# the WC



## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Your weather isn't that much different from mine--and in early May that water can still be pretty cold, and you won't have had much time to do much preparatory water work. Yes the marks are relatively simple, but making inexperienced dogs go into coldish water can spoil their attitude and willingness. So off the bat, unless we get an early spring, you may want to look for a later test.

As for the test itself, the ones I have gone to have used either pigeons or pheasants on land. The water marks for the C were quite simple and non-cheaty, and used ducks. They were at max 50 yds. Nothing involved what I would call heavy cover.

The birds we had were live when they arrived at the test and were shot on site. So make sure your dog has picked up a freshly killed bird before, and that they have had experience with the birds that will be used at the test--many dogs dislike fluffy pigeon feathers, and pheasnts have a big round body that some dogs find hard to hold well.

Key is to work on the mechanics of that double. I saw dogs fail because they became fixated on the memory bird (shot first) and did not turn to see the go bird land in time. They went out and got the memory bird first, and then wandered around lost when sent for what should have been the go-bird. 

You can cue the dog to the gun stations in a GRCA WC, so take the time to do it. Walk to the line, point the dog at the memory station and then heel him over to face more towards the go-bird. That way he can turn his head to see the memory bird land, but his body will be lined up to take a good line to the go bird. Once he has picked up the bird and is returning, shift so that your feet are pointing to the memory bird, receive him at heel, and cue him with whatever phrase you use (where's your bird/mark, whatever), cue with good/yes when he's looking in the right direction (their ears will often come up and they kind of breath in and hold their breath when they are locked in) and send.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks Shelly, that's EXACTLY the kind of advice I'm looking for!


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Shelly your post was indeed very helpful ....Thanks!


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Shelly's remarks are right on. A couple of things I will add is that with the test in early May while the water may still be on the cold side the cover will likely be minimal as it will not have time to grow much. 
As for the birds it is normally posted in the premium as to what will be used and quite often you will have a flyer either on land or water and sometimes both. That is left to the judges discretion so you will not know till the time of the test.
You can keep the dog on a leash so be sure to take advantage of that. And hold on TIGHT to it, not like others who will remain nameless.
You can wear white so again take advantage of it. It may not sound like a big deal but if your dog picks up the bird and the wing covers it's eyes it will make it a little easier for him to pick you out from the rest of background.
And finally - TAKE YOUR TIME! Make sure you AND your dog are ready before signaling the judges you are ready. You will be amazed how many people get to the line and feel they don't want to hold anyone up so they quickly setup and signal.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

wow, seriously, it's still cold up there in May? We have a split season here, spring (april/may) and fall (sept. - nov). But nothing in the summer. When are your tests?


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

I'll disagree a bit. 

In the WC the angle between the marks isn't that great. When you're called to the line, bring the dog up to line and sit him facing the go bird, then re-heel him and face him toward the memory bird. (i.e. show them the marks). Remember that you may gently restrain the dog in the WC so get a finger under that collar. Once the dog is focused upon the memory bird station, signal the judges and they'll start the test. When the memory bird goes and the shot is fired, many dogs are tempted to break so be ready with that finger if need be. Most dogs will snap their heads around to the go bird station at the sound of the shot or in most cases, shots. (The sound of flapping wings and a shot will draw the attention of any retriever that has had any experience with real birds in training.)

Hang on to the dog until the judges release the dog (Calling your number or saying "dog"). Send the dog for the go bird. Position yourself so the dog is facing the memory bird when it returns to the heel position. You want the dogs spine lined up directly on a path to the memory bird. Send the dog to make the retrieve.

There were several handlers who failed their dogs at the last WC I judged due to lining their dogs up in the wrong direction when setting up for the memory bird. The dogs in question clearly showed that they knew where they wanted to go (the correct line to the memory bird) but the handlers blocked their path and lined them off in the wrong direction. 

Go birds are easy, memory birds are usually a lot tougher.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

In Canada our first hunt tests are in late May and then run through the summer, ending in September and October. I don't mind putting a dog in the water when it is cooling off in the fall, because they have had the whole summer to get a good water attitude, and have started hunting season--gunfire and fresh birds tend to overcome any uncertainty about water temperatures!! There is one field trial early in May, but those are FT dogs, most of whom have spent the winter in the water in Georgia, Alabama etc with their pros. Even so it can be hard on those dogs. There have been years when that trial has run with daytime temps in the lows 40sF, and as you can imagine, that does not help the water to warm up! Sometimes the ponds still have ice on them at the end of April.

I'm going to Alabama in March this year, in part just for the chance to get my dogs some water so they have a bit of a leg up on the season once it warms up here.

As Hank said, taking your time, settling on the line, and coming to the test prepared for anything it can throw at you are key. It can be a great time, and you can meet some great people. As a matter of fact, it was at a WC at the Eastern regional in 2006 where I met him. We all had a blast!


