# Which breeder would you choose?



## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Both are good choices for conformation style dogs, and they typically do all the health clearances and socialization. You'd need to do your due diligence on the planned litter, of course, but you shouldn't have any concerns.

If you buy from Kyon, you'll need to get a rabies waiver to bring your pup home under 12 weeks old. The US changed their rules about importing dogs a few years ago, but people here have done it with relatively little issue. Kyon has probably helped new puppy families with it, too, as they sell into the US fairly regularly from what I understand.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I love my Harborview golden, Lush  . She is a funny, sweet and lovely girl, and aging in a healthy way ( aside from her self-inflicted porcupine tiny spot where the hair grows funny .


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Just curious... why those 2 breeders?

Both are good choices, but they just seem very different in my brain. And neither of them is close to where you live. There's a lot of breeders in NY/NJ.


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## sns3948 (Aug 2, 2011)

Megora, youre right! Theyre both about 8 hours from us.
Based on the research i have done throughout the northeast, nj and pa those are the 2 that i keep coming back to. 
They definitely are different from each other...hence this post i guess. Big kennel feel vs small homey breeder.
Ive traced the pedigrees from k9data for most of the dogs listed on each breeders website and have found each of them to have the least spottiness when it comes to clearances. They also have the most recorded years of death on their past dogs allowing me to judge longevity.
My problem now is picking which one to go with. 
Im trying also to avoid a gold rush line. I am absolutely not looking to debate or fight about this but our golden was sired by a gold rush dog and we lost him to cancer at 7 years old. A touch of research has led me to multiple people experiencing similar situations so i would rather stay away from that line if possible.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

They breed completely different style goldens too. That was my primary ?????? 

There are other breeders in NY and along the eastern seaboard who do not have Gold Rush lines. There's one in Maryland who I just heard is expecting a couple litters at the end of Dec (pups won't be going home until spring). And there's another breeder in NY who has puppies on the ground (probably all spoken for, but).... 

Was just wondering if you were limiting yourself to breeders brought up on the forum or if you had touched base with breeder referrals in your area and going through closer states? 

Nothing against the 2 breeders you mentioned. I just sometimes think people are leapfrogging over good breeders close to home - and it puts them in a tough spot down the road when they might want to have closer contact with their breeders. 

For me or my experience - breeders are invaluable for teaching owners how to groom their dogs, it's meeting up with them at dog shows and touching base on small weird questions they might have, it's a lot of things that some people who go long distance for breeders miss out on.


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## sns3948 (Aug 2, 2011)

All good points. We kept in close contact with our goldens breeder for the duration of his life. 
If you could give me the names of the breeders you are refering to i would definitely look into them.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

You have Goodtimes Goldens in Westchester ( Bedford NY) and Karin Fisher/ Wochica near you. The Long Island Specialty is one of my favorite shows of the year, and the turn out is amazing for Rally, Obedience, and conformation. That would be a great show for you to attend and meet local breeders. There are so many near you who do a nice job.


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## dlmrun2002 (Mar 4, 2011)

I would steer clear of Goodtimes in Bedford. I know of some health issues associated with this breeder. But her puppies are on TV so maybe that makes everything ok.

dlm ny country


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## sns3948 (Aug 2, 2011)

Thanks for the replies. While i appreciate input on other breeders i am really looking for experiences with either Kyon or Harborview as they are the two we are most interested in.


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## Mary Schaleen (Jul 24, 2017)

So.....I have a Kyon puppy, 20 weeks old tomorrow. I chose them partially for their reputation for longevity in their lines as well, and I flew from Idaho to get him! 
So here's what I would tell you:
Their wait list is LONG! I started looking when Cooper died in November of 2016. I decided on Kyon about June, 2017, called and was told that the wait list was closed until January 2018. Got up early own New Year's Day to email  Finally brought puppy home in September of this year, so almost two years start to finish.
I wanted to bring him back in the plane cabin and only found one airline that would work for me flying from my airport. There are a lot of restrictions now, Delta requires that puppy be 12 weeks old, United won't fly puppies "internationally", Alaska didn't work at all, so I ended up on American. They were great! 
You have to get permission from the CDC to import a puppy who has not yet had his rabies shots. It was a very easy form to fill out, they also requested a picture, but said I could just send a picture of the males in the litter if they were the same color, as my puppy had not yet been picked for me. Coming back into the US, the customs guy asked about his rabies certificate and was a bit befuddled when I said he didn't have one but I had permission from there CDC to bring him in. He asked for my paperwork, but just skimmed it and passed us through.
Good luck, whichever way you choose to go....


