# Looking to get an english cream



## boomdog (Mar 6, 2009)

we are looking to add a golden pup to our family and we had a kennel recommended to us in Canada....Kyon Kennels. Does anyone have any thoughts they would like to share on the dogs from that kennel? Any english cream breeders in the Tri-State area that someone would recommended instead?


----------



## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Welcome to the forum,
At the top of the page under miscellanous is a puppy buyer check list that will give you some valuabe information. Whichever breeder you go thru make sure they do all of their clearances heart,eye,hip and elbow and look at the manner the puppies are raised. Check with the GRCA http://www.grca.org/allabout/index.html and they have a bunch of great information. 
I beleive we have a couple of members here that have dogs from Kyon but I dont remember their names. Good luck in your search for a puppy.


----------



## TwoGoldens (Feb 8, 2008)

Shiloh is from Kyon Kennels. She is , I believe a great example of good breeding practices. She is everything a Golden should be and more. We visited the kennels and met the owners. 

Now having said that, I can only speak from my own personal experience. I will never buy another pup from them. I won't post here why, but feel free to PM me.........


----------



## Molly&Me (Feb 2, 2009)

Having never had any person experiences with Kyon, I can say we ran into a couple who had purchased their two puppies from them. They were beautiful dogs and the couple had nothing but nice things to say about them. But again I haven't dealt with them personally.


----------



## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I would go to our member here Doolin, either for advice or for an Eire Loch puppy if I were looking for a british golden pup.
http://www.dogwebs.net/Doolin/dogs.asp?ID=28664
www.britishgoldens.com


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I would just be wary of anyone who will advertise their dogs as "english creme" or similar. Kyon does not do this to my knowledge, nor would any good breeder.


----------



## TXDUDE (Jan 26, 2008)

*Great Source*

We got the most awesome English Cream from Sallie and Dennis D'Asaro at Darrowby Goldens - www.darrowby.com and http://www.darrowby.com/litters.htm. They are located in Middleburgh New York. Our dog Dude is now 15 months old and he is the most awesome dog. Words cannot describe him. We had to get on a waiting list and if I recall it took about 5 or 6 months. Sallie was very honest and pleasant to deal with. Dude was put on a plane and flown to San Antonio without any problems so where you live should not be much of a concern.

Good Luck
Brian


----------



## honeysmum (Dec 4, 2007)

Oh come on another person wanting an English cream.
I am sorry if you are genuine but there have been so many posts about this and it is such an emotive subject I have a problem taking it seriously.
BTW I live in England if you want a light colored Golden say that rather than an English cream as it winds people up or is that the intention.
Sorry if I am wrong.


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

:--keep_silent:mis id me bean eally gud.


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

honeysmum said:


> Oh come on another person wanting an English cream.
> I am sorry if you are genuine but there have been so many posts about this and it is such an emotive subject I have a problem taking it seriously.
> BTW I live in England if you want a light colored Golden say that rather than an English cream as it winds people up or is that the intention.
> Sorry if I am wrong.


Actually I do believe the OP was being 100% sincere and not looking to stir up the bees. The term is so prevalent on this side of the pond that it will NEVER go away. All we can hope for is that the "educated" keepers of the breed can impress upon the unknowing that if they see dogs advertised as such, it may very well be a red flag. And of course there is nothing wrong with wanting a Golden of lighter color or of English heritage.


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> :--keep_silent:mis id me bean eally gud.


**** proud of you Laura! :--policeman:


----------



## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

How about if we make a sticky under the "choosing a breeder" area and title it "For those looking for an 'English cream'"? Then post helpful information for those people looking for a 'white' golden retriever.


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

AmbikaGR said:


> **** proud of you Laura! :--policeman:


 
:--keep_silent:fanx, ank.:--pipe:


----------



## Doolin (Jun 23, 2008)

I have to agree that this whole fad of the "creme" color is a little annoying. I have found there to be quite a bit to like about the goldens in Europe. In fact my best bird dog here is primarily from lines developed recently overseas. But that is the extent to which I will differentiate her. A golden retriever is a golden retriever no matter what you decided to call them. Getting one based on color, is the last reason you should have for getting this breed.


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Doolin said:


> I have to agree that this whole fad of the "creme" color is a little annoying. I have found there to be quite a bit to like about the goldens in Europe. In fact my best bird dog here is primarily from lines developed recently overseas. But that is the extent to which I will differentiate her. A golden retriever is a golden retriever no matter what you decided to call them. Getting one based on color, is the last reason you should have for getting this breed.


