# UPDATE for my high speed shots blurry with Canon SLR thread



## Sydney's Mom (May 1, 2012)

These are AWESOME. I love the one of your pups mouth catching the water.

I did something similar yesterday. I was going to an agility trial (just watching) and wanted to make sure I would get clear images of the dogs running. My photos are always blurry. I read your entire other thread and took some advice. Then I spent like 30 minutes setting my camera on manual. The photos turned out pretty great, I think!

Here is the flikr link: AAC Regionals 2013 - a set on Flickr


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Your photos look awesome! AI Servo is a great tool. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## drofen (Feb 2, 2013)

Yep pic #5 is a keeper. NICE job!

What lens are you using? Some zoom lenses have variable apertures, meaning at different focal lengths the wide open apertures may differ. You might see this expressed on the side of the lens as f1:3.5-5.6. Typically the longer the focal length, the less it will open.


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## Jingers mom (Feb 10, 2012)

I think these are great action shots.... 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## JayBen (Aug 30, 2012)

drofen said:


> Yep pic #5 is a keeper. NICE job!
> 
> What lens are you using? Some zoom lenses have variable apertures, meaning at different focal lengths the wide open apertures may differ. You might see this expressed on the side of the lens as f1:3.5-5.6. Typically the longer the focal length, the less it will open.


That is exactly the numbers it says on my lens. Its just the lens it came with. Is the focal length the amount I've turned the lens to zoom in? Also If I were to get a faster lens that number on my top screen would go down more? 

Thanks so much I know some of my questions are probably silly :doh:



Sydneysmom- I just checked out your shots on flickr wow! they are awesome


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## FeatherRiverSam (Aug 7, 2009)

Those are some very good action shots...the al servo and higher shutter speeds are definately contributing to help freeze the action shots. By opening up your aperture you're allowing more light to the sensor allowing faster shutter speeds and lower ISO's. Nice work.

Pete & Woody


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## drofen (Feb 2, 2013)

JayBen said:


> That is exactly the numbers it says on my lens. Its just the lens it came with. Is the focal length the amount I've turned the lens to zoom in? Also If I were to get a faster lens that number on my top screen would go down more?
> 
> Thanks so much I know some of my questions are probably silly :doh:


Focal length is the working length of a lens in mm, so yes it does correlate to how much you've zoomed in. So, on your kit lens, it's range is likely 18-55mm. 18mm is the wide angle side of things, and 55mm starts to zoom in. So, the way that particular lens is set up at 18mm the widest aperture (smallest number) is 3.5, but at 55mm, the widest aperture (smallest number) is 5.6. At various focal lengths through the zoom, that smallest number will move through the range f3.5-5.6.

And yes, a "fast" lens has a very small number (very wide aperture). Generally speaking anything f2.8 or lower (down to 1.0!!!) is considered a fast lens.

You'll also notice the more expensive lenses won't have that range listed for the bottom number. For example, my Canon 17-40mm f4L lens has consistent lowest number all the way through--f4. A Canon 70-200mm f2.8L will have a f2.8 through the entire zoom range. It's part of the reason they can be so expensive. (Other reasons being quality of glass, and very efficient/fast focusing mechanisms.)

ETA, your questions are not silly at all. And it's kind of cool to see you take info from here and dramatically improve your photos!


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## soxOZ (Dec 13, 2007)

There are no silly questions, but occasionally there will be some silly answers... ... ... ...

I guess the explanation of the variable aperture as previously explained, you do understand, but my suggestion is if you are shooting moving objects (like your dog running) use shutter priority (Tv for Canon I think).

The minimum speed to stop camera shake/blur is determined with this simple formula...
_1/FL (focal length) = __Shutter Speed_
eg: if you are using a 200mm lens, then,
_1/200mm = 1/200 sec shutter speed._

This is usually considered the min shutter speed for a set FL, but 2 things to take into consideration, 
1: if your lens has IS (image stabilization), you can shoot at a much lower speed and this will help with camera shake / blur... 
2: But IS will not stop motion blur (moving object) and you will usually need a much higher shutter speed to capture a dog running (eg 1/400 sec and up).
Again, this is something you will work out really quickly after trying different shutter speeds.

But for stationary or very slow moving objects, where you want to control the DOF (depth of field), so you get those OOF (out of focus) background shots, use Aperture Priority.
Also if you haven't already, turn on the auto ISO as this will make it easier for you to get the shot when the light isn't always right.

And use manual settings when you want full control of how you are shooting, but this will come with time & experience... 
Good luck and happy shooting...


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## Pixie (Jun 13, 2012)

Great Pictures


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## drofen (Feb 2, 2013)

soxOZ said:


> There are no silly questions, but occasionally there will be some silly answers... ... ... ...
> 
> I guess the explanation of the variable aperture as previously explained, you do understand, but my suggestion is if you are shooting moving objects (like your dog running) use shutter priority (Tv for Canon I think).
> 
> ...


