# New to showing



## FosterGolden

Do you mean for conformation? 

You should talk to your breeder; they should want to mentor and guide you. 

Call around to trainers in your area for handling classes. 

If you want to do it for fun, just do UKC and IABCA. They are both laid back, because IMHO, their standards are really low and competition is light. AKC is very competitive. 

If you want to get your child or children involved, why not just do dog 4H?


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## Tagliarenicb

Thanks for your response! My breeder lives in MA and does not show dogs. She bought already championed dogs....I have reached out to a few handlers in my area, hoping to get responses.


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## LJack

Here are some thoughts. 

There are many organizations that you can choose to compete in. I'll list them from least prestigious to the most. 

The International Shows in the US- 
The pros:


Very forgiving of new handlers 
Individual critiques 
It is easier to speak to the judge
Winning a BIS or the Grand Seiger is a worthy accomplishment since top rare. Reeds that can't show elsewhere are common at that level


The cons:

Though advertised as European style, the really are not since they do not use the CAC or CACIB format
They alow potentially every dog competing to earn a "Championship" in one day
They are not competitive 
Even dogs of poor quality can earn them as long as they don't have a DQ
Very little value to those in the fancy as it is know as a pay for title arrangement

UKC
The pros:

It is a competitive title where only one or two dogs (a bitch and a dog) will potentially walk away with a competition win
Show atmosphere is more laid back
The organization is family focused and offers a wider range of ages for juniors
Pro handlers are uncommon because they would have to own the dog they show
Grooming products are illegal so the grooming is less demanding

The cons:

The judges judge all breeds which means sometimes they are not well versed in Golden breed traits
Shows last all day and it is hard to figure out when you will show
Quality of competition can vary widely. In some parts of the country AKC top 20 dogs compete in others you may be the only Golden entered
Not as respected or prestigious as the AKC or American Championship

AKC
The pros: 

Considered the most prestigious title in North America
The most difficult to earn 
Is the title most directly comparative to Championships earned in Europe 
To serious breeders is the only title thought of when the word Champion is used (all others should be specified suck as UKC Champion)

The cons:

Professional handlers are common 
Is expensive and time consuming 
Most handlers will estimate 1000 per point in expenses on a well made dog. That translates to $15,000. 
It is not forgiving of inexperienced handlers, untrained dogs or dogs not in show condition
If the case of people like us with European lines, AKC is challenging for pale gold dogs and the European style is not commonly seen so picking judges is a good skill to have

Other options

The GRCA CCA- Most breeders will put more stock in the CCA than the pay for title International shows. You have to wait until they are 18 months old. It is very valuable as you get written and scored critiques from three golden retriever breed experts.

The Canadian Kennel Club Championship 

You're actually pretty close to Canada. You may want to consider heading north of the border to compete in that kennel club. Their rings include dogs of European style and lighter color. You'll likely find more success up there. Also there is the bonus of meeting other serious breeders of the European style and potentially finding high quality studs. The Canadian championship is also much more well respected than the US earned international or the UKC. 


No matter which of the competitive organizations you choose to go with you UKC, CKC or AKC you need to know showing is not for the faint of heart. It is hard to love a dog as a pet and a step back to see not only their strengths but their weaknesses. Successful showing is going to be about presenting your dog in a way that capitalizes on their strengths as well as not drawing attention to their weaknesses. You also have to realize your dog will not win every day, for some that becomes no fun. 

I think asking a professional handler for an a valuation is a great idea. You may need to pay for that but it would be an excellent tool to decide if you were dogs would be successful in AKC shows. If you are going to ask for an evaluation you must be open to the information you receive which In the case of an honest evaluation will not all be positive.

If you are going to attempt showing for yourself, look in your area for conformation handling classes. Some handlers will offer group classes or individual lessons depending on your need. 

Having European-style dogs like we do it is not easy to show in AKC. There have been a couple of imports from Europe that have achieved the AKC championship so it certainly is possible. I am hoping my young girl will become another and likely the first Bitch in a long time. I would challenge you to do better than most of the "English cream/white dog" breeders. Don't just breed to make cute light colored puppies for profit. Don't just go to the International shows and rest you pursuit of quality on a pay for title that any Golden could get. Breed to make your next competitive champion, maybe even an AKC Champion.

Good luck


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## K9-Design

Great post LJack if that doesn't talk them out of it nothing will!! HAHAHA
just kidding, good summary


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## Megora

Tagliarenicb said:


> Hello all!
> 
> I would love to show my two goldens! I think it would be wonderful for my kids to get involved in and a fun family event! I am so new this and am looking for all advice, training tips, anything you can offer me! I live in Washington state. I talked with a few people that show dogs and they have told me to go with UKC because they are much more kind and easy going? What are your thoughts? My oldest turn a year this month and my younger is 5 months old(I know he has to at least be 6 months?) Thank you so much in advance!


