# King Charles Cavalier or Beagle?



## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

We have a 20 month old golden girl. She has a good amount of energy...typical golden, and very good with other dogs and kids. I'd like a second dog... my wife wants a smaller breed, so we're probably not going to get another golden for now.

We have 2 kids (5 and 7), so we're thinking we'd want an adult dog, but we just can't decide which is the right option.

We are up in the air between a King Charles Cavalier spaniel or a beagle.

We're nervous about a King Charles because of health issues and overall being too small and fragile of a breed. We're nervous about a beagle because of barking, digging, and running away.

Does anyone have opinions or insights? Thanks


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I really like the CKC spaniels, but the health issues do concern me. Beagles have never attracted me. I think Beagle and I think bugling and running 

What about an English Cocker, or a Corgi? I know Ella would like a Corgi 

I have always found my Goldens to be very good with small dogs, and so far the small dogs have always bossed the big dogs around!

Ella will love company, I am sure!


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## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

Tahnee GR said:


> I really like the CKC spaniels, but the health issues do concern me. Beagles have never attracted me. I think Beagle and I think bugling and running
> 
> What about an English Cocker, or a Corgi? I know Ella would like a Corgi
> 
> ...


 Steph's mom recently came to visit, and brought along her senior cairn terrier. Ella was so remarkably good with her (as she always is with all small dogs), and we are always so intrigued at how much other dogs wear her out...we just don't wear her out like that, even when we go on long walks and play a lot.

I met a couple really nice English cocker spaniels about a year ago, but Steph isn't a fan of the breed. I've considered corgis...I'd worry about a dog being too inclined to herd up the kids 

I've had an e-mail conversation with a beagle breeder in southern WI who has an ex-show boy who apparently isn't a barker. I've always had a soft spot for CKCSs, though. They've always been my 2nd favorite breed...


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

The CKC are supposed to have a very Golden temperament. The Beagle sounds like a good option, especially if he isn't a big yodeler. I took care of a Beagle for a while years ago, show bred, and he really was wonderful. The Goldens and I had a ball with him. Of course, I had a huge fencd in yard for them to run in.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

I dont know either breed personally, just have heard the thing about beagles wanting to roam. The KCcav sure looks like a cute dog (im not really a small dog person either)


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## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

lgnutah said:


> I dont know either breed personally, just have heard the thing about beagles wanting to roam. The KCcav sure looks like a cute dog (im not really a small dog person either)


 We've got a decent area in the yard that's fenced, and I'm really concerned about a 15" dog with a propensity to dig getting out of there. Of course, finding a beagle is a bit easier than finding a Cavalier spaniel, especially in my neck of the woods (NW WI).


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

Beagles are sometimes hard to train (too many smells in the world) and many of the ones that I have met run and don't return easily. KCS are very sweet and a little slow to learn as I understand. I'm fond of all the ones that I have met though.


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## Wrigleysmom (Dec 30, 2006)

I would say the spaniel. The personality will go better with your Goldie!


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## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

Wrigleysmom said:


> I would say the spaniel. The personality will go better with your Goldie!


 One of my concerns is that the king Charles cavalier might not be as playful as a beagle. If the cavalier only wants to sit around and be a lap dog, then it's not going to be a good playmate for our golden. They just seem a little more fragile than the beagle


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

One of our neighbors has 3 CKCs and they are very cool dogs. CKC would be my pick for a smaller dog. My sister-in-law had a Beagle, he was a nice dog but difficult to walk since his nose was always to the ground and would run off if given the chance.


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## BriGuy (Aug 31, 2010)

I would probably make a deal with my wife to enable me to get another golden.  We have a King Charles Cavalier next door, and while it is a very happy dog in general, it is also very barky, was hard to house train, and nowhere near as biddable as a golden. It is the only one I know personally, so maybe they aren't all like that. :crossfing 

Beagles are cute, but the howling would drive me nuts.

