# Twin leaf golden retriever kennel Stay away they are financially strapped, read my story below



## Margherite Crable (Jan 20, 2021)

Fleeced said:


> My daughter recently placed a deposit for a new puppy with this kennel. The owner Margie Crable I asked my daughter for an additional $500 when the mother was having a C-section for delivery of the puppies. The initial deposit of $500 was placed on November 12 and the second $500 was given to her on December 1. She sent over 100 text messages to my daughter with photos and messages and on January 7 my daughter sent her a text message requesting an update since she had not heard anything for three weeks and that’s when she was informed that the owner decided to keep the dog because of its show quality potential and that it would not be happy with my daughter. You can imagine my daughter had been waiting almost 3 months with anticipation for this dog and then the lady just pulls the rug out from underneath her. I contacted her earlier today and she made up a story that my daughter was living in an apartment which is not true she is living in a house with her girlfriend with a big backyard in Kennedy Township. So where this lady is getting her information is ridiculous. So she had two stories of why she was not going to sell the dog anymore to my daughter the first was that she was keeping it for show potential and second was that she told my daughter she was living in an apartment. She is refusing to give back the $1000 to my daughter who is just starting up her own business and with Covid has been struggling but yet she has made the payments requested of her. Now this owner Margie is giving her a sob story that she is going through a divorce as if that would have an impact on giving back the money to my daughter of a transaction that was never completed as promised. I am getting the word out to everyone on this website that Twinleaf golden retriever is shady and they are cash strapped due to personal things going on in the owners life. Now she is giving my daughter anxiety attacks which she’s going to have to deal with and get help and pay for medical assistance due to this owner. The owner screamed at me on the phone when I called and then hung up so I have taken to social media and posting the story on LinkedIn with my 25,000 followers along with Facebook and Instagram I have sent directly to several kennels of which I have private messages back from many stating they can’t believe a kennel would do this in they are giving their industry a bad name by doing things like this. On Friday of this week my attorneys are meeting with me and we are going to file a claim in court and then we are going to get an order from the judge to put a lien on her business so she won’t be able to sell any more puppies in just a few weeks so her next litter which is due February 14 she will not be legally allowed to sell those. do not deal with this kennel and please tell all of your friends the same because this lady is desperate and you know people do desperate things when they are financially strapped. I just want $1000 return to my daughter. I promise this lady is going to lose more than $1000 if she wants to go down the legal path with me.


What the father of this client has not shared… Is that his daughter is living in an apartment. She has another golden retriever. In the description of the application I was told that they had a very big yard and a place to exercise the dog. It explains very clearly on my website that Breeder has the right to retain a show quality dog. In this particular litter there were three puppies and Indie this was a show quality pup. In addition to that the temperament of the puppy was not fitting of the description in which she asked for which was a lovinIt explains very clearly on my website that Breeder has the right to retain a show quality dog. In this particular litter there were three puppies and Indie this was a show quality pup. In addition to that the temperament of the puppy was not fitting of the description in which she asked for which was a Family pet that would fit into her home. There were two other people on the waiting list that which were also waiting for puppies and would be transitioned to my next waiting list due in February. Understanding Rachel‘s disappointment and anticipating her puppy I gave her the option of pick of the litter in the next two litters as far as a female puppy was concerned.
I messaged Rachel today explaining that I would be returning $500 to her tomorrow. This father obviously loves his daughter and rightly so. But to handle business in this manner to me,is unprofessional.


----------



## Fleeced (Jan 19, 2021)

What you wrote you must have received information from Margie the owner at the kennel. My daughter is living in a house with her girlfriend and there is a big backyard and I can supply Ariel views of the house. She is not living in an apartment. Where she is getting that information or making it up I have no freaking idea but you don’t know the whole story of what she has told Rachel. First she told her that she was keeping the dog because it is for show and she wants to keep it and then in the same breath she goes on about this apartment which Rachel is not living in. The lady just needs money because she’s going through a bad divorce and she is financially strapped. Don’t state what you believe or facts without supporting information and only getting it from the person who is committing the crimes.


----------



## Rion05 (Jan 4, 2016)

Margherite Crable said:


> What the father of this client has not shared… Is that his daughter is living in an apartment. She has another golden retriever. In the description of the application I was told that they had a very big yard and a place to exercise the dog. It explains very clearly on my website that Breeder has the right to retain a show quality dog. In this particular litter there were three puppies and Indie this was a show quality pup. In addition to that the temperament of the puppy was not fitting of the description in which she asked for which was a lovinIt explains very clearly on my website that Breeder has the right to retain a show quality dog. In this particular litter there were three puppies and Indie this was a show quality pup. In addition to that the temperament of the puppy was not fitting of the description in which she asked for which was a Family pet that would fit into her home. There were two other people on the waiting list that which were also waiting for puppies and would be transitioned to my next waiting list due in February. Understanding Rachel‘s disappointment and anticipating her puppy I gave her the option of pick of the litter in the next two litters as far as a female puppy was concerned.
> I messaged Rachel today explaining that I would be returning $500 to her tomorrow. This father obviously loves his daughter and rightly so. But to handle business in this manner to me,is unprofessional.


So perhaps return the $1000 and perhaps let this young lady obtain a golden from another breeder? It sounds like breeder and potential owner are not a good match at this point. So returning the full deposit would be the best way to handle this?


----------



## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

I agree. Return the full $1000 and go your separate ways.


----------



## Margherite Crable (Jan 20, 2021)

Rion05 said:


> So perhaps return the $1000 and perhaps let this young lady obtain a golden from another breeder? It sounds like breeder and potential owner are not a good match at this point. So returning the full deposit would be the best way to handle this?


