# Comparing Bernese Mountain with GR



## Jamm

I dont know much but i know last year our top 3 dog choices where a GR, a Lab and a Berner. They really are beautiful! My mom just wasent down for that much fur and size!


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## Loisiana

I love them, I think they are the most gorgeous breed out there and the ones I have met had a great personality. BUT they are known for being a very unhealthy breed and dying young.


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## Megora

The Bernese MDs I've seen tend to be more family centric than goldens. Not saying they aren't friendly and outgoing, but at least the ones I've seen at class can be slightly more reserved by comparision. 

They are gentle giants and truly - the ones at class are genius.

They also are a short lived breed by comparision. At least I stopped considering the breed personally when I saw an 8-10 year average life span.


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## Bogey's Mom

I second what Louisiana said. I have looked into them in the past and the scary short life span freaks me out. But they are certainly beautiful dogs!


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## kgiff

Someone recently asked me this in a PM and here is a majority of my response to them:

I have two goldens (aged 8.5 and 2) and an 8 year old berner. Our berner we got at 7 months old when our older golden was 10.5 months, so they're 3.5 months apart. His breeder convinced us that we probably didn't want to go through puppyhood again so soon, and she was re-homing him because he was going to be too short to meet the breed standard. 

Our berner is a teddy bear, he loves to cuddle and give hugs. I'd say he'd be a great therapy dog, but he's terrified of about 50% of the population. He's definitely most comfortable around his people. I'm not sure if his fear of some people is due to not being socialized as a pup or is part of his lines. I've met many a berner who will gladly accept pets from anyone who offers them.

He'd do just about anything for me. We even did agility for a few years until he ended up with arthritis. Was it his favorite thing? Probably not, but he did it because I asked him too. They're not as easy to train as a golden, but still they're wanting to please their people, so they're not too difficult. 

Yes, it's true that some of them don't like to swim. Mine doesn't. But I know a ton that do. He will wade in up to his shoulders, but seems uncomfortable having his feet leave the bottom. Then again he's fallen into a pool and a lake, so that may attribute to his fear of the water. And as far as shedding, really I don't see him shedding anymore than a golden.

As far as getting along with the goldens, I'd say he tolerates them. He thinks a lot of golden games are silly and will scold them if they get too rambunctious. And then he acts all upset because they made him lose his temper. It's fun. I know a ton of people that have the golden/berner combination and I'm not sure why. In our case, my husband wanted a golden and I wanted a berner. 

Now the negative part of owning a berner. The average life span of a bernese mountain dog is 6-8 years. Yup, that's right. There are a fair number of dogs that have made it to 10 and even 11 or 12, but there are a number that have been lost at 3 or 4. Cancer is rampant in the lines and being a large breed dog, the dogs are more subject to bloat. When Berkley turned 8 this past April, it was bittersweet. It was quite the celebration to have him make that milestone, but at the same time we were left wondering when the bomb was going to drop. We knew it was coming, it was just a matter of time. Not this past weekend, but the weekend before we found his lymph nodes were enlarged. We were at the vet on Monday and Tuesday we got the official diagnosis of Lymphoma. He started chemo last Friday and our hope is that he'll see his 9th birthday. His father is still alive and doing well at 10. His mom had to be put down after complications from the litter after his at 5. 

Everyone always asks me if I'll have a berner again. And I can't say I won't at some point have another. I can't imagine not, but I've also fallen in love with training and competing in agility, obedience, and field. And while I know berners that do do agility and obedience, I prefer working with the goldens for now. I do love my cuddly teddy bear. And the berner people say, it's worth having them around for 6 years, than not having them around at all.

Check out http://www.berner.org there is a wealth of information on the breed there. Also the berner-l mailing list is a great place to hear about the breeds and issues facing them. It does definitely require as much research if not more to finding a good line and a good breeder than it does for the goldens.


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## Pointgold

Megora said:


> The Bernese MDs I've seen tend to be more family centric than goldens. Not saying they aren't friendly and outgoing, but at least the ones I've seen at class can be slightly more reserved by comparision.
> 
> They are gentle giants and truly - the ones at class are genius.
> 
> They also are a short lived breed by comparision. At least I stopped considering the breed personally when I saw an 8-10 year average life span.


