# Indian Knoll Kennel in IL?



## Dslats (Mar 1, 2007)

Hi and welcome!! I've never heard of this breeder before. have you actually gone out there to see this kennel? I live in the chicago area and I work in Flossmoor, but never heard of them. maybe go and check them out. you say they moved to monee, maybe they needed more land. I'm sorry I don't know of any breeders around this area. good luck!

Debbie & mason


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

The original Indian Knoll was a very well-known kennel back in the 50's or so, but I have not really heard anything from them in at least 15-20 years. This could be a totally different kennel, or it could be relatives of the original Indian Knoll.

There are a number of good breeders in the Illinois area. You could try puppy referral from the GRCa:

ILLINOIS


Golden Retriever Club of Illinois 
Adrienne Milbradt
1-630-415-3612 
Updated 3/11/2008 

or

http://www.everythinggolden.com/everlore.htm

http://www.shorlinegoldens.com/

http://web.mac.com/jerrysteck/Site/Welcome.html

Usually if a good breeder does not have puppies available, they can refer you to other breeders who do.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

You should try for one of Tahnee's pups!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm not far from you, I've also heard of Indian Knoll many years ago but haven't heard anything since.
The only thing I would STRONGLY caution you about (and I have no idea if this applies to Indian Knoll or not) is that some breeders in this area breed very high energy field type goldens, while others breed some pretty boneheaded show prospects without a brain in their heads, and yet others breed some real nice pet puppies.
Be sure to find out what the breeder breeds for to be sure that the puppy you are getting is a good match to your lifestyle and your expectations.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

um, I just re-read my previous post and I did not mean to imply that all field goldens are hyper or that all show prospects don't have a brain in their heads, only that some of the breeders around here are noted for that....sorry if it came across otherwise.


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## tess (Mar 24, 2008)

Hi, I got my first golden Molly from Indian Knolls when they were in Flossmoor.
She was my heart dog, defininately a field golden descended for Topbrass
Cisco Kid. She demanded 4 walks a day plus several tennis ball retrieving sessions a day! She had lympho-plasmitic inflammatory bowel desease and her rectum kept prolapsing and I lost her shortly before her fifth birthday. She was my girl, everything a golden should be smart,loving, beautiful, I still miss her and as I write this, tears come into my eyes. I now have two goldens and considering a third. One place I like is Argo Goldens they are planning a late winter breeding, Mom looks nice and I am hoping dad will be 
their dog Harley. Good luck with your search.
Chris


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Ljilly - have you gotten a pup from Tahnee? I was just about to ask who she was when I noticed she posted right above you? 

Tess/Chris - I know exactly how you feel. Carmella was my best friend, and just the thought of her brings tears to my eyes - talking about her, writing about her, thinking about her... it's tough. 

I'm sorry you had to lose your girl so early. I count myself very lucky to have had the fortune of spending 14+ years with my golden. Sounds like our dogs were very similar, though. Up until about the last 2 weeks before she passed, Carmella still loved walking, running, playing with her toys, and just being her mischievous self. :

I have seen Argo mentioned before - I think I will check them out. It's good to hear you've gotten other goldens! I originally considered never getting another dog again after I lost Carmella, but enough people convinced me that the nicest thing to do in her memory would be to open my heart and home again to another dog.


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## Kirby'sMom (Feb 26, 2007)

Tahnee, did all the pups sell?


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

Tahnee GR said:


> The original Indian Knoll was a very well-known kennel back in the 50's or so, but I have not really heard anything from them in at least 15-20 years. This could be a totally different kennel, or it could be relatives of the original Indian Knoll.
> 
> There are a number of good breeders in the Illinois area. You could try puppy referral from the GRCa:
> 
> ...


Shor'line Goldens is where Diva's dad lives. Mariner is absolutely beautiful and Cynthia Binder is awesome.


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## tess (Mar 24, 2008)

kdmarsh-Thankyou for the kind words about Molly. I am sorry about Carmella ( love that name). It must be so hard to be without her after all these years. Good luck with your puppy search, I have learned alot from this forum and I think you will too. Who knows, maybe this spring we will both be getting an Argo puppy!
Chris


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Kirby'sMom said:


> Tahnee, did all the pups sell?


Oh goodness, I certainly can't take in a pup right now. I don't have anything ready for one and I really need to make sure that I'm 100% emotionally ready for one. My mother and I both really miss our girl and are pretty sure we want a pup within the next few months, but I want to be positive that I have everything set before I welcome another golden into my household. 

