# Recall... is it possible to ruin your dog?



## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

I've tried everything possible to get my dog to come on command. He did at first, then got sick of those treats, so I had to try something better, and now he doesn't want those...

I've given up, he doesn't go off leash in public and when he's free running in the yard he can just come inside when ever he wants... LOL.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

I think it's possible to get both dogs coming like lightening... unfortunately I have no idea how you would do such a thing. :doh: Sorry, I'm mostly writing to wish you luck and suggest you track down FlyingQuizini (Steph)... I'm sure she could give you some great tips. One suggestion, it might help if you give a little more background on how you've trained/reinforced/practiced (whatever word you want to use) recalls in the past... but someone with more knowledge could probably ask more pointed questions to get the the root of your problem. Good luck!!

Julie and Jersey


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

I hear ya Michelle... but I really desire a good recall so that "some day" in the future she can enjoy at least "some" of her life off leash.


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## Celeigh (Nov 29, 2007)

You are so funny! I've got one just like yours! In Fergus's case (where it's been my job to teach him) "cookie" is the only thing that works and even that is spotty at best. Sigh. The bright spot is Lily, the perfect rescue - she came equipped with recall installed.


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

Thanks Jersey's Mom... we always use the word "come". Our training so far was one person in one room and one in another... call the dog back and forth giving a treat for coming. Then we added in putting her on a 40' and saying "come" and if she didn't pull her in fast, get her to sit and then treat. It's never gotten any better. She'd just as soon ignore me. No treat is really "worth it" to her... unless it's supper or something really good like that. She'd just rather be doing whatever she wants to do. I'd love to give her more yard time, but she digs, destroys my garden, eats her own poop, etc. She's 20 months now and should be off treats (for the most part)... I really think I've ruined her.


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

Celeigh said:


> You are so funny! I've got one just like yours! In Fergus's case (where it's been my job to teach him) "cookie" is the only thing that works and even that is spotty at best. Sigh. The bright spot is Lily, the perfect rescue - she came equipped with recall installed.


hahaha... lucky you to have Lily!!! Perhaps she will help Fergus's recall.


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## Bogart'sMom (Sep 16, 2005)

Dogs learn from eachother, meaning if your young dog sees how the older is ignoring you at recall, he thinks oh I don't have to come to her either.
My theory is also if you keep repeading the name over and over when calling they just tune you out as an anoying bytone.
Also never punish your dog or be harsh with him when he does come eventualy you don't want him to be afraid of you to come to you.
Also after you call your dog do you right away put him on the leash? Like call him once leash him right away? During your walk call him to you, give him a treat and then release him again. Make it so that he doesn't know when he goes on the leash. Make it fun for him to come to you but if you see that he is sniffing something really interesting and you kind of know that he is not going to listen to you first time calling then leave the come comand for when his attention can be on you so he doesn't learn to ignore you, I hope I make sense. Stay positive and upbeat, don't yell or be frustrated. 
Have a good time training,


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I have the same problem with Brady. 

In the house, he has great recall with me - outside - it is a whole different game. BUT he has 100% recall with my husband!! I am the one that feeds him, trains, takes him on outings, but he adores my husband.


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

Wow... I know it's frustrating but at "least" Brady will listen to one of you!!! Geddy just ignores us both!


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Okay this is what I woulld suggest.

1 - Only practice recall while dog is on leash or a long line. This way he does not have an option as you can always reel him in like a catfish. Once he gets to you reward and calebrate even if you had to reel in - you want him to associate being by you as REAL GOOD

2 - Once he is totally reliable on leash try doing it off leash for very short distances. As he is more and more reliable you can lengthen out the recall. Again when he gewts to you it has to be a good experience for the dog

3 - If there are more hiccups than successes go back to number one. It will get better. And prqctice does make perfect so do it every day.

As already stated NEVER correct, scold or punish in any way when the dog comes to you - NEVER! If you do he will think everytime you call him he will be in for the unpleasant experience.

There are many ways to teach a reliable recall this is just one. The one thing that most will have in common is that you need to be the most exciting happy thing for the pup. This can also work for an older dog.

Good luck.


