# Silvermine Kennels - interesting clause in their contracts...



## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

So what next....Silvermine puppy buyers you are not allowed to have your dogs xrayed, hearts examined by board certified cardiologists or eyes examined by canine opthamologists and post said results in OFA because that will cause Silvermine irreparable harm??? 
Give me a break!


----------



## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

LibertyME said:


> So what next....Silvermine puppy buyers you are not allowed to have your dogs xrayed, hearts examined by board certified cardiologists or eyes examined by canine opthamologists and post said results in OFA because that will cause Silvermine irreparable harm???
> Give me a break!


Well no - that gets a little more confusing because in one paragraph of their "breeder puppy contract", it says: (emphasis mine)


> Buyer(s) *shall have* the dog’s hips and elbows evaluated by the Othopedic Foundation Of America (“OFA”).


and in another part:


> Buyer(s) *may have* the dog’s hips and elbows evaluated by the Orthopedic Foundation Of America ("OFA").


Evidently though, Silvermine themselves either don't do OFA or they only do prelims since very few, if any, of the dogs listed on their site have final OFA clearances. (With the notable exception of the White Dove bitch who came to them with those final clearances already done). Also, there is absolutely NOTHING in this contract about having eyes and hearts done and their "warranty" only covers their pups hearts, eyes, and elbows "within one(1) year of the animal’s birth date". :uhoh:

Since the wording in the contract says "disparaging remarks", I am thinking that if you had the results posted publicly as proof to back up what was said, they would not win in court. However, I'm guessing that they would still sue knowing that most people would probably not have the money to fight it.


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I'm going to preface my comment with a big ol' "I'M NOT A LAWYER," so please take the rest of what I say with that in mind.

That clause is unenforceable, I think, though it would certainly give me pause. It's certainly not written by a lawyer. "Disparaging" means to represent as having little worth, so it would actually cover a pretty limited set of circumstances, though it's clearly intended to prevent any and all criticism.

But anyway, contracts cannot supersede existing legal protections, so you can write clauses like that as much as you want, but if they conflict with an existing state or federal law, they can't be enforced. You cannot set aside your rights simply by initialing a clause like this. There are ways you can give up your right to disclose certain kinds of information (i.e., there can be non-compete contracts and trade secret clauses), but nothing as broad-reaching as what the Silvermine folks have tried for here.

In this case, as long as the person who signed the contract followed the rules of good manners and common sense like sticking to the facts and not using heated language,—which I'd recommend even if you haven't signed a clause like this—I don't see how they could be held to that $5000/comment provision. They could, however, be dragged into court over it, which would be unpleasant, even if they won.

If you think about it, you'd be a fool to sign a clause like that, enforceable or not. For me, it would be the biggest red flag of all that a breeder was attempting to prevent me from any kind of discussion of problems down the road. It makes it sound like the breeder is gearing up to screw me over and is trying to get me to sign away my rights to any recourse. What if they really did do something wrong? According to the clause, I'd just have to accept it and let them do whatever they want, because even a private conversation that doesn't reflect well on Silvermine would theoretically cost me $5000.


----------



## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

hehe - same preface here, I am no lawyer and I do not play one on tv.  This is merely my opinion, it should not be considered as anything more than that.

I would think that this particular clause could be considered unconscionable under the law. Unconscionability is defined as "a contract or bargain which is so unfair to a party that no reasonable or informed person would agree to it." Considering that it applies to both public AND private conversations, I would think that unconscionability would apply. However, the person arguing that would again have to defend themselves in court.


----------



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

As we've seen in other threads though, I wonder how many of their customers actually sit down and read the contract and think it through before signing it. I'm glad you started this thread. Maybe it will come up in an internet search for the breeder's name and it will give someone pause.


----------



## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

nolefan said:


> As we've seen in other threads though, I wonder how many of their customers actually sit down and read the contract and think it through before signing it. I'm glad you started this thread. Maybe it will come up in an internet search for the breeder's name and it will give someone pause.


I was thinking the same thing about people actually reading and understanding the contract before they sign. I would be willing to bet that even those who do read it and know what it means still sign. If they don't sign, they have to walk away from a puppy (and a $500 deposit).

