# Great Dane Lady... new article on grains



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I found this very informative. It's a new article on her site re: grains / grain free food.



> Things to Ponder About Grain Free Diets
> I get many emails asking my opinion of the new grain-free diets on the market. These are new foods and actually a _spin-off _of the BARF- biologically appropriate raw foods movement.
> 
> The growing holistic pet food industry has much competition these days, so they are looking for ways to reinvent the wheel and here you have it, the new grain free diets!
> ...


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## wakeangel (Feb 28, 2008)

Very interesting!! Thanks for posting! I had contacted the Great Dane Lady about whether grain-free was a good idea for a dog with HD and she steered me away from them citing some of the same info in that article. I've been using her feed program for orthopedic support and the supplements you were kind enough to recommend to me and Deacon is doing really well! He LOVES the Honest Kitchen...plus they have the new Keen version that is less expensive which is great!


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## skylielover (Sep 27, 2008)

I was just reading this on her site, then you posted it ! haha


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Wow! I'll have to find that and bookmark it.


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## MaxwellSmart (Aug 11, 2008)

Fascinating. It's so confusing with all the different types of foods out there! 
Thanks so much for posting!


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

Now I'm wondering if Ike's allergies were to the soy or chicken in his previous food rather than the corn??? We eliminated them all and moved to a food without these ingredients. He loves The Honest Kitchen and Merrick Foods he's eating now but I'm wondering if I should reintroduce corn??? Just when I thought I had figured things out.... Thanks though, I need to learn.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

paula bedard said:


> Now I'm wondering if Ike's allergies were to the soy or chicken in his previous food rather than the corn??? We eliminated them all and moved to a food without these ingredients. He loves The Honest Kitchen and Merrick Foods he's eating now but I'm wondering if I should reintroduce corn??? Just when I thought I had figured things out.... Thanks though, I need to learn.


If he's doing well on the Merrick and THK, I wouldn't mess with it. My kiddos don't get corn either...... what I use doesn't have it and I'm pleased with how they are doing.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Thanks for posting this. It's a good article. I have never been on the grain-free bandwagon, and have fed the same food for several generations with great success. I've never understood the current propensity for people to be constantly switching foods. I have switched ONCE in the last 20 years or so, to one of the high-end, highly touted "holistic" foods, and it was disasterous. Once I switched back, the recovery was fairly quick, thank goodness, but the experience was enough for me to vow never to do it again.


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> If he's doing well on the Merrick and THK, I wouldn't mess with it. My kiddos don't get corn either...... what I use doesn't have it and I'm pleased with how they are doing.


I was thinking of adding frozen corn on a trial basis. I'll hold off. Ike is doing better than ever... he barely ever itches, his ears are clean, his coat looks so much better...I'd hate to change things again. 

Sam was easy. He ate 1 food his whole life with no problems.


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## K9 Passion (Jan 2, 2009)

I'm not going to participate in a grain-free debate; however, I will tell you that corn is the least digestible grain for canines. I have mathematical formulas that calculate the digestibility of proteins, grains, etc. & corn is the least digestible of all the grains. Yes, it is high in linoleic acid, which is beneficial for skin & coat; however, because it's so difficult for them to digest, they reap very little, if any, benefits from it. Mathematical equations cannot be refuted - they are fact.

It should also be known that grains do not CAUSE allergies. Some dogs may be allergic to corn (or anything), but it's caused from other things, such as the introduction of solid food at too early of an age, as one example. I could go on & on..

People have mentioned that their dogs had problems when switching to a noncommercial kibble, & there is a reason why. It was discussed, in detail, in the posted article about canine detoxification.

This is all I will say in this thread.

P.S. This article provides an excellent source of debate for this topic so I don't have to: http://www.urbancarnivore.com/uc_online/pages.cfm?ID=34


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## skylielover (Sep 27, 2008)

K9 Passion said:


> I'm not going to participate in a grain-free debate; however, I will tell you that corn is the least digestible grain for canines. I have mathematical formulas that calculate the digestibility of proteins, grains, etc. & corn is the least digestible of all the grains. Yes, it is high in linoleic acid, which is beneficial for skin & coat; however, because it's so difficult for them to digest, they reap very little, if any, benefits from it. Mathematical equations cannot be refuted - they are fact.
> 
> It should also be known that grains do not CAUSE allergies. Some dogs may be allergic to corn (or anything), but it's caused from other things, such as the introduction of solid food at too early of an age, as one example. I could go on & on..
> 
> ...


