# Aurora Goldens / dishonest breeder



## Sirfoulhook (Dec 2, 2011)

wow sorry to hear about your troubles. hope everything turns out ok. Thanks for the warning


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

It's concerning that the puppy had fleas and ticks - and definitely if you had the vet exam done the same day as picking up your puppy - it is a guarantee that your puppy had these parasites at the breeder vs picking them up where you live. I'm pointing this out, because it's insane how quick the dogs pick up ticks. <= I had my dogs hiking and we also were at a dog show last week - and not only did I get to see my first deer tick, but we plucked like 4 or 5 off of me or Bertie. He is covered for ticks but it failed with him. In theory. One of the ticks was dead already when we found it - but it was still embedded. The stuff we have him on should actually kill the ticks on contact or at least discourage them from biting. 

Just throwing that out there. And fleas, could be in your house or yard already. 

It might definitely be your puppy had fleas and ticks on it from the breeder's home - esp if the puppies were kept outside? But I'm going to say that unless you went directly to the vet and there was no exposure to other locations before the vet... the breeder can just explain that the puppy picked up the ticks and fleas from your property. 

The other red flags... I'm waffling here because I don't necessarily see them as red flags. I'm not trying to protect this breeder, in fact I immediately saw two red flags when I looked briefly at their website and I'll share those red flags momentarily. Just going over a few quick notes.....

1. Co-ownerships - I actually know of a few breeders who sell all puppies like this. A lot of it is making sure that in case a home turns out badly, they have a right to claim ownership of the puppy. And I think it also prevents people from going to UKC and registering their dogs there so they can breed them with a "legitimate" registration. I think if there is a co-ownership, it complicates things for people who was to get around the limited registration. 

I'm probably not explaining this clearly, as I've never had to co-own a dog. But I do know people who always sell puppies with them as a co-owner. I think that with some people it really doesn't matter because many aren't even interested in registering their dogs anyway. 

It is only a problem if this comes back to her one line:

"Some puppies may be shown and we will work with you with special considerations." <= And/or the breeder intending to use your puppy for breeding purposes. This would be a case of you legitimately telling her that you did not agree to any of this and you do not want your dog shown or bred (if don't want all that). 

2. Registering your dog for you - it is actually not too crazy. I know a lot of really decent breeders who do this. Again, it's because a lot of pet people won't remember to register the puppies. 

This happened with one of our dogs. And how it worked out was my sisters were on a waiting list before our dog was even born. They were told how it would all work out - and the breeder wanted them to take the weeks leading up to the puppy being born and waiting for the puppy to be old enough to bring home - the breeder wanted them to really think about a good registration name for this puppy. She had them fill out the paperwork there at her house. They were the ones writing in the registered name and so on. She was the one who handled the paperwork and mailing it in to AKC. 

Ideally, that is how your breeder should have handled the situation with your puppy. The fact you didn't know about how the registration would be handled and it's not spelled out on their website - it is a genuine complaint about communication. The breeder doing the registration herself and making sure she was the co-owner, etc... that isn't a red flag. 

3. 7 weeks isn't too early. The moms by the time the puppies are 5-6 weeks old really start wanting to be anywhere else but with the chew factory. The puppies are very insistent on feeding all the time. Their teeth are sharp. There's no reason to keep puppies with their moms until 8-9 weeks old. A lot of breeders keep them until 8 weeks, I believe because they want to see what the litter really looks like and they've not yet made their own choice as far as a puppy they will keep. 

4. Don't do anything about the eyelid. Your puppy may grow out of that. 

5. Peeing every 15 minutes - is actually kinda normal for a puppy. It can be a sign that the puppy has a UTI, but not always. <= My youngest boy who came home at 9.5 weeks was in and out nonstop practically through 12-14 weeks when his bladder finally got a little bigger. He didn't have any accidents really, but he definitely was a nonstop pee factory as far as always wanting to go outside for potty. 

6. K9Data is voluntary. And not using it isn't a bad thing. It's doofy because people like to see pedigrees of the puppies they are buying. And it's frustrating when you go to look up the parents and nope, not in there. 

It is more of a bad thing if you go to look up the dogs in OFA and they are not listed. That a heavy duty red flag. I didn't check any of the Aurora dogs to see if they are in there, but bottom line that's where a breeder really is not doing their best to select healthy dogs to breed. 

I'm not going to get carried away - but I know really good breeders who kinda were freaked out by K9Data back when it was starting to take off. One breeder esp had a fit about somebody putting her dogs in there against her wishes. She felt it was a privacy issue and - might be. A lot of people use K9Data to research health and longevity of lines. It can be used a cat fight tool between breeders, definitely.... 

