# I'd like to hear from owners who had growling and snapping puppies



## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Welcome to you and Finn, he's adorable. 

I'm in NC also, I'm over on the Coast. 

I haven't had a puppy in almost 20 years, so I'll let the members who have pups answer your question. 

Enjoy the forum.


----------



## FinnmccoolsMom (Jul 7, 2015)

Thank you for the welcome Carolina Mom! Sorry for all the typos ? I'm just learning how to post on my phone!!?


----------



## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Kenzie was a little monster as a puppy. Most of my t-shirts had holes in them and my arms were always scratched and bitten.
She is 3 now and doesn't do any of that anymore. I took her to a local concert in the park last week and she was swarmed by little kids. She is very gentle with kids and sort of creeps/scoots to get closer to them. She can still play a bit rough with me, but I'm always amazed at how gentle she is with kids.


----------



## Bwilson (Mar 25, 2014)

River is not 2 yet and she would growl and snap at times when she was younger and I was taking her away from what she wanted to do. Did redirecting with toys something noicey. Sounds like puppy temper tantrum but they use there mouth to know displeasure and noice. You can try an aah aah noice or a whelp to show displeasure. We have a younger daughter and never have had any issues directed at her. She is older now and has grown out of this phase. You can always keep on a short lead to move him on into another direction. Moving fast will make him have to focus on where we are going and what are we doing.


----------



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm sorry to welcome you to the forum for such unhappy circumstances. I went through puppy issues that were similar, although not identical to yours, about 5 or 6 years ago with a puppy I adored, Duncan. I worked with Dr. Gerard Flannigan out of Charlotte, NC who is a certified veterinary behaviorist and it was helpful to have his input. I did not consult him till my dog was over a year old, so hopefully you are catching things early enough by getting serious right away. 

My puppy was from what would generally be considered a reputable breeder and was from a large litter, I don't know how much true socialization he had with young children before he came home at 8 weeks because the breeder was an older, divorced woman with multiple dogs and involved with rescue etc. 

At the time, my 3 girls were right around 3, 7 and 12. They are pretty typical girls, they can be loud and busy/active but are not rough and I was very good about supervising interactions and was very active with obedience training from the beginning with our puppy. I am the dog lover in the family, this puppy was for me, not for the kids, if that makes sense. This was not my first Golden Retriever and I had raised the first one when my oldest daughter was 2 years old. I read a lot and had a clue about the ups and downs of having a retriever.

I was pretty sure I was doing everything right with the puppy, worked hard on socializing etc. He went with me to the bus stop every afternoon to get the kids and let strange kids give him treats etc. He learned early to down/stay and 'wait' to eat his food until he was released and could even do that for the 3 year old to feed him. We took puppy classes from the beginning and he had good manners. Unfortunately it was not enough. 

I believe the first issue I recognized he was about 14 weeks old. My middle daughter was setting the table for dinner one night while I cooked and the puppy put his feet up on the kitchen table to see what was going on. She put her hands on his shoulders to push him off and told him "no." He whirled on her with a snarl (not a snap but a scary snarl) and scared the daylights out of her. I saw the whole thing happen. I now know that is not an unexpected response from a dog, she should not have touched him like that. However at the time, it was pretty unnerving and I realized that although he had not bitten her, it was a big warning. The interesting part is that other than this one incident he never actually snapped at my children. I was very careful that they knew not pick him up etc.

I stepped up the obedience training and tried to make sure he was getting plenty of exercise and play dates with neighbor dogs. We continued to have sporadic incidents no matter how careful I tried to be about managing the children and the puppy. I guess my careful supervision paid off because incidents were very few and far between. 

He absolutely loved some people, but in hindsight I see he was not the 'love people' typical golden retriever. Some strangers he was downright wary of. He did not have a love for strange children especially and did not enjoy being touched by them. I live in a suburban neighborhood with houses close together and my kids have friends in and out all the time. I knew that I could manage some things, but there was no way I could guarantee that I wouldn't be out of sight doing laundry and end up with half a dozen kids in my house at the drop of a hat before I could be present to supervise. I had to have a dog I could trust within reason. 

The incidents that were most worrying were my puppy's stiffening body posture and the few times I heard him growl at a child who wanted to pet him. He behaved this way with teenagers also. There were some adult visitors who clearly made him nervous but looking back, I think he was too intimidated to try to bully them. I think it was with kids that he felt he could try to show bluster. These incidents happened when I was right there trying to "supervise" the interaction. Did I cause a problem because I was right there and undoubtedly tense? Maybe. I'll never know for sure. 

