# A Promise Kennels in CA?



## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Although I am new to this forum, i can see it offers a lot of great information. I am looking for a puppy to add to my home and am curious about this breeder. 
I have read other posts regarding choosing a breeder and this breeder seems to have it together. Am wondering about anyone elses thoughts.
Thanks


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Hello and welcome to the GRF! :wavey:

Here is what I saw looking at A Promise Kennels website.

They definitely put up a lot of info, almost makes it hard to decipher in my opinion. But that does not make it bad, just a little tougher to dig through. Looking at the breedings they have listed these would be the questions I would have for them. Again these are questions, not saying there is a problem, I would ask. 

In general most of the dogs owned by them seem to have heart clearances by practitioners. You would want a specialist or board cardiologist to do these. 
A number of their dogs eyes are not done yearly according to the CERF database. It is generally accepted that eyes be checked yearly. However they may just submit the original CERF exam and then check the eys yearly but not submit to CERF. 

As for specific pairings

Soda/Brew 
appears to be an oops litter. But they do have clearances with both dogs eyes not done since 2007, and Brew's heart is by a practitioner.

Jake/Recess
According to K9data both dogs have CERF clearances but there is nothing on either dog in the CERF database.
Jake's heart is by a practitioner and on Recess there is no heart listed in OFA database. It is possible that there is a heart clearance just not sent in to OFA

Hope/Tonka
Both dogs eyes have not been done sine 2007 according to CERF's database. Again could have done since and not submitted.
Hope also does not have a heart clearance listed in OFA's database. Again could have been done just not submitted.

Faith/Sailor
Faith eyes not done since 2007 according to CERF database. Heart done by a practitioner.
Sailor no clearance for eyes listed in CERF database and no elbow clearance listed in OFA.


So as I stated there is a lot of info but I would have questions if I was considering a pup from any of these breedings for this breeder. And I would of course need to see the actual reports/exams as I do not take anyone's words in matter such as this.

And just so this is not taken as all negatives on this breeder It is positive that they are involved in showing their dogs and not just breeding them. Also the pedigrees behind these dogs are very nice.


Good luck in your search for a pup.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I did not check as thoroughly as you suggest. I took a look at the fact they had clearances and the hips status seemed good with all the parents. I now have more questions to ask them. 
I have a Golden with hip issues so it is really important that the hips are at least a Good in the parents. I also have a Golden with an "iffy" temperament so sound temperament and structure are important to me. I dabble in rally and obedience so there are a lot of factors that come into play when getting a new pup. I am not looking for a high drive Golden as i need a pup that can blend easily into my household.
Thanks for the welcome and the response.


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## piemama (Nov 8, 2009)

I ran into their website the other day since I'm looking for breeders in CA. I'm also new so I'm still trying to figure out what to look for and how to read clearance info. Let us know if you find anything. Good luck on your search!


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

So far, I have had a lot of GREAT communication with this breeder. She has been open, honest and patient with a multitude of questions that I have thrown at her. One of her champion dogs is showing in breed at the Palm Springs Kennel Club Show this weekend and another is showing in Ventura later this month.
I am still figuring out my plan but I definitely like my discussions with this breeder so far.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Just as additional information, this breeder's dog, Tonka, took Best of Breed among 80 dogs at the Saturday Palm Springs show and will be showing at Westminster. 
I am wondering about the number of planned breedings listed. Does it seem excessive?


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## PromisePlus (Jun 19, 2009)

*More info on Promise Kennels*

Hi All,
I know these posts are from 2010 but thought I would give a little more info for anyone interested - as I was dorected to these posts by a member of the Promise Family.

I am Judy and the owner of Promise Kennels. All of our dogs have their clearances, although as one poster mentioned, not all had been submitted. Our CERFs are completed - usually have Vet opthamologist David Lipton come to our Promise Reunions and complete eye CERFs for all our dogs and any of our Promise puppies/dogs whose owners are here and would like them done. 

As for the cardiac listing for our girl Hope, it is now listed on the OFA and you can follow this link:
Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

Again I had not sent the clearance in for it to be listed on the OFA site but it is done now. 

It is extremely important to me that all our dogs have their clearances - which they do - I just don't always get them into the snail mail. LOL I DO add copies of clearances to our Puppy Manuals that each Promise puppy owner gets. They can also see the originals when they visit us. 

BTW, the original requester for info about us - (BayBeams)- has a Promise Golden now, as can be seen in her sig line - Promise's Purpose Driven Vision. 