7. Getting a litter checked by a vet. I think maybe some breeders here might want to describe the process. Some people do more than others - including a breeder friend who took a whole litter to get the eyes checked via eye clinic with an eye specialist. She used a clinic, because she gasped about spending $50 per puppy - with a lot of puppies. I always assumed that they have a vet go over the litter and checking eyes, hearts, etc and making sure there's nothing to note. 

The breeders themselves may do a lot of the veterinary type of stuff like worming the puppies and giving them the first shots. 

Now the red flags that I saw?

1. They sell puppies to anyone anywhere, sight unseen, no screening apparently. They ship puppies all over the place.

2. You have credit card? You can buy a puppy by credit card from them....


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## BrianO (Apr 7, 2016)

Sorry you are having such a rough beginning with your pup.

I don't have much expertise, but would comment about a couple things mentioned here. Oklahoma is one of the states to have laws that the minimum age to legally sell a puppy is 8 weeks old. If you had ownership before 8 weeks, that law was broken. There are several reasons for this law: a barrier to puppy mills, decreasing dog bite statistics, decreasing spread of puppy disease, and long term health of the puppy.

A puppy separated from its mother and litter before 8 weeks may need focused training on bite inhibition.

Adopting Puppies Before 8 Weeks - What You Should Know

There are a few recent threads about Nalyn's Goldens, mostly about negative experiences with them. Your breeder seems to have dogs from this line if not in partnership with Nalyn's.

I can't understand why you did not have more information up front, including a contract. Co-ownership and the terms of that co-ownership should be laid out in the contract.

I hope things will end well for you and the pup.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Thanks for helping me to see a different perspective, maybe red flag wasn't the best way to describe my concerns. 

My questions about the early age came from many articles read online. I have another golden and she took her under her wing and really helped with the mouthing. Those teeth are sharp!

I noticed the bugs before we made our 1st pit stop but understand what you are saying. I always kept my girls on preventative when we showed. I believe the pups were kept in kennels outside as under all that fluff there was lots of dirt. It also took weeks to get her comfortable in the house. 

In fact It took weeks and some very creative training to get her to look at me. She just didn't feel good, tail drooped, low fever and wined all the time. She is starting to feel better and has finally started to connect. She will be a beautiful girl when all this passes. And looking forward to getting more than 3 hrs of sleep as that's as long as she can hold it during the night. We are up to 30 min. during the day.

The k9data issue was my way of checking for any health issues but confirmed the certifications through OFA and wasn't really concerned. I lost a 5 yr old golden in Jan. with renal failure, turns out the sire passed at the age of 8 with renal failure as well. If they choose to post on k9data it can provide perspective buyers with longevity and a convenient way of searching history of the blood lines.

We have just reached 16 weeks and she has begun to out grow the eye issue and vet confirmed there was no damage to the cornea and drainage is almost gone. I was given the choice between 3 pups and it would have been nice to know this was a problem, the drainage didn't show up until the next day. 

We still have pus drainage from the UTI but she has figured out how to tell me when she needs to go, this is good! Vet is concerned there is a bigger issue and still waiting on the results of the culture.

My biggest beef about the co-ownership is the not knowing. It was never discussed and honestly don't understand it. I provided a life history, vet of 50 yrs recommendation and even prior golden breeder references. I'm 65 and the last thing I want to do is breed puppies! The last breeder allowed full registration knowing the girls would be spayed as promised, and they were. I don't like the deception, if this is her practice with all of her puppies it needed to be expressed prior to any monetary exchange or maybe posted on her website. 

She signed a contract implying the pups had been checked by a vet, that is deceptive. She gave the 1st shot and 4 worming treatments from Tractor Supply. Because I am a retired vet tech I have no problem with her doing this but don't tell me they have been checked by a vet it they haven't.

I really have a problem with the fact a breeder can make themselves a co-owner without a buyers permission or knowledge. In my opinion omission of information is no way to do business.


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## BrianO (Apr 7, 2016)

This table may be of use: https://www.animallaw.info/topic/table-state-laws-concerning-minimum-age-sale-puppies


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

That is good information to know.. I was not aware of the law in OK. The puppy turned 7 wks the day after we picked her up. I had a horrible time getting focus and the biting was certainly an issue. Not sure what I would have done without my sweet older golden, she gently put her in her place with the nipping. I squeaked a bunch the 1st few weeks and wore long sleeve sweat shirts! Lots of bandaids later she has finally gotten through this. Focus work is ongoing and is necessary to move forward with her training. 

The call to the breeder's vet (received the vet info. on the Sat. she was picked up) on the Monday after the exchange was disturbing. When they asked which breed litter I was calling about is when I got concerned. The breeder would not let me see where the puppies were kept. I noticed on her website the week after getting this pup she was already getting deposits for another litter of goldens due soon and I have no idea how many other breeds she is selling. I was only allowed a 30 minute window to pick a pup... not what I was expecting.
There is no co-owner contract and have no idea what privileges this provides her. This should have been discussed, she is welcome to help with all the vet bills but don't like the idea she has the right to reposes this pup at any time. 