Well goodness, I'm sorry you find my attempts to help silly. I hope you got a good laugh at my expense at least. And thanks for rolling your eyes  at me, it's so warm and friendly when people do that.

So, I bow out and defer to the professional, I am merely self taught you know. Purely amateur.

One day I hope my snapshots can measure up.


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## FeatherRiverSam (Aug 7, 2009)

Hey Wally...just silly answers? That seems to be a bit out of character. You've always been so supportive, I'm a bit surprised. I can only assume you didn't intend to take a shot at anyone here but I think there are more diplomatic ways of getting your point across should you disagree with someone. Your photographic skills are beyond question and I for one am always happy for any input you have. A bunch of smiley faces after a shot doesn't help soften the blow.

Pete & Woody


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

Nice shots! Love them!


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## soxOZ (Dec 13, 2007)

drofen said:


> Well goodness, I'm sorry you find my attempts to help silly. I hope you got a good laugh at my expense at least. And thanks for rolling your eyes  at me, it's so warm and friendly when people do that.
> So, I bow out and defer to the professional, I am merely self taught you know. Purely amateur.
> One day I hope my snapshots can measure up.


 *What...!!! WOW… Talk about being misunderstood… 
How did you ever get that notion from the statement below..????* 

_There are no silly questions, but occasionally there will be some silly answers... _

What, just because my Post was directly below the one you posted, and you thought that I was refereeing to you..??? WRONG..!!!!
What I said in that first line doesn’t refer to you or anyone (in this thread).

But when you are a beginner, and post questions on the net, and trying to learn, all I was declaring was that there are *‘no silly question’* as you are learning, but over time I have seen plenty of incorrect answers (even on photo forums) and this is what I was referring to as silly answers. 

I really don’t know how anybody misinterpreted this and to especially think that it was directed at you or anybody else especially in this thread… 

Also if you read, what I also said was…

_I guess the explanation of the variable aperture* as previously explained, you do understand*, but my suggestion is if you are shooting moving objects (like your dog running) use shutter priority (Tv for Canon I think)._

Now this was referring *to your correct explanation* and what I was asking was that the OP did understand what you said… 
Remember, I was talking to the OP, not you...
I was actually complimenting you on your answer, but I guess that got lost somewhere when you read it…



FeatherRiverSam said:


> Hey Wally...just silly answers? That seems to be a bit out of character. You've always been so supportive, I'm a bit surprised. I can only assume you didn't intend to take a shot at anyone here but I think there are more diplomatic ways of getting your point across should you disagree with someone. Your photographic skills are beyond question and I for one am always happy for any input you have. A bunch of smiley faces after a shot doesn't help soften the blow.
> 
> Pete & Woody


 Hey Pete, let me tell you that I would never intentionally belittle anybody, and if there was an incorrect statement in one of the answers, I would either direct it to the person who posted it or PM them, but I would never make any sly remark… 
As I usually turn the other way when I see some funny answers (almost correct but not totally) to questions about photography. 

If you are referring to the first line of my answer, this was directed at the OP, and was just trying to point out that there are “_no trivial or silly questions_”… 
But there are some silly answers out there and was said in jest, and you should look more closely at the answers you are given… Even mine..!!!
That’s why the rolling eyes and smiley faces at the end of that line… 

Anyway, I still don’t believe that what I posted was degrading to anybody, as I was only trying to assist the OP to understand how to capture great shots of their dog…
But I’m sorry that anyone may have misinterpreted what I did post and thought that it was negative or sly remark against them…


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## akgolden (Jun 18, 2011)

Great shots! Do not be afraid to crank the ISO up some either. The newer cameras take amazing photos even with the ISO being bumped up. Unless you are blowing them up into posters you would never see the difference in quality from an ISO of 100 and an ISO of 800. 

Plus I would rather sacrifice just a hair of image quality and get the shot than try and make the shot work with the wrong settings and coming out under exposed or blurry 


Keep up the work, only way to get better is keep playing with the camera.


edit, read the whole thread. I don't think anyone was trying to belittle or talk down to anyone. I think that was taken way out of context and misunderstood.


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## akgolden (Jun 18, 2011)

Also I am not a fan of photobucket. Look into Drop Box. It's a free service, can store any kind of files you would like and can share them using the image code. 


www.dropbox.com


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## drofen (Feb 2, 2013)

soxOZ said:


> *What...!!! WOW… Talk about being misunderstood…
> How did you ever get that notion from the statement below..????*
> 
> _There are no silly questions, but occasionally there will be some silly answers... _
> ...


Hey Wally--

If that's how you meant what you said, then you are correct, I totally misunderstood you. 

I do apologize for the snarkiness in my reply--had more to do with my work hangover than you. I was a bit crabby. Sorry. One of these days I'll learn to just step away from the computer until I'm in a better frame of mind. 