 
:--keep_silent:wut he thed.


----------



## boomdog (Mar 6, 2009)

*Thanks*

Thank you to everyone who replied to my post regarding getting an "english cream" and who offered their opinions of the kennel I had indicated. I would also like to thank you for all of your constructive criticism of my usage of "english cream" when referring to the english golden retriever. The kennel was recommended to me by a non-golden breeder and that was the term she used which I then carried forward (mistakenly). Frankly, I couldn't care less if the dog was bright orange, I was steered in the direction of that kennel because of positive comments regarding the health of their dogs. I purchased my goldens because I was immediately smitten by them (in other words, uninformed) and I have had the misery of knowing how liver cancer (metastisizing to the lungs), hip dysplasia and siezures affects the breed. Very painful lessons. I posted here to get real advice and after reading the forum for an entire day I have learned a fair amount. Our family is simply looking for a companion that was bred by someone who genuinely cares about the breed and tries very hard to produce healthy, well-tempered dogs. 
I'm new to the website and I will keep your advice in mind when posting in the future. We are looking forward to following up on the breeders names that we were given!


----------



## martinrt (Jun 24, 2008)

I'm seriously bothered by the number of people who take such a stern, automatically negative, stance to anyone talking about "English Creme" goldens. The primary reaction is "well they better not say rare english creme". It's an adjective, not a sales point or predefined breeding practice. Yes, some people do describe their goldens as English Creme, because that best fits their overall appearance, it's a color! Other people call their Goldens "RED", but i've yet to hear anyone complain about this classification??? There are definitely people who use this terminology to their financial benefit, but that aside, it is just a color characteristic/description, right? People also freak out when Goldens are described as being "champagne" or "platinum"...again, just colors. There's nothing inherent about these adjectives that suggest "rare...get em while they last!"

It was the description, "English Creme/Platnim Blond", that drew me to my goldens...because that's what they are. 

It seems like you can say light, dark, white, red, copper, or anything else to describe your golden, but as soon as you as english creme or platinum you're obviously identifying yourself as someone who has been scammed or is about to be scammed. 

I hate these non stop disputes on here about english vs american goldens, but I think this is the only time I've actually weighed in. If it's a responsible breeder and a buyer who's done their homework then no need to cause a huge ruckus over it! 

I know nothing about the specific breeder mentioned in the OP, but don't let all the critics steer you away just because they're "English Creme".


----------



## TwoGoldens (Feb 8, 2008)

Far from an expert here. But I did do a lot of research before getting Shiloh. Never once did I find Kyon Kennels advertising rare English Goldens , British Goldens or even cream goldens. 
I also think the OP was sincere and not trying to "stir things up" Just thought he/she might be interested in some opinions from people who have had dealings with them.........


----------



## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

Doolin said:


> Getting one based on color, is the last reason you should have for getting this breed.


While not high on the list of priorities for a majority of people I certainly understand the appeal to the lighter goldens. IMO "English" Goldens have an air of calmness and majesty about them. Due to breeding - yes, not color. But there's something about a light Golden that is captivating to me. I picked my first Golden rescue because he had the most Golden colored eyes I've ever seen - and they looked right into my soul. So color will play in the choice - otherwise everybody would drive a black Vovlo, or a red Ford. For non-breeders, non-hunters, and non-show people, their expectation of what they want for a furkid is a very important to them.


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

martinrt said:


> I'm seriously bothered by the number of people who take such a stern, automatically negative, stance to anyone talking about "English Creme" goldens. The primary reaction is "well they better not say rare english creme". It's an adjective, not a sales point or predefined breeding practice. Yes, some people do describe their goldens as English Creme, because that best fits their overall appearance, it's a color! Other people call their Goldens "RED", but i've yet to hear anyone complain about this classification??? There are definitely people who use this terminology to their financial benefit, but that aside, it is just a color characteristic/description, right? People also freak out when Goldens are described as being "champagne" or "platinum"...again, just colors. There's nothing inherent about these adjectives that suggest "rare...get em while they last!"
> 
> It was the description, "English Creme/Platnim Blond", that drew me to my goldens...because that's what they are.
> 
> ...


