# Advice/closure



## Myduke (Dec 13, 2017)

Hi guys I'm new here. 
I'm sure I'm not the first with this post. A few days ago I left on a holiday. 3 days in I got a call from family saying my retriever went very limp and wouldn't eat. Long story short. The vet had a look inside and found huge rumours in his stomach, spleen, liver so on.. they were bleeding. I got the call and had to make the decision to leave him asleep.

The only signs I really though of was he wasn't eating as much but he was always picky eating. He was so energetic. I just feel so devastee that I didn't realise earlier. I had been so caught up with our new child that I just didn't have as much time and maybe I could've saved him. I feel so devasted. Literally feel like I've lost my own brother. I just don't know what to do


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Goldens are so stoic- and with hemangiosarcoma, they typically have only nuances one would notice until they start to bleed. Mourn your brother dog for what you lost and when your new child is a bit older, try to fill the big shoes he left. Don't feel you could have saved him- that's the biggest heartache of it, you could not have saved him. 

Put his pedigree on k9data and a photo and DOD and COD, it will give him a place in breed history. If you don't know how, post his reg papers here and someone will do it for you.
Contribute to the GRFoundation's Shine On fund- which is funding the research on the genes that play in this awful disease. 
Those are the two things I can think of that do good from such big bad. I'm so sorry.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I’m so sorry for your loss. What Prism Goldens said is very true. And when/if you’re ready, there is a whole rainbow bridge section on this forum that you might find comforting. You can share your journey and pictures. You will find many folks who have been in your shoes and willing/listening ears.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

I am so sorry for your loss of Duke. I can tell he lived a life of being well loved. Be at peace with yourself; knowing that if you could have done anything to save him, you would have. Like Prism said, with cancer like he had, there isn't anyway to save them. Many people on this forum understand your devastation.


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## Myduke (Dec 13, 2017)

He was only 5. I never knew cancer was so widespread in retrievers. The pain he would have known he was in. I'm just speechless.
I never would have thought an animal would have left such a hole in me


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

I'm so sorry for your loss of your boy.


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## Siandvm (Jun 22, 2016)

Myduke said:


> He was only 5. I never knew cancer was so widespread in retrievers. The pain he would have known he was in. I'm just speechless.
> I never would have thought an animal would have left such a hole in me


If it’s any small comfort, hemangiosarcoma is not really a painful disease. When they are not bleeding they usually feel pretty good, and when they are bleeding, they feel run down and tired but not painful. When it is a bad bleed at the end, it makes them weak, as your boy was, due to blood loss. But again, not painful. 
I’m so very sorry for your loss.


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## SKT (Oct 7, 2017)

I am so sorry for your loss. You did the right thing with the information you were given. Don’t look back and wonder what you could/should have done different. These beautiful dogs are such a big part of our lives, and it’s so hard when out of the blue you are hit with horrible news like this. It’s heartbreaking and there is just no way around it.


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## Simbadoo'smom (Dec 15, 2017)

Dear MyDuke,

I too am new on here and have come here to find comfort because I too have lost the love of my life, my sweet Simba, to this horrible disease, less than a week ago. He seemed normal and happy until last Tuesday, December 5th. He threw up after eating his breakfast, but I wasn't that concerned because this has happened occasionally over the last couple of years but not frequently, so I just assumed his tummy was upset like we humans get upset tummies sometimes. I went off to work and when I returned home it was obvious he wasn't feeling well at all. My husband had gotten home earlier and did take him out for a short walk and said he did notice he wasn't quite as energetic as usual and then came home and just laid down. He was not interested in e ating and it turns out he never at another meal. He did get up and go to his water bowl that night before we all went to sleep. The next morning I was actually debating about going to work and give it another day, but when I couldn't get him to even get up to go outside to relieve himself, in my heart I knew it was serious. He's 95 pounds so I had to wait until my husband could come home from work to help me get him in the car to to go to the vet, so I made a 3pm appointment. He had a 105 temp and hadn't eaten since Monday night or drank anything since the night before. He was drooling constantly. They put him on fluids and gave him medication to combat the nausea and fever, which did go down (the fever). They drew blood but were unsure of what the cause of his symptoms were. I think I recall them mentioning possible poisoning or a tick born illness. That night he was transferred to an overnight emergency clinic for continued fluids and observation.

