# HOLDING A LINE



## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I decided to work on Thor's lining. I am currently in New Hampshire and I am able to train somewhat at a local state park. So I decided to use ladder blinds as one drill for this. I am training by myself and it is hot but we are doing our best. Today is Day 2 and I see improvement already. On a positive note, Thor is taking my casts well. 
If I get out earlier when it is cooler I will work on distance.


----------



## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

I would not do any ladder blinds. It is an old school drill not used much any more because it encourages hunting on a blind.
Here is a good article by Danny Farmer
Starting Cold Blinds by Danny Farmer_1.pdf


_"If you train a young dog for momentum, precision will arrive. If you train for precision, demanding perfection, momentum will depart." - Rex Carr _ A good thing to keep in mind when training on blinds.


----------



## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

SRW said:


> I would not do any ladder blinds. It is an old school drill not used much any more because it encourages hunting on a blind.
> Here is a good article by Danny Farmer
> Starting Cold Blinds by Danny Farmer_1.pdf


I don't know about everyone else, but that link took me to "Other Pets" within this forum ....

While not something that I use frequently, I'll use ladder blinds if my dog is flaring when running a tight line to another blind (or even on a mark). And the way that I do it, there's no hunting on the blinds because they are in mowed grass with big bumpers, so they can see the destination.

gdgli, what element of lining are you working on, i.e., better initial lines/maintaining a line on the side of a hill/carrying a line for a longer distance/not flaring a prior line/not flaring a gunner/not flaring the fall of a mark/etc.?


----------



## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Maybe this will work


----------



## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

SRW

Your post brought a smile to my face. I probably have many techniques/drills that are old school. I am probably much older than you suspect. My dog training pre dates ecollars and includes a field trial tradition on Long Island that includes big names that are most likely unrecognizable to you. I am glad that I had this upbringing in training.

Just because a drill is old school does not mean it is no good. When I trained with two well respected pros down South I was pleased to see some "old school drills". I personally evaluate a drill by how successful it is in teaching what I want to teach. In the rare occasion when I run a training session for my club I am surprised when I get a small group line up to do a drill that they have never seen before. 

Ladder blinds are just another tool in the tool box. I am glad that my tool box is as filled as it is. And this drill seems to be doing what I want it to do.

Along with my age comes wisdom. I once worked with a carpenter and we had built a woodshed for a home on Lake Winnepesaukee in New Hampshire. When we were done the carpenter (a master carpenter) noticed something wrong---his measurements were off on one side and presented as a lean in a wall. He undid the wall, cut the nails and cut off 1/4 inch off each beam and refastened to make it right. He then told me "I needed to fix this. A poor carpenter may have tried to blame his tools. The tools did not cause this failure." Wise words. So if a drill (the tool) is not working, the problem may not be in the tool. And like the carpenter, perhaps the work needs to be undone. And fixed.

Like FT, I do not get any hunting with ladder blinds. BTW, when you try to fix one problem you risk creating another problem. One day I will post about the dog that was blowing off sit whistles. The dog was shot. Guess what training issue this created.


----------



## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

FT

My concern right now is carrying a line for a longer distance. I haven't done a blind running along a hillside for a long time and I am reluctant to climb hills to do them now since my knee is wrecked and I will be getting a total knee replacement in four weeks, I don't need to walk hillsides to plant blinds right now. The hillside wasn't a problem for my dog but then again I wasn't running long distances.
In the past week I have run blinds that were somewhat uphill. This included running an angle across a dirt road. Also an unwanted distraction of people suddenly appearing in my blind field. This was dealt with by handling. The dog took all my casts. Again not big distances. Any faults with the initial line were caused by me. 
As soon as I get to know my go pro I can try videos.


----------



## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

gdgli said:


> Just because a drill is old school does not mean it is no good.


Agreed, "old school" wasn't a good choice of terms. Many great drills are very old and most drills, old and new, will probably cause problems if overused. 



gdgli said:


> The hillside wasn't a problem for my dog but then again I wasn't running long distances.


Hills can be a huge problem for dogs and handlers that train mostly on flat terrain. Even getting the dog to pick out the guns can be difficult.


----------



## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

gdgli said:


> FT
> 
> My concern right now is carrying a line for a longer distance. I haven't done a blind running along a hillside for a long time and I am reluctant to climb hills to do them now since my knee is wrecked and I will be getting a total knee replacement in four weeks, I don't need to walk hillsides to plant blinds right now. The hillside wasn't a problem for my dog but then again I wasn't running long distances.
> In the past week I have run blinds that were somewhat uphill. This included running an angle across a dirt road. Also an unwanted distraction of people suddenly appearing in my blind field. This was dealt with by handling. The dog took all my casts. Again not big distances. Any faults with the initial line were caused by me.
> As soon as I get to know my go pro I can try videos.


gdgli,

*GOOD LUCK with that knee replacement!* The most common complaint that I've heard about knee replacements is that the recipient wishes that they had done it sooner! And hey, by the time you've finished rehab, you'll have that GoPro Operator's Manual memorized! 

I'll use sight blinds to stretch out a dog's lines ... at first, I'll use a stake that is visible from the line. The dog must, must go exactly where they commanded to go ... regardless of what's in their path. After just a few days of sight blinds, I'll set up the stake, maybe use a smaller stake, so that the dog doesn't see it until they have gone maybe 25 yards, then 50 yards, then stretch it to 100 yards. The idea is to get them into the habit of running in the direction which you have pointed them ... these blinds seem to help and also give the dog confidence in doing so. 
I don't specifically recall how Thor is with regard to quickly stopping on a whistle and casting, but if he's a bit loose on either one (or both) of those, you can't let him get too used to lining blinds because that would obviously exacerbate those problems.

There are other drills, but that one came to mind. (Also, extending the spokes on a wagon wheel drill may help.)

FTGoldens


----------



## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I should have done my knee a couple of years ago but I am stubborn. Now I find myself stumbling in the field while carrying a gun. Time for the knee surgery.

Thor is really pretty good at stopping on the whistle. And surprisingly to me takes my casts quite well. You have told me about the shorter stake drill before but unfortunately I had forgotten it. On my next trip to Lowe's I will buy a couple of closet poles to make my short stakes.

For Thor's sight blinds---I have had him out doing maybe 200 yards. I always like to introduce some feature. On one particular blind I ran him at angle across a road, over a couple of small hills and then several yards to the blind. He ran it fast and straight as an arrow. What I hope for is this kind of performance on all his blinds.


----------



## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

gdgli said:


> I will buy a couple of closet poles to make my short stakes.


Look at the electric fence posts at a Tractor Supply or Farm Fleet store.


----------



## Edward Lee Nelson (Jan 2, 2017)

I used to do ladder drills a long time ago. I stopped and started doing lining drills at a very young age before the T with white buckets on top of stakes, that way the momentum is already established when I have to stop the dog on the T. I would do them out to about 200 yrds. After the T etc I move to Danny Farmers system of blinds mentioned above. I have blind poles but with young dogs I use the stakes from Tractor Supply and tie orange tape on top flapping so the dog runs with their head up.


----------

