# Rush Hill and Yogi Pros and Cons



## FosterGolden (Mar 10, 2014)

Looking at three litters. One is Rush Hill influences and one is Yogi influences. I know that a person has to look at the bigger picture. That said, I am hearing a lot of very strong opinions on both. So, just wondering what y'all think? And, how would you compare one of these guys to Stanley Steamer (I know, very different, but looking for opinions, thoughts to ponder, etc. on all three). Thank you!


(P.S. Yes, I am looking for a performance dog for high level obedience, agility and hunt tests.)


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I just think those 3 go into completely different categories.... 

Stanley Steamer - if you want a dynamic dog that is EVERYTHING YOU WANT in a working dog. You cannot go wrong with a pup closely related to him. I know (and have) personal criticisms of other stuff, but those are easily put aside when it comes to getting a dog that loves to play (ie work). And was born to "play". 

Rush Hill - I primarily think of 1-3 big name conformation dogs and a very typey look. These are going to be well-rounded dogs who would be nice to play with + pretty to look at. Not anywhere close to a SS pup though. 

Yogi - I know of a lot of dogs locally who come from him. I think they are fantastic obedience dogs. And some of them, depending on the lines, need to do more than just obedience because they are a lot of dog. They are busy. And some of them have people wondering how on earth they get the high scores in obedience that they do, because they are quiet workers who are not turning the world upside down with flamboyance. 

Of the 3 - I'd probably go with a Yogi type dog. There are a couple negative things which I've heard along the grapevine. But I do see a lot of nice dogs out there.

***If you want a dog that requires very little motivation work on your part to get him to do stuff - I think a SS pup would be best. And if you want a more moderate dog who is capable of doing stuff you want, but probably needs more motivation work on your part, Rush Hill. And then Yogi lines depend on the dog and what the dog was specifically bred for. 

(I might be all wrong with Rush Hill - it might be there's some people breeding more drivey and dynamic working dogs)

Also, bottom line is my gut feeling on upper level titles is it's not just pedigree. There's health, mental health of the dog, and physical structure of the dog which can hamper or aid results. The saddest thing to my mind is buying a puppy from a big working type breeder and having the dog come up with 2 bad elbows because the breeder did not mind cutting corners and gambling when breeding dogs with elbow dysplasia, even knowing majority of her puppy buyers are going to be doing "stuff" with their dogs. 

And then the other thing is a handler can hold a dog back by not pushing forward when it's time. I'm personally guilty of that because let's be honest, a dog is perfect if he doesn't fail in trials. So if you train for forever and avoid trialing your dog, he's perfect. LOL. And believe me, I can come up with ten million reasons to avoid entering trials. And come May, I'll be running out of 1 of those reasons...


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

A key question is how far back in the pedigree are the influences in each case?


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## FosterGolden (Mar 10, 2014)

Megora said:


> I just think those 3 go into completely different categories....
> 
> Stanley Steamer - if you want a dynamic dog that is EVERYTHING YOU WANT in a working dog. You cannot go wrong with a pup closely related to him. I know (and have) personal criticisms of other stuff, but those are easily put aside when it comes to getting a dog that loves to play (ie work). And was born to "play".
> 
> ...



Thanks for your thoughts. 


The breeders these pups are from are all very highly regarded. I started with a longer list and was able to really narrow things down to two very top breeders and one smaller hobby breeder with an excellent track record who is mentored by one of these top breeders. I feel confident in them. But man, lots of hard decisions!


There are a ton of reasons why a dog may or may not do well in performance events, for sure, and the pedigree is only one portion of it when it comes to finding what you are looking for in a partner. I've communicated to all of the breeders that my number one priority is a mentally and physically healthy dog that fits my lifestyle. I know that no matter how great of a trainer I am or how great the pedigree, not every dog I have is going to be as amazing as the one before or the one after. My own trainer has certainly had varying degrees of success with her dogs over the decades and she is open about sharing her difficult times as well as her triumphs, which humanizes her and helps us all understand that sometimes is works out great and sometimes it works out just OK. But, I'm going to try to stack the cards in my favor. 


I agree with you on perfect dogs.  I'm finally putting my Utility trained dog into the Novice ring this weekend.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Good luck this weekend - remember to have fun<:


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## FosterGolden (Mar 10, 2014)

hotel4dogs said:


> A key question is how far back in the pedigree are the influences in each case?



Stanley - Dad of litter
Rush Hill - Great-great grandfather of litter
Yogi - Grandfather of litter


Great question. Thanks!


