# Timberwolf formula change info...



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Very interesting and raises some questions, doesn't it????? I'm just glad I don't feed that food. If you really want an eye opening read about food read "Food Pets Die For" by Ann Martin. You will be so glad you're doing the NV patties and Honest Kitchen.


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

i used to really like the timberwolf products, but after this letter from them, it really just sounds like blatant lies to cover their butts. makes me wonder what else they're covering up from their customers.


----------



## Shining Star (Jan 7, 2007)

missmarstar said:


> i used to really like the timberwolf products, but after this letter from them, it really just sounds like blatant lies to cover their butts. makes me wonder what else they're covering up from their customers.


You have a Beautiful Golden and he has a great looking coat
if your only feeding him Timber Wolf It looks like he is doing great on it.

If he is doing so good on it why would you want to change foods.

I feed my Golden Star Timber Wolf and she is doing great on it also.
Her coat is nice and soft and shiney.
I don't plan on changing her food unless she starts having problums
with it.


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Shinning Star said:


> You have a Beautiful Golden and he has a great looking coat
> if your only feeding him Timber Wolf It looks like he is doing great on it.
> 
> If he is doing so good on it why would you want to change foods.
> ...



thanks! i appreciate the nice things you've said about my Sammy.... now as to why i am switching his foods... Sam has always had allergy issues. it has taken some time to find a food that doesnt make him get the itchy-scratchies all the time or make him throw up (anytime he eats most grains, he throws it right up), and the best kibble that worked for him so far was the Timberwolf Ocean Blue, with salmon oil added to both his meals. he still had some scratchy issues though so i was still open to finding a new food for him. then i decided to give raw food a try. he has been eating the natures variety raw patties for a couple weeks now and i can already see a difference! not only with his itchy skin, but also with his poops being MUCH smaller, less frequent... that just shows me that he is absorbing more of the nutrients from the food and expelling less, meaning its definitely more nutritious for him. 

honestly i had already made the decision to switch him to raw before this information on timberwolf organics came out (see my Raw Foods post in the nutrition section) but this just encouraged me even more as this whole thing just seems a little shady on TO's part.


----------



## Shining Star (Jan 7, 2007)

missmarstar said:


> thanks! i appreciate the nice things you've said about my Sammy.... now as to why i am switching his foods... Sam has always had allergy issues. it has taken some time to find a food that doesnt make him get the itchy-scratchies all the time or make him throw up (anytime he eats most grains, he throws it right up), and the best kibble that worked for him so far was the Timberwolf Ocean Blue, with salmon oil added to both his meals. he still had some scratchy issues though so i was still open to finding a new food for him. then i decided to give raw food a try. he has been eating the natures variety raw patties for a couple weeks now and i can already see a difference! not only with his itchy skin, but also with his poops being MUCH smaller, less frequent... that just shows me that he is absorbing more of the nutrients from the food and expelling less, meaning its definitely more nutritious for him.
> 
> honestly i had already made the decision to switch him to raw before this information on timberwolf organics came out (see my Raw Foods post in the nutrition section) but this just encouraged me even more as this whole thing just seems a little shady on TO's part.


 
I tried my Golden Star on Raw for about 3 weeks but it is a lot more
expensive them Timber Wolf.
She liked the Raw food .
I would give her the morning meal of Timber Wolf and the evening meal
of Raw.
I seemed to work out fine for her that way but the cost of the Raw
food for 2 meals a day would be a lot more then the Timber wolf.
So when she finished the Raw food up I went back to the two meals of 
Timber Wolf.


----------



## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

I've been using TO for a while now and haven't noticed any differences in the food or its effects on my dogs. I am going to carefully review this though - just to be safe. I have always believed it to be very high quality food. Thanks for sharing that!!!


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

the formula changes do seem to be more for the worse than for the better, and the letter from the TO employee does seem a little iffy to me.. that being said, if i felt that the TO food was working the best for Sam and he had no issues with it, i would consider keeping him on it. It definitely is more about what works for each dog than what ingredient list sounds "best". BUT... like i said with Sam's allergy issues, what food he is on is my top priority and i feel that he is doing MUCH better on the raw than he ever did on any other food, even the TO which i felt he did great on until i started him on raw food. it is true that its more expensive, but i will give him the best food i can afford to if it helps to alleviate some of his itchy allergy symptoms.

i'm not telling anyone to stop feeding TO food if its working fine for their dog... i'm just putting the information out there, because it does not appear that TO has given that courtesy to their customers and are trying to keep the changes as hush hush as possible. i feel everyone has the right to make an informed decision of their own about it!