So I go to pick him up on Thursday morning and the vet there says it's most likely a tick borne illness or an autoimmune disorder and told me to take him directly to his vet, which I did. He actually was on his feet and walked to the car (although he couldn't jump up and get in) which made me hopeful that he would be ok. I take him to his vet and want to stay with him but they told me to go home that they were treating him and they decided to take more blood to send off to pathology in order to narrow the focus of what we were dealing with. The results would not be in until the next day, Friday. I went to pick him up and bring him home hoping and praying he would somehow be feeling a little better, to be met with the disheartening news that he was worse. The vet said he wouldn't rise to relieve himself and continued to be unable to keep anything down other than some ice chips. Still I remained hopeful. This couldn't be happening. He's not even 9 years old yet. He would have had his ninth birthday in February. The next morning, I took him back to the vet for continued fluids and observation. The pathology report came back negative for a tick borne illness and I was told it was either autoimmune or cancer, which I refused to entertain the latter. How could it be cancer??? He was fine up until two days ago!!! They started treating him for an autoimmune issue since the tick borne illness had been ruled out but he didn't respond. He was sent back to the ER at the end of the day and I went to visit him early that evening, Friday, December 8,2017. My heart sunk when I say him, his breathing was labored and his belly was distended. The vet had done some additional tests, something about his pancreas was deteriorating and his kidney functioning was compromised. I stayed with him about an hour and told them to call me if he turned for the worse. After a couple of hours back home, I couldn't stand it and called. The vet told me his condition was continuing to worsen so my husband and I went back up there and I was basically told there was no hope and the right thing to do was to put him out of his suffering, which I did. I couldn't bear for him to suffer any more. He was worse than a few hours before.

I can't believe how fast it all happened. He was just gone. And I am devastated and searching for comfort. So I hope my story will somehow in a strange way comfort you to know you are not alone in your grief. 

For the love of a Golden, who truly have hearts of gold.

RIP my beautiful Simba. You will always be my baby.


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## BrennaB (Dec 15, 2017)

Simba and Dukes parents, I just went through this myself. It happened so fast. 
My boy was only 4. Monday night he ate his dinner just as enthusiastically as usual. About an hour later he threw it all up. He still acted ok though. 
Tuesday morning when we got up, he didn’t want to get up. Just laid there. We got him to go out with a lot of encouragement but he was wobbly on his feet. 
We took him to the vet. They did blood work which showed him anemic but they wanted us to take him to a specialty clinic 2 hrs away to have some scans/ultrasound done. Within 49 minutes they came back with his radiographs which showed cancer and tumors. He was only 4. 
We spent about an hour with him before doing as the vet suggested, we put him down. This all happened in less than a 24 hr period. I was and am still in shock. This was Tuesday, the 12th. 
My prayers go out to you as I know all too well what it feels like. We lost another a few years ago at only 6 with the same problem. I am heartbroken.


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## Peri29 (Aug 5, 2017)

Hello Everyone,

I am so sorry for your losses. Having gone through all this with my own dog and another friend's of ours, I still do not understand why you do not give any shot by making your dogs go under surgery. You never know . Maybe the tumor did not metastize ( my friend's dog went under surgery , it was already bleeding, they removed the tumor and the whole spleen , the patology came back. It's malign but no metastasis) or it is only hematoma ( my own girls). Please please again do not panic. You never know what you deal with unless you operate your dogs. If you already gave the decision to euthanize, it means you are strong enough to say goodby to your pets for their own good. However, I always believe since you take the risk of loosing your babies, you can always give them a chance to have operation. Maybe the outcome will be positive.


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## SKT (Oct 7, 2017)

It's hard enough to make the decision to say good bye to a treasured dog. When someone else says...why didn't you at least give it a chance and operate, well perhaps you don't really know the whole story. 

We check with our vets and family members and make the best decision we can. 

Our second golden Gracie age 11, collapsed she was rushed to the emergency vet, she was stabilized and the next day we chose to have her spleen removed, a week later she collapsed again and was rushed to the vet, she died. It was awful. 

Out of the blue our last golden Payton started acting like he didn't feel well, no warning he just was not himself, we took him to the emergency vet and found out he had fluid around his heart. They were able to drain it and the next day we made an hour drive to have a scan and see what was causing it, we found out he had a tumor in his heart, the vet said the operating was not an option. 
We chose to take him home give him lots of love and when we could tell he was not doing well again we made the heart wrenching decision to say goodbye. He also had a severe arrhythmia and he had just turned 7. 

I have read over and over again similar stories from other golden owners. They end up here because they are searching for answers. 
Please don't second guess someone's decision, it hurts enough loosing your dog with out someone saying, why didn't you operate?

I'm new here as well and It's taking me two months just to be able to write about what happened to my dogs. 

These dogs give us everything they have, even when they're sick.

Like I said before we make the best decision we can with what we know, so please don't even second guess what someone else does It's just not right.

