# New Member - ? regarding intact male getting bullied /attacked



## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

First off, welcome to the board.

I'm not really sure what the health benefits are for an unaltered male after 18-24 months...


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## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

I'm sorry you are going through this with your dog. I really don't know much about your question though, maybe someone else will be along to help....

welcome to the forum!


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

I noticed my unaltered male started getting attacked at dog parks with no provocation on his part, it was always a dog that he wasn't even interacting with that came up and attacked him out of the blue. It started when he reached sexual maturity at around 9-10 months old. We haven't gone back to the dog park since. I wanted to wait until he was sexually mature and fully grown to alter him, and we recently did have him neutered at age 3. I've been too nervous to bring him back to the dog park, but I think I may try it at some point soon to see if we have the same issues we had when he was intact. 

All that said, I do think you should neuter your dog. The majority of the health benefits are because you have waited until your dog was sexually mature and fully grown, and now that he is, there are many health benefits and reasons to alter him.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Welcome to the forum,

I totally understand what you are talking about. When Bama was growing up, I waited on neutering him till he was at least 2 years old. The times I did take him to a dog park, he was picked on, so we stopped going. And we do fostering and a couple of times newly neutered pups there would be too much testesterone going on. But once he was neutered, things were fine. 

I would go ahead and get him neutered if he was my dog as I think the health benefits are better. Plus you dont have to worry about if there are any females dogs around that might come into heat.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

I just want to say that the fact your dog was attacked most likely has nothing to do with the fact that he is intact. It may have more to do at this point with your fearful reaction to other dogs and/or the body language your dog is giving off. 
I have an extremely submissive female and a behaviorist once told me she is a walking target to other dogs because of the signals she was giving off. I learned how to give a protective stance that made her less vulnerable to other dogs.
I am not an expert but I truely think it has nothing to do with a different intact male scent.


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## mdoats (Jun 7, 2007)

I neutered Rookie at 19 months. He was used to being around lots of other dogs and he has always been a very well socialized dog. But... some dogs did react negatively to him when he was intact. Occasionally a dog would T off of him at the dog park or would just be way too attentive to him. If that happened, I just leashed him up and left immediately.

That changed after he was neutered. Dogs just didn't see him as a potential threat anymore.


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## C's Mom (Dec 7, 2009)

NikNik said:


> I have a wonderful 2 1/2 year old intact male who is very passive, submissive.


I think this has a lot to do with it. My boy is submissive too and every time I took him to the dog park he would get ganged up on and he is neutered. I, too, would encourage you to have your dog neutered for health reasons. 

As for the walks, I stopped going to dog parks and instead found a fenced in school yard with a grassy area for him to play in. I go there after 6:00 when school and after school programs are over. Other dog owners take their dogs there too and I either let my boy meet their dog if they are nice or we leave. I know I am avoiding but it doesn't seem to bother my boy much as he still loves all dogs..even the ones that want to eat him.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Yes, the other dogs are smelling that he is intact. But I do not think neutering would make it suddenly safe to be walking in these areas where other dogs should be on leash.

You noted that many of the breeds you see are working/herding breeds... and they're probably especially interested in this weird long-haired different-moving dog you have!

Go further to find safe walking areas. Team up with other responsible dog owners to establish on-leash only areas or to walk in a group. Take other people with you when walking. Get some Shield-stop citronella spray to use if other dogs approach. Carry an umbrella to pop open if needed. 

Your dog will only get more scared, or become reactive, if he keeps getting picked on. 

It's unfortunate when it's so hard to find a safe place to walk.


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## Phillyfisher (Jan 9, 2008)

Tucker had the same issue with other dogs before he was neutered. As a new owner, at the time, I was not the best at recognizing some of the dogs and did not avoid situations I should have. We did have a bit of a set back with Tucker's socialization because of it, and he started to become reactive and growl at certain dogs. He is much much better now, and I have learned that there are simply some dogs he should not meet. I agree with others saying it is best to neuter your dog now. It really is best to avoid potential situations and find a couple of other responsible owners to walk with. Perhaps finding an obedience class nearby would help you find those people, and start up a relationship.


