# Dog Gone Wild



## woodysmama (Feb 25, 2007)

Have u considered having her work with a trainer or obedience class?.....Sounds like just puppy issues but then again, Im not an expert, but there are many of them in this forum.....


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I think she is at an age where they all start to test the authority. The incident with the digging sounds like defiance, and I know that's a humanizing term, but she is testing your authority. I know there are members on the board who will have good insight and suggestions.

How frequent are these incidents? One thing I would suggest is keep a leash on her so you can redirect or remove her from whatever is about to set her off immediately if she starts to go into that mode.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Example one and two is classic resource guarding.

For the tissue issue (and for anything that she steals) I would suggest management first (the question of HOW is she getting the stolen objects in the first place) and once she has stolen the item, if it's not going to kill her to eat it or cost you more than $100 to replace it, then you're not allowed to go challenge her for it. That's a fight you will lose since she has a mouthful of teeth. If you continue to challenge her like that, there may well come a time when she realizes the full power of her mouth of teeth and you'll come away with a bite needing medical attention and that may well become the beginning of the end for the dog.

I absolutely don't believe in the idea of "you must show her who's boss" when it comes to any aggression. To me, that's all ego based and I've seen it backfire time and time again.

When we work with resource guarders, we usually end up using a bit of reverse psychology and teaching the dog to happily retrieve whatever they have stolen. That works very well. In the meantime, IMO, you've got to stop challenging her for the items b/c it's becomming a bit of a "pissing match" (pardon the expression) and I don't want your dog to learn to escalate her violence. Dogs guard things b/c they think our presence near them is a threat. When we rush over there with the "you give me that" attitude, we prove to the dog that their original idea (we are a threat) is correct.

If she has something that will kill her to eat (VERY FEW things actually fall into this category) then you can distract her with something else to make her leave the stolen item on her own -- like the idea of going for a walk, etc. I'd even rather you trade the stolen item for a great treat as opposed to battle her for it.

A huge part of it does go back to management. It's the human's responsibiltiy to keep things picked up so that the dog can't steal stuff. Remember that everytime she steals something and you run after her, you're confirming that what she stole was valuable, which will make her want to steal it again.

The bone issue with the other dogs was just poor management. At the first sign of your dog showing interest in the other dogs' bones, she could have gone on a leash for management. You could have worked on training exercised with her to mentally take her mind off fixating on the other dog and their bones. If you know she guards bones, she shouldn't be loose in a room with other dogs who have bones. Period. 

Digging holes -- I love that you're trying to manage the behavior with the mat, but it sounds like the mat itself isn't quite enough - especially if she can just shove it out of the way. Maybe the mat needs a few landscaping bricks on it so she can't move it. And maybe she needs something *else* to occupy her time -- like a stuffed Kong or chew bone, assuming she won't guard it from you when you try and pick it up to take her inside.

There is a common thread of her turning aggressive when you go to confront her. She's learning that your approach under certain circumstances = something negative and she's planning accordingly. That alone, suggests to me, that the "confrontations" you've been having aren't working and worse, are backfiring in the form of aggression. 

Rather then allowing her to fail - by leaving her in a situation where she starts to do something that causes you the need to feel you must confront her, I'd rather see you switch gears and manage her world so that it's next to impossible for her to do the wrong things so that you can reward her for doing the correct things by default. Dogs learn better by being rewarded for doing what we like than for being corrected for screwing up... and often, corrections can cause fallout. And no, I'm not a pure positive trainer who ONLY uses food and reward and never issues a correction, but I do believe you have to establish and teach the RIGHT thing before it's fair to correct the dog.

Best of luck! Do keep us posted!


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

Wow, what an excellent reply...please listen to FlyingQuizini, she knows her stuff!!


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## Tailer'sFolks (Feb 27, 2007)

Yes, Excellent advice given by FlyingQuizini ! You may have a few very trying months from now to 9-18 months!! It's part of having a Golden Fur Child! You & Your Family need to be the Alpha Humans...work on it...it will pay you back hundred fold in the years to come.

You are not alone...all our dogs tried us during this age! It will be OK! Keep up the Good Work!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Bumping for the original poster.


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## Griffyn'sMom (Mar 22, 2007)

These are 3 things I picked up from your posts - can you see a pattern?



Chelsea(NL) said:


> With the Tissue:
> We sort of had her cornered and I was trying to lever her jaw open, which was entirely clamped shut, to get the remainder of the tissue. Suddenly she sort of lost it, started snarling, but out at me and it took me about 10 seconds to wrest her to the ground.
> 
> With the bone:
> ...


Are you sure you're not getting a fear reaction from her? It just seems to me that every time you grab her or go for her collar, she reacts badly.

Please tell the trainer you are working with about this as well. You don't have to announce it to the class - stay afterwards and tell him/her.

I hope you get good results with the tactics FlyingQuizini has told you. I think you will be successful if you change your way of doing things a bit. 

Chasing her around makes it a fun game and Goldens are all about fun. Wrestling her to the ground and yanking it out of her mouth teaches her fear. Teach her to give you things for something better. First a treat, then some play, then just an enthusiastic Good Girl will be all you need! Best wishes - you CAN do it!


