# We got ripped off by a breeder......:(



## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm so sorry, but I'm glad Noel has you! I don't have much advice on how to handle this, but I'm sure someone can assist you. We had breeder issues and my Vet told me if I didn't want to give Shadow back, there really wasn't much we could do. I do think I would contact the BB though.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I doubt he belongs to the AKC or GRC but you can report him to them.
So sorry this happened to you.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Did he promise you "papers" for this dog?


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Do you have any recent photos of this pup? The ones I saw that you posted sure looks like a Golden. What was there about the coat that made you think it was not a Golden? I am not doubting you, but I would not have expected anything from the photos I saw.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Were you promised papers? If so, that might give you some legal outlet since he won't be able to provide them if she isn't purebred (I guess). I've only ever gotten rescues so don't know much about breeders. I hope you find a way to make him pay some at least.
she sure if pretty though!


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## lea Noel (Jan 14, 2009)

We asked about papers several times, and he said he would get them for us.....should have been a tip off, but hindsight is 20/20 right.......She is listed in our contract as a Golden Retriever, and yes, we totally thought she looked like a retreiver too......until now, 

I will have to get some more recent pics, but her tail is curled up over her back, and her "new coat" is quite curly, beyond what I have seen as regular retriever curl.....and her face is "fluffy" now, defiently looks like a Golden Doodle to me........


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## Auenk9 (Oct 23, 2008)

Hi,

Like Hank...I am certainly not doubting you....but I just went and looked at the pics of Noel..and she sure looks like a Golden Retriever puppy to me(?) What other breeds of dogs does the breeder have on his premises? A lot of goldens or maybe I should say most goldens go through a gangly stage...where they lose their puppy coat and look a little "questionable!" However, I suppose if he is admitting to her NOT being a Golden...then something MUST be up! Where you given a pedigree prior to the purchase? Who was he claiming at the time of the purchase where her sire and dam and which registry is he affiliated with? Sorry for all the questions....but they are the questions I would be asking him and myself. If he said you were to receive AKC papers...then you definitely can report him!


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## cmichele (Jan 16, 2009)

Oh man. I'm so sorry you got screwed over.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Where's the thread with pictures? Can't seem to find it...


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

I would be furious too. I do think you have a claim with the Better Business Bureau or a similar entity. You signed a contract and it was made null and void by the pup not being as advertised. I would think that you could get financial compensation and keep the pup. He perpetrated a fraud upon you. I guess it depends on the laws in your State. I looked at your photos and she does look all Golden to me too. What is the other Breed he has that he thinks mated with the mother of this litter? Do you have recent pics? Sorry this has happened to you.


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## Auenk9 (Oct 23, 2008)

Some golden retrievers have what is called a "gay tail." Tails will hook and/or curl over the back. Not something breeders breed for....it is not in the standard and to be faulted for sure....but does not necessarily mean it is NOT a golden retriever.


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Where's the thread with pictures? Can't seem to find it...


click on 'images' under her post #'s


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## Auenk9 (Oct 23, 2008)

Click on her profile name....


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

The way the fur is coming in on his face, it looks like terrier. Im sorry the breeder wasnt truthful.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Wow, you could have fooled me. She looks like an adorable golden pup in the pictures I have seen. Maybe he is a sloppy breeder and has no clue who the mom was bred with.


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## cham (Feb 21, 2008)

What other kinds of dogs did this "so-called" breeder have on site? If you know that you might be able to figure who the sire was. If you have a contract, you might have a case in small claims, but the outcome isnt guaranteed.


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## Spun Gold (Nov 4, 2008)

The BBB is a useless organization. Businesses can subscribe to their service and get a favorable rating.

IF your dog is 'registered' then you can contact the AKC. Explain what the gentleman did. They will investigate his records. If they found them to have irregularities he can be fined and suspended.

You can also take him to small claims court and get a refund of a portion of your purchase price.

This is an unexcusable situation. He should have contacted each and every person and gave them all of their money back except $100 which is what a mixed breed from the shelter would cost. He should also demand the registration papers back. 

Accidental breedings do occur...usually though they are purebred with only a worry about which dog is the sire. DNA testing is available in those situations.

If I were you I would pursue it. You do not have to give up your dog. Take him to small claims court.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

lea Noel said:


> We asked about papers several times, and he said he would get them for us.....should have been a tip off, but hindsight is 20/20 right.......She is listed in our contract as a Golden Retriever, and yes, we totally thought she looked like a retreiver too......until now,
> 
> I will have to get some more recent pics, but her tail is curled up over her back, and her "new coat" is quite curly, beyond what I have seen as regular retriever curl.....and her face is "fluffy" now, defiently looks like a Golden Doodle to me........


 
Well I would definetly contact the AKC that this breeder sold you a dog under false pretenses, provided those were the "papers" you were promised. Let them know that you have the contract that states he was selling you a "Golden Retriever" and you paid for a "pure bred" dog not a mixed breed. I would also contact my local newspaper, bet they would love to write a story. 
And from your discription it does sound like it may be a Goldendoodle. Does the breeder sell these also?


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## lea Noel (Jan 14, 2009)

Yes, he does sell Golden Doodles as well, again should have been a clue, hindsight again, and yes, he claims that the father is now, a standard poodle, however, he doesn't know which one. He said it must have jumped the fence. 

I did contact Better Business, and they said his offer to take the puppy back and replace it would suffice a resolution for them. And yes, like I said, I kept telling myself she was Golden, because I had read about the Gay tail, curly coat, etc... I am working on getting those new pics up..........thanks for the support guys.....I hope I don't have to leave this forum, as we know for sure that Mom is a Golden......so she is at least half......

I think this guy just makes stuff up though, he probably had no intentions of giving us papers, and thought that by calling them papers, he could then later claim he was talking about Vet papers or something......

You just feel so stupid.....ya know......


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

I'm so sorry to hear about this. This is fraud! 

Your pup is adorable, but it does look like her muzzle area is a little too full. I think we'd all love to see pics of her no matter what. :heartbeat What a cutie!


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

I looked at the pictures and at 8 weeks she certainly looks like a golden puppy to me too. I'm sorry your breeder won't return your money. I'm glad you plan on keeping her and giving her a good home.


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## jwemt81 (Aug 20, 2008)

I just went ahead and looked at the pictures and that definitely looks like a doodle to me with that curly fur. I'm so sorry you're going through this. I would report this to anyone who will listen. What a horrible breeder. They should not be allowed to breed, let alone own any animals!


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

lea Noel said:


> You just feel so stupid.....ya know......


 
WHY??? :doh:
Because some SOB took advantage of your trusting nature? 
Don't feel stupid. If the breeder has a website or advertises his pups as AKC pups contact the AKC at *Investigations and Inspections:* 
phone: (919) 816-3629
fax: (919) 816-4245 
Will they do anything? Probably not. But I would make the breeder aware you are contacting them. As others stated accidental breedings can occur but to know and not notify the puppy owners should not be allowed to go unpunished in some way. 
And I have been neglectful in stating that your sweet girl is so lucky to have you. And no one will chase you from here (GRF) we love all "dog" lovers.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Can you take him to small claims court? I think a court would understand why you would not "return' the pup.

Your puppy is a sweety. I'd be interested in knowing the other breed. Does he breed anything beside goldens?


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## lea Noel (Jan 14, 2009)

Here are pics of her today at about 3 and half months, sure looks Doodle to me! But hey, she is our Doodle now, and we love her. I was so against Doodles, so maybe she was meant to find us, and give her a loving home so she could teach us Doodle acceptance?!?!? He he he

Not sure I know how to do this right, so sorry if they are huge or tiny....


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## EddieME (Nov 25, 2007)

I can see how she won your heart! pretty girl


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

lea Noel said:


> But hey, she is our Doodle now, and we love her. I was so against Doodles, so maybe she was meant to find us,


Good for you!! Noel is an adorable LUCKY girl to have you!
That first photo is SO SPECIAL!!


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## Wilson's REAL Mom (Nov 10, 2006)

Whoops! Looks like a doodle to me! But...a cute doodle, I must admit. Sorry you've been treated so badly.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Bless her heart.... and yours too. I hope you do find some avenue to make sure that someone else doesn't get "mislead" like you did. However, your sweetie is adorable and I am so glad she has found a loving, accepting home. Give her an ear rub from her new friends in Dallas.


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## Spun Gold (Nov 4, 2008)

lea Noel said:


> Yes, he does sell Golden Doodles as well, again should have been a clue, hindsight again, and yes, he claims that the father is now, a standard poodle, however, he doesn't know which one. He said it must have jumped the fence.
> 
> I did contact Better Business, and they said his offer to take the puppy back and replace it would suffice a resolution for them. And yes, like I said, I kept telling myself she was Golden, because I had read about the Gay tail, curly coat, etc... I am working on getting those new pics up..........thanks for the support guys.....I hope I don't have to leave this forum, as we know for sure that Mom is a Golden......so she is at least half......
> 
> ...


