# nautilus goldens



## GoldenJoyx'stwo

Yup! I'll leave the others to give recommendations. Nautilus is in the lines of one of my guys and I love him! I love the other one, too. LOL


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## vrocco1

I'm sure you are going to get a lot of feedback. Nautilus is one of the big players in New England.


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## Auenk9

Don't know the owner of the kennel personally...but I have always admired her dogs from afar!


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## cubbysan

Her dogs are very beautiful and the top dogs in the show rings up here. Many of the dogs here in Massachusetts are related.

I know nothing about health and longevity. On the CG forum, there is a puppy who was sired by one of the their top dogs that is displastic, but that could just be a matter of statistics and could be from the mother's lines, too.


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## Ljilly28

Change to PM

Good boy, Casanova! http://www.nautilusgoldens.com/index.asp?ID=26


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## ragtym

This is just my personal experience with Nautilus:

I called Julie because I had fallen in love with Pearl, Nautilus Boston Cream Pie. Julie told me that the waiting list for Pearl's future litter was completely full but she did have a litter sired by Pearl's brother Bruin. I specifically told Julie that I would like this puppy to be the foundation of my kennel if everything turned out right.

When Ashleigh arrived, I fell in love immediately but right from the start, I noticed that this was not a show-quality puppy. She wasn't fluffy puppy and she didn't have a lot of bone. Every breeder that saw her told me that I should send her back or place her.

At 5 months, I noticed her limping on her front legs. I took her to the vet and was told that she had Osteochondrosis Dessicans (OCD) in both of her shoulders. Although it was possible that the flap of cartilage would break off and she would stop limping, surgery would insure that it was taken care of and limit any future arthritis. Ashleigh had the surgery and I had to crate a 6 month old puppy for the next 3 months to keep her from re-injuring her shoulders.

I called Julie to let her know and her response was to blame me, saying that I must have let my pup jump off of things or run around too much. She even told me a story about another Nautilus dog that had OCD but that was caused because "the owner let the pup run on a wet pool deck". Everything that I read had said that OCD was probably genetic, she kept telling me that it wasn't - it was just caused by injury.

I didn't talk to Julie again until Ashleigh was 3 years old. At that time, I had taken her to the vet because she seemed to be a little stressed out over my new pup. After the vet checked her over, she asked me how long Ashleigh had had the heart murmer. I was floored. It took me only a few minutes to decide that Ashleigh shouldn't be bred. 

After she was spayed, I called Julie, again to let her know what was happening with her pup. Her response to finding out I had spayed a bitch with with no bone, little coat, a horrible "fiddle front", OCD, and a heart murmer, was "well, that was stupid". I never spoke to to Julie again after that. Ashleigh lived to the age of 11 and died of a tumor not found often in dogs, an insulinoma - tumor of the pancreas.

On the plus side, Ashleigh was probably the funniest dog I've ever owned. Even on her last day, minutes before she died, she grabbed a toilet paper tube from me and chewed it into a million pieces - she even made the vet laugh. 

I like Julie's dogs but after my own personal experience, I wouldn't go back to her for another puppy.

Ragtym


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## mdoats

Rookie is not from Nautilus, but he does have a lot of Nautilus in his pedigree. He's almost two now and so far he is a gorgeous healthy dog.


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## june007

ragtym said:


> This is just my personal experience with Nautilus:
> 
> I called Julie because I had fallen in love with Pearl, Nautilus Boston Cream Pie. Julie told me that the waiting list for Pearl's future litter was completely full but she did have a litter sired by Pearl's brother Bruin. I specifically told Julie that I would like this puppy to be the foundation of my kennel if everything turned out right.
> 
> When Ashleigh arrived, I fell in love immediately but right from the start, I noticed that this was not a show-quality puppy. She wasn't fluffy puppy and she didn't have a lot of bone. Every breeder that saw her told me that I should send her back or place her.
> 
> At 5 months, I noticed her limping on her front legs. I took her to the vet and was told that she had Osteochondrosis Dessicans (OCD) in both of her shoulders. Although it was possible that the flap of cartilage would break off and she would stop limping, surgery would insure that it was taken care of and limit any future arthritis. Ashleigh had the surgery and I had to crate a 6 month old puppy for the next 3 months to keep her from re-injuring her shoulders.
> 
> I called Julie to let her know and her response was to blame me, saying that I must have let my pup jump off of things or run around too much. She even told me a story about another Nautilus dog that had OCD but that was caused because "the owner let the pup run on a wet pool deck". Everything that I read had said that OCD was probably genetic, she kept telling me that it wasn't - it was just caused by injury.
> 
> I didn't talk to Julie again until Ashleigh was 3 years old. At that time, I had taken her to the vet because she seemed to be a little stressed out over my new pup. After the vet checked her over, she asked me how long Ashleigh had had the heart murmer. I was floored. It took me only a few minutes to decide that Ashleigh shouldn't be bred.
> 
> After she was spayed, I called Julie, again to let her know what was happening with her pup. Her response to finding out I had spayed a bitch with with no bone, little coat, a horrible "fiddle front", OCD, and a heart murmer, was "well, that was stupid". I never spoke to to Julie again after that. Ashleigh lived to the age of 11 and died of a tumor not found often in dogs, an insulinoma - tumor of the pancreas.
> 
> On the plus side, Ashleigh was probably the funniest dog I've ever owned. Even on her last day, minutes before she died, she grabbed a toilet paper tube from me and chewed it into a million pieces - she even made the vet laugh.
> 
> I like Julie's dogs but after my own personal experience, I wouldn't go back to her for another puppy.
> 
> Ragtym


wow..im so sad to hear what happened to you..it sounds like your baby had a great life with you but what an unfortunate story


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## june007

where did rookie come from


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## Ash

I don't know her or her dogs personally but IMO she has one of the rudest litter pages I have ever seen not to mention the spelling errors :doh:


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## mdoats

june007 said:


> where did rookie come from


He's from Mainsail Golden Retrievers in Carver, MA.


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## SunGold

Ash said:


> I don't know her or her dogs personally but IMO she has one of the rudest litter pages I have ever seen not to mention the spelling errors :doh:


LOL - totally agree with you! 

And her puppies are $$$$$$!


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## DelmarvaGold

All I will say is that I do think her dogs have a very nice look (most of them), I have competed against her in the classes, have seen her at many shows where I wasn't competing, have friends that bred to her stud dogs or purchased "breeding" dogs from her...after all of that...I choose to take my business elsewhere. 

This of course is *my opinion only! *and should not be taken as a negative endorsement of any kind.....no matter who the breeder. Do your research and follow your gut instinct. I am a firm believer of this.


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## Ljilly28

http://numoongoldens.com/ 

This is one of the place I personally might try for the positive aspects of a Nautilus style puppy.


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## Ljilly28

Here's a Marshall(Nautilus Lord Of The Rings) litter at Friday's goldens:http://www.fridaygoldens.com/Upcoming_litters.html


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom

Ok, looking at Marshall, what do all those in know think of his COI being in the mid-20's???? And the effect this would have on this particular litter.... could the breeding bring that down substantially for these puppies???


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## AmbikaGR

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Ok, looking at Marshall, what do all those in know think of his COI being in the mid-20's???? And the effect this would have on this particular litter.... could the breeding bring that down substantially for these puppies???


 

I'll risk my view on this.
A breeding with a COI this high quite often is done by long time breeders who are attempting to "lock in" their style. I remember once talking with Julie and her giving her thoughts on her breeding program. She told me she likes to breed two generations on her "lines" then going outside her line for the third generation and then returning again to her "lines" for the next two generations and so on.
While I woulld expect the COI of this litter to be "lower" I suspect it will be on the high side with the following dogs being very influential. 

