# What I have learned in 2.5 months! What would I change? Aggression, biting, puppyness



## NGolden (Sep 29, 2015)

It's long but maybe it will give some good pointers.

I have joined this forum because we encounter many issues with our puppy. Today after 2.5 months that she is with us I believe many of those situations could have been avoided. I am starting to believe to people who are saying no you don't have an aggressive but a puppy. But I also think we made mistake and it turn really bad for us and we caused our puppy to be aggressive and bite when she shouldn't.

So after we had personal trainer helping us and puppy classes and lots of reading, I came to conclusion "IT'S NOT THE DOG IT'S US".

I want to share this story because it will maybe help some other owners and ladies who sometimes cry to their husbands because their dog is just impossible and every day you wish you don't have it.

So lets start:
First thing what I think it's very important that not every bad thing is my puppys fault but some of my own. And realizing that we going to start healing process and work more on good things to eliminate bad things.

FOOD
When I joined this forum it's all started because I labelled my dog "FOOD AGGRESSIVE". We got our dog from some backyard breeder. I know it's a bad thing but there was an add and she was cute and not so expensive as other dogs and there you go. We got a puppy. Did they all eat from the same bowl and she had to fight for food. Probably. So she came home we gave her food and you all all over you cute puppy. Eventually maybe 2,3 days of that she growled at us. AND WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING. We missed the cue. We were taken by surprise that such a little puppy would do that. But we didn't change anything, eventually we started hand feeding her because she was eating like crazy. It seemed she got better but my husband and I were bitten by her. After maybe a month of having her we called personal trainer and he showed us how to work with her.

WHAT WE DID WRONG! The second she growled at us that should be a cue for us that she doesn't trust us and she thinks we are trying to take her food away and not giving her.

WHAT WE SHOULD DO! Start playing games with her bowl start showing her that food is coming from us, and we don't take it away (which maybe sometimes we did unintentionally). Teaching her to stay and wait for food, so we don't have to struggle with there while we are trying to add some food in the bowl. Start dropping those delicious pieces of chicken when we pass by.

RAWHIDE (HIGH VALUE TREAT) 
Other thing that we have missed and we are more aware of it now. At one point we gave her a rawhide to chew on it. She was so cute chew on it and when she got tired she was trying to hide it in our backyard. We were just looking at her thinking a look cute puppy she's trying to hide her rawhide.

WHAT WE DID WRONG! That was a cue that she doesn't trust us and she's trying to hide things that she value from us.

WHAT WE SHOULD DO! Again make her feel safe and play games so she trust us and stops hiding food or any items that have value for her.

TAKING FOOD AND GARBAGE FROM HER MOUTH
Having a puppy that puts everything in her mouth it's a real challenge. 

WHAT WE DID WRONG! We were taking everything by opening her mouth and taking it out. Grabbing her, chasing her, taking "food" from her (rawhide). And what she learned from that? To be fast and swallow what ever she gets in her mouth and be aggressive about it and defend it. We also did that mistake with grass she was eating in backyard. Now her tail is down like she's guarding it because we took her from there and she didn't like it.

WHAT WE SHOULD DO! We were careful about this situations but it always surprises me how much garbage she can find, but in those situations we should have be more careful. We shouldn't give her rawhide (we stopped as soon as we saw the problem). Stop pulling everything out of her mouth, sometimes just give her to eat something if it's not that bad for her. And be unpredictable sometimes take something sometimes no, sometimes we should just leave her to eat that grass or find something more interesting for her to do. So that she doesn't run away and tries to swallow what she have. And start trading for treats or playing a game when she drops it to give her love, love, love.

TAKING HER TO CRATE
One of things we were recommend and we read about is take dog to crate when it's biting or doing something that it shouldn't. But at some point we were overusing it and it didn't took too long for her to realize, PICKING UP = GOING TO CRATE. And picking up for her now it means a bad thing which resulted with her wanting to bit me.

