# Animal-only parents =)



## Feldenak (May 8, 2011)

My wife & I are animal-only parents. We do not want children because we feel we make a better uncle & aunt team.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

We're in the same boat! Except it's with our (much much much) younger siblings on both sides.


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## DianaM (Feb 18, 2010)

We are currently animal only parents as well! I can't say whether or not that will change but I'm 27 now and the older I get and more I'm around kids, the more I realize I have no patience for them haha. I love kids as well, but love when I can give them back to their parents even more!


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## caseypooh (Dec 30, 2010)

My husband and I are animal only parents too. I knew all along that I was not meant to be a human parent, animals are the loves of my life. Thank goodness my husband feels the same way.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Animals only for me too<:

There's just way too many inherited health issues on both sides of my family. And that's not just miscarriage problems.  

I love kids and sometimes do feel envious when I see other women my age with their babies. But it's not going to happen. >.< 

Anyway, I have more time and money to spend on my animals.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

We are only animal parents right now, but I want human children so much. I can't naturally have them myself, but we're currently looking into other options right now.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

caseypooh said:


> My husband and I are animal only parents too. I knew all along that I was not meant to be a human parent, animals are the loves of my life. Thank goodness my husband feels the same way.


Us too! I guess I'm a selfish personality and didn't want to give up my time for kids. To tell the truth, after seeing the crap my friends (same age as DH and I) are going through with their kids, I'm glad we made the decision we did. My parents, on the other hand, are not!


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

DNL2448 said:


> Us too! I guess I'm a selfish personality and didn't want to give up my time for kids. To tell the truth, after seeing the crap my friends (same age as DH and I) are going through with their kids, I'm glad we made the decision we did. My parents, on the other hand, are not!


This is honestly where our mindset is a lot of the time, however I don't feel that wanting to pursue my education with 100% of my energy and contributing to the world in other ways makes me selfish. You're not selfish for wanting different things =) I also relate to the trouble with your parents! My relationship with my mom really hasn't been the same since she put it together that we are not having children. She's got grandbaby rabies.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

So far it's just me, the dogs, and the cat. I'm 29 so kids are still a possibility, but at this point I'm single and enjoying being free to do what I want, when I want.

And my younger sister is more than willing to provide the grandbabies soon.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Loisiana said:


> So far it's just me, the dogs, and the cat. I'm 29 so kids are still a possibility, but at this point I'm single and enjoying being free to do what I want, when I want.
> 
> And my younger sister is more than willing to provide the grandbabies soon.


Just wait until your sister starts having babies though... All of those maternal hormones go nuts. 

Then again, I would assume since you have constant exposure to older kids when they are well past the scrumptious stage... so maybe you wouldn't have it so bad.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Mirinde said:


> She's got grandbaby rabies.


::: That is exactly right!


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

I have an animal baby only! But one day I'll definitely have human babies as well - I hope that is!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Megora said:


> Then again, I would assume since you have constant exposure to older kids when they are well past the scrumptious stage... so maybe you wouldn't have it so bad.


There have been a few times where I was relieved I wasn't going home to my own children because I thought I might feel the urge to backhand them on sight for no reason after spending the day at school.


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## Bella's Mama (Jun 12, 2011)

My husband and I are animal-only parents and hope to have children one day  I'm 24 so I still have some time.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Our daughter never wanted children. She told me when she was about 10 that she never wanted kids. Not sure where it came from but she has never changed her mind. Her husband is happy without them too.

They are doggie, horse and kitty parents.

G-dad and I are fine with that. I would never nag someone into getting a puppy, let alone having a baby or two. 

Our son's wife has always wanted children. They have two, a boy and a girl and they are done. And we're fine with that too!


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## OriJames (Jan 23, 2009)

I'm 25, and my life at the moment isn't very fair to have children. I'm a recovering agoraphobic and going through some heavy medical issues that make it almost impossible to even try to have children right now, as my body and I are not in agreeance on a daily basis. So while I can get Jasmine and Ori's daily schedule the way that it needs to be (not how I want it to be) growing children need a LOT more sacrifices than two walks a day, and doctor visits, and food.

When I can give my children what they need to be happy, healthy and stable, then I will have children. If I can't give them at LEAST those three, then I'll understand and know that it's probably a relief that I didn't have them if I couldn't give them the life they deserve. I've seen too many family members of mine suffer through issues of parents not being able to care for their children properly. Including my own parents. My children deserve better than that, and if I can't provide it, I will not regret my life in the slightest if I am unable to have them now, of even in the distant future. If I can't give them the best I can, then I have no right to just be adequate for them.

Besides, my pups I see like my children either way. And they see me as "mommy". There's love between us, and there's caring...without the worries that they'll grow up and leave me for college or some husband or wife I'm sure not to ever like. Lol.


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## Bentley's Mom (May 19, 2011)

My husband has adult children from a previous marriage and I survived uterine cancer. i kind of new at a very young age that I would be happier as the "cool" aunt anyway. Now that we are animal parents that will never change. We have already been talking about Bentley's sister


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## Doug (Jul 17, 2010)

We are DINKSTD (Double income no kids two dogs)

When we are out with the dogs having a sunny lunch at a cafe or going on a hike near a beach we often comment that there would be no way that we could do this if we had skin kids.

In fact if we had real kids I would not even have the time to be sitting here typing this lol

We appreciate the unconditional love and joy that we get from our furkids.


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## maus (Sep 20, 2009)

Two dogs, one cat, no humans. I prefer it that way, I've known since I was a small child (age 5) that I was never going to have kids. I've revisited the decision over my life time and never saw a reason to change my mind.


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## caseypooh (Dec 30, 2010)

My mom is the opposite, she didn't want any grand-children at all. I would have been a complete wreck with a child. I worry to death over our animals..no way would I have survived parenthood. I don't think it's being selfish either, it's just more time for the love and care of your animals. Lots and lots of toys too!


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

9 dogs, two cats here and no human children... and I will be honest and say that I really don't like human kids that much... I don't think they are cute and don't know what to do with them when I am around them. Dogs I understand, dog people I understand... human parents and kids I truly don't get.... I honestly don't understand why having a baby is such a great thing... we use up resources, the place is crowded, the planet is being over-populated... and honestly why is it such a big deal to duplicate ourselves are we so wonderful...?? 

so nope no human kids for me... not now, not ever


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## musicgirl (Jul 26, 2009)

I was an animal only single mom...lol. I WANT to be an animal only parents in the future...but I know that will change since the bf wants kids and I will probably want them too...


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## Kelmel (Apr 7, 2009)

We r a dog only couple with two young goldens that we adopted through rescue. We did not get here by choice, but we can't imagine it any other way now.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I don't think it's selfish to not want kids. I give people a lot of credit for knowing what they want and what they don't want. There were days when my kids were little.....:uhoh:


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> I don't think they are cute and don't know what to do with them when I am around them.


This is bad, but that's sort of like how I am about really young puppies when they still are blind and deaf and kinda twitchy. I saw Jacks when he was that young and thought he looked like a little white dog-hamster.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

Megora said:


> This is bad, but that's sort of like how I am about really young puppies when they still are blind and deaf and kinda twitchy. I saw Jacks when he was that young and thought he looked like little white dog-hamster.


Haha, such a funny description!


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

Penny's Mom said:


> I don't think it's selfish to not want kids. I give people a lot of credit for knowing what they want and what they don't want. There were days when my kids were little.....:uhoh:


I agree completely! I grew up in a large family that was very fun and loud, and that is something I definitely want to continue so I am definitely looking forward to having kids. However, I don't blame people at all for not wanting that, as I know from experience that it can be hectic and stressful. I don't think it is selfish at all to not want kids - everyone has their own priorities in life and we only live once so it is not worth doing things we don't want to do!


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## Dexell1827 (Feb 23, 2011)

I'm single, with three dogs. Although I don't consider them my "children", I do know I'm not likely to have children of my own. Which is funny, since I grew up dreaming of the kids I would have and even had lists of names picked out. I taught kindergarten for several years, and loved my students dearly, but was very glad to be able to come home to my dogs at the end of the day. 

Of course, I also had my wedding planned from a very young age, but now that I'm in my thirties, I don't see myself getting married any time soon. I'm having too much fun with my independence, and enjoy being able to fit my schedule around my dogs and their needs.


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## Tilly's Mom (Dec 3, 2010)

2 dogs, 1 cat, no human babies and I don't think that will change anytime soon and I am happy the way it is even though I think hubby wants kids


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Megora said:


> This is bad,


I thought we got away from judgements about women who didn't really like kids in the mid seventies.... 

Its not bad... it is what it is.... what would be bad is if I were a young woman in the mid sixties where there was great social pressure on women to have children and if you didn't or were like me and didn't care for children there must be something really wrong with you.... kinda like what you said above....


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## mm03gn (Sep 24, 2008)

We're currently dog-only parents. I'm turning 27 next month, and honestly thought that I would have kids by now. But things happen in life sometimes that change the plans...like me starting school again to get my CGA. Now, we're waiting until I'm finished in about 3-4 years to have kids. I really do look forward to it, and I feel that being doggy-parents does a LOT to help us prepare for the "real thing"!


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## alijeanrn (May 7, 2010)

As of this moment, we are parents to only furbabies: 2 dogs and 1 cat. Our little surprise human baby is due any day now. I'm hoping she's an animal lover like me so we can add more furbabies to the family in the far-off future!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Shalva said:


> I thought we got away from judgements about women who didn't really like kids in the mid seventies.......


I used the term "this is bad" because I can somewhat understand not finding something that most other people think is the bees knees, cute.  It was not a response to your politics or whatnot. 

If you don't think babies are scrumptious, you don't have to justify your feelings or desire to remain childless. Some people just don't want babies.

My mom's family all have problems staying pregnant. She had 4 miscarriages in addition to the seven kids that made it. Other than my grandma buying my parents a big baby doll because she wanted to see what they'd look like holding a "baby", there was nobody pressuring my mom to have kids. In fact, there is a funny story (or not funny, depends on how you look at it). After my sister died (pneumonia and brain damage after meningitis), my parents became preggers again. This was their choice. They wanted to move on, etc. My dad got physically attacked by the crazymad woman across the street who accused him of raping my mom and forcing her to have more children. It was completely insane! It was none of her business and both of my parents made the decision to have more kids.


