# Birds Hot/Cold



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

just a weird thought (I don't know about these things) but didn't you just say she's going into season?
I wonder if that changes how they perceive/handle birds?


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

No advice, just I know the frustration when they won't pick up the bird. However I get it now and again with Teddi ON BUMPERS! brat 

Yeah we work mostly bumpers, don't want anyone to get upset if we bring our dead birds out. We do live in a city neighborhood. However I am trying to talk the hubby into taking at least the duck up north for Quinn to play with.. .What are we saving it for?


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> just a weird thought (I don't know about these things) but didn't you just say she's going into season?
> I wonder if that changes how they perceive/handle birds?


Yes, she is in season right now. I thought we were going to be out of training, but my training group doesn't mind having her around if she runs last. And she actually got really hung up on scent Sunday when a bumper was thrown just beyond where a duck had fallen. She couldn't get past the smell to get to the bumper.....in hindsight not a good training setup for that one.

I really don't think the season affects how she perceives birds. It may make her a little more needy/willing to work. And she has been very interested in the birds for a long time and will try to jump and snatch at them when I am holding them. But, that interest doesn't consistently transfer over to picking them off from the ground. It is an on/off thing which is why I was going to force birds but now she is not giving me an opportunity to correct her. Hmmm...


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

GoldenSail said:


> But, that interest doesn't consistently transfer over to picking them off from the ground. It is an on/off thing which is why I was going to force birds but now she is not giving me an opportunity to correct her. Hmmm...


Oh yes she is. You just said she is flying to birds but then will stop and lay and lick them or pull feathers. Well hello, that's an opportunity if I've ever seen one. ANY instance where she does not immediately pick up and firmly hold a bird is an opportunity. She needs to be forced on birds regardless of "how good" she does at any one or two training sessions. How can you expect her to perform in a training session if she has not been taught in the yard?
Standing over birds, blinking birds, licking them, constant repositioning, dropping, hemming and hawing before picking them up....all violations of TAKE and HOLD and should be corrected. You'll save yourself a lot of grief later by doing a few weeks of FF on birds in your yard.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

An additional question to add into here: if a dog gets the bird but then puts it down to play with it, do you treat that as failure to retrieve (FF correction) or failure to come (recall correction)?

I don't have that problem right now with anyone, it's just a thought that popped into my mind while reading this thread. My mind is telling me it would be a recall correction - the dog did get the bird, just didn't bring it back - but I'm not that experienced in field training so thought I'd get others' opinions.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Good question Jodie.

K9Design--You are right she did present me an opportunity to force. She didn't start doing that until the last retrieve which made me start to realize that I have perhaps been too patient (i.e. giving her time to pick up the bird because she isn't used to opening her mouth that wide and grabbing in the right spot--she's getting better).


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Loisiana said:


> An additional question to add into here: if a dog gets the bird but then puts it down to play with it, do you treat that as failure to retrieve (FF correction) or failure to come (recall correction)?
> 
> I don't have that problem right now with anyone, it's just a thought that popped into my mind while reading this thread. My mind is telling me it would be a recall correction - the dog did get the bird, just didn't bring it back - but I'm not that experienced in field training so thought I'd get others' opinions.



I would initially treat it as a fetch refusal. Here's why. We correct HERE refusal with the collar -- here-nick-here is real easy. But collar forcing to a bird especially in the heat of the moment can be a tricky business, especially if you yell "FETCH" then give a nick -- what if the dog gets the nick as he is reaching for the bird? For a young or inexperienced dog I would march out there and ear pinch to the bird, leave them sitting there holding the bird, walk back and command HERE. 

With Slater I would do exactly this. With Fisher I would just use a nick. Fisher has gotten nicks for putting the bird down to shake off water (similar situation -- fetch and here refusals!), he understands this and won't repeat it, but I'd be very careful doing that with a dog just coming off force fetch.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Well, the good news is I have been working on hold with the bird all week and she is now for the most part picking it up correctly. She's learning that she has to really get her mouth around the bird and at the body.

The bad news is she is very slow with bringing birds back--which I have been working her on a flexi to pull her in if need be. Also, one of the birds has been defeathered on its breast, plus has a bullet hole there. Tonight she tried to snack on that one few times--which I corrected of course! O.O


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

have you tried throwing a diversion bird while she's on the way back?
That gets Tito ZOOMING back, because he knows he's going right back out for another bird!!!


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Nope, no diversion bird but I have been working on this by myself and can't throw very far at all. I am going training this morning and will see what my group thinks.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I *suspect* Scout is doing what Tito did at first....she knows that when she gets back, she's going to have to give up her "prize". So she's not in any big hurry to get back.
Throwing the diversion bird (or bumper) for Tito straightened him out real fast. He learned that just as soon as he got back, there was a really good chance he was going to get to run right back out again.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Thanks Barb I will try it. I think you are right--I was actually thinking of Tito when I noticed that she was starting to drag on the way back.


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