----------



## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

I did find a heart shaped piece of kibble in with all the regular little nuggets last week...seriously. I thought it odd, but kind of blew it off. I also found a huge dried kernel of corn in a "corn-free" can of Canidae. I wrote the company but got no response. Back to THK for me I think!


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> I did find a heart shaped piece of kibble in with all the regular little nuggets last week...seriously. I thought it odd, but kind of blew it off. I also found a huge dried kernel of corn in a "corn-free" can of Canidae. I wrote the company but got no response. Back to THK for me I think!


oh my gosh how weird!! the heart shaped piece of kibble could have just been a misshapen one that looooked like a heart by coincidence... but a kernal of corn in canidae canned food?? how strange and definitely something to not ignore.. i can't believe they just didn't respond to you! if even just to say sorry it must have been a fluke, here's a coupon for a few free cans of food!


----------



## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

missmarstar said:


> oh my gosh how weird!! the heart shaped piece of kibble could have just been a misshapen one that looooked like a heart by coincidence... but a kernal of corn in canidae canned food?? how strange and definitely something to not ignore.. i can't believe they just didn't respond to you! if even just to say sorry it must have been a fluke, here's a coupon for a few free cans of food!


The heart-shaped piece really looked like it was made that way - it looked like a piece of Kashi Heart to Heart cereal. The corn kernel was huge...and yep, they totally ignored my email.


----------



## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

Several on the all breed board i frequent use TWO and when there wre all the recalls they were for the most part bragging about how perfect their food was with no recalls, and slamming all the "junk food" for recalls--tho some was not junk food. But then some tried to find out where the TWO was made and were told the location couldn't be given out due to " not wanting the formula to get out". Most of us thought that odd--any lab could do a test and found out just what ingredients are in there. But most of the users went on about how tough the competition was and TWO was right. But now this all comes to light it makes me--and them by what i have read on that forum--wonder if they wouldn't give the location not so much to keep theri precious formula from getting out so much as having people find out out their ingredient list wa not as listed on the bags. Many are switching from TWO bcause they feel they have lied to, thinking they were feeding dog one thing and all along it was not as told.


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

3 goldens said:


> Several on the all breed board i frequent use TWO and when there wre all the recalls they were for the most part bragging about how perfect their food was with no recalls, and slamming all the "junk food" for recalls--tho some was not junk food. But then some tried to find out where the TWO was made and were told the location couldn't be given out due to " not wanting the formula to get out". Most of us thought that odd--any lab could do a test and found out just what ingredients are in there. But most of the users went on about how tough the competition was and TWO was right. But now this all comes to light it makes me--and them by what i have read on that forum--wonder if they wouldn't give the location not so much to keep theri precious formula from getting out so much as having people find out out their ingredient list wa not as listed on the bags. *Many are switching from TWO bcause they feel they have lied to, thinking they were feeding dog one thing and all along it was not as told.*



yes i feel the same way.... the whole thing strikes me as strange and like i said before, if they lied to cover their true ingredients up, who knows what else they have covered up from their customers?


----------



## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

I switched to TO for convenience as our house has been on the market and I needed something I could feed fairly fast in a pinch, THK takes a bit longer..but I am SO going back to Honest Kitchen now! I really liked the ingredients in TO and loved the vac-sealed bag. I hate feeling like a food isn't what it's supposed to be, or worse that it could be harmful. Although I don't suspect TO is harmful, it's a very expensive food...and I may be dumb, but I am not stupid...not going to spend $50+ a bag on something that isn't what it purports to be!


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

today we went to my boyfriends sisters house for dinner and i had a little sample bag of TWO ocean blue that i brought along for Sam to eat. bf's sister looked at the ingredients and was like "man I wanna eat this food!" and i thought, you look at the old ingredient list and i sounds like it would be delicious! now you see chicken fat right up top, dried everything.. seems a whole lot less appetizing to me!

it is true that its too expensive to not be entirely satisfying.. and i hate feeling like someones trying to take advantage of me.. i feel timberwolf took advantage of the fact that most of their customers would not look at the ingredient list and notice the new changes.. 

i brought the timberwolf sample along for his dinner tonite because it was convenient... i will definitely be getting some THK for such situations and feed mainly the NV raw patties... i just feel more comfortable knowing more exactly what is in the food i'm giving my pup.


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

don't know if anyone has seen this but www.dogfoodanalysis.com has updated their reviews for the changed TWO formulas. they are just as disappointed with the changes as i am.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

All of this makes me glad I'm sticking with The Honest Kitchen .... all human grade ingredients and made in a human food plant !!! It does take some time to rehydrate, but it's minimal.


