# Ukc



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Hi Melissa, English goldens and AKC shows are not mutually exclusive, if you have a very nice dog, handle, groom and train him exceptionally well, he will be competitive in the AKC ring under the right judges. (Just like everyone else has to do when showing in AKC.) There are breeders who incorporate European stock into their breeding programs and are very successful in the AKC ring. I would encourage you to seek these breeders -- with a track record of show success -- if you truly wish to show your golden. 
UKC shows are great fun and good for dogs and handlers alike. I support UKC and am proud of the accomplishments of my dog and his puppies in the UKC show ring. But let's not kid ourselves, it is MILES away from AKC and I would not put an ounce of merit in a UKC championship title as it relates to the true quality of the dog. 
So if you truly have a desire to compete with a golden in the breed ring, aim for AKC and buy from a breeder -- regardless of type, English or otherwise -- who has success in the AKC show ring. Best of luck.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Melissa, 

I tend to agree with Anney. Do a bit of research on the UKC Organization, how and why it was formed and its' basic founding principles. The UKC is all about a breeds "Purpose" when it comes to evaluating dogs. They don't give a hoot about where a dog comes from. 

They're looking for fitness of purpose in the dogs. Dogs that deviate too much from the breeds stated purpose will be judged harshly.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

One other thing the UKC does that AKC does not, they HIGHLY frown on Professional handlers. You can have someone else handle your dog but you can not pay them. It gives owner/handlers a better chance. AKC most dogs are professionally handled, not all but most. Those who handle their own, probably could be professional if they wanted to be. 

I have not done conformation in any venue, but I do compete in AKC and UKC performance. The UKC shows tend to be more laid back, smaller, more friendly because the there is not the pressure of time etc than the AKC shows. I enjoy both venues very much. And the UKC Premier show in June is a BLAST!!!!


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## Melissa C (Nov 6, 2011)

Thanks for all the info on UKC vs AKC. Does anyone know anything about the UKC English Golden Retriever Club?


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## Melissa C (Nov 6, 2011)

Here is info on the club that was just formed and from what I am told is working on becoming the parent club for UKC: British Golden Retriever Club of America - www.britishgrca.com/British_GRCA/Welcome.html. Doesn't look too good to me.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

oh forget it


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

My Goldens who are far from English did well at the UKC shows. It will change the look of things if they adopt the standard from the link you posted. Just quickly looking at the standard, the bitch height is significantly shorter than the AKC bitch height... That is just one of the differences... And if you are interested ultimately in AKC, a true English golden will probably not do as well in the AKC ring. They often do better in the CKC ring.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I was gonna say, just ask Shalva.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Finding judges who are willing to put up a dog out of UK/european lines is very difficult... I can think of only one dog out of UK lines that finished an AKC championship and they followed specific judges all over the country... well out of the realm of most people. Gorgeous dog.. exception rather than the rule... people are kidding themselves if they think that UK dogs can compete wiht American type dogs in the AKC breed ring... even those with color are very different in appearance than the American dogs... but I am not going to get into a debate about that.... the Canadian Kennel Club is more accepting of the style especially in Eastern Canada as well as the most obvious color differences... My cream boy has done well in the UKC but the color can be a bit of a problem in UKC but the odds are better there for him... 

as far as this British goldens group... many of the most reputable people who are involved with English/UK dogs are very upset about this group and this has become a major source of discussion on our email list... People are not pleased with the individuals in this group... and at least two of the folks who are in the contact list as prominant members are not people that I would consider to be a responsible breeders....


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## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

Interesting...earlier today, that site had a list of "breeders" under their puppy search page. Now you must email them to get it. 

Funny too - they pretty much copied the GRCA Code of Ethics as their own with a few interesting changes...(emphasis mine):

Hips - 
GRCA:


> A report from the accepted health registry of another country may be used for U.S. dogs that are *24 months of age* or older when x-rayed.


Other "club":


> A report from the accepted health registry of another country may be used for U.S. dogs that are *12 months of age* or older when x-rayed.


