# Stacking



## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

Noob question - how does someone know if they're stacking at the correct angles? Aside from looking at the mirror, how do I know if I'm correct?

*editing question - how do I know if I'm stacking Max correctly? I'm kinda not trying to stack myself!!!!


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## sameli102 (Aug 23, 2009)

:--big_grin:I don't know but you KILL ME!!!!! LOL


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## sameli102 (Aug 23, 2009)

If you were stacking yourself I could have helped.........but the dog IDK


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## sameli102 (Aug 23, 2009)

Actually there is a very good book called The Puppy Puzzle that will help. I do know that you want the front legs to not be forward, they should be straight up and down and with the rear legs the toes of the hind foot should be in line with end of the hip bone but I can't really explain it like many others on here can.
I think you will also like the booklet A Study of The Golden Retriever by Marica Schlehr.


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## diana_D (Jan 27, 2008)

try to see if you can get Max to stay still first. Free stack him and evaluate his flaws, this is the starting point. 

Front paws should be well under body. With hind legs you might want hocks to fall perpendicular to the ground (so that you don't over stretch him)


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

Cute rebound! Although so many times, I feel like I'm stacking myself too when I'm stacking Mac--in handling class, I've been told that at times, I look as if I'm "praying" when I'm kneeling down--I must have a look on my face as if I'm asking the Almighty for help from above.

The short answer to your question is that you know you are stacking Max correctly when Max best meets the golden retriever standard.

The long answer is that anything regarding conformation starts with (IMHO) the golden retriever standard and that each owner or owner/handler, if they want to succeed in conformation, must develop an eye regarding their interpretation of the standard and how best their golden retriever meets it. With the stack, especially the hand stack, where so many faults can be hidden, the handler has a chance to determine what can be enhanced, and what features, that are no so strong, can be minimized to a degree.

I don't know if this helps or not; attending conformation classes certainly are a major help.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

Sue gave me some pointers and I want to have some progress for the next time I see her. I don't want to show up like a complete idiot. Max is getting a lot livelier by the instant and he doesn't sit still as well as he did for her....I want to show some progress and not falling backwards before I bug her...

I wonder if the book is in Amazon....

Hey - I just thought of something....I wonder if there are visual how-to resources on youtube....


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

oh yes there is a conformation match that I'll be attending....


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

diana_D said:


> try to see if you can get Max to stay still first. Free stack him and evaluate his flaws, this is the starting point.
> 
> Front paws should be well under body. With hind legs you might want hocks to fall perpendicular to the ground (so that you don't over stretch him)


Sue showed me all the lines. I should have recorded everything she said. Poor Max is probably getting tired of my hands all over his hoosits with me trying to get his rear end to come up. Plus holding his tail and his head.

What is that Hindu goddess or god who has all those arms?????


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

I see Max is only 2 months old--again, I don't know if there are any conformation classes by you, but at this stage of the game, IMHO, you have 3 goals:

1. Teach Max that being a show dog is going to be fun! How do you do that? In a conformation class setting, Max can be around other student dogs, be walked around the class setting, be played with, be given bait, and be given the impression that to be taken to a dog show setting is one of the most wonderful things in the whole world.

2. Teach Max to stack/stand four square and hold the position; he is only 2 months old so he's only going to hold his position for maybe one second to start--give bait; two seconds--give treat; three--give treat. then stop. don't over do. Give a command for this. I use "stack" for Mac. Lots of praise--use the term "break" or "done" or some other type of indication to say that Max can move. He's just a puppy--don't expect perfection at this point.

3. Get Max used to walking on a lead/gaiting--call his name "pup pup pup" anything to get him up and happy.

Don't sweat it at this age--too many people get crazy and then they get a ring sour pup at 12 months old, or one that doesn't like the show ring but is gorgeous, and they wonder what have they done? They put too much pressure on their dog--they didn't make conformation fun. JMHO.


