# Seger Has Us All Baffled - long post



## Oakley&SegersMom (Feb 1, 2009)

I have written on this forum about Seger's longstanding weakness and spasticity in his hind legs. We have been to the Ontario Vet College in Guelph where an MRI came back negative. We thought it might be spinal nerve compression. So that issue remains undiagnosed. 
About 3 months ago we noticed Seger starting to lose weight, and his eyes seemed to have a sunken appearance. He also started panting non-stop except when he was at rest. His coat wasn't as soft and full as usual, and he has this compulsion to grab huge chunks of grass and dirt and scoff them down, almost in a panicked way. We had his thyroid checked as he is on meds for hypothyroidism. Vet says levels are fine. Also did a full blood panel and except for one slightly elevated liver enzyme, everything is good. Seger has also become less tolerant of longer distance walks - currently we do about 1/2 our usual distance with him and about 80% of the way you can see that he is faltering and having difficulty keeping up. We have increased his food amount and he has put on some weight so he looks better. We took him off all supplements as we thought perhaps we had an omega 3 and 6 imbalance going on. He is now back on his Grizzly Salmon Oil, Actistatin for his hips, and BiologicVet MultiVites daily. His coat has improved a lot but we are not sure what we can attribute that improvement to. While off his supplements we did a 2 week trial of Rimadyl to see if perhaps the panting was due to pain - but we noticed no difference. He drinks and pees a lot but I know this is a side effect of Actistatin so not to worried about that. We have tried a natural calming med thinking it was nervousness due to age - he will be 9 in October. No effect. Last week we did xrays which showed an enlarged heart, but everything else looked good. Major blood vessels, lungs, spleen, liver etc all look normal. 
So after all this we are no closer to determining what is going on with him. The panting non-stop, the weakness and loss of tolerance for exercise and the grass/dirt eating continue. He is seen monthly by a canine chiroprator who says his alignment is very good. I know our vet thought she might find a tumor on xray but that didn't happen thank goodness. Now she has posted his xrays to an online vet network for specialists to view and comment, hoping someone will have an idea. Next step may be an EKG. 
We were discussing whether this might be symptomatic of aging. Who knows.
I am posting here to see if anyone has any ideas. I feel like we are missing something that potentially could be treatable. Seger seems relatively happy, loves to go anywhere even though it takes a toll on him, loves to run after the bunnies, swim, play with his balls, wrestle with Oakley, enjoys his food etc. But this non-stop panting and loss of stamina has us baffled.
Any ideas appreciated. 
Carol


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

WOW it seems like you have done just about everything to figure out what ailment is bothering Seger. The only other thing I could think of is has he been seen by a cardiologist and had an echo done? It sounds like it could be heart related especially with the panting and enlarged heart. How old is your pup?
I hope you can figure this out soon and help Seger. Thinking positive thoughts for a resolution to this problem.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

That's what I was thinking. Sounds like before MY heart stuff was diagnosed. Or maybe diabetes? I know in people not all symptoms are present in every case.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Do the blood tests show any signs of anemia? Has he been tested for a wide spectrum of tick borne illnesses? I agree with going to see a cardiologist. I know when my Dexy was ill, he had what appeared to be an enlarged heart, but it was blood in the pericardium ( the lining around the heart) which they drained. He likely had a tumor in the heart which was causing the bleed but the cardiologist could not see it in an ultrasound. I also know of a Golden who had bleeding into the pericardium at about 8 1/2 years. They thought it was hemangio, and they would lose him, but after draining the blood he got better for a year. The bleeding happened again and he was diagnosed with an infection of the pericardium, the pericardium was removed and he is still going strong, doing agility and siring litters at 13 years.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Carol*

Carol

So sorry that Seger is having these problems, but nothing is definitive.
Did they do a chest x-ray? stomach x-ray?
Is he anemic at all?


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## BajaOklahoma (Sep 27, 2009)

An enlarged heart is reason to see a cardiologist ASAP. Take the X-rays with you. The echo is a great idea. An inefficient heart pushes less oxygen and nutrients through the body.

Did the blood work include a blood sugar?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

okay, this is totally bizarre but as I was reading your post I was thinking, "OMG that sounds EXACTLY like the auto-immune muscle disease I have!!!"
So I googled it, and it turns out dogs do, in fact, get polymyositis.
Here it is in the Merck Vet Manual:
_".....Polymyositis is a systemic, noninfectious, possibly immune-mediated, inflammatory muscle disorder in adult dogs. It may be acute or chronic and progressive. Clinical signs include depression, lethargy, weakness, weight loss, lameness, myalgia, and muscle atrophy. CK may be increased, and electromyography reveals abnormal spontaneous muscle activity. Muscle biopsy reveals myonecrosis, lymphocytic-plasmacytic perimuscular infiltration, phagocytosis, and fiber regeneration. Polymyositis may be associated with megaesophagus and immune-mediated disorders (myasthenia gravis, lupus erythematosus, polyarthritis). Oral corticosteroids (1-2 mg/kg, bid for 3-4 wk) are the treatment of choice; other immunosuppressive agents such as azathioprine or cyclophosphamide can also be used. Prognosis is favorable, although relapses are not uncommon...."_
Merck Veterinary Manual
Some other websites even mentioned the "sunken" appearance of the face, and google images show it.
Might be something to pursue.


