# Did your dog ever show an aggressive streak as a puppy? Is it normal?



## Goose's Mom (Aug 30, 2016)

Hi everyone!

My boyfriend and I have a 13.5-week-old male puppy named Goose, whom we've had for about a month. For the most part, he's lovely--quite mellow for a puppy, is well-socialized/handled and lets you do anything to him (even clean the inside of his ears and clip his nails!) 95% of the time, and is a very quick learner (except when it comes to recall and leash training, which is more to do with resistance than intelligence... :|)

However, he does get into "moods" -- sometimes because he's riled up, or he's doing something he doesn't want us to interrupt, or intensely playing with other dogs -- where he'll start snarling and biting us. Usually it's because we're trying to pick him up when he's in this mood (he's 100% cool with being picked up at all other times; in fact he won't even wake up if he's napping), but it is a little bit disheartening to see him snarling and snapping at us. This isn't playful biting/nipping (which he also does, a lot) -- this is true aggressive behavior that makes me scared to touch him or pick him up. 

Many puppies display this type of behavior--especially certain breeds and/or some rescue pups. So my question really is: as a GR, is this indicative of his future/true temperament at all? Or is it normal even for completely good-natured dogs to show an aggressive side as a puppy? We went with a golden mainly because their temperaments are typically so easy-going, so I'm wondering if this is normal for a GR puppy. It's alright if it's not; I just want to know if Goose is perhaps sometimes more sensitive than usual GRs so I can anticipate that in the future. 

*End neurotic new puppy owner rant*

Would love to hear your thoughts and about your personal experiences! Thanks so much 

P.S. Picture of Goose attached -- he's the cutie on the right, obviously. He loves his vizsla friend!


----------



## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

None of the 2.5 puppies (goldens) I have raised have shown any kind of aggressive behavior, especially to humans. Picking up and holding the puppy is part of the temperament testing done at 7 weeks and how the puppy reacts can be indicative of a puppy's temperament (when looking at the test as a whole).

Volhard Dog Training and Nutrition: Behavior and Training: Behavior

I don't know if it's "normal" or not (what's normal, anyway) but _probably_ not typical for a golden.


----------



## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

At that age it isn't agression. At that age they are learning what you want. Chloe would always curl up her nose and look so mean at that age. They become conflicted. Your telling them no or a command butt they want to keep doing it. It stops as they grow up and they learn what you want. I would quit picking him up. The biting will end when the puppy hits five months or so. If your not doing training classes sign up.


----------



## Goose's Mom (Aug 30, 2016)

Vhuynh2 said:


> None of the 2.5 puppies (goldens) I have raised have shown any kind of aggressive behavior, especially to humans. Picking up and holding the puppy is part of the temperament testing done at 7 weeks and how the puppy reacts can be indicative of a puppy's temperament (when looking at the test as a whole).
> 
> Volhard Dog Training and Nutrition: Behavior and Training: Behavior
> 
> I don't know if it's "normal" or not (what's normal, anyway) but _probably_ not typical for a golden.


That's what I was a bit worried might be the case. :crying:



Cpc1972 said:


> At that age it isn't agression. At that age they are learning what you want. Chloe would always curl up her nose and look so mean at that age. They become conflicted. Your telling them no or a command butt they want to keep doing it. It stops as they grow up and they learn what you want. I would quit picking him up. The biting will end when the puppy hits five months or so. If your not doing training classes sign up.


I'm really hoping so! He does do the same snarling when he's playing with other dogs sometimes, so I want to believe that it's just unknowing puppy behaviors that aren't necessarily genuinely aggressive. Thinking maybe he'll understand what's appropriate for humans as he grows older, but also paranoid that it's an early sign of a temperament issue.


----------



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Your instincts are correct, the behavior you're describing would worry me also. Are you signed up for obedience classes with him? Are you working on on-leash obedience with him every day? Is he being given boundaries, for example is he allowed on the furniture? If he were my puppy, he would not be anytime soon. The fact that he is laid back for the most part is a good sign but I would definitely be very careful about letting him get the idea that you're not in charge. A good, experienced trainer would be a good person to have on your payroll. 

He is not old enough that if he is doing something he needs to be distracted from, you don't need to be picking him up to remove him. Start keeping treats in your pocket at all times or keep some in a baggie on the counter. If he is into mischief, call him and reward him for a treat. Start practicing trading with him for things he has, trade him a treat and then return what he has (if it's allowed) 

Do some research on canine body language and try to become familiar with how aggressive posturing looks. It sounds like you are aware that there is a difference when he has shown his teeth playing which is normal and when you've done something he doesn't like and he's reacted. Trust your instincts on this and if you continue to see issues, do not wait to get help.

My last big suggestion would be that he needs to wear a collar and drag a short, 12 -24 inch lead at ALL times that he is loose in the house. Use this lead to control him or gain physical control rather than putting your hands on his body or on his collar. It will help avoid some problems.


----------



## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

At that age I wouldn't worry to much about it being aggression. Chloe is 1.5 and sometimes when we are playing hard she looks like a devil dog. But she has no aggression issues. We laugh when she does it but it's funny. Goldens are called landsharks when they are puppies for a reason. When he gets that way do a short five minute training session with treats and work on stay, sit, lay down and stuff like that. But doing the things suggested above can make sure it doesn't turn into agression. Noelfan has some good advice.


----------



## Piper_the_goldenpuppy (Aug 26, 2016)

So, I've never had issues like this with Goldens that I have raised personally. What you have described worries me some as well. I will say that its not necessarily indicative of a severe temperament problem...puppies that age are still figuring out the world and I guess some puppies may push the boundaries more than others. Ideally, a puppy who is frustrated would bark back at you, run away from you if they didn't want to be picked up. But I would not treat this lightly, and would absolutely involve a trainer or possibly a behavioralist, who can best help you manage this and help train him in a firm, constructive, and loving way. 

There is a difference between a snarling devil-dog that is playing, and a dog that snarls and snaps and bites when he is prevented from doing something he wants to be doing. It sounds like this is happening when he is getting over-excited (playing with dogs, really riled up etc), and this might be happening when he is just way to overstimulated. Is he playing with dogs his own age? Sometimes when puppies play with older, more active dogs, or with children, the play is just too much for them. Puppies don't know how to stop or walk away--often they can't even settle themselves down for a nap on their own. 

It sounds like he is the type of dog who will need to have firm boundaries that are enforced. This doesn't mean that you start being harsh with him, but just lovingly enforce the rules. I agree with nolefan's excellent advice, and would sign up for obedience classes if you aren't already. I would make him work for every single thing he does. Before play, do some training exercises where you have him sit, lie down, etc. Same goes for before putting food down (sit, down, leave it, make him wait for things, going on a walk, taking him off leash to run and play, or before letting him do anything he wants to do. You want to teach him that he has to do these things to get things he wants, and it helps reinforce you as his director. It also gives him lots and lots of positive reinforcement. Some puppies need more structure than others, and when they don't have it, they will start imposing their own rules. 

Work on recall, so any time you can call him over. If he's more distracted, give him a more high value treat (string cheese is a good one, if he can have it). He will learn that its more rewarding ultimately to do whats asked. Any time he does something that is good, reward with treats. If you need to pick him up and he doesn't snarl or bite (I would do this when he's not super riled up), reward with a treat. 