I wonder what Silvermine says to the ones who do actually read that part and question it?


----------



## Sterling Archer (Feb 8, 2011)

That essentially says that you're signing away your first amendment rights. Lol. You can say anything negative about someone or something (i.e. a business) that you want to...provided your statements are true. However, if your comments aren't true...you're going to get dragged into court based on slander or libel (depending on the form of communication used).


----------



## jagmanbrg (Jan 4, 2011)

I spoke with the owner a while back in my initial breeder search, after talking with him, this doesn't surprise me one bit. The guy is 100% in it for the money, he's capitalizing as much as he can off of the "English Cream" fad. I guess I can say that though, since I didn't initial that contract....lol what a joke.


----------



## Modrnsage (Mar 20, 2012)

Well..here goes. 
My dog is 10 mos. old today. We purchased the dog ($2900 with shipping) from Silvermine Kennels in Kentucky. The dog just came home yesterday from a local orthopedic vet in New York after having surgery to repair "Severe Elbow Dysplagia" The bill for the surgery alone was $3900. Not including all the months of in and out of the vet, xrays, meds etc..
I must say, we absolutely love this dog and he is GORGEOUS. With that being said, I did call Mike Denny and explained to him that Dannen has been limping for months & it turns out the poor puppy has very bad dysplagia in his elbow and...arthritis (he was 9 mos. when we found out) Turns out, I knew there was no way I would get any help with the vet bills, and I wasn't expecting it quite honestly. I just called to let him know that is in his bloodlines. I was told that no one EVER came back to him with that complaint. What I was told was that his warranty on the puppy was that I return our dog to him..he would have the elbow repaired and resell the dog as a "housepet". Then, he would send me a brand new puppy. 
I am being quite careful in not using any "disparaging" remarks, because yes, I did sign that clause too. We too have been advised by counsel that it's unenforcable, but whats done is done at this point. Am I an unhappy Golden Retriever owner? You betcha' !!
Do with it what you wish..this was our experience with Silvermine Kennels.


----------



## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

So sorry for your problem. Good for you that you got the needed surgery. In this forum, you will find breeders that stand by their dogs and then breeders like the one your pup came from...


----------



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Well..here goes.
> My dog is 10 mos. old today. We purchased the dog ($2900 with shipping) from Silvermine Kennels in Kentucky. The dog just came home yesterday from a local orthopedic vet in New York after having surgery to repair "Severe Elbow Dysplagia" The bill for the surgery alone was $3900. Not including all the months of in and out of the vet, xrays, meds etc..
> I must say, we absolutely love this dog and he is GORGEOUS. With that being said, I did call Mike Denny and explained to him that Dannen has been limping for months & it turns out the poor puppy has very bad dysplagia in his elbow and...arthritis (he was 9 mos. when we found out) Turns out, I knew there was no way I would get any help with the vet bills, and I wasn't expecting it quite honestly. I just called to let him know that is in his bloodlines. I was told that no one EVER came back to him with that complaint. What I was told was that his warranty on the puppy was that I return our dog to him..he would have the elbow repaired and resell the dog as a "housepet". Then, he would send me a brand new puppy.
> I am being quite careful in not using any "disparaging" remarks, because yes, I did sign that clause too. We too have been advised by counsel that it's unenforcable, but whats done is done at this point. Am I an unhappy Golden Retriever owner? You betcha' !!
> Do with it what you wish..this was our experience with Silvermine Kennels.


I'm so sorry for what your poor puppy has been through and so glad that you have done everything you can for him. I just wanted to thank you for taking time to share your experience. I always hope with threads like this, that if even one person researching this breeder sees what you wrote it may save someone else the same heartache. Bless you.


----------



## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Wow, that is absolutely crazy to have a clause like that- it practically advertises you have unhappy clients and bad blood ahead.