One day I had out of town guests and in spite of warning the children to leave the dog alone, that he had been neutered several days prior (he was about 15 months old) and probably not feeling 100% (it had been several days so it was not like he was just returned from the vet) their 11 year old son tried to pet my dog who was lying in a corner and was nipped hard enough to break skin on his palm and draw blood. 

I was devastated. That was the point that I consulted Dr. Flannigan and we went over the whole behavior history and he met my dog in person. He was not encouraging. He told me that he saw many cases of puppies showing owner directed aggression (this was what he labeled it) from a fairly early age and that some puppies would grow out of it, but that there were just as many who would not. He told me that I could not ever trust my dog around kids based on what I had shared and what he observed.

He suggested 'Nothing In Life is Free' and although I was following it for the most part, I did work harder on using it 100% of the time. I couldn't imagine how I was going to have a family dog who couldn't really be around children, but I knew I needed to try to figure something out. Could I figure out a way to keep him gated in our open house so that he was with us but not accessible to kids who came in to play? It didn't sound like much of a life for him. I loved him so much and I was raised that animals are not disposable. I figured I would try to see what I could do to make it work. I cried a million tears and my husband said he would support my choices.

It wasn't long until we had relatives visiting for several days. I was careful, warned everyone about what was going on and kept the dog with me or crated/gated. One evening we went out to dinner and about 10 of us came in through the garage door into the kitchen. My dog greeted us nicely and wandered around to different people until he came to my niece who is a mild, sweet girl of about 7 or 8 at the time. I had already warned her not to pet him unless he came up to her and she was very good. I watched as he approached her and she said "Hi Duncan" in a happy voice and scratched his shoulder. I watched in disbelief as he made the ugliest lip curl at her. I quickly put him outside and asked her if he had made a mean face at her and she said yes. It wasn't my imagination. It really happened.

I had been in contact all along with Duncan's breeder and she was aware of what was going on and what I had been doing to deal with and correct it. My heart was broken, I knew that Duncan was going to have to go back to her. 

I explained that she may never see the type of behavior that I had dealt with because it was sporadic and only happened with children. I stressed over and over that if she ever re-homed him it needed to be in a home without children and they needed to understand that he couldn't be trusted with kids ever. We have occasional contact and she assures me he is well and living with her ex-husband, it's just the two of them. 

Giving that dog up was one of the absolute hardest things I have ever done in my life (and I'm 46 years old and have been through some crap in my time). I am 100% certain that I did the right thing for the dog and for my family and for any child who visited my home. 

In hindsight, I can see that it was the dog's personality and temperament. Mostly inherited issues that couldn't be helped. Yes, I could have done some things differently, and better but he was not the right dog for a family with children. 

I should have treated him, when he was a puppy, more like a dog and less like a human child. I was good about obedience training and not letting him up on the furniture, never feeding him people food, but I did drop everything to pet him and play with him and baby talk him etc. He never, ever showed any aggression with me, I believe I was his leader, but I do wonder if the way I gave him SO much love and attention was a trigger or a mistake. 

Dr. Flannigan emphasized that almost every client he has had comes in blaming themselves and wondering what they did wrong. He said it is not the people, it is the dog. Temperament is very inherited. I hope some of what I shared here is helpful to you, stories like this break my heart. Please feel free to message me anytime if you just need some moral support.


----------



## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

I have had issues with my Mercy having resource guarding issues when she was three to four months old. We had a personal trainer come to our house and we nipped it in the bud. However, at three years old, Mercy still growls at some dogs. She's actually improved over the last 2-3 months though. If a friendly dog is coming and it looks inevitable that they're going to meet, then I slacken the lead so Mercy feels no threat and will more likely greet the dog properly. HI think it depends on the vibes of the other dog. Hopefully, you won't have any problems with dog aggression in your puppy. He might have more of a reserved temperament, but he needs to learn that a genuine loving gesture is not a threat. Maybe holding out a treat as you pick him up. Sending good thoughts your way that you will nip this thing in the bud.


