# 1st time puppy owner in need of bed time advice



## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

When Gilmour was 11 weeks old, his nighttime limit was around 3 hours which, coincidentally, was about my limit (getting old sucks LOL) so it worked out perfect for us.

I personally don't use crates, but I do use controlled movement (gated in the bedroom at night, etc... but I have a dog door that goes into a good sized kennel, which makes all of this so much easier. Once he learned the dog door (around 12 weeks) he pretty much took care of himself.


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## PowderPuff791 (Mar 12, 2009)

Our trainer told us that they can only one it "one hour more than the number of months they are". For example - 12 weeks old = 3 months, they can only hold for 4 hours.

I'm sure more people will give lots of advice - good luck!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Hi Tanya, well you are right that you need to stop "trying to make him feel safer" by hovering around the crate. That makes for needy dogs. You already know he is OK in the crate so there's no need for this. Keep a tupperware container with small dog cookies near his crate, he gets one each time for going in (throw the cookie in so he goes in after it), tell him "kennel" (or "go crate" or "load" or whatever), shut the door, "Goodnight puppy" and walk off. HE WILL NOT BE PLEASED WITH THIS AT FIRST. Expect whining and carrying on but please remember, you had a little hand in creating this, and in 20 minutes or less, he will stop. That 20 minutes is a lot easier to put up with, than 20 minutes at 4 am. 
Anyways, at this age you should expect to wake up once through the night at 2-3 am. Any more than that and he is bored and just wants out. If he wakes you up again at 4-5, don't let him out and see what happens. If he goes in the crate then you know it's legit and you've got a few more weeks of taking him out twice a night, if not, then you know he's fibbing 
Another tip -- bring the crate in your bedroom. Puppies will sleep and settle easier if they are allowed to sleep with their "pack." 
Best of luck!


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## Leia (Oct 26, 2008)

Is he on a timed eating schedule or do you free feed? If you put him on a timed schedule it will be easier for the pooping. My vet told me not give mine water about two hours before I was planning on going to bed. Take him out right before bed time. 
For the night crate training. You should pick a word like "bedtime" and get him to go in the crate to whatever word you pick. Don't sit with him, just shut the door and walk away. He will probably bark and whine but he will stop. He needs to learn to be comfortable and fall alseep on his own. It will be hard but he will get the idea. Mine barked for about 20 minutes and gave up. Use the same word each time you put him in the crate at night and eventually he'll get the idea.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

I would also suggest crating during the day...even if it is just for an hour or two, here and there.


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## Tanyac (Jun 18, 2008)

Unfortunately since you've had your pup since the 15th he's had plenty of time to get used to the routine you've set up for him, i.e. sit with him until he falls asleep. Your pup will probably take longer to break of this habit, but it can be done.

I haven't crate trained mine but have had them contained in one room, with puppy wee mats near the back door. You can expect that the pup will protest for quite some time, its up to you whether you go and comfort him, but don't make too much fuss, let him go out to toilet and then straight back into bed. Don't turn all the lights on, make drinks, any unnecessary noise as this will make the pup think its alright to be 'up', i.e. not in bed.

I trained my babies to go through the night in the same way... worked for both, lol!!

Another tip, is to put into his bed an old jumper you have been wearing, and pop something like a wheatbag you heat up in the microwave underneath the bedding for him to cuddle into, oh and a cuddly toy works a treat. If all else fails, try turning your radio on low, have it tuned into a chat channel, as the sound of voices will make him feel he's not totally alone and will help him to relax.

I know its hard to ignore the cries of your beloved pup, but unless you really want a rod for your own back, you'll have to go through this sooner or later.

Good luck, let us know how it went.

(Another) Tanya


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## tatonka3a2 (May 25, 2009)

Thanks for all the quick replies. I have weaned him a bit of the petting and soothing - the last few nights after coming inside from our bathroom trip I put him right in the crate and say "lay down" and then just sit there with the gate door closed. I know he knows what he is suppose to do because he looks at me and then lays his head down and whines and pouts. The thing about him whining is that he doesn't just whine - he whines for about 10 mins and then turns into a bark...well my thoughts are the longer he barks the more worked up he is getting and that much harder it will be for him to fall asleep. 

It seems like he doesn't give into the barking either. We put up an outside kennel for him and he hates it (well hates it when no one else is out there that he can see, otherwise he is fine) - he will bark for 30 to 40 mins. I haven't been able to stand more than 45 mins, so I dont know if he would give up. And when outside and he is barking like that he seems to get upset and has too poop no matter when he did it last. I hate to have him poop in his kennel at night and be standing in it. :doh: That would not be fun to clean up at 4am! LOL.

