# Golden Retriever Styles



## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

This is a great thread, and a topic I have also tried to learn more about as well. There are a few breeders around me that all have different styles of goldens. One breeder has conformation bred dogs, heavy boned and big heads. You recognize those dogs when you see them out and about. Another breeder competes in agility and obedience and produces dogs finer boned, less coat, thinner heads with less stop, and I also can recognize her dogs around town.

Both breeders have conformation titles on their dogs so obviously they are breeding within standard, but I would consider both very different styles of goldens.

I have also heard others say that they "see the Quapaw" in my boy, and that Kathy has a definite style she produces. I think Denver looks much like his Dam's side too so I also see it.


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## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

Emmdenn said:


> This is a great thread, and a topic I have also tried to learn more about as well. There are a few breeders around me that all have different styles of goldens. One breeder has conformation bred dogs, heavy boned and big heads. You recognize those dogs when you see them out and about. Another breeder competes in agility and obedience and produces dogs finer boned, less coat, thinner heads with less stop, and I also can recognize her dogs around town.
> 
> Both breeders have conformation titles on their dogs so obviously they are breeding within standard, but I would consider both very different styles of goldens.
> 
> I have also heard others say that they "see the Quapaw" in my boy, and that Kathy has a definite style she produces. I think Denver looks much like his Dam's side too so I also see it.


Hopefully we get to learn together 😅 I don't really have enough experience to tell different lines apart right now, much less styles. I guess the best I can do right now is being able to tell if a dog was bred in eastern Europe vs the US.


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Tagrenine said:


> Hopefully we get to learn together 😅 I don't really have enough experience to tell different lines apart right now, much less styles. I guess the best I can do right now is being able to tell if a dog was bred in eastern Europe vs the US.


Yes me too, and there is a huge difference between the types of dogs "english cream" breeders produce and the types of dogs that dedicated breeders with english type dogs produce.


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## JulesAK (Jun 6, 2010)

I enjoy this topic as well. We were walking the cruise docks one day and a gentleman came up to me to meet Maggie. He said he couldn't believe how much she looked like a co-workers dog. Come to find out, same breeder and same sire!! Pretty funny as he was from Montana and was up here in Alaska and recognized her dogs 
Jules


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## SoCalEngr (Apr 11, 2020)

We have Kona groomed by a local hobby breeder, who also does grooming. The first time we went over, she looked at Kona and said "that's one of Alan's dogs, isn't she?".


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## Mindquad (Aug 9, 2020)

I know I’m a novice here, but as I type I’m reading my printed copy of the GRCA’s Illustrated Guide To The Breed for the 20th time this week, haha, I’m just nerding out on this breed harddddd. Love that the guide contains descriptions, color images, etc. of all described types of bodies, faces, faults, etc.

I do have to say, after eyeballing a lot of GR’s winning shows, that a lot of them look REALLY overdone, they almost look like Newfies. Fluffy coats, thick wrinkled heads with slit eyes and giant bear paws with nails and coat trimmed super short.

Then I see some agility/field lines very similar to that described by @Emmdenn

isn’t any style that differs from the standard just mean the dog is not up to standard? I’m not being confrontational or saying those dogs don’t look gorgeous, I love all different kinds of Goldens. But I am asking about this in the sense of trying to understand what _should_ a “good golden retriever” look like??


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Mindquad said:


> But I am asking about this in the sense of trying to understand what _should_ a “good golden retriever” look like??












^^^ The above was drawn by Marcia Schlehr and essentially has come to represent what people visualize as the overall look/type of the breed. One dog to the next, the coats may be longer. The dogs may come in different shades of gold. But in essentials if you strip away the coat and fuss or soak the dogs to the skin - this is what the breed looks like. That is breed type.

Style is interpretation of breed standard + whatever everyone is breeding and showing. It also includes grooming styles which quite honestly can mislead many people into thinking the dogs have massive bone and size when viewing on TV or looking at pictures.... likewise, grooming styles can trick the viewer's eye into thinking a dog is more correct than it actually is.

One of the things that has me shaking my head a ton is so many people talking about how straight US goldens are in front and how correct european dogs are. But you look at how they are groomed!










The image on the left shows how European dogs have their necks clipped super close like setters and then this weird tuft of mane is left on their forechest. What this does is create more angle in front even if the dog in essentials basically has the same front as a US golden groomed like they typically are over here especially with CH dogs being campaigned all over the place.