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

I was thinking the heart may be playing a bigger role then you may think. I would get that worked up fully. Is his belly looking swollen? I would worry that he may be leaking fluid into his abdomen and making him pant. How is the color of his gums? He may need to get on some heart meds as well as some fluid pills. I would get it worked up sooner rather than later. Good luck!


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

I am so sorry that Seger is giving you such a scare. It is frustrating not to know after all the testing you've done. I hope the ideas you've received here this morning help. I don't have anything else, just wanted to give you my support. 

I also want to say once again how much I appreciate this forum and all of you who devote time here. You all are amazing. This thread started on a Sunday morning and in less than two hours you've had several caring and truly useful responses and hopefully you feel a little less alone. I've learned some new things this morning. Every single one of the responses was thoughtful and helpful. The people on this forum are truly a blessing. 

Please keep us posted on what you do next, I'll be thinking of you and Seger.


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## goldilover2650 (Jun 14, 2012)

Agree with other posters, an enlarged heart is reason to go to a cardiologist for further testing. It cannot be reversed but there are many things that can be done so it doesn't get worse. 

Good luck and please keep us posted


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## Oakley&SegersMom (Feb 1, 2009)

*Thank You BayBeams*



BayBeams said:


> WOW it seems like you have done just about everything to figure out what ailment is bothering Seger. The only other thing I could think of is has he been seen by a cardiologist and had an echo done? It sounds like it could be heart related especially with the panting and enlarged heart. How old is your pup?
> I hope you can figure this out soon and help Seger. Thinking positive thoughts for a resolution to this problem.


Thank you for the kind words. We have not yet seen a cardiologist - we are in Northern Ontario and the nearest center is a good 8 hour drive; however our vet is hoping a Cardiologist will comment on Seger's xrays which she has posted on an online Vet network. I will make the trip in a heartbeat once a referral has been made and we have been accepted. One of the drawbacks of living far from an urban center .
Seger is 8 years old, turning 9 in October. 
Thank you again and I will keep you posted.
Carol


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## Oakley&SegersMom (Feb 1, 2009)

*Thank You Penny's Mom*



Penny's Mom said:


> That's what I was thinking. Sounds like before MY heart stuff was diagnosed. Or maybe diabetes? I know in people not all symptoms are present in every case.


I am honestly not sure if a blood sugar level was drawn but I will ask. Thank you for suggesting that. Seger's lab work was done around noon so the sugar, if drawn, would have been a random sample. I will inquire about doing a fasting sugar
Thank you!
Carol


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## Oakley&SegersMom (Feb 1, 2009)

*Thank You Selli-Belle*



Selli-Belle said:


> Do the blood tests show any signs of anemia? Has he been tested for a wide spectrum of tick borne illnesses? I agree with going to see a cardiologist. I know when my Dexy was ill, he had what appeared to be an enlarged heart, but it was blood in the pericardium ( the lining around the heart) which they drained. He likely had a tumor in the heart which was causing the bleed but the cardiologist could not see it in an ultrasound. I also know of a Golden who had bleeding into the pericardium at about 8 1/2 years. They thought it was hemangio, and they would lose him, but after draining the blood he got better for a year. The bleeding happened again and he was diagnosed with an infection of the pericardium, the pericardium was removed and he is still going strong, doing agility and siring litters at 13 years.


Apparently his blood levels were all good so no indication of anemia. Gums are pink. I learned about that on this forum and have been checking Seger's gums daily! Thank you for telling me about Dexy - I will definitely share this information with my vet. This is very helpful - I appreciate your response. Your suggestion about tick related illnesses is interesting - we have not historically had ticks in our area but I read somewhere that they are making their way here - I will ask about that!
Carol


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## Oakley&SegersMom (Feb 1, 2009)

*Thank You Karen519*



Karen519 said:


> Carol
> 
> So sorry that Seger is having these problems, but nothing is definitive.
> Did they do a chest x-ray? stomach x-ray?
> Is he anemic at all?