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Well..here goes.
> My dog is 10 mos. old today. We purchased the dog ($2900 with shipping) from Silvermine Kennels in Kentucky. The dog just came home yesterday from a local orthopedic vet in New York after having surgery to repair "Severe Elbow Dysplagia" The bill for the surgery alone was $3900. Not including all the months of in and out of the vet, xrays, meds etc..
> I must say, we absolutely love this dog and he is GORGEOUS. With that being said, I did call Mike Denny and explained to him that Dannen has been limping for months & it turns out the poor puppy has very bad dysplagia in his elbow and...arthritis (he was 9 mos. when we found out) Turns out, I knew there was no way I would get any help with the vet bills, and I wasn't expecting it quite honestly. I just called to let him know that is in his bloodlines. I was told that no one EVER came back to him with that complaint. What I was told was that his warranty on the puppy was that I return our dog to him..he would have the elbow repaired and resell the dog as a "housepet". Then, he would send me a brand new puppy.
> I am being quite careful in not using any "disparaging" remarks, because yes, I did sign that clause too. We too have been advised by counsel that it's unenforcable, but whats done is done at this point. Am I an unhappy Golden Retriever owner? You betcha' !!
> Do with it what you wish..this was our experience with Silvermine Kennels.


 
This is both outrageous, and sad. Resold as a "housepet"??? What does that even mean? What was the dog originally sold as? 

I'm sad for the poor dogs bred and sold by breeders like this. The "lucky" ones end up with owners like you. I'm outraged because it is entirely preventable. I hope Dannen recovers fully and experiences no further health issues.


----------



## Modrnsage (Mar 20, 2012)

Just a footnote: 

The next Golden we get, I will thoroughly do my research and make sure that we are guided by the Golden Retriever Forums. I love these boards. So much information and education here. Thanks guys ♥


----------



## roxygirl (Nov 3, 2012)

I must say I am very glad to have come across this forum. I have been looking into Silvermine Kennels and decided before I placed a deposit on their current litter to do a google search for Review Silvermine Kennel Kentucky and your forum came up. I am looking for breeding rights and was impressed by the pedigree of their dogs. I did not see any health clearance info but when I spoke to Mike he told me he does have that and would email me copies of their official reports. I did just see that clause on their contract and that gave me serious red-flags. It prevents someone like me from really checking out a breeder because you technically won't find any negative feedback. 

Rebekah


----------



## roxygirl (Nov 3, 2012)

Here is my position. I am disabled and currently have a Service Dog Australian Shepherd who is wonderful and LOVES to work. She is however small and I cannot do mobility work with her because of her small size and I won't compromise her health. I have forever been in love with Golden Retrievers and was researching English and American Golden Retrievers (AKC verses KC) and it appears that English generally are healthier, and live longer?? I need a dog that will have a stable temperament, stellar health, health clearance on parents, CH bloodlines, etc. I am also looking for full registration. I have a degree in Animal Technology and am a Positive Reinforcement Dog Trainer. I have developed some disabilities so my dog training of other people's dogs is very limited but I do know what I am doing. Cali, my current Service Dog is almost 3, I have had her since she was 8 weeks old, and trained her entirely by myself. She will not be going anywhere and will continue to be my Service Dog part-time. I do breed on occasion and breed for solid Service Dog temperaments. I imprint my puppies on diabetic low blood sugar and the best candidates are placed as Diabetic Alert Service Dog Prospects (DAD). My last litter of Australian Shepherds 14 months ago, we had 8 puppies and 4 of those puppies went on to be DADs In-Training and are all doing wonderfully. They have all saved their Diabetic person's life on more than one occasion, one dog was nominated for Hero Dog of the Year, another just had a news article written about him and his amazing nose. So my puppies are very successful. I am extremely responsible in my breeding; I don't breed until the dogs are both a minimum of 24 months old with full health clearances complete, I breed every other heat cycle at most, my dogs are my family (I have two dogs right now so they are family and live in my home and sleep on my bed), and each puppy comes with; dewclaws removed, at least 2 vet visits, first round of vaccines, fecal exam, microchipped, diabetic low blood sugar started, bio sensor exposed, registered with AKC, health guarantee, and a lifetime of support. I will also take back any of my puppies at any time for any reason. So I don't take this lightly. I am looking to shift gears from breeding Aussies to Goldens because lets face it, Goldens generally have stellar temperaments. They are also easier to train especially for a novice handler. I guess my question is; are there breeders out there that you all can recommend?


----------



## Maverick James (Feb 27, 2012)

I was going to totally pass on making any remark about the soundness and legality of contracts like this, however in the end I could not pass up the chance........

