# Metronidazole -- long term use



## guild.tom

Mollie, my six year old golden, was diagnosed with inflammatory bowel disease before she was a year old. She also has a bunch of allergies and is on shots as well as being on a limited diet -- sweet potato and fish dry food. Mollie is a beautiful dog and appears and acts like she is quite healthy. 

I have found it necessary to give her a minute (250 mg) dosage of metronidazole once every three days to insure "good poop". I have attempted to take her off the metronidazole and substitute plain low-fat yogurt or pro-biotics to maintain good intestinal health. They simply do not work.

The vets at the clinic I take Mollie to really do not understand why such a low dosage of results in the good intestinal health...but it does.

My questions: Have any of you experiences the same phenomena? I do know the side effects metronidazol. Mollie has none of the symptoms associated with them. Do you think that long term use of metronidazole is going to be harmful at the low dosage?

Tom


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## Dallas Gold

guild.tom said:


> Mollie, my six year old golden, was diagnosed with inflammatory bowel disease before she was a year old. She also has a bunch of allergies and is on shots as well as being on a limited diet -- sweet potato and fish dry food. Mollie is a beautiful dog and appears and acts like she is quite healthy.
> 
> I have found it necessary to give her a minute (250 mg) dosage of metronidazole once every three days to insure "good poop". I have attempted to take her off the metronidazole and substitute plain low-fat yogurt or pro-biotics to maintain good intestinal health. They simply do not work.
> 
> The vets at the clinic I take Mollie to really do not understand why such a low dosage of results in the good intestinal health...but it does.
> 
> My questions: Have any of you experiences the same phenomena? I do know the side effects metronidazol. Mollie has none of the symptoms associated with them. Do you think that long term use of metronidazole is going to be harmful at the low dosage?
> 
> Tom


I recently read the side effects for the antibiotic and one thing stood out--long term use is associated with increased rates of cancer. That's one thing that stood out and made me think. We usually give it to our dog before swimming in a lake to prevent distress afterwards.


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## Tahnee GR

I found this article very informative. It discusses side effects but I don't recall seeing cancer as a side effect.

Metronidazole for Veterinary Use

There are some serious side effects listed, but when you are dealing with a chronic condition, you have to weigh the treatment against the disease. What are the results of untreated IBD, are there other drugs available and how well do they work, and what are their side effects. Metro is generally viewed as being a safe drug for long term use but there are exceptions to every rule.

I am on a lot of different meds for my diabetes and heart condition, and the side effects of most of them are enough to scare you to death! Unfortunately, the result of untreated diabetes is not good either


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## Dallas Gold

I scan in everything Toby related. Here is the part from the monograph that came from his most recent metro prescription:

*WARNING: Long-term use of this medicine has caused cancer in mice and rats."*

I don't know the dosages that caused this statement but it just gave me pause. Mice and rats are not dogs, but.....


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## guild.tom

I think that in Mollie's case, I need to take the risk. Her dosage is quite low. Why is Toby "on" metro? I think with IBD, Mollie is lucky that diet and a little bit of metro works for her.

Tom


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## Dallas Gold

Toby has some digestive enzyme issues (SIBO) and mild colitis at times. He tends to get ill after swimming in lakes so he was given short doses of the antibiotic as a preventive. It worked, but then we decided to not let him swim in lakes at all as the best prevention. 

This antibiotic is good for IBD. If I were in your shoes I'd probably take the risk as well.

Have you had the digestive testing (from the Texas A&M lab) done on your girl? Is it possible she has SIBO or EPI? Soft stools were our major clue something was wrong with Toby. We are treating him with B-12 (high dose) injections. His retest is in early August. His stool is improving with this treatment.

Here are some links:
Cobalamin: Diagnostic use and therapeutic considerations - Texas A&M Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences
SIBO - EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency
B12 - EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency

It's my understanding the A&M Gastro Lab is the "expert" lab for digestive issues.


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## BayBeams

One of the problems with long term use of an antibiotic is they can become ineffective after a while as the bug they are treating can become resistant to the medication. I don't know specifically if that is a major problem with this particular drug. My cat is currently taking this medication for 10 days for a digestive issue and my vet advised me to avoid using it long term. Of course a cat is not the same as a dog but just a caution to consider.


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## guild.tom

At six months when Mollie was spayed, my vet took a tissue sample of her intestine and sent it to the College Veterinary Medicine and Biomedical Sciences, Colorado State University. They are the ones who diagnosed IBD.

I really watch Mollie's diet and what she ingests. We live on an acreage but she is not allowed to roam. Given the chance she will eat almost anything. Her companion, Willie (my other golden), joins right in in her culinary escapades.

I don't know whether it is metronidazole's antibiotic or anti-inflammatory properties that control the IBD symptoms. She has been on the low dosage of metronidazole for five years. There have been periods of time when she has been off of it for several weeks at a, but eventually she "needs" it again.

The usual dose to clear up bacterial infection is 500 mg twice a day for ten days so her dose is minimal at 250 mg every three days. 

I wish that I understood this better, but I don't and neither do the vets.

Tom


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## Dallas Gold

guild.tom said:


> I wish that I understood this better, but I don't and neither do the vets.
> 
> Tom


This digestive system stuff is sure mystifying for both dogs and humans. IBD is not really understood all that well. It's being diagnosed more often too in humans. What works for one person doesn't for the second. 

I know of someone else on the forum with an IBD dog. I'll send her a message and maybe she can provide some input.


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## guild.tom

Thanks.

Tom


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## Belle's Mom

Thanks Dallas Gold for pointing this thread out to me.

