# Growling at other dogs



## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Y'all know I am terrified of dog fights. Daisy was attacked once when she was a year old and I had to break it up. Daisy was bitten several times and I got bit once. It was positively the worst experience.

I know those two things combined, Daisy getting attacked and my fear of dog fights, has something to do with her current behavior, and mine. With that said....

The other morning we were at the vets office. All was well, no dogs were there but as we were leaving, someone came in with two big labs. My immediate reaction was to pull Daisy in on her leash, because I didn't know these dogs!!  Then the growling started. I'm not sure if Daisy growled first or the other dogs, but soon they were all growling. Of course, I wasn't going to let Daisy get anywhere near the dogs. 

Analyze this please. Thanks!!!


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Well I think you're right- that your reaction and nervousness contributes to her growling. Try to calm down (I know that's hard, especially if it's an instant reaction). If you do have a place you can walk where other dogs are around, but leashed and some distance away, try training her there- distract her, reward her for ignoring them, or for any time she watches them and does not growl or tense up.


----------



## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

I sometimes worry about my Honey. She was always the most laid back dog, loved everyone and all dogs. Then when we were at my brother's for Hurricane Rita, his bassette hound would growl at Honey and try to fitht. That was not normal for Belle at all and my brother was really upset. Belle didn't mess with KayCee, just honey. We were keeping Honey inside all the time because they have such a low fence in the back and Honey could probably jump over it and we were scared that her being in a strange place, and if she saw squirrels or a der on the other side of the fence she might jump it. KayCee stayed inside all the time as well just because Honey had to. But Every time Belle came in, she wanted to fight Honey and by the time we left, Honey was returning the growls and had her hackles up.

A couple of months later I had her at the vet and a huge fox hound, on leash, came out of one of the exam rooms. Honey was all wiggle butt, tail sweeping the floor and that fox hound rasied hackles and started growling at her and this time her tail stopped at once and she returned the raised hackles, snal and got up. Now I am almost scared to met up with another dog. I don't know why those two acted towards Honey like that did. Got me that Belle was that way with Honey, but not KayCee. My brother was so mad at Belle he wouldn't let her back in til we left. Said there was no call for that. If she resented dogs being in her space, why didn't she start something with KayCee as well. Was just Honey.


----------



## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Well, I do ernestly believe that's there's a reason why some dogs don't like other dogs, and I think as owners, if we have our dogs long enough, we will eventually encounter that kind of dynamic. I think the dogs understand but we're clueless usually.

ACC, the only place I know of to walk Daisy where other dogs are around and leashed is at the river trail. But I don't take her there anymore because the river rock is not good for her ACL injury. I think taking her there would be very frustrating for her, she'd only want to get in the river but I can't let her. Too risky.

We do occasionally meet dogs at the lake and she's fine. I do leash her when one comes around, just in case, but she's always fine. The other dogs just walk on by, I distract Daisy however, and it's no big deal. 

I think in this case it was the closed environment and being so close to the dogs as they came in, and then me (stupid me) so quickly reeling her in. I do believe all of the dogs were reacting to *me* !! 

I NEED THERAPY!!!


----------



## hgatesy (Feb 14, 2007)

Park occasionally does this too. The trainer in the class we're currently taken seems to think that a lot of it has to do with how Bentley was towards him, which has now made him weary of some other dogs. 

I also think a lot has to do with my reaction when other dogs approach. I used to never be nervous, but now... loose dogs and even some on leashes make me weary. 

If I am calm and use my "stupid baby voice".... "ohhhhhhhhh, he's nice, look at the pretty puppy" Park tends to be more tolerate of other dogs. If I'm nervous, I think Park senses that and will snap or growl when a dog gets too close. All though a few times it's been completely different. Take for instance our neighbors dog Maggie. (big old rolly polly lab that could only hurt a fly if she sat on it) came out onto the road to say hi and I did the "ohh, hi maggie, look Maggie loves you" and Park growled at her and wanted nothing to do with her. The next time we walk by, he's fine. Go figure.

Maybe I should get therapy with you Jo Ellen!!


----------



## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I didn't think to try the, ohhhhh loook Daisy, nice doggies .... I should have done that! I'll make a note to myself about that for the next time.

But still I'm nervous. Even if they do the meet and greet well, sometimes it seems like if one turns the wrong way, that's all it takes for things to go wrong. So even if things look like they're going well, I'm still holding Daisy back to some extent. 

I once enlisted the help of a local dog behaviorist for this problem but she was diagnosed with cancer before we could do anything. I haven't seen her business open at all lately. 

I would trust Cesar to help me but he's too busy : Can you imagine, Hgatesy, letting our dogs loose into Cesar's pack? Have you seen that show where he takes some dogs home with him for "extensive" rehabilitation? I cringe at the thought of it !!!


----------



## tintallie (May 31, 2006)

This has happened on occasion with dogs that Wiggles is unfamiliar with. I hate it most when the dog owners says, "Oh don't worry, my dog is friendly."