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

PS in light of Swampcollie's post, and as an addendum to my earlier one, when I say to move your dog more towards the go bird, be careful not to pull them so far around that the memory bird is not easily seen. I just like to have the body positioned to encourage them to go in the direction I want them to went sent for the go bird, so that the _dog_ does not make the decision to do them out of order.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

these are excellent excellent replies, thanks so very much.
I will probably re-heel him around to the memory bird, because he has so much obedience training it's what he's used to. We heel toward the glove on the directed retrieve, give a mark, and send him out. Now I know it's not at all the same as sending for a bird, but at least the basic understanding is there.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Barb in "theory" it is similar, but in real life with live/fresh birds it is NOTHING even close. There is NOTHING you can do other than doing it (working with live birds) to simulate it. Trust me on this one! 
Also you can NOT say ANYTHING to the dog from the time you signal you are ready to the time the judge releases you with either your number or the word dog.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

AmbikaGR said:


> Barb in "theory" it is similar, but in real life with live/fresh birds it is NOTHING even close. There is NOTHING you can do other than doing it (working with live birds) to simulate it. Trust me on this one!
> Also you can NOT say ANYTHING to the dog from the time you signal you are ready to the time the judge releases you with either your number or the word dog.


Really? In WC I thought you could send with a release word. My bad. Of course what do I know : I know you can't say a word until you have decided the dog is no longer working and want it to come back to you. Test over. However the WC I observed, usually let the dog come back out and get the bird with the handler to end on a positive note. 

These have been informative posts for me too. I hope to play a bit this coming summer. However in May in MI my dogs have usually been SERIOUSLY swimming and not caring, I don't know the water is 'that' cold. 

I think Teddi's first swim in a lake in her life was in late March or early April. Yes the water was cold but we could not keep her out. I think that depends on the dogs water drive. Teddi's is HIGH. 

Ann


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Max's mom, you do know a lot. 
Sorry if I confused anyone. In regard to talking to your dog I was referring to at the beginning prior to the birds going down. Once the judge releases you to "send your dog for the marks" you can use a release word to send your dog. After that you can talk to your dog but some judges will limit how much, when and what is said. But they will cover that in their pretest briefing. (I know I am confusing things even more now :doh


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Yes, I kinda figured as much. Just like chasing a tennis ball in the yard bears little resemblance to doing the dumbell retrieve in Open obedience. 

Questions...just making sure I interpret this correctly from the way I read the rules (sometimes I read them the way I WANT them to be)

It's like obedience, you can talk all you want until you say or signal "ready". Correct?
Then you can't say anything until the judge calls your number or says "dog" or similar.
You have the dog lined up facing the bird. The judge says your number or says "dog". Can you now give a hand signal and say "take it" or similar, like you would in the directed retrieve? 
Then when the dog comes back to you, you can say/signal a return to heel without a front?
Then can you repeat the "mark" and "take it" commands before sending to the second bird?
Did this make ANY sense?





AmbikaGR said:


> Barb in "theory" it is similar, but in real life with live/fresh birds it is NOTHING even close. There is NOTHING you can do other than doing it (working with live birds) to simulate it. Trust me on this one!
> Also you can NOT say ANYTHING to the dog from the time you signal you are ready to the time the judge releases you with either your number or the word dog.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

AmbikaGR said:


> Max's mom, you do know a lot.
> Sorry if I confused anyone. In regard to talking to your dog I was referring to at the beginning prior to the birds going down. Once the judge releases you to "send your dog for the marks" you can use a release word to send your dog. After that you can talk to your dog but some judges will limit how much, when and what is said. But they will cover that in their pretest briefing. (I know I am confusing things even more now :doh


Thanks for clarifying. I have taught Teddi a "get it" command so I was thinking I needed to figure out how to silently release her. Same with Belle but this is a golden forum so I use Teddi as my example. I actually think she will be better than Belle at this, but Belle is good. She just won't do well on a memory mark. Once she brings something back, she wants us to throw something new. Work to be done. Then there is our new little one Quinn who is very birdy at 10 weeks. We are going to have SERIOUS fun! 

Ann


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

That's going to be my biggest issue I have to figure out before I do a WC....Conner is trained in obedience not to pivot with me unless I give him a command. So I guess I'll have to fix him in one position for doubles.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Loisiana said:


> That's going to be my biggest issue I have to figure out before I do a WC....Conner is trained in obedience not to pivot with me unless I give him a command. So I guess I'll have to fix him in one position for doubles.


I have seen many people do this. After showing both stations they set the dog lined up between the two marks.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> Yes, I kinda figured as much. Just like chasing a tennis ball in the yard bears little resemblance to doing the dumbell retrieve in Open obedience.
> 
> Questions...just making sure I interpret this correctly from the way I read the rules (sometimes I read them the way I WANT them to be)
> 
> ...


