# Puppies are here!



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I hate to be critical, but why did you have another dog over while your female was in heat?

Is that dog nicely bred, good specimen, have all clearances? Or is there a possibility that the puppies may inherit issues due to his history being unknown and/or he has undesirable traits? 

I have no idea how abortions work with dogs - but I'd be considering that as opposed to putting my dog through the danger of a litter, when it's not even a breeding you would have chosen for her.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

No thats ok, I agree and would not have. I was out. My daughter had her friend over and they thought it would be nice for the dogs to have a "play date". Whilst I am aware she could still fall pregnant my daughter was not and was also told by her friend that they had their boy desexed, as that was the impression she was under. Basically misinformed teenage girls trying to spend quality time with their beloved pets. &#55357;&#56862;


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Sorry I only just saw the rest of your post. He hasn't had his hip/elbow scores done but comes from a reputable breeder and both his parents scored very low. 

Physically he's a fabulous specimen, hence the reason they decided to go on and breed down the track (provided scores were appropriate). 

I have met him before loads of times on walks and our dogs know each other but I hadn't considered breeding with him as I didn't know he was even an option. Knowing this as I do now I'd definitely have considered anyway. 

As we live in the same estate their dog shares the same vet. He has had prelim. testing done when they decided not to neuter him and all came back great.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

You best get with reputable breeders (the people who bred your girl, for example - if she came from a reputable breeder) and lean on them for advice. Especially since this is not the safest or easiest thing for the girls to go through. There's another thread I read last night where another family lost their girl while have a C-section done. 

Good luck.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Welcome to the Forum, glad you've joined us.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

So we have an update, there are at least three pups. Vet says possibly could be double or more but we have her booked in for an xray five days prior to the due date.

Our fabulous vet gave her a full check and she's in perfect health. We wormed her and her nipples have just in the last 24 hours begun to swell a little. 

Now I'm in the preparation mode. Have to sort out a whelping box, collars, have money aside for csection in the worst case scenario, and also money aside for worming, vaccinations and microchippping of pups. Also have started accumulating blankets etc. So we're on track for around June 1st.

It's exciting but daunting too. I've already got a basic schedule of the family 24 hour watch for the first week or two and I've ordered 2 newborn bottles in case any needed a little help.

I'm well read up on whelping, mastitis, and all the things that cam come about, but having had 4 children myself I'm well aware that a birth plan is exactly that.... lol.

So there you go! LOTS of updates to follow. &#55357;&#56842;

Please no negativity. I understand this is not the perfect scenario but I'm making the best of what the situation is, and she will be desexed after she's weened.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Also wanted to ask how I add images in the thread please?


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Oooh last thing, should I be changing this title and if so how? Is it in the right area too? Is there a place it should be? Thanks lovelys.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

Welcome to the forum Phoebegirl. It sounds like you are trying to make a bad situation the best you can. Good thoughts for Phoebe as she goes through her pregnancy. Wishing you and Phoebe an easy time and healthy pups. I am technology challenged myself so I really can't help on adding the pictures. I just take my pictures off my picture trail account using the picture address and click on the little box above with the mountain on it. I then plug in the picture address and it ends up on the forum. 

I am curious on how you have handled this with your daughter. What type of consequences does she have (responsibilities)? This has added a ton of expense to your family, are you making her help with the expenses? Will she have some chores with the amount of added daily work you will have taking care of Phoebe and her pups? Does she realize how serious this is and that it actually be life threatening to your Phoebe?
Were you able to find a mentor? How did Phoebe's breeder take the news? What are you doing to find good homes for the pups to be? Once the pups are born have you decided how you will work with them to give them the best during that first critical period of life? 

You could probably start a new thread in the main forum on Phoebe's pregnancy and your experiences along the way. When the pups are born you could start a thread in the puppy section on their daily growth.

No matter how it happened I hope you can find lots joy in your experience of bringing new lives into the world. Jumping the gun here but I can't wait to see pictures of Phoebe with her pups.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Phoebegirl said:


> Also wanted to ask how I add images in the thread please?


Go into the Advanced Mode when you are making a post. You will see a paper clip above the area to make a post. Hit the paper clip, a window opens up where you can Browse your computer to upload photos you have saved on it. Select your photo (s), then hit upload. You can also enter in an URL link here if you have photos saved to a Photo website, copy and past the URL. There is a box below which tells you what image formats can be uploaded such as JPEG, and the size limits. If your photos are taking too long to upload, you may need to reduce the size of them. 