Thank you for your response. Seger did have an xray which alowed the vet to see from his airway right down to the end of his spine. Everything seemed fine except for the enlarged heart. His gums are pink and his blood work all came back normal so I am quite sure he is not anemic.
Thanks!
Carol


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## Oakley&SegersMom (Feb 1, 2009)

*Thank You BajaOklahoma*



BajaOklahoma said:


> An enlarged heart is reason to see a cardiologist ASAP. Take the X-rays with you. The echo is a great idea. An inefficient heart pushes less oxygen and nutrients through the body.
> 
> Did the blood work include a blood sugar?


 
It sure is starting to sound like a cardiologist is in our near future. I will definitely discuss this with our vet Monday. I am not sure if a blood sugar was drawn but I will also ask that question when I call Carla tomorrow.
Thanks for your suggestions!
Carol


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## Oakley&SegersMom (Feb 1, 2009)

*Thank You Hotel4Dogs*



hotel4dogs said:


> okay, this is totally bizarre but as I was reading your post I was thinking, "OMG that sounds EXACTLY like the auto-immune muscle disease I have!!!"
> So I googled it, and it turns out dogs do, in fact, get polymyositis.
> Here it is in the Merck Vet Manual:
> _".....Polymyositis is a systemic, noninfectious, possibly immune-mediated, inflammatory muscle disorder in adult dogs. It may be acute or chronic and progressive. Clinical signs include depression, lethargy, weakness, weight loss, lameness, myalgia, and muscle atrophy. CK may be increased, and electromyography reveals abnormal spontaneous muscle activity. Muscle biopsy reveals myonecrosis, lymphocytic-plasmacytic perimuscular infiltration, phagocytosis, and fiber regeneration. Polymyositis may be associated with megaesophagus and immune-mediated disorders (myasthenia gravis, lupus erythematosus, polyarthritis). Oral corticosteroids (1-2 mg/kg, bid for 3-4 wk) are the treatment of choice; other immunosuppressive agents such as azathioprine or cyclophosphamide can also be used. Prognosis is favorable, although relapses are not uncommon...."_
> ...


Your response is really appreciated!! I have never heard of this disorder and am going to copy/paste your response to my vet in an email today! Definitely worth pursuing. Thank you thank you!!
Carol


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## Oakley&SegersMom (Feb 1, 2009)

*Thank You OnMyWay2MyDreams*



OnMyWay2MyDreams said:


> I was thinking the heart may be playing a bigger role then you may think. I would get that worked up fully. Is his belly looking swollen? I would worry that he may be leaking fluid into his abdomen and making him pant. How is the color of his gums? He may need to get on some heart meds as well as some fluid pills. I would get it worked up sooner rather than later. Good luck!


Based on the responses I have received I too am thinking the heart may well be the issue. I have been watching Seger's belly and honestly one day I did comment to DH that it looked "rounder" ; but we have increased his food intake because he was losing weight, so I attributed it to the weight gain we have achieved. The xray showed his belly and all seemed well though. His gums are pink - I have been checking them daily too. I am so obsessed with this I read into everything he does.
Thank you for the kind words!
Carol


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I think Barb's idea is worth pursuing, but I also think a heart ultrasound and echocardiogram is a must as well. My Toby experienced many of the same symptoms you described (with the exception of the elevated liver enzymes and back end weakness). We did a combination ultrasound of his abdomen and an echocardiogram and that's when we discovered his mitral valve degeneration. We also found an enlarged lymph node in his abdomen, aspirated it and results were inconclusive. We monitored it every six months for changes, and finally got the all clear from the cardiologist to go to an annual monitoring situation. In the meantime he developed a small spleen nodule, which now requires ultrasound every few months to monitor change and growth.  I find that he is more exercise intolerant in the warmer months, especially when the humidity is high, so I simply limit his exercise during those times. He also does the grass eating (his favorite though is hackberry leaf grabbing) and is hypothyroid, with some variations in his levels depending on the season--uncommon in dogs BTW, but sometimes seen in cats. Do you have his thyroid rechecked periodically? 

Good luck, I hope you get answers. I empathize with how frustrating you feel about this. It's so hard to not know exactly what is going on.


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## Oakley&SegersMom (Feb 1, 2009)

*Thank you NoleFan*



nolefan said:


> I am so sorry that Seger is giving you such a scare. It is frustrating not to know after all the testing you've done. I hope the ideas you've received here this morning help. I don't have anything else, just wanted to give you my support.
> 
> I also want to say once again how much I appreciate this forum and all of you who devote time here. You all are amazing. This thread started on a Sunday morning and in less than two hours you've had several caring and truly useful responses and hopefully you feel a little less alone. I've learned some new things this morning. Every single one of the responses was thoughtful and helpful. The people on this forum are truly a blessing.
> 
> Please keep us posted on what you do next, I'll be thinking of you and Seger.


