# I feel I'm in over my head



## terra-pin (Dec 18, 2012)

I brought home an 8 week old golden male last week. He is my third golden, so I've been through this before. I love dogs, and consider my first 2 Goldens to be 2 of the best decisions I ever made. 

This new pup, however, is driving my over the edge. I started crate training, but my daughter while visiting unilaterally decided it would be cute to take him out of the crate at night to let him sleep in bed. Now he screams bloody murder in the crate. Both my wife and I work. I had planned to take him to work with me during the day and crate him, but now I don't see that as a possibility because he won't stop crying in the crate. (I brought my last senior golden to work, and everyone loved him. God I miss him.)

I know I need a dog. But I don't know what to do with this particular puppy. We show him affection, exercise him, started training. Everything I did with my first two dogs. 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. How do I reinstitute crate training? What are my options? Heck, I'd settle for words of encouragement. 

Sincerely,

A very tired, sleep deprived early 50s year old.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Bring crate into your bedroom for bedtime. 

Make it a comfortable place for him - big crate, bedding, toys, etc... but be firm and put him in his crate when it is bedtime - preferably a little while before lights are out so he can see that you and your wife are there and it's bedtime.

Have second crate for your kitchen or living room - wherever you spend the most time when you are home. Put pup in his crate and give him chews to keep him occupied if he's not sleepy. Get him used to going into the crate when it's "quiet time" and you are not directly interacting with him. 

Just be matter of fact and steady while putting pup in the crate. Be patient - if pup has never been crated or penned by the breeder, you are basically doing all that work yourself. It takes a couple days for the pups to figure out that crates are their own space.


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## ChrisMc (Jul 3, 2021)

Hello! Congrats on your new pup  I'm sure you'll get through this stage, don't worry!
Have you managed to take any time off work to adjust the pup to the crate? My pup did NOT like the crate originally, and we had to slowly build it up. Where is the crate at night? We needed to sleep next to the crate for a while and slowly spent less time sleeping next to it, ie the whole night, then half the night, then a few hours of the night. We also set alarms to let the pup out so the pup didn't wake up alone and start crying. But each time we let the pup out we did need to sit with her a while. We introduced "ah ah" as a general "no" command, so we would sit beside the crate but out of view and say ah ah when she cried, so she knew we were close but didn't have to see us at all times.

We also did let her cry it out during the day in the crate and that worked for us but some people don't like this. We would only do this for 15-20 mins at a time, once she stopped crying we'd let her out and praise. She soon stopped crying and was happy in the crate with a stuffed kong.
Our pup now won't go in the crate by choice as she prefers to be near to us if we're in the room, but she is extremely happy in there if we need to leave her alone in the house and prefers it to being left out of the crate alone. 

Your pup will be very different to your well trained senior dog, so expect very different behaviour when it comes to work and crating etc. I'm sure you know this all as you're seasoned owners already, but just some advice and encouragement in case it helps!


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## terra-pin (Dec 18, 2012)

The crate is in our bedroom, next to bed. We have made the crate comfortable for him, placed toys and chewy nylon bones in crate. Encouraging words when we put him in. Even tried giving him a treat. Also, there is a playpen on the main floor for daytime. So I think we are already set up. This puppy is being walked at least once an hour. 

The breeder started him on crate training. It was going well at first. However, since my daughter's decision to let him sleep in bed, we are going in reverse. Daytime is especially difficult. He demands constant attention by barking and crying. I've tried leaving him alone and not giving in. He's relentless. Half and hour, still howling and whining. I've taken time off work to bond. I have to go back to work Monday. He can't come with me because he will be too much of a distraction. 

I need a plan of action by Monday. The only one I currently have is to leave him at home and pay for a dog walker to come by twice during the day, and to come home early from work.


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## kikis_retrieving_service (Mar 29, 2021)

Congrats on your new pup!!

We did crate games with our puppy to try get her loving her crate. Susan Garrett's seems to come highly recommended but we just looked on YouTube and picked a few that we thought would be fun and encouraging for our pup. We also gave her special toys (snuggle puppy) and treats (pumpkin and yoghurt kong) that she only ever got in the crate. We did also start her out right next to our bed which helped. At about 8 months, ours will go in quietly now if we have to go out for a bit, but only sometimes goes in for naps during the day - she prefers one of her many beds. At night though when she gets tired, she sits and looks at us in a very specific way and we know she wants to be "tucked in" to her crate with snuggle puppy 😂.

Good luck with your puppy! Hope you manage to work it out with him.


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

Puppies are hard. Its understandable and everyone naturally does it but try not to compare this dog to previous dogs. It is easy to forget the puppy stage of a former dog and focus on the great older dog that you no longer have and still miss. I would do a whole flurry of activity with him until he is exhausted then crate him with a chew bone or something and then ignore the crying until he sleeps. Repeat in the evening, keeping him awake and playing, running around and practicing commands like sit and down until your bedtime so he's just too exhausted to fight sleep. I understand you're in a bind come Monday and I really don't know what you should do about that. I guess he's too young for doggy daycare. Any homeschooling neighbors or nearby family that could help for a couple weeks? You will get past this soon. They change so quickly and his little life has been totally upended.








Kidnapped From Planet Dog - Whole Dog Journal


Sometimes new owners tell me getting a puppy was supposed to be fun, but all I feel is stress. Here's what new owners need to remember.




www.whole-dog-journal.com


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

terra-pin said:


> I brought home an 8 week old golden male last week.


It has only been one week? Stop overthinking, your daughter did not cause irreparable harm. Young puppies progress rapidly and this one has just begun to test you. Let her cry when she is just being demanding, she will give up if she learns it won't work. If you listen and watch you will soon be able to tell when she needs out vs when she wants out.
Let her get plenty of exercise, take her for walks where she can explore new things (which is everything). Start basic obedience, mental exercise is every bit as important as physical. 
Remember that you are always teaching and training if the pup is awake.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Your daughter really screwed you up. Now the puppy has his own ideas. And to make matters worse, I'll bet you've been giving in when he screams.

I've dealt with this a million times. There is only one way to do it, and that's to leave the puppy in the crate _without paying any attention whatsoever to the puppy_ for as long as it takes. _Do not _reward the caterwauling by giving the puppy attention or letting him out of his crate. All that does is reinforce the notion that if he screams loud and long enough he'll get what he wants. Just deal with the noise and don't feel guilty. They are experts at making you feel sorry for them. Don't fall for it. This is not the time to be nice. This is the time to be completely resolute and to never, ever give-in.