 

They are not recognized colors. Light gold, gold, and dark gold are. (If "platinum" or "champagne" dogs still have gold in them, they are registered as "light gold". And yes, using the terms that you describe is a well known marketing technique that is most often utilized by those who in fact charge more and attempt to represent these dogs are somehow better, more valuable, and even "rare". That is where the dispute is valid. And do note that when "debating" this issue, we always state that health clearances, and temperament, come first and should always be considered no matter the color.

DANG it. The band-aids fell off...
Sorry.


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

martinrt said:


> I hate these non stop disputes on here about english vs american goldens, but I think this is the only time I've actually weighed in. If it's a responsible breeder and a buyer who's done their homework then no need to cause a huge ruckus over it!
> 
> I know nothing about the specific breeder mentioned in the OP, but don't let all the critics steer you away just because they're "English Creme".


Not sure why you decided to "weigh in" this time but you did. Not one reply in this thread said that the kennel the original poster asked about was to be steered away from because they're "English Creme". Actually almost all the responses about this kennel were positive, even the one who said they would not get another dog from them had nothing negative to say about the dog they purchased from them was a positive one in my eyes. And the arguments are not about "English" VS "American". The warnings are always aimed at being sure the prospective puppy buyer is aware of the facts about the majority of those who advertise as such. Also note that the person who was concerned that the OP might be trying to get this debate going again IS FROM ENGLAND and is more than willing to tell all that will listen there is no such thing as an "English Creme". And just as red, blond, platinum tend not to get the juices flowing neither does creme. But adding "rare" or "English" or "white" changes the whole interpretation. JMHO (which I always seem to be more than willing to share )


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

sharlin said:


> While not high on the list of priorities for a majority of people I certainly understand the appeal to the lighter goldens. IMO "English" Goldens have an air of calmness and majesty about them. Due to breeding - yes, not color. But there's something about a light Golden that is captivating to me. I picked my first Golden rescue because he had the most Golden colored eyes I've ever seen - and they looked right into my soul. So color will play in the choice - otherwise everybody would drive a black Vovlo, or a red Ford. For non-breeders, non-hunters, and non-show people, their expectation of what they want for a furkid is a very important to them.


 
Steve I agree that most people do have a preference to shade. I have always stated that if you were to put two identical "perfect" specimens of the breed side by side and one was lighter in color and the other was darker I would pick the darker one every time. No Question about it. Oddly enough my heart dog is definetly lighter, go figure!


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I wasn't knocking anyone for liking UK pedigree/lines dogs at ALL.

I'm just saying that a good breeder won't advertise them as English Creme or Cream. Look for a breeder who has top notch dogs which happen to have UK imported lines behind them. That's all


----------



## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

Just to add, members this side of the pond (UK) are unaccustomed to the term 'English cream' and could be quite baffling to someone who has not read the threads discussing the differences in the style of goldens that is apparent in the US and Canada. Over here we simply own golden retrievers and until someone imports an American golden and coins the term 'Rare American Red' we won't really understand the differences on the same scale.


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I would say the same if someone asked me where to find "rare blue Whippets" (it's happened). They're not rare... they're just Whippets (and all colors are equal according to the Whippet standard). *It's not bad to LIKE blue/blue brindle Whippets. I have OWNED ONE myself, and I LIKED his color and it was ONE of the factors in choosing him, though certainly not the only one.* What bugs is when they're advertised as "rare" and bred by puppy mills with no regard for anything but color, and sold for twice what other colors are sold for. Luckily in Whippets this issue is limited to one, maybe two such breeders in the entire country. (My own blue brindle whippet was not from one of these- he is an English import from a show breeder.) But, it is a much more widespread problem in Goldens, being that they are so popular. While we are on the subject, I myself have owned one English lines Golden (I adopted him at age ten from a Golden rescue group and kept him until his death). He was cream colored, and sweet as sugar, and very pretty. I have also fostered one (she found a great home). So it's not the dogs I am knocking.


----------



## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

boomdog said:


> I'm new to the website and I will keep your advice in mind when posting in the future. We are looking forward to following up on the breeders names that we were given!


Welcome! Make sure you keep us posted and share some photos when you get your pup.