If you aren't already, doing leash training while inside can be very helpful. Its sometimes way to hard for a dog to listen outside at first. Same goes for recall. 

I think you are definitely doing a great thing by noticing and getting on top of this early. I would trust your instincts. I've been annoyed as all hell by my puppies, sick of getting scratched, but the only time I've been really afraid was when Piper, my 5 month old, decided to guard her first bully stick. Fortunately, she got past that after an hour or two. But all the more reason to get a professional in to help. 

Keep us posted!


----------



## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

fayesue said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> My boyfriend and I have a 13.5-week-old male puppy named Goose, whom we've had for about a month. For the most part, he's lovely--quite mellow for a puppy, is well-socialized/handled and lets you do anything to him (even clean the inside of his ears and clip his nails!) 95% of the time, and is a very quick learner (except when it comes to recall and leash training, which is more to do with resistance than intelligence... :|)
> 
> ...


 
Frustration tolerance (intolerance) varies dog - to - dog. Just like humans - some cope well with frustration, others not so much. Just like people, if they are over tired, over excited, stressed, or perhaps in pain, the ability to cope with 'frustrating' situation diminishes. Just like humans - dogs need to learn to cope with 'frustration', - the reality the we cannot always have what we want when we want it, they need us to help them learn 'impulse control' - building and reinforcing patience- they are not born with it, but they can learn it. 
Teach your dog to make eye contact with you, gradually increasing duration, and adding distractions, teach him to say 'Please' -to sit to gain permission to do what he wants to do. Teach such skills as 'wait' - to sit calmly while we put the food bowl down, a wait briefly before eating, wait for permission to go out the door, to go to a mat/bed and remain there until released (gradually increasing duration and distractions). Building the 'stay' skill - gradually increasing time, introducing distractions - a favorite toy placed a distance away, someone talking or walking past, working up to more difficult distractions such as a bouncing ball/or a ball rolling past them. Teach a 'settle' or 'relax' cue. 

Consider 'why' you are interrupting him from doing what he is doing, and how you are doing that - do you 'need' to interrupt or pick him up? It can be startling or scary if he is engaged in/focused on doing something he is enjoying doing and not expecting it, so his reaction may be instinctive - based on fear rather than frustration. Do you have his attention, or are you swooping in like a hawk? Keep in mind if he is not looking at you, doesn't see you coming, that he may not even realize you are there.


----------



## LittleRedDawg (Oct 5, 2011)

It's not outside the range of normal....if you allow it to continue, it will be a problem...if you stop it now it won't.

I'd suggest some solid obedience classes to learn how to train him.


----------



## Goose's Mom (Aug 30, 2016)

Thanks so much for your input, everyone!!!

We actually already have a private positive reinforcement trainer who does at-home sessions with us every other week, and then are also enrolled in a separate puppy kindergarten class. We also set very clear boundaries at home; he eats and sleeps in his crate, he has his own small area that's gated off where he can't get into any mischief, and he's attached to our hip with a leash in the house anywhere outside his area. No access to furniture yet; he's still a chewing machine. So we may be going a little overboard on the training/obedience front, if anything.  Also, we take him out to play at least 5-8 times a day, so I don't think his behavior is due to a lack of mental or physical stimulation.

I presented my concerns to our private trainer, and she is very much of the opinion that there's no such thing as a bad dog, and that any behavior can be managed to some degree through positive training. And that while there are traits that tend to be stronger in certain breeds, that she's dealt with aggressive GRs and sweet Akitas, so that temperament is really an individual thing. However, many of her clients seem to reach out for her help on "troubled" dogs with issues like leash reactivity, aggression, etc., so I think her baseline might be a little bit different from mine as someone whose top priority when getting a puppy was getting/nurturing a super mellow and loving temperament. 

That's all to say--she's a great trainer who isn't likely to see something as "oh this behavior means you probably got an aggressive dog", but rather "it means the puppy is riled up and this may be a conflict behavior, here's how to try and get him to calm down and remove him from the situation". 

My question, as I mentioned before, is a different one: whether this is normal for a GR puppy, and if any GR owners have the classic loving GR dog who may have snarled now and again as a puppy (but that it's a behavior they just grow out of). I'm not sure if I'm overstating the kind of behavior I'm seeing; his lips do curl and he growls and bites, but he's quite easy to calm down if you just let him down and calmly ask him to sit for a treat. So may he's just overstimulated/riled up and needs to increase his stimulus tolerance as he grows older. Who knows!

To be honest, I've been losing sleep over certain things I see--he doesn't seem particularly excited to see us (partially because he doesn't kiss and his tail doesn't wag much); he occasionally shows this aggressive streak that I probably overblow and extrapolate to the worst case scenario...but this is just a baby! I think I'm expecting far too much of him. I've just been waiting so long to get a dog and find the right one, and I'd imagined having a loving, affectionate dog who adored me to come home to everyday. Selfish new dog owner impulses that I'm not proud of, but they've been affecting me a lot. :-( I guess I was looking for reassurance that other people's dogs who are now GR love bugs may have only grown to be that way once they grew older, and that the 30-second growling/biting streak every other day is a normal puppy thing. 

Sorry for the novella, everyone! It's hard being a new puppy mommy sometimes, and I think I'm getting in my own head.


----------



## Mayabear (Aug 26, 2015)

It sounds challenging, but nothing that cannot be resolved with consistent training. For example, don't pick your pup up to interrupt him. Clearly that riles him up and to communicate to you that he doesn't like it, he may snarl or worse, snap. So train him to come to you. I understand this is easier said than done, and it will take time, but continue with a consistent, calm-yet-firm manner, and positively reinforce him coming to you or whatever else you choose to do to interrupt him. 


I doubt it is aggression, but it can be disconcerting and demoralizing for inexperienced owners (I was in this boat in Feb '15, and while I still don't have a lot of experience, I have learnt valuable lessons since then). Maya displayed some level of food aggression on more than one occasion, snapping at my when I fed her a piece of apple (I held on to it for too long and she snapped), and then at my wife when Maya mistook her movement for trying to take away a dental chew. For the next month, probably longer, I hand fed her kibble. She also learnt "wait" and "take" - this applies to food and toys, so when she gets riled up playing with a toy, sometimes I will ask her to drop it, and then make her wait for a few seconds before resuming play. This allows her to come down from her frenzied state. 


Obedience classes and training will help. There are no bad dogs, but some naturally test boundaries and challenge authority more than others. Work with your dog as much as you can - it takes time, a lot of patience, and tons of positive reinforcement, but it is worth it. 


Reading this post I realize I need to keep working with my own!


----------



## B and G Mom (Oct 29, 2014)

Ahhhhh, the "perfect Golden" and the high expectations! We went through that with our first boy Bailey. 

My first impression is that since he is well mannered at other times and that he will settle down that he is testing you and showing frustration as Charliethree mentioned. "I'm having fun Mom, I don't want to stop whatever it is you are trying to stop me from doing so I will protest and show my frustration the only way I know how". Especially if you are taking him by surprise when you do it, you could be triggering a "fight or flight" instinct in him without realizing it.

We spent many years in training with Bailey and it took him almost 3 years to calm down, but once he did - best Golden ever (Ok, I'm biased and I happen to think all golden are the best). 