For now, I'm just... looking. Making inquiries, etc.



tess said:


> kdmarsh-Thankyou for the kind words about Molly. I am sorry about Carmella ( love that name). It must be so hard to be without her after all these years. Good luck with your puppy search, I have learned alot from this forum and I think you will too. Who knows, maybe this spring we will both be getting an Argo puppy!
> Chris


It has been really difficult getting used to not having her around. Her birthday was on the 24th of November, and my mother and I were both sort of sad that whole day. It would have been her 15th birthday. 

Best of luck to you with your puppy search!  I sure do hope that by this spring we'll both be welcoming a furry little ball of gold into our homes.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Kirby'sMom said:


> Tahnee, did all the pups sell?


Green Boy is still looking  And of course, either Pink or Yellow will be looking once I decide which one I am keeping, but that may not be until after the New Year.


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## gldnbozs2 (Dec 12, 2008)

*Indian Knoll Kennel in IL*

I have two Golden Retriever that were bred by Alice Landin of Indian Knoll's I would be more then happy to discuss this kennel with you.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

gldnbozs2 said:


> I have two Golden Retriever that were bred by Alice Landin of Indian Knoll's I would be more then happy to discuss this kennel with you.


I got my Carmella from them and I was just curious if they were still breeding. I'm thinking I may be getting a golden pup soon from another breeder, but I'm curious - when did you get your 2 dogs from Indian Knoll?

Thanks!


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## Mourner (Mar 25, 2009)

kdmarsh said:


> Hi, I just joined the forum because my family and I have recently started getting somewhat serious about getting a golden puppy. Our beloved golden girl Carmella died this summer from what the vet suspected was lymphoma (she was almost 15 though, so she had a good run), and we're just really missing having her around. The house seems so empty!
> 
> Anyways, I have all of her information we got from her breeder when she was a pup. Her breeder apparently was Indian Knoll Kennel, which used to be in Flossmoor, IL, but seems to now be located in Monee, IL.
> 
> ...


Oh gee, what a surprise that one of Indian Knolls' dogs died of cancer - (sarcasm intended)....I am so sorry for the loss of Carmella....

I hope you're ready to hear all about Indian Knolls and my opinion of them....it's not going to be a favorable review......

My parents have purchased three goldens from Alice Landin - my sister purchased a golden puppy from one of the same litters....here's the breakdown of these "great" dogs:

Duncan - first golden bought from Indian Knolls by my parents...he suffered from a chronic ear infection that NEVER cleared up, even with intensive antibiotic treatment...the ear canal was defective....he died at 11 years of age from a tumor on his spleen that ruptured. 

Oliver - second golden bought from Indian Knolls by my parents....he also suffers from a chronic ear infection that has never cleared up, even with intensive antibiotic treatment.

Rumsfeld - Oliver's sibling, bought from Indian Knolls by my sister. He suffered from a thyroid condition that required medication and died this past weekend from a tumor that ruptured (sound familiar?)....he was 7 years old.

Spencer - third golden bought from Indian Knolls by my parents....he suffers from seizures.

Okay, so that's 100% with serious medical issues....the purpose of a breeder registered with the AKC is to use superior breeding stock in an effort to eliminate these sorts of problems from the lines. Alice claims her dogs are of superior breeding quality and they are NOT. 4 out of 4 dogs with major issues, two of whom have died from cancer. Now, if 4 of her dogs have had these problems, I shudder to think of how many others have been sold with similiar problems? These are family members, not plate collections. I have been a breeder of bloodhounds and understand fully what the responsibility is for a breeder - I am disgusted that this woman touts Indian Knolls as a reputable breeding facility. I am so disgusted after the death of Rumsfeld this weekend, that I am filing a formal complaint against her and her kennel with the AKC and the American Golden Retriever Club, if she is a member. 

DO NOT buy any dog from this woman. Please, save yourself the heartbreak and ginormous expense of owning one of her dogs. I don't post negative comments about people as a general rule, but I am so outraged at the inferior stock she is selling as superior that I cannot sit quietly by and watch anyone else live through this experience. 

A local pet store would be just about as reliable as Indian Knolls if you're looking for a breeder. good luck to you in your quest.

