# When To Trial For Agility?



## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Well, obviously Maddie needs to be comfortable on all the obstacles before trialing: the jumps, A-frame, dogwalk, weave poles, tunnel, chute, table, and teeter (I think I got them all... it's been a while since I've been to a class). You also have to make sure that Maddie is following your lead and not just taking off on her own course. She really needs to be keyed into you and following your commands. I went into my first trial probably before I was ready (early last fall), but Jersey and I had fun. What I realized was that he is a much higher energy dog in a real ring than at class (hard to imagine!). I found myself doing rear crosses, which I hadn't practiced with him (I sort of pulled it off luckily) because he was moving so much faster than I was used to. So make sure you practice those just in case. Try to do a few fun matches if you can find any near you. That will give you a better idea of what you are working with. 

One other thing... agility is, in my limited experience, is VERY different from obedience. You and Maddie can do everything right and she just barely misses a jump or you take one step too few and pull her up short and there's the NQ. You can be doing this for 20 years and most of the NQs will be the handler's fault... it's just the nature of the beast. Don't let that get you down... think of Agility as purely fun, not work, and try to keep a sense of humor about it. Believe me, everyone who's watching you in the ring has been there before and will be totally sympathetic. Good luck.

Julie and Jersey


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

we just had our first agility trial this weekend and I'll echo the sentiments above.

The things that occurred to me were as follows:

- your dog will likely run at a different pace than at home. Be prepared with different ways to handle it. My girl slowed wayyy down- and while I normally have to rear cross with her, I was able to front cross. 
- We found novice standard much "easier" than novice jumpers. Novice standard gives you an opportunity for breaks with the contact obstacles.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

My lab just completed her nov jumpers title this past weekend. We still need two legs of for her standard. That being said, make sure you have good contacts on your dog. Belle has great contacts in class but twice now has jumped off the A frame her only mistake she has made in any of her classes. Too bad it is a big one. 

Make sure you have your dogs attention. To me watching the other dogs that is a big issue when you get to a trial with all the distractions. One of my agility classmates dogs did the zoomies! She put her in a sit stay at the start line, and took one step away and off she went. This is a great dog, with tons of energy, I just don't think she had her focus. 

Belle (my lab) was older when we started agility and we worked for 2+ years before trialing. We had some confidence issues we had to overcome. It took a while but I am glad we waited. She is LOVING agility trials. We are only doing one days for a while to keep her from stressing. Our first two day trial will be in July, and we will do a Friday and Sunday and see how that goes. So far indoors or out doors, cool or hot my Belle has been ready willing and able. 

Trialing is TONS of fun! You will get hooked I know I am!


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Another thought I don't know if you have this option or not. Several of the training facilities around us have "fun matches". You do not have to be a member and it is a way to practice. Our training facility has them almost monthly, they set a nested course and for $5 you get two minutes on the course to do whatever you want. I started out running the novice courses, then experimented with the open. Now I am running the open (at the fun matches) and experimenting with the excellent. It made me more prepared for what I might see at a regular trial. I was not surprised by what the course challenges were and I was able to handle them.


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## katieanddusty (Feb 9, 2006)

It depends on your goals. If you just want to go have fun and get Novice titles, then really she just needs to stay with you. A loose dog running out of the ring or running over to the dog that's entering the ring next is a HUGE safety risk, especially at agility trials where people sometimes tend to be very permissive about reactivity/aggression (and especially in Novice). Since she has trouble with zoomies in obedience, I'd hold off on the agility until you have that under control. Agility is a much more exciting environment, there are usually more dogs around, and there are probably more potential problem dogs at agility trials. 

Also, all of her obstacles should be fast and happy, and you shouldn't have to "babysit" her (lure her through the weaves with your hand, be near the contact zone to slow her down, etc). You should also know how to handle clearly. A lot of people in Novice kind of yell their way through the course getting a lot of spins and refusals, or just make their dog stay right at their side, stuff like that. It is a LOT more fun for your dog if you know how to actually handle so your dog knows where she's going next.

