# Any opinions on Wellness foods?



## jmamom (Dec 3, 2009)

I'm thinking of trying to switch to a healthier kibble when I switch Josie to Adult food (currently I'm feeding her ProPlan puppy). Does anyone have an opinion on the Wellness brand? I'm just starting to think about this, so all opinions are welcome!!!


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## Sophie_Mom (Jan 21, 2009)

We feed Sophie a 50/50 combination of Wellness Core and Wellness Super 5 Mix. She has done really great on it! She's a great, healthy weight and she has lots of energy! We had had some problems with ear infections in her left ear, but since switching to Wellness, she hasn't had anymore problems. We also give her a can of Wellness to supplement several times a week. We've recently tried some Honest Kitchen to supplement the kibble as well. We have been very pleased!


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## Goldilocks (Jun 3, 2007)

My personal opinion is Wellness is not of the high quality I knew it to be 5-10 years ago. Then with the take over by Wellpet recently, I really think the quality has gone downhill. When I first started feeding Wellness to my cat 10 years ago or so it was actually a baked product. I ended up switching Cleo to Innova last spring because of all the negative changes to the Wellness product.

Check out Fromm. It's a family owned business and made in their own plant. I believe you will get a much better food here. Innova is also a really good brand.


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## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

Oh great that was one of the foods I was considering for Morgan !!


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## Sophie_Mom (Jan 21, 2009)

I just read up on the Fromm dog food - They sell it where Sophie goes to daycare. I think I'll pick some up tomorrow when I am picking her up. It sounds great! You've had good luck with it?

Though we haven't had any "problems" with Wellness at all, I do agree with your comments, and the way I am "looking" for something else and supplementing, I think I haven't been as happy as I thought. Thanks!


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## Belle's Mom (Jan 24, 2007)

We feed Belle half Super 5 Mix Healthy Weight and half Wellness Core Reduced Fat and are very happy with it. Belle has IBD and has done great on the Wellness food - the higher fiber lower fat has kept her system in check, good energy, good poop, etc.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Tinkerbell is on Wellness Core reduced fat and we are extremely happy. Sge gets fresh veggies and sometimes fruit mixed in, but when we made the switch we were able to quit supplementing with a lot of other stuff like canned food or homemade stew. It is the first food she has ever eaten without supplementing and I can ever use it as a treat.


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## LOVEisGOLDEN (Jan 4, 2008)

I have yet to have a dog do well on any Wellness formulas. they all ended up with diarrhea or very loose stools that didn't clear up until we switched brands. I am very happy with Professional & TOTW. (I researched for weeks before finding the right food for the girls & am VERY picky!) the Professional is very cheap, but a high quality kibble.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

What Fromm formulas do you use? There seem to be a lot of choices. I've seen it in the stores, but never knew a ton about it. I was hoping there was an ALS, be I don't think there is after looking, unless the 4 Star line can be used that way.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

CarolinaCasey said:


> What Fromm formulas do you use? There seem to be a lot of choices. I've seen it in the stores, but never knew a ton about it. I was hoping there was an ALS, be I don't think there is after looking, unless the 4 Star line can be used that way.


We LOVE Fromm 4 star line here. All formulas are all life stages. VERY high quality, a family owned company with their own manufacturing plant. NEVER involved in a recall. www.frommfamily.com Lots of info on all the different varieties. We use the duck since Cody does very well on that. I have used the salmon too ( not the grain free) and they loved it. It is a very small sized kibble though. We have also cycled thru the chicken and they did well on that too. Moderately priced too for such a high quality food.

Wellness and Eagle Pack was sold to Berwin Industries who then formed the Wellpet co and put them both under that umbrella. We used Eagle Pack Holistic before the sale with great success, but started having problems afterward, even though they said there were no changes. I've heard from others the same thing with Wellness.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

I have used Wellness White Fish and Sweet Potatoe for several years for my dog with skin allergies and have had GREAT results. All 3 of my Goldens are doing well on the food and have never had any problems with loose stools. It took some time for my newest pup to transition from the brand being fed by the breeder but there have been no problems other than the fact it is rather pricey.


