# Need help with retrieving



## Jeffholloway96 (Dec 30, 2013)

Hello from Niceville Fl. I have a 6 month old female Topbrass puppy from the Piper/Trek litter. She has attended two obedience classes and passed the CGC test. She is a awesome dog that is great in the house. My ultimate goal would be to turn her into a upland hunter. 

I have introduced her to quail (she flushed them to flight) I have introduced her to gunfire Started with Cap gun in the yard and progressed to a 12gauge shotgun (no issues with that)
Last weekend I bought a few quail and staged them and she found(with my help) flushed them to flight (without encouragement) and we shot the birds and she went for the retrieve(I had her on long lead to control the retrieve so she would not have a chance to eat bird) No birds were eaten, and a few were brought back alive. (appears to have a soft mouth)


Now my problem is were starting to practice retrieving (without treats) and she is dropping dummy at my feet when i am using long lead / not returning with dummy and sometimes laying down and chewing dummy when she is off long lead

She has great instincts, but is lacking proper training 

I just ordered the DVD Sound beginnings By Jackie Mertens and I hope some of my answers can be found using that as a reference.

What else should I be doing? What am I doing wrong? Is there another book/DVD I should reference. 

Should I consider F/F or E collar conditioning 

It seems like a obedience issue to me, but i am not sure how to fix 

BTW does anyone know of any Pro's in the Northwest Fl area?

Thanks,

Jeff


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Excellent job at passing the CGC test at 6 months! My puppies are never that settled at that age.

I'm just a beginner myself. Best thing you can do is find a local club with members that can steer you towards some training classes. Sounds like she has great instincts and breeding.

From my personal experience, keep her on the long line all the time. Once she is FF she will not lay down and chew the dummy. I would definitely consider FF, but you want someone who knows how to do it well help you out. You want to do it when she is the right age. I waited until 12 months with my girl. She's the only one that I've FF.

Hope some Florida people can chime in!


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Be patient, your dog is young. Is she done teething?

Find a training group.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Jeffholloway96 said:


> 1. I have a 6 month old female Topbrass puppy from the Piper/Trek litter. GREAT!
> 2. My ultimate goal would be to turn her into a upland hunter. FUN!
> 3. I have introduced her to quail (she flushed them to flight). EXCELLENT
> 4. I have introduced her to gunfire Started with Cap gun in the yard and progressed to a 12gauge shotgun (no issues with that). PERFECT
> ...


Jeff,
First note: You've done a whole lot right! 
From finding a high quality puppy to the introduction to birds to the introduction to gunfire ... NICE JOB!
Second note: What you are experiencing is called "being a puppy!" Most pups (and all of mine) go through this stage at some point. If you want delivery to hand, you will probably have to go through FF with her. FF isn't traumatic and, in my opinion, lays the foundation upon which most trained skills are built. I'm not positive, but I don't believe that Jackie's DVD covers FF. I know that Bill Hillman and Evan Graham both have DVDs devoted to FF ... I believe that Hillman's approach is generally considered to be a gentle approach, however it utilizes an e-collar (and this isn't saying that Graham's isn't gentle as well, but the Hillman approach has that reputation). There are probably others, but they don't come to mind.
Keep up the good work. 
FTGoldens
(PS: I'd suggest that you not limit your girl to upland ... waterfowl can be a lot of fun as well.)


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## marsh mop (Mar 13, 2009)

Jeff, call Jackie and she can help you find a trainer in your area.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

There are a good number of excellent retriever people in your area. 
I would absolutely consider FF & ecollar training in the future if you want to develop her full potential. Check out Rick Stawski's videos (you can buy them at Gander Mountain) -- they are the best I've seen and very easy to follow. They'll walk you through each step.
You may have a few months of innocence left before you start FF, or she may be ready now. Look at the thread "Bally's Training" on this forum and you can ready my log of training with my own pup who is 11 months old now.
Best of luck!