This is exactly what I told the client as a matter of fact I was shocked that her father chose to make this post because ours earlier I let her know that her deposit was coming tomorrow. It was confusing to me… But maybe she had not yet told her father we had that communication.


----------



## Margherite Crable (Jan 20, 2021)

Fleeced said:


> What you wrote you must have received information from Margie the owner at the kennel. My daughter is living in a house with her girlfriend and there is a big backyard and I can supply Ariel views of the house. She is not living in an apartment. Where she is getting that information or making it up I have no freaking idea but you don’t know the whole story of what she has told Rachel. First she told her that she was keeping the dog because it is for show and she wants to keep it and then in the same breath she goes on about this apartment which Rachel is not living in. The lady just needs money because she’s going through a bad divorce and she is financially strapped. Don’t state what you believe or facts without supporting information and only getting it from the person who is committing the crimes.


----------



## Margherite Crable (Jan 20, 2021)

Is there a way to post a picture of the application here on the thread? When it comes to someone accusing me of lying that’s where I draw the line. I’d be happy to post the application to show you the address and the apartment number of what the client filled out. The very last question on my puppy application is will you allow the breeder or breeders associate to do a home visit? The client answered yes. Either the information on the application is false, Or the story is being made up as we go along. Father of the client if you wish to continue this charade I think you better review the information.


----------



## klar (Nov 1, 2020)

To the buyer: 
The breeder has the right at any time to refuse you a puppy and for any reason. They technically don't even have to give a reason beside I don't want to sell you a puppy. In order for you to guarantee you will get a puppy, you must sign a contract. I signed the contract for my puppy the day I got her so before then the breeder could have refused me a puppy at any point. Although I understand that it is tough to accept, you have to imagine picking someone to give one of your own children. 

To the breeder:
Did the buyer pick out a puppy already? If so, why were they allowed to pick a puppy before they were evaluated for show potential? Did you have them sign a contract for the deposit? My breeder had me sign one that just stated what I was paying for and that the deposit was refundable if there was no puppy for me. If you don't have that sort of thing, I would recommend you start doing it so there is no confusion in the future.


----------



## Dunmar (Apr 15, 2020)

Asking for an extra $500 and then refusing the pup is bad business. Over $1000 of this persons money is gone and half of it was to pay for the birth of her pup which was now denied. 

As for a apt # or house number.. when some places have mail boxes all in one lump area the address will read 1408 east woodman drive #8. It doesn't always mean it is an apartment, it could be a gated community or where they have to drive to a central area in their neighborhood to get their mail. That should have been considered long before she was promised a puppy. 

If I was the breeder, I'd return all the money and claim it as not a good match 

If I was the buyer, I would speak to my lawyer


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Ms Crable, while it is absolutely your right to keep show potential, it appears you have looked for an excuse. If you knew this girl had an address that appears to be an apartment why did you take initial $500? And to ask for a second $500 for a section, that's just bad business on your end. You should have the funds at hand to care for your bitch. Period. You owe this girl $1000 (not $500 as you posted earlier) and need to quickly be getting it to her. No dragging it out or holding any part of it. It sounds like you have til Friday to do so and I know of judges granting this sort of order so if it were me I would be taking cash over there.


----------



## Dunmar (Apr 15, 2020)

I did move this to a more appropriate forum, if there actually is one?


----------



## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Margherite Crable said:


> Is there a way to post a picture of the application here on the thread? When it comes to someone accusing me of lying that’s where I draw the line. I’d be happy to post the application to show you the address and the apartment number of what the client filled out. The very last question on my puppy application is will you allow the breeder or breeders associate to do a home visit? The client answered yes. Either the information on the application is false, Or the story is being made up as we go along. Father of the client if you wish to continue this charade I think you better review the information.


No personal information such as a person's address can be posted on the Forum per the Forum Rules for privacy and security reasons because this is a Public Forum. 

_*Situations like this are much better handled in private.*_

Topics can be found by doing a Google Search or using any other search engine with links directly to the thread on the GRF. 









GRF Board Rules & Registration Agreement


General information about posts/thread and account on GRF This general information statement is to make all members of Golden Retriever Forum aware that we do not delete posts or threads (unless it is unwanted commercial advertising = "Spam"). Please think before you post as anything you post...




www.goldenretrieverforum.com


----------



## Margherite Crable (Jan 20, 2021)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> No personal information such as a person's address can be posted on the Forum per the Forum Rules for privacy and security reasons because this is a Public Forum.
> 
> _*Situations like this are much better handled in private.*_
> 
> ...


I very much appreciate all of the input. The Puppy pick up day was Last week and I was trying to make the situation a win-win by offering the client another puppy ( First pic choice) my next litter. I also mentioned that I would return the deposit if this was not acceptable. Our communications were clean clear and acceptable until the clients father got involved and chose to bring this to light in this manner. I totally agree!


----------



## Dunmar (Apr 15, 2020)

Margherite Crable said:


> I very much appreciate all of the input. The Puppy pick up day was Last week and I was trying to make the situation a win-win by offering the client another puppy ( First pic choice) my next litter. I also mentioned that I would return the deposit if this was not acceptable. Our communications were clean clear and acceptable until the clients father got involved and chose to bring this to light in this manner. I totally agree!


Even though you believe she lives in an apartment, you were going to give her pick of next litter after she helped pay for the C section of this litter? 
I don't blame them for being angry.