If anyone has any other questions or concerns please do not hesitate to email me. As time permits I answer all emails I receive.

HAVE A GOLDEN DAY - and start EVERY day with PROMISE!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

PromisePlus said:


> Hi All,
> I know these posts are from 2010 but thought I would give a little more info for anyone interested - as I was dorected to these posts by a member of the Promise Family.
> 
> I am Judy and the owner of Promise Kennels. All of our dogs have their clearances, although as one poster mentioned, not all had been submitted. Our CERFs are completed - usually have Vet opthamologist David Lipton come to our Promise Reunions and complete eye CERFs for all our dogs and any of our Promise puppies/dogs whose owners are here and would like them done.
> ...


Don't you send in your CERF's?


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## tomheadland (Sep 16, 2012)

*Edgar*

Hi everyone,

I bought my golden retriever, Edgar, from Promise Kennels in September 2011. I bought Edgar as a present to my wife and daughter, who was two and a half at the time. Of course, we immediately fell in love with Edgar. He was a beautiful dog and REALLY smart. Also, my wife and I did not have to worry AT ALL with his behavior around our daughter. He was completely docile and gentle around her.
So, fast forward 11 months later. This is less then one year into Edgar's life. My wife notices that he is limping on one of his hind legs. I think that he maybe layed on it wrong and it fell asleep. So, I tell her not to worry about it and we'll just wait it out. The NEXT day, he can barely walk so I decide to rush him to the vet. The vet tells he that his lower spine is causing him so much pain, he had to be sedated for an x-ray. Edgar almost bit the vet during the check-up because it was so painful. Now I know something is wrong. Edgar was the most non-aggressive dog I'd ever known. So, the vet takes an x-ray (doesn't find anything), gives us some muscle relaxant and pain relievers and sends us out the door. He said that if it gets worse after one week, we should get an MRI because the problem might be neurological. The vet opined that it could be a spinal degenerative disease because Edgar is a pure blonde-haired golden retriever. Even though spinal degenerative diseases are extremely rare, they do show up in pure goldens and the blonde-haired goldens are an even more rare breed. Therefore, the vet has seen this disease in dogs like Edgar.
Now, when I bring him home, he's already lost use of both his legs, cannot control his bladder, and is crying non-stop. The next day Edgar cannot even get up from a laying position. We also couldn't pet him because every time we would pet his back, he would cry. I finally make the hard decision to put him down instead of subjecting him to all these other tests when he's obviously deteriorating past a point of no return.
So, a couple days go by and my wife is in contact with Judy (the owner of Promise Kennels). After Edgar dies, Judy sends her an email saying he must have been bitten by a black widow spider. What a crock of ********!! Of course, she immediately takes any blame away from her ****in breed. Obviously, this makes me very upset. Judy offers to send us another puppy. I tell her no, all of us (me, my wife, and especially my daughter) are already heart-broken and do not want to be subjected to another similar event. So, I write Judy and tell her I want reimbursement on my purchase ($1,900) and the last of the vet bills (around $300). This is it. Judy guarantees her dogs' health for up to 18 months right; it's in her contract. Edgar didn't make it past one year. 
So, after three emails to Judy, she never writes back. Now, I'm going to speak to lawyer and take everything I can from her.
Look, I know that this post is a little emotional. But why wouldn't it be? We loved our dog, and that's emotional. I'm writing this post to warn other potential buyers to STAY AWAY from Promise Kennels. Go somewhere else. There are tons of other breeders out there. Even if you're thinking, "this is the only negative review I've read about Promise Kennels so it must be the exception, not the norm." Well, would you want to take that chance?


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Okay....hold on there!! First I am so sorry for your loss. But, honestly do you know what he died of???? Did you have a necropsy done? Did he ever go in for an mri?? There could be many things it could be. You are accusing the breeder of it being genetic and in reality you do not know what happened.

Then you are trying to "take everything I can from her" is so behind harsh! How do you know that she is not doing research on what coukd have happened?? Did you contact her when this happened to edgar?? Or did you wait to contact her after you decided to put him down?? 

There is soooo many unanswered questions here. What does the contract say...reinbursement? Another puppy?? You can not expect money back if the contract does not state it. And give money back for something she is not sure what happened and neither are you.

Again, I am terribly sorry for you loss.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

I am so sorry to read Edgar, you and your family had to suffer through this. Life really can be very cruel and we never know why something like this in our lives. I can only hope your pain eases in the very near future.
That said I think your grief and anger may have the best of you. I again hope you and yours are able to get past this horrible pain very quickly.


