# My golden is a moron



## spruce (Mar 13, 2008)

there's some great trainers here that will have good advice, but go to class. I have a smart young dog, I am the moron - class taught me


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

My obedience trainer always said it wasn't the dogs who needed training, it was the owners. Sometimes we just need help in figuring out the best way to communicate with our dogs. Each dog is different, and what works with one may not work with another one. Hopefully some of the forum's experienced trainers will offer you some helpful suggestions. 

Did your golden come from an abusive background?


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## Bogey's Mom (Dec 23, 2008)

He can probably sense your frustration and knows he isn't living up to what you want. Goldens are very sensitive to our emotions, and if he is getting negative vibes from you that could be why he is so timid. Try positive training techniques and lots and lots of praise. I think you'll be surprised at how quickly he responds.


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## kgiff (Jul 21, 2008)

There are a lot of people here will have a ton of great advice. 

It maybe worth hiring a trainer to work with you for a few sessions to get the issues you'd need to have taken care of to get him to a class under control (being put on leash and tearing your arm off getting into a car). Yes classes are once a week for an hour, but you need to practice what you're learning at home all week to get some value out of it.

I don't think he sounds hopeless, just that you need some new creative ways of problem solving and working on his issues (which I'm sure everyone here will have some great advice). 

Maybe some puppy recall games to help get him to come more enthusiastically when being called. And teaching him to he need to sit to have his leash put on (and taken off).


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## Bogart'sMom (Sep 16, 2005)

What does the dog's day look like? He sounds like he is understimulated. A 2 year old golden is still very much a puppy. They don't mellow out until 3 to 4 years old. Then dog classes are a plus so they know how to behave themselfs. They need calm, fair, firm leadership. What do you use to walk your dog? What kind of collar? Training classes yes are just an hour a week but you have homework that takes time every day so they learn the new Behavior. Goldens don't come trained automaticly. They are awesome in trying to please you. Most goldens are also very sensitive to harsh corrections and can become fearful. If he likes to play ball, take him out in the yard or Baseball field that is fenced in and let him rip, then you do leash walks to teach him walking nicely. He needs to get rid of the bounce first. How was his Mom? Was she a Nut meaning high energy, was she mellow? I'm just wondering if it's also a little genetics playing in there. But I bet your boy needs more playtime, running and mental stimulation (obedience, toys he has to figure out, how about a tricks class? or clickertraining?)
All the best,


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

Cowboy up and go do some basic obedience. An experienced trainer can most likely get to the bottom of the timidness issue very quickly.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Nitzanah said:


> I need some help. I have a 2 yr golden male and his behavior is terrible. He's very intelligent. I've taught him to run on a treadmill and all basic commands except walking on a leash.
> 
> The problem I have is he is SO timid and afraid of me and my husband. If I tell him to come, he kinda slinks over to me like I'm going to beat him and spins in circles. If my husband calls him he comes the same way but sometimes urinates all over the floor. I can't take him for walks because he lunges at people for attention and at times urinates on them as well. If I bring out the leash he spins in circles and gets SO riled up I end up having to cancel the outing with him all together. I can't put him in training because 1, i don't think 1 hour a week would help and 2, he is impossible to get into the vehicles without pulling my arm off.
> 
> I can fix the leash thing and the outing thing, I know how. What I can't fix or figure out is the timid issue. Every time I start to work with him he gets so timid and I end up getting frustrated and end up telling him to go to his place. It's a circle that I can't seem to break....


 
My guess is that your frustration is causing his timidity. I would highly recommend a class - you need the training as much as he does, and the social situation would be very beneficial for him.


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## sophiesadiehannah's mom (Feb 11, 2007)

i hope you were just joking when you called your dog a moran, that to me is so insensitive. your dog has some problems and a good trainer could probably help you out, i have had timid fosters, and lots of love and understanding can go a long way.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I agree with everyone else and do the classes. You both can learn some new training methods and he will get some socialization. Also try a harness or gentle leader, they help with the pulling. Use positive re-enforcement when training and find some great treats that he really loves. Things like little cut up pieces of hot dog, they will help in getting him in and out of the car. 
It sounds like he is picking up on your frustrations. And please dont call him a moron because he will pick up on the tone and make him more skittish. You may think he cant understand what you call him but that tone goes al ong way on how he reacts. Good luck!!


