# How Long is Too Long?



## jpalamaro (Apr 1, 2017)

Posted on this before but I'm now at wit's end. Either I succumb to Boomer's not eating kibble or wait him out. Nothing physically wrong, will eat kibble laced with white meat chicken, broth, hamburger, etc. But will snub the kibble (tried many brands with little of no success), as the only thing to get him to eat is lace the kibble with chicken broth, chicken (loves Swanson's or Bumblebee's canned), etc.


Frankly, I'm tired and frustrated and have of course read about holding out long enough and eventually he will eat. Humans can fast for quite some time as long as there's water. Has anyone gone beyond the 1 1/2 days I've tried, which was still unsuccessful, however, once I doctor kibble up, and eats voraciously. His health is excellent, over 65 lbs at 10 months old, demeanor and activity level, excellent.


In case I was not clear, I am not looking for ways to get Boomer to eat. I'm am on a mission to get him to eat (dry) kibble and not have to fuss with doctoring up his meal(s). Specifically, has anyone had success beyond the 1 1/2 days I have held out doctoring, and, did it work or am I doomed to doing this forever?


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

I was where you are now many years ago with a Corgi that I had. Rina refused to eat dog food unless there was chicken broth, beef broth or chicken in it. It began because she had giardia when we got her and because of her problems we ended up feeing her chicken and rice for quite a while. She became accustomed to this and when she was returned to a diet of dog food she turned her nose up at it. In desperation I began adding chicken broth, beef broth or chicken to it in order to get her to eat. It was a mistake. I basically trained to her to hold out for something better than the kibble that she should have been eating. Unfortunately that it what you have also done. 
I finally took Rina to the vet in absolute desperation. My vet at the time was an older country vet. Very no nonsense. He looked at me like I was crazy when I told him what I had been doing to get Rina to eat and said, "Well, if I was offered a choice between a filet mignon and a bologna sandwich every night for dinner I would take the filet mignon every single time. That is what Rina is doing. Stop giving her a choice." He told me to offer her kibble. Leave the bowl down for 20 minutes. If she didn't eat take it up and offer it again a few hours later. If she still refused to eat take the bowl away. He told me that a dog will not allow itself to starve if there is food available but will hold out for "something better" if it thinks the opportunity was going to present itself and I had basically trained her to hold out for a better meal. 
I took his advice. It was a fairly long process. Rina refused to eat for 2 days at first but I held firm. Finally, after 2 days she ate the kibble. I thought we were home free but the next day she refused to eat again. This process went on for several weeks where she would refuse food and would not eat for a few days until hunger drove her to eat the kibble. After about a month of this it was as if a light bulb went off in the dog's head and she realized that there was never going to be anything BUT dog food in her bowl and she began eating the kibble on a regular basis. Everything went well until my parents dog sat Rina and immediately caved in and fed her people food when she refused to eat her kibble while at their house. It took several weeks for me to break this habit when I returned from vacation. 
Assuming that Boomer has no underlying medical conditions he is NOT going to allow himself to starve when there is food available. You just have to hold firm and only offer him kibble. Right now he has trained you to provide him with something he considers to be better (chicken broth and kibble) and he knows that you will provide that if he holds out long enough. You need to show him that this is not going to happen from this point on. No more chicken broth, no more people food of any kind. Kibble and kibble alone. It will take time and he may not eat for a few days. When he realizes that nothing besides kibble is going to be available he will eat. He will not allow himself to starve.


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## Siandvm (Jun 22, 2016)

Agreed -- if you hold firm, he will eat it. However, if you cave, it trains him that if he waits long enough, he gets what he wants, causing him to hold out longer each time. So, if you think that you will not be able to outlast him, I offer an alternative -- wean him off the goodies. So, if you were mixing his kibble with, say, 8oz of broth, tomorrow do 7oz, keep it at 7 for a day or 2, then decrease to 6oz, etc. Or, you can try watering the broth down instead (7oz broth +1oz water, then 6oz broth+2oz water, etc.) -- there's nothing wrong with water- soaked kibble, if that's ok with you. Same concept with solids -- figure out how much he has been getting, and gradually decrease it.


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

What kind of kibble are you feeding him? Maybe to him its awful, have you tried something different?


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## jpalamaro (Apr 1, 2017)

G-Bear et al, you lived what I'm living. Bout with giardia, weeks of boiled chicken, rice, broth, and wouldn't go back to kibble unless severe doctoring. So, old vet's advice going to be taken for sure now that I have affirmed, but only suspected, I'm being worked! Used to be a good eater prior to the giardia bout, rice, chicken, broth diet. Why, BTW, I'm not sure that it (rice, chicken) did much to abate the effects of giardia and as the Flagyl was what worked, and in retrospect and future, I'd have left him on Kibble. 


Oh, was on Royal Canin prior to, never an eating problem, have tried Purina ProPlan, Merrick's, etc assuredly, NO KIBBLE, BUT THROW IN A CAN OF SWANSON'S WHITE MEAT CHICKEN AND ATTENDANT BROTH, WOW, EATS LIKE NO TOMORROW. LOL.