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## Retriever123 (Jul 6, 2011)

I know that this post is not for people who have kids, hope you don't mind me posting. We do have 3 sons, they are all grown and out of the house now, so our puppy is now our baby, we had owned two other goldens, sadly both had to be put down because of hip dysplasia, so we got Maya July 2, in about 6 months we should also be getting a rescue golden retriever. So right now our dogs are our kids.

We both will be retiring soon, and will be able to spend more time with our dogs.

Love them to pieces, but we also love our kids very much.


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## turtle66 (Feb 19, 2010)

No human kids here, too. But I take the education of my animal kids (Jenny, the cat and Lilly, the dog) very seriously ))
And since I work every day with children, I am okay the way it is!


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

I don't think it's selfish not to want kids, but I also don't think it's selfish or terrible TO want kids. Nothing wrong with that. Circle of life. Babies are born everyday and people pass away everyday.


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## Jamm (Mar 28, 2010)

I may be young, but as of right now I have no desire for kids. I can't see myself as a mother and ive never been go go ga ga over young children. Im also pretty selfish in the sense that I know kids are LOTS of monay and If I have no kids, I can spoil my fur kids and do everything I want in life. I know totally selfish but it is what it is. Could this change? Of course! Do I think it will? highly doubt it. Lol


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Megora said:


> I used the term "this is bad" because I can somewhat understand not finding something that most other people think is the bees knees, cute.  It was not a response to your politics or whatnot.


I see what you are saying thanks for clarifying


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## GinnyinPA (Oct 31, 2010)

I never expected to marry and have kids. I saw so many bad and broken marriages I didn't expect to be able to create a lasting one. I didn't really want kids because I saw the hell my mother went through with hers. Then I met and fell in love with my husband. He was significantly older than I and already had grown children. I seriously considered having children once I knew our relationship was likely to last, but there were things we wanted to do that wouldn't have been possible with a family to take care of. So I took my pills until it was too late to change my mind. I have no regrets. We were able to travel and hike and had a lot of adventures. Now that my husband's health issues have forced us to be stationary, we decided it's time for the dog we both had long wanted but couldn't have as long as jobs and travel kept us away from home. It has been a different kind of adventure. I sometimes regret losing our wandering lifestyle, but I know it wouldn't be possible with Ben and Ben is an amazing addition to our lives. I imagine that would have been the case if I'd changed my mind 15 years ago and decided to have children. But it's too late now. Fine. I get to be a grandma without ever having to be a mother. We have five grandchildren who live a few hours away. I have five nephews and neices and some grand nephews. I don't miss kids of my own. On the rare times I wonder what would have happened if only, a couple of hours with the little ones convinces me I made the right decision.


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## spruce (Mar 13, 2008)

never considered having children..years ago we had "dogs", now we have "kids"


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

I think I wouldn't mind having a child or two, but at this point in my life, I am in NO situation to be having children. I will likely be in school until I'm 30, and after that I want to devote several years to establishing my career. By then I'll probably be too late. I think of Flora as my kid, and I feel no shame in saying that!

Soo.... I'll just hope that my little brother (who's getting married in 2 weeks!) will have lots of kids and I can just play the cool aunt.


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## Lisa_and_Willow. (Dec 18, 2007)

My dogs are not my kids and thats why I have them!! 

I understand dogs but people I have issues with so choosing to have one and care for it for the next 18 years seems like a bad idea to me. The responsability is too big and I will freely admit that I am too selfish to give my all to a child.

Plus I think puppies are far cuter than babies!


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Shalva said:


> and I will be honest and say that I really don't like human kids that much... I don't think they are cute and don't know what to do with them when I am around them. Dogs I understand, dog people I understand... human parents and kids I truly don't get.... I honestly don't understand why having a baby is such a great thing... we use up resources, the place is crowded, the planet is being over-populated... and honestly why is it such a big deal to duplicate ourselves are we so wonderful...??
> 
> so nope no human kids for me... not now, not ever


 
Ditto! 
I've had people look at me like I have two heads when I say it, but the truth is, I don't like kids. Never have.
I can look at some of them and think they're cute, but that's about the extent of it. I don't care to be around them, mainly because (like you said) I really don't know what to do with them. I have no maternal instincts, whatsoever! Not for human kids, anyway. 

And honestly, I've never had the patience for kids, either. I have all the patience in the world with animals - kids, not so much. I see kids acting up in stores or whatever, and hear their mothers counting to three, threatening time-outs or saying 'use your inside voice', things like that... and it kinda makes me want to jab an ice pick into my brain. 
It's just not something I understand.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> and hear their mothers counting to three, threatening time-outs or saying 'use your inside voice', things like that... and it kinda makes me want to jab an ice pick into my brain.


You aren't the only one jabbing sharp objects into brains when they are around parents like that. >.<


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Megora said:


> You aren't the only one jabbing sharp objects into brains when they are around parents like that. >.<


Heh. Glad I'm not the only one.
It's usually right about then that mom and I will start talking about how there should be leash laws for children. We've gotten some pretty dirty looks.


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## Jamm (Mar 28, 2010)

LifeOfRiley said:


> Ditto!
> I've had people look at me like I have two heads when I say it, but the truth is, I don't like kids. Never have.
> I can look at some of them and think they're cute, but that's about the extent of it. I don't care to be around them, mainly because (like you said) I really don't know what to do with them. I have no maternal instincts, whatsoever! Not for human kids, anyway.
> 
> ...



All of that is exactly how I am!!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Jamm said:


> All of that is exactly how I am!!


Me TOO!!!

I always say, take the dogs in the store and leave the kids in the car with the windows cracked open! Kids screaming/crying is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. 

People always tell me, 'oh it's different when they are your own kids'. Well ya, because I'd be doing more than counting to three! :no:


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

DNL2448 said:


> Me TOO!!!
> 
> I always say, take the dogs in the store and leave the kids in the car with the windows cracked open! Kids screaming/crying is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.
> 
> People always tell me, 'oh it's different when they are your own kids'. Well ya, because I'd be doing more than counting to three! :no:


I love that one. I've had quite a few people tell me that I'd feel differently if I had my own. They've told me, "Oh, it's different when it's your own. You'd have patience with your own." Yeah, maybe. And maybe not. Testing the theory never seemed like a wise idea to me!


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Anyone have the strange ability to attract children? To me, a child is about as familiar as an extraterrestrial, and yet when I am around them they seem to gravitate towards me. It's like when a cat senses someone doesn't like cats and they go up to that person and rub up against their legs... except kids don't rub up against my legs, they just want me to play with them and I'm like . 

I don't NOT like kids, but I'm so awkward around them! I hate hate _hate_ people who talk to children in baby voices, so I'm always trying to have a normal conversation with a kid and sometimes it's pretty amusing. :


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Happens to me all the time! Let me be clear...I am always very nice to them, which to those who know me always comment how good I am with kids. Well, they are okay as long as they and I go our seperate ways after the function we are at.


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## maggiesmommy (Feb 23, 2010)

My husband and I, too, are animal only parents. I absolutely despise the sound of children crying. A woman I used to work with once told me "children are a blessing if you are absolutely positive you want them and can take care of them...if there is even a tiny bit of doubt in your mind, they are a curse." I can't stand people who make their children their life and expect others to, too. For anyone (child free and parents alike) who wants a good laugh, go to STFU, Parents It is a blog where people send in the crazy/funny/gross things parents put on facebook about their kids.


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## maus (Sep 20, 2009)

LifeOfRiley said:


> I love that one. I've had quite a few people tell me that I'd feel differently if I had my own. They've told me, "Oh, it's different when it's your own. You'd have patience with your own." Yeah, maybe. And maybe not. Testing the theory never seemed like a wise idea to me!


I had a friend tell me that it different when they're your own. Asked if I could return them if it wasn't. She got a very confused look on her face and said no, I told her it wasn't a chance I was willing to take.:doh:


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

kdmarsh said:


> Anyone have the strange ability to attract children? To me, a child is about as familiar as an extraterrestrial, and yet when I am around them they seem to gravitate towards me. It's like when a cat senses someone doesn't like cats and they go up to that person and rub up against their legs... except kids don't rub up against my legs, they just want me to play with them and I'm like .
> 
> I don't NOT like kids, but I'm so awkward around them! I hate hate _hate_ people who talk to children in baby voices, so I'm always trying to have a normal conversation with a kid and sometimes it's pretty amusing. :


My mom does. She's a real kid magnet and oddly enough, she doesn't particularly care for them. (I'm glad she felt differently when she was younger, otherwise I wouldn't be here!) But yeah, kids are always drawn to her and she doesn't understand why.

And it's funny, but she doesn't "talk down" to little kids, either. It used to drive her _batty_ when other people would talk down to me when I was a kid. She'd tell them 'she may be a kid, but she's not stupid.' LOL. Maybe that has something to do with it? Maybe they're drawn to people who don't treat them like babies?


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

I'm sure some of you have already read this, but there's a "children's" book entitled Go the F*** to Sleep. It is HILARIOUS, and it also makes me feel a little sympathy for parents. If you can find a pdf version of it online it is a great read! And the illustrations are beautiful.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

OH my gosh you guys really made me laugh... We should get together for lunch we would all have a great time... you guys expressed in so many ways how I feel about kids... and its nice to know there are others like me out there... I figured I would get blasted for saying what I did but it seems like I opened the dam instead. 

Riley I totally get whaty ou are saying.. I know so many well educated women who totally lose all sense of their own identity when they have a kid... and I honestly don't get it... I got a text from my sister complaining about how she was sitting in some loud Parents lounge at an arcade with her kid.. and I was like oh shoot me now... or every saturday my neighbors do nothing but cart kids from soccer game to basketball game she has a desk calendar plastered to her wall for 2 months at a time so she can write the kids schedule down... uggghhhh no thank you.... 

the one I hear alot is ... well its a good thing your mother decided to have kids isn't it... 

well honestly first that was her choice not mine... and she hated every minute of it... but she was from a generation where women didnt have the choices they have now... AND even if she hadn't made the choice to have kids... I wouldn't know that so whatever... 

the point is you guys made me laugh and brightened my day quite a bit... 
thanks 
s


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

maggiesmommy said:


> I can't stand people who make their children their life and expect others to, too..


