# Golden Retriever and Cavalier King Charles??



## Tinsley (Nov 11, 2008)

My friend and her parents are planning on breeding her bitch, a cavalier king charles, once, just as they think its nice to let her have a litter. Its also a possibility that I might get another dog so Roo has company. Roo is quite loopy at the moment, but he's still a puppy and he is better now he has turned 6mo's. I definitely wouldn't get one if he was loopy still and less than 18months/two years for definite, maybe even later.

I was wondering if any of you have or know of anyone with a golden and a cavlier? And how well they get on..? My boyfriend has a standard poodle and a yorkshire terrier cross lhasa apso who get on really well, the poodle being 3 years old when he met the yorkie aspo...any views?


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

I have no experience with having a golden and a Cavalier, but I think your friend's reasons for breeding her dog are completely wrong.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

Tinsley said:


> I was wondering if any of you have or know of anyone with a golden and a cavlier? And how well they get on..? My boyfriend has a standard poodle and a yorkshire terrier cross lhasa apso who get on really well, the poodle being 3 years old when he met the yorkie aspo...any views?


I'm not touching the first part....:no:

For the second part, I really like cavs. For a little dog they act like big dogs - they aren't yappy, etc - or the ones I've met anyway. There are a lot of health problems with the breed (one of the reasons I'm not getting into the first part) - even really diligent breeders are struggling with heart problems. Temperament seems to be consistantly good - at least in what I've seen. My guys have Cav friends and they get along with the goldens - but part of that is that my goldens get along with everyone too. 

My only objection to the cavs is the silly tufty hair on their feet that isn't supposed to be trimmed. It drives me crazy! If I ever had one he'd have neatly clipped feet!

Erica


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

I have no doubt a Golden could get along with any dog, especially if its brought in as a puppy and grows up with your dog.


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## Prov31 (Aug 16, 2006)

I have both breeds and they get along great. They are both very gentle dogs though. Cavaliers are a wonderful little dog, however, they are prone to certain health problems (like Goldens can be). I would strongly discourage anyone from just breeding a dog for the experience. A Cavalier should never be bred without all of the health clearances that are so important. If you truly want a smaller dog, I would suggest that you research and get one from a breeder that has done the annual eye, heart, elbow, knee and other clearances. It will save everyone lots of heartache and money in the future. 

We won't be without at least one Golden and one Cavalier ever. Both are tremendous dogs.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

MurphyTeller said:


> I'm not touching the first part....:no:
> 
> For the second part, I really like cavs. For a little dog they act like big dogs - they aren't yappy, etc - or the ones I've met anyway. There are a lot of health problems with the breed (one of the reasons I'm not getting into the first part) - even really diligent breeders are struggling with heart problems. Temperament seems to be consistantly good - at least in what I've seen. My guys have Cav friends and they get along with the goldens - but part of that is that my goldens get along with everyone too.
> 
> ...


 
I could have totally written that post - word for word! I've considered them as a little dog, but would have to be honest with the breeder and let them know we don't have grinch feet in this house. I know a breeder at least so I know the dogs would be healthy (they're a mess healthwise, which is a shame 'cause they're so sweet), but not sure how she'd go for trimmed toesies.

Lana


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## Prov31 (Aug 16, 2006)

MurphyTeller said:


> My only objection to the cavs is the silly tufty hair on their feet that isn't supposed to be trimmed. It drives me crazy! If I ever had one he'd have neatly clipped feet!
> 
> Erica


That's too funny! I keep our Golden's feet trimmed all the time. But since a Cavalier is supposed to have the "slippers", it doesn't bother me at all. But show me a Golden with fluffy feet, and I want to grab the scissors!


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## FranH (May 8, 2005)

I do know someone with both. I will see if she wants to join the forum and help out with this question


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## bwoz (Jul 12, 2007)

Can I jump in and ask a question? I've been thinking about a cavalier for awhile, but how much exercise do they need? As far as a walk, how far can they go?