OK at the risk of being blasted here....You walked right into this. How could you think he was a reputable breeder??? 

Purebred Golden Retriever breeders DO NOT dabble in doodles. 

As soon as you found that out you should have turned on your heels and walked away. Sorry the more details that come out...the more I think you should just love her for the rest of her life. You had to know going into this place that this was a possibility....:doh:


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Spun Gold said:


> OK at the risk of being blasted here....You walked right into this. How could you think he was a reputable breeder???
> 
> Purebred Golden Retriever breeders DO NOT dabble in doodles.
> 
> As soon as you found that out you should have turned on your heels and walked away. Sorry the more details that come out...the more I think you should just love her for the rest of her life. You had to know going into this place that this was a possibility....:doh:


 
Wow that is a LITTLE harsh don't you think?
But I guess your very first dog was a purebred dog from a responsible breeder!!


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## lea Noel (Jan 14, 2009)

I appreciate what your saying, but you also have to understand that this is the first puppy that we have ever purchased.......we thought we were doing our best......not everyone can be as educated in dog breeding, AKC, show dogs, protocal etc. HOw would I know that PURE Golden Breeders do not also Breed Doodles, they are everywhere right now. We were just a family looking for a Golden Retriever to love. I was not and am not a breeder, or show dog owner. 

I never claimed to be totally innocent. I said that obviously hindsight was 20/20 and that we should have seen it coming, but again, having this be our first puppy purchasing experience, we were just that, un experienced. 

That however does not take away from our disappointment and we of course WILL love her for the rest of her life.

AND no we did not KNOW this could have been a possibility. 

Perhaps I should have never posted.


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

She is beautiful. I have 3 so called "mutts" and 1 pure bred and love them all the same. The breeder is a jerk but your doodle will be the perfect pup for you.


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## RummysMum (Jan 9, 2009)

First, I think she is adorable. Very precious puppy, and while I wouldn't pick out a Golden Doodle for our family, I secretly think they are simply PRECIOUS. :

Now... personally? I would take him to small claims court. You pay for a purebred dog, you deserve a refund, if at least partial. The typical fees for small claims court is $80. If you have your contract and paperwork, you would win. Filing a claim for small claims court is as easy as going to to the courthouse and filling out the needed papers, waiting a few months then telling the judge your story and presenting and documents you may have. Tell the judge you are looking for a partial refund but want to keep the dog as your children and family are now attached, but were scammed into purchasing something that you didn't get. You didn't pay for a mutt, you paid for a purebred. The cost should be adjusted accordingly.

This "breeder" should be held accountable and the best place to make somebody accountable is through their wallet.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I am speechless that such a thing could happen to you, and also sympathize with your predicament. That is your puppy you've raised and how could you not love that cute face? You should get a lawyer to write a cold, threatening letter asking for the purchase price back. If your state has a good lemon law, you are set. Do you mind sharing the web site of this guy with us?


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## New Golden Mom (Dec 17, 2008)

I'm sorry this has happened to you. That is one adorable little girl you have there....such a sweet little face.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

If you do take it to small claims court, whether or not it's true, you should also state that you purchased the pup with the intention of competing in AKC events such as rally, agility, obedience, etc. 
A mixed breed puppy is not allowed to compete in AKC events, therefore, you can claim you've been totally ripped off from the purpose of buying the dog.
Meanwhile, your dog is adorable and you will love her to pieces! She probably got the best part of the golden and the best part of the poodle, and you will have a wonderful companion!


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## jaireen (Feb 25, 2008)

am so sorry for what happened to you...that is horrible....

noel is soo cute...i love the first pic...she look so innocent and sweet.....maybe one of these days you could get a golden pup as sister/brother to her...


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

lea Noel said:


> I appreciate what your saying, but you also have to understand that this is the first puppy that we have ever purchased.......we thought we were doing our best......not everyone can be as educated in dog breeding, AKC, show dogs, protocal etc. HOw would I know that PURE Golden Breeders do not also Breed Doodles, they are everywhere right now. We were just a family looking for a Golden Retriever to love. I was not and am not a breeder, or show dog owner.
> 
> I never claimed to be totally innocent. I said that obviously hindsight was 20/20 and that we should have seen it coming, but again, having this be our first puppy purchasing experience, we were just that, un experienced.
> 
> ...


And you did much more then I to try insure your first dog was coming from a responsible breeder than I. I got mine from a pet store who purchesed her from a puppy mill in the mid-west. And it was the best "mistake" I ever made. I would do it all over again for not for her I probably would not be typeing this right now. 
Take care and please hang around with us!!


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## Spun Gold (Nov 4, 2008)

AmbikaGR said:


> Wow that is a LITTLE harsh don't you think?
> But I guess your very first dog was a purebred dog from a responsible breeder!!


 
Actually yes my very first dog was from a VERY responsible breeder. 24 years ago. Meadowpond Goldens. 

I did my research. 

Sorry if you think that was harsh. But there is SO MUCH discussion on what, who and where to avoid and so much information available today between the AKC or OTHER registries...the Internet, this forum is another GREAT source...Any Veterinarian, a local Kennel Club...or even a Training club, where you will find at least a dozen Goldens on any given day...

Some people put more thought into a big screen TV than they do a pet that will be with them for 10-15 years. 

It just makes me mad to hear someone complain they got ripped off, when she knew he had Goldendoodles on the grounds...She is right, he should have been more forthright.

With that being said. She is absolutely adorable puppu and she will make a very fine pet. I love all dogs I don't care what breed or mix they are.

I just think that recourse is probably not likely since the signs were there what this man was all about...she just chose not to see them.


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## LOVEisGOLDEN (Jan 4, 2008)

so sorry you are going through this! Noel is lucky to have you & (even though I'm against them...) she is darn cute! she has a great smile, enjoy her.


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## jealous1 (Dec 7, 2007)

Noel is absolutely charming and I can see why she has won your hearts! And please, do not let the post of one run you away. I for one am looking forward to more pics of Noel as she grows and to hear stories of her antics (she looks like she could be just a little mischevious from the twinkle in her eyes?!)--keep 'em coming!


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I think we all learn as we go along. I know I've learned a TON in the 16 months I've been on the forum. When we are ready for another pup, we will certainly go about it in a completely different way. At the time, we thought we were really on top of things and were taking advice from our vet. That being said, I wouldn't trade my girls for anything... I love them with all my heart. You did the best you could with what you knew at the time. Love her, enjoy her, and go on ( once you deal with the moron breeder). I hope you'll stay around and let us watch her grow up.


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## Augie's Mom (Sep 28, 2007)

I'm sorry that this happened to you and you should not regret posting here or asking questions. I believe our dogs come to us for a reason and this little girl chose you. 
Enjoy her, she is a real cutie pie!


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

lea Noel 
New Member
{{thanks for the support guys.....I hope I don't have to leave this forum, as we know for sure that Mom is a Golden......so she is at least half......}}
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
lea Noel, Why do you think you'd have to leave the Forum? Of course you're welcome here. Some members are without dogs right now, that's fine. Just because she's a Doodle, which I think are simply adorable dogs, doesn't mean you can't hang out here with us and tell us all about your Doodle Girl  We want more pics, stories, videos if you got 'em, and we'll be here to share your puppy good day brags, your puppy bad day tales, and your worried days when she's not feeling very well. I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say we look forward to it. Of course you can stay:wavey:


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Definitely a Doodle-but she is just adorable!


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## skeller (Mar 5, 2008)

So you now, unintentionally, have a "designer dog". My daughter came home with a Cavachon pup, Cavalier / Bichon mix. I was not happy, would have rather seen a Cavalier, since she was looking for a small dog. This little cutie pie has definitely won my heart. She a sweetie pie, and she holds her own with our Big Benny. Things just work out the way they do, and if you have a sweet, loving dog, you're blessed.


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## Faith's mommy (Feb 26, 2007)

this is a tough lesson, but i'm so glad that she has a happy home with you in spite of her dubious start.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

She's beautiful! I'm glad you have fallen in love with her. I understand your frustration and your anger and would never have a problem with you posting on the forum. 

I don't think members would ever chase off a GoldenDoodle owner, but what a valuable lesson this is. I remember members asking why people would pay for designer dogs and look at your situation. 

I'd take her in a heartbeat!


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Spun Gold said:


> Actually yes my very first dog was from a VERY responsible breeder. 24 years ago. Meadowpond Goldens.
> 
> I did my research.
> 
> ...


