# Sell me dog food!



## ozzy (Nov 12, 2010)

This has probably been asked a gazillion times and I've done some searching on the forums but I need someone to basically sell me on a dog food brand!
Convince me! Tell me why I should get the brand you recommend and the benefits for Mambo. 
There is a crap load of different dog food brands out there and it's overwhelming my husband to the point where he just wants to pick up a big bag of the Kirkland brand. HELP!

Keep in mind, I reside in Northern California so not all brands may be available in my location.


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

I've actually heard that the Kirkland brand dog food isn't bad. lol Enzo is on Fromm's 4 star line. I really like that they haven't had any recalls and their food is made in a family-owned plant in Wisconsin that ONLY makes dog food. That said, there are other foods that I liked that Enzo tried that just didn't sit well with his stomach or we didn't choose for some other reason. Our "breeder" never weaned him, so we put him on puppy formula when we first brought him home. Then we tried Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy, but he just wasn't interested in it. Looking back on that now, I'm thinking that it was because he just wanted us to go back to the formula. lol His coat looked great on it and all that jazz. We needed to get him something he'd eat because he's a skinny-mini, so we changed him to Blue Buffalo, which we liked until they changed the formula that Enzo was eating. The new one gave him diarrhea, but I think that was just because we didn't really get a chance to do a slow transition. I also tried Chicken Soup, but that also gave him diarrhea after awhile. He's been on the Fromm for about 4 months now and so far, so good. His coat is great, his eyes are clear, his teeth are super white, his weight is healthy and it's all lean muscle. I also really like that they have a bunch of flavors in the 4 star line that you can switch between freely once the dog is transitioned to that food. It's an all life stages food, so it "grows" with them. But that's just what works for us...it's not necessarily what will work for you.


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

I wouldn't want to "sell" you on a dog food. What works for my dog may not work for yours. With that said, I like to see meat as the first 3 or 4 ingredients and no corn. I like a variety of natural ingredients rather than chemicals and words I can't even pronounce. 

People feed different brands for different reasons. I believe there is no one perfect commercial food. Do some research, and considering your budget and availability of the food, chose one (or more) to try. The one that your dog thrives on is the one to choose.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

I,ll sell you mine.

Did you look into Raw dog food?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Willow52 said:


> I wouldn't want to "sell" you on a dog food. What works for my dog may not work for yours. With that said, I like to see meat as the first 3 or 4 ingredients and no corn. I like a variety of natural ingredients rather than chemicals and words I can't even pronounce.


Same here<:

One thing though is I will make allowances with corn, since my dog isn't allergic to it. My concerns are more based on how nutritious I think corn is for my dogs (not much). 

So if a kibble only has corn gluten in it and I like the rest of the ingredients, then I will feed my dog this food. 

Corn meal is somewhere in the middle and verging on unacceptable, but as long as it's not the first ingredient and it outnumbered by 2 or 3 meat sources, then I will see. 

Ground corn - no. 

And I don't want to see any kibble where corn is listed more often than meat. <- I'm thinking about a certain kibble I used to feed my dogs that has something like "meat by-products" listed as meat. And then it had ground corn and corn meal listed. <- So this was essentially a corn based kibble. 

The kibble I feed my guys has three different meat/protein sources (chicken, lamb, and salmon). And a LOT of rice. <- Some dogs are allergic to rice, but mine aren't. Since I give rice to my dogs when they are having digestive issues (because it's bland, etc), then it's a good thing. 

I don't mind limited meat sources, providing they have a LOT of that meat in the kibble. I don't want my dog to be eating a vegetarian diet.


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## OrdinaryEllen (Jun 20, 2010)

*so much information*

and lots of debate about food. It's something I've worried about.

Keeping in mind that I know very little about this, I think it's very important that your dog enjoy his food. How sad it would be to go through life hating your food.

Next, I believe you need to see a good healthy reaction to whatever food you choose. By that I mean normal digestion, output, normal stool, etc.

Then equally important to those two criteria, is choosing a food that promotes the health of your dog. This is constantly debated on the forum. Lots of different opinions.