So the majority think I should move the kennel into our bedroom and see how that goes? That was my cats "safe haven". Do you suppose he will bark everytime he sees them walk by in the middle of the night...he should be sleeping. 

Have I turned him into a big mommas baby?? He was meant to be a family memeber/pet first and then a "helper" with my husband at pheasant hunting. 

I guess I should be at least thankful that he is catching on to the potty training at least....

Tyring to get him into a puppy kindergaten class too but nothing is going on until July 2nd at the earliest and the one I really want to take him too doesn't have classes until Aug 19th. 

Thanks again!!
Tanya


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## Maya's Mom (Apr 13, 2009)

My puppy is just about exactly the same age (born 3/11). When she first came home, we got up with her every 3 hours, but we have gradually extended it so now we are only getting up once in the night with her. She is able to go about 5 or 5 1/2 hours now overnight. We're hoping to fade out getting up in the night with her in the next two weeks. At puppy kindergarten (at a very reputable place - not Petco or Petsmart) last week I asked the trainer how much we could extend it. I told her (and her assistant who had a German Shepard the same age) we were getting up every 4 hours at the time. They both though that was not necessary. The German Shepard owner said that at 10 weeks her pups go at least 6 hours overnight. We give our pup her last water at 7:30 (or 8:00 if she has been running a lot and is really thirsty). Usually we take her out sometime around 10 or 11 before bed, then get up with her once and wake up around 7ish (depending on the day it is earlier or later). She has never had an accident in her crate. She sleeps in her crate which is up against our bed so if she needs to go out she whines and we get up. With our pup we can tell the difference between the bored wanting to play whining and the insistent have to go out whining. She whines much more when she really has to go and will stand up on her hind legs, wheras the bored whining is more like just a little whimpering. Obviously every pup is different though. If I were you I would really pay attention to the whining and her behavior to see if you can tell any differences between being bored and having to go out. I would definitely stongly reccomend against putting his crate in the garage or away from you. That is likely to make him hate the crate and make this transition harder for him. The best place is in your bedroom. You should get tough and let him out less, but separating him from you will make things much worse. He will be much more agitated far away from you. You might want to use some earplugs the first few night though! Also, make sure that the crate is not too big for him. if you have a divider in it that will make it less likely that he will have an accident in the crate. Also, extend the time gradually rather than all at once. If he is used to going out every couple hours then doubling that will be really hard for him. Maybe extend it a 1/2 hour a night, seeing how it goes as you do. Also, make sure he has toys he likes in the crate to comfort and entertain himself. Sorry to go on and on, it's just the same kind of thing we've been working on!


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## tatonka3a2 (May 25, 2009)

We tried to get off cheap on the crate and bought one that will fit him when he is fully grown. It is a plastic one that doesn't have dividers. What would you put in there to divide it off? Do you make it shorter too for him by putting something on the floor? Or do I go out and buy another crate? We are far from rolling in the cash so I hate to buy more stuff....but if I need too, that is what I will do.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Oh yeah -- first off you are setting him up for failure by not only coddling him when you are there but then TOTALLY isolating him when you aren't there. Hovering over the crate or really even talking to them while they are in the crate drives them crazy. However isolating him from you totally (i.e. crate in the basement or outside kennel) for an 11 week old puppy can be terrifying. 
No more sitting by the crate. Put the crate in your bedroom. No, he will not bark at the cats. If the cats are smart they will go elsewhere. You can't separate the cats and dog for the next 10+ years so both parties might as well get used to it now. 

<<well my thoughts are the longer he barks the more worked up he is getting and that much harder it will be for him to fall asleep.>>

Wrong. Barking and carrying on actually wears them out. If you let him carry on and THEN go "Free" him -- YOU ARE TEACHING HIM TO CARRY ON EVEN LONGER. He learns that if he KEEPS barking you will eventually let him out. That's even worse then letting him out after one minute of whining. You need to toughen up and realize that if he learns by himself that barking doesn't get him anywhere, he will stop. On the flipside, put him in your bedroom so he knows he is still with his pack. There is tough love, and there is isolation, one is good for puppies the other not.
The first few nights with your new regime will be tough but it's the best in the long run.