----------



## Doolin (Jun 23, 2008)

I appologize if I sounded like I was being rude towards the OP. I just get so frustrated with the dishonest breeders of that coined this "Fad". Almost everytime I see a golden of really light color I am told about where the parents are from and the "European Imported Lines". I have run into breeders who not knowing me told all about their great business with this style of golden. It definitely frustrates me as they give the breed such a bad reputation. I guess that is what I get for living in what seems to be "Puppy Mill Central" WI


----------



## martinrt (Jun 24, 2008)

AmbikaGR said:


> Not sure why you decided to "weigh in" this time but you did. Not one reply in this thread said that the kennel the original poster asked about was to be steered away from because they're "English Creme". Actually almost all the responses about this kennel were positive, even the one who said they would not get another dog from them had nothing negative to say about the dog they purchased from them was a positive one in my eyes. And the arguments are not about "English" VS "American". The warnings are always aimed at being sure the prospective puppy buyer is aware of the facts about the majority of those who advertise as such. Also note that the person who was concerned that the OP might be trying to get this debate going again IS FROM ENGLAND and is more than willing to tell all that will listen there is no such thing as an "English Creme". And just as red, blond, platinum tend not to get the juices flowing neither does creme. But adding "rare" or "English" or "white" changes the whole interpretation. JMHO (which I always seem to be more than willing to share )


I wrote out a big long response and then deleted it. My underlying point is not all breeders of english goldens are deceptive and not all buyers are ignorant. If someone says they're getting a red golden everyone responds with "Contgarts", "Post pictures ASAP". If someone says they're getting a english creme golden the responses are "Check the puppy link about breeder guidelines", " English Creme isn't a recognized color", "make sure they have health clearances". I understand that it's all well intended, but it doesn't always come across that way. I don't see how english and white change a preception of a dog but red doesn't.


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

martinrt said:


> I don't see how english and white change a preception of a dog but red doesn't.


 
Try googling "red golden retirever"
then do "white golden retriever"
then do "creme golden retriever"
then do "english creme golden retriever"
Make sure to include the quotation marks

If this does not show how perceptions are created nothing does.


----------



## rictic (Feb 16, 2009)

i think in using the term "english" they are somehow trying to intimate that they are a superior line.

maybe putting the thought subliminally in someones head they are specially imported or of older bloodlines.

but at the end of the day all thoroughbred horses descend from just a few arab horses, so gr's must descend from the original gene pool too.

people are different colours, does that make me better than say a black superfit athlete with a phd in rocket science?

of course it doesnt. he has a better pedigree than me.

peoples choice of colour is a personal thing for their pet. 

personally i prefer the darker more golden dog. 
but they are all dogs under the fur.


----------



## 3459 (Dec 27, 2007)

martinrt said:


> If someone says they're getting a red golden everyone responds with "Contgarts", "Post pictures ASAP". If someone says they're getting a english creme golden the responses are "Check the puppy link about breeder guidelines", " English Creme isn't a recognized color", "make sure they have health clearances". I understand that it's all well intended, but it doesn't always come across that way. I don't see how english and white change a preception of a dog but red doesn't.


Sincerely, I hope everyone that inquires about breeders receives a kindly recommendation to check out the puppy link about breeder guidelines. It's some of the most valuable information available on the forum, and I think that would apply regardless of what shades of gold appeal most to the puppy buyer, or what characteristics they hope their future puppy will possess. Every golden retriever puppy buyer wants to find a healthy golden retriever first and foremost, and I think it's out of a desire to aid them in that pursuit that posters inquiring about breeders are referred to the puppy buyer's guide. And, FWIW, it usually goes a long way towards promoting meaningful dialog and avoiding misunderstandings, as well.


----------



## skeller (Mar 5, 2008)

TXDUDE said:


> We got the most awesome English Cream from Sallie and Dennis D'Asaro at Darrowby Goldens - www.darrowby.com and http://www.darrowby.com/litters.htm. They are located in Middleburgh New York. Our dog Dude is now 15 months old and he is the most awesome dog. Words cannot describe him. We had to get on a waiting list and if I recall it took about 5 or 6 months. Sallie was very honest and pleasant to deal with. Dude was put on a plane and flown to San Antonio without any problems so where you live should not be much of a concern.
> 
> Good Luck
> Brian


We have a Darrowby Golden too and he is wonderful.


----------



## historicprim (Nov 24, 2007)

AmbikaGR said:


> Steve I agree that most people do have a preference to shade. I have always stated that if you were to put two identical "perfect" specimens of the breed side by side and one was lighter in color and the other was darker I would pick the darker one every time. No Question about it. Oddly enough my heart dog is definetly lighter, go figure!


