# Miracle, Thy Name is Prong Collar



## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I love the prong collar when working with my dogs..... Maggie doesnt even need one now ..and the others arent to far behind her.....


----------



## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

When used right they awesome tools. Thats for sure.


----------



## Nanika (Jan 10, 2008)

I read somewhere that the prong collar was 'power steering for dogs' ...glad it is working out for you. Walks should be enjoyable and in time maybe you can leave the prong collar behind.


----------



## Celeigh (Nov 29, 2007)

That's my ultimate goal - not to need it for him. As medieval as it looks, I truly think he was a lot more comfortable with it than with his martingale collar. Because with the martingale, he would pull 100% of the time to the point of choking, even wearing himself out and needing to lay down partway through for a rest. We had none of that. He self-corrected every time he started to go off course or pull too hard. What a great tool.


----------



## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Celeigh said:


> That's my ultimate goal - not to need it for him. As medieval as it looks, I truly think he was a lot more comfortable with it than with his martingale collar. Because with the martingale, he would pull 100% of the time to the point of choking, even wearing himself out and needing to lay down partway through for a rest. We had none of that. He self-corrected every time he started to go off course or pull too hard. What a great tool.


Now you have the pups attention, and you/he can begin to learn to communicate more effectively. I will bet that with dedicated time and practice you will make quick progress in getting the pup to work with you. You will likely notice an improvement in attitude about training from the parties at both ends of the lead.


----------



## Celeigh (Nov 29, 2007)

Swampcollie said:


> Now you have the pups attention, and you/he can begin to learn to communicate more effectively. I will bet that with dedicated time and practice you will make quick progress in getting the pup to work with you. You will likely notice an improvement in attitude about training from the parties at both ends of the lead.


Yes! I know training is definitely more about the biped holding the leash than the quadriped attached to it, but it certainly helps to have his attention without needing to wave treats under his nose. But now that I think of it, he's walking so nicely treats are in order.  But it feels better to give treats as a reward rather than as a bribe!


----------



## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

We use a prong collar at times with Samson....depends on where we're going. If we're on our way to the park, he pulls like crazy. On a normal walk, he does fine. We've never had any problems with Cosmo.


----------



## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Celeigh said:


> Yes! I know training is definitely more about the biped holding the leash than the quadriped attached to it, but it certainly helps to have his attention without needing to wave treats under his nose. But now that I think of it, he's walking so nicely treats are in order.  But it feels better to give treats as a reward rather than as a bribe!


Exactly! Once you have pup's undivided attention the praise/treat/reward for compliance with your commands has meaning. You will likely find you will find a lot more "good dog's" in your training sessions and far fewer "no's". The ability to deliver a quick gentle correction for a refusal or lack of effort, contrasted against praise/treat for quick prompt compliance makes most retrievers quick learners.


----------



## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

Used the right way prong collars can get attention and corre ct behavior and other training will actually benefit.


----------



## wagondog (Aug 24, 2007)

After you have been using the prong for a while and you have the desired behavior with it try leaving it on but connect the lead to his flat collar. Just the presence of the prong collar is sometimes enough to get the proper performance. Then you can wean the prong off completely if you wish.
Wagondog


----------



## Merlins mom (Jun 20, 2007)

Your subject title made me laugh!!! I soooo know what you are talking about!! It took our obedience trainer to convince Scott that it is not a torture device!!

Isn't it amazing to not dread the walks and come home happy? It's a beautiful thing!


----------



## bwoz (Jul 12, 2007)

I'm so glad you shared this because I've been wondering what to try with Banner. He's ok til we see someone (or a leaf blowing by) and he's out of control. I also was told to give treats to distract him but I felt that for us, it was actually rewarding him for being an idiot. Does anyone know if there is an age minimum? I'm off to research more.....Love the title by the way, I can't stop laughing because I know how you feel!


----------



## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

our trainer uses them on 3-4 month old puppies.....


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

bwoz said:


> I'm so glad you shared this because I've been wondering what to try with Banner. He's ok til we see someone (or a leaf blowing by) and he's out of control. I also was told to give treats to distract him but I felt that for us, it was actually rewarding him for being an idiot. Does anyone know if there is an age minimum? I'm off to research more.....Love the title by the way, I can't stop laughing because I know how you feel!



There are lots of ways to train a dog. I personally would never put a prong collar on a dog under at least 6 months, and I try other tools first.

That said, what I really wanted to point out, is that the using food method can work and it's not all about using it to distract the dog - at least not how some people use it. For me, the idea of using food is making it a tool to make it easier for the dog to do what you want. So, when I have a young, excited dog and somebody wants to come say hi, I know if I let the dog do his own thing, it will incolve jumping and general idiocy on the part of the dog! So, I get a handful of treats, ball them up in my hand, ask the dog to sit and allow him to lick the treats out of my hand. I'm shifting a lot of his focus off the thought of OMG! A PERSON! and onto HEY! TREATS HERE! So the dog is getting rewarded (treats + attention) for being in a sit. It's making it easier for the dog to get it right - especially when I've realized that for now, on his own, he'll choose to jump. Over time, as the dog learns and gains self control, you wean off the treats.