Or........ you select the photo tab above your post to copy and paste the URL code. 



Phoebegirl said:


> Oooh last thing, should I be changing this title and if so how? Is it in the right area too? Is there a place it should be? Thanks lovelys.



I or any Mod can change the title for you, just contact one of us. Members have 24 hours from the time you make a post to edit the post, including changing the title. After 24 hours, only a Mod can make a change to a post or thread.


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## abradshaw71 (Jan 13, 2014)

So glad you've gone through with the pregnancy. I can't imagine having a litter of pups aborted. Can't wait to see pictures of the pups. Here is to a safe and healthy delivery for your girl. Thanks for making the best out of a whoops situation.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Thanks Solinvictus. 


Ahhh yes the daughter. She's had a crash course on everything I've learned, which is a LOT. She already does a lot of clean up and is at least 50% involved with the pets (me being the other 50%). She will be on duty with the weekend 24 hour care and is well aware that in the first few weeks she won't be going anywhere social as I'll need all of the help I can get, even if it means extra chores around the house while I deal with pups. She's actually very upset and I think feels very embarrassed that this has happened, and isn't taking it lightly. Especially as she adores Phoebs (as we call her) and is stressing about something happening to her.


I'm not too fussed about the financial side, it is a cost I didn't really need but that being said Phoebe is a family member and deserves the best care too. I'm well aware of the costs that this could and very likely will incur, so I've already started to put extra aside to cover things that may crop up.


My biggest issue is concern. Mostly for Phoebe's health, but also now that we have puppies present, I'm already stressing about these little pups. It may sound silly but I already love them and I have a growing worry for them being in the right homes. I do NOT want them ending up in someone's hands who wants "a cute puppy" so I plan on doing a lot of screening. I'd rather rehome them for free if it means them going to someone who's in it for the long haul. This is where I'm having the most drama, attempting to come up with a screening process. A lot of information is available online these days but this is one subject that doesn't come up enough and as far as I'm concerned money to purchase does not mean a pup.:no:


I have decided we will keep a pup and my ex husband (we are on really great terms) is going to also adopt one, although this pup will stay with us from Mon - Fri when he is at work for the first 4-6 months, after which we will do three days at his and two at mine and weekends at his for a month before going to live with him. I work at home so I will am here 24/7 and won't need to take time off and I don't want a new pup taken from it's littermates only to sit by itself for 9 hours a day while it's still adjusting to a new home without Mumma and siblings. Perhaps I'm over cautious?

Our vet is our mentor of sorts and we have a very good relationship so I can call him with anything and chat for as long as I like. I have attempted to get in contact with Phoebe's breeder and am not getting a response. I am very disapointed in this. She is a registered breeder and I would have expected more, not sure if she's moved though or gotten out of the business, so I'll keep trying.:crossfing


In the meantime I'm reading reading and reading some more and comparing stories, both happy and horrific, to gain some insight as to what lays ahead. I tell you what though, I'm super thankful that there are forums around like this that have a plethora of experience and knowledge on the subject! 


As far as our girl goes, she's gone off her food a bit and has become quite the clingwrap dog, not leaving my side. Clever girl knows who's got her back. 

She's not lost any weight though, and apart from being a bit cheeky and ignoring us at times, she's doing beautifully. She has taken to jumping up on my bed instead of sleeping in on of hers (she has an outside and an inside bed) but I suspect that won't last for long, and really she just wants to be close to me. Also she's become particularly affectionate to our bunnies, which is funny to see. She's always liked them and sat at the side of the hutch etc, but now they cuddle in her bed. They're only little so it's pretty cute. 

One thing I'd like to know about is what is the stance on pregnancy grooming? I've read different accounts from both sides and my train of thought is wait to see how much hair she looses on her tum, and shave it only if she needs it. Thoughts?


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

abradshaw71 said:


> So glad you've gone through with the pregnancy. I can't imagine having a litter of pups aborted. Can't wait to see pictures of the pups. Here is to a safe and healthy delivery for your girl. Thanks for making the best out of a whoops situation.