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

He kind of sounds like he was abused when he was younger, or somehow treated in a way to make him fear humans. How old was he when you adopted him? A dog class is definitely going to help you out. Yes, it's only an hour a week, but the time in between classes you take what you learned in the last class and practice it every single day. Your dog's confidence needs to be built up, and teaching him new skills will really help.

The peeing is probably submissive peeing. My puppy does it too. I don't like it, but she's an incredibly submissive dog, and there's not much I can do about it. I just remind myself that it's so much better having a submissive dog than an aggressive one.  Good luck with your dog! He is NOT a moron, just a little confused right now.


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## Avery'sDad (Jan 7, 2009)

Yeah, echoing what everyone else is saying - get some basic obedience training. The classes may be one hour a week, but the classes aren't for your dog, they're for you. Take home what you learn and work on it all week.

I have a feeling once your pup gets into working mode, he'll be easy peasy to train. Really sounds like he's desperate to please.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Well, there's quite a chorus of assenting voices so far, but I'll throw in my $0.02 that you're describing the behavior of a dog who is confused and afraid, not one that's stupid or willful. However he got that way is immaterial right now; passing judgment would be entirely unhelpful. 

What will help, though, is eliminating harsh voices and physical punishments from his training. A dog who pees when he sees his owner is a dog who is desperate to please but confused as to how to do so appropriately. It is completely different from a housebreaking problem; if he is punished for his urination in these submissive situations, he'll simply pee more the next time. When a submissive urinator becomes fearful to boot, it becomes a difficult habit to break.

You need to channel that desire to please into more appropriate behaviors. A class would be great, as everyone suggests, as would any kind of training that religiously avoids any kind of negative stimuli. An unconfident dog needs opportunities to learn how to do behaviors that please. Even simple tricks can help because he can do them and reap a reward and learn that there are ways to bring about the outcomes he wants.


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## Buppy Jake (Mar 30, 2009)

What great advice..I am having the same problems with Jake..he was a rescue that was left at a friends farm and was piddling at first when i would approach him but it stopped for awhile and he has begun to do it again. I will be contacting my local trainer to see what we can do.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Buppy Jake said:


> What great advice..I am having the same problems with Jake..he was a rescue that was left at a friends farm and was piddling at first when i would approach him but it stopped for awhile and he has begun to do it again. I will be contacting my local trainer to see what we can do.


One thing that's often suggested in training books is to let the dog win little games of tug, to allow him on the couch, or to let him do things that are more "dominant." I regard dominance theory with extreme skepticism, but it does seem like those little things might help. I do however, think that confidence and dominance aren't the same thing in dogs, and confidence is the real quality you want to nurture in a nervous, freaked out dog.

That's why I'm a big fan of calm voices and positive training in general and especially for unconfident or "submissive" dogs. A dog really does gain confidence when he knows he has an arsenal of behaviors that let him express his desire to please. Ever see a Golden sitting with his head up, making eye contact with his human and clearly trying to sit just as well as he possibly can? That's a dog that knows he can connect with his human by being good. He trusts that his actions will result in a positive reaction from his human, and he is not governed by a fear of screwing up or getting in trouble. You can get that attitude from both "dominant" and "submissive" dogs, so it's not about pack theory. That's the kind of confidence building I'm talking about.

There are great photos and discussion about this confident, connected attitude in this thread.


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## Nitzanah (Mar 30, 2009)

I've had my golden since he was about 8 weeks. He was never abused but his stupid behaviors got him yelled at on more than one occasion. I'm not looking for judgment of how I take care of my dog or what I should have done. I don't have time to go to a class right now so any other suggestions, like something I can do from home would be more helpful.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I'm sorry, but you are dealing with puppy behavior, not stupidity. If you have no time to put into him or cannot commit to a class, which would benefit both of you, I might seriously consider rehoming him. The impression you give is that you don't particularly like him.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I would go back and read some of the posts again. There have been alot of suggestions on what to do like not yelling, use calm voices and let the dog win at tug of war are a few. There are videos you can buy online or see at some of the training places. Check this website http://www.companionsforlife.net/ it might have some information that you can use and it is free.


