# Can dog aggressive dogs become therapy dogs?



## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

I have been battling with this question for quite a while now. Sometimes you meet certified therapy dogs, that do not well with other dogs. In our hospital there is a Shih Tzu, that does not like other dogs. As we have the policy, that only one dog should be on a floor, that is not a problem. He likes Tess, so even if we meet him, we are fine. 
However....there is another guy I know with a huge Akita. The dog is awesome with people, especially kids. But it attacks other male dogs, big or small. Last Saturday I was at a big event with about 70 therapy dogs. The Akita was there, luckily kept apart by its owner, but still it growled (bare teeth) at three dogs while I was near it. And another therapy dog attacked another dog, because it was sniffing its behind. The only thing the owner said was: "he doesn't like it if dogs sneak up from behind." 
I have been approached by a journalist about my experiences in Newtown and my ideas about the value of Therapy dogs. One thing I have told him, is that for me the extra value is, that therapy dogs are SAFE...100%. So even when there are a lot of dogs, they are safe to be around, for humans and dogs. But it seems, that reality doesn't agree with me.
Sorry for the rant, but I really would like to get some opinions on this: can a dog be a therapy dog even when it does not like other dogs?


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

I personally think therapy dogs should be unflappable, but maybe that's just me?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Inge - are therapy dogs retested every year to ensure the owners have kept up the socialization and training?


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

Megora said:


> Inge - are therapy dogs retested every year to ensure the owners have kept up the socialization and training?


As far as I know, Pet Partners is the only organization that request retesting every two years. If you think how many people are certified by the other big (and small) organizations....


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Megora said:


> Inge - are therapy dogs retested every year to ensure the owners have kept up the socialization and training?


I do believe that is dependent on who you are certified with.


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Personally I would say that in general no they shouldn't be. But for some situations with the right dog and the right owner it would potentially be ok, although I personally would never do it nor recommend it.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

There are settings where a therapy dog won't be expected to encounter other dogs and being dog aggressive wouldn't seem to be a problem. However, in my opinion, a good therapy dog should have that self confident but unflappable temperament that can meet unexpected people, animals, machinery, whatever, without becoming fearful or aggressive. To my mind, taking a dog with aggressive tendencies into a therapy setting is asking for trouble.

I suppose my opinion is flavored by the fact that Zoe was Delta/Pet Partner certified, but I feel that periodic retesting is important since a dog's suitability for therapy work may change over time because of changes in their heath, experiences etc.


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## Ripley16 (Jan 26, 2012)

I agree with the others in thinking that a Therapy dog should be unflappable. There can be unforeseen circumstances where they will encounter other dogs even if it is supposed to be a non dog environment. Having a dog go off in that situation could be detrimental


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

The reason why I asked is.... I somewhat think that people should be pushed to keep the training up with their dogs if they are going to be taking them out into public services. 

I don't know if they'd ever encounter another dog in a hospital or on the grounds, but the situation you described sounded like a lot of poorly trained and poorly controlled dogs with owners making excuses for them.

If you have to do a retest every year or two, I would imagine that would keep you as a trainer more focused on not allowing your dog to develop behavioral problems around situations and other dogs. A lot of these behaviors progress over time with lack of exposure and training.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

It seems to me that a therapy dog should be under control at all times, including around other dogs. My opinion is a dog aggressive dog should not be a therapy dog. What if a client/patient should be injured because a dog aggressive dog attacks another dog? A therapy dog should be completely trustworthy.


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

Yeah, I am thinking of a therapy dog getting into it with another dog and redirecting onto a person, which would be a worst case scenario. But even a dog just growing in the general direction of another dog could upset the very people the dogs are there to comfort in the first place.


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

CharlieBear80 said:


> Yeah, I am thinking of a therapy dog getting into it with another dog and redirecting onto a person, which would be a worst case scenario. But even a dog just growing in the general direction of another dog could upset the very people the dogs are there to comfort in the first place.


The hospitals where I volunteer have a strict one dog per floor/ward rule. So incidents should not happen....but the thing is, that with all the publicity around therapy dogs and what they can mean to people, more and more big events are organized where a lot of dogs are. And I think that sometimes people do not realize that although their dog can be excellent one on one with people, he can lose it when there is a crowd around and lots of other dogs. It is so hard to train for that...But I agree, in my opinion therapy dogs should be safe, everywhere, always. And I think next time I am going to speak up when I notice it.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