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## FosterGolden (Mar 10, 2014)

Megora said:


> Good luck this weekend - remember to have fun<:



We will. Thanks!


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## Altairss (Sep 7, 2012)

I see a lot of the rush hill dogs around where I live. For me it would depend on which dog is the influence. Chaos was a pretty hard driving dog who loved a job others were more laid back. Most of those I have met have been very biddable.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

The Rush Hill is too far back to have much influence. Yogi, maybe. I'd go with the Stanley pup, at least you know the sire has produced lots of awesome pups.
JMO of course.




FosterGolden said:


> Stanley - Dad of litter
> Rush Hill - Great-great grandfather of litter
> Yogi - Grandfather of litter
> 
> ...


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I agree with Barb. Grandfathers and great-grandfathers really start to have limited influence unless they were bred to very similar working ability dogs.
For working ability ONLY, I would rank them Stanley>>>>>>Yogi>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rush Hill and I mean those carrots in proportion

I knew Yogi personally.
My first GOOD dog was a Yogi son. 
I knew lots of Yogi kids, and my dog's littermates, very well, very very well, and I now have two sons of Fisher (so, Yogi grandkids) and now a grandson. I am very very familiar with Yogi stuff. Like I said above, just having Yogi as a grandsire doesn't tell you much. If it's Yogi bred to something with no performance bred to something with no performance, you're probably not going to get very much of the Yogi performance. Yogi didn't have the biggest engine, he was unproven in the field, a lot of his kids were involved in performance and have big impressive titles more than the average sire, because like attracts like and people who wanted that good looking performance dog sought him out. What he really had in spades, and passed on, was an incredible character and personality, extreme trainability and biddability, that attitude of it didn't matter what dumb game the owner wanted to play, the dog is more than happy to comply and be a good training partner and competitor. I really got an enormous amount of focus from Fisher and his kids down from him, and a never-quit attitude. I guess Fisher liked field work best, but mainly because he loved birds. But he was equally happy doing obedience, tracking, showing in conformation, and I'm sure if I did agility he would have been all over that. Fisher produced multiple Champions, multiple OTCHs, multiple MACHs, multiple MHs, a TDX, two ** dogs, three Champion-Master Hunters, the #1 obedience dog in Canada all breeds, Canada's only CH-GMH-GMOTCH, multiple 200 dogs, multiple HIT dogs, multiple dogs BOB in the show ring. It really just was whatever the owner set out to do. 

I am familiar with a good number of Stanley kids through Ron with Turbo Goldens. He has bred and linebred on Stanley many times. Immensely talented dogs, big motors, just won't win you any beauty pageants.

I am geographically very far away from Rush Hill, so my exposure first hand is limited. We do have some dogs with Rush Hill up close in their pedigrees. As someone who wants high-end performance dogs as well as show dogs, this is not somewhere I would look for the performance end of things. Having said that, it's not easy to find a show type pedigree without Rush Hill, and again, if we're talking grandsires and great-grandsires, the influence will be really limited. 

Just to further drive home the point, Fisher's sire was Yogi. Fisher's mother was a UD AX AXJ and a very attractive bitch. Her sire was a CH-UD. Her mother was a UD and had four MH passes before she died of pyo. Her parents were MHs. No slouches in the performance department. My two Fisher sons continued that theme of all sides of the pedigree with proven performance. Slater's mother was a MH. Her parents were MHs. Their parents were MHs. Bally's mother was a CH-CDX-MH** who produced, to date, three CH-MHs, an OTCH, and various other titled dogs. It's not all Yogi making my Yogi grandkids what they are. 

Also...I occasionally hear rumors of the "bad stuff" to expect from Yogi pedigrees. Other than wide fronts and gay tails I have yet to consistently see problems, structure, temperament or otherwise. I would be very curious to hear what these rumors are, although maybe not...everything I have in Goldens was built on that dog and I have very little negative to report. (Getting clear eye exams is my only complaint...and I'm not blaming that on Yogi...Brix is my first golden to clear eyes with NO breeders options. OH! And ear hematomas --- ugggggggggg) 

Best of luck.


