# Professional handler vs Owner handler…why should it matter?



## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

A bad handler can make a good dog look bad with poor handling. An excellent handler can make a bad dog look better than it is. Judges can only judge on what they see in the ring that day.

The difference between who wins and who loses on any particular day can come down to the smallest, tiniest handling mistake. Professionals do it for a living, weekend after weekend. Most owner handlers only do it when they can.

Owner handlers can and do finish their own dogs all the time. It just takes longer for them for the reasons stated above.

It depends on what you mean by “successful”. If you mean Top 20, owner handlers are almost never in the Top 20 because they just don’t have the time and resources it takes to put a dog in the Top 20. That requires a lot of money, a lot of traveling, and a lot knowing which judges to take your particular dog to. Most owner handlers don’t show often enough for judges to know them and to know which judges will like their dog. Handlers will sometimes go cross-country to show to a particular judge that might give their dog a Group 1 or even BIS.

It’s not necessarily about judges putting up handlers over dogs - although it does happen - it’s more about owner handlers just not being good at it. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve made mistakes showing my dog that made her look worse than she is.

Some judges have a particular thing they like to focus on, like stacked outlines or movement. I totally suck at hand stacking my dog and keeping her still for a really long time. But when I get a judge that doesn’t care about hand stacked outlines and instead prefers movement and free stacks, I am MUCH more likely to win.

All of that to say, there’s no one answer to that question.


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## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

I’ll add to what she said, there is a lot that goes on behind the scenes at the pros’. Coat conditioning, physical conditioning, and training in a way that they know works. On top of that, pros know how to groom a dog to win and that’s something that is harder for an OH to grasp unless they have a good mentor. 
I will say that there are some judges that do like owner handlers and even want to offer training advice. There are others that can get frustrated by newbie mistakes.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

IrisGold said:


> And if owner handler, you must be an excellent handler. Why should this matter? If it’s an excellent example of the breed standard, shouldn’t it be obvious regardless of the handler?


Putting this in context, I know of a dog that kept failing CCA exams because his owner/handler could not get him to trot. The judges had mercy on her and had a runner move her dog for her - and he got his CCA title.

CCA is a non-competitive GRCA conformation title (means nothing to AKC) - with judges not demonstrating any bias towards grooming or style when judging dogs brought before them. And yet, you still have this pretty prime example where an owner made her dog look pretty bad where if it was just her - he would not have gotten that title.

AKC saw something fairly similar at a golden retriever national where an OH went out there with her dog and absolutely could not get him to gait at all. When she finally just moved him around the ring, he was sideways the whole time.

Obviously, that's not exactly the most common thing that happens while OH show their own dogs at every show, but it's along those lines.

There was an OH who has made a habit of showing up at ring time to show their dog. And they've not had anyone helping them with grooming or prep. Their dog is lovely, but coat and coat texture are very different than what everyone else is showing. Putting it nicely, their dog appears to have bed hair and you can tell they do not bathe the dog very often. Dog is lovely, but looks like a pet in the lineup.  

Another dog - owner showed him a whole year without winning anything. Put him with a handler who immediately sculpted the dog's coat. Basically stripped almost all of the dog's bib away to show this dog's beautiful neck and front and this dog won his CH in a handful of shows after that, including big specialty wins. 

Personally speaking, I have a dog that I'm working on fixing a handling caused issue. Basically my dog gaits with his head too high - which makes his gait very short and choppy when the judges are looking for the dogs to extend out more. A lot of that is him looking up at me (he's a very good boy). This can and DOES happen with pro handlers all the time. Have seen it happen with the best of them, actually and know enough at least watching it happen with others.  But I guarantee that they know it's happening or they have buddies tell them what's going on. So they don't go a whole show season without knowing why the dog is getting passed over every time he shows. With me, I finally got irritated enough to ask people to watch and tell me what he was doing. 

Pro handlers won't solve all problems in an instant - fwiw. There's a lot more involved. Sometimes there's dogs that owner handlers love to pieces, but need to realize that the dogs just aren't going to get CH for one reason or another. 

