# Body Structure - Blocky??



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

how about some photos of him


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## aerolor (May 27, 2011)

According to both the American and English KC breed standard Deber the description "blocky" is not used to describe either the head or body of a golden. Your pup may be closer to the breed standard than a leggier, narrow chested pups with less "body" Pups do change a lot as they grow up, but at 6 months a basically sound structure (as per the breed standard) will be evident (or not).
I hope this helps and good luck with your showing interest.  

*AMERICAN KC BREED STANDARD FOR GOLDEN RETRIEVER*

*General Appearance*
A symmetrical, powerful, active dog, sound and well put together, not clumsy nor long in the leg, displaying a kindly expression and possessing a personality that is eager, alert and self-confident. Primarily a hunting dog, he should be shown in hard working condition. Overall appearance, balance, gait and purpose to be given more emphasis than any of his component parts. *Faults*--Any departure from the described ideal shall be considered faulty to the degree to which it interferes with the breed’s purpose or is contrary to breed character.
*Size, Proportion, Substance*
Males 23-24 inches in height at withers; females 21½-22½ inches. Dogs up to one inch above or below standard size should be proportionately penalized. Deviation in height of more than one inch from the standard shall _disqualify_. Length from breastbone to point of buttocks slightly greater than height at withers in ratio of 12:11. Weight for dogs 65-75 pounds; bitches 55-65 pounds. 
*Head*
Broad in skull, slightly arched laterally and longitudinally without prominence of frontal bones (forehead) or occipital bones. _Stop_ well defined but not abrupt. _Foreface_ deep and wide, nearly as long as skull. *Muzzle* straight in profile, blending smooth and strongly into skull; when viewed in profile or from above, slightly deeper and wider at stop than at tip. No heaviness in flews. Removal of whiskers is permitted but not preferred. *Eyes* friendly and intelligent in expression, medium large with dark, close-fitting rims, set well apart and reasonably deep in sockets. Color preferably dark brown; medium brown acceptable. Slant eyes and narrow, triangular eyes detract from correct expression and are to be faulted. No white or haw visible when looking straight ahead. Dogs showing evidence of functional abnormality of eyelids or eyelashes (such as, but not limited to, trichiasis, entropion, ectropion, or distichiasis) are to be excused from the ring. *Ears* rather short with front edge attached well behind and just above the eye and falling close to cheek. When pulled forward, tip of ear should just cover the eye. Low, hound-like ear set to be faulted. *Nose* black or brownish black, though fading to a lighter shade in cold weather not serious. Pink nose or one seriously lacking in pigmentation to be faulted. *Teeth* scissors bite, in which the outer side of the lower incisors touches the inner side of the upper incisors. Undershot or overshot bite is a _disqualification._ Misalignment of teeth (irregular placement of incisors) or a level bite (incisors meet each other edge to edge) is undesirable, but not to be confused with undershot or overshot. Full dentition. Obvious gaps are serious faults.
*Neck, Topline, Body*
Neck medium long, merging gradually into well laid back shoulders, giving sturdy, muscular appearance. No throatiness. *Backline* strong and level from withers to slightly sloping croup, whether standing or moving. Sloping backline, roach or sway back, flat or steep croup to be faulted. *Body* well balanced, short coupled, deep through the chest. _Chest_ between forelegs at least as wide as a man’s closed hand including thumb, with well developed forechest. Brisket extends to elbow. _Ribs_ long and well sprung but not barrel shaped, extending well towards hindquarters. _Loin_ short, muscular, wide and deep, with very little tuck-up. Slab-sidedness, narrow chest, lack of depth in brisket, excessive tuck-up to be faulted. *Tail* well set on, thick and muscular at the base, following the natural line of the croup. Tail bones extend to, but not below, the point of hock. Carried with merry action, level or with some moderate upward curve; never curled over back nor between legs.
*Forequarters*
Muscular, well coordinated with hindquarters and capable of free movement. _Shoulder blades_ long and well laid back with upper tips fairly close together at withers. _Upper arms_ appear about the same length as the blades, setting the elbows back beneath the upper tip of the blades, close to the ribs without looseness. _Legs,_ viewed from the front, straight with good bone, but not to the point of coarseness. _Pasterns_ short and strong, sloping slightly with no suggestion of weakness. Dewclaws on forelegs may be removed, but are normally left on. *Feet* medium size, round, compact, and well knuckled, with thick pads. Excess hair may be trimmed to show natural size and contour. Splayed or hare feet to be faulted.
*Hindquarters*
Broad and strongly muscled. Profile of croup slopes slightly; the pelvic bone slopes at a slightly greater angle (approximately 30 degrees from horizontal). In a natural stance, the femur joins the pelvis at approximately a 90-degree angle; _stifles_ well bent; _hocks_ well let down with short, strong _rear pasterns._ _Feet_ as in front. _Legs_ straight when viewed from rear. Cow-hocks, spread hocks, and sickle hocks to be faulted.
*Coat*
Dense and water-repellent with good undercoat. Outer coat firm and resilient, neither coarse nor silky, lying close to body; may be straight or wavy. Untrimmed natural ruff; moderate feathering on back of forelegs and on underbody; heavier feathering on front of neck, back of thighs and underside of tail. Coat on head, paws, and front of legs is short and even. Excessive length, open coats, and limp, soft coats are very undesirable. Feet may be trimmed and stray hairs neatened, but the natural appearance of coat or outline should not be altered by cutting or clipping.
*Color*
Rich, lustrous golden of various shades. Feathering may be lighter than rest of coat. With the exception of graying or whitening of face or body due to age, any white marking, other than a few white hairs on the chest, should be penalized according to its extent. Allowable light shadings are not to be confused with white markings. Predominant body color which is either extremely pale or extremely dark is undesirable. Some latitude should be given to the light puppy whose coloring shows promise of deepening with maturity. Any noticeable area of black or other off-color hair is a serious fault.
*Gait*
When trotting, gait is free, smooth, powerful and well coordinated, showing good reach. Viewed from any position, legs turn neither in nor out, nor do feet cross or interfere with each other. As speed increases, feet tend to converge toward center line of balance. It is recommended that dogs be shown on a loose lead to reflect true gait.
*Temperament*
Friendly, reliable, and trustworthy. Quarrelsomeness or hostility towards other dogs or people in normal situations, or an unwarranted show of timidity or nervousness, is not in keeping with Golden Retriever character. Such actions should be penalized according to their significance.
*Disqualifications
*_Deviation in height of more than one inch from standard either way.
Undershot or overshot bite._