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## ChrisFromOC (Sep 19, 2018)

Mary Schaleen said:


> So.....I have a Kyon puppy, 20 weeks old tomorrow. I chose them partially for their reputation for longevity in their lines as well, and I flew from Idaho to get him!
> So here's what I would tell you:
> Their wait list is LONG! I started looking when Cooper died in November of 2016. I decided on Kyon about June, 2017, called and was told that the wait list was closed until January 2018. Got up early own New Year's Day to email  Finally brought puppy home in September of this year, so almost two years start to finish.
> I wanted to bring him back in the plane cabin and only found one airline that would work for me flying from my airport. There are a lot of restrictions now, Delta requires that puppy be 12 weeks old, United won't fly puppies "internationally", Alaska didn't work at all, so I ended up on American. They were great!
> ...


Glad it worked out for you!


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

I would seriously consider looking closer to home...I just hope in your research, it hasn't been limited to this forum.


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## MushyB (Oct 31, 2018)

Hi!! We will be getting our Kyon pup in just under a month (meeting Sean on 12/20 to get him), and I can also attest to the ... let's call them challenges  of getting our boy across the border. 

I researched multiple airlines, and couldn't find one that would allow a puppy under 12 weeks to fly internationally - I have found a few that allow 8 week old puppies to fly domestically. So I'll be flying into Toronto, staying the night, meeting Sean in the morning, then driving down to Buffalo to fly out from there. I already have our clearance from the CDC, and will have all of the vet clearances from Kyon, so hopefully the border crossing will go smoothly. Then it's 2 flights (he's got his reservation already on our flights back) to get us back to Sacramento - American, just like Mary. LMK if you want my notes on the other airlines I checked out.

Not sure if you are close enough that you can drive up, or if you'll have to fly to get your pup.

Sean has been terrific from the get-go - when he realized we were in CA, he asked if we wanted referrals to breeders closer to us, but I, like you, liked Kyon for the beautiful dogs and longevity of many of them (I realize there are no guarantees in life, however!). Since we don't plan on showing, being in close proximity to Kyon wasn't as priority for us, and our plan is to continue to keep in touch via email/phone. 

We're about 4 weeks out from our boy joining our family; we're all very excited, and pretty much hoping against hope the weather is good for this trip! 

Good luck with your decision!! Looking forward to seeing the direction you chose to go


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## sns3948 (Aug 2, 2011)

Thanks Mary and MushyB! MushyB keep me updated on how travel goes-good luck!!


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## Laura Way (May 25, 2009)

If you really want a Kyon puppy ask Sean who here in the states have been breeding to his dogs or have his lines as he does ship semen all over the world. You can always search k9data base too. There are breeders here in the states that have used his dogs. Personally waiting for the breeder you want to work with for years and years to come is worth it.


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## NewgoldenownerLI (Mar 9, 2015)

sns3948 said:


> Hi all,
> I'm hoping to get sone insight into choosing a breeder.
> We recently lost our GR at the age of 7 to cancer and are researching breeders that breed for standard, have clearances and also have longevity in their lines. While we are fully aware that longevity is not a guarantee, we want to do whatever we can to stack the cards in our favor.
> That being said, we have narrowed it down to Harborview Goldens in Erie, PA and Kyon Kennels in Canada.
> ...


Hello,

I see that you are from Long Island. Have you looked into Karin Fisher out in Mastic Beach? She goes by Wochia. We got out golden boy from her and two other people in my neighborhood got theirs from her as well. She is a very reputable breeder and has been breeding for many years. She can be difficult to get in touch with (no website) but our dogs have been wonderful. Bred to the standard with great personalities. Mine is a therapy dog who visits hundreds of people every week. 
I’m on the island as well and if you would like to discuss this or meet the dogs, please let me know. I’d be happy to help.


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## lfisher818 (Aug 16, 2018)

I love Harborview Goldens! Our girl Bindi will be four months tomorrow. Jenn has been nothing but awesome with answering any/all my questions. We went to her house and met prior to deciding to g with her. She met our timid German Shepherd, and she picked the perfect companion for him and us! I can’t say enough good things about her!!!


