# Do we have the wrong routine? How long does it take to be fully potty trained?



## 1st Golden (Apr 11, 2011)

We have our puppy for 3 weeks now. He is 11 weeks old today.
This is our 1st dog ever and I think we did not realize before the amount of work and the amount of changes in the house routine he would bring with him. We've been reading a lot about having a dog for a long time. I'm sure it was the long term right decision but the short term is proving to be more difficult than we thought.

Anyway, the beginning is definitely stressful and I clearly understand some of the statements we read saying: in the first few weeks you will ask yourself: did we do the right thing? Honestly, we asked this question a couple of times and even discussed a scenario where we would return him. We gave up that because he is really adorable and very nice. 

Here is our routine for the last 3 weeks:

5am – I wake up to work and take him outside. He pees, I spent few minutes walking to confirm if he is going to poo and we come back inside. He stays in the kitchen while I have breakfast. Put him back in the crate and go to work.
8am – my wife takes him out of the crate and goes with him outside again for his business.
From that time until around 11pm, he is in the kitchen – out of the crate (except if my wife needs to go out) – and he is taken outside every 2 hours.
11pm he goes outside and then goes to his crate (which is in the kitchen). I take him outside again at 2am. 

Sometimes I will wake up at 2am to take him outside and I see he peed inside his crate – which I thought would not happen based on what I read (they don't do their business in the same place they sleep). The size of the crate is the right one for a puppy… So I'm not sure what's wrong there...

In the future our intention is to give him free access to the house – but potty trained is a mandatory condition for that to happen. 

The issue is: even with that routine for 3 weeks now, he does not give any indication that outside is the right place to do his business – he just did not get it. I would expect him going to the door and give us some sign but nothing. If we don’t' take him outside very frequently, he would pee and poo in the middle of the kitchen – without any indication.

So, how long does it take for a puppy to be potty trained? Are we doing something wrong in our routine? Every time we take him outside, we use the same phrase (Go potty, go potty) and as soon as he does, we prize him with lots of emphasis.

Crate training seems to be another thing that is taking longer than we thought... 

Any thought?


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## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

Well firstly, 11 weeks is still very young to expect him to let you know when he needs to go outside. It is also very young to be housetrained. I would increase the amount you are taking him out, every 2 hours may not be enough, try for every hour if someone is home. The more he goes outside and the more he is praised for it, the more he will learn it is the right thing to do. Do not punish him for going inside, he will become secretive about it and hide from you when he goes and you will not be able to catch him in the middle of going. If you see him going, pick him up immediately, and carry him outside. Always have him on a leash when he is outside doing his business, and for the first month or two, always go to the same place.

When you say "go potty" etc, don't say it before he goes, say it AS he goes. Dogs generally link sounds and actions that are only within 2 seconds of their own actions, so just say it at the same time. Do that for months, until finally, try saying it when you think he is *about* to go, keep that up for a while, and then start using it as a proper cue when you want him to go.

As for peeing inside his crate during the night.... I would say he is having way too much water - are you removing it after 8pm? You can give ice after that time, but no water. Either that or you simply need to get up more to take him out. Yes he should hold it and not pee in his sleeping area, but if he is stuffed full of water he may not be able to help it. You shouldn't give full access to water if he is drinking a lot in the evenings.

This is what I would do as a sequence of events when he is going outside. He starts to go --> Immediately "Go potty, gooood dog" --> he finishes --> Immediately lots of praise, a nice tasty treat "such a good dog!!" ---> play with a toy, (if it isn't night) make it really happy. Also, if you are taking him out specifically for him to go, only give him a few minutes before taking him back in. If he doesn't go, his problem. He will soon learn to go quickly if he needs to. All these various bits and pieces help teach him going outside is a good and happy thing. However, housetraining needs some patience, every pup is different, and sometimes they're not completely housetrained until 4 or 6 months even. So just work hard on it, and be consistent.


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## ebenjamin85 (Apr 13, 2008)

Samantha had her last accident at 6 months. She was mostly potty trained around 4 months but had the occasional pee accident... never had a poop accident. We took her out about every 30 minutes until she was around 4 months old. We literally would take her from her crate, bring her outside, bring her inside to play, bring her outside, and put her back into her crate if we couldn't watch her like a hawk. We always took her out about 15 minutes after eating or drinking a lot of water.