----------



## gr56 (May 11, 2019)

Is it me or did the dad call out his daughter to being finically unsound to be able to care for a dog?
Yes obviously a refund is needed.

but he makes its sound like she could barely scrape together the deposit.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I think $1k would be a lot for any young person to come up with without planning. And I also think there is zero reason to ever breed a litter if a breeder cannot afford the c-section if needed. CERTAINLY asking buyers to help fund the section is low-class and unethical especially if one is going to deny the puppy. And really- lets be honest- 'show' ? This breeder shows in Int shows- which are much like matches, and every dog there can end up w a CH in a weekend. It's hardly 'showing' to my mind- more like, practice showing.
And to offer first pick in later litter, that too is suspect to me- given she's apparently not good enough for this litter when she helped pay for the section? SMH...


----------



## CCoopz (Jun 2, 2020)

Margherite Crable said:


> I very much appreciate all of the input. The Puppy pick up day was Last week and I was trying to make the situation a win-win by offering the client another puppy ( First pic choice) my next litter. I also mentioned that I would return the deposit if this was not acceptable. Our communications were clean clear and acceptable until the clients father got involved and chose to bring this to light in this manner. I totally agree!


What about the £500 for the c-section ontop of the deposit so £1000 refund should be given? Despicable to me to breed dogs if you can’t afford to look after them when they need vet intervention. Never heard of asking the buyers to pay for it c-section! 

I think people smell a rat as your logic is illogical. Why would you offer the buyer another choice from a future litter if you have already excluded them for living in a flat? 

I would listen to PrismGolden about previous rulings on such matters not going the way you would like and pay up and behave more responsibly for yourself, the buyers but most importantly for the dogs in your care.


----------



## Dunmar (Apr 15, 2020)

gr56 said:


> Is it me or did the dad call out his daughter to being finically unsound to be able to care for a dog?
> Yes obviously a refund is needed.
> 
> but he makes its sound like she could barely scrape together the deposit.


I don't have $500 to be giving to people to use right now either, yet I take care of my dog and can provide basic care and medical attention as needed. You do what you need to do for your animals but giving extra money to a breeder who won't give you a dog isn't in anyone's budget


----------



## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

In my mind any breeder that is offering to allow the client "first pick" is not really holding back puppies with show potential. The breeder should be doing litter evaluations and placing puppies in proper homes, no pick to it. 

If you can't afford the unexpected expense of a C-Section do not breed your dog. Things go wrong and that is why breeding is not really a for profit business when done correctly. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## gr56 (May 11, 2019)

Dunmar said:


> I don't have $500 to be giving to people to use right now either, yet I take care of my dog and can provide basic care and medical attention as needed. You do what you need to do for your animals but giving extra money to a breeder who won't give you a dog isn't in anyone's budget


We can all agree the circumstances was no good all around.
However at that moment she was getting a dog.

Set aside the fact extra money was asked for 
( breeder should have had finances in order to address the health of her own dog)

If she was struggling with said deposits what about the rest of the transaction if everything had gone along as planned? Idk I think before someone gets a puppy they need to be financial sound. Emergencies happen and if this daughter is struggleing to keep her new business afloat, all together may not be best time for a puppy


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

two things- " She is refusing to give back the $1000 to my daughter who is just starting up her own business and with Covid has been struggling but yet she has made the payments requested of her. "
that doesn't say daughter is struggling to live to me. It says she's struggling w a new business but clearly this girl has resources- parents who care and likely would help if asked. As well, the whole apartment thing is an excuse. and then this: 


DblTrblGolden2 said:


> In my mind any breeder that is offering to allow the client "first pick" is not really holding back puppies with show potential. The breeder should be doing litter evaluations and placing puppies in proper homes, no pick to it.
> 
> If you can't afford the unexpected expense of a C-Section do not breed your dog. Things go wrong and that is why breeding is not really a for profit business when done correctly. Just my 2 cents.


I agree. This is not really a breeding program with 'show dogs'- there are no AKC CH's there. And it's not likely this breeder is going to start handing out cash to handlers to finish this puppy or any other of her dogs. Int CH is an easy 'everyone gets a trophy' kinda thing.


----------



## CCoopz (Jun 2, 2020)

I think Fleeced and Margherite have used the platform to air their grievances and scarpered by their (more so the latter) lack of response to us. So personally not much point us continuing to nit pick over it. 

Good luck to the ‘buyer’ getting their money back. I hope they will use this forum to educate themselves with the knowledge needed to identify an ethical breeder.


----------



## Dunmar (Apr 15, 2020)

gr56 said:


> We can all agree the circumstances was no good all around.
> However at that moment she was getting a dog.
> 
> Set aside the fact extra money was asked for
> ...


My husband and I are also business owners. It is hard nowadays to keep things going smoothly, you need a solid nest egg for the unexpected. She had the money the breeder asked from her and extra. She doesn't sound like she is struggling to live.


----------



## gr56 (May 11, 2019)

Dunmar said:


> My husband and I are also business owners. It is hard nowadays to keep things going smoothly, you need a solid nest egg for the unexpected. She had the money the breeder asked from her and extra. She doesn't sound like she is struggling to live.


Is a deposit the full expense, or later an amount expected to be paid? My experience with deposits is about half the price of pups once on the ground and then the rest of price is paid at a later date.


----------



## ChrisFromOC (Sep 19, 2018)

Maybe we need to start a mediation forum ...


----------



## Dunmar (Apr 15, 2020)

gr56 said:


> Is a deposit the full expense, or later an amount expected to be paid? My experience with deposits is about half the price of pups once on the ground and then the rest of price is paid at a later date.


She had to help pay for the c section


----------



## gr56 (May 11, 2019)

Dunmar said:


> She had to help pay for the c section


Idk if I’m just miscommunicating what hypothetical I was trying to get at.
It’s not a big deal.just beyond all the drama of this situation I would expect to be paying around $2500 and up for a dog. Not a $1000.If things had panned out for this girl I imagine the c-section addition would have been deducted from final cost. But there is too many “whats ifs” and “assumptions” to truely talk this through point I was getting at. So overall it’s a moot point that I shouldn’t have attempted.