Amy Weir - Chicago, IL


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## Bogey's Mom (Dec 23, 2008)

I was also going to say Shoreline. I think she has or will have pups soon. You might also contact Mary Lou from Goodheart (http://www.simplesite.com/goodheart). She is an amazing lady and her CJ sired a litter that should be here in a few weeks and will be ready for homes in June, I believe. Mary Lou is near Bloomington, IL, but the female is in Iowa, I think. Not too far. And she is PRETTY. Her name is Addee - and you can read about the litter at the link I posted in here. 

If I could get a puppy now, I'd be going with that litter.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Mourner, I am so sorry about the death of Rumsfeld this weekend(such a witty,cool name). 7 is way too young to say goodbye.


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## Mourner (Mar 25, 2009)

Ljilly28 said:


> Mourner, I am so sorry about the death of Rumsfeld this weekend(such a witty,cool name). 7 is way too young to say goodbye.


thank you so very much Ljilly...I feel rotten about being so negative, but these dogs, as sweet as they are, have major problems...all of them. I think this woman is totally irresponsible as a breeder and should cease using the AKC's name to garner credibility she certainly does not deserve. Perhaps in years past, she was a good breeder; but it's time for her to pack it in, imo.

Incidentally, Rumsfeld's name was taken from the US Secretary of Defense shortly after the attacks of 9/11.


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## Cratemail (Nov 6, 2008)

Mourner - so sorry about all of the medical conditions, know exactly how difficult that is and how watching them suffer (ear infections really hurt!) is just terrible. It sounds as if there is an allergy condition here that was never really identified - my 8 year old passed in November and had chronic ear infections and a thyroid condition. Having a thyroid condition may actually make the ear infections much worse, or more chronic because the immune system is affected. I know when our 8 year old was diagnosed with cancer, we researched everything, found this forum, learned even more and now know that interviewing and researching a breeder and their dogs is so important before ever making the purchase. I don't know anything about this kennel, but would tell anyone interested in purchasing a puppy to do research on the health and longevity of the kennel's dogs before making the decision to purchase. There are some great threads on this forum on what to ask a breeder, what to look for in a puppy, etc. I hope that you and your family will take advantage of all of the information available here.


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## starcrwn (Jan 23, 2008)

I'm sorry for Mourner's loss, however I think you are being a bit harsh. Carmella was 15(!!!!) when she died of lymphoma - a cancer that has been linked with environmental toxins, I believe. Chronic ear problems could have poor nutrition as a contributor. Over vaccinating may possibly trigger immune system problems (thyroid, allergies, cancer). I believe you had 2 dogs with splenic bleedouts which implies hemangiosarcoma. This form of cancer may have familial tendencies but can also strike out of the blue in lines that haven't seen it often. There may be a genetic component to it, but there may also be an environmental trigger (a virus, perhaps, which could make it look like its genetic as its passed through the generations).

It is tough to be a breeder - you get blamed for wildcard genetic issues that pop up and you get blamed for problems that develop do to environmental issues which you have no control over. Maybe modern Indian Knoll Goldens are crap, or maybe they are dealing with the same issues all responsible breeders are trying to deal with and sometimes things don't go the way we would prefer.

Karen
Star Crowned Goldens


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

I agree, that's a bit harsh. Sorry you've had bad luck with your dogs from there, but not every issue can be blamed on the breeder. Stud dog owners aren't always upfront on what issues their boys pass on, and sometimes they simply don't know till after the fact. Allergies and thyroid problems can happen. 

If the experience with that breeder was so horrible, why get a second and third dog from them? 

Lana


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Dexy, my heart dog, died of Hemangiosarcoma almost five years ago now, so I know the pain of this kind of loss personally. I think the poster who had three Indian Knoll dogs, is not aware of important facts about Goldens

The average life span of a golden is 10 1/2 years, so your first Golden outlived the average. Hemangiosarcoma is the biggest killer of Goldens taking about 25% of all of them. Lymphoma is the second biggest killer. Looking at the statistics, most Goldens over the age of say 7 will die of cancer. It is a terrible fact, but reality.

The genetic aspect of hemangiosarcoma is not known, but the Golden Retriever News had an article last year, I think, that discussed the possibility of breeding away from lines with hemangio, and their conclusion was that what ever the role genetics play in Hemangio, it is so wide spread within the Golden breed, that it is useless to try and breed away from it.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

Mourner,

I knew as soon as I read it that a few would find your post a bit harsh.

