# Best dogs under 20 lbs...



## gooden86

Does anyone have any suggestion as to best breeds under 20 lbs? Both my wife and I love golden (especially our 13 yr old senior), but our building recently changes policy to only allow dogs 20 lbs and under. Our current dog was "grandfathered" in. But we're planning ahead to getting another dog...

For context, we live in the city, but have no problem getting in 3 long walks every day. We would also probably adopt another older dog, as they're nothing sadder than a good dog who needs a home.

Can anyone recommend a "golden-like" breed that is under 20 lbs?


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## hotel4dogs

Overall, I like the shih-tzus if they're raised right. I board a couple here at the pet hotel that think they're small goldens. One of the best "ball players" I've ever had here is a shih-tzu. 
If it doesn't have to be strictly under 20 pounds, the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel is a really nice dog, too, although be careful where you get them, they are insanely prone to health problems. They vary from just under to just over 20 pounds. Nice temperaments.


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## Rainheart

One small dog I have met that I did like is a border terrier. I only ever met one, so I cannot speak for the whole breed, but she was a sweetheart! She is to be a show dog. 

I agree with the caution of the cavaliers... just way too many health issues for me every to consider it.


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## Mosby's Mom

I've recently had the pleasure of meeting several whippets, and I thought they were just the most awesome dog. I'm not sure what their standard weight is, though, but perhaps a female would/could be 20lbs.

I also know a few people with Havanese dogs, and they are just adorable and friendly.


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## sharlin

Italian Greyhouds - and I believe there is a large Italian Greyhound rescue group in NY (I know - not a real subtle hint)


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## Ljilly28

A well bred papillon is a dog I love. I also have a soft spot for the Bichon Frise, and hope to have a wonderful cheerful one someday.


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## sarahdove

I am partial to Boston Terriers. They love to cuddle under the covers.


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## Megora

Get a cocker spaniel.  

Before we got into goldens, my sibs and I helped our neighbor out with her buff cocker. We absolutely loved Rusty. His attitude was very much like goldens. Very loving. Very bondy with his people. Loving and friendly with other people. Easy to train. Just a terribly awesome little dog. 

I think I was 5 or 6 around that time and spent many afternoons playing with my dolls at the fence. And he would sit there on the other side of the link fence just being with me. 

I think they can be 20-30 lbs, but I'd check with your landlord. 

If you have to go smaller than cockers... I totally second Shihtzus. I also love the Havanese and Lhasas.  

I think the only bad thing about all of these dogs is you need to either pay for a groomer or learn to groom the dogs yourself. 

I guess the other thing is with the Shih Tzus - they have a lot of eye problems. I don't know if it is a breeding thing, but a lot of them seem to have major eye problems as they get up in age and need to have the eyes removed.


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## Sweet Girl

How big do Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retrievers get? Darn. Just checked - too big. 

I love the look of French Bulldogs, but know nothing about the personality. There are a few at my park and they LOVE to play ball.


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## Kmullen

Papillion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I ever own a small dog, I would get a papillion. I also love the PBG (Petit Basset Griffon) though bigger tha 40 lbs! So cute.


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## Kmullen

Or the havanese! Those are my top 3 picks


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## Ljilly28

kfayard said:


> Papillion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I ever own a small dog, I would get a papillion. I also love the PBG (Petit Basset Griffon) though bigger tha 40 lbs! So cute.


I've done board and train with 3 sillysweet PBGVs for a breeder-love them. Very independent thinkers


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## MarieP

I agree about the shih tzu. Very cool little dogs. 

I think the Border Terrier would be the number one small dog on my list, but I won't really call them "golden-like." 

Cockers are nice, and you could look into the English Cocker which is less popular (and therefore generally has less temperament/health issues). 

Also, a Pug or a French Bulldog could fit the bill. 

Good luck!!!


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## spruce

20#s!! think he'll know if they get to 30#? I was thinking Corgie...well loved by many. Cavalier would be my lst pick, but the med issues are scarey. I met several great small poodles that were real dogs at heart


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## Meggie'sMom

How about a one of a kind shelter dog? The ultimate in designer breed.