So, IMO, it's not rewarding general idiocy on the part of the dog anymore than allowing me to use a dictionary to help me spell words correctly would be rewarding a lack of spelling knowledge. It's just a tool to help the dog do the RIGHT THING b/c dogs get better at whatever they practice. 

The prong collar works by letting the dog know that something bad happens if he pulls, jumps, etc. The something bad is either self-inflicted by the dog or carries the added act of a leash-pop by the owner. IMO, they can be just as hard as food to wean off of, as the dogs can become very collar savvy.

Not blanket bashing prong collars. I do use them VERY SPARINGLY on dogs and generally only on dogs who can't tolorate other tools like the Gentle Leader or EZ Walk Harness. 

Lots of ways to train a dog.... just expressing an opinion here!

-s


----------



## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> So, IMO, it's not rewarding general idiocy on the part of the dog anymore than allowing me to use a dictionary to help me spell words correctly would be rewarding a lack of spelling knowledge. It's just a tool to help the dog do the RIGHT THING b/c dogs get better at whatever they practice.


Good example!!


----------



## bwoz (Jul 12, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> There are lots of ways to train a dog. I personally would never put a prong collar on a dog under at least 6 months, and I try other tools first.
> 
> That said, what I really wanted to point out, is that the using food method can work and it's not all about using it to distract the dog - at least not how some people use it. For me, the idea of using food is making it a tool to make it easier for the dog to do what you want. So, when I have a young, excited dog and somebody wants to come say hi, I know if I let the dog do his own thing, it will incolve jumping and general idiocy on the part of the dog! So, I get a handful of treats, ball them up in my hand, ask the dog to sit and allow him to lick the treats out of my hand. I'm shifting a lot of his focus off the thought of OMG! A PERSON! and onto HEY! TREATS HERE! So the dog is getting rewarded (treats + attention) for being in a sit. It's making it easier for the dog to get it right - especially when I've realized that for now, on his own, he'll choose to jump. Over time, as the dog learns and gains self control, you wean off the treats.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the advice. I totally get what you do with the food, and I wish it worked for Banner. He's 10 months now, and I do go to positive reinforcement classes, but he is just so over the top when he sees people that even food doesn't distract him. I mean he flails around like a fish out of water. He got out of his collar last night to go to a toddler and her dad. THANK GOD he just sat right down in front of them so they could pet him and didn't jump, but that craziness isn't acceptable for me. Other than those times he really is a pretty laid back dog and listens well. So I just got back from buying a nylon martingale to start off slow. I don't know if he neccessarily needs the prong yet so I figured I'd take baby steps and see where we go. Hey I guess it could be worse for me so I won't complain!


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

bwoz said:


> Thanks for all the advice. I totally get what you do with the food, and I wish it worked for Banner. He's 10 months now, and I do go to positive reinforcement classes, but he is just so over the top when he sees people that even food doesn't distract him. I mean he flails around like a fish out of water. He got out of his collar last night to go to a toddler and her dad. THANK GOD he just sat right down in front of them so they could pet him and didn't jump, but that craziness isn't acceptable for me. Other than those times he really is a pretty laid back dog and listens well. So I just got back from buying a nylon martingale to start off slow. I don't know if he neccessarily needs the prong yet so I figured I'd take baby steps and see where we go. Hey I guess it could be worse for me so I won't complain!


Nylon martingale is a great collar for dogs who may slip out. Excellent choice!

The other thought is, what constitutes "good food" to one dog may differ to the next and may also differ for the same dog depending on the level of distractions. So for me, I'm not against using really, really, REALLY good food around high level distractions, which for your friendly dog, would be people. Things to try: cooked chicken, lunchmeats, cheese, boiled chicken livers, etc. I'm doing a nail trimming class this weekend and most all the dogs are already coming to me with negative ideas about trimming nails. I just bought 2 lbs of roast beef to slowly try and change their minds!

Good luck - and happy training! Remember: baby steps!


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

OH - and if you can't direct his attention with even really good food, it means he's too close to the distraction. Try adding distance.


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

LibertyME said:


> Good example!!


