# Leash Training Issues



## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

This is a training issue, the classes will help. Try doing some training at other places like the garden area at Lowes. We used to sit outside at Starbucks on a Sat. morning. No greetings, too rewarding! This was to teach self control. We walk through town at lunchtime, again NO greetings. They (all of them together) sit quietly while I visit but never allow them to be petted. We do lots of off leash training at Tractor Supply, they have a fenced area so can work on recalls and positions. There is a grassy area across from the elementary school and work on heel & retrieves when the kids are out on the playground. People are pretty good about respecting your training boundaries. Basically the more you practice the easier it gets. Just remain calm and politely explain that your training.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

puddles everywhere said:


> This is a training issue, the classes will help. Try doing some training at other places like the garden area at Lowes. We used to sit outside at Starbucks on a Sat. morning. No greetings, too rewarding! This was to teach self control. We walk through town at lunchtime, again NO greetings. They (all of them together) sit quietly while I visit but never allow them to be petted. We do lots of off leash training at Tractor Supply, they have a fenced area so can work on recalls and positions. There is a grassy area across from the elementary school and work on heel & retrieves when the kids are out on the playground. People are pretty good about respecting your training boundaries. Basically the more you practice the easier it gets. Just remain calm and politely explain that your training.


Oh, I explain. I must have the worst neighbors in the world. The last incident was this past week with neighbor issues. A man who lives two doors down came flying up on his scooter. I had Logan in a sit and he came right up to us. By then, Logan was up and rearing. I told him to not pet him because it rewards the bad behavior. He stopped for about 15 seconds, told me he sends his off to school and uses an e-collar and so should I, and then reached out and petted Logan. 

Most people listen, but there's always the occasional idiot. Next time I won't ask as politely.

And I know it's a training issue. I've been working with him since Day 1 and believe me, I'm trying. I didn't have the opportunity to hang out at places when Logan was a puppy because of COVID. Things have opened back up now though. There's plenty of places I could take him here, but he's acting up so much it's difficult.

In my dream world, we would have been at class since week twelve.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

My daughter is always telling me I could be more kind in my "leave my dog alone" to people... but that's ok. I have had to step in front of my dogs on more than one occasion and say back off we are training. But you have to live in this neighborhood so understand the delima. Load Logan up in the car and practice somewhere else instead of your neighborhood. This will at least allow you to teach the proper behavior vs fueling the reactive response. 
LOL I've used a cattle prod before  I used to do pet sitting / walking in some not so nice neighborhoods late at night, it was really more for off leash aggressive dogs but pretty sure it got the attention of the people in the neighborhood. You have the right to decide who pets your dog, NO is not a 4 letter word. I always compare this to creepy people approaching my kids and will intervene in their behalf every time . Good luck, it's hard to just turn and walk the other way but maybe neighbors will get the hint.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

puddles everywhere said:


> My daughter is always telling me I could be more kind in my "leave my dog alone" to people... but that's ok. I have had to step in front of my dogs on more than one occasion and say back off we are training. But you have to live in this neighborhood so understand the delima. Load Logan up in the car and practice somewhere else instead of your neighborhood. This will at least allow you to teach the proper behavior vs fueling the reactive response.
> LOL I've used a cattle prod before  I used to do pet sitting / walking in some not so nice neighborhoods late at night, it was really more for off leash aggressive dogs but pretty sure it got the attention of the people in the neighborhood. You have the right to decide who pets your dog, NO is not a 4 letter word. I always compare this to creepy people approaching my kids and will intervene in their behalf every time . Good luck, it's hard to just turn and walk the other way but maybe neighbors will get the hint.


And I meant to say thank you! The cabinet guy rang the doorbell and I've been meeting with him. 

Luckily, I'm able to be in the mountains a lot this summer and there's much less people here. The dummy was in Columbia where my primary home is located. 

Do you think playdates with other dogs will make it worse? He hasn't had any -- I'm just wondering what to do to get him less excited. Maybe that's not it. haha

What are your thoughts on a nose harness? I don't like thinking about one on his pretty face, to be honest.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Service dog organizations require the nose harness and start them on it at 8 weeks, but the dogs hate them. I have a client with a german shorthaired pointer, quite large and very strong. They use one on him but he's never had any training and been allowed to run amuck his entire life. I can walk both the GSP & their golden with only a buckle collar and I barely weigh 100 lbs! But for these people it works, doesn't teach him anything but it does allow them some control when they walk the dog.
My girls have play dates when I visit my daughter but considering what behavior you are expecting I don't think it's about excessive energy. Just lack of impulse control. See if this video helps. 



