# Immediate help needed



## Tucker'sMama (Jan 7, 2011)

My friend got a pup from the shelter. after going through their hoops and getting this Cute 7 month 50 pound shephard he learns that she is a "demon" puppy. She tears the house apart and has major seperation anxiety issues. he cant even go in the shower without her peeing on his bedroom carpet after he had maken sure she had thoroughly gone before hand. he blocked her in the kitchen with two baby gates stacked on top of each other she tore those down. he closed the slider doors and she pulls them open. she ate both his front and back doors trying to find him and get outside (which thankfully she didn't!) He bought her a Crate to try to teach her to lay in that and put her bed in there and she slept in it all evening with the door open and then closed towards the end and did fine. he took her out to pee and then brought her in and put her back in the kennel and reclosed the door so he could take a shower without her eating something else and she ate the plastic liner and had it pushed out and the bottom of that opening pulled up to were she can get her arm all the way out...... I suggested that he put the kennel on the tile without the plastic, but it's bent and she may break out I suppose... please help with ideas!


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Sounds like quite a few of the pups we have at the shelter, poor thing. Is she aggressive as well? He describes her as a demon puppy but it rather sounds like major fear/abandonment issues. She should definitely be seen by a behaviorist asap - perhaps a veterinary behaviorist in particular.

It is likely that her behavior will improve with time but it is not something that I would try to deal with on my own. Thank him for taking a chance on this girl who clearly needs a good home. 

If he cannot go and get the help she needs I would encourange him to speak with the organization she came from or a rescue group to have her placed with someone with the desire to rehab a anxious dog. We have dogs returned to us at the shelter all the time and usually it is for the better, especially if there were some major unknowns about a dog like this.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

They need to call the nearest vet school and ask about the nearest "board certified veterinary behaviorist". Separation anxiety to this extent is no causal problem and should NOT be handled with this type of professional. The dog will likely be on short term anti-anxiety meds as well as longer lasting ones. Once the anxiety is reduced the ddog should be able to learn that being left alone is okay. The longer they wait for help, the less likely they will be successful. 

if there is no board certified veterinary behaviorist they can drive to, their regular vet can do a phone consult with a vet behaviorist to talk training and chemical help.

They should think long and hard about keeping the puppy. It will likely be a TON of work to train the puppy to be okay alone. It can be expensive. It can be stressfull and time consuming. It can be really frustrating for the humans. The puppy is likely n ot adoptable if they do not keep him, but at the same time there are many many many normal puppies and there is no reason for people to take on a project if they are unable to (financially, emotionally, etc). 

Personally I rrefer all cases this severe to a vet behaviorist and even then there has been poor success rate. I'ts really one of the worst/most emotionally draining problems for the people.

As for right now.... they should call today if they can. If not, get a friend to watch the dog or take it to daycare. Leaving it at home is NOT recommneded for the safety of the house, the safety of teh puppy, etc... it will be veyr expensive and potentially EXTREMELY dangerous for the puppy to be left home alone at this stage of training process.


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## Tucker'sMama (Jan 7, 2011)

Yes I see it as the seperation anxiety as well... and no, there is no food agression. I had suggested to him a trainer as well thank you all for your help I so greatfully appreciate it! and I am sure Callie does too... my fingers are crossed.....


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

Reddogs... why is it so hard to rehabilitate separation anxiety? I've never actually experienced it in any dog I've owned or met.

*EDIT* I moved my question and RedDogs response to a new thread so I don't hijack this one and get it off track! I think the dog involved is more important than my own ignorance!

*EDIT EDIT* Thank you so much for responding RedDogs ;-)


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Financial, emotional, and time strains, all of this increases with the severity of the case.