----------



## CCoopz (Jun 2, 2020)

gr56 said:


> Idk if I’m just miscommunicating what hypothetical I was trying to get at.
> It’s not a big deal.just beyond all the drama of this situation I would expect to be paying around $2500 and up for a dog. Not a $1000.If things had panned out for this girl I imagine the c-section addition would have been deducted from final cost. But there is too many “whats ifs” and “assumptions” to truely talk this through point I was getting at. So overall it’s a moot point that I shouldn’t have even attempted.


I don’t think it was said anywhere that the final cost of the puppy would only be £1000. The women paid a £500 deposit, not final sale price, then another £500 towards the c-section. So most likely the final sale price would have been more than £1000 which the young women had factored in to pay otherwise she wouldn’t have paid the deposit. 

I think the point is that the seller has run off with £1000 of the young women’s money. 

I have a GR that I can afford to keep, even spoil with toys and chews, pay a groomer regularly, and pay vet bills (although I have comprehensive insurance, we have to pay upfront then get a refund). 

But I would still sorely miss $1000 of my hard earned money when I have nothing to show for it!


----------



## gr56 (May 11, 2019)

CCoopz said:


> I don’t think it was said anywhere that the final cost of the puppy would only be £1000. The women paid a £500 deposit, not final sale price, then another £500 towards the c-section. So most likely the final sale price would have been more than £1000 which the young women had factored in to pay otherwise she wouldn’t have paid the deposit.
> 
> I think the point is that the seller has run off with £1000 of the young women’s money.
> 
> ...


hopefully the situation pans out and the women is refunded as the breeder had stated she was doing.
They both go their separate ways and both learn for the better.


----------



## Fleeced (Jan 19, 2021)

Fleeced said:


> My daughter recently placed a deposit for a new puppy with this kennel. The owner Margie Crable I asked my daughter for an additional $500 when the mother was having a C-section for delivery of the puppies. The initial deposit of $500 was placed on November 12 and the second $500 was given to her on December 1. She sent over 100 text messages to my daughter with photos and messages and on January 7 my daughter sent her a text message requesting an update since she had not heard anything for three weeks and that’s when she was informed that the owner decided to keep the dog because of its show quality potential and that it would not be happy with my daughter. You can imagine my daughter had been waiting almost 3 months with anticipation for this dog and then the lady just pulls the rug out from underneath her. I contacted her earlier today and she made up a story that my daughter was living in an apartment which is not true she is living in a house with her girlfriend with a big backyard in Kennedy Township. So where this lady is getting her information is ridiculous. So she had two stories of why she was not going to sell the dog anymore to my daughter the first was that she was keeping it for show potential and second was that she told my daughter she was living in an apartment. She is refusing to give back the $1000 to my daughter who is just starting up her own business and with Covid has been struggling but yet she has made the payments requested of her. Now this owner Margie is giving her a sob story that she is going through a divorce as if that would have an impact on giving back the money to my daughter of a transaction that was never completed as promised. I am getting the word out to everyone on this website that Twinleaf golden retriever is shady and they are cash strapped due to personal things going on in the owners life. Now she is giving my daughter anxiety attacks which she’s going to have to deal with and get help and pay for medical assistance due to this owner. The owner screamed at me on the phone when I called and then hung up so I have taken to social media and posting the story on LinkedIn with my 25,000 followers along with Facebook and Instagram I have sent directly to several kennels of which I have private messages back from many stating they can’t believe a kennel would do this in they are giving their industry a bad name by doing things like this. On Friday of this week my attorneys are meeting with me and we are going to file a claim in court and then we are going to get an order from the judge to put a lien on her business so she won’t be able to sell any more puppies in just a few weeks so her next litter which is due February 14 she will not be legally allowed to sell those. do not deal with this kennel and please tell all of your friends the same because this lady is desperate and you know people do desperate things when they are financially strapped. I just want $1000 return to my daughter. I promise this lady is going to lose more than $1000 if she wants to go down the legal path with me.


 wanted to give everyone an update on the situation. The owner of the kennel Twinleaf returned $500 a few days ago. Just moments ago she initiated to send the remaining $500 through cash application of which the money should be available on Monday. I will keep everyone informed if the money is available on Monday. All of this should’ve never happened if the owner just would’ve ethically returned it all immediately with no questions and prevent this posting of what her business did to my daughter. I will give everyone an update on Monday. Thank you to everyone for your responses and comments because I believe the pressure of peers helped


----------



## Fleeced (Jan 19, 2021)

klar said:


> To the buyer:
> The breeder has the right at any time to refuse you a puppy and for any reason. They technically don't even have to give a reason beside I don't want to sell you a puppy. In order for you to guarantee you will get a puppy, you must sign a contract. I signed the contract for my puppy the day I got her so before then the breeder could have refused me a puppy at any point. Although I understand that it is tough to accept, you have to imagine picking someone to give one of your own children.
> 
> To the breeder:
> Did the buyer pick out a puppy already? If so, why were they allowed to pick a puppy before they were evaluated for show potential? Did you have them sign a contract for the deposit? My breeder had me sign one that just stated what I was paying for and that the deposit was refundable if there was no puppy for me. If you don't have that sort of thing, I would recommend you start doing it so there is no confusion in the future.


Yes my daughter picked the puppy she wanted.


----------



## Fleeced (Jan 19, 2021)

gr56 said:


> hopefully the situation pans out and the women is refunded as the breeder had stated she was doing.
> They both go their separate ways and both learn for the better.