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## NikNik (Sep 11, 2010)

*Good comments....thanks!*

I wonder if he will get more passive with neuturing? I also realize that neuturing won't solve all our problems with others dogs, but if it helps me and my fears of loose dogs picking fights. We have very few areas in which to walk without running into other dogs - leashed and unleashed. 

I was holding off neuturing him because of all the recent reasearch done on cancer rates in the neutured vs intact golden boys, BUT, the constant fear & potential aggression that we run into on a daily basis makes neuturing the smart option. Also, our breeder suggested we wait until 2 yrs old. Some golden club members think I should show him or get his certs done for breeeding because of his great temperment & looks.

I know that my fear & stance has gotten worse so I will have to work on that or find a behaviorist to help me become confident because I have lost it all with these constant run-ins. Thanks.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Boy that is such a tough decision. I agree there are health benefits to remaining intact and I know that dogs will pick on and even attack an intact dog when they will have no problem with neutered dogs. The attacks will probably stop (gradually, it takes several months for the testosterone to completely leave a neutered males system) once he is neutered and if it helps you relax, than it is worth it.

I think now that most dogs are neutered, the scent of an intact dog is so strange it sets other dogs off. In Europe, where most dogs are intact, I don't think they have same problem.

European members?


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## Katie and Paddy's Mum (Mar 31, 2010)

Hi NikNik,

Sorry you're having so many issues - it's definitely got to be distressing.
I think you made a really valid point about YOU needing behaviour modification training too at this point. Right now you have admited to being fearful, which only serves to make Che more fearful or potentially protective. Working with a good trainer would help you to find your inner confidence as well. You definitely want walking your sweet boy to be a pleasure and not an occasion filled with fear.

I agree on the neutering. If your breeder contract only had 2 years as a condition, and he is already 2.5 - you have done your part to ensure the health benefits of later neutering have been achieved. On the other hand, if you're considering showing - then you need to have him evaluated by your breeder (assuming it is a reputable breeder) for them to help you with that decision. If you choose to go that route, the training others offered you should seek will become much more important if either of you are going to have a good quality of life when walking outside.

Best of luck to you and Che.

Kim


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## mdoats (Jun 7, 2007)

NikNik said:


> I wonder if he will get more passive with neuturing?


Rookie didn't get any more passive when he was neutered. It wasn't HIS behavior that changed, it was other dogs' behavior toward Rookie that changed.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

It has nothing to do with the fact that he is intact. It has more to do with him and his body language - and even after he is neutered you will probably have the same issues, as being neutered doesn't change too much in an older dog. 

One of our previous goldens (Sam) had the exact same problems with dogs taking offense to him. We called him the swimmer or worm, because he would get so low to the ground while getting away from some dogs. 

He was neutered later in life (had the whole thing taken off due to a fatty tumor exploding in the area) and in the two or three years afterword he still got the same reaction from dogs. Poor boy.

One thing I do know is he did get a lot more protective of his rear end. He did not let other dogs sniff him and would quickly growl if our other (intact) golden went near his butt. <- I'm not sure if that was related to his exploding testicles/scrotum, or if it had to do with him being neutered. 

The main thing is you have to be ready to step in and protect your boy from any aggressors.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

You need to work on your confidence. You're inviting rude behaviour on the part of other dogs by presenting a skittish fearfull appearance. Neutering isn't going to do anything to change your behaviour in meeting other dogs.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Megora said:


> It has nothing to do with the fact that he is intact. It has more to do with him and his body language - and even after he is neutered you will probably have the same issues, as being neutered doesn't change too much in an older dog.