You may have been told to go with UKC because you probably would have a really tough time showing a very light dog in the AKC. And that gets tougher if the dog was not bred for show.* 

Tough time primarily just means getting overlooked by the judges. 

You do have some who show AKC who are not thoughtful or kind around newbies. But a lot of people are very nice. Depends.

It gets tougher when you have kids handling the dogs. The judges and other exhibitors will be very kind and nice, esp to kids. But there's not a lot of owner handlers showing goldens out there, and even fewer are very green kids who will naturally make mistakes while learning how to handle and ring routine. 

UKC is a great place to start if you are thinking of having the kids handle the dogs. Other breeds... not so much goldens... I've seen entries where all the dogs are handled by members of the same family. The kids make mistakes left and right, but it's not held against the dog. 

Goldens are a breed that needs to be groomed. You shouldn't bring an unbathed dog to a show. The feet, ears, and tail do need to be neatened up/trimmed properly. This is not something that can be done at a commercial groomer. 

The difference between AKC and UKC as far as grooming isn't technically how the dogs are trimmed. It's more about day of show stuff that would be done in AKC. A lot of UKC shows out there do not have provide electricity for grooming. People groom their dogs at home and mainly set up tables to brush and fluff their dogs by hand before going into the ring. AKC - with goldens, they do generally get a full bath and blow dry an hour or so before showing. 

*Not saying your dogs are too light or not show quality... I'm not going to say one thing or the other based on the pictures. Dogs look different in person and neither dog is not set up properly to judge whether he's show quality or not.


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## Arnispinay

My son and I are newbies showing our 5.5 month golden puppy through AKC. So far he has completed in a 4-6 month puppy show and a match. Both he placed 2nd and everyone was so nice to him. I also showed him at the match but I was the only one in my class so I got a 1st place ribbon.. lol. Matches are more laid back but we didn't get any feedback for the judges so we looked at it like practice. We are currently taking 2 handling classes. It's been great so far.

As for grooming, we found a groomer who can specifally groom Golden show dogs through our handling class. So Duke gets groomed the day before the show. 

Filling out the entry forms for the show is really confusing. In fact I have to call the super intendant for the Cherry Blossom show. There is an ameuter owner handled class that I didn't know about.

Overall the shows are pricey but I see it as family bonding and training for both my puppy and my son who is 10. I would love for Duke to win points but it's not the end of the world if he never does. My kids want to also get into agility, dock diving, obedience, nosework, and whatever else looks fun.

Good luck!


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## Tagliarenicb

Thank you for writing back to me! We met with a professional handler who told me that we would have to look at the shows and look for who is judging because there a quite a few who won't even take the time to even consider a golden so light in color, which is a shame. They looked over our dogs and said that they both are great and would definitely have a chance, my male more so because he has a blockier head that my girl. So you are right that the light color is very hard to show in AKC


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## Tagliarenicb

Thank you! That is encouraging to hear. Best of luck to you guys! Sounds like a great time for mom and son!


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## GOLDENinspired

I too am considering confirmation and will choose a breeder based on whether or not I Schoenberg. I have a couple of questions. How and when is one awarded points? What costs are entailed? Any recommended good reads to get started? Thank you all of this information is so helpful.


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## GOLDENinspired

What is the typical price for a show?


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## Megora

Laura,

Are there any good clubs in your area? Like Sandlapper?

The best way to get into the middle of things is make connections with breeders who show. Some are very protective of their pups primarily because you DO have people who "think" they want to show and do everything, but decide it's not for them after 3-5 shows. Showing in conformation can be really tough because in many places you have a lot of competition that is prepared and shown by pros. Then also, if you are in a certain area - you may have a lot of solid competition coming into town from other places who are known to the judges. 

Golden Retrievers are kinda seen as a "political" breed, because it is just really tough getting a judge's eye when you are in a ring with 10 other dogs, many of whom are handled by friends of the judge. Or people who are friends with the judge on facebook or other places. 

To get a Championship on your golden retriever in AKC, you need to get 15 points. And at least 6 of those points need to come from Majors.

Every year, AKC releases a point schedule for all the different divisions (certain states). That point schedules basically tells you how many Class dogs need to be entered in a show that you win in order for you to get single points, two point wins, or majors (3 or more points per win). 

A class dog is any dog entered in regular classes who is not yet a Champion. These are the dogs entering and competing for the regular points. 

Specials are Champion dogs who are entered and compete for Best in Breed. Basically if you watch Westminster on TV - the dogs competing in Best of Group (ie sporting group for Goldens) are all the dogs who won Best in Breed. 

Westminster literally just shows the end or climax of what occurs at a dog show. The stuff you don't see on TV is all of the different breeds competing for best in breed. And that hours and hours of showing. 

