# Jack's Training Journal



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

yea! I love training journals!! Can't wait to see Jack's!


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

That is a great idea!! I do that with my 2 blogs! Have fun!


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

I can't wait to hear how he does! Warning though--he might be very naughty cause that stuff can make them very excited!


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

GoldenSail said:


> Warning though--he might be very naughty cause that stuff can make them very excited!


I think that will probably be the case... I'm just hopeful that he isn't the only naughty one!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sounds like fun! I would love to hear how it goes.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

I cant wait to hear all about it. Just remember it is all about having fun and it is his first class. I am sure he will do just fine.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Sounds like a great idea!

And most dogs don't heel right around distractions for a while so please don't be embarrassed


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## tanianault (Dec 11, 2010)

Ooh! So exciting! Grover and I start a beginner retrieve class in May - I'm very eager to read Jack's training journal.

- Tania


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

WOo hoo! Looking forward to hearing all about it!


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Today was our first training class! The class is mostly labs, but there is one other golden, a chessie and a toller. Some of the dogs are very young, I think the youngest is 5 months. But all the dogs are under 2 if I remember correctly. 

As I expected, the first couple of hours were spent going over the class schedule, making sure we all have the equipment we need, talking about training etiquette, talking about requirements of hunt tests and what to expect during hunt tests, etc. Then Bill wanted to see where each dog is at with their retrieving ability. So we each took a turn on a very short mark with our dog. All the dogs did great and it doesn't seem like there are any issues with a dog in the class not wanting to retrieve. 

Jack did great on his mark and retrieved the bumper to hand, but just barely!  He stayed pretty steady as most of the other dogs took their turn, but is definitely not where he needs to be in that department. He alternated between sitting in heel position perfectly and losing his mind while jumping 3 feet into the air.... he's definitely an intense dog. I'm glad I have him in the class instead of Chloe since I think he needs a firmer hand to get him under control.

After that, Bill then showed us how to teach the "hold" command. Jack knows the command, but can use some work so we're working on that a bit today. Jack really actually needs to work on "heel", so I think while some people in the class may be having the difficulty with "hold" that I did several months back, we'll be working on heeling a little more to catch him up on that.

I'm not sure what we're doing in tomorrow's class yet....but I will update this thread when I get home! Overall I'm really excited about the class. The goal is to run in juniors in the fall, so hopefully that is where we end up!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

yay! that sounds like a great class, and sounds like you really had a good time. Can't wait to read more!


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Day 2! 

Today we all arrived to learn that we'd spend the first part of class learning to operate all the necessary equipment. First we learned how to use the pistol thing (totally can't remember what it's called) and shotgun (firing blanks) complete with a demonstration of what a blank can do at close range (on a gallon milk container filled with water). We all definitely got the picture on that! Next we learned how to use the bumper/bird launcher and how to correctly throw bumpers for other dogs. We also took our dogs around decoys and had them sit behind a couple blinds, just so Bill could see if there are any problems with any dogs. 

Jack didn't really pay attention to the decoys and was fine behind the blinds. I do wonder how he'll do in the water if there are floating decoys....? But I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get to it! 

Next we were divided into 3 groups of 4 dogs. The first group was working, the second was running and third was observing. Each dog got a short and long retrieve. We rotated through so all the dogs had a chance to run. We were in the observation group first. 

Jack did ok observing but definitely started to get a little impatient and whiny, particularly in reaction to the duck calls. But I'm happy they got his attention. (On a side note, this make me very aware of what an accomplishment it is to have a dog steady with no restraint.) Next we went over to the blinds to wait our turn to run. 

One thing that happened from the get go was that a lot of the dogs seemed to get distracted by scents on the ground. We saw a few feathers around and figured that people who were in that spot the day prior were probably training with birds. Not ideal for our group of beginner dogs, but it gave everyone a chance to work on corrections. There is definitely a range of retrieving drive in our class, with some very intense and some not 100% interested in the idea. The scents on the ground definitely impacted the less driven dogs the most...with some completely ignoring their bumpers initially. 

Once it was our turn we got up to the line. On the short mark Jack did well. He got a little distracted by the new smells on his way back in to me, but made it. On his long mark I think the person throwing the bumper got a little carried away.....it ended up a lot farther away than the other ones. But Bill said to leave it and see how he did. Jack had to search for it a bit since apparently it ended up in a hole, but at least he found it! He made it back to my general area and then was so pleased with himself that he proceeded to do a victory lap around me and Bill. After he was through celebrating he got over to me and delivered it to hand. Of course, I was mortified, but Bill said not to worry and that he did great. He thinks that once Jack understands the "heel" command that the celebrating will work itself out. I'm going to be using a long line for the time being when training at home though, just to make sure we develop new good habits instead of reinforcing the bad ones. 

