# Service Dog Registration - valid or scamming the public



## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

I wouldn't trust them!


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

But what's interesting is that these dogs are now allowed by law in every business and other dogs, that have extensive training and are super well-mannered are not. That is my point. As far as I can see there is no verification either for the person's affliction or the dog's behavior.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

There is no official registration for service animals.


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## madametrogdor (Mar 27, 2013)

Looks like a scam. Here is a page with more websites to be on the lookout for:

http://http://servicedogcentral.org/content/fake-service-dog-credentials


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

madametrogdor said:


> Looks like a scam. Here is a page with more websites to be on the lookout for:
> 
> http://http://servicedogcentral.org/content/fake-service-dog-credentials


I think you guys don't quite see my point.

Yes, but I've SEEN people in restaurants with dogs with handkerchiefs knotted around their necks and NO ONE can say boo to them. It's a SERVICE DOG, they say. But the business owner may not ask what service nor ask to see any certification that the dog is trained to help (with anything) or that the person has a valid disability. It's is simply wrong.


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## Pammie (Jan 22, 2011)

What the store owner may ask is
Is the dog required because of a disability? or Is this a service dog? and
What work or tasks has the dog been _trained_ to perform?

Trained is key here. The task must mitigate the persons disability in some way. 

Thats it. No certification of training. Certainly no note from the Doctor.
Dog can be asked to leave the premises if it is not in control by the handler, aggressive, barks, is smelly or pees. Handler is free to come back without dog.


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## madametrogdor (Mar 27, 2013)

No, there is no certification. HOWEVER, a business does have the right to ask a person with a "service dog" to leave if their dog is causing a disruption of any sort.

All they can ask is if the dog is trained for a disability, and what the dog does to mitigate said disability. 

It sucks that people are scamming the system to try and get their dogs into places they wouldn't otherwise be allowed, but it is what it is. I am not going to ask someone with a legitimate disability to make their own life harder because some jerk wants to bring his dog to Target.

If they are claiming to have an emotional support dog, they are absolutely required to have a letter from their doctor stating the need. Therapy dogs aren't covered, nor are "comfort dogs" so people who use that can be turned away quite easily.


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## JLC44 (Jun 18, 2013)

Gwen_Dandridge said:


> I think you guys don't quite see my point.
> 
> Yes, but I've SEEN people in restaurants with dogs with handkerchiefs knotted around their necks and NO ONE can say boo to them. It's a SERVICE DOG, they say. But the business owner may not ask what service nor ask to see any certification that the dog is trained to help (with anything) or that the person has a valid disability. It's is simply wrong.



Businesses can ask what tasks they are trained to provide, though most do not (in 6 weeks we have not been asked once yet, we have only been asked if it was a service dog a couple times) Here is the ADA business brief ADA Business Brief: Service Animals

There is no certification for a service dog, and vests are not required. Registering with one of those sites does not make a dog a service dog. A service dog is trained to to mitigate a person's disability. So if you (not you specifically) are not disabled then you don't have a service dog. Camaro is a service dog for our son, my neighbor can not take Camaro and go to the store with him because even though Camaro is a service dog the neighbor isn't disabled, the dog itself does not have access rights, the disabled person has the right to be accompanied by their service dog. Another side of it, our son is disabled (Autism spectrum disorder) he can not borrow a guide dog and take it to the store because while a service dog, it does nothing to mitigate our son's disability.

Also falsely claiming a dog is a service dog is federal fraud, as well as a misdemeanor in some states (Cali for example is 6 month jail and/or $1000 fine)


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

madametrogdor said:


> No, there is no certification. HOWEVER, a business does have the right to ask a person with a "service dog" to leave if their dog is causing a disruption of any sort.
> 
> All they can ask is if the dog is trained for a disability, and what the dog does to mitigate said disability.
> 
> ...


But obviously, there is no valid training for these dogs, not like Guide Dogs for the Blind or other institutions that have a long and respectable history of training. 

One woman I met at a party brought her 'service dog.' He was running around the house (not mine) far from her, off leash. I commented on the dog as his nose was right at the food. She said 'Oh yes, he was a service dog' for her. But I didn't see how he could be a service dog if he wasn't even in the same room.

Anyway, I do think some minimum certification both that the person needs this kind of help and that the dog is capable of behaving in public should be considered. I understand that I am in the minority.


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

Ellie is getting ready to start therapy dog training. I may have her taught to take care of some of my needs eventually, as I have emotional and health issues, but that will not be done here as my trainer is only equipped to teach other therapy work. 

