# Small Litter - Reason for Concern?



## Zooka

I hope some of the more experienced owners and/or breeders here can help me out. We've been looking for a female puppy from a reputable breeder here in the Toronto area. My wife and I visited a breeder today, and everything went really well - we spent a lot of time with her (breeder), the pups, their mother (6), and their grandmother (12). The sire is from another kennel. The breeder was very nice, asked us lots of questions, answered all of our millions of questions, and we were very pleased with both her, her dogs, and the kennel (basically, her home). She is obviously a smaller kennel, breeding about once a year, but clearly loves her dogs and was pretty thorough with us. Again, she was very nice, and what really impressed me was her promise to be available anytime for help/advice for as long as we need - she said that even though she may sell us a puppy, she feels like it will always be part of her family, and will be there for it's entire life. 

My only concern, and maybe it's nothing to be concerned about, is the size of the litter - there were only 3 pups - 2 boys, and 1 girl - all looked happy, healthy and playful, no one too dominant nor too submissive. All were about the same size (5 weeks old), with the female in the middle. My question is - does a small litter size reflect unhealthy puppies? She has clearances for eyes, heart, hips and elbow for all her breeding stock, and offers a 3 year health guarantee. Again, I just wasn't sure about the small litter size. Also any comments from anyone familiar with the breeder would be appreciated. The kennel is Keighley Registered Golden Retrievers, and the dam's name is Amber. The sire is Euchre from Kyon Kennels. Here are the websites:

http://www.keighleygoldens.com/upcoming_litters.html

http://www.kyonkennels.com/Retrievers/Goldens.htm

Thanks in advance for any help/advice.


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## Tahnee GR

A small litter is probably more indicative of timing being off when doing the breeding, or an older dam (6 is getting up there although certainly not too old) or sire, etc. than it is health of the pups. I would not be at all concerned about the health of the pups because of the small litter size. Just think of all the individual attention they have been able to get 

Euchre is a gorgeous boy! And her Ollie, Grenedier Northern Alliance is stunning.


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## TheHooch

I agree with the all wise one.


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## Maggies mom

TheHooch said:


> I agree with the all wise one.


Hooch are you agreeing with yourself?????:uhoh::uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:


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## TheHooch

Maggies mom said:


> Hooch are you agreeing with yourself?????:uhoh::uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:


Wellllllllllllllllll in this case it was not me but don;t tell her I gave her a compliment she might think I like her.


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## GoldenOwner12

i may not be a breeder but the way i see it small litters means less fighting over food with the pups. Also means that puppies would probably get feed better by mum, At least the pups don't have to fight over a nipple lol. Also means breeder would be able to spend more time with each puppy since theres only 3 puppies in the litter. Doesn't matter what size litter it is as long as mum is getting what she needs to produce the nutrience which then goes through to the milk then to the puppies is alright. I know of a breeder who breeds labradors her female is known to kicking out 13 puppies well with her litter she only ended up with 2 puppies. Cause there was only 2 puppies mum was feeding them alot and they ended up real strong and bit bigger then the other puppies this female produced.


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## Wilson's REAL Mom

My Shelby's a Kyon dog (Kyon's Cinderella). She is beautiful--the most laid back dog I've ever known. Looks like our dogs will have some of the same ancestors. Cool!

Good luck and have fun with your new girl.


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## Ljilly28

Congratulations on finding a lovely puppy.


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## Pointgold

I've had one singleton litter and that dog is one of the healthiest dogs I know - he obtained all clearances. I've had a litter of three. One of those puppies became Gini's first champion - Nitelite's True Nor'Easter. He obtained all clearances. Sadly, he was diagnosed with a very rare adrenal gland tumor - pheochromocytoma - the oncologists at MSU assured us that it was NOT hereditary, and extremely rare. Tiller was not yet three, and they'd only seen it in dogs over 10, and only one or two.
I've had a litter of two - Tommy and Wally - and they are beautiful, healthy puppies. 
My main concern with a very small litter is the puppies getting TOO much milk, and possibly becoming "swimmers" - getting so fat and moving around too little, causing the rib cage to "open" and flatten out. Although the only 2 swimmers I've ever had were from larger litters, it is more of a concern in small ones. Handling the puppies, moving them about, making them move across the whelping box to get to mom to nurse - all will help to prevent it.


