# Also, questions about obediance



## Shutterwolf (Jan 30, 2012)

to go with my question about agility, im curious about obediance... my girl of course knows sit stay and down (mmost of the time) but sometimes with distractions she forgets or chooses not to listen for a bit then after i get mad she realizes "oh crap he really means it" and finally listens... 

how would i begin to train for obediance, and what all does it include... im sure theres probly more to it then just sit and stay lol


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## IndyBindy (Nov 4, 2011)

You should watch some youtube videos of competition, levels Novice, Open and Utility. Then you could read the rule book (on akc.org), which is full of tons of great info and gives you an idea how things should be done. 

Yes...there is more than sit, down and stay. Lots more but it is super fun to train and the end result is very impressive. Watch some videos and see what you think!


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## Blondie (Oct 10, 2009)

You might want to spend some time researching obedience training facilities in your area. You might run into a good, better and best scenario. Get the best that you can afford that goes with positive training. Clicker training is the way to go, according to the experts nowadays. I was so old fashioned and resistant to the clicker that I didn't train Maggie with a clicker. Now I am considering taking her back to square one, as we have a local facility with an excellent reputation for positive training with a clicker.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

*Novice*:

1. You do a heeling pattern on leash. This includes halt/sits, left turn, right turn, about turn, 2 changes of pace (fast and slow). 

2. Figure 8 follows. This means you doing a heeling pattern around 2 people standing there as posts. Your dog is supposed to maintain heel position and focus. There are 3 halts, including the final one.

3. Stand for exam follows. You put your dog into a stand position, tell him stay, leave him. The judge will then do a quick brush of hand from head to butt, back away, and tell you to go back. The dog must not show fear or aggression towards the judge, must not move a single foot, and must not break position until the judge tells you exercise finished.

4. Heel off leash follows. This is usually the same pattern as on leash. The same components are required (3 halts, about turn, left turn, right turn, fast, slow, etc). 

5. Recall exercise follows. You put your dog into a wait/stay and walk a ring length away and call your dog to come. The dog is supposed to come and automatically sit. This has to be a straight sit and has to be what the judge sees as "within reach" without bumping into you. Then you finish your dog (hand signal or verbal). The dog is supposed to move to heel position and sit. 

6. You leave the ring and wait for stays which are done as a group, this after everyone has completed the other stuff. The dog is put into a stay in a lineup of dogs, the trainer walks a ring length away. Sits are 1 minute. Downs are 3 minutes. Both are short times, but do feel like an eternity when you are out there and hoping nothing bad happens. 

*Beginner Novice:*

This is an optional class, but it is a GREAT way to get into trials if you have a young dog or you yourself have not ever done obedience.

1. There is a _very_ basic heel pattern. Instead of a judge calling it, you are just following signs/cones. The only complaint I had when I did this was they don't give you a lot of room to get heeling in between cones. 

2. Figure 8. This is exactly like the novice F8.

3. Sit for exam. You walk to the end of the 6 foot leash you will be using for beginner novice. The judge goes in and lightly touches the back of your dog's head and backs away. 

4. Sit stay. The dog is put in a stay in the middle of the ring and you walk around the entire perimeter. The stay is not timed. It is only as long as you can get around the ring without running. 

5. Recall exercise. This is a shorter distance than the novice recall. There is no finish. 

*Rally Novice*

Very basic stuff... 


*Rules:*

Novice - No talking (aside from telling your dog to heel, front, wait, stay), no treats (not even on your person), no luring/handling/training, no corrections or adjustments, no leash movement, your hands can't be guiding or correcting the dog in any way. The dog needs to remain under control throughout, even in the "non judged" between-exercise parts. 

Beginner Novice - The same as Novice, except you are permitted to praise your dog once during the heeling portion. 

Rally - You can talk throughout, as long as you aren't excessive or "begging" your dog. From what I understand, they are cracking down as of this year on excessive handling and perceived luring. So you aren't allowed to guide your dog with "treat fingers" anymore. 

**** Advanced obedience is quite a bit more involved, complicated, etc... obviously. But the above would be your focus if you are thinking about getting started in obedience. 

Personally speaking, I would find a training club in your area that teaches all levels of obedience. You would get started with the CGC level. This is your very basic obedience, but does involve training your dog to ignore distractions (including people) while working. Where I trained, competition basics was both the intro to novice obedience and rally. And after that there were 3-4 levels before people started doing polish classes.

