# My unsuccessful return to Utility w/Oriana



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Well after not showing for nearly a year in Utility we had thought that we had made great progress in training. We had a major blow-up at our last match but I bllamed that on not getting there early enough to allow her to settle. Maybe that was not the issue. This past Friday and Saturday we were entered in the LIGRC Specialty. We got there plenty early, warmed up a LOT and Oriana was on the mark in all our warm-ups and silent. I was very hopeful. We entered the ring and as I unhooked her leash I saw "THAT" look in her eyes and I knew "SHE" was back. We set up and started off and was fine all the way to the first turn, about 5 paces, and then it was over. She barked and barked and barked as you can see in the video. And ALL the old habits returned - barking on the send for the articles, playing with the leather article on the return, traveling on the stand, barking flying leap on the go-outs and barking on the way back over the jumps. 
And on Saturday although it was "better" there was still a lot barking. Although the judge at the end when she told us we did not qualify, she did do everything, I said I understood she was barking too much, she saiys "Oh no, the dog would have qualified but you failed. Your drop signal was not legal". I wanted to die. And I know what I did on the drop, after not doing it on Friday it did not appear to me as though she was going to drop so I did something, and i am not sure exactly what, but I guess I paused and then continued which she interpreted as a double signal. 
So Sunday at the match we started a new regimen and will see what it does. It will either break everything or actually fix it all. We have three shows in March.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Oh no I am so sorry! Best of luck training....I had a sheltie as a kid and I can tell you agility was hump-bark-jump-bark, and she barked her way to an NQ in Rally, but never OB. Good luck.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

They don't call it futility for nothing!
JMO (which you didn't ask for), it's YOU, not her. This isn't based on the video, it's just thinking out loud.
When you entered the ring, you felt nervous about what she was going to do. She picked that up, and instantly stressed "up" (Tito stresses "down", but both are stress). When you think about it, dogs can sense an impending seizure, high blood sugar, etc. why in the world wouldn't they sense our ring nerves? It's impossible to hide your own stress from a dog, no matter how hard you try. 
(you'll notice I'm not offering a solution, just putting a thought out there). 
I don't know what to suggest about the barking, either. In this area, it's typical to subtract 3 points every time the dog barks, and NQ you on "out of control" if they bark more than a couple of times. I know a couple of people who have had issues with it have resorted to bark collars in training.
She's lovely,and a little vixen. She seriously looks like she is a LOT of fun!


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm sure it must be very frustrating for you, but from a total lay person with no experience in advanced obedience, I think she was having fun! Is barking a disqualifier?

Are there any show n go's, or fun matches you could practice in before the next official trial?


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## esSJay (Apr 13, 2009)

At least she had fun????  I noticed that her tail never stopped wagging the whole time!

Wishing you better luck in the upcoming shows. 

P.S. Man she gets some good height with her jumps!!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> When you think about it, dogs can sense an impending seizure, high blood sugar, etc. why in the world wouldn't they sense our ring nerves? It's impossible to hide your own stress from a dog, no matter how hard you try. (you'll notice I'm not offering a solution, just putting a thought out there).


I always heard that using a breathmint helps, I'll be sure to have one handy when we start showing again (perhaps May).


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I actually try to do the opposite - instead of trying to hide my stress or anxiety, I try to duplicate it in training so we have experience working through it. They say the best way to raise your own stress level in training is to have someone you don't like judge a run-through for you!

I can't watch the video at work but hope to be able to see it tonight.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

She's young, right? I get the feeling from watching the video that she's just not mentally mature enough to handle all the expectations of Utility (with the added stress that comes from a real show). I didn't even show Quiz in Nov. until he was four. Now, that was partly b/c I'm one of those who isn't happy with anything under 195 (and I enjoy the training process, so I don't care if it takes longer to train for consistently higher scores), but also b/c I knew he came from slow-maturing lines and he was just too silly. I didn't want to flatten his "silly" b/c it's a large part of what makes him flashy... but at the same time, I worried how it would manifest itself in the ring.

Can you have someone video one of your utility run-thrus? It would be interesting to compare them.

