# Still working with "aggression", any help?



## norabrown (Jul 20, 2007)

{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I hear your frustration and concern. I wish I had words of wisdom. Im sure some of the trainers on here will try to help.


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

Oakly till about a year old would have a tantrum near the end of our walks as we walked the final block to the house. He still does it once in a while. He never did the growling but would jump right at my face. I did the same things you described to try to get him refocused. I would often have to stop every few steps till I was able to get him back on heel. 

Sorry I can't offer what the trigger might be for Daisy but hope that time will settle down the 1% holy terror in her.


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## Lisa_and_Willow. (Dec 18, 2007)

Can you decribe more about how she attacks you? Does she jump up at you and grab whatever she can, arms, hands etc and jump away again or does she grab and hold?

When out on the walks do you correct her for attacking the leash and then she turns on you?

I could be very wrong here but she sounds way too over excited. 1 year isn't very old. Perhaps a head collar would make life easier. She couldn't start on the leash or you if you had that control over where her head is going.


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## Daisy n Me (May 17, 2007)

Hearing that Oakly had tantrums definitely makes me feel slightly better!

I can get her back into control eventually... she is very strong willed though and it seems like it is always such a battle.... She will sit when I tell her mid-attack--usually I pull up on the leash and give a firm "Sit", not loosening until she does so. Then she will sit and glare at me, teeth fully bared. I'll make her down next and she will still be giving me that snarling face. If I reach toward her, she snaps at me. 

I really wish I knew what the trigger was.

Yeah she's definitely just a puppy, and maybe it is excitement. It just doesn't seem like play. If I correct her for attacking the leash she does turn on me. I usually use a chain leash now though, so she usually just attacks me. She bites whatever she can and clamps down and then bites again. Hand, arm, leg, etc. One time we were out in the yard and she leapt up and bit the back of my thigh... I had a big bloody welt for awhile. I like to have her off leash in the fields so she can run around daily, I feel like she gets the best exercise this way and would hate to keep her on leash all of the time.

Are you talking about a gentle leader kind of collar?


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## Kory P (Dec 23, 2007)

Good Luck, I can only imagine how upset this must make you.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Do you think it is "aggression" or that she is playing with you as if you are another dog?

When Brady first sees his Golden Retriever cousin Wallace, they will greet each other baring their teeth and both growling at each other. They both look psycho, and then the attack and roll for the next ten minutes. They love each other, but any stranger would think different.

I would try to find a good trainer that is willing to evaluate her and work with her. I had a German Shepherd that I had some problems with, once I found the right trainer (I had a few trainers tell me to put him down without even meeting him), he became a different dog.

Good luck!


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## Daisy n Me (May 17, 2007)

I'd like to think she thinks it's play, that's why I put aggression in the quotes. I feel like that term is just a quick fix and not usually the issue. I have been showing her this is unacceptable play with me (although I guess I must be failing at getting the point across.) I have seen her play with other dogs and the look on her face is different and more playful then... but I just don't know.


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## My4Boys (Dec 14, 2007)

No advice here but wanted you to know that I am sorry that you find yourself dealing with this with Daisy, and hope that you find a solution soon! We had/have the same leash issue with Baxter 1/2 the time we are walking him but fortunately he gets it when we grab his scruff and correct him, but the next time out, he will surely try it again. I will keep my eyes and ears open for a possible solution.


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

Oaklys Dad said:


> Oakly till about a year old would have a tantrum near the end of our walks as we walked the final block to the house. He still does it once in a while. He never did the growling but would jump right at my face. I did the same things you described to try to get him refocused. I would often have to stop every few steps till I was able to get him back on heel.
> 
> Sorry I can't offer what the trigger might be for Daisy but hope that time will settle down the 1% holy terror in her.


That's so weird, Charlie did (and occassionally still does) the same thing. He usually waits til he sees our house. It's kinda funny, but I still let him know that's it's NOT OK.


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## Lisa_and_Willow. (Dec 18, 2007)

Daisy n Me said:


> Are you talking about a gentle leader kind of collar?


Yes, Gentle Leader or Halti. My GSD was fear aggressive to other dogs after he was attacked and when he saw one he would lunge and bark then try and run away. As you can imagine holding on to an 83lb Shepherd wasn't easy! I tried the Halti to give me more control and although we both didn't like it it worked really well. We don't use it any more as he is a lot better.

It is just a suggestion as I am not sure how well it would work on Daisy but maybe it could be worth a try. Good luck!


