# Help needed please with puppy behaviour frustrations.



## goldenpumpkin (Oct 10, 2014)

Hi.

I have a male golden retriever who is 2 years old, and another male golden pup who is just 12 weeks old. We brought the puppy into our home at 7 weeks, this is when the breeder was giving them away.

This new puppy is my fourth dog/puppy, so I have a little bit of experience with puppies. Right from the get-go there was something different about him. He was so good on the journey home (2 hours), he didn't whine, didnt potty, didn't anything. When we brought him home he was clinging to me and was afraid of our older dog.

However, after 2 days, everything changed. He became very confident, had no problems with the older dog, and was running the house. 

Here are the things I have observed from him, which upset me:

- He plays too rough with our older dog. Our older dog is very gentle, and is really a people dog. The older dog hasn't once put the pup in its place for being too rough. The pup will hang off the older dog's ears, neck, scruff, tail, legs, and he commonly makes the older dog cry/whine during 'play'. I know what play looks like, and this is play, it just seems very one-sided, with the puppy acting very rough and dominant.

- He aggresses against the other dog when play is too much. The puppy will snap, bite, lunge, and sound absolutely awful, if the older dog pushes the puppy over or bites him too hard during play, rather than squealing.

- He steals from the older dog. The puppy takes bones, sticks, toys, etc, from the older dog, very aggressively. He will approach the older dog, grab the object in his mouth, and pull it sharply. If he doesn't get it, or if the older dog touches the object again, the puppy will attack him. When I say attack, I don't mean play. It is very clearly guarding, and very aggressive at that. He will lunge at him, forgetting the object entirely, and attack him in a way that does scare me even though the puppy is so small. *Once, he went into the older dog's food bowl, while the older dog was eating, growled very loudly at the older dog, and then bit him on the muzzle, drawing a slight amount of blood. The older dog was shaking, and ran back, standing about 4 metres from the food bowl. Admittedly, it was my wrong-doing for allowing the puppy to get so close to the food bowl, but I only took my eyes off him for about 10 seconds.
*

- The puppy has what seems to be severe resource guarding problems. Once, he stole a chewy bone right from the older dog's mouth. The older dog went after it, but was of course deterred by the puppy's guarding behavior. Then, I went to go and retrieve the bone from the pup's mouth. He immediately became tense, and both of my hands were completely covered in my own blood, he had pierced my skin so badly, and I still have scars all over both hands. He seemed to forget about what he was guarding, and was just fixated on getting me to leave. When he has a toy of his own, and the older dog approaches him, he will go for the older dog. In his puppy class, he was chewing on a toy, another puppy ran past him, and he went for the puppy. He lunges, snarls, screeches, snaps and bites. He will lock his teeth in and dig them in, not letting go, as he has done to my skin.

- He humps the older dog endlessly, and occasionally humps me. I don't know if this is a sign of dominance at his age, but I thought I would mention it in case it has any worth considering the other behaviors he's showing.

- When I want to give the older dog a treat for good behavior, the puppy will chase him away, biting at him and growling, and then will come back to me for the treat I was going to give the older dog, after 'scaring' the older dog away??

We have an insensible 8 year old girl in the house, as well as a 12 year old girl and 15 year old girl. I don't know what to do???? Is this normal? Am I overreacting? Am I doing something wrong?

I thought maybe he was under-exercised, so I started taking him out for about 2 hours a day (30 min at a time), to the fields near our house, just to run around. I also play fetch with him indoors for about 30 minutes a day. Additionally, we play fetch in the garden for another 30 minutes. 

What do I do....?


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Call the breeder and take the puppy back to them.


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## Bwilson (Mar 25, 2014)

I understand your concerns and frustrations going on with your pack at home. We brought a golden puppy into our home while having an 8 yr old rottweiler also in our home. They both liked each other and her confidence and play got stronger with him. She didn't really respond to him whining or crying when she was to rough. He was being patient because he knew she was young. He eventually started discipline her stronger it took awhile and she would get so angry with him like how dare you. One thing I did different with the Rottweiler and didn't do with her was playing and gentle playing was a most as soon as he walked into the home because of the breed. I figured she was a golden and thought they would just get it. I messed up there and she thinks she can do whatever with him. I wish I had put her into time out or separate area with him to calm down when she was with him. Also making her lay down for playing so it would have been more bitey face games like i did with previous dog. She still takes stuff from him sometimes so he will play back but she always brings back a stack of toys for him eventually. For feeding the older dog gets feed and I keep her on a short lead with me and she then gets feed in the other room. By the time she gets feed he is almost done and has no interest in his food. For when she steal stuff from the other dog if he really wanted it I would keep her favorite treat with me at all times to trade. So she will pick up stuff to bring me throughout the day. River is now 10 months old and things have got better between the two. When we take her to the dog park she follows all dog etiquette and is very respectful but just not to our other dog. How old is your puppy? You can try contacting a trainer to work with you? We eventually worked it out after some time. Again every dog is different and it is up to you if you contact the breeder. I wish you the best of luck and understand wanting a happy pack and feeling guilty to the older dog for bringing in a puppy.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

I would either call a behaviorist in to help you because it does sound like resource guarding behavior. 
If you are really just ready to be done with him then I would return to the breeder and if that fails to a golden retriever rescue group.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

" I seriously, seriously hate him"

This ^^

Bring your puppy back to the breeder or to a good Golden Retriever Rescue. If you 'seriously, seriously hate' him you will be doing everyone a favor - yourself, your older dog and the puppy.


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## KeaColorado (Jan 2, 2013)

It might be worth contacting a behaviorist to come and observe the situation at your house. A professional opinion might be helpful in deciding whether there are some training modifications you can make to resolve the situation or if you should be exploring other options. What does your breeder say?


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

If you truly are done with this puppy and hate him as you state, please contact the breeder to take him back or contact a Golden Rescue. 

I adopted a puppy that came from a background where one of his first owners hated him. My almost 11 year old Toby was given up at 6 months by his first family and taken in by the local Golden rescue here. His family actually contacted the rescue about a month earlier but there were no foster homes available at the time, so the female of the family sent him to doggie day care every day until they could release him to rescue because she feared her husband would kill him if she didn't. This was on his intake paper as the reason for giving him up. I thank this woman every day for doing this as Toby has been a joy to us and given us so much happiness. I'm sure his first family is happier without him, Toby is happier with us and we are blessed to have him. I mention this to tell you that if you do go with a rescue if your breeder won't take him back, things will work out for the best for you, the pup and the new owners. I actually think it's good you realize this now and take care of it earlier in the pup's life.


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## thorbreafortuna (Jun 9, 2013)

*I want to give puppy up, I seriously, seriously hate him*

I don't see anything on this list of things the puppy does which isn't pretty normal if the dogs have been interacting without you managing their interactions. At 12 weeks old a puppy can't be expected to know any better without your consistent and loving input. There isn't a thing here that can't be dealt with. However I can't tell you that it will be easy or that it won't take time, and given your statement on the title of the thread perhaps it's better for everyone involved to return the puppy to the breeder while it can still find a home that feels differently about him. Being honest enough with yourself to recognize whether that is really where you're at or if it is only the frustration of the moment talking is your first task. If you determine that you truly hate him then by all means take him back. If not, there is help here. Many have felt overwhelmed at one point or another and ended up with the best dog ever. Take the behaviors one at a time and search the forum or ask specific questions, take your puppy to class as soon as you can and seek the advice of a trainer. Good luck.


