# I'm freaking out! HELP!



## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I can't really help you but could it be too much training pressure? I know in agility and other areas I have trained the dogs "revolt" when too much pressure is applied. Try taking it back a notch, and make if fun again. 

Good luck, don't stress that will make it worse.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

You have a pup that is very confused and feeling too much pressure...
IMO and this is just my opinion - but an Utility level obedience dog that is bolting as you walk toward her to correct a non-sit is not ring ready. 

Time to go through your training log and really analyze your training program especially noting your corrections (timing and type of) as they may be too harsh for her. Time to figure how to become a more encouraging teacher...

A non-sit (to me) is a sure sign of stress in an older, more experienced obed dog. Any chance she is in pain?


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

She's very young. Just turned 2 in March...  I'm sure it is stress because the moment I say "Yes!" she cuts out her nervous messing around..

I guess I should just keep it happy until the weekend? I just don't know if I'll be able to correct her much when she makes a mistake without her freaking out and shutting down...


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Again just my opinion, but I would seriously consider pulling her....and yes, by all means, put the happy and fun back into your training. Even going back to the very simple basics like re-training a happy, fast, sit. 
Patience.....Obedience exercises are a symbol of the relationship you have built with your dog. Rebuild the fun!!!


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

I took a break and worked just basics: sits, fast drops, a few go-outs, etc with her just a bit ago. I noticed she was a lot happier and we kept it fun and short. Not a whole lot of corrections, but I immediately followed them with praise. Part of our problem is that our relationship IS so tight. Layla picks up my emotions and stress levels so easily and the second that she makes a mistake, SHE quickly corrects herself. She's pretty hard on herself... It's just something we need to work through. I'm working her at the club tonight so I'll see how it goes!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Just my IMO, but I can't imagine a golden being truly mature enough for utility at 2yrs old.

Try ignoring mistakes, not formally correcting them. Correct = praise and/or treat and mistake = you disengage for 3 seconds and then pick up where you left off.

And DO NOT pressure yourselves for this weekend.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I disagree.
Tito is exactly the same age, also born in March, and quite mature enough. He did real well in his utility debut a month ago, although he did NQ, he did a terrific job. He's showing in utility (AKC) twice this coming weekend. 
Depends on the dog. Some of our trainers have OTCH goldens shortly after the dog turns 3.
But to address the original question, emily, RELAX!!!!! She's feeling your stress and feeding off of it. Just consider it yet another fun match, and whatever happens, happens. You'll be fine, she'll be fine. 
GOOD LUCK, and let us know how it goes!!!!




FlyingQuizini said:


> Just my IMO, but I can't imagine a golden being truly mature enough for utility at 2yrs old.
> 
> Try ignoring mistakes, not formally correcting them. Correct = praise and/or treat and mistake = you disengage for 3 seconds and then pick up where you left off.
> 
> And DO NOT pressure yourselves for this weekend.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

hotel4dogs said:


> I disagree.
> Tito is exactly the same age, also born in March, and quite mature enough. He did real well in his utility debut a month ago, although he did NQ, he did a terrific job. He's showing in utility (AKC) twice this coming weekend.
> Depends on the dog. Some of our trainers have OTCH goldens shortly after the dog turns 3.
> But to address the original question, emily, RELAX!!!!! She's feeling your stress and feeding off of it. Just consider it yet another fun match, and whatever happens, happens. You'll be fine, she'll be fine.
> GOOD LUCK, and let us know how it goes!!!!


Well, just my opinion, but I think it puts a lot of pressure on the dog, particularly dogs whose owners describe them as "soft" and "shutting down" if they make mistakes. Whenever I hear that, part of me always wonders how much of it is from the pressure of that much training at a young age. I think it's easy for us to under-estimate the stress that is inherent in learning. Not saying learning stress is bad, but it's stress nonetheless and I think when humans are in a hurry to get into the ring, the various stressors can add up.


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

Hmm, well, I'm fairly impetuous so I would probably go ahead and show, ready or not. 

But I would also be ready to treat it as a "see where we are" kind of thing and make it real fun for her in the ring. I think it depends on your attitude toward showing.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Here's the thing... if you're going to step into the ring this weekend, you need to accept NOW that you are not going to qualify. Treat it as a fun match (minus the coaching in the ring), decide it's all about experience, and put all goals/grand visions off the table. 