Thank you for the info. I'm trying to learn all I can about these topics. I'm not participating in any grain-free debate either, just because I don't know ...


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

I think it would be interesting to see and understand these mathimatical formulas and how they are based. I would think that the starch and protien of the corn is just as digestible as wheat or barley. The outer coating wouldn't be of course.....


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

I used to stay away from the food debates. They never affected me...then Ike's diagnosed with probable food allergies after a year of recurring ear infections and itching. All I know is that he's not itching now, so we're both happy. Wonder what's next?


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## firmground (Feb 4, 2009)

We really enjoyed this article and found your information most informative. We just wanted you to know that the link to Dr.Harvey's doesn't take you to his site but to The Great Dane Lady. So since we are big fans of Dr.Harvey's and have been using his wonderful products for years we thought we would give you the link to his site.
There is a lot of really good information on the site it is www.drharveys.com
Thank you again for your post.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Thanks for posting Betty. I'll reread when I can concentrate and not so tired. : )
Going to bed soon.


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## mcgorman (Apr 8, 2009)

I recently switched Genny to Dick Van Patten's Venison and Sweet Potato limited ingredient diet which is grain free. My thinking was that we have tried 2 different proteins already (chicken, lamb) and her symptoms have not gone away. With this food we are now eliminating grains and trying a new protein. I have been pulling my hair out trying to solve her flaky skin/ itching problem. I have tried oil supplements, oatmeal baths, and countless other suggestions and so far no change.


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

While I'm always interested in reading another perspective on dog food and nutrition, I usually don't take any one person's view as gospel.

Just did some googling about Linda Arndt - The Great Dane Lady.

While she seems to be a well-respected breeder with long experience, interest and self-study in dog nutrition; she does not seem to have any credentials or certification in the area of nutrition. Of course, that doesn't mean she doesn't have a lot of knowledge from all her activities in the field.

But again, one opinion.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

I agree with this. I think the grain-free thing is out of hand.

Personally, I think a WELL BALANCED diet, that consists of quality proteins AND grains, are important.

But, it can be taken too far. And when it is, it is usually not for the good of the pet, but for the profit of the company selling the food. In fact, I don't much care for Corn as an ingredient _at all_.

I would not consider any food that has Corn as the primary ingredient. I don't care who it is made by. Corn is a filler. Corn makes for cheap foods.

IMHO 

Again, it's all about balance.

I still think the food Gilmour is on, Castor & Pollux UltraMix, is one of the best out there. But it's from a small, privately owned company and it doesn't get much exposure beyond word of mouth. It has a very good balance of proteins (without going overboard), grains, fruits, veggies, etc...


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I've been feeding my dogs grain-free for years. Over the past couple of months I've been contemplating adding a small amount of grain back into their diets. I'm just not sure what food I would be happy with...I'm thinking about mixing together a bag of a good food with grain and a bag of grain-free.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

Loisiana said:


> I've been feeding my dogs grain-free for years. Over the past couple of months I've been contemplating adding a small amount of grain back into their diets. I'm just not sure what food I would be happy with...I'm thinking about mixing together a bag of a good food with grain and a bag of grain-free.


Why not just switch to a food with grains all together?


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Bock said:


> Why not just switch to a food with grains all together?


Well, like I said, I just want to add a small amount of grain, and it's hard to tell really just how much grain is in a product, so I thought that if I mixed it with grain free that would reduce the amount of grain in half.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

MyBentley said:


> While I'm always interested in reading another perspective on dog food and nutrition, I usually don't take any one person's view as gospel.
> 
> Just did some googling about Linda Arndt - The Great Dane Lady.
> 
> ...


What source does these credentials and certifications come from? I am confused on that. I know that their are scientists that do work in the field of nutrition and I know their are Universities that offer nutrition as a part of their courses....