 
How do you feel about people who make their dogs their lives and expect others to, too? It's a sincere question, because I hear it all the time, and have read it here plenty of times. People who think that they should be able to take their dogs anywhere, or who take the stand that if someone doesn't like their dogs, they aren't welcome, etc. 

I have children. I also have dogs. I've never pushed either on anyone. But neither have I eliminated those from my life who don't have kids/don't like them, or don't have dogs/don't like them. I just simply do not understand that concept.

*And I am very careful about saying "animal parent", "furr-kids", etc. That is big ammunition for the AR extremists.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

Oh wow, I wasn't expecting this thread to get past the first page because I have such a hard time finding people who have similar views on having kids. I think my maternal instinct was broken when I was born, haha! The events of my life haven't really done much to help me develop one either. I get so uncomfortable with the "But it's different when it's your own!" comment because it's like... Can I return them if it isn't? I don't want to take that risk with someone else's life. I know I'm going to have to deal with the "It'll be different when you're older" comment for awhile, but hearing that other people knew so young that they weren't cut out for kids is really comforting-- I don't feel so alien anymore =) Basically, as much as I love kids, I do not feel 100% that I was supposed to be a mom, and I don't 100% feel that I would even be good at it and kids are one of those things to me where you should be 100% on board if you choose to have them.

Dogs on the other hand... I'd have a caravan full if I could provide for them all properly =) When I look at that face, I feel so at home.


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## Deb_Bayne (Mar 18, 2011)

No kids for me, I rather have animals. I'm not big on kids, just don't have a repertoire with them. I actually hate the smell of babies, makes me very nauseous and I have to leave the room. One 'in-law' was very upset with me when she asked if I wanted to hold her new baby and I politely said, "No Thank you" and left it at that. She treated me like a leper after that. I don't really care but think it's so hilarious when people take it personally and don't understand how unaffected I am by babies and kids, I don't get into discussions about it, I say that's just the way I am.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Just thought I'd chime in and say how much this thread has hurt my feelings. 

For us, a child WILL be a blessing. We're going to be spending an insane amount of money on one... we can't just get pregnant and have one. We will be adopting a child in the near future, and I'm sure it will mean just as much to that child as it will mean to us. 

I dunno. Just sort of bummed at the insensitive tone of this thread.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Mssjnnfer said:


> Just thought I'd chime in and say how much this thread has hurt my feelings.
> 
> For us, a child WILL be a blessing. We're going to be spending an insane amount of money on one... we can't just get pregnant and have one. We will be adopting a child in the near future, and I'm sure it will mean just as much to that child as it will mean to us.
> 
> I dunno. Just sort of bummed at the insensitive tone of this thread.


 
What a very lucky child he or she will be.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

@Pointgold... 

Whether you are talking about kids or dogs, I would hope that the responsible adult is making sure that their charges are well-behaved and respectful when taken in public.

I would be embarrassed if my dog were barking and running around or lunging at people while I'm in a store.

I would be embarrassed if my kid (I don't have any, but theoretically speaking) were running around, screaming, grabbing stuff, bugging people... 

I don't really expect people to use harsh methods to correct either dogs or kids. But the most effective thing would be dropping what they are doing and leaving the store and never bringing the kids back until they know how to behave in public.

ETA - And for either, I think that if the majority of kids and dogs were trained to behave themselves in public, fewer people would have issues with them.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sorry to have hurt your feelings MssJennfer, I'm sure that was not the intention of this thread. But for so many years people hurt my feelings because I DON'T want kids...kinda trying to guilt me into it. Plus, I don't begrudge you for wanting kids, I think it's great you do, and I hope you have success with your efforts. However, those of us posting on this thread are the minority and we have found kindred spirits in which we can finally speak openly about our feelings on having/not having children.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Megora said:


> @Pointgold...
> 
> Whether you are talking about kids or dogs, I would hope that the responsible adult is making sure that their charges are well-behaved and respectful when taken in public.
> 
> ...


 
I agree, although I'm not quite sure why this is a reply to my post.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

DNL2448 said:


> But for so many years people hurt my feelings because I DON'T want kids...kinda trying to guilt me into it. Plus, I don't begrudge you for wanting kids, I think it's great you do, and I hope you have success with your efforts. However, those of us posting on this thread are the minority and we have found kindred spirits in which we can finally speak openly about our feelings on having/not having children.



this is so true... to get your feelings hurt because others don't feel the same way about kids as someone else does is just silly....want kids have kids ... my sister has two adopted kids... good for her... whatever... but it is nice and normalizing to be able to hear from others who feel the same way regarding kids and animals without being castigated for that is pretty nice.


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## Lisa_and_Willow. (Dec 18, 2007)

Mssjnnfer said:


> Just thought I'd chime in and say how much this thread has hurt my feelings.
> 
> For us, a child WILL be a blessing. We're going to be spending an insane amount of money on one... we can't just get pregnant and have one. We will be adopting a child in the near future, and I'm sure it will mean just as much to that child as it will mean to us.
> 
> I dunno. Just sort of bummed at the insensitive tone of this thread.


I'm sorry you feel that what, can I ask what comments you feel are insensitive.

For someone like me this thread is a good thing, I'm sure I'm not the only young woman who has been judged by not wanting children. People who say that I can't be happy or feel love until I have a baby can make me feel angry or even defective. Why should everyone want to reproduce?

I don't hate kids, far from it but I do not want to have my own or feel responsabile for anyone elses. This hammered home to me a few years ago when I pulled a toddler out from a busy road as her mother was chatting to a friend. I have cousins I adore and play with but when they cry and scream I have to hand them back because I just can't stand it.

I don't feel this thread is looking down on parents (at least I know I'm not) and I really do wish you the best of luck on your adoption path and I hope you are able to hold your child soon.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Pointgold said:


> I agree, although I'm not quite sure why this is a reply to my post.


Ohw. I was answering the following from a previous quote. I don't think people mind kids when they are well-behaved. Same thing with dogs. 



> How do you feel about people who make their dogs their lives and expect others to, too? It's a sincere question, because I hear it all the time, and have read it here plenty of times. People who think that they should be able to take their dogs anywhere, or who take the stand that if someone doesn't like their dogs, they aren't welcome, etc.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Mssjnnfer said:


> Just thought I'd chime in and say how much this thread has hurt my feelings.
> 
> For us, a child WILL be a blessing. We're going to be spending an insane amount of money on one... we can't just get pregnant and have one. We will be adopting a child in the near future, and I'm sure it will mean just as much to that child as it will mean to us.
> 
> I dunno. Just sort of bummed at the insensitive tone of this thread.


 
I'm so sorry. As one who has raised my children and is now enjoying every nuance of the blessings of grandchildren, you are right... for me and you and countless others, children ARE blessings. I can honestly say that my days of having babies, children (and yes), even teens at home are treasures and ones I wouldn't trade for anything. Your children will be blessed to be in a family that loves them and will guide them, and you will be blessed with untold love and insights that come no other way.

I appreciate that there some people don't want or aren't cut out for parenthood, but I, too, am pretty shocked at the animosity and insensitivity of some of the posts here.


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## Deb_Bayne (Mar 18, 2011)

Mssjnnfer said:


> Just thought I'd chime in and say how much this thread has hurt my feelings.
> 
> For us, a child WILL be a blessing. We're going to be spending an insane amount of money on one... we can't just get pregnant and have one. We will be adopting a child in the near future, and I'm sure it will mean just as much to that child as it will mean to us.
> 
> I dunno. Just sort of bummed at the insensitive tone of this thread.


Excuse me, nobody can hurt your feelings, the insensitivity belongs on you for placing the blame on those of us who CHOOSE not to have kids. I do not feel guilty for my choices and will not accept or take responsibility for your choosing to feel hurt. We are not insensitive for expressing our true feelings and there are many on this thread expressed both options, to have kids and not to have kids. You are choosing to read and remember the comments on NOT having kids rather than focus on the comments of those who do intend to have kids at some point. 

I'm not attacking you personally just your choice of words.....:no:


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

Hurting feelings is definitely not the intention of this thread, but I was a little bit prepared for it because that tends to be what happens when childfree people and parents communicate about kids specifically. That's why I said no one needed to explain why they didn't want kids if they felt uncomfortable. I'm sorry your feelings were hurt and I very much believe the child you adopt will be tremendously blessed to have someone like you as a mom..who genuinely wants to love and devote her time and energy to that child. However, I can not be that sort of mom and frequently am made to feel like something is wrong with me/broken because of that so it is very nice to talk to other people who feel the same way. Good luck with your adoption, and I hope you're able to snuggle up with your child very soon =)


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

I'm not going to go through and pick apart different posts that stung... just the general tone, like I said.



Deb_Bayne said:


> Excuse me, nobody can hurt your feelings, the insensitivity belongs on you for placing the blame on those of us who CHOOSE not to have kids. I do not feel guilty for my choices and will not accept or take responsibility for your choosing to feel hurt. We are not insensitive for expressing our true feelings and there are many on this thread who have different feelings on this.
> 
> I'm not attacking you personally just your choice of words.....:no:


Excuse me. Read my earlier post when I said there was NOTHING WRONG with not wanting children. Point to me where I was placing blame on those of you who choose not to. Please, quote me and show me. I have NOTHING AGAINST people who don't want them. I do have something against people who think it's insane for someone to want a child or to put their whole lives into their children.


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## Lisa_and_Willow. (Dec 18, 2007)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> I'm so sorry. As one who has raised my children and is now enjoying every nuance of the blessings of grandchildren, you are right... for me and you and countless others, children ARE blessings. I can honestly say that my days of having babies, children (and yes), even teens at home are treasures and ones I wouldn't trade for anything. Your children will be blessed to be in a family that loves them and will guide them, and you will be blessed with untold love and insights that come no other way.
> 
> I appreciate that there some people don't want or aren't cut out for parenthood, but I, too, am pretty shocked at the animosity and insensitivity of some of the posts here.


I may be blinded to it but I don't get what has been posted to upset you so much? No one here wants to hurt children or would stand by and watch one suffer we just chose a life without them.

You love your children and they mean the world to you, as they should but please realise that when you post things like "you will be blessed with untold love and insights that come no other way." you are putting down the lives of people who do not choose that. 