I feed Piper Earthborn Holistic Pimitive Natural GrainFree. He loves it.
He gets tons of store bought treats. Some fruit. Peanut butter in his kong. Some pumpkin. I'm always open to ideas about how to improve his diet.


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## GinnyinPA (Oct 31, 2010)

Why is corn bad? Since so many commercial dogfoods use it, and have used it for years, I assume dogs generally do well with it. The peoples of the Americas lived on corn for millenia. Is it something to do with Golden digestion?


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I won't sell you on a food either. I agree with Willow 52 except I don't have an opinion on corn. 

For me, with Toby, I went through at least 5 dog foods, some by major manufacturers that many on this forum relish in bashing, others considered "holistic" and top of the line by many. None of them worked for him. Specifically, my dog lacked energy and had very soft poops. He was also recently diagnosed with pre-hypertension so I needed a low sodium food. I finally found with a formula that works perfectly for us. I won't disclose what it is though  because everyone needs to make their own decisions for what works best for the individual dog. I read a *lot* of labels and determined what things I wanted in the food to help his individual requirements. 

The consideration does not stop with the food. You also need to carefully consider dog treats and the ingredients in those as well. For us, and due to my dog's individual health concerns ( the pre-hypertension), we went salt-free, which pretty much elminates most processed treats, as well as most (not all) peanut butters.

I just retested Toby's blood pressures last weekend and I'm happy to say he is improving, thanks in large part to his new dietary lifestyle. What works for him may not be necessary for another dog. That's why it is so individual.

I am reading a good book on dog food manufacturing and nutrition by Marion Nestle Phd--very enlightening.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

GinnyinPA said:


> Why is corn bad? Since so many commercial dogfoods use it, and have used it for years, I assume dogs generally do well with it. The peoples of the Americas lived on corn for millenia. Is it something to do with Golden digestion?


It gets a bad rap for reasons that really aren't based in sound nutritional science. It's roughly equivalent in nutritive content to any other grain, and in a reasonable amount, it can be a healthy and appropriate ingredient in dog food.


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## Everything's Golden (Nov 1, 2010)

Whatever works for your dog and your wallet!

I wouldn't mind promoting my brand though..Chicken Soup for the Puppy Lover's Soul because it is pretty inexpensive for a dog food that has meat for the first few ingredients (it has more than one kind of meat source too so they get used to the different sources like chicken, duck, and fish) and it doesn't have wheat, corn, or soy in case your puppy doesn't do well with those. It must taste ok cause Matilda eats it all up.

BUT it is not easy to find. If you go to the website you can punch in your zip code.
Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover's Soul : Dealer Locator


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I won't sell you my particular brand, but I will encourage you to be careful when reading claims about bad ingredients. They're often mostly or totally unfounded. 

Byproducts, for example, are a great ingredient. They include organ meat and ground bone, so they provide a wider variety of nutrients than meat meal or meat. Byproducts contain glucosamine, chondroitin, phosphorus, and calcium in higher proportions than muscle meat does (not that there's anything wrong with meat).

My dog's food, for example, has chicken meat and chicken byproduct meal as the first two ingredients, and I'm very happy to see that.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

GinnyinPA said:


> Why is corn bad? Since so many commercial dogfoods use it, and have used it for years, I assume dogs generally do well with it. The peoples of the Americas lived on corn for millenia. Is it something to do with Golden digestion?


It's a filler. Some people think it can be indigestible for dogs and cause collitis issues. For some dogs, not all. My golden was on a kibble that had corn gluten in it, and I didn't really notice much difference in his digestion. That said, he's never been on a kibble that has anything more than gluten, so I'm not sure what kind of reaction his digestive system would have. 

Our first golden was on a certain brand dog food that had a LOT of corn in it and very little meat. That first golden did fine on it. Except, he did die when he was 6 from renal failure. I don't exactly believe the food caused that to happen, but it probably made things worse. 

