# When to spay/neuter? Timeframes for closing of growth plate in dogs...



## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

Assisting Decision-Making on Age of Neutering for 35 Breeds of Dogs: Associated Joint Disorders, Cancers, and Urinary Incontinence


Neutering (including spaying) of male and female dogs in the first year after birth has become routine in the U.S. and much of Europe, but recent research reveals that for some dog breeds, neutering may be associated with increased risks of debilitating joint disorders and some cancers...




www.frontiersin.org





GrandmaToGoldens shared this earlier, and I’m sure you’ve already seen it, but it’s focus is on primarily cancers. For Goldens they recommend keeping a female intact or spaying at 1 year. Spaying earlier or later was associated with cancer.

BUT, as your post is mostly focused on bone and growth, it’s hard to predict. I believe you can ask your vet for radiographs to determine if the growth plates are closed but I’m not sure how accurate that is. Regardless, the research shows the predilection for joint issues occurs when spaying and neutering happens at less than 6 months and between 6-11 months.


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## SoCalEngr (Apr 11, 2020)

Tagrenine said:


> Assisting Decision-Making on Age of Neutering for 35 Breeds of Dogs: Associated Joint Disorders, Cancers, and Urinary Incontinence
> 
> 
> Neutering (including spaying) of male and female dogs in the first year after birth has become routine in the U.S. and much of Europe, but recent research reveals that for some dog breeds, neutering may be associated with increased risks of debilitating joint disorders and some cancers...
> ...


Agreed. It's not a decision I'm taking lightly, and am actually continuing to research. But, everything absolutely points to a conclusion that early spay/neuter (i.e., before 12 months) poses a significant health concern.

I have a relative who is a veterinarian, and they're training was to neuter before 6-months to reduce mammary cancers. But, there's a YouTube video where a veterinary oncologist observed that only 1/2 of mammary tumors end up being malignant, and it's much easier to monitor for mammary tumors than other, more dangerous, cancers.


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## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

Per that particular lit review, mammary cancer was 4% in those spayed 2 - 8 and 1% in females left intact. They interestingly don’t list the MC values in their table and it’s also a lit review so everything that comes with it is retrospective. And uses the exact same data as before.

As for joints, you can definitely recommend radiographs to assess growth plate closure. I would recommend having a radiologist do it. In one article on Kangal dogs, it looks like 11 months was reported as a mean for the radius, the others were 8 months


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## CCoopz (Jun 2, 2020)

Tagrenine said:


> Assisting Decision-Making on Age of Neutering for 35 Breeds of Dogs: Associated Joint Disorders, Cancers, and Urinary Incontinence
> 
> 
> Neutering (including spaying) of male and female dogs in the first year after birth has become routine in the U.S. and much of Europe, but recent research reveals that for some dog breeds, neutering may be associated with increased risks of debilitating joint disorders and some cancers...
> ...


Thanks have saved that link for later reading as we have a decision to make soon too.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Unfortunately, for females, the decision can not be made solely on skeletal development issues. The whole picture has to be part of it - the risk of increasing some cancers and decreasing the risk of others whether spaying before or after first heat. I wish it were as easy as just worrying about growth plates. Spaying before first heat increases the rate of some cancers and joint issues. Spaying after first heat increases the rate of some really awful cancers.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

Growth plates should close by 12-14 months so anytime after 18 months is more then enough time to wait to spray/neuter.

Males are best left intact unless a medical need requires it imo.

Females also but you should watch for a pyometra infection. If that happens then 95% of the time a spay is needed to clear the infection. The most common time for an infection is roughly the first 6 weeks after a heat cycle. Maggie just turned 3 on the 23rd and and is still intact. Just finished a heat third past week as well.


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## SoCalEngr (Apr 11, 2020)

Sweet Girl said:


> Spaying before first heat increases the rate of some cancers and joint issues. Spaying after first heat increases the rate of some really awful cancers.


Can you provide some references for the potential issues associated with spaying after first heat? It's not that I disbelieve you, it's just that it's helpful to be able to read the source information. - Thanks!


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

it actually lowers osteo chances. 
I'll find you citations once the VA shows over- I'm watching it on FB.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

The rate of lymphosarcoma in intact male dogs was less than that of dogs castrated when less than 12 months of age. In dogs castrated >12 months of age, the risk of lymphoma was 0 versus 3.5% in intact dogs, and 9.6% in males castrated at or before a year of age. There were no differences relative to neuter status in female dogs (Table 2). The results of this study would suggest that male golden retriever dogs should be castrated just after a year of age to reduce the risk of lymphoma. (Long-term health effects of neutering dogs: comparison of Labrador Retrievers with Golden Retrievers.)
Study (albeit on rotts) found that dogs that underwent a spay or castration before a year of age were 3.8 and 3.1 times, respectively, more likely to develop osteosarcoma compared to intact dogs. Sexually intact dogs of that study had an 8% risk of developing osteosarcoma compared with a 28% risk in males and a 25% risk in females gonadectomized before 1 year of age Vet Med (Auckl). 2015; 6: 171–180. and then UCDavis had a GR study on osteo that basically said same thing a few years ago.. I'm distracted now. My Geode boy Select to Daniel. Geode and Daniel have each been 2 BOB 2 SD the last 4 days, back and forth!!


