# Choke chains



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

*Not* on a puppy. 

I would not put any choke chains or prongs or any corrective collar on a dog until they are closer to a year old and more likely to know what you want when you give a very slight correction. Choke chains should preferably hang loose around the neck unless you are giving a correction.

Other thing is even after a dog is old enough to wear one - I would not put a choke chain or any other training collar on a dog for just walks around the block. Training collars should be strictly for training sessions (5-15 minute sessions at home or at class). 

With a 13 week old - keep your hands soft and do lots of praise and play while walking. Walks at this time are supposed to be "adventure" time for them - especially as they may be in and out of a few "Fear stages".


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## Ripley16 (Jan 26, 2012)

I would avoid the choke chain in general if you can. I found that using a gentle leader was the best tool for teaching a puppy how to heel. Clicker training is also very useful. You are right though, patience is truly needed with little pups! They are quite the handful!


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## Wenderwoman (Jan 7, 2013)

It takes time. My girl has always been pretty good as long as no other dogs or people were around and then she would pull and lunge. There was also a time period where she would just lay down on walks. I would just figure out which direction she wanted to go and then once I got her moving, go back in the direction I wanted to go. If that failed, I would act excited and do a little jog and that would get her going.

I tried the choke collar and the halti. I used the choke collar for maybe a week and the halti for one day. Other people like the halti. I ended up using the harness and a clicker and treats and praise.

Fast forward a year and a half later, she is now okay with most people. Kids can be a trigger and dogs can be a trigger. But, inch by inch and step by step, she gets a little better each time. We're still working at it. She is perfect as long as there are no distractions. She will still lay down sometimes for a good sniff but she will get up in a few seconds.

You will figure it out as you go and find what works for you and your dog. It will take patience.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

13 weeks is very young for any corrective collar. Patience is needed for the puppy to mature. You are right, Bailey is a baby. She needs more time.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

I do not like choke chains as corrections are focused in one general area, where the voice box is, is where they pinch.....I much prefer prong collars as when you give a correction the pinch is applied equally around the neck. Of course proper training and technique must be used for both, or the dog will be injured. 

I hate all leader/harness type tools, as they quickly change the direction of the dogs head and neck for a correction, which can cause damage the neck and shoulder areas...and actually I find they do not always work....unlike the prong collar...


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## Rkaymay (May 12, 2014)

I used a prong collar on Z starting at around 13 weeks. It was fantastic. Walks were terrible for us - the whole time was spent with her jumping and nipping. I went home in tears. With the prong collar, it took two, maybe three tries of her pulling - I did no active correcting, simply let her do what she wanted and self-correct for that - before she began to realize that walking correctly was where the fun was.

She's a dream on a walk now. She knows when the prong collar goes on, it's work time. I recently took her back home to watch the parade, and used her prong collar to encourage better behavior. She did wonderful. There were kids screaming, horns honking, clowns riding by, etc. She barely blinked. She didn't even jump on little kids who came up to pet her (a big feat). I have no regrets about my use of a prong collar on her. A halter just didn't work for us and I have no experience with a halti, but I knew to use a prong collar, so I did.

You know your dog best. Some dogs are very soft and don't respond well to training collars. Others need something that's a bit firmer than a halter. Walks SHOULD be fun, but you also shouldn't be quitting in tears.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

It's so much fun to work cooperatively with the pup. Build a reward zone on the left at the seam of your jeans, and always reward there. Use a clicker and mark the position, or use the word "yes". Choose To Heel is a very fun game designed by Dawn Jecs, and it is here on the forum if you do a search. With choke chains and prong collars you can win the battle but lose the war in terms of stopping the pulling but hurting the overall relationship or the dog's enjoyment of learning. Kikopup has lots of good videos on youtube with easy leash walking tips, and Denise Fenzi has a useful technique called "pocket hand". It's worth doing some reading and research before deciding.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

Rkaymay said:


> I used a prong collar on Z starting at around 13 weeks. It was fantastic. Walks were terrible for us - the whole time was spent with her jumping and nipping. I went home in tears. With the prong collar, it took two, maybe three tries of her pulling - I did no active correcting, simply let her do what she wanted and self-correct for that - before she began to realize that walking correctly was where the fun was.
> 
> She's a dream on a walk now. She knows when the prong collar goes on, it's work time. I recently took her back home to watch the parade, and used her prong collar to encourage better behavior. She did wonderful. There were kids screaming, horns honking, clowns riding by, etc. She barely blinked. She didn't even jump on little kids who came up to pet her (a big feat). I have no regrets about my use of a prong collar on her. A halter just didn't work for us and I have no experience with a halti, but I knew to use a prong collar, so I did.
> 
> You know your dog best. Some dogs are very soft and don't respond well to training collars. Others need something that's a bit firmer than a halter. Walks SHOULD be fun, but you also shouldn't be quitting in tears.