Eventually, he'll give up, and you'll have a nicely crate trained puppy. If it's any consolation, when it's at its worst and you absolutely can't stand it, that's when you're almost home fee. It's called an "extinction surge," and it's the phenomenon when the puppy is making a last ditch effort to continue the bad behavior he does it more and worse in a desperate attempt to get what he wants. That's when most people give-in. But if you don't, that's when you'll succeed. He can't keep up that desperation forever, and when he gives up and accepts that he's going to be in the crate no matter what, he'll settle down and eventually actually enjoy his crate.

My current puppy did it. My gawd, you'd have thought we were sawing her in half, the horrible noises she made! And one night she just went for it so hard we were afraid she was going to hurt herself. But we continued to ignore her, and then she gave up. Her next plan was to avoid going into the crate altogether. Well, we started feeding her in it, and at night would throw a couple dog treats to get her to go inside, and that took care of that. Now she actually likes her crate. But our compromise is that she still gets two dog biscuits when she goes in for the night. And she's happy as a clam.

Remember, as much as it doesn't seem like it sometimes, _you are smarter than the puppy! _You just have to be tough. They are not children, and you can't treat them like children. You have to treat them the way their mothers would, and their mothers would ignore them.

You. Can. Do. It.


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## Anon-2130948gsoni (Apr 12, 2014)

You’re not in over your head, you just have a puppy. And a Golden puppy at that! And a boy puppy at that!

I had had four other puppies over the years before Griffey came home, although none of them were Goldens. I thought I knew stuff. I thought I was READY.

_I was not ready. _He was a gorgeous, single-minded, giant stinker from the first and I was hanging on for dear life. He wanted what he wanted when he wanted it and was remarkably vocal about saying so! I was fortunate that my other three dogs were as good with him as they were, although I’m pretty sure they were drawing straws long about month four as to which one got to clobber him.

We got through it and so will you! Give yourself and him a lot of slack in your expectations. Griffey was a stone idiot about things like, oh, being housetrained, but he was freakishly brilliant in training classes. I’d stare at him like, “who are you and where did you come from?” We were those people in class that everyone hated and then we’d come home from class, fresh from emptying him (theoretically) in the yard and he‘d pee a lake five feet inside the front door. And he was NOT having crates, had separation anxiety, and once his teeth started coming in he pretty much gave up sleeping at night. For weeks and weeks. I was a wreck.

I adore this boy today and some day, when you and your boy are in synch and his brain develops all the incredible potential that Goldens have, you will marvel at how far you’ve come.

Hang in there!


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## JulieCAinMA (Jun 19, 2020)

Congratulations on your new puppy! 
Before I picked up now 8-month old Archie, I read something that really stuck with me, “a dog will always do what works”. So if barking, whining, even howling means you will take him out of his crate that’s what he’ll do because it works! In my mind it’s kind of like when kids are little and the parent has to make a decision that though unpopular is really in the best interest of the child.This line of thought transfers right over to puppy raising!. Stay the course and keep doing what you know is right for your puppy, especially since it means the difference between having him home alone, or being able to bring him to work! Also, it helps if all the family members are on the same page with training. Though I’m sure your young daughter enjoyed snuggling with the puppy, she didn’t realize that it was really to his detriment.


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## Dunmar (Apr 15, 2020)

My girl always thinks of crate =treat. Even close to 2 years old. When she's small she got a couple pieces of kibble in her kong or a puppy treat every time she went in. 
She still does. She doesn't enjoy being in her crate during the day when I'm home, but at her age now, she doesn't need to be in it at those times. She wouldn't need to be in it at all except she had one of those loofah dogs as a puppy and the carpet reminds her of that and once in a great while she will tug atthe carpet. 
When we are gone she is most comfortable in her crate and at night she goes in there about half the time because she is a bed hog.

She still gets a treat each time, even a small one to keep it a happy place


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## terra-pin (Dec 18, 2012)

Thanks to all. We had a good evening. The wife and I really tired him out with walks and chasing a ball. We will see how long that lasts. My thought is if he wakes us up once in middle of the night, I will take him out. The second time, he's on his own, i.e., I'm going to a different bedroom. If anyone thinks that is a bad idea, please let me know. 

He is a sweet boy, but I can tell he is constantly testing us. Fortunately, I'm stubborn too. Unfortunately, I'm growing shorter on patience as I get older.


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## CookiewillalwaysloveChase (Oct 29, 2021)

terra-pin said:


> I brought home an 8 week old golden male last week. He is my third golden, so I've been through this before. I love dogs, and consider my first 2 Goldens to be 2 of the best decisions I ever made.
> 
> This new pup, however, is driving my over the edge. I started crate training, but my daughter while visiting unilaterally decided it would be cute to take him out of the crate at night to let him sleep in bed. Now he screams bloody murder in the crate. Both my wife and I work. I had planned to take him to work with me during the day and crate him, but now I don't see that as a possibility because he won't stop crying in the crate. (I brought my last senior golden to work, and everyone loved him. God I miss him.)
> 
> ...


Ugh, I feel for you! I remember when our last golden was a puppy he would do the same. In fact, he never liked the crate at all. But our breeder said to take something metal like a pie tin or metal pan/can and bang the sides of the crate as loud as you can while screaming NO! She said that she knows it sounds mean, but you need to let them know that you are boss and it’s not acceptable. So we tried it, it did work for awhile but then he started to lick himself and create hotspots, etc. which was another problem. So we ended up gating him off (baby gate) in our mud room/laundry room with a dog bed. This is all it took. He just wasn’t a crate dog. We had no more issues and he slept in his dog bed for the rest of his life. He just passed 2 weeks ago. We miss him greatly. 😢 Good luck and feel blessed to have him, finding a puppy now is impossible. This too, shall pass 💕


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

CookiewillalwaysloveChase said:


> Ugh, I feel for you! I remember when our last golden was a puppy he would do the same. In fact, he never liked the crate at all. But our breeder said to take something metal like a pie tin or metal pan/can and bang the sides of the crate as loud as you can while screaming NO! She said that she knows it sounds mean, but you need to let them know that you are boss and it’s not acceptable. So we tried it, it did work for awhile but then he started to lick himself and create hotspots, etc. which was another problem. So we ended up gating him off (baby gate) in our mud room/laundry room with a dog bed. This is all it took. He just wasn’t a crate dog. We had no more issues and he slept in his dog bed for the rest of his life. He just passed 2 weeks ago. We miss him greatly. 😢 Good luck and feel blessed to have him, finding a puppy now is impossible. This too, shall pass 💕


Its hard to imagine a breeder giving such bad advice. Screaming no at an 8 week old puppy means nothing except the human is out of control which just causes more anxiety. Screaming no over any circumstances does not teach a puppy what it should be doing instead of the wrong behavior.


