# Looking for a puppy near Bay Area



## Sandy22 (Mar 12, 2016)

Here is a link to a thread I started last year when we were looking for our pup (and considering Autumnwoods). There are many experienced members willing to share their knowledge on this forum, and I'm so glad that I took their advice and redirected our puppy search.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...uppy/404714-northern-california-breeders.html

Good luck!


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Autumnwood is advertising a litter for Autumnwood's Lady Cordelia. "Cordee" does not have up to date eye exams (they should be done every year.) Her heart was not cleared by a cardiologist. Her mother is lacking hip and elbow clearances. Her father has no elbow clearance and 2 of the grandparents are lacking elbows and one is also lacking hips. The sire of her puppies is still not 2 years old. His sire had no clearances and none of his grandparents did either. The dam of the litter is missing heart and eye clearances. If this is typical of Autumnwood, then I can't say that this is a good idea. 

Creme Brulee's listed dog "Ruby of Oz" does not have elbows or eyes done and her heart is not by a cardiologist. Her parents and grandparents do not have clearances. She was bred underage to Autumnwood's Black Hills Gold who doesn't have an elbow clearance and didn't have an eye clearance updated at the time. Again, this is not where I would be getting a dog.

Jayne's Acre seems to be in on this too, she owns a dog sired by the Autumnwood's dog. I really wouldn't get a puppy from people cutting corners from clearances and if you are searching for dogs using the "English Cream" term, you're going to find a LOT of breeders doing things this way. If you read the information available here and on the GRCA.org website regarding this as well as health clearances, it will help you understand why these clearances are important. The more informed you are, the less likely you will be taken advantage of by someone breeding white dogs for money. Hobby breeders show their dogs in some way, they are busy training and showing and don't have time to pump out litter after litter of puppies. The last thing you want to do is support someone who is raising puppies like livestock and not even bothering with proper health clearances.


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## DKap (Nov 7, 2017)

@ sandy22-thanks for the information- I will call/email these breeders . @nolefan- thanks for the research- I didn't know looking for a GR puppy would be so difficult.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

It's appalling how many breeders know what they should be doing yet are cutting corners. If you spend time reading up on this site and also the club site www.grca.org you can learn a lot about what to look for. This puppy search is worth taking your time with. It's definitely one of those things that you will get out of what you put into it. Learn and read as much as you can.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

If you need a little more visual help here is an infographic and annotated screenshots that might help.


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## DKap (Nov 7, 2017)

*need information on Dame and Sire*

Hello,
i have been frantically emailing and calling every NCAL/ SCAL breeders and getting information from them w..t the dame and sire.I think i might have finally found a suitable match.Would someone please take a look at this breeding and let me know if this would be a good one to consider? Since we are new to this; doing research the information I get from this forum is greatly appreciated 


The sire is : Star Crowned Darwin O'Emerald (AKC SR67590603)
The dam is: Emerald's Xmas Good N' Plenty (AKC SR64685608)

i see their information on K9data but if I put the AKC # in OFA I don't get ant information.

the breeder is: Emerald Acres Golden Retrievers


Any information, feedback , guidance is highly recommended


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Here is the dam https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1513669

And the sire: https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1513667


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

It looks like the dam has produced 1 offspring with hip dysplasia and one with elbow dysplasia. Those are her only 2 listed on OFA. The pup with hip dysplasia is a full sibling to this new litter. I would talk to the breeder about it and why they chose to repeat this breeding, why pair this stud with that particular girl. Both sire and dam appear to have had full certifications at the time of the breeding.


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

DKap said:


> Hello,
> i have been frantically emailing and calling every NCAL/ SCAL breeders and getting information from them w..t the dame and sire.I think i might have finally found a suitable match.Would someone please take a look at this breeding and let me know if this would be a good one to consider? Since we are new to this; doing research the information I get from this forum is greatly appreciated
> 
> 
> ...



