# fibrosarcoma



## CAROLINA MOM

I don't have any experience with this, but wanted to let you know how sorry I am to hear this news. I am sending you and your boy my thoughts and prayers.


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## BayBeams

Oh my...so sorry to hear about this. I definitely would seek the advice of a specialist prior to making more surgical decisions. They will know best how to achieve clear margins.
I am not familiar with this specific type of cancer but dealt with different cancers in my dog. It can be such a stressful time for you. Try to take time away from the worry to clear your head and enjoy your moments together.
Wishing you the best.


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## Sally's Mom

LuckyPenny's, Penny has had fibrosarcoma in a trickier location, you can PM her...


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## cgriffin

Thank you, Sally's Mom, I will do that.
I am sorry that I have two threads going on the forum. I hope Admin can forgive.
I should have clarified, the tumor was on the inside of his left thigh and the incision runs from right above the knee till right before it enters groin territory. I have no way of knowing where the margins were not clean. My worry is that there is not a whole lot of area to cut around, but we will see. I need to think positive for Thunder.
Thank you all!


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## Lucky Penny

So sad to hear of your dog. My 8 year old girl, Penny has been fighting fibrosarcoma for three years in her face. It is a locally aggressive tumor that very rarely spreads anywhere else. It is also slow growing. The tumor is like a spider, it has it’s main body and then it has multiple tendrils that spread out to spread the tumor else where. I do not know to much about it in other parts of the body, since my experience has only been in the face. 

The ideal course of treatment for this type of tumor is usually surgical removal and then radiation. Every case is different though. I had the tumor surgically removed from Penny’s face. I can not stress how important it is to find the best surgeon around to get rid of the tumor and to get ideal margins. Surgery for this tumor usually only happens once, and you want to get the most out that you can. I had a surgeon who specialized in face surgery, who was very aggressive in getting Penny’s tumor out. She got all the tumor, but was not able to get all the margins she wanted, all though the margins came back clean. They wanted to do 3 full weeks of radiation after, but I decided against that. The reason they want to do radiation after surgery, is because of the tendrils. It is very hard to ever really get rid of them, even if clean margins were attained. So radiation can kill them microscopically. 

I took a holistic approach for the past three years, seeing a holistic vet, and doing everything in the book. I believe whole heartily that what I did and what I am doing holistically has improved and prolonged Penny’s life. Penny has lived much longer that what the oncologists predicted. Last summer, the tumor came back....

I was heartbroken, but was so thankful for Penny being two years tumor sign free. She enjoyed life every day, and did something fun every day. I have learned a lot from her. Enjoy the present, don’t worry about the past or future, do things you love now, and enjoy them 100%. We have to remember that with dogs when we are choosing types of treatments. They do not care about getting to the next holiday, they only care about right now, and what they can do right now to enjoy life. Quality over quantity.

Surgery was not an opinion the second time around with Penny’s tumor; because some of it was in a inoperable location. So we did once a week for weeks of palliative radiation. It is not aimed to kill the tumor, only to shrink it and reduce pain. I have to tell you all, radiation is not kind to dogs. I was so thankful I never did the 5 days a week for three weeks radiation two years ago, because after only three very powerful treatments of radiation, Penny was a mess. She was in so much pain. After she healed, signs showed that the radiation worked and the tumor had shrunk. 

We started her on a fairly new chemotherapy treatment called metronomic chemotherapy. It is a low dose of chemo that you give in pill form. It is so low dose, that it can be given every other day. It is meant to slow the cancer down or even stop it. We put her on it in September and just this last month, had to take a break from it, because it went to her bladder. Still trying to clear that out. This summer will be three years since Penny was diagnosed with this cancer. I feel blessed to still have her with me today, and to have had all that extra time with her. As heartbroken as I am about the tumor growing back in her face, I try my best to remember that I have gotten three wonderful extra years with her. That is very rare when fighting cancer. So, with this type of cancer, there is a lot of hope. 

I suggest going to see an oncologist, and to get someone specialized in surgery to do the surgery. You have opinions, just remember to make them for quality of life, not quantity. My thoughts go out to you and Thunder. Please keep us updated, and do not hesitate to ask me any questions you may have about the treatment process. This is so hard, I know, but just remember to take it day by day.


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## Lucky Penny

One last thing, do not be afraid to cut a lot out during surgery. Penny had a lot of her face taken out, and the surgeon did an awesome job cosmetically. Looking at her face today, know one would ever know how much was actually taken out. She has adapted to it so nicely, and still enjoys life. Surgery is your first line of fire, go as far as you can go with it.