I'm so sorry about Duke & Simba


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## Simbadoo'smom (Dec 15, 2017)

Brenna,

I am so so sorry. It's just so tragic and devastating to lose a beloved dog so quickly without warning. I am still struggling just to get through the day. It's all I can do to just go through the motions and I cry all the time. Sometimes, I just sit there with tears streaming down my face. Other times I wail in agony. Simba was my everything and he is irreplaceable. 

I hate this terrible disease and hope and pray one day strides will be made in lessening it's reach and devastation. 

I feel guilty about the food I fed him, not feeding him a raw, holistic diet. Maybe it would have made a difference. I don't think I'll ever be able to forgive myself. But honestly I didn't know. I thought I was feeding him decent food. This is the first Golden I've had. My previous dog, an Alaskan Malamute Husky mix, Toby, lived to the ripe old age of 16, and we fed him of all the horrible foods, Pedigree. We didn't know any better. But he still lived a long time and had no issues other than arthritis in the last year or so of his life.

I recently started reading "Cold noses at the Pearly Gates" and it's about the belief (the author's and mine) that our babies and all animals do go to heaven. Not dog heaven but the one and only. I don't know if you are spiritual or religious, but I thought I would mention it. It's helping me to have hope that I will see my beloved Simba again, as well as Toby and Pluto, my wolf mix who lived to about 15.

Know you are not alone in this time of suffering. It will get better, but I don't believe I will ever stop missing him. Not until I see him in heaven that is.

Dohna


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## Simbadoo'smom (Dec 15, 2017)

IDK why my profile pic isn't showing up. I want everyone to see a photo of my Simba.

I'll try to post one here.


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## Simbadoo'smom (Dec 15, 2017)

Thank you SKT. My sentiments exactly. In our situation, his condition declined so rapidly that I was made to feel by my vet and the emergency vet that there was nothing to be done. I didn't have a definitive diagnosis of cancer, but they strongly believed that to be the case as he wasn't responding to anything they were doing for him. There was no time for surgery. He was clearly suffering and I couldn't bear to let it go one any longer.

My vets told me that even if he made it to morning and had exploratory surgery (the x-rays at the EMERGENCY vet didn't detect an obvious mass, but it could have ruptured) and they found a tumor and removed it, based on the insidious nature of this disease (Hemongiosarcoma, which they believed to be the culprit) AND had chemo, in all likelihood it would give us a few more months at best, and at what cost to Simba?? I doubt he would have had a good quality of life. I felt it was better for him for me to let him go.


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## alphadude (Jan 15, 2010)

Just to chime in, I did in fact have the surgery performed on Ax. They removed his spleen and a lobe of his liver. When they were in there they noticed "multiple small metastasis" on what remained of his liver. The prognosis was 1 month. That bought him exactly 40 days, *maybe* half of them good. In retrospect, I am not sure I would put him through that again...


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## Simbadoo'smom (Dec 15, 2017)

alphadude said:


> Just to chime in, I did in fact have the surgery performed on Ax. They removed his spleen and a lobe of his liver. When they were in there they noticed "multiple small metastasis" on what remained of his liver. The prognosis was 1 month. That bought him exactly 40 days, *maybe* half of them good. In retrospect, I am not sure I would put him through that again...


It's a hard and very personal decision. I'm sure we all do what we think is best for my dogs. I really wasn't given any other options, like let's do exploratory surgery and see if we can find a removable tumor. All 3 vets involved said it they believe it was the right decision and in Simba's best interest. In his case, he didn't show obvious symptoms until it was too late. They were trying to keep him stable and comfortable but he just kept getting worse and I didn't want him to suffer anymore.


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## Peri29 (Aug 5, 2017)