Rkaymay...Good comments, my experiences with prong collars have been exactly as you state! I have a tip for you my trainer put me on to a lady in Chicago who makes a new style of prong collar. It is covered on the outside and has no buckle it just slips on and slips off, and will not come off accidently or get twisted, etc. They are wonderful....the website is www.lolalimited.net. She calls these collars the "Secret Powers" Collar....check them out!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

All due respect... when you consider what a 13 week old puppy's neck feels like (no muscle or fat protecting the bones, very little fur/ruff there, etc) - I really don't think you should be even thinking about putting a prong on that young a pup. 

And I'm saying that as somebody who uses prongs on her dogs at one point or other - definitely. I actually prefer choke chains for the sake that they can be worn in the ring and they hang loose on the dogs necks during training sessions. I train with a very positive type trainer (she's known to be very positive here in MI and has even been recommended by positive only people on this forum) and she has used choke chains (mostly martingales, but I've seen choke chains as well) on her dogs as well and uses the same kind of corrections on her dogs that I do (chain rattling). And she does not object to my using choke chains during our lessons. 

Anyway. It's not really a reason to bring up the prong no prong debates. Or halter vs collar vs whatever.

That young a pup - leash training on a plain old collar, soft hands, play, and patience is all you need. My experience has always been... they don't start pulling until they are 7+ months old and usually stops by the time they are 15-18 months old as the hormones start settling down. 

13 week old puppy - I can't imagine really pulling that bad to cause too much of a control problem. The "make like a tree" and mixing play and attention - works. Also walking at quieter times of the day when there aren't many people or dogs out. 

Big thing is don't get into pulling contests with your dogs and don't get upset with them with they clown around. 

I'm sure I'll get labeled as a know it all who doesn't understand for saying all that.... just that first year - it's a precious time. Enjoy every minute of it.

I had a young golden years ago who had both pano and elbow dysplasia that first year. And I still remember us deciding to blow off the instructions from the vet and take him for walks regularly every day, because he needed exercise and was a monster in the house and just walking down the street. 

My horse-background recognized somewhat what was going on in connection to what I've seen with horses. The ones who do not get out of their stalls often enough to blow off energy in the yard several times a day in addition to training sessions - they were the ones who would come out of the stalls and just run, run, and run. And basically we never got on these horses cold - out of the interest of protecting our necks.  

That young golden settled down a ton with more free exercise and regular exercise that he got every day. In his case (and I think as with all young puppies) - free exercise was absolutely more important than the actual walks around the block. 

The fact that he wanted and needed to walk - was always a blessing to us. Not just because we knew he was probably in pain a good portion of the time. We had a golden before him who refused to walk from age 3 onward. And showed very little interest in walking. It was only after we lost him that we connected the lack of interest and/or reluctance to exercise and run around with him being ill. 

So I guess getting through that - we always looked at a young dog pulling along and charging right out there on walks as a sign of health. A good thing. 

So keep at it - and liberally use your "pup in training" card when you encounter people.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

While I am not a fan of choke collars I do like pinch (prong) collars.

You have to adjust your training approach to the dog you have at the end of the leash. Personality, temperament, breeding and the abilities of the handler are all factors that come into play. 

I start my puppies on a pinch collar. It works very well and the youngsters learn very quickly. Teach good behaviors from the start. If you don't let them learn and establish unwanted behaviors from the start, you don't have to fix them later.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I have actually found that I like starting a pup young on a prong collar. I never "correct" them with it when they are young. I just let them feel for themselves that when there is tension on the leash, it's uncomfortable, so they immediately teach themselves to keep a loose leash. Then I can do a whole lot of rewarding for keeping a loose leash, and they never develop the habit of pulling in the first place. So much easier to prevent pulling from ever happening than un teaching it, and it's really easy on the pup. Now if I had a young puppy that would pull into a prong collar, I would have to re evaluate my approach. In that case I'd probably switch over to a leash looped around the waist and hold off on the prong.

I'm not really a fan of choke collars, about the only time I use one is at a crowded show site - then I put it up right behind the ears so I can have more control over the head while maneuvering around the site

I don't recommend teaching a puppy anything by popping the leash with either collar.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

goldlover68 said:


> I hate all leader/harness type tools, as they quickly change the direction of the dogs head and neck for a correction, which can cause damage the neck and shoulder areas...and actually I find they do not always work....unlike the prong collar...


I absolutely agree with you in the sense that you should never correct—in the sense of a pop or jerk—with a halter or front harness. But I would say you shouldn't do it with the prong or a choke either, especially on a young puppy. There's no really safe way to jerk on a dog's head or neck, and the younger the pup, the more potential for bad fallout. Much easier, faster, and nicer to teach the pup what you _do_ want as opposed to what you _don't_ want.

I do recommend front harnesses sometimes for people who have larger dogs who are pulling them off their feet, just so they get some leverage in a way that's gentle on the dog. But even then, the whole point is to teach the dog to stick around so he's not running all-out to the end of the leash in the first place.

To the OP - that's probably going to be the hardest part for you making the 40-year jump in dog training. Things have come a long way, and it can be hard to get out of the mentality of "quit pulling or I'll make it unpleasant for you!" into the mentality of "walk in the zone near me and I'll make it fun for both of us!"


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