# Best English / Cream Breeders?



## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

Welcome to the forum. I am glad you are starting your search here. There are a lot of scam breeders who use the term English Cream so be cautious and get help checking for health clearances. If you find a litter, post the sire and dam's registered names and someone will help you look the clearances up, if you want. Have you read this?

https://www.goldenretrieverforum.co...actly-english-golden-retriever-bev-brown.html

Best wishes on your search.


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## SoConfused (Jan 29, 2019)

cwag said:


> Welcome to the forum. I am glad you are starting your search here. There are a lot of scam breeders who use the term English Cream so be cautious and get help checking for health clearances. If you find a litter, post the sire and dam's registered names and someone will help you look the clearances up, if you want. Have you read this?
> 
> https://www.goldenretrieverforum.co...actly-english-golden-retriever-bev-brown.html
> 
> Best wishes on your search.



Thank you!

At the moment I am mostly considering Alpine Goldens 

They list the parents for the current litter as

Chaynaya Rosa iz Sokolinogo
​Call Name: Chaika

Angelonato Hurricane 

Call Name: Garik


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

We can pretty much guarantee that if you go searching for dogs using either of the terms "English" or "cream" that you will end up overpaying or just plain taken advantage of by an unethical or ignorant person. We have seen just about every variation you can on puppy buyers being scammed by greedy people making money off of light colored puppies. I suggest you read a few threads from this week to get an understanding of what we see by the dozens here every few weeks. If you knew what we have seen on this forum you would run as fast as you can from breeders selling 'lighter' colors of GOldens. Here are a few typical issues:

https://www.goldenretrieverforum.co...breeder-puppy/503802-storybrooke-goldens.html

https://www.goldenretrieverforum.co...-help-search-english-breeder-will-travel.html

https://www.goldenretrieverforum.co...0-calm-river-goldens-puppy-health-issues.html

I suggest that you look for a breeder who focuses on showing their dogs in some venue as a hobby, provides full clearances on breeding dogs and isn't breeding litter after litter of "cream" puppies. www.grca.org is a great place to start. You can also look on facebook for "Golden Retriever Litter Listings by Reputable Breeders".


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

JBands said:


> Thank you!
> 
> At the moment I am mostly considering Alpine Goldens
> 
> ...


You have just proven my point. Probably the worst offenders over the years.
I suggest you read through these threads:
https://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/gtsearch.php?q=alpine goldens


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## SoConfused (Jan 29, 2019)

nolefan said:


> JBands said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you!
> ...



I’m sorry but I am failing to see your point. Cream, English, yada yada they can call it whatever they want I just enjoy the lighter complected color. 

My main concern is the health and there is no threads that address this. Their website lists the dogs as having good certifications and details them so I was hoping someone with a bit more experience could shed light on the pedigree / health clearances


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

*I am a novice at clearances. It looks like they don't have the 4core clearances*

I am a novice at clearances and it looks like they don't have the same ones as usually listed for Golden Retriever Club of America members in their code of ethics. I guess their dogs are imported. For what you are willing to pay I would think you could get something with good clearances for several generations.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

So, the measure of a good breeder would be completing the health certifications for the country they live in and hopefully competing in some venue with their dogs. That would be regardless of what color or pedigree origin. 

Here is what should be done for dogs that live in the us:
Hips at 24 months or more that are submitted to a public verification database such as OFA 
Elbows at 24 months or more that are submitted to a public verification database such as OFA 
Heart certification by a veterinary cardiologist (not a practitioner) submitted to a public verification database such as OFA 
Eyes done annually and submitted to a public verification database such as OFA

Optional additional testing is recommended for DNA issues such as PRA (3 variants), NCL (really new on the scene), DM, Ichthyosis, etc. again the breeder could submit them to OFA to make verification for puppy shoppers to double check. 

The issue with a lot of breeders that breed for color is that they are scouring dogs from the Eastern European countries. Not that there are not good breeders over there but there are a bunch that are comercial kennels breeding purposely to export a cash crop of pale puppies and young dogs to the US because the craze here for pale puppies. These dogs imported with European health certifications do not usually meet the more stringent health testing we do in the US, which is why many color based breeders want to import young dogs with European health testing so they can claim those are good enough and side step the US health certifications. Unfortunately many dogs imported on European health certifications done at 12 months old and sometimes younger fail if they are tested her at the appropriate age over 24 months. 

If a breeder is truly concerned about health and not just paying it lip service, they should have no problem meeting the stringent testing here. Sadly because many buyers are putting color first or falling for the “healthier or calmer than American dogs” misrepresentation color focused breeders are almost always not good breeders. 

Below is an example of my girl that I spent years working toward being able to bring over from a great though small breeder from Western Europe. We are waiting for her NCL DNA results but as you can see, everything else is easily verifiable including her CHIC qualification right on OFA. 

Link - https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1913739


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

JBands said:


> I’m sorry but I am failing to see your point. Cream, English, yada yada they can call it whatever they want I just enjoy the lighter complected color.
> 
> My main concern is the health and there is no threads that address this. Their website lists the dogs as having good certifications and details them so I was hoping someone with a bit more experience could shed light on the pedigree / health clearances




The point your failing to see is the very reason you created this thread, to ask for help and understanding but am to be dismissing this. Breeders that use terms like Cream or English Cream are not reputable breeders as they would never sell or market their dogs and pups based on color. Reputable breeders rarely have more then one liter of pups on the ground at the same time either. These are signs of breeding for profit. So the fact you're saying that you main concern is health of the pups but are dismissing the fact that some have explained to you the the color thing is a huge red flag "English Cream yada yada yada then can call it whatever they want" is THE WHOLE POINT.

looking at the dogs you listed the names of, there is no submitted info on OFA. this likely means these dogs are imported from Europe as an instant breeding stock for mad producing puppies on a short cut. They may have clearances from over seas but not here. Hips aren't too be done till 24 months of age but are done overseas as early as 12-14 months. 

