# Bear was struggling to get up last night



## Brave

I was up really late last night cleaning and around midnight, Bear was still awake and moving around but I noticed something that concerns me greatly. When he tried to get up off the floor he was straining to get his hind legs under him. If he wanted to change positions, he would sit up then drag his bum and hind legs into the new position. And when he tried to climb onto the sofa (maybe 1 foot off the ground) I had to help him up because while he had his hand legs up there, he got stuck at the edge in what appears to be a weakness of the hind legs. He hasn't been bunny hopping and he has great muscle tone back there (that I can tell), but I plan on getting X-rays done asap! He was able to get into bed without help and I massaged his rump and legs for a while last night. 

I tried talking to my DH about it this morning before work but he brushed me off saying he was too asleep and it was too early (3 am, anyone? Lol!) and we can talk about it after work today. This morning Bear seems fine. He did some long stretches with his hind legs stretched out behind him in bed and was his usual self. 

I still want to get X-rays done. This has me on pins and needles. We didn't do anything strenuous yesterday. I pulled weeds for 30ish minutes while Bear ran (intermittently) around our soft backyard. I've been walking him for 20-40 mins a few times a week, but not yesterday. (At 7 months he should be able to go 35 minutes and our walks are under 3.0 mph with many stops to train or smell the roses.) He gets fish oil and vitamin e every night. Though, for the last two nights, i've been adding the pills straight to his food instead of in a hot dog after dinner. 

Do i take him to his normal vet? Or do I seek out an orthopedic vet for X-rays? If i need to go to a specialist, how do I find a good one? 

I'm probably being hysterical because I'm running on 3 hours of sleep, so thank you in advance for being kind. 


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## OutWest

You're not hysterical at all. I d get X-rays done too, right away. Start with his regular vet. He can refer you to his favorite orotho if necessary. 

Your DH didn't see what you described. If he had, he'd probably be upset too.


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## AmberSunrise

I live in CT - Tick Borne Disease central, so that colors what I am about to say perhaps.

I would bring him in to his regular vet, explain all that you saw and request a Tick Panel if the vet feels TBDs occur in your area. You will also get in to a specialist sooner with a vet referral if your vet feels it is needed.


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## Bentleysmom

I'm glad Bear will be seeing a Vet for this but I will share an embarrassing story.
One day Bentley did exactly what you described. I panicked, grabbed him and ran to the Vet's office.
Turns out his leg had fallen asleep during his nap. :doh:
They won't let me live that one down 

I hope it's something simple with Bear too :crossfing


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## Brave

I've checked him religiously for ticks, but I will for sure ask the vet to consider that as a possibility. 

Outwest - thank you for being so supportive. I feel hysterical.  my mind keeps running and running in all directions. 


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## Brave

Bentleysmom said:


> I'm glad Bear will be seeing a Vet for this but I will share an embarrassing story.
> One day Bentley did exactly what you described. I panicked, grabbed him and ran to the Vet's office.
> Turns out his leg had fallen asleep during his nap. :doh:
> They won't let me live that one down
> 
> I hope it's something simple with Bear too :crossfing


Omg thank you for the laughter!!! I really need it today. 


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## TheZ's

Sunrise said:


> I live in CT - Tick Borne Disease central, so that colors what I am about to say perhaps.
> 
> I would bring him in to his regular vet, explain all that you saw and request a Tick Panel if the vet feels TBDs occur in your area. You will also get in to a specialist sooner with a vet referral if your vet feels it is needed.


I'm also from CT and had the same thought when I read difficulty getting up and weakness in rear legs. Let the vet suggest what the plan of action should be.


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## Brave

Called the vet and scheduled an appointment at 5:40 pm PDT. They assured me that if X-Rays are needed, we can still get the done at that hour. Thank god for the 24 hour clinic. I haven't cleared any of this with DH, but I don't think he'll fight me on it. I'm sure this morning he just wasn't awake enough to fully comprehend the conversation. He's not a morning person. I just want to drop everything and take him in now. Waiting all day stresses me out, but I have to get my braces fixed today because my tooth started turning which pushes the rest of the treatment back. That feels so selfish. Oh crap the running of the mouth started. Ok. Deep breath. I'm calming down. I promise. 

I remember one time I tried walking on my foot that was completely asleep. Twisted my ankle and went down like Jack and his Beanstalk got me. Silly ankle. 


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## CRS250

If this was a scenario where he had been prone or sleeping for a while I would be inclined to think it something similar to what Bentleysmom describes. My little guy really takes his time about getting his legs under him, I've never thought it was anything other than sleepiness. Our usual routine when we get up in the morning is him doing the full out leg sprawl straight out behind him, stetch out of his crate, yawning and putting his head in my lap for a scratch before he makes his way awake.


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## Brave

Just got off the phone with DH. Bear has been crated since 6:30 until a little after 1 pm. DH says he didn't have any trouble getting up but there is something wrong (unusual or out of ordinary) with his gait that he cannot put his finger on. He concurs we need to see the vet and get X-Rays if possible. I feel like one leg is walking choppy or at a different rhythm than normal. I am so glad DH and I are on the same page. Gosh 5 pm cannot come soon enough. I just want someone to reassure me that my little Boo Bear is fine and not in pain. And if he isn't, I need to know how I can fix it. 


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## Vhuynh2

I know it's hard, but try to relax. I am so sorry that something might be wrong with Bear. I'm crossing my fingers that it's something very minor.


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## GoldenMum

Give your little Boo Bear a kiss from me, I hope it's nothing. Glad you're getting it checked out!


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## goldensrbest

My kooper does that, but he is 10,and has a bad hip in one of them.


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## mudEpawz

any update on the bear?


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## Brave

Vhuynh2 said:


> I know it's hard, but try to relax. I am so sorry that something might be wrong with Bear. I'm crossing my fingers that it's something very minor.


Luck if the draw? We are so blessed on so many levels with Bear..... Somethings gotta give? I remember telling DH before we got Bear that joint problems were a major part of this breed and because he is a rescue, it really is come what may. I showed him as much info on hip dysplasia as I could. We went over types of treatments, etc. We have no family history to draw knowledge from, I doubt his mother was well bred, given the circumstances she was rescued under. But hopefully, it'll be something silly like a sore muscle or a sleeping foot. I don't mind having egg on my face in this situation. Lol!!!!!


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## Brave

mudEpawz said:


> any update on the bear?


Not yet. Still got 3.5 hours before our appointment. Thanks for checking in!!!!

(((((Hugs)))))


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## inge

3 1/2 hours is a long time when you are worried....


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## Brave

inge said:


> 3 1/2 hours is a long time when you are worried....


It feels like eternity. I was crying earlier to my DH because that is how I cope with stress. Lol. I get all blubbery. It's so embarrassing to cry at work. >.< Thank goodness I get by with silent tears at my desk. 

Everything will be fine. 
Everything IS fine. 
Hee hee hoooooooooooooh 


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## Davidrob2

Oh no! I've been busy all day and am just seeing this. I hope Bear (and you) will be OK.


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## Mirinde

Everything is going to be okay. Whatever is wrong, IF there is even anything wrong, you will all get through it. It never seems like it during the anticipation, but when you are actually dealing with it instead of waiting to deal with it, that momma bear game face will turn on and you will just breeze right through because you have to, Bear needs you to. And regardless of anything that MIGHT be wrong, Bear is loved and happy and you know that and you know that's all that is really important. Sending lots of calming vibes!


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## goldensrbest

Brave said:


> It feels like eternity. I was crying earlier to my DH because that is how I cope with stress. Lol. I get all blubbery. It's so embarrassing to cry at work. >.< Thank goodness I get by with silent tears at my desk.
> 
> Everything will be fine.
> Everything IS fine.
> Hee hee hoooooooooooooh
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 I think that ia a women thing,i do the same, crying helps to release, the worry.


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## Heart O'Gold

I hope it is something very minor and easily resolved. Sending hugs and good thoughts!


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## Karen519

*Bear*

Praying that Bear's vet appointment goes well. We are all praying for him!


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## A1Malinois

I am sending positive vibes your way!, I have a dog with hip problems and occasionally he has issues getting up but he also lays on the hardwood/tile a lot so he slips. Last night he basically got up and fell right back down. 

I hope it was just a fluke with Bear, I will be watching for an update


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## SheetsSM

Thinking good thoughts for your little man! Is he too old now for pano? Or could he be going through another growth spurt where things are a little wonky but will fix itself in short order?


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## Brave

Here here. Y'all are so sweet. Lord knows I am going stir crazy. 30 minutes till I leave work. And you know how time flies when it's on your own dime. Hopefully i can get some sleep while the orthodontist works on my braces, and compose myself before the vet. What's worse than blubbering at work? Walking into the vet's office and melting down. 

DH will make sure I am wearing my game face. Buckle up buttercup. Lol!!


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## Brave

SheetsSM said:


> Thinking good thoughts for your little man! Is he too old now for pano? Or could he be going through another growth spurt where things are a little wonky but will fix itself in short order?


Swear to God, Pano was my second thought. I've been googling like crazy all day long and from what I've gleaned pano can crop up anywhere from 5-15 months. If i am wrong, someone will correct me.  

Regardless, I will go to the moon and back (sans space shuttle ;P) for this pup, so I know we can handle everything in stride. I gotta tuck my emotions away for a bit. 


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## Tayla's Mom

I know how you feel. Tayla has bad hips and was diagnosed at 7 months. If that is the problem you may still have years before anything is done. We have Tayla on a great supplement, watch her weight and types of exercise and when we pay down some of Jesse's vet bills we will start acupuncture. She is 16 months old and has no issues that we can tell. Keep us posted.


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## Mayve

ugh I am so sorry you are going through this. I would be right there with you if it was Sage. It amazes my how totally they take your heart and run with it. Sending prayers and positive thoughts for you all...will try to check back later for an update!


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## mudEpawz

Brave said:


> Not yet. Still got 3.5 hours before our appointment. Thanks for checking in!!!!
> 
> (((((Hugs)))))
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Hugs to you as well! Sorry, I forgot about the time change :doh:. 

I'm a worrier as well, so I get what you're going through. The worst part of waiting for us worriers is that we let ourselves dwell on the issue. I dont know about you but I end thinking of a thousand possible outcomes that in reality couldn't even happen. On the brightside, we are usually wrong about all of them and things have a way of working themselves out. A couple months ago Chloe hurt her leg while having a zoomie in the backyard. Of course this happens RIGHT before I'm about to leave for work. I was all upset, I called my dad and he said "she will be fine and will rest while youre at work." Can I tell you the crazy things that were swimming around in my head. My co-workers must have thought I was nuts. I somehow made it through my shift, fly home to see her lounging in her favourite spot. After a few days, she was up and running around like her normal goofy self. 

Im sure Bear will be fine. Hopefully its something small and in a few days he will back to his normal Bear-self 

Take care and keep us posted


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## Brave

Logging off to leave work. Will update as soon as I know more. 


((((((Hugs all around))))))


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## dogloverforlife

Really hope it is nothing serious!

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## Thalie

Lots of NBD (No Big Deal) vibes for Bear.


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## GoldenNewbee

Oh so wishing everything turns out to be ok with Bear! Sending lots and lots of good thoughts!


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## Brave

Still at the vet. Bear did not like being here. He growled at the doctor!!! He was very tense during the exam but the vet thought she felt some inflammation in the knees. X-rays are ordered. She wants to run X-rays before ordering a full blood work-up. Bear had to be sedated for the X-Rays. Most heart wrenching part of the whole thing. The techs said he took longer than normal to go down. They didn't want me touching him as the sedation took hold but he freaked out when he couldn't feel or see me, so he laid between my legs on the floor with his head on my thigh and a towel over his eyes. His body kept jerking and jerking... Like your leg does when your falling asleep. I feel like such a horrible person right now. He was still awake but out of it when they took him to Radiology. I hope he isn't scared. They said I can keep a copy of the X-Rays, so if I can get my scanner at home working, I'll try to post them. 


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## Buddy's mom forever

Sending good vibes and prayers for sweet Bear, so hope it is something minor.


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## mudEpawz

oh bear... dont you wish you could explain to them whats happening and not to worry because they will be ok. breaks my heart to hear this. i hope the xrays come back ok.


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## Maddie'sMom2011

Fingers & paws crossed for good news.


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## Bentleysmom

I just stopped in to check on Bear. Poor guy he doesn't understand. I'm praying for him and you ♥


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## Brave

I'm out in the waiting room, crying, wondering what in sam hill could be taking this long and my not-so-DH is calmly taunting me play words w/ friends with him (electronic scrabble game). I ask him, is it going to be this hard when we have kids? "Yes". Why are you so calm!!!!!! "One of us has to be." 

I know he's just trying to take my mind off it because now he's making fish faces at me. 


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## Bentleysmom

Brave said:


> I'm out in the waiting room, crying, wondering what in sam hill could be taking this long and my not-so-DH is calmly taunting me play words w/ friends with him (electronic scrabble game). I ask him, is it going to be this hard when we have kids? "Yes". Why are you so calm!!!!!! "One of us has to be."
> 
> I know he's just trying to take my mind off it because now he's making fish faces at me.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


DH's are good for trying to take our mind off of worries. He's doing his best ♥


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## inge

We are all there with you, just as anxious to see what they will say...


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## sunset

Hoping Bear will be ok and is not serious.


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## A1Malinois

Brave said:


> Still at the vet. Bear did not like being here. He growled at the doctor!!! He was very tense during the exam but the vet thought she felt some inflammation in the knees. X-rays are ordered. She wants to run X-rays before ordering a full blood work-up. Bear had to be sedated for the X-Rays. Most heart wrenching part of the whole thing. The techs said he took longer than normal to go down. They didn't want me touching him as the sedation took hold but he freaked out when he couldn't feel or see me, so he laid between my legs on the floor with his head on my thigh and a towel over his eyes. His body kept jerking and jerking... Like your leg does when your falling asleep. I feel like such a horrible person right now. He was still awake but out of it when they took him to Radiology. I hope he isn't scared. They said I can keep a copy of the X-Rays, so if I can get my scanner at home working, I'll try to post them.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Oh Gosh, I know how this feels mine didnt handle the drugs well when they knocked him out for his knee. When they did the xrays a few months later I asked I be there he was much calmer. I hope the xrays come back okay I know the feeling I was crying in the waiting room I had to step outside I was such a wreck I know how you feel! Hugs!


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## Max's Dad

Hoping that Bear is okay and that there is nothing serious going on.


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## Brave

Bear and I are FINALLY home. The good news is his hips are AMAZING!!!! If I can figure out how to open this stupid CD and access the files, I'll be happy to show y'all. They are really tight, sexy hips. The vet said she was a little concerned about the fat pad on his knees not being as dark on the X-Ray then she is used to, so she is having the orthopedic surgeon look at the films to see if it might be fluid, meaning the knee is fused (????) or an ACL (???) tear. I gotta admit, my 3 hours of sleep are finally catching up to me so alot of these details are escaping me at the moment. The vet said physical palpitation while he was sedated did not reveal anything conclusive. She said both knees are a little squishy, I'm paraphrasing here, but since it effected both knees, she thinks it's just normal for Bear. At the moment, she thinks he tweaked something and is reacting to the inflamation, so we were sent home with some Rimadyl (spelling). I'll be getting a follow-up call on Sunday to let us know what they find. If the lameness continues or comes back, the vet wants to test the blood for an auto-immune disorder and run a full tick panel. I take it we're not swarming in ticks down here. 

Thank you everyone for all the thoughts and prayers and support. I'm glad we got the X-rays... I just wish we had a difinitive answer one way or the other. His gate is off on the right side, so I'm going to try to keep him hampered down as much as possible for the next few days and see how it goes. I feel a little stupid for freaking out over the equivilant of a sprain but in the end, I still am glad we went. I hope this is the end and the surgeon doesn't think we have anything wrong with a ligament or what not. 

Bear is passed and so should I. 

Again, I cannot thank y'all enough for the concern and well wishes. 

P.S. my skinny boy is 57.2 pounds! Lordy!


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## Nairb

Glad to hear it's probably going to be OK.


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## Buddy's mom forever

Thanks for the update, sending healing vibes, hope you two and DH too have calm night. And Bear to wake up "like new".


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## pshales

I'm glad that you were able to get some x-rays and start to eliminate some of the possible scenarios. I can totally relate to the worrying, self-diagnosing, etc.


Did momma get some good meds from the vet too? 

Please keep us posted!


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## GoldensGirl

It's good to see that the news thus far is positive. I remember a time when very young Charlie was limping or hobbling on three legs. His vet said he had probably sprained a toe and offered x-rays under sedation to make sure it wasn't a broken bone. I asked him what the treatment would be for a broken bone vs. a sprain. He would put a cast on a break but not on a sprain. He was utterly baffled when I insisted that he put a cast on Charlie's paw and ankle without doing x-rays. Was it a break? Who knows or cares, but my little boy went back to playing and walking on four legs immediately. 

My point is to encourage you to think creatively about causes and treatments for _pain_, which is every bit as important as bone damage, IMHO.

Holding Bear and you in my thoughts and prayers,
Lucy


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## Max's Dad

Sounds like probably nothing major. Thanks for the update.


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## Megora

I'm glad the hips are pretty.... still hoping/praying that his knees are OK! Poor boy.


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## Pixie

Just went through the entire thread! Uuuffff I was feeling stressed! Glad I had the quick version of it and did not have to wait 3 h to hear what the vet had to say!

Glad to hear about those sexy hips 

Hope this is just a case of a overlly concerned mum (aren't we all?!) and that Bear is fine, knees and all 

Let us know how he is doing and if you noticed anything unusual!

Huggs


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## inge

Great news to start the day!


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## Karen519

*Bear*

So very glad to hear that Bear is fine!
I am so very happy for you and him.
Rescue dogs do not always come with problems. Ken and I have had many and they were just as healthy as the dogs that we have gotten from a breeder.


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## Davidrob2

I'm so glad to hear Bear's hips look great. What a tremendous load off your mind and heart. I hope the Rimadyl works on any pain issues he's having and my fingers are crossed that the knees are OK too.


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## TanyaD

At the moment, she thinks he tweaked something and is reacting to the inflamation, so we were sent home with some Rimadyl (spelling). I'll be getting a follow-up call on Sunday to let us know what they find. If the lameness continues or comes back, the vet wants to test the blood for an auto-immune disorder and run a full tick panel. I take it we're not swarming in ticks down here. 


Glad to hear all is well...my dog started limping for no reason as well, and so I started following Bear's story. Just posting here as I noticed you were given Rimadyl...and all the "pano" info I read suggested very strongly to NOT give the dog that. I only started reading because I found the term "pano" here (with respect to Bear)...and know nothing about the drug...but just wanted to pass it along...just in case.

Good luck!


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## Mayve

Glad it doesn't seem to be anything serious at this point. Here's hoping they won't find anything else....Hugs to you and Bear!


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## Brave

TanyaD said:


> Glad to hear all is well...my dog started limping for no reason as well, and so I started following Bear's story. Just posting here as I noticed you were given Rimadyl...and all the "pano" info I read suggested very strongly to NOT give the dog that. I only started reading because I found the term "pano" here (with respect to Bear)...and know nothing about the drug...but just wanted to pass it along...just in case.
> 
> Good luck!


Thank you! His marrow is clear on film, so the vet doesn't think pano is a possibility, especially since his tenderness is localized in the knee region vs swelling of the femur bone. How is your pup doing?


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## Brave

Morning update....

After having a good nights rest, I woke up sick. Sore throat, stuffy/runny nose. I blame stress. Stupid cortisol. Now on to the most important part...Bear!!!

He was very stretchy this morning but only with his front end. When we first got up, I thought he was fine but after spending 30 minutes watching him walk and stand and move in general, he is still favoring his right leg. When he stands, he stands with that leg a bit away from his body. When he walks, the leg is just a little slower. I laid him down to check them, and the vet is right, it is swollen. When he got up, he shoved his knee into my face as if to say, "make it feel better?" So I gently massaged it for 20 minutes. He just ate breakfast with 1/2 a Rimadyl in it. He'll be crated again from 6:30ish until about 1 pm, but I'm going to add some more padding to the crate for him. If the doctor gives me the all clear on Sunday but he still favors the leg, I want to find an alternative vet for some unconventional treatments. The vet says I can give him glucosamine but he has no signs of arthritis or wonky joints. 

Keeping Bear quiet is going to be a handful. He is bright eyed and bushy tailed this morning. 

I would love to post his films but I cannot get them to open. The CD I got is for vet-PACS lite 2006 but is missing something to open it. I guess only other vets would have the software. Here are some not so good photos from this morning.
































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## dogloverforlife

Glad to hear he has grear hips. Still praying there is nothing else seriously wrong.

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## Sheldon's Mom

What a bummer that now you are sick. 
Hoping Bear recovers. Perhaps with rest his leg will heal.


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## jealous1

Catching up on your Bear update. You mentioned glucosamine in a way that sounds like you feel it should be used only if he has a problem. While we usually just rescue senior goldens, we do have a couple of younger ones. ALL of mine are on glucosamine, HA, and fish oil and have been from the start. I feel it is an investment in their joints and health 

Regarding alternative care, I would highly recommend if you know of someone with Class 4 laser to consider taking Bear. It is great for inflamation, healing, and for pain relief. Several of my older guys/gals go regularly. My Joey recently came up 3 legged with possible partial tear. I work some for horse vet who has laser so have been able to use regularly on him. He's doing great but is still on restrictive activity until my vet says ok which will hopefully be this week. Joey's been ready to rip and run but we are following doctor's orders to avoid surgery.


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## Claudia M

I just saw this thread - so glad Bear's hips are great and sexy! Hope his knees will be sexy too once he rests and gets done with the treatment!


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## Dexter12

I'm glad that Bear is generally ok, I know that I'd be sickly worried too.

Take care of that cold. Bed rest and oj for you.


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## CAROLINA MOM

Hope Bear is feeling better and back to his usual self soon. 

Both of my Goldens are adopted, they're AKC but not well bred and I know very little to nothing about their backgrounds. As a preventative, I have them both on Nutramax Dasuquin with MSM, my Vet recommended it. They also get Fish oil tablets daily.

Take a look at the dog food you're feeding Bear, it may contain Glucosamine/Chondrotin, if so, the amount of each.

Hope you're feeling better soon too, take care of yourself.


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## Brave

Keeping him quiet is hard. At least he has settled down enough for me to ice his knees. He is such a good boy.

















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## Bentleysmom

I've been thinking about Bear and wondering how he's doing. I can imagine how hard it is to keep him down. Bless his heart


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## Brave

No Rimadyl tonight.  I am at a loss as to how to cope. What he can and cannot do. Should I crate him at night or not. Leash always on? Can we exercise at all? 


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## GoldensGirl

Please forgive me that I can't take time to read all the posts in this thread. I add this in case it is useful for you to know about a wide variety of devices that can help you manage a dog with movement issues: http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...y-breed-standard/92648-assistive-devices.html.

I so hope that Bear will be okay. Please remember to take care of yourself so that you will be able to take care of him.


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## mudEpawz

I love your last picture and the look bear is giving you "really mom... its been a rough 24hours and now your pointing the camera at me. puhlease." 

I wish I could offer you advise. Did the vet say what Bear's limits and restrictions might be or should be? Im a paranoid freak, and always play it safe. If it was me, I would do walks but keep them quiet, light and short. I'd see how Bear reacts to them and then increase the lengths of the walks. 

Give Bear an ear rub from me and a lick from Chloe


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## Tennyson

When Mick had flare-ups I used to give him melatonin and it kept him relaxed. I also used to put a wet towel in the microwave and apply it to his leg. Then I used to gently massage the affected area. He loved it and he would look forward to his "treatments." Made me bearable as well. A little Mozart helped and so did dim lightning.


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## Buddy's mom forever

Such a sweet boy, hope you two have better day tomorrow.


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## SandyK

Just seeing your post about Bear. I am sorry you are going through this. Did your vet say when she would talk to ortho about his knees? I hope everything will be ok real soon!!


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## Max's Dad

So sorry to hear Bear is hurting. Could he have injured his leg somehow?


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## Pixie

Glad to hear he is getting better! It is hard to make them see that sometimes they do need to slow down! What about puzzle games?


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## Brave

Sorry for just up and disappearing. My cold is really hitting me hard so I hustled everyone into bed early last night. There are a gazillion and one ways he could have hurt himself. He slipped in the tub when I bathed him earlier this week. He could have taken a corner to sharply and skidded. It could have happened in the backyard where he likes to run around. He is constantly popping up and down when he is excited, even though we discourage it. 

The vet said, she will call us on Sunday. This morning (Friday, right?) he is a little stiff and the limp is a bit more pronounced so he gets a Rimadyl with breakfast. I hope with him being crated so long this week, it'll give the Rimadyl a better chance of being effective. The link GoldenGirl (i forget the name at the moment) posted about braces and apparatuses is very informative. In the thread, there is a link to physical rehab and if I can find one with hydrotherapy, maybe that is a way to strengthen his leg without hurting his knees. My co-worker says that her large breed rescue had issues with her knees too. They got the surgery but she still limps. I'm not jumping guns, because I am hoping this is a simple soft tissue injury. Goodness gracious, i am clumsy enough for both of us. Lol! I keep trying to follow doc's orders from when I had sprained my knee. Limited activity, cold or warm compresses, and wrapping it with an ace bandage. I might try the bandage. 

You know, he really is an angel. Whenever I cough or sneeze, he drops what he is doing to come make sure I am ok. 


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## OutWest

Just now catching up on Bear (and you). Hope your cold is going away fast... 

I think you were right to get him to the vet right away. It's not just a "sore knee." The symptoms could be a lot of things. I'm glad your vet is checking for Lyme etc. It's rare down there but not unheard of. And, as has been said many times on this forum, the best alarm is the one that goes off inside you when you think something is wrong with your dog. So kudos to you for getting him all checked out. I really hope it's just a little swelling and nothing that requires much more. 

And I'm with Tennyson on the melatonin--it's a big help with a lively dog who is supposed to take it easy!


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## Brave

OutWest said:


> Just now catching up on Bear (and you). Hope your cold is going away fast...
> 
> I think you were right to get him to the vet right away. It's not just a "sore knee." The symptoms could be a lot of things. I'm glad your vet is checking for Lyme etc. It's rare down there but not unheard of. And, as has been said many times on this forum, the best alarm is the one that goes off inside you when you think something is wrong with your dog. So kudos to you for getting him all checked out. I really hope it's just a little swelling and nothing that requires much more.
> 
> And I'm with Tennyson on the melatonin--it's a big help with a lively dog who is supposed to take it easy!


Do you know where I can find this melatonin? I must have missed that post. Thanks!!!


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## Tuco

Brave said:


> Do you know where I can find this melatonin? I must have missed that post. Thanks!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


You can find it in the supplement section of any store


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## OutWest

Brave said:


> Do you know where I can find this melatonin? I must have missed that post. Thanks!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


You can buy melatonin in any pharmacy... It's a human sleep aid, and a natural one. We all have it in our bodies already. If you Google it, you'll see lots of information and can find the right dosage for Bear (according to weight). In humans, it makes sleepiness, but in dogs, it makes them mellow. (sorry for the grammar... typing fast!). But you get the drift. 

I give it to mine in warm goat's milk... makes them very calm and mellow... Great for antsy puppies before bedtime (that's when I started using it! LOL). But peanut butter or any pill pocket works just fine...


----------



## Brave

Genius!!! I need to get some more fish oil and glucosomine anyways. 


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## OutWest

if you can, get the gel caps with powder in them... then you can sprinkle in milk, etc. good luck. evidently it works for about 80% of dogs..hope Bear is one of them.


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## Brave

This morning he was a spitfire full of energy. The past 3-4 days with little to no exercise is taking its toll on his sanity. For the first time in the 5 months, we've had him, he put his mouth on cords to chew. He had never never never been destructive before this. I take that back, we had a minor incident with a wall at 3ish months. We're out of Nylabones and at the moment, he didn't want his marrow bone or antler. I took him outside and he went nuts, running all over the place... But he kept his back feet together.  I've never seen him do that. So, I decided to get some more chew toys and more supplements. 

We came home with another tub of fish oil pills, some glucosomine/chronditan/msm pills and the blessed melatonin (3mg). I gave him the melatonin about 15 minutes ago. Idk how soon it'll take effect. 

The limp isn't as pronounced today. Maybe it's healing. I haven't given a Rimadyl in over 24 hours. 


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## Brave

Looks like Bear is nice and sleepy. 










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## OutWest

Brave said:


> Looks like Bear is nice and sleepy.
> 
> View attachment 164426
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Great--glad he's responding. Hard to keep a good puppy down.


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## Jennifer1

Could you do some obedience training or something that wouldn't be hard on his knee but could stimulate his mind? That might help with his cabin fever.


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## Brave

He has been harassing the cats lately... Not to eat them but because he wants to play. So I slipped a leash on him (looped the clip to make a slip collar) and we discovered something. We've been working on heel so much lately that as soon as the leash went on, he heeled semi-perfectly without the command!!!! 

I don't want him using his leg at all (crazy, right?). He finally conked out for a few hours. 









His ears have been kinda gunky lately, so I put him through the ringer with grooming activities. Flushing his ears, drying his ears, brushing, trimming his feet (they are so gorgeous now!), trimming his nails with a grinder (first time at home because I don't trust the retail groomers to be careful with his knee), trimming his hock (butchered it, really.). Since his limp seems to be going away, I plan on taking him around the block later today. I figure, if I keep things gentle, no fetch or tug, I should be ok. 

He'll get another metalonin plus a Rimadyl with dinner. I don't think he is in pain, but I would like the anti inflammatory properties. 

I'm thinking of teaching shake.... But he is awful paw-y lately so I don't want to encourage that. 


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## Brave

Bear slept from 7 until about 5 minutes ago. He crawling into my lap on the couch to snuggle about an hour ago when I noticed he was panting an awful lot for just sleeping, so I sent my DH off to find a thermometer and some lube. I remember the vet telling me to watch his temperature because one of the options would have him running a distinct fever. Well, he took that like a champ! No fever, his temp is at an even 101°. 

The melatonin seems to make him dream more. He is sighing and giving off little woofs here and there. So cute!!!!


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## goldy1

Brave - 

I just caught up on what you have been going through the last several days. I feel so bad you've had all this worry!

We had a similar situation with Chance a few years ago except it was his front leg. Twice I witnessed it "give way" under him but when never when anyone else was around to see it. Then, later my friend saw it too. We both just looked at each other. Neither of us could figure out why or what exactly happened. When Chance got back on all 4 feet he walked fine and didn't favor it.

Anyhow, I'll brief this up. Nothing was found by his regular vet or the orthopedic specialist. In fact, the orthopedic vet said Chance was in great shape (his words "textbook") and I should stop worrying unless I saw the problem again. I never did.

We concluded that he may have injured a nerve in agility when he took a hard landing on the table. It's the only thing I could think of that happened prior to his "collapses" but it will always remain a mystery.
He has been fine ever since.

I hope Bear has no more incidents and you can get some rest. I will be anxious to hear what happens when you get your call today. (Sunday)

Fingers crossed all is well!

P.S. Chance is Lyme positive but is checked 2X yearly so we knew it wasn't that but that could be sympton that Lyme is rearing it's ugly head.


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## pshales

Thinking of you and Bear today, and sorry that you've been sick on top of it all. 

The melatonin is a brilliant idea, and I'm so glad to read that it's working!

I hope you get a clear picture today of what's going on, an that its nothing serious.


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## mudEpawz

checking in to see how mr. bear is doing


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## Brave

I've been away from home all day today, helping a friend, so DH is taking care of Bear. I'm sure he is fine, but probably overexercising since DH is doing yard work today.  

I'll fill in more once I'm back home. What I would give for the cold bottle of Aloe Vera that is in my fridge. 


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## Brave

Spoke to the vet. The orthopedic surgeon feels that both his knees are fused (have fusions) and wants to do a joint tap. So we're looking at $59 for an outhouse CBC, $88 sedation, $70 joint tap procedure, $130 cytology and lastly a $200 tick panel. Oh boy!!! His limp is semi pronounced at the moment - even though he has been inside 90% of the day. The vet wants this all done ASAP, but between money and schedules, it might have to wait until next week. 

I want to do some more research on fusions and joint taps, too. 

The plus side? Today my girlfriend treated me to breakfast and lunch and bought me a pretty new eyebrow barbell. Now, my sunburned, and exhausted body is going to take a nap (gosh I feel old!!!). 

If anyone has any info on fusions in knees, I would greatly appreciate it. Once I start researching, I will try to post as much info in case someone finds our story. 


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## Brave

Oh dear god! I am such a dingbat..... She'd said effusion. Blah. That should help with research. Thanks for the save Google!!!!


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## Megora

Did the vet say luxated patellas?


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## HolDaisy

Have only just seen this thread. Just to say that we are thinking of Bear and sending him lots of hugs!


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## Brave

Megora said:


> Did the vet say luxated patellas?


Not that i can recall. His patellas looked normal on the X-rays. 


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## Max's Dad

Just re-read your comments, Jen. Vet suspects fluid (water) on the knee. From what you have said, Bear is somewhat better. I remember him being very active and busy at our meet-up a while back. But he has grown a lot since then. Maybe a combination of the rapid growth and a slight injury is causing him some problems with his knees. Maybe give it a little time to heal up before doing all these extensive (and expensive) tests. Plus tick type illness is pretty unusual down here in Southern California.

Just a thought . . .


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## Brave

You know when I said Bear as driving me crazy? Nothing compares to today. He is all mouthy and teeth and popping up and down. Even with 3 mg melatonin 3x a day!!!!!!! I took him for a quick walk around the block (no longer than 1/4 mile) which didn't put a dent in his energy levels, but I didn't want to push it. He is getting kinda spooky around the neighborhood, which concerns me. I think I want to take him to the beach and maybe get him swimming....something low impact. Sand is low I pact, right?? His gait is still a bit stiff, but no limp. He gets up funny but he is getting up. I am hoping Bear will self regulate when we're in the backyard. 


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## Buddy's mom forever

He is just so sweet! Hope he is on the road for full recovery, I am glad limp is gone!


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## mudEpawz

swimming might be a good way of burning off some energy and being easier for him then runnin and playing. Maybe grab him an antler to shew away on. I know 'chewies' keep Chloe busy.


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## A1Malinois

Brave said:


> You know when I said Bear as driving me crazy? Nothing compares to today. He is all mouthy and teeth and popping up and down. Even with 3 mg melatonin 3x a day!!!!!!! I took him for a quick walk around the block (no longer than 1/4 mile) which didn't put a dent in his energy levels, but I didn't want to push it. He is getting kinda spooky around the neighborhood, which concerns me. I think I want to take him to the beach and maybe get him swimming....something low impact. Sand is low I pact, right?? His gait is still a bit stiff, but no limp. He gets up funny but he is getting up. I am hoping Bear will self regulate when we're in the backyard.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


If tick diseases are not common for your area, I would skip that test...for now. If you cannot figure it out, I would do the tick panel. I would do one thing at a time which may save you a bit of cash to treat whatever is wrong if its found with the first test. Just my opinion on what I would do.


----------



## Brave

Thanks!!! We gave him a brand new jumbo nylabone last night and he has already gone trough half of it. I took it away and gave him his antler and marrow bone instead. Right now, he actually has his antler under his marrow bone and he is trying to chew them both at the same time. 

We plan on doing the CBC panel first and the the joint tap and maybe the tick panel. I'm wondering if I should seek a second opinion. 


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## A1Malinois

Brave said:


> Thanks!!! We gave him a brand new jumbo nylabone last night and he has already gone trough half of it. I took it away and gave him his antler and marrow bone instead. Right now, he actually has his antler under his marrow bone and he is trying to chew them both at the same time.
> 
> We plan on doing the CBC panel first and the the joint tap and maybe the tick panel. I'm wondering if I should seek a second opinion.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


You could always seek a second opinion or possibly do what you feel is right. I would do one test at a time. Start with a CBC, sedation and joint tap or whatever it is they are doing. Since its not likely tick related, I would leave that out for now but keep it as an option for later. If he was mine based on the information supplied I would do it the way I suggested with my own. However here, tick disease is not rare but not popular so it would be my next step. If the tap shows nothing then you have ruled that out and then do another test. If you do 5 tests, and only 1 reveals the issue then you have wasted money on the others when that could be used for treatment.


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## Thalie

My opinion is that before considering any major surgery (and joint surgery of any kind is major surgery), it is a good idea to get a second opinion. 

You are out the the woods about his hips which is a great thing. What you are left with is a fuzzy something happening in his knees. Are they noticeably swollen ? Tearing both ACLs at the same time in such a young dog is unlikely imo unless there was a fast run with several hard turns. Even then, both going the same day does not ring true. As I read through the thread, I've noticed that you are giving the Rymadil on and off. I am not a big fan of NSAIDs but, since they are anti-inflammatories, I think that to be truly efficient they need to be given on a regular schedule in acute cases. Before going all out with tests, I would give the Rimadyl on a strict schedule for a whole week and couple that with strict restrictions (all potties on leash, very short and sedate walks, on leash or contained in the house so there is no running or jumping). 

As far as further testing I would go with the joint tap first if the problem persists after the week of enforced medication and rest.

Lots of hopeful thoughts for Bear.


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## Brave

Thalie said:


> My opinion is that before considering any major surgery (and joint surgery of any kind is major surgery), it is a good idea to get a second opinion.
> 
> You are out the the woods about his hips which is a great thing. What you are left with is a fuzzy something happening in his knees. Are they noticeably swollen ? Tearing both ACLs at the same time in such a young dog is unlikely imo unless there was a fast run with several hard turns. Even then, both going the same day does not ring true. As I read through the thread, I've noticed that you are giving the Rymadil on and off. I am not a big fan of NSAIDs but, since they are anti-inflammatories, I think that to be truly efficient they need to be given on a regular schedule in acute cases. Before going all out with tests, I would give the Rimadyl on a strict schedule for a whole week and couple that with strict restrictions (all potties on leash, very short and sedate walks, on leash or contained in the house so there is no running or jumping).
> 
> As far as further testing I would go with the joint tap first if the problem persists after the week of enforced medication and rest.
> 
> Lots of hopeful thoughts for Bear.


Thanks!!!!! As far as I can tell, his knees do not feel swollen, but I don't really have anything to compare them too. They feel the same to me... So either neither are swollen or both are swollen. He runs fast in the backyard and if we're playing fetch, he overshoots the ball and turns fast to grab it. We have restricted his activity outside up until yesterday. He is super active and energetic. You said no jumping. So no allowing him on the couch or in bed at night? He seems to want to keep getting up and down and in and out of places without a second thought. He was so bouncy yesterday, i lost my temper and had to walk away for a time out. It's been almost a week since the incident and I think we've only given him 3 doses of rimadyl (we were given 14 doses). 

I think I will schedule an appt with the same vet (or the orthopedic she consulted with) for a follow-up and see if she feels the knees are still inflamed. If she does, we will run the cbc panel and joint tap. Depending on what those show, we might seek a second opinion (most definitely if surgery is recommended.)

He acts normal so I don't know if I am overreacting / worrying. I keep thinking about how stoic dogs can be at times. 


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## mudEpawz

im glad to hear that bear feels fine  

When my parent's lab got spayed we ended up "switching" dogs since Chloe is fine staying there and they have two active dogs so it only made sense for her to stay here while she was healing. OH. MY WORD. She was fine for the first hour but then after that she was insane!! She kept trying to get around the barrier and use the stairs, she kept jumping up and down on different sofas, she almost jumped onto the kitchen table!!! I tried anything you can think of besides physically tying the dog to the post to keep her calm. She ended up splitting two stiches, had to get re-stiched and take another week of "R & R". After that she spent alot of quality time in the crate. So I totally get how frustrating it can be trying to keep an active dog calm!


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## drofen

mudEpawz said:


> im glad to hear that bear feels fine
> 
> When my parent's lab got spayed we ended up "switching" dogs since Chloe is fine staying there and they have two active dogs so it only made sense for her to stay here while she was healing. OH. MY WORD. She was fine for the first hour but then after that she was insane!! She kept trying to get around the barrier and use the stairs, she kept jumping up and down on different sofas, she almost jumped onto the kitchen table!!! I tried anything you can think of besides physically tying the dog to the post to keep her calm. She ended up splitting two stiches, had to get re-stiched and take another week of "R & R". After that she spent alot of quality time in the crate. So I totally get how frustrating it can be trying to keep an active dog calm!


So glad our puppy came with dangly parts.


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## mudEpawz

drofen said:


> So glad our puppy came with dangly parts.


:--smirk:
haha thats too funny! My experiences with spays have been well... interesting. With Chloe's spay, she turned out to be allergic to the stiches :doh: It took her over two weeks to heal... poor puppy. My friend had her dog snipped and he was back to normal within a few days. Next time I want a male! lol


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## Karen519

*Bear*



Brave said:


> Thanks!!!!! As far as I can tell, his knees do not feel swollen, but I don't really have anything to compare them too. They feel the same to me... So either neither are swollen or both are swollen. He runs fast in the backyard and if we're playing fetch, he overshoots the ball and turns fast to grab it. We have restricted his activity outside up until yesterday. He is super active and energetic. You said no jumping. So no allowing him on the couch or in bed at night? He seems to want to keep getting up and down and in and out of places without a second thought. He was so bouncy yesterday, i lost my temper and had to walk away for a time out. It's been almost a week since the incident and I think we've only given him 3 doses of rimadyl (we were given 14 doses).
> 
> I think I will schedule an appt with the same vet (or the orthopedic she consulted with) for a follow-up and see if she feels the knees are still inflamed. If she does, we will run the cbc panel and joint tap. Depending on what those show, we might seek a second opinion (most definitely if surgery is recommended.)
> 
> He acts normal so I don't know if I am overreacting / worrying. I keep thinking about how stoic dogs can be at times.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Sounds like a good plan.


----------



## mudEpawz

Hows the bear doing?!


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## Brave

mudEpawz said:


> Hows the bear doing?!


His limp is back.  he is starting to hold his right foot away from his body and putting less weight on it. I am working 10-12 hour days this week and DH doesn't want to take him without me, so I am going to try to get an appointment with the ortho vet as soon as possible (schedules permitting). Idk if i gave him too much freedom on soft ground (backyard) because the limp just showed up this morning after our dawn potty break. He had been running wide, soft circles in the backyard last night for 3-5 minutes and this morning for 5-10 minutes. The melatonin only works in the morning and afternoon. In the evenings he is a nightmare to calm down. We are cutting his food back since he isn't getting nearly enough exercise. What a nightmare. I just wish everything was back to normal. 


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## drofen

Brave said:


> His limp is back.  he is starting to hold his right foot away from his body and putting less weight on it. I am working 10-12 hour days this week and DH doesn't want to take him without me, so I am going to try to get an appointment with the ortho vet as soon as possible (schedules permitting). Idk if i gave him too much freedom on soft ground (backyard) because the limp just showed up this morning after our dawn potty break. He had been running wide, soft circles in the backyard last night for 3-5 minutes and this morning for 5-10 minutes. The melatonin only works in the morning and afternoon. In the evenings he is a nightmare to calm down. We are cutting his food back since he isn't getting nearly enough exercise. What a nightmare. I just wish everything was back to normal.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Just a suggestion, so take it for what it's worth, but has he been examined by an animal chiropractor? Some of what you're describing sounds like it may a nerve issue.


----------



## Bentleysmom

Poor Bear! I hope you get to the bottom of this soon. It's so incredibly hard to watch them in pain.


----------



## Brave

My plan is to re-evaluate with the doctor that my vet consulted with and then seek a second opinion with a holistic vet. 


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## OutWest

Poor Bear! And poor you and DH. Sending good thoughts to you all... Hope you get answers, solvable ones, soon.


----------



## Brave

Thanks you guys!!! I finally got to speak with the orthopedic surgeon's assistant. She says we can drop off Bear and do the CBC and joint tap as early as Monday.... But i want to see the dr first for a hands-on exam (which this doctor hasn't done yet since she was a consult) and the earliest we can do that is April 22nd. So i scheduled it and asked the doctor to call me with laid out restrictions of what I can and cannot do with Bear given we have to wait almost a month. I've called the most highly recommend holistic practice I could find and am waiting to hear back on when we can be seen for a second opinion. 

Wish us luck!!


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----------



## OutWest

Brave said:


> Thanks you guys!!! I finally got to speak with the orthopedic surgeon's assistant. She says we can drop off Bear and do the CBC and joint tap as early as Monday.... But i want to see the dr first for a hands-on exam (which this doctor hasn't done yet since she was a consult) and the earliest we can do that is April 22nd. So i scheduled it and asked the doctor to call me with laid out restrictions of what I can and cannot do with Bear given we have to wait almost a month. I've called the most highly recommend holistic practice I could find and am waiting to hear back on when we can be seen for a second opinion.
> 
> Wish us luck!!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Luck-wishing coming your way... 

When you get in to the holistic vet, ask about acupuncture... might not solve the issue but would probably give him some relief. (although you don't want him feeling too perky and running etc... )


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## mudEpawz

Oh no... I was really hoping Bear would be feeling better. poor guy 
Im sending a bunch of good vibes out your way.


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## Brave

Thanks guys!!! I am miffed because the vet hasn't called me back yet about activity restrictions, at-home therapies and ocean swimming as low-impact, high resistance exercise (to name what is running through my head right now). Argh!!!!!

I think I am going to set up the X-pen and barricade him into the LR until I hear back. And start him back on Rimadyl back-to-back for the rest of the doses and crate him at night (as much as I hate it!!!!) or barricade him into a corner of the bedroom and hope he doesn't climb onto the bed to get out. 

I've been googling PT for knee effusions and found one about passive extensions which I will be trying. I need to search the forum for more but I haven't gotten around to it yet. 

I am thinking of getting a brace for him until we see the vet in a month but idk if that is wasting money we could use to diagnosis. 

Your support means a lot... Especially given how many members are going through worse problems than we are. I feel like I should be grateful its just a knee issue. 

Hugs to everyone!!!