So in your eyes the average person looking for their first dog should b able to decifer all the propaganda in the media about "Designer Breeds". The fact that the AKC does NOTHING to stop folks who breed and register purebred dogs with them to also breed and sell "designer dogs". When the PRESIDENT of the United states is giving serious consideration to a "ddoodle". The internet is filled with as much misinformation as it is information unfortunately. Go ahead and search the internet you will find many breeders who sell "purebred" and "designer" dogs and just as many "reasons" why a mixed breed is better. Hell even the AKC has entertained the idea of allowing mixed breeds to compete in performance events, a little confusing to even me. A vet is more likely to lead to a BYB than a responsible breeder in my experience. And when a breeder gives you a contract stating he is selling you a purebred dog to you.
You really feel a first time puppy person should "KNOW" better? I think it is to an extent just as hard today as it was 20 years ago. 



lea Noel said:


> We thought we did everything right.....we asked for references, we asked around, a good friend of ours had a great experience there, we visited ahead of time, had a contract, with all the right things, health gaurantees, non breeding agreement, etc. etc. it all sound okay........


Sounds to me they put more thought into this than the "big screen TV" you referred to.


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## Waggily Tail (Jan 11, 2009)

Yes, put the word out about this so-called breeder and ruin his reputation. People will read about your experience and learn from it. Bottom line, Noel is simply adorable with lots of personality. You are all lucky to have found each other.


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

I am so sorry to hear what happened to you! I am so appalled the breeder treated you in that manner!

But, my goodness, Noel is a cutie for sure!!!!


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## lea Noel (Jan 14, 2009)

Spun Gold said:


> Actually yes my very first dog was from a VERY responsible breeder. 24 years ago. Meadowpond Goldens.
> 
> I did my research.
> 
> ...


The last remark I will make about this.......

Perhaps it was not clear during my other posts.......this has nothing to do with money. I have no plans to take this to court either, because here in BC it is quite expensive, and it would not be worth it in the end. My only goal is to find ways that I can "out" this guy so that he will not screw someone else over like he did us. 

Because I do believe that there are many, many, well meaning people out there like me, who feel that they have done their research, and felt that they had found what they thought was a decent place to buy a puppy. 

You make judgment on me and my family without knowing the facts. I spent over 2 mths doing research online, and through the community. I checked all of the websites, including AKC, CKC and talked to local vets and others who had purchased puppies there as well. I asked all the questions I was told to ask, I had a written contract that had all the elements I was told to look for, and so we went ahead.

I am not the type of person who would spend more time looking for a big screen TV than a family campanion, and I resent that you implied I was. I did not purchase from a pet store, I contacted the SPCA prior to making the purchase and the whole process was full of forethought and research.

Obviously yes, we screwed up, but that doesn't make it okay to let this guy continue. I am accepting that we got screwed and lost our money, but that doesn't mean I have to sit back and let this happen to someone else.

I am glad that you have never had to deal with a situation like this. Sorry that I have. I guess we all can't be perfect puppy purchasers like yourself!


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## lea Noel (Jan 14, 2009)

To everyone else thanks for the support! We love her and that is all that matters at the end of the day!


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I think you'll find very few perfect puppy purchasers here with their first ( or subsequent puppies). I hope you'll stay around. I admire that you are going to try to prevent someone else from being ripped off the way you were. This is a CARING forum that loves dogs. Many of us have different breeds, mixes. This is a wonderful forum for SUPPORT and knowledge. There are many very knowledgeable people that are very patient in sharing with those of us who are still learning. I will repeat... I sure hope you stay around and get to know us.... I'd love to watch your baby grow.


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## Scarletts_Daddy (Sep 4, 2008)

OMG She is cute. Be proud to be a doggie parent despite her not being wexactly what you wanted dont feel duped. All that matter is she found a good home with good loving people to protect and love her. 
Also I will say I'm appauled at how some people have responded to this thread. I'd like to thank those people that stood up to said behavior. Thank you. 


- Brandon


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Noel's Mom, I have made mistakes every time I have purchsed a golden apparently, from things I have learned since coming here. Would I change it for a million bucks? NO!
I have had goldens for 35 years =5 goldens. Each new pup we researched more, contacted the GRCA for ethical breeders and still got a dog with hypothyroid, uveitis and anxiety issues! Do I love him? Of course!! He is my baby!!!
Maybe next time we will get it right... who knows - I am only human. I hope next time doesn't come too soon as my babies are almost 10 and almost 6.

I think your baby is so cute and her sweet face is so full of love! Welcome to the forum! We all feel for you.

And Hank, I LOVE YOU!!!!!! You DEAR SWEET MAN! And you can tell your wife I said so!


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Debles said:


> Noel's Mom, I have made mistakes every time I have purchsed a golden apparently from things I have learned since coming here. Would I change it for a million bucks? NO!
> I have had goldens for 35 years =5 goldens. Each new pup we researched more, contacted the GRCA for ethical breeders and still got a dog with hypothyroid, uveitis and anxiety issues! Do I love him? Of course!! He is my baby!!!
> Maybe next time we will get it right... who knows - I am only human. I hope next time doesn't come too soon as my babies are almost 10 and almost 6.
> 
> ...



Well said Deb.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

lea Noel said:


> To everyone else thanks for the support! We love her and that is all that matters at the end of the day!


Just read through all the posts on this thread. So sorry you had to deal with this breeder, after you did do more homework than most people do, but your little girl is cute cute cute

PS I read books and researched getting a dog for years, so thought I "knew everything" to ask and do when getting a dog from a breeder. But, then my son just looked in the paper and found a golden for sale and brought Brooks home to me. End of story.


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## DUSTYRD2 (Feb 28, 2007)

Lea Noel
First of all Noel is just darling and I'm sure your family loves her very much. I'm sorry this has happened to you.
Small claims costs in BC are less than $100, I file claims for my employer. I know it's not about the money for you, but this scumbag needs to be stopped. 
As a member of the Golden Retriever Club of BC and about to join the executive team, I would really like to know who this "breeder" is. Would you PM me his/her name and details if you don't feel comfortable posting it publicly. I want to make sure they are NOT a member of our club and never will be!! If I can be of assistance at all let me know.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Thanks Judie! That was great of you!


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

I'm sorry you went through this and I totally understand your anger. Your girl is precious and I look forward to hearing more about her in the future.


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

At least you thought you were getting a pure bred. I purposely got a golden / lab mix.....a big no no to some. 

Give her a big hug and a kiss.


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## Spun Gold (Nov 4, 2008)

AmbikaGR said:


> So in your eyes the average person looking for their first dog should b able to decifer all the propaganda in the media about "Designer Breeds". *Yes we manage to do it with all sorts of topics...*The fact that the AKC does NOTHING to stop folks who breed and register purebred dogs with them to also breed and sell "designer dogs". When the PRESIDENT of the United states is giving serious consideration to a "ddoodle". *Look we live in a free enterprise country, what the guy did is NOT illegal. He has a right to breed dogs there is no law that says they have to be purebred. The AKC is NOT a governing body, they are a registry. They would have no jurisdiction over this or any other person breeding x-d breeds.*The internet is filled with as much misinformation as it is information unfortunately. Go ahead and search the internet you will find many breeders who sell "purebred" and "designer" dogs and just as many "reasons" why a mixed breed is better. Hell even the AKC has entertained the idea of allowing mixed breeds to compete in performance events, a little confusing to even me. *I do not nor does anyone I know support mixed breed registries. Ultimately it is about the survival of the AKC and I believe to allow that type of registry is a severe compromise of everything they stand for. *A vet is more likely to lead to a BYB than a responsible breeder in my experience. *I can't speak for all vets but the ones in our area have a Breeders Directory published by a large kennel club, they require that you jump through few hoops prior to being able to be listed. The AKC and the Golden Retriever parent club have a breeders directory as well. *And when a breeder gives you a contract stating he is selling you a purebred dog to you.*Contracts are only as good as the integrity of the breeder.*
> You really feel a first time puppy person should "KNOW" better? I think it is to an extent just as hard today as it was 20 years ago.
> *I know the messages can be convoluted and as confusing as the medicare part D...BUT if a person Googles Golden Retriever Breeders the 2nd link is the AKC, the 3rd link is Goldenretrievers.org a virtual PLETHORA of reputable breeders...*
> 
> ...


*I was being sarcastic but I think you get my point, its not that hard to find a good breeder...*


I understand that she is disappointed in being duped I would be furious. I think she is an adorable puppy and I have no doubt that she will continue to have a long and wonderful life with that pup. Its unfortunate she did not recognize all the red flags in front of her.

And I never said she should not post on this forum.


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

Wow, this is the reason I stopped coming here. *I'm done now!!* We are running off good people because they are not as "educated" as some of you think they should be. I certainly wouldn't ever want to come back if I was treated like this.


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## PeanutsMom (Oct 14, 2007)

lea Noel said:


> To everyone else thanks for the support! We love her and that is all that matters at the end of the day!


If you happen to come back please know that, whatever turns out to be added to your golden pup, most of us here really hope you hang around and post lots of pics of your beauty.


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## GRZ (Dec 4, 2008)

Spun Gold said:


> I just think that recourse is probably not likely since the signs were there what this man was all about...she just chose not to see them.