 
Thanks hun, doing what we can.  xo


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> Go into the Advanced Mode when you are making a post. You will see a paper clip above the area to make a post. Hit the paper clip, a window opens up where you can Browse your computer to upload photos you have saved on it. Select your photo (s), then hit upload. You can also enter in an URL link here if you have photos saved to a Photo website, copy and past the URL. There is a box below which tells you what image formats can be uploaded such as JPEG, and the size limits. If your photos are taking too long to upload, you may need to reduce the size of them.
> 
> Or........ you select the photo tab above your post to copy and paste the URL code.
> 
> ...


Ok, figured out the pics, thanks!  Perhaps it would be a good idea to get you to move it if that's ok. Maybe to "Puppies are coming" or something along those lines?


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Love the pictures! I hope everything works out for you. Do you realize you probably can't AKC register the puppies? Does Phoebe have prelims? She is old enough to do eye and heart clearances and I think those can be safely done while she is pregnant. You ought to think about doing those. Who is Phoebe's breeder? Who is the male's breeder? Are they on k9data? If not you should think about adding them, it makes pedigree research WAY easier. Welcome to the forum too! Sorry for all the questions, I am a very curious person.


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## abradshaw71 (Jan 13, 2014)

Phoebe is gorgeous! Love her with your bunny.


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## Anon-2130948gsoni (Apr 12, 2014)

Since your daughter knew to ask about the male dog, did ask, and was given bad information, I don't see how she can be blamed for this. If anything, she was more responsible about it than many distracted kids would be, especially since it sounds like she's pitching in.

Maybe she can research how to evaluate potential homes for the puppies and do the reference/vet checks for them? As for adopting them out for free--not to be overly cynical but first, too many people put no value on anything that's free and second, if they can't afford an adoption fee, how will they afford the first big vet bill? It's a way to evaluate commitment and resources without having to be too invasive.


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Noreaster said:


> Since your daughter knew to ask about the male dog, did ask, and was given bad information, I don't see how she can be blamed for this. If anything, she was more responsible about it than many distracted teens would be.
> 
> But she can certainly pitch in for Project Puppy, because you're all going to doing a lot of work! Maybe she can research how to evaluate potential homes for the puppies and do the reference/vet checks for them?
> 
> I hope it all turns out well for everyone.


Or be in charge of socializing the puppies! That is really fun for a teenager. Gaylens golden retrievers has lots of super fun ideas on how to do that. Gaylans.com
Also you or your daughter are welcome to pm or call me anytime to talk about fun ways to do that (I have bred service dogs and am constantly looking for creative ways to socialize puppies).


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Eowyn said:


> Love the pictures! I hope everything works out for you. Do you realize you probably can't AKC register the puppies? Does Phoebe have prelims? She is old enough to do eye and heart clearances and I think those can be safely done while she is pregnant. You ought to think about doing those. Who is Phoebe's breeder? Who is the male's breeder? Are they on k9data? If not you should think about adding them, it makes pedigree research WAY easier. Welcome to the forum too! Sorry for all the questions, I am a very curious person.


No drama's hun. Just about to head off to bed, lol. But... 
I've written a bit about this in I think my first or second post.

I did know I can't AKC register (I'm in Australia so it'd be ANKC) but still same deal. 

Phoebe's breeder is also in Australia, and I will be first trying to go through all avenues to get in contact but failing that I don't know what to do. I am a little tempted to contact ANKC to find out how to get in contact but don't want to get her into trouble. She is registered though. 

I've just googled right now and can see there's another litter listed in her name so hopefully I have the correct details now! I'll be calling tomorrow! Yeay! 

Not sure about Ben's breeder, the family are away at the moment so I'll do some research when they get back in a few weeks.

Love the k9data idea, will be looking into that over the weekend.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Noreaster said:


> Since your daughter knew to ask about the male dog, did ask, and was given bad information, I don't see how she can be blamed for this. If anything, she was more responsible about it than many distracted kids would be, especially since it sounds like she's pitching in.
> 
> Maybe she can research how to evaluate potential homes for the puppies and do the reference/vet checks for them? As for adopting them out for free--not to be overly cynical but first, too many people put no value on anything that's free and second, if they can't afford an adoption fee, how will they afford the first big vet bill? It's a way to evaluate commitment and resources without having to be too invasive.


 
Oh I absolutely agree, I blame myself completely. :doh: She is a very clever kid and I am not upset with her at all, just myself really. 

Love the idea of her helping research potential homes. In regards to the free part, I agree with you there too, I didn't explain myself very well though, lol. I more meant me handing them over to golden retriever rescue for them to screen, place and a cost for the new adopters, is a lot better option to me than me having any part in them ending up in the wrong home. 