That said, she has told me that if Ellie misbehaves while in training, we will and can be asked to leave. She will have an in training vest, but I could not imagine taking her somewhere shed be disruptive and expect the business owner to accept us. 

In Germany, dogs are allowed almost everywhere. Indoors even, at restaurants and malls. There it was never explicitly said, but dogs were expected to follow certain behaviors before being allowed in.

There are a lot of scams out there, and I believe people who use this to gain favor is despicable. It takes away from those owners and dogs who have put in thousands of hours in training.


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## JLC44 (Jun 18, 2013)

madametrogdor said:


> No, there is no certification. HOWEVER, a business does have the right to ask a person with a "service dog" to leave if their dog is causing a disruption of any sort.
> 
> All they can ask is if the dog is trained for a disability, and what the dog does to mitigate said disability.
> 
> ...


Emotional support animals are not the same as service dogs, they are not task trained, so they do not have public access. Also they are not restricted to just dogs (and mini-ponies in some cases).


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## madametrogdor (Mar 27, 2013)

Gwen_Dandridge said:


> But obviously, there is no valid training for these dogs, not like Guide Dogs for the Blind or other institutions that have a long and respectable history of training.
> 
> One woman I met at a party brought her 'service dog.' He was running around the house (not mine) far from her, off leash. I commented on the dog as his nose was right at the food. She said 'Oh yes, he was a service dog' for her. But I didn't see how he could be a service dog if he wasn't even in the same room.
> 
> Anyway, I do think some minimum certification both that the person needs this kind of help and that the dog is capable of behaving in public should be considered. I understand that I am in the minority.


Behavior is definitely an allowed factor. A person can be asked to take their dog outside or off the premises if the dog is making a disturbance, regardless of the disability.

I would say that although I don't think there should be a special certification, I would expect that any service dog would, at a minimum, have either the requisite training (like as a seeing-eye-dog) or be CGC certified. That would ensure that the dog is well-mannered.

In any case, most businesses will not even ask the two allowed questions out of fear of being sued, or lack of caring. 

It sucks that I have to leave my good and happy dog at home to go places when some lady whose dog is nothing more than a fashion accessory gets to tote her bedazzled pup everywhere because she has no problem lying about it, but that's the penalty for being honest.


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

Yes, from what I've read, emotional support animals can only be used on flights with a valid letter and for housing. That is all. 


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## madametrogdor (Mar 27, 2013)

JLC44 said:


> Emotional support animals are not the same as service dogs, they are not task trained, so they do not have public access. Also they are not restricted to just dogs (and mini-ponies in some cases).


You are correct. Sorry, I was presuming air travel. ESAs are allowed to travel via air in the same manner as service dogs, provided they have a letter from a doctor stating the need for the animal. They are also exempted from housing restrictions, just as service animals.


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## JLC44 (Jun 18, 2013)

madametrogdor said:


> Behavior is definitely an allowed factor. A person can be asked to take their dog outside or off the premises if the dog is making a disturbance, regardless of the disability.
> 
> I would say that although I don't think there should be a special certification, I would expect that any service dog would, at a minimum, have either the requisite training (like as a seeing-eye-dog) or be CGC certified. That would ensure that the dog is well-mannered.
> 
> ...



You hit my biggest reason against certification, it wouldn't help. If businesses don't ask what they should now then it's a them problem, not a service dog problem. 

I have looked over but am not very familiar with the CGC test, but I have heard and read that for service dogs the ADI public access test is a better gauge. It is the test the organization we got Camaro from uses. Not required by law but if a dog can not do it then it should be asked to leave (though businesses don't do this when they should either). Assistance Dogs International : Public Access Test


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## JLC44 (Jun 18, 2013)

madametrogdor said:


> You are correct. Sorry, I was presuming air travel. ESAs are allowed to travel via air in the same manner as service dogs, provided they have a letter from a doctor stating the need for the animal. They are also exempted from housing restrictions, just as service animals.



Yes in both of those cases you are right. It is important to note that the ADA does not apply to either of those, or to federal buildings, as those were all covered under acts in place before the ADA. Air Carrier Access Act, Housing and Urban Development Act, and Rehab Act. So there are different rights/responsibilities for both gatekeepers and service dog handlers. Annoys me when reading articles that quote ADA when it isn't the applicable law.