I'd go with a smaller golden, but that's just me.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

My Dad had a beagle years ago. He was the fishing dog. Whenever we got the boat out on the trailer to take down to the river he would go crazy. We would take him with us and he had the best time. Every fish was his. My Dad lived down the way from you in Watertown. We fished the Rock River a lot. At home the beagle was jealous of anyone petting the cat. When you paid too much attention to the cat, suddenly the beagle would start limping and looking like he was in pain. So you would set down the cat and go see what was wrong with the beagle. Of course nothing was wrong he was just playing you. The beagle was not a run away, but many are. I have a neighbor that hunts and breeds beagles. He will not sell to a pet home, only hunting homes. Depends a lot on the breeding. My Dad's beagle came from the pound, so no telling what the breeding was.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

You know, if I just wanted a pet and could do a pet cut, I would get a Havanese in a New York minute  I think they are adorable and I know several Golden breeders with Havanese and they all seem to meld very nicely together. Jane Docter takes her out to the woods and ponds with the Goldens and they have a ball!


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

I'd go with a beagle if it weren't for the fact that the bark of a hound dog drives me nuts. Feel free to throw tomatoes at me, but CKCs just strike me as frou frou dogs. JRTs are pretty cool dogs, I think, if trained properly (my parents have 4 that are not at all trained properly and they grate on my nerves). I like the suggestion for a smaller Golden!


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## Jake's Crew (Jul 22, 2013)

My previous dog, Harry, was a Cavalier King Charles spaniel. Harry died in February at age 8 after being in palliative care for 1.5 years. He had liver disease, heart problems and towards the end he had cancer. Harry was an awesome dog and it killed me when he died. He was a larger Cavalier at about 25lbs. He was so sweet and loving, very smart and funny.. He could easily walk for an hour at a time, but if it was cold and snowy here north of Toronto he was happy with a walk around the block. He loved goldens! 

My mom has 4 cavaliers, my sister has 2 and when it came time to get another dog, as much as I loved the breed and think they have fabulous personalities, there would have been no way I would have gotten another Cavalier. (I now have a 7 month old Golden puppy, Jake.) As a breed Cavaliers have very serious health concerns. When I got Harry I knew about their problems with heart murmurs but the real issue now is syringomyelia (SM). Testing for it is very costly and not something many breeders do. One of my mom's Cavaliers who is only 2 has started to develop symptoms of SM. All of our dogs are from well respected, careful and responsible breeders.

So far I have found that Cavaliers and Goldens have very similar personalities, but from what I've seen from my mom's and sister's cavaliers and Harry, they are way easier to deal with as puppies than Goldens!!! 

It is a real shame what is happening to the Cavalier breed because they are such fantastic dogs but I would think very very carefully before adding one to the family. 

I have met a few Havanese dogs and they are really great small dogs. I believe they are long lived, very funny and smart. A friend of mine has a Golden and a Havanese and the two are best friends!


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

We have a CKC "niece" she loves to fetch corks, and cuddle, and go for walks in the rain. Kind of like a little golden!


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## Sable (Aug 22, 2012)

I have always wanted a cavalier but the health problems in the breed makes me hesitate they are very much like a golden a little calmer when young (my friend has 3)
My son wants a beagle but hounds are not the breed for me the howl and not listening when they catch a smell every 5 seconds lol but very cuts dogs 
I would get a cavalier before getting a beagle 
cavs are wonderful dogs just wish they were healthier 


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

When you see my signature you'll know what I would recommend! The temperament of the Cav is very hard to beat... They really are similar to Goldies, just a bit calmer and in a compact body. You are right to be concerned with the health issues. Well bred ones are not easy to come by, and it's not that easy to obtain an adult from a breeder or a rescue. But your kids would love the dog, and a Cav with a true Cav temperament would love the kids.

I'm not sure a beagle would be my next choice though. Very bark-y, although a lot of fun. How about another spaniel--one of the smaller breeds? They are available through rescues and the spaniel temperament usually works very well in a busy household with kids and other dogs. 

Good luck! If you want some contacts in the Cav universe, please let me know.


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## Melfice (Aug 4, 2012)

I think you should look into a Brittany! They are great companions for a golden and sweet dogs. Rusty is my golden and I got him a friend in July. Kerrie Ann is my Brittany and they love each other, and play rough together which Rusty loves to do.