Some highlights from the other dogs' land retrieves were 1) the 4 month old flat coat who retrieved her bumper and then ran to the nearest pond and jumped in, 2) the 5 month old black lab puppy who retrieved, heeled and delivered to hand like a seasoned pro - her owner was in shock since she had no idea she knew how to do it, it was pretty cool to watch, and 3) the chocolate lab who retrieved his bumper, dropped it and peed on it. That bumper is his now! LOL 

Next, since it was turning into such a hot day, Bill decided to try water retrieves in one of the small ponds. Each dog did 3 retrieves that got progressively closer to the shore on the other side. Probably not the best idea for me to be standing with Jack while 10 other dogs took their turn. He alternated between being perfectly behaved and losing his mind. I'm definitely noticing a pattern with him on this! He can maintain his composure but only for a limited time. Hopefully with corrections and encouragement this will improve over time. 

Needless to say, Jack was very very very excited for his turn in the water. (I should mentioned that the previous dog had missed a bumper so it was in the water but far from where Jack's bumper landed. I didn't think it would be a problem but I was wrong.) Jack's water entry was perfect....I honestly don't even think he realized that it was a different type of body of water (not our pool or the ocean) at that point. I forgot to mention that the area is really really muddy.....and Jack has never really been in that amount of mud. So on his way back in we think his feet started to sink in the mud and he freaked out a bit. So, logically, he decided he was just going to stay in the water and swim rather than brave the mud again. He went back and got his bumper, then noticed the other bumper floating and was very excited. He tried to get the other bumper and kept switching bumpers since he couldn't decide which one to bring in. He kept switching and switching.....it was kind of amusing and kind of painful to watch. Luckily it was shallow and he's a pretty strong swimmer so I wasn't too worried about him getting hurt by his continued indecision. This went on for a minute or two and finally one of the bumpers floated close enough to shore for me to grab it. But the mud was still a problem. Somehow we got him out of the water.....I don't even know how. Instead of putting him on a long line we decided to try it again.... and as you can expect the next thing running through my mind for the next 10 minutes was "oh crap, oh crap, oh crap." He just would NOT come to the shore and swam around with his bumper....he was having a great time! Finally he paid attention to what we were saying on shore and came to me. I had to grab his tail to catch him since he was headed back into the water! That was the end of water for him today....needless to say, we decided that he'll be on a long line in the future. If I had known he would do that we would have used one initially, but I told Bill that in our pool and in the ocean he retrieves correctly so he didn't need it. Don't know if I'll ever live that one down!

After we were all done in the water we all sat down to go over the day, and Bill told us he was very happy with the dogs so far. He said for the level they are at they are doing great. Some dogs will lag behind on one thing, but excel at another so not to be discouraged if our dog isn't performing every task perfectly.

Our homework is to work on "hold" and "sit, stay, heel." Jack and I also need to work on walking at a heel, but we're already doing better on that.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

I am so excited for you and Jack!! You will be addicted shortly. Sounds like he is doing great, Michelle! Keep us posted


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

The weekend sounds awesome. Good job! I wish that there were something like this around here!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

it sounds wonderful! Jack did a great job, and it sounds like you really had a lot of fun. Addicting, isn't it??


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Sounds like a good first weekend! How does Prado look? I have heard there are not a lot of spots to train…

That is so funny about the flat-coat! They are certainly the clowns of the retriever world! Love them!


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I've only been there twice before this past weekend, so I'm not sure how different it looks. Bill said there is a lot less land than there used to be but it didn't seem to be that much of a problem. Of course, we have Bill arriving really early to get the spot he wants, so I'm sure we're a bit spoiled in that regard. I did notice that the big field (the one by the picnic tables and farm equipment) was smaller than I remembered due to the water, though.

Apparently people are also getting hassled a lot at the gate? She's so nice to me so it never even occurred to me that she could be difficult. I guess she asked a couple to bring proof that they are married next time! LOL (For those unfamiliar with the venue, the rule is that you pay $15 per married couple and 2 dogs, not for 2 people and 2 dogs. If you're not married you have to each pay $15.) I'm going to try bringing her a bagel or something next time and hopefully it'll put her in a good mood.