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## jwemt81 (Aug 20, 2008)

This was a very interesting read. About a month ago, we switched Tucker from Eukanuba to California Natural Herring & Sweet Potato to see if that would help with his constant ear problems and I am amazed by what it has done for both his ears and his coat. His ears have almost totally cleared up and his coat is much softer and shinier than it has ever been. I have absolutely nothing against grains whatsoever and I personally know a lot of dogs that do extremely well on foods with corn, wheat, and other grains, including our GSD, but Tucker has done the best that he has ever done on a food with limited ingredients, so we plan to keep him on the CN. I believe that there is no one perfect dog food out there as all dogs thrive differently. What may not work for one dog may be perfect for another.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

skylielover said:


> I'm not participating in any grain-free debate either, just because I don't know ...


Me either. All I know is mine is doing well with grains.:


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## afauth (Sep 1, 2009)

Thanks for the article, it makes me feel better about the food we are feeding.... Whole ground barely, whole ground brown rice and other good carbs like sweet potatoes, blueberries, cranberries, whole carrots, etc.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

K9 Passion said:


> I have mathematical formulas that calculate the digestibility of proteins, grains, etc. & corn is the least digestible of all the grains. Yes, it is high in linoleic acid, which is beneficial for skin & coat; however, because it's so difficult for them to digest, they reap very little, if any, benefits from it. Mathematical equations cannot be refuted - they are fact.


Sorry - when I posted, I didn't realize how old your post is. But I do want to see these "mathematical equations." The whole idea is bizarre and impossible. How does one do empirical math about the digestive system? You'd have to start with the observation of measurable factors of digestibility and work from there, and some of those measurements are pretty hard to do accurately.

But by all means, please post your equations.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

tippykayak said:


> Sorry - when I posted, I didn't realize how old your post is. But I do want to see these "mathematical equations." The whole idea is bizarre and impossible. How does one do empirical math about the digestive system? You'd have to start with the observation of measurable factors of digestibility and work from there, and some of those measurements are pretty hard to do accurately.
> 
> But by all means, please post your equations.


That user hasn't been active in like 6 months so I doubt you'll be getting a response.


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

Lucky's mom said:


> What source does these credentials and certifications come from? I am confused on that. I know that their are scientists that do work in the field of nutrition and I know their are Universities that offer nutrition as a part of their courses....


While the average vet school curriculum requires 2-4 credit hours in animal nutrition, there are 2 year residency programs in nutrition for those vets wishing to specialize. One example is the American College of Veterinary Clinical Nutrition at UC Davis. There is also an American College of Veterinary Nutrition which offers continuing education credits for those wanting to increase their knowledge in the area. I believe there are also any number of workshops, seminars, etc. sponsored by various entities for vets and and non-vets to attend.


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## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

As I sit and read these debates on food, I often wonder, why don't I put HALF as much emphasis on my own diet? Sadly, I don't, and I know many of you out there do, but the bottom line for me is do the best you can with your dog, make an educated decision, try not to be close minded, and don't take others opinion, even doctors, as the do all and be all.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I've always found that amazing too, that I've had much more confidence feeding my son as he was growing up than I do my dog! 

Personally, I wonder if there's something to that ... what's all the mystery about? I once found a book on-line, a big book about dog nutrition -- it cost $400 !!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

jwemt81 said:


> This was a very interesting read. About a month ago, we switched Tucker from Eukanuba to California Natural Herring & Sweet Potato to see if that would help with his constant ear problems and I am amazed by what it has done for both his ears and his coat. His ears have almost totally cleared up and his coat is much softer and shinier than it has ever been. I have absolutely nothing against grains whatsoever and I personally know a lot of dogs that do extremely well on foods with corn, wheat, and other grains, including our GSD, but Tucker has done the best that he has ever done on a food with limited ingredients, so we plan to keep him on the CN. I believe that there is no one perfect dog food out there as all dogs thrive differently. What may not work for one dog may be perfect for another.


Just one note: this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with grains. It's great news that Tucker is doing better, but switching to fish from chicken could have had just as much to do with the changes as the switch from corn to potato.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Bock said:


> That user hasn't been active in like 6 months so I doubt you'll be getting a response.


I did notice that, which is why I changed my post (it was a bit more confrontational and direct at first), but claims like that shouldn't go unchallenged.