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## jmamom (Dec 3, 2009)

Thanks for the replies. One of my concerns about switching food is Josie's sensitive tummy. I tried to change to Blue Buffalo about 3 months ago - that did *not* go well. I never even made the change completely, and I did it really slowly. I have also noticed that she can be sensitive to dairy - yogurt, cream cheese, cheese sticks, etc. 
Is the Fromm's something that Petsmart carries or do you have to order it online? What about California Natural? I'm really worried about switching to another food that is too rich for Josie's tummy. 
I have to say, she does very well on the ProPlan - firm stools, beautiful coat, happy doggy. I'm very up in the air about all this!!!:doh:


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

jmamom said:


> Thanks for the replies. One of my concerns about switching food is Josie's sensitive tummy. I tried to change to Blue Buffalo about 3 months ago - that did *not* go well. I never even made the change completely, and I did it really slowly. I have also noticed that she can be sensitive to dairy - yogurt, cream cheese, cheese sticks, etc.
> Is the Fromm's something that Petsmart carries or do you have to order it online? What about California Natural? I'm really worried about switching to another food that is too rich for Josie's tummy.
> I have to say, she does very well on the ProPlan - firm stools, beautiful coat, happy doggy. I'm very up in the air about all this!!!:doh:


If she's doing great on the ProPlan, what makes you think it's not a healthy food?

Many, many dogs don't do well on dog foods that label themselves as "premium."


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I agree, if she's doing well on ProPlan, I'd stick with it. Many people get great results on it.


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## jmamom (Dec 3, 2009)

The Pro plan has alot of corn, and I hear about so many allergies to corn products. She is pretty itchy and I wonder if she would do better on a food without the corn. I guess my thinking is that if I need to switch to adult food anyway, maybe I should try something without the corn and see if it helps the itching. Then again - dogs scratch alot, right? I very well may stay with the ProPlan, I just figure now would be a good time to consider the switch. All of this advice is helpful - thanks so much!


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

jmamom said:


> Is the Fromm's something that Petsmart carries or do you have to order it online? What about California Natural?


I don't think Petsmart carries Fromm or California Natural. From what I understand, neither company will sell to mass retailers like Petsmart or Petco. I haven't checked in quite a while though, so maybe that's changed by now. You can order both online, or if you have any little boutique type stores near you, they might carry it. 

Riley is actually on a half and half mix of Fromm's 4-star duck & sweet potato and California Natural's herring & sweet potato. I'm thrilled with the results. Couldn't be happier. 
The only downside to it (if there is one) is the availability. There are about four stores here, locally, that carry the CN, but only one that carries Fromm. I just make sure that we never run too low in case the store is out of stock and I have to order it online. When I do have to order, I get it from Luke's All Natural. He's very good about shipping the orders out quickly. He'll also put together a sample pack for you, if you want to try different foods before buying a larger bag. 

Our Gunner is on Wellness. We use their Core grain-free. Wellness probably wouldn't be my first choice. I agree with the others who feel that the quality probably isn't what it used to be and is probably closer to any other mass produced dog food nowadays. But that said, Gunner does amazingly well on it. He has Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency and no one believes it by looking at him. So changing his food is something we don't even _think_ about anymore! 

There are a lot of 'good' choices out there and you'll get varying opinions on just about all of them. It can take some trial and error, but once you find the right food, it's worth it.