I want to echo your comment re this site! I am overwhelmed at the responses and all so quickly and with lots of detail. I have made notes and will be putting together an email to my vet this afternoon so we can talk about each of the suggestions tomorrow. It defintely is an empty feeling being unable to pinpoint the cause. I just want Seger to feel better. I am feeling more confident that at least we have a number of avenues to pursue. 
Thank you for your kind words!
Carol


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## Oakley&SegersMom (Feb 1, 2009)

*Thank You Goldilover*



goldilover2650 said:


> Agree with other posters, an enlarged heart is reason to go to a cardiologist for further testing. It cannot be reversed but there are many things that can be done so it doesn't get worse.
> 
> Good luck and please keep us posted


I do hope we get to the bottom of this and we can get Seger on some meds to address his issues. He is otherwise so happy and enthusiastic, I feel like we are wasting precious time trying to figure it out! Hopefully with all of the suggestions made today we will more quickly get to the bottom of this!
Thank you
Carol


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## *Laura* (Dec 13, 2011)

Carol. .... Seger is very lucky to have you for a Mom. (I also am continually amazed as I read through these threads how responsive and helpful everyone is on this forum. The helpful and numerous suggestions never fail to amaze me). Good luck with your search for answers.


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

My KayCee had an enlarged heaart chamber. She never had anyof the signs your dog is displaying, and we were rather stunned when it showed on X-ray. I had had the chest x-ray done as part of her pysical when she was going on 89. Only treatment my vet gave her was one blood pressure tab a day--same as hubby takes only 1/4 the strength of his (and his aren't that strong) and a baby aprin every other day.

KayCee's heart never seemed to casue her any problems at all. I did lose her to cancer at 8 yrs. 9 moths.

I asure hope you can get to the bottom of the trouble with you baby. It is easy to see that you are doing everything in your power. Hugs to you and belly rubs to your baby.

PS Hoping it turns out to be jut some simple thing that can be corrected easily.


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

Saw your first post yesterday and admit it scared me. Was going to recommend a cardiologist asap but know you didn't exactly have one next door. I hope with all my heart Seger gets through this.

I have an x-ray I could post of an enlarged heart with Tucker (after a lung collapse, resting on the sternum) if anyone is interested. After x-ray too once a thoracentesis was done of what a "normal" heart should look like.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Seger*

PRAYING for Seger and you!!
Glad everything looked o.k. lung wise and that he's not anemic!


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Gosh it is so hard when you live so far from the specialty vet. I hope it turns out to be something with an easy resolution.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Hope everything is OK. Sounds like it could be the heart.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Seger*

Praying for Seger!!


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## Oakley&SegersMom (Feb 1, 2009)

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and kind words of support. Seger has had so many issues almost since day one, but we have either dealt with them, worked around them, or accommodated him, and essentially modified our life style to ensure he was happy and loved! He is just the most loving dog, and it breaks our hearts to see him like this. I did send all of the suggestions to our vet and she is reviewing it all as well as waiting for the specialist to review the xrays. Hoping we have a plan soon. Will keep you posted. Carol


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Carol*

Carol

There is no doubt in my mind that Seger is a very lucky boy having you for parents and we know how loved he is. Praying they determine what to do that can help him!!


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## Oakley&SegersMom (Feb 1, 2009)

Well we think we have a diagnosis! The cardiologist looked at the xrays and said that the heart did not look too large for a large breed dog of Seger's size. So that is good news. He also said that heart problems do not generally cause a lot of panting. 
The suggestion is that Seger has laryngeal paresis - or weakening of the larynx, apparently common in retrievers and other large breed dogs. I had heard of it but assumed that it would cause more noisy breathing, which Seger does not have. But now that I have read up on it, Seger has the classic symptoms! 
I copy/pasted this from one of the articles I read. Seger has a number of these symptoms:

Apparent burping w/ rapid swallowing and smacking lips - we attributed Seger's "burping" to eating grass and dirt. But he does smack his lips - I never thought to describe it that way before but that is it!​
“Burping up” liquids when walking around (no active vomiting motion) - yes he does this - most recent yesterday on my newly cleaned carpet!​
Regurgitating undigested food in large amounts (no active vomiting motion) - no he has never done this that we know of​
Restless sleep pattern; awakens and pants or paces (suggesting true “heartburn” symptoms) - yes every night​
panting even at rest - yes​
intolerance for exercise - yes - the article even said often owners attribute it to the dog getting older, which I did!​
panicked look on his face and in his eyes - yes - especially when we walk I feel he is looking up at me saying "something is wrong please help me" ​
intolerance for the heat - this summer has been unusually hot here and we just attributed Seger's behavior to normal heat intolerance - but Oakley manages fine.​
They talk about the cause being idiopathic (just happens) or due to injury. Seger does see a chiropractor monthly for his toe dragging and the last 4-5 months he has fond Seger's neck to be stiff and has been manipulating it. One day John said he heard it crack. I am guessing Seger's neck is stiff from stress and wonder if the adjustment has done some damage. I totally trust the chiro though so am leaning more towards idiopathic.