It's good that you realize your expectations are too high right now... yes he's a Golden, but he is a baby and Goldens take a while to grow up... but when they do you are rewarded as long as you are willing to put in the effort up front with training as you are doing. His attention span isn't going to be very long at this point so hang in there!

Every dog is different, every dog has their own language... Bailey showed how happy he was to see us not by kissing and tail wagging (he was never a kisser), but by greeting us with a hardy "Roo roooo rooooooo" and then going and getting a toy and flopping down by the door. We called it his "content bone"... what he was saying is "my pack is all here now, I can happily chew this toy and know that all is right in my world, I am sooooo happy you are home". But that being said, he would seek out being petted and loved on, but not until he passed his "landshark and whirling dervish" stages. When I would work out on the floor, he would "army crawl" over to me to get as close as he could and usually put a paw on me - I always joked he was trying to help me workout by adding extra weight. How much more loving could he have been??? I'd of course stop exercising and pet him and talk to him and look into his sweet brown eyes... so he may not have done that when I walked in the door, but wouldn't have traded it for anything. 

So after he got past the "rough parts", yes I can say that my ADD puppy eventually turned into that love bug. It may not have been a perfect journey but it was so worth it - miss him everyday.


----------



## Piper_the_goldenpuppy (Aug 26, 2016)

fayesue said:


> Thanks so much for your input, everyone!!!
> 
> We actually already have a private positive reinforcement trainer who does at-home sessions with us every other week, and then are also enrolled in a separate puppy kindergarten class. We also set very clear boundaries at home; he eats and sleeps in his crate, he has his own small area that's gated off where he can't get into any mischief, and he's attached to our hip with a leash in the house anywhere outside his area. No access to furniture yet; he's still a chewing machine. So we may be going a little overboard on the training/obedience front, if anything.  Also, we take him out to play at least 5-8 times a day, so I don't think his behavior is due to a lack of mental or physical stimulation.
> 
> ...


So you are doing all the right things. Its wonderful that you are working with a trainer. The biggest thing to remember is you still have a baby puppy. He's to little to know that humans like kisses (sometimes dogs have to learn this), and licking is not always affectionate--it can just be because dogs end up liking something that tastes good on our skin, like remnants of food. Often dogs are conditioned to give kisses more because we like it, and praise them when they do, or its a displacement behavior when they want to mouth. I teach my dog that its not appropriate for her to mouth on me, and so she gives me kisses instead. 

There's also a variability in temperament. Some Goldens are little more independent, and some are more loving and velcro-y, and want to be lap dogs. But its rare that a Golden puppy of 13 weeks to be super mellow and super loving. They are just too busy exploring the world! Puppies have an attention span of like 10 seconds, so they are easily distractible. At their heart, goldens are very active. This is especially more relevant if you have a golden who came from a field line: they are goofy and loving, but also need a lot of activity.

I'm inclined to agree with your trainer. Its not a problem behavior, but it could become one if not addressed, and there are appropriate ways of managing it that might require extra attention. It just highlights an area that you might need to work on more than other people. For example, my 5 month old, Piper, is a pretty timid and submissive dog and was pretty fearful as a puppy, especially of adult dogs and strange objects. It just highlighted something that I needed to focus more on than others who have a puppy who is not afraid of anything. She's still sometimes nervous, but she's a totally more confident dog now than she was at 10 weeks old. She's also more sensitive, so I've had to be careful at how I correct her--a soft, emotionless "eh eh" is more than enough for her. For her, even the inflection in my voice (i.e., if i sound more stern or frustrated) carries a lot of weight. So I'm more careful about my tone than I was with my last golden girl, who knew no fear and sometimes required more reinforcement of boundaries. 

I don't think you are over-training. To be honest, training is the best way to build a strong, loving bond between you and your dog. And your puppy just has a lot of growing up to do. Goldens are often puppies up until 2 years old, and often don't mellow out until then. Those ideal "Golden Retriever" qualities take a bit of time to develop.


----------



## -ALBUS- (May 5, 2016)

Cpc1972 said:


> The biting will end when the puppy hits five months or so.


You say this in every post about puppy biting, but it's not necessarily accurate. Just because that's when your dog stopped, it's not going to be true for everyone else. Albus is 7 months and his biting is now worse than ever, to the point where some very experienced trainers (who personally own several Goldens) are concerned and want to help us get the behavior under control ASAP.

That's awesome that your dog stopped biting at 5 months, but the problem seems to persist for many puppies well beyond that age. Let's just keep it real.


----------



## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

-ALBUS- said:


> You say this in every post about puppy biting, but it's not necessarily accurate. Just because that's when your dog stopped, it's not going to be true for everyone else. Albus is 7 months and his biting is now worse than ever, to the point where some very experienced trainers (who personally own several Goldens) are concerned and want to help us get the behavior under control ASAP.
> 
> That's awesome that your dog stopped biting at 5 months, but the problem seems to persist for many puppies well beyond that age. Let's just keep it real.


You know what I meant. It was a general time frame. Geez


----------



## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

-ALBUS- said:


> You say this in every post about puppy biting, but it's not necessarily accurate. Just because that's when your dog stopped, it's not going to be true for everyone else. Albus is 7 months and his biting is now worse than ever, to the point where some very experienced trainers (who personally own several Goldens) are concerned and want to help us get the behavior under control ASAP.
> 
> That's awesome that your dog stopped biting at 5 months, but the problem seems to persist for many puppies well beyond that age. Let's just keep it real.


Kaizer had one of these phases too. His biting actually got worse at 5 months, and continued to get worse until 9 months. Now he's an absolute joy who still does occasionally mouth (I think he thinks it's an sign of affection LOL) but it's much much softer and he stops when I tell him too. The best method for me was to walk out every single time he put his mouth on me because by then, he had actually cared about my presence. Petting him calmly got him hyper because he thought I was reciprocating his playing. I had to remove myself calmly from the situation, I didn't touch him or look at him at all. A lot of it was patience, something I had none of until Kaizer.


----------



## -ALBUS- (May 5, 2016)

Cpc1972 said:


> You know what I meant. It was a general time frame. Geez


Yeah. My concern is more that you (and many people on here) are essentially downplaying folks concerns by basically saying that the dogs will grow out of the biting at at some point within the "general time frame" of five months. That's simply not true for many dogs, and you could be doing a disservice by leading inexperienced owners to believe that this behavior will eventually go away on its own. It's a dangerous generalization to make on your part, especially without even witnessing the behaviors in question.

I made a lot of excuses for my pup over the last 5 months (oh he's just a puppy! / this is totally normal! / this will go away on its own! / oh my baggy sweatpants must just be too good for him to pass up! / oh this will go away when his puppy teeth fall out! / oh he's only growling and barking and biting (really hard) because he's hungry or wants attention! / etc.) I learned most of those excuses on here.

Now that we've sought professional advice not just from an experienced team of trainers, but an experienced team of trainers who have personally owned Goldens for decades, we realize that we made a big mistake by not nipping these behaviors and bad habits in the bud a long time ago.


----------



## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

No one is down playing anyone's concerns. There are always going to be pups who don't grow out of it as quick. But the average where they stop the landshark is right around 5 to six months. With new golden owners they just need to be assured it's normal. I am sorry your pup is still mouthy. Normally it's just management and teaching them when they are super young so they do grow up and stop doing it. Most Goldens if you teach them it's not ok and you manage it well will grow out of it. That doesn't mean you ignore it and don't do anything.


