# How much profit for new litter?



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

It's not all profit... if the bitch is titled, you have to figure that in too- and her original cost, and her clearances- all those would be divided by however many litters she has. 
Then the cost of a litter- just getting pregnant can be super expensive, progesterones run $80-200 depending on where you live, and you might need only 1 or you might need 10. And you might need an LH too. The stud fee. Shipping the semen in, that runs around $200 for FedEx. Getting the semen in her. That can cost from $100 for an AI to $1000 for a surgical breeding and lots between. You might do that twice. 
Bedding, a whelping box, dewormings for mama and babies at 2,4,,6,8 weeks. Way to tell them apart. Increased food for mama, food for babies. Things on hand- bag of fluids, a catheter, some formula, it goes on and on... Ex pens to let them play in, chips for the pens, a pen to put them in once they're out of the box. A piece of linoleum to cover your floor. A potty system- they can be super expensive depending on what method you use to keep them clean. 
Go home stuff- a litter of 8 can easily cost $75 in printing alone to do packages, registering the litter is $2 per plus I think $30 or so to AKC. Microchips- they cost about $8 each. Bags to put the stuff in. 
I am certain I left out a ton of things, but a litter is not really a huge moneymaker if you do it right- it helps pay for the careers of the dogs for sure but when things go wrong, and you have an emergency, then you are in the red really fast. I tell people who want to breed to have an extra $5k in the bank AFTER the clearances and getting her titled and pregnant. 

When you have 10 puppies people very easily imagine you're getting $25k .. that would be nice but it's not how it shakes out.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

My breeder says she has never turned a profit on a breeding. Even when she already has the one-time purchases like whelping box, ex-pens, etc. Getting a championship alone can run thousands of dollars.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Surprisingly little if you do everything you can to raise healthy, well socialized and cared for puppies. People hear the price of well bred puppies and think it's a great money maker, but I can tell you honestly it's not.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

It really depends on how strong or weak the breeder is ethically. If a breeder who is doing nothing well is comfortable misleading, exploitation given and overcharging pet homes to get $2500 for health risky puppies from an uneducated buyer, you can make a lot. There is no investment for those breeders. I don’t know how those type sleep at night but they are a dime a dozen. 

When done well, it is usually a losing proposition to breed a litter. I am on litter #3 and I am still in the red and have yet to get the next competition puppy I want for myself. That is one big reason finding a well bred puppy is enormously difficult.


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## cgott42 (May 15, 2012)

Thanks - so I guess it's more about getting the next champion then it is about the $ profit.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

cgott42 said:


> Thanks - so I guess it's more about getting the next champion then it is about the $ profit.


It is. That is the reason most hobby breeders begin breeding. Breeding isn't the hobby, it's a side effect of showing. 
Done poorly, I imagine one could make big bucks. There are certainly plenty of non-showing, non-clearing breeders who pop in here to defend their right to make puppies, someone should ask them. I think for those people, it's for sure about the $$.


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## kjengold (Jun 19, 2007)

There also is the higher than usual electric bill with all the extra laundry there is.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

kjengold said:


> There also is the higher than usual electric bill with all the extra laundry there is.


And water! Ours went up almost $100 a month.

OP, there's also a lot that responsible breeders might do for their puppies that profit driven breeders won't. For example, trips to the opthalmologist, cardiologist, chiropractor, etc. All the make sure their puppies have a good start.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Oh the laundry is crazy. I typically do three loads a day at a minimum (full loads) when I have puppies. No telling what the detergent, bleach, water, electric runs..


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

This opinion is from a consumer point of view. Anytime you put profits before the product you get an inferior product. It doesn't matter if it's food or vehicles or in this case puppies. After all this is a purchase, a living breathing soul but still a purchase.

McDonalds looks more at their bottom line and what you get is a mass produced meal that's more convenient than good. Have you ever tried a michelin star restaurant? Any meal that is prepared by a quality chef is so worth the cost.

Sadly many greedy back yard breeders have mass produced puppies with nothing more than the bottom line in mind. Paying the bills over the quality of the puppy. What you end up with is a lovable (they all deserve to be loved) puppy that has a really good chance of a major & expensive to fix health issues or die young.

Why would you pay $2000+ for a puppy from someone that is more concerned with paying the rent from the income than paying the same amount for a puppy from someone that actually wants to produce a healthy, balanced and well tempered puppy? It's not necessarily about the "title" but if you don't take test (having your dogs judged by someone) how do you know if you are producing a quality product. How can you claim "all my puppies are healthy" if you don't have the parents checked and the results posted on OFA for all to see? Heard the expression garbage in garbage out?