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## Karen519

*Call*



Brave said:


> Thanks guys!!! I am miffed because the vet hasn't called me back yet about activity restrictions, at-home therapies and ocean swimming as low-impact, high resistance exercise (to name what is running through my head right now). Argh!!!!!
> 
> I think I am going to set up the X-pen and barricade him into the LR until I hear back. And start him back on Rimadyl back-to-back for the rest of the doses and crate him at night (as much as I hate it!!!!) or barricade him into a corner of the bedroom and hope he doesn't climb onto the bed to get out.
> 
> I've been googling PT for knee effusions and found one about passive extensions which I will be trying. I need to search the forum for more but I haven't gotten around to it yet.
> 
> I am thinking of getting a brace for him until we see the vet in a month but idk if that is wasting money we could use to diagnosis.
> 
> Your support means a lot... Especially given how many members are going through worse problems than we are. I feel like I should be grateful its just a knee issue.
> 
> Hugs to everyone!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Call the vet back, but keeping him quiet until you hear more makes alot of sense. Praying Bear is o.k. - he is a beautiful boy!!


----------



## Karen519

*Saying out of love*



Brave said:


> Thanks you guys!!! I finally got to speak with the orthopedic surgeon's assistant. She says we can drop off Bear and do the CBC and joint tap as early as Monday.... But i want to see the dr first for a hands-on exam (which this doctor hasn't done yet since she was a consult) and the earliest we can do that is April 22nd. So i scheduled it and asked the doctor to call me with laid out restrictions of what I can and cannot do with Bear given we have to wait almost a month. I've called the most highly recommend holistic practice I could find and am waiting to hear back on when we can be seen for a second opinion.
> 
> Wish us luck!!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I hope you know I'm saying this because I care, but April 22nd is A VERY LONG time to wait for an appointment with Bear walking with a limp. Can you take some hours off of work and work later another day?


----------



## Davidrob2

I'm just catching up on Bear's limp. I'm so sorry it's back and he isn't feeling well. I hope a second opinion can bring some clearer answers.


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## Brave

Karen519 said:


> I hope you know I'm saying this because I care, but April 22nd is A VERY LONG time to wait for an appointment with Bear walking with a limp. Can you take some hours off of work and work later another day?


April 22nd was the first availability with the orthopedic surgeon. I am 100% ok with taking a day off or a half day to get him to the vet. I'm reaching out to a holistic vet for a second opinion. I haven't heard back from them yet but i am hoping they can see us sooner. 

I ask this with the most respect and compassion... Is it wrong for me to want to see the orthopedic vet and get an exam with her before having techs sedate Bear without me and run hundreds of dollars of tests that we might not need? The surgeon did a consult on an X-ray only. The exam was conducted by the attending vet, and i don't think it translated well over notes. I would be more comfortable if the orthopedic surgeon could exam Bear herself and tell me what she thinks is wrong. Ya know? 

If the holistic vet cannot see him soon, I will reach out to a different orthopedic vet for a second opinion. 

It kills me to see him limping.... But at this point I feel like my hands are tied. I honestly, don't understand why the orthopedic vet cannot see us sooner nor why she hasn't called me back yet. 




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## Karen519

*Brave*

Brave

The only thing I can think of is to call her and beg her to move it up.


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## xoerika620xo

Just catching up with bear. I am so sorry your going through this. I would get a second opinion and then go by that instead of performing test after test. I wish you guys the best, and bear is in my prayers. Hugs and kisses from chester and I. stay strong, i know it has to be the hardest thing seeing him limping. I remember when chester was just a little little pup and he went through a diarrhea and throwing up episode i felt so helpless seeing him like that, it made me feel horrible.


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## Brave

I am sorry Karen. I sound like an ungrateful, little beast in that last post. I shouldn't have taken my frustrations about the situation out on you. Please accept my most sincere apologies. The ortho vet only works Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, so in the morning I am going to beg to have an office visit on Monday. 


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## Brave

Got home. DH said "no limp today" but when I watch him, I see it. He sneaked past me outside and that is when we really saw it. 

I gave him the Rimadyl and split his dinner into a) puzzle treat ball and b) frozen in a kong. So far he has been quiet most of the evening. He swallowed his pills without being wrapped in a hot dog. I've barricaded him into our living room which is approx. 7x7. He jumped over the back of the couch to get out once. (Doh!). 

We sat down and did some passive leg flexes. His left knee felt a little loose/wobbly and he jerked when we extended his right leg fully. He panted quite a bit but after the first minute, no more panting and he seemed to enjoy it. I tried to ice his knees but he did not like that. 

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=uXvTuCZKXMY&desktop_uri=/watch?v=uXvTuCZKXMY

PT for a possible ACL Tear
http://pt4animals.blogspot.com/2010/04/dog-with-possible-acl-tear-what-can-i.html

Some website (sources and credibility unknown)
http://pt4animals.blogspot.com/2010/04/dog-with-possible-acl-tear-what-can-i.html

Bear this morning waiting for his "yay mom is gone!" Crate toys and treats. 








Break during flexes








He still lays down like he always has. 









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## jealous1

No, you're not a bad person for wanting to talk to ortho vet first. I work for an equine vet and have heard him say on more than one occasion that x-rays can be deceiving--definitely feel that they need to have hands on Bear. Doesn't make sense to waste a lot of money on tests if not needed that could be applied to treatment.


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## OutWest

Had a message all written and then the iPad battery died...:uhoh:

I'll be brief...be careful with doing exercises off the Internet since you don't have a diagnosis yet. They could injure him further...I bet swimming is safest bet if you can find a warm pool...

See if you get to another ortho vet sooner...don't blame you for not wanting to wait while Bear suffers...is ther a vet school nearby? Often a great place to see a specialist...ask your vet if you can give him Benadryl...makes most dogs very sleepy.

Must say Bear looks quite handsome in his crate. I feel so bad that he's sore...


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## Mirinde

Weird question but is a pet massage therapist an option while you wait? I would also be wary of PT exercises at home-- I have a fair bit of experience with PT in my personal life for serious injuries (I think more people have had PT than not!) and even when PT is being performed correctly, it can make things feel worse before they feel better...which could make it hard for you to gauge what is helpful for Bear. A massage therapist might be a great in between option...someone knowledgeable in anatomy/physiology/injury treatment that can help you relieve some of Bear's pain without really attempting to "work" on the problem itself and risk causing more harm. I'm sure you are being very careful, so this is just a suggestion you may not have thought of yet. I'm about to start physical therapy school with the intention of working on animals so I've learned there are a LOT of options out there that never would have occurred to me before!

Have you tried a warm compress instead of ice? Warmth might be especially helpful if it's cartilage or bone related as cold can exasperate bone/joint pain

Really hope Bear starts feeling better  I'm sure this wait is agonizing for you.


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## Karen519

*Brave*



Brave said:


> I am sorry Karen. I sound like an ungrateful, little beast in that last post. I shouldn't have taken my frustrations about the situation out on you. Please accept my most sincere apologies. The ortho vet only works Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, so in the morning I am going to beg to have an office visit on Monday.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Brave: There is NO NEED TO APOLOGIZE!! I didn't think you sounded ungrateful.
I was just concerned that waiting, whatever it is that is going on will get worse.
Good idea to try to move it up to Monday, if possible.


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## Karen519

*Bear*

Stopping in to check on Bear!


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## Bentleysmom

I'm with you. I think I would be scouting out another ortho. A month is a verrrrryyy long time to try and keep Bear down. {{{Hugs}}}


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## Davidrob2

Just checking in on Bear this evening. I hope he is feeling better.


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## Heart O'Gold

Also thinking about Bear. I hope he's feeling better and that you get some good answers soon.


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## *Laura*

Also checking in to see how your Bear is doing. He looks so adorable in the crate picture I love his sweet face.


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## Brave

Todays losses on the forum have really gotten to me. After work, i had to spend some time loving up on Bear and reminding myself to be grateful for his antics. This is day 2 of extreme restriction (imposed by me). So far he has jumped over the back of the couch three times when I wasn't in the room and twice with me right there before I could stop him. He busted out of his x-pen barricade once this morning and got a full circle around the house playing (chasing really) with the cat. When i got home, i had a good long cry in the backyard with Bear who with his "omg your home" prance. His limp is extremely noticeable when he moves into a trot (or faster if he slips away from me). He is putting weight on both legs when he stands and the only evidence of an issue is when you watch the roll of his gait. He does not appreciate the restrictions and sudden rule changes. He keeps giving me the "gosh mom!!" sad/pouty face. We're two back-to-back doses in on rimadyl. He'll get his third in a row in about an hour. 

I called the vet and they pushed me off onto the surgeon's assistance. I had to leave a message where i politely and firmly asked to be seen on Monday or Tuesday or be given a referral to another doctor because I am uncomfortable waiting 3ish weeks. I also reminded her I need clear restrictions (which I asked for yesterday morning). Still no call back. 

I called two specialty hospitals (one of them was a teaching clinic) but they all required referrals from my vet. I finally found a clinic with "an orthopedic vet on site 7 days a week!!" I called and the soonest they could schedule me is Tuesday, April 2nd at 5 pm. I changed my shift around so I get off at 3:30 that day because it's about an hour drive to the clinic. 

I got a call back from the holistic vet this afternoon and they are scheduling new patients 2 weeks out. I am waiting for confirmation of an appointment time. 


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## drofen

Brave said:


> Todays losses on the forum have really gotten to me. After work, i had to spend some time loving up on Bear and reminding myself to be grateful for his antics. This is day 2 of extreme restriction (imposed by me). So far he has jumped over the back of the couch three times when I wasn't in the room and twice with me right there before I could stop him. He busted out of his x-pen barricade once this morning and got a full circle around the house playing (chasing really) with the cat. When i got home, i had a good long cry in the backyard with Bear who with his "omg your home" prance. His limp is extremely noticeable when he moves into a trot (or faster if he slips away from me). He is putting weight on both legs when he stands and the only evidence of an issue is when you watch the roll of his gait. He does not appreciate the restrictions and sudden rule changes. He keeps giving me the "gosh mom!!" sad/pouty face. We're two back-to-back doses in on rimadyl. He'll get his third in a row in about an hour.
> 
> I called the vet and they pushed me off onto the surgeon's assistance. I had to leave a message where i politely and firmly asked to be seen on Monday or Tuesday or be given a referral to another doctor because I am uncomfortable waiting 3ish weeks. I also reminded her I need clear restrictions (which I asked for yesterday morning). Still no call back.
> 
> I called two specialty hospitals (one of them was a teaching clinic) but they all required referrals from my vet. I finally found a clinic with "an orthopedic vet on site 7 days a week!!" I called and the soonest they could schedule me is Tuesday, April 2nd at 5 pm. I changed my shift around so I get off at 3:30 that day because it's about an hour drive to the clinic.
> 
> I got a call back from the holistic vet this afternoon and they are scheduling new patients 2 weeks out. I am waiting for confirmation of an appointment time.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Hiya Jen:

I can really sense your frustration and desperation in this post today. I don't have any spectacular advice to give, but I wanted to say to hang in there. You're doing the best you can to take care of him, and that's all anybody could ever expect of you. Just know that we care, and give Bear a big hug and kiss from us here on the forum.


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## OutWest

Hi, Jen, So glad you were able to get an earlier appointment. I can hear your frustration and worry all the way up the length of the state. You're doing the very best you can, so give yourself a pat on the back. 

If you can do it without Bear having to walk long distances, perhaps you could get him swimming this weekend? That would tire him out and would have the least chance of hurting him. 

I hope you saw my mention of Benadryl in an earlier post. I give it to Tucker for his itchy paws and it makes him sleepy (that's why I am switching to Claritin soon to avoid the sleepiness issue). Thousands of human parents give it to their children to make them sleepy when they really really need them to be, so perhaps you could try that at night... I know it feels like you're loading your boy up with drugs, but it's all for a good cause. Once he's all better, you better watch out though! You're going to have a tornado on your hands. LOL


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## Thalie

Jen,

You are doing very good things for Bear; go to the Tuesday, April 2, appointment which will give you a new set of eyes by a specialist to look at Bear. While I can be 100% wrong, I still thing chances are Bear's limp are "growing pains" limp but you are right to want him seen by a ortho vet the sooner the better.

I hope you find the answer to Bear's limp early next week. In the meantime, extreme restrictions mean that Bear does not get out of his crate unless he has a leash on and somebody attached to the other end. He can walk to go pee, poop, drink, and eat. That is it. All people interacting with him need to be on the same page. It is hard; it makes one feel guilty not to let the dog be a dog just for a minute or so but if what is needed, it must be done. 

Wishing Bear a No Big Deal final diagnosis. Belly rubs to him and hugs to you.


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## mudEpawz

Ive been reading and checking in on Bear. I wish I had more advise to offer you. If I was in your position I would want a second opinion. I think its great that you were able to get an appointment on Tuesday. Bentleysmom is right, waiting a month would be so hard with an energetic puppy. Ive been trying to think of ways to keep Bear calm but tire him out. I think swimming is a good idea. Are there any doggy pools in the area? Mini training sessions - pracising sit, stay and downs. Puzzle games. Keeping you guys in my thoughts and hoping for the best!


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## Brave

I did finally get a call back from the surgeon's assistant. She says the surgeon is overbooked and the only reason a drop-off can be seen on Monday is because the surgeon would squeeze him in between surgeries but to set aside time for an office visit in the morning would keep her in surgery until two in the morning. (Swear to god that is verbatim!). She said she can put me down as an on-call appointment but that means that i could be called at any moment and must be able to get to the clinic in 15 minutes or less. Weekend? Sure! But no, the offer stands for Monday only and my work already told me I cannot take any time off or switch my hours around that day because we are down people and it is our busiest day of the week. Aside from that I work in the city, more than 15 minutes away. The surgeon is on vacation the rest of the week. She asked about 4/8 or 4/9 and I told her i need to know what time so i can clear it with my job. But she doesn't know and doesn't want to go to the surgeon until I commit to being on-call. I told her, during the week, i cannot be on-call because I have no way of dropping everything at work without notice and being to the clinic within 15 minutes. She is frustrated. I am frustrated. We are a big glob of frustration. 

I just put 50 mg of Benedryl in him. He takes pills dry, like DH. Hopefully he chills because he is driving me crazy.... And if one more person i vent to IRL tells me sarcastically, "well, you wanted a puppy." I might do/say something i might regret. Bear is normally such an amazing boy and i understand that none of this is his fault but oh boy do i need him worn out. The assistant said to walk him on the beach LEASHED and to take him swimming LEASHED..... So now i am on a mission to find a dog-friendly pool to use. I don't feel comfortable swimming at the beach leashed...... Too many things could go wrong. I found some rehab centers but it is $75 for a 30 min session. My wallet is already screaming from the pinching I've been doing. 

You guys are right. I am extremely frustrated. It feels so petty given the burdens others face but it is there. I feel emotional, sad, and angry. I feel like i am letting Bear down by not being able to fix this right now. I feel like a bad puppy parent. Like maybe i am the worst possible owner he could have picked. I feel like i am not doing enough and yet i am at a loss as to what more to do. I feel like every thing i do in this situation is wrong somehow. Second guessing myself at every turn. I feel guilty for getting frustrated with him. I feel guilty for feeling as if i cannot handle/deal with this. I feel stupid because even though what i am feeling is real...... It sounds very petty and overdramatic. I am angry at myself for not being stronger... For not being able to handle this without melting down. /emotional ravings

Hopefully the second opinion on Tuesday will shed some light on the situation. I really really really (beyond words!!!) appreciate y'alls support and words of encouragement. 

<3


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## Thalie

You are doing everything right for him. You will get him seen as soon as you can; you do your best to keep him contained and content at the same time which is no small feast with a 7 months old puppy. Do not beat yourself up on things you have no control of.

True confession : I drugged my Lab with Benadryl (and vet approval - 75 mg 3 times a day make for a woozy Labby) for almost six weeks after she destroyed her ACL surgery site (very systematic opening of the incision resulting in a raw butterflied leg) while being constrained in a pen and wearing two cones. I cried every morning after dosing her because I had to leave her to go to work and did not know what I would find back when I came home for lunch and I did not know what more I could do except to conk her in the head with a brick every morning. Like you, I could not just leave everything at a minute's notice to go check on her or bring her somewhere. So I did the best I could. It was tense, it was a roller-coaster; five years later she is fit as a fiddle. 

You will go through this; Bear will be fine.


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## Bentleysmom

I agree, you have nothing to feel bad about, you are doing the absolute best you can do and that's all you can do. You know Bear doesn't want you to feel guilty, he loves you unconditionally. Give yourself a break, you are a great mommy! ♥


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## Mirinde

Rescue Remedy is another calming option that you can give on top of benedryl, there is no harm in adding it on top of other medications. Zyrtec knocks Iorek out more than Benedryl for some bizarre reason so if Benedryl doesn't work, it's okay to branch out. 

I'm wracking my brain for other safe sedating options OR options that would exhaust him. I mentioned this in Lush's paw post the other day but it might be worth mentioning again... we had an old poster (Daisy's Mom?) who used a kiddie pool filled with water and live goldfish as a game for her furbaby while she was recovering from a serious surgery or injury (I forget which)... that'd be something new and different that would get him using his brain! Hide and Seek in the house? Kong Wobbler? Even if you have to load that sucker up with tiny veggie pieces 5x a day, it'd be better than him driving you nuts.

You are doing a good job. You are enough of a puppy mom. Remember to take care of yourself... it's okay to take a break from Bear to make sure YOU are alright. Leave him with hubby (with written instructions if that's what it takes to make you feel okay leaving him!) and go get some icecream and read a magazine for an hour. You sound exhausted, you're allowed to rest. It'll help you be coherent and ready to process whatever they have to tell you on Tuesday. The last thing you need is to be trying to juggle your bank account on an empty energy account!


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## Brave

Thanks guys! I have more on my plate than just Bear at the moment. He is just the delicious buttercream icing. Bear has finally conked out. Thank god!!! This weekend is set to be a fray of activity and unpleasantries. I promise i am doing my best to take care of myself. 


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## drofen

Brave said:


> Like maybe i am the worst possible owner he could have picked.


But _he_ DID pick you. And it is not up to us to question that choice. All we can do is try our very best to honor that relationship, nobody can do any more than that. 

:wave:


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## Davidrob2

Brave said:


> I feel like i am letting Bear down by not being able to fix this right now. I feel like a bad puppy parent. Like maybe i am the worst possible owner he could have picked. I feel like i am not doing enough and yet i am at a loss as to what more to do. I feel like every thing i do in this situation is wrong somehow. Second guessing myself at every turn. I feel guilty for getting frustrated with him. I feel guilty for feeling as if i cannot handle/deal with this. I feel stupid because even though what i am feeling is real...... It sounds very petty and overdramatic. I am angry at myself for not being stronger... For not being able to handle this without melting down. /emotional ravings
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Don't second guess yourself. You are doing an amazing job raising Bear. It is obvious from your posts that you adore him and from your pictures of Bear that the feeling is mutual. I know how difficult it is to suppress the "fix it now" urge when nothing seems to be going your way. I'm glad you were able to get in for a second opinion on Tuesday. Hopefully, unlike the first surgeon, they will have the time to give Bear a full and thorough examination and offer you some answers.


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## Brave

We've kept him as quiet as possible so far. We did some socialization this morning for a few hours and in conjunction with the melatonin this morning, we got him calm enough for some quality cuddles/nap time. His limp is the same but he is having more trouble getting up from a down. We spent some time lounging in the sun and playing with the water from the hose. It is nice and warm today so even hose water is warm. 

I am more emotionally grounded today than I was last night. My BFF came over last night and we stayed up god awful late decompressing and getting everything out in the open. As with most internal struggles, cracking the coffin and shedding light onto the issues tends to show them for what they really are. 

Hopefully the rest of today goes smoothly. I cannot wait to see the vet on Tuesday......but at the same time I really want to run away to the bahamas and just get a chance to relax, good and proper. 

Thoughts and prayers going out to everyone who needs them. 


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## Brave

Still the same today.....but Bear took my breath away this morning. He woke me up by sitting next to my bed and licking my hand and eventually my face. Then when I dragged my butt out of bed, he threw himself on me when I sat down on the couch and cuddled for over an hour!!!!!! I think someone misses sleeping with me. 


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## Karen519

*Bear*



Brave said:


> Still the same today.....but Bear took my breath away this morning. He woke me up by sitting next to my bed and licking my hand and eventually my face. Then when I dragged my butt out of bed, he threw himself on me when I sat down on the couch and cuddled for over an hour!!!!!! I think someone misses sleeping with me.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Bear sounds like the sweetest dog and I'm sure he misses sleeping with you!
Did they ever mention that maybe it's pano-I know young dogs get it?
Praying for Tuesday!


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## Heart O'Gold

Hang in there! You are a great mom to Bear! I hope he feels better very soon! 


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## Davidrob2

Just checking in on Bear. Hope his limp is improving.


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## kjohnstone82

Jen, you are a great doggy mum and that is clear by how much you are looking after him and getting the best care possible for him so you can get his poorly leg looked at and treated. You are doing great, please dont doubt yourself. Its always hard keeping a young pup restrained we encountered a similar thing with Jasper when he was about 6 months and had to have stomach surgery so I can feel your pain. 
Hang in there Tuesday will come round quick enough and hopefully you can get some clear answers. Please keep us posted. Give Bear a hug from me and tell him to give you a hug back! 
(((hugs)))


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## Brave

Well this morning, I am honest to God at my whits end. Bear has a metaphorical burr up his butt. He is mouthing on me hard enough to bruise which hasn't been going on for months!!!!! He is starting to try to use my hands and arms as tug toys. He is jumping on me. Running me over every chance he gets. Harassing the cats, jumping barricades. Not listening. I swear to God I am thisssssssssss close to strangling him. I feel like I am perpetually scowling and raising my voice (as if either or those things help). Tomorrow evening cannot come fast enough. 

Losing my temper is stupid. I know Bear isn't having any fun with this....... Please pray for patience for both of us and a decisive answer that allows me to exercise him agin. 


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## Brave

I finally got him semi-settled. He doesn't look happy.


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## Brave

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## Karen519

*Bear*

Bear is a beauty!!


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## xoerika620xo

aw jen im sorry you and bear are going through all of this. i know tuesday cannot come soon enough. I wish you guys the best, and hope everything goes well for you and bear.


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## Brave

Then he calms down and does something cute and all my frustrations melt into a big puddle of love.






















He buried his antler in the folds of a pillow and went to town on it. So cute!!!!


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## OutWest

He's like a little kid...buuuutt mmooooommmm, I wanna play! I'm not sick! 

Hang in there. He'll be able to get the ants out of his pants soon!


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## Karen519

*Brave*

Brave

I know that young dogs can get something called panosteitis
Someone else posted about it here.
Has Bear been checked for this?
http://www.vcahospitals.com/main/pe...rticle/animal-health/panosteitis-in-dogs/1051


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## Brave

Karen519 said:


> Brave
> 
> I know that young dogs can get something called panosteitis
> Someone else posted about it here.
> Has Bear been checked for this?
> http://www.vcahospitals.com/main/pe...rticle/animal-health/panosteitis-in-dogs/1051


Yes. The attending vet we saw when we got the X-rays taken didn't see any signs of pano on the X-rays. I will bring it up to both our second opinion tomorrow and when we see the orthopedic surgeon. Goldenjackpuppy brought it up in a different thread as well. I hope it is just that. *crosses fingers*

Worse case is we don't find anything and we repeat the X-rays. In my research, they said the marrow lesions should be more pronounced in a few weeks. 


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## OutWest

Thinking about you and Bear.


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## Brave

We have some good news..... Tomorrow is the big day!!!!! I got a message that the original surgeon will see us 4/8 at 9:30 am. And the holistic enter scheduled us for 4/29 at 4 pm. My work started giving me trouble over "all this time off". Oh joy!!!

So we're going to the second opinion tomorrow, 4/2 = $48 plus whatever they suggest we do
Re-evaluation with original orthopedic surgeon on 4/8 @ 9:30 am = $$$$?
Holistic visit on 4/29 @ 4 pm = $175.00 (they assured me we get a treatment for this cost in addition to an exam). The holistic vet was very happy to hear what supplements we've been giving Bear. So that is nice. 

Lets get to the bottom of this!!!! 

And for your enjoyment.......tonight's shenanigans. 






























He's been pushing his Wubba against my arm and if I ignore him, he squeaks it then looks at me, like he's honking the horn in my driveway. I am so in love with him. This mornings shenanigans seem forgotten. He is my one and only. 


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## mudEpawz

my fingers are crossed that all goes well. Bear really is one and a million  look at those eyes! what a cutie-pahtootie


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## Brave

We've cut down his food from 3.5-4 cups a day to 2.5 cups a day due to his restrictions and because on the off chance it is pano, some sources (German shepherd sites) think reducing food by 1/2 to 1/3 may slim the pup down enough to ease the aches. Idk if it'll work. But it is worth a shot. He has slimmed own some.... But nothing major. 

We are transitioning from bb LBP to pro plan performance 30/20. 


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## Davidrob2

I'm hoping between the two vets, you can get to the bottom of this. Good luck today.


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## xoerika620xo

Im glad to hear things are working out for you. Let us know how the appointment goes today. and bear is sooo cute that face is adorable.


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## mudEpawz

Good luck today!!!


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## Jennifer1

Hope you get some answers!
FWIW, when I have stuff going on with the critters I just tell my work that I have a Dr appointment.


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## Karen519

*Praying*

Praying for a good appointment for you and Bear!


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## Mayve

Just catching up on all this now. I am so sorry you all are going through this, makes Sages new hole seem petty and small, so I won't go there.....lol

I will try to check back tonight and send out good thoughts for good news.....


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## OutWest

Brave said:


> We've cut down his food from 3.5-4 cups a day to 2.5 cups a day due to his restrictions and because on the off chance it is pano, some sources (German shepherd sites) think reducing food by 1/2 to 1/3 may slim the pup down enough to ease the aches. Idk if it'll work. But it is worth a shot. He has slimmed own some.... But nothing major.
> 
> We are transitioning from bb LBP to pro plan performance 30/20.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


You probably already have done this, but be sure to check the calories for both foods. I thought PP performance was their highest calorie food. you might be feeding him the same amount of energy.. !


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## Brave

OutWest said:


> You probably already have done this, but be sure to check the calories for both foods. I thought PP performance was their highest calorie food. you might be feeding him the same amount of energy.. !


Thanks!! I can use all the help i can get. I over-estimated how much food we go through in 10 days, so in order to use up all of the BB, we are spreading the transition out over 4 weeks. 

BB LBP = 450 kcals/cup
PP 30/20 = 475 kcals/cup

He was getting 3-4 cups a day depending on his body and activity levels of BB = 1,350-1,800 kcals per day in meals alone

We've reduced this to 2 cups BB and 1/2 cup PP = 900 + 237.5 kcals = 1,137.5 kcals per day. 

I will definitely re-evaluate the rest of the transition plan as we get more and more PP mixed in. 

Next week we planned on doing 1.5 cups BB and 1cup PP

The following week: 1 cup BB and 1.5 cups PP

The final week: 1/2 cup BB and 2 cups PP

We might hit a problem with the extra calories as we get closer and closer to pure PP


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## Nairb

Since switching to the performance blend, I have backed off a little on portion size because of the extra calories. We're at approx 3/4 cup twice per day, but we do a lot of training, which mean a lot of treats. 


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## Brave

Nairb said:


> Since switching to the performance blend, I have backed off a little on portion size because of the extra calories. We're at approx 3/4 cup twice per day, but we do a lot of training, which mean a lot of treats.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


We do not do a lot of training anymore... But when we do I make sure to compensate with either more activity or less food. I am religious about keeping him thin.  if i caused his joint problems by letting him grow too fast.... I will be kicking myself for as long as he is hurt. 


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## Nairb

Brave said:


> We do not do a lot of training anymore... But when we do I make sure to compensate with either more activity or less food. I am religious about keeping him thin.  if i caused his joint problems by letting him grow too fast.... I will be kicking myself for as long as he is hurt.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I don't buy in to the notion that a little more food can cause them to grow too fast. Get fat? Of course, but it think bone and muscle growth rate is largely genetic. Bella's growth was very rapid, and she never ate more than 2 1/4 cups of food per day, which seems to be on the lower end of the spectrum according to what I read here on a regular basis. 

Bear has never looked fat in any of the pictures you've posted. 


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## Brave

Done with the vet. What a nightmare. The doctor was nice but abrupt (no biggie). The director of operations stayed in the exam room with us. During the examination, he pushed Bear to the point that Bear snapped at him, then when the doctor did not let go, Bear put his mouth on the Dr's hand (not a bite just -hey i am here. Stop it.)

After examining Bear and looking at copies of the X-Rays, the vet made a huge deal about how Bear is in oh so much pain and that hip dysplasia was a major concern. He said it could be many things so he recommended a joint tap, cytology and cbc panel....which is what the last doctor ordered..... All for the overinflated price $1,069. Mind you, i can get the same treatment at the first clinic for 1/2 that. I am not trying to cause trouble but i worry about my wallet since who knows where this will lead. I explained to the director that money was a concern and gave them the prices we got from the other clinic. She asked for a written quote and wanted to be present when i called to have it faxed over. The whole time i felt like i was being scrutinized as if i was running a scam or something. The director made a big deal about how their tick panel was $70 cheaper than the other clinic, but then downgraded our cbc to the bare minimum to cut costs. My DH started getting bad feelings about the clinic, like they would gouge us 1/2 way through the tests/treatment. So we opted to go back to the original clinic for the tests and follow-ups. 

I feel like a jerk, meanie-head for prolonging Bear's pain. Who the hell does that?? I've called the original doctor to see if I can do a drop-off earlier than Monday..... Obviously the tests are needed so no need to wait for an exam. Hopefully she calls me back soon. 

I feel like someone should yell at me. Tell me i was being stupid to wait. Berate me. Thought i doubt anyone can kick me as hard as i am kicking myself. Hindsight is 20/20. 

P.s. Bear has lost 1.3 pounds and is down to 55.9 lbs. 


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## mudEpawz

I would have left as well. From the description you gave, I dont like the vibe of that place. I dont like how they pushed Bear to the point where he was in pain and felt the need to warn the vet. It also sounds like they were making you feel guilty about how much pain Bear was in, kind of manipulating the situation. I am one of those people that need to process things and it sounds like they tried to apply pressure for you do act now instead of taking the time to analyze and evaluate. If your DH was getting bad vibes, I think you should trust them. I think its best that you left. Im sorry you didnt get the answers you were looking for.


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## Brave

I feel so guilty.... Even now. His legs are very sensitive now, to the point that I lay my hand on them and he moves his leg away form me. He hasn't snapped at me though. I've been crying into his fur, telling him how sorry I am. I swear he understands me. He climbed into my lap and licked my face until we toppled over from being top heavy and then he licked my face and tears away. We finished the last of the Rimadyl tonight.....so I cannot even take away his pain. Why is he so forgiving??????!


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## Mirinde

He is forgiving because he knows you didn't do anything wrong. As much as we'd like to think we'd go bankrupt for our dogs, money IS an issue with their care. You did nothing but ensure you were getting the best care at the best price... and a second opinion was preferable even if price wasn't a concern! Now you know it's time to move forward with the previous clinic and get this taken care of. Bear could be more comfortable, but he has not been in any danger. Give yourself some breathing room. And if you must allow yourself to think that you made a huge mistake, at least give yourself the benefit of the doubt that comes along with that-- we all make mistakes and taking care of another living thing that is completely dependent on you is HARD WORK. It is emotionally and physically exhausting. You absolutely, can not, and will not do it right all of the time. Trust your Bear, he has good judgement  Take a deep breath and move forward with the previous clinic and know your boy is on his way to better now.


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## Pixie

Brave said:


> Why is he so forgiving??????! Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 
Because he knows you love him and that you are doing the best you can and the best you know! And that is the most important thing of all!

Dont beat yourself up, instead take a deep breath, lift your head up high and show that little fur ball of yours that you will get through this together! 

Big hug for you both


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## Davidrob2

I'm so sorry you are having to go through this. Trust your instincts. It sounds to me like the second clinic was trying to put a guilt trip on you so you would pay the higher prices. Go back to the first clinic if that's where you (and Bear) felt the most comfortable. Can Bear get a refill on the Rimadyl?


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## Buddy's mom forever

I am so sorry, you are right it was a nightmare. It seems the other place is much better for you and sweet Bear. Sending healing vibes and prayers for sweetie, to be pain free.


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## Brave

This morning he seems better. He is all smiles and hyperactivity and play. I spent some time this morning just rubbing his legs and hips and he welcomed it. He is back to pushing his legs at me for a rub. He is a massage glutton..... Just like me. Lol. He is so cute when he does it. He just saunters up to you and lifts his leg (like he is going to pee but he is still a squatter so I know he isn't trying to pee on me) until it is either in your lap, face or hands. He has been scratching at his ears, so I'm hitting him with my homemade ear infection cream. What used to be a struggle is a breeze today. 

As for me..... Sleep has settled me (as always). Lots of deep breaths on my end. Thanks for putting up with me. 


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## Tennyson

So happy that bear is spunky and showing you what he wants. 
That's a very good sign.
And you don't have to thank us for putting up with you. Just like you we all want Bear feeling 100%.
Keep up the good work. It's paying off!


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## Brave

Thank you. Y'all are so kind to us. 

He has destroyed his Wubba. Poor toy.... It looks beheaded.









It was a good long run. Hahaha!!!!


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## Ksdenton

So sorry you're going through this and don't feel guilty. You're doing the best for him and it will all work out. I agree that the second clinic was being very rude to you and pushy. Just keep loving on that boy and looking for answers. Bear obviously loves you and you love him. Animals can deal with a lot more than humans can. He just needs your love which he's getting. You're doing great. 


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## Goldens R Great

I'm sorry to see the beheaded Wubba! 

I'm happy to read that Bear felt better today. You are doing everything you can for your boy and I commend you for that!


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## xoerika620xo

No good doctor should make you feel guilty. You did the right thing and your definitely not a bad mama to bear. He knows your doing whats best for him, don't beat yourself up. From the minute i started reading about the 2nd place i didn't like it all. Good luck and poor wubba, thats happen at least twice in my house haha.


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## OutWest

Glad the young'un is feling his oats today. Try not to second guess your decisions--you're making the best choices you can with the available info at any given moment in time. That's all any human can do.


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## Brave

Have you guys ever second guessed yourself? Just wondering. 

My DH is being super supportive, he is my rock through all of this. The second clinic said a snap test is enough for the tick panel.... But it only covers 4 diseases (including lyme). I will have to check with the doctor to see if the $200 tick panel is better than the $67 snap test. 


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## Brave

Well the little devil is being a turd machine. I was rubbing his knee area and out of no where he starts humping my leg. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr. This morning he was bouncing up and down on his hind legs so I crouched down to remove the target (me), BIG mistake!!! He got me in the face with his oh so pearly white teeth. No marks, though, thank goodness. This morning while I was trying to drag a hamper outside to wash, he managed to get over the hamper and me (are there rockets strapped to him!!?!!?) and was off like a shot before I could even grab him. It took me 20 minutes of trying to bribe him closer to get my hands on the leash. His limp is unchanged. I managed to sweet talk the vet office in giving us another 7 days of Rimadyl. I will be picking it up tonight. No word from the vet about getting the tests done sooner. So we will sit tight. 

I am noticing he is exhibiting pain signs. Panting for no reason and chewing/nibbling/licking his legs. U am keeping an eye on it. So far he hasn't caused any sores or bald spots. 


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## drofen

Brave said:


> Have you guys ever second guessed yourself?


All the time. But that's usually a pretty good indication I need rest.


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## Brave

drofen said:


> All the time. But that's usually a pretty good indication I need rest.


Yea. I feel like I've been burning the candle at both ends for months. I eat healthy. I try to get a little bit of exercise in. I try to give myself down time. I go to bed mostly at a reasonable hour..... And yet I feel bad. My rest is not restful. I am having the weirdest dreams. I allowed myself get sucked into the caffeine cycle. Feel sleepy one day, drink coffee, don't get enough sleep so drink more coffee, rinse and repeat. I think Bear and I should sleep the whole weekend. 


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## OutWest

Regarding the rockets--yes, he probably does have them attached, LOL! But that's a very good sign that he's feeling pretty good overall. You'd be far more worried if he were listless and not interested. Continuing to send good thoughts to you, Bear, and DH. Remember to take care of yourself, too.


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## Karen519

*Bear*

What do they think Bear has?
This is not your fault.


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## Brave

Karen519 said:


> What do they think Bear has?
> This is not your fault.


We don't know yet. I didn't to any tests previously because I wanted a second opinion. We are getting all the tests (CBC, tick panel, joint tap, cytology, etc) done on Monday (soonest we could be seen by the specialist for an office visit). Hopefully we will have our answers by Middle of next week. In the mean time, he will be going back on Rimadyl until we get the results. 


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## Karen519

*Brave*

Brave

We will all be praying for Bear and for you.


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## mudEpawz

just thinking about bear. I hope you guys had a good day


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## Brave

There is alot of pain tonight. He has been restless and panty. There is a bump on the outside of his knee that is very very very sensitive. If i put pressure on it when i am rubbing his legs, his head whips around and he looks at me or starts licking the area. He is back on Rimadyl. I picked it up last night. Cannot wait for Monday.


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## Karen519

*Bear*

I am praying for Bear! What will the specialist do on Monday?
Did the other two vets concur on what could be wrong?


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## inge

I am so sorry...I have been following this thread from the beginning, not posting so much. I really hope they can get to the bottom of this, because he is still so young and you want a happy life for him. I think you are doing a wonderful job. And every parent, whether you have human kids or doggies, thinks they never are doing enough..


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## Brave

Karen519 said:


> I am praying for Bear! What will the specialist do on Monday?
> Did the other two vets concur on what could be wrong?


Nobody knows what is wrong. All they do is list off 10-15 things it *could* be. Monday we do all the tests and hopefully *crosses fingers* we will have an answer by middle of next week. It is so frustrating. Monday i get to see the orthopedic surgeon from the 1st clinic we went to (the ER clinic). This i the first time we actually meet with and discuss things directly with the orthopedic surgeon. She will review the x-ray with me and feel Bear up. I will leave Bear for the day so they can sedate him, pull the fluids out of his knees (i hope that this will alleviate the pain too), run tests on the fluid, take some blood and run tests on the blood. I will talk to her about if we should repeat the x-rays to double check for lesions in the marrow (meaning it is pano). Even though we wont have the test results back --- if we do repeat X-rays on Monday - i save on having to sedate him for a 3rd time. So it is something to think about. Hopefully. If we retake X-rays - we can get a discount and i wont be another $200+.


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## Karen519

*Bear*

I will be praying for Bear and you!


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## Brave

Thanks Karen!!! And everyone else as well. I am going through my memories trying to remember all of the possible causes but i tend to be shellshocked and emotional so even if i hear it, it doesn't sink in. Ya know?

This is what I remember being thrown around:

*Partial or full tear of one or both ligaments in the knee (acl vs ccl) i think i got the names right. 
*degenerative joint disease
*autoimmune disorder (i think this is along the lines or Rheumatoid arthritis)
*Pano - though i am repeatedly told it is unlikely
*one of several tick borne illnesses that were never named
*soft tissue injury ---- this is becoming less and less likely considering he is getting worse and worse. 



We went back to bed for 3 hours and he is doing better this morning. All spunk and little brains. He plopped his smelly, ratty rope on my face this morning but he is learning that if I roll over... Just leave me alone because I am not ready to get up. I am feeding him out of the wobbler this morning to get some energy out. Bear and my youngest cat, Casey, are starting to play games. She sits up high on a counter or the table. Bear will nudge her with his nose, she bops him on the head, he lays down then pops up into a sit; rinse and repeat. I need to videotape it one of these times.


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## Karen519

*Bear*

How old is Bear?
Did you adopt him?
When did he start showing problems-was he fine before?


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## Claudia M

So So sorry you are having so much worries with Bear. I apologize, I thought it was just a little injury(with his sexy hips and elbows) and lost track of the thread. Thoughts going to you and Bear!


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## Brave

Karen519 said:


> How old is Bear?
> Did you adopt him?
> When did he start showing problems-was he fine before?


He will be 8 months old on the 13th. I adopted him as a 9 week old. He started showing symptoms out of the blue one night (3/26 i think).


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## Karen519

*Brave*

Brave

Bear and you are in my prayers. I thought dogs had to be a certain age (Like 2 years old), before they could get an accurate reading from xrays for hip dysplasia-I could be wrong.


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## Brave

Karen519 said:


> Brave
> 
> Bear and you are in my prayers. I thought dogs had to be a certain age (Like 2 years old), before they could get an accurate reading from xrays for hip dysplasia-I could be wrong.


His joints are still growing and what not, but the doctors said his hips look fantastic, tight sockets, great coverage of the femur head, etc so they don't think it is his hips nor do they think he will develop problems in his hips in the future. We can always redo rads at 2 years old to check for double check HD and do elbows to check for ED.


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## xoerika620xo

ooh jen i am so so sorry about bear. I am just catching up. you guys are in my prayers. ill keep checking up on you two. how is he doing today?


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## murphy1

Hoping all will be ok!!


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## OutWest

Poor Bear. It just hurts to hear he's so uncomfortable. 

Have you tried any brain games with him? It's not the same as physical exercise but it will tire him out and get out some of his puppy antsiness. There have been several threads on here about how to entertain dogs indoors in the winter, etc., and there might be some good ideas in there.

Sending healing thoughts to the young man.


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## Karen519

*Brave*



Brave said:


> His joints are still growing and what not, but the doctors said his hips look fantastic, tight sockets, great coverage of the femur head, etc so they don't think it is his hips nor do they think he will develop problems in his hips in the future. We can always redo rads at 2 years old to check for double check HD and do elbows to check for ED.


BRAVE: I could be wrong about the being 2 years old first, but I think I heard that.
Sounds great that everything looks good though. Did the vet prescribe the rimadyl and for what reason? is the rimadyl working?


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## Brave

Karen519 said:


> BRAVE: I could be wrong about the being 2 years old first, but I think I heard that.
> Sounds great that everything looks good though. Did the vet prescribe the rimadyl and for what reason? is the rimadyl working?


The vet prescribed the rimadyl to a) alleviate his pain and b) help with the swelling. 

To be honest, I cannot tell if it works or not. With or without it (aside from Tuesdays debacle) he is trying to jump and run off and what not. He is never still. This morning, it felt like his knees where harder than normal and bigger than normal but that went away between 3-6 am which was 8-11 hours after the last dose of Rimadyl and before the next. I will discuss his hips in more detail with the orthopedic surgeon on Monday.


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## Brave

He seems to be doing better today. I cannot really see a limp at all today. His knees feel better too. Yay!!!!! Still hoping we get answers this week.


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## goldensrbest

I sure hope so,totally unfair,the little guy is having to deal with this.


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## Guybrush

Poor Bear and family! Being sore and not allowed to run and jump sucks. Good luck with all the tests and meds. Hope Bear is back to his normal self soon. Hope everything turns out alright and not too expensive!


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## OutWest

Brave said:


> He seems to be doing better today. I cannot really see a limp at all today. His knees feel better too. Yay!!!!! Still hoping we get answers this week.


It occurred to me... you might want to take a piece of string and measure around his joints once or twice during the day, and write down the measurements. It would give you and the ortho an idea of the amount of swelling and when it comes and goes... just a thought... Otherwise the ortho is just working on impressions...

So glad he's feeling better today.


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## mudEpawz

Just checking in on Bear. Hoping he is feeling alright.


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## Brave

OutWest said:


> It occurred to me... you might want to take a piece of string and measure around his joints once or twice during the day, and write down the measurements. It would give you and the ortho an idea of the amount of swelling and when it comes and goes... just a thought... Otherwise the ortho is just working on impressions...
> 
> So glad he's feeling better today.


Darn! I never would have thought of that!!! Thanks. Too late for tomorrows appointment but good for the future. 


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## Thalie

Best thoughts for tomorrow's appointment. I hope the ortho vet has some answers as to what's going on with Bear with a "this is temporary and will go away soon" conclusion.


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## Brave

Thalie said:


> Best thoughts for tomorrow's appointment. I hope the ortho vet has some answers as to what's going on with Bear with a "this is temporary and will go away soon" conclusion.


Thanks! I am hopeful. Bear is in better spirits the last few days. Idk if it is more energy built up or just feeling better. His limp is barely visible, but i hear more popping when he moves around. Idk if its his knees or not. I have my finger, toes, arms, legs, and every strand of hair crossed. 

I will be leaving him at the clinic for the whole day but will post as soon as I leave the office visit with the specialist. Hopes are high. 


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## Max's Dad

Hope you get some good news from the ortho tomorrow.


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## dogloverforlife

Hope you can find out what is going on tomorrow! 
In your post about the second opinion you said the vet said he has hip dysplasia? 

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## murphy1

Regarding finances...check into CareCredit,,,,maybe your vet belongs.


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## Brave

dogloverforlife said:


> Hope you can find out what is going on tomorrow!
> In your post about the second opinion you said the vet said he has hip dysplasia?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


The (edited by author) of a second opinion, I honestly think, was trying to scare me. Nothing spurs action faster than telling you something is wrong with a loved one. My first vet and the orthopedic surgeon she consulted with both agree that his hips are good-excellent. The pain, tenderness, and swelling (effusion) is localized at his knees as far as the vet could tell. We've started him on joint supplements (glucosomine) as a precaution. He's been on Fish oil for many months now.


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## SandyK

Want to wish you and Bear good luck tomorrow. I hope the ortho gives you some answers. I am glad to see Bear seems to be doing well and his spirits are up!!


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## Davidrob2

Good luck with Bear's appointment today. I hope you are able to get some firm answers.


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## xoerika620xo

Wishing you guys luck today. hugs from chester and I =).


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## Bentleysmom

Brave said:


> The (edited by author) of a second opinion, I honestly think, was trying to scare me. Nothing spurs action faster than telling you something is wrong with a loved one. My first vet and the orthopedic surgeon she consulted with both agree that his hips are good-excellent. The pain, tenderness, and swelling (effusion) is localized at his knees as far as the vet could tell. We've started him on joint supplements (glucosomine) as a precaution. He's been on Fish oil for many months now.