Dear Skt,

I am not judging you or someone else. But just to tell you that sometimes really miracles happen. It really breaks my heart seeing so many people loosing their dogs to hemangiosarcoma. I went through this. It was an awful period. The first prof told me it's hemangiosarcoma widespread. Me, panic attack. Another one said , it did not spread but most probably malign due to blood results . Third one the same. The final one who operated did once more ultrasound and said the same. I only beg everyone who hear the word hemangiosarcoma not to panic as I did. It was not hemangiosarcoma but only hematoma.
And my friend's dog. They went to various vets and ended up in the capital city as I did.His story: One day after the walk he collapses. They rush to vet. He was not able to walk. Blood profile very very bad. Ultrasound showed a mass even multiple. The vet forwarded them also to the same vet I was. Once more ultrasound. Since his blood profile was so bad and he was not able to walk despite the 13 day immune therapy, they also suspected that he had not only mass but also a problem in the spine and they asked for an MR.The vet believed that Pasha would never be able to stand up after the operation since he was not able to walk with assistance. THe same evening my friend had a nervous breakdown. His boy has been at the vet since 13 days and the vet was not able to say anything clear nor take him under operation. So, my friend made a clear statement to the vet "Look, I will have my boy have an MR but afterwards I want the spine operation if sth is wrong and later on the splenoctomy. I do not know what has happened the same night. Pasha ( the day he was going to MR) stood up by himself and started walking!!! He was like to my friend "Mum, no need for MR just take me straight to operation. When the vet saw him walking he said "this was the sign I was expecting from Pasha and I take him to surgery. They opened him up and guess what... The tumor had ruptured already 2 weeks ago the minute he collapsed. But the layer of the stomach covered the mass like a balloon preventing it to bleed more. I do not know how to desribe it in English and technical English. Basically, this was a miracle. Because it takes max for a dog to die 48 hrs with a ruptured spleen so badly. They removed everything also the blood which was leaking . The patology arrived. It was malign as expected but not spread. Just a few days ago before this incident I remember very well my conversation with the vet. I was expecting another miracle for a cocker spaniel I rescued. He told me in a very straightforward way "Madame, I do not believe in miracles but in coincidences." After the operation he was telling us that it was A MIRACLE that Pasha had survived with a bleeding tumor since 2 weeks. 
Therefore, I only ask all of you not to give up . Especially with hemangiosarcoma ( except heart for which we really have almost no chance). Do not let the vets panic you. It is a very very difficult operation. And it takes a lot for a vet to be a good surgeon. Not every vet is capable of doing this operation even they claim so. According to the the first vet ( a prof at the faculty) my girl should have been already dead. According to her, it was so widespread. According to second & third "malign" but no clear meta was seen. However, my girl only with a hematoma ( spleen removed) happily sits next to me. 
If you do not believe in miracles such as of Pasha, at least please believe in coincidences. Coincidences may be positive / or negative one, but you never know. Do not make only the opinion of the vets your sole choice. It's worth giving a shot


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## Kayla2727 (Mar 28, 2017)

Please don't question your decision. It takes a lot of bravery and love to make that decision in the worst of possible circumstances. I have been there, and it's awful, and the pain will never fully go away, but you can't torture yourself with the "what ifs". Simba was a beautiful boy and obviously very loved and well cared for, something most dogs these days don't even get to experience sadly. You'll see him again, and in the mean time, he will never be far from your heart.

Attached is a photo of my boy, who I lost on Valentine's day of 2017 to this awful disease. I hope him and Simba have met up there and are sharing a bone or two.


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

I have to chime in to this discussion too. We lost one of our goldens in exactly this way. He was perfect in the morning and by 7pm he had collapsed. Off to the vet we went to find his tummy full of blood. We did opt for surgery and our vet did it in the middle of the night. We sat up with the vet and our sweet Pete all night long. Surgery was great but the tumor was hemangiosarcoma. As we know this can travel through the blood so who knows where it is. We lost our boy 2 weeks later and our vet felt it had gone to his brain. So I NEVER NEVER tell people AFTER they have made the decision to give their fur kids a gift of freedom from pain that they should have opted for surgery. MAYBE if someone asked me BEFORE that decision is made I could tell them about our Gussee who had a tumor on her spleen but she was not showing any signs of stress. That surgery did show a benign tumor so there are miracles.
To the OP IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT PLEASE DON'T BEAT YOURSELF UP. Hemganiosarcoma is sneaky and evil.


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## Simbadoo'smom (Dec 15, 2017)

Kayla, he is beautiful and I'm sure they are! I love that picture!

Dohna


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## BrennaB (Dec 15, 2017)

That is such a heartfelt response Dohna and I feel the exact same way about my Smoky. He was my sweet boy and I would have done anything to save him if I could. I SO hate that anyone else has to feel like this but it is comforting to have others to “talk” to that have experienced the same heartbreak. I still cry. 
I think the Christ as season has made it worse. I do t want to be happy because for one, I dont feel happy, and secondly, I feel like I am forgetting about him and the fact that he can’t be here this Christmas with us. Like he doesn’t matter. I know that’s ridiculous but that’s how I feel. 
I hope when the holiday season are all finished that life can become a little smoother. It will never be the same but I have been here before and I know that it will get easier. 
I hope you were able to have a good Christmas. I do believe they go to heaven. I know he is there with your Simba and they are getting so much love ❤.


