# Breeder thoughts



## Mickeykidz (Oct 21, 2014)

Hello, 
We recently lost our golden of almost 14 years and our looking for a new puppy in Southern California, over the next six months or so. I have contacted several breeders. One of the breeders is Musicur and Five Star kennels has a puppy. Has any one heard of this kennel or Susan Wilson? Have you had a good experience with them?
Thank you for any help.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

I'm so sorry for your loss. It's a hole that cannot be filled. But like you, when I lost my last Golden, I went looking for a new puppy. People said I should wait, but I'm very glad I didn't, because I got my wonderful Gibbs from it (dog in right-hand picture in my signature). But, to answer your question...

Yes. Susanne Wilson and Star Beckwith are excellent, ethical breeders of very good Golden Retrievers. I highly recommend them. And they are ridiculously nice people, too.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

I'm so sorry for your loss. I wish you the best in your search.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Mickeykidz said:


> Hello,
> We recently lost our golden of almost 14 years and our looking for a new puppy in Southern California, over the next six months or so. I have contacted several breeders. One of the breeders is Musicur and Five Star kennels has a puppy. Has any one heard of this kennel or Susan Wilson? Have you had a good experience with them?
> Thank you for any help.


I'm sorry for your loss, I hope your puppy project helps your healing process. Congratulations on doing good research and getting a thumbs up from DanaRuns. That's a great sign  Ask about health clearances no matter who the breeder is, (reputable breeders will be happy to talk about them.) It's nice to get that positive response from a forum member who knows the breeder personally, good for you. Hope you will be back here posting photos of your new pup soon.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I second DanaRuns' enthusiastic thumbs up for Star Beckwith and Suzanne Wilson. They are wonderful and VERY nice people to boot.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

They are lovely people, caring and friendly. They are active with their dogs. A though I am bias because they are the owners of my own Jinx's dad, they have beautiful dogs!


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## Mickeykidz (Oct 21, 2014)

Thank you so very much for your help on this great breeder.


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## Mickeykidz (Oct 21, 2014)

OK, so my husband found a breeder in Ventura called Saddle Creek Farms, the owner being Diane Atkinson....Does anyone know this breeder?
Also, what art your thoughts if it is the last puppy left..
Thank you so very much for all you help.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Why wouldn't you go with the breeder that you got two thumbs up from people on this thread? LJack even said she knows the breeder well and thinks she's terrific. What happened?

I looked at the website and most health clearances appear to be in order I am not a fan of them using "English Creme" etc. on their website, it's a marketing ploy designed to convince you to pay more money for their puppies for no good reason. They do not appear to show their dogs at all, that is a deal killer for me. 

And then there is this which I found on her site " There seemed to be a growing problem with hip & elbow dysplasia, and then heart problems, and even cataracts, this is not even addressing the health issues of allergies and cancer. Then the ultimate problem of temperament! " Anyone who tries to tell you that all of these issues are not found in the 'European' lines is lying. I do not like any breeder not bothering to show their own dogs, resting on the laurels of the people who owned previous dogs and put hard work into them. 

I think that, for the money, you can do better. Why don't you ask for a referral from the breeder that was recommended to you earlier in this thread?


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Well, here are my thoughts:

I actually like the dad. He is from Kyon one of the prominent kennels in Ontario. He also is listed as having a CD, which means that he has some basic Obedience training and did compete. He also has complete clearances. 

I am very concerned about the mom. She has only a practitioner heart clearance and there are many holes behind her. She is also leased and not owned. Leasing does sometimes happen but I have never seen a breeder lease every single bitch in their program. Add to that that these bitches are lease from Sandar that has a very shady reputation. This would be a deal breaker for me.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Please do a search on Sandar golden retrievers.


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## Mickeykidz (Oct 21, 2014)

Musicur and Five Star kennels one male puppy the breeder had first rights back and they took the boy. Musicur and Five Stars were so very kind and were very proactive in helping find other breeders. They were wonderful. The breeder on Ventura at Saddle Creek I was not comfortable with just call it a gut feeling. I am working with some other breeders right now. Thank you so very much for all the help and suggestions, it has helped tremendously. I wish you all well.


