# Building a Dog House



## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

Why does she need a doghouse? I have 3 dogs and I've never needed to have a dog house. 
You can probably find design plans online


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

At our first house, long before we built our kennel, we had dog houses in kennel runs. My husband used to build GREAT dog houses. I think they exceeded code...lol
The interior dimensions were 36"l x 24" w x 28" high. This size was sutiable for all of our Golden. This was essentially a rectangle, with the door opening on the right end of the long side, so that the dog went in and made a turn, no weather got in. The floors were raised 4" from the ground, he insulated them (there was an interior wall and an exterior wall, with blue board in the middle, and a slightly slope roof, (the dogs could still lay on them) and shingled. The roof fit the house like a lid on a box, and could be lifted off for easy cleaning.


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## Heidi36oh (Feb 27, 2007)

Why a doghouse? Is the dog gonna live outside??


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

How about a nice big crate she can grow into?? When she's a pup you can just block off some of it so its not to big and then as she grows give her more room.


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## Eupher (May 9, 2008)

Taz Monkey said:


> Why does she need a doghouse? I have 3 dogs and I've never needed to have a dog house.
> You can probably find design plans online


Since we both work, we are choosing to place her outside when we are away.

I come home for lunch, so there would be about a 5 hour period between "walks", so we feel it's perfectly fine to put her in a kennel and a doghouse when we're not at home.

Otherwise, she would be in the house with us!

I'm well aware of the sheer number of doghouse plans that are on line and I've reviewed many. But in order to get the dimensions right, I need the dimensions of a typical adult female golden. I'll base the scale of the doghouse from those dimensions.


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## goldenluvX2 (Jun 19, 2007)

I don't know about the dog house your building... but my dog house is 1,600 square feet, has 2 baths... 3 bedrooms.. they both find it very comfy and are extremely happy.
ha ha ha ha... sorry I can't be better help.. all I know is your sweet baby girl is probably
not going to be very happy in her own little dog house... Goldens love to be with their people...


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Eupher said:


> Since we both work, we are choosing to place her outside when we are away.
> 
> I come home for lunch, so there would be about a 5 hour period between "walks", so we feel it's perfectly fine to put her in a kennel and a doghouse when we're not at home.
> 
> ...


In that case a dog house is a good idea to provide her some shelter and shade depending on the weather. Pointgold's measurements are probably the ones I would use.


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## Eupher (May 9, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> At our first house, long before we built our kennel, we had dog houses in kennel runs. My husband used to build GREAT dog houses. I think they exceeded code...lol
> The interior dimensions were 36"l x 24" w x 28" high. This size was sutiable for all of our Golden. This was essentially a rectangle, with the door opening on the right end of the long side, so that the dog went in and made a turn, no weather got in. The floors were raised 4" from the ground, he insulated them (there was an interior wall and an exterior wall, with blue board in the middle, and a slightly slope roof, (the dogs could still lay on them) and shingled. The roof fit the house like a lid on a box, and could be lifted off for easy cleaning.



This is great information! Thank you!

For those who seem to be puzzled about why we need a doghouse, our plan is to put her outside when we're not at home.

She will also have a crate, but we would not use the crate indoors unless we needed her to be crated for a short time or if the weather is truly horrific.

We also have 3 acres and a heckuva pond, so we're sure she'll find all the swallows that swoop around, and the Canada geese that come in and land on the pond's surface, and the grebes that also visit, and the rest of the critters that come around, very interesting.

A dog and the outdoors are synonymous, don't you think?


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

I see no problem with what you have planned especally as you mentiond a kennel also? so the dog house will be in the kennel?

But I have never left a dog outside (no fenced in yard) so I'm no expert. But I think when she is really young you will probably find it easier for house training and safer for her to be crated inside. And then as she gets older use the outdoor space.


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## goldenluvX2 (Jun 19, 2007)

that's sounds like a heck of a place to have a golden girl.. I'm sure her house
is going to be fit for a princess.


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## Carraig (Jan 4, 2008)

Eupher said:


> A dog and the outdoors are synonymous, don't you think?


 
Yes, but I think you'll find some people's reactions are due to the fact that dogs chained to a doghouse are not synonymous with caring pet owners. Chained dogs can get into more trouble than you might think. A doghouse and a fenced run are something else.


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## Eupher (May 9, 2008)

marshab1 said:


> I see no problem with what you have planned especally as you mentiond a kennel also? so the dog house will be in the kennel?
> 
> But I have never left a dog outside (no fenced in yard) so I'm no expert. But I think when she is really young you will probably find it easier for house training and safer for her to be crated inside. And then as she gets older use the outdoor space.


We believe that with a five-hour time frame during which Belle will be alone that it's too long of a period of time to be crated. She will undoubtedly need to relieve herself and yes, she will learn to do that in the corner of her kennel (6x12). The doghouse is there to give her shelter if she wants it.

When we are at home, we will be exercising her and ourselves, housetraining her, and all the usual activities one does with a puppy. She goes outside ONLY when we have to be at work or when we all go out for our twice-daily walks.


