# What are the costs of showing and breeding?



## ataylor (Dec 28, 2008)

MillysMom said:


> I have been wondering what a realistic analysis of showing and breeding dogs is. I'm most interested in showing, bucurious about breeding too. I've read numerous times how expensive both showing and breeding are, but have not been able to find a run down on what sort of investment it is. I remember someone posted (can't remember who) that they'd be willing to give a run down on costs of showing, so whoever that was... please chime in!
> 
> I am very interested in getting into showing, and just want to have some sort of sense as to what it would cost and honestly, what all goes into it? My best friend since kindergarten has corgis that are show dogs, but they always use a handler. The dogs are all like pets/farm dogs until it is "show time" and then they go live with the handler for a few months at a time. So, I don't think that is a realistic representation of what owning a show dog is like.
> 
> What sort of entry fees are there? Travel costs? Training? Hiring a handler vs. handling yourself? Is it hard to find a mentor? Grooming (where do you find a groomer and if you do it yourself how long does it take to learn--what will the supplies cost like grooming table, sheers, all the brushes, dryers, etc)? How much do clearances cost to have done? Like I said before, I am most interested in showing, but I would like to know about breeding costs as well.


 
First you dog has to be registered. The cost for a show in the AKC is $25 per day. The travel cost can vary to where the show is held. Training cost can also vary. The place where I train is only $5 per handler. Different professional handlers have a different price range. It usually ranges from $50 to $100. If you dog does well, lets say Group 1, there will be a bonus for the handler and that can range around $100. The professional handlers will mostly be doing the grooming. So, there will be a grooming fee around $15 to $75.

If you decide to handle yourself, you can groom you dog yourself or you can bring them to a local groomer. I do the handling and grooming for my two Goldens. It did not take me long to learn how to groom. I taught myself first then went to a professional for a little more training. The cost for all of the supplies can cost around $200-$300. It all depends on the company because they all have different prices.

If you decide to handle you Golden, you don't have to groom it. It is just best to know how. When handling your own dog, you have a stronger bond between them. The best thing is that you don't have to pay a handling fee!

If a professional handler is your choice, good. They have TONS of experience with shows and breeds. The problem is that they may take your dog from you for a month or two for training.

In my own opinion, I like to do the hadling myself because I believe that it is more fun. You interact with your dog more. And you gain a lot of experience. 

Clearance can be expensive. I don't remember what the exact price was, but if I remember correctly, the hips were about $500.

Breeding Goldens is pretty expensive. You first have to get all of the clearances done, you have to pay the stud fee (if you own the bitch) and you have to pay for the vet bills. You don't get a whole lot of profit out of it.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

You certainly don't make anything in the end money wise! In addition to the regular care and time of the dog, you'd have to pay for grooming or learn it, show fees, travel and so on - it can totally vary, you could finish a dog quickly and be done or campain for points and be showing every weekend. Travel yourself or send the dog off with a handler. 

Breeding, there's all of the above, plus health clearances, stud fees, 8-10 puppies who eat non stop (and poop and pee everywhere), 8-10 puppy owners with a million questions who will want to come and visit your house often for 2 months and stay, eat and make a mess, hours of cleaning and caring for puppies, stress and worry with finding good homes and then the unexpected things that can happen to older dogs you've produced. Hard to put an exact number on the cost and expenses.

My breeder for example had a dog 'returned' because she had a lump, so out of the blue she had a dog with surgery bills and aftercare, then the job of feeding and caring for her till she rehomed her. Things like that happen and it's part of being a breeder to look after the dogs for life if need be. She also went through three girls before breeding a litter as well.

Sorry, not quite a clear answer....