Wiggles is dominant for the most part and WILL NOT let any dog try to mount him and I have seen some owners say, "He normally doesn't do that...don't worry about it."

Unless I know the dog, I am less inclined to let my dog visit with someone else's because a few times Wiggles has been charged by other dogs and they tried to go for his neck.

Some dogs do make me nervous, but that nervous energy can be sensed by the dog, so what I try to do when there is a dog approaching, I will put Wiggles in a sit stay and wait for the other dog and owner to walk by. If he tries to get up, I correct him on his prong collar.

At other times, I have noticed Wiggles trying to put an offensive on and will stalk along the ground like a cat and I've had to interrupt his behaviour.


----------



## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Dogs with dogs are tricky, aren't they? If they didn't have such gosh darn big TEETH!!


----------



## Tom (Mar 3, 2007)

Jo Ellen, I think that Daisy immediately sensed your tension when the two labs arrived in the room. You probably stood a little straighter, held the leash a little tighter, and watched carefully. Daisy did the same, and let the interlopers know that she was ready to defend the space that she shared with you. Lacey's never really displayed true aggressive behavior in my opinion. However, there have been occasions where I've made sure we've given wide berth to unfamiliar dogs coming the other way. Sometimes those dogs begin to pull at their leash and growl. In these cases, I just tell Lacey to sit (which she does, bless her heart) as we let the other dog pass.


----------



## hgatesy (Feb 14, 2007)

Jo Ellen... I have seen that, and I've also seen where he roller blades with what seems like millions of dogs! No way!

I agree with still being nervous. I am always on edge as well, just because it only takes a split second. Yesterday we were up at a rally and an old man came up to us with his old dog. Things were fine until the dog sniffed the spot on Park's back where his hot spot was. Then Park growled and tried to nip the dog. So, just in one second things changed.

tintallie.... Those are the famous last words as my husband and I say. "Oh, don't worry... he/she is friendly" as their giant loose dog comes barrelling up the road at me. I hate that phrase! I want to scream, that's great... but maybe MY dog isn't! :doh:


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

You tightening up on the leash is a HUGE cue for her that something scary is about to happen. Often in cases of dog arousal and aggression, it's the handler that triggers the growl with our reaction.

The first thing I'd be doing is teaching her that a tight leash is a good thing. It's unlikely that we can train YOU to not suddenly tense up, so let's counter-condition those cues in the dog's mind. You can practice on your own. Tight leash = cookie, etc. Make a list of all the things YOU do when you get nervous around other dogs work on those... You tense up, probably suck in your breath a bit, death grip on the leash, pull her back, etc.

Won't completely fix the problem, but it's an important piece of the puzzle.

-S


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

PS - when trainers do what we call "growl classes" which are group classes for dogs with dog issues (dogs are muzzled, etc.) one of the first things people are taught to do in the class is to drop the leash when the dogs start to interact. It's amazing how much better interactions tend to go when we (the humans) aren't adding all sorts of input via the leash.


----------



## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

{{{GULP}}}

Drop the leash. Maybe AFTER therapy ROTFL

Actually, in all honesty, all of the times I have dropped the leash, the encounter and interaction have gone very well. I understand completely and I agree totally ... take me OUT of the picture and there's probably not going to be any issue at all.

_Probably :uhoh: _


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I know dropping the leash is a huge leap, that's why I suggested counter conditioning to the tight leash. Plus, in some areas, it's not safe to drop the leash.

Do try and keep it loose, tho'.

-S


----------



## Goldndust (Jul 30, 2005)

Don't pull on lead Jo Ellen, use your commands for this.

You can totally avoid tension by using only your commands or signals as well as keeping them in a heel in situations such as this.

Example would be, "Heel".

I think there may have been a few things possibly going on in this case you mention. One i'm thinking was direct eye contact of the the labs coming in, while you were going out. Another thing you don't mention is where were all the dogs at the time. Meaning were they out in front of owner? If so then that would add too the problem. Not sure which one growled first, so that is something we don't know but yet could help in the analyzing. If it were the labs that growled first, then it could have been Daisy moving into protection of you and her space at the time.

The tension and pulling on the lead definately added to it all though, as did your anxiety. Daisy feels that anxiety without you even pulling on the lead though. She knows it. She also knows when your relaxed.


----------



## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Thank you, GD. I appreciate your input on this.

I wish Daisy were trained well enough to rely only on commands in situations like this.

The front door where the labs came in was just a few feet from the counter where I was paying my bill just before leaving. I really was consumed with my own anxiety at the time, I couldn't possibly tell exactly what happened and who did what and when. Bad mommy, yes :curtain: 

I do know though that dogs growl for lots of reasons and sometimes, correct me if I'm wrong, it really doesn't necessarily mean they're ready to fight. It seems to me growling is Daisy's first response whenever she sees another dog. I think it's her way of saying "hey, a dog!"


----------