In North Carolina, you need to minimally have 2 dogs or 3 bitches entered in regular classes, in order to get single points. Two points are 8 dogs or 12 bitches entered. A major (3 points), you need to beat 14 dogs or 20 bitches. 

Dogs and Bitches always show separately except for Best of Breed.

Dogs show first.

So regular classes might be 6-9 month boy puppies, American Bred, and Open. <= There's more classes than that, I'm just listing a couple different ones...

A regular class consists of everyone entering the ring in order of armband and setting up for the judge to have his first look at all the dogs in the class. Everyone goes around the ring as a group, following directions from the judge. And the first dog sets up for his individual exam with the judge. 

Individual exams are the judge looking at the entire dog from the middle of the ring, coming up and checking the dogs expression and front. Checking teeth and ear length. And then going over the dog, checking his front, his back, depth of chest, how the elbows are tucked in (or not), checking the ribs and tuck up, checking the croup and hips, tail set, and then usually checking the dog's gonads to make sure everything is there. They are supposed to go over the whole dog. And you see some judges zeroing in on areas that they are picky about. Toplines and fronts are a big deal for a lot of judges... heads for others. Movement for others.

The handler and dog then do a gaiting pattern on the direction of the judge. This is generally a simple down and back and you are just following the mat to the opposite end of the ring and going back up to the judge.

The judge is supposed to be checking a number of things, including making sure your dog can actually trot, he's checking what your dog's rear legs look like when you are trotting away, and what your dog's front end looks like when coming back. I believe they are also supposed to be checking the dog's head position, back, and tail position when being gaited. 

Dogs who are "wide in front" and carry their tails over their backs are less likely to impress the judge (because these are faults) than dogs who have correct front movement and tail carriage.

After the down and back, the judge sends the handler and dog around the ring to the back of the line and repeats the individual exam and pattern with the next dog... until all the dogs have had their turn and are set up for the judge to view as a group again.

The judge may sort the dogs out according to his placement choices then or he may send them around as a group again (judges checking movement and overalls will do this a lot). He then picks his placements 1-4 and hands ribbons out. Anyone who did not place tries to get out of the ring ASAP while the ribbons are handed out. If you placed, you show your armband to the steward and take the ribbon from the judge + thank him and scoot out of the ring.

This is repeated for ALL the dog classes. There may be a bunch or may only be 2-3 different classes. After this is done, the winners are all brought back in to compete for Winners Dog.

Whoever got second place in their regular classes needs to stick around and keep an eye on what happens in Winners. Because if the first place dog in a class wins in the Winners Class, the second place winner can go back in and compete for Reserve in the Winners Class.

The Reserve Winners placement is meaningless UNLESS there is a paperwork or technical issue with the Winners Dog.

For example - if you competed in the 6-9 month puppies class and you dog won that class and won in the Winners class.... everything is OK until the paperwork is sorted out and it's discovered that your dog is 9 months old. If your dog is actually 9 months old, he should not have competed in the 6-9 month class. The 6-9 month class is literally dogs who are 6 months old and a day younger than their 9 month birthday. A handler or owner not paying attention when filling out paperwork and entering a class risks losing hard won points if they made an entry mistake.

Regardless if the WD had some kind of paperwork error occur, the points are then literally handed to the Reserve winner.

So anyway, you need to win your individual class (so example, 6-9 month puppies) in order to be able to go back in for the Winners Dog class. All class winners go back in for Winners Dog competition.

The judge will then select Winners Dog (WD) and Reserve. 

And then everything is started over again with the bitches and their regular classes. 

After the Winners Bitch (WB) competition, the two winners (Winners Dog and Winners Bitch) stand by and wait for the Specials (champion dogs) to go in to the ring first and then you have the Winners Dog and Winners Bitch going in at the tail end. They are all competing for Best in Breed. 

Sometimes you have judges who do not want to give the BOB to a class dog... but those class dogs (WD and WB) still go out there to compete for Best of Winners. 

If there was a major in bitches, but not in dogs... and the Winners Dog gets Best of Winners, the points cross over and the Winners Dog gets credit for a major. 

Once a dog gets Best in Breed - they get to go into the group. And that is a huge amount of fun. It's usually the biggest ring and everyone is excited as they go in. There is no particular order for going in... you just find dogs of the same size that move as fast (or as slow) as your dog and try to go in behind them. When I've gone into group... I usually go in behind the setters and before the labs. 

Now, there have been other issues or complications in the breed - primarily it's easy for some dogs to quickly get all their single or two point wins... but as soon as they have gotten 9-10 points on a dog (in other words singled out), the owners/handlers need to start hunting for majors to enter. If they enter a show and it either wasn't major (not enough class dogs entered) or if the major broke (enough class dogs entered, but they were absent at the show), the owner/handler is basically stuck having entered a show that politically they are not permitted to compete in. Some people have real hissy fits when they are hunting for single points and have to compete against dogs who are singled out.

