# What you don't want to know but should...



## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

This one I know, at least 3 of the 4. dead, dying, diseased, and d.......???

Can't remember the last one. 

I remember hearing about this from another board and it was mentioned how animals that are put to sleep by vets are processed for pet food and that they have found levels of the chemicals used to euthanise in the pet food.

This is the fact that stood out for me, along with the processing of roadkill and livestock found dead in the field etc.

Can't remember the fourth D though. Damaged? I don't think so.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

timberwolfe said:


> This one I know, at least 3 of the 4. dead, dying, diseased, and d.......???
> 
> Can't remember the last one...


Close but you get no banana:banana: just yet.
d.......??? just isn't close enough...

However your comments are 'dead on' and there are even more scary possibilities of what's in some pet foods...


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## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

Geez I had better start guessing d words.

debilitated
decrepid
distressed 
deformed
disabled
defective
dog gone tired

OK, I done for. :doh:


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## LauraEyes2 (Sep 16, 2005)

destroyed?


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Okay, timberwolfe, you finally got it... disabled.

The 4 Ds stand for Dead, Diseased, Dying, Disabled...

A quote: "Rendering is a cheap viable means of disposal for euthanized pets. Pets are mixed with other material from slaughterhouse facilities that have been condemned for human consumption, such as rotten meat from supermarket shelves, restaurant grease and garbage, 4-D animals, roadkill, and even zoo animals." 

Hard to believe isn't it? This woman is a hero to pets... she was an ordinary woman who loved her pets and when they got sick from eating kibble, she started asking some important questions about what goes into commercial kibble and after 7 years of investigation came up with some startling revelations and published her findings in a book back in 1997 entitled: Food Pets Die For

Her book triggered other investigations by goverment agencies which in turn forced the pet food industry to make massive changes in they way they do things. Think there's no difference between what goes into a cheap kibble verses a more expense one? Think again, how is it possible to sell a 50-lb bag of dog food for $10 and still have everyone making a profit? ..."4-D"

Oh and if you doubt the dead zoo animal connection to rendering plants... rent the documentary movie "Gates of Heaven" and listen to the rendering plant owner laugh about sneaking in elephants and such into his plant and then having to lie to concerned zoo goers about it.


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## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

This is actually an interesting topic and would make for a good conversation.

So it was disabled huh. I didn't think I found the right word. None of them sounded right. Dead, dying and dieased made sense and wre easy to remember. When I think animals disabled doesn't come to mind. 

You will have to give me a bit to come up with another question.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Disabled... Yeah, I guess farmers don't want to have to feed animals that can't earn their keep, so they get sold to the rendering man who sells his product to the pet food industry as a cheap source of protein. That's not as scary as Diseased and Dying since we now know about prions... these cannot be destroyed by heat... (for example prions are responsible for mad-cow disease... that's why its now illegal to 'recycle' dead/dying cows back into cow feed... that's how mad-cow disease spreads to more cows! Okay, now think about 'recycling' dead pets by adding it to pet food as a cheap protein source... are you scared yet?) Don't believe me? just Google "prion" and read what you find on the subject...


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## Joe (Apr 9, 2005)

This topic caused some controversy... I was asked by some members to remove this topic.
What everyone else thinks?
Joe


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Sure Joe if you feel it's a problem... take it away. But remember the issue itself will not disappear because we close our eyes.

EDIT: I do sincerely apologize to anyone would was offended by the discussion but it's a reality... albeit an ugly one. I'm more use to being on forums where controvery is not considered a bad thing. But I really do understand the difference in membership on this forum. And again, I do apologize, I will know better next time.


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## shaneamber (Apr 20, 2005)

Monomer,I feel Quiz Master is supposed to be for fun,this topic is not too much fun.It should be removed.
Shane


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## LauraEyes2 (Sep 16, 2005)

Sooooo... how bout those mets?


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## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

My opinion, this is a valid topic and maybe should be moved to a more formal thread, but I don't think it should be deleted.

Are people upset because it is in the fun forum or because of the topic itself? Because people should be aware of what goes on out there and censoring topics is not a solution, but while I am not personally bothered, I could see why it might not belong in the quiz thread.


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## LauraEyes2 (Sep 16, 2005)

I think people are overreacting and deviating the attention of this board away from what it is intended to be. If you want to further discuss this thread, I think people can be more than welcome to discuss this in other boards.

I believe the intent of this board is to have fun quizzes, on whatever topics may exist. End of story. If you want to get into moral discussions on the topic, I think they would be much more welcomed elsewhere. I personally don't care, for the most part I am not bothered by this stuff, but it gets annoying when people keep fighting for a useless cause. Let's end this thread, and just keep it posted. There's no need to keep griping about it. Get over it and move on.


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## jim n (Nov 12, 2005)

No Joe, absolutely do not remove it. This is the kind of information people need when choosing a dog (pet) food.


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## Goldensforever (May 26, 2005)

jim n said:


> No Joe, absolutely do not remove it. This is the kind of information people need when choosing a dog (pet) food.


Please do not remove, people need to be aware.


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## Joe (Apr 9, 2005)

Monomer, Shane and others...

There'll be no censoring on this forum! Period.
For those who agree - good, for those who do not, please accept it.