If her practice is to be co-owner of all her pets this is certainly her choice but not knowing until you receive the papers is very bad business practice. I explained my plans for the pup so the fear of me not putting the papers through should not have been a concern, I can't compete without them. Telling me they have been checked by the vet and not doing it is also deceptive. If we make it through this health issue she will be a wonderful dog. I'm not as convinced she will be all that great in competition if she can't connect. But I like a challenge and she is very smart so hope for the best.

It would have been a good idea to use this website for information in my research on the bloodlines. If there is a next time I will definitely use this resource.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

There's a little semi-silent scuffle going on on the east coast right now about just your issue- a co-own without knowledge, and then holding things hostage. If you are the first owner listed on the papers, you will be the one to get the CH cert for example, if you spend the money and your pup is nice enough to earn one. If not (and this is how the E Coast one was discovered) then the breeder/co-owner will get them. 
Naturally, if you are the one paying for the CH or titles, you will want your CH certificate! 
If your puppy is on limited registration because you're going to do performance, there is no logical reason for co-owning. 
It was asked to describe how the vet check goes. I moved to FL from TN- TN has no laws governing puppy sales/checks/etc. Florida requires an individual health certificate (like you'd use to fly with) for each puppy, issued no earlier than 8 weeks. In TN I gave my own shots, dewormed at 2.4.6 and 8 weeks, and took my puppies in at 7.5 weeks for individual exams. I printed off blank health check paperwork for each puppy, because my vet did not have these. She filled them out as she went over each one- pretty extensive exam, she did a fecal on a couple (because if one has anything, they all do) weighed, checked knees and elbows, teeth, testicles, general appearance, eyes w scope and heart. 
In Florida, the health cert process would prevent a puppy w eye issues being sold. 
they can't be sold w positive coccidia either and all puppies are fecal'd, checked for cocci, worms, etc. Eyes looked at, heart listened to. So far (I've done them at 2 places now) no one has checked knees and elbows. They're weighed of course. And a health cert is issued. I have friends here who have had to keep a puppy until they passed the cocci test, and another friend whose puppy had ectropion (eyelid) and she had to have the surgery performed at 18 weeks-keeping the puppy until it was able to get a certificate. I understand that monorchids are allowed to be sold if they are noted. Not sure on cardiac but I can't imagine a murmur would make the puppy unsaleable. 
Personally, I do all puppy registrations online- I have the people fill out the paperwork and just keep it with the contract, etc. That's because BoM requires 100% registration and it's my experience people do not do them 100%! I've done all registrations for about 10 years... well before BoM came about.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Thanks for all the info and insight. As it turns out this Golden breeder also has websites selling Maltese, Norfolk Terriers and not sure about Border collies... I know she owns one but can't find a website showing she is selling them.
She is not registered as a commercial dog breeder so does not have a license to sell puppies under the guidelines of the Oklahoma state regulations. This has been an interesting journey. I just want my pup to get well and for no one else to receive a sick puppy from her.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> She is not registered as a commercial dog breeder so does not have a license to sell puppies under the guidelines of the Oklahoma state regulations


Tiny comment here - types of people who would have both items may be puppy mills who have to be regulated. Generally not your typical hobby or show breeder.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Megora said:


> Tiny comment here - types of people who would have both items may be puppy mills who have to be regulated. Generally not your typical hobby or show breeder.


Varies from state to state, when I was volunteering w/ rescue trying to influence OK's puppy mill bill, the proposed verbiage rolled in all breeders and rescues based on the number of animals being placed per year--not sure what ended up passing. In GA, we were highly regulated by the state's Dept of Agriculture


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Megora, Not sure what you mean... she is not listed as a licensed breeder with Oklahoma, that I could find anyway. I can't find a website for her border collies but did see show results that listed her as the breeder.
nightingalenorfolks.com weblink for the terriers & wildskyemaltese.com for the maltese. I certainly hope I did not contribute to a puppy mill!

I'm new to this forum and have lots to learn about posting, sorry if I have messed this up.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

SheetsSM, reading the OK regulations it said breeders with less than 11 breeding females were not considered commercial. I searched the list but couldn't find any of the kennel names associated with her name on their list. Should I contact them? My pups mom is from Dogwood Springs / Colleen Maddox and she is considered a very reputable breeder in North Tx. They have co-owned dogs together for many years, it never occurred to me to check for so many other breeds. Maybe I put too much faith in the close knit breeders in this area. I just don't want to see anyone else have to go through all this. It has truly been a learning experience.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

*Dishonest Breeder / Puppy update*

Thought I would give an update on my pup. We are at 4 months and still on medication. It turns out she had a very severe, antibiotic resistant bacterial infection in her bladder... drinking stagnate water? 

