# AKC points question



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> I'm thinking of entering the Tito monster in some smaller shows the end of May.
> So I'm already sitting here counting up his points (aw come on, he could get one.....) and I looked at the AKC points chart for our division.
> 
> My question is....do you count your own dog in the number shown in the chart??? For example, for a 3 point major in our division we need 21 dogs. Is that 21 PLUS Tito, or 21 including Tito???
> ...


It is the total number of dogs entered, which includes your dog. However, the number of points is determined by the number actually SHOWN. So, if the judging program comes back indicating a major, but dogs are absent, it could "break" the major down to single points.

I'm sure you know how to read entry breakdowns, but in case you don't:

23-27 (4-2) means 23 class dogs, 27 class bitches, 4 dog specials and 2 bitch specials. *Any numbers AFTER the ones in parenthesis are exhibition only - not counted in the points. The points are determined BY THE CLASS animals. However, if there is no major in dogs, but there is in bitches, and your dog goes BEst Of Winners, you get the major from the bitches (so does the bitch). And, should go BOB from the classes, then the specials beaten are ALSO counted into the points because they are included in total number defeated.

Confused?:bowl:


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

Do you want to go one confusing point further? If the BOW (Best of Winners) goes BOB (Best of Breed) earning 2 points (as an example) and then takes a Group 1st the dog is awarded the highest number of points awarded to breeds in that group. So if a Spinone went BOW/BOB with 1 point and then took sporting group 1 and there was a 4 point major in Labradors (as an example) that Spinone leaves with 4 points.

LOL


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks, I didn't know what the ones after the parenthesis were. I saw them as 0's for the shows I was looking at, and wondered what they were all about!
The first time he wins anything, I will be posting the numbers there and you can help me sort out whether or not he got a point! He has to get at least winners dog, right?






Pointgold said:


> I'm sure you know how to read entry breakdowns, but in case you don't:
> 
> 23-27 (4-2) means 23 class dogs, 27 class bitches, 4 dog specials and 2 bitch specials. *Any numbers AFTER the ones in parenthesis are exhibition only - not counted in the points. The points are determined BY THE CLASS animals. However, if there is no major in dogs, but there is in bitches, and your dog goes BEst Of Winners, you get the major from the bitches (so does the bitch). And, should go BOB from the classes, then the specials beaten are ALSO counted into the points because they are included in total number defeated.
> 
> Confused?:bowl:


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

sheeesh. so confusing. At least you put down what the BOW and BOB meant for me, I even get lost with those!
Ok, so if (now I'm just being silly here) there are only 3 goldens, but it's a labrador supported show and there are 30 labs, and my dog gets BOB in the goldens and then defeats the BOB lab and gets a sporting group 1, he would get a major, even though there are only 3 goldens at the show. Right???



MurphyTeller said:


> Do you want to go one confusing point further? If the BOW (Best of Winners) goes BOB (Best of Breed) earning 2 points (as an example) and then takes a Group 1st the dog is awarded the highest number of points awarded to breeds in that group. So if a Spinone went BOW/BOB with 1 point and then took sporting group 1 and there was a 4 point major in Labradors (as an example) that Spinone leaves with 4 points.
> 
> LOL


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> sheeesh. so confusing. At least you put down what the BOW and BOB meant for me, I even get lost with those!
> Ok, so if (now I'm just being silly here) there are only 3 goldens, but it's a labrador supported show and there are 30 labs, and my dog gets BOB in the goldens and then defeats the BOB lab and gets a sporting group 1, he would get a major, even though there are only 3 goldens at the show. Right???


Well....IF 30 labs was a major - and it's not 30 labs total it'd have to be 30 lab dogs or 30 lab bitches. In Canada (CKC) you count both dogs and bitches for points if you take BOW. In the US (AKC) you only count the dogs of the same sex unless you take the breed over specials - and even then you only count the specials of both sexes - not the other sexed class dogs...

so..lets say you have Dog #4 who takes WD (winners dog).

There were two 6-9 puppy dogs, one 9-12 puppy dogs, three 12-18 puppy dogs, two Am-bred and Five open dogs (including dog #4). That's 13 dogs (which in my division is 2 points). Lets say that there were 23 bitches (that's 3 points). If WB is the BOW it's still two points for dog #4. If WD is BOW its now 3 points for WD. Now, lets say that WD goes BOW for those three points - then he beats 25 specials of both sexes - those specials count towards his points but the class bitches still don't count in that total...so in this case WD/BOW/BOB (13 class dogs + 25 specials = 38 dogs defeated) would actually get 4 points for that show. 

And of course these "numbers" depend on which division you're showing in..cross state lines and the numbers may change drastically.

Erica


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I think we'll just try to win a class for now 



MurphyTeller said:


> Well....IF 30 labs was a major - and it's not 30 labs total it'd have to be 30 lab dogs or 30 lab bitches. In Canada (CKC) you count both dogs and bitches for points if you take BOW. In the US (AKC) you only count the dogs of the same sex unless you take the breed over specials - and even then you only count the specials of both sexes - not the other sexed class dogs...
> 
> so..lets say you have Dog #4 who takes WD (winners dog).
> 
> ...


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Im getting dizzy! LOLOLOL


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> Thanks, I didn't know what the ones after the parenthesis were. I saw them as 0's for the shows I was looking at, and wondered what they were all about!
> The first time he wins anything, I will be posting the numbers there and you can help me sort out whether or not he got a point! He has to get at least winners dog, right?


 
Yes. Only Winners (dog or bitch) earn points towards a championship.


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

You don't know how hard it was for me to learn these rules all alone. I just READ and READ and READ books and articles. It's so confusing.. I know. I still get confused with all the BOB, OS winning rules at times...


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

goldengirls550 said:


> You don't know how hard it was for me to learn these rules all alone. I just READ and READ and READ books and articles. It's so confusing.. I know. I still get confused with all the BOB, OS winning rules at times...


 
Here is what I tell newbies: If you win a class, STAY RINGSIDE. If you are second in your class, STAY RINGSIDE (Because if the dog that was 1st in the same class wins the points, you will then go in for Reserve. ) Otherwise, just smile and ask the ring stewrd to keep you where you need to be  I still have students who I watch show who I spin right around as they are coming out of the ring heading towrads the setup and say "Get back in there and do it again!"
It all becomes second nature after about 2 hundred years.


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> Here is what I tell newbies: If you win a class, STAY RINGSIDE. If you are second in your class, STAY RINGSIDE (Because if the dog that was 1st in the same class wins the points, you will then go in for Reserve. )


Thanks for clarifying that. I had no idea about this rule and I have been meaning to ask about it since I watched a 2nd place Open bitch at my last show go reserve.


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