# OMG...Guy just pulled a gun on my dog!



## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Whoa, how scary! I'm sorry you had to go through this. What is your gun law like where you are? Are people allowed to carry a concealed weapon? I think I would find another place to walk!


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## Starfire5 (Apr 23, 2010)

I would call the police immediately and file a report on the guy! I would NEVER put up with that!


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Scary! Is this park federal/state land? There might be a law about carrying weapons there. Please check into it.

I know that this has got to have you incredibly shook-up. I would consider walking Calvin solo so you can have complete control and focus over him. It sounds like he could use the extra time and would give you some one-on-one training time, bonding, and a chance to work on his issues.


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

While I do think that the reaction of that old man was over the top (I can't for the world figure out why anyone would walk around carrying a gun, apart from cops!), I feel that I have to get a different side of park walking in this thread...In the parks where I live, people are not allowed to let their dogs off leash while walking there. People still do. I've had quite a couple of times the same scare your old guy had, a dog coming out off no where, lunging for Tess. In my case, there was usually an owner following the dog, panting that he/she is really nice and just wants to sniff...Doesn't feel like that if you are standing there with a shaking pup! I always get angry with those people for not putting their dogs on their leash. Otherwise they should go to a dogpark. I hope I've not offended you, and as I say, a gun is way over the top, but there is another side, too.


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## BearValley (Nov 30, 2008)

*Just wow!*

First let me state that I am a huge proponent of our Second Amendment rights as well as a supporter of concealed carry, BUT only when coupled with RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERSHIP.

With that said, that individual needs to be reported to the proper authorities for brandishing a firearm.

What he did was uncalled for and very dangerous. Your dog had already backed off before he drew his weapon. Him doing so was improper and illegal. 

It also increased the odds of an accidental discharge of his weapon, either by one of the dogs suddenly lunging or by what is known as the startle effect.

The laws prohibiting brandishing attempt to prevent a very dangerous behavior. I urge you to contact the authorities.

.


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## GoldenMum (Mar 15, 2010)

Inge,
I understand, my dog was not off leash....I was readjusting his leash in my hand when he spotted the dog and pulled away. I would also have been upset if someones dog came at me too....I felt terrible, but just wanted out of there when a gun came out. I did also contact the police, I explain the incident was my fault as my dog got away from me. The police will follow up and get back to me. He could face a concealed weapons violation. I feel terrible about this, and yes...Calvin will get some alone walks til doing better.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

In Missouri, concealed weapons are legal - are they legal there?

I would definitely report the incident to the police. ( ** Just saw your answer above **)


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

Wow, so much going on here.

Bottom line, both dogs are all right, you're all right, the owner of the rott is all right, now, let's just get to bottom line facts.

You stated in the first paragraph that your golden is fine off leash, yet when you lost control of the leash, Calvin took off after the Rott and jumped on him and growled. To me, IMHO, that's not being "fine off leash."

Your two seniors are fine so walk them separately for now and then walk Calvin so you can control him better with just one leash to handle until you feel comfortable with all three dogs. No off leash--none. Period. None. Sounds like you have been training--that's great. To get rid of that pent up energy, perhaps a class for you and Calvin--a beginner's class that focuses on heeling or one on tricks--something useful and fun to get him to use his brain. Talk to the trainer that you have been using.

We can debate whether or not the owner of the rott was wrong for 
1. carrying a gun
2. threatening your golden with a gun
3. wanting to use a gun 
4. even having a gun

We can also debate the other side and that is. . 
1. your golden threatened a rott--and lived to tell about it
2. your golden bolted from a leash--did you break any off leash laws?
3. do the laws require that dogs be under owners' control at all times while in public? If so, whose dog was not in control, your dog, or the rott?

In my neighborhood, in Weston, in South Florida, it made the local news about a lab mix killing a yorkie while both dogs were on leash. The yorkie was yapping away (as the small dogs do) and both dogs sniffed each other, and the lab felt enough was enough, grabbed the yorkie by the neck, and killed it instantly. The dangerous dog law in Broward County says one kill, and the dog is put to sleep--but this lab mix has a wealthy attorney for an owner, and he argued her case the other day before Broward Animal Control--he had to pay $500 and will take her case all the way up to the county courts if need be. We as golden owners love to brag about how friendly our dogs are, but dogs are dogs, and we need to be responsible dog owners first because things can go awfully wrong, awfully quick. You were very lucky, so was Calvin, and really, so was that rott's owner--hopefully you can go to your trainer and see this as a lesson learned (JMHO).


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## GoldenMum (Mar 15, 2010)

No, concealed weapons are not legal in any city park, actually weapons are not allow at all in any city park here, I did follow up with police.


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## maggiesmommy (Feb 23, 2010)

No advice..just wanted to add that the man has obvious mental issues (bringing a gun to walk his dog!?!) and probably shouldn't have been allowed a gun in the first place. I'm sorry you went through this but I'm glad your baby is ok.


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## GoldenMum (Mar 15, 2010)

Rappwizzard,

If you read my OP thoroughly, you'd see I take responsibility for my dog starting this entire incident. I stated my dog is fine meeting others off leash.....which is only done on private property in a run. My dog does not go off leash on public property. We have just finished a basic obedience class, I can put him in a stay and walk 1000 yds. away...he will come, stop, sit and lie down at my command. I'm not sure what happened today, but believe me we will work on it. I have a trainer working with me currently. I, and my dogs are a work in progress...I was just trying to vent. We will find another place to walk where there is more room to pass, but we have to keep walking in public to get over this.