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## Jeffholloway96 (Dec 30, 2013)

Thanks to everyone who has replied,
*Alaska7133*: I originally planned on taking the CGC test as practice on the last day of her second obedience class, but she shocked me and was well behaved throughout the test. She was also tried from playing all day with my Moms 3 year old female Golden. Which helped really helped her demeanor.
BTW, Gracie was born in Alaska, so she’s an Alaskan Golden at heart..lol 
*gdgli:* As far as teething goes….She has been going through her second chew phase for about 3-4 weeks. Her teeth look adult and her gums are not red or anything, so maybe close to being complete?? 
*FT Goldens*: I have ordered (Sound Beginnings DVD) by Jackie Mertens and (Smartfetch DVD) by Evan Graham I saw a few Youtube videos of Evan Graham and though he had a good approach. I will reference Bill Hillman and see what I can find on him. And I definitely keep an open mind on waterfowl hunting.
*Marsh Mop*: I will contact Jackie about trainers in my area, as I am finding it hard to locate a training group that isn’t primarily pointer breeds.

*K9design*: I read some of Bally’s training journal. That is very helpful, I will be using that as a reference and I will *check out Rick Stawski's videos*
*Growing up my family always had Golden retrievers, but Gracie is my 1st Golden Retriever as an adult and I am having a great time training myself and her, but man….this is hard! *
*I just want a great Versatile hunting dog that will be calm in the house and disciplined in the field.*

*Thanks again, and Happy New Year!*
*Jeff *


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Jeff,
Do you have a pup out of Topbrass Atigun Flyer? If you do her owner is on this board. He would also have some suggestions for you if it's the dog I'm thinking of. If it's not the dog above, could you tell me who her breeder was up here? I'm really curious. I did here of one nice field breeding up here last summer. I think it was up in Fairbanks, is that the one if it wasn't the dog above? We have so few good field breedings up here, I'm always curious to see who it was. Sorry to be nosy we're just pretty small up here.


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## Jeffholloway96 (Dec 30, 2013)

Her mom is Topbrass Pay the Piper

Her Parents Pedigree

Pedigree: Piper/Trek 


Jeff


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I was wrong it wasn't who I thought it was initially. It was that very nice litter I heard about last summer up north. Good for you! I hope you are having fun! Plus your pup gets to swim in the winter, unlike a pup up here waiting until springtime to learn how to swim.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

Jeffholloway96 said:


> *FT Goldens*: I have ordered (Sound Beginnings DVD) by Jackie Mertens and (Smartfetch DVD) by Evan Graham I saw a few Youtube videos of Evan Graham and though he had a good approach. I will reference Bill Hillman and see what I can find on him. And I definitely keep an open mind on waterfowl hunting.....Happy New Year![/B]
> *Jeff *


Jeff,

You'll find SmartFetch, or really any method is more effective if you do it thoroughly. Force fetch is a key component of formal Basics. Here's the Carr-based structure of Basics.

*The components of Basics in order
*
1)	“Here”
2)	“Heel & Sit”
*3)	“Hold”; automatically evolves to Walking “Hold, Heel, Sit”
4)	“Fetch”; ear pinch, which evolves into Walking “Fetch” & “Fetch-no-fetch”, e-collar conditioning to “Fetch”
5)	Pile work, including Mini-pile, Nine bumper pile; AKA Force to pile*
6)	3-handed casting; teaching the 3 basic casts – “Back” and both “Over’s”, including 2-hands “Back”
7)	Mini tee; includes collar conditioning to all basic commands, transferring to the go, stop, cast functions in micro dimension as preparation for the Single tee. Also includes De-bolting
8)	Single tee
9)	Double tee
10)	Water tee with Swim-by

The bolded portion (Items 3, 4, and 5) represents what is covered in a complete force fetch program, and that means SmartFetch. The components of Basics are sequential, and fit a pattern of logical development. Basics form a firm foundation that supports all the more advanced skills, and provide you with tools to keep your dog maintained over his career.






EvanG


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## Jeffholloway96 (Dec 30, 2013)

Evan,

Thanks for the breakdown. I needed a list of progression, and you hooked me up. I see one of Gracie's weaknesses. HEEL to SIT. She has a ok HERE and FRONT SIT but I never really worked on HEEL to SIT. I will be focusing on that until it's solid. Then use Smartfetch to guide me through steps 3,4,5.