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## CookiewillalwaysloveChase (Oct 29, 2021)

cwag said:


> Its hard to imagine a breeder giving such bad advice. Screaming no at an 8 week old puppy means nothing except the human is out of control which just causes more anxiety. Screaming no over any circumstances does not teach a puppy what it should be doing instead of the wrong behavior.


As with any advice, do what you feel is best for your dog


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## terra-pin (Dec 18, 2012)

CookiewillalwaysloveChase said:


> Ugh, I feel for you! I remember when our last golden was a puppy he would do the same. In fact, he never liked the crate at all. But our breeder said to take something metal like a pie tin or metal pan/can and bang the sides of the crate as loud as you can while screaming NO! She said that she knows it sounds mean, but you need to let them know that you are boss and it’s not acceptable. So we tried it, it did work for awhile but then he started to lick himself and create hotspots, etc. which was another problem. So we ended up gating him off (baby gate) in our mud room/laundry room with a dog bed. This is all it took. He just wasn’t a crate dog. We had no more issues and he slept in his dog bed for the rest of his life. He just passed 2 weeks ago. We miss him greatly. 😢 Good luck and feel blessed to have him, finding a puppy now is impossible. This too, shall pass 💕


I have found that different breeders will give different advice that often conflicts between breeders. I'm going to forego the banging idea, but thank you for your kind words and advice. With my first two dogs, they likewise "graduated" from their crates to a single room (the kitchen, we don't have a mud room) as they got closer to 6 months.

I am very sorry for your loss. You are right about the difficulty in finding a puppy. I got lucky (and was persistent too), and fortuitously found a breeder who had someone on her waiting list defer at the last second. Even with a new pup, we still miss our boy and think of him constantly.


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## CookiewillalwaysloveChase (Oct 29, 2021)

terra-pin said:


> I have found that different breeders will give different advice that often conflicts between breeders. I'm going to forego the banging idea, but thank you for your kind words and advice. With my first two dogs, they likewise "graduated" from their crates to a single room (the kitchen, we don't have a mud room) as they got closer to 6 months.
> 
> I am very sorry for your loss. You are right about the difficulty in finding a puppy. I got lucky (and was persistent too), and fortuitously found a breeder who had someone on her waiting list defer at the last second. Even with a new pup, we still miss our boy and think of him constantly.


I’m a big believer in knowing your dog and what works for them. I cringed when she said to bang on the crate too. I only tried it once after I was so exhausted I couldn’t stand it anymore. Eventually, I gave up on the crate and gated him. It was the right choice for him. Hang in there, I am sure he will calm down!


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## Anon-2130948gsoni (Apr 12, 2014)

Tethering him in your bedroom might be another option, as long as you’re not super heavy sleepers and one of you is always in the room. Griffey wasn’t having a crate, nope, not at all, even as I kept sizing up…he‘d get in fine and not even say much, but he’d thrash around all night, even in the Great Dane size. Nobody was sleeping. NOBODY. Metal was bad, plastic was worse.

So I finally tried tethering him near his dog bed in our room with the leash connected to the back of a harness so it wasn’t around his neck. We never left him alone like that, to be clear, but it worked. He’d sprawl out on his bed and sleep like a champ. I think he was just claustrophobic.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

You’ve gotten some god advice so far. Hopefully these blog posts will also help.








Episode 70: Critical Info for Your Puppy’s First Day and Night at Home


Your guide to the first 24 hours with a new puppy, what you need, and what to do and what to avoid.




dogsthat.com












Episode 26: Pro Dog Training Tips to Get Your Puppy to Sleep All Night


How to get your puppy to stop waking you up at night or your dog getting you up earlier and earlier.




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Episode 98: Puppy Home Alone: Are You Creating Chaos or Calm?


Separation anxiety prevention for puppies and how to help dogs feel comfortable and relaxed alone.




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## Piper_the_goldenpuppy (Aug 26, 2016)

Sounds like your puppy trained your daughter well ! Puppies are hard. Fear not, no permanent damage was done--I did this with Piper (at night at least) but for a longer period of time and later in puppyhood, and we got through it.

I thought I would get evicted or that someone would call animal wellfare. She was fine if I was leaving but at night--it was awful. I almost stopped, but then ended up putting her crate in another room with a baby monitor. The first day she cried intermittently for 45, the 2nd for 30, and a day or two for 10ish and then the behavior totally extinguished itself. And only the first day was it the "YOU'RE TORTURING ME" fury barking I was getting before. It felt like a year but actually was only 2weeks all told I think(I really tried to make it work with the crate in my room). I thought I had progressed to totally ignoring her when she was in the room with me--I'm actually good at ignoring puppies--but clearly whatever I was doing (signing unconsciously, turning over, just being awake and flinching, she was picking up on and interpreting as attention and reinforcement. I think our puppies are more observant than we think and interpret a lot of things as attention and reinforcement. She had trained me well too.

I've found the day-time crating with people around to be a different skill for the puppy to learn, because its easy for the puppy to recognize their human sleeping and identify the crate as a time they should be sleeping. But when people are active, the puppy wants to be part of the action. What I found helpful was to pay attention and reinforce ANY time the dog was quiet for even the briefest amount of time. I was waiting and ready the second she was with treats and praise and free time and playing to help her succeed.

Your puppy might not be ready to go to work yet. Things might go well at home, but work might be too stimulating. Or, its too much to do while working, which is totally ok! Or, the first couple of days might be hard and then it's fine. You'll get there eventually though!

You're doing a great job. It will get better. Everything you are going through and feeling is normal.