Anyway, our goldens that followed were put on a completely different kibble that was a bit higher quality. But they were the ones who had collitis and kidney issues a LOT that first year. And that was even when we tried a lamb and rice bag of this food. 

So we switched to a different type of kibble that did not have as much corn and was one of the first to be touting natural products, etc... and it did make a huge difference with our goldens. 

I've read other stuff about corn possibly causing cancer or something like that. I'm not sure what to think of that. 

I find it easier to believe the mendione (synthetic K) thing that's put in all kibble causing liver damage and cancer... because there is actually some science behind it. I think they are limiting how much gets into the food though, so it's open debate whether it would have the same effect. If it did, probably we would be hearing a lot more about it, since there are so many kibbles that use this additive. Even those that do not have it on the bag. <- I think I read somewhere that if a manufacturer did not put the additive in the food themselves, they do not have to pu it on the back of the bag. But it could be in the ingredients that came from suppliers, etc. (the same is true of other additives, like ethoxyquin, for example).

For that matter, I read something recently that even if you feed your dogs raw or barf, you still aren't getting away from the mendione thingy, because the animals your dog's eating probably were fed grain or whatever with that stuff in it. :uhoh:


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## Katie and Paddy's Mum (Mar 31, 2010)

I too wouldn't even dream of trying to sell you on a particular food or feeding choice (kibble, raw or home-cooked). Food choice is really a very individual one, and what works for one dog often doesn't work for another. You will see a wide range of opinions regarding what to feed.

I did, however see that your dog is only one month old. Here is the best piece of advice I can give you at the moment. As long as your dog is doing well on the dog food that he was weaned on from your breeder, I would stick with that food for at least the first year of Mambo's life. I made the ultimate mistake of being a food snob in the first year of Katie and Paddy's life by trying to switch to holistic foods that I thought had better ingredient lists (after reading websites like dogfoodanalysis.com)...and they had all sorts of stool issues. I mean, terrible issues. They both also contracted giardia, so that really contributed to the problem.

If you go onto the puppy threads, the biggest issue (other than being a landshark!) is diarrhea in their dogs. And it often is a result of trying to change foods too often (not always!). 

During the first year of your dogs life, he is going to be taken from his littermates, de-wormed, vaccinated ... all very stressful for the body and his immature immune system. Why mess around with the food too? If he is doing well on what he is currently eating, I would recommend using it for a year and then when his digestive system is a little more mature you can consider switching (if desired).

I really feel sometimes, that with all the hype about foods and food ingredients on the web, that we all second guess our food choices. The key test for a puppy, to see whether he/she is doing well on a food is to look at their eyes, teeth, energy levels, and stool. If all are good, stick with what you're doing. Try not to get too sucked into the food debates. You will only continue to second guess yourself! I still do daily!!

Hope that helps!!

Kim


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Megora said:


> It's a filler.


There's no official definition of "filler," but corn isn't one, so far as I'm concerned. Calling something "filler" seems to indicate that it takes up space in the food without providing nutrition, and that does not describe corn.



Megora said:


> Our first golden was on a certain brand dog food that had a LOT of corn in it and very little meat. That first golden did fine on it. Except, he did die when he was 6 from renal failure. I don't exactly believe the food caused that to happen, but it probably made things worse.


It probably made things better, actually. The first line of defense for kidney failure is to reduce protein, so a low protein food would extend a dog's quality life on failing kidneys. High protein doesn't cause kidney issues, but once the kidneys have reduced function, protein can make it worse.




Megora said:


> I've read other stuff about corn possibly causing cancer or something like that. I'm not sure what to think of that.


It's totally absurd and not based at all in any kind of research or sound science.



Megora said:


> I find it easier to believe the mendione (synthetic K) thing that's put in all kibble causing liver damage and cancer... because there is actually some science behind it. I think they are limiting how much gets into the food though, so it's open debate whether it would have the same effect.