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

The mistake I made was I taught a very regimented sit, then stay, then come in larger and larger increments. They both did this drill perfectly at one time. But when we are hiking off leash there is no sit or stay first and they get confused. Or their prey drives kick in so they don't want to. I never have them off leash where there are any cars, and they keep me in their sights, but they still don't come all the time. Abby is way better than Finn, though. <at everything, he is such a lughead>

Good luck on your retraining, I'd go back to the beginnning and try again.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I ruined "Come" for mine. They were very well trained on recall. Then I got lazy about it and they learned they could come when they felt like it. Instead of retraining "Come" I worked diligently with "Front". So when they are in the yard loose and I say"Front" they know I mean business. If I say Come in a casual manner , they come but not hell or high water.
It works for us. Not PC but OK for us.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

My Comments in Red:

Thanks Jersey's Mom... we always use the word "come". Our training so far was one person in one room and one in another... call the dog back and forth giving a treat for coming. Then we added in putting her on a 40' and saying "come" and if she didn't pull her in fast, get her to sit and then treat. IF YOU SIT AND THEN TREAT, YOU'RE PAYING THE SIT AND NOT THE COMING PART! REWARD LIKE CRAZY JUST 'CUZ THE DOG RAN TO YOU. DON'T MAKE IT SO FORMAL! It's never gotten any better. She'd just as soon ignore me. No treat is really "worth it" to her... unless it's supper or something really good like that. She'd just rather be doing whatever she wants to do. I'd love to give her more yard time, but she digs, destroys my garden, eats her own poop, etc. She's 20 months now and should be off treats (for the most part) WHY SHOULD SHE BE OFF TREATS? I REWARD RECALLS WITH TREATS A LOT. QUIZ IS 4 AND ZOIE IS 7. IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT BEHAVIOR THEY HAVE. I'M NEVER GONNA TAKE IT FOR GRANTED.... I really think I've ruined her.

I promise that I'll do a full post on how I teach recall and I'll try and get some video of some of the steps... I'm just so freakin' busy and now even more so 'cuz I'm getting ready to go out of town for three weeks. But several people have asked and I do think I have pretty good recalls on both of my dogs - even the Whippet! In general, I think the biggest mistake people make is training for a little bit and then going into the real world and "testing" the dog. Instead, train like crazy on your leash (I don't even use a long leash, just 6') at home in the house, back yard, front yard, park, on walks, in busy areas, around mild distractions, then more distractions, etc. BEFORE you even think of actually going off leash. And when I'm training a recall, I never use the word outside of training (when I can back it up with a leash and treats) unless I'm willing to bet $100 that I can get the dog to instantly come to me. And for every bet you lose, you then have to do 100 easily rewarded successful trials of training the recall back on the leash. Check out www.kathysdao.com and go to the articles link. She's got two great recall training articles.

Maybe I can get video up over the weekend... just no promises right now 'cuz I'm insanely busy! But I will do it eventually!


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Oops, sorry to kind of put your on the spot when you're busy Steph.... hope things calm down soon and you have a great trip!

Julie and Jersey


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Jersey's Mom said:


> Oops, sorry to kind of put your on the spot when you're busy Steph.... hope things calm down soon and you have a great trip!
> 
> Julie and Jersey


Oh no worries... I've been slacking on posting it for a while - since the end of April when I was getting ready to leave for beach camp! I'll get it up there eventually!


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

On top of Stephie's post, we taught the dogs a different word that meant NOW! Come works, but it's generally not instantaneous. When I realized that I had already ruined that word (it had no urgency), I started using a) different treats (hot dogs for us), and b) different word (Here). "Here" means stop what you're doing and come here now...cause we have HOT DOGS! :lol: That's a high value treat to them and they really will make a beeline for us.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Ardeagold said:


> On top of Stephie's post, we taught the dogs a different word that meant NOW! Come works, but it's generally not instantaneous. When I realized that I had already ruined that word (it had no urgency), I started using a) different treats (hot dogs for us), and b) different word (Here). "Here" means stop what you're doing and come here now...cause we have HOT DOGS! :lol: That's a high value treat to them and they really will make a beeline for us.