Right now around my area.... everyone is hunting for majors but there really aren't too many opportunities. For whatever reason. If entry numbers are down for a number of years, in theory AKC will revise the point schedule so you don't need as many class dogs to get a major.

But AKC isn't really that eager to downsize that point schedule too much or too often for big breeds like Golden Retrievers.

Other breeds are much easier for new owners because you don't need to beat as many dogs for major points, or even 2 point wins. 

A good example, Brittanies in North Carolina - you only need to beat 4 dogs in order to get a major. You might be hunting around more to find enough competition in these other breeds, but you don't have to compete again really big classes of dogs in order to win your two majors and finish a dog. 

The benefit of having an easier point schedule for your breed (ie Brittany or Flat Coated Retrievers, etc), is it brings the bar a little lower for owner handlers. Particularly those who are doing everything else, including field, obedience, etc. A lot of people who compete with their dogs in other sports, don't particularly like handing their dogs off with handlers to live with handlers for months on end. 

Typical cost for entries = about $30. 

Professional handlers may charge something like $100 to handle your dog in the ring + other fees based on how well they do out there. 

Because golden retrievers are a coated breed and very competitive breed, you cannot just show up at a show and go right into the ring.

A owner handler starting from scratch needs to go shopping for a lot of supplies. You are looking at spending anywhere between $500 to $1000 on grooming and set up supplies. The good news is once you have all the stuff you need, you are not ever spending that money again. Or not too often (stuff sometimes needs replacement every few years and/or some supplies you go through a lot faster). Other good thing is you never spend a single dollar at a pet groomer. In most cases, once you learn how to show groom a golden retriever and you have all the stuff you need.... your dog will look a lot better than most dogs whose owners spent $60 at the pet groomer (those people who clip where they shouldn't and leave what they should clip). 

On a show day, the dogs are brought to the show about 1-2 hours before their ring time. They are then bathed (full bath or spritzed completely wet) and blown dry... and prepped for showing.

The days before a show day, the dogs are fully groomed (ears, feet, tail trimmed properly for showing). Nails need to be very short. Teeth need to be clean. 

Touchups (if any) are done on the grooming table at the show before heading over to the ring. The idea is to have the dog look clean, polished, and as perfect as possible before entering the ring. Some flips, waves, etc are OK. But you do your best to have your dog looking his best.

The other big hoop to jump in this breed - isn't just buying all the supplies you need. It's learning how to use them. And this part (learning to groom your dogs, etc) can take a few years. And it does require having a hands on mentor helping you, guiding you, teaching you.

And it also does require being in an area where breed clubs sometimes offer show grooming seminars. IE, here in Michigan there is a show grooming seminar being offered next month and anyone can send in forms and attend with their dogs (who they want to show) and/or attend just watch and learn. 

^^^^ All this is probably as clear as mud and kinda intimidating for anyone who isn't hooked. 

And truly, there are people who enter 5 shows without any wins... and either decide to hand the leash off to somebody else, or they decide conformation is too "political" and find something else to do with their dogs.

If you can get through the first year of showing and get 1-2 points on your own, you do get hooked pretty good. There's a rush that comes from competing in a tough breed... other stuff that does go through your head is that even if you don't get a CH on your first dog to try it with, it will be a lot easier with the next dog.


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## Prism Goldens

Points- they are determined by the area the show is in. AKC has regional point schedules. NC is in Division 3- it takes 2 dogs or 3 bitches for 1 point, and the max you can earn at one show is a 5 point major. Majors are 3,4,or 5 points. 
To earn a CH you need at least 2 major wins, and 15 total points. 
One dog and one bitch will earn points any given show day.
http://www.akc.org/events/conformation-dog-shows/point-schedule/

UkC works differently. It's much easier. 
Show entries run around $25-30 per day. 
Most shows are 2 days but you might find a cluster that is up to 11 days (the biggest one I can think of).


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## Megora

@Prism Goldens - I actually did start out planning to simply say it costs $30 to enter. LOL. I do get carried away.


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## GOLDENinspired

Many thanks for such thorough responses! I have had a breeder discuss co-ownership with me as we don't want our dog to spend all this time with a handler. That said, we don't expect to be traveling for months on end either. We see competing as more of a regional hobby and if we have to travel far distances, once, maybe twice a year. My husband and I work full time. 

Perhaps our vision is unrealistic? It seems a little scarey to co-own too.

Any words of wisdom?


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## Prism Goldens

depends- think your vision would be easier to see in fruition if you have a dog not a bitch.
And handling takes skill/art to do well...but showing is fun, so maybe this is your learning on dog...


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## cubbysan

I still say I am new to the sport, even though my daughter and I have been doing it for over two years now - still learning a lot!