If you want to show in novice and be very good at it, it's not something that happens overnight. There is a lot of training. And while the majority of training happens in your home and backyard, you still need to attend classes every week or as often as possible to have another pair of eyes correcting your handling and also to get your dogs used to be comfortable and focused around a lot of people and dogs. If you are a novice handler it is really tough holding yourself together when you enter those first few trials. I've seen some novice a people shaking and exhibiting all kinds of signs of anxiety and fear before they even enter the ring. The last thing you want to deal with in times like that is a dog who isn't used to working around other dogs or NOISE and suddenly is exhibiting all kinds of wild behavior that he never showed while you were training at home or whatnot.


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## Shutterwolf (Jan 30, 2012)

Megora said:


> *Novice*:
> 
> 1. You do a heeling pattern on leash. This includes halt/sits, left turn, right turn, about turn, 2 changes of pace (fast and slow).
> 
> ...


hmm thanks for all the info, not sounding quite like something my girl would wanna do. shes too much of an active type dog. i just need to get basic obediance maybe, to start in agility?


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## Shutterwolf (Jan 30, 2012)

Blondie said:


> You might want to spend some time researching obedience training facilities in your area. You might run into a good, better and best scenario. Get the best that you can afford that goes with positive training. Clicker training is the way to go, according to the experts nowadays. I was so old fashioned and resistant to the clicker that I didn't train Maggie with a clicker. Now I am considering taking her back to square one, as we have a local facility with an excellent reputation for positive training with a clicker.


the best i can afford unfortunately means learning to do it myself... and ive never understood how the clicker works. i have one and ive clicked it a few times just to test for a reaction and well, she didnt react at all. could care less really. she doesnt even care about the dog whistle app on my phone. and to test that she has good hearing, i said "food" really softly and she responded immediately...so its not a matter of not hearing the whistle or clicker... lol


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Shutterwolf said:


> hmm thanks for all the info, not sounding quite like something my girl would wanna do. shes too much of an active type dog. i just need to get basic obediance maybe, to start in agility?


Just keep in mind that active dogs do better in obedience than lazy slowmoving ones. 

Having a zippy dog doesn't meant that obedience would be #epicfail. Otherwise, there would be a lot more mastiffs and St. Bernard ruling the roost in obedience. :wave:

@clickers - you "load" the clicker sound first. Click+treat. That way the dog learns that the "click" sound means a treat is coming. It is not necessarily a sound to get attention.


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## Shutterwolf (Jan 30, 2012)

Megora said:


> Just keep in mind that active dogs do better in obedience than lazy slowmoving ones.
> 
> Having a zippy dog doesn't meant that obedience would be #epicfail. Otherwise, there would be a lot more mastiffs and St. Bernard ruling the roost in obedience. :wave:
> 
> @clickers - you "load" the clicker sound first. Click+treat. That way the dog learns that the "click" sound means a treat is coming. It is not necessarily a sound to get attention.


hmm ok, my girl is super ADD tho especially in big crowds. needs a halti for walking around at the pet expo and such type events. very easially distracted. it would be wonderful if she could be trained for obediance, but knowing her, i dont see it happening....but then again im new to this and not claiming to know all lol... 

as for the clicker, thats interesting. so the clicker will then eventually act as the treat itself? so they know they did good when they hear it... thats my guess anyway


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

most higher level obedience trainers seek out the "crazier" dogs for training. A dog who naturally sits calmly at his owner's side would likely not be a top choice for most obedience trainers.

The point of the clicker is to mark the exact moment the dog is correct. It is always followed by a treat. The reason it is used is because there is going to be a delay from the time the dog performs the correct action to when he recieves the reward. The clicker lets the dog know the exactly when it was that it did something correct. I personally don't use a clicker in my training very much, so it is not something that is necessary for successful training, just one of many training options available.

I think the best bet, cheapest option for someone training alone and on a budget is to get a good book that covers a step by step training program and sign up for some yahoo training groups to ask questions and get ideas.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Shutterwolf said:


> hmm ok, my girl is super ADD tho especially in big crowds. needs a halti for walking around at the pet expo and such type events. very easially distracted. it would be wonderful if she could be trained for obediance, but knowing her, i dont see it happening....but then again im new to this and not claiming to know all lol...
> 
> as for the clicker, thats interesting. so the clicker will then eventually act as the treat itself? so they know they did good when they hear it... thats my guess anyway


Sounds like what you're looking for is some good pet training to create a well-mannered dog so that you might consider doing some sort of sport like agility. Where in Central Cal are you? Anywhere near here? Dog Training; Beyond Obedience - San Luis Obispo, Arroyo Grande, Central Coast - Gentle Touch Pet Training

The clicker is a conditioned reinforcer - meaning, the dog learns to associate it with a primary reinforcer (something he didn't need to learn to like, such as food). Click marks the moment in time where the dog does what you'd like ... and it bridges the gap between the time the dog performs correctly and the time you deliver the food. It's used in the teaching phase of a behavior; once a behavior is solid and reliably on-cue, most people don't use the clicker.