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

I bought some THK for Sam and had been giving it to him about 2 or 3 days a week, but noticed on those days that his poops were HUGE! is this the case for u P&Mmom? because of this, i've decided to really just keep THK food for a backup or emergency and feed him only the NV patties.. he is doing so amazingly well on the raw food I couldn't be happier with the changes I've seen in him.  

too bad all this happened with TWO... they seemed to make such good food.. i really do wonder if their "new" formula is what i had been feeding Sam all along and had just been deceived as to the true quality of their product.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

missmarstar said:


> I bought some THK for Sam and had been giving it to him about 2 or 3 days a week, but noticed on those days that his poops were HUGE! is this the case for u P&Mmom? because of this, i've decided to really just keep THK food for a backup or emergency and feed him only the NV patties.. he is doing so amazingly well on the raw food I couldn't be happier with the changes I've seen in him.
> 
> too bad all this happened with TWO... they seemed to make such good food.. i really do wonder if their "new" formula is what i had been feeding Sam all along and had just been deceived as to the true quality of their product.


No, in fact quite the opposite... much less volume and nice and firm. And with 4 large dogs, that's important ! LOL I agree, I don't see myself ever going back to kibble..... I've just been so pleased with every aspect of the dehydrated raw (THK) and the raw patties like you use.


----------



## pb1221 (Nov 21, 2006)

Wow-I am very upset re. the brown rice and chicken fat esp. One of my goldens, Murphy has IBD and it is very important that she only have one source of protein in her diet and no rice. I have been feeding both Murphy and Chauncey Timberwolf Bison and Potato for 1 1/2 years now. I have noticed lately that they both have small scabs on their skin and their ears get red inside. Murphy's stomach seems ok so far but I am very uncomfortable with the deceit re. the true ingredients. I will be looking for new food now. Anyone know of another company that makes bison???


----------



## goldensonly (Jun 13, 2005)

I recently switched from TWO... The thing that got me was their mis-information when I wrote to them, asking about the price hike... they told me $4-$5 a bag, but it was $7 a bag difference. Feeding 6 dogs @ $62 for a 33# bag was just a bit steep for me, especially when I knew there were other excellent Super Premium foods on the market, just as good as TWO! I now feed California Natural, and my dogs are thriving!! $40 for 35#... works for me!!! Poops are now very small and compact!!

I had switched about a week before hearing of all the controversy about TWO... 

Another company that makes bison is http://www.tasteofthewildpetfood.com/

Good Luck with it!


----------



## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

What is the price of THK? I can't find it in any store.


----------



## goldensonly (Jun 13, 2005)

If this link works right, these prices are right from their website...

http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/shop/index.shtml


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

i believe Taste of the Wild has a bison formula... they are very much like TWO but all their formulas are grain-free, and its a bit cheaper than TWO too. i'd check it out, i believe the formulas are very similar, just grain free.


----------



## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

goldensonly said:


> If this link works right, these prices are right from their website...
> 
> http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/shop/index.shtml


sheesh, I wish I could afford that. Although it might even out with both the kibble and canned food I buy.


----------



## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

I h ave KayCee on Taste of the Wild bison formula--high prarie or soemthing like that. no grains, but does have bison, deer, fish--and they do not use that one preservative so many folks are so scared of in fish. So far she is doing great on it. i p aid $22 for a 15 pound bag at the tiny little country store, which mostly caters for the livesotck on the farms and rnches around the county. Do carry a few brands of dog food, and this is one of them.


----------



## Zookeepermama (Nov 12, 2007)

goldensonly said:


> If this link works right, these prices are right from their website...
> 
> http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/shop/index.shtml


Do you need to supplement your dogs with other oils and vitamins or do they do okay as a stand alone diet?


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Zookeepermama said:


> Do you need to supplement your dogs with other oils and vitamins or do they do okay as a stand alone diet?


THK is a balanced complete diet on its own. even feeding a balanced raw diet (NV raw patties or THK) i still supplement with salmon oil for Sam because i notice it helps his skin and coat be at their best  but its definitely not necessary


----------



## tintallie (May 31, 2006)

missmarstar said:


> I bought some THK for Sam and had been giving it to him about 2 or 3 days a week, but noticed on those days that his poops were HUGE! is this the case for u P&Mmom? because of this, i've decided to really just keep THK food for a backup or emergency and feed him only the NV patties.. he is doing so amazingly well on the raw food I couldn't be happier with the changes I've seen in him.
> 
> too bad all this happened with TWO... they seemed to make such good food.. i really do wonder if their "new" formula is what i had been feeding Sam all along and had just been deceived as to the true quality of their product.