Tom - My Belle has IBD also. Belle was on Metronidazole off and on prior to her diagnosis several years ago. It helped her when she had flair ups as well. I never really looked at long term usage effects, etc.


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## Dallas Gold

Do you give Molly omega 3 fatty acid supplements by any chance? They have great anti-inflammatory effects but tend to soften stools. We ended up reducing Toby's dosing of it due to the effect on his stool. I was torn because the omega 3s do have wonderful anti-inflammatory properties.


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## Dallas Gold

I heard this in passing a few months ago and just googled it. There is a new antibiotic that is being tested and is showing remarkable results in IBS treatment. It's called Rifaximin. Here is a link to a NPR article on it: Antibiotic Shows Promise As Treatment For Irritable Bowel Syndrome : Shots - Health Blog : NPR
Not sure if the FDA approved it being marketed for IBS or not. 
I'm also not sure if this drug is safe for canines--but if it is it sounds like it will treat SIBO as well!
Check out the cost--$22 a pill...or $910 for the 14 day treatment. If it would help Toby or a loved one, I'd definitely do it and just eat pork and beans for years to pay for it.


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## jackie_hubert

Dallas Gold said:


> I heard this in passing a few months ago and just googled it. There is a new antibiotic that is being tested and is showing remarkable results in IBS treatment. It's called Rifaximin. Here is a link to a NPR article on it: Antibiotic Shows Promise As Treatment For Irritable Bowel Syndrome : Shots - Health Blog : NPR
> Not sure if the FDA approved it being marketed for IBS or not.
> I'm also not sure if this drug is safe for canines--but if it is it sounds like it will treat SIBO as well!
> Check out the cost--$22 a pill...or $910 for the 14 day treatment. If it would help Toby or a loved one, I'd definitely do it and just eat pork and beans for years to pay for it.


I wonder if insurance would cover that...I think mine would...

Cosmo was diagnosed with cryposporidium and clostridium at 5 months old and had diarrhea for pretty much the next half year. The vet and me suspected IBD when subsequent tests showed nothing unusual. When he started loosing weight and still couldn't eat anything (not even rice) without having soft stool we tried hills z/d which instantly caused him to be constipated. We added some veggies for fibre. A month later he accidentally got in some raw food and to our great surprise he handled it just fine (we had tried raw diet some months back and it caused massive diarrhea). We are now on a 50% raw, 50% z/d diet. He's doing well although the z/d does give him ear infections and a bad coat (a common concern with this specific food) but the raw is helping that. 

I would not feed z/d - or as we call it "vitamin sprayed cardboard" - long term or exclusively but it has it's place to calm things down. 


Somehow the z/d


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## just ducky

I realize this thread is from last year, but I was doing a google search and dscovered this discussion. Our 5 year old English Setter was having bouts of vomiting and/or loose stools or diarrhrea, and after trying to diagnose and treat it, our vet finally threw up his hands and sent us to Michigan State Unversity Vet school for complete diagnosis, which ended up including surgical biopsies. They finally came back with IBD. And since as you have said IBD is so difficult to deal with, the best treatment they could offer is when he has a flare up of vomiting/diarrhea, we give him Metro for about 10 days, sometimes combined with Reglan if the vomiting persists. Over the last 3 months he's had this three times, but now it's becoming more often that within a few days of discontinuing the drugs, he has another bout. So I was reading this thread and wondering about a regular dose of Metro such as guild.tom has done. You say you've been doing this for several years now. Any real side effects you've noticed? My other question is our dog often vomits a day or two before having diarrhea. Have any of you experienced the vomiting first thing? Thanks.

Dan


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## Megora

Do you have your dog on a prescription diet? Flagyl alone is not ideal, especially for long term use. Worst case scenario, the flagyl will cause damage to the liver. It also is one of those meds that becomes less effective with long term use.


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## just ducky

Megora said:


> Do you have your dog on a prescription diet? Flagyl alone is not ideal, especially for long term use. Worst case scenario, the flagyl will cause damage to the liver. It also is one of those meds that becomes less effective with long term use.


Yes, MSU put him on a prescription diet way back to try to rule out food allergies...Royal Canin duck and potato. He's been on it for about a year now. 

I realize that anti-biotics such as Flagyl can be less effective over time, and I've seen some of the reports about cancer in lab studies with mice. But that why I was curious about guild.tom's or anyone else's experiences? We're getting weary of this chronic vomiting/diarrhea and think we may try something similar to what guild.tom did (with our vet's approval of course).


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## lgnutah

My cat, who was always an indoor cat but wanted to be an outdoor one (he was always trying to get outside), was going back and forth between sometimes vomiting and more often having diarrhea. I tried every imaginable food change over a period of 2 years I think. The vet did treat with metrodinazole and it would clear up just a bit, but then went back. 
One day, after cleaning up diarrhea messes in a multitude of places in my house and down the sides of his litter boxes, I just couldn't take it anymore, so I let the cat be an outside cat during the day.
Guess what? Poop became completely normal within days of this change and there is no more vomiting (no medicine is being given). 
Frankly I think his system needed something-whether it was psychological or simply some food (rodents?) he eats when he is outside.


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## just ducky

Well there's a novel approach you've stumbled upon Ignutah. Our dog is a house dog, but we do take lots of walks and runs. But he's never out of our sight or off a lead, especially since the IBD diagnosis a year ago.


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## Megora

Which royal canin prescription bag is he eating? 

Our collie was switched to RC Gastrointestinal HE last year. While it seems better than the science diet prescription kibble he was on before (and did fine on) this food is chicken based and has all the nasty things you can imagine a dog being allergic to. The food is great though at settling his system down. He will have to eat this food for the rest of his life though, even while he has been doing well enough for us to feed him some of Jacks normal dog food for some meals. 