It makes it sound like those who do not have kids for whatever reason have lesser lives that that to me is pretty insensitive.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

Mssjnnfer said:


> I'm not going to go through and pick apart different posts that stung... just the general tone, like I said.
> 
> 
> 
> Excuse me. Read my earlier post when I said there was NOTHING WRONG with not wanting children. Point to me where I was placing blame on those of you who choose not to. Please, quote me and show me. I have NOTHING AGAINST people who don't want them. I do have something against people who think it's insane for someone to want a child or to put their whole lives into their children.


I'm sorry this turned into a negative atmosphere for you, if you'll read my previous post. I genuinely don't think anyone was trying to express that people who choose to have kids are insane... just that it would be insane for _us_ and _our_ lifestyles to choose to have kids. Children are so deeply personal, I don't think anyone was trying to say that because we don't want to have children that no one should want to have children.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

"You love your children and they mean the world to you, as they should but please realise that when you post things like "you will be blessed with untold love and insights that come no other way." you are putting down the lives of people who do not choose that. "



And that is what I have been dealing with my entire life!


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

While I can understand where the dissenters are coming from, I think it's a shame that they had to put a dark tone on this thread. I was enjoying reading it and "commiserating" with my fellow childless golden owners, and now it's all about whose feelings are hurt and why it's so awful that we don't want kids. Boo.


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## maggiesmommy (Feb 23, 2010)

Pointgold said:


> How do you feel about people who make their dogs their lives and expect others to, too?



I feel the same way as I do about children.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Anyone who has experiences someone else doesn't has insights others don't. Breeders have insights that we don't, doctors have insights patients don't, etc etc etc. And I stand by that parents have insights that those who haven't had the role don't. Part of that insight in that particular instance is the love between child and parent. I have friends with oodles of kids and many friends who have chosen to be child free and I love them all. But we don't sit around denigrating the others choices.


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## Lisa_and_Willow. (Dec 18, 2007)

Mssjnnfer said:


> I'm not going to go through and pick apart different posts that stung... just the general tone, like I said.
> 
> 
> 
> Excuse me. Read my earlier post when I said there was NOTHING WRONG with not wanting children. Point to me where I was placing blame on those of you who choose not to. Please, quote me and show me. I have NOTHING AGAINST people who don't want them. I do have something against people who think it's insane for someone to want a child or to put their whole lives into their children.


Actutally I believe that if you choose to have a child you should make that child your whole life. Thats why I don't want one.

Nothing is worse than an unwanted child whose parents put less thought into having him/her than I did choosing my puppy.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Just a suggestion here for a compromise--this is one of those topics that might be better served by creating a forum Social Group--for childfree members who want to bond and discuss. That would take it out of the forum threads and wouldn't hurt those who are dealing with infertility issues when they see this thread pop up. Plus it gives those of you who join a great social network/outlet. Just an idea....


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Megora said:


> Ohw. I was answering the following from a previous quote. I don't think people mind kids when they are well-behaved. Same thing with dogs.


But, there ARE people who DO mind kids and dogs even when extremely well behaved. There are people who are _afraid _of dogs. My point is that I am not going to consider that reason to not include someone in my life - those people may be wonderful and have a lot to offer and just because they don't like dogs or children it would be silly for me miss out on them being my friends. I am not offended by it. It's not an issue for me to put my dogs in the kennel or another room to accomodate them. And yes, my dogs are extremely well behaved. 

And as a person who has spent LOTS of time at this, I can tell you that there are far too many people who do impose their ill-behaved dogs on others, and who put in jeopardy those of us who are considerate when it comes to our dogs. Hotels, parks, etc that allow dogs are becoming harder and harder to fine. Not only do weclean up after our own dogs when at a hotel, for example, I have cleaned up after others. (And not just fellow exhibitors, as we have watched other guests with obviously pet dogs allow them to eliminate and simply walk away from it. Or leave their yapping pets in the room when they go out to shop, or eat. 
And it's not just dogs, it's children, too. Just last week in the news was a story about a restaurant owner who just established a new "No Children" policy. And kids not being allowed to fly in 1st class with their parents. My kids were well behaved in public, and if they weren't they were removed from the situation and knew that there were consequences. 

I don't mean to hijack the topic. I'm sorry that anyone would have their feelings hurt by those who don't accept their choice not to have children. There is no reason for it.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Lisa_and_Willow. said:


> Actutally I believe that if you choose to have a child you should make that child your whole life. Thats why I don't want one.
> 
> Nothing is worse than an unwanted child whose parents put less thought into having him/her than I did choosing my puppy.


I agree!!! One of the biggest things I struggle with is if I have a child I would feel obligated to give up my career, as I feel very strongly that a child should always have a stay at home parent. I do not believe in using daycare or a nanny to raise a child (and this is just my opinion, please don't be offended. I already offended my brother's fiance when I said this to her, whoops)!

And at this point in my life, I just can't even consider the notion of giving up my career (well... if I had a career, that is. ) So a child is not for me. For now.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

and once again a discussion of why people might choose to not have children becomes a conversation about how terrible that is... and how they are insensitive etc etc.... 

and you are right I DON"T understand parents.... I don't get those who give up their entire self identity... who don't pursue any of their own interests and become totally single faceted... and I feel the same way about anyone who has no other interests... dog people as well... to answer the question... 

Honestly there are very very few people who I think should have children.... but the "you hurt my feelings cause you don't like kids and don't understand parents" well that is just ridiculous.... 

want kids have them... just don't subject me to them... and for as many parents who actually take responsibilty for the behavior of their offspring... there are many more who don't... who let the kid cry all through the movie... or bang on the bird cage at the petco... who are rude and have no consideration for those around them... who run up and down past the tables in the restaurants... and then give you the "oh aren't they adorable" look.... 
ummm no, they aren't.... at McDonalds you deal with children... that is the place to teach them appropriate behavior... at a better restaurant its just annoying...
the problem is its like driving.... everyone thinks they are a good driver... and everyone thinks their kids are wonderful... very seldom are either totally true

and about dogs in parks.... well that annoys the heck out of me... 

we pay taxes to this town... we paid to have the land for the park purchased... we clean up after our dogs, they are obedience trained and on leash so nobody is subjected to them who might not like them, be allergic to them or afraid... and we can't use the resources that we are paying for .... we do clean up after others etc etc.... we don't leave cigarette butts, or litter, or lollipop sticks or gum under tables or on sidewalks...


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## cory (Aug 23, 2010)

I have two children that I love with all my heart and all that I am. They are my life and I wouldn't have it any other way. That being said, I must commend all of you women that have decided to not have children by choice. I think it is wonderful that you are intelligent and self-aware enough to realize that and strong enough to know that being a parent is not for you. I can't believe that anyone would make you feel guilty for that. 

I also can't imagine how difficult it must be to want a child though and not be able to have one though.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Okay, funny story to lighten the mood a little: I hate needles (I would make a terrible drug addict). For my EMT license, I had to have blood drawn. The nurse put the rubber tube around my arm and started to come at me with the syringe. I said, "oh, can't you take the blood out of my finger, I've never had a needle in my vein before". She stood up and looked at me incredously and said "you've never had children?". I said, "no, and besides they don't come out of my vein!" So, I guess the moral of the story, I don't like needles, so I don't want children.


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## Deb_Bayne (Mar 18, 2011)

Lisa_and_Willow. said:


> "you will be blessed with untold love and insights that come no other way." you are putting down the lives of people who do not choose that.
> 
> It makes it sound like those who do not have kids for whatever reason have lesser lives that that to me is pretty insensitive.


I've been told that and it's a total insult to my choices. I've also been told that not to have children is to not have anyone to take care of you in your old age. I thought that was the most selfish comment and told them so. Sure I looked after my Dad in his ailing health and was glad to do so, I don't think he had me just so I could look after him. Besides, out of the 4 kids he had I was the only one who wanted to be there for him 24/7. 

I will never criticize those who choose to have kids and expect the same courtesy for my choices. Besides, I have nothing to offer children. I am a school bus driver and that's enough dealing with kids thankyou. LOL 2 hours in the morning, 2 hours in the afternoon is plenty.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

cory said:


> I also can't imagine how difficult it must be to want a child though and not be able to have one though.


Let's also not forget that same-sex couples cannot have children, and are confronted with many obstacles in order to get a child that heterosexual couples do not have to deal with.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

DNL2448 said:


> Okay, funny story to lighten the mood a little: I hate needles (I would make a terrible drug addict). For my EMT license, I had to have blood drawn. The nurse put the rubber tube around my arm and started to come at me with the syringe. I said, "oh, can't you take the blood out of my finger, I've never had a needle in my vein before". She stood up and looked at me incredously and said "you've never had children?". I said, "no, and besides they don't come out of my vein!" So, I guess the moral of the story, I don't like needles, so I don't want children.


LOL! Too funny! I can't see ever getting over my doctor phobia long enough to have kids... I have a borderline anxiety attack just taking Iorek to the vet and that's not even my doctor!


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## Deb_Bayne (Mar 18, 2011)

Oh, reading the 'you have to make the children the focus of all your life, give up everything for them' is the most horrible statement. My Mom did this, us kids were her whole life, nothing she did was done without us in mind. In turn she lost so much of her own life, when each one of us became teenagers and developed our own interests she started to feel the loss hugely. Then I, the youngest, moved out and Mom was totally beside herself, she had no life left. She died at 71 years young without a life of her own and missing her children who were now adults. I saw this happening and just couldn't see myself making the sacrifices for 15 + years just for kids. 

Now, my animals, that's a different story, they obviously depend on me but I never have to deal with them leaving and saying... see ya, thanks for raising me but now I'm on my own and I'll forget all about ya when you're in the old folks home. Oh boy, this is bringing up a lot of junk and I'm better to stop now or I'll need therapy to clean it all up. LOL


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Shalva said:


> we pay taxes to this town... we paid to have the land for the park purchased... we clean up after our dogs, they are obedience trained and on leash so nobody is subjected to them who might not like them, be allergic to them or afraid... and we can't use the resources that we are paying for .... we do clean up after others etc etc.... we don't leave cigarette butts, or litter, or lollipop sticks or gum under tables or on sidewalks...