I hope he feels better soon! ♥


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## Brave

I didn't give Bear a Rimadyl this morning in anticipation of our visit, because I didn't want them to be masking any sympthoms. So, we saw the orthopedic surgeon. She was very nice, personable, and walked me through everything. Bear took an immediate likening to her, which was nice. She took him for some walking and going up and down stairs to see how he acted and looked. She commented that anytime he went up the stairs, he would ALWAYS bunny hop. She didn't feel ANY swelling or effusion in his knees, which shocked the doctor because she saw enough fluid in his knees for there to be a physical lump. I asked about Pano and see says that one leg looks denser than the other and there "might" be a leasion on his left femur by his knee. She felt some instability in one of his knees (i forgot which one). She said, he walks like a dog with hip dysplasia and she is concerned that he may be dysplastic *my heart stopped when she said this* because the angle wasn't as pronounced as she would like to see, and the positioning was off so she can only guess that he has 50% coverage of his femural head and the part of his hip bone that is supposed to curve around his furmur head, was at a right angle. All of this really means nothing to me at all. But I am more inclined to believe her based on her evaluation. She was very thorough and kind, took the time to listen to my concerns. IDK if this is a bias or not. 

So, the plan is to put him under general anesthia, retake the x-rays, evaluate if his knees still look full of fluid. IF YES, do a joint tap and cytology (both in-house and out house). IF the joint tap has an excessive amount of white blood cells, we will also pull a CBC and tick panel. 

IF his knees look fine, she is going to further investigate his hips and see if there is any instability there. 

Because he has to go under general anesthia, DH will bring him back to the clinic at 2 pm. This because I fed him breakfast thinking this was simply a light sedation. We're looking at spending close to $700 worse case scenario on diagnostics. The good news? I qualified for care credit, so we will be using that, instead of putting it on a credit card. What a life saver. 

So, now I am on pins and needles about "omg what if his hips really are bad!!!" I thought we were out of the woods on this one because the first doctor reassured me the day there were taken that he had excellent hips with 70% femural head coverage and she reassured me again on the following Sunday after the surgeon looked at the x-rays, that his hips are still fine even though the ortho vet said he only has 50% coverage, there is still no sign of displaysia. Dear God. What a rollarcoaster... and not the fun one. This is turning into a nightmare. I just want me little puppy to be ok. 

Thanks for listening. Everything is going to be ok. Everything is going to work out perfectly. Chin up and all that jazz.


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## Brave

P.S. he is not limping today. It's like a car! Take him to a mechanic and suddenly that jackhammer sound that has been plaguing you for 10 days? GONE! Poof! Vanished into thin air.


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## Max's Dad

At least after today you should know exactly what is going on with Bear.


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## Brave

Thank you. I appreciate it. I hope we get definitive answers today. 


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## Ksdenton

Brave said:


> P.S. he is not limping today. It's like a car! Take him to a mechanic and suddenly that jackhammer sound that has been plaguing you for 10 days? GONE! Poof! Vanished into thin air.


Oh gosh don't I know what that's like!!
Well I really hope for the best with him. All this really sucks! That's the only way to describe what you're going through is that it sucks and I'm sorry. 
I have to say with reading about Bear and Ky I went ahead and bought the pet insurance. Never had it before but I've got it now. Hope I never need to use it. 


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## Bob Dylan

I agree, finally answers, you have been in limbo for some time. I will keep your baby in my prayers. (HUGS)


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## Davidrob2

It sounds like the doctor is being very thorough. I hope she can pinpoint exactly what's wrong and come up with a course of action. Keeping you and Bear in my prayers.


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## Karen519

*Bear*

This Doctor sounds like she is caring and thorough. Did you bring Bear back for the tests? We will all be praying.
So glad you got care credit-that's the only way Ken and I could have afforded the two surgeries we had to have for Smooch and Snobear. (not hip related)

Be sure to ask the Doctor how SORE he will be after these; just in case Bear is, you won't be alarmed.

I am praying for Bear and you!!


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## Brave

Dh took him. I am stuck at work. I feel like, I work to afford my puppy. Ha!!!!!! As far as I know, he is under and the tests should be running. They are supposed to call me to let me know what happens. I hope my boy doesn't hate the vets after this. 


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## xoerika620xo

Oh wow Jen. I am so sorry again. I
Really hope it's not his hips and it isn't worse case scenario. Thanks for the update. We love you bear stay strong! And you too Jen 


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## Jessie'sGirl

Fingers crossed for Bear. Jess has paws crossed too.


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## Brave

Bear is awake!!! Going to pick him up, will post again later. 


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## dogloverforlife

Hope everything went well! Praying nothing is wrong with his hips.
What insurance are you talking about? Is care credit an insurance?


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## Vinnie's Mom

I just read through this thread. I hope they fix Bear! 



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## Heart O'Gold

I hope the tests come out really good for Bear! Keeping you all in my prayers!


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## inge

Keeping my fingers crossed!


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## Bentleysmom

I'll say a prayer for Bear !


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## goldy1

More prayers coming your way for Bear!


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## xoerika620xo

Thinking of bear and you tonight. 


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## mudEpawz

Thinking of your guys! Hope you got your answers and that they are positive


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## Brave

Darn it!!! I had a huge follow up and the forum ATE IT! Grrrr... ok. Let me start over... For now, Bear is acting EXTREMELY AGGRESSIVE, to the point I had to crate him out of fear for my own safety and the safety of the cats. 

While I write out the rest of the update... here are his x-rays. 

3/20 






















Today 4/8


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## OutWest

Anxiously waiting the report... I reaLy hate it when I type something up then it gets lost...


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## Brave

*Long Update*

Ok..... I'm going to try to make this as quick as possible and try to cover everything I covered before my post got eaten. 

As I stated in my other post, Bear is super aggressive right now. I am still waiting for a call back from the vet. She is in surgery and it's been 90 minutes since I called. He has been groaning, which is understandable, and even growly. He has been giving me this weird sideways look, which looks fearful. He has now snapped at me while growling. Which is a conundrum. He wants to be plastered against me but doesn't want me to touch him.... hmmmmmmmmmm. I have now padded his crate with blankets and pillows and crated him for the night. I think that is the safest course of action for tonight. I won't worry about jostling him in the night and he can hopefully sleep off the pain. If he is still aggressive in the morning, I will either take him back or demand a house visit. 

The new x-rays showed significant fluid in his knees, so they went ahead with the joint tap. They got more fluid from the right knee than from the left knee. The normal amount of WBC should be ~1 per pane, his right knee had 5 per pane and his left knee had 10-20 per pane. She said the normal viscosity of the fluid is thick, but Bear's was thin (not runny). One drop of fluid can be stretched ~6 inches. Bear's could only be stretched 1 1/2 inches. Also, the WBC are lymphocytes which are not typical for tick-borne illnesses - so she opted not to run the tick panal. 

She said puppies under 1 year old can be tested most accurately for dysplasia by physical manipulation, so she went over his hips with a fine tooth comb. She says his hips had ~1 mm of clicking/movement with nothing audible. Her professional opinion is that he has a mild form of hip dysplasia but that it is 100% not affecting him now and shouldn't affect him in the future. 

So our list of possible diagnosises is down to two things.
1) ligament tear
2) IMPA - Immune-mediate Polyarthritis - an autoimmune disease

Where we go from here.... wait and see. Yep... her words exactly. She said if this is a tear, it'll worsen significantly within the next 2-3 weeks. So we will re-evaluate in 3 weeks. If he is the same or better, we will start a cortizone trial. If he improves drastically on the cortizone, it is IMPA and we will go from there. 

In the meantime, 40+ minutes of low impace exercise a day... or as much as he is interested in. Rimadyl 2x a day up until 10 days prior to our next appointment. No additional treatments. No chiropractor. No accupuncture. Nothing. 

She has assured me that Bear isn't suffering. So that is where we are. Closer to an answer... but not yet there.


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## OutWest

Brave said:


> Ok..... I'm going to try to make this as quick as possible and try to cover everything I covered before my post got eaten.
> 
> As I stated in my other post, Bear is super aggressive right now. I am still waiting for a call back from the vet. She is in surgery and it's been 90 minutes since I called. He has been groaning, which is understandable, and even growly. He has been giving me this weird sideways look, which looks fearful. He has now snapped at me while growling. Which is a conundrum. He wants to be plastered against me but doesn't want me to touch him.... hmmmmmmmmmm. I have now padded his crate with blankets and pillows and crated him for the night. I think that is the safest course of action for tonight. I won't worry about jostling him in the night and he can hopefully sleep off the pain. If he is still aggressive in the morning, I will either take him back or demand a house visit.
> 
> The new x-rays showed significant fluid in his knees, so they went ahead with the joint tap. They got more fluid from the right knee than from the left knee. The normal amount of WBC should be ~1 per pane, his right knee had 5 per pane and his left knee had 10-20 per pane. She said the normal viscosity of the fluid is thick, but Bear's was thin (not runny). One drop of fluid can be stretched ~6 inches. Bear's could only be stretched 1 1/2 inches. Also, the WBC are lymphocytes which are not typical for tick-borne illnesses - so she opted not to run the tick panal.
> 
> She said puppies under 1 year old can be tested most accurately for dysplasia by physical manipulation, so she went over his hips with a fine tooth comb. She says his hips had ~1 mm of clicking/movement with nothing audible. Her professional opinion is that he has a mild form of hip dysplasia but that it is 100% not affecting him now and shouldn't affect him in the future.
> 
> So our list of possible diagnosises is down to two things.
> 1) ligament tear
> 2) IMPA - Immune-mediate Polyarthritis - an autoimmune disease
> 
> Where we go from here.... wait and see. Yep... her words exactly. She said if this is a tear, it'll worsen significantly within the next 2-3 weeks. So we will re-evaluate in 3 weeks. If he is the same or better, we will start a cortizone trial. If he improves drastically on the cortizone, it is IMPA and we will go from there.
> 
> In the meantime, 40+ minutes of low impace exercise a day... or as much as he is interested in. Rimadyl 2x a day up until 10 days prior to our next appointment. No additional treatments. No chiropractor. No accupuncture. Nothing.
> 
> She has assured me that Bear isn't suffering. So that is where we are. Closer to an answer... but not yet there.


I'm sorry you didn't get definitive answers and that Bear has to continue with "confinement." I'm betting the aggression is the discomfort and fear from the day showing up. 

It seems like they could diagnose a ligament tear faster. Is an MRI an option? I know they're expensive....


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## Brave

Ok. Just got back from the vet. again... The vet has NO CLUE what would cause such a significant shift in personality, so they are chalking it up to pain. I just picked up some tramadol. He didn't want to eat the hot dog until I waved another piece of hotdog in the air, then he down the tramadol and I gave him another sliver of hot dog. I was honestly scared to lift the blanket over the crate. What if he was snarling and lunging at the cage? Ugh!! I didn't open the crate, just slipped it in between the bars. He took it very gently. He looked a little bit more alert. I don't want to push my luck by letting him out and moving him around right now. He doesn't want to move his hind legs at all. He sits on his back instead of his feet, so he's curved into this weird, awkward backwards C. Instead of a right angle.


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## Brave

P.S. the anesthia he was given is isoflurane


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## OutWest

Poor baby...hope he has a restful night and wakes up as his normal self.


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## Brave

Me too... I'm googling it and the sites i've clicked on have said the same thing - it's a combination of being doped up and in pain. I've poured three drinks in me and I'm starting to get sleepy. So I'm calling it a night. He is supposed to have the tramadol 3 times a day, so that means every 8 hours. If I gave it at 10 then I can give it again at 6 am and again at 2 pm. Perfect!


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## Pixie

I am sorry to hear that Bear was in pain this evening. Maybe it is linked with all the manipulation and procedures his knee was submited to? Maybe it just made it more fragil and he feels it more!

Hope a good night sleep will improve things.

And I think you are heading in the good direction to find out exactly what the issue is! Hold on in there.

And as usual, keep us post it.

Big hug


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## goldensrbest

Bear is in pain,that is why the growl, the personality change.


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## Karen519

*Brave*

Brave

I think that the manipulation of his knee, etc., yesterday is at least part of Bear's pain. 
I would call and ask.
Praying that he feels better today!
We had a female Samoyed that was very sore after xrays!


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## inge

What does it mean if they say that he is not suffering? Everything I read makes me think he is in pain...horrible you have to wait for another three weeks to get more definitive answers. I hope he is a bit better today.


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## Davidrob2

Checking in to see how Bear is this morning. I'm the soreness of the tests has calmed down and he is back to his lovable self.


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## Bob Dylan

How is Bear this morning? Give him Hugs from us!


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## Jessie'sGirl

Pain from the manipulation is my guess. I saw an ortho doc about my knee, walked in pain free, 5 min after leaving the pain started from all the twisting she did. She's never touching my knee again.
Hope Bear is feeling better today.


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## xoerika620xo

inge said:


> What does it mean if they say that he is not suffering? Everything I read makes me think he is in pain...horrible you have to wait for another three weeks to get more definitive answers. I hope he is a bit better today.


I agree it sounds as if he is still in pain. I'm so sorry Jen you have guys still don't have a definite answer and your best thing to do is to wait and see.. I can understand your frustration and hurt I would be the same way


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## Brave

Complete 180° from last night. He is bright eyed and alert. He is walking with a stiff-legedness. It didn't look like he had moved at all during the night, but when I opened the crate he was all smiles and kisses and wags. I am giving him another tramadol this morning to be on the safe side. 

The doctor said it probably feels like an achy, sore, tenderness (under normal circumstances) verses shooting, stabby, intense pain. Idk if that even makes sense. 


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## Brave

This was from when he was plastered to me last night....









And this is from this mornings cuddles.....










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## Ksdenton

Oh so glad he's back to sweet Bear. I'm sure being sedated made him confused and scared and then the pain from the draining and manipulation on top of that. Poor guy. He's not feeling the sedation this morning and now just the soreness which he can deal with. Not sure which outcome to hope for. I'm guessing the tear maybe since it can be fixed?


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## Karen519

*Bear*



Brave said:


> Complete 180° from last night. He is bright eyed and alert. He is walking with a stiff-legedness. It didn't look like he had moved at all during the night, but when I opened the crate he was all smiles and kisses and wags. I am giving him another tramadol this morning to be on the safe side.
> 
> The doctor said it probably feels like an achy, sore, tenderness (under normal circumstances) verses shooting, stabby, intense pain. Idk if that even makes sense.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Glad Bear is feeling better. From what I went through with my Samoyed girl years ago, I think a lot of the pain is from the manipulation and the confusion from the sedative.


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## Brave

I am hoping it is an autoimmune disease. IMPA is easily managed and most dogs are off pills for most of their life. There should be less downtime with IMPA and it also means that there isn't anything structurally wrong with his legs. 


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## dogloverforlife

It sucks that you have to wait so long to find out what is really wrong. Glad he is back to himself today.

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## xoerika620xo

yay! im so glad bear is back to his normal self. I really wish you guys had a definite answer as to whats wrong. i know how it must feel to just sit and wait....that must be the worse. but take it easy jen atleast he is back to his normal self and he is a cuddle bug


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## drofen

Never mind.


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## Jen & Brew

I missed this.... What's going on with Bear? What happened? What's the prognosis? I don't want to have to read through all 27 pages


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## Brave

Jen & Brew said:


> I missed this.... What's going on with Bear? What happened? What's the prognosis? I don't want to have to read through all 27 pages


You make me giggle. We're down to two possibilities.... He tore the ligaments in both his knees or he has IMPA (an autoimmune disease). We have to wait 3 more weeks then re-evaluate. Hopefully by then this is nailed down and we can start treatment. I just want to curl up in bed and sleep for the next 3 weeks. 


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## OutWest

Brave said:


> You make me giggle. We're down to two possibilities.... He tore the ligaments in both his knees or he has IMPA (an autoimmune disease). We have to wait 3 more weeks then re-evaluate. Hopefully by then this is nailed down and we can start treatment. I just want to curl up in bed and sleep for the next 3 weeks.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I'm guessing that all of this--the vet visits, and Bear's needing to be quiet, etc.--has made you put your diet and exercise plan on the back burner. I'm here to say--take care of yourself, too! :wave: You had some goals for your own health that shouldn't be ignored while Bear is recuperating. :


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## pshales

I'm just catching up on things here (and DID slog thru all 27 pages). I'm so sorry to hear that you all have been through so much! 

My hope is that Bear can experience less pain in the next few weeks, and that the "waiting" part of wait and see can be as close to normal as possible!


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## Mirinde

Do torn ligaments in BOTH knees happen very often?


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## Brave

OutWest said:


> I'm guessing that all of this--the vet visits, and Bear's needing to be quiet, etc.--has made you put your diet and exercise plan on the back burner. I'm here to say--take care of yourself, too! :wave: You had some goals for your own health that shouldn't be ignored while Bear is recuperating. :


Girl. You do NOT want to know how much weight I've gained since all this started. I got snapped back into drinking sodas and haven't pounded the pavement for a walk in 3 weeks. Trying to juggle Bear, DH, household, finances, etc..... Omg there is no time for me. I am trying to talk to DH about it so he can some of the burden but he is "sick" so all he wants to do is sleep and play games on the computer. /sigh. 

I am doing the best I can in the specific circumstances we have right now. I could and will do better to take care of myself. I promise. 


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## Brave

Mirinde said:


> Do torn ligaments in BOTH knees happen very often?


The vet said torn ligaments are most common for dogs 5 years and older. It is rare to see it in a puppy, but she has seen a 9 month old with both knees torn. 


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## Brave

dogloverforlife said:


> Hope everything went well! Praying nothing is wrong with his hips.
> What insurance are you talking about? Is care credit an insurance?


Sorry. I never got around to answering this. The insurance is pet insurance. If we had purchased t prior to the first sympthom, supposedly all of this would have bee covered (minus deductible, etc depending on plan). 

CareCredit is special financing where you get a promotional period of interest-free or delayed-interest so you can pay it over time if you don't have it upfront. Our bill was ~$500.00 so we qualified for 12 months delayed interest. We have until 4/8/14 to pay off the charge or we get hit with 26.99% interest on the charges. 


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## Brave

I haven't seen Bear since this morning, but I ran across this online today and wanted to post it. It's discussions and Real Time experience with IMPA. 

impa



> The Berner-l on Autoimmune Polyarthritis
> BERNER-L Digest 3830
> Subject: Immune mediated polyarthritis (IMPA) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 08:39:18 EDT From: [email protected] To: [email protected], [email protected]
> My Berner who is a year and eight months has been diagnosised with this >horrible disease. She is currently on Prednisone and Doxycycline. (pending >results of ticke borne disease) >Any information re PIM would be greatly appreciated. Cause, Cure, Genetic, >etc...
> Hi Jonelle,
> IMPA is a pretty big topic, but I'll try to summary what I've learned about it since my 6-1/2 y.o. bitch was diagnosed with it last July.
> About the best discussion of IMPA I've seen is the article under the heading "Polyarthritis, Nonerosive, Immune-Mediated" in the book "The 5 Minute Veterinary Consult". If you can get your hands on a copy, it will give you pretty a good leg up on understanding the disease...to the extent that the medical community understands the disease.
> Depending on who you talk to and at what point in time, you'll hear IMPA intertwined with SLE (Systemic Lupus Erythematosus). It's unclear whether IMPA is a presentation of SLE, related to SLE, a precursor of SLE, or a totally separate disease...but it is clear that what initially presents as IMPA (inflamed joints) can end up as a systemic auto-immune disease wherein the body attacks any or all parts of itself.
> The cause of IMPA is unknown, however it has been associated with gastrointestinal disease, neoplasia (cancer), urinary tract infection, periodontitis, bacterial endocarditis, heartworm disease, pyometra, chronic otitis (ear infection), fungal infections, and some antibiotics. While the article mentioned previously states that it is "not known to be hereditary", I personally believe that there is a genetic component to the disease in our breed.
> Basically, IMPA is a diagnosis based on eliminating other possible causes of joint inflammation.
> This girl had been GDC Hips-Good, Elbows-Normal, PennHIP .31/.36 at 2-1/2 yrs of age. Hocks and stifles were xrayed by my vet prior to the 'crash' that brought us to Tufts so from the start we were reasonably sure we weren't dealing with the typical osteoarthritis.
> The workup for my girl was done by Tufts U. and included:
> Extensive tick panels, including Lyme disease, RMSF,and relatively rare varieties of ehrlichia.
> Metastasis Screen (series of xrays looking for cancer).
> Comprehensive bloodwork.
> (4) Joint taps.
> ANA test (Looks for anti-nucleaic antibodies which indicates an auto-immune basis for the problem, however, the test results can be affected by both antibiotics and steroids...either or both of which have usually been administered by the time the ANA test is done.)
> Treatment protocols and where we are now will follow in another post.
> -S.F.V
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Subject: IMPA-Treatments Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 12:38:41 EDT From: [email protected] To: [email protected], [email protected]
> The textbook treatment for IMPA is a course of prednisone at full dose for 10-14 days, then tapered down...hopefully to the point where the dog is clinically normal, synovial fluid is normal, and the dog is considered to be in remission, and is off the meds.
> Some dogs don't tolerate pred well or, the pred alone doesn't result in resolution of clinical symptoms and normal cytology...in which cases cytotoxic drugs, typically immuran, are substituted or added to the prednisone. Drug therapy usually continues for a period of months during which dogs must be closely monitored for serious side effects. If/when remission is achieved and drug therapy ceased, the recurrence rate is appx 30%-50%.
> Following this protocol, I have known Bernese to live with the disease from middle age until they had to be put to rest at 9 years due to rear end ataxia. One of these (2) girls was maintained on a continuous low dose of pred, the other was on and off again relatively quickly throughout her life.
> I have also know Bernese to crash big time when weaned off the meds and be lost when drugs failed to get the disease back under control. The potential is there for IMPA to 'go systemic' and erupt in organs as diverse as the kidneys and skin or for the dog to suddenly experience hemolytic anemia.
> I've also known dogs that were lost due to the side affects of the meds necessary to keep the disease under control. Some dogs require high enough doses of steroids and/or cytotoxins to cause irrepairble damage to the liver, kidneys, or bone marrow. Bone and muscle loss significant enough to seriously impact quality of life is typical for dogs requiring long term treatment at higher than minimal doses.
> All of these possibilities should be discussed and weighed when discussing a treatment plan with your vet.
> My choice was to utilize the experience and investigation into complimentary therapies done by a friend of mine ALONG with the clinical work and input of my regular (allopathic) vet. Thankfully my vet was willing to go along with my wishes provided I understood that it was on my responsibility.
> My bitch came home from Tufts on 40mg pred/day. We kept her on that alone for several days...both for the quick knock down pred provides to get things under control, and to allow time for a regimen of complimentary supplements to be worked out and arrive along with a prednisone alternative.
> By the end of the first week, I started phasing off the pred and on to a product called natural hydrocortisone (NH). By the end of the second week, my girl was on the NH alone....at a dosage equivalent to appx 32 mg of pred. The supplier of the NH claims that the product is molecularly the same as the glucocorticoid produced by the body and that it's metabolized far more completely than prednisone...thereby not leaving the toxic metabolites behind that put so much stress on the liver to eliminate. How true this claim is, I don't know...my perception based on my dog is that many of the side affects are similar in nature but greatly reduced in degree with the NH vs the pred.
> In addition to the NH, my bitch is on a diet and regimen of supplements designed to support a body dealing with chronic disease, address the disease itself, and to abbrogate the negative effects of the meds and supps.
> One underlying premise is that dogs with chronic diseases tend not to absorb and utilize nutrients as readily as healthy dogs. To address this aspect, she was changed from the 'premium' kibble I'd been feeding to a 'boutique' kibble that has an extremely high percentage of meat as the protein source and we added a nutrient supplement from the same company. Pureed fresh fruits and vegetables are added to meals and probiotics are given before the meal to promote digestion and absorption. Also added are a B Complex vitamin and calcium (because steroids leach calcium from the body).
> EFAs and anti-oxidents are added via fish oil, flax seed oil, Vit E, and Ester C.
> Both chronic disease and steroids can take a toll on the liver so 'detox' is supported with the addition of ALA, milk thistle, and an Ayrvedic herbal product.
> IMPA reflects an immune system in overdrive so several supplements are used to moderate it, including: MSM (also anti-inflammatory), colostrum, lactoferrin w/ colostrum, and Moducare.
> Glucocorticoids, whether synthetic or 'natural', result in some degree of muscle wasting. This has been greatly lessened since the addition (last fall) of curcumin to the regimen.
> DGL (from licorice extract) is given to help protect the stomach from meds and supplements that can cause irritation.
> Based on my experience, I'd conclude that with the exception of the NH, dogs who are on the standard drug protocol may well benefit from any or all of these support elements. Dosage, brand, and timing of administration are all important specifics which I've not detailed. If you choose to use complimentary approaches, please do not guess...and do not believe everything the makers tell you...work with someone who's well experienced and knowledgeable.
> Next post... Status 11 months post dx -S.F.V
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> BERNER-L digest 3831
> Subject: IMPA-Status Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 13:20:43 EDT From: [email protected] To: [email protected], [email protected]
> It's been 11 months since my bitch was first diagnosed wtih IMPA. At present, she's on the same dose of NH as she was early on. I reduced the dosage one notch in late March and then watched her VERY closely for the next 6 weeks. During that time, I noticed her get progressively less waggy-tailed, less 'up', less likely to engage in play, like inclined to do a deep stretch, less excited about going tunnel for a butt scratch. She also became flatulent (daily) for the first time in her life and her nose color paled.
> These changes were very subtle, yet very clear to both my husband and I... it's one of those 'listen to your dog' things. When you know them very, very, well you're often able to *see* small changes in their physique or behavior that signal what's happening before it becomes blatantly obvious and serious. To us, they added up to indicate a decline in her well being.
> I upped the NH back to the previous level and have seen ALL of the items listed above resolve in the month since.
> I continue to do bloodwork (CBC and Chem) every 4-6 weeks. Alk Phos has been above normal levels (indicative of liver stress) since the beginning but not into dangerous territory. All else looks good so far.
> The NH is a steroid and does lower resistance to infection, reflected in my bitch by repeated UTIs. Be careful here...the usual UTI symptoms are pretty much negated by the steroid...no straining, no uncontrolable piddles, no repetitious and unproductive squatting. Our best indicator of the onset of a UTI is my intact male becoming a butthead .
> So, by now you're saying "ya, ya, ya...but how's the dog"?
> Apart from being a bit food obsessed, Simca's terrific! She goes for a daily run in the woods, enjoys belly rubs and butt scratches, and made me very proud getting the first leg towards her CD at our regional specialty two weeks ago....the first dog show she's ever been to. We'd left home at 7:30 AM and she'd done a full morning of 'meet & greet' with all comers looking for breed information, before going into the ob ring in the afternoon. She also looks good enough to surprise several people that she was there for obedience and not the breed ring. She slept like a log all the way home but when she got out of the truck at 6 that night, there was no sign of lameness or stress. The next morning she was singing to me right on cue when it was time to head for the woods.
> Honestly, my vet wants to see the NH reduced...she wasn't pleased with my decision to increase it back to the prior level. But she also respects my insights into my dog and my conscious decision to maximize quality of life...even if it may be at the expense of lifespan down the road.
> Right now, I'm very pleased with where we're at. I hope I can say the same thing a year from now and a year after that, but I also know that things can change with each bloodwork report.
> -S.F.V
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> BERNER-L Digest 3832
> Subject: Re: Treatments Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 16:46:48 EDT From: [email protected] To: [email protected], [email protected]
> One item I inadvertently omitted...
> I've given Cosequin DS since the beginning. Although IMPA is considered a non-erosive form of arthritis, steroids can break down cartilage...as can the enzymes created by inflammation. I hope to mitigate the impact of those factors by use of the Cosequin.
> -Sherri V.


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## Brave

Here is another link, this one is for a blog of a cockerpoo with IMPA. 

Do Not Break the Dog: The Dog (Don't break it)


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## Brave

Awwwww. I came home and Bear is 100% back to normal (personality wise). His legs are still a bit stiff and he prances like a little pony when he is excited. But he is all kisses and belly rubs and love an happiness. He even let me rub his legs a little bit. 


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## amy22

Awwww I hope you find out what is wrong with Bear soon. Hang in there!


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## Pixie

The little boy just had a ruff day the other day! Happens to us all 

Now it should be all about TLC


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## Karen519

*Bear*



Brave said:


> Awwwww. I came home and Bear is 100% back to normal (personality wise). His legs are still a bit stiff and he prances like a little pony when he is excited. But he is all kisses and belly rubs and love an happiness. He even let me rub his legs a little bit.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


So glad Bear is doing better. Praying for good results!


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## Brave

We've been off Tramadol for over 12 hours and he is doing great. A little stiffer in the legs than before and more bunny hopping when he is off leash but no whining, no panting, etc. Still trying to pin the next appointment down. The assistance emailed me this morning and said the vet wants to push it from 3 weeks to 4 weeks (because the longer we wait the more likely we will see a change). I am trusting that she has Bear's best interests at heart. 


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## OutWest

Glad he's moving, and glad he's back to being lovable.


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## Goldens R Great

I'm just catching up on your posts. I'm glad to hear Bear is doing better.

My second golden had IMPA. She was diagnosed later in life. Addy was having trouble walking and my vet (that I was going to at that time) thought Addy had an ACL issue and referred me to a surgeon. He examined her and said it wasn't an ACL issue at all. Her hocks were swollen a little bit and felt hot to the touch. (I hadn't even noticed that and neither did my vet.) Anyway, he checked her synovial fluids and diagnosed her with IMPA. She took a few different meds for it and also some supplements. Overall she did very well with it. The last year of her life was a little tougher for her to get around, but she lived three months short of fourteen. 

You've been through a lot with Bear and admire you for everything you are doing for him. I'll be glad for you and Bear when you have a diagnosis.


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## Brave

Goldens R Great said:


> My second golden had IMPA. She was diagnosed later in life. Addy was having trouble walking and my vet (that I was going to at that time) thought Addy had an ACL issue and referred me to a surgeon. He examined her and said it wasn't an ACL issue at all. Her hocks were swollen a little bit and felt hot to the touch. (I hadn't even noticed that and neither did my vet.) Anyway, he checked her synovial fluids and diagnosed her with IMPA. She took a few different meds for it and also some supplements. Overall she did very well with it. The last year of her life was a little tougher for her to get around, but she lived three months short of fourteen.


Bless your heart for sharing this with me. Thank you so much!! The vet is optimistic if this is IMPA, Bear will live a long, happy, and fulfilled life. 

In my googling research, I came across a thread about a bull-dog with IMPA and two partial tears in his ligaments and the unanimous opinion was to put him down and get a new one.... An 11 month old puppy!! Just reading that made me cry. Then there was a story about an Akita with it, she lived for a few days shy of her 3rd birthday. But it has all given me great ideas about managing it if it is indeed IMPA. Since that is what the vet is leaning towards, that is what I am preparing for. If Bear turns into a special-needs puppy he has come to the right home. Pills? We can take em. Monthly blood work? I will do it. Special supplements? All over it! Mobility assistance devices? We will learn them together. If it is IMPA, I read it may be genetic so I plan on letting the rescue know and letting the other puppy parents from his litter know. 

Did your golden have the same activity levels as a normal dog? I don't want us on restriction for the rest of his life. 

I wonder, also, if there is a test that can say "this is IMPA" versus "lets treat and see what happens".

Also, I read that with autoimmune disorders I should stop vaccinating completely in case it sets it off again. Of course, we have to talk to the vets and do more research - but it is something for me to think about. 



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## Karen519

*Bear*

Glad to read that Bear is doing better!!!


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## Brave

He had a tumble this morning trying to get in bed. But he is ok. No lingering effects, i don't think. We do have a new symptom. He is starting to lose the hair around his eyes. And this morning he has a small pink spot on his lower eyelid (by the corner of his eye). I am going to keep my eye on it but tell the vet in case it is indicative of something. 


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## Brave

Here's a picture. It's not very good. It is more pronounced in real time. But you can also kinda see the fur around his eyes thinning.


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## Karen519

*Brave*

Brave

I would mention everything to the vet-the more info they have the better.
I would put it in writing, too, so they have a record to put in his chart.

Was he ever tested for thyroid?


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## Davidrob2

Poor Bear. I can't remember -- did you say they checked his thyroid? I have autoimmune hypothyroidism and Bear's symptoms sound similar to mine when my medication is off -- swelling in the extremities, hair loss, weight gain. Don't know if thyroid disease in dogs presents itself in the same way it does in humans.


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## Brave

We have not checked his thyroid. No bloodwork was done. The vet felt it was unnecessary given what the joint tap revealed. I will bring it up as well. I emailed them, so it is in writing. Thanks guys!! I never would have thought of that!!!


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## dogloverforlife

I can't believe he has all this at such a young age. Hugs to you for everything you have gone through.


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## Goldens R Great

Those are definitely sad stories about the dogs with IMPA. It's hard to read things like that.

Addy's life was totally normal once she was put on her meds. She ran at the park, we went for walks and she loved to swim. She had to have help up and down steps the last year of her life and she didn't move as fast as she used to, but some of that could have simply been her age too.

As far as the testing, I know the vet ran a few tests to eliminate other possibilities, but the main test that confirmed it was the joint fluid aspirate that he sent to the lab.

Addy also continued to receive her regular vacs.

I just read you've noticed hair loss on him and I'm sorry he had a tumble too. That poor guy. I thought the suggestions to check his thyroid were excellent.

I'm certainly thinking of you and everything Bear is going through.



Brave said:


> Bless your heart for sharing this with me. Thank you so much!! The vet is optimistic if this is IMPA, Bear will live a long, happy, and fulfilled life.
> 
> In my googling research, I came across a thread about a bull-dog with IMPA and two partial tears in his ligaments and the unanimous opinion was to put him down and get a new one.... An 11 month old puppy!! Just reading that made me cry. Then there was a story about an Akita with it, she lived for a few days shy of her 3rd birthday. But it has all given me great ideas about managing it if it is indeed IMPA. Since that is what the vet is leaning towards, that is what I am preparing for. If Bear turns into a special-needs puppy he has come to the right home. Pills? We can take em. Monthly blood work? I will do it. Special supplements? All over it! Mobility assistance devices? We will learn them together. If it is IMPA, I read it may be genetic so I plan on letting the rescue know and letting the other puppy parents from his litter know.
> 
> Did your golden have the same activity levels as a normal dog? I don't want us on restriction for the rest of his life.
> 
> I wonder, also, if there is a test that can say "this is IMPA" versus "lets treat and see what happens".
> 
> Also, I read that with autoimmune disorders I should stop vaccinating completely in case it sets it off again. Of course, we have to talk to the vets and do more research - but it is something for me to think about.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Brave

Thanks you guys. I don't think I could have dealt with or handled this without the love and support we have been and still are receiving from our GRF family. 


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## OutWest

I just want to say that you are an awesome and dedicated dog-mom, and I bet will be an awesome and dedicated human-mom too.


----------



## Brave

Outwest - you are so sweet. I am blushing!!!! I was telling my DH last night about how odd it is for me to flip-flop back and forth on that idea. 4/2 i felt like the worst mom ever and now here we are on 4/11 and i feel on top of the world. 

We nailed down the date for the next appointment. May 13th at 10:00 am PDT. 


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## Mayve

Jen,

I am just catching up on this now. Wow...sorry you all are going through this. I am hoping you get an answer to all this sooner rather than later, although it appears that this diagnosis if it is IMPA can't be rushed...sigh. Give Bear a hug for me and as others have said, try to take care of yourself. You are a great dog mom....


----------



## Brave

Got an email back from the vet. They say it is unlikely a thyroid problem given how great his coat is, but we can always do a series of blood tests for a baseline. They did recommend it get seen by a vet because it might be mites. So we're going in at 9 am tomorrow to get him and my kitty checked out. The kitty has dark, goopy eye discharge and he started reverse sneezing last night so I think my old man caught a cold. 

His bunny hopping is much more prevalent now, but his walking limp seems to have gone away. 

The little punk kicked me out of my shower this morning. But I'll put that in the pictures section.


----------



## Brave

*it might be mites. Sorry. My fingers were typing while my brain was half asleep. 


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## Bentleysmom

Personally I'm hoping it's mites!!


----------



## Brave

Idk. All those mites crawling around my bed. Yuck!!!!! They don't think it's tied into his leg problem so we're just swimming in problems over here. I hope he just has the itches and scratched it too hard. But that begs to question --- what gives him the itches? We're in the process of switching food so is it the pro plan?? Is there pollen in the air?? Lord have mercy, i feel like pulling my hair out. 


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## Brave

You know what? Now that I think about it.... As gross as mites are lets hope for that. 


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## Bentleysmom

I totally understand where you're at. As bad as Ky's DX was I at least felt better knowing our enemy. Praying for Bear, and you ♥


----------



## Mirinde

Brave said:


> Got an email back from the vet. They say it is unlikely a thyroid problem given how great his coat is, but we can always do a series of blood tests for a baseline. They did recommend it get seen by a vet because it might be mites. So we're going in at 9 am tomorrow to get him and my kitty checked out. The kitty has dark, goopy eye discharge and he started reverse sneezing last night so I think my old man caught a cold.
> 
> His bunny hopping is much more prevalent now, but his walking limp seems to have gone away.
> 
> The little punk kicked me out of my shower this morning. But I'll put that in the pictures section.


For what it's worth, Iorek has a phenomenal coat (thankfully, it's one of his saving graces) but tested well below normal ranges for Dr. Dodd's testing. Hypothyroidism is a range and Bear is still very young... he may just simply not be at the point of showing all the classic symptoms, but may be having enough issues to contribute to what you have going on. I would suggest shipping out the serum for testing if you can


----------



## Brave

Mirinde said:


> For what it's worth, Iorek has a phenomenal coat (thankfully, it's one of his saving graces) but tested well below normal ranges for Dr. Dodd's testing. Hypothyroidism is a range and Bear is still very young... he may just simply not be at the point of showing all the classic symptoms, but may be having enough issues to contribute to what you have going on. I would suggest shipping out the serum for testing if you can


Do you know what the range is? I've been googling but I think I am not doing it right or missing the info. I have to talk to the husband tonight about money. Always fun. I think I'll do the blood tests just to have the info but idk if DH will agree with me. So cross your fingers.  


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## OutWest

Brave said:


> Do you know what the range is? I've been googling but I think I am not doing it right or missing the info. I have to talk to the husband tonight about money. Always fun. I think I'll do the blood tests just to have the info but idk if DH will agree with me. So cross your fingers.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I was told by folks on here to do the test when the dogs has not been on steroids for several weeks. Idk if that's true for other meds. But I guess the "purer" the blood is, the more accurate the test results.


----------



## Brave

OutWest said:


> I was told by folks on here to do the test when the dogs has not been on steroids for several weeks. Idk if that's true for other meds. But I guess the "purer" the blood is, the more accurate the test results.


Thanks! I never thought of that. Does Rimadyl count as a steroid? If so we can wait until the next appt. he will be off rimadyl for 17ish days. 


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## Karen519

*Brave*

I googled about mites.
Don't do anything without checking with your vet first.
Mites in Dogs | Causes, Prevention, Syptoms, Treatment


----------



## Dallas Gold

I just sat down and read your thread to catch up. I am so sorry you are going through these issues with Bear and I hope you get a good diagnosis and treatment plan for maximum comfort.

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## Mirinde

Brave said:


> Do you know what the range is? I've been googling but I think I am not doing it right or missing the info. I have to talk to the husband tonight about money. Always fun. I think I'll do the blood tests just to have the info but idk if DH will agree with me. So cross your fingers.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



I will PM you a screen shot of our values and ranges. Keep in mind, these are breed/age/etc specific when you go through Dr. Dodds so the ranges may be different for Bear.


----------



## Brave

Drumroll........

The verdict is SEASONAL ALLERGIES. Treatment is 50mg benedryl 3 times a day and eye ointment to heal the self-inflicted laceration. 


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## Tuco

Brave said:


> Drumroll........
> 
> The verdict is SEASONAL ALLERGIES. Treatment is 50mg benedryl 3 times a day and eye ointment to heal the self-inflicted laceration.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Forgive me as I just saw the thread now and haven't read any pages, seasonal allergies caused the struggling to get up?


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## Brave

No.... The seasonal allergies caused the latest symptoms. The losing fur around the eyes and the red bump turned bleeding laceration. We are still up in the air over the effusion and joint issue. 


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## Brave

He gets to be socked since we cannot find a soft e-collar.









He's saying "your kidding me here. Right??"


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## Dallas Gold

Brave said:


> He gets to be socked since we cannot find a soft e-collar.
> 
> 
> View attachment 176082
> 
> He's saying "your kidding me here. Right??"
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Are those socks staying on and not being chewed off?


----------



## Megora

^ I think this look says: "You know this is coming off when you're not looking, right?"


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## xoerika620xo

oh no jen, i am so sorry you guys keep going through things. that picture of Bear is adorable.


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## OutWest

I love the look on his face... That is priceless!


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## Davidrob2

Brave said:


> He gets to be socked since we cannot find a soft e-collar.
> 
> 
> View attachment 176082
> 
> He's saying "your kidding me here. Right??"
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Harry would gladly trade his soft e-collar for Bear's sock. On second thought we would have to put the sock in Harry's mouth to keep him from licking his diaper rash. On third thought, that might not be so bad since he's been barking and whining into the wee hours of the morning for the past two nights.


----------



## Brave

Yea.... The socks deal totally not working. He doesnt even have to chew at it to remove it. He jumped off the couch and the second his foot hit the floor, the sock slid off. I'm thinking of snaking a shoelace through it to make a drawstring. The good news is the benedryl is making him very biddable. He just spent the last 4 hours cuddled against me dreaming the dreams of physically active dogs. So the sock is a moot point atm. 


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## Brave

We're doing ok today. I just had to share this. Omg he is so cute. 










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## Thalie

Oh, Bear, you are such a sweet boy throughout all your tribulations.

For the sock, try a kid's size sock (it should come right above his ankle at most). Get some vet wrap (Petco & Petsmart have it; it sticks to itself but not to hair so it does not hurt when you remove it). Put the sock on, use the vetwrap in a criss-cross pattern on the foot and under the paw. Make sure that some of the pattern in on the hair because it will help keep the whole thing in place. Vetwrap is a bit elastic so do not wrap too tight; you do not want to cut off blood flow. 

Glad you have a firm diagnosis on at least part of Bear's problem. The 50 mg of Benadryl three times a day should help both with the allergies and to keep him mellow so he takes to "rest" for his knee more easily. 

Be a good boy, Bear. Rest, don't scratch, refrain from the zoomies and you'll be better soon. All good wishes from here.

PS : Rymadil is not at all in the steroids class of medicines.


----------



## Karen519

*Bear*

Bear is so adorable! Praying he feels better soon!


----------



## Brave

Today has been ok. His limp is back. I wonder if the Rimadyl was really helping and I messed up by stopping it cold turkey. I want to make sure he can keep him food down before restarting it. Tonight he got full kibble plus his fish oil, vitamin e, glucosomine, and benedryl. He has been having some wet burps since he ate and he is getting clingy which *might* mean his tummy is upset but not sure. It's s con toss when he doesn't feel good. Some times he's is super clingy and other times really distant.


----------



## Brave

We're doing ok this morning. Status quo, I suppose. He kept his food down last night and this morning. But my champion pill taker is refusing to take benedryl, so they get smuggled into a hot dog. 

Bear's rescue just dropped me an email asking how he is doing, so I filled them in. This is the first they will have heard about his problems, because I wanted answers before informing them. It felt a bit awkward retelling everything that we've gone through in the past month. And I hope they don't make any demands on us regarding his care. 


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## *Laura*

I'm glad Bear is doing okay today and keeping his food down. (Bear looks so much like my Buddy - especially in the picture on the last page)


----------



## OutWest

Brave said:


> We're doing ok this morning. Status quo, I suppose. He kept his food down last night and this morning. But my champion pill taker is refusing to take benedryl, so they get smuggled into a hot dog.
> 
> Bear's rescue just dropped me an email asking how he is doing, so I filled them in. This is the first they will have heard about his problems, because I wanted answers before informing them. It felt a bit awkward retelling everything that we've gone through in the past month. And I hope they don't make any demands on us regarding his care.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I don't know how they could make demands of you... You've done everything possible to get him diagnosed and treated. You've done far more than many pet owners would do. I doubt they could do more. Glad his food is staying down!


----------



## Brave

OutWest said:


> I don't know how they could make demands of you... You've done everything possible to get him diagnosed and treated. You've done far more than many pet owners would do. I doubt they could do more. Glad his food is staying down!


My mind was fixating on the contract I signed when we adopted Bear that said the rescue can repossess Bear at any time at their discretion. Yikes!!!! 

Turns out it was a non-issue, to paraphrase, it is likely just a limp. /facepalm. 

I am beginning to think you are right. I know many dog owners and more than I care to admit have dogs that limp. Some seek treatment without determining the cause, some ignore it, and others know what happened and try to manage it as best they can. In my head, I cannot fault them for doing what they feel is in their animals best interests. In my heart, I know that Bear deserves the best and come HE- double hockey sticks or high water I will do my best to make sure he is taken care of to MY best ability. Just don't tell my husband how much we've spent so far. That will be OUR little secret. 


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----------



## Bob Dylan

He is so cute I hope he feels better soon!


----------



## Buddy's mom forever

I'm just catching up on your posts. Bear is so cute, hope he is doing well.


----------



## Brave

Thanks!! Not really any change. I took some video on Wednesday but haven't figured out how to post it. Once i do, I will put it up here. Its on my iPad and Computer. I think I need to make a youtube account and upload it there (?). 


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## Karen519

*Bear*

Is Bear getting around o.k.?
Hope he's not in any pain.


----------



## Brave

Yea. His limp is 99% gone now. When he runs he bunny hops 70% of the time. We've restarted the Rimadyl last night so far no throw up. 


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## Davidrob2

Brave said:


> Yea. His limp is 99% gone now. When he runs he bunny hops 70% of the time. We've restarted the Rimadyl last night so far no throw up.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


That's very encouraging.


----------



## Brave

Davidrob2 said:


> That's very encouraging.


It truly is. I am really hopeful that the worst is behind us and we can move on and put this in the past. We still need to do the cortisone trial if the vet agrees on the 13th and we'll see where that takes us. 


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## goldenwarn

I just read through your post!!!! I am glad you are getting answers and look forward to see him get better!!!!!! You are an amazingly devoted mommy!!!!!


----------



## OutWest

Brave said:


> Thanks!! Not really any change. I took some video on Wednesday but haven't figured out how to post it. Once i do, I will put it up here. Its on my iPad and Computer. I think I need to make a youtube account and upload it there (?).
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Jen, yes, set up an account, upload the video, then insert the link into the post here. 