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## PromisePlus (Jun 19, 2009)

*Setting The Record Straight*

Dear Tom - and all those out in Golden Land... I am writing because a friend let me know there is a post about me in this forum... 

I am pasting all my replies to Tom's wife Jessica, along with her posts. She contacted me on Facebook. I feel you discuss problems together. I had no idea you felt this way Tom... I would not have posted these replies except that you are putting it all out into a public arena... You paint me as a breeder who does not care. That is false. Unfortunately we do not know WHAT caused poor Edgar to pass away - there was no necropsy done. When we go over paperwork when you pick up your puppy, I TELL EVERYONE that if something happens to the puppy, you would be able to get a replacement puppy - no charge. Even if it is AFTER the 3 year guarantee. I do this because I believe Goldens should live long, healthy lives. This doesn't apply for accidental deaths - but that doesn't mean I wouldn't. And I usually tell the story of another puppy family who were up at the beach in Northern California and their 4 yr old came up onshore after swimming, and passed away - right there, no warning. They got a free replacement puppy - BECAUSE I THINK YOU SHOULD TREAT OTHERS HOW YOU WANT TO BE TREATED. I am saddened to read your post. I understand you are angry because of the loss of Edgar. But striking out and blaming ME for something I had no control over is not fair.

Here are the messages between Jessica and myself:
August 23, 2012 - JESSICA
Hi Judy,
How are you? We just moved to Austin about a month ago, and I wanted to give you an update on Edgar (Tonka x Hope litter September 2011). He's such a wonderful dog, and has been completely healthy, no issues. We had a normal day with him yesterday, took him to the park and he had a great time. Normally he will come home and nap for a while, which he did. He ate dinner as normal as well. But then last night around midnight he kept crying. I thought he had to go outside but he wouldn't get up. I noticed his hind leg looked strange, it was very straight. When he was finally able to stand he limped. He wouldn't sit down, and getting up and laying back down has been very difficult for him. This morning he had gotten worse, and by this afternoon he couldn't even get out of bed. My husband had to carry him to the car in order to get him to the vet. The doctor said when he checked his lower spine Edgar tried to bite him because it caused him so much pain, so at that point they decided to sedate him. He did the examination and ran some xrays and was not able to find what the issue is. They're keeping him overnight and is planning on sending him home with us tomorrow with muscle relaxants and hope that it improves on its own within a week. If it doesn't he plans on doing an MRI. I wanted to let you know what was going on, but also ask you if you had any experience with any of your goldens having similar issues? The vet had some guesses but can't tell us anything concrete at this time. As you can imagine, we are very worried about him. He had said he thought it might be a degenerative spinal issue, but then again it could just be a pulled muscle. I hope to hear back from you soon.
Thank you.
Jessica Headland

August 23, 2012 MY REPLY
Hi. Wow. The only thing that came to mind was a TBD. Tick borne disease. They can cause all sorts of muscle pain. Let me know what the vet says. ((( I hope they do some testing for TBD. Not all vet's are well versed in them.

Could be a pulled muscle to torn tendon maybe? Maybe he twisted his spine somehow?

And Texas? :-o

Let me know what the vet finds out.
((((hugs)))) wish I had an answer.


August 23, 2012 JESSICA
Hi Judy, Thank you for the reply. He only did xrays today, and let us take Edgar home. His condition has gotten much worse, now he can't get up at all and keeps soiling himself. Even after being sedated and taking the muscle relaxants he is in a lot of pain. I will contact the vet first thing in the morning and ask him to run some blood tests, and let him know about getting tested for TBD. I'm not really sure about him pulling anything, or twisting his spine...I didn't witness anything..? At this point I just want him to feel better so I hope they're able to figure out the problem soon. I'll keep you in the loop and let you know everything we learn. Thank you!
Jessica

August 24, 2012 MY REPLY
Oh my goodness. ? poor boy. ((

August 24, 2012 JESSICA
Edgar didn't make it

August 24, 2012 MY REPLY
Oh I am sooooo sorry!!! What did the vet say???

August 24 MY REPLY
I know you are reeling from your loss. How horrible and fast whatever it was!!! Please let me know when you can what happened. ((

August 25 JESSICA
Hi Judy, I'm still in a lot of shock, everything happened so quickly. He was so much worse the next morning, and in so much pain, even on the pain killers. I believe his kidneys were already shutting down, he had been drinking a lot of water the night before but only urinated once, it was very dark and foul, and very little. He wouldn't eat, even when I tried to give him turkey, which he's never allowed, and ice cubes, which he loves. He could barely life his head up and never wagged his tail. By the time my husband got home and took him to the vet, they had to make the decision to put him down. The vet agreed that there was nothing that could be done for him and his condition had worsened too quickly. The vet had said he didn't think the blood tests were necessary, and believed it was a spinal issue, though now we'll never know. We're all completely heart broken.