WHAT WE DID WRONG! Mostly we were picking her up when she did something bad for time off. We always left her there for few seconds and let her out but it was enough to have a bad feeling for her. Or in the evening when she fall asleep on the floor so we had to put her in crate to sleep.

WHAT WE SHOULD DO! In all that we forgot to play positive games both with crate and picking up. So that she knows that picking up is not always a bad thing or that she goes to her crate by herself. Now at this point I can't just pick her up because she will show her teeth and she will be ready to bite. We are playing games and I am giving her treats and slowly doing the motion of picking her up so she gets used to it again.

PUPPY CLASS
I don't know if this is for every puppy or I should say a puppy owner. We are still doing it so I will be smarter after that's over. But for now my experience is so so. I personally have learned things which are helping me. But bringing a puppy to a class, a puppy who is in fear faze it's a nightmare. 


WHAT WE DID WRONG! First class was a disaster because she was horrible and wanted to bite (not nipping but scary bite) and she was barking like there is no tomorrow. Second class was little bit better but again I've learned from my mistakes. Class is an hour long and there is so much stimulation and first time I didn't give her a brake, second time somewhere in the middle she went out for some fresh air (I believe that helped a little bit). Also first time I didn't have water close by but I had to take her to public water bowl that was further away. Next time I had water so she can chill a little bit and refresh.

WHAT WE SHOULD DO! First of all I think if your heart says no and you don't feel like something you are doing to you puppy is right for you, don't do it. One person at the class suggested to hold her mouth when she wants to bite or step on her leash close to her head so she can't move at all just lay down when she's done with being wild. I did those things and it backfired. She went even more wild and manage to touch my skin in her rage (she left a little mark but I believe if she wanted she could make it even worse). I wish I didn't listen to that person and if necessary that we stayed only half an hour and left before she had to behave like that. I believe that she's barking out of fear and instead of making her feel safe I was telling her to be quiet and hold her collar to look at me to be quiet (as also one of the trainer there suggested). And I guess may people her knows dogs don't like their collar to be touched (as I've learned). So again I believe first class and all that could have been prevented. We are working with different trainers and I must say although they work at the same place their approach is different and maybe some things work for other dogs but they don't work for mine. We will continue classes since it is experience and we learn from it, but I will put my dog well being in first place and then what others say. I would rather be kicked out of class then provoke my puppy to bite again. As we people dogs are individuals too and you have to find a good match from your trainer and from your approach. 

Many of this thing could have been avoided and we could have a better relationship with our puppy than we have now. I am with her all the time and do most work around her so when bad things happen I really puts me down. And all the time I was blaming her for all bad things not realizing that it was provoked by me or other family members. Now we have to work backwards and repair our relationship and prevent other incidents to happen. We have to work more than double now for that since we didn't stopped it on time. We are changing our approach and the way we see her. 
I am sure this is far from over and we will have many days of frustration and tears. But I really hope she will become a good dog she can be and we will be the owners that give her no reason to be afraid of us or other things when we are around her.
I hope I will be able to edit this post with time and add more positive experience with my puppy. Because even though I do understand problems we have, me and my family are ready to work on them, doesn't mean we will be able to do it right away and be successful from the first try. For now I still wake up every day wishing we don't have a dog, but I hope that will change and one day I will be able to say that she is the best thing that happened to us. Not to get me wrong I love her a lot, but I am looking forward to a day when I will wake up and not think oh we have to to for a walk, I hope there will not be a lot of people dogs, distractions or that she will not start jumping on me and biting me. When we do a nice hour and half long walk I will be very happy person and probably very tired. 

I hope this will help some of you desperate people out there.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

None of us are perfect, we try to do the very best we can, but we often make mistakes and sometimes we learn along the way. I think that's also true when you are parents of human children.

Give yourself credit for knowing you needed help, getting the help and working with your pup so she can be the girl she's meant to be. 