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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

You've done such a good job with him so try not to be discouraged. He's still very young and therefore immature. I'm not great at training and Rukie was a bad puller for a long time. We've failed 3 CGC classes 😵. But when he got close to turning 3 something clicked and I saw a big improvement --not perfect but I can see he's trying. The one thing he was good at in the first CGC class was ignoring the other dogs. Then he got a neighborhood playmate and was bad at ignoring other dogs in the next class. I tried Gentle leader and we both hated it. I like the Martingale collar as it seems to just be a gentle reminder. I don't know if I'll keep trying for the CGC. One trainer gives the final test on a college campus at the duck pond which is way beyond Rukie's level. The other trainer allows several dogs per class that are totally dog reactive and out of control to the point one older man got bit and bled, so that really takes away from everyone's ability to have good practice time (is this just me making waa waa excuses?) He's gotten closer to passing but can't seal the deal. I feel sure you and Logan will reach your goals eventually.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

puddles everywhere said:


> Service dog organizations require the nose harness and start them on it at 8 weeks, but the dogs hate them. I have a client with a german shorthaired pointer, quite large and very strong. They use one on him but he's never had any training and been allowed to run amuck his entire life. I can walk both the GSP & their golden with only a buckle collar and I barely weigh 100 lbs! But for these people it works, doesn't teach him anything but it does allow them some control when they walk the dog.
> My girls have play dates when I visit my daughter but considering what behavior you are expecting I don't think it's about excessive energy. Just lack of impulse control. See if this video helps.
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you! I didn't know that about service dogs.

I've done impulse control with Logan with treats -- I put them in my hand under his nose and he won't touch them if I tell him to leave it. He also sits and waits when I feed his food. I suppose that's impulse control also. I will check out the videos.

I think Logan must read this forum because he behaved so well today. It was like how he acts with just me almost. He did misbehave when the two year old sheepdog (Phoebe) in class (they've been making eyes at each other) moved towards him when we were in lanes and he rushed in and stole a kiss. lolol

Edit: Oh! And I meant to say he isn't much of a jumper. He kind of leans in with his body at the legs and turns sideways to let people know he's very glad to see them. My son in law let him do it once and petted him like crazy, however, and I'm still working on Logan not jumping up on him.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

cwag said:


> You've done such a good job with him so try not to be discouraged. He's still very young and therefore immature. I'm not great at training and Rukie was a bad puller for a long time. We've failed 3 CGC classes 😵. But when he got close to turning 3 something clicked and I saw a big improvement --not perfect but I can see he's trying. The one thing he was good at in the first CGC class was ignoring the other dogs. Then he got a neighborhood playmate and was bad at ignoring other dogs in the next class. I tried Gentle leader and we both hated it. I like the Martingale collar as it seems to just be a gentle reminder. I don't know if I'll keep trying for the CGC. One trainer gives the final test on a college campus at the duck pond which is way beyond Rukie's level. The other trainer allows several dogs per class that are totally dog reactive and out of control to the point one older man got bit and bled, so that really takes away from everyone's ability to have good practice time (is this just me making waa waa excuses?) He's gotten closer to passing but can't seal the deal. I feel sure you and Logan will reach your goals eventually.


Thank you!

I think I was getting frustrated because I know he knows. That sentence just made me laugh because one time in New York for fun and games I decided to get a psychic reading. The medium said, "You know you know like I know, don't you?" Basically, she was telling me I was psychic and blocking it. I wanted to tell her to let me read her then and we'd just call it even. 🤣

Anyway, back to the dogs. Golden Retrievers at a duck pond! haha I'd say that's distracting. I hope Rukie will get his CGC one day. And yikes on the getting bit story. That would definitely disrupt class.

Interesting about the playmate! I quit playing fetch with Logan for a while so I wouldn't be setting him up for failure when she lobs those balls at him. lol He let one fly by today and didn't get it. She yelled, "Treat that, Diane!"

Oh -- and Luke was a huge puller. I thought he was a reincarnated sled dog. He also eventually got it together and was a great walker. A harness did the trick for him.


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## GrandmaToGoldens (Jul 2, 2019)

I love this dog training wisdom: “Train the dog you see in front of you (on the day) not the one you wish you had.” Honestly, bouncing tennis balls at a already-excited, nine-month-old Golden Retriever sounds like setting him up to fail. Consider asking your instructor if you can step out of class when they’re practicing activities that are too intense or advanced for Logan on that day - there’s no point rehearsing failure and he may be ready for them next week or next month. Or he may not, and that’s okay too; I had a high energy, highly successful UD Obedience dog who always got overly exuberant when I took him into class. He did what I asked when and where it mattered to me. I rarely took him into class because he found it difficult to concentrate there.