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## 2golddogs (Oct 19, 2009)

I think you're right to want to switch to a food without corn as many dogs are allergic. If your pup is already scratching a lot she may be allergic to corn. I never realized this until I switched Kosmo from food with corn to a grain free food. We were always fighting ear infections even though we religiously checked his ears and cleaned them. It has been over a year since we switched food and no ear infections. When I check his ears they are always clean. No more head shaking and itching!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

jmamom said:


> The Pro plan has alot of corn, and I hear about so many allergies to corn products. She is pretty itchy and I wonder if she would do better on a food without the corn. I guess my thinking is that if I need to switch to adult food anyway, maybe I should try something without the corn and see if it helps the itching. Then again - dogs scratch alot, right? I very well may stay with the ProPlan, I just figure now would be a good time to consider the switch. All of this advice is helpful - thanks so much!


I think a lot of what you may hear about "corn allergies" is nonsense and not based in science. There are probably some dogs who are truly allergic to corn, or for whom foods with improper kinds of fat lead to dry skin. But if your dog is thriving, then changing the food makes little sense, as you appear to have discovered with the Blue Buffalo.

If corn isn't the culprit for the itching (and a lot of things are more likely), you may be switching your dog to a more expensive food that's less healthy for her.


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## Sophie_Mom (Jan 21, 2009)

I'm going to pick up some of the Fromm tonight at her daycare. I think I'll try the 4 Star Chicken & Veg to start. From everything I've read, it sounds GREAT and it's cheaper than Wellness. We just bought a new bag of Core as well, so we'll be able to do both.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

2golddogs said:


> I think you're right to want to switch to a food without corn as many dogs are allergic. If your pup is already scratching a lot she may be allergic to corn. I never realized this until I switched Kosmo from food with corn to a grain free food. We were always fighting ear infections even though we religiously checked his ears and cleaned them. It has been over a year since we switched food and no ear infections. When I check his ears they are always clean. No more head shaking and itching!


Can you provide some proof to substantiate the claim that "many dogs are allergic" to corn?


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## jmamom (Dec 3, 2009)

tippykayak said:


> I think a lot of what you may hear about "corn allergies" is nonsense and not based in science. There are probably some dogs who are truly allergic to corn, or for whom foods with improper kinds of fat lead to dry skin. But if your dog is thriving, then changing the food makes little sense, as you appear to have discovered with the Blue Buffalo.
> 
> If corn isn't the culprit for the itching (and a lot of things are more likely), you may be switching your dog to a more expensive food that's less healthy for her.


This sums up all my fears about switching. I feel like if it ain't broke, why fix it? 
But at the same time, I do want what's best for her, and what if I'm missing something better?
Then again, I certainly don't shop at whole foods, and my kids favorite is McDonalds, so why should the dog get special treatment?
At this rate, she'll be on puppy food forever.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

jmamom said:


> This sums up all my fears about switching. I feel like if it ain't broke, why fix it?
> But at the same time, I do want what's best for her, and what if I'm missing something better?
> Then again, I certainly don't shop at whole foods, and my kids favorite is McDonalds, so why should the dog get special treatment?
> At this rate, she'll be on puppy food forever.


You can spend your life freaking out over finding "something better," so at some point, you have to draw the line with that neurotic part of your brain. If your dog is thriving, you have a good food. If the last attempt at "better" made the dog sick, I think you have your answer.

ProPlan gets bashed on dog food websites because of a couple of unpopular ingredients, not because of hard scientific data showing that other foods are better. Many, many breeders, trainers, and others who work or show dogs have had a whole lot of success with that particular food. That would be good enough for me.

I feed the dogs Eukanuba Premium Performance Sporting. It's for very active dogs, but in other ways, it's a similar food to ProPlan, and there are similar criticisms (contains corn, byproducts, etc.). My dogs are shiny, happy, and have boundless energy, and there are a huge number of very experienced people feeding Eukanuba products very happily.

Do I think sometimes that a boutique brand might be better? Yes. But then I look at the dogs and I think, "What am I expecting to improve here?" And then I go pick up another bag of the same stuff. If I want to change things up or give them a higher ratio of protein, I'll cook 'em some chicken or eggs to give in addition to the Eukanuba.