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## Deber (Aug 23, 2011)

Thought this might be the next step and as soon as we can see some sunshine I will blow the dust off my camera and try. Hope this will be good enough without other pictures to show you examples of what are the body styles in his class. 

Their color sets them apart enough, I would like to be able to speak about them without sounding like an idiot! I know his syle is normal, just don't know how to describe to those who ask.


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## Deber (Aug 23, 2011)

Aerolor thanks for this! Coop will not be shown, though I did get him in the 3-6 mo Int'l national show and he did well (got his titles). He is not from showing lines and honestly only took him for the Judges evaluation. He is a pet only and will be neutered and loved. He is just not the lanky style he was, he is solid and broader. I know there must be correct words to use to describe, but I don't know them. I don't want to use fat, horse, huskier, square chia-pet! Know there are better words to describe his body style.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

how about "correct" ! ! ! !


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

It could be the other goldens in his class are going through a gawky phase and he isn't?


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## Deber (Aug 23, 2011)

Barb, may I package you and stuff you in my pocket?? 

Megora this could also be very true! Know lines make a difference but expected Coop to continue along with his classmates in looks. Now in less than 2 mo., he is different, but looks like things all match. Makes me wonder what he will look like as a mature adult.  

Perhaps it is the rain we have gotten/still getting, just thinking on this a lot this morning (Penny'sMom Moment! Ha!) and wondered of the differences in body types for our dogs and how they are described in more correct terms.

Thank you for your imput and allowing me to daydream on such a rainy day.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I think that is normal that he looks stocky or blocky. Like somebody said, he is closer to the golden standard than the tall, leggy, narrowchested goldens. 
My goldens have always been sturdy, powerful block heads, lol. Toby, who I have now, is a bit shorter than the previous golden, but well within golden standards. So, I would not worry about it. And if your pup has more fur, good for him. 
My sister had a big, leggy golden and he did not have the typical water resistant undercoat. He had a puny coat actually, just one layer. I think you should be happy about the way your pup is.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

I have been watching alot of youtube golden retriever conformation shows and the body of the golden is suppose to be blocky. The leg up to the elbow should be the same lenght as the body top to stomach. Their heads are to be blocky one judge said they should solid study looking dogs with deep chests.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Is Coop from show lines and the others from field lines or a combination?

Have the others been neutered already or neutered very early?


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## Deber (Aug 23, 2011)

Coops comes from imported Dad, Mom - Am. Golden. His Dads lines have more conformation than hunting. Mom's side is pet with few titles. Coop is definately more of the conformation build than compared with my RB hunting line boy.

Non of the males are neutered. Just 3 different body styles. To me one is more field, one - normal - med build?? & Coop is more compact-thicker. All are goldens through and through. How do you describe these body types? All three are early 50 lbs in weight. Just visually so different.


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## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

Look up the AKC standard which discribes a correct golden. This is not for general reading. Read line by line for each part. There is nothing in the standard that says blocky, show or field type. A correct golden is listed for any venue you are seaking.