Lana


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

It is very expensive to finish a Golden, unless the stars are aligned totally in your favor and the dog finishes fast. In order to be competitive you realistically need to plan on the dog being in the rings 2-3 weekends a month. Conservatively, you are looking at anywhere from $300-$500 per weekend for entries, gas, hotels, and food if you handle your own dog. You can show an individual dog for anywhere from a year to 2 or more without finishing. To be competitive, the dog must be groomed exceptionally well, which you can learn to do yourself in time. Decent grooming equipment will cost you close to $1000.00, conservatively, for scissors, combs, brushes, products, collar and lead. Handling classes, or a good mentor, are a must in order to present the dog well. Most exhibitors are in a class with dogs at least once a week. 
If you choose to have a handler show your dog, an average (conservative) estimate is $1200.00 per month excluding entry fees, which you can estimate at $200 per month if the dog is shown every weekend. This is to have the dog "out" with the handler (living with him/her while being shown). *This CAN be "cheaper" than doing it yourself with a good handler who likely will finish the dog quicker than you can yourself. 
"Ringside pick-ups" can be $100 per show, if the dog is already perfectly groomed and ring ready. Add approx $75 if the handler needs to groom first. This is on top of your gas, hotel, food, entries, etc for a weekend.

Breeding costs vary, with clearances being close to $1000.00 If you have to travel for eyes, cardiac, or even hip/elbow clearances and have to spend a night (as we do to have eyes and then cardiac clearances done) add travel/lodging to the cost of the clearances, and remember that eyes need to be done annually.
Stud service = $1000 and up
Shipping bitch to stud dog if a live breeding to be done = minimum of $600 to fly, or whatever gas/travel/lodging/food might be if you drive her.
Progesterone testing, AI's, surgical if being done = $500
Have a minimum of $1000 in the bank in case a c-section is required.
You may have advertising costs. Cost of a whelping box and equipment. Vet checks including ultrasound to confirm pregnancy, radiographs to determine number of puppies. Shots for puppies. 

It's expensive if "done right".


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

If anyone ever kept track of how much it cost to finish ONE golden retriever in the US -- they would never show a dog again! aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Once I heard someone say that for a golden it costs about $1000 per point to finish the dog. This is a conservative estimate.
Unless you've got a stupendously in-demand stud dog OR poor ethics that let you cut corners, you are never going to get out of the red showing or breeding dogs on a small-time scale. 
It is fun though


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

K9-Design said:


> If anyone ever kept track of how much it cost to finish ONE golden retriever in the US -- they would never show a dog again! aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
> Once I heard someone say that for a golden it costs about $1000 per point to finish the dog. This is a conservative estimate.
> Unless you've got a stupendously in-demand stud dog OR poor ethics that let you cut corners, you are never going to get out of the red showing or breeding dogs on a small-time scale.
> It is fun though


It's a disease. Without a 12-step Program.


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## hdonnelly (Feb 11, 2008)

I've also heard:
Yeah, there's money in dogs....mine!

I have to agree with all of this. It really depends on what your goals are. If you just want to show your dog all you need is the $28 entry, a lead and gas money, but if you want to be competitive and complete a championship it is a serious financial commitment whether you hire a handler or do it yourself. Use your money wisely and wait until the dog is ready. For some dogs that's 6 mos and for others it's five years. It helps to have a mentor who can help you determine when that time is as sometimes we don't see our own dogs the same way we see others.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

The only dog I ever showed more than a few times was Rigby. I was a teenager and I was lucky I was able to ride along for free with his breeders and not pay for anything but entries and my own McDonald's meals. I was so excited at shows that I usually only ate once a day! lol

I groomed him myself (but we're talking a Whippet here, any idiot can show groom a Whippet provided the dog is well behaved for it which mine is exceptionally so). 

I have never actively shown a dog since then- and money is why. While we could afford it now if we wanted to, neither of us as any interest in spending money on that. I can live without it easily and he HATES dog shows with a red passion. 

I can't even imagine how bad the expenses are with Goldens! Whippets have gotten very tough, but even so, they're not as bad as Goldens. Plus, you can ge away without grooming supplies, grooming table, etc with Whippets. IMO clothes are a big thing with Goldens, too. You've got to buy nice business like clothes and do your hair and makeup and LOOK like a handler. I could never pull that off! I don't ever EVER wear makeup or "do" my hair, and I don't own a single "business" type outfit.

So, as everyone says- it's VERY costly!


