# Pros/Cons of Spaying..



## skylielover (Sep 27, 2008)

I searched the forum about spaying, but it left me wondering when is the best time to spay?  I found out some believe it is better before the first heat and some believe it is better after..

Could someone explain the pros/cons of each? I know I need to talk to my vet as well, but I receive such good advice/recommendations on here as well...

Just to add - Skylie has and will not have any contact with other males, unless of course she ran away, which I doubt lol. I can handle her heat if I need to. I just want the best for her.. 

Thank you for reading


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Here is an excellent article that presents the pros and cons. I prefer as close to a year as possible, and if you have to go through one heat, it's not that big a deal as long as you can confine her. The hormones are important for optimum growth and safe development, but that must be weighed against the possibility of an unwanted pregnancy. 

I prefer they be spayed before a second heat. My girls typically come in really late anyway-13 to 15 months not being that uncommon for a first season.

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf


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## Bogart'sMom (Sep 16, 2005)

I also beleave to wait to spay at least 6 months old. What no one told me before spaying my first Golden Retriever was that they could get incontinent SP (leaking Urin) after the spay. She had to take a Hormon Suplement for a while. It can happen alot in larger size female dogs (Just a Heads up) Just to let you know all my dogs are spayed and neutered I'm totaly for it just not too early. With my next male (when ever that will happen:dohI might just wait until 2 years old so his bones and muscles can fully develop. 
All the best,


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## skylielover (Sep 27, 2008)

I was planning on spaying after her 1st heat, but I hear so many do it at 6 months...


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

I've always been an advocate of early spaying, although most of my dogs were spayed at an older age (1 year), since I don't adopt puppies any more. My terrier puppy of many years ago was spayed at 6 months and never became incontinent or had any other problems related to early spaying.


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## Thalie (Jan 20, 2008)

Both my girls where spayed at 6 months (so far with no negative consequence) but, after reading from different studies, I would very probably wait longer in the case of a medium to large breed and especially if I ever get another Golden.


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## Chelsea's Mom (Nov 8, 2008)

Unless you are going to breed please spay. Not only will you avoid unwanted pregnancy but you also eliminate any chance of uterine, ovarian and other types of cancer. My first golden got very sick before I had her spayed, and it was all in the lady area. Not cancer but some other infection I can't remember the name of. Just my opinion. ;-)


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I wouldn't spay before the first heat. No way... but I don't blame those who do.


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> but I don't blame those who do.


Although I would never blame anyone for wanting to spay a bitch before its first season I don't really understand why it is considered SUCH a big reason to spay...I mean all you really gotta do is look after your dog properly and you can ensure she will not get pregnant..whether Tilly was spayed or not, nothing at all would change in my care to ensure she didn't get pregnant...I care for her to that standard all the time! She can't get out of the garden...nothing can get in....she is always under my control and supervision...I don't feel there would be any difference should she have seasons! (obviously if you own an intact male things would be different) but generally why is the reason of ensuring there are 'no unwanted litters' such a concern to responsible pet owners? If you are responsible you can ensure your bitch will not get pregnant quite easily!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

That would never be my reason for spaying before the first heat- it would be prevention of cancer that would motivate me. However, I would now always wait I think. I prefer male dogs and tend only to get male dogs for myself, but if I bought a bitch puppy I imagine I'd spay her three months after her first heat.


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## skylielover (Sep 27, 2008)

Yeah Skylie is under my control at all times in an apartment. Unless she picked the lock and ran away, she will not have the chance to get pregnant. lol.. I asked my vet about it today, and he said - If you don't want puppies, then there is no sense is dealing with the heat. So he recommended anywhere from 6-9 months.. 

I can deal with a heat if I have to. I have no problem with that. I just read somewhere that's better to wait until she is fully mature and reached a heat before spaying...


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

Tilly sulked for a few days during her heat but apart from that there wasn't much to 'deal with', they kind of take care of it themselves really.


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

Emma&Tilly said:


> Although I would never blame anyone for wanting to spay a bitch before its first season I don't really understand why it is considered SUCH a big reason to spay...I mean all you really gotta do is look after your dog properly and you can ensure she will not get pregnant..whether Tilly was spayed or not, nothing at all would change in my care to ensure she didn't get pregnant...I care for her to that standard all the time! She can't get out of the garden...nothing can get in....she is always under my control and supervision...I don't feel there would be any difference should she have seasons! (obviously if you own an intact male things would be different) but generally why is the reason of ensuring there are 'no unwanted litters' such a concern to responsible pet owners? If you are responsible you can ensure your bitch will not get pregnant quite easily!