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## tatonka3a2 (May 25, 2009)

Thanks for the tough love advice. I will move the kennel in the bedroom tonight...has to go better than it has been. 

I moved him into the kennel right now since he was sleeping outside of it. I shut the gate and didn't say a word - he lays down with no whining during the day. 

So when do I "free" him from the outside kennel during the day, not until after he is done barking... i guess he can go on until whenever, we have no neighbors to complain. I only put him out there because he wants to play and I have to get back to work. He has room too - it is slightly bigger than 10x10 feet square and has toys and water out there. 

He is on a feeding schedule. 3 times a day - 7am, 2pm, and then 7pm. I was told to switch to twice a day at 12 weeks. Should I switch his scedule so he is done eating even earlier than 7pm?

As far as the barking goes my husband wants to get a bark collar but I am on the other side of the fence on these. I know there is ones out there that dont "shock" them but rather spray something in the air that is suppose to make them stop...what are your thoughts on this? I would like him to bark at times - when he has to go out - when someone pulls up in the driveway (we live in the country and that would be a nice alarm system) - warn off deer or varmits in the yard, ect. So I don't want him not to bark.... 

Man, I guess I have lots of questions!! I am so glad I found this forum. You guys are great!!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

A bark collar right now is totally out of the question for a puppy. You are isolating him, he is lonely and scared so he barks out in the kennel. I personally feel that an outdoor kennel is inappropriate for a puppy that age. It's your job as a puppy owner to both provide him with playtime activities and train him to play by himself if you are busy.
Order a GREAT book called "After you get your Puppy" by Ian Dunbar. He shows you how to set up puppy play areas that are safe and mentally stimulating for the puppy. Learn the art of stuffing chew toys with food so your puppy can entertain himself if you are busy. That is a wholly more appropriate thing to do with a puppy his age than putting him out in a kennel. As you can tell, he does zero playing by himself out there, he instead spends all his energy trying to get out of his isolation zone. When he is stable and does not carry on when left in the crate or babygated in the house (ie. in a bathroom, in the kitchen, in the laundry room) you can move him to spending some time in the kennel. I would also question when you plan on using the kennel when he grows up. Is he going to live out there?


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## Luci (May 26, 2009)

I second the Ian Dunbar book! I've read it once and am in the process of reading it again. Easy to read, entertaining and easy to understand. 

Most Chapters have them in stock. It's called "before and after getting your puppy"


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## tatonka3a2 (May 25, 2009)

Heavens no, he won’t live out there, just want a safe place for him to be outside when it is nice out and we can't be there to watch over him. 

We have an attached garage that will have a dog door in it leading outside to the kennel and then leading into the house as well. He will have free reign over the kingdom so to speak, once he is house trained completely. 

I was thinking the kennel would be a good thing since he loves being outside. He plays by himself or with the cat out there if I am standing there, but as soon as I leave or when he realizes I have left that is when he starts barking. 

I am online looking at the book now...thanks for the advice. I will be getting it.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

<<I was thinking the kennel would be a good thing since he loves being outside. He plays by himself or with the cat out there if I am standing there, but as soon as I leave or when he realizes I have left that is when he starts barking.>>

That's a golden retriever for you. They don't want to be alone and rarely go "play by themselves" with nobody there to supervise! They are a very dependent breed. Get used to being followed, even into the bathroom! I can't even put my golden out in the backyard by himself in the morning, he will stand at the back door and wait for me to come out there with him. If I don't see him in my immediate vicinity I can assume he's accidentally closed a door and locked himself in a room. They will never choose to be by themselves!


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## Kzwicker (Aug 14, 2007)

We had the same start with Murphy too. I had him in a large crate that he could grow into, and in the back of the crate I put a big pillow and blankets in the front. He never had an accident in his crate that way. He actually liked to sleep on the pillow. My boyfriend did the same thing as you, he slept infront of the crate for a few nights, but then we stoped that. We had the crate in our bedroom and just let him cry for a little while. I am totally with you on being tired. Its hard work having a puppy! I think if you can have the crate in your bedroom and tell him that its time for bed (I used to pick Murphy up and rub his back and tell him it was time for nigh nights  then just go lay in your bed and let him cry it out. It may take a few minutes, but at least he knows you are there. It will get better you just have to give it some time. I never had Murphy in a crate durring the day, but just at night and he slept in there until he didnt fit anymore :doh: That's all the advise I have.. Welcome by the way! And we would love to see pictures of you little guy if your not too sleepy to take a few


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## tatonka3a2 (May 25, 2009)

I am a little unsure about putting a pillow in there he doesn't seem to like the sun or warm spots to lay on. I had a huge blanket in there and he didn't seem comfortable. I took that out and put a smaller thinner one in there and he seems to move that out of the way and lay mostly on the bare plastic floor. My husband found online some cooling pillows - I may have to try those for him once summer hits - although we are only in North Dakota....summer only happens a few days out of the year here. :


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## tatonka3a2 (May 25, 2009)

I would like to thank everyone for the advice yesterday and start off by saying that is the MOST sleep I have gotten since we brought Ruger home on the 15th!! 

