# Petco training -- dog dies during training



## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

English bulldog dies during training class at Petco - Lansing Pets | Examiner.com

Just a head's up about who you trust with correcting your dog. I'm kind of shocked that the owners let him reprimand his dog that way.


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## drofen (Feb 2, 2013)

Gwen_Dandridge said:


> English bulldog dies during training class at Petco - Lansing Pets | Examiner.com
> 
> Just a head's up about who you trust with correcting your dog. I'm kind of shocked that the owners let him reprimand his dog that way.


Wow. Looks like flash pulmonary edema. Sad.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Wow.. unbelievable. But how could anyone let someone else handle their dog like that?


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

I've never heard of that method for controlling barking. Our facility suggests a squirt of lemon juice or breath spray in the mouth. Much less harsh, and very effective. 


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Very tragic, I would be furious if anyone handled either of my dogs like this. 

Not to mention an outcome like this incident.

I find it very hard to believe any training facility would allow this or stand by a trainer that did this, especially after a dog died.


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## madametrogdor (Mar 27, 2013)

My word. How awful. I train my dog at Petco and I could NEVER imagine my trainer recommending anything even CLOSE to this. In fact, he preaches positive dog training only.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Doesn't Petco require use of the Gentle Leader in class?


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I was talking about corrections with some people at class last week.... we were doing out of sight stays and my instructor had my full permission to go in and correct Jacks if he broke position. The other ladies commented that's what they really liked about this particular instructor, because she doesn't mind staying in the ring and correcting other people's dogs. My comment was that even if other instructors were OK about going in and putting a dog who broke his stay back into position.... I would not be OK with them doing so. 

There are very few people who I let correct my Jacks. And that is even appropriate corrections.

Stringing a dog up - definitely is not an appropriate correction by anyone, least of all a stranger the dog might be afraid of. How horrible.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Nairb said:


> Doesn't Petco require use of the Gentle Leader in class?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Our Petco requires a Gentle Leader, and specifically forbids choke collars. Max and I took one class at Petco and I was generally pleased with the trainer.

On the other hand, I went recently to a different Petco a little further away because they offered CGC. The trainer was doing an individual lesson with a small dog, and had it in an "alpha roll" to teach it "leave-it." It seemed inappropriate to me and overkill.

Problem with the the CGC was that they would only give the test if you took their CGC class for $140. Plus I would not let the trainer near Max, so I declined.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

In 10 consecutive months of taking classes, I've yet to witness a trainer correcting someone else's dog. 


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

I was shopping at Petco when a class was going on and the trainer was working on a puppy who wouldn't "down". I watched as she forced him down, got on the floor, and laid on top of him to keep him in position.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Max's Dad said:


> Our Petco requires a Gentle Leader, and specifically forbids choke collars. Max and I took one class at Petco and I was generally pleased with the trainer.
> 
> On the other hand, I went recently to a different Petco a little further away because they offered CGC. The trainer was doing an individual lesson with a small dog, and had it in an "alpha roll" to teach it "leave-it." It seemed inappropriate to me and overkill.
> 
> Problem with the the CGC was that they would only give the test if you took their CGC class for $140. Plus I would not let the trainer near Max, so I declined.


I agree that's an odd way to teach leave it. We set a treat on the floor and rewarded the dog with the one in our hand when they successfully left it. It's not that hard. 


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

Vhuynh2 said:


> I was shopping at Petco when a class was going on and the trainer was working on a puppy who wouldn't "down". I watched as she forced him down, got on the floor, and laid on top of him to keep him in position.


Holy Sh***!


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Vhuynh2 said:


> I was shopping at Petco when a class was going on and the trainer was working on a puppy who wouldn't "down". I watched as she forced him down, got on the floor, and laid on top of him to keep him in position.


That is SO VERY WRONG and TOTALLY unnecessary..........


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## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

I tried to post just one of the comments but can't make it work from my tablet. Check out the first comment at the end of this article. It points out some descrepancies in the story on the part of the owners.

http://www.dogster.com/lifestyle/petco-dog-training


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

I just looked up the job requirements for Dog Trainer for Petco:

*Minimum Requirements:
While a high school diploma or G.E.D. is preferred, you must be able to demonstrate basic math proficiency and strong communication skills. You must be customer service focused and able to interact professionally and effectively through both verbal and written communication with everyone with whom you come into contact. *

This is not super impressive to me. While I can see that a college degree (or even a HS diploma) might not get make better dog trainer, this is really, really a low level of expectation. It says absolutely nothing about dog experience or exposure. Nothing about training. The guy at Petco here is very nice but I wouldn't trust his expertise with my puppy. He doesn't have it.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Gwen_Dandridge said:


> I just looked up the job requirements for Dog Trainer for Petco:
> 
> *Minimum Requirements:
> While a high school diploma or G.E.D. is preferred, you must be able to demonstrate basic math proficiency and strong communication skills. You must be customer service focused and able to interact professionally and effectively through both verbal and written communication with everyone with whom you come into contact. *
> ...


