# So upset



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

As difficult as it is to imagine, not every dog is "salvageable" even with the most intense training. This has obviously been an ongoing issue. And I'm sorry, but a dog that does that kind of damage would not remain in my household. Nor would I pass it off on anyone else. 
I'm more concerned about what the grandfather is going through! How is the poor man? And how bad was the person hurt a few weeks ago?


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> As difficult as it is to imagine, not every dog is "salvageable" even with the most intense training. This has obviously been an ongoing issue. And I'm sorry, but a dog that does that kind of damage would not remain in my household. Nor would I pass it off on anyone else.
> I'm more concerned about what the grandfather is going through! How is the poor man? And how bad was the person hurt a few weeks ago?


I would like to argue with you on this and say you're wrong... but I know you're right. Not every dog, especially those with human aggression are workable and you'll never really know in the end if they are fixed. The next time you find out the dog isn't on the level is the next bite... and is that worth the risk?? If he attacked someone familiar to him.... ick.

I feel terrible for the grandfather as well. I hope he's OK... older folks don't take well to serious injuries like that.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Oh, how sad. I certainly hope the grandfather is okay! 
Since the vet is recommending this, I assume they've done everything they can to rule out a physical/medical issue? 
My thoughts are with them, whatever they decide to do.


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## DianaM (Feb 18, 2010)

Yea I understand. It's still upsetting. I didn't grow up with dogs so have never encountered this situation before. I know it happens though. 

They said grandpa is fine. I think the other person was fine. I didn't hear much about that incident.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

This is always a very difficult type of situation. Young, healthy dog, and extensive behavior problems.
Could things be different? Maybe. And this type of professional would be hte best to help the family work through all options. Is a bite bad? Yes. But a bite to the bone on the hand is VERY different than on the thigh. And we have no idea about the context. If the person was leaning over the dog.... stressed by many people coming in and out....lots of noise.... etc.... That's a lot of factors for a dog with problems already. 

As there have been multiple incidents, either the training is not going as well as it should or the management is failing. And really... management failing is always a possibility to consider. I have a friend with a very people-reactive dog. 2 doors between the dog and strangers in the home at all times. When she walks him in public, he is on 2 separate leashes and there is another person there to help if a loose dog appears. Every safety precaution is taken to give the dog a very good life. But not all dog owners are willing or capable to do this.

As I've said before... in situations like this, if the family can afford it, and ESPECIALLY if they are very attached to the dog, a consult with a veterinary behaviorist is a fabulous idea. To make everything okay? Not necessarily. But helping a family to feel their decision about euthanasia is acceptable and a good choice in some situations. Regular vets are often fabulous about this for health issues. But not always so much for behavior issues, and especially in situations like this where they have been working with a professional, etc...

I'm saying this as a dog professional (of sorts) but also as an owner who has seriously considered euthanasia for a young, otherwise healthy dog with severe behavior problems. [and now he's ten and fairly healthy but it's still somehting I think about at least once a year.]

Clarifying: The vet behaviorist may be better at the grief counseling aspect than the regular vet or the trainer... depending on the experiences and training these profesionals will have had. Grief help for owners after/before euthanizing a young healthy pet with ebhavior problems is different than the support a family with an old or sick pet needs.


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## DianaM (Feb 18, 2010)

Their trainer was closed during the holidays so she gets to finally discuss what happened today. Putting the dog to sleep is the vet's recommendation but they are going to see what the trainer thinks first. I have no idea what exactly happened when he attacked grandpa but I know they had at least 6 guests and two other dogs (german shepherd and husky) over as well. He could have gotten stressed out from everything going on and just snapped.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> As difficult as it is to imagine, not every dog is "salvageable" even with the most intense training. This has obviously been an ongoing issue. And I'm sorry, but a dog that does that kind of damage would not remain in my household. Nor would I pass it off on anyone else.
> I'm more concerned about what the grandfather is going through! How is the poor man? And how bad was the person hurt a few weeks ago?


If it were my dog, I don't know what I would do- but I have to agree here. Not every dog can be fixed, or rehabilitated and not every owner can spearhead such a massive undertaking.


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## TomCat'sGirl (Aug 27, 2010)

When I was a young girl (5th grade) I was visiting my girlfriend for a sleep over and I was attacked by their Boxer he just about chewed my left arm off, knocked my front tooth out, put a whole through my lip and deep deep scratches down my back. I had over 300 stiches in my arm alone. It left me with a paralizing fear of dogs all dogs for years and years. I am just learning to walk Cash on my own. I know it sounds crazy but with a dog approaching me when I have Cash I instantly freeze up. The leash is handed off to my husband. I need puppy class just as much as Cash does. I had a bit of fear passing the puppy lol (puppies for goodness sake) I felt so proud feeding treats to strangers dogs and petting them ect. It is really really helping me. I have walked Cash several times now alone and we have stopped to visit other dogs and I am starting to get over my fear. Our late golden Rocky I NEVER walked him alone never! I did decide before Cash came to to us that if I was going to be a dog mom again I needed to try and get over this fear it is not fair Cash.