Thanks

Jeff


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Jeff, in my personal opinion I would slow it down, at least until your pup is older and you have knowledge of his hips and elbows. I would concentrate in small retrieves at this young age and obedience (which IMHO) is the foundation of every training - you create a relationship with your pup and develop his/her desire to please you thus by the age of two you will be able to mold his behavior in the direction you want.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Claudia M,
I'm curious as to why you suggest that Jeff slow down? On what parts do you believe he should slow down on (in some ways, I train in a very slow fashion)?
And why wait on hips and elbow reports?
And why concentrate on small retrieves? (Maybe my definition of "small" retrieves is different from your definition.)
And why concentrate on obedience?
I'm truly curious and always hoping to learn something, but I will admit that I approach things differently.
Thanks,
FTGoldens


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

FTGoldens, my retriever bible is James Free Lamb's "Training your retriever". He does not recommend full training until the dog is 2 years of age. 
I also believe that environment causes hips and elbow dysplasia not just genetics. You run a dog heavy too early and you got yourself a possible surgery before the dog is 4 years old. 
I guess I am just old school.  I know a lot of people nowadays are into the sooner the training the better and the sooner the titles the better. I personally do not believe in that, I believe in working with the dog and training from young in the arena that you want to pursue but just like there are not many Mozarts and Beethovens who were prodigies who were able to play piano at the age of 4 and compose symphonies in their teens, there are just not that many dogs that can do the same. 
As far as obedience goes, it gives you an opportunity to work with your dog and create a relationship with your dog while nor stressing it's body.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

All I know is that I started serious field training when Fisher was 4 years old -- by the time he was 8 his mind knew what he needed to know but his body couldn't keep up with the rigors of field training. Slater on the other hand field training out of the gate, Master Hunter at 3 years old OFA Good/Elbows normal. Field work is something young dogs physically can handle. If they can't do marks without breaking down, your genetics is way worse than your environment. Train on!!!!!


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

I have James Lamb Free's book on a shelf somewhere around here. I haven't looked at it in probably 30 years or more. Too many better options to choose from these days. 

There are a lot of approaches to training a field dog. Which one you choose really depends upon what you want the dog to be able to do. Waiting until a dog is two to begin field work went be the wayside a long time ago. I prefer to start formal training around 6 or 7 months of age.


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

I would absolutely call Jackie and help her guide you to a trainer. And congrats on the Topbrass pup, I'm on my third right now.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

Swampcollie said:


> I have James Lamb Free's book on a shelf somewhere around here. I haven't looked at it in probably 30 years or more. Too many better options to choose from these days.
> 
> There are a lot of approaches to training a field dog. Which one you choose really depends upon what you want the dog to be able to do. Waiting until a dog is two to begin field work went be the wayside a long time ago. I prefer to start formal training around 6 or 7 months of age.


36 years ago when I bought my first retriever pup, the breeder loaned me his already "old" copy of Free's book. It was rather dated even at that time, but nicely written. All pursuits move ahead over time. More efficient methods, better understanding of what's involved; all of those things, plus equipment and execution - and retriever training has followed that path.

It's a choice between a smartphone or a rotary-dial unit. Both make calls. Fill in the blanks with the mountain of differences between them.

EvanG


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks for your thoughts, ClaudiaM.
I guess that I fall somewhere between the old school and the avant-garde trainers. My favorite hardback is Charles Morgan on Retrievers, wherein he said that he wants his six month old pups to be like "wild Indians." [Indeed, that was written before the phrase became politically incorrect.] So I start basics a bit later than most current trainers, but I still follow the Carr progression, which is the foundation for most field trainers.
When my pups are in the age range of Jeff's pup, we focus on marks ... lots and lots of marks. By six months old, I will be throwing the pups marks out to around 200 yards, of course that would be in fields with little or no cover. I want to build their confidence to go that far away from home. So I'm with Anney on this one, I believe that the pups can handle the physicality of retrieving at some pretty good distances.
And at six months, my dogs will have only very basic obedience (basically, sit and here). Noting that Jeff's pup is CGC already, that would be enough for me at this stage. 
As my pseudonym suggests, I am training for field trials. So my dogs need momentum and lots of it. Even up to twelve months, increasing the pups' desire/drive/momentum is going to be my primary focus. [Notwithstanding this focus, as adults my dogs are pretty solid hunters, though when hunting an occasional break doesn't constitute a startling event.]
Now I must admit that I'm striving for another Mozart or Beethoven. As you said, not all dogs can reach the pinnacle of competition, but that's my goal.
FTGoldens