I TOTALLY disagree with this. This is NOT the OP's fault. She has a contract. If the contract states that the breeder was selling her a purebred Golden Retriever then that's what she should have gotten. Not as a trade-in but in the FIRST place.

Simple contractual law. Period. This poster would win her case hands down and probably get a large if not full refund.

A pretty little girl you have there OP. Take that idiot to court. He would probably end up paying the court costs as well.


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

Lea Noel,
I'm so sorry you had that experience! Your puppy is soo adorable though. She has a very sweet face. If you did want to try to get the word out about that horrible breeder, you could post something on RipOffReport.com about your experience with him. That way if someone does a google search on the breeder, it should come up. 
Robin


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## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

I think Noel is just beautiful! Sorry that happened to you..but I think your pup is sooo cute and you love her and in the end..thats a wonderful thing..and I think that the "breeder" should be outed. He should have told all of you.
Please dont leave this forum...I bought a golden off the internet..the "breeder" Im sure was not agood breeder...he brought Misty to us..and left..did give us her "papers" but I wanted health info..never got it, wanted to see pictures of the Mom & Dad,,never sent us any pictures...never did anything he said he would..just dropped Misty off at 10 weeks and was gone..we paid $900 for her...shes a golden, but she could have any number of issues..we just dont know....but we love her and shes part of our family and thats that. Just love your sweet pup and she will surely love you! I think shes beautiful!!


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Spun Gold said:


> *I was being sarcastic but I think you get my point, its not that hard to find a good breeder...*
> 
> 
> I understand that she is disappointed in being duped I would be furious. I think she is an adorable puppy and I have no doubt that she will continue to have a long and wonderful life with that pup. Its unfortunate she did not recognize all the red flags in front of her.
> ...


You are coming across very mean-spirited. I did much much worse then the op and I would not have felt welcome here if I was met with these types of judgemental posts that merely show contempt for the "ignorant" and not much else.


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## FranH (May 8, 2005)

lea Noel....

I'm so happy you posted your story here. By letting this type of situation known, you have alerted other potential puppy buyers of the problems that can occur. 

She is adorable!


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

Welcome to the forum 

Noel is a doll! I bet in years to come, she'll be the best dog you've ever owned. And I fully agree with the contractual law comment...you had a contract, the breeder was negligent and he was wrong. He knew it; it probably happens more than you know. And I would talk with DustyRd and have her do some research for you; sounds like a great resource to get the word out on his negligent breeding practices.

Please stay around GRF and share Noel's life with us. And forget about the bad apples.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Spun Gold said:


> *I was being sarcastic but I think you get my point, its not that hard to find a good breeder...*


No I REALLY DO NOT get your point! 
Do you know what you need to do to be listed on the AKC breeder referral listing?
Well here are the requirements directly off the AKC website

_*Who is eligible to list a litter on the AKC website?* 
Breeders who:
1) Are in good standing with the AKC.
2) Have a currently registered AKC litter.
3) Agree to provide new owners with AKC papers._ 

Guess it would sure be hard for a less than reputable breeder to advertise a litter there. :doh:

And what the guy did is definetly not legal. He breached his contract. 
And the AKC needs to live up to it's mission statement and not "endorse" mixed breeds. 
And you know what a breeder like this does. They give ALL breeders a bad reputation. It would even make some "educated" people wonder what they might get from a breeder who breeds Goldens, Cockers and Vizslas or any other combination of different purebred dogs.


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## Tailer'sFolks (Feb 27, 2007)

She's a Doodle, but what a Cute Face! Looks like she has a Spirit too. We have two Golden Doodle playmates and they are really great dogs. Love to be Loved, Smart...quick learners, love to lean on ya...Noel will be a Joy! Maybe in a few months or Years you can add a Golden and they can be bestest Buddy's!

I agree, you got burned and I hope you can find a way to stop this dog maker from selling something not as documented. What a ScumBag!

Some comments here can be biting, read them and let them go...Others offer support and help pass on good information. I hope you don't leave...I really will enjoy watching Noel grow and will be anxiously awaiting Puppy Tails.


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## buckeyegoldenmom (Oct 5, 2008)

lea Noel said:


> Here are pics of her today at about 3 and half months, sure looks Doodle to me! But hey, she is our Doodle now, and we love her. I was so against Doodles, so maybe she was meant to find us, and give her a loving home so she could teach us Doodle acceptance?!?!? He he he
> 
> Not sure I know how to do this right, so sorry if they are huge or tiny....


Noel looks like a sweetheart. Shame on the breeder but I am glad she has you.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Ok, your puppy is TOTALLY ADORABLE!

You really did nothing wrong in this situation! You did your homework, and this creep deliberately misrepresented the litter of puppies and lied to you. You really should announce his name and kennel name right here so the people who come to this board looking for information about finding a breeder don't get duped by him too.

Please don't let one less than pleasant poster here run you off.


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## lea Noel (Jan 14, 2009)

Thanks everyone! I do plan to stay around, as so many people helped us out a few weeks ago when we were having some crate and housebreaking issues. And again here so many of you have been wonderful!! 

Thanks for the info about the small claims, I was told otherwise, and never really looked into it, as I wasn't sure I wanted to get involved in a legal nightmare. I will look into it though, I will PM you with the Breeder and his website. 

I am sure if I post it here, I will be told even further about how many "red flags" there were, and how I should have run for the hills! 

I will fully admit now, that having had this experience, that this is obviously not a reputable breeder. 

Thanks again everyone! 

Oh and I have already discovered Rip Off report, and will make a post. Turns out some of the other families that were screwed have already started making reports on him too! Yay!

Thanks again everybody, and belly rubs to all the doggies, no matter what they are!


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Ahhhhh she is a cutie... Now in that picture she looks like a doodle...


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## cham (Feb 21, 2008)

Noel is a pretty little girl, and I am so glad you are going to stick around. I suspect you are going to fit into GRF quite nicely. And keep those pictures of Noel coming...


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## Phillyfisher (Jan 9, 2008)

What a sweet puppy! Glad to hear you will stay and share her with us all here. You did NOTHING wrong. You certainly did your homework and were deceived by the breeder. Shame on those here that said you should have known better. Hank- thanks for standing up for the OP. Hopefully you will get some restitution from the breeder. Enjoy Noel- what a cute pup and name!


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## jaireen (Feb 25, 2008)

lea Noel said:


> Thanks for the info about the small claims, I was told otherwise, and never really looked into it, as I wasn't sure I wanted to get involved in a legal nightmare. I will look into it though, I will PM you with the Breeder and his website.
> 
> I am sure if I post it here, I will be told even further about how many "red flags" there were, and how I should have run for the hills!


i think its a good idea to let others in this forum know the name of the breeder and their website so that if theres anyone here planning to buy a pup near your area, they would know which breeder to avoid..what he did was totally unjust and one should never let him run off again with this evil trick....



> Oh and I have already discovered Rip Off report, and will make a post. Turns out some of the other families that were screwed have already started making reports on him too! Yay!



am so glad that others are coming out....this breeder needs to stop his stupid game....

and do please post more pix of noel....she looked so adorable....i was in the US last november and came across a lady who was walking sher two dogs....i asked her what their breeds were and forgot what she said....the dogs were friendly, gentle and sooooo cute....the picture of their faces are very clear in my mind up until now....ive been searching the dog breed profiles wishing id come across a pic and the breed of those two angels until i saw noel's pix!!!....it now sink in that those two adorable pups i saw at the park in seattle were goldendoodles....


am sure youll have a great time with noel...i was blessed with a few minutes with those two goldendoodles at the park and i fell in love with them already.....please do post more pix of your baby....:


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## jaireen (Feb 25, 2008)

by the way, barney was my first pup and id like to believe i was ripped off by the breeder too....i was given a sick pup....i knew little about dogs when i purchased my first pup....when i first heard barney coughing, i didnt know he was coughing...i was so worried and brought him back to the breeder the following day and the breeder didnt wanna take him back, return my money, exchange a new pup or even shoulder the expenses for his medical needs....mom and i fell in love with barney that we kept him and shouldered his medical expenses.....we did spent a LOT on him but we still lost him a month later.....


we may not have a similar experience but my point here is, dont beat yourself up....most of us here bought our first pups with little knowledge on what to look for in a breeder or a pup.....youre lucky though...coz youll be able to keep your first pup with you and noel is just adorable and sweet......unlike mine, i lost him a month later....


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## AmbersDad (Dec 25, 2007)

Just out of curiosity, is there any chance of getting into contact with the others you found on "rip-off report" who had these problems with the breeder as well? Possibly join up together in court against this person, it would certainly make a very strong case, as each of you in this situation have had your contract violated so together it may show much more of a problem then just one family. Just a thought. I too think your pup is precious nd hope to keep seeing photos and posts about how she is growing up. Hope to see you stay around. Please don't allow one persons(who is a "professional member but not acting in that manner" ) negative attitude influence you above and beyond the rest of us willing to help and support you.