Glad he's walking around OK.


----------



## Brave

YouTube and I are having a disagreement over logging in. Ha!! But I want to share some good news. I just tried full leg extensions and he didn't jerk!!!!!! I am taking this as a sign of improvement. Tomorrow we'll be going for our walks again. We'll be doing a 2 mile charity walk on the 4th with my work and some friends. I cannot wait!!! It's going to be awesome. 


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## Brave

We've stopped giving the Rimadyl for the past week and he threw up tonight. So that is two times in 10 days (?) :no:

I'm at a loss as to what is causing this. Could it be the new food? He's been eating the pro-plan at various percentages for 3 weeks now. and he's been on 50/50 mix with the BB for a week without any problems. 

Other than that -- he's doing the same. Here's the video I took. I decided to use a different website to host it, since youtube and I are maintaining icy relations. Pardon the sad state of the backyard... it's a work in progress. 


---- embedding didin't work... click here for the video: http://vimeo.com/64520645


----------



## Ksdenton

Aww I love the video. He's so cute and unique. Pretty boy. 


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## xoerika620xo

Love that video of bear. He seems to like grass just like Chester I don't get it lol. 


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## Brave

He is my angel. This morning he didn't want to eat the kibble with water so as I was fixing rice to give instead, I tried just dried kibble and he ate it. I wonder if the water is adding too much bulk too quickly to his tummy and making it upset. He ate all the dry kibble (only 1cup this time in the same 50/50 ration with pro plan.) We'll see how it goes 


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## Bentleysmom

So cute!! What's the name of that ball?? Because as you know Bentley doesn't have enough balls 

I hope you can get to the bottom of this soon!!!


----------



## Karen519

*Bear*

I just love Bear. Glad to hear his limping is almost gone.
Maybe try giving him the kibble dry.
Does he drink water?


----------



## Brave

Bentleysmom said:


> So cute!! What's the name of that ball?? Because as you know Bentley doesn't have enough balls
> 
> I hope you can get to the bottom of this soon!!!


That is the chuck-it Kick Fetch. I love it. I cannot believe he can get his mouth over the wide part. Lol!!!!


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## Brave

Karen519 said:


> I just love Bear. Glad to hear his limping is almost gone.
> Maybe try giving him the kibble dry.
> Does he drink water?


He ate the kibble dry. And drank a bit of water before and after. He's got a few wet burps but no vomiting. Yay!!! I've got two cups of rice ready in case he needs it. 


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----------



## mudEpawz

ive been following the thread but haven't had too much advise to share. i loved watching bear play! He is soooooo cute. Chloe missed the retriever gene... I through the ball and gives me this look like "why the heck did you do that". It looks like Bear was having a blast running and playing. I hope he feels better soon.


----------



## Davidrob2

Bear is adorable. Harry loves his kick fetch too. We just came in from a 20 minute "soccer" game in lieu of our afternoon walk (it's COLD outside - I didn't want to get too far from my warm house).


----------



## OutWest

He's looking really good. I can see the bunny hopping you mention but otherwise he looks comfortable moving around. He's such a golden boy... It makes me laugh. He got his color from his dad, but the rest of him is all goofball Golden... His coat looks great.

I wouldn't worry too much about the vomiting if he's eating and drinking fine... Sometimes, for reasons unknown to humans, they just throw up! LOL. Such a sweet cute boy...


----------



## Brave

OutWest said:


> He's looking really good. I can see the bunny hopping you mention but otherwise he looks comfortable moving around. He's such a golden boy... It makes me laugh. He got his color from his dad, but the rest of him is all goofball Golden... His coat looks great.
> 
> I wouldn't worry too much about the vomiting if he's eating and drinking fine... Sometimes, for reasons unknown to humans, they just throw up! LOL. Such a sweet cute boy...


Thanks! Last night he really freaked me out. He was laying in bed with me (i was propped up on my stomach, reading). He crawled over to me had a couple really wet burps, then all of a sudden his whole body wet rigid (tense), started shaking, and he started drooling. I got up and moved him to the floor, yelled for my DH that something was wrong. Dh comes running into the hallway right as Bear threw up all of dinner, once then again. Afterwards, he seemed a bit lethargic but we didn't feed him again until morning. This morning he had solid poop but near the end it was runny. I will keep my eye on him and his eating over the next few days and if the vomiting or runny poop continues we'll head back to the vet. 

After all of that last night. Bear wanted to cuddle. I was laying half on my back and half on my side, and he crawled up, put his paws and legs over my arm, put his head right over my heart and fell asleep. Honest to God, my heart swelled with emotion over that. 


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## Max's Dad

Bear sure looks good in the video! He has gotten big! That is a cool ball. Hope he eats and keeps the food down.


----------



## Brave

So far so good. He kept dinner down and is pooping firm logs. I think I will be breaking up his supplements between breakfast and dinner and maybe going back to 3 meals a day for a while. This boy is keeping me on my toes. Lol!!


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## Brave

This morning i gave 1 cup bb (old food) and 1/2 cup cooked rice. He kept everything down and is normal on activity, alertness, etc. still pooping on schedule. I emailed the vet to see if they think his new food isn't agreeing with him. I have a new thread going about changing from a 12% fat to 20% fat and if that causes nausea. I know when i eat good then grab fast food, my stomach pays the price, so i wonder if its something similar. Not that i am comparing PP's quality to mcdonalds.... Just the ratio of fat. 

I might just go back to BB LBA chicken and rice. Which is the same 12% fat. 


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## OutWest

I'd be surprised if that was the problem, but I'm no nutrition expert. I just think youngsters need more fat in their diets, and the 20% seems reasonable. I guess it could upset his stomach, except as I recall you've been giving it to him for a few weeks now.


----------



## Brave

OutWest said:


> I'd be surprised if that was the problem, but I'm no nutrition expert. I just think youngsters need more fat in their diets, and the 20% seems reasonable. I guess it could upset his stomach, except as I recall you've been giving it to him for a few weeks now.


Yea. 3.5 weeks now. 

Week #1 he was getting 1.25 cup bb and .25 cup pp ---- ave fat % is 13.3%

Week#2 was 1 cup bb and .50 cup PP ------ ave fat = 14.6%

Week#3 is 50/50 - .75 cup of each ---- ave fat = 16% 


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----------



## Brave

Vet reviewed the video and my long long letter detailing everything. She thinks the fat content has nothing to do with his vomiting. She thinks, given his age, he ate something inappropriate. We are to discontinue the Rimadyl (already doing that) and if he becomes lethargic or loses his appetite to bring him in immediately. I am hesitant to think he ate something inappropriate since it happened so far between and he is having normal poops. But for now, that is what we have. Dinner was .5 cup bb, .5 cup pp and .5 cup rice. He kept it down.  I am giving his supplements 3-4 hours after dinner, hopefully that gives his stomach a chance to empty. 


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----------



## Claudia M

Brave said:


> Thanks! Last night he really freaked me out. He was laying in bed with me (i was propped up on my stomach, reading). He crawled over to me had a couple really wet burps, then all of a sudden his whole body wet rigid (tense), started shaking, and he started drooling. I got up and moved him to the floor, yelled for my DH that something was wrong. Dh comes running into the hallway right as Bear threw up all of dinner, once then again.


has he ever done that before? The rigidness, shaking, drooling? Have you by any chance described that to the vet?


----------



## Brave

Claudia M said:


> has he ever done that before? The rigidness, shaking, drooling? Have you by any chance described that to the vet?


This hasn't happened before. I don't remember it happening the first time he threw up. I described everything to the vet. 


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----------



## Claudia M

I did not want to mention in the middle of the night but what you described above I interpreted as a petit mal seizure. 
I would ask the vet and then just keep an eye on him if it does happen again.


----------



## Brave

Thank you. I will definitely keep that in mind. As soon as you brought it up, it dawned on me that it sounds like a seizure. But at the time it happened, it honestly felt like he was just vomiting. I have had it happen a couple times where I shake and salivate during an especially hard retching. Unfortunately, as with everything else going on, it seems we have to "wait and see". Make adjustments, see if we can eliminate possible causes and observe when it happens. Which sucks because if it is seizures, i don't want my baby suffering. I will see if there are google videos of these types of seizures. 


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----------



## Brave

I just emailed the vet again to see if they think it might have been a seizure and what to look for if it happens again to determine if it is simply vomiting or if its a seizure. He was able to stand while shaking and was responsive, which goes against what I recall of a classmate seizing and what i see on youtube. But better to be safe than sorry. 


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----------



## Karen519

*Brave*

Glad you emld. to ask. Can you call them?


----------



## Claudia M

I am glad you talked to the vet - I don't mean to freak you out more!  

Petit Mal Seizures in Dogs | eHow.com

just keep an eye on him. Our Trooper had them and at first they weren't even noticed.


----------



## Brave

Karen519 said:


> Glad you emld. to ask. Can you call them?


I could call but all they would do is tell me to come in for an exam, or if I called my contact directly, she would write it all down and call me back whenever she gets an answer. The never really let me talk to a vet about something over the phone. 


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----------



## dogloverforlife

Hoping it was not a seizure!

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----------



## Jen & Brew

Brave said:


> You make me giggle. We're down to two possibilities.... He tore the ligaments in both his knees or he has IMPA (an autoimmune disease). We have to wait 3 more weeks then re-evaluate. Hopefully by then this is nailed down and we can start treatment. I just want to curl up in bed and sleep for the next 3 weeks.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I feel so bad because I haven't been on here much, so again I've missed everything. I have doubts that it's torn ligaments in both legs, I'm thinking growing pains, Brew just went through this not with his back legs but with his front. All was good, just growing pains, so we had to keep quiet for about a week or so and gradually build back up to the rough housing of the dog park.

Poor Bear tho, now he's not able to keep his food down? Has the vet tried him on gastro food? Does his tummy swell up a bit after he eats and stay swollen until he vomits? I'm wondering if it could be pancrentitis? Mind you that probably would have been the first this the vet checked for. Or maybe giardia? Sorry if I'm spelling this wrong. 

Also, I'm not thinking that was a seizure. That was a "Uh Oh I'm gonna puke" shiver and shake.

I hope all works out, I watched the video and he looks like a happy healthy guy. Maybe if something simple like an obsession to eating grass?


----------



## Brave

Jen & Brew said:


> Poor Bear tho, now he's not able to keep his food down? Has the vet tried him on gastro food? Does his tummy swell up a bit after he eats and stay swollen until he vomits? I'm wondering if it could be pancrentitis? Mind you that probably would have been the first this the vet checked for. Or maybe giardia? Sorry if I'm spelling this wrong.
> 
> Also, I'm not thinking that was a seizure. That was a "Uh Oh I'm gonna puke" shiver and shake.
> 
> I hope all works out, I watched the video and he looks like a happy healthy guy. Maybe if something simple like an obsession to eating grass?


No need to feel bad.  

On Sunday when he threw up last - his stomach was of normal size and felt normal from the outside until he started vomiting. When he started vomiting, I picked him up and stood him on the floor, wrapped my arm around his middle, and at that point his stomach was swollen (not bloated) and hard to press. After he vomited, it was back to normal. 

DH thinks the water is adding too much bulk, so we've stopped moistening the food and so far he has kept it down. We're still mixing in rice though.  

Hugs!!!! He is such a happy boy 99% of the time, i just want to make him better with a snap of my finger. Its hard for me to believe that so much could hit at once. 



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## Jen & Brew

What about Gastro food? Has he been on that yet? I've seen that food work wonders.


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## Jen & Brew

It's a vet brand food, it's nutritious and SUPER gentle on the tummies. Usually when a dog comes into a vet clinic sick with an upset tummy that's the food the vet will feed while the dog in in their care, and it's almost textbook to send the dog home on that diet until the upset goes away. It's so gentle, like baby food.


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## Brave

He hasn't been on any prescription diet yet. He has only thrown up twice this month. The vet thinks he just got into something inappropriate and has garbage gut. 


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## Jen & Brew

Ah, I see, LOL, I guess I should have read the entire thread! Anyways! Now ya know! I thought he was throwing up like everyday! Ooops!


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## Brave

Jen & Brew said:


> Ah, I see, LOL, I guess I should have read the entire thread! Anyways! Now ya know! I thought he was throwing up like everyday! Ooops!


Lol. Its all good.  i've a few different threads going around too.  you should check out his pictures in the puppy forum of him at the beach. 


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## Jen & Brew

I will check it out!


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## dborgers

He's an absolute, total doll! What a lucky boy he is to have a mommy like you 

You'll get this figured out. Then you can enjoyably spend the rest of his life treating him as you do: like the prince of a boy he is


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## Brave

Just an update. We spent 2 hours at the beach yesterday and about 3 hours afterwards his limp came back. As of this morning his limp is slight if not totally gone. He is having some pudding poop this morning but I think its a combination of the excitement, salt and perhaps some pain in the knee. I will keep an eye on it as always and take him in if it doesn't firm up. He was a little off his food this morning too, but he finished it within 15 minutes. His activity level is normal for having such a big day yesterday, he is drinking plenty of water and keeping food down.  

Overall I think we're doing grand. We see the vet again in two weeks. 


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## Karen519

*Bear*

So glad Bear had fun!! I think the salt might be causing the loose stool.


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## Brave

Yay! We got formed (albeit soft) poo!!!! I didn't get a chance to start a bland diet since he started the diaherea right at breakfast and my dh forgot the rice at dinner. But alls well, it seems. He's active and hydrated. His limp is still there, but not truly pronounced. He does have a bit of a struggle getting his feet under him but nothing like at the beginning. I am so glad that is over. It was so hard watching him have the "omg! I gotta crap now" then spend 15 minutes wandering the yard in a poop stance trying to get it all out. 


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## Brave

I thought he was getting better but tonight he is back to having problems getting his feet under him. No limp though. I sat down on the floor and he ran over to me and shoved his right leg in my hands (totally looks like he's going to pee on me). We sat down and rubbed both legs out and stretched the legs out. He kept giving me his left leg. Idk if it was more convenient or he wanted it to have the most rubs. He isn't showing any signs of pain. I thought for a minute he was but he only looked at me when I stop rubbing his knees. Only 6 more days until we see the vet again. It is nights like this that break my heart. 

During his leg rubs..... Such sad eyes.


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## SandyK

My heart aches for you in the not knowing what is happening with your boy. I keep hoping that maybe it is growing pains or something that will stop for him at some point. However, it made me smile to know he comes over to you for leg rubs...this may continue forever...spoiled!!!


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## Pixie

Sorry to hear about Bear's leg! I had the feeling it was improving. 6 days and you will find more options on how to deal with this!

In the meanwhile keep making that boy happy and rub away


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## Brave

Woke up to him getting stuck trying to get into bed. His front end was up but his back end gave out and his legs slid between the mattress and the foot-board. It's like his back legs are there but don't work or don't work well. He is back to getting his front end up and just dragging his butt around wherever he wants to go. He just leapt off the bed only using his front legs, so when he landed his butt just hit the ground until he managed to get his legs moving. I have crated him for his safety. The doctor told us at the last visit that he cannot have pain pills or anti-inflammatory pills for the last 10 days before his next appointment in case it masks a symptom. My heart is completely broken watching him struggle because I feel helpless. I cannot even give him a pain pill. 

I am going to see if the ortho vet can see us sooner. It just seems cruel to make him wait 6 more days like this. 


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## Brave

Just got off the phone with the vet office. The front desk ladies have no clue what to do so they took a message and told me to bring him in as a walk-in at 9 am PDT. I called Jaime the assistant and left her a message and emailed her as well hoping that she gets one before 9 am and makes sure the doctor can see us. 

I cannot stop crying 
I feel hysterical and raw and I just want to scream and scream and scream at everybody because nobody seems to realize how important it is for us to see the Doctor today. 

Like, HELLO!!!!!!!!! I wouldn't be calling at 2:30 in the MORNING if this wasn't URGENT. 

Its pouring outside and i don't want to be left alone. Idk if I can handle all of this right now by myself.......

My DH is going to see if he can stay home with me. I am a mess. 


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## Vhuynh2

I'm so, so sorry to read this.. I really hope you get an appointment ASAP. You're doing the best you can for little Bear. 


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## Karen519

*Brave*

Brave

Yes, see if they can squeeze him in any sooner. If you can be available on short notice you can tell them they should call you if there is a cancellation.

I am so sorry this happened to Bear!

*BRAVE: SO GLAD YOU GOT AN APPT. *

When he can't walk like this morning, how long does it take before he can start walking again?
Did they rule out pano?


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## inge

I am so very sorry to read this...it is so horrible when you feel helpless.


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## Davidrob2

Poor Bear. I am so sorry to read this. It seemed like he had turned a corner and was really on the mend. Hopefully you both have been able to get some sleep and will feel better when the sun comes up. Bear couldn't ask for a more caring mom.


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## Pixie

I am so sorry to read this.
Take a deep bread, you know you are doing all you can for Bear! You can be brave for both of you. I believe soon you will figure out what is really the issue behind all this and you will be able to help Bear even further!

My thoughts go to you


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## Ksdenton

Oh my you made me cry just reading this. I can feel your panic, frustration, and helplessness. This is horrible and I hope you can get him seen and some answers soon. I too would be freaking out. I know you are doing everything you can. Just keep being persistent like you are. Good luck. 


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## Brave

He is still having trouble getting up, but it doesn't seem AS BAD as last night. His legs are stiff and it seems he is favoring one or both legs, but I am having a hard time telling which one since it seems it's the left and then out of no where it is the right. He is very loving and joyful and happy this morning. 

I am doing better as well. DH stayed home and took care of me. My little Casey Cat came and stood watch over me, drying my tears off my face. 

The vet ruled out pano b/c it wasn't apparent in either x-rays and it didn't explain the fluid in his knees. 

Bear got away from me and jumped into bed this morning but wasn't inclined to move around after that. I'm uploading a video of him walking this morning, it's shoddy work but at least it's a visual. Once it's uploaded, I'll post it. 

In the meantime, this is Bear from last night and this morning.


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## inge

Keep your spirits up! I'll be watching for updates.


----------



## Megora

Jen - please take it easy. It could be he is just this bad based on some over-exertion over the weekend? 

We went through all of this with our Danny who similarly had multiple diagnoses and zero absolute conclusions despite seeing several vets, having a lot of physical exams and xrays done on his front end. In the end, we believe he had both pano and elbow dysplasia, but at one point we had another vet also claiming he had OCD in shoulders as well. 

Like you, we had to see a young dog who should be bouncing around and recklessly risking his life with his youthful acrobatics barely being able to walk across a room without stopping and picking his front end off the floor because of the pain. 

We did not have surgery done, but that dog sounded up after he reached 15-18 months or so. While he always had bad elbows, he did not have a lifetime of pain and disability. So there is hope for anyone. 

From the sounds of it, you are going through this with Bear's rear end. Whether its his hips or knees or combination of the two - I truly hope you get an answer soon, but please always keep in mind that it probably is worst right now because he's young and growing. 

I would immediately rule out any tick borne diseases and discuss surgeries if it's possible. But really take the time right now to baby him and get him comfortable. The odds are, he is gradually adjusting and will learn his limitations. Your role right now is to really focus on limiting him to what won't cause him to "pay" later. 

With Danny - we knew that if he went for a hike on Saturday, he would be stiff the next morning. Didn't mean we didn't take him hiking, but we certainly got him ascription that next day to help limit the pain. That obviously isn't going to help you now while they prepare to get him in to be examined, but it may be ahead of you - and again, maintaining and controlling the pain is possible. 

Try to keep your chin up.


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## Max's Dad

So sorry to hear this news. I was hoping Bear had turned a corner. Take care, Jen. Maybe there will be some answers soon.


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## Brave

Here's a video of Bear walking this morning. It's grainy and wobbly.

2013.05.07 - Bear with stiff legs on Vimeo


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## Brave

Megora said:


> Jen - please take it easy. It could be he is just this bad based on some over-exertion over the weekend?
> 
> We went through all of this with our Danny who similarly had multiple diagnoses and zero absolute conclusions despite seeing several vets, having a lot of physical exams and xrays done on his front end. In the end, we believe he had both pano and elbow dysplasia, but at one point we had another vet also claiming he had OCD in shoulders as well.
> 
> Like you, we had to see a young dog who should be bouncing around and recklessly risking his life with his youthful acrobatics barely being able to walk across a room without stopping and picking his front end off the floor because of the pain.
> 
> We did not have surgery done, but that dog sounded up after he reached 15-18 months or so. While he always had bad elbows, he did not have a lifetime of pain and disability. So there is hope for anyone.
> 
> From the sounds of it, you are going through this with Bear's rear end. Whether its his hips or knees or combination of the two - I truly hope you get an answer soon, but please always keep in mind that it probably is worst right now because he's young and growing.
> 
> I would immediately rule out any tick borne diseases and discuss surgeries if it's possible. But really take the time right now to baby him and get him comfortable. The odds are, he is gradually adjusting and will learn his limitations. Your role right now is to really focus on limiting him to what won't cause him to "pay" later.
> 
> With Danny - we knew that if he went for a hike on Saturday, he would be stiff the next morning. Didn't mean we didn't take him hiking, but we certainly got him ascription that next day to help limit the pain. That obviously isn't going to help you now while they prepare to get him in to be examined, but it may be ahead of you - and again, maintaining and controlling the pain is possible.
> 
> Try to keep your chin up.


I am not very good at hiding my emotions.  we've ruled out tick borne illnesses already based on the cytology of the fluid in his knees. I was expecting some sort of backlash from our walk on Saturday, but his limp went away by Sunday morning so to see such a drastic change last night really shook me up. I think because we still don't know why it happens I get more shaken up. If this were a commonplace thing that we've dealt with for months and years I can totally see used being calm and collected and just dealing with it. I got my hopes up thinking we were finally done with this and it was over and suddenly we're back to 3/20 all over again. 

I am trying to keep my chin up, I promise. Things seem harder in the middle of the night. Ya know? You have no friends to call because everyone is asleep and the vets were no help, which just pushed my buttons. I think we'll be starting cortisone injections now. That was the next step in the doctors plan. 

Thank you everyone for being here with us (and for putting up with my crazy middle-of-the-night ravings.) 


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## Dallas Gold

I am so sorry Bear is not doing well. I have no ideas but just want you to know I totally understand your emotions and anxiety. It is so hard when there are no answers or a plan. 

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## Bentleysmom

Poor Bear, and you. I know going through this with Ky it's so hard mentally. I'm praying they find a solution for him soon ♥


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## Max's Dad

Bear looks a little stiff in the video, but I think overall he looks okay.


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## Brave

Verdict is in. He has a full tear of his cruciate ligament in one knee (left I think she said) with some slight instability in his other knee which may rupture at a later date. They want to do a TTA on Thursday. I asked for time to get a second opinion and to research the procedure. It'll cost us $3,200+ per knee. 


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## Mirinde

I'm so sorry, Jen  Not knowing what is going on is such a huge source of anxiety and then for it to turn out to be one of the bigger things that could go wrong is just not fair.


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## inge

Wow...I am relieved you finally have an answer, but this is big....have you asked what the future will be? I mean, he is a young dog. What is the prognosis?


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## Megora

Jen - you may want to start a new thread with questions about the ACL.... I know there are members who have gone through this and may have suggestions. This thread being as long as it is, they might have missed this.

Have you talked with the rescue where he came from? (I vaguely assumed he came from a rescue) Any chance they could help at all with the funds? <- I know crazy question to ask, but considering he's only 8-9 months old, he should not be dealing with an ACL this early.


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## Max's Dad

I am so sorry to hear this news, Jen. 


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## Mayve

Jen,

I am so sorry to hear the diagnosis...yet can't help thinking that finally knowing what it is it can be dealt with. Not meaning to sound cold either...I would be devasted emmotionally and scared financially....so many things run through ones mind. I am sending hugs to you and Bear as well as all the possitive energy I can.


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## Davidrob2

I'm so sorry to hear this. My thoughts are with you and Bear.


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## Ksdenton

Ouch! This hurts many different ways. I agree that it's good to finally know what is wrong so you can at least stop with the guessing and now just focus on the fixing or improving of his situation. I'm really sorry you're going through this. 


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## Tayla's Mom

Jen, I'm so sorry. I am just catching up on this. A second opinion is great, but check around to find the best surgeon in your area. Many years ago, 12 I think, Cheyenne had knee surgery for a similar issue. At that time we had just adopted her, she was such a fearful girl. We had the surgery and she recovered incredibly quickly and up until a week before she had symptoms of a brain tumor in December of 2011 she was still running full out to chase squirrels in the yard. Keep us posted and try not to worry too much. It's terrible to see them in pain, but surgery should do wonders. We didn't have it back then, and I don't know your circumstances, but now if you need to you can apply for Care Credit. We had to do that with Jesse before she died. We will be paying it off for a year, but it does help a little.


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## Bentleysmom

I'm sorry Jen but I'm glad you now have a starting point. He is so young I wasn't expecting that dx.


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## OutWest

I'm so sorry Bears hurting, and that you got that diagnosis... I suggest calling around and getting prices for the surgery. Not ideal,way to find a doctor, but I'm thinking you can bring the price down a bit. Also call your local SPCA and ask them if there are low cost surgeries available in your area. Good luck and {{{hugs}}}. Keep us posted.


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## OutWest

Jen, I did a google search for "low cost veterinary care San Diego" and came up with some possibilities for you. Check these out--might be help for you:

SNAP San Diego - Links
SDASF - Pet Assistance
Humane Vet Hospital of San Diego – Veterinarian, San Diego, CA USA :: Home | Welcome to Humane Veterinary Hospital Your Veterinarian, San Diego, CA Contact Us! 619-475-3000

I hope this helps! This is such a sad situation--Bear is too young for all of this. Can you at least give him some pain meds at this point?

P.S. Keep your spirits up.


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## Dallas Gold

I am so sorry to hear of this diagnosis. Knowing what it is I have even more empathy for what you've been dealing with. My Barkley suffered a total cruciate tear in the final days of his Hemangiosarcoma fight and it was traumatizing to me to see him struggle so much. Poor Bear- he's just a baby and it isn't fair.


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## Heart O'Gold

So sorry to hear this about Bear. I hope you are able to find good affordable care for him, and that he heals fully.


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## OutWest

Just checking in on Bear. How is he doing tonight?


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## mudEpawz

*HUGS!!*

I am just getting caught up on the thread now. I am so sorry to read about Bear's diagnosis. When will you be getting the 2nd opinion? 

Thinking of you guys.


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## ntcoovert

Prayers!!!


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## Brave

Oh you guys today has just been a bloody rollarcoaster. :uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:

I have so much to look into and research and THANKFULLY for you guys I have a whole crew of people in our corner. 

Bear is doing ok, tonight. I didn't get clarification about if I can give him any pain pills, but he doesn't appear to be in pain tonight. Against my own selfish wishes, I will crate him tonight to keep him contained and off his legs. I will email my vet and get some clarification on the pain pills. I did talk to her about his throwing up the Rimadyl and she didn't feel the benefit was worth the risk. We can re-evaluate at any time, of course. 

I was a bit abrupt earlier. My work was pushing and pushing me to get my butt to the office so I was trying to give an update in my spare time. 

I wonder alot of things.... did I cause this? Is this a result of his early neutering? Why Bear??!?!?! But I am trying to put all of that aside because I am where I am and no amount of wondering is going to get me any other place than where I am. 

I'll be honest. I cannot afford the $3700 (this includes the two post-op x-rays) surgery and HEAVEN FORBID if he blows his other knee out (they told me 40% of dogs who tear one knee will tear the other knee as well). But I will find a way to make it work. I will reach out to Bear's rescue and see if they can help, or at least point me into a direction. I plan to fundraise. I've already had a couple co-workers offer to help my fundraise and I can share it on FB and talk to my family. I am going to look into selling my car (she's broken at the moment.... but maybe I can sell her for parts or to someone who wants to fix her up). I'm going to find a way to cut SOMETHING out of our monthly expenses. I don't do anything frivoulous as it is (no movies, no pedicures, only one hair cut a year for me and I cut my DHs hair myself, no cable, no home phone, cell phones on bare minimum plans) but I will find something. I don't really have any jewelry to sell and what I do have is very sentimental to me, but I am sure there is something we own we can pawn. I'm looking at pushing my orthodontic surgery off until the new year at least. DH is looking at getting a second job to help get us through this. I planned to cxl my trip to see my dad in July because we can use the money elsewhere but my brother offered to pay the way for both myself, my DH and Bear as long as we take our car (better mileage) and he gets to ride shotgun always.

The kindness everyone has shown me has taken my breath away. I cannot express how much you all mean to me and how much your support and words touch me. 

I want to see what the pros and cons are to each option on the table (I'll start a new thread for that). Can we try a conservative approach and put him on strict bed rest wearing a brace for 3-4 months and see if his body will develop scar tissue and restabilize his knee on his own. If this approach DOES NOT have a chance of harming him further, I think this might be a good idea. If it works, then we've saved a couple thousand and if it doesn't, we're only out a couple hundred more and it might give us time to fundraise/save up for the surgery. We have a CareCredit account, but I don't know if I can pay off $3700 in a year or two (that's 
$308-$155 a month) plus whatever we have to pay for therapy. Swimming rehab is $75 an hour last I recall.

The only really horrific thing that has happened about all of this is someone asked me if I was going to put Bear down because of this. I was shocked and appalled! I will NOT go bankraupt over this :crossfing (Goodness knows I will bleed every last penny dry until they BEG me to spend them) but that doesn't mean i need to kill my little 61 pound, almost 9 month old puppy. 

If there is a will, there is a way.... and bygone my will is stronger than my limitations. I WILL get this done and Bear WILL get what he needs and recover 100% and we will spend the next 14+ years together without ANY health problems.


----------



## SandyK

I am so sorry for Bear's diagnosis. I truly did not expect to read that when he is so young. I do wonder why it didn't show in earlier tests. However, now you can take a deep breath and figure how to help Bear get better. Hugs to Bear!!


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## Karen519

*Bear*



Brave said:


> Oh you guys today has just been a bloody rollarcoaster. :uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:
> 
> I have so much to look into and research and THANKFULLY for you guys I have a whole crew of people in our corner.
> 
> Bear is doing ok, tonight. I didn't get clarification about if I can give him any pain pills, but he doesn't appear to be in pain tonight. Against my own selfish wishes, I will crate him tonight to keep him contained and off his legs. I will email my vet and get some clarification on the pain pills. I did talk to her about his throwing up the Rimadyl and she didn't feel the benefit was worth the risk. We can re-evaluate at any time, of course.
> 
> I was a bit abrupt earlier. My work was pushing and pushing me to get my butt to the office so I was trying to give an update in my spare time.
> 
> I wonder alot of things.... did I cause this? Is this a result of his early neutering? Why Bear??!?!?! But I am trying to put all of that aside because I am where I am and no amount of wondering is going to get me any other place than where I am.
> 
> I'll be honest. I cannot afford the $3700 (this includes the two post-op x-rays) surgery and HEAVEN FORBID if he blows his other knee out (they told me 40% of dogs who tear one knee will tear the other knee as well). But I will find a way to make it work. I will reach out to Bear's rescue and see if they can help, or at least point me into a direction. I plan to fundraise. I've already had a couple co-workers offer to help my fundraise and I can share it on FB and talk to my family. I am going to look into selling my car (she's broken at the moment.... but maybe I can sell her for parts or to someone who wants to fix her up). I'm going to find a way to cut SOMETHING out of our monthly expenses. I don't do anything frivoulous as it is (no movies, no pedicures, only one hair cut a year for me and I cut my DHs hair myself, no cable, no home phone, cell phones on bare minimum plans) but I will find something. I don't really have any jewelry to sell and what I do have is very sentimental to me, but I am sure there is something we own we can pawn. I'm looking at pushing my orthodontic surgery off until the new year at least. DH is looking at getting a second job to help get us through this. I planned to cxl my trip to see my dad in July because we can use the money elsewhere but my brother offered to pay the way for both myself, my DH and Bear as long as we take our car (better mileage) and he gets to ride shotgun always.
> 
> The kindness everyone has shown me has taken my breath away. I cannot express how much you all mean to me and how much your support and words touch me.
> 
> I want to see what the pros and cons are to each option on the table (I'll start a new thread for that). Can we try a conservative approach and put him on strict bed rest wearing a brace for 3-4 months and see if his body will develop scar tissue and restabilize his knee on his own. If this approach DOES NOT have a chance of harming him further, I think this might be a good idea. If it works, then we've saved a couple thousand and if it doesn't, we're only out a couple hundred more and it might give us time to fundraise/save up for the surgery. We have a CareCredit account, but I don't know if I can pay off $3700 in a year or two (that's
> $308-$155 a month) plus whatever we have to pay for therapy. Swimming rehab is $75 an hour last I recall.
> 
> The only really horrific thing that has happened about all of this is someone asked me if I was going to put Bear down because of this. I was shocked and appalled! I will NOT go bankraupt over this :crossfing (Goodness knows I will bleed every last penny dry until they BEG me to spend them) but that doesn't mean i need to kill my little 61 pound, almost 9 month old puppy.
> 
> If there is a will, there is a way.... and bygone my will is stronger than my limitations. I WILL get this done and Bear WILL get what he needs and recover 100% and we will spend the next 14+ years together without ANY health problems.


I am so sorry for all you and sweet Bear are going through. Trying to understand. Did Bear tear his acl/knee? Does he need TPLO surgery? 
If Bear seems he is in pain, there must be something else to give him.
Our 10 year old girl, Smooch, had TPLO surgery and never needed it on her other knee and it was about the same price.
Praying for Bear and you!

Brave 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brave

My Smooch was 10 years old when she had the TPLO and everything went beautifully and recovery wasn't bad at all. I remember we had to keep her contained, like in a crate or small room, so she couldn't run and jump and keep her off the furniture, bed, stairs for say 6 wks. The Doctor felt at her age and weight the TPLO would be the more secure surgery.

Unless the Doctor said she thinks it could repair itself, I would definitely get it done as soon as possible. As far as TPLO goes, I know only certain vets are certified to perform it. 

Check to see if your vet has CARE CREDIT or some credit, where you can take out the loan for one year or 18 months, with no interest. That's what we had to do with our Smooch.


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## Brave

Karen519 said:


> I am so sorry for all you and sweet Bear are going through. Trying to understand. Did Bear tear his acl/knee? Does he need TPLO surgery?
> If Bear seems he is in pain, there must be something else to give him.
> Our 10 year old girl, Smooch, had TPLO surgery and never needed it on her other knee and it was about the same price.
> Praying for Bear and you!


When the orthopedic vet examined Bear yesterday, she felt instability in his knee (movement when there should be 0 movement) that she hadn't felt before. She is certain it is an ACL tear. She wants to do a TTA surgery on him and it'll cost $3,700 (per knee if he blows the other one.) He would have to stay in the clinic overnight and it will take 4 months of post-op care plus countless months of rehab to get him back to optimal condition. I wish he can just tell me what he feels because I cannot tell he is in pain. His leg is stiff but he is not really limping, no avoidance over touching the leg and knee, no growling or vocal signs of pain. No panting. The only thing that indicates there is a problem is when he has a bad day and cannot get his feet under him and limp. On those days, I will see what we can give him.... I think I have some tramadol left over from his joint taps. The vet wanted to do the surgery tomorrow but I asked her to wait so I had time to research and get a second opinion. 


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## Ksdenton

I truly feel for you. I bought the pet insurance on Bentley because of everything I've been reading here and the fear of one day needing it. I too could not afford such a bill and would be in a panic over this. I'm hoping you're able to find a way to make it work. Keep reading and researching and get that second opinion too. Maybe they will have other options. 


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## Tayla's Mom

Jen,

Maybe one of these places can help you:

Financial Assistance for Veterinary Care | Animal Compassion Network (ACN)
Vet Bills: Organizations Offering Financial Help | Truth4Dogs

I don't know how many places there are out there or if these are current, but when we had all the vet bills with Jesse someone sent me some links. Hope some of these will apply. Keep us posted and know we are thinking about you and Bear and praying for a great result.


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## Karen519

*Brave*

Brave

There's lots of info on internet about the TTA and they're saying the recovery for TTA is less than for TPLO.
Tibial Tuberosity Advancement (TTA) Surgery in Dogs | Community Pet Hospital, Tigard OR
If Doctor is sure that he has a torn knee and this is the operation to fix it, then if he were mine, I would go with this.
Is this the specialist or your vet? 
Did she palpate his knee to determine he needs this?
Take xrays?


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## Brave

My whiny-when-crated-unless-covered puppy spent the whole night in his crate uncovered without whining and I don't think he moved much. He is battling a righteous ear infection as we move through the knee thing, it is a testament to his disposition that he is so loving a joyful. The rules I am trying to establish now that we're back to strict restriction are:

1) always on leash unless crated
2) no jumping 
3) no running
4) help on and off furniture while we keep furniture to a minimum. 
5) less food because no exercise
6) lots of love and attention as we both adjust to this new situation.... And before we know it he'll be healed and running like the wind. 

He was ridiculously confused this morning when I wouldn't let him on the couch. I ended up lifting him up for a little while and got some goofy pictures from Bear as a result. 









When he got down, I said "that's it! No more." So he went back for valuables.


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## OutWest

Oh Bear, Bear, Bear. You are too cute to have this problem. 

Jen: Do NOT cancel the trip to see your dad. I know you said you wouldn't, but you are obviously scrambling for $$ here. 

Sending hugs to you and pats to Bear. Once you've made decisions, and set up fundraising, please PM me with the information. You might want to write to one of the mods about whether you can promote it on here--I suspect not. But people would probably volunteer to help if they know how to reach you.

Keep us posted!!!


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## Brave

OutWest said:


> Oh Bear, Bear, Bear. You are too cute to have this problem.
> 
> Jen: Do NOT cancel the trip to see your dad. I know you said you wouldn't, but you are obviously scrambling for $$ here.
> 
> Sending hugs to you and pats to Bear. Once you've made decisions, and set up fundraising, please PM me with the information. You might want to write to one of the mods about whether you can promote it on here--I suspect not. But people would probably volunteer to help if they know how to reach you.
> 
> Keep us posted!!!


I promise (cross my heart and wish upon a star) NOT to cxl my trip to see Dad. I was going to cxl but my brother went above and beyond the call of duty and offered to pay the way for my entire nuclear family.  

I understand and respect the boards rule about NOT asking for money on the board. I am researching ways to fundraise and one site said to make a FB page for the pup that links to a funding site. I like that idea.  I will share links if we make a FB page so forum members can follow our progress before and after the surgery. You all know I love taking photos. 


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## Claudia M

I think you have done well preparing and I am sure this can be overcome, especially with such wonderful help from the forum members - Please feel free to PM me with your facebook page and we can follow Bear's progress from there as well.


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## Dallas Gold

Do you have a harness to help him up? I think we used a Help Um Up Harness for Barkley. Our vet fashioned a cast support for him, but it didn't work too well. 

I was just wondering if there are any research studies or clinical trials going on for ACL tears and ruptures anywhere that anyone knows about? I used to have a list of current trials and studies but lost the link. Sometimes the study sponsors pay for treatment- it's a long shot though.


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## Davidrob2

I saw a Ruff Wear harness at REI the other day that was specifically designed for lifting dogs over obstacles. It might help with lifting Bear.


Ruffwear Web Master


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## Brave

A long shot is worth everything. What's the worse that can happen? They say no. I am no worse off. 

We use our arms/hands and towels if need be. He is getting up and down decently right now. I think he taught himself how to get up. He gets his front end up, leans forward and uses his front feet as a fulcrum to lift his butt up. When I see him do this I get up to help but 9 times out of 10 by the time I get to him, he is up and trying to play. I wonder how bad he will be post op. will he get aggressive like after his joint tap? They have to keep him overnight so I hope he will be awake by then. 


I think he misses fetch the most... And maybe tug. I am so glad I made those videos of him playing to keep us in high spirits during our no fun time. He is starting I get mouthier so I need to get another marrow bone to distract him. He doesn't want to touch his everlasting treat ball. 


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## Karen519

*Brave*

I am praying very hard for Bear and you!


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## HolDaisy

So sorry to hear about the problems that you've been having with Bear and hope you manage to sort something out, sending him hugs!


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## swishywagga

HolDaisy said:


> So sorry to hear about the problems that you've been having with Bear and hope you manage to sort something out, sending him hugs!


Us too!, sending special hugs over to you.


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## OutWest

_"I think he misses fetch the most... And maybe tug. I am so glad I made those videos of him playing to keep us in high spirits during our no fun time. He is starting I get mouthier so I need to get another marrow bone to distract him. He doesn't want to touch his everlasting treat ball. "_

How about some nose games...? Ones where he walks around looking for the object? He might try to run, but if he's on leash??? Just a thought. People say if you keeps their little brains tired out it's almost as good as tiring out their bodies...


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## Brave

I gave him a pain pill and a frozen marrow bone. It kept him occupied for 2 hours, but now he is pacing and restless. I have him in a down-stay to try to keep him put. I tried crating him, but he just laid in there whining. His left knee is SUPER SWOLLEN and hard. It doesn't seem sensitive to touch. He is still putting weight on both legs. I wish there were more hours in the day so I can finish everything I need to get us ready to fix this.


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## Brave

Bear's Facebook is LIVE!!! 

You should check out the Growing up, album. Lots of D'awwwwwwwwwwwwwww ****too cute*****


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## Dallas Gold

Thinking of you both and hoping that today is a better day for Bear and you. I'm going to go check out his FB page too!


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## Karen519

*Bear*

Posted a msg. to Bear on his Facebook page.
How is he doing today?


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## Brave

Karen519 said:


> Posted a msg. to Bear on his Facebook page.
> How is he doing today?


I saw your message and it made me smile! Thank you so much for caring about us!! 

Bear had a rough night last night (which means I also had a rough night last night). I gave him tramadol with Dinner and idk if the effect reminded him of the joint tap or if the tramadol just makes him anxious because he wouldn't stop pacing. I finally got him settled on the couch, he was plastered next to me and across my lap, completely on his side so no pressure was on his legs and he started crying in his sleep. I waited it out a minute or two and it kept going, so I woke him up. He took about 5 minutes to wake up completely... his eyes were open but unfocused. This morning he was whining to get out of the crate and had alot of energy but he was very subdued. He IS putting weight on the leg still. 

He is VERY restless this morning. Cannot seem to get comfortable. We made a pallet out of pillows and blankets in his crate. I think I'm going to start lifting him up with a towel because he slipped trying to stretch his legs this morning. I need to find an area rug that won't slip across the laminate for the living room and some runners everywhere else to give him as much traction as possible. One more thing to add to the to-do list.


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## Brave

One more thing to cross off my to-do list!! 

We have a second opinion appt Monday at 1 pm!!! 

Yes! 


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## Brave

I have a long list of Q&A between my vet and myself. I will post later tonight. 

In the meantime.... Everyone at the vet office must think I am weird. I am asking them if I can see the ligament post op if they remove it. Why? Cause I am curious. What does it look like? What does it feel like? 


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## Brave

I posted the Q&A on the CCL/ACL thread. 

Last night was ok. Swelling is down some. Bear leaned on me and slipped off his feet last night. We have nothing but laminate flooring so I am looking at finding non-slip mats or rugs to give him more traction and cushion. He is uncomfortable and we have restarted the Rimadyl at the vets recommendation. No vomiting so far. 

He had a lot of poo last night. And some squirts. He didn't want to poo this morning. God help me, trying to balance walking to stimulate his intestines and not walking because of his knee. I tried the towel trick this morning to help him stretch by he wanted NONE of that. He tried to climb into the shower with me this morning. It was really cute. He had one arm in the shower, batting at the water, resting his chest on the side of the tub for support and the rest of his body was on the bath mat. 

I spent most of the night and morning writing to his rescue and other organizations seeking assistance. I told DH last night that if push comes to shove we will finance the whole dang thing and worry about paying it off later. 


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## Brave

The 2nd opinion sent me over a rough estimate right now for a TTA......................


$4500!

/swoon

A member of Bear's rescue got back to me with a referral. I called them and they are going to email me estimates for both a TTA and a TPLO. 


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## Mayve

Jen,

My heart goes out to you all.....I have great respect for what you are doing for Bear. Anyone can see how much you love him and want the best for him when they read your posts. I continue to watch for your posts even if I don't comment a lot, and I keep you all in my thoughts and prayers. Please give Bear a hug for me.....


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## Brave

I feel like every vet I call is feeding me a line. 


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## dogloverforlife

I am sorry to read of Bears diagnosis. Many prayers to you.

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## Karen519

*Brave*

Brave

I know many times when our vet gives us an estimate they have a low end to a high end and it's never been at the high end, but more mid.
If you can I would have the surgery done and then try to get help from organizations later. As long as it's been determined that this is what he needs.


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## Mayve

Brave said:


> I feel like every vet I call is feeding me a line.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I totally understand. Before we started seeing our current vet many years ago...I always felt like I was just another number...a check for them....my current vet actually talks to me...gives me my options, pro's and con's. 
I think perhaps a better analagy would be....when DH was diagnosed with cancer we were told what needed to be done...we were rushed through as if it was an asembly line I know timing can make a difference but we needed to process and discuss options etc....we didn't get that...we had to deal with the whole diagnosis and repercussions emmotionally after the surgery while we were also dealing with the physical repercussions...a double whammy!...it sucked. And the doctors didn't seem at all sympathetic to our plight.


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## Brave

Karen519 said:


> Brave
> 
> I know many times when our vet gives us an estimate they have a low end to a high end and it's never been at the high end, but more mid.
> If you can I would have the surgery done and then try to get help from organizations later. As long as it's been determined that this is what he needs.


I have seen estimates like that but at our current vet they don't add the extra stuff so there isn't a range. Like the first time we went for X-rays, it was a temporary sedation and they wanted to put a catheter in him and administer fluids but said it was pointless because he would only be sedated for 30 minutes. So I said don't put it on the estimate. I think they understand money is tight and respect that so they give estimates for what he needs -- not extras like joint supplements, etc. maybe also because they know I do a lot of stuff at home..... Supplements, Physical therapy, massage, home-made treatments, etc. They seem very open to home remedies. Like when Bear had that allergic reaction to ear cleaner --- we use warm salt water now. A lot cheaper. 


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## goldensrbest

We did a TPLO, on kooper,when he was about 5 years old, he is 10 now, we had to borrow the money, bear is so young, it must be very hard on him,and you.