Train at home with as many different distractions as you can, always stretching but not breaking the limits of his control. Practice heeling patterns around tennis balls. Put him on a stay and bounce tennis balls in the room... or toss food... or sit on the floor. Even lie on the floor. Take a mat to class and ask other people to walk their dogs on it or let their dogs lie on it, then train on that pre-scented mat at home. Take him out to a quiet park and practice there. My young dog is a Brittany - a Hunter-Pointer-Retriever breed. I’ve practiced stays on top of rabbit warrens.

Train and play with him on training class days before you leave home, to take the edge off his energy. Maybe take him for a long walk. If you can do so, arrive at class ten minutes early and let him wander around and sniff the ground. Arriving when class is starting is like delivering a 5 year old child to school when the bell is ringing and expecting him to walk in the door ready to concentrate on arithmetic.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I would recommend the book WHWN PIGS FLY by Jane Killion. Lots of good advice there.


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## jdavisryan (Jan 28, 2018)

I agree with the advice from GrandmaToGoldens. Our two year old male was perfect at home but a mess in class from around 9 months to almost 2 years. He became over-stimulated and excited, despite the fact that we have him out frequently. Our goal shifted to focus and calmness training during class and we worked on the obedience exercises at home. Our trainers have been really supportive and allowed me to modify his participation in the exercises based on his ability to focus on that day. I also worked really hard at keeping him “under the threshold” so he experienced success at staying calm in stimulating environments. That included lots of no-contact visits to the hardware store and greeting other dog walkers in a sit-stay from a comfortable distance. Tons of praise and food reinforcement for good behavior. I’ve seen a huge improvement since he turned two in June, but we haven’t been back to class to see if it will transfer to his most challenging environment. He does great out at the store, walking in the park around other dogs, hanging out on a restaurant patio, and he’s an angel at home. Set your pup up for success and hang in there. If you’re patient and persistent he’ll get there.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

GrandmaToGoldens said:


> I love this dog training wisdom: “Train the dog you see in front of you (on the day) not the one you wish you had.” Honestly, bouncing tennis balls at a already-excited, nine-month-old Golden Retriever sounds like setting him up to fail. Consider asking your instructor if you can step out of class when they’re practicing activities that are too intense or advanced for Logan on that day - there’s no point rehearsing failure and he may be ready for them next week or next month. Or he may not, and that’s okay too; I had a high energy, highly successful UD Obedience dog who always got overly exuberant when I took him into class. He did what I asked when and where it mattered to me. I rarely took him into class because he found it difficult to concentrate there.
> 
> Train at home with as many different distractions as you can, always stretching but not breaking the limits of his control. Practice heeling patterns around tennis balls. Put him on a stay and bounce tennis balls in the room... or toss food... or sit on the floor. Even lie on the floor. Take a mat to class and ask other people to walk their dogs on it or let their dogs lie on it, then train on that pre-scented mat at home. Take him out to a quiet park and practice there. My young dog is a Brittany - a Hunter-Pointer-Retriever breed. I’ve practiced stays on top of rabbit warrens.
> 
> Train and play with him on training class days before you leave home, to take the edge off his energy. Maybe take him for a long walk. If you can do so, arrive at class ten minutes early and let him wander around and sniff the ground. Arriving when class is starting is like delivering a 5 year old child to school when the bell is ringing and expecting him to walk in the door ready to concentrate on arithmetic.


Thanks for all the helpful advice. I do walk him a few miles before class for that reason and definitely get there early to give him five minutes to hang outside and sniff. Plus, I want to get in there before every dog distraction arrives. lol Oh, and we play in the mornings too. He runs and gets a toy to bring it up to me as I'm trying to trudge to the coffee pot. I indulge him and we get in some fun tug playing and I toss toys for him to run and get. 

It does stir Logan up once the tennis ball action goes on. He let one go by and didn't go after it today, so I was happy for that. He walked by some also. Plus, he's the only retriever in the room and the little dogs couldn't pick up a tennis ball if they wanted to. Their mouths aren't big enough. 

I will start working with him on the not yours command on our own so he knows when it's okay and not okay to get the tennis ball. Before we started this class, I had taught him to fetch the tennis ball and bring it back to me/put it in my hand. The heeling patterns is a great idea too.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

jdavisryan said:


> I agree with the advice from GrandmaToGoldens. Our two year old male was perfect at home but a mess in class from around 9 months to almost 2 years. He became over-stimulated and excited, despite the fact that we have him out frequently. Our goal shifted to focus and calmness training during class and we worked on the obedience exercises at home. Our trainers have been really supportive and allowed me to modify his participation in the exercises based on his ability to focus on that day. I also worked really hard at keeping him “under the threshold” so he experienced success at staying calm in stimulating environments. That included lots of no-contact visits to the hardware store and greeting other dog walkers in a sit-stay from a comfortable distance. Tons of praise and food reinforcement for good behavior. I’ve seen a huge improvement since he turned two in June, but we haven’t been back to class to see if it will transfer to his most challenging environment. He does great out at the store, walking in the park around other dogs, hanging out on a restaurant patio, and he’s an angel at home. Set your pup up for success and hang in there. If you’re patient and persistent he’ll get there.