(oh and side note, you see how the picture is not the same shade of white as the forum screen - assuming you have is set to light vs dark??? To some out there, that means the picture background is a shade of gold! )

There are other grooming and presentation differences, but I'm not going to go too crazy going into that since I'm halfway out the door at the moment.

When people talk about style - it's them saying they are breeding dogs who are correct per the breed standard. Meaning soak the dogs or clip the dogs and they have that same shape/look that is easily recognizable as a golden retriever. That even includes field goldens and whatnot.

Style is interpretation of the breed standard - whether moderate means minimal furnishings or "more than".

If you are somebody defending your European line golden, it's turning your human body into a pretzel trying to convince other people that if something is not the same shade of white as snow or a piece of white paper, it's not actually white....

Then in the conformation ring where you might rarely to never see a european style golden (unless the judge is a foreigner or one of those who breeds/shows the style themselves) you might quite honestly only see one style of golden retriever out there in one region vs another based on who the popular sires or which lines are more common than others.

Here in Michigan - I'll say that the Malagold dogs look a smidge different than the Summit based lines you see being shown by other people here in the state. And Summit based lines look a smidge different than some of the out east bred dogs who sometimes show up at big shows. And so on.


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## Mindquad (Aug 9, 2020)

Megora said:


> View attachment 876666
> 
> 
> ^^^ The above was drawn by Marcia Schlehr and essentially has come to represent what people visualize as the overall look/type of the breed. One dog to the next, the coats may be longer. The dogs may come in different shades of gold. But in essentials if you strip away the coat and fuss or soak the dogs to the skin - this is what the breed looks like. That is breed type.
> ...


thank you for that response! I feel much more educated now and I guess I also need to go check out the breed guides in other countries now too. Oh no my wife is going to hate my obsession of reading about Goldens.


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## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

Megora said:


> View attachment 876666
> 
> 
> ^^^ The above was drawn by Marcia Schlehr and essentially has come to represent what people visualize as the overall look/type of the breed. One dog to the next, the coats may be longer. The dogs may come in different shades of gold. But in essentials if you strip away the coat and fuss or soak the dogs to the skin - this is what the breed looks like. That is breed type.
> ...


Thank you for this!!

Yeah I've noticed that grooming makes a huge difference in presentation. I had remembered reading that Goldens are not supposed to be clipped like a setter or spaniel, but I don't think I've seen US breeders doing that. 

But thank you!! So it's more likely that it's popular sire influence versus a specific breeder breeding to the standard differently than another? And it sounds like it takes a keen eye to notice subtle differences between kennels. So there is not one kennel known for "this style head" versus "this bone density"? 

Goldens are a breed where you really need to have a trained eye because so many dogs are so spectacular...but all things considered, if the dog fits into the standard as much as any other dog in the ring, but is distinct in some way, is that enough to tell the breeding of that dog? 

I know basically nothing about Summit dogs, so this example doesn't mean anything about them at all: So say if you had a lineup of dogs, everybody is pretty similar, but there is a Summit dog in the group with a characteristic coat/head/etc, would someone be able to tell ringside? Or would it be more like "that dog looks like he's bred out of X sire"?


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## Rion05 (Jan 4, 2016)

This is an interesting discussion and something I've been paying attention to, as well. A golden handler once told me that there are over 300 acceptable styles of golden retriever being shown! If you watch the dogs being shown you can almost start to pick out certain styles and you start to recognize the offspring or relatives of various popular dogs. I do think breeders favor a certain "look" which becomes their interpretation of the standard and perhaps their "style." I do think it is fascinating to look at old photos of goldens shown years ago and how the styles seem to have changed in certain cases. Some of this is grooming, but at least some of what we see today seems to be different preferences in style.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Tagrenine said:


> But thank you!! So it's more likely that it's popular sire influence versus a specific breeder breeding to the standard differently than another? And it sounds like it takes a keen eye to notice subtle differences between kennels. So there is not one kennel known for "this style head" versus "this bone density"?
> 
> I know basically nothing about Summit dogs, so this example doesn't mean anything about them at all: So say if you had a lineup of dogs, everybody is pretty similar, but there is a Summit dog in the group with a characteristic coat/head/etc, would someone be able to tell ringside? Or would it be more like "that dog looks like he's bred out of X sire"?


The answer to the first question is No. There ARE kennels known for specific head styles and bone density. Malagold is one head style that pops into my head immediately. Rush Hill is another. 

