# Spaying! Would love advice ASAP!



## OnceAGoldenAlwaysAGolden (Jul 8, 2008)

Ok so today we are spaying our 7 month old girl. Our breeder is not happy since she believes it is not good for her since her plates will not be together yet and it messes with growth. Our vet however disagrees with her saying that she sees alot of breast cancer in dogs who are not spayed. I even contacted a vet oncologist and a vet orthopedic surgeon and they both said we should do it now. 
I am so torn. We just want to do what is right for our girl but I feel like no one person is 100% right.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

One thing to consider is the contract you have with the breeder. Most have a clause stating you will wait and you need to see what actions the breeder can take if you break this contract.

My question to you is... would you have a 10 or 12 yr old little girl fixed? Pretty much the same thing. The body needs the harmons to grow properly.

The vet... well it's easier on him to spay early  you are also paying him to do so. Most vets deal with a whole lot of unwanted puppies and usually advocate for early spay vs putting down lots of unwanted pups.

So guess you need to decide why you want to spay so young. Convenience for you? If you are concerned for your puppy you should wait until at least 18 months or whatever your contract states. If you used a good breeder they know what works for this breed, your vet (unless they also breed goldens) does not... he is speaking "in general" not breed specific.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

You asked...I wouldn't do it. In my contract early spay/neuter voided the contract with my puppy people. Other vets just might say something different from what you have been told.



Why not ask your breeder? Why not check with GRCA for info?


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

My vet was fine with delayed neuter. There is a lot of evidence that it is better to let them go through one heat. I don't think an oncologist would be an unbiased opinion. I also don't think breast cancer is particularly common in Goldens compared to some of the other cancers. My vet does want to neuter at 2 but I doubt if I will.


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## GoldenMom999 (Apr 14, 2017)

Do not spay now...my vet advised me to have all my girls owners wait until at least 18 months and boy owners two years.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

My breeder recommends 18-24 months of age before spay/neuter. If you're talking spay, I would not do it till 18 months minimum. Also check with your vet about an ovary sparring spay that ties off the ovaries and only removes the uterus. This keeps them intact basically with the hormones but make them sterile as far as reproducing, best of both worlds.


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## Jmcarp83 (May 4, 2018)

My contract states not before one heat and then schedule 3 months after first heat. 

My vet asked. I told her what contract stated and her response was, “Good.” I expected pushback. I received zero. She’s been very good about my approach to Stella’s healthcare. And the only thing the vet wanted to know was at what age her mom/grandma/sister went through their first heat.


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## TheLittleDuke (Nov 11, 2018)

I am sorry you are feeling this way. This topic 'spay/neuter' is always a sensitive one, and many vets have different opinions when it comes to it. 

As far as I know if you do spay at an early age (less than one year old) there are risks of growth and development problems and also the risk of hip dysplasia is increased. However, keep in mind that does not mean you dog will have these problems! Early spay does not give a life sentence.

And if you spay at an older age (more than one year old), perhaps there could be more benefits when it comes to growth and hip dysplasia. However, spaying at an older age does not mean your dog will be safe from these problems!

Over all, by doing the spay surgery at any age, your dog is at a greater risk of becoming overweight and developing urinary incontinence.

Lately it has been said that spaying increases the risk of osteosarcoma and hemangiosarcoma. However:

Genetics are important, yes. But diet, nutrition, environment, lifestyle etc, do play a great role, even in diseases like dysplasia and cancer. It is important for you to keep an eye on these things throughout your dog's life, spayed or not. As I said before, the spay surgery does not come with a life sentence.

And there's another important question there: do you pretend to do a spay surgery or an ovary sparing spay (OSS)? Each has advantages and disadvantages.

IMO the traditional spay surgery (ovariohysterectomy) is the better one.

Regarding pyometra - the spay surgery nearly eliminates the risk of pyometra - as there is still the risk of stump pyometra. Spayed female dogs can get stump pyometras if any ovarian tissue is left behind during their spay and the uterus is removed. Further, when a uterine stump develops pyometra, diagnosis is often delayed because it is initally assumed that there is no uterine tissue remaining after a spay.