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

Take the puppy back to the breeder. He needs a different home.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Selli-Belle said:


> Call the breeder and take the puppy back to them.


I agree. I think you should return the puppy to the breeder.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

I'm not meaning to make light (lite?) of the situation, but sometimes we feel so overwhelmed we vehemently say we hate something when were just overwhelmed. 

I fostered a 3 month old black lab puppy. He was the most vocal, voracious, and maddening puppy ever. He would attack (in the puppy sense since they don't understand boundaries) my 2 year old, Bear, to the point that he was in "puppy jail" every 15-20 minutes. We had a 6 month old puppy to play with him but he was even too much for him too. There were days I was pulling my hair out and crying after I crated him for the umpteenth time to cool his jets. 

Bear would even tuck tail and high tail it out of the mix because he didn't like the interactions. I mediated things as best as I could. And what finally took was when Bear finally got up the nerve to correct him. It was a loud and frightening confrontation for us the bystanders but nobody was hurt and the puppy learned to mind his manners better. Since Bear set the example, the 6 month old started standing up against rude puppy play and before you know it the 3 month old wasn't in puppy jail as often. 

The gist of my story is that you have a responsibility to your old dog to oversee the play between the two. To put a stop to rude behaviors and to give your old dog a chance to breathe without the puppy nipping at him. 

If you cannot do that, then by all means give the puppy back because he isn't a good fit for your family. 

If you think you can do it, then give it your best. Puppies are rude. They have no manners and think everything is theirs. If they steal a toy or a bone, take it back and give it to whomever had it first. 

If you think this puppy is developing resource guarding tendencies work on correcting that NOW.


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## tzickefoose (Sep 17, 2014)

*Wild Puppy*

I'm not sure if my methods are standard or not, but I would like to offer a couple suggestions. 

First, you may or may not have a "bad" puppy, I think it's a little soon to write that diagnosis in stone. Your pup didn't come pre-programmed to be perfect and needs consistent, loving, firm education and reinforcement as to what is expected and will not be tolerated of/from him. 

Your older dog seems to see you as boss and family leader, as evidenced by him retreating and seeking your comfort when problems arise with the pup. I would suggest that the pup needs to learn the same lesson. 

Food is a great place to start as most dogs love to eat and will give you their full attention during this time. Try blocking his access to food until he settles down and just accepts that he might not get any. Make sure he's hungry and prepare a dish of his favorite food, making sure he sees you making it. This will establish that you are the food provider. Put the bowl on the floor, with your legs between the food and the pup, preferably in a corner so you can more easily block his access to it. Stand up while give the command of your choice and begin blocking him. No other commands are needed during this process.He will eventually stop trying to get past you and try to process what is happening. This will be shown as a relaxation of body position and he will stop attempting to dart past your legs as you block him. 

When the dog stops pushing for the food and accepts his fate, praise him for following the command you gave and release the food right away. Give him a couple minutes to eat, and watch him closely. Then the lesson continues. Command back or leave it or whatever you wish and insert yourself between the food and the pup making sure he backs off and relinquishes control of the food back to you before you let him eat more.
Repeat this process, refining it as needed as your pup comes along. 
Timing is important so that he associates calm relaxation with praise and rewards. This is a core principal of obedience training. 

You may feel like a hockey goalie for a while, but the pup will get the message that you are the boss, you own the food and he gets it only when you say. In short, you make the rules and he follows. Great lesson for a rammy dog.

Another suggestion that may seem controversial to some, but I have found useful. There are times when a strong willed dog needs to have his mind cleared and be reminded that he is not the boss. 

My Winston was never neutered and as males tend to do, he tried to exert his dominance over a number of dogs. I always watched him closely and could tell that this was coming, most often by him putting his muzzle over the shoulders of the other dog. If this behavior was allowed to continue, it would inevitably lead to humping which, in the absence of a bitch in heat, is usually dominant behavior. Once Winston knew the basic command of no and down, I would give that command when dominant posturing or even that "look" came to my attention. In the event that I did not get prompt obedience, I would grab a fist full of scruff right over his shoulders and give him a few very hard shakes, commensurate to his body size. This is a very natural correction that doesn't hurt the dog and positively asserts your position of leader of the pack. I got swift results from this and he would drop to the ground and wait for my next command, showing his acceptance of the correction. Winston turned out to be one of the best dogs imaginable and he traveled around the country with me almost always off leash and was safe around all other dogs, cats, small children, etc. He was welcomed at my work and made a couple other non dog friendly people there like dogs and appreciate that good reliable behavior is a reality, given enough effort.

Lastly, I see a lot of people giving repeated inconstant commands to their dogs. I always made a point of teaching the command through rewards and repetition and then only gave it once before intervening in some way to bring the command to fruition.
Don't suggest, whine or be apologetic to your dog. Make your intentions be clear and simple, and invest the time and effort to create the dog you want.
I bet your pup has a diamond personality inside and is just waiting for the right polish.
There are lot of other things that go into training, but this should keep you busy for a while and get you started in a positive direction.
All the best, I can't wait to follow this and see it improve.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I do not suggest that anyone who sounds as frazzled and upset as the OP sounded use such methods with a 12 week old puppy. It will do more harm than good. 

It would be better to get into classes - private ones if possible. Get the kids involved with working with the dogs, getting the puppy OUTSIDE and playing frequently throughout the day (kids out there WITH the dogs)... 

I was about 10 years old when I started getting into dog training. Most junior handlers and 4H kids get into dogs much earlier than that. 

@OP - What a puppy needs is a job to do.... and a special person who is bonding with him and really taking him out and training. Giving you and the other dog a break. Put baby gates up. And really exude calmness as much as possible. It will probably help you as well as far as not becoming as upset as you sound in your post. And it will be better for your dogs. Keep in mind your 2 year old is probably picking up on your own emotions as well. 

My mom - fwiw - refers to golden retriever puppies as "puppies from hell". And basically if it were not for me and my siblings really taking care of everything that has to do with the dogs.... she would not be able to handle them until they mature and calm down. 

About now she's absolutely happy about me leaving Jacks with her if I have to take Bertie somewhere.... but there was a time where literally she would be calling me up during the day while I was at work - crying and complaining. 

Worst was when he was about 10 weeks old and I got a call from her informing me that we had to take him back, that there was something wrong with him, he was aggressive. <- I talked her into going to the vet to have a vet behavior test him and talk to her about what we were dealing with. The vet to her credit was wonderful and did not rub it in when she had Jacks lying on his back and falling asleep after she checked him out and was listening to my mom. And she put it nicely but told my mom that Jacks was teething and also was a normal golden retriever puppy. <- Stuff I told my mom, but my mom had to hear it from somebody with authority.  