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## fourlakes (Feb 16, 2013)

I would just add to the discussion that, in my experience, no matter how awesome the mix of pedigrees there will be a variety of temperaments, abilities, dispositions in pups in a single litter. I have heard of people getting pups from outstanding performance breedings that did not pan out. Temperament testing, conformation assessment and good matches of pups with what new owners want is very important. And then there’s the question of who else is getting a pup from that litter and the breeder’s priorities about that. Just food for thought.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Yogi is in both of my dogs pedigrees. Great grand sire to both. I realize there probably isn’t a whole lot of Yogi left that far back. My girl is A decent obedience dog and she seems to be doing great at agility. My boy is still a puppy (11mos) but does very well at obedience for his age and has already earned his CGC, TKN, and URO1. I’m working on getting his achiever dog certificate.They both LOVE field work. Both great to live with.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Not that you asked but if I was looking right now in the PNW I would be looking at 2 litters. 

Zaniri's Juice X Hawk litter. I love, love, love, Juice. She is a lot of dog in a pretty package. I watched her mother Chica run HT at 10-11 years old and she was stomping them. I have trained with her sister Cozy who is a lights out marker. This is a strong bitch line. I probably would be asking some questions about Hawk to make sure I wasn't over dogged but I would be highly interested.

The other litter is https://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=814218.
I have watch Scrabble train, this guy has a big engine and a big computer. Pair that with an amazing trainer/owner and it makes for an exciting team. I also have seen/trained with 2 of Scrabbles sisters and I would love to have either one of them living in my house. Again this is the strong Zaniri working bitch line. Then you also get back to Yogi thru some talented dogs....Puzzle>Fisher>Yogi. 
I have met Teal and she is a lovely girl. I have watched her run Senior test and I know they hunt over Teal. I have witnessed her bombproof temperament and how amazing she is with Katie's son. I'm not as familiar with the bottom of Teal's pedigree other than she _is_ the daughter of the amazing Tito. I think these will be puppies who will be able to play whatever games you want at a high level. 

Between these two breedings I have a funny feeling I'm going to wish I had been ready for a puppy. I hope some of them stay in the area so I can watch them grow up.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

hollyk said:


> Not that you asked but if I was looking right now in the PNW I would be looking at 2 litters.
> 
> Zaniri's Juice X Hawk litter. I love, love, love, Juice. She is a lot of dog in a pretty package. I watched her mother Chica run HT at 10-11 years old and she was stomping them. I have trained with her sister Cozy who is a lights out marker. This is a strong bitch line. I probably would be asking some questions about Hawk to make sure I wasn't over dogged but I would be highly interested.
> 
> ...


Totally agree about the Teal x Scrabble litter. That breeding is going to produce some great dogs. I'm already regretting that I can't get a second - for this litter, and Jane's (Four Lakes) summer litter, too, from Teal's big sister.


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

hollyk said:


> The other litter is https://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=814218.
> 
> I want a puppy from this breeding so bad! Combines two of my favorite dogs (Fisher & Tito)! If it was a Bally x (Tito Daughter) nothing could stop me lol!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

You have received some really great feedback 

I would just like to further comment on a point that was touched upon.

Carefully consider the dam's lineage as well. A great dog bred to a dam who has proven abilities and/or siblings with proven abilities in the areas you are looking for excellence in will best tilt the chances of you getting the puppy/dog with the capabilities you want. A great sire bred to a dam without work drive, ethic & biddability might well disappoint you.

It is somewhat harder to gauge the dam given heats & pregnancies & puppy rearing taking time out of showing but her parentage & siblings can help you out there.




FosterGolden said:


> Looking at three litters. One is Rush Hill influences and one is Yogi influences. I know that a person has to look at the bigger picture. That said, I am hearing a lot of very strong opinions on both. So, just wondering what y'all think? And, how would you compare one of these guys to Stanley Steamer (I know, very different, but looking for opinions, thoughts to ponder, etc. on all three). Thank you!
> 
> 
> (P.S. Yes, I am looking for a performance dog for high level obedience, agility and hunt tests.)


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

myluckypenny said:


> hollyk said:
> 
> 
> > The other litter is https://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=814218.
> ...


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## Piper_the_goldenpuppy (Aug 26, 2016)

Oh my goodness all this talk is giving me puppy fever


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I admire Chaos very much- BIS BISS Am GCH Rush Hill Run'n Amuck at Abelard OA OAJ AXP AJP NFP WC VCX SDHF OS.

I plan to include him in my family of dogs when the time is right.

His daughter Sydney is lovely: MBIS MBISS AM/CAN GCHG CH Shadowland's Paws For Applause At Tristar CD RE SH SAR-W CGC WCX VCX SDHF MBISS MBVISS TDI

He lived to a nice old age and was a terrific companion and character .


