# 3 "new" breeds recognized by AKC



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

The Irish Red and White Setter, a member of the Sporting Group, is both a multi-talented gun dog and a loving, loyal companion, best suited for an active family.
http://sdm3.rm04.net/ctt?kn=58&m=2351602&r=MzYyNjQ4ODM1MgS2&b=2&j=NjU1MzY1NjES1&mt=1&rt=0 

The Pyrenean Shepherd, a member of the Herding Group, has herded sheep in Southern France for centuries, and today excels at canine sports such as Agility. 
http://sdm3.rm04.net/ctt?kn=31&m=2351602&r=MzYyNjQ4ODM1MgS2&b=2&j=NjU1MzY1NjES1&mt=1&rt=0 

The Norwegian Buhund, also assigned to the Herding Group, was bred to herd, hunt, and guard, and has an innate desire to please and quick aptitude to learn. 
http://sdm3.rm04.net/ctt?kn=28&m=2351602&r=MzYyNjQ4ODM1MgS2&b=2&j=NjU1MzY1NjES1&mt=1&rt=0


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

Thank goodness that the list doesn't include any of the doodle, poo or orki breeds!!!!!


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## dogluver04 (Jul 5, 2008)

Gwen said:


> Thank goodness that the list doesn't include any of the doodle, poo or orki breeds!!!!!


I totally agree.. i was kinda worried to look at this thread lol


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## Kirby'sMom (Feb 26, 2007)

I was thinking the same thing. I held my breath until I saw no doodles!!! I got a kick listening to the debate on TV about Obama's possible choice for a dog and they kept saying the "breed" labradoodle was perfect because it was "non shedding"!! Ya, right!! 
My sister has a cocka-poo and it wasn't suppose to shed, but, it does!!


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

So let me get this straight.
Last month, a Red and White Setter was a mutt. Today, he's a purebred?

Is there any reason to think that in a few years, with a few more generations, various doodles and poos won't be bred enough that they're producing consistent progeny, and will be recognized by the AKC?

While we may think doodles and poos are kinda ugly and don't have great temperaments, there are plenty of AKC recognized breeds that are utterly freakish and downright ill-tempered.
If this were a binary choice, I'd rather have a golden doodle than, say, a bulldog or a chihuahua. 

best
Allen


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## jwemt81 (Aug 20, 2008)

I just got that e-mail from the AKC. I was prepping myself to see "doodle" on the list as I was opening it. LOL


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Time will tell about the Doodles!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

No, the Irish Red and White was not a mutt. The AKC is not the be all and end all of dogs. Two of the most ancient, longest established breeds on earth are not "recognized" by the AKC, but that doesn't mean that they (Azawakhs, a type of Saluki like sighthound from Africa and Sloughis, another of these ancient greyhound breeds) are mutts. There are tons of very established breeds that the AKC just doesn't recognize for whatever reason.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I will also agree that I would rather have a well bred doodle if the day such a thing existed ever occured than plenty of AKC breeds lol! I absolutely hate plenty of breeds (Shar Pei, Chows, Frenchies, Bulldogs, Boston Terriers, Chis, most terriers...) for both looks and temperament. There are plenty of others I think are pretty, but horrid (Akitas, for example) and lots more that while sweet enough, are ugly as sin to me.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

With the CKC, from what I understand the new breed has to sit in the misc class, build it's numbers and then it can be approved as a breed. But, it has to actually be a breed, not a cross (so they wouldn't recognize a golden dad and poodle mom's offspring, it would have to be many, many generations of said 'doodles' bred to each other). I'd also assume they'd want a breed standard and National doodle club too. 

Most doodle breeders have a poodle stud and a bunch of assorted girls to produce goldendoodles, labradoodles, aussiedoodles, dobiedoodles..... :doh: - whatever they can sell...

Lana


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## HovawartMom (Aug 10, 2006)

All these breeds have existed for yrs and been recognized by most counties but the AKC.
They are all FCI recognized!.
I've owned 4 pyrenean Shepherds,shown them and had one litter!.
Great dogs but if you think that BC are active,PS are even,more,lol.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

avincent52 said:


> So let me get this straight.
> Last month, a Red and White Setter was a mutt. Today, he's a purebred?
> 
> Is there any reason to think that in a few years, with a few more generations, various doodles and poos won't be bred enough that they're producing consistent progeny, and will be recognized by the AKC?
> ...


 
"The AKC Board of Directors has the authority to add a breed to the list of AKC-registerable breeds if, in its opinion, sufficient evidence is presented to justify such action. 

There are a number of factors the Board considers in making this decision, including documentation that the breed in question has been breeding true for many generations, with accurate record keeping; evidence that there is sufficient interest in the breed throughout the United States; and a national club in place that meets AKC requirements to act as the parent club for the breed.

