# National Retriever Championship



## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

The National Retriever Championship (i.e., THE "National," as opposed to the GRCA National Specialty-THE "Specialty") will begin this coming Sunday near Vicksburg, Mississippi. If you are nearby, it would be fun, exciting and probably informative if you visited to see the best of the best retrievers compete in this week-long, 10 series event. Ninety-eight dogs are entered ... unfortunately no Goldens (things are looking up though, as there are actually several Goldens which are now running at or near the level of national caliber dogs).

Below is a link to the site from which you can access the blog which will provide nearly real-time updates on the dogs' performance, photos of dogs-contestants-tests, and descriptions of the tests. While I admit to being a retriever nerd and to watching the blog far, far too much during the work day, I'm certain that even non-nerd retriever-enthusiasts will enjoy keeping an eye on the blog next week.

theRetrieverNews.com - TheRetrieverNews.com

FTGoldens

ps: I'm interested to see if the trend of short and tighter tests continues to prevail (for field trials, "short" means most marks are under 250 yards). Also, what effect will the much colder temps (thank you, Polar Vortex) have on the tests and the dogs.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Thank you so much for posting this! I was able to go last year and LOVED it. I can't wait till it's in Cheraw next year so I can go again. I honestly think you should post this in the "Main Discussion" area and encourage people who aren't involved with field work to go. It is an eye opener to see what these dogs were bred for and explains why a walk around the block isn't sufficient exercise for a retriever.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

FT, question for you

What is your feeling about shorter and tighter tests?


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

gdgli said:


> FT, question for you
> 
> What is your feeling about shorter and tighter tests?


Well, this will be answered in two parts.

My philosophy on running tests is that so long as a test doesn't change during the day, all the contestants have to run the same test, so whatever the judges throw at us is fine with me. (Example of a test changing during the day is when on a mark one or more gunners is either in a shadow or the sun is behind the gunner, or on a blind when the sun is in a location that makes it inordinately difficult for the dog to see the handler or the handler to see the dog. Typically, either early running or late running dogs face these problems.) Long or short, tight or wide open ... all is fair game.

On the other hand, my dogs generally do much better on the long, tough, not-too-technical go-get'm marks. So I'd have to say that my preference is not short and tight, but if that's what I have to face every trial weekend, I'll train for it.

Of course I have a mental notebook which lists the preferences of many judges that I've run under, so before a trial I will contemplate the judges' historical set ups and at least expose my dogs to them before the trial.

Also, there's sufficient fodder for a debate about how long can/should we go for marks and blinds. If there's no cover or wind or terrain or water, then distance may have to become the differentiating factor to separate the dogs. In a field trial, separation is a must.

FTGoldens


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

never really thought of creating a notebook with notes on judges, that is a great idea!


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

so I've got a question for you, FTGoldens. You trial with goldens and you love it. What is it about goldens over labs that made you decide that was what you are going to train for trials? Do you like the challenge? Do you have aspirations for firsts with your goldens? Do you find them to have skills that labs lack? I'm just curious why you chose the golden route, if you don't mind me asking.


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

Thanks, that was really interesting! It's so different from what we're used to with the HT scene. It looks like very little cover but those marks strike terror in me.

It reminds me of something I saw one time I'll leave out the details other than it was a triple at and event I observed. One of the dogs literally faced the handler and jumped all over the handler while the marks went down. That dog did not see one mark go down. The handler spent what felt like 10 minutes lining the dog up to each mark and the dog picked up all the birds. So it seems if you can train the dog to line up and go, you can accomplish miracles.


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## marsh mop (Mar 13, 2009)

MillionsofPeaches said:


> never really thought of creating a notebook with notes on judges, that is a great idea!


 I hope I'm not on that list.

I just run , pass , fail, just have fun. Try to learn something to make your team better.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

for some reason Marsh Mop I'm thinking you have judged me, lol. If so, I will say, all the judges I've had are freaking awesome so no complaints. Just notes on how judges set up and so forth would be valuable information for the future. If you are the judge I just had recently...well, I really liked your set up, it was more challenging then not and I like that because I train for that and also I clapped for my girl and you were right there excited with me! Otherwise, I look forward to seeing you out there one day!


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Well, after "just" a double and a blind, the field has gone from 97 to 85. The marks didn't appear to have been particularly tight or long ... however, from the photos it looks like the judges made great use of the terrain.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

That was really the intent of my previous question and that is are really long marks needed if the judges really know how to use good bird placement? In your opinion.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

gdgli said:


> That was really the intent of my previous question and that is are really long marks needed if the judges really know how to use good bird placement? In your opinion.


As I mentioned in the earlier post, if the judges have other factors to utilize, marks do not have to be long. In the subject land marks, they had terrain to use and did so with great effect. 

GDGLI (and others), what about that terrain made the bird placement effective? What other factors seem to be in play?