In answer to the second question, yes, you can tell Summit dogs sitting ringside. If nothing else gives it away, then Beth being at the end of the lead will. You can also tell dogs with Rush Hill influence almost instantly. Once you see it, you can't unsee it if that makes sense. East Coast people should be able to recognize Gold-Rush dogs instantly (now that the daughter-in-law has taken over, you will start seeing more Gold-Rush on the West Coast). But again, being able to recognize these styles takes time and going to shows. Nothing replaces seeing the dogs in person and taking notes - either mentally or physically.


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## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

Thank you!! It definitely sounds like it takes a lot of time ringside and around the dogs to develop this eye. I can sort of see different styles, but don't have enough experience to say who they're from/their breeding. It is very hard to tell on a screen the kind of differences that I want to be able to see. And to confirm, as long as they fall into the breed standard, no one style is more correct than the other, they just fall into personal preference right?


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Tagrenine said:


> Thank you!! It definitely sounds like it takes a lot of time ringside and around the dogs to develop this eye. I can sort of see different styles, but don't have enough experience to say who they're from/their breeding. It is very hard to tell on a screen the kind of differences that I want to be able to see. And to confirm, as long as they fall into the breed standard, no one style is more correct than the other, they just fall into personal preference right?


That depends on how you view the standard. There are styles out there that I don't think are wholly correct based on my understanding of the breed standard, but they still win, so. This question could open a big can of worms. LOL


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Tagrenine said:


> Yeah I've noticed that grooming makes a huge difference in presentation. I had remembered reading that Goldens are not supposed to be clipped like a setter or spaniel, but I don't think I've seen US breeders doing that.


AKC Handlers DO do a modified version - though not as extreme.










Refer to the red lines above. It's stripping fur close on the neck and under jaw while encouraging the furnishings to flow straight down.... we all do this to a certain extent to reduce stuffiness around the necks and smooth out the necklines.

But there are handlers who do extra along those red lines. There is an angle in front which is created or embellished with thinning shears or even handstripping in front. Creative grooming. Sculpting, etc. 

You just do not see the throat area stripped back like a setter/spaniel like they do overseas. I'm not kidding - looked at all crufts winners a couple years ago and all the spaniels, setters, and retrievers had the same clip. >.< 



Tagrenine said:


> So it's more likely that it's popular sire influence versus a specific breeder breeding to the standard differently than another? And it sounds like it takes a keen eye to notice subtle differences between kennels. So there is not one kennel known for "this style head" versus "this bone density"?


I think refer back to the other thread and you can see all the different looks and styles there are because of popular sires and then also different breeders with different visions when it comes to what they believe the golden retriever should be, etc. 

Some of the older and bigger names in the breed established very set looks/styles many years ago and they've been consistent ever since. And newer breeders around them developed their lines from those older breeders, etc...


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## Malcolm's Mom (Jul 14, 2012)

Ugh. You had me look up Crufts winner photos. Lovely dogs, but those clipped necks...


Megora said:


> You just do not see the throat area stripped back like a setter/spaniel like they do overseas. I'm not kidding - looked at all crufts winners a couple years ago and all the spaniels, setters, and retrievers had the same clip. >.<


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## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

Oooo thank you!! That helped explain things a lot. You really don't quite get how much grooming goes into presenting a show dog until you're the one trying to learn the grooming. The other thread has helped me a lot! I went back and explored the descendents and ancestors of those dogs, trying to get a feel about different lines. I realized some are more distinct than others, but there is a lot of consistency among some breeders.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

The breeder and judge Doug Johnson speaks about this in some videos- about the master breeders who have internalized type ( true to the breed standard) , and go on to make an impactful artistic, consistent interpretation ( style) of their own. A typee dog, a dog of good breed type, may be from careful breeding or even a lucky accident. However, a breeder who is able to both produce dogs true to the breed standard and of a recognizable style that's theirs is very rare and a splendid accomplishment.

The opposite of style is a generic golden. It has enough type that it is identifiable as a golden retriever, but is meh. "Moderate" is a tricky word because it can be very useful to describe a good quality in a golden, but it also can be a code excuse word for lacking in type and style


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## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

Ljilly28 said:


> The breeder and judge Doug Johnson speaks about this in some videos- about the master breeders who have internalized type ( true to the breed standard) , and go on to make an impactful artistic, consistent interpretation ( style) of their own. A typee dog, a dog of good breed type, may be from careful breeding or even a lucky accident. However, a breeder who is able to both produce dogs true to the breed standard and of a recognizable style that's theirs is very rare and a splendid accomplishment.
> 
> The opposite of style is a generic golden. It has enough type that it is identifiable as a golden retriever, but is meh. "Moderate" is a tricky word because it can be very useful to describe a good quality in a golden, but it also can be a code excuse word for lacking in type and style


Thank you!! This is a really great explanation. So a dog of a particular style is a dog that is true to the breed standard and of a style that a master breeder has internalized. This may have impacts outside of the breeders own program, such as other programs who use those dogs and end up perpetuating that style. 