When our collie first started to have chronic bowel issues, he had to have flagyl every day. About this point, he only gets flagyl if he eats people food or eats something outside (which is why you don't want to just leave him outside unmonitored). He can have some of Jacks food and he gets things like milkbones without any hazard to his system. A lot of that was credit to the diet he is on.


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## Dallas Gold

Have you or your vet considered Tylan Powder in lieu of the flagyl? Tylan Powder is used for a lot of dogs with digestive enzyme issues. The powder is sprinkled on top of the food.


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## just ducky

Megora said:


> Which royal canin prescription bag is he eating? ....


It's royal canin hypoallergenic restricted protein, which is what MSU said was the most easily digested and best for possible food allergies. He's been on that exclusively for about a year.

He gets no other food of any kind...no treats, no scraps, not even a crumb. We watch him like a hawk. And he's on a leash or lead whenever he's outside with us in constant supervision. So we are about as sure as you can be that he's getting nothing in his mouth except the RC.


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## just ducky

Dallas Gold said:


> Have you or your vet considered Tylan Powder in lieu of the flagyl? Tylan Powder is used for a lot of dogs with digestive enzyme issues. The powder is sprinkled on top of the food.


Is this anything like Forti Flora? We've been adding that every few days in an attempt to get some good biotics in him too. Not sure it's helped, but he likes it.


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## Dallas Gold

just ducky said:


> Is this anything like Forti Flora? We've been adding that every few days in an attempt to get some good biotics in him too. Not sure it's helped, but he likes it.


No, this is actually an antibiotic in granular/powder form. I believe it was used in the equine community, but don't quote me on it. It's used for dogs with EPI and/or SIBO and my understanding is they can keep on it for life. It's worth asking about--I believe it's being prescribed more by small animal vets now too.


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## just ducky

Dallas Gold said:


> No, this is actually an antibiotic in granular/powder form. I believe it was used in the equine community, but don't quote me on it. It's used for dogs with EPI and/or SIBO and my understanding is they can keep on it for life. It's worth asking about--I believe it's being prescribed more by small animal vets now too.


Interesting. I'll bring it up with our vet next time we talk...which has been every few weeks lately. Thanks for the idea.


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## A1Malinois

Okay. I have to say I vouche for the Tylan powder. My Rottweiler had issues with IBD his whole life. I honestly do not recall a day where he had one normal poop. My vet put him on Flagyl (metronidazole) and suggested I use it long term. He was on a dose every other day (cannot remember the dose). Magically his poop was well. After researching I decided to take him off of it because I was hearing about some dogs having side effects after taking Flagyl and just up and dying on their owners. 

I researched into Tylan Powder, its commonly used for chicken coops etc. They come in powder and pill form (I prefer pill if you can find it). The issue with Flagyl is it kills ALL bacteria good and bad. It cannot decipher between good and bad bacteria. So really, your dogs gut likely has little to no healthy gut flora. 

If you cannot find the pill form you can buy the empty pill thingies at the drug store and fill them up with the correct dose yourself. 

Tylan powder worked wonders for my Rottie, in fact we didnt even have to keep him on the prescription diet anymore after we got results with the Tylan. Feeding a probiotic 2 hours AFTER the antibiotic is also a good idea.

Here is a link to the Tylan Powder http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=10935 to give you an idea of what it does and what it looks like


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## Sally's Mom

Tylan is used to treat resp infections in fowl. It is also the ingredient in Angel Eyes which changes the color of tear staining.


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## Megora

Sally's Mom said:


> Tylan is used to treat resp infections in fowl. It is also the ingredient in Angel Eyes which changes the color of tear staining.


That's the use I'm aware of. 

I didn't realize it helped digestion too. Is it antibiotic properties, or?


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## Sally's Mom

It's a macrolide. We were taught about it in school twenty five years ago. I have started to use it recently... It seems to be the local specialist favorite as well. Our GI professor LOVED it.


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## Dallas Gold

Here is a link to how tylan powder is used for dogs with pancreatic enzyme and B12 deficiencies:

EPI in Dogs

just ducky--here is a link to a clinical study going on right now through the Texas A&M veterinary school related to IBD. I don't know if you qualify still if your pup has been under treatment and is being managed now, but it doesn't hurt to email and ask: Canine Inflammatory Bowel Disease - Texas A&M Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences. You don't need to live near the school either--they pay for the shipping of everything.


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## just ducky

Dallas Gold said:


> Here is a link to how tylan powder is used for dogs with pancreatic enzyme and B12 deficiencies:
> 
> EPI in Dogs
> 
> just ducky--here is a link to a clinical study going on right now through the Texas A&M veterinary school related to IBD. I don't know if you qualify still if your pup has been under treatment and is being managed now, but it doesn't hurt to email and ask: Canine Inflammatory Bowel Disease - Texas A&M Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences. You don't need to live near the school either--they pay for the shipping of everything.


thanks. I'll see if we can get him involved. Would be nice if what we've gone through for the past year could help some other pet down the road.


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## just ducky

The best tactic with him that our vets have come up with is when he starts showing signs of diarrhea we go on Metro for 10 days. But we would sure like to find some regular treatment to be proactive instead of having to wait until he has a flare-up. We were considering putting him on Metro on a regular basis like some of you have done. But I have to say I'm impressed by what you've all said about Tylan powder, so I need to call our vet to get his thoughts. At this point, we're willing to try something instead of waiting until the next time he gets me up at 3 or 4 in the morning sick.