There are a number of reasons why some breeds might not be registerable with the AKC. They could include such things as lack of sufficient interest in the breed in the U.S., registry records that fail to meet AKC requirements, the absence of a national club that meets AKC requirements or no desire on the part of enough dog owners to become affiliated with the AKC.

Many of the "rare breeds" are being recorded in our Foundation Stock Service (FSS). This service is provided by the AKC to help new breeds develop and establish breeding records. It does not mean the breed is AKC recognized. It does mean there must be some parent club that is organizing and working on having the breed recognized by the AKC."

As for some of the AKC breeds being "freakish", "ugly", and "ill tempered", I will say that there are very few breeds that I have not had the opportunity to spend a significant amount of time with, whether by virtue of training, or handling. Knowing the breed standard for any given dog will often make clear why a dog may look "ugly" or "freakish" to you, and also explain idiosyncracies of temperament. There are a few breeds that I am not overly fond of, but I appreciate a good example of ANY breed.
And honestly, a well bred dog of any particular breed will not be "horrid" at all, but most assuredly are going to be different than what most who own Goldens would ever be used to.


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

Red & white Irish Setters are the older of the two breeds and some think the solid red was actually brought about with careful breeding At one time both the red & white and the solid red were shown together as Irish Setters, over in England, etc, but eventaully were seperated into red and white and just red.

Also, the solid red was so popular the red and white almost faded from existance, but have made a come back in later years. I do not know a thing about thoe other 2 breeds, but I have red up on Irish Setters as I have had 2 of them---both solid red. I have only seen one red and white Irish in "person", but there is a lady on one of the forums I belong to that has and raiss them.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I love the red and white setters! I used to have 2 red setters, about 35 years ag0. Beautiful dog but quite a challenge  Joe Buck would get loose and just flat out run. He always headed for bbq's or parties. He would come home in the front seat of a police car


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## olik (Apr 13, 2008)

Gwen said:


> Thank goodness that the list doesn't include any of the doodle, poo or orki breeds!!!!!


you read my mind.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

> As for some of the AKC breeds being "freakish", "ugly", and "ill tempered", I will say that there are very few breeds that I have not had the opportunity to spend a significant amount of time with, whether by virtue of training, or handling. Knowing the breed standard for any given dog will often make clear why a dog may look "ugly" or "freakish" to you, and also explain idiosyncracies of temperament. There are a few breeds that I am not overly fond of, but I appreciate a good example of ANY breed.
> And honestly, a well bred dog of any particular breed will not be "horrid" at all, but most assuredly are going to be different than what most who own Goldens would ever be used to.


I defer to your expertise in this, and I'm enough of an enthusiast in other areas that I can understand this impulse. 

But honestly I can do without some micro terrier that's smaller than the sandwich from the local deli. I can do without some of the breeds that are so protective of their households as to be dangerous to strangers. And I can pretty much do without any dog that needs anything more than a decent brushing. YMMV, of course. 

I'd much rather have a goldendoodle. Or better yet, a just plain mutt. 

best
Allen


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

avincent52 said:


> I defer to your expertise in this, and I'm enough of an enthusiast in other areas that I can understand this impulse.
> 
> But honestly I can do without some micro terrier that's smaller than the sandwich from the local deli. I can do without some of the breeds that are so protective of their households as to be dangerous to strangers. And I can pretty much do without any dog that needs anything more than a decent brushing. YMMV, of course.
> 
> ...


The last two sentences of your post are redundant. Because a Goldendoodle is just a plain mutt. 

Knowing the breeds is important in making a choice. I work with people helping them to choose a breed that is right for them. They are often suprised by what we come to find might be. 
And many people are often very surprised by how much they like a breed that they had adamantly stated that they hated. My husband, for example, like you, detested the even the idea of a tiny dog, until I began handling Pomeranians. The first one that lived with us completely bowled him over. (My two sons quickly saw their value as "chick magnets".) All were surprised by how "dog like" they are! They are really fun. 
I used to handle Akitas. This is a breed that requires a committment to being an exceedingly responsible owner. I admire them greatly, but personally would not want to work that hard to own a dog. I will say that I was more concerned about them with other dogs than with people, and one young male, at nearly 120 lbs, became my youngest son's best pal. Paul could stand ringside with him and while he was gentle and completely obedient with him, if someone approached him he would move in front of Paul and I doubt he'd let anyone but me get too close to him. He never barked or growled or showed his teeth, but he quietly established the fact that Paul was HIS. These are not dogs for the inexperienced owner, as is true of many working and herding breeds. 
All of that said, I have known mixed breeds that I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw the truck they rode in on. At least with a purebred dog, if you are familiar with breed characteristics, you have a better idea of their actions and reactions. With a mixed breed, you may not know what you are dealing with.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Standard of the breed is something I have always heard about with every purebred dog from every show or book......