Back to topic--

The Tv vs Av debate is an interesting one to me. I suppose it reflects where the photographer in question's roots lie. For me, since I learned photography by shooting portraits and landscapes, after exposure, DOF is probably the most important element of composition. I see shutter speed as a tool to achieve the DOF I desire (except when trying to blur water or create star trails etc.)

Lately I've seen several people advocate the Tv "philosophy" and have nice images to show for it.


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## soxOZ (Dec 13, 2007)

drofen said:


> Hey Wally-- If that's how you meant what you said, then you are correct, I totally misunderstood you.
> 
> I do apologize for the snarkiness in my reply--had more to do with my work hangover than you. I was a bit crabby. Sorry. One of these days I'll learn to just step away from the computer until I'm in a better frame of mind.
> 
> ...


Hey not a problem, at least it's all cleared up...

This is a very quick summery on what Mode I used to photograph & why...

*MANUAL Mode:* 
This is used when I want complete control of DOF and to get the correct shutter speed for the lens I'm using. 
I only shoot flash photography in MANUAL mode with the ISO set to either 200 or 400. 
But usually have the Auto ISO turned on for all manual mode use (except flash and night shots).
As cameras these day are capable of producing usable images up to ISO 6400 and up on some models.

*APERTURE PRIORITY Mode: *
I use this when I am concerned about the DOF I want and not too worried about the shutter speed.
I use it when the the object/s are stationary, for portraits, landscapes or if the camera is mounted on a tripod, like night shots with long exposures.
With this I will either have a set ISO or leave it Auto ISO depending on the situation and what I'm shooting.

*SHUTTER PRIORITY Mode:*
I will always use this for any moving objects (slow & fast), like your dog running, car races etc.
Of course you don't have the same control with DOF like in aperture or Manual mode, because in shutter priority the aperture can be constantly changing to keep the correct metering if you have variable light conditions.
Also I tend to always use Auto ISO as well. 

Which Mode do I use the most, well for me, Shutter, then Manual and finally Aperture Mode, as this suits what I usually shoot.
But everybody will have different likes, requirements and opinions on what they use.
So try them all and see which suits you the best for what you shoot...

But naturally there are a lot more things that have to be taken into consideration when photographing as there are literally thousands of different condition and situations and each has its own setting to get the best shot.
But what I have listed here is only the Basics of why I use the different Modes. 
I hope that this makes sense to you and that it may help you...


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## FeatherRiverSam (Aug 7, 2009)

I wish I could say that's the first time I misunderstood someone which of course it isn't but in this case I'll be more than happy to own up to it. Sorry Wally, I should have know better. You've both inspired me with your photographic talents and been more than willing to offer advice when asked. Thank you.

Regarding the aperture vs shutter speed question to me it would seem the subject matter and desired results would dictate the priority. But even then both contribute greatly, along with several other factors, to the over all results.

Addressing the OP's question regarding blurring action shots shutter speed would be the first question I'd ask. If he's trying freeze running dogs into sharp focus shooting at 1/60, regardless of aperture or ISO, he's got a long day ahead of him.

As has been pointed out many other factors come into play including available light, lens speed, shooting technique, image stabilization, focal length...etc.. DOF is most influenced, in my experience, by aperture but a pleasant bokeh can be achieved by panning the shot.

From what I've learned shooting in the manual mode gives one the most control over his camera however it does present certain limitations. And this is where the experience of the photographer really comes into play. 

In my limited experience the first area I'd be willing to push is the ISO. Today's DSLR's allow pushing the ISO to achieve desired results without sacrificing significant image quality. I agree setting the camera to auto ISO can be very effective in achieving those desired results when timing is critical. 

Now does focal length effect DOF? I think it would...if you're shooting a 70 / 200 zoom lens it would seem shoots taken at 70 f 16 verses shots taken at 200 f16 the greater focal length is going to have the deeper DOF?


Pete & Woody


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## drofen (Feb 2, 2013)

I'd say for me,

Aperture Priority 85% everyday shooting

Manual 10% when shooting flash, strobes, or night photography

Shutter Priority 5% I usually only use shutter when I'm on the very edge of light conditions where I have to guarantee a certain shutter speed to eliminate camera shake. Likely I'll be rescuing images in my RAW conversions for exposure. I guess I need to shoot a little more in Tv mode in less extreme conditions. 

I also rarely use auto ISO, but I'm using a DIGIC III "dinosaur" where I can still see a marked degradation in IQ at ISO 1600. Hoping to spring for a new body soon.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I do use shutter mode as my default, because mostly what I'm shooting is wildlife from a trail or a kayak, so reducing blur is the hardest part of what I do. I can pick the minimum shutter speed I know will work for the situation (1/1250 to handle camera motion and moving subjects, 1/1600 for small birds, 1/2000 for flapping birds) and let the camera set the rest. Those high shutter speeds on top of the large focal length I tend to have when shooting wildlife, tend to create a shallow DOF, which I think is cool for a moving subject.