I guess I'm qualified!


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

Nairb said:


> I guess I'm qualified!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Me too!  

Though I note that they don't require basic common sense.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> n Douglas • 4 days ago −
> First let me state that the loss of an animal is always a sad thing. Second let me state that I grew up in the Levittown area where this incident took place. I have zero professional or personal affiliation with Petco however as this has taken place in my local community and as someone who is heavily involved in community outreach as well as having personally organized 4 fundraisers in the past 12 months for animal shelters in the area I have been able to speak with people who have first hand knowledge of this story and want to present another perspective of this story.
> 
> I realize there are many animal lovers here, self included and it's easy to be outraged by any stories involving the cruelty or death of an animal and respond quickly with emotionally charged responses and I believe that is exactly what the owners of Sophia Belle were counting on. Their memorial page only began to take traction 3 months after the death and they hadnt even told people about the death until 2 months after. This is not some emotionally distraught couple who just lost their dog and want to warn the public about Petco's negligence immediately. This is an owner who is an attorney and has affiliations with many political parties here on Long Island and this entire situation had played out like a text book case of someone setting up for a lawsuit and hoping to garner some social media support by embellishing a story to outrage the internet.
> ...


Holy cow.... that does seem to make more sense than just one hanging up causing this dog's collapse.... 

Again. How horrible....


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

Megora said:


> Holy cow.... that does seem to make more sense than just one hanging up causing this dog's collapse....
> 
> Again. How horrible....


Interesting! Lots of blame to go around. And false accusations. I'm sorry to be party to this if that is the case.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

That commenter could be a Petco employee or attorney posing as a "concerned citizen." Who knows. It's hard for me to imagine a dog being killed in the manner he described. Either way, someone isn't telling the truth.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

For sure.... I think that any doubts or questions will be aired and asked if this lawsuit goes through. The rest is just gossip.

One thing I was thinking when I copied over the comment that Ragtym indicated in her post is that a possible reason why it took 3 months before the owners started asking questions and putting together a case... well I think grief has its processes and people can be in denial or just numb for a long time. 

We get frustrated on here and elsewhere when people start asking questions about why their dogs died - after the dogs were buried. And never thought to have a necropsy done or anything further right away when it was still possible. 

But I do think it often happens that people just aren't thinking when they are in a state of shock and grief. Especially if the necropsy report came back with no specifics. It's usually not until they start talking with other people that it starts coming out. 

Another thing I was thinking too - I have a friend who purchased an english bulldog from the other side of the country. She jumped through hoops and really did what she could to get a puppy from a good breeder because the breed is so unhealthy and prone to weak hearts among other things. Like even now I'm reading about the issues about letting them be out in the heat! 

That doesn't excuse anything that may have happened at that store, but I'm gathering it may indicate this dog was a ticking time bomb. I think other people besides the owner would have remembered if the trainer was hanging the dog. For it to have strangled the dog, I'm sure it would have been fairly violent to watch. 

I dunno.

The biggest thing for me is = screen who you train with and watch before you take your dogs there.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

I have never felt the media or Social Media was the appropriate place to discuss situations such as this. There is often more to a story than what is in print or posted online.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Manhandling or having heavy hands on a puppy for common issues like barking in class shows a lack of skill and expertise imo.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I took a class at my local Petco. Although the class was not the best, it was the best that I had around me at the time.

My instructor was all positive reinforcement. She did have years of experience, and used her own very well trained dogs for her examples. She did tell us of her frustrations in teaching certain things because Petco had a very strict policy in how and what to teach the dogs. 

I also wonder if whatever that happened, if the type the breed of this puppy did have the numbers stacked against him.


