# Trammin Kennels, Ukraine, who are they?



## GoldenHenry (Apr 29, 2020)

My husband and I have been researching and seeking out the right breeder for our next Golden puppy and have been leaning towards an English cream colored. We have found many breeders in Texas and all of them are sired by the same dog or at least the same kennel, out of The Ukraine, Trammin Kennels. The information on the genetics is limited due to them being imported. Does anyone know anything about them and their dogs? Did they do rounds in Texas or maybe other states have seen this too? The breeders here in Texas that use these dogs for breeding have also been really terrible about communicating and answering calls, emails or texts.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Red flags red flags red flags
Personally, I would avoid it like the plague.
Let go of the English cream thing and find a reputable breeder.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Tramin is a commercial kennel based out of Ukraine. They are known to be a constant source for any person with cash to purchase breeding dogs to be imported to the US. Over the last several years she has partnered with a person in the US of questionable charcter to act as her agent here. 

Though the dogs may or may not be quality, the Tramin dogs often land in very questionable breeding programs since money seems to be the only requirement to purchase these dogs. They very rarely have the full and verifiable health certifications dogs being bred in the US should have.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

*GoldenHenry-*you may want to look through this thread.









Ethical "English Creme" breeders


In the last 24 hours I've been contacted by four different people looking for English Creme/European/white/light Goldens. I referred them to a couple friends who breed light dogs. But I'd like to create a list of ethical breeders all over the country who breed light dogs, or European dogs. You...




www.goldenretrieverforum.com


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## Deepbluebay (Apr 9, 2020)

K9-Design said:


> Red flags red flags red flags
> Personally, I would avoid it like the plague.
> Let go of the English cream thing and find a reputable breeder.


I could not agree with you more. There is a breeder, located in Russia, who is breeding her females much more often than is healthy to the dog.
Then the pups are being flown to U.S
where the breeder sells pups ($2500-3000) through a local " breeder" in
my area.
There has been a huge increase in
the number of prospective buyers wanting " English Creams".And
while it is only my personal opinion, I'm
afraid that in 8-10 years, we will see
an even greater amount of health problems in retrievers bc of inbreeding, inconsistencies in record
keeping of dams and sires, etc.This
is also true of people breeding in
Croatia and surrounding countries.
Again,my opinion but this practice is a dangerous but profitable
" puppy mill" and it is flourishing.


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## GoldenHenry (Apr 29, 2020)

Eeek! The ethics, or lack of, are concerning. Thank you for all of the information everyone!


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## Deepbluebay (Apr 9, 2020)

LJack said:


> Tramin is a commercial kennel based out of Ukraine. They are known to be a constant source for any person with cash to purchase breeding dogs to be imported to the US. Over the last several years she has partnered with a person in the US of questionable charcter to act as her agent here.
> 
> Though the dogs may or may not be quality, the Tramin dogs often land in very questionable breeding programs since money seems to be the only requirement to purchase these dogs. They very rarely have the full and verifiable health certifications dogs being bred in the US should have.


Could not agree more with your opinion of this kennel. From what I know of them, yes, stay away.


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## Deepbluebay (Apr 9, 2020)

One more thing. I am quite familiar with the woman who this kennel uses in the US and she is extremely questionable. I would leave more info if I could,right now I can not. But really,check her out. There is probably a great deal of info on these two on your local Facebook under Golden Retriever puppies. Which is,btw, not allowed by FB, but they continue to advertise pups for sale that are born in Ukraine.


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## BrianO (Apr 7, 2016)

Do you think any of these European kennels is shipping off their best quality dogs to unseen overseas buyers?


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

yeah... that is the best question. 
Answer is obvious.


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## Deb Carlson (Oct 11, 2020)

GoldenHenry said:


> My husband and I have been researching and seeking out the right breeder for our next Golden puppy and have been leaning towards an English cream colored. We have found many breeders in Texas and all of them are sired by the same dog or at least the same kennel, out of The Ukraine, Trammin Kennels. The information on the genetics is limited due to them being imported. Does anyone know anything about them and their dogs? Did they do rounds in Texas or maybe other states have seen this too? The breeders here in Texas that use these dogs for breeding have also been really terrible about communicating and answering calls, emails or texts.