Puppies don't have much personality when they are little--the bones are there but thats about it-- and that can be jarring after you have had so much time to bond with (and then lose) a loved Golden. A huge part of you feels like nothing will ever fill that "insert prior dog/dogs name here" shaped hole in your heart and you aren't sure if you'll ever be ready, but eventually the hope wins you over because they are amazing creatures so you give it another go. When a 50% fluffy sweetness, 50% tyrannical little beast with whom you have no emotional bond and yet have so much hope enters your life, and fills you simultaneously feelings of joy, rememberance, and a feeling of wanting to tear your hair out, its normal to feel some cognitive dissonance. Just remember, puppies know very little about being dogs and less about the world. .


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

We too brought home a very challenging male pup BUT it is dawning on us that HE is the “normal” pup and our senior Golden (now 11) is an old soul who was wise beyond his years from the word “go.” Comparing dogs is like comparing children. 
You mentioned some of the things that you put in his crate- here are some other suggestions that may keep him occupied longer: freeze wet food in his Kong, wrap some kibble in a damp cotton washcloth or teatowel (something that would not be harmful if he chewed it) and twist it and freeze it. A “wobble kong” distributes kibble through a small hole on the side. I leave the radio or TV on as well. With our current pup, we are practicing short crate stays ( 15 minutes) with ger ones of up to an hour and a half. He must be quiet and relaxed before he gets out and then he gets a treat and a big cuddle and a “yes!” 
I may have misunderstood, but if your pup is only 9 weeks old- he’s very young to be left in a crate for very long. With our senior dog was a pup, when I went back to work, I had to come home every day at noon to let him out and make sure he had a drink- he was nearly 6 months.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

sevans said:


> wrap some kibble in a damp cotton washcloth or teatowel (something that would not be harmful if he chewed it) and twist it and freeze it.


Not a good idea, some dogs would eat the towel.


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

SRW said:


> Not a good idea, some dogs would eat the towel.


Yes, some dogs could- but a 9 week old pup- unlikely-same could be said for literally anything in a crate- that’s why you choose something that is chew safe AND this is for training purposes. Trainers have done this for years.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

sevans said:


> Yes, some dogs could- but a 9 week old pup- unlikely


You think it is unlikely that a puppy would eat a wet cotton towel infused with food? Seems like a way to train a dog to eat a towel to me.


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

I don’t want to get into an argument. It isn’t “Infused” - it has dry kibbles wrapped i it, It is for training purposes only- for short periods of time, suggested by my vet and two professional trainers. I have done it with three of my dogs- no problems - not chewers. Technically, nothing should be in a crate with a dog while unattended.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

sevans said:


> It is for training purposes only


Training what?


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

For crate training- which is what the post was about in the first place. It is a prosess.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

sevans said:


> For crate training- which is what the post was about in the first place. It is a prosess.


Crate training a puppy is not a process, not even an event unless you chose to make it one. It is certainly not training. Put puppy in crate, ignore, repeat as necessary, end of story.
This works every time it is tried. Of course that's free advice which means I'm not a "Professional Trainer" so what do I know.


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

SRW said:


> Crate training a puppy is not a process, not even an event unless you chose to make it one. It is certainly not training. Put puppy in crate, ignore, repeat as necessary, end of story.
> This works every time it is tried. Of course that's free advice which means I'm not a "Professional Trainer" so what do I know.


I don’t know why you are looking for an argument- you are welcome to your opinion though I do not think that you would find many people who support your position. Interesting that you choose to use the term “_crate training_” but then dismiss that it is a training process. Crate training is just that- a process which begins with an open door crate with the freedom to enter and to leave, containing a toy or treats for encouragement, leading to closing and opening the door teaching a word such as “crate” or “bed” (and not responding to whining but rewarding calm acceptance) then- short supervised periods with door closed, short closed-door unsupervised periods (with boredom diffusing treats or safe toys). The crate should, over time, become a safe “go to place” where the puppy, and eventually, the dog feels safe and where it is comfortable without being supervised. What you suggest is not “crate training” it is *caging* and can lead to injury and separation anxiety. You are correct, you are not a “professional trainer” neither, am I, but I have the good sense to listen to them and have trained my dogs to CDX. There are dozens of books, articles and help pages on “crate training” and none of them suggest tossing a puppy “in crate, ignore, repeat.” I will not be baited into more discussion of this point, This forum should be a positive place where people can seek and share information without inciting arguing. As I said, you are more welcome to your opinions.


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## Jmcarp83 (May 4, 2018)

They either like it. Or they hate it. I have full siblings from two different litters. Dog 1 loved her crate. Put herself to bed. Still goes in it to sleep. Dog 2 was coaxed/placed in crate. And she WAILED. And when the sun came up she was up. And let you know it. She still goes into crate when no one is home because she gets herself into expedition hunting and will pull toilet paper off roll. Or investigate stuff. So for her safety, she’s crated.


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## Anon-2130948gsoni (Apr 12, 2014)

cwag said:


> Puppies are hard. Its understandable and everyone naturally does it but try not to compare this dog to previous dogs. It is easy to forget the puppy stage of a former dog and focus on the great older dog that you no longer have and still miss. I would do a whole flurry of activity with him until he is exhausted then crate him with a chew bone or something and then ignore the crying until he sleeps. Repeat in the evening, keeping him awake and playing, running around and practicing commands like sit and down until your bedtime so he's just too exhausted to fight sleep. I understand you're in a bind come Monday and I really don't know what you should do about that. I guess he's too young for doggy daycare. Any homeschooling neighbors or nearby family that could help for a couple weeks? You will get past this soon. They change so quickly and his little life has been totally upended.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


CWAG, this is a wonderful article, thank you for posting it. I am not sure where the adversarial nonsense about ”the puppy is testing your authority!!!”came from, although I suspect Cesar Milan had a great deal to do with it. But puppies are another species…they don’t speak the language and nearly everything they do instinctively—bark, chew, pee, play bite—is something we humans view with horror. It’s really a wonder how well it works out as often as it does and honestly I give the dogs more credit for that than us humans.
I have bookmarked this for the next time I have a new puppy and I hope many people here will do the same.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

sevans said:


> I don’t know why you are looking for an argument- you are welcome to your opinion though I do not think that you would find many people who support your position. Interesting that you choose to use the term “_crate training_” but then dismiss that it is a training process. Crate training is just that- a process which begins with an open door crate with the freedom to enter and to leave, containing a toy or treats for encouragement, leading to closing and opening the door teaching a word such as “crate” or “bed” (and not responding to whining but rewarding calm acceptance) then- short supervised periods with door closed, short closed-door unsupervised periods (with boredom diffusing treats or safe toys). The crate should, over time, become a safe “go to place” where the puppy, and eventually, the dog feels safe and where it is comfortable without being supervised. What you suggest is not “crate training” it is *caging* and can lead to injury and separation anxiety. You are correct, you are not a “professional trainer” neither, am I, but I have the good sense to listen to them and have trained my dogs to CDX. There are dozens of books, articles and help pages on “crate training” and none of them suggest tossing a puppy “in crate, ignore, repeat.” I will not be baited into more discussion of this point, This forum should be a positive place where people can seek and share information without inciting arguing. As I said, you are more welcome to your opinions.


i have no interest in arguing about "crate training" which you mentioned here:


sevans said:


> For crate training- which is what the post was about in the first place. It is a prosess.


YOU added "tossing a puppy into a crate", nobody suggests tossing a puppy into a crate or anywhere else.
A great many people do suggest ignoring a puppy when it barks and cries to get what it wants. Here are a few of them you must have missed on this thread. Good advice from all.


cwag said:


> I would do a whole flurry of activity with him until he is exhausted then crate him with a chew bone or something and then ignore the crying until he sleeps. Repeat in the evening, keeping him awake and playing, running around and practicing commands like sit and down until your bedtime so he's just too exhausted to fight sleep.





DanaRuns said:


> I've dealt with this a million times. There is only one way to do it, and that's to leave the puppy in the crate _without paying any attention whatsoever to the puppy_ for as long as it takes. _Do not _reward the caterwauling by giving the puppy attention or letting him out of his crate. All that does is reinforce the notion that if he screams loud and long enough he'll get what he wants. Just deal with the noise and don't feel guilty. They are experts at making you feel sorry for them. Don't fall for it. This is not the time to be nice. This is the time to be completely resolute and to never, ever give-in.





JulieCA said:


> Before I picked up now 8-month old Archie, I read something that really stuck with me, “a dog will always do what works”. So if barking, whining, even howling means you will take him out of his crate that’s what he’ll do because it works! In my mind it’s kind of like when kids are little and the parent has to make a decision that though unpopular is really in the best interest of the child.This line of thought transfers right over to puppy raising!.





Piper_the_goldenpuppy said:


> I thought I would get evicted or that someone would call animal wellfare. She was fine if I was leaving but at night--it was awful. I almost stopped, but then ended up putting her crate in another room with a baby monitor. The first day she cried intermittently for 45, the 2nd for 30, and a day or two for 10ish and then the behavior totally extinguished itself. And only the first day was it the "YOU'RE TORTURING ME" fury barking I was getting before. It felt like a year but actually was only 2weeks all told I think(I really tried to make it work with the crate in my room). I thought I had progressed to totally ignoring her when she was in the room with me--I'm actually good at ignoring puppies--but clearly whatever I was doing (signing unconsciously, turning over, just being awake and flinching, she was picking up on and interpreting as attention and reinforcement. I think our puppies are more observant than we think and interpret a lot of things as attention and reinforcement. She had trained me well too.


I am passionate about retrievers. Training for field trials, hunting over them, learning different methods that work for other handlers and different dogs, helping training group friends and learning from them as well. My wife would tell you it is an obsession. When I post advice on this forum it is the best that I can offer and comes from personal experience and lessons learned from trainers that have mentored me.

It is never my intent to offend. When I see advice posted that is bad for the breed, ineffective or detrimental to training or anything potentially harmful to a dog, I will state my opinion on it, usually quite bluntly. People generally recover from the hurt feelings I inadvertently cause. 

Wrapping kibble in wet cloth, freezing it and giving it to a puppy is bad and potentially harmful advice. I have had 8 to 12 week old puppies that could chew a seat belt in half in a matter of minutes. Swallowing a piece of cloth can and has killed puppies. It is sad that a "professional trainer" would suggest it.

I understand that many "pros" make a big issue out of "crate training". The reason is money.

If a puppy gets the daily physical and mental exercise needed they will sleep soundly and enjoy their time in the crate. Mine do, hopefully dreaming about being the greatest dog ever, something I try to convince them of every day.

FYI; the qualifications for being a "Professional Dog Trainer" are call yourself a professional and get at least one person to pay for training.
Sadly, for every good pro trainer there a dozens of bad ones.

Feel free to put me on ignore if you wish to avoid future incitement.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

I just put mine in the crate gently as puppies, making it a pleasant place for them to be -- in the room with me. My first Golden Retriever puppy, Luke, howled like a wolf in his crate the first night. I took him out at regular intervals and, other than that, ignored him. On the second night, he was good to go and slept well from that day forward. 

With Logan (current Golden) I did the same. He wasn't a howler -- he just let me know when he needed to go out. Same thing happened with him -- from second night onward he slept through the night.

I played with them and kept them busy during the day.

I spent some time teaching them to go to their crate on command as they got a little bit older -- and it all worked out.

If I was meeting a dog's physical needs, I wouldn't jump up every time they fuss as puppies in their crates. It's kind of like babies. I fed, made sure a dry diaper was on, and then I'd used the 15 minutes of crying rule before I checked on them. Often, they'd fall back to sleep before the 15 minute mark.

I've used a frozen wash cloth (no kibble) for teething puppies, but only with myself right by the puppy supervising.


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

diane0905 said:


> I just put mine in the crate gently as puppies, making it a pleasant place for them to be -- in the room with me. My first Golden Retriever puppy, Luke, howled like a wolf in his crate the first night. I took him out at regular intervals and, other than that, ignored him. On the second night, he was good to go and slept well from that day forward.
> 
> With Logan (current Golden) I did the same. He wasn't a howler -- he just let me know when he needed to go out. Same thing happened with him -- from second night onward he slept through the night.
> 
> ...


Looks as though you have had smooth sailing. Point of clarification- the frozen cloth with kibble (which has been blown out of all proportion here) is part of early crate training when under supervision and it should definitely be used (as noted) only for very young pups and a cloth that is cotton.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

sevans said:


> Looks as though you have had smooth sailing. Point of clarification- the frozen cloth with kibble (which has been blown out of all proportion here) is part of early crate training when under supervision and it should definitely be used (as noted) only for very young pups and a cloth that is cotton.