So why do I still think the ovariohysterectomy is better? Most importantly, because the risks of your dog developing some types of cancer after this surgery are very low.

Meanwhile, by doing an ovary sparing spay, your dog will remain at risk for ovarian and mammarian cancers. And as she will still be stimulated by reproductive hormones, there is an even GREATER risk of developing an infection of any remaining uterine issue (stump pyometras). Even if the surgery is done correctly. Why choose this surgery and still be at risk of cancer and stump pyometra? For me it's just a no.

When an ovariohysterectomy is *properly done*, your dog will not suffer from pyometra. The risks of mammarian and ovarian cancers are pratically nonexistent.

As for my experience, I had a Poodle who suffered from mammary cancer. Unfortunately I couldn't spay her because of old age and after every heat cycle her condition would get worse.

You said you feel like no one is 100% right -- your words reminded me of my vet's words. He said to me once, "veterinary medicine is no mathematics". It isn't a exact science. However, I think you should talk with your vet -- she knows your dog better than anyone here on this forum. Ask her your questions.

And please, keep in mind that you are doing the best for your dog - I'm sure of it. Don't be afraid.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

Mentalities have changed a lot in the last 10 years or so, and the research today is pretty solid on the benefits of waiting until the dog has finished growing before altering it. I remember when I got my first Golden puppy, about 11 years ago, I decided not to spay her and I was in a very small minority who thought this was a good idea. The knee-jerk reaction of all pet owners was to spay/neuter early. However, my breeder told me about pups she had sold that had been spayed at 6 months of age, and had grown into poorly proportioned adults with longer legs that were more susceptible to joint injury. My contract back then required me to wait until my pup was at least 2 years old before spaying her. 



These days, many breeders ask their puppy buyers to wait until the dog is 18 months old before spaying. It's fairly common practice. Look on the web for texts by Dr. Chris Zink, who is a world-renowned expert on dog structure. She is very clear on the benefits of waiting to spay.


My current Golden is a male. He's almost three years old and he will not be neutered at all unless there's a good medical reason for doing so. I don't know of anyone in my circle of dog-sport friends who spayed or neutered their current dog before 18 months of age.


But you know, many dogs are still spayed or neutered early, and they go on to live long and happy lives. Don't beat yourself up for taking your vet's advice - although I might suggest that you look around for a vet with more up-to-date views. And if you do go ahead with the spay, remember that, while it may be routine surgery, it's also major surgery with a long recovery time. Your pup should be kept on full rest - no jumping onto or off furniture, no running, no stairs, etc. - for at least two weeks, and then on restricted exercise for at least another two weeks. Even if the incision looks healed, you can't see the internal stitches and it's important for them to heal properly before resuming normal life.



Best of luck, whatever you decide to do.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

OnceAGoldenAlwaysAGolden said:


> Ok so today we are spaying our 7 month old girl. Our breeder is not happy since she believes it is not good for her since her plates will not be together yet and it messes with growth. Our vet however disagrees with her saying that she sees alot of breast cancer in dogs who are not spayed. I even contacted a vet oncologist and a vet orthopedic surgeon and they both said we should do it now.
> I am so torn. We just want to do what is right for our girl but I feel like no one person is 100% right.


Breast cancer in dogs left intact through one season is only like 3% more risk- but breast cancer in canines is not terribly common. A much more common cancer is osteosarcoma and the odds for getting that are reduces pretty substantially by letting your bitch have a season. So. 
Your vet is your partner in care- your breeder will be affected if your dog dies young from osteo because it will appear that it is in the pedigree. Do your own research- and consider what I said - don't let her get pregnant of course- but realize your vet opinions are based often on the clients who cannot be counted on to keep the girlies safe from being bred.Also realize that her long bones will possibly not stop growing at an appropriate time- this is a feedback system- and if that happens, she will not be as attractive or as correct as the dog with the correct leg length. Plus the stress on her joints will not be as it should if the bones stopped growing when they should have.