Your puppy is still very young and it will take time. Don't worry if he doesn't seem to be getting it. The more often that you can take him out to reinforce his good behavior while preventing accidents the better. Even at 6 months we were still taking her out about every hour when she wasn't crated. 

Best of luck and don't worry, he'll get it!


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## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

By 11 weeks old a puppy should be well on it's way to being potty trained. Maybe I have high expectations because my now 4 year old came home from the breeder at approximately 10 weeks old and has never had an accident in the house to this day. However, I followed a strict routine.

A puppy needs to be taken out very often - after eating, after playing, after waking up and many times inbetween. I would say it can average every 20-30 minutes depending on the day especially until around 12-14 weeks. By 10 weeks old a puppy should be sleeping through the night - basicially from around 10pm to 5:30am.

A puppy even as young as 8 weeks old does let you know that it needs to go potty.
It's a matter of recognizing the signs which are not always easy to determine because each dog is different. Some whine, some give a little bark (this is not as common because Golden puppies in general don't find their voice very young - mine was 5 months old the first time he barked) some start sniffing the ground and some just stare at you (my dog's warning). If they just stare as a young puppy you need to get them out of with just a quick glance because they are not going to give you a second warning. 

I'm assuming that you are taking the puppy out the same door each time he needs to potty. If so, your puppy should be going to the door by now when he has to go out. It's part of the routine that you have already established

When a puppy is in it's crate he should whine and whine loudly when he has to potty. It's quite unusual for a puppy to consistently soil it's crate. Water should be removed no later than 8pm. If he has a soft whine and is in the kitchen, it's likely that you are not hearing him. It would probably help if you moved his crate to your bedroom.

I would also suggest rewarding him every time he does his business outside. Immediately after he goes make a party out of it and give a treat. It reinforces the behavior you want and goldens are very food motivated.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

Two hours might just be a little too much for him to handle. I would try doing it more often if possible. Also, try keeping a schedule and write down exactly when he pees and whether or not it was an accident. That worked well for me so I could kind of get the rhythm down and know that the limitations were.

As for peeing in the crate, definitely remove water after a certain point in the evening. Also, now that there has already been pee in the crate you need to really clean it out completely so that the odor is completely gone because dogs tend to pee in the same place again and again. So if the crate smells like pee your pup may be more likely to pee in there again even if it is where he sleeps!

How's it going?


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Potty training does work out, and you puppy will get it right. It's good to keep that in mind so you won't worry. At 11 weeks, a puppy has a bladder literally the size of a walnut. Saying that, it is important not to let the pup practice making mistakes as each accident "unteaches" him. For us, bells on the door really help. We ring them together at first, and then sure enough, one day the pup does it himself. While I think teaching a phrase for potty, and rewarding good choices is crucial, I also think habit is even more key. If the pup starts associating potty with outside, he will fasten on to that; however, if puppy associates potty with his crate at midnight, it gets to be a habit too. Break the cycle by putting an "empty" puppy to bed in a small crate when he is good and tired.

Try to feed the pup on an earlier schedule. When we have a baby, we go breakfast at 5 am, lunch at 11 am, and final food at 3pm.


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## Bella's Mama (Jun 12, 2011)

Our pup who's 10.5 weeks had many more accidents until we introduced treats outside after she went potty. She learned pretty quickly after that. Still a few accidents but she knows that is not acceptable. In fact, the first and only time she really pooped in the house was on Saturday in her play pen. She barked at my husband to get his attention because she knew that was not supposed to be there!!!


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## luverofpeanuts (Jun 9, 2011)

You're routine isn't too different from ours. We are 11 weeks and 5 days. Since we have two pups, it's interesting to see that Aspen, our female, has been a week or more ahead of our boy, Spirit. 

Spirit has had the occasional accident in his crate at night even though we are quick to recognized uncomfortable shifting and moving around that often precede a potty.

I will say that in the last couple of days, I've noticed an accelerating ability of Spirit to hold his pee, so I think he's getting to the point where he's starting to control it more. 