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

JLC44 said:


> You hit my biggest reason against certification, it wouldn't help. If businesses don't ask what they should now then it's a them problem, not a service dog problem.
> 
> I have looked over but am not very familiar with the CGC test, but I have heard and read that for service dogs the ADI public access test is a better gauge. It is the test the organization we got Camaro from uses. Not required by law but if a dog can not do it then it should be asked to leave (though businesses don't do this when they should either). Assistance Dogs International : Public Access Test


But is the test required? I can see that this is a very complicated issue. I guess I would like to see a visible tag on the animal that indicates some level of competence/necessity, so that this designation is not abused.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Many people with legitimate service dogs, including me, have registered their dogs with this site. Technically, it is completely pointless. BUT there are so many people who are unfamiliar with the law, and so dogs are registered through this site for those clueless business owners who think that registration makes a difference. It's the same reason so many people get their dogs ID tags. Service dogs are not required to have one, and anyone can buy/make something, but it makes life a lot easier for people to just flash an ID that shows a dog is registered with a service dog organization than to stand there arguing for allowance.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

_Gwen,_ I agree with you that this is an area that needs some work. There seems to be a lot of confusion among the general public about the differences between service dogs, emotional support dogs, and therapy dogs and what the access rights of each are.

It seems to me that if service dogs are going to be granted general access to stores, restaurants, etc. they should be required to demonstrate a minimum level of obedience and socialization by passing a test like CGC given by a authorized organization. The current rules or lack thereof enable anyone who wants to claim their dog is a service dog to put a scarf or tag on them and register them with something like the thing you posted without doing any training whatsoever.

The fact that more businesses do not question service dogs may be the result of the confusion about what very limited questions may be asked of people with disabilities and their service dogs without violating the law. In the long run, I think people with disabilities would be best served by regulations which limit the designation "service dog" to one which is certifiably trained and socialized.


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## Lennap (Jul 9, 2010)

I have a certified service dog, and am fortunate that NYC actually issues a service dog tag for dogs that meet the criteria. To qualify you/your dog must pass a much more stringent version of canine good citizenship, plus demonstrate the ability to help you with your disability.

I worked with a physical therapist to train Remy on how to provide assistance when I need it and I trained him to the best of my abili on the rest.

When I felt he was ready I needed a letter from my doctor advising what assistance Remy needed to provide and the. We were tested by a trainer who had NYC acceptable certification.

The funny thing is that I have the tags and patches that anyone can buy off the Internet and that is all anyone wants to see as proof. I try to explain that the NYC tag is the more meaningful, but as long as they have covered their butts, they really don't care.

One other point of note, a service dog is technically not allowed to also be a therapy dog.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

_Lennap_, the NYC certification sounds like it makes a lot of sense. In NYC are service dogs_ required_ to have that certification to have access to restaurants etc.?

_"One other point of note, a service dog is technically not allowed to also be a therapy dog."
_Whose rule is this? I understand that generally a service dog is supposed to be focused on it's person and it's job but have never heard that being a service dog would preclude a dog from doing therapy work.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

That's a rule specific to TDI. They do not allow service dogs to act as therapy dogs, but other organizations do.


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## JLC44 (Jun 18, 2013)

TheZ's said:


> _Lennap_, the NYC certification sounds like it makes a lot of sense. In NYC are service dogs_ required_ to have that certification to have access to restaurants etc.?
> 
> _"One other point of note, a service dog is technically not allowed to also be a therapy dog."
> _Whose rule is this? I understand that generally a service dog is supposed to be focused on it's person and it's job but have never heard that being a service dog would preclude a dog from doing therapy work.


No the NYC certification is not required, it is available but optional. It is illegal to make it required for access, states can not restrict federal rights. Now the state can grant further protection, such as some states that make it a crime to harass, distract, injure, or kill a service dogs and to be covered under that law certification could be required. 

But what about visitors, someone is going for a quick trip but first they have to take time out to schedule and go get this certification? But the main point (based on Lennap's comments) is that no the NYC certification is not working. It does nothing to prevent people from faking a service dog. 


Lennap said:


> The funny thing is that I have the tags and patches that anyone can buy off the Internet and that is all anyone wants to see as proof. I try to explain that the NYC tag is the more meaningful, but as long as they have covered their butts, they really don't care.


Businesses don't know or don't care about their rights, certification is meaningless. If a bar doesn't card and allows underage people to drink should we all have to go get a special tattoo at a certified place to verify we are over 21 to get into a bar??