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## cgriffin

Thank you so much!
Yes, I plan to consult with a surgeon and oncologist. My vet is working to get into contact with them and take it from there.
My thoughts are if they need to cut out more and not have to do radiation, would be more my choice. I don't trust that my vet can do the more extensive surgery considering that the margins were not clean since we did not know that it was cancerous and he did not do a needle biopsy prior.
As far as I remember, I was told that there seems to be more cancerous cells in deep tissue. I know in cats they often take the entire leg for that type of cancer. I guess we wil see. Everything is just bouncing around in my head right now, because I want to do what is best for Thunder.
I have been working out in the yard, trying not to dwell, since there is nothing I can do till mid next week. 
Thank you so much, it helped getting your info and I will PM you if I have more questions. Thanks again! 
Have a great weekend and be safe!


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## cgriffin

Where are my manners? Lauren, I am also sorry about your Penny. I wish her all the best and good luck! She seems to be a trooper!


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## Jennifer1

I have a friend whose dog had soft tissue fibrosarcoma. By the time they found it (HUGE tumor on the back of her thigh-she was pretty shaggy so they didn't notice it until it was pretty big) it had already spread to the liver-she had pretty bad liver enzymes at the time. They were given a very poor prognosis. They ended up going the chemo route. I know they had her on palladia, not sure what else. They ended up having her another 2 years (she was 13 when they had her euthanized when the cancer returned and she went downhill fast). During that 2 years her liver enzymes went back to normal and most of that time was great quality time.


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## Buddy's mom forever

Sending my prayers for Thunder. Best wishes for successful treatment.


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## Lucky Penny

I am happy to read you have plans to talk with a surgeon and oncologist. I am also happy that you are all about surgery. When you talk with the surgeon and oncologist, hopefully you will feel a lot more better about the treatment process. They love what they do, which makes them amazing at what they do. Don’t feel bad that you don’t want your vet to do the surgery, he/she understands that this is beyond their level of doing. My vet came straight out and told me that he did not feel comfortable taking any of Penny’s tumor out, because it was past his level of expertness. I respected him so much for telling me that. 

I am glad Jennifer1 was able to give some advice, since I really no nothing about fibrosarcoma in the leg. The oncologist will be able to tell you all that deep tissue information. Yes, in cats they do take the leg. It is also seen on the shoulders, and they take a big chunk of skin there. Fibrosarcoma in cats is a bit different then in dogs. 

What you have been doing so far has been the best for Thunder. Until you meet with the oncologist and surgeon, there is nothing more you can do. It is okay to feel the way you do, it is a great idea to try and keep your mind busy, as hard as it may be. Feel free to PM me with any thoughts, even if you think they are crazy. I have been where you are, and understand completely. 

And remember, the last thing on Thunder’s mind is the cancer in his leg. All he wants to do is to be with you and have fun. So for him, get out there and have fun!

Thank you for your thoughts for Penny. She has been fighting this cancer for 3 years! She is a trooper!

Do you have any pictures to share of Thunder?


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## cgriffin

Thank you Lauren. Your words are very kind and I appreciate them very much!
Thunder is feeling good, he does not know he has cancer. I guess our pets are blessed with not knowing the word "cancer" and the meaning behind it. The reason why I am a bit hesitant with thinking of chemo or radiation, is because Thunder is already 11 years old and I am thinking about his quality of life and how everything would effect his quality of life. Sounds very scary to me to think him in pain from radiation where right now, he is pain free. Do I make sense? 
So far today, I have not had to put the 'cone' on him, he is leaving his incision alone. It is still a little puffy and red, but not as bad. The antibiotics are kicking in. It is also an area with tension on it, being on the leg and all.
We rescued Thunder from a kill shelter a bit over 10 Years ago. He was a ten month old pup and his time was up. We never regretted making Thunder part of our family and he is a great big brother to Toby, our golden, and to Dachsi, our former stray dachshund. 
Here are a few pics of Thunder:


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## Jennifer1

He's gorgeous
When you talk to the oncologist tell them what you need as far as keeping him comfortable. Bear went through chemo and other than some diarrhea (more likely due to food change than chemo) she never had a bad day from treatment. I made sure my vet knew that her comfort was first and foremost of importance. They use much smaller doses on dogs than on people so most dogs do t get the same side effects that people get.


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## cgriffin

When I hear about that there is only one chance at surgery to get it all, does that mean that because he had the tumor excised already, they won't be able to get most of it next time? 
I am new to this type of cancer, so please bear with me. Thank you!


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## Jennifer1

Here's an article that explains it
Cancer Surgery Never as Good as First Time


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## cgriffin

Thank you Jennifer!
That article helped to understand. Oh, the scary part is, in the article it says not to "shell out" or "peel out" the tumor. Well, my vet was saying that he did exactly that. Arghhh!
I know he is a regular vet, I know that we did not know it was cancer, but is drives me nuts thinking about it. I really am terribly worried about Thunder. 
I hope that I will get more answers tomorrow and see when I can consult with the specialists. 
Thank you again!