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## Joanne & Asia (Jul 23, 2007)

Your description of Daisy's behaviour and temperment 99% of the time sounds exactly like Asia. I do not have the problem with her being aggresive(if that is what daisy is actually doing) toward me or any other human but do with the one out of a hundred dogs. She goes from a gentle submissive girl to a psycho killer. No biting but load growling, snarling teeth baring and take down manouvers. Our trainer says it is a dominance issue and says we need to continue correcting her and putting her in downs and generally making her know we are the pack leaders. I definately understand your frustration. We can go for many weeks with no problems and then bang. I hope you get more advice that is helpful. Daisy is still quite young so maybe she will mellow. Good luck with it .


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

My DIL's bearded collie does this same exact thing....when she is almost home on their walk, Cody, will start to growl, bite and struggle on the leash. Her mother told her that he was coo-coo in the head but I really don't think so. He's still a pup at 9-1/2 mo old and he has other behaviors that I would just chalk up to being an untrained adolescent--counter surfing (big time), jumping up on people, etc. I agree with Marie on this one, find yourself a really good dog behaviorst and see if they can find out where this behavior stems from.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

wow, I'm so sorry you are still having these problems. I agree with the suggestion of find a really good behaviourist and having them the observe and pinpoint what's setting her off. Keep looking for a good trainer. Where are you located? I know there are trainers on the board who might be able to recommend someone for you.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE find a good behaviorist ASAP! Your dog is young so with the proper guidance can blossom into a fabulous grown-up. Without it, and I have seen this many times, things may not turn out so well. I am being completely honest here - I just put down a dog last year who was not salvageable. Her owners were the nicest people but they never got her proper training when she began showing issues like what you are describing. It escalated into her becoming a dangerous dog. It was a sad existence for her and heartbreaking for the family. 

Good luck!!!


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Your vet may even be able to direct you to someone who may help. I think that is how we found help for my German Shepherd.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

This might help in locating a good trainer. 

http://www.apdt.com/po/ts/us/default.aspx


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Get a good trainer, someone who is experienced in aggression and who (and I can't stress this enough!) will use dog-friendly, reward-based methods.

Violence begets violence. Correction-based training may mask the symptom and give the illusion of fixing the problem, but it will eventually get worse. Correcting her in ways just cuz we can "leash pops, scruff shakes, alpha rolls, etc. is mostly ego-based on our part. The dog is carrying a lethal weapon in her mouth. Don't make her feel she has to use it. Teach and reward different behaviors and learn how to catch the warning signs of her freak out behavior. A good trainer can help you with all of that.

A full vet check up with complete thyroid panel is also a good idea. APDT is a good place to start for finding a trainer.

In the meantime, I'd second the suggestion of a Gentle Leader head collar. Desensitize for a week first just by putting on, feeding treats and taking it off.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Have you had her evaluated Liz? Has she been to the vet to see if she has any medical condition? Do you notice a change in diet (was reading a publication today) and behavior?


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## dogwalker81 (Jan 16, 2008)

*Any luck?*

I was just reading your post and wondered if you have had any luck? Our dog is 10 months old and just until a week ago was doing the exact same thing you talked about (great inside, but outside on a leash would jump, growl, grab the leash). It really scared me. I tried shaking the can, stepping on the leash, grabbing her by the scruff of the neck and all that just seemed to make it worse. I read on the forum about putting red hot pepper sauce on the leash so I soaked her leash in it. The first couple of walks she would still grab the leash but no jumping or growling. Now it has been about 2 weeks and she is not doing any of it (just have to work on the leash pulling - but at this point, that is fine!). My husband hasn't tried taking her outside yet, he is just walking with her on the leash inside the house (because she was worse with him). It is hard to tell since we just adopted her about 6 weeks ago from the shelter why she does this - but I am guessing she was never on a leash before and just went beserk being restrained like that. Good luck - I know it feels good to know we are not alone.


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## Penny'smom (Mar 3, 2007)

I feel for you and have no advice better than what's already been given.

I just wanted you to know you're not alone! Penny took a long time to outgrow her agressive behavior. I realised after she was older that all of her 'agressiveness' was really excitement. Just like 2 dogs playing can look and sound as if they're killing each other? Penny would 'attack' me, too. She doesn't jump and do it face to face like yours, she zeros in on feet.

Just this morning at the barn, she decided out of the blue to attack my feet. She was laying quietly waiting for me to finish chores and I thought "she looks so regal and sweet" when I approached. She got up and start in on me: lunging and backing, growling and snarling, showing teeth, barking and biting. I have no idea why she went from serenely laying in the snow watching the road to attack mode, but something triggered it.

The benefit of having lived through 6 years of this is that now when I say quit, or let's get in the car, or where's dad? she can be redirected and forgets about what she was doing.

I hate to say this will go on forever, but I don't think exciteable dogs ever become placid 100% of the time. Maturity and obedience training covers the times when it's necessary to rein them in a bit.

