# Dieting and Calories (a bit long)



## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi!

800 calories a day is fine for him to be eating a day, just make sure you're counting all his extra cookies/kongs/treats etc. in the daily total. Generally, the rule is 10 calories for every pound of his ideal weight. So if you want him to be 80 lbs, then 800 calories total for the day is exactly right. If you want him to be 75 ls, then 750 is the number of calories he should be consuming a day. Whatever you do, don't use the feeding guide on the back of dog food bags - they're always suggesting feeding WAY too much dog food. (Because the more food gets fed, the faster the bag empties, and more bags get bought.)

Giving 2 cups a day of kibble plus a little wet food could easily have been what led to him being overweight. Some of the foods you listed (i.e. Orijen) have close to 450 calories per cup so at 2 cups a day, he'd be getting close to 900 calories a day with just his dry kibble. If he seems hungry at 800 cals a day, you can supplement the food with unsalted green beans to match the volume he's used to getting. So if he's used to getting 3 cups of food a day, you can cut it down to 2 cups of kibble and one cup of unsalted green beans so his belly doesn't feel empty. With these goldens, sometimes it's more about the volume consumed than the calories! 

I'd also cut out the wet food. Are you using it as an incentive to eat? Missing a few meals wouldn't hurt him, from the sounds of it! He may not want to eat because he's not hungry. If you're using it as a treat, there's other healthier (and less caloric) toppings. You can add the juice from a tuna/salmon can, sardines, or an egg (either raw or cooked.) Some people top with a little cottage cheese or probiotic plain yogurt, too.

Also, it's possible your dog isn't active because he's overweight and not feeling too healthy. You'll be doing him a favour by leashing him up and taking him out for more frequent walks. Start slowly, take him out for more frequent but shorter walks, and you'll see the weight drop off. Just like people, dogs need to lose weight through a combination of reduced calories AND increased exercise. If he's walking a mile or two a day now, try adding an extra half mile walk every second day for a week. On the second week, an extra half mile every day. On the third week, another extra half mile every second day and so on. 

I'd also look into getting a kibble-dispensing toy for him to eat his meals out of. Something like the a-maze-ball or kong wobbler so he has to follow it around and get his meals out of it instead of just gobbling it down. Alternatively, you could just scatter his kibble outside in a safe, fenced area and let him sniff out each piece. 

Good luck in his diet and exercise program! Remember that leaner dogs tend to live longer than overweight dogs so you'll get to spend more time with him once he's at a healthy, lean weight!


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Excellent post Ranger. That about sums it up from me too.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

^^^ I started to type up something about a healthy dog being able to walk at least 5 miles a day, least of all 3 miles. But Ranger's advice here is best - don't try to do too much all at once, but you need to get that dog out and moving. 

The other thing is 1.5 cups a day should still get the weight off of a dog getting minimal exercise a day. I would double-check the thyroid. Did they do the complete screen sent to MSU? 

And how long has he been on a 1.5 cup diet? It can take 2 or 3 months on a consistent diet and daily exercise to start seeing a difference. Are you doing monthly weight checks at the vet?


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## sdelman89 (May 31, 2011)

*Food*

No he eats dry food with no wet food like its going out of style, he loves food and treats so much. I started adding wet food to my other dogs food because he is a picky eater. Now the only reason I'm adding wet food to my overweight dog's food s because I know the NB Sweet Potato & Bison is fairly low in fat and protein so I'm adding the Wellness 95% or Merrick B.G for extra fat and protein. 

Yes his thyroid test was sent to I think Michigan? It's been tested twice. Both times it was normal. Although he was on a strict raw diet for 3 months eating way below what he should have been getting and he didn't lose a single pound.

Also, I was giving him salmon oil but I cut that out because someone told me that can add extra pounds. Anyone know if that's true?

A problem we are having with walks is he wont walk. We can't even make it down the driveway without him being "stubborn" and sitting down and refusing to walk. I'm lucky to get him to walk a couple houses down. If he doesn't want to go a certain way he will just stop walking and if I pull he will pull back and throw up his paws and fight me. After slipping out of his collar I will only walk him with a martingale collar. I was going to post this in the behavioral section but if anyone has an ideas on how to break him of this please let me know as he did it a little bit starting a year ago but lately its been EVERY walk and EVERY time. I dont know if it's cause we live in Florida and it's so hot but he even does this on our early morning walks and late night walks when it's cooler. He's such a stubborn boy. 

In march he weighed 86 lbs, a couple days ago he got weighed and was 91lbs.


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## sdelman89 (May 31, 2011)

I forgot to add his new feeding schedule is the following:
Breakfast
1 cup of NB Sweet Potato & Bison
1 tablespoon wet food

Dinner
1/2 cup NB Sweet Potato & Bison
1 Tablespoon wet food
1/2 cup green beans

I also counted the calories for all his treats and pre baggie what he can get in one day so I know once that's gone he is done for the day.

Thank you everyone for your help!


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Our salmon oil is 40 cals/ teaspoon. Does he play fetch? Swim? Seems as if you need to find something to get him moving, not only to help him lose weight but for his health.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Definitely post the walking issue in the training/behavioural forum so the trainers on the forum can chime in. In the meantime, like Penny and Maggie's Mom said, he needs to get moving. Throwing a ball? Frisbee? Flying squirrel? Can you drive him to an off leash area and let him wander around (either off leash if he's trustworthy or on a long lead if he isn't.) Maybe sniffing new scents in a new area will make him want to walk off. Do you have tasty cookies in your pocket when you're walking him? I'd give him a cookie or even lure him with a cookie in hand to reward when walking. Definitely keep the martingale on - I have to do the same with my guy for that exact reason! He can slip out of collars and most harnesses in the blink of an eye. 