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## cgriffin

I was just e-mailing back and forth with the board certified surgeon that did Toby's orthopedic surgeries. He specializes in any kind of surgery and I do trust him.
I was not sure if my regular vet had consulted with him over the phone and my regular vet is not working today, so I took matters in my own hand. Anyway, explaining the situation of Thunder this is what came back from the surgeon:

"your best bet is to recut the surgical site and get a wide aggressive margin, these are locally aggressive tumors and not chemotherapy responsive. the oncologist should recommend recut- if clean margin you are done and simply monitor, but again, with a dirty margin chemotherapy will not be recommended. if interested i would recommend not removing the sutures so we have a marker for the next surgery and the pathologist to evaluate the old surgical site. call me if you have further questions. todd"


I tried to call him but there was no answer, that means he is either in surgery or on the road. So, I wrote back to him about whether he wanted to consult and see Thunder and when he would be in town. He is a mobile surgeon, working out of a clinic in Nashville but driving to clinics throughout TN and KY for consults and surgeries. He did a really great Job with Toby and he is very nice.

Anyway, just wanted to post this. Hubby is at work and not always in the office, so I needed to talk or write to somebody and here it is, 
Any input?
Thank you!


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## Tuckers Mom

I lost my 13 year Old Golden " Frazier" to fibrosarcoma January 2011. He had it on his shoulder. Started out as a diagnosis of fatty lipoma tumor and a " watch and wait" due to the fact that it appeared so late in his life. The tumor grew so large it began to rupture and had attached itself to the tendons of his front leg and we put him down. I am so sorry for your diagnosis. FWIW, Frazier lived 2 years with it and was very very happy until the very end.


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## cgriffin

Thank you for your post and I am so sorry about your Frazier!
It frustrates me, when vets want to do the wait and see at times. But, hey, I could have gotten a second opinion, so I am not blameless with Thunder. 
I talked to the surgeon and he will call me back, once he talked to my regular vet. Obviously, my regular vet had not contacted him yet. Arghhh!
But, the surgeon is going to be in town tomorrow or the day after for a consult and possible surgery if I agree to it. He said, that the oncologist would most likely recommend agressive surgery before anything else. In the surgeon's opinion, chemo does not do a lot for this type of cancer and he is hesitant to want to put all those poisons in Thunder's body if we have a chance to get it all by surgery. I do agree with that.
So, now I am waiting to see and hear from the surgeon.
Thank you again and I am again, so sorry about your Frazier!


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## Dallas Gold

Christa, Thunder is so handsome. I'm sending you best wishes. I wish I could answer some of your questions, but I'm unfamiliar with this type of cancer. HUGS.


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## cgriffin

I am having a consult with a board certified surgeon tomorrow morning. He said not to feed Thunder just in case we decide on surgery. He also wants me to bring Toby along,so he can give Toby a check-up and visit with him. He did the TPLO and the FHO on Toby last year. BTW, Toby is my golden retriever for all of you that do not know that.
I will report back tomorrow.


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## Lucky Penny

Thunder is such a handsome boy! He is so adorable with the cone of shame on! He says “mom what did I do to deserve this!”. What a life you have given him, he must be so thankful you rescued him!

You are right, if dogs know they are sick, they really do not make a big deal of it. They rather enjoy life to its fullest. Why spend the whole day acting sick and not having fun?

I understand your concern with Thunder’s age. I actually would be more concerned about the surgery, rather then the chemo and radiation. But with this type of cancer, surgery is the first thing you really gotta do. It sounds like you have a great surgeon you trust, and who seems confident in Thunder’s cancer removal. I would feel safe going with him. Or if there is another surgeon you talk with and feel confident about. Never go into any treatment unless you are feeling confident about it. The only type of chemo that I could see him going on after surgery, and I would ask about is Metronomic Chemotherapy.
Metronomic Chemotherapy
It is a very different type of chemo then all the other ones, because it is not in high doses. So the dogs can stay on it for awhile, because it doesn’t have much negative side effects. You give it at home in a pill form. No IV. I had no idea that Penny was on it. She was on it for 8 months before one of the negative side effects happened. Which was it got into her bladder and made her have to pee all the time. It has been a month since that is started, and it is finally some what clearing up for her. We took her off the chemo and will put her back on it later. 

Radiation effects each dog differently. I don’t know how radiation effects dogs when it is targeted to the leg. Maybe someone with that experience can chime in. I do know that it was very powerful when we did it to Penny’s face. I am hesitate to do that again. 

I agree that you just need to let your oncologist know what you want for Thunder. They are all about quality of life. Is Thunder on any type of pain killers?