For portraits I do (largely for friends and family), I shoot in aperture mode, and I've gotten much braver about that as we've discussed it on the forum. My new camera performs wonderfully in indoor lighting, so pegging the DOF I want while still getting enough light is a great learning experience.


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## JayBen (Aug 30, 2012)

drofen said:


> Yep pic #5 is a keeper. NICE job!
> 
> What lens are you using? Some zoom lenses have variable apertures, meaning at different focal lengths the wide open apertures may differ. You might see this expressed on the side of the lens as f1:3.5-5.6. Typically the longer the focal length, the less it will open.


This finally clicked the other day...  I had that light bulb going off in my head moment. For a while there I couldn't figure out why if I was zoomed in I couldn't set my aperture as low as I could when I wasn't zoomed in. 

I checked out your blog of Maxwell, your photos are awesome man.

SoxOZ- Thanks for your your advice. Next time I get out I will play around with TV mode. If only I had auto ISO. Your pictures are just amazing and inspiring.

Tippy- Your bird photography is just great. I really enjoyed checking them out.

All of you have really got my photography interest sparked again.


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## drofen (Feb 2, 2013)

JayBen said:


> This finally clicked the other day...  I had that light bulb going off in my head moment. For a while there I couldn't figure out why if I was zoomed in I couldn't set my aperture as low as I could when I wasn't zoomed in.
> 
> I checked out your blog of Maxwell, your photos are awesome man.
> 
> ...


Haha, had an old chemistry teacher who referred to that light bulb moment as the "Aha! moment".

You've actually helped me to pick up my camera and start shooting more as well.

Others on here too, Tippy and Pete, etc.


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## soxOZ (Dec 13, 2007)

As you are finding out there isn’t a wrong or right with which Mode you use (Well most of the time) as this is more of a user preference, as long as you achieve the desired results…

Instead of trying to write lengthy explanations with samples on perspective, FL & DOF, I just did a quick Google search and found a few sites that could be of interest to you and have explanations to maybe some of those questions you may have… 
Links to those sites below...

*Effect FL has on background distance to the subject (Perspective).*

Notice how the bridge gets closer as the FL gets longer when going from 12mm to 200mm.

Nikon | Imaging Products | Digital SLR Camera Basics | Focal Length and Angle of view

Nikon | Imaging Products | Digital SLR Camera Basics | Perspective


*More sites with examples....*

Exploring How Focal Length Affects Images

Focal Length and Camera-to-Subject Distance Affect the Visual Dynamics of Your Photographs | BH inDepth

Perspective Control in Images - Focal Length or Distance? (a tutorial) - Canon Digital Photography Forums

*
This is a very handy tool you show the differences between FL from Tamron Lens site...*
And can maybe help you choose the correct lens for you...

Focal length comparison tool, Tamron USA

*
Effect how FL has on distortion...*

How Focal Length and Subject Distance Affect Weight... As Seen with a Cat
*

This also worth a read and has explanations...*

Photography Techniques: Perspective

:wavey:


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## Michele4 (Oct 28, 2012)

This one is with a Nikon J1 just set on continuous mode. I got it for Christmas, I like it without getting to technical.


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## FeatherRiverSam (Aug 7, 2009)

I received this reply over on the canon website from TeamSpeed regarding focal length & DOF...


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## rik6230 (Jan 8, 2008)

JayBen said:


>


I like your action shots  All your pictures are in focus only this one. The stones, the grass and the dog are not in focus. Try to make a steady shot and don't move the camera when you are taken a picture. 



soxOZ said:


> As you are finding out there isn’t a wrong or right with which Mode you use (Well most of the time) as this is more of a user preference, as long as you achieve the desired results…


Yes but what result do you desire ? 
If you are satisfied with a sharp (in focus) photo; it is true. If you want to use the possibilities of photography it isn't true.
(in my opinion :wavey 

This. is what I mean. (not my photo !) 
If the man was in focus too it was a totally different photo. With the aperture mode you can control this, with the shutterspeed mode you can not. Aperture is a goal, shutter speed is only a tool.
(just for me )

Interesting to read

One of mine (aperture mode) action photos


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## drofen (Feb 2, 2013)

FeatherRiverSam said:


> I received this reply over on the canon website from TeamSpeed regarding focal length & DOF...


Nice find Pete. I *think* this is pretty much what you and I were dancing around in our PM conversation. 



rik said:


> Yes but what result do you desire ?
> If you are satisfied with a sharp (in focus) photo; it is true. If you want to use the possibilities of photography it isn't true.
> (in my opinion :wavey
> 
> ...


Thanks for this rik. It's what I was feeling, but you expressed it much more eloquently.