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## three retirees (Aug 31, 2018)

My condolences to your loss. My golden also passed from Hemangiosarcoma on July 5, 2018. She was spaded at 4 years old and we owned her for 2 years and 3 months. She was 9 years 3 months old when she passed. So I understand completely you need to get a long lived dog. 



I assume you have researched the cancer you Golden had. We did. We found that few intact dogs got Hemangiosarcoma at a young age. Some intact dogs did get the hemangiosarcoma, but it was at an older age, 12 years or older.


When researching the breeders, find out what the older dogs died of. Call the breeder and ask what their dogs died of, if they will tell you. This way you can more easier determine if they are really long lived dog lines or if cancer is in their lines.



Since we only adopt breeder's bitches it is harder to determine. We are looking to get at least 5 years or more from our adoptees.


All the same good luck in your search.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

I have no experience of the two breeders you mentioned, but I just finished a search with the same criteria (with longevity being my highest priority), and finally settled on Beau Geste Goldens in Massachusetts (Jan Bramhall is the breeder). Longevity can vary depending on the exact pairing, but the Beau Geste dogs in general are much longer lived, with lower cancer rates, than most others in the New England area. Her "European" lines seem to have the best longevity, but her American-line dogs still appear to have good longevity and lower than average cancer rates. It's worth taking a look at her dogs on K9Data.


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## Otter (Feb 23, 2011)

I know of Harborview. 
I have never heard a single bad thing about Harborview.
I vote Harborview.


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

Murphy is a Beau Geste dog! He is just wonderful in every way.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

sns3948 said:


> Thanks for the replies. While i appreciate input on other breeders i am really looking for experiences with either Kyon or Harborview as they are the two we are most interested in.


One daughter of my dog was just bred to Harborview's Detour( ultrasound tomorrow) and another is being bred to Audit in February. 
They are both tiny breeders- one in Connecticut and one in Maine.


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## laurenC (Sep 20, 2017)

You are closer to Poeticgold than anything. and frankly, you could not find a better breeder with nicer dogs If you tried. I would sincerely look at poeticgold and see if Jill has any litters planned. and for what its worth... Bringing in a puppy from Canada right now is insanity. I have a medical alert dog (that is well over the age of 12 weeks and getting over the border with a true service animal is a nightmare... Canada went from way too lax to out of control and turned on a dime. they clearly need to find a middle ground but I assume given history that will definitely be awhile.) I so appreciate your affinity for those two breeders but great puppies going to a companion home are hard to come by and great breeders that truly and sincerely care are even harder to come by. This forum is an abundance of knowledge that is very GR specific and is invaluable. while a lot of people won't say much against a breeder (again this community is very small) they often will not so subtly suggest another one (while the ones you have mentioned I have heard nothing but positive things about I have no personal commentary to add so im basically of no help) the golden retriever community is small and listening to the suggestions of others on here that have had lots of personal and professional interactions with different breeders is invaluable (both what they do or do not say...) Good luck in your search!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Thank you! We don't have a litter planned here until summer or next fall ( Sayer x Chaos) , but Golden Pond in Maine ( Sharon Farnum) has a beautiful litter coming with Harborview's Detour.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

laurenC said:


> You are closer to Poeticgold than anything. and frankly, you could not find a better breeder with nicer dogs If you tried. I would sincerely look at poeticgold and see if Jill has any litters planned. and for what its worth... *Bringing in a puppy from Canada right now is insanity. I have a medical alert dog (that is well over the age of 12 weeks and getting over the border with a true service animal is a nightmare... Canada went from way too lax to out of control and turned on a dime. they clearly need to find a middle ground but I assume given history that will definitely be awhile.)* I so appreciate your affinity for those two breeders but great puppies going to a companion home are hard to come by and great breeders that truly and sincerely care are even harder to come by. This forum is an abundance of knowledge that is very GR specific and is invaluable. while a lot of people won't say much against a breeder (again this community is very small) they often will not so subtly suggest another one (while the ones you have mentioned I have heard nothing but positive things about I have no personal commentary to add so im basically of no help) the golden retriever community is small and listening to the suggestions of others on here that have had lots of personal and professional interactions with different breeders is invaluable (both what they do or do not say...) Good luck in your search!



Just for the record, it was the US who made the regulation changes that affects bring pups from Canada into the US. 

https://www.cdc.gov/importation/bringing-an-animal-into-the-united-states/dogs.html
And it is possible to get the waiver - a few people on this forum have done it with relatively little trouble.