When you hear that there is only one chance at the surgery, it means that: A surgery this aggressive is a lot on the dog. They are taking A LOT out, because of the margins required. It is also a lot to put a dog under, and have the dog go through the healing process from a aggressive surgery, which will take weeks. Surgery is your best first attack, but it does effect quality of life, because the dog has to heal from it. Also, during the first surgery, the surgeon is going to get everything he/she can. Usually if the tumor comes back, it will be in some areas that are inoperable, or your questioning quality of life. When Penny’s tumor came back a second time, the surgeon said she could not get all the tumor out, because some of it was in an inoperable area. Even though she could get some of the tumor out, we choose not to do surgery. We had already been through the healing process, and did not want to make Penny go through that again. Instead we did radiation and chemotherapy. 

Tuckers Mom, I am so sad to read about Frazier. But reading he had two years after being diagnosed. That is awesome! No cancers are good; but the nice thing with fibrosarcoma is it is slow growing. So we get more time with our loved ones, compared with some other cancers that move very fast. 
I as well hate the wait and see game, I have played it many times. I know I am not alone in saying this, but I bet people think I am crazy when I call the vet and freak out over something silly like a cyst. Better to be safe then sorry I guess.

I am happy to read your have connected with the surgeon. I would defiantly wait to do the surgery until you have at least talked with the oncologist first. Happy to read Toby is doing so well!


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## cgriffin

Thanks Lauren.
The thing is around here, it takes forever to get a referal made. My regular vet did not even talk to the surgeon when he said he was going to. So, I am really not sure when a referal wth an oncologist would happen.
Yes, I am pretty confident in this surgeon. He is the type that takes charge and does not waste time. I am often like that also. He does want to do surgery tomorrow if he thinks it is the best course of action and if he has the time to do it. So, now I am torn. Do I let him do the surgery if he is confident he can do it tomorrow, do I wait to talk to an oncologist, or do I not do anything for Thunder's sake because he is feeling good right now and hope for a long quality of life? I really do not know at this point what I am going to do, what I want to do, what is the best thing to do. 
Surgery does scare me, of course. I have no idea how aggressive the surgeon will have to be considering the area it is located at. Radiation scares me because of the potential for bad side effects. About the chemo, I don't know enough about this particular chemo, but am also worried about side effects and quality of life.
I just don't know what to do right now. I will have the consult tomorrow and take it from there I guess. I will make sure to get all my questions answered. Dr. Murphy is pretty good about explaining it all, so I hope he will tell me what the best course of action would be, what he suggests and take it from there. 
Too much going on in my head right now. I agree, that I will not let myself be pressured into anything and I have to try to go with my gut instinct also in this. 
I just hope I will make the right decision for Thunder.


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## Kobe'sMom

Oh, Thunder! He's beautiful.

Dealing with diagnosis for my boy Kobe too. Waiting and waiting for results... What an ordeal! I am sending Thunder some good vibes... You too!


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## cgriffin

Thank you so much! I am sending only positive thoughts to Kobe and you! I am hoping for all the best for you all!


I just got back from the surgical consult. Thunder is having surgery today and can hopefully come home tonight. 
The surgeon is very confident that he can get it all out. He said, looking at it, he has got a lot to work with and is very hopeful and confident about it. Pathology will tell. He said, if he can get it all, I would not have to worry about it anymore, but keep monitoring Thunder for any new growth. He will also check all the lumps and bumps Thunder has all over his body and do needle aspirates on those that don't feel like lipomas. 
I was mulling about it all night and was a bit apprehensive this morning, but talking to the surgeon, I felt like this was the right thing to do. 
I will be sitting on pins and needles again all day till I hear how the surgery went.
I will keep updates coming.


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## BayBeams

Wishing Thunder a speedy recovery and you peace of mind with the choices you make. It sounds like you made a good decision to go with an action oriented surgeon that you trust.

One thing I would suggest is that if, after the surgery, you want additional advice from the oncologist, make the connection yourself. I realize they want a referral but when my dog had a suspected cancer I called the oncologist myself, made the appointment, then drove down to my regular vet to get the referral sheet in person and took it with me to the appointment. My vet also faxed it to the oncologist at my urging. I didn't want to be a "pest" but sometimes we need to be when it comes to our beloved companions.


I'll be thinking positive thoughts for you and Thunder with a wish for clear margins!


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## Bob Dylan

Positive thoughts and prayers for Thunder. He is so handsome!


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## Lucky Penny

I agree to contact the oncologist yourself; especially after you get the pathology report back. My thoughts are with you and Thunder today. He sounds like he is in the best hands. I was the same way when Penny was getting her surgery. I must of called a million times asking if there was any news. Just take deep breaths and remember how much you trust your surgeron.