Now judges can have preference, they can recognize a style of dog for being within or true to breed standard, but prefer a different style, for whatever that may be, but the fact remains that both dogs are good representative of the breed without becoming generic.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Exactly!!! This is why it is so difficult for goldens to do things like win Best In Show at Westminster. It is a big breed numbers wise , and within a larger group of very nice goldens with lovely breed type, there can be many different styles. It is not easy to line up a breed judge, a group judge , and a best in show judge who all endorse and prefer the same style to that degree. 

In rare breeds, there may be just a handful all of similar style. It is a different ballgame.

This applies to showing in specialties too. If there are several dogs of equal caliber breed type, then the judge may defer to his/ her/ their favorite style in good conscience.

It is easier to show a golden who appeals to a variety of tastes, and has excellent breed type as well as style that appeals to many. Easy isn't better though.

It is better to have the motto "to thine own dog be true" and stay the course with the style in which you believe once you are very sure you know the details of breed type and have good breed type in your dogs.

I've had dogs who are effortless to finish, finishing in just a few shows; I've had dogs who appeal to a very specific group of judges, and it is pointless to show them to all comers. 

As a competitor, you grow to know what judges are in harmony with your own eye for a dog and what judges don't agree. 

When a judge can decide a win on preferred style, that means there are quality dogs in abundance because breed type comes first.

I have an appreciation for many styles of golden, although I might not want to breed that style myself. I am not at the level of master breeder in which I am originating a style all my own, though it is in my mind's eye . I have tremendous admiration for the master breeders who are at that level. Sometimes breeders will achieve a distinct style and thrive for a while, but then almost cartoon their dogs trying to maintain the look and line breeding.


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## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

Ljilly28 said:


> Exactly!!! This is why it is so difficult for goldens to do things like win Best In Show at Westminster. It is a big breed numbers wise , and within a larger group of very nice goldens with lovely breed type, there can be many different styles. It is not easy to line up a breed judge, a group judge , and a best in show judge who all endorse and prefer the same style to that degree.
> 
> In rare breeds, there may be just a handful all of similar style. It is a different ballgame.
> 
> ...


I think I have heard, in other breeds, of some dogs becoming caricatures, but I've not seen it yet. I've heard a few breeders talking about how difficult it is to improve upon their dogs/lines without losing other parts (in particular they mentioned the head being very difficult to get back). I look forward to seeing more styles of dogs, thank you for you answer!


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## Neeya (Sep 15, 2020)

Emmdenn said:


> This is a great thread, and a topic I have also tried to learn more about as well. There are a few breeders around me that all have different styles of goldens. One breeder has conformation bred dogs, heavy boned and big heads. You recognize those dogs when you see them out and about. Another breeder competes in agility and obedience and produces dogs finer boned, less coat, thinner heads with less stop, and I also can recognize her dogs around town.
> 
> Both breeders have conformation titles on their dogs so obviously they are breeding within standard, but I would consider both very different styles of goldens.
> 
> I have also heard others say that they "see the Quapaw" in my boy, and that Kathy has a definite style she produces. I think Denver looks much like his Dam's side too so I also see it.


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## Neeya (Sep 15, 2020)

Tagrenine said:


> I think I have heard, in other breeds, of some dogs becoming caricatures, but I've not seen it yet. I've heard a few breeders talking about how difficult it is to improve upon their dogs/lines without losing other parts (in particular they mentioned the head being very difficult to get back). I look forward to seeing more styles of dogs, thank you for you answer!


My golden is conformation bred. His bone structure is large and his head is big and boxy. People comment on his looks which are quite different from the thin snout and lean bodied. His perfect weight is 100 pounds (veterinarian recommended).


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Neeya said:


> My golden is conformation bred. His bone structure is large and his head is big and boxy. People comment on his looks which are quite different from the thin snout and lean bodied. His perfect weight is 100 pounds (veterinarian recommended).