Don't be so hard on yourself for getting a pup from perhaps not the most ideal situation either. I think many of us have gotten dogs that way. I got my Bridge boy from a family that wanted their girl to have ONE litter of pups. I was told he was from a BYB, you can imagine my shock, I'd never heard this terminology before let alone knew what it meant. Since joining this forum I have learned so much about Breeders, their breeding programs and practices, the COE, clearances, etc. 

I was lucky, my Bridge boy lived to be 15.5, he was healthy with no major health issues or behavioral issues. Did I make mistakes along the way, of course I did. It was a learning experience for all of us. He was a great dog, he was our first Golden and because of him I'll always have at least one Golden.

Thank you for sharing your experience.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

WOW!!! What an amazing post! Thank you!! It is not easy to look at ourselves and pay close attention to the mistakes we make, we all make them, whether we like to admit it or not. Key in process is that we learn from them, and it appears that you have learned a lot, in just 2 1/2 months. When we stop 'blaming the dog' and look at our own behavior, what we may be doing that is inciting the dog to 'misbehave' /behave inappropriately (in our eyes), and begin to ask the question of 'How can I help my dog become the dog I know she/he can be?' and begin to understand our role, we have taken the first step on an amazing journey to a much better relationship with our dog. 
It is not always easy, it is a lot of work, but it is so rewarding, hold onto hope, believe that it can be better, it will be better, and the difficulties you are encountering right now, will be a faint memory. Focus on what you and she are getting 'right,' no matter how small it may seem, 'Did she sit when you asked her to?' Wait for her dinner? Trade her toy for a yummy treat? those things are celebration 'worthy'!!! Focus on the 'good stuff', pay attention to what she is doing, anytime, every time she does something you like, offer her a yummy treat, some warm praise, (increasing the chances that she will repeat that 'good' behavior - dogs repeat behaviors that are rewarding for them) let her know how amazing she is, that she got it 'right'. 
Be easy on yourself, be kind to yourself, you have gotten off to a bit of a rough start, many of us do, but you have taken the first steps in the right direction, I truly hope this all works out well for you.


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## Marcus (Aug 24, 2014)

*VOTE 1 Sticky this post*


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## Harleysmum (Aug 19, 2014)

You beat me to it Marcus. Great Post!


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Your puppy is very lucky to have ended up with a family that cares enough to work so hard with her. A Golden Retriever puppy can be very trying for even the most experienced dog people. There were things you did wrong, but there were also things you did right. You all were so smart to invest in private lessons with a good trainer and get advice early on before your dog got bigger and older and was able to spend more months practicing undesirable behavior.

Thank you for taking time to share what you learned here. It is a wonderful thing to pass along your newly acquired knowledge and if even one puppy family will read and learn from your experience, it is making a difference in someone's life. You may even save a puppy from ending up in a shelter or rescue if you can teach other people before their dog is out of control. Hang in there, you WILL get through this and I give you a lot of credit for taking responsibility and working hard to get things right with your puppy. Bless you.


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## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

Thank you for this post. I totally agree with your point about following your instinct with Puppy class. I hated ours, I was not comfortable with the methods nor the teachers. Yet I kept going because I thought "that was what was expected of me as a new puppy owner". After a month I finally had enough and invested in a personal one to one trainer. Buddy was instantly more relaxed and cooperative and so was I!


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## BeehiveGolden (Oct 4, 2015)

Wow, what a post. Your commitment to this puppy is commendable. Your hard work and dedication will pay off. She may never be a happy go lucky social butterfly but things will definitely get better. I have no doubt she'll give you all she has to offer. Did you meet her parents? Some of this could be genetic. 

I once rescued a tiny kitten from a feral colony in a very tough neighborhood. He was never a friendly cat. Over his lifetime he bit every member of my family and truly just wanted to be left alone. I think the toughness/survival instinct was too ingrained. 

Thank you for putting yourself out there. Others will benefit from your candor.