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## Kylie (Feb 16, 2013)

tippykayak said:


> I do use shutter mode as my default, because mostly what I'm shooting is wildlife from a trail or a kayak, so reducing blur is the hardest part of what I do. I can pick the minimum shutter speed I know will work for the situation (1/1250 to handle camera motion and moving subjects, 1/1600 for small birds, 1/2000 for flapping birds) and let the camera set the rest. Those high shutter speeds on top of the large focal length I tend to have when shooting wildlife, tend to create a shallow DOF, which I think is cool for a moving subject.
> 
> For portraits I do (largely for friends and family), I shoot in aperture mode, and I've gotten much braver about that as we've discussed it on the forum. My new camera performs wonderfully in indoor lighting, so pegging the DOF I want while still getting enough light is a great learning experience.


Do you mind me asking what camera(s) you use? I am currently saving for a new one.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Kylie said:


> Do you mind me asking what camera(s) you use? I am currently saving for a new one.


Sure! I got a Canon 6D with the Canon 24-105 L lens, and I also got a Canon 100-400 L lens more recently for wildlife photography.


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## Kylie (Feb 16, 2013)

tippykayak said:


> Sure! I got a Canon 6D with the Canon 24-105 L lens, and I also got a Canon 100-400 L lens more recently for wildlife photography.


Is that the camera that lets you use your iPhone as a remote? I don't have an iPhone, but it would be a really cool feature to have. Is it only for one iPhone, or any iPhone you want (I am assuming it works with an app)? Thanks, Kylie 
p.s. i absolutely love the second one down on this page Puppy Tao It's an amazing shot! Who is it?


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Kylie said:


> Is that the camera that lets you use your iPhone as a remote? I don't have an iPhone, but it would be a really cool feature to have. Is it only for one iPhone, or any iPhone you want (I am assuming it works with an app)? Thanks, Kylie
> p.s. i absolutely love the second one down on this page Puppy Tao It's an amazing shot! Who is it?


Yeah! You can use the Canon app to view what your camera is seeing, change some of the settings on the fly, and trigger the shutter. I've had a lot of fun with that by setting up the camera on a tripod near the bird feeder and clicking the shutter when birds are coming and going. There's another app that lets you preview the photos on your phone or iPad.

I think it works for any iPhone or iPod touch that you put on the same wifi network (the camera can join a wifi network or create one if you're not in range of your own).

Are you talking about the photo of the muddy dog and the two rocks? That's Jax.


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## Kylie (Feb 16, 2013)

tippykayak said:


> Yeah! You can use the Canon app to view what your camera is seeing, change some of the settings on the fly, and trigger the shutter. I've had a lot of fun with that by setting up the camera on a tripod near the bird feeder and clicking the shutter when birds are coming and going. There's another app that lets you preview the photos on your phone or iPad.
> 
> I think it works for any iPhone or iPod touch that you put on the same wifi network (the camera can join a wifi network or create one if you're not in range of your own).
> 
> Are you talking about the photo of the muddy dog and the two rocks? That's Jax.


I was talking about the second photo under the A Crisper Autumn Photo heading. The link didn't work right and I didn't think to check it. Now I want an iPhone or iPod touch plus the camera! This is getting expensive fast :uhoh:


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Kylie said:


> I was talking about the second photo under the A Crisper Autumn Photo heading. The link didn't work right and I didn't think to check it. Now I want an iPhone or iPod touch plus the camera! This is getting expensive fast :uhoh:


Hahaha! It does add up really fast...

The dog in the second photo in A Crisper Autumn Photo is Jax, and I like that picture a lot too.


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## JayBen (Aug 30, 2012)

Kylie said:


> Do you mind me asking what camera(s) you use? I am currently saving for a new one.



I have an EOS20D. Just using the lens it came with for now.


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## soxOZ (Dec 13, 2007)

_Please note, as I’ve been misunderstood already once in this post, and what I say here are my opinions only on how I photograph and are not to be in anyway disrespectful to Rik in this reply or to anyone else’s ideas and their ability for photography… _
*
OK, first things first, “Let’s agree that we can disagree” *... ... *Nicely * :311hi-thu…



rik said:


> I like your action shots. All your pictures are in focus only this one. The stones, the grass and the dog are not in focus. Try to make a steady shot and don't move the camera when you are taken a picture.



I agree with you here except that when taking a photo of a moving subject, especially one going across the frame, you will usually get a better result panning (tracking) the subject (refer to image #5 below) and not holding the camera in one position waiting for your subject to pass through the viewfinder trying to take the shot. 
Now if I may have mistaken what you said by "_Don't move the camera_", if so, understood but that's what I based my suggestion on... 
You’re correct though that the camera has to be held steady even when panning.
My suggestion also is if your camera has the ability for “Continuous Focusing”, then turn it on, as your camera then will try to keep your subject in focus as you are tracking while you are taking the shot.



rik said:


> Yes but what result do you desire?
> If you are satisfied with a sharp (in focus) photo; it is true. If you want to use the possibilities of photography it isn't true.
> (in my opinion)