One of the articles said to avoid collars for walking and use a harness because the collar puts added stress on the larynx. That may explain the look in Seger's eyes when we walk, and a couple of times it has seemed like he wants to lie down in the middle of a walk. We walk him with a martingale collar.

I am going to do some more reading but so far this describes Seger to a tee. Carla (our vet) is waiting for one more response from a behaviorist (thinking this might be behavioral but I don't think so) and then we will decide what to do. I haven't read enough yet to determine treatment - there were suggestions of surgery if there is actual laryngeal paralysis but Seger does not have symptoms to that extreme. I think I read anti-anxiety, relaxation meds.

Anyway at least we are closer than we were 2 days ago and I am hopeful we will be able to treat this.

If anyone has had experience with laryngeal paresis I would love to hear from you! This forum has been so helpful!
Carol​


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## BajaOklahoma (Sep 27, 2009)

I'm glad the cardiologist looked at the X-rays.
And I am so glad it looks to be treatable. You've added to my store on knowledge too!
You're doing a great job of managing his healthcare! And teaching us.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I'm glad you have a possible diagnosis for Seger. I'm not too familiar with what you describe. 

After our guy's cataract removal surgery, his ophthalmologist prescribed harness walking because walking using a flat collar and leash puts undue stress on a dog's eyes, so I can see how it would also directly affect the larynx. We had already started walking him with a harness before the surgery so it wasn't a problem for us.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Glad to hear there may be an answer. 
When a dog in our rescue had this they taught the dog to eat in an upright posititon with paws up on a stool so as to be on an incline. I don't know much about it other than the dog was adopted to a loving family.
Wishing you the best.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm glad to hear you might finally have a diagnosis!
If you want information on laryngeal paralysis, you should probably join a labrador retriever forum. Sadly, it's pretty common in labs.


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## vrmueller (Jun 14, 2008)

This is very interesting. Did the dr. do any specific testing or was it just a list of symptoms? Ruby has been exhibiting some of those you have listed. The biggest one is the dropping down on her walks. I also use a martingale. She has always been a puller. The panting & lip licking, too. I honestly thought that my hyper, always wants to run girl was becoming an old woman. She is just shy of 5 years. Is the answer just switching to a harness or do I need to take her for an exam?


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## Oakley&SegersMom (Feb 1, 2009)

*Response to vrmeuller*



vrmueller said:


> This is very interesting. Did the dr. do any specific testing or was it just a list of symptoms? Ruby has been exhibiting some of those you have listed. The biggest one is the dropping down on her walks. I also use a martingale. She has always been a puller. The panting & lip licking, too. I honestly thought that my hyper, always wants to run girl was becoming an old woman. She is just shy of 5 years. Is the answer just switching to a harness or do I need to take her for an exam?


 
We are still waiting final word from our vet regarding nextsteps, but what she has mentioned is that Seger would have a *laryngoscopy* under light anesthetic to confirm the diagnosis. 
We started with a chest xray to ensure that heart and lungs were normal. One thing lead to another and a cardiologist suggested this diagnosis.
Seger is a puller too on his walks (getting better with age I must say), but the most noticeable to us was the constant panting, even at rest, the lip smacking and the lack of stamina on walks. 
Seger is almost 9 so we initially attributed much of it to getting old 
Maybe give a halter a try - I really hope Ruby does not have this condition. It seems to really frighten Seger - you can tell by the look he gets in his eyes and how he looks up at us on walks particularly.
If Ruby does not respond favorably to the halter then definitely discuss this with your vet. Our vet didn't think of laryngeal paresis because Seger does not have noisy breathing but apparently that is not always present. 
Good luck. Keep in touch if you do pursue this with your vet - if it turns out both Seger and Ruby have this condition (hoping not of course) we can support and learn from one another.
Carol


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## jealous1 (Dec 7, 2007)

Carol - I have been following this thread on Segar and am glad to hear you may have a definitive diagnosis. Just FYI, I found this on another thread as I was perusing:

*Our Rhett began to have similar problems with the hind legs and also the laryngeal paralysis which caused him to sometimes seem like he was breathing through a straw with minor exertion. They diagnosed it as GOLPP, or Geriatric Onset Laryngeal Paralysis Polyneuropathy, lots of information on this on the web. It's a neurological degradation of a major nerve in older larger dogs. Tie-back surgery may be an option you may want to consider to help him breath better or just keep him quiet and cool with minimal exercise. Age is not a factor on the surgery as it has been done on older dogs quite successfully. Rhett had the condition for about 3 years before we had to start helping him get up from laying down and we were able to manage his condition very well otherwise.*