I think it's likely others are right when they say she is feeding off your energy. Especially if these "issues" just cropped up (or got significantly worse) just recently... i.e. since the match show when you mentally started preparing for the real deal. By deciding now that your only goal is to get in the ring and have fun, by deciding that ribbons of any color (including green) are off the table, hopefully you can get back to your normal level of intensity. I would take Quiz's advice about how to respond to missed cues in training, especially in these days leading up to the show. Break everything back down into games, keep it fun!! No "corrections." 

My boy can be soft at times (and unbelievably hard headed at others :doh, and I'm quickly learning through our Utility training better ways of handling mistakes without blowing his confidence. It's definitely a steep learning curve, and we have a long way to go. I think it's something that, in the long run/beyond this trial, you might choose to focus more on. (just my opinion, no judgment here) 

I wish you luck this weekend... and by that I mean I hope both you and your pup have FUN!

Julie and Jersey


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

Jersey's Mom said:


> Here's the thing... if you're going to step into the ring this weekend, you need to accept NOW that you are not going to qualify. Treat it as a fun match (minus the coaching in the ring), decide it's all about experience, and put all goals/grand visions off the table.
> 
> Julie and Jersey


I think this is good advice, but honestly, why wouldn't you - if you're throwing this run away anyway (which is an excellent game plan) - go for broke and train (within limits) in the ring? Don't push your luck and don't PO the judge - but why the heck not play in the ring a little? I'm not saying over the top and disruptive - but why not tell her every little thing she's doing right? You're working a confidence issue for both dog and handler, it's a young green dog with the potential for causing MORE stress in the utility ring - which is already stressful...You aren't doing anything in there that hasn't been done before - be kind and fair to your dog and MOST judges will give you latitude - worse case you get a judge that excuses you after you reward your dog (praise or pets) and you party out of the ring...

Personally I'd pull from the show - long term success is more important to me than saving face or my entry fee...but if you're going anyway make it a positive experience for both of you.

Erica


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I've found that, in general, UKC judges are pretty good about allowing you some light training in the ring, especially if you've already NQ'd. I agree, I'd try to work it like a fun match, within limits. Help build her confidence a bit.




MurphyTeller said:


> I think this is good advice, but honestly, why wouldn't you - if you're throwing this run away anyway (which is an excellent game plan) - go for broke and train (within limits) in the ring? Don't push your luck and don't PO the judge - but why the heck not play in the ring a little? I'm not saying over the top and disruptive - but why not tell her every little thing she's doing right? You're working a confidence issue for both dog and handler, it's a young green dog with the potential for causing MORE stress in the utility ring - which is already stressful...You aren't doing anything in there that hasn't been done before - be kind and fair to your dog and MOST judges will give you latitude - worse case you get a judge that excuses you after you reward your dog (praise or pets) and you party out of the ring...
> 
> Personally I'd pull from the show - long term success is more important to me than saving face or my entry fee...but if you're going anyway make it a positive experience for both of you.
> 
> Erica


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I don't have any advice about whether or not to pull out of the competition, but I do have a training tip. If your girl is shutting down in the face of corrections, the corrections are too much and unnecessary for the current training phase. I know it's more traditional to train for obedience/utility with a heavy proportion of corrections mixed in, but this might be a good phase, as Quiz suggested, to marking undesired behavior simply with a pointed silence and freeze on your part.

It's a great way to keep the dog engaged and to put the fun back in the job, and it won't undermine her skills if you ignore with the same precision you use while correcting.


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Well, just my opinion, but I think it puts a lot of pressure on the dog, particularly dogs whose owners describe them as "soft" and "shutting down" if they make mistakes. Whenever I hear that, part of me always wonders how much of it is from the pressure of that much training at a young age. I think it's easy for us to under-estimate the stress that is inherent in learning. Not saying learning stress is bad, but it's stress nonetheless and I think when humans are in a hurry to get into the ring, the various stressors can add up.


