# General Manners



## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Ok mine is NOT a golden but you folks let me talk about my labs (thank you!) and a puppy is a puppy! 

Quinn is a good girl, but she is a assertive, independent soul. She has a TON of energy and drive. We have been working hard on her obedience skills, stay, down, etc. However some of her general manners have fallen by the wayside :uhoh: :doh: I hate to say. 

When we take her to the vet she will NOT hold still for examination. She also is out of control when people want to pet her. Yesterday someone asked if they could and I said no because Quinn is not polite for petting... yet. 

How would you go about training a dog to stand still? I have not quite had a dog with this much wiggle! I would like to get a CGC on her but she won't handle the people petting her part. 

Also what can we do for the petting? Just correcting her is not working. We are working on a stronger sit on her so that may help. She jumps ALL over the place. 

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Quinn is 7 months old. So this has gone on way too long. Bad owners we know.  

Ann


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## SweetSoul (Apr 27, 2010)

I don't have any good advice on this one, but I know many on here will have that for you. At least you are realizing that she needs better training and it sounds like you are willing to do the diligent work that will be required. Good luck and I hope you get some help on here  PS Would love to see a picture of her.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

SweetSoul said:


> PS Would love to see a picture of her.


As you wish!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

No - encourage people (of all sizes and ages) to pet her. It's necessary for socialization and ensure you will have a safe and fearless dog when she grows up. 

When they ask if they can pet her, ask them to hang on a second and get a hold of her collar to physically hold her in place while they pet her. She doesn't have to sit right now and she can wiggle her butt all she wants. You just want to make sure she's not jumping up on anyone or going too nuts. Remember to praise her and ensure she knows this is a positive thing. 

As she matures and settles down, you will be able to be a little more hands-off as people pet her. <- I consider it a landmark that I can hook my young golden to the latch in the checkout lane at the petstore while I write out checks. He is allowed to wiggle and greet everyone and their dogs, but he doesn't get too nuts. It took a lot of time, collar grabbing, and "settle" commands and praise before he got to that point.

*With the CGC training - I think they want the dog to be sitting (right?). I generally proof with people he knows first. At least that's how I taught the stand-stay. Once I knew he wasn't going to MOVE when I practiced the stay/approach/pet at home, then I moved on to other people. While he is in the rough stages and you can't trust him to hold the sit stay or stand stay if you are a leash distance away, you can stand or kneel at his side, right hand securing his collar while the left hand is on his rump (or under his rib cage in the case of the stand) and you physically hold him in place until you release him.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Problem is she does jump and got TOO nuts. I do NOT want to reward that behavior. As she mellows walking 'past' people... she gets WAY too excited and she loses her brains. 

IF the person is a dog person who knows to with draw their attention if she misbehaves I do let them work with her. 

This is a HIGH energy dog. Which is what we wanted, I just want to learn to correct her and train her without breaking her spirit. She is a "pocket rocket". 

One thing I want to say, yesterday on our walk we met the CUTEST 4 month old golden pup. Ok I can't RESIST a golden : Quinn behaved decently. She did not 'stay' but she let me hold her back, and then she met the pup appropriately. Of course I wanted to swoop up that pup and hold it.. I love golden fluff. 

Ann


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Problem is she does jump and got TOO nuts. I do NOT want to reward that behavior. As she mellows walking 'past' people... she gets WAY too excited and she loses her brains.
> 
> IF the person is a dog person who knows to with draw their attention if she misbehaves I do let them work with her.
> 
> This is a HIGH energy dog. Which is what we wanted, I just want to learn to correct her and train her without breaking her spirit. She is a "pocket rocket".


I hear you. Mine was the same way. But generally if you can get a good hold of her collar and keep her from jumping up on people, you can't do too much socialization. Just make sure people know she's insane and loves the world (if they can't tell by her greeting frenzy) and encourage them to sneak a quick pat in there if they would. Make sure you praise her overtime when she's good.


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## SweetSoul (Apr 27, 2010)

Awe she's a beauty!