 I don’t completely understand your statement here, as in your example photo, I am surmising that your goal was to have the subject in focus (the bird) and the background to be OOF (Bokeh), and isn’t this what you desired from the shot. 
Also I don’t understand this part of your statement _“If you are satisfied with a sharp (in focus) photo; it is true”_, but isn't this the goal of taking the photo unless what you are referring to is taking a landscape photo, when you would want the whole frame in focus.



rik said:


> This. is what I mean. (not my photo !)
> If the man was in focus too it was a totally different photo. With the aperture mode you can control this, with the shutter speed mode you can not. Aperture is a goal, shutter speed is only a tool.
> (just for me )


 True, the photo wouldn’t have the same impact if the pitcher was only in focus but I disagree that this photo could only be achieved using Aperture Mode. 
IMHO, you are incorrect to say “with the shutter speed mode you cannot”, as the same result as this can be accomplished in either Shutter or Manual Mode. 
BTW, any mode is a tool to give you the ability to achieve your desired goals… 
And as you said, "_Just for me_" as everybody has their own preferences including me.

OK, let’s look at this same photo of the ball only in focus link you gave, but now lets imagine that this shot is to be taken with only a ¼ of the available light that is in this original photo, like at night or a very dark day.

*Then to take the shot in Aperture mode is fine as long as… *


There's enough available light that will allow the shutter speed to be fast enough to stop a fast moving ball with a usable ISO setting.
You have a fast enough lens so to get the correct exposure and a fast enough shutter speed to stop the ball in flight.
Or have the minimum shutter speed setting in Auto-ISO fast enough to stop the action.
 Now to take this shot in Shutter Mode, you would meter the scene by increasing the shutter speed till you had the camera at base ISO setting (Auto-ISO on), and then increase the shutter speed further so that it gets to the fastest Aperture of the lens you are using or to the desired aperture you want. And then focus on the subject, then shoot.
Or in manual, you can just select the widest aperture or the one you require, and then set the speed of the shutter to stop the action while allowing the Auto-ISO to compensate for exposure if the metering falls below your settings.

Now all these Modes will allow a person to take that shot, so which is the correct one, it's the one that works for you..!!!

OK, let’s now break down what I said in that statement….

“*As you are finding out there isn’t a wrong or right with which Mode you use (Well most of the time)” *
IMHO there isn’t a totally a wrong mode, but there are times when you will get the shot easier in a another mode and also then there are times you will really need to use a different mode to force the camera to do what you want. That’s why I said “_Well most of the time_”

*“as this is more of a user preference”*
Again I believe this is a user preference for most shots that are taken. As by what you said "_Just for me_" you tend favour the use of aperture mode even for fast shots, but I tend to use shutter/manual modes. Again, this is user just preference…

*“as long as you achieve the desired results…*“
So if you do get the results with which ever mode you choose and are comfortable with it, great, but it doesn’t always mean that everybody else will use it that way. I never tell people to use only one way to get a shot, but for them to try different methods, and find the one they like to use and are comfortable with.

That’s why neither of us is right or wrong, but we just take a different road to get to the same point… 
*Getting a great photo…* ... :wavey:...

Now to bore you with some sample shots I’ve taken in different modes…
I’ve included the camera/lens that I used to take the shot alone with the settings.
For those that know how to read the EXIF data, it’s still attached to the photos (except #2.)…

*Aperture Mode... *These 2 shots I used Aperture Priority…

#1. This was my boy Mac on our front Front Lawn 
_Nikon D700 80-200mm f/2.8 @ 200mm f/2.8 1/1500sec 0.00eV ISO 200_









#2. Just a Portrait I took...
_Nikon D300 80-200mm f/2.8 @ 145mm f/2.8 1/640sec -0.33eV ISO 200_










*Shutter Mode...* All these shots were taken in Shutter Priority...

#3. Mac cruzin' on the couch…
_Nikon D700 85mm f/1.8 @ f/1.8 1/80sec 0.00eV ISO 450_









#4. Maccers enjoying the sun…
_Nikon D300 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 @ 200mm f/5.6 1/800sec 0.00eV ISO 200_









#5. Brody running (A friend’s lovely boy). 
_Nikon D300 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 @ 185mm f/5 1/1600sec -0.33eV ISO 400_









#6. Mac walking towards me…
_Nikon D80 28-200mm f/3.5-5.6 @ 200mm f/5.6 1/320sec 0.00eV ISO 360_









#7. Mac running towards me…
_Nikon D300 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 @ 300mm f/5.6 1/800sec 0.00eV ISO 2200_









#8. Brody jumping away from Mattie after she gave him the massage that he was annoying her… 
_Nikon D300 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 @ 155mm f/4.8 1/1600sec 0.00eV ISO 280_









#9. GoKarts. These karts were traveling at around 100kph (60mph)… 
_Nikon D80 80-200mm f/2.8 @ 185mm f/2.8 1/400sec 0.00eV ISO 125_









_#10. D80 80-200mm f/2.8 @ 200mm f/3.5 1/640sec 0.00eV ISO 100_









Hope all of this wasn't too boring... :wavey:


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## rik6230 (Jan 8, 2008)

Jesus Wally, you wrote a book, please give me some time to answer but I agree that we can disagree.