Menadione has been tested extensively in the amounts that are added to animal feed and has repeatedly been found to be harmless. Like many vitamins and vitamin precursors, it's toxic in high doses. Vitamin D is similarly poisonous at megadose levels, but nobody objects to it.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I'd add another piece of advice: Large Breed Puppy foods are a good idea for Golden Retrievers. They have lower levels of calcium and phosphorus, since excessive amounts of those nutrients have been linked to bone problems in fast growing dogs. GRs aren't high risk for these problems, but it doesn't hurt.

It's also important to keep a puppy lean so growth is slow. That protects bones and joints even more than the LBP nutrient ratios.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I'm not going to sell you on a food, but my advice would be 1) to watch for the calciumhosphorus ratio, as tippykayak mentioned above; 2) find a protein level you're comfortable with for your pup and pay attention to protein levels when looking at foods; 3) make sure that the company does not use ethoxyquin as a preservative in the fish meal used in the food (with the caveat that at this point most brands I considered have come out and said that they do not use fish meal with ethoxyquin); 4) if your dog is doing well on a food don't switch because of marketing mumbo jumbo; 5) as tippy said above, either feed large breed puppy food or consider an all life stages food (that way you don't need to switch again) to promote slow growth; and 6) don't switch up your dog's food because you think they need variety. That's all I have. Good luck!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Menadione has been tested extensively in the amounts that are added to animal feed and has repeatedly been found to be harmless. Like many vitamins and vitamin precursors, it's toxic in high doses. Vitamin D is similarly poisonous at megadose levels, but nobody objects to it.


*nods* 

I think the thing that concerns me a little is that bit about not needing to report if they did not put the menadione (or any chemicals) into the food themselves. To me this means there are faint traces of it in the food before companies inject more in. :uhoh: And while that still isn't harmless in those minimal amounts, there haven't been long term studies. 

Then again, I've never had a dog with liver damage (outside of the golden with renal failure at the point when his body was starting to fail). And I've had two goldens live to be 13. 

@corn - I'm thinking filler based on um... very unscientific observation. When my dogs have gotten leftovers which included boiled corn. I generally notice the corn pieces in the poop the next day. The body apparently does not use it. :uhoh:

ETA - oh, I just double checked an old ingredients list of that kibble we switched our #2 and #3 goldens on after their mutual collitis disasters in their early life... it had no corn products in it, but was otherwise similar to the kibble they were on previously. That's why I pick on corn so much, because there wasn't much else difference between the food they had been on prior and to the replacement kibble. They were both lamb and rice, etc.


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## LincolnsMom (Sep 28, 2010)

I'm not going to sell you on a food because like every parent here; Its all about what you are able to afford and what your puppy is good on. But what I will do is make a recommendation to stay away from Iams. Simply because of all the recalls.

I feed Lincoln Orijen Large Breed puppy. It is all natural using free range animals and eggs. I also like it because it is 100% China free which is where the chemicals came from that killed all the animals in 2007.

Thats my recommendation. Orijen though I swear is the most expensive out there -maybe because I feed it lol- For us in Hamilton Ont. We pay close to 70$ a bag; but because there are no fillers he doesn't go through it as fast as he would through say pedigree. We are very lucky to be in a situation that this food is something we can give Linc. So those are the pro's and cons of the food I feed; he seems to like it and gobbles it down 


Have you considered Raw feeding too? I'm thinking about making a switch.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> but because there are no fillers he doesn't go through it as fast as he would through say pedigree


This is where "fillers" confuses me. Simply because I briefly tried a kibble that boasted about not having any fillers. <- What I discovered is that I had to feed twice as much just so my dog stopped frantically begging for food and digging at the food container and running over to said container every time anyone looked at him. It was horrible. And it wasn't because the food was so good, but because he was starving. 

So a "filler" isn't necessarily a bad thing...


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Megora said:


> @corn - I'm thinking filler based on um... very unscientific observation. When my dogs have gotten leftovers which included boiled corn. I generally notice the corn pieces in the poop the next day. The body apparently does not use it. :uhoh:


What you're seeing is the husk of the corn, just as you would in human feces. That part is not digested, but the body does access the meat of the corn. It's even easier with corn that's been ground or otherwise broken down. The presence of what looks like corn in a dog's stool doesn't mean that he hasn't digested it.