I do somewhat agree with everyone else here - if you are so upset about everything going on with the puppy and there is no level of control or calm in your house - it would be better to give the puppy back to the breeder. The younger they are, the easier it is for them to be rehomed.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

I'm going to weigh in here because what you may have on your hands is a high drive puppy. We adopted Tayla when she was 4 months old and she had no rules/boundaries/training up to that point. She was over the top in everything. High drive didn't begin to cover it and we didn't even understand what that meant. At the time we had a 14 year old Golden who Tayla tormented every chance she got. In retrospect I'm sorry that having Tayla made her last year not as pleasant as it should have been, but what's done is done. I spent almost every day in tears. We had just lost my beloved Cheyenne a few months earlier and maybe I wasn't ready for another dog, but Tayla couldn't have been a worse puppy. My husband HATED her and wanted nothing to do with her. She would bit us and rip our clothes all the time. On walks she attacked like a crazed animal. I came home from most walks in tears, bloody, and bruised. Rick said many times she was making our lives a living hell and we needed to get rid of her. Around this time we learned she also had hip dysplasia. Who, I said, would want this puppy. It was a death sentence. She would never sleep or rest unless she was crated. I was exhausted and disheartened. I found this forum and got some great advise, advise you will learn from if you want to do so. Some may work for you and some may not. I also found a wonderful behaviorist/trainer who saved our lives with realizing Tayla needed a job and badly. We immediately put her in Nose Work classes. Things didn't get better right away, but they did get better. Today Tayla is just shy of 3 years old and my husband often comments on what a sweet loving dog she has become. Yes, she still has her moments of crazy dog, but we know her triggers and how to combat them. I can't stress enough that you need to find a trainer who uses positive reinforcement with your puppy. Harsh methods backfired on us. Find something for your dog to do, a job, get into a positive training class or find a positive trainer to come to your home. I feel your frustration and hope you can get help. I posted a lot during Tayla's first year so maybe some of that will be helpful. Good luck. If you are in fact done with the puppy, please return to the breeder or a Golden Retriever Rescue in your area. You owe the puppy that much.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I agree with those who say to return the pup as soon as possible to the breeder. This a baby dog, and hate & babies don't mix. It sounds like you have a pretty strong sense it is the wrong puppy for your kids and you, so rip the bandaid off and you will be also giving the pup a gift of a fresh start maybe with a different fit. I think it is way better to rehome a dog, then to resent or dislike it.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

It is absolutely ok to admit that this puppy is not the right fit for your house. Return the puppy to the breeder so that she can work with him, assess his personality and place him in the proper home. Do it immediately, this weekend while he is young and no more time has passed. His personality and temperament probably requires a different household/environment/management than you and your family are able to provide.


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

Are you crate training? I will take the baby.


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## goldenpumpkin (Oct 10, 2014)

Many thanks to everyone for your answers and helpful suggestions.

May I just say - When I wrote the original post, I was highly emotive, upset, and had just put the puppy in the crate for biting my older dog. Yes, I do get very upset sometimes by his crazy antics, but I do not genuinely _hate_ him, I would be at least willing to try to work with him to improve his behavior.

I have considered returning the puppy to the breeder. I would love to keep him, because I see a real sweetness in him and I can see how he _could_ be a really lovely dog, if the issues can be resolved. If worst comes to worst, my father, who loves the little puppy, is more than happy to adopt him. He is a great, high-drive puppy, who will be a confident, obedient dog, it's just that his current behavior seems wrong for a multi-dog household.

But, I digress, perhaps it is my mistake for not managing him well enough, as some posters here suggest - giving more frequent time outs, etc.

My main dilemma right now is how to calm him around the other dog, and to stop the resource guarding. Can I keep him on leash around the house and garden? If I let him out of my sight for 1 minute, he's usually causing the older dog stress, stolen something, digging the entire garden, etc etc etc, even though I exercise him seemingly quite much???

@Abbydabbydo: Yes I am crate training. The puppy will not sleep unless he is forced into the crate. He is running around causing havoc most times outside of it.
@tzickefoose: This is how I taught my other dog to respect my 'ownership' of the food. I have practised this with the puppy before, and he is alright at it, but can I somehow translate this method into teaching the dog to be calm with my OTHER dog? To respect his food, sticks, toys?


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Please give the pup to Marcy- AbbyDabbyDo. You will have no guilt about it, and she will give the pup a fresh start.


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## Phillyfisher (Jan 9, 2008)

+1 for Marcy, if it gets to that.

Sounds like you need to establish boundaries for your pup, and create space for your older dog. I do think you can train your puppy to respect the older dog. We did something similar with Tucker when he was a pup, with our elderly cat, Tess. She had her space, and we never let him fixate on her. All interactions were monitored, and as soon as Tucker's excitement would start to escalate, we would remove him from the situation. He grew to adore her, and treated her with the utmost respect. It was quite endearing, and I credit that training for making him approved to do therapy visits with small animals for our therapy group. tucker simply adores small animals now, be they small dogs, cats, bunnies, kittens and yes, puppies. 


We also apply the same training now when Tucker and our pup Murphy play. When either Tucker doesn't want to play, or Murphy starts to escalate his excitement, all play stops with the word "Enough!", and a well timed treat for both dogs for stopping play. Sometimes Murphy will be asked to kennel up if he is not capable of settling down outside the crate, other times he will settle without the need for crating. Because Murphy eats on his crate, he associates it with good things, so even when asked to kennel up later, he does so willingly. I would suggest you work on making the crate a positive place for your pup, so you do not need to shove him in it to settle down. 

I wish I had some advice for the resource guarding. Perhaps you can have your trainer observe and offer suggestions. In the meantime, I would suggest googling "NILF training". Nothing in Life is Free. Make that pup work for every single morsel. 

So you have a decision to make here. Either invest the time and patience to train your pup to behave like you want him to, or surrender him to someone who will. Raising a puppy is not for the faint of heart. I think I can safely say there have been times when raising a puppy that we all think, "what have I done?!?!" We all get frustrated, but the key is to take a deep breath, shake it off and proceed with love and patience. It will all pass in due time. You may just find along the way that somehow this pup has taught you a thing or 2 about yourself, and has made you better as a person than you ever could imagine. 

Remember, we don't necessarily get the dogs we want, but we certainly get the dogs we need. I pray you will thoughtfully consider what is best for you, your pup and your family.


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## Kris L (Mar 2, 2013)

I may be wrong on this and anyone may feel free to correct me on this, but I went through a similar situation with Kiba (as far as the pup bugging the older dog). When we became roomates with my sis he was introduced to her border collie and was absolutly thrilled to be in a house with another pup (they where both about 8 months). Problem was he constantly wanted to play with the collie and he did not want to play with Kiba much (border collie is working lines and just wants to work). So Kiba was constantly harrassing him and the house was crazy for a while. I was so frustrated because Kiba is generally well behaved around other dogs although he is a bit bouncy. 

What we ended up doing was placing a gate in the middle of the house and opening it at certain times and if Kiba bugged the collie he immediatly got a time out. I also kept him leashed to me alot and we went over commands and everything until he was calmer and then if he was not trying to bug the collie I let him off, but if he did I put him in time out or back on the leash. It took alot of work and a good few weeks. It ultimatly came down to the collie correcting him, loud and scary but it was quick and did the trick. They lived pretty peacfully for the next year together and I noticed the collie (who is way more mature and a bit older) actually is pretty patient and will play with Kiba now. The time outs did work pretty well though. Also letting him play with other dogs who do actually want to play helped curb his tendency to harrass the collie. I am actually surprised how layed back Kiba turned out to be and how sweet natrured he has become. As far as rescource guarding I would call a behavuralist who will be able to help you out with that if you are set on keeping the pup.


