# Not knowing what is going on



## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

No one has any idea? It is like spirit is to whimpy to bite Cambridge, to stop her,so he takes it out on poor kooper. I have used a shock collar on Cambridge, but if it is off ,she still bites spirit,how to stop all of this?


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

How old are Spirit and Cambridge? I am assuming Kooper ia a male dog? How does he respond to Spirit biting him?


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## TrailDogs (Aug 15, 2011)

goldensrbest said:


> I have spoke before about Cambridge, biting, pulling at spirit ,sometimes it is when I play ball with him, sometimes she just does it,when there is no playing ball with him,she actually can grab ahold of his fur,and pulls him,drags him along, I have not been able to stop this, now I have another thing happening, spirit gets so aggravated at her, that he turns and mouths her, not bitting her, but then turns on kooper,my soon to be 11 year old,and trys to bite him, I have to stop spirit, WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?


I have a littermate to Cambridge and this sounds very much like she is trying to engage Spirit in play behavior. This is what my girl does when she is playing with the other dogs. My other dogs reciprocate and race, roll around and play bitey games with her. Unfortunately Spirit does not seem to want to interact with Cambridge and is redirecting his frustration at your older dog.
Cambridge is a young energetic, very intelligent dog and needs something to do. She is looking to the other dogs as an outlet for her needs.
Is there any way you could take her to an obedience class or some sort of training class where you and Cambridge can work together, even a tricks training class. It would give her some mental stimulation. Or another dog she can run with to burn off some energy would help.
This winter has been hard on both humans and dogs in the northeast with all the snow and bad weather so she also may be more frustrated than usual.
Please do not use an e-collar for this behavior.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

TrailDogs said:


> I have a littermate to Cambridge and this sounds very much like she is trying to engage Spirit in play behavior. This is what my girl does when she is playing with the other dogs. My other dogs reciprocate and race, roll around and play bitey games with her. Unfortunately Spirit does not seem to want to interact with Cambridge and is redirecting his frustration at your older dog.
> Cambridge is a young energetic, very intelligent dog and needs something to do. She is looking to the other dogs as an outlet for her needs.
> Is there any way you could take her to an obedience class or some sort of training class where you and Cambridge can work together, even a tricks training class. It would give her some mental stimulation. Or another dog she can run with to burn off some energy would help.
> This winter has been hard on both humans and dogs in the northeast with all the snow and bad weather so she also may be more frustrated than usual.
> Please do not use an e-collar for this behavior.


Spirit and her run around the yard and play together, but it is the biting ,grabing a hold of him, that I want to stop, I forgot that you have cambridges brother. Spirit yelps, when she does this.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

This has been a real problem, I don't want any of my dogs getting hurt, any ideas how to stop this?


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Let her drag a leash around, when she starts this behavior pick up the leash and physically remove her from the other dog. (a shock collar is not the right way to deal with this, I sincerely hope you stop using that on her.)

She does need more stimulation, training sessions when she is getting wound up, a long walk, teach her some tricks and have her perform them to break the cycle.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

We walk a lot, several days a week, 3 miles, to 5 miles, been doing this for a few years, she really hurts spirit, in the summer I have tried a long leash, a few times, I will try if it ever gets to be spring, but sure can't do it in the winter.


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## gold4paws (Mar 29, 2012)

Walking is great, but maybe she needs a good daily "run". If she retrieves, throwing a ball or toy, getting her to chase and run will take the edge off. I have a busy girl that just lost her best bud and now is an only dog. Until I find another dog to add to my household, I have to take up the slack and make sure my girls gets vigorous daily exercise. 

It sounds as if you do not have a compatible playmate with a similar energy level as your girl , so you may need to give her more one on one time to burn off some of it.

There is no easy way to do this and I do not think using a collar is a good idea. Maybe this is about genetics and not being a bad dog. She can't help who she is.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

goldensrbest said:


> We walk a lot, several days a week, 3 miles, to 5 miles, been doing this for a few years, she really hurts spirit, in the summer I have tried a long leash, a few times, I will try if it ever gets to be spring, but sure can't do it in the winter.