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## eeerrrmmm1 (Apr 15, 2018)

The UC Davis study only makes it clear that it's better for male golden retrievers to be spayed late or not at all. 

The data on females was much grayer. A concern with mammary cancer (not super common and pretty treatable) wouldn't even be on my radar given that the study found four times the rate of hemangiosarcoma and an increased rate of mast cell tumors (both common and deadly cancers in GRs) for females that were spayed late (defined as after 12 months of age) as compared to females that were spayed early (before 12 months old) or never spayed at all. 

Hip dysplasia rates were not affected by spaying (early or late) for females in the study.

So, the UC Davis data suggests that unless you can commit to never spaying a female, you would be lowering her risk of hemangiosarcoma and mast cell tumors significantly by spaying early - before 12 months of age.

The study did find an increase in cranial cruciate ligament tears, basically the dog equivalent of an ACL tear, in females that were spayed early but that injury is so closely tied to body weight and condition that I would be much more concerned with keeping weight under control to prevent that injury.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

eeerrrmmm said:


> The UC Davis study only makes it clear that it's better for male golden retrievers to be spayed late or not at all.
> 
> The data on females was much grayer. A concern with mammary cancer (not super common and pretty treatable) wouldn't even be on my radar given that the study found four times the rate of hemangiosarcoma and an increased rate of mast cell tumors (both common and deadly cancers in GRs) for females that were spayed late (defined as after 12 months of age) as compared to females that were spayed early (before 12 months old) or never spayed at all.
> 
> ...


Hence the reason for doing an ovary sparring spay.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

eeerrrmmm said:


> The UC Davis study only makes it clear that it's better for male golden retrievers to be spayed late or not at all.
> 
> The data on females was much grayer. A concern with mammary cancer (not super common and pretty treatable) wouldn't even be on my radar given that the study found four times the rate of hemangiosarcoma and an increased rate of mast cell tumors (both common and deadly cancers in GRs) for females that were spayed late (defined as after 12 months of age) as compared to females that were spayed early (before 12 months old) or never spayed at all.
> 
> ...



Exactly right (thought there was a slight increase in HD for both spayed early and late over intact). It's a much less clear situation for females than males, and for most people, keeping an intact female is not an option. If you live in a city, are in contact with other dogs daily, if you have a dogwalker, if your dog goes to daycare, etc. etc. etc. You have to make the best decision you can for your situation with the information you have. 

Here is the link to the UC Davis study. And keep in mind, too, it is ONE study. More research needs to be done, and is being done, around spay/neuter. 

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0055937
You can click on the main graph for females on the first page.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

Well that's different if a person can't keep their dog away from males if left intact. Intact females only real worry is pyometra (infection of the uterus) since the uterus is removed, no issues with pyometra and the lesser worry of mammary tumors. So the only real issue you have to worry about is a small chance of mammary tumors


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## Barlosh (Sep 1, 2018)

I agree with your breeder on this as research has shown neutered/spayed dogs to be larger than intact due to growth plates not closing when they naturally would - this can lead to hip and elbow displaysia later on. I'm having an ovarian sparing spay on my girl as I feel the hormonal chain is vital (hence why women are given hormone resplacent after hysterectomy) and I'm in no rush to have the surgery either as it won't be done until she is past one year old.


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## debbie624 (Aug 10, 2018)

Hello. I am no expert by any means on this topic. My beloved Callie had CCL surgery in June and she was only 7 going on 8. We unfortunately lost her 3 weeks after surgery due to a possible blood clot. She was spayed at I believe 6 months or so as recommended by our vet. I am learning here that ligament injuries are more common in dogs who are spayed early. I am confused though bc I am looking at a Dichi litter, and the contract says the buyer has to spay at 7 months. This makes no sense to me based on what everyone else is saying. Feedback please?? Thank you.


