# which one is better?



## acquila (Dec 24, 2008)

the gentle leader or a choke chain?

I'm having trouble with promise paying attention to me when were are training, and Ive heard these will help, I have both, so which one, and how can I use that one in training, and what can i trian her to do with it?
thanks!


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## SoGolden (Jul 17, 2008)

*Neither*



acquila said:


> the gentle leader or a choke chain?
> 
> I'm having trouble with promise paying attention to me when were are training, and Ive heard these will help, I have both, so which one, and how can I use that one in training, and what can i trian her to do with it?
> thanks!


Neither is better. The gentle leader is for walking without pulling. The choke chain is for, well, choking.:no: Please get with a professional trainer to begin positive reinforcement (training).


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

For walking I like the the Gentle Leader. For training session though rather than a choke chain I would recommend a pinch collar. But, be sure to have a trainer who knows how to use the pinch collar show you how to fit it and use it. If you do use the choke for training sessions, also have an experienced trainer show you how to use it.


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## Heidi36oh (Feb 27, 2007)

I use the gentle leader for walks, never used a choker on any of mine.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

I'd never use a choke chain. If you want to use a collar as a training aid, have a trainer show you how to fit and use a prong (pinch) collar. It can be used for walking and training.


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## LOVEisGOLDEN (Jan 4, 2008)

depends...are you planning to show the dog? do you have proper training/experience with either pieces of equipment? 

if you plan to show, it is best to start a young dog on a pinch (prong collar) and move up to the slip chain. they are more gentle, the pup will learn faster, & there is a much less chance of tracheal damage with a properly fitted pinch.

if it is a pet, a gentle leader is a lovely tool. it guides the head & demands attention. the key is to release all tension the moment the correct behavior is offered (i.e. not pulling)

if you are simply having focus issues during training, a flat buckle collar is suitable. move to a low (or even better, no) distraction area, work when she is hungry, and provide treats worthy of the behaviors. (Cheerios are fine for sit & learned behaviors, but cheese/meat is better for new or more advanced cues)


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I know I'm in the minority, but is a prong collar really necessary? I understand that some dogs are more headstrong than others, but in so many training situations, going head to head with the dog isn't as productive as redirecting and shaping behavior. I've always taught leash skills that way, and it's worked well for me...I'm curious as to how a prong collar is used gently and effectively. (not a rhetorical question...genuine curiosity)


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

It depends on the situation. I personally would never use a GL, I find them annoying, but many people swear by them. I use a prong on a dog that is really bad, and I work hard to not need ANY tool as soon as possible.


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## K9 Passion (Jan 2, 2009)

I recently purchased a harness called a *Tug N' Hug* body harness. It is very unique from other harness & I am very pleased with it. Even though my two aren't really pullers, it's nice to have a safe product in the event that they decide to pull. So far, I've just used it for Goldie, but I will get one for Aspen in the future. It also doubles as a great vehicle restraint. One of the most unique features is that it doesn't put any strain around the shoulders.

IN MY OPINION, 'choke' collars are only appropriate in the show ring. They're designed to sit just under the top of the throat, with the back part almost right below the backside of the ears as the handler pulls upward (show people could describe this better). If not used in this fashion, the collar slides down to the neckline, which isn't the intended way to use this type of collar. PLus 'choke' collars actually *choke* them, by restricting their airways & could damage their laryx. If I absolutely had to choose between a choke & a prong, I would definitely choose a prong because that one at least distributes even pressure around the whole neck, instead of gagging them right at the throat..

Check it out:

http://www.tugnhug.com/


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I would rather use a prong than a choker to correct a truly terrible puller who can't even walk down the street as it's often self correcting- you don't have to work as hard as you do with a choker. But, I'll give a sharp correction with a prong to train a dog not to chase cats or to correct a really awful, terrible puller (such as an adult dog who was NEVER taught to walk nicely, and is absolutely out of control). It's favorable to not walking the dog because he's unmanageable, and it's favorable to having a crutch for life like a GL, IMO. Usually one or two sessions with the prong is all I need to fix even the most god awful, obnoxious puller or cat chaser. That said, I only go to that resort on the most extreme cases (using the prong to actually give corrections). It's give and take- when the good of having a quickly reliable dog outweighs the bad of giving a few corrections, I will give them. I disagree with correcting to teach commands like sit, down, and come. But, I will use them to remove behavior that makes a dog a danger or reduces the dog's quality of life. 

For walking a generally manageable dog who just needs the occasional reminder, I'll use a choker. I also use chokers sometimes even on a perfect dog purely because they're pretty much escape proof! They're the most reliable way to walk a spooky dog without worrying about slipping the collar or whatever. Plus, a prong CAN come undone, which can be terrifying if the dog in question would bolt. For the record, if the dog is so unstable that it would bolt if unleashed (fearful) I would never EVER use a prong on it. Such an animal needs rehabilitation with food rewards and gradual, slow introduction to the public- not corrections.