I was at a match years ago and I was up against a Chesapeake Bay Retriever for best in match which the Chesapeake took. Later that day there was a dicussion with some of the provisional judges. Thankful for the opportunity as we all know you don't get many opportunities to talk to the judges. They were using my girl as a way to discribe some of the standard discriptions. They picked apart ear set, eyes, muzzle, angulation, height, etc. Later my judge said to me that he will never judge the same. He said he did not pick my Bitch as she was to masculine. After the review he realized that there is nothing in the standard that states a golden should be discribed in his preferrence.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> I was at a match years ago and I was up against a Chesapeake Bay Retriever for best in match which the Chesapeake took. Later that day there was a dicussion with some of the provisional judges. Thankful for the opportunity as we all know you don't get many opportunities to talk to the judges. They were using my girl as a way to discribe some of the standard discriptions. They picked apart ear set, eyes, muzzle, angulation, height, etc. Later my judge said to me that he will never judge the same. He said he did not pick my Bitch as she was to masculine. After the review he realized that there is nothing in the standard that states a golden should be discribed in his preferrence.


But don't judges go by personal opinion/impression when they pick one dog over another? I mean you can pick apart dogs who have faults, but if you have dogs who are equally good doesn't it come down to what the judge feels about a big blocky head or coloring or the way X dog stands out to them?


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## Capt Jack (Dec 29, 2011)

Jack has always been stockyer than other Goldens. Like you he's no show dog( nor am I LOL) but a pet. Can't wait to see some pics!!


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## Deber (Aug 23, 2011)

Capt'n Jack, sun is peeking out so perhaps I can get some pictures when home from work. 

Love this discussion and hearing about the types! There is so much to learn and hope to get to more shows just so I can see instead of seeing pictures of others dogs. 

Reading the standards, you are right in that the words they use are not gender nor body style specific. Many areas to be different but be in standard, but I will read this slowly over again when get home. So a lot must be interpeted by the Judges and would/could take a lot of years to get the "eye" for what they like the best??


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

While that is true, it does say 
"...(not) long in leg...."
"...broad in skull..."
"...stop well defined..."
"...foreface deep and wide..."
"...neck....giving sturdy, muscular appearance..."
"...body...short coupled....chest ...at least as wide as a man's closed hand including thumb, with well developed forechest...loin short, muscular, wide and deep...."
"...hindquarters....broad and strongly muscled..."

That doesn't say blocky, show, or field type but it does describe a certain body style.




MGMF said:


> Look up the AKC standard which discribes a correct golden. This is not for general reading. Read line by line for each part. There is nothing in the standard that says blocky, show or field type. A correct golden is listed for any venue you are seaking.
> 
> QUOTE]


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Deber said:


> Love this discussion and hearing about the types! There is so much to learn and hope to get to more shows just so I can see instead of seeing pictures of others dogs.
> 
> Reading the standards, you are right in that the words they use are not gender nor body style specific. Many areas to be different but be in standard, but I will read this slowly over again when get home. So a lot must be interpeted by the Judges and would/could take a lot of years to get the "eye" for what they like the best??


 
Yes, it takes time as a fancier and a judge to develop this eye. The wording does leave room for some interpretation which is why we see a variety of *styles* in Goldens that still have *type*. (There are also dogs poorly bred, with so little consideration for the nuances of breed type as to completely lack breed type.) Type is what makes a Golden a Golden. (Sorry, the correct use of style vs. type is a pet peeve of mine!) 

If you want to get a handle on some of these nuances, I always recommend getting hold of a copy of the Blue Book, written by Marcia Schler. You can get it through the GRCA store. A Study of the Golden Retriever

Another good illustrated breed standard is the one prepared by the GRCC. http://www.grcc.net/files/club_documents/GRCCIllustratedBreedStandard.pdf


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## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

Megora said:


> But don't judges go by personal opinion/impression when they pick one dog over another? I mean you can pick apart dogs who have faults, but if you have dogs who are equally good doesn't it come down to what the judge feels about a big blocky head or coloring or the way X dog stands out to them?


 
Sure if two dogs show equal in standard it would come down to opinion. Some judges may search for a flaw in their preference such as movement, pigment, even handler to eliminate the dog. As wrong as it is this judge did confess he did not follow the standard but put her in a catorgy (masculine). He said he would never judge the same. There are some good ones out there and really study what represents the standard discription. There is no such thing as the perfect dog and even as a breeders we have different opinions what looks better. Their is only one standard that make them a golden and our goals should to be to strive for the perfect golden retriever.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Megora said:


> But don't judges go by personal opinion/impression when they pick one dog over another? I mean you can pick apart dogs who have faults, but if you have dogs who are equally good doesn't it come down to what the judge feels about a big blocky head or coloring or the way X dog stands out to them?


I don't show, but it is my understanding that everybody interprets the standard differently, so when a breeding is defining her lines' look, it is the way she interprets the standard.

I have also read that a judge should never judge the dogs against each other, but judge each dog separately according to the standard. Not sure if that is how it is really done.