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## Aislinn

Papillons!! Especially if you are used to an intelligent dog who is eager to please and easy to train.


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## kwhit

I _love_ Pugs and French Bulldogs. Both breeds are total clowns and will keep you laughing. If you decide on a Terrier, (any), be prepared 'cause they could try the patience of a saint. :doh: My little Terrier mix is the most tenacious dog I have ever met. I love her with all my heart, but never again.

Shih Tzus are really good dogs, but a ton of grooming. Papillons are nice, too. I really like Mini Poodles, but again, a lot of grooming.

Here's a guide to small breeds:

Small Dog Breeds A to Z (Complete list)


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## OutWest

I am terribly impartial--I adore Cavalier King Charles Spaniels. They were bred to be a companion dog. They are sweet, friendly, always wagging, smart, and really beautiful. Largest standard size is 18 pounds (although I see many that are porky and over that!). They are great with kids, adults, elderly, other dogs, don't know about cats yet but I'm betting they are good with them too. Their temperament is very like a GR--just in a small happy package. They love to run, do agility, are excellent therapy animals. I think they are just about the perfect smaller dog. 

If you want to consider a CKCS, please do go to a really good breeder. Just as with GRs, Cavvies have health issues and there are many BYBs out there selling unhealthy puppies. 

If you want to go the rescue route, you might want to look at a Chihuahua. I never thought I'd say that. But I volunteer at our local SPCA and there are many there. And some of them I have wanted to take home. They are spunky, and terrier-like, but can be very loving, sweet and loyal. There are also rescue CKCSs, but fewer of them. 

Good luck in your choosing. It's fun to look for a new dog!

Came back to add a couple sources of information. Here is my favorite cavalier site: http://www.cavaliers.co.uk/ It has a great deal of information about how to choose a puppy and a breeder, what to look for. It's UK based but there is good information there. Another source: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Club: http://www.ckcsc.org/ This is the original breed club in the US. There were some politics a while back with the AKC, and they did not want to become the official AKC breed club because they disagreed with the the breed becoming recognized by AKC. Don't ask; it's a long story. AKC also has good info, as does the AKC CKCS club. I also wanted to add that I heavily researched toy breeds many years ago because I needed one that would be good for my elderly mother and for my young daughter. So many toy breeds are not good with little kids. Our Tess has been wonderful. My DD used dress her up all the time, and she has never nipped or complained. I adore our GR, Tucker, but getting a big dog was my DD's idea. I would have gotten another CKCS in a minute.


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## Megora

@Cavaliers KC's - we always wanted one until we approached a breeder/handler at a show. She immediately brought up the heart issue and emphasized that it's something that they are trying to "fix" in the breed, but they still have so many heart problems. 

One thing to remember as far as some of these little dogs - especially the bichons and papillions. They are mostly coat. Sometimes they trick us into thinking they are sturdier and bigger than they really are. Bichons especially.


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## Tahnee GR

I like Chinese Crested, Havanese and LOVE Tibetan Spaniels. The one I know is cute, cute, cute and scary smart!


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## ebenjamin85

I second the cocker spaniel recommendation. Very smart. If I were ever to get a small dog I think that would be it!


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## Deber

What about a Biewer Yorkshire Terrier? They are between 4-7 lbs for show but many are 8 - 12 lbs. They are from Germany, not yappy like our Am. yorkies, come in beautiful colors and very different in temperment than the yorkies here. Love mine! Yes they must be groomed, but a few minutes a day or cut in puppy cut. Mine like hiking, make great campers, some love to swim. Really beautiful and small dogs. They are doing wonderful with the goldens too and play so hard with them. They make wonderful therapy dogs and the breed is starting agility in some places. Totally a companion breed, but one that goes where you go and very golden like in their loving personalities.


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## rob1

I really like the spaniels myself, pretty much all of them. I had an English Cocker growing up (he was 30-35 pounds, but that is unusual). That dog loved the water, even more than my golden. And I met a Sussex Spaniel at the dog park that was just lovely. It's on my list of dogs to consider if I get too old to handle 80 pounds of GR. That said- it looks like a Sussex would likely weigh too much.