I will avoid this and use it as a last resort if I have trouble placing any, but it'd prefer to do that that just give it to some random with money. Does that make sense?


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

In answer to your grooming query, I don't like to shave them- that can make tiny abrasions and a way for bacteria to make her breasts home. Take some scissors and have her lie on her side, then cut fairly close around each nipple and her vulva, and if she's heavily coated, the underside of her tail and inside of her back furnishings. You won't be taking off anything that's not going to come out anyway, and will make it easier to both latch on for puppies and clean her bottom for you.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Eowyn said:


> Or be in charge of socializing the puppies! That is really fun for a teenager. Gaylens golden retrievers has lots of super fun ideas on how to do that. Gaylans.com
> Also you or your daughter are welcome to pm or call me anytime to talk about fun ways to do that (I have bred service dogs and am constantly looking for creative ways to socialize puppies).


Oh she'd love that idea. Her plan is actually is to study obstetrics or become a vet so by the end of this I'm sure it'll give her a clearer picture of what she thinks of the hard yards of animal care! She may love the idea more! 

I'll definately keep your details at hand too, it's ever so helpful having the experience to go to when I need to know new things.


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Phoebegirl said:


> Oh I absolutely agree, I blame myself completely. :doh: She is a very clever kid and I am not upset with her at all, just myself really.
> 
> Love the idea of her helping research potential homes. In regards to the free part, I agree with you there too, I didn't explain myself very well though, lol. I more meant me handing them over to golden retriever rescue for them to screen, place and a cost for the new adopters, is a lot better option to me than me having any part in them ending up in the wrong home.
> 
> I will avoid this and use it as a last resort if I have trouble placing any, but it'd prefer to do that that just give it to some random with money. Does that make sense?


Go to different breeders websites and look over their puppy applications. That will give you good ideas on what questions to ask.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Prism Goldens said:


> In answer to your grooming query, I don't like to shave them- that can make tiny abrasions and a way for bacteria to make her breasts home. Take some scissors and have her lie on her side, then cut fairly close around each nipple and her vulva, and if she's heavily coated, the underside of her tail and inside of her back furnishings. You won't be taking off anything that's not going to come out anyway, and will make it easier to both latch on for puppies and clean her bottom for you.


 
Fabulous thanks! So no "Nair"? hehe. jks


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Phoebegirl said:


> Oh she'd love that idea. Her plan is actually is to study obstetrics or become a vet so by the end of this I'm sure it'll give her a clearer picture of what she thinks of the hard yards of animal care! She may love the idea more!
> 
> I'll definately keep your details at hand too, it's ever so helpful having the experience to go to when I need to know new things.


Yup. I will pm you my email (I won't be able to do phone calls since you are in Australia) and you can also private message me too if you need anything. 

Just an extra thought, do you have a good emergency vet around you incase you have a problem when your vet isn't in? I would start looking into that now, as dogs are notorious for having problems when the vet is out. That way if something horrible happens you will be a little more prepared (ie. having been there before, have directions printed and on hand, phone numbers easily accessible and know emergency hours).


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Phoebegirl*

Phoebegirl

Glad you are doing the right thing and that Phoebe is having the puppies.
Lots of great support and direction here.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Eowyn said:


> Yup. I will pm you my email (I won't be able to do phone calls since you are in Australia) and you can also private message me too if you need anything.
> 
> Just an extra thought, do you have a good emergency vet around you incase you have a problem when your vet isn't in? I would start looking into that now, as dogs are notorious for having problems when the vet is out. That way if something horrible happens you will be a little more prepared (ie. having been there before, have directions printed and on hand, phone numbers easily accessible and know emergency hours).


Ace! Thank you! 

Already have the details for a great 24 hour vet, had that since we bought Phoebe into our home. They are maybe 10 mins drive in the middle of the night. Otherwise my vet is 4 streets away and they are there until 6.30pm every night.

I also have another big centre 15 mins in the other direction and they have opened an indoor heated pool for dogs and it's only about $10 entry so as she gets bigger I'm going to start taking her a couple of times a week for a bit of fun and relaxation for her. She loves a swim! I was actually going to do this anyway but it's pretty good timing! 