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## WLR (May 11, 2008)

Spun Gold said:


> OK at the risk of being blasted here....You walked right into this. How could you think he was a reputable breeder???
> 
> Purebred Golden Retriever breeders DO NOT dabble in doodles.
> 
> As soon as you found that out you should have turned on your heels and walked away. Sorry the more details that come out...the more I think you should just love her for the rest of her life. You had to know going into this place that this was a possibility....:doh:


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ouch.....

.


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## lea Noel (Jan 14, 2009)

The names on Rip Off all seem to be either first names or "fake names" I guess, they just have similar stories, and posting in the right time frame. Not sure how I can find out through them......but I was thinking to post an add in our local paper, or somewhere asking for anyone who also purchased a "Golden Retriever" from him and see what response I get......

I did keep all my emails, back and forth between me and him from the start of our process, as well as the contract and other paperwork we received all the times we visited before we picked her up as well as the day we picked her up. I am sure I can do something.....


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## jwemt81 (Aug 20, 2008)

Spun Gold said:


> OK at the risk of being blasted here....You walked right into this. How could you think he was a reputable breeder???
> 
> Purebred Golden Retriever breeders DO NOT dabble in doodles.
> 
> As soon as you found that out you should have turned on your heels and walked away. Sorry the more details that come out...the more I think you should just love her for the rest of her life. You had to know going into this place that this was a possibility....:doh:


Holy crap. I'm sorry, but I just have to say that response was REALLY rude and totally uncalled for.


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## cham (Feb 21, 2008)

AmbikaGR said:


> No I REALLY DO NOT get your point!
> Do you know what you need to do to be listed on the AKC breeder referral listing?
> Well here are the requirements directly off the AKC website
> 
> ...


 
My Hailey came from what some call a BYB, others call a hobby breeder, some might even call her a miller (which she is not), call her what you want, but her litters are also listed on the AKC site, and Hailey would have been registered if she hadn't eaten her papers before I could fill them out and mail them. Seeing as how I had no intention of showing her or breeding it really wasn't important to me.

So, Spun Gold, by those standards what kind of breeder did Hailey come from?


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## WLR (May 11, 2008)

Nah, Don't leave the forum. We want to see pictures of your baby growing up and getting into mischief. We want to read it all....LOL...Take lots of pictures as they grow up so fast. They're only a puppy once.

Here, I fixed the "red" eye for you.


.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I have to say that Noel is a real cutie. I saw one at Petsmart the other day that looked just like her and fell in love with her. She was sweet and a big fluff ball. If I could find one to rescue like her, I would have taken her in a minute. 

Now here comes my rant....If the breeder hides the poodles in the house or building and doesnt list them on the golden website, how would a person know they bred golden doodles also. Is there a place that would show anywhere that a person lists all their dogs that are bred. No I dont think so. So unless you saw them and he said he bred them then how would you know. You wouldnt. I think it sounds like you did everything right with what you did. 
Please dont let one person get you down or try to make you feel bad for purchasing her or knowing better. I think it was meant to be that Noel was meant to be with you. We love all dogs here and I am glad that you are going to stick around so we can watch this pretty girl grow up. And also please keep us updated about what is going on with the breeder. 

I love little Noel and give her a big kiss from all of us. I think we all have fallen in love with her.


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## Celeigh (Nov 29, 2007)

Oh my, she is cute!!!! While I'm not pro-doodle as a money-making breed, I couldn't help but love her if she was mine. She's adorable. Your comment about learning doodle acceptance cracked me up. Maybe we all need a little of that here - I hope you stay on the forum!


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

She's a doll. : 

Get her used to being brushed every day. Doodles are the most difficult coats to keep up and there are not many groomers that know what they are doing with them. My last groomer was one of the few that honestly knew how to groom Doodles and then showing the owners how to keep the coat up, (how to brush them properly), so they didn't mat up as much as they usually do. 

Again, I can't stress the importance of getting her used to being groomed/brushed.


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## lea Noel (Jan 14, 2009)

Thanks! We are working on the brush.....we brush treat, brush treat....etc... Hoping she will build up some stamina for it! LOL


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## 3459 (Dec 27, 2007)

Spun Gold said:


> *I was being sarcastic but I think you get my point, its not that hard to find a good breeder...*


Wow, just wow. . . I'm repeatedly flabbergasted as I read this thread. Finding a good breeder is challenging at best for people who know a great deal more than I do, and excruciatingly difficult for most of us. :doh:

Hank, you really do rock! :appl::appl::appl:

Lea Noel, you have an adorable puppy! :heartbeat I am going to enjoy following you adventures with her!

Charlie06, count me as one who comes to this forum for the things I learn from those who know a lot more about the golden retriever breed than I do. Generally speaking, I even enjoy it when the experts debate one another because of what I learn from all of them. I don't mind when they disagree with one another because I love the way they fight for the breed. I have also learned a tremendous amount from the expertise of the golden lovers and pet owners, and I love the camaraderie and support exhibited among the posters. Please don't give up on all of us. Just remind yourself that All Dogs Go to Heaven, and this is one of those days when you have to sigh and hope the humans have enough sense to follow them there. :wavey:


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## Kohanagold (Nov 5, 2008)

First and foremost, as much as I disagree with Doodles, I do have to say that yours is probably one of the cutest doodles I've ever seen.

Second, I just want to point out, to anyone that is interested in hearing, it isn't as easy as one might think to find a "reputable breeder". Even breeders that show their dogs often aren't "reputable"... they just happen to breed nice dogs. 

Third, my first dog was a cockapoo... same idea. I had no idea about responsible breeding, etc etc. Now, I know. But there are many doodle breeders that try and present themselves as "responsible" and say they do clearance on all their dogs, etc etc. We've had this discussion before and I honestly think that while its a ploy, it does work. They give off the illusion of being reputable and people by it. So you were scammed... and how anyone can imply that a victim of a scam artist is to blame in any scenerio is callus. 

But Forth, I would definately find out if he's a member of CKC and/or GRCBC. That might be the easiest and fastest way to get the word out. 

How dare he imply that you should consider yourself "lucky" because the dog will probably be a better one. Sounds like the "why doodles are better dogs" arguement and it is certainly flawed. 

I think you did the best you knew how and how were you supposed to know anything was up. Until your more recent pictures, she certainly looked all golden to us (or at least all that posted). 

I think that putting oneself on a pedistal is certainly not helpful and implying that people should "know better" is arrogant. I'm sorry to say it, but I do. BTW, very few of the dog books I own mention responsible breeding and fewer yet mention breeding hybrids as a "red flag". And given those are the only books I read, suffice to say, I have a LOT of them. I really think reterick like that is kindof counterproductive. BJ


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

Well to be honest, unless you really know what to look for, it's hard to find a good breeder out there. Some of the websites are very misleading, I saw a doodle website that had gold, silver and bronze health certificates on their dogs - only one bronze and lots of golds. No clue what it meant (googled it and nothing), it was a US breeder. Championship parents, great trainability.... it all sounded very good and if I didn't know any better and wanted a doodle I'd be jumping on one of their litters where both parents had earned gold health clearances. Heck there's even another thread right now about a breeder and how the owner is having problems and they sound like they went with a good conformation breeder from the sounds of things...

Anyway welcome to the forum from Alberta!

Lana


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## DUSTYRD2 (Feb 28, 2007)

The OP has PM'd me with the kennel name website and this so called "breeder" is definately a Canadian breeder. They are not a member of the BC Golden Club, nor could I find any reference to them belonging to GRCBC, GRCC or even CKC. I will leave it up to the discretion of Lea Noel to share the name with you if she chooses, however, IMO this "breeder" is nothing more than a high volume doodle breeder. They have 32 breeding adult dogs listed on their site, goldens, wheaton terriers, rottweilers, doodles, & poodles. While the pics of their kennel operation are lovely, they are definately not a place I would recommend from what I saw on the website.
It's unfortunate the Lea Noel was taken in by them, but fortunate for Noel of course that she landed in a loving home.
I would also suggest to you Lea Noel that you check out the licensing on them with the local jurisdiction (town hall). That many dogs requires a kennel license. If they do have a license,which I'm willing to bet they don't, you may be able to lodge a complaint with the licensing department. I'll try doing some more research for you with CKC and some other sources, but until you have the "goods" on them, be very careful what you say in public postings. I did read on their website under the "satisfied customer" section that another breeder seems to have already tried to do something about their business practices.


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## lea Noel (Jan 14, 2009)

I too have since discovered a rip off report about that other breeder, and his legal issues. His last email to me he also threatened to make some type of legal action against me if I were to "Slander" his name........which is why I have been hesitant to post it here. 

I do not want a huge legal issue on my hands.......just don't want this guy in business still. He was very threatening in his last emails to me, and I don't want to jeperdize my family etc. He obviously has our contact info and address, as it was a part of the contract........ 

Thanks Dusty....