Personally, I'd cut out the wet dog food until he gets to a healthy weight. An egg, sardines, etc. a few times a week would probably be a healthier way to get more protein into his diet. The wet tablespoons of dog food would be like me trying to lose weight but still having 2 cookies a day. Oh wait...


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Does he have a sad expression? 
Does anything get him excited? 
When he walks does he walk carefully/cautiously?

Would you care to share his actual thyroid numbers? Liberty's results were "Normal" from MSU...however her behavior and appearance were suspicious...she is on a supplement and she is becoming a happy active dog again...

If you take your dog for a car ride and go to an unfamiliar place will he walk further?


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

Three years of age is very young to be such an inactive dog if he is truly healthy. Maybe check thyroid again and look at behavioral training suggestions as suggested by posters more knowledgeable than I am about those things.

My Bentley is 10 years old and eats not less than 2 cups a day of Acana, Fromm Surf & Turf, or Go Natural Grain-free Endurance - none of which are low in calories. He maintains a 68 - 70 lb. weight. He walks a couple miles a day and does only some mild ball chasing since he is arthritic.

I'd be concerned with the OP feeding only 1 1/2 cups a day of Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Bison. It is only 20% protein and 10% fat; so it's hard to imagine that the dog's nutritional or energy needs would be meant through that little of the kibble. My Bentley has much more energy and lean muscle in the last 5 years since he started eating grain-free, lower carb and moderate protein kibbles.

I realize every dog is different; but I just don't think that a small amount of a low protein and low fat kibble should be the primary strategy for the OP's dog's issues.


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## GoldenOwner12 (Jun 18, 2008)

My Shelley is also on a diet, I feed her Black hawk holistic 25% protein 14% fat 350 calories per cup. I was feeding Shelley 1 1/2 cups but it looks like she has gained weight again so I have dropped her food to 1 1/4 cup. My Shelley gets plenty of exercise tho some days its only 40 minutes, some days it may be 40 minutes in the morning 40 minutes in the afternoon. On nice sunny weather I take her for a 2 hour walk beside the river/bush. For the past 4 days she has been on hthe 2 hour walk,run and swimming. Today she got taken to the oval as the weather isn't the best.


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## sdelman89 (May 31, 2011)

*Thyroid*

LibertyME, I just looked all over the house but I can't seem to find the piece of paper with his thyroid results. I will post them as soon as I can get another copy on monday, I would love your input. Yes he does walk carefully, always has a sad expression and only really gets excited for food time and daycare. I just did some more research on thyroids in dogs and he seems to fit the bill for thyroid problems but his tests were "normal". I may have to talk to his vet because I would love to have him playful and happy again like he was when he was a puppy. Can I ask what supplement you put your baby on? 

So far the diet has been going ok. To me he looks even bigger though but it's only been about a week. We will have a weigh in on June 14. He goes to daycare once a week and swims for about an hour there so I know he loves to swim. I wish I had a pool for him to swim in but daycare will have to do. We just walked a mile and a half and he was so stubborn throughout the whole thing but I bought Fromm cranberry liver treats (only one calorie a piece) so a couple of those got him walking again!

I will also post pictures of his body either tonight or tomorrow so hopefully everyone can let me know how much weight he really needs to lose!


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## sdelman89 (May 31, 2011)

Also on his nutrition response test the vet said no chicken, eggs, yogurt, dairy, milk, or cheese so that really limits food choices  I used to add eggs to hs food but I guess for now he can't have any!


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## sdelman89 (May 31, 2011)

Here are some pictures of my boy, Monty. He is 3 years old and weights 91lbs.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I don't want to get your hopes up, because he could be developing a stud tail... but it looks like he might have thinning hair by the base of his tail that thyroid dogs seem to get.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

And as posted here in other threads, low normal thyroid for a golden is actually low. Many vets don't recognize or acknowledge this. Did they do a full thyroid panel?


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## sdelman89 (May 31, 2011)

yes a full panel was done. the vet said one of the levels was a little low i think t4? but still considered normal. im thinking of getting him tested yet again because the more i read the more im convinced he has some kind of thyroid problem. Its just so confusing and irritating to not know whats wrong with him.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

sdelman89 said:


> yes a full panel was done. the vet said one of the levels was a little low i think t4? but still considered normal. im thinking of getting him tested yet again because the more i read the more im convinced he has some kind of thyroid problem. Its just so confusing and irritating to not know whats wrong with him.


If you have the results and a full panel, you can send to Dr Dodds and for a nominal fee she will interpret and even consult with your vet. Her site is www.hemopet.com


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## sdelman89 (May 31, 2011)

*thyroid*

thank you, I will certainly look into that getting done!


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## turtle66 (Feb 19, 2010)

Just an idea to measure the calories/ including treats: I put the food for the whole day in a place (breakfast and dinner); but this is also the place where we get out the treats - meaning - we use often normal treats for normal walks. Since your dog is so food motivated I would recommend the first walk BEFORE breakfast and BEFORE dinner time and he can have some kibble of his breakfast/dinner during the walk.

I totally agree with everything else what has been said.
Your really might want to look into the thyroid panel again. And by the way - I assume, he does have a normal examination - no heart murmur or anything mentioned, which could slow him down, too.

Heike


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