If you want to be really competitive, there's a lot more you should have before you start competing. In most cases, the problems you start competing with will continue and increase in intensity throughout your dog's career. In the high-stress environment the slow/tentative teeter can quickly turn into jumping off or refusing the teeter, being uneasy about lying down on the table turns into not lying down at all, sometimes stopping on the ground after the contacts turns into not stopping at all, etc. Once your dog rehearses these performances in a trial environment, it becomes super hard to get the right performance. You might retrain a perfect performance, but the poor performance in trials has been patterned into your dog and you'll end up with a "but she only does it in trials!" problem which is VERY hard to fix. So if you want to do really well and there are ANY little bugs in her performance, they need to be fixed before you start competing.

Specific things you should have before you start competing if you want to be really competitive: hitting the weave entries at speed from either side and any angle, solid stay on the start line, understanding of extension cues and collection/turning cues, ability to send ahead to obstacles and do them at a distance, directional cues (either left and right or a generic "turn" away from the handler), and consistent handler-independent contact performance (either 2-on 2-off, one rear toe, four on the floor, or TRUE running contacts). There's probably more but I can't think of any right now.

And make sure she's done a broad jump (it's probably a good idea to work distance on the broad jump and rear crossing the broad jump as well). When I started competing with Boo I realized that he had seen one broad jump at a seminar a year before. Oops.

Have fun competing in agility when the time comes! It's definitely worth the wait to make sure you're really ready.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

So it's FlyingQ in obedience and you (Katie) in agility that make me realize how lax I am in my training... LOL. Don't take that the wrong way, I truly admire people who have the patience and skill to train "perfection" (so to speak) into their performances... I'm just realistic in knowing that, at least for now, I don't. Those are the performances I love to watch. Whereas I'm the novice you referred to "yelling" her way through the course. I just happen to be blessed enough to have a dog that is much better at these things than I am, so we tend to pull off more than we should. Your post gave me a lot of good ideas of things to work on... thanks for your input!

Julie and Jersey


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## katieanddusty (Feb 9, 2006)

Well it depends on your goals, and it is possible to retrain later if you start competing just for fun but later want to be competitive. It's just a lot easier to work out all the bugs before you start competing. Dusty and I started competing with a bunch of problems, I had to work really really hard to retrain him, and he's never been as good as he could be. What I could retrain/improve depended on his stress level, the temperature, how tired he was, where a particular obstacle was on the course, and so on. I tried and tried but could never retrain 2-on 2-off contacts, probably the biggest reason we NQd was missed contacts. I also couldn't get him to run fast off the start line, so I always had to have him bark and jump around and then take off running with him from the start line. 

Coming from where we did I am THRILLED with everything he's accomplished, but there were quite a few things we weren't able to accomplish. He couldn't get the 400 points to qualify for AKC nationals, he couldn't have gotten an ADCH in USDAA, he didn't do too great in NADAC because of their course times, etc. And what we did accomplish took a LOT of effort, creative handling, and being really careful not to remind him of his previous stress issues (like I could never front cross at the end of the teeter because our old instructor used to have me hold the end of the teeter while she basically pushed him up, so he starts shaking if I'm at the end of the teeter facing him).

With Boo I knew a lot more and trained him a lot better, but we still have tons of problems because I started competing with him before we had much of a bond (he was originally my dad's who I just started training for fun, he'd barely had basic obedience and had been just playing ball in the yard for his whole life). He's getting better but when we started competing he didn't really care where I was or what I said. He'd just start running and if I was lucky I could get in his way in order to manipulate his direction. It worked okay in Novice because they don't really have many options other than the right one. But now he just can't Q in Jumpers for anything. People frequently come up to me after we run and go "you set the perfect line, I have no idea why he veered over to that other jump." He loves life, he loves running, and he doesn't really care if he's running where I told him to (or if he's anywhere near me).


