# Adding Whistle to Recall



## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

I've been working on Ella's recall and it is slowly improving. So far I call her name and act all excited, then when I see she's running towards me I say or call out "come."

What I would like to do is add a whistle, so she will come either with the word come or when whistled. How can I go about this with causing minimal confusion for her?

Thanks,

Katie & Ella


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

When you want to add a new cue for a behavior, just do it right before the cue you already have. The dog will learn that the cue she knows ("come!") will come right after the new cue (the whistle) and will typically start offering the behavior (recall) right after the new cue (the whistle), before you even have a chance to use the old cue ("come!"). When she does that, don't use the second cue and reward the behavior.

So just whistle before you say "come" and reward her for a while for that. And when she starts to anticipate, you can just stop saying "come" and use only the whistle.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

This is the easiest of all to teach, if she has the recall down! As noted above, just add the whistle call (tweet, tweet, tweet) to the verbal call. Then after a few days of that, do the whistle only, if she does not start back on the whistle, quickly do the verbal call. She will get it quickly...

If Field training we also use the whistle for 'Sit', so we can sit them anywhere. It is taught the same way, but only one single tweet!


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

Thank you! Ok start with this. Just wanted to make sure I wouldn't confuse her.

Right now she's at the point where she knows the recall command, but it isn't anywhere near foolproof. She still finds too many things that are distractions.


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## Jamm (Mar 28, 2010)

I found when Joey was a puppy I did our family whistle a lot to help him know when to come.. now that he is more mature I never need the whistle.. just a "Joey, Come!" and he turns on a dime.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

ktkins7 said:


> Thank you! Ok start with this. Just wanted to make sure I wouldn't confuse her.
> 
> Right now she's at the point where she knows the recall command, but it isn't anywhere near foolproof. She still finds too many things that are distractions.


Are you using a long lead to, reinforce his return? We use either a 30' or 50' lead (usually a piece of rope we tie a latch onto). It is a bit difficult to keep from standing on it when you throw something for the dog, but in time it gets easier.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

I was using a 30' lead that wore out now I'm using a 50' one.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

Perfect....!


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

What I've been doing at this point is trying to only call her when I think that she will listen to the command. I try not to call if I definitely know her distraction is too great. But when I do call and she doesn't come, then I reel her in with the line. Right now our list of distractions is still long. At the top are people and other dogs. I've got her to come with squirrels, chipmunks, etc, but I think it's still hit or miss. I've noticed if I wait for a minute or two at this point for her to get the craziness out of her (she apparently has a high prey drive) then I'm usually able to get her to come on command. Our new nemesis is blowing leaves. Like I said, it's still work in progress.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

I start with no distraction until they are 90% or better, including off lead...takes a long time a few minutes every day, depending on the age. Then I will start with short runs with distractions, sometimes as simple as something laying on the lawn they want to go smell. If I recall and the are not immediately coming, I have the rope tight and give it a med jerk, so they recall what they are suppose to do.

I kind of recall that you prefer not to use a pinch collar, but they are wonderful for teaching this command, of course they must be used properly....my standard comments are included for your information below. I really believe in these tools for training. 


Best advice I see in these posts is to go with your pup to an obedience class, and not at the local Petco...find a trainer not working in some retail store. That being said, our trainers have always recommended pinch collars vs. choke chains or harnesses. All can be misused and harm the dog.
The downside on pinch collars is that traditionally, the act of putting them on the dog and getting the latch to hold properly is a challenge. My field trainer recently put me on to a lady that makes a new style pinch collar, that eliminates the difficulty of putting them on and it has no latch...you can look at them at www.lolalimited.net. They call them "Secret Power" collars...but they are a well-engineered covered pinch style collar. Dogs will NOT pull when being walked on lead with these collars. It is an instant fix for this behavior. 
Be advised that some people do not advocate using a pinch style collar on the dog, and to their credit, if not properly used, they can injure the dog’s skin and also cause behavioral problems. But, if used properly by a trained user, they are magic in helping you train the dog to heal, sit, come, etc.
*But do not use these without a trainer teaching you how to train with these collars....good luck*


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

Like I said, if I think there's a good chance she won't come then I don't try it. I do have to get more efficient at controlling the longer lead for when she doesn't come. I've only had the longer one like two weeks.

