# New Puppy-Grain Free Diet?



## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

Hi and welcome! Do you have any specific reason to switch to grain-free? In any case: I would remain on the food the breeder is using for the first couple of weeks, you don't want to upset your puppies tummy too fast and she has enough to cope with in the beginning. I feed Fromm's 4 star, but the variety I use does have grain. Fromm's does have grain free as well.


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

I'm pretty sure that most grain free diets are not suitable for larger breed puppies due to the high levels of calcium/phosphorous. The puppies end up growing too fast. Slow growth is what you aim for. There might be a few that are? I'm sure someone else can elaborate more.


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## Stircrazy (Nov 30, 2009)

I have raised mine on a grain free. people seam to get scared when you say grain free thinking it is a low carb diet but it isn't.. just no grains. 

so I switched mine from a low quality vet recomended food to a high quality food from orijen. I did use regional red which is a "all stages food" and when he turned 7 months I switched him to arcana grasslands which is a adult food. from what I have fread it isn't so much the amount of Ca and phosphrus that is bad for the large breed dogs but rather there ratio to each other, and this is one of the things that Orijen and arcana foods have in ballance. 

I say go for it.. do your own reading into foods and find one that you feel comfertable feeding your dog. 

Steve


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## Stircrazy (Nov 30, 2009)

nixietink said:


> I'm pretty sure that most grain free diets are not suitable for larger breed puppies due to the high levels of calcium/phosphorous. The puppies end up growing too fast. Slow growth is what you aim for. There might be a few that are? I'm sure someone else can elaborate more.


my boy grew up very slow on orijin... he was 45lbs at 7 months. but I think that it isn't the amount of Ca/Phos but rather there ratio to each other that is important.

Steve


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

No, no, no. It's one thing for people to feed grain free to adult dogs who aren't hurt by it. It's quite another to switch a puppy to it when you can really harm him. If what you mean by "grain free" is a food with potato instead of a grain, why do you think that's a good idea?

If what you mean by "grain free" is a food that's mostly or all meat, with the resulting calorie density and calcium/phosphorus density and ratio, then NO NO NO NO NO. Even the food manufacturers who make these kind of grain free formulas explicitly state that they're NOT for puppies.


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## jwemt81 (Aug 20, 2008)

Grain-free is NOT meant for puppies. Additionally, I wouldn't even feed an adult dog grain-free unless the dog has specific allergies to grains or can't tolerate them for whatever reason. I would stick with whatever your breeder has the puppies on. Their dogs obviously must do well on the Merrick it if that is what they continue to feed. I wouldn't mess with a young puppy's diet. That can be like playing with fire.


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## jweisman54 (May 22, 2010)

I was thinking to eventually switch to the Natural Balance, Sweet Potatoe and Duck formula, but it looks like the concensus here is that I should NOT opt for a grain free food which is fine. I just don't want to feed my puppy a "junk" food brand. The lab I had for 14 years was on Natural Choice Lamb and Rice and had skin issues and was loaded with grain and also had IBS issues as well, so I want to stay away from brands like that.

Suggestions..............????


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Well, I feed something that many people consider "junk" because it has corn in it, but I swear by the Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy formula for healthy, appropriate growth and calcium/phosphorus balance. After a year, we switch them to the Eukanuba Premium Performance 30/20.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

IMO grain free is fine for puppies as long as the cal/phos levels are within the safe range. Orijen, Taste of the Wild and Natural Balance are fine. Stay away from EVO and Wellness Core until your puppy is over 18 months. Make sure you don't over feed, these foods are calorie dense so the dogs will not need to eat as much as a grain inclusive food.

Just wanted to add that everyone has their own opinions on food so do your own research and feed what you are comfortable with. I've been studying canine nutrition for years and have been selling all the top brands for close to 35 years. I have changed my opinion as more research has come out and know many, many giant breed puppies/dogs raised on grain free with no problems at all. The only issue would be over feeding.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

jweisman54 said:


> I was thinking to eventually switch to the Natural Balance, Sweet Potatoe and Duck formula, but it looks like the concensus here is that I should NOT opt for a grain free food which is fine. I just don't want to feed my puppy a "junk" food brand. The lab I had for 14 years was on Natural Choice Lamb and Rice and had skin issues and was loaded with grain and also had IBS issues as well, so I want to stay away from brands like that.
> 
> Suggestions..............????