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## Molly's Mom (Jan 1, 2007)

For those of you who have competed, how long did you train with your dog before you entered an event? Molly and I started last October and we're nowhere near ready to compete yet. She's still on the baby teeter and the weaves are very iffy. Poor thing is also saddled with a directionally challenged handler who she easily outruns. She loves it and we're having fun so maybe we'll just stay in the intermediate class forever.


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## hawtee (Nov 1, 2006)

The first time I put Lilli in she was 19 months old, however she was "in training" the moment we picked her up lol..started with little things like hiding her under a cover and walking on different surfaces/movement etc.. lol... The real training started after we had been thru 3 obedience classes..
The main thing to remember is the training never stops and handlers are always 99.9% of the time the problem lol..You will get better the more you train yourself and she will gain confidence in your ability to tell her what to do..enjoy it, have fun do not rush, it is a wonderful dance once you begin..


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Thanks guys for all the suggestions...I'm busy today and have LOTS of stuff to do before we head out for class at quarter to 6. I will read the stuff posted today and yesterday when I have the time. Thanks again.
Oh yeah, if this helps: I just probably want to get Maddie's Novice titles, with her hips, I don't think she can do much running and jumping, consistantly. *Maybe*, just maybe we'll do some Open, but I'm not shooting for a MACH, I think Obedience is where my heart is...I can't tell if she has HD, but I just think she has more "clicking" with her hips when we do agility. And to think we made all that equipment...or we get another dog....


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Hi Caryn
Well from what I read here you have gotten GREAT suggestions. As to only going for Novice, it really does not matter as if you do NOT have a good solid foundation you will struggle at any level. Once you have that foundation it is amazing how quickly you can go from Novice to excellent. Try to remember it is not a race, attaining a title, but more of that journey I like to refer to just like in obedience. 
On another note if there is ANY question about Maddie's hips being sound you owe it to her to have them checked by an orthopedic vet before progressing. If they are not sound jumping can cause permament and painful damage. This also pertains to obedience as one of the most damaging things you can do is the broad jump in open obedience. The pounding involved in turning after jumping is unbelievable.


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## bizzy (Mar 30, 2007)

If you are concerned about her hips then you should seriously consider not doing upper level OB either. As ambika mentioned the twisting after the BJ even if you practice from both sides puts a lot of torsional stress on not only the hips but shoulders and knees as well. Also the jumping in utility is angled as well. As much as I love showing I will not risk harm to my dog. 
As far as when to trial. When your foundations are SOLID and you have consistant control at home and class. You want to break the cycle of show zoomies so don't rush but enjoy training and train control as much as the skills so the next time you are in the ring even if you don't Q you DO have control and don't have zoomies. That would be my marker for stepping in the ring again. Do I feel that I can control THAT behavior everyting else for that show would be icing on the cake.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Hey Hank...and bizzy, thanks for the suggestions. Tonight we have class for Obedience and I'll ask Mary, she owns the co-owned dog, and she'll know who to go to as far as the hips. Our mentor tells us that even with the hips x rayed, it won't be cured, just keep building muscle and give her supplements...I think I'll give that to her in a bit. Anyway, if her hips are bad, surgery can cost A LOT...and I'm already having a hard time convincing the parents that we MUST get them xrayed. I'll try to as best as I can.
Thanks for the advice. If her hips are good, then I'll do some Open...but does a dog absolutely HAVE to show pain with HD? Is there a good site to check out? Thanks sooo much guys! gotta run...