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## Mickeykidz (Oct 21, 2014)

So, I have have a few EXCELLENT breeders fall through for our family for various reasons and we are so disappointed...My husband keeps finding **other** breeders that I keep turing away... Any thoughts on a breeder called Golden Lite Kennel and a Deborah Mcintyre?? What is the average wait time for a GREAT puppy from an EXCELLENT breeder for a pet golden in other words you do not want to show? Once again thank you all so very much....We just miss our dog so much...


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

I'm totally unfamiliar with CA breeders so I can't comment there, but as far as how long you should expect to wait for a pup from a great breeder, I'd say at least a few months minimum. Sometimes you can get lucky and stumble upon a pup from a litter where someone backed out for some reason, but often good breeders have pups spoken for before they are born. Last fall when I was searching for my pup, I began researching in late September and finally settled on his litter in early November, and he wasn't born until November 19th (today is actually his 1st birthday!). We're looking now to add another Golden to the family and I just got on a list this week for a pup that would be ready to go home in May; the dam hasn't even come into season yet, this is just something the breeder has planned for December. 

I know it stinks to wait when you really want a pup, but it will be very worth it in the end to get one from an ethical, reputable breeder. Promise.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Did you look at the GoldnLite website? Maybe I pulled up the wrong site. Can you post a link? What I found was, um, interesting:

Goldnlite Kennels Breeders - I clicked on a link labeled "breeders" thinking it was info for people who are interested in breeding to this person's male dog. Instead I find photos of dogs. One photo is a dog and the caption is iper, One very nice breeder. Ugh, Piper isn't a beloved dog, she's a 'breeder.'?????
At the bottom left is the heading "Champions at there best" - what? I can't stand people who don't proof their own work for spelling or grammar. Meanwhile, there is no mention anywhere of pedigrees, proof of clearances or any sign that the breeder competes in anything with these dogs.

ETA: When you click on her "Health Guarantee" it takes you to a blank page. Her $500 deposit requirement is non-refundable and she makes a point of telling you that the 2nd deposit is also non-refundable. Most breeders I know are most concerned about the best home possible for their puppies, this doesn't give me that warm fuzzy feeling.

To answer your questions.... "What is the average wait time for a GREAT puppy from an EXCELLENT breeder for a pet golden in other words you do not want to show?" Anywhere from a few weeks to a year is totally normal. It all depends on if you can find someone with a spot on their waiting list or not. Sometimes puppy homes back out or have a reason they can't take a puppy they were planning on and you could get lucky. Other times, especially if you have your heart set on a particular breeder or are not willing to travel etc. it can be much longer. One experienced person here cracks me up with this reminder: " It's not like Walmart, you can't just go in and pick a nice puppy off a shelf."

Please understand that one of the hallmarks of a reputable breeder is that he or she is breeding a littler of puppies to keep one for themselves of the sire of the litter - not just to make money. It doesn't matter if you never plan to show your puppy, yours will receive the same nutrition, upbringing and attention as the top show pick puppy in the litter. That's part of what makes these puppies worth the wait. 

I understand how awful it is to lost a precious Golden unexpectedly and realize that the wait for a puppy is going to be significantly longer than expected. Believe me, I went through this when I first found this forum. Please, please try to follow the advice given here on due diligence and the benefit of waiting for a good breeder. We have way too many stories from people who didn't know better or didn't have the self discipline to wait and lived to regret the outcome. I know it is so, so hard to have a home without a dog and to miss the sweetness of life with a dog when you're missing the one you've lost so much. Please continue to research and try to get through this grieving process as best you can. It is so hard, but you will be glad you did. 

Have any of the "excellent" breeders who haven't worked out been able to help you with a referral to someone else they recommend? Are you all looking farther afield? Flying home with an 8 week old puppy in a carrier is something that a lot of us have done with great success, have you considered traveling ?


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

If you'd consider traveling to nearby states there are a few programs I can think of that I like.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Golden Retriever Puppies - Golden Light Kennel

^ This is what I thought the OP meant. 

@Nolefan - that goldenlite place is a nightmare!!!!


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## Susan: w/ Summit we climb (Jun 12, 2014)

CharlieBear80 said:


> If you'd consider traveling to nearby states there are a few programs I can think of that I like.


We're not looking now, but I'd appreciate knowing about them for future reference--if they're interested in homes that don't showm that is. Our previous Golden was a pup from a show litter, and he had no physical issues at all, until he died from hemangio at 11.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

@OP - It seems like you are asking 2 questions here.