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

You are wanting to change your puppy to an adult formula. You also say your puppy is itching - which may or may not be the food. If the itching is caused by the food - then she is not "thriving" on that food. You're currently feeding a formula that contains wheat, corn and unnamed animal fats and unnamed animal digest. Some of those ingredients may or may not be causing the itching problem. IMO, it's worth a little more effort to try finding a formula without these ingredients to see how your dog does on it for a few months. The Blue Buffalo didn't work for your puppy, but that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of others that may. You mention shopping at Petsmart. It might be worth taking a look at the Avoderm brand of formulas.


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## jmamom (Dec 3, 2009)

MyBentley said:


> You are wanting to change your puppy to an adult formula. You also say your puppy is itching - which may or may not be the food. If the itching is caused by the food - then she is not "thriving" on that food. You're currently feeding a formula that contains wheat, corn and unnamed animal fats and unnamed animal digest. Some of those ingredients may or may not be causing the itching problem. IMO, it's worth a little more effort to try finding a formula without these ingredients to see how your dog does on it for a few months. The Blue Buffalo didn't work for your puppy, but that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of others that may. You mention shopping at Petsmart. It might be worth taking a look at the Avoderm brand of formulas.


Thanks, I'll look into it!!!!


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

I've been hearing for soem time all the talk about the quality of Wellness having gone down. And it probably has from what it once was, I have no idea. But I've considered switching and we tried TOTW ended up giving it to a local shelter, Innova has too many calories. And really...the firstthing people remark n when they see Tinkerbell is her coat, she's so soft and so beautiful, you must bathe and brush her a lot. Nope I try to get her a bath every 3-4 months but sometimes its 6 months. she doesn't like to be brushed so we don't, I don't clean her ears because they don't need it, she's thriving on it, so why change. Not to mention she loves it, and she is very picky.

So don't worry about what your feeding as long as it works.


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

Wellness is a FANTASTIC food. probably one of the top 10 best processed foods you can buy.
everyone has their own opinion and their favorite brands, but don't let that stop you from finding yours.


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## WLR (May 11, 2008)

tippykayak said:


> I think a lot of what you may hear about "corn allergies" is nonsense and not based in science. .


======================================================
Nyet !!!
*Corn allergies are real and sometimes violent*.
Dudley my pit/terrier mix that died last year after surgery was having 4 to 6 seizures a month untill I got him off Pro Plan which has corn gluetin.
He was virtually seizure free for 9 months untill I gave him half a Nathans hot dog, and 5am the next morning he had a seizure. First chance I had to look at the ingredients guess what was there?
Corn gluetin, and thats enough science to convince me.


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## jmamom (Dec 3, 2009)

Well, I decided to give the Wellness a try the other day. I added a handful (a small one, really!) to her dinner and 3 hours later - loose stool. I haven't added it since and she's been normal. I might try one more time, but its not looking good.:no:


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

WLR said:


> ======================================================
> Nyet !!!
> *Corn allergies are real and sometimes violent*.
> Dudley my pit/terrier mix that died last year after surgery was having 4 to 6 seizures a month untill I got him off Pro Plan which has corn gluetin.
> ...


It COULD have been corn, or it could have been one of a dozen other ingredients shared by those two items. It also could have been pure coincidence and unrelated to food. Your personal experience doesn't shed scientific light on the role of corn gluten in a dog's nutrition; what you experienced doesn't necessarily apply to anybody else.

Virtually seizure free means that the seizures were happening despite the dog's being on a gluten free diet, right? So the seizures, even if they were influenced by the gluten (which can't be proven), weren't caused by it.

My guess would be that the seizures were electrolyte influenced and that the dog was sensitive to becoming hypernatremic. Salt-imbalance seizures are well-documented in dogs, as opposed to gluten-mediated seizures. ProPlan may have had more salt than what you switched him to, and the hot dog set him off. There are many other common ingredients between dog food and hot dogs that could be responsible.