Oh, we made it through adolescence and I’m not sure that is ever completely smooth sailing. 😅 Logan is almost two.


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## terra-pin (Dec 18, 2012)

OP here. The rest of the weekend got better. For clarity, so far we have been using the crate at night, and if we are lucky he wakes us only once to go out. Second time he wakes us, we give him the benefit of the doubt and take him out. Third time, tough love, we ignore him until morning. There is no water in the crate at night.

Today is really the first main test, other than Friday, which was a complete failure. I'm working from home in the morning and need him crated or something similar. For now, I've got him gated into a small area of the kitchen with a bed, toys, and nylon chew bone. He's already crying. But I think I'll be able to ignore him and get work done (after I finish posting here, of course). I'll walk him once an hour this morning.

When I leave the house at lunch, it will have to be the crate. Wife and then a dog walker will come by, so the longest continuous period he will be in crate during the day is 2 hours, tops. If that sounds like too long for a 9-week puppy, please let me know. If any of this plan sounds like a bad idea, please let me know. 

Also, what should I do about access to water? Give it to him only when I take him out on the hour? Or leave the bowl with him (which would seemingly cause more accidents).

Thanks again for the advice. As for the debates over frozen towels/treats and on what is "training" and what is not, I'll leave that to the experts. My brother's golden swallowed a towel once. $3000 operation later, lesson learned. So no towels for me.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

What a difference a few days makes! Sounds like you are back in control and I see nothing wrong with your planned routine.

I don't often leave water in the crate unless I know the pup is thirsty. They usually just spill it.


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## terra-pin (Dec 18, 2012)

I'm not so sure I'm "in control." More like he is temporarily taking pity on me. But thanks for advice.


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## Howler (Feb 4, 2021)

The only time our puppy liked the crate is when the crate brought him closer to people. He ended up winning the couch at the centre of the room so you will get no tips from me 


terra-pin said:


> My brother's golden swallowed a towel once.




Thanks for sharing!


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## terra-pin (Dec 18, 2012)

Howler said:


> The only time our puppy liked the crate is when the crate brought him closer to people. He ended up winning the couch at the centre of the room so you will get no tips from me
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for sharing!


I should add that everything turned out fine, and she lived a long life.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

terra-pin said:


> For clarity, so far we have been using the crate at night, and if we are lucky he wakes us only once to go out. Second time he wakes us, we give him the benefit of the doubt and take him out. Third time, tough love, we ignore him until morning. There is no water in the crate at night.


When he wakes you listen closely. You will probably soon be able to differentiate the sounds of 'needs out' and 'wants out'.


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## Emeraldeyes (Jun 9, 2020)

terra-pin said:


> I brought home an 8 week old golden male last week. He is my third golden, so I've been through this before. I love dogs, and consider my first 2 Goldens to be 2 of the best decisions I ever made.
> 
> This new pup, however, is driving my over the edge. I started crate training, but my daughter while visiting unilaterally decided it would be cute to take him out of the crate at night to let him sleep in bed. Now he screams bloody murder in the crate. Both my wife and I work. I had planned to take him to work with me during the day and crate him, but now I don't see that as a possibility because he won't stop crying in the crate. (I brought my last senior golden to work, and everyone loved him. God I miss him.)
> 
> ...


I know crate training is a great thing but we have a large bathroom downstairs and that’s where she likes it her bed fits nice along with toys etc. But I was very lucky she has never had an accident in the house since we brought her home. New puppies can be an adjustment hang in Golden’s are well worth the patience


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## CarolH (May 21, 2021)

Congrats on your puppy! We too have a new puppy and he's our 3rd Golden too. I thought I was experienced, but wow, if your dog lives a long life, you forget what your previous puppy's early life was like and each pup is so different. And I'm older too (62) so I feel your pain. This puppy stuff is way harder when we're older! One thing that has helped us tremendously is putting our puppy's crate on a high table on my side of the bed at face level so we're breathing each others' breath all night. I saw this tip online and it really helped my 8 week old (now 16 weeks) become a good crate sleeper. Good luck and hang in there!


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## magiclover (Apr 22, 2008)

Megora said:


> Bring crate into your bedroom for bedtime.
> 
> Make it a comfortable place for him - big crate, bedding, toys, etc... but be firm and put him in his crate when it is bedtime - preferably a little while before lights are out so he can see that you and your wife are there and it's bedtime.
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I do and I am on Golden # 5. Pup always settles down when crate is next to me at bedtime. I keep the second crate in the busy part of the household so pup can see everyone. I also understand the impulses of "visiting" adult children. Training can easily get derailed. Be firm, no exceptions.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

magiclover said:


> I also understand the impulses of "visiting" adult children. Training can easily get derailed. Be firm, no exceptions.


Sometimes you have to be very blunt, bordering on rude, with people. 
Believe it or not, that isn't at all difficult for me.


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## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

As far as crate training goes, I am not, nor will I ever be, of the mind that you simply put the puppy in the crate and ignore their protests until they give up the will to argue and simply accept it. Sorry, that's not me. What I WILL do is introduce the puppy to a crate and make it a nice place, where they get treats and positive words and they don't have to just accept it as a rule, but they actually like it from the start. So, yes, I believe there is a bit of training involved in crate training. I have not had any dog, except one, who I didn't successfully train, and that one came to me as an adult, from less than stellar beginnings, and had separation anxiety and would injure himself trying to get out. So he has never been crated, he has been gated.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Making mountains out of mole hills prevents people from climbing mountains.


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## Miley moo (Oct 28, 2021)

terra-pin said:


> The crate is in our bedroom, next to bed. We have made the crate comfortable for him, placed toys and chewy nylon bones in crate. Encouraging words when we put him in. Even tried giving him a treat. Also, there is a playpen on the main floor for daytime. So I think we are already set up. This puppy is being walked at least once an hour.
> 
> The breeder started him on crate training. It was going well at first. However, since my daughter's decision to let him sleep in bed, we are going in reverse. Daytime is especially difficult. He demands constant attention by barking and crying. I've tried leaving him alone and not giving in. He's relentless. Half and hour, still howling and whining. I've taken time off work to bond. I have to go back to work Monday. He can't come with me because he will be too much of a distraction.
> 
> I need a plan of action by Monday. The only one I currently have is to leave him at home and pay for a dog walker to come by twice during the day, and to come home early from work.