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## Bogey's Mom (Dec 23, 2008)

I'm sorry to sound harsh, but I completely agree with Pointgold. Puppies are a lot of work. If you don't have time to put in the work that he needs to become a well-behaved adult, perhaps he's not the right fit in your home. Yelling at him is never going to change his behavior - our dogs don't use words. All he hears is a nasty tone without a proper correction. How is he supposed to learn? 

Please consider more positive training methods with him in the future. There are books you could buy and read at your leisure or videos you could watch. Is your family supportive in your efforts to train him? Where do you live? Maybe someone on the forum is nearby and could help you one afternoon.


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## Heidi36oh (Feb 27, 2007)

I totally agree with everyone, yelling don't get you anywhere!


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## sophiesadiehannah's mom (Feb 11, 2007)

if you cannot take the time to go to training classes, see if you can get private lessons, i had a trainer come to my house at 7:30pm for some training tips and they were helpful suggestions. if you consider your pup still a moron, please consider rehoming and when if in your life you are not busy, busy,busy, then think about getting a pup when you can devout time and calmness with training. i have 6 dogs at my house right now and work, i am no saint, but i never yell at them.


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## WLR (May 11, 2008)

Nitzanah said:


> I've had my golden since he was about 8 weeks. He was never abused but his stupid behaviors got him yelled at on more than one occasion. I'm not looking for judgment of how I take care of my dog or what I should have done. I don't have time to go to a class right now so any other suggestions, like something I can do from home would be more helpful.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dude, 
Yelling at the poor thing has in itself probably done more to frighten him than anything else and that, in my book is akin to abuse. There is NO reason your dog should fear you. Describing your pup as stupid and a moron tells me, the way I interpert it, is you dont like your pup.
IF that is the case, do both yourselves a favor and bring the poor thing back to the breeder or a rescue group so it can have a loving companion and not a tyrant.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. 
You are his life, his love, his leader. 
He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. 
You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


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## Romeo1 (Apr 19, 2008)

Nitzanah said:


> I've had my golden since he was about 8 weeks. He was never abused but his stupid behaviors got him yelled at on more than one occasion. I'm not looking for judgment of how I take care of my dog or what I should have done. I don't have time to go to a class right now so any other suggestions, *like something I can do from home would be more helpful.*


Love the dog. 

Your dog should not fear you. He should trust you more than anything else in the world. If you can't go to a class, research info online about dog behavior and establishing yourself as a pack leader. You have got to build trust first and that only happens with positive reinforcement.


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## Bob-N-Tash (Feb 24, 2008)

There is no 'instant cure'. 

You are asking for advice... and it seems that training is in order. 

You are right... sending the dog for 1 hour a week won't do any good unless you are willing to learn and implement the techniques that a trainer can teach you. People mistakenly think that the training is for the dog. Training is really for the owner.... helping you to understand how to better handle your dog. 

The response of some of the forum members may seem a little harsh. But they are being honest and direct with you.

You said it yourself, "It's a circle that I can't seem to break...." And until you can take the time to learn a different approach you will continue to find yourself running in circles.


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## z&mom (Oct 7, 2006)

Hey, I am sorry you are having a very challenging time with your Golden. If I've understood your post correctly, none of the behaviors you have described seem like a challenge of authority or agression. He is indeed a very submissive dog but has not learned the acceptable behavior around people. 

I agree with the positive training method. Use a lot of praises and treats to reinforce any good behavior you want him to have. As for the undesirable behaviors (such as peeing in submissive), you will need to ignore that. I know it is totally frustrating that you need to be cleaning up the mess he makes, but try to take a deep breathe and do it quietly. If he senses any of your negative energy, he will feel that he needs to "submit" even more, thus pee more. I have also read somewhere that whenever you approach the dog with submissive peeing problem, do not make a fuss, quietly approach with NO eye contact, stay near him quietly for a while, then greet him at his level (kneel down). This way he will not feel that you are way superior and that he needs to do everything (peeing) to show you that he submits to you.

