# Low thyroid causes not thyroid related?



## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

Can you give us any more info? A medical crisis can affect a thyroid test.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Blood work sent to Dr. Dodds show decreased levels of T3 and T4 with Free T4 at the low end of normal (value .90, normal is .85- 2.3) and low end of normal for Free T3 as well. TGAA negative. Interpretation that the decreased levels were likely due to non-thyroidal illness. Dog has not been on any medication in the last month or through any medical crisis. Appears healthy. I was told to check to make sure anything isn't 'smoldering.' What could be smoldering?


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## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

Was this what Dr. Dodds said? Did she know the blood work was from a Golden?(Like they they mark that on the form they sent with blood work)


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Well it was sent to Hemopet. When I called I received a message that Dr. Dodds was out of the office until the 18th so I sent an email. Email basically said the same thing...thought that the low levels might be a sign of something else. Signed in her name. Mentioned something might be smoldering and to run other tests. So I wonder what problems could cause this? She's had no vaccines in over a year, no medication in over a month, is active and appears relatively healthy.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

Basically any illness can cause decreased thyroid levels-everything from allergies to diabetes to cushing's disease. I doubt if she has anything serious, but allergies wouldn't be a stretch in many goldens. Even stress can decrease the levels if I remember my physiology correctly.


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## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

Do you mind if I check this out for you? I might need you to PM me a little more info.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

IowaGold said:


> Basically any illness can cause decreased thyroid levels-everything from allergies to diabetes to cushing's disease. I doubt if she has anything serious, but allergies wouldn't be a stretch in many goldens. Even stress can decrease the levels if I remember my physiology correctly.


So the million dollar question...how far should I go searching for ghosts? I just wanted to rule out thyroid problems but now I don't feel like I have and it has given me more questions than answers. I have yet to call my regular vet because I wanted to hear from Dodds first. 

Now, I can say she was spayed a little over a month ago before the blood draw. I was worried this could affect the results so I asked a few veterinarians before the blood draw and I was told it shouldn't affect her thyroid. Should I retest in a few months? Run to the vet and run a complete blood panel and urinalysis etc?

T4 1.06 Ref. 1.4-3.5
T3 21 Red 30-70
Free T4 .90 Ref .85-2.3
Free T3 1.8 Ref. 1.6-3.5


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Claire's Friend said:


> Do you mind if I check this out for you? I might need you to PM me a little more info.


Sure! I am a little baffled here.


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## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

Seems like a pretty clear case of low thyroid in a Golden to me. So I am confused too. I'll see what I can find out for you .


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## hvgoldens4 (Nov 25, 2009)

GoldenSail said:


> So the million dollar question...how far should I go searching for ghosts? I just wanted to rule out thyroid problems but now I don't feel like I have and it has given me more questions than answers. I have yet to call my regular vet because I wanted to hear from Dodds first.
> 
> Now, I can say she was spayed a little over a month ago before the blood draw. I was worried this could affect the results so I asked a few veterinarians before the blood draw and I was told it shouldn't affect her thyroid. Should I retest in a few months? Run to the vet and run a complete blood panel and urinalysis etc?
> 
> ...


Spaying absolutely has an effect on the dogs thyroid levels. Estrogen is needed to regulate thyroid and when a dog is spayed, they no longer have that source of estrogen because we do an oviohysterectomy on dogs-meaning all reproductive organs are removed. 

How old is this dog?? My vet, who is now retired, used to talk about "old spayed bitch syndrome". What he essentially meant by this was that when a female dog had been in tact for many years and had the estrogen levels to help regulate the thyroid levels that many times, shortly after spaying, you would see a drop in the thyroid levels. We don't see this profound effect in male dogs because they can still produce testosterone in their brains after they are neutered.

She is absolutely borderline low right now. I might give her a couple more months for her body to try to regulate itself unless you are seeing symptoms of hypothyroidism, in which case, I would get her started on meds. 

From what you are saying, I don't think she has anything else "smoldering". If she is an older dog, with her having some low normal results, this wouldn't be typical thyroid disease.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

We got a euthyroid notation once with Toby from MSU--other labs were perfect and it was a mystery, even after the interpretation. Our vet did a trial run with us with supplementation and we saw improvement in his low thyroid symptoms (increased weight, changes in coat and fur, a recurrent hot spot in the same spot when he never had them before). Later tests revealed true hypothyroidism. Our vet thinks we caught the disease in its earliest stages. His only other "underlying" conditions were digestive enzyme deficiencies and his congenital cataract which was treated with topical steroid drops--doubt those were it.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

The levels are so close to normal I'd probably wait a month and recheck before I did anything else.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

She's a young dog...only 2.5 years old.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

My lab mix has been testing on the low side of normal of thyroid hormones for the past year. His activity had decreased so the vet and I wanted to make sure he does not have hypothyroidism, but nope he doesn't. The values have not decreased in that year, actually increased a tad bit. His activity level has increased some now. So, no clue what happened. So, really, I am not worried about it now. Toby, my GR always tests on the low side of normal also, but no other signs. Both my dogs are seniors though. Had the same thing happen with my previous senior golden, always testing on the low normal side, but never needing meds for it.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

I thought that low normal was too low for goldens? Particularly a young dog? Am I wrong?