There are perfectly good reasons to spay bitches. The real question is if you don't bother to do anything with your dog (I'm talking dog shows) WHY NOT????

Heat cycles can be messy and the bitches can be moody when they come into heat. You virtually eliminate the chance of all reproductive type cancers and uterine infections. False pregnancies are a real pain to deal with as well.

There are tons of us who spend endless amounts of time and money showing and training and raising (well not me, but others here ) our goldens find it hard to understand why pet owners (and by this I mean those who aren't responsible breeders or active dog showers) want to have intact pets.

If and when I choose to breed (in the far off future , I will keep intact pets for all the right reasons. If my dogs don't pass health clearances, have disqualifying faults, or can't contribute anything to my breeding program, I will alter. I will always breed to improve and will NEVER NEVER NEVER sell a pet puppy who will not eventually (in a chosen window of time) be spayed/neutered.


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

goldengirls550 said:


> There are perfectly good reasons to spay bitches. The real question is if you don't bother to do anything with your dog (I'm talking dog shows) WHY NOT????
> 
> Heat cycles can be messy and the bitches can be moody when they come into heat. You virtually eliminate the chance of all reproductive type cancers and uterine infections. False pregnancies are a real pain to deal with as well.
> 
> .


Oh I am well aware of other reasons why a person would want to spay their bitch, I was just refering to the 'unwanted pregnancy' argument...my point is that I don't see why that is even an issue for responsible pet owners...surely if you look after your dog well she wouldn't get pregnant if she was spayed or not. People sometimes appear to have the fear of god in them that if they don't spay their bitch before the first heat cycle then she will get pregnant...I was just pointing out that if you look after your dog well in general then there is no reason why you cannot properly look after an in season bitch. Of course if you are careless and let your dog roam or don't have a secure garden then spaying before a heat cycle is a very good idea.


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

goldengirls550 said:


> The real question is if you don't bother to do anything with your dog (I'm talking dog shows) WHY NOT????



^^^ Bumping up.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Chelsea's Mom said:


> Unless you are going to breed please spay. Not only will you avoid unwanted pregnancy but you also eliminate any chance of uterine, ovarian and other types of cancer. My first golden got very sick before I had her spayed, and it was all in the lady area. Not cancer but some other infection I can't remember the name of. Just my opinion. ;-)


Pyometra is a very serious infection a female can get while in heat. I have one friend, who lost two English Mastiff dogs to this.


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

goldengirls550 said:


> There are perfectly good reasons to spay bitches. The real question is if you don't bother to do anything with your dog (I'm talking dog shows) WHY NOT????


There are many people that would look at that in the exact opposite way and say if you have a perfectly healthy animal then there is absolutely no need to routinely spay/neuter...so instead of saying 'WHY NOT?' their question would be 'WHY???'

There are other countries that view the routine spaying and neutering as an unnecessary mutilation of a perfectly healthy animal...funnily enough it is these countries that have very,very low numbers of homeless dogs. It is not so much the dogs that need altering but I think an aim to alter the standards of the general public's care towards their animals would be much more appropriate...obviously I am living in a dream world for that to happen but it is true when you think about it! If everyone looked after their dogs and did not let them breed with the neaighbours dog then there would be no need to alter any dogs at all (well for that reason anyway) If you wish to spay/neuter to avoid the chance of your dog getting cancer then that is another reason entirely...although if people that breed/show their dogs were THAT concerned about the risk of cancer in an unaltered dog then surely that would be a big enough reason to spay for their health alone....but we know that is not the case! If keeping a dog intact was such a risk to it's health then the folk that breed/show must worry an awful lot about their dogs...I do wonder how many show people on board have lost their dogs to cancer related to the reproductive organs.


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## skylielover (Sep 27, 2008)

I agree with both views - I would actually prefer not to spay at all. I agree Emma&Tilly,I also think... why? She is kept with me at all times and is never left outside..not even in a fence. I would prefer not to put her through a surgery...

However, I read about cancers risks, heats, etc.., so I feel like I need to spay? 

Trust me if I have anything to do it, she will not be knocked up. I feel very strongly about unwanted pregnancies. I can't stand to see people that let their dogs/cats rome around and they are not fixed. It infuriates me.


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

Emma&Tilly said:


> If keeping a dog intact was such a risk to it's health then the folk that breed/show must worry an awful lot about their dogs...I do wonder how many show people on board have lost their dogs to cancer related to the reproductive organs.


It is also helpful to keep in mind that many breeders/show people alter their pets when the pet retires from breeding or showing. Just to be on the safe side since the risk of cancer increases with age (in most cases).