However, my hats off to you for two reasons:

1. You spoke your mind, and gave details on the situations. Many would just rant without any facts. We've all done that when angry 

2. You signed with your real name. That takes, um, gumption (this is a family forum so I'll use that word ) and a true belief in what you have said.

Finally, I'm truly sorry for your string of bad luck.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Wow, I didn't know this thread was still going!

Mourner, I am terribly sorry for your loss. If your dog was anything like Carmella, then I can understand how awful it is to lose such an amazing friend.

Carmella for the most part was very healthy. I admit, she did have her fair share of ear infections and she required two different surgeries (one on her vulva, which I cannot remember, and an immensely expensive surgery to remove a thymoma from her heart when she was 13), and she *did* have a melanoma at the age of 3 which I caught and it was promptly treated, but aside from that she had no problems. Her arthritis was pretty minimal until the day she died, and she had the energy of a young dog even when she was 14! Her thymoma surgery required her entire sternum be cracked open, and even at the ripe age of 13 Carmella was up on her feet the morning after the surgery. Her recovery was nothing short of a miracle.

I have a puppy now from a new breeder, and I wouldn't trade her for anything in the world. But gosh, if I were offered the chance to get another dog from Indian Knoll, I would probably take it. Carmella was my dearest friend, and I'll always cherish her.

*edit* I don't know if I have this in my first post, but her cause of death was a guess. We didn't have an autopsy, and there was no clear evidence of cancer aside from an x-ray that showed something pushing against her lower intestines. Our vet only assumed it was lymphoma because of the symptoms, but it could have been something completely different.


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

Mourner said:


> Oh gee, what a surprise that one of Indian Knolls' dogs died of cancer - (sarcasm intended)....I am so sorry for the loss of Carmella....
> 
> I hope you're ready to hear all about Indian Knolls and my opinion of them....it's not going to be a favorable review......
> 
> ...


Amy,

I'm so sorry to hear about the poor health issues your family have experienced with their goldens.

Just a question though - why would you return to the same kennel time & time again when you had serious health issues? (Sorry, I didn't read through the whole thread before commenting - Bender had already posted this exact thought.)

I do wish you luck with any future goldens!


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## Mourner (Mar 25, 2009)

_I'm so sorry to hear about the poor health issues your family have experienced with their goldens._

_Just a question though - why would you return to the same kennel time & time again when you had serious health issues? (Sorry, I didn't read through the whole thread before commenting - Bender had already posted this exact thought.)_

Firstly, I have not bought any dog from Alice Landin. My parents and my sister did. Secondly....Duncan was the first golden. Oliver and Rumsfeld were both bought at the same time (siblings from the same litter) while Duncan was alive and before he developed cancer. Spencer was bought before Rumsfeld was dx'd with thyroid issues, cancer and shortly after Duncan died, but before Oliver was dx'd with chronic ear infections. "Chronic" means ongoing, btw. I can assure you, nobody in my family will ever do business with or recommend her kennel ever again. It's not as if each dog developed problems and my parents kept returning to her...some of these issues were concurrent. 

Thirdly, to anyone here who thinks I'm being too hard on the breeder - I will repeat this...I myself was a breeder and I know, as a breeder, what is expected of me and I certainly wouldn't be advertising my dogs as superior when they clearly are not. The role of a breeder, among many, is to work toward breeding these sorts of medical problems out of the line. Again, I bred bloodhounds and that breed is fraught with medical problems, not the least of which is gastric torsion, dysplasia, entropion, et al. I researched the line I was breeding and made double sure none of these issues existed before breeding. Just because a golden comes from Sweden doesn't make it a superior dog. And this was Alice's claim. When you have 4 dogs from the same breeder and all 4 dogs have major medical issues, yes - it's time to take action as a consumer who has been lied to repeatedly. I certainly don't expect perfect dogs, but by the same token, I don't expect every single dog to be riddled with medical problems that cut their life expectancy in half, either. 

If using a breeder does not come with some guarantees that you are getting a superior animal, then there is no need to be charging the exoribitant prices most breeders do, if what they're turning out is nothing better than you can get from a puppy mill. 

Amy Weir - Chicago


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## Mourner (Mar 25, 2009)

*Oh WAIT! Another IK Golden dying from cancer? Say it ain't so! PFFFFT*



Mourner said:


> Oh gee, what a surprise that one of Indian Knolls' dogs died of cancer - (sarcasm intended)....I am so sorry for the loss of Carmella....
> 
> I hope you're ready to hear all about Indian Knolls and my opinion of them....it's not going to be a favorable review......
> 
> ...