Right now I am wondering if it is best to wait a few months and re-test. But then, I am also wondering if I need to take her to the vet for a full work-up.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I don't know. I think every vet has a different opinion on that.
My sister's GR had hypothyroidism at about age 2, I believe. He was on meds for the rest of his life. He died at age 13 of a brain tumor.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I was thinking that those hormone numbers might be iffy if she was recently spayed and spayed as an adult. I would definitely discuss these numbers with your vet and discuss a good time to recheck. 

And my vet said that stress itself is either a cause of lower numbers or a symptom of lower numbers. At least two vets that I discussed Jacks' numbers said this when I brought up the fact that he went from being a confident and happy young dog to a dog who was afraid of going outside. 

I wonder if there is something you can safely add to her diet to boost her numbers without putting her on thyroid meds. Something with iodine in it?


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

You should never try to medicate on your own. Giving iodine supplement is a bad idea. Sorry.
A human story about iodine: My 'smart' sister has been taking iodine pills per her doctor's instructions for many years because of nodules in her thyroid. One day, her daughter was feeling around her neck and wondering, and she was showing some fatique, etc. So, her momma decided to give her daughter iodine pills just in case. To make a long story short, my niece became hyperthyroid, had heart problems related to that and eventually had to have her thyroid removed. Thanks mom!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I was actually thinking about something like this... 

Organic Kelp | Life Line Pet Nutrition

It's what I was considering adding to my guy's diet but I need to ask my vet if it would cause any problems with his thyroid meds.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Of course I have wondered about the spay. Still do. The vets I asked said it shouldn't affect them...of course now that they are low they are probably going to change their mind on that one


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

Megora: Interesting.
Yeah, I would ask the vet first, too.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I would wait until Dr Dodds is in the office and speak to her personally, from everything I have heard, she is more than happy to discuss an evaluation with the owner. Find out from her what the "smoldering" issue statement is all about.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

I would recommend retesting in 6-8 weeks. Do I think that a fairly recent spay could have some effect on this? Probably. And I would expect that those effects would be transitory (so hopefully a retest would show that things are back to normal). I think it would be very difficult to "prove" that a lack of hormones due to the spay is causing a long-term thyroid depression since we don't know what her levels were pre-spay. Did she run "low normal" before the spay? Maybe. 

As to the question of isn't "low normal" too low for goldens: I would have to think that if Hemopet/Dr. Dodds truly believes that the baseline that labs such as MSU use are set too low to accurately diagnose a certain breed, that she has her own baselines set to what she thinks is normal and low for that breed. So by this logic, a dog that is in the lower ranges of "normal", _based on HemoPet's own baselines_, *is* normal for the breed in question.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

This is Hemopet's optimal levels for goldens:

*Adult Optimal Levels* 

T4 1.50 – 3.80 mg/dL 


Free T4 0.74 - 2.33 ng/dL

T3 40 – 70 ng/dL 

Free T3 1.6 - 3.5 pg/mL


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Barb those levels are not exactly what I was given.

Free T4 0.85 - 2.30
T3 30 - 70
T4 1.4 - 3.5
Free T3 1.6 - 3.5

According to Hemopet's results she is low for T3 and T4, and close to the borderline for Free T3 and Free T4. But even with the numbers you listed she is still low in T3 and T4. Dodds said she is low T3 and suboptimal T4.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

...I think I will call her tomorrow when she's back in office. I think retesting might be best. I really didn't expect a low thyroid, but now I can't rule it out.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

The numbers I got from Hemopet were _slightly _different still... but still very much in the ballpark.

I'm looking at the "Case Specific" numbers, not the "General Range."

T4 1.40-3.40
Free T4 0.80-2.20
T3 30-70
Free T3 1.6-3.5

If it's just a matter of a day or two, I'd probably wait and talk to Dr. Dodds. I'd ask her exactly what she had in mind with the 'smoldering' statement. (I'd ask her about the spay possibly affecting the results, too.) At least maybe she can point you in a certain direction if you need to follow up with your vet.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Megora said:


> I was actually thinking about something like this...
> 
> Organic Kelp | Life Line Pet Nutrition
> 
> It's what I was considering adding to my guy's diet but I need to ask my vet if it would cause any problems with his thyroid meds.