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## Sophie_Mom (Jan 21, 2009)

What a situation! I can certainly understand the man's concern and reaction to a point - but absolutely NOT to the point he took it. I can't even imagine! I'm glad everyone was fine, though certainly shaken up.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

Wow! This really could happen to any one of us. I am so glad you and Calvin are here to tell your story.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

You definitely made a mistake in dropping a leash and letting a reactive dog get at another dog. You know that, and you've admitted it several times in your posts. You may be liable for a fine, and if the other dog had been hurt, I expect you would have offered to pay the vet bill. These mistakes happen.

That said, the other individual broke far more serious laws and turned an honest mistake with the dogs into a dangerous, potentially deadly confrontation. I'm very, very glad you followed up with the police.

There is NO excuse for this man's behavior. In his shoes, I might have given you an angry lecture, but the threat of violence is abusive and wrong. You must be SO shaken!


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Wow. I'm a little speechless after reading this. I can't even imagine how terrifying that was and I'm so glad that you and your dog are okay! 

I'm very glad, too, that you followed up with the police. Yes, you made a mistake. You know that. It can happen to the best of us.

This man was totally, _totally _over the line in what he did. There is no excuse for it and I hope the police do follow up. If pulling a gun is this guy's first course of action, he's a danger to everyone around him.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

I'm glad everyone involved is physically OK, but I can't imagine the fear from having a gun drawn on me and my dog. I think I would have walked a short distance, then immediately called the police on my cell phone. That man sounds like a nutcase.


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## Katie and Paddy's Mum (Mar 31, 2010)

I cannot in any way imagine how shaken up you must be ... I bet there is a lot of adrenalin coursing through your veins at the moment! I hope you've made yourself a nice cup of tea or even a shot of brandy to help calm your nerves.
i know as a Canadian we have differing opinions on gun law than the United States, but I think that no matter what side of the fence you're on, the mere fact of having a gun pulled on your dog by an angry individual would have been extremely frightening. It could very well have turned very ugly. I am glad it did not escalate any further than it did and that everyone human and four-legged came out of this ok (albeit quite shaken up!).
And I think you did a good job at explaining your culpability in this whole situation and having said that I recognize that it was in no way intentional. It was a mistake that could have had a tragic conclusion. Calling the police and reporting this situation was 100% the right thing to do. 
Having said all that, I think the best piece of advice that has been given is to walk this dog separate from the other two - at least for the time being. You will definitely have more control. 
Can I ask a few questions?
Is one of your other two dogs in any way ill or infirm? I know that when I walk Katie and I am with one of my two young nieces, that Katie will often be a little grumpy with other dogs that try to approach. I think she is trying to protect the little ones. I always keep her more closely guarded in these situations. She is 100% fine on every other occasion, she gets a little over protective in these situations.
Second, have you had your dog's thyroid level checked? I ask this because this is similar to the manner in which Paddy was behaving as a puppy. We were all so confused by his behavior. He was aggressive with most dogs - especially when on leash (which was 99% of the time as we were afraid to let him off leash given his potential aggression). Anyhow, our vet just said he needed to be neutered...but before neutering they ran his blood work to make sure he was healthy enough for surgery and I asked them to run a T4 as well (they said it was not necessary as it was a disease seen in dogs 5+ years of age - but I insisted as it was on my dime) and it turned out he was very hypothyroidic (spelling?!) They could not believe it - but after treatment he is about 90% better. We still watch him carefully, but for the most part he is very relaxed in the presence of other dogs. He does have one enemy in the neighborhood which just happens to be an intact Rottie, but when we see this dog we walk the other way and things are ok.
I just thought I would put those two questions out there.

I am very sorry this happened to you today. As I mentioned early I am glad everyone is ok. Surround yourself with calming things for the rest of the day and weekend. This will likely have you shaken up for some time to come.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I'm glad you are okay and both dogs are okay. Scary situation.

This "gentleman" better make sure he is allowed to unconceal his weapon in this particular situation, per the NC statutory language. We've had situations here where people are involved in traffic altercations and brandish their weapons to the other drivers--they end up explaining themelves in front of grand juries....the statute is very specific about what is permitted and not permitted and concealed weapon holders must take and pass a test to show proficient knowledge of these circumstances.

I'm glad you are okay.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

I would immediately call the police. I suspect the guy doesn't have a concealed weapon permit. At least not someone with that kind of mentality.





GoldenMum said:


> Everytime I think we are moving forward, we take a step back..and todays reallly shook me up! I have posted before about puppies fighting; and I have been working with trainers for 4 months to get over my boys aggression towards other dogs on leash. He is fine off leash, and we do fine as long as we do not have face to face meetings.
> This morning we took our hour walk through the park as we alwys do, I had my 2 nine year old Goldens, and one of my 11 month old Goldens, Calvin. We had a great walk, and were on our way out of the park when an older gentleman (gradfatherly like) approached with his older Rottie. I have encountered this man many times, and he is always pleasant. I could tell Calvin was getting quite excited, so we walked off the path (narrow paths) into the woods. We just sniffed around while he passed. When returning to the path (I was still readjusting three leashes), Calvin spotted the Rottie and lunged. I didn't have a good hold on his leash and he was off on a run. He did jump on the Rottie growling. The man grabbed Calvin by the scruff of his neck, and Calvin backed right off and moved away. The man then pulled a gun, and pointed it at Calvin yelling, "I'm gonna shoot your F***ING dog, I'm gonna shoot your F***ING dog." I didn't know what to do, I asked if his dog was ok...he said he was fine, as he continued to swear up and down yelling at me. I grabbed Calvin and we walked away loose leashed like nothing happened. I live a five minute walk from this park, I have always felt safe there, now I am home crying rethinking everything. My lack of leash control almost got my boy killed...I feel terrible. I also know now that the old grandfatherly guy at the park carries a gun...this really has me shaken. How should I have handled this? I just needed to vent.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

I'm not a lawyer, (and I've never slept in a holiday inn), but in VA I think the law is "Minimal force necessary to preserve life" or something like that. You can't even shoot a burglar in your own home here unless you can **** well prove that you life was in danger.