----------



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Goose's Mom said:


> ....We actually already have a private positive reinforcement trainer who does at-home sessions with us every other week, and then are also enrolled in a separate puppy kindergarten class. We also set very clear boundaries at home...
> 
> My question, as I mentioned before, is a different one: whether this is normal for a GR puppy, and if any GR owners have the classic loving GR dog who may have snarled now and again as a puppy (but that it's a behavior they just grow out of). _I'm not sure if I'm overstating the kind of behavior I'm seeing; his lips do curl and he growls and bites, but he's quite easy to calm down if you just let him down and calmly ask him to sit for a treat. So may he's just overstimulated/riled up and needs to increase his stimulus tolerance as he grows older. Who knows!_
> 
> To be honest, I've been losing sleep over certain things I see--he doesn't seem particularly excited to see us (partially because he doesn't kiss and his tail doesn't wag much); he occasionally shows this aggressive streak that I probably overblow and extrapolate to the worst case scenario...but this is just a baby! I think I'm expecting far too much of him. I've just been waiting so long to get a dog and find the right one, and I'd imagined having a loving, affectionate dog who adored me to come home to everyday. Selfish new dog owner impulses that I'm not proud of, but they've been affecting me a lot. :-( I guess I was looking for reassurance that other people's dogs who are now GR love bugs may have only grown to be that way once they grew older, and that the 30-second growling/biting streak every other day is a normal puppy thing. ....


He is a baby and it takes time and training to develop the kind of bonds you see in idealized "dog/owner" relationships. Some take longer than others, they are all individuals. Puppies are like babies, they tend to take and take. It's older dogs that have matured and bonded with you that you see giving affection and the well trained dogs who someone has spent A LOT of time with every single day who have a relationship like something out of a movie. However, a puppy that is giving you 'reactive' behavior a few times a week is not average or ordinary. You are not blowing things out of proportion. When it happens with a 15 pound puppy it's a worry, when it happens with a 55 pound dog it's a major problem. You are correct to follow your instincts and deal with it asap rather than putting your head in the sand and hoping it will go away.

I'm glad you have a trainer you feel good about. Getting her on board right away is the smartest thing in the world you can do to keep this from escalating. Keep a notebook on your counter and keep notes of how often you work on training and if there is an "incident" what happened, what time of day, what led up to it, etc. Keep track of all details so you have a detailed history to look back on if this continues. It sounds like she has good experience but I'll be honest, there may be no "bad" dogs, but there are plenty of dogs that are not fit for family life or even a normal life with people. I hope she will be a good resource for you on working with your puppy.

I will answer your question, I apologize for not answering it before, I guess I didn't want to say it, but no, this is not ideal, normal Golden Retriever puppy behavior. There is a chance he will grow out of it with time and effort on your part but there is a small chance he will not.

1) He is still very young and yes, you are starting to see behavioral signs that are not good. But you are doing the right thing in working with an experienced trainer and with dedication and effort on your part you have an excellent chance of being successful and ending up with a Golden you can enjoy and love as part of a normal family life. 

2) Unfortunately there are puppies who live with people who can't or won't make the effort to work consistently with a puppy, be mindful about their behavior toward the dog and work on responding to the puppies issues or quirks. It's work. There are no guarantees with living creatures. You're going to have to do the best you possibly can and hope for a good outcome.

I have been down this road with a puppy. I tried very, very hard to do everything right, I socialized, gave treats for meeting people, took him everywhere, had him at the bus stop to meet children (I have 3 kids) and trained him (he wasn't my first Golden) and had boundaries and he just wasn't meant to be a family dog. I took him to a certified Veterinary Behaviorist at NC State University, Dr. Gerard Flannigan, who explained to me that he sees more and more puppies with issues and he doesn't know why but some grow out of it and some do not. No one can know for sure what the reason is, since none are raised in exactly the same manner. The best you can do is work with the puppy you have as best and as consistently as possible.

I have had experience raising (my rough collie who is a dream with people and children) and 4 goldens, one with temperament issues and 3 who are all good with people and good with children. None of the ones that are good with people ever snarled and lashed out, not ever. The puppy who was a problem did the things you are describing. The first incident I noticed was at age 14 weeks. My family was in the kitchen, I was cooking and my 7 year old daughter was setting the table. My puppy put his feet on a chair to see what was on the table. My daughter put her hands on his shoulders to gently move him off, I was right there watching. He whirled on her with a snarl and a snap. He did not want her to keep him from doing something he wanted to do. It was horrible. My daughter was raised with dogs, is gentle with them and had never seen a dog act like this with a person before. Neither had I. I understand how upset you feel when you see your puppy do things that you never expected to see your adorable Golden puppy do. 

Please know that it's not you, it's the puppy. If the trainer you have helping you isn't able to help you and in 2 months you are continuing to see problems, you need to search for a Certified Veterinary Behaviorist who can hopefully offer different insight and answers. Do not let it continue to go hoping it will get better if the current trainer is not helping, get a second opinion.

Did you puppy come from a reputable breeder who is following up and communicating with you? You need to let the breeder know you are having some red flags, ask for advice and let her know what you are doing to address things.

Please keep us posted on how things are going. We are pulling for you.


----------



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Cpc1972 said:


> ...There are always going to be pups who don't grow out of it as quick. But the average where they stop the landshark is right around 5 to six months. With new golden owners they just need to be assured it's normal. I am sorry your pup is still mouthy....



I honestly think in this case you are misunderstanding what the owner is telling us. Her puppy is displaying behavior that is not just typical 'mouthy' puppy. Re-read her original paragraph:

"However, he does get into "moods" -- sometimes because he's riled up, or he's doing something he doesn't want us to interrupt, or intensely playing with other dogs -- where he'll start snarling and biting us. Usually it's because we're trying to pick him up when he's in this mood (he's 100% cool with being picked up at all other times; in fact he won't even wake up if he's napping), but it is a little bit disheartening to see him snarling and snapping at us. This isn't playful biting/nipping (which he also does, a lot) -- this is true aggressive behavior that makes me scared to touch him or pick him up."

It's important to understand that sometimes we are going to have people here looking for help that does fall outside 'average,typical' mouthy behavior. Go through and read the original question and then all the responses one more time. She is not talking about puppy play.


----------



## Goose's Mom (Aug 30, 2016)

I so appreciate everyone’s input and personal experiences here! I do realize that mileage may vary with each individual dog, but it’s nice to hear that some people’s distracted land sharks ultimately grew into great, affectionate dogs!

I’m definitely going to consistently “be a tree” and/or remove myself from the vicinity when he gets too worked up. I also need to focus on not taking his behaviors personally. (“oh my god, I have a sociopathic puppy who wants to hurt me; he’ll never love me!) I find myself so ludicrously hurt when I walk in the door after a day at work, and he may or may not come out of his crate, or doesn’t even wag his tail or express any excitement. Human projection at its best.