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## Deb Carlson (Oct 11, 2020)

I am getting my puppy from Open Range Retrievers in Lamar, Nebraska. The father is from the Tramin line from Ukraine. His name is Tramin Legolas. He is a triple International Champion and he is beautiful. The owner is Shay Martin.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Unfortunately as is common with Tramin line dogs Tramin Legolas does not have any of the full and verifiable health certifications dog in the US should have. There is no record for him on OFA. His foreign hip and elbow scores are likely not valid as in Europe they are routinely done way before the 24 month age that is the standard in the US. Also no heart certification by a cardiologist or up to date eye exam.


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## JulesAK (Jun 6, 2010)

Looked at the dogs on the website. Just asking a question but is that level of curl/wave in a coat acceptable for showing?
Thanks.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

This dog (Nevaeh) at Open Range is a great example of why underage foreign health tests need to be redone to meet the US standard. She was tested in Eastern Europe at or before 15 months of age and was reported to have A/A hips which is the best score. Then at 3 years of age, OFA returned a failing grade of borderline. This is a huge change from the best score in Europe to not passing in the US. Our testing is more stringent in general and especially in regards to the maturity of the dog when it comes to hip and elbow certifications. Good on the breeder for making her failing hip status public.

















This girl has since produced this borderline hip rating in a preliminary report from OFA on her only health tested puppy verifiable on OFA.

This breeder also clearly states on their webpage that they follow the GRCA Code of Ethics and that statement is demonstrably untrue. The GCRA CoE states OFA or PennHIP at or after 24 moths is acceptable for hips and OFA at or after 24 months is acceptable for elbows. Underage and Foreign organization are not meeting those standard.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I suspect, since k9data still had (I changed it) the A/A and 0/0 on there and the owner has input data there before, it was important to the 'breeding program' that the AA was still out there somewhere. OFA told me they cannot verify most of the ones submitted for listing so cannot list them.


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

I would just like to say that there are reputable breeders in Croatia. Please don't target all breeders in that country with the same brush (as we would say) However these breeders are very unlikely to export to the US, just as many UK breeders won't either. Anne


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

I have no idea why anyone would let color be their main motivation in Golden selection. I love the purple accent on the new Rolls Royce Ghost because purple is one of my favorite colors. However, I would not buy a purple Yugo. There are more important factors than color when buying a car or a Golden.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

I've been saying for a long time. I would not consider Goldens from Ukraine, Romania Russia and Croatia. There may be a few in those countries doing the right things but far and few between it seems and they likely wont export to places like the US. They breed for color (English Cream) poor health testing most of the time and always appear to be mass production kennels for endless supply to the US for people who want ready to breed English Cream dogs to insta-start a breeding program. It's unfortunate, but is the case FAR more then not. Oh and A LOT of those kennels breed dogs WAY underage, sometimes even less then a year old.


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## Deepbluebay (Apr 9, 2020)

Let me look it up and I will let you know the name.


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## Deepbluebay (Apr 9, 2020)

They definitely export to US though.


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## ALH (Mar 19, 2021)

Deb Carlson said:


> I am getting my puppy from Open Range Retrievers in Lamar, Nebraska. The father is from the Tramin line from Ukraine. His name is Tramin Legolas. He is a triple International Champion and he is beautiful. The owner is Shay Martin.


How is your dog doing thus far? Age?


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## Alexia golden sun (Oct 11, 2021)

GoldenHenry said:


> My husband and I have been researching and seeking out the right breeder for our next Golden puppy and have been leaning towards an English cream colored. We have found many breeders in Texas and all of them are sired by the same dog or at least the same kennel, out of The Ukraine, Trammin Kennels. The information on the genetics is limited due to them being imported. Does anyone know anything about them and their dogs? Did they do rounds in Texas or maybe other states have seen this too? The breeders here in Texas that use these dogs for breeding have also been really terrible about communicating and answering calls, emails or texts.