The guy already exherted minimal force by pulling the dog off of his. Your dog stood down. The event was over. THEN he pulled the gun.

That is uncalled for.


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## GoldenMum (Mar 15, 2010)

Katie & Paddy's mum,

Thank you for the advice, I had decided that I will walk Calvin separately until he is bomb proof. Yes, I started having issues with him around 7 months old on leash. I could throw him in a dog park, or run with any so far and he is thrilled to meet someone new, and loves to play with all. It is definately something while on leash, he has been walked separately for 2 months working on this...I'll take him to a very crouded park and he does very well, except when meeting head on. I then put goodies in my hand, telling him good boy and things go well. i just began walking with Bonnie & Clyde because he was doing so well. 

Could it be this one park...he has had most of his issues there...could he relate this park to bad things happening, puttin him on guard? The paths are cut through the woods and very narrow, just enough to pass someone.

I'll try him alone in another environment and see if it works. I am willing to do what it takes.

I rescued Calvin and Hobbes as pups who were thrown out on the road by a BYB. I have been through two brothers fighting (got through that with training (especially me to be a true pack leader)). Then Hobbes needing double shoulder surgery for OCD, having to be kept quiet (and separate from Calvin). Hobbes is still restricted for another month, but I rescued these guys, and feel very responsible to seeing them through what it takes. Calvin just finished a training class, he did so well it was recommended he could make a good therapy dog! it's just that d**m leash. We are a work in progress. Maybe I should have a thyroid panel done.


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## Our3dogs (Apr 3, 2008)

As everyone else has mentioned, glad everyone involved is OK. Another question, and sorry if you already posted it and I missed it - has Calvin been neutered yet? If not, you might seriously think about doing it sooner - than later. Also, yes, it is a good idea to get the thyroid checked. It sounds like you are doing everything you can to help Calvin become a good doggie citizen.


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## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

I just want to say that I am thankful that everyone is ok after that experience....BUT I dont think that you need to be reprimanded here..yes your dog got away, but that was an accident, that man pulled a GUN that was NO accident. Im sorry that some people felt the need to chastise you..you knew that it was an accident on your part and you stated that....that man was WAY in the wrong for what he did....


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## GoldenMum (Mar 15, 2010)

yes, He is neutered..and he has never had an issue with my trainer...just me! I have had obedient dogs my whole life....raised 4 sons, how could I have become such a push over?


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

GoldenMum said:


> Everytime I think we are moving forward, we take a step back..and todays reallly shook me up! I have posted before about puppies fighting; and I have been working with trainers for 4 months to get over my boys aggression towards other dogs on leash. He is fine off leash, and we do fine as long as we do not have face to face meetings.
> This morning we took our hour walk through the park as we alwys do, I had my 2 nine year old Goldens, and one of my 11 month old Goldens, Calvin. We had a great walk, and were on our way out of the park when an older gentleman (gradfatherly like) approached with his older Rottie. I have encountered this man many times, and he is always pleasant. I could tell Calvin was getting quite excited, so we walked off the path (narrow paths) into the woods. We just sniffed around while he passed. When returning to the path (I was still readjusting three leashes), Calvin spotted the Rottie and lunged. I didn't have a good hold on his leash and he was off on a run. He did jump on the Rottie growling. The man grabbed Calvin by the scruff of his neck, and Calvin backed right off and moved away. The man then pulled a gun, and pointed it at Calvin yelling, "I'm gonna shoot your F***ING dog, I'm gonna shoot your F***ING dog." I didn't know what to do, I asked if his dog was ok...he said he was fine, as he continued to swear up and down yelling at me. I grabbed Calvin and we walked away loose leashed like nothing happened. I live a five minute walk from this park, I have always felt safe there, now I am home crying rethinking everything. My lack of leash control almost got my boy killed...I feel terrible. I also know now that the old grandfatherly guy at the park carries a gun...this really has me shaken. How should I have handled this? I just needed to vent.


 
until you take action on your part , things like this will keep happening.

action by either fixing your dog muzzling it or on leash all times, prevention is the key, you know he has aggression so why put yourself in situation.


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## honeysmum (Dec 4, 2007)

Oh my I cant get my head around this, someone walking their dog with a gun I can only try to imagine how frightened you were, thank goodness Calvin is okay I do understand about people being worried and wanting to protect their dogs but oh my, people owning a gun let alone carrying one in public is beyond my comprehension but I do realise things are different in the US to the UK so I am not criticising the culture just the mind set of someone that carries one when walking their dog:no: and threatnig to shoot it.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Must be funny watching people walk their dogs in US after people on here telling us all the weapons they carry(pepper spray/sticks/Cains/taser/guns/knifes


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## 58loosy (Apr 18, 2010)

It is very scary to have a dog attack your dog, my springer was attacked at a campground on leash a dog came running fast at us, I knew immediately that dog wa going to attack, I started scraming the owners came a running the was bitting my dog all over the leg, I was hysterial the owner through her body on her dog and I got away, we went home 10 hr drive, got to vet he had a drain tube put in and stitches, when walking it does make me real nervous to see a dog off leash which of course they shouldn't be. The man should not be carrying a gun, I wonder if he had a bad experience? I just hope and pray that never happens to me again, I walk my two and I know about readjusting those darn leases, I could never walk 3, as said above just walk Calvin by himself, did he have a bad experience? Good luck to you!


