# True golden with some black fur?



## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

I had never seen a golden with a mix of black. It "sported" like roses do sometimes.

I ran into this dog (and his person) today. Lovely, nice golden, but I was quite startled.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

That's so interesting! Did you ask about it? Did the parents have any black markings as well? Kind of reminds me of Charlie Brown's shirt in the Peanuts cartoon.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Yep, it can and does happen. It is a Somatic Mutation. It occurs individually as a fetus develops when a cell will mutate from the e recessive for our normal golden coloring to E for black pigment. The earlier in the cell division/development cycle, the larger the spots. It does not affect the genes the dog will pass on so it is not passed on through heredity. 

Breeders who happen to have these pups generally report these puppies are usually high demand and every home wants the special puppy.:


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

I did ask. He said the parents were golden.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Yup, somatic mutation, not heritable. Someone on FB posted a picture of a very well bred Golden baby with a black patch on her face-she was absolutely adorable


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## Daisy123 (Jan 26, 2009)

Daisy has a black hair here and there but not noticeable.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

Yep, agree with Tahnee GR, I just saw a photo of a pup from a reputable breeder that had a patch of black on her tail. Nothing wrong with the puppy.


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## Capt Jack (Dec 29, 2011)

There's a Golden in my neighborhood that has a black tail but the owner says he came from a reputable breeder and I believe her


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## NewfieMom (Sep 8, 2013)

I had never heard of that before. Thank you for posting the photo and the information. I think most of us on the forum who are not experts want to keep learning about the breed. (And of course the experts keep honing their skills, too. They are just at a higher level of expertise already!)

NewfieMom


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## dezymond (May 3, 2012)

I had no idea this was possible. I think it looks good. That's the spot usually where there is a lighter shade band going around too.


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## Eclipse (Apr 21, 2014)

I love recessive genes in Goldens! =) I heard the black markings are supposed to be more common than the white ones.


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## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

My Holly has a black patch on her side. It's one of the reasons I picked her.,


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## Taylorsmum (Sep 30, 2014)

Taylor has a small black patch on his stifle and a larger one between his front legs (not as definitively black as the photo).When it first appeared on his stifle I thought he had got into some oil and then the second patch appeared. He has the odd one or two rogue black hairs as well as a little white tiger striping. I often wondered how it could happen so many thanks for the information.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

So interesting! I had no idea that could happen. I was highly suspicious that the owner had dyed him!


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

If you want to see some really interesting somatic mutations, google goldens with somatic mutations and view the photos. There are some fabulous markings on some of these dogs!


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Eclipse said:


> I love recessive genes in Goldens! =) I heard the black markings are supposed to be more common than the white ones.


 Actually, the golden color is the recessive. Goldens carry two copies and when a cell mutates it goes to eE, making that cell's hair, and all the cells descended from it also have black hair. Black is dominant. It is impossible for a Golden to be totally black, though- the cells 'fall' down from the spine. The dogs people say are black Goldens (the ones that are completely black) actually had someone else in the woodpile with mama!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Just a funny note - while grooming Bertie for a show the other day, I thought that a couple of my own hairs got tangled with his "chest hair". But nope. They were his. Looked closer and he had exactly 2 long black hairs.

I was grooming with a friend at the time and we had a good laugh about it. And then I plucked them. 

Not the first time I've found blacks hairs on any of my dogs, but yeesh, these were pretty noticeable.

*One of my neighbors had a golden who would have been her breeder's show pick if it were not for the big black patch she had (I think in her mane). I think her name was Ink-something (Inky?). It looked like somebody spilled black ink on her. Really well-bred girl though.


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## Eclipse (Apr 21, 2014)

Prism Goldens said:


> Actually, the golden color is the recessive. Goldens carry two copies and when a cell mutates it goes to eE, making that cell's hair, and all the cells descended from it also have black hair. Black is dominant. It is impossible for a Golden to be totally black, though- the cells 'fall' down from the spine. The dogs people say are black Goldens (the ones that are completely black) actually had someone else in the woodpile with mama!


Oh! That's really interesting! Do you know if the white is dominant or recessive?


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## wjane (Oct 12, 2013)

Fascinating - thanks for all this interesting information.