The good news is the parasite problem seems to be gone as well as the coccidia so this is progress. 

Thanks to the AKC the breeder has removed herself as a co-owner, so this is good.

It's sad to say that I didn't do such a great job picking a breeder and thanks to the help from people on this forum I have a better idea of what to look for if there is ever a next time.

As it turns out the sire did not have current clearances for hips, elbows or heart. The eyes were up to date but not such good news. The problem my pup had with her eye was a genetic trait and not a turned in eye lash problem. 

The dam had current hips (only "fair"), elbows & heart but no eye clearances. I think this was her first litter as she is only 3. 

The breeder offered a full refund if I was unhappy with the puppy. It's not the puppy I'm unhappy with and shame on me for not doing a better job of checking this breeder out. 

My girl is a part of the family, not an inferior pair of shoes to be returned. This has been a very expensive lesson learned but returning my girl is not an option. The breeder is more than welcome to help pay the vet bills.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

This has been very educational for me. Thanks for sharing your story and being such an advocate for your girl. I hope she continues to get better 


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

*Sipsy update*

Thought I would post a Sipsy update. We have been on medication for the last 4 months for lots of different bugs and she has been a trooper through it all. She has been on this last medication for 6 weeks and finally getting to see her true personality. We made the trip (it's about 2 hrs to this vet) for a follow up culture to ensure the bug is gone. Keep fingers crossed!
I got a copy of the lab results to see what we have been fighting and it turns out she had two different "super bugs" called Kiebsiella pneumoniae & Citrobacter freundii. 

Because this is not the more common bacteria associated with UTI I contacted the breeder to share the info. It seemed like the right thing to do as she has 4 different breeds in her kennels. Sadly her response just confirms she doesn't care about her pups, they are strictly a source of income. 

While Aurora Goldens have some good breeding lines, if you are looking for a caring breeder that wants to retain a connection to the people she sells to this is not the place to be. I was looking for a performance pup to do obedience & agility. The breeder had no clue what the personalities of her puppies were. While I deeply love my girl she lacks the drive and energy I was hoping for... with training we can compete, I just have to work a little harder  She is lacking that want to please mentality but who knows, maybe now that she is feeling better her attitude will improve.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

You may see a totally different personality as she starts to get healthy. Fingers crossed for continued progress.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Thanks guys, your support and input through all this has been very helpful. I did check with the Ok. gov and there is no minimum age to sell puppies. They also say unless she has more than 11 breeding females they don't really care and she is not required to be licensed or regulated by the state.

Moral to the story is do your homework, look for advice on this forum, check reference on the breeder and DEFINITELY visit prior to purchase. 
Check for up to date clearances.
If a breeder has the sire & dam and they are both dirty with huge mats behind their ears, it's not a good sign. Ask to see the kennels or where the puppies are kept. It's not a good sign if they don't want you to see where puppies are kept.
Just because the breeder is cranky and doesn't want to be personable doesn't mean they don't have good dogs but it certainly should tell you it's not someone that is interested in the puppies future or maintaining a relationship.

I messed up, it's been a long and expensive lesson and thru the grace of God, have a wonderful puppy. She does not have the performance level I was promised but couldn't ask for a better companion.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

Your Sispy is absolutely beautiful! Thank you for all of the care you have given her.

I recognize some of the pedigrees from this kennel. They are lovely dogs. I can see why you chose this breeder. I would not have suspected there would be any issues whatsoever. Even with the option for shipping, some very reputable breeders offer this so I would not have immediately become suspicious. 

I hope your girl continues on her healthy path and am so glad she is better!


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## craigtoo (Jan 6, 2016)

Thanks for an informative thread. Sipsy looks like such a cute puppy...!!!


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## wdadswell (Dec 17, 2015)

Sipsy is beautiful! Sounds like she ended up in the right home!


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Jennretz you were right on target. Sipsy is the most laid back golden puppy ever, she is welcome in all the local stores and greets even children politely as well as sits on command and waits while we check out. For a 6 month old puppy it's exceptional behavior. She went from a pup that would't make eye contact to a luv bug, snuggles and lays across my lap and wakes me with a cuddles and a kiss. I had changed my focus to basic obedience skills so we could do pet therapy.

Now that she obviously feels better we decided to try the dixie cup drills again this morning and she was very engaged and caught on quickly. I also started with heel training today. My method is a little odd, I like to have them step up on a metal tin that is just large enough for both front feet. I teach heel position this way, heel is a place not an action. Anyway, she stayed engaged and with just a few tries understood she was to place both front feet on the tin. We will continue with this until I can stand beside her and we can rotate around the tin. It's a great way to teach pivots, walking in a straight line is boring while this requires her to think and focus. 

I was amazed at how happy she was to be in the game. Thanks for your encouragement, I had pretty much given up the idea of competition obedience with this girl. If I could just get her to sleep past 6am!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

There is a saying, and I have found it to be true, 'You may not get the dog you thought you 'wanted', but you do get the dog you 'need'. 