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

The guy should carry Direct Stop. Then he would have something to protect himself and his dog without breaking the law. If I were attacked, or my dog was attacked, I'd spray and I would expect someone else to spray my dog. I wouldn't shoot, nor do I think anyone else should, unless someone's life were at stake.

I should add...I don't like guns due to a bad experience as a child.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*GoldenMum*

GoldenMum

I am so sorry this happened to you and Calvin. I am speechless!


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## mdoats (Jun 7, 2007)

How scary! I'm so glad all humans and dogs returned home unharmed.


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

Dallas Gold said:


> I'm glad you are okay and both dogs are okay. Scary situation.
> 
> This "gentleman" better make sure he is allowed to unconceal his weapon in this particular situation, per the NC statutory language. We've had situations here where people are involved in traffic altercations and brandish their weapons to the other drivers--they end up explaining themelves in front of grand juries....the statute is very specific about what is permitted and not permitted and concealed weapon holders must take and pass a test to show proficient knowledge of these circumstances.
> 
> I'm glad you are okay.


Exactly. Having a conceal-carry permit and brandishing the weapon along with foul language in this type of situation is very over-the-top. I can't imagine this guy actually felt his life was in danger, so the weapon was used to intimidate you, not protect his life or property. 

People like him give 'balanced' gun owners a bad name.


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## Cheryl and buddy (Oct 24, 2009)

First of all, I love the Calvin and Hobbes names. My son and I once dressed up as them for a Halloween wedding. Secondly, I'm sorry you are being lectured, from your very first post I could tell how bad you felt and that you were taking the proper steps to solve this problem. Just so glad that everyone is ok.


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## Goldilocks (Jun 3, 2007)

First of all I am so sorry you experienced this traumatic event. Wow, that would really shake me up too. It's not your fault either so please don't blame yourself. I don't know what your laws are there but here I don't think its legal to be carrying a gun while walking your dog and pulling it out in the presence of another human threatening to shoot their dog! I would call the police and file a report. This is just downright wrong and so many things could go wrong with this type of situation. What happens if this elderly gentleman stumbles and falls and it causes the gun to go off somehow........


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## SophieP (May 7, 2010)

This is crazy - carrying a gun period but carrying a dog while walking a dog???? What the heck is wrong with him?? Wow - insanity. What happened to walking your dog to be in a relaxed state of mind, enjoy the fresh air, meet/greet and socialize with people and dogs, etc? Given his reaction, I would guess this is a very anxious/nervous, maybe even paranoid man which doesn't make him a very calm, assertive and strong pack leader for his dog therefore the dog is likely nervous, anxious, stressed, etc...which in turn, can cause any dog to attack that type of behaviour. Not to make excuses for your dog, but it may be part of the equation. I would definitely stay away from that park and man and hopefully the police will step in and pursue this as needed.

Good luck and I hope you're able to bounce back from this traumatizing event.

Take care.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

From now on I would walk him seperately from your other pups. That way you can do some one on one training with Calvin and work on any issues without distractions from the other dogs. No lectures here.

That man was way over the top. I read your post to my husband. He is a state law enforcement officer and he said there is no reason or cause for that guy to pull a gun out like that. And if the police find him he could be charged, even with a concealed weapon. Just because you have a license it doesnt give you the right to pull it out and threaten people. 

And not to scare you but a friend of ours lost his Dad about three weeks ago because of a nutcase like that. That guy got into a verbal confrontation with Tim's dad about his dog. He pulled a gun and shot Tim's Dad. Tim's Dad had a gun in his car and shot him back. Tim's Dad died and that guy is in a coma. He used his gun for years intimidating people and shooting dogs in the neighborhood if they were running loose.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Just a suggestion for the future, you might try a tether leash that you can clip around your waist , or from your shoulder to your waist, so that you don't have to adjust the leash in your hand at all. It would prevent there ever being a situation where the dogs pull the leash out of your hand.


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## CrystalG (Aug 12, 2009)

Wow, I can't imagine. I'm so sorry you and Calvin had to experience that! That's just unexeptable...no matter what. There's no reason for someone to be walking there dog and carrying a gun? Sounds like a psycho to me. Glad to hear you and Calvin are okay. Hugs to you all


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

My suggestion is to only walk the troublesome dog without the other dogs. Trying to manage 3 dogs is not an easy task even when all are well behaved. Trying to handle a lunging dog while holding onto 2 other dogs is clearly unsafe.

Secondarily, although I do not agree with the man with the gun tactics and I do not carry a gun, I would defend my dogs in any way I could if any one of them was in danger. If a dog attacked me or my dogs I would grab whatever object I could find to defend myself. Whatever methods you need to take to keep your dog under control would be the best tactic or the next person you encounter may actually cause harm to your pup.

Lastly, the man most likely was quite startled by the intrusion of your pup into his space and with potential to harm. It doesn't surprise me that he reacted as he did. I am glad no harm came to you or your dog. You are also lucky the Rottie didn't defend his owner. That could have resulted in a very nasty outcome.

