# Unprovoked biting - HELP!



## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

How old is Murphy? How much socialization have you done with him? What was your reaction when he snapped at you while brushing?


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## Helo's Mom (Oct 16, 2011)

I'm wondering if he isn't feeling well.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Hi, welcome to the forum, sorry you're having this problem with your boy around kids.

I think it's very very important that a dog is use to being around children and even if they are, you should still keep a very close eye on your dog, never leave them unsupervised with children regardless of how many times they have been around them. 

I'm not saying this is the case with you, something I've learned from experience.

I also think it's very very important for young children to be taught how to treat all animals and how they should act around them. Often times I have seen that young children have not been taught to be calm, gentle with animals. Have not been taught not to pull their hair, poke them in the eye or nose, etc.

Young children often times get excited around dogs, they will run around, make a lot of noise. Some dogs will think they want to play while other dogs will become afraid. 

I think it's best to introduce a dog to children in a very clam setting and when children are calm also.

I agree with Helo's Mom, it might be a good idea to have your boy checked by your Vet to see if there are any medical issues.


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

If this is new behavior I'd get him to the Vet asap.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

You see it as unprovoked. He say them as threats he wasn't used to and didn't understand. 

First have him checked for any medical problems.

Then get a trainer/behaviorist to help socialize him with children...children who know how to behave around dogs.


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## Tailer'sFolks (Feb 27, 2007)

Have a complete Thyroid5 Panel done through Hemopet.org

Thyroid Testing

Sometimes this kind of change could be a thyroid issue...please do not let you Vet do a partial thyroid test...it will not show the entire picture! Goldens levels are not the same as all dogs either!

It will be well worth the $145 for the test through Hemopet...the Vets will also charge a blood draw fee, a fee to spin the blood, a fee to ship the blood and a fee to interpret the results. I pay online and get results sent to both me and my vet. Doc Jean Dodds will also interpret the results know you have a Golden. Good Luck!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Suggest a vet check for physical or health issues (perhaps a thyroid check). It is clear that Murphy was very uncomfortable in the situation you placed him in - it was just too much for him. Dog bites are rarely 'unprovoked' as we often think, it is the persons behavior towards them, that makes them feel threatened enough to defend themselves. We can not expect children to understand what our dogs are 'saying' so it is up to us to pay attention and understand our dogs stress (Leave me alone, I am not comfortable with what is going on) signals. Dogs do give off warning signals, sometimes subtle and often missed, that say they are not feeling good about the situation, if the situation continues, the signals unnoticed and inadvertently ignore, they are forced to get 'louder' and sometimes physical. 
When our dog's behavior changes from the 'norm' it is always best to get a vet check for health issues. Suggest also a consult with a certified canine behaviorist who can help you to understand how to read your dog's body language (what he is 'saying') and to learn what an appropriate response (on your part) would be.
Above all, we need to remember that no dog is ever 100% safe around children, vigilance and understanding of how our dog is feeling will go a long ways to prevent accidents from happening.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Jillyd said:


> ... I took him to my boyfriends house and he has 4 kids. Murphy isn't used to being around that many kids for that long of a period of time. Murphy snapped 4 times at 4 different kids. He left a scratch on the 2 year old and broke the skin on the 4 year old. He got him just above the eye and left teeth marks. If Murphy had bit just a little lower, the kid could have really been hurt and possibly lost his eye. All the incidents were unprovoked, which is what really concerns me. I have had a behaviorist out to discuss the biting, but it is hard to work on b/c I can't put a kid in a situation that it could possibly happen again. That was about 1 month ago. Then last week Murphy snapped at another dog that he has played with before. Again it was unprovoked. Murphy was eating grass and Molly just came up by him. Then Murphy snapped again when she came close to him while he was lying down. And then snapped at me when I was brushing him. This is very unusual behavior. Murphy has always been very good with kids. I am very nervous about having him around kids. What if it happens again? My boyfriend will not let Murphy around his kids and I can't blame him. I don't know what to do. I don't want to get rid of Murphy, but don't know if there would be a better environment for him to be in. I eventually want a family and kids and I am very concerned about Murphy biting again. Please help! I am at a loss right now. Thank you!


Ok, first make the appointment with your vet today to have the full evaluation and blood work done. Since your 'behaviorist' did not request that you have this done prior to your evaluation, I believe you probably did not see a 'certified veterinary behaviorist'. Please check out the link I'm going to attach and see what your options are. 

Find a Board Certified Veterinary Behaviorist « ACVB

Depending on where you are in Indiana you should a couple different choices within a reasonable driving distance. I would be looking for someone who is certified if this were my dog.

I agree, your boyfriend should not let his kids around Murphy right now, and I sure wish when Murphy snapped at the first child that day you had removed him from the situation instead of letting all those incidents build. Now he has had a bite break skin and saw that his behavior was successful in getting the frightening/offensive behavior to stop. Please, please do not put him in any more situations for the time being where he feels anxious or could be in a position to practice this behavior again. I wouldn't let anyone he doesn't know interact with him right now until you can get to the bottom of this.

I'm sorry for your upset, this is going to be hard but it will be worth making major efforts to have it resolved.


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## Jillyd (Sep 11, 2013)

Thank you all for your advice! I did take Murphy to the Vet. That was the first thing I did. The Vet didn't find anything wrong and recommended the Dog Behaviorist. I worked with her for 3 hours on his behaviors and cues. That was right after the inital incident happened before he snapped at the other dog and then me. Another thing is I live in an apartment, which has been ok, but he doesn't have a yard to run in. I know he isn't getting the exercise that he needs due my schedule and living in an apartment. I have had Murphy since he was 3 months old and he is now 5. Murphy is also my first dog. Thanks!


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

In my opinion if the dog is healthy and doesn't like children, you should not force the issue with a behaviorist. In the many years I've owned dogs, two of them didn't like children. Once growled at my young neice and the dog was one. Neve let her around children again. The 150lb mastiff swung his head toward a 12 year old that pet him. He too was kept from children. I discussed this with a trainer who said "anyone" should be able to pet your dog. My answer to him was "if my dog harmed a child I'd have to put him to sleep, it's just not worth it to me". SO, my dogs lived very happy lives without children in theirs!!


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## Jillyd (Sep 11, 2013)

I don't think it's b/c he doesn't like children. Murphy has been around children before and been fine. I have nieces and cousins and he has always been fine with children in the neighborhood. Thank you for your advice.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Jillyd said:


> Thank you all for your advice! I did take Murphy to the Vet. That was the first thing I did. The Vet didn't find anything wrong and recommended the Dog Behaviorist. I worked with her for 3 hours on his behaviors and cues. That was right after the inital incident happened before he snapped at the other dog and then me. Another thing is I live in an apartment, which has been ok, but he doesn't have a yard to run in. I know he isn't getting the exercise that he needs due my schedule and living in an apartment. I have had Murphy since he was 3 months old and he is now 5. Murphy is also my first dog. Thanks!


Did the vet run a full bloodwork panel? Did the Behaviorist go over the workup and the information? I am in full agreement with Murphy1's comments, however if you are hoping to have children some day, your golden could live another 7 or 8 years, this is an important issue to get to the bottom with. I just hate to see you discuss rehoming the dog if there are other steps that could be pursued. And when you say "behaviorist" anyone can call themselves that, if they are not board certified, how do you know what type of training they've had?


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