# My boy is not feeling well.



## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

He stopped eating his regular food about a week ago he would just pick at it, Kibbles and Bits. He would eat human food but not his regular food.It didn't seem like a eating problem. I changed it to Pedigree moist and the first time he had it he ate it right down. I then bought Kibbles and Bits moist food and mixed it with the Pedigree. He just picked at it. He would still eat human food. Two night ago he was rubbing his snout on the carpet and it seamed itchy. He was also scratching with his hind leg. We didn't think anything of it but in the middle of the night he got us up because he was really scratching it. he kept us up. We took him to the emergency room and they said his ears were clear but there was a small amount of yeast in there. They gave us motazol and to follow the instructions. Now 2 days later and after a couple of treatments he is not himself. He has laid around today and when he walks he seems unsteady. He is having a hard time getting up on the couch and he is walking with his head down. I bought some treats he likes but is uninterested in them. 
I don't know if it the affects of the medicine or something else. He is a 10 years old and has never been sick and is always very active.

thank You


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I don't know if you realize it but Kibbles n Bits is almost the worst food you could feed. 
It is one star on Dog food Advisor, which is their lowest rating. Pedigree is only slightly better. Almost any food at a pet store would be better for him. 
Motazol has an antibiotic and a steroid and a fungicide in it- I would guess the vet was thinking to cover anything in the otic area. He woke you scratching at his leg, and earlier had been bothered by his nose, so the ear treatment I am guessing was the only thing the vet found out of the ordinary? Did they do bloodwork? Because I don't relate the lack of appetite over the last week or so with itching. I haven't ever heard of it causing vertigo or difficulties like you're describing. 

Goldens- especially 10YO Goldens- can have so many things wrong... 
I would change the food- buy a small bag in case he doesn't like it, but get a good food for him. And personally, if his demeanor is that off, I would go get bloodwork and maybe have the vet look at his spleen and stomach. It's his age that makes me fear in that direction.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Please, please, please follow the advice given above. Get back with the vet tomorrow about what is going on, and if the bloodwork wasn't done, insist on tests being run ASAP to get to the bottom of this. Golden Retrievers don't just stop eating for no reason. Please take it seriously. Something like Purina Pro Plan would be worth a try - it's a better quality, you could buy a small bag and see how it goes. Definitely better than the foods you mentioned. Fingers crossed that he is feeling better soon.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

Prism Goldens said:


> I don't know if you realize it but Kibbles n Bits is almost the worst food you could feed.
> It is one star on Dog food Advisor, which is their lowest rating. Pedigree is only slightly better. Almost any food at a pet store would be better for him.
> Motazol has an antibiotic and a steroid and a fungicide in it- I would guess the vet was thinking to cover anything in the otic area. He woke you scratching at his leg, and earlier had been bothered by his nose, so the ear treatment I am guessing was the only thing the vet found out of the ordinary? Did they do bloodwork? Because I don't relate the lack of appetite over the last week or so with itching. I haven't ever heard of it causing vertigo or difficulties like you're describing.
> 
> ...



He has been eating kibbles and Bits for 10 years without a problem.
I also never said he was scratching at his leg. I wasn't bothered by his nose when he was rubbing it on the carpet. We took it as the rubbing of his nose on the carpet may have been a sign of something wrong. And when it became excessive that it woke us we took him to the vet. I never said I put the lack of appetite together as a problem with the itching. I never said he had vertigo, I was asking if the medicine they prescribed would make him walk unsteady and make him lethargic. he is normally an active dog but after taking the medicine for 2 days he seems he wasn't himself.
No bloodwork was done but he was given a check over from the vet who said everything seemed fine. I will give him a couple more days if he dosen't improve I will take him back.

Thank you for your input.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

nolefan said:


> Please, please, please follow the advice given above. Get back with the vet tomorrow about what is going on, and if the bloodwork wasn't done, insist on tests being run ASAP to get to the bottom of this. Golden Retrievers don't just stop eating for no reason. Please take it seriously. Something like Purina Pro Plan would be worth a try - it's a better quality, you could buy a small bag and see how it goes. Definitely better than the foods you mentioned. Fingers crossed that he is feeling better soon.


I never said he stopped eating, I said he stopped eating his food and would eat human food.

i hope he is feeling better soon to. Thank you.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Sorry your boy isn't feeling well. What you are describing could be possible side effects of the medication. I would call your Vet as soon as they are open tomorrow, unless they are open now. 

If he gets any worse during the evening, you may want to take him to an E Vet clinic.


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## IrisBramble (Oct 15, 2015)

Yes please do!!! I hope he feels better 

Please take the advice of the people above they know what they are saying and the advice they give is only out of kindness.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> Sorry your boy isn't feeling well. What you are describing could be possible side effects of the medication. I would call your Vet as soon as they are open tomorrow, unless they are open now.
> 
> If he gets any worse during the evening, you may want to take him to an E Vet clinic.



Thank you for your concern. I was just concerned about the medication having a side affect.
He may not be eating his food but I made him a piece of steak tonight and he ate that.


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## usually lurking (Apr 21, 2017)

rusy95 said:


> He may not be eating his food but I made him a piece of steak tonight and he ate that.