Good luck. These dogs are a handful, but they're worth it. Most people would have sent Penny to rescue (I threatened her a lot without intending to follow through ::smooch. I just couldn't give up on her. She's a wonderful pet and just has a few moments now and then.


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## jnmarr (Mar 7, 2008)

*Rusty & Penny's mom*

:wavey: Hello,
 Sounds to me like you have had great advice so far. My Rusty just turned 2... and FINALLY this behavior has nearly stopped. I feel your pain.. and embarassment! We finally determined, with the help of a professional behavioral trainer.. in Rusty's case.. was a mischivious invitation to play.. and on walks just plain mischief! On walks I would keep the leash so that he couldn't make contact, while turning around, and if possible would down him, and hold him there. Not an alpha roll over.. but I had to make certain he knew I dissaproved ... I noticed also on walks certain places where he had started in the past would become trigger spots.. and he would do it again.. At first we avoided these places, then one at a time would do training there.. In the back yard it just as you discribed.. I tried it all.. the trainer advised us, because Rusty was an only child at that time and so focused on us.. and was most likely attempting to play, etc. to just turn our backs on him with our arms folded.. If he continued we would stomp off into the house, leaving him alone in the yard. Now I say a firm " stop it ".. he is outgrowing it.. finally... maybe a half hearted flying attempt and then he will just run around me.. He has a sister now.. and they play together.. I see her treating him that way, so it is most likely normal dog behavior.. They go through several rebellious stages, and this is a doozie! 
 Best of luck!


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## Hiltonrio (Jan 19, 2008)

I had a wonderful pup that now is Oak's bro and Rob's son but I always had dogs around since I was born, and all German Sheppards (my family and my bro loved them). Caue was the first Golden I had, he never showed any sign of aggression but a couple of times he was running after his tail, he was just plain bored, I didn't have enough time for him, now I would bet he gave it up (hope I'm right Rob )

More than Goldens I think German Sheppards tend to portrait at times the trait you're pointing out. I don't know if that's going to work with you but what I learned from home (my grandpa was an amazing pack leader) and with German Sheppards was pure demostration of leadership.

When puppies turn to 4 to 5 months they start to challenge the leadership role, that will happen 'till they're about 14 months, so there's a change Daise is still challenging the leadership position with you. 

When we walk with our dogs they feel more tempted than ever to dispute the position.

I wish I knew exactly what to say to help you, from what you described the aggression is light, but one thing that turned out effective in every case was the walk, but in a sense of demostration of leadership, i.e.:

- not letting her/him take the "lead" or the "font".
- you, as a leader, dictates where you want to go instead of where she wants to go sniff

Something that helps is not letting her nose on the ground too often, walk in a steady pace and keep her head off the ground (they can get too hooked on sniffing). The other thing was a lot of discipline exercises, Golden Retrievers are like German Sheppards: very intelligent and need the stimulus, if done not yet try to go beyond the sit, down, stay commands, keep on expanding, they love it and get used to the hierarchy.

You seem like a wonderful mom, she seems very sweet but way too smart and independent, she will get back on track soon I'm sure. 

Best


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

Just a question, since I noticed it hasn't been addressed yet..........

Has she been checked over medically? Thoroughly? Have you spoken with your Vet about the behavior? Has a full thyroid panel been run? Here's some information about what a malfunctioning thyroid can do:

THYROID CAN ALTER BEHAVIOR

BIZARRE BEHAVIORAL CHANGES? CHECK YOUR

DOG FOR HYPOTHYROIDISM

By W. Jean Dodds, DVM

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/bizarre_behavior.htm

Please have her checked over before getting a trainer/behaviorist involved. They can't do anything if the behavior is due to a medical issue. Once you've gotten the all clear......then a trainer/behaviorist is definitely needed.

I hope you figure this out and can get her settled down soon. It reminds me of our boy Murphy, but we weren't the targets, other dogs were, and who knows what set him off. He'd just go beserk.....out of the blue......for no reason. Unfortunately he just wasn't wired right. But we kept him until the day he died of cancer, at 10 years old. We had to adjust our household for him.....and for the safety of the other dogs.

Best of luck, and please keep us posted.


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## Bogart'sMom (Sep 16, 2005)

Ardeagold said:


> Just a question, since I noticed it hasn't been addressed yet..........
> 
> Has she been checked over medically? Thoroughly? Have you spoken with your Vet about the behavior? Has a full thyroid panel been run? Here's some information about what a malfunctioning thyroid can do:
> 
> ...


