# 14 week female golden - extreme aggression.



## tonisaysss (Nov 6, 2009)

hello all. i have a 14 week old golden retriever that we bought when she was around 8 weeks from an independent breeder. the mother and father were very friendly and it was a nice environment. 

she has been crate trained and this has definitely helped with potty issues. however, when she does have an accident in the house, she knows she's about to be crated and reacts accordingly. at first, she growled and groaned -- now, i hate to say it, but she acts viciously. wailing her head around, growling, snarling, biting, snapping. it's scary. 

when we find she has had an accident, we stick her nose close to the spot, say "no, go potty outside" etc, and place her in the crate all while she's throwing a tantrum and attempting to bite.

it's scary seeing such a small puppy react so viciously. we love her and she's an angel otherwise. just looking for some advice.










thanks.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Hi!

Welcome. She is beautiful!

First off- stop with the crating after an accident! The crate should NEVER EVER be used for punishment!!! It should be a happy, secure place.

Next, do not ever shove a puppy's nose in an accident. I know this was the old fashioned way many of our parents used, but it's been proven to be ineffective and to cause problems just like those you mention. The best response is to say, "no no!" IF YOU SEE HER IN THE ACT and take her outside.

When she goes potty outside PRAISE and treat. 

If you don't catch her in the act, then don't punish her at all. Never ever let her out of your sight until she is fully trained. This way, accidents won't happen. Set her up for success. If you see her sniffing, circling, etc, take her out. The moment she wakes from a nap, take her out. If you cannot watch her, calmly take her to her crate and reward her with a safe toy (like a kong with peanutbutter inside) and tell her she's a good girl. 

Glad to have you!


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## gottaBgolden (Jan 16, 2008)

*First I would say when she has an accident, tell her "no" and immediately take her out and tell her "go potty", stay a little and if she goes again lots of praise,if not be VIGALENT on catching her before she goes again and when you go out always say "go potty" or something similar. You have to be careful not to use the crate for punishment or you will get bad results from using it.*

*Jenna- we were typing at the same time--you beat me! LOL*


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

She sees you as the aggressor and is reacting accordingly.
In my opinion...you are using the crate as punishment for an housebreaking issue which may beyond her physical ability to control.

Again, in my opinion, your choice of how to handle a typical, natural housebreaking issue is not enhancing the relationship you are trying to build with your dog.


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## tonisaysss (Nov 6, 2009)

thank you all for your responses. you're right about not crating her as a punishment -- i'm kicking myself for not realizing that.

we take her out, especially after naps, and she runs around barking when she needs to go #2 (if she's feeling generous, i guess) but sometimes it's like she goes out of spite and it's a millisecond pee. 

i will definitely start taking her out directly after i catch her from now on. hopefully she'll make the connection.

thanks again!


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## buckeyegoldenmom (Oct 5, 2008)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Hi!
> 
> Welcome. She is beautiful!
> 
> ...


Great advice Jenna!! I would only tell the OP, in addition, to do a search on this forum on housebreaking for more ideas.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Don't beat yourself up! You are learning and asking for help. That's awesome!

Dogs don't do anything out of spite, though, even though I KNOW it looks that way sometimes.

If she is peeing frequent, small amounts suspect a urinary tract infection. This is VERY common in female puppies. If that's the case, she can't help it.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

tonisaysss said:


> but sometimes it's like she goes out of spite and it's a millisecond pee.


puppies do not go out of spite, it is because of very limited bladder control, Its up to you to be vigilant in getting her to where you want her to eliminate. If she has an accident indoors that you haven't caught her in the act of doing, clean it up and carry on...please remember your puppy is a baby.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

tonisaysss said:


> thank you all for your responses. you're right about not crating her as a punishment -- i'm kicking myself for not realizing that.
> 
> we take her out, especially after naps, and she runs around barking when she needs to go #2 (if she's feeling generous, i guess) but sometimes it's like she goes out of spite and it's a millisecond pee.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the board! There are lots, and lots of thread with good advice on potty training, well worth the effort to look them up.