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## Deber (Aug 23, 2011)

Too funny, caught Kye crawling into her outside water! Coop is on the right. 










Letting the dogs out in the yard for the first time after over 5" of rain, was a disaster waiting to happen. Easy to pick out Coop with the mud all over him, hopefully you can see his body mud and all. His tail when not muddy is filling out, but he is square! Thick and square is how I would describe. Again, he is a pet but of a different body than his classmates. When wet you can see his ribs easily, his coat makes him look much rounder than he is. 

He has lots of maturing to do though and I wonder what he will mature into?? Oh! Little one standing next to him needing his top-knot and a good brushing is my boy Harley - a Biewer Yorkie.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

BTW, I hate the expression "blocky". It makes me think of blockhead.
I prefer "sturdy". 
Coop looks perfectly fine to me, in fact, he's lovely. I have to wonder what the other goldens in his class look like!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

We have so many goldens come through classes who just do not have enough bone and have almost collielike heads with little stop. I do not think the average person has an idea of what the standard calls for in a golden bc they are so used to seeing incorrect ones.


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## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

Looks like a G R to me! Lovely boy, maybe more like we see ours over here as ours are often considered 'blocky'? Two lovely dogs there  and I think he will just grow into himself, whatever build he ends up but I think he will look lovely and get lots of complimemts


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## dmsl (Jun 7, 2009)

I just read alot of info (linked on this site) about whether to neuter or not and when, and health issues of both sides of the debate. Most info says when you neuter early, goldens tend to be lankier & longer legs, etc....and their heads don't fill out as much. Could be the others were done at an early age & didn't you say you haven't yet?


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## mrmooseman (Aug 12, 2011)

i always figured moose was lanky, but looking at the pictures of cooper, i see moose has the same shape, kind of. moose's tail isn't filling out as much, or maybe it is? and his pants arn't as neat lol, moose looks like he has constant bed head.


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## Deber (Aug 23, 2011)

Coop is not neutered and we hoped to hold off until he was closer to 2 yrs old. Our first RB boys were neutered very young, so this will be our first try at waiting. 

LJilly you have come closest in the term "collie like" face. This is more what Coops classmates look, in fact the red-head honestly looks like an irish setter to me at times. Both are more willowy, less chest, but they are young, bit long on leg which shows more because coat is short, both have a very apparent occipital bone in center of their head, a typical pet puppy look we see a lot, both beautiful little golden kids. After the comments, makes me wonder if we have so many goldens out of standard it has become the norm? I don't know if Coop's body is more correct or not, but I like the sturdiness of him. I am still getting used to he and Kye's light color but love the kids so much. 

Thanks to all on this. I have a lot to learn, but am going to finish reading our standard and google for more pictures. Can't wait for shows to start so I can go and watch. Know I will learn a lot more when I can actually see what is entering the Golden ring. Would like to speak of my breed with more knowledge and confidence.

Oh and thank you for not laughing at my pictures, it is hard to show you a muddy puppy body while I am standing in mud myself.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> We have so many goldens come through classes who just do not have enough bone and have almost collielike heads with little stop. I do not think the average person has an idea of what the standard calls for in a golden bc they are so used to seeing incorrect ones.


I think you've really hit the nail on the head. I don't think enough people understand why a golden is truly a golden. I had my Hero puppy at class last night. It was the first one. Classmates couldn't get over his "huge legs" that looked like they "were inflated with air" and how "sturdy" he looked. It was comical but also a startling reality that people don't know what they're looking at. They are used to seeing something so far from the standard they don't know when a nice puppy is staring them in the face (I am bias, of course!). It's a shame in a way because it says that there isn't a whole lot of responsible breeding going on in this area. I don't mean to say that field or performance dogs are out of standard or that every conformation bred dog is sound and perfect as there are extremes in anything.


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## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

Ljilly28 said:


> We have so many goldens come through classes who just do not have enough bone and have almost collielike heads with little stop. I do not think the average person has an idea of what the standard calls for in a golden bc they are so used to seeing incorrect ones.


 
This is so true. I don't know how many people come up to me and tell me how they love how small my goldens are. They are standard in height and weight but people think the normal golden is much taller or should weigh closer to the 100 lbs. I agree that many do not know what a correct golden structure should be.


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## aerolor (May 27, 2011)

I think Cooper looks just fine for six months - well proportioned and with a lovely head and expression. He is similar to my Bonnie (except she is a 10 month old bitch and is a bit darker in colour). I too am biased, but I do know what I like and I like your Cooper, Deber.