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

Even obedience and agility shows are expensive. By the time you are in deep, you are doing 2 entries a day (so figure 100-150 bucks for a weekend in entries), a hotel, food, etc. 

Then there is the stuff....Oh man. My husband thought I was crazy when I started explaining why I needed ANOTHER crate (the soft one) for trials. Then you talk about the training equipment, the collars, the lessons, the classes, the books, the seminars, the videos, 12 different types of bait you buy just in case she likes this one better, the special show outfit, etc.


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## MillysMom (Nov 5, 2008)

Thanks so much for the responses. I knew it was expensive, but really was not sure HOW expensive. I still am very interested in getting involved in showing, but will need to give it some more thought. I grew up riding, training and showing horses which is ridiculously expensive. My goal with every horse I owned was to break even when I sold it--that rarely happened. I know that I'm not at a place in my life to afford horses, but I so miss the show ring, the grooming, the training, the prep work, the dedication, and the bonding with an animal that was all necessary for those 2 minutes in the show ring soooo much (I know, I'm a bit crazy!). Now that I'm living in a metropolitan area it seems that dogs are really the next best thing. 

There are so many things that have been mentioned that I never would have thought of--like the handler's appearance! Or, that it could be "cheaper" to send your dog to a handler than trying to do it all yourself. 

Does anyone have advice for the best ways to get into this expensive and addictive hobby?


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## historicprim (Nov 24, 2007)

To give an example of the costs involved in handling classes;
One year of six week classes at $130. per session totals $1,170 plus your leads and bait. My husband has been at it for a year now and will continue to go for a very long time. It may be cheaper in your area. Most of the people in class are seasoned owner/handlers, but they are there every week.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

MillysMom said:


> Does anyone have advice for the best ways to get into this expensive and addictive hobby?


Actually if you read what you wrote below I think hat is the best answer to your question.



MillysMom said:


> I know that I'm not at a place in my life to afford horses, but I so miss the show ring, the grooming, the training, the prep work, the dedication, and the bonding with an animal that was all necessary for those 2 minutes in the show ring soooo much (I know, I'm a bit crazy!). Now that I'm living in a metropolitan area it seems that dogs are really the next best thing.


Do this and have fun with it. It is exactly what I did with my Keeper. If I had a dime fo every time someone told me "If you put her with a handler she could finish" I probably would have had enough money to send her with that handler. But that really was not THE important part. I truly enjoyed the grooming, showing and friendships I built while in the ring. had a blast, my Keeper LOVED it and it did not cost me a fortune. Over that time I was lucky to look on a number of people who were willing to mentor me and show me he ropes with grooming and handling.


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

Although I've been training/trialling for over 35 years, Nyg is my 1st conformation dog. To obedience people, conformation people were "those people with their noses stuck high in the air who think their dogs are better than ours". Well, it's not like that at all!

Nyg entered his first shows in October 2007 and finished his Canadian championship in March 2008. We attended 4 separate show venues with a total of 12 shows (2 shows as a Special)

We did use a handler but travelled to all but one of Nyg's shows. While we were at shows, we were put to work by the handler - parking vans, bringing dogs into the show, carrying "stuff", grooming, taking dogs to & from rings, taking dogs for pee breaks, etc, etc. I learned a lot, got to know a lot of really nice people (hey, there are jerks everywhere) and looked forward to each & every show. 

Is it expensive? Yes, it is but I enjoy it & it's a hobby - I don't smoke & don't drink (much) Firstly, there are the show entry fees, the extra s/c for booking on-line or phone, the motels, meals (I always take a cooler & drinks), travel (I live at least 2 hours from any show venues), the cell phone charges to call your breeder/hubby/family, and all of the supplies. As well, you have to buy yourself a "golden retriever" pin to let everyone know what breed you're involved with & that special toy for your furkid who did soooo well.....

I write all my expenses down to "I love it & I'm worth it!"