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## BrennaB (Dec 15, 2017)

Peri29 said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I am so sorry for your losses. Having gone through all this with my own dog and another friend's of ours, I still do not understand why you do not give any shot by making your dogs go under surgery. You never know . Maybe the tumor did not metastize ( my friend's dog went under surgery , it was already bleeding, they removed the tumor and the whole spleen , the patology came back. It's malign but no metastasis) or it is only hematoma ( my own girls). Please please again do not panic. You never know what you deal with unless you operate your dogs. If you already gave the decision to euthanize, it means you are strong enough to say goodby to your pets for their own good. However, I always believe since you take the risk of loosing your babies, you can always give them a chance to have operation. Maybe the outcome will be positive.


As I have sat here crying my eyes out every single day since the 12th when we had to make the PAINFUL decision to put our boy down at only 4 years old I won’t even dignify this comment with my true feelings. Also, out of respect for the Forum administrators/moderators. 
I will say this. As someone else said, I came here for comfort and reassurance that I made the right decision. I have second guessed my decision on more than one occasion and everyone here, with one exception, have helped me tremendously to deal with this horrible event. You lack empathy. Period.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Peri29 said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I am so sorry for your losses. Having gone through all this with my own dog and another friend's of ours, I still do not understand why you do not give any shot by making your dogs go under surgery. You never know . Maybe the tumor did not metastize ( my friend's dog went under surgery , it was already bleeding, they removed the tumor and the whole spleen , the patology came back. It's malign but no metastasis) or it is only hematoma ( my own girls). Please please again do not panic. You never know what you deal with unless you operate your dogs. If you already gave the decision to euthanize, it means you are strong enough to say goodby to your pets for their own good. However, I always believe since you take the risk of loosing your babies, you can always give them a chance to have operation. Maybe the outcome will be positive.


I know you are in another country, and perhaps that is a piece of all your opinions on health care. When a person here takes responsible care and advice, and chooses to euthanize based on radiographs (which, in the case of Brenna's dog, showed multiple mets and zero chance of a fix) it is quite painful to have a person come on and suggest that the owner did not do enough, did not do the 'right' thing... it is done already and the owners who treasured that dog are in pain. I doubt you've ever seen multiple mets on radiograph so to judge a choice already made as wrong is just altogether mean of you- and I do not think you mean to be cruel but that's how it comes across. 
I hope your friend's dog's splenic hemangio really had not spread, but odds are it did. Hemangiosarcoma is a devious disease, one that is more often than not already taking up residence in any blood-rich organ before the first show of the heralding tumor makes a scan prudent.... I will always feel that it is better to see what you can, and make a decision to fix what you can and spare the beloved animal the pain and fear in going into a sterile atmosphere with people he does not know if the outcome is not likely to be a good one. Unfortunately, splenic masses are not hemangio in only 20% of the cases over age 6. Those aren't good odds. And removing the spleen doesn't give a dog more than a year in 90% of the cases. When you can see mets on a lung radiograph, removing the spleen isn't going to give the dog more time, and is going to cause him the pain of healing from a surgery.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

Peri29 said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I am so sorry for your losses. Having gone through all this with my own dog and another friend's of ours, I still do not understand why you do not give any shot by making your dogs go under surgery. You never know . Maybe the tumor did not metastize ( my friend's dog went under surgery , it was already bleeding, they removed the tumor and the whole spleen , the patology came back. It's malign but no metastasis) or it is only hematoma ( my own girls). Please please again do not panic. You never know what you deal with unless you operate your dogs. If you already gave the decision to euthanize, it means you are strong enough to say goodby to your pets for their own good. However, I always believe since you take the risk of loosing your babies, you can always give them a chance to have operation. Maybe the outcome will be positive.


I'm not sure why you would post such a thing in a thread like this, and then compound your lack of judgment with your follow-up post. You are, of course, entitled to write about your experience - this is a public forum - but it would have been nice if you had shown some sensitivity and started a separate thread, instead of doing it in a way that will obviously make the OP feel a lot worse about what happened to her dog. It was downright mean of you. Period.

I don't know what veterinary medicine is like in your part of the world, but here, diagnostic procedures are pretty accurate and people are given all the information they need to make their decisions. I lost a wonderful dog to cardiac hemangiosarcoma almost three years ago. The diagnosis was confirmed by several different procedures and four separate vets. I opted not to treat and not to subject her to further discomfort by prolonging the inevitable. We spent 24 hours doing all the things she loved, and then she was euthanized in our home, on her favourite cushion. Although that decision tore me apart, and while I'm still angry that I had to make it, I have never second-guessed it. I am, however, very glad that nobody was insensitive enough to start telling me about "miracles" and "coincidences" and suggest that maybe my dog would have survived if only I'd given her the chance. I don't understand why anyone would say such things to someone who is obviously grieving. It's completely beyond me.