In fact, roughage like that is quite good for us and our dogs. Whole grains are better partly because they include all of the grain, not just the carbs.


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## Blondie (Oct 10, 2009)

IMHO Learn as much as you can about your own dog. When it comes to dog food, it's all trial and error. You will find what works for your dog and your wallet. You can compare costs per pound and learn about about ingrediants used in the manufacturing. Check out the foods your interested, where they are made, how they are made, contact the manufacturer by email or phone to answer your questions. I think initially I had a list of 20 dogfoods. I then narrowed it down to 10 and just kept eliminating based on all of my information. 
On a more comical note, when it comes to corn...I do believe IMVHO, that corn is a filler. Corn is great for cows. Cows have four stomaches and if it isn't digested after all of that, then I wouldn't know what to think. Our joke around the house during corn season, is, it's only a rental. As a nurse, I know when my patients have had corn. Something that passes through you undigested, is filler in my book.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

tippykayak said:


> What you're seeing is the husk of the corn, just as you would in human feces. That part is not digested, but the body does access the meat of the corn. It's even easier with corn that's been ground or otherwise broken down. The presence of what looks like corn in a dog's stool doesn't mean that he hasn't digested it.


Nope.  

Keep in mind I'm not exactly analyzing the dog's poop when I pick up after them, but I do know the difference between an empty corn husk and one that's not empty. And when my guys eat corn, I usually find the corn pieces, undigested, in the poop the next day.


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## TomCat'sGirl (Aug 27, 2010)

We chose blue buffalo for Cash and he seem's to be doing just fine on it "but" there are some dogs on the forum who have not done well on this brand. We chose it just because my breeder suggested no wheat,corn or soy (She was feeding Diamond Naturals but I couldn't find it).I have stuck with this rule with Cash even on his dog treats. He does get a bite of "human" food every now and then. He's growing nicely and his caot is soft and somewhat shiney he's still a pup. I think that there is alot of good brands out there it's just a matter of how your pup will respond to it. With that said I would start out with the smallest bag and see how it goes. What is the pup currently eating?


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

We worry so much about our dogs getting corn in their diet--how many of us take the same amount of time to consider all the corn and corn based products are in the processed foods we eat? Just food for thought....


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Dallas Gold said:


> We worry so much about our dogs getting corn in their diet--how many of us take the same amount of time to consider all the corn and corn based products are in the processed foods we eat? Just food for thought....


I do! 

The difference between people and dogs would be we choose to eat what we do. If it bothers us once and even slightly, we will not eat it again. 

With dogs, they really have no choice in the matter and obviously can't voice objections about minor problems, so we don't generally know anything is wrong until the adverse reaction is already exasperated. Basically.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

We may choose to eat what we do, but how many people actually spend the time to read the food label to see what additives and other things are added to their foods and then research what they are and what they actually do? It seems to me if people actually researched all the unfamiliar words on the food labels of their favorite processed foods we might see fewer issues with obesity and the related health consequences..... I know--off topic! :doh: and yes, is a pet peeve of mine how our human food industry is potentially harming our health with all these added sugars, sodiums and preservatives. Off topic, off topic...


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

There are more types of mold on corn because if the size of stalk and ears


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

Tia is doing well on Taste of the Wild. I switched her to a grain-free food due to chronic ear infections before we adopted her; she has had none since the switch.


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

This puppy is only 5 weeks, right? So isn't it still with it's mom and littermates? I sure hope so. If it is you will want to talk to the breeder about what she is feeding and suggests at least at first so you don't upset the little tummy too much.


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## ozzy (Nov 12, 2010)

Thank you all for your response. I really appreciate it. My breeder feeds the puppies kirkland super premium puppy chicken, rice and veg. mixed with kirkland lamb rice wet formula and gerber baby rice. She feeds all her adult dogs the kirkland brand and occasionally some wet mixed in. I think this is what we're going to continue and see how mambo takes it. As he gets older we'll look into different kibbles. Again thank you for the responses!