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## Rileysmomma (Feb 6, 2014)

Well, it was from 4-10 months that I wanted to take a ride to Ct and hand Riley back to his breeders! But, we've hung in there...and he's actually coming into his own. He's a terrific pup.
My issue would be that biting. Nipping is one thing, but to truly 'bite the hand that feeds you'? He has got to learn to wait for all food! Riley has actually been doing this for months.....surprisingly, it's one of the first things he mastered! He's very food motivated. I wouldn't allow your pup any food until he has settled and is seated. I would feed him small amounts at a time so he gets a feel for the 'wait' command...and starts to realize that until he can scoop out that food, you are the boss, not him!!

What would happen if you put him in an x-pen, in a main room and allowed your older dog freedom, while the pup was contained. Perhaps if the pup is too aggressive in play, he goes into the x-pen, and can watch life go on. And your poor older guy can get some peace. Be sure to have toys that are just the pups though. 

My Chappy (previous dog and as close to perfect as a dog can get) was the most gentle soul. Big boy, but man, he would love you to death! So, we would take him to my inlaws house when we stayed overnight or were going to be away for the day. My husbands brothers brought their dogs as well. Well...the wire haired fox terriers weren't an issue, but the soft coated wheaton was a nightmare! He harassed all the other dogs. If my Chappy came up to me, and I pet him? That Wheaton went nuts....snapping and growling at my dog!! He would try to dominate him constantly. Everytime he mounted my dog, the other owners in the room went nuts. I finally told them to back off...let Chappy deal with it, since the Wheaton wasn't listening to his owners. It too a bit, but Chappy got fed up with having a 'boyfriend'...he turned and snapped and growled at the other dog. Man, did that dog leave the area quickly! He left Chappy alone for a good long time...and when he came back to try it again, he got the snapping and snarling! That did the trick! 

I'm not sure your older dog will do that...every dog is different. But younger dogs have got to learn their place. I wish you luck. There wasn't a day, for close to 4 months, that I wasn't tempted to return Riley to his breeders. If you don't feel that your pup is making any headway, then return him....before he gets any older. But...be sure you give him the training he needs before you make that decision. I'm glad I didn't send poor Riley back, but it's been a long road to this point.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

My Brady ( my first golden ) was a very tough puppy and it was harder because I has young kids and an elderly dog. He was very mouthy, my hands and my kids hands looked like hamburg. I was exhausted the first three months. I remember taking him out in public, and people coming up to me and saying "It does get better." He was not my first puppy, and I have had two more since, but he was my hardest.

Things I did:

1) Kept him leashed to my waist inside the house
2) Had gates to keep have control of when he was with the kids and / or other dog.
3) Fed him and other dog in separate rooms
4) Forced him to take naps like a human baby ( when he was at his worse, I would put him in his crate, and he would fall asleep in less than a minute. At that age, I don't think he knew to calm himself down, or he was afraid he was going to miss out on something.)
5) Went to puppy kindergarten and continued on with classes. He was always an angel the day after class!
6) Tried to to teach the kids not to scream and run away from him.

Here I am 7 years later, and he is the best, well behaved, calm dog. He settled down around 8 months old. He is very attached to me.

He and the other dog became very good friends too. After about three months, they would cuddle and sleep together. 

We did have one food resource issue and that was with a high value bully stick. We did the nothing in life is free for about three weeks, and never had an issue again. Now if he has a high value treat, he has to climb on somebody's lap to enjoy it.

I read a book Golden's for Dummies while I was waiting for Brady to be old enough to come home. It actually scared me that I was getting a golden! But to hint was a surprise and it really prepared me for the worse.

Things worked out so well, I now have three goldens. The other two puppies were very easy, so not all goldens are crazy as puppies.


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## thorbreafortuna (Jun 9, 2013)

Kris L said:


> I may be wrong on this and anyone may feel free to correct me on this, but I went through a similar situation with Kiba (as far as the pup bugging the older dog). When we became roomates with my sis he was introduced to her border collie and was absolutly thrilled to be in a house with another pup (they where both about 8 months). Problem was he constantly wanted to play with the collie and he did not want to play with Kiba much (border collie is working lines and just wants to work). So Kiba was constantly harrassing him and the house was crazy for a while. I was so frustrated because Kiba is generally well behaved around other dogs although he is a bit bouncy.
> 
> 
> 
> What we ended up doing was placing a gate in the middle of the house and opening it at certain times and if Kiba bugged the collie he immediatly got a time out. I also kept him leashed to me alot and we went over commands and everything until he was calmer and then if he was not trying to bug the collie I let him off, but if he did I put him in time out or back on the leash. It took alot of work and a good few weeks. It ultimatly came down to the collie correcting him, loud and scary but it was quick and did the trick. They lived pretty peacfully for the next year together and I noticed the collie (who is way more mature and a bit older) actually is pretty patient and will play with Kiba now. The time outs did work pretty well though. Also letting him play with other dogs who do actually want to play helped curb his tendency to harrass the collie. I am actually surprised how layed back Kiba turned out to be and how sweet natrured he has become. As far as rescource guarding I would call a behavuralist who will be able to help you out with that if you are set on keeping the pup.



I do think that is more or less how managing would look. It CAN be a full time job at first for sure. I don't have multiple dogs but I had my brother's pup here for 10 days in the summer. She was younger than Thor but definitely not as rambunctious in play and when she is tired she doesn't want anyone to bug her. They like each other and would play for a while in such a way that she was initiating play and everything but when she wanted to stop he kept trying to engage her. I had to constantly manage them so that Thor, who is tireless wouldn't keep at it after she'd reached her threshold. I put up a gate and they took turns being on either side of the gate for breaks. I fed them on opposite sides of the gate as well to prevent them from going for each other's food. We also used crates and time outs as needed. Once I figured out the dynamics I was able to intervene BEFORE she started to get annoyed. By the end they were understanding each other better, but if they lived together I'm sure I would still have to manage it, because my boy can be so intense. He is a very calm pup in the absence of a play mate though, it's really different when there are multiple dogs. 
To the OP: I suspected that you had posted at a moment of intense frustration. You got some good suggestions in the most recent posts and some good leads to research. Guarding is a complex issue stemming from a very natural instinct in dogs to gather and protect the best resources for survival: It is better to work with a certified rewards based trainer on this issue. Sometimes people suggest techniques that may have worked with their dog but that aren't suited for a lot of dogs. The key to dealing with resource guarding as far as I have researched is to build trust and a sense of security as well as teaching or curbing specific behaviors. Techniques based solely on the concept of "showing who's in charge" can backfire by creating even more stress around food and resources. 
Also I think it's great that your dad is poised to take your pup if it comes to that.


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## tzickefoose (Sep 17, 2014)

*Wild puppy*

Goldenpumpkin,
You sound so much better after a nights sleep. All puppies are a handful, some more than others, and a few truly aren't a good match for the home they're in.

To answer your question in brief, yes, the same basic principle of leave it and no, or off applies to anything you don't want the dog doing. It can be food, other pets, small children, yard perimeters, furniture, etc. 

Others have rightly suggested to make sure the pup is well exercised and has plenty of diversions to focus his attentions on. This is good and must not be overlooked, but it does not replace the need for the dog to respect and obey you as the pack leader.