Hang in there. Of course, IMHO, one has to be realistic and expect an occasional accident for a couple of more months.

My wife says we should have have expected the female to mature quickly, and have more focused attention spans than the male. She that'll probably always be the case.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

As you get to the door to take the pup out- establish a verbal cue - 'Need out?' Lets go pee!! whatever - so that he associates the door opening with going outside. When he is successful outside reward with treats, praise has little meaning to puppies until they can pair it with a physical reward such as a treat, for now, and praise, play, or petting when he gets older.
If there is a blanket of any type in the crate, it could trigger him to urinate and it could be you are missing his whining at night, if the crate is not at least fairly close to your sleeping area. Perhaps try feeding him his meals in the crate, when his is done, take him outside right away, pups usually have a fairly quick in-out cycle - reward him bigtime for success. Watch him closely when he is free in the kitchen, some cues from him to watch for: circling, or all of a sudden stopping play and sniffing the floor,or heading to the door,stopping all of sudden and squatting a little. If you catch him in the act, interrupt with a hand clap or firm 'no', scoop him up and take him outside and wait til he finishes - reward big time.
Hang in there, don't give up. They are only puppies for a short time of their life and it is a learning situation for all of you, - it takes time.


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

When I house break a puppy, I watch them like a hawk and take them out every 15-20 min. (the reason why I like summer puppies!). When they go, lots of praise and a tiny treat. If I'm not home or able to watch them, I use a crate.

Hank seemed to "get it" at around 12 weeks. I stretched it out to every 30 mins. or so unless he let me know he needed out. He would sit at the gate that lead to the greatroom (to go out to the backyard).

I've never had a puppy that peed/pooped in their crate but I know it's common.


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## 1st Golden (Apr 11, 2011)

Thank you all for the thoughts... very helpful.

His last accident in the crate was 4 or 5 nights ago. So seems that he is getting better on that... He has no water after 9pm and I think it's also helping.

He is always on a leash when we go outside and we always go to the same place in our backyard – using always the same door in the kitchen. He seems to recognize that special place in the backyard as he goes directly there all the time. He has his 'special place' for pee and a different one for his poo. It seems to be working well.

Cleaning the crate – as mentioned – was one of our biggest concern so we made sure to do it right. I'm sure there is nothing there that he could associate to it. We had a blanket for him in the crate but because of the accidents we removed it. After clean 4 nights, I believe we can put it back in.

I've been trying to recognize the signs he give us when he wants to go out – especially sounds. However, he only makes those sounds when he is in the crate. When he is not, there is no sign… and he is out of the crate during the whole day. That's the frustrated part…

Anyway, maybe we have way too many expectations for a 11 weeks puppy. I'm sure we'll get there…


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## 1st Golden (Apr 11, 2011)

Forgot to mention... way too hot in Michigan and he hates to go outside...


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

I'm not the OP but a big "Thank you" to everyone for all the helpful advice...It's definitely info I will be using!! I've been doing some intense house-training with Scarlett for the last 2 days and I think it's starting to click. She's starting to at least wander off in the direction of the door when she needs to go instead of just stopping and peeing immediately whenever she feels the urge. Fingers crossed this sinks in soon!


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

You are doing fine. Just make sure it is a big party with absolutely wonderful treats, like little bits of meat or cheese, when he goes outside.


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## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

I really want to emphasize what others have also said. Make sure you have him on a feeding scheduling. I'm not sure how many times a day you are feeding your puppy but I always gave (and still do) two meals. His dinner should never be later than 6pm while he was very young You really need to take away the water no later than 8pm. You can tell if your puppy is thirsty and you can always give ice cubes. I strongly believe that my dog trained super quick because of this and all the other things I mentioned in my earlier post. Others included further details that I also did and won't repeat here.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, your puppy's sign can just be a stare. I knew to look for this because I had read several books on Goldens. Puppies as young as yours will not be as persistent as an older one and will only give you one chance at taking him out. Try doing this if you get a stare during play and take him out. At the very least it will reinforce that going potty outside is a great thing to do.