That's great! Yeah, I usually suggest teaching a new word if the dog has already learned to ignore of come as he pleases with the word "come". My students have used:

Here
Home
Aqui
And some exotic things like:

Zip
Bosco
Disco
Happy Hour
Free Beer

Really doesn't matter WHAT you use, b/c you're just teaching the dog that when he hears that word, get to the human quick b/c a party is going to happen!


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

There are these things called 'puppy recalls'...have you heard about that? It's hard to explain, but I could possibly get a video of it for you...or if anyone else knows what I'm talking about??


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Free beer!! I love that... if I wasn't worried about screwing Jersey up I think I'd throw that one in, but he's doing well now and doesn't need the added confusion. I'll have to remember that for my next dog!

Julie and Jersey


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## Griffyn'sMom (Mar 22, 2007)

That all sounds fine and well but what if you have a dog that's not treat motivated? When I'm on the trail with Griff he's so excited that he usually takes and drops any treat I give him. (And no - he hasn't eaten before we go either) :doh:


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Griffyn'sMom said:


> That all sounds fine and well but what if you have a dog that's not treat motivated? When I'm on the trail with Griff he's so excited that he usually takes and drops any treat I give him. (And no - he hasn't eaten before we go either) :doh:


A reward does not have to be a treat. A reward can be a favorite toy, a belly rub, whatever is that "magic" maker for your dog. And it is YOUR responsiblity to figure out what that is.


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## 3459 (Dec 27, 2007)

This is why I come here. There is nowhere else I can tap into this kind of expertise. And there are great people here who care about each other and have a desire to lend a helping hand, a word of encouragement, or a pat on the back to the beginner or less knowledgeable. Thank you all for what you bring to this forum. :You_Rock_


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Griffyn'sMom said:


> That all sounds fine and well but what if you have a dog that's not treat motivated? When I'm on the trail with Griff he's so excited that he usually takes and drops any treat I give him. (And no - he hasn't eaten before we go either) :doh:


Well, ALL dogs are motivated by food to some degree.... or they'd be dead! Seriously though, I know the kind of dog you're talking about. It is only on the trail that he snubs treats? What about on a regular walk around town? For dogs that won't take treats outside of the house (due to being overly stimulated by the enviornment) I usually start by seeing to it that outside of the house is the ONLY place the dog is offered food --- as in, no more meals at home -- all eating opportunities happen while on walks and the food comes from my hand. If that means the dog skips a meal or four, then so be it. And sometimes it's just about finding what treat motivates your dog. I've gone pretty high value with some dogs to find something that really blows their hair back --- cooked chicken, lunch meats, boiled chicken gizzards, etc.

Or, like Julie's dad said, it doesn't HAVE to be food, it's just that food (of a certain value) is usually one of the easiest rewards we have at our disposal -- easiest being that noboby had to teach your dog that food is good -- he was born knowing that. If your dog lives to play tug or retreive, or have his belly rubbed, or whatever, we can use that, but we want to have SOMETHING that totally rocks the dogs world.

The other idea is that if your dog is too overstimulated by the environment while on the trail, on the trail isn't the best place to initially train the recall. Go somewhere that's a bit more boring for the dog -- or hang out on the trail for a while and let the dog saturate to the environment and then see if he'll take treats.

You just NEED to have something to offer your dog that's more exciting to him than the environment. Until you figure out what that is, or more to a less stimulating environment, you're fighting a losing battle trying to train.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

The first thing I want when training a reacall is when I say 'Trace' that Trace picks up his head and looks for me...Because if I dont have that attention...then I havent got a prayer!
So when I call their name I reward...with food 90% of the time, 10% of the time with a toss of a toy or with a silly noise (for some strange reason all of my dogs love the 'raspeberry' sound), a smile 100% of the time...