Oh, and that's another thing that chaffs my hide...I have to pay school tax! But, I guess there is no way to get around that. :doh:


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

I don't mind that our property taxes will be going mostly towards public education when we buy a house (although I wish more of it went to public colleges)... if I want to live in an educated society, I don't mind helping fund the kids who will be learning. I'd mind even less if our public school system was a little better though.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

maggiesmommy said:


> I feel the same way as I do about children.


 
Thank you.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Mirinde said:


> if I want to live in an educated society, I don't mind helping fund the kids who will be learning. I'd mind even less if our public school system was a little better though.


Well, if you put it _that_ way, I guess I can live with it.


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## maggiesmommy (Feb 23, 2010)

Deb_Bayne said:


> I I've also been told that not to have children is to not have anyone to take care of you in your old age.


My sister in law asked me about that a while ago. I responded with "The same person who will take care of you in your old age...the nice people at the nursing home." - no offense to those of you who have children and will be taken care of by them, but there are way too many people in the nursing homes who have children who are too busy to even visit.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

DNL2448 said:


> "You love your children and they mean the world to you, as they should but please realise that when you post things like "you will be blessed with untold love and insights that come no other way." you are putting down the lives of people who do not choose that. "
> 
> 
> 
> And that is what I have been dealing with my entire life!


 
But, it's true. Just as it would be if someone said "you will be blessed with untold love and insights that come no other way" if you were talking about getting, say, a rescue dog. It is in no way putting down the lives of people who choose not to. It's simply an entirely different and separate love and insight gained than from something else. I don't believe that it is saying that one cannot experience love, or insights altogether, just that it is unique.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

Pointgold said:


> But, it's true. Just as it would be if someone said "you will be blessed with untold love and insights that come no other way" if you were talking about getting, say, a rescue dog. It is in no way putting down the lives of people who choose not to. It's simply an entirely different and separate love and insight gained than from something else. I don't believe that it is saying that one cannot experience love, or insights altogether, just that it is unique.



My issue with this statement (and I try to not take too much of an issue with it because..well..to each their own), is that _most_ parents (not all!) like to use it coupled with an implication that nothing I do or achieve will even remotely fullfill me the way that untold love and insight will. That my education, my passions, and my dreams pale in comparison to the joys of being a parent. And that's fine, if everything else in the world pales in comparison to being a parent for them but it's frustrating as a childfree person to consistently have all my other goals put down because if they don't involve having children, they are somehow worthless. 

I hope I articulated that without being offensive. Sorry if I couldn't.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Pointgold said:


> But, it's true. Just as it would be if someone said "you will be blessed with untold love and insights that come no other way" if you were talking about getting, say, a rescue dog. It is in no way putting down the lives of people who choose not to. It's simply an entirely different and separate love and insight gained than from something else. I don't believe that it is saying that one cannot experience love, or insights altogether, just that it is unique.


Ya, I get that, heard it a million times, well, now a million and two. And that is okay, but still, being looked upon (by various aunts, cousins and others) as some kind of leper for not wanting _that_ blessing or untold love and insight gets old after a while. I'd rather get _my_ blessing, untold love, and insight from what mean something to _me_. I don't have an issue AT ALL with those who want kids, I just want people respect that and not give me their shpeel.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Well, it's very good that some people recognize that they don't want children.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

I hope you all don't mind, me saying, mom of two, one passed at 27, sometimes i feel i am only a mom,o dogs, don't see other son much, but it is nice being a grandparent. I feel, it is okay ,if you do not want kids, nothing wrong with it, that is a change from what i thought when younger, could not understand why one would not, but i see now, at almost 60.


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## SmileyRiley (Oct 16, 2010)

Good discussion..I am a mom of three grown kids. I take exception to the notion of making kids "your whole life". I think maybe that is why so many are put off by the kids/parents they encounter today. Many of the young parents I know are over-focused on their kids to the point that they kids have no "grow space" and the parents are run ragged catering to the needs and whims of their kids.

As a parent (and a stay at home one) I had a lot of other irons in the fire while I was raising my kids and they learned that everyone in the family had needs and interests and they didn't always get to do/have what they wanted.

Now we are "dog only" with kids outside the house. I think I could have been happy with dogs/no kids and would have been fulfilled that way as well. Kudos and respect to those of you who know your own hearts at such a young age.

Sorry if this was a tad off topic.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Pointgold said:


> But, there ARE people who DO mind kids and dogs even when extremely well behaved. There are people who are _afraid _of dogs. My point is that I am not going to consider that reason to not include someone in my life - those people may be wonderful and have a lot to offer and just because they don't like dogs or children it would be silly for me miss out on them being my friends. I am not offended by it. It's not an issue for me to put my dogs in the kennel or another room to accomodate them. And yes, my dogs are extremely well behaved.
> 
> And as a person who has spent LOTS of time at this, I can tell you that there are far too many people who do impose their ill-behaved dogs on others, and who put in jeopardy those of us who are considerate when it comes to our dogs. Hotels, parks, etc that allow dogs are becoming harder and harder to fine. Not only do weclean up after our own dogs when at a hotel, for example, I have cleaned up after others. (And not just fellow exhibitors, as we have watched other guests with obviously pet dogs allow them to eliminate and simply walk away from it. Or leave their yapping pets in the room when they go out to shop, or eat.
> And it's not just dogs, it's children, too. Just last week in the news was a story about a restaurant owner who just established a new "No Children" policy. And kids not being allowed to fly in 1st class with their parents. My kids were well behaved in public, and if they weren't they were removed from the situation and knew that there were consequences.
> ...


Totally agree with your post, Laura. I was merely responding to what sets off even people who love dogs and kids - "their own kids and dogs". 

Um, good example of behavior that drives me nuts -

I always brought my Danny with to company picnics because it gives me something to do (I'm bored to tears at these events and use them to train my dogs or socialize them). The majority of the people at these picnics came up and literally adopted my dog for the day. If they were upset, it was because he refused to take food from them. There were some young girls there who pretended to be afraid of him, for who knows what reason. They reacted to him about the same way that some girls pretend to react to spiders or mice. Meaning they would wander up close not noticing him and then they would scream. Whatever. I have no patience with this, even if I can understand true fears and phobias about dogs. 

I know there have been people who react to my niece the same way, even though she has always been mature and well-behaved in public. Some people see kids and will glare and be downright rude to them. And it's a bad example to show those kids. If you have a child who has been taught to be respectful and observant of other people, they notice when people are not acting properly towards them. 

FWIW - I'm also bothered by how pregnant women are treated by some people. When my sister had her first miscarriage (it runs in the family), I was stunned at how lightly it was treated by people when they found out my sister was only 4 months along. They were like "oh well, it could have been worse". Meanwhile, my sister was dealing with loss.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Mssjnnfer said:


> Just thought I'd chime in and say how much this thread has hurt my feelings.
> 
> For us, a child WILL be a blessing. We're going to be spending an insane amount of money on one... we can't just get pregnant and have one. We will be adopting a child in the near future, and I'm sure it will mean just as much to that child as it will mean to us.
> 
> I dunno. Just sort of bummed at the insensitive tone of this thread.


I'm sorry if anything I said has hurt your feelings. It wasn't my intention to offend anyone.

I don't understand why anyone would take what has been said in this thread personally, though. I don't think that anyone is saying 'all kids are horrible and nobody should ever have one.' We're just explaining why it's not for us and why we've chosen not to have them. That's all I intended, anyway - I won't speak for anyone else. 
It really seems to be a bit of a double standard. And not just on this forum - everywhere. People talk about having a baby, or adopting a child and everyone is expected to think that it's wonderful. (Which it is - absolutely - if that's what you want.) But when someone says that they don't care for kids, don't have the patience, don't want them, etc., so many people think it's horrible. It seems like it's taken as a personal insult. I guess I just don't understand that.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

I don't mind paying taxes to the town... we will never use the schools but thats how it is.. we need an educated populace... however I get really annoyed at not being able to use the parks from memorial day to labor day ... or take my dogs to the farmers market on public streets... or to the parade or whatever... that just annoys the heck out of me...


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

I ,think because you want a child, you feel this way, i understand that, so does others, but some don't, now i am not talking aborting, a child, only choising not to have one, that is what i mean by it being okay, hope you have your very much wanted baby, good luck.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Shalva said:


> I don't mind paying taxes to the town... we will never use the schools but thats how it is.. we need an educated populace... however I get really annoyed at not being able to use the parks from memorial day to labor day ... or take my dogs to the farmers market on public streets... or to the parade or whatever... that just annoys the heck out of me...


Or being able to take dogs out to more lakes! 

I know why they are not permitted (watch or read Marley & Me). But heck. Human feces and urine is more disgusting than dogs, and they carry more infectious diseases. :yuck:


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

LifeOfRiley said:


> It really seems to be a bit of a double standard. And not just on this forum - everywhere. People talk about having a baby, or adopting a child and everyone is expected to think that it's wonderful. (Which it is - absolutely - if that's what you want.) But when someone says that they don't care for kids, don't have the patience, don't want them, etc., so many people think it's horrible. It seems like it's taken as a personal insult. I guess I just don't understand that.


I agree... I totally don't get offended if someone says they don't like or afraid of my dogs... everyone is different and that is fine... but parents or parents to be get soooo offended when someone says that they don't like or want children... like somehow that is a personal affront... I am with you... I totally don't get that.... 

I am not going to be mean to your kid... but at the same time I don't want to have your kid forced upon me either... I don't want to hae to pretend to oooohhhh and ahhhhhh over a baby or some kids picture.... or pretend to laugh at the story .... are there well behaved kids ... yeah sure... my neighbor has four of them and I ADORE THEM.... they are mostly grown now but they are bright, caring kids and they are the exception to the rule as far as the kids I meet.... and there mother has no life outside of those kids.... 

A friend of mine is 7 mos. pregnant... after being told over 20 years ago she couldn't ever have children... she has never used birth control and now in her forties she is pregnant... do I think its the great blessing that she does... Not really... I still don't get it.... but she is happy... so I am happy for her... but thats as far as it goes...


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## Lisa_and_Willow. (Dec 18, 2007)

Not being able to take our dogs to lakes, parks etc is the fault of other dog owners who don't train or clean up after their animals. 