Why thank you! I actually came up with it on the fly while responding to the post, but I plan to remember it so I can use it again in the future! :dblthumb2:scratchch:dblthumb2


----------



## Wilson's REAL Mom (Nov 10, 2006)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Nylon martingale is a great collar for dogs who may slip out. Excellent choice!
> 
> The other thought is, what constitutes "good food" to one dog may differ to the next and may also differ for the same dog depending on the level of distractions. So for me, I'm not against using really, really, REALLY good food around high level distractions, which for your friendly dog, would be people. Things to try: cooked chicken, lunchmeats, cheese, boiled chicken livers, etc. I'm doing a nail trimming class this weekend and most all the dogs are already coming to me with negative ideas about trimming nails. I just bought 2 lbs of roast beef to slowly try and change their minds!
> 
> Good luck - and happy training! Remember: baby steps!


Oh! Can we come?


----------



## HovawartMom (Aug 10, 2006)

Even though I hate it,I've had to use it on some dogs that were not mine and the results were amazing!.It is like a power steering and very little correction is needed for the dogs to get the message.On a puller or just a very strong dog like a lab,it avoids a crashed trechea.


----------



## LibbysMom (Jan 15, 2008)

After reading this post I was planning on getting Libby a prong collar. On Saturday we went up to Petsmart and I fitted her for a collar. My husband was very vocal about expressing the fact that he wasn't going ot use it on her even though he can't stand how she pulls. I felt bad too but we just have been having such a hard time with her and we have been doing the training and everything. Anyways- while we were debating getting the prong collar, one of the trainers suggested the genrle Leader easy walk harness. She fitted Libby with it and let us walk her around the VERY busy store with it and you would have sworn we were walking a different dog. We bought it and have now gone on several walks with her since it was nice and it was like night and day! We are amazed at how well it worked! So if someone is wary of using a prong collar, i would highly reccomend trying one of these harnesses. I was amazed how well it worked for us. Libby is 10 months old but small for a golden (40lbs) but when she pulls, you'd think she was a 100lb dog!


----------



## Emmysourgolden (Oct 10, 2007)

LibbysMom said:


> After reading this post I was planning on getting Libby a prong collar. On Saturday we went up to Petsmart and I fitted her for a collar. My husband was very vocal about expressing the fact that he wasn't going ot use it on her even though he can't stand how she pulls. I felt bad too but we just have been having such a hard time with her and we have been doing the training and everything. Anyways- while we were debating getting the prong collar, one of the trainers suggested the genrle Leader easy walk harness. She fitted Libby with it and let us walk her around the VERY busy store with it and you would have sworn we were walking a different dog. We bought it and have now gone on several walks with her since it was nice and it was like night and day! We are amazed at how well it worked! So if someone is wary of using a prong collar, i would highly reccomend trying one of these harnesses. I was amazed how well it worked for us. Libby is 10 months old but small for a golden (40lbs) but when she pulls, you'd think she was a 100lb dog!


Is that the one that goes around the dog's muzzle or chest? I just ordered the one that goes around the chest..hoping it works.


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

i use the easy walk harness (the harness, not "muzzle" headcollar) for Sam and it works WONDERS.... from the first time we used it, Sam was a completely different dog on his walks. good luck!


----------



## LibbysMom (Jan 15, 2008)

Emmysourgolden said:


> Is that the one that goes around the dog's muzzle or chest? I just ordered the one that goes around the chest..hoping it works.


It's the one that goes around the chest. we were trying on the one that fits on the muzzle and the lady suggested the harness one. We love it and Libby doesn't mind it at all either!


----------



## Katiesmommy (Sep 10, 2006)

We tried the "Prong collar" it only worked for a little while. We recently switched over to the Premier Easy Walk Harness and are very happy with it. We bought it at Pet Smart for $22


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

you can get the easy walk harness even cheaper online, but unless you know the exact size needed (they also sell 1/2 sizes, online only tho) i recommend getting it at petsmart so you can exchange if needed.


----------



## Kzwicker (Aug 14, 2007)

We started Murphy with a prong collar when he was about 7 months in the middle of obediance class. I went from having a poorly behaived dog, to an angle.. I had a hard time with it at first too, but it made the training sooo much easier. I even tried it on when we got home just so I would know what it felt like. Getting it fitted right is really important too.. We havent walked with it for a while and he is doing pretty good. I will still use it if I know we are going for a long walk.


----------



## tintallie (May 31, 2006)

Prong collar can be a godsend for someone who is much smaller proportionally to their dog or who has an insatiable puller (mine is both). it is not a substitute for training, however it does allow you to do appropriate corrections without the same amount of force that a slip collar would require. With training, you can wean your dog off the prong collar.

I really dislike the Gentle Leader Easy Walk Harness because you can't correct your dog and get their attention in the same way if they go after something that runs by or if they mouth something they shouldn't. The Gentle Leader or Halti head harnesses can do a lot of damage as well if you jerk a correction suddenly...so to say that those are okay and a prong collar isn't an accurate picture. Any tool can be helpful or abused.


----------



## Bud (Mar 10, 2008)

I forgot about the prong collar until I read this thread. Found the one I had from my last dog. Fit Bud perfect and like you said what a difference.


----------

