# Veteran w/service dog removed from plane



## JLC44 (Jun 18, 2013)

www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/23348254/2013/09/05/disabled-war-veteran-kicked-off-us-airways-plane

This really aggravates me. People with disabilities have the right to be accompanied by service dogs, but they are also responsible for knowing the laws and rules that apply. Standing there yelling about the ADA when the ADA does not apply infuriates me. 

He is allowed to have his service dog accompany him, and the airline did not try to deny him that. They just wanted the dog on the floor. A person cannot sit without their seatbelt on, you can not have your carry-on bag on an empty seat, the dog is no different. Service dogs are considered medical equipment, and you can't have a 70 pound piece of medical equipment sitting in a seat unrestrained.

The airline handled this correctly, and treated him far better than they had to. He could have been charged with very serious offenses, and they did not have to pay hotel stay.

Sorry had to vent.


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## dborgers (Dec 7, 2011)

Love your signature pic ... and the work you're doing with Camaro


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## JLC44 (Jun 18, 2013)

Thanks. Can't really say I do much though, the trainers and fosters did all the work to get him ready, and now he is the one doing all the work. My job is just to maintain his training and not screw him up.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Link did not work for me. Found this one.

Police escorted a Vietnam veteran off a flight after a dispute over his service dog | News - Home


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## JLC44 (Jun 18, 2013)

Thanks .. fixed link now.


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

They should not have paid for his overnight stay. He should have been charged with whatever laws were appropriate. He was out of control and abusive.


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

Definitely out of line!!! 


Sent from Petguide.com App


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## Juno's Parents (Jun 23, 2012)

I am all for disabled veterans having service animals, especially since I'm a disabled veteran with TWO service animals. However, I think this guy did not know the ADA laws that well and became belligerent. I have faced a lot of people/companies that tried to deny me for having an animal and I think that is why he became irate but still, the law says, the animal has to be on the floor under the seat. Keep your dog there brother. There was no need to pay for a hotel either.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

It seems to be a pattern with US Airways. 

Tip for Airlines: Don't Kick a Blind Man and His Guide Dog Off a Plane Unless You Have a Very, Very Good Reason | Independent Journal Review


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## JLC44 (Jun 18, 2013)

Claudia M said:


> It seems to be a pattern with US Airways.
> 
> Tip for Airlines: Don't Kick a Blind Man and His Guide Dog Off a Plane Unless You Have a Very, Very Good Reason | Independent Journal Review




The first one US Airways was right, this one isn't as clear. It appears that US Air was wrong but then I remember that all the passengers were on the veteran's side in the first one too, so they aren't really the best judges of what is right and what is not. 

Without video and from the articles there just isn't enough for me to decide one way or the other but would lean towards US Air was wrong. I'm surprised planes don't have the cameras like public buses yet.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Let's not forget that we are talking about a vet with PTSD in the first video. IF and I emphasize on IF the flight attendant was rude as described in the second video that could have most likely contributed to the vet's response and the fact that the other passengers sided with him. The video shows but a snippet of what happened there. 
Since many people who witnessed the entire thing in both cases sided with the person in question I am inclined to believe that there is more to the story.


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## JLC44 (Jun 18, 2013)

I watched the 10 minute video and read the account by the passenger that filmed it, no where was the flight attendant rude or described as rude. He was asked to follow the rules and laws and became belligerent, abusive, and profane, so they took him off the plane. I am all for standing up for your rights, but you have to know what your rights are first, and he did not, neither did the passengers.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

A belligerent and abusive person does not turn around and apologizes to the people. One thing people are missing is this VET's PTSD. The video does not show the initial approach to him.

I am also taking to heart the comments by other pilots who agree with the vet and also state that there is not enough space on a small airplane for a golden retriever to fit under the seat. Thru the entire 10 minutes of the video the golden retriever was under control and well behaved. 
From what I could tell the vet just got of another plane on which he was allowed to keep the dog next to him. I am inclined to believe it was a different airline which is not hostile to animals (more so a service dog) and recognizes that a dog such as a golden retriever cannot possibly fit under those seats. 

Furthermore, I personally cannot imagine how a dog can be more of a risk sitting next to the person as opposed to sitting at the feet. I watched how a lady could not get pass her husband unless he got up, went onto the isle and even then she had to pass sideways. 
I wish more people would have had the courage just like in the second instance with the same US Airways (where they had the issue with the dog not being ENTIRELY under the seat) to stand up and say "I am leaving the plane if this man is made to leave the plane".


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Claudia M said:


> It seems to be a pattern with US Airways.
> 
> Tip for Airlines: Don't Kick a Blind Man and His Guide Dog Off a Plane Unless You Have a Very, Very Good Reason | Independent Journal Review


Now *this *is wrong!


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## JLC44 (Jun 18, 2013)

Claudia M said:


> A belligerent and abusive person does not turn around and apologizes to the people. One thing people are missing is this VET's PTSD. The video does not show the initial approach to him.
> 
> I am also taking to heart the comments by other pilots who agree with the vet and also state that there is not enough space on a small airplane for a golden retriever to fit under the seat. Thru the entire 10 minutes of the video the golden retriever was under control and well behaved.
> From what I could tell the vet just got of another plane on which he was allowed to keep the dog next to him. I am inclined to believe it was a different airline which is not hostile to animals (more so a service dog) and recognizes that a dog such as a golden retriever cannot possibly fit under those seats.
> ...



Why can't he? He was belligerent and abusive towards the flight crew not the other passengers. No one is missing his PTSD but that does not mean he gets to act however he likes or ignore laws and rules. No the video doesn't show the approach but no one has claimed the crew was rude to him or in any way unprofessional, and what the video does show is him being treated politely and courteously. 

There is enough space for the dog to be on the floor which is what the crew asked him to do. Yes the dog was well behaved, the dogs behavior was never the problem the vet's behavior was. If the dog was allowed to sit with him for the previous flight that is irrelevant. I can drive past a cop at 80mph if he doesn't pull me over that doesn't mean I am always allowed to drive 80mph. 

You are free to have your opinion on what is best however the law is what matters. The law says the airline had every right to request the dog be on the floor, and that is the only point of contention in this situation who was right about the dog being on the seat, the airline knew the law the vet did not. I wish he was like most service dog handlers and took the time to learn the laws that go along with it, if he had then this would have never happened. If the passengers had protested in this case it wouldn't have been courage it would have been ignorance.


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