Barkley went to a holistic acupuncture vet who prescribed all sorts of natural things, homeopathic remedies and such for a variety of conditions. Before we got his thyroid tests back I asked her if there was anything I could do "naturally" instead and she told me unequivocally the best thing I could do, should be test as hypothyroid, was get the prescription supplement. The natural remedies do nothing. Thought I'd pass that along. He tested low, we started the prescription supplement, and he maintained a good normal level for the rest of his life.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

In Dr. Dodds book ( and with her dx of our Maggie), not only is breed considered but also age, sex and whether they are spayed/neutered. I highly recommend her book, "The Canine Thyroid Epidemic".


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Dallas Gold said:


> Barkley went to a holistic acupuncture vet who prescribed all sorts of natural things, homeopathic remedies and such for a variety of conditions. Before we got his thyroid tests back I asked her if there was anything I could do "naturally" instead and she told me unequivocally the best thing I could do, should be test as hypothyroid, was get the prescription supplement. The natural remedies do nothing. Thought I'd pass that along. He tested low, we started the prescription supplement, and he maintained a good normal level for the rest of his life.


Even when a dog is not necessarily hypothyroid? 

I was interested in kelp because of my guy's hips. I heard it can help...? As far as thyroid, I've heard about with people they recommend kelp or certain veggies?


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## w00f (Nov 4, 2011)

For an older dog, who needs a bit of a boost for the thyroid, I think a nice supplement with kelp in it is a great idea. However, for a young dog, I would hold off so that it can be determined exactly what is going on.

This could be hypothryodism at a very early stage, but I think Dodds' thinking is that, if this is the case, the large majority of young dogs with low thyroid will have an elevated TgAA. 

Several diseases can cause low thyroid. Tick diseases commonly do this too.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Megora said:


> Even when a dog is not necessarily hypothyroid?
> 
> I was interested in kelp because of my guy's hips. I heard it can help...? As far as thyroid, I've heard about with people they recommend kelp or certain veggies?


Woof's response is very good.


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## Goldendancer (Oct 22, 2008)

I am looking to buy iodine potassium iodide or SSKI for thyroid support. I was reading that hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism can be reversed. The iodine levels are none in dog food. And today's dogs are very deficient in iodine which results in numerous health issues and greatly increased risk of cancer in dogs.

I am also looking to buy the non colored iodine to put on skin lesions.

I was wondering has anyone tried either one or which ones did they try?

Both of us have hypothyroidism so reading that iodine deficiency is a big cause
of hypothyroidism in both humans and dogs. 

Here is a very informative article on iodine, very helpful info too.

Dr Sircus.com iodine-rescue

Iodine to the Rescue | Dr. Sircus

Just wanted to see what others had tried with their Goldens for reducing hypothyroidism and what kind of iodine for removing any skin lesions as I read
putting iodine on any type of skin lesions, moles, several times a day will cause them to eventually dry up and fall off and leave healthy skin behind.

What have others tried?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I think if you have questions like this - you need to consult with a vet before experimenting on your dogs. 

Hypothyroidism is fairly easy and inexpensive to control and treat. Go to the vet always.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

I have to agree with Megora, you should always consult with your Vet before trying anything especially if you read it some where on the Internet. Not everything you read or see on the Internet if factual. 

I wouldn't risk my dogs health by trying something without consulting with my Vet first.


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## Goldendancer (Oct 22, 2008)

She has been on thyroid synthetic for years. I want to get her off of the thyroid synthetic hormone and read that iodine reverses hypothyroidism so in several months can get off of the synthetic thyroid hormone.

Conventional vets are clueless, all they know is to give a prescription synthetic thyroid. I want to get her on either a bio identical thyroid hormone or reverse the hypothyroidism with iodine.

I will try a holistic vet 2 hours one way drive and 2 hours back - 4 hour drive takes up the day, but was hoping some others may also wanted to improve their golden's health and get them off of this synthetic thyroid hormone.

Since iodine deficiency is very common in dogs now and one of the underlying causes of increased cancer rates as well as hypothyroidism and numerous other diseases and or illnesses.

I am looking to improve her health and not have to depend on a synthetic hormone by conventional vets that are clueless in overall holistic health.

Looking for others who have also used iodine supplements.



Vets around here are only good for emergency care, but are clueless to holistic care. They purely are looking for what is the most profitable treatment and don't want to help reverse hypothyroidism because that is not profitable for them.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

I did a quick search, there are several in your area, you may not have to make a 2 hour drive each way unless you prefer the one that is that far away.


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