Since he is older, his nutritional requirements have changed. That, if nothing else, would be a great reason to change foods. At ten, higher quality ingredients can only help him live a longer, healthier life. It's entirely possible that, while he'd been fine on the kibbles n bits before, that maybe it's no longer agreeing with him. He may have even developed an allergy to one of the ingredients over time, since you described itchiness prior to the medication for the yeast infection. Food allergies can cause a dog to be more prone to things like yeast infections. If you are willing to feed him steak, which is going to be much more expensive than most dog food, why not try a food like the pro plan sensitive skin and stomach formula (since he's had the yeast infection and seems picky about his kibble) or a good senior food, to help him make the most of his senior years? It might also help you keep your vet bills down, as he'll be getting nutrition that better suits his senior requirements. He also won't need to eat as much of a higher quality food. Less food will help keep his stomach calmer. If you do decide to make the change, do it slowly over 7-10 days, so that he doesn't get an upset stomach.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

You said:



rusy95 said:


> ...._I don't know if it the affects of the medicine or something else._ He is a 10 years old and has never been sick and is always very active.
> 
> thank You


Members of this board who are very knowledgeable answered your question, please don't disregard the good information you've been given. 

It definitely could be the medication making him feel bad at this point. However, there is something going on with him making him feel bad or he would not have stopped eating his regular food. You need to have more tests done by the vet.

The food he has been eating IS a poor quality food and could absolutely be causing the itching and yeast. A better quality food will make him feel better, and improve his over all health.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Ok, I misunderstood- he was scratching WITH his leg, not scratching his leg. But vertigo- I went there from your comment of walking unsteadily, which is what dogs do when they are dizzy. You didn't have to say he was dizzy for me to extrapolate that since I'm familiar with how dogs react. 
Even a completely inappetent dog will usually eat something novel, such as steak or human food. What you described was an inappetent dog. 
You mentioned his lack of appetite as part of what's going on and while you may've been asking about the meds I was looking at the history you reported, the piece of which that was alarming was the inappetence. 
Others have covered the quality of food. It's obvious you love him, not many people will get up in the night and hit the ER when a dog is scratching madly- go that extra step and don't let the past success of KibblesNBits keep you from giving him what his body needs now. And truly, his age and inappetence worry me. Not because he is OLD but because he is a Golden and in prime age for some of our breed's killers.

Here are the side effects of the meds he is on- I do not see anything there that would account for his symptoms but you read them and interpret them yourself:ADVERSE REACTIONS
Gentamicin: While aminoglycosides are absorbed poorly from skin, intoxication may occur when aminoglycosides are applied topically for prolonged periods of time to large wounds, burns, or any denuded skin, particularly if there is renal insufficiency. All aminoglycosides have the potential to produce reversible and irreversible vestibular, cochlear, and renal toxicity. *your description of the small amount of yeast would not be sufficient to cause these side effects if you reported accurately. 
Mometasone: ALP (SAP) and ALT (SGPT) enzyme elevations, weight loss, anorexia, polydipsia, polyuria, neutrophilia, and lymphopenia have occurred following the use of parenteral, high-dose, and/or prolonged or systemic synthetic corticosteroids in dogs. Cushing’s syndrome in dogs has been reported in association with prolonged or repeated steroid therapy.
Clotrimazole: The following have been reported occasionally in humans in connection with the use of clotrimazole: erythema, stinging, blistering, peeling, edema, pruritus, urticaria, and general irritation of the skin not present before therapy.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

Rusty woke up this morning feeling better. He was more active than he was yesterday. He is also more steady on his feet. He still is scratching but I am sure the medicine will start to do it's job.

I will also look into the food we are feeding him. I will make an upgrade for that. Last night he had a nice piece of steak and ate that without a problem.

thanks for the feedback and the suggestions.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

rusy95 said:


> I never said he stopped eating, I said he stopped eating his food and would eat human food.
> 
> i hope he is feeling better soon to. Thank you.


This is the first sign that I noticed when my dog had cancer. At first he went off his normal kibble and would only eat people food. Eventually he wanted nothing. Hopefully this isn't the case with your dog. Good luck.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

Rusty seems better. He has been rubbing his nose on the rug and with his paws. Maybe a skin irritation, I don't see anything there. Also still not eating dog food. I bought about 5 different types but nothing. He has been eating human food. Steak and chop meat with rice. Dosen't have his old appetite yet. Still putting the drops in his ears, I don't know if that was the problem.
If the problem is still there by Monday he goes back to the vet.


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## usually lurking (Apr 21, 2017)

I would ask them to do blood work to see if anything is amiss.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

usually lurking said:


> I would ask them to do blood work to see if anything is amiss.


Yes that will be done.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

An update on Rusty since my last post. it took me almost 5 days to get an appointment at a vet. We are going tomorrow. He seemed to have been getting better. He was eating steak, chop meat, I got him some chopped chicken which he picked at. And some roast beef. Last night my wife made him 2 hamburgers which he ate half of. Today he hasen't eaten. Last night he had some diarrhea, not a lot. He won't eat the treats we get for him, he hasn't played with his toys and he hasen't barked.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

I hope you get some answers at the Vet tomorrow.


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## Olympia (Jan 11, 2010)

I hope everything goes well at the vet tomorrow and it's nothing to serious!!


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

We found out today that Rusty has kidney disease. Right now we are in shock with the news. They took urine samples to see how far gone they are. We will find out the results on Monday. But the blood came back indicating the kidney disease.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm sorry to see this. I know it will be hard to wait till Monday for more information. Did they give you any instructions in the meantime like making sure he has access to water at all times? Do you have an apt to go back in and speak face to face?


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

I'm sorry to hear this.


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

I am sorry, too. Hopefully they will have some treatments to get him feeling better.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm sorry you got this bad news. Kidney disease can be managed with prescription diet and medication and give you quality time with him. I hope the vet has some positive treatment suggestions after they run the tests.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

nolefan said:


> I'm sorry to see this. I know it will be hard to wait till Monday for more information. Did they give you any instructions in the meantime like making sure he has access to water at all times? Do you have an apt to go back in and speak face to face?