I can't blame anyone who complains about treading in dog poop or being jumped on by an untrained animal.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Megora said:


> Or being able to take dogs out to more lakes!
> 
> I know why they are not permitted (watch or read Marley & Me). But heck. Human feces and urine is more disgusting than dogs, and they carry more infectious diseases. :yuck:


yeah and don't tell me those kids are peeing/pooping in the proverbial pool

and honestly in this area... dogs are the least of the worries... lets not forget the assortment of wildlife here in NH


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

The comments that hurt my feelings were the ones that made it sound like people who DO want kids are nuts, or that putting your whole life into children is ridiculous. 

I have nothing against those of you who don't want kids. I respect that. I swear to doG I do. I'm not one of the people who is out there to make you feel bad about not wanting them...

... But can you also see where I'm coming from?


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## Usha Maceio Brazil (Apr 21, 2011)

Synchronicity: I have just read an article by a Brazilian pediatrician urging people not to have children if they are not committed to slowing down their careers and lifestyles. As a doctor he is fed up of caring for kids that go to his office with their nannies. In the city I live middle class parents wait until they can afford a nanny for weekdays and another for weekends when they have children. Crazy world.

I feel hope in our society when people are true to themselves and say that they rather go childless. I chose to have kids. One is away at college in the US and another is with me. We all get along really well. But the love that I got from them when they were little only compares with the love I get from my furry kids these days. LOL Kids grow and start their own lives. Dogs are here to stay during their lifespan. Either way, with kids or not, our family thinks that a house is only happy when there are dogs around. But it is because we are all dog lovers. My son built all his volunteer hours helping a dog shelter, and could not believe his friend actually preferred volunteering with kids. Thanks to God or nature we are all different and have diverse needs and wants!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Mssjnnfer said:


> The comments that hurt my feelings were the ones that made it sound like people who DO want kids are nuts


Mssjnnfer, change one work in your sentance...from DO to DON'T, and do you see where we are coming from?

Those who want kids are ALWAYS going to out number those of us who don't. And just like bad pet people, there are bad parents. Just once, I would like to fly cross country for business without a kid screaming/baby crying, or go to a resturant or Walmart without hearing a temper tantrum or listening to loud child commentary during a movie. How about when DH's brother and sister in-law bring their kids into MY home and kick MY dog, how do you think that makes me feel? Yes, those are the exception to the rule, but fortunatly and unfortunatly, the well behaved children do not bring attention to themselves like that. I appreciate the parents, and wish there were more of them, that would raise their children to be respectful and mindful of others.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

When you get older, sometimes you see things, differently, i was a stay at home mom, lived away from family, never had my kids grandparents around, no family at all, they lived away, so i can see either not doing that, or having a life out of your home, working , you see the mistakes you made in life. So, i wish i had done things , some what different, in life.


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## MidasMom (Jun 2, 2010)

Dallas Gold said:


> Just a suggestion here for a compromise--this is one of those topics that might be better served by creating a forum Social Group--for childfree members who want to bond and discuss. That would take it out of the forum threads and wouldn't hurt those who are dealing with infertility issues when they see this thread pop up. Plus it gives those of you who join a great social network/outlet. Just an idea....


I think this is an absolutely fabulous idea! On the flip side of it, maybe there could be a social group thread on the forum for those WITH kids and animals. I think it would be great to bond and discuss with others who have kids and animals too. I used to be one who never wanted kids, thought I would just have dogs, cats, no human babies, but things changed. I am now 35 and have three great kids, 7, 5 and 2 and two wonderful goldens and three cats. Is my life full and crazy at times, heck yes, but totally worth it, heck yes. I love my dogs and kids so much I feel that by heart might burst sometimes. We do everything together, vacations, hiking, walks in the park, you name it. I wouldn't have it any other way, but I totally get those who don't want to have kids. Its not for everyone. But for me and my family it works. Guess we can all chalk it up to "to each their own".


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## dexter0125 (Mar 20, 2011)

I'm a single animal only parent. I do not want kids, period. So I hope my future husband agrees and only wants goldens.


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

I don't have kids, and I'm not even sure I want one... If I do, I think I decided I want to adopt a little kid and only one. Who knows...maybe not. Beamer is my furbaby and the first of MANY!


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## Kelmel (Apr 7, 2009)

Ms. Jennifer, 

I wanted to tell you that I completely understand where you are coming from. I think this has become a thread for childfree by choice rather then not. After our third failed IVF we decided not to take the next step and adopted our oldest golden. Right or wrong, she is definitely treated as our child. I wish you the best in your adoption and I know it is difficult state of limbo to be in.


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## DianaM (Feb 18, 2010)

I have nothing against people who want to be parents and love the kids that are close to me, but what drives me the most crazy is people who try to convince others that they should have kid because so-and-so needs a cousin or friend or a certain someone wants to be a grandma. My mom is getting to the point that I don't even want to talk to her. I have also had my cousin, after I babysat her 2 week old, ask me "so, what do you think?" I'm sick of people asking me when we are gonna have one. When we got married 2 years ago, we said it would be at least 3 years. Now that I'm approaching that point, I'm not even close. And I can't stop myself from saying never or making a horrible face when asked now. 

I also got physically angry (heart pounding) when a friend of mine posted on facebook that she was thinking about getting a puppy and her friends, with babies in the profile pic, told her to have a baby instead. I think I started screaming. 

Ok I think I'm done ranting. I needed to let that out somewhere!


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## PrincessDi (Jun 8, 2009)

I didn't read through the whole thread, but my husband and I never got around to having kids. Unfortunately, I have always had to analyze and think about things. So we just never decided to have kids. We're 50 now, so we waited so long it isn't an issue any more. But, my husband found the most beautiful golden at the shelter in 1996, that was going to be put to sleep the next day. It was Orange County, California and they had financial issues. So instead of medicating and treating kennel cough, they euthanized instead. Golda was the bestest thing that we ever brought home with us. With him, we were permanently bitten with the Golden Bug! Next was Max ( thankfully still with us) and Di who we lost 5/21 of this year. We're still devastated. Golda left us at almost 17 4/7/2007 and we are still reeling from his loss.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I wanted kids at one point, but I had a terrible miscarriage and had to work through that and those feelings. All my life, I worked at summer camp and prep school with other people's kids, so I had no illusions about the difficulty of family life at times. Some of the tussles I moderated between parents and their children at school were drastic, and the collateral damage high. It gave me a serious ambivalent streak about it all, which maybe leads me down a road of peace now about not having kids. I do adore having freedom, and there is so much pleasure in going ones own way. For me, dogs are not child substitues and I don't think of myself as a dog parent. I have always been glued to a dog, and "doggie" was my second word as a baby. I took my golden to college, and have always, always had them way before babies and divorces, kids and breakups were serious. They may fill a place that otherwise would feel empty- I do not know. However, I would never be able to live without a dog- no kids or kids. One thing I love about sharing life with goldens is the intense focus on the present moment. It is hard to worry that much about the future and the past when four beautiful golden faces and plumy wagging tails are wishing for a hike!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> For me, dogs are not child substitues and I don't think of myself as a dog parent.


 
:appl::appl::appl::appl::appl::appl:


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

On a side note, my aunt suffered many, many miscarriages before she finally gave up. She told me years ago that she considered it God's way of telling her that she was not meant to have children. And I think that's true. She was very very ill most of her life, and if she had had children things would have been incredibly hard.

Today she is surrounded by nieces and nephews that love her fiercely (myself included!) and she lives with my grandmother and takes care of her. If she had had children, my grandmother would likely be in a home. Who are my aunt's children? Why, her nieces, nephews, and... her cats. Oh, what an abomination!


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

kdmarsh said:


> On a side note, my aunt suffered many, many miscarriages before she finally gave up. She told me years ago that she considered it God's way of telling her that she was not meant to have children. And I think that's true. She was very very ill most of her life, and if she had had children things would have been incredibly hard.
> 
> Today she is surrounded by nieces and nephews that love her fiercely (myself included!) and she lives with my grandmother and takes care of her. If she had had children, my grandmother would likely be in a home. Who are my aunt's children? Why, her nieces, nephews, and... her cats. Oh, what an abomination!



I applaud YOU!! I don't understand the judgmental attitude toward those of us who love our dogs like they are our children. We all are here because we love goldens.. why the harsh judgment?

I totally support those who know they don't want children. I have three beautiful daughters and lost two beautiful babies trying to have them. I adore my grandkids but can only take a few days of them at a time! They exhaust me!!
So my boys are my children.. they are more independent than human kids (They can be left alone for several hours!) but they love me unconditionally and I them!

My attitude is "To each their own and let's not put each other down for their choices!"


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Debles said:


> I applaud YOU!! I don't understand the judgmental attitude toward those of us who love our dogs like they are our children. We all are here because we love goldens.. why the harsh judgment?
> 
> I totally support those who know they don't want children. I have three beautiful daughters and lost two beautiful babies trying to have them. I adore my grandkids but can only take a few days of them at a time! They exhaust me!!
> So my boys are my children.. they are more independent than human kids (They can be left alone for several hours!) but they love me unconditionally and I them!
> ...


*I totally agree with you Debles. *

Too often I see people who shouldn't, IMO be parents, it's really sad.

My husband and I are empty nesters-we have a son that will be 24 in Dec., he's on his own making his way in the world and enjoying his life to the fullest. 

We are enjoing being empty nesters-being able to do what we want when we want and enjoying our dogs. 

What ever your choices are, be happy with it and enjoy life.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Mssjnnfer said:


> The comments that hurt my feelings were the ones that made it sound like people who DO want kids are nuts, or that putting your whole life into children is ridiculous.
> I have nothing against those of you who don't want kids. I respect that. I swear to doG I do. I'm not one of the people who is out there to make you feel bad about not wanting them...
> ... But can you also see where I'm coming from?


I can see it. Nobody likes to hear that what they want to do with their life is ridiculous. And wanting kids certainly isn't ridiculous. Neither is _not_ wanting them. 

I think that people who want or have kids and those who don't are coming from such totally different places that it can be really hard to understand each other. I know it's hard for me to identify with people who want or have kids because I've never felt that desire to have them, myself. I end up thinking "how" and "why" because it's just not something I've ever felt. I have no frame of reference. And likewise, I imagine that those who have kids or want them have a hard time understanding those who don't. I imagine the majority really does look at us and think "How can you not like kids?", "How can you not _want_ kids?" When there's such a big philosophical gap, in such an emotional issue, I think it's easy for hackles to get raised on both sides.
It's like anything else, I guess. People need to live and let live. 



