# Need some advice



## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Take what I say as another newbie that will be in your shoes in about 9 months...

I'd keep him in the puppy classes showing him when you want/can. I would then wait for Open until he's more mature unless he's winning his class reliably and/or winning points from the puppy class....then I'd continue to Open.


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Do what your breeder or handler tells you to do. It's different for every dog. The quickest way to burn out is to show a dog continuously from 12-18 into open and get frustrated that he's not winning, retire him and three years later he's absolutely stunning but you're convinced the show scene is "political." I see this time and time again. Yes, he might be three or four years old before he's ready to be competitive, that is just what it is. Kids don't go to college until they are 18 for the same reason, they weren't ready at 12.


----------



## Sunkota (Sep 30, 2010)

Listen to the handler and breeder. If he is gawky, leggy, out of coat - leave him at home, if he looks OK show him off and on. Use infodog.com to decide where to show him - check out what judges have done in the past - see if they put up WD out of puppy or 12-18. 

I love 12-18 and have finished a lot of dogs out of that class. It seems to be a popular class for judges to point from. I have also had dogs that just were not ready and missed that entire class but finished quickly from Open.


----------



## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

K9-Design said:


> Do what your breeder or handler tells you to do. It's different for every dog. The quickest way to burn out is to show a dog continuously from 12-18 into open and get frustrated that he's not winning, retire him and three years later he's absolutely stunning but you're convinced the show scene is "political." I see this time and time again. Yes, he might be three or four years old before he's ready to be competitive, that is just what it is. Kids don't go to college until they are 18 for the same reason, they weren't ready at 12.


That's definitely what I'm worried about. It especially difficult right now because he's our first show dog, so we are getting excited and learning a lot - which makes us want to do it more. But I know a dog who has almost aged into open who hates showing....and the owner is very frustrated right now because the dog is not winning. But I think the dog was probably shown too much in the puppy classes and has been burnt out on showing. Something we definitely want to avoid.

For the shows we enter him in, would you keep them to the smaller shows or go by the judge regardless of the entry?


----------



## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Sunkota said:


> Listen to the handler and breeder. If he is gawky, leggy, out of coat - leave him at home, if he looks OK show him off and on. Use infodog.com to decide where to show him - check out what judges have done in the past - see if they put up WD out of puppy or 12-18.
> 
> I love 12-18 and have finished a lot of dogs out of that class. It seems to be a popular class for judges to point from. I have also had dogs that just were not ready and missed that entire class but finished quickly from Open.


It seems to kind of be a crap shoot with 12-18, doesn't it? I have started doing that type of research on infodog and found it to be very informative. I also keep a spreadsheet on all the judges we've seen. There are already a couple i wouldn't show him to again, including one from this past weekend. 

He was out of coat for a bit but it's coming back. He's stayed really together and has been competitive - but getting Reserve, not the points. That has actually started to get a bit frustrating! I've already committed to a show in a month in Palm Springs, but I think after that I'm going to be really selective on where I enter him for the next 6 months to a year and see how he's llooking.

I'll also ask you the same question I asked Anney, for the shows we enter him in, would you keep them to the smaller shows or go by the judge regardless of the entry?


----------



## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Well, newbie myself I am relying on my breeder and friends to help with that. Scout aged out of 12-18 and I decided we have a long wait. My breeder doesn't show her dogs until they are at least 2, sometimes older, and sometimes not until after they have a litter. 

Actually, I kind of like the waiting part right now. I would hate to feel rushed to get a Ch--for everyone who feels they must have a champion by age 2 or 3.


----------



## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

I would hold back, do the odd show, and take some 'fun' classes with him for now. Agility, obedience, rally... something to get him out and about and playing. That way he's not bored with only doing conformation and so on.


----------



## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Bender said:


> I would hold back, do the odd show, and take some 'fun' classes with him for now. Agility, obedience, rally... something to get him out and about and playing. That way he's not bored with only doing conformation and so on.


I don't see any signs of burnout or boredom with Jack and conformation at this point, but I don't want it to be there at all so that's a good recommendation. It actually would be a good time for us to start back up with field training. We're going to start with Chloe as well....and doing it with both of them might be fun for us.


----------



## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

I don't think you want to wait till he does seem bored! Field would be good to do, and you'll find when he grows up he'll look much better and do much better. Bender didn't do much till she was 3-4 and then finished in one weekend with breed and group placements.