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## jpalamaro (Apr 1, 2017)

Some progress, Boomer went almost 36 hours snubbing kibble, but succumbed, reluctantly on third scheduled feeding as I watched him eat with minimal enthusiasm. But, I can see this might be a long term changed, as G-Bear indicated, that is, this is going to take a while. This morning's feeding will be a major 'tell' but I can almost see rejection before I put out his fresh feed and water bowls. LOL. 


Again, thanks for your support. And for the people perhaps jumping in, his health, demeanor, energy, fine.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

jpalamaro said:


> Some progress, Boomer went almost 36 hours snubbing kibble, but succumbed, reluctantly on third scheduled feeding as I watched him eat with minimal enthusiasm. But, I can see this might be a long term changed, as G-Bear indicated, that is, this is going to take a while. This morning's feeding will be a major 'tell' but I can almost see rejection before I put out his fresh feed and water bowls. LOL.
> 
> 
> Again, thanks for your support. And for the people perhaps jumping in, his health, demeanor, energy, fine.


Are you feeding him the same kibble he was eating when he had giardia? It may be that he associates it with being ill and feeling bad. 

If you do want to try switching kibble, you could get a small bag of a food like EN (Purina) or ID (Hills?) from your vet. They are both bland, easy to digest, and you can switch to them cold turkey, without upsetting your dog's GI tract. Then you can slowly stay mixing in a new kibble over a few week and see if that helps. Maybe if you are feeding a meat-based food, try a salmon one or something? Just an idea.


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## jpalamaro (Apr 1, 2017)

No, have purchased a number of kibbles, and he's an equal opportunity 'snubber', tho' having minimal success as he gets more hungry and will disdainfully eat 'some', perhaps a cup or less before totally abandoning. I remove the dish after 20 minutes and await next feeding time/evening. I see some progress but for sure it's a delicate balance of I not 'caving' and he not eating. But, I actually see a day in the future where this will be a distant memory. LOL.


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## oceanlady (Mar 29, 2017)

Thanks for the link to your post. We tried regular food just to see if it was the kibble or if he was sick. Looks like my dog has figured out same thing if he holds out he gets something better.

I think my hubby gave him tiny tastes while cooking. I will immediately tell him not to anymore.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

jpalamaro said:


> No, have purchased a number of kibbles, and he's an equal opportunity 'snubber', tho' having minimal success as he gets more hungry and will disdainfully eat 'some', *perhaps a cup or less before totally abandoning.* I remove the dish after 20 minutes and await next feeding time/evening. I see some progress but for sure it's a delicate balance of I not 'caving' and he not eating. But, I actually see a day in the future where this will be a distant memory. LOL.


Maybe you are expecting him to eat more than he wants at one sitting? My dog only gets one cup of food at a time. One cup in the morning, one cup in the afternoon, and about a half cup in the evening. 

I'd continue with putting it down for 20 minutes and lifting it. One cup. If he doesn't eat it, put it back in the bag or container (so it doesn't get stale) and then try again five hours later. I also think he will eventually eat.


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## jpalamaro (Apr 1, 2017)

There's an element of fact and truth in your comment in that Boomer always devoured his kibble, per the 'bag' amounts, based on age and weight. There's also a definite correlation between his exercise regimen, how many miles I walked him and the number of time I let him tear around the yard at warp speed, plus playing 'fetch'. However, I've read and affirmed by a GR friend tht GR's are uhhhhhh, hogs, and literally will eat themselves to sickness. I used to think that of Boomer, but at just 10 months perhaps his food needs more balanced. This morning he ate about 1 1/2 cups which is excellent for him, but seemed to lack the LIVE TO EAT demeanor as opposed to the EAT TO LIVE? Ah well, excellent progress and good advice from all.


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## jpalamaro (Apr 1, 2017)

I'm starting to see light at end of tunnel. Tonight's/evening feeding went smoothly and Boomer engaged his kibble with enthusiasm. I'm trying not to get excited, but this is big news for me. LOL.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Maybe it is the kibble. Max has never had a problem eating. However, when we switched him to an adult food when he was about 16 months old, we did a taste test. The pet store gave us 7 different kibble samples and at dinner time we put each out on a separate plate. Max definitely had a favorite and and continues to eat that food 5 years later. We thought he would gobble up all the food out there, but only ate all the food of his favorite. The others he either had one small bite or only sniffed it. The food he preferred was Acana Wild Prairie which has changed to Acana Meadowland.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

I can't remember how big Boomer is, but another thing to keep in mind is that kibble expands in their stomachs - a LOT. So one cup of food can feel more like three cups in their stomach. I find it shocking when Shala throws up 1-2 hours after eating. The sheer volume of food that comes up is amazing. But it's just because the kibble has expanded. 

It's true, many Goldens eat really fast and would eat until they are sick. But not all. Shala eats quite slowly - it takes her 1-2 minutes to eat one cup of food. I'm sure she would eat a bit more if I gave it to her, but I'm not convinced she would eat, say, two cups at one sitting. I would forget about what the bag says, and go by what Boomer eats well. If he eats 1.5 cups well at a sitting, and does that twice a day, and he is a good weight, then continue with that. If it seems like too much, reduce to one and quarter cup, or one cup per sitting.


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