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## tanianault (Dec 11, 2010)

Sounds like an excellent weekend! And as for Jack's extended swim session - sounds like he has great stamina in the water 

- Tania


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Here are some photos from our first weekend of training: http://www.ruffryderkennels.com/Begining-Retriever-Class-Pictures.html

I'm in a few of them, but Jack's water retriever is the second to last picture on the bottom. (The photo is befoooore he decided to swim laps around the pond. )


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> Apparently people are also getting hassled a lot at the gate? She's so nice to me so it never even occurred to me that she could be difficult. I guess she asked a couple to bring proof that they are married next time! LOL (For those unfamiliar with the venue, the rule is that you pay $15 per married couple and 2 dogs, not for 2 people and 2 dogs. If you're not married you have to each pay $15.) I'm going to try bringing her a bagel or something next time and hopefully it'll put her in a good mood.


I think Elaina is really nice, but I think she gets a lot of grief from people because they don't understand the gate fees. It costs $15 per person. Even if you are in the same car, or you are coming with one dog and two people. When I brought Marlene to take pictures at our training day, I had to pay $15 for her to come in even though she was not training. Just what the rules are...

Nice pictures!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Cool picture of Jack! Thanks for sharing your journal, I enjoyed reading it. Sounds like you have a great group there. I had to laugh (a little) at the lab with a life jacket on. I've not seen a lab that needed one before. 

Keep up the great work! Maybe we'll see each other at a hunt test down the road.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

DNL2448 said:


> Cool picture of Jack! Thanks for sharing your journal, I enjoyed reading it. Sounds like you have a great group there. I had to laugh (a little) at the lab with a life jacket on. I've not seen a lab that needed one before.
> 
> Keep up the great work! Maybe we'll see each other at a hunt test down the road.


Don't feel bad for laughing....we all were chuckling to ourselves when she busted out the life jacket. She was worried since she had never swam before. But she did fine so I think she'll leave it off her in the future.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

just looked at the photos, it looks like great fun!


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

[self-editing.......]


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Whos that?!?!?


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

[self-editing again......] 

btw, where do you ladies get pants for training? I'm thinking of going to a military supply store for cargo pants...


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

I had a gift certificate to Bass Pro Shops, so ordered them online. I know a few people who got those jeans with the leather patches at Cabela's.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Today was our third day of class. We started off by going over how training had been the past two weeks and addressing any issues individual people were having. Then we moved on two land retrieves with changes in terrain. Each dog did three singles but the location and distance varied with some downhill, uphill and slight (very slight) change in cover. I was a little worried about how Jack would do, but I should have trusted that I was training him the right way. He did great on his 3 retrieves and Bill actually said to me "I don't know WHAT you were worried about." So I'm happy that we are progressing on land!!! Water is another story...

After everyone ran their dogs on land we moved over to do a decoy drill in the water. It was kind of a mess. Jack was really scared of the duck decoys and the wind was blowing so hard that all the decoys appeared to be swimming toward him. A classmate actually commented it looked like they were remote controlled to converge on Jack. :doh: He was understandably suspicious of the "attack decoys" and once they started moving towards him it was over. He was NOT going near the scary monster decoys and barked at them. I had an easier time getting control of him that I would have before we started training consistently, which was encouraging. And we did get him in the water to do three short retrieves away from the decoys. On the positive side, we had NO problem getting him out of the water today! Apparently attack decoys are scarier than getting stuck in the mud!

The rest of the class had varied results on land and water. Some were more successful in the water than on land. Others (like Jack) were more successful on land than in the water. So we're moving at different paces on different things, but that's to be expected. 

After we finished with water we went over some additional issues some dogs were having with the hold command and heeling. We figured out an effective method of correcting Jack on his heeling on leash (basically using a heeling stick to move him back about 6 inches), which was great. We also found out that starting tomorrow we're using birds! Apparently the next weekend we are transitioning to pigeons and then using dead ducks from that point on. We're each getting a pheasant wing tomorrow to tape to a bumper to practice holding with.  

Some of us stayed after to let the dogs run a bit. Surprisingly Jack did a very impressive water entry when going after a fun bumper and he had no problem with the mud at all. So it looks like we overcame that small hurdle! Overall it was a great day!!!


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Sounds perfect! I saw Jack playing in the water after class, looked like they were having a blast! Have fun tomorrow!!!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

it sounds like a fantastic day, and like Jack is progressing nicely! Have fun with the birds, that's when you see the *real* dog come out!


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

great!! He will get there! Are you addicted yet?