I'm with you on this one Hank, after being around so many goldens for a very along period of time, I favor the darker ones over the lighter. I dont understand why either!


----------



## historicprim (Nov 24, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> :--keep_silent:fanx, ank.:--pipe:


 Oh my goodness Laura....I'm gonna pee my pants..lol


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

We all have traits we like- not just limited to color.

I like a TON of coat (in any shade) and I prefer a straight, thick coat... I do like darker, but I like them to have super blonde feathering on a deep, dark golden body. Love that contrast. And so forth... 

My Golden is blonde...


----------



## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I have one redish, one a bit light, but I'd love a "CREAM" colored Golden!


----------



## martinrt (Jun 24, 2008)

AmbikaGR said:


> Try googling "red golden retirever"
> then do "white golden retriever"
> then do "creme golden retriever"
> then do "english creme golden retriever"
> ...


Okay, so I did, and I guess I'm missing your point. "Red Golden Retriever" takes me to images of Red Goldens and breeder websites for "RED" goldens. "White Golden Retriever" takes me to links for white Goldens, etc... I'm sure I could also google light goldens and dark goldens and be taken to other sites for breeders. From what I can tell when you search for something like "adjective (red/white/creme)/noun(golden retriever)" you are directed to sites that offer the noun you are looking for with the adjective you are interested in. The perceptions are created by people who take a few cases of bad breeding/advertising practices and act as if that is the norm.


----------



## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I just did a different Google search and came upon English Cream Dashounds!


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

English Golden Retrievers would be dogs bred in England. They would be gold, although many are a much LIGHTER gold than we normally see here in the US.
English Golden breeders would be would be people in England breeding Golden Retrievers.
Breeders n the US who breed English Golden Retrievers would be people in the US breeding dogs that have been imported from England.
The current fad is to market dogs as being "English whatevers", not only giving the impression, but actually STATING, that they are better, healtheir, calmer, rare, etc. Nearly every uninformed buyer believes that all English dogs are "white", (platinum, cream, creme, whatever), which as our own UK members here have stated is incorrect. The dog that won Crufts last year is a perfect example - he was truly GOLD, and truly gorgeous, as well as a talented example of a retriever.
The breed is "Golden Retriever" for a reason - the color is so specific to the breed that it was made it's name. It must be gold - various, lustrous shades of gold. Which can encompass anything from quite light, to quite dark, as long as there remains gold in the shade. 

Anyone who saw the Sweepstakes that I judged in WI could not possibly say that I judged the dogs based on color, as my lineup for Best in Sweeps included some very light dogs, as well as a couple of quite red dogs. In fact, in one class there were 3 bitches and I commented "Now, here is a picture showing all colors!" A _very_ light gold , a medium gold, and a dark gold - all lined up and all quite nice. My personal preference is for a "medium, lustrous gold" but that doesn't mean that if a lighter or darker dog is better that I will choose the medium dog - color is secondary. However, again, the very name of the breed dictates that it must be "gold" - not white, not brown.

This has been hashed over a bazillion times, and I'm sure will be a bazillion times more. It's really not true that we don't "celebrate" light colored dogs as we do others - the crux of the issue is how falsely they are marketed, and still being concerned about the health issues and good breeding practices that should of far more importance than the color.


----------



## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Pointgold said:


> English Golden Retrievers would be dogs bred in England. They would be gold, although many are a much LIGHTER gold than we normally see here in the US.
> English Golden breeders would be would be people in England breeding Golden Retrievers.
> Breeders n the US who breed English Golden Retrievers would be people in the US breeding dogs that have been imported from England.
> The current fad is to market dogs as being "English whatevers", not only giving the impression, but actually STATING, that they are better, healtheir, calmer, rare, etc. Nearly everyone uninformed buyer believes that all English dogs are "white", (platinum, cream, creme, whatever), which as our own UK members here have sttaed is incorrect. The dog that won Crufts last year is a perfect example - he was truly GOLD, and truly gorgeous, as well as a talented example of a retriever.
> ...


Oh my gosh....your emoticans and your "good" accent just had me giggling. 

But even with this post you were very, very good.