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## Brave

Whoops. Hit send too fast. I told DH that if the second opinion comes back as "yes this is an acl tear. Yes he needs surgery." We will finance all of it and get the surgery done hopefully on Thursday the 16th. We will try to fundraise with donations and fundraise with selling stuff after the fact. Most of the organizations require you apply prior to treatment. So that is my plan this weekend. I have a million things to do this weekend that are just normal things, and my brother is taking me to CostCo to pick up some affordable pet beds. We've been using pillows and blankets to cushion the floor and we don't have enough to go around so we're buying beds. From what I understand we will be able to get them at Costco for a fraction of the price at a pet store. 

I am going to see if rehab places offer discounts to those in need. 


I really hate saying "in need" it brings me back to a bad place in my life. I remember in 4th grade, after my parents divorced, we lost the house and thanks to a shady landlord lost our rental without notice. We were homeless. So my mom asked friends to take in our golden, Sunny. He developed cancer in his leg shortly after that. We had to rely on the generosity of others to take care of him. We lost him anyways but I never did get to say goodbye. We as a family bounced around from shelter to shelter to motel to shelter. We spent almost a decade at motels. We finally got settled into an apartment when I was 17. 

I am determined to have a better life than before. And we're not going to lose the house over this. We will find a way to pay it off. I have seen families do astounding things in times of need.


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## OutWest

Brave said:


> I really hate saying "in need" it brings me back to a bad place in my life. I remember in 4th grade, after my parents divorced, we lost the house and thanks to a shady landlord lost our rental without notice. We were homeless. So my mom asked friends to take in our golden, Sunny. He developed cancer in his leg shortly after that. We had to rely on the generosity of others to take care of him. We lost him anyways but I never did get to say goodbye. We as a family bounced around from shelter to shelter to motel to shelter. We spent almost a decade at motels. We finally got settled into an apartment when I was 17.
> 
> I am determined to have a better life than before. And we're not going to lose the house over this. We will find a way to pay it off. I have seen families do astounding things in times of need.
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 I totally get where you're coming from. I believe the two of you will work it out, and I think Bear def has the right parents!


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## Brave

Tonight he is doing good. I think he forgets he is on leash. He almost took my shoulder off when he went from 0 to 80 in half a second. We had some company today and crated him as a precaution. He was so sad. Oh well. He is happily sleeping at my feet now. I am so in love with him. 


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## Karen519

*Brave*

Brave

You will find a way to pay it off. When I lost my job three years ago, we went from having two incomes and a mortgage, etc., to one. It's amazing how much you can cut back when you have to.

As far as keeping Bear confined after surgery when you go back to work, here is an idea, that might work for you:


When Smooch had the TPLO done, we had to keep her confined, too.
I wanted for her to be able to see Snobear, and for Snobear to see her.
We have a small powder room on our first level, so Ken took off the door, made a half door or a third of a door from plywood, so that Smooch couldn't get out, but she and Snobear could see one another during the day. It worked like a charm. The powder room was small enough that she could lay down in it, but not big enough where she could run.

Do you have a room like this? 

P.S. WE never took Smooch from any formal rehab. We just did the exercise the vet gave us moving her leg, and did short walks when it was permitted and blocked the stairs, bed, furniture. I slept downstairs on the couch and she slept right next to the couch.


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## Brave

Thanks! I am thinking of putting things in front of the couch so he cannot get up and just sleeping on the couch for a few weeks at night and blocking us into the living room. 


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## Brave

He is being such a good boy. I think he understands now what I am doing and why. He has spent the last day and a half just laying on a long body pillow and absolutely destroying his antler. We have bone crumbs scattered all over the living room. I am so proud of him. 


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## Brave

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## OutWest

Kisses to Bear. {{{smooch}}}


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## Brave

Thanks, Outwest. 

My brother took us to Costco this morning, since he is a member. We got a really nice orthopedic bed for $30!!!! That is so super cheap. Way cheaper than any other place I could find. I think Bear likes it. Especially when it's right under the couch so he can be close to me. 
















I am super weird and tested the bed out first. I couldn't even tell I was on the ground! Amazing!!!


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## Tayla's Mom

Such a sweetheart.


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## Karen519

*Brave*

Brave

That sure is a wonderful bed for Bear and you can tell he LOVES IT!
Let us know how his appt. goes today.


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## Ksdenton

Aren't they so sweet when the are sleeping? 


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## Brave

The second opinion confirmed it. The dr. even laid Bear down and showed me the instability he feels. Our next conflict is when to do the surgery. Dr. Hampel wants it done ASAP and Dr Tarvin feels it is in Bear's best interest to wait a month or so for his growing to slow down before doing the surgery. 


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## autumn's mom

Thanks for the update Jen. I am sorry Bear is going through all of this. I am also sorry you have a choice to make because in your shoes I don't know which I would do. Part of me says to wait the month, but the other part of my thinks to do it now so he would not be in so much pain.

Which way are you leaning?


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## Davidrob2

I'm so sorry. I was hoping beyond hope that the second vet would say Bear didn't need the surgery.


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## Buddy's mom forever

Sending hugs and prayers for you and Bear, a tough decision to make.


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## Karen519

*Bear*

Bear

Which of those doctors will be doing the surgery. Is Doctor Hampel an orthopedic surgeon?
I would be inclined to have it right away, to keep the pain away and start healing process.


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## Tayla's Mom

One of my FB friends has been a vet tech for 30 years and she wanted to know also if the Dr. Doing surgery was an orthopedic surgeon also. You need to balance the pain and further damage with growth plate issues.


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## Brave

Tayla's Mom said:


> One of my FB friends has been a vet tech for 30 years and she wanted to know also if the Dr. Doing surgery was an orthopedic surgeon also. You need to balance the pain and further damage with growth plate issues.


Dr. Hampel is a board certified orthopedic surgeon. She will be doing the surgery. 


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## goldensrbest

Sorry to read this, I feel so bad for bear,he is so young, but so glad he has you, cause he is loved a lot.


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## Tayla's Mom

Brave said:


> Dr. Hampel is a board certified orthopedic surgeon. She will be doing the surgery.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Since she is doing the surgery I'd probably go with her recommendation. I didn't get much feed back on the surgery for dogs Bears age.


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## Claudia M

Brave said:


> Bear's Facebook is LIVE!!!
> 
> You should check out the Growing up, album. Lots of D'awwwwwwwwwwwwwww ****too cute*****


Wonderful job with the fb page!


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## Karen519

*Dr. Hampel*

I would tell Dr. Hampel what other vet said about waiting a month and ask her opinion, and then go with what she says.
I know that we had to have an orthopedic surgeon CERTIFIED to do a TPLO.
I know you're having the TTA, but if might need similar certification.


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## Brave

Karen519 said:


> I would tell Dr. Hampel what other vet said about waiting a month and ask her opinion, and then go with what she says.
> I know that we had to have an orthopedic surgeon CERTIFIED to do a TPLO.
> I know you're having the TTA, but if might need similar certification.


I am corresponding with her via email, because it is so hard to get ahold of her over the phone. We go to Oregon in a little over two months. If she thinks we need to wait, I will prefer we wait until we get back because taking a puppy camping four weeks post-op seems stupid and I have no one who can take him in who doesn't have other animals. If Dr. Hampel wants to do it now, instead of waiting I will try to get him scheduled for Thursday. He will be 2 months post-op by the time we go camping so most of his bone healing should be well underway. And I can have him on leash with me versus crated at all times. 

I have been researching Dr. Hampel more and more. She is on the board for a rescue or two, she consults and operates for two zoos down here (San Diego Zoo's Wild Animal Park and the Santee Zoo). She has done approximately 600 TTA surgeries since 2004. She has been board certified since 1991. And she graduated vet school in 1980. 

Her bio is here: http://veterinaryhospitalsandiego.com/our-doctors

Turns our she co-owns the hospital with her husband. Who knew! And she does come with a good reputation with the veterinary community down here. 

I really like her. She cares so much for Bear. 


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## Karen519

*Dr. Hampel*

Dr. Hampel sounds like she has very impressive credentials!
Ask her how she thinks he'll be doing 2 months post op, but I think he should be fine.


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## Brave

Dr. Hampel's office just emailed me back. She supports us waiting for his growth plates to mature a bit more. I'm double checking that she is ok with us waiting until we get back from vacation near the end of July or if that is too long. We're keeping him lean and quiet as can be.


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## OutWest

Poor little man... "lean and quiet" are not adjectives that he approves of I'm sure! 

Glad you like you doctor. That's really good for you and DH. I like your FB page. It looks great.


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## Brave

OutWest said:


> Poor little man... "lean and quiet" are not adjectives that he approves of I'm sure!
> 
> Glad you like you doctor. That's really good for you and DH. I like your FB page. It looks great.


Bear says "Go take your Lean and Quiet and SHOVE IT in a pipe a SMOKE IT! Ma! I was born to RUN! RUN LIKE THE WIND!!!!!!!


Thanks for the compliments, both Outwest and Claudia M.  I try to update facebook as much as I can, but I find I check FB more often than I post. Ha!!! I plan on writing letters to his littermates tonight to let them know what's going on. With both vets thinking his early ACL tears being caused by conformation/genetics - I think it's important they know what we're going through. Heaven forbid, any of them have to deal with it - maybe that can glean something from my tirals and tribulations.


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## OutWest

Brave said:


> Bear says "Go take your Lean and Quiet and SHOVE IT in a pipe a SMOKE IT! Ma! I was born to RUN! RUN LIKE THE WIND!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Thanks for the compliments, both Outwest and Claudia M.  I try to update facebook as much as I can, but I find I check FB more often than I post. Ha!!! I plan on writing letters to his littermates tonight to let them know what's going on. With both vets thinking his early ACL tears being caused by conformation/genetics - I think it's important they know what we're going through. Heaven forbid, any of them have to deal with it - maybe that can glean something from my tirals and tribulations.


Tell them if they've considered getting insurance, now would be a good time to do it.


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## xoerika620xo

Jen i am just now catching up with bear. first and foremost i am so sorry about everything you guys are going through. I will keep checking up on you guys, and i'm glad at least you were able to get some answers. Stay strong Jen, and tell bear hang in there he'll be good in no time!


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## OutWest

xoerika620xo said:


> Jen i am just now catching up with bear. first and foremost i am so sorry about everything you guys are going through. I will keep checking up on you guys, and i'm glad at least you were able to get some answers. Stay strong Jen, and tell bear hang in there he'll be good in no time!


See Jens Facebook page for Bear.


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## Pixie

I posted something the other day but apparebtly it never came through :s

I am glad you found out what was bothering your little boy and managed to find good doctors to take care of him! You will see that in no time Bear will be up and running 

I am checking the facebook page for the fund raising :crossfing


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## Brave

I just spoke with a member of Bear's rescue's board of directors. He referred me to another clinic who handles most of the rescues surgeries and said they might be able to give me a discount as a service to Bear since he came from this rescue. Wish us luck!!!!!!!


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## inge

That would be great!


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## Brave

Omg you guys. Omg!!! I am going to cry! Like break down and bawl my eyes out. 

The quote we got from Dr. Serdy at PECS is for $4704.00 but he is extending the discount for Bear's rescue to us as a courtesy which brings the price down to $2352!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That includes everything except the 6 week check-up which we will get at a discounted price of $150 which includes xrays!!! We're looking at ~$2500. That is $1200 less than the cheapest option we found. Omg omg omg omg omg omg g omg omg omg omg omg. 

Dr. Serdy does TPLO but says if we decide to go the TTA route, he would be happy to do a TTA for us. 

/faint 


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## Bentleysmom

FANTASTIC NEWS!!!!!!! There are still wonderful people walking among us!!!


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## Ksdenton

Awesome news!! So happy for you 


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## LilBitBit

That is AMAZING news! I'm so excited for you. Can Bear have visitors?


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## Mirinde

Yaaaaayyyyy! You caught a break after all! That is great news!


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## Brave

LilBitBit said:


> That is AMAZING news! I'm so excited for you. Can Bear have visitors?


You are so sweet. Bear can have visitors. I crate him for about 10 minutes when ppl come over so he can calm down and not be as exuberant when we let him out. He still tries to jump when given half a chance, so we try to be really careful to catch him before he gets it in his head. 


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## Brave

We really are super blessed. This goes to show that networking is essential. 


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## Karen519

*Dr. Sardy*

That is so wonderful about Dr. Sardy-how did you find out about him?
So happy for you and Bear.
When is the surgery.


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## Brave

A member of the board of directors for Bear's rescue referred us. No date on the surgery yet. I am double checking to see if Dr. Hampel will price match us. If not, we're going in for a consult with the new doc. At this point, we're leaning on waiting until the end of July to mitigate any dangers to his growth plates. 


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## Tayla's Mom

Jen that is incredible news. I'm so happy for you all.


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## SandyK

Catching up...great news that you are able to get such a discount!!


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## Karen519

*Bear*

Please keep us all posted and praying for Bear!


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## dogloverforlife

That is awesome of the rescue vet. Is Dr. SARDY a certified ortho vet?

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## Brave

dogloverforlife said:


> That is awesome of the rescue vet. Is Dr. SARDY a certified ortho vet?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yes he is. 



> Mike Serdy, BVSc, DACVS
> BOARD CERTIFIED SURGICAL SPECIALIST
> 
> Dr. Serdy is a native Australian and received his veterinary degree with first class honours from the University of Sydney in 1992. He worked for two years as a general practitioner in Australia before relocating to the United States where he completed a one year internship program before being selected for a surgical residency at U.C. Davis. Mike completed his three year residency program and joined the Pet Emergency & Specialty Center in 1998. His years of advanced surgical training, international education, and numerous research projects in the surgical field have prepared him to perform the most state-of-the-art surgical procedures. Mike will work with you and your veterinarian to offer the highest level of surgical care for your pet.



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## dogloverforlife

That's great!!

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## Karen519

*Jen*



dogloverforlife said:


> That is awesome of the rescue vet. Is Dr. SARDY a certified ortho vet?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Jen: Sounds wonderful-is Dr. Sardy certified to do the TTA or TPLO?


----------



## Brave

Karen519 said:


> Jen: Sounds wonderful-is Dr. Sardy certified to do the TTA or TPLO?


As far as I know - yes. I do plan I grilling him at the consult. *grabs a stick of butter and a skillet*

Are there any questions (other than the ones used for Dr. Hampel) that I might have forgotten?


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## Claudia M

Great start.


----------



## Buddy's mom forever

How is sweet Bear doing these days?


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## dborgers

I'm glad I saw the info about your Facebook page 


I wish you guys all the best. Bear will be fine when it's all said and done.


----------



## Brave

Bear is driving his mom crazy. We're back to the point where he is going stir crazy from lack of exercise and is just being a puppy dudebag. I am battered, bruised and scratched from him acting out. 

Dr. Hampel was able to price match but not 100%, so we scheduled the consult with Dr. Serdy for Wednesday at 7 am. 

Everyone whose helped, has taken my breath away. We are so blessed. Thank you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. 


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## OutWest

Hey Bear, dis is Tucker and Bella. Shape up, guy. I know yer antsy, wanna get up and boogie but yer Mom's tryin to get you all better so you can play a lot more so don't go scratchin her and givin her a bad time or we'll have to drive south and grab you by the scruff. Got it?


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## Karen519

*Brave*

Brave

Just checking in on Bear. Praying for you both!


----------



## Karen519

*Bear*

Let us know how the consult goes!
So happy for Bear and you.


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## Brave

OutWest said:


> Hey Bear, dis is Tucker and Bella. Shape up, guy. I know yer antsy, wanna get up and boogie but yer Mom's tryin to get you all better so you can play a lot more so don't go scratchin her and givin her a bad time or we'll have to drive south and grab you by the scruff. Got it?


I read that to Bear this morning and took a picture of his face. I will have to upload it tonight. It was priceless!!! 

We're coping. Melatonin or Benedryl to keep him calmer. Lots and lots of marrow bones to occupy him. I find after chewing on bone for ~2 hours he will sleep for about 4 hours. 

I have been getting headaches/migraines this past week. It started on Wednesday, got so bad that I took half of Thursday and all of Friday off so I could stay away from anything brighter than the moon when the earth blocks out the sun. They got less and less but the minute I got to work and sat down the headache started up again. I wonder if its from my computer screen. But I can use the computer at home without a problem. If they keep up, I will go to the doctor, cause this ish is not normal. 


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## autumn's mom

I am sorry you are getting headaches Jen - they could also be from stress. Sorry Bear is stir crazy, poor pup.


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## Bentleysmom

Jen don't mess with headaches PLEASE......we don't want your head exploding!!! Trust me, it's not fun.


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## Brave

Bentleysmom said:


> Jen don't mess with headaches PLEASE......we don't want your head exploding!!! Trust me, it's not fun.


I had one on Wednesday, that was moderate and didn't require pain killers. It went away before end of day Wednesday. I got another one mid-morning Thursday that lasted until Friday afternoon (~26ish hours). I was fine all weekend, until Monday, I got one on my way into work (8 am ish) and its been getting progressively worse for the past 6 hours. I just took some Advil to see if that will work. No light sensitivity like Thursdays migraine.

I read if migraines persist for 3-4 days to seek immediate medical attention as it indicates an elevated risk of stroking. 

I am too young for this poo. 

Idk if the 3-4 days counts if they go away and come back of if our need to have one migraine for 3-4 days. 

Did your migraines respond to pain killers? 


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----------



## Bentleysmom

Brave said:


> I had one on Wednesday, that was moderate and didn't require pain killers. It went away before end of day Wednesday. I got another one mid-morning Thursday that lasted until Friday afternoon (~26ish hours). I was fine all weekend, until Monday, I got one on my way into work (8 am ish) and its been getting progressively worse for the past 6 hours. I just took some Advil to see if that will work. No light sensitivity like Thursdays migraine.
> 
> I read if migraines persist for 3-4 days to seek immediate medical attention as it indicates an elevated risk of stroking.
> 
> I am too young for this poo.
> 
> Idk if the 3-4 days counts if they go away and come back of if our need to have one migraine for 3-4 days.
> 
> Did your migraines respond to pain killers?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


No, mine didn't respond to anything until they knocked me out.


----------



## Brave

Bentleysmom said:


> No, mine didn't respond to anything until they knocked me out.


Thank god for WebMD. House would be so proud. It says if I have headaches/migraines more than3 times a week to call the doctor but it isn't urgent. 

I think it's just my body being out of whack. I tweaked my back, so my left knee and ankle were aching four days ago; then it moved over to my right knee and ankle last night. I think I'll call the chiropractor and see if I can get an adjustment. If my back is pulling on my neck that could very well be causing these headaches.  


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## Mirinde

Naproxen + acetaminophen + benedryl + caffeine works better than you'd imagine. When you go to the ER for a migraine, one of the main things they will try first is an IV of a couple antihistamines... something about it works. If you have the time to be down and no drug sensitivities, try this cocktail :
3 Aleeve/Naproxen (do not take more than 3 in a 24 hour period)
500mg acetaminophen 
50mg benedryl
A big iced coffee 
Someone rubbing the cervical vertebrae on your neck
Ice

When I tried to switch hormonal contraceptives last year, it triggered my migraines like crazy and gave me auras for the first time in my life (even though I've been getting migraines since I was 3). This combination was usually the only thing that worked, even when a trip to the ER didn't. 

Take care of yourself!

Edited to add, if you start having an aura and migraines with aura are not common for you, get to the ER asap. Not stuff to screw around with.


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## Brave

What the heck is an aura? Like will I start seeing colorful fields of magnetic energy surrounding objects?? 

I took 800 mg Advil (ibrephrofen) and its not really denting it. I told my boss no OT today I am going home to knock my self out. I am drinking some caffeine. But I can't tell any difference. It helps when my hubby rubs my neck. Do you think I can cart him to work with me?? Oh that's the life!


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----------



## Mirinde

NSAIDS alone don't usually work for me either. Don't take Aleeve/Naproxen if you've already taken advil, but you can still take the acetaminophen and benedryl.. I just find Naproxen works better than ibuprofen. 

Auras can be a variety of things. Weird spots in your vision are common. It doesn't even need to be like an obvious colorful change in vision. My first aura started as weird zigzag shaped shadows moving in from the outward corner of my eye and into my full field of vision, so they can just be shadows or shapes or waveyness. Sudden changes in anxiety levels are also a symptom. The one that got me the most was numbness... this can range from "something feels kind of weird but hard to tell" to "I legitimately can't feel half my face". It can happen in your hands, face, ears, lips, etc. It can be super localized (as in one little spot of numbness) or a whole body part. Slurring of speech and forgetting words or names is another common symptom. Auras are weird stuff.


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## murphy1

Excedrine,,,,,,its the best!


----------



## Brave

I've got my co-workers keeping an eye on me and I called the doctor to see if they want me to come in or wait it out. I hear light sensitivity is an aura. I don't have that one today, just intense pressure along my neck, base of my skull and over my right eye (behind??) 


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----------



## OutWest

Brave said:


> I read that to Bear this morning and took a picture of his face. I will have to upload it tonight. It was priceless!!!
> 
> We're coping. Melatonin or Benedryl to keep him calmer. Lots and lots of marrow bones to occupy him. I find after chewing on bone for ~2 hours he will sleep for about 4 hours.
> 
> I have been getting headaches/migraines this past week. It started on Wednesday, got so bad that I took half of Thursday and all of Friday off so I could stay away from anything brighter than the moon when the earth blocks out the sun. They got less and less but the minute I got to work and sat down the headache started up again. I wonder if its from my computer screen. But I can use the computer at home without a problem. If they keep up, I will go to the doctor, cause this ish is not normal.
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Has the barometric pressure been changing where you are? We often don't pay a lot of attention to that part of the weather, but I think it causes a lot of ills such as headache, etc. I know in dogs with a certain cranial malformation, pressure changes cause agony.


----------



## OutWest

Brave said:


> I've got my co-workers keeping an eye on me and I called the doctor to see if they want me to come in or wait it out. I hear light sensitivity is an aura. I don't have that one today, just intense pressure along my neck, base of my skull and over my right eye (behind??)
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


the pain in the base of the neck is also a symptom of meningitis. With your other symptoms, I suspect that's not likely... but it wouldn't hurt to get checked out. Since the area in pain is so important to your overall well being, perhaps see the MD before the chiro? I don't want to start the MD vs. DC debate--I like and use both. But I'd want to rule out certain things before getting an adjustment... but that's me.


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## dborgers

I hope you get feeling better, Jen.

My, you have so much on your plate dealing with your own migraines, but to have to deal with watching Bear, knowing he needs surgery, and the pressure upon you just now must be such a heavy load.

My wife and I wish you and Bear quick healing. God will take care of your needs.


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## Brave

OutWest said:


> Hey Bear, dis is Tucker and Bella. Shape up, guy. I know yer antsy, wanna get up and boogie but yer Mom's tryin to get you all better so you can play a lot more so don't go scratchin her and givin her a bad time or we'll have to drive south and grab you by the scruff. Got it?


 
As promised... Bear's response is UP!

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...y-up-1-year/178170-reading-bear-riot-act.html


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## Brave

Thank you everyone for listening to my whiny-self this morning. My migraine is still sitting there, lurking, like a stalkerish boogyman. My husband's ride called out so I get to take DH to work at 3 tomorrow morning. /sigh

At least I can come home and sleep until 7 am. Last time we did the "drive me the work?" I had to be up again at 5:30 to leave the house by 6:30 to make it to work on time. I cannot wait until Friday! Memorial Day weekend = me + the couch + some cocktails - stress - worry - responsibilty (Ahhhhhhhh I can feel a tropical breeze calling me!) I still have two movie passes burning holes in my pocket that I've been saving since January 2012... maybe I'll go see Iron Man 3. 

As with everything in life, you find ways to make it through. Right? You suck it up and shuffle forward. I feel so blessed to have Bear and DH and ALL OF YOU in my life. Bear just lifts me up to such a high. He is the epitome of what I want and love in my life.... happiness, pure and simple joy, embracing a good morning stretch, stopped to blow dandeloin heads, hiding behind a tree, letting the breeze whip through your hair, anticipating our NEXT BIG ADVENTURE in the car.... so many things he brings to my life. Well worth every penny I spend on him.


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## Karen519

*Jen*

Jen

You and Bear are going through so much.
I am praying for you.
God will care for you!


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## Tayla's Mom

Jen, I used to get muscle tension headaches so bad I would almost get sick. Pain in my neck going around my had and shooting out my eye. Excedrin Muscle Tension worked the best but they have taken it off the market and not put it back on so now I use Excedrin Migraine. It helps, but I always keep a sealed bag of water in the fridge and use that on the back of my neck. Very cold, but not frozen as that is too hard, helps after about 30 minutes. Hope with all the stress of Bear it's just bad muscle tension headaches.


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## Brave

I love the new sig pic of Tayla. GORGEOUS!


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## MercyMom

Brave said:


> You make me giggle. We're down to two possibilities.... He tore the ligaments in both his knees or he has IMPA (an autoimmune disease). We have to wait 3 more weeks then re-evaluate. Hopefully by then this is nailed down and we can start treatment. I just want to curl up in bed and sleep for the next 3 weeks.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I am so sorry for not reading this thread through before. I have read through to April 9th or the 28th page so far. I am still catching up. Hang in there dear! I know it must be such a scary ordeal. I know how much your Bear baby means to you. I am here for you.


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## MercyMom

Brave said:


> Verdict is in. He has a full tear of his cruciate ligament in one knee (left I think she said) with some slight instability in his other knee which may rupture at a later date. They want to do a TTA on Thursday. I asked for time to get a second opinion and to research the procedure. It'll cost us $3,200+ per knee.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I'm so sorry dear!:--sad:


----------



## MercyMom

Brave said:


> Whoops. Hit send too fast. I told DH that if the second opinion comes back as "yes this is an acl tear. Yes he needs surgery." We will finance all of it and get the surgery done hopefully on Thursday the 16th. We will try to fundraise with donations and fundraise with selling stuff after the fact. Most of the organizations require you apply prior to treatment. So that is my plan this weekend. I have a million things to do this weekend that are just normal things, and my brother is taking me to CostCo to pick up some affordable pet beds. We've been using pillows and blankets to cushion the floor and we don't have enough to go around so we're buying beds. From what I understand we will be able to get them at Costco for a fraction of the price at a pet store.
> 
> I am going to see if rehab places offer discounts to those in need.
> 
> 
> I really hate saying "in need" it brings me back to a bad place in my life. I remember in 4th grade, after my parents divorced, we lost the house and thanks to a shady landlord lost our rental without notice. We were homeless. So my mom asked friends to take in our golden, Sunny. He developed cancer in his leg shortly after that. We had to rely on the generosity of others to take care of him. We lost him anyways but I never did get to say goodbye. We as a family bounced around from shelter to shelter to motel to shelter. We spent almost a decade at motels. We finally got settled into an apartment when I was 17.
> 
> I am determined to have a better life than before. And we're not going to lose the house over this. We will find a way to pay it off. I have seen families do astounding things in times of need.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


You go girl! What a rough time you had growing up! My heart goes out to you dear!


----------



## MercyMom

Brave said:


> Thank you everyone for listening to my whiny-self this morning. My migraine is still sitting there, lurking, like a stalkerish boogyman. My husband's ride called out so I get to take DH to work at 3 tomorrow morning. /sigh
> 
> At least I can come home and sleep until 7 am. Last time we did the "drive me the work?" I had to be up again at 5:30 to leave the house by 6:30 to make it to work on time. I cannot wait until Friday! Memorial Day weekend = me + the couch + some cocktails - stress - worry - responsibilty (Ahhhhhhhh I can feel a tropical breeze calling me!) I still have two movie passes burning holes in my pocket that I've been saving since January 2012... maybe I'll go see Iron Man 3.
> 
> As with everything in life, you find ways to make it through. Right? You suck it up and shuffle forward. I feel so blessed to have Bear and DH and ALL OF YOU in my life. Bear just lifts me up to such a high. He is the epitome of what I want and love in my life.... happiness, pure and simple joy, embracing a good morning stretch, stopped to blow dandeloin heads, hiding behind a tree, letting the breeze whip through your hair, anticipating our NEXT BIG ADVENTURE in the car.... so many things he brings to my life. Well worth every penny I spend on him.


Jen, I hope you feel better soon. The last thing you need is your own pain to deal with on top of your worries for Bear. I can't wait until Memorial Day weekend either!


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## MercyMom

I am finally caught up. Whew, what a rollercoaster story! I am so glad that you were able to contact the rescue vet and get a discount. I'll be reading your FaceBook page as well.


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## Brave

Omg you guys!!!!! Brian and Roo from The Dog in the Clouds (a Rescue in Progress) just shared us on his page!!!!! My email is blasted with notices from our fundraising site confirming donations!! I am crying. Flat out bawling from happiness and hope. We've been so generously given $720 and counting to help pay for his surgery!! Omg omg omg omg omg that's 1/3 of his $2500 bill!!! 


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## Brave

MercyMom said:


> I am finally caught up. Whew, what a rollercoaster story! I am so glad that you were able to contact the rescue vet and get a discount. I'll be reading your FaceBook page as well.


You are an incredibly fast reader! Thank you for taking the time to read through our novel.  it's definitely been a crazy two months. And it'll be an even crazier four months post -op. I don't know what I would do without my GRF Family. 


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## MercyMom

Brave said:


> Omg you guys!!!!! Brian and Roo from The Dog in the Clouds (a Rescue in Progress) just shared us on his page!!!!! My email is blasted with notices from our fundraising site confirming donations!! I am crying. Flat out bawling from happiness and hope. We've been so generously given $720 and counting to help pay for his surgery!! Omg omg omg omg omg that's 1/3 of his $2500 bill!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Praise God!


----------



## Claudia M

Brave said:


> Omg you guys!!!!! Brian and Roo from The Dog in the Clouds (a Rescue in Progress) just shared us on his page!!!!! My email is blasted with notices from our fundraising site confirming donations!! I am crying. Flat out bawling from happiness and hope. We've been so generously given $720 and counting to help pay for his surgery!! Omg omg omg omg omg that's 1/3 of his $2500 bill!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Hooray - so many good and caring people!!!!!!!!!


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## Dallas Gold

Please keep us posted on Bear's surgery!


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## Brave

Dallas Gold said:


> Please keep us posted on Bear's surgery!


I will. 

I am shocked. I honestly am. When we got the official diagnosis on the 7th (just two weeks ago), I was convinced that we were doomed. I had no idea how we were going to pay for this, let alone rehab Bear and keep him quiet for so long. I had a couple people tell me to just put him down. I had even more people tell me that it was foolish to fundraise and that I should just take my lumps because that is what it means to be a dog owner. Most of these people told me ... to only ask for a little, but I knew in my heart that I should just be transparent. Let it all out, and we find a way to pay. We're a bit aways away from the end goal but holy smokes...!!!

I am not washing my hands of the situation. Ya know? I understand he is my financial responsibility and we are working on scraping funds together on our end. And this was totally not directed at you, DG, I just needed to clear the air that even though I am asking for hand-outs, it's really hands-up and we're not just these irresponsible youngsters who don't want to pay for there dog. We really are responsible. I swear. I told DH, if I knew we needed this surgery, I wouldn't have bought our house when we did so we would have had all that money we paid for the down payment...... But that's like time travel, if we never bought the house, we never would have gotten Bear, cause the apartment never would have allowed it. 

And Bear is totally better off with me.  he is spoiled rotten. After all this is said and done, DH and I plan on building an Emergency Pet Fund. We already had a vet care fund but we blew threw that like it was freaking water. 

Anyways.... The long and short of it is - hip hip huzzah! Blessings to everyone! Thank the Powers that Be. 


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## Tayla's Mom

Jen, when Jesse was sick and we were spending so much money on her, money we had to put on several charge cards, several people here offered us assistance. I was shocked, humbled and grateful for their offers. I promised to pay forward to someone else their assistance to us and that is what I did with Bear. I have a feeling you will do the same when you are in that position to do so again. I have found some wonderful people here and enjoy getting to know them and their dogs. I hope you and Bear will be on here a long time and we can look back on this years from now and see pictures of him running a playing. You took a heartfelt and honest move and people responded to your plight. Nothing wrong with that. You are providing for a great life for him. When we found out Tayla had HD several people said to put her down also. Really? There will always be those people out there. Keep us posted as you have been. I enjoy reading about your lives together.


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## Claudia M

In life we all come at an impasse where no matter how far you look back it will not help. You have to deal with what is in front of you and to the best of your abilities. I have been there and many others have too. 
You are doing great and yes Bear is lucky to have you and your husband.


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## Dallas Gold

Everyone needs a helping hand from time to time. There is another forum member here with a heart of gold who posted the links on his FB page...


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## Brave

Dallas Gold said:


> Everyone needs a helping hand from time to time. There is another forum member here with a heart of gold who posted the links on his FB page...


I know. And I think it's the same member who talked to Brian and Roo. He honestly gives so much. I am humbled to have such amazing friends in our corner. 


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## dborgers

I have a feeling this is all going to work out just fine 

The thing about GRF that blows my mind is how it is so indicative of the goodness in people. I always log off feeling better than when I logged in .. even if I'm already having a great day.

Throughout Andy's journey we had the support of so many wonderful people. 

GRF is simply amazing!!


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## Dallas Gold

I'm wondering because...it's still not on there unless they made me anonymous instead?


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## Brave

Dallas Gold said:


> I'm wondering because... it's still not on there unless they made me anonymous instead?


You can PM me you name and I can check it against the emails I get.  Actually. I am going to Pm you right now. I have a question. Lol!!!! 




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## Dallas Gold

Brave said:


> You can PM me you name and I can check it against the emails I get.  Actually. I am going to Pm you right now. I have a question. Lol!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Let me know if you don't get my PM response. My internet is doing crazy things after our storms and I'm not sure it sent?


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## Brave

I got it.  

Thanks for pointing that out, I will need to make a list to make sure everything is accounted for. 



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## dborgers

Yeah!! Go Bear!!! 

There are so many incredible people here on GRF!


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## Brave

So the stats.... 


AHHHHHHHH!!! I am completely 100% blown AWAY! 



So.... I have an ettiquete question. :doh:

I was trying to hunt everyone down and collect addresses to send handmade (really, it'll look like a 5 year old made it.... but it's totally the thought that counts) Thank You cards; but maybe I can send our newsletters. 

Like updates to everyone's email (Like right after the surgery, a month after the surgery, six months after the surger and a year after the surgery) as well as post it on the FB page and here. For some, it might be too much... like "UGH I see Bear EVERYWHERE" but this whole thing is made possible because of these generous generous people... I want to include them. I want them to know how OMG much they mean to us and what a difference it makes for us. Like, words escape me! I have no way to articulate the amount of emotion I am feeling right now.


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## Buddy's mom forever

Jen, just take care of yourself and Bear, that's the most important now.


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## dborgers

I hope your migraines are fading. Man, you're going through so much right now. Isn't it nice to find out how much kindness there is in the world, when what we mostly hear about on the news is bad stuff? 

So glad to hear getting Bear his surgery is moving towards being possible! We'll look forward to your update about the meeting with Dr. Serdy. Hopefully you'll find Bear's surgery is within reach very soon.


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## Bentleysmom

I agree. We will all follow Bear's progress so don't make more work for yourself now. Concentrate on getting Bear through this and taking care of you! I hope the entire goal is reached! !


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## Brave

I had a bit of a headache for 90ish minutes this morning but it went away before work. Yay! I am doing my best to take care of myself. I find I put myself last. I am half-joking with this, but I can relax when I'm dead. Ok that is a complete joke. I just have so many things to take care of. Bear is my #1 concern, followed by my DH and the cats, followed by the house/home. Tell me I am not the only one. Is this a woman thing? Idk I've always taken care of something or someone for as long as I can remember. 

I am off to bed. I've been up since 3 am and we have a big day in a few hours. 

Thank you guys. For everything!!!!


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## Claudia M

such a great going - So so close!


----------



## dborgers

Looks like good progress is being made 

If we all spread the word on our Facebook pages and ask others to pass it on, that'll help too.

GRF is amazing because of the amazing people here


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## Karen519

*Jen*

Jen

I know how hard it is to struggle with vet bills and my heart goes out to you.


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## CAROLINA MOM

Just a reminder to all-


*14. GoldenRetrieverForum.com Members are prohibited in posting threads seeking donations for individuals. A poll by this board membership has decided that there will be no more threads/posts allowed for members to ask for personal donations for themselves, or for other members’ behalf. If members wish to take on such endeavors this must be done in PM’s or on another site. Links to such other sites will not be permitted to be posted on the board as well. Thread/posts for donation requests that are going directly to a charitable organization can be posted. *


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## Karen519

*Jen*

Jen

I will spread the word about Bear.


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## Claudia M

Rose Bud and I will do the same!


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## dborgers

Me three


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## Karen519

*Carolina Mom*

Thanks for the reminder-I TOTALLY forgot, although I was referring to my Facebook page, but removed it just the same. Don't want anything to be misconstrued.


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## CAROLINA MOM

Thank you Karen.

Rule #14 was a decision that was reached by Board Members, it was not a Mod Decision. However, it is one that the Mod Team must be consistent with in all fairness to all members.


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## Brave

I understand. And as soon as I get to a computer (cause trying to edit a sig on a phone is crazy with my clumsy fingers) I will remove the FB link in my signature to remain in compliance. 

I apologize for the lapse in forum rules. It was honestly, not my intention. I respect the forum and mods greatly and appreciate the thread not being closed. 

We're at the vet right now so as soon as we leave I will update you all. I, like a dummy, left bear's X-rays on my kitchen counter. Gah! So we're waiting to have them emailed over to the surgeon. 


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## dborgers

*How We Can Help Bear Out*

Let's share Bear's situation and his Facebook page link on our own Facebook pages or via email, and in the message ask our friends to share it with theirs.

That'll spread the word to a lot of people pretty quickly, and wouldn't violate any rules here. 

That rule about fundraising directly here was enacted just before Brave signed up, and I know she knew nothing about it.

Let's get the word out on Facebook


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## Brave

Ok... Update from Dr. Serdy!!

First off, it was like talking with a colleague. I am not a vet but I have worked in the field and I researched so much about Bear's injury and treatment options. Dr. Serdy was very forthright and treated me like an equal, and we had a conversation (versus being spoken to). He does both TPLO and TTA and has certification to do both (though he said the certifications are no longer required, but he got his before they changed that). We went over TPLO vs TTA and am 100% comfortable with him and 100% sure he has bear's best interests at heart. 

With that said, he thinks a TPLO would be best but said I couldn't go wrong even if I chose a TTA. He said there is the ever slight increase in complications with a TTA and the ever slight increase in possibly tearing his meniscus with a TTA, which is why he prefers the TPLO, but he says that the risks are very very slight (<1%)

He wants us to wait until Bear is a year old to minimize damage to his growth plates. He told me that by doing the surgery now, we risk damaging his bone (which hasn't fully developed yet and is less dense than it will be when he is older). The risk in doing it too early is his leg starts bowing, or curving to the side, or stops growing so is shorter, etc. he said based on what we're doing, he is confident the risk of additional arthritis is minimal as long as we keep it up. No exercise. No playing. Staying quiet and staying calm. Yeah, it's a pain for us to keep him quiet for another 3 months before surgery but if that is best for Bear than that is what we do. He ideally wants us to revisit at 1 year (in late August) to redo x-rays, possibly redo the joint tap depending if he feels it is needed (he wants to make sure Bear doesn't also have an autoimmune disorder because he's seen it happen once before and it make recovery HARD for the middle-aged dog), then schedule surgery. 

He is honoring the 50% discount for Bear's rescue to everything! 

The estimate I got today just for surgery is for $2,110-$2,737. 

Post op visits and x-rays will cost $150 each time. 

So overall we're looking at worst case scenario $2,887 total. That's about $900 cheaper than Dr. Hampel's estimate. So we are going to go with Dr. Serdy. Now it's back to waiting and keeping him calm. 

 


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----------



## GoldensGirl

Friends, I have done a lot of careful editing of posts here, trying to keep this thread open. With respect to rule #14, please conduct all related discussion via PM or FB, not in this or any other GRF thread. Any further discussion of donations in this thread will result in further editing, if not in the closure of the thread.

Thanks so much for your help with this. Our goal is consistent enforcement of rules so that everyone receives the same treatment.


----------



## Rob's GRs

GoldensGirl said:


> Friends, I have done a lot of careful editing of posts here, trying to keep this thread open. With respect to rule #14, please conduct all related discussion via PM or FB, not in this or any other GRF thread. Any further discussion of donations in this thread will result in further editing, if not in the closure of the thread.
> 
> Thanks so much for your help with this. Our goal is consistent enforcement of rules so that everyone receives the same treatment.


Thanks Lucy,

I too want to state that as a Mod team we have to enforce board rules, even if many may not like or agree with them. We take nothing personally and I hope you do not hold anything against the Mod team.

So let only keep this discussion to matters Bears health. 

Thanks


----------



## OutWest

Brave said:


> Ok... Update from Dr. Serdy!!
> 
> First off, it was like talking with a colleague. I am not a vet but I have worked in the field and I researched so much about Bear's injury and treatment options. Dr. Serdy was very forthright and treated me like an equal, and we had a conversation (versus being spoken to). He does both TPLO and TTA and has certification to do both (though he said the certifications are no longer required, but he got his before they changed that). We went over TPLO vs TTA and am 100% comfortable with him and 100% sure he has bear's best interests at heart.
> 
> With that said, he thinks a TPLO would be best but said I couldn't go wrong even if I chose a TTA. He said there is the ever slight increase in complications with a TTA and the ever slight increase in possibly tearing his meniscus with a TTA, which is why he prefers the TPLO, but he says that the risks are very very slight (<1%)
> 
> He wants us to wait until Bear is a year old to minimize damage to his growth plates. He told me that by doing the surgery now, we risk damaging his bone (which hasn't fully developed yet and is less dense than it will be when he is older). The risk in doing it too early is his leg starts bowing, or curving to the side, or stops growing so is shorter, etc. he said based on what we're doing, he is confident the risk of additional arthritis is minimal as long as we keep it up. No exercise. No playing. Staying quiet and staying calm. Yeah, it's a pain for us to keep him quiet for another 3 months before surgery but if that is best for Bear than that is what we do. He ideally wants us to revisit at 1 year (in late August) to redo x-rays, possibly redo the joint tap depending if he feels it is needed (he wants to make sure Bear doesn't also have an autoimmune disorder because he's seen it happen once before and it make recovery HARD for the middle-aged dog), then schedule surgery.
> 
> He is honoring the 50% discount for Bear's rescue to everything!
> 
> The estimate I got today just for surgery is for $2,110-$2,737.
> 
> Post op visits and x-rays will cost $150 each time.
> 
> So overall we're looking at worst case scenario $2,887 total. That's about $900 cheaper than Dr. Hampel's estimate. So we are going to go with Dr. Serdy. Now it's back to waiting and keeping him calm.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


What a mixture of good and bad news.  It's going to be hard to keep Bear quiet for so long. (You knew that.) The rest of his puppyhood spent resting.... I know a lot of people on GRF get very creative in entertaining their dogs during the winter months. There are several threads on here about games, etc. But perhaps you should start a new one, asking for ideas for things that will tire his brain out without using his legs too much. 

Congrats on getting things pulled together for the surgery. That's wonderful--even though it's going to be a long haul.


----------



## OutWest

Had another thought... may seem odd but what the hey? How about putting an ad in Craigs List. Give a blurb about Bear's unique situation and ask if anyone in your neighboring area with a pool would be willing to let Bear swim a couple times a week? Couldn't hurt to ask? If you ran it for a couple weeks, you might just get a couple volunteers...


----------



## GoldensGirl

Jen, my apologies. I have accidentally deleted your post when I was trying to quote it. Clumsy fingers moving too fast...

As Rob said, please limit the thread to discussion of Bear's health. 

Thank you,
Lucy


----------



## Brave

GoldensGirl said:


> Jen, my apologies. I have accidentally deleted your post when I was trying to quote it. Clumsy fingers moving too fast...
> 
> As Rob said, please limit the thread to discussion of Bear's health.
> 
> Thank you,
> Lucy


It's all good. I thought I was hallucinating when I saw my name on something I hadn't written. Ha!! 

Only Bear's health moving forward. Got it. 

Thank you again, for working so hard to keep our thread open. I apologize for needing to have the mods come in and fix everything. 

Thank you for being polite and kind while we got on the same page. I appreciate your patience and help. 




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## GoldensGirl

Brave said:


> It's all good. I thought I was hallucinating when I saw my name on something I hadn't written. Ha!!



Sorry about that. It was a nice post, too. I tried to get it back, but couldn't find a way.



Brave said:


> Only Bear's health moving forward. Got it.
> 
> Thank you again, for working so hard to keep our thread open. I apologize for needing to have the mods come in and fix everything.
> 
> Thank you for being polite and kind while we got on the same page. I appreciate your patience and help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


We do our best to keep this environment friendly for everyone. That's worth more than a little editorial work on my part.

I hope that Bear can have the surgery soon and that everything goes well for him and for you. There are a lot of Bear fans who will be pulling for him.

:wavey:


----------



## Bentleysmom

I'm happy to read that you'll be going forward with this Dr. I found the part about the bones being stronger closer to a year interesting. I have been trying to read up on the plates but I didn't realize the bones aren't very strong when they're young.
It's a wonder Bentley hasn't spent his puppyhood in a cast LOL

Sending hugs to all.


----------



## Brave

Bentleysmom said:


> I'm happy to read that you'll be going forward with this Dr. I found the part about the bones being stronger closer to a year interesting. I have been trying to read up on the plates but I didn't realize the bones aren't very strong when they're young.
> It's a wonder Bentley hasn't spent his puppyhood in a cast LOL
> 
> Sending hugs to all.


It is so interesting! It makes sense in a way because Pano happens when the bone marrow density doesn't..... What's that thing... Solidify??? Uniformly. Or so I understand. Too bad I can't give Bear milk or calcium. It's good for those bones. Ha!


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## Tayla's Mom

It's good that you have a final answer and the decision is made. Now all that is left to do is wait and keep a puppy quiet for 3 more months. You've done a good job so far so it will go fast.