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## mdoats (Jun 7, 2007)

Rookie is not a jumper, but he's still a wiggler at 3 years old. Not as bad as a young, lab, but he does have a hard time standing still when I'm greeting people or other dogs. It just goes against his nature. When we greet people he won't jump on them, but they might start off petting his head and end up scratching his backside. He moves a lot.

When we greet non-dog people, or people that I don't want him to greet, I keep him on a short leash and I have him sit by my side. I'll give him treats. Sometimes I'll just hold the treat and let him sniff at him while I'm talking. Sometimes I'll give him little bits of it if we're standing talking a long time. If I don't have any treats with me, he'll lean his head against my leg and I rub his ears.

We've attempted the CGC, but Rookie and I have failed on the greeting other people and dogs part of the exam. He's just WAY too interested in them. So, the sitting by my side and getting treats or ear rubs thing works for us for now. He doesn't strain against the leash, but it's definitely an effort for him to sit there and not rub himself against whoever we're greeting. He's always so relieved to be released when we continue walking.

I have some elderly neighbors who enjoy seeing him, but don't want to pet him or be approached by him. They compliment him on how well behaved he is because he sits by my side while we're talking. So it's working for us.


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## Laurie (Sep 20, 2009)

Well until yesterday I would have classified my 2 younger guys as "well mannered and polite"!!!!! I had to take them to the vet for their shots. I have never seen 2 dogs so excited about going into a vet's office. Getting to the door was the easy part....then I opened it...holy crap...Lincoln ran up to the counter, put his big feet on it to greet the receptionists...all the while there were other clients standing there!!! Austin was more interested in the food section and dragged me over there so I have 130 pounds of dog pulling me in different directions. Thank god, the people in there liked dogs!!!! I was never so embarassed......they behaved like they had never undergone an hour of training in their lives.....Greeting people outside on their walks is wonderful...they typically will sit and wait to be petted or spoken to. I don't know what it is about being inside that turns them into these "wild things". I was so glad to get into the examination room....where they were actually behaved.....needles and all.

In any event, I left the office shaking my head and thinking.....what the he&& just happened and who were those dogs!!!!! I"m thinking more "inside" greeting practice is high on my priority list.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

mdoats said:


> ...When we greet people he won't jump on them, but they might start off petting his head and end up scratching his backside. He moves a lot...


Ranger does the same thing! He sits politely and lets people pat him on the head but if their hands start to stray towards his tail...watch out. That's when he's POSITIVE these people were put here on earth solely to scratch his butt...and his performance begins.

He starts by turning around and reversing into the lucky person's legs, (whose eyes are usually wide open at this point, wondering what happened to the polite dog that was just there) then he turtles his back and starts rubbing his butt up and down on the person's legs. It's also accompanied with an open mouth grin over his shoulder and a lot of grunting, while his butt goes up and down, up and down. He'll finally sit, then scootch backwards so he's sitting on people's feet...still looking over his shoulder and grunting. :doh:

Luckily, he reserves this for when hands go past his shoulders, so most "I'm-petting-your-dog-just-to-be-polite" people don't go past his head and then don't get the weirdo performance. The ones who do are usually dog people themselves and think it's hilarious (but weird). 

The odd occasion it happens to a non-dog person, I try to explain what's happening and try to get Ranger back in heel position. Unfortunately, once he gets it into his head that a person is going to scratch his butt, nothing can convince him otherwise. He's quite a hit at the pet store when the sales staff try to get unsuspecting people to pet him.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Trainer True Confession:

My dog jumps on people. All my "dog friends" don't care (rather, they encourage it) and it's not something I've spent a lot of time working on.

Now that I've said that, here's how I handle him in the world:

When someone wants to pet him, I attach a handful of treats right on his nose and let him nibble from my hand as he's sitting and being petted. It's a dual reward: attention from the person AND food. I'll also step on the leash right where it naturally hits the floor so that if he goes off the food for a micro-second and tries to jump, he can't.

I teach all my clients this way too. It works! Over time, you delay the food until eventually, it's not needed.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Trainer True Confession:
> 
> My dog jumps on people. All my "dog friends" don't care (rather, they encourage it) and it's not something I've spent a lot of time working on.
> 
> ...