Remember this post? And how I was jumped all over by those of you who claim this kind of b.s. is "typical" for goldens? Well GUESS WHAT? 

Guess who died this morning at an emergency animal hospital from a BRAIN TUMOR at 8 years of age? Oliver did...Rumsfeld's litter mate.

Now if any of you think that 75% of the dogs this woman sold to my family dying of cancer and 2/3 of those being at a young age is NORMAL...then please kindly explain what abnormal is. 

I've advised my father to adopt from an animal shelter since 90% of the breeders out there are borderline criminal on their best day and just because you shell out a ton of money, doesn't mean you're getting the great dog they advertise. 

kthanksbye now.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

I'm sorry that you lost Oliver today. My sympathies to you and your family.


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## Pete G (Nov 23, 2009)

I'm so sorry for your loss. Any time we lose them, it's crushing, but especially when they're that young.

I'm new to the forum, but I've read your posts on Indian Knoll. I had a dog from Alice Landin that, with the exception of the occasional ear infection and a couple lipomas, was healthy as a horse up to the last two weeks of his 16-year life. I couldn't imagine the devastation of losing him so early.

If I could get another dog from the same line, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Alas, the Landins have been impossible to get in touch with, so I guess it's not meant to be.

As to why your family has had such bad luck with Indian Knoll, I have no clue, but I am sad for you. I do hope you informed them of all the health problems your family's dogs have had. It may influence them to discontinue the line.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Mourner said:


> Remember this post? And how I was jumped all over by those of you who claim this kind of b.s. is "typical" for goldens? Well GUESS WHAT?
> 
> Guess who died this morning at an emergency animal hospital from a BRAIN TUMOR at 8 years of age? Oliver did...Rumsfeld's litter mate.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear this.  

It is hard to deny something like this when you have 3 dogs dying of cancer at a young age, but it could be possible that it was just a rotten litter. I got my new puppy Flora from a completely different breeder that people raved about. She's a year and a half and I've spent over $2000 on surgery/medical bills for her already. It would be easy for me to say, "Oh, this breeder is the worst breeder ever!" because of Flora's issues, but pretty much everyone else who has a dog from this breeder has had absolutely no problems. I know my situation is a little different from yours because you have more than 1 dog passing from a similar disease, but you also have several people (myself included) saying their dogs from the same breeder lived to a ripe age.

It could just be bad luck. :/ Or... it could be bad breeding.


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## Pete G (Nov 23, 2009)

A search on k9data.com shows only three dogs born in the past 10 years with the Indian Knoll name, and none at all after 2004. 

It could be just that none of their more recent dogs have made it into the k9data system, but if I had to guess, I'd say the Landins are probably out of the breeding biz. Alice must be at least 70 by now, and from the few conversations I had with her son, Steve, I got the impression that he wasn't particularly interested in breeding. 

Still, it'd be good for them to know if there is a problem in one of their lines. Just because they may not be breeding anymore, doesn't mean that there aren't other dogs still being bred from that line.

Amy, I know you're very upset at Alice, and perhaps rightfully so, but you could do a lot of good by letting them know about all the health problems your family's dogs had.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Pete G said:


> A search on k9data.com shows only three dogs born in the past 10 years with the Indian Knoll name, and none at all after 2004.
> 
> It could be just that none of their more recent dogs have made it into the k9data system, but if I had to guess, I'd say the Landins are probably out of the breeding biz. Alice must be at least 70 by now, and from the few conversations I had with her son, Steve, I got the impression that he wasn't particularly interested in breeding.
> 
> ...


I definitely agree with this, although I completely understand that it might be difficult for you to do that. I think if I had the same experiences as Amy, I might not really want to talk to Alice. :/


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## Pete G (Nov 23, 2009)

kdmarsh, your Carmella looked remarkably like my Riley. They were a couple years apart [Riley was born 6/25/91], but they definitely look like they're from the same line. Riley was out of Splash and Gus –– a 'Dasty' line breeding. Could our dogs have been sibs?


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Mourner said:


> Remember this post? And how I was jumped all over by those of you who claim this kind of b.s. is "typical" for goldens? Well GUESS WHAT?
> 
> Guess who died this morning at an emergency animal hospital from a BRAIN TUMOR at 8 years of age? Oliver did...Rumsfeld's litter mate.
> 
> ...