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## vrmueller (Jun 14, 2008)

Carol, thanks for all of the info. I have dealt with so many health issues with Ruby since she was a pup. The one thing that was never a problem was her energy level. Daily walk & runs were a must to keep her in check. So, this odd behavior of plopping down & not budging had me really worried. I was afraid I was going to have to carry her home. During some evenings when we are watching tv, I see her panting & looking at us like there is something wrong. I thought maybe it was the Temaril-P she has been on. Today, I used the harness & no problem with plopping down. She is also not a heavy breather & doesn't wheeze. I will monitor her over the next month & see if the harness makes a difference. Please keep us updated on Seger. It's horrible when they can't tell us what's wrong. Take care.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Carol*



Oakley&SegersMom said:


> Well we think we have a diagnosis! The cardiologist looked at the xrays and said that the heart did not look too large for a large breed dog of Seger's size. So that is good news. He also said that heart problems do not generally cause a lot of panting.
> The suggestion is that Seger has laryngeal paresis - or weakening of the larynx, apparently common in retrievers and other large breed dogs. I had heard of it but assumed that it would cause more noisy breathing, which Seger does not have. But now that I have read up on it, Seger has the classic symptoms!
> I copy/pasted this from one of the articles I read. Seger has a number of these symptoms:
> 
> ...


Carol: Glad to hear that you are getting closer to a diagnosis. I would try a harness instead of the martingale collar. My Smooch, who is now at the Rainbow Bridge had some of these symptoms and I had never heard of laryngeal paresis.


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## Oakley&SegersMom (Feb 1, 2009)

jealous1 - thank you for posting that thread. I will definitely research this diagnosis. 
Carol


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## Oakley&SegersMom (Feb 1, 2009)

Thanks for all the suggestions and kind words of support. Seger is scheduled for his laryngoscopy Tuesday morning at 8:45. Hopefully we will have a definitive diagnosis. If it is negative, our vet would like Seger to have an abd ultrasound because we will be back to the hemangio possibility. Hoping I don't have to go down that road - for now one step at a time!
Carol


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Good luck with the procedure., hope ou get answers! Keep us updated as you can!


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Thinking about you.....


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## vrmueller (Jun 14, 2008)

Hope Seger does well on Tuesday. You both will be in my thoughts for the best possible outcome. Keep us posted.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Good wishes for the procedure and recovery.


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## goldilover2650 (Jun 14, 2012)

Good luck with the procedure....hoping for best possible outcome for Seger


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Seger*

I will be praying for Seger and you.


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## vrmueller (Jun 14, 2008)

Oakley&SegersMom said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions and kind words of support. Seger is scheduled for his laryngoscopy Tuesday morning at 8:45. Hopefully we will have a definitive diagnosis. If it is negative, our vet would like Seger to have an abd ultrasound because we will be back to the hemangio possibility. Hoping I don't have to go down that road - for now one step at a time!
> Carol


Hi Carol, Any news?


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## Oakley&SegersMom (Feb 1, 2009)

Thank you everyone, and for asking vrmueller! Unfortunately we arrived with Seger (after enduring 2 hours of "the look" because Seger could not eat breakfast!) only to find that one of the meds that the vet was going to use had expired and she was not comfortable using it. She had asked her tech to ensure the set up was ready to go first thing Tuesday (after a long Civic holiday weekend) and the tech did not check this one med. We were all very disappointed, but are rescheduled for Friday morning at 8:30! Another day with no breakfast  I will definitely post the results here!
Carol


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Oh no, that stinks. I'm sorry to hear it got postponed. I know all too well, the fasting hungry dog eyes and am sorry you must endure it again on Friday. I hope the procedure goes well and he's on the mend soon.


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## vrmueller (Jun 14, 2008)

Oh, "the look", will get you every time. What a pain in the you know what to have to go through all of this again. Hoping for the best on Friday and will check back for updates. Take care.


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## Oakley&SegersMom (Feb 1, 2009)

Well here it is Monday and we have not yet had Seger scoped . After more discussion with our vet we decided to take Seger out of town to be scoped. Our vet planned to do a visual exam while a vet 3 hours away can do an exam with a scope, light and camera. This way is obviously more advanced and we get the benefit of a more extensive examination as well as photographs in the event they do see something. Then there would be logged before and after pics if this became necessary. I am annoyed our vet did not clearly explain the method she was using - when she said scope I assumed light assisted and camera (I am familiar with this being the method with humans. . My fault too for not being very specific in my questions!
So DH is taking Seger on a road trip to Sudbury Wednesday morning. They will travel early am, scope is at 11:00 and then recovery and travel back home. 
Hopefully all goes well and we have some answers this week.
We took Oakley and Seger for a walk in the bush yesterday and a swim in the river near our cottage and Seger noticeably paced himself on the walk. Usually he is running all over the place but yesterday he stayed right beside DH and I. He had a blast retrieving rocks from the shallow area of the river. We got some really cute pictures of him with his entire head under water getting the rock. We love him so much in spite of the many issues we have had to deal with. DH and I were saying that we initially were only getting one puppy 9 years ago! Then the breeder asked if we wanted a 2nd and they paired Seger with Oakley, the runt! We believe this happened for a reason and we are so happy we were chosen to be Segers family!
Once again the support here has been appreciated and I am looking forward to posting something definitive later this week. Fingers crossed!
Carol


