# Front leg pain



## sdain31y (Jul 5, 2010)

I'd posted this in the joint supplement thread first, but figured since I was really asking for input I'd report it here. Sorry.

We've used Cosequin DS for Jazz since she was about 6 mths old and between that, the fish oil, Standard process whole body supplement and immune boster (read a recommendation in Clean Run) and now Dogzymes from Nature's Pharmacy it appears something is helping and/or she's grown out of her issues (at least temporarily) with her hips.

Enter Darby. He was thin and underweight when we rescued him and that's why we started them on Dogzymes. I also give him the Standard Process whole body supplement. But....and here's the problem, it seems everytime I try to put him on the Cosequin it appears to upset his stomach and he vomits or has very soft stools. I've even tried to only give him a 1/4 of a tablet with similar results.

So since he's now having a lot more front shoulder/leg pain (he's limped occassionally on and off since we first got him. He's now 7 - 8 mths), I really want to have him on joint supplements. Any suggestions/recommendations other then Cosequin or the like? I tried fish oil before too, but think the resulting soft stoools were from giardia not the fish oil so I might try that again next.

He's got a vet appt this coming Sat, but its obvious for the first time his leg/shoulder is really bothering him. :doh: I can't feel any warm areas nor can I get him to flinch or whimper on manipulation, but he's starting to seriously favor that leg. <sigh> Its always something with the babies, isn't it? 

The vet has given me some pain killers to have on hand for Jazz's hips, if we need them but I am hesitant to give them to him since I don't want to worsen a problem because he doesn't feel the pain. But I hate to see him uncomfortable. We have tramadol and deramaxx.

Thoughts or suggestions? Thanks..............


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

My old guy's internist and orthopedic vet recommended I try SAM-e in half the human dose. They said some people have gotten as much relief as using Deramaxx or Rimadyl so we are trying it. 
He's just been on it a little while and they said it could take 3 months to work, so we don't have results yet.
If you do try it do NOT give tramadol with it (I just found that out).

I hope your little boy gets better.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

My only concern is that giving him something before his appointment may mask his symptoms, thus not allowing the vet to make an accurate diagnosis. As was pointed out in an earlier thread, some medications have quite a long half life in the system, and skew all sorts of results.

How old is Darby?


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## sdain31y (Jul 5, 2010)

Darby's between 7 - 8 mths old now. If it doesn't get a lot better today, I think I'll call and change his appointment. Out Vet is fantastic about getting them in if they are hurting.


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## Rob's GRs (Feb 25, 2007)

I just went through a very long bout with my Liam with Tendonitis in the shoulders. I am not sure if this could be the same thing you have but it takes many months to heal and requires keeping the dog resting. Your vet will have a better idea if this could be an issue but I just wanted to through this out there for you.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

At that age, it could be pano, which is probably the best case scenario, since they generally just outgrow it.

But that could also be the age that a bad joint problem shows up. Either way, I'd be at the vet soon.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I agree with Brian-at his age it could definitely be pano. Especially if he is now being better nourished than he was before. Pano would be one of the best possible diagnoses (other than just a strain or sprain).

You should certainly rule out the possibility of other joint issues, such as elbow dysplasia, and hopefully it will not be something like that.

Good luck and keep us posted.


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## GINGIOLA (Oct 14, 2010)

I always use CONDROSTRESS for my 10 years old Ginger and there's a CONDROGEN for puppy and adult dog. The productor is INNOVET. 
I don't know if this product is available in the USA.
For Ginger is a great product.

Federico


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## sdain31y (Jul 5, 2010)

Thanks! He's got an appointment with the vet at 4pm today. Keeping my fingers crossed and doing some research on pano.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Praying*

Praying FOR Darby's appt. today!!!


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Good luck with Mr Darby's appt today. Hope it is just the pano and not anything more serious. Give the pups a big hug and hope we get to see you next month at the tennis ball bonanza.


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## sdain31y (Jul 5, 2010)

Thanks for all the good thoughts. We just returned from the vet's (whom both I and the dogs absolutely adore ). She immediately thought pano when she heard his symptoms and so she did x-rays. Unfortunately (or fortunately - depends on how you look at it, I guess) she said that his bones look good and she didn't see anything that suggested pano. She also said he does not exhibit any pain on manipulation of his elbows or shoulders. Another good thing. Since his appetite is depressed and he doesn't seem to have a whole lot of energy, we've decided to treat him conservatively with duramaxx (35mg once a day to start) and restrict most of his activities for a couple of weeks. And see how that goes. 

She did mention he appears to hyperflex his wrists a bit too, especially on one leg but they don't seem painful. We'll have to watch that to.

