# Biting/Nipping/Jumping still....



## Cyrra (Oct 30, 2009)

So I'm asking for some advice on how to handle Finn's biting/nipping and jumping issues. When he jumps our trainer told us to to turn our back on him and cross our arms. When he sits turn around and treat. That's all find and dandy but his latest trick is now when he jumps, I turn my back, and he has taken to biting/nipping me in the backside or legs or basically what ever he can get his now adult teeth on too. Any insight because it down right hurts and then just frustrates me which I am sure escalates the situation.

This doesn't always occur in one particular place. I would give him a time out in his crate but many times this occurs outside too. /sigh


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## Cyrra (Oct 30, 2009)

I also wanted to clarify that Finn is attending training classes for his CGC right now and I will ask my trainer for more tips as well but wanted to additional advice.

I do think he will pass his CGC because when we are training he seems to know it. It's like a switch is flipped and he knows when it's time to work he becomes the star pupil, this issue is occuring when were not "working" and were just hanging around the house or in the yard playing. I didn't want him in "working" mode all the time for fear he will start to slack and not want to train as hard when we are in "working" mode.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

1) We need to think about specific context this occurs in and train for it.
2) We need a plan for what to do when he does this. It sounds like your current plan is not working so well.
3) We need to work REALLY hard to prevent this from occuring.

Can you share 4-5 situations where this might happen, then we can look at what to do, not do, and how to prevent? Can you tell when he's about to get silly?


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## zephyr (Sep 29, 2009)

I really feel your pain (literally! ouch! :no. Oscar STILL does this, and honestly, I'm really still struggling with it. (So I'd appreciate any advice from others as well!) But, I will tell you what has (and hasn't) worked for me!

Oscar's is, as best I am able to characterize it, based on many helpful GRF threads  a "conflict behavior", when he is stressed or frustrated, when he doesn't know what else to do, or he thinks it is a means to SOME end (what exactly I'm still not certain). He ONLY does this with me. He had almost stopped doing it on our outside walks, but it came back when we started a new round of obedience classes. :doh::doh::doh: Argh. (Which of course is HIGHLY embarassing...) For Oscar, he bites at my hand where I'm holding the leash, or bites the bunched-up leash, or bites at my arm.  He also makes moany/growly/snarly noises. Frankly he also makes those sounds when he's trying to get you to play with him sooo it doesn't phase me anymore... though I will say it does sound pretty scary if you hear it for the first time :uhoh:

Here's what I've tried at various times, and why (of course please let me know if I'm doing something wrong or missing something!):

- Yelp once (or say OUCH loudly), just as you would for a little puppy biting you, and walk away. Drop the leash (if you can safely, of course!) or hand him off to someone else. If it happens on a walk, I step on the leash, or if he is being really bad, just turn around and go home. Biting me = no walk, no play. (The part I'm really NOT sure about is whether I'm supposed to act like or acknowledge that his gnawing hurts me (which it often does!). I feel like sometimes that just gives him my attention which is what he is trying to get--?!)

- No hand waving, pleading, pushing him away, etc... those are all forms of attention, and he's trying to engage you.

- If you are really desperate for relief on a walk or somewhere else where you can't just drop the leash, Oscar always seems extremely happy and eager to switch from arm-biting to leash-tugging. I think there is some *BIG* connection here that I don't fully understand, but it generally works if I need him to stop chewing on me ASAP! However, I don't want to be "rewarding" him biting me with a game of leash-tug, so I try to avoid this if possible... 

From my obedience class instructor:

- Practice "lie down" OVER AND OVER AND OVER again so it becomes a very natural, default behavior, that he will respond to your command to even in the heat of his 'nuttiness'! (I find Oscar is totally NOT listening to anything I say when he gets like this, so I usually wait until he has calmed down a bit before asking for a behavior... I don't want my commands to be ignored so I try not to ask for them when I know they won't be followed...?)

- Give him a "time out" with a toy so he can relax/get his biting out on something else for a minute, then go back to whatever you were doing (for us, usually training, or walking). Pull out the toy, then ask for a SIT/DOWN before you give it to him so you can reward the GOOD behavior, not the biting itself.