Shalva said:


> I agree... I totally don't get offended if someone says they don't like or afraid of my dogs... everyone is different and that is fine... but parents or parents to be get soooo offended when someone says that they don't like or want children... like somehow that is a personal affront... I am with you... I totally don't get that....


I usually assume that people _don't_ want to be bothered by my dog. I go out of my way to make sure that he doesn't annoy anyone, or make anyone nervous. It never offends me, either. But whenever we encounter kids, it seems like the parents expect me to think they're cute. They can be running back and forth in front of Riley, squealing and teasing him, and the parent always smiles and looks at me, just waiting for me to say something nice. I always wonder how they'd feel if I let Riley run up to them and run circles around them, barking his fool head off. Somehow, I don't think they'd find it cute. But it's that philosophical gap again. I get that not everyone is crazy about dogs. So many parents seem floored by the idea that not everyone is all that wild about kids.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Our kids all have 4 legs and a tail. For a while we were a two horse, two dog family, but now no horses... but 4 dogs. 

My choice to not have children is, 1) I am way too selfish, and 2) I never "enjoyed" small children. Everyone told me it would be different when it is your own, my concern was "what if it's not?" I did not want to have a child and not want it. A risk I was not willing to make for a child. 

It's funny now though. I feel like a soccer mom. My dogs have so many activities we are running here and there shuttling the dogs around to handle their lives. I wouldn't miss it for the world... just wish I were a bit younger so I don't get so worn out.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Debles said:


> My attitude is "To each their own and let's not put each other down for their choices!"


I think that's a beautiful attitude. I don't understand why some people are so rabidly against the idea that some of us consider our dogs our children. Sure, I don't put clothes on Flora or expect her to go to college, but she is my friend, my companion, and yes, *gasp!* my "child". I feed her, shelter her, take her to the doctor when she's sick, and play with her when she's bored. What's so wrong with that?

And hey, if I can find a man who's willing to stay home and take care of our children, I may have a kid or two in the future!  But I'm not giving up my future career for a child, no ma'am, and I am not going to let a nanny raise my baby.


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## Deb_Bayne (Mar 18, 2011)

Megora said:


> Um, good example of behavior that drives me nuts -
> 
> There were some young girls there who pretended to be afraid of him, for who knows what reason. They reacted to him about the same way that some girls pretend to react to spiders or mice. Meaning they would wander up close not noticing him and then they would scream.


They are called Drama Queens and rarely grow out of it and end up on TV Reality shows.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

I don't understand, so many things on this forum, goes from someone asking a question, or saying what has happened to them, to someone causing trouble.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

It's not about "judging" or "animosity" at all, but rather about the reality of being a breeder and fighting for the right to continue to be. Calling our dogs "children" and "furr kids" etc, is used by animal rights extremists _against _us, and our right to breed and even own pets. Trust me. It doesn't mean I love my dogs any less than those of you who choose not to have children or who call your pets your kids and yourself their parents. It's part of the fight that so many people who blissfully have pets don't understand actually affects them, too.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

kdmarsh said:


> I think that's a beautiful attitude. I don't understand why some people are so rabidly against the idea that some of us consider our dogs our children. Sure, I don't put clothes on Flora or expect her to go to college, but she is my friend, my companion, and yes, *gasp!* my "child". I feed her, shelter her, take her to the doctor when she's sick, and play with her when she's bored. What's so wrong with that?
> 
> And hey, if I can find a man who's willing to stay home and take care of our children, I may have a kid or two in the future!  But I'm not giving up my future career for a child, no ma'am, and I am not going to let a nanny raise my baby.


Good for you! Times have certainly changed and I think for the better in so many ways, for one there are so many more opportunities for women.


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## Deb_Bayne (Mar 18, 2011)

I don't think of Bayne or my cats as my children, but I do call them 'My Boys'.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

IF one wants to think of their dogs, as children, it is no ones business.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> It's not about "judging" or "animosity" at all, but rather about the reality of being a breeder and fighting for the right to continue to be. Calling our dogs "children" and "furr kids" etc, is used by animal rights extremists _against _us, and our right to breed and even own pets. Trust me. It doesn't mean I love my dogs any less than those of you who choose not to have children or who call your pets your kids and yourself their parents. It's part of the fight that so many people who blissfully have pets don't understand actually affects them, too.


This is something, I must admit (and apologize for) I turn my head. I do understand there is a group of people out there making life "heck" for many. Without knowing the details, there is too much "legislation" trying to be passed to ban breeds, mandatory spay/neuter laws... etc. Because they don't "effect" me, I don't really pay attention. I guess that is not a good thing. Once they get to the breeders and "banning" breeds, dog ownership is the next they will attack. It's not just PETA, though they are the known group. 

I do call my dogs my children but more than anything I consider myself a responsible pet owner. Regular vet checks, exercise, ample food... I love having my dogs, and would fight for them. So I guess I need to pay more attention to some of the "stuff" the groups are saying. Thanks for your comment PG!


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> It's not about "judging" or "animosity" at all, but rather about the reality of being a breeder and fighting for the right to continue to be. Calling our dogs "children" and "furr kids" etc, is used by animal rights extremists _against _us, and our right to breed and even own pets. Trust me. It doesn't mean I love my dogs any less than those of you who choose not to have children or who call your pets your kids and yourself their parents. It's part of the fight that so many people who blissfully have pets don't understand actually affects them, too.



I guess I am ignorant to this issue. What would they rather us call our dogs? Our animal slaves? (I jest.) I assume what they would rather is that we don't own animals at all and let all the dogs and cats and ferrets and goldfish run and swim free through the urbanized wilderness that we call home. Those activists are silly and spend way too much time decrying something that doesn't need nor want their attention. It's a shame they're making it difficult for breeders (well... legitimate breeders, that is.)


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

goldensrbest said:


> IF one wants to think of their dogs, as children, it is no ones business.


 
You don't think that I would to never even give it a second thought? I would _love _for it to be "nobody's business", but the sad thing is that it something that breeders and pet owners and _any_one in an animal related industry has to be concerned with. Turning a blind eye to it doesn't make the reality of the PETA's and H$U$'s of the world, with a LOT of money and power behind them, making it "their business" to end our rights to breed and own pets (thus affecting veterinarians, police, the disabled who need service dogs, ranchers, etc etc). And do you know that there is a whole new are of law and attorneys who can represent your dog and his own "interests" - often NOT to your advantage? Blurring the line between people and animals is a slippery slope.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> You don't think that I would to never even give it a second thought? I would _love _for it to be "nobody's business", but the sad thing is that it something that breeders and pet owners and _any_one in an animal related industry has to be concerned with. Turning a blind eye to it doesn't make the reality of the PETA's and H$U$'s of the world, with a LOT of money and power behind them, making it "their business" to end our rights to breed and own pets (thus affecting veterinarians, police, the disabled who need service dogs, ranchers, etc etc). And do you know that there is a whole new are of law and attorneys who can represent your dog and his own "interests" - often NOT to your advantage? Blurring the line between people and animals is a slippery slope.


I am not well versed in this arena... I understand the basics of why referring to them as kids is not a good idea...although I will acknowledge calling them the kids amongst friends and family... 

BUT 

Pointgold would you mind giving a short primer for those of us like myself who are not well versed in this area... and to the pet folks who were not aware of the issues regarding ownership vs. guardianship etc. 

I could take a shot at it but my guess is that my response would not be as comprehensive as someone like yourself who is better versed in this area 

s


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

The thread, is not about breeders, it is about people that have no kids, and have dogs, that is what this is about, you , are a person first, human, not breeder first, no one is saying breeders have it easy, you have a big job, but do it in a seperate thread.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

goldensrbest said:


> The thread, is not about breeders, it is about people that have no kids, and have dogs, that is what this is about, you , are a person first, human, not breeder first, no one is saying breeders have it easy, you have a big job, but do it in a seperate thread.


 
Gee, thank you so much.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Shalva said:


> I am not well versed in this arena... I understand the basics of why referring to them as kids is not a good idea...although I will acknowledge calling them the kids amongst friends and family...
> 
> BUT
> 
> ...


It's been made clear that my posts aren't germane.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

I would like to see that thread PG. The crazy people are not as prevelant here as in the bigger cities, but it would be an interesting read, and give me something to watch out for. 

I for the most part don't think of, or refer to, my dogs as kids, however there are times, in a certain crowd, where I will. Whenever I find DH allowing one of the dogs getting away with something (like not moving off our lap when we want to get up) I tell him we are the human, they are the dog.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

goldensrbest said:


> The thread, is not about breeders, it is about people that have no kids, and have dogs, that is what this is about, you , are a person first, human, not breeder first, no one is saying breeders have it easy, you have a big job, but do it in a seperate thread.


I disagree completely! I think PointGold is bringing up an important point and giving us all something extremely important to think about. She is not complaining about her problems as a breeder, but pointing out the potential downfall of referring to our dogs as our "children," which is in fact the topic of this thread. I for one am happy to hear anything she has to say about this issue because it is not and area I am well versed in. If she does take this topic to another thread, which I don't think she needs to, I will be interested in reading it from start to finish.


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## Jamm (Mar 28, 2010)

vcm5 said:


> I disagree completely! I think PointGold is bringing up an important point and giving us all something extremely important to think about. She is not complaining about her problems as a breeder, but pointing out the potential downfall of referring to our dogs as our "children," which is in fact the topic of this thread. I for one am happy to hear anything she has to say about this issue because it is not and area I am well versed in. If she does take this topic to another thread, which I don't think she needs to, I will be interested in reading it from start to finish.


Couldn't have said it better myself.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Pointgold said:


> It's not about "judging" or "animosity" at all, but rather about the reality of being a breeder and fighting for the right to continue to be. Calling our dogs "children" and "furr kids" etc, is used by animal rights extremists _against _us, and our right to breed and even own pets. Trust me. It doesn't mean I love my dogs any less than those of you who choose not to have children or who call your pets your kids and yourself their parents. It's part of the fight that so many people who blissfully have pets don't understand actually affects them, too.