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## ferreira (Jun 20, 2011)

lyssa said:


> Well firstly, 11 weeks is still very young to expect him to let you know when he needs to go outside. It is also very young to be housetrained. I would increase the amount you are taking him out, every 2 hours may not be enough, try for every hour if someone is home. The more he goes outside and the more he is praised for it, the more he will learn it is the right thing to do. Do not punish him for going inside, he will become secretive about it and hide from you when he goes and you will not be able to catch him in the middle of going. If you see him going, pick him up immediately, and carry him outside. Always have him on a leash when he is outside doing his business, and for the first month or two, always go to the same place.
> 
> When you say "go potty" etc, don't say it before he goes, say it AS he goes. Dogs generally link sounds and actions that are only within 2 seconds of their own actions, so just say it at the same time. Do that for months, until finally, try saying it when you think he is *about* to go, keep that up for a while, and then start using it as a proper cue when you want him to go.
> 
> ...


 
I have an 8 week old female and I realized that mistake! I just left the water dish out thinking she is always thirsty and then dealt with getting up every 2 hours to take her outside. 

Last night I took the water away after she had her last pee and she slept through the night!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

1st Golden said:


> Thank you all for the thoughts... very helpful.
> 
> His last accident in the crate was 4 or 5 nights ago. So seems that he is getting better on that... He has no water after 9pm and I think it's also helping.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you are getting there. Good luck<:

Before you know it, he will be six or seven months and you won't remember the last time he had an accident. 

About the hot weather - make sure you have a command for pee/poop (go duty/go poopy). It does help. <- I had a winter puppy who didn't like his bare belly getting cold.  <- And this is something I still use when we go to dog class or wherever and I want to make sure I'm not marching back and forth waiting for my adult dog to get the idea I want him to find a spot when I have to be in class in the next minute or two.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

Iorek is 6 months on the 15th and I honestly do not remember the last time he had an accident. I think he was probably 3.5 months? 

However, we kept a very strict schedule...he was taken out about very 45mins-60mins unless he was napping. He was also taken out immediately after rough play, immediately after waking up (this was usually the big one...he'd stumble around for a few seconds and then just...pee...right in the house. I think he wasn't quite awake enough to indicate he needed to go. 90% of accidents were just after waking up), and about 10mins after eating or drinking a lot. Each time he was leashed to go outside would be announced with an "Outside, Iorek!" and once he was outside, he would be instructed with a "Potty, Iorek!". Now the poor guy will try to pee on command even if there's nothing left to pee. He'd be praised for going and then promptly receive a treat once inside. 

The main thing I've noticed since we got Iorek is that_ dogs can communicate differently._ When I was housetraining my parents dogs, they did the classic "circle, sniff" type behavior. It was always really obvious that they needed to go. Iorek, however, just gets extra nippy when he has to go. To this day, that's his main way of communicating that he needs to go out. Sometimes he'll go lay down by the stairs but he also sleeps there a lot so it's hard to tell. It could be that your pup is giving you indication, it just may not be the indication that you are expecting and it's being overlooked...keep an eye on what sort of behaviors he seems to display right before going out and maybe that will help.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

One thing Flora's breeder told me that I thought was very useful was with regards to potty training. He said that as you're taking your dog outside, select a door you want your dog to recognize as the "potty door" and then hold your pup up to it and say "outside" before opening the door and going outside.

I did that repeatedly with Flora and nowadays when she has to go potty, she just quietly gets up and stands by the door. It took her a while as a puppy to get it (she had UTIs and whatnot) but it stayed with her!

I think you're just expecting a little too much out of your pup for now. And yes, when I had a puppy, I was constantly thinking "What did I get myself into!?!?!?" but that feeling passes with time.  Good luck!