I was going to ask the same thing, that came to my mind also. I would talk to my Vet or maybe I know it's expensive (but she is so young) if her blood penal comes back clean go to a specialist for a CT scan of the brain she might have a tumor or such pressing on her brain and she turns a switch on. I don't want to scare you and I'm just throwing sugestions in but I don't think she is playing. Maybe ask the Vet about a sickness the spaniels get. Where all of a sudden they get agressive and then are back to normal. My trainer calls it like a sizure where the dog doesn't even know what it did a min before. I hope you get to the bottom of this, it sounds very dangerous not just for you but also visitors or kids.
All the best,


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## Coffee'sDad (Mar 10, 2008)

Hope this resolves for you soon. Does Daisy get enough exercise? Good luck...


dg


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## HALEY (Jul 21, 2008)

*I Understand*

I Really Feel For You, We Are Going Through The Same Thing Right Now, And She Just Jumps Out Of The Blue And Bites. We Are Taking Her For Blood Work To See If It Is Medical Or Behavorial.. She Is Trying My Parents Patience.


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## lynnzieandme (Sep 27, 2009)

*im so sorry*

im so sorry about daisy i went through the same thing with a dog i had devistading i know its horrible to see our dogs go from sweet puppies into uncentrolible dogs

did u buy daisy from an animal shelter or a breede?r if a breeder ,how was the condisoun of her home was their lots of other dogs?

or iv heard of a type of disease or ilnnes were the dog uncetrolible snaps out that what my dog had does she cowor after the atack?

im so sorry again, but for my dog their was nothing we could do (couse we didnt know what to do) but im inciriging u to keep doing what your doing keep finding prefosinals and other people ill help u as much as i can hope it works out for u and daisy


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

My Maggie did this for awhile when she was young. For a time I carried a walking stick, not to hit her with but to put between us when she started acting up. For some reason she respected that stick and when I would shake the stick and say a firm "no" it got her attention and broke the spell. *She did out grow it.* I still have an old down coat with patches on the arms from where she tore it.


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## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

Is there any news on How Daisy is doing now???


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## Daisy n Me (May 17, 2007)

Hey, thanks for asking. Daisy is doing well. She's now 2.5 years old (wow) and still has her crazy spells (only outside), but I've definitely become a more experienced dog handler and I think she is calming with age. I love her dearly despite her quirks. 

I'm attaching a recent picture a trip upstate to Lake Champlain last month.

Thanks for asking about us.


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## Faith's mommy (Feb 26, 2007)

It's almost impossible to believe that that big girl is our little Daisy!

I still picture her like this!


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## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

aww Daisy is beautiful!!! Glad things are going well, thats great news!!!


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

I can still picture her flopping down right before the finish line in Albany.....love this pupper and miss her Mom's posts!


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## Faith's mommy (Feb 26, 2007)

oh, not just at the end! she was a very smart little girl. anytime we got near a shade tree she'd make a beeline for it and lay down. i still remember Dave wanted to kidnap her and keep her even though she was constantly using his hands and fingers as chew toys.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Oh my goodness she has grown up so much! It's so good to see her again. I wish I got to walk with you guys, but I was pretty busy. I think I missed a lot!


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

Faith's mommy said:


> oh, not just at the end! she was a very smart little girl. anytime we got near a shade tree she'd make a beeline for it and lay down. i still remember Dave wanted to kidnap her and keep her even though she was constantly using his hands and fingers as chew toys.





Kimm said:


> Oh my goodness she has grown up so much! It's so good to see her again. I wish I got to walk with you guys, but I was pretty busy. I think I missed a lot!


That was a fun, but way too short day.
Kim, did I ever tell you...you were at the front desk when we checked in. I looked at you and thought "I'll bet that's Kim!" I don't think I'd ever seen a picture. lol


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

moverking said:


> That was a fun, but way too short day.
> Kim, did I ever tell you...you were at the front desk when we checked in. I looked at you and thought "I'll bet that's Kim!" I don't think I'd ever seen a picture. lol


No, you didn't tell me. I'll bet my mouth was going...LOL I'm so glad I got to meet you and Sharon. I'm so glad I got to meet so many forum members.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Daisy is gorgeous. Did you ever have the vet check her out for any physical cause or did you work with a behaviorist?


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## slechner (Sep 5, 2008)

I read your message about Penny's behaviour. My dog boomer is a year and a half old and I have had a behavourist over and he still has his moments where he shows his teeth. He doesn't like putting on gentle leaders or any kind of harness. If I get them out and try to take him towards them, he shows his teeth or hides. Overall, he is fine. He used to lunge a lot but seems to have given that up. I really had moments when I wondered if keeping him was the right thing because he doesn't seem like a typical golden but I love him too much to give him up. My kids are older, so he doesn't bother with them much.


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