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I think that Claudia is also concerned with stressing the dog's joints. I do know somebody with a very nice field dog. She did a lot with him at a young age, puppy, and now he has elbows that do not give good Xrays. Dog never has gone lame.

Are the bad pictures due to genetics or trauma? We can't tell, can we.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

FTGoldens - agreed! 
I have worked with Rose from a young age towards field work. Introducing to the gun, water, marks, birds (that is more recent). I only worked though on shorter retrieves for the purpose of not stressing the joints. 100 to 200 yards from about 9 months of age. I personally believe in slowly increasing that distance. I am not worried about her being confident to run ahead of me as she has proven that confidence in free running at the cabin fields. From young my husband has taken her up there and played what at first I thought a weird game - take her in the fields and play hide and seek with her. She would run ahead and look back for him then run ahead more, he would hide behind a tree or bush she would go back to the last spot she saw him and look for him until she found him (did not take long).
In an open field she would run ahead of us 500 yards or more, turn around and either wait for us or run back to us. 
So in a way he was training her confidence at her own pace thru play. 
hahaha - guess who had the first aid kit and the emt gel/spray in her backback during this whole time!


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

Claudia M said:


> FTGoldens, my retriever bible is James Free Lamb's "Training your retriever".


Claudia, 

I meant to thank you for reminding me of Free's book. It's kind of sentimental thinking about it because it was what I started out on. But also, I gave a seminar a few years back for the North Dakota Retriever Club. I didn't find out until I got there that it was James Lamb Free's home club many years ago. 

They had quite a bit of memorabilia, including signs from his property, plus some old pictures, and what not in their club house. It was great fun.

The club has very nice grounds, and nicely contoured training ponds. 

EvanG


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

My husband trained using the book. He eventually buried the book with Trooper. By the time he was 2 he was already showing signs of bad hips so he never went further than just markings with him. By the time he was 4 he had petite mal seizures and by the time he was 6 he had grand mal seizures. Before Trooper he trained Belle and while she was slower she was right on every mark and every retrieve. 
I have seen a lot of dismissals of Free's notion that a retriever should not have to go thru force fetch (the dog either has it or does not have it). 
Either out of cowardice or stubbornness I have decided to try Rose's desire to please instead of force fetch and see how far I can go.
I bet the club was wonderful to visit, just the idea of being there would give me chills. It would be both nostalgic and also amazing to see where the retrievers are now compared to where they were back then.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Jeff, 
I've had the wonderful opportunity to train with your puppy's sister the last 2 weekends. My husband met them out running her on the trails and invited them to come train. There is one thing I can say, this is a very special litter. This girl, named Honey, has had no obedience training, doesn't know sit, stay, come, etc. But when her owners brought her to the line she was all business. She knew exactly what to do. She was so sharp. Extremely smart. Amazing marking. Structurally she is lovely to watch. I have to say that you are very lucky to have a puppy from this litter. I am sad to say though, that Honey is owned by an elderly couple with no intention of running her in field trials, which is what her breeding is for. I helped them with what I could, which wasn't much, and referred them to a local field trial trainer and an obedience trainer. She's the kind of dog with endless energy that needs a very structured environment. I hope you find a good trainer for your dog. If you want PM me and I'll put you in touch with someone I know that might be able to help you find the right trainer.


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## Jeffholloway96 (Dec 30, 2013)

WOW..... that is really cool that you ran into one of Gracie's sisters. Small world! I will PM you for the contact info.