My wife will speak to the doctor on Monday. I guess we will find out our options.
It's amazing how fast he went down hill. a week and a half ago he was running around, playing, throwing his toys all over the living room. Running around the back yard. Barking at you to get off his couch. Jumping up into bed with us. I fear those days are just a memory. He is not going to get better. He will just be stabilized so he can exist for a few days, months maybe years. We all know the out come of this story, some of you have been here. He just lays on the couch. He went outside and just looked around the yard like it was the last time he will see his domain.
His quality of life, his seems to be gone now. Do we keep him alive with medicine so our sorrows will be kept in check, sort of kicking the can down the road. Don't worry he will not be put to sleep until it is needed. I hope he just passes.
Don't get me wrong but I will do everything to make him comfortable. He will have food and water and access to the yard when ever he wants it.


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## #cutestdogever (Nov 12, 2017)

Does he get yeast in his ears often? Sometimes a little probiotic in the diet like yogurt or FortiFlora can help that. 

I hope he feels better.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

#cutestdogever said:


> Does he get yeast in his ears often? Sometimes a little probiotic in the diet like yogurt or FortiFlora can help that.
> 
> I hope he feels better.



I think he has bigger problems than yeast in the ears.

He isn't eating at all now, very little water. I got him some fresh turkey and he wouldn't even look at it. He wouldn't eat the special food the doctor gave us for him. He won't let us give him the medicine the doctor gave us. We tried to force it down his throat but it didn't work.
Today we find out about his urine sample. I don't think it will be good news. At this point I don't see a good out come for this.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm sorry for your heartache. Hopefully the vet can come up with something to get him feeling better so you can see if there is a plan. If you like and trust your vet, you can always ask them what they would do if this were their dog. It sometimes helps to get that perspective when trying to figure out what is best for the dog and what is not. I hope if you are able at all you will accompany your wife to the vet visit so you both are involved with getting information, asking questions and making decisions. Two sets of ears are always better than one. I know how awful this is. I"m sorry.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

nolefan said:


> I'm sorry for your heartache. Hopefully the vet can come up with something to get him feeling better so you can see if there is a plan. If you like and trust your vet, you can always ask them what they would do if this were their dog. It sometimes helps to get that perspective when trying to figure out what is best for the dog and what is not. I hope if you are able at all you will accompany your wife to the vet visit so you both are involved with getting information, asking questions and making decisions. Two sets of ears are always better than one. I know how awful this is. I"m sorry.


The doctor is going to call her today. We haven't stopped crying for 3 days. It's awful. We had a Lab that lived to 15 and just died in his sleep. This guy is dying right before our eyes. It happened so fast. He just started to throw up bile this morning, I guess that is all he has in his stomach.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

I'm really sorry, I know how hard this is, I've been through it too many times.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Were you all given an idea of what time you might have results back from the vet? If you haven't heard from them yet this morning, I would either call or just take my dog to the office and ask for a shot or something for nausea and not let him go all day feeling so awful. Be a squeaky wheel. He needs something now. Especially if you're getting the feeling that his time may be looking very short. Both you and your boy deserve to have your last days with him to be as pain free as possible.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

nolefan said:


> Were you all given an idea of what time you might have results back from the vet? If you haven't heard from them yet this morning, I would either call or just take my dog to the office and ask for a shot or something for nausea and not let him go all day feeling so awful. Be a squeaky wheel. He needs something now. Especially if you're getting the feeling that his time may be looking very short. Both you and your boy deserve to have your last days with him to be as pain free as possible.



We were told to call after 12 if we didn't hear from them. I would love to take him but I have to go to work in 2 hours and my wife is already there. My mother in law will be with him until my wife gets home.
As soon as I hear from the vet I will post what they have to say.
I just tried to give him some cookies, just something to get into his stomach and he wants no part of food. I would like to get some Pepcid into him but he will not take it. I would ground it up and put it into his water but he isn't taking any. I feel terrible for my boy.
If he isn't eating he's not going to survive. Especially without water.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

Just a couple of thoughts...I didn't see the actual blood report so I am assuming that my boys *Creatinine and BUN levels were not normal and the number they were indicated kidney disease. Now is there something else that would throw those numbers out of whack and be affecting his kidneys. He threw up a little today but his stool was normal.

i have pecid ac which is what the doctor recommended for his nausea. He won't take the pill so I will ground it up and add it to water and put it into a baster and get it into him like that.
*


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## aao (Jan 7, 2015)

Just a quick couple of thoughts on the Rusty, for the hydration/eating can't the vet keep him for a bit and put him on an iv drip? That's what ended up happening when Polly got pancreatitis as she completely refused food and barely drank any water for a few days.
If not then we have had a fair bit of luck with boiling some chicken and then getting her to drink the chicken flavoured water, even when she wants nothing to do with the chicken or any other foods. You can dissolve the medicine in that.

I should add that goldens can oddly throw up bile when their stomachs are empty, its certainly happened to us a few times

Apart from that I know its incredibly hard but keep you head up for Rusty, we've been through two occasions where we thought that we might be about to lose Polly and thankfully she's pulled through with the right treatment and while sadly its not always the case that the best happens, Rusty is still with you and fighting. Good luck..


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

aao said:


> Just a quick couple of thoughts on the Rusty, for the hydration/eating can't the vet keep him for a bit and put him on an iv drip? That's what ended up happening when Polly got pancreatitis as she completely refused food and barely drank any water for a few days.
> If not then we have had a fair bit of luck with boiling some chicken and then getting her to drink the chicken flavoured water, even when she wants nothing to do with the chicken or any other foods. You can dissolve the medicine in that.
> 
> I should add that goldens can oddly throw up bile when their stomachs are empty, its certainly happened to us a few times
> ...



