# Chippendale Front/Queen Anne Front



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Although I have never heard these terms, I would assume that you are referring to "fiddle front" or a front that is Bulldog-like?
The dog elbows out and the pastern (wrist) turns in?
This could be chrondrodysplasia, which is a genetic disorder, present in adult carriers as an auto-somal or simple recessive gene. It is seen frequently in Malamutes, Boxers and Goldens.


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## SLIPPER (May 2, 2008)

*Fiddle Front*

Correct - another name for it is fiddle front. Just depends where you are in the world I suppose.


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

Glad that got cleared up...from the title...well my mind went to bachelorette parties!:doh:

I think I need more coffee.

Jan, Seamus, Gracie & Phoebe


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Wow, I haven't seen that in a very long time. When I first started out in Goldens, my very first girl had a slight "fiddle front." It was definitely in her lines, and was more of the way the muscle fit the bone, and how the muscle developed, than it was an actual curvature of the bone or out at the elbows. My mentor at the time told me that it was "in the lines (which were very popular on the East Coast at that time)", and that most judges knew it, recognized it for what it was and that it would not affect her ability to be shown. It didn't and she finished  but as I said, this was very mild, the bone itself was straight and the elbows were not out. It was most definitely the muscle and muscling (and some illusion with coat as well) that gave her that look.

If the bone itself is curving, as described by PG-much more serious and not anything that I would want to breed, and could present severe problems later. Friends had a puppy with this look. The vet confirmed that the bones of the upper leg were growing differently, causing the bowing. It was very severe and surgery was required.

However, at 8 months, her pasterns could be weak as well, which can contribute to this. Coat can also give the illusion of this-my boy Creed (in my avatar) needs to have the coat on his front legs trimmed because of this. He has what is almost a "pad" of hair growing on the outside, upper front portion of his leg.

Lots of different things could be going on here. Can you tell what is happening with her?


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Phoebe said:


> Glad that got cleared up...from the title...well my mind went to bachelorette parties!:doh:
> 
> I think I need more coffee.
> 
> Jan, Seamus, Gracie & Phoebe


LOL! Good one :wavey:


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## SLIPPER (May 2, 2008)

*Fiddle Front*

Not a lot happening with her at the minute. She's being showed and has won BPIB a few times. Shes a typical pup and lots of people say she's a beautiful mover around the ring. She walks and runs true but you can see it when she is standing. Her breeder thinks she'll improve with exercise and stuff I'm not so optimistic. Its definately in her breeding as her brother had it but he's improved a lot over the last number of months. 

Will take her to the vet in the next week or so for a check up anyway. 

She's just a typical pup - daft as a brush and fun to have about the place. Plays constantly with the other 4 dogs we have. The issue isn't holding her up any - just me worrying about it.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Your description sounds more like my old girl or Creed. If the elbows and bone itself were involved, you should see it in her movement.

With Candy, I joked that she looked like Popeye  With Creed, it is definitely hair and so I keep it trimmed.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Can you post a straight on picture of her front?


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

I think pictures would help us all out, if you could take some, please?


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I wonder if this is why Tucker looks bow-legged? Only slightly. Love to see photos.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

I have also heard they improve this with a lot of road work, swimming and other exercise. Kali is a little elbowy as was her mother Holly.


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## SLIPPER (May 2, 2008)

*Fiddle Front*

Havn't got a picture but theirs an excellent example in the Golden Retriever show results forum - titled golden retriever club match. The second picture just looks like the way the pup stands.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

SLIPPER said:


> Havn't got a picture but theirs an excellent example in the Golden Retriever show results forum - titled golden retriever club match. The second picture just looks like the way the pup stands.


 
Ahh... while it's not a front on shot which would show everything from the shoulder down, this photo indicates a dog that is "toeing out", not fiddle fronted. In a truly fiddle fronted dog, the legs are bowed out from the elbows, curve down to the carpus, and then out again from the carpus to the feet. It is an actual curvature of the bone. 
Dogs that toe out often have narrow chests - not breadth to push the elbows out. Or, the can be "down at the pasterns" (weak wrists) - often an age or teething issue. In the case of the dog in the photo (pretty boy) he's young, and "goofy" and with maturity and training that looks like it will correct. I don't think his issue is structural...


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I agree-looks like "toeing out" or "east-west". If both toe out equally, it is often something that will correct itself with maturity, as the chest broadens and deepens. Not always though-there was a gorgeous imported dog at the 2006 Nationals, huge winner, in BOB, who toed out pretty visibly  

PG is basically right on, with her comments about it.


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## SLIPPER (May 2, 2008)

Thanks for all your comments. I don't have a front picture of her yet but heres the lady in question and another of her big brother Flurry.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

She's definately not fiddle-fronted. Her upper arm is nice and straight !


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