I'm not trying to start an argument, but Layla had definitely NOT had too much pressure in training in her young life. I do this because Layla WANTS to work.. When I say Layla is soft, yes, she does not enjoy being corrected. In fact, she often corrects herself (by popping herself into position automatically when she knows she is not in heel position, by dropping even a bit delayed... etc). I don't think I have been too hard on this dog, she simply loves to WORK. I will not think even for a moment I have rushed her. She has shone me that SHE wants to do this. Never in a million years would I have guessed when I picked her up from the breeders that she would be where she is at right now two years later. And I'm not gonna get upset about it. Good for her! If we NQ, it's not the end of the world. Utility is HARD. But she LOVES it! When we get ready to go to our club to work, I have never seen this dog soo excited.

Layla knows that she is a companion FIRST. She has a wonderful family that loves her to death. Our relationship is so tight, it's indescribable. She picks up on my emotions unlike any dog I've had.

So, I do not believe I am doing the wrong thing. Do I expect her to NQ, sure. But I'm gonna give it my all and work MY butt off even if the result is walking out of the ring early if I must...

Emily


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

You go girl! I'll be cheering for you in my mind!




goldengirls550 said:


> So, I do not believe I am doing the wrong thing. Do I expect her to NQ, sure. But I'm gonna give it my all and work MY butt off even if the result is walking out of the ring early if I must...
> 
> Emily


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Emily - go for it! Be prepared to be excused or ask to be excused from the ring if need be, but show Layla that Utility can be fun. 

Oh, and if you could let the next person up know you may be exiting early, that would be a plus - been on both sides of the fence on this one and I must say I do prefer to know ahead of time if I may be going in a bit earlier LOL


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

goldengirls550 said:


> Oh, and one more thing. I have been closely watching many great OTCH teams.. Some seem to play with their dogs a little between exercises and some just say "OK" and keep their dog heeling formally the entire time they are in the ring. I have had/still do have focus issues IN BETWEEN exercises in the past, especially when Layla stresses. What should I do in between exercises?
> Emily


My trainer advocates playing bewtween exercises (for my dogs) to get your dog refocused on you after breaking for each exercise but some dogs will go over the top with playing; try both ways and see which works best for you - when your dog stresses playing will often relieve that stress. This coming trial would be a great opportunity to try different things if you don't need the Q.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

goldengirls550 said:


> I'm not trying to start an argument, but Layla had definitely NOT had too much pressure in training in her young life. I do this because Layla WANTS to work.. When I say Layla is soft, yes, she does not enjoy being corrected. In fact, she often corrects herself (by popping herself into position automatically when she knows she is not in heel position, by dropping even a bit delayed... etc). I don't think I have been too hard on this dog, she simply loves to WORK. I will not think even for a moment I have rushed her. She has shone me that SHE wants to do this. Never in a million years would I have guessed when I picked her up from the breeders that she would be where she is at right now two years later. And I'm not gonna get upset about it. Good for her! If we NQ, it's not the end of the world. Utility is HARD. But she LOVES it! When we get ready to go to our club to work, I have never seen this dog soo excited.
> 
> Layla knows that she is a companion FIRST. She has a wonderful family that loves her to death. Our relationship is so tight, it's indescribable. She picks up on my emotions unlike any dog I've had.
> 
> ...


OK, "you won't think for a minute that you've rushed her" in what you describe as "her young life" but when your subject line is that "you're freaking out" over something that should be FUN and then you mention a dog that is shutting down in training and then running away when you move towards her to correct her - that is not a confident work partner in this endeavor. I don't know why you would put yourselves in a situation where you condition failure or stress and not be able to fix it?...Just my opinion of course.
Erica


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

Sunrise said:


> Emily - go for it! Be prepared to be excused or ask to be excused from the ring if need be, but show Layla that Utility can be fun.
> 
> Oh, and if you could let the next person up know you may be exiting early, that would be a plus - been on both sides of the fence on this one and I must say I do prefer to know ahead of time if I may be going in a bit earlier LOL



Thank you so much Barb and Sunrise! Oh, and letting the next person know won't be a problem since I'm the only A dog! :


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

MurphyTeller said:


> OK, "you won't think for a minute that you've rushed her" in what you describe as "her young life" but when your subject line is that "you're freaking out" over something that should be FUN and then you mention a dog that is shutting down in training and then running away when you move towards her to correct her - that is not a confident work partner in this endeavor. I don't know why you would put yourselves in a situation where you condition failure or stress and not be able to fix it?...Just my opinion of course.
> Erica


I never said that she is completely 100% confident. There is gonna be road bumps along the way and that is expected. Yesterday morning was not what I had envisioned seeing. Layla is a worker and while we aren't perfect with the confidence, she is willing to give it her all. Last night at the club was MUCH better. She was back to her normal self. We went back and worked on a few problem areas, but it was just points last night...


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

JMO as I said earlier I don't know obedience, but in agility with my dog "less is more" don't over prepare and you BOTH will be fine. 

My biggest issue is when something goes wrong, I worry about putting undo stress on my dog the next time, then I start worrying that my worrying will put stress on her. It is a catch 22. Just go in there with confidence of your training to date and you will be fine. You need to be confident so your dog can be. They read us WAY too well.

Have fun!!


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

You know, sometimes I do a lot better taking a couple of days off before a show and not messing with stuff- otherwise I try to fix too much, etc. You might try that. Lots of luck this weekend- you will do great


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Emily-

I like the advice the others have given you. And hun, it does take awhile for a dog to be ready for Utility, let alone Novice! lol. I think just keeping your cool and not getting frustrated, will help both of you. If she reads off of you as being mad/furious with her, she'll start getting confused as to what you want. I think making it fun and telling her what you really want, and remember to PRAISE, PRAISE, PRAISE!!, when you correct her...then break it off and play. Go back and do the thing you're working on 5 minutes later, if she does the same thing...PRAISE PRAISE PRAISE! and the ntake a break and do it again...but maybe wait longer, just so things sink into her head. A break does you both good sometimes and then going back out with the HAPPIEST smile of your face! lol. 

good luck!


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks again for the advice everyone. Today was a lot better. This morning, I took Layla with me to a local pet store. We walked around and did a lot of leave it games. FAST fun recalls. And playing tug in the store. We also did pivots (she LOVES LOVES LOVES pivots) in the store. I played around with a few signals. But basically, it was a mix of play and working- a good balance. We are just gonna take it easy the next few days and go from there... :crossfing


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

goldengirls550 said:


> I'm not trying to start an argument, but Layla had definitely NOT had too much pressure in training in her young life. I do this because Layla WANTS to work.. When I say Layla is soft, yes, she does not enjoy being corrected. In fact, she often corrects herself (by popping herself into position automatically when she knows she is not in heel position, by dropping even a bit delayed... etc). I don't think I have been too hard on this dog, she simply loves to WORK. I will not think even for a moment I have rushed her. She has shone me that SHE wants to do this. Never in a million years would I have guessed when I picked her up from the breeders that she would be where she is at right now two years later. And I'm not gonna get upset about it. Good for her! If we NQ, it's not the end of the world. Utility is HARD. But she LOVES it! When we get ready to go to our club to work, I have never seen this dog soo excited.
> 
> Layla knows that she is a companion FIRST. She has a wonderful family that loves her to death. Our relationship is so tight, it's indescribable. She picks up on my emotions unlike any dog I've had.
> 
> ...


Go have fun this weekend. Whatever happens, happens. 

All I'm saying is, your first post said:

"The problem is, she has become SOO soft lately and is very difficult to work with let alone correct."

OK. So what do you YOU think has caused her to, apparently over time, demonstrate an increase in her softness in training? And really, if a dog is shying away from the correction, however minor in our opinion, then for that particular dog, the correction is likely too much. You're certainly welcome to disagree with me, but I stand by my statement that it's often a sign of too much stress on the dog... and I've seen it happen with lots of obedience handlers - yes, even those with OTCH dogs. (I was recently out training near a multi-OTCH handler. She was working her dog. The dog kept yawning. She made the comment to her friend, "I just don't know why he's so tired today..." :doh:

Your responses sound a bit like you've jumped on the defensive. Totally not necessary. And even if my assessment were correct, it's nothing to get defensive about - it's not like you did it on purpose. You're out working a sport you enjoy with a dog you love.