I feel weird even disagreeing with you, since your personal experience was clearly so awful and you clearly feel so sure it was the gluten. Empirically, though, you can't say for sure, and it's not as likely a culprit as other things.

It could have been the corn, and you might be absolutely right, but based on what you've said, you can't be sure, and you haven't ruled out other things that are more likely.

That said, I'm so, so sorry that your dog had such a debilitating condition. It must have been simply awful not to be able to control those seizures and to lose him that way.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

jmamom said:


> Well, I decided to give the Wellness a try the other day. I added a handful (a small one, really!) to her dinner and 3 hours later - loose stool. I haven't added it since and she's been normal. I might try one more time, but its not looking good.:no:


Eek! Why keep trying when it makes the dog sick? Wellness may look "better" to some people on paper, but the equation is really simple when the dog gets sick every time you give it to her.


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## jmamom (Dec 3, 2009)

tippykayak said:


> Eek! Why keep trying when it makes the dog sick? Wellness may look "better" to some people on paper, but the equation is really simple when the dog gets sick every time you give it to her.


Not sure if it was the food - she also had a marrow bone that day - could have been that. So, I want to try it one more time, and keep all other things out of the equation. I just want her to feel the best she can , and with the itchy skin and now she also has a yeast infection in her ears, I would love to see if a corn, wheat and soy free diet makes any difference. But first, I need to find a food that her tummy can tolerate. I have the time and I can afford it, so I'll keep trying. But I will take it very slowly - I won't cause her pain either. At the first sign of tummy upset, I'll stop that food and wait a few weeks before I try anything else. I really just feel like the right thing is out there, I just need to be patient.
I really do appreciate all the input - pro and con. I take everyone's opinions to heart and think of them when I'm making choices, so thank you!!!!


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## marieb (Mar 24, 2008)

I know all dogs are different, but my dog never did well on Wellness, I switched her slowly and gave her time to acclimate to it. I kept waiting and waiting for her to adjust and for her loose stools to go away - eventually I realized maybe the food wasn't working out (she also had horrible gas) so I switched her and she's been fine since ... 

I would also be a bit leery of Wellness since they've been bought out by wellpet ...


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

jmamom said:


> Not sure if it was the food - she also had a marrow bone that day - could have been that. So, I want to try it one more time, and keep all other things out of the equation. I just want her to feel the best she can , and with the itchy skin and now she also has a yeast infection in her ears, I would love to see if a corn, wheat and soy free diet makes any difference. But first, I need to find a food that her tummy can tolerate. I have the time and I can afford it, so I'll keep trying. But I will take it very slowly - I won't cause her pain either. At the first sign of tummy upset, I'll stop that food and wait a few weeks before I try anything else. I really just feel like the right thing is out there, I just need to be patient.
> I really do appreciate all the input - pro and con. I take everyone's opinions to heart and think of them when I'm making choices, so thank you!!!!


Oh, OK. That makes sense. I definitely don't want to come across as judging you, and I'm afraid the previous post did. Definitely not judgment here, just strong feelings about the way foods are sometimes classified as "better."


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## jmamom (Dec 3, 2009)

tippykayak said:


> Oh, OK. That makes sense. I definitely don't want to come across as judging you, and I'm afraid the previous post did. Definitely not judgment here, just strong feelings about the way foods are sometimes classified as "better."


Oh, I never felt judged, and you're just saying what part of my mind is already thinking. 
What truly astounds me, is that with all the crap she ingests (grass, mud, sticks, leaves,cat poop, crumbs, etc), the thing that upsets her tummy is "high quality" dog food.:doh:


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## luvgolds (May 20, 2009)

Just thought I'd share my Wellness experience. We decided to switch Harley off Artemis large breed puppy to Wellness Core original formula. Around the same time we slowly started switching him, the change of seasons to spring occurred, and he started having major allergy symptoms. We are now in the process of figuring out what happened (blood work, etc) and as far as I'm concerned the food is definitely a potential in addition to season allergies. We switched him back to the Artemis - he's back on a full week now - and his symptoms do seem to be easing up. 