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## just ducky

Sally's Mom said:


> It's a macrolide. We were taught about it in school twenty five years ago. I have started to use it recently... It seems to be the local specialist favorite as well. Our GI professor LOVED it.


Sally's Mom - I take it you're a vet? Are you aware of any negative side effects of tylan powder? We've been considering putting him on a regular dose of metro like some here have said they do, but if tylan powder has fewer risks associated with long-term use, maybe it would be a better option?


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## just ducky

Lincoln_16 said:


> ....Feeding a probiotic 2 hours AFTER the antibiotic is also a good idea.


So you're saying you do Tylan powder regularly(how often...daily?), followed by a pro-biotic, such as Forti Flora? Our setter loves Forti-flora sprinkled on his food.


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## A1Malinois

Yeah, I would do a probiotic 2-3 hours after eating the Flagyl, this is because Flagyl kills bacteria...good and bad. So if feeding the probiotic at the same time as the Flagyl, the Flagyl essentially will kill the probiotic and your dog would be taking it for nothing. So wait 2-3 hours after taking a dose of Flagyl. 

Not sure about the Tylan and a probiotic. I would still wait a couple hours to be safe. Tylan is used daily I believe. At least it was on my Rottie


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## guild.tom

Good morning, all. I'm the original poster and was very surprised to see this thread "pop up" again.

Mollie is still doing just fine..lookin' good and lovin' life like only a golden can. Of course, Willie (golden #2) is always nearby to join in the good times. I now give Mollie 250 mg of metro once every five days and it seems to work. I have noticed no side effects from the metro. She has been on it now for almost 7 years. She is fed 1 1/4 cup of Natural Balance Salmon and Sweet Potato kibble twice daily I add a tablespoon of lowfat yogurt to each serving of food. Her snacks are either a few (really quite a few) pieces of the kibble or the salmon and sweet potato biscuits available from Natural Balance. Her very special treat is oven-baked venison pieces. I give Mollie an allergy shot once every three weeks. My vet believes that treating her variety of allergies with the shots might help her immune system better deal with the IBD. Mollie has never had a problem with vomiting. Loose stools was the major problem. 

Mollie gets plenty of exercise. I am retired and we (Mollie, Willie and I) walk 3-4 miles a day. The pups also have 1/2 acre of fenced play yard to romp in when I need to take a break from our walks.

Both pups have medical issues. Willie has allergies and a bit of hip dysplasia. I think they are pretty lucky to have an "old guy" who has the time and the resources to watch over them. But then I am darn lucky to have such wonderful companions in my retirement. I'm a retired elementary school principal and these two canine "kiddos" receive all the love and attention that a schoolhouse full of 500 rambunctious human "kiddos" received.

I very much appreciate the suggestions from my vet...diet, exercise, allergy shots and meds as needed. He and is colleagues still do not understand why the metro works in such a small dosage, but then nobody really understands IBD. 

The sun is up...time for our first major "cruise" of the day.

Tom


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## goldensmum

Good news like that is always good to hear.


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## just ducky

guild.tom said:


> Good morning, all. I'm the original poster and was very surprised to see this thread "pop up" again.
> 
> Mollie is still doing just fine..lookin' good and lovin' life like only a golden can. Of course, Willie (golden #2) is always nearby to join in the good times. I now give Mollie 250 mg of metro once every five days and it seems to work. I have noticed no side effects from the metro. She has been on it now for almost 7 years. She is fed 1 1/4 cup of Natural Balance Salmon and Sweet Potato kibble twice daily I add a tablespoon of lowfat yogurt to each serving of food. Her snacks are either a few (really quite a few) pieces of the kibble or the salmon and sweet potato biscuits available from Natural Balance. Her very special treat is oven-baked venison pieces. I give Mollie an allergy shot once every three weeks. My vet believes that treating her variety of allergies with the shots might help her immune system better deal with the IBD. Mollie has never had a problem with vomiting. Loose stools was the major problem.
> 
> Mollie gets plenty of exercise. I am retired and we (Mollie, Willie and I) walk 3-4 miles a day. The pups also have 1/2 acre of fenced play yard to romp in when I need to take a break from our walks.
> 
> Both pups have medical issues. Willie has allergies and a bit of hip dysplasia. I think they are pretty lucky to have an "old guy" who has the time and the resources to watch over them. But then I am darn lucky to have such wonderful companions in my retirement. I'm a retired elementary school principal and these two canine "kiddos" receive all the love and attention that a schoolhouse full of 500 rambunctious human "kiddos" received.
> 
> I very much appreciate the suggestions from my vet...diet, exercise, allergy shots and meds as needed. He and is colleagues still do not understand why the metro works in such a small dosage, but then nobody really understands IBD.
> 
> The sun is up...time for our first major "cruise" of the day.
> 
> Tom


Tom,

Well I'm the one who brought this thread to life again. I just googled "metronidazole long term" and this thread came up. We are dealing with our 5 year old English Setter, who was diagnosed in early October with IBD. Since then we've been trying to find a pattern to his flare ups, because his issues are not constant, nor regular. He can go several weeks, then he has a bad day. Because it's intermittent, our vet was hesitant to put him on a regular regimine of metro. He'd prefer to wait until he does have diarrhea or other signs of the IBD, then we give him metro for a week to 10 days. It's helped, but I'd really like to be proactive instead of just waiting for the next round to hit us. I'm encouraged by your experiences, and some of the others here too. I need to consult with our vet on regular metro use, and also about Tylan powder, which sounds like a good option to try too.

I'm glad your dog is doing well. Hopefully we can get similar results with ours.