*What should you be looking for in a breeder who is not a show breeder?* And the reason why people ask this question is they are hoping to spend a little less. I honestly think it really depends on the breeder. 

Some may be breeding their family pets and charging only what they think people will pay. This might be fine, but make sure you have full clearances on both parents and going generations back behind those dogs. You should very least have 3-5 generations with full clearances. You don't have to demand this much in a breeder, but if they do not do clearances and do not have that history of clearances and selective breeding behind the dogs they've bred, I don't really think they could be considered "EXCELLENT" breeders. 

Some may also charge less for puppies if they primarily breed and produce dogs that lack proper bone, structure, coat, pigment, look, temperament etc... which basically many people want even in a family pet. Which... if they charge less, is fine. It comes down to what you want in a golden retriever.

*Would I be able to purchase a puppy IMMEDIATELY going through X type of breeders vs Y breeder? *I'm not 100% sure if this is correct, so please don't quote me. But I seem to remember attending club meetings a couple years ago - people had a lot of litters to go and not enough people looking for puppies. Then this past year, there was a really high demand for puppies, but not enough litters. I think there's some supply and demand effects. 

And there are sometimes other reasons why a litter might not be all sold very early. With my Bertie - as far as I know, there were 6 boys in his litter. It was all a very good and solid litter and puppies were not sold until all the breeders, including the one in Ontario, had a chance to look and decide whether they wanted to keep a pick. Best time for them to look at the puppies for prospects is 7-8 weeks old. And then the other breeders looked at the litter to make their picks. I was the first pet home to see the litter and make my pick. My puppy was 9 weeks old by then and basically I paid in full and took him home that same day. 

My Jacks came from a more pet focused breeder (big kennel) and they totally had wait lists even back then when they had around 3 litters at a time. With Jacks, I just had to wait about a month until he was ready to come home.... and his whole litter was sold/spoken for by the time the puppies were 3-4 weeks. This breeder charged about $100-200 less than show breeders. Currently they charge the same amounts AS show breeders - because they can. Prime example of there not being a price difference. And they have a track record of breeding "out" of their program (not just breeding all their own dogs) and they do full clearances, etc.


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## Mickeykidz (Oct 21, 2014)

Wow, Thank you all for the help! I really appreciated it. Not necessarily looking to pay less, just hopefully want a healthy dog, who I pray that will live a long time. I do not necessary want a large kennel. I want the puppies to be raised in a home with lots of love.
Oh, I am in Orange County, I am currently have been referred to a breeder in Bakersfield.
Once again thank you all so much.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Mickeykidz said:


> OK, so my husband found a breeder in Ventura called Saddle Creek Farms, the owner being Diane Atkinson....Does anyone know this breeder?
> Also, what art your thoughts if it is the last puppy left..
> Thank you so very much for all you help.


Last puppy left may not mean anything negative depending on how selection is done. Every breeder is different, but for many of us, the last available puppy really means the one that's 'second best' since we're breeding for ourselves and might hang onto one for an extra week or two till we make our choice. If it's the Saddle Creek boy left, that probably isn't the case though.

As to Saddle Creek - just a quick look at the site doesn't impress me - dam of the litter has a pet vet cardiac clearance, not COE correct- this line is misleading at best and untrue at worst... too bad that's not how it really works, if it were, we'd have no breed problems... the dogs used in our breeding program have been given hip, elbow, heart and eye clearances, virtually eliminating some of the most common problems found in the breed


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## Mickeykidz (Oct 21, 2014)

Thank you all for all your thoughts about the breeders my husband has found. I have NOT been comfortable with any of the breeders he has found for some of the exact reasons many of you have stated, mainly the clearances. I actually turn away an very good breeder since it was a bit more of a kennel, although I am sure the dogs were receiving excellent care. I have a call into a top handler that was recommended to me and another excellent breeder. Thank you so very much for all your help.


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## Ventura11 (Mar 10, 2017)

I own three goldens from Saddle Creek Farms Ojai and they are amazing goldens. Excellent health, temperament and the joys of my life. Ages are 9,7 & 4


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## Cynthia Simon (Jan 16, 2019)

I couldn’t agree more!!! Mine just passed at age 11 after ZERO health issues. I am now trying to contact Diane for another pup. Extraordinary dog!


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