I moved his kennel into our bedroom last night and when I was ready to go to bed I moved him from my feet to the "new spot" and he walked in and laid down. I just said, lay daown Ruger, its night time and of course he whined a little but he did lay down pretty much right away and went to sleep. He stayed there until about 1am when he needed out - I left the cats water down and he got into that before I could catch him. But then he slept till 5:15am when he was ready to go out again. Then came back in and slept again until about 6:15am when he heard my husband making noise. I believe he whined a little in between 1 and 5, but I can't be for sure if I was dreaming it or just thinking that he may have...too tired to recall for sure. But no accidents in the kennel either - I didn't make it smaller as I was afraid doing so would make it warmer in there as well. 


Now my next fear is that I have to make a road trip and be gone for 2 days and my husband works 10hr shifts (leaves by 6:30am and isn't home until 6:30pm. Not sure how we are going to handle this. We live in the country and dont really have any neighbors that could let him out during the day. 

Again a BIG THANK YOU everyone on the advice yesterday...hope it wasn't just luck! We will see for sure tonight.


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## slip_kid (May 12, 2009)

question for everyone... new user here, picking up our puppy in two weeks. It seems EVERYONE keeps the puppy and crate in the bedroom. Do you ever eventually move him to a new location? We would prefer to have him camped in the kitchen which is high traffic when we are both home, was hoping that some light music, blanket with scent and a warm water bottle would be enough. I will be able to hear him from our room on the second floor if he needs to go out. I'm a notoriously light sleeper.

That's another reason we don't want to rely on him being in the bedroom, it's on the second floor and we don't want to have him rely on us carrying him and and down the stairs until his joints are stronger.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Regarding the water bottle, ticking alarm clock, radio, shirt with your scent, etc -- none of that works to calm the puppy down. However, if you ALWAYS put that with them when they are put to bed, it becomes a conditioned response. Oh, the alarm clock is ticking, that means bedtime. Oh, the radio, that means nobody will save me if I bark so might as well settle down. They will adjust just as well if not better to a firm owner and a good schedule


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## Tanyac (Jun 18, 2008)

K9-Design said:


> Regarding the water bottle, ticking alarm clock, radio, shirt with your scent, etc -- none of that works to calm the puppy down. However, if you ALWAYS put that with them when they are put to bed, it becomes a conditioned response. Oh, the alarm clock is ticking, that means bedtime. Oh, the radio, that means nobody will save me if I bark so might as well settle down. They will adjust just as well if not better to a firm owner and a good schedule


I would beg to differ...

None of my dogs have ever slept in the bedroom with us, they have always had their beds in the kitchen, and that is where they sleep. I have always tried to make them comfortable with things like hot water bottles, cuddly toy, radio on low etc, and all my dogs as pups learned to settle themselves within a very short time.

I've had success with the way we've managed this and would always do the same with future puppies.


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## Alohaimee (Feb 15, 2009)

I start my dogs off in the bedroom, but once they feel safe in the crate I move them to the stairs. Leonidas was like 15 or 16 weeks when I took the crate out of the bedroom, and Maximus was 12 weeks. They dont have a clock or blankets or spray... they just have their beds. They do like to sleep in there often, even when I don't tell them to go to the crate...

Also, Maximus used to bark at the door when he couldn't see me and I got advice here and it works great!! All I did was put him out and told him "shhhh". I would close the door and if he barked I would ignore it. I sat in the other room where he couldn't see me and just waited. The SECOND he stops barking I open the door and told him good quiet (made it a big deal) and let him in. 10 minutes later I put him back out and repeated the process. After about 2 hours, he got it. He will now go do his potties, sniff the yard or whatever he does out there, and then sit at the door silently and wait for me to let him in.  By letting him in when he barked I was training him to bark at the door. I didn't even realize I was doing it until a member here pointed it out to me! Hope that helps!