I'm going to look into the greenies with joint supplements and maybe some of the chews? I can't take glucosamine or chondrotin without stomach upset either, so I feel his pain!

Hopefully, he'll be 100% soon. I hate to think he's hurting.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Pano is very hard to visualize on x-ray. It can be happening even if it can't be seen. 

I don't know if I missed this, but has he been tested for TBDs?


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## sdain31y (Jul 5, 2010)

Tippykayak, he hasn't been tested for TBDs but that's on tap for the next visit in about 10 days to rule them out. Also, I have read that pano is sometimes hard to see on an x-ray that's why she's treating him as if the x-rays were positive. 

Today he doesn't seem to be favoring either of his front legs, but his lack of appetite is really worrying me. He doesn't have a lot of reserves - he's only 45lb so not eating is troublesome. He also had a really wet burp after drinking alot of water this morning so I gave him a pepcid. I'd read that others gave a pepcid before the duramaxx to help coat their stomach. He's appetite has been decreasing for the last 3 or 4 days. I mentioned it to the Vet and she's aware of it too. His stools for the most part are nice and firm although I've seen a few that are softer too. I hate to start changing food since his coat, etc is looking so good on the Blue Buffalo Basic turkey. Ive read that food with lower protein levels might help with the pano, but haven't really done the research on if or what to switch to yet. 

Always something, isn't it?


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## GINGIOLA (Oct 14, 2010)

sorry, but what is pano??
I don't find this word on dictionary
Thank's

Federico


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

sdain31y said:


> Tippykayak, he hasn't been tested for TBDs but that's on tap for the next visit in about 10 days to rule them out. Also, I have read that pano is sometimes hard to see on an x-ray that's why she's treating him as if the x-rays were positive.
> 
> Today he doesn't seem to be favoring either of his front legs, but his lack of appetite is really worrying me. He doesn't have a lot of reserves - he's only 45lb so not eating is troublesome. He also had a really wet burp after drinking alot of water this morning so I gave him a pepcid. I'd read that others gave a pepcid before the duramaxx to help coat their stomach. He's appetite has been decreasing for the last 3 or 4 days. I mentioned it to the Vet and she's aware of it too. His stools for the most part are nice and firm although I've seen a few that are softer too. I hate to start changing food since his coat, etc is looking so good on the Blue Buffalo Basic turkey. Ive read that food with lower protein levels might help with the pano, but haven't really done the research on if or what to switch to yet.
> 
> Always something, isn't it?


I definitely would not have him in anything but an LBP blend if pano is a concern. Too many calories and too much calcium and phosphorus have been shown to contribute to bone growth problems in fast growing dogs.

There's a test called SNAP 4Dx that gives results on the three biggest TBDs in 1/2 hour. The longer test can be used for more reliable results if you think you're getting a false negative, but the vet should be able to do the quick test for quick answers.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

GINGIOLA said:


> sorry, but what is pano??
> I don't find this word on dictionary
> Thank's
> 
> Federico


panosteitis


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## GINGIOLA (Oct 14, 2010)

thankyou

Federico


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## sdain31y (Jul 5, 2010)

"I definitely would not have him in anything but an LBP blend if pano is a concern." ??? Is that low balanced protein? The Blue he's on is Turkey Basic and I beleive one of the lower protein foods:

Crude Protein22.0% minCrude Fat12.0% minCrude Fiber5.0% maxMoisture10.0% maxCalcium1.0% minPhosphorus0.9% minOmega 3 Fatty Acids*0.9% minOmega 6 Fatty Acids*2.0% min
*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.

He's definitely not getting too many calories with his current appetite, but I am willing to switch to another food if it'd help. I've been reading previous threads and haven't found another food that is lower protien yet. He's a very slim boy.

I'll ask for the SNAP 4Dx test when we go back, if he's not completely on the mend.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

sdain31y said:


> "I definitely would not have him in anything but an LBP blend if pano is a concern." ??? Is that low balanced protein? The Blue he's on is Turkey Basic and I beleive one of the lower protein foods:
> 
> Crude Protein22.0% minCrude Fat12.0% minCrude Fiber5.0% maxMoisture10.0% maxCalcium1.0% minPhosphorus0.9% minOmega 3 Fatty Acids*0.9% minOmega 6 Fatty Acids*2.0% min
> *Not recognized as an essential nutrient by AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.
> ...


Large Breed Puppy food, sorry. While there's no legal definition, most LBP blends have lower calories and lower ratios of calcium and phosphorus in order to slow growth. That's a switch I would personally make in your situation, though I wouldn't expect it to "cure" the pano quickly.

I recall reading some good studies debunking the protein connection to pano, so I wouldn't worry so much about that so long as the protein was in a normal range.


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