He definitely needs to learn to walk on lead, that way you can teach him not to lunge at people. Try putting the collar on him when he is calm e.g. while resting. Do not make a big fuss like "lets go for a walk". Once it is on him, leave it on him for a while. Once he is used to that, you can take out the leash and snap it on. Do this swiftly, and calmly. As long as he remains calms, praise and treat. If he starts to spin around, walk away quietly, don't ever try to remove the lead. This way, by your departure, he may learn to understand that the behavior (spinning) is undesirable cos it is not getting him anywhere. 

With lots of love, patience and peserverance, and the right method that works for your dog, you will see improvements in no time. Take care, and please hang in there. You are not alone. Many people here have wealth of knowledge and experience. All the best.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

> I've had my golden since he was about 8 weeks. He was never abused but his stupid behaviors got him yelled at on more than one occasion. I'm not looking for judgment of how I take care of my dog or what I should have done. I don't have time to go to a class right now so any other suggestions, like something I can do from home would be more helpful.


"Stupid behaviors got him yelled at" "I don't have time" 

He's petrified of you. That's why he acts like that. Perhaps you need to reconsider your methods if you'd like to have success.

And, honestly...I'm wondering if this is a real post, or someone who's just trolling.


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## kjarv24 (Nov 7, 2008)

I agree with the others about their advice.
Your dog isn't a moron, How he acts is almost certainly how his owner has taught him/socialized him..etc... There are some dogs with problems, but from what you have said sounds like something you have done "Like yelling" & your Golden has become very confused at this point.
A class would be 100% Beneficial to your dog, He need first to be loved and nutured by you along with proper training and positive discipline. He also needs some POSITIVE Socialization with Humans, & with other dogs...
Goldens are so so eager to please their masters, for your dog to urinate when his owners is around him is just sad ...

I could never imagine yelling at my Jake, Yes there are times when i become a little frustrated after a very long day But I always keep my cool. 
My Advice to you about yelling at him is, if you are getting to frustrated with behaviors then step out and take a breather. I know life can get frustrating but you are just harming your dog taking it out on him & you are only helping cause the problem rather than trying to fix it. Put yourself in his shoes..He has no idea what he has done so wrong, these aren't stupid behaviors...Your own dog is afraid of you & needs your help.
My Golden always gets a FIRM no with things, and redirected to the RIGHT behavior.
All that Yelling, Hitting, or any other form of negative punishment that would only benefit a humans frustrations at that moment..Would Thoroughly confuse a dog and if it kept up then I can imagine it would get to the point where the dog is ALWAYS fearful, and always tries to please with no avail...& not sure what to do.
Sounds like to me you are wanting a quick fix, but sorry there is NO quick fix to your dogs Behaviors. It's going to be a lot of hard work on your part especially. If you aren't up to it there is golden rescues that would love to have him, work with him & find him a GREAT home.


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## kjarv24 (Nov 7, 2008)

Ardeagold - I was wondering the same thing with their first post "troll?"...


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## Celeigh (Nov 29, 2007)

Ardeagold said:


> "Stupid behaviors got him yelled at" "I don't have time"
> 
> *He's petrified of you. That's why he acts like that.* Perhaps you need to reconsider your methods if you'd like to have success.


I wholeheartedly agree. Even the most stubborn of goldens still has a gentle soul - to yell at them or repeatedly speak harshly to them to the point where they cower in front of you and submissively urinate is a sign that you have gone too far. I do hope you listen to what others have to say here on the subject and don't just blow us off. There is a problem here and the dog deserves change - either in your behavior or his home.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

> Ardeagold - I was wondering the same thing with their first post "troll?"...


I really think so. No person goes onto a DOG site, where it's obvious that people love and care deeply for their dogs (and all other dogs) and says things like that without the express purpose of stirring the pot for the *fun* of it.

And, if it's NOT a troll, it's someone who's not at all concerned about his dog, or what we have to offer.

So I'm not playing in this thread anymore.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

Yeah, I think so too. I remember Comet used to be able to pick up on when I was upset about something. He would just go across the room and lie down, and keep an eye on me. I have no idea how he picked up on it.