Update on Gracie's progress:

I have been steady with the training and she is doing good. So the retrieving to hand is getting better. I tried a back chaining technique to help bridge the retrieve. She liked to catch a ball thrown under hand from five feet away.
Every time she caught the ball she would run towards me with the ball in her mouth. I would pet,praise and then command sit followed by more petting, praise followed by a drop command. 

This has helped her reliability, but she is not 100% more like 85%

I did a Quail Hunt using Pen Raised quail. She did great. Gunfire didn't bother her, she flushed the birds to flight very aggressively, and did two good retrieves. Her nose is still a weakness, and if a bird was shot into the woods she would struggle to find it. I think that's normal though since she was 7 months old at the time of that hunt. 

I am about 5 weeks into F/F. I just started (walking fetch). I am using Evan Grahams Smart Fetch DVD and Mike Lardy Vol 1 Basics,Transition,and More as my training reference. 

I am also staying steady with basic obedience, and loose lease walking is still a weak area. 

Thats the update for now.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Sounds like Gracie is coming along. I can say that this litter is a bit "soft". Be gentle with her, she will not be hard to correct. I've heard that Trek their dad was the same way. That was the only piece of advice I got from a local woman familiar with the breeding of the litter, just a little "softer" than the average litter. 

Have you tried your girl on ducks yet? Honey would not pick them up. I've tried 2 separate times to get her to pick them up. She's fine on pigeons. I would hate to FF her to get her to pick up ducks. I was a little surprised with this breeding that she wouldn't. Do you have any issues with ducks?

I'll see Honey again this weekend. Can you post a photo of your girl? I'd like to share them with Honey's owner. Once you have enough posts I can PM you the owners up here's information. 

Are you thinking of field trials or hunt tests?


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## Jeffholloway96 (Dec 30, 2013)

I tried to send pm, but it said i need to have 15 posts in order to send pm's


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

My email is [email protected]


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## Jeffholloway96 (Dec 30, 2013)

I was thinking about hunt test's


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## Jeffholloway96 (Dec 30, 2013)

I haven't used duck's for marking, just bumpers and freshly shot quail and a frozen dove once.


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## Jeffholloway96 (Dec 30, 2013)

Ok Got the Email


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

Don't use an ecollar on a golden. I read a message on a hunting forum by some guy who had put one on a golden. And had zapped her. She was out in the water circling around and around. He didn't know what was wrong with the dog. 

It was him. He was confusing goldens with labs. Goldens just get confused (IMHO) when you do something like that.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Gwen_Dandridge said:


> Don't use an ecollar on a golden. I read a message on a hunting forum by some guy who had put one on a golden. And had zapped her. She was out in the water circling around and around. He didn't know what was wrong with the dog.
> 
> It was him. He was confusing goldens with labs. Goldens just get confused (IMHO) when you do something like that.



Hi Gwen. All of my goldens are field trained using an ecollar. 
A dumb trainer is a dumb trainer no matter what tool you put in their hands. The breed doesn't dictate the tool.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

Gwen_Dandridge said:


> Don't use an ecollar on a golden. I read a message on a hunting forum by some guy who had put one on a golden. And had zapped her. She was out in the water circling around and around. He didn't know what was wrong with the dog.


Gwen,

You need far better information than one forum post about a numskull who used an e-collar incorrectly and got a bizarre response. Breed generalities are rarely accurate as well. I've trained every single retrieving breed including spaniels. My personal gundog is a Golden; trained fully via e-collar. But he is neither good nor bad in response to the e-collar by virtue of his being a Golden. He responds appropriately and reliably because he's properly trained.


Gwen_Dandridge said:


> It was him. He was confusing goldens with labs. Goldens just get confused (IMHO) when you do something like that.


This is not an issue of Golden vs. Lab. There is no e-collar genetic code in Labradors that is missing in Goldens. There certainly is a problem with uneducated human beings strapping an e-collar on a dog and "zapping" them without prior education and conditioning. The information is readily available.