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## Deber (Aug 23, 2011)

aerolor, Thank you! I too am more partial to the more "sturdy" build. I was a bit confused because of the comments in class. I hate to admit, but wasn't sure what they were talking about. He is different, but he is totally in standard by what I understood our standard to be. I didn't know if they spoke of his head or thick body..felt too ignorant to ask, so came here! Don't mind asking my friends & learn as I do. Now I feel better equiped to answer and know more of what they were talking about.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

CarolinaCasey said:


> I think you've really hit the nail on the head. I don't think enough people understand why a golden is truly a golden. I had my Hero puppy at class last night. It was the first one. Classmates couldn't get over his "huge legs" that looked like they "were inflated with air" and how "sturdy" he looked. It was comical but also a startling reality that people don't know what they're looking at. They are used to seeing something so far from the standard they don't know when a nice puppy is staring them in the face (I am bias, of course!). It's a shame in a way because it says that there isn't a whole lot of responsible breeding going on in this area. I don't mean to say that field or performance dogs are out of standard or that every conformation bred dog is sound and perfect as there are extremes in anything.


When my Brady was in puppy, he had four other GR puppies in the class. The instructor, who had a golden herself for agility, told me that I was feeding Brady too much, and he was too fat. Well, he had one of his wellness appts the next day, I mentioned it to the vet, and she laughed. She said he was perfect, and showed me how to feel his ribs.

She had also told me that it was rare to see goldens that look like him in her practice - so I do think it is what you are used to seeing.

He does have a completely different look than my MacKenzie whose ancestry is unknown. I am assuming she was a BYB or puppy mill product.


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## Ryley's Dad (Oct 12, 2010)

I find that the English style Goldens tend to be "blockier" than the American Style Goldens.

Ryley has some English in his pedigree...

Here's a pic of his Grandsire... 









And here's a pic of Ryley (at 18 months). Even though he does have some English in his pedigree (Grandsire and Greatgrand sire... see pedigree below) I think he leans more toward the leaner American style.. What do you think? 
He will probably fill out a little bit more as he fully matures but I don't think he will end up looking as "blocky" as his Grandsire...


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

CarolinaCasey said:


> I think you've really hit the nail on the head. I don't think enough people understand why a golden is truly a golden. I had my Hero puppy at class last night. It was the first one. Classmates couldn't get over his "huge legs" that looked like they "were inflated with air" and how "sturdy" he looked. It was comical but also a startling reality that people don't know what they're looking at. They are used to seeing something so far from the standard they don't know when a nice puppy is staring them in the face (I am bias, of course!). It's a shame in a way because it says that there isn't a whole lot of responsible breeding going on in this area. I don't mean to say that field or performance dogs are out of standard or that every conformation bred dog is sound and perfect as there are extremes in anything.


CC... I hate to say this, but I was astounded by how "fat-all-over" some show puppies that I've seen seem.  I think I even posted somewhere on a thread where somebody mentioned "bone" and I thought they were talking about shoulders or chest. Then found they were talking about legs and I was like "That's not just all blow dryer?" :bowl:

Ryley's dad - I can see where Ryley got some of his beauty genes from. What a nice looking dog.


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## golden_eclipse (Apr 1, 2011)

It is always evident when I am asked if my Champion male is a mixed breed that the general public has no idea about what the standard calls for....makes my head explode. 

Also things that the standard does not call for is square in body, they should be slightly longer than tall, I believe its 12:11 ratio. Although that difference is hard to pick up by eye, especially if you are new, I try my best to measure and see how close my dogs are, so I can get an eye for long bodied dogs, short bodied, too tall/too much leg. Its not an exact science its up to judgement but its pretty interesting to do the math out and see what ratio your dogs are.

A good point about leg length, to say short in leg, is incorrect, it should be proper leg length (than commenting on a relatively shorter leg than others with legs that are too long). But they should be equal length as the depth of the chest...

Barrel chested dogs are not desirable, as are narrow chested dogs. 

Angles are in my opinion the toughest thing to get the hang of looking for. Because to be honest looking at a lot of show dogs, you end up seeing a lot of over angulation verses correct angulation (the blue book is a big help here as well.) 

From reading the blue book, the biggest point I take from it is Moderation, Moderation, Moderation...(its like real estate, location location location). 

I highly recommend the Blue book, you can order it from the GRCA here: A Study of the Golden Retriever Worth every penny, and it supports our national club! 

Btw, he is real cutie. He's got a lot of growing left. I thought my boy was stringy at 6 months, but he grew into himself. Some dogs take till they are 3 to mature, some mature by 18 months.


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## Ryley's Dad (Oct 12, 2010)

Here's a pic of Ryley's GreatgreatGrandsire (on the English side).
Very "blocky" looking compared to Ryley...


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

kdowningxc said:


> It is always evident when I am asked if my Champion male is a mixed breed that the general public has no idea about what the standard calls for....makes my head explode.