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## TheLittleDuke (Nov 11, 2018)

debbie624 said:


> Hello. I am no expert by any means on this topic. My beloved Callie had CCL surgery in June and she was only 7 going on 8. We unfortunately lost her 3 weeks after surgery due to a possible blood clot. She was spayed at I believe 6 months or so as recommended by our vet. I am learning here that ligament injuries are more common in dogs who are spayed early. I am confused though bc I am looking at a Dichi litter, and the contract says the buyer has to spay at 7 months. This makes no sense to me based on what everyone else is saying. Feedback please?? Thank you.


Hello,

I am very sorry for your loss. I do not know the Dichi Goldens kennel personally, I am not even from the United States (I searched on Google and it seems they are based on Wisconsin). However, I can give you an advice. If you do not agree with the contract, don't buy the puppy. Because if you do, you will be legally obligated to follow what's written.

IMO 7 months is very early to do a spay. Most breeders have this clause in their contracts though. I know a not-so-reputable breeder in my country who offers the choice of taking the puppy already neutered/spayed home. At only two months. (!!!) Not only it is ridiculous but also a disrespectful thing (to the puppy and its health).

And there could be a few problems if you do spay this early (7 months).


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## JulesAK (Jun 6, 2010)

I appreciate all of the information on this subject. We will be waiting per our breeder contract and feel confident with the newest information that it is the right thing to do. Our boy that we adopoted from the shelter was neutered very early and he is a 110 lb AKC registered Lab that looks more like a Great Dane.

Jules


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Listen to your breeder. They tend to know a lot about the subject. My contract stated 18 months. I did spay her after that But I wish I hadn’t done it now. She had a beautiful, easy to maintain coat. Now it’s a horrible fuzzy mess all the time.


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## Constantlearner (Jul 18, 2018)

I too will try to wait 16 months for our male dog however I have heard that kennels won’t take him for boarding. Concerned about that but I won’t compromise my dog’s health and growth plates.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

Abeille said:


> Listen to your breeder. They tend to know a lot about the subject. My contract stated 18 months. I did spay her after that But I wish I hadn’t done it now. She had a beautiful, easy to maintain coat. Now it’s a horrible fuzzy mess all the time.


You really don't want to leave females intact as that will almost always lead to pyotemra which is an infection of the uterus. So either spay or an ovary sparring spay. Which is like leaning them intact without the risk if pyometra.


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## Lambeau0609 (Aug 3, 2015)

I had no problem finding kennels that would take a dog not neutered. They just won't give them play time with other dogs. I now prefer using rover.com for dog sitters and most don't mind a unneutered dog but prefer no unspayed females.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> You really don't want to leave females intact as that will almost always lead to pyotemra which is an infection of the uterus. So either spay or an ovary sparring spay. Which is like leaning them intact without the risk if pyometra.


I’m not sure about that. I would have to look into it. There’s lots of things vets say to try to get us to spay/neuter our dogs. What I do know is this. My girl deals with much longer grooming sessions....which she never cared for to begin with. (Not a girly girl I guess). She deals with mats if I miss a few days. I do tons of performance stuff with my dogs. I have to worry more about injuries for her now. I totally regret having her spayed. 

I’ve experienced extremely aggressive spay/neuter vets. They didn’t care about my contract or my future plans for my dog. Refused todo a microchip if I didn’t do what they wanted. I tend to do a lot more research now.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Lambeau0609 said:


> I had no problem finding kennels that would take a dog not neutered. They just won't give them play time with other dogs. I now prefer using rover.com for dog sitters and most don't mind a unneutered dog but prefer no unspayed females.


I don’t let mine play with strange dogs anyway. Only each other and with dogs we know.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

Abeille said:


> Maggie'sVoice said:
> 
> 
> > You really don't want to leave females intact as that will almost always lead to pyotemra which is an infection of the uterus. So either spay or an ovary sparring spay. Which is like leaning them intact without the risk if pyometra.
> ...