I have heard many people say, especially recently that golden retrievers are the hardest breed to get a Championship on. One thing about this sport is that it is probably the only sport that amateur people and children, compete against professionals and people with over 30 years experience. I myself tried to handle, and found out I just could not do it - I think of it as trying to dance, either you can or you can't, and then after that you learn the steps and fine turn it. You have to be in coordination with your dog and almost invisible to make your dog shine. Some judges can get past the handler, others cannot. My daughter shows our dogs now.

You also need a dog that wants to show. My first show golden, hates the ring and hates the blow dryer. She barked the whole time she was in the ring when she was not moving, so since then we have just started her in agility, and she LOVES it.

My second show dog is a style that not all judges like. He is very light and has English lines in him. I have to pick and choose which judges to go to, usually trying to hit the specialties rather than the all breed shows, and this is where you end up travelling far from home. So far I have traveled as far as almost 6 hours each way - I have considered 10 - 12 for the right group of judges. Now the price of a hotel room, gas and meals come into play - but these weekends become a great way to get away from my regular life and just talk and think dogs the whole weekend. We are still working on points with this dog, we have only been showing him for less than a year, and he hasn't been shown in about 5 months because of the flu outbreak and because I was told by some breeders of his line that the last two cluster of shows were too political and not to waste my money.

My best advice is to try to find a breeder that will mentor you. Mine only lives 10 minutes from my house and she and a co-breeder of hers have spent many hours and hours training and teaching my daughter and I grooming and handling. The first six months, I was afraid to go to a show by myself, now I will enter a show if I don't know of anybody going - when I get there, I find I do now know people from other parts of the area.

Plan on spending about $1,000 on start up costs with grooming, show equipment and supplies and constantly adding to it from there. Plan on bathing and grooming your golden at least once a week, this where a very good dog dryer is important. Plan on going to handling classes if you have any nearby. It can all be overwhelming the first few months, but after that it does become quite enjoyable. Plan on going into the ring and knowing at times the best dog might not always win.


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## cubbysan

I work full time and my daughter is now in high school. We only show on weekends, occasionally taking a Friday as a travel day - I allow her two to three days a year to take out of school for dog shows or helping my breeder deliver puppies. It does mean that I cannot show when the clusters are Wed to Sun the full cluster, but I probably would have been able to afford a long cluster like that anyhow, between hotel and entry fees.

Also some venues you need to rent grooming space with electricity which runs about $35 - we have one venue here that rents the space for about $40 then charges another $60 for the electricity, but that is the only place I have been to that does that, not sure how common that is.


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## Goldens&Friesians

I'm mostly just jumping in here to follow this thread so I can find it later. I'd love to learn how to handle and show my own dog someday. I know basics from my years of junior handling in 4-H, but that's been awhile ago. My current girl, April, I originally wanted to show, but her breeder lived way to far to help; and in my ignorance I focused on obedience first (getting her CD title) than I did all the clearances, and then she got pyometra a little over 2 yrs old and had to spay her. In hind sight, I wish I would've shown her in puppy classes. Right now, it is very impractical for me to show as I have a son who just turned 1 and my hubby and I would like to have at least one more baby. So maybe in the future when we're done having kids and they are older, I can dust of this ambition! I'm practicing grooming on my girl, but don't have anyone to critique it so I use photos of CH dogs and compare. (I'm a professional pet groomer, but know nothing about show grooming). Also, there are literally NO handling classes in my area, but there is a lady who shows and breeds Portuguese Water Dogs who is willing to teach people. Is it ok to take handling classes from someone who shows a different breed? Thinking maybe I could start learning to handle on my current girl that way I'd be more prepared when I am actually ready to get into showing.


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## Ljilly28

One really important thing is to right away study the breed standard for goldens, join the Golden Retriever Club Of America and subscribe to the magazine so your eye can see many dogs, buy the Blue Book from the GRCA store, and give yourself homework to learn what angles are correct in front and rear, what a long v short-coupled body looks like, what a good rib spring is etc. You need to know what you have on your lead, to certain where to show. It is a challenge by choice thing- some people are happy going to UKC and find it rewarding and it suits their dogs. Other people really get the fever to compete in AKC- but then you need a dog who makes it fun and rewarding. One handler taught me early on that if a dog has more than 3 real faults - like a high tail, a lack of pigment, and slab sided, it is never going to be fun in AKC and if that dog also has tremendous virtues, you will get stuck in the grey area in which he is too nice to quit but has too many faults to finish at reasonable cost. To win in AKC , you really need to be fired up to learn and persevere, like you are running a marathon. I loved division one sports when I was young and in shape, and now I love AKC, but I do ridiculous things to succeed, such as driving from Maine to Lexington KY and back with no sleep etc and today I got up and worked with my new 9 week old puppy at 3:45 am( it is Sunday). Not everyone has to do dumb stuff like that, but AKC really is a sporting event in which you need to dig down deep bc some percentage of your competition will always be awesome, deserving, and hardworking. You'll never be really the one who DESERVES to win- so many nice goldens and good competitors out there.