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

It's SO fun! The morning passed so quickly today. And seeing my progress with him as a result of consistent training just made me excited to see how far we can go.....I think an addiction is brewing


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

grinning ear to ear! welcome to the addict group!



goldenjackpuppy said:


> It's SO fun! The morning passed so quickly today. And seeing my progress with him as a result of consistent training just made me excited to see how far we can go.....I think an addiction is brewing


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> [self-editing again......]
> 
> btw, where do you ladies get pants for training? I'm thinking of going to a military supply store for cargo pants...


 
If you're going to take up training regularly, get a pair of Filson chaps. You can put them over any pair of jeans and you'll stay dry and thorn free.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

...those chaps look great for those of us that enjoy simple walking in the fields and puckerbrush! Ive ruined more pairs of jeans from thorns etc...


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I am looking at the chaps too  So far the sites are backordered for my size but they do look to be really helpful; probably help protect against poison ivy too?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

can you wear those chaps at UKC hunt tests?


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Today was awesome!!!! We were in the water the whole morning today and after yesterday's attack decoy session, I was (understandably) a little concerned about Jack's reaction to the water. I think letting him run around a bit in the water with the other dogs yesterday after class helped him immensely - so in hindsight that was a great idea.

First we worked on progressively longer retrieves in the water. I think Bill called it "stretching them out"? Maybe that's the wrong term? I also don't know if I've explained how we work the training. We have one group running, one group honoring and one group working. And we switch up which group runs first each time. 

Jack is doing fairly well at honoring, much better than most of the labs (had to get a lab dig in there somewhere since he gets called "pretty boy" all weekend!  ) The labs are generally very vocal to the point of almost screaming when the bumper is thrown for another dog. Jack is very intense in his waiting and breaks sometimes, but that's definitely not a huge hurdle for us at this point. 

My group threw bumpers first and all the dogs in the first group did fantastic. When it was our turn, Jack had no hesitation entering the water at all. I think his cowabunga water entries on his last two retrieves also shocked the hell out of everyone since it was a total 180 from yesterday's weenie dog behavior. We did have a little trouble getting him out of the water on his last retrieve, but it wasn't nearly as bad as last time. Still pretty embarrassing though! I told Bill that Jack's name was getting changed to "dammit!" pretty soon if he kept it up! He said he knows lots of dogs named "yousonofabitch!" so I felt a little better. Apparently the water antics are pretty entertaining to watch, so at least it provides some comedic relief for the rest of the class. 

Next we did some anti-cheating retrieves. Each dog had bumpers thrown progressively closer to the shore on the other side of the pond until a bumper was actually thrown on the shore across the pond. We were the first group to run and I think everyone was pretty nervous about the potential cheating. I really expected every dog to try to cheat, but I was surprised how few tried! Bill set up the working group in the perfect location to discourage any cheating. Jack was one of the first to run and his first retrieve in the middle of the pond was great. His second was thrown very close to shore but still in the water. As he was swimming to the bumper I saw a shot of black out of the corner of my eye and all of a sudden there was a black lab stealing Jack's bumper! (It turns out he actually broke his leash and his owner was very apologetic.) The working group quickly tossed another bumper near Jack and he acted like nothing had happened. Just got it, turned around and came back. His third retrieve was actually on the opposite shore and he did great. Not even an attempt to cheat...I'm sure having the lab jump into the water from that side helped encourage him to get his bumper and get back to me quickly! And he swam as fast as he could out to that last one! Nothing like the prospect of a stolen bumper to get a dog moving!

Only a couple dogs tried to cheat and it was usually because they couldn't find the bumper. But all but one dog eventually went straight back. The dog that didn't is having some motivation issues with retrieving and getting in the water, so they have bigger fish to fry with him right now. But overall Bill was very pleased with the progress all the dogs are making and said we're moving quicker than he expected. 

Last thing before we ended was we each got a pheasant wing to take home and attach to a bumper to start conditioning the dogs to feathers. Jack was more than happy to hold the pheasant bumper so I don't think we'll have any problems there. Our homework is to continue to work on heeling, continue to work on the hold command and conditioning to feathers. Next weekend we are working with live pigeons and dead ducks....should be interesting!!!!


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

You're going to be introduced to a different dog at the end of your leash next week. Put extra effort into the OB work this week. That flapping bird will be like crack to a crack addict.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> can you wear those chaps at UKC hunt tests?


It depends upon the judges. Some are getting extremely silly about attire.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Swampcollie said:


> You're going to be introduced to a different dog at the end of your leash next week. Put extra effort into the OB work this week. That flapping bird will be like crack to a crack addict.