Well the spay coat I'm not sure about but with the ovary sparring spay you leave the hormones intact so not sure if the spay coat still becomes a thing. But, the ovary sparring procedure is not new, it's been around since the 70's. My vet never tells anytime they have to spay/neuter but explains the pros and cons. I've spoken to my very about the ovary sparring procedure not the other way around and have spoken to the University of Penn School of Veterinary Medicine. This is what I'll be doing for Maggie.


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## three retirees (Aug 31, 2018)

Hi I am an Anti-spay person. My Golden was spayed at 3 years old. She passed on July 6, 2018 of Hermagiosarcoma. She was 9 years and 3 months old. She was with us for 2 years 3 months and one week. We were her third owner. 

Will your Vet do the spay for free? If not, then the Vet will profit from the spay. 
Have you read the UC Davis vet school research regarding spay & Neutering? https://www.ucdavis.edu/news/golden-retriever-study-suggests-neutering-affects-dog-health/
Here is another article. https://muhub.campuslabs.com/engage/news/96273

If you decide to Neuter/spay some things to look into. If your dog develops Fatty Tumors on their back or on their back thighs/legs. Always Biopsy or surgically Remove the Tumor. Why? The fatty tumor on my Golden's rear thigh at age 7 developed into Hemangiosarcoma Tumor in the same location. The tumor was the size of a Grapefruit. It had metastasis to her brain and internal organs. She was our first dog. 

If you get your girl spayed, be aware there are additional health risks as well. You are trading one set of health risks for a different set of health risks. You must be vigilant to any change in your dogs health or any fatty tumors.

Me, myself. I will only get intact dogs. Our current female will stay intact. When she is in heat we will ALWAYS prevent her from mating.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

Actually after more thought and discussion with my vet again, it looks like I'll be leaving Maggie intact, at least for the foreseeable future. My vet sees very small instances of pyometra with intact females. We (my vet and I) were discussing last night there is still risks of pyometra if you miss ANY uterin tissue and still a small chance of infection if the uterine stump when leaving the ovaries. So the thought is why do that when if she may still develop pyometra later, she's got to do a second spay basically to remove the ovaries and any remaining tissue. So, I'm going to leave her intact, no issues keeping her from mating, and if she's good the no issues and if she develops an infection, we'll do the spay then. They are at risk only after a heat cycle for about 6 weeks. So you just have to be aware during those times.

My vet also was talking about Europe and over there they don't spay and the instances of pyometra is very low % wise. I had read somewhere that it was 1 in 4 would get pyometra, I was wrong and that is way high actually. My vet said in Europe it's well under 10%.


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## rockcp21 (Dec 29, 2011)

"Also realize that her long bones will possibly not stop growing at an appropriate time- this is a feedback system- and if that happens, she will not be as attractive or as correct as the dog with the correct leg length. Plus the stress on her joints will not be as it should if the bones stopped growing when they should have."
I absolutely agree with the above statement! 
My 18 month old female has had 2 heats so far, she is petite but within AKC standards. It is noticeable a month after heat that she has grown each time, & her coat changes to maturity. I'm sure had I sprayed her early, she wouldn't grow to her potential growth. 
As for daycares not allowing intact females to play? Is it the spayed females with the problems? Of course when in heat, the dog would need to be separated or stay home. My girl has been going since 11 weeks old to a weekly "play session" which has now made a " teenage play session at a supervised training school once a week. They love her, as she helps timid , fearful dogs out of their shell to play & socialize. It's an equal amount of early spayed/neutered dogs & intact dogs, which get along, some in small groups or all together, depending on the dog "energy" & personalities that day. When she's in heat, she does stays home for the 3 weeks. But wears her bloomers to our obedience class & we have no issues.
Will she be spayed? Unless she has a medical problem I wouldn't.


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## three retirees (Aug 31, 2018)

> if she develops an infection, we'll do the spay then



My girl (Eden) was spayed by her original AKC breeder of merit (who will not be named). She was bred, and they thought she had a litter. She had pyometra. Had they found it out earlier, she would have been treated with antibiotics. So spaying is NOT the only answer. If you believe your girl may be pregnant and you have kept her chaste, then take her to a Vet to check her out. Antibiotics can be used to treat pyometra if caught early enough.