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## cgriffin

Thank you all!
Thunder was already out of surgery by eleven this morning. He came through all well and was in recovery. The surgeon said he was very confident that he got it all, but of course we won't know till the lab results come back. He said he had a lot of tissue to work with and cut, which was very good.
So, I will pick-up Thunder after 4:30 this afternoon. His cone of shame is waiting, lol. It is not going to make him happy.
BTW, Toby got his check-up also, having had TPLO and FHO last year and the surgeon was very pleased with his muscle mass and progress. Yay Toby!

Yes, I will see if I can contact the oncologist down in Nashville once I have the report back. 
My regular vet knew that I was a bit frustrated with him and he apologized for not having followed through with referrals. Oh well. 
Anyway, thank you again and I will keep updating.


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## Lucky Penny

Happy to read that Thunder's surgery went well! Was the surgeon able to get good margins as well? It sounds like you were lucky with the location of the tumor, because there was a lot of tissue to work with. Glad you are going to contact the oncologist yourself. Even though you had the surgery, I think it is important to talk with them. You must be so relieved to get that nasty tumor out. I am sending happy healing thoughts to Thunder. Keep us posted.


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## Jennifer1

I'm glad Thunder came through surgery well. Here's hoping for clean margins!


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## cgriffin

On the phone, the surgeon sounded confident that he got good margins. He was very positive about everything. 
Yes, I am very relieved and looking forward to bringing my baby home. 
Thank you!


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## cgriffin

Thunder is home and is sleeping in his dog bed. He is very tired and very sore, it breaks my heart! I guess we never get used to seeing our furkids miserable and in pain after surgeries. I felt the same way when Thunder had his surgery 12 days ago and when Toby had his surgeries. 
Last time Thunder was his happy self by the next day and wanting to run. I don't anticipate it this time. They took so much out and he is on strict confinement and leash walks for potty breaks only. 
He is on Tramadol for pain and Amoxicillin as antibiotics. Suture removal in 14 days, labs should be back in 7-10 days. 
I do hope it comes back clean and that he won't have to have any further treatment or surgery.
The tech told me to watch his incision very carefully and ice it also, because with cancer the healing time takes so much longer.
Anyway, I will keep you updated. Thanks for your well wishes, prayers and positive thoughts. It means a lot to me and my family.


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## Lucky Penny

Yay, for Thunder being home! What a trooper he is. So glad he has some good meds, and the vet was positive about the margins. It is going to be hard to keep him calm!


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## Jennifer1

I'm so glad he's home


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## PrincessDi

Very glad that he's home and doing well!!


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## Ljilly28

Lucky Penny said:


> So sad to hear of your dog. My 8 year old girl, Penny has been fighting fibrosarcoma for three years in her face. It is a locally aggressive tumor that very rarely spreads anywhere else. It is also slow growing. The tumor is like a spider, it has it’s main body and then it has multiple tendrils that spread out to spread the tumor else where. I do not know to much about it in other parts of the body, since my experience has only been in the face.
> 
> The ideal course of treatment for this type of tumor is usually surgical removal and then radiation. Every case is different though. I had the tumor surgically removed from Penny’s face. I can not stress how important it is to find the best surgeon around to get rid of the tumor and to get ideal margins. Surgery for this tumor usually only happens once, and you want to get the most out that you can. I had a surgeon who specialized in face surgery, who was very aggressive in getting Penny’s tumor out. She got all the tumor, but was not able to get all the margins she wanted, all though the margins came back clean. They wanted to do 3 full weeks of radiation after, but I decided against that. The reason they want to do radiation after surgery, is because of the tendrils. It is very hard to ever really get rid of them, even if clean margins were attained. So radiation can kill them microscopically.
> 
> I took a holistic approach for the past three years, seeing a holistic vet, and doing everything in the book. I believe whole heartily that what I did and what I am doing holistically has improved and prolonged Penny’s life. Penny has lived much longer that what the oncologists predicted. Last summer, the tumor came back....
> 
> I was heartbroken, but was so thankful for Penny being two years tumor sign free. She enjoyed life every day, and did something fun every day. I have learned a lot from her. Enjoy the present, don’t worry about the past or future, do things you love now, and enjoy them 100%. We have to remember that with dogs when we are choosing types of treatments. They do not care about getting to the next holiday, they only care about right now, and what they can do right now to enjoy life. Quality over quantity.
> 
> Surgery was not an opinion the second time around with Penny’s tumor; because some of it was in a inoperable location. So we did once a week for weeks of palliative radiation. It is not aimed to kill the tumor, only to shrink it and reduce pain. I have to tell you all, radiation is not kind to dogs. I was so thankful I never did the 5 days a week for three weeks radiation two years ago, because after only three very powerful treatments of radiation, Penny was a mess. She was in so much pain. After she healed, signs showed that the radiation worked and the tumor had shrunk.
> 
> We started her on a fairly new chemotherapy treatment called metronomic chemotherapy. It is a low dose of chemo that you give in pill form. It is so low dose, that it can be given every other day. It is meant to slow the cancer down or even stop it. We put her on it in September and just this last month, had to take a break from it, because it went to her bladder. Still trying to clear that out. This summer will be three years since Penny was diagnosed with this cancer. I feel blessed to still have her with me today, and to have had all that extra time with her. As heartbroken as I am about the tumor growing back in her face, I try my best to remember that I have gotten three wonderful extra years with her. That is very rare when fighting cancer. So, with this type of cancer, there is a lot of hope.
> 
> I suggest going to see an oncologist, and to get someone specialized in surgery to do the surgery. You have opinions, just remember to make them for quality of life, not quantity. My thoughts go out to you and Thunder. Please keep us updated, and do not hesitate to ask me any questions you may have about the treatment process. This is so hard, I know, but just remember to take it day by day.