So, Nyg is off to obedience trials in April with those snotty obedience people::: and Razz will be with those "nose in the air" conformation people in the summer!:wavey::wavey::wavey:


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

MillysMom said:


> Thanks so much for the responses. I knew it was expensive, but really was not sure HOW expensive. I still am very interested in getting involved in showing, but will need to give it some more thought. I grew up riding, training and showing horses which is ridiculously expensive. My goal with every horse I owned was to break even when I sold it--that rarely happened. I know that I'm not at a place in my life to afford horses, but I so miss the show ring, the grooming, the training, the prep work, the dedication, and the bonding with an animal that was all necessary for those 2 minutes in the show ring soooo much (I know, I'm a bit crazy!). Now that I'm living in a metropolitan area it seems that dogs are really the next best thing.
> 
> There are so many things that have been mentioned that I never would have thought of--like the handler's appearance! Or, that it could be "cheaper" to send your dog to a handler than trying to do it all yourself.
> 
> Does anyone have advice for the best ways to get into this expensive and addictive hobby?


Better advice would be how to stay OUT of it!  I showed horses for years before showing dogs. Thinking the dogs would be "cheaper". HA!
I've looked at a couple of horses recently, thinking I'd buy one "just to ride". My husband knows me too well. He said "Oh no you wouldn't... You'd have to show again."


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## hdonnelly (Feb 11, 2008)

If you've come from horses you certainly have a good idea as to what you'd be getting into. I love being a breeder owner handler. It's tremendously rewarding on so many levels, so I don't want to discourage you from taking that route. As Gwen had posted, you can learn alot from "working" for another breeder or handler at shows or at their kennels conditioning dogs for the ring. That way you can get a better idea as to what's involved and how you want to approach the sport. If you don't already have a dog to work with, it will help you determine which breeders you might be interested in acquiring a dog from. You can also narrow down what kind of equipment ( grooming table with adjustable or static legs, what type of dryer you are most comfortable with, etc. ) fits your needs best before you purchase. Sometimes you can find things on Craigslist or Ebay, but they are only worth it if they fit your needs. Join your local Golden Retriever Club and attend as many meetings as you can. It's a great learning opportunity. There are handling and grooming workshops available that provide more intense training opportunities. The Golden Breeders Resource website and the AKC Gazette magazine have lists of programs and your local GR club may list local offerings in their newsletters or website. I had a great experience at a George Alston handling 2 day workshop years ago and I'll be going to a 2 day Erik Strickland grooming and handling seminar next month.


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## MillysMom (Nov 5, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> Better advice would be how to stay OUT of it!  I showed horses for years before showing dogs. Thinking the dogs would be "cheaper". HA!
> I've looked at a couple of horses recently, thinking I'd buy one "just to ride". My husband knows me too well. He said "Oh no you wouldn't... You'd have to show again."


Your husband sounds like my boyfriend and my parents! I was looking at horses a year ago for "just riding" and quickly noticed I kept going to the green beans that were fancier and had more potential as show horses. So much for "just riding!"

I don't have a registered golden (my girl is the local SPCA special... and she is perfect), and I am taking my time researching what I want in a breeder and a puppy. I would like to have at least 2 dogs at all times from now on, and am hoping to get a puppy in 2009 and then another whenever Milly goes to the bridge (which hopefully will be a long time from now, but she is nine) or when I buy a house (whichever comes first). Obviously, I'm not ready for two puppies at once... so don't worry, that isn't the plan.

I'd like to start learning as much as possible as quickly as possible. What a great idea to do grooming and/or handling seminars, and to find a kennel to work for. I have already started experimenting with various grooming techniques I've read about on Milly (she is a great guinea pig), but I really do need some hands on instruction (and to invest in actual proper grooming tools). 

On the to do list: Join local GR club, go watch some shows and try and find a kennel that would like some free labor on weekends. When I was a very little girl my mom wanted to get into breeding race horses... she found a wonderful farm with a superb breeding program and took three weeks to go live and learn everything possible. The farm was thrilled to have free labor, and she learned a ton. It would be great to be able to do something similar with a golden breeder and/or handler.