Thanks! I told my husband when we head out and about he needs to start going to lunch with us on patios and such. Logan will be lively at first, but it's the only way he can get used to it. Logan is spot on at home when I give him commands. He listens great and follows me around as I do laundry or whatever. At night he settles really well when we are ready to settle and he has been a great sleeper since Day Two of us having brought him home.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

gdgli said:


> I would recommend the book WHEN PIGS FLY by Jane Killion. Lots of good advice there.



Thanks! I will check it out.


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

I remember with Kaizer that 9 months was just a terrible time for us - he did the whole lunging and barking thing at people AND dogs. I was not as good at keeping up with his training at the time like you are with Logan, so I don't know how much of our issue was lack of training or what. I imagine it's a pretty common behavior in boys entering adolescence (I'm interested in seeing if my puppy girl goes through a phase like that when she's older).

Personally, I'm not a super huge fan of the way your trainer is handling it - think there's a lot of setting him up to fail. Throwing tennis balls is very hard for most dogs, never mind a 9 month old puppy who is taking group classes for the first time - it's very hard for Kaizer, and he has both his CGC and CGCA. I'm also not thrilled that she laughed at you when you said you wanted his focus to be voluntary. Maybe I'm taking that a different way than you/she meant it, but I absolutely think that voluntary focus is a fair thing to ask of your dog. I hope I just misunderstood why she laughed LOL. As far as nose collars or leash pops, you are absolutely your dog's advocate. If you don't want to use them, don't. You can still work through your issues without them (I had the same issue with Kaizer and used neither). If you feel comfortable using them, then go ahead. Always, always, always your dog's advocate. (not that I have anything against either. Your dog, your rules. I just chose not to use either with my dog). 

I don't really remember how I worked through this specific issue with Kaizer - we had a lot of issues all at the same time and it took me a really long time to work through them. I think I did a lot of training with voluntary eye contact. The "Look At That!" method really helped with his reactivity, sound sensitivity issues, and general nervousness. It's actually a method described by Leslie McDevitt in her "Control Unleashed" book (an excellent book, I highly recommend reading it. She also wrote a puppy version to prevent issues). Here's a picture that describes the method (called "Engage-Disengage" game, but same idea). This was an absolute game-changer for Kaizer when it came to reacting to other dogs/people and even when he was startled by a sound/movement. The idea is to catch the dog right before he reacts to something (so "at threshold") in order to prevent them from going "over threshold". I used a clicker to get really precise timing. 

As an aside, being "over threshold" isn't necessarily just showing signs of fear or anxiety. Overarousal is also a sign of being over threshold. I just couldn't find a better infograph.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

aesthetic said:


> I remember with Kaizer that 9 months was just a terrible time for us - he did the whole lunging and barking thing at people AND dogs. I was not as good at keeping up with his training at the time like you are with Logan, so I don't know how much of our issue was lack of training or what. I imagine it's a pretty common behavior in boys entering adolescence (I'm interested in seeing if my puppy girl goes through a phase like that when she's older).
> 
> Personally, I'm not a super huge fan of the way your trainer is handling it - think there's a lot of setting him up to fail. Throwing tennis balls is very hard for most dogs, never mind a 9 month old puppy who is taking group classes for the first time - it's very hard for Kaizer, and he has both his CGC and CGCA. I'm also not thrilled that she laughed at you when you said you wanted his focus to be voluntary. Maybe I'm taking that a different way than you/she meant it, but I absolutely think that voluntary focus is a fair thing to ask of your dog. I hope I just misunderstood why she laughed LOL. As far as nose collars or leash pops, you are absolutely your dog's advocate. If you don't want to use them, don't. You can still work through your issues without them (I had the same issue with Kaizer and used neither). If you feel comfortable using them, then go ahead. Always, always, always your dog's advocate. (not that I have anything against either. Your dog, your rules. I just chose not to use either with my dog).
> 
> ...


Thank you. Logan's is an over friendly I want to meet you, meet you, meet you. Luckily, he's not barking -- just breathing heavily and pulling at the leash when a dog gets too close and across the street is too close. He lets people go right by most of the time. He will let a golf cart go by as long as they don't slow down and do baby talk about how cute he is and so on.