It seemed like a great food to us, and I cannot figure out what he could be allergic to in it by doing a side-by-side comparison to Artemis, but you never can tell. Hopefully we'll soon know for sure if it was the food or a seasonal allergy - especially since we are ready to get him on an adult food!


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## Goldilocks (Jun 3, 2007)

luvgolds said:


> Just thought I'd share my Wellness experience. We decided to switch Harley off Artemis large breed puppy to Wellness Core original formula. Around the same time we slowly started switching him, the change of seasons to spring occurred, and he started having major allergy symptoms. We are now in the process of figuring out what happened (blood work, etc) and as far as I'm concerned the food is definitely a potential in addition to season allergies. We switched him back to the Artemis - he's back on a full week now - and his symptoms do seem to be easing up.
> 
> It seemed like a great food to us, and I cannot figure out what he could be allergic to in it by doing a side-by-side comparison to Artemis, but you never can tell. Hopefully we'll soon know for sure if it was the food or a seasonal allergy - especially since we are ready to get him on an adult food!



Cooper has been eating Orijen for many years now. At one point my brother switched him to Wellness Core and he had a horrible allergic reaction to it as well. He had full body hotspots - it was just unbelievable. They were even between his pads on his feet. 

He was fine and has continued to be fine while on Orijen. My brother never ever switches now. He won't even rotate through the Orijen formulas - just buys the adult formula. I am stumped as to what would cause that reaction in the Wellness.


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## maquignon (Dec 23, 2009)

I would not feed anything that is made at the Diamond Plant: Wellness (made at several plants including Diamond), Natural Balance, Solid Gold, Canidae, Chicken Soup, Taste of the Wild

I like Blue Buffalo, Pinnacle, Castor & Pollux, AvoDerm, Dogswell and Halo

http://www.parispoodles.com/Food.html

http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/articles/risk-ingredients-not-listed-on-pet-food-labels.html


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## unclelar (Oct 10, 2009)

maquignon said:


> I would not feed anything that is made at the Diamond Plant: Wellness (made at several plants including Diamond), Natural Balance, Solid Gold, Canidae, Chicken Soup, Taste of the Wild
> 
> I like Blue Buffalo, Pinnacle, Castor & Pollux, AvoDerm, Dogswell and Halo
> 
> ...


I am confused. The top web site puts wellness in the approved and doesn't list a couple of the others. I use wellness core low fat and it has done great for my two. Buddy is now at an athletic 76 lbs and Lady is at 82.(both started at 94lbs) Coats are wonderful, no allergic reactions. After a long time reading about different foods, I have come to believe that when changing food or diet in dogs or people we go through a "detox" period and can feel and look horrible but after a time the quality food will improve our dogs or our health. So what can be thought of as a allergic reaction may be healthy unless it doesn't stop.


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## K9 Passion (Jan 2, 2009)

LOVEisGOLDEN said:


> the Professional is very cheap, but a high quality kibble.


How does "cheap" & "high quality" go hand-in-hand?  

High quality foods are not cheap, by any means. :no:


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

unclelar said:


> I am confused. The top web site puts wellness in the approved and doesn't list a couple of the others. I use wellness core low fat and it has done great for my two. Buddy is now at an athletic 76 lbs and Lady is at 82.(both started at 94lbs) Coats are wonderful, no allergic reactions. After a long time reading about different foods, I have come to believe that when changing food or diet in dogs or people we go through a "detox" period and can feel and look horrible but after a time the quality food will improve our dogs or our health. So what can be thought of as a allergic reaction may be healthy unless it doesn't stop.