His name is Moose, and he started his e-collar conditioning at 4 months of age. Note that he is wearing an e-collar. He wears it any time we train or hunt - not _because_ he needs it, but rather _in case_ he needs correction we keep a steady standard. No confusion, and almost never a need for correction because obedience is his standard and his expectation. Once a dog is through formal Basics the need for e-collar use declines steadily.

EvanG


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## TrailDogs (Aug 15, 2011)

Gwen_Dandridge said:


> Don't use an ecollar on a golden. I read a message on a hunting forum by some guy who had put one on a golden. And had zapped her. She was out in the water circling around and around. He didn't know what was wrong with the dog.


That is sad to hear. It sounds like a very confused dog due to a poor trainer who is unable to read the dog or train it properly. 
Most good field trainers can readily identify confusion in a dog and offer help in those instances. 
It is not related to the tools used. Take the e-collar out of the picture and you would probably still have a bad dog-trainer relationship in your example. 
'IT WAS HIM' is the part of your post I would agree with.


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

Okay, I consider myself fully chastised. 

I still don't care for ecollars though.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

Gwen_Dandridge said:


> Okay, I consider myself fully chastised.
> 
> I still don't care for ecollars though.


Gwen,
We always fear what we do not understand.....


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Respectfully, I don't think it's fair to gang up on Gwen over her views on the e-collar. She has as much right to her opinion as all y'all. She has now been educated as to her original concern over the dumb trainer. I think we should all get back on topic with the original poster's question.

:wave:


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

goldlover68 said:


> Gwen,
> We always fear what we do not understand.....


And, sometimes, we just don't like things that we do have experience with. :wave:


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## TrailDogs (Aug 15, 2011)

Gwen_Dandridge said:


> Okay, I consider myself fully chastised.
> 
> I still don't care for ecollars though.


That is OK, they are certainly not for everyone. People train differently and have different methods that they and their dogs are comfortable with. Your dog looks like she has a nice pedigree for doing field work. I hope you try it with her.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

TrailDogs,
Good catch! Gwen's pup's mom has some nice field breeding.
Gwen you should think about it. It might help her be less fearful if she discovered she has a purpose in the field. I've seen dogs become very focused. It might be what she needs! No e-collar required, we promise.


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## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

Alaska7133 said:


> TrailDogs,
> Good catch! Gwen's pup's mom has some nice field breeding.
> Gwen you should think about it. It might help her be less fearful if she discovered she has a purpose in the field. I've seen dogs become very focused. It might be what she needs! No e-collar required, we promise.


I have to second this. My Bernie is fear reactive (towards other dogs and scary objects). We used to not even be able to take him for walks, or even in the front yard. He would whine and react, acted paranoid. We started hunt/field training with him because we thought maybe having a job to do would ease some of his stress. Along with other training, we've made huge bounds of progress, but Bernie LOVES field training. Lives for it. He can be around other dogs and not react, he can even be off leash around other dogs when we do field training. I dont know exactly what it is, but when he's working he's a whole different dog. And we're still only in the early stages of training - still working with bumpers and on ground work. We took him to one of our local GRC clubs field training sessions last year. You should have seen this boy. In a field with a bunch of other dogs around, but all he cared about was driving for that bumper. We'll be doing field work (regardless of how we do in competition) until he's too senior to do it anymore. They joy it brings and the therapeutic effect it has on his reactivity is well worth the price.

Like Alaska said, you don't have to use an ecollar. We don't. I stick to +R and -P side of the spectrum because Bernie shuts down otherwise (like even if you try to get him to sit by pushing on his butt..I'm assuming his issues are related to his reactivity). Its not really the common practice in field training, but everyone is very accepting of whatever training methods you choose. That and (advice from friends who do field with me) just smile and nod when you receive input on using methods you're not interested in. So many people tell me I "gotta get a prong on him" about Bernie. I smile and thank them for their input. But only use what I'm comfortable with.


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

Thanks for thinking about me. Maddie is doing waaaay better now. Between clicker training, melatonine and full out party mode, she's no longer flipping out or hiding from the microwave, the washing machine, the dryer or the kitchen fan. In fact, she is totally ignoring the metal batters near the agility field. This doesn't mean I can rest on her laurels, but it does mean I'm feeling that major progress has been made.