And what a great point re: the insidious “perfect GR puppy” expectation—the struggle is definitely real! People often choose goldens for their wonderful temperaments, so I think first-time owners like myself panic when we end up with puppies who are actually acting totally normal (being more interested in their environment than their owners, biting, etc.). We can’t expect to have a loyal, affectionate, well-behaved dog right off the bat! …at least that’s what I tell myself to feel better.  

I must say that the feelings of disappointment and anxiety over whether you chose the right puppy are absolutely awful. I’m plagued by those feelings, and then on top of it, wracked by guilt for feeling them. I knew it’d be hard to raise a puppy and prepared myself for that, but I didn’t expect to feel this kind of quasi-remorse and uncertainty over whether I chose a dog that may not be the perfect fit. 

It’s so helpful to have a community of experienced GR owners to coach me through this process. I hope it’s normal, but if it’s not, it’s likely due to my own neuroticism and not anything to do with the pup. 

P.S. Just a disclaimer: despite how pessimistic and hard on Goose I sound, I love him and I know things will work out. I’m not at all considering giving him up or shoring back on training and attention.


----------



## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

-ALBUS- said:


> Yeah. My concern is more that you (and many people on here) are essentially downplaying folks concerns by basically saying that the dogs will grow out of the biting at at some point within the "general time frame" of five months. That's simply not true for many dogs, and you could be doing a disservice by leading inexperienced owners to believe that this behavior will eventually go away on its own. It's a dangerous generalization to make on your part, especially without even witnessing the behaviors in question.
> 
> 
> It really needs to be kept in mind that most of posters on this forum are not dog trainers, with a formal education or certification in dog training, they are drawing on their own experiences, and what has 'worked' for them and their dog. Some advice can be helpful, useful, some not so much, BUT, a forum is not a substitute for a qualified, certified dog trainer, with a solid background in dog behavior for behavior issues in dogs. If one has concerns with their dog's behavior, has that 'gut feeling' that something is not right, seeking out the guidance of a professional, experienced trainer is never a bad idea.


----------



## wdadswell (Dec 17, 2015)

My last Golden was a Tasmanian devil, as a puppy! I think it had a lot to do with being removed from his litter too early. He was a rescue and I got him at 5 weeks of age. I wasn't a greenhorn and his behaviour had me baffled. I took him to a behaviourist and he went to obedediance as well. The only thing was, he never displayed the behaviour to anyone else.
Thankfully, he outgrew it and became the best dog I've ever had and extremely mellow, except the nail thing. Never did like that.


----------



## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Goose's Mom said:


> I so appreciate everyone’s input and personal experiences here! I do realize that mileage may vary with each individual dog, but it’s nice to hear that some people’s distracted land sharks ultimately grew into great, affectionate dogs!
> 
> I’m definitely going to consistently “be a tree” and/or remove myself from the vicinity when he gets too worked up. I also need to focus on not taking his behaviors personally. (“oh my god, I have a sociopathic puppy who wants to hurt me; he’ll never love me!) I find myself so ludicrously hurt when I walk in the door after a day at work, and he may or may not come out of his crate, or doesn’t even wag his tail or express any excitement. Human projection at its best.
> 
> ...


How long is he in his crate for while your working?


----------



## Goose's Mom (Aug 30, 2016)

nolefan said:


> He is a baby and it takes time and training to develop the kind of bonds you see in idealized "dog/owner" relationships. Some take longer than others, they are all individuals. Puppies are like babies, they tend to take and take. It's older dogs that have matured and bonded with you that you see giving affection and the well trained dogs who someone has spent A LOT of time with every single day who have a relationship like something out of a movie. However, a puppy that is giving you 'reactive' behavior a few times a week is not average or ordinary. You are not blowing things out of proportion. When it happens with a 15 pound puppy it's a worry, when it happens with a 55 pound dog it's a major problem. You are correct to follow your instincts and deal with it asap rather than putting your head in the sand and hoping it will go away.
> 
> I'm glad you have a trainer you feel good about. Getting her on board right away is the smartest thing in the world you can do to keep this from escalating. Keep a notebook on your counter and keep notes of how often you work on training and if there is an "incident" what happened, what time of day, what led up to it, etc. Keep track of all details so you have a detailed history to look back on if this continues. It sounds like she has good experience but I'll be honest, there may be no "bad" dogs, but there are plenty of dogs that are not fit for family life or even a normal life with people. I hope she will be a good resource for you on working with your puppy.
> 
> ...


Yikes, I just read this after posting my last post. Thank you so much for taking the time to give such thorough advice. I appreciate your honesty, as much as it pains me to hear. I think I need to first accept the possibility that I did not pick the "perfect" puppy for me, and then devote my energy to working hard with him on any behaviors that need managing. And hoping for the best. 

More than anything, I think I need to relax--not on his training, but my emotional state. Things will be OK, and while I know this is a red flag, it doesn't mean that I'm going to have a completely mismatched dog for 15 years like I'm catastrophizing about.


----------



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Goose's Mom said:


> ...I need to first accept the possibility that I did not pick the "perfect" puppy for me, and then devote my energy to working hard with him on any behaviors that need managing. And hoping for the best.
> 
> More than anything, I think I need to relax--not on his training, but my emotional state. Things will be OK, and while I know this is a red flag, it doesn't mean that I'm going to have a completely mismatched dog for 15 years like I'm catastrophizing about.



You're on the right track  .... and just remember there are no perfect dogs, just like there are no perfect people.


----------



## Goose's Mom (Aug 30, 2016)

Cpc1972 said:


> How long is he in his crate for while your working?


He's only ever in his crate for two hours. My boyfriend and I have worked our schedules that way, and occasionally have a dog walker come let him out and play with him. We probably don't leave him alone enough, to be honest.


----------



## Piper_the_goldenpuppy (Aug 26, 2016)

Dogs are just like people...they all have different personalities and different "stuff" about them. Some are mouthier, some are needier/clingier, some are more independent, some hate water...etc. Some have major health issues that require a dramatic lifestyle adjustment. Some have a temperament issue that requires work. Only in very rare circumstances, will it be so severe that a pet can't remain in the home, has to be rehomed, or worse, and its a tragedy when that happens. I've been blown away by how different my Goldens have been, including the ones I've raised since 8 weeks old. 

Keep doing all the things that you are doing, try to relax (its impossible not to worry, especially if you are a first time dog owner...but I've spent a lot of time fretting over all of my dogs' quirks. I've lost sleep over Piper's submissiveness, and worried that she'll become a fear-aggressor later in life). The fact that you are noticing this now and working with your dog so much means you are way ahead of the game. Many times this behavior goes unnoticed and just gets attributed to "cute puppy misbehavior" but its a different story when a 60 pound dog does it. 

One of my best friends rescued a dog at 8 weeks old who is a probable lab/rottie/pit mix of some sort. She was very sweet as a baby, but has developed some serious temperament issues--she's terrified of children, doesn't like men (for no reason), and is REALLY protective of her owner, and has issues when she cant greet dogs on leash. This stuff didn't really come out until she was 7ish months old, and it had become a major problem. She also happens to be probably the smartest dog I've honestly EVER met, and is a real sweetheart. She was well trained and well socialized from the beginning, but then these things really started to impact her. Many owners probably wouldn't have taken the time to address it properly--its a lot to handle. But my friend upgraded from a regular trainer to a behavioralist, and amped up her training and its really amazing to see the progress she's made.

So keep up the good work. Let us know how it goes!