Might try this.. she is food motivated :uhoh: I don't mind dogs jumping, "if" they are asked. I do think this is our fault, as Quinn is LITTLE! It was easier to pet her when she came up. We have taught her to not jump up when we came home, not jump on us on furniture... so I guess we just need more practice. Just in the real world not our comfy home, her brains run out her ears. Thanks

Ann


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

I would not have people petting her until you've taught her to be calm...we don't want to let her see people and get aroused...that can be hard to get around later!

Get a help. Initially, this can be a family member.

For visual reference (if you don't have driveway/sidewalks...that's okay, the point here is the distances and positions), have her sit on the driveway, far enough away she won't get up when someone walks on the sidewalk. Your helper will walk past on the sidewalk. As s/he is closest, as in, when passing over the driveway while going on the sidewalk... click for a still dog, and feed a treat. If your dog gets up, move further from the sidewalk. Repeat several times. Then have your person walk a little closer on his/her path. Closer closer closer. Until the person is walking RIGHT past your dog without touching.

And from there, walk past, but pause when next to your dog...the pause is half a second, then continue on. Your click woudl be for "still dog" at the pause. The pause extends each time. When you get your helper standing about 3-5 seconds... next step.

Have your helper come up and barely bring his hand out 9as if to pet...but maybe just moving 2 inches). Click for still dog (when the hand is out). Feed a treat. Repeat a lot of times... and the hand can come a bit closer each time, the hand can do fake pets....

Work up to real pets and extending the time of the petting. If your dog ever gets up, back up a few levels and keep going with more repetition. 

Once you've worked through this....find another help. ANd then another.

Ultimately the cue to be still is the person approaching./reaching/petting. 

We use this same process for all dogs, and it takes about the same amount of time for excitable dogs and shy dogs. 

It's been pretty silly with my young dog...when he sees somenoe he wants to be petted by, he will stand (...his position is stand) and hold VERY still, even his head and usually his tail.. "I am STANDING. Come PET me!" 

Way easier to teach this in real life than by description, but it might help you out. We still fake good behavior with Stephanie's suggestion when we're in a situation we have not yet trained for.

With this exercise, we've taken it a fwe steps further for my dog as he REALLY didn't like restraint, making vet stuff hard. So I'd add in more touch/pressure/holding, just a tiny bit at a time, clicking for "still dog" at the hardest point of the sequence, feeding, and then repeating. At the vet last month he was beautiful. When we restrained him for his blood draw he held very still and almost said "I am holding STILL. I am GOOD!" 



Have her Sit. Have the person walk past, far enough away that she does not get up. When we do this, we click for "still dog" as the person is closest (on his/her line going past), then reinforce. If the dog gets up, the helper is walking on a line further away.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

good suggestions.. yes we need a LOT of proofing, but first we want to get her to get the idea of her part. 

I think my other issue of how to keep her from wiggling. Even when we want to quietly pet her she practically turns somersaults. How do you teach a dog who is going to show conformation to stand? I know upper levels of obedience do this but there are pups showing conformation. Ok they don't have Quinn's drive but... Do we just rig her leash so she can't sit (wrap her hind end) give a stand command and work from there? All my other dogs have been good patients at the vet. This one is a wild child, once the vet starts to examine her. She is 'ok' until then. 

I think all of these will help her focus, and help her maintain her brain. Which we need to do. She is a smart dog, she just tries to get ahead thinking. Figure out what she thinks is going to be asked, instead of just waiting for it. So I am thinking 'patience' exercises are in store. 

Funny think when she did the field seminar, she sat still like a rock until released for her marks. She can do it. We just have to convince her to do it in other situations (not necessarily as much fun in her mind) too.

Ann


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

I teach stand using a certain way of luring to get a kick-back stand... but you could just lure forward. Then teach the stay part however you normally teach stay... and then do the exercise I posted above (...I did it all from a stand position, thinking obedience.... stand for exam is a novice level exercise (first level)). 