August 25 MY REPLY
Hi. I copied your description of what happened to the Golden Retriever Breeders Discussion Group and in addition to many condolences for you, here is a link to what all who had an opinion said:
PetMD Mobile - Dog Health Article

August 25 MY REPLY
Tonka's breeder wanted me to pass this on to you: So sorry to hear of such a horrible thing. Please send them my condolences.

August 25 MY REPLY
From a Hope/Tonka puppy owner in Canada: I can't imagine how the owners must be feeling. My heart goes out to them.

August 25 MY REPLY
From a breeder in SoCal: So sorry. It's terrible when they can't figure out what to do in time.

August 25 MY REPLY
From a breeder/exhibitor friend in AZ: I am so sorry Judy. My heart goes out to the family.

August 25 MY REPLY
Just wanted to let you know you aren't alone in your pain. Please let me know when you might want another puppy. Although I don't think this is genetic at all, you are a great family. And I would be honored if you allow me to provide another puppy to you.

August 26 JESSICA
Hi Judy, Thank you for your kind words and generous offer. I can't help but feel extreme guilt thinking if he had been bitten by a black widow, we should have insisted on a blood test as soon as we had taken him into the vet. I know its pointless now, but its definitely proven to be a life lesson. As an inexperienced pet owner, I'm just hoping that in the future we won't make the same mistake again. As far as getting another puppy, we might be more open to the idea in a year or two, but right now we are emotionally not ready as we are still reeling from our loss. Its crazy how you can love a dog so much in such a short amount of time! But I do truly appreciate it and hope that the offer might still stand in the future. Thank you for everything.

August 26 MY REPLY
(((((HUGS)))))

August 26 MY REPLY
Hi. I just wanted to tell you DO NOT blame yourself! These things happen sometimes. We can't keep our children or pets in a bubble. ?
Sometimes bad things happen and it's no ones fault. Please don't bear yourself up. It could have happened to anyone. I'm so sorry it happened to you. And we don't know for sure what caused it. But the info on the spider sure sounds like it. ?
Let me know when you are ready.
-------------------------------------------------

That is the last I have heard from Jessica, and I did not receive any emails from you Tom... 

@-}-- Judy in CA
Promise Kennels
AKC BREEDER OF MERIT
www.promisekennels.com




tomheadland said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I bought my golden retriever, Edgar, from Promise Kennels in September 2011. I bought Edgar as a present to my wife and daughter, who was two and a half at the time. Of course, we immediately fell in love with Edgar. He was a beautiful dog and REALLY smart. Also, my wife and I did not have to worry AT ALL with his behavior around our daughter. He was completely docile and gentle around her.
> So, fast forward 11 months later. This is less then one year into Edgar's life. My wife notices that he is limping on one of his hind legs. I think that he maybe layed on it wrong and it fell asleep. So, I tell her not to worry about it and we'll just wait it out. The NEXT day, he can barely walk so I decide to rush him to the vet. The vet tells he that his lower spine is causing him so much pain, he had to be sedated for an x-ray. Edgar almost bit the vet during the check-up because it was so painful. Now I know something is wrong. Edgar was the most non-aggressive dog I'd ever known. So, the vet takes an x-ray (doesn't find anything), gives us some muscle relaxant and pain relievers and sends us out the door. He said that if it gets worse after one week, we should get an MRI because the problem might be neurological. The vet opined that it could be a spinal degenerative disease because Edgar is a pure blonde-haired golden retriever. Even though spinal degenerative diseases are extremely rare, they do show up in pure goldens and the blonde-haired goldens are an even more rare breed. Therefore, the vet has seen this disease in dogs like Edgar.
> ...


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

tomheadland- So sorry to hear of your loss. Welcome to the group. Things will get better.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I am very sorry for your loss. It is so difficult to lose a pet, and even more so when so very young.