And finally (for Oscar, anyway):

- 95% of the time it happens, he is (1) on-leash, (2) hasn't had enough off-leash exercise, and (3) is 'frustrated' when he isn't free to go see another dog or person, stop walking when he wants to, or NOT moving when he wants to be moving (e.g. we stop to talk to someone). (I hate to ascribing people emotions to a dog, but to me he seems very... sassy, and disrespectful, and cranky like a little kid! :doh So I recommend lots of exercise PLUS multiple shorter on-leash walks to build up positive on-leash experiences WITHOUT allowing him opportunities to get cranky and/or playful. I can tell you Oscar used to start this as SOON as we walked out of the door, and now, it only happens very rarely, in those situations I discussed previously (i.e. dog classes). I just kept up the walks and made sure he got lots of exercise. For us it IS definitely getting better, but, still not "solved"!

Sorry that was long! but I hope there is something helpful in there, or at least some sympathy


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Ali, that is a FABULOUS post!


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## zephyr (Sep 29, 2009)

RedDogs said:


> Ali, that is a FABULOUS post!


Oh!!! Thanks! : LOL

I think  what I am doing is working because it *IS* happening much less, overall. I just hope that's an actual trend! I just have to remember my own advice when it happens, and think: "he's just a dog (and really, still a baby one at that!) -- you are a human -- don't panic -- you do know what to do!"

And I forgot to say before... my obedience trainer said he gets like this when he is "overstimulated," which I think that is a really good way of putting it. They are so young and so excitable and they have so much energy, it doesn't always get channeled in the ways we want it. I guess I always try and tell myself: play-biting other dogs and making crazy noises is totally normal in DOG play. But it's not okay to do it to people! But they aren't born knowing that, I need to communicate that to him (since apparently he thinks it's all GREAT fun :doh

And Cyrra, I just wanted to say that I think it's fabulous that you & Finn are going for his CGC, and I really believe that if he can be so good in "working mode," as you say, he will learn to stop doing this in play mode as well. He's so young and I'm certain you will see a difference soon, so long as you are consistent, which it sounds like you're doing! I know MY frustration is actually the hardest thing to overcome, so I totally know what you mean (... they can just be sooo obnoxious sometimes!)


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## jmamom (Dec 3, 2009)

Josie did this at about 5 months. I made sure I always had a treat in my pocket. I would get her attention with it, then give her a series of commands (sit, down, stay, etc) until she refocused and calmed down. Worked great! After a short time, she stopped doing it completely. Until...
She started doing this again!!!! It started with the really nice weather. She's been running around alot more in the yard off her leash, playing in the pool, and then she would get so wound up, she'd come jumping and nipping at me. It so caught me off guard, because I thought we had this solved!!! So now she's back to dragging a leash in the yard, treats in my pockets at all times, and extra training sessions. It's working again, she's much easier to refocus now then she was 2 weeks ago.
I agree with you Zephyr, I think its overstimulation. I try to prevent it when possible, but when it happens I try to stay calm and positive, and she usually responds in kind. Usually.:uhoh:


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## Cyrra (Oct 30, 2009)

Thank you so very much. We were away for the holiday weekend so I will report more after work. But after what I experienced the past four days I do think it has something to do with either too much pent up energy or overstimulation as you mentioned because this weekend was wonderful!


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## beccacc31 (Aug 17, 2009)

Kevin and I have been going through this as well. I feel as though I have tried everything and what seems to be working is, Wilson goes to a private trainer 8hrs a day two days a week for the last two weeks. We also.... ignore him completly when we first see him and we advise any house guests to do the same. No eye contact, no hello, nothing for like 10-15 minutes. We have also been making a point to take him many places where there are people and noises. Yesterday we brought him to the memorial day parade in town, where there were loads of people, marching bands and canons. He got stimulated but he stayed in control.
The key to our success really has been to totally ignore him. Don't get me wrong, he still has moments where the switch gets thrown and he starts up but the episodes have decreased dramatically.