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## tatonka3a2 (May 25, 2009)

Here are a few pictures of Ruger.


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## Catalina (Jan 14, 2009)

What a cute puppy! Enjoy him!


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## tatonka3a2 (May 25, 2009)

It wasn't just a fluke the other night.... Ruger even slept better last night. 

We played like crazy until bedtime, we calmed down and then I put him in the kennel - he didn't say a peep!! Laid right down and didn't say a word until 7am!! OMG I couldn't believe it. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! :wave:


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

slip_kid said:


> question for everyone... new user here, picking up our puppy in two weeks. It seems EVERYONE keeps the puppy and crate in the bedroom. Do you ever eventually move him to a new location? We would prefer to have him camped in the kitchen which is high traffic when we are both home, was hoping that some light music, blanket with scent and a warm water bottle would be enough. I will be able to hear him from our room on the second floor if he needs to go out. I'm a notoriously light sleeper.
> 
> That's another reason we don't want to rely on him being in the bedroom, it's on the second floor and we don't want to have him rely on us carrying him and and down the stairs until his joints are stronger.


You might want to create a new thread for this, but I'll take a stab at it here. Lots of people keep the crate in the kitchen. The adjustment can be tough for the pup at first, since it goes from a litter full of family members to a place that's completely alone, but if you spend time in the kitchen, in and around the crate with the pup, playing games and giving treats to him when he goes in, he should take to it pretty well.


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## slip_kid (May 12, 2009)

tippykayak said:


> You might want to create a new thread for this, but I'll take a stab at it here. Lots of people keep the crate in the kitchen. The adjustment can be tough for the pup at first, since it goes from a litter full of family members to a place that's completely alone, but if you spend time in the kitchen, in and around the crate with the pup, playing games and giving treats to him when he goes in, he should take to it pretty well.


Thanks!

Just glad to hear that there are folks doing the kitchen thng also. Every book/mag/and most posts have them crated in the bedrooms.

I'm sure we'll be posting how our first weekend went. 

June 13th. PUMPED!


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## TobysDad (Apr 7, 2009)

*Family room for us*

We started with our little guy in the bedroom, but I am a light sleeper and every time he moved or whined a little, I woke up. We moved him downstairs for my sanity and he sleeps from about 10pm to about 6am. 

The downside of keeping him downstairs is that we might not hear him if he really has a problem or has to poop. In the three months that we've had him, he has had diarrhea twice and gone both times in the crate. Then he typically howls until we rescue him, but it means a shower for the dog either in the middle of the night or first thing in the morning. Kind of ruins the day....


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## Kzwicker (Aug 14, 2007)

tatonka3a2 said:


> It wasn't just a fluke the other night.... Ruger even slept better last night.
> 
> We played like crazy until bedtime, we calmed down and then I put him in the kennel - he didn't say a peep!! Laid right down and didn't say a word until 7am!! OMG I couldn't believe it. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! :wave:


Thats great! See it does get better!! Very cute pictures by the way.. He is one handsome pup


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## Maya's Mom (Apr 13, 2009)

I'm so glad to hear that things are going better! It really does seem to help them to know you're nearby. And it makes such a difference for everyone to get sleep! you can enjoy your puppy more when you're not exhausted and resenting the sleep deprivation. You were probably right to not use the pillow if your pup tends to get hot. I had a bed in our crate for our pup when she first came home, but she didn't like it. She kept trying to push it away. I finally decided to take it out when I came into the bedroom and saw she was sleeping underneath it! She likes the cool plastic surface of the crate better than the warm bed. She pants less and settles down faster in her crate. It looks uncomfortable to me, but she really likes it better with no bedding, plus I don't have to worry about her eating any pillow stuffing or shredding and eating a blanket. Your puppy is adorable!


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## Patsy's Parents (Aug 8, 2007)

Going to go out on a limb here, and hopefully not incur the wrath of those who may know better than us.

We brought home Kelby, our new 9 week old Irish Setter to be a 'sister' for Patsy a week ago. My wife, who has raised a number of dogs before, said that from night one Kelby would be on our bed. Patsy sleeps on our bed from about 2AM on, when she comes up from the cool kitchen tile. So what's one more among the pack??

Kelby sleeps straight through from 10 pm to 6 AM, when we hop up and carry her outside. She goes straight away, but does not go at all through the night. My wife has done the same for a number of other dogs, and it seems to work.


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