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## GoldenOwner12 (Jun 18, 2008)

I used the gentle leader on Shelley it worked with the pulling but she would not listen to commands, Take the fentle leader off and she would listen to my commands, So i used the gentle leader for a few months then started training her without it on. She hasn't got much focuss on me either all her focuss is on Einstein or runing into water. But if i put my foot down and raise my voice in a angry tone she listens. If she doesn't straight back on lead for 5 -10 minutes. My guys only get 3 warnings if they use those 3 warnings there punishment is back onlead for 5-10 minutes which annoys my guys cause they love there freedom.


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## Romeo1 (Apr 19, 2008)

Gentle leader, definitely. A choke chain seems too harsh for a Golden.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> I would rather use a prong than a choker to correct a truly terrible puller who can't even walk down the street as it's often self correcting- you don't have to work as hard as you do with a choker. But, I'll give a sharp correction with a prong to train a dog not to chase cats or to correct a really awful, terrible puller (such as an adult dog who was NEVER taught to walk nicely, and is absolutely out of control). It's favorable to not walking the dog because he's unmanageable, and it's favorable to having a crutch for life like a GL, IMO. Usually one or two sessions with the prong is all I need to fix even the most god awful, obnoxious puller or cat chaser. That said, I only go to that resort on the most extreme cases (using the prong to actually give corrections). It's give and take- when the good of having a quickly reliable dog outweighs the bad of giving a few corrections, I will give them. I disagree with correcting to teach commands like sit, down, and come. But, I will use them to remove behavior that makes a dog a danger or reduces the dog's quality of life.
> 
> For walking a generally manageable dog who just needs the occasional reminder, I'll use a choker. I also use chokers sometimes even on a perfect dog purely because they're pretty much escape proof! They're the most reliable way to walk a spooky dog without worrying about slipping the collar or whatever. Plus, a prong CAN come undone, which can be terrifying if the dog in question would bolt. For the record, if the dog is so unstable that it would bolt if unleashed (fearful) I would never EVER use a prong on it. Such an animal needs rehabilitation with food rewards and gradual, slow introduction to the public- not corrections.


Thanks for the explanation. So we're talking about dogs, maybe rescues, who've developed dangerous, confirmed leash habits? Maybe itt's not something you'd use on a young Golden who's just gotten strong enough to pull in an annoying way?

I've always trained with flat buckle collars, _far_ looser than most people would consider normal or safe. Comet's would definitely slip over his head if he pulled back and put his head down...but I only use the leash as a way of interrupting his attention and bringing it back to me so I can return him to my side, never as a way of physically restraining him by pitting his strength against mine. Seeing the small scrapes and scabs caused by a prong collar on a lab I know, I perhaps have a stronger sense of the damage they cause than is fair.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Yeah, I am talking a dog whose owner is practically in tears because the dog will just rip your arm out of the socket- a complete lunatic dog!

I will say I have NEVER seen a dog with any damage from a prong, but I'm sure it can happen. I'd have to wonder about the quality of the product if that occurred, though!

To me, a young dog that just pulls- shouldn't in the first place. By the time my puppies are old enough to even be large enough to pull enough to be any problem, they're fully leash trained.


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## Bailey & Bentley (Feb 25, 2007)

I never used either for training. I just found that having a high reward treat in hand, such as hotdogs, really helped with getting my boys to pay attention.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> I will say I have NEVER seen a dog with any damage from a prong, but I'm sure it can happen. I'd have to wonder about the quality of the product if that occurred, though!


Well, with this dog, it's entirely possible that the collar was cheap and maybe too sharp on the prongs. I also know this prong was used as a substitute for training the dog to behave on the leash, not as a training aid, so he was basically hauling on it every time he was walked.

Still, seeing that use and the damage it did, however minor, made me a little gun-shy about it.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Understandable! If the dog is one of the few (in my experience) who doesn't respect the prong and pulls into it, then it needs to be used actively the same as a choke, not allowin the dog to pull, ever. Train your puppies... prevent this! By seriously 10 or 12 weeks my dogs never pull anymore. I can walk them with my pinky finger.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Understandable! If the dog is one of the few (in my experience) who doesn't respect the prong and pulls into it, then it needs to be used actively the same as a choke, not allowin the dog to pull, ever. Train your puppies... prevent this! By seriously 10 or 12 weeks my dogs never pull anymore. I can walk them with my pinky finger.


That's what I'm saying! I feel like leash skills are essentially a training issue, not an equipment issue, and that most if not all dogs raised from puppies can be taught to behave in an appropriate way that's best for human and dog both.

For dogs who have already built up bad habits, maybe a prong is appropriate to help break those habits, but aren't you working towards the day when you can put the prong away and walk a true gentleman on a flat collar?


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Yes, or no leash at all. I deal a LOT with rescues, so the majority of dogs I am training are one or even ten years old and have had no training.


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## FishinBuddy (Nov 20, 2008)

Martingale (sp?) Its a combo of a chocker and flat....I only use it when we are in public or unsafe areas so there is little risk of the dog slipping the collar. I really never use collar corrections...


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