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

My friend in GRRIN who fostered Dannyra's golden has two goldens and a Cav. She says she will always have a golden and a cav though she now thinks three (plus two cats) are a little much!
She got her Cav from a breeder in Wyoming.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

c


MurphyTeller said:


> I'm not touching the first part....:no:
> 
> For the second part, I really like cavs. For a little dog they act like big dogs - they aren't yappy, etc - or the ones I've met anyway. There are a lot of health problems with the breed (one of the reasons I'm not getting into the first part) - even really diligent breeders are struggling with heart problems. Temperament seems to be consistantly good - at least in what I've seen. My guys have Cav friends and they get along with the goldens - but part of that is that my goldens get along with everyone too.
> 
> ...


 
Cavs are nice little dogs - very "sporting" dog in temperament. I WILL touch the first part and say that if they have not done so already, at the very least your friends should have a veterinary cardiologist clear her, as Cavs are known to have terrible heart problems, hereditary in nature. I wouldn't touch one whose sire AND dam didn't have clearances. Beyond that, I also am not a fan of their reasoning to breed her.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> c
> 
> 
> Cavs are nice little dogs - very "sporting" dog in temperament. I WILL touch the first part and say that if they have not done so already, at the very least your friends should have a veterinary cardiologist clear her, as Cavs are known to have terrible heart problems, hereditary in nature. I wouldn't touch one whose sire AND dam didn't have clearances. Beyond that, I also am not a fan of their reasoning to breed her.


The cav breeders I know around here are doing annual cardiac exams on their dogs and requiring the same of their puppy buyers so that they can get a better idea of what is going on in their lines and the breed. There's a problem with cavs clearing once or twice then having problems when they are older.

If you are thinking about adding a cav - from any source - you are wise to do your homework regarding clearances and what health information is available in specific lines...my understanding is that there are lines with very little cardiac problems and those that seem to have a lot of problems - you want the breeder of your cav puppy to be knowledgeable about their lines.

Erica


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## skeller (Mar 5, 2008)

We have a golden and a cavachon, which is a cavalier and bichon mix. Katie has a true cavalier personality, very affectionate and as sweet as can be. Benny is a big affectionate goof. They get along great as this picture shows.


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## Tinsley (Nov 11, 2008)

Thank you very much for all the replies, very useful! I had a brief look about at local cavalier puppies for sale, and parents have no clearances at all. I take it the health issues are the same in the United Kingdom as the USA too, as it is in terms of goldens re. hip dysplasia in particular.

My friend actually got her dog from a puppy farm, not that she knew it at the time. My friend's dad wants to breed Poppy now, but my friend isn't so keen. I also wondered whether there is much point in breeding her, I don't suppose she would think about puppies and having them, so I don't think she needs the experience so much either...I don't think there is a lot I could say to make them decide otherwise so I thought it best I try and gather information on how they SHOULD breed her if they do...

Apparently, there is issues with cavaliers being bred to have smaller heads, and over here in the UK there have been stories covered up about cavalier puppies dying as their brains put so much pressure on their heads as they have been bred so small, but I don't know if that was my other friend lying about pedigrees, despite the fact she has a pedigree..! She has this view you should never have one etc. Only reason I got a puppy and not a rescue is because I have two cats, and the nearest lab/golden rescue wont let them go to homes if you are out longer than 2 hours a day anyway...

I think I am tempted to steer clear now if they do breed her, none of the stud dogs I have seen have any clearances within a 200 mile radius...


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

I think it's wise to steer clear, partially because of the clearances, and partially because of the issues you're having with Roo.
While you're probably hoping that having another dog in the house might make the "pack order" problems disappear, in my amateur opinion, they might actually get worse. 
And while your brothers are gone for now, I assume it's not for good. 
A month ago you were wondering about rehoming Roo--and many were agreeing with you. If things are going better now, that's great. But I don't think it makes sense to add a volatile new element into the mix. Or to put it another way, leave well enough alone.


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## PeggyK (Apr 16, 2005)

My father's King Charles Cav, Buddy, lived with us when my father had to go into a home. He was the cutest thing. He died of congestive heart failure-many Cavaliers seem to have heart problems.