This is yes a proofing exercise but it also teaches her the concept of people approaching=stay, petting=stay, excitement=stay.. We start this exercise as soon as a dog is able to do a super short stay with his handler moving.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

*How do you teach a dog who is going to show conformation to stand?*

I'll also use the food technique. Feed... feed... feed.... then pull the food away for a super-fast-nano-second while repeating the stand/stay and then go right back to feeding. In the beginning, the food goes away and comes back so fast, if you blink, you'll miss it. Over time, dog learns holding position = food comes back.

I often start the behavior this way, to try and get the idea in the dog's head and then I'll move on to shaping for duration and more distractions much like Red Dogs does.


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## Golden River of Dreams (Feb 25, 2010)

If you have access to a grooming table or raised surface this may help teaching a dog to stand still because they need to be conscience of where their feet are. To teach a dog to sit calmly for petting you can attach the dogs collar to a pole or tree and go up to the dog. If your dog starts to jump, back up so their paws don't touch you. As soon as your dog settles go back up to him and when he doesn't jump reward him. You can also ask them to sit every time you go up to them and not pet them until they are sitting. When you get to a point that your dog is not jumping when you go up to them start increasing your excitement (raise your arms over your head, talk in an excited voice, hold a toy, squeak a toy, etc.). If your dog starts to jump step back and remind them to sit before you go back up to them. When you take your dog into public ask your dog to sit then ask people to step back if your dog gets up from a sit position. If your dog is sitting they won't be able to jump on people.
Hold the leash tight enough that your dog can't go more then a foot forward so that they can't charge at the person as they approach and when the person steps back they can't successfully get their paws on the person anyway.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I am teaching Flip an exam similar to Stephanie. He knows how to stay, just not if someone is petting/examining him. So as soon as the person starts to approach him, the treats start coming his way. He is so preoccupied with the treats that he barely even notices the other person. 

Something I picked up from a Debby Quigley seminar....put dog in a stand and have someone just walk past the dog. As the person is walking past, toss a treat and release the dog to the treat. Continue until the dog doesn't even bother to glance at the person walking past, he's just focused on you getting ready to toss a treat.

Next step would be to have that person touch dog on head. As soon as the hand gets on the head, toss the treat and release. Continue to progress with more and more interaction from the person. Anytime the dog takes his focus from you to the person, the rest of the exercise is aborted, go ahead and toss the treat and release. 

The end result should be a dog who is totally focused on the thought of being released to the treat and might even start drooling as a person does an examine. The person becomes your "bell."


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

Are you taking an obediance class? They can teach you the moves.

But let me just say this, by seven months Abby had stopped jumping on people and had great manners.

But Finn, my lab took WAY longer. He is 2 1/2 now and really was still jumping on people occasionally until he was almost 2. I had to work on prevention instead of extinction for a long time bacause I just couldn't trust him. He is not particularly people motivated either, he wants all dogs, any dogs, whereas Abby will be good because she wants to be petted. 

Both of my dogs get the same amount of exercise but Finn is much, much stronger than Abby and he is only 75 pounds. At this point his manners are passable but they are going to get better because I am not going to stop working on it.

He is a very good dog. Some dogs just take more training.


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## turtle66 (Feb 19, 2010)

Not too much advice since I am a first time dog owner myself. Just reassurance that it'll get better - with training and training and training. I do a little bit the "reddog method". When I see Lilly would love to go to meet people I let her sit as soon as I notice. That usually works great by now....a different problem is when she is off leash in the doggy park.....
Well, well - still learning....
Heike


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have trained dogs, however Quinn is our first "live wire". So some of the tactics I have used before are not working. Also, there is a lot we never had to teach our dogs just did it. Lucky I know. I am up to the challenge, and I hope my next golden is a "live wire" so I need to learn. 

Ann


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

Maxs Mom said:


> Ok mine is NOT a golden but you folks let me talk about my labs (thank you!) and *a puppy is a puppy*! - Any thoughts would be appreciated. Quinn is 7 months old. So this has gone on way too long. Bad owners we know.
> 
> Ann


Ann,

You're correct; a puppy is a puppy. And obedience is obdience. That is what your puppy needs, and I don't just mean acquainting her with what the commands are. I mean training. Training is a three phase process, and far too often it gets cut short at the first phase; 'teaching'. While teaching is the first and most important, it is only part of the process.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO7zJpCsKQc

EvanG


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