People comment on your boys features because the “generic” pet Goldens people see frequently out and about have a longer face, less bone and less breed type than a conformation bred golden, though 100lbs would definitely be considered oversized per the breed standard.

When people see a dog with a nice head, like conformation dogs have they’re often struck by the difference.


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## Mindquad (Aug 9, 2020)

Emmdenn said:


> People comment on your boys features because the “generic” pet Goldens people see frequently out and about have a longer face, less bone and less breed type than a conformation bred golden, *though 100lbs would definitely be considered oversized per the breed standard.*
> 
> When people see a dog with a nice head, like conformation dogs have they’re often struck by the difference.


I see a LOT of overdone/large GRs. It was one of the reasons I was avoiding GR for my family, I legit thought they were all 80-100 lb dogs. It wasn’t until I dig into the breed standard and started seeing with more “educated” eyes (educated for a layman, Lol) that I realized that most of the giant GRs I saw came from BYB

while I appreciate some “style”, I still think these giant fluffy, loose lipped, wrinkles headed, thick boned dogs are pretty far off of the breed standard, especially since GRs are purpose bred dogs


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Sharing this with a smile....  

Both pictures are the same dog about a week apart. 

This is an AKC pointed little man whose last show of 2020 before the dang shutdown got a major reserve (and seemed very close to getting that 4 point major). 

Although those big boy good looks, coat, bone seem to visually add 10-25 pounds to him - according to people I've talked to.... he only weights 67 pounds. 

I keep him lean because it's healthier for him. More weight on a dog = shorter active life for them. And possibly shorter life. 

The coat is not an excess coat, btw. He's pretty moderate - but has an awesome thick undercoat. Makes my life easier when I get to show him.


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## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

Megora said:


> Sharing this with a smile....
> 
> Both pictures are the same dog about a week apart.
> 
> ...


Wow!! That is a gorgeous dog  I would never have guessed he weighs 67, his bone adds a lot of substance to him, but not in a bad way,I think he looks super balanced in these photos. Thank you for sharing!!


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

100 lb for a conformation-bred Golden is 25 lb too heavy, so either the dog is way oversized or it's way overweight. Most of the conformation boys that I know weigh in the 68-72 lb range. Maybe 75 if they are at the top of the ideal height range.


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## JulesAK (Jun 6, 2010)

ArkansasGold said:


> 100 lb for a conformation-bred Golden is 25 lb too heavy, so either the dog is way oversized or it's way overweight. Most of the conformation boys that I know weigh in the 68-72 lb range. Maybe 75 if they are at the top of the ideal height range.


I agree Maegan. Some people don't realize it isn't just weight but height should be assessed as well. The dog may look fine and still be outside of breed standard.

Jules


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## Mindquad (Aug 9, 2020)

@Megora your dog is beautiful. I wish I could post pics of the dogs I’m referring to, but that would be pretty unfair of me, and would be taken out of context I’m sure.


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Megora said:


> Sharing this with a smile....
> 
> Both pictures are the same dog about a week apart.
> 
> ...


He’s gorgeous! There is nothing I love more than seeing a fit golden! People tell me all the time Denver is too skinny...he’s 68 pounds and is extremely fit. People just are used to seeing dogs with no waist and assume that is what Goldens are supposed to be built like.


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## Rion05 (Jan 4, 2016)

I agree that coat can be deceiving! I have myself described my boy as moderate, as he is not at the top of the standard. He is about 23.25-23.5 inches and 67 pounds and I prefer to keep him lean (we love obedience and are also trying our hand at agility; he is also AKC-Champion pointed). The standard for males is 23-24 inches and 65-75 pounds. Goldens are supposed to be athletes and sporting dogs. In the first two photos he is dry. My dog actually is not dripping in coat by any stretch, but he has some feathering. In the last, he is forlornly looking for his neighbor dog friend in the rain. 😂

Megora - your boys are gorgeous! Emmdenn - your boy is handsome and looks like he's the perfect weight. 

I have seen a style of dog at non-AKC shows that is very heavy-flewed, almost newf-like, with more bone than I see on AKC dogs. This is sometimes rewarded, which is surprising only as the standard in that registry reads very similarly than the AKC standard. My understanding is that your golden is supposed to be a size able to be lifted in and out of a duck boat without tipping the boat (I don't lift my golden except in and out of an SUV for obedience, agility, or conformation classes, but if he was even a few pounds heavier, my back couldn't take it).  In all seriousness, the standard would suggest that they are not supposed to be 80+ dogs.