This is a wise and wonderful post, reminding me about why I love the forum.


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## Buddy's mom forever

I am glad your boy is home. Sending healing vibes and prayers for speedy and fully recovery.


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## cgriffin

Thank you!

We had a rough night, not much sleep. Thunder was very uncomfortable and wanted to go out every half an hour to urinate and no luck. He finally calmed down and got some sleep in the wee hours of the morning.
I took him out at 6:30 AM and he had a decent stream. He then ate his breakfast and got his meds. That calmed him down a lot and he has been sleeping ever since.
I talked to the surgeon this morning about his urinary problems over night and the restlessness. He said, that it could be from pain or the meds and anesthesia yesterday. He told me, that he is not too worried right now, since Thunder is sleeping now. The surgeon told me to give the Tramadol three times a day today for pain control, keep icing the incision site, keep monitoring him and if he is more comfortable by tomorrow, cut back on the Tramadol to twice daily. 
Just got done icing again and Thunder slept pretty much through it, he got startled when I removed the ice. He must have really conked out.


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## Lucky Penny

Jill, thank you , your very sweet! A lot of people on this forum have so much to share with others. It is so nice.

Poor Thunder. : ( I know what it is like to get up in the wee hours of the night! No fun! Glad he is able to get some sleep now. The first couple of days after surgery are no fun for dog or human. Just take it day by and day and you will pull through it. Did you take the rest of the week off of work to take care of him? Glad the pain meds are working. My healing thoughts go out to him.


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## cgriffin

Thank you, Lauren!

I am not working outside the home for now. I am an LVT, but for now homemaker,crittermom, pool woman?, lawn service, and so on ........ 

Thunder was sleeping most of the day, but when he was not sleeping, he was wagging, kissing and begging for treats. I am so happy that he got some much needed rest today. I stretched out on the couch, but could not relax, listening to every noise Thunder made. 
His incision looks good so far, I hope it stays that way. And I hope we will all get some much needed rest tonight.


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## Buddy's mom forever

Prayers for peaceful night pain free.


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## cgriffin

Thank you!
We had a good and pain free night! The Tramadol really works well for Thunder. Thunder slept through except for wanting out one time, when all boys wanted out. But everybody went back to sleep afterwards. 
This morning, Thunder is feeling a bit too good, he wanted to dash out the front door. NO, cannot let him, sorry bud. So, he has been out and I put a big comforter on the front porch for him to lay on so he can be outside a bit, it is nice and cool for a change this morning. It is all roofed over and I put a gate on, so he has a limited space and cannot hurt himself but enjoy being out for a bit. 
Updates to follow


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## Lucky Penny

So happy to read Thunder is feeling better. Also happy to read that you both got some sleep! How nice that you are working from home right now!


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## Buddy's mom forever

I am glad Thunder is feeling better. Hugs and prayers for another peaceful and pain free night.


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## cgriffin

Thank you!!
Yep, another good day, another good night. Thunder is actually feeling too good for his own good. He is like a prancing horse on a lead, lol. 
He decided he is not going to pee while on leash, trying to force me to let him lose. He thinks he is so smart, lol.
All the weeks that Toby had to be confined and leash walked, was a breeze compared to just a few days into Thunder's recovery. 
I am looking forward to 14 days post-op suture removal.


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## Buddy's mom forever

I am glad Thunder is feeling good and on the way to speedy recovery.


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## Lucky Penny

How is Thunder doing? Any news from the biopsy or oncologist?


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## cgriffin

No, no news yet.
Thunder is doing great. Just saw that the part of his incision that is just about reaching into the groin area, is a bit irritated. I think that is from skin on skin contact. I put some neopredef powder on it to keep it dry. 
Thanks for asking!


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## Dallas Gold

cgriffin said:


> No, no news yet.
> Thunder is doing great. Just saw that the part of his incision that is just about reaching into the groin area, is a bit irritated. I think that is from skin on skin contact. I put some neopredef powder on it to keep it dry.
> Thanks for asking!