Yes to all of that.

In a WC since you can (and should) hold the collar, you can physically (not roughly) turn the dog to face the go-bird, if he doesn't turn with you. Many times they do NOT use a duck call as an attention getter, and half the time they shoot as the bird is in the air, so if the dog doesn't turn and immediately see the bird, he might miss the mark altogether.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

so I can gently guide his body and/or head to look at the go-bird? (not meaning whacking him upside the head of course : )



K9-Design said:


> Yes to all of that.
> 
> In a WC since you can (and should) hold the collar, you can physically (not roughly) turn the dog to face the go-bird, if he doesn't turn with you. Many times they do NOT use a duck call as an attention getter, and half the time they shoot as the bird is in the air, so if the dog doesn't turn and immediately see the bird, he might miss the mark altogether.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

You can gently guide by the collar.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Here are some points from when I did the WC.

Pigeons were used on land and ducks in the water (your premium should tell you what birds will be used). Our double was two short marks in tall grass (I think it was alfalfa). Our water was two singles, one was across a pond on the very edge of the water and the other included an angled entry (most dogs cheated on the way back, which was still fine as long at they did not drop the bird) They used pink survey ribbon to mark “the line” which was a few feet in any direction. To pass the dog just needed to bring the bird to “the line” although I cannot remember any dogs who did not deliver to hand.

Most of the dogs went out on the land series. From what I noticed it seemed most went out due to switching. There may have been one or two who would not go and/or would simply not pick up the bird. Only one dog who went on to water did not pass, and that was because he/she would not get in.

You cannot talk to your dog once you send them until they pick up the bird, once person was dropped for saying “fetch it up”. You also cannot talk to them once you call for the birds until you send them.

For the mechanics of the test, the gunners shot a gun then threw the bird. There was no duck call or “hey hey” before. During the briefing you need to ask any questions you may have, I would specifically ask what the judges interpretation of “gently guiding” is.

Don’t send your dog before they call you number! (I almost did)

Have fun!!!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Sorry for all the stoopid questions, but can you clarify this?
The person who was dropped for saying "fetch it up" did so _after_ the dog had headed out? Is that why they were dropped? 
Can you say something in order to send them out, though? So if the dog were sitting next to you waiting to be sent, you could say "fetch it up" to send the dog out?





sammydog said:


> You cannot talk to your dog once you send them until they pick up the bird, once person was dropped for saying “fetch it up”. You also cannot talk to them once you call for the birds until you send them.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> Sorry for all the stoopid questions, but can you clarify this?
> The person who was dropped for saying "fetch it up" did so _after_ the dog had headed out? Is that why they were dropped?
> Can you say something in order to send them out, though? So if the dog were sitting next to you waiting to be sent, you could say "fetch it up" to send the dog out?


Not a stupid question at all.
This is the one "rule" I see vary the most from judge to judge. A WC/WCX is a marking test and thus there is NO handling involved. Some judges interpret the talking to the dog after being sent but before getting to the mark as handling. So yes I would believe that a gog was dropped for saying fetch it up after he headed out. Once the judgesays dog/number and before it leaves the handler's side you can talk to the dog, but once the dog has lleft the handler's side and till it picks up the mark the handller should not say anything.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Sorry I should have been more clear about that! It was after they sent the dog while it was hunting for the bird...


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

thanks for the clarifications guys!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Okay, so once you send your dog (I use his name) and he picks up the bird and delivers, I cannot give him a verbal command to heel for the next mark? WC is new to me, but I would really like to find one around here to try.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

You can talk to him again when you are lining him up for the memory bird, but again should not talk to him once you send him until after he has picked the memory bird up


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Speaking of sending the dog on his name....do you think that might confuse dogs who also do obedience? Just curious. I thought I might send him with "take it", which is what we use for our retrieve of various items. Thoughts?




DNL2448 said:


> Okay, so once you send your dog (I use his name) and he picks up the bird and delivers, I cannot give him a verbal command to heel for the next mark? WC is new to me, but I would really like to find one around here to try.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

I don't have any confusion with Ruby. I *do* have to be really, really careful on the WCX honor not to say "Ruby, heel" when it's finished. I need to just say "heel".

I hear a lot of non-field people just say "take it", so no one would think twice if they heard you say that.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I use "take it."


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Trust me once the dog is sent on his name about, oh, twice, they don't need any more reminders. No confusion.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

LOL, that's my concern...he won't need any reminders! He'll start going on his name in obedience! We're working on UDX legs, and I can see him taking off on his name all the time. I tend to preceed his commands with his name.




K9-Design said:


> Trust me once the dog is sent on his name about, oh, twice, they don't need any more reminders. No confusion.


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