# This Forum Is Not a Substitute for a Vet!



## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I am so glad you posted this. I have been thinking the same thing for a while.
Thank you!


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Ditto all that! If your dog is so sick and its something that YOU yourself wouldn't hesitate to seek help for, do the same for your pet. You lose precious moments if you wait for what others would do. These things include but not limited to..seizures, bleeding alot, severe vomiting or retching without bringing anything up, a limb hanging or very swollen, unable to get up, hit by car, eye issues (yes..eyes ..they will go bad very very quickly and you dont want your dog to be blind).


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## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

Thank you for this! There are so many threads that I'm hesitant to even read because I know I will stress out for the poor dog.

This really should be a sticky...with neon lights flashing if possible.


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

Thanks for posting a reminder- this forum is a great resource but sometimes when I see some threads I just smack my head and ask myself why aren't you at the vet right now. When Beamer ate all that prednisone one morning you bet your butt I didn't even shower before running him to my vet let alone did I post about it until after I had been there and back.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Totally agree with this!


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

I've also wondered why someone would ignore the advice of their vet and make decisions on diet (how much to feed, etc.) based on what someone says on the Internet. That does not mean the advice on the Internet is bad, but the vet who has actually met the dog is likely a better source of guidance on this. 


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Great post! 



Nairb said:


> I've also wondered why someone would ignore the advice of their vet and make decisions on diet (how much to feed, etc.) based on what someone says on the Internet...



I think that diet and how much to feed would be one of the subjects I feel totally comfortable with the forum helping with. The only aspect of diet that I wouldn't give advice on is prescription diets. They may have what seems to be crappy ingredients, but they're designed for specific issues and they do their job well. Most other vet related issues, no. I read a thread yesterday that one poster stated that the OP didn't need to go to the ER and that the dog would be fine until morning. That's a slippery slope to make such a definitive statement. I wish I would have posted to go to the ER if they felt it was warranted. I will from now on. 

Giving thoughts before a vet appointment or after a vet appointment is fine, IMO. But instead of a vet appointment? No, never.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Thank you Tippy. I've had that same thought alot recently.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

kwhit said:


> Great post!
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I was referring to a few specific examples, where people were wondering why their 10 week old puppy was so hungry, yet they were only feeding him/her 1 cup of food per day based on something they read online. I would assume they had discussed diet with a vet by that point. If not, they should have. 


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## Wendy427 (Apr 4, 2009)

I totally agree with this, too! I realize I post alot about holistic/alternative/home remedies, BUT that earthclinic site also has a disclaimer! Basically, *SEE YOUR VET FIRST, *even BEFORE you post online*!*


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## KathyL (Jul 6, 2011)

I completely agree that a forum is not a substitute for a vet. To be honest I am surprised at some of the questions I've seen people ask -- no common sense and I question their capacity to own a dog. Sorry but I just lost my golden this week and might be over sensitive right now.


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## Jen & Brew (Oct 11, 2012)

I entirely agree with this thread. There's nothing more frustrating then someone trying to diagnose via the internet. I had "Had" a friend who's dog was having seizures, instead of taking the dog to the vet which EVERONE was telling her to do she diagnosed her dog via youtube video's. Where is that dog today??? 6 ft under. I'm no longer friends with this person because her actions I felt were very stupid and as a result her dog suffered.
I used to work at a vert clinic and I can honestly say, people that think they've got it all figured out because they "Read it online" and refuse potential life saving tests frustrate the heck out of us!


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Thank you! I've wanted to say this so many times! 

And it doesn't just apply to dogs - I remember a while back someone posting that she was having chest pains, and the pain was shooting down her left arm, and was asking for advice HERE! And I got yelled at for saying, GO TO THE ER!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I think it all depends on the type of advice wanted. Some things that you guys may feel needs a vet trip may be different for me. If someone posted their dog is bloated, vomiting and pacing well yes, that is a "To the vet NOW" dont post it here until after vs my dog has a tony cut on his paw what to do (something like this simple put polysporin on the paw and if it gets worse vet time) would suffice. 

I have learned to know when a dog needs to see a vet. A couple of years ago when Lincoln sliced his paw open (wasnt a deep cut) the vet refused to give me advice said he must see him for $60. I brought him in $60 later he said oh polysporin would work he didnt even spend 2 minutes looking at him. My new vet, would give me advice over the phone. Id be way more broke then I am now if I took mine in for every little thing

So it all depends on whats being posted at the time


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I think it really depends? 