--During the b-mod process the dog is not left alone except in training. This means there always has to be a second family member, a friend, a neighbor, someone to leave the dog wtih. During the day if the person has a job out of the home or even to just go to the store, the dog needs to be supervised or at daycare.
-- Anti-anxiety meds can help a LOT to make the training process go faster. And with severe cases (dog causing injury to himself or severe damage to the home), short term meds are used... but the others take longer to make changes in the brain chemistry. This means 6-8 more weeks until we see those changes. And by the time people ask me or vet behaviorists for help, they can't always last 6-8 more weeks.
-- It's really hard to see your dog having injured himself as well as the damage to your home and belongings. It can be frustrating and disheartening. 
-- The training protocol is long and boring. I'ts hard to measure progress at time.s 
-- Many of these dogs are anxious about other things. Meaning, more time to solve those problems.
-- The frustration and challenge seems to have an exceptionally significant impacct on the human-animal bond, or like in the case of the dog in this thread, the separation distress could result in a bond NOT forming with a newly adopted dog.
-- Guilt. The people wish they could help the dog more or that the dog wouldn't be like this in another home. And at times they wish the dog wans't like this or they didn't get the dog.... but they also love the dog and feel guilty for the negative thougths about the dog. 
-- People wait too long to get help. They try all the tricks they get online and from friends and from vets and from trainers...often trying one thing at a time... so the dog is learning that those things are still making the world scary, and so it's harder for the dog to progress once a good bmod protocol is given. It's better to make a LOT of changes at once. People think if they try just a bit more they'll get help. But then.... when they do ask for help, they're really frustrated and emotionally spent and can't always last the weeks for the training and meds to start showing progress.

But a lot of it is just the part where people feel trapped at home. 

I'm thankfully that I've only personally experienced mild separation distress, but as I have a pet with other very severe behavior problems, I can have a lot of empathy for what families with a SA/SD dog are experiencing. I've had many families in classes or contact me about this sort of thing and I've helped them along with the vet professional. And it's just emotionally really hard.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

I feel for your friend. I lived with a Shepherd who had severe separation anxiety, so I know how difficult it is.
Our Gunner had mild to moderate SA from day one. Later in life, he came down with a medical condition that his vet believed contributed to higher levels of generalized anxiety, and then we moved. It was basically the perfect storm and his SA got a LOT worse. 
I agree that he really needs to find a good behaviorist who's had experience dealing with SA. A regular "trainer" probably won't be able to handle this and could potentially make matters even worse. The last thing your friend or his pup needs is bad advice!

It's not necessarily ALL doom and gloom. It can be overcome, but it won't happen overnight. It will take a lot of time, a LOT of patience, understanding and dedication on your friend's part. And when he needs to vent, be there to listen to him. It's a very frustrating thing to deal with and like RedDogs said, it's just very hard emotionally.


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## Tucker'sMama (Jan 7, 2011)

Thank you so much for everyones concern and help... I so hope she can get better he loves her dearly but at the same time no one can afford to rebuild a rental from the ground up because it's being torn town every day.... and it's ok to get off track.. I like to hear about it as well, I have never had a dog that was that bad...


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Tucker'sMama said:


> Thank you so much for everyones concern and help... I so hope she can get better he loves her dearly but at the same time no one can afford to rebuild a rental from the ground up because it's being torn town every day.... and it's ok to get off track.. I like to hear about it as well, I have never had a dog that was that bad...


That certainly is a lot of additional stress if your friend is renting. We were in the same position with Gunner. When his SA really peaked, we had just moved from our own house into an apartment. The first few weeks were just pure hell. I was sweating bullets, just scared to death that we were going to get kicked out of here because of him. The only thing that saved us is the fact that I work at home and was able to work with him everyday, all day, for weeks... just to get him to a point where he could be left alone for a couple hours without destroying the place or barking _too_ much. If I'd had to work outside the home, I don't know what we'd have done.

I think RedDogs might have made a good point in that your friend should probably take a very realistic look at the situation and decide whether he's in the position to tackle this. If he thinks he can do it, god bless him and more power to him! But if he has doubts, he needs to know that it's okay. Not everyone is in the position to manage a dog like this.
If he should decide that she's just too much for him, I would beg him not to return her to the shelter, though. The next person who adopts her might not love her as much and might not be as understanding. If it comes to that, I would contact a Shepherd rescue and see if she can be placed in an experienced foster home.


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## Tucker'sMama (Jan 7, 2011)

thanx so much he's giving her some time and see if he can do it.. he really wants to but I told him the same as well... don't take her back.....!!!