She's not doing anything out of spite, dogs are not capable of that. And she probably feels threatened when you grab her, hence the snapping and snarling. Make coming to you and being picked up by a happy thing, give treats and toys when you need to pick her up so the learns to associate good things with it.

She is a tiny baby whose bladder is not physically mature or large enough to hold her pee, she will have the sudden need to potty until she is several months older. She does not have full control of it yet.

Make potty training a happy process, take her outside and use the same cue word every single time, then when she does go have a party, tell her good potty, good potty in a happy, up beat voice and give hear a treat. You want her to think going potty outside in the right place is the best trick she's ever done.

There should never be any punishment for accidents, it is totally counter productive. Think of it this way, would you punish a human baby for wetting their diaper? Your puppy is the equivalent of a human baby in a diaper, only she is already having to learn to potty in the right toilet area already.

Turn it all around and make every interaction positive and I'm sure in a short time you will see great progress.

She is a beautiful puppy.


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## jenlaur (Jun 24, 2009)

You have gotten good advice. When Riley was potty training we took her out every 20 minutes and immedialtely after a nap. We praised her heavily (I'm sure the neighbors thought we were nuts) and gave her a treat. Also, you did not say how she feels about the crate otherwise, but if you are having problems with that now try feeding her in the crate (with the door open) and offering her high value treats like a cream cheese filled kong or a marrow bone when you put her in. Soon she will no longer associate the crate with punishment for having an accident in the house. Oh, and she sure is a cutie!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Our vet once showed me an xray of a puppy's bladder- it is the size of a walnut at first! 

From the pup's viewpoint, it is only natural to go when you have to go, so you're asking her to make a big leap in comprehnsion. It is hard to learn and be scared at the same time. That is why I really agree with AquaClaraCanines advice to you. Focus on praising when she does the right thing, and teach her a potty phrase like "hurry up" or "get busy". Make sure to clean up any accidents with Nature's Miracle or another enzyme formula that takes away all the smells which signal a potty place.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I'll second lots of other posts by agreeing that this definitely isn't an aggressive dog, but rather a defensive one. She doesn't feel safe, and she's defending herself from what seems like aggression from you. You have to stop manhandling her and making confrontations out of her obedience. I would definitely switch to positive-only training (aside from making a loud, startling noise if you catch her _during_ an accident).

You need to build trust with this dog. Show her all good things come from you and that you don't become a noisy, giant, grabby, threat at random (seems random to her) times.


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## tonisaysss (Nov 6, 2009)

thank you all for the great advice! i've owned a lab years ago and i guess i had forgotten that bladder control is still in development.

we just got home from petsmart and the dog park. she's very timid around other dogs yet beats up my poor min-pin. 

we bought her a kong and puppy filling for night time when she's crated. it really makes a lot of sense to make the crate feel like a home rather than a punishment so i guess we're gonna have to start working at it.

she does very well with the crate actually; normally whines maybe the first 5 minutes depending on how tired she is. the first few nights were rough, but she's only had one accident.

hopefully tonight will go better with treats and a new approach.


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## esSJay (Apr 13, 2009)

Lots of great advice given already. Reiterating what others have already said and worked for our dog...

1) Take her out often. If you just took her out 20 minutes before and she peed, get her back outside because it's probably already time to go again! 

2) Pick a phrase to use as soon as she starts to squat, and use it everytime. Ours is "Go pee". Say "good girl" as soon as she starts peeing and wait for the FULL praise until after she's done (get out the pom-poms and dance around in excitement). 

3) Goldens are very easy to train through *positive reinforcement*. Yelling at them for what they did bad will not teach them how to do something correctly. If they get all this attention, praise, treats and rewards for having GOOD behaviour, they will continually want to continue with that and will quickly forget about doing the bad ones that they don't get anything from.

4) Have patience and stay calm. Yelling at the dog is only going to make her act in self-defense, which is contributing to the aggression on her end. 

5) Never associate the crate with punishment. To help get her to like it, feed her in there with the door open, only give her the best treats when she goes in, reward her with treats/praise when she goes in on her own, and understand that the crate is HER space. Never try to drag her out of it, and never make her feel threatened while she is in there. 