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## Eupher (May 9, 2008)

Carraig said:


> Yes, but I think you'll find some people's reactions are due to the fact that dogs chained to a doghouse are not synonymous with caring pet owners. Chained dogs can get into more trouble than you might think. A doghouse and a fenced run are something else.


Interesting that people should jump to that conclusion. I said nowhere in any of my posts that I would be chaining the dog up to the doghouse.

And the fencing business is interesting as well. Not only do we have the kennel and the doghouse that I'm planning to build, but I just finished installing almost 1,000 feet of fencing around the pond. We have a lot of opportunity for play, but we want to do it safely.


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## Heidi36oh (Feb 27, 2007)

Eupher said:


> We believe that with a five-hour time frame during which Belle will be alone that it's too long of a period of time to be crated. She will undoubtedly need to relieve herself and yes, she will learn to do that in the corner of her kennel (6x12). The doghouse is there to give her shelter if she wants it.
> 
> When we are at home, we will be exercising her and ourselves, housetraining her, and all the usual activities one does with a puppy. She goes outside ONLY when we have to be at work or when we all go out for our twice-daily walks.


Sorry never had a Golden in a Kennel and don't agree with it, I crate mine and they allays done good. Why can't she stay in a kennel in the house????????


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## goldenluvX2 (Jun 19, 2007)

Another idea... it's just an idea. When you get your baby girl home. You could hire someone to come in a couple times a day to let her out to do her baby business and get
a little exercise. A pet sitter or a dog walker hire out to do these very things. Think
most are very reasonable.


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## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

Eupher said:


> Interesting that people should jump to that conclusion. I said nowhere in any of my posts that I would be chaining the dog up to the doghouse.
> 
> And the fencing business is interesting as well. Not only do we have the kennel and the doghouse that I'm planning to build, but I just finished installing almost 1,000 feet of fencing around the pond. We have a lot of opportunity for play, but we want to do it safely.


I never thought you said you were going to chain her to the doghouse, but I have almost as much problem with leaving dogs outside unattended as I do with chaining. I would never leave any of my dogs outside while I left the house. They are very rarely outside without me even if I am home. I used a crate. You would find that it makes housetraining much easier. I hope you aren't getting a brand new 8 week old puppy and leaving her outside right from the start. I think your housetraining is going to be a disaster. A crate is a much better tool to use, and your dog will be much happier, I guarantee it. Especially if you will be coming home during the day to let her out.


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## goldenluvX2 (Jun 19, 2007)

I didn't see anything about chaining in any of your posts either???


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## Eupher (May 9, 2008)

goldenluvX2 said:


> Another idea... it's just an idea. When you get your baby girl home. You could hire someone to come in a couple times a day to let her out to do her baby business and get
> a little exercise. A pet sitter or a dog walker hire out to do these very things. Think
> most are very reasonable.


Tried that, but no dice. We live in a very rural area and we were unable to find such a person.


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## Eupher (May 9, 2008)

Taz Monkey said:


> I never thought you said you were going to chain her to the doghouse, but I have almost as much problem with leaving dogs outside unattended as I do with chaining. I would never leave any of my dogs outside while I left the house. They are very rarely outside without me even if I am home. I used a crate. You would find that it makes housetraining much easier. I hope you aren't getting a brand new 8 week old puppy and leaving her outside right from the start. I think your housetraining is going to be a disaster. A crate is a much better tool to use, and your dog will be much happier, I guarantee it. Especially if you will be coming home during the day to let her out.


Are you suggesting that a 9-week old puppy to be in a crate for five hours is reasonable? Not based on what I've read, but I'd be happy to hear what your experience has been like.

At which point does the puppy have a problem with "holding" it? Six hours? Seven?

I hope you didn't miss the part when I said we'd be using a crate. Indoors. When we're home.

Regrettably, we both work so we simply can't be home all the time. The best we can do is break up the day with me coming home at lunch.

From where I'm sitting, this is an acceptable solution. The dog is crated when necessary, but not for lengthy periods of time approaching 5 hours.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Good luck on your doghouse. PointGold's dimensions certainly looked engineered better then what you could buy.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I think it sounds like a wonderful place for a dog, and a caring, concerned family. I would never leave a dog outside, unattended, even in a fenced yard. But, as I understand this member's posts, they have a kennel in which she would be safely contained, and they are providing her with a safe, protective shelter. I believe that their reasoning is sound, and see no reason to take issue with it. It is better than being crated in a situation that would not allow for her to be let out frequently enough while they are working.
I am one who has been chastised for having a kennel, though, so I am sure that my opinion will be considered biased.


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## Heidi36oh (Feb 27, 2007)

Eupher said:


> Interesting that people should jump to that conclusion. I said nowhere in any of my posts that I would be chaining the dog up to the doghouse.
> 
> And the fencing business is interesting as well. Not only do we have the kennel and the doghouse that I'm planning to build, but I just finished installing almost 1,000 feet of fencing around the pond. We have a lot of opportunity for play, but we want to do it safely.