To the OP: please don't second-guess, and please don't ever feel you did anything that wasn't in your dog's best interests. Many of us have been in your shoes and understand what you're going through. It's a crappy place to be. Please accept my sympathies. Kind thoughts are coming your way from Canada.


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## Artbuc1 (Sep 4, 2016)

OP, so sorry for your loss. It is easier said than done, but do not ever second your decision to euthanize your beloved pet. I have been through this many times over the decades. Two were especially difficult - my Tucker boy, a two yo GR with osteosarcoma and my beloved Buster lost to hemangio at 8 yo. Buster suffered much more than he had to because of a misdiagnosis. Another Golden boy, Murphy, was the sweetest dog you can imagine. When diagnosed with lymphoma, I was ready to let him go and my vet said chemo was a good option. We took his advice and Murphy did well. He lived another 3 wonderful years before he succumbed to a different cancer. There will always be uncertainty with any diagnosis and how any particular dog will respond to treatment. I have come to this conclusion. It is far better to let a dog go early than to have it suffer just to extend a marginal quality of life a few months or a year.


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## Peri29 (Aug 5, 2017)

I was not gonna respond any longer but since I am called a person with no empath,I guess it s time to reply.It's not lacking empathy.I am a rescue.I help dozens of dogs with health problems or not.Cancer,diabetis, paralyzed,tripods...For us animals are like our children.I would try anything but anything for my child to survive even with 1% of chance.And I would do the same with an animal which I rescue or my own dog.However,after all the trials&efforts if I see that he is suffering I woul let him go.I know many dog owners like that.They did financially & emotionally & physically seeked every possible solution to save their dogs life . You can call me really whatever you like but first comes for me saving lives.We owe them this since especially if they are own dog.Would your family give up on you if you had angiosarcoma without trying any solution.I do not think so.That s my firm belief and punto.


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## Artbuc1 (Sep 4, 2016)

Peri29 said:


> I was not gonna respond any longer but since I am called a person with no empath,I guess it s time to reply.It's not lacking empathy.I am a rescue.I help dozens of dogs with health problems or not.Cancer,diabetis, paralyzed,tripods...For us animals are like our children.I would try anything but anything for my child to survive even with 1% of chance.And I would do the same with an animal which I rescue or my own dog.However,after all the trials&efforts if I see that he is suffering I woul let him go.I know many dog owners like that.They did financially & emotionally & physically seeked every possible solution to save their dogs life . You can call me really whatever you like but first comes for me saving lives.We owe them this since especially if they are own dog.Would your family give up on you if you had angiosarcoma without trying any solution.I do not think so.That s my firm belief and punto.


You do not have to defend your beliefs but do not take offense if others disagree with you. To me, the first priority is to prevent pain/suffering, not saving a life. Comparing pets to children is silly. A saved child can live 80 years and they can mostly understand why they are enduring painful treatment. Our dogs depend on us for everything. They come to trust us so deeply and they can not understand why we are making them endure painful treatment. Yes, I would certainly do more for a young dog than one with only a couple years of remaining life expectancy, but under no circumstances would I make it suffer to pursue a 1% solution. Hemangiosarcoma? Yes, I would remove a dermal mass without a second thought. However, internal tumors are an entirely different story, especially if metastasized. How much pain suffering would you inflict on one of your “children” to keep it alive an extra couple months?

Your position is self contradictory. One one hand you say you would try anything but then you say you would stop if it started to suffer. Perhaps we have a very different notion of what constitutes suffering. Our dogs can not tell us they are suffering and they are instinctly adept at concealing pain, especially GR’s.


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## BrennaB (Dec 15, 2017)

Peri29 said:


> I was not gonna respond any longer but since I am called a person with no empath,I guess it s time to reply.It's not lacking empathy.I am a rescue.I help dozens of dogs with health problems or not.Cancer,diabetis, paralyzed,tripods...For us animals are like our children.I would try anything but anything for my child to survive even with 1% of chance.And I would do the same with an animal which I rescue or my own dog.However,after all the trials&efforts if I see that he is suffering I woul let him go.I know many dog owners like that.They did financially & emotionally & physically seeked every possible solution to save their dogs life . You can call me really whatever you like but first comes for me saving lives.We owe them this since especially if they are own dog.Would your family give up on you if you had angiosarcoma without trying any solution.I do not think so.That s my firm belief and punto.


Maybe you should quit responding. Your responses and comments just aren’t very supportive. Maybe this group isn’t the best fit for you. People here are looking for companionship in the form of friendship and fellowship, advice etc. I didn’t see the addin the pager for the one Debbie Dwner crawling.