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## Tinsley (Nov 11, 2008)

avincent52 said:


> I think it's wise to steer clear, partially because of the clearances, and partially because of the issues you're having with Roo.
> While you're probably hoping that having another dog in the house might make the "pack order" problems disappear, in my amateur opinion, they might actually get worse.
> And while your brothers are gone for now, I assume it's not for good.
> A month ago you were wondering about rehoming Roo--and many were agreeing with you. If things are going better now, that's great. But I don't think it makes sense to add a volatile new element into the mix. Or to put it another way, leave well enough alone.


By no means are the issues with Roo's dominance sorted, I know that. I've seen two different behaviourists about him and they've seen him in his home environment and away from it and say he is just being dominant, and things are getting better slowly. I also said though, that IF I get another dog it will be in at least a year, possibly two years time when Roo is much older. I'd not get one whilst we're having constant squabbles as it wouldn't be fair on a new pup or Roo, I'm aware of that. One brother wont be home anymore, he has a job in London when he finishes uni in May/June and wont be around unless he comes up to visit for a weekend off sometime, so I think that will help with Roo too. I take all of your points on board though, thank you for the reply!

My main reasons for wanting another dog for Roo are so that he can really let loose with another dog, as with me I wont let him play fight me etc, and I think it'd be nice to let him burn off some steam and to have another dog in the house eventually. I know he hasn't been with another dog so doesn't know what he is missing, but I think it'd be nice to offer another dog a home, it might end up being a rescue if they don't mind us being out 3/4 hours a day. Roo will always come first though, if it doesn't seem right for him to have another dog around then I wont get one, simple as. I just can't help feel when he's older he might like the company.


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## Tinsley (Nov 11, 2008)

PeggyK said:


> My father's King Charles Cav, Buddy, lived with us when my father had to go into a home. He was the cutest thing. He died of congestive heart failure-many Cavaliers seem to have heart problems.


Oh he's gorgeous! Poor little man, its lovely you could give him a home though!


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Cavs are the SWEETEST dogs ever - my uncle's family had one for 8 years, and he got along wonderfully with my golden Carmella. He was so sweet, so well behaved, and he never barked his entire life.

Unfortunately, as people have said about KCCS, Toby suffered from some health problems - at age 2 he started having seizures, and I think around age 4 or 5 they discovered he had a heart problem. At age 8, during a routine teeth cleaning involving anesthesia, Toby suffered heart failure and died on the table. My uncle's family was devastated. They now have a new puppy, an english labrador (don't know what THAT is), and are in love with it.

Anyways, I think cavs are a great choice personality-wise, but you have to be really careful with the health issue.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

I think you are wise to avoid a puppy from your friend's family. It's hard, no, impossible, for me to understand why anyone would breed a dog from a puppy mill and with no health clearances. If you do decide to get a Cav in the future, you now can make an informed decision about your puppy. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.


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## redhare (Mar 12, 2008)

DH and I had seriously looked into getting a Cavalier (they and Goldens are our top 2 picks), and have changed our minds given the health problems these sweet little dogs have.

Breeders are supposed to follow very stringent breeding protocols, and we discovered in our search that even very well-respected breeders ignore the protocols for breeding and screening for Mitral Valve Disease (MVD) and, more often, Syringomyelia (SM). There are a couple of very good sites about Cavaliers and health issues, I'll PM you these. (Will post for others if OK?)

There is also a documentary done in the UK called Pedigree Dogs Exposed that shows health issues of several breeds, and includes very tough to watch footage of a Cavalier with SM. You should be able to still view the show on YouTube.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Two reasons I'd not have one...

Mainly- heart problems are a HUGE GIANT issue in this breed

And, I don't care for small dogs... but for a small dog I do like them. They seem kind of slow and lazy to me though. I'm fine with that in a sighthound, but the thought of a kind of lazy, fat'ish dog that can't tolerate heat at all would bother me. I like really fit looking, athletic dogs. The ones I see around here in Florida really seem to struggle.

LOL I don't like the foot hair either- I would definitely trim it, since I would not show it if I had one. I think it looks like neglect in a Golden or CKC. However, I LOVE toe feathering in Salukis  But they don't tend to get a huge hairy foot that tracks in mess or looks scruffy the way Goldens do.