There is nothing magic about the "click" by itself (same for a dog whistle, etc.) so I'm not surprised you say your dog didn't really respond to it. It really is just a sound until you teach the dog that it, as a sound, has a particular meaning.


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## Shutterwolf (Jan 30, 2012)

FlyingQuizini said:


> The clicker is a conditioned reinforcer - meaning, the dog learns to associate it with a primary reinforcer (something he didn't need to learn to like, such as food). Click marks the moment in time where the dog does what you'd like ... and it bridges the gap between the time the dog performs correctly and the time you deliver the food. It's used in the teaching phase of a behavior; once a behavior is solid and reliably on-cue, most people don't use the clicker.
> 
> There is nothing magic about the "click" by itself (same for a dog whistle, etc.) so I'm not surprised you say your dog didn't really respond to it. It really is just a sound until you teach the dog that it, as a sound, has a particular meaning.


Ahhh ok thanks for that! between this description and the one above you i have a better understanding of it now and i think ill try working on that later tonight. getting her trained on the click = treat routine. Thanks for the advise on that! 

As for the training place you linked, that's pretty far south west from me. im north of Fresno a bit. That's kinda interesting that a trainer would look for the hyper dog to train tho, but i guess maybe its because its more of a challenge?


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## Maddie'sMom2011 (Apr 26, 2011)

Shutterwulf, it's a conditioned response, like Pavlov's dogs.

I just checked out your photo link @ deviantart--very cool pictures. Where do you find your subjects?


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## Casey and Samson's Mom (Sep 24, 2011)

When you first start...CLICK...treat...CLICK...treat and so on....it is called LOADING the clicker. I do it initially just when they LOOK at me. LOOK, click/treat etc.


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## Aislinn (Nov 13, 2010)

As Jodie said, high energy dogs are usually the ones who excel the best at obedience. Have you looked into obedience classes where you live? Both Agility and Obedience require a good amount of time in training.


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## Shutterwolf (Jan 30, 2012)

Maddie'sMom2011 said:


> Shutterwulf, it's a conditioned response, like Pavlov's dogs.
> 
> I just checked out your photo link @ deviantart--very cool pictures. Where do you find your subjects?


Well most of the subjects other then my own are usually friends dogs, but also sometimes at the dog park, or at the beach or wherever i see dogs. i generally talk to the owner and explain that i do this as a hobby and would like to take some pictures of their dog for practice. Would like to make some money at it one day but well see. till then i do it for fun. 

Perhaps if i get into the agility stuff i can do photography of that in my down time when im not workin with Shelly (my girl)


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## Shutterwolf (Jan 30, 2012)

Casey and Samson's Mom said:


> When you first start...CLICK...treat...CLICK...treat and so on....it is called LOADING the clicker. I do it initially just when they LOOK at me. LOOK, click/treat etc.


Awsome thanks for that, ill try that tonight on her and see how she responds


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## Shutterwolf (Jan 30, 2012)

Aislinn said:


> As Jodie said, high energy dogs are usually the ones who excel the best at obedience. Have you looked into obedience classes where you live? Both Agility and Obedience require a good amount of time in training.


I havent looked into ones near me yet, i did however talk to California k9 solutions out of the bay area, but that would be around 60 bucks just in gas to get there and back so thats not an option. I heard there is one closer but not sure.


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

Your girl might also find tracking fun!!


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## Shutterwolf (Jan 30, 2012)

Stretchdrive said:


> Your girl might also find tracking fun!!



never done that and dont know what it is really. only heard the term a few time lol


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## Shutterwolf (Jan 30, 2012)

well i FINALLY found a local agility club and training facility fairly close by. sent a few emails and will see how it goes from there!


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## Shutterwolf (Jan 30, 2012)

Casey and Samson's Mom said:


> When you first start...CLICK...treat...CLICK...treat and so on....it is called LOADING the clicker. I do it initially just when they LOOK at me. LOOK, click/treat etc.


Ive started loading her on the clicker and so far so good, im using basic commands she knows tho so its not so random. sit lay down shake go to bed and of course come here ^^


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