We cannot know what they are capable of until/unless we are willing to give them a chance. Regardless where they come from, who they come from, what their history may be, given a chance, the opportunity to learn, the opportunity to 'try', they can and will, with our help, be 'all that they can be'. We may need to alter our focus, our 'wants' a little, or maybe not, they may be all that we dreamed of, and so much more, we just haven't got 'there' yet, we cannot know what lies on the journey we travel with them. Love them, accept them for 'who they are', grow with them, and keep in mind it is not the 'destination', but the journey .... that counts.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Charliethree said:


> There is a saying, and I have found it to be true, 'You may not get the dog you thought you 'wanted', but you do get the dog you 'need'.


So true and you put my feelings into words so much better than I could. I'm blessed with this beautiful ... hopefully healthy puppy each day and will enjoy her being in my life with or without titles.

I'm grateful to enjoy the journey and will let the destination reveal itself in time. Thank you!


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

She is absolutely beautiful. Sadly, we learned the "hard" way, too. But we're blessed with a happy , healthy, less than compliant, girl. With lots of consistency and love she is becoming such a good girl. 




I am still cocking my head to how our girl was given a health certificate in Florida. And if they do have to be checked at 8-weeks and issued I am not sure as her date of exam for the health certificate was one week prior to us bringing her home(which puts her at 7-weeks). It's all shady. BUT I am blessed to have stumbled on this forum and know to do a way better job at finding a breeder if we choose to give her a companion when she is older.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

FL vets are not allowed to give a health cert until puppies are 8 weeks old. 
I know that sometimes they will do them on a Friday after 5 if they were born on Saturday but that's about as early as I have heard of any doing them.


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

Prism Goldens said:


> FL vets are not allowed to give a health cert until puppies are 8 weeks old.
> I know that sometimes they will do them on a Friday after 5 if they were born on Saturday but that's about as early as I have heard of any doing them.


That's what I was told by my vet, and our E-vet during her treatment. However, her certificate clearly shows that he issued it with an exam date of 5/17; this makes her 7 weeks and 2 days old. So I'm not even sure if she truly saw a vet prior to us coming home or if her vet just rubber stamped. It's been an eye opening experience for sure. Feeling ignorant for being so naive.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

I had thought how nice it would be if OK. required health certs. but guess dishonest people will find their way around the rules regardless. 

My breeder was a registered nurse and felt qualified to give the 1st set of shots. While I really don't have a problem with this as I am a retired vet tech and have been giving shots to dogs for 40 yrs. I did have a problem with her stating on her web site and in her contract that the pups had been examined by a vet. When I contacted the vet it seems they had never seen the pups, they just provided the serum. 

At a minimum the pups should be examined, eyes checked, joints rotated, ears looked at, listen to their heart, weight and just a general going over to find any obvious problems. 

I totally understand the expense of clearances but honestly when you sell the pups for $2000. and their are 8 to 12 pups and multiple litters, you can't tell me there isn't enough in the budget for a quick exam for the pups. Especially for this lady, her daughter is the vet! 

If I had been smart... hindsight  I had every right to a health certificate as the breeder is in a different state than me.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

*Hooray for Sipsy!*

The vet just called and the followup culture is clear!!! Four months of medication for so many things and finally she is getting a clean bill of health.. so excited!! 

Thanks to everyone for letting me vent, for your support and loads of information.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

*Dishonest breeder / Last update*

Well we have just passed 7 months and all is well. Sipsy has more energy and has become quite the snuggle bug. My 1st golden that actually likes to sit in my (too small) lap and sleep close at night. She has totally stolen my heart for sure. She is a stubborn little girl so might have to alter my method of training just a bit but think she will get there. Every dog should know the basics even if we don't compete, it will be necessary to do pet assisted therapy.

I received a really nice surprise recently. While my breeder Robin Coppedge/Aurora Golden's clearly cares more about the money than the puppies, the breeder Ms Coppedge got her dogs from does care about her dogs. Ms Colleen Maddox of Dogwood Springs had someone on this forum get in touch with me. The fact that she went to the trouble of reaching out just to see how Sipsy was doing was very comforting. I can't recommend my breeder but HIGHLY recommend Dogwood Springs. She has totally restored my faith in the North Texas breeders and very grateful for her concern.


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## Wolfeye (Sep 15, 2015)

It's interesting to read threads like this, and I had a similar situation with my half Golden, Bagheera. Ultimately I went through with the purchase too, and so far, he's been a wonderful dog. He hates the word stay. That word does not mean the same thing that I think it means. 

At the end of the day, for those of us who weren't happy with our breeder, hope is our keyword. All we know for sure is the present, and that's filled with a wonderful and healthy companion. Gods willing, that lasts a long, long time!