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## just ducky

Dallas Gold said:


> Here is a link to how tylan powder is used for dogs with pancreatic enzyme and B12 deficiencies:
> 
> EPI in Dogs
> 
> just ducky--here is a link to a clinical study going on right now through the Texas A&M veterinary school related to IBD. I don't know if you qualify still if your pup has been under treatment and is being managed now, but it doesn't hurt to email and ask: Canine Inflammatory Bowel Disease - Texas A&M Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences. You don't need to live near the school either--they pay for the shipping of everything.


Dallas Gold - I contacte Texas A & M, and they are still accepting new patients into their study. They said I need to get my vet to enroll him. I plan to discuss that with him soon. Thanks again.


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## just ducky

Sorry for the duplicate message. I tried to delete it, but it wouldn't let me.


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## just ducky

Well, we woke up again this morning about 4:30 to a restless dog, and it sooned turned into diarrhea again. So I went to our vet and had a long discussion about some of the things you all have said. He has over 30 years experience in private practice, and has used metro a lot over that time, and he's never had a single case where the potential side-effects became an issue. Since we are basically experimenting and hoping to hit on a combination that works for him, he had no reservations whatsoever in trying this in an attempt to get a handle on his condition. So we are now giving him metro twice per day for three straight days, and then backing down to one dose every three days following that. We will also use forti flora, which our dog loves, a few hours after the metro. I'm hoping for some good results such as some of you have had. I had to laugh at his prescription, which ended with "250mg of metro daily forever". So wish us luck.

And also, I have been in contact with the researchers at Texas A & M about their IBD study, and our vet is going to contact them and get our dog into the study. If nothing else, possibly what we've been through could help other dogs.


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## A1Malinois

I really wouldnt keep your dog on Flagyl long term. I would really push to at least try the Tylan powder and if hes not willing to *I* would go to another vet for a second opinion. Thats just me though.


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## just ducky

Well we'll see how it goes. All I know is we really need to find something that works better than what we have been doing. And for now, this is something we can try. We did talk about Tylan powder today, and we may try that if we can get things settled down.


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## A1Malinois

The Tylan powder may be the one that settles every thing down. Tylan is used for Colitis and chronic diarrhea and will suppress the immune system in the intestines 

Where as Flagyl treats protozoal infections and anaerobic bacterial infections. It *can* be used to treat colitis etc but I prefer to use Tylan for that. My Rottie kept getting flare ups on the Flagyl, once put on the Tylan never had another flare up as long as he took his meds


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## just ducky

Lincoln_16 said:


> The Tylan powder may be the one that settles every thing down. Tylan is used for Colitis and chronic diarrhea and will suppress the immune system in the intestines
> 
> Where as Flagyl treats protozoal infections and anaerobic bacterial infections. It *can* be used to treat colitis etc but I prefer to use Tylan for that. My Rottie kept getting flare ups on the Flagyl, once put on the Tylan never had another flare up as long as he took his meds


I've followed some of the links that have been provided for Tylan, but what kind of dosage do you give and how often? Just wondering because that will probably be our next experiment if this one doesn't work.


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## A1Malinois

Tylosin (Tylan®) - Page 1

Dosage is on there


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## guild.tom

I have referred to this site frequently just as a good reminder. Inflammatory Bowel Disease 

You don't cure IBD. (I actually cried when my vet told me this.) You treat the symptoms just like you treat any other chronic disease. What you really need to do is everything that you can to promote good health and in the case of a dog with IBD you check every "pile of poop".

My Miss Mollie is almost seven and I expect to have her around for a lot more years.

Tom


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## MikaTallulah

OP - Have you tried Greek Yogurt? It seems to work great for my Buddy with his super sensitive, nervous tummy. No Immodium needed for 2 weeks.


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## just ducky

guild.tom said:


> I have referred to this site frequently just as a good reminder. Inflammatory Bowel Disease
> 
> You don't cure IBD. (I actually cried when my vet told me this.) You treat the symptoms just like you treat any other chronic disease. What you really need to do is everything that you can to promote good health and in the case of a dog with IBD you check every "pile of poop".
> 
> My Miss Mollie is almost seven and I expect to have her around for a lot more years.
> 
> Tom


Tom,

We've been through all of the emotions that go with diagnosis. The Vet School at Michigan State actually did the surgery/took biopsies to make the final diagnosis, and the post-op discussion began with "well there's good news and bad news..." It's nice to hear that all of the major issues were ruled out, yet to discover he has a chronic condition that has no cure, and is mostly a mystery to the veterinary community was tough to take with a young dog. But we've resigned ourselves to the fact that he will have this condition for the rest of his life, and that we can only do our best to adjust. Our family vet is very willing to try various treatments, and you all have given me lots of hope that we can possibly be a little more proactive instead of just reactive. He's also going to see if we can get our dog into the Texas A & M study. But yeah, this is an experiment in progress, and likely will be for the rest of his life. 

We've started him on a regular dosage of metro, and a nightly dose of forti flora a few hours later. I'll report back periodically on what results we see.


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## covertje2

11 month old English Cream Golden....sweet as can be. However, a month after getting Sampson we found out he had Giardia. About 1 week after finishing metro, he had the runs again. After extensive screening and 3 rounds of panacur and metro, they found Clostridium. Treated with metro and probiotics for 1 month and he was great for 4 months. Around Christmas he started having the runs again. Did a 2 week course of metro and he was great.....until 1 week after we finished. He's on it again for a month.

We feed him FROMM large breed (the vet recommends low residue, but I've heard negative comments about it), we quit giving him any rawhide, and he is fed no other food/treats. 