Got some medicine in him mixed with water. My wife will do the same tonight with the pepcid. Maybe his stomach will get settled and he will eat.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Any update?


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## kardut (May 25, 2017)

rusy95 said:


> Just a couple of thoughts...I didn't see the actual blood report so I am assuming that my boys *Creatinine and BUN levels were not normal and the number they were indicated kidney disease. Now is there something else that would throw those numbers out of whack and be affecting his kidneys. He threw up a little today but his stool was normal.
> 
> i have pecid ac which is what the doctor recommended for his nausea. He won't take the pill so I will ground it up and add it to water and put it into a baster and get it into him like that.
> *




Humans can go into acute kidney failure if they're severely dehydrated, which will be reflected in BUN and creatinine levels. This is quite different from chronic renal disease and is often reversible. Assuming it's the same for dogs, and praying that your boy's issue can be easily treated...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

Heard from the vet...the urine sample shows Rusty has severe damage to his kidneys. She wants to put him in the hospital for 3-4 days to get rehydrated. And she said there is no guarantee that he will be better. She also said we should start thinking of putting him to sleep. We have some decisions to make.


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## Riley's Mom (Jul 6, 2008)

I'm sorry your going through this. I know how you feel as my almost 12 year old was diagnosed a few weeks ago with kidney failure. Did they prescribe a phosphorus binder for him? Elevated phosphorus levels tend to make them not want to eat. It has definitely helped my dog but he is still very picky and I have to get creative to get him to eat.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

They gave me one drug for some ulcers in the GI tract. Then she told us to give him the Pepcid for the nausea. He's not eating at all, hopefully the Pepcid will get rid of the nausea and he might eat. If he doesn't eat he will eventually die.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm sorry, you all have choices to make that no one wants to face. Did you let the vet know that you can't get him to take the pepcid? Have you been able to force some down? I hope that you are able to get him into the vet asap for the i.v. to get him hydrated so he's comfortable while you all have time to think.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Is the vet aware he's not drinking? 
Maybe the vet will send you home w a bag of fluids and show you how to do subQ for him. I know he will feel better if he's hydrated.

The thing I keep thinking of- something is wrong, yes. But if he is dehydrated, his BUN and creatinine will be all off and look like he has kidney damage. I dk if you want to accept that diagnosis or not, but if not, perhaps hydrate him well with an IV and then do his urinalysis and bloodwork. 
I'm sorry.

Edit- dk if your supermarket sells Fresh Pet- it'd be in a little fridge on the pet aisle. But it is like dog crack. If he will eat anything he will eat that. I just hate to see a downward spiral start, when fluids and food may make a different diagnosis apparent. Or not.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

Prism Goldens said:


> Is the vet aware he's not drinking?
> Maybe the vet will send you home w a bag of fluids and show you how to do subQ for him. I know he will feel better if he's hydrated.
> 
> The thing I keep thinking of- something is wrong, yes. But if he is dehydrated, his BUN and creatinine will be all off and look like he has kidney damage. I dk if you want to accept that diagnosis or not, but if not, perhaps hydrate him well with an IV and then do his urinalysis and bloodwork.
> ...


 
He was hydrated at the vets on Saturday after the blood work. He drank some ice water today. There has to be a reason that he is dehydrated, There is plenty of water around for him to drink. The urine also came back showing kidney failure. I will check at the supermarket tomorrow for the food.


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## Siandvm (Jun 22, 2016)

If he has kidney failure and his numbers are high, that makes him feel really terrible. The BUN is especially the one to look for that — once it gets over about 80 they start to feel bad. If he feels bad, he may not feel up to eating or even drinking, even though he is dehydrated. He is dehydrated because kidney failure usually (unless it’s a specific kind where they don’t produce urine at all) causes them to produce dilute urine, even in the face of dehydration when they should be concentrating their urine. The kidneys lose their ability to concentrate the urine. This usually means that you will see a lot of drinking and a lot of peeing. If he is not drinking, he is gettting more dehydrated. If he is getting more dehydrated, he is feeling worse. If he is feeling worse, he may not drink. And so on. You really need to get him in to the vet for the IV fluids now, for his sake. Or, if treatment is not an option, for his sake, make that hard decision to euthanize him. Rehydration from Saturday is just not going to be doing anything today and I can tell you that if his kidneys are failing and he still not eating or drinking, he feels really cruddy and isn’t going to improve without intervention.


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## LynnC (Nov 14, 2015)

I'm so sorry Your pup is going through this. I hope he gets some relief and comfort soon.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

Siandvm said:


> If he has kidney failure and his numbers are high, that makes him feel really terrible. The BUN is especially the one to look for that — once it gets over about 80 they start to feel bad. If he feels bad, he may not feel up to eating or even drinking, even though he is dehydrated. He is dehydrated because kidney failure usually (unless it’s a specific kind where they don’t produce urine at all) causes them to produce dilute urine, even in the face of dehydration when they should be concentrating their urine. The kidneys lose their ability to concentrate the urine. This usually means that you will see a lot of drinking and a lot of peeing. If he is not drinking, he is gettting more dehydrated. If he is getting more dehydrated, he is feeling worse. If he is feeling worse, he may not drink. And so on. You really need to get him in to the vet for the IV fluids now, for his sake. Or, if treatment is not an option, for his sake, make that hard decision to euthanize him. Rehydration from Saturday is just not going to be doing anything today and I can tell you that if his kidneys are failing and he still not eating or drinking, he feels really cruddy and isn’t going to improve without intervention.