I know everytime I have ever watched a show or read about a breed there has always been a standard they have to meet and when you look up a particular breed they give detailed descriptions on coat, height, head shape, personality and other stuff. Nothing ever about some dogs may be this or some dogs may be that. Like with goldens there may be some out of the standard in height or length they look like a golden and not some of the past breeds they were bred with all those years ago. 

Just an observation that I have seen, but with most all of the doodles out there (lab,golden,cocker) some take after the poodle and some after the other breed, or a big mixture of both and until it looks like a standard (being done by legit breeders like in Australia) then they wont ever be recognised by any kennel club. Some doodles like the goldendoodles have a coat like a golden and body style like a poodle and vise versa or a big mixture of both. And the majority of doodles are *not* hypoallerginic like they advertise. 

Just my opinion


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

avincent52 said:


> I defer to your expertise in this, and I'm enough of an enthusiast in other areas that I can understand this impulse.
> 
> But honestly I can do without some micro terrier that's smaller than the sandwich from the local deli. I can do without some of the breeds that are so protective of their households as to be dangerous to strangers. And I can pretty much do without any dog that needs anything more than a decent brushing. YMMV, of course.
> 
> ...


 
If you don't want to do much grooming, do not get a golden doodle!!! We have one that comes in, the owners wanted her to look like a mini golden (she's a mini poodle/golden cross) since that's what the breeder said she'd look like, so they kept her coat long. It took HOURS for two of us to work through and even then after bathing it was matting up again. Now they take her in for a shave on a monthly basis to keep it under control.....

Lana


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## AcesWild (Nov 29, 2008)

The Pyrenean Shepherd I thought htis was just a great pyrenese.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> The Pyrenean Shepherd, a member of the Herding Group, has herded sheep in Southern France for centuries, and today excels at canine sports such as Agility.
> http://sdm3.rm04.net/ctt?kn=31&m=2351602&r=MzYyNjQ4ODM1MgS2&b=2&j=NjU1MzY1NjES1&mt=1&rt=0


We have a nice Pyr in the area that is close to her MACH - her owner has been waiting for the Pyrs to go into full status so that she can be shown in the breed ring. 

My understanding from an AKC delegate is that there are several more foundation stock breeds that will be granted full status in the next year or so - Leos are one of them...

I've seen the red and whites in Canada...they seem like nicely tempered dogs - Not my cup of tea...but there's nothing but goldens for me anyhow 

Erica


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

avincent52 said:


> So let me get this straight.
> Last month, a Red and White Setter was a mutt. Today, he's a purebred?


No. In order to become a full-status breed (like the goldens, labs, etc) a new breed must spend a certain amount of time as a foundation stock breed. In order to become a foundation stock breed (FSS) there has to be an established studbook, and a written standard. FSS dogs can be shown in obedience, agility, rally, tracking and the setter for example was permitted to enter upland hunt tests. So all of those breeds have been involved with AKC events for years, have a closed studbook (meaning offspring of unregistered parents cannot be registered - ILP yes - but not registered).

So the announcement of these new breeds has very little to do with the breed - they were a breed (and I believe that the red and white and the Pyr are in fact older breeds than the golden) yesterday and are still...only now they can enter and show for championship points in AKC all-breed trials...

Erica


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> There are a number of reasons why some breeds might not be registerable with the AKC. They could include such things as lack of sufficient interest in the breed in the U.S., registry records that fail to meet AKC requirements, the absence of a national club that meets AKC requirements or no desire on the part of enough dog owners to become affiliated with the AKC.


The other thing that happens is when there are two "parent" clubs in the US - that disagree on several key issues. The Mudi for example - they are a FSS breed because one of the parent clubs pushed for it - the other one is fighting against the FSS standard for the Mudi. It is unlikely that the Mudi will be accepted as full status any time soon because of the bickering...

In order for the doodles to even start down the path for FSS they would have to breed doodles to doodles and have 1) a stud book, 2) consistancy in type and 3) a written standard. The vast majority of doodle breeders are breeding poodle to lab (or whatever) every litter. That kind of "cross" will never be registered as a breed with any legitimate organization (yes, there are registries that are not so legitimate). I believe the Aussies have a studbook for an "Australian Labradoodle" where they are breeding mixes to mixes with several allowed breeds to add to the lineage - so even that studbook which apparently goes back 10 years now is not "closed"..

Erica


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## ScoutsMom12 (Dec 31, 2008)

Scout has a puggle in his class.


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## Bogey's Mom (Dec 23, 2008)

Do any of you ever check the Daily Puppy (dailypuppy.com)? Today the dog of the day is a mini golden doodle. A mini?!


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