 
If you are referring to the dog food analysis site, I would not at all classify it as a top site. It is not run or evaluated by canine nutritionists. Their criteria seems to be grain free... period. While grain free can be a great food for some, high protein and grain free are not necessarily what's best for many pets. There are many quality foods which contain grain. Also, with the great flux in the food marketplace, I would want to research each company I'm interested in..... what their recall history is, whether or not they have their own manufacturing plant (if not, who makes their food), as well as their ingredients/ nutritional analysis. Personally, our springer does very well on the Fromm 4-star line ( WITH grains), our goldens rotate thru the Fromm, Acana ( grain free), Innova, and NOW. 

We used Wellness Core Reduced Fat several years when the goldens were dieting with success. I also used the Eagle Pack Holistic line with the whole crew. However, after both EP and Wellness were sold to Berwin Industries and then put under the WellPet umbrella with manufacturing split between several different places ( including Diamond), our dogs had a real problem with the EP. Luckily, we found Fromm about that time and have been very pleased.


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## unclelar (Oct 10, 2009)

I was referring to the http://www.parispoodles.com/Food.html site. It is Whole Dog Journal's Food List approved foods for 2009 which list wellness as an approved food. 
A year ago I would have said that the dog food analysis site was as close to gospel as anything out there. After reading more, and additional study not so much. My two do great on the Low Fat grain free but I know I will eventually want to move them on to something to maintain their weight. I am not necessarily a grain free as some dogs do great on foods with grains, I just want to do what works best for my masters, I mean dogs.

I have tried Fromms and from what I know think it is a great company and has a high quality food and may go try it again Lady needs to lose about 7 more lbs first. 
I must say I even did what my vet said and tried Science Diet Lite and had two starving dogs that is when I changed to Wellness.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

unclelar said:


> I was referring to the http://www.parispoodles.com/Food.html site. It is Whole Dog Journal's Food List approved foods for 2009 which list wellness as an approved food.
> A year ago I would have said that the dog food analysis site was as close to gospel as anything out there. After reading more, and additional study not so much. My two do great on the Low Fat grain free but I know I will eventually want to move them on to something to maintain their weight. I am not necessarily a grain free as some dogs do great on foods with grains, I just want to do what works best for my masters, I mean dogs.
> 
> I have tried Fromms and from what I know think it is a great company and has a high quality food and may go try it again Lady needs to lose about 7 more lbs first.
> I must say I even did what my vet said and tried Science Diet Lite and had two starving dogs that is when I changed to Wellness.


 
Sorry about that. Don't know why I didn't pick up on your reference. Senior moment I guess. The pet food industry seems to be a moving target in today's world of take overs, formula changes, etc. Marion Nestle has a new book coming out about the industry in the next month or so which should be really interesting. She is a voice I really respect. http://www.foodpolitics.com/about/

BTW, glad you got off the SD... YUCK!


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## unclelar (Oct 10, 2009)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Sorry about that. Don't know why I didn't pick up on your reference. Senior moment I guess. The pet food industry seems to be a moving target in today's world of take overs, formula changes, etc. Marion Nestle has a new book coming out about the industry in the next month or so which should be really interesting. She is a voice I really respect. http://www.foodpolitics.com/about/
> 
> BTW, glad you got off the SD... YUCK!


My senior moments are turning in to senior sessions. 
Dog Food is about big money, and to paraphrase Daniel Lapin, Money is ok if it is earned through service. 

That is one of the things I like about Fromms, it is family owned, and has been forever, with a dedication to serving.

I will try and read some Ms Nestle's books. In worrying about my dogs I found a lot of information on nutrition and have tried to start eating better personally. I have changed my eating and lost a little over 40lbs. I never went on a diet because that means restrictions I just wanted to make better choices for myself and my dogs. I must admit that I have added grain to my diet but leave the corn alone for the most part, however with summer an ear of corn dripping with butter may get the better of me at some point.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Wouldn't low-fat, grain free food have to be extraordinarily high in protein, and wouldn't that put the kidneys at risk, especially in older dogs?

Or do some of these "grain free" foods make up the bulk with other carb sources like potato?