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## tanianault (Dec 11, 2010)

We brought home our puppy, Grover, near the end of January, so he's 7 months old now. And what worked for us were Dr Ian Dunbar's two (free) e-books:
"Before You Get Your Puppy" http://www.dogstardaily.com/files/BE...ur%20Puppy.pdf 
"After Your Get Your Puppy" http://www.dogstardaily.com/files/AF...ur%20Puppy.pdf

We set up a puppy-proof area indoors for Grover for when we weren't at home. When we were at home, but if someone couldn't keep their eyes on him 100% of the time (e.g. while I was making supper) he would be crated. We also took him outside a LOT:
- immediately when he woke up (including once or twice in the middle of the night for the first couple of weeks)
- right before he was penned, crated, or before bedtime
- after every meal
- after every play session
- every time he sniffed the floor or walked in a circle or looked like he was about to squat
- every time we left the house to go on a walk, etc. (pee first, then walkies!)
- and for the first month he was home, every hour on the hour that he was awake

Consistancy is the key: make sure you're taking him out the same door every time, to the same spot every time, say the same phrase every time - try to make everything as predictable as possible for him during the first few weeks to make it easier for him to learn what's expected. And when he does pee and poop outside, reward, reward, reward. Give him a special treat or play with a special toy that you reserve only for going potty outside.

I know it seems a bit overwhelming right now, but he'll get it and in no time at all you'll turn around and see a half-grown dog laying at your feet (What a good boy, Grover!). So in between all those potty breaks, remember to take lots of photos, because they do grow up so fast!

- Tania


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## 1st Golden (Apr 11, 2011)

So far so good... 
He is now 13 weeks and seems to accept (not like) his crate better.
He basically is in the crate just during the night to sleep. During the day he is free in the kitchen. Potty training is taking longer that I was expecting. If we don't take him outside every 1 or 2 hours, he would do his business inside with no signs...

I went to the Vet today as he got his 3rd vaccine. She told me that at this age, he should be holding his pee for 4, 5 or even 6 hours. Well, my boy can not hold anything beyond 3 hours and he would even pee inside his crate if we are not around (another thing that the Vet told me he should not be doing). She said that it's potentially related to the fact that he is not a big lover of his crate...

Anyway, he is improving - slowly than I would expect - and I'm sure he will get there... 

We've been keeping the discipline - same door, same words, etc, etc. - so thanks all for the tips. Really helpful...


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Wow. This vet who has house trained nine goldens, some easier than other thinks that your vet's expectations are extraordinary. I have never had to get up in the night with my guys... but when they are out and about, they can pee every 10 seconds... And I think the rule for being in a crate is one hour for one year.....


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I think that's actually 1 hour for each month of age, so at 3.5 months he might be able to go 3.5 hours in the crate with needing to potty, but every puppy is different. 4 hours in a crate might be doable, but I would not expect him to be able to hold it more than 4 at his age.

His bladder is tiny, it will grow as he does and one day you will realize he's house trained.


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## Pammie (Jan 22, 2011)

I think the 1 hour for each month of age is good in theory, but unfortunately it's not always reality...
Even though my pup is 5 months old, during his very active times of the day, late afternoon and early evening, he still needs to go out every hour or so! when he is crated he can usually last 5-6 hours, but sometimes not. Thankfully, he is good at pawing his crate to wake us up!


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## aerolor (May 27, 2011)

*For Tanianault*
The two Ian Dunbar e-books you posted give sound advice on bringing a puppy into your home. They have been around for quite a while, but are such good advice (and in an easy, good humoured style). I think everyone with a new puppy should read them. I am not so much thinking about the toilet training, but other things. The advice on bite inhibition is excellent. (apologies if I have gone off topic a bit). 
Special thanks for putting them up. :thanks:


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## aerolor (May 27, 2011)

I think with our 13 week old golden puppy I have probably done things a bit different from some posters. I do use a crate, but she only sleeps in it at night (from 10.00pm onwards). She rarely goes in it during the day, except when the grandchildren come and we have to separate them when it gets too rowdy. 
During the day she has another bed to go to - which will eventually be her "proper" bed. She has free access to the rooms at the back of the house (conservatory, kitchen, utility, dining room - all with hard floors). 
Having a Spring/Summer puppy, I believe, makes house-training so much easier and quicker. I also think it depends on how your breeder has kept/managed the puppies when in the nest. We have been extremely lucky in that our breeder allowed her puppies free access in and out of doors (indoors was a large conservatory. Once the pups were active the door was left open - except at night). 
I followed a similar principle when our pup came to us, plus we watched her closely and took her outside everytime we thought she wanted to go toilet - (just about hourly). Right from the start she has never soiled her crate at night and is now reasonably reliable during the day for a 13 week pup. She now can take herself off to wee/poo in the garden, usually in the same place, and we are at the point where we don't have to watch her quite so closely as in the beginning. I wouldn't say she is completely house-trained yet, but if she has an accident inside the house then I consider it is my fault, not hers. 
My approach is possibly not suitable for everyone. It is time consuming and I don't have to go to work anymore, but if you have a suitable home environment to be able to do it, it really does work and it is possible to have a puppy quite well trained in a fairly short space of time. Most puppies naturally want to be clean, but they do need the opportunity to help themselves do it.