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## Goldens&Friesians

Ljilly28 said:


> One really important thing is to right away study the breed standard for goldens, join the Golden Retriever Club Of America and subscribe to the magazine so your eye can see many dogs, buy the Blue Book from the GRCA store, and give yourself homework to learn what angles are correct in front and rear, what a long v short-coupled body looks like, what a good rib spring is etc. You need to know what you have on your lead, to certain where to show. It is a challenge by choice thing- some people are happy going to UKC and find it rewarding and it suits their dogs. Other people really get the fever to compete in AKC- but then you need a dog who makes it fun and rewarding. One handler taught me early on that if a dog has more than 3 real faults - like a high tail, a lack of pigment, and slab sided, it is never going to be fun in AKC and if that dog also has tremendous virtues, you will get stuck in the grey area in which he is too nice to quit but has too many faults to finish at reasonable cost. To win in AKC , you really need to be fired up to learn and persevere, like you are running a marathon. I loved division one sports when I was young and in shape, and now I love AKC, but I do ridiculous things to succeed, such as driving from Maine to Lexington KY and back with no sleep etc and today I got up and worked with my new 9 week old puppy at 3:45 am( it is Sunday). Not everyone has to do dumb stuff like that, but AKC really is a sporting event in which you need to dig down deep bc some percentage of your competition will always be awesome, deserving, and hardworking. You'll never be really the one who DESERVES to win- so many nice goldens and good competitors out there.


Even though I'm not experienced at all, I feel like I have a good eye for a nice structure in a dog; and I would hate to be an AKC judge-they all look so good at the shows I've attended-how would you pick?! Lol!


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## Megora

Goldens&Friesians said:


> Right now, it is very impractical for me to show as I have a son who just turned 1 and my hubby and I would like to have at least one more baby. So maybe in the future when we're done having kids and they are older, I can dust of this ambition! I'm practicing grooming on my girl, but don't have anyone to critique it so I use photos of CH dogs and compare. (I'm a professional pet groomer, but know nothing about show grooming). Also, there are literally NO handling classes in my area, but there is a lady who shows and breeds Portuguese Water Dogs who is willing to teach people. Is it ok to take handling classes from someone who shows a different breed? Thinking maybe I could start learning to handle on my current girl that way I'd be more prepared when I am actually ready to get into showing.


I know at least one professional handler whose mom and kids come with to dog shows. And then we just got a collie pup from a pro handler who has two very young kids. So I do think that kids are not a problem when you want to get out and do a few dog shows... and those are pro handlers and doing a LOT more than just somebody showing their own dog. 

If there are any golden retriever breeders who handle their own dogs or at least are involved enough, they should be able to help you out. Especially if you do want to get your feet wet. That's something you want to do - especially when it comes to learning how to show groom. Because you already are a groomer, odds are you have all the right equipment already. 

Taking a few handling classes will help. Most handling classes are done with people of other breeds. The ring routines are the same though, so you will learn from them. 

I posted on facebook about this, but I wish people would not feel discouraged about showing their own dogs if they have full registration and their dogs are decent enough. The progression of attitudes in the sport with people telling others not to even bother unless they have approved puppies from approved breeders and so on... I do think it does a lot to create negative feelings in the breed, class divisions, and so on. And it's annoying. And it's not helpful to supporting the breed. Especially when it concerns people who _are _breeders and _are _breeding their dogs. 

Among else, some of the biggest names in the breed right now likely started out by showing what they had. Which we must assume was breed standard and breed type. And learning more and more about what they wanted in the next dog and understand what all needs to be there (ie learning style preferences, etc). Sometimes you learn by getting involved.

I do think that if anyone breeds dogs - they need to be involved with conformation. As a way of showing that YES they do breed dogs who are good quality and meet the standard.

Then people who life revolves around their dogs and they kinda want to get in deeper than they are... if they have nice dogs and the breeders are supportive, they should feel encouraged to get their feet wet and start learning all the how to's and what's. 

It's something I wish friends in obedience would do. Among else, it would stop the progression away from breed standard qualities in dogs. Breed standard is overall look and size, structure, and temperament.

I just did a specialty this past weekend. And this specialty is one of the favorites for a lot of obedience people too. There was a couple of us going from the conformation barn to the obedience barn (they were next to each other) with our dogs. Really HAPPY thing was for the first time the club had a warm up ring. Which I wish ALL obedience clubs would do! <= I would have been tickled pink and very happy to help if there had been any other obedience people at least showing their dogs in the conformation side too. Because some people DO have nice dogs. They aren't all that bad. But these people do feel discouraged if their dogs don't have the "coats" that they somehow think they should have. More so, I do think people just are made to feel unwelcome by the conformation side. And that shouldn't happen.


