# opinion on Shor'line goldens



## debbie624 (Aug 10, 2018)

Hello everyone, again. Thank you to everyone who has helped verify pedigree info. I'm still looking at breeders and have spoken to Shor'line today about her current litter. I checked OFA and some clearances are missing and I assume bc she hasn't put them in yet. She seems very concerned about the health of her dogs and states she's done all the health clearances. I really liked everything she had to say. Wondering How do I know for sure they were done if not in the OFA. I would love some feedback from those here who are experienced in looking at the pedigree info. Here is the info. I tried to look up the sire and dam individually and I could only find the sire individually. Not sure why that is. Thanks for your help.

Pedigree: SeaBee x Hatteras


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Hmm.....I would ask her about it if our resident experts don’t find your answer. I’ve met her and she seemed to be a nice person. It was a chance meeting. We got to talking and figured out who our dogs were. My boy is a great grandson of Mariner.


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## debbie624 (Aug 10, 2018)

Thank you. I emailed her to get more info as to why not all the health clearances aren't on OFA. She seemed very nice and knowledgeable. One other thing that I am unsure of is that I think I read on this forum that it is a red flag if breeders advertise on a marketplace and she is advertising on the AKC marketplace. However, I have read on this forum that Shorline has a good reputation. So not sure what to think about this. She also owns both sire and dam and I have read that it isn't ideal for a breeder to own both, that when a breeder has both, it could mean a breeding for convenience. She however seemed to have a good reason to breed the sire and dam as they are both from very sound pedigrees of Sailor and Mariner. Looking forward to more opinions and feedback. Thanks so much.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

I think I would pass on this litter.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

So the COI means you have a 20% chance of inheriting alleles directly from one of the 5 dogs listed in the genetic info. Just over 7% of that is on Mariner.


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## debbie624 (Aug 10, 2018)

Is that bad? I read somewhere on our forum that a high COI isnt necessarily bad if the inbreeding was done to increase the good traits of a particular dog. The breeder spent a lot of time talking about both Mariner and Sailor and how awesome they are and that was the reason for breeding their pedigreees (if I am saying that right). However what concerns me is that the dam is not documented in OFA database nor is she in k9 database individually. And I dont see any championship info on the sire and dam, but a lot on Sailor and Mariner who are I beleive grandparents or greatgrandparents. I'm not an expert but I wonder if those are red flags. She seemed knowledgeable and has been referred to on our forum as a reputable breeder. But I'm just not sure.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Idk what you mean by individual records- I find them on both sites- sire: https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1940268
Pedigree: Shor'Line Son of a Son of a Sailor (lacking cardiac and eye clearances on OFA- ask for those. If the eyes have anything but normal/normal on them , ask someone to verify that they are breeders options).

dam: https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1848059
Pedigree: Shor'Line Fair Winds and Calm Seas Lacking cardiac clearance (prob has one- but not sent in per the CoE) and eyes are more than a year out of date (again, probably has them )

You are right in that neither dog appears to have any titles - I didn't check AKC but one would imagine it would be on k9data if there were titles. 
And to the COI- it is really Mariner you probably should be doing a lot of research on. The COI on him alone is as high as many COIs in total.


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## debbie624 (Aug 10, 2018)

Prism, Is that bad then, regarding high COI on Mariner? Am I looking at the correct info to see Mariner's COI that you are referring to ?

https://k9data.com/coi.asp?ID=164686


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

For the sake of your puppy search, it might be wise to keep in mind the breeders read this forum too, often. While YES you want to do due diligence and get feedback, you don't want to preclude yourself from getting a puppy from a particular litter by vetting it publically. I am just offering this to be helpful, and have no vested interest nor ties to the litters. I met Mariner once, and thought he was a very lovely, long lived boy, and I know nothing about either of this litter's parents or his COI( haven't checked it) . This is more to the point that doing pros and con lists for each litter you find on a nationally read forum is bound to be read by that breeder. It might be good to private message Prism and Megora and a few other really trusted forum members for their opinion. It definitely has good points for education to walk through it with everyone too- so just a thought.


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## debbie624 (Aug 10, 2018)

Thank you for your feedback. I am very interested in the particular litter and really like what the breeder shared with me. I just am not very knowledgeable about how to read pedigrees. Thanks.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

I don't know this breeder but will tell you about my story. I choose a breeder (over 2 yrs ago) that had dogs from bloodlines I was familiar with. She seemed knowledgeable and had been an active breeder for over 20 yrs. with people I knew. Eyes were out of date and not listed on OFA for sire or dam. If I had been more familiar on how to read the OFA I would have also realized that the dam had hip/elbow/heart but as it turned out the exams were done with pups in utero - not what a reputable breeder would ever do. Eye exams I was shown must have been forged as 3 months after the pups they had the dams eyes tested and posted with breeder options - cataratas and sire could no longer pass eye exam.

When I met this person she must have been having a bad day or bi-polar as she was a nightmare and already had another litter in the whelping box. Her place was nasty and dogs were dirty and matted. Turns out she puts out a litter of puppies of several breeds every month. My girl has so many eye issues and seems to have gotten all the eye problems that both sides offered for several generations. Beautiful? Oh yes, my girl is gorgeous, great temperament and really smart but she will probably be blind by the time she is 5.

