# Miss Molly has hip dysplaysia



## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Have her xrays been sent to OFA?


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

I found the website if your breeder-

New Litters

They say they have some prelims done of hips, etc. We cannot verify anything since we don't know registered names.

So sorry your girl has HD... I am hoping for the best for her.


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## Pretzel's Mom (Aug 23, 2012)

Waiting to talk to the vet about getting her x-rayed. Vet sent me to Chiropacter because she thought it was in her spine.


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

They just got a Standard Poodle to start breeding Golden Doodles?


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## Pretzel's Mom (Aug 23, 2012)

The mother is Heart's of Gold Pyper SR65224604 06-12
The father is Morgan's Goldenrule Houston SR10591607 04-05 AKCDNA#V428564


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

so the vet didnt xray before sending you to chiro??


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

yep...doodle breeder...

contact_us


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I'm not defending that breeder, especially since I really doubt they had actual prelims done. There's no such thing as a "very good" grade. 

But they can't diagnose hip dysplasia without xrays. It's just guesswork without actually looking at the joints. I'd arrange an appointment with the ortho specialist and have xrays done. If your pup has hip dysplasia, you might not be looking at surgery. If very mild, you are talking about management (supplements and careful exercise and diet).


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

I would be very tempted to skip over your regular vet and jump to a specialist....your vet may be very good or very bad or mediocre at positioning for hip xrays....
You may very well be making major health decisions for your dog based on those xrays...you want the best you can get.

I would also ask for elbow xrays at the same time...it wont add much to your bill, and will give you valuable info....


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Just realized your pup is very young :-(...
What were you seeing for symptoms that led you to the vet?


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I so hope her xrays show a hopeful picture. Giver her fish oil( we give human Nordic Naturals) DFasuquin or Adequan injections, and keep her trim. If she can swim and build muscle around the hips, that is excellent.


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## Pretzel's Mom (Aug 23, 2012)

The xrays will be done tomorrow.


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## Pretzel's Mom (Aug 23, 2012)

They will be. There is a one year health guarantee in there for Severe Hip Dysplasia.
They will replace the puppy. I do not want that. I would like see her not breed those 2 dogs again. Thank you for your advise.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Neither dogs are showing up under registered names or AKC number in the OFA database .... so no clearances on either dog...I am glad you are getting the xrays done, I agree with the others about skipping your reg. vet and going right to a specialist. 
good luck with your girl


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## Pretzel's Mom (Aug 23, 2012)

Thanks to everyone for your advise. I will start her on the supplements and she will go swimming. Hoping tomorrows x-ray will not be as bad as severe. She started dragging her back leg and not wanting to put pressure on her back legs. That is why I was sent to a chiropractor before the x-rays. We were going to x-ray her when we spayed her in about a month.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

You cant do anything to prevent her from breeding that pair of dogs again...
You can only calmly state only the facts and get your dogs health info into a publicly verifiable database...like OFA.
Then educate.....

Although AKC might be very interested to know that she breeds doodles....


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## Pretzel's Mom (Aug 23, 2012)

Is she not suppose to breed doodles? She has a web site for them www.*goldenrulegoldendoodles.com** This is her site.*


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Well a bunch of red flags jump out at me. X-mas pups, Doodles etc. Also, there is no prelim grade of "very good". Like normal OFA hip clearances you have Excellent, Good, Fair, Borderline, Mild etc. There is probably not much you can do as I am guessing your pup did not come with any kind of warranty. Also, this does not strike me as a responsible breeder but I would do x-rays and send them to OFA as prelims if I were you. Good luck... hip dysplasia is not a death sentence. Do the basics like keep her thin and fit, start glucosamine and chondrotin and proper exercise. Depends on how severe it is but it can be managed.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

MissMolly's said:


> They will be. There is a one year health guarantee in there for Severe Hip Dysplasia.
> They will replace the puppy. I do not want that. I would like see her not breed those 2 dogs again. Thank you for your advise.


A reputable breeder guarantees for anything but excellent, good and fair. Those are all passing grades.


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

I couldn't find the sire or dam on K9Data either...


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## Pretzel's Mom (Aug 23, 2012)

When I get Molly's final results can I enter it on K-9 data showing who the parents are?