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## Anele

Megora said:


> I wish people would not feel discouraged about showing their own dogs if they have full registration and their dogs are decent enough. The progression of attitudes in the sport with people telling others not to even bother unless they have approved puppies from approved breeders and so on... I do think it does a lot to create negative feelings in the breed, class divisions, and so on. And it's annoying. And it's not helpful to supporting the breed. Especially when it concerns people who _are _breeders and _are _breeding their dogs.
> 
> Among else, some of the biggest names in the breed right now likely started out by showing what they had. Which we must assume was breed standard and breed type. And learning more and more about what they wanted in the next dog and understand what all needs to be there (ie learning style preferences, etc). Sometimes you learn by getting involved.


I agree with you 1000%. From my inexperienced POV, it seems we need MORE dogs in the ring and MORE dogs in breeding programs. If a dog is structurally/mentally/overall sound/would earn a CCA, then I would hope owners would get out there with their dogs. We need a bigger gene pool-- continually narrowing is doing us no favors.

Also, as a side note, my daughter has learned far more about handling, herself, dogs in general and our dog in particular by actually being out in the ring. While her handling classes and instructor are fantastic, she says she learns far actually participating in shows. And, if nothing else, the classes and show experience are fantastic ways to socialize a dog.

I'd say the hardest part is the money. It adds up fast. While each entry is $30, you might do 2 shows in one weekend... or if you have a child, you are also paying a fee for Jr Handling which is (sadly) often not discounted.


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## cubbysan

Anele said:


> I agree with you 1000%. From my inexperienced POV, it seems we need MORE dogs in the ring and MORE dogs in breeding programs. If a dog is structurally/mentally/overall sound/would earn a CCA, then I would hope owners would get out there with their dogs. We need a bigger gene pool-- continually narrowing is doing us no favors.
> 
> Also, as a side note, my daughter has learned far more about handling, herself, dogs in general and our dog in particular by actually being out in the ring. While her handling classes and instructor are fantastic, she says she learns far actually participating in shows. And, if nothing else, the classes and show experience are fantastic ways to socialize a dog.
> 
> I'd say the hardest part is the money. It adds up fast. While each entry is $30, you might do 2 shows in one weekend... or if you have a child, you are also paying a fee for Jr Handling which is (sadly) often not discounted.


I find people that showed horses have a really easy time transitioning to the dog breed ring.

As for Junior Handling, we have lost many entries because the time was the same time as the goldens, and we chose the breed ring instead. Not sure what we are going to do in the future.


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## Anele

cubbysan said:


> As for Junior Handling, we have lost many entries because the time was the same time as the goldens, and we chose the breed ring instead. Not sure what we are going to do in the future.


Us, too. We now only enter if the fee is greatly reduced or discounted.


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## LJack

Tagliarenicb said:


> My oldest turn a year this month and my younger is 5 months old(I know he has to at least be 6 months?) Thank you so much in advance!


Sad to find out today that just 4 months after making this post this breeder has bred her very young boy and girl together. :frown2:

I guess showing was just a passing fancy and the draw of producing puppies for profit was more important than proving their dogs in competition or having full health certifications. 

So sad as we need more good breeders who get full health certifications and are actively competing with their dogs.


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## forgop

Laura Hudson Hamre said:


> Many thanks for such thorough responses! I have had a breeder discuss co-ownership with me as we don't want our dog to spend all this time with a handler. That said, we don't expect to be traveling for months on end either. We see competing as more of a regional hobby and if we have to travel far distances, once, maybe twice a year. My husband and I work full time.
> 
> Perhaps our vision is unrealistic? It seems a little scarey to co-own too.
> 
> Any words of wisdom?


If it's the same breeder I referred you to, really the terms amount to you have physical possession and responsible for all expenses. Additionally, no breeding the dog until the dog earns AKC championship and after 2 years of age with all health clearances and clearing the breeding with her. Her primary concern will be checking the clearances of the bitch and knowing the breeder is in good standing with the AKC or possible local golden retriever clubs. I don't think it's an unreasonable request. I co-own a dog and now a puppy bitch from the same litter she has a show boy.


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## Prism Goldens

LJack said:


> Sad to find out today that just 4 months after making this post this breeder has bred her very young boy and girl together. :frown2:
> 
> I guess showing was just a passing fancy and the draw of producing puppies for profit was more important than proving their dogs in competition or having full health certifications.
> 
> So sad as we need more good breeders who get full health certifications and are actively competing with their dogs.


For every success, we have ten complete failures...
you are right- this is just sad.