 
Prismgoldens just got me more confused. What you have written here makes sense. The hydration is the one they did at the vets office, they injected water or what ever they used to hydrate him under the skin. He had a lump there for awhile. That is what you are talking about? The vet wanted us to put him in the hospital for 3 or 4 days to be on an iv. And then she said it may not make a difference. I am sorry to say this but I don't have $4000 for that treatment. And it doesn't work. Don't get me wrong I would spend what ever it was if I knew he would get well. I feel terrible making it a money thing.
Putting him down is a hard decision especially since he seems normal, maybe not as active as he once was but he doesn't have the symptoms. he isn't drinking a lot, he is peeing normal, his poop was normal today. I actually felt good today because I gave him his medicine and he behaved more normal. He drank water for the first time in a day or so. Right now I am at work and can't make any decision or take him to the vet. My wife is on her way home now and my mother in law is sitting with him.


We are going to have to make a decision soon.


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## Siandvm (Jun 22, 2016)

rusy95 said:


> Prismgoldens just got me more confused. What you have written here makes sense. The hydration is the one they did at the vets office, they injected water or what ever they used to hydrate him under the skin. He had a lump there for awhile. That is what you are talking about? The vet wanted us to put him in the hospital for 3 or 4 days to be on an iv. And then she said it may not make a difference. I am sorry to say this but I don't have $4000 for that treatment. And it doesn't work. Don't get me wrong I would spend what ever it was if I knew he would get well. I feel terrible making it a money thing.
> Putting him down is a hard decision especially since he seems normal, maybe not as active as he once was but he doesn't have the symptoms. he isn't drinking a lot, he is peeing normal, his poop was normal today. I actually felt good today because I gave him his medicine and he behaved more normal. He drank water for the first time in a day or so. Right now I am at work and can't make any decision or take him to the vet. My wife is on her way home now and my mother in law is sitting with him.
> 
> 
> We are going to have to make a decision soon.


Perhaps take him for a second opinion? A lot of what you are describing do not fit with kidney failure at all. What Prism was saying is that dehydration in and of itself, without kidney failure, can cause an increase in BUN. Any vet should know that, which is why you look at the concentration of the urine as well, in addition to other things. I am just concerned that so many things are not adding up. I would hate for you to make a permanent decision based on incorrect information. I think a second opinion would allow you to move forward more confidently. 

If it IS kidney failure, there is no guarantee that the hospitalization and IV fluids would fix him. In fact, if it is chronic kidney failure, it won’t. It will help him get through this acute problem, but his kidneys will still be bad. That can be managed with diet and other things, though, so it is not a death sentence. 

I just feel that you are not getting the information you need from your vet, so you either need to have an in-depth conversation with them, or get a second opinion, or both. It is just impossible for me or anyone here to help you appropriately because we don’t have the information, but it is obvious you need help.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Being dehydrated can make him feel really bad also, and make him not want to eat. you could ask your vet if you can take home fluids and have them show you how to insert the needle under the skin to give it to him every day. Getting fluids on Saturday will not be helping him after this amount of time, he needs it every day.

Did the vet offer any medication or prescription food to help with his kidney function?


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

mylissyk said:


> Being dehydrated can make him feel really bad also, and make him not want to eat. you could ask your vet if you can take home fluids and have them show you how to insert the needle under the skin to give it to him every day. Getting fluids on Saturday will not be helping him after this amount of time, he needs it every day.
> 
> Did the vet offer any medication or prescription food to help with his kidney function?



The vet gave us some medication for ulcers in the GI tract. I don't have the name handy but can get it when I get home from work. She also said to give him Pepcid for his nausea. That would help him get his appetite back.


Heres what I have as symptoms he doesn't want to eat or drink. But yesterday afternoon he drank water with ice in it. He had diarrhea once that I saw (before he drank the water) . Small amount black in color. I saw where he usually goes a couple of piles that were black. Maybe that is where the vet got the ulcers from. My wife told me he went yesterday and it looked normal. He threw up three times that I saw, not a lot. But it was bile, empty stomach. He is lying around but if called will come and he will jump up on the couch or bed. He goes up and down the stairs. He lost about 6 to 8 pounds. But I was feeding him less to have him los some weight. But it seemed to happen fast. We brought him to the ER as I stated in the first post. He was rubbing his face on the rug and we thought he had an ear problem. That was last Monday. After that he seemed to have gotten finicky with his food and then stopped and then stopped the water. He ate roast beef and steak and a few other things we made for him up until 3 or 4 days ago. I am trying to remember what happened the best I can. 


We brought him to the ER on Monday 11/6 for the face rubbing, they gave us ear drops, I think I mentioned the name in an earlier post. After we did the ear drops for a couple of days he started acting weird, not himself. we stopped that and he became more normal. That was a few days, but he didn't seem right and started to stop eating his dog food. That's when I started to give him the human food which he ate. We took him to the vet on this past Saturday after he stopped eating that food. Which she told us he had the kidney problem. So it went from him being normal scratching his face on the carpet to dying of kidney failure in a 2 week period. It just seems odd to me. And like I said I am trying to remember what happened.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

I found this link for the Motazol he was given for the ears. https://www.justanswer.com/dog-health/9edwc-dog-yeast-bacteria-right-ear-prescribed-motazol.html


This persons dog stopped eating and drinking like mine did. Could that have caused dehydration and the kidney problem?