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

Lennap said:


> I have a certified service dog, and am fortunate that NYC actually issues a service dog tag for dogs that meet the criteria. To qualify you/your dog must pass a much more stringent version of canine good citizenship, plus demonstrate the ability to help you with your disability.
> 
> I worked with a physical therapist to train Remy on how to provide assistance when I need it and I trained him to the best of my abili on the rest.
> 
> ...


Now this sounds sensible!


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## BajaOklahoma (Sep 27, 2009)

We have a student coming to school this Fall who is possibly bringing her service dog.
She is diabetic and the parents are training the dog to recognize high and low blood sugars. When I met with the mother in May, she stated that she needs to work on socializing the dog, who is an 8 months old lab.
We have a student in that grade level who is allergic to dogs.
We have a student in that grade level who, for religious reasons, views dogs as unclean.
We have other students in the building who are afraid of large dogs.

It's not certain the student, a 10 year old who has never been in public school, will bring the dog. We have to figure out where she can take the dog to relieve itself, what to do about lunch..... and many things that I haven't thought of.

If you have any thoughts or suggestions, please PM me. I don't want to hijack the thread, but I want to do the right thing.


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

BajaOklahoma said:


> We have a student coming to school this Fall who is possibly bringing her service dog.
> She is diabetic and the parents are training the dog to recognize high and low blood sugars. When I met with the mother in May, she stated that she needs to work on socializing the dog, who is an 8 months old lab.
> We have a student in that grade level who is allergic to dogs.
> We have a student in that grade level who, for religious reasons, views dogs as unclean.
> ...


For me, it just seems that the service dog issue has moved a little too fast and that there needs to be some thought and standard cross country regulations that are fair. Yes, companies are not asking to see proof of anything. They are too afraid of lawsuits.

I believe that dogs can and should be helping people, absolutely!!! But I think there needs to be some more thought into what that entails. But, that is just me.

Others are entitled to their opinions and many of you have much more experience with this than I do.


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

BajaOklahoma said:


> We have a student coming to school this Fall who is possibly bringing her service dog.
> She is diabetic and the parents are training the dog to recognize high and low blood sugars. When I met with the mother in May, she stated that she needs to work on socializing the dog, who is an 8 months old lab.
> We have a student in that grade level who is allergic to dogs.
> We have a student in that grade level who, for religious reasons, views dogs as unclean.
> ...


I would not want to be in the shoes of making this decisions. Shoot, putting an eight month old dog that needs socialization in with young kids!


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## JLC44 (Jun 18, 2013)

Gwen_Dandridge said:


> But is the test required? I can see that this is a very complicated issue. I guess I would like to see a visible tag on the animal that indicates some level of competence/necessity, so that this designation is not abused.


No it is not required because it is doing most of those things daily when in businesses. If it fails to act appropriately it *should* be asked to leave. Many businesses fail to do this. Maybe the businesses are the ones that need to show the competency. 

TheZ's I would like to respond to yours point by point so my comments are in red.


TheZ's said:


> _Gwen,_ I agree with you that this is an area that needs some work. There seems to be a lot of confusion among the general public about the differences between service dogs, emotional support dogs, and therapy dogs and what the access rights of each are. The law just got reworked, the DoJ asked for input from businesses, SD owners, trainers, general public, etc. Most SD teams are more than happy to educate and answer respectful questions most of the time. The confusion is self inflicted, the answers are easy to find, most just don't care.
> 
> It seems to me that if service dogs are going to be granted general access to stores, restaurants, etc. they should be required to demonstrate a minimum level of obedience and socialization by passing a test like CGC given by a authorized organization. Dogs are required to demonstrate obedience and socialization, every second they are in a place that requires access, whether they passed a test, have a certificate, no matter what if it fails a business *should*have the dog removed. The current rules or lack thereof enable anyone who wants to claim their dog is a service dog to put a scarf or tag on them and register them with something like the thing you posted without doing any training whatsoever. The current rules don't enable it, businesses do.
> 
> The fact that more businesses do not question service dogs may be the result of the confusion about what very limited questions may be asked of people with disabilities and their service dogs without violating the law. There is no confusion it is apathy. I posted link to the ADA business brief in post #9 it is very clear on the rights and responsibility of businesses. In the long run, I think people with disabilities would be best served by regulations which limit the designation "service dog" to one which is certifiably trained and socialized. The regulations defining what qualifies as a service dog are very specific. Why should the disabled have to jump through additional hoops that serve no purpose


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

As to bringing the dog to school, the problem is at what point does a dog go from "service dog in training" to an actual service dog? There isn't an exact answer for this. At 8 months old, the dog is likely very reliable at its trained task of alerting. But how reliable is its general public access training? That of course is an individual dog thing, not an across the board defining age when a dog is truly ready for full time service dog duty.