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## Simbadoo'smom (Dec 15, 2017)

Brenna,

I know exactly how you feel. I feel exactly the same way. This Christmas was awful - I just wanted it to be over and to get back to business as usual. It's sad also because I just got married last summer for the second time and this was our first Christmas as a married couple and I was so unhappy. Thankfully, my husband is the best and he completely understood and supports me the best way he knows how. Also, I wasn't able to see either of my boys who are grown and both live in Europe - my youngest is in college over there and wanted to go visit his brother in Germany (he is in the Air Force) and go skiing, so that made it even worse.

I think I will always feel a little sad at Christmas time since that's when I lost my Simba, but I hope each year it will get a little better. This house just seems so empty without him.

Dohna


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## Artbuc1 (Sep 4, 2016)

Simbadoo’s mom, all I can say is it does get a little better every day. One day you will find yourself thinking about Simba’s silly antics and you will have a big smile on your face. I know what you mean re empty house. Rocky is by my side 24/7. Having him gone for only 8 hours during his recent outpatient surgery was difficult. I kept looking for him. He is our 7th dog and 6th GR. At our age, he will almost certainly be our last. I am not sure how I will cope without a dog as I am definitely not a people person. However, my wife has made many sacrifices over the years to accommodate my need for a doggy companion and my unwillingness to board them. After Rocky, I need to focus on her and her desire to travel and do some things before we get too old. I always thought Buster would be my last dog but he died so unexpectedly with hemangiosarcoma. I went 8 months before I found Rocky at a GR rescue where I volunteered. It was the worst, loneliest 8 months of my life.


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## Peri29 (Aug 5, 2017)

Dear,

I believe you have not read my initial message or I could not explain myself.

My point is;
- not to euthanize any animal ( in this case hemangiosarcoma) once "hemangiosarcoma" diagnosis is made. Metas are very difficult to asses via radio / or by best ultrasound even MR .Unfortunately, nothing is much clear unless you open up the dog. My point is to give it a shot, to make the dog go under operation and see with clear eyes what is going on inside , do biopsy and check for metas.
- if meta is seen than the choice is coming up. To tell goodbye or not.
HOWEVER;
if you have seen on my previous messages, I literally begged people not to be "scared" or hemangiosarcoma and give it a try.
I have also talked about a new treatment EBAT a kind of chemotherapy which is targeting the residual cancer tissues after operation. The classic chemo unfortunately does not give the dog much time because it cannot target such diffused cancerous cells.
EBAT is to be used after operation and prior to classic chemotherapy.

ONCE MORE TO REPEAT;
- I do not differentiate children from dogs. Does not matter they live long / or short. You take the responsibility of a live being ( by adopting, by giving birth or by buying) and in my opinion it's a wov to give your best emotionally & financially for his/her well being.
- I do not judge anyone who opts to euthanize his/her dog due to meta of hemangio BUT for that at least go under operation. One has already made his/her mind up for saying goodbye. Why not at least to use this strength and determination to CLEAR OUT all doubts by going under operation.
I can give all the sympaty / empathy for someone who have to euthanize his/her dog due to radical circumstances such as hemangiosarcoma meta( in this case the vet already decides even to close up the animal during operation) but cannot only with diagnosis.If there is the chance of survival, I will give the decision always for an op.
- However, I cannot distrube any empathy if no chance is given. I may sound radical. But my life is dedicated to save animals / children ( autistic). If one year or not, what is remaining I will give it a try if we are on the stage of "euthanisia".
Thank you


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Peri29 said:


> Dear,
> 
> My point is;
> - not to euthanize any animal ( in this case hemangiosarcoma) once "hemangiosarcoma" diagnosis is made. Metas are very difficult to asses via radio / or by best ultrasound even MR .Unfortunately, nothing is much clear unless you open up the dog. My point is to give it a shot, to make the dog go under operation and see with clear eyes what is going on inside , do biopsy and check for metas.
> - if meta is seen than the choice is coming up. To tell goodbye or not.


