# Long Down--Oh no!



## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

So things were going well at the show and go today, getting ready for our first open trials the end of October. Casey did great (I managed to hit the jump with the dumbell and had to throw again...**** handler!). However, a huge problem developed during the group downs. An intact male dalmation ran across the other dogs, jumped on Casey and started to hump him!! (The same dog did the same thing to another dog earlier in the novice downs--his owner was beside him, wanting to practice again with the open dogs--obviously not watching carefully enough) He must have *really* startled Casey, who often threatens to go to sleep on the long down! By the time I ran back into the room, Casey was meeting me at the door in quite a panic. I managed to settle him again, and he seemed fine...as long as I was standing across the room. I think now that I should have stayed in the room *(duh!!) *but I slipped out again, planning to watch him from the window and he broke the down and ran to me. I put him back again, and this time stayed in the room. He was fine with me in sight, but in his "sphinx" stance, not his normal, relaxed posture. He has always acted as if the group stays were "safe" places to be, and now I am worried that he is going to have issues. Is there anything I should be doing? I am thinking that doing a lot of practice in sight for the next while would be in the plan...maybe I am over reacting and my "bomb proof" guy will be fine. What do you think? Emergency email also sent to my coach!


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Oooh, that sucks  Do you go to classes with other dogs so that you can practice there?


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

Yes we do train with other dogs. He knows those other dogs, though. I have heard about things like this happening (esp. big dogs vs small ones) but never have seen it at either trials or show and gos or ever expected it to happen to my happy go lucky guy. I am worried that in unfamiliar places he will react badly...hopefully just mom's anxiety!


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

What you can do is find someone he knows, or that you trust, and have them put him back each time he breaks, so you can still work out of sight stays.

At the same time, I would stay in the room but up the distractions and stress he gets. Our training group used to get out the battery operated toys and let them go (barking dog who flips, remote control cars with things tied to the back like bits of rabbit fur), they would walk in and around the dogs, squeak squeaky toys and bounce balls, and even do retrieves with balls with one dog while the rest stayed put.

In your case, I'd have someone do heelwork around the room while you're gone, use him as a post for the figure 8 (but do big circles first), have a dog do recalls past him (closer and closer to him as he gets better) - anything to get him into the mindset that there may be other dogs who are loose during HIS stay but that's ok (not all of them are going to hump him). 

True story, we did team obedience and one of the dogs on our team came over and started humping another one - she did NOT move, she just gave her mom a dirty look like that was a bit much for proofing! 

Sorry it happened to you, sometimes those things happen though. My old dog got nailed in the ear for NO reason when leaving the ring from group stays, it was bad enough that nothing (crazy glue, quick stop) was working and we had to go into the ring for ribbons with me holding a towel on his ear. It was then the judge found out and excused the dog.....

Lana


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

Thank you! Those all sound like good suggestions. The "post" one we do every week in our class already. 
My coach is having me come to her novice class for the next couple of weeks during their stays so that she can see how he reacts with dogs he doesn't know so well. She thinks he will be alright in different setting from today (dogs are situational!) Also, he knows our training hall and feels safe there. (Thankfully it is also the site of our first open trial!)
I am beginning to relax about this. Casey is his normal, happy self tonight. I am hoping that I made a bigger thing in my mind about all of this than he did.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I can't wait to read the advice for Casey. We had this issue too, two weeks ago, and Tally is breaking his long stays for the first time in his life. We have two weekends in a row of shows coming up, and I am so worried. In our case, Tally was between an Am Staff and a Boxer who kept eyeing each other, and in the last twenty seconds, the boxer went fot the staffie and a fight broke out. Tally stuck it out for a little while but then bolted to the front of the ring, and I ran out and comforted him(dumb me). I have rarely ever seen dogs fight, and I was scared.


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

So we went to two extra classes this week to practise the stays and Casey was fine. I took him to a show and go tonight (at a different location to where he was "jumped" last week). He did an awesome job on all of his exercises and the long sit, but broke 10 seconds into the long down. The judge put him back into a down and he stayed until I returned...I initially thought he had done great. Back to the drawing board, I guess.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Back it up a step or ten. Go back to a point in your training where OOS groups were easy and build up from there. He can likely use the extra reinforcement and no doubt you'll progress faster this time since you're just making up past progress that's been shaken vs. forging it for the first time.