Charlie
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=56
Teddy
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=50
Bear
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=48
Derby
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=15


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## Hali's Mom

Auenk9 said:


> Don't know the owner of the kennel personally...but I have always admired her dogs from afar!


me too, beautiful dogs.


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## Ljilly28

I'm not at all defending a high COI, but of my 7 goldens, the only one with major health issues has the lowest COI:

10-generation COI	0.08%
12-generation COI	0.24%


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom

Ljilly28 said:


> I'm not at all defending a high COI, but of my 7 goldens, the only one with major health issues has the lowest COI:
> 
> 10-generation COI 0.08%
> 12-generation COI 0.24%


I'm finding all of this really interesting, and am just trying to learn for future reference. Do you mind telling what the COI's are on your other dogs????


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## Ash

COI's mean nothing if you don't know the dogs in the pedigree and the top contributers. Just because a dog has a 3.27% COI does not mean its going to be a healthy one. Yes, IMO you have becarful about getting to high (25%). I think every breeder would sooner have a dog at 24.65% with very clean, healthy, sound, and long living dogs behind them then a dog with a low COI and a sketchy backround. So its really not all or just about the numbers.


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## Ljilly28

Ash said:


> COI's mean nothing if you don't know the dogs in the pedigree and the top contributers. Just because a dog has a 3.27% COI does not mean its going to be a healthy one. Yes, IMO you have becarful about getting to high (25%). I think every breeder would sooner have a dog at 24.65% with very clean, healthy, sound, and long living dogs behind them then a dog with a low COI and a sketchy backround. So its really not all or just about the numbers.


I only have anecdotal experience, but it agrees with Ash's much more educated view. The two dogs with the total outcross have the most trouble. The one with the high COI was such an easy keeper and lived to be almost totally grey. Who knows. . .

1) 10-generation COI	24.19%
12-generation COI	25.80%
Lived to 14: one episode of pancreatitis at age 11, no major health issues COD cancer (Ate Eukanuba)

2) 10-generation COI	6.49%
12-generation COI	7.54%
Lived from 1987 to 2002: no health issues at all: no hotspots,allergies orthopedics, epilepsy etc. COD Hemangiosarcoma of spleen(Ate Eukanuba )

3)10-generation COI	8.17%
12-generation COI	9.44%
Lived from 1993 to 2007 COD Again, hemangiosarcoma heart/spleeen. (Ate Eukanuba)

4)Cady's sire, Twin Beau D's Montego Bay died at 10 and Cady at 9. She had panosteoitis, hotspots, allergy to bees and hornets,and utis. She died from bladder cancer at age 9 years- 1998 -2007. She has a low COI though. (Ate Eukanuba and Canidae)
Genetic information for Twin-Beau-D Anderson's Acadia CGC
10-generation COI	0.17%
12-generation COI	0.38%

5)Finn: Finn is healthy so far, except for mild epilepsy. No allergies, hotspots, ear problems and great orthopedics.(Canidae and Innova)
10-generation COI	6.87%
12-generation COI	7.29%

6) So far Tally is healthy: prelims hips good, elbows normal, no allergies, hotspots, or eplilepsy(Canidae/Innova)
10-generation COI	7.28%
12-generation COI	9.64%

7) Both parents all clearances but nonetheless bilateral fragment coronoid process elbow dysplasiaCanidae/Innova)
10-generation COI	0.08%
12-generation COI	0.24%


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## MurphyTeller

Ash said:


> COI's mean nothing if you don't know the dogs in the pedigree and the top contributers. Just because a dog has a 3.27% COI does not mean its going to be a healthy one. Yes, IMO you have becarful about getting to high (25%). I think every breeder would sooner have a dog at 24.65% with very clean, healthy, sound, and long living dogs behind them then a dog with a low COI and a sketchy backround. So its really not all or just about the numbers.


Remember too that a dog with an incomplete or unknown pedigree is going to have a lower COI than a dog with known parentage.