I was picturing this happening inside, so a regular length leash would work. If it's outside, then go get her and bring away from Spirit for a time out. If her play is stopped when she does that, she will figure out why eventually.


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## caseypooh (Dec 30, 2010)

We have Jessie whose almost 3 and now Jake 11 weeks. Jessie lives for the ball and whenever we throw the ball inside for Jessie, Jake starts the bitey play. What we do after a little bit is separate play so Jessie gets her energy out with the ball. She has more energy. Either my husband or me play with Jake and the other throws the ball for Jessie.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Okay, this has happened 4 times, in the past 9 months, just happened today, Cambridge started to play with kooper, koop is 11 years old, Cambridge 3, spirit got upset at Cambridge, but instead of going after her,he went after kooper, mouthing mostly, no bite marks, but he was pissed, spirit was, what is going on ? Sometimes, he gets pissed at Cambridge because she starts to play bite him, and he goes after poor old kooper.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

Do not use a shock collar. Using this tool on a dog that is not trained to it by a person that is not trained on using it, will damage the dogs behavior! Good dogs can be permanently hurt like this!


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Not using it any longer, never used it on spirit,or kooper. I want to know why spirit is going after kooper,when he is upset at Cambridge.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

You may need to monitor the outdoor play and only allow two of them out together, instead of the three of them. The dynamics are off and since you don't know what exactly is setting these incidents off, it will be easier to let two of them outside to play at a time.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

It is like spirit gets upset at Cambridge, but he takes it out on poor kooper. This time it was right in front of me, in the house.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Is there any dog behaviorist on here?


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## Doug (Jul 17, 2010)

I believe a behaviourist really needs to see these dogs in person to know what is really going on.

Are we talking about mouthing behaviour of dogs at play? 
or are we talking about real aggression issues? 

From your description it sounds as though they are playing too roughly? 
Young dogs want to play with everyone at any opportunity especially when it is ball time and the excitement level is raised. They will even try to play with older dogs. To me it sounds as though Cambridge is wanting to play with Kooper and Spirit is jealous and wants to join in and play get Kooper's attention instead. I believe is up to us as pack leader to stick up for our older dogs as some won't do it for themselves. I think that you are right for wanting to stop this behaviour.

I think that you need to go back to step one and treat them as if they were babies. 
You need to watch them consistently. If you can see a dog even _think_ about playing roughly with Kooper tell them no, block them and redirect them before things get out of hand. 
You need to find out what will make them stop and listen. It is different for every pup. You may need to use a can of coins to get their attention, for us it was a smelly rubber toy that made an odd noise that got Hudson's attention. Removing them with a leash is a great idea but I worry about collars with dogs who like to wrestle that can get twisted in dogs jaws and cause suffocation. Things won't magically get better over time they need to learn a new pattern of what is acceptable and what is not.

Dogs are like children they want to play but they also need to know the boundaries and consequences for their behaviour. I hope that you find a great behaviourist in your area to help you out with your lovely pack.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

The play thing with Cambridge, with what she does to spirit, is one thing, but with what spirit is doing to kooper,is just not what I like , I talked to a breeder of goldens,and though she has never had this happen, she has heard of it,she said it is a pack thing, not liking this reaction spirit is having, koop is over 11 years old,a real sweet heart, spirit is 4 years old,both males, they neither one has had much to do with each other, I have noticed that with my males, in the past, they tend to play with just the females.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I agree a whole lot with many things written, and especially Fostermom's point about managing the dogs carefully so they do not practice / rehearse this situation while you are figuring it out. They need a hike/ walk every day, and maybe some down time away from each other too. Maine has a few good behaviorists and so very many good trainers. I do not know what part of the state you are in, but I think someone would need to evaluate the dogs in person and make a plan with you. It is not uncommon for dogs to redirect aggression& frustration on a weaker third party, but with no bites from anyone, wonder if it is frustrated playing that could be helped by good mental and physical exercise for the two younger dogs daily?


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Yes I am out with them, because of the busy road I live on, Cambridge goes on long walks, anywhere from 3 to 4 times a week, spirit, not as much, but we play a lot of ball,he loves ball playing, all this started a year ago,when we moved here,to this house, and mike passed away.


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