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

I think this is an important topic or I wouldn't have brought it up, and certainly one that elicits strong feeling from many people, as it should. Being considerate of people who will be safer with a trained dog by their side is a HUGELY important issue. 

The questions for me have already been stated.

Thanks to all for politely and considerately discussing this.


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## JLC44 (Jun 18, 2013)

Gwen_Dandridge said:


> For me, it just seems that the service dog issue has moved a little too fast and that there needs to be some thought and standard cross country regulations that are fair. Yes, companies are not asking to see proof of anything. They are too afraid of lawsuits.
> 
> I believe that dogs can and should be helping people, absolutely!!! But I think there needs to be some more thought into what that entails. But, that is just me.
> 
> Others are entitled to their opinions and many of you have much more experience with this than I do.


I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. The ADA is 23 years old, ACAA is 27 years old. The ADA was reworked in 2010 greatly restricting what a service animal is from before. Companies *can't* ask to see proof of anything, they can (but don't) ask questions. They choose to not exercise their right so why make it harder for a disabled person to exercise theirs. 

Yes lawsuits are a fear, but no matter what certification is in place it would still be a fear, so what would change except for the disabled. If a business allows in a pet because they don't ask and that pet attacks a child or service dog they can be sued. (edit to add: provided it is illegal to allow pets not just company policy.)

I have only tried to show why certification wouldn't help. Implementing it opens up a very large can of problems and issues that has no easy solutions. This is why the DoJ choose to leave the law as it was.


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## Lennap (Jul 9, 2010)

Loisiana said:


> As to bringing the dog to school, the problem is at what point does a dog go from "service dog in training" to an actual service dog? There isn't an exact answer for this. At 8 months old, the dog is likely very reliable at its trained task of alerting. But how reliable is its general public access training? That of course is an individual dog thing, not an across the board defining age when a dog is truly ready for full time service dog duty.


 
I agree with this and find the question very interesting. I have been asked to raise a service puppy - specifically a dog bred for service. The protocol of the three organizations I know is that for the first year the puppy is a puppy, typically being fostered by a family that will make sure they are house broken, exposed to as many different things as possible, and as well behaved as possible. After the first year the organization takes the dog back and begins the "service" portion of their training.

I think 8 months is a bit young to expect a dog to be bomb proof in public all day. But that is just my personal opinion.


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## JLC44 (Jun 18, 2013)

Lennap said:


> I agree with this and find the question very interesting. I have been asked to raise a service puppy - specifically a dog bred for service. The protocol of the three organizations I know is that for the first year the puppy is a puppy, typically being fostered by a family that will make sure they are house broken, exposed to as many different things as possible, and as well behaved as possible. After the first year the organization takes the dog back and begins the "service" portion of their training.
> 
> I think 8 months is a bit young to expect a dog to be bomb proof in public all day. But that is just my personal opinion.


I may be wrong but from what he said it was an 8 month puppy in May when met with parent, so august when classes start it will be 11 months, which would make more sense.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

*Don't fall for scam*

From Surf Dog Ricochet's FB page-

https://www.facebook.com/#!/SurfDogRicochet?hc_location=stream



Please don't fall for advertisements like this. Nobody who is a true service dog trainer or organization would advertise that you can take your dog anywhere if you pay them a registration fee. They are more concerned with training the dog t...o help you mitigate your disability. Not give you a free pass to take your pet dog everywhere. This company is misleading people, and making money off them. Real service dogs do NOT need to be certified or registered. And, just because someone registers their dog with this company does NOT make them a service dog. For a company to accept payment & then send a person a supposed registration without ever seeing the dog is a big RED FLAG. How can anyone certify or register a dog they've never seen or given the public access test to. Save your money, and find a real service dog trainer that can help you owner train, or apply to a bonified service dog organization to get a dog. I know people who are registered with this company, even though their dog isn't a real service dog. All I can say is shame on them. Think about all the people that really need service dogs & how you're doing a dis-service to them by impersonating a service dog. If you want to learn more about the differences between pet dogs, therapy dogs, emotional support dogs & service dogs, here's a link to a blog I wrote a while ago http://www.surfdogricochet.com/1/post/2013/08/is-that-a-service-dog-in-the-window.htmlSee More


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