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Third Series:
Now the judges are going long ... a land/water triple, with the two retired marks at 345 yards, and the short mark at 107 yards.
This exemplifies why the dogs running the National must be "in balance," that is, able to go long and go short.
This test may be fun to keep an eye on.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

FTGoldens said:


> As I mentioned in the earlier post, if the judges have other factors to utilize, marks do not have to be long. In the subject land marks, they had terrain to use and did so with great effect.
> 
> GDGLI (and others), what about that terrain made the bird placement effective? What other factors seem to be in play?


Rank amateur but will state what I see:

Very small gap for the blind.
The double: 90 then 200 yds.---long memory bird assuming flyer is picked up first
Windy among the hills=swirling wind
Retiring guns at the top of the hill---(Dog) Which hill do I run to?
Dead bird into an indentation

OK, I tried


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

MillionsofPeaches said:


> so I've got a question for you, FTGoldens. You trial with goldens and you love it. What is it about goldens over labs that made you decide that was what you are going to train for trials? Do you like the challenge? Do you have aspirations for firsts with your goldens? Do you find them to have skills that labs lack? I'm just curious why you chose the golden route, if you don't mind me asking.


Thank you! Meant to ask the same questions awhile back!


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

MillionsofPeaches said:


> so I've got a question for you, FTGoldens. You trial with goldens and you love it. What is it about goldens over labs that made you decide that was what you are going to train for trials? Do you like the challenge? Do you have aspirations for firsts with your goldens? Do you find them to have skills that labs lack? I'm just curious why you chose the golden route, if you don't mind me asking.


Okay, no autobiography here, but ....
The decision to go with Goldens was not even my choice .... "Several" years ago, my girlfriend wanted a puppy for her birthday; the first litter that we visited was a litter of Goldens; one little female went up to her and rolled over to get her belly rubbed ... that was that! That's how the decision was made. Soon thereafter I bought my own Golden, he was from very strong field lines. 

With regard to liking the challenge, yes indeed. There's nothing quite like running the only Golden in an Open and driving away with a first place blue ribbon on my dashboard.

I dont' really think that anyone can say that field trial bred Goldens have any "skills that labs lack"; and vice versa, I don't believe that field trial bred labs have any skills that Goldens lack. This is based on my personal opinion that only one in at least a hundred, maybe a thousand ... maybe ten thousand Goldens or labs can make it as a competitive, national caliber field trial dog ... there are so many innate characteristics that it takes to even have the capability to become a national caliber dog, and then the animal with those characteristics must get into the hands of someone who can take that animal through the training to reach that level. 

Aspirations for my Goldens, while not a first for the breed, certainly include achieving a title with "National" in front of it, as in National Field Champion or National Amateur Field Champion. It's been a very, very long time since a Golden has earned either of those titles (but then, it was 23 years since a Golden female had earned both the FC and AFC titles, yet we had two Golden girls do it within a couple years of each other ... Lucy and Lacy).

So, why did I choose the Golden route? I didn't, I just got LUCKY!!!


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

thank you for humoring me. I've been hoping I didn't offend you by asking and you'd answer. That is quite a funny story about how you started with goldens and it also surprises me. I didn't think the answer would be that simple


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

FTGoldens said:


> Aspirations for my Goldens, while not a first for the breed, certainly include achieving a title with "National" in front of it, as in National Field Champion or National Amateur Field Champion.


Go get 'em!


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I see it's slightly chilly today in Vicksburg.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

gdgli said:


> Rank amateur but will state what I see:
> 
> Very small gap for the blind.
> The double: 90 then 200 yds.---long memory bird assuming flyer is picked up first
> ...


Pretty perceptive stuff.

In addition to those factors, the following probably had some impact on the difficulty of the test:
* Pheasants were used; although they were all roosters, they don't put off nearly as much scent as ducks. 
* The long gunners retire (i.e., move) as the dog is preparing to run the blind; that movement will draw the dog's attention away from the task at hand, making it want to look left, and if it's looking left, it will tend to head that way.
*Both marks appear to have been thrown downhill ... dogs generally prefer to hunt UPhill instead of downhill.

There's probably other stuff that we can't see via photos.

FTGoldens


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Eighty one dogs called back. Let's see what this series is like.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

gdgli said:


> Eighty one dogs called back. Let's see what this series is like.


Fourth series is a 385 yard water blind, with a poison bird to the right. 
It's a good looking set up, but several dogs have apparently been unable to hear whistles ... which could be due to the wind direction. If the handlers feel that the dogs cannot hear the whistles, they will be ... ummm ... ticked off. (And frankly, if that's the case, it's a shame for them to lose the dog for that reason, truly a shame!)
FTGoldens


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

FTGoldens said:


> Fourth series is a 385 yard water blind, with a poison bird to the right.
> It's a good looking set up, but several dogs have apparently been unable to hear whistles ... which could be due to the wind direction. If the handlers feel that the dogs cannot hear the whistles, they will be ... ummm ... ticked off. (And frankly, if that's the case, it's a shame for them to lose the dog for that reason, truly a shame!)
> FTGoldens


From an on-the-ground observer, the entry into the pond is 275 yards from the line. Said observer doesn't believe that the dogs are unable to hear the whistles, at least most of the time ... they just don't want to.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

ah. That is a test of will right there.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I watched a posting of that issue today on Facebook. I was pretty shocked to see a dog of that caliber not responding to a sit whistle! Actually multiple whistles. Something is sucking those dogs away. Must be the angle of the hill...