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

That store is twenty minutes from me,,,,I'm horrified. I'm so sorry for the puppy and the owners.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Nairb said:


> Doesn't Petco require use of the Gentle Leader in class?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Gentle Leaders generally don't fit on bulldogs, their snout is too flat, so even if they did require them that particular dog couldn't use one.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

One takeaway here is a sad reminder of why many vets and training professionals recommend harnesses for brachycephalic (short-muzzled) dogs. It's also a reminder that any tool that pulls hard against the trachea, including a flat buckle collar, carries inherent risks. They can be put on too tight or can push too hard on the trachea if the dog is pulling suddenly or steadily.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Nairb said:


> Doesn't Petco require use of the Gentle Leader in class?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


The one near me you use just a regular buckle collar.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

tippykayak said:


> One takeaway here is a sad reminder of why many vets and training professionals recommend harnesses for brachycephalic (short-muzzled) dogs. It's also a reminder that any tool that pulls hard against the trachea, including a flat buckle collar, carries inherent risks. They can be put on too tight or can push too hard on the trachea if the dog is pulling suddenly or steadily.


At least for pet people.... or for recreational/pet type walking around. 

For competition training they do use training collars on pugs, and even English bulldogs (even though to this day I've only seen one English bulldog in obedience). 

You can't put a halter on your dog in the ring.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Uggh! That's terrible!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Megora said:


> At least for pet people.... or for recreational/pet type walking around.
> 
> For competition training they do use training collars on pugs, and even English bulldogs (even though to this day I've only seen one English bulldog in obedience).
> 
> You can't put a halter on your dog in the ring.


By "training collar" do you mean a slip or choke collar? All other training collar types (prong, electronic, etc.) aren't kosher. I'm sure you know that, but I'm writing it for clarity's sake.

The regulation on AKC obedience says "Dogs in the obedience ring must wear a properly fitted collar approved by the judge. No special training collars, such as electronic collars or prong collars, will be permitted. Nothing may be hanging from the collars."

Personally, if I had a brachycephalic dog, I would harness him. In formal obedience, that might mean putting a loose-ish collar on him and also harnessing him right up until the last second and then removing the harness. That way, you're never really controlling him with the collar.

I certainly would never put a slip/choke on such a dog and then correct him with a pop. However, in the interest of full disclosure, I should say that I wouldn't do that to _any_ dog, regardless of the length of his muzzle.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> By "training collar" do you mean a slip or choke collar? All other training collar types (prong, electronic, etc.) aren't kosher. I'm sure you know that, but I'm writing it for clarity's sake.
> 
> The regulation on AKC obedience says "Dogs in the obedience ring must wear a properly fitted collar approved by the judge. No special training collars, such as electronic collars or prong collars, will be permitted. Nothing may be hanging from the collars."


Yes. 

I was simply commenting that collars can certainly be used with these dogs, as can choke collars, slip collars, and prongs.

Little appropriate corrections shouldn't give any dog a heart attack.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Megora said:


> Yes.
> 
> I was simply commenting that collars can certainly be used with these dogs, as can choke collars, slip collars, and prongs.


They can be, but I've heard or read many vets and trainers recommend against using any kind of collar that can put pressure on the trachea when it comes to brachycephalic dogs, and I've never heard or read, "unless you're an obedience trainer who wants to use a slip for corrections."


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

tippykayak said:


> They can be, but I've heard or read many vets and trainers recommend against using any kind of collar that can put pressure on the trachea when it comes to brachycephalic dogs, and I've never heard or read, "unless you're an obedience trainer who wants to use a slip for corrections."


Well... until this story had me googling illnesses and health concerns for the breed, I can't say I ever heard or read about it not being recommended using any collar with a pug or similar breeds. I have seen a lot of pugs, boston terriers, and boxers in obedience - wearing choke chains, prongs, etc.

The breed here is English bulldog - and with them, I think they are so stubborn and slow that not too many people opt to do obedience with them. My friend does with her girl, and it's like pulling teeth compared to her goldens.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

There are two Boston Terriers in my novice class who are currently competing in obedience. Neither wears a harness. I'll look tonight and see what kind of collar they wear if they're present. It seems like it would be difficult to switch from a harness to a collar right before entering the ring and expect decent results. 


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Nairb said:


> There are two Boston Terriers in my novice class who are currently competing in obedience. Neither wears a harness. I'll look tonight and see what kind of collar they wear if they're present. It seems like it would be difficult to switch from a harness to a collar right before entering the ring and expect decent results.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


One of the two Boston Terriers was at class tonight. He was wearing a tiny little prong collar. 


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

Give my endearing pigheaded nature, I won't use anything but a flat collar for my dog. If I can't get her attention without resorting to something more forceful, it isn't for me.

I once watched a video of a trainer walking a dog through an area filled with loose and playing dogs. He was trying to show how good a trainer he was. I noticed the ecollar on the dog. I wasn't impressed then. Take the collar off and let's see how well you've truly trained that dog. Then I will be impressed.


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