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## Siandvm (Jun 22, 2016)

rusy95 said:


> The vet gave us some medication for ulcers in the GI tract. I don't have the name handy but can get it when I get home from work. She also said to give him Pepcid for his nausea. That would help him get his appetite back.
> 
> 
> Heres what I have as symptoms he doesn't want to eat or drink. But yesterday afternoon he drank water with ice in it. He had diarrhea once that I saw (before he drank the water) . Small amount black in color. I saw where he usually goes a couple of piles that were black. Maybe that is where the vet got the ulcers from. My wife told me he went yesterday and it looked normal. He threw up three times that I saw, not a lot. But it was bile, empty stomach. He is lying around but if called will come and he will jump up on the couch or bed. He goes up and down the stairs. He lost about 6 to 8 pounds. But I was feeding him less to have him los some weight. But it seemed to happen fast. We brought him to the ER as I stated in the first post. He was rubbing his face on the rug and we thought he had an ear problem. That was last Monday. After that he seemed to have gotten finicky with his food and then stopped and then stopped the water. He ate roast beef and steak and a few other things we made for him up until 3 or 4 days ago. I am trying to remember what happened the best I can.
> ...


I really cannot stress enough that I think getting a second opinion would be a good idea. The black poop you are describing indicates bleeding high in his GI tract (like from ulcers, which could be from kidney failure, or from other causes). However, here’s the thing — GI bleeding can increase BUN. If your vet is looking at the increased BUN and diagnosing kidney failure, when the patient is also dehydrated with melena (black poop), they are missing the boat. However, I don’t have the luxury of having examined your dog or seen his blood work, so I don’t know for sure. I just think that there is something not adding up here and you should get a second opinion. Tomorrow!


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

Siandvm said:


> I really cannot stress enough that I think getting a second opinion would be a good idea. The black poop you are describing indicates bleeding high in his GI tract (like from ulcers, which could be from kidney failure, or from other causes). However, here’s the thing — GI bleeding can increase BUN. If your vet is looking at the increased BUN and diagnosing kidney failure, when the patient is also dehydrated with melena (black poop), they are missing the boat. However, I don’t have the luxury of having examined your dog or seen his blood work, so I don’t know for sure. I just think that there is something not adding up here and you should get a second opinion. Tomorrow!


 


The vet also went on the urine sample as having the kidney failure.




My dog was fine until he went to the ER for the face rubbing /ear infection and was put on that medication. We used those drops and he started acting strange and we stopped after 4 days and he went back to normal. Did you read the link I supplied with the medicine he was given and the affect it had on that dog. Rusty never took any medicine in his life. But in the mean time he had started to get finicky with his food and water. And eventually stopped eating and limited drinking. I am sitting here in work going over everything in my head. Trying to piece together the last 2 weeks with him.




My wife checked his last poop and it was normal colored, that was today. (Monday).


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

If it was me, I would try to get into a regular vet, not an ER and tell them everything that happened and what you think about the ear medicine. A regular vet is usually less expensive also.


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

I'm not sure if you are aware, but Siandvm IS a veterinarian himself and is trying to help you and URGING you to get a second opinion. Delaying really doesn't seem to be an option right now, and you appear to be in denial of the seriousness of what is going on. 

You MIGHT have a fixable problem, but it could turn out NOT to be, if you delay. I would print all of his posts and take them with you to a new veterinarian for a second opinion if this was what was presenting to me with Noah. 

I had a cat with kidney failure. I had to administer sub-Q fluids twice a day myself for him for six months before he finally succumbed to the disease and I made the decision to let him go and have him euthanized. He also was on a special diet and medications to support him. He's the reason that all my pets are on pet insurance now. 

AND btw - the first vet he went to wanted me to put him down when he was diagnosed. I told him "he hasn't give up fighting, don't you give up on him" and I checked him out from that vet and went directly to another vet for a second opinion, a vet who knew more about the disease and was able to support us in his supportive care. This was a 6 year old cat by the way - who was rescued as a feral kitten. Who knows if he ingested something as a kitten that caused his chronic renal failure, or if he was born with the condition. 

I can say this - one treatment of IV fluids is not enough if it is kidney failure. You may very well need to be administering ringers lactate yourself for the rest of his life. Possibly once a day, possibly twice a day.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

rabernet said:


> I'm not sure if you are aware, but Siandvm IS a veterinarian himself and is trying to help you and URGING you to get a second opinion. Delaying really doesn't seem to be an option right now, and you appear to be in denial of the seriousness of what is going on.
> 
> You MIGHT have a fixable problem, but it could turn out NOT to be, if you delay. I would print all of his posts and take them with you to a new veterinarian for a second opinion if this was what was presenting to me with Noah.
> 
> ...


How can you say "you appear to be in denial of the seriousness of what is going on". I know exactly whats going on. My dog is sick and I want to get him well again. And I am going to get a second opinion. But it is 6AM where I live and there are no vets open at this time of the morning and we have to call and make sure I can get him in. Right now I just got home from work and am trying to figure out what food to buy today to see if I can get him to eat and how I can get some water into him.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

got home from work and rusty was sleeping on the couch he got up to greet me and followed me into the bed room. He got up on the bed and is sleeping.

The vet gave me sucralfate for the ulcers in the GI tract. But I don't understand how she gave it to him without checking his stool. Also when he went last night it was normal color.

i am taking my wife to work and will get another appointment with a vet for today.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

rabernet said:


> ....Siandvm IS a veterinarian himself and is trying to help you and URGING you to *get a second opinion.* Delaying really doesn't seem to be an option right now.....You MIGHT have a fixable problem, but it could turn out NOT to be, if you delay. ....


If this were my dog I would call in sick from work, get the records from the first vet and ER vet, and drive as many hours as I needed to, to find a vet to get a second opinion. 

It is not fair to the dog to delay getting the information you need to make a good decision. This conversation has been going on for quite a while now and all this time he has been a very sick dog. Please don't let him suffer needlessly. There is no shame in acknowledging the fact that there are limited resources for spending on treatment. The shame would lie in not doing anything at all while he dies a slow and painful death.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

I posted while you were posting, thank you for updating, I have been thinking about your boy a lot.