I posted an update on my initial posting of what is happening with the return of $1000. Originally the owner was only going to return $500 but gradually agreed to the other $500 end it is in the process of being transferred then we will know on Monday if it is in my daughters account. All of this could’ve been avoided


----------



## Fleeced (Jan 19, 2021)

gr56 said:


> hopefully the situation pans out and the women is refunded as the breeder had stated she was doing.
> They both go their separate ways and both learn for the better.


wanted to give everyone an update on the situation. The owner of the kennel Twinleaf returned $500 a few days ago. Just moments ago she initiated to send the remaining $500 through cash application of which the money should be available on Monday. I will keep everyone informed if the money is available on Monday. All of this should’ve never happened if the owner just would’ve ethically returned it all immediately with no questions and prevent this posting of what her business did to my daughter. I will give everyone an update on Monday. Thank you to everyone for your responses and comments because I believe the pressure of peers helped


----------



## Fleeced (Jan 19, 2021)

gr56 said:


> hopefully the situation pans out and the women is refunded as the breeder had stated she was doing.
> They both go their separate ways and both learn for the better.


wanted to give everyone an update on the situation. The owner of the kennel Twinleaf returned $500 a few days ago. Just moments ago she initiated to send the remaining $500 through cash application of which the money should be available on Monday. I will keep everyone informed if the money is available on Monday. All of this should’ve never happened if the owner just would’ve ethically returned it all immediately with no questions and prevent this posting of what her business did to my daughter. I will give everyone an update on Monday. Thank you to everyone for your responses and comments because I believe the pressure of peers helped


----------



## Fleeced (Jan 19, 2021)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> In my mind any breeder that is offering to allow the client "first pick" is not really holding back puppies with show potential. The breeder should be doing litter evaluations and placing puppies in proper homes, no pick to it.
> 
> If you can't afford the unexpected expense of a C-Section do not breed your dog. Things go wrong and that is why breeding is not really a for profit business when done correctly. Just my 2 cents.


wanted to give everyone an update on the situation. The owner of the kennel Twinleaf returned $500 a few days ago. Just moments ago she initiated to send the remaining $500 through cash application of which the money should be available on Monday. I will keep everyone informed if the money is available on Monday. All of this should’ve never happened if the owner just would’ve ethically returned it all immediately with no questions and prevent this posting of what her business did to my daughter. I will give everyone an update on Monday. Thank you to everyone for your responses and comments because I believe the pressure of peers helped


----------



## Fleeced (Jan 19, 2021)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> In my mind any breeder that is offering to allow the client "first pick" is not really holding back puppies with show potential. The breeder should be doing litter evaluations and placing puppies in proper homes, no pick to it.
> 
> If you can't afford the unexpected expense of a C-Section do not breed your dog. Things go wrong and that is why breeding is not really a for profit business when done correctly. Just my 2 cents.


wanted to give everyone an update on the situation. The owner of the kennel Twinleaf returned $500 a few days ago. Just moments ago she initiated to send the remaining $500 through cash application of which the money should be available on Monday. I will keep everyone informed if the money is available on Monday. All of this should’ve never happened if the owner just would’ve ethically returned it all immediately with no questions and prevent this posting of what her business did to my daughter. I will give everyone an update on Monday. Thank you to everyone for your responses and comments because I believe the pressure of peers helped


----------



## Fleeced (Jan 19, 2021)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> In my mind any breeder that is offering to allow the client "first pick" is not really holding back puppies with show potential. The breeder should be doing litter evaluations and placing puppies in proper homes, no pick to it.
> 
> If you can't afford the unexpected expense of a C-Section do not breed your dog. Things go wrong and that is why breeding is not really a for profit business when done correctly. Just my 2 cents.


wanted to give everyone an update on the situation. The owner of the kennel Twinleaf returned $500 a few days ago. Just moments ago she initiated to send the remaining $500 through cash application of which the money should be available on Monday. I will keep everyone informed if the money is available on Monday. All of this should’ve never happened if the owner just would’ve ethically returned it all immediately with no questions and prevent this posting of what her business did to my daughter. I will give everyone an update on Monday. Thank you to everyone for your responses and comments because I believe the pressure of peers helped


----------



## granite7 (Oct 5, 2020)

Could you give us an update or two?


----------



## Fleeced (Jan 19, 2021)

granite7 said:


> Could you give us an update or two?


I posted under my initial posting the following.wanted to give everyone an update on the situation. The owner of the kennel Twinleaf returned $500 a few days ago. Just moments ago she initiated to send the remaining $500 through cash application of which the money should be available on Monday. I will keep everyone informed if the money is available on Monday. All of this should’ve never happened if the owner just would’ve ethically returned it all immediately with no questions and prevent this posting of what her business did to my daughter. I will give everyone an update on Monday. Thank you to everyone for your responses and comments because I believe the pressure of peers helped


----------



## CCoopz (Jun 2, 2020)

granite7 said:


> Could you give us an update or two?
> 
> [emoji1787]


🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I got what you meant.


----------



## Jmcarp83 (May 4, 2018)

If you can’t afford $500 for a c-section how the heck can you afford having puppies and maintaining dogs? And why give her a dog from the next litter if your concern is she lives in an apartment?

This post will be forever public so it’s probably in your best interest to give her back her $1000.


----------



## 3dawgmom (Jan 24, 2021)

I had to pop some popcorn and grab a drink halfway through all of that. Whew. I just joined to get information on breeders in VA and surrounding states and this breeder was one I'd seen mentioned before in some groups so I was going to check them out. I tried looking up clearances and they were inconsistent so I wasn't going to go any further with this breeder and boy am I glad I didn't. I'm glad this person shared their experience and while I realize there are two sides to every story, it's the requesting of more money to pay for the c-section that is the most disturbing. I appreciate this forum giving people a place to share their experiences.