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## laurenC (Sep 20, 2017)

*correction*



Sweet Girl said:


> Just for the record, it was the US who made the regulation changes that affects bring pups from Canada into the US.
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/importation/bringing-an-animal-into-the-united-states/dogs.html
> And it is possible to get the waiver - a few people on this forum have done it with relatively little trouble.


I'm so sorry. you are correct. it was the other way a few years back (we have a house on the canadian border) and we have always traveled between the states and canada with our dogs a few years back and now have been a bit tough.


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## Jane (Jan 2, 2013)

I'm sure you've long since gotten a dog, and I wish you the best of luck with him or her. Enjoy your Golden : ) 

If anyone else is checking this thread because they are looking for a dog with "longevity" genes, don't be certain that it will be Kyon. Our intact and much-beloved Kyon dog (male) was diagnosed with hemangiosarcoma at age seven. We were able to keep him with us, with good quality of life, for almost a year before we had to let him go. 

We're in our very late sixties, so always knew he'd be our last Golden; how we had looked forward to those last five or six years that we will not have. I'm sorry if I sound angry; the grief of losing your last Golden to an early cancer is...hard.

Sean assured me, back in our first conversation in 2013, that there was "virtually no cancer in our lines." I learned recently that my dog's litter brother, who had been one of their stud dogs, died of leukemia at age five. I would challenge you to find that information on their website or an announcement of his death--one of their own stud dogs--on their Facebook page. However, you will certainly find a lot of congratulatory messages there to customers whose Kyon dog is turning 15, with happy photos, or condolence messages to owners who have lost their 16-year-old to "old age" though they'd been healthy throughout their long lives. 

I haven't seen a condolence message, however, to an owner who lost their seven-year-old Kyon dog to cancer. I seriously doubt that we are the only ones.

So, buyer beware. I did so want to believe Sean back eight years ago; why, it seems like only yesterday that my sweet dog was just a puppy. I don't blame anyone who tries to find a Golden with "longevity lines." Sadly, we all know why.


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## three retirees (Aug 31, 2018)

I am sorry to hear of your lose. I too lost my girl to hemangiosarcoma. The breeder told us it was just a fatty tumor. Wrong. My wife is 72 now and I am 68. We get rehome senior goldens who are 7+ years old too. Maybe that is a option for you to.

Three retirees


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## Jane (Jan 2, 2013)

three retirees said:


> I am sorry to hear of your lose. I too lost my girl to hemangiosarcoma. The breeder told us it was just a fatty tumor. Wrong. My wife is 72 now and I am 68. We get rehome senior goldens who are 7+ years old too. Maybe that is a option for you to.
> 
> Three retirees


Thanks for your thoughts. I really admire what you are doing--you must be wonderfully resilient and committed.

Unfortunately although I'm just 69, I've had four joint replacements and can no longer walk a large dog (we are not into any kind of collar that provides unpleasant experiences for our dog). This means my husband, 70 but quite fit, must do all of the walking, and after this tragedy, he's not willing to get another dog. We do have a fenced yard, but--Goldens must be given exercise, even older ones.

We've lost two Goldens now--fortunately, our first, who certainly did not have the pedigree that our Crispin did (Crispin was our Kyon dog, and a beautiful and gentle dog he was)--but he was a wonderful, ebullient dog, full of life, and at least our Jasper lived a long life, a month shy of his 13th birthday. 

We got to see the all of the seasons of a dog's life from puppyhood to the older years; such precious memories (I'm tearing up!). 

I'm so sad that our Crispin only enjoyed seven years of cancer-free years on this planet, though I'm grateful that with treatment he enjoyed another year of sniffing the wind, etc. -- reasonably tolerable treatment, except for the initial surgery (which had two incision sites) and one doxorubicin treatment, after which we said "enough" and used a more gentle, daily small chemotherapy dose. 

But--with each of these dogs, a little part of me went with them; losing Crispin at a reasonably young age was--devastating. Dogs don't get much time on the earth, and he lost five of them, nearly half of his life. He never got old...he did have treatment side effects, but never that gentle greying of the muzzle that so endeared me to my older dog...

Right now I've gotten involved in outside activities to keep me busy--president of our new HOA, which is a handful, but uses my skills from the career I retired from. It helps. But honestly, my heart needs time to mend, and I'm not sure my husband will ever agree to get another dog. We've had our two beautiful and beloved guys. All things in time, you know? And for us, this is the season of...grief.


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