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## Alexia golden sun (Oct 11, 2021)

Yes be careful of this breeder and her middle person Melissa Alexandria in Wisconsin. She is her partner and she makes 25% on every sale. You have to go through her only to get a Tramin dog. She brags on the phone and in emails that they are the best and biggest Goldens which is not in fact true. I personally have owned Tramin dogs and nothing how she describes at all whatsoever. Ukraine breeders seem to do a lot of scams to the USA buyers. Beware is all I can say. I am running into weirdness with another breeder there as we speak with also wanting answers and advice. 😟 I think I will switch counties to make my purchase. Good Luck to you!


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## Alexia golden sun (Oct 11, 2021)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> I've been saying for a long time. I would not consider Goldens from Ukraine, Romania Russia and Croatia. There may be a few in those countries doing the right things but far and few between it seems and they likely wont export to places like the US. They breed for color (English Cream) poor health testing most of the time and always appear to be mass production kennels for endless supply to the US for people who want ready to breed English Cream dogs to insta-start a breeding program. It's unfortunate, but is the case FAR more then not. Oh and A LOT of those kennels breed dogs WAY underage, sometimes even less then a year old.


I fully agree with you. 😁👍


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## MintChip (Feb 26, 2021)

Golden retrievers evacuated from Ukraine to Moldova | 🇲🇩 Over 120 golden retrievers have been evacuated from the Ukrainian city of Odesa to Chișinău, the capital of Moldova. Their owners don't know how long... | By Euronews English | Facebook


၁သန်း views, ၁.၂သောင်း likes, ၇.၉ထောင် loves, ၅.၉ထောင် comments, ၈ထောင် shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Euronews English: 🇲🇩 Over 120 golden retrievers have been evacuated from the Ukrainian city...




fb.watch





So comment section is a mess and someone mentioned E lena U shan and research linked me to this kennel.

Apparently this kennel is responsible for many Ukrainian exports of the "English Cremes."
What frightens me is it looks like 120 adults?? Straight up looks like a puppy mill.


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## Beast mode (10 mo ago)

I am getting my puppy from Open Range Retrievers in Lamar, Nebraska. The father is from the Tramin line from Ukraine. His name is Tramin Legolas. He is a triple International Champion and he is beautiful. The owner is Shay Martin.


Hi-

I happened to stumble on this tread and I too have a puppy from Shay who was probably born around the same time as yours (July 2019). I am curious how your puppy is doing?? Any health issues that have come up?


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## Alexia golden sun (Oct 11, 2021)

GoldenHenry said:


> My husband and I have been researching and seeking out the right breeder for our next Golden puppy and have been leaning towards an English cream colored. We have found many breeders in Texas and all of them are sired by the same dog or at least the same kennel, out of The Ukraine, Trammin Kennels. The information on the genetics is limited due to them being imported. Does anyone know anything about them and their dogs? Did they do rounds in Texas or maybe other states have seen this too? The breeders here in Texas that use these dogs for breeding have also been really terrible about communicating and answering calls, emails or texts.


Super red flags, super really super red flags! This lady sells her dogs for like $18,000-$24,000 for one dog. It’s honestly seriously nothing but a scam. There is someone in North Carolina that selling three of those dogs because her mom has to have multiple surgeries if you’re wanting a Tramin Dog. I seen them on puppies.com website.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

This thread is being closed while a reported post is reviewed for rule violations.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

I am opening this thread back up to replies. However, if continued rule violations occur, it will be permanently closed.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

How To Recognize Ethical Breeders – Reputable Breeders, Part 1


“Are these ethical breeders?” In this post, I discuss different types of breeders and how to know if they are ethical… or not. - The Canine Chasm




thecaninechasm.com


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

This thread is being closed while reported posts are reviewed for rule violations.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

The Mod team has voted to permanently close this thread.


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