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## Goldens&Friesians

@Megora: I have the utmost respect for moms who work and raise kids and even more respect for single moms who work one or more jobs raising kids because I quit work when my son was born and have no idea how I would work AND raise a kid. I just can't see myself showing a dog and raising kids-at least not while they are very young. I'm actually hoping my kids will inherit some of my animal love and want to show with me. But even then, it would be limited showing and no Sunday shows. If I'm really going to get into showing, it would have to wait til the kids were at least in high school and could take care of themselves if I'm gone or whatever.
@cubbysan: That's good to know! I used to show my horses in 4-H. I still show occasionally in small local shows.
@LJack: Its always so disheartening to hear things like that because that's how most people are. Then I get discouraged because I tried to do it all right-got an obedience title, then found a good breeder mentor who helped me find places to get the 4 clearances, but then my dog pyo'd and had to be spayed before I could do anything else.  I try to look at it as a learning opportunity because I certainly know more now after going through all the steps, and there are things I'd do differently (such as starting conformation in the puppy classes rather than waiting for clearances to be passed and finding a breeder mentor earlier in the game so I don't make mistakes like that, lol).


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## Anele

Goldens&Friesians said:


> @Megora: I have the utmost respect for moms who work and raise kids and even more respect for single moms who work one or more jobs raising kids because I quit work when my son was born and have no idea how I would work AND raise a kid. I just can't see myself showing a dog and raising kids-at least not while they are very young. I'm actually hoping my kids will inherit some of my animal love and want to show with me. But even then, it would be limited showing and no Sunday shows. If I'm really going to get into showing, it would have to wait til the kids were at least in high school and could take care of themselves if I'm gone or whatever.


 The handlers I have seen with kids are generally pros or are from a show family where everyone gets involved. I think that's different. Then it is about a job and/or a lifestyle that the spouses are BOTH part of-- a shared interest. In my house, handling is my daughter's passion but she is still very new to it-- has not even been showing a yr yet. Neither my husband nor I were ever part of any sort of show world. I try to support my daughter in every way that I can, and am encouraging my husband to do the same. But we have 4 other kids with needs, too! It would be very difficult for me, personally, to force my whole family to give up their weekends and a lot of money for my hobby. (I wouldn't be too happy if my husband were gone a lot of weekends playing golf or something.) That being said, there is nothing wrong with doing limited showing, if that is all that time and money allow. It does not have to be all or nothing.



Goldens&Friesians said:


> @LJack: Its always so disheartening to hear things like that because that's how most people are.


 I am very saddened by the news on this thread of the irresponsible and unethical breeding. Heartbreaking.


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## Megora

Goldens&Friesians said:


> But even then, it would be limited showing and no Sunday shows.


I get that part.... 

I technically have problems showing on Sundays because it is a church day for me. I usually can make it work because MBF (at least) usually puts Goldens after 10AM. I can usually make it out to dog shows if I bring dogs to church and leave directly after. I do avoid showing on Sundays though unless it's relatively close.

Foy Trent, Roy Jones - tend to mess me up by setting very early times for goldens on Sundays.

Obedience always starts early... so I never ever would consider entering a Sunday trial.

(if you drag those kids along to dog shows - they will grow up in dog shows. It's not different from all the horse mom's out there who take their kids riding with them very early... and get them riding and learning how to sit alone up on the horse by the time they are 3-4 years old, those kids grow up riding horses and showing them).


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## ArchersMom

I don't have experience in Conformation, but maybe try competing in another venues while you have young kiddos. I know how crazy it is, I have a son whom turned 1 last week. My only hobbies are my dogs and hunting and I made a point to continue doing what I love. It keeps me sane. My son, Branch, and I started up field training when he was 6 weeks old. He attended his first conformation show at 6 months. We didn't compete but I helped with setup and the raffle from 6am until 4pm. He was there for every hunt test pass and now that pheasant season is here he's going out with me in his backpack and earmuffs. He loves meeting people and going new places with me and I've gotten more involved in the Golden community as a result  there's no time like the present.

Here's Branch at his first Hunt Test


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## Prism Goldens

Tagliarenicb said:


> Thanks for your response! My breeder lives in MA and does not show dogs. She bought already championed dogs....I have reached out to a few handlers in my area, hoping to get responses.


Pedigree: Nw Retriever Jax Teller this dog? Buying an 'already championed' dog is pretty much a not done thing... and this dog's sire and dam are not CH. Unless you mean Int CH (in your statement re: your breeder), in that case, that's more like a match- not a statement of quality at all.
I am sure the urge to go reproduce is strong- but if you care even a tiny bit about Goldens you will stop reproducing them until they have shown (after 24 months) that they are worth reproducing. OTOH- if all you care about is the bucks then you will not heed the good advice you got here.


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## forgop

If the priority is just for the experience for your kids, go for it. If it is about trying to title dogs whose pedigree isn't strong for conformation, it'll be a big money pit. Competition is so tough that nice dogs can cost $10-15k to finish, so imagine the expense getting a dog finished with an amateur handler from apparently non-show parents. 

The best advice I'd have before you start is to attend a show with your dogs and find a breeder/handler to give feedback on their opinion of how competitive your dogs will likely be. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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