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## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

Rion05 said:


> I agree that coat can be deceiving! I have myself described my boy as moderate, as he is not at the top of the standard. He is about 23.25-23.5 inches and 67 pounds and I prefer to keep him lean (we love obedience and are also trying our hand at agility; he is also AKC-Champion pointed). The standard for males is 23-24 inches and 65-75 pounds. Goldens are supposed to be athletes and sporting dogs. In the first two photos he is dry. My dog actually is not dripping in coat by any stretch, but he has some feathering. In the last, he is forlornly looking for his neighbor dog friend in the rain. 😂
> 
> Megora - your boys are gorgeous!
> 
> ...


He's so handsome! He actually is exactly the same height and weight as Felix! I hope Fe matures out like your guy did, what a stunning man


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Can I just say I’ve loved seeing all these fit young boys! All so handsome.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

58 lbs ( girlie); 77lbs (boy)


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Thanks for posting a girl @Ljilly28 , but can we get some more girl photos on here?!? Eevee is the top of the ideal height range for females and weighs 65 lb. She's not small, but if you put her next to a dog of similar size, you can tell which is the male and which is the female - as it's supposed to be. 
This was her from back in June.









I don't consider her to be a moderate dog, but she's not overdone by any means. On the style topic, I'm not sure that she's really any one style or other, but she's also not generic (if I do say so myself lol). She's from an outcrossed litter, so she's a combination of two or three different styles.


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

We have a bitch puppy at home and I’ll be interested to see what size she ends up being. Her dam is 58 pounds, sire is 65 pounds.


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## JulesAK (Jun 6, 2010)

I was thinking the same thing Maegan. I see these boys with bigger coats (which I do love) and I don't think Maggie will ever have that heavy of a coat. I don't show her so I am actually pleased she doesn't have a heavier coat, easier for me to groom and keep up on vacuuming  Not a super picture but you can see she has a bit of coat. I wonder if she will fill out more as she is not quite 2?


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

JulesAK said:


> I was thinking the same thing Maegan. I see these boys with bigger coats (which I do love) and I don't think Maggie will ever have that heavy of a coat. I don't show her so I am actually pleased she doesn't have a heavier coat, easier for me to groom and keep up on vacuuming  Not a super picture but you can see she has a bit of coat. I wonder if she will fill out more as she is not quite 2?
> View attachment 876791


Maggie may fill out some more as she gets older. I expect Eevee to fill out even more than she already has, so she may end up a little heavier than 65 lb at full maturity and in "hard working condition", but it will be mostly muscle at that point. She's more filled out now than she is in that photo. Most bitches struggle with having a ton of coat because they shed with their cycles. Eevee has been getting weekly baths for the last 3 months, which has helped her to grow more coat, but she all of sudden starting shedding like crazy 2.5 weeks ago and came in season within about 2 days of me noticing an abnormal amount of hair flying off her when I was blow drying. Thankfully she didn't blow _*all *_of that nice new coat that has grown in over the last 3 months. LOL Some bitches keep their feathering when they blow coat, some shed undercoat and feathering, and then there are others that keep their full coat all the time.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

This is my girl Sayer ( AM CH Pebwin Reverie Soothsayer CGC) she is 57 lbs. She is one of my 3 look-alike Mystic daughters.


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## Rion05 (Jan 4, 2016)

ArkansasGold said:


> Thanks for posting a girl @Ljilly28 , but can we get some more girl photos on here?!? Eevee is the top of the ideal height range for females and weighs 65 lb. She's not small, but if you put her next to a dog of similar size, you can tell which is the male and which is the female - as it's supposed to be.
> This was her from back in June.
> 
> I don't consider her to be a moderate dog, but she's not overdone by any means. On the style topic, I'm not sure that she's really any one style or other, but she's also not generic (if I do say so myself lol). She's from an outcrossed litter, so she's a combination of two or three different styles.


She's lovely!

But do we expect the girls to have the amount of coat the boys do? Eevee looks like a pretty girl just the way she is, as does Maggie. No, none of the dogs posted here have been overdone!

As to filling out, depending on the lines, doesn't it take some of them years - sometimes up to 3 or 4 to fully physically mature? Even at 2, my boy still is still maturing, gaining muscle. I imagine some of the girls may be, as well.

Thanks, Tangrenine. He's still got a puppy brain, but he's starting to look a bit more mature. Boys! 😂 Your lil guy is coming along nicely and you are doing a great job with him!


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