If you want you're pup safe you keep her in a crate and not outside where anyone can get to her.
I'm sorry I just don't go for outside dogs, you have a precious puppy that will sit in a an outside cage for 5 hours a day, hope for you're sake the weather don't get bad, too hot. 5 hours is enough to kill a pup in hot weather.


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## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

I raised 2 dogs and have fostered and housetrained several more from puppyhood with no problems. A 9 week old puppy is just fine in a crate for a few hours. If you're going to be gone longer than that, gate in a kitchen, bathroom, laundry room , etc. Outside is not safe, period. Weather can change in a minute, and your 9 week old puppy could be outside in a torrential downpour with thunder and lightening. Have you ever dealt with an adult dog terrified of thunderstorms? Its not fun, and you'd be well on your way to having one if you do it the way you plan to.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I have a foster puppy right now who is 10 weeks old, I work 2pm to 10 pm 3 days a week and 10pm to 6am 2 nights a week and she is crated. she has never once gone to the bathroom in her crate. I have olders one as well who cant be trusted and there crated... I myself would never leave them outdoors while Im gone. Good luck potty training if your leaving her outside while your gone. I have had fosters who were and once they came to my house they pretty thought they could potty anytime anywhere and it took twice as long to train them. what happens if she gets out and your gone????? they do love to dig, or if someone steals her? I dont believe its the best set up for her being so young


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Providing her with a safe enclosure, fresh water, and a protective shelter she will be fine. She will have more opportunity to exercise and to eliminate if needed, and will also be benefitting from the use of a crate when indoors as appropriate time-wise, and always with her owners when they are home - whether they are indoors or out on a property that is every Golden's dream... 
I think that she will be just fine and grow up to be happy and well adjusted.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Pointgold said:


> I think it sounds like a wonderful place for a dog, and a caring, concerned family. I would never leave a dog outside, unattended, even in a fenced yard. But, as I understand this member's posts, they have a kennel in which she would be safely contained, and they are providing her with a safe, protective shelter. I believe that their reasoning is sound, and see no reason to take issue with it. It is better than being crated in a situation that would not allow for her to be let out frequently enough while they are working.
> I am one who has been chastised for having a kennel, though, so I am sure that my opinion will be considered biased.


I agree. But then I don't like crates. And I failed at crate training. And so even though I have an XL crate and only had to use it for a couple of hours a week. I got Tinkerbell out of it as quickly as possible. Next time around unless my circumstances drastically change I won't even get the crate out of the garage.


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## Eupher (May 9, 2008)

I thank all of you for your comments! I believe this thread has run its course - well, for me at least.

It's pretty clear there are some differing opinions as to how best to care for a dog. That's okay!

For the record, we're also owned by two parrots. There are just as many differing opinions about how to care for parrots as there are people and parrots combined!

Having pets is a very emotional, personal thing. I certainly was torn up, far more than I would've thought, when we lost Daffy, our Congo African grey, to an accident that nobody witnessed. So I can relate to the emotional aspects of pet ownership.

As has been pointed out by Pointgold (no pun intended), we are new to goldens, but we are not in the business of abusing or harming the puppy we are getting in just two weeks. Our intent is to learn as much as we can about the breed, exhibit leadership, provide safety, and ensure that she gets plenty of exercise.

Oh, we want to make sure she gets a lot of love, too.

So, with that, I'm outta here!


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## goldenluvX2 (Jun 19, 2007)

I think you have all of your bases covered ... In your very first posts you didn't mention why you needed to build a dog house... thats why many of us were confused..
As long as she is safe ... like in a kennel when your at work.. that should work out fine.
I wish there was something that could be done .. so she won't be confused as far as her potty training goes... cause she certainly well have to do her business in the kennel .. and when you get her in her crate when she's in the house.. she's gonna think it's o.k. to pee in her crate. Maybe not... I'm no expert .. but it might be something to work out. It's so exciting to have a sweet baby girl coming home and you sound like your a very caring and kind person... just trying to do the very best thing for this sweet puppy. And it sounds like you've done so much already. It's must be a beautiful place.
Sounds like a perfect place to raise a wonderful Golden Girl.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

This is a tough call and I am not judging the original poster - you sound like a nice guy.  I personally don't believe in leaving a dog alone (esp a puppy) in an outdoor enclosure...just would worry me terribly if it were my dog. We have taken waaaaay too many dogs into rescue who were houdinis - they regularly escaped their pens which is why they were turned into the shelter. Due to that we prefer adopters who don't keep the dogs outside alone. Again - not judging here...just sharing my experience.

For those who breed - do you/would you/have you sell/sold puppies to owners who leave them outside in pens when not at home? I ask out of curiosity - again, no judgement here!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

marshab1 said:


> I agree. But then I don't like crates. And I failed at crate training. And so even though I have an XL crate and only had to use it for a couple of hours a week. I got Tinkerbell out of it as quickly as possible. Next time around unless my circumstances drastically change I won't even get the crate out of the garage.