That's good to know, I'll focus on the obedience work these next two weeks. Judging by his reaction to the bumpers I can't even imagine his excitement level when it's actual birds!


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I just saw that they have new photos up of our class almost 2 weeks ago. The first is from our "stretching them out" drill doing longer and longer water retrieves. The second is Jack on one of his longer water retrieves. The third is from our work with slight terrain changes.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Love the pictures! Especially the closeup, he looks like he is sitting nice there!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

sure looks like fun! I can't wait to hear his reaction to a bird!


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Me too!! 

Hmmm need 10 characters to post...


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Man, I'm getting a little nervous about the birds. Yesterday we were training with his pheasant wing bumper and had a little snafu. He's been retrieving it like a normal bumper for a week and a half, but yesterday right before he got to it the bumper rolled over. So, of course - as expected - it had come alive and was very strange (according to Jack). And we had to start back at square one with the pheasant wing bumper. The thing is....we have live pigeons on saturday. Clearly those are alive, hence the "live pigeons" description, so is he going to be nervous with the live birds? How to dogs typically react when they first see them?


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Different pups react differently. Be patient if it doesn't go as you expect it to. He may just jump right in there. But don't force it on him,tease instead but let him figure it out. Radar wasn't exceptionally birdy at first. But got over it big time.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Teddi won't play with birds.... We got her to do a feather on bumpers thing but that is as far as it has gone. HOWEVER, I have had a LOT of people tell me if I could get her in a pen with shackled pigeons or something it might make her come out of it. I just do not have that available to me, and it is not worth my pursuing with her. I have heard stories some dogs just take time. Then one day something inside of them snaps and birds are perfectly ok. 

Teddi was almost 3 when she was introduced. I think Teddi is a princess. She won't touch the duck, it's dead. LOL


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

He just might surprise you. Bumpers aren't supposed to come alive. Pigeons, on the other hand, are fascinating


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Birds can really bring out the retriever in some dogs, others take a bit more time.

Love the pictures


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Like others have said some take longer--Scout has been that way I just did not give up. Right now the thing is she likes birds, but she only wants to pick them up on HER terms. One minute may be jumping up and down trying to snatch one of out of my arms, the other minute sniffing one and walking away. We're working on it and it is getting better with more bird experience. She wasn't obsessive about bumpers in the beginning either, and know she is a total nutcase when she sees them.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I'm pretty confident in his prey drive, at least. We get to see it fairly regularly with the wild bunnies in our yard. (Unfortunately it hasn't done much to actually deter them from coming in the yard!) I'm not sure what he'd do if he actually caught one. 

I guess that is true though, a bumper has never seemed "alive" to him before but if isn't surprised by the birds being alive then it might be different. I'm more worried that they will spook him than that he won't be interested in them - if that makes sense. 

I do wonder if dogs get weirded out by things that look (or in this case, smell) like they should be alive (i.e. a wing taped to a bumper, fake dogs used to decorate houses, or decoys)? Like if the thing is actually alive they're fine with it, but the fake stuff is confusing? Jack did get weirded out by the "attack" duck decoys, so it's not really surprising that this happened, now that I think about it.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Well....today was interesting. We spent the whole day taking time with each dog with live and not-so-alive pigeons. I took photos for the class today, so Jack was the second to last dog to run. Most of the dogs did fantastic and all but *ahem* one at least picked up the bird. Even the dog who didn't like to retrieve or swim did great - they say every dog has his day, right? Today was Dude's day, he rocked. His owner was so relieved, I guess he had been really discouraged but this gave him the boost he needed. 

As you may have guessed, Jack was the one who wouldn't pick up the bird. He chased them, went to retrieve them and got weirded out. Not scared, but it looked like he thought it was completely unappealing. Other dogs had that problem, but eventually they would at least pick it up. Unfortunately Jack was being a stubborn SOB today and just wouldn't do it. He did express a lot more interest in the live pigeon versus the dead one, but it was frustrating nonetheless. Bill did everything he could during class to get him to pick it up, but it wasn't happening. We even tried again after the last dog ran, but nothing.

The positive side of the day for Jack was that after class was over Bill worked with him on holding the dead pigeon. He finally gave in and held the darn thing. Bill said he's not concerned in the slightest that Jack didn't like the pigeons. Apparently it's rather common for dogs to not want to pick them up initially ...we just had really good luck with the rest of the dogs in the class. Bill also said he's seen dogs refuse to pick up a dead bird the first time they see it and then the next time they do a 180 and pick it up. We shall see tomorrow when we train with ducks. 