You used to be able to call the vet and talk to the vet about a problem... and or you stopped in at the vet and depending on the question being asked, they charged a fee to see the doctor or not. 

Like I remember with our first golden our vet down the street was absolutely awesome. The fee was about half what it is now, and he didn't always charge that depending on why we went in to see him. 

Like one time we took our golden in to see what was on his stomach.... ... and were told that YES boy dogs had nipples too. Lots of them.  

And we had any other number of questions regarding our dogs that really took the vet only a minute to answer - and we were not charged any fees. 

Now I'm not somebody who pinches pennies when it comes to my dogs, but there are times where due to experience I make a decision to take care of my dogs at home vs rushing to the vet. 

Because the prices to see the vet doubled, and now the vets charge us the same fees regardless of the amount of time they spent in the room with us.... I can understand why people would post questions on forums or talk with friends before turning to the vet. 

Probably a good example would be my Jacks had a bad reaction to a treat and/or he may have picked up a minor bug that caused a river of poop sludge to issue from his rear the other day. !!! I called the vet to check on what I should look for as far as emergancy (felt stupid asking, but I did) and let them know that I was not bringing him in unless I saw something noticably wrong and/or didn't see improvement in a couple days. With some gastro bugs, I think it takes the dogs 2-3 days to get better. He's on flagyl (I have a neverending supply because of our collie) and hamburger and rice. He about back to normal activity today - and instead of avoiding his brother like he was yesterday is back to instigating play sessions. <- This is the type of situation that was easily fixed through personal experience, and why if I saw a post from somebody here on GRF I'd suggest the same to them prior to rushing to the vet (unless they don't have flagyl in the house, which case I'd see the vet). That call to the vet was checking for emergency symptoms - the receptionist answering the phone would not have been able to offer advice at all and most vets wouldn't come to the phone unless it was w/regards to a previous visit. 

Now.... er, I see posts on the forums about puppies being snatched up and shaken and bleeding and pooping after the experience and freak out that there is no mention of a vet visit. 

Same thing about dogs getting hit by cars and people posting about it on the internet instead of getting in the car and driving to the vet. 

I think when you talk about the minor issues... that a lot of experienced dog owners make judgement calls on whether to see the vet or not. I think that's fine posting questions on the internet or privately asking people for advice. 

That's not the same as life threatening issues.....


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

I hope my thread about treating Bears ear infection at home didn't prompt this. 





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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

Well the hard part is that if you don't know that much about dogs you don't know what's serious and what's not. I saw the post late last night about what sounded like a fairly sick puppy and someone's post that it would be ok to wait for the morning. I wondered how much that person knew??? More than me? That's one of the issues with the Internet, often you really can't tell how knowledgeable the person is who's giving the advice. 

Over the years I've learned the quickest route to the ER vet and to keep their number by the phone. Fortunately they're good about taking calls, asking some questions and saying come right now, or watch for AB&C and do X if you see it.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Brave said:


> I hope my thread about treating Bears ear infection at home didn't prompt this.
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For what its worth, I would be treating it at home to unless it got worse and wasnt healing.


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

I think this really is more in regards to very serious issues. We have clients call a few hours (or even days) :doh: to get their dog looked after getting HBC. Would you wait? Seizures as well..we had someone bring their dog in around lunchtime. Just came in, never called..dog had been having seizures since the day before and continued all night long!..:no:.would you seriously wait that long for yourself to get seen? I bet not..in fact Im sure an ambulance would be called. Those are the ones that frustrate me.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Brave said:


> I hope my thread about treating Bears ear infection at home didn't prompt this.


Most definitely not prompted by you, Bear, or anything so minor as an ear infection. There's lots of minor things, like scrapes, cuts, pad leather tears, gross ears, etc. that the vet isn't going to do anything that requires special equipment, training, or prescriptions. I don't see any problem with using the health forum for that, and I certainly try to handle things like that on my own before bothering with a vet trip.

Anything that involves minor-league care, learning how to do stuff a vet tech does (wound dressing, ear cleaning, OTC meds, etc.), or getting second opinions after a vet has seen the dog seems awesome to me. I've certainly used this forum for advice when my vet was stumped about stuff or when I want to share something I've learned (like ear cleaning, dressing torn pad leather, etc.) that I feel I can do nearly as well as a vet.

I also think it's great when people want to get more advice on things like nutrition or to double-check other things they've heard at the vet. I think getting _second_ opinions here is wonderful.