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## NGolden (Sep 29, 2015)

Well. We have learned one more thing. She is scared of everything and when I say everything I mean everything. I feel so bad and I have a feeling we disappointed our dog. 

We will give it a try, we missed socialized her properly. Part of that is due to her foot injury, she wasn't able to walk, so for two weeks we were just in our backyard. 

I don't know if she will be ever be able to go for a walk or camping what we were hoping to do with her. We are going to try for next few months and if I will not be able to take care of her, we will have to think about some other solutions. 

I think she would be amazing farm dog, where there are not to many people or other distractions, but she would able to roam free. I feel so sad and I wish we and me personally did so many things better.

We went to puppy class again. I believe she will not be going again. Everytime that place only makes it worse. Since we have been there, she follows me wherever I go. For example she's sleeping next to my feet and I to to washroom and when I get out she was at the door waiting. I go back to sit and she comes close to me. Doesn't matter that other people are in room with her.

I almost gave up on our morning walks because it is so stressful for me, barking, biting, pulling. But I must be even worse for her. So we are trying to go for at least one walk per day. I have noticed when she scared (she barks at dogs, people) she comes running to me, then she jumps on me and tries to bite me. Which is not the best way to express feelings, it's painful for me.

We are still working so hard every day. And mostly when I say we I mean me, since I am at home all day with her. And I believe that could be problem one day, when I eventually start working.

I have read on this forum how one family had to put their golden down since he was so cared of everything and the way he showed it was barking and biting/attacking. 

I wish things would get better but I don't know what to think. Any suggestions, advice would be helpful. 

Btw, we have guests coming in a week. What would be best way to approach that situation? Usually with people she will bark but once someone put hands on her, she's fine, playing, licking, getting on her back. But I don't know how she will behave and I am already worried.


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## DoreenB (Sep 19, 2014)

NGolden said:


> Well. We have learned one more thing. She is scared of everything and when I say everything I mean everything. I feel so bad and I have a feeling we disappointed our dog.
> 
> We will give it a try, we missed socialized her properly. Part of that is due to her foot injury, she wasn't able to walk, so for two weeks we were just in our backyard.
> 
> ...


I'm assuming you got the dog as an 8 week old pup. If this is so, she's about four months old??? Don't be so hard on yourself or your dog. She's a baby and requires baby steps. Our seven month old is still a nightmare on walks.
One thing she isn't afraid of is you....and that is in your favor. Her "clingyness" can be affection as well as fear. As far as your guests go, crate or pen her when they arrive. Introduce them to her one at a time.
Go back to square one on the walks. Let her relieve herself and bring her back in..each time go a little further. I would reward her for every walk so it has a more positive connotation.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

NGolden - I am so sorry you are having such a tough time with your pup. At this point in time she needs you to keep her world 'small', if walks scare her, keep her at home, (for now). Take the time to work with her on basic skills, repeat and reward, her for all those things she does 'right'. Focus on building her confidence, introduce her to different objects, a box, a paper bag, a plastic bag, a crumpled newspaper, anything, everything that may be 'new' to her, if she is showing fear or hesitation with any of the objects, try laying a trail of treats leading up to it, and more on or around it. Step back, and give her the time and space to explore, investigate it, to discover for herself, that 'whatever' it is, is not a threat to her, encourage her, give her lots of praise for even one step in the direction of the object. Help her conquer obstacles, perhaps climbing over, going under, or around a chair, perhaps walking across a piece of newspaper, or a plastic tarp, piece of cardboard. The more 'successes' she can experience, the more confident she can become.

Consider using 'clicker training' when working with her. (If she is afraid of the sound of the clicker, try muffling it by keeping it in your pocket when you click, or try something 'quieter' like a retractable pen. You can also use a marker word such as 'yes' in place of the clicker) The clicker/yes tells her that she got it right and a reward is coming. 'Condition' her to the clicker, teach what it means to her, by doing a few sessions of simply 'clicking'/yes and following it with a treat, you can even use part of her meal for this. You will know she understands when she hears the 'click'/yes and looks to you in anticipation of the treat. When she has 'got it', click and treat for any behaviors you like, that she offers you, could be eye contact, laying quietly, chewing on an appropriate toy, walking beside you, anything at all, no matter how small it seems to you. Confidence is built over time, like building a 'brick wall' each success adds another 'brick', and makes the 'wall' stronger, and makes it easier to 'succeed' next time.