There was a recent even in the news where a person shot a neighbor's dog after it had bitten her child. The authorities felt she was in the right even though the attack had ended and the child was no longer in danger.


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## goldengirl09 (Jul 23, 2009)

Wow, I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I really hope you decide to call the police. Even if you don't press charges or anything, you should definitely have this incident on file. Plus if anything ever happened to someone else or their dog, you would probably feel guilty for not notifying the police. 

Glad you and the dog are ok. I can't even imagine how scary that must have been. Hope there are no more incidents with that guy and you can avoid him. 

Please let us know what the cops say if you do call them.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

GoldenMum said:


> Inge,
> I understand, my dog was not off leash....I was readjusting his leash in my hand when he spotted the dog and pulled away. I would also have been upset if someones dog came at me too....I felt terrible, but just wanted out of there when a gun came out. I did also contact the police, I explain the incident was my fault as my dog got away from me. The police will follow up and get back to me. He could face a concealed weapons violation. I feel terrible about this, and yes...Calvin will get some alone walks til doing better.


Calling the police and telling the entire story was the right thing to do. As others have said, I wouldn't try walking all 3 together in the future. That can be a load for anyone, especially if you know you have one that is somewhat aggressive. 

I'm sorry for your bad experience. I can't imagine being in a situation where someone pulled a gun out.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I agree that the man broke the law and will surely have his conceal carry permit revoked, if he has one. Brandishing a loaded firearm and threatening someone is a felony. as well as illegally carrying in a city or state park.

On the other hand, to those who think it is crazy to carry a weapon while walking your dog: I am aware of people on the forum who carry large sticks, golfclubs and other weapons to protect themselves and their dog when out for walks. There are unfortunately irresponsible owners of aggressive dogs out there and crazy people. My husband has a conceal carry permit and carries at all times. He doesn't go where his gun isn't allowed.
Recently a man in a Walgreens in Omaha killed an armed robber when the robber was holding a gun to a customer's head. It ended up the robber's gun wasn't loaded but no one knew that of course. The man had a conceal carry permit and was not charged and the customers were so grateful. 
Also when the killing spree happened at Von Mauer in Omaha, a friend of my husband's was there and could have shot the murderer but Von Mauer has a No Guns sign so his gun was in the car. Apparently the killer didn't abide by the No Guns sign. Five or four at least lives could have been saved that day.

It is very sad there is a need to protect yourself but I am also grateful for our right to do it.


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## GoldenMum (Mar 15, 2010)

I did call the police, the man walks there often. They were going to have a chat with him, and if he has a weapon he will be charged. I'm just sorry all this happened, and grateful it's over.


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## Mac'sdad (Dec 5, 2009)

*Mac'sdad*

Hi everyone,

I was going to stay out of this but, after reading the comments I can't sit here and not respond !
Let me start off by saying this : The gentleman in question in my opinion was WAY over the top in the manner he handled this situation !
His protection WAS his rottie ..... there was no need for the gun ! The rottie would have chewed the Golden apart....he didn't have to be afraid he had protection !
As far as having the gun in the state in question (NC) I think, I am not up on the legalities there.
I have to say this... 10 years ago when my Nuggett was 1 year old I was walking down the street with Nuggett and he was leashed !
Out of the corner of my eye I saw a dark shadow and a second later this LARGE rottie came charging out and immediately went after Nuggie and I ...teeth bared and snapping like an alligator... he just missed grabbing Nuggie by the throat, so I picked Nuggett up to chest level and saw a fenced in yard so I walked over to the fence and the rottie grabbed my leash while it was dragging and was able to pull me to the ground dropping Nuggie in the process ! In the mean time the rottie was circling to get a better attack position and I jumped to my feet and put Nuggie behind me and I started to fend off the rottie but Nuggie now was going after the rottie to protect me so I finished my mission and was able to throw Nuggie over the fence ! When I turned around the rottie jumped me and I put my arm out and he bit me bad enough to draw blood and puncture my arm several times ! phew . Next thing I knew a gentleman came out of the house with a baseball bat and was able to get between me and the rottie !
To make a long story short I was in the hospital for 4 days with dual intravenous drips in my arm to combat the infection and swelling !

I did not have my handgun with me at the time but if I had ???? Does the forum think that I would have been justified to use the weapon !
Let me tell you my conclusions...i was carrying my gun for a while after that and I'm duly licensed but I'm a tried and true dog lover and believe owners are the one's at fault I would NEVER brandish a weapon at a
man or woman ....I am not a wacko or nutty or anything else in that manner and I have been licensed for the last 30 years to carry !
I carry pepper spray with me at all times and everyone should know that there is always a possibility of being faced with the same situation I found myself in ! I just hope the pepper spray works !
Everyone I have talked to who has owned a rotty, pitbull, gsd or dobie always tell me that they are great family dogs and wouldn't hurt a flea ...it's kid of like a mother or father whose child is in jail ...the usual line is my son or daughter are innocent they are wonderful children and have always been good to me !
I will not spend another 3 days in the hospital and I would and will protect myself and my Goldie with what ever it takes to do so !!! Sorry for being so long winded

Enough said...

Mac'sdad


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

GoldenMum said:


> I did call the police, the man walks there often. They were going to have a chat with him, and if he has a weapon he will be charged. I'm just sorry all this happened, and grateful it's over.


Please be careful if you see this guy again where you walk. He might be a little angry with you for reporting him (you did the right thing!) and my guess is he's off-balance mentally since he drew the weapon after you had your dog in control and the threat was over.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

Wow...what a scary situation! Along with everyone else, I'm glad nothing tragic happened.