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## hdonnelly (Feb 11, 2008)

Gwen, I can't pm you as I don't have enough posts, but here you go.....Yankee GRC is hosting Erik Strickland - in Massachusetts. Check his website www.stricklandsensations.com as his lists his travel on there and there could be something closer for you. Do buy his DVD set if you haven't yet. I found it really helpful. I've watched it several times (4.5 hours long, thank you) to try to get all the detail and review parts I had questions on. He's a good instructor and I found it very beneficial for beginner and experienced groomers. 

HTH

Heather


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

hdonnelly said:


> Gwen, I can't pm you as I don't have enough posts, but here you go.....Yankee GRC is hosting Erik Strickland - in Massachusetts. Check his website www.stricklandsensations.com as his lists his travel on there and there could be something closer for you. Do buy his DVD set if you haven't yet. I found it really helpful. I've watched it several times (4.5 hours long, thank you) to try to get all the detail and review parts I had questions on. He's a good instructor and I found it very beneficial for beginner and experienced groomers.
> 
> HTH
> 
> Heather


 
Heather, 

Thanks for this information. I did check the site but, unfortunately, nothing even close to Ontario. I am taking a day handling course with a professional handler/CKC judge on March 14th but looking for professional grooming assistance.

I will keep my eyes on Eric's site to see if he's going to be close!


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

What do you folks mean by "Finishing A Golden". Is that the stage where they have won enough to get their AM CH designation?


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

NuttinButGoldens said:


> What do you folks mean by "Finishing A Golden". Is that the stage where they have won enough to get their AM CH designation?


Exactly. They have earned the require 15 points which includes 2 sets of "majors" - wins of 3, 4 or 5 points at one show.


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## molmotta (May 22, 2005)

AmbikaGR said:


> Do this and have fun with it. It is exactly what I did with my Keeper. If I had a dime fo every time someone told me "If you put her with a handler she could finish" I probably would have had enough money to send her with that handler. But that really was not THE important part. I truly enjoyed the grooming, showing and friendships I built while in the ring. had a blast, my Keeper LOVED it and it did not cost me a fortune. Over that time I was lucky to look on a number of people who were willing to mentor me and show me he ropes with grooming and handling.


I'm with you on this. I realised that when people get truly competitive in this sport, that's when it gets ugly and greed sets in. Winning Winners is never enough anymore, it has to be BOB, then it has to be Group, and Show.

I always remind myself that I must not get to be like that. It spoils the fun and destroys the reason why I went into conformation in the first place. I'm not in this to make money from selling a CH titled dog or from breeding puppies. I love being with them, learning about them, learning how to improve myself in the ring. 

With that said, sure I am human too. I do get frustrated and depressed when my dogs dont win. But at the end of the day, I look at them and they tell me, "Its OK. I love spending time with you." That is enough to make everything alright again. 

The cost of showing as a hobbyist? PRICELESS...


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

what an excellent post. thank you.




molmotta said:


> I'm with you on this. I realised that when people get truly competitive in this sport, that's when it gets ugly and greed sets in. Winning Winners is never enough anymore, it has to be BOB, then it has to be Group, and Show.
> 
> I always remind myself that I must not get to be like that. It spoils the fun and destroys the reason why I went into conformation in the first place. I'm not in this to make money from selling a CH titled dog or from breeding puppies. I love being with them, learning about them, learning how to improve myself in the ring.
> 
> ...


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

molmotta said:


> I'm with you on this. I realised that when people get truly competitive in this sport, that's when it gets ugly and greed sets in. Winning Winners is never enough anymore, it has to be BOB, then it has to be Group, and Show.


 
I will *NEVER *forget the time that an aquaintance was passing around their photo they had taken when their dog had taken a Group 2 and I actually heard someone utter


"Why would anyone want a photo of when they got *BEAT!*"


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

AmbikaGR said:


> I will *NEVER *forget the time that an aquaintance was passing around their photo they had taken when their dog had taken a Group 2 and I actually heard someone utter
> 
> 
> "Why would anyone want a photo of when they got *BEAT!*"


 
?????!!!!! I'm happy to even BE in the group. If I make a cut I'm thrilled. If I PLACE I'm over the top. The few times I have WON a group 911 was called. 
If that feeling ever goes away, I'm not showing anymore.