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## CCoopz (Jun 2, 2020)

Prism Goldens said:


> The rate of lymphosarcoma in intact male dogs was less than that of dogs castrated when less than 12 months of age. In dogs castrated >12 months of age, the risk of lymphoma was 0 versus 3.5% in intact dogs, and 9.6% in males castrated at or before a year of age. There were no differences relative to neuter status in female dogs (Table 2). The results of this study would suggest that male golden retriever dogs should be castrated just after a year of age to reduce the risk of lymphoma. (Long-term health effects of neutering dogs: comparison of Labrador Retrievers with Golden Retrievers.)
> Study (albeit on rotts) found that dogs that underwent a spay or castration before a year of age were 3.8 and 3.1 times, respectively, more likely to develop osteosarcoma compared to intact dogs. Sexually intact dogs of that study had an 8% risk of developing osteosarcoma compared with a 28% risk in males and a 25% risk in females gonadectomized before 1 year of age Vet Med (Auckl). 2015; 6: 171–180. and then UCDavis had a GR study on osteo that basically said same thing a few years ago.. I'm distracted now. My Geode boy Select to Daniel. Geode and Daniel have each been 2 BOB 2 SD the last 4 days, back and forth!!


So based on that, if I leave Teddy intact (he’s 2 years and 2 months old) he is at slightly more risk of lymphosarcoma -and Osteosarcoma than a dog neutered between 1 year old and 2 year old?

What I can’t figure out is if there would be any benefit to neutering him within the next few months? I am 99% sure I will leave him intact as the science suggests this is better for his health. But I am confused about what health risks I should be aware of associated with intact dogs.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

There are tons of things to worry about besides cancer- risk of hip dysplasia is higher w early neuters (and none of the studies look at hedging risks clearanced sire and dam vs not) and males castrated before a year old have a way higher risk than those castrated after a year (3X higher) or intact (2X times higher risk) 
Smith GK, Mayhew PD, Kapatkin AS, McKelvie PJ, Shofer FS, Gregor TP
J Am Vet Med Assoc. 2001 Dec 15; 219(12):1719-24. and prostate issues are huge in intact dogs but castrating gets rid of those. Cruciate tears- WAY more likely if early altered. Much of this is male vs female. The girls don't seem to have as many of the problems as the boys.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Actually, I just found a good summary article. Current perspectives on the optimal age to spay/castrate dogs and cats


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## CCoopz (Jun 2, 2020)

Prism Goldens said:


> There are tons of things to worry about besides cancer- risk of hip dysplasia is higher w early neuters (and none of the studies look at hedging risks clearanced sire and dam vs not) and males castrated before a year old have a way higher risk than those castrated after a year (3X higher) or intact (2X times higher risk)
> Smith GK, Mayhew PD, Kapatkin AS, McKelvie PJ, Shofer FS, Gregor TP
> J Am Vet Med Assoc. 2001 Dec 15; 219(12):1719-24. and prostate issues are huge in intact dogs but castrating gets rid of those. Cruciate tears- WAY more likely if early altered. Much of this is male vs female. The girls don't seem to have as many of the problems as the boys.


So if I leave Teddy intact I really need to be getting him checked for prostrate cancer. 
As he is fully grown now at his age (just over 2 years old), bone development complete. I am concerned that I am being negligent in not getting him neutered to protect him from prostate cancer. 
I am wondering if he is better protected from things associated with early neutering. 
From reading the evidenced based literature I can’t get to the bottom of whether at his age (over 2) there’s little benefit to neutering him or if prostate cancer is so bad I should get him done just to protect him from that?! 😬🤦‍♀️ Argh 😖


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Not necessarily prostate cancer- BPH is a real problem in intact dogs, especially dogs who do not regularly ejaculate. He may need to be on finasteride, to keep the prostate smaller.


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## CCoopz (Jun 2, 2020)

Prism Goldens said:


> Not necessarily prostate cancer- BPH is a real problem in intact dogs, especially dogs who do not regularly ejaculate. He may need to be on finasteride, to keep the prostate smaller.


Thank you. I can see I need to do some more research. Thank you for the tip about finasteride.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

SoCalEngr said:


> Can you provide some references for the potential issues associated with spaying after first heat? It's not that I disbelieve you, it's just that it's helpful to be able to read the source information. - Thanks!


Yes, sorry. It's the University of California (Davis) study:








Neutering Dogs: Effects on Joint Disorders and Cancers in Golden Retrievers


In contrast to European countries, the overwhelming majority of dogs in the U.S. are neutered (including spaying), usually done before one year of age. Given the importance of gonadal hormones in growth and development, this cultural contrast invites an analysis of the multiple organ systems...




journals.plos.org





If you scroll down the page, the table specific to females is on the right.


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