There is a size difference of 30 to 40 pounds depends on your golden. Brittanys range from 30 to 40 pounds, and are a medium sized breed. I think they would be a perfect fit for your golden


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Jake's Crew said:


> My previous dog, Harry, was a Cavalier King Charles spaniel. Harry died in February at age 8 after being in palliative care for 1.5 years. He had liver disease, heart problems and towards the end he had cancer. Harry was an awesome dog and it killed me when he died. He was a larger Cavalier at about 25lbs. He was so sweet and loving, very smart and funny.. He could easily walk for an hour at a time, but if it was cold and snowy here north of Toronto he was happy with a walk around the block. He loved goldens!
> 
> My mom has 4 cavaliers, my sister has 2 and when it came time to get another dog, as much as I loved the breed and think they have fabulous personalities, there would have been no way I would have gotten another Cavalier. (I now have a 7 month old Golden puppy, Jake.) As a breed Cavaliers have very serious health concerns. When I got Harry I knew about their problems with heart murmurs but the real issue now is syringomyelia (SM). Testing for it is very costly and not something many breeders do. One of my mom's Cavaliers who is only 2 has started to develop symptoms of SM. All of our dogs are from well respected, careful and responsible breeders.
> 
> ...


It _is _a shame, all the health problems, but there are many people working to solve the health issues. The big obstacle is the very small gene pool and people's reluctance to do out-breeding to introduce new genes. But I have to say, I would love to have a brace of them in my home, and perhaps in my old age I will! They have the sweetest temperament of any dog I've ever met, Goldens included. They are good with all ages, especially patient with grabby little kids, and a lot of fun. My Tess has the most prey drive and the best nose of my three dogs, and that's saying a lot. She's a true spaniel and demonstrates her hunting ancestry every day keeping the backyard free of squirrel invasions. She's not doing so well right now, health-wise, and maybe in a few months I'll be tapped out emotionally. But I feel like no dog is with us long enough...they're just too short lived, and I wouldn't want to have missed the experience of having a Cav for anything. 

I'm so sorry you lost your Harry... It's just very difficult all around when they get sick. I think I'm rambling...so I'll stop.


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## Kally76 (Jun 14, 2010)

I owned a beagle at one time. I hope to never have another one. It was a sweet dog but it was almost completely impossible to train. If you go with a Beagle be prepared for things such as these:

1. Non-stop continuous barking and baying.
2. Constant digging. It is almost impossible to keep them in the yard.
3. They can be very destructive. Mine ate the seat off of my 4-wheeler.
4. They are hunters. You will see lots of dead chipmunks, birds, frogs, and squirrels
lying around.
5. When they get a scent in their nose trying to get their mind off of it is impossible.
6. Potty training took months.

Not trying to discourage you, I just wanted you to know they can be a handful.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I love beagles.  

I still hope someday to have one of my own, but I do recognize they are not for everyone. 

Prior to bringing Bertie home, I looked into English Springer Spaniels - and even was on a puppy list for one. This was from a breeder who does both conformation and obedience with her dogs. I met one at a trial and was all shiny eyed watching that dog get her CDX minutes after she spent a couple hours sleeping like a black and white puddle in her mom's lap. 

Cocker Spaniels are wonderful too. There is one in our Monday class who has a lot of training ahead of her, but she is a wonderful little dog. Her sweet little heart is in her eyes as she looks up at her mom while heeling. 

Cavaliers are sweet, but they are very small and as far from what is golden retrievers as you can get.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Tahnee GR said:


> You know, if I just wanted a pet and could do a pet cut, I would get a Havanese in a New York minute


I soooo agree with this! Every single Havanese I've had the pleasure of meeting has been sweet, friendly and absolute angels while being groomed. All the groomers I've known, in shops that I've worked in, love the breed. And that says _a lot_, because they deal with them all the time in a situation, (grooming them), that most dogs, at best, just tolerate.

Out of the two breeds you mentioned, I'd go with a Cavalier. But only a very, _very_ well bred one...


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## Jake's Crew (Jul 22, 2013)

> I'm so sorry you lost your Harry... It's just very difficult all around when they get sick. I think I'm rambling...so I'll stop.