I don't walk my dogs in public areas because one never knows what could happen. I know that this dog wasn't vicious, but it seems that there are reports almost on a weekly basis of dog attacks in some urban area or another. These days it is a status symbol for some young urban people to walk around with a barely controlled pit bull on a huge chain. I am only specifying this breed because it is the status symbol for that demographic - I know plenty of pits who are lovely, well mannered, loving family members, however, if I see a pit on a street, I am immediately on a raised level of awareness. I am not defending this man at all, but who knows what he may have encountered. And while it is true that he had a rottie, I have known rotties who were completely submissive and totally controlled. So not all rotties are capable of defending themselves or their people.
Now, I will defend my dog from an attack with whatever is available to me at the time. I don't own a gun, but if I have spray, a stick, a club, a bat...whatever...I will use it with the force necessary to defend my dog and myself. Back when I was at UCLA, my ex and I were walking with our dog, a Heinz 57 with some german shepherd in him, through the Sculpture Garden. Our dog was on leash. A Springer Spaniel came running out of nowhere with his leash dragging behind him, and lunged at our dog. My ex kicked the Springer hard enough that it went airborne and landed with a thud a few feet way. The owner of the Springer came running to grab his dog and began cursing at my ex. Campus police was nearby and came immediately. The owner kept screaming that my ex had abused his dog, but he ended up getting a citation for having his dog off leash and for his dog attacking ours. I don't know if I would have reacted as quickly as my ex, but if he'd had a bat, he would have used it. If I have a bat, I will use it.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I too was going to stay way away from this topic. But, where I live several neighbors would not dream of walking their dogs without firearm protection. Do I agree? No, but I would (and have) take any action necessary to protect my dogs. 

I have known many good tempered rotties and I have also known a few bad tempered rotties - and some of those bad tempered rotties had things happen like being attacked by other dogs that turned them into defensive dogs. It sounds like this rottie did nothing to provoke an attack.

I do agree that if 3 dogs cannot be handled in a safe manner, they should not be walked in a public place together, and if Calvin has a known issue with aggression while on lead, he should not be in a public place on leash... The gentleman in question had a right for a quiet walk with his dog, not to have his dog attacked.

Should he have pulled the gun out? No, not in my opinion but for all we know he may have been mugged by someone who used a loose dog as a distraction. And he did what many of us might have done - do everything in his power to protect his dog. 

So do whatever followup is needed with the police, but also keep Calvin out of the public until he is not a threat to other dogs. I have had my dogs attacked for no reason, and can definitely tell you it gets that protective adrenalin flowing - reason does not always occur to you while protecting something you love.


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## GoldenMum (Mar 15, 2010)

I totaly understand both sides, My 9 year old Golden was attacked also...a huge lab ran through his invisible fence. I kicked and flailed..Clyde will not fight back. The owner came out and told me I should find another route to walk as his dog doesn't like mine. You can bet I gave him a tongue lashing. 
Here, I know I was in the wrong, I don't blame the man for anything, other than pulling a gun!

Like I said, glad it ended there..Calvin is now walked solo until we work through this.


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## Mac'sdad (Dec 5, 2009)

*mac'sdad*

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to add that I agree with everybody that the gentleman was way out of line and police involvement is absolutely warranted ...and also, that I wasn't trying in anyway to single out a breed, any dog can be a biter but when they are upwards of 90lbs or better it puts a different prospect to it.... I have to tell everyone, that until your put into a position in which you viewed as lunch which I hope no one has to go through...you don't know the mind set your put into and I was put into the caveman protect syndrome ! Having a dog bark at you or even growling is bad enough but when they start snapping and circling to find a weakness I just hope that you all have some sort of protection because it all happens in a wink of an eye !

Mac'sdad


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## Rhapsody in Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I think this elderly gent could be senile . . . or on his way there. I would be very frightened. Don't dwell on it too much - make a report - I'll bet there is a worried family member out there who knows their pops is slipping and has been doing odd things like this. Get it on record for his sake. 

This could have been tragic - it could have been any of us - and it is a reminder for us to be watchful. slow down, and maybe its just not safe to be out in the woods anymore - - - I'm thinkin' that myself.

Sure, you were not in control of all three dogs - you know that and we've all had close calls, where there was an angel watching over us. It could not have helped to have the man yelling and swearing. In your dog's defense, it probably escalated the fighting. If people could only understand that screaming or yelling only makes the fighting worse - but the man doesn't sound right in his head . . . so remember this day - and be more careful. I think I will too - so you helped me - and I am sure many others.

Change your course - go somewhere else - I can only imagine you are a bit traumatized - I would be.

I am so sorry . . . Tomorrow will be a much better day : )


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## tillytay1 (Feb 22, 2010)

Absolutely shocking! O.K. your dog broke off leash and went for the Rottie...does that really warrant a guy pulling a gun on your dog? As far as I'm concerned NOONE should legally be able to carry a gun, other than the police. I've have never understood this law in America. No wonder there is so much gun violence you hear about. It makes me sick to the stomach. 

I'm just glad that you and your dogs are o.k. Well, a guy pulling a gun on your dog, facing him with such aggression is really not going to help the situation is it. I don't think your dog is going to be happy going to that park again in the near future. It makes you wonder how many times he has liften that gun to someone. Disgusting.