Just because someone sounds nice, please remember they are trying to make a sale. Once my breeder had my money it's like an alter personality took over. If they don't take the time to send in the clearances then you must wonder what other shortcuts they may be doing. In my case the breeder answered all my questions... with all the right answers and as it turns out, not much of what she said was the truth. Because my pup was going out of state there should have been a health certificate, these pups never even saw a vet, according to her vet's office anyway... even though she and her website said they were vet checked.

This place may be fine but if it were me, I would go back to the good breeder you already found and get on their waiting list. Good breeders know other good breeder and who knows, someone they know may have a litter and contact you.


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## Goldens&Friesians (May 31, 2014)

She was going to be my breeder mentor several years ago. I bought the show pick of the litter from Seraphim Goldens and was possibly interested in breeding. I reached out to her because of her living within an hour and a half of me and I really liked Mariner. She pointed me to a dog show that was hosting a heart and eye clinic to get those clearances done. She also went over April and Mariner's pedigrees to make sure she felt they were a good match. She told me where to go to get proper hip and elbow clearances after April rated borderline for hips done by my pet vet. The knowledgeable vet she sent me to specializes in OFAs and got April positioned correctly and she ended up with OFA good hips. Then she told me all the stuff I would need to buy to whelp a litter and where to get it. When my April went for her "date" with Mariner, she was able to use her own vet for the progesterone testing to breed her at the optimum time. When I took her home she told me what to be expecting as far as pregnancy and walked me through everything. She was going to let me have April come and whelp at her house so she could help me with it. But then April got pyometra (also something I didn't know about until she taught me what to be looking for) and I had to take her in for an emergency spay. So I never got to actually have puppies, but she was excellent about walking me through the steps and helping me learn- I learned sooo much from her in the year and a half or so she was helping me! I definitely would never want to attempt breeding without the help of an experienced reputable breeder! I simply can't fathom her dogs not having up to date clearances and I would guess her reasoning for the high COE must be good. I know Sailor became the oldest dog ever to receive a dock diving title-I think she was 14 years old-and she lived an active life until her death which was at age 16 I believe. Mariner was a fabulous dog who has titles in almost everything and I believe he is still alive-he would be like 13 I think. He exemplifies everything that I believe a golden retriever should be. Unless she's changed her tune since I was working with her (which was about 5 years ago or so), she should be a safe breeder to go with.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

debbie624 said:


> Prism, Is that bad then, regarding high COI on Mariner? Am I looking at the correct info to see Mariner's COI that you are referring to ?
> 
> https://k9data.com/coi.asp?ID=164686


The page you linked is Mariner's COI- I was referring to the COI of the litter, on the test breeding link you posted earlier. 

I'd be surprised if she didn't have the heart and eye clearances, but you should ask. 

I can't judge good or bad for your life- just think you should look at Mariner's offpring, etc on OFA and realize his genes are the biggest lot of what a puppy from the litter will hold.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Sounds like some pretty good recommendations from people who know. Great choice! I hope this all works out for you.


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## JMME (Jun 18, 2012)

I have one of SeaBees littermates. I’m not any kind of breed expert, so I’m just sharing my personal experience. Overall, I’ve been really happy with Jasper - he has a great drive and is very even tempered. I’ve heard people talking about dogs with an “off switch” and I didn’t really fully get that until Jasper. He throws himself 100% into any activity we do, but at home, he is really mellow. Based on my interactions with Cynthia, I have nothing but good things to say about her. The dogs health clearances were up to date. She spent a long time answering all my questions (and I had a lot). She also seems to encourage people to get more involved with the breed and directed me to a lot of wonderful resources. She also has been quick to get back to me when I’ve reached out to her. I met Mariner and Sailor in person - I hope that Jasper takes after them and can live such an active life into his senior years. If you want to check out Jasper, you can see pics/video of him on my Instagram, my_golden_boys. Again, my knowledge of breeding is mostly limited to what I’ve learned on this forum through members like Prism, so I’m not going to comment on that lol.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

A very well known and highly respected breeder for sure. She produces lovely, talented dogs. Also a very nice person.
The thing that would concern me is the high COI on Mariner, because I believe he died of oral melanoma but I could certainly be mistaken. (Edit to add-- yep, I'm wrong).
Prism, if this was in fact his COD what would you think about the high COI reflecting him? Edit to add-- checking thru my memory, I'm THINKING OF A DIFFERENT DOG. Never mind my previous comment. 
BTW, Shor'line's breeder would know about a million times more about whether or not it's an issue than I would.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I think if a Golden lives long enough he will almost certainly get a cancer.
I do wish people would update k9data w COD and DOD, there are dogs on there that are in their 20's and we're supposed to believe they are alive.


In this case, it isn't what he died of (if he did- I had not heard that but if he did, I wish she'd update k9data) but his produce that I was suggesting she research further. I knew Mariner also, my daughter showed him a couple of times and he spent a few nights at my house. Honest dog.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks Prism. I didn't know if melanoma tends to be genetic in dogs like it does in humans. And I could most certainly be wrong about the whole cause of death or whether he's even gone. I could be thinking of a different dog. (Edit to add, I finally figured out what dog I'm thinking of. It was Jetoca's Gino, who died just short of 8 of malignant melanoma. He's Mariner's sire).
As an aside, knowing this breeder I would be shocked if the sire and dam don't have full, current clearances. I suspect they're just not on OFA yet.


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