# If you all can stand another collar question....



## Tuckers Mom (Nov 12, 2010)

So Tucker is really a handful. At 2 years old, I seriously doubt that he has EVER been walked on a leash before. He has no leash manners, and walking him at this moment is not only frustrating, but painful, and I am very strong and routinely lift weights and run and I am in good shape. He is really strong, at 70lbs he is also THIN for his build. when I rescued him he was somewhat malnourished, and I am thinking when he gets healthy, he is gonna be a BIG boy. So Hub and I are off this evening to seek a training type harness to help me with him. The Boy NEEDS exercise, and I need to get him some, but I cannot walk him in his current condition due to the excessive size and weight. It's frustrating. SO. Do I want a Gentle Leader Harness, or do I want to try a choke collar like Cesar? I cannot see doing the choke collar, it seems cruel to me, and whomever had my boy before must have done something with a prong collar because he has an old neck injury where it looks like a bad rub mark with missing hair from such a device. Can you all weigh in and tell me your experiences with such things like a harness and reassure me that I am not being a wimp about all this and giving up? My feeling is that I can't exercise him if the time is totally unproductive due to his lack of being able to concentrate and his hearty pulling. I am dedicated to my Boy, and want a safe way to exercise him.....


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

The gentle leader will help a lot. I would also strongly recommend a good basic obedience class. They are a lot of fun and a good trainer will have a multitude of tricks to make walking on leash a joy. A good trainer will also really can pick up small things in your handling of your dog that you might not notice.


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## MilosMommy (May 24, 2010)

For our obedience class the trainer made us get a Easy Walk Harness. The leash clips to the front so when they pull it puts pressure on their chest and they stop pulling. It worked pretty well.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

I'd look for a Martingale collar (Combo Collar) by Lupine as his regular collar. I've seen people with the EZ Walk Harness that seem to like it.

I'd also recommend some off leash exercise at the dog park, training class, or in your fenced yard. That tires a dog much more than just leash walking.


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

I have the Gentle Leader head harness and the Easy Walk both by Premier and like them both. I would say Jaro likes the easy walk better, but I think there is more control with the Gentle Leader, especially for jumping. And the Gentle Leader comes with a great DVD about using it. I have very bad knees and could walk my almost 100 lb Subiaco before he died with the Gentle Leader and Jaro can really pull (7 monhts 50 lbs) if I connect his leash to the buckle collar but is great at loose leash walking (well for a puppy) with the Gentle Leader.


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## spruce (Mar 13, 2008)

MilosMommy said:


> For our obedience class the trainer made us get a Easy Walk Harness.


wish this would have been suggested when we went to lst class!! learned about it here.

I dreaded walking my guy (even at 3 he still can have "issues" - my fault) -with this harness I can control him..it gives ME confidence


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## Tuckers Mom (Nov 12, 2010)

Thanks everyone for your input. Went with the EasyWalk Harness, and at first, rebellion set in as he felt his magic powers were stripped... ( heh.) but in just 2 days, walking is improving, and today I took him on a JOG! How about my boy? wore his little paws OUT. at one point I think he looked up at me and said " really?" lol..... Threw Kong with him the yard for about 15-20 minutes prior to walk = Success. I think we are on our way to a well behaved canine citizen.


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

As the mom of two big golden boys, I would not do without the Easy Walk Harness. It is really awesome, and they don't even seem to know they have it on ( the Gentle Leader and my last golden were Enemies to the end...she could hook a claw under it and yank it off!!) I love the Easy Walk...it has made our journies so much easier.
Obedience training also helps, but my guys do not always transfer from class to walkies. Hope that this helps!


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## Minnesota (Nov 24, 2010)

HI
I just rescued our "Minnesota" this Friday , and he too only knows 2 speeds on the lead..sit and pull...I initially bought the martingale collar, he was too strong...went to prong collar, better....just today I took an old duffle bag and made it into a dog backpack, put a couple of water bottles on either side and sent my son off for a walk with him. My son said that he was walking calmer, no pulling ahead ,still moved to the side to sniff. my son had a loose lead for the majority of time except for correction ...Maybe try getting a dog backpack too as they say this gives them a job to do and mentally drains them...they say when the dos have this backpack on it tires them out faster a 15 mins walk is equivalant to a 30 mins walk.... I am no expert , just thought to share what worked tonite with us...good luck


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## FishinBuddy (Nov 20, 2008)

I say try a bunch out and see what works...Some dogs I've worked with shut down if you put a choke or prong on them...some "need" it. You can try working with treats in your left pocket. My dog needed the prong to "learn" the proper way. After countless hours and months he can heel will a flat collar. I think the prong/choker get a bad rep (like the e-collar as well) due to them being used by inexperienced people or being used to "punish" or reprimand the dog.