I have to admit, I'm a little bummed out that Jack didn't immediately take to the idea of picking up birds. They were really bloody and nasty, admittedly, so I can't say I blame him. But other parts of our training have come easier to us than some of the other dogs, so we were bound to have some problems. Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day!  

Here are some photos from today!


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Looks like he's thinking about it but not sure exactly what to do. Be patient,work him through it.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

great photos, he's looking really handsome these days!
Did Bill try having him watch another dog with the pigeons, very close by? Sometimes jealousy will get them interested.
I understand you being bummed, but give him some time. It's a new and different experience for him!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I too can understand your being bummed, but Jack may do much better with ducks and the 'dark timing' that occurred overnight may have worked its magic as well. Sometimes there just seems to be a lag between the time a dog is introduced and starts training at something and when his mind seems to grasp it.

Good luck today


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Love the photos! He's a very handsome guy! And don't let the bird thing get you down. Even people with field bred goldens and labs can experience that problem. My friend's crazy and wild lab didn't want birds at first, only bumpers, then after more experience only wanted birds and not bumpers!


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Sunday went slightly better than Saturday. We were working with ducks, and Jack definitely seemed more interested in the ducks than the pigeons. Still didn't want to pick one up, but we got him retrieving a duck shaped bumper (that apparently is duck scented) and a bumper covered in feathers. So there was progress! Part of the problem, we discovered, is that he really really likes bumpers. We worked on marks on a hill with bumpers after we worked with the ducks, and Jack was back to being Jack. So we just need to work on making the connection in his brain that birds are just as fun to retrieve as bumpers. I think we'll get there. Several other dogs refused the ducks yesterday too, so I didn't feel like the sole remedial retriever class member like I did on Saturday. 

Bill let me take one of the ducks home to work with and I had (what ended up being) a pretty great idea when I got home: Jack always wants what Chloe has so why not work that to my advantage. I introduced Chloe to the duck on her own and she was very interested in it and carried it around the backyard a few times. I brought Jack out with us and it made Chloe want the duck even more since she was worried he'd get it. Once Jack saw Chloe all amped up on the duck, he decided he wanted it too. He still didn't pick it up spent a lot of time checking it out and he also rubbed his face all over it yuck. He definitely didn't do that in class, so again, there was progress.

I was lucky enough to have Jessica (sammydog) come over yesterday to help assemble baskets for the raffle at the GRCSDC Specialty this Friday. She brought over two pheasant feather bumpers and Jack did better than I thought he would with them. (Chloe was a manic over them...don't think we'll have any problem with her and birds!) She suggested working with him on the fetch command and got us started on it. I've used the command previously but only in the context of working on hold, so he didn't understand the command on it's own. I think that was great advice and we'll be working on that this week. I'm also only going to work on retrieves with the feather bumpers until we get over this hump. I don't want to bring the duck out again until I think he's reliable with retrieving the feathers, so it's resting comfortably in our freezer for the time being.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I have 5 ducks and a pheasant thawed in my fridge right now...I sure wish you were closer so you could come play! You'd just have to let Jack watch a couple other dogs go bonkers retrieving the birds and I'll bet he'd be right there wanting his share, too.
Seriously, sounds like you're making great progress!


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> I have 5 ducks and a pheasant thawed in my fridge right now...I sure wish you were closer so you could come play! You'd just have to let Jack watch a couple other dogs go bonkers retrieving the birds and I'll bet he'd be right there wanting his share, too.
> Seriously, sounds like you're making great progress!


That would be awesome! Too bad it be like a 3 day drive!  

In class I actually had him sit and watch while most of the other dogs ran. We ran him again at the end of the last group and it definitely upped his excitement level, but once he gets to the bird he looks at it, investigates a bit, sniffs it and then looks around like "um, I have an emergency! There's something dead here where my bumper should be!" And then he hunts around the area for the bumper. So he's doing all the right things (marking, using his nose, etc.) but it hasn't clicked in his head that we want him to do the same thing with birds as he does with bumpers. I think working on retrieves outside, even just fun bumpers but with the feathers, might help. That's what Bill thinks anyway. Any other suggestions?


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

It was fun making baskets and visiting with the pups! I think Jack ended up showing quite a bit of interest in the pheasant dummies after a few minutes, especially with his sister eager to take it away. What a riot she is! I think he just needs more exposure/practice! Maybe we can do some training after the Specialty...


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

I almost forgot, I LOVE those pictures, there are some great shots there!