I love crates. Interestingly, 25 years ago when I first started teaching classes, people were MORTIFIED that I "put my dogs in cages". Now it is considered the norm, and recognized as a useful tool for housebreaking and safely containing a dog, and here people are insisting that this is the only thing that the OP should do. 
I feel fortunate in that I have the ability to do both - crating in the house for housebreaking puppies, and kenneling out doors in the kennel allowing them the opportunity to run and play. *My outside runs are covered, so there is always protection from the elements. By doing both, which is essentially what the OP is planning, I have very flexible, well socialized, confident dogs, who are reliably housebroken when it the house with us, as well as comfortable and happy when in the kennel, and are not over-dependant on us. I feel it is the best of both worlds.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> For those who breed - do you/would you/have you sell/sold puppies to owners who leave them outside in pens when not at home? I ask out of curiosity - again, no judgement here!


I wouldn't if it were exclusively kept outdoors in a pen, but depending on the situation and the set-up , and if everything else showed them to be an excellent home, would consider it if being used when the owners were at work, etc. It would have to be secure, and safe, and I believe that this is the case with the OP's situation.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Pointgold said:


> I think it sounds like a wonderful place for a dog, and a caring, concerned family. I would never leave a dog outside, unattended, even in a fenced yard. But, as I understand this member's posts, they have a kennel in which she would be safely contained, and they are providing her with a safe, protective shelter. I believe that their reasoning is sound, and see no reason to take issue with it. It is better than being crated in a situation that would not allow for her to be let out frequently enough while they are working.
> I am one who has been chastised for having a kennel, though, so I am sure that my opinion will be considered biased.


What is the difference between keeping a dog outside in a fenced yard and a fenced pen?


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Pointgold said:


> I love crates. Interestingly, 25 years ago when I first started teaching classes, people were MORTIFIED that I "put my dogs in cages". Now it is considered the norm, and recognized as a useful tool for housebreaking and safely containing a dog, and here people are insisting that this is the only thing that the OP should do.
> I feel fortunate in that I have the ability to do both - crating in the house for housebreaking puppies, and kenneling out doors in the kennel allowing them the opportunity to run and play. *My outside runs are covered, so there is always protection from the elements. By doing both, which is essentially what the OP is planning, I have very flexible, well socialized, confident dogs, who are reliably housebroken when it the house with us, as well as comfortable and happy when in the kennel, and are not over-dependant on us. I feel it is the best of both worlds.


You do have the best of both worlds. We just found it much easier for all of us to do it "old school" especally when Tink was 8 weeks old and I had gone 2 weeks with very little sleep because she cried all night and I put her in my room she slept for 8 hours no accidents. She's never had an accident at night even when she was 3 months old and had diahrea all night and she woke me up 6 times to go out. And she's been housebroke since 10 weeks. the only accidents since that time were on her way to the door with a bad UTI. 

But I also had the *time* to do it that way. if that changes, I'll be figuring out the crate and indoor run thing. LOL


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> What is the difference between keeping a dog outside in a fenced yard and a fenced pen?


When I think of a "fenced pen", I think of a kennel on a concrete pad, or wood deck, which will not allow a dog to dig out. A kennel like this can be topped, either with more fence, or, a roof type cover. This can be shaded, and can also be locked. I feel that this kind of enclosure is much safer than an open, fenced yard, which can be dug out of, or, a dog can be easily stolen from.
I have seen very nice kennel runs placed close to a house, some even attached with access to the inside of a garage with an enclosed space in the garage. There are lots of ways to safely and effectively utilize a kennel run, which are much safer than freely running in a fenced yard.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> What is the difference between keeping a dog outside in a fenced yard and a fenced pen?


its safer in a pen because a fence yard is much more accessible for neighborhood kids. A puppy barking and wagging its tail through the gate is tempting people to stop by. I will tell you a kid will climb the fence if they can do it easily to hold that puppy. A kid wouldn't climb the fence, and then climb the high walls of a kennel to mess with a dog that they can barely see..

A dog in a pen within the yard is largely a dog unseen. 

And a pen is most likely more secure. A yard has all sorts of things a puppy could chew on and swallow that may harm it...where you have control of that in the pen. 

Plus, a fenced in yard invariably has that small hole you didn't know about that a small puppy could slip through.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> What is the difference between keeping a dog outside in a fenced yard and a fenced pen?


Smaller so easier to control what is in it. Many are on concrate slabs which prevents digging, covered to provide shade and shelter, and some have tighter fencing.