Thanks ... it's true - it's gut wrenching to watch your dog deteriorate week by week and watch them die. But if someone had said to me when we first added Harry to the family that he would die at 8 after a lengthy illness I would have still gotten him. He was so devoted to the family and would even follow me into the bathroom and wait until I got out of the shower and lick my toes! When my son broke his ankle Harry didn't leave his side for days .... now I'm rambling and in tears .... I still miss my dog ....


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## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

Wow! Thanks everyone for all the input. It seems like the majority here would favor a King Charles over a beagle. I'm still up in the air, mostly because there seems to be a lot more beagles available than CKCSs. The havanese intrigues me...I guess I don't know a lot about them.

I'm probably over-cautious because we've had a situation in the past where we adopted a dog, and it didn't work out for a variety of reasons - mostly because of aggression towards strangers and kids, and I NEVER want to have that happen again.

There seems like there's more reasons to shy away from beagles than some other breeds. It might be back to the drawing board...


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## booklady (Mar 3, 2009)

Sorry I'm late to the discussion because I'm a quite recent convert to the CKC camp.

I need to start by saying that I've never had a small breed before and had never even contemplated having one. This summer I had two bonded senior goldens go to the bridge and it broke my heart, as it did my Rottweiler mix's. Neither of us were ready, but we got a call from a friend in rescue..........a Cav needed a home. She was a six year old "returned to breeder"... a pretty great breeder at that. What could I say but I'd take her.

I was nervous about such a small dog getting along with Chance ... I was nervous about the fact that my dogs go to work with me every day at my retail store and encounter all kinds of people all day long....I was nervous that I'd step on her and hurt her........but all that worry was for naught.

My little 16 1/2 lb. Cav can hold her own with the big boys....she's right in the middle of the play and let's herself be known. She's just as Velcro as my goldens were and assumes everyone loves her and she loves them. She rarely barks and if she does, it's for a reason. She's still got the bird dog in her.....she goes on high alert when she sees one, but will pay attention to me when asked.

I was very, very lucky to get her (wasn't so sure at the time) and even more fortunate to have gotten her from a responsible breeder because I'm also aware of the health problems. She has full clearances and a clean bill of health, but that doesn't mean we've dodged all the bullets going ahead and I know it. Until that day comes we'll live in the moment, she's a great little dog and I'm pretty much sold on the breed. 

A huge plus is the fact that they feel like a golden.....the same silky, soft coat with one tenth the shedding and grooming. You just brush them as they sit in your lap!


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## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

Just an update...we're seriously considering a Havanese at this point...nothing's certain yet, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense, as far as temperament, size, etc. I guess we'll see if the stars align.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Oh, that would be great! I really like the ones I have seen  You might try contacting Jane Docter, to see if she has any hints.


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## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

Tahnee GR said:


> Oh, that would be great! I really like the ones I have seen  You might try contacting Jane Docter, to see if she has any hints.


I actually sent her an email last night. She gave me tons of useful info. Now I just need to absorb it


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

goldentemperment said:


> I actually sent her an email last night. She gave me tons of useful info. Now I just need to absorb it


Jane is a great resource, as well as a great person. Good luck!


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## JessF (Nov 18, 2013)

We have a beagle that we got as a pup. She's now 5 & such a good dog! She likes to run but never goes out of our yard unless she's with my sister in law's labradoodle & lab...and then when you call them back, she's the only one to listen & come back! My 7 & 3 year old love her & she is so good with them! We just got a golden pup this week & out beagle has been so great with her. However like any dog, we trained her...my sister in law had a beagle who wouldn't listen for anything in the world!


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## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

Just giving a little update. We're still looking for the right 2nd dog to add to our household. I've been contacting Havanese breeders and rescues, and am finding a real shortage of adult Havanese in my area (Eau Claire, WI).

On a whim, we decided to visit a 1 year old springer/cavalier mix at a rescue site about 1.5 hours away from our house today. He was a sweet boy, but had some barking, mounting, and general interaction issues with other dogs. I don't think he'd be a good fit for our household and lifestyle.

The whole situation really makes me remember why we chose goldens in the first place. They've got a sweetness, affection, and rock-solid trustworthiness that a lot of breeds don't have. Might be back to the drawing board again...


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