I have a Golden from Emerald Acres and her sire was Darwin. 

By the way, in your post, you stated the dam was Good N Plenty, but on the breeder's website it says the dam is Tootsie. So, I'm a little confused. 

I can't say enough wonderful things about the Golden I have from Emerald Acres.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

GoldenDude said:


> I have a Golden from Emerald Acres and her sire was Darwin.
> 
> By the way, in your post, you stated the dam was Good N Plenty, but on the breeder's website it says the dam is Tootsie. So, I'm a little confused.
> 
> I can't say enough wonderful things about the Golden I have from Emerald Acres.


They bred Darwin to 3 different bitches, all within the same month. So they have 3 litters listed. The one the OP is looking at is on the bottom.


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

ArchersMom said:


> They bred Darwin to 3 different bitches, all within the same month. So they have 3 litters listed. The one the OP is looking at is on the bottom.


Ah, now I see it. Thanks! I have a three year old Goodie/Darwin offspring. She's an awesome Golden; however, I will say that I find the Goodie line of girls to be determined. Mine is super friendly with both people and other animals and very food motivated so it was easy to do CGC and CGCA. (I'm currently doing CGCU with two of my other Goldens -we test today, in fact- and will do it after the first of the new year with my Goodie/Darwin offspring.) However, I do find it necessary to spend the first few minutes of our training sessions reminding her that it's work time, not play time. She's also super cuddly if you like that trait, which I do. 

OP, I've attached a photo of my Goodie/Darwin offspring playing with my CCI Black Lab. It was taken over the summer. She was whelped in 2014 so she's three years old in the pic.


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## DKap (Nov 7, 2017)

Hi Archers Mom

Thanks for vetting the dam and sire for me. QQ for you- is it concerning that the same coupling has produced a puppy with hip dysplasia? what I mean is that should we avoid the new litter? Should I pass on this coupling and wait for another litter from this kennel. I will be talking to Harry and Pat soon and wanted to know what questions to ask them related to the dam and sire

Thanks a bunch for you help!!!

DKap


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

DKap said:


> Hi Archers Mom
> 
> Thanks for vetting the dam and sire for me. QQ for you- is it concerning that the same coupling has produced a puppy with hip dysplasia? what I mean is that should we avoid the new litter? Should I pass on this coupling and wait for another litter from this kennel. I will be talking to Harry and Pat soon and wanted to know what questions to ask them related to the dam and sire
> 
> ...


I would certainly ask them about the missing hip clearance on their offspring. If they're open and honest about it, I wouldn't necessarily rule the litter out entirely. There's also the chance that the offspring was cleared by PennHip and not OFA. The owner could have had OFA publish a PennHip certification for a nominal fee. But if not, I just don't really like that they chose to breed the same pair. It comes off like they're just trying to save money, even if he is a nice dog. So it's sort of a grey area for me and you'll have to make your own decision on it. Technically, they're following the code of ethics.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Btw, the offspring without a clearance on OFA is listed on k9data with a PennHip score. That's all user entry and doesn't list when the X-rays were taken. PennHip will score as young as 4 months. I wish people would pay the paltry fee to have OFA verify and publish health certifications!


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

DKap said:


> Hi Archers Mom
> 
> QQ for you- is it concerning that the same coupling has produced a puppy with hip dysplasia? what I mean is that should we avoid the new litter?


For me, that would disqualify the breeding. But I am super cautious about this kind of thing.


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## lunathegolden (Jun 18, 2018)

Hi there,

I recently visited Creme Brûlée Goldens, and I got the following info:
1. the online info of Ruby, etc, aren't updated for some reason. She does have all of the clearances, it just isn't updated online, probably because she also used PennHIP for some of the tests.
2. they are very professional and good breeders. She has made me agree to the terms that she will check up on us every once in a while, which is a sign that she cares for her puppies.
3. she has very strict protocols when her dams are pregnant/when the puppies are under 6 weeks, also a sign of a good breeder.