Just as easily, when I had calmed down or whatever, he would get up, come back across the room, and hop up on the couch with me.

He just knew...

Dakota didn't care LOL He just kept doing whatever he was doing, which was usually sleeping 



Pointgold said:


> My guess is that your frustration is causing his timidity. I would highly recommend a class - you need the training as much as he does, and the social situation would be very beneficial for him.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

If the OP is real, I feel very sorry for the dog.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I can only imagine if I were to come here and call one of my dogs stupid and a moron. :no:


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Without casting further aspersions on the OP, it's pretty common for people to operate under the assumption that yelling at a dog or otherwise providing aversive leadership is the normal, effective way to train. They think leadership is about forcing compliance, and they don't try to learn to "speak dog" because they don't know it's possible.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

tippykayak said:


> Without casting further aspersions on the OP, it's pretty common for people to operate under the assumption that yelling at a dog or otherwise providing aversive leadership is the normal, effective way to train. They think leadership is about forcing compliance, and they don't try to learn to "speak dog" because they don't know it's possible.


 
I'll give you that, but I have a difficult time with the fact that in this person's eyes the dog was stupid (from the start) and is now a moron. A person who is capable of finding the GRF and asking for advice is certainly capable of having done even a teeny tiny bit of research into basic puppy care and training.


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## buckeyegoldenmom (Oct 5, 2008)

Ok...One thing you can do now at home. Make coming to you FUN! Never call him to come to you to punish him or make him do something he doesn't want to. 

My puppy and I play the "find me" game. I hide, very easy to find me at first and call him in an excited voice. I'll say "Murphy come find me!!!!!" He comes running because I give him a handful of tiny treats or kibble when he gets to me. A "Jackpot!" Now even in the yard, (when he is maybe digging a hole or trying to get tree branch) he will come running to get that possibility of a treat.

Good luck to you.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> I'll give you that, but I have a difficult time with the fact that in this person's eyes the dog was stupid (from the start) and is now a moron. A person who is capable of finding the GRF and asking for advice is certainly capable of having done even a teeny tiny bit of research into basic puppy care and training.


I'm so with you. It's not that the situation doesn't frustrate me, just that dressing him or her down is a waste of time. Of course the dog isn't stupid, and calling a GR stupid says much more about the human than about the dog. The initial description makes it clear that it's a confused dog that's been frightened and intimidated by a destructive training philosophy. Unfortunately, those methods are widespread and seen as common sense by many people.

I don't care about expressing my own frustration with the OP, no matter how deeply I feel it. What I care about is giving the particular dog the best possible shot at a better life. So my concern is to avoid alienating the OP and to try to offer whatever advice I think has any shot of getting through.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

tippykayak said:


> I'm so with you. It's not that the situation doesn't frustrate me, just that dressing him or her down is a waste of time. Of course the dog isn't stupid, and calling a GR stupid says much more about the human than about the dog. The initial description makes it clear that it's a confused dog that's been frightened and intimidated by a destructive training philosophy. Unfortunately, those methods are widespread and seen as common sense by many people.
> 
> I don't care about expressing my own frustration with the OP, no matter how deeply I feel it. What I care about is giving the particular dog the best possible shot at a better life. So my concern is to avoid alienating the OP and to try to offer whatever advice I think has any shot of getting through.


You're a better man than me, Brian. The OP (if in fact not a troll as suggested) has been offered good advice on many fronts and came back with a less than gracious attitude demanding something that can be done at home NOW. Add that to what I fear is a environment for the dog that is at best cold and at worst bordering on abusive, all I can think about is the poor dog going to another home where he can be rehabilitated and know that there is such a thing as kindness.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> You're a better man than me, Brian. The OP (if in fact not a troll as suggested) has been offered good advice on many fronts and came back with a less than gracious attitude demanding something that can be done at home NOW. Add that to what I fear is a environment for the dog that is at best cold and at worst bordering on abusive, all I can think about is the poor dog going to another home where he can be rehabilitated and know that there is such a thing as kindness.


