# Factors



## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

gdgli said:


> I had an interesting training day yesterday. What looked like pretty straightforward stuff really offered factors that were not readily apparent.
> 
> 1. A long mark uphill that took the dog past the end of a hedgerow perpendicular to the line to the mark. I was surprised to see that half the dogs swerved a bit to go through the hedgerow instead of going straight to the mark. Wind may have also been a factor.
> 
> ...


Indeed, it sounds like a good day of training!

1. What you observed is fairly common. When dogs get past a row of trees or hedges, or a brush line, or sometimes even a single tree, they will drift behind the object. The effect can be seen on both blinds and marks (especially retired gunners). It's just another form of suction. The push from the wind would certainly have exacerbated the effect.

2 & 3. It sounds as if the dogs were squaring both the stream and the hillside.

Great observations ... stuff to train on.


----------



## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

did the dogs flair the hedge row or go through the hedge row? my observation has been dog will flair cover (a hedge row) a hay bale or a tree but like Ft golden said will suck back in after passing by the factor/suction.


----------



## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

krazybronco2 said:


> did the dogs flair the hedge row or go through the hedge row? my observation has been dog will flair cover (a hedge row) a hay bale or a tree but like Ft golden said will suck back in after passing by the factor/suction.


That is the surprise, to me anyway---they went through the hedgerow. Others did get sucked back in after passing by the edge.


----------



## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

gdgli said:


> That is the surprise, to me anyway---they went through the hedgerow. Others did get sucked back in after passing by the edge.



Sometimes it helps to go to the spot where the dog went off line to see from the dogs perspective what the factor looked like. (From the dogs eye level.) 
The difference in perspective due to height can be tremendous and can make the test look far different to the dog than it does to us. When a dog is running their eyes are only about 18 to 20 inches above the ground. So things that we may not even notice can be huge factors for the dog.


----------



## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Swampcollie said:


> Sometimes it helps to go to the spot where the dog went off line to see from the dogs perspective what the factor looked like. (From the dogs eye level.)
> The difference in perspective due to height can be tremendous and can make the test look far different to the dog than it does to us. When a dog is running their eyes are only about 18 to 20 inches above the ground. So things that we may not even notice can be huge factors for the dog.



You are right. The next time around I will make sure I do that.


----------



## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Swampcollie said:


> Sometimes it helps to go to the spot where the dog went off line to see from the dogs perspective what the factor looked like. (From the dogs eye level.)
> The difference in perspective due to height can be tremendous and can make the test look far different to the dog than it does to us. When a dog is running their eyes are only about 18 to 20 inches above the ground. So things that we may not even notice can be huge factors for the dog.


Yep.
This past weekend, the judges set up a test with two of the marks thrown tight to a hedge row which had a fence deeply embedded (the fence did not pose a safety hazard). The problem was that when setting up, the judges did not think that the dogs could get through the hedge row. Well, of course, a bunch of dogs found holes in the hedge row and got on the other side of it ... once they got through it, they had a horribly difficult time getting back through the hedge row ... in fact, one of the gunners radioed back that one dog was LOOKING at the bird but couldn't get through the hedge row in order to pick it up. 
So far as call backs, the judges seemed to eliminate dogs which got on the wrong side of the hedge row even though they were never far from the bird, but called back dogs who never crossed the hedge row but hunted much, much farther from the bird than those who crossed it.
I know that judges, good ones, "lay an egg" and set up a poorly designed test every now and then, but this one could have been avoided if they had checked out the hedge row from the dogs' perspective.


----------



## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

FT


Crazy situation.


----------



## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Factors got me thinking about my pup. DH and I discussed at lunch today how we can work on factors rather than distance in order to increase the difficulty mentally for Riot. I think if we just stretch him out farther and farther without adding factors, we are missing out. So today we're going to try throwing marks on the other side of small bushes or on the other side of a downed tree trunk to get him thinking beyond what he sees. I saw some drills using culverts and an overturned dingy to get the dogs going over not around. But also working on side hills. He's such a good guy I think he'll adapt well.


----------



## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Alaska7133 said:


> Factors got me thinking about my pup. DH and I discussed at lunch today how we can work on factors rather than distance in order to increase the difficulty mentally for Riot. I think if we just stretch him out farther and farther without adding factors, we are missing out. So today we're going to try throwing marks on the other side of small bushes or on the other side of a downed tree trunk to get him thinking beyond what he sees. I saw some drills using culverts and an overturned dingy to get the dogs going over not around. But also working on side hills. He's such a good guy I think he'll adapt well.


Well, how's it working out?
FTGoldens


----------



## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

It went well. We went to Kincaid Park which is a cross country ski trail area. So lots of dirt trails and steep hills to throw across. First we threw straight up and down hills. Then gradually increase the angle across the hills sideways and diagonally. We don't have green grass yet, so visibility was very good for him. He did very well. Until I went threw the bumper in some rough tall grass that was flattened by the snow, so kind of wavy stuff. So he had to do a bit of hunting. Since he's steady I could go out and throw and watch him hunt it up. I threw in that rougher stuff twice. He ran short both times and took a moment to hunt them up. But I think it went really well. Today I'm going back to the same park and throwing over some downed trees from the winter snows. I also spied some large mud puddles for him to go through to get to the bumper. I'm trying to keep only 1 factor in a retrieve right now and not add too many factors at once. 

gdgli, this was a good idea for a thread. The hard part is, what are factors in my part of the country may not be factors in other parts of the country. When we travel getting that exposure at a new place can throw dogs for a loop.


----------



## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Alaska

I believe that we probably could all benefit from further analysis of the factors that are at play.


----------



## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Here is one set of factors that seems to affect the dogs. There is a small piece of field loaded with mint in our training area/hunt test area. This seems to make it very difficult for the dogs to scent the bird.


----------