My uncle always kept his hunting dogs in outside kennels when he was at work. they were cemented into concrate slabs, covered, and even had screen covering the fencing to keep bugs out. A large insulated dog house, a large water bowl with the hose slowly running into it, so even if it got knocked over there was still water.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Lucky's mom said:


> its safer in a pen because a fence yard is much more accessible for neighborhood kids. A puppy barking and wagging its tail through the gate is tempting people to stop by. I will tell you a kid will climb the fence if they can do it easily to hold that puppy. A kid wouldn't climb the fence, and then climb the high walls of a kennel to mess with a dog that they can barely see..
> 
> A dog in a pen within the yard is largely a dog unseen.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I always pretty much considered them the same. Of course I am thinking of my own yard - no kids, no holes and can't see them really see them. I have a dog who would definitely dig out of a pen - he just doesn't "dig" (pun intended!) being contained. Before we gave him free roam of the house he got out of every crate we tried! He also did it at doggie daycare! He is my dog who can open doors - I love his stubborn determination so much, but it can be a REAL challenge!


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Pointgold said:


> When I think of a "fenced pen", I think of a kennel on a concrete pad, or wood deck, which will not allow a dog to dig out. A kennel like this can be topped, either with more fence, or, a roof type cover. This can be shaded, and can also be locked. I feel that this kind of enclosure is much safer than an open, fenced yard, which can be dug out of, or, a dog can be easily stolen from.
> I have seen very nice kennel runs placed close to a house, some even attached with access to the inside of a garage with an enclosed space in the garage. There are lots of ways to safely and effectively utilize a kennel run, which are much safer than freely running in a fenced yard.


 
Hmmm...interesting! Thanks!


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## wabmorgan (May 6, 2008)

I built a dog house for my late Jean-luc almost 17 years ago. Jean-luc simply would not use my begal's doghouse. It was like he knew it was some other dog house. 

Jean-luc,jr (Junior)(my new pup) has been using it on occasion. It is still in good shape.... even after all these years. 

I probably went a little over-kill on size... it was 4ft W x 4ft L X 5ft H

I also have a fenced backyard.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> Thanks! I always pretty much considered them the same. Of course I am thinking of my own yard - no kids, no holes and can't see them really see them. I have a dog who would definitely dig out of a pen - he just doesn't "dig" (pun intended!) being contained. Before we gave him free roam of the house he got out of every crate we tried! He also did it at doggie daycare! He is my dog who can open doors - I love his stubborn determination so much, but it can be a REAL challenge!


I watched a dog that did this. I put him in Tinkerbell's crate closed both doors, slide all 4 latches and came home 2 hours later, he met me at the door. I looked at the crate, both doors still closed, and 3 latches still latched. This dog was Tinkerbell's size so around 50 pounds at the time.

I still don't know how he did it. But I'm sure he didn't get out and relatch the door...:uhoh:


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

wabmorgan said:


> I built a dog house for my late Jean-luc almost 17 years ago. Jean-luc simply would not use my begal's doghouse. It was like he knew it was some other dog house.
> 
> Jean-luc,jr (Junior)(my new pup) has been using it on occasion. It is still in good shape.... even after all these years.
> 
> I probably went a little over-kill on size... it was 4ft W x 5ft L X 4ft H


In other words you made him a dog room!:doh:


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> Thanks! I always pretty much considered them the same. Of course I am thinking of my own yard - no kids, no holes and can't see them really see them. I have a dog who would definitely dig out of a pen - he just doesn't "dig" (pun intended!) being contained. Before we gave him free roam of the house he got out of every crate we tried! He also did it at doggie daycare! He is my dog who can open doors - I love his stubborn determination so much, but it can be a REAL challenge!


Well I'm thinking "puppies" . Older dogs have much more judgement and usually people know how trustworthy they are.

It does depend on where you live and what type of fencing you have. I'm just working off my own perpective...and we have old fencing and zillions of kids. I'm comfortable leaving Lucky for short periods in the backyard while we are out , but I wouldn't a little puppy.


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## wabmorgan (May 6, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> I think it sounds like a wonderful place for a dog, and a caring, concerned family. *I would never leave a dog outside, unattended, even in a fenced yard.* But, as I understand this member's posts, they have a kennel in which she would be safely contained, and they are providing her with a safe, protective shelter. I believe that their reasoning is sound, and see no reason to take issue with it. It is better than being crated in a situation that would not allow for her to be let out frequently enough while they are working.
> I am one who has been chastised for having a kennel, though, so I am sure that my opinion will be considered biased.


I didn't use to worry about this... but I do now. I started to worry about it a few years ago with Jean-luc. Now with Junior.... he is not outside unless he is supervised. (People are just too mean now days.) 

Dispite the fenced yard.... I am going to be building a kennel in frount of my dog door so he can go in and out into the kennel. (That is... I will be building it as soon as I recover from my nondisplaced tibial plateau fracture.  ) (It could be a while.)


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

My first golden spent alot of time outdoors and had a doghouse. Because my exhusband wanted it that way and I didn't know anything about the breed. When we got divorced, she came in the house!

My next pups were cratetrained.I worked but took vacation when we got the puppy and they were housetrained in two weeks. The crate was mainly to prevent my house from being chewed up when I was out during teething.