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## woodjack (May 13, 2010)

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/13/nation/la-na-wolf-attack13-2010mar13 sad story you just need to be aware of your surrounding and even that is not a guarentee

http://www.sciencebuzz.org/blog/wolf_attacks_in_alaska_raise_concerns --------Happened less then 5 miles away from my house

http://animals.howstuffworks.com/animal-facts/dangerous-moose.htm/printable the man in the picture of this article is insane and really dumb I would never get that close to a bull moose or any other moose.










Unfocused cus i was busy running back to my car after a hike when I saw em.





















These moose are right outside my house.

The guy in the OP was wrong and I hope he gets what he deserves for brandishing a firearm like he did and threaten like he did.

But I carry both a gun and pepper spray even when I walk around the block with my dogs, Alaska is different though and I do not even need a concealed permit here. I guess it depends on where you live, it would not be very responsible of me hiking and or walking if i did not have protection with me. But I would never brandish it. In fact I have gotten attacked by a pittbull and never pulled my gun, its just I guess I measure the circumstances and I knew I would never have even hit the little pitt that jumped me and my golden so I never even thought of pulling my gun even though I ended up in the hospital for a week with 2 crushed thumbs and my golden had 5 stitches. But I avoid animals when I hike or walk but it is always good to be prepared. especialy since the nearest cop is 10-20 miles away at any rate or even farther away.

And wolves just appear when your walking they do not make a sound and while it is uncommon for em to attack a dog in front of a human they have done so here the last couple of years with no fear. Pepper spray works in most circumstances but when it does not I have other options

Just trying to give some folks a different perspective about guns and protection, and the different places in which we live.


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## Mms (Dec 13, 2009)

maggiesmommy said:


> No advice..just wanted to add that the man has obvious mental issues (bringing a gun to walk his dog!?!) and probably shouldn't have been allowed a gun in the first place. I'm sorry you went through this but I'm glad your baby is ok.


I'm just going to say that just because he carries a gun does NOT mean he has mental issues. What if a seriously dangerous dog approached him? My dad carries a gun when we walk Gracie to protect both me and the dog. This man may have overreacted a bit, but my dad has pulled pepperspray on a dog and told the owner that if it happens again (this wasn't the first time the dog confronted us), it wouldn't be pepperspray. That was what finally got the owners to keep the dog from roaming free. I'm sorry, but he was defending himself and his dog. As a teenage girl, I worry when I walk Gracie by myself, especially when a dog confronts us, it's scary whether the dog is friendly or aggressive. You can never be sure. As an older man, he may dog be able to stop a serious fight without a gun, he has reason to be carrying it. As for legality, perhaps he's a federal agent/police officer and has an exception?


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## Svan (Mar 2, 2011)

Maybe he is just a scared old man who has been attacked before? And not necessarily by a dog either if you get my drift?


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

Mental note to selves, this is an old thread. I actually remember this one!


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## Doreens (Mar 1, 2007)

MY that is so scary. and so frightning for words Im so glad your calvin was ok.

Blimey I could not imagine going to a park and someone drawing a gun out. I know the laws are different there. but god.

Im just glad people cant have them here. what a awful thing to happen I bet you must have been so shaken up.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*MomtoMax*

I am so very sorry you had to go through this terrifying experience.
You did the best you could!
I would not walk him there anymore though-I would be concerned for your safety and your dogs.


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

GoldenMum said:


> No, concealed weapons are not legal in any city park, actually weapons are not allow at all in any city park here, I did follow up with police.


Pointing a firearm at a person is also a criminal offense if done so without valid reason. If he pointed a gun at your dog and swept you with the muzzle at all (which is likely a possibility) this "gentleman" deserves to go to jail. Frankly any person that finds it necessary to pull a firearm on an animal for such a minor incident is trying to prove how "tough" they are and should not be allowed to own a firearm, much less carry one. 

On a side note, threatening to kill an animal is an idictable offense in Canada and is considered an assault on the person. Since he had no obviously valid reason to threaten your dog (since he never bit his) he would also be charged with that.

In Canada if this was to occur this man would be charged with:

- Carrying a Concealed Weapon
- Pointing a Firearm
- Assault


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

Situations like these happen very, very quickly- whether it's a situation with a robber in a bank or a situation with a dog attacking another dog. I've interviewed numerous eyewitnesses to both types of situations throughout my career as an attorney and can tell you that if you interview 5 witnesses, 5 witnesses will honestly tell you something different - memory recall and the speed of the event all plays into it.

Because of that, it's really hard to judge the man. He may have legitimately felt threatened. If a growling and/or snapping 70 lb golden rushed at me (golden or not) and the owner didn't have the leash, I would have felt threatened (AND I would have been worried about my dog). 

His reaction may have seemed over the top - but I doubt he has mental problems or anything like that- we're just hearing one witness' version. His version is likely that this out of control, very aggressive golden rushed at him and his sweet dog, growling and snapping, off leash, and seemed like it was going to tear him from limb to limb, , and that there was no way for them to run away and he was in imminent fear of harm. That lady wasn't really doing anything because she had too many dogs. Oh, and would some please do something about that crazy out of control dog in the park.


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## Rango (Feb 24, 2011)

Mms said:


> I'm just going to say that just because he carries a gun does NOT mean he has mental issues. What if a seriously dangerous dog approached him? My dad carries a gun when we walk Gracie to protect both me and the dog. This man may have overreacted a bit, but my dad has pulled pepperspray on a dog and told the owner that if it happens again (this wasn't the first time the dog confronted us), it wouldn't be pepperspray. That was what finally got the owners to keep the dog from roaming free. I'm sorry, but he was defending himself and his dog. As a teenage girl, I worry when I walk Gracie by myself, especially when a dog confronts us, it's scary whether the dog is friendly or aggressive. You can never be sure. As an older man, he may dog be able to stop a serious fight without a gun, he has reason to be carrying it. As for legality, perhaps he's a federal agent/police officer and has an exception?