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

*current situation*

I apologize for the long post & the little green faces. I don't know how to remove them or why they are there.

As you can see this is a very old post. 15 months after this post I have been notified by the breeder that she has retained legal council and is demanding this post be removed or she will sue me. I do not have the ability to remove this post and sorry my story is upsetting.

My original post was my experience but it was obvious it was made in anger, frustration, disappointment and at a time when I was exhausted from the experience. My pup required potty breaks every 15/20 minutes for the 1st 10 weeks. She was unable to sleep through the night (we slept in 2 hr spurts) until 5 months.

In the last year and a half I have learned a great deal from the good people on this forum about golden retrieve puppies, how common UTI infections are and noticed many people post their frustration with their breeders so I’m certainly not the 1st or last one to have an opinion on their puppy buying experience.

I will do my best to provide a more clinical history of my experience. Let me start with the OFA data on the sire & dam.

Sire: Nalyn’s Whirl Wind (AKC) SR67594201 born 2/28/2011 call name Thunder
Hip and elbow clearance done on 3/8/2013 at 24 months of age
Heart by Cardiologist - normal done at 12 months 3/23/2012
Eyes tested on 5/6/2013 normal with A3istichiasis
tested on 1/22/2015 normal D1:Uveal Cyst

Dam: Dogwood Aurora’s Do You Want to Build A Snowman? call name Winter
Hip and elbow clearances done 12/21/2015 on her 2nd birthday (exactly 60 days prior to the birth of the litter)
Heart by Cardiologist - normal at 18 months 6/26/2015
Eyes tested on 7/21/2016 - posted to OFA on 10/11/2016 (puppies born 2/21/2016)
normal with E1:Cataract
updated Eye Test done 6/20/2017 normal

4/9/2016
Puppy was picked up 1 day shy of 7 weeks, this was a Sat
I received a hand written note with Duramune Max 5 label &
note that Panacur was given on 4/1/16, 4/2/16, 4/3/16, 4/9/16
This note also gave vet contact information and date of vet check 4/1/16 & fecal negative

Breeder does not provide puppy AKC reg. form but prefers to do the AKC filing herself. I've never done it this way and not my choice but reg. was completed.

It is a 4 hr drive to the breeders location. On the way home we offered water as breeder had stated that she with held water since 7am and it was after 2 at this point and we were about half way home. Shortly after this drink it was discovered the puppy had fleas and one baby tick under the front leg/armpit area. She also had bug bites, her eye was weeping and pus was on the vulva. My eyes were running and nose dripping from some sort of powder on the pup & took a Benadryl.

4/11/2016 (Monday after p/u) 
I made a call to the vet. that was noted on the paper from breeder. I was asked which breed and informed this breeder also works under 2 additional kennel names and breeds Maltese & Norfolk terriers as well as the golden. The clinic employee looked up the file and told me the GOLDEN puppies were never brought in for individual exams so could not give any information on the condition or weight of my puppy. I was told clinic provided the supplies for shots and dewormer. I had no reason to believe this was not the truth. If the clinic is giving out false information that needs to be resolved with the breeder & clinic. I posted the information I was given. 

4/14/2016 1st vet visit
fecal neg. / microchip / presented with vaginitis - instructed to keep clean and dry and told it would clear up on it’s own. Vet concerned pup had entropion (inverted eye lid) and surgery may be needed in the future / puppy presented with what appeared to be fire ant bites - instructed to give weekly medicated baths.

5/2/2016 
vet visit for 2nd distemper shot - vet out on call so receptionist gave shot. Was not able to followup up on vaginitis or perform fecal test.

5/26/2016 Changed vets as pup still had low fever, eye still draining & vulva infection not clearing up
3rd puppy shot (included Lepto) & Rabies
dewormer, lyme vaccination, antiseptic wipes for vulva
droncit inj (tape worm med)
CEFA 250 - meds for UTI
this vet agreed with entropion diagnosis but felt she would grow out of it

6/6/2016 returned for followup as medication not helping
demanded blood work and requested sterile culture for UTI diagnosis
CBC / Organ function test / urinalysis
Vet refused to do sterile culture and I was sent home
Shortly after I returned home I received a call from the vet to return and pick up additional meds for UTI
6/6/2016
Amoxicillin 250mg / Clindamycin 150mg / more antiseptic wipes
blood work also revealed high EOS count (suspect parasites) even though fecal showed neg
HRW dewormer for hook, round & whipworms (3 day application)

6/17/2016 again changed vets as all these meds were not helping and vet continued to refuse my request for sterile culture
Exam / Blood - Chem 10/CBC/Lytes / catalyst chem 10 / Lasercyte - CBC5R / fecal test - (computer vs manual float test) - positive for parasites & coccidia
Vet explained eye drainage was from inherited Distichiasis not Entropion.
Primor Tabs 600 MG / Malaket antiseptic wipes / TVMDL - culture & sensitivity / comfortis / albon for coccidia