----------



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Personally I would pull him completely for a while. 
Showing isn't cheap, by the time you pay entries and the handler. Why show a dog that's not at his peak? He may not finish until he's 3 whether you show him now, or wait. But if you wait, you haven't paid all that money in the meantime!
Also, you really want to concentrate on the majors. The single points will fill in quickly enough, and I'm told it's really a pain to show a dog that's "singled out" because you have to find majors, and you keep entering shows that have big enough entries and then people don't show up, the major breaks, and now you've paid the entry and the handler and the win won't do you any good. So you want to try to get his majors and then worry about the singles. That said, he's going to have to be at his prime to get those majors.
As far as the size of the shows, I was getting frustrated because Tito got 3 big majors in pretty short order (1 in late December, then 2 in mid-April) but then couldn't beat 2 or 3 other dogs in SEVERAL small shows for his last point. I was complaining that he could beat 70+ other goldens at a specialty, but couldn't beat 2 others for the last stinking point. A very well known and respected handler told me to STOP ENTERING HIM IN SMALL SHOWS!!! I was told, which made perfect sense to me, that the judging at the small shows frequently isn't as good as the judging at the bigger shows. At a lot of the big shows we entered, the judge was hired to judge ONLY goldens, or only goldens and labs. So these judges were pretty well versed in the golden standard, since they were hired specifically to judge goldens. At the smaller shows, you get a judge who is judging the entire sporting group, and may or may not be real up on what the golden really should look like. Sure enough, I entered him in one more big show (major that broke) and he took BOW for a 2 point win to finish. So going to the smaller shows is really more of a crap shoot, IMO.
So go play in the field, and then show your SH or MH when he's ready to go back to the breed ring


----------



## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

He generally does exponentially better in front of judges who are golden breeders (or at least someone who is very familiar with the breed) so that may be the case with him like it was with Tito. 

I do worry about pulling him completely though, for a couple of reasons. First, I don't want him to lose his priority with our handler. Second, there aren't a lot of really competitive open dogs in our area right now so I think he has the chance to do well at some smaller shows if the judges are good judges for him. 

Maybe we'll just take it as it comes. If he's looking great and starting to look more mature in a few months, we'll enter him. If not, we'll keep him out. It's just so uncertain, which is hard for a planner like me


----------



## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

I know your feeling! Remi and I have been training for her JH and hunt things along with dabbling with agility. She had her 1st show in september at 17 months. The show was in my hometown and she did great for her 1st show. She is now 20 months old and she will have her 2nd show this weekend. She has matured a lot since September...but still young. She will be in open though! I am nervous about that. I have been working with her a lot. We will see after this show it is back to finish off her JH and work on SH things. In March, she will go to her daddy's breeder's house and stay a while and she will enter her in some shows over there. I do not want to enter her too much because I do not think she is ready. She is getting close but not yet, so I am anxious. I do not want her traveling and paying for all the cost if she is not ready. The handler I used for September wanted me to bring her for the January Circuit in Fl and quoted me around $1500...I was like YIKES! My breeder called me and said she would wait until she is "Really" ready then enter her in big shows. So, that is exactly what I am going to do. Save now so I can spend it later


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Barb your post about big vs. small shows ring so true with many dogs. Blade is one of them -- he needs two stinkin points and is so much a "type" of golden -- in small shows with all breed judges they don't know what the heck to do with him. At larger shows with more golden-specialized judges he does extremely well. His two majors were a slam dunk and I knew he would win before showing up. When I shop judges at big shows he is getting placement or reserves. Now keep your fingers crossed for this weekend


----------



## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

K9-Design said:


> Barb your post about big vs. small shows ring so true with many dogs. Blade is one of them -- he needs two stinkin points and is so much a "type" of golden -- in small shows with all breed judges they don't know what the heck to do with him. At larger shows with more golden-specialized judges he does extremely well. His two majors were a slam dunk and I knew he would win before showing up. When I shop judges at big shows he is getting placement or reserves. Now keep your fingers crossed for this weekend


Good luck this weekend! Let us know how he does!


----------



## The Trio (Apr 24, 2010)

hotel4dogs said:


> Personally I would pull him completely for a while.
> Showing isn't cheap, by the time you pay entries and the handler. Why show a dog that's not at his peak? He may not finish until he's 3 whether you show him now, or wait. But if you wait, you haven't paid all that money in the meantime!
> Also, you really want to concentrate on the majors. The single points will fill in quickly enough, and I'm told it's really a pain to show a dog that's "singled out" because you have to find majors, and you keep entering shows that have big enough entries and then people don't show up, the major breaks, and now you've paid the entry and the handler and the win won't do you any good. So you want to try to get his majors and then worry about the singles. That said, he's going to have to be at his prime to get those majors.
> As far as the size of the shows, I was getting frustrated because Tito got 3 big majors in pretty short order (1 in late December, then 2 in mid-April) but then couldn't beat 2 or 3 other dogs in SEVERAL small shows for his last point. I was complaining that he could beat 70+ other goldens at a specialty, but couldn't beat 2 others for the last stinking point. A very well known and respected handler told me to STOP ENTERING HIM IN SMALL SHOWS!!! I was told, which made perfect sense to me, that the judging at the small shows frequently isn't as good as the judging at the bigger shows. At a lot of the big shows we entered, the judge was hired to judge ONLY goldens, or only goldens and labs. So these judges were pretty well versed in the golden standard, since they were hired specifically to judge goldens. At the smaller shows, you get a judge who is judging the entire sporting group, and may or may not be real up on what the golden really should look like. Sure enough, I entered him in one more big show (major that broke) and he took BOW for a 2 point win to finish. So going to the smaller shows is really more of a crap shoot, IMO.
> So go play in the field, and then show your SH or MH when he's ready to go back to the breed ring


AMEN!! I sent Teddy with 3 different handlers, myself, and 4 different groomers. He went to every show I could afford from the time he was 6 months old until 2 1/2. I spent well over $4,000 and I had NOTHING to show for it. No points, Nothing! My breeder lived to far away for this newbie for a lot of help. Well when we got a scare about his hips I drove the 15 hours to Texas and Helen took him for a while. Well that was in May and Teddy just turned 3 in November with 12 points and 1 major. He just didn't fill out and look good until now. That and Helen had a handler that knew what she was doing. Listen to your breeder. Don't spend the kind of money I did only to wind up with zero. Let him mature. If you want to enter him periodically to test the waters then do so, but don't go to every show. And go to big shows. Major hunting is a MAJOR pain in the A$$.


----------



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

OT---good luck this weekend Anney, let us know how it goes!!!


----------



## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

With Copley, his handler-to-be really wants to wait until he is ready & mature, and then try to finish more quickly bc she knows which judges love his style of golden and which do not. She thinks getting a dog out when he is not looking his best stays in people's minds, and his breeder seems to agree independently. For me, part of it is financial and part of it is pet-owner-itis in the sense of not wanting to send the dog away at a young age but not being an especially skillful handler myself. Also, we are so active- swimming in the ocean, hiking in the mud & burrs, that show coat care means a serious change from our normal routine. I have high hopes to time it right. I hope to get him out at about 16 months. If he doesnt do well, then I will wait again until he is about three. If he does well, I'll work hard on his coat, trust our handler, and try to see it through then and there.


----------



## Sunkota (Sep 30, 2010)

> I'll also ask you the same question I asked Anney, for the shows we enter him in, would you keep them to the smaller shows or go by the judge regardless of the entry?


If he is ready - in coat, good condition, moving well, showing well, ready to win - go to judges that have put up from 12-18 no matter how big the show. My theory has always been get the majors first ;-) 

When you think of it - at regular shows the Open class is almost always biggest, you need to beat a lot of dogs to win. Other classes are smaller, fewer dogs to beat. If you win your class, when you step into the Winners class there are only a few dogs (maximum of 8) to beat for WD.


----------



## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Sunkota said:


> If he is ready - in coat, good condition, moving well, showing well, ready to win - go to judges that have put up from 12-18 no matter how big the show. My theory has always been get the majors first ;-)
> 
> When you think of it - at regular shows the Open class is almost always biggest, you need to beat a lot of dogs to win. Other classes are smaller, fewer dogs to beat. If you win your class, when you step into the Winners class there are only a few dogs (maximum of 8) to beat for WD.


His coat is in process of coming back right now so that's the only wild card. He's in good condition, he'll be swimming a lot in the next few weeks too so that he'll stay that way. I'm not sure his coat will be at 100% for the Palm Springs show the second week in January, but I'm hoping (and giving him Dogzymes Gro Hair! LOL)!!! It's looking better everyday and we have about 3 weeks....so fingers crossed!

I've been researching judges for the shows that are generally majors coming up. There's one in particular that put up a 6-9 puppy dog for a 3 pt major! (Yowza.) But the plus on that info is that I know a bitch from that same litter and she resembles Jack a lot. We even joked that she's Jack's doppleganger since they look so alike. That might be a good day to enter him. 

What are your thoughts about judges that are only provisional for judging Goldens? Do you think they'd be less likely to rock the boat and put up a puppy just since they're getting their feet wet in the breed? There are a few of those at shows coming up and I've never showed Jack to judges with a provisional license (it's a license, right?) before.


----------