My friends parents had many dogs they had 3 boxers and many weener dogs. All of them were good dogs. Bo the one that attaked me had bitten the mail man and a cousin before he had attacked me. I don't think they did any thing different as far as training him then they did the other animals. He just had something about him that they couldn't fix. They did have to put him down after he attacked me. Had they not my dad would have gone over there and done it himself. It was sad for everyone. The liability is just to big in my opinion to keep dogs that bite. I am sorry your friend has to go through this. They must feel just horrible about what happened.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

DianaM said:


> Their trainer was closed during the holidays so she gets to finally discuss what happened today. Putting the dog to sleep is the vet's recommendation but they are going to see what the trainer thinks first. I have no idea what exactly happened when he attacked grandpa but I know they had at least 6 guests and two other dogs (german shepherd and husky) over as well. He could have gotten stressed out from everything going on and just snapped.


That sounds like and AWFUL lot of stress for a dog who might not have the temperament or the ability to cope with it.
Maybe their trainer will have some other suggestions for them.
Again, my thoughts are with them, whatever they decide to do.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Pointgold said:


> As difficult as it is to imagine, not every dog is "salvageable" even with the most intense training. This has obviously been an ongoing issue. And I'm sorry, but a dog that does that kind of damage would not remain in my household. Nor would I pass it off on anyone else.
> I'm more concerned about what the grandfather is going through! How is the poor man? And how bad was the person hurt a few weeks ago?


As much as I love dogs and feel that something like this could have been avoided... I do agree with this.

I do not think a dog like that could be trusted in that family and a dog that has already attacked somebody is not going to find another home. It is best for the dog to be put to sleep. 

If the family contacts a trainer, then they have to commit to training. And also they have to keep in mind that they own a dog who already snapped and can't be trusted off leash outside or even in the home when there is company over. 

I do not know a lot about aussies, other than the ones I've seen at class have always been very soft and sensitive dogs. I can't imagine any of them snapping or attacking somebody (chewing on legs?!), but then all of them have been owned by experienced training/owners.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I'll agree that Aussies can be "sensitive", but frankly, I've rarely, if ever that I can remember, met a truly "soft" one. They are hard working herding dogs. I've shown several, and have found many to be sharp.
And while I am a huge believer in training, and attempting to find the root cause and modify the behavior, if possible, I also am not real tolerant of making excuses for a dangerous dog. Living with a dog like the one in question will be as stressful, if not more so, for the owners as for the dog. Living with a potential "time bomb" is not fun. And with liability concerns, given the severe nature of his bites, they could find themselve uninsureable.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Having been attacked by a dog I know how fearful and painful it can be and I wasn't chewed through to the bone!!!

Do these people have children? I would be so afraid if I was them. This dog has something very wrong and most times this kind of behavior cannot be trained out of them. I am sad for them and their dog but I would never own a dog I could not trust not to bite me or my family.
It also sounds strange that this dog was allowed to be loose in a house full of people and other dogs! when this has happened before!


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## DianaM (Feb 18, 2010)

Hearing everyone's take on this is helping me realize that it might be the right thing to do. Especially considering they are trying to start a family. I wouldn't be able to trust him around a newborn. 

It might have been harder for me to comprehend because my in-laws have an aussie and he is just the most amazing dog ever. You only hear stories like this in the news about pit bulls or rotties.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I am very sorry that your friends are having to go through this. I do have to agree with the vet, though. 

I had a corgi/chow mix that I worked with for 10 years, initially she was standoffish with strangers and had a little dog aggression. The dog aggression grew out of control with her attacking my lab unprovoked a couple of times a month. Then she nipped the washer repairman. I had to make a very difficult decision, but she was a huge liability and was totally unpredictable. I couldn't risk her biting someone again or injuring someone else (she had already bitten my son when he was breaking up a fight) during a dog fight. She was never right mentally and I wish I had had the strength back when she was 2 years old to have made that decision, for our sake, for Jasmine's sake and for her sake. She wasn't a happy dog, plain and simple.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> Living with a dog like the one in question will be as stressful, if not more so, for the owners as for the dog. Living with a potential "time bomb" is not fun. And with liability coincerns, given the severe nature of his bites, they could find themselve uninsureable.


I can vouch for that. Alomar (one of our GSDs) was a 'time bomb.' He was the biggest baby in the world with "his" people, but he was downright vicious with strangers. We lived with it for nine years, until his ITP took him, and my god... the stress! We loved him more than anything and wouldn't have traded one day we had with him, but I can say one thing - we'd never do it again. It was just too much. We constantly had to be on-guard and knew that we could never slip up.
I wouldn't fault anyone for being unwilling or unable to live like that.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

DianaM said:


> Hearing everyone's take on this is helping me realize that it might be the right thing to do. Especially considering they are trying to start a family. I wouldn't be able to trust him around a newborn.


Oh boy, that would seal it for me. There is no way on earth I would have this dog in the house with a child.
He could get the best training in the world and you just never know when he might snap again. The potential is always going to be there.
It's a sad situation and I can't imagine how difficult it's going to be for them to make the decision, but sometimes there's no other choice.


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