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## diana_D (Jan 27, 2008)

that would be Durga 

He needs to get used to being touched, teeth checked, not just by you, but also other people. Judges will go over him so it's a great start for him  

Make it sound like it's playtime, praise him even if he stays still for a second. Bait him like you would do in the ring and only give the treat to him when he is staying still. Do not assume he will free stack at the beginning, he will not  

Oh and don't teach him sit for now...you will thank yourself later


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

All point well taken....

especially on the last point...I've seen a lot of dogs turn off sheep because they were pushed too hard too soon simply because their owners wanted to get into Open or Nursery. They ruined their dogs and their dogs became so paranoid and schizoid that they wouldn't even *look* at stock, much less work them.

One thing I do know....a dog in a ring needs to show off himself as being happy, knowing he's something special. I've seen Westminster and Crufts enough times to know at least that!!!!

Thanks for he reality check...


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

LOL!!! no sit? uh oh....oooops....


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## diana_D (Jan 27, 2008)

it is ok, but rather than sit reinforce stacking while he begs for instance. It took me a while to fix the "sit" command I taught her first  Next show puppy won't know what "sit" is 

And even now, 2 years later I still see her sitting once in a while during show ring training, but it can be because she interprets sometimes my hand with bait as a sit sign command. I need to be very careful with this in the ring


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

Gotcha. We've only had short training sessions these four days...I've been mainly concentrating on potty training and recalls.


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## eeneymeanymineymo (Oct 5, 2009)

***K I S S ***
Keep It Short Sweetie!!

All great suggestions so far! 

Practice only a few minutes a day stacking, moving on lead and free baiting. Keep it short & sweet - start out positive and end it positively! Make it fun for your pup and use a voice that is happy and pleasing. 

Socialization is your goal right now with getting him out & touched by other people, feeling comfortable around other dogs, people and situations. When he is old enough to attend handling classes, don't expect perfection. Keep it fun & happy for your pup.....do not push him or you may ruin him! 

Lots of books to read, links on Youtube, attend dog shows and let your breeder guide you! Enter fun matches for practice.

Have fun & enjoy your puppy!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

diana_D said:


> Oh and don't teach him sit for now...you will thank yourself later


On the other hand, if you think there's any chance you will want to compete in obedience later I would go ahead and teach him both stack and sit from a young age so he can learn to differentiate when to do each. I can't tell you how many people I've met that get frustrated with their show dogs in obedience because they always want to stand.

Remember that when it's a stand/stack, you can always give a signal or command for what you want the dog to do in both conformation and obedience. While in obedience the dog has to sit automatically everytime you stop unless you signal for him to do otherwise. A dog is a lot more likely to not sit when he's supposed to than sit when he's been told to stand.


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

My handler encourages me to participate in all sorts of venues with Mac, including obedience--it helps build confidence and gives exposure to a variety of places/people/commands. She has no problem with me teaching sit and stand as commands.

She feels that if a dog sits in the show ring it is not the end of the world and that by holding bait, adjusting the lead, etc. the dog will stand.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

OK, what exactly does this mean? I hate to sound stupid....I mean in terms of actual inches...
"Length from breastbone to point of buttocks slightly greater than height at withers in ratio of 12:11."


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## eeneymeanymineymo (Oct 5, 2009)

The dog should be slightly longer in body than in height (at the withers).


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

oh, yah, thank you...but the ratio is what's got me confused...12:11...

I'm reading that as maybe 25 length to 24 height, for example?


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## eeneymeanymineymo (Oct 5, 2009)

Lilliam said:


> oh, yah, thank you...but the ratio is what's got me confused...12:11...
> 
> I'm reading that as maybe 25 length to 24 height, for example?


yes.....or 24 inches long and 23 inches tall as another example.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Lilliam said:


> oh, yah, thank you...but the ratio is what's got me confused...12:11...
> 
> I'm reading that as maybe 25 length to 24 height, for example?


Yes, but 25:24 is not exactly 12:11, but 24:22 or 25:22.9 is. I take it just as an approximation--goldens are not supposed to be built like a square, but they are't long rectangles either....

I actually read a really good book called Solving the Mysteries of Breed Type and it took different dog breed silhouettes and put them on a box grid so you more easily evaluate height to length. Some breeds are more square, but others like dachsunds have a longer body.


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