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## FeatherRiverSam (Aug 7, 2009)

IMHO this just goes to show you the flexibility which exists in photography...

Here you have two of whom I consider to be the top photographers on this forum with different approaches yet their work is equally brilliant. If everybody had the same approach it seems like the artistic edge would be sacrificed.

Have at it...

Pete & Woody


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

Love this thread. A bit heated and passionate as with any art. So much great info from all of you 

Please continue sharing. I think it wonderful how all of you articulate your passion and find it quite educational, always something new to be learned.

To me photography is an art. What one may see as ho hum I may think wonderful. No two people look at one single photo the same way which makes it beautiful 

No matter what I can see the artist inside all of you, it is so clear to me. I browse photos all the time and I swear I know right then and there who took the photo. It is that apparent and a singularity if you will as to who you are and or your style.

It truly is an art.


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## soxOZ (Dec 13, 2007)

rik said:


> Jesus Wally, you wrote a book, please give me some time to answer but I agree that we can disagree.


 LOL... Yeah, well that post didn't start out to be that long, but I got carried away explaining my line of thought. 
As you know, it's never easy to answer certain procedures in photography with just a few words and I guess it ended up a bit long. :doh:... ..

But basically all I wanted to say is that we both have different methods, settings and style that we use to get our shots and neither is the wrong way of doing it... 
It's just what suits us and what we're comfortable with...

I understand the methods you use as these were basically the same ones that were first shown to me when I started photography, but over time I changed to what I use now.
Not that what was shown to me initially was wrong, but the more experience I got, is what slowly changed me to the style I use now, which is more comfortable to me.
And really, everybody interested in photography should first learn the basics, and then develop their own style that they are comfortable with.


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## rik6230 (Jan 8, 2008)

soxOZ said:


> I agree with you here except that when taking a photo of a moving subject, especially one going across the frame, you will usually get a better result panning (tracking) the subject (refer to image #5 below) and not holding the camera in one position waiting for your subject to pass through the viewfinder trying to take the shot.
> Now if I may have mistaken what you said by "_Don't move the camera_", if so, understood but that's what I based my suggestion on...
> You’re correct though that the camera has to be held steady even when panning.
> My suggestion also is if your camera has the ability for “Continuous Focusing”, then turn it on, as your camera then will try to keep your subject in focus as you are tracking while you are taking the shot.


Of course you can move the camera with the subject but only if your ss is fast enough.
But as you can see on the photo I refer to, the background and the golden are blurry. And that is because the camera moved to fast. Your excample photo it is 1/1600 ! You can freeze a racing car with that ss.



> I don’t completely understand your statement here, as in your example photo, I am surmising that your goal was to have the subject in focus (the bird) and the background to be OOF (Bokeh), and isn’t this what you desired from the shot.
> Also I don’t understand this part of your statement _“If you are satisfied with a sharp (in focus) photo; it is true”_, but isn't this the goal of taking the photo unless what you are referring to is taking a landscape photo, when you would want the whole frame in focus.



The goal of taking a photo is my opinion not only a sharp, in focus photo. I want a photo wich I have in mind. (DOF) I want the best image quality and I want a sharp in focus photo. That means I first want to controle the aperture and I want a perfect mix of the aperture and iso for the ss I need. ( a lens perfors at it best as it is stop down 1 or 2 stops and ISO should be as low as possible. A higher ISO brings noise into the photo. I choose the aperture, I look at the ss and I adjust with the ISO setting if necessary. That is how I work. 
I looked at your action shots (shutterspeed priority) and I see the camera has chosen the widest possible aperture (only the last one).
Take for excample #5. The ss 1/1600. I would say; 1/800 is enough. So I would have bring back the ISO to 200 or stop down the lens with one stop. 
It would have improve the quality of the photo. The same with the photo of that beautiful women. ss 1/640 and iso 200. Iso 100 would give you 1/320. Fast enough. I would say with that white background f4, ss 1/160 and iso 100 it would give the most optimal quality. 




> True, the photo wouldn’t have the same impact if the pitcher was only in focus but I disagree that this photo could only be achieved using Aperture Mode.
> IMHO, you are incorrect to say “with the shutter speed mode you cannot”, as the same result as this can be accomplished in either Shutter or Manual Mode.
> BTW, any mode is a tool to give you the ability to achieve your desired goals…
> And as you said, "_Just for me_" as everybody has their own preferences including me.


Yes but that is the point. Of course you can achieve this photo with ss priority. But it depends on luck ! If you choose for ss priority the camera is the master not you.
But with aperture priority the photographer is the master and can control.