My brother did consider an Italian Greyhound- which I've read are great dogs. I myself tend to prefer a bit more meat and fur on my pups- but I do think the Greyhounds are really nice dogs.


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## Megora

> he was 30-35 pounds, but that is unusual


I think the ECS are a little bigger than the Americans, so this wouldn't be unusual.


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## Suni52

Shih-tzu, Havanese, and Cavalier King Charles are my top 3 picks.


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## Jige

I am not too much for little dogs but my friends has Tibetan Spaniels. I love these little dogs. They are so sweet very smart and sturdy.


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## sterregold

I like English Cocker Spaniels--far fewer issues with teeth and temperaments than their American counterparts, and the coat is easier to care for as well. They will be in your size range. A 30lber would be huge!

That said, my own choice is a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. For a toy breed they are actually quite sturdy, and game to go for walks. Mine will swim with the Golden pack. The feathering on the ears and tail needs to be brushed regularly to prevent matting, but otherwise the grooming is not onerous, and their teeth have to be well cared for, as is true with most Toys. Their temperaments really are a very good match to that of the Golden. You do need to be very careful about who you get them from. The good preeders are using MRI to screen for SM, and hearts are checked ANNUALLY. The friend I got mine from tends to breed his dogs later as he is specifically selecting for heart health--so he likes to see an older dog who is still naturally healthy. There are medications that can be given to treat the heart disease and forestall its onset--problem is that if breeders are using them prophylactically they really have no idea about the heart health of their breeding stock, so I would steer clear of anyone doing this!!


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## Casey and Samson's Mom

I like both English and American cockers, except for the grooming part! Love the personalities, though. Boston terriers are also great dogs, and require very little grooming.


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## Amberbark

Ljilly28 said:


> A well bred papillon is a dog I love. I also have a soft spot for the Bichon Frise, and hope to have a wonderful cheerful one someday.


 I would recommend a Papillon. We have an almost 3 yr. old female, Piper. She is lively, friendly, loyal, playful, smart, trainable, low maintenance and just a joy. I would love to have 3 more. I think with you having a older GR, that is best. Photo of Piper attached. :wavey:


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## Glassbuttercup

I vote for the Shih-tzu!!! They are sooo loving and outgoing...I agree that they are like a mini Golden in personality!!


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## MikaTallulah

I vote Bichon. I love my Yorkies but they don't have golden like personalities. Cockers are great too.


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## Hali's Mom

I have to add this, I work with a girl that has 2 shih tzu and my brother had 2 bichon. None of these dogs like/liked children, especially small children. My co worker's dog actually bit her niece on the face when she got "in" the dog's face more than the dog cared. She now has the "one more bite" warning.
Just something to keep in mind. 
Also, if you are not familiar with small breed dogs, alot of them are yappy and that definitely is not a golden like trait.
Wish you the best in your search. I think possibly your best bet would be to contact a rescue and tell them what you desire in a dog personality, grooming etc. They will steer you in the best possible direction thanks to their foster homes being familiar with their charges.


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## OutWest

Megora said:


> @Cavaliers KC's - we always wanted one until we approached a breeder/handler at a show. She immediately brought up the heart issue and emphasized that it's something that they are trying to "fix" in the breed, but they still have so many heart problems.
> 
> One thing to remember as far as some of these little dogs - especially the bichons and papillions. They are mostly coat. Sometimes they trick us into thinking they are sturdier and bigger than they really are. Bichons especially.


That picture is hysterical! Reminds me of what my Persian cat looked like dry and wet. 

Re: the heart issues, true but many/most are living long lives. Why a good breeder is so important.


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## Megora

Hali's Mom said:


> I have to add this, I work with a girl that has 2 shih tzu and my brother had 2 bichon. None of these dogs like/liked children, especially small children. My co worker's dog actually bit her niece on the face when she got "in" the dog's face more than the dog cared. She now has the "one more bite" warning.


