# Food alternatives for urinary acidification?



## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

I wanted to feed my girls the best food available. BUT Brandy has really high urinary pH, which can create an ideal environment for infection and crystals. 

It seems our food choices are very limited. The first is Science Diet C/D, which gave her an ear infection and makes her itch. The second is Purina EN, which she hasn't tried yet. I'm so nervous that she'll be allergic to that as well. 

Not knowing any better, we fought allergies with our last golden her entire life. Her ears were a constant source of problems. I don't want to go back to that! 

I've tried cranberry supplements, and apple cider vinegar, but neither brought the pH down to a normal level. I've even written to the more boutique dog food manufacturers asking if they have a formula that might work. 

They say to ask my vet! I've yet to find a vet who believes that goldens are prone to food allergies! They just look at me, quote statistics, and tell me I've got to feed their recommended food. 

I've heard that some dogs grow out of this condition. Has anyone dealt with it? If so, how?


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Have you tried searching out on the big World Wide Web? I can try and do some searching for you later in the week and tell you if I find anything.

Let me make double-sure I got this right... your Brandy has a HIGH pH meaning alkali and so it must be made more acidic, right? and vinegar doesn't lower the pH?


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

I've spent hours on the Internet until it made my eyes crossed. I've found references to Flint River Ranch and Newman's Own helping to MAINTAIN a normal pH, but no premium food that actually helps reduce it. 

Yes, her urine usually tests at 8, which is very alkaline. And the acidifiers I mentioned have not brought it down. 

I'm hoping someone will tell me their dog grew out of a similar condition. (The pH can rise due to infection but hers is like this all of the time.)


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

Here's what Purina En has in it: 20% min crude protein (I was told she needs a lower protein product). 

Brewers rice
corn gluten meal
whole grain corn
meat and bone meal (no identified meat source)
coconut oil, animal fat, sodium bicarbonate, soybean oil, fish oil, salt, choline chloride, vitamin E, vitamin C and several other additives. 

I'm not real thrilled with the ingredients. As far as I can tell, what lowers her acidity levels is the reduced protein and vitamin C.

I've researched Newman's Own, which has the right protein level. Has anyone ever tried it?


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

Brandy has developed an ear infection again (the only other time was also when we had her on corn-based food.) So the Purina EN and the C/D are out. 

After hours on the phone and Internet, I've found two foods that have the right levels of protein, phosphorous and magnesium but that DON'T have corn or wheat. One is available at a convenient location, one is available much farther away. Can anyone look at these ingredients and tell me if the differences are significant? 

Nature's Recipe Fish Meal and Potato
Catfish meal, ground rice, oatmeal, pearled barley, dehydrated potatoes, chicken fat (preserved with with mixed tocopherols), natural flavor, calcium carbonate, tomato pomace, sodium tripolyphosphate, flax seed, potassium chloride, minerals (zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, iron proteinate, copper sulfate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), vitamins (vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), inositol, niacin supplement, vitamin A supplement, d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, beta-carotene, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), yeast culture, choline chloride, yucca schidigera, rosemary extract. 

Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Fish
Sweet Potatoes, Salmon, Salmon Meal, Menhaden Fish Meal, Canola Oil (preserved With Mixed Tocopherols And Citric Acid), Sweet Potato Fiber, Dl-methionine, L-lysine, Sodium Chloride, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed Oil, Rosemary Extract, Natural Flavor, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin K Supplement, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid (Vitamin B-9).


Thanks!


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Brandy's Mom, I don't know enough about urine pH and its connection to diet to be of much help... so I did a quick search and found:
**********************************************
Increasing the urine volume and decreasing the concentration for a given solute has a diluting effect
on the concentration of crystalloids responsible for the formation of a particular urolith. It also
increases the frequency of urination and therefore provides less time for crystals to form. A number
of methods may be used to help increase the dog's water intake, including:
• Feeding a canned product with a high moisture level
• Adding water to a dry diet, if necessary
• Feeding a highly digestible diet, which will ensure little water loss through the feces
• Feeding a diet with a relatively high fat level, as the breakdown of fat may produce a high level
of metabolic water
• Adding moderate levels of sodium chloride (salt) to the diet to promote voluntary water intake;
however, this may not be appropriate in the management of cystine urolithiasis, where dietary
sodium levels should be restricted
**********************************************
Don't know if you'd seen it before... if not, I got it from here
I did read through some of it... but there sure is a lot of technical info there... and Waltham is the parent company of the Royal Canin brand of dog foods... have you checked them out yet?
I'll search more when I get back.


Here is the link to the Royal Canin dog food for dogs with struvite stones... its called *URINARY SO 13*
EDIT: Okay forget it I just saw it contains corn and Brandy can't tolerate it right?


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

Thanks, Monomer. The SO also increases drinking/urination which would be a good thing except Brandy has a life-long history of excessive water drinking, and excessive need to urinate even when I limit her water consumption. 

If I increased her peeing any more, I'd have to move my office to the front lawn or I'd never get any work done. 

(She's undergone liver biopsies, ultrasounds, x-rays, every kind of blood test imaginable and even exploratory surgery to find the problem, but so far the vets are stumped.) 

You'd think with that kind of drinking & peeing, she'd never have crystals according to what you found (which I've read before also), but she has at least three times. 

When we first brought her home at 8 weeks, she stood at the water bowl and drank about 6 cups of water without stopping. She's been like that ever since.


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## Mary Jane (Aug 11, 2005)

Hi,
I feed Roxie the Natural Balance Duck and Potato or Pinnacle Trout and Potato. She's been on this food since she was 4 months old (now 11 months) and I have no ear infections nor excessive scratching. My previous Golden used to have these problems and I found she was reacting to wheat, chicken and corn. I switched her to Nutro Lamb and Rice at the age of 4 and she lived to be 14 (with no more ear infections).

I decided to put Roxie on a good dog food right from the get-go.


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

I've changed Brandy to Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Fish, but after a month it's had zero effect on her urinary pH. It's low in protein, magnesium and phosphorous -- all the things that are supposed to make a difference. 

At this point, I'm just about ready to change her back to the Nutro Natural Large Breed Lamb & Rice, since that's what Jenna eats.


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