I love the neo-pred-def powder--we are using it now for an adenoma on Toby's face that he scratched raw. Sigh. 

I'm glad Thunder is doing well, hope the irritation clears up.


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## hubbub

Hannah's oncologist always says he'd rather the lab take their time and be accurate than have him pushing them for a result. Fingers and toes continue to be crossed for you and Thunder


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## *Laura*

Hugs to you Thunder. ...thinking about you


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## cgriffin

Clean margins, yay!!!!!!!!!!!:artydude

What a relief! Both my vet and the surgeon said, there is no need for an oncology consult in their opinion. 
I am actually okay with that, given that I would most likely not chose radiation therapy to follow up with. 

Now, just monitoring for any future growths. I think Thunder is okay with that also 

Thank you!!


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## Jennifer1

Great news!!!!


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## cgriffin

I forgot:


To all of you: :You_Rock_ Thank you!


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## *Laura*

Clean margins ....such great news. Yahooooy


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## Lucky Penny

YAY! What wonderful news! I am so happy to read Thunder is doing well and the margins are clean!!!!!! You must be so happy! Give Thunder a hug for me!

I am a worry wart, and would still talk with the oncologist. I like having multiple opinions, especially one that specializes in cancer!


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## Buddy's mom forever

That's great. Good boy Thunder!


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## Lucky Penny

How is Thunder doing? I bet he doesn't even know he had surgery!


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## cgriffin

Hi, Lauren. Yep, he is back to his usual self. 
He had the sutures removed on Wednesday. He had a few spots where it was inflammed and swollen, but that was due to a suture reaction. He had a reaction after the first surgery also. But, it looks a lot better now and not swollen. 
He also had a bath, which he did not appreciate, lol. But he is happy not having to wear the cone anymore.


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## Buddy's mom forever

I am glad to read Thunder is doing so well and he is cone free. Now he can get back to enjoy the summer again.


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## Lucky Penny

Yay for Thunder! So happy he is healing great!


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## hubbub

cgriffin said:


> He also had a bath, which he did not appreciate, lol. But he is happy not having to wear the cone anymore.


Glad to see Thunder's doing so well and is cone free! Hannah needs a bath too and she is going to be quite unhappy when it happens too


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## *Laura*

How is Thunder feeling today Christa? I'm sure now the cone is a distant memory. 

(You are right....looking at Thunder is like looking into the future at an older Buddy...what mix is Thunder?)


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## Karen519

*Thunder*

So glad to read that Thunder is doing well.


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## cgriffin

Thank you all! 
Thunder is doing great, healing nicely. He was a bit more energetic when he was on pain meds. So, maybe he is getting arthritis, I will ask my vet about it. His thyroid level was normal, a bit to the lower side of normal. 
Laura, I have no idea what mix he is, I am saying "lab mix", because he does certainly have retriever in him. At the kill shelter he was listed as: 'curly coated retriever', which he obviously is not. He does have some curls, especially in the winter with the winter coat. He does not have the legs of a retriever and does not run like a retriever. His legs are more fine boned and thinner than a retriever's. His tail has a curl in it, does not have webbed feet, does not the retriever soft mouth. He will also give an intense stare, which so reminds me of a border collie and he runs like a border, but he is way too big for a border collie. So, who knows? lol


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## *Laura*

Whatever he is.....he's a very handsome boy


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## Lucky Penny

Thunder update?


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## cgriffin

Thank you for asking about Thunder, Lauren. 
Thunder is still doing great, being his normal self. 
I have to make an appointment for his geriatric profile again. His liver values were slightly up last time and he has been getting denamarin for it.


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## Karen519

*Thunder*



cgriffin said:


> Thank you for asking about Thunder, Lauren.
> Thunder is still doing great, being his normal self.
> I have to make an appointment for his geriatric profile again. His liver values were slightly up last time and he has been getting denamarin for it.


SO GLAD to read that Thunder is doing great and I love his NAME!


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## Lucky Penny

Happy to read all is well with him.  Hope he is enjoying this beautiful summer!


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## cgriffin

I thought I give an update on Thunder's geriatric profile.
All looks good, except his alkaline phosphatase is still a little elevated (liver value), and there is protein at 2 plus still present in the urine. 
I saw a different vet this time, my old vet was out of town. This vet recommended also for Thunder to remain on Denamarin. He also wants to run a urine protein-creatinine ratio to see if the protein is leaking directly through the kidneys.
I had told him about this being the second time that he had protein in his urine since I switched diets last year and if it was possible that the increased protein diet could cause protein present. He said, he is not sure, but if there are kidney issues, a higher protein diet would make matters worse. So, now, I am waiting on the next lab results. Luckily, the lab still had enough urine to run the other test. I will most likely know the result by Monday.
Other than that Thunder is going great. He is still licking his incision a lot, he is a chronic licker. There is one pink spot where a suture was tight and the vet prescribed Vetericyn for it. 
I will post once I know more.