Wow... I've never seen those traits with the shih tzus and bichons that I've met. Please keep in mind that these dogs were all from good breeders and handled by people who do nothing else but handle and train their dogs. Bichons especially. 

It is however pretty common of papillions, chihuahuas, and pomeranians that I've seen though - even when they come from good breeders. 



OutWest said:


> That picture is hysterical! Reminds me of what my Persian cat looked like dry and wet.
> 
> Re: the heart issues, true but many/most are living long lives. Why a good breeder is so important.


@picture - I cracked up because I immediately thought of a bichon who goes to comp obedience classes the same place I do. This is a show dog, so he has the big puffy coat. But when I go in to do an exam on him, it's like there this teeny little bony dog under all that fur. 

Maybe it's changed in the past few years... we just got scared off because the breeder we spoke with was a VERY good breeder. Very tops in our area. Very reputable. Definitely somebody I would go with. And she immediately told us that there is no way to completely avoid the heart problems.


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## MikaTallulah

Hali's Mom said:


> I have to add this, I work with a girl that has 2 shih tzu and my brother had 2 bichon. None of these dogs like/liked children, especially small children. My co worker's dog actually bit her niece on the face when she got "in" the dog's face more than the dog cared. She now has the "one more bite" warning.
> Just something to keep in mind.
> Also, if you are not familiar with small breed dogs, alot of them are yappy and that definitely is not a golden like trait.
> Wish you the best in your search. I think possibly your best bet would be to contact a rescue and tell them what you desire in a dog personality, grooming etc. They will steer you in the best possible direction thanks to their foster homes being familiar with their charges.


There are many factors that contribute to if a dog is good with kids or not. I have yet to met a Bichon or Shih Tzu that was raised properly and from good breeders that had problems with kids. We had a Bichon when I was growing up. My brother was 2 when we got him. Bijiu never showed any problems with kids. 

Kids need to be taught to not get into dogs' faces.

My yorkies are great with kids but I still monitor all interactions between them and kids.


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## OutWest

Megora said:


> Wow... I've never seen those traits with the shih tzus and bichons that I've met. Please keep in mind that these dogs were all from good breeders and handled by people who do nothing else but handle and train their dogs. Bichons especially.
> 
> It is however pretty common of papillions, chihuahuas, and pomeranians that I've seen though - even when they come from good breeders.
> 
> 
> 
> @picture - I cracked up because I immediately thought of a bichon who goes to comp obedience classes the same place I do. This is a show dog, so he has the big puffy coat. But when I go in to do an exam on him, it's like there this teeny little bony dog under all that fur.
> 
> Maybe it's changed in the past few years... we just got scared off because the breeder we spoke with was a VERY good breeder. Very tops in our area. Very reputable. Definitely somebody I would go with. And she immediately told us that there is no way to completely avoid the heart problems.


Shes probably right in general. My Tess has a murmur but is going strong with no meds. I hang out on a CKCS forum and was reassured that many live quite long lives with no problem and many today don't get it at all. I think it's a bit of a toss up since all pure bred dogs seem to have some sort of Health issue.


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## Zombo

Golden puppies start out under twenty pounds! Just sayin'!


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## Sterling Archer

If I were going to get a dog under 20lbs...it would be a toy Poodle. Yeah...lol. My brother's wife got one as a puppy. He's a GREAT little dog...and I don't tend to like little dogs. Lots of personality.

Just wanted to get in a "NO" vote for Miniature Pinschers...too. I want to punt my wife's min pin on a daily basis. ******* dog pisses on the carpet on a daily basis (at least once), regardless of how often you let her out. I like that she cuddled under the sheets (a good leg warmer), but she's lost that privilege.


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## mylissyk

This has some good description of the personality of a lot of small breeds.

Small Dogs Weighing Under 20 pounds


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## kwhit

Megora said:


> Wow... I've never seen those traits with the shih tzus and bichons that I've met.


Me, too. _All_ the Shih Tzus I've met, (and I've met tons from having grooming in my shops), have been little angels. Most of the Bichons were really sweet, too. Now Lhasas, they can be very temperamental.