Hope this works for you and please keep us posted on your progress


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## tonisaysss (Nov 6, 2009)

aside from what has already been said, i also have a miniature pinscher. she's around 3 now and is extremely laid back and not really interested in puppy romping.

layla is extremely dominant. if lola, my min-pin, has a toy then she has to take it. she chases the min pin all throughout the house when lola is obviously not interested whatsoever. i'm not sure if i should leave them alone and allow them to work out their own issues, *considering the puppy is not aggressive and just wanted to play.* the min-pin has growled a few times at the puppy, which has made her back off a bit, but sometimes she doesn't. 

it's also funny, because at the dog park, layla is a perfect little angel. timid as can be. tail between legs, wagging with excitement. 

they have played together a few times, but being strong-armed isn't something lola enjoys.

if anyone has any suggestions, whether i should let them work things out on their own or not, i'd greatly appreciate it!

thanks again.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Lots of puppies are total brats to older dogs. It's generally referred to as having a "puppy license", which means that the older dogs tolerate it to a point. Once the puppy hits about 14-16 weeks, that license is revoked and the adult dogs will generally start correcting the puppy more fiercely. Your min pin will probably start telling the puppy off pretty soon. If you feel like the puppy is picking on your min pin too hard, then you need to tell her "enough" and remove her from the area where your min pin is. Eventually, she will learn that "enough" means to leave the other dog alone. But in general, I would let your older dog tell the younger one off.


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## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

My pup is about 14 weeks old as well. She needs to go out ALOT, especially after I see she has had some water. There are ven times, she has to pee 15 minutes of being out to pee. They are stil so young to contro t fr long, you just need to be alittlemore atient.Holding it WILL COME. I also have a 6 month old wh no longer has accidents in he house and rings the bell I placed on the front door when he wants to go out. 

Also, I wanted o tl you o get som nATURES MIRACLE t use after you clean up th pee pee spot in the huse. It helps to get rid of the scent better than just detergent alone.

When you do per her in the crate put a treat in there for her to try to put a positive spin on the crate rather than a negative


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## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

I missed your last post....to this I would d:

Sincwe I have 2, although the oldest is only 6 month,I have that thing going on here ALL the time. They constatnly want each others toys and they sometimes make a game out of it, BUT they can sometimes get alittle fierce over it. I usually dont get involved unless it gets too heated, or unless one looks like he/she is being espeically annoying.


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

Hi and welcome to the forum :wavey:


tonisaysss said:


> when we find she has had an accident, we stick her nose close to the spot, say "no, go potty outside" etc, and place her in the crate all while she's throwing a tantrum and attempting to bite.
> 
> *it's scary seeing such a small puppy react so viciously.* we love her and she's an angel otherwise. just looking for some advice.


If you stop and think about it it must be pretty scary for her, also. Here is a good article on potty training a puppy:
http://www.clickertraining.com/housetraining

~~ Cathy ~~


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## Tanyac (Jun 18, 2008)

I don't have anything to add as you've had some excellent advice already, I just wanted to say "welcome!" and your pup is really cute


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## Daisy and Rita (Aug 31, 2009)

Hi, our pup is a couple of weeks older than yours (mine is now 17 weeks) and we too had her at 8 weeks old. I really don't know why, but I house trained her within 3 days aged just nearly 9 weeks! (I really don't understand it??). All I can say is how I went about house training her (I am also at home all day/night with her-so that obviously helped), but having had a dog in the past, I certainly remembered you had to quite literally watch them like hawks during their early times. 

I have never used a crate, and not sure why one would be needed for house training? also as mentioned above by others in the forum, showing or rubbing a puppies nose in it's mess and telling them off, honestly will NEVER solve the problem. They really are babies and I can't see how they can understand that at all.