If what you've been doing (however you're correcting for mistakes, frequency of training, etc.) isn't working, change YOUR behavior. I personally think toe stubbing and speed scruffing may be too aversive for your soft dog. Why not try something else? Turning and running away as the dog goes out for the dumbbell or article is a great way to build speed on their return, etc., since they turn and see that you've gotten away from them.


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

Thank you Stephanie. I was a little frustrated, so I probably did get a bit defensive. That said, I will keep your tips in mind. You are right. Layla just might be one of those dogs that doesn't handle corrections well. I am NOT a proponent of harsh physical corrections. It just made me wonder enough to post why Layla was shutting down yesterday when I tapped her toe...

Emily


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Re Training in the ring: Points well taken, hadn't quite considered it that way. I was talking more obvious (to me at least) training than extra praise. I like the approaches stated though, make it a party within reason and keep the pup happy to work. Added bonus that you're the only dog in the A class.

Glad to hear things keep picking back up. "Defensiveness" aside, the statement in your post about Layla picking up on your emotions seems very likely much in line with what you're seeing. Keep your stress in control and I have a feeling she'll respond in kind. Unfortunately, if you're like me with the "ring nerves," that's easier said than done...

Julie and Jersey


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## Augie's Mom (Sep 28, 2007)

There's a CD called "Positively Ringwise" by Patti Ruzzo. I listen to it on my drive to every show. She explains how her stress affected her dog's performance in the ring and how she fixed herself and thus improved her dogs performance. 

One great take away from this CD was that she tells you not to nag the dog or focus on what is wrong before a show, but to focus on what the dog does right. It's about $20 for the CD and you can get it from Dogwise or J and J.

Good Luck and remember no matter what happens in the ring it's not the end of the world.

I usually go shopping at the vendors after our run to either celebrate or console, either way its SHOPPING and we leave on a happy note.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

goldengirls550 said:


> Thank you Stephanie. I was a little frustrated, so I probably did get a bit defensive. That said, I will keep your tips in mind. You are right. Layla just might be one of those dogs that doesn't handle corrections well. I am NOT a proponent of harsh physical corrections. It just made me wonder enough to post why Layla was shutting down yesterday when I tapped her toe...
> 
> Emily


No worries.

The hard part, IMO, is remembering that the definition of things like "harsh physical corrections" or even "high value treats" is the dog's not ours! :uhoh: Maybe for her, toe-tapping is too much... 

How long have you been focusing on the utility exercises? The other thing that I think happens often is that we, the humans, start making assumptions that our dogs "know" a behavior long before they are really fluent at it. I think it we start using corrections too often before the dog is fluent (defined as being able to do the behavior in different contexts, etc.) then we're adding undue stress. Dogs are such contextual learners. 

Even something as simple as a person usually training with a bait pouch on -- and then eventually taking the pouch off -- can cause the behavior to deteriorate b/c to the dog, the human wearing the pouch was part of the picture. 

Anyway, I think corrections before a dog is generalized and fluent, can become tricky. Some dogs handle them just fine. I know I've unfairly issued "corrections" on Quiz when maybe he really didn't understand what I wanted in a specific context. I try hard not to, but we all do it... BUT thankfully, he's drivey enough that they don't shut him down.

OK. I'm babbling. Bottom line - go and have fun and enjoy the time with your dog. That's what it's all about anyway!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

How'd it go?


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

I was emailing/texting Emily a few days ago....and Saturday went okay she said, and Layla got spooked by the judge on signals and ran towards Emily on that exercise with her tail tucked...=[
On the go outs she did one perfect go out and a perfect over the jump. The next go out was off center and then she took the wrong jump.

The second trial she said was MUCH better! The ONLY thing that Layla didn't do was not drop on her signal...otherwise she would've qualified!! The judge told her that it's coming along! It just needs time!

I hope Emily isn't upset I shared this with everyone...but I'm not sure she goes on here much...so I thought I'd help her out and not make everyone wait any longer! lol!

And there's always next time Emily, keep working hard and love your dog, and all your dreams will come true! =]


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Emily that's wonderful! I'm so proud of you and Layla!


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

Sounds like it went great


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