They repeat this same change for the elbow clearances. They also changed the part about age of breeding:

GRCA:


> Generally, a Golden Retriever is not physically and mentally mature *until the age of 2 years*; an individual dog’s suitability as a breeding animal is difficult to assess until that time.


Other "club":


> The breeder should use only healthy, mature adult bitches with all health clearances *no earlier than 18 months of age*, and adult dogs that are physically and mentally sound with all clearances prior to breeding.


They also removed the part where the GRCA CoE that states that records should be made publicly available in


> an online approved database, the following examination reports in order to verify status concerning possible hip dysplasia, hereditary eye disease, hereditary cardiovascular disease, and elbow dysplasia. Online approved databases include registries under management of veterinary professional associations; registries maintained by non-profit organizations with veterinary staff or advisory boards; and university-based registries under veterinary advisement. Health examination results for U.S. dogs should be recorded in U.S. databases.


The other "club" simply states


> possess, and make publicly available the following examination reports in order to verify status concerning possible hip dysplasia, hereditary eye disease, hereditary cardiovascular disease, and elbow dysplasia.


Sorry but it seems to me like this new "club" formed so that they could pick and choose which parts of the GRCA's Code of Ethics to follow and which to change to accommodate their current (and sometimes questionable) breeding practices. This way, they can state that they are ethical breeders because they follow this "club's" CoE. It's all a bit shady...


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## gmorris (Dec 13, 2011)

I did notice that the BGRCA removed the board members and stud dogs from the website. Why would they remove the board members?


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Because people are already trying to dissassociate themselves from this group, which most reputable breeders who have or use UK/European lines are regarding as misguided and divisive. There are members of it who want to see a split formalized, much as happened with English and American Cocker spaniels. This is contrary to what the vast majority of Golden breeders want to see happen, including those of us with UK style dogs. Also some of the lead people in the group have very minimal experience, as became clear when we starting digging into the site more deeply--lots of misinformed, and contradictory statements--taking their names off keeps anyone from investigating more fully.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I think this BGRCA thing is soooo sad. I would hate to think that the breed is becoming more divided. I believe the cross fertilization between English and American lines can produce the strongest and best Goldens around. The classic breeders have been mixing the two forever. Marcia Schlehr who literally helped write the book on Goldens (she certainly illustrated it) is one example. She, as PointGold once pointed out, is on English Golden lists but her dogs are a mixture of English and American lines. That is the past of the best American breeders and I hope will be the future.


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## gmorris (Dec 13, 2011)

They say it is to get more exposure in the show ring. Could this club maybe help these lighter dogs gain more titles? I remember a few of the members Katie Paige www.luckyladyfarms.com / April Fulk www.alaskasretrievers.com / Angel Martin with Goldensglen / Jane Stevens with Ventess I believe.....I know there were a few more but can't recall them right now. One more I think was oakshire goldens.


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## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

gmorris said:


> They say it is to get more exposure in the show ring. Could this club maybe help these lighter dogs gain more titles? I remember a few of the members Katie Paige www.luckyladyfarms.com / April Fulk www.alaskasretrievers.com / Angel Martin with Goldensglen / Jane Stevens with Ventess I believe.....I know there were a few more but can't recall them right now. One more I think was oakshire goldens.


They are already getting titles in the UKC and IABCA. This club won't help them get anywhere with the AKC because AKC only allows one "parent" club in any breed. The only way I could see them going with this is petitioning the AKC to create varieties of Golden Retriever - something that most people would absolutely be against.

In fact, just found this on Lucky Lady Goldens' site:


> Because English standard enthusiasts here are being omitted from the show ring in AKC events, there is a movement afoot to attempt to modify the standard to be inclusive of what the rest of the world adheres to.


Aside from that, I really do think that with the changes that they have made to their Code of Ethics, their reluctance to post the names of the officers of the club, the removal of the stud dogs list (which listed several dogs that were in violation of their own COE), and the fact that a lot of them are breeding on prelims only speaks volumes about what their true intent is. In their club, dogs can be bred younger, on prelims, and they can use health registries that are not easily available for the US general public to check health screenings on.


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