----------



## Bentleysmom

Brave said:


> It is so interesting! It makes sense in a way because Pano happens when the bone marrow density doesn't..... What's that thing... Solidify??? Uniformly. Or so I understand. Too bad I can't give Bear milk or calcium. It's good for those bones. Ha!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


You bring up a good point. I wonder if pups can take calcium supplements. Looks like I have more research to do


----------



## Brave

OutWest said:


> Had another thought... may seem odd but what the hey? How about putting an ad in Craigs List. Give a blurb about Bear's unique situation and ask if anyone in your neighboring area with a pool would be willing to let Bear swim a couple times a week? Couldn't hurt to ask? If you ran it for a couple weeks, you might just get a couple volunteers...


Thanks! I never thought of that. 


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## Brave

Bentleysmom said:


> You bring up a good point. I wonder if pups can take calcium supplements. Looks like I have more research to do


I think the answer is NO because I hear ppl to about calcium/phosphorus ratios in food and too high hurts puppies?? Or something. But please research. 


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## OutWest

Brave said:


> I think the answer is NO because I hear ppl to about calcium/phosphorus ratios in food and too high hurts puppies?? Or something. But please research.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I bet you could give him goat's milk regularly... ? They supposedly digest that more easily than cow's milk. I used to give it to Tucker as a puppy when he was learning to sleep through the night. I'd warm it and put a little melatonin in it. He loved it. (I figured if milk helps little kids sleep, then it might help puppies too... LOL) Anyway, it has calcium in it I would think... Oh well I'm nattering.


----------



## HiTideGoldens

Too much calcium can negatively impact skeletal development in growing puppies. That is why the calcium: phosphorous ratio is important. I will try to find a link explaining it.


----------



## Brave

Thanks! Where is my magic genie? I just want to cross my arms, wiggle my nose and have Bear perfect. ( physically cause he's already perfect everywhere else!!!) 




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## Bentleysmom

I found this article and many like it. Calcium supplements are out. But lets try that nose twitching thing, it worked for Samantha 

Calcium Supplements Great Danes | GREATDANELADY.COM


----------



## Brave

Bentleysmom said:


> I found this article and many like it. Calcium supplements are out. But lets try that nose twitching thing, it worked for Samantha
> 
> Calcium Supplements Great Danes | GREATDANELADY.COM


That's right!!!! Genie blinked!!!! I can do both!!! 


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## dborgers

Start calling your DH Darrin. Hey, it might work!!


----------



## Brave

I wonder how much muscle loss we'll be looking at with no exercise for 7 months. Yikes!!!!!!! I asked the vet if we can do swimming until the surgery and they said no. 

I thought it was worth a short because the water would keep him off the leg. Poo. 


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## Tayla's Mom

I'm sure there will be some, but once all is done it should be quickly built back up with the right types of exercises. Once surgery has been done you might want to check into exercises done with FitPaws. It's quite the thing in canine conditioning. Once Tayla gets a little older I'm going to start her on some easy ones to build up her hip muscles.


----------



## Brave

Omg! I went to their site!! Genius! I wonder if I can get a pic of bear and I balancing next to each other on or own balls. Wanna bet Bear lasts longer than me?


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## Karen519

*Carolina mom*



CAROLINA MOM said:


> Thank you Karen.
> 
> Rule #14 was a decision that was reached by Board Members, it was not a Mod Decision. However, it is one that the Mod Team must be consistent with in all fairness to all members.


CAROLINA MOM:

I removed the link to my Facebook page.


----------



## goldy1

*Keeping Bear in my thoughts and prayers*

Jen,

I haven't had much time on the forum lately but caught up tonight on Bear's pending surgery. I will be keeping you guys in my thoughts and prayers.

When my Chance was Bear's age, he was lucky enough to have life-saving heart surgery. That was 6 years ago and Chance has lived a great life with no restrictions. I am so grateful and feel so blessed.

You are so dedicated to Bear. Your commitment comes through in your posts. He's such a beautiful boy and you are giving him the chance to live the life he was meant to live. It will be good and you have a lot of people rooting for Bear!


----------



## Brave

The support we've received and are still receiving from people is immense and unbelievable. I honestly, didn't think that many people a) knew about Bear or his situation, b) followed us through the past two months c) cared. 

I know that last bit is harsh - but having what equates to strangers, pouring their heart and soul into encouraging us and letting us know we're not alone is so foreign to me. I keep hearing "there are so many people in your corner/rooting for Bear" I honestly didn't think there was. I told DH last night that I thought there was like 15 ppl who know us on here and have been following our journey. I never thought I would rank high on anyone's list. 



My heart is so full of appreciation and gratitude to all the kindness shown us here. <3


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## Brave

Today's update: 

I think Bear is achy today. He kept pestering me to rub his legs and kept trying to get into the tub. I put him in there and just ran warm-hot (not too hot) water over his rump and legs. He was very happy. I had to kick him out of the bathroom so I could shower in peace. He kept trying to climb back in. 

It is my understanding that we need to keep up the massages and the stretches while we prepare for surgery in August to help mitigate muscle loss and to keep him limber to make rehab easier. He's totally loving the massages. The little glutton. 


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## swishywagga

Thinking of you and sweet Bear, sending big hugs across, your doing a great job!


----------



## OutWest

Brave said:


> Today's update:
> 
> I think Bear is achy today. He kept pestering me to rub his legs and kept trying to get into the tub. I put him in there and just ran warm-hot (not too hot) water over his rump and legs. He was very happy. I had to kick him out of the bathroom so I could shower in peace. He kept trying to climb back in.
> 
> It is my understanding that we need to keep up the massages and the stretches while we prepare for surgery in August to help mitigate muscle loss and to keep him limber to make rehab easier. He's totally loving the massages. The little glutton.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Are you just doing gentle rubbing, or a particular method of massage? I know there is a physical therapy massage that is designed for dogs and have thought about learning it.


----------



## autumn's mom

Bear knows what's good for him! Sorry he is having a rough day though.


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## *Laura*

Just catching up. I hope Bear isn't too achy. I'll be thinking of you and Bear.


----------



## dborgers

A large ice pack around the knee will help with inflammation. We went through an ACL tear with Andy, but because he was doing chemo they couldn't do surgery. He developed a big knot on his knee. During the weeks and weeks we had to restrict his movements I iced down his knee a few times a day. Seemed to help him feel better. 

It just sucks Bear can't go out and play, but all that will be a thing of the past before you know it


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## Brave

He is feeling better tonight. He was all wags, and kisses, and happiness when I came home tonight. I squat down so he doesn't have the urge to jump on me, and he totally snacked on my ear. By the time I got into the kitchen, from the front door, he was licking my arm and nudging my hands. I looked down at him and said, "What?" He flopped on his back and DEMANDED belly rubs. Who am I to refuse?!? 

So there we were, Bear on his back, tail wagging, smiling from ear to ear, tongue hanging out, wigging his body across the floor as I rub his belly and tell him how much I love him and missed him when I was at work. 

That is the moment that keeps me sane during my work day... to come home to THAT!

<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3

You guys, I'm so in love with this puppy. 110% in love with Bear. He is such a great boy. I am SOOOOOOO lucky to have him.


----------



## Sheldon's Mom

Jen
Glad to hear Bear was feeling better tonight.
Hugs from me and Sheldon !!!!


----------



## Karen519

*Bear*



Brave said:


> He is feeling better tonight. He was all wags, and kisses, and happiness when I came home tonight. I squat down so he doesn't have the urge to jump on me, and he totally snacked on my ear. By the time I got into the kitchen, from the front door, he was licking my arm and nudging my hands. I looked down at him and said, "What?" He flopped on his back and DEMANDED belly rubs. Who am I to refuse?!?
> 
> So there we were, Bear on his back, tail wagging, smiling from ear to ear, tongue hanging out, wigging his body across the floor as I rub his belly and tell him how much I love him and missed him when I was at work.
> 
> That is the moment that keeps me sane during my work day... to come home to THAT!
> 
> <3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3
> 
> You guys, I'm so in love with this puppy. 110% in love with Bear. He is such a great boy. I am SOOOOOOO lucky to have him.


So glad to hear that Bear was feeling better. Ask the Doctor if you should be doing the massages and stretches, etc., while waiting for surgery.


----------



## Megora

^ I didn't get a chance to watch this (at work, watching videos would be really stretching my online privileges), but I saw the title and immediately thought about what you are going through for the next 2+ months with your sweetmeats.


----------



## Brave

Thanks Megora!!!! Those are such great training "tricks". I really like it. I will have to revisit it when I am on the computer this weekend and print out how-tos to teach each trick. 




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## Pixie

ooohhh I could picture that cute smooshie love scene between you and Bear 

Megora, great link (I haven't seen it either - also at work. But it seems really useful for situations like the one Bear is going through). 

A tight hug for you all and a big slobber from Pixie


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## Brave

Bear's being a dudebag, today. I love him to pieces but geewhiz, I just want you to chill out. 

I've resorted to drugs and bribery. He's gnawing on a marrow bone and I've given him a benedryl hoping to knock him out for at least a few hours.


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## xoerika620xo

Whew! I finally caught up from the last time I left off at. Wow so much has happened. I am glad you are getting the help you need from everyone, and I'm so glad you and bear finally got answers with a doctor you can actually trust. Some games I would play with Chester when he was a lot younger and it was winter was hide a treat in one out of 3 cups and shuffle it and have him sniff out what cup had the treat.. His tail would wag like crazy and he loved it! I'm glad things are getting better even though soon you are going to be dealing with a high energy puppy lol I wish you guys the best and ill continue to keep reading on bears journey. 


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## Brave

Erika - are you done with the semester? Bet you are excited!!!! How did/are finals going?


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## xoerika620xo

Brave said:


> Erika - are you done with the semester? Bet you are excited!!!! How did/are finals going?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I wish! I'm actually done with the spring semester but I wanted to take pre cal in the summer so I can take calculus in the fall so I won't be done until June 18. Finals went well actually I got 2 B's one b+ and a A. Thanks for asking.


----------



## Brave

Party in the forum!!!!! I do not miss college. Lol. Good luck in pre-calc and calculus. I dropped calculus three times because it was too hard, for me. If I go back to school, calculus is getting its own semester with no other classes. 

Your going to do so great!!! Your so smart. 


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## xoerika620xo

Brave said:


> Party in the forum!!!!! I do not miss college. Lol. Good luck in pre-calc and calculus. I dropped calculus three times because it was too hard, for me. If I go back to school, calculus is getting its own semester with no other classes.
> 
> Your going to do so great!!! Your so smart.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Aww thank you so much. I cannot wait for it to be over and he's calculus is hard I get tutored in pre ca already so imagine for the future lol. I think the key is to stay on top of it and don't fall behind.


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## Ylan's Mom

It sounds like you are taking the right steps by observing him at doing the x-ray... Best with the vet visit ...


----------



## jacksilas

is he okay?
what did the vet say?


----------



## Brave

jacksilas said:


> is he okay?
> what did the vet say?


All the vets agree that he has a torn ACL in his left knee and needs surgery. 

Because he is only 9 months old - we have to wait until he is a year old to do surgery. They don't want us to hurt his growing bones.  


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## SandyK

That's going to be tough to keep him fairly calm for 3 months. Will he be on pain meds the whole time?


----------



## Brave

SandyK said:


> That's going to be tough to keep him fairly calm for 3 months. Will he be on pain meds the whole time?


No pain meds. The doctors feel he isn't in pain so they think its a waste of money on our end. We do still have some Rimadyl and tramadol in case he needs it, but with no activity it isn't likely he'll "overdo it" and need pain meds. 


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## Brave

Bear had a horrible night last night. Sometime during the night he had diarrhea all over his crate and the walls, smushed into his bedding. Then he vomited all over it. 

I woke up this morning to the worst poo smell ever!!! I thought it was the cats so I spent 20 minutes searching the bedroom trying to find the poo o no avail. I think Bear heard I was up cause he started whining and so I went to let him out. The poo smell stayed with me and I was convinced one of the cats butt stamped my face so there was poo smell right there. Then I lifted the blanket over his crate and there was poo everywhere. 


I hustled bear out of his crate and outside, woke up my DH and filled him in. DH told me to take Bear and he'll take the crate (short end of the stick). Bear is all clean now and were still cleaning up the mess. It's honestly everywhere. 

Bear has made "erping" noises once this morning. We're on kibble and rice this morning. Casey the cat erped this morning too. Vomit everywhere!!!!!! 

I feel like a poo-ey mom...... Not realizing he was in trouble sooner. Always on the weekend and holidays. Right?? 

His gums are normal and his mouth does NOT small like poo, so I think the poo really did come out of his butt. He had poo all mashed in his pant feathers and tail. He is kinda lethargic right now, but idk if he is a) ashamed because he knows eliminating inside is a no-no (we didn't yell or chastise him, we've been gushing over him to make sure he is ok) or b) he doesn't feel good. 

Watch him and wait and see. 

He drank water in the tub (clean) and a little more out of his dish. We're about to give him some rice. *cross my fingers*


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## Brave

He looks alert.










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## Brave

Took him out to potty again and DH says it was gushing out like from a firehose. Trying rice and a banana instead of kibble. 

We're going through every thing of last night. DH gave him a piece of crust off a pizza. I gave him a small piece of pineapple. Other than that normal. 

He has a great appetite. Gobbling his food down. I gave him a 1/2 portion now, the rest will come later. 

Edit: autocorrect got me.


----------



## swishywagga

Jen, poor Bear and poor you. Keeping everything crossed that he feels better soon. Will stop by later to see how your all doing.


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## Ylan's Mom

Im sorry Bear needs surgery.  It is good that he is eating and alert. It is also good that you have a plan to make him better. I used a natural pain supplent with my Ylan who at 4 months was diagnosed with displasia. 
I will stop by to read how you are doing. You both are in my thoughts and prayers


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## OutWest

oooh poor Bear. upset tummy. don't you wish they could talk at times like this? I bet he'll bounce back quickly... at least he's not inclined to be too active today...


----------



## xoerika620xo

Aww no poor bear =[ I'm so sorry you guys are going through all of this. Could it be bear ate something outside? I hope you feel better bear! Hugs from Chester and I 


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## LilBitBit

It breaks my heart to read the progression of poor Bear's problems 

Hopefully banana/rice will be a good mixture for his belly.


----------



## Brave

He is perkier now than this morning. No poo since this morning either (diarrhea or otherwise). We're on the 3rd wash cycle for his bedding. >.< still smells like poo. We have about 5 more loads to do of bedding and towels, etc 

I think this is a fluke and isn't connected to his leg in any way. I think I will keep him close tonight to be safe. 


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## Brave

The good news? I got to trim ALL of his nails at once today. 

Then he nailed me with a paw and gave me a nice 4 inch cut. >.< I am good though. 

He seems to be 100% back to normal. Yay! We'll see what his poo(s) do. 


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----------



## xoerika620xo

Im so glad bear is getting back to normal.


----------



## Brave

Last poo of yesterday was mush, pudding even. But this morning we have soft (but formed!) poo. Whew!!!
Bear seems back to normal too. He's watching TV right now.


----------



## swishywagga

So glad to hear Bear is getting better. Must have been something he shouldn't have eaten. We still have this problem every so often with our senior boy. Oh the joys of doggie motherhood!


----------



## solinvictus

Crate rest activities for dogs





 Donna Hill


----------



## Brave

We spent the whole day lounging around the house in PJs..... But still his leg hurts. I honestly don't understand why when we are doing so much to promote healing and prevent worsening the injury. Bear is being a doll on leash, no pulling, no shenanigans and yet out of no where his leg just falls out from under him. He just took a face plant when we went to pee. And he is biting his leg feverishly. He pulls it away when I touch it (slight touch). So painkillers tonight and icing it down now. 

I cope well until he has pain. Then I feel like dung. I know it'll pass, it is in this moment that I struggle.


----------



## Ksdenton

Sorry to hear that. It must be really hard to wait through this. 


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## Ylan's Mom

Happy to hear Bear is doing better....yei!


----------



## dborgers

Jen, you're doing the very best you could right now. All you can do is continue to ice it down and give him painkillers. Has your vet prescribed Tramadol? It's a painkiller .. a mild narcotic. It'll help keep him a little calmer too. Not an expensive drug at all.


----------



## Brave

dborgers said:


> Jen, you're doing the very best you could right now. All you can do is continue to ice it down and give him painkillers. Has your vet prescribed Tramadol? It's a painkiller .. a mild narcotic. It'll help keep him a little calmer too. Not an expensive drug at all.


Yes. We have left over Tramadol from the joint tap. That is the painkiller I gave him tonight.


----------



## OutWest

Hang in there. Try keeping a journal so you can tell the assorted doctors exactly what is going on and how often. They might want to change the timing a bit if they know the details. Give Bear a big smushy hug from me.


----------



## xoerika620xo

oh jen i am sorry bear is having a tuff night. i know you wish there was more for you to do but your doing the best you can and i know he appreciates it. stay strong you two just a bit longer.


----------



## Brave

OutWest said:


> Hang in there. Try keeping a journal so you can tell the assorted doctors exactly what is going on and how often. They might want to change the timing a bit if they know the details. Give Bear a big smushy hug from me.


Dr. Serdy says if he starts exhibiting chronic pain and/or the legs get significantly worse to do the surgery sooner. Wait as long as we can but do the surgery if he gets worse. I hope tonight is one of those odd nights off. Like when my joints start complaining when the weather changes. I am off my game for a day or so but rebound quickly. This thread, is of sorts, our journal. I can go through it and see everything that's happened.  

Right now he's sleeping right next to me. He was mad that I didn't share my sherbet and that I didn't let him outside when I went to do laundry. He is convinced I am hoarding all the fun. Oh the stink eyes he gives me. But then he comes over and kisses my face and all is well in our world. 

Y'all really encourage me. I am so serious. I feel better already.


----------



## Max's Dad

So sorry to hear Bear is having a bad day--hope he feels better soon. Please take care of yourself also.


----------



## dborgers

One Tramadol is good for maintenance. It takes two or three to get them drowsy. Andy's bottle said up the three at a time, though we never gave him that much. He was older and interested in napping anyway. The Tramadol was just to help symptoms of arthritis. It's possible you may want to give Bear two to get him drowsier.

BTW, the Tramadol gets a lot cheaper if you get a larger quantity at one time, though being a DEA controlled narcotic, the vets have to be careful not to prescribe more than a certain amount of at one time. Ask your vet what the max prescription is he can give at one time. And shop around for price. Andy was on it for over a year. There was quite a big price difference pharmacy to pharmacy.


----------



## Pixie

One not so good night happens, sorry for that.
Dont let that drag you down! Hope your boy feels better in the morning


----------



## Gwen_Dandridge

So sorry for Bear. Keep you chin up. Hope that you and Bear have a good day.


----------



## Brave

He is a little stiff this morning, but all smiles. He is watching more and more TV as he gets older, so I put on MiB for him while I went to shower. As soon as I get in the tub and turn the water on, here comes Bear, climbing into the tub. He is getting less jumpy and more stepy which is good. I let him play in the water for a bit then I boot his furry butt out. He goes back out to the living room, I presume he is watching the movie. 10-15 minutes pass and then Bear starts growling, barking every few seconds. He comes trotting into the bathroom with his hackles up and barks at me. I tell him "almost done!" And when I get out he's sitting at the door staring down the hall. He looks at me and I say, "go find it. Walk!" And he trots off to the living room to bark at an Alien on the TV. 


Normally, he is penned into the living room section of our house, but right after meals, I leave the pen open so he can drink water at will. He is really good about NOT running in the house, which is the only reason why I trust him with the pen open. Everyone is so good about NOT riling him up. Thank goodness. 

Right now, he's chilling on his bed with his antler. Today looks like it'll be good.


----------



## MercyMom

Brave said:


> All the vets agree that he has a torn ACL in his left knee and needs surgery.
> 
> Because he is only 9 months old - we have to wait until he is a year old to do surgery. They don't want us to hurt his growing bones.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Oh my! That is quite the wait!


----------



## OutWest

Brave said:


> Dr. Serdy says if he starts exhibiting chronic pain and/or the legs get significantly worse to do the surgery sooner. Wait as long as we can but do the surgery if he gets worse. This thread, is of sorts, our journal. I can go through it and see everything that's happened.


That sounds like a good plan. I need to go back and look at Tucker's puppy threads... I used to post his weight while he was growing fairly often, and I'd like to write them down. They were in my calendar, and got accidentally deleted about a year ago.


----------



## Brave

Bear is starting to get cabin fever. He's trying to get his zoomies and I just SHUT THAT $%^& DOWN! His knees are pretty swollen, and I can feel the muscle mass disappearing. His shin bone is right under the skin, instead of surrounded by muscle. 

He is doing so great settling down when I get the ice pack. I think it's because I'm sitting on my the floor. His FAVORITE spot is curled up on my lap or between my legs on the floor cause his BELLY IS RIGHT THERE for rubs. 

Look at how awesome he is! 








And then he spun himself around like a breakdancer and said TEETH TIME!


----------



## dborgers

The muscle mass will come back once you get the surgery done and he can exercise and swim again.


----------



## D_IN_GR

Brave said:


> Bear is starting to get cabin fever. He's trying to get his zoomies and I just SHUT THAT $%^& DOWN! His knees are pretty swollen, and I can feel the muscle mass disappearing. His shin bone is right under the skin, instead of surrounded by muscle.
> 
> He is doing so great settling down when I get the ice pack. I think it's because I'm sitting on my the floor. His FAVORITE spot is curled up on my lap or between my legs on the floor cause his BELLY IS RIGHT THERE for rubs.
> 
> Look at how awesome he is!
> View attachment 197162
> 
> 
> And then he spun himself around like a breakdancer and said TEETH TIME!
> View attachment 197170



He looks comfortable your doing good in a tough situation.


----------



## goldensrbest

How is bear doing today?


----------



## MercyMom

Brave said:


> Bear is starting to get cabin fever. He's trying to get his zoomies and I just SHUT THAT $%^& DOWN! His knees are pretty swollen, and I can feel the muscle mass disappearing. His shin bone is right under the skin, instead of surrounded by muscle.
> 
> He is doing so great settling down when I get the ice pack. I think it's because I'm sitting on my the floor. His FAVORITE spot is curled up on my lap or between my legs on the floor cause his BELLY IS RIGHT THERE for rubs.
> 
> Look at how awesome he is!
> View attachment 197162
> 
> 
> And then he spun himself around like a breakdancer and said TEETH TIME!
> View attachment 197170


He looks so cute! I saw that on FaceBook this morning!


----------



## Karen519

*Bear*

Bear is such a doll!


----------



## Brave

Swelling is down, but were on day 3 of diarrhea (off/on) since Sunday. I don't think it's parasites, but better to be safe than sorry and he is due for his heart worm test anyways, so we are at the vets to do a fecal float and a Snap 4D test. Bear is ecstatic to be out of the house. I doubt he'll be so happy when he realizes why we're here. 

Btw he weighs 64.3 lbs this morning. My baby is putting on some weight, so I am going to monitor him very closely. I can feel his ribs so right now he is fine. I think he is just growing. 

They tell me his heart worm test will be valid for 2 years!!!! Though I will probably redo it every year to be safe.


----------



## Tayla's Mom

He is such a good boy. Not to mention he is very handsome. I know time is dragging, but in the scheme of things, it will pass and in 6 months things will be much better.


----------



## HolDaisy

Thinking of Bear, he's such a beautiful boy and you're doing such a great job of looking after him, hang in there!


----------



## Brave

idk how Bear's done all day since I've been at work, but i did get an update on his fecal float and heartworm test. 

Negative for parasites in his fecal float. YAY! If his diarrhea continues, I *might* deworm him to be safe but he's been on Trifexis consistently since November. We're switching him over to HeartGuard Plus, and I might be skipping flea/tick control since he's not allowed outside unless on leash and only for a grand total of MAYBE 30 minutes a day IF that. 

We opted for the Snap 4Dx test, and he came back negative for all four: heartworm, lyme's disease, Anaplasma phagocytophilum, and Ehrlichia canis. Whew! 

I hope it isn't parasites giving him diarrhea. What's that thing called? Cocidia?? Where the diarrhea is intermitten.


----------



## Ylan's Mom

It is good to know Bear is welcoming treatment, he looks happy getting an extra TLC dose. Hang in there, you are doing a wonderful job!


----------



## Karen519

*Bear*

We all love Bear!!


----------



## Brave

Bear is full of energy and really mouthy. With everything going on in our personal lives, Bear has become even more Velcro-y. He is rarely more than a foot away from me. 9 times out of 10 he is ON my foot.  

This morning I opted to let Bear in bed with us. Something I miss dearly right now. He is getting much better at the here command so that I can put him right next to the bed to lift him up without him JUMPING into bed. 

DH was awake but still enjoying the early morning sunrise before we have to face the day. As soon as Bear realized he was going to cuddle in bed, he got this huge open mouth grin with his tongue hanging out. Priceless. Onto bed he went. Bear went over immediately and nuzzled DH so DH "hid" under the covers and Bear had to get him out! They love this game. Bear found an opening and dove under the covers and goosed my husband!!! Then we all kinda fell into heaps around the bed petting and kissing Bear. We stayed like that for 30 minutes. Just loving on Bear and getting love back. Bear stole my pillow as his royal back rest. He is getting super long. He does these cute full body stretches where he stretches his front and back legs out at the same time. I kid you not. He is as long as the bed!!!! 

He would stretch, yawn, then slam his head on the pillow, tucking in sorta and cover his muzzle with a paw and sigh this ridiculously happy sound. 

I think he knows that THIS is the good life. 

Since Bear is not allowed to exercise. DH has been taking him around in the car for random things. I think it's helping to relieve his cabin fever. 

I am happy in this moment. The rest of the worries can wait an hour. All I need is snuggles from Bear. 

<3


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----------



## swishywagga

So cute! It's amazing the effect our dogs have on our wellbeing and happiness, really glad that Bear is happy and gave you a great start to your day. Hoping you and your DH have a fun weekend enjoying life with your sweet Bear.


----------



## OutWest

I'm glad you guys are all taking care of each other. And when Bear's legs are ready, he is going to run like the wind and never stop.


----------



## xoerika620xo

aw its because cuddling on the bed is the best!!! Chester know's on fridays as soon as my boyfriend leaves he can come into bed with me and cuddles and he gets super excited. i'm glad you guys are doing better.


----------



## Brave

Today marks the one year anniversary of my friends suicide. Things are somber. Bear is apparently going through his second fear stage and I am concerned its all my doing. He hasn't been outside to be socialized in what feels like forever. No stores. No parks. No walks. Nothing. I am torn between letting him grow out of it and going against doctors orders and taking him out.... Just to observe. We'd have to figure out a way to let strangers know not to approach him. I cannot risk him jumping. 

Regardless, I am sure we will get through this like everything else. I hope Bear is calm today. I haven't really allowed myself to grieve over A. And today is bring up a lot of emotions. Especially given my Dad's circumstances. 

Death sucks. 


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----------



## goldensrbest

I am so sorry, I really feel for you, I feel bad for bear also, it is going to be a long summer,for you both.


----------



## Brave

goldensrbest said:


> I am so sorry, I really feel for you, I feel bad for bear also, it is going to be a long summer,for you both.


Thank you. *big cyber hugs*


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----------



## OutWest

Brave said:


> Today marks the one year anniversary of my friends suicide. Things are somber. Bear is apparently going through his second fear stage and I am concerned its all my doing. He hasn't been outside to be socialized in what feels like forever. No stores. No parks. No walks. Nothing. I am torn between letting him grow out of it and going against doctors orders and taking him out.... Just to observe. We'd have to figure out a way to let strangers know not to approach him. I cannot risk him jumping.
> 
> Regardless, I am sure we will get through this like everything else. I hope Bear is calm today. I haven't really allowed myself to grieve over A. And today is bring up a lot of emotions. Especially given my Dad's circumstances.
> 
> Death sucks.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


This will be a hard, long day I bet. Hang in there.

Could you take Bear to a pet store or semi-busy street so he can sniff things and greet people? If he gets excited you could step on the leash? It would be good "no jump" practice for him. I know you don't want to risk further injury, but having dealt with an unsocialized fearful dog for the past few months, that's a life long problem also. 

I hope your day improves. Scratch Bear's ears and let him give you kisses. Maybe do some gardening.


----------



## MercyMom

Brave said:


> Today marks the one year anniversary of my friends suicide. Things are somber. Bear is apparently going through his second fear stage and I am concerned its all my doing. He hasn't been outside to be socialized in what feels like forever. No stores. No parks. No walks. Nothing. I am torn between letting him grow out of it and going against doctors orders and taking him out.... Just to observe. We'd have to figure out a way to let strangers know not to approach him. I cannot risk him jumping.
> 
> Regardless, I am sure we will get through this like everything else. I hope Bear is calm today. I haven't really allowed myself to grieve over A. And today is bring up a lot of emotions. Especially given my Dad's circumstances.
> 
> Death sucks.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I'm so sorry you are having to go through this dear! Hang in there!


----------



## Pixie

Big big hug for you and Bear! Just do something especial today to remember your friend and smush Bear with a lot of love


----------



## Karen519

*Brave*

Jen

Praying that the day got better for you and Bear.


----------



## Tayla's Mom

Sending you hugs and I know you have the strength and determination to get through, not only today, but all the days to come.


----------



## Ylan's Mom

Thinking of you and Bear.. Sending good vibes your way..


----------



## Brave

Sorry for being quiet the past few days. Just alot on my mind, ironically, Bear is the least of my worries right now. He's been such a wonderful boy. 

He chewed the heads off his nylabone last night. Gave myself half a heart attack when I realized what he had in his mouth. But now the nylabone is headless and no more worries!! 

We've reintroduced the multi-squeaker toy today. Previously he tried to either a) chew off the head/legs/tail or b) rip out the squeakers. This time he's been focused on making it squeak and carrying it around with him like a baby. 

We haven't had to "medicate" him for being hyper in weeks, which is nice. I SWEAR I need to glue his leash to my arm. Every time I get him out of the car, his leash just pops out of my hand and off my wrist before I get my fingers around it. Thankfully, Bear is super responsive to my commands of WOAH and COME! :appl:

Sunday, Bear scared me. Sunday, was a hard day for me. I was (and still am, to some extent) depressed and moody. I wanted Bear to come cuddle with me and help me smile, like he ALWAYS does. But he didn't. He became standoffish and moody. It's almost like he was feeling what I was feeling, or at least empathizing with me. I had to go out of my way to cheer him up, which was annoying on Sunday, but looking back - was probably the best thing for me. Being forced to participate in this life, with another being. Maybe he knew best after all. 

I'm still depressed and very angry at the world at large, right now. I've been reflecting on myself, my life, my thoughts, etc. Very reflective emotionally. Very introspective. Alot of things I'm reading, people's opinions and thought patterns are rubbing me the wrong way. So I'm trying to figure out why. A wise friend of mine told me that what you preceive someone says, says more about what YOU are experiencing than what that person actually said. 

And so, I keep trudging. Moving forward, one day at a time. Conquering one hurdle at a time. Thankfully, Bear is by my side to help me. I have a feeling, Bear is turning into more of a therapy dog than I had anticipated. 

Oooo... looks like he's popped the last squeaker in his toy. Only took him 5 hours. Whoops... Nope, he found a few more to tease. 

45 days until I see my Daddy.
~71 days until Bear's 1st birthday!!!!


----------



## Brave

My cuddle bug... snuggling on the sofa a few days ago. Perfection.


----------



## mudEpawz

thinking of you and bear. 

and yes, death sucks  

hang in there. things will get better.


----------



## OutWest

I know you're going through a lot right now ...glad Bear is cooperating in his care and treatment at least! Enjoy the weather and your pup. He sure looks like a cuddle bug.


----------



## Karen519

*Jen*

Jen

Glad to see you posting.
Happy that Bear is cooperating.
What a beautiful picture of him on the sofa!


----------



## inge

Thinking of you and Bear...


----------



## goldensrbest

Your a smart lady, your words about what people say, and our thoughts are so true, on how we perceive them, is so true. Life gets us down, sometimes.


----------



## Brave

Bear is having a bad evening. Nothing seems to help. I thought it was just achy but I have just given him a tramadol to see if that helps. He is ever shifting, unable to settle. Ice doesn't help rubbing his legs doesn't help. I thought we were cruising just fine. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr. 

He just started panting out of no where. So here comes a pain pill. Poor puppy. 


His fear stage seems to be getting worse but it's only connected to DH and the back door/back yard. Bear is fine in the front yard.... Car..... Store..... Etc. just DH and the back door and yard. This is frustrating to no end. I keep telling DH he needs to take it slow and have patience. But DH either doesn't want to or doesn't have the patience to just chill on the back stoop waiting or Bear to come up to him. This would have been easier to deal with if I could fix it myself. If its something I could sit on the back stoop and work with him on but he's fine with me. 

Praying for patience all around the house. 


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----------



## dborgers

One Tramadol may not be enough if Bear is in a considerable amount of pain.


----------



## goldensrbest

Poor bear, I think of you and him a lot, prayers being sent.


----------



## amy22

Thinking of you and Bear. Hope today Is a better day


----------



## HolDaisy

Thinking of you and Bear at this difficult time.


----------



## MercyMom

Brave said:


> Bear is having a bad evening. Nothing seems to help. I thought it was just achy but I have just given him a tramadol to see if that helps. He is ever shifting, unable to settle. Ice doesn't help rubbing his legs doesn't help. I thought we were cruising just fine. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.
> 
> He just started panting out of no where. So here comes a pain pill. Poor puppy.
> 
> 
> His fear stage seems to be getting worse but it's only connected to DH and the back door/back yard. Bear is fine in the front yard.... Car..... Store..... Etc. just DH and the back door and yard. This is frustrating to no end. I keep telling DH he needs to take it slow and have patience. But DH either doesn't want to or doesn't have the patience to just chill on the back stoop waiting or Bear to come up to him. This would have been easier to deal with if I could fix it myself. If its something I could sit on the back stoop and work with him on but he's fine with me.
> 
> Praying for patience all around the house.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I'm so sorry you are going through this dear!


----------



## Karen519

*Jen*

Jen

I'm only saying this out of love and my concern for Bear and you.
Can you talk to the Doctor and tell him what Bear is going through and ask if there is anyway the surgery can be done sooner?
Praying for you both!


----------



## OutWest

How iris he today? What is the issue with DH and the back door? I guess I missed it. Is he not wanting to come to DH? Try extra tasty treats if so. Something really yummy--and only DH give them out. Poor little Bear. He's going through so much. Sending hugs to all of you.


----------



## Brave

I contacted the hospital to see if we should move up the surgery. He is still walking on it, so from what I understood from Dr. Serdy previously, we should still wait. But I am double checking.

Also checked on the amt of Tramadol Bear is allowed. 

Out west - the DH door thing just popped up. He is fine around DH..... Just not when he wants Bear to go outside. It's very weird. I asked if it only happens when I am around (b/c last night Bear ran to me and curled under my legs with his was on my knee --- he looked really scared) but DH says its only 1/2 as hard when I am not around but he still freaks out. He freaks out so much he pees before we're outside or immediately outside on the stoop. He is fine with me. So idk what is going on. Bear is fine coming up to DH. We tried the treats. But it doesn't seem to make a difference. DH refuses to try the greets with the door open and him sitting on the stoop. Which is frustrating to me because (duh!) that's what he needs to be doing. 

DH just sent this to me. DH is home sick and Bear is cuddling with him. 










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----------



## OutWest

Brave said:


> I contacted the hospital to see if we should move up the surgery. He is still walking on it, so from what I understood from Dr. Serdy previously, we should still wait. But I am double checking.
> 
> Also checked on the amt of Tramadol Bear is allowed.
> 
> Out west - the DH door thing just popped up. He is fine around DH..... Just not when he wants Bear to go outside. It's very weird. I asked if it only happens when I am around (b/c last night Bear ran to me and curled under my legs with his was on my knee --- he looked really scared) but DH says its only 1/2 as hard when I am not around but he still freaks out. He freaks out so much he pees before we're outside or immediately outside on the stoop. He is fine with me. So idk what is going on. Bear is fine coming up to DH. We tried the treats. But it doesn't seem to make a difference. DH refuses to try the greets with the door open and him sitting on the stoop. Which is frustrating to me because (duh!) that's what he needs to be doing.
> 
> DH just sent this to me. DH is home sick and Bear is cuddling with him.
> 
> View attachment 202770
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


maybe you need to secretly smear peanut butter on DH's legs when he's not looking. Juuuust kidding. sort of . :

Sigh. As if you don't have enough going on already.


----------



## Karen519

*Jen*

Jen

Let us know what the Doc says about moving up the surgery.
I know all meds have side effects-maybe Bear's behavior has something to do with the tramadol?


----------



## goldensrbest

I am worried about bear,and you, how is it going?


----------



## xoerika620xo

Just catching up on what I've missed. I hate reading when your DH, you, And Bear are having rough days...I hope today is a bit better.


----------



## Ylan's Mom

Keep praying for you ... one day at a time. If moving the surgery is the best, it will happen.


----------



## Brave

Here's the update from Dr. Serdy: 



> Hi Mrs. [removed by author]
> 
> We should try our hardest to wait until Bear is a year old. If you haven't already, start glucosamine/chondroitin and fish oil supplements -
> 
> glucosamine 500-1000mg daily
> chondroitin 400-800mg daily
> 
> fish oil (EPA and DHA are the two primary active ingredients) - give EPA 1500mg daily, or some formulations only give the combination dose, in which case give EPA/DHA 2700mg daily. There is a prescription diet (Hill's J/D) that has all the fish oil in it already and avoids having to give several capsules each day.
> 
> Keep going with Tramadol 50mg tablets - wide dose range - start with 1.5 tablets twice daily (or maybe just once daily each night if that is when he is most sore), with a maximum dose of 2.5 tablets four times daily. The higher the dose, the more sedation you will see.
> 
> Make sure that his activity is kept fairly low - leash walks but avoid running and playing etc. Let me know how things go. We can do surgery sooner, but I will keep trying to talk you out of it.
> 
> Mike Serdy


So we up his fish oil. He's only getting 1800 mg right now. Bear is doing better the past few days. He's started doing the bounce in place that I thought he outgrew, so he almost gave me a concussion when he slammed his OH DEAR GOD THICK SKULL into my temple when I leaned down to keep him from jumping.

His fears seem to be going away, out of the blue. DH didn't have a problem with Bear yesterday so I'm going to cross my fingers that it was fluke and we're over it. 

I'm doing ok. I successfully prevented myself from going from sniffles to a full blown cold. /yay! However, things at work are crazy, more so than normal. so there is anxiety there. I had a mini melt-down yesterday at my desk (thankfully I am quiet and in the back), so my TL and I took a walk and talked about everything that's going on. I feel better, but still very stressed out. I cannot wait for today to be over so I can go home and crawl into bed. 

Thank you so much everyone for the ideas and the thoughts and well wishes. If I'm absent for a bit, I promise, no one here ran me off. Bear and I send our love across the internet cables. <3


----------



## Tayla's Mom

Thinking of you guys and praying that the time passes quickly for you and with the least amount of pain and upset for Bear. I love seeing your updates and pictures of him.


----------



## Karen519

*Bear*



Brave said:


> Here's the update from Dr. Serdy:
> 
> 
> 
> So we up his fish oil. He's only getting 1800 mg right now. Bear is doing better the past few days. He's started doing the bounce in place that I thought he outgrew, so he almost gave me a concussion when he slammed his OH DEAR GOD THICK SKULL into my temple when I leaned down to keep him from jumping.
> 
> His fears seem to be going away, out of the blue. DH didn't have a problem with Bear yesterday so I'm going to cross my fingers that it was fluke and we're over it.
> 
> I'm doing ok. I successfully prevented myself from going from sniffles to a full blown cold. /yay! However, things at work are crazy, more so than normal. so there is anxiety there. I had a mini melt-down yesterday at my desk (thankfully I am quiet and in the back), so my TL and I took a walk and talked about everything that's going on. I feel better, but still very stressed out. I cannot wait for today to be over so I can go home and crawl into bed.
> 
> Thank you so much everyone for the ideas and the thoughts and well wishes. If I'm absent for a bit, I promise, no one here ran me off. Bear and I send our love across the internet cables. <3


Jen: So glad to hear that Bear is doing better.


----------



## Brave

Bear is feeling 110% better. How do I know? He's driving me batty.

I went to bed early last night and since DH wasn't planning in coming to bed anytime soon, Bear and I got some sleep together. This morning, Bear has spent the last 4 hours going a mile a minute. We played tug to wear him out. He lays down and we tug back and forth on the sofa. It's like assisted sit-ups. He's finally sleepy, so he settled on the floor on my foot. 

He just rolled over and grabbed my other foot and went straight back to sleep. My


----------



## inge

That is great news! Now take good care of yourself, too!


----------



## SandyK

Very glad to see Bear is doing good. Love that picture of holding your foot!!


----------



## Pixie

I have been out of town for the week, but am finaly back 

Good to hear that Bear is no longer afraid of your husband, god know what went through his little head 

How are the house games you were playing? Still managing to keep him busy on the quiet side?

Big hug for you guys


----------



## goldensrbest

So glad bear is feeling better.


----------



## Karen519

*Bear*

So glad that Bear is feeling better!


----------



## xoerika620xo

I was looking for this thread and couldn't find it. I'm glad bear is feeling much better today and I'm sorry your stressed out. I know it's easier said than done but just try to take one step at a time. 


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----------



## Brave

Keeping the munchkin occupied. I love KONG products!!! He's been chewing on this for over an hour and *knock on wood* it's still surviving.


----------



## inge

That thing is a giant! How does he get his jaws around it...?


----------



## love never dies

Glad to hear he is better.


----------



## Brave

inge said:


> That thing is a giant! How does he get his jaws around it...?


It's a squishy dummy. So when he bites, air comes out the butt and it deflates. Durable skin, unable to be popped. He carries it around by the handle at the top or bites it and carries it around. He keeps looking at the bottom like "where's the treat hole??!"


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## Ylan's Mom

So glad Bear is better! Such a big fun toy!!!


----------



## Karen519

*Bear*

I just love the pictures of Bear and his giant Kong!

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...362-bear-struggling-get-up-last-night-71.html


----------



## Davidrob2

That is the biggest Kong I have ever seen. It looks like Bear loves it.


----------



## Brave

And it bounces.  though we try not to let it bounce right now. It hypes him up. 


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----------



## dborgers

LOL That's a


----------



## Brave

dborgers said:


> LOL That's a


I totally snorted tea when I saw this. 


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## CAROLINA MOM

That Kong is huge, I've never seen one this big, how fun.

Glad to hear he's doing better.


----------



## Brave

Bear is still riding the good days so far. He'll be 10 months tomorrow. ~61 days to go!!!!


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## Karen519

*Bear*

Happy 10 months, tomorrow, Bear-you are a BIG BOY!


----------



## mudEpawz

Happy 10 Months Bear! Chloe and I are glad to hear youre doing well


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## Brave

I gotta wonder if the extra 900 mg of DHA/EPA are the difference. 

Bear was getting 1800 mg. and the doc pushed it to 2700 mg. 


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## HolDaisy

Love the photos of Bear with his giant kong. Looks like so much fun, Sammy would love that! Happy 10 months tomorrow


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## dborgers

Happy 10 month eeeeeve to you ..
Happy 10 month eeeeeve to you
Happy 10 month eve Beaaaaaar
Happy 10 month eeeeeve to you


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## Ylan's Mom

Happy Birthday Bear! Have a treat!!!


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## Buddy's mom forever

Happy 10 months to sweet Bear, I am glad he is having good days.


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## love never dies

Happy 10 months


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## Brave

We're on day two of "OMG IT'S A KONG!" 

He is still comical and doing GREAT!!!! We're back in the phase of struggling to keep him quiet. He's normally so good at entertaining himself. I am SO LUCKY! 

He's in the middle of another (or the second part of the same) coat blow. My car is a disaster from his hair... and my sofa. :doh:

Here are so pictures from this evening. Can you tell how happy Bear is when I get home? This tends to be our ritual. I come home, sit on the floor and love on Bear.


----------



## Karen519

*Bear*

IT is plain to see how crazy Bear is about you!
Love the happy pictures!


----------



## Goldenssobeautiful

Bear is so cute with his Kong....he just loves you so much!


----------



## dborgers

If Bear could only learn how to relax and chill in your lap LOL


----------



## Brave

dborgers said:


> If Bear could only learn how to relax and chill in your lap LOL


Bear is of the mindset that unless we're occupying the same space... We are TOO FAR APART!!! 

I joked with my DH that Bear frenches me more than him. Ha! I'll be talking and out of no where Bear strikes. DH says its a sign I need to talk less. Lol!!

He was super barky this morning. I had all the doors open to let in the awesome morning chill. He would sit next to me and do this rumble deep in his throat. Kids like a husky does when they talk. 


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## SandyK

Bear looks so very happy!! It must be so hard at times to keep him calm.


----------



## Buddy's mom forever

Bear is not much older than Charlie, can't imagine how hard is for him to go with no running. You guys are doing great with him. I am so looking forward to see the picture of sweet Bear running like wind.


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## Brave

I think I will be that over cautious mom who doesn't let her kid run until the doctors tell me it's 100% ok. 

We keep our spirits up by doing errands together. We sit in the backyard in the early mornings to take in the activity. The little birds, the smells, the sounds. If I get a pine cone for Bear to play with - his life is complete. He will inevitably roll around in weeds, foxtails and burrs then come roll/rub on me. This morning I came back in with a muddy dress and muddy paw prints on my arms and legs. So we sat in the kitchen and brushed them all out. Then Bear came outside with me to take out some trash. A street sweeper was rumbling down the road, so I brought him closer (long driveway) and kept him there saying "good boy" when he was relaxed and calm. I am so proud of him. Normally he is all lunge-y and bark-y but today he just stood there with a curious look and a wagging tail. 

I am thinking of ways to work on CGC material with him. I think the thing we have to work on the most is polite greeting those with dogs. Bear needs to learn that he greets when I say ok otherwise he is to stay by me. I hope it'll come with training and maturity. I think this weekend I'll give my DH a roll of quarters for the arcade at the mall and ask him to take us. We'll sit outside (boring) and DH can play his arcade games then come get us. That should give us some socialization time and experience. And if DH drops us at the curb we can limit Bear's walking. 

I am dying to get him another marrow bone. The butchers have been all out recently.  they are like my go-to treat these days. 