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## Pretzel's Mom (Aug 23, 2012)

I have a copy from the Spring Harbor Animal Hospital for Houston from April 7,2004 showing Prelims are very good.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

When a dog gets prelims on their hips and/or elbows, the X-rays are sent in to the OFA to be evaluated. It is not the same as a vet's notes stating the X-rays look "very good". A regular vet is unlikely to be experienced enough to accurately grade the X-rays.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Personally I would only enter it in k9data...if the xrays had been submitted to OFA and were in their public database FIRST...that way you are only restating the conclusion that 3 orthopedic professionals determined...
Not the results of a random vet...

That is one reason why I would go to a specialist and get the xrays done...
Positioning is critical for submission to OFA.





MissMolly's said:


> When I get Molly's final results can I enter it on K-9 data showing who the parents are?


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## ChanceMom (Jun 27, 2012)

I'm going through this right now with my pup. He just had his final surgery yesterday. How old is your golden? That would help decide what type of surgery should you choose to go that route. At around 6 months we found out Chance had severe hip dysplasia. He wasn't very active and would prefer to lay down rather than play.

The X-rays looked horrible and the vet recommended total hip replacement, but said to wait as long as we could to get it because of the cost and the possibility that the metal they attach to the bone could wear down, causing him to need another hip replacement. 

Well, I knew it could only get worse and surgery was my only choice. Some people suggested to put him down and I absolutely would never choose that. Up until that i was giving him and his brother an all natural joint supplement called "Nupro". It's a powder that goes in their food and can be mixed with water. They love it! Also, hip dysplasia (especially severe) will become very painful for the dog and can lead to arthritis and other joint conditions. We put Chance on a medication called "Medicam" to ease the pain. It definitely worked but I didn't want to keep him on it long term. Potential side effects are kidney damage. But I would talk to your vet about at least getting some pain meds or look into natural meds, too. 

We took Chance to a specialist and they said a total hip replacement for both hips would cost around $12,000. Here's where age plays a role. Thankfully Chance was only 6 months, making him a good candidate for a procedure known as a Triple Pelvic Osteotomy. This surgery can only be performed in pups under 10 months because their muscles are still developing and need to grow around the metal which acts as a new joint. This surgery ended up being $8,000 total - only giving you prices because I was curious myself and tried to research costs. We had the 1st hip done almost 3 months ago. His opposite was done yesterday and it will take a few months to fully recover. What an amazing difference in the healed leg, though. He was running and jumping again, up until he had to get the other hip done. Even in the short amount of time he was recovering, his bad hip had deteriorated even worse! The orthopedic surgeon wanted to operate as soon as possible. 

I know surgery isn't an option for everyone but I did want to tell you about my experience if it helps any. I would definitely recommend checking out supplements; they will at least help somewhat. Glucosamine and chondrotin are excellent joint supplements (they come in all kinds of forms from tablets to powder) and these will help build the muscles. Swimming is great and will take the pressure off his hips. Dogs can still live happy lives with hip dysplasia but it's not something that can be fixed without an operation. All you can do is stay dedicated to finding the right products and helping him strengthen his muscles the best you can. Eventually you could get him one of those dog carts that have wheels. My uncle used to make them and the dogs get used to it-- like using the cart as back legs  

Lastly, I know it would be so difficult but last resort would be finding a loving owner who could adopt him and get him the surgery he needs, if it came down to that. 

I wish you and your pup the absolute best. I know it's a very trying time for everyone and it breaks your heart to watch them go through it. Please post updates as they come! Good luck to you guys!! 

If you want to check out my little guy, I have a thread going called "my puppy chance" and I have been trying to stay up to date on his progress.


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## Pretzel's Mom (Aug 23, 2012)

Thank you for all the information. It is hard to keep a puppy down. She still wants to run and play. I am glad your puppy is doing well. I will know more tomorrow.
I want to thank everyone for their support. I am going to need it in the coming days.


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

You have my prayers sent your way for sweet Molly.


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## Pretzel's Mom (Aug 23, 2012)

Molly will be 6 months on Sept 6th. Is it custom to do one hip at a time? We will have a better idea later today about the level of the dysplasia.


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## pandamonium (Apr 18, 2012)

Was thinking about Miss Molly...


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

Checking in...


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## Pretzel's Mom (Aug 23, 2012)

She is at the vets now getting the xrays taken. Thank you. Hoping for the best


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

Sending good thoughts your way!


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## Pretzel's Mom (Aug 23, 2012)

Saw the xrays. She has severe hd on both sides. I feel so bad she is such a good smart dog. It is a shame what irresponsible breeders have done to this wonderful breed. I have contacted the breeder about her one year health guarantee and the fact that she should notify the other families that have purchased a dog from this litter. Thank you all for your good thoughts.