 
This is typical of most Working/Herding breeds. Additionally, they can be somewhat dog reactive. I love the breed, have shown several and have 3 that board here regularly, but personally have no desire to own one.


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## rappwizard

KG, hugs to your Berkley--I hope he is responding well to the chemo and that he goes into remission and sees his 9th birthday, and many more.

KH--my husband also is intrigued by the BMD, especially since he feels that no male golden can replace our late Jake, who was our first golden, who died last year. I was also told by an instructor from my handling class that there used to be a couple that would come to class with their berners--very friendly dogs--but that one passed away at 8, and the other at 9, and that they considered that to be a long life span for the breed. Reason both times was cancer.


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## MillysMom

I adore Berners! I've been dying to get one, but just don't think I'm at a place in my life to have a breed with so many health problems, and heart break because of their relatively short life expectancy. One day, though, I'll have one! 

All of the ones I've met have been fantastic, sweet, bright dogs. There's a lady who does exhibitions at horse shows across the country that has berners that pull her in a little cart (it looks just like a mini horse cart), which is different than the drafting I've seen. Her's pull in pairs, and fours. It's incredible to watch her do the obstacle course with them!


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## NuttinButGoldens

Berners are really cool. I wouldn't mind having one.

But you must prepare yourself for the sad fact that BMD's do not have long life spans. I hear if they make it to 8 they are doing very well...



KHMeier said:


> Hello,
> 
> Some of you might remember that we lost our lovely 8 month old golden girl Muffy just 5 weeks ago today, to a horrible accident. We still miss Muffy everyday, but we are slowly starting to consider another addition to our family.
> 
> I thought another golden would be the only choice, but there has been some consideration given to getting a Bernese Mountain dog. A friend of mine says that they are very much like goldens in their temperment and I have done a lot of reading about BMD online.
> 
> I thought I would come on this friendly, knowledgable forum to see if you all have any input for me?
> 
> Thanks very much,
> Kristen


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## Selli-Belle

I agree with Kgiff, they are great dogs and may be a better breed for someone who is looking for a dog who doesn't need as much exercise. I have found that they have more hair than a Golden. The short lifespan makes me stay FAR away.


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## HovawartMom

I have the best combo of the Berner lookalike with the GSD/golden personality!.
Jus check my signature!.
I have looked at Berners as a breed and what kept me,away from them,is their short lifespan(shorter than the golden as well as dealing,with the same killing illnesses).
I wanted an active breed and I'm not into drooling breeds so the Berner lost!.
If I went,for a giant breeder,I would go with the Leonberger cos they are more active,love the water and don't drool!.


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## Pointgold

MillysMom said:


> I adore Berners! I've been dying to get one, but just don't think I'm at a place in my life to have a breed with so many health problems, and heart break because of their relatively short life expectancy. One day, though, I'll have one!
> 
> All of the ones I've met have been fantastic, sweet, bright dogs. There's a lady who does exhibitions at horse shows across the country that has berners that pull her in a little cart (it looks just like a mini horse cart), which is different than the drafting I've seen. Her's pull in pairs, and fours. It's incredible to watch her do the obstacle course with them!


 
Otis (Ch. Jenny Creek's Power Play With Adesa) is one of our regulars, and his owners do all sorts of cool carting, and drafting with him. He's a VERY busy guy, and not at all "inactive" !


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## Debles

It is just so depressing seeing the stats on my favorite breeds. All prone to cancer and other problems.
I just read if you get a golden today, that dog has a 60% chance of dying from cancer. 
And it doesn't really matter what the lifespan of the breed if they get cancer. Sorry I am such a downer.


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## HovawartMom

Pointgold said:


> Otis (Ch. Jenny Creek's Power Play With Adesa) is one of our regulars, and his owners do all sorts of cool carting, and drafting with him. He's a VERY busy guy, and not at all "inactive" !


Yes,some are active but generally,speaking,it's not a breed that you're going to take,running with you,while bicycling!.


