# More on training go outs



## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Very creative! I'll have to make a couple of those. Cute Connor! Whenever I am doing impromptu training with Dooley and Breeze is in the area, I get in as much as I can, but she is so pushy that we don't get much in except a couple positioning successes before all play breaks out.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

I swear by the dowels and once they understand.. it makes them that much more driven to the upright if they like retrieving. Have fun with it!


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Is the dowel in the picture? I feel like I'm looking at one of those ""find the hidden picture"" things....because I don't see it!

I assume your ""I put it up in the house last night. We alternated between retrieving and sitting. I like it."" is about retrieving the dowel and not the gate? (..... Griffin has tried to bring back the gates more than once. Our retrieve is too generalized!!)


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Oh no, the picture is just showing how I made the stanchion stand up by itself without the gates. I've been wanting to do that for a year now and finally got around to trying it last night. 

Michelle, do you know anyone that uses the clear tubing instead of the dowels? The one benefit I could see of the tubing over the dowels is I could play tug with the tubing. But I might be missing a downside to it. I might order some and just see which one we like better.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Loisiana said:


> Oh no, the picture is just showing how I made the stanchion stand up by itself without the gates. I've been wanting to do that for a year now and finally got around to trying it last night.
> 
> Michelle, do you know anyone that uses the clear tubing instead of the dowels? The one benefit I could see of the tubing over the dowels is I could play tug with the tubing. But I might be missing a downside to it. I might order some and just see which one we like better.


No but you can throw the dowel after the front and let them get it. Jodie in all honesty Titan is so excited to be able to "get it" that in itself is enough. I use the plastic dowel because they can't mouth it and have to concentrate to hold it..So dual purpose training...LOL!When we complete the finish I will hold it out in front of me(away from my body) to let him jump.leap for it...(Warning also keep your fingers out of the way)


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

OK. I'm intrigued by this dowel technique. Will somebody (*cough*Jodi*cough*) video it. I'm not sure I totally "get" what you're doing? Is the dowel just placed out like instead of a cookie as a target, but b/c it's a clear dowel, it's harder to see from the beginning so it's easier to fade?

Show me!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Until I can actually get around to videotaping it, here is the picture Michelle posted in another thread.

I've seen a lot of people here use wooden dowels or clear tubing. Never saw the two ideas put together as a clear dowel until Michelle said that's how she does it. But yes, it's pretty much the same idea as sending the dog to get the cookie as far as run and grab it unless I tell you otherwise. With it being tucked up against the upright it makes it impossible to see across the ring. I've also seen people tuck them under mats with just a little bit sticking out of the end.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I just realized that living out in California you probably don't train to stanchions, but I'm sure it would still work well just putting it at the end of the ring on the ground. 

(I'm happy to live in baby gate land! LOL)


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

FlyingQuizini said:


> OK. I'm intrigued by this dowel technique. Will somebody (*cough*Jodi*cough*) video it. I'm not sure I totally "get" what you're doing? Is the dowel just placed out like instead of a cookie as a target, but b/c it's a clear dowel, it's harder to see from the beginning so it's easier to fade?
> 
> Show me!


Yes and the great thing is you never really have to fade.. You can use those forever in training and run through's. The only issue I have ever had is of all the times I have shown in Utility he has only not heard the sit command twice and tried to "find" the dowel. I have never (knocking on wood) ever had him pull up short. He is driving to the upright everytime..
It's just what I use that works for us..


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

And I posted these pictures a long time ago, but since it fits in a training go-outs thread I'll repost them. I stick treats in the pouch and put it at the top of the upright, on the side, where the gate helps hold it in position. Dog retrieves pouch and brings it to me to get treats out. It's hard to see anyway since it's on the side, but I also try to use the same color as whatever I'm working on - gray pouches when working on a fence, blue when working with painted stanchions, etc.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

I think I need a video.  I'm intrigued by this.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Loisiana said:


> And I posted these pictures a long time ago, but since it fits in a training go-outs thread I'll repost them. I stick treats in the pouch and put it at the top of the upright, on the side, where the gate helps hold it in position. Dog retrieves pouch and brings it to me to get treats out. It's hard to see anyway since it's on the side, but I also try to use the same color as whatever I'm working on - gray pouches when working on a fence, blue when working with painted stanchions, etc.


So what exactly are you working with when you bust out the pretty pink pouches? 

As for stanchions vs. ring poles... MOST of our trials are ring poles, but there have been enough stanchions turning up lately that more and more local peeps are running out to buy at at least enough gates/stanchions to line one end of the ring for training. I'm currently trying to find a used set. Those suckers ain't cheap!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Titan1 said:


> Yes and the great thing is you never really have to fade.. You can use those forever in training and run through's. The only issue I have ever had is of all the times I have shown in Utility he has only not heard the sit command twice and tried to "find" the dowel. I have never (knocking on wood) ever had him pull up short. He is driving to the upright everytime..
> It's just what I use that works for us..