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## damita (Jun 4, 2009)

tippykayak said:


> Wouldn't low-fat, grain free food have to be extraordinarily high in protein, and wouldn't that put the kidneys at risk, especially in older dogs?
> 
> Or do some of these "grain free" foods make up the bulk with other carb sources like potato?


I thought the kidney thing was a myth? Do you have any recent reports or articles to give this any credit? Not saying high protien is good for dogs with compromised kidneys but that high protien will NOT cause kidney problems? It was my understanding that the sources of protien were more suspect than the levels - I will see if I can find the report I read.


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## damita (Jun 4, 2009)

*Does high protein cause kidney disease?* 
No. This myth probably started because, in the past, patients with kidney disease were commonly placed on low-protein (and thus low-nitrogen) diets. Today, we often put them on a diet that is not necessarily very low in protein, but instead contains protein that is more digestible (therefore producing fewer nitrogen by-products). These diet changes are made merely because damaged kidneys may not be able to handle the excess nitrogen efficiently. In pets with existing kidney problems, nitrogen can become too high in the bloodstream which can harm other tissues. Unless your veterinarian has told you your pet has a kidney problem that is severe enough to adjust the protein intake, you can feed your pet a normal amount of protein without worrying about "damaging" or "stressing" your pet's kidneys. Also, keep in mind the fact that you are not "saving" your pet's kidneys by feeding a low-protein diet. 
[ Back to Top ] from http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?dept_id=0&siteid=12&acatid=284&aid=459

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/44940

This link has a ton of articles written by vets and other professionals
http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneyprotein.html


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

damita said:


> I thought the kidney thing was a myth? Do you have any recent reports or articles to give this any credit? Not saying high protien is good for dogs with compromised kidneys but that high protien will NOT cause kidney problems? It was my understanding that the sources of protien were more suspect than the levels - I will see if I can find the report I read.


Sorry - I should have been clearer. High protein is generally fine for healthy adult dogs, but if there's anything wrong with the kidneys, a high protein diet can cause big problems. In both dogs and people, kidney functions can decline with age, making a high protein diet riskier as the dog gets older.

So yes, it was incorrect of me to say that it put the kidneys directly at risk. What I should have said is that in an older dog, it could cause problems as the kidneys decline with age and can't keep up with the protein intake. The elevated blood urea nitrogen and creatinine could then in turn cause damage to the kidneys (and other body systems).

Thanks for catching that!


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## unclelar (Oct 10, 2009)

tippykayak said:


> Wouldn't low-fat, grain free food have to be extraordinarily high in protein, and wouldn't that put the kidneys at risk, especially in older dogs?
> 
> Or do some of these "grain free" foods make up the bulk with other carb sources like potato?


I think it depends on the food, some replace it with carbs such as potato. One of the things I learned is that the % of protein, fat or carbs can be misleading I did a spreadsheet (and yes I was that anal) looking at the actual grams of protein, fat and carbs in several different foods per required feeding to a specific caloric intake. I think that all dogs should have a balance diet appropriate to there age and health. That is appropriate in protein, fat, carb and fiber. I have chosen temporarily chosen to lower the fat content and opt for higher protein and carbs because it allows me to feed high higher volume to a specific calorie. (I base this on a gram of protein or carb is 4 calories and a gram is fat is 9)

I must note that some add "Cellulose Powder" which adds to the carb count but actually is neutral as a gram of fiber negates a gram of carb so there is a difference between Calories per gram of food, and usable calories. My two seem to know this and while volume was up satisfaction was zero, can you say Science Diet lite. 

As with human food quality of ingredients and variety to insure proper intake of vitamins and minerals and appropriate fats is extremely important. In this day of processing and genetic manipulation what corn, rice or oats provided 50 years ago may not be what we get today it might be better or it could be incomplete. Even our meat and poultry are being manipulated to grow faster to get to market quicker and cheaper. We all put our trust in the company that provides the food.


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