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

martinrt said:


> Okay, so I did, and I guess I'm missing your point. "Red Golden Retriever" takes me to images of Red Goldens and breeder websites for "RED" goldens. "White Golden Retriever" takes me to links for white Goldens, etc... I'm sure I could also google light goldens and dark goldens and be taken to other sites for breeders. From what I can tell when you search for something like "adjective (red/white/creme)/noun(golden retriever)" you are directed to sites that offer the noun you are looking for with the adjective you are interested in. The perceptions are created by people who take a few cases of bad breeding/advertising practices and act as if that is the norm.


Yes I guess you are missing my point because when I google the "red golden retriever" term there is not one "breeder" website that comes up. There are a couple of "classified page" links. And of all the ones I checked only "one" actually was advertising "red golden retriever male pups". All the other's used the term red to describe one of the parents. 
Now when I did the other terms I suggested I get a half dozen or so just on the first page. But if you want to furtther see what my point is addthe word "pups" to each of these searches and when you do "red golden retriever pups" this is the response 







No results found for *"red golden retriever pups"*.

And then it goes on t lit all the results without " " which is useless. But with the other terms and "pups" there are plenty of breeders listed.

As for _"The perceptions are created by people who take a few cases of bad breeding/advertising practices and act as if that is the norm."_ I can probably show you ten examples of these "few cases", for every GOOD one you can post that uses the terms "English Creme/Cream" or "White". The GOOD ones in general do not do it. Again JMHO.


----------



## diana_D (Jan 27, 2008)

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/108

_Any shade of *gold or cream, **neither red nor mahogany.* A few white hairs on chest only, permissible._

And that is the Kennel Club Standard, also adopted by FCI - the standard is dictated by the country the breed originates from.


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

diana_D said:


> http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/108
> 
> _Any shade of *gold or cream, **neither red nor mahogany.* A few white hairs on chest only, permissible._
> 
> And that is the Kennel Club Standard, also adopted by FCI - the standard is dictated by the country the breed originates from.



That is the UK standard.. the US standard is worded differently.. this is what it says on the AKC site.

*Color*
Rich, lustrous golden of various shades. Feathering may be lighter than rest of coat. With the exception of graying or whitening of face or body due to age, any white marking, other than a few white hairs on the chest, should be penalized according to its extent. Allowable light shadings are not to be confused with white markings. Predominant body color which is either extremely pale or extremely dark is undesirable. Some latitude should be given to the light puppy whose coloring shows promise of deepening with maturity. Any noticeable area of black or other off-color hair is a serious fault.


----------



## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I just have to ask this: why do puppy mills in America use "creme" instead of cream? Is that like Shoppe instead of shop? A french british color?


----------



## diana_D (Jan 27, 2008)

missmarstar said:


> That is the UK standard.. the US standard is worded differently.. this is what it says on the AKC site.
> 
> *Color*
> Rich, lustrous golden of various shades. Feathering may be lighter than rest of coat. With the exception of graying or whitening of face or body due to age, any white marking, other than a few white hairs on the chest, should be penalized according to its extent. Allowable light shadings are not to be confused with white markings. Predominant body color which is either extremely pale or extremely dark is undesirable. Some latitude should be given to the light puppy whose coloring shows promise of deepening with maturity. Any noticeable area of black or other off-color hair is a serious fault.


To me it's the Kennel Club standard that matters - the only one. And I was merely pointing out that cream is indeed a perfectly acceptable color (not for AKC, of course). 
But I guess if any of the people who want a cream GR in US should know they might not successfully show their dog. 
I really have no problem with this color, but I totally understand the frustration related to unscrupulous breeders who advertise their dogs in such a way in order to sell those pups at incredible prices. Most are of such poor quality...
As a side note, here in Europe we can tell if a breeder is serious if he/she is involved in showing. This ,and long talks with them over the phone made me decide on my breeder. Perhaps pointing this to people who want to buy a Golden might help a lot more than starting for the nth time with the endless debate of cream color.


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Yeah that bothers me too- spell it right, at least, if you're going to use it as a gimmick. 

And, there's no SUCH THING AS WHITE Goldens. Even a cream Golden is not white- it's genetically impossible. Advertising the dogs as white is just plain stupid.


----------



## diana_D (Jan 27, 2008)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Yeah that bothers me too- spell it right, at least, if you're going to use it as a gimmick.
> 
> And, there's no SUCH THING AS WHITE Goldens. Even a cream Golden is not white- it's genetically impossible. Advertising the dogs as white is just plain stupid.