If empirical, undeniable proof existed that there were more or less perfect food for dogs, there wouldn't be much of a debate. As I recall, in another thread, that user posted a whole bunch of BV values based on the needs of human children and acted like those were "mathematical" and undeniable.

The fact of the matter is that the issue is rather complex, and simple answers like "grains are bad" or "chicken is mathematically the best" never really tell anything like the whole story.


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## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

JoEllen...there is something to that. There is BIG money in it, and unfortunately, there are many people out there that exploit our love for dogs.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

My dogs eat grain free, and often raw. All are healthy and thriving. Often my dogs DO go through a 'de-tox' type period (rescues who were fed really bad food like Pedigree or Ol' Roy) and then WOW do they come back and look AMAZING!


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## jwemt81 (Aug 20, 2008)

tippykayak said:


> Just one note: this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with grains. It's great news that Tucker is doing better, but switching to fish from chicken could have had just as much to do with the changes as the switch from corn to potato.


We actually just had allergy testing done and we got the results back this afternoon at our vet visit and it turns out that Tucker is allergic to corn products, which is why he had the nonstop ear problems while on the Pro Plan and Eukanuba. I'm just glad that the California Natural has helped him so much. His ears are about 95% cleared up now. The vet is treating the last tiny bit of yeast in his ears with a 2-week course of Tri-Otic, but he said that his ears have greatly improved since the last visit, which is when we first switched to CN. Our GSD, on the other hand, has absolutely no problems with corn and has been eating them her entire life.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

jwemt81 said:


> We actually just had allergy testing done and we got the results back this afternoon at our vet visit and it turns out that Tucker is allergic to corn products, which is why he had the nonstop ear problems while on the Pro Plan and Eukanuba. I'm just glad that the California Natural has helped him so much. His ears are about 95% cleared up now. The vet is treating the last tiny bit of yeast in his ears with a 2-week course of Tri-Otic, but he said that his ears have greatly improved since the last visit, which is when we first switched to CN. Our GSD, on the other hand, has absolutely no problems with corn and has been eating them her entire life.


How much did the allergy testing cost? Was it a blood test? If you don't mind giving me more info on this process, either on here or through PM. Thanks.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I did VARL Liquid Gold allergy test with Conner. Between eliminating the foods from his diet that it showed he was allergic to, and taking allergy shots for his environmental allergies, it has pretty much eliminated his problems. This was the first summer that he was not covered in hot spots and rashes.


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## jwemt81 (Aug 20, 2008)

Bock said:


> How much did the allergy testing cost? Was it a blood test? If you don't mind giving me more info on this process, either on here or through PM. Thanks.


No problem! It was done by a blood test and was around $175. It was sent off to a lab somewhere for analysis. (I'd have to go find the receipt to be 100% sure of the exact cost.) Our vet really wanted to do it since Tucker has had ear problems for so long and it came back that he does have a corn allergy, which was what the vet suspected. We had a thyroid panel done before the allergy testing and it came back absolutely perfect. Since we started him on the California Natural a month ago, his ears have been gradually getting better. He has had less brown, smelly gunk each time that we have cleaned them out. We have even noticed some changes in his coat. It's much softer and shinier now! We went back to the vet today since Tucker was also due for shots and the vet said that his ears look 95% better than they were before. The vet said that it usually takes around 2 months to see the full effect of the new food and we're only in the first month. I'm so glad that we finally decided to have the allergy testing done. It was a bit expensive, but totally worth it since now we know for sure what was causing these problems.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

jwemt81 said:


> No problem! It was done by a blood test and was around $175. It was sent off to a lab somewhere for analysis. (I'd have to go find the receipt to be 100% sure of the exact cost.) Our vet really wanted to do it since Tucker has had ear problems for so long and it came back that he does have a corn allergy, which was what the vet suspected. We had a thyroid panel done before the allergy testing and it came back absolutely perfect. Since we started him on the California Natural a month ago, his ears have been gradually getting better. He has had less brown, smelly gunk each time that we have cleaned them out. We have even noticed some changes in his coat. It's much softer and shinier now! We went back to the vet today since Tucker was also due for shots and the vet said that his ears look 95% better than they were before. The vet said that it usually takes around 2 months to see the full effect of the new food and we're only in the first month. I'm so glad that we finally decided to have the allergy testing done. It was a bit expensive, but totally worth it since now we know for sure what was causing these problems.