Another really common mistake is being greedy when you train...
Thinking if they can recall 10' outdoors...that they can recall 40'
Or seeing that the dog is getting tired, distracted, stressed and ignoring it and asking them to do 'just one more'. That will bite you everytime


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

Wow... seriously I'm blown away!!! THANKS to everyone who has given advice!!!! There is some great info here, and I need to sit back and re-read this a few times to soak it all in!!! I've thought about using hotdogs... do you microwave them to rawhides or just use as is?? Sounds like I really need to practice this "every" day... which I certainly don't do now. And it seems obvious to me now that I have not been using a rewarding enough treat for the kids... so hotdogs may be the way to go. Petting does not do it for Geddy... If I go to reach out for her for a scratch or pet she backs away. Anyways... thanks a whole BUNCH... lots to absorbe here!!!!


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## beargroomer (Jan 2, 2008)

gaius has very good recall. he's only 8 months. i think with time, it'll only get better. i can get him to make a screeching U-turn and run back to me when he is running towards a squirrel or another dog. i think he's entering the selective deafness stage lately, so i'm not calling him off in really tricky and tempting situations for now. i don't want him to learn that it's ok to ignore my recall. i still practice when i'm 100% sure he'll come back and reinforcing it like crazy. i never repeat his name or the recall word, and even if he doesn't respond RIGHT away, i still praise like crazy when he DOES come.
we practiced recall with him from the day he came home at 14 weeks, and it's always been pretty good. after we took a class with the master (steph. ) his recall got even better. we had always treated gaius with yummy treats, but it was from stephanie we learned to make the rewards HUGE and unpredictable. (i still treat every "here" with a handful of something yummy, but once in a while, i'll throw in a jackpot treat of something huge like a whole hotdog or a hamburger patty, to keep him guessing.) the kathy dao link steph posted is awesome. 
i'm sure with practice, you can teach both your dogs great recall. you will definitely want to change your recall word, though.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

LibertyME said:


> The first thing I want when training a reacall is when I say 'Trace' that Trace picks up his head and looks for me...Because if I dont have that attention...then I havent got a prayer!
> So when I call their name I reward...with food 90% of the time, 10% of the time with a toss of a toy or with a silly noise (for some strange reason all of my dogs love the 'raspeberry' sound), a smile 100% of the time...
> 
> Another really common mistake is being greedy when you train...
> ...


Yup. great advice there! I play the "name game" with Quiz all the time!


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## norabrown (Jul 20, 2007)

LibertyME said:


> The first thing I want when training a reacall is when I say 'Trace' that Trace picks up his head and looks for me...Because if I dont have that attention...then I havent got a prayer!
> So when I call their name I reward...with food 90% of the time, 10% of the time with a toss of a toy or with a silly noise (for some strange reason all of my dogs love the 'raspeberry' sound), a smile 100% of the time...
> 
> 
> ...


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## Tailer'sFolks (Feb 27, 2007)

cubbysan said:


> I have the same problem with Brady.
> 
> In the house, he has great recall with me - outside - it is a whole different game. BUT he has 100% recall with my husband!! I am the one that feeds him, trains, takes him on outings, but he adores my husband.


Ditto!

Tailer listens to me most of the time, but he does decide he has to go visit the neighbors, then come back to me...all the neighbors love him, so he does his social call then back by my side...

We did do one Obedience Class and the instructor said to practice recall and an emergency recall, a dozen times a day every day, and before you know it, both will works!

Good Luck!


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## Tailer'sFolks (Feb 27, 2007)

Griffyn'sMom said:


> That all sounds fine and well but what if you have a dog that's not treat motivated? When I'm on the trail with Griff he's so excited that he usually takes and drops any treat I give him. (And no - he hasn't eaten before we go either) :doh:


"Ditto"

Tailer will spit out fresh cut rare roast beef, turkey, smoked turkey, cheese, ham...just doesn't care about the food...but hand him his tennis ball and all is well...

I carry a tennis ball in my pants pocket, yep it looks funny, but it does work! Best Treat Ever!


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## Goldilocks (Jun 3, 2007)

GoldenLover84 said:


> I've tried everything possible to get my dog to come on command. He did at first, then got sick of those treats, so I had to try something better, and now he doesn't want those...
> 
> I've given up, he doesn't go off leash in public and when he's free running in the yard he can just come inside when ever he wants... LOL.


OMG! I think Pippa has met her match here! Frustrating isn't it?


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