I totally agree. No standard would allow WHITE. Nor Kennel Club/FCI, nor AKC.


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

diana_D said:


> To me it's the Kennel Club standard that matters - the only one. And I was merely pointing out that cream is indeed a perfectly acceptable color (not for AKC, of course).
> But I guess if any of the people who want a cream GR in US should know they might not successfully show their dog.
> I really have no problem with this color, but I totally understand the frustration related to unscrupulous breeders who advertise their dogs in such a way in order to sell those pups at incredible prices. Most are of such poor quality...
> As a side note, here in Europe we can tell if a breeder is serious if he/she is involved in showing. This ,and long talks with them over the phone made me decide on my breeder. Perhaps pointing this to people who want to buy a Golden might help a lot more than starting for the nth time with the endless debate of cream color.


*cream*    
*–noun *1.the fatty part of milk, which rises to the surface when the liquid is allowed to stand unless homogenized.2.a soft solid or thick liquid containing medicaments or other specific ingredients, applied externally for a prophylactic, therapeutic, or cosmetic purpose.3.Usually, *creams.* a soft-centered confection of fondant or fudge coated with chocolate.4.a purée or soup containing cream or milk: _cream of tomato soup. _5.the best part of anything: _the cream of society. _6.a yellowish white; light tint of yellow or buff.



Here is where it truly is a matter of semantics - the US standard requires that there be gold in the coat. The UK standard states "cream', which by definition contains yellow. So, they are not all that different. BOTH standards do not allow white. 

As for a "cream" dog not winning in the US, that's not true. There are several top US kennels that have done very well with European ,"cream" colored dogs, not the least being Malagold. Clairecrest is another. Beaumaris yet another. A GOOD DOG will win. Color, as long as there IS gold (cream, yellow, buff...) will not discount a GOOD DOG.


----------



## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

Happy Friday everyone. Just checking in and reading through posts. I have to agree with Hank. I love the darker Golden's too. Most likely because I'm a sucker for red heads and Sam was my first love. I'm sure he ruined me for the lighter Golden's forever. Whatever their color, I can't think of a more beautiful, loving, empathetic, and joyful breed. 

To the OP, I hope you find your new best friend very soon, whatever color he or she maybe be. Good luck.


----------



## historicprim (Nov 24, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> We all have traits we like- not just limited to color.
> 
> I like a TON of coat (in any shade) and I prefer a straight, thick coat... I do like darker, but I like them to have super blonde feathering on a deep, dark golden body. Love that contrast. And so forth...
> 
> My Golden is blonde...


Thats how I really really like them also, boy are they beautiful in the sunlight!


----------



## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Just to let everyone know. In the puppy buyer checklist there is a thread in it to include about the misconceptions about the term "creme" or "english". It is a good read for anyone looking for a puppy. I give that to everyone and the GRCA website.


----------



## twinny41 (Feb 13, 2008)

Gee, I would just like a golden regardless of what colour they are advertised as!


----------



## chesneygirl007 (Nov 5, 2007)

I have one of these dogs. He is 11 months old. I guess you would call him creme in color. He does look almost white until you put him up against the snow or white piece of paper, then you see the difference in color. His name is Cheyenne and yes I did purchase him for the color but I have had goldens before so I knew what I was looking for as far as temperment and health. He has been a pleasure to have. I love him to death. I would post a picture of him but I am at work and dont have any pictures here to upload. If anyone wants me to post a picture I will do that when I get home.

Kim


----------



## MaxwellSmart (Aug 11, 2008)

I have family members that are starting their own kennel to breed this infamous "english" golden. They just got 1 female about a month ago and they're separating Goldens as if they are 2 different breeds. They're saying that they are calmer, easier to train. etc... 
They've had 2 so called "American" Goldens (and actually bred 1 of them which is where my Max came from). 
I've done a small amount of research looking for these so-called differences. And honestly except for some breed standards refering to KC and AKC (which just states GOLDEN RETRIEVER) there aren't any. 

And I'm confused when people differentiate Goldens with English lines from Goldens from American lines. If Goldens originated in Scotland aren't they both from english lines? I read that for a Golden to be classifed as English it must have 25% bloodlines from overseas. I don't know, I'm having trouble grasping the concept. 

And if the "English" and "American" names are just from where the parents are from...then a litter whose parents are from Pennsylvania should be known as Pennsylvanian Goldens??? lol


----------