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Go back to a point in your training where OOS groups were easy and build up from there.


He has NEVER had trouble before with stays of any kind, so I guess I start from scratch?? Should I begin as in novice stays and gradually move further away and for a longer time? Leave, but have others in the room put him back down if he breaks? 

I am interested to see how he does this friday at the training hall where he takes classes. He was fine there last week after "the incident". We have a show and go there on Friday.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Mighty Casey's Mom said:


> He has NEVER had trouble before with stays of any kind, so I guess I start from scratch?? Should I begin as in novice stays and gradually move further away and for a longer time? Leave, but have others in the room put him back down if he breaks?
> 
> I am interested to see how he does this friday at the training hall where he takes classes. He was fine there last week after "the incident". We have a show and go there on Friday.


Maybe start by you going out of sight, but planning on returning often to reward so long as he's in position and if he breaks, a training partner calmly re-sets him so that he doesn't end up getting YOU back by breaking. That's kinda how I'm working Quiz who recently developed an OOS issue.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Do you think he is anxious about the stay now? Is he confused about what is wanted? Is it that stays are boring or that he misses you? Does he remember what he is doing while he's doing it or did he untrain himself and get unsure? How about getting to the show early and practicing mini long stays- like hiding behind a car, around a corner, just briefly so he can be successful and rewarding him hugely? Maybe micro-long stays increasing with success at random places like a car dealership, a school, the mall. . .just to take the show-stress out of the equation while still having a comotion?


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

IMO he has decided that down stays ( not sit stays) are not longer a "safe" place for him.
(dogs are situational)

I agree with Stephanie...do not reward him by returning when he breaks...have a trusted "other" put him back. Last week that worked and he finished the stay. I have heard that the OOS stays are the most difficult ones to correct/fix etc. Never thought that I'd have to deal with it.


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

what we do at show n' gos is have the 'judge' take sticks of cheese and go up and down the line and reward everyone's dog that is still in the correct position.

it's funny, you can tell our training clubs' dogs- they sit at the shows and watch the judge and drool.


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

That is so funny! Usually Casey is the only guy who drools...just the possibility of food at some time in the future does it! I like that idea for promoting OOSS at fun matches though. I am also of the opinion that if you know your dog is going to break in a disruptive way to stay with them or avoid the stays until you know they are not going to cause "issues" for other dogs. I understand that these things happen...however, in Casey's case, it was a long standing issue. If I would have known that in advance I would have pulled him from the exercise.


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

Whoo, hoo! Success at our fun match tonight! He did nice individual exercises (only one crooked front) and held his sits and stays *twice!* (I put him in a second group stay) What a good boy!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

What a relief!


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

Ljilly28 said:


> What a relief!


Yes, it certainly was! This is the place where our next trial is at, the end of October, so I am glad that he stays there! We will keep on practising and rewarding until he is solid again. My coach said he had his head up looking around a lot the first time, so I told him "head" down the second time and he looked much more relaxed. And so it continues!:crossfing


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

It is more than frustrating losing that Q to one of the stays. If it's hot, I have to worry that Tally will give a big sigh in the middle of the sit/stay and go down, no matter how perfectly everything else went.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Today, in open B's down-stay, an aussie got up and immediately started humping the chocolate lab to its right. On the way out of the ring, the guy with the aussie said to some spectators " This always happens !". Hmmmmmmmmmm


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

Ljilly28 said:


> Today, in open B's down-stay, an aussie got up and immediately started humping the chocolate lab to its right. On the way out of the ring, the guy with the aussie said to some spectators " This always happens !". Hmmmmmmmmmm



I am not a person who gets angry easily, but I am starting to over things like this...the Dal that got Casey had a handler who was extremely experienced and who knew that her dog could and probably would do this...yet let him!!
I sure feel for the chocolate lab's person.


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

And the chocolate lab!!


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