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## AmbikaGR

Welcome to the forum and congrats on finding a pup. I will agree with the others that size of the litter would not be an indication of any health issues. And seeing as they are five weeks old none of the possible infant puppy issues would be of a concern to me at this time. It sounds like you are very comfortable with this breeder as they are you and that is SO important to me. 
Good luck!!


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## Zooka

Thanks to everyone for the advice and reassurance....feeling much better now. We pretty much knew before we even pulled out of the breeder's driveway that we'd be taking that pup home. Next step is to take our daughters (5 and 7 years old) up to see the dogs - they have no idea it's coming, and I can't wait to see their faces! 

This all seems to have happened so quickly, but we've actually been looking for quite a while. We knew we wanted a golden retriever, and we started looking at a rescue - that was frustrating. I'm not sure how easy it is to get a golden where you are, but here in Toronto, there are practically no goldens at the many many shelters in the area. There is a golden rescue organization in the city, but they have far more applicants than they have dogs, and we were told flat out 'sorry, we don't adopt to families with children under 12'. 

After a while, we started looking at breeders, and the more we looked, the more we knew we wanted to go the route of a reputable breeder, and very young pup....the whole experience. I guess we've already begun the whole experience, but the real fun begins in about 3 weeks!

Thanks again to everyone for their help - I'm sure I'll be asking for more very soon, and probably quite frequently.


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## Tahnee GR

TheHooch said:


> Wellllllllllllllllll in this case it was not me but don;t tell her I gave her a compliment she might think I like her.


Hey, I represent that comment! Thanks, Hooch dear :wave:


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## Phillyfisher

Tucker was from a litter of 3- no issues here, other than all of the pups being large for their age- Tucker was 18 lbs at 8 weeks. He was certainly well socialized when we picked him up at 10 weeks. Good luck with your pup!


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## Pointgold

Phillyfisher said:


> Tucker was from a litter of 3- no issues here, other than all of the pups being large for their age- Tucker was 18 lbs at 8 weeks. He was certainly well socialized when we picked him up at 10 weeks. Good luck with your pup!


 
Being from a smaller litter, the pups may be large for their age, but they will only get as big as they are genetically predisposed to be, utlimately. (This doesn't include being overweight, but only overall height, bone, etc.)


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## Phillyfisher

PG- This is good to hear, and what we have thought. We have noticed at 6 months Tucker is starting to slow down growth wise. But with everyone we meet telling us how big Tucker is, it made us wonder if he would be around the weight (70-75#) his parents are or the giant everyone else is telling us he will be!


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## Softpaws

Our girl Willow came from a litter of 5. Her mom Summer was 6.5 years old. The pups are larger than normal and are very health. The pups are 17 weeks old now. Willow is almost 30 lbs. Picture below is at 15 weeks.


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## Pointgold

Phillyfisher said:


> PG- This is good to hear, and what we have thought. We have noticed at 6 months Tucker is starting to slow down growth wise. But with everyone we meet telling us how big Tucker is, it made us wonder if he would be around the weight (70-75#) his parents are or the giant everyone else is telling us he will be!


Our Tiller was THE biggest beast as a puppy, and I really was worried that he'd go over standard. He was in the 12-18 month class, looking like a horse to me, but he ended up well within and was a truly moderate dog. 
Everyone looks at my puppies and thinks that because their paws look like toilet plungers they are going to be HUGE! Never the case. I don't worry, I plan these breedings with a very good idea what I am going to get!


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## Phillyfisher

Pointgold said:


> Everyone looks at my puppies and thinks that because their paws look like toilet plungers they are going to be HUGE! Never the case. I don't worry, I plan these breedings with a very good idea what I am going to get!


Our breeder says the same thing, but with everyone telling us he is going to be huge, we were beginning to doubt her! Thanks for the insight.


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## Brady's mom

What an interesting thread! Our puppy came from a litter of four (born 10/07) and the breeder recently told us his mom is retired now, so I assume she was an older dog. 

When we picked up Brady, we met another litter of half-siblings (same dad) born within a day of Brady's litter, and Brady and his brother were MUCH bigger! I'm attaching a pic of Brady and two half-siblings--he's the one in the middle. We always joke that he was the biggest puppy in two litters, but he's not at all abnormally large now at 10 months.


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