One I can think of whose owner finally retired the dog - he was simply breathtaking to look at. Just most correct dog you ever saw + showy.... but when he moved, that tail went up and curled over his back. He did that with the owner. And he did it when with a pro handler. And it just was something that did not go away with maturity (which if just "happy tail" it would have). 

Anyway - like Maegan said above. There's not ONE single reason why people need to show these dogs very well in order to win with them. 

Have watched breeds like Brittanies or dock tollers and pondered how terrible the handling can be and wish that goldens were like that.... but then, I will say that lasting memories of these dogs aren't the dogs. It's the terrible handling. That's not good for a breed either.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Should add, just for fun.... some the current or past highest ranked goldens in obedience (think owner handled to infinity and beyond) cannot trot to save their lives. Drives their owners nuts because the belief is that dogs who trot, especially at the figure 8, will not get hit as much for lagging/forging/bumping. Obviously has not affected scoring long term, but they still want their dogs to trot.  That's just trotting. You are not talking about an extended trot or judging what's happening to a dog's topline, front, or rear or tail etc... when trotting.


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

I also have been told by 3 different handling trainers that a big part of it is “looking” like a pro. That’s how you dress, how you present yourself and your dog down to what you’re wearing. One straight up told me I’d have an advantage because of my age and the fact and I move well (like in general can run with my dog and not take away from them).

Some OH for one reason or another don’t move well, don’t dress like a pro etc. it’s a whole plethora of things INCLUDING having a dog who is a nice representation of the breed, is groomed and conditioned well and trained to do what it needs to and all of the things others mentioned above.

So many moving pieces and yeah, handlers do this as their profession while OH don’t, so they’re just better at it than we are 😂


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## FinnTheFloof (Jun 27, 2021)

There is also the thing to consider that professional handlers are like professional anything- it is their JOB. They are out there every weekend with the best grooming equipment and incredible amounts of experience. They know how to hide flaws and spotlight good points with grooming and handling in ways that owner handlers might not know or might not be able to do. I have been told multiple times that a professional handler could beat you, switch dogs with you, and still beat you, and from what I've seen I consider that to be true. 

If a professional handler couldn't show a dog better than most owner handlers, that would be like a plumber who couldn't fix a toilet better than most homeowners, or a tailor who couldn't alter clothes better than some lady with a sewing machine in her basement. There's a reason that these people are being paid for what they do- because they do it well.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

FinnTheFloof said:


> I have been told multiple times that a professional handler could beat you, switch dogs with you, and still beat you, and from what I've seen I consider that to be true.


Hmm.... bodes poorly for owner handlers, eh?  

Fortunately, owner handlers win all the time. And to win, they have to beat pro handlers at their own game. Which they do.


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## Hildae (Aug 15, 2012)

I mean, I could go on wheel of fortune and turn the letters, but I'm not going to look like Vanna White doing it...


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Hildae said:


> I mean, I could go on wheel of fortune and turn the letters, but I'm not going to look like Vanna White doing it...


That implies that handling a dog is so simple as turning a wheel and it's merely sexism which lets some dogs win vs others. Some may think that, but guarantee they either figure it out or end up quibbling about politics.


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## FinnTheFloof (Jun 27, 2021)

Megora said:


> That implies that handling a dog is so simple and turning a wheel and it's merely sexism which lets some dogs win vs others.


I don't think that that comment was intended to read that way?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

FinnTheFloof said:


> I don't think that that comment was intended to read that way?