I have to admit I have OCD so I have everything already in folders, lol. I've also got them laminated on the side of the fridge next to a page on each pet and what they can and cant eat. Numbers in my phone too(hangs head in shame). I tend to over compensate for everything and am a bit independant (I even drove myself to hospital to have my 4th child, and stopped for take away coffee on the way).


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Karen519 said:


> Phoebegirl
> 
> Glad you are doing the right thing and that Phoebe is having the puppies.
> Lots of great support and direction here.


 
Thank you Karen519! It's lovely to be met by positive thought, idea's and suggestions. Fabulous group!


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Phoebegirl said:


> Ace! Thank you!
> 
> Already have the details for a great 24 hour vet, had that since we bought Phoebe into our home. They are maybe 10 mins drive in the middle of the night. Otherwise my vet is 4 streets away and they are there until 6.30pm every night.
> 
> ...


You are lucky to have them so close. My vet is about a 30 minute drive, my backup vet is 45 minutes and my emergency vet is 1 hour 15 minutes away. Not cool for middle of the night emergencies with pregnant goldens. But having it be for one of the top repo vets in the country (Dr. Hutchinson) makes me feel better about the long drive and it's not like I have closer option.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Oh really? I guess I am really. Something you take forgranted I guess! We are close to everything here. 1km to the shopping centre, 600 metres to the secondary school and 800 to the primary school. Have parks and football ovals 350 metres and a general store, bakery, pizza and fish and chip store 250 metres away. Although I don't eat either, lol.

Most importantly a really nice restaurant/cafe and wine bar in the same block. &#55357;&#56841;


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I'm glad it's only 3... and glad you have 2 out of the 3 homes already. And glad you've decided to spay her so this never happens again...... 

My thing is this is something you don't want take too lightly, especially when it happened the wrong way with a neighbor dog getting loose with yours. You are fortunate your daughter apparently set up a date with another golden - which I hope is drilled into her head doesn't always turn into "puppies!" to keep and all kinds of good stuff like that. I honestly would not even keep a puppy for that reason..... and I would she understands how serious this could have been or could yet be. 

Your dog could have gotten with a totally different breed and created a bunch of very unplaceable mixed breeds of the kind that are destroyed all the time in shelters because nobody wants a mix of that kind. 

I probably should keep my mouth shut and this might be negative, but because this is a public forum - I just think that it should be emphasized to whoever might be looking in here that - this is not a norm or should be celebrated the same way as litters that were done the right way. If you check Jill's thread, or Kfayard's thread - those were litters where they were planned and carried out with absolute care for both the moms and the future of the puppies.

I feel like a jerk for pointing all that out, but again, open forum....


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Good luck with the pups... A lot of work and a lot of worry...


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Phoebegirl said:


> Oh I absolutely agree, I blame myself completely. :doh: She is a very clever kid and I am not upset with her at all, just myself really.
> 
> Love the idea of her helping research potential homes. In regards to the free part, I agree with you there too, I didn't explain myself very well though, lol. I more meant me handing them over to golden retriever rescue for them to screen, place and a cost for the new adopters, is a lot better option to me than me having any part in them ending up in the wrong home.
> 
> I will avoid this and use it as a last resort if I have trouble placing any, but it'd prefer to do that that just give it to some random with money. Does that make sense?


If you place the puppies yourself, you should have the buyers go to their vet and pay for a full set of puppy vaccines, and the spay/neuter, and bring you the receipt. That way you know they are committed to having those done. You could do that instead of charging a price for the puppy.

You need to have a contract too, they must have the vaccines and s/n done by a specified age, and they must return the puppy back to you at anytime for the life of the dog if they can't keep it.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Megora said:


> I'm glad it's only 3... and glad you have 2 out of the 3 homes already. And glad you've decided to spay her so this never happens again......
> 
> My thing is this is something you don't want take too lightly, especially when it happened the wrong way with a neighbor dog getting loose with yours. You are fortunate your daughter apparently set up a date with another golden - which I hope is drilled into her head doesn't always turn into "puppies!" to keep and all kinds of good stuff like that. I honestly would not even keep a puppy for that reason..... and I would she understands how serious this could have been or could yet be.
> 
> ...


Definitely an open forum and definitely allowed to have your opinion. However first of all "apparently" is not necessary. The common interest of both girls having Goldens is one reason they are such good friends. They thought they were doing the right thing by letting their pets enjoy each others company too. 