----------



## Goose's Mom (Aug 30, 2016)

Piper_the_goldenpuppy said:


> Dogs are just like people...they all have different personalities and different "stuff" about them. Some are mouthier, some are needier/clingier, some are more independent, some hate water...etc. Some have major health issues that require a dramatic lifestyle adjustment. Some have a temperament issue that requires work. Only in very rare circumstances, will it be so severe that a pet can't remain in the home, has to be rehomed, or worse, and its a tragedy when that happens. I've been blown away by how different my Goldens have been, including the ones I've raised since 8 weeks old.
> 
> Keep doing all the things that you are doing, try to relax (its impossible not to worry, especially if you are a first time dog owner...but I've spent a lot of time fretting over all of my dogs' quirks. I've lost sleep over Piper's submissiveness, and worried that she'll become a fear-aggressor later in life). The fact that you are noticing this now and working with your dog so much means you are way ahead of the game. Many times this behavior goes unnoticed and just gets attributed to "cute puppy misbehavior" but its a different story when a 60 pound dog does it.
> 
> ...


Ah, thanks so much. Yes, I'm in that "losing sleep over his quirks and worrying it'll bloom into something awful as he gets older" phase for sure. I know it's a red flag and that we have to proactively work on his absolute tolerance to being handled--it's just so weird because he's maybe the most tolerant puppy to physical handling I've ever seen, in all other situations. It's just when he gets frustrated over being held for too long, I think. We're going to do some positive handling training especially around picking up, and I should also stop dropping him when he starts biting-protesting and rather release him once he calms down. I guess I need to wear gloves and long sleeves for the next few months!

Thanks, everyone! I realize now that is a real issue I have to address, but it was still really encouraging to hear that other people's little demons grew into loving adults. I needed to hear that!


----------



## MikeTess (Sep 7, 2016)

My female golden came to us from a rescue at 21 months old. We were her 5th home. Two owners and two rescues. The first owner had little kids, the dog was too "aggressive". Second home had other dogs and she was being harassed. Two different rescues in between. She is now the sweetest, smartest, most well-mannered princess! I gave her a lot of support, patience and love. There were bumps in the road but I put in the time needed. The first family gave up a great great dog because they didn't want to wait it out. Their loss, my gain. If you want to rehome your dog send me a message and we can work it out.


----------



## Aislinn (Nov 13, 2010)

It sounds like Goose is having a mini temper tantrum. You've gotten lots of good advice. Did Goose come from a good breeder or did he come from someone who bred two Golden's together and had puppies for sale? If he came from a good breeder, have you contacted the breeder to see what he or she had to say? A good breeder will be more than willing to help you. Goldens, or any other breed, are like kids, all with different personalities. Some are easier than others, and some are harder. I've had foster puppies, not Goldens, who would occasionally did this. I put them in their crate for a mini time out each time and then brought them back out and did a quick mini training session. It sounds like you're doing a great job and don't let anxiety get in the way of enjoying Goose, who is adorable by the way. Continue to work with your trainer and see if possible if the trainer can come weekly. Once you start classes that will give you another source for help.


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Goose's Mom said:


> ....That's all to say--she's a great trainer who isn't likely to see something as "oh this behavior means you probably got an aggressive dog", but rather "it means the puppy is riled up and this may be a conflict behavior, here's how to try and get him to calm down and remove him from the situation".
> 
> Your trainer is a good one, so you should accept her assessment.
> 
> ...



I made some comments above in red.


----------



## Wolfeye (Sep 15, 2015)

Snarling and biting are not good behaviors in any breed, even in a puppy. While dogs are NOT wolves, there may be a dominance play at work here. The dog wants to do something badly enough that it is willing to challenge the alpha or his packmates. In all the dogs I have raised I have never allowed early aggression like that to go unpunished, with punishment being swift - and exactly the same that a wolf would receive. Pinned to the ground by the neck, and a low growl, although I use a hand instead of my teeth to hold him down. 

By that same token, I let my dogs be as independent as I can. None have ever had perfect recall - one in fact, was convinced it was merely a suggestion until the day he died. That particular dog ran across the street once, to investigate something. We didn't live on a busy street so he wasn't in any real danger, or so I thought. A car turned onto the street as he was investigating whatever he had found across the street. So, to make sure he didn't run back across and get hit by the oncoming car, I yelled "stay!" at him, a command he had a pretty good grasp on - so I thought. But to him, stay meant come and sit in front of me. With horror in my eyes I watched him ignore everything and start walking across the street directly towards me. 

He got hit by the car.

Fortunately the car saw him in time and slowed, but the dog went flying about 3 feet and my heart went into my throat. The dog however, got right up and showed no ill effects; not a limp nor a whimper.

So, my tolerance of the situation, his independence if you will, nearly cost him his life. I am not perfect. I've made mistakes with my dogs and will make mistakes in the future, but I would never tolerate a dog that bit or snarled after being reprimanded. I do believe you can live with and trust a dog who has done this, but not one that continues to do it after being corrected. Some dogs are destined to be alpha or die trying - and that's not a reflection on training or selection of the dog. Some things you just can not know until you're deeply into them - like how much morning sickness really SUCKS when you're pregnant. 

Curious, I may have missed it in your posts, but how (or was) the dog reprimanded after the snarl/bite?


----------



## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Wolfeye said:


> Snarling and biting are not good behaviors in any breed, even in a puppy. While dogs are NOT wolves, there may be a dominance play at work here. The dog wants to do something badly enough that it is willing to challenge the alpha or his packmates. In all the dogs I have raised I have never allowed early aggression like that to go unpunished, with punishment being swift - and exactly the same that a wolf would receive. Pinned to the ground by the neck, and a low growl, although I use a hand instead of my teeth to hold him down.
> 
> By that same token, I let my dogs be as independent as I can. None have ever had perfect recall - one in fact, was convinced it was merely a suggestion until the day he died. That particular dog ran across the street once, to investigate something. We didn't live on a busy street so he wasn't in any real danger, or so I thought. A car turned onto the street as he was investigating whatever he had found across the street. So, to make sure he didn't run back across and get hit by the oncoming car, I yelled "stay!" at him, a command he had a pretty good grasp on - so I thought. But to him, stay meant come and sit in front of me. With horror in my eyes I watched him ignore everything and start walking across the street directly towards me.
> 
> ...


You don't reprimand a snarl. The advice given to her in the post above yours is good advice. All of this is normal for a puppy this young but you have to handle it correctly or it may not grow out of it. I remember that snarly nose of chloes for awhile. 

Your trainer is right. This is not aggression but she gave you ways to calm the puppy. You have a good trainer.


----------



## Goose's Mom (Aug 30, 2016)

Aislinn said:


> It sounds like Goose is having a mini temper tantrum. You've gotten lots of good advice. Did Goose come from a good breeder or did he come from someone who bred two Golden's together and had puppies for sale? If he came from a good breeder, have you contacted the breeder to see what he or she had to say? A good breeder will be more than willing to help you. Goldens, or any other breed, are like kids, all with different personalities. Some are easier than others, and some are harder. I've had foster puppies, not Goldens, who would occasionally did this. I put them in their crate for a mini time out each time and then brought them back out and did a quick mini training session. It sounds like you're doing a great job and don't let anxiety get in the way of enjoying Goose, who is adorable by the way. Continue to work with your trainer and see if possible if the trainer can come weekly. Once you start classes that will give you another source for help.