I feel your pain, I just rescued my 51/2 month puppy, when she was 4 months old. She was crated when we picked her up, and she goes in her crate when I leave, I throw a biscuit in there to keep her busy. The first couple nights she cried to go out, like having a new born, get use to getting up when they are young. I have a 12 year old and a 7 1/2 year old dog which have helped train and drain her energy. She still goes in the crate when we are not home and if she needs to take a break, and when we need a break from her.  She just started to sleep in a doggie bed outside the crate at the end of the bed and is pretty housetrained, she rings the bell on our back door to go out, she is food motivated, and consistency is key. She wakes us up around 6 every morning to go out then goes right back in her bed. I think she really learned from the other dogs. Puppies are a lot of work when they are around 4 m. to 1yr, but just remember this will pass. My last rescue, I had to hire someone to let her out mid day from the crate because we had to work. Now I'm fully remote most of the time and my husband and I work schedule usually has someone home, so she isn't in the crate more then 2 hrs, if that. Did you think of Doggy Day Care? Maybe is the puppy is around other dogs she will be socialized and exhausted when you get home. Good Luck with the puppy and just be patient. Just be consistent with your training is key.


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## Shnga (Jan 25, 2019)

Congrats!! Just a little encouragement here…With patience and persistence this will pass and you’ll probably forget all about how hard this beginning puppy part was! Remember that he’s just a baby. When we got our last golden I bought a toy for her to sleep with that made the same sound as a mother’s beating heart. I think you can find them on Amazon. Our pup LOVED it and it definitely helped calm her down and comfort her in her crate at night. I also kept the crate next to my bed because like I said, they are just babies at that age, and she just needed a little reassurance at night for the first few days. Even just a little soft melodic “ssshh, sshhh” did the trick a lot of the time. Don’t give up!! You’re going to have a new best friend in no time and won’t even remember how exhausted you are!!


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## Kenmar (Apr 28, 2018)

terra-pin said:


> I brought home an 8 week old golden male last week. He is my third golden, so I've been through this before. I love dogs, and consider my first 2 Goldens to be 2 of the best decisions I ever made.
> 
> This new pup, however, is driving my over the edge. I started crate training, but my daughter while visiting unilaterally decided it would be cute to take him out of the crate at night to let him sleep in bed. Now he screams bloody murder in the crate. Both my wife and I work. I had planned to take him to work with me during the day and crate him, but now I don't see that as a possibility because he won't stop crying in the crate. (I brought my last senior golden to work, and everyone loved him. God I miss him.)
> 
> ...


I was in exactly your place early 2020 with our boy. Golden puppies are hard!!! Today, close to 2 years later, our boy is a joy. Very different from our other goldens but my constant companion. It WILL get better!
Just a reminder…when you do get him out in the middle of the night, do it “very matter of factly”. No talking to him, no lights, no treats, and immediately back in his crate after he does his business.

the first few months are tough, but you will be rewarded with years of companionship ❤


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## Mendy (Oct 17, 2020)

terra-pin said:


> I need a plan of action by Monday. The only one I currently have is to leave him at home and pay for a dog walker to come by twice during the day, and to come home early from work.


How did you Monday go???


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## Miley moo (Oct 28, 2021)

Kenmar said:


> I was in exactly your place early 2020 with our boy. Golden puppies are hard!!! Today, close to 2 years later, our boy is a joy. Very different from our other goldens but my constant companion. It WILL get better!
> Just a reminder…when you do get him out in the middle of the night, do it “very matter of factly”. No talking to him, no lights, no treats, and immediately back in his crate after he does his business.
> 
> the first few months are tough, but you will be rewarded with years of companionship ❤


Yes, when I take my puppy out in the yard, I have her on a leash, take her to her "spot" and afterwards bring her back in. Not to confuse her that outside is not always PLAYTIME.


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## skay22 (Sep 25, 2021)

Megora said:


> Bring crate into your bedroom for bedtime.
> 
> Make it a comfortable place for him - big crate, bedding, toys, etc... but be firm and put him in his crate when it is bedtime - preferably a little while before lights are out so he can see that you and your wife are there and it's bedtime.
> 
> ...


*X2*


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## Obieobie (Jul 4, 2021)

terra-pin said:


> I brought home an 8 week old golden male last week. He is my third golden, so I've been through this before. I love dogs, and consider my first 2 Goldens to be 2 of the best decisions I ever made.
> 
> This new pup, however, is driving my over the edge. I started crate training, but my daughter while visiting unilaterally decided it would be cute to take him out of the crate at night to let him sleep in bed. Now he screams bloody murder in the crate. Both my wife and I work. I had planned to take him to work with me during the day and crate him, but now I don't see that as a possibility because he won't stop crying in the crate. (I brought my last senior golden to work, and everyone loved him. God I miss him.)
> 
> ...


Oof I feel this. My Oberon is/was the biggest jerk about sleeping in his crate. He had horrible puppy FOMO and resisted it from the word go. He's now 7 months old and we no longer use the crate as he is an angel puppy who no longer has accidents and has never chewed anything (knock wood) other than his toys. However, I'm still so glad I crate trained him. He can get in a crate now when he needs to (traveling, groomer, vet, training class) without anxiety. 

I tried every trick in the book and the only thing that worked was a snuggle puppy, covering the crate, and ignoring him when he cried. I tried every suggestion my trainer could throw at me (white noise, kong, bones, chews, bigger crate, smaller crate, frozen veggies) and seriously its just test of wills. The crying rarely lasts longer than 15 minutes anyway. We both lived to tell the tale though and he's a better dog for it. You got this.


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## Atlasdog (Sep 30, 2020)

I had a really rough time with my puppy with behaviors and now he’s amazing but still a work in training. But what helped him so much was this heart beat puppy I got from Amazon I’ll post a picture of it below. He still loves that thing although it’s more of a play toy now. Maybe you can give it a try?