As for work, she does agility and nose work and therapy. I don't think I'm ready to add bird hunting to the list. I wouldn't be able to do much else.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

Brave said:


> Respectfully, I don't think it's fair to gang up on Gwen over her views on the e-collar. She has as much right to her opinion as all y'all. She has now been educated as to her original concern over the dumb trainer. I think we should all get back on topic with the original poster's question.
> 
> :wave:


So it is OK to post your opinion, but not OK for people to disagree with your opinion.....your logic is a bit off....y'all!


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

goldlover68 said:


> So it is OK to post your opinion, but not OK for people to disagree with your opinion.....your logic is a bit off....y'all!


That's not what I said. Gwen posted once and four people responded saying almost the same thing. I've seen so many threads fall apart (and get closed) b/c the topic of e-collar comes up. 

The jist of my comment was "Let's agree to disagree. To each their own."

Sorry you took it to mean something else.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

Gwen_Dandridge said:


> And, sometimes, we just don't like things that we do have experience with. :wave:


Gwen,
I am not trying to be disrespectful in any way to you, but I have had to many bad experience with dog people that are negative on e collars and other training methodology, these folks sometimes put out uneducated/ untrained opinions about their use. I do know many good trainers who field train golden's without using e collars, and I know many more who use them properly and produce great field dogs. 

So if you are one who has leaned the proper use of e collars and choose to use different methods....I commend you and wish you luck and happiness. 

If on the other hand you are one of the many who tried to use an e collar, and was not properly trained/ educated as to how they must be used, then I would hope you would be careful on what you say that may misinform other potential dog owners.....


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Brave said:


> That's not what I said. Gwen posted once and four people responded saying almost the same thing. I've seen so many threads fall apart (and get closed) b/c the topic of e-collar comes up.
> 
> The jist of my comment was "Let's agree to disagree. To each their own."
> 
> Sorry you took it to mean something else.



If someone came on here and wanted to breed their dogs without clearances, four people telling them otherwise wouldn't get a finger wagging. 
The anti-collar crowd gets a lot of protection around here....


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Going back to the OP, Jeff how's it going? I'll see Gracie's sister Honey on Saturday. I got her owners hooked up with a trainer here. The owners spend half the year down on the west coast of the states, so they are getting with a trainer down there too. I'll try to remember my camera on Saturday to show you what she looks like. She is nowhere near trained like your girl. She doesn't know sit, come, stay, down, anything. Super wild. But so much potential. Jeff after seeing your girl's sister Honey, and looking at the pedigree, you might want to consider a derby. She only has to do marked retrieves. No handling or blinds. Seeing how well Honey marks, I'm sure Gracie is incredible too. I couldn't walk out far enough for Honey, she was that good. Since Gracie is young and so far advanced, you are doing really well with her.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Alaska7133 said:


> I got her owners hooked up with a trainer *here*. The owners spend half the year down on the west coast of the *states*, so they are getting with a trainer down *there* too.


Hey Alaska7133,

Alaska is now a state ... like it or not.

Just sayin'
FTGoldens :wavey:


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

Don't they refer to the lower 48 as "Down below"?

EvanG


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Actually we capitalize it: Outside. We say that someone moved Outside. Yep even in the newspaper. When you need a passport to drive here. When you have a former governor (almost vice president) that is a member of the Independence Party (not independent). Then you refer to that place down there as lower 48 or the states. I've met lots of people up here that have never been Outside. In 1984 we started getting our news on tv the same day as Outside. Prior to that we had to wait 2 weeks for the news. So we're kind of on our own wavelength here. Alaska, the only state where republicans smoke pot and democrats carry guns. We are an odd group!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Hey Jeff,
I got to hang out with another pup from the litter. Super crazy energy. Loves to retrieve, hates to come back. No interest in birds at all! How's the for variation in the litter. How's your training coming along?


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Why is Evan temporarily banned?


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

It happened awhile ago. Not sure why.


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