The only way to confirm something is to see for yourself!


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

lunathegolden said:


> Hi there,The only way to confirm something is to see for yourself!


When it comes to verifiing health certifications the way you see for yourself is through the protected entry but publicly available database of OFA. 



lunathegolden said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I recently visited Creme Brûlée Goldens, and I got the following info:
> 1. the online info of Ruby, etc, aren't updated for some reason. She does have all of the clearances, it just isn't updated online, probably because she also used PennHIP for some of the tests.


No, these dogs do not have anywhere near full certifications as defined by the Golden Retriever Club of America which sets the ethical breeding/testing standards for the US. I have annotated screen shots below to help you see exactly what you aren’t getting from this health risky breeder. 

Sure the sire could have PennHIP, but was it done after the age of 24 months? Is the score and appropriate score for a breeding dog, since PennHIP has no pass/fail status? Is it real or could it be a fraudulent document? 
I don’t use PennHIP for several of the reasons above but I have excellent peer breeders that do and they pay a nominal fee to OFA to have the test easily and publicly verifiable to buyers. If this breeder has the PennHIP and there is nothing to hide, why have they not taken any of the gobs of puppy money they make to get them listed on OFA? 

So, that is the hips but even worse is the elbows. OFA is the only testing organization in the US. Niether parent has their elbows on OFA which means that do not have elbow certifications at all. If you were shown paperwork for elbows, it was either a deficient elbow preliminary report done on young dogs as a “peek” into elbow health prior to the more rigorous and mature joint evaluation that comes from the actual certification at 24 months or older or it was a fraudulent document. 

Eyes on both are not appropriate in that they are either missing or expired. Sure they could show you an exam form but, are you an expert at reading those? I am not and I have seen dozens from my own and peer breeders dogs. If it is not on OFA (which again is a nominal feed, about the price of a lunch) it could be a fraudulent or altered form. I am sad to say I have seen form alteration before and it is shockingly easy to do. 

Hearts on both are deficient because they were done by a regular pet vet instead of a Cardiologist. Since Goldens have potentially lethal heart issues this is a huge concern. If you saw other heart exam forms, how did you verify the vet who performed was a Cardiologist? Again if the breeder would pay the nominal fee to post any new tests you would not have that problem, though I doubt there were new tests as the deficient hearts are listed on OFA. 

Between these two parent dogs there is only 1 of the 8 (4 for each parent) that should be there. This is not a breeder who is showing dedication to the breed or health. They are showing dedication to making money.



lunathegolden said:


> 2. they are very professional and good breeders. She has made me agree to the terms that she will check up on us every once in a while, which is a sign that she cares for her puppies.
> 3. she has very strict protocols when her dams are pregnant/when the puppies are under 6 weeks, also a sign of a good breeder.


While I am glad these things are in order, they are not all that unusual even for less than reputable breeders. Especially the controls for disease exposure. No business wants damaged goods and sick puppies are not easy to sell and dead puppies make no money at all, so I am not particularly impressed with disease controls as 1 of a list of 3 items trying to show a lack luster breeder in positive light. 

No, this is not a good breeder. While I am glad you are happy with them and clearly excited about your new puppy, I would recommend highly that buyers looking for a responsible breeder that is putting health first run from this type of breeder. It is frightening that clearly based on this review, they are happy to lie or mislead buyers into believing there are appropriate health tests in place when that is clearly impossible.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Oh and Fiona is not any better either.


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## laurenC (Sep 20, 2017)

I am referring to Emerald Acres- My one concern out of this breeder is they sell their puppies to a random dog trainer who sells them for 15k. they don't pay attention to who even ends up with their puppies. HUGE HUGE HUGE red flag. I know I almost bought a puppy out of that same sire before I did a LOT of homework.


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## laurenC (Sep 20, 2017)

and by "only" I mean that is my addition to the other MAJOR redflags raised.


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