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## gldnlvr

A co worker of mine and her husband just adopted one from a shelter. She was 8 months old when they got her. Her name is Bella and she is a beauty. I am not real familar with the breed but they are pretty.


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## Megora

Debles said:


> It is just so depressing seeing the stats on my favorite breeds. All prone to cancer and other problems.
> I just read if you get a golden today, that dog has a 60% chance of dying from cancer.
> And it doesn't really matter what the lifespan of the breed if they get cancer. Sorry I am such a downer.


I'm not trying to be complacent here... but I think the type of cancer matters... our two old men both died of cancer at 13. The comfort our family had was we had thirteen healthy years with our boys. They had very full and happy lives. That was splenic cancer - which can occur at any time in a dog's life and it is a gateway cancer (cancer cells are a cazillion times more likely to travel to the other organs), but it seems like the same year we lost our Danny I kept meeting other people who just lost their old goldens to the same cancer. They were all old dogs. Like me, their comfort was they had an old angel who made their houses a home for very many years. 

There are plenty of other cancers in the golden retriever breed which would devastate me. But I hope I'm right in assuming they are still relatively rare in a well bred dog. 

We lost a golden when he was only six, and I can't express how devastating that was. I hope that is still relatively rare. 

If I were looking for large breed besides a golden retriever... I'd definitely look into Kuvasz and Pyrs. I know Pyrs have the same lifespan as newfs and BMD's (8-10 years) and may have the same kind of health issues and Kuvasz may live 15 years. :curtain:


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## Bender

The health thing for sure is a concern.

The ones I've met have been ok, but spooky. As in they'd come for grooming, get put out in a run to potty, and then we'd have to go and catch them/herd them into the smaller run to leash them, because they freaked at the idea of a stranger getting them. Not aggressive, but not as friendly as the goldens as a rule. Not sure if it's a socialization thing or not, but the ones I've worked with have been like that. And they are a powerful dog too, a lot of work to groom when they don't want to help with moving or standing!

Lana


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## C's Mom

I don't know a thing about BMD but they are stunning dogs and if you have your heart set on one then I say go for it. 

I've been reading here about their short life spans and yes, that is something to take into consideration. However, how many of you would turn your golden away if you could only have them for 6-8 years? I had a dog for 8 short years. Of course, I wanted more but I am so thankful that I had even that.


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## kgiff

golden&hovawart said:


> I wanted an active breed and I'm not into drooling breeds so the Berner lost!.


Most Berner's don't drool. 

There are many active berners out there and it's amazing what some of these dogs can do. I really wish I had tried carting or drafting with mine when he was younger. I think he would have liked it.

Even though they're lifespans are short, we don't regret for a single second having brought one into our home.


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## Loisiana

C's Mom said:


> However, how many of you would turn your golden away if you could only have them for 6-8 years? .


If I knew before I got the dog that it would probably only live that long I most likely would look elsewhere. Of course not if I already had the dog.


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## jackie_hubert

I always wanted a BMD and thought of them as gentle giants who you can just give a big hug to. Unfortunately none of the BMDs I have actually met in person have fit that description. Both BMDs in my neighbourhood are dog reactive and do not like to be pet by strangers. They're quite aloof around people. We met a young one on a hike the other day and he tried to take a big chunk our of Cosmo. There is one at the dog park who does fit my original conception, he's really sweet, but still somewhat aloof. 
Then again...half the goldens in my neighbourhood are not nice either so I think it really depends on the individual dog.

I've also heard that they are 3 years puppy, 3 years senile. We fostered young ones for a while and they were pretty crazy.


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## Loisiana

jackie_hubert said:


> I always wanted a BMD and thought of them as gentle giants who you can just give a big hug to. Unfortunately none of the BMDs I have actually met in person have fit that description. Both BMDs in my neighbourhood are dog reactive and do not like to be pet by strangers. They're quite aloof around people.


I haven't found that to be true of the ones I have met, but I would say that is true of most of the Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs I have met.


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## jackie_hubert

Loisiana said:


> I haven't found that to be true of the ones I have met, but I would say that is true of most of the Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs I have met.