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## OriJames (Jan 23, 2009)

I also wouldn't try to sell you any dog food brands, what's good for the goose, isn't always good for the gander. All I know is what Ori does well with and that's it's ten times better than what I had him on when he was a small puppy. At the time, I thought Pedigree was the best I could do because of my budget, until I found out that switch him to Royal Canin, while expensive, it lasted longer and would actually SAVE me money in the long run. It also was good for his joint support and helped him put on the extra weight he needed that the vet was concered about. His teeth are in perfect "textbook" health according to his vet, he's barely gotten sick since he's been absorbing better nutrients that he has more energy, a shinier coat and he's just all around happier. 

Find out the best for your dog, but do it on a slow basis (ie; don't switch foods too quickly, change them over a week to ten day period) but don't just settle for the "most recommended" or the fancier sounding brand. It's your dog's health, and different dog's even though the same breed, can have different needs to another.


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## Everything's Golden (Nov 1, 2010)

I've heard Kirklands is fine. Just look at the puppy's parents and see if they look healthy and happy since they are eating it.


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## harrym (Nov 13, 2010)

I used to feed a corn based kibble, but Lucy gained too much weight on it. She would eat it, but not vigorously. More often a bite or two in passing. I switched to Taste of the Wild Bison and Venison and Pacific Salmon blends, alternating them every other day. Lucy tucks in until every morsel is gone. She is starting to have a waist again. No difference in stools or coat -- both have always been good. Of course, she still gets Milk Bone treats, a half slice of bacon during my breakfast, and a fourth of a can of lamb and rice puppy food at bedtime. Why do my kids think she is spoiled?


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## Chelseanr (Oct 3, 2010)

ozzy said:


> Thank you all for your response. I really appreciate it. My breeder feeds the puppies kirkland super premium puppy chicken, rice and veg. mixed with kirkland lamb rice wet formula and gerber baby rice. She feeds all her adult dogs the kirkland brand and occasionally some wet mixed in. I think this is what we're going to continue and see how mambo takes it. As he gets older we'll look into different kibbles. Again thank you for the responses!



I feed Rowan the Kirkland puppy food; It's what my breeder was feeding him when he was a puppy as well. I tried to change him over to Ancana and he had the WORST gas and didn't like it at all (I think it was too hard) so I brought him back to the KL food. 

His mom and dad are both fed the KL food as well, and my breeder said Rowan's sire did much better on it than the ancana as well. Their coats are beautiful, and they're both lean, healthy looking dogs.

And at $14/bag you can't really complain :] And I do like the ingredient list which wasn't massively different from any other premium brand that sells for $60-80/bag.


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## JakeJessy (Oct 9, 2010)

The problem with corn is the perception that it has no nutritional value. People believe that humans just poop it out. It's true that corn is a *starchy* vegetable and therefore has more carbohydrates and calories than other veggies. But it is a good source of fiber and protein. I also think it gets a bad rap because of the price. Corn could be the number one ingredient because it's cheaper than most other ingredients, so therefore it must be "bad" for your dog?? I remember the dog trainer at PetSmart. She made each of us get the dog food off the shelf that we used and systematically pointed to all the brands that were "not good" because the number one ingredient was corn. I felt proud at the time because be used Ultra.

One thing you should avoid are cheap "treats" from China like Dingo. There are sound reasons why this stuff and other dog food products from China are no good. 

As for food, my Goldens love *Dick Van Patten's* Natural Balance. They can't get enough of it.


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## grcharlie (Nov 10, 2007)

2Retrievers222 said:


> I,ll sell you mine.
> 
> Did you look into Raw dog food?


Your sure stocked up......how long does that amount last? With my 3 dogs it looks like a two week supply?


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

grcharlie said:


> Your sure stocked up......how long does that amount last? With my 3 dogs it looks like a two week supply?


40 days. 2lbs each a day. 2% of 100lb dog. They weigh 119,132lbs.
3 dogs would be harder, unless they are lite.


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