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## Megora

> Just wanted to get in a "NO" vote for Miniature Pinschers...too. I want to punt my wife's min pin on a daily basis. ******* dog pisses on the carpet on a daily basis (at least once), regardless of how often you let her out. I like that she cuddled under the sheets (a good leg warmer), but she's lost that privilege.


That's a common issue with a lot of small dogs, you realize. I think the Havanese that a friend owned took a LONG time to thoroughly housetrain. Plus there might be other health issues causing the incontinence with some of these dogs. Mostly though, I think a lot of them just piddle a little when over excited or worked up or scared.

I love min pins. They are not at all like goldens, which is why I did not mention them. But my neighbor has/had one who is absolutely awesome. She was my Jacks' playmate - and keep in mind she was a very old dog. Years before she was my Danny's playmate as well when he was younger. I think she recently passed away, and she was 18.  I've been meaning to ask my neighbor, but I've noticed her dog is not on guard duty anymore. I knew she was 18, so unfortunately that's my first guess.


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## Sterling Archer

Megora said:


> That's a common issue with a lot of small dogs, you realize. I think the Havanese that a friend owned took a LONG time to thoroughly housetrain. Plus there might be other health issues causing the incontinence with some of these dogs. Mostly though, I think a lot of them just piddle a little when over excited or worked up or scared.
> 
> I love min pins. They are not at all like goldens, which is why I did not mention them. But my neighbor has one who is absolutely awesome. She was my Jacks' playmate - and keep in mind she was a very old dog. Years before she was my Danny's playmate as well when he was younger. I think she recently passed away, and she was 18.


Oh...she's housebroken. When we're awake...or if we're within sight of the door...she'll let us know that she has to go out. If we're asleep or if it's more convenient for her to piss on the carpet...she'll take that option. She's about seven years old. She's smart and knows better.


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## goldensrbest

i am sorry you can't have another golden.


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## wmag

My mom has a shih tzu and she is wonderful with kids. I have a 3yr old nephew, a 4yr old niece, and a 3yr old daughter and she is great with all of them. I don't think she puts up with as much as my golden but she just walks away when she has enough. She really isn't much of a barker unless the other 2 dogs my mom has get her going. One of the other small dogs my mom has is a pug and she is even better with the kids! She likes to bark when we come into the house but over all she isn't much of a barker either. The shih tzu took a long time to house train though. Even at 3 she sometimes has accidents!


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## MikaTallulah

Little dog =Little bladder. Mine go out about every 2-3 hrs during the day.


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## Amberbark

Sterling Archer said:


> If I were going to get a dog under 20lbs...it would be a toy Poodle. Yeah...lol. My brother's wife got one as a puppy. He's a GREAT little dog...and I don't tend to like little dogs. Lots of personality.
> 
> Just wanted to get in a "NO" vote for Miniature Pinschers...too. I want to punt my wife's min pin on a daily basis. ******* dog pisses on the carpet on a daily basis (at least once), regardless of how often you let her out. I like that she cuddled under the sheets (a good leg warmer), but she's lost that privilege.


My co-worker has a min pin and he is getting progressively worse with "small dog syndrome." He used to bite at them (adult man and wife) when they tried to get in the bed or they tried to put him outside. Now they have a two year old baby girl and Tyson is biting her. Can you say bye bye? :no::doh:


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## vcm5

A friend of mine has a min pin who is absolutely the sweetest dog, I was thinking of even recommending that to another friend who is looking for a small dog as well. Obviously personalities vary greatly within a breed but does anyone know more about the general reputation of the temperament of this breed?


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## Debles

I am not a small dog person. My friend has a brussels griffon who is adorable I have to say. and another friend has a sheltie who is a sweetie. But they may weigh more than 20 pounds.


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## Muddypaws

Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. Kirby has class with a few of them and they are all sweet, smart and adorable. Temperament is very close to a Golden. I am looking for one for my MIL. But I have been warned, they have more health issues then Goldens ( hard to believe). So passing along them information - either find a "good" breeder or if you rescue "Know" what your getting. Make sure you have the dog check by your vet and make sure you can afford medical needs. 