I'm with you on that. I've had people ask what jack is and then tell me he's not a golden because he doesn't look like the golden they grew up with. I just nicely try to say that there are different styles of dogs but all are still goldens. I tell them that conformation goldens, like our dogs, sometimes look a bit different than performance/field bred goldens or dogs from BYBs. I had one lady at dog beach who kept at it saying "no, he can't be a golden. Are you sure he's not mixed with something else?" "he has to be mixed with something else." Finally I just snapped at her and said "ma'am, I can ASSURE you that I know the breed standard better than you probably do and he is all golden." I tried to be nice, but she just pushed me too far.


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## golden_eclipse (Apr 1, 2011)

@ryley's dad, 

I think it can be tough to really say a dog has more substance without putting your hands on the dog. From the picture of the grandsire, he could have more "substance" than your Ryley, but it could be just as likely be fur grown in thick and wavy to give an allusion of more substance.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Oh, on this topic, I had a chuckle at a show last week.  

I wandered over and was standing near the golden ring and doing a little research on coat quality and also checking out feet trims. Long story short, I've been worrying about whether my guy's coat is healthy enough since he's finally dropping weight and staying lean or if I should add a higher fat food to his diet. 

While I was standing there dithering and calculating coats, I heard this woman repeatedly asking a handler if there were two different breeds - the golden ones and the red ones. And the woman wanted to know where she could go to watch red ones in the ring.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Megora said:


> Oh, on this topic, I had a chuckle at a show last week.
> 
> I wandered over and was standing near the golden ring and doing a little research on coat quality and also checking out feet trims. Long story short, I've been worrying about whether my guy's coat is healthy enough since he's finally dropping weight and staying lean or if I should add a higher fat food to his diet.
> 
> While I was standing there dithering and calculating coats, I heard this woman repeatedly asking a handler if there were two different breeds - the golden ones and the red ones. And the woman wanted to know where she could go to watch red ones in the ring.


LOL, that's too funny. I'm always nice to people at shows who ask those types of questions. When Jack was a pup he was pretty wavy and a woman asked if he was a goldendoodle and when the goldendoodles were showing...lol


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Chance is very "sturdy". When I used to take him to work, customers would bring their Goldens in and there was a huge difference between Chance and their dogs. Not only in color, but over all body type. Everyone would comment on how big his head was. I was often asked if he was part Pyrenees. Get used to the comments because, as Cooper matures, he's going to fill out even more. 

Here's a picture of Chance that kind of shows his size:


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I've had people ask me what Tito is mixed with, because they have a golden retriever at home and their dog "doesn't look anything like him!". Try explaining "bench champion" to someone like that, sheeeesh.


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## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

@ Barb

You have to be kidding with the comment you got.


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## Deber (Aug 23, 2011)

Riley's Dad, those pictures make my eyes water and heart beat faster. What beautiful dogs and Riley is spectacular. I want to get my hands on one like that and compare. I know my toy breed well, know what I like, but am a total novice in our goldens and want to remedy this. 

Karen, what does Chance weigh, if you don't mind me asking? He looks like the type you want to snuggle with and would love to see Coop end up like this, but think Coop would never be this big and beautiful! Both my kids have been called Pyrenese, which floors me cause the breeds look nothing alike, but it is the color that throws them. Our lighter goldens whether light gold or lighter as Coop is are not seen here, so people assume they are another breed. 

But I must agree after seeing pictures and hearing your discriptions, Coop is more sturdy built and this is what they ment by "blocky"! 

OK group keep talking, and bring the pictures on. Love seeing your dogs and giving me information to better see what you know.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I kid you not! And I've been asked if he's an Irish Setter, too 



rhondas said:


> @ Barb
> 
> You have to be kidding with the comment you got.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

Here are some pictures of my big head Toby. The breeder actually did not know which way to go with him pet or show. I wanted him just for pet and she had promised me the pick of the litter. Anyway, glad he went the pet route, because he just had hip surgery. I know he would not have been show quality anyway, doesn't matter to me.
The first pic is a bit older, but the only one I had with full body.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

a few candid photos of Tito, he is a sturdy guy for sure! Seriously, does he look like an Irish Setter?


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

No, not at all, lol.


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## Deber (Aug 23, 2011)

Noooo, I believe in my vast experience Tito looks like he wants to live at my house in Texas, he looks so sad to be in the Windy City! Hotel4Dogs, I know you get tired of me telling you what Tito means to me. He is about the best of the best in what I like seeing. He reminds me in many ways like our goldens used to look. Where has this style gone? Tito is what I remember from the past and so glad to see they are still around. Yep, Tito's got the same look in leg that Coop has to my eye, fits him and not long legged as his buddies are, but Coop will never be a Tito, but we will love him just the same! Again, what a beauty, he is..OMG Nope don't see an Irish Setter in that boy, it is laughable to even voice this! 

Crista, I think Coop is going to be very much like Toby and that would be wonderful. Toby does have a bigger head, but it fits perfectly. He is a beautiful guy! Love his face.