So if your goal is to start breeding as an income and you don't bother with clearances or show in some venue, there is a good chance you will put many families and children into heartbreaking conditions that could have been avoided. Sorry, that would keep me up at night. Breeders like this, for any breed, is the reason chaigslist is so popular and the animal control & rescues are constantly full. It's also the reason so many animals are put down each year. Well bred, quality puppies don't end up in the pound or put down because of behavior issues.


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

puddles everywhere said:


> Sadly many greedy back yard breeders have mass produced puppies with nothing more than the bottom line in mind. Paying the bills over the quality of the puppy. What you end up with is a lovable (they all deserve to be loved) puppy that has a really good chance of a major & expensive to fix health issues or die young.


We got "lucky" with Noah. Now, his breeder is a BYB, though I don't believe they ever did it for paying bills or even for a profit. They just loved their goldens, and I think they wanted to provide goldens for other families. I am friends with them on FB, and they even have come to "pawties" for their litters (Noah's mom had, I think 4 litters and then was spayed, Noah came from the second litter). They stay in touch with their puppy parents on FB. 

Why do I say we got lucky with Noah? Because he "only" has mild hip dysplasia, which was discovered when I had his hip/elbow clearances done at 2 years old. Based on his movements, I would have bet he would have passed, but I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that we keep him lean (and that's even more important now that we know he has dysplasia). 

But his brother from a later litter just had a $5000 hip surgery because his dysplasia was so severe. BUT, his owners also love BIG dogs, so they also overfeed him. I gently suggest to her that she try to keep him lean instead. And I noticed in recent pictures that he has a brow furrow that Noah has (which I've read since Noah was diagnosed with hypothyroidism, can be one sign of low thyroid). I plan to PM her on FB and suggest she get his thyroid tested. 

But my point is to put an emphasis on your point. Just because someone looked for a bargain pet only puppy, doesn't mean that in the end you really save any money. And, they don't have pet insurance either, but at least they are financially able to pay for such an expensive surgery. I know that they got this puppy for nostalgic reasons. They originally had one of Noah's brothers from the same litter as Noah, but he was killed in a tragic accident before he turned 2 years old. So when they learned that they could get a full brother of his in a later litter, they went for it. 

Make no mistake, I adore Noah. ADORE him....but I'll never go that route again. Just going through puppyhood with Moses, having a breeder match temperament to your family, getting a well bred puppy - it's such a different experience. Moses is such a happy puppy, unflappable. Confronts his fears bravely (when he alarm barks at something new, like the rider mower parked in the back yard, or the golf cart at the dock diving facility, he'll approach it and explore it if I walk up to it after he's alerted and touch it all over and then he's like "well, that's not that scarey at all!"). 

Once again, I'm rambling - but having one dog that was bred with no real thought behind it, and having another that was planned for some time, bred with purpose gives me a different perspective than I had before.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

At the end of July a post came across my FB page. It was a doodle, poodle, and golden breeder. She is definitely a high volume backyard breeder. In 4 months she had 7 litters, a total of 56 pups. Her selling price was $1,500.00 per pup. That works out to $84,000.00 in 4 months. Some of that money has to go back into her animals but no where does she have full clearances on these dogs. No where on her page does she show she does anything with her dogs accept have them produce puppies.  According to both breed clubs she is not following the code of ethics.  It looks like most of that money is going into her pockets. No where on her page does it show her actively doing anything for those pups to prepare them for the world.  This was certainly a greeder and people were purchasing those pups left and right and fawning all over her page. It was just sickening. 
This isn't the first time I checked out one of these facebook pages. About 2 years ago I looked into another one. She made $140,000.00 from Jan to Aug that year. Again, nothing showing up that she did anything for her dogs or pups besides breeding and selling. On this one I don't remember how many dogs she had and how many litters she had as it was over two years since I looked it up but I remember the amount. 

It is so disheartening that people are so willing to keep putting money in these breeders pockets.

Anyone that wants a dog please do your research into each individual breeder before handing over any money and make good choice. Please do the same when working with a rescue as not all of them are for the dogs either.


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## Otter (Feb 23, 2011)

A couple years ago we breed Pebbles.

We did it under the watchful eyes, guidance, and mentor-ship of three respected Golden breeders. We did everything right. Spared no expense.

There was *no* profit. Zero. That was ok for us, because we didn't do it for profit and didn't expect a profit.

We are now in the process of getting all the clearances and so on on the puppy we kept (Sandy) and searching for a sire... 

I consider myself very lucky in that we have a number of very good breeders in this area in addition to one of the country top canine reproductions hospitals with some of the best reproduction Vets. The hospital is just 20 minutes away. 

A mammal giving birth is a miraculous thing, but also extremely dangerous. So many things can go wrong so fast. Like someone said above, I don't know how BYB's sleep at night.


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