I searched to find out what my dog loved as treats and for Winston, it turned out to be turkey hot dogs that were thinly sliced and cooked until they were crispy. I have found that different dogs have different tastes, so you may have to try several thins till you find something that is irresistible to him. I kept a good supply around and used them for positive rewards and focal points when training did not involve the food bowl.

As your strong willed dog gets bigger and better behaved he will get further and further away and may begin to ignore your commands when out of arms reach. This is normal, but must not be allowed to stand, as it will create a dog that runs away then doesn't listen. I had a pig headed Golden male that did this until he was introduced to a training collar. It has sound and shock capabilities and Cody learned really quickly that a voice command was to be followed no matter what. It wasn't very long at all until I could call him from across the yard and he made my voice a priority over whatever he was up to.

I realize this method offends some people, and respect those opinions, but I would offer the success of this effort as evidence of it's value. This correction must be applied only as needed and must be accompanied with positive reinforcement to have maximum effectiveness.To me it's no different than electronic fences, it just is manually controlled.

In closing, I'm so glad to hear that you are moving forward, we will support you and share in the progress of this effort. I am still too new to this forum for PM's but would like to make myself available to you whenever the need arises. Please keep us posted!!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I am a total dog person and I remember how frustrated I was when I got golden#2. At the time, perfect golden # 1 was five years old. And yikes, my kids were 2 years 9 months and 9 months old...and I added a high drive,bred to work golden. I thought since I so easily got a CD and CDX on a primarily show bred golden, that the answer was to go to working lines to make it even easier! Ha! In addition, at the time, we didn't know yet what the extent of my older son's learning disabilities were.... Laney was a handful. I tell people I always loved her, but didn't like her until she was a year of age. When I finally took her for training, she was a different dog. She needed her brain exercised. She turned into a wonderful obedience show dog. I always called her my blonde border collie. I definitely used gates to keep her separate from the older dog to give the older dog a break. And my guys as pups usually eat in a crate...because my older dogs will go after their food... If you make the commitment, it will start with training...


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

And do not mistake confidence for being "strong willed." My Laney was extremely confident...some would mistake that as being willfull. I think assigning that trait to dogs is tricky. From my own experience, my confident puppy was just that, she had no agenda... Her breeder called her "dominant" after her temperament testing. She told me that I should forcibly put her in a supine position until she submitted. I did that once for about one half second and realized that if I forcibly held her down, I would create other bad issues....most behaviorists say that dominance only exists with the species, not outside...


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Just wanted to add... our first golden who was pinned for everything on the recommendation of that crazy old bat we were taking puppy classes from... he progressed from having the usual puppy behavior (seeing what works) to sctually becoming fairly reactive and a bite threat. Irresponsible and inexperienced ùse of bullying training tactics have that result and you could wind up ruining your dog. 


We use (fair) corrections - but not without understanding the dog and maintaining calm and only doing the barest mininum correction that the dog needs and moving on. It also means not setting dogs up to fail... which is where management comes in. Get your kids involved (if they are nice) have them help you. Reason why do many family dogs "fail" and are given up is you have one family member doing all the work - when they themselves did not even want the puppy to begin with.


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## golfgal (Dec 31, 2013)

Puppies are insane little biting machines at that age. I too kept my kitchen gated up and monitored the interaction between the two dogs. Play for a couple of minutes, settle down, play a bit more, settle down and when puppy got insane, he played in kitchen by himself while Rosco had freedom of the house. 

Very different energy and drives. Crate/kitchen for nap times for puppy. Rosco loved playing with the puppy so it was probably me worrying about the puppy hurting Rosco more than anything due to puppy overzealous-ness. Which is different from your situation it sounds like. 

Granted I did not have food/resource guarding issues that you have, Murphy was just crazy with energy and excitement. I kept him leashed to me when I got their food ready and he wasn't being release to get food until he was sitting and calm. Many times Rosco would be done eating before Murphy got his. I also feed Murphy in his crate for the first couple of weeks. Food would be inside crate and Murphy would be going insane trying to get at crate but no way was he going to sit and be quiet. It took time. 

I also understand that with kids and time commitments, this may not be the right time or the right pup. You've gotten some good options on that score.


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## goldenpumpkin (Oct 10, 2014)

tzickefoose said:


> Goldenpumpkin,
> You sound so much better after a nights sleep. All puppies are a handful, some more than others, and a few truly aren't a good match for the home they're in.
> 
> To answer your question in brief, yes, the same basic principle of leave it and no, or off applies to anything you don't want the dog doing. It can be food, other pets, small children, yard perimeters, furniture, etc.
> ...


Seems like I cant PM at the moment... I need more posts apparently. email?


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Goldenpumpkin*

Goldenpumpkin

You need 15 posts in order to send a private message.
As far as your puppy, if you really hate him, give him back to the breeder or to a Golden Retriever Rescue. 
Here are the Golden Retriever Rescues:
http://www.grca-nrc.org/localrescues.html

Most of his antics sound like a normal puppy to me.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Oh no! I'm so sorry that you are going through this! I pray that you do not give up on him. It sounds terrible what he is doing, but there should be hope. Try trade in which you offer something else in exchange for the thing he has. You should reward him lavishly when he takes the alternative treat. Sending positive thoughts and wishes for the two of you to overcome. However, if you must give him up, please make sure he goes back to the breeder right away or to a Golden Rescue as soon as possible.


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## tzickefoose (Sep 17, 2014)

Goldenpumpkin, my direct email is [email protected]


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

Seriously, talking about shock collars to a person with a 12 week old puppy?


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## goldenpumpkin (Oct 10, 2014)

cgriffin said:


> Seriously, talking about shock collars to a person with a 12 week old puppy?


I spoke to someone yesterday. On observing the puppy he actually said to me that these kind of puppies do well with remote collar training and firm but well-timed corrections.

He explained that the reason for a lot of his behavior is due to the puppy being very high-drive, and due to his high prey drive. Telling him off only aggravates things, and even scruff-shakes only aggravates things. It gives him more drive. He doesn't calm himself in the crate, so that's not an option for calming him down.

The guy's track record is 45 years of breeding working dogs, many of which are being used in the forces and for great work. He seems to me as though he really knows what he's talking about.

I basically have to walk the pup briskly for about 2.5 hours per day to get him to the point where he will calm just a little bit. Otherwise, he is virtually unmanageable without crating him 70% of the day. And when I say calm down, I don't mean 'calm down'. I mean, calm down a LITTLE BIT to the point he is MANAGEABLE. And barely, at that.

Today, he has bitten me in 4 places whilst guarding my sock. I wouldn't have believed puppies this age could draw so much blood, and my hand is in a lot of pain, as surprising as it may sound. His teeth ripped through my hand about 2cm while I tried to pull it away as he had clenched down on it.

I understand that the puppy is not being 'bad'. He is just being him. But how can I manage this? I do want to keep him, I would love to make a breakthrough, but he is so stressed himself, and he stresses me, the family, and my other dog out. Am I even 'allowed' to walk him so much? We play constant fetch throughout the time he is out of the crate too, as well as allowing him to romp around in the garden, which is fine other than the fact that it is nearly completely destroyed from his crazy digging and ripping out of the grass already. Like seriously.

What am I actually supposed to do?


