# 4mo old puppy only listens if we have a treat!



## AshleyR (Sep 4, 2008)

Our puppy Tessa is pretty well trained - within the first week of us having her she knew how to sit, stay, come, rollover, and a few others... we were impressed!

We've trained her by rewarding her with small treats every time she does something right. It works WONDERS when we have the treats in our hands, but lately - if she knows we don't have a treat, she won't listen to us at all! She just stares at us like "Uh huh, get me my treat and I'll do it!"  It is at the point where we can't even get her attention when we're calling commands unless we first say "TREAT?!"

Anyone know how we can get her to listen at ALL times, and not just when we have a treat? We KNOW she knows the commands (she's 4 months now and we practice with her every day) - she just doesn't want to listen unless she's going to get something out of it!

???


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

The problem is, you can't give her treats and then take them away without progression.
Start by having her do commands with treats and every so often don't give her one. I call this the 'jackpot method'. Slowly give her less and less. Eventually she will do commands without them. It does take time though.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

She is still very young. nixietink has a great suggestion with slowly phasing out the treats rather than expecting her to go cold turkey.


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## jnmarr (Mar 7, 2008)

I also use " life rewards". Meaning... She wants to go out ( or get a scratch, her food, etc ) have her sit, or give5 or down, or watch.. what ever floats your boat at the moment. Try to inject training throughout her day, not just as trick sessions. Give the treat still now and then.. even humans will put coins in the one armed bandit for a long hoping to win... Lots of happy praise, a squeaky session all is good. I use treats still most with recall. They will stop and come bounding to me with tongues hanging out and big happy smiles. I don't compete.. I just want them to come when I call. Sometimes I call, then release.. showing them every time I call doesn't mean the fun is over.


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## tino4ever (May 12, 2008)

i kind of got the same problem with my doggie. he has also lost abit of intresti n my treats , so even if i have treats around, it becoems a little "don't care about you!"-thing. anyway, things'll work out , i supose.
my doggie is 3 years old.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

AshleyR said:


> Anyone know how we can get her to listen at ALL times, and not just when we have a treat? We KNOW she knows the commands (*she's 4 months* now and we practice with her every day) - she just doesn't want to listen unless she's going to get something out of it!
> 
> ???


That's what pups tend to do at 4-6 months of age. That is a normal period of canine adolescence. She's becoming independent. 

I'm an advocate of treat training for pups. It's a form of Operant Conditioning, which is a terrific mechanism. But the more character your pup has, the stronger will be her resistance to your control over her as she moves through her teenage time in life.

We usually start the formal training process for pups at around 5-6 months of age. They've all had the treat/operant beginning, so they know the standard commands and functions. But now we need to grow up.

Click this link, and scroll down to the article titled 
Cause and Effect
_Trouble Shooting Training Problems_

By Evan Graham​
http://rushcreekpress.com/page6articles.html

This will give you some insight into a level of training with which you may not yet be familiar.

EvanG


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

AshleyR said:


> Our puppy Tessa is pretty well trained - within the first week of us having her she knew how to sit, stay, come, rollover, and a few others... we were impressed!
> 
> We've trained her by rewarding her with small treats every time she does something right. It works WONDERS when we have the treats in our hands, but lately - if she knows we don't have a treat, she won't listen to us at all! She just stares at us like "Uh huh, get me my treat and I'll do it!"  It is at the point where we can't even get her attention when we're calling commands unless we first say "TREAT?!"
> 
> ...


Yes, that will often happen when food is used "incorrectly". As soon as possible you want to transition from the food on the dog's nose to help lure into position to the food hidden in your pocket, etc. and using hand signals. Then you can also start a nothing in life is free program where your pup earns "life rewards" vs cookies while also saying "please" for the things he wants: you to attach the leash, open the door, throw the ball, etc.

Of course she doesn't want to listen unless she gets something out of it. She's a dog. They NEVER work just to make us happy - there's always gotta be something in it for her. You just want to widen her menu of "good stuff" so she's working for things other than cookies.

Also, when using "life rewards" also use cookies, but use the cookies sometimes. Intermittent reinforcement (meaning using a cookie only once in a while vs. all the time) is a great way to strengthen behaviors. Just keep them hidden. Use them as a reward for a job well done, but not to "bribe" a dog into doing something.


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## GoldenOwner12 (Jun 18, 2008)

[QUOTEOf course she doesn't want to listen unless she gets something out of it. She's a dog. They NEVER work just to make us happy - there's always gotta be something in it for her.][/QUOTE]

Is it me or do i have funny dogs then, My 2 goldens sit,drop,come,stay without the use of food rewards. My dogs rewards are good boy or good girl and a pat. But then i never started using food rewards not even in the begining of training. My 2 know how to sit and drop with the click of my fingers. So basicly my dogs are working for a pat and told there good. I believe if you want to gradually take the food rewards away, and use praise and pats then just start out out using pats and praise don't use food. The obedience clubs around here can't believe how well behaved and manered my Einstein is. They all believe i took my dog a high qualified obedience trainer, They were shocked when i said no i trained him myself. Then they said you must have used alot of food to get him to do that again i said No i never use food when training, They get pated and told there a good boy or girl.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

[QUOTEOf course she doesn't want to listen unless she gets something out of it. She's a dog. They NEVER work just to make us happy - there's always gotta be something in it for her.][/quote]

_Is it me or do i have funny dogs then, My 2 goldens sit,drop,come,stay without the use of food rewards. My dogs rewards are good boy or good girl and a pat._

Your dogs still aren't working for *free*. They're working for praise and petting. My point is that they *never* work just for the helluva it. There's *always* something in it for them. They wouldn't have survived as a spcies w/o being that way.

Yes, many dogs will work just fine for petting and praise. My point was that it was totally normal for her dog to look at her with the, "Hey, what's in it for me?" attitude.


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

I train my goldens for show in obedience, agility, rally, and juniors. You will only be successful if you can wean off of the treats. There are 3 ways a treat is used in training: a lure, a reward, and a bribe. It sounds like you are using treats as a bribe, a common mistake made by novice trainers. Since my goldens are going places, I only use treats as a lure to teach them what position is correct (a correct set up for heeling, pivots, tighter about turns, etc.). I am definitly not agaisnt using treats, but I have gotten to the point where I know my girls will perform even if mom forgot to bring treats to class! Keep in mind that in competition, (obedience, rally, and agility) no treats or training aids of any kind are allowed in the ring.

I would start treating only every second time and then every three-four times until you are only treating ocassionally. Teach your golden to watch you by putting the treats in your mouth (yes, you may have to do this!) and spitting the treats at the exact moment that your golden watches you. You can build up attention time by waiting as your puppy grasps the concept. I enjoy this method because the dog never knows if you have treats in your mouth or not. Works well for training for shows.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions and I will be glad to answer and/or give any of my opinions/suggestions.

Emily and the golden girls: Aubrie and Layla


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