I'm hardly the better man, but otherwise I agree. If the owner is unwilling to adapt at all to contemporary, researched, ethical, proven methods, then another home would be best. Obviously the OP is very unhappy to have shaped a dog into such poor habits, so I was hoping there might be some chance of change. I know there's certainly no chance if the OP gets flamed at all (not that you've done that), so I choose not to respond ungraciously to the ungraciousness, no matter how tempted I may be.


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## Tinsley (Nov 11, 2008)

Don't yell, ever. Lower your tone, they wont respond to shouting.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

I'm glad someone came out and said it. And other things that have been posted... My initial post was not very nice and I erased it and started over after re-reading what I had wrote 



Pointgold said:


> I'll give you that, but I have a difficult time with the fact that in this person's eyes the dog was stupid (from the start) and is now a moron. A person who is capable of finding the GRF and asking for advice is certainly capable of having done even a teeny tiny bit of research into basic puppy care and training.


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## ReleaseTheHounds (Feb 12, 2009)

Not everyone is a troll. SOme people are just.. stupid and moronic.


In other news, I finally got my retard goldfish to swim the way I want. I had to punch him in the gills a few times but he's finally getting it.

Stupid fish.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

ReleaseTheHounds said:


> Not everyone is a troll. SOme people are just.. stupid and moronic.
> 
> 
> In other news, I finally got my retard goldfish to swim the way I want. I had to punch him in the gills a few times but he's finally getting it.
> ...


I laughed. Your fish sounds REALLY dumb.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Not MINE - he's brilliant! He is extremely well bred, has all of his clearances, and is multi-purpose.


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## BIGDAWG (Sep 28, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> Not MINE - he's brilliant! He is extremely well bred, has all of his clearances, and is multi-purpose.



How in the world did you train it to do the weave poles???:--big_grin:


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

BIGDAWG said:


> How in the world did you train it to do the weave poles???:--big_grin:


Well, you start clicker training with just two poles at a time, and you click and treat when the fish goes through them at all. Then you work up to three poles, at angles so they encourage him to through on the proper side of each. At that point, some Goldfish really take to the exercise and you go from there.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

This thread has gotten too funny.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

This thread makes me very sad whenever I read the title.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Jackson'sMom said:


> This thread makes me very sad whenever I read the title.


Me, too. 

But it should make you feel better to know that my goldfish is well cared for, saved from a certain fate of being fed to an Oscar.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Jackson'sMom said:


> This thread makes me very sad whenever I read the title.


I just try and hope that the poster is indeed a troll.


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## BIGDAWG (Sep 28, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> Me, too.
> 
> But it should make you feel better to know that my goldfish is well cared for, saved from a certain fate of being fed to an Oscar.



And of course, your fish is a "GOLDEN":


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

I don't know whats scarier. The fact that your Fish can do this, or the fact that you had graphics of it ready to go 



BIGDAWG said:


> How in the world did you train it to do the weave poles???:--big_grin:


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

I keep seeing this thread come up and it's a shame the OP regards their puppy as a moron. I don't like to see that word used, but to each his own.

The other sad thing is there has been a lot of good suggestions on here for him/her on these last few pages but the OP hasn't been on since April 7. Hopefully the OP is reading as a guest and absorbing the suggestions, without posting back. I hate to see new members come on here for help, and take the posts to heart or the wrong way and the threads turn nasty and the member leaves all bent out of shape.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

AndyFarmer said:


> I keep seeing this thread come up and it's a shame the OP regards their puppy as a moron. I don't like to see that word used, but to each his own.
> 
> The other sad thing is there has been a lot of good suggestions on here for him/her on these last few pages but the OP hasn't been on since April 7. Hopefully the OP is reading as a guest and absorbing the suggestions, without posting back. I hate to see new members come on here for help, and take the posts to heart or the wrong way and the threads turn nasty and the member leaves all bent out of shape.


He did make one post in response, but it wasn't particularly uplifting.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

BIGDAWG said:


> And of course, your fish is a "GOLDEN":


And I would like it noted that this particular fish is on the darker side of the standard. I've no predjudice when it comes to allowable colors.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

NuttinButGoldens said:


> I don't know whats scarier. The fact that your Fish can do this, or the fact that you had graphics of it ready to go


 
As you all know, I am horrible about taking photos, so I need to geve credit where credit is due - the pics were taken by my OTHER goldfish.