6/27/2016 Because this clinic is 2 hrs away they mailed medication to me after results of culture. By this time I had completed the medication from the last clinic
Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole 960mg - 2 wk supply

6/30/2016 fecal exam as follow up for coccidia - negative 

7/16/2016 2nd droncit injection (tapes)

7/18/2016 additional 30 day meds for UTI
Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole 960 mg
follow up fecal exam and FINALLY parasite free

8/16/2016 Follow up exam for UTI after 6 weeks of medication
cystocentesis / TVMDL - culture & sensitivity
results confirm all clear

11/9/2016 followup / precaution only - no symptoms
CBC/mini profile - everything within normal limits / fecal - neg

5/16/2017 Rabies & distemper boosters

5/27/2017 Attended health clinic offered at Monroe, LA dog show
Received heart clearance
Failed eye clearance / Ineligible:Abnormal A3istichiasis 
IE2:Cataract / IE7:Retinal Dysplasia - Geographic or Detached Forms

6/5/2017 Spayed / Retinal Dysplasia can be passed on. I purchased this pup on limited reg. with no intention of breeding but followed Dr. advice after eye exam findings 

As you can see this pup had a very rough start in life. Was it life threatening, no. Was it emotional & financially draining, yes. I’m retired and live on social security but as you can see I did everything possible to get her healthy. 

Did I ever approach the breeder for compensation, no. Did the breeder offer a full refund with the return of the puppy on 2 occasions, yes. She made it clear this was above and beyond what was required and seeing her perspective understood she saw this as her way of resolving the problem. 

Here lies our basic dispute... I saw this as a very sick living puppy and provided months of care to resolve the problems. Relocation would not change the problem. I have a wonderful, beautiful dog that I love dearly. She is the most attentive, snuggly golden of the many I have owned. My mistake was not understanding the breeder saw this as a business transaction. I have 4 special needs grand kids (now in their 20’s) and didn’t return them either. Returning a sick puppy was never even a thought for me. Maybe this is my shortcoming, maybe a puppy purchase should be considered a business transaction but I’m just not sure I can do that.

We had all sorts of odd puppy behaviors, unable to make eye contact, had to learn how to negotiate doorways, very distant.. but realized later it was only when I was standing as she was quick to learn & willing to snuggle as long as I was sitting on the floor. It never occurred to me she couldn’t see me. Gratefully the eye condition (diagnosis 5/27/17) didn’t enlarge as the pup grew so it became easier for her to see. Long about 5 months she was finally getting well & feeling better, getting bigger and able to connect and able to make eye contact. As with most things in life, hindsight is 20/20.

The breeder has the ability to post a rebuttal but I do not have the ability to remove this post. This is my story. I have no ability to know the condition of the other 8 puppies in this litter or any other puppies she has sold over the years. Do I feel this pup was sick when I took her home, yes. Do I feel a vet should have noticed the infection/ pus on the vulva, yes. Do I want anyone else to go through all this, no. If sharing my story has helped anyone avoid problems with whoever they choose to get a puppy from… well that’s what this forum is all about, learning by sharing. These are my facts, this is my story and the truth as I know it. 

I apologize for such a long post. Thanks to everyone on the forum that provided me with emotional support, guidance and information over this last year.


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## Rambo's mom (Apr 30, 2016)

I don't post much, words don't come easy for me. But I need to let you know how much I have valued your posts over the last year and a half. I see you as an optimistic, kind hearted dog lover. I have enjoyed reading about Sipsy, and I have to admit I have been a little envious of both you and her. She is so smart, and you are so competent in your training. Your knowledge shines through. 
I see now, you and Sipsy are where you are today because of your never give up attitude. I don't know who is more fortunate, you or your sweet girl. You have set the standard for me. 

I hope this isn't coming across too corny. 

Thanks for sharing this experience in such great detail.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

So the dam's hips/elbows were done after she was bred and her eyes were done for the first time months after puppies went home?


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Not sure... sort of like the question "which came first the chicken or the egg". When I looked for clearances I didn't notice the dates. The forum helped me learn how to read them better.
I did read that having x-ray during pregnancy can be a cause for the eye condition but not sure about the information from a google search. Truth is it doesn't matter to me why she has this condition, knowing will not change the fact she has it.
I was shown a copy of eye clearances but that is not what was submitted to OFA. Again, I do not have the answers to the timeline.