Any way, from day one aged 8 weeks, I watched and literally followed her every single move (whilst everyone else in the house watched tv!! :-( of course she is going to piddle on the carpet etc, so the very second I saw her sniffing about and start to squat, I 'very calmly' picked her up and took her straight outside, and yes sometimes piddling along the way, but that obviously can't be helped, I just remained calm. Some times she wouldn't carrying on pee'ing because she had already finished it, other times she would finish it outside with just a seconds worth of pee, but that was enough to warrant the time for lots and lots of hugs and words of 'Good Girl!!' with a peice of a delious puppy treat.

I never ever told her off for pee'ing in the house, because it's a totally normal function, it's not wrong to pee, it's just training her not to do it in the house.

My answer is be Vigilant and think for her, taking her outside after meals/drinks or excitement.

I found that keeping calm when she did it in the house but just saying ah, ah, (a calm but negative tone), then take her outside and _then_ when she does her toilet outside give lots of 'excited' words 'Good Girl' etc, and a reward 'Immediatley' when she has has finished. But as your puppy is only a couple of weeks younger than mine, she may be too heavy to pick up now, so if I were you, I would now wait till you know/think she should be due for a wee, and just stand outside with her, regardless of how long it takes, and have a hidden treat in your pocket and wait, wait and wait (yawn-lol) then when she finally goes - make a BIG fuss of her and *immediately* give her the treat. Do this for a few days and I'm sure she will learn - your perserverance (and bordom) will pay wonders 

Hope this also helps, and good luck, just watch her, watch her and keep watching, with lots of rewards and 'good girl' when she pee's outside, she will soon learn that doing it outside results in you being happy resulting in her getting a lovely treat and lots of hugs


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## Bkhollan (Aug 18, 2009)

Bella is just now a little over 4 months old so all the potty training is still fresh in my mind. Luckily Bella was really fast about learning that if she went outside she got some sort of treat and lots of praise/play time. She still had an occasional accident, but that was mostly due to me trying to get her different kinds of treat that really upset her stomach which lead to a sudden URGENT need to go outside. She hasn't gone inside the house in at least a month, and has free reign of the house all day long. She is really a calm dog indoors unlike my Miniature Pinscher until she got older. I wish you the best of luck.


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

Cute pup! You've gotten great advice about house breaking and crate training; really can't add anything.

As for your pup being timid at the dog park, and being dominant around your min pin at home, well, she is probably feel more confident in her own surroundings--nothing unusual about that. For young dogs, I always try to make sure that outings away from home result in happy positive experiences--for example, at dog parks, you usually don't know if all the other dogs are well socialized, so I generally stay away (to be honest, no matter what age, but that's a decision each person makes, but for a young pup, I would try other things). Short walks around the neighborhood greeting your friends; if there's other people with nice dogs--introductions in a neutral place--that type of thing. Even a puppy obedience class--I found one for my young pup when she was 3 months old and we were one of 5--great training!


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## lynnzieandme (Sep 27, 2009)

my puppy took awhile to potty train too,

but one reason she couldbe getting so uppset, is that that she is afraid of her kennell becouse she has been punished in it, it isnt a safe place for her anymore, she can tell u she hates it so she uses body language which for dogs is growling snapping.etc.

so try to make her kennel a place were she knows she can relax and be protected, puppys naturely like secure places it might help to give her some new toys in her kennel or to give her a bone there

and what i had to do with my dog while she was still young is i followed her evry were and i even atatch a leash to her collar and just let it drag behind her so when i noticed her sniffing around i would imidiantly tell her outside and lead her to the door by her leash and give her the chance to go outide
so she never evan has a chance of using it in the house

and when she does have an accident in stead of sticking her nose in the pee i would just pull her leash a little towards the spot and point @ it and tell her no! u might have to catch her in the act of it, one reason she might becoming agrresive is becouse she doesnt know why she is being punished so she becomes upset.

hope i helped


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## zephyr (Sep 29, 2009)

What a sweet puppy!!!! I totally understand your frustration, we also had some trouble getting Oscar housebroken. BUT as you've received great advice already, so I won't repeat it hehe (although there are MANY threads on this topic you can find on the forum, as it is always popular I guess LOL)