Your experience is an important one for the breeder to know about, but a handful of dogs do not provide a statistical sampling that says that this breeder's lines are actually more prone to cancer than any others. If I had four Goldens that died of hemangiosarcoma, I would simply assume I was getting the short end of the statistical stick.

I've had a Golden die at 7 of cancer (probably hemangiosarcoma, but progressed too quickly for a solid Dx) and one of a rare lymphoma at 6. I too got the statistical short stick, but since the dogs came from different places, I have nobody to blame but the breed.

By all means, post your experiences, and make sure the breeder knows all the details so she can make great choices. But people who read this thread need to understand that the common Golden cancers are not inherited in a simple way, and that since more than half of Goldens will develop lymphoma, hemangiosarcoma, or osteosarcoma at some point, it's possible to have it happen to you repeatedly _through no fault of your own or the breeder's_.


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## gldnbozs2 (Dec 12, 2008)

*Indian Knoll Kennel*



kdmarsh said:


> I got my Carmella from them and I was just curious if they were still breeding. I'm thinking I may be getting a golden pup soon from another breeder, but I'm curious - when did you get your 2 dogs from Indian Knoll?
> 
> Thanks!


I got Barney from Alice 02/15/98 he is now 12.5 years old and in perfect health I got his full brother Rusty 10/30/01 he will be 10 yrs old in Aug 2010 and also in perfect health.

I have kept in contact with Alice Landin over the last 12+ years to let her know how my boys are doing and Titles that they have received. They have produced puppies with Int.Nat and UKC Conformation Titles, AKC Tracking & Obedience and one is a Therapy dog.

My vet said that there pedigree is one you want to keep going since they have been so healthy. 

Patti


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## gldnbozs2 (Dec 12, 2008)

*Indian Knoll Kennel*



Mourner said:


> Oh gee, what a surprise that one of Indian Knolls' dogs died of cancer - (sarcasm intended)....I am so sorry for the loss of Carmella....
> 
> I hope you're ready to hear all about Indian Knolls and my opinion of them....it's not going to be a favorable review......
> 
> ...


Who were the parents of this dogs? I have never had a medical issues with either one of my Golden's that I got from Alice Landin my Barney is 12.5 and his full brother is Rusty who will be 10 yrs old 08/20/10.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Pete G said:


> kdmarsh, your Carmella looked remarkably like my Riley. They were a couple years apart [Riley was born 6/25/91], but they definitely look like they're from the same line. Riley was out of Splash and Gus –– a 'Dasty' line breeding. Could our dogs have been sibs?


I can't remember Carmella's complete lineage, but I do remember that Gus (Gustav, right?) was somewhere in there... either her father or her grandfather. They must've been related somehow!


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## Lryansgoldens (May 2, 2011)

I have known Alice for years, I breed my goldens with her bloodline & I have done DNA test & OFA on my pups. NONE have ever tested positive for any cancers or bad hips. 
My sister bought a golden from her 15 years ago and he just passed last December, No cancer. I am sorry to hear about your golden baby, We love our pets like they are our childen and when they leave us the pain is great! As far as Indian Knolls goes, I have Never had a bad experiance, Alice is a very caring breeder that breeds well and quality. I wish you the best of Luck with your next golden baby, and again I.m sorry,
Lindsey Ryan


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Lryansgoldens,
Wow that is a naive comment. There is no test for cancer. If you do not test EVERY pup in the litter and very few people do, you will not know about "bad hips". As I said in another post on another thread, NEVER trust a breeder who says NEVER about clearances... it is just not true.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Lryansgoldens said:


> I have known Alice for years, I breed my goldens with her bloodline & I have done DNA test & OFA on my pups. NONE have ever tested positive for any cancers or bad hips.


How many dogs have you bred? Typically, cancer shows up in at least some geriatric dogs, no matter what the breeder does or which lines are used. Also, what DNA test are you referring to? There are none for canine cancer.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

I will say that Carmella very likely died of cancer... lymphoma, most likely. But she was 14.5 years old when she passed. I wish I had known that Alice was still breeding, because I would have loved another dog from her. Carmella was truly one of a kind.


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## Lryansgoldens (May 2, 2011)

Alice Just had pups But they all are sold, I have 2 males left that are from Alices Blood Line.