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## Vinnie's Mom (Jun 9, 2012)

Are you at least getting some of the money you paid for her back to help you pay some of her medical bills? I don't know how the health guarantees work. I did not get Vinnie from an established breeder.


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## Pretzel's Mom (Aug 23, 2012)

I have sent her an e-mail. The contract reads another puppy but I do not want another puppy. I have asked her to refund my money. We will see. She is planning on breeding these 2 dogs again for Christmas puppies.


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

So sorry for your sweet girl... Please consider sending in the radiographs to OFA. Unfortunately many owners here have had to deal with it and I'm sure more will come to give you advice.


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## Pretzel's Mom (Aug 23, 2012)

Thank you. I am going to send the x-rays to OFA with release to public marked. She is planning on breeding Molly's parents again for X-mas puppies. This forum is wonderful. I have received a lot of information and great support. Thank you to everyone for your support.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

I am so sorry for this news, I know you must be upset over it. Did you hear back from the breeder?


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## Pretzel's Mom (Aug 23, 2012)

I just heard back from the breeder after I threatened to go the AKC and file an complaint. She agreed to give me my money back but I think she is going to want the puppy back. She has sent the x-rays over to her vet and will advise me next week. We cannot afford the surgery. It is amazing to me how quickly this has all happened. My head is spinning. Thank you for your concerns. I will keep you posted.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Miss Molly*

Miss Molly

I am so very sorry you and your baby are going through this!


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## Pamsfam4 (Mar 24, 2013)

I was just made aware of this posting from a new client. Thankfully she came to my home and met our golden family in person and viewed my records and made an educated decision of purchasing a puppy from us.

Fellow golden lovers, please know that I felt terrible hearing about Molly's condition. Raising goldens isn't just a job nor a hobby for our family, it's a part of our life. We love our goldens and they are family. We strive to raise quality goldens. This was a tragic incident for all involved.

From the time Ms Nowak informed me of Molly, I was in immediate and constant contact with her, my vet Dr. Rogers and myself. I was always in 100 percent compliance with my contract and willing to resolve the problem. Ms Nowak defaulted the contract. After Ms Nowak's veterinarian diagnosed Molly with HD, I asked for the x rays to be sent to my veterinarian for confirmation. My vet made me aware of a notation from Ms Nowak's vet that she was considering euthanizing the puppy! The very reason our contract states that the client must return the puppy so this does not happen! It sickens me that someone would euthanize a pet unless the pet was terminal and in misery!! There are so many advanced medical ways to treat things now, why would someone not give the animal a chance? On Ms. Nowak's behalf, she did choose to release the puppy to a rescue. All of this was done without my awareness. In the meantime she was threatening me to file a complaint with AKC, OFA and sent a complaint to the State's Attorney and State Of IL Agriculture Dept. All cases are closed and I was in complete compliance to all! I do have documented, dated records to prove everything. All said and done, after I confirmed with the rescue that Molly was in their care and safe, I gave her a complete refund. By law I didn't have to do that, but money wasn't the issue, the well being of the puppy is! Being vindictive, threatening and slandering someone is not the way to handle any situation.

I have bred goldens for more than 18 years. Our daughters have grown up with them. They are responsible hard working adults now. I believe helping with the breeding program has taught them many things and groomed them into the loving, nurturing women they are today. I have many references from happy clients that I'm willing to share. We welcome visitors to come meet our golden family. Thank you.

Pamela Edwards
Proud owner of Heart's Of Gold


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Great. More importantly, are you now getting OFA clearances on all of your breeding dogs?


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

K9-Design said:


> Great. More importantly, are you now getting OFA clearances on all of your breeding dogs?


Exactly, I hope the breeder has learned an important lesson in the value of clearances, unfortunately it was at the expense of a trusting puppy buyer and more importantly, Molly.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I'm hugging my 6 month old puppy very tightly after reading this.  I think there are equal faults here (do not breed dogs without clearances, acknowledge that if you buy a puppy especially from a backyard mutt breeder you take on the responsibility for their care, especially as they bond with you their owner), but what I'm thinking about right now is that thing we all say about those breeder contracts about returning the puppy if they have HD or whatever. Everyone says they would never do anything like that after bonding with the puppies. That's how I feel about it.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Just checked out breeder's website, still doing doodles and goldens with reported "very good" prelims--not sure what if anything was learned at Molly's expense. Sad, sad, sad


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

I think all the breeder proved by pulling this up is that they have been practicing irresponsible breeding for 18 years  Would have been better just leaving this buried.