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## mrmooseman (Aug 12, 2011)

Oh he CLEARLY looks like an irish setter : you can totally tell by how narrow his nose isn't? haha some people! I'm new to the GR breed, Moose being my first, and I can tell the difference between the two breeds! 
We get the.. "what breed is he? golden lab?" because he obviously looks like lab. :doh: Then once we say "no, retriever" we always get the "oh but he's so light!". I still don't understand how that can make him a lab. I know labs can be light colored but come on! Moose's ears are wayy bigger and he has wayy more fur!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

<blushing> thanks!
I will NEVER get tired of you telling me how wonderful Tito is, lol. But seriously, I have had so many people, including judges, tell me he is "an old fashioned golden retriever" and I take that as the highest compliment possible. I've had a lot of people nostalgically (if that's a word) tell me that Tito reminds them of goldens they had when they were growing up, etc. I just love it when he brings out fond memories like that for people!




Deber said:


> Noooo, I believe in my vast experience Tito looks like he wants to live at my house in Texas, he looks so sad to be in the Windy City! Hotel4Dogs, I know you get tired of me telling you what Tito means to me. He is about the best of the best in what I like seeing. He reminds me in many ways like our goldens used to look. Where has this style gone? Tito is what I remember from the past and so glad to see they are still around. Yep, Tito's got the same look in leg that Coop has to my eye, fits him and not long legged as his buddies are, but Coop will never be a Tito, but we will love him just the same! Again, what a beauty, he is..OMG Nope don't see an Irish Setter in that boy, it is laughable to even voice this!
> 
> Crista, I think Coop is going to be very much like Toby and that would be wonderful. Toby does have a bigger head, but it fits perfectly. He is a beautiful guy! Love his face.


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## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

@ Barb

You've met Jake. People have asked me if he's an Irish Setter, lab (because he doesn't have a lot of coat but please tell me what lab has feathering like him) and the funniest one yet, Goldendoodle (but only once).


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## Deber (Aug 23, 2011)

As a farm kid, our dogs were not pets, they worked our cows, lived in kennels outside they worked their entire lives, but we were never allowed to make pets of them. My first experience with the Goldens was the female my sister got in College. She was sturdy, a bit shorter, very solid and became my sisters best friend. Hiked, camped, rode the river many times with the college kids all day and hunted with my sister. Never had a class in her life, but my sister worked hard with her. Smartest dog! She was more than a dog, she was her companion and lived until 13 still going strong almost to the end. 

This is what I think of when I see goldens and compare them. Though in my area the more slight builds and taller dogs is what we see, I am drawn like a magnet to the more sturdy builds when I can see them. 

Rileys Dad, that picture you posted of Rileys Grandsire is more the body I picture Coop maturing too, but never expect the elegance of that boy! But can see the same leg, the neck and head look familiar too. If we can wish, would love for him to have the closest to this he will do. 

After being at class, and from what you guys have said here, I don't expect Coop will ever look like the others in the class, the time when all pups looked alike have passed. I feel more confident to answer the questions asked of me of "Why" now. Coop is normal, perhaps more in standard than the others! Makes me feel good for whatever God has given him. I like this look.


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

I can't tell you how many times people have asked us if Gambler is mixed with a lab because he has a broad head and stocky build. His family tree has many show champions from Canada and the US but he is just our lovable pet. I agree that most people are used to seeing tall lanky goldens. We even had one man who told us we we nuts to believe our breeder that he was a pure golden. It isn't worth it to argue with people like that. Your Coop is very handsome!
Here is a picture of Gambler chewing on a bully stick.


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## janababy (Jan 2, 2012)

Your Coop sounds like our Buddy. His Dad was built like a truck. LOL!!!! Buddy had the same body structure as Coop. He could run....when he wanted. The breeder had told us that you couldn't go jogging wit him, because of his build. He was not slim and tall like other retrievers in the park. Loved him the way he was.


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## Deber (Aug 23, 2011)

Gold4Me - Gambler has that wonderful head I remember! Yes, people in my area would question him too...sadly. It is so good to see that the golden I remember is alive and well. I love his face!

janababy - That describes my boy! Loves to run, but likes plodding along just as much. Nice to look at a pup and imagine what the adult will be.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

@lab comparisons.... we used to get those too. I never really understood them until I was looking at pics later on, after his coat finally filled out. Yep. I could see it.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Deber said:


> Karen, what does Chance weigh, if you don't mind me asking?


Chance weighs 92 lbs. He used to be 96, but his vet wanted him a few pounds lighter because of his ED. I might try for about 90 lbs., but at this weight I can feel ribs, he's got a tuck and he definitely has a obvious waist looking at him from above. If it wasn't for his ED, he could carry 96 lbs. without any issues.


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## Deb_Bayne (Mar 18, 2011)

I'd be curious to see if neutering at younger ages makes a difference. I know I've read this but to see differences would be curious.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Deb_Bayne said:


> I'd be curious to see if neutering at younger ages makes a difference. I know I've read this but to see differences would be curious.