Laura, your dogs at least have each other when outside. I feel bad for a poor puppy outside alone. I will never do that to a golden again. They are loving family dogs and want to be inside with us.

This guy never said if the dog will be indoors once housebroken, the reason he used for being outside all day. Hopefully once he learns more about the breed, as he said he wanted to do, he will change his mind. But he didn't seem to interested in our opinions, just the measurements. Then he was "outta here".


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Debles said:


> This guy never said if the dog will be indoors once housebroken, the reason he used for being outside all day. Hopefully once he learns more about the breed, as he said he wanted to do, he will change his mind. But he didn't seem to interested in our opinions, just the measurements. Then he was "outta here".


I really didn't get that from him at all, Debles. He was forthcoming in his plans, and I think he probably wasn't all that interested in getting beat up for it anymore! He did indicate that his dog would be with them at all times when they were home. I honestly hope that he wasn't turned away from coming back to the forum to learn and share because he was made to feel like an uncaring owner.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Debles said:


> Laura, your dogs at least have each other when outside. I feel bad for a poor puppy outside alone. I will never do that to a golden again. They are loving family dogs and want to be inside with us.
> 
> Yes, they do have the company of each other, but this seems a moot point - the op's puppy would be "alone" whether in or out during the times that the owners are not home, and at least outdoors there is an ever changing environment, which is far more stimulating than indoors. He also was clear that she would NOT be outside in bad weather, and that he would be coming home at lunchtime. I just don't understand the aversion to his plan.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

I think it is the percieved (real or imagined) vulnerability of a 8-9 week old puppy that even made me winch. Yes intellectually I realize the pup will sleep most of the time and will have his physical needs met....yet still....somehow it makes me uneasy...


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## Eupher (May 9, 2008)

Debles said:


> ...
> Laura, your dogs at least have each other when outside. I feel bad for a poor puppy outside alone. I will never do that to a golden again. They are loving family dogs and want to be inside with us.
> 
> This guy never said if the dog will be indoors once housebroken, the reason he used for being outside all day. Hopefully once he learns more about the breed, as he said he wanted to do, he will change his mind. But he didn't seem to interested in our opinions, just the measurements. Then he was "outta here".


"This guy", Debles, has a screen name. It's Eupher! And I thank you once again for your comments. It gives me another opportunity to state my case.

(I do have to duck back in here because there have been some great comments (thanks about the concrete idea under the kennel!), and some very real concerns. Believe me when I tell all of you that I respect your opinions, even though I might disagree with them. Pointgold, thank you for your public support - I think you were able to see what others have not been able to see.

Let me state that just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I don't care or that I show you disrespect. I'm simply being an adult in discussing matters of mutual importance. I am free to disagree with you and still exhibit respect. You are free to disagree with me as well, and I assure you, I'm not offended!

But Debles, let me point out that, first of all, you are emotionally involved in your pets, indeed probably all animals. That is evidenced by your statement above the how you "feel bad" when a golden is left alone.

I could run that one to the nth degree, but let's just say that Mags and I have weighed very carefully the decision to get a dog, and not just that, but a golden. You wouldn't know that, of course, because I'm new to this forum. But you, and others, are quick to condemn my actions because you think I'm some sort of ignorant, jackbooted thug that is intent to simply milk the forum for information, then I'm "outta here!"

If that were the case, I wouldn't have registered on the forum to begin with and I wouldn't have reappeared on this thread. While I agree with you that I'm relatively ignorant about goldens, I am NOT ignorant about my responsibilities as a pet owner. You wouldn't know this either, so let me gently inform you that I've worked rescue as well - different animal (parrots), but it's all the same thing. Animals that are intelligent, caring creatures are treated like dirt. It's an egregious act to commit those kinds of sins on defenseless animals, so it's an entirely human reaction to get one's dander up when you think you're seeing just another jackbooted thug, right?

Well, I'm wearing sneakers! 


With all the comments and the concerns and the statements, at the end of the day, here's what's going to happen:
Eupher (that's me!) is going to build a doghouse. It'll be a good doghouse, but it won't be built for Alaskan conditions. Why? Because when the weather is truly horrific (I said that earlier, remember?), the dog doesn't go outside! (Does that sound Nazi-like to you?)
I'm going to put the doghouse in a 6x12x6 foot chain-link kennel. On concrete.
After we pick up the pup in two weeks and we get home, it's vacation time! (oops, I didn't mention that, did I? Sorry!) She will be 9 weeks old at that point. We're going to spend more than a week in getting to learn her and she us, and we're going to do our best to get a jump start on housebreaking. There won't be a need for the doghouse/kennel at that point because we're home! That means Eupher gets up at 2 a.m. to walk the dog!
At the risk of really inflaming some tender sensitivities, I happen to think that Cesar Millan's approach to calm, assertive pack leadership is the way to go. Belle (the pup) will know right from the start that there is leadership. She will not have to fill that void.
Belle's needs will be taken care of, she will be safe (we live in a rural area, so I'm far less worried about intruders and perps than I did when I lived in Berlin, Germany some years ago), and we are going to make sure that she gets the balance she needs.
Does all of this sound like a guy who deliberately and willfully abuses animals? Refuses to hear sound, clear logic free of unnecessary emotion?