Funny, opposite for me. I guess it just proves that dogs are as individual as we are.


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## Sophie_Mom

My very good friend had a Berner, Erma, who passed away just shy of her 5th birthday. The vet, and even the breeder did not seem terribly shocked by her early death. They spent as much money as they could to save her, but her health problems overwhelmed her. My friend is looking to add a second dog (she also has a GSD), but as much as she loved Erma, she won't be getting another Berner. She said that even when Erma was healthy, she still had lots of "issues." They are gorgeous and big teddy bears, but I'm not sure my heart could take such imminent heartache (though I know it's out there for all of them eventually). Beyond that, from what I understand, they are QUITE expensive??


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## kgiff

I really hate hearing about aggressive goldens and aggressive berners. BMDs are working dogs -- their initial purpose was pulling carts of milk through the streets of Switzerland. They're less social than goldens because they had a job to do, but they shouldn't be aggressive having to work around people.



jackie_hubert said:


> I've also heard that they are 3 years puppy, 3 years senile. We fostered young ones for a while and they were pretty crazy.


You forgot the middle 3 ;-) It's an old Swiss saying: "Three years a young dog, three years a good dog, and three years an old dog"


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## HovawartMom

kgiff said:


> Most Berner's don't drool.
> 
> There are many active berners out there and it's amazing what some of these dogs can do. I really wish I had tried carting or drafting with mine when he was younger. I think he would have liked it.
> 
> Even though they're lifespans are short, we don't regret for a single second having brought one into our home.


Oh don't get me wrong,I love them,like I love the golden!.
I spoke about drool cos my neighbour's Berner drools a lot but that might be due to the Floridian heat!.
Berner's like Martha's dogs are beautiful and would love a dog from her but their life span is what scares me away!.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo

I love Berners. My doctor had one, but she didn't live long. I would be sure to find a reputable and responsible breeder if you do decide to make a Berner a family member. Heidi Sarah, my doctor's dog, only lived until she was about 5. He said at least two of those years was spent recovering from surgeries. He has an oil painting of her hanging in his office dated 1988. I think it will hang there until he hangs up his practice...


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## Selli-Belle

I have met a number of nice Berners and GSMDs, but I have also met some of each who were dog reactive, but unfortunately there are some dog reactive Goldens too. I have never met any who were anything but fine with humans. 

And I think as much as I love Goldens, I might go to another breed if Goldens only lived between 8 to 10 years. I have a sister who just lost her 150lb 6 y.o. Shiloh Shepherd and I have another sister who has a 3 y.o. Berner who is suffering from focal seizures, which I understand is not uncommon in Berners. I know what they are going through and I think to myself that I could never do that.


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## tobypuppy

We just lost our second Berner. He celebrated his 11th birthday a month before passing (over a short time lost his vision, hearing and strength in his rear hind quarters). His predecessor, another Berner lived until he was 10 (suffered a severe spinal injury). Both were healthy until the end. 

FYI. Neither were neutered until over 5 years old. Some vets and breeders attribute cancer rates in the large/giant breeds to early neutering.

I would advise anyone geting a Berner to make sure nuetering was delayed until fully mature.


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## Megora

tobypuppy said:


> FYI. Neither were neutered until over 5 years old. Some vets and breeders attribute cancer rates in the large/giant breeds to early neutering.


You are quite fortunate to have BMD's live that long. Unfortunately the ones I know of that I described previously as living very short lives and dying from cancer - these were show dogs (ie intact dogs). I was asking the breeder questions and one of the things she said rather unhappily is that the breeding pool is too small to absolutely breed away from unhealthy dogs. We are lucky with goldens in that with a more popular breed there are so many avenues to go yet to get away from lines inundated with young cancer.


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## Henry's Mum

HovawartMom said:


> Yes,some are active but generally,speaking,it's not a breed that you're going to take,running with you,while bicycling!.


Your Hovawart is beautiful. I didn't know there were any in the States. It's a German breed and when we were living in Germany our neighbour had a blonde Hovawart. At first I mistook it for a Golden. It was a very active friendly dog.


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