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> ?????!!!!! I'm happy to even BE in the group. If I make a cut I'm thrilled. If I PLACE I'm over the top. The few times I have WON a group 911 was called.
> If that feeling ever goes away, I'm not showing anymore.


Nicely said. Later this year, I'm taking on my first real conformation project. So even winning a class would make me jump up and down! I'm easy to please lol.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Before I met Gini, I was way too intense about winning. I felt badly if my dogs didn't do well and would apologize to her if hers didn't win or "just" placed. She always said "WHAT are you talking about? They were the prettiest dogs in the ring! They were wonderful! I'm so proud of them." She was always able to put things back into perspective for me, and I was happy, as a breeder, if a better dog won.


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

It's nice to have a mentor. I am lucky to sorta have the availability of so many Conformation mentors on GRF.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

Are they generally retired at this point?



Pointgold said:


> Exactly. They have earned the require 15 points which includes 2 sets of "majors" - wins of 3, 4 or 5 points at one show.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Wow, Rigby's group 2 win still makes me smile broadly, and it was more than a decade ago- 11 years ago this month, almost to the day, to be exact! I will never forget the excitement of that day, seeing my baby puppy win over specials then get a group 2! I agree, if that fails to make you smile anymore- its probably time to give it a break.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

NuttinButGoldens said:


> Are they generally retired at this point?


 
No. Depending on how old they are when they finish, many owners elect to "Special" them - continue showing them as a champion, entered in Best of Breed, hoping to earn breed wins and points, and group wins and placements, towards SDHF (Show Dog Hall of Fame) status. Ya wanna tawk expensive...:doh:


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> No. Depending on how old they are when they finish, many owners elect to "Special" them - continue showing them as a champion, entered in Best of Breed, hoping to earn breed wins and points, and group wins and placements, towards SDHF (Show Dog Hall of Fame) status. Ya wanna tawk expensive...:doh:


I recently went to dinner with two breeders who's dogs (dogs they have bred - owned by someone else) have won Westminster and the Eukanuba animal planet show - neither were golden breeders - obviously 

This was just before westminster this year and the topic of costs associated with campaigning one of those big-time dogs came up. So I asked - because I do that kind of thing - what did it cost to campaign one of those big-time dogs for a year. Let's just say I almost fell off my chair and choked on my steak. 

Erica


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I hear ya. Usually, there is a backer involved with the top dogs. Many of the top pro handlers have relationships with these backers, who wait until the handler tells them they have "found a dog for them". A contract agreed upon and a budget set. For example, dog will be out and campaigned for 2 years with a budget of $250,000, which covers entries, travel, handling and advertising.


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## molmotta (May 22, 2005)

Pointgold said:


> I hear ya. Usually, there is a backer involved with the top dogs. Many of the top pro handlers have relationships with these backers, who wait until the handler tells them they have "found a dog for them". A contract agreed upon and a budget set. For example, dog will be out and campaigned for 2 years with a budget of $250,000, which covers entries, travel, handling and advertising.


I rather use that money to buy a bigger house with a big garden for the dogs to romp... :


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## twogoldenboys (Mar 3, 2008)

hdonnelly said:


> I've also heard:
> Yeah, there's money in dogs....mine!
> 
> I have to agree with all of this. It really depends on what your goals are. If you just want to show your dog all you need is the $28 entry, a lead and gas money, but if you want to be competitive and complete a championship it is a serious financial commitment whether you hire a handler or do it yourself. Use your money wisely and wait until the dog is ready. For some dogs that's 6 mos and for others it's five years. It helps to have a mentor who can help you determine when that time is as sometimes we don't see our own dogs the same way we see others.


I'm fairly new to the show ring myself and having a dog that is ready is key. I've gotten a lot of great advice about getting in to this sport, but if your dog isn't ready, it can be a waste of money. Fargo and I will enter shows here and there that are close to home for the experience and I'll enter him in "B" matches, which don't count for points, but great for experience. But I'm really going to wait until he is emotionally and physically ready to take him out competively. He's only 10 months old and nice, but not spectacular, not now anyway!!


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