Peri29, the thing is- Brenna's dog HAD mets. They were unequivocally there. Not only that, you could clearly see that a mass was pushing the dog's organs out of their correct place. WHY would someone choose to undergo a surgery when a surgery is not going to change anything? I get what you're saying on cases that aren't so clearly diagnosable but when a person comes on a public forum and is critical of the care given and implies that not enough was done in a case like this, that is horribly hurtful. 
That is what I personally meant to say to you. You have posted things in the past that are not based in science, and that are inaccurate, and this is one of those times. Pretty much a 5 YO could have seen the mets on the dog's lungs. He was precious to their family, and to cut him open would have done both him and their family a disservice. There are NO Ifs, Ands, or Buts about that particular situation, none. If you care so much about life, why would you take a person's heart and stomp on it when there is nothing that could be reversed in the situation even if your words changed their thoughts? Is it your intention to make them feel badly all of the rest of their days? If you have strong feelings about euthanasia, make your own thread and post them there- don't make people hurt more or second guess the hardest choice they've ever made. 
Secondarily, dogs are NOT humans they are dogs. Their life span is far shorter than ours and they can benefit from euthanasia. To equate them with a human child is to play right into the AR people's hands- and it appears to me that you are an AR person which you are entitled to be if you want, but AR will surely in the end have no one having dogs as pets, no one having a breeding program, no purebred dogs at all.


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## Artbuc1 (Sep 4, 2016)

Peri29 said:


> Dear,
> 
> I believe you have not read my initial message or I could not explain myself.
> 
> ...


You explained yourself well. Why can’t you accept others may not agree with you? My dogs are not children and they are not available for lab experiments.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

Peri29 said:


> Dear,
> 
> I believe you have not read my initial message or I could not explain myself.


You explained yourself well. I think it is you who may not have read or understood the reactions to your comments. To sum up:

*Please stop posting in this thread and *_*start your own thread.*_The OP came here looking for empathy, which you have stated you are unable to give. Once you've established that, to keep battering her with your views, as you have done, is downright_ mean _and _unpleasant_. Leave her alone. The way you're doing this is starting to look like cyberbullying.

You're just as entitled to post your views as anyone else. Nobody has a problem with that. What I and others have a problem with is the fact that you're posting your views in a thread where they don't belong.


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## Peri29 (Aug 5, 2017)

I have no problem anyone agreeing with me or not. I just stated my opinion. I didn't know that Brenna's dog had metas .By the way, 2 told me the same, 2 vet said no metastasis to be seen . However, things could be different when they opened up. They said metas were seen for my friend's dog. And no metas according to patology. 
However, once more I want to say "please do not be afraid of any hemangiosarcoma diagnosis". Things can work out quite differently.
All those people also went through splenectomy experience and most of them are grateful. Hematoma, hemangio, hemangiosarcoma can really puzzle the vets also. Therefore, I am always pro-op.http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/other-pets/120404-life-without-spleen.html
Many thanks


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Peri29 said:


> I have no problem anyone agreeing with me or not. I just stated my opinion. I didn't know that Brenna's dog had metas .By the way, 2 told me the same, 2 vet said no metastasis to be seen . However, things could be different when they opened up. They said metas were seen for my friend's dog. And no metas according to patology.
> However, once more I want to say "please do not be afraid of any hemangiosarcoma diagnosis". Things can work out quite differently.
> All those people also went through splenectomy experience and most of them are grateful. Hematoma, hemangio, hemangiosarcoma can really puzzle the vets also. Therefore, I am always pro-op.http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/other-pets/120404-life-without-spleen.html
> Many thanks


REALLY? really? It should be obvious at this point that your pro-op opinion _on this thread_ isn't appreciated. Start another thread if you must.


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## Mayabear (Aug 26, 2015)

Honestly, if you want this discussion to end for the sake of the OP and anyone else, kindly stop responding. It has spiraled into point-counterpoint. Clearly it is quite polarizing; one party feels very strongly and is unrelenting and will continue to defend his hypothesis. 

To the OP, I'm sorry you went through this experience. My thoughts and best wishes are with you.


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## BrennaB (Dec 15, 2017)

Peri29 said:


> I have no problem anyone agreeing with me or not. I just stated my opinion. I didn't know that Brenna's dog had metas .By the way, 2 told me the same, 2 vet said no metastasis to be seen . However, things could be different when they opened up. They said metas were seen for my friend's dog. And no metas according to patology.
> However, once more I want to say "please do not be afraid of any hemangiosarcoma diagnosis". Things can work out quite differently.
> All those people also went through splenectomy experience and most of them are grateful. Hematoma, hemangio, hemangiosarcoma can really puzzle the vets also. Therefore, I am always pro-op.http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/other-pets/120404-life-without-spleen.html
> Many thanks


Omg, GO AWAY already.


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## Simbadoo'smom (Dec 15, 2017)

They do leave a HUGE void in your life. I am waiting a few months until I get through my busy time at work (I'm a CPA) and not having a dog is difficult. Your wife sounds like a Saint. I think she does deserve to travel before you get another. 

Funny, your comment about not being a people person. The lady I took Simba to doggie daycare has a sign on her porch that says "Dogs are welcome, Humans are tolerated". I always loved that!


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