For you to just read off their site about clearances and accept that is irresponsible. Those clearances are likely from another country with standards much much lower then here in the US. If you can't verify the 4 core clearances on OFA, the you should move on based on your own words of "My main concern is health"


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

You can certainly find reputable breeders that prefer "English" lines over American. That is just a personal preference that any breeder is entitled to. The difference is that these breeders will never use the marketing term "English Cream/Creme". That term is just a flashy marketing technique used to lure unaware buyers into thinking they are getting a "better" or "special" type of golden retriever, when in reality the only difference is the color of the coat. It is something you will have to research and look harder to find.

My puppy Denver is very light blonde, however he and the rest of his litter just happened to be a varying light shades of gold. He does have English lineage on his Dam's side, but his Sire is an American boy through and through and also a lighter shade of gold. Point being, you can find breeders of conformation goldens with lighter blonde shades. I posted a few breeders that I am a fan of on this thread: https://www.goldenretrieverforum.co...-help-search-english-breeder-will-travel.html

I am not sure how far you are willing to travel (fly?), but that may be a start. Best of luck!


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## drew510 (Sep 12, 2017)

Welcome to the forum. As you can see, the terms Cream or English get people a little twitchy around here. I'll try and be a little more constructive rather than going straight into battle mode. Just looking at the dogs on their website, it would appear that they were imported from Russia and reportedly have FCI (ie, International) health certifications. I tried for a few minutes to find a registry similar to OFA that would show those certifications to no avail. Maybe someone here can help with that. FYI, the AKC does recognize FCI and there appears to be a process to apply to have a dog accepted into AKC.

I have zero experience with this breeder and have not read up on them, but I would encourage you to read the linked threads for anecdotal information.

Just on the surface, for me, if I could not somehow verify those health certifications by some sort of registry, I would not even consider a breeder. After all, they could list all the certifications they wanted and have no way to disprove (or prove) them. I'd also question why they did not go through the expense to get American health certs. Best of luck.


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

If somebody wants a white dog, I recommend Clumber Spaniels. They're spaniels, not retrievers, for sure but they're delightful dogs and actually come in white, unlike Golden Retrievers.


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## Jlwvip (Oct 24, 2020)

SoConfused said:


> I’m looking to get my first dog and I’m specifically interested in the lighter completed variety of the golden retriever which I’ve seen called a few things such as English or cream etc
> 
> The problem is I know pretty much nothing when it comes to pedigree and all of that.
> 
> ...


Wow I thought your question was valid. It appears that everyone is jumping on you for asking a question. If it is your preference to have a white or cream golden then that is your preference. Did you find a Breeder?


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## CCoopz (Jun 2, 2020)

Jlwvip said:


> Wow I thought your question was valid. It appears that everyone is jumping on you for asking a question. If it is your preference to have a white or cream golden then that is your preference. Did you find a Breeder?


I think you are missing the point. Whilst it is ok to have a preference, people are trying to explain that unfortunately there has been and continues to be a lot of irresponsible breeding associated with that preference.

Preference for the look of the dog should never be at the expense of the health of the dog.
People are simply trying to give the poster the info she/he needs to get a healthy well bred puppy. Some have kindly pointed out that that is still possible if they want to stick to their preference of a cream coloured golden but that they will have to use the info/advice given to search extra hard for a healthy well bred cream puppy.

I live in England UK! And reputable breeders who are not only kennel club assured (have health clearances) but also place in crufts for confirmation lines DON’T call their dogs ‘English Cream’ even when they are in fact that colour! The best breeders also caution that Kennel club assurances isn’t always the top level of breeding. And to contact your regional GR club to ask for reputable breeders details.

The UK also has a problem with puppy mills in EASTERN EUROPE marketing designer puppies, advertising them on websites and importing them. Some die within weeks even days! They often have terrible expensive health problems.

In the UK the cream colour is just one of three confirmation (show) acceptable colours, others being Gold and Golden. Reputable English breeders do not breed to a marketing gimmick to advertise and sell ‘English Cream’ GR’s.

I actually have a cream golden. But when we are out and about people who have or have had goldens never refer to him as an English Cream. He is just a Golden Retriever. He is a rescue so I didn’t choose his colour. After applying to our regional golden retriever club (run by those reputable breeders I allude to earlier) for a rescue GR they contacted us to see if we wanted to adopt Teddy. At no point did they refer to him as an English Cream. Only that the people giving him up had got him from a reputable confirmation (show) breeder in the region but for data protection couldn’t tell us more. Data protection laws very strict in the UK.

The main lesson being ‘English Cream’ is not a thing even in England with regards to good breeders and healthy puppies. No1 priority is health of the dogs and continuation of good breeding.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I think the 'jumping on' happened when OP didn't grasp the points being made. Color is just cosmetic. A bad heart isn't.
And UK and Eastern Euro bred are as different as night and day. I wouldn't touch an Eastern Euro pedigree with a ten foot pole if I wanted a dog that'll be around more than a variable few minutes to years.


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