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

The fourth series water blind took a pretty big toll on the competitors. 

If they follow protocol, the fifth series will be a big land quad with a mixed bag (ducks and pheasants). It is typically the series seeing the greatest number of cuts. We'll soon see what the judges decide to do ....

FTGoldens


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

FTGoldens said:


> The fourth series water blind took a pretty big toll on the competitors.
> 
> If they follow protocol, the fifth series will be a big land quad with a mixed bag (ducks and pheasants). It is typically the series seeing the greatest number of cuts. We'll soon see what the judges decide to do ....
> 
> FTGoldens


At this point, it seems that the dogs are handling the test quite well.


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

FTGoldens said:


> As I mentioned in the earlier post, if the judges have other factors to utilize, marks do not have to be long. In the subject land marks, they had terrain to use and did so with great effect.
> 
> GDGLI (and others), what about that terrain made the bird placement effective? What other factors seem to be in play?


I looked again and only see pics from Series 5, 4, and 3.
The first day I looked was series 1 which was an extremely tight I think triple and blind. I wrote that there looked to be little cover and looking at all these other photos, I think that can be a factor - there's nothing much to mark off of. Most of the photos have a bush or a tree.

The tightness is a factor. If they're too close together and the dog doesn't have a great memory they might think they already picked the bird up.

The water is so small, in the 3rd series "water triple" it just amazes me the little pond is the water and how little water needs to be taken. The precision - wow.

The 4th series - longest water entry ever and again the smallness of the water probably contributes to the sensibility of the dog to go around instead of through. The precision required to go through. The poison bird tugging on the right and the up hill tugging on the left. Like FT said, Gladys likes to RUN UP HILLS ! wheee! bye Gladys.

The 5th series .. all I see is a big flat field with one bush and 2 trees to mark off of. memory memory memory. and depth perception. 
I noticed some roads and paths but I suspect these dogs just cross and go.

well I better get back to work, that's what I'm actually supposed to be doing  

Thanks for the fun game FT.

Oh I forgot to add, the "dog must be sent from the mat" photo would be the #1 challenge for us!


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

The sixth series is a fairly long land/water triple (205 yds, 305 yards, 334 yds), which is causing a lot of hunts and a number of handles. According to a recent post, the wind is favoring the dogs on the long retired mark. Interesting placement of the flyer.
There are some nice photos of the test on the blog.

Update: In furtherance if the comment about the wind, as per the blog, when the wind died down, there were three handles in a row!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I cannot believe that there is not even ONE golden retriever this year. Maybe I missed it?!


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Claudia M said:


> I cannot believe that there is not even ONE golden retriever this year. Maybe I missed it?!


You didn't miss it ....
:no:

For next year .... 
:crossfing


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

A pretty big cut after the 6th series (30%) ... 19 dogs dropped, going from 64 to 45.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I am a newbie at this but that set up looked hard. I can't wait to see comments on this series.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

FTGoldens said:


> You didn't miss it ....
> :no:
> 
> For next year ....
> :crossfing


Are you training in that direction for next year?


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Claudia M said:


> Are you training in that direction for next year?


I'm ALWAYS training for qualifying for a national! The path, however, may be longer than a year or even two, it depends on whether my current all-age dog is (i) of the appropriate age and, more importantly, (ii) of national caliber. As I have mentioned, there are very few dogs which are actually national caliber animals. And then there's that third factor ... being an amateur, even assuming that points (i) and (ii) are covered, there's point (iii): do I possess the skills required to bring my next dog up to the level to be a national caliber animal. 
So, yes, I'm training in that direction, but there are a whole bunch of "ifs" to get there. The above are probably the three biggies, but there are even more: will that dog stay healthy and injury free, will I be able to run enough trials to give that dog a reasonable chance to qualify, etc.
Hope must be ever present!
FTGoldens


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

This past weekend I expressed my "golden" frustration to the trainer who is a lab person. He said the same thing "there are very few dogs which are actually national caliber" and when you breed 5000 labs towards it you get more labs in it. If you only breed 200 goldens towards it you are lucky if one or two make it.

good luck!


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Claudia M said:


> This past weekend I expressed my "golden" frustration to the trainer who is a lab person. He said the same thing "there are very few dogs which are actually national caliber" and when you breed 5000 labs towards it you get more labs in it. If you only breed 200 goldens towards it you are lucky if one or two make it.
> 
> good luck!


He said it very well ... I'll use that quote!

And as he insinuated, to get a national caliber dog, regardless of breed, it doesn't just happen ... the right breeding HAS to be behind the dog. While over the generations there may be an occasional "lucky" breeding which produced a national caliber animal, the vast majority of national qualifiers have pedigrees in which you will find, on numerous occasions, the letters: FC - AFC.


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