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## dezymond (May 3, 2012)

goldenpumpkin said:


> I spoke to someone yesterday. On observing the puppy he actually said to me *that these kind of puppies do well with remote collar training and firm but well-timed corrections*.
> 
> He explained that the reason for a lot of his behavior is due to the puppy being very high-drive, and due to his high prey drive. Telling him off only aggravates things, and even scruff-shakes only aggravates things. It gives him more drive. He doesn't calm himself in the crate, so that's not an option for calming him down.
> 
> ...


Just about anyone who supports remote collars will say this. The well-timed corrections apply to other methods of training as well. Some think the shock is cruel, but it really isn't painful at all.

I personally don't think you should resort to this option quite yet. However, I understand you feel cornered and are out of options. If I were in your shoes, I would first seek the help of a trainer in a private setting, not a class setting, for now at least. From there graduate to group classes/puppy classes and see how he does there. 

I'd save the remote collar for a last resort, but I will say this, I've never seen a badly behaved dog that was trained on a remote collar. Many, especially Goldens, go on to be excellent dogs and without the need for the remote collar eventually.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

No, walking 2.5 hours is not allowed all at once, but in 20 minute increments it should be fine. What the dog needs is a job. Lots of jobs out there you can train them to do. If you read my posting you know I know exactly what you are going through. I didn't have kids, but I did have a senior dog. Training calming things is very important. Here is one of many articles Training a Hyperactive Dog to Calm Down - Whole Dog Journal Article on different things to do. Stay away from Cesar Milan. As I pointed out in my post you need to stay positive because negative doesn't work. I would seriously question a shock collar on a dog that age. Look into works by the late Sophia Yin and Patricia McConnell. It's all in the training of these high drive dogs. I would also check in your area to see if you can find any Nose Work classes. It was a blessing for us. Here is a link Certified Nose Work Instructor Listing | NACSW. If no one in your area look for scent work classes. In most states they are becoming popular. Teach the dog to do things. There are some great videos on Dogmatics. Here is the link https://dogmantics.com/. Although too young at this point, agility will be a good thing to start into a bit later or if you have a pool or a friend has one, swimming burns off lots of energy.


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## goldenpumpkin (Oct 10, 2014)

Tayla's Mom said:


> No, walking 2.5 hours is not allowed all at once, but in 20 minute increments it should be fine. What the dog needs is a job. Lots of jobs out there you can train them to do. If you read my posting you know I know exactly what you are going through. I didn't have kids, but I did have a senior dog. Training calming things is very important. Here is one of many articles Training a Hyperactive Dog to Calm Down - Whole Dog Journal Article on different things to do. Stay away from Cesar Milan. As I pointed out in my post you need to stay positive because negative doesn't work. I would seriously question a shock collar on a dog that age. Look into works by the late Sophia Yin and Patricia McConnell. It's all in the training of these high drive dogs. I would also check in your area to see if you can find any Nose Work classes. It was a blessing for us. Here is a link Certified Nose Work Instructor Listing | NACSW. If no one in your area look for scent work classes. In most states they are becoming popular. Teach the dog to do things. There are some great videos on Dogmatics. Here is the link https://dogmantics.com/. Although too young at this point, agility will be a good thing to start into a bit later or if you have a pool or a friend has one, swimming burns off lots of energy.


I was thinking about this today, I'd like to get him into some nose work classes - he likes to use his nose and he's keen on scents. Would these places take a puppy of his age? I guess that is what has held me back. What are some nose work classes/organizations you know of so I can have a look to see if there are similar places in my area. Thanks!


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

Click on the link in my post and it takes you to the official site. Several other organizations are getting in on it. We started Tayla when she was 6 months old, but I don't think there is a age limit. All dogs are worked individually so there is not interaction between dogs.  You can also order a video from that site I listed that shows how to start it if you don't have some place in your area. Super simple. Keep it fun and positive and they will soon learn it's a job. Tayla goes nuts when she sees her nose work harness. We only use it for Nose Work or tracking and she loves both. Tracking is another great thing you can do on your own or find a club in your area where they do workshops and seminars.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

goldenpumpkin said:


> I spoke to someone yesterday. On observing the puppy he actually said to me that these kind of puppies do well with remote collar training and firm but well-timed corrections.
> 
> He explained that the reason for a lot of his behavior is due to the puppy being very high-drive, and due to his high prey drive. Telling him off only aggravates things, and even scruff-shakes only aggravates things. It gives him more drive. He doesn't calm himself in the crate, so that's not an option for calming him down.
> 
> ...


It is, unfortunately, totally normal for a 12 week old puppy to bite. They are called land sharks at this age for good reason. It is how they explore and play with everything in their world. But unfortunately again for us their teeth are sharp as razors, so it is common for puppy owners to have lacerations and look like they lost a fight with a tree grinder. That part will get better as he gets older, make sure you keep toys and chews on hand to literally put in his mouth in place of skin or clothing and really encourage him to bite them and play with them instead. It will take persistence, and you will still get bit until he learns. Use baby gates to separate him from the other dog and you when he is too wild. 

12 weeks is just a baby, and 2.5 hours of walking seems like a lot unless it is broken up into several walks, but if that is really what it takes to slow him down a little just be sure you are not walking him on hard surfaces the whole way. Soft surfaces like grass and dirt will lessen the impact on his growing joints and bones.

I would encourage you to really think about what you want in a family pet. If he really is a high drive, high energy puppy, then he will be a high drive high energy adult. It will require work and effort for 8+ years (guessing seniors slow down some) of his life to give him positive outlets and direction for his energy and drive. Is that what you want for your family and yourself? 

If you really wanted a more calm, cuddle bug that requires only the average and usual exercise and effort, then it would be best to return him to the breeder now while he is still young and can be rehomed with someone who can meet his needs. And you can find a puppy with the right personality and energy level for your family.

(please do not consider a shock collar for a 12 week old puppy).


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

*I want to give puppy up, I seriously, seriously hate him*

The idea of a shock collar doesn't offend me, when used appropriately on age appropriate animals. The thought of using a shock collar on a 12 week old is frightening. From my understanding, shock collars shouldn't be used before the dogs are 6 months old. 

Why not use other training methods in the meantime and keep the shock collar option as a last resort? I understand the frustration with high energy, high drive dogs. And with resource guarders. Granted my experience was with two seperate puppies instead of one with both marks against them. But it can be done. Resource guarding CAN be trained out. We used the book, "Mine!" By Jean Donaldson to help us through training Bear and it worked great. I also had bloody arms and hands from his sharp little teeth. That was regular play while we taught him bite inhibition and proper ways to engage humans in play. There was one time he sliced my finger open over a carrot he had that I went to move. I gushed blood a good long while and was terrified I would need stitches. But it healed and we found different ways to approach the situation. We consulted trainers and books and other forum members who dealt with similar situations and while I will never say he won't guard ever again, it's in remission for the most part. 

As for the high energy and drive dog, it took A LOT of training and mental stimulation to get him to a place that he wasn't tearing blankets and furniture up. Dominance training does NOT work with him. Because it just exasperated the situation. So every day his meals were fed through treat balls that he had to work for. We did about 10 mini training sessions a day to work on basic obedience like attention, sit, down, come, etc. 