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## Chelsea(NL) (May 8, 2007)

Thanks for the feedback so far. We will be working with Chelsea daily on these issues. We did try to get her to drop the tissue first but unfornately it just turned into a chasing game and then trying to get it out of her mouth. I don't think we will bother with chasing for tissue anymore. It just not worth it. 
Jackie


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

That was a GREAT reply by F.Q. - here's keeping paws crossed that it works for you.


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

Jo, I had the same reaction as you. The interactions with this dog should be friendly and upbeat, even when trying to discipline. 

Just my take on the situations: when she grabbed a tissue instead of cornering her, I would have approached her in a happy friendly voice saying "give" or "drop it" in exchange for something she could have, such as a piece of kibble. Yes, there is a danger of this becoming a game. But they soon learn that whatever they take isn't really theirs and eventually they're going to have to give it up. 

Rawhides, pigs ears and other tastey treats are a real source of trouble when there are multiple dogs around. They seem to be a really bad cause of resource guarding. I don't allow those things in my house because they can cause fighting. 

And the digging? Pretty common when dogs are bored. I know the idea of tying her out on a leash is so that she can be with you. And when she's older and not so easily bored, it probably will work better. But with her being so young, she's looking for anything to stay busy. 

If you can't be playing directly with her when she's outside, best to leave her kenneled inside so that she doesn't develop the bad habits like digging.


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## paulbridges02 (Jul 2, 2007)

I am going to put my 2cents in with some things I have done, but I am no expert and am still young myself with plenty to learn, so its just something to think on. 

Molly is almost 14 weeks now and something I have done from the very beginning with her is to handle her treats and food while she is eating or playing with them. I will occasionally take away something she is chewing on for a few moments and then give it back, just so she knows it is mine. I have also been working with her to make her confortable with my touch in places such as her feet, but also in her mouth. I will open her mouth and rub my finger on her teeth or tongue and then treat her afterwards. I have already seen a difference in how willing she is to give up something she is not supposed to have, often without any debate over it. 

Now I do not know if this is the right way to go about it, and if not I am mroe than open to feedback, but it seems to be working for me and may be something for you to try.

As far as digging is concerned, Molly is on a lead in the yard right now, 30ft I think, and I tend to stay close to one end of the lead so that when she gets in the "digging position" (butt up, chest down and front feet out) I will gently pull her another direction and call her to distract her. While she still diggs or starts to occasionally, I can now stick my head out the door and tell her no and she will stop immediately because she knows she is not supposed to be digging.


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

paulbridges02 said:


> I am going to put my 2cents in with some things I have done, but I am no expert and am still young myself with plenty to learn, so its just something to think on.
> 
> Molly is almost 14 weeks now and something I have done from the very beginning with her is to handle her treats and food while she is eating or playing with them. I will occasionally take away something she is chewing on for a few moments and then give it back, just so she knows it is mine. I have also been working with her to make her confortable with my touch in places such as her feet, but also in her mouth. I will open her mouth and rub my finger on her teeth or tongue and then treat her afterwards. I have already seen a difference in how willing she is to give up something she is not supposed to have, often without any debate over it.
> 
> ...


Excellent points. Brandy knows I have access to her mouth 24/7. Reyna was the same way. I say "open" and those jaws come apart. Likewise, I hand-feed their kibble now and then, from their bowls, so that they know that is also mine and that I'm choosing to give it to them. 

Good suggestion on the digging. Distraction breaks their concentration and helps to keep their little minds occupied. Likewise, something like a Buster Cube might be helpful out in the yard.


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## Chelsea(NL) (May 8, 2007)

Molly is almost 14 weeks now and something I have done from the very beginning with her is to handle her treats and food while she is eating or playing with them. I will occasionally take away something she is chewing on for a few moments and then give it back, just so she knows it is mine. I have also been working with her to make her confortable with my touch in places such as her feet, but also in her mouth. I will open her mouth and rub my finger on her teeth or tongue and then treat her afterwards. I have already seen a difference in how willing she is to give up something she is not supposed to have, often without any debate over it. 




Hello all, 
I just wanted to add that all these things were done with Chelsea from day 1, and that she is walked approximately three times per day. However. leave it is not something we have worked on, I sure she will learn eventually.
Jackie


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

As others have pointed out, she's at "that age". She's entering her adolescence when all of the work you've done training her will seem to fly out the window. Keep the faith and keep doing all the right things. They do emerge from the other side, and it's sometimes as if a lightbulb goes off: they are that trained, well behaved dog you've been hoping for!


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Lexi was very much like your Chelsea...it is very scary...
We adopted her @ 9 months and I imagine she had been practicing her guarding for many months...
By trial and error we came to follow exactly what FQ offered to you...you are lucky that youve got a great plan so early...it took us a long time to figure out all the pieces....You really can get through this with Chelsea...but it does take a plan...

I would sugggest a slip lead - in the event that you 'have to' gather her in an emergency...a slip does not require you to handle her collar...and you can guide her out of a corner and lead her to a more neutral area...or away from a group of people...

I will never consider Lexi to be 'cured' of her resource guarding. Even at 8 years old I never let my guard down with her ...but life is MUCH, MUCH easier now...


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## Chelsea(NL) (May 8, 2007)

A slip lead sounds like a good idea, especially when other dogs are around. Everyday I feed Chelsea from the hand before I give her her food. We are still working on her letting us take her chew bones away from her. She seems to be getting better with that aspect of the training. I knwo this will take time, but i'm glad we can try to do things better. 
Thanks everyone.


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