Glad to hear it is working out. Tysen did really well when I put him on CN as well, however, I think I misjudged his allergies as now I'm beginning to think he just has some seasonal stuff and not food. I've never been too sure, just always assumed. I'm a big advocate of the Naturapet products so happy to see it being successful.


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## jwemt81 (Aug 20, 2008)

Bock said:


> Glad to hear it is working out. Tysen did really well when I put him on CN as well, however, I think I misjudged his allergies as now I'm beginning to think he just has some seasonal stuff and not food. I've never been too sure, just always assumed. I'm a big advocate of the Naturapet products so happy to see it being successful.


We have been battling these allergy issues since we first got Tucker as a pup and it really got frustrating since nothing we tried seemed to work! Our GSD can eat just about any food and do just fine, except for Canidae. She got really sick on that and then refused to eat it. Our vet also feeds his dogs California Natural and has had great success with it, so that was what he recommended we try. We just bought our second bag of it and we'll definitely be sticking with it!


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## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

Diet for my dogs is important. It is true we should worry so much about our own as I eat another piece of halloween candy. My older dogs ate Purina Pro Plan and lived well into their 14's . This was a long time ago and was know as a good food in its day. Times have changed with all the new research and I find it all so confusing. Grain...no grain? I do believe some of the changes in diet come from a sales base need to make more money in the pet food market. I am always following and trying to learn what is best to feed my dogs. My older dogs never had one allergy, hot spot or skin condition. My 5 year old now who started on Pro Plan developed ear problems. Though she swam a lot more which didn't help with ear moisture it did become a problem. This is when the research began. We put her on Wellness Fish and Potato which seemed to help control the ears. She was on this for a while when she was due to have her first litter. I then feed Wellness puppy to the babies. Within 3 weeks at their new homes 6 out of 7 pups had very loose stool and were not thriving. This is a time their diet is made up of just kibble without suppliments from mom. I imediately had all pups change their diets which cleared up the problem within days. New food again....Innova EVO. I did like how my dogs looked. Their coats were beautiful. The next litter was due and when asked Innova they could not suggest this food to puppies. I did not like this response and chose to switch them to Canidae Grain Free ALS. We have been using this for almost two years now and everything seems wonderful. My dogs coats are just gorgeous. There stools are perfect. They love the taste. I have to stay the last litter we had which was from a Canidae diet was the biggest strongest litter to date. I don't know if the information about food is for marketing purposes but if you find the food that your dogs do well on give it time. Sometime I think if we change to often it is not enough time to see the results. They say it take 2 -3 months to know the difference.


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## Andythom (Jun 20, 2009)

I've battled with Cooper ever since i got him on finding something that would agree with his stomach. He had loose stool issues that i falsely attributed to grains due to the internet hoopla. I spent about 4 months trying several different grain-free foods with variable success, only to realize that it was chicken (i think!) that is causing the problems.

One other thing i noticed was he did NOT like to eat grain-free foods. I tried 3 different brands, totaling 4 different formulas (tried 2 different TOTW forumlas), and within a couple days he totally lost interest in all each of them. Now i've got him on CN fish and sweet potato and and he wolfs down his bowl in less then a minute (time to bring out the big rock to slow him down again). So far he's been doing well on the CN, and I'm crossing my fingers it continues.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

I don't think there's any one perfect food for all dogs, because dogs are different, just like people. My other half can down milk like it's going out of style, however I have never really liked the taste of plain milk, and if I'm foolish enough to add chocolate to it and down a glass, it almost always means I'm doubled over within half an hour with a ton of pain (which makes me think there's a reason I've never liked the taste of it!). As much as I'd love to feed just raw to my dogs, they weren't doing that great on it and were eating a ton of food and remaining thin. Now I add in some grain sources and the two younger ones for sure do much better, have meat on their bones and don't eat me out of house and home - so I can still afford to feed raw. I've also known people who swear by old roy or some other really 'horrible' brand of kibble yet their dogs do great, look great...