Erica


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## Kohanagold

Ash said:


> COI's mean nothing if you don't know the dogs in the pedigree and the top contributers. Just because a dog has a 3.27% COI does not mean its going to be a healthy one. Yes, IMO you have becarful about getting to high (25%). I think every breeder would sooner have a dog at 24.65% with very clean, healthy, sound, and long living dogs behind them then a dog with a low COI and a sketchy backround. So its really not all or just about the numbers.


I second that! COIs dont worry me so much, but rather are a tool to use when picking a match. A dog with a higher COI where the main contributors produced healthy, sound, happy puppies is a great thing. My dogs are right around 5-6%, which I would call "low". When you get a lower COI, you really dont know what to expect. Dogs with higher COIs tend to produce more uniform litters. I guess to make sense of it, one must understand the difference between linebreeding, inbreeding, and outcrossing and how genes work together. What I'm trying to say, is dont get so hung up on the number.

I dont know any Nautius dogs personally, but they are very pretty. But IMO it does take more than beauty to make a good dog, and certainly a good breeder. Good luck in your search! BJ


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## NuttinButGoldens

Ok. I'll 'bite'. What's a COI


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## Kohanagold

NuttinButGoldens said:


> Ok. I'll 'bite'. What's a COI


"Coefficient of Inbreeding" - It basically tells you how inbred your puppy is. If your puppy's parents are entered into k9data, you can put your puppy in (after you figure out a name of course  ) and it will give you the COI, as well as the main contributors to your puppies pedigree. Hope that helps. BJ


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## NuttinButGoldens

Thank You!


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## arcane

ragtym said:


> At 5 months, I noticed her limping on her front legs. I took her to the vet and was told that she had Osteochondrosis Dessicans (OCD) in both of her shoulders. Although it was possible that the flap of cartilage would break off and she would stop limping, surgery would insure that it was taken care of and limit any future arthritis. Ashleigh had the surgery and I had to crate a 6 month old puppy for the next 3 months to keep her from re-injuring her shoulders.





ragtym said:


> I didn't talk to Julie again until Ashleigh was 3 years old. At that time, I had taken her to the vet because she seemed to be a little stressed out over my new pup. After the vet checked her over, she asked me how long Ashleigh had had the heart murmer. I was floored. It took me only a few minutes to decide that Ashleigh shouldn't be bred.


so am I reading this correctly that you had planned on breeding her anyway with the OCD? It was the heart murmur that stopped you?


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## capa

The line of Axel's mom is all Nautilus.


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## cham

Most of my Hailey's background is Nautilus, her dam is a Nautilis and has a majority of Nautilus dogs and Twin Beau D's in her background. Her sire had a fair mix with a majority of Twin Beau D.

She is a wonderful, sweet, loving couch potato, with a very strong stubborn streak. Definately not "birdy" or even a retriever. LOL Her idea of fetch is you throw and she will watch...  

Hailey looks very similiar to Axel.


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## ragtym

arcane said:


> so am I reading this correctly that you had planned on breeding her anyway with the OCD? It was the heart murmur that stopped you?


Originally, yes, I had thought about breeding her even with the OCD. You have to understand that I was young(er) and was getting conflicting information about whether or not OCD was genetic. Most of the studies that were out at the time had been done on pigs, not dogs. They suggested that there was a genetic component but there was nothing specifically about dogs. At the same time, I had a well-known breeder telling me that it wasn't genetic and that I shouldn't worry about it.

The thing is, there were so many other things that were "wrong" with her that I had been debating breeding her at all. The heart murmur was just the final nail in the coffin, so to speak.


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## peeps

I have admired the "look" of Nautilus Dogs but after using some resources available (k9data, OFFA ,cerf, etc) would not go there. I am sure there will be other opinions but breeding that many fairs to fairs I think is asking for problems. JMHO. After reading this it just reinforces my opinion!


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## AquaClaraCanines

Don't know this kennel (know OF them of course) personally so cannot give a view other than the dogs are beautiful looking.

However, I will say that a higher COI doesn't phase me. But, in many sighthound breeds a COI of 20 is nothing... that said, the gene pools are smaller and there are typically fewer health problems in many of these breeds.