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## Tuckers Mom (Nov 12, 2010)

Well, As it turned out, the Easy Walk Harness did not end up working out for us. Poor Tucker is so undertrained, and the walks were anything BUT enjoyable. I got the gentle leader head collar, and despite a few tugs at his face when we first start out, he is walking calmly, and I am able to work with him much easier, teaching him as we walk BASIC commands like heel, stay, sit, and training him to sit and calmly wait at cross walks and when cars go by. Our 2.5 mile walk is much more enjoyable for us both now. The only Caveat to the Head collar is the rub marks it makes from Tucker Pulling. I called the company and they suggested some moleskin applied to it, until he becomes more calm about having it on, and today was the first walk with that on it. Now if I can only keep him from going completely PSYCHO when we see one of the million squirrels along the way! lol.....


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## jweisman54 (May 22, 2010)

Izzy used the Easy Walk harness but it didNOT stopher from pullimg. She now used the Gentle Leader Deluxe which has a felt liner underneath the nose loop thus preventing those lines in her face. She has adjusted to it very well and we can now do loose leash walking.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I personally favor the less aversive kinds of collars, harnesses, and halters wherever possible. The halters have the advantage of naturally turning the dog's head more towards the handler when he pulls, and I like that. However, they also take some acclimating because dogs sometimes find them annoying and unfamiliar.

Even if you need them for control and safety, I would say the ideal is to try to aim for the day where you don't need special equipment to control the dog. If you do use a halter or a prong, use them to create the space necessary to reward the dog for walking appropriately.

Consider getting into a family dog class and telling the instructor that good leash behavior is a problem. A great instructor can be an amazing resource. I was training a dog recently who was really a problem on the leash, and I had a really hard time rewarding him because he would take one piece of praise and one cookie and then immediately lunge to the end of the leash.

She showed me a really creative, smart way to use body position to attract the dog's attention and break through the lunging habit. I was really stuck until she showed me a whole new way of thinking about it. She handled him for 3 minutes and had him with her enough for a whole chain of rewards. It took me more like 20 to get the hang of the technique, but guess who doesn't lunge anymore?


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Brian that's sounds fascinating, can you describe the body postioning?


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

mylissyk said:


> Brian that's sounds fascinating, can you describe the body postioning?


It's a little hard to describe, but essentially, she recognized that he was attracted to movement, so right when be broke position, she would step away at about 90 degrees from where he was headed and pivot so she was moving backwards away from him. She attracted his attention with quick feet, a happy voice and exciting body language (crouching over a little).

She got him to turn towards her and come, and as he got to her, she'd pivot again so he was on her left side, and she rewarded him there.

Does that make sense? It's like doing something you'd do at the beginning of recall or leash training (backing away from the dog to get his attention and make him move towards you), but you do it as the way of breaking through the dog's bad habit (going ahead of you to the end of the leash), and it's only for a moment. You look a little like a psychotic ballet dancer, but it worked beautifully for him.

I was trying (and failing) to give multiple rewards while the dog was in the right position. That's worked really well with my dogs, but this guy was just very used to running right out front of his handler, so he'd take one reward and go, and nothing I did would create enough time for a second and third reward.

A simple change of direction wouldn't do it either, since he was busy ignoring you, so you'd just end up at the end of the leash, and I didn't want to pop him (he was a real people pleaser, but just didn't know what was expected, and I don't feel right punishing a dog in that situation). However, right at the instant he was starting to get ahead, you could start this moving backwards game where he could come to you for praise and a treat, and then smoothly move back to get him in a loose heel position.

She literally had him heeling in three minutes, and I literally had him doing it in 20. Now that he's back with his family, I'm not sure how well that behavior is being maintained, but it was pretty strong when I gave him back.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Sounds like you'd have to have a video to explain. I'm glad it worked for him. It's awesome the trainer could figure out exactly how to move to get his attention.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

mylissyk said:


> Sounds like you'd have to have a video to explain. I'm glad it worked for him. It's awesome the trainer could figure out exactly how to move to get his attention.


Yeah...I'm really at a loss to explain it clearly. I'm going to try a diagram.










Right as/before he gets ahead of you, right after the first reward (if you can manage to reward while he's in position, before he goes ahead), you go right 90 degrees, traveling backwards. You're traveling backwards, with your face to the dog, attracting his attention with quick feet and silly noises. He (hopefully) comes with you because you're being interesting in an unfamiliar way.

As soon as he does, you pivot and give him a target hand or a lure on your left and reward him as soon as he gets there. 

So hopefully it turns into:










The idea is that you break the pattern of going out to the end of the leash and teach him a new habit (following the crazy, erratic human is a fun, rewarding game) which you evolve into true loose heeling (making sure you stay next to the crazy, erratic human is a fun, rewarding game).

You change it up so you're not just going at 90 degrees each time, but the principle is basically to use walking backward to trigger the dog's natural attention for strange noises and odd movements. You can also get out ahead of the dog once he starts to get the idea, do a total 180 and start walking backwards, etc.

Better?


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