We do live by Lake Michigan, and there are ponds in our back yard(he does not go in or around the ponds). He is walked on a leash with an occasional run off leash on the trails out back. He LOVES to eat chunks of grass/dirt, sticks, goose poop, and berries. We watch him very carefully to prevent as much as this as possible. 

We have spent hundreds on trying to figure out what is going on. His last fecal was fine, even though he was having the runs still. My vet really thought as he got older he would be able to fight this stuff off better, and come out of this. He will be 1 Feb. 1st.

Aside from being exhausted letting him out all night long, and cleaning up diarrhea all over the house, I would really love to be able to let him out to run, bring him to daycare and dog parks, I'm just afraid we'll end up back to square one. We had a husky before,who ate anything and everything and was fine. Never had any of these issues. Also, the only time Sampson has had people food is when he took a half eaten piece of cheese pizza out of my daughters hands. He threw up later that day. 

Any thoughts, advise, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!


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## Karen519

*Tom*



guild.tom said:


> Mollie, my six year old golden, was diagnosed with inflammatory bowel disease before she was a year old. She also has a bunch of allergies and is on shots as well as being on a limited diet -- sweet potato and fish dry food. Mollie is a beautiful dog and appears and acts like she is quite healthy.
> 
> I have found it necessary to give her a minute (250 mg) dosage of metronidazole once every three days to insure "good poop". I have attempted to take her off the metronidazole and substitute plain low-fat yogurt or pro-biotics to maintain good intestinal health. They simply do not work.
> 
> The vets at the clinic I take Mollie to really do not understand why such a low dosage of results in the good intestinal health...but it does.
> 
> My questions: Have any of you experiences the same phenomena? I do know the side effects metronidazol. Mollie has none of the symptoms associated with them. Do you think that long term use of metronidazole is going to be harmful at the low dosage?
> 
> Tom


Tom: I think if Mollie was my dog and this small dosage helped her I would have to give it. There are risks to everything and human meds, too. Like Tahnee said, we have to weight what is best for us.


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## Dallas Gold

covertje2 said:


> 11 month old English Cream Golden....sweet as can be. However, a month after getting Sampson we found out he had Giardia. About 1 week after finishing metro, he had the runs again. After extensive screening and 3 rounds of panacur and metro, they found Clostridium. Treated with metro and probiotics for 1 month and he was great for 4 months. Around Christmas he started having the runs again. Did a 2 week course of metro and he was great.....until 1 week after we finished. He's on it again for a month.
> 
> We feed him FROMM large breed (the vet recommends low residue, but I've heard negative comments about it), we quit giving him any rawhide, and he is fed no other food/treats.
> 
> We do live by Lake Michigan, and there are ponds in our back yard(he does not go in or around the ponds). He is walked on a leash with an occasional run off leash on the trails out back. He LOVES to eat chunks of grass/dirt, sticks, goose poop, and berries. We watch him very carefully to prevent as much as this as possible.
> 
> We have spent hundreds on trying to figure out what is going on. His last fecal was fine, even though he was having the runs still. My vet really thought as he got older he would be able to fight this stuff off better, and come out of this. He will be 1 Feb. 1st.
> 
> Aside from being exhausted letting him out all night long, and cleaning up diarrhea all over the house, I would really love to be able to let him out to run, bring him to daycare and dog parks, I'm just afraid we'll end up back to square one. We had a husky before,who ate anything and everything and was fine. Never had any of these issues. Also, the only time Sampson has had people food is when he took a half eaten piece of cheese pizza out of my daughters hands. He threw up later that day.
> 
> Any thoughts, advise, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!


This is an old thread- I'd suggest making a new one so it's more visible to everyone! 

I have an IBD dog and it's a delicate balance with him. Since your pup is still young I wonder if you have a residual parasitic or giardia infection still. We do twice annual deworming on my 9 year old and we always do a full week of panacur followed by one dose of oral strongid. In any event talk to your vet about retesting, doing another round of deworming or testing for IBD. BTW, low residue food is our lifesaver. Our boy never did well on Fromms, which disappointed me!


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## A1Malinois

Has anyone suggested using Tylan powder? Thats suppose to be better then Metro. My friends dog is on it with great results.


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## Megora

Is your dog on a prescription diet? Like Royal Canin Gastro HE? Or something like that? If you get the digestive system issues semi calmed down you can back down from frequent use of the flagyl.


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## Dallas Gold

Yes, tylan powder is another good option. We were on it when Toby had a major colitis attack and ended up getting off of it. I put him back on a few days ago and he is holding his own again.


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## Shalva

Bing is on metronidizol every day and has been for about 4 years due to his shunt and keeping the bloodstream clean... we don't have a choice and it is what it is...


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## guild.tom

Good morning,

I'm the original poster. I just wanted to report that Mollie soon will soon be eight and is still receiving 250 mg of metrodinazole every four days. She exhibits no side effects. I continue to carefully monitor her food and give her shots for her allergies.

It appears that many of us have goldens (as well as other breeds) that have gastrointestinal problems. The best we can do is keep at it until we find something that works and is relatively safe.

By the way, Willie continues to be do well with his allergies and minor hip dysplasia.

The only thing better than one golden is two, right?

Tom


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## ssacres

Google-- L Glutamine for dogs with IBD. I use it for my girl with probiotics.


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## just ducky

I was also active in discussions here about a year ago about our then 5 year old English Setter Cooper who had been diagnosed with IBD. I was thinking about this site just now, so decided to check back in with an update.