Additionally, I understand why you're writing this, to "apparently" deter other readers, and that's fair enough. 
You decision to not keep a puppy is your choice in this scenario, and you can criticize me in regards to the dog all you like, but I'm not about to 1. Have you criticize my parenting and 2. Not keep one to teach her a lesson. The whole point of this post is to gain information and knowledge about making this oops situation have the best outcome for my Phoebe and secondary to that, her pups. Keeping one is a good option for us and for me, teaching my daughter a lesson is not above doing what's right for my fur babies. Thank you for your concern. Kind Regards.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Parenting sorry. Silly phone.


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## Ripley16 (Jan 26, 2012)

Oh my goodness. I just caught up on the forum and you are going to have some full hands come June! I'm so glad that you are in a situation where you are going to be so well suited and prepared to whelp these babies when they arrive. Your situation is complicated, but from what I can see, you did the best you could do in a less than ideal situation. Your daughter didn't do anything wrong. It was a mistake, mistakes happen to the best of us. I am glad though that she is so concerned about Pheobe, and that she will be involved in the whole puppy process. You are in for a wild ride! Good Luck!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Ripley16 said:


> Oh my goodness. I just caught up on the forum and you are going to have some full hands come June! I'm so glad that you are in a situation where you are going to be so well suited and prepared to whelp these babies when they arrive. Your situation is complicated, but from what I can see, you did the best you could do in a less than ideal situation. Your daughter didn't do anything wrong. It was a mistake, mistakes happen to the best of us. I am glad though that she is so concerned about Pheobe, and that she will be involved in the whole puppy process. You are in for a wild ride! Good Luck!


Haha, I know right! Thanks sweets, I can only imagine! It's funny, I know this will be a fabulous experience but it's a hell of a lot of work. I thought 4 kids was time consuming! Lol

I'm very much looking forward to puppies finding their forever homes and getting back to normal and we aren't even there yet! ?

I'm expecting this process to cost me a lot more than the cost of a new puppy, but the upside is that the little pup we hold on to will learn from his/her Mumma what is acceptable behaviour in our household and was is expected of him/her, right from day one. Plus Miss Phoebe will benefit from having another dog in the family I think. 

I'm in Australia and here we have the RSPCA. The president of the RSPCA, Hugh Wirth, says that where possible, it's great if you can have more than one dog together. This is just not possible in every home but we are lucky enough to be able to have 2 here.

Anyway, thanks for your kind words (I'm watching Phoebe vomiting as we speak, poor bub), it's certainly going to be an interesting ride!


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Sometimes I feel people should keep things to themselves..this isnt the place nor time to be "negative". The OP has come for help. Yes the situation was not ideal, but things happen. Its not like she came here touting that she purposely bred her girl to a dog..it was an accident. She wants to learn about the process and feel like we need to do that. IMHO. 

To Phoebegirl..having gone through having a litter recently here are some tips..
1) i wouldnt take her anywhere, keep her at home..less chance for her to pick up something..i pretty much had my house on lockdown. Besides a walk down my street none of my dogs went anywhere else.
2) get supplies ready to go. My girl went a little early and Start taking her temperatures a 7-10 days before due date. That helped me know she was going to be in labor soon. Take it twice daily at first (morning and night) and once temps drop more often. 
3)be prepared for a longggg night..always seem to happen at night. Rest before it really starts!
4) get your girl use to where you want her to have puppies ..have her eating and sleeping in the whelping box. 
5) the biggest thing is making sure pups are kept warm..heating pad (set on low, or special kind made for whelping box). 
6) make sure you do have help for delivery..my girl kept popping two out at a time just about!
7) know the signs of an emergency and act quickly if you see them! More than 1 hour between pups is cause for concern.
8) my girl got super finicky with eating towards the end. They need to eat..so had to entice her with extra goodies in her food and fed her smaller meals throughout the day. Once those pups were out she was back to normal..well even ate more than before, which is what you need to do anyways. Keep close eye on her milk supply, especially if she has a big litter.

Thats what i have for now..feel free to PM me if you need anymore help! Wish you a safe, non-eventful delivery!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

OnMyWay2MyDreams said:


> Sometimes I feel people should keep things to themselves..this isnt the place nor time to be "negative". The OP has come for help. Yes the situation was not ideal, but things happen. Its not like she came here touting that she purposely bred her girl to a dog..it was an accident. She wants to learn about the process and feel like we need to do that. IMHO.
> 
> To Phoebegirl..having gone through having a litter recently here are some tips..
> 1) i wouldnt take her anywhere, keep her at home..less chance for her to pick up something..i pretty much had my house on lockdown. Besides a walk down my street none of my dogs went anywhere else.
> ...