I'm talking about stuff where a dog is suffering or an owner is risking serious complications by posting here instead of getting to the vet. It's a minority of threads that are like that, but it's enough of a trend that I felt like it was worth saying something. This forum can _supplement_ vet care, but it cannot _substitute_ in serious situations.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

*never mind* Sometimes I get too worked up... :no:


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I think we all understand that the frustration comes with the people that truly have a sick dog on hand (not talking about simple upset tummy, ear scratching, minor cuts and rashes that can wait) and for some reason have absolutely no common sense about it and spend the time on the forum instead of in the car heading to the vet.


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## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

Bumping up as a reminder..............gggggrrrrrrr


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

yes I agree that this forum should not be used instead of a vet. Some people though may be first time pet owners, some may be more emotional and with the vet bills nowadays some may want to make sure that other more experienced owners concur that it is a serious situation. 
Just yesterday we spent close to $300 in one hour at the vet. Bloodwork, Cerenia injection and pills.
It was due to this forum that I knew to make the hamburger and rice after vomiting, that I should wait about 12 hours before feeding again.
I rather people come here before double dozing on medications, underfeeding the dogs, giving the wrong meds such as Tylenol in lieu of going to the vet or to postpone that vet visit.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Lots of good points made in this thread. I get that people sometimes post because they're simply not sure if a visit to the vet is truly warranted (especially after hours and on weekends when it means going to an e-vet that not only costs more but that doesn't really know your dog like your regular vet does). Sure there are some things that should be no-brainers, like your dog being hit by a car, having a seizure or collapsing while walking. But when we get to things like vomiting and diarrhea, especially, it can be difficult to figure out where the line is between a condition that's safe to treat at home and what constitutes a medical crisis. I've had dogs most of my life and yet made that mistake recently with Ozzie. Thanks to the information received her and a better knowledge of what to look for I was quickly able to determine that he needed more help than I can give him... and it saved his life. This forum is incredible in that sense. So I get it. 

But what _really_ gets to me is when someone posts a thread and is told repeatedly by the overwhelming majority of posters that their dogs symptoms likely represent a life-threatening crisis but then ignore the very advice they asked for and put their dog's well being at risk. To make matters worse, these people then frequently disappear for days, failing to answer the repeated questions from members who are worried that the dog has paid the ultimate price for his or her owner's selfish choice. Thankfully, I haven't seen a thread where the poor dog died as a result. And though the "told-you-so" tone of the well overdue update makes me wish it were truly possible to reach through my computer screen to slap someone.... I'm always happy to hear that the dog is doing better and hope to never see a situation that ends otherwise. I just can't imagine being so cavalier with my beloved dogs' health as these people. It absolutely makes my blood boil that these folks not only put their dogs' lives on the line but that they drag the good people of this forum into it all and focus more on proving a point than providing care for their pet while the members of GRF spend restless nights worrying.

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

Good morning. I just felt the need to bump this particular thread up this morning.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

After reading one post in particular this morning, I agree, bumping up.


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## Pixie (Jun 13, 2012)

Thanks for bumping this I only saw it today.

Honestly I think it takes some visits to the vet in order to better understand when to go to the vet (I am speaking about small issues of course, not life or death events). I am currently trying to see it as an investment (still in that phase ).

Let's just say that at the first thing I would think I had to go to the vet. First called and the answer was always "it might be better to come over with her". Which anoys me a bit, since I am sure they could help more on the phone... nonetheless, rant aside. The other day Pixie had a pimple on her belly. It looked rather nasty but immediatly I realised that it was dry blood, so I cleaned it and after discussing with myself if I should go to the vet or not, I decided to see how it would progess during the night. The day after it was healing beautifully and now she has nothing!

But I feel that I did this taking into account all the other useless times I went to the vet for them to clean her skin and send her home with an expensive cream!

So I understand a bit the home medicine that people try to do, but... please be rational and have some commum sense! If you are worried enough to type here for help in a urgent matter, maybe that means you should go to the vet!


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

I think I would be more inclined to take my dog to the vet than go to a Dr myself


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

Lol, same here.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Can it be made any more blatantly obvious the only reason this thread was bumped up was because of my thread.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I don't think so, I did not even read your post, so I personally was not hinting at you.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

cgriffin said:


> I don't think so, I did not even read your post, so I personally was not hinting at you.


Well. I did not see another thread today where the OP was refusing to take their dog into the vet ( not that I was refusing) . So, I dunno.