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

sammydog said:


> It was fun making baskets and visiting with the pups! I think Jack ended up showing quite a bit of interest in the pheasant dummies after a few minutes, especially with his sister eager to take it away. What a riot she is! I think he just needs more exposure/practice! Maybe we can do some training after the Specialty...


Chloe's a crazy one when it comes to something she wants. And my suspicions were correct that she would want the duck and feathers. Now you know why I thought the class would be easier with her  I think we definitely should do training after the specialty! I've been wanting to get Chloe out a bit too. 

PS I realized you left the bigger dummy at my house. I can give it to you this weekend


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Jealousy can be a great tool. When I started doing field work with Win we used bumpers first so he thought that's what it was about. When he met his first bird I could not get him to pick it up. He would go out gangbusters, get to it and then sniff it and look at it like, "This isn't a bumper!" My Juni does not like dead birds, but did have a great obedience retrieve so I just made her hold the duck in front of him when we got home. Once it was something his big sister had, he was desperate to take it from her--and she was glad to be allowed to give it up! After that I finally decided to do FF, because once he got on birds he did not want anything to do with bumpers any more! So if your girly will parade around with the bird and tease him that may just do the trick.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

What helped Scout was throwing them in the water. She can't resist the water. I did the jealousy thing too but it didn't work as planned. We sent her for the bird, and when she did not pick it up sent a more experienced dog to get it. Well, Scout would not let the other dog pick up the bird! So nobody got to retrieve the duck.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

It sounds like the issues Jack is having are similar to Win and Scout. It's funny, Shelly, the description of Win is exactly what Jack does. 

I worked with both of them yesterday with the feather bumper. The other was crated while I trained so they could watch each other. (Of course the jealousy trick totally works on Chloe, but Jack is relatively calm in the crate.) We worked on "fetch" and did a couple 10 foot or so retrieves with the feather bumper. It's getting better, but on a couple of them he tried to pick it up by, like, one feather. Arg. I simply took it from him and had him fetch to carry it back. I'm just really hesitant to correct him very much on this since I don't want to take any steps back. But I think it's going to slowly improve. I don't want to bring out the duck again until he's consistently retrieving the feather bumper. By then he might be significantly more interested in the idea.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Early on Winter would not bring birds back either. She would fly out and bring them part way back and drop them on her way back to the line.
This is what helped us get past this. After she dropped the bird on a mark and returned to me I walked back out with her. I picked up the bird and placed it in her mouth (wings tucked in to make a nice easy bundle) and told her to "hold" with a normal tone of voice. Once I was sure she would hold the bird, I told her "heel" and started walking back to the line. She spit it out to heel with me. I stop picked up bird placed in her mouth with "hold" then "heel" and she just stood there. The look on her face was priceless. "Are you crazy I can't carry this bird and walk at the same time". I don't think she knew she could walk and carry the bird. I patted my leg "heel" She ever so slowly started walking, and walked with me back to the line. We had to do this 2 or 3 times but then the light came on and she started bring the bird all the way back. .......Well, at least until she got a really smelly yucky bird but that is another story. 
She was not FF or CC at the time. She did know Hold and Fetch. This was done with a quiet encouraging voice and a lot of praise.

Don't worry, I'm betting the light will come on for Jack too.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

It's been a couple weeks since I last updated. Jack came down with dead tail a few weeks back so we missed some training  But we're back into it and had our last classes this past weekend. 

Prior to this weekend I really focused on only letting Jack retriever feather bumpers. He was doing great with them at home and retrieving them like normal bumpers. On Saturday we worked with ducks again on land and water (actually a re-creation of a recent JH test). Jack actually surprised me and picked up his land duck! He carried it about half way back but then wouldn't pick it back up again. I went out and had him hold it and he carried it back to the line with me. He used to refuse to even hold the ducks, so definitely progress!!!!!  We had less success in the water for some reason. He kept trying to grab it but it would sink slightly and he'd miss it. It got really water logged and was probably not a good duck to use for a duck-shy dog. Eventually he gave up. But I was stoked that he picked up the duck on land!