----------



## Fleeced (Jan 19, 2021)

gr56 said:


> We can all agree the circumstances was no good all around.
> However at that moment she was getting a dog.
> 
> Set aside the fact extra money was asked for
> ...


 my daughter is very financially sound. It’s the principle of taking advantage of people regardless of their financial positions. Think about this;I told my daughter that the lady on the application first of all states that she needs a $500 nonrefundable deposit. And then later she asked for assistance for a C-section of $500. My question is if the lady knows the litter is coming out then she could take 20 deposit of $500 and just go about her way. She tries to refer to the application as an agreement. Legally this is not an agreement she had it was simply an application. This lady should be shut down and out of your industry. She is giving breeders a bad name and she is running the scam probably every month. I have noticed since my original post of how many people have come across this lady and had similar ordeals.


----------



## Fleeced (Jan 19, 2021)

3dawgmom said:


> I had to pop some popcorn and grab a drink halfway through all of that. Whew. I just joined to get information on breeders in VA and surrounding states and this breeder was one I'd seen mentioned before in some groups so I was going to check them out. I tried looking up clearances and they were inconsistent so I wasn't going to go any further with this breeder and boy am I glad I didn't. I'm glad this person shared their experience and while I realize there are two sides to every story, it's the requesting of more money to pay for the c-section that is the most disturbing. I appreciate this forum giving people a place to share their experiences.


As it started the breeder originally told us that she is not giving back $1000 of which was paid for a C-section and a nonrefundable deposit. Think about this;I told my daughter that the lady on the application first of all states that she needs a $500 nonrefundable deposit. And then later she asked for assistance for a C-section of $500. My question is if the lady knows the litter is coming out then she could take 20 deposit of $500 and just go about her way. She tries to refer to the application as an agreement. Legally this is not an agreement she had it was simply an application. This lady should be shut down and out of your industry. She is giving breeders a bad name and she is running the scam probably every month


----------



## Fleeced (Jan 19, 2021)

Fleeced said:


> My daughter recently placed a deposit for a new puppy with this kennel. The owner Margie Crable I asked my daughter for an additional $500 when the mother was having a C-section for delivery of the puppies. The initial deposit of $500 was placed on November 12 and the second $500 was given to her on December 1. She sent over 100 text messages to my daughter with photos and messages and on January 7 my daughter sent her a text message requesting an update since she had not heard anything for three weeks and that’s when she was informed that the owner decided to keep the dog because of its show quality potential and that it would not be happy with my daughter. You can imagine my daughter had been waiting almost 3 months with anticipation for this dog and then the lady just pulls the rug out from underneath her. I contacted her earlier today and she made up a story that my daughter was living in an apartment which is not true she is living in a house with her girlfriend with a big backyard in Kennedy Township. So where this lady is getting her information is ridiculous. So she had two stories of why she was not going to sell the dog anymore to my daughter the first was that she was keeping it for show potential and second was that she told my daughter she was living in an apartment. She is refusing to give back the $1000 to my daughter who is just starting up her own business and with Covid has been struggling but yet she has made the payments requested of her. Now this owner Margie is giving her a sob story that she is going through a divorce as if that would have an impact on giving back the money to my daughter of a transaction that was never completed as promised. I am getting the word out to everyone on this website that Twinleaf golden retriever is shady and they are cash strapped due to personal things going on in the owners life. Now she is giving my daughter anxiety attacks which she’s going to have to deal with and get help and pay for medical assistance due to this owner. The owner screamed at me on the phone when I called and then hung up so I have taken to social media and posting the story on LinkedIn with my 25,000 followers along with Facebook and Instagram I have sent directly to several kennels of which I have private messages back from many stating they can’t believe a kennel would do this in they are giving their industry a bad name by doing things like this. On Friday of this week my attorneys are meeting with me and we are going to file a claim in court and then we are going to get an order from the judge to put a lien on her business so she won’t be able to sell any more puppies in just a few weeks so her next litter which is due February 14 she will not be legally allowed to sell those. do not deal with this kennel and please tell all of your friends the same because this lady is desperate and you know people do desperate things when they are financially strapped. I just want $1000 return to my daughter. I promise this lady is going to lose more than $1000 if she wants to go down the legal path with me.


As of today the full $1000 has been paid back to my daughter. This had a lot to do with the comments and pressures from all of the breeders on this forum. I thank you all very much and appreciate everything you have done. My daughter has already purchased a puppy and it is cute as hell. She purchased it for much lower of a price than what this breeder tried to sell for.

Think about this;I told my daughter that the lady on the application first of all states that she needs a $500 nonrefundable deposit. And then later she asked for assistance for a C-section of $500. My question is if the lady knows the litter is coming then she could take 20 deposit of $500 and just go about her way and put $10,000 in the bank. She tries to refer to the application as an agreement. Legally this is not an agreement wasn’t notarized or had any witnesses she had it was simply an application. This lady should be inspected of her business practices and out of your industry. She is giving breeders a bad name from what I am seeing others comments who have had similar situation and she could be running the scam probably every month. Whatever the governing body is with the industry they need to do a full inspection of her finances and reviews of others who have had complaints through this forum and others


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

fwiw- there is no governing body- peer pressure works better than anything else.


----------



## Fleeced (Jan 19, 2021)

Prism Goldens said:


> fwiw- there is no governing body- peer pressure works better than anything else.