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## Tinsley (Nov 11, 2008)

redhare said:


> DH and I had seriously looked into getting a Cavalier (they and Goldens are our top 2 picks), and have changed our minds given the health problems these sweet little dogs have.
> 
> Breeders are supposed to follow very stringent breeding protocols, and we discovered in our search that even very well-respected breeders ignore the protocols for breeding and screening for Mitral Valve Disease (MVD) and, more often, Syringomyelia (SM). There are a couple of very good sites about Cavaliers and health issues, I'll PM you these. (Will post for others if OK?)
> 
> There is also a documentary done in the UK called Pedigree Dogs Exposed that shows health issues of several breeds, and includes very tough to watch footage of a Cavalier with SM. You should be able to still view the show on YouTube.


Great, thank you very much! Hearing about all these sad stories of cavaliers I am tempted to steer clear of them as a breed...a website that advertises pets, all the adverts for goldens, breeders say they have both parents hip scored/eye certificates etc, but for cavaliers they have nothing at all, and surely they would promote the fact the parents have been tested, so they must not test them. I think that's awful and it'd break my heart and no doubt Roo's if he had a friend he became attached to who got very ill.

I plan on getting Roo hip scored just so that I know what state his hips are in, its only about £30 (GBP) about 43 USD I think. I don't think I would ever breed from Roo, but if I were to I don't think I'd allow him to mate with any dog without clearances on hips/eyes etc, I have to question the morals of some breeders who don't bother...


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## DianeD (Jul 12, 2007)

Chiming in here - we have 2 Cavaliers and 2 Goldens - one Cav is a rescue that we just adopted late January and is wonderful (except for the marking issue which we're working on).

I can say that as far as exercise, they can either sleep all day or if you choose, they can run all day - both of ours totally keep up with Chase, our 1-yr old Golden, and spent about an hour or so each day at the local state park running around (and even swimming when it's warm). But they do not seem to require much exercise, unlike Goldens or Labs. So they are more like sporting dogs in miniature than they are toys (I still can't understand why they're in the Toy Group - I think they belong with the other Spaniels!!)

HOWEVER - our experience has been that as far as playing, Chase is just too big to really enjoy playing with the Cavs. He just seems to sense he can't let it all out like he can with his senior Golden sister. Also, we got Chase as a puppy when Geordie was almost 2, and he really ended up almost tormenting Geordie (as I have posted in the past) - it's play but a lot of times was really rough play and Geordie would run and hide to get away from him. Now with an older Golden and a younger Cav, that might not be the case at all.

I won't add anything about the breeding issue except to ditto everything everyone has said about it. ESPECIALLY Cavs - if you've ever seen a video about a Cav with SM (syringomyelia) it is just too heartbreaking and would change anyone's mind about breeding unless they had ironclad clearances (and even then ....) I understand MRI's can generally be too expensive for routine clearances, and of course the heart issues.... 

Another thing I learned -- small dogs can have different housebreaking attitudes than large dogs - I had an awful time with Geordie (of course, he had been with the breeder for 8 months before we got him, so he was crate-trained which -- I learned -- is TOTALLY DIFFERENT from housebroken!!) I thought, I'd rather housetrain 10 goldens than 1 Cavalier!! But then, there are Cavs who are amazingly easy.

Cavalier Rescue is awesome - they do so much for those dogs, and it's amazing how many there are in rescue, esp. this past year (economics, etc. etc.). 

Diane


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## redhare (Mar 12, 2008)

And I don't want to sound like all doom and gloom, they are such sweet and wonderful dogs, and you do hear of many who live into their teens, but the average age seems to be falling closer to 9. Every Cavalier we have met has been so loving and wonderful, and it makes me so sad that their health issues are so severe. MVD is so prevalent that I've heard the expression that it isn't IF a Cavalier will develop it, but WHEN in their lifetime.


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## DianeD (Jul 12, 2007)

OH - PS -- I LOVE the "grinch-feet"!! One of the rescue foster's own Cavaliers has slipper feet the size of salad plates !!! But they are a pain in the winter (little snow balls get in there) and in the summer (thorns and such). And depending on the particular coat of the dog they can be easy as pie (Teddy the Black & Tan, never tangles or mats, has nice thick hair, but Geordie has baby fine hair that mats if you look at it!)


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## spruce (Mar 13, 2008)

Goldies & Cavs look great together - that's all I know


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