# Blood Lines Question regarding Top Brass Lines



## Mnfireguy (Mar 21, 2012)

Hello All,

My family and I are adding a Golden puppy to our family. In my research and many conversations with various breeders, I have come across a common theme which prompted me to post to this forum. I have been told by breeders who have Top Brass in their lines and those who do not that the Golden Retriever lines have been over-bred with the American Top Brass Line which can lead to shorter life expectancies and various health issues. Can someone please explain this issue to me? I'd like hear from folks like you with a lot more experience and knowledge regarding Golden Retrievers and the history of the breed.

Thank you in advance for your candid and objective responses.

Respectfully,
MnFireGuy


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

There are a _lot_ of Topbrass goldens out there. 

Some are bred by AWESOME breeders who are breeding for health and ability..

Some goldens with Topbrass behind them are bred by bybs who are throwing whatever they can together to produce puppies to sell. <- Our Charmy was one of those. The reason why his life was so short was because there were no health checks or anything prior to the breeding and of course it was a father/daughter breeding.


----------



## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

My boy has Top Brass in him. I got my boy from Top Flight Kennels and they are excellent breeders. They match the best dogs to produce good working dogs.
Pedigree: Top Flight's Reap What You Sow

I odnt know if Top Flight has any pups left. She didnt advertise this time and I think she said she had one or two pups left.
Top Flight Golden Retrievers - Wisconsin


----------



## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

Mnfireguy said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I have been told by breeders who have Top Brass in their lines and those who do not that the Golden Retriever lines have been over-bred with the American Top Brass Line which can lead to shorter life expectancies and various health issues.
> 
> ...



I'm a little interested in what breeders have told you this, and just wondering if they have data to back up these claims. I'm not sure if the information is valid or not.


----------



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

The average life expectancy of a male golden is 10.75 years, of a female it's 11.25 years. I'm not aware that TopBrass has any worse than the average.
I would suggest you contact Jackie Mertens (www.topbrass-retrievers.com) directly and ask her. She will be very upfront with you.


----------



## Goldens R Great (Aug 19, 2010)

I bought my golden girl, Addy, from Jackie Mertens of Topbrass. Addy was 13 years and 9 months old when she passed away in January of 2011. She was very active and healthy the majority of her life and had an excellent temperament. She was a great girl. I miss her tons so just had to share some photos of her later in life.


----------



## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> The average life expectancy of a male golden is 10.75 years, of a female it's 11.25 years. I'm not aware that TopBrass has any worse than the average.
> I would suggest you contact Jackie Mertens (www.topbrass-retrievers.com) directly and ask her. She will be very upfront with you.


My Tess made it to 11, my Libby is 10 1/2 and still going strong. Both Topbrass dogs. Thanks for putting the link to Jackie here, Barb. I am sure she would answer any and all questions and concerns that the Op has.


----------



## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

Goldens R Great said:


> I bought my golden girl, Addy, from Jackie Mertens of Topbrass. Addy was 13 years and 9 months old when she passed away in January of 2011. She was very active and healthy the majority of her life and had an excellent temperament. She was a great girl. I miss her tons so just had to share some photos of her later in life.


Beautiful and grand girl you had. I am sorry you lost her, but glad she had such a long and healthy life.


----------



## Goldens R Great (Aug 19, 2010)

my4goldens said:


> Beautiful and grand girl you had. I am sorry you lost her, but glad she had such a long and healthy life.


Thank you so much! We never have them long enough do we? Yet I'm so appreciative I had her as long as I did.


----------



## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Topbrass Retrievers has a long history of success. So much so that there are numerous unscupulous folks who like to take advantage of an unsuspecting marketplace by breeding dogs under a similar name Top Brass, Topbras, Topbrazz, Topbraz, etc. The quality is not the same. 


Topbrass has produced some dogs with very long healthy lives. This one is thirteen years old and is still taking her regular turn in the field chasing ringnecks.


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Virtually any and every long time Golden kennel who has bred many litters and then had others incorporate this line into theirs has experienced problems over the years. So if a dog develops an issue and others look at the pedigree and see a recognizable kennel name some will then assume and condemn, unjustifiably, that as the problem in the pedigree. I personally would put no credence into what you have heard.


----------



## mears (Sep 29, 2011)

Such beautiful eyes!


----------



## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

AmbikaGR said:


> Virtually any and every long time Golden kennel who has bred many litters and then had others incorporate this line into theirs has experienced problems over the years. So if a dog develops an issue and others look at the pedigree and see a recognizable kennel name some will then assume and condemn, unjustifiably, that as the problem in the pedigree. I personally would put no credence into what you have heard.


What he said 

I am not aware of any issues specifically with Topbrass. Every breeder who breeds more than 1 or 2 litters is going to produce some problems-it's the nature of breeding and the nature of breeding Goldens. But I have not heard of Topbrass producing any more issues than any other breeder.


----------



## Mnfireguy (Mar 21, 2012)

*Thank You to Everyone!!!*

I'd like to say thank you to everyone who responded to my post. Your objective and direct responses are greatly appreciated. I also appreciate your understanding of my naiveness to the Breed and history. Your patience is greatly appreciated!

Most respectfully,

MnFireGuy


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

When you have a breeder as popular, influential, and long-running as Topbrass, you're going to have a _lot_ of dogs. It's possible that the person who told you has had some bad experiences with a handful of dogs related to Topbrass dogs and is merely working off their personal experience. That doesn't tell you much about the name. Certainly nobody's done a study of Topbrass dogs relative to GRs in general and statistically examined longevity.

As always, your best bet is to look at the pedigree of the actual litter you're considering and go back through the ancestry (including siblings) to look at longevity. That's really the only useful thing (besides clearances, obviously) you can do when trying to breed or buy a long-lived dog.

K9data is great for this, thought not everybody is rigorous about putting death dates and CODs in, so the information is frequently incomplete. Still, you can get an incredible look at an individual dog very quickly. For example, here's my dog Comet's vertical pedigree with longevity information. The vertical pedigree shows you siblings. Here's his five generation (not vertical) pedigree with longevity info.

Lots of rumors go around about breeders, and the more famous they are, the more rumors go around. Unless somebody has a specific experience or dataset to show you, I'd ignore the rumor.


----------



## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I'm perplexed by what you heard. I think of Topbrass as producing long-lived dogs overall. Paws is a very old girl now, and still going strong (AFC Topbrass Pawsability OD FDHF (8/16/199.


----------



## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Our Trooper came from Topbrass. A healthbag of issues from hips to seizures. With that said - he was the smartest dog EVER, the sweetest dog EVER. What would I give just to have him back. He licked my hand with his last breath close to 13 years of age.


----------



## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

double post


----------



## David Hawk (Jul 17, 2018)

*long life*

Our Golden Gator was a son of Zeke who died of cancer at 5.5 and was a TopBrass golden. Gator lived into his fifteenth year. His best hunting partner was our German shorhair named Boz. One would point, one would flush and both wanted to retrieve. Each got one end of the courch and watched television together. David Hawk, Boise, Idaho


----------

