# alpha, or insecure?



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

IME, if you take the approach of "it's my food and I'll take it whenever I want" you'll only serve to confirm in his mind that yes, your presence near the food = a threat and that will likely make the behavior worse.

What have you done to try and work on it thus far? Does the same thing happen if he's eating outside of the crate? Does he ever guard the crate?

If you want professional help with Jake, I highly, highly, highly recommend Kathy Sdao. She's based in Tacoma and sees clients privately in Sumner and also in Seattle. She's a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist, is WONDERFUL and also a very engaging and motivating speaker. I catch her seminars everytime she's in town - usually once or twice a year and when I was recently in Washington, I sat in on a couple of her behavior consults. Her website is Bright Spot Dog Training & Kathy Sdao, Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist (associate), Tacoma, Washington. 

-Stephanie


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## Lisa (Sep 25, 2007)

Does he growl at you if you pet him or talk to him while giving him a biscuit with the other hand?


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## kardokardo (Sep 13, 2007)

Ajda is exactly like that, she 4 months now. We are trying I'm in control of the food approach, I didn't think it would make things worse though. You can touch Ajda's bowl also, but if you try to move your finger in the bowl she will growl...It's frustrating..


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## Lisa (Sep 25, 2007)

kardokardo said:


> Ajda is exactly like that, she 4 months now. We are trying I'm in control of the food approach, I didn't think it would make things worse though. You can touch Ajda's bowl also, but if you try to move your finger in the bowl she will growl...It's frustrating..


have you tried hand feeding?


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## Celeigh (Nov 29, 2007)

The first golden we had when I was a kid was like this. In the 11 years we had him, the only time he ever bit me (or anyone for that matter) was when I was talking to him while he was eating. I never went near him while he was eating again! I think you are right to find a way to train him out of the protectiveness. I'm just not sure how, but I'm sure you'll get a good answer here...


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I think that sometimes dominance and an alpha dog are confused by people. A dominant dog is not necessarily an alpha dogs. Insecure dogs can act dominant, but are not alphas, mainly because they are too insecure to be an alpha.

FlyingQuizini has given you some great advice, along with the name of a behaviorist. I would go that route, personally. There is a risk with a food guarder that a child could wander up, and that is an accident waiting to happen.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

IMHO, there should be no aggresion whatsoever. The question of him being insecure or alpha is simple. You should be the alpha, so yes I would say I'm the boss. You should take the food on you terms and he should instantly back down. I don't like hand feeding mostly because I hate the feeling of the kibble on my hands but I never want a dog to depend on me to hand feed it and not eat of a bowl. My advice would de-sensitising him to being touched and handled as well as his bowl and kibble be touched and handled. Just be firm and let him know this is a no no and stay consistant. It wil take some time but you will get there.


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

1. im not really in seattle area...im in central washington about 3 hours away for college, and have little extra money to pay an animal behaviorist. i will definately look into it though

2. i hand fed him for the first 7 months of his life, and he didnt change.
-i have tried just sitting , while petting him

3. he will growl whether hes in his kennel or not and has never guarded the kennel. (does have minor discomfort when people enter my car when hes behind the dog barrier, but not aggressive)

4. this realllllly worries me. however, i have to admit that i have not been consitent with any of the things i have tried... if i were to stick to ONE method, what would you all suggest?

he seems to really catch on when i sit with him and occasionally give him treat but only during the same meal. he forgets at the next meal that when i pet him, he gets a treat. i guess i forget that it really does take time for them to learn things like this. ive never had a puppy before, and im really upset about how i taught him. i obviously handled his food as a pup, i hand fed him for gods sake. could this be a genetic thing? he is from a BYB.. the breeder obviously didnt put her heart and soul into the breeding. could this be something that might never change?


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

Lisa said:


> Does he growl at you if you pet him or talk to him while giving him a biscuit with the other hand?


nope, never


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> IME, if you take the approach of "it's my food and I'll take it whenever I want" you'll only serve to confirm in his mind that yes, your presence near the food = a threat and that will likely make the behavior worse.
> 
> What have you done to try and work on it thus far? Does the same thing happen if he's eating outside of the crate? Does he ever guard the crate?
> 
> ...


 
well, i emailed kathy about private consultation...hope my dad agrees!:crossfing


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Thats a step. Good luck. There is only so much advice we can give when we can't observe the whole situation you know. Keep us posted though.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

foreveramber said:


> well, i emailed kathy about private consultation...hope my dad agrees!:crossfing


Oh good for you! She's really top notch! Even if you don't do a private consult with her, I'd trust her recommendations on a trainer for a good group class. If you end up getting together, tell her Stephanie Colman and Quiz referred you! You'll really like her!

Consistency is going to be key to modifying Jake's behavior. It's going to take time, patience, repetition/consistency. I personally would strongly advise against the "it's MY bowl" attitude and the associated "be the alpha" attiudes and suggestions that usually accompany it. Have you ever tried moving where the crate is? That's probably one of the first things I'd suggest -- trying to train a new association with the whole eating process by moving to a new area.

So - you can walk past the crate when he's eating and he doesn't growl? Are you sure there aren't any pre-growl warnings going on? For example:

- he starts eating faster
- he moves his body as though to block you from coming closer to the bowl
- he stops eating and sort of stiffens up

It's ONLY when you actually TOUCH him when he's eating? I'll have to go back to your earlier threads and see if you've said if you can hand feed and pet at the same time...

I hope your dad agrees to the visit with Kathy. 

Keep us posted...

-S


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Oh good for you! She's really top notch! Even if you don't do a private consult with her, I'd trust her recommendations on a trainer for a good group class. If you end up getting together, tell her Stephanie Colman and Quiz referred you! You'll really like her!
> 
> Consistency is going to be key to modifying Jake's behavior. It's going to take time, patience, repetition/consistency. I personally would strongly advise against the "it's MY bowl" attitude and the associated "be the alpha" attiudes and suggestions that usually accompany it. Have you ever tried moving where the crate is? That's probably one of the first things I'd suggest -- trying to train a new association with the whole eating process by moving to a new area.
> 
> ...


 
i can sit right next to the cage without a problem. anyone else sits near the crate,, jake wil tense or eat faster. when anyone pets him while hes eating, he growls. 

i CAN hand feed and pet at the same time. he really is a weird duck.


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