Thanks for the clicker game information. My trainer said if I see the stimulus before he does, to stop and put him in a sit, treat him for it, tell him to stay and then point and say, "Look, it's a bird (squirrel, deer, butterfly, person, dog, etc.) Looks like two similar methods with varying treat times. I like the one you posted because often I do not see the thing first! He's very observant. haha

I agree with you I think it's very important to have a relationship with the dog where he is focused on me, doing what I request, as opposed to it becoming a point of contention. Who wants to look at something/someone when there's a negative connotation?

Anyway, he's not getting a nose collar. I think, for his age, he's doing pretty darn well with loose leash walking. We just went 2.5 miles and he was spot on. Granted, all we saw was a squirrel (and he listened to me when I put him in a sit/stay, he watched the squirrel as it moved around on the road and then leaped into the woods, and then I told him to look at me, and we headed on down the road easily.) He actually had his "A" game on for today's walk. A golf cart went by with the young women yelling hello and he didn't lunge, and when we got home, Brian (husband) and Abby (Cavalier King Charles) were in the road in front of our house and I put him in a down stay and he let them walk up to us completely without breaking his down/stay. Brian's brother, Richard, is here and he was on the front porch and Logan has been lunging excitedly at him, but he walked right by. Brian's 89 year old mother is here and he didn't bother her other than sniffing her walker, and when my son came upstairs from downstairs he didn't act crazy with him -- he just went over to be petted. Praise the Lord.

Thanks also for the book recommendation. I'll check it out. I'm getting quite a collection on my Kindle. 😃


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## babettesfeast (Jun 26, 2009)

Hi - I haven't read each post in its entirety, but has Logan been neutered? I'll bet that will help you a lot.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

babettesfeast said:


> Hi - I haven't read each post in its entirety, but has Logan been neutered? I'll bet that will help you a lot.


No. I'm not neutering Logan until between 18 months and two years due to increased cancer risks and joint issues related to early neutering.

U.C. Davis Study


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## DawnKoca (Jul 24, 2018)

diane0905 said:


> No. I'm not neutering Logan until between 18 months and two years due to increased cancer risks and joint issues related to early neutering.
> 
> U.C. Davis Study


Good for you! We waited until our boy was about 21 months to get him neutered. I was hoping it would calm him on our walks but he’s still a nutso!!! I feel like I’m ready about me and our boy! I’m going to start him on leash training in October (he was supposed to start in March, but COVID). I’m so worried he’ll be the same! He’s much better in our neighborhood because he’s used to it, but I took him to the park the other day and he went crazy tugging and pulling. I know he’s just excited, but he looks so misbehaved. We also tried the gentle leader and we all hated it. I’m hoping his training will help. Hope things work out for you as well!!!


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## Lesu (Sep 2, 2020)

We did a lot of group training with our girl Wilma when she was a pup. We knew we had a busy pup in Puppy School when all the other dogs were sitting beside their owners perfectly content and we had to keep Wilma occupied all the time with toys/treats while the instructors were talking. Then we went to Grade 1 where we had to keep her on her mat while instruction was being given or they were getting other dogs to work through the exercises. She would not stay on her mat. The instructor told me no matter how many times she got up and went off I had to bring her back to that mat. I was sweating buckets because it was constant. This was the first class. When we did exercises she was all over the place and not focused. They recommended we use a gentle leader. It was a game changer. I had so much more control over her and she was a completely different dog. She did and still does not like it. We put it on her for walks. She's almost 80 lbs and she pulls on walks. There is no way I could take her without this. She's 1 year old and still wears it. We've tried just the flat collar, harness, martingale and slip and none of these seem to work at least right now. We keeping hoping that we will be able to transition her off this but we head out the door and she's pulling again so its back to the gentle leader.

As far as her interaction with other dogs, we didn't have any issues up until recently (adolescence). She would walk by and the other dogs would be going crazy and she couldn't care less. We had a little fear phase where she was scared and her tail would go between her legs and she would motor it past them but never cared to interact. I would attribute this to all the training we did with other dogs where the interaction with them wasn't promoted. We even did a exercise where we had to walk in between owners and their dogs without having our dog stop or interact with the people/dogs standing there. Then came Covid and adolescence. Now she stops and sits and watches the dogs go by. She won't move until they are gone. We are hoping this is just part of the fear phase that she is going through right now. 

