# Unusual housetraining issue - help, please!



## pepperthepup (May 12, 2017)

Hi, everyone! I’ve been lurking and reading here for the past few months (I think I’ve read a few hundred threads by now, if not more), but now I have a problem that I haven’t seen addressed anywhere else. This is going to be super long, but I have a speedy sum up at the end.

Our adorable puppy, Pepper, is now 14 weeks old, and has been living with us for a week now. He stayed with the breeder for an extra five weeks for training – primarily house and crate. However, the housetraining wasn’t as successful as we’d hoped, and now we have a large and unusual problem.

We live in a second story apartment, which is at least a 90 second walk away from the nearest patch of grass (and down two flights of stairs), which is why we wanted his housetraining to be complete before he came to live with us. We understood that we’d still be getting a tiny puppy with a tiny bladder and that he’d need to go out regularly. All we wanted was for him to be able to understand that outside is where you pee (and maybe also have a way to signal us that he needs to go).

Instead, Pepper came to us with no concept of outdoors or indoors or even not wanting to pee in his own play and living area. He just goes whenever and whenever with absolutely no warning at all. We’ve been taking him out every hour while he’s awake and after sleeping, playing, training, eating, drinking excessively, etc. For the first few days, he’d just look at us blankly when we got him onto the grass (no grass at the breeder’s – just dirt and plants), but he at least caught on quickly there. He now pees successfully every single time we take him out (and is rewarded lavishly with a big treat party and cheering – we get a lot of strange looks).

But! Back inside, he still just goes at any point without any warning. I can have just taken him out only 20 min before and he’ll be back inside playing with a toy and then he’ll just suddenly stand up and pee right next to it. When I stop him, he does stop and holds it while I leash him and walk him all the way down to the grass, so it’s not an issue of his bladder not being able to hold it. He just...feels like going, so he goes. It’s putting me into a state of constant hypervigilance, because he gives no warning at all and I’m extra worried whenever he wants to sniff around the apartment or his expen (which he’s also peed in multiple times). He’ll just be chilling out and go or he’ll be sniffing and pacing (which he loves to do anyway) and go. The only place he doesn’t do this is his crate, but we can’t keep him in there 24/7, because that’s unfair and cruel and no way for him to learn anyway.

We’ve recently tried putting his food into a treat ball and having him roll it around the expen to eat, so hopefully he won’t be as interested in peeing where his food is. We’re also installing potty bells tonight. But otherwise we’re at a total loss.

It’s very clear this is a psychological issue, not a physical one. He’s given more than ample opportunity to pee outside whenever he needs and he’s 14 weeks old, so he can hold it for a few minutes. He never ever has gone on the asphalt, dirt paths or sidewalks (which are all over our complex and he walks on the all the time). It’s just that we need to figure out how to teach him that you should pee ONLY outside and you SHOULD NOT pee inside. If he could learn that and also learn a way to let us know in any way that he wants to go (so then we could take him out) we wouldn’t have a problem. But I’m at a total loss here and desperate for help!

TL;DR: Our puppy doesn’t understand that you should only pee outside and not inside and we don’t know how to get it through to him

Thanks so much for any help you guys can give! I’ll attach pictures in the post after this one, because I still have to figure out how to do that but I want to get this posted as soon as possible.


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## pepperthepup (May 12, 2017)

Here are some pictures of Pepper at 10 weeks and 12 weeks. All the newer ones are on my phone.


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## usually lurking (Apr 21, 2017)

If it was me, I'd start from the very beginning with housetraining. Take him out every 15 min. When he pees outside, make a huge deal of it with effusive praise and give him a treat. If he goes inside, ignore what he's done, and take him out immediately. Reward if he goes again. Pick a word like "potty" and say it as he goes outside. Once he's reliable at 15 min intervals, and you make it a few days with no accidents, bump up the time to 20, then 30, etc. When you let him out of his crate, pick him up and carry him outside (if you can lift him). Don't give him an opportunity to screw up. 

Also, teach him how to tell you he has to go. Whenever he is next to the door you use to go out, take him out. He'll catch on quickly that if he stands there, he gets to go outside.

Lastly, he is only 15 weeks. I did 30 min intervals at that age to prevent accidents, and bumped up the time when I saw that he wasn't peeing every time that we went out.

Having said all of that, if he continues to have accidents when you are doing 15 min intervals, check in with your vet and make sure there isn't a medical issue.


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## usually lurking (Apr 21, 2017)

I should have added that it doesn't sound like you are at a total loss. You're doing a lot of the right things. I think, mostly, that your potty intervals are too long.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

First: I'm not sure why a breeder would even suggest it was possible for a pup to be fully house-trained by the age of 13 weeks. It isn't. One of the first things our training school tells new puppy owners is this: whatever you do or don't do, a dog will become reliably clean in the house somewhere between 5 and 6 months of age. I would say that in 90% of cases this is true.

Second: Dogs don't generalize well, and this is especially the case for young pups. In other words, what you teach them is context-related to a large extent. So your pup may have learned to ask for the door at your breeder's home, but that doesn't mean he'll do so at your home. This is because the concept of "door" is tied to your breeder's home, not to yours. You have to re-teach it from scratch.

So you have to start over. In terms of house-training, what you have on your hands is the equivalent of an 8-week-old puppy. He's going to have accidents until he figures it out, and that will take a certain period of time. Assuming that he had begun to understand house-training at your breeder's home - and I would question this - the process at your home should be faster. My pup peed in the house for about the first three weeks home, and started getting into the routine after that. He was consistent in asking for the door after about five weeks. Yours has only been home for a week, so you probably have at least a couple of weeks to go, and possibly more, before he understands the system.

Sadly, there are no short-cuts to this. You just have to live through it, keep teaching him, keep being patient, and it will eventually be ok. That's how it is with pups. You can't short-circuit the process. 

Good luck, and don't worry. What you have is a perfectly normal puppy. He'll be fine.

Since he's only one week into his house-training _in your home_, the fact that he will just squat and pee is perfectly normal. Just keep doing what you're doing, and he'll eventually stop. Watch him closely for signs. Learn to read him.


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## pepperthepup (May 12, 2017)

Okay, this is making me feel a little better about things!

To be fair to the breeder, she never promised complete housetraining (and we never asked her to). All we wanted were the building blocks - outside is a place for peeing and gets rewards; inside is not and does not, some understanding of a command word like, "go potty", possibly some way of signaling he needs to go - and a bigger bladder capacity (we didn't want to train with pads and saw no way to train a tiny eight week old puppy when we'd have to go down two flights of stairs and walk another thirty seconds). We got the bladder capacity at least! Which is good, because it gives us the time to take him outside. He's too big for me to carry now, and it wouldn't work if by the time I put on his leash and grabbed the bag of treats, he peed on the floor in the hall.

The problem with the door thing is that Pepper spends a lot of his non-cuddling and playing with us in an expen (which has a few toys and which he haaaaaaaaates), and so he often goes to the door and paws at it because he wants to be out with us, not outside (he also whines and barks and throws himself at the fencing and then collapses into a sulky nap). I'm worried that if we take him outside every single time he does that, we'll show him that all he needs to get freedom from the expen is a tantrum at the door. It's why we're going to try the potty bell. We're going to put one on the wall of the pen and one by the pet gate in the living room and have him ring with his paw each time we take him out. This starts tomorrow (because they haven't arrived yet).

We're also looking into trying a small daycare experience at a private person's home, where she has a very small pack of dogs, in hopes that they'll help model the right behavior for him. Standard daycare would be great for me and *my* nerves, but a really bad idea for housetraining, because they just go indoors.

I'll just keep taking him out every hour that he's awake and not in the crate and hope that that plus some combo of potty bells and/or the pack of dogs modeling behavior will help get it through to him.

I feel like Moody from Harry Potter, stalking him around our house and yelling (quietly in my head), "CONSTANT VIGILANCE!" :smile2:


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

It's not easy, that's for sure, and as others have said it sounds as if you are doing things right. Just keep taking him out. Also don't feed him within 4 hours of putting him to bed and take up his water 2 hours before bed. That should help a bit. Also after playing sessions you should take him out right away. Play seems to generate that pee response in puppies also. 
Pepper, by the way, is cuter than all get out


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## pepperthepup (May 12, 2017)

He's definitely adorable and basically pretty sweet, but we're having a lot of problems with dominance challenges (especially to me). He doesn't want to go out, he doesn't want to go down the stairs, he doesn't want to walk, he doesn't want to be in the expen, he REALLY doesn't want to be in the crate when it's not nighttime, etc. He's much better with my husband but there are still a lot of challenges, and constant treat bribery isn't doing anything. At this age, I can pick him up and move him (at least a bit) but those times are fast going to end. I think I need to have a trainer come and do some one on one stuff so I can see what I'm doing wrong and how to improve it.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

At 14 weeks old it is absolutely a problem with how small his bladder is, not physically being able to control it completely, and not having the mental control to know before hand that he needs to pee.

Taking him outside only once an hour is much too long in between potty breaks. At 14 weeks he should be taken out every 20 minutes, more often if he is having accidents sooner. 

Physical activity of any kind stimulates the bladder, so if he was laying down and stands up, he needs to pee, if runs across the room he needs to pee, etc.

Also, your infant puppy has not one single thought about dominance in his head. That is seriously outdated and wrong thinking. He is NOT trying to be dominant, that concept doesn't exist in a puppy's brain. He simply has not learned and has not been taught yet what you expect from him. Even if you have been working on things he is too young, and you flat have not had enough time with him, for him to understand what you expect or what you are asking him to do. Please stop thinking in terms of your puppy trying to be dominant.

The solution to the house training issue is more frequent trips outside, and patience, and the puppy's body growing and physically gaining the ability to control his bladder and hold it longer.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

You're alright. He will learn. This sounds exactly like Brix and I too was like, is this dog ever gonna figure it out!? And I was lazy. He was so good in the house not getting into stuff I gave him WAY too much freedom. He had way too many accidents that I didn't catch that he never could figure it out.
OK so I have to say when Brix was maybe a tiny bit older than your pup now I spent a weekend or maybe 3-4 days at my boyfriend's house which is VERY SMALL. And I was VERY PARANOID about the puppy going to the bathroom in his house. If I couldn't watch Brix like a hawk I put him in the crate in the car. If he even walked near the door I would take him out. Just like I should have been doing at my own house!!!!! Well guess what, Brix was TOTALLY HOUSETRAINED after being hypervigilant for those few days! To the point that he would walk to my back door at home and jump on the door to let me know he needed out! Smooth sailing ever since. 
You'll get there, don't despair


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## FosterGolden (Mar 10, 2014)

I second, third and fourth what everyone else has said, including the part about dominance. 14 week old puppies are not dominant. They are learning and, like children, they learn how to be with different people. Kids are different with their parents than their aunts, uncles or grandparents, just like dogs are different depending on who they are dealing with. As far as the housetraining, I agree that you need to treat him like a tiny puppy and watch him like a hawk and if he cannot be watched he needs to be crated. Go outside more; every ten minutes if you have to. He's a baby with a baby bladder and a baby brain. Just remember, it's temporary. The dog will live, god willing, to be 15 years old and dealing with potty training for six months is really nothing. Just wait until you hit adolescence; this will feel like a walk in the park!


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

It is entirely possible to house train from a second-floor apartment. I did it from a third-floor walk-up. 

I agree with everyone - back to square one. I'm not sure the time at the breeders has made any difference. Out every 30-60 minutes, and immediately after sleeping, eating, drinking, playing. You just have to carry your pup up and down the stairs - he won't pee on you. And carry him that last thirty seconds to the grass, too. If he walks, he will pee. I almost wish you HAD taken him at 8 weeks - they are far easier to carry up and down stairs when they are small! But not worth crying over spilt milk - just start over now. He'll get it.


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## pepperthepup (May 12, 2017)

Thank you guys for your extremely helpful answers. I was so overwhelmed by everything that I really needed to reframe my thinking (ie: we're not failing at housetraining and he's not engaging in dominance battles because he's only a tiny puppy). I have health issues and have been dealing with some horrible mix of food poisoning and the stomach flu all week (what a great first week to have a puppy!) and the exhaustion just overloaded me.

The good thing is, I realized we've maybe been expecting way too much too fast. He's only had one accident in the house since the first day we brought him home and figured out we had a problem! We've hugely stepped up the amount of times we've been taking him out and we're focusing on our successes instead of our failures. Last week, Pepper didn't even know he should be peeing on grass at all. Now he goes *immediately* as soon as we bring him to the patch of grass.

Instead of making the stairs into an endless battle, we've started laying treats on every single stair before he goes out there, so he's learning that the stairs are a fun experience with magic treats. We've had his food in a treat ball rolling all over the expen so hopefully he'll see it as a place he won't want to pee. I'm still at a loss as to how to get him to understand he can have fun and/or relaxation in the pen and/or crate without tantruming because he's been separated from us though. Maybe he'll just never be that kind of dog.

He's also going to need way way way more stimulation that just I alone can give him during the week, so he's going to need a daycare situation at least a few times a week. Some days, I can spend the mornings with him, training and hanging out with him and cuddling and going for walks and socializing him in public places, and then he can spend the afternoon playing with dog friends while I collapse for a few hours.

What we really need is a third spouse :grin2:

Today he went to puppy kindergarten and then we took him to the mall, where he met about 100 very excited people. We made him sit for each new person so he (hopefully) won't jump on them when he's bigger and he got to meet a variety of different people, hear the mall train, explore the speakers pumping music, etc. Now he's happily unconscious.


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## pepperthepup (May 12, 2017)

So deceptively cute >


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## FosterGolden (Mar 10, 2014)

I've raised several puppies AND fostered young adult dogs in apartments for 15 years, just five years ago I bought my first house. Most of the time, I did it on my own. You just have to recognize that it's work and it's also a temporary life change. It is what it is! Not targeting anyone, but I find it so interesting that people bring home tiny puppies and are then surprised that it's not easy or quick. Do people do that with human babies, too? Thank goodness dogs are so resilient and forgiving because we sure expect a lot of them! 

After reading your post, while I have had young dogs in city apartments, including NYC, the experience that stands out was when I lived in the outskirts of Boston in a two family on the bottom floor (easy enough!) I had a house fire and had to move in with my boyfriend temporarily. I had a six month old Lab who was potty-trained. My boyfriend's apartment was a high rise downtown. The first time I took him out, we stepped out of the door into the hallway to the elevator and he peed. He was used to stepping out the door, down three steps and into the grass. I had to retrain him to go out the door, down the hall, wait for the elevator, take the elevator 11 floors, go through the lobby, out the door, several feet on the sidewalk to the potty area. If he had been a baby puppy, I would have had to completely retrain him, starting from square one.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

pepperthepup said:


> Thank you guys for your extremely helpful answers. I was so overwhelmed by everything that I really needed to reframe my thinking (ie: we're not failing at housetraining and he's not engaging in dominance battles because he's only a tiny puppy). I have health issues and have been dealing with some horrible mix of food poisoning and the stomach flu all week (what a great first week to have a puppy!) and the exhaustion just overloaded me.
> 
> The good thing is, I realized we've maybe been expecting way too much too fast. He's only had one accident in the house since the first day we brought him home and figured out we had a problem! We've hugely stepped up the amount of times we've been taking him out and we're focusing on our successes instead of our failures. Last week, Pepper didn't even know he should be peeing on grass at all. Now he goes *immediately* as soon as we bring him to the patch of grass.
> 
> ...


Honestly, I wouldn't do this while you're house training. The key to training is getting them outside fast. It's not a time to teach stairs. They'll go up and down stairs when they feel they can - he'll just do it. But for now, pick him up and carry him up and down, at least for the next week or two while you still can.


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## pepperthepup (May 12, 2017)

He hasn't had a single accident anywhere except inside the apartment (that one time). He never pees in the hallway, front landing, stairs, walking to the grass, etc. So I think we're good on that front for now.

We did carry him down the stairs the first few days to get him used to getting to the grass and now he gets carried when he goes out in the middle of the night. But otherwise, while he has to pee once he gets to the grass, he never has to go on the way.

The good thing is, while he has a small puppy bladder in general, he seems to have a pretty strong bladder for a puppy his age. He needs to pee once he reaches the grass but is willing to wait while we wrestle on his harness, leash, collar, walk him, etc. We were super worried about that but got lucky.

The only accident he's had was after chewing on a bully stick, doing some training, and then more bully stick. That was 100% on me and he now goes out after the training and again after the bully stick.

In terms of being prepared for the small puppy thing, I stupidly had thought I'd be able to take him onto our balcony to go on puppy pads. I was really wrong and approaching it the wrong way. And I think, no matter how prepared you are, the reality is always 4904374 times worse than the theory. There's no such thing as actually being truly prepared for your first puppy or baby. Everyone has to go through that rude awakening on their own.


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## CedarFurbaby (Jun 6, 2016)

Everyone covered pretty much everything. I think my pup had accidents up to 7 months-ish. He liked going outside, he just didn't understand not inside too. Also his sleeping room is fine but the corridor felt like 'outside' to him. Even after him being usually good and I got the routine down pat, there was a whole period where if he got too excited such as when I had a visitor, suddenly he can't hold it. One thing I would add is lots and lots of praise every time he does it outside and also an EXTRA yummy treat.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

pepperthepup said:


> He hasn't had a single accident anywhere except inside the apartment (that one time). He never pees in the hallway, front landing, stairs, walking to the grass, etc. So I think we're good on that front for now.
> 
> We did carry him down the stairs the first few days to get him used to getting to the grass and now he gets carried when he goes out in the middle of the night. But otherwise, while he has to pee once he gets to the grass, he never has to go on the way.
> 
> ...


That's kind of true!! Even when you're totally experienced - you have had a Golden puppy before - you can get one who is a totally different personality - and you're back to square one figuring out how to deal! 

It sounds like things are going really well. Sounds like he "gets" that he has to go on the grass at this point - which is great. There is nothing wrong with him having to go the second he gets to the grass - in fact, that's really helpful. There may be a few accidents over the next few weeks, it happens, but really sounds like he's progressing well. I was worried about the stairs because it sounded like you were having to start all over, but his age and probably some beginning training to go outdoors with the breeder are clearly helping. It will just get better and easier every day.


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## pepperthepup (May 12, 2017)

In case anybody comes back to see if there's been any updates, I just wanted to let all of you know that Pepper continues to remain accident-free!

The advice all of you gave really helped me, both in terms of useful advice, and in helping me to look at the situation more realistically. We've hugely stepped up the amount of times we take Pepper out and he totally gets what he's supposed to be doing on the grass. Getting him *to* the grass is still harder than we'd like, but the second he hits it, he takes about two steps and then pees. So far, we only have about one trip a day where he *doesn't* pee, so clearly he needs to be going out that much.

And in general, I was able to see that our expectations were too high and accidents happen and things take time. Now that we take him out more, I'm able to be a lot more zen when he comes back in and starts exploring the apartment. Constant hypervigilance is beyond exhausting.

He also started day care on Monday, which was *extremely* helpful to my state of mind (getting over the stomach flu helped with that as well!). The extra stimulation and socialization he's getting have worked wonders, in just a few days. He's more interested in training, less fearful of walking around our complex, less cautious with stairs, etc.

So, thank you all so much for the wakeup I needed! I'm going to be starting a Pepper thread in the puppy part of the forum soon, in case any of you want to stop by and see cute pictures!


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