Live and learn.....to love a doodle! he he he


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## DUSTYRD2 (Feb 28, 2007)

lea Noel said:


> I too have since discovered a rip off report about that other breeder, and his legal issues. His last email to me he also threatened to make some type of legal action against me if I were to "Slander" his name........which is why I have been hesitant to post it here.
> 
> I do not want a huge legal issue on my hands.......just don't want this guy in business still. He was very threatening in his last emails to me, and I don't want to jeperdize my family etc. He obviously has our contact info and address, as it was a part of the contract........
> 
> ...


DO NOT allow him to intimidate you, but do be careful what you say until you have the ammo to act against him. Many of these scammers/bullies do just that, try to intimidate you into keeping your mouth shut, and many times it does work. Sounds like you might want to talk to Pointgold, she's been through a similar battle.
As far as you "slandering" their name????? How the h..ll is it slander when they sold you a golden retriever and it ended up being a doodle? Sounds more like fraud to me and they are the perps!

Love that doodle!!


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

I AM CERTAINLLY GLAD YOU DO NOT "HAVE" TO LEAVE SINCE THAT CUTIE PIE IS NOT FULL GOLDEN BECAUSE I WOULD HAVE HAD TO LEAVE LAST MAY WHEN I LOST MY GOLDEN GIRL KayCee TO CANCER BECAUSE HONEY, MY ONLY REMAINING DOG IS NOT FULL GOLDEN! WE ADOPTED HER IN DEC. 2002 KNOWING SHE WAS A GOLDEN MIX AND NEVER REGRETTED IT ONE MINUTE. SHE IS AS LOVED AS ANY OF OUR GOLDENS EVER WERE.

I AM SO SORRY YOU GOT RIPPED OFF. I THINK IT BOILS DOWN TO THE FACT SOME OF US ARE JUST TO TRUSTING AND BELIEVE WHAT WE ARE TOLD. YOU WERE TOLD THIS GUY WAS REPUTABLE, HE PUT ON A FALSE FRONT AND YOU BELIEVED HIM. I MADE THAT MISTAKE WITH A CAR ONCE. AND IF YOU WANT TO GET DOWN TO BRASS TACKS, I BELIEVED IT ABOUT PROHEART6 TIL IT KILLED MY HUNTER. I TRUSTED MY VET WHO TRUSTED THE DRUG COMPANY. I DID NOT EVER THINK ABOUT GETTING ON A COMPUTER TO SEE IF I OCULD FIND OUT BAD THINGS ABOUT. AFTER HUNTERS DEATH, I RESEARCHED AND FOUND BAD STUFF. I LEARNED MY LESSON THE HARD WAY--WITH THE LOSS OF A WONDERFUL DOG (IN MY AVATAR) YOU LEARNED YOUR LESSON WITH THE "GAIN" OF A WONDERFUL DOG.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

lea Noel said:


> The last remark I will make about this.......
> 
> Because I do believe that there are many, many, well meaning people out there like me, who feel that they have done their research, and felt that they had found what they thought was a decent place to buy a puppy.


You are definitely the victim here. There's just no grey area about buying a golden retriever w/ a contract and receiving a goldendoodle- the breeder is in the wrong, 100 percent. I read the rip off reports, and I see why you'd be intimidated to get into it with the guy. Rough situation here- hopefully, DustyRDR and her club can use their influence to curtail his activities. The silver lining is that Noel is adorable! I spent two years, armed with full info about clearances& breeders and still made a mistake. I think it's very hard for pet owners to know 100 percent what's going on behind the scenes with a particular litter. Even breeders feel completely bamboozled by other breeders at times.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

lea Noel said:


> I did keep all my emails, back and forth between me and him from the start of our process, as well as the contract and other paperwork we received all the times we visited before we picked her up as well as the day we picked her up. I am sure I can do something.....


Did this person let you pay by check? I have an email from Shadow's breeder that clearly stated WHY she would'nt take a personal check and it had nothing to do with her being concerned it would bounce. Thankfully she stopped breeding Goldens.

Let me share this with you. I had lots of red flags when we went to get Shadow from his breeder. At that point in my life I was very needy. I had just lost my dog of 17 years and my Mother. I was just not thinking clearly. I'm glad I have my Shadow though. He brought light into my life after all that loss. During his two hip surgeries before the age of one, I had to think about him and not feel sorry for myself. He changed my focus and I needed that focus to be changed.


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## buckeyegoldenmom (Oct 5, 2008)

I did want to just chime this small bit of info. My sister bought a goldendoodle two years ago. She bought into the hype about best of both breeds low shedding, better health etc.

Anyway I remember when she first brought Derby home at 9 weeks. He did look exactly like a golden retriever. I was only a few months later....like Noel that you could see he was a doodle. Derby looks a lot like Noel.

Finally my sister does love Derby, but even she will say the low shedding is a joke, the grooming and brushing is more than she initially thought. His light fur shows all the dirt. It picks up leaves, snow, grass etc.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

lea Noel said:


> I too have since discovered a rip off report about that other breeder, and his legal issues. His last email to me he also threatened to make some type of legal action against me if I were to "Slander" his name........which is why I have been hesitant to post it here.
> 
> I do not want a huge legal issue on my hands.......just don't want this guy in business still. He was very threatening in his last emails to me, and I don't want to jeperdize my family etc. He obviously has our contact info and address, as it was a part of the contract........
> 
> ...


The legal standard for libel (written slander), at least in the US, protects you as long as you write something that you believe to be true. Therefore, you can say anything true in any public forum you like. If this breeder told you your dog was a purebred Golden Retriever, it cannot, by definition be libel if you tell the whole darn world that the dog was supposed to be a Golden and then post the picture of your doodle. If you have a written document that says the dog's a Golden, so much the better, but you don't even need it.

Unless you entered into some kind of confidentiality, which would have to be spelled out in writing, there's no part of this story the breeder could sue you over (again, assuming everything you've said is 100% true). Tell the world, share the kennel name, share every single detail you like, and then give the breeder the chance to make you financially whole (i.e., refund the bulk of the purchase price). 

I know you said the money wasn't important, but this person has essentially pulled a bait and switch scam, whether it began intentionally or not, and your sense of justice, if not your wallet, must be hurting. It may be difficult to win in small claims, since he could probably just offer to exchange the dog (which would, of course, be unacceptable to you), but you could absolutely tell your story out on the web. The breeder could then choose how the story ended: either you get to say "eventually he made it right by refunding all but $100 of the purchase price" or "to this day, he denies he did anything wrong, and I would recommend that people avoid his unethical business."

The fact that he called it slander is good evidence that he has no concept of the legal issues. If you _lied_ and it hurt his business in a measurable way, he could sue. The truth, however, cannot be libelous, no matter the damage it may or may not do to a business. Again, it may be worth double checking the legal standards in Canada, but in the US it's pretty clear cut.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Okay, I haven't got time to read all the posts here but I just saw a picture of your precious puppy. She is ADORABLE, I love her!!! I would be so happy to have her  Seriously!

I would love to see you stay here, I want to hear and see more of her growing up. I think she's positively lovely and a pure blessing in disguise.

Just look at that face ... it brightens my day :heartbeat


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

Did you get AKC Registration papers? I'm sure the AKC would love to hear about this.


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## Kand3 (Nov 3, 2008)

Doodle or not, Noel is absolutely adorable!!! :smooch:

I'm sorry for all you have been through and couldn't agree more with all the posts saying you are the victim and did NOTHING wrong! I also agree that you did far more homework in finding your pup than most. We brought home our first golden almost 6 weeks ago, did tons of research and can already tell you there are things I would have done differently. Live and learn!! 

Best of luck with Noel!!


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## RummysMum (Jan 9, 2009)

lea Noel said:


> I too have since discovered a rip off report about that other breeder, and his legal issues. His last email to me he also threatened to make some type of legal action against me if I were to "Slander" his name........which is why I have been hesitant to post it here.
> 
> I do not want a huge legal issue on my hands.......just don't want this guy in business still. He was very threatening in his last emails to me, and I don't want to jeperdize my family etc. He obviously has our contact info and address, as it was a part of the contract........
> 
> ...


He feels threatened and yes... as another poster said, he is only trying to intimidate you. He can't do squat for slander because he sold you something and lied about what he was selling (fraud.) He doesnt' have a leg to stand on and by being nasty he is hoping to scare you off. This guy is a "fear biter" lol 

Small claims court and like another person suggested, find out if he has a kennel license. Any more than 3 dogs (some areas 4) require one. If he doesn't have it... he's in trouble.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

I don't think it's slander if you're totally honest about your experience. You bought a golden puppy and it turned out to be a doodle. Sounds like this breeder doesn't have enough control over his dogs to make sure they're not bred by whoever, and he's not honest enough to maybe keep the pups for a bit longer to be sure what they are before selling - if he knew a dog jumped the fence....

Lana


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

I don't have anything to add to all of the good advice that you've received but I do want to say that Noel is adorable!!!!!!!!!!