I'm not criticizing this point, but I beg people don't lump me and other dog moms in with the nuts.  All of that legislation and nutgathering especially affects trainers as well and people who want to compete with their dogs. And it affects our rights and freedoms as dog owners. 

I'm aware of that, but still refer to my dogs as my babies. Because I know I'm not an animal activist out to see organized dog clubs shut down and purebreds completely replaced by random mixes. 

They're my babies because of the emotional bond I have to them. The fact that they are given more freedom and "rights" than any of our other animals. The fact that we truly love and mourn them, even many years after they have gone. 

When people refer to dedicated dog owners like me as nuts because our dogs are so central to our lives, it isn't quite nice. Same thing with saying it isn't possible for dogs and other animals to fill any mothering needs. They do that quite nicely.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

goldensrbest said:


> The thread, is not about breeders, it is about people that have no kids, and have dogs, that is what this is about, you , are a person first, human, not breeder first, no one is saying breeders have it easy, you have a big job, but do it in a seperate thread.



that was incredibly rude.... but I am seeing a trend... I think that just the title of this thread "animal only parents" makes the discussion of why it is not a good idea to refer to ourselves as Parents or the dogs as kids very pertinent to the title of the thread... if I were well versed in it I would do it myself despite the comments above by the thread police....


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> It's been made clear that my posts aren't germane.


yeah well when has that ever stopped you? 

if I started a new thread would you answer it???


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

You are not going to stop people ,from thinking of themselves as parents of dogs, and why should they? Not a thing wrong with it at all, there is a breeders area on the forum.


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## knepp1bj (Jun 25, 2009)

well i will try to get this thread back on topic..

my g/f and i are animal only parrents...we will be marired in the next couple of years when the financials are in order and we do not plan on having kids.

if it happens by mistake it happens, we wont be mad. but were not going to plan on having any...

we enjoy our dogs and 1 cat so its all good


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Amongst friends, I will call myself mommy of my dogs. In an official capacity I am their owner.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

goldensrbest said:


> You are not going to stop people ,from thinking of themselves as parents of dogs, and why should they? Not a thing wrong with it at all, there is a breeders area on the forum.



why should they??? well maybe if you had listened instead of spouting off you would have let pointgold answer that question and educated yourself a little.... 

and that is not a breeders only question just for the record it is a general dog ownership issue... important to anyone who has a companion animal ....


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I think PG's point was certainly relevant to the discussion. And for what it's worth, I am my dogs' owner not their parent or guardian.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

This article is pretty interesting concerning how different words describing our relationships with our dogs can make a huge difference (there's a lot more about it on line):

Opinion - Dog "Owner" versus "Guardian" - Words Matter! | All Dogs Academy | Rdquo, Animal, Rights, Would, Dog


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

kwhit said:


> This article is pretty interesting concerning how different words describing our relationships with our dogs can make a huge difference (there's a lot more about it on line):
> 
> Opinion - Dog "Owner" versus "Guardian" - Words Matter! | All Dogs Academy | Rdquo, Animal, Rights, Would, Dog



HA HA HA HA HA HA .... that is too funny.... that is written by a friend of mine lolol and a good friend at that... how come I was the last to know...


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## Deb_Bayne (Mar 18, 2011)

Some people will refer to me when talking to Bayne as his mommy, I will correct them and inform them that I did not give birth to him. We are Deb & Bryan not mommy and daddy, if we wanted to be called that then we would have had kids together. Bryan has a son from a prior relationship (30 yrs old) and he calls me Deb not mom as in stepmom. When I talk to Bayne to look for Bryan I call him by name. I was not raised thinking of our pets as humans or children, they weren't my little brother or sister and my parents were not mom and dad to them, they used their names and so did us kids when getting the dog to look for them.


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

Deb_Bayne said:


> Some people will refer to me when talking to Bayne as his mommy, I will correct them and inform them that I did not give birth to him..


My husband does this once in a while, tell one of the dogs to go to Mommy. I cringe a little, and correct him. I'm not the dogs Mom, I have four children, and lots of grandchildren. I love my dogs, take care of them, make sure they are happy and healthy, but the love I feel for them cannot compare to the love I feel for my children. Thinking about some of the stuff my kids have put me thru over the years, it might have been easier at times to have only dogs. I don't mind if people like to think of themselves as their dogs parents, to each his own, for me, though, I am my dogs owner and caregiver. 

Donna


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

I call my mom and dad my dogs grandparents, that way they get treasures on their birthdays and Christmas!


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

We are mom, and dad ,to our dogs.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

DNL2448 said:


> I call my mom and dad my dogs grandparents, that way they get treasures on their birthdays and Christmas!


ROFL, I do the same thing. My dogs get a stocking and gifts for Christmas every year from "Grammy and Paw-Paw." :


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> I will correct them and inform them that I did not give birth to him. We are Deb & Bryan not mommy and daddy


You know it's funny, but this made me really think about what I call myself to other people, what I call my dog, and what people refer to me when talking to my dog.

My dog knows me as "your Katie". I don't call myself that. That's what my mom says when I'm coming home or if she's sending him away to me.

I tell Jacks that he's my BAYBEEEE. Which drives the 'human babies only' people nuts because I also refer to him as my baby boy. And yes, I tell everyone that I'm his mother. 

Now my mom is Jacks' mom. Meaning, when I say, "Where's mommy?", he goes running to find my mom.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

goldensrbest said:


> You are not going to stop people ,from thinking of themselves as parents of dogs, and why should they? Not a thing wrong with it at all, there is a breeders area on the forum.


I think that this is a little bit rude. PointGold does NOT need to leave this thread and go to the "breeders area" because this is absolutely not just an issue for breeders, it is an issue for anyone who owns a dog. Animal rights activists are not just trying to limit breeders, they are trying to limit dog ownership as well, which is why this is important for ALL of us and should not be relegated to the "breeders area." PointGold, I hope you will return and tell us more about this.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

Loisiana said:


> Amongst friends, I will call myself mommy of my dogs. In an official capacity I am their owner.


Same. I am actually interested in reading the article... I've never thought any harm could come from using different terms to describe my relationship with my dog? Referring to myself and Ben as puppy parents kind of started due to our parents referring to him as their "grandpuppy" in their woe of not having human grandchildren. So then we became "mom" and "dad"..even the vet used it before we did. Now it's more of a personal statement than anything else. I know a lot of people (not here, obviously) who think that the devotion, time, and effort I put into my dog is obsessive and pointless and should be reserved for children. Referring to ourselves as puppy parents is our way of establishing that Iorek is, in fact, a huge part of our world and is just as valuable to us as children are to hypothetical you. Sometimes they interpret it correctly, sometimes they don't, but it still makes us feel better.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I generally call Flip "little butt" although that is sometimes changed to "pain in the butt" 

My mom will often refer to the dogs as my babies...as in "how's your babies?" I never find myself calling them my babies or my kids though. They are just "the dogs." I do often refer to myself as mommy but will never demand that title or attempt to make it official. I won't make it too easy for the AR groups..


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Shalva, i understand, BUT NOT WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT, people thinking of them selves, as dog parents, or calling their dogs their, kids, not having human kids, i am my dogs mom, my husband is dad, or daddy, that is the way it is.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

I think this thread has gotten a little wonky. I can understand PG's point of view, it just took me a while to get there. I don't see why we should drive her out of this discussion. But now we're verging into PC land - what's politically correct and what's not. The whole argument that we didn't give birth to our dogs is silly - adoptive parents didn't give birth to their adopted child, does that mean they cannot call their child THEIR child? Of course, it is a different situation since humans are humans and dogs are, well... dogs.  

I don't fantasize that Flora is actually my child, my flesh and blood, but to me she is the one creature that utterly depends on me for food, shelter, healthcare and love. To some people that's just a pet. To me, she's my baby! To each his/her own. 

Side story - another one of my aunts (who is childless) told me this story about when she was at work one day, all of the women there were pulling out pictures of their kids and oohing and ahhing. My aunt, ever the sarcastic one, wandered over and asked them if they wanted to see her kids. She then proceeded to pull out pictures of Elwood and Jake, her two Persian kitties.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Deleted post...


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

I've always called Riley "baby" and etc but now that I hear the arguments against it I will definitely read up on this issue and make an informed decision. Everyone can make their own decisions, but it is not right to try to drive someone away who is just trying to give us one side of the story.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

goldensrbest said:


> Shalva, i understand, BUT NOT WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT, people thinking of them selves, as dog parents, or calling their dogs their, kids, not having human kids, i am my dogs mom, my husband is dad, or daddy, that is the way it is.


conversations evolve... get over it.... 

as soon as the original poster used the word parents... it opened the door.... 

and it is a pertinent discussion NOT JUST FOR BREEDERS!!!


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

For the record, this discussion actually does/has come up in childfree communities. Many have pets rather than children and there's inner debate about the titles that go along with that from a psychological level, but hearing it brought up in terms of legality/breeding is new! It's not super offtopic. I don't think goldensrbest was being rude though... I think she was just trying to be sensitive to those that consider themselves dog moms and dads/defending our ability to do that. Keep calm and carry on, folks!


(I posted the article that was shared here to FB, btw)


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Geeze this thread has gone off the deep end.

I am my dogs' owner officially and we call each other their mom and dad.. our babies. I am not ignorant and know what the HSUS etc are trying to do and am appalled. But it's not going to change the way I am with my boys or how much I grieve and miss Selka. (and if you want to avoid my Selka thread.. skip it!)


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

LifeOfRiley said:


> Ditto!
> I've had people look at me like I have two heads when I say it, but the truth is, I don't like kids. Never have.
> I can look at some of them and think they're cute, but that's about the extent of it. I don't care to be around them, mainly because (like you said) I really don't know what to do with them. I have no maternal instincts, whatsoever! Not for human kids, anyway.
> 
> ...


Thank you for making me laugh so hard I woke up Max!

I have a couple of nieces who bought into the "you must give birth or your life won't be complete!' nonsense - and they are the hands down worse parents I've ever met, next to my ex-daughter-in-law, but that's a whole nother story. I applaud people who realize that having children is not for them and don't give into pressure. And I equally applaud those who love and adore the little monsters and are very good parents.


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## mist (Jun 23, 2007)

closing this now it's just going around and around in circles


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