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Just a little help, it's possible she might do better in an airline crate type. Some SA dogs feel more secure in them, or at least can't break them like a wire crate.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Tucker'sMama said:


> thanx so much he's giving her some time and see if he can do it.. he really wants to but I told him the same as well... don't take her back.....!!!


It's great that he really wants to give her a chance! 
How long has he had her now? Since she's a shelter dog, she's more than likely been through a lot and I would think it's at least possible that she's just a little 'freaked out' right now and might calm down as she settles in and starts to feel more secure in her home.

I was thinking about her last night and had an idea. Depending on her temperament and how she is with people and other dogs, it might not be a bad idea to get her involved in some kind of activity - obedience, agility, flyball, Schutzhund... anything. It might help her channel some of her energy and burn off some of her anxiety. When he finds a behaviorist, it might not be a bad idea to ask him/her if they think it would help her.


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## Tucker'sMama (Jan 7, 2011)

he only had her for less than a week when all of this happens.. I am going to call tonight to see how she is doing and how he is holding up.... when she has more training she will be able to be with him at work.... I just don't know how much training she needs before that happens... and I will deffinately talk about the pup sports as well...


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Tucker'sMama said:


> he only had her for less than a week when all of this happens.. I am going to call tonight to see how she is doing and how he is holding up.... when she has more training she will be able to be with him at work.... I just don't know how much training she needs before that happens... and I will deffinately talk about the pup sports as well...


I sure hope she's starting to settle in. And I hope he hasn't lost his sanity yet!
Please keep us posted on her. I'd love to know how it works out for this girl. From what I've heard about her so far, she reminds me so much of my Gunner. I already have a soft spot for this pup and I've never even seen her!


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## Tucker'sMama (Jan 7, 2011)

so sad to say, but Callie was given up on today..... he feels aweful the people that took her made him feel like **** and I am too afraid to ask what she did yesterday to find out... but if he doesn't feel he can keep her safe, then I guess you have to do what you gotta do... I feel aweful and wish I could have helped help more...


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Tucker'sMama said:


> so sad to say, but Callie was given up on today..... he feels aweful the people that took her made him feel like **** and I am too afraid to ask what she did yesterday to find out... but if he doesn't feel he can keep her safe, then I guess you have to do what you gotta do... I feel aweful and wish I could have helped help more...


Thanks for the update. I'm sorry they gave him such a hard time. I just hope that means they are great dog lovers and will give her a great home.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Tucker'sMama said:


> so sad to say, but Callie was given up on today..... he feels aweful the people that took her made him feel like **** and I am too afraid to ask what she did yesterday to find out... but if he doesn't feel he can keep her safe, then I guess you have to do what you gotta do... I feel aweful and wish I could have helped help more...


Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. My heart goes out to him - I imagine he can't be feeling too good about it right now.
And it's really lousy that the people chose to treat him that way. Like I said before, SA isn't a minor behavioral hiccup. It's a very difficult thing to cope with and not everyone is in the position to do it. It's great that he found people who think they can, and I really hope they CAN help her. But they had no right treating him like that.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Tucker's Mom*

Tucker's Mom

Where did he give her up to?


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## Tucker'sMama (Jan 7, 2011)

He couldn't find a rescue close enough to be able to take her there so he took her back to the bakersfield shelter where he had gotten her from. not only did they give him an aweful time talk bad about him to the dog in front of him, but they charged him over a hundred dollars to bring her back. and that's after he had payed for her spay, shots and the adoption fee....


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Tucker's Mom*

Tucker's Mom

Is it a kill shelter?


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## Tucker'sMama (Jan 7, 2011)

From what I understand it is not...


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## FinnTastic (Apr 20, 2009)

Tucker'sMama said:


> He couldn't find a rescue close enough to be able to take her there so he took her back to the bakersfield shelter where he had gotten her from. not only did they give him an aweful time talk bad about him to the dog in front of him, but they charged him over a hundred dollars to bring her back. and that's after he had payed for her spay, shots and the adoption fee....


Wow, that was rude of them. I hope this doesn't discourage him from getting another dog from a shelter. I'm sorry for your friend.


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## Tucker'sMama (Jan 7, 2011)

from what I understand no.. but you never know unless you've seen first hand I guess...


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