If a contract like this was created by a qualified attorney whose focus was to provide enforceable protection for his clients breeding program, then he would never state a set amount because basically what this says is that I can total destroy the breeders reputation and thereby their business model/standing in the breeding community and as long as I do it in a single disbaraging remark, the max/min it will cost me is $5,000.

Anyone who has tallied up the cost of providing proper care for a dog who has been breed under a sub-standard program would probably agree that $5,000 is a bargain.

Thus, this kind of language is a bullying/scare tactic and frankly whatever the context, should be seen as huge red flag..... period.


----------



## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

It is no different then signing a prenup. The breeder is planning how it may negatively end when it hasn't even begun. He must have doubt in the success of his breeding practice.


----------



## golden_eclipse (Apr 1, 2011)

If you truly want a quality bitch to breed, you will be hard pressed to convince a reputable breeder to sell with full registration, unless you had already a strong relationship with that breeder, or could prove that you had titled many dogs in the past, and always breed with health clearances. The fact that you were almost fooled by silvermine kennels, demonstrates you have a lot of research to do before you think about breeding goldens. Good luck in your search, glad you didn't put a deposit on a puppy from silvermine. 




roxygirl said:


> Here is my position. I am disabled and currently have a Service Dog Australian Shepherd who is wonderful and LOVES to work. She is however small and I cannot do mobility work with her because of her small size and I won't compromise her health. I have forever been in love with Golden Retrievers and was researching English and American Golden Retrievers (AKC verses KC) and it appears that English generally are healthier, and live longer?? I need a dog that will have a stable temperament, stellar health, health clearance on parents, CH bloodlines, etc. I am also looking for full registration. I have a degree in Animal Technology and am a Positive Reinforcement Dog Trainer. I have developed some disabilities so my dog training of other people's dogs is very limited but I do know what I am doing. Cali, my current Service Dog is almost 3, I have had her since she was 8 weeks old, and trained her entirely by myself. She will not be going anywhere and will continue to be my Service Dog part-time. I do breed on occasion and breed for solid Service Dog temperaments. I imprint my puppies on diabetic low blood sugar and the best candidates are placed as Diabetic Alert Service Dog Prospects (DAD). My last litter of Australian Shepherds 14 months ago, we had 8 puppies and 4 of those puppies went on to be DADs In-Training and are all doing wonderfully. They have all saved their Diabetic person's life on more than one occasion, one dog was nominated for Hero Dog of the Year, another just had a news article written about him and his amazing nose. So my puppies are very successful. I am extremely responsible in my breeding; I don't breed until the dogs are both a minimum of 24 months old with full health clearances complete, I breed every other heat cycle at most, my dogs are my family (I have two dogs right now so they are family and live in my home and sleep on my bed), and each puppy comes with; dewclaws removed, at least 2 vet visits, first round of vaccines, fecal exam, microchipped, diabetic low blood sugar started, bio sensor exposed, registered with AKC, health guarantee, and a lifetime of support. I will also take back any of my puppies at any time for any reason. So I don't take this lightly. I am looking to shift gears from breeding Aussies to Goldens because lets face it, Goldens generally have stellar temperaments. They are also easier to train especially for a novice handler. I guess my question is; are there breeders out there that you all can recommend?


----------



## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

You may want to look at Timberee, they are in Colorado I believe. If you look at the sticky in the "choosing Golden Retriever Breeder/Puppy" sub-forum you will see a page about "English Goldens." They are not overall more healthy than American Goldens. Finally, you need to find a reputable breeder you like and then build a good relationship with the breeder, they may feel comfortable giving you a pup on a full registration.


----------



## roxygirl (Nov 3, 2012)

kdowningxc said:


> If you truly want a quality bitch to breed, you will be hard pressed to convince a reputable breeder to sell with full registration, unless you had already a strong relationship with that breeder, or could prove that you had titled many dogs in the past, and always breed with health clearances. The fact that you were almost fooled by silvermine kennels, demonstrates you have a lot of research to do before you think about breeding goldens. Good luck in your search, glad you didn't put a deposit on a puppy from silvermine.