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## Marcus (Aug 24, 2014)

Can you imagine the amount of black hair on everything...I'll stick to my light coloured golden who I can't see any sheaded hair


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## ladyjay (Apr 16, 2015)

This is very interesting. My Duchess has semi-white paws and a little white on her chest.


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

Sweet Girl said:


> So interesting! I had no idea that could happen. I was highly suspicious that the owner had dyed him!


Nope, not dyed. I thought so at first also.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Eclipse said:


> Oh! That's really interesting! Do you know if the white is dominant or recessive?


White on the toes or head (like a pencil thin blaze) tend to disappear by the time the coat comes in. White on the front of the chest tends to be seen more often in field lines. White around the neck, like a collie, probably does have a collie involved.... that's because the way the color develops starts at the spine and when white is there, it's unlikely one could blame it on any cause other than an unknown sire.

There are a lot of reasons that can cause white spots from prenatal (incomplete melanocyte migration - which could happen as a result of inheriting slow migration, or because something impairs it) to throwback to setters behind the whole breed. White's not as easy as the black, which is simple. Coat color genetics involve quite a few loci. And white coloring can come from a piebald,ticking, merling too.


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## janababy (Jan 2, 2012)

We use to see a man walk his Golden who had black spots mixed within his fur. Ask him one day about it. He said many generations ago Goldens carried the gene for black fur. I had no idea. Learn something new every day!


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

janababy said:


> We use to see a man walk his Golden who had black spots mixed within his fur. Ask him one day about it. He said many generations ago Goldens carried the gene for black fur. I had no idea. Learn something new every day!


All Goldens ARE genetically black. They've always carried that gene. It's what makes yellow. EE or Ee would look black. ee would be yellow. ee is the recessive black color, or yellow. When the spots show up (not when a supposed Golden is totally black- that's a different sire without any question because there is no way every cell that will make color has mutated from ee to eE ) they are the hair growing cells that have mutated and that cell's decendants.


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

But is a PB (CKC papered) Golden able to be shown? isn’t the black mutation considered a serious fault? We have an adorable pup- and we spent a considerable amount of money for him- hhis bloodlines are excellent- but we discovered this tiny black pot on one of his front paws.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

sevans said:


> But is a PB (CKC papered) Golden able to be shown? isn’t the black mutation considered a serious fault? We have an adorable pup- and we spent a considerable amount of money for him- hhis bloodlines are excellent- but we discovered this tiny black pot on one of his front paws.


It looks like it is on the side around the dew claw area? That looks way too insignificant to worry about.


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

Megora said:


> It looks like it is on the side around the dew claw area? That looks way too insignificant to worry about.


No- it is just behind his last nail of the exterior aspect of the paw. I know virtually nothing about the GR show ring but had read that black hair is a serious fault. This pup was nearly $3000 from a well respected breeder who is very active in the club. Certainly understand that genetic mutation happens through no one’s fault and that it is not passed on ( though we are not considering breeding and have him currently on a non-breeding contract)







- but if this renders the pup “unshowable”…


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## PalouseDogs (Aug 14, 2013)

Just to reiterate what someone else already wrote, the black, irregular blotches on the golden in the OP are NOT caused by a recessive or dominant gene. They are not inheritable at all. It is caused by a somatic mutation in the embryo, meaning it is not affecting the gametes (eggs or sperm). It shows up in yellow labs, too.


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## PalouseDogs (Aug 14, 2013)

A link to a thread about "Mystic", a yellow lab with black splotches that ran in the 2019 NRC.









Interesting Picture from the 2019 NRC


Scrolling through the blog this morning and I saw this pic and it really stood out to me. The coloring on that dog is something I've never seen before. Also, it has boots/pad covers on. Are the dogs allowed to wear these coverings due to the rough terrain/conditions?




www.retrievertraining.net





(White patches and spots on Goldens ARE inheritable and common among field goldens.)


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

It’s definitely possible and it happens. I can’t say that I would turn one away with a black patch.


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## Leona (Jan 4, 2022)

Gwen_Dandridge said:


> I had never seen a golden with a mix of black. It "sported" like roses do sometimes.
> 
> I ran into this dog (and his person) today. Lovely, nice golden, but I was quite startled.


I was brought to this page because my AKC Golden retriever that was bred to another AKC retriever just had a baby with a black spot on its tail. The entire batch looks like full needs including her except that little spot. I didn’t know this was possible


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