The only people who annoy/bother me are the ones who constantly complain about their dog's poor condition yet feed the crappiest food on the market because of the commercial hype... one in paticular, the dog has a rash on his nose on and off that they treat with cortisone cream, dry dull coat, overweight, itchy skin.... guess that beneful doesn't work so well but boy they're never going to look at switching to an 'expensive' food - thing is they're feeding about double what the dog 'needs' and he's a small dog to start with, so I'm sure it wouldn't cost them much to actually measure the food and buy something that isn't loaded with crud....

But hey, if the food works for you, why switch?

Lana


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## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

I think dogs get picky about their food if you change to often. As if they are holding out for something better. To find if a food agrees you need to stay with it for a couple of months. Every change can cause upset or loose stools. It needs to be a reasonable time to know the difference.


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

IMy Dad fed Purina Dog Chow to our bird dogs and most lived to very ripe old ages, hunting until their late years. We rarely had a sick dog--I did lose 2 to distemper back in late 50's, But I understadnt he destemper shots back then were not so great and often caused the disease. Back then distemper and rabies was abut the liit on vax for dogs. Our dogs did great on Purina.

I fed Purian Dog chow (puppy chow to puppies) and they alwasy d did great. I did go p to Purina One several years back, and then after Buck died died in May ;'07 to heart attack at 12 years 2 months, I put KayCee and Honey on Taste of the Wild, which is grainless. Oh, they wre also getting home cooked chicken stew or mackeral eery day.

Lost KayCee to cancer May ;08 and Honey is still on the TOTW (and home cooked or mackeral) and is doing fantastic. I hae never believed in switching foods every few months.

On one forum I seldem visit (was the first one I found after ProHeart6 killed Hunter and I was looking for information) some switch evety 3-4 months. Their reasoning is tht no food is perfect(which I do belive). If Food 1 lack Vitamin A and Food 2 lacks vitamin C and Food 3 lacks vitamin D and food 4 lacks vitamin E, then you switch foods every 3 months . I don't see it that way. I think you find the food closets to what is needed and stick with it. On that forum they call Eukanuba {Pukeanuba" and Scince Deit "Science Death", etc. I am not crazy about SD, but I know it works great for my many dogs and in some cases is needed for health reasons. 

KayCee was on it to loseweight and she did--nothing else worked. Once the weight was off (it was put on when she had bad kneesm surgeries 14 months apart, recovery, etc) and she never put it back on. When Buck developed a kidney infection (his only illness if you want to call it illness) in his 12 yrs. 3 months, he was put on SD and after 3 months it was cleared up and he never had it happen again--and he was back on his Purina.

It is hard ot know what to believe. Food "expert" A says NEVER GIVE GRAINS>" and Food expert B says "Grains are just fine" and food expert C says "Only give a little grain" and Food expert d says "Any grain except corn is fine" and foodexpert e says 'Corn is great." You just never know. I think you have to find one that works for youdog and stick with it.


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

Bock said:


> How much did the allergy testing cost? Was it a blood test? If you don't mind giving me more info on this process, either on here or through PM. Thanks.


I believe our testing with KrazzzzzyKady was $175, was a blood test, was conducted by Greer Labs in North Carolina, and they formulated a serum based on her allergies. If it's green and called grass she's allergic to it. Also allergic to corn and corn products, beets and beet sugar. I give her an allergen shot every 10 days and feed grain free. Do cheat a little and give her popcorn once in awhile!!


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

3 goldens said:


> On that forum they call Eukanuba {Pukeanuba" and Scince Deit "Science Death", etc. I am not crazy about SD, but I know it works great for my many dogs and in some cases is needed for health reasons.


I think I have been on that forum. I call these folks, food snobs. When they start insulting your food choice, it's time to tune them out.


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## Andythom (Jun 20, 2009)

MGMF said:


> I think dogs get picky about their food if you change to often. As if they are holding out for something better. To find if a food agrees you need to stay with it for a couple of months. Every change can cause upset or loose stools. It needs to be a reasonable time to know the difference.


