# 5-Weeks Old, not 8 Weeks



## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

It is illegal to sell a puppy under 8 weeks old in the state of California. 

Puppy Development

Puppy Toddlers (3 - 6 Weeks) During the Toddler period, puppies emerge on their own from the litter. They venture into the surrounding environment. This emergence from the litter is a gradual and continual learning experience. During this stage of development puppies learn basic behavioral patterns specific to dogs. While playing, they practice different body postures, learning what the postures mean and how they affect their mother and litter mates. They learn what it is like to bite and be bitten, what barking and other vocalizations mean and how to make and use them to establish social relationships with other dogs. Such learning and activity tempers their own biting and vocalizing. From the age of five weeks, the mother teaches her puppies basic manners. They learn to be submissive to her leadership and what behaviors are acceptable. If necessary, she growls, snarls, or snaps at them as a form of discipline. When weaning the litter, for instance, the mother will discipline her puppies so that they will leave her alone. Because the mother disciplines them in a way that they clearly understand, after a few repetitions, the puppies will respond to a mere glare from her. If a pup has not learned to accept leadership (and discipline) in its early interactions with dogs, its training will be more difficult. Puppies that are removed from the nest too early tend to be nervous, more prone to barking and biting, and less responsive to discipline. Often they are aggressive with other dogs. Generally speaking, a puppy taken away from it's mother and litter mates before seven weeks of age, may not realize its full potential as a dog and companion. To maximize the mental and psychological development of puppies, they must remain in the nest with their mother and litter mates until seven weeks of age.


----------



## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

ripley said:


> Hi, I'm new here.
> 
> We just got our new Sunny on Thursday, and we were told by the owner she was 8 weeks old. Our vet said she was in good shape, but she wan't 8 weeks, but younger. I called the owner back and he revealed that she was actually 5 weeks old.
> 
> ...


Oh wow, that is totally illegal...

Your puppy is losing out on vital doggy socialization between her litter mates and mom. It will require a lot of extra work on your part for the puppy to gain proper dog socialization and to learn proper bite inhibition. 

So sorry that you were deceived like that.


----------



## bioteach (Nov 13, 2010)

We accepted Buckskin at 6 weeks (he was a beautiful pup and we were ignorant). It was a huge mistake. He was aloof with other dogs and stubborn with us. Two trainers (including one who worked with military dogs) gave us our money back and told us that he was really not responsive to conventional training methods. 

For the first two years of his life Buckskin was exceptionally destructive. Eventually we discovered his talent for tracking and used tracking opportunities to train him in the basics - but it was a huge challenge.

We brought him to dog parks, etc. but despite his large size he did not want to interact with dogs of any size or breed. He would take up a position and growl at any dog that solicited play. 

I do admit that eventually he was a nice companion to us at home; but we always felt cheated. I would return this pup immediately for socialization, have him evaluated in 3-4 weeks and then decide whether or not to keep him. Time with his dam and littermates will benefit him and you alike. This breeder wanted a quick buck and is not concerned with the welfare of this litter.


----------



## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Wow, that is terrible on the seller's part, and I would be livid. Ian Dunbar has some good books dealing with these issues, especially teaching bite inhibition that littermates usually help the pup understand. Mainly, try to get the pup to see that using teeth too hard means fun ends. You shouldnt try to stop all biting at this age, as you want the puppy to get how to gentle the use of his mouth. Try feeding peanut butter on a metal spoon or horse's snaffle bit so the pup has to gentle that mouth to avoid clanging. Yip like a pup and turn away and cease playing if a bite is too hard. Also, if you can find a super gentle, well-vaccinated older dog for playdates, that will be an immense help. There is so much good you can do here, but this window of time is crucial ( until about 12 weeks). Introduce pup to 100 friendly people, 20 dogs, walk on 12 surfaces see funny hats, kids, wheelchairs- anything he might encounter in his life, starting slow but increasing at 8-12 weeks.


----------



## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

My son's pup is a rescue that was dumped on a shelter's door at about 4-5 weeks of age. He came to my son at about 12 weeks of age. He had a bit of interaction with the other dogs at the Rescue who pulled him, but because of his age, not alot. He is a very sweet dog that loves other dogs and is my Ike's best friend. Hunter does not have biting issues, is very intelligent, and learned his commands easily. He does have a strong prey drive (we think from the beagle in his mix) so he must be kept on leash when outdoors or he will take off after a bird or squirrel. I don't think we'll ever trust him to 'stay'. Other wise, he's a great loveable, joyful pupster.


----------



## saus (May 7, 2011)

solinvictus said:


> It is illegal to sell a puppy under 8 weeks old in the state of California.
> ]


It is illegal in NH, too. I finally found all the right ingredients for my puppy adventure, and asked to pick up my pup when he was 7 1/2 weeks of age because we were driving out that way last weekend. I explained our situation, but the breeder didn't budge.

I'd read up on rescue sites how to raise a solo puppy that is too young to be away from it's mother. If the breeder not only sold you that puppy at only five weeks, but intentionally deceived you, I don't see how the breeder is going to improve that pup's life, especially if the rest of the litter is sold.


----------



## ripley (Jun 17, 2011)

My vet was less concerned about this than I. He said, yes, our pup is missing out on some doggy training, but she'll be getting a little extra human interaction, which isn't a bad thing. He said this early phase of her life is merely one of many in the upcoming weeks and months, and as long as we have an older, gentle dog around (we do!) then the consequences will be minimized. 

We've taken some solace in this advice and have spent lots and lots of time with our pup and our other dog, and our older dog has taken on some of the responsibility of training her. It started out slow, but after a week our dogs seem to be responding to each other.