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## ReleaseTheHounds (Feb 12, 2009)

Haha. All joking aside though, does anyone know where I can get a rare English Cream goldfish?


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

ReleaseTheHounds said:


> Haha. All joking aside though, does anyone know where I can get a rare English Cream goldfish?


 
OH here we go!!!! ROFL!!!!!!


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

ReleaseTheHounds said:


> Haha. All joking aside though, does anyone know where I can get a rare English Cream goldfish?



They sell them at a petstore near me... they even come with papers


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

ReleaseTheHounds said:


> Haha. All joking aside though, does anyone know where I can get a rare English Cream goldfish?


 
Although I have avoided the perception of selling any puppies here on the forum, I will say that my brilliant studfish (the one in the photos) will be bred to my lovely bitchfish. We should have 60% American and 50% rare English creams. (The 50% English creams will be calmer) Here she is:


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## ReleaseTheHounds (Feb 12, 2009)

I heard that the English Creams have reverse gills that allow the fish to live for small periods outside of the water.

Please confirm


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## Celeigh (Nov 29, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> We should have 60% American and 50% rare English creams. (The 50% English creams will be calmer)


Don't forget they are also 50% more expensive!


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

I love those fish pictures. Those are the coolest. I do prefer the hyper gold colored one though.


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

Oh you novices!
Meet my Doodle-fish


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

LOL where do you guys find these pictures!?


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## BIGDAWG (Sep 28, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> Although I have avoided the perception of selling any puppies here on the forum, I will say that my brilliant studfish (the one in the photos) will be bred to my lovely bitchfish. We should have 60% American and 50% rare English creams. (The 50% English creams will be calmer) Here she is:




60% + 50% = 110%. Mmmm, 110% fish, sounds like a great idea on Good Friday!


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

Mb--- rofl!!!!


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

moverking said:


> Oh you novices!
> Meet my Doodle-fish
> 
> 
> ...


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Y'all are making Daisy hungry 

Now I want a doodle fish too :


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> Now I want a doodle fish too :


you are so needy


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

BIGDAWG said:


> 60% + 50% = 110%. Mmmm, 110% fish, sounds like a great idea on Good Friday!


Well, the Americans _are _superior. More bang for the buck from the little red fish. Besides, all us breeders know that the stud is blamed for _every_thing.


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> Now I want a doodle fish too :


EEEEEEKKKK You cannot have a doodle-fish with that, that, KILLER dog of yours....my babies wouldn't be safe :curtain:


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I do like the doodle fish. It's so cute! I've been doing a lot of research, and given the popularity of designer pets, what do you think of this: I think Bambifish would do well, no? 









(If they don't work out so well as pets, I can market them to the hunting/fishing crowd...)


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

And, of course for those who prefer the "tough" breeds:


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## Bob-N-Tash (Feb 24, 2008)

PG... I heard a rumor your bird dog breeding program didn't go as well as anticipated. But I thought that these two would have been highly marketable.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Bob-N-Tash said:


> PG... I heard a rumor your bird dog breeding program didn't go as well as anticipated. But I thought that these two would have been highly marketable.


 


OOOOH! I LIKE! The first one, though, wouldn't do well in our 9 month long winters, I fear. 

The SECOND one though - CHA CHING!!!!!!!! It combines the Apartment Sized Comfort Retriever qualities that are so popular, with the loveliness of a songbird. I LOVE LOVE LOVE thi$!


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

These pictures are amazing.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

moverking said:


> EEEEEEKKKK You cannot have a doodle-fish with that, that, KILLER dog of yours....my babies wouldn't be safe :curtain:


My sweet sweet KILLER golden retriever : It's true ... no fish is safe with her, not even the "tough" ones. Okay, I'll reconsider on that point


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

Bob-N-Tash said:


> PG... I heard a rumor your bird dog breeding program didn't go as well as anticipated. But I thought that these two would have been highly marketable.


I want the Yellow Bellied Golden Finch!!!! Please Please Pleeeease, can I have one?!?!?!?!?!