Three retirees.


Our new Girl is Paige, she joined the Two retirees on August 10, 2018. She will be eight in February. She is a retired breeder's bitch from a AKC breeder in a different state.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

Nope, not the only answer. I never said it was. But once they develop pyometra, they are much more likely to have it again and the safer course of action long term is spay. The average person doesn't even know that can even happen or what to look for it, or when. Then the time they do it's usually a real issue.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> Well the spay coat I'm not sure about but with the ovary sparring spay you leave the hormones intact so not sure if the spay coat still becomes a thing. But, the ovary sparring procedure is not new, it's been around since the 70's. My vet never tells anytime they have to spay/neuter but explains the pros and cons. I've spoken to my very about the ovary sparring procedure not the other way around and have spoken to the University of Penn School of Veterinary Medicine. This is what I'll be doing for Maggie.


People are having a very hard time finding vets that will do this surgery. Not sure if the are not trained in it or what.


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## TheLittleDuke (Nov 11, 2018)

cubbysan said:


> People are having a very hard time finding vets that will do this surgery. Not sure if the are not trained in it or what.


IMO most vets prefer the traditional spay surgery (ovariohysterectomy) because the dog won't suffer from pyometra this way.

Meanwhile, in an ovary sparing spay, as the dog will still be stimulated by reproductive hormones, there is a greater risk of developing an infection of any remaining uterine issue, which is called stump pyometra. I've heard a vet say that most veterinarians don't have experience in removing the uterus this way. So, when this surgery is not properly done, the dog is still at risk. The owner who chooses the OSS must pick the surgeon wisely as diagnosis for stump pyometras is often delayed because it is assumed that there is no uterine tissue remaining after a spay. 

Furthermore, the dog is still at risk for mammarian and ovarian cancers too, and may exhibit symptoms of pseudopregnancy.

It is a tough decision to make.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> You really don't want to leave females intact as that will almost always lead to pyotemra which is an infection of the uterus. So either spay or an ovary sparring spay. Which is like leaning them intact without the risk if pyometra.



This is simply not true. I currently have 2 intact bitches, one of whom is over 10 and who has had surgical implants where they also examine the uterus while implanting the sperm. 



There are precautions that must be taken if you have an intact girl, sure. I do not let my girls swim while in season. They are kept away from other dogs (male & female) while in season; that includes training and show sites.They are watched for discharge, fevers and other indicators for 6-8 weeks after a season and/or while they are pregnant and nursing. 



OSS also does not completely eliminate the risk of pyometra -- even a traditional spay can result in 'stump' pyometra. 



It is a personal decision on how the owner feels best might lead to a healthy long-lived bitch - it is not black & white by any stretch of the imagination.


Could my girls get pyometra? Yes. But I feel their risks of the deadly cancers (joint problems etc) are far greater being spayed than intact.


The US is in the minority when it comes to routinely spaying and castrating their dogs & cats -- in fact, even with my childhood dogs it was not a routine to castrate unless and until there was a medical need. I can only recall 1 dog who needed to be castrated due to a prostrate issue and he was 15 at the time.


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## PattyMcN123! (Oct 15, 2017)

*Laproscopic Spay*

Piper had her first heat at 8 months old. At 10 months as breeder suggested we were to have her spayed. Unfortunately, she had trouble with the vets anesthesia protocol and stopped breathing and was not spayed but referred to the Angel Memorial Animal Hosp. She will be spayed on Dec. 4th and we were given the option of a laparoscopic spay with gastriplexy ( a securing of stomach to prevent twisting of stomach during possible bloat)or the traditional spay. Does anyone have any pros and cons of laparoscopic procedure over the traditional one?Thanks in advance


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## Cjm (Oct 26, 2018)

For what it's worth, 18 years ago, we spayed our female at 4 months. She was still going strong at 13 when we needed to put her down due to other skin issues. She didn't have any issues with ACL or her hips.