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## Ljilly28

The litter just posted, Joe Millionaire X Paris Hilton, is fated to be so heartmeltingly adorable, with the ultimate in fluffy puppy coats, coal black eyes, pretty heads, that if I saw one, I'd be a goner. It is hard to use common sense once you just bury your face in one of those velvet pups. Therefore, I wont look!


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## SunGold

Ljilly28 said:


> The litter just posted, Joe Millionaire X Paris Hilton, is fated to be so heartmeltingly adorable, with the ultimate in fluffy puppy coats, coal black eyes, pretty heads, that if I saw one, I'd be a goner. It is hard to use common sense once you just bury your face in one of those velvet pups. Therefore, I wont look!


I see they fixed the spelling errors - maybe they saw this thread. 

That will be an adorable litter!


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## Conquerergold

peeps said:


> I have admired the "look" of Nautilus Dogs but after using some resources available (k9data, OFFA ,cerf, etc) would not go there. I am sure there will be other opinions but breeding that many fairs to fairs I think is asking for problems. JMHO. After reading this it just reinforces my opinion!


Fair to Fair wouldn't bother me, after all, a clearance is a clearance is a clearance. They could have resubmitted three months later and come up with an Excellent (yes..it has happened, and no doubt will again).

OVC is pass or fail, we don't have the different ratings and hip production here isn't any worse or better then in the USA.


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## tedi

I have had 2 goldens from Julie and she is very well known in the "golden world". We love our dogs and as most of you know anything can happen to a dog and when getting the golden breed they are known for cancer whether it was never in the line or not most of them end up getting some form of it, and if you are lucky enough it might never happen. I believe that Julie Mackinnon breeds to improve the breed and does everything she can to make sure that she is selling healthy puppies. You also must specify and work with her if you want show quality and be prepared to wait and be able to give her information. I now live in Florida and I still will go to her for my dogs (used to live in Ma ) and from what I have experienced my boy Tedi is so smart, handsome, patient and very in touch with our family. No he is not perfect, but every golden in my neighborhood has some kind of skin problem, hip problem or just not of the so called show dog look golden. I will someday when I have time and money will get an actual showdog and it will be from Julie, just have some patience and listen to other stories you may hear about the so called breeders, there are lots out there and its all about the money.


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## Ljilly28

I assistant taught a puppy class today with a Nautilus Jag puppy in it. What an amazing girl- one of the lovliest show puppies I have ever seen in person- friendly, and smart too. What a front on that puppy! I won't share her pricetag with the forum, lol, since CPR might be needed.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo

My Tucker has Nautilus in him. He's been a very healthy boy. He will be turning 7 in Feb of 2010.


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## K9-Design

My first golden was sired by Julie's Onyx (CH Nautilus Edgehill Crown Onyx OS). He was a beautiful dog. Had bad skin but otherwise healthy until he died of hemangio at 10.5. 
He was my best friend, and loved to retrieve, bit of an insecure temperament in competition though.
I met Julie once. I showed Tucker as a veteran at the 98 Eastern Regional. His breeder introduced us. I was nervous and excited to meet her. She could have given a rat's ass about me and my dog! 
I later read an interview with her, in the old GR Review magazine, that she sold Onyx to a buyer in Japan, and alluded to the fact that he was basically stuck in a puppy mill situation over there and she fought to get him back to no avail. Described him as her best friend, that you would do anything you could to get your best friend back. I say you don't sell your best friend down the river for a few quick bucks.
Beautiful dogs, you can recognize them right away.


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## TJE Parrish

We got our boy Otis from Julie back in the mid to late 90s. I think he was pretty spectacular.


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## Vinman75

I am on a waiting list and have put a deposit on a puppy at Twin Beau D which is also in MA. Maybe it is me but, I also found the Nautilus web page to be a bit much.