I sure hope not!

Have a great day!


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## SamIAm's Mom (Dec 24, 2007)

Eupher-
Thanks for sticking around and thanks for your maturity. I'm fairly new around here too (just got our pup in Nov 2007), and have struggled from time to time at how people on here react...not necessarily to me, but often to others. At times it is utterly ridiculous and disgusting. However, I'm obviously still here, the reason being that I've come to realize that even though many may not know how to tactfully disagree with a person, they do ultimately love their goldens and I enjoy hearing about their dogs. 

So, I apologize for those who have no tact, but would like to encourage you to hang around. There are obviously some of us who are not that way and would like to welcome you here. 

Best of luck with your golden. Ours is one of the best things that ever happened to us.


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## HovawartMom (Aug 10, 2006)

Just a minute,there!.
I've lived,most of my life,in France and,until I came to Fl,my dogs were outside dogs!.The dogs were outside when we left and inside when we came back!.They had 2 doghouses and a bicycle room and did wonderfully well!.
They had the run of the property,were fit and happy!.
I don't see anything wrong with what he wants to do!.
As far as the dog house, I would put it in the shade or under a big tree that stays shaddy,all day long.Make sure that she has water or even a small pool to go in when she's hot and she will be fine!.would love to see the pictures of the dog house,when it's built!.
The only thing,i would worry about is someone stealing her or her,barking all day!.
By the way,hello and welcome!.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

LibertyME said:


> I think it is the percieved (real or imagined) vulnerability of a 8-9 week old puppy that even made me winch. Yes intellectually I realize the pup will sleep most of the time and will have his physical needs met....yet still....somehow it makes me uneasy...


I agree with you.... That being my feelings are because I have a dog who has gotten out a state of the art kennel, he can get out of metal crates and even managed to chew through a chain link fence. Um why BECAUSE HE WAS BORED.


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

Welcome to the GRF Eupher. I'm sorry that you stepped into one of the true hot button issues in this forum. I have a kennel also, because I have so many dogs. I went with the runs from the Mason Kennel Company. They are extremely safe and secure. Even down to the dog proof gate latches. The mesh is very small so that the dogs cannot stick any body parts through it, and it is wired continuously to the frame. My dogs spend a very limited amount of time in the runs. My runs are attached to a 20x20 outbuilding which is insulated, air conditioned and heated. I used the same fencing from Mason Kennel Co inside with stainless privacy panels.

Take a look at Mason. They will custom make each panel to the required size if you need that. I've never had an escape or injury in the five years I've had it.


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## olik (Apr 13, 2008)

both of my dogs grow up in crates and di't have any problems.I don't really like the idea living dog outside even with shelter for 5 hours.Sorry.


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## Cam's Mom (Apr 13, 2007)

Eupher, I have some major differences of opinion with you, and that would mean several other people on the forum too. I think leaving a small pup socially isolated for several hours a day is cruel...but that is only my opinion. Dogs are pack animals, and pups are emotionally geared to being around "sitter" dogs until they're quite old. (or people will sufice) It is stressful for them to be alone. Small amounts of stress can be beneficial...

*Week 11 in the puppies life is critical...they go through a fear period*. Anything that scares them during this week can be virtually impossible to remedy...thunderstorm, coyote stalking, meeting a vicious dog or cat face on, snake in the run, even seperation anxiety, or overcorrecting. Goldens _can be_ very sensitive to correction. If you get the pup at nine weeks, and stay home for a week, your pup is just about to hit that fear period as you leave her alone. Is there any way you could take her with you till she was a little older, or even though rural, doggy day care? We're really rural, but there are two day care facilities. Or, ask at your vets if there's any Golden owner near you who would help out? Just suggestions.

I personally dislike Caesar Milan's methods, and crates. They both wreak of control(rather than leadership)...black and white instead of grey. House in a run is grey...I prefer it for the same reasons Laura pointed out. I see crates as a human sloution to a human dilema rather than for the good of the dog. (something of mine might be spoilt)

However, lots of people do have pups, and kids for that matter, and leave them all day. Staying home for a week is comendable, but if that is to be followed by leaving the pup alone in a kennel, it would be a good idea if you build up to that during your week at home. You may have already considered this, but didn't mention it. I know it's impossible to mention everything.

Margaret


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Eupher, don't be surprised if that precious pup makes you change your mind about all of the above...<big grin>


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

We had a family here who thought it was much safer and better to leave their golden puppy in a kennel in their yard. A rabid fox came up, and the puppy being a curious soul went up to the side of the kennel and the fox bit him on his nose. Not only was it terrifying for the puppy, it was the reason that the puppy had to be euthanized. The puppy was under 4 months which is the required age for the rabies vaccine.

The saddest part after all of this? The family acquired another puppy and proceeded to put it into the same kennel.