I am also sorry that I cannot get past the part where your vet "opined that it could be a spinal degenerative disease because Edgar is a pure blonde-haired golden retriever. Even though spinal degenerative diseases are extremely rare, they do show up in pure goldens and the blonde-haired goldens are an even more rare breed. Therefore, the vet has seen this disease in dogs like Edgar." This is, quite frankly, ignorant. "Blond-haired goldens" are NOT a "rare breed". Period. 
I'd be looking for a new vet.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

My heart goes out to you, Tom and Jessica, for the profound loss of your Edgar. I am sure your pain has caused you to lash out with angry words.

I have known Judy for several years after getting my wonderful Baxter from her. She has shown amazing support and integrity throughout my association with her even with my many questions. Judy cares greatly about not only her dogs but also the people who have been blessed with one of her pups. 
I met Judy at a show with several of her beautiful dogs where she graciously shared her time and love for her Goldens. She even allowed me to spend the day with her while I met and asked a million questions about one of her dogs who later became my much loved and amazing Baxter.

I am so sorry your dear Golden boy became so ill at such a young age and I know you must be hurting terribly but please know that Judy cares too. The Judy that I know would be hurting as if this was her own pup for at one time she guided Edgar into your loving arms.

Again, my heart goes out to you at this most difficult time...
Peace to your heart...


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

So sorry for your loss of Edgar but you don't even know what he died of, so how can you blame the breeder? Clearly it was a freak thing that happened. Why would the breeder be responsible? 
The whole spinal degeneration in "blonde haired golden retrievers" is a bunch of baloney. 
Sorry you went through this but I think your anger is mis-directed.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

I am so sorry for your loss and I can understand your grief, but your anger is misplaced on this breeder who, from the looks of it, is very caring and willing to work with you. I would have no problem recommending her to someone, she seems like a class act.


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## vleffingwell (Jan 12, 2011)

Don't forget that hip xrays are subject to error and it is not a guarantee against hip problems in the future. Some dogs with poor hips never develop dysplasia and there are also some with excellent that have. I always do checks anyway but it is not 100% sadly.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

tomheadland said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I bought my golden retriever, Edgar, from Promise Kennels in September 2011. I bought Edgar as a present to my wife and daughter, who was two and a half at the time. Of course, we immediately fell in love with Edgar. He was a beautiful dog and REALLY smart. Also, my wife and I did not have to worry AT ALL with his behavior around our daughter. He was completely docile and gentle around her.
> So, fast forward 11 months later. This is less then one year into Edgar's life. My wife notices that he is limping on one of his hind legs. I think that he maybe layed on it wrong and it fell asleep. So, I tell her not to worry about it and we'll just wait it out. The NEXT day, he can barely walk so I decide to rush him to the vet. The vet tells he that his lower spine is causing him so much pain, he had to be sedated for an x-ray. Edgar almost bit the vet during the check-up because it was so painful. Now I know something is wrong. Edgar was the most non-aggressive dog I'd ever known. So, the vet takes an x-ray (doesn't find anything), gives us some muscle relaxant and pain relievers and sends us out the door. He said that if it gets worse after one week, we should get an MRI because the problem might be neurological. The vet opined that it could be a spinal degenerative disease because Edgar is a pure blonde-haired golden retriever. Even though spinal degenerative diseases are extremely rare, they do show up in pure goldens and the blonde-haired goldens are an even more rare breed. Therefore, the vet has seen this disease in dogs like Edgar.
> ...


I am so sorry this happened to you. Edgar's father Tonka was bred by my breeder.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Very sorry for your loss. However, unless you did a necropsy, the real cause of death will never be known. It stinks to lose a dog so young....


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

Oh man! So very sorry for your loss . We all need to know that no dog is exempt from illnesses regardless of the breeder. Sending prayers your way.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

I am so sorry for the loss of your beloved Golden. It must be so hard to lose him so young and so suddenly.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I am so sorry for the pain you are feeling, the loss is unthinkable. I wish you could have known what was wrong, it's so terrible to lose them when you don't know why.


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## LDBgolden (Jan 1, 2015)

DNL2448 said:


> I am so sorry for your loss and I can understand your grief, but your anger is misplaced on this breeder who, from the looks of it, is very caring and willing to work with you. I would have no problem recommending her to someone, she seems like a class act.


She IS a class act! I have a Promise pup and it was the best decision of my life. Judy's email conversation sounds just like her: caring, sympathetic, eager to help, supportive of a Promise family. Once you're in the Promise family, you feel it.

I am very sad for this family and understand their sadness, but I couldnt leave a comment with so much misdirected anger on here without responding. I wouldn't want a potential new Promise family member to be scared away for something that was out of the breeders control. From the looks of it, she was incredibly supportive in every way possible.


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