OK. Cool. Interesting about the searching. I'm working through what I'm told is just a phase right now -- that Quiz will turn and sit when I call him off the food target, but wants to buzz the target (and steal the treat) when I call for him to take the jump. He's so totally toy motivated, I suspect he might do that with a dowel/toy as well. I've still not been seriously training go-outs long enough to declare the food searching a "problem" yet; I'm hoping the person I train with is right and that it's just a phase - part of the learning process.

I know it's what keeps several people away from this technique, but I've also seen it work for several others. And like I've said before, since he's the first dog I've trained to Utility, I feel like I need to stick with one technique (at least until it's proven to be a standing problem and not a phase) and then decide how I'd like to work differently (perhaps with a future dog) once I know more about all the possible techniques.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

FlyingQuizini said:


> OK. Cool. Interesting about the searching. I'm working through what I'm told is just a phase right now -- that Quiz will turn and sit when I call him off the food target, but wants to buzz the target (and steal the treat) when I call for him to take the jump. He's so totally toy motivated, I suspect he might do that with a dowel/toy as well. I've still not been seriously training go-outs long enough to declare the food searching a "problem" yet; I'm hoping the person I train with is right and that it's just a phase - part of the learning process.
> 
> I know it's what keeps several people away from this technique, but I've also seen it work for several others. And like I've said before, since he's the first dog I've trained to Utility, I feel like I need to stick with one technique (at least until it's proven to be a standing problem and not a phase) and then decide how I'd like to work differently (perhaps with a future dog) once I know more about all the possible techniques.


I hear you totally. Titan is my 1st dog I have ever trained to Utility. I thought we would never "get it". That is why we work through everything and don't switch training..


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Just curious how many of you train your dog to keep their eyes locked on their mark and how many of you allow your dog to look away once they've marked on go-outs? Anyone who doesn't mark their dog at all before they send?


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Loisiana said:


> Just curious how many of you train your dog to keep their eyes locked on their mark and how many of you allow your dog to look away once they've marked on go-outs? Anyone who doesn't mark their dog at all before they send?


This is an ongoing problem of mine in both field and go-outs--I want her to look out steadily before sending and she does good sometimes. She will go whether looking or not...(I was hoping sending her even if she didn't look would help her start looking more, but it hasn't)


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I train so that they lock on before being sent. No lock, no send.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Sunrise said:


> I train so that they lock on before being sent. No lock, no send.


That's what I'm doing with Flip. Since I had never done utility with my other dogs when I trained them I didn't understand why it made a difference if they locked on as long as they ended up in the right place still. Experience makes you so much more aware of how important the little details are!


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Both for field and obedience.... I don't know how to cue him to look appropriately... or teach the concept. I can tell if he's looking too left or too right... but I don't know how to tell if he's looking at something too close or too far away. I have a few training plans for how to theoretically train a dog to look at something nearer/further but none seem like very strong training plans. The concept of near/far seems really difficult to me!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

RedDogs said:


> Both for field and obedience.... I don't know how to cue him to look appropriately... or teach the concept. I can tell if he's looking too left or too right... but I don't know how to tell if he's looking at something too close or too far away. I have a few training plans for how to theoretically train a dog to look at something nearer/further but none seem like very strong training plans. The concept of near/far seems really difficult to me!


If you can, go to some obedience trials and watch the Utility dogs. You will see a good portion of the dogs lock. It is hard to explain but when the dog 'locks' it is almost as if a string is attached to their nose and they follow your line. There is then an intentness and my dogs usually lower the heads a bit and their ears come forward. When you see it, you know what it is but it is hard to explain.

I initially train with food and start just a few feet away. I might heel, about turn, drop some food (behind me as I am turning), heel a few steps,turn and face with their full attention on me. If they lose attention, we heel some more.

When I halt, my hand comes down for the mark, which is their cue to switch from handler focus to object focus; when they lock I send. From the very beginning, if they don't lock, they don't get sent. BTW: It is trained for a straight line, the pivots are what gets you and the dog into proper position. Make sure the dogs head and spine are both straight to the object being sent to.


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## wakemup (Feb 6, 2011)

Griffy always locked onto his go out target when I told him to "look". I used food on the target (ring stanchion) to teach him and he was very honest about it. My hand at my side means look at what you are supposed to go to. My hand centered over my waist means look at me. Tate will mark his go out, but then "shops around" with his head. It makes me crazy. He does beautiful go outs once he's sent, so I have let him do this. We have had enough "failing moments" in utility to overcome on our journey. He actually seems insulted when I correct him for moving his gaze off the target, so it is not a battle I have chosen to wage at this time. To me the perfect picture IS to have the dog lock and then go.


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