Yes, more work will be required but it's summer and hopefully we can find that time.

This is the greatest forum and I appreciate all the comments on this, my first post. I'll keep coming back and reading what goes on here because I find this is a very informative and helpful group to be involved in. Thanks a lot, everyone!


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

ripley said:


> Hi, I'm new here.
> 
> We just got our new Sunny on Thursday, and we were told by the owner she was 8 weeks old. Our vet said she was in good shape, but she wan't 8 weeks, but younger. I called the owner back and he revealed that she was actually 5 weeks old.
> 
> ...


See if you can find puppy friendly dogs for her to play with on a regular basis, puppies if you can find healthy ones near her age. She is missing the learning curve of bite inhibition, trading and sharing toys, etc.


----------



## luverofpeanuts (Jun 9, 2011)

ripley said:


> and as long as we have an older, gentle dog around (we do!) then the consequences will be minimized.


We lost our precious Jazzy in January. However, she is the reason we added two new Golden pups to our home just recently. She came to us at 5 weeks old. 

Back in '99, and a year and half after learning to become true dog people with our wonder Abby girl, we came across Jazzy near my mother in law's place. We didn't know any better, and the breeder was a not a breeder... just someone whose dog had a litter of puppies  

We were walking by and and this little 5 week old golden bundle of joy came right up to our Abby and captured our hearts. Abby mothered her so well, even being only 18 months older than her. 

My only reason for posting is to say that you've had to absorb alot of information about the pros and cons, and that's good... you're armed with info! I think you're vet is on the right track... what's done is done...and you have a lot of opportunity to shape your pup into a wonderful dog, in spite of being young. Our Jazzy was proof of that and I'm sure there are many others. 

Best of luck to you!


----------



## ripley (Jun 17, 2011)

*Parallel stories...*



luverofpeanuts said:


> We lost our precious Jazzy in January. However, she is the reason we added two new Golden pups to our home just recently. She came to us at 5 weeks old.
> 
> ...and the breeder was a not a breeder... just someone whose dog had a litter of puppies


Thank you, luverofpeanuts, your story sounds like mine! This guy wasn't a breeder, though he took out an online ad with _a lot of the right words_. 

We lost Ginger a few weeks ago. No one could come close to replacing our 13-year-old yellow lab. And Nicky, our other dog (a Lab/Husky mix), was really sad and so were we. We jumped at the chance to get a Golden. Perhaps we were naive.

But our Sunny has been wonderful and is growing up so fast. Your story gives me hope and I really appreciate your sharing it with me. Thank you.


----------



## West (Jul 9, 2010)

I got Cooper when he was 44 days old. Other than being overly worried at first because he seemed do tiny, I haven't had any problems with him. He's extremely sociable with other dogs and with people. He is a bit stubborn, but no more than most Goldens I've met. He's healthy and sweet.
I know it isn't the ideal situation, but it's nothing serious if you handle it well. It is important for you to tech him some boundaries (not to bite, for example) and I'm sure your older dog will be an enormous help in that area. Your pup will be fine. Just provide all the socialization possible and don't let her get away with anything now that you wouldn't allow once she's grown.

BTW, the breeder was extremely irresponsible and I'd be furious with him, but I don't think the pup will be better if you return her there.


----------



## Flicks mom (Jan 7, 2013)

We live in Minnesota and were also niave. The person that sold us the pup said the pup was 7 weeks old. Only to find out he was 5 weeks old!!! It has been a long 3 weeks to make it to the 8 week mark. Not to mention the guy that sold us the pup said he was AKC registered and would have his 1st vaccines. All the vets I contacted said no vaccines until 8 weeks old!!! We were offered no money back. Flick is a good pup, and we have 3 cats he has been socializing with and at Christmas time 2 other Goldens as well. Only one of our cats is curious enough to hang out with him and socialize lots with him, the other 2 could pretty much care less. After reading all this I am really mad with the seller of the pup. I should have done more research into this before we jumped into this. I guess there is a reason certain pups are more money and have better guarantee's that what we got. Flick is very cute and I think he will be a great pup, but it has been a long 3 weeks so far!


----------



## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

Wow, that is terrible! I am happy your puppy is doing well, but I think that you should report whoever you got her from - it is not safe to sell pups this young and not everyone will be as responsible and do the research like you are.


----------



## Flicks mom (Jan 7, 2013)

The one good thing Flick has going for him is that I have had goldens and labs all my life, just never this young!! I will do whatever is necessary to make the best of what has happened! My mom and husband say I am already spoiling him. He is such a baby though! I even thought about getting another golden puppy, but 1 is more than I can afford and handle at this time. We go to the Vet this week for 1st shots, Flick is officially 8 weeks old tomorrow!!! This is what we should have been bringing home all along. 

And yes, I will take all the tips and advise I can get!


----------



## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

wow, that's ridiculous. Hes gonna require additional training, definately a trainer, and right now hes gonna require alot of attention, alot of nurturing, and try to expose him to lots of people and puppies near his age if possible, im sorry this happened to you


----------



## Deber (Aug 23, 2011)

I am so sorry this has happened to you, but so glad you are dog knowledgeable and jumped right in. Just socialize after he has his Vet check as much as possible. There is a good thread on Yogi, by Dallas Gold and all she is doing to socialize. Very detailed and gives so many ideas. 

Good luck and keep us abreast on your progress. Know it will be ok.


----------



## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

5 week old pups are so very fragile- such a different level of responsibility from a fat, sturdy 8 or 9 week old chubba. I do not know how breeders can bear to send little, little babies out into the world like that. It is so heartless. However, the owners are so loving and give the babies a chance.


----------