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

rusy95 said:


> How can you say "you appear to be in denial of the seriousness of what is going on". I know exactly whats going on. My dog is sick and I want to get him well again. And I am going to get a second opinion. But it is 6AM where I live and there are no vets open at this time of the morning and we have to call and make sure I can get him in. Right now I just got home from work and am trying to figure out what food to buy today to see if I can get him to eat and how I can get some water into him.


Perhaps that was a poor choice of words, but it appeared to me, every time Siamdvm made a suggestion, you replied with the fact that he's acting better, doing better and it appeared you were minimizing the seriousness of what is going on. If that is not the case, I apologize.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

So sorry you are going through all of this with your pup. It is a lot to deal with, to try make sense of. It is heart breaking, confusing and scary too, when we don't know what is happening or why with our best friends.

Just want to lend my voice of support. I hope you have some answers soon, and things turn out well for you and your pup.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

rusy95 said:


> Prismgoldens just got me more confused. What you have written here makes sense. The hydration is the one they did at the vets office, they injected water or what ever they used to hydrate him under the skin. He had a lump there for awhile. That is what you are talking about? The vet wanted us to put him in the hospital for 3 or 4 days to be on an iv. And then she said it may not make a difference. I am sorry to say this but I don't have $4000 for that treatment. And it doesn't work. Don't get me wrong I would spend what ever it was if I knew he would get well. I feel terrible making it a money thing.
> Putting him down is a hard decision especially since he seems normal, maybe not as active as he once was but he doesn't have the symptoms. he isn't drinking a lot, he is peeing normal, his poop was normal today. I actually felt good today because I gave him his medicine and he behaved more normal. He drank water for the first time in a day or so. Right now I am at work and can't make any decision or take him to the vet. My wife is on her way home now and my mother in law is sitting with him.
> 
> 
> We are going to have to make a decision soon.


I'm sorry. I have been assuming a level of understanding on kidney function as well as your vet's grasp of what might be causing the BUN to be up besides kidney function. To get a good value from the blood work, one that is reliable , he'd have to be on IV fluids for 48 hours or so (SIANDVM would be a better time guesser than me) and THEN do the blood work. A subQ wouldn't have much value to him days later, and his urinalysis isn't going to be reliable either. Kidneys are miraculous organs- but they are finely tuned and for any values to be useful for a diagnosis of their function, there can't be anorexia or dehydration in place too. The body is a huge chemistry lab that relies on all the feedback that's in place when it's working well- and if it's not working well, creating an adequately hydrated and nourished body then doing the tests is best way to see what's really wrong. All along, some of the statements you've made imply kidney issues and other statements do not- so I feel your vet should probably look for the zebra instead of the horses when she hears hoofbeats. If an elevated BUN and creatinine absolutely diagnosed kidney failure in all situations, that'd be grand- but it doesn't. I know this is hard, and it's kinda like trying to cram in a college level chemistry/biology/physiology course in a weeks time. Which is why it'd be helpful to have a diagnostician for a vet instead of what you're getting. Like I posted back a ways, it might be that your boy has kidney failure, yes. But it also might not be. Once they stop eating and get dehydrated, they can seriously lay down and die- inappetence and dehydration make dogs not feel like living. And dehydration will cause kidney failure, even if kidney failure isn't why the dehydration started. It all snowballs. And if you are getting an estimate of $4K for 3 days' watching and fluids, that is over the top crazy. IV fluids (ringers not some specialized ones) costs less than $10 per 1000 ml. An average dog needs at least 10oz of water per 10# body weight a day to have normal body chemistry. That's a considerable amount - if he weighs 70# that's just over 2 quarts a day.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Here's a start according to your posts (like, you posted on the 8th it'd been a week since he'd eaten well) so you print it out and then add in what you remember noticing when, and print out your blood work and the vet notes which would give second opinion some groundwork done. Also print out what SIANDVM said- she is a vet. 

11-1 not eating (Kibbles N Bits) began
11-6 began rubbing nose on carpet, scratching-
bothered him enough owner went to ER where they dx ear yeast, sent home w Motazol.
11-8 had had a couple treatments w Motazol, began walking unsteady with head down, cannot easily get on couch. Still inappetent.
11-9 thru 11- seems to feel better, but still not eating. Tried 5different foods. Still using Motazol
11-16 only eating human type food, had diarrhea 11-15. Has not barked, or played.
11-18 saw vet- suspects kidney disease. Did urinalysis. 
11-20 began throwing up bile


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## Olympia (Jan 11, 2010)

rusy95 said:


> How can you say "you appear to be in denial of the seriousness of what is going on". I know exactly whats going on. My dog is sick and I want to get him well again. And I am going to get a second opinion. But it is 6AM where I live and there are no vets open at this time of the morning and we have to call and make sure I can get him in. Right now I just got home from work and am trying to figure out what food to buy today to see if I can get him to eat and how I can get some water into him.


Have you been able to get him to eat anything? When my dogs wouldn't eat their regular food I fed them baby food (the meat ones) also you said you were having trouble getting him to drink water, does he seem dehydrated? if so I would ask the vet about maybe giving him a mix of pedialyte and water you may have to resort to using a syringe if he's not taking any water in on his own...


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## KKaren (Oct 29, 2014)

rusy95 said:


> got home from work and rusty was sleeping on the couch he got up to greet me and followed me into the bed room. He got up on the bed and is sleeping.
> 
> The vet gave me sucralfate for the ulcers in the GI tract. But I don't understand how she gave it to him without checking his stool. Also when he went last night it was normal color.
> 
> i am taking my wife to work and will get another appointment with a vet for today.


