# Best Field Training Program



## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I have many sources of information, some that date back I think 50 years. I like Evan Graham's Smartworks---current, complete, well written, durable and easy to read.


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## splashdash (Aug 5, 2013)

I also use smartworks, although Lardy's stuff is the gold standard. You can just get the Lardy books and save $ not buying the videos. Graham is a little better for the novice also, he explains almost all training related terms. Carol Cassity's compilation of drills is pretty handy too. And I still use some things from Dobb's Tritronics book. You can find them used and heavily discounted online. All of these systems assume you will be using an e-collar. If you chose to go Amish, maybe an old copy of Training your Retriever by James Lamb Free?


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I thought your pup was with a pro trainer?

I trained using mainly Lardy's manuals (after attending a seminar) with Graham's as a backup (I liked getting two different viewpoints on the same task). Now I often recommend Rick Stawski's videos as well. They all basically follow the same steps, one may "speak" to you best but I think it helps to hear it three different ways.


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## Octavius (Dec 13, 2011)

splashdash said:


> I also use smartworks, although Lardy's stuff is the gold standard. You can just get the Lardy books and save $ not buying the videos. Graham is a little better for the novice also, he explains almost all training related terms. Carol Cassity's compilation of drills is pretty handy too. And I still use some things from Dobb's Tritronics book. You can find them used and heavily discounted online. All of these systems assume you will be using an e-collar. If you chose to go Amish, maybe an old copy of Training your Retriever by James Lamb Free?


 
Alright, perhaps I am Amish and didn't know it, but what is an "E-Collar"?


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

hahaha Octavius you are not Amish - I personally like James Free Lamb (the bible of retrieving) and James Spencer.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Octavius said:


> Alright, perhaps I am Amish and didn't know it, but what is an "E-Collar"?


Do you show up at hunt tests in a buggy? Now that's Amish.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

K9-Design said:


> I thought your pup was with a pro trainer?
> 
> I trained using mainly Lardy's manuals (after attending a seminar) with Graham's as a backup (I liked getting two different viewpoints on the same task). Now I often recommend Rick Stawski's videos as well. They all basically follow the same steps, one may "speak" to you best but I think it helps to hear it three different ways.


Thanks for asking, good catch. 

Our pup is with the Minors up in IL, but we are picking her up this month, as she needs to mature before going into transition. I will of course work with the trainer and keep building on what foundation he has built, calling when necessary, but she will not go back with the pro until January when he moves down to Texas.

Therefore, I wanted to brush up on training, and the only one I have used is Smartwork.....so like others, I may need more than one approach....


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

For the old school train of thought, I like the book: Charles Morgan on Retrievers. The philosophy is instructive and it's a fun read with some great old photos.

As for materials, all of the ones mentioned are good. BUT the MOST BENEFICIAL resource will be a TRAINING GROUP with EXPERIENCED and SUCCESSFUL trainers. (Okay, per internet etiquette, the all caps may be a no-no, but consider those words to be emphasized, not yelled.)

There are quite a few trainers in the KC area, so contact the local clubs in order to join and for a list of members (the field trial club is the Kansas City Retriever Club, which is holding its fall field trial in Sedalia on October 18 - 20). I suggest that you go watch these incredible animals playing at the top of the game ... it's inspiring ... and meet some people. 

Also, a couple of "A List" field trial pros are in the area, Bobby George and Bill Eckett. For what it's worth, both of those guys have had high levels of success with Goldens (personally, I believe that Goldens are trained just like Labs ... there's more intra-breed variation than inter-breed variation). They are field trial trainers, but they can train a darned excellent hunt test dog as well (plus, if your pooch shows the talent, ...).

Anyway, have fun training!

FTGoldens


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

Are you 'all saying I need a "Horse & Buggy" to train my Golden's?


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

Thanks to all for the quick help! Attached are pictures of our girl Foxy, at 8 weeks....32 weeks....she is now almost 8 months old.


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## Leslie B (Mar 17, 2011)

For the beginning trainer I like Smartworks - the dvd set is great for showing how a response should look like. Well worth the money as opposed to a book where you read about training. An added plus is that Evan kicks around on this site from time to time so you can ask him directly if you have any questions.

Lardy is great but I think that he makes some assumptions about the ability of the trainer and he is not for the novice.

I also like Stawski's "Fowl Dawgs" as it is to the point and cheap. Again, not for the notice.


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## Tatnall (May 20, 2008)

Hillmann does have videos that go basically through transition now, FWIW. I am a Lardy fan, but Evan's program is very similar. If you are new to it, there is the added advantage that Evan is very accessible so if you have questions.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Absolutely agree with FT Goldens--your best resource is an experienced training group full of successful members with a consistent approach, or the ability to consistently day-train with a good pro. The Miners have their own spin on a system, so I would ask them which resources they recommend that _*complement*_ the work they have already done with your dog, and will be doing once she goes for transition training.

My list of resources that I recommend to people wanting to study up varies baed on whether they are willing to use FF and an e-collar or not. Those who chose not to use an e-collar are often referred to as "Amish" trainers because they are not using electricity (since an e-collar is a remotely activated training collar). "Amish" however, does not mean force-free. A lot of the old pre-collar methods were pretty brutal, and I find the collar to be a far fairer and friendlier tool.