With people, she very rarely jumped up on people because we trained her not to. Occasionally, we would start to see the bum wiggle and we knew it was coming so we would manage through it so she wouldn't jump up. Now in adolescence, if she see's a person she stops similar to seeing another dog and won't move until they either greet her or move on. She also has starting jumping up on people more so we feel like we are starting from scratch again. Hopefully as I said before this is just part of adolescence.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

GrandmaToGoldens said:


> I love this dog training wisdom: “Train the dog you see in front of you (on the day) not the one you wish you had.” Honestly, bouncing tennis balls at a already-excited, nine-month-old Golden Retriever sounds like setting him up to fail. Consider asking your instructor if you can step out of class when they’re practicing activities that are too intense or advanced for Logan on that day - there’s no point rehearsing failure and he may be ready for them next week or next month. (...)
> 
> Train at home with as many different distractions as you can, always stretching but not breaking the limits of his control. Practice heeling patterns around tennis balls. Put him on a stay and bounce tennis balls in the room... or toss food... or sit on the floor. Even lie on the floor. Take a mat to class and ask other people to walk their dogs on it or let their dogs lie on it, then train on that pre-scented mat at home. Take him out to a quiet park and practice there.(...)


This is good advice. You need group classes, but it's important not to over-face your dog.

Another thing to consider is that your dog may be reacting to you. If you're nervous or worried when you see other dogs approaching/when you enter class, he will pick up on this and think something is wrong. It's telling that he didn't behave reactively when he followed the vet tech. You may be sending unconscious signals that are making him anxious. Dogs are very good at picking up stuff like this. One thing I would be inclined to try is to have someone else handle him in class, to see if this is in fact the case.

I agree with others that play dates with other dogs wouldn't help. You need him to focus on you, not on other dogs.

Also, don't get discouraged. My last golden was a hellion on four legs. I remember her early obedience classes: she would chase the other dogs round the room and I'd have to corner her in order to catch her. Honestly, I thought for several months that she was untrainable. It took a lot of practice - hours and hours a week, in different locations - but we got there in the end. At the time of her death from cancer, at age 8, she was the reigning Canadian national agility champion in her class.


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## Dogsport (Mar 8, 2020)

Your dog needs exposure to other dogs and people from a distance. Dogs don’t think “I behave at home when I am on a leash so I must behave on the street or in class because I’m on a leash.“ They stop reacting to activity and distractions after much exposure to them. 

I found out the hard way that obedience classes that attract a lot of small dogs are almost unless for larger breeds. You need to work with a trainer who understands your dog. A retriever is bred to chase, so throwing tennis balls in front of a puppy who is genetically programmed to go after them is cruel. I suggest you spend more time teaching your puppy to fetch and return an object to you. Introduce a Wait command and don’t allow retrieval until you give permission. Then you avoid your dog learning to bolt for an object. Then you can expect a calm reaction to a tennis ball in class. it sounds like a puppy class. I have never seen a professional obedience instructor use a tactic like that. I’ve seen a puppy class instructor use a flirt pole.

A leashed walk doesn't tire out a dog the way free running does. I would work on a fool proof recall and tire my dog out before going out.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

Lesu said:


> We did a lot of group training with our girl Wilma when she was a pup. We knew we had a busy pup in Puppy School when all the other dogs were sitting beside their owners perfectly content and we had to keep Wilma occupied all the time with toys/treats while the instructors were talking. Then we went to Grade 1 where we had to keep her on her mat while instruction was being given or they were getting other dogs to work through the exercises. She would not stay on her mat. The instructor told me no matter how many times she got up and went off I had to bring her back to that mat. I was sweating buckets because it was constant. This was the first class. When we did exercises she was all over the place and not focused. They recommended we use a gentle leader. It was a game changer. I had so much more control over her and she was a completely different dog. She did and still does not like it. We put it on her for walks. She's almost 80 lbs and she pulls on walks. There is no way I could take her without this. She's 1 year old and still wears it. We've tried just the flat collar, harness, martingale and slip and none of these seem to work at least right now. We keeping hoping that we will be able to transition her off this but we head out the door and she's pulling again so its back to the gentle leader.
> 
> As far as her interaction with other dogs, we didn't have any issues up until recently (adolescence). She would walk by and the other dogs would be going crazy and she couldn't care less. We had a little fear phase where she was scared and her tail would go between her legs and she would motor it past them but never cared to interact. I would attribute this to all the training we did with other dogs where the interaction with them wasn't promoted. We even did a exercise where we had to walk in between owners and their dogs without having our dog stop or interact with the people/dogs standing there. Then came Covid and adolescence. Now she stops and sits and watches the dogs go by. She won't move until they are gone. We are hoping this is just part of the fear phase that she is going through right now.
> 
> With people, she very rarely jumped up on people because we trained her not to. Occasionally, we would start to see the bum wiggle and we knew it was coming so we would manage through it so she wouldn't jump up. Now in adolescence, if she see's a person she stops similar to seeing another dog and won't move until they either greet her or move on. She also has starting jumping up on people more so we feel like we are starting from scratch again. Hopefully as I said before this is just part of adolescence.