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## Lucky Penny

Thank you for the update, I am glad he is healing great! Sending him some more positive thoughts!


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## Buddy's mom forever

I am glad Thunder is doing great. Hope you get good results back soon.


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## cgriffin

Thank you, Lauren and Buddy's Mom!
Just talked to my regular vet. The urine protein-creatinine ratio was normal, well within the normal range. So, nothing is going on with his kidneys, thank goodness!
I talked to him about the still elevated liver values. He looked over all the results and said, that ALT was increased about 6 weeks ago, but is well within normal range now. The ALK PHOs is still elevated but not much. He said, I may not need to keep Thunder on Denamarin now. He said, he sees older dogs with ALK PHOS elevated due to other things, like Cushings. I am to keep an eye on Cushing's Disease symptoms. I can do that, so far Thunder has none of the symptoms.
I am really hesistant to stop the Denamarin though. If the ALT was normal now, does that not mean that the Denamarin is doing it's job? Anyway, for now, I think, he will stay on Denamarin, liver values will be repeated in 3 months.


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## Buddy's mom forever

It sounds like good results. I really don't know about drug you mentioned but I remember it is in your background so you know what are you doing. Good luck.


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## cgriffin

Thank you, Buddy's Mom!
Denamarin is a liver enzyme supplement that supports the liver and it's functions.


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## Karen519

*Thunder*



cgriffin said:


> Thank you, Lauren and Buddy's Mom!
> Just talked to my regular vet. The urine protein-creatinine ratio was normal, well within the normal range. So, nothing is going on with his kidneys, thank goodness!
> I talked to him about the still elevated liver values. He looked over all the results and said, that ALT was increased about 6 weeks ago, but is well within normal range now. The ALK PHOs is still elevated but not much. He said, I may not need to keep Thunder on Denamarin now. He said, he sees older dogs with ALK PHOS elevated due to other things, like Cushings. I am to keep an eye on Cushing's Disease symptoms. I can do that, so far Thunder has none of the symptoms.
> I am really hesistant to stop the Denamarin though. If the ALT was normal now, does that not mean that the Denamarin is doing it's job? Anyway, for now, I think, he will stay on Denamarin, liver values will be repeated in 3 months.


SOUNDS like Thunder really got good results!! Will continUe praying and please keep us posted!!


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## hubbub

Great to see Thunder's improving day by day! I hope his numbers stabilize and he continues to enjoy every moment with you and the crew


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## Lucky Penny

So happy to read that Thunder has great results! Brought a smile to my day!


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## cgriffin

Thank you everybody!


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## *Laura*

Christa .... great news that Thunder is doing well


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## cgriffin

My nephew, wo was visiting from Germany took this picture of Thunder last month. I love this picture!


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## *Laura*

He's so gorgeous. I love his white face


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## PrincessDi

Your Thunder is such a beautiful boy!! So glad to read that he's doing well. Keeping him in our thoughts and prayers that he continues to do well and you're able to make many more memories to treasure.


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## hubbub

I agree that Thunder is quite handsome! His fur is SOOO shiny - I'm jealous


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## Buddy's mom forever

He is beautiful boy indeed. I am glad he is doing great.


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## Dallas Gold

I'm happy handsome Thunder is doing so well!


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## Lucky Penny

Thunder is so handsome! Thank you for sharing a photo of him!


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## Phoenix Fund

*The Phoenix Fund - help us cure cancer in Goldens*

Friends,
Our gorgeous 3 year old boy, Phoenix, was diagnosed with fibrosarcoma today.

This is tragic irony. My son started a canine cancer project called "The Phoenix Fund" to raise money for canine cancer research in Goldens for his Senior high school project last January. There is an article in Tractor Supply's OUT HERE magazine ( fall 2016 edition, p. 29 ) describing the project. 
The money my son raises from T-shirt sales will go to the Morris Animal Foundation in Colorado. This foundation is doing a longitudinal study on 3,000 Goldens to determine why they are contracting cancer at such a high rate.
Please see his facebook page facebook.com/thephoenixfund.

Never did I think my precious dog boy would contract cancer - and certainly not at such a young age. And Lucky Penny, thank you for your inspiring and heartfelt posts about living for the moment. I will throw his tennis ball every day..no matter how tired I am.


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## Lucky Penny

So sad to read about your boy, Phoenix. My thoughts go out to you and your family. What a wonderful thing your son is doing! Thank you so much for sharing that with us. Yes, it is so important to live in the moment. Throw that tennis ball every day for him


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