He played fetch for 20 minutes a day and we would go on a quick 20-30 minute walk. He was crated with an appropriate and safe toy when we weren't home or if he needed to chill out. He learned quickly how to entertain himself in the crate, which helped him learn how to settle in the house. 

All this was done with positive reinforcement. And he excelled and flourished under praise (instead of the frustrated corrections for every wrong doing). He became a different dog when we really worked his brain. 

Perhaps you can try this if you want to give it a go. Otherwise, I highly recommend you look and see if your family wants a high energy dog. If it's going to be 15 years of "this dog is driving me crazy" send him back to his breeder so a family more suitable for him can be picked. It's not a mark against you if you give him up. It's an act of compassion for both your family and your puppy.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

While you may love this puppy a great deal, you need to ask yourself if he really is right for you and your family. You said he's stressed and so are you. Like Kristy said, a high energy puppy is going to be a high energy dog, and this is something that you're going to deal with for years. Giving him up may seem cruel, but isn't it more cruel to have to resort to a shock collar for a baby to get the behaviors you want? 

My best friend has a Lab, I love that dog almost as much as I love Max, but I couldn't live with him for a day. There's nothing wrong with saying that this dog is not right for you.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

It sounds like there just really isn't a good fit between you and your situation and this pup. If you're going to send him back to the breeder the sooner you do it the better for the pup. Please do not put a shock collar on a 12.5 week old puppy.


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## JMME (Jun 18, 2012)

We have a collar for Ripley. It has three settings low, medium and high. On each of these settings, there are 7 levels. Ripley has never had to go past 4 on low. My husband and I have tried it on our bare skin and it doesn't hurt (maybe a slight pinch and he has fur). There is also optional vibration or beep settings and he responds super well to the beep! We put it on him when he runs because he loves to greet people and sometimes all recall goes out the window, but I rarely have even had to use the beep setting. It's just more of a precaution. Maybe finding a training collar that has many settings and instead focuses on low stimulation and vibration/noise would be a better option. With a puppy, especially that young, I would be worried that shocking him at all would increase aggression because of a fear response and cause more damage. I would be more inclined to work with a trainer and focus his energy on another task that is both physically and mentally stimulating like previously mentioned. Also, like others have said, maybe this puppy just isn't the right fit for your family and would be a great fit for another. I'm sorry you guys are going through all of this!


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## NewfieMom (Sep 8, 2013)

He is just the wrong dog for *you*. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with either him or you. In the lingo of my profession there is no "goodness of fit". I agree with everyone else who said to return him to the breeder or to a Golden Retriever rescue organization. You need a Golden who is calmer. And there are many of them available. I hope that when you choose your next breeder you make sure that the breeder is known for dogs with lower energy (definitely not field dogs) and dogs who are meant to be with families! But I absolutely do not mean to imply that the problem is your fault. These things happen all the time. You can remedy it since you identified the problem while your dog was still young enough to be returned or rehomed easily!

I wish you good luck!

NewfieMom


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## NewfieMom (Sep 8, 2013)

JMME said:


> We have a collar for Ripley. It has three settings low, medium and high. On each of these settings, there are 7 levels. Ripley has never had to go past 4 on low. My husband and I have tried it on our bare skin and it doesn't hurt (maybe a slight pinch and he has fur). There is also optional vibration or beep settings and he responds super well to the beep! We put it on him when he runs because he loves to greet people and sometimes all recall goes out the window, but I rarely have even had to use the beep setting. It's just more of a precaution. Maybe finding a training collar that has many settings and instead focuses on low stimulation and vibration/noise would be a better option.


JMME-

I know you mean well, but even the discussion of shock collars in detail does not seem necessary to me. Using a shock collar on a puppy of this age would be an egregious error, tantamount to abuse.

NewfieMom


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## brendadavis44 (May 6, 2014)

I think the puppy needs a different home- doesn't sound like a good fit. Puppies are a full time job- done with Love.


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## JMME (Jun 18, 2012)

Newfiemom, my point was that you can use "training" collars that focus on vibration and sound. I also mentioned that I thought the use of a shock collar, especially on a dog so young, would be a mistake.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

You need to give the puppy back. It is clearly not a good fit and feeling the way you do about him any tool in your hands with anger is just not a good fit. I have two field bred males and no matter how frustrated I was with them I would have never said I hate them.


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## tzickefoose (Sep 17, 2014)

*Wild Puppy*

Since I was the one to introduce the subject of employing a shock collar, please let me clarify that it was never with the intent of using it with this or any 12 week old pup. I meant but did not make clear that it is a more age advanced method. I agree with the sentiment that it would potentially harmful and destructive at this age. and should only be employed at a later age and only for very specific situations. 

My own personal experience using this method has been nothing but over the top successful, with the end result being solid, reliable, very happy and safe dogs. I never meant to imply that this is THE WAY to do it, only that it is my own experience. 

I apologize for raising the dander of several posters and I hope this clears the matter up..That said, lets please continue to be constructive, and not critical in our input to Goldenpumpkin.


If a broad ranging debate is to be held on training methods, including shock and training collars, my opinion is to begin a new thread elsewhere.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

NewfieMom said:


> JMME-
> 
> I know you mean well, but even the discussion of shock collars in detail does not seem necessary to me. Using a shock collar on a puppy of this age would be an egregious error, tantamount to abuse.
> 
> NewfieMom


I wholeheartedly agree, especially with so much anger and frustration already exisiting. 

Having raised puppies from birth with so much awareness of each developmental milestone and the fragility of little pups, it is so sad to me to think of a pup who has only been on this earth for 12 weeks to have elicited so much negative emotion. A few weeks ago, this same puppy's ears and eyes were still closed and it was learning its first toddling steps.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Responding from a different viewpoint from my original post and completely agreeing with Titan1's response as well.

If one of my puppies was so hated by their new owner, I would certainly want the puppy back!! 

My girl has had 2 litters and I currently could not imagine my life without one of her puppies who was unwanted and returned at 10 weeks old - when a new home was found within days by his co-breeder my response was that he had found his home - with me and his mama. He is a wonderful dog but he needed a different home and luckily the original owners realized the mis-fit close to immediately and were strong enough to return him before he was harmed. They ask about him now and again but their choice was made long ago.

Please do the same for your puppy. Bring him back to his breeder so a better fit for his temperament can be found.



Sunrise said:


> " I seriously, seriously hate him"
> 
> This ^^
> 
> Bring your puppy back to the breeder or to a good Golden Retriever Rescue. If you 'seriously, seriously hate' him you will be doing everyone a favor - yourself, your older dog and the puppy.


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## goldenpumpkin (Oct 10, 2014)

Hi again everyone, I just want to clarify some things so nobody has concerns.

Let's calm this down a little bit.

Firstly, I thought shock collars and training collars were very different things. The static shock is very different from a low level vibration or a beep. I wouldn't ever dream of using a shock collar on any puppy, heck, not even a grown dog. It is nice that you are so concerned for the welfare of the puppy, and thank you for your comments, but please be rest assured that I would definitely choose to return the pup than to put him through any undue distress like that.