*My list for folks willing to use FF and an e-collar*:
_Retriever Puppy Training_ by Cherylon Loveland (book on basics)
_Training with Mike Lardy_ (Articles from the Retriever Journal)
_Total Retriever Training_ videos (Lardy)
_Smartworks_ books and videos


*Non-FF or e-collar*:
Lorrie Jolly's _Motivational Training for the Field_
James Spenser _Training Retrievers ..._ series of books
LumLaddie blog
I do not recommend James Lamb Free to ANYONE--it really would be difficult to get a dog beyond JH level skills with his methods now, and some of what he recommends goes counter to a lot of what we now know about how dogs learn, particularly young dogs.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I would ask the Miners which training program is closest to the way they train if you intend to send the pup back to them at some point. It seems a disservice to have them train the pup and then use a different method when training on your own. 
JMO




goldlover68 said:


> Thanks for asking, good catch.
> 
> Our pup is with the Minors up in IL, but we are picking her up this month, as she needs to mature before going into transition. I will of course work with the trainer and keep building on what foundation he has built, calling when necessary, but she will not go back with the pro until January when he moves down to Texas.
> 
> Therefore, I wanted to brush up on training, and the only one I have used is Smartwork.....so like others, I may need more than one approach....


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

sterregold said:


> Absolutely agree with FT Goldens--your best resource is an experienced training group full of successful members with a consistent approach, or the ability to consistently day-train with a good pro. The Miners have their own spin on a system, so I would ask them which resources they recommend that _*complement*_ the work they have already done with your dog, and will be doing once she goes for transition training.
> 
> My list of resources that I recommend to people wanting to study up varies baed on whether they are willing to use FF and an e-collar or not. Those who chose not to use an e-collar are often referred to as "Amish" trainers because they are not using electricity (since an e-collar is a remotely activated training collar). "Amish" however, does not mean force-free. A lot of the old pre-collar methods were pretty brutal, and I find the collar to be a far fairer and friendlier tool.
> 
> ...





FTGoldens said:


> For the old school train of thought, I like the book: Charles Morgan on Retrievers. The philosophy is instructive and it's a fun read with some great old photos.
> 
> As for materials, all of the ones mentioned are good. BUT the MOST BENEFICIAL resource will be a TRAINING GROUP with EXPERIENCED and SUCCESSFUL trainers. (Okay, per internet etiquette, the all caps may be a no-no, but consider those words to be emphasized, not yelled.)
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the good information, I have already contacted a *training group* that meets close to where we live. They seem to have a good group of handlers and trainers at all levels. We will attend there next training.

I am working closely with John Minor and will have a detailed understanding of his program and where our girl is in each area. John and I will continue to talk weekly so that I do as much as possible to reinforce and maintain her training program. 

I have run hunt tests at the 'Ranch' in Sedaila, MO is that a fine place to run. I am assuming the trial is at that location? Will make it if we can, I have watched trials before and ran in many hunt tests with my Goldens. 

I haven't decided if I want to work locally with a pro, but I might....I will contact these guys if I want to take that step. A second opinion might be good....just thinking out loud...but until I actually pick up my girl and spend some time training with her....I will not be sure....but I appreciate the names....and the time you took answering...

CC


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

hotel4dogs said:


> I would ask the Miners which training program is closest to the way they train if you intend to send the pup back to them at some point. It seems a disservice to have them train the pup and then use a different method when training on your own.
> JMO


 
I agree and John and I have already started this as he is preparing a report for me that will detail where he is with our girl, what has she done and what is she still working on, and what has yet to be introduced. We will review it when I pick her up this week, and he will run her with me on some of the areas he is working on. Of course we will talk weekly, as I do plan on using John later, after our girl matures a bit more.

Thanks for your comments.....


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

FTGoldens said:


> For the old school train of thought, I like the book: Charles Morgan on Retrievers. The philosophy is instructive and it's a fun read with some great old photos.
> 
> As for materials, all of the ones mentioned are good. BUT the MOST BENEFICIAL resource will be a TRAINING GROUP with EXPERIENCED and SUCCESSFUL trainers. (Okay, per internet etiquette, the all caps may be a no-no, but consider those words to be emphasized, not yelled.)
> 
> ...


See my comments on page 2.....thanks for the help!


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

hotel4dogs said:


> I would ask the Miners which training program is closest to the way they train if you intend to send the pup back to them at some point. It seems a disservice to have them train the pup and then use a different method when training on your own.
> JMO


See my comments on page 2.....and thanks for the information


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## Klamath Gold (Dec 26, 2008)

I believe you have received some good advice, however I will throw in mine as well.
I believe you mentioned that you are with a pro and taking a break while your pup is maturing. I would ask your pro what he/she recommends that dovetails into their program.

With that said, I use Smartwork by Evan. I think the one thing that has been useful is that Evan is active on several forums, including this one. I have sent him a question via PM in the past and had a wonderful response.

Good luck with your girl


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