The first time I spoke with Silvermine Kennels was yesterday. I hadn't had the chance to read their contract until yesterday, I had just found them. And as soon as I read that clause it brought about redflags so I don't think I was "fooled" by then in any way shape or form.


----------



## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

roxygirl said:


> The first time I spoke with Silvermine Kennels was yesterday. I hadn't had the chance to read their contract until yesterday, I had just found them. And as soon as I read that clause it brought about redflags so I don't think I was "fooled" by then in any way shape or form.


Maybe not fooled, but it does sound like a mentor in the golden world is needed to help you achieve your goals--one that will help you understand pedigrees and be able to help evaluate them. My concern is that you were "*impressed by the pedigree of their dogs*" which means you could use some assistance navigating the world of goldens and I do hope you don't fall into the "english cream" shopping for goldens by color as opposed by your stated purpose - diabetic alert dogs. 

As you're clearly past Silvermine, I'd recommend starting a new thread of your own to garner input from others. Another avenue to pursue is joining your local Golden Retriever Club. Despite your past breeding experience & as kdowningxc stated you're going to have build a relationship with a reputable breeder in order to secure full registration. I don't doubt there are less than stellar breeders out there that will sell you a golden on full registration--I do hope that you take your time and do it right--we have enough BYBs claiming to produce therapy dogs.


----------



## Mayve (Aug 21, 2012)

If you do a google search on Silvermine Kennels, there are quite a few warnings about them...Perhaps that is why they tried the "bully tactics" in their contract.


----------



## roxygirl (Nov 3, 2012)

SheetsSM said:


> ... I do hope you don't fall into the "english cream" shopping for goldens by color as opposed by your stated purpose - diabetic alert dogs.


Thank you for the information. No I am not stuck on color by any means. I have been told that in general the English Goldens are healthier, less risk of cancer, and tend to live longer than American Goldens?? I want a quality dog, color doesn't matter.


----------



## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

roxygirl said:


> Thank you for the information. No I am not stuck on color by any means. I have been told that in general the English Goldens are healthier, less risk of cancer, and tend to live longer than American Goldens?? I want a quality dog, color doesn't matter.



This is not true.


----------



## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

My two cents, many "good/reputable" breeders wil get their hackles up, if you approach them saying you want full registration so that you can breed.... You should find a mentor, as previous posters have suggested.


----------



## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

roxygirl said:


> Thank you for the information. No I am not stuck on color by any means. I have been told that in general the English Goldens are healthier, less risk of cancer, and tend to live longer than American Goldens?? I want a quality dog, color doesn't matter.


Not true and I breed English Goldens and that is totally not true and I totally agree with Sally.... I can tell you that my hackles went up when I read your post....


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

roxygirl said:


> Thank you for the information. No I am not stuck on color by any means. I have been told that in general the English Goldens are healthier, less risk of cancer, and tend to live longer than American Goldens?? I want a quality dog, color doesn't matter.


Nah. That's a myth that profiteer breeders will write on their websites. There's no basis in reality. They just copy and paste the same language from each other's websites. They claim to be comparing a couple of health surveys of British and American Goldens, but they're cherrypicking statistics and distorting them to make the claims. It's been picked apart pretty thoroughly around here.


----------



## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Before going anywhere in breeding Goldens, you really need to find a mentor who will be willing to teach you and spend the time informing you on certain pedigrees. Goldens have a lot of health problems (mostly genetic) and we still have very little information about a lot of them. Although we might think of where they might have come from, we can't assume.

So, do your research, find another breeder with loads of experience and soak up all the information you are learning. It is truly fascinating to learn about the different lines of dogs.


----------



## roxygirl (Nov 3, 2012)

So just an update from when I had asked Silvermine Kennels for copies of his Sire and Dam's health clearances and also some pictures of his facility. (Originally he said no problem but I got this reply)

I am sorry but with as many scams that are happening today, like people impersonating our kennel. you are asking for too much information. This info would make it very easy to do and is more than I am comfortable sharing before the sale.

I replied with this: 
So you won't share health clearance information? How then do you ever sale a puppy? Any reputable breeder would gladly share that info. And pictures of their facility. How am I supposed to know whether you are a backyard breeder or puppy mill if you are unwilling to disclose this info? Not to mention handing over $3,000 when I don't even know if your dogs have passed all their health clearances? No worries on my part, I am glad I interview people before handing over my money so I can find a breeder that gives full disclosure so I know I am getting a quality dog!