I already told DH that when we are to old and decrepit for a Golden, Cavaliers will be our dog.


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## bioteach

I truly hope to always have a big, sloppy Golden; but if for some reason I was restricted to a weight limit I'd go with a poodle.


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## Aislinn

Small dogs take longer to housebreak and will sometimes have accidents still. Using bitches britches or a doggy diaper is much easier though with them than it is with the larger dogs. Small dogs can also be litter box trained.

All dogs can be possible biters of small children. The important thing is to make sure they have good experiences with well behaved children as puppies and young dogs. Small dogs can easily be hurt by a child, and they will protect themselves if they think they are about to be hurt. If you think about the size of a child's head and body and that of a toy dog, imagine yourself the dog and that child's face coming at your face quickly. Children move fast, adults don't. All dogs should be allowed to experience the quick movements of children, otherwise it can be alarming to them.


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## Megora

vcm5 said:


> A friend of mine has a min pin who is absolutely the sweetest dog, I was thinking of even recommending that to another friend who is looking for a small dog as well. Obviously personalities vary greatly within a breed but does anyone know more about the general reputation of the temperament of this breed?


Based on Shadow next door and other min pins I've met.... they think they are big dogs. They can be very bossy. And they can be very turfy. Shadow considered it her job to keep an eye on her property. If you stepped on the property she came running to try herding you off. Or she was inside barking. Very high energy and they get a lot of bad habits if not trained and exercised. 

Shadow grew up with friendly goldens next door : so she was very well socialized with other dogs, but others that I've met can have issues with other dogs if not socialized enough early on.

They are obedience dynamos, btw. If you can get them to take the dumbbells, they do everything.


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## Amberbark

Amberbark said:


> My co-worker has a min pin and he is getting progressively worse with "small dog syndrome." He used to bite at them (adult man and wife) when they tried to get in the bed or they tried to put him outside. Now they have a two year old baby girl and Tyson is biting her. Can you say bye bye? :no::doh:


Having said this, I realize that his dangerous behavior is the fault of the owners, not the dog.


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## Aislinn

A lot of toy breeds have 'large dog syndrome'. (They think they are large.) I warn my Papillon buyers that Papillons think they are Dobermans. If a large stray dog comes on their property, their Papillon is not going to bark at it and stay at their feet while barking. A Papillon is going to charge and attack the intruder and they will watch their dog die. Unlike some big dogs, toy dogs don't tend to be laid back about strangers or strange dogs. I call it the Napolianic Complex.


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## nolefan

Off of the top of my head, I can count 6 Cavaliers within a 1/2 mile radius in my neighborhood and every single one of those little dogs is delightful. If I ever have to have a small dog, I will risk the potential heartbreak to have one of them. They are just so darn sweet and my idea of a furry, huggable dog without so much grooming. And they don't yap too much 

I also know a couple Havanese pretty well and they are darling and personality plus as well. I don't like the grooming requirements though.


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## Loisiana

I've never understood weight restrictions. Honestly, which dog is more likely to pee on the carpet all the time or yap at all hours? What benefit is gained by only allowing small dog's?

Count me in under Cavalier fans.


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## Aislinn

I have a friend in MI who rents apartments. They don't allow over twenty pounds after several large dogs did major damage with chewing walls, baseboards and corners.


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## sterregold

Here is my Cavalier, a Ruby, with my boy Goldens. She has them completely under her paw. She is around 11 pounds. The heart issues are endemic in the breed--but what the good breeders are doing in selecting for better heart health is forestalling the age of onset. Heart issues are something you are going to have to be aware of in any toy breed--it just comes with miniaturatizing canids. Mine was 5 in the fall and is healthy as a horse still.


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## gooden86

*Thanks for all the input...*

Just to be clear- we would definitely adopt from a shelter or rescue, and will adopt an older dog.


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## cubbysan

Loisiana said:


> I've never understood weight restrictions. Honestly, which dog is more likely to pee on the carpet all the time or yap at all hours? What benefit is gained by only allowing small dog's?
> 
> Count me in under Cavalier fans.