My previous dog was dog aggressive, yet I used him for therapy work. It would have been much better if he had not been dog aggressive. The people at National Capital Therapy Dogs (A Delta Part Partner affiliate) allowed me to stay in the program despite Coal's dog aggression because I otherwise had good control over him. As long as I kept my distance from other dogs, there would not be a problem. Another therapy dog groups restricted me to visiting places by myself. There was this group, a part of People Animals Love in Washington D.C. that allowed nationally registered therapy dogs to join them during their visits to Walter Reed. Unfortunately, Coal my Lab/GSD lunged at a St. Bernard. He was fine with the other dogs his size and smaller though. I tried to explain that I had trained him so that he at least learned not to go after large breeds his size, but not the Extra Large breeds so much, since they are not as common. We were allowed to finish our visit, but after that I could not be a part of this particular group. Do I believe that dog aggressive dogs are the best candidates for therapy work? No. This is all the more reason I will not have Mercy having ANY dog aggression. Having owned a dog aggressive dog, I think that others should give grace to dog aggressive dogs if they can be trained to behave better and otherwise have excellent manners. I am not okay with dogs having aggression, but I think those who own dogs that they are struggling with dog aggression should receive grace and therapy dog leaders and dog trainers should have more faith in the team and work with them to overcome any difficulties. I am dealing with Mercy growling with other dogs that she is playing with. I am trying to nip this in the bud before it gets worse. The last thing I want is to own a dog aggressive dog. My dreams for Mercy and I are too important and precious for her to have behavioral problems. I am sure since she is young that this aggression that is starting to form can be reversed. I am seeking trainers now to help me nip this in the bud. With that said, I recommend that dog aggressive therapy dogs that are otherwise excellent with people should go solo or at the very least be kept far away from the other dogs on a group visit. Right before I retired Coal, we were visiting a pediatric ward with NCTD with other dogs and did fine since only one dog at a time could go into a patient's room since it is cramped quarters in these rooms.


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

MercyMom said:


> Having owned a dog aggressive dog, I think that others should give grace to dog aggressive dogs if they can be trained to behave better and otherwise have excellent manners. I am not okay with dogs having aggression, but I think those who own dogs that they are struggling with dog aggression should receive grace and therapy dog leaders and dog trainers should have more faith in the team and work with them to overcome any difficulties.


I find this interesting as the owner of an aggressive dog (who has since gone to The Bridge) because I feel the exact opposite. I saw Charlie as my sole responsibility and would not have expected or asked for grace for him from anyone. Aside from the fact that it was my responsibility to keep other people and dogs safe from him, it was also a matter of keeping _him_ safe from himself. If he'd ever gotten into a situation where he hurt another creature, that would have been my fault but others (including my beloved dog) would have had to suffer the consequences right along with me.

There are just so many dogs out there that do not have aggression issues with other dogs that I don't even see the point in taking a risk with one that does. Let the dog aggressive dogs shine in other ways.


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## KeaColorado (Jan 2, 2013)

Our therapy organization required us to take a 6 week group class with other new teams. The dogs didn't have to interact with or play with one another - in fact, it was discouraged. Instead, we practiced having them focus on us in spite of other dogs being around. Kea was already used to this because of her obedience training and competing, but several of the other dogs hadn't taken such a class before, and not all of them had good manners with other dogs. I would not have wanted Kea interacting with them. 

Mercy's Mom, I wouldn't worry too much. Not all dogs like to play with other dogs. Kea will play to a point, but when she's done playing and walks away, if the other dog persists, she will growl. That seems like normal dog behavior to me and is very different from attacking another dog unprovoked or being unable to train or work around another dog. She prefers to ignore other dogs altogether, and if we're out playing off leash and another dog walks by, she shows no interest. 

I am not sure why someone with a dog aggressive therapy dog would bring that dog to an event when they knew other dogs would be around.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Therapy dogs are in institutions by invitation.

Why-o why did the owner of the Akita even attend with his dog KNOWING FULL WELL that his dog has dog-dog issues? GEESH!

This is what gives dog owners a bad name.....when one refuses to admit that their dog has limitations....

It is why wonderful programs are abolished...


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

What does the therapy group's liability insurance policy require? It seems to me the insurance company wouldn't want to cover a group with dog members that might exhibit aggression to other dogs or heaven forbid people. The therapy dogs I've seen in nursing homes and hospital settings don't display any sort of aggression.


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

Dallas Gold said:


> What does the therapy group's liability insurance policy require? It seems to me the insurance company wouldn't want to cover a group with dog members that might exhibit aggression to other dogs or heaven forbid people. The therapy dogs I've seen in nursing homes and hospital settings don't display any sort of aggression.


I don't know...there were so many different groups at that event, and not all dogs wear a vest. Maybe that is part of the problem, that there are many private groups that certify dogs for their own facilities. I can look up the requirements and liability things for Pet Partners, TDI and Therapy Dogs Inc, but those are the big organizations....