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

roxygirl said:


> So just an update from when I had asked Silvermine Kennels for copies of his Sire and Dam's health clearances and also some pictures of his facility. (Originally he said no problem but I got this reply)
> 
> I am sorry but with as many scams that are happening today, like people impersonating our kennel. you are asking for too much information. This info would make it very easy to do and is more than I am comfortable sharing before the sale.
> 
> ...



Honestly no one should ever hand over any amount ($100 or $10,000) for a pup without personally visiting the breeder and the facilities. Pictures are too easy to falsify. And clearances should be available online in databases to confirm. Especially when both parents are not on premise. JMHO though.


----------



## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

I just saw this thread and wanted to reply to the original post.

I am a California lawyer. Those kind of "non-disparagement clauses" are common in certain kinds of contracts -- business contracts, employment separation agreements, etc. -- and are generally enforceable, at least here in California. You can, indeed, give up your right to disparage another in exchange for valuable consideration. It's a bargained for exchange: you give up something (right to bad mouth someone) in exchange for getting something (a payment, a puppy, whatever). Now, where that line is can be murky. In this case, is posting a failing hip/elbow/heart/eye exam disparagement? Possibly. The thing about anti-disparagement clauses is that it doesn't matter whether it's a true or false statement, it matters only if it paints the breeder in a negative light.

The liquidated damages clause is likewise probably generally enforceable. It is common in disparagement clauses, and $5,000 is not an unreasonable amount. In order to be binding it has to be difficult to determine the actual damages caused by the breach and the amount has to be a reasonable estimate of probable actual damages. So, I'd bet that this whole clause is generally enforceable, at least in the state where I live, and at least in the kinds of contracts in which these clauses typically appear.

But I've never seen a non-disparagement and liquidated damages clause in a contract for purchase of personal property (and let's face it, that's what a puppy contract is). If I were the puppy buyer, my argument would be that it's not enforceable in this kind of contract, as these kinds of clauses are intended and typically used in the severance of relationships, not in the purchase of goods or services. In that situation, I think you do have an unwaivable First Amendment right of expression, and as long as what you say is true, I think you should feel free to say it.

That doesn't mean it won't get you sued, though. There's a difference between winning a lawsuit and avoiding one. And it may be that this kennel knows that the clause is unenforceable, but puts it in there anyway, simply to put a chill on potential criticism and make people think twice before making negative comments.


----------



## BenP (Mar 28, 2009)

There's no way that's enforceable. It's a scare tactic. $5,000 per remark? Good luck.


----------



## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

BenP said:


> There's no way that's enforceable. It's a scare tactic. $5,000 per remark? Good luck.


In the U.S., and in the types of contracts where liquidated damages are stated for violation of non-disparagement clauses, it is absolutely typical and absolutely enforceable. And it's reasonable in the case of the puppy contract, as one can argue that a disparaging comment could cost the breeder the sale of two or three puppies, which would meet or exceed the $5,000 penalty.

The only question here, really, is not whether the $5,000 is enforceable (it is, and is a typical amount), but whether a non-disparagement clause in a puppy contract is enforceable. I think it's not, but I'll bet no judge has ever had to decide that before, and there is no legal precedent on point, so anyone sued runs the risk of some judge deciding that it's enforceable until a higher judge decides that it's not.

In fact, though, there are many things in puppy contracts that aren't enforceable, and breeders across the country use them, anyway.


----------



## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

If you do an internet search for Silvermine and their son's kennel Snowwhite Goldens, this clause does not seem to be preventing people from complaining about these kennels.


----------



## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

Below is a portion of the puppy contract. Can it be that they do not let you visit and they only deliver? I would never get a puppy where I could not visit or pick up my puppy. Is this shipping fee just another way to overcharge? Then on top of delivery charges you have to pay them for a crate and additional handling charges? Am I reading this correctly?