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## lea Noel (Jan 14, 2009)

Thank you everyone, I am looking at all my options, and of course I am being totally honest, in my account. I too don't think he would have a leg to stand on. you can't be sued for telling the truth. 

I told him I would be telling my story. And I will. I just need to careful and smart about it. I live in the same small town as this guy, so its not as though I may never run into him, or whatever. I have now discovered that others who have had issues with him endured countless harrassing phone calls, and nasty emails. Some ended up contacting the police. 

I have 4 children in my home, and do not want this to turn nasty, and involve them in the drama in anyway. 

I agree this guy needs to be stopped, but I also have to think about how we go about it. Make sure all the T 's are crossed and the I's dotted ya know.....

I really appreciate all the support! 

You guys are great!


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

*You know, you buy a car and it turns out to be a lemon, the company says you can get a different car, that is fine, that is great. No problem, good riddance to a piece of junk But in the case of a dog (not a lemon of course, just not what you paid for, were promisd) you love him/her and unlike a car or piece of furniture that is faulty, you can't just say "good riddance". Your heart does not work that way. *

*That guy needs to be stopped. How man others has he defrauded and got by with becuse he scared them into keeping quiet? How many more will ha the same thing happen to them.*

*If p[eople work together things can be corrcted. When PorHeart6 killed my Hunter, I was all over the web telling his story. I had a tee shirt made up with his picture on the frotn and over the picture HE GOT PROHEART6 and under the picture AND HE DIED. On the back i had the picture of Bandit the border collie that died in wisconsin the same day as my Hunter died here in Texas with the same words (I got his owners whoe hearted approval to do so) and I wore it when i went to PetSart, to Wlamart, to any area where there was crowd and i dre lots of attention. I had made up lfyers with information about his death and a coupl of web sites dedicataed to dogs that were killed or had severe reactions to it. I handed them to any who asked. Hubby took some with him on the road and with permission put them in truck stops (many drivers hae dogs with them), terminals, etc.*

*Many of us were going all over the web and we were finding each other and we banded together and we stayed in touch with the FDA, and when new folks reported to us they had their lost dog after ProHeart6 to AIHA, liver damge, etc, we encouraged them to make a report to the FDA. One thing I did as did a fe others was never say "i my opinion, Proheart6 caused the death of y dog", we flat out said it becaue we knew. Many were worried that the maker would sue them and would say "in my oinion......". But the thing is, the story of the deaths got taken up by TV stations al around the counry and stories were aired. And the FDA had them pul it because f all the reactions and deaths. It was pulled 10 months afte Hunter's death. It was allowed to return last summer, after being gone for almost 4 years, and being reformulated, but it has so many warnings on the label I don't see how it can possiblly be used by many---if they know all about it. *

*I hope you that were taken by this guy can get him tken care of!*


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## kirst1 (May 30, 2008)

You have recieved very good advice, and I must say that Noel is a beatiful little puppy. And if she is a Labradoodle, these too are lovely dogs. Either way, she is a little stunner.


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## LilysMom (Oct 21, 2008)

lea Noel said:


> Here are pics of her today at about 3 and half months, sure looks Doodle to me! But hey, she is our Doodle now, and we love her. I was so against Doodles, so maybe she was meant to find us, and give her a loving home so she could teach us Doodle acceptance?!?!? He he he
> 
> Not sure I know how to do this right, so sorry if they are huge or tiny....


OHMYGOD, she is GORGEOUS! I LOVE Doodles. I don't have one, but there are several at our dog park. What sweet dogs.
I would look at it this way: Doodles (wrongly) sell for a fortune. You got a 'discount Doodle' 
I am sorry you didn't get what you wanted, but I have to say I love what you did get.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Okay, as a small puppy she sure did look just like a golden to me. Now she is obviously a doodle, but man oh man is she adorable!


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

I'm sorry they did this to you 

Look at it this way. Everything happens for a reason. He's a gorgeous doggy, and I've read that, the breeding question aside, the are fine dogs. Maybe even a little healthier than your average golden as far as hereditary issues are concerned.

He may not be what you expected, but he doesn't know that 

And I have to agree. That sure looks like a doodle to me.


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## lea Noel (Jan 14, 2009)

I have filed a report with the BBB of the Lower Mainland in B.C I am sure it will go nowhere as he offered to "replace" the dog.....with another Mutt I am sure, but at least this will show another claim against his business.

I am also contacting the local Regional District to see if he in fact has a kennel license and if not to report that as well. 

Just want to keep you all up dated......


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## DUSTYRD2 (Feb 28, 2007)

http://www.margaretjonesforckc.com/

This the site for the CKC Zone Director for our area. Contact her and explain the situation. She should be able to find out if this person is indeed a CKC registered breeder. She may also be able to offer more suggestions to you. I know she was most helpful to me when we had some queries.


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## lea Noel (Jan 14, 2009)

Thank you! Done!


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## riddle03 (Jun 9, 2005)

I am so sorry this happened to you. She sure is a beautiful pup. Can't wait to see more pictures of her as she grows. Keep em coming.


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

lea Noel, if you can't contact the other puppy buyers via Rip Off Report, here's a thought. If you have CraigsList in your area, put a request in the "Pets" section to contact you if you purchased a puppy from _____ breeder (you could put Noel's litter or just leave it generic). If you get some responses, try to get together with these folks and see about a group small claims court action. It's too small time for a class action suit, but certainly having more than one ripped off puppy buyer in court with all their paperwork should get someone's attention. Be sure to call the local paper to let them know about numbers of folks who were ripped off, and if they want to do a story and interview you, be sure to say that you're very concerned for your safety as this guy has already tried to intimidate people. No one in their right mind follows through with harrassment or worse once they've been identified as the probably culprit should anything happen! The local police also read the local papers. Good luck, and your puppy is absolutely precious, no matter what she is!


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## DUSTYRD2 (Feb 28, 2007)

I thought of something else at work today and couldn't wait to get home to post. Does your bill of sale indicate how much Provincial Sales Tax you paid? It is MANDATORY on ALL dog sales in BC to be charging PST. Maybe the Ministry of Social Services (the pst police LOL) would be interested. Also, GST must be charged if the sellers annual sales are over 30K which I'm sure with the numbers of dogs they are selling has been exceeded. I wonder if they are declaring all their income to Rev. Can? Just a thought.............


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## Bob-N-Tash (Feb 24, 2008)

As I understand it, 'Slander' is when you say something that is not true. If you can prove that you were purchased a purebred golden and received a mixed breed that isn't slander. 

Still, I feel that you are wise to be thoughtful about what you put in writing.


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

Bob-N-Tash said:


> As I understand it, 'Slander' is when you say something that is not true. If you can prove that you were purchased a purebred golden and received a mixed breed that isn't slander.
> 
> Still, I feel that you are wise to be thoughtful about what you put in writing.


I totally agree. And I am not trying to scare you, just agreeing with you and with Bob-n-Tash. It might be possible to get a mediator, arbitrator or judge that sees a healthy puppy and does not know the difference or recognize the importance of the distinction between what you were told you were buying and what you got.

I sure understand your frustration but she is very cute and you will give her the love to make her an amazing dog. If you are embarrassed about the doodle part, you can always say she is a wheaton .

I have two friends with doodles and although I don't get it (and they do shed and mat terribly) I love the dogs and they are darling and spunky and well loved.


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## GRZ (Dec 4, 2008)

Abbydabbydo said:


> It might be possible to get a mediator, arbitrator or judge that sees a healthy puppy and does not know the difference or recognize the importance of the distinction between what you were told you were buying and what you got.


Oh they will if one thing is stated in the contract and they see that the OP got something completely different.

If I were to go buy a Porsche and a really nice BMW was delivered it will never negate the fact that what I bought was a Porsche.

Judges have interns to research things for them. There's no reason any judge or other should not know the difference.


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

GRZ said:


> Oh they will if one thing is stated in the contract and they see that the OP got something completely different.
> 
> If I were to go buy a Porsche and a really nice BMW was delivered it will never negate the fact that what I bought was a Porsche.
> 
> Judges have interns to research things for them. There's no reason any judge or other should not know the difference.


You are exactly right, it should not happen. But it did happen to me (not about a dog). Judges rarely hear these cases. Unless you go to small claims court, and that will not shut down this fraudulent breeder.


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## mygarnetboy (Nov 3, 2008)

Sherman is a rescue--I don't have any pics on this 'puter, but his coat is incredibly curly. So much so that my neighbors doubted that he's all golden. However our trainer (whose dealt w/hundreds of dogs) and vet (ditto) say he's all golden. Curly coats happen...just like curly hair happens in people! 

His face, body, personality--all Golden. His coat is a bit odd (he's kind of got a 'fro down his back)--but he's such a great dog, who cares?