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## GoldenSummer (Mar 26, 2010)

Hmm... Maybe I am a little mean but I find it effective to simply move, as soon as he looks like he is about to jump I say "No" if he does jump and I don't want him to I move so he goes up and has nothing to make contact with and goes back down, I then tell him to sit and give him a pat. Otherwise another effective way is to simply make a loud high pitched sound, it startles them and if you can distract him right away from then, he tends to forget what he was doing lol. Another way I've heard of which might be helpful for you since he is getting bigger is to simply lift your knee and cross it against you, he will bounce off it and end up on the ground again, tell him down or sit and pat or treat. Those are ways I'd suggest trying, its really about seeing what he responds to better. Personally I find Tyson does good with the "no" or "off" then "sit" and pat/treat. Maybe it would be good to see if others in the household are allowing it to happen without correcting, it could be that she just needs the constancy. 

Good Luck and keep us updated on how its going. 

P.S. I babysat my cousins dog a few years ago, he was about 3 or 4 I think? Anyways I kept him in my room at night and got the fun experience of waking up to him biting my butt to let me know he wanted to go outside lol. Anyways I can totally understand the ouchness of getting the butt bit! Hopefully its something that can be corrected quickly or you might need a pillow before sitting


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## beccacc31 (Aug 17, 2009)

GoldenSummer said:


> Hmm... Maybe I am a little mean but I find it effective to simply move, as soon as he looks like he is about to jump I say "No" if he does jump and I don't want him to I move so he goes up and has nothing to make contact with and goes back down, I then tell him to sit and give him a pat. Otherwise another effective way is to simply make a loud high pitched sound, it startles them and if you can distract him right away from then, he tends to forget what he was doing lol. Another way I've heard of which might be helpful for you since he is getting bigger is to simply lift your knee and cross it against you, he will bounce off it and end up on the ground again, tell him down or sit and pat or treat. Those are ways I'd suggest trying, its really about seeing what he responds to better. Personally I find Tyson does good with the "no" or "off" then "sit" and pat/treat. Maybe it would be good to see if others in the household are allowing it to happen without correcting, it could be that she just needs the constancy.
> 
> Good Luck and keep us updated on how its going.
> 
> P.S. I babysat my cousins dog a few years ago, he was about 3 or 4 I think? Anyways I kept him in my room at night and got the fun experience of waking up to him biting my butt to let me know he wanted to go outside lol. Anyways I can totally understand the ouchness of getting the butt bit! Hopefully its something that can be corrected quickly or you might need a pillow before sitting


When Wilson starts to jump, we do make him sit. Ignoring him upon first contact seems to keep him from jumping to begin with. I find that his jumping and biting can be so spontaneous. All in all I have seen great improvement with him in the last couple of weeks. I really believe it's all about the energy.


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## Cyrra (Oct 30, 2009)

I definately feel this is an energy issue. The butt biting has only happened twice but both days it was not long after I got home from work (where he had been cooped up most of the day). Of course I posted because I was reacting to the frustration I felt. I spoke to my trainer after class last Thur and she gave me some pointers but we both agree that these moments of intensity is lack of exercise. Of course we discussed this issue AFTER she told me that if I wanted she would have passed him for his CGC that night, to which I declined. I feel the more we train the better he behaves because he's in "working" mode and I have already told her to add us to the waiting list for what ever she's teaching next lol.

Either way we went away to camp for the holiday weekend where Finn had all the freedom he could stand. He has both a river and a pond to swim until he can't go anymore and he definately took advantage of both. At one point he actually started to worry me as he was basicaly swimming laps for over 20 minutes straight before he came to shore. There was absolutely no bratty moments during the entire weekend. He passed out each evening and slept in longer then I have ever known him to sleep in since we got him.

I really believe we just need to keep working on exercising him as much as possible to curb the bouts of over enthusiasm. The problem I foresee coming is exercising when it's warm out. He doesn't do well with heat and unfortunately we can only go to camp every other weekend so I guess we will try taking our walks later in the evening once it cools down and just hope that we can get through the dinner hours without incident.


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