This was in the suburbs, too.

I am totally and completely against leaving a dog outside, in a kennel or otherwise, when there is not someone outside with them.

To add to the other things that will cause some problems is that during the time that she should be working on housetraining, she is going to be allowed to urinate and defecate in her living area.


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## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

Eupher, I disagree with you on having dogs unsupervised outside, it is insanely dangerous. I read a story on another pet forum just this week about a dog who was left outside for a few hours and when the owners returned, the pup had been stung by so many bees that his internal organs had shut down and he had to be put down.
I certainly don't think you sound like someone who wants to abuse your pup! And I doubt that's what anyone here meant, I think we just want the best for your pup.
I know a lot of people don't agree with crating but it is a lifesaver for us when we have puppies, we certainly stop using the crate when they are fully housetrained and can be trusted in the house alone.
Cesat Milan has a very convincing TV show, and that's about all I will say about him. 
I am sure you are going to have a wonderful puppy and loads of fun! Please consider the dangers of the outside world for a dog =( and please know I am not flaming you just letting you know why I am against the idea of dogs outside unsupervised! =)


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## Eupher (May 9, 2008)

SamIAm's Mom said:


> Eupher-
> Thanks for sticking around and thanks for your maturity. I'm fairly new around here too (just got our pup in Nov 2007), and have struggled from time to time at how people on here react...not necessarily to me, but often to others. At times it is utterly ridiculous and disgusting. However, I'm obviously still here, the reason being that I've come to realize that even though many may not know how to tactfully disagree with a person, they do ultimately love their goldens and I enjoy hearing about their dogs.
> 
> So, I apologize for those who have no tact, but would like to encourage you to hang around. There are obviously some of us who are not that way and would like to welcome you here.
> ...


It's going to take a lot more than a few over-emotional folks (good-intentioned that they might be) to chase me off, SamIam's Mom. First of all, I relish a good argument - one that's based on logic and clear, rational thinking.

Secondly, I truly do want to learn from all of you - I've already picked up some good ideas.

Third, I hope to check in from time to time, if not daily, and offer my own ideas and results.

I learned a long time ago, and especially having participated in a parrot club with all the requisite emotion that goes on in the parrot world (some of the you wouldn't BELIEVE), humans are sometimes animals' worst nightmare.

As well-intentioned as we are, we are fallible. As educated and intuitive as we are, we make mistakes. We allow observations of facts to cloud our judgment to the point that we wind up hurting the very animals we profess to love. How? By failing to acknowledge the _animal _aspect of our pet.

I mentioned before that we have two parrots. I should probably further introduce myself by saying that I've been around parrots of one species or another for more than 20 years. I am comfortable around them, and they me. We have an affinity, a connection, that baffles Mags.

What I do with my parrots is very basic. I provide them leadership.

This is where I believe Cesar Millan hits the nail on the head. Many of you have expressed contempt or even outrage at his techniques, but taking his concepts on these points:


energy (our state of mind)
discipline (not punishment, but the application of training techniques)
affection (acknowledging and recognizing great things from your animal and showing such approval)
I can relate to my parrots not as I would another human, but as _parrots._

Parrots are flock animals, just as dogs are pack animals. They are hard-wired for the good of the group. Parrots sometimes become vicious, biting, stalking animals when they are out of balance. Providing leadership to them restores balance.

They intuitively know that that big, hulking creature of a human is smarter than they are, more capable than they are, and knows more than they do. Therefore, parrots expect leadership. When they don't get it, they go goofy sometimes.

There is no question that dogs - as dogs - can also go goofy. Golden retriever, bull mastiff, or rottweiler, dogs are inherently _dogs_. Animal first, breed second. Pack first, self second.


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

Welcome to the forum Eupher...something tells me you are going to do just fine here. I'm looking forward to pictures of your puppy.

Jan, Seamus, Gracie & Phoebe

''Yes, it is true. I, Michael Scott am signing up with an online dating service. Thousands of people have done it, and I'm going to do it. I need a user name. And I have a great one. Little Kid Lover. That way people will know exactly where my priorities are at. ''


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Parrots and dogs are two different animals/species. Though you may say that you are open to suggestions, I am not getting that vibe from any of your posts. I am getting that you have made up your mind and are looking for posters to support the decision you have made. And no, I don't equate outside dogs to dogs chained to doghouses. And I still feel it's a bad idea, especially for a puppy that is so very young and vulnerable.

I am done with this thread because I honestly don't think that anything I say will make a difference and I will likely just get more aggrevated. I know myself well.


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## riddle03 (Jun 9, 2005)

I have no doubt that you truly want the best for your new pup, but I have one question. Would you leave a defenseless newborn outside ? It's pretty much the same thing. I don't dislike kennels but for such a young pup ? Dogs are by nature cave dwellers she will in time love her crate. You do sound like you have made up your mind. I hope all goes well. Differences of opinion is not a bad thing. I look forward to seeing pictures of your new puppy.


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