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## cubbysan

Vinman75 said:


> I am on a waiting list and have put a deposit on a puppy at Twin Beau D which is also in MA. Maybe it is me but, I also found the Nautilus web page to be a bit much.


I have a 9 year old Twin Beau D dog! He is the picture in my avatar. Love him to pieces. Twin Beau D was the foundation of the Nautilus lines.


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## Sally's Mom

Friend is expecting a litter by a Twin Beau D dog....like the Twin Beau D dogs. My George and Mantha are almost 14 and grandkids of Twin Beau D's Montego Bay. Nice dogs.


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## Ljilly28

I had a Twin Beau D dog named Acadia in my last generation. Another big founder of the new England dogs is Cloverdale. The three kennels share many similar foundation dogs, with Coverdale and Twin Beau D remaining close colleagues through the years until this very day.


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## cubbysan

Ljilly28 said:


> I had a Twin Beau D dog named Acadia in my last generation. Another big founder of the new England dogs is Cloverdale. The three kennels share many similar foundation dogs, with Coverdale and Twin Beau D remaining close colleagues through the years until this very day.


Nancy's foundation bitch was a Cloverdale. The Twin Beau D, Nautilus, Cloverdale dogs have a very distinctive look. I think some of the most beautiful faces.


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## Sally's Mom

My first golden was out of a Cloverdale bitch, by a Sunnybrae dog. Heart girl, Sallly, with pigment to die for...


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## ollie40

I got the love of my life from Nautilus in June 2016, their dogs are beautiful, however mine came with some issues (discovered after) and I had paid extra for training and "fully vaccinated" - NOT THE CASE! He was four months and was kept for show until one of his testicles retracted. When I tried to discuss reimbursement, proof of training and why he hadn't yet been dewormed (he had round worm when I took him to the vet the day after I got him) Julie went PSYCHOTIC. She sent me the meanest, vulgar, and unprofessional texts ever. She would not talk to me by phone. At one point, I almost thought I should get a restraining order since she had all my info and the texts were THAT bad. Her partner in the buisness and in life is also the veterinarian. She was also rude and wouldn't be helpful. I would never recommend them. Hundreds of people have asked me about were I have got him and I have been completely honest, she has no right being a breeder. She is dishonest and manipulative and I personally know of other nautilus owners who have gotten nasty remarks afterwards or were lied to about a medical condition. Like I said, too bad the dogs are gorgeous.


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## Lincgold

Wow, that’s too bad. I’m sorry that happened to you. We got two Golden’s from Nautilus, one died of kidney disease from Lyme at 4 years despite the fact that we had him vaccinated. She told us he should never had gotten kidney disease IF we did vacinate..I assured her we did. Second dog died at 10 from hemangiosarcoma. We are currently looking for a golden pup but are considering cream colored English golden retriever as we have heard that the cancer rate is lower for these Golden’s than the American Golden’s. We had another golden that died from lymphoma. Does anyone know of any reputable breeders in New England area.


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## puddles everywhere

Lincgold... This is a really old thread, it might be wise to start a new one. There is a forum specifically for breeder hunts, this might help. As far as the English... you are working off bad information. A golden is a golden and they are all open to the afflictions of goldens.
Good luck with your puppy hunt!


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## Lincgold

Hi thanks for the input. I did start a new post. I’m beginning to hear more and more about cream colored Golden’s vs regular Golden’s. So much info. Hard to figure out what’s true and not. I just don’t want to put another dog down due to cancer...too heart wrenching..and yet, I am not willing to choose a different breed. I’ll keep researching. I appreciate your comments.


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## Prism Goldens

I know you might not want to hear this but if a Golden lives long enough, it is probably going to die of cancer. The key is to have the likelihood mediated by old age. Don't buy the 'ECGR has no cancer' story- it is not true, the surveys used to supposedly prove this are surveys not studies, have no controls for pedigree, and are built on a anecdotal historical gathering rather than dogs enrolled w controls for each other and pedigree (origin) and are not even close to scientific.
I am so sorry for your loss.


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