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## Retriever Lover (Jan 24, 2018)

*Aurora Golden AMAZING GOLDENS AND BREEDER*

Robin is one of the sweetest breeders I have met. I researched a lot for my families golden retriever, she is so kind, so patient, and answers any and all questions I had (no matter how ridiculous).
She sent weekly pictures and checkins, gave info on vets, food, and best practices for our puppy. I felt 100% prepared with all of her help!
My dog will turn 2 in April and he is BEAUTIFUL!!
He is so loyal, gentle, playful, snuggly and kind. I have referred numerous people to Robins services who also have loved her dogs and ended up adopting puppies from her.
We get so many comments saying "That is the most beautiful retriever I have ever seen". I may be biased but i agree!
We have nothing but amazing things to say about Robin, and I am so glad we chose such an honest and kind family to choose our puppy from!
We may even be adding another puppy from one of her litters.
If you are in Texas or OK, or even all over the country you can not go wrong with a golden from Aurora Goldens!


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Retriever Lover, I am glad you're happy w your puppy - but if a breeder does all clearances and posts all clearances on OFA for verification so that the public can independently see them there, it is the best thing all the way around. No one doesn't know it all if it is all there. And of course there is the piece about behaving to others as we would want to be treated ourselves.. but it is obvious from the thread that yes, you CAN go wrong....


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Thanks Prism... just now seeing this. 

Retriever lover, I'm happy you had a healthy happy puppy... this was my goal as well. My girl is also a wonderful, snuggly & beautiful girl. Sadly she has some serious genetic eye conditions and doing my best to figure them all out. I hope your 2nd pup is as healthy as your first one. Pictures are always welcome on this forum and hope you will share.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

*Latest update*

Sorry for the long post.

Our last eye exam revealed multiple uveal cyst in both eyes. This added to the distichiasis (left eye), cataratas (both eyes), GRD geographic retinal dysplasia (left eye). All we can do is take it one eye exam at a time and love my beautiful girl. She has grown into a wonderful loving dog, clearly my heart dog. None of this is her fault and she adds happy moments to my life every single day. LOL I guess the bright side is she hasn't been sick again once the initial problems were resolved. I can only pray that anyone else that purchased a "Thunder" puppy will get their dogs eyes examined by an optometrist.

Ms Coppedge, you tried to fix this situation by replacing my puppy and recently offering a free puppy (as Sipsy is now spayed) and appreciate this was ... how did you put it? "above and beyond what your contract requires". Just an FYI, you should have refunded the purchase price two years ago when we were visiting the vet every two weeks for months... and willing to do it without being told this was the right thing to do.

Please accept you cannot fix this current situation, but you can learn from it... it happened, figure out why and fix the problems so it doesn't happen to someone else. I take full responsibility for keeping this puppy and all that comes with her. I also take full responsibility for not researching both lines well enough to know that all these problems run deep in both lines. I also accept responsibility for not realizing the dates on the hip/elbow clearance of the dam. Clearly this was a poor breeding choice & bad timing. How my pup is the only one with health and eye issues is beyond me... it's like winning the Lotto!

Last year when we failed the first eye exam You asked me what I wanted as you were clearly frustrated. BTW a little moral support would have been far better than threats. Anyway, it took me a while to figure this out and finally ready to respond

I want a breeder to be so proud of their kennels that they invite people to see them.
I want a breeder to happily welcome people into their home when they come to get their puppy
I want a breeder to show where the puppies are raised and explain their puppy raising process
I want a breeder willing to talk about the various personalities of each puppy they are choosing from
I want a breeder with puppies that show interest in people
I want a breeder to offer puppy registration forms when I purchase a puppy 
I want a breeder with healthy puppies vs dehydrated so you can't see the problems
I want a breeder to get health certificates from their vet for each and every puppy
Every puppy that crosses state lines is required by law to have one, at least it used to be a law.
I want a breeder to have current, filed OFA clearances on every breeding dog prior to breeding
I want a breeder that is trying to improve the breed by choosing the best sire for their bitches
example: go outside their own dogs to choose a sire. If a bitch has fair hips don't choose a sire that also has fair hips just because he's convenient
I want a breeder that does something with their dogs besides produce puppies
I want a breeder that is proud to post accomplishments their dogs achieve
I want a breeder that is personally active in some sort of venue with their dogs
I want a breeder to have a website with a section for all the different breeds they produce so it doesn't look like they are hiding something by having multiple websites, multiple kennel names
I want a breeder to have a USDA license posted if they are required to have one
I want a breeder to be so proud of their breeding programs that their website shows pictures of all their current dogs with links to current k9data
I want a breeder to post their breeding schedule so it's easy to see who they plan to breed and dates when pups are expected
I want a breeder that has a test breeding on k9data when they decide who is going to be bred
I want a breeder that doesn't need to respond defensively or try and accuse or belittle the buyer when there is a problem 
I want a breeder who will respond truthfully and like an adult to provide guidance after the puppy goes home
I want a breeder that is sincerely interested in the puppy for the life of the puppy, all the puppies

Basically I want a breeder to put the breeds before the pocket book. This is not a mythical creature, they are out there and it was my job to find one.


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