On the up-side, she's got plenty of spark, so I doubt taking the next year or two to polish things will slow her down in the least!


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## JDandBigAm (Aug 25, 2008)

My first and only seminar so far was Linda Koutsky. A dog in the group also barked while working and she suggested to take the dog's muzzle and spin the dog around everytime it barked. It seemed to work at the seminar. But you must do it immediately when the dog barks. 
Oriana looked so nice and had great drive on the video.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

dogs are waaaay too smart for the old breath mint trick!



DNL2448 said:


> I always heard that using a breathmint helps, I'll be sure to have one handy when we start showing again (perhaps May).


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I too think it is playing off your nerves. That and you give her NO FEEDBACK while you are working. You are like a statue and she is bouncing around trying to get you to interact with her. The second you line up for heeling, you look away from the dog and take a big breath of nerves and tune the dog out emotionally -- at least that's what I'm seeing. 
Why not work in wild card utility for many weekends? Even if you qualify it doesn't count (which sucks) BUT that means you won't be as nervous.
I assume she doesn't bark at all during training, correct?
If she DOES -- and I mean, even once -- bark collar during EVERY training session. That allows YOU to completely ignore the barking AND correction and allows her to figure that one out on her own, that YOU are not the one getting onto her about barking.
Oh well, just my thoughts!!!!! Would have liked to seen the video of your double command/signal.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Dumb newbie questions... 

First of all I liked what I saw, I know I am no judge but boy I liked Oriana's enthusiasm. She was a dog enjoying herself. Not all bad in my book.

When she was going wide on the return to heels sometimes looking distracted by something out of the picture, was that a point deduction? 

When she was bouncing on the heel?

She was VERY exuberant on her go outs WOW. LOL 

I didn't listen with sound (at work) I hope you can figure out the barking without losing her enthusiasm. I know in field it is a no no too, but the dogs are having way too much fun. Sorry it is bad the dog likes its work. 

I am just starting out LITERALLY I know nothing. I just watch to figure out things. Oh and Oriana didn't get faulted for looking at the judge for the stand for exam did she? Her head was the only thing that moved.

Thanks for sharing!


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Lots of good ideas thanks! 
And yes I know part of the problem is me, always is. We are both working on our weaknesses and hopefully "Boot Camp" will get us straightened out. It is definitely a stress reaction.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Just got to watch the video, very nice girl! I don't know what you've been doing in training, but if this were my dog I'd find a show and go and do whatever it took to bring the barking out, even if it mean doing nothing in that show and go but running up and down the ring playing tag. My thinking is you have to bring out the barking in a more controlled setting (like a match/show and go) so you can correct it in that setting. In training I would be working on getting her high as a kite in order for both of us to learn how to work while she's in that state. That's just what I would do, or least what I think I would do.

BTW, I think those go-outs rival Titan's go-outs LOL


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Loisiana said:


> BTW, I think those go-outs rival Titan's go-outs LOL


Nope she has Titan beat.. She has more air!


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Titan1 said:


> Nope she has Titan beat.. She has more air!



Not sure that is something I WANT to beat anyone at. LOL!!


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

I am not an obedience person, but I have to say, I LOVED watching her in the video, she has so much personality and she certainly loves working with you. Her go outs are very cute!


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## roxanness (May 29, 2009)

I love your girl! What joy and enthusiasm, she makes me smile


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Oh Ann I meant to answer your questions when I was posting last night and I forgot. No Oriana should not have been hit for looking at the judge during the exam. I have seen a judge dock points for a dog ducking her head in avoidance, but should not be just for turning to look. Yes she should have been hit on the finishes that weren't "direct" and "prompt."


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Loisiana said:


> Oh Ann I meant to answer your questions when I was posting last night and I forgot. No Oriana should not have been hit for looking at the judge during the exam. I have seen a judge dock points for a dog ducking her head in avoidance, but should not be just for turning to look. Yes she should have been hit on the finishes that weren't "direct" and "prompt."


Thanks Jodie.... since I am in EARLY EARLY obedience training I want to make sure I encourage the proper behavior. 