To be honest, his breeder wasn't particularly helpful; she also has cited Cesar Milan's resources in the past, and that's not the approach I want to take. 

Thanks so much for your two cents; we're working with the private trainer bi-weekly, and then going to puppy kindergarten every week. Both are 100% positive reinforcement trainers and do not believe in punishment. I'd prefer to go that route, as frustrating as his occasional aggressive behavior can be sometimes.


----------



## Goose's Mom (Aug 30, 2016)

mylissyk said:


> I made some comments above in red.



Thank you!!! So encouraging to hear you say that. At this point, I want people to tell me I'm holding unrealistically high expectations, and to assume the best--not the worst. 

Again, he is seriously so tolerant and mellow most of the time (bordering on indifferent to be honest…), that I feel like I’m just obsessing over the short instances during which he’s acting aggressive. I know I should also not take it lightly, but I’m hoping that with a ton of training and patience, it won’t present an issue as an adult.


----------



## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

You should quit using the word aggressive. It will change your mind set if you do. Your going to have a very good puppy in a couple of months. You have a trainer giving you excellent advice.


----------



## Goose's Mom (Aug 30, 2016)

Very good point. I'll call it...over-stimulated.


----------



## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

In some ways pups are just like toddlers. They don't have the skill set to act appropriately when they are tired and over stimulated. They don't come out of the womb preprogrammed to act with good manners.  Follow your trainers advice. As your pup learns the cues you are teaching you will be able to control these outbursts better. Think of a young toddler who gets a cookie and you take it off of them. Some days they will just go and play, other times they may scream/cry drop to the floor and roll around thrashing, other times they may run right at your legs to try to knock you down or even bite you. Write down your pups routine and you will notice times the pup is awesome and other times where they just can't cooperate. As you learn that routine you can use your management skills to have the pup go in for a nap before it gets to the tantrum point. Or as the pup slowly learns the cues you will be able to head off a tantrum by redirecting them to do another behavior. Follow the advice of your trainer it just takes time.  You will do fine. Those dreams of that gentle sweet golden laying at your feet happens after a lot of work/training and time for the dog to mature. Pups are landsharks.


----------



## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Goose's Mom said:


> Very good point. I'll call it...over-stimulated.



That sounds better. At that age things over stimulate them so much.


----------



## LittleRedDawg (Oct 5, 2011)

It's not necessarily normal or not normal....puppy growling, barking, snapping, biting is all normal. Pups do that. Part of it is trying to provoke us or another dog into playing with them. When it becomes a problem is when an owner thinks it's "cute" (and it is, don't get me wrong!) and deliberately or accidentally reinforces the behavior. It's not possible to tell what's going on over the internet, but I would suspect part of this is the pup's personality and part of it you've inadvertently encouraged.

On the positive side, you've identified the potential for a future problem now, at 13 weeks, instead of when it's serious at 13 months. There's tons of ways to fix it, as a general rule if you create the problem you won't be able to fix the problem - so getting with a good obedience trainer is the right step.

Obviously there's also a lot of different opinions on the best way to train a dog - I have opinions too - the only caution I would have for you is this: don't limit your options by location, gender, training style, price, tools, etc. Find a trainer who has proven *results* - anyone can talk - find someone who has dealt with dozens or hundreds of dogs just like yours, successfully. Or an upper level competition obedience instructor. 

If you don't have a 180 degree improvement in a month, find someone new. I could fix your pup in a week at my house as could most competent advanced competition trainers. If your trainer can't get you a 180 degree attitude change with you following instructions and putting in the work, they're not competent enough to help you. In a month your pup will be 17 weeks. The pup is easily fixable now - with a delay of a month or several months this bad behavior will become more firmly ingrained and more difficult to fix. And he'll be much bigger. Don't underestimate the potential problem if it's not curbed.... I'm guessing this is more operator error than dog problem, as are most. You just need to learn how to handle your pup. It's doable.


----------



## Goose's Mom (Aug 30, 2016)

*Update on Goose*

Excellent advice from everyone! For those of you have private messaged me, I tried responding but apparently I can't send PMs until I've written 15 posts. So know that I wish I could respond and appreciate the reach out. 

Still having ups and downs with Goose. We've been at my boyfriend's family's house with two other dogs, which gets him very riled up when playing, so the snarling/biting episodes become more frequent. I hate having to worry every time my boyfriend's parents or sister pick Goose up, that Goose might start throwing a tantrum and bite them. I feel perpetually tense and anxious (which I know does not help the situation/Goose can pick up on). I got so sad about the prospect that we just have an aggressive dog that I cried and wondered if we should give him back to the breeder. My boyfriend thinks I'm really overreacting and that Goose is a good puppy overall, but that he doesn't want me to be unhappy with the dog for the next 12+ years. After grappling with the prospect of giving him back, I've decided to stick this out with Goose and do everything I can to curb these tendencies before he grows up. No puppy or dog is perfect, and he's perfect in _almost_ every other way. I can't torture myself anymore with thoughts about whether I made a mistake and whether I should change my decision and give him back while he's still a puppy; it adds monumentally to the stress. 

Per our trainer's advice, we're working on getting him to settle down once he's a bit riled up (but not over the limit). So when he's playing with another dog (but not in full beast mode), we'll ask him to sit and offer a treat. He's been extremely attentive so far, and it does calm him down. We're just more careful about when and how we pick him up or restrain his body. I'm optimistic (at least for the past few hours, ha!) that with consistency and taking smaller steps (treating him at even the small things like looking at us when we ask), that he'll ultimately be able to settle down in most situations. 

Otherwise, he's been doing fantastically in training. He has a very strong "stay", and we can drop treats all around his feet and ask him to wait until we say "OK" to eat them. I figure these exercises in impulse control will also help the temper tantrum issues. 

I've also been scouring the boards on this forum for advice about acts of aggression in puppies, and find it very comforting that others have gone through the same thing and came out alright on the other side. I'll keep you guys posted, but keep the feedback coming if you have more! I check back on this thread frequently.


----------



## firsttimegoldenowner (Oct 7, 2016)

I'm dealing with a similar issue. My husband I have an 11 week old golden boy. I always dreamed of having a sweet golden puppy that was so mellow and would never hurt anyone or anything. When he is calm he will let you touch him all over, kiss his face, touch and squeeze his paws, open his mouth and touch his teeth with your fingers, etc.

However, he gets into moods where he has shown what I believe is aggression. The other night he was sleeping in his cage and I went to touch him to take him out of his kennel (selfish on my part bc i wanted to cuddle him) and he gave me a slight growl. We went for a walk and when i went to pick him up to take him inside he rolled on his back and growled and went to bite my hands/wrists. In addition, if he is playing on his back and i go to reach for him he will try to bite me (however i think this behavior is just playing?) 

One time we were on a walk, i picked him up (i forgot the reason why) and he barked and growled so loudly like he wanted to get down.

When we walk he gets distracted by leaves, rocks, sticks, so i tug to remind him to "keep moving". Sometimes he will plop down on the cement. Not sure if he is telling me he is tired or saying "I'm the pack leader here mom and i am not moving" other times when i tug on the leash he will bit at the leash and sometimes bit at my legs.