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

Pamsfam4 said:


> I was just made aware of this posting from a new client. Thankfully she came to my home and met our golden family in person and viewed my records and made an educated decision of purchasing a puppy from us.


Hopefully, before they put a deposit down, this new client will come back and read this thread, as well as others about choosing a reputable breeder.

Molly's story is heartbreaking.


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## drofen (Feb 2, 2013)

I cannot comment on Molly's situation, however, I am curious as to your response to the GRCA'a position on Goldendoodles, ( Golden Retriever Puppies: Golden Retriever Club of America (GRCA) ) and how you can continue to justify breeding them?

Secondly the GRCA Code of Ethics (Golden Retriever Club of America - The GRCA Club) specifically recommends waiting until 24 months, and getting 4 clearances: Hips, elbows, heart (by a cardiologist, not a practitioner), and eye CERFs (within one year of breeding.) Some clearances are listed but there are no AKC numbers or even full names listed for a buyer to verify for themselves.

*This info was pulled from the incorrect breeder website and does NOT apply to this discussion: *_I've looked at your site, and there is NONE of that information listed for the dogs you are currently breeding (Sucre, Duelly, and Holly [who is retired now?]) There are no AKC registration numbers, or full names listed, so nobody can verify any information about the dogs. In fact, the pedigrees you listed for Deully and Sucre don't list AKC numbers for them either, and the clearances listed are partial at best._



Further, what specific characteristics of each of these dogs were you hoping to emphasize with your breedings? Meaning, how does each breeding improve the overall breed? What warrants repeat breedings with these dogs that have produced documented severe hip dysplasia?




Pamsfam4 said:


> I was just made aware of this posting from a new client. Thankfully she came to my home and met our golden family in person and viewed my records and made an educated decision of purchasing a puppy from us.
> 
> Fellow golden lovers, please know that I felt terrible hearing about Molly's condition. Raising goldens isn't just a job nor a hobby for our family, it's a part of our life. We love our goldens and they are family. We strive to raise quality goldens. This was a tragic incident for all involved.
> 
> ...


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

drofen said:


> I cannot comment on Molly's situation, however, I am curious as to your response to the GRCA'a position on Goldendoodles, ( Golden Retriever Puppies: Golden Retriever Club of America (GRCA) ) and how you can continue to justify breeding them.
> 
> Secondly the GRCA Code of Ethics (Golden Retriever Club of America - The GRCA Club) specifically recommends waiting until 24 months, and getting 4 clearances: Hips, elbows, heart (by a cardiologist, not a practitioner), and eye CERFs (within one year of breeding.) I've looked at your site, and there is NONE of that information listed for the dogs you are currently breeding (Sucre, Duelly, and Holly [who is retired now?]) There are no AKC registration numbers, or full names listed, so nobody can verify any information about the dogs. In fact, the pedigrees you listed for Deully and Sucre don't list AKC numbers for them either, and the clearances listed are partial at best.
> 
> Further, what specific characteristics of each of these dogs were you hoping to emphasize with your breedings? Meaning, how does each breeding improve the overall breed? What warrants repeat breedings with these dogs that have produced documented severe hip dysplasia?


I think you have the wrong breeder.


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## drofen (Feb 2, 2013)

SheetsSM said:


> I think you have the wrong breeder.


Ooops.

Well, nobody should buy a puppy from Heart of Gold Golden Retrievers in California.

And regarding the breeder under discussion, only partial clearances are listed, and still no registration numbers or names.


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## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

Pamsfam4 said:


> I have bred goldens for more than 18 years. Our daughters have grown up with them. They are responsible hard working adults now. I believe helping with the breeding program has taught them many things and groomed them into the loving, nurturing women they are today. I have many references from happy clients that I'm willing to share. We welcome visitors to come meet our golden family. Thank you.
> 
> Pamela Edwards
> Proud owner of Heart's Of Gold


No offense, and not to speak for anyone else, but if your statement doesn't include a phrase like "I strictly adhere to the GRCA Code of Ethics, and I plan on working diligently to remove hip dysplasia from my breeding program by doing the following:..." then your experience will probably mean very little to the enthusiast members of this forum.


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