 
I agree - my 10 lb shih tzu growing up had done more damage to the floors and carpets of our house, than my two goldens ever will. 

If I got a small dog again, it would be a papillion or corgi.


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## Lisa_and_Willow.

If I had to have a small dog again my number one would be a Parson jack russell followed by a Papillion.

If looking at rescue dogs then I would happily adopt a scruffy terrier mix!


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## Amberbark

Aislinn said:


> A lot of toy breeds have 'large dog syndrome'. (They think they are large.) I warn my Papillon buyers that Papillons think they are Dobermans. If a large stray dog comes on their property, their Papillon is not going to bark at it and stay at their feet while barking. A Papillon is going to charge and attack the intruder and they will watch their dog die. Unlike some big dogs, toy dogs don't tend to be laid back about strangers or strange dogs. I call it the Napolianic Complex.


@Aislinn, do you breed Papillons and where are you located? I have a 3 year old hound-tri Papillon named Piper (Country Oaks Pied Piper). Photo posted in previous post. I LOVE HER! :wavey:


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## cubbysan

What about a shetland sheepdog? They are 20 lbs. Very smart. My brother has a 2 year old, and he has been a very good dog, very family oriented.

Edit: Sorry they are 20 inches, not 20 lbs. I was just doing more reading on them.


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## Vanfull

We always had shelties and collies in the past. Our sheltie was under 30 pounds but I know others I have met have been around 20. probably depends on parents and making sure you keep them active. Our last sheltie was perfect and so loving. I have always found them to be very smart and easy to train too. The only downside is they can be barkers if you dont work with them on it.


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## Eleanor's Mom

I have fallen in love with the Lowchen and if I ever get a smaller dog this would be it. There is a family in our neighborhood and they are delightful little dogs. Not a very common breed and they do need to have regular grooming but nice dogs.


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## kwhit

Lisa_and_Willow. said:


> If looking at rescue dogs then I would happily adopt a scruffy terrier mix!


Lucy's ready to go! :wave: 

Just name the date and time... (She'll be coming without the bow, though. She chewed it up. :doh


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## OutWest

gooden86 said:


> Just to be clear- we would definitely adopt from a shelter or rescue, and will adopt an older dog.


This thread has been a lot of fun. It's interesting to see what small dogs all the GR folks like. Ever since Tucker arrived I've been fascinated by how much his temperament is like our Cav's. At least it seems so to me!


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## MarieP

Lisa_and_Willow. said:


> If looking at rescue dogs then I would happily adopt a scruffy terrier mix!


I love the scruffy mixes, but the OP is looking for something "golden-like." I don't think I have ever met a terrier or terrier mix who was close to having the personality of a golden. 

I would think that there are a ton of cocker spaniel and sheltie rescues that may have what you are looking for, especially since they are more popular (meaning, sadly, that there will be many more abandoned ones around).


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## Hali's Mom

Aislinn said:


> A lot of toy breeds have 'large dog syndrome'. (They think they are large.) I warn my Papillon buyers that Papillons think they are Dobermans. If a large stray dog comes on their property, their Papillon is not going to bark at it and stay at their feet while barking. A Papillon is going to charge and attack the intruder and they will watch their dog die. Unlike some big dogs, toy dogs don't tend to be laid back about strangers or strange dogs. I call it the Napolianic Complex.


I can second this: Same co worker as I mentioned brings her shih tzu to work everyday and another co worker has a chi-weenie (chi-doxie mix) that she adopted from rescue. Both these dogs have napolian complexes and have been known to bite at Mollie if she intrudes too far into "their" space. Fortunately Mollie does not react other than to lick where she lost a "mouthful" of fur to the little monster. Mollie could do some serious damage as she is about 65# to their 13-20.


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## Hali's Mom

Glad to hear you are considering a shelter dog. The shelters in NYC are always overflowing and not alot of the dogs ever get out. I do alot of networking for dogs needing rescue or adoption and I am forever seeing the NYC shelter dogs on Facebook. They could sure use some help. Manhattan and Brooklyn especially.
:no:


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