Thanks! Logan sits there in a stay at the beginning of class as the lady talks. By the time she has gotten to the 15 minute mark talking, he has gone into lay down and then starts rolling around like a bear on his back. I think he grows weary of her words. lol

He's walking well with me in the mountains on a martingale. He's not a puller. He'll do a right turn, "this way" and if I left turn right into him and say "look out!" he pivots backwards and gets out of my way. He's not seeing as many other dogs in this neighborhood as I would like because it's more of a vacation/second home neighborhood and everyone has headed back to school. Since the season is about to be over, I'll take him to local places to sit outside at restaurants and such where there won't be tons of crowds, but some people. 

We are walking in lanes beside other dogs in class -- passing in opposite directions. His first walk down the lane was tough, but then he reeled it in and did much better.

Logan isn't really a jumper upper or a counter surfer.

I did have success with Logan saying hello to someone this past week politely by taking one step forward, putting him into a sit, then one step forward, putting him into a sit, until we got to the person. He greeted them nicely then in a sit as they petted him, so that was promising.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

ceegee said:


> This is good advice. You need group classes, but it's important not to over-face your dog.
> 
> Another thing to consider is that your dog may be reacting to you. If you're nervous or worried when you see other dogs approaching/when you enter class, he will pick up on this and think something is wrong. It's telling that he didn't behave reactively when he followed the vet tech. You may be sending unconscious signals that are making him anxious. Dogs are very good at picking up stuff like this. One thing I would be inclined to try is to have someone else handle him in class, to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I thought of that after the first few classes and really made sure I was calm as we got out of the car/headed into class. He did so well today! I noticed when we got to town he didn't do the usual standing up alert because he knew where we were heading. Then when we got there, he continued to stay in a down in the back of the car. I opened the door and asked him to stand, so I could take his harness off and put his leash on him. He did that without acting excited. He walked in the side yard with me and there was another dog in there and didn't act cuckoo. The only time he got a bit excited was right when we went in the back door, so I had him sit/stay and then took a step, sat him repeatedly as we headed into the room. We made it to our chair, he sat and then laid down. The lady beside me said, "He's doing so well!"

The tennis ball thing was once again a disaster. I don't enjoy it. She put some sort of toy cube right in front of him too and he thinks that's an invitation to play.

Very cool about your Golden being the reigning Canadian national agility champion. I'm so sorry about the cancer. That's the age was when Luke got his and he passed two months after he turned nine. It's heartbreaking for sure.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

Dogsport said:


> Your dog needs exposure to other dogs and people from a distance. Dogs don’t think “I behave at home when I am on a leash so I must behave on the street or in class because I’m on a leash.“ They stop reacting to activity and distractions after much exposure to them.
> 
> I found out the hard way that obedience classes that attract a lot of small dogs are almost unless for larger breeds. You need to work with a trainer who understands your dog. A retriever is bred to chase, so throwing tennis balls in front of a puppy who is genetically programmed to go after them is cruel. I suggest you spend more time teaching your puppy to fetch and return an object to you. Introduce a Wait command and don’t allow retrieval until you give permission. Then you avoid your dog learning to bolt for an object. Then you can expect a calm reaction to a tennis ball in class. it sounds like a puppy class. I have never seen a professional obedience instructor use a tactic like that. I’ve seen a puppy class instructor use a flirt pole.
> 
> A leashed walk doesn't tire out a dog the way free running does. I would work on a fool proof recall and tire my dog out before going out.


Thank you! I've spent a lot of time playing fetch with Logan and have taught him to bring the ball back and return it to my hand. I'll start adding a "wait" to the game. That's a great idea. I honestly haven't been playing fetch with him since I realized she does this in class. We played every single day before then. It's one of the ways I exercise him and he loves the game.

Logan is nine months and it is his first class (Adolescent Obedience.) All the classes where I'm from have been shut down due to Covid. He had a trainer, but she came two times and bailed because of Covid. It's been slim pickings!

At home I have a fenced in area and I used to take Logan out to play fetch before we walked, so he would be a calmer walker. He's actually doing great walking now. He walks about half a step behind me on the left, doesn't pull, stops when I stop, etc. His only kryptonite is other dogs and certain people. He wants to meet them. I do think the class is helping him get more used to other dogs being around.

I plan to start getting him near people, but at a distance where he can keep it together.

I'm not at home now, by the way. I'm in the mountains and there is no fence to our yard -- there is meadow and then a mountain range and plenty of deer and bears. 