Yesterday we had a mock hunt test, complete with live fliers, shooters and two AKC judges. Unfortunately Jack just wouldn't pick up the ducks on his own, especially the live flier. I had to go out to him and have him hold them to get him to carry the ducks back to the line. The judges were really nice and gave pointers on what to do. I told them before we started that he had just picked up a duck for the first time the previous day, so they were understanding. They said they had a dog who had to be FF to get her to pick up ducks, but once they did it was totally fine. They were happy with his marking and style though, so that was good to hear. Clearly we were not winning any trainability award though. :/

For the water he did basically the same thing. Unfortunately his live flier was a cripple, which surprised him quite a bit when he made it over to the bird. After a bit of swimming around and barking at the duck, I realized we just needed to get him out of the water. We finally sent one of the judge's dogs to get his birds and if it hadn't been so embarrassing it would have been hysterical. She casted her dog out to the bird and Jack was swimming right behind the dog (also a golden) doing everything she did, including turning around on the whistle to look at the the judge for direction. It was monkey see, monkey do. Pretty funny. Who knew Jack would get a lesson on water casting in the middle of our practice test?  

I brought a couple of the ducks home to keep working with him. He's definitely improving, but it's very slow. I'm happy he's finally happily holding and carrying the ducks, but now it's getting him to pick them up on his own. I keep waiting for the light to go on in his head that ducks are just as fun as bumpers, but it hasn't happened yet. So we have more work to do on that! I think it'll just need to be repetition and more familiarity with training with birds. I do wonder what he'd do with a pheasant though, since my wing bumper and the feather bumper that was loaned to me are both pheasant. And he picks those up just fine. We'll see I guess!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm glad to hear he's making progress! Sounds like you have an awesome training group, with simulated tests and all.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> For the water he did basically the same thing. Unfortunately his live flier was a cripple, which surprised him quite a bit when he made it over to the bird. After a bit of swimming around and barking at the duck, I realized we just needed to get him out of the water. We finally sent one of the judge's dogs to get his birds and if it hadn't been so embarrassing it would have been hysterical. She casted her dog out to the bird and Jack was swimming right behind the dog (also a golden) doing everything she did, including turning around on the whistle to look at the the judge for direction. It was monkey see, monkey do. Pretty funny. Who knew Jack would get a lesson on water casting in the middle of our practice test?


Oh my, how funny is this! 
Hang in there the light will come on.
One of my training partners said she had to FF on birds...her Golden girl now pick-ups up everything and is running blinds.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Keep at it and don't give up! It would be interesting to see what his response to other birds is. Scout has actually only really had problems with ducks. Pigeons she'll pick up (or eat *cough*), and she has brought a dead wild bird or two in the house before. Ducks are oily though and have a weird smell.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> I brought a couple of the ducks home to keep working with him. He's definitely improving, but it's very slow. I'm happy he's finally happily holding and carrying the ducks, but now it's getting him to pick them up on his own. I keep waiting for the light to go on in his head that ducks are just as fun as bumpers, but it hasn't happened yet. So we have more work to do on that! I think it'll just need to be repetition and more familiarity with training with birds. I do wonder what he'd do with a pheasant though, since my wing bumper and the feather bumper that was loaned to me are both pheasant. And he picks those up just fine. We'll see I guess!


Sounds like you are doing a lot of good things with Jack, don't worry, he'll get it. My first Golden, Bodie, had his first live flyer at a hunt test. The dang thing bit him all the way back to the line, suprised me that he did bring it back all the way (he wasn't FF'd at the time). After that test though, he wouldn't pick one up! I had to buy live ducks to work him on. Silly me, I bought domesitc ones and they were HUGE!!!! We worked through his issues and he did eventually earn his title.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

It's good to hear that other dogs have had the same issue. I have to admit, it was a bit discouraging to have the great opportunity to do a practice hunt test and my dog wouldn't pick up the birds. I mean, seriously, if the test had been with bumpers he would have been a rock star. It's just kind of a bummer. But I need to remember that he IS progressing, no matter how slow it is. 

I decided that I'm going do private training with Bill (now that our class is over) every other month. I think that gives us enough time to learn whatever it is were working on, but still have someone keeping tabs on us and be there to help us work through problems. I can also get Chloe in there soon, although I may do the class with her next year. I'm hoping to have her VERY ready for the class though - not a total beginner like Jack was.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> It's good to hear that other dogs have had the same issue. I have to admit, it was a bit discouraging to have the great opportunity to do a practice hunt test and my dog wouldn't pick up the birds. I mean, seriously, if the test had been with bumpers he would have been a rock star. It's just kind of a bummer. But I need to remember that he IS progressing, no matter how slow it is.


A training partner had to reminded me last week. "It's not a race, it's a journey." She pointed out how much we BOTH had learned so far, and that we are solid in what we can do. 
She ended her pep talk with...... Holly, remember it's just dogs picking up birds. 

Hang in the light will come on.


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