I have walked in your shoes, brought home a terrified pup, who had not been socialized to the 'real' world, born and raised in an outside pen, no experience with living in a house and all that it entailed, under socialized (yes, that was my fault) she was literally, like your pup, afraid of 'everything', anything 'new', out of place scared her. It took some time, careful exposure to 'new' things in her life, creating positive associations with those things she was afraid of, and focusing on confidence building, finding ways to help her succeed through reward based training she has become a happy confident dog, who, though at times still spooks at the strange and unusual, is all that I hoped she could be, she just needed a little more help from me.


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

One thing you might want to consider too, besides the awesome advice of the more experienced members here is to maybe look into "Dealing with the Boogeyman" class that starts in December. While it states that it's for competition dogs, it's also for pet dogs. We plan to take it with Noah at the Bronze level, because he can be reactive in certain situations, and we want to help him build his confidence and conquer his fears. 

The nice thing about the Fenzi classes is that you are essentially "home schooling" your dog, at your own pace. You have access to the lecture notes for up to a year, and longer if you decide to enroll in other classes in later months (access to your library of lecture notes for a year after your most recent class). And you can also save them to your computer for even longer. 

We're taking four classes in the current session and I have 3 picked out for December. I love that most all of the classes start in my living room and slowly build to taking out in the world - at your dog's pace. 

Fenzi Dog Sports Academy - BH110: Dealing with the Bogeyman - Helping Fearful and Reactive Competition Dogs


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## NGolden (Sep 29, 2015)

Do you guys think it's a good idea to take her to a puppy daycare? If yes, should we leave her there all day? Or maybe it's better to leave her 2,3 hours and then pick her up?


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## NGolden (Sep 29, 2015)

Charliethree said:


> NGolden - Focus on building her confidence, introduce her to different objects, a box, a paper bag, a plastic bag, a crumpled newspaper, anything, everything that may be 'new' to her, if she is showing fear or hesitation with any of the objects, try laying a trail of treats leading up to it, and more on or around it.


We have stared doing just that. And I can't believe how we didn't notice that before. I've put some pots for plants in the backyard and when she got out she was barking at it since it was a new thing she was scared of. So now every day we find a new object and place it outside or in house so she has opportunity to sniff and be safe. 

Other think which is my fault I think because before she got all of her shots I was always pulling her away from other dogs and she learned that's a bad thing. So now I am trying to have a loose leash and if she wants she can sniff a dog. But usually she barks and runs towards a dog and then runs back. So other dog starts going towards her. I believe she is little bit different when she goes with other people for a walk. Because they behave different.


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## NGolden (Sep 29, 2015)

Charliethree said:


> NGolden -
> 
> Consider using 'clicker training' when working with her. (If she is afraid of the sound of the clicker, try muffling it by keeping it in your pocket when you click, or try something 'quieter' like a retractable pen. You can also use a marker word such as 'yes' in place of the clicker) The clicker/yes tells her that she got it right and a reward is coming. 'Condition' her to the clicker, teach what it means to her, by doing a few sessions of simply 'clicking'/yes and following it with a treat, you can even use part of her meal for this. You will know she understands when she hears the 'click'/yes and looks to you in anticipation of the treat. When she has 'got it', click and treat for any behaviors you like, that she offers you, could be eye contact, laying quietly, chewing on an appropriate toy, walking beside you, anything at all, no matter how small it seems to you. Confidence is built over time, like building a 'brick wall' each success adds another 'brick', and makes the 'wall' stronger, and makes it easier to 'succeed' next time.