I don't buy this 100%. While i do think it's important to make a somwhat gradual transition, in my experience i have noticed night and day changes in stool (from loose to nice and firm) after switching foods in only a few days. 

My dog is too food driven to consciously decide to hold out for something better. There is just something about the grain-free foods i've tried that turns him off.


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

msdogs1976 said:


> I think I have been on that forum.
> I call these folks, food snobs. When they start insulting your food choice, it's time to tune them out.


LOL
What do you call those who insult MY food criteria & promote Eukanuba, Science Diet ?


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

T&T said:


> LOL
> What do you call those who insult MY food criteria & promote Eukanuba, Science Diet ?


If Holistic works for a person, I don't think anyone is going to criticize your choice. If your criteria seems faulty to someone else....gosh its a debate not an insult.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I believe in feeding what work best for your dog. My boys have always done fine on a food with a meat or salmon meal first ingredient and then brown rice.
I have switched to what I consider a healthier food and their coats, health show it. 

But when I tried to change from brown rice because I was led to believe grain was bad to a food with sweet potato, Gunner lost his hair and 15 pounds. Switched back to our salmon and brown rice Nature's Variety and his coat is thick and glossy and I won't be changing foods again, God willing!


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

T&T said:


> LOL
> What do you call those who insult MY food criteria & promote Eukanuba, Science Diet ?


I have no idea, I just know that you and I are considered food snobs who promote "designer" foods because we believe in them. I only wish it was only a debate like Lucky's Mom said, it wouldn't be bad, but instead we are normally attacked and called names.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

T&T said:


> LOL
> What do you call those who insult MY food criteria & promote Eukanuba, Science Diet ?


Did they call your food Puken_______(fill in the blank)? Also a food snob.


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

msdogs1976 said:


> Did they call your food Puken_______(fill in the blank)? Also a food snob.


Pretty sure that was just a reference on/to ANOTHER forum. 











I've been feeding limited ingredient kibble for a loooong time. Grain free if possible. I certainly don't consider it "boutique" or "designer" food by any means. Kady needs it, that what she's gonna get, period. And I am toooo darn old to be lugging in another 35lb bag of different flavor kibble for the rest of the pack. Poops fine, coats fine, energy is fine, teeth are fine, fingernails are fine, they all snore a little but pretty sure I can't blame that on diet.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

sharlin said:


> Pretty sure that was just a reference on/to ANOTHER forum.


I know that. I saw it on another forum. I'm just saying........never mind. I'm going to watch football and stay off these discussions in the future. :crash:


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

fostermom said:


> I have no idea, I just know that you and I are considered food snobs who promote "designer" foods because we believe in them. I only wish it was only a debate like Lucky's Mom said, it wouldn't be bad, but instead we are normally attacked and called names.





msdogs1976 said:


> Did they call your food Puken_______(fill in the blank)? Also a food snob.


If being against grain based diets for carnivores, and/or unspecified ingredients, by-products, GMO's, carcinogenic ingredients makes me a "food snob" ... or "whatever" ... then so be it. 

Wonder where the "designer" and "fancy" comes from ... 
There's nothing more "plain" than ... Whole / natural / holistic / organic ...


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

sharlin said:


> I've been feeding limited ingredient kibble for a loooong time. Grain free if possible. I certainly don't consider it "boutique" or "designer" food by any means. Kady needs it, that what she's gonna get, period. And I am toooo darn old to be lugging in another 35lb bag of different flavor kibble for the rest of the pack. Poops fine, coats fine, energy is fine, teeth are fine, fingernails are fine, they all snore a little but pretty sure I can't blame that on diet.


 









You do realize that makes you an "old" "food snob" don't you ?


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## The_Artful_Dodger (Mar 26, 2009)

T&T said:


> If being against grain based diets for carnivores, and/or unspecified ingredients, by-products, GMO's, carcinogenic ingredients makes me a "food snob" ... or "whatever" ... then so be it.


You're entitled to your beliefs. But others are also entitled to disagree. The problems arise when people (on either "side") imply that people with different opinions are less educated on nutrition or even that they don't care as much about feeding nutritious food to their pet. I think debate is healthy but I dont think name-calling resolves anything.


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

T&T said:


> You do realize that makes you an "old" "food snob" don't you ?


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