When i brought him on the bed today and wanted to take him down (he gets too close to the edge and i am afraid he will fall, he also prefers to chew on the bed sheet vs his toy) he was barking at me and going for my hands bc it seemed like he did want to get down.

He also play bites, so hard to the point where i have little cuts on my hands (drew blood). 

We are in puppy school. There is another little golden puppy (female) and they seemed to love each other. They were wrestling and although he seemed like the more aggressive player (maybe bc he is a boy?) he would let her pin him and he would roll on his back (sign of submission?), however, when i looked away things escalated and he started barking and their play turned into attacking. I wish i would have payed more attention to see who started the rough play. I'm hoping it wasn't him.

He has no food guarding issues, he loves meeting new people and other dogs. However, I am also worried this not so favorable behavior will continue into his adult years.

Does anyone know if the behaviors i described above are normal puppy tantrums? Are they signs of aggression? Signs of dominance?

Any insight will greatly be appreciated. Thanks


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

firsttimegoldenowner said:


> I'm dealing with a similar issue. My husband I have an 11 week old golden boy. I always dreamed of having a sweet golden puppy that was so mellow and would never hurt anyone or anything. When he is calm he will let you touch him all over, kiss his face, touch and squeeze his paws, open his mouth and touch his teeth with your fingers, etc.
> 
> However, he gets into moods where he has shown what I believe is aggression. The other night he was sleeping in his cage and I went to touch him to take him out of his kennel (selfish on my part bc i wanted to cuddle him) and he gave me a slight growl. We went for a walk and when i went to pick him up to take him inside he rolled on his back and growled and went to bite my hands/wrists. In addition, if he is playing on his back and i go to reach for him he will try to bite me (however i think this behavior is just playing?)
> 
> ...


Everything you describe is 1000000% normal puppy behavior. They are not cuddly, fluffy stuffed toys that will let you hold them. They are busy, inquisitive, active, and into everything, and that's exactly the way they are supposed to be.

Please throw the the whole idea of a puppy telling you they are "pack leader". This is a nonsensical idea with no basis in reality. Dogs do not try to be "pack leader" over people. They don't, this is a false idea, it doesn't exist.

Do a search on this board for "puppy biting". You will find thousands of posts and hundreds of threads about puppy behavior, and how they are land sharks for many, many weeks until you teach them not to put teeth on skin. It is 100% normal behavior, we don't like it and we need to redirect it to appropriate things to bite.

Your puppy IS NOT AGGRESSIVE. Puppies use their mouth and teeth on every single thing in their environment, for playing, exploring, learning, and tasting, and growling is communication. He didn't like what you did so he told you. Make handling him a very positive thing, happy voice, giving treats, pick up give treats, when he is calm let him down, that way he learns being handled is good and if he is calm he gets back down.

Please do not buy into the idea that a puppy is aggressive. He's normal.


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Goose's Mom said:


> Excellent advice from everyone! For those of you have private messaged me, I tried responding but apparently I can't send PMs until I've written 15 posts. So know that I wish I could respond and appreciate the reach out.
> 
> Still having ups and downs with Goose. We've been at my boyfriend's family's house with two other dogs, which gets him very riled up when playing, so the snarling/biting episodes become more frequent. I hate having to worry every time my boyfriend's parents or sister pick Goose up, that Goose might start throwing a tantrum and bite them. I feel perpetually tense and anxious (which I know does not help the situation/Goose can pick up on). I got so sad about the prospect that we just have an aggressive dog that I cried and wondered if we should give him back to the breeder. My boyfriend thinks I'm really overreacting and that Goose is a good puppy overall, but that he doesn't want me to be unhappy with the dog for the next 12+ years. After grappling with the prospect of giving him back, I've decided to stick this out with Goose and do everything I can to curb these tendencies before he grows up. No puppy or dog is perfect, and he's perfect in _almost_ every other way. I can't torture myself anymore with thoughts about whether I made a mistake and whether I should change my decision and give him back while he's still a puppy; it adds monumentally to the stress.
> 
> ...


I think you really could resolve your major concern by telling visitors not to pick up the puppy. It sounds like he's a more independent puppy and would prefer not to be picked up.

Give him time outs from play more often when you are around other dogs that get him overstimulated. It's ok to control the time he spends playing, and not letting him get over threshold is just smart. I like the method you are working on already, getting him to settle down during play. Good job!


----------



## Goose's Mom (Aug 30, 2016)

*Update: Goose @ 16 wks old*



mylissyk said:


> I think you really could resolve your major concern by telling visitors not to pick up the puppy. It sounds like he's a more independent puppy and would prefer not to be picked up.
> 
> Give him time outs from play more often when you are around other dogs that get him overstimulated. It's ok to control the time he spends playing, and not letting him get over threshold is just smart. I like the method you are working on already, getting him to settle down during play. Good job!



Agreed, lissyk. Unfortunately it also happens when people try petting him when he’s riled up, but I need to do a better job of warding them off. Apparently telling them that he’s too riled up to pet right now isn’t enough (“oh that’s okay, he’s soooo cute!”) I honestly can’t wait until he’s looks less like a delicious puppy so people stop feeling the need to interfere and touch him constantly! 

However, I do have good news, for those who may be going through the same thing! After an incredibly rough weekend at my boyfriend’s parents house (at which point I almost had a remorseful breakdown), we resolved to dedicate a lot of daily time desensitizing him to handling. We started by treating him every single time we picked him up (and letting him down immediately after the treat), and have progressed to deliberately annoying the crap out of him while we make it rain with treats. After a week or so of this, he has already improved significantly. He’s only done the protest growling/biting thing a few times (versus a few times a day), and usually in very riled up/difficult situations (like when I have to separate him from playing with a puppy if things get too rough, etc.). He’s still wont to do it with strangers which can be very stressful for me, but at least he’s made progress with us. 

We’ve also started hand-feeding him exclusively. He’s shown slight signs (growling) of resource guarding a couple of times with high-value chewies, so we’re making an effort to show him that our hands in his space and in his stuff just means more kibble/treats. 

He’s also stopped being as bitey while he plays, which is a welcome change. But I imagine it may rev back up when he starts getting his adult teeth in and/or goes through his adolescent months. 

From a mental health (ha!) standpoint, things have also improved. If you’re having issues with your puppy that you’re deeply upset over, I recommend reading The Culture Clash and The Other End of the Leash, which have really been helping me change my perspective and stop taking his bad behaviors so personally. Dogs are animals—to feel betrayed by a puppy for biting and growling at you is just silly anthropomorphizing. And to come to the conclusion that a puppy who acts out is fundamentally a “bad dog” is stupid and counterproductive—you just need to change their incentive/reinforcement structure.

Goose has also started to become more affectionate towards us—sitting on our feet in the kitchen, walking over to us when we’re sitting and cuddling up by our legs, etc. 90% of the time we pet him, he doesn’t mouth us. He’s still not visibly jazzed to see us when we come home, but perhaps that will come. Overall, he’s an incredibly mellow puppy with episodic protest behaviors, so I think I should be thankful for all the great things about him.

Also, he's smart as hell -- check out his impulse control on his Instagram! https://www.instagram.com/thegoldengoose_retriever/


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm glad things are going better!


----------