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## bizzy (Mar 30, 2007)

That's the thing dogs can be in alot of pain and not show it. So yes a dog can be dysplastic and not show pain. They can also show a lot of pain but only be mildly dysplastic. So you can be jumping and pushing them and they won't tell you it hurts or makes them sore. Advice from those who have put thier hands on her and watched her jumped is a piece of the puzzle as is x-rays. What they will tell you is what is fair to ask her to do. If she is dysplastic then you can make an informed discion about what to do as far as training and showing. If not then you can also make an informed desion about her training.
If you were just casualy training I might say wait and see but you have frquently mentioned your desire to pruse OTCH so I say x-ray. You don't want to accerlerate any degeneration. I woulden't jump ahead to worrying about surgery as you don't even know if she is dysplastic. I would even say wait till you are getting ready to Show in open then x-ray of course if you are planning to do agility then maybe I'd do it now.
So take it one step at a time based on what is best for maddie now and what is in her best interst for her life. You want a heathy companion for life not just the next few years.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

bizzy said:


> That's the thing dogs can be in alot of pain and not show it. So yes a dog can be dysplastic and not show pain. They can also show a lot of pain but only be mildly dysplastic. So you can be jumping and pushing them and they won't tell you it hurts or makes them sore. Advice from those who have put thier hands on her and watched her jumped is a piece of the puzzle as is x-rays. What they will tell you is what is fair to ask her to do. If she is dysplastic then you can make an informed discion about what to do as far as training and showing. If not then you can also make an informed desion about her training.
> If you were just casualy training I might say wait and see but you have frquently mentioned your desire to pruse OTCH so I say x-ray. You don't want to accerlerate any degeneration. I woulden't jump ahead to worrying about surgery as you don't even know if she is dysplastic. I would even say wait till you are getting ready to Show in open then x-ray of course if you are planning to do agility then maybe I'd do it now.
> So take it one step at a time based on what is best for maddie now and what is in her best interst for her life. You want a heathy companion for life not just the next few years.


My dream to pursue the OTCH, might be talking non realistic. It is very unlikely from a Novice "A'er" to go from that to an OTCh...I'm not saying it isn't possible. Sure, picking up a few points wouldn't be bad, but we'll get her trained as good as we can. Tonight at class I'll ask Mary about hips and see if she could tell us what the next best thing is for her, she can put her hands on her and tell us what she thinks, my dad will listen to her. Then we just have to get past the wall of...my mom. :uhoh:
I hope I'm not obsessing about this. it just worries me that I've heard stories on here about Goldens passing away due to bad hips, and I was RIGHT about them not showing any pain, she jumps fine, but you never know, then, what about her waddle? I've been told you cannot tell if a dog has HD by how they gait. Which is totally understandable. My mom also worries about the cost of the xray...I could pay half, but even then, I'm not sure. We'll also ask her a place around here that does a good job and can help guide us through whatever path her hips are on...
Thanks again guys for all the advice, it's helping me...but like I said...that walll...of my mom just is blocking us from doing any xray.


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## bizzy (Mar 30, 2007)

So how did your class go.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Our class went pretty well. And Mary was too busy with talking to and helping out kids, that we didn't get to talk like we usually do. I just shot her an e-mail a little while ago. Hopefully she gets it tomorrow...or tonight.

Thanks Bizzy! How's Lily? When you going for your title?


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

My puppy Teddi has HD and had a total hip replacement. Unfortunately she will NEVER get to compete in agility as she is tall and I feel her required jump height is too big for her. Even if she ran preferred she would have to jump 20". 

That being said she can take classes and have fun. You do not have to compete. I am saddened that I can not compete her as the reason we picked out a pup like her was we wanted drive and energy to compete in agility and dock jumping. My thinking is I will learn how to train her from scratch, and handle a fast high energy dog. My lab who I do compete with, is fast but quite a different personality. Teddi and I will still have fun and with her surgeons blessing. He said keep it low but jump, tunnel and weave to your hearts content. He did say no full height contacts either. I think the dog walk is ok because the angle is not as steep as the A frame, but we won't do a full height A frame, and we never do full height tables in class because of the small dogs. Our trainer doesn't like to keep switching the legs so it stays about 8 - 12 inches.


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## bizzy (Mar 30, 2007)

Lily is doing good. I hope to get her U-CD this fall. The club we got her first two legs at has a show spring and fall. I don't know if I can get her ready for open by that time. I need to practice with her more but we can still show in novice the second day even if we get our last leg the first day.


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