I feed my guys Evo and have done so since they were a year old.

However - as puppies, I fed them as quality food as I could find for them, but not grain free. The reason is that although I prefer grain free for a mature dog, it is too dense for a puppy. My dogs are extremely active and do not store excess fat. A puppy's activity level must be as measured as his caloric intake in order that he not overexert a growing frame and does not grow up too quickly. Because of this measured approach to exercise, if fed a dense food, he will store excess as fat.
While I feed a kibble that is meat based and uses potato as a binder - one source of carbohydrate that I feel is more nutritionally sound than low grade fillers - I do not use it as puppy food. Understanding, of course, that canines don't really have as critically high a need for carbs. For the crucial first year I do as my breeder suggests. I have faith in the breeder to do what is right for the puppies, otherwise I would not go to them in the first place.


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

There are quite a few statements floating around in this thread that I'd like to comment on - somewhat in order as they were posted.

California Natural is not grain free.

Grain free formulas can be high in carbohydrates or low in carbohydrates. The higher the protein and fat percentages, then mathematically the lower the carb % will be - and visa versa.

Carbohydrates include grains and non-grains such as potatoes, peas, tapioca, etc. 

Some dogs have intolerances to some grains so owners try grain free formulas. Other people think grains can be more easily contaminated than other carbs; so they steer clear of kibbles with grain. And finally, other people don't believe that dogs need high percentages of carbs; and to date, the only kibble formulas with low carbs happen to be grain free.

Some grain free formulas are formulated only for adult dogs - such as Wellness Core and EVO. Other grain free formulas are formulated for puppies to be able to eat them such as a couple of Orijen formulas, the Acana Provincial "all life stages" formula and Canidae Grain Free All life Stages. It isn't the presence or absence of grain itself which makes a kibble suitable or unsuitable for puppies. Most manufacturers base their recommendation on the calcium/phosphorous levels although that isn't even an universally agreed upon concept. The key is looking at the "nutritional analysis" listed on the bags or on a company's web site - although not all companies are forthcoming about that in detail. 

We don't all agree on what to look for in feeding our dogs and that's certainly what makes so many of these threads so interesting.


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## jwemt81 (Aug 20, 2008)

jweisman54 said:


> I was thinking to eventually switch to the Natural Balance, Sweet Potatoe and Duck formula, but it looks like the concensus here is that I should NOT opt for a grain free food which is fine. I just don't want to feed my puppy a "junk" food brand. The lab I had for 14 years was on Natural Choice Lamb and Rice and had skin issues and was loaded with grain and also had IBS issues as well, so I want to stay away from brands like that.
> 
> Suggestions..............????


Natural Balance is much lower in protein than I would want for a puppy....

I believe they have also had some recalls.


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## jenlaur (Jun 24, 2009)

jweisman54 said:


> Hi,
> I am new to the forum. I will be bringing home my new female pup in two weeks. The breeder is currently feeding Merrick Puppy Plate. I am considering switching her to a Grain Free diet. I have been researching these foods and cannot figure out which is the correct one for her, what number I should look for in protein, etc. Should I stay away from California Natural since they were just bought by P & G?
> 
> Any help would be much appreciated.
> ...


As you can tell you have touched on a sensitive subject. Everyone has an opinion on food and their reasons for feeding what they do. In the end you need to feed what works for your dog.

Riley's breeder had her on Eukanuba. Personally I did not care for the ingredients in the food and she itched a lot on it. We tried Wellness and she had loose poops. Acana was recommended to us. We switched cold turkey (poops couldn't get any worse) and she has been on it since 5 months of age. It is a moderate protein (32% protein). She is almost a year old and 56 lbs. She has a beautiful and shiny coat, lots of energy and firm poops. I couldn't ask for more.


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## Blondie (Oct 10, 2009)

I read that grain-free should not be started before 18 months of age. Just my two cents. I had looked into Before Grain a food made by Merrick and I was told 2 parts per million on the ethoxyquin amount, in case you wanted to know.


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## jweisman54 (May 22, 2010)

Thanks for all the input.....I am going to keep her on the Merrick Puppy Plate for now and probably gradually switch her over to Artemis Fresh Mix Med/Lg breed Puppy. Does anyone have any input on the Artemis?


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