I actually did get a pinch collar from a trainer that did a private session at my house. She showed me how to take it on and off and how to use it. So far I've only used it for loose leash walking. So your suggesting use it for recall?


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

Yes, but be careful, if you accidently are standing on the line when she goes out, is might give her a correction, when it is not wanted. Again, I keep the initial recall training with pinch collar on a short distance. I take them outside and walk with them very slow, letting them get distracted and start smelling around, usually 10 to 15 feet at most. Then when they are distracted, I give the command 'here' and a light tug on the collar. When they return I sit them and give them tons of love. I will continue short sessions like this over a week or two slowly letting them wonder further and further. Most important is the slow relaxed pace and the extra love reward they get when the return to you on command. You can include the whistle on this also, you should see the dog get this fairly quickly. It just take repetition and time.....

Good Luck...by the way, the pinch collar I noted earlier does not have a latching mechanism, it is much easier to work with....just FYI

Good Luck


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

ktkins7 said:


> Like I said, if I think there's a good chance she won't come then I don't try it. I do have to get more efficient at controlling the longer lead for when she doesn't come. I've only had the longer one like two weeks.
> 
> I actually did get a pinch collar from a trainer that did a private session at my house. She showed me how to take it on and off and how to use it. So far I've only used it for loose leash walking. So your suggesting use it for recall?


Since Ella already shows a tendency to generalize correction (I was reading the invisible fence thread), I would 100% avoid the pinch collar, especially for recall. An accidental correction could undermine dozens of positive repetitions and cause more generalized anxiety.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

tippykayak said:


> Since Ella already shows a tendency to generalize correction (I was reading the invisible fence thread), I would 100% avoid the pinch collar, especially for recall. An accidental correction could undermine dozens of positive repetitions and cause more generalized anxiety.


Just curious, do you ever use a pinch collar or e collar for training?

Have you ever owned an invisible fence?


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

goldlover68 said:


> Yes, but be careful, if you accidently are standing on the line when she goes out, is might give her a correction, when it is not wanted. Again, I keep the initial recall training with pinch collar on a short distance. I take them outside and walk with them very slow, letting them get distracted and start smelling around, usually 10 to 15 feet at most. Then when they are distracted, I give the command 'here' and a light tug on the collar. When they return I sit them and give them tons of love. I will continue short sessions like this over a week or two slowly letting them wonder further and further. Most important is the slow relaxed pace and the extra love reward they get when the return to you on command. You can include the whistle on this also, you should see the dog get this fairly quickly. It just take repetition and time.....
> 
> Good Luck...by the way, the pinch collar I noted earlier does not have a latching mechanism, it is much easier to work with....just FYI
> 
> Good Luck


I could see where this would work with other dogs, but just knowing my own dog my gut is telling me this probably wouldn't with so great with Ella. Maybe a slight tug with a flat collar but with a pinch collar she may try to dig in and stay in place. It us working with walking, just my gut is telling me it probably won't work with her for this. I think she would backwards before going forward.

Thank you though.


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## Leslie B (Mar 17, 2011)

I never use the pinch with long line training. The pinch correction must be given with precision and it is impossible to get that on the long line. 

Use the flat collar and don't be afraid to reel her in quickly. No slight correction and wait for her to meander back to you. We call it "fishing" as the goal is to keep tension on the line at first for the entire recall. 

It is tweet, tweet, tweet, Come and start reeling hand over hand as quick as you can. The leash will flap in her face some and it will not be a comfortable experience for her. Some will try to go sideways to avoid the leash and some try to sit down. Just keep pulling. She will get up and come back to you with pressure. The goal is to get her to try to race back to you as quick as she can to AVOID being pulled in. Lots of praise when she gets to you at first and pay no attention to her if she displays any discomfort at being pulled in. When she is getting back to you before you have much of the leash pulled in you know she has is moving in the right direction and you can quit pulling. Those that dilly dally, get back on the long line for more fishing!

Good Luck!