+1.

I carry when I take Rango arround the neighborhood. My neighborhood has gone downhill the past few years so there is increased crime and more loose/stray animals out. There are a lot of dogs in the neighborhood that are either loose from their homes and the owners don't care, or strays. I can say, that if any one of them comes at me or Rango, I will not hesitate to put that dog down whether or not the owner is around (if it even has an owner). I don't know if the dog is rabid, I don't know what its intentions are, so as a result, I know very well what my intentions are should I run into that situation.

The plus side is I live in a gun-friendly state (Texas) and I am legal to own and carry.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Rango said:


> +1.
> 
> The plus side is I live in a gun-friendly state (Texas) and I am legal to own and carry.


It's legal off your homestead as long as you have the valid concealed weapon license and you follow the letter of the law with respect to circumstances of when you can and cannot shoot. Right now, until the legislature changes it, you can have the permit from any state. I think they are about to close the loophole in this session. One of my friends got his carry permit from Utah, while never leaving Texas, and he never had to demonstrate proficiency in shooting.


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## Almanac (Jan 26, 2011)

I didn't read the whole thread here.. but I was just thinking about this dog that I reported for roaming my neighborhood off leash. Personally, if I had a gun, and he started attacking me or my dog.. he's about to get shot.

If the guy pulled the gun after the fact that's not so great. But honestly, you're lucky he wasn't quicker on the draw. I'd say around this part of the country that is very normal reaction. He may have even cut you some slack because it was a golden retriever. If it were a pit bull... maybe it would have been shot immediately.

It's a little different since your dog got loose from you, and you were right there. Personally, I think someone should give you some more slack in that case.. and well he didn't shoot your dog. He was probably just upset. You really need to keep your dog in your control at all times, whether on leash or off leash.


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## Almanac (Jan 26, 2011)

tillytay1 said:


> Absolutely shocking! O.K. your dog broke off leash and went for the Rottie...does that really warrant a guy pulling a gun on your dog? As far as I'm concerned NOONE should legally be able to carry a gun, other than the police. I've have never understood this law in America. No wonder there is so much gun violence you hear about. It makes me sick to the stomach.
> 
> I'm just glad that you and your dogs are o.k. Well, a guy pulling a gun on your dog, facing him with such aggression is really not going to help the situation is it. I don't think your dog is going to be happy going to that park again in the near future. It makes you wonder how many times he has liften that gun to someone. Disgusting.


In our country we believe in certain rights. Gun ownership being one of them. Gun violence persists in countries with much stricter gun laws. I don't even own a gun, but I know this is something I would not want to change.

If you were a thief and home robber, you could break into a house and steal something. You may get away with it many times, you may eventually get caught.. They may pin that robbery or a few on you. It's a bit risky. If you are in the US and you break into someone's house you might get SHOT. I think it helps reduce crime.


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## Almanac (Jan 26, 2011)

SophieP said:


> This is crazy - carrying a gun period but carrying a dog while walking a dog???? What the heck is wrong with him?? Wow - insanity. What happened to walking your dog to be in a relaxed state of mind, enjoy the fresh air, meet/greet and socialize with people and dogs, etc? Given his reaction, I would guess this is a very anxious/nervous, maybe even paranoid man which doesn't make him a very calm, assertive and strong pack leader for his dog therefore the dog is likely nervous, anxious, stressed, etc...which in turn, can cause any dog to attack that type of behaviour. Not to make excuses for your dog, but it may be part of the equation. I would definitely stay away from that park and man and hopefully the police will step in and pursue this as needed.
> 
> Good luck and I hope you're able to bounce back from this traumatizing event.
> 
> Take care.


This guy did not respond well. Carrying a gun in the U.S. is not insane. Many responsible people do. I had a good friend that was very responsible, and almost always carried a firearm. I never felt like it was insane or dangerous.


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## Rango (Feb 24, 2011)

Dallas Gold said:


> It's legal off your homestead as long as you have the valid concealed weapon license and you follow the letter of the law with respect to circumstances of when you can and cannot shoot.


Fear not. I am legal to carry and I understand the law.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Rango said:


> Fear not. I am legal to carry and I understand the law.


That's great...carry away!


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## Svan (Mar 2, 2011)

Almanac said:


> In our country we believe in certain rights. Gun ownership being one of them. Gun violence persists in countries with much stricter gun laws. I don't even own a gun, but I know this is something I would not want to change.
> 
> If you were a thief and home robber, you could break into a house and steal something. You may get away with it many times, you may eventually get caught.. They may pin that robbery or a few on you. It's a bit risky. If you are in the US and you break into someone's house you might get SHOT. I think it helps reduce crime.


 I don't own a gun but I agree. Gun restrictions only impact on law-abiding citizens because criminals pay no attention to it anyway. So you end up disarming honest people, giving criminals free reign


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## FinnTastic (Apr 20, 2009)

This is an old thread
How are Calvin and Hobbes doing?


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## Svan (Mar 2, 2011)

Yeah but worth reviving . Calvin & Hobbes??


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## MyGirlFrankie (Nov 4, 2010)

Sorry, I guess this thread was outdated. No use bringing it up again I guess.


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