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## Maddie'sMom2011 (Apr 26, 2011)

I'm pretty sure it was bumped because of another thread.


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## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

A1Malinois said:


> Can it be made any more blatantly obvious the only reason this thread was bumped up was because of my thread.


No you are 100% wrong about that. I did bump it up this AM after reading a post but it had nothing to do with you. I swear.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

There was a thread earlier today when everyone told the person to go to the vet, which the poster did do.

I totally agree with this for an obvious emergency (hit by car/broken bone/lots of bleeding) but there are more subtle symptoms which may or may not be an emergency.
I think overtime most owners develop a sixth sense of what might be vet worthy.
My adult dogs have vomited and had diahrrea several times that I waited out. Kenzie went to the ER vet because if it. It had more to do with their attitude than other symptoms.
Both Bear and Guinness were brought to the vet because they weren't interested in food and just seemed kind of off. Very vague symptoms, don't know that many people would have deemed it an emergency, but both dogs had bleeding spleen tumors, 1 benign & 1 malignant. I honestly think it has more to knowing "your" dog than the actual symptoms. Bear and Guinness had never missed a meal in their lives, sure there had been times that they turned their nose up at the food, which was followed by going outside to go to the bathroom or vomit and immediately come back to eat, so their not eating WAS a true emergency.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

A1Malinois said:


> Can it be made any more blatantly obvious the only reason this thread was bumped up was because of my thread.


I think one of the nice things about this thread is that people can bump it without being aggressive directly at any individual poster. As the replies have demonstrated, the bump today clearly wasn't about you.

But even if it were, a bump in an unrelated thread is hardly an aggressive, direct call-out of any individual member.


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## BajaOklahoma (Sep 27, 2009)

Pixie said:


> If you are worried enough to type here for help in a urgent matter, maybe that means you should go to the vet!


This!
I understand that not all vets (or doctors) have great people and communication skills. It's easy to get overwhelmed by what you hear. Or to question your gut feeling that you need a second opinion.

I have to bite my tongue on here a lot. I see "facts" presented that I know are incorrect, based on my education, training and experience. I learned a long time ago to be very careful about the source of the information (including me - you only know me based on what I've told you). Critical thinking is crucial.

We don't see your your dog, know what is normal for your dog or what has been going on in your home/life. That's why a vet is so important.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I feel the need to bump this up!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I've got to bump this again, especially for some ideas being touted about vaccinations in the puppy forum. Please, discuss things such as core puppy vaccines with your dog's vet and do not rely on a forum for advice!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Blood work, temp, and hands on the dog are so important even though some forum members are incredibly knowledgeable. Even a vet on a forum is limited by not being able to use his/her five senses to evaluate the dog. Great OP!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Yet another bump necessary today IMO.

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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Bumping*

I am bumping this, too. I would only discuss vaccinations with my vet-they are the most knowledgeable.

When I think something is wrong with my dog, I call the vet immediately and seek emergency care if necessary. It's fine to post here, but the call to the vet should be made first!!


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## Rob's GRs (Feb 25, 2007)

There is now an announcement for this Health Forum.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

Feeling the need to bump this this morning.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Just a friendly bump this morning. <3


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## ViggosMum (Nov 14, 2013)

Oops, I think that bump might have been in my direction. Sorry. Sometimes just having reassurance that you are not being paranoid, or even if you are, when you don't have others to discuss things with whilst you are worried, this place can be a helpful tool in making the right decision.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

*Announcement in Health Forum*

Here is the announcement in the Health Forum:


Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums - Announcements in Forum : Golden Retriever Health, Anatomy, Physiology & Breed Standard



> "About Threads and Posts in GRF Health Forum.
> 
> You are entitled to your opinions on what you believe may or may not be a health issue, or what may or may not work to help an animal in its overall health. However if a post or thread is stated as a fact you may be asked to prove your statements, even with scientific articles, so others may know where you obtain your information"
> 
> ...


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## 1stGold13 (Dec 1, 2013)

ViggosMum said:


> Oops, I think that bump might have been in my direction. Sorry. Sometimes just having reassurance that you are not being paranoid, or even if you are, when you don't have others to discuss things with whilst you are worried, this place can be a helpful tool in making the right decision.


Unlikely it was, there are tons of threads that people are reading at any given time. If someone did specifically direct it at you I can 100% promise they are only expressing concern about your dog's health rather than an attack on you. Please don't ever NOT ask a question that could help you, we are all at heart dog lovers and want the best for every dog.:wave:


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