I have to disagree. I have seen many instances where an intact male has a neutered male go after him aggressively. I don't know what causes certain neutered males to respond so negatively, but it does happen.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Perspective from the other side: my Little Red Dog Duffy definitely has more of an issue with intact dogs than he does with neutered dogs. 

While a dog's behavior may play a role, so does being intact.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Neutering*

We've been told by all our vets that it is much healthier for a male dog to be neutered, less chance of prostrate cancer, and a female dog to be spayed, less change of breast or ovarian cancer.

All of our dogs have been neutered and spayed.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Regarding the rottie attack: that the owner did nothing tells me the rottie attacks often and it's just business as usual. NBD Quite possibly had nothing to do with your dog's physical being, he was just the next target.

Beyond that, I'm not familiar with male dogs.


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## NikNik (Sep 11, 2010)

Ok...so even when he is altered, what can I do to regain my confidence the fear? Should I look for a behaviorist? With my last dog (who was an alpha Golden/lab mix) I never had fears or confrontations while walking. He was neutured at 7 months. Now with this beautiful docile golden it's a common occurence. He got bit twice as a puppy that required medical care - at 4 mos by sister in laws older Rottie. Husband was petting both dogs and the Rottie got jealous and bit him in the muzzle. At 6 mos, at a SPCA fundraiser - while a lady was petting him and he was on ground (belly up), her dog came up from behind and bit him near his eye. Sometimes I feel like we are "attacking dogs" - like bees to honey. So sad & stressful . I am game for anything to help alleviate this.


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## NikNik (Sep 11, 2010)

Oh yea....Rottie has chased and went after other dogs & people in the park. The ignorant owner feels sorry for him because he was a rescue. She has allowed this dog to become very territorial while off leash in this public park - that backs up to her neighborhood. It was the fact that we were sitting at a picnic table in the dark rsting aand getting water after our walk, that this Rot stalked and charged us. This is what sent me over the edge....never saw it coming.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

fostermom said:


> I have to disagree. I have seen many instances where an intact male has a neutered male go after him aggressively. I don't know what causes certain neutered males to respond so negatively, but it does happen.


The reason why I think it is simply the dog and the vibes he is giving off is because when other dogs went after Sammy, they would ignore Danny. Both dogs were intact males. 

The same is true with our neutered collie and our intact male golden. We had the first attack this past summer on the golden, and I suspect it was mainly because we always walk past this house where the dog is kept in the backyard and has a lot of built up territorial angst. Other than that we have been to classes with aggressive type dogs and so forth without any incidents (and I hope I'm not jinxing things by saying that). Meanwhile, the neutered collie has been attacked or almost attacked by dogs in my sister's neighborhood. And the same in our neighborhood.

It is the posturing and vibes the dogs give off. Not so much the fact they have stuff in the backseat.


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## C's Mom (Dec 7, 2009)

NikNik said:


> Oh yea....Rottie has chased and went after other dogs & people in the park. The ignorant owner feels sorry for him because he was a rescue. She has allowed this dog to become very territorial while off leash in this public park - that backs up to her neighborhood. It was the fact that we were sitting at a picnic table in the dark rsting aand getting water after our walk, that this Rot stalked and charged us. This is what sent me over the edge....never saw it coming.


Well, it may not be very PC but you can carry a big, thick stick to the park. When other dog owners ask you why you carry it you can tell them that your dog has been attacked and you aren't taking any more chances. It puts the lazy dog owners on notice. Perhaps someone needs to report this Rottie owner to animal services.

The play area I take my dog to is directly across from the park where many street people and their dogs go. I've seen some of their dogs attack other dogs who are simply walking through with their owners. Sometimes these people and their dogs walk through the area I am in to get to the park - I am constantly on the look out for them. I immediately bring my boy to me and will leash him up while saying "leave it" really loudly and sometimes putting on his halti which makes it look like my boy is dog aggressive - ha, if they only knew. At the first hint of trouble we are out of there.


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