I can also see Bear's growth is slowing down. We've dropped his food from 3-4 cups a day to 2. It's easier and easier to see how his body is because its not constantly going through spurts. I wonder if he'll get taller between now and 1 year. Maybe the joints will just continue to fill out and become more dense. 

What are good 1 year birthday presents??

P.s. he still hasn't broken the giant kong. They sure do make things that last. 


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## Brave

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## Brave

Still hanging tight. More good days than bad. Bear does have moments late at night where it is a pure struggle to get up but he has either figured out the best way to do it or his body is compensating, because all it takes is a heave and a ho(hoe??) and he is up. 

I am trying indoor exercises since I don't have my walking buddy. Bear was soooooo cute during my yoga stretches. I was doing a downward dog and he walked under me as if to say "higher!" Or "I'll catch you if you slip"

Then I was doing a child's pose to stretch out my back and Bear went down into a play bow then started stretching his stomach and forelegs out. 

<3

We had an adventure this morning. Our brand new (9 months new) toilet broke and our plumber couldn't come when someone was home so I gave him access to the house and I crated Bear. No complaints from the plumber so either Bear ignored him or wasn't too much of a nuisance in our absence. No complaints from the neighbors either so I think Bear was good. I told Bear before I left for work that we were expecting a guest and he needed to behave himself. Maybe he understood me. 

Less than 2 months until his big birthday. 


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## Karen519

*Bear*

Praying for Bear everyday!


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## Brave

We're still hanging in there. Nothing new to report on Bear's end. I am amazed how good he is. 

We just started uncrating him while we're at work on a trial basis to see how he does. You know what he does?? He curls up on his dog bed with a chewie and sleeps. I came home early yesterday because I am under the weather. I walk in the door and there Bear is looking at me with sleepy eyes. He gets up and does the biggest stretch then moseys over to say hi. My energetic puppy moseys!! No mess. No accidents. Everything was just as we left it.

Since I wasn't feeling well, I went straight to bed. Bear accompanied me and slept curled up next to me for about 5 hours. 

We are so lucky to have Bear. I am so blessed. 


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## jacksilas

I have been following Bear's thread since joining and wish you all the best.
I don't know how you do it. I can't imagine keeping a pup quiet.
But you do have the coolest toys!!!
Can I ask where you got the big squishy kong???
I have been looking and all I can find is a kong woobler (and that is not what it is right??)
Hi to Bear. . . . .


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## Brave

jacksilas said:


> I have been following Bear's thread since joining and wish you all the best.
> I don't know how you do it. I can't imagine keeping a pup quiet.
> But you do have the coolest toys!!!
> Can I ask where you got the big squishy kong???
> I have been looking and all I can find is a kong woobler (and that is not what it is right??)
> Hi to Bear. . . . .


This is a link to the Kong Bounzer. 
http://www.kongcompany.com/products/for-dogs/interactive/bounzer/bounzer-2/

We picked ours up on clearance at petsmart like 6 months ago. 

To be honest. We take it a day at a time. Some days we have to take it a minute at a time. Some days (like this evening) he drives me batty. Then we have good days where he is calmer and more quiet on his own. We go through a lot of chew toys. That is our main go-to for keeping him occupied. And learning new tricks like "paw". But to be honest - all of the credit goes to Bear. He allows it to work. For instance, he has proven himself to me so we no longer leash him in the house nor out in the yard. He will willingly stay with me and come back in as soon as I head for the door. 

If he didn't make it as easy as he does - I am sure I would be cursing and crying. I'd be bald from pulling my hair out. I think we're down to 6 weeks until his birthday (??). I cannot wait to get he surgery over with and get us on the road to recovery. 

Funny story: Bear is still learning Paw and I asked my hubby for a back rub and he was slow to respond so I turned around and said "Bear give me a back rub. Right here." And I tapped my shoulder that was hurting. And Bear tried to put his paw on it. He missed by a few inches but hey he tried!!!

Here is a pic my hubby took of it after he was done laughing his pants off. Bear repeated it for us about 6 times. I'm on my way to having my own masseuse.










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## jacksilas

OMG that is REALLY cute and smart.

Thanks for the kong info, I am going to keep looking (as I think it is a big version of what is inside Jack's baby Kong Snuggy which he stripped and chews on like gum ) ((and I have to find a bigger piece of gum before his mouth grows any more!))


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## Karen519

*Bear*

Love the picture of Bear-what a paw!


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## dborgers

Aw, he's such an affectionate doll.  I'll be glad when you guys can get his surgery done and he can resume the life of a young dog again. Won't be long now!


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## OutWest

What a dear guy he is! I love that picture. Have you set the surgery date? Seems like you could do it the day after his birthday--party one day, surgery (ouch!) the next. Hope you're holding up ok with all that is going on.


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## Brave

No set date for the surgery yet. His birthday is 8/13 which falls on a Tuesday. I want the surgery to be on a Thursday because they hold him overnight for 24 hours. That way we could supervise his next 48 hours at home. The doctors says he can do everything at once. We plan on takin x-rays ago and MAYBE another joint tap if there are large amounts of fluids in his knees still to rule out the autoimmune disorder. Then we could do surgery. I will probably try to take that day off since ill be running around like a chicken with my head chopped off. 


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## HolDaisy

Just to stay thinking of Bear. He's such a beautiful boy and I'm glad he's behaving so well and coping with his situation the best that he can do. I love his giant kong toy too! They really do make the best toys, they're the only ones of Sammy's that don't get destroyed.


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## Brave

We're still hanging in there. Nothing new to report. Some off days, more awesome days. Bear is turning into a DOG!!!!! You know the obedient, calmer and more responsive creature? The one that let's me brush him and comes when called. 65 lbs of cuddle bug. 

He is my protector and my counselor. My muse and my motivator. 

Right now he is playing toss with his puppy kong, while being gentle and not running or being hyper. Oh lord, he just rolled it over into the cat. Milo is NOT impressed. 

Last night was rough on me. I was feeling funky.... Like something was wrong but I couldn't put my finger on it, so I left Bear out in case I needed him (and more for the comfort of having him near). 1:45 am he wakes us up. All the dogs in the neighborhood are going crazy so Bear started barking. I didn't even open my eyes, just waved my hand in his direction and bemoaned the torture of this ruckus so early. He tried so hard to keep his barks in. He went from alert bark to muffled ruff, grumble grumble grumble, ruff. He even put his nose against the bedspread, as if to muffle the noise. Though he still got me up at 4 because he had to pee. 

He's moved on to the King Kong. Can you believe it's still going strong??


Oh and we scheduled surgery for 8/15. We'll do x-rays that morning and then surgery in the afternoon. Put enough time between his birthday and surgery so we can still celebrate. 

Anyways we're doing well. 7 weeks until his birthday!!!


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## dborgers

Aw, what a good boy  He's gonna be so happy when his knee is fixed up and you and he can go gallivanting all over the place


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## Karen519

*Bear*

Glad that Bear's surgery is drawing near-he will feel so good.


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## Brave

*Pictures!!!*

Can you believe June is almost over?? Cannot wait for the 4th of July. I plan on doing NOTHING! 

Here are some adorable shots of Bear taken today and yesterday. I love my munchkin! 









'I know that is MINE!!!!!!"








It's like a huge pacifier. 








He scooted his cutie pootie under my foot and I started rubbing his tummy without even realizing it!! Smart Bear! 








Bear and I posing for the camera. We're chilling. Love my cutie.


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## Bentleysmom

Great pics! I'm so proud of both of you, what you have been able to do so far is quite amazing!


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## coppers-mom

Seems like Bear has you well trained.


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## Brave

Bentleysmom said:


> Great pics! I'm so proud of both of you, what you have been able to do so far is quite amazing!


Lol. Thank you. But we haven't done anything. We have so far to go.  but now that I've accept Bear for everything he is, I am happier with him and around him. 


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## Brave

coppers-mom said:


> Seems like Bear has you well trained.


Lol. That's the trick. The pup trains the human. Works for potty training and fetch and kisses and sleeping in the bed. Lol!!! 


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## dborgers

Great pics! Thanks for posting them 

Bear sure is a cute munchkin!


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## Heart O'Gold

Bear is so adorable! Glad to see he is doing well!


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## Pixie

GReat pics! Love the one with the two of you, he looks such a cuttie 

Paws crossed for the 4th of July


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## Ksdenton

Bear is so cute and very unique looking. Do you get a lot of people asking what he is? I'd imagine they want one of their own. 


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## Brave

Ksdenton said:


> Bear is so cute and very unique looking. Do you get a lot of people asking what he is? I'd imagine they want one of their own.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Not as much now as when he was a puppy. We mostly get incredulous looks from ppl when we say he is a golden mix. He is 1 in a million!! And I am so happy he is mine. 


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## xoerika620xo

aww bear is so cute. i am so glad june is almost over surgery is coming soon and will be here before you know it.


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## jacksilas

Guess who got a Kong Bounzer tonight??????????
That's right, Jack, all because of Bear.
((I wasn't even looking, just stopped into pet store to get treats on way for ball game and some training, although I am sure the treats just jumped out of my pocket. . . ))
Anyway, it was a great mistake cause now there is a little man who is passed out cold from bouncing his bounzer.
Thanks Bear!!!!


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## Brave

Your welcome.

Ironically. Today marks the death of Bear's King Kong. He has cracked the top in half. We'll still let him play with it as long as chunks don't come off. It was a good run, King Kong. 


I am so happy your pup loves the Bounzer. I hope he has many many many happy adventures with it. 


Bear is chilling on his bed with a bone. Being amazing. <3


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## Brave

Happy Friday everyone!!!!! Thank the lucky stars!!!! 

Bear woke me up god awful early. But since I don't remember going to bed, I have to assume he reallllllly had to pee.  I love the fact that he has graduated from the crate. This makes my life so much easier and really enjoyable in the mornings when I wake up to his beautiful face. This morning he came over to my side of the bed and bopped me in the arm a few times, then went and licked my toes until I finally opened my eyes. So much nicer than the cats. Their idea of waking me up is tossing everything off my nightstand until they hit something I really care about..... Like my phone. Those meanies. 

When I wake up and look at him, he is resting his head on the bed, with his ears perked forward and his tongue hanging out. Best face!!!! He'll just stay there forever if I don't move. He'll start nuzzling whatever he can reach if I ignore him. Ooooohhhh and the tail thumping!!!!! Worth a 4:30 am wake-up call. 

This was our sight this morning. Isn't it gorgeous???!










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## dborgers

Aw, what a doll. And what a nice way to wake up


----------



## Brave

Danny your going to love this..........












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## dborgers

And you were right. I LOVED it!!


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## jacksilas

What an awesome pic.
Does he get in the tub often????
Jack will sit with his little chin resting on the edge watching me but has not gotten right in. . .


----------



## Brave

jacksilas said:


> What an awesome pic.
> Does he get in the tub often????
> Jack will sit with his little chin resting on the edge watching me but has not gotten right in. . .


Basically any time I am near it. Lord help us when I try to take a shower. But only if the water is warm. If its chilly he is outta there. 


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## Tayla's Mom

Brave said:


> Danny your going to love this..........
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 215178
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


That tub face is Tayla's face. Goofy and tongue hanging out.


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## Brave

Bear is having an off day. No pain that I can tell, but he is favoring his left leg. 

I just want this over and done with. We only have like 6 ish more weeks. 


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## dborgers

The wait must be tough. Good thing you saw the ortho the rescue recommended, who told you to wait until Bear was one and done growing. 

In the end it'll all work out just fine. Before you know it, you'll be posting pictures of Bear getting to enjoy doing this and that outside. He sure has been a great boy and shown a lot of patience for his age. And you're a good mom too


----------



## Bentleysmom

Poor Bear, I feel for both of you. I know it's not easy on you to keep him calm and that can't be easy on him either. I think you're both doing an amazing job! Chin up.


----------



## mudEpawz

checking in. sorry to hear that bear had an off day  

Have you booked a date with the vet yet?


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## Brave

Surgery is 8/15. 

Bear is feeling better this morning. He got me up at 4 am to pee (i went to bed early last night) but afterwards I told him to cool it because it was only 4 am and I don't have to be at work until 9:30. I woke up a few minutes ago to a rope toy in the bed, under the covers and everything! What!?? I think he was trying to get me to play but I was sound asleep. Lol!!!

I logically know I am doing my best, but some days he gets on my last nerves like he has been doing the past 3-4 days. 

The good news is this morning his limp is gone. Yay!!!!

Right now, Casey is on the counter getting some pets and Bear is licking her foot. She keeps kicking her foot at him like "ewwww stop!!!" And he just wags his tail. Silly dog. 


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## goldensrbest

Brave said:


> Bear is having an off day. No pain that I can tell, but he is favoring his left leg.
> 
> I just want this over and done with. We only have like 6 ish more weeks.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I am sure ,it is just so hard on you,and bear,your always in my thoughts.Just saw your post, glad she is feeling better.


----------



## Brave

goldensrbest said:


> I am sure ,it is just so hard on you,and bear,your always in my thoughts.Just saw your post, glad she is feeling better.


You are always in my thoughts as well. How are you?? 


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## CAROLINA MOM

Aug. 15th will be here before you know it.

I hope his surgery goes well and wish him a very speedy recovery.


----------



## Brave

He has finally settled down. He is watching Star Trek with me this morning. 


















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## Ksdenton

Don't you just feel so bad when they are bored and they can't go play? I know I am for Bentley when I'm working and he just wants to play. He lets out a big sigh. 


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## Brave

Well tonight is a struggle. He has about 50 burrs up his butt. He just had a barking fit at my feet. What. The. Deuce?!?!

Praying for patience. 

-exasperated 


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## dborgers

He's doing so well for a 10 month old boy who can't go run and play like other boys his age.

In 6 weeks plus rehab he'll be able to do all those things. We'll be cheering loudly!!


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## GoldensGirl

Try to think of it this way: When he has the energy to get on your last nerve, he's really doing pretty well! 

Some of the best advice I ever got goes like this: When life gives you lemons, don't suck them! Turn them in lemonade instead. Of course, I prefer to turn them into lemon meringue pie, but them I'm an overweight foodie.  

Strange as this may sound, I'm so happy for Bear and for you that he is taxing your patience. 

Hugs and prayers...


----------



## Brave

Thanks guys. I know he is doing so well given the circumstances. Mama just wants some peace tonight. I put him through some training and we worked on impulse control for 15 minutes. He took his supplements like a good boy and I set him down to work on a fully frozen kong. I hope it takes him more than 20 minutes to suck the banana out. If not, I have another kong frozen. And some marrow bones if need be. I am trying to be sparing since we're officially watching our waistline. He really has slowed down growing. 


I laugh at all the ppl who told me he'd be 90-100 lbs easy. Boy isn't even 70 lbs. 


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## dborgers

Well, Bear's cute as a button. We can't wait until he's gotten his ACL fixed and is romping and running and getting all that energy out like a young boy should. Poor kid. Ah, won't be too long now


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## xoerika620xo

GoldensGirl said:


> *Try to think of it this way: When he has the energy to get on your last nerve, he's really doing pretty well! *


i was going to say the same thing. that is a great way to look at things. and i agree with the fact for a 10 month old he is doing well being kept in the house, especially since he is a puppy. were always thinking of you jen.


----------



## Brave

He is calming down. Amen!!!!!!!!!! Just in time for bed. Lol. 


Ericka, I think of you often. So glad Chester had a fantastic birthday. 


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## dborgers

Brave said:


> He is calming down. Amen!!!!!!!!!! Just in time for bed. Lol.


He's a super good boy  I can see him running down the beach in not too long.


----------



## Sheldon's Mom

Jen
Thinking of you and Bear. Hugs and prayers to you both !
Things will get better .
Tomorrow is a new day.
Barbara & Sheldon


----------



## Mirinde

How "down" is he supposed to be? I just recently learned that some rudimentary indoor nosework and hide-n-go-seek really seem to help take an edge off Iorek. So does smelling stuff outside. We also just discovered that shredding up large cardboard boxes is a major stress reduction for him... he is WIPED after working through one side of a large box. I can work on thinking of some more ideas but I wasn't quite sure how stationary he was supposed to be. Those four things just involve some light walking/standing but if he literally needs to be laying down as much as possible, I can think of some other things!


----------



## Brave

Doctors orders were no activity. None. I have been lenient with walking around the house and walking around the yard (mere minutes). Will shredding a box teach him to be destructive? I would hate for him to start shredding other things. Lol. 


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## Mirinde

So far the shredding hasn't translated for us  We give clear permission for it and engage a little while he does it so I think he knows it's different. He really enjoys it. Our daycare does the same thing with phone books. Might be something to try and see if he'll lay down and tear things up? I think the biting and ripping really releases some energy.


----------



## Brave

Well, an impromptu ear cleaning turned into a bath. Bear didn't want to get his ears flushed, but once I started he got all happy. I went to rise the tub off and bear came back in the tub and shoved me aside to get under the water. The little, cute punk. Turns out he NEEDED a bath. He was dirty!!! He now loves rubbing his face on a towel. He reminds me of Tiny!!!! When she rubs her muzzle on the sofa. 

Thanks for talking me down!!!! I feel so much better. Bear and I are better for knowing you all. 


Ahhhhh. He just fell asleep. Amen!!! 




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----------



## HolDaisy

Thinking of you and Bear. It must be very difficult for you to keep him with no activity, you're doing a great job though and Bear is being such a good boy!


----------



## Brave

He is an angel this morning. I had a lot to do and little time and he was great!!! In fact, the cats were more of a hassle than Bear. We're nearing the end of week 2 without ANY crate time! He sleeps on the floor at the foot of my bed at night and sleeps in the living room during the day. 

I am a little nervous about tomorrow. This is our first 4th of July in the house. And Bear's first one ever. We will be away with friends and cannot take Bear with us. Should I crate him tomorrow night? Just to be safe? My BFF's dog jumped through a window (glass and all) because she wanted out (it wasn't on the 4th. She is just very very stubborn and willful). I worry that even closed up in the house with all the doors and windows locked he might freak out or get anxious and hurt himself or something. 

What do you do with the pup during fireworks?


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----------



## Mirinde

Honestly, I wouldn't leave a dog for their first Fourth of July... because I did. And it did not turn out well. I think that's when our separation anxiety really started to ramp up and he is now terrified of fireworks. The whole week of the 4th is miserable for us. I'm sure plenty of dogs never care, but it definitely was not a good idea for us and I'm not sure how to know in advance if a dog will tolerate it well. Iorek had never been noise sensitive before. Although I guess this would all depend on how many fireworks there are in your area on the 4th? If it stays relatively quiet, it probably wouldn't be a big deal. Is there any way Bear can come and stay in his crate where you are going?


----------



## Brave

We're going to a friends house where there are four large dogs. Bear has grown up with them, so keeping him in the crate is torture for both him and us (he will totally whine). 


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## OutWest

Brave said:


> He is an angel this morning. I had a lot to do and little time and he was great!!! In fact, the cats were more of a hassle than Bear. We're nearing the end of week 2 without ANY crate time! He sleeps on the floor at the foot of my bed at night and sleeps in the living room during the day.
> 
> I am a little nervous about tomorrow. This is our first 4th of July in the house. And Bear's first one ever. We will be away with friends and cannot take Bear with us. Should I crate him tomorrow night? Just to be safe? My BFF's dog jumped through a window (glass and all) because she wanted out (it wasn't on the 4th. She is just very very stubborn and willful). I worry that even closed up in the house with all the doors and windows locked he might freak out or get anxious and hurt himself or something.
> 
> What do you do with the pup during fireworks?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


If you can't take him with you, I'd definitely crate him. And give him something to calm him before you leave, and put on some music to help mute the sounds of the fireworks.


----------



## Brave

OutWest said:


> If you can't take him with you, I'd definitely crate him. And give him something to calm him before you leave, and put on some music to help mute the sounds of the fireworks.


I was thinking of popping a Disney movie in for him. They have fast play and will auto-replay endlessly. 

Maybe the little mermaid.  


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----------



## Buddy's mom forever

We are all counting days with you and Bear. Sending good vibes and prayers for good time next couple weeks.


----------



## xoerika620xo

I think playing a movie is a great idea. i would definitely crate him too.


----------



## Brave

xoerika620xo said:


> I think playing a movie is a great idea. i would definitely crate him too.


The little mermaid is my favorite movie. Lol!! I'll sing him the songs tonight so he thinks of me when he watches it. 


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## Karen519

*Bear*

I hate to be a downer, but I wouldn't leave a dog alone on the fourth of July, especially when you don't know how he will react.


----------



## Brave

Bear did great. We left him home from 5 pm - 9 pm. We got home just as the fireworks started. 

This morning though, he had to think a out eating breakfast. Normally he is all food. All the time. But not this morning. 

He did finally eat. And he doesn't appear lethargic. I hope he gets over this turning his nose up at food thing.


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----------



## Bentleysmom

Bear might be going through what Bentley did a couple of months ago. He has been a chow hound since he was 6 weeks old. He would eat every meal like he's never fed. 

A couple of months ago he started getting picky about his food. Then he stopped eating breakfast. Ky only eats one meal per day because that's how she prefers it. Bentley took himself down to one meal a day.

I'm glad Bear did good last night. Today I would gladly switch pups with you 

Occasionally he will ask for breakfast and I give it to him but for the most part he wants to eat only once. I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that they're not growing like they were and they don't require so much.


----------



## xoerika620xo

Bentleysmom said:


> Bear might be going through what Bentley did a couple of months ago. He has been a chow hound since he was 6 weeks old. He would eat every meal like he's never fed.
> 
> A couple of months ago he started getting picky about his food. Then he stopped eating breakfast. Ky only eats one meal per day because that's how she prefers it. Bentley took himself down to one meal a day.
> 
> I'm glad Bear did good last night. Today I would gladly switch pups with you
> 
> Occasionally he will ask for breakfast and I give it to him but for the most part he wants to eat only once. I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that they're not growing like they were and they don't require so much.


Chester is totally different. He is a huge chow hound there is no leaving a piece of food anywhere. I don't think we'll ever get away from that. 66lbs and when I asked the vet is that a good weight for him she said he's in great shape so I guess we're ok lol.



Jen I hope bear is feeling much better today.


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## Brave

Well dinner is a "I don't want it" 

His teeth are fine (my first concern). I think he's in pain, so he's getting doe meds tonight and well reevaluate in the morning. He s grazing right now. A few kibble here. A few there. 


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## OutWest

Brave said:


> Well dinner is a "I don't want it"
> 
> His teeth are fine (my first concern). I think he's in pain, so he's getting doe meds tonight and well reevaluate in the morning. He s grazing right now. A few kibble here. A few there.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Sorry about that. I hope his appetite is better soon. You may need to resort to total servitude to his whims to get him through the next few weeks.. . Sort of what Hotel4Dogs is doing for Tiny.... Come on Bear, eat already!


----------



## Brave

So far his appetite is getting the better of him, but I have rice and meat on hand in case I need to bribe him to eat. He ate his pills and hotdogs well. He ate a cookie covered in PB. Maybe he just doesn't like the pro plan any more. 


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## OutWest

Brave said:


> So far his appetite is getting the better of him, but I have rice and meat on hand in case I need to bribe him to eat. He ate his pills and hotdogs well. He ate a cookie covered in PB. Maybe he just doesn't like the pro plan any more.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Or maybe he's figured out that you are worried and concerned and is playing you for everything it's worth! LOL


----------



## Brave

OutWest said:


> Or maybe he's figured out that you are worried and concerned and is playing you for everything it's worth! LOL


I wonder if Tiny texted him. Lol!!!!! Says I've been following her mom, so I am a sucker for a hunger strike. 


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## xoerika620xo

OutWest said:


> Or maybe he's figured out that you are worried and concerned and is playing you for everything it's worth! LOL


Haha I suppose outwest got it right on the money =) how is bear now?


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## Brave

xoerika620xo said:


> Haha I suppose outwest got it right on the money =) how is bear now?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


He ate. But I don't think his tramadol has kicked in yet. He is careful not to lay on the floor. Always a cushion of some sort. My poor Bear. 


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## Karen519

*Bear*

Did you talk to the vet about his loss of appetite!
Praying Bear starts eating better.


----------



## Brave

Karen519 said:


> Did you talk to the vet about his loss of appetite!
> Praying Bear starts eating better.


I hadn't gotten a chance to because it started yesterday, out of the blue and he did eventually eat his kibble. He is doing loads better today. DH says he gobbled up breakfast. Yay!!!!! I think he wasn't feeling tip top yesterday. A night on tramadol seems to have helped immensely. 


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## OutWest

If his appetite continues to be iffy, perhaps vet would give him a B12 shot--seems to work for other dogs, such as Tiny.


----------



## Brave

Well. Today is off to a bad start. We had a termite inspection, and I totally forgot about until the guy knocks on our door. Bear was so exited to see a new face that he got some good jumps in before I was able to crate him. Now he is limping badly. Moping around the house. I just want this to be all over with and make bear better. I am giving some more tramadol to help with the pain. Only like 5 more weeks. 


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## Brave

Bear is doing much better this evening. We sat down and rubbed out his legs for about an hour, with extra rest, some pain killers and lots of love he is doing better. Yay!!!!


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## SandyK

Sorry Bear had a setback with the termite inspector. Glad he is better. 5 weeks can't get here soon enough...right?!


----------



## murphy1

The meds might be altering his appetite or upsetting his stomach.


----------



## Gold-fever

*Something not right with Charlie please help.*

Charlie just turned 5 months old a few days ago. He lately has not been like getting up he seems like he is not walking normal. He still plays and runs no problem. He has been crying a lot however not sure if its because he is loosing his teeth like crazy right now and is in pain because of that. I have rubbed all his legs and no whimpering or whining while I do that he seems to like it actually. I checked his paws and found nothing. Could it be growing pains? Right now I'm feeding him half eukanuba large breed puppy and half wellness puppy protein focused. Is he getting too much protein. If it keeps up I plan to defenetely take him to the vet just looking for suggestions on what it could be. He doesn't really struggle getting up just seems like he prefers to sit. Thanks!


----------



## Gold-fever

*.*

I hope all is well


----------



## Brave

Gold-fever said:


> Charlie just turned 5 months old a few days ago. He lately has not been like getting up he seems like he is not walking normal. He still plays and runs no problem. He has been crying a lot however not sure if its because he is loosing his teeth like crazy right now and is in pain because of that. I have rubbed all his legs and no whimpering or whining while I do that he seems to like it actually. I checked his paws and found nothing. Could it be growing pains? Right now I'm feeding him half eukanuba large breed puppy and half wellness puppy protein focused. Is he getting too much protein. If it keeps up I plan to defenetely take him to the vet just looking for suggestions on what it could be. He doesn't really struggle getting up just seems like he prefers to sit. Thanks!


Teething is major around 5 months old. Try giving him an old sock stuffed with ice cubes to gnaw on. Or a chill bone (you can get it from a pet store, I believe). 

Is he limping? Is his gait "off"? It might be something he grows out of - but if it keeps up, I would consider taking him to the vet. 


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## Brave

Final fail, hopefully.


----------



## Brave

More fail.


----------



## Brave

Well. With so much fail for one evening - I am sure all of our fans can figure out how our evening is going.


You guessed it!!! Down the drain. Blah!!


Bear is still limping. Having a horrible time getting up. The tramadol is helping, but massage and ice/heat is a joke for as little as it seems to help. Though Bear is a glutton for petting. 

It was a battle of epic proportions to get his pills in him. I think someone is telling him what were up to!

He would take it, roll it around his mouth then spit it out. DH was so frustrated. As would I be if I was giving them. I ended up tricking him with pill-free cheese followed with rapid fire pill-stuffed hot dog then another piece of pill-free cheese. I also bribed him to take the remaining pills by holding a dog biscuit covered in PB in one hand and giving pills in the other. Since he was a good sport he got two pieces of watermelon to round out the bribery. 

I hate these days. I much prefer good days. Soon, my love, soon you will be all better. I promise. I think we're down to 39 days!!!!


----------



## Bentleysmom

Are you ok Jen??


----------



## Brave

Bentleysmom said:


> Are you ok Jen??


It was a big, steaming pile of posting fail. You should have seen it! My phone was all, " oh no you aren't posting this in the right thread! Ima stick it here."

I updated my last post with an update. Hopefully it worked. 


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## Bentleysmom

LOL I've had days like that. Yes, it updated the post


----------



## OutWest

Brave said:


> Well. With so much fail for one evening - I am sure all of our fans can figure out how our evening is going.
> 
> 
> You guessed it!!! Down the drain. Blah!!
> 
> 
> Bear is still limping. Having a horrible time getting up. The tramadol is helping, but massage and ice/heat is a joke for as little as it seems to help. Though Bear is a glutton for petting.
> 
> It was a battle of epic proportions to get his pills in him. I think someone is telling him what were up to!
> 
> He would take it, roll it around his mouth then spit it out. DH was so frustrated. As would I be if I was giving them. I ended up tricking him with pill-free cheese followed with rapid fire pill-stuffed hot dog then another piece of pill-free cheese. I also bribed him to take the remaining pills by holding a dog biscuit covered in PB in one hand and giving pills in the other. Since he was a good sport he got two pieces of watermelon to round out the bribery.
> 
> I hate these days. I much prefer good days. Soon, my love, soon you will be all better. I promise. I think we're down to 39 days!!!!


Luckily I haven't had to force too many pills down a the throat of a dog that was resisting, but the one thing that does always work is to coat it with PB, manually open dogs mouth, put pill far back on the tongue, then close the mouth and hold it shut while gently stroking the throat. You may already know about this trick but thought I'd share. Hope Bear doesn't start getting picky about the pills...it's only 39 days but they could be 39 LONG days if there's a struggle about the meds! And I'm sure he will have some to take for a few weeks after surgery...


----------



## Karen519

*Jenn*

Jenn

Praying for Bear everyday. Since it's only 39 days away I think the vet would consider moving up the surgery.


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## Brave

This morning sucks major!!! Bear woke me up at 3 am. He wasn't feeling good and wanted to cuddle. So I hauled him up into bed and we cuddled for almost an hour. When I got up at 6 am, his stomach was making loud noises. The kind mine makes when I am either hungry or nauseous.

I called the vet and he wants us to do a recheck on Wednesday. He says to stop the tramadol because it is what is most likely putting him off food. He is concerned that his other knee went. 

The good news is that while I sacrificed DH's "don't touch my watermelon", I convinced Bear to eat with some tasty watermelon. I think it settled his stomach enough to eat his kibble. Yay!!!! He has perked up about 500x more than this morning. He wants to play again and isn't making those stomach noises. Amen!!!!

And he is finally drinking water!!! (Normally he drinks water first thing in the morning before AND after his pee break)


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## Karen519

*Brave*

So glad Bear is going to vet Wednesday. Hoping the Vet will see fit to do the surgery earlier. Maybe the tramadol is upsetting his stomach.
Is there anything else vet can give Bear for pain?


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## Brave

Nope. No pain meds until at least Wednesday. He says as hard as it is to see them in pain, it's best if we figure out what is putting him off food. He highly thinks it is the Tramadol. We can still give the supplements. The fish oil should help with the inflammation an hopefully by proxy the pain. 


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## Tayla's Mom

Poor him and you. I hope things get better for you both real soon.


----------



## Brave

Thinking about Bear at working. Wishing I was cuddling with him right now. Just wanted to say a big THANK YOU to all y'all from the bottom of our hearts. 


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## dborgers

And a big "thank you for sharing Bear with us" back atcha!


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## Brave

Bear was lively when I got home. He cuddled right up to me as soon as I walked in the door. His stomach is still making those awful noises. I gave him instant rice and banana to see if it'll help settle his stomach. I am going to try the bland diet for a few days and see if the noises go away. Or maybe move him back to 3-4 meals a day in case his stomach is getting upset from being empty too long. He didn't want to eat, but if I held the bowl, he ate a little bit and then it's almost like he realize how delicious it was and gobbled the rest up. No stomach ramblings since he ate. 

His poops are of normal consistency, color, firmness and frequency. He doesn't seem to be phased by the tummy rumblings, and doesn't seem to need to GO when it happens. He isn't exhibiting any symptoms of bloat. THANK GOD! 

Anyways, I hope tonight is uneventful. 

Here are some pictures of us chilling on the couch this evening watching Psych. I <3 my cuddle bug.


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## OutWest

He's such a pretty boy. Sigh. Wish he were having a more normal childhood!


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## Karen519

*Bear*

Praying you guys had a good night and have a great day today.


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## swishywagga

Just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you and Bear, hope you have a good day!


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## Brave

We had a good night. Yay!!!! No tummy noises this morning. I made rice with chicken stock (no onion. DH ran to the store last night for a puppy run. Lol!!! We stocked up on irresistible bear foods.) and mashed a banana in it. Bear actually got cranky when I stuck it in the fridge to power cool it down. He gobbled it all up!!! No hesitation. Yay!!!!


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## Karen519

*Bear*

So happy to hear Bear had a good night and very glad for you, too!

Jenn: Never use onion or anything with onion for a dog. I read that they can hemorrhage from onion.


our pets. Onions, in particular, can be deadly toxic to both cats and dogs.



People Foods That Can Be Poisonous to Dogs - Dogs - About.com






dogs.about.com › Home › Dogs › Health & Wellness › Nutrition‎





by Jenna Stregowski - in 226 Google+ circlesThere are many types of people foods that can poison your dog. ... It is not clear what quantity of onions is poisonous, but the effects can be cumulative.



01 Onions Can be Deadly to Dogs - Veterinary Partner



www.veterinarypartner.com › Home › Cats‎



Jan 26, 2003 - Onions Can be Deadly to Dogs. A friend of mine likes to say that when you think about all the ways kids can get into trouble, it's amazing that so ...


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## Brave

Thanks for the reminder, Karen. We ran to the store specifically to pick up stock without onion. All the broth at home had onion juice or onion powder in it. Darn it. Lol. 

I wanted to make breakfast extra appetizing. 


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## xoerika620xo

Jen I'm glad things are getting better i wonder what those noises mean. Hopefully your appointment tomorrow will have some good news of pushing bears surgery up. 


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## Brave

I think his tummy was just upset. Maybe extra gassy. I put my hand on his tummy and felt the noises rumbling around. He would also occasionally fart small little toots. He seems better today, stomach wise, so I hope it was nothing. Keeping me on my toes!!! Though, I now have an idea of making watermelon Popsicles for Bear. 


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## dborgers

Did you guys play "pull my toe"?


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## Brave

dborgers said:


> Did you guys play "pull my toe"?


Nope. But Bear did try to play, "Lets fart in mom's face!!!" He would turn around and shove his butt in my face and fart before I could move or move him. That was an extension of his "cuddle my bum" from this morning in bed. 


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## dborgers

When Andy would cut one I'd loudly tell him "ATTA BOY ANDY!!". 

His tail would get going crazy and he fanned them away


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## Brave

Well, I am banging my head against the kitchen counter. DH says all afternoon he was not putting ANY weight on his left leg, but when I got home, he was obviously favoring his left leg, but was still using it. He pooped for me, and it looked great!! But he refuses to eat. Not even instant rice cooked in chicken stock and banana!!!! I was able to get 1/4 cup of watermelon in him. 12.5 hours until we see the vet. I might try giving him his pills in hotdogs. Maybe sacrifice a few hot dogs if he will take them. 

My poor baby. 


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## DanaRuns

Poor baby. I wish you could tell him to hang in there and the doctor will make it all better.


----------



## Brave

Thanks. I know this seems silly. But I am on the verge of tears. Just eat!!! Please. Baby just eat!!!!


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## Brave

Managed to get 1/4 of a med. banana in him. Nothing else. He doesn't seem lethargic.  just seems like himself. 


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## Bentleysmom

It's not silly Jen, when Ky wouldn't eat I was beside myself. I hope the Dr has some ideas tomorrow.


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## Claudia M

the fact that he is not lethargic is good news. One day you will look back and it will all seem like a nightmare or a sad movie you once watched. I will keep my fingers crossed for you tomorrow and hope the vet has some good news for all of you!


----------



## Brave

You know when parents say, "you gave me gray hair." Yep. I swear my hair is darn near white!!!


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## Brave

Yes!!!! Yes!!!! Yes!!!!!!

He is totally eating the rice!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Bentleysmom




----------



## Karen519

*Bear*

So glad he is eating the rice!


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## Brave

I demand a re-do for the morning. Better yet. I am going to go back to bed, to he11 with being an adult. There is only so much I can take before the sun comes up. 

Lets start with walking through the house to let the dog outside, just to find that he pissed all over the dining room. It was still HOT!!!!!! Nothing changed in our routine. I pottied him before bed at 10 pm. Idk what happened. So since I stepped in it barefoot, I ended up traipsing urine smells all over the house trying to get everything together to clean it up with. Then as I am sopping it up with paper towels, I notice that the urine has snaked into a river and gushed from one side of the house to another. Oh joy!!! 

I remove all the chairs. I remove his food bin. I think the crate stopped it, because one side of his blanket is soaked, so I go to remove the crate. First I take off the blanket and as a result fling urine on my face!!!!! Turns out the blanket didn't stop it and the other side is soaked too. Hurray!!!! 

I threw everything outside (including the crate) and start cleaning up. It's 5:30 now and i know I have to mop the house with vinegar. So I grab the vacuum to get any random debris up. As I turn the vacuum into the bedroom, it comes face to face with a huge pile of vomited rice and watermelon. Ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So now everything is cleaned up. I haven't touched the crate yet. I haven't started dinner yet or done any of my normal morning routines (besides showering) and I have 20 minutes to get everyone situated for us to leave. 

I am done being an adult now. I want to stick my head in the sand. I hope to everything that today turns around. 


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## dborgers

Sounds like Brave needs to go to the vet.


----------



## Davidrob2

Poor Bear and poor you. I hope you both feel better.


----------



## Brave

No winning today. I went to pick up his bowl of half-eaten rice and it flipped out of my hands and splattered everywhere. We're already late to the vet. Ugh. I want a drink. Maybe a massage. Definitely done with today. 


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## Brave

Back from the vet - sans Bear. Not good news.  

Bear has torn the other knee. (Honestly - why is he even on bed rest at this point if it didn't save his other knee). Dr. Wants to do a double TPLO all at once. Still wants to wait until 8/15. I am waiting for a revised estimate. 

The dr. Is concerned about him not eating and throwing up. The dr didn't feel an obstruction of any kind (belly is soft, not tender, no hard bits of bowel) but he wants to be safe (and I don't want to be sorry) so I left him at the vet for abdominal x-rays and a full blood work-up. The dr. Will give him an anti-nausea medicine and send me home with 5 days worth of it. We are to stop all supplements in the mean time (even though we stopped supplements 2 days ago) but it is OK to give him a Pepcid AC. If he doesn't perk up in a week, he wants me to buy this expensive J/D diet, but I want to stick with chicken and rice or hamburger and rice. Today's visit hit me hard for $538. I can only hope the double TPLO doesn't double in price as well. Now I am home waiting to get word to pick him up. Time to finish cleaning up this mornings catastrophes. 


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## Tayla's Mom

Jen, you just can't catch a break. I know that feeling well, but it certainly hurts on many levels. Keep us posted. At least we can offer moral support. I am sorry about not only the other knee but the tummy issues. I wonder if the pain meds caused an ulcer. If that's the case tummy meds will help. Keep your chin up. You are bound to catch some good luck sometime.


----------



## OutWest

Oh, Jen I'm so sorry. Poor Bear. And all the stress on you. 

Please know that things WILL improve and days like today are few and far between. 

Sending hugs.


----------



## OutWest

Why does doctor still want to wait till 8/15? Does he understand how hard this has been on you?


----------



## Bentleysmom

I'm so sorry Jen, what a day you've had! I don't understand the vets logic either. And how will you manage Bear if he has both done at once?

I wish I lived closer to you, I would clean your house and take care of Bear for a few days to give you the much needed break you deserve.
Since I can't do that, I'll just send {{{Hugs}}}


----------



## swishywagga

I am really sorry to hear this about Bear, sending comforting hugs across the pond to you both.


----------



## goldensrbest

O h boy ,jen, so sorry, I wish you would get a break, I know how stuff just seems to pile up ,on a person.


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## Brave

We are back from the vets. $4100 to do both knees at once. He wants to wait because a) he doesn't want to do the surgery when Bear is ill. B) he weighed the pros and cons of doing it sooner vs. waiting and the knees have not progressed to a point where doing them now makes sense. They said with a double TPLO, Bear must be crated 24/7 except for bathroom breaks for the first two weeks. We bumped the surgery from 8/15 to 8/14 since he will know need to spend 2.5 days at the vets. His birthday is 8/13 so we party that night then fast him in the morning. We pick him up that Friday. They said I can visit him in the hospital, but to call first so then can ensure he is awake. 

Bear was mostly an angel at the vets. Sits. Stays. 

I am still a bit of an emotional wreck just feels like today has been one beating after another. 

Thank you for your love and support. It really means a lot to me. Now, I have to get my big girl pants on and go to work, even though all I want to do is fade away from reality for today. Life goes on. And all I can do is remind myself that I am strong. That I can and will handle this. That I am not alone. And that tomorrow is a new day. 


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## Nally

Hi Jen,
Hang in there! My puppy tore her knee about a year ago. It was hard work to help her recover but she did and she's had no problems since! I hope that Bear's surgery goes well next month and then it'll be all over! Just one more month.


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## dborgers

Something soothing  Ahhhhhhhhhhhh


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## Brave

I can see it now.....









A soft. Salty breeze

Bear running in the surf

And a margarita just the right size

I will take a ticket for 2 (me and bear) and we will stay for the year. 


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----------



## goldensrbest

Make it for three,i will join you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Brave

goldensrbest said:


> Make it for three,i will join you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Darn straight. And only happy things can happen and we can only be positive.  no worries. Amen! Lets do this!! 


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## xoerika620xo

Jen I am so sorry about everything. I wish I lived closed to you too so we could help out. I don't understand how bear could have torn the other I think your doing a amazing job keeping him occupy. Chester hasn't been out for almost a day and a half minus potty breaks and today i could tell he needed it. Bouncing from room to room getting into things he never gets into so I had to take him for a hour walk. He is now fast asleep. I wish you guys all the best and hopefully you will get some good news soon. Hugs and kisses to bear.


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## OutWest

Hey Jen, sending many hugs your way. Hope you'll update the Facebook page right away. This probably all seems insurmountable, but you will all come through it with flying colors. Hope DH is helping and holding your hand a lot.


----------



## Brave

You read my mind. I posted an update a few minutes ago. 


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## Mirinde

I've been thinking about Bear's news all day 

And on one hand, this totally blows. Seriously. Mama deserves a break and Bear deserves to be a puppy and aarrrgghhh!

On the other hand... if the other knee was so unstable that it managed to blow during confined rest, it certainly would have blown as soon as Bear got cleared for normal activity again. At least this way, you can just get it all done in one swoop instead of finally getting life back to normal just for the other knee to go. You save on surgery costs by being able to bundle it and Bear doesn't have to go through the danger of being put under multiple times in one year. And once they're done, they're both done. It would have been wonderful if his other knee was fine, but it clearly wasn't so... better now than later, I suppose? Trying to find the bright side for you...

So sorry you are going through this


----------



## CAROLINA MOM

So sorry to hear about Bear's other knee and his tummy problems.

Hang in there, he'll be having his surgery before you know it, and on his way to being able to enjoy life like a normal young boy. 


Fill your bathtub up with bubbles, light some candles, get a beverage of your choice, and sit back and relax. After the day you've had, you deserve it.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and Bear.


----------



## Brave

Thanks you guys. My gf is kidnapping me tonight and she will send me home god awfully late (probably drunk) but relaxed (hopefully). Well have an evening of whining and venting an laughing and maybe some crying. Lots of laughing. 


And I have also been thinking about the hidden blessings. We save $1600 by doing both knees at once. It's only a few hundred over the first quote we got, so it's kinda two for one. Lol!!!!!!

I am just ready to put this chapter behind us. 2013 has not been kind to my family and I want to kick her into my past and move on to bigger and better things. 


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## dborgers

> 2013 has not been kind to my family and I want to kick her into my past and move on to bigger and better things.


Absolutely!!


----------



## Brave

I hope hope hope he is 100% by first snowfall. He hasn't experienced it yet and I would love to watch him run in the snow and be a beautiful boy. 


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## Mirinde

$1600 is no small sum of savings! It would have just been heartbreaking for you all to be getting back to normal, active life just for the other knee to go and be right back here. Now you can have the peace of mind of knowing the other knee isn't in the waiting and you can fully move on from this horrible year!


----------



## dborgers

Brave said:


> I hope hope hope he is 100% by first snowfall. He hasn't experienced it yet and I would love to watch him run in the snow and be a beautiful boy.


He'll absolutely be 100% by the first snowfall.

Katie had ACL surgery and is 100% a couple years later. The recovery time is several weeks, not several months. Rehab, stretching exercises, short walks, then stuff like a few stairs, etc etc. It'll be over by the time you know it


----------



## dborgers

PS - Brave is already a beautiful boy  In no time he'll be running like a young boy should.


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## Brave

I am a little uneasy with doing the two at once because I worry initial recovery will suck!! And he will be completely dependent on me and idk if I can handle it. Or how I will handle it. I can only pray for strength to get through all that has hit us. Idk how Bear will deal with 14 days of crate rest. Yikes!!!!!!!! Nose work and metal games rock. And he will come out for passive range of motion exercises and vet follow-ups. I am going to move his crate and line it with a rubber mat (with circle holes his toes can grip) and I will sleep next to him every night. Should I put a water bottle hanging from the inside? Like a hamster???


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## dborgers

He's going to be putting weight on both knees very quickly. In fact, he's supposed to according to the post op instructions. You might get a big beach towel you can use like a sling under his belly. Within a couple days he'll be putting weight on his knees. As long as you've had to wait to have the surgery done the recuperation will seem like it flies by. And you'll know when it's done he'll be 100% for the rest of his life


----------



## OutWest

Probably a good idea --the water bottle.i think you start a thread asking how to care for a dog n total bed rest. We've had a number of GRF dogs go through total hip replacements and heart worm treatments--both require total rest. I bet they could help you a lot. those people may or may not be following this thread.