Does Flip bounce like that on go outs? I thought of him.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Maxs Mom said:


> Thanks Jodie.... since I am in EARLY EARLY obedience training I want to make sure I encourage the proper behavior.
> 
> Does Flip bounce like that on go outs? I thought of him.


 
Titan bounces...LOL!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Nope Flip doesn't have that bounce but I wouldn't be surprised if he adds it in later! Right now I'm kind of "hovering" to make sure he's holding his mark and not breaking. Right now he's kind of at an inbetween stage where if he's holding his mark he's more likely to break or if he's focusing on not breaking he's more likely to take his eyes off his mark to check in with me (or the dog next door, or the leave blowing, or the invisible fleck of nothing...:no


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Titan1 said:


> Titan bounces...LOL!



PLEASE share, I would love to see it.
Oriana has done that leap on the go outs since day one of learning go-outs. I have no way of knowing how to train it. I too thought it was cute as she did not add the "woof" till much later. 
Another "Orianaism" is her back pivot to glove #3 which we also thought we had under control but it has reappeared with loosing the leash. I am noot sure if I am going to worry about it though as she is quiet on that. What she does if you close your eyes you might be able to picture it. As I back pivot for #3 she spins in towards me and does a full 360 and ends up in heel position. It has been referred to as cute, different, bizarre to "what the hell was that?" Again not something I trained her to do, just the way she did it from the beginning.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

AmbikaGR said:


> PLEASE share, I would love to see it.
> Oriana has done that leap on the go outs since day one of learning go-outs. I have no way of knowing how to train it. I too thought it was cute as she did not add the "woof" till much later.
> Another "Orianaism" is her back pivot to glove #3 which we also thought we had under control but it has reappeared with loosing the leash. I am noot sure if I am going to worry about it though as she is quiet on that. What she does if you close your eyes you might be able to picture it. As I back pivot for #3 she spins in towards me and does a full 360 and ends up in heel position. It has been referred to as cute, different, bizarre to "what the hell was that?" Again not something I trained her to do, just the way she did it from the beginning.


OMG Slater will do this if commanded to HEEL during something exciting in field work i.e. setting up to send for a memory bird. Instead of moving his butt backwards into heel position he will turn his head into me and turn around that way. It makes me CRAZY and I will take him by the tab and make him BACK UP correctly. Fisher has never done this so --- blame it on Glenda!! haha


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

http://www.facebook.com/#!/video/video.php?v=160753293940910


AmbikaGR said:


> PLEASE share, I would love to see it.
> Oriana has done that leap on the go outs since day one of learning go-outs. I have no way of knowing how to train it. I too thought it was cute as she did not add the "woof" till much later.
> Another "Orianaism" is her back pivot to glove #3 which we also thought we had under control but it has reappeared with loosing the leash. I am noot sure if I am going to worry about it though as she is quiet on that. What she does if you close your eyes you might be able to picture it. As I back pivot for #3 she spins in towards me and does a full 360 and ends up in heel position. It has been referred to as cute, different, bizarre to "what the hell was that?" Again not something I trained her to do, just the way she did it from the beginning.


Hank I have it posted on my facebook page because my internet at home is not fast enough to load it here.. You can see a few of Titan's run there.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/video/video.php?v=160753293940910


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Titan1 said:


> http://www.facebook.com/#!/video/video.php?v=160753293940910
> 
> Hank I have it posted on my facebook page because my internet at home is not fast enough to load it here.. You can see a few of Titan's run there.
> http://www.facebook.com/#!/video/video.php?v=160753293940910



Thanks Michelle, very nice. I can only hope to get to that level someday.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

AmbikaGR said:


> Thanks Michelle, very nice. I can only hope to get to that level someday.


Hank if I can get here anyone can... You have a great girl and it is much nicer to pull her down than to have to pick her up.... How old is she?


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Titan1 said:


> Hank if I can get here anyone can... You have a great girl and it is much nicer to pull her down than to have to pick her up.... How old is she?


She will be 3 on March 1.


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