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## Lryansgoldens (May 2, 2011)

I’m Sorry to disappoint you, But that’s inaccurate to say #1 I am naive and #2 that there is no cancer screen for Canines. The test does not pin point everything, But the test would *** any genetic anomalies. For example if my Golden Princess carried the gene for Cancer the test would flag that she carried a gene. The only thing is that it would not be specific and say which type. The type would have to be a guess by looking back into the bloodlines. And in Princesses bloodline there has never been any dog that had cancer and the genetic test that was ran tested Negative for any genetic anomalies. 
Now I am not saying Princess could never develop any cancers and that her pups are free from developing cancers. If she or they ever did it would be more than likely an environmental culprit rather than a genetic culprit. 
Alice’s has bred for decades and with that number of puppies she’s produced via bitch or stub OF COURSE not EVERY dog that has been produced would be 100% health problem free. It’s truly the luck of the draw, and that is so in our own lives.
The Bad hip issue, OFA looks at the x-rays, grades the hips from there, they certify the quality of the hips. Again we can’t say Your pup can NEVER develop that.. We are simply saying to our knowledge and that we as breeders do everything we can to produce quality pups.
Me personally, when I was younger my father bought me a golden (male) I named him Calogero. From the moment I laid eyes on him I was in love, we spent every second together. He was my best friend through everything. I carried him in my arms until he grew to darn big, We swam almost every day (weather Permitting) I walked him daily. He was my boy.. Until one day, I was playing catch with him and I notice the bunny hop on his rear legs, I took him in the next day for a hip check. He had grade 4 of 4 dysphasia in his hind and shoulders.... He was a walking time bomb for real injury and death. 
He went under laser treatments, meds and so on. I kept Calog with me for 2 years post diagnosing, I woke up one morning He couldn’t not get up from his bed... I knew it was time. It was September 5,2005 Sunny, warm ... I carried him to my car and drove him in to the vet to be put down. 
It was the HARDEST choice I had to make thus far, And the pain was great in my heart.. I was in a fog and lost for months! and to this day I still look and pictures and I miss my friend dearly. 
That is why I am very particular as to what type of dogs I breed, I am not breeding cattle I am breeding pets. I am giving families their Calogero.
Lindsey Ryan


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Lryansgoldens said:


> I’m Sorry to disappoint you, But that’s inaccurate to say #1 I am naive and #2 that there is no cancer screen for Canines. The test does not pin point everything, But the test would *** any genetic anomalies. For example if my Golden Princess carried the gene for Cancer the test would flag that she carried a gene. The only thing is that it would not be specific and say which type. The type would have to be a guess by looking back into the bloodlines.


Can you please let us know what this test is? There's no such thing as a general cancer gene that's ever been identified in any medical literature on dogs or people, so it's hard to imagine how it would work. Please name the test you're talking about. Are you referring to blood tests that identify a dog who HAS cancer? They do have those, though they're not DNA tests.

BTW, to say that a test would "flag any genetic anomalies" makes no sense whatsoever.



Lryansgoldens said:


> And in Princesses bloodline there has never been any dog that had cancer and the genetic test that was ran tested Negative for any genetic anomalies.


Again, what test is this and what bloodlines are you talking about? If it's a Golden Retriever, there was cancer (perhaps not pre-geriatric cancer, but definitely cancer) somewhere in the bloodlines. Anybody who says otherwise is lying. No offense intended, but somebody is deceiving you here.

Can you give us some registered names? Perhaps we can help look up some stuff for you.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

PS - I would not be disappointed to find out that dogs could be screened for cancer genes. I would be ecstatic.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

If there is a test for cancer in dogs, it is news to me as a veterinarian. I keep sending blood samples of my dogs to researchers to find those cancer genes. My dad, still not retired at 86 years, has been working on the study of cancer for over 60 years. He is one of the doctors that linked the cell cycle and cancer. I'm guessing I would've heard about these famous coancer genes froma reliable source. And as far as orthopedic health goes, we still can only test phenotype, not genotype. And there is no thing orthopedic called shoulder dysplasia... it is either shoulder OCD or elbow dysplasia. And I can tell anyone that as a veterinarian, it is obvious to me that all lines can get cancer and all lines can get orthopedic issues. There are plenty of dogs running around with mild elbow dysplasia and mild hip dysplasia who go undiagnosed because most pet owners don't do rads unless there is an issue.


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