I hope I'm not painting Logan as too much of a truant. He's smart as heck and does well other than the issue I just described.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

I would like to add that although I love some things about this trainer lady, I don't think she thinks Goldens are very smart. She has Border Collies. She said to me early on, "Golden owners think their dogs are super smart, but they usually aren't." She also said they don't do well at agility. I have a Canadian friend who does agility with his Australian Shepherd/Border Collie mix and he says that is not true -- that he's seen Goldens do very well at agility. ceegee proves that point also in her post above. 

Today she kind of passive aggressively talked about Goldens by saying, "These dogs don't usually pay attention. They aren't focused. Yours is paying attention to you, so make sure you keep the treat up near your face to reinforce it." I think there may have been a compliment in there to Logan somewhere. 🤣

Now none of you will like her. haha

Luke -- my last Golden was very smart and very intuitive. Logan is also very smart and full of focus when I'm teaching him things. I just have to get him more used to distractions. He's a puppy now, but I bet he will get more intuitive. I think they are very in tune with their owners.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

diane0905 said:


> I would like to add that although I love some things about this trainer lady, I don't think she thinks Goldens are very smart. She has Border Collies. She said to me early on, "Golden owners think their dogs are super smart, but they usually aren't." She also said they don't do well at agility. I have a Canadian friend who does agility with his Australian Shepherd/Border Collie mix and he says that is not true -- that he's seen Goldens do very well at agility. ceegee proves that point also in her post above.
> 
> Today she kind of passive aggressively talked about Goldens by saying, "These dogs don't usually pay attention. They aren't focused. Yours is paying attention to you, so make sure you keep the treat up near your face to reinforce it." I think there may have been a compliment in there to Logan somewhere. 🤣


Well, my current Golden also won his class at both the Canadian national agility championship and the Quebec provincial championship last year, when he was only three years old, beating a bunch of herding dogs in the process. The thing is, when you're training a dog you have to adapt your methods to that dog's needs. Border collies have completely different training needs from Goldens. You can bounce a tennis ball in front of a border collie and the dog often won't be bothered because it's hard-wired to round things up, not catch and retrieve things. A Golden, on the other hand, is hard-wired differently and will usually be more easily distracted by a ball. Both breeds are intelligent, but the intelligence is of a different type. It's up to the trainer to be smart and adapt to the dog; it's not up to the dog to adapt to the trainer. As for focus, it's something that needs to be developed in any dog. Our club's puppy classes start out with focus-building exercises which are continued throughout the obedience program.

Our agility coach and our obedience trainer would both beg to differ with her about whether or not Goldens are smart! After agility class last night, we all went out for coffee and our coach, when asked to rank the trainability of the dogs he had coached at competition level over a period of about 10 years, put my current dog in first place.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

I've had a herding dog in the past and I totally get the differences in personalities -- well for my particular type herding dog. She was a Rough Collie. When my daughter was a toddler, she definitely tried to herd her. 

I love Goldens. I think they are smart as heck. They almost seem like people to me, but nicer.

Different breeds have different ways of learning/behaving for sure. My Shih Tzu was funny and obstinate. Oh he made me laugh with his antics. My Cavalier King Charles is sweet, smart, a pistol at times, and can get highly offended. 😅


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## Dogsport (Mar 8, 2020)

Don’t get offended when someone talks about dogs being smart. What they mean if they know dogs is that some breeds learn very quickly with few trials and remember what they have learned. Some dogs require more trials to learn the same thing. It is partially breed related but also dog related.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

Dogsport said:


> Don’t get offended when someone talks about dogs being smart. What they mean if they know dogs is that some breeds learn very quickly with few trials and remember what they have learned. Some dogs require more trials to learn the same thing. It is partially breed related but also dog related.


I simply think there's a way to word that. You did it nicely. I'm sure there are quite a few intelligent dog breeds. I probably do bristle if someone says Goldens aren't usually smart as this isn't a true statement -- and she's talking about my child. 😅

I know Border Collies are very smart, fast, and have tons of energy. I can see them doing very well in agility. We saw a lot of them when we hiked coast to coast across England.


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## Dogsport (Mar 8, 2020)

Border Collies can also be very independent and extremely difficult to control. Each breed has strengths and challenges. Rather than worrying about a dog being smart or not, it’s more important if they can learn what you need them to learn. I have had several different herding breeds, and they are all somewhat different.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

In Adolescent Obedience Class today the instructor grabbed hold of Logan and told me to go to the end of the long line and yell for him to come. She let him go when I did. On his way back to me he nabbed a small traffic cone and gave it to me as a prize. She won't let him play with the cube or get the tennis balls, so he's making up his own fun. 🤣


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## Dogsport (Mar 8, 2020)

He’s a smart and funny dog.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

Dogsport said:


> He’s a smart and funny dog.


Yes. She told me to reward him because he did what I asked and brought me a prize. lol


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