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

inge said:


> I don't know...there were so many different groups at that event, and not all dogs wear a vest. Maybe that is part of the problem, that there are many private groups that certify dogs for their own facilities. I can look up the requirements and liability things for Pet Partners, TDI and Therapy Dogs Inc, but those are the big organizations....


I'm glad you are with an established group like PP/Delta. IMO having an dog aggressive to other dogs is a recipe for a disaster and these upstart therapy most likely do not have underlying liability coverage that would necessitate addressing the issues. Being with one of the larger groups like PP/Delta or TDI may be more difficult to get into due to the screening and detailed testing, but you have the added insurance coverage if you or your dog accidentally or otherwise injures a third party or another dog. I personally wouldn't want to be involved in a group without that underlying coverage as you can be sued for damages in such cases. It's bothersome these groups exist, go into institutions like nursing homes and hospitals and utilize teams ill-suited for the work, either through training, testing or dog temperament. They risk closing opportunities for legitimate groups who do take the necessary screening, training and testing precautions. 

Did I just read somewhere that Connecticut will be legislating therapy dogs soon?


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

Personally, I find it imperfect and dangerous to have a reactive/aggressive dog in a therapy situation. When I take Maddie to some of the therapy events there is a dalmatian who is dog aggressive. So much so that she has been given a written warning at obedience trials. 

On my first time, I didn't know about this and as we walked by her chair to demonstrate, Maddie, on a loose leash, turned her head to this dog (whose owner was sitting in one of the line of chairs) and, while Maddie was not attacked, was growled at. Enough that the woman had to pull her dog back. Maddie didn't react (yay).

I was told later to keep my dog on a four foot radius and not go near any of the dogs, even when walking by the lane of chairs. I now avoid that dog entirely and when Maddie is sitting with me, I tend to keep her facing me with my hands on both sides of her face talking to her. A toy poodle growled at her last time, though at least her owner understood that it was totally nothing to do with me. The dog was in her lap and the chairs were very close. Her dog is getting old and doesn't like another dog NEAR her owner. Frustrating to me.

The chairs were under two foot spacing between them that time, so I was actively trying to avoid any interaction between dogs. I try to arrange it so I am sitting near friendly dogs but it isn't always possible.


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

Dallas Gold;3647481
Did I just read somewhere that Connecticut will be legislating therapy dogs soon?[/QUOTE said:


> Yes and I know that Pet Partners has a special evaluation for dogs that participate in crisis situations, as does TDI. The law requires that volunteer canine response teams consist of several handlers and dogs that have been trained, evaluated and registered with an animal-assisted activity organization. The teams must operate on a volunteer basis and be available to respond within 24 hours of a crisis.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

inge said:


> Yes and I know that Pet Partners has a special evaluation for dogs that participate in crisis situations, as does TDI. The law requires that volunteer canine response teams consist of several handlers and dogs that have been trained, evaluated and registered with an animal-assisted activity organization. The teams must operate on a volunteer basis and be available to respond within 24 hours of a crisis.


I want to retire from the Government now! Heroically serving in crisis situations with my dog at the drop of my hat whenever there is a need is a much better preferred lifestyle! It's a bird, it's a plane, it's Super Mercy!


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

Crisis response is what my friend (the trainer that mentored me before I had my son) does and it's my ultimate goal with my next pup. She's been deployed to the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, to the shooting at the Navy up in NoVA recently, along with many other crisis situations. It's truly amazing to me what they do:

HOPE Animal-Assisted Crisis Response | Comfort in Times of Crisis


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

CharlieBear80 said:


> Crisis response is what my friend (the trainer that mentored me before I had my son) does and it's my ultimate goal with my next pup. She's been deployed to the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, to the shooting at the Navy up in NoVA recently, along with many other crisis situations. It's truly amazing to me what they do:
> 
> HOPE Animal-Assisted Crisis Response | Comfort in Times of Crisis


Yep, heard of them!


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

I have had 2 American Pit Bull Terrier therapy dogs both were great at therapy work. Mikado was the best and he became know around town too. He didn't care for male dogs I kept him away from them and we had no issues at all. I do remember our 2nd class when we were told to have the dogs off leash in a sit stay. I said I wasn't going to do that with Mikado as I didn't want anything to happen the instructor said that was fine well I am glad I did as a German shepherd and newfoundland got into a horrible fight but I was able to get Mikado out of there and not have any lasting effects on him. 
Vendetta was shy and timid around men so I only visited women with her and she was in her glory. She loved women but she was very DA. I made sure we didn't run into any other dogs and all went well.
I think it is the team if you are knowing and focused on your dog instead of your surrounds I don't think it matters if your dog is DA or not.


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