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## Martin (Feb 21, 2011)

Leslie B said:


> It is tweet, tweet, tweet, Come and start reeling hand over hand as quick as you can. The leash will flap in her face some and it will not be a comfortable experience for her. Some will try to go sideways to avoid the leash and some try to sit down. Just keep pulling. She will get up and come back to you with pressure. The goal is to get her to try to race back to you as quick as she can to AVOID being pulled in. Lots of praise when she gets to you at first and pay no attention to her if she displays any discomfort at being pulled in. When she is getting back to you before you have much of the leash pulled in you know she has is moving in the right direction and you can quit pulling. Those that dilly dally, get back on the long line for more fishing!
> 
> Good Luck!


I've always heard that recall should be kept as positive and fun as possible, even more so than other commands. The rational behind it was that when recall is unpleasant, they try to avoid it.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Martin said:


> I've always heard that recall should be kept as positive and fun as possible, even more so than other commands. The rational behind it was that when recall is unpleasant, they try to avoid it.


I'm with you on this one. When we use the long line, it is to prevent the dog from self-rewarding for blowing you off. You gently pull the dog away from the distraction and try to reestablish a connection so you can reward the dog for connecting and returning.

Reeling in can make it an unpleasant experience to come back to you, which can be counterproductive. I've had to help retrain a lot of dogs who come back slowly or shy a little from the owner, and these are not mean or harsh owners. However, what they did have in common was that they punished (accidentally, usually) the dog during the return or the finish. Common errors are being annoyed at the dog as they come back (they pick it up, even if you don't say much), grabbing the collar every time, and reeling the dog in. You don't want to be making the experience unpleasant right as the dog is doing what you want (coming back to you). 

You want to give the dog an opportunity to make a good choice and then reward that.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

goldlover68 said:


> Just curious, do you ever use a pinch collar or e collar for training?
> 
> Have you ever owned an invisible fence?


You are not curious, because you already know the answers to these questions. This is bait to argue, not genuine questioning. Give the OP whatever advice you like and feel free to contradict anything I say. It's an open forum. But don't make it personal, please.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

The way I've been doing it is giving her the command and when all goes as planned she is running back to me. She gets a "yes" and lots of praise (think mini party) and sometimes a treat. One problem I've found with this so far is that once she is praised she has a tendency to go back to what she is doing before being released. I haven't made her sit because I don't want her to think that she is being rewarded for the sit instead of the recall.

On the instances she doesn't come, I've been giving a little tug on the line, just enough to get her attention. If that doesn't work, I do reel her in but not so fast that the line is flapping around her or hitting her at all. For example, yesterday I didn't realize that she had seen a squirrel and did the whistle and come. She looked at me then looked back at the squirrel. I think I said "hey, over here," and gave just enough of a tug for her to feel it and she came running over, treat and mini party.

She knows the command, right now it is in the process of building it against distractions. The only time I had to reel her in yesterday was when the neighbor's dog was coming out of their driveway. I do feel this method is making progress even though it is slowly proofing against the distractions. A month ago she would not have come when she saw the squirrel. The squirrel is still no where near fool proof, but this was the first time she did come with this distraction so I'm going to celebrate even the small steps.


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## Atis (Jul 8, 2014)

Something we were taught and always do is to have our boys wait outside the kitchen while preparing meals. When ready we whistle three times and call them to come, they always do come, it's a meal after all and it makes for a very strong correlation of a whistle and the call "come" resulting in good things. When outside a recall is always a whistle and a friendly excited voice calling come. Whether late or instant the arrival is always pleasant and often includes a treat.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Like most field training there is a progression from step to another, building upon the previous lesson. (learning to walk before trying to run.) 
I think you may find more success starting with the "sit" command first. You can teach this with the dog on lead at your side. As you're walking give the sit command and sit the dog. heel forward for a few more steps, give the sit command and a single whistle tweet, and repeat the sit command. (Sit, tweet, Sit) Heel forward and repeat the process. When the lightbulb starts to go on, transition to Tweet,Sit. When that is going well just use the Tweet and drop the verbal Sit.

Now that you have the dog sitting, you can begin to undertake the recall. Sit the dog and walk out about 20 to 30 feet. give the recall command, a quick tug on the lead, and two or three tweets on the whistle. Sit the dog again and repeat the process as before when you taught the sit command. It is far easier to teach recall with the dog sitting under control at a short distance, rather than with the dog in motion sniffing or chasing butterflies. you need the dogs attention focused on you.


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