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## eeerrrmmm1 (Apr 15, 2018)

PattyMcN123! said:


> Piper had her first heat at 8 months old. At 10 months as breeder suggested we were to have her spayed. Unfortunately, she had trouble with the vets anesthesia protocol and stopped breathing and was not spayed but referred to the Angel Memorial Animal Hosp. She will be spayed on Dec. 4th and we were given the option of a laparoscopic spay with gastriplexy ( a securing of stomach to prevent twisting of stomach during possible bloat)or the traditional spay. Does anyone have any pros and cons of laparoscopic procedure over the traditional one?Thanks in advance


Oh, that's scary! Glad they were able to resuscitate her! In that situation I would definitely be going with whatever spay allowed for the most minimal of anesthesia protocols. In human medicine that is almost always laparoscopic procedures. I'm sure the anesthesia will be modified for your girl anyway given her history but I would ask the hospital if there is any difference in the amount or type of anesthesia given for one procedure vs the other. The rest of this post is just a copy & paste from an older post I made on a thread asking about traditional spay vs laparoscopic.

I choose a laparoscopic spay for several reasons - 1) there's a highly skilled vet in my state that has been doing them for years and does multiple every week, 2) the internal trauma is less because they are doing a tiny snip and cauterization with specialized tools. In a traditional spay, the vets hands are going in the abdominal cavity and pulling the ovarian ligament away from the body wall, then cut, then surgically remove the entire uterus. The chance for internal bleeding and accidental damage of the ureters (the tubes that bring urine from the kidneys to the bladder) are greater during a traditional spay. And 3) honestly, just think about human medicine. If a procedure can be done laparoscopically, they're going to do it laparoscopically. Less trauma, less chance for infections, faster recovery time.


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## eeerrrmmm1 (Apr 15, 2018)

Also, side note - regarding the traditional spay procedure I described the manipulation of the ovarian ligament (the proper name is the suspensory ligament) as "pulling" but a lot of veterinary medicine articles describe it as "tearing" or "breaking" it. I don't know about you but I'd take a clean snip from a tool any day over someone manually using their hands to tear my ligament. Definitely less internal trauma.


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## PattyMcN123! (Oct 15, 2017)

Thank you we are going with the laparoscopic procedure. They said it’s basically the same anesthesia time , and with that we can have the gastriplexy also. I’ll be glad when this is done....


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## hondoo (Feb 16, 2018)

PattyMcN123! said:


> Thank you we are going with the laparoscopic procedure. They said it’s basically the same anesthesia time , and with that we can have the gastriplexy also. I’ll be glad when this is done....



Funny.. I just emailed Angell asking if they do Laparoscopic Spaying. I have had great results with Angell with our last golden. How was the experience and who was the doctor?


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## Constantlearner (Jul 18, 2018)

Has anyone run into a problem boarding dogs that aren’t neutered? I took my dog to a nearby recommended doggy daycare and they have a rule against having any dog over 6 months that isn’t fixed. I know they stretch the rule to 7-8 months, but I’m not fixing my dog just to appease boarding rules, but I will need to board him at some point! Is this common?


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

Constantlearner said:


> Has anyone run into a problem boarding dogs that aren’t neutered? I took my dog to a nearby recommended doggy daycare and they have a rule against having any dog over 6 months that isn’t fixed. I know they stretch the rule to 7-8 months, but I’m not fixing my dog just to appease boarding rules, but I will need to board him at some point! Is this common?



You aren't likely going to find a boarding place to take intact dogs. Too much for them to control and likely won't have people capable from keeping accidental breedings from happening. Plus if a female started a cycle (before they started spotting) you or the boarding place woulsn't know it and would make an untenable situation for the males. Especially intact males would be virtually impossible to handle.


You should never spay/neuter your dog for something like boarding as you're likely not neutering because of health reasons. If you make that choice to leave your dog intact, know that boarding your dog is likely never going to happen.


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