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## vrmueller (Jun 14, 2008)

I have been waiting for your update on the procedure. So sorry again for the delay. I'm happy to hear Seger had a great time doing what dogs love to do. Since your initial post, I have had Ruby on a harness and walking her early in the morning when it is cooler. We have not had any episodes of her dropping down, lip licking or the panting at night. You have no idea how thankful I am for telling us about Seger. I will keep Seger in my thoughts for Wednesday and hope that the procedure is a success and you finally get some answers.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

Thank you for the information on laryngeal paralysis (GOLPP as it seems to be called)
Brooks has had some somewhat similar puzzling sorts of things going on-he seems to swallow a lot when he lies down in the evenings (not sure if that is the same as the lip smacking), he eats really fast and on a few occasions has cried out and wheezed like something was in his throat (maybe the flap which is supposed to close off when eating wasn't?), he does lie down sometimes on walks (but is it he just wants to enjoy the spot?) and on three occasions over the past year he suddenly seemed to lose the use of a hind leg (but recovered within seconds)-so all you have described has me wondering.
I will be thinking of Seger on Wednesday.


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## Oakley&SegersMom (Feb 1, 2009)

So tomorrow is Seger's scope. Yesterday we received email from our vet who said that another radiology specialist had looked at Seger's xray and thought the lower trachea, closest to the heart, looked elevated, suggesting an enlarged heart. (although the cardiologist thought heart looked normal size). With this new information the vet tomorrow will also do more abdominal and chest xrays while Seger is sedated. Of course my mind is racing and thinking if Seger's heart is not enlarged then there must be something else causing the elevated trachea  I will be a wreck tomorrow until the tests are done. Generally DH and I both go to vet appointments but with this one being 4 hours away, we decided I would stay home with Oakley and the cat, and he would travel with Seger. It is going to be a looooong day! 
Carol


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

I wish you all the best to come back with good news.


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## Oakley&SegersMom (Feb 1, 2009)

Seger had his scope yesterday and returned from his road trip around dinner time, groggy but fine. He staggered around last night and fell asleep standing at his water dish but today back to his usual self. The vet clinic DH took him to was amazing, large, clean and most important very very kind to Seger. We received the report via email before DH even got home. 
So, the results. Seger has total paralysis of one side of his larynx. The vet explained to John that they gave a medication to make Seger pant rapidly while he was sedated. His airway looked like a "D" .... So imagine one side inflating normally and the other remaining straight and not expanding at all. Explains the air hunger and decreased tolerance for exercise - he is simply not moving air into his lungs effectively. The vet also viewed further down and noted that his heart does seem enlarged and is pushing up on the trachea - this will require further investigation to find out why the heart enlargement. 
Further chest and abdominal X-rays were done and have now been posted for the radiologist to interpret and comment. Once we have that information, we will sit down and discuss a plan. The vet did speak about the tie back procedure where the paralyzed side of his larynx is tied up to allow more effective airway passage. I definitely will do some research on this , but she was very optimistic that it is usually successful. 
She also commented that this paralysis, or GOLPP, is often seen in dogs with hypothyroidism, which Seger does have. it also presents as weakness in the hind legs which Seger also suffers from. I don't have the expertise to understand how everything is connected but it definitely represents Seger very well.
So that is it in a nutshell. Will await X-ray results and go from there. Will keep you posted via this thread as we make progress with his treatment plan.
Again thanks for the interest and support. If anyone has other information I would really appreciate it. My research begins now 
Carol


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm glad you have some answers, I so wish it was a magic bullet to make him better. But really good to hear the vet thinks there is something that can be done. I hope the xray reports are really informative and helpful.


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## vrmueller (Jun 14, 2008)

Thanks for the update Carol. I am glad Seger is home and you do have some results. Let us know what the outcome is regarding his heart. Ruby also suffers from hypothyroid, in fact her dx is autoimmune thyroiditis. I would be interested to find out what other issues Seger has had to compare to her. She has had health issues since she was a pup. Hope he is feeling good today.