We are using word yes and she is amazing with it when in the house. Even our trainer said that it's really surprising to see how she looks at us and focus when we are doing some commands in the house. Outside if there is some distraction it becomes hard for her to focus but not impossible. 
Even my family sometimes comes home and says wow I can't believe you have taught her something that fast.

And one thing I have noticed is when she gets scared, she will bark and then run to mostly me and jump on me and bite. I think sometimes she does it as a play but I think that lots of time she does it when she is scared. So if she would stop doing that it would be amazing because then she bites hard otherwise she will bite little bit but she got so much better with those puppy bites that I almost forget sometimes about it.


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## NGolden (Sep 29, 2015)

One more question. We know a guy how has two older dog. One is very jumpy and has not teeth and he is small an loud. The other one is big, shy (rescued) and big. Should we try take her for a play date with them. She met the small one one the leash and it was so so, first time, little bit scared but nothing to bad. We were thinking to take her to his backyard so she can be off leash and maybe it would help her to look at it as play. This two dog have other dogs coming to them for a play. How can we make this into good experience so later on she can come and play with them to burn some energy?


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## NGolden (Sep 29, 2015)

UPDATE

My puppy still doesn't like to be picked up around the house or in house she growls and snaps but less. If we do it to get her in or out of the car she's ok with it. So today when my husband picked her up and she growled we had her food bowl with food ready and he took her there, so that picking up starts to be a good thing. 

We have tried to expose her to new things and she seems terrified, so we are still working on it. But I think we are making progress. For example before she would bark when someone rings door bell or opens garage door and some other sounds in the house. So everyone of us would go out ring the bell get in and give her a treat. So after few days she stopped barking at some of the sounds and almost ignores some of them. Also we are using help from Youtube. So we play her different sounds, birds, rain, thunderstorms and dogs. So on some of them she just listen and goes around the house trying to find out where are then coming from and sometimes she would bark. But everyday it's something new.

Other thing we have learned and we didn't know. Is LOSE LEASH. So when she meets other dogs, people or sniffs things it important that leash is lose so that there is no tension and she is not stressed about it. Yesterday we have meet a dog on our walk. She didn't sniff him, but she didn't bark. So that was nice. But that was only one occasion we'll see what will happen next time. What I've learned her is that all the time we were focused on get your puppy to learn this, take you puppy to puppy class, train your puppy to do that, and we forgot to give her time to just be a puppy. Take her outside and let her sniff and explore, more often then we took her to teach her how to walk on a leash. 

CRATE. That mysterious and place that she didn't like very much in two days became almost best place ever. First two time she needed a push to get in but after that she got big treat and lots of love and excited voices. So after doing that for two days she is going in by herself and she learned what "Go in, or go to bed" means. No more picking her up to put her to bed or dragging her or luring her with treats. 

Also we are practising Leave it and Stay. Our trainer gave as a good suggestions to keep her on the leash when we do it. So for now what are we doing. When we give her food we put the bowl down and we say stay for her to wait and not to start eating right away. At first she would run to it, but because she was on a leash it's easier to stop her and no hands need it around her, when she would be stopped by leash she would look at us and we would say go. Now she stays and looks at us and when we say GO she goes and starts eating. We are doing this training with treats also. At first we were holding leash and say STAY before we would throw a treat. So that she knows what are we expecting from her. Slowly we start changing the routine and throw a way a treat with out saying stay first. She would run and go for it at first. Now sometimes she stops looks at us and goes for it when we let her. So slowly we are building her self control. Also coming closer to 5 months I think she started little less to grab everything outside and drops it faster (non food items), I really wonder how she will behave in few more weeks. 

Some things are so easy to change and it doesn't take long, just right approach. 

All of this give us hope, specially to me, but still every day there is a new challenge and worst thing for me is I still don't trust her and I can't relax when I am with her because I don't know if she will get in that crazy bad mood and start biting or when she will think we are trying to take something from her and she will growl and bite.


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