Too, too cool


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## lynniex (Apr 6, 2009)

Love the last lot of photos, but if the original poster is still reading this thread i think they need to take a long hard look at what there doing, i also agree they should take it to classes,(both of them) and perferably one with a qualified behaviourist, these behaviours are very deep seated and needs professional help. Lets just hope that since the message was first posted they havent had the dog pts:no:


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

Wow, check out this site from Christine's bird dog pics.
http://www.worth1000.com/contest.asp?contest_id=6975&display=photoshop&page=5000#entries


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

moverking said:


> I want the Yellow Bellied Golden Finch!!!! Please Please Pleeeease, can I have one?!?!?!?!?!
> 
> Too, too cool


Please fill out my prospective adoptee questionairre:

*Question #1* - Do you have any money?

*Question #2 -* Have you ever been convicted of an axe murder?

*If the answer to one or more of the questions is either yes or no,*

*please send a non-refundable deposit of $500.*

Your YBGF baby will be mailed as soon as it is 6 weeks old.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

moverking said:


> Wow, check out this site from Christine's bird dog pics.
> http://www.worth1000.com/contest.asp?contest_id=6975&display=photoshop&page=5000#entries



Some of those are really neat!!


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> Please fill out my prospective adoptee questionairre:
> 
> *Question #1* - Do you have any money?
> 
> ...


But, but.....I'd have to see their clearance papers for WTD (wing-tip dysplasia), scissor beak, and drumstick angulation ratio's....

What about picking the yellow-belly that's right for ME and MY FAMILY!
I'm cracking myself up

Don't you need to know more about us?

And what kind of health guarantee do you offer?

I'm going right now to check the YBGFCA website to see if you're on their good breeder list....this sounds a little fishy to me....


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

moverking said:


> But, but.....I'd have to see their clearance papers for WTD (wing-tip dysplasia), scissor beak, and drumstick angulation ratio's....
> 
> What about picking the yellow-belly that's right for ME and MY FAMILY!
> I'm cracking myself up
> ...


 
I have all clearances. I just don't send them in. Besides, if they can fly they're fine. 
If you answer my questionairre, it gives me all the information about you that I need.
I guarantee that they'll be healthy for at least 72 minutes. 
I don't need no stinkin' YBGFCA, that's for elitists.
Now, send me the money or the wings get buffaloed.


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

Now you're cracking _me_ up...between this thread and Christine's Bob's rendition of "People who need people" my afternoon has been so very full of smiles.


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## GoBeyondGreen (Nov 22, 2008)

To agree with everyone, the classes will give you some strategies to use at home. I am replying because your golden sounds a lot like mine. We have been going to training classes for five weeks, and she is good at just about everything except leash walking. The trainer said that goldens are some of the most difficult dogs to leash train because their ancestry makes them want to lead you. She definitely is the opposite of timid, though. My other dog, and American Eskimo (11 years old) is very timid, though, and I was having a lot of trouble getting her to come to me or go outside. I learned the problem through training my golden to come to me: For her (this may not be the case with you, but just an idea), I would be yelling at her to come to me, out of frustration, or I would have her come to me and then anything that is unpleasant about it makes them not want to come to you. I was taught that if you are wanting to teach them to come to you, you need to make it a really exciting, fun event that is always a positive. If they are doing something that you want to correct, go to them, tell them to stop, etc., but do not ask them to come to you - they will learn not to want to. So now I am trying this and am seeing an improvement with my Eskie. Hope this helps, and good luck.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

The Op hasn't posted in a while, which leads me to think it was a troll.
However, it is almost my birthday and I have decided I want a little Yellow Bellied Golden Finch and a Doodle fish! How do I place my orders to ensure their arrival before the big event?


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

coppers-mom said:


> The Op hasn't posted in a while, which leads me to think it was a troll.
> However, it is almost my birthday and I have decided I want a little Yellow Bellied Golden Finch and a Doodle fish! How do I place my orders to ensure their arrival before the big event?


Since I assume that you have money and either are or are not an axe murderer, just send me a deposit ASAP via Paypal and your rare YBGF and Doodlefish are just a click away!!!!!!

Oh yeah - happy birthday!!!!!!!!!


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I think this is the first time I've read this thread?


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