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## Atlasdog (Sep 30, 2020)

Here he is all grown up still in love with it 🥰


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## Beau-Bear (Jun 2, 2021)

terra-pin said:


> I brought home an 8 week old golden male last week. He is my third golden, so I've been through this before. I love dogs, and consider my first 2 Goldens to be 2 of the best decisions I ever made.
> 
> This new pup, however, is driving my over the edge. I started crate training, but my daughter while visiting unilaterally decided it would be cute to take him out of the crate at night to let him sleep in bed. Now he screams bloody murder in the crate. Both my wife and I work. I had planned to take him to work with me during the day and crate him, but now I don't see that as a possibility because he won't stop crying in the crate. (I brought my last senior golden to work, and everyone loved him. God I miss him.)
> 
> ...


Put him on your bed to sleep? My pup sleeps the whole night ON my bed at FOOT area. I put a sheet on top of area. He sleeps all night long quietly. It's hard I know. Be patient.


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## StarBright (Nov 11, 2015)

terra-pin said:


> I brought home an 8 week old golden male last week. He is my third golden, so I've been through this before. I love dogs, and consider my first 2 Goldens to be 2 of the best decisions I ever made.
> 
> This new pup, however, is driving my over the edge. I started crate training, but my daughter while visiting unilaterally decided it would be cute to take him out of the crate at night to let him sleep in bed. Now he screams bloody murder in the crate. Both my wife and I work. I had planned to take him to work with me during the day and crate him, but now I don't see that as a possibility because he won't stop crying in the crate. (I brought my last senior golden to work, and everyone loved him. God I miss him.)
> 
> ...


I highly recommend Susan Garrett’s crate games. She also has many videos and training opportunities, some for free and others to buy. Here’s the crate games link. DVDS - DogsThat


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## StarBright (Nov 11, 2015)

terra-pin said:


> I brought home an 8 week old golden male last week. He is my third golden, so I've been through this before. I love dogs, and consider my first 2 Goldens to be 2 of the best decisions I ever made.
> 
> This new pup, however, is driving my over the edge. I started crate training, but my daughter while visiting unilaterally decided it would be cute to take him out of the crate at night to let him sleep in bed. Now he screams bloody murder in the crate. Both my wife and I work. I had planned to take him to work with me during the day and crate him, but now I don't see that as a possibility because he won't stop crying in the crate. (I brought my last senior golden to work, and everyone loved him. God I miss him.)
> 
> ...


Lots of free mini training from Susan on Youtube. She also does free webinars that you can sign up for, when offered. I think you sign up for notifications on her website to be notified of future free events. Here’s a good free puppy training video on YouTube,


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Obieobie said:


> I tried every trick in the book and the only thing that worked was a snuggle puppy, covering the crate, and ignoring him when he cried. I tried every suggestion my trainer could throw at me (white noise, kong, bones, chews, bigger crate, smaller crate, frozen veggies) and seriously its just test of wills. The crying rarely lasts longer than 15 minutes anyway. We both lived to tell the tale though and he's a better dog for it. You got this.


"ignoring him when he cried" 
It worked again. 
I don't understand why it is so difficult for so many to do this. All the other garbage that "Pro trainers" and "behaviorist" spew out only prolongs, complicates and avoids a simple concept that a pup can learn in the first few days.


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## terra-pin (Dec 18, 2012)

Sorry to disappear for a few days. It has been an encouraging week so far. Last night, he made it through the entire night without waking me up. He's getting very good with the crate at night. Daytime is another issue. I'm trying to tether him by my desk by my feet and still get work done, but that is not so easy. 

But overall, things are going well. And I greatly appreciate the constructive advice. I definitely intend to try some of it out.


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## terra-pin (Dec 18, 2012)

SRW said:


> Making mountains out of mole hills prevents people from climbing mountains.


Really? You think that was necessary? My problems don't measure up to your standards? Being kept up all night then going to a demanding job exhausted just doesn't cut it in your book? Here's an idea, keep you comments to yourself until you learn how to be constructive. Then, accept that I'm not interested in your advice, and choose not to post again to this thread.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

terra-pin said:


> Really? You think that was necessary? My problems don't measure up to your standards? Being kept up all night then going to a demanding job exhausted just doesn't cut it in your book? Here's an idea, keep you comments to yourself until you learn how to be constructive. Then, accept that I'm not interested in your advice, and choose not to post again to this thread.


The comment was not directed at you, your dog or your problems. Read the thread again and that should be clear. If not, you may want to put me on ignore. There is little chance I will remain silent when advice is asked for or poor advice is given.


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

terra-pin said:


> Really? You think that was necessary? My problems don't measure up to your standards? Being kept up all night then going to a demanding job exhausted just doesn't cut it in your book? Here's an idea, keep you comments to yourself until you learn how to be constructive. Then, accept that I'm not interested in your advice, and choose not to post again to this thread.


Must have missed something there? Assuming someone posted something rude? Good to hear that things are getting better. There are certainly going to be times when you will ask yourself “what have I done?” I think we all do that- they can be very challenging puppies to be sure. Daytime crating is a challenge when you are trying to get work done in the same space. Is it possible to move his crate out of earshot? It may not be possible in your situation but have you tried crating for shorter intervals punctuated by excercise? I am fortunate that whenever I am reaching the end of my rope with our puppy- my sweet, gentle old man (11 years old) will come over and rest his big Golden head in my lap and I can see the future.


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## Piper_the_goldenpuppy (Aug 26, 2016)

terra-pin said:


> Sorry to disappear for a few days. It has been an encouraging week so far. Last night, he made it through the entire night without waking me up. He's getting very good with the crate at night. Daytime is another issue. I'm trying to tether him by my desk by my feet and still get work done, but that is not so easy.


Honestly, I couldn't imagine getting any work done tethered to a puppy at my desk. So the fact that you are still trying must mean you are making progress. Is there room for an x-pen or crate, so the pup could stay out of trouble and you could get some work done?


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## terra-pin (Dec 18, 2012)

SRW said:


> The comment was not directed at you, your dog or your problems. Read the thread again and that should be clear. If not, you may want to put me on ignore. There is little chance I will remain silent when advice is asked for or poor advice is given.


If I was mistaken, then I apologize. Thank you for clarifying.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

terra-pin said:


> If I was mistaken, then I apologize. Thank you for clarifying.


No problem. I hope your pups behavior continues to improve. It will if you continue to do your part and maintain standards.
When it seems that you aren't making progress, think back at where you were at a week or two ago instead of just a couple days ago.


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