I do feel bad for the puppy buyers who have been taken advantage of by many breeders because they many not know any better. Red flag, red flag, red flag.....no clearances....no way.I can hear it now "we don't let anyone on the property for the fear of parvo" Not giving enough information or clearance confirmation before deposit is the scam. People if you can't visit, get validation of health clearances, outrages over charges.... I would keep looking. Poor health puppies are cute too... the sad part is cute sells.

_

Silvermine contract below:
Seller shall give consideration in the form of delivering the purchased animal, and performance in accordance with the terms and conditions set forth in this agreement.

The Seller hereby accepts a non-refundable deposit of $500.00 (to be given/mailed to Seller with contract) toward the purchase of the puppy identified below.

The full purchase price is $_______________.00 and the balance of $_______________.00 is due 2 weeks before the puppy is delivered by the Seller to the Buyer(s) (in order to allow processing time for the funds). Crate, Shipping, and any additional Handling expenses are the responsibility of, and shall be paid by, the Buyer(s). The current flat rate for this service is Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00). Buyer(s) agree(s) to this additional charge for this additional service.
___________ Buyer_


----------



## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

Hopefully, some unsuspecting puppy buyer will google their name and see this thread and think twice about purchasing from these people. 

I did notice that a lot of doodle breeders get their goldens from there. I guess they don't ask too many questions if you can pay the cash and have a shipping address.


----------



## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

Millie'sMom said:


> Hopefully, some unsuspecting puppy buyer will google their name and see this thread and think twice about purchasing from these people.
> 
> I did notice that a lot of doodle breeders get their goldens from there. I guess they don't ask too many questions if you can pay the cash and have a shipping address.



The mixed new puppy owners don't understand that the parent of these "designers" are usually not the best representation of the breed. They usually do not come from lines with clearances or breeders that care about anything then money. You would never see a good breeder who is cares about their line or work hard for better breeding give one of their dogs for mixing. It is a shame but if you give the puppy a name like doodle or snoodle and call it designer people will be fooled. Cute sell and apparently at a ridiculous price for what everyone used in history has called a mutt. When ever I meet someone who says "I have a shed-less golden" I ask "are you sure you don't have a shedding poodle?" Why not just get a standard poodle they are fantastic. They are 100% non shedders vs mixing them to 50%. They are great dogs and would love to have one as part of my bucket list of great breeds to own. As a golden breeder this now could never be possible as people would question my intention but standards are great dogs. I know many of shelters that have been in the business for way to long with designers for just a small donation fee. They just won't take advantage of you and the only name they call their dog/puppies is "someone who needs a home".


----------



## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

MGMF said:


> Below is a portion of the puppy contract. Can it be that they do not let you visit and they only deliver? I would never get a puppy where I could not visit or pick up my puppy. Is this shipping fee just another way to overcharge? Then on top of delivery charges you have to pay them for a crate and additional handling charges? Am I reading this correctly?
> 
> I do feel bad for the puppy buyers who have been taken advantage of by many breeders because they many not know any better. Red flag, red flag, red flag.....no clearances....no way.I can hear it now "we don't let anyone on the property for the fear of parvo" Not giving enough information or clearance confirmation before deposit is the scam. People if you can't visit, get validation of health clearances, outrages over charges.... I would keep looking. Poor health puppies are cute too... the sad part is cute sells.
> 
> ...


The term "delivered" in such contracts means simply that possession is tendered or transferred by whatever means, whether it's personally picking it up, FOB, or whatever. It doesn't mean necessarily that they ship. It just means they give you (i.e. deliver) the pup.


----------



## Azbak63 (May 11, 2021)

tippykayak said:


> I'm going to preface my comment with a big ol' "I'M NOT A LAWYER," so please take the rest of what I say with that in mind.
> 
> That clause is unenforceable, I think, though it would certainly give me pause. It's certainly not written by a lawyer. "Disparaging" means to represent as having little worth, so it would actually cover a pretty limited set of circumstances, though it's clearly intended to prevent any and all criticism.
> 
> ...


I baught a white dog from them about 12 years ago she was the best dog in the world she would do whatever i asked her to.the only problem was that i found out she was born in russia then flew over to Kentucky had be quarenteend for a week and I never did get her registerd it was going to cost me alot more because of where she came from no one told me anything about it until after I got her.even though shat was very afraid because of her plane ride best dog i ever met


----------