After getting lots of advice from many of you about a year ago, having him go through exploratory surgery at Michigan State, and consulting many times with our vet, we started him on something very similar to that which guild.tom suggested (thank you by the way , and I'm glad that Mollie is a happy 8 now). Coopers regimine, odd as it sounds (I refer to it as his voodoo diet) is this...

a 250 mg dosage of Flagyl every third day in the morning with his breakfast.
the evening of the Flagyl dose, and the evening following, he gets a pack of Forti Flora sprinkled on his food.
twice each day he gets a 50 mg dose of Diphenhydramine.
He has been on this for nearly a year now, and all of the issues we were dealing with are basically gone. His stool has been perfect, there has been not one case of vomiting, there is no hesitation at meal time, I have not gotten up with him at 3 or 4 am with a gurgling stomach once, which was an almost daily occurence a year ago. 

As guild.tom had said once, I have no idea why this low dosage works, and neither does our vet, or the Michigan State Univ Vet School. Back a year ago when I first discussed this kind of an idea, they all said it was worth a try. And yes, we talked about the possible side-effects. But he gets regular check ups, including blood work, and there have been no signs of any problems. The doctor in charge of internal medicine at MSU said in his 30 years of work, he has never seen a case where a problem occurred because of Flagyl usage, although he did acknowledge the research which shows potential risks. But as someone said in an earlier post, even humans taking meds are at risk...but this has made his life, and ours, nearly normal for the last year. The risk is worth it to us. The MSU vet school doctors check in once in a while, and they said they've got an extensive file on Cooper now, and actually use his experience in some teaching they do. 

Also, a year ago we took some of your advice and got him invovled in the IBD study at Texas A & M. We did all of the tests through our vet and MSU, and they dealt directly with Texas A & M. All services were donated...didn't cost us a dime. We're hopeful that information will help in their on-going IBD research.

So I just thought I'd provide an update with our good news. Not sure if this helped you any covertje2. I would read back through the many posts in this thread. You may find some helpful advice. I know we did.


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## covertje2

Thank you all for your responses. It's comforting to know we're not alone Any thought on food? With our last dog, IAMS and science diet were "the best", now I'm hearing they're terrible and that we should only buy "holistic". We are feeding Sampson Fromm. It has great reviews, but reviewing the ingredients shows its all meat.Wondering if this is adding to or helping the bouts of diarrhea. Would love to just stick with a food, but its so overwhelming. We did feed him low residue while he had clostridium and then weaned him off.


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## Alaska7133

Just a word about Metronidazole. I've been on it for the last 16 years. I know that humans and dogs are different. I also do not use it for IBD or any other digestive use. I use it for rosacea in a lotion I put on my face. For some reason the magical stuff makes the blood vessels in my face reduce in visibility and the infections on my skin are gone. I take it on our camping trips since it has such great antibiotic properties. Never had a problem or a side effect in 16 years. Nothing.


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## just ducky

Alaska7133 said:


> Just a word about Metronidazole. I've been on it for the last 16 years. I know that humans and dogs are different. I also do not use it for IBD or any other digestive use. I use it for rosacea in a lotion I put on my face. For some reason the magical stuff makes the blood vessels in my face reduce in visibility and the infections on my skin are gone. I take it on our camping trips since it has such great antibiotic properties. Never had a problem or a side effect in 16 years. Nothing.


We've also got a tube of it around in our medicine cabinet that was prescribed for similar skin irritation issues. 

I won't call the stuff "magic", but it has controlled our dog's issues reasonably well over the past year.


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## guild.tom

I use Natural Balance Limited Ingredient Diet with both Willie and Mollie. I've used this food for over five years and am most satisfied with the results. Blood sample allergy testing revealed food allergies in both Willie and Mollie. Such tests may be questionable but my vet thinks they are very much worth considering in trying to determine food allergies.

Tom


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## just ducky

As far as food, we put Cooper on Royal Canin Hypoallergenic duck & potato back when he had the exploratory surgery at Michigan State vet school. It comes in dry and canned form. He's been on it ever since the surgery, and is doing fine.


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## SMBC

My dog was on metronidazole for about 2 1/2 years, but then had metronidazole toxicity. His liver was failing, and he wasn't able to metabolize the metronidazole as quickly, and then there was basically too much in his system. This was a shock to us, and to our vet, and was an indication of how poorly his liver was functioning, but I just wanted to warn you that this is possible, if given too much or your dog has another issue where he is not able to metabolize it properly, although it sounds like this is not an issue. The toxicity was very scary, and had very odd symptoms, and also had lasting, permanent effects on Monte. However, prior to this happening, Monte did very well on metronidazole for the 2 1/2 years, and had also taken it periodically throughout his life for gastrointestinal issues...so I think the chances of side effects or toxicity is low.


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## Dallas Gold

SMBC said:


> My dog was on metronidazole for about 2 1/2 years, but then had metronidazole toxicity. His liver was failing, and he wasn't able to metabolize the metronidazole as quickly, and then there was basically too much in his system. This was a shock to us, and to our vet, and was an indication of how poorly his liver was functioning, but I just wanted to warn you that this is possible, if given too much or your dog has another issue where he is not able to metabolize it properly, although it sounds like this is not an issue. The toxicity was very scary, and had very odd symptoms, and also had lasting, permanent effects on Monte. However, prior to this happening, Monte did very well on metronidazole for the 2 1/2 years, and had also taken it periodically throughout his life for gastrointestinal issues...so I think the chances of side effects or toxicity is low.


Thanks for sharing. BTW, for gastro issues, many vets are using tylan powder off label for dogs, and it's working for many of their IBD patients. We started it last month on Toby and it is helping firm him up and keep him healthier. 

As far as topical metronidazole- since it's not absorbed into the body you can use it much longer without causing internal side effects. I also use it for rosacea symptoms when needed.