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## Tappster98 (Apr 21, 2012)

lyssa said:


> Well firstly, 11 weeks is still very young to expect him to let you know when he needs to go outside. It is also very young to be housetrained. I would increase the amount you are taking him out, every 2 hours may not be enough, try for every hour if someone is home. The more he goes outside and the more he is praised for it, the more he will learn it is the right thing to do. Do not punish him for going inside, he will become secretive about it and hide from you when he goes and you will not be able to catch him in the middle of going. If you see him going, pick him up immediately, and carry him outside. Always have him on a leash when he is outside doing his business, and for the first month or two, always go to the same place.
> 
> When you say "go potty" etc, don't say it before he goes, say it AS he goes. Dogs generally link sounds and actions that are only within 2 seconds of their own actions, so just say it at the same time. Do that for months, until finally, try saying it when you think he is *about* to go, keep that up for a while, and then start using it as a proper cue when you want him to go.
> 
> ...


You say an 11 week should go out every hour when out of the crate? I have a 13 week old female - and I've been taking her out every 30 min - is that too soon?? She hasn't had an accident in awhile in the kitchen. How long should I keep her out - I'd love to keep her out longer. I give access to unlimited water up until 5pm.


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## mayapaya (Sep 28, 2011)

Tappster98 said:


> You say an 11 week should go out every hour when out of the crate? I have a 13 week old female - and I've been taking her out every 30 min - is that too soon?? She hasn't had an accident in awhile in the kitchen. How long should I keep her out - I'd love to keep her out longer. I give access to unlimited water up until 5pm.


Payton was born on the 20th of January, so our pups are very close in age. Payton can make it through the night, but during the day, I still take her out every 30 minutes. She's had a few accidents in the house, my fault because I was not watching her that minute, and she gives the typical signs of sniffing and circling when she needs to go. I also give unlimited access to water during the day, but she is crated when I can't watch her. Sometimes she will have just peed outside, and then pee again inside 15 minutes later, so I now keep her outside a bit longer. Slowly but surely, we're getting there!


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## willows pack (Apr 14, 2012)

for hot spots - a place where he has gone back to pee - the spray is good but I also would put an object over the area if it was possible - ie the food and water bowl set up, or a furniture piece - anything that blocks the same spot.

We also watched like a hawk - took her out every 20 minutes - lost weight those first few weeks - but on occasion, like someone else posted - in mid play she'd just pee - just outside the fun circle - so you have to watch that too

we also tethered or crated when you couldn't visually watch her 

with diligence it took about 2 weeks

also - always had the odor spray ready on hand - that takes the pee smell away - wiped it up immediately and sprayed with the bottle - you'll also need that for stage two with excited greeting pee


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

He'll get it, my guy came to me at 5.5 weeks and it took until he was 12 weeks to finally catch on. I think you're expecting too much too soon.
(my comments in *bold*)



1st Golden said:


> We have our puppy for 3 weeks now. He is 11 weeks old today.
> This is our 1st dog ever and *I think we did not realize before the amount of work and the amount of changes in the house routine he would bring with him*. We've been reading a lot about having a dog for a long time. I'm sure it was the long term right decision but the short term is proving to be more difficult than we thought. *Believe me, none of us do!*
> 
> Anyway, the beginning is definitely stressful and I clearly understand some of the statements we read saying: in the first few weeks you will ask yourself: did we do the right thing? Honestly, we asked this question a couple of times and even discussed a scenario where we would return him. We gave up that because he is really adorable and very nice.
> ...


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