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

Emma&Tilly said:


> There are many people that would look at that in the exact opposite way and say if you have a perfectly healthy animal then there is absolutely no need to routinely spay/neuter...so instead of saying 'WHY NOT?' their question would be 'WHY???'


This is the reason that I haven't had Sasha spayed, yet. There really wasn't a good reason to put her through that. Her heat cycle doesn't bother me and it is only a few weeks out of the year. All of my males are neutered and she is never left unattended during her cycle. The problem that I'm having right now and I'm beginning to reconsider whether to spay her or not is that she is going through a false pregnancy :no:

I was beginning to think that she had something really wrong with her. She is grouchy with the other dogs, she is nesting like you wouldn't believe (bringing all kinds of clothing, towels, sandals, shoes and even plastic grocery bags to her _nest_), whining, panting and pacing and her appetite is almost non-existent. Finally, this morning it hit me that her heat cycle was in mid to late May and she would probably have had her pups by now IF she had gotten pregnant. I looked up the symptoms for a false pregnancy and I guess that is what is the matter with her. I hope it passes quickly because she is an unhappy little dog


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Aw poor Sasha... hope she gets back to herself soon..


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I have a five-year old intact female who I am not intending to breed and do not show in breed and she will remain intact unless she develops some health concern related to being intact. 

There is conflicting scientific evidence about the health risks and benefits of altering a bitch. By spaying, you do eliminate the risk or cancers in the reproductive organs, but it appears that you increase the risk of other cancers. It seems that the sex hormones have a protective effect for these cancers, as do humans sex hormones for some human cancers. 

Is all the evidence in? Nope, but from the studies done so far, a spayed female has between a 2.2 to 5 times greater risk of developing hemangiosarcoma, the biggest killer of Goldens. My heart dog Dexy died of hemangio and I am doing everything I can to prevent losing Selli to this horrid disease. If keeping her intact helps, I will put up with the mess, the false mother-hoods and the missed agility trials.

Oh, by the way, my vet agrees with me 100%. She was keeping her female intact until she had pyometra. She knows I keep a close eye on my girl and has no concerns about my missing pyo or having an unwanted litter.


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## Beanie'sMom (Jul 7, 2007)

I have the exact same question ask Laura with Skylie... Nellie was born 7/21. I live in a rural area, so I'm planning on going back to our old vet (in a larger city) to do the spay. 

At first I thought there would be no question about getting her spayed, but iafter reading all this, I'm uncertain.

It seems to be a tough call weighing the cancer risk vs what? What are the specific benefits to waiting until after the first heat to spay? And if we wait, how complicated is it to go through that first heat? How long will she spot/have to wear pads, etc.? What are the benefits to never spaying? I've owned two other female dogs and both were spayed and I never went through a heat cycle with them.

I read the short article referenced by Tahnee GR. It seems that the greatest risk is Pyometra. My question there is how much more difficult is this to treat versus the problems encountered by spaying?

If I wait and decide to spay, is it best done before three years of age?


There's no risk of pregnancy -- she won't be off the leash. 
The two vets I've spoke with both are pushing hard for spaying BEFORE her fist heat. Does anyone have a specific reason why it may be better to wait? Thanks!


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I really really like Rhonda Hovan's article:

Deciding Whether and When to Neuter a Golden Retreiver

and I think her recommendation of spaying after sexual maturity at around 12 months, is a good compromise for someone who can safely handle a bitch through a first season.

Pyometra is a very serious and potentially fatal disease, as we have unfortunately seen first hand on this forum. It is not especially common but it is not uncommon either and the danger increases with every heat cycle.

I have experienced it once, and it was no fun. I almost lost my lovely girl, who had been bred to a gorgeous boy, and she had to be spayed. She was in Intensive Care for 2 days before they even dared to operate and then it was a choice of "operate now and possibly lose her or wait and definitely lose her." And that doesn't even begin to consider the cost, which was into 4 figures, no problem.


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## Golden123 (Dec 6, 2009)

I plan on waiting till Sadie turns 24 months. She just had her first heat cycle back in November, wasn't that bad. There is no way, she will get pregnant, or have the possiblity of getting pregnant.

If you can't handle a bitch in heat, or can't say with 100% certainty that she will not get pregnant, I think spaying before she comes into heat is a wise decision. But from everything I have read, I think it is better to wait a while.