In the least there must be a governing body that does inspections of kennels and the business itself. Whether it is state or federal I am assuming someone gives the kennels grades. If you know who that is let us now


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Depends- if a high volume breeder, the USDA is that governing body- 
the only thing I can think of that'd garner an inspection (but do not believe the $ piece would come into an inspection) would be via AKC's inspection program. 
Otherwise, it's up to the counties breeders live in but none of them concern themselves with the way people do business, just the conditions they keep animals in.


----------



## Dogsport (Mar 8, 2020)

ChrisFromOC said:


> Maybe we need to start a mediation forum ...


LOL, I thought at first you said “medication” forum. That too! This is a discussion that should have gone private. Makes me very uncomfortable since someone is obviously not sharing the true facts as they happened. I can’t tell which one, although I am siding with the father whose posts seem to make the most sense. I’m glad it was resolved.


----------



## Fleeced (Jan 19, 2021)

Dogsport said:


> LOL, I thought at first you said “medication” forum. That too! This is a discussion that should have gone private. Makes me very uncomfortable siBCs someone is obviously not sharing the true facts as they happened. I can’t tell which one,


All I can tell you is we have all the text messages from the breeder. Very well documented and we are keeping that for ourselves. But we did get back the $1000 which originally the breeder insisted she would never return


----------



## Fleeced (Jan 19, 2021)

Fleeced said:


> All I can tell you is we have all the text messages from the breeder. Very well documented and we are keeping that for ourselves. But we did get back the $1000 which originally the breeder insisted she would never return


If it wasn’t for this forum I don’t know what would’ve happened. I believe all the pressure from all the breeders and everyone helped significantly


----------



## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Perhaps, since it's been resolved, the thread can be locked. It'll still be visible for anyone who does a search, but it won't allow new comments. OP if you would like to go that route, a PM to one of our moderators (found here: Staff members | Golden Retriever Dog Forums (goldenretrieverforum.com)) would get that ball rolling.


----------



## Fleeced (Jan 19, 2021)

gr56 said:


> Idk if I’m just miscommunicating what hypothetical I was trying to get at.
> It’s not a big deal.just beyond all the drama of this situation I would expect to be paying around $2500 and up for a dog. Not a $1000.If things had panned out for this girl I imagine the c-section addition would have been deducted from final cost. But there is too many “whats ifs” and “assumptions” to truely talk this through point I was getting at. So overall it’s a moot point that I shouldn’t have attempted.


Total cost for the dog was to be $1800.


----------



## Fleeced (Jan 19, 2021)

CCoopz said:


> 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I got what you meant.


my daughter is very financially sound. It’s the principle of taking advantage of people regardless of their financial positions. Think about this;I told my daughter that the lady on the application first of all states that she needs a $500 nonrefundable deposit. And then later she asked for assistance for a C-section of $500. My question is if the lady knows the litter is coming out then she could take 20 deposit of $500 and just go about her way. She tries to refer to the application as an agreement. Legally this is not an agreement she had it was simply an application. This lady should be shut down and out of your industry. She is giving breeders a bad name and she is running the scam probably every month. I have noticed since my original post of how many people have come across this lady and had similar ordeals.


----------



## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

What @CCoopz was referencing is you don't need to copy paste an update quoting every single post since you posted past. We all get notifications and are capable of reading a post even if its not addressed to us individually. It was meant as tongue in cheek humor.


----------



## Fleeced (Jan 19, 2021)

Brave said:


> What @CCoopz was referencing is you don't need to copy paste an update quoting every single post since you posted past. We all get notifications and are capable of reading a post even if its not addressed to us individually. It was meant as tongue in cheek humor.


I posted the update under the original posting for everyone to read but then I had several post that were asking about what has happened. That’s all and wanted to thank those people because they made a difference


----------



## Margherite Crable (Jan 20, 2021)

I do not see the post from the clients father… But the total $1000 was *REFUNDED* to the client. I was told that the clients father would update this thread. The bottom line is this is a very good form for information… But when people are not informed of the entire story it tends to take a turn into Assumption- not fact.


----------



## Dunmar (Apr 15, 2020)

Margherite Crable said:


> I do not see the post from the clients father… But the total $1000 was *REFUNDED* to the client. I was told that the clients father would update this thread. The bottom line is this is a very good form for information… But when people are not informed of the entire story it tends to take a turn into Assumption- not fact.


He did state you refunded all the money in 2- $500 refunds.


----------



## Dunmar (Apr 15, 2020)

Fleeced said:


> All I can tell you is we have all the text messages from the breeder. Very well documented and we are keeping that for ourselves. But we did get back the $1000 which originally the breeder insisted she would never return


Here it is stated the money was returned


----------



## CCoopz (Jun 2, 2020)

Dunmar said:


> He did state you refunded all the money in 2- $500 refunds.


I second that, that is what I read. 

He first let the forum know that 1 x £500 had been paid, then he said they were waiting for the 2nd £500 and would update on the Monday (passed) whether received. He confirmed received. 

Margaret Crabble, please read and digest posts fully before casting aspersions.


----------



## CCoopz (Jun 2, 2020)

I also second what Brave posted, not long ago, asking Fleeced to contact the moderators to have the post locked to new messages. But it will remain on the site for other to view.
Fleeced maybe you would be so kind for your own and the breeder sakes, and Margaret Crabble whatever her role in this is, to take this step since you have now been refunded. So issue resolved.