I sure hope I misread the comment.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Dog showing is one sport that anyone can compete with the best in the country. Tennis- imagine playing with Serena Williams, on even playing ground- one of you will win, will it be you? Only if she makes big mistake, no matter how good you are. Or golf- better example- you can enter and compete against Tiger Woods. Will you win, even if you are a great player @ your local course? He's played every course in the country. He knows nuance you don't know. Pro handlers who are good (and we have some who are not, there's one local to me who's seriously awful yet wins now and then because dog overcomes her lacks) know every little thing about how their dog looks to the judge and corrects to fix those little things.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Going back to @Emmdenn ’s point on presentation, pros do present themselves and their dogs differently than most owner handlers. One pro I know fairly well presents every dog like it’s a prize or a magic trick. She says “look at this dog! Look how awesome it is” without saying a word. Her hair and makeup are always done and she always wears something nice

Another thing that gets owner handlers is that we care a whole lot more if our dog wins - or loses. There is something about showing your own dog versus showing someone else’s that increases the pressure. When I have shown other people’s dogs, it’s like a literal load off my shoulders. I feel like I can relax and end up actually doing a better job sometimes than I do with my own dog.

Other than top specials, the pros don’t care deep down inside whether the dogs they show win or not. Meaning the wins aren’t as emotional for them. It’s their job. Not their hobby. Some of them are super competitive and hate losing, but it’s not because they thought a deserving dog got dumped, it’s because_ they_ didn’t win. 

I am super lucky to have made acquaintances/friends out of a few pros. They will even tell me what to fix when we’re in the ring together. There are good ones out there that genuinely care about the dogs and our breed and want deserving dogs to win.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

ArkansasGold said:


> Going back to @Emmdenn ’s point on presentation, pros do present themselves and their dogs differently than most owner handlers. One pro I know fairly well presents every dog like it’s a prize or a magic trick. She says “look at this dog! Look how awesome it is” without saying a word. Her hair and makeup are always done and she always wears something nice


The thing that bugs me as somebody who has friends in other breeds, including guys.... as long as they wear a jacket/suit, they are good to go. The suit doesn't even have to match the pants! Hair? One handler I know of (who is very nice) usually goes out there wearing a baseball cap!

I quibbled about this to a friend who shows saints at a past summer show. He was saying women handlers were lucky that summer shows they can wear sleeveless outfits and so on while the guys are stuck wearing jackets unless the judge takes their jacket off (not sure how that works with female judges). I looked at him and jokingly (but not really jokingly) reminded him that he could probably wear bermuda shorts under his jacket and it would probably be OK (slight exaggeration). 

Then chicks - we are told to wear nylons, skirts or dresses, pretty expensive suits (a friend of mine has actually purchased $400+ JACKETS.  They are very nice jackets, but $400+.... that's just insane to me. I worked at a professional office most of my adult life and nobody wore suits, much less $400+ suits..... >..<


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

I know my weaknesses. It's best for me to hire a handler. It's taken over half a year for me (not Logan) to do the footwork for an about turn. 😅

As for clothing/appearance on people, I guess we generally go with what is acceptable for venues or work environment? Working at a law firm, Starbucks, cocktail, casual. I think a nice suit is just as painful for some men as what is required of women. We were definitely suited up (or at least nice dresses) when I worked at a large downtown law firm earlier in life.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

diane0905 said:


> As for clothing/appearance on people, I guess we generally go with what is acceptable for venues or work environment? Working at a law firm, Starbucks, cocktail, casual. I think a nice suit is just as painful for some men as what is required of women. We were definitely suited up (or at least nice dresses) when I worked at a large downtown law firm earlier in life.


My sister worked many years as a case manager at a pretty big law firm for years, but never had to buy a single suit.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

diane0905 said:


> I know my weaknesses. It's best for me to hire a handler. It's taking over half a year for me (not Logan) to do the footwork for an about turn. 😅


Gotta ask - does this mean you are going for it with your beautiful boy? 

Bet Robin is tickled.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

Megora said:


> Gotta ask - does this mean you are going for it with your beautiful boy?
> 
> Bet Robin is tickled.


Hoping to in the next month or two.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Robin IS tickled= Logan is lovely and Diane is lovely, too.. 
and he'll look great with Maddie who will take wonderful care of him.


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## FinnTheFloof (Jun 27, 2021)

Maddie is so amazing- she was kind enough to let me, who had never been to an all breed show before at that time, work for her and help groom and hold dogs, and was amazingly helpful! She is the one who taught me how to dry a golden. I would give her one of my dogs any day.


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