----------



## FinnmccoolsMom (Jul 7, 2015)

Thank you, Bwilson, for your advice and experience. I hope Finn grows out of his growling too, as River did. I am happier thinking of this as a temper tantrum. Our behaviorist had the same idea: she seems fairly unfazed by his behavior, which surprised me. She has millions of certificates and degrees so I feel I should trust her, but it doesn't seem right for a puppy to snarl so young. Anyway, I like to hear happy outcomes! Nolefan: thank you for your response. I am obviously worried that we might have the same road with Finn. We also have much in common: kids wanted dog, but I probably wanted him more, we live in Charlotte, I have 1000s of kids running in and out all the time. I, too, need to be able to trust Finn around kids. Keeping him from kids unless I am supervising has been easy so far, but that will change as time goes on, I am sure. So far, his growling has been limited to certain times (9 times out of 10 he is fine with it) when he is picked up, and since the kids (10 and 8) never pick him up, he has not displayed this behavior towards them. I am praying he doesn't transfer it to something else (food, leash, being moved, etc.) later. That's my big concern. As a golden, I won't be picking him up for long and really have no need to do it now, except for the training and "testing" I am doing via trainer. If I never picked him up, I would not be seeing any issues. In other respects, he is exactly like the golden I had in my 20s--mouthy, goofy, funny, happy, excitable, good with potty training and learning basic commands, etc. She never snarled at me, though. Thank you again for sharing your experiences with me.


----------



## FinnmccoolsMom (Jul 7, 2015)

Thank you, MercyMom: I hope our training will nip it in the bud too.


----------



## FinnmccoolsMom (Jul 7, 2015)

Since you all were so nice to respond to me the other day, I just wanted to give you a quick success. Today I had to pick up Finn when he was barking at 5:30 in the morning through the fence to the neighbor's dog. I couldn't let the dogs keep barking at that hour. I couldn't lure him away with treats. Yesterday in the same situation he came when I called. He's usually great with recall. But I wasn't having luck this morning --it was too exciting to see his friend at such an unusual hour! So I decided to pick him up. This is the kind of situation when he would growl me. I also didn't have a very high-value treats ? because I used them all up yesterday on clicker training ? which he loved by the way! Anyway ? he didn't growl at all! I couldn't believe it! Hopefully the tips the trainer has been giving me are working. He's going to start working with her one on one twice a week starting next week. I know we still have a long road ahead ? but I am hopeful. Thank you again for your responses.


----------



## BriGuy (Aug 31, 2010)

Have you tried putting a light drag line on him? Instead of picking him up, just lead him away. That way you can work on the picking-up issue under less exciting conditions.


----------



## FinnmccoolsMom (Jul 7, 2015)

That's a good idea. I'll try that. I like him to run free in our fenced in backyard when no other dogs are around in the next yard--but I do think I'm going to need to be more careful for a while. Sadly, my elation was short-lived. We had a terrible vet visit for his third shots. He growled at me (quietly) when I was getting him out of the car, and he growled and snarked at the vet tech after when she was holding him when he was getting his shot. We have had such a good run with no problems for awhile. I hope the one on one training twice a week training I will make a difference. I can't wait for it to start. Heartbreaking.?


----------



## Goldylover2 (May 1, 2014)

My pup snarled and eventually would try to bite us. When I would take him outside he wouldn't want to come back in the house. He would just lay on the ground. I would pick him up and he would turn his head around and try to bite me. I would take him to the park for a walk. He wouldn't jump out of the car. I would lift him in the car and he would try to snap at me. He would get possessive aggressive with food or certain items like socks, paper or something he shouldn't have in the house. He would try to get in the trash and put his paws up on the counter. He would charge my girlfriend when she would say no. One time he got a banana peel. I took what was hanging out of his mouth. But he charged my girlfriend then came at me tearing my shirt. It was like he thought he was boss in the house. At the dog park he was fine. It got real bad to the point my girlfriend was afraid of him. She wanted to get rid of him. So I found a trainer 70 miles away. He kept him a week and we went back for 60-90 minute sessions each week for seven weeks. We followed his advice and he doesn't snarl or show his teeth. And no more biting. This took a couple of months. He's turning out to be a great dog. I waited to long thinking he would grow out of it on his own. Not the case. Your pup is 3 months old and it's time to get some help now so it doesn't progress. I waited until Caleb was around 7 months old. That's probably why it kept getting worse. My first golden Ginger did nothing like this little guy did as a pup. So it was new to us.


----------



## FinnmccoolsMom (Jul 7, 2015)

Thank you for your response. I'm so glad things have worked out for your dog. I hope the training will help us too. Everyone on here is so nice. I really appreciate it.


----------



## FinnmccoolsMom (Jul 7, 2015)

I just wanted to update you all on Finn's snarling behavior. It hasn't happened since the last time I wrote. The training at home is going great. It's loads of fun for Finn and for me! Our vet says there's no need to get a referral to Flannigan yet but that's always an option if we have problems down the line. Finn adores the children and wants to be with them all the time and we have not seen any problems yet. We're not picking him up at all anymore for any reason. We have other methods to get him to do what we want to do. The trainer is having us do some handling for sensitivity with high-value treats in addition to working on obedience. My husband thinks the sensitivity training is very silly, but we do it anyway. Finn will be 15 weeks on Friday. Thank you again for all your responses!


----------