----------



## Steven Kargenian (Sep 28, 2020)

Fleeced said:


> My daughter recently placed a deposit for a new puppy with this kennel. The owner Margie Crable I asked my daughter for an additional $500 when the mother was having a C-section for delivery of the puppies. The initial deposit of $500 was placed on November 12 and the second $500 was given to her on December 1. She sent over 100 text messages to my daughter with photos and messages and on January 7 my daughter sent her a text message requesting an update since she had not heard anything for three weeks and that’s when she was informed that the owner decided to keep the dog because of its show quality potential and that it would not be happy with my daughter. You can imagine my daughter had been waiting almost 3 months with anticipation for this dog and then the lady just pulls the rug out from underneath her. I contacted her earlier today and she made up a story that my daughter was living in an apartment which is not true she is living in a house with her girlfriend with a big backyard in Kennedy Township. So where this lady is getting her information is ridiculous. So she had two stories of why she was not going to sell the dog anymore to my daughter the first was that she was keeping it for show potential and second was that she told my daughter she was living in an apartment. She is refusing to give back the $1000 to my daughter who is just starting up her own business and with Covid has been struggling but yet she has made the payments requested of her. Now this owner Margie is giving her a sob story that she is going through a divorce as if that would have an impact on giving back the money to my daughter of a transaction that was never completed as promised. I am getting the word out to everyone on this website that Twinleaf golden retriever is shady and they are cash strapped due to personal things going on in the owners life. Now she is giving my daughter anxiety attacks which she’s going to have to deal with and get help and pay for medical assistance due to this owner. The owner screamed at me on the phone when I called and then hung up so I have taken to social media and posting the story on LinkedIn with my 25,000 followers along with Facebook and Instagram I have sent directly to several kennels of which I have private messages back from many stating they can’t believe a kennel would do this in they are giving their industry a bad name by doing things like this. On Friday of this week my attorneys are meeting with me and we are going to file a claim in court and then we are going to get an order from the judge to put a lien on her business so she won’t be able to sell any more puppies in just a few weeks so her next litter which is due February 14 she will not be legally allowed to sell those. do not deal with this kennel and please tell all of your friends the same because this lady is desperate and you know people do desperate things when they are financially strapped. I just want $1000 return to my daughter. I promise this lady is going to lose more than $1000 if she wants to go down the legal path with me.


Your 


Fleeced said:


> My daughter recently placed a deposit for a new puppy with this kennel. The owner Margie Crable I asked my daughter for an additional $500 when the mother was having a C-section for delivery of the puppies. The initial deposit of $500 was placed on November 12 and the second $500 was given to her on December 1. She sent over 100 text messages to my daughter with photos and messages and on January 7 my daughter sent her a text message requesting an update since she had not heard anything for three weeks and that’s when she was informed that the owner decided to keep the dog because of its show quality potential and that it would not be happy with my daughter. You can imagine my daughter had been waiting almost 3 months with anticipation for this dog and then the lady just pulls the rug out from underneath her. I contacted her earlier today and she made up a story that my daughter was living in an apartment which is not true she is living in a house with her girlfriend with a big backyard in Kennedy Township. So where this lady is getting her information is ridiculous. So she had two stories of why she was not going to sell the dog anymore to my daughter the first was that she was keeping it for show potential and second was that she told my daughter she was living in an apartment. She is refusing to give back the $1000 to my daughter who is just starting up her own business and with Covid has been struggling but yet she has made the payments requested of her. Now this owner Margie is giving her a sob story that she is going through a divorce as if that would have an impact on giving back the money to my daughter of a transaction that was never completed as promised. I am getting the word out to everyone on this website that Twinleaf golden retriever is shady and they are cash strapped due to personal things going on in the owners life. Now she is giving my daughter anxiety attacks which she’s going to have to deal with and get help and pay for medical assistance due to this owner. The owner screamed at me on the phone when I called and then hung up so I have taken to social media and posting the story on LinkedIn with my 25,000 followers along with Facebook and Instagram I have sent directly to several kennels of which I have private messages back from many stating they can’t believe a kennel would do this in they are giving their industry a bad name by doing things like this. On Friday of this week my attorneys are meeting with me and we are going to file a claim in court and then we are going to get an order from the judge to put a lien on her business so she won’t be able to sell any more puppies in just a few weeks so her next litter which is due February 14 she will not be legally allowed to sell those. do not deal with this kennel and please tell all of your friends the same because this lady is desperate and you know people do desperate things when they are financially strapped. I just want $1000 return to my daughter. I promise this lady is going to lose more than $1000 if she wants to go down the legal path with me.


your attorney should know this but u should also sue for specific performance on the puppy demanding possession


----------



## kdunklin (Jan 16, 2021)

Fleeced said:


> What you wrote you must have received information from Margie the owner at the kennel. My daughter is living in a house with her girlfriend and there is a big backyard and I can supply Ariel views of the house. She is not living in an apartment. Where she is getting that information or making it up I have no freaking idea but you don’t know the whole story of what she has told Rachel. First she told her that she was keeping the dog because it is for show and she wants to keep it and then in the same breath she goes on about this apartment which Rachel is not living in. The lady just needs money because she’s going through a bad divorce and she is financially strapped. Don’t state what you believe or facts without supporting information and only getting it from the person who is committing the crimes.


It does not matter if your daughter lives in an apartment, that's just an excuse on the kennel owner part. She just needs to return your daughters money no one has money to just give away especially to any slicker! Make sure your daughter does not make this mistake again.


----------



## Dunmar (Apr 15, 2020)

kdunklin said:


> It does not matter if your daughter lives in an apartment, that's just an excuse on the kennel owner part. She just needs to return your daughters money no one has money to just give away especially to any slicker! Make sure your daughter does not make this mistake again.


The money has been returned

Maybe the best thing to do would be the poster to ask this post be closed since it is resolved.


----------



## Dunmar (Apr 15, 2020)

Resolved- Thread being closed by OP request.


----------