Hang in there, I have been reading your thread and I'm sorry. It's so very worrying. I hope things are better today for your Rusty.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

Just got back from the vets. It wasn't good news. His numbers were off the charts. His BUN was 130. He went thru everything and explained how the numbers work. he said Rusty dosen't have much longer and that death would not be painless for him if not put to sleep. Now the hard part........


Thank you all for your help in this hard time. I knew in my heart this wasn't going to end well.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm so sorry. Thank you for loving him enough to let him go. It's so very hard.


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

I am so sorry. I was hoping they could find a way to give him a little more time with a decent quality of life.


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

So sorry for the news.


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## Siandvm (Jun 22, 2016)

I’m so very sorry to hear that, but glad you got to go through everything with the vet. There would still be nothing wrong with getting a second opinion if getting a fresh set of eyes on him and his results would help you come to terms with things. Either way, as I said, I’m very sorry for your heartbreak.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

Siandvm said:


> I’m so very sorry to hear that, but glad you got to go through everything with the vet. There would still be nothing wrong with getting a second opinion if getting a fresh set of eyes on him and his results would help you come to terms with things. Either way, as I said, I’m very sorry for your heartbreak.


This was the second vet. Thank you for taking the time to explain things to me.


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## Siandvm (Jun 22, 2016)

rusy95 said:


> This was the second vet. Thank you for taking the time to explain things to me.


Ah, my mistake, I’m sorry. You’re very welcome, and I’m just so sorry for what you and he are going through.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

rusy95 said:


> Just got back from the vets. It wasn't good news. His numbers were off the charts. His BUN was 130. He went thru everything and explained how the numbers work. he said Rusty dosen't have much longer and that death would not be painless for him if not put to sleep. Now the hard part........
> 
> 
> Thank you all for your help in this hard time. I knew in my heart this wasn't going to end well.


I'm so sorry. 
Run free, Rusty. Know your people will miss you forever...


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

And Rusy95, please know that many of us are hurting with you tonight- 
we get very invested in these lives we get to know such a short time. Try to feel some peace.


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## ClipsSu81 (Aug 12, 2017)

=( I'm so so so sorry .... 

Reading this heart break made me miss my Raine so much... <3 It does get better but takes time.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

Thank you everyone for your kind words. Rusty spent his last evening surrounded by family. he is such a kind and loving dog. Everyone that came in contact with him loved him. He has a personality that could charm anyone. He was always full of life and he made you happy when ever he was around. He loved his pizza and a good steak. He loved to hide one of your shoes or sneakers. Then when you weren't looking it would turn up.
Thank you all again. My boy will be missed.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

rusy95 said:


> Thank you everyone for your kind words. Rusty spent his last evening surrounded by family. he is such a kind and loving dog. Everyone that came in contact with him loved him. He has a personality that could charm anyone. He was always full of life and he made you happy when ever he was around. He loved his pizza and a good steak. He loved to hide one of your shoes or sneakers. Then when you weren't looking it would turn up.
> Thank you all again. My boy will be missed.


Thank you for telling us a little about him. It sometimes helps to talk with people who understand. If you have any photos or favorite stories about him that you'd like to share when you are up to it, we would love to see and hear more about him. All of our hearts are hurting for you.


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## swishywagga (Nov 13, 2012)

I am so very sorry for the loss of your precious boy Rusty.


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

I'm so sorry that you had to say goodbye to Rusty. Please share pictures when you feel up to it.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

I will post some later on thank you. Also how do I post pictures.


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## Cathy's Gunner (Dec 4, 2008)

I’m so very sorry to hear about Rusty. Sending big hugs from us.


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## Olympia (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm so very sorry for your loss, Rusty sounds like he was an amazing companion!!


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## dlmrun2002 (Mar 4, 2011)

May Rusty find peace and run with all the special goldens that we have watched cross the bridge. You did a great job caring for him and gave him a great life. Pizza and steak sounds good to any golden. Rest assured Rusty loved how you cared for him and how you gave him every chance at the end. I hope you find some bright moments when you think of the great life Rusty shared with you.

Godspeed to Rusty

dlm ny country

“Dogs come into our lives to teach us about love; they depart to teach us about loss. A new dog never replaces an old dog, it merely expands the heart. If you have loved many dogs, your heart is very big.” – Erica Jong


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

Rusty passed this afternoon and I will always remember this kind sweet dog.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

rusy95 said:


> Just got back from the vets. It wasn't good news. His numbers were off the charts. His BUN was 130. He went thru everything and explained how the numbers work. he said Rusty dosen't have much longer and that death would not be painless for him if not put to sleep. Now the hard part........
> 
> 
> Thank you all for your help in this hard time. I knew in my heart this wasn't going to end well.


I am so very sorry to hear this update. I was really hoping supportive care would help and give you more quality time with him.


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## showlace (Dec 25, 2009)

There are no words - we know what you are going through. We just lost our pup last week to an unexplained illness. 

We are getting through it like you. Feel free to message me if you need some support.

When you get your next pup (please please continue the golden love, you will be so sad without one) get pet insurance so you never have to make a decision based on money. It's worth EVERY penny!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

rusy95 said:


> Rusty passed this afternoon and I will always remember this kind sweet dog.


I am so sorry, my heart goes out to you.


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## IrisBramble (Oct 15, 2015)

I'm so very sorry to hear about Rusty i have followed this thread and Thank you so much for telling us a little something about him and sharing a little about his life.

My thoughts go out to you and your Wife for healing.


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## Siandvm (Jun 22, 2016)

I’m very sorry! It sounds, from what you have told us, that you made a kind and generous decision, even though it was difficult. It’s the most loving gift we can give them in the end, after all the love they give us. Run free, Rusty!


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