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## tessalover (Nov 29, 2009)

gold'nchocolate said:


> This is the reason that I haven't had Sasha spayed, yet. There really wasn't a good reason to put her through that. Her heat cycle doesn't bother me and it is only a few weeks out of the year. All of my males are neutered and she is never left unattended during her cycle. The problem that I'm having right now and I'm beginning to reconsider whether to spay her or not is that she is going through a false pregnancy :no:
> 
> I was beginning to think that she had something really wrong with her. She is grouchy with the other dogs, she is nesting like you wouldn't believe (bringing all kinds of clothing, towels, sandals, shoes and even plastic grocery bags to her _nest_), whining, panting and pacing and her appetite is almost non-existent. Finally, this morning it hit me that her heat cycle was in mid to late May and she would probably have had her pups by now IF she had gotten pregnant. I looked up the symptoms for a false pregnancy and I guess that is what is the matter with her. I hope it passes quickly because she is an unhappy little dog


Ok Ièll be upfront and honest... there's a lot of emotion in this as well...
Are you saying that your willing to leave your girl unspayed? Do you realize what your up against? Your up against a deadly infection. Pyometra. It's a deadly infection that happens in the uterus. You can try and save your girl, by surgery (emergency spay) or there's one medication that causes them to have horrible contractions to get ride of the infection, but most time's Pyo always come back.

I hope and pray since you posted this you havechanged your mind all together and got her spayed.


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## tessalover (Nov 29, 2009)

Emma&Tilly said:


> Although I would never blame anyone for wanting to spay a bitch before its first season I don't really understand why it is considered SUCH a big reason to spay...I mean all you really gotta do is look after your dog properly and you can ensure she will not get pregnant..whether Tilly was spayed or not, nothing at all would change in my care to ensure she didn't get pregnant...I care for her to that standard all the time! She can't get out of the garden...nothing can get in....she is always under my control and supervision...I don't feel there would be any difference should she have seasons! (obviously if you own an intact male things would be different) but generally why is the reason of ensuring there are 'no unwanted litters' such a concern to responsible pet owners? If you are responsible you can ensure your bitch will not get pregnant quite easily!


It's not only about pregnancy. It's also about the things that leaving a girl unspayed can do. Like Pyometra. It's a deady infection that happens in the uterus. Yes I realieze some people can control there dog and can handle the "mess" of having a girl in heat (I could), but leaving her unspayed can end in some bad ways.


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## Beanie'sMom (Jul 7, 2007)

We were never considering leaving Nellie unspayed, but I certainly was getting a lot of cross-information from this forum, books and from vets. I don't want to accuse vets of trying to scare people to make money off of spaying, but I was told in no uncertain terms that, "if you don't spay your dog before she's six months old, you will increase her risk of cancer 200%." That's a scary thought! We certainly don't want to to that!

However, after going back over what's happened to all our other wonderful goldens -- two of whom had cancer -- we've decided to follow the advice of the folks on the forum and in the books we've seen and spay her around one-year of age. I'm certain now that the osteosarcoma our beautiful Miss Katie suffered more than likely had something to do with her being spayed around five months (before we adopted her). 

The biggest issue for us here is that we've never gone through a heat cycle with a dog before. What should we expect? What do we need to have on hand to care for her? I'm not talking about the obvious don't let her off the leash, etc., I'm interested in knowing just how messy this might be, what supplies I'll need and how long it will last. Thank you all.


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## jluke (Nov 18, 2011)

*Pros and Cons on Timing of Spaying*

I've been doing research on this since I have to decide on the timing for Maisie. Her trainer has summarized some excellent recent articles on her Facebook page, Best Friends Dog Obedience, in the Notes section. The bottom line seems to be that spaying before the first heat is best for minimizing breast cancer which is very common, but can increase bone and "heart" cancer risks, as well as causing some problems with joint development. It seems to be a real balancing act, without a completely clear answer. Right now I'm planning to compromise by having Maisie spayed after her first heat which seems to minimize most of the risks except for the spay incontinence possibility.

I also learned from Maisie's vet that if she's spayed laparoscopically, he can "make a few stitiches" tacking her stomach to prevent torsion from bloat, another benefit of a laparoscopic spay. So, that's the method I'll choose.


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## Pumba19 (Oct 19, 2011)

Emma&Tilly said:


> Tilly sulked for a few days during her heat but apart from that there wasn't much to 'deal with', they kind of take care of it themselves really.


although i just realized this is an older thread, i am glad i read this part, because when Pumba had her first heat cycle she seemed very down and depressed.. i felt terrible for her. it only seemed to last a day though and she was back to her crazy self


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Emma&Tilly said:


> There are many people that would look at that in the exact opposite way and say if you have a perfectly healthy animal then there is absolutely no need to routinely spay/neuter...so instead of saying 'WHY NOT?' their question would be 'WHY???'
> 
> There are other countries that view the routine spaying and neutering as an unnecessary mutilation of a perfectly healthy animal...funnily enough it is these countries that have very,very low numbers of homeless dogs. It is not so much the dogs that need altering but I think an aim to alter the standards of the general public's care towards their animals would be much more appropriate...obviously I am living in a dream world for that to happen but it is true when you think about it! If everyone looked after their dogs and did not let them breed with the neaighbours dog then there would be no need to alter any dogs at all (well for that reason anyway) If you wish to spay/neuter to avoid the chance of your dog getting cancer then that is another reason entirely...although if people that breed/show their dogs were THAT concerned about the risk of cancer in an unaltered dog then surely that would be a big enough reason to spay for their health alone....but we know that is not the case! If keeping a dog intact was such a risk to it's health then the folk that breed/show must worry an awful lot about their dogs...I do wonder how many show people on board have lost their dogs to cancer related to the reproductive organs.


I agree with you here. In Norway its illegal to spay/neuter you animal unless its medically needed such as testicular cancer. 

spaying increases the risk of many things. Heres a link for both males and females

The Negative Aspects of Neutering Your Pet

I prefer males though so I am not really on top of the argument for females. You are not contributing to the population issue if your dogs dont breed. So the argument that states "By spaying your controlling the over population" holds no water because you are not contributing anyway if your dogs dont breed. You can get 20 people to spay/neuter their dogs who have or will never breed. But as long as the farm people, back yard breeders etc keep their pets intact we will have this issue


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Tahnee GR said:


> Here is an excellent article that presents the pros and cons. I prefer as close to a year as possible, and if you have to go through one heat, it's not that big a deal as long as you can confine her. The hormones are important for optimum growth and safe development, but that must be weighed against the possibility of an unwanted pregnancy.
> 
> I prefer they be spayed before a second heat. My girls typically come in really late anyway-13 to 15 months not being that uncommon for a first season.
> 
> http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf


Linda, when you have a girl in season, do you crate the girl or Creed? How many precautions do you take, and where do you put the dogs? I am getting anxious about Copley/Lush now that she is 11 months.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I only have neutered boys(two to be exact). At one time, I had four unspayed girls, now it is two. My two girls just had overlapping heats...Basil is currently in standing heat. Just tonight her idiot half brother got her diaper off and "bred" her. Of course, she is a willing participant, so no one gets hurt, but it is so annoying. When male dogs live with females in season, it is very stressful and they often go off their food, etc.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

And if my in heat girls are at work, and there is a male dog to be neutered, the poor boys howl and carry on.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Ljilly28 said:


> Linda, when you have a girl in season, do you crate the girl or Creed? How many precautions do you take, and where do you put the dogs? I am getting anxious about Copley/Lush now that she is 11 months.


It's a lot easier now that Creed is older and has been bred-he is only a problem when the girls are ready to be bred, and he is excellent at predicting that  Other than that, he is not that interested in them, which makes it much easier, since he is not crying, howling or off his food. Of course, if the girls stagger their prime breeding times, it can be bad. He is a pretty quiet boy even when the girls are in heat but he has been known to lose several pounds if the girls heat cycles are timed just right (or wrong!)

When the girls are in heat, Creed is outside for at least 10 hours, which gives him a bit of a break. The girls are confined to the house when they are in season, so it is a safe haven for him. His crate is also in a different room, which doesn't help with the smell but it does seem to make it easier on him when he can't see them. 

But yes, one or the other are crated when the girls are in heat. I use the plastic airline crates in the house, and keep the girls shut in one room and Creed in another.

If it does get really bad, Creed goes to stay with Yvette for awhile  I do miss my old house, when I had a separate kennel building, with a crate room and an office  Things were much easier then.


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2018)

*Don't be quick to buy into spaying*

Spaying is not an obligation. If you have a fenced in yard, and control of your dog, spaying may be unnecessary. Your vet/surgeon often will tell you it is. Unfortunately, there is a lot of money to be made in canine neutering. I have seen too may giant surgical bills for my dogs for adult onset cancer, all of which seem to die.

I'm convinced that some vets think that it is a "dog", so there is no mal-practice liability involved if I chop up "el doggie". They think,"How can I be sued?" (Don't ask me, or I'll tell you dear vet.)

Please read the 12 page "pros and cons" study, done by Rutgers University, posted earlier on this string.* I stopped allowing spaying of my Golden Retriever females, and had documented that for me the cancer and related "scare" issues have NEVER occurred since. Could be coincidence, or.....

Some say "_*Neutering*_" is a hedonistic, brutal, and monetarily driven procedure: I don't disagree with that. 

But acknowledge that we must consider data on both sides of the issue (ref. study above).

However, no vet is ever again going to tell me that I "have" to let them cut up, or sever, my dogs genitals. Period.


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