# would you still do CCA?



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I'm trying to learn as much as I can about structure, movement, and all that, but it still doesn't make much sense to me. I had someone go over Conner last year and explain everything on him, what his strengths and weaknesses were and how she could tell. But I still can't figure it out myself. All those angles and stuff are confusing!

I'd like to do the CCA with Flip when he gets old enough, mostly just for my own educational purposes. My problem right now is I'm not sure if he's going to be tall enough to fit the standard. He's so tiny right now (exact opposite of Conner - he's just barely within the max). Of course I know he still has some growing time, so this might not end up being an issue. But, if he doesn't hit the minimum, would I look really stupid putting him in a CCA event anyway knowing he has a disqualifying fault?


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

It's my understanding the goldens are all wicketed as part of the CCA; I know of someone who did enter her golden who she felt was undersized, but within that one inch deviation: "dogs up to one inch above or below standard size should be proportionately penalized." The standard for dogs is 23-24 inches in height at the withers.

When she arrived for testing, one evaluator thought her golden would not meet the standard, but sure enough, was just within the range, 22 inches. So my advice to you is to measure him. You have not stated his height.

As per the CCA, height, temperament and undershot/overshot bite are the three areas where a dog is automatically DQ'd. I can't see if the evaluators continue to rate the rest of the dog, or if they just stop the evaluation at that point. Perhaps others can chime in. 

But if you feel your golden is small, you owe it to yourself and your dog to find out how small in advance, since the entry fee to a CCA is not cheap, IMHO. Hope this info is of help.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

We're just under the 22" too. So while that'll be beneficial for USDAA agility... unless we magically get a liiiiittttle taller we're out of luck. And at 20 months... I don't know that my wishing will have as much luck as yours with Flip!  

I did not know the dogs were automatically wicketed, huge -thank- you for posting that!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

My Towhee has grown in the past half year or so and she will be 2 next month, so I would wait until Flip is older than 2 and see how tall he gets.

Faelan's most common 'fault' was a lack of maturity etc; he was tested when he was just 2. While he passed with good scores all 3 judges would have liked him to be more mature.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

RedDogs said:


> We're just under the 22" too. So while that'll be beneficial for USDAA agility... unless we magically get a liiiiittttle taller we're out of luck. And at 20 months... I don't know that my wishing will have as much luck as yours with Flip!
> 
> I did not know the dogs were automatically wicketed, huge -thank- you for posting that!


They are weighed too ...


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Hah! I'm laughing so much right now! Oh no! That's not the impression I had when I heard someone (a judge) talking about the program! My 52 lb boy would have quite a bit of problems if he was at 65 lbs. CCA will not be an activity for us.... 

But if Towee grew some... maybe we still have a quarter of an inch? Wishful thinking? Probably.

*off for breakfast and to measure dogs*

I'm going to laugh about this all day.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

All dogs entered in a CCA MUST be measured with an AKC approved type wicket. If a dog/bitch measures out of the allowable standard (+/- one inch) they may not evaluated it would be up to the club/evaluators. I would recommend having the dog measured prior to entering. If your dog is under/over size and you are a member of the club hosting the CCA event you may want to ask if you can be "test" dog. Your dog is evaluated prior to the actual event starting just as the entered dogs are. The one difference is the evaluators compare notes to try and get them all on the same page as to speak. 
Weighing of the dogs is an option as it is not an automatic disqualifying fault whether you are over/under weight. 
You can find the guidelines the evaluators use here
http://www.grca.org/pdf/events/cca/CCAGuidelinesForEvaluators.pdf

I would also suggest getting _Dogsteps, a New Look_ by Rachel Page Elliot It is a great source to help understand dog structure and how it affects movement. It has a companion DVD available called _Dogsteps _also by Rachel.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

RedDogs said:


> We're just under the 22" too. So while that'll be beneficial for USDAA agility... unless we magically get a liiiiittttle taller we're out of luck. And at 20 months... I don't know that my wishing will have as much luck as yours with Flip!
> 
> I did not know the dogs were automatically wicketed, huge -thank- you for posting that!



Who did the measuring and when was it done?
I find most of the measurements done for agility to not be accurate. And no one in agility complains if their dog is measured to be shorter than they really are. And we all know how some can postion the dog and a treat so they are not standing their tallest. My Keeper stood at just under 23" but when measured for agility they got her at 22" even. So she got to jump 20" rather than 24".


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I know the dogs are measured and DQ'd for being under height....but the guidelines say that the dogs still have to be evaluated and the notes still given to the handler. So I was thinking about it strictly from an educational purpose. Even if I knew going in that he wouldn't be able to earn the certificate, I was wondering if it would still be beneficial to enter from an educational standpoint, getting objective feedback about my dog's other aspects.

Right now he's 9 months and 45 pounds. My attempts at measuring height with a yard stick aren't real accurate, but he appears to be around 20 or 21 inches.

The fact that Towhee kept growing gives me hope since that's his auntie. Of course if he doesn't make it, it's not the end of the world. It's nice to have your dog meet the standard of the breed it's supposed to be, but it won't affect our performance career any if he doesn't.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

I've never done it--but if you can find someone to do go over him that is qualified (breeder/judge) than you could save yourself the trouble of the CCA. Especially if you pay a lot of money for no certificate.


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

GoldenSail said:


> I've never done it--but if you can find someone to do go over him that is qualified (breeder/judge) than you could save yourself the trouble of the CCA. Especially if you pay a lot of money for no certificate.


Looking at the GRCA website, the entry fees seem to be running $65, so I agree, if someone has a golden that is underheight, but wants to pay that much $$$$ for the evaluation and no certificate, well, go for it. I think it's much cheaper to make nice-nice to a couple of top notch golden breeders and catch them after a show and have them go over your golden if that's the case--saves some $$$--perhaps all you'd have to pay is a parking fee, and that's about it.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

rappwizard said:


> Looking at the GRCA website, the entry fees seem to be running $65, so I agree, if someone has a golden that is underheight, but wants to pay that much $$$$ for the evaluation and no certificate, well, go for it. I think it's much cheaper to make nice-nice to a couple of top notch golden breeders and catch them after a show and have them go over your golden if that's the case--saves some $$$--perhaps all you'd have to pay is a parking fee, and that's about it.



Good advice.
Also -- while I find structure and all that interesting -- I would ask yourself, WHY do you want to know this stuff? If it's purely so YOU can learn more about structure in general, I would tell you, do more studying of dogs at shows and talking to breeders, don't worry about YOUR particular dog. If you want to know what people feel are your particular dog's faults and strengths, then please -- for your sanity -- tread lightly when it comes to asking people. Only ask people who's opinions you really care about. Don't let someone get you down, because you bought this puppy as a performance prospect and not a show dog. Performance is 75% heart and brain, and 25% physical characteristics.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Sadly, no CCA for us either.... 21.5". Bums me out b/c I wanted to do versatility at the National since we do ability, obedience and field. I hadn't thought about him being measured small for agility, although once when I forgot the card and had to be measured on-site, that judge put him at 21.25, so he'd need to measure up anywhere between .5 and .75". 

If he's out of size range, I'd find a local breeder to go over him. And if you want the ring experience, do a couple matches.


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