> Then to take the shot in Aperture mode is fine as long as…
> There's enough available light that will allow the shutter speed to be fast enough to stop a fast moving ball with a usable ISO setting.
> You have a fast enough lens so to get the correct exposure and a fast enough shutter speed to stop the ball in flight.
> Or have the minimum shutter speed setting in Auto-ISO fast enough to stop the action.




I can make any picture in aperture mode that I can make in ss mode or manual mode. The only question is; wich part I want to control; 
Aperture, Shutterspeed and Iso are the three kings of photography. Shutterspeed (most of the time) and ISO are only technical ingredients. Aperture is sometimes a technical ingredient (lens performance) but most of the time it is the creative part. And that part I want to control. 

Nikkor 70-200 VR f2.8. Aperture f4, ss 1/1250 and iso 125. I think this is the best posible combination. Important for me was the shallow DOF. (most of the time it is )









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I could have choosen f2.8 but that would effect the quality to much as you can see. 








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With iso 100 the ss !/1000 maybe would be fast enhough but I took no risk and increase it to 125 

But Wally; I like your photos :wave:


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## rik6230 (Jan 8, 2008)

Hi Wally, 



> Now to take this shot in Shutter Mode, you would meter the scene by increasing the shutter speed till you had the camera at base ISO setting (Auto-ISO on), and then increase the shutter speed further so that it gets to the fastest Aperture of the lens you are using or to the desired aperture you want. And then focus on the subject, then shoot.



Maybe I understand you wrong 

If you want the " fastest aperture of the lens or the desired aperture " why do you shoot in ss mode ? I would choose that "desired" aperture, look at my ss and adjust (if nesessary) with ISO and/or EV


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## soxOZ (Dec 13, 2007)

rik said:


> Yes but that is the point. Of course you can achieve this photo with ss priority. But it depends on luck ! If you choose for ss priority the camera is the master not you.
> But with _aperture priority the photographer is the master_and can control.
> 
> _I can make any picture in aperture mode that I can make in ss mode or manual mode._The only question is; wich part I want to control
> ...


 Thank you Rik, I appreciate your comment about my photos… 
I have always had a high regard on your photography skills… 

Now, I had originally started give replies to your last post as why I chose the settings I did and then realized that really this all comes down to what either of us feels comfortable on how to shoot. 
As you said, you can get these shots in Shutter & Manual mode, and I said that I could get them in Aperture and Manual mode, so what we have here is just a preference on how we acquire the same shot no matter what our reasons are. 

Neither is wrong or right, but you have your comfort zone and familiarity on getting the shot with the setting you use and so do I.
So really, a discussion like this will never end as we are both set in our own ways to how we shoot, whatever that reason may be.


But the only statement I completely disagree with is this one,
“_aperture priority the photographer is the master”_
As the only true master mode in Photography is full Manual Mode (of the shutter, aperture & ISO) is when you have Total Control of everything and in any other mode; it still is always a compromise (even though it may at times only be very slight) by allowing the camera to make a decision for you.

A very good friend of mine has a saying, and it’s so true…

*Amateurs worry about equipment,
Professionals worry about money,
Masters worry about light,
I just take pictures...*

For me, “_I just take pictures_” as this is what I enjoy doing. 
If I’m doing it right or wrong by what others think, it’s not my major concern as long as I get the result I’m after.
And if others like it well that’s great, but if not, then I know that least I still like it …

So I think for me, this is where I finish my discussion on this subject as I will go on to continue shooting the way I prefer.
If I can be helpful to anyone well that’s great, as I'm always willing to give a hand.
But I’ve always said everybody should experiment with their camera, ask questions, but don’t accept only one answer as being the correct one, try each and find what works for you…

So people, grab your camera, get out there and get some great shots of your Golden's, kids or whatever...!!! :wave:


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## drofen (Feb 2, 2013)

soxOZ said:


> *Amateurs worry about equipment,
> Professionals worry about money,
> Masters worry about light,
> I just take pictures...*


Ha! I really like this.


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## rik6230 (Jan 8, 2008)

> But the only statement I completely disagree with is this one,
> “aperture priority the photographer is the master”
> As the only true master mode in Photography is full Manual Mode (of the shutter, aperture & ISO) is when you have Total Control of everything and in any other mode; it still is always a compromise (even though it may at times only be very slight) by allowing the camera to make a decision for you.


That was about the DOF in that particular picture. You can control it with aperture priority and not with shutter speed priority 



> For me, “I just take pictures” as this is what I enjoy doing.
> If I’m doing it right or wrong by what others think, it’s not my major concern as long as I get the result I’m after.
> And if others like it well that’s great, but if not, then I know that least I still like it …


I'm trying to learn every day. 



> A very good friend of mine has a saying, and it’s so true…
> 
> Amateurs worry about equipment,
> Professionals worry about money,
> ...


Then your very good friend has to be Claire Penn a famous UK wedding photographer.  But what is the relevance of that saying for this discussion ?


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