I had thought about using The Honest Kitchen for emergencies as well (or for camping since I don't really want to feed the bears a raw diet!). BUT I do have some hesitation because almost ALL their formulas have potato in it and I've noticed that Wiggles doesn't seem to do well on items containing potato (including Innova EVO treats). I guess I won't know for sure until I order a sample size pack to see if it affects him poorly.

Which formula were you using that you noticed the HUGE POOPS? What is your definition of huge? How much food do you feed Sammy per day on raw only? on raw and THK?


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

I have the Force formula right now, but it's almost out because i just bought the 4lb bag. i will probably buy Embark to have on hand when it runs out and see if we still have giant poop issues with that 

ok i'll get poo technical here.. LOL.. with the raw patties, Sam's poops are little hard rocks, probably about an inch or less in diameter, and maybe 2 or 3 of the rocks.. thats it. they are also a strange color, like almost a light green/brown. on THK, they are like.. poopy brown color, thick, long "normal" poops, not like his "raw" poops at all.. lol i dont know how to explain it... they aren't runny, but are definitely mushy and not rock hard like when on the patties. does that help give you an idea? LOL

on the raw patties, he is now eating about 7oz of meat (2x a day, which is 1/2 patty and 3 medallions each meal) and on THK he gets 1 cup of dry mixed with 1 cup of water each meal.


----------



## tintallie (May 31, 2006)

missmarstar said:


> I have the Force formula right now, but it's almost out because i just bought the 4lb bag. i will probably buy Embark to have on hand when it runs out and see if we still have giant poop issues with that
> 
> ok i'll get poo technical here.. LOL.. with the raw patties, Sam's poops are little hard rocks, probably about an inch or less in diameter, and maybe 2 or 3 of the rocks.. thats it. they are also a strange color, like almost a light green/brown. on THK, they are like.. poopy brown color, thick, long "normal" poops, not like his "raw" poops at all.. lol i dont know how to explain it... they aren't runny, but are definitely mushy and not rock hard like when on the patties. does that help give you an idea? LOL
> 
> on the raw patties, he is now eating about 7oz of meat (2x a day, which is 1/2 patty and 3 medallions each meal) and on THK he gets 1 cup of dry mixed with 1 cup of water each meal.


So for one raw meal, Sammy gets how many lbs?? I thought NV patties were 0.5lb patties..what are these medallions? So Sammy gets 14oz of raw in a day then? How much Sammy weigh again?

Wiggles eats 1lb of raw food each meal for 2lbs per day (2 NV patties/meal, 4 NV patties/day in equivalent terms...we use a different brand now), and his poops are the same size coming out, but I have to pick up about 6 of them compared to your 3 each walk (2 walks a day so he has about 12 of them total a day).

Wiggles needs that much food to stay at his weight. I can't imagine how much poop he would produce if he was anything other than raw!! :uhoh:


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

yes, the NV patties are .5lbs... which is equal to 8oz (16oz = 1lb)... so yes, he is getting 14 oz of raw food/day which is a little less than 1lb. he weighs somewhere between 55 and 60lbs, not quite sure, but we will weigh him today.

and i love picking up the raw poops vs the big mushy ones.. is it weird that i almost feel like i'm wasting the poop baggies picking them up because they're so small? LOL


----------



## tintallie (May 31, 2006)

missmarstar said:


> yes, the NV patties are .5lbs... which is equal to 8oz (16oz = 1lb)... so yes, he is getting 14 oz of raw food/day which is a little less than 1lb. he weighs somewhere between 55 and 60lbs, not quite sure, but we will weigh him today.
> 
> and i love picking up the raw poops vs the big mushy ones.. is it weird that i almost feel like i'm wasting the poop baggies picking them up because they're so small? LOL


My boy likes to separate his poops....he doesn't just go all at once. I hate opening a bag and grasping the bottom contents and then manipulating the bag so I can use it again....ugh. So yeah....I go through like 4 bags/day but at least they are all the biodegradable ones....I don't use grocery store bags because they always have small holes on the bottom.


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

LOL tin i have to do the same thing sometimes! sam will usually go all at once, but sometimes he will do a little, then finish our walk, then go a little more right before we go back inside... since they're usually so small, i'll just use the same bag but i'm always so grossed out and paranoid that it'll fall out and touch my hand.. lol

i use the little roll of baggies that fits into the little thing i keep on his leash, it works out great, the bags are way smaller than grocery bags (and if i do have to use a grocery bag, i ALWAYS make sure theres no holes... LOL)


----------