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Should have mentioned (thought about it the other day) - but some of the non-yogi related local dogs that I really love and enjoy watching do have Rush Hill behind them ala Kirby showing up in the first 3 generations behind them. 

These are dogs who have gotten into the GRCA agility hall of fame, to give you an idea.... besides them being fun to watch in obedience. 

So there's that. Although I wouldn't sum up their talents and say it was all due to Kirby.


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## FosterGolden (Mar 10, 2014)

Thanks, everyone...lots of good info here!


I went to an obedience trial four hours up north (got our first Novice leg!) and, while I was excited to see some new teams compete, I hadn't even thought of the fact that there would be some potential baby mamas and daddies and other Golden people for me to ask 963 questions of. I also met HollyK from this board! We don't have as many Goldens in obedience where I am from. Herding dogs are more popular down here. 


I met a really nice conformation bred bitch who got her UDX this weekend. I enjoyed watching her work. She also has her SH. Really nice pedigree going back to Yogi. Her owner, the breeder, really likes the dad, who I don't know much about. His name is Tommy (Pedigree: CH Rumour's Just Kat'n Around CD SDHF OS). She is doing this breeding to get a new dog for herself for high level dog sports. 


I also saw Mickey (OTCH ORyan's Steamboat Willix UDX, BN, MX, MXJ) work in the ring, but I missed chatting much with his owner, other than she is super excited to breed him and get a puppy from the litter for herself. He's a nice worker. Really steady. He has an OTCH and still trials well. I do like this breeding (Pedigree: Kix x Mickey). 


Another thing that's important to me is to have a breeder that has produced and placed high performing dogs. I really need that knowledge and experience because I don't have it! Maybe someday I can look at a breeding and the puppies and know what I'm looking for, but not right now. Also, I want someone who understands what I have to offer, the type of training I prefer to do, and has a strong feeling that it will be a good match based on decades of placing the right puppy into the right home. Nothing is guaranteed, but want to do all I can to ensure a good fit for us both.


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## Altairss (Sep 7, 2012)

Looks like a great breeding for Kix x Mickey. Did you come up for the Washington State Obedience Training Club show in Mt Vernon? I just missed entries for this show otherwise I would have been there. Congratulations on the Novice Leg.


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## FosterGolden (Mar 10, 2014)

Altairss said:


> Looks like a great breeding for Kix x Mickey. Did you come up for the Washington State Obedience Training Club show in Mt Vernon? I just missed entries for this show otherwise I would have been there. Congratulations on the Novice Leg.



Thanks! And yes, I did. I think I might make this an annual trial as much as I can. I loved the venue and the good vibes plus it's nice to watch some different dog/handler teams from time to time!


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## Altairss (Sep 7, 2012)

I hope to get to that one next year too. In may is the Northwest cluster held in Lynden WA just about another 40 minutes further north of Mt Vernon. 4 shows Friday thru Monday entries on BaRay. Its at the fairgrounds and the arena is fantastic to show in. Its a horse arena but they have always done nice ring prep the arena is big so very rooming all enclosed and climate controlled, they have a place to eat right on the grounds or quite a few nearby places to eat. RV parking on grounds or some close hotels. There is also a confirmation show going on (in another arena) at the same time. They have both Obedience and Rally and everyone has been super friendly at this show. Lots of nice teams to watch at this show.


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## FosterGolden (Mar 10, 2014)

Altairss said:


> I hope to get to that one next year too. In may is the Northwest cluster held in Lynden WA just about another 40 minutes further north of Mt Vernon. 4 shows Friday thru Monday entries on BaRay. Its at the fairgrounds and the arena is fantastic to show in. Its a horse arena but they have always done nice ring prep the arena is big so very rooming all enclosed and climate controlled, they have a place to eat right on the grounds or quite a few nearby places to eat. RV parking on grounds or some close hotels. There is also a confirmation show going on (in another arena) at the same time. They have both Obedience and Rally and everyone has been super friendly at this show. Lots of nice teams to watch at this show.



Sounds like a great show! I might have to see if I have time for a little road trip.


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## jeb7 (Apr 4, 2018)

I have had 3 Rush Hill dogs, 2 out of Haagen Das. They all died very young of cancer. Two at age 8 and the last developed histiosarcoma in her front leg at age 4. She died last September. They are sweet wonderful dogs but have serious oncogenes. I can't handle losing any more dogs so young.


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