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## Jen (Jun 2, 2007)

Do you have a talk radio show in your area? 
I would call in and tell them what happened and see what other people have to say. i don't know if you could say their name on air but you might find out some way of "outing" this guy
or you could get in touch with the local paper, a journalist who has a heart for this type of story and get it out in the media
your pup is absolutely adorable by the way!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Jen said:


> Do you have a talk radio show in your area?
> I would call in and tell them what happened and see what other people have to say. i don't know if you could say their name on air but you might find out some way of "outing" this guy
> or you could get in touch with the local paper, a journalist who has a heart for this type of story and get it out in the media
> your pup is absolutely adorable by the way!


This is what local journalists are for! And this is why countries with free presses have libel laws that protect people who are telling the truth. A journalist may also be able to help you find other people who have had the same experience. And again, you have a fundamental right to tell the truth about this situation, whether or not it upsets this breeder. The added advantage to involving a journalist is that if the guy harasses you in any way, they can report that too!

He has every option to turn this from a ripoff into an honest mistake. If he sold you a dog as a "purebred Golden Retriever" and it turns out the dog is a Golden mix, he can either keep your money (ripoff) or admit to an accidental breeding and return the money (honest mistake). Then you can update your journalist and everywhere you've written on the web to verify that the guy made good, albeit under a little pressure.


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## alanckaye (Feb 7, 2009)

I don't know what you paid for the one you got but if it were me (I have 32 years experience with the court system), I would collect all my paperwork, make a notation - time date, content of conversation and any other evidence you have then take him to small claims court. Sue him for the difference in what you should have paid for a golden and for what you got. Obviously you are bonded and I think the judge will understand that. Get the names of others who bought from that litter or better yet, take one or two to court with you. At the very least you can recover some of your money. If I had a small claims case I would apply to go on Judge Jude - no joke, she hates it when people do what he has done to you. Sue his butt!


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

Coming in late to this thread. First of all, your puppy is adorable. Enjoy her, she is precious. And now for true confessions. We got our first golden from a pet store (ducking now to avoid any flames) Yes, I know it was a bad decision but it was twenty years ago and I didn't know any better. He actually was a very good dog, but he died too early at 8 from a brain tumor. After he died I did my research, lots of it, found a well known breeder I wanted a puppy from. But my cheap husband didn't want to pay the price, I wanted a puppy so bad I found one in the newspaper, cheap and we got him. He is a noble good dog, but so far out of the physical standard and has had various health issues. Thankfully his temperament is pure gold. He is now almost ten. We are lucky to have him. But I finally learned my lesson. My other dogs were all bought from good reputable breeders. And they are healthy and wonderful and dear dear companions. Someone earlier made a comment that it isn't hard to find a good breeder. Well, it kind of is. It takes a lot of research and time and questions. Sometimes the impulse for a puppy overcomes the wisdom of waiting for a well bred pup. For my Raider I had to wait probably a year and a half for him. Anyway, I applaud you for following up with this breeder who duped you, he should not be allowed to do this. And enjoy your puppy. She is a real treasure.


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## Tailer'sFolks (Feb 27, 2007)

Was wondering how your Doodle is doing...I'd love to see new pictures!


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Yeah - I looked and looked and finally found her picture. She is absolutely adorable.
Don't let anyone make you feel bad. Even if you knew the breeder bred doodles, AI'm sure you trusted him. I'm just that gullible myself, but I'd rather trust too much than too little.
How's Noel. Got new pictures??????


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## Tahla9999 (Nov 21, 2008)

That happen to us as well! The person who gave us Chouchi said he was a pure Chow and when we first got him, he sure did look like it. But as he got older, say around three months, we began to notice how, um, un-chow he was becoming. Next thing you know, we end up with a chow/ german shepard looking mix.


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## AcesWild (Nov 29, 2008)

Any news on the breeder? Have you taken any action against them (took me forever to read this) I really hope you don't let one snobby person scare yu away from the thread! My dog isn't even a retriever and we love it here! (our golden baby won't be here until December). I certainly didn't know better when I got Moxie she was just shipped to me from the rescue! All I had was a picture and a paragraph and everyone comments on how she is the best dog they have ever come across.


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## Noey (Feb 26, 2009)

Your Noel is golden to me. Very cute. 

I don't know the laws in Canada. I know in the US pets under the law are treated as "property" so because you have a contract that states the breed and what was expected, you might have a case. Because the breeder offered to correct such a situation they might also be covered as the court might consider this ok as you would have to prove his intent was to sell you the non-golden, which is hard to prove intent sometimes. 

The only thing I can think of is to see what he asks for the doodles in comparison to the Goldens. IF the price is different in your favor ask for the difference.

Golden Doodles are big in our area, I can tell you had I researched a breeder that had both on the property I don't think I would have thought to ask "are you sure this is a golden puppy" And I researched my place and to some its not considered the best...but I consider it the best as Noah came from it and too me he is perfect.

Live and learn, and I wish I knew an easy way to help you feel better. And do not feel bad mistakes happen, your just ended up being a cute ball of fur. : )


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

tippykayak said:


> This is what local journalists are for! And this is why countries with free presses have libel laws that protect people who are telling the truth. A journalist may also be able to help you find other people who have had the same experience. And again, you have a fundamental right to tell the truth about this situation, whether or not it upsets this breeder. The added advantage to involving a journalist is that if the guy harasses you in any way, they can report that too!
> 
> He has every option to turn this from a ripoff into an honest mistake. If he sold you a dog as a "purebred Golden Retriever" and it turns out the dog is a Golden mix, he can either keep your money (ripoff) or admit to an accidental breeding and return the money (honest mistake). Then you can update your journalist and everywhere you've written on the web to verify that the guy made good, albeit under a little pressure.


Many years ago, my sister purchased a purebred blond cocker spaniel puppy from a breeder who was a regular in the show world. The puppy was sold without papers for a lower price but the purchaser had the option of paying a higher fee for a pup with papers.

When I first saw the puppy, I knew that she wasn't a purebred cocker and broke the news to my sis - the family had the puppy for a month. When my sister called the breeder, he admitted that another dog must have gotten in with the bitch. He agreed to take the puppy back but advised that the puppy would be euthanized. 

I then took the phone from my bewildered sis and told him that he had broken many rules of the CKC including registering and selling purebred puppies when he knew that the litter had been compromised. After a very lengthy discussion that was getting nowhere other than the puppy could be returned for a full rebate (& the promise that the puppy would be killed), I advised him that we would be going to a reporter who did shows on disreputable business persons. A full rebate was made and the puppy remained with my sis/family. 

I would have loved to expose this guy on TV - if only I had the knowledge I have now!


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## Kohanagold (Nov 5, 2008)

Gwen said:


> Many years ago, my sister purchased a purebred blond cocker spaniel puppy from a breeder who was a regular in the show world. The puppy was sold without papers for a lower price but the purchaser had the option of paying a higher fee for a pup with papers.


Good for you!! 

I just wanted to point out though, as just an FYI in case it ever comes up to anyone, but CKC does NOT allow breeders to charge for "papers" and I cant imagine AKC is any different. I'm sure most people know this, but in the event that they dont... you are entitled to papers on any purebred dog. Without them, regardless of the parents being purebred or not, you can not legally call the dog a "purebred", much less sell it as such. If you breed 2 purebred dogs (of the same breed) and both have registration papers, but you decide not to register the litter, legally, they are "mutts". Just thought I'd throw that in. 

I'm pleased that you were able to talk them into letting your sis keep the puppy (and why not? Saved the euthanasia fee and the dog was perfectly fine as a pet... other than they really didn't want to refund the puppy and thought by then your sis would be attached and choose the puppy over the money).


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## rictic (Feb 16, 2009)

i would insist on my cash back as he sold under false pretences.
you wouldnt pay for a porsche and accept a ford would ya.


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## Nan (Jul 21, 2007)

She's a cutie for sure!; Got any room for a "real" golden? I'm sure she is very lucky to have you as her owners. My thinking is that "everything happens for a reason". I can understand your disappointment with the breeder. This puppy will love you just as much as a "real" golden will.


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## alanckaye (Feb 7, 2009)

He knew in a few months you would bond and being a dog lover would not give Noel up. About 18 years ago my sister in law brought a black puppy to my wife, her sister and left her. I was furious because I was not ready for a dog. KC was a retriever mix and turned out to be very intelligent. She was the last puppy in the group because she was black. She lived for 15-16 years, I lost count but I would not go back and trade that dog for any other if I had it to do over again. What I'm saying is if you got ripped off money wise then you have a remedy in court to get some of your money back but you also have a wonderful friend and Noel has what sounds like a wonderful family. It all worked out.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

When you have someone who says "You can bring the puppy back and we will give you a refund, but it will be euthanized", you are dealing with a cold-hearted seller of merchandise, not someone who gives a **** about the dogs and breeding, nor deserves the privilege of so much as picking up your dogs poop.

Rat *******.

Sorry, the whole euthanization thing just set me free...


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