I've LITERALLY just finished reading your experience from start to finish, all 700+ posts, from the pregnancy confirmation to finding a home last Friday for your last boy as an assistance dog! I LOVED your thread and learned a lot and was very entertained. How's Daisy doing (ex Minnie, lol).

So.... first of all thanks heaps for your helpful post (above). This is where we are at on your thoughts. 

1. She's going through a phase where she just doesn't want to go anywhere, even a walk. I'm considering getting the treadmill out! lol. But she's never been a crazy active dog. All she's ever wanted to do is be an at your feet kind of dog. She's only ever chewed one pair of swimming goggles (our fault because they were left out). She has barked probably 10 times in her life. Doesn't jump up. Waits for her command before she eats, and is not food oriented at all, except for cheese which I've limited to a tiny bit every couple of days because of the calcium.

2. Great advice, am starting to accumulate things now.  I have read lots on temps and drops etc (on your thread too, hehe) so I'm going to do exactly what you've said here and chart from a week and a half out.

3. Haha, too funny. The only time in my life I'll be glad I have insomnia! :yuck:

4. Again, great advice. Will be basing my whelping box around your ideas on your thread actually. I'll use melamine though because I have good access to off cuts. Have already designed a plan and am planning to have it built 2 weeks out. This will be an indoor process as I can keep an eye on them better and have them get used to the regular day to day noise of kids and family life. Also it'll be winter here so too cold in the garage. Once they hit 4 weeks-ish, if all is going well, I have purchased a motorbike shipping container to turn into a nice big kennel so they have lots of shelter when they do go outside into our garden for little bouts.

5. Do you suggest a heating pad over heat lamp? This is one thing I am not sure about. Our house has ducted heating and is set nice and warm but like you said, they will need extra warmth. They will be in the smaller of our two loungerooms so it's fully enclosed and warm, just near the fireplace.

6. Other half has his own business so he'll plan on working locally in the few days prior and when temp changes he'll stay home. Ex hubby will also be here (he's a bit of a photographer and will take pics, but also Phoebe loves him), kids will be home too, and they're great kids and understand that quiet is essential. Miss 13 is obsessed with obstetrics and I'd trust her to deliver my baby, lol. She'll be a bystander but has already self allocated clean up duty in between pups to keep everything clean and let me focus on the Mumma and pups.

7. Yep, got it. This is where I'll reply on people like yourself that I can turn to. Stupid questions are better than dead puppies or Mumma. 

8. She's already doing this! :doh: She's on Hills Vet Essentials and Supercoat with extra's that we've always given her that she's able to eat. She loves cheese and bacon and has taken to trying to eat paper.... weird. Pica maybe? Knew it happened in people but didn't know dogs could suffer! In regards to milk supply, I've ordered a couple of puppy bottles just in case and will do the weights of pups to make sure there is good gain (again read about in your post, ). Will have a sit down with my vet to discuss back up idea before whelping so I have it all on hand if need be.

Thanks for your post, it's incredibly helpful. Arm myself with knowledge, hope for the best and expect the worst. 

In regards to the whelping, our vet suggests little to no intervention unless really needed (Phoebe needs help or isn't doing her job). I have watched youtube upon youtube golden births and read SO MANY blogs. SO I know what to look out for, but still I think it will be a good idea to have lots of notes in case I have a brain freeze at the time!


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## PiratesAndPups (Sep 24, 2013)

I've seen a few threads on this board before where someone is actually an irresponsible backyard breeder who has no regard for the safety of their pet. I'm glad that is NOT the case here. Mistakes happen, but it's nice to see you working for the best in this situation for all involved. Seeing the amount of research, care and looking for support, I think you'll do great! This is definitely the best way to make something great out of a less than ideal situation.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

PiratesAndPups said:


> I've seen a few threads on this board before where someone is actually an irresponsible backyard breeder who has no regard for the safety of their pet. I'm glad that is NOT the case here. Mistakes happen, but it's nice to see you working for the best in this situation for all involved. Seeing the amount of research, care and looking for support, I think you'll do great! This is definitely the best way to make something great out of a less than ideal situation.


Thank you, thats lovely. X


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Also, when we have pups, