# Mixed signals from shelter goldie



## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Thank you so much for wanting to rescue. Rescues have the biggest heart, and so do the people who take them in. 

It is difficult to determine what's going on with the belly rub/snarling thing. My first thought is that he's doing "sharky face" play and play growling (hence the soft mouthing) but if he has bitten before then maybe he IS acting aggressively. Dogs with fear aggression often display mixed signals, showing invitation to play (most instances of going belly up) but at the same time snarling. 

I never want to turn someone away from adopting a dog but as someone who works in animal welfare and matches adopters and dogs I have to be honest and say that a fear aggressive dog, a big dog, is not a starter pet. I know that I probably would not have the right resources to rehabilitate a dog who has bitten, particularly out of fear. A dog like this usually requires professional help and a lot of understanding of dog behavior. 

Depending on the type of shelter that this is I might want to contact a Golden Rescue that could pull this dog and do an assessment.

Do you know whether a temperament assessment was done for this guy and what the result was?


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## C's Mom (Dec 7, 2009)

Jackie has given you excellent advice. I totally agree that a fear aggressive dog is not the right dog to start off what I hope will be a life long journey of including dogs in your family. This boy may have other behavioral problems such as being dog reactive. Do they know what he is like around children? Would you trust him around children?
I so admire your willingness to adopt him but I feel I must tell you that you will need to get him some intensive positive training which will be time consuming and expensive. Perhaps the best thing you can do for him is to get him some help via a golden retriever rescue and adopt one of their dogs who will be easier to manage and deserving of a loving home too.


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## herropuppeh (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks for your advice, guys, it is very much appreciated!  I admit we may be a bit too ambitious given our position as newbies... 

Unfortunately, we live in a place where there are no local golden retriever rescue agencies. The dog failed a temperament test conducted by the local SPCA as part of its adoption process and was scheduled to be put to sleep, but was rescued last minute and spent the past couple of months in foster homes and volunteer-run shelters. From what I hear from his handlers and what I can observe, he has improved a lot over the last few weeks and he no longer seems fearful of the things that bothered him before. I feel that he is not really an aggressive dog by nature (he is bullied by other dogs at the shelter), but would resort to biting in desperate self-defense. There is a LOT of work to be done as he had no training on how to behave as a pet. We know that if we decide to adopt, the current foster (an experienced dog owner) and a professional trainer would help us train him, and he would be put through a final temperament test at the conclusion of the training. 

The last thing we want to is exacerbate a potentially dangerous situation due to our lack of experience. We'll probably start looking into other options now...


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Hero*

Hero

Sounds like there are many people willing to support you and this dog. That is wonderful.
Where do you live?
Bless you for wanting to rescue!


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

I am thrilled that he has been picked up by a rescue! That is truly wonderful!

If you plan to adopt I urge you to seek out a behaviorist (not trainer) with at least a masters degree in animal behaviour and discuss this with him/her and hopefully ask him/her to come to the foster home with you. 

Unfortunately 90% of aggression is based in fear and fearful tendencies can be set from birth in a dog so training it out of them is often impossible. However, managing it is possible given the right knowledge and tools. These dogs can make wonderful pets, depending on what you are looking for in a dog.

If your SPCA uses the same temperament test as I do at our SPCA here than I would take the results very seriously. I have yet to see an assessment be way off. 

In the meanwhile there are fantastic books you can read such as Click to Calm, Cautious Canine, Scaredy Dog...Before you adopt.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Oh and by the way rescue groups will most gladly transport a dog to you. No need to have someone really local. Where are you? We have lots of rescue folks on the board who can even suggest a dog they know!


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## herropuppeh (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks for the book recommendations, I'll take a look at them. I've read a few books already - it's fascinating to learn how dogs think and behave, I've always had an interest in animal behavior.

We're excited to welcome our first dog into the family, we both just love them. But I think we may be just a little bit too far for transport...  We're in Singapore now (but still New Yorkers at heart)!


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