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## Mirinde

Brave said:


> I am a little uneasy with doing the two at once because I worry initial recovery will suck!! And he will be completely dependent on me and idk if I can handle it. Or how I will handle it. I can only pray for strength to get through all that has hit us. Idk how Bear will deal with 14 days of crate rest. Yikes!!!!!!!! Nose work and metal games rock. And he will come out for passive range of motion exercises and vet follow-ups. I am going to move his crate and line it with a rubber mat (with circle holes his toes can grip) and I will sleep next to him every night. Should I put a water bottle hanging from the inside? Like a hamster???
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Don't forget you have another adult in your house! Bear will be dependent on both of you... no need to put any more worries on your shoulders than you absolutely have to, lean on that help! I'm sure this is one of those situations where the anticipation will be worse than actually muddling through it, but make sure you don't try to do it all on your own when you actually are muddling through it! We're here and you have a great partner


----------



## Brave

I know it just seems DH gets light duty. He works early hours so I get to do last minute potty breaks and early morning potty breaks. I am planning on having DH build a ramp for our back step. And a gate for the side yard. We're going to remove all the gravel and layer stepping stones for even walking and get a small section of artificial grass for him to wee wee on. We better get cracking!!


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## Brave

He ate!!! Ooooo yea!!!! DH fed him 1/2 cup of bland rice at 2 pm and we gave 1 cup of chicken rice at 630. So far so good!!!! Oh and he is getting the Pepcid AC. 


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## Pixie

I am pretty sure you will handle his recovering with flying colours  The think of the situation scares you more than Bear (he is a strong brave boy!). Look at what you have accomplish so far and how well you have been taking care of your boy! You a a super mom and you ROCK Jenn!

I am not saying that every day will be easy, but we will be here for those


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## Karen519

*Jen*



Brave said:


> I know it just seems DH gets light duty. He works early hours so I get to do last minute potty breaks and early morning potty breaks. I am planning on having DH build a ramp for our back step. And a gate for the side yard. We're going to remove all the gravel and layer stepping stones for even walking and get a small section of artificial grass for him to wee wee on. We better get cracking!!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Sounds like ramp could help, but our Smooch who was 10 at time of her TPLO on right hind leg, went down three steps of our patio, but I think you mentioned Bear's other leg hurts, too? We helped her down the stairs with a towel sling.


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## Brave

Karen519 said:


> Sounds like ramp could help, but our Smooch who was 10 at time of her TPLO on right hind leg, went down three steps of our patio, but I think you mentioned Bear's other leg hurts, too? We helped her down the stairs with a towel sling.


His right knee tore while he was on activity restriction. He is now getting a double TPLO. 


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## Brave

Well last night went great. Though we kinda went back to puppy housebreaking schedules.... Just to be safe. He ate rice in chicken stock last night and kept it down. My girlfriends came over and we went out last night. Bear did so well!!!! He was so well behaved. No trying to jump. Nice sits after a while. A lot of figure 8s lol!!!! 

This morning he took his Pepcid AC and anti-nausea pill in a hot dog without a problem. I mixed in some hot dog pieces for this mornings breakfast, since I don't have any chicken or hamburger on hand.  he gobbled it up!!!

Yay!!!!!

Today is going to be great!!!!


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## Brave

He is still eating!!!! Oh. Yea. Darn. Tooting!!!!!


His limp has gone away. He is perky. My life is perfect!!!!


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## Brave

Everything seems back to normal. Bear's appetite is roaring to go. DH forgot the anti-nausea med this morning but we haven't had any problem. We're busting out the ole pythagorium theorem to calculate how long of a board we need. I am using 6 horizontal feet to come down 5 vertical inches. I hope the incline will be mild enough. 

Bear is being very loving and amazing. All cuddles and kisses. Keeping quiet for the most part. Being the best 11 month old ever!!! (Ps it's his 11 month birthday!!!) 


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## Davidrob2

Happy birthday Bear! Glad his stomach issues are under control. Let's hope they stay that way so he can celebrate his 1 year birthday with a cake next month.


----------



## Brave

The ramp is done!!!!!! Ohhhhh yea!!!!




















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## Dallas Gold

That is a great ramp! I could actually use it myself with my bum knee! 

I'm sorry Bear and you have had these setbacks with the potty issues (medication related? UTI?) and the appetite. I have a feeling you will manage the post-surgical recovery better than you think you will. It will be hard during the thick of it, but it's temporary, and soon he will be running and it will be a distant memory. Keep the goal in mind (and start that thread for hints and tips!).


----------



## Brave

Well Bear is driving me batty today. And I just woke up. Ugh!!!!!! He decided to chase Casey this morning, which is a big no-no. I woke up to my cat racing across my head (with her claws out). Ouch!!! And Bear jumping up and down and doing his best spinning dolphin impression (I blame the documentary we watched last night). I let him out to potty and he was all sorts of aggravating. I crated him because as soon as we got inside, he wanted to run around the house. Can't have that. Now he's in his crate whining (for the past 15 minutes) and I doubt sleep is coming back for me today. DH is undisturbed. Lucky man!!! Though he worked his butt off on that ramp. All it is made out of us a thick board, covered with an outside rug and supported by bricks. There are stakes in the ground to prevent it from slipping around. I was worried because I thought, "well, of course it'll hold up a 70 lb dog..... But it'll snap when I put my full body weight on it." 

For the record - it didn't snap. It didn't bend. I am very very pleased. DH is a wizard when it comes to creating stuff. 




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## jacksilas

Woah, 

Been away - just caught up.
What a rollercoaster.
I imagine you could sleep for a week.
Here's hoping the next month passes quickly with minimal drama.
Thinking of you two. . . . 
Oh, and I wonder at what point in his post-op can he swim????
Maybe as soon as the incisions have healed???
I have dogs swimming on the brain as Jack just learned. . . .


----------



## Brave

Bear can start swimming between month 1 and 2 post op. I was going to get a pool and build a ramp but I worry, so were going to start with the underwater treadmill for a few weeks. 


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## Brave

So, all that battiness this morning paid off in a BIG BIG way. DH wanted to do a family photo to send to his relatives and wanted to include Bear. So after I got all gussied up, we went to this small gazebo in a small park with Bear for photos. It was a small walk (2 minutes) and Bear did so great. Like I wanted to jump up and down and tell strangers how great he did!!!

He pulled maybe twice on the leash. When we got to the park, someone was exercising and Bear wanted to meet him oh so badly but he responded to my commands. We settled into the gazebo and Bear just laid down and people watched while we got everything settled. Motorcycles went by. People walked by. Bicycles went by. Bear was a perfect gentleman. My little puppy is turning into this fabulous dog!!!!


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## OutWest

Brave said:


> So, all that battiness this morning paid off in a BIG BIG way. DH wanted to do a family photo to send to his relatives and wanted to include Bear. So after I got all gussied up, we went to this small gazebo in a small park with Bear for photos. It was a small walk (2 minutes) and Bear did so great. Like I wanted to jump up and down and tell strangers how great he did!!!
> 
> He pulled maybe twice on the leash. When we got to the park, someone was exercising and Bear wanted to meet him oh so badly but he responded to my commands. We settled into the gazebo and Bear just laid down and people watched while we got everything settled. Motorcycles went by. People walked by. Bicycles went by. Bear was a perfect gentleman. My little puppy is turning into this fabulous dog!!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I wanna see the pics!


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## Brave

OutWest said:


> I wanna see the pics!


DH is holding them hostage. I will post them as soon as I can.  I have a selfie from before the photo shoot if you dont mind just seeing my mug. 


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## OutWest

Sounds good...but tell DH the pics are required!


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## Brave

OutWest said:


> Sounds good...but tell DH the pics are required!


I got all done up. Took me 90 minutes for a 20 minute photo shoot. Hahaha 









We'll have better photos tomorrow. (he promises). 


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## OutWest

Very cute picture!


----------



## Karen519

*Jen*

Jen

Beautiful picture of you and can't wait to see the pics of Bear, too!
Your Hubby did good on the ramp.


----------



## goldy1

Brave said:


> The ramp is done!!!!!! Ohhhhh yea!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Nice ramp!


----------



## Brave

DH is still holding the pictures hostage. 

I keep giving him a funny stink eye. 

I took Bear to the store to get a comfort "choke chain" as back-up for the road trip. And he did great!!! We actually had a woman apologize TO US because her Boston terrier kept lunging at Bear (almost choking itself) and I had Bear in a down-stay. My 11 month old with no exercise!!! He was a perfect gentleman. We had so many people stop us to say how beautiful he is and big and well behaved. My ego is a little bit large right now. 

We stopped at a separate store to pick up bulk treats and a tick key. Bear walked like a gentleman. Kept a loose leash. Stayed near me. Oh the joys!!!

A woman in a wheelchair snuck up behind us when I was scooping up treats. I turned around and Bear was siting at her hand, sniffing the dog on her lap. My jumpy, crazy hyper puppy was very calmly sitting at this woman's hand being the best puppy I could ever ask for!!

Only a few more days until I see Dad. Yay!!!


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## Brave

Also, his tummy seems normal. But the vet wants us to keep him on the rice and hamburger for at least another week. Tomorrow we start feeding supplements again. 


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## Brave

Test driving the pickle pocket. 











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## dborgers

IMO, that boy earned his pickle pocket driver's license


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## Brave

dborgers said:


> IMO, that boy earned his pickle pocket driver's license


He earned it 10x over !!! I love my beautiful boy so much!!!!


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## love never dies

Send big hugs to beautiful boy


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## Brave

Bear was very stiff last night. I think it's because I was up so late. I better get to bed earlier, if that is the case. He is still a happy go lucky pup. He helped Hoover the floors while I was making dinner. He is so good at leave it. He was laying out of the kitchen and I dropped so much stuff.... Carrot pieces, a whole golden potato, some bell pepper, corn, peas.... He just laid there waiting for me to say "ok". He even tried to eat the whole potato!!! He had to think about it first though. 

I just love him so much! I joked last night with him. My feet were killing me after standing on unpadded laminate for over an hour. When I sat down, he came up on the couch, I put my feet by him and said... Wanna rub them?? Then I wiggled my toes. He just looked and me the gave me a sloppy kiss. Guess a massage is out for now. 

Someday though, someday. 


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## Tennyson

Brave said:


> DH is still holding the pictures hostage.
> 
> I keep giving him a funny stink eye.
> 
> I took Bear to the store to get a comfort "choke chain" as back-up for the road trip. And he did great!!! We actually had a woman apologize TO US because her Boston terrier kept lunging at Bear (almost choking itself) and I had Bear in a down-stay. My 11 month old with no exercise!!! He was a perfect gentleman. We had so many people stop us to say how beautiful he is and big and well behaved. My ego is a little bit large right now.
> 
> We stopped at a separate store to pick up bulk treats and a tick key. Bear walked like a gentleman. Kept a loose leash. Stayed near me. Oh the joys!!!
> 
> A woman in a wheelchair snuck up behind us when I was scooping up treats. I turned around and Bear was siting at her hand, sniffing the dog on her lap. My jumpy, crazy hyper puppy was very calmly sitting at this woman's hand being the best puppy I could ever ask for!!
> 
> Only a few more days until I see Dad. Yay!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


You know what I think? I think Bear knows you're under a great deal of stress and just wanted to help you feel better by being the perfect dog on this outing (don't expect it all the time.) 
It's one of the tools he has and he happily used it.
Inside and out he's beautiful.


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## Brave

I managed to squeeze ONE photo out from him!! 

Behold!!! Bear!!! 

He's so cute!!!


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## dborgers

Brave said:


> I managed to squeeze ONE photo out from him!!
> 
> Behold!!! Bear!!!
> 
> He's so cute!!!
> 
> View attachment 226290


He sure is!!


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## Pixie

He is  He has such a personality on this picture!

Love your big smile behind him! It shows how much you love your bear boy


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## Brave

Bear is all a-twitter with excitement. He knows an adventure is around the corner. He even tried to go to work with me this morning. Lol!!!


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## goldensrbest

Such a pretty boy.


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## goldensrbest

I just saw your picture, very nice, is your dad going to get one?


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## Brave

goldensrbest said:


> I just saw your picture, very nice, is your dad going to get one?


We haven't printed any, but I do plan on sending him one electronically. 


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## Tayla's Mom

Great picture.


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## Karen519

*Jen*

Great picture of you and Bear-I know your Dad would love one!


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## OutWest

Jen, you may already be on the road, but if you can print a smallish picture of yourself and put it in a frame for your dad, I'm sure he would love it. I've found that people who aren't well really appreciate having small framed pictures of loved ones that can fit onto a bedside table. If you only send it electronically, he probably won't be able to print and frame it. JMO. Hope your trip is wonderful!


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## Karen519

*Jen*

Hope you have a wonderful trip.


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## Tayla's Mom

Enjoy your time with your Dad.


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## Brave

We're back safe and sound. The trip was not good. We left a day early because I couldn't take it anymore. Sometimes family sucks. I did take pictures and hope to post them soon. I just have to muster up the effort to go through them and post them. I feel defeated. Empty. Void. 

I don't want you guys to worry about me. I just don't want to think about family right now. I just want to forget the whole thing. 


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## Max's Dad

Sorry to hear the trip was disappointing. Take care of yourself.


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## goldensrbest

Oh , no , so sorry,jen.


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## OutWest

Brave said:


> We're back safe and sound. The trip was not good. We left a day early because I couldn't take it anymore. Sometimes family sucks. I did take pictures and hope to post them soon. I just have to muster up the effort to go through them and post them. I feel defeated. Empty. Void.
> 
> I don't want you guys to worry about me. I just don't want to think about family right now. I just want to forget the whole thing.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Oh I'm so sorry. Family really can be overwhelming sometimes. When you're ready, let us know how you and Bear are faring.


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## Brave

I think just admitting that I am hurt. That I am feeling a flood of emotions, that I don't feel capable of coping with, has helped me. I am trying to come up with a way to tell the story of Bear without compromising private information that would be best left off the Internet. I will find a way. I appreciate all of you guys and your support. Dynamics change and I think a lot of that caught me off guard. Life is complicated. As much as you don't want it to be. 


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## *Laura*

Brave said:


> I managed to squeeze ONE photo out from him!!
> 
> Behold!!! Bear!!!
> 
> He's so cute!!!
> 
> View attachment 226290


Yes....He is so cute


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## Karen519

*Bear*

Love the picture of you and Bear!


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## dborgers

You know you have buds around here, Jen. 

You know the saying "You can choose your friends but you can't choose your family?"

We just have to learn to accept people for who they are, and not who we wish they were.

Blessings


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## Brave

I think there is a big difference between accepting someone the way they are and allowing someone to walk all over you, and bully you.

I was berated for a bunch of things, I felt unwelcomed and excluded. Despite Bear's stellar behavior - I was berated for bringing him and keeping him in a pen or on leash. I was berated because all of the OTHER dogs took offense to his presence and attacked him or tried to attack him. I was berated when relatives antagonized him and he barked at them. To be honest - that hurts the worst. Bear did stellar until Sunday when one person after another harassed him - from popping open a chair in his face WHEN HE WAS LAYING DOWN NEXT TO ME, to charging him and flailing hands in his face - riling him up - then freakin out when he tried to mouth on the person (NOT BITE!!!) which I corrected immediately; to allowing the small dogs to harass and attack him when he wasn't doing anything to provoke it. 

I removed him for each and every situation by retreating to my tent with him (or walking away from the others) so we could both calm done and regroup. 

Sunday was the worse - I wanted a moment with my husband, so I put Bear in his pen - which he respects and will just lie down and sleep. (Mind you, he was in his pen most of Saturday without a problem when there was over 100 ppl there). I stepped away (50 feet but he was still in my sight) for 10 minutes and one relative started screaming at me about how irresponsible it was to leave a dog caged up and I am turning him into an aggressive, nuisance; why did I even have a dog if I wasn't going to let him run and be a dog. I asked what he was doing because I saw nothing, I heard nothing over them talking. Apparently he was "grumbling" and I am inclined to believe he was provoked because after that he was very agitated and nervous. So I told DH we're leaving and we left a day early. 

It's like nothing I did was correct or right in their eyes. And that is their burden to carry. I did everything in my power to be responsible and respectful, to look out for my family. When it became obvious that Bear and I would be continuously treated disrespectfully - we left for home. Bear doesn't need to be treated like that and neither do I. 

I am choosing to forgive them. But I will not forget. I choose to spend time with my immediate family and build those bonds - and I will be very careful over when I spend time with extended family. 

I just hope I didn't screw Bear up over this. 

I am going to start a new thread with pictures and HAPPY stories from our trip. Those are so much better to think about. 

Btw - Dad looked better than he did at Thanksgiving. They put him on some new meds that stimulate his appetite. He ate so much food!!! I am so proud of him!!!!! He was in a foul mood and didn't really want to spend time with anyone but i did see him, and hug him and tell him how much I love him. Which was the point of the 2,000 mile trip. 

Now to share happy memories. Look for the thread in the pictures section. 


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## Tayla's Mom

Jen you are a better person than I am that is for sure. I would have left much sooner. I'm sorry you encountered that, but if that is how your family is it is a miracle you are such a loving and caring person. I'm another one that has difficult family ties so I can relate on a certain level. Obviously, they did not understand what a great dog mom you are and how you are taking such good care of Bear so that one day he can run and play with others. Bless you Jen. We are always here for you.


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## lhowemt

Don't ever feel bad about protecting your boundaries, even from family. It is hard, but there is no reason to accept behavior from family that we wouldn't from friends. Often it makes it worse to explain, just take care of you and your immediate family and remove yourself like you did. No guilt! 


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## coppers-mom

I was catching up and reading how wonderful Bear was on your shopping tirp and how excited you were to be going to visit family adn then.....

I'm sorry there were so many stresses on the trip and hope you are doing better.

On a side note, Bear is a lovely boy and sounds like such a gentleman. Hugs to you both.


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## Brave

I thought about leaving sooner but seeing my dad was all that mattered. Seeing him and spending time with him. And not ALL of my relatives were like that. Only about 3/4 of them. I could have thrown a tantrum and I did meltdown in private with my husband and my brother. But I did that privately to let out the hurt so I could stand up and carry on. Holding hurt in makes me bitter - so I let it all out. I am a big cry baby. I cried everyday of the trip. My brother was so great though. He helped keep Bear and I occupied and I had a lot of fun wading down the creek and swinging in a hammock. Setting off fireworks. Early morning cuddles with Bear. Ahhhhh those are the memories. The good stuff. 


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## CAROLINA MOM

I'm so sorry the visit was so stressful for you. 

As you said, seeing your dad and being able to spend time with him was what was most important and what really mattered.

Never let anyone make you feel you are not worthy or less than what you are. Often I have found when people do that to others, they are the ones that are struggling with their own issues and strike out to others to make themselves feel better about themselves or try to make others as miserable as they are. 

Give yourself the credit you deserve, you are a very loving and caring person.


----------



## Brave

Thank you. My BFF and I have been working on understanding why we react certain ways to certain situations. If something bothers me, chances are I am conflicted over that scenario or situation within my own life. So I knew going in, that being lashed out at - chances are, I wasn't the problem. It doesn't hurt any less but it helps me cope and react with compassion. I appreciate everyone's kindness. 

I will need to take Bear camping with just DH and I sometime. I think we'll have A TON of fun.  

Ohhhh and pictures are up in the picture sub-forum. SQUEAL!!!


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## Our3dogs

Everyone I work with knows there is one thing they will never hear me say, "I am taking some vacation time to visit family". HA! I might be taking time off, but it's definitely not a vacation, even though I get along well with both my family and my husbands. One thing about large, extended family, events - there are always going to be the ones that have an opinion on how you are raising your children, or in our case, and yours - since our dogs are our kids, how we take care of our pets. Yes, it hurts, but you are not going to change their minds. Just know it is their problem and not yours, and sometimes family just sucks! Remember - at least you got to see your Dad.


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## OutWest

It was all about seeing your dad, and you did that. You did good. As said earlier, you don't get to choose your relatives. Now I'm going to lok at your pictures.


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## Brave

Idk if everyone whose watched someone fade from cancer experiences this - but everytime I see Dad, everytime we get bad news, I have emotional backlash for a few days afterwards. I am dealing with these emotional rollarcoaster rides and they hit me at really random times. At work. Late at night. As I fall asleep. Doing chores. You get my drift. Idk what I would do without DH and my animals. Bear will crawl into my lap, and let me hold him tightly and cry into his soft fur then lick my face dry. 

Well tonight he paid me back, tenfold, for all of his cooperation. He was a bratty, mouthy mutant and as aggravating as it was - I am so glad he is having a good day. I worry so much about him. I do my best to shelf it. I just cannot wait for surgery to come. Only 3 weeks until we can start our road to recovery. 

Psssst don't tell the cats - but I like Bear the best. I am totally playing favorites. Though the cats do let me hug them when I am sad. 

I really need to figure out how we're celebrating his birthday. *ponders*


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## Karen519

*Jen*



Brave said:


> I thought about leaving sooner but seeing my dad was all that mattered. Seeing him and spending time with him. And not ALL of my relatives were like that. Only about 3/4 of them. I could have thrown a tantrum and I did meltdown in private with my husband and my brother. But I did that privately to let out the hurt so I could stand up and carry on. Holding hurt in makes me bitter - so I let it all out. I am a big cry baby. I cried everyday of the trip. My brother was so great though. He helped keep Bear and I occupied and I had a lot of fun wading down the creek and swinging in a hammock. Setting off fireworks. Early morning cuddles with Bear. Ahhhhh those are the memories. The good stuff.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Jen:

You are SO MATURE. Spending time with your Father and telling him how much you love him is all that mattered. I am so glad that you have some good times with your brother and husband-hold on to those memories, and LEAVE the rest. We all have people in are families that are ignorant, hurtful and mean. Tell them we will confirm that you are a WONDERFUL DOG MOM!! Don't give them free rent in your head and get rid of any anger-it only hurts you. You are a wise person to cry-the best therapy ever!!


----------



## Brave

Who wants to come pet sit Bear? Cause I want to ship him off to never never land for like 3 hours. 

This morning, he decided I had slept in enough (it's only 7 am, mind you) so he pulled the covers off the bed, then he pulled the pillows off the bed.... Then he punched me in the face (caught a nail in my nose - swear to god I thought he ripped my nose off). I am done. I thought DH had rude ways to wake someone up. I kicked him out of the bedroom (thank god he listens when I say "get the frick out of my room!!!!!") but the damage was already done. I have welts all over my back, face, arms, legs.... Pretty much everywhere. 

So... Who wants to take him off my hands for a few hours? Momma needs to relax. 

Maybe I will take my own advice and give him chamomile tea and/or rub lavender oil on his paw pads. Something. Anything. 

At least he is having a good day and this too shall pass. I cannot wait until we can exercise him again. Lord, can you imagine how much food he'll eat once he's active?? 


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## Tayla's Mom

LOL Jen. He has been so good I often wished I could trade Tayla and him. He's just showing you how awful he could be so you really appreciate how wonderful he is.


----------



## Brave

Tayla's Mom said:


> LOL Jen. He has been so good I often wished I could trade Tayla and him. He's just showing you how awful he could be so you really appreciate how wonderful he is.


I know. I think I get stuck in the "but you can be so good!!! Why? Why? Why are you acting like this?!?!"

We only have 2.5 weeks until surgery. Then it is all downhill from there. I cannot wait to see him run and play like a puppy again. $10 once he is healed he will enter the teen phase and be an a$$. I still wouldn't trade him for anything. And of course, this too shall pass. I think my panties are in a twist this morning. Grumble grumble "where's the coffee??" Lol!!!!


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## xoerika620xo

Hi Jen! Sorry I am just now catching up on everything. I am sorry your trip to your dads didnt turn out how you wanted but the best thing was you went and saw your dad. I totally get where your coming from, family members are really hard to like sometimes....

sorry you had a rough morning , I get that with Chester too sometimes. When my boyfriend leaves to work I bring Chester to the room to sleep with me and 9 times out of 10 he is a great dog but others I have his butt in my face,he wants to play, or he's messing with something in the room. don't worry this shall all pass soon the surgery is coming and you guys would look back at it....I already do that with the DVDs lol 


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## goldensrbest

Brave said:


> Idk if everyone whose watched someone fade from cancer experiences this - but everytime I see Dad, everytime we get bad news, I have emotional backlash for a few days afterwards. I am dealing with these emotional rollarcoaster rides and they hit me at really random times. At work. Late at night. As I fall asleep. Doing chores. You get my drift. Idk what I would do without DH and my animals. Bear will crawl into my lap, and let me hold him tightly and cry into his soft fur then lick my face dry.
> 
> Well tonight he paid me back, tenfold, for all of his cooperation. He was a bratty, mouthy mutant and as aggravating as it was - I am so glad he is having a good day. I worry so much about him. I do my best to shelf it. I just cannot wait for surgery to come. Only 3 weeks until we can start our road to recovery.
> 
> Psssst don't tell the cats - but I like Bear the best. I am totally playing favorites. Though the cats do let me hug them when I am sad.
> 
> I really need to figure out how we're celebrating his birthday. *ponders*
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 I feel for you, and your dad, it is awful watching what cancer does,and awful how the person with cancer feels, I found it very tough to watch,did not handle it good,have regrets, but worse that mike had to go through it.


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## Brave

goldensrbest said:


> I feel for you, and your dad, it is awful watching what cancer does,and awful how the person with cancer feels, I found it very tough to watch,did not handle it good,have regrets, but worse that mike had to go through it.


Yea. Cancer sucks. Death sucks too. I've been talking to my friends whose parent passed from a terminal illness. And logically, I know I am being childish because I keep thinking about "me me me" how this affects me. How I feel. Etc. 

My friends keep telling me its about him. And I am honestly trying so hard to shelve my emotions but I just don't think I am mature enough to deal with this. I have only had him in my life for 10 years now, and he's always been a literal 1,000 miles away. I would see him 1-2 a year. And it just feels bad. I feel like we're getting short changed. It's not fair .... That's my biggest problem. I don't know how to get over the "it's not fair" freak out. 


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## OutWest

Brave said:


> Yea. Cancer sucks. Death sucks too. I've been talking to my friends whose parent passed from a terminal illness. And logically, I know I am being childish because I keep thinking about "me me me" how this affects me. How I feel. Etc.
> 
> My friends keep telling me its about him. And I am honestly trying so hard to shelve my emotions but I just don't think I am mature enough to deal with this. I have only had him in my life for 10 years now, and he's always been a literal 1,000 miles away. I would see him 1-2 a year. And it just feels bad. I feel like we're getting short changed. It's not fair .... That's my biggest problem. I don't know how to get over the "it's not fair" freak out.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Your friends are partially right...ultimately it is about _him_. But they're _your_ friends, so when you're with them, it's should be your time to talk about how it's affecting you. Feel free to tell them I said so.  You are in the beginning stages of grief. And you need to talk about it. Feel free to talk about it here. Or if you want to talk privately, I'm happy to chat on the phone. I'll PM you my phone number. 

Came back to add this link to a good article... You can send it to your friends...they're the ones you _should_ be talking to, which you're trying to do. And they should be listening. http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...le-what-say-someone-who-sick.html#post2524393


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## Dallas Gold

I'm so sorry your family gave you this stress and these issues.  Your brother sounds like a wonderful caring person! 

I'm glad you remembered the important thing- spending time with your ailing Dad and I'm very glad you got to see him and he's eating more. 

Give yourself a big pat on the back for holding your emotions together for so long and being so patient with those who were critical of you and annoying Bear. I would have lost it almost immediately. : 

Pretty soon Bear will be healed and he can run free and play. You were only doing what was in his best interests. Good for you!


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## goldensrbest

You wrote a post to me on one of my threads,you said dying is just going to another, how did you put that, sorry forgot ,the word you used, your way more mature, than most your age,and older.


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## Brave

goldensrbest said:


> You wrote a post to me on one of my threads,you said dying is just going to another, how did you put that, sorry forgot ,the word you used, your way more mature, than most your age,and older.


Thank you for your kindness. Logically, I believe his death won't be the end of him.... But I struggle with the intangibility of his new state once he passes. I struggle with the knowledge that I won't be able to hug him, kiss him, see his grumpy face. I don't know if I will ever hear his voice, smell his distinctive scent, feel his presence. My friend committed suicide a little over a year ago, and I don't have any connection to her on this plane of existence any more. And as rotten as this sounds ---- I don't want to lose my dad. I don't want him to disappear into just memories. What if I forget his face? His voice? His smile? His laugh? His sense of humor? What if i forget him. How do I make sure no one forgets that he was here. That he existed?

I find I am angry at my mom. And I think I am transferring my anger about Dad dying to her (which probably isn't healthy), but that doesn't stop the hurt or the anger go away. My mind plays cruel games of "if only"

If only my mom didn't drive him away. 
If only I got a normal childhood with normal parents. 
If only he was around for my whole life. 

Obviously I cannot change the past. I just want to stop hurting. My heart feels like a hole is punched through it everytime I realize he is going to die. It's not an abstract thing like when I think about me dying. Or DH dying (cause in my head that is like 100 years from now, though I do everything I can to make sure he knows how much he means to me in case I die unexpectedly). But dad..... Dad is going to die soon. 

Would I be better prepared if I was older?? Does it hurt less if your older? I just keep thinking how I am not ready to lose him. I'm too young to lose him. Which really boils down to what everyone thinks ---- I don't want to lose him. But i will....... And that sucks.


Some days are harder on me. Today I am an emotional mess. I've been crying for the past hour. Bear is comforting me. He started by licking my foot, then he crawled in between DH and I in bed and kissed my face. Now he is gently resting his head on random places.... My arm, my shoulder, my foot, my butt, my leg..... And it's oddly comforting to know he is here just being patient. Giving me the time and space to purge my tears. 

I hope these feelings pass. I don't know what I'm going to do after he is gone. How long will it hurt?

Oh... Looks like Bear sent for reinforcements... The cats just arrived to give me kisses and head butts. 

Thanks for listening.... I know I am rambling.


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## Karen519

*Brave*

What really has helped me is putting my anger and feeling on paper-write about it.

You don't have to do anything with it, just write about it. It is amazing how this lifts the burden of anger. Anger is so destructive and it doesn't change anything, or do any good. 

You are never old enough to lose your parents. You always miss them, but their memories remain in your thoughts and life forever. I lost my Mom eight years ago and my Dad, seven years ago,and just dreampt about them twice last week.


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## Brave

Bear had a bad evening and night. 

He was so stiff and had such a hard time getting up and moving and lying down and everything. When he was sleeping, he was crying and I didn't know why. So I picked him up and carried him to bed and cuddled and rubbed his legs. It hurts my heart to see the bad days. 

The good news is he is feeling better today. Just a little bit longer, Bear. Just a little bit longer. 


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## goldy1

Glad Bear is doing better today. I know how you feel when he is hurting - so very hard. But you are there for him and he knows that.


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## Brave

Tonight he had a fall. I don't even know what happened. I came in from work, turned down the hallway and bear was following me to the bedroom and I hear a plop then a scrabble of nails on the floor. DH was behind me and said his legs just gave out on him. He is stiff again tonight. But he is happy and loving. Very lean-y. And cuddly. To me, that means he is not in pain. Because with pain he gets mopey and sad. The good news is we're down to 16 days!!!!!!!!!!!

Woot woot!!!!!


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## Dallas Gold

Sorry about his fall. So scary to see. Sending lots of healing thoughts to Bear in advance so he can stock them up!


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## Pixie

You will see that 2 weeks will fly by! Hang on in there little man, soon enough you will be runing and drive momma crazy again


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## Karen519

*Bear*

So sorry that Bear fell.
Praying for him.


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## swishywagga

Hoping Bear is feeling better today, not long to go now. Your doing a fabulous job Jen!


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## Brave

He is doing well this morning. Being a semi-good boy. He has a renewed love for his plastic bottle buddy. 

He is still walking a bit funky. I catch him pause with his left leg paused in the air just for a second. Kinda like when you have a hitch in your gait and you take a second before moving forward to try to kick the hitch out. But other than that.- he is well. He is smiling. And goofy. And playful. And I love it!!!


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## Brave

That awkward moment when your tired, and stressed and the boss realizes that you've got a lot on your mind.... Then pesters you to tell him what's wrong and when you tell him your PUPPY is having double knee surgery in 15 days. He wants to know how your HUSBAND torn both ACLs at once. /sigh 

I think I need coffee. Lets paste on a fake smile because sometimes life is easier when strangers don't ask questions. 


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## lhowemt

Brave said:


> I think I need coffee. Lets paste on a fake smile because sometimes life is easier when strangers don't ask questions.
> 
> Oh I messed up quoting you.....
> 
> This is so true. It's crazy when people don't take the statement of "it's personal" seriously. Especially with work relationships, there is nothing that says we must divulge our entire personal life. Hang in there.


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## Brave

lhowemt said:


> This is so true. It's crazy when people don't take the statement of "it's personal" seriously. Especially with work relationships, there is nothing that says we must divulge our entire personal life. Hang in there.


I love my coworkers. The ones in my small knit department that work side-by-side with me. They have seen me facing this problem since March and are very supportive.... It's just others in the company (whose business it really isn't). I'm not mad. Or annoyed. It's just a funny like idiosyncrasy of society. 




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## Karen519

*Jen*



Brave said:


> I love my coworkers. The ones in my small knit department that work side-by-side with me. They have seen me facing this problem since March and are very supportive.... It's just others in the company (whose business it really isn't). I'm not mad. Or annoyed. It's just a funny like idiosyncrasy of society.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Jen

It's great you love most of your coworkers-that helps so much.
Kisses and hugs to Bear.


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## Brave

Thanks!! I'm off to see my Prince. I will pass your hugs and kisses along to him. Ya know how much he loves kisses. <3


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## Brave

Last night just sucked. He walks on his tip toes now, so he looks very odd walking. He had a horrible time getting up. It was more than stiffness. He ended up dragging his legs around for a minute trying to get up before I could reach him and boost him up. 14 more days. 

DH put him in bed last night. And I finally figured out why my ankle feels like someone stretched my ligament.... Bear sleeps on it. He puts a foreleg under my leg, then puts this intense pressure on my foot (his head among other limbs) that in turn puts stress on my ankle. I woke up last night screaming from the pain. Poor Bear was just trying to cuddle with my foot. After I rearranged him, we got some good cuddles in. He was very very lickey last night. To the point I had to stop him from licking me. Is this normal? I worry that he's trying to tell me something and I am not understanding. 


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## Tayla's Mom

Counting the days with you Jen. You are going to be so relieved when it's over. I think you will be surprised how quickly he recovers and you can put this whole thing behind you. You are an incredible dog Mom.


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## Brave

I am cherishing the moment when we have our first walk. It has to be short and slow. But omg. To have a walk with him again. /dreamy sigh. 


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## Karen519

*Jen*

Jen

Ask the vet what the licking could mean.
What day is Bear's surgery scheduled for?


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## Brave

Surgery is 8/14 in the afternoon. He has to be at the vet by 6:30 that morning for prep and x-rays then surgery is scheduled for the afternoon. 

He is less lickey this morning. I will def ask the vet. He is due an update on Bear's tummy problems. 


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## Karen519

*Brave*

Brave

Let us know that the vet says about the licking.
Kisses and hugs to Bear!


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## Brave

My work is temporarily allowing unpaid time off. Good because I am out of pto. Lol. It'll be a little hard on our paycheck, but DH and I decided it is better for me to take the day of surgery off in case of an emergency. And half a day when he gets released to help DH get him settled at home. 

The hospital is 5 minutes from the house and 15 minutes from work. After my friends losing their precious pug after surgery, I am so nervous. I must think positive. Positive. Positive. 


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## coaraujo

I'll be sending positive thoughts your way every day. Its so hard, but staying positive is key. These surgeons do surgeries every day all the time and they're 100% successful. The odds (along with this whole forum ) are on your side. Give Bear a hug for me. In the meantime day dream about all the walks you'll have together, or even plan them out! Maybe find a new state park with trails that go by a pond? I feel like focusing on future adventures help ease the worries and stress.


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## Brave

We'll be in rehab for 3-4 months. I'll daydream, but no planning because I don't want to push him too far too fast afterwards. 

I plan on closing this thread on his birthday, because new, bigger and better things await us.  its been a harrowing 5 month journey. 


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## Dallas Gold

Brave said:


> I am cherishing the moment when we have our first walk. It has to be short and slow. But omg. To have a walk with him again. /dreamy sigh.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I feel as though Bear and I are on a cosmic parallel journey together with his issues and my knee problem that is preventing me from walking my dogs. I also dream of the day when I can walk them pain free. I trust it will come for both Bear and for me. My appt with my orthopedic surgeon is on the 14th- the day of Bear's surgery!


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## Sarahsmom

*Hang in there.*

Hi Brave. 
I have been following this thread for a while now. 
Bear is young and has everything to his advantage. Including you as his mom! He will heal very quickly. He is so sweet. I will continue to pray for him. I know it is hard to worry, buy I try not to go borrowing trouble. He will do great and have a speedy recovery. 
I had a four month old break both her fibula and titular of her hind leg from jumping out of a chair. She was walking on her cast and had to be sedated till our follow up apt. She healed so fast the pins had to stay in her bones. I didn't know what to look for in a breeder and found the worst one possible. Point being, she still did amazing. Your Bear will too!! 
Live in the moment! Be selfish and enjoy every minute with him. 
I slept on a mattress on the floor with my Foxy because she would cry all night to sleep with me. After that I got to sleep and she got her mommy! Much love and Huggs for you and Bear!


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## Karen519

*Brave*



Dallas Gold said:


> I feel as though Bear and I are on a cosmic parallel journey together with his issues and my knee problem that is preventing me from walking my dogs. I also dream of the day when I can walk them pain free. I trust it will come for both Bear and for me. My appt with my orthopedic surgeon is on the 14th- the day of Bear's surgery!


This is really something that Dallas Gold has an ortho appt. the same day as Bear's surgery!

How is Bear!?!?


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## MercyMom

Just thought I would check in to see how Bear is doing. Hang in there dear. Less than two weeks until your surgery huh?


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## Roushbabe

You and Bear are constantly on my mind. I pray for a fast recovery for him. Sending good thoughts your way.


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## Brave

Bear is doing ok. His limp is bad. He struggles but it doesn't stop him from being Bear. He is having diarrhea today. I hope it passes.


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## Karen519

*Bear*

Praying Bear's diarrhea goes away.


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## Brave

No soft poo today. Yay!!!!

The only eventful thing is when DH knocked on the back door (it was locked). Bear woke up startled and ran to the door snarling and barking and making the biggest ruckus. He was convinced DH was NOT DH and followed him around the house with this look in his eyes like "eh. I'm watching you, buster!!"

Funny as all hell. I still can't stop laughing. My little hell hound. 


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## Karen519

*Bear*

Bear is protecting you!


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## Brave

Bear is having a bit of a bad day. My brother came over and didn't want Bear bumping into two rashes on his leg so even though Bar was well behaved, he didn't get a lot of love. 

He's just kind of mopey this afternoon. DH ran to the store and Bear fell asleep waiting for him to come home. 

Don't mind the couch---- the cover is in the wash. 










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## Ylan's Mom

I'm sorry.... I wish that tomorrow is a better day for you...sending Bear a big love :wavey::wavey:hug


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## Karen519

*Jen*

Jen

Maybe I missed it, but what are the rashes from?
Hope Bear feels better very soon.


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## Brave

Karen519 said:


> Jen
> 
> Maybe I missed it, but what are the rashes from?
> Hope Bear feels better very soon.


My brother thinks he got ringworm, and since it can cross species didn't want Bear to catch it. 


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## xoerika620xo

hoping bear feels better.


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## Ksdenton

Love the pic looking over the back of the couch. So cute. Bentley does that on car rides. 







And he did do it when Tebow stayed with us and wouldn't play with him. 









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## Brave

We're hanging tight. 7 days until Bear's birthday! Oh dear! 

8 days until surgery. 

I was watching Bear gnaw on his toys last night and it really hit me. He's almost done being a puppy. And my heart sank a little. I hope he continues being playful like a puppy for many many many years. 


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## swishywagga

Aw another August birthday!, Bear will make sure he makes up for lost time once he is fully recovered, you'll be run off your feet just wait and see. My boy turns 13 this coming Sunday and he is still very much the puppy. Hugs to you both.


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## Brave

Hugs right back!! Bear has this awesome goofy face. I love it. He is such an innocent soul. Any problem can be fixed with a hug and a kiss. 

I'm still struggling emotionally with my Dad's news (and writing this letter to him is probably the hardest thing I've ever done) and Bear will come over and I will hang onto him and bury my face in his mane (he has the softest chest hair) and if I start sobbing, he cranes his chin down and his tongue will materialize out of nowhere and start licking my cheeks or eyelids. Then I can't help but laugh because he is so earnest in his adoration. 

He is truly one in a million. I am so lucky he chose me. 


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## hotel4dogs

I've been thinking of you guys a lot, and will be sending lots of prayers and good wishes for the surgery. 
A really great thing about dogs is that they have no idea what's about to happen, they just live in the moment. He just adores being by you, and that's all he needs to make his life complete.


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## Vhuynh2

I hope the procedure goes well. Bear will be running around like a puppy again in no time!

I cried (a lot) on Molly's first birthday. I know it's stupid, but I couldn't believe one year of her life was already over. 


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## Sarahsmom

I was thinking about Bear and had to check in. Sending him huggs and kisses.


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## Karen519

*Jen*



Brave said:


> Hugs right back!! Bear has this awesome goofy face. I love it. He is such an innocent soul. Any problem can be fixed with a hug and a kiss.
> 
> I'm still struggling emotionally with my Dad's news (and writing this letter to him is probably the hardest thing I've ever done) and Bear will come over and I will hang onto him and bury my face in his mane (he has the softest chest hair) and if I start sobbing, he cranes his chin down and his tongue will materialize out of nowhere and start licking my cheeks or eyelids. Then I can't help but laugh because he is so earnest in his adoration.
> 
> He is truly one in a million. I am so lucky he chose me.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Jen: You and Bear are one in a million. 
Write what's in your heart and your Dad will love it!


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## Brave

Thanks all. It means a lot to me to have so many people caring about us. 

Bear is doing ok. I think his knees are getting worse but that doesn't stop him. He is normally super good about waiting to be invited into bed (cause I have to lift him) but the past couple of nights he has beaten me to the bedroom and leap up into the bed before I could stop him. I'm obviously not very on it since I didn't see the pattern coming. 

Anyways, he lays around me, on me, or in between DH and I until I fall asleep (or am drifting off to sleep) and then he will slide off and lay on the floor at the door. When I wake up in the morning, he is snuggled with me and his smiling face is the first thing I see. It started on Monday, and I think he can sense I don't want to face reality, I don't want to get up and deal with all the adult things on my plate.... So he gives me that extra push. I cannot resist his cute face or the thump-thump of his tail when he realizes I am awake. Or the endless kisses. 

So he drags me out of bed and I face the day. He is my hero. As much as my DH is there for me, our different schedules leaves me without DH in those most vulnerable times (late at night and early morning) but Bear is there. I honestly think I am standing here today because of Bear. I never knew he would be such a special special boy. 

I'm still having a hard time, emotionally. It catches me in random times. I try to remember good memories so I can hang onto them. Idk how I will handle caring for Bear during the first 2-3 weeks post-op. I feel like I am barely hanging onto my sanity by a thread, as it is. Idk how much more I can take. 

And it's selfish---- but I am so tired of being strong. For once I want to be weak and just fall apart without having I worry about picking up the pieces afterwards. 

Please tell me other people have experienced that. 

Thanks for checking in on us. ((((Hugs)))) to all our friends. 


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## Karen519

*Jen*



Brave said:


> Thanks all. It means a lot to me to have so many people caring about us.
> 
> Bear is doing ok. I think his knees are getting worse but that doesn't stop him. He is normally super good about waiting to be invited into bed (cause I have to lift him) but the past couple of nights he has beaten me to the bedroom and leap up into the bed before I could stop him. I'm obviously not very on it since I didn't see the pattern coming.
> 
> Anyways, he lays around me, on me, or in between DH and I until I fall asleep (or am drifting off to sleep) and then he will slide off and lay on the floor at the door. When I wake up in the morning, he is snuggled with me and his smiling face is the first thing I see. It started on Monday, and I think he can sense I don't want to face reality, I don't want to get up and deal with all the adult things on my plate.... So he gives me that extra push. I cannot resist his cute face or the thump-thump of his tail when he realizes I am awake. Or the endless kisses.
> 
> So he drags me out of bed and I face the day. He is my hero. As much as my DH is there for me, our different schedules leaves me without DH in those most vulnerable times (late at night and early morning) but Bear is there. I honestly think I am standing here today because of Bear. I never knew he would be such a special special boy.
> 
> I'm still having a hard time, emotionally. It catches me in random times. I try to remember good memories so I can hang onto them. Idk how I will handle caring for Bear during the first 2-3 weeks post-op. I feel like I am barely hanging onto my sanity by a thread, as it is. Idk how much more I can take.
> 
> And it's selfish---- but I am so tired of being strong. For once I want to be weak and just fall apart without having I worry about picking up the pieces afterwards.
> 
> Please tell me other people have experienced that.
> 
> Thanks for checking in on us. ((((Hugs)))) to all our friends.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Jen: I bet we can all save that we've experienced the feeling that WE NEED support for a change and are tired of being so strong. You ask how you will make it taking care of Bear after his surgery-you will make it one minute, one hour, one day at a time. Bear will have the worst behind him and will be on the mend. You know we'll all be here to listen. As far as your Father, I am so very sorry for all he is going through and you, too. Just tell him how much you love him-that's all he will need to hear.


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## Brave

Lets imagine for a minute how hyper he is going to be once his legs stop hurting. A few months ago (before the strict restriction) he could clear our couch from one side to the other without touching it (its about 3.5 feet tall). He has jumped so high his teeth are at eye level with me (I'm 5'5")

Oh goodness! 

He is going to be a wonderful handful. I cannot wait for him to be 100% so we can do play dates again. /squeal


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## Dallas Gold

I caught up on your thread while I was waiting to be wheeled in for my knee surgery- I was in tears reading about your Dad and wanted to send you virtual hugs as soon as I could post and get my wits about me. You are a truly special young woman, with a lot on your plate, and I'm sending you a lot of comforting thoughts virtually. I'm praying for your Dad and for Bear. HUGS to you and EAR RUBS to the Bear.


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## GoldensGirl

I am closing this thread at Jen's request. Jen, please let us know if you want the thread to be opened again.


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