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

Thanks for the update. Knowing is always better then unknowing. Hope you are able to develop good plan of action with your vets and help your boy. Adding Seger to my prayers list.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

It sounds like this is a good step toward developing a treatment plan.
Wishing you the best!


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## Nomes (Nov 7, 2011)

I'm glad that you have some ideas of what is going on...i'm hoping for a good radiologist's report!
Give Seger a smooch from me...sounds like such a nice guy!


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## BajaOklahoma (Sep 27, 2009)

I'm glad you now something to work on - waiting and not knowing is worse.

Question - if they do the tieback procedure, are there any dietary changes, including liquids? The larynx usually closes during eating/drinking, which won't be possible on that side. Special position after eating - eg head up, not laying on his side for x amount of time to decrease reflux.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Thank you for the update, I've been wondering how Seger was doing. I hope having some answers and a plan will make you feel a little less afraid and a little more empowered. I'm so sorry for all the worry you've been through. I hope you're able to get him some quality back pretty quickly. Fingers crossed for you all.


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## Oakley&SegersMom (Feb 1, 2009)

Just a bit of an update on Seger. Because we are not near a large treatment center our vet posts clinical findings, xrays etc on a veterinary network online for specialists to comment on. A cardiologist looked at Seger's chest xray and concurred that his heart looked enlarged and actually tipped forward a bit, causing pressure on his trachea. He suggested the tipping is due to the lungs not properly expanding and keeping the heart "in place". We are looking into places to take Seger for his tie back surgery and Echo. I emailed 2 of the largest centers in Ontario asking about this surgery - their annual volumes, success rates, rate of complications, length of stay and approximate cost barring complications. One responded in great detail to my questions. The other said they don't share this type of information with "the public" and only when I bring Seger there and they examine him would they have this conversation. The latter is the place my vet is leaning towards because she trained there. Although she does know the surgeon who responded from the other center and said he is amazing. So she has posed my questions to the "uncooperative" center and we will see what they respond. I am actually fine to go to either place but feel the need to have some concrete information about their service and success rates in order to make a somewhat informed decision. 
In the meantime we had quite a hot humid weekend plus thunder storms, which Seger is terrified of. So he was quite agitated and very short of breath - it was heart breaking to watch. I just want to get this corrected and let him be the happy fellow he truly is. 
One of the complications of the surgery is aspiration due to the larynx being open at all times. The one vet quoted a 25-50% chance of aspiration - generally treatable with antibiotics but can be fatal. Seger is an underwater rock retriever  so this will severely hamper this activity. What I have read suggests that post op we must have elevated feeding and drinking dishes, no swimming (but I understand dogs can learn to keep their heads above water - I an wondering if a life jacket at all times could assist with this), slow eating - gonna have to get Seger a "slow-me-down" dish like his brother Oakley already has  Otherwise he should be much more comfortable with his breathing. So will await feedback from the center via my vet and then we will get on with the referral. 
We all know it doesn't rain but pour - not only will we be dealing with Seger's surgery, but we just sold our house on the weekend and are moving to our lake home (close date Sept 27th) and I am starting a new contract so that always takes more attention at the beginning. September should be very very interesting 
Carol


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Glad there are treatment options for your boy. I hope everything turns out well. Have you posted pictures of him? If so missed them. Best wishes.


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Carol, I hope the tie-back surgery makes Seger much more comfortable. As for the swimming, it might be a thing of the past, especially since the water would likely be aspirated. Bummer for him, but safety comes first, I would think. The second vet wouldn't get my business with that attitude. How else are you supposed to make an informed decision?


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## pandamonium (Apr 18, 2012)

Carol... I have been reading with interest, all of the information about Seger... This may sound like a random question... But has he ever had any episodes of tachycardia?...when he has the panting episodes, does his heart race to he degree of SVT...? I am so moved by your love and dedication....


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## Oakley&SegersMom (Feb 1, 2009)

Thank you Whispered Memories - I really don't know if Seger gets tachy with the panting. I will try to check that out. He is doing better now that it is cooler outside. Yesterday was a very warm day but we had him in and out of the lake and he did great. The cool nights are a god send. 
Thank you for your kind words.
Carol


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## puppatoos (Jul 23, 2012)

My heart boy Ashton has been suspected of GOLPP... I never expected this, I thought my girl was the more likely one to have it because of her heavy panting. Ashton has a little slight wheeze when he pants, but not heavily. Vet says it's a very initial stage and will be corrected by surgery when the time comes. But he's 9 and it's a scary thought to put a senior through surgery. What should I be looking out for and how do I make him more comfortable?
I'm trying to look out for what you saw in Seger in Ashton, nothing so far, he still sounds like the same fellow, same bark, the only thing is he coughs after a drink and he drinks like a firehose. And the very light almost non audible wheezing when he breathes. Hope Seger's on the route to good recovery


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