I also want to let you know that I feel very differently now than when I first wrote the thread. I haven't ever genuinely hated the poor boy, but rather have been frustrated and upset by the guarding behavior, which led me to use the words I did. I am regretful for terming it 'hate' now and feel upset for him. Don't we all make small mistakes, especially under stress or frustration? Having young pups is usually somewhat stressful for everyone I would have thought, especially high energy ones. I have been working more with him on a daily basis, positive training, getting his attention, interrupting over-rough play, etc, and *he is becoming a joy to be around*.

In fact, I've already decided that as soon as his joints are developed enough, and that's going to be a while yet, I'd quite like to run with him maybe once a day. And I'm really excited about that.

Please don't get me wrong and stress _yourselves_ out. I know it's easy to critisize and get wound up by what people say, but at the end of the day, I'm just asking for advice.

It seems like Tayla's Mom and tzickfoose know what I'm talking about. This isn't just your standard, energetic pup. I think Tayla's Mom said that her husband/partner wanted nothing to do with Tayla at first, but has grown to love her. I believe my pup has similar behavior as Tayla at that young age - very challenging. In previous moments of high-stress, and *yes,* he does sometimes stress me out, and I think he will for a long time coming, but perhaps that means there is something I have to change about myself, rather than him.

Thanks for the help, I appreciate your concerns and comments.

Again, please do not mistake my original words for my true feelings, I know they were misleading, but I am really starting to see something in this pup, but these behaviors *DO* need to be resolved.

I probably am quite a highly-strung, stress-prone individual myself. But I see the pup in a different light now, it feels more of a blessing to have him than I initially realized.

I'm not giving him up, but don't take this the wrong way. I won't be using a shock collar on the poor thing. Crazy


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

goldenpumpkin said:


> I spoke to someone yesterday. On observing the puppy he actually said to me that these kind of puppies do well with remote collar training and firm but well-timed corrections.
> 
> He explained that the reason for a lot of his behavior is due to the puppy being very high-drive, and due to his high prey drive. Telling him off only aggravates things, and even scruff-shakes only aggravates things. It gives him more drive. He doesn't calm himself in the crate, so that's not an option for calming him down.
> 
> ...



Listen, there are plenty of people who use training collars as an effective tool with an older dog. But they are NOT used to teach basic obedience and they are never used on a puppy. This collar is not part of a viable equation at this point. I very much respect a trainer with 45 years of dog experience. And if he feels that your puppy is a high drive dog, I'd say he is probably correct and you'd do well to enter this information into the equation. However, I have a big concern if he is mainly involved with WORKING dogs and working breeds, your statement leads me to believe more like German Shepherds or Belgian Malinois types, have I mis-read this? Does he have extensive experience with PET dogs and specifically with Golden Retrievers? This is something to consider. It is not the same thing.

I really, really hope that if you purchased this puppy from a reputable breeder that you will contact the breeder and discuss this. We have all weighed in and told you that you need to return this puppy to his breeder. He is going to be a long term training project and you will have no overnight fix. There is no quick fix. It will be a LONG TERM investment of training, exercise, daily practice, management and patience to make this puppy into the great dog he can be. He is not going to be a "simple" lay down and be easy to live with dog. It just isn't going to be that way. 

I have figured out that you do not live in the U.S. - have you discovered the forum board specifically for the UK? You are absolutely welcome here but I am thinking they may have more ideas for you and more local contacts.


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## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

Hi, there s a UK section if you are from UK and would like to join us there. Go to 'community' and then 'social groups' and you will find us there :wavey:


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## kbear (Aug 27, 2014)

just wanted to say hang in there goldenpumpkin. I have a 10 week old that is try my patience too! her biting has gotten much harder and she's drawn blood a few times from my hands so I know what you're going through! I have every kind of chew toy / bone there is and she seems to prefer my hands. when she gets too wild I just put her in her crate. I keep telling her it's a good thing she has such a sweet face


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## KeaColorado (Jan 2, 2013)

I just read a facebook post from a highly respected trainer who compared a puppy like yours to owning a Ferrari that you don't yet know how to drive. 

I agree with the above posters who have indicated that this puppy is going to be a project. He has great potential, and if you are willing to put in the time (as in...a structured routine, exercise and training daily, finding a trainer who is up to date on the latest evidence-based methods for effective dog training, getting him involved in some sort of sport where he can learn to do a job - field training, agility, obedience, etc.), you could have yourself a real gem down the line. If not, there is no shame in giving him back to the breeder because he is the wrong puppy for your circumstances.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I'm going to throw this out there, for what it's worth.

I have noticed that on the days we take Mr. Darcy for long, off leash walks at the farm, he is much more revved in the evenings that he is on the days when we have moderate exercise.

Be aware of the difference between high energy and exciteable. Our Penny was excitable but in the beginning I thought it was energy. I made the situation far worse than it needed to be because I kept exercising her and playing games with her. She was a nutjob by from 3:00 until 9:00.

We've toned it down with Mr. Darcy. Some short walks, some short sessions of fetch, and some tug and toss in the house.

Think about whether your puppy might be over stimulated.


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## Susabelle (Oct 7, 2014)

goldenpumpkin said:


> I also want to let you know that I feel very differently now than when I first wrote the thread. I haven't ever genuinely hated the poor boy, but rather have been frustrated and upset by the guarding behavior, which led me to use the words I did. I am regretful for terming it 'hate' now and feel upset for him. Don't we all make small mistakes, especially under stress or frustration? Having young pups is usually somewhat stressful for everyone I would have thought, especially high energy ones. I have been working more with him on a daily basis, positive training, getting his attention, interrupting over-rough play, etc, and *he is becoming a joy to be around*.
> 
> In fact, I've already decided that as soon as his joints are developed enough, and that's going to be a while yet, I'd quite like to run with him maybe once a day. And I'm really excited about that.


Excellent! I've been reading through this post and two things came to mind...the first was when my sister called me sobbing one time (many many years ago) that she HATED her children (3 under the age of 5 at the time). She didn't really hate them of course, but they had just gotten up in the middle of the night and she woke to a dirt track made of pancake mix, eggs and flour all over her kitchen and living room floor.... she thought she had spawned a pack of devil children...

The second reminded me of my trials with our 9 yo Shepherd. When we got her, I had over 20 years experience with the breed and thought I was up for a higher drive dog which we got in our Ava girl...and then some! Even my trainer (that took me months and months to find the right one), who worked with high drive dogs in S&R, protection and scent work called her the "wild child"...Oh man! What had I done! But she was a joy! So happy ALL the time, LOVED everyone, enthusiastic about EVERYTHING she put her mind to, and let me tell you, she WAS creative. She was a highly independent thinker too. I did not want to destroy her zest for life, and yet all the training methods I knew were failing horribly with her. She needed to be mentally stimulated...not just wore out physically. Anyway, the trainer I finally found helped us turn it around. And here we are, 8 years later, getting ready for a Golden puppy and we still have our amazing Ava girl. And she is a WONDERFUL dog, but there were times I seriously thought I must have lost my mind to think I could handle this dog. Ava actually loves obedience, she throws herself into downs, hurls herself into heal position, races to her "place" on command. She's 9 and she still is immediate in her reaction to her commands. It is still a game to her, and she loves games. Well, she has slowed down some... but even her vet has to triple check her age every time she sees her.

Anyway, I just wanted to share, that with love, an excellent trainer that is experienced with high drive dogs and a lot of patience, dedication and praise. You could end up with the most amazing dog.

I truly wish you the best.


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