I really don't feel like doing it, let me explain:
I gave this some thought and I realized that censoring or restricting information or opinions is not the way to go. I guess you would agree that we all listen to all kinds of different opinions in our everyday's life. 
Same as everyone has a different taste, it's normal that we cannot agree on many issues... 
Rather than fighting and pushing our own opinions to the front, and deleting someone elses, we should be respecting and tolerating them, willing to hear new ideas, and even be prepared to change our own of needed. 
I am not talking about this particular topic, but generally.

Maybe if situation needed it or there was some overwhelming request from majority of our users, maybe then I would agree with locking the thread.
Possibly even removing it, if the opinion was breaking the law or could cause some visible harm. 
Otherwise, no big deal with this topic. It's someone's opinion, if you don't like it skip it. If everyone skips it and no one answers to it, it means that user is alone in his view and that would be the end of the story for such thread.

So, please accept my view in not closing/locking or deleting this topic.

To maybe end this, I would say: every one of you should be little more careful on what we post because while some of us can withstand any topic/post or opinion, others might be more sensitive and would not.

Joe


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## shaneamber (Apr 20, 2005)

Joe,I have avoided saying much about that post in public,but since you addressed me,I felt I had to respond.
My main objection was where that was posted. It should have been posted in a different section of the forum.If it had,I might have enjoyed reading everyone's comments.
As I have said elsewhere on this forum,I may not agree with what has been said,but I respect and would defend that persons right to say it.
The category that the quiz master forum is in is called "Just for Fun" and should be used for that.
Everyone here is welcome to speak about what they want,but they should use the correct areas to do it and remember that this is a family oriented forum
That posting should be moved to Nutrition, Feeding & Recipes or even Chit Chat.
Shane


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## Joe (Apr 9, 2005)

All admins agreed on moving this topic to more appropriate location.
I am moving this topic to: Nutrition, Feeding & Recipes
Joe


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## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

Sounds fair to me.


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## lvngold (Jun 1, 2005)

*Thanks*

Good decision and thanks for all you do.

Julie


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

The following was originally conceived as a PM to Joe. Since I sent him a quick little PM yesterday evening saying I would give him my feelings on the matter after I finished work and then I didn't, I just wrote him what's quoted below... then I got to thinking, why not just post it to the forum... thus...

Yeah, Joe good call. Lately I've been so swamped by my work, I was too drained when I got home from work last night to do much more than a little 15-minute 'Internet cruise' and then off to bed... up early and I'm at it again. However this is now my lunchtime and I thought I'd send you a little PM now. I got to tell you, I knew the subject matter would bother some people which was why I prefaced it and entitled the thread as a warning. I've always been one who will 'test' boundaries from time-to-time, its part of who I am. In my job I often spend 30-minutes of lab time discussing with my students current events, trying to pique their interested in the 'larger picture' and so I chose controversial topics and I will intentionally take unusual viewpoints to spark some critical thinking on their parts. I also emphasize diversity of thought as well as a tolerance for other's viewpoints. This then mirrors my own views and values but I realize the majority of the population in general do not see things this way... I have members of my own family who do not like to see anything ugly or have to think about anything unpleasant... and though I do not believe this is a very healthy mind set, I do understand it and I can tolerate the idea that other people think differently from me.

On several pet food forums, Ann Martin is well known and her book is considered almost required reading... it is a celebration of triumph over the uncovering of some of the deepest secrets of the pet food industry. This one book alone created the demand for pet food from small up-start boutique pet food companies that use only "human grade" and USDA-inspected ingredients... this in turn forced the giant food companies who own all the large pet food manufacturers to like-wise introduce 'up-scale' pet foods/kibble that use premium ingredients. Shouldn't everyone be aware of this? Wouldn't most dog owners want to know? This was my thinking when choosing this topic as the basis for a Quiz. I guess I was wrong... well only partially, according to all the various comments posted.

I also realize that this forum represents a business venture for you. I actually thought about starting up my own forum last spring and researched it. Though the expense for me would not have been much at all, the investment of my time would have been enormous and thus costly from that standpoint... so I 'nix' the idea. However in an effort to 'grow' a successful forum you need a stable, loyal core of participants with interesting things to say... AND you also then need a steady supply of 'lurkers' (i.e. an audience) who like to visit often... this is where it gets tricky because a forum's policy has a direct bearing on this population. I personnally would choose diversity and allow some controversy even if that means continuously reminding people to exercise some tolerance... but this is your forum and so YOU MUST set the policies. These are tough decisions to make and so I won't even try to second guess anything you choose to do. Good Luck!


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## Joe (Apr 9, 2005)

Monomer, thanks for taking time to write this post. End of it was especially interesting to me and when I came across this controversy, I was looking at it from the same point of view as you. And eventually decided, and here I quote you:
*I personally would choose diversity and allow some controversy even if that means continuously reminding people to exercise some tolerance.*
This is so perfectly said, that I would have presented my own opinion any better.
Thanks.
Joe


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## jim n (Nov 12, 2005)

I still don't understand how anything in this topic could offend anyone. How can someone be offended when someone is trying to help them? As a whole I think this country is becoming a bunch of thin skinned crybabies.


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## shaneamber (Apr 20, 2005)

Jim n,I think if you look back that you will see the main objections were about where it was posted.At least that's how I felt for the most part.
And that's the last I will say on this thread.
Shane


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## Goldensforever (May 26, 2005)

I totally agree with you Jim N. The information was really informative. Sandy


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