I just wanted to add (I don't know if anyone said this already) that I have heard many places that the reason you *don't want to correct them *(say NO! or AH-AH! or whatever your phrase is, never actually PUNISH them) *AFTER they have already done the "bad" thing* (e.g. go potty inside) is because they *cannot connect* what you are upset about with the "bad" thing that they did. They for sure know you are mad (and probably at them), but they don't understand why, and basically the message you are sending is that they need to be on guard around you because occasionally (and *unpredictably*, to them) you get mad!! (This is why "rubbing their nose in it" is never going to work, they will just be confused and upset. Also, you definitely never want to accidentally send the message that _going_ to the potty is wrong, else they might think they need to be sneaky about it and start to hide it in the house and/or out of your sight...)

When you think about it, she is actually soo smart to figure out that you acting "upset" means she has to go in her crate!  (Even though she is almost surely not realizing WHY you were upset in the first place.) But as you have already realized from others' advice, the crate should be a happy, peaceful, sleepy/play/dinner place (not a punishment), so all you have to do is just associate it with GOOD things... always give her treats in there, or feed her dinner in there, whatever it takes. She will figure it out pretty quickly... they are smart! 

I will add that Oscar was a SCREAMER for the first few weeks whenever we put him his crate (at least during the day, at night he was okay); I think he just HATED that we were up and about and he was stuck in there alone! But I think we just weren't giving him any incentive and/or were sending the wrong message... we started giving him Kongs with peanut butter inside (frozen) in there, and other such "goodies", or making sure he was all tired out from playing before he went in there... and very quickly he was totally fine with his "naps" during the day in his crate. Once you get into a pattern and she understands that good things (quiet time, snacks, etc.) happen in the crate (vs. loneliness, or an upset human) then all will be good! 

Keep up the good work


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

We used the crate to confine our puppy when we couldn't watch her...like WE had to go potty or get the mail in or run to the store. When she was out of the crate we watched her like a hawk. 

You'll get to know her 'body language' when she's looking for a place to go. Get her attention and get her outside. Then praise lavishly when she goes, even just a little. You are teaching "this not that" in a positive way.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

Only one thing to add, learned from experience, make sure you give her enough time to go when you take her outside. 2 minutes is not enough time or 5 sometimes.


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## tonisaysss (Nov 6, 2009)

she's barely 3 and a half months and today was our first accident-free day. she started going to our front door and whining/barking/jumping at the knob to go out just this weekend. the crate has definitely saved us hours of sleep and is a lifesaver.

she still is a bit wary of the crate but she's walked in on her own a few times to retriever a toy, so i suppose that's progress.

she gets spooked easily and still growls; normally if i go up behind her and touch her without her knowing who it is -- i suppose that's understandable, so we've been avoiding approaching her from that end.

we found a new dog park with a lake. she is very timid (tail between legs, etc) around strange dogs as of now, however she comes home to beat the living daylight out of my min-pin. she's found a dauchsund that she's fond of at the park, but that's about it.

oh well! at least there's some potty progress of an update.

oh, and she's huge now.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

It sounds corny, but I'm proud of you! And her. You are doing amazingly well. Go you!

Every time you approach her from behind, call her name sweetly first 

Socialize, socialize, and socialize some more! Sit in front of Walmart and let everyone pet her. Take her to a class. Anything like that.


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## tonisaysss (Nov 6, 2009)

thanks! it's like having a child... we feel like we've come a long way, lol.

however, it's ONLY dogs that she's timid with. she loves and adores all stangers, loves to lick random faces and will hide under just about anyone's legs. when people see her at the park, they ask if it's her first time when she's been nearly a dozen times. we're persistent now though. i guess time will tell.

anyway, while i'm here, i was wondering how early would be too early to get her fixed? she's probably a little young now, but i hear mixed reviews like waiting until she's sexually mature, etc. there's no real hurry, but i'm curious.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Eh, some dogs are more timid than others. My 11 month old is so timid that the only dog she has ever played with was a 5lb cockapoo. 

You'll get mixed replies on when to spay her. Some say wait until after the first heat, other say around 6-8 months. I spayed Flora at 7 months.


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