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## ziggy3339

Don't know what I'd do without these forums. Really. There's just a wealth of info from all of us dog lovas! My dog was just prescribed Flagyl for 6 consecutive days of diaherra. I come here first (prior to giving it to her) just to make sure it's ok. This is my first golden, she's only 16 weeks now...and so the forum for me is a real life saver. To each and everyone of you I want to say thank you for your thoughts, opinions and generous sharing of your experiences. Head bow.


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## w00f

Metro can have a number of neuro side effects. It can make dogs walk wobbly, and has paralyzed dogs. Luckily, they mostly recover eventually when the meds are stopped. But low doses, liver support, and a watchful eye should always be used when flagyl is given. 

Tylan will "stay" more localized in the GI tract, but it might also not be quite as effective, depends on the dog.


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## ziggy3339

Thanks, W00f, for the insight. My dog's symptoms are gone, but the vet said to keep her on them until they're done. That will be tomorrow night. I hope one day to be as knowledgable & share like you just did, with me.


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## jabalong

Like others before me, I found this extremely informative thread by Googling long-term use of Metronidazole.

Since it has already been resurrected a couple of times over the years with good follow-on discussion, I hope no one minds if I take another stab at breathing life into it.

As we're talking about long-term symptoms and treatments, it would be great to hear again from past posters on how their dogs have fared over these years.

Here's our situation:

- Small dog (5.5kg, schnauzer-terrier mix possibly).
- Royal Canin Sensitivity dry food (with half can of rice/chicken).
- Averages 5 diarrhea outbreaks a year, over 5 years now.
- Treatment: Pro-Kolin (2x day, 3 days), Metronidazole (50mg 2x day, 8 days), Synbiotic pre/probiotics (sometimes).

Am not sure about the Pro-Kolin or Synbiotic, but Metronidazole seems to do the trick, settling down the dog within a day or two.

My concern is that in this year and last, sometimes outbreaks are happening in a row, so having to do two Metronidazole courses almost back to back.

The other issue is that is mostly reactive, so have to go through a day of vomiting and diarrhea, so would be nice to head this off.

I have a bunch of questions, some from reading this thread, others from other stuff. Would appreciate any thoughts.


1) So I wondered if we couldn't give Metronidazole proactively. I see that some people have had success giving 250mg 1x day, every 3-5 days.

For people doing this, is 250mg your dog's regular 1x or 2x/day dose? So I'm wondering if would be 50mg for us. (Will of course talk to vet.)


2) Am not really sold on Pro-Kolin or Synbiotic, as hard to gauge effectiveness. They both contain probiotics, but also prebiotics. 

I've heard that prebiotics maybe aren't desirable for treating active diarrhea. Do you use just probiotics or both? 

I see FortiFlora recommended here, which is just probiotics.


3) Does anyone use Metamucil? That's a fibre, which I understand is for large intestine issues. 

But am I right in thinking for colitis here, we are talking about small-intestine issues? So maybe Metamucil is of no benefit.


4) In terms of reacting to diarrhea, does anyone use any natural clay products?

We use Pro-Kolin, which is Kaolin. But I've read recently in the UK that a lot of people favour Montmorillonite over Kaolin.


5) For the food, I have seen a few references here to Royal Canin foods, with several names, none of which is ours ("Sensitivity").

Anyone very familiar with the different Royal Canins dry foods for these situations and can advise on Sensitivity vs Hypoallergenic or others mentioned here?

Is the rice/chicken wet food we also give a bad idea? I think we like the idea of not only giving dry food.

Again our dog fares okay generally, but for these five or some flare-ups a year.


I have taken note of the recommendations on here for Tylan Powder, but don't have any questions at this point. Have noted it to ask our vet.


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## GoldenMom999

My dog was on one 250 mg tab per day (she was 75 pounds) for three years for IBD. She did have a severe autoimmune case. She went to an internal medicine specialist with extensive IBD experience. She eventually died of heart disease at age 10 y 9m, unrelated to the Metro.


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## jabalong

GoldenMom999 said:


> My dog was on one 250 mg tab per day (she was 75 pounds) for three years for IBD. She did have a severe autoimmune case. She went to an internal medicine specialist with extensive IBD experience. She eventually died of heart disease at age 10 y 9m, unrelated to the Metro.


Thank you for your reply.

My dog is one fifth the size, so one fifth of the dose is 50mg, which is actually his current dose during flare-ups (2x day).

So if I followed this through, it sounds like we could test out on a preventive basis giving him that current dose, but only once every 1-3 days.

It's a basis for discussion with our vet at least.



.


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## Amyyleemakeup

guild.tom said:


> Mollie, my six year old golden, was diagnosed with inflammatory bowel disease before she was a year old. She also has a bunch of allergies and is on shots as well as being on a limited diet -- sweet potato and fish dry food. Mollie is a beautiful dog and appears and acts like she is quite healthy.
> 
> I have found it necessary to give her a minute (250 mg) dosage of metronidazole once every three days to insure "good poop". I have attempted to take her off the metronidazole and substitute plain low-fat yogurt or pro-biotics to maintain good intestinal health. They simply do not work.
> 
> The vets at the clinic I take Mollie to really do not understand why such a low dosage of results in the good intestinal health...but it does.
> 
> My questions: Have any of you experiences the same phenomena? I do know the side effects metronidazol. Mollie has none of the symptoms associated with them. Do you think that long term use of metronidazole is going to be harmful at the low dosage?
> 
> Tom


hi there. I know it has been a very long time but I was wondering if you could shed some insight on how Mollie did with long term metranidazole? My puppy is having the same issue as her right now at 6 months old and I just don’t know what to do.


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