Chance got neutered at around 14-16 months, (only a guess, I don't know his birthday). I neutered him a few months after I got him. 

For a comaprison, the picture below is the day after I got him. His first owner told me he had just turned a year old, but who knows for sure. All his vet records were falsified, (they belonged to a German Shepherd :gotme. The picture in my other post was when he was about 3 years old and my sig picture was taken last year. At around 2.5 years, it seemed like Chance stuck his paw in his mouth and blew his head up like a balloon.  Seriously, his head just got huge. His body filled out, also, but his head was the most noticeable.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

"I'd be curious to see if neutering at younger ages makes a difference. I know I've read this but to see differences would be curious. "

Check out the thread below. Lots of our dogs to try and guess who is neutered and who isn't.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/golden-retrievers-main-discussion/93030-great-neuter-debate.html


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

That was a fun contest. Gambler was #11 and he is not neutered.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

duplicate post... .


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Something else to keep in mind is that there are just different "looks" (see I didn't use the word type!) in the golden breed. Difference lines. Different "influences".... 

When I visited Jacks' breeder, my original intention was to go with a line that was more closely related to my Danny.... but I got something slightly different. 

Both dogs came from conformation lines (CH's in the past 5 generations). 

Both goldens were about the same color. 

Both with big heads.

Both left intact. 

Danny was 5 years old in the pic below. Jacks was 2 months shy of 4 in the one pic. And the other was taken close to his birthday.

Danny was 25" and looked heavier than he was because of his coat. When he was younger like in the pic, he ranged between 74 and 77 lbs. 

Jacks is 23.5" and right now his weight is down to a lithe 78lbs. Our instructor at obedience class no longer reminds me to get his weight down, so I think he finally looks perfect. Our vet said that something between 80-85 would be healthy for him, but they're crazy. 

The biggest difference between Danny and Jacks is Danny was initially a show prospect puppy. His breeder suggested that my oldest sister think about getting into conformation with him. The breeder lived/breathed conformation, and that is something she bred her dogs for. 

Danny developed ED and grew too tall and he was afraid of strangers (broke his breeder's heart when he shied away from her even), so conformation wasn't an option. 

Jacks is a compact little marshmallow-love teddy bear in comparision. He was pet bred with 2 generations between him and the last conformation champions. 

























ETA - Oh, and this is extra, but Jacks used to be mistaken for a lab. With Danny, people mistook him for a pyr. And the ironic thing is after we lost Danny, Jacks would get extra excited when he walked past a neighbor's great pyr. I think it's because Clara's bark sounds a lot like Danny's and she stomps around in a similar way.


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## YippieKya (Jan 3, 2012)

*Misha & Kya (pointed vs. blocky)*

My first Golden - Misha had a pointed head, and my second Kya had a very blocky head. You can really see the difference in this side by side picture of both. 

While I think they are all simply beautiful, I do gravitate toward the blocky look. 

May both my precious boys rest in peace and find one another at the bridge.....


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## rbrooks (Oct 23, 2011)

Daisy had a thinner face than I think Jackson he will have a more square jaw and forehead I think. 












I don't have a full face picture of Daisy like the one here of Jackson. 

She was also called an Irish Setter on more than one occasion!!

Best I can do is this one with a right side and left side picture of Daisy on the right and Jackson on the left. They are both 9 weeks old



Bob


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## rbrooks (Oct 23, 2011)

Daisy about 4 years old










Her face is more narrow, and not what I would call blocky


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## Deber (Aug 23, 2011)

Megora, Your dogs are fantastic. Danny was unbelieveable and Jacks the same. You are blessed.

Tippiekya - our RB redhead looked so much like you Misha, it took my breath away. This was our boy, our hunter, our pride. Miss that little one so much. I hope all are running at the Bridge together. 

Rbrooks - Daisy is the kind I would want to hug all the time, look at that face! But yes I can see the difference in heads. Amazing the styles when you have pictures to look at. I see so much more of what people were meaning with little Coop (though he is just a babe). 

Thank you to all who put pictures on, know that can be a hassle, but sure easier to see when you have pictures.


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## Deber (Aug 23, 2011)

I just went through the "Contest" Baccarius set up and would have done horribly picking, but what breathtaking dogs!! We honestly followed our Vets advice about neutering our old RB boys and both were neutered around 6 mo. This time around our Vet is asking us to wait if we can until bones have closed, so told us closer to 2 yrs. Makes sense so we are going to try. Our girl is the same and Vet would like to hold off until she is past the 1 yr mark. We have made arrangements to move her when she comes into heat to a friends house she visits all the time and loves her, so feel good about this. Hopefully after this will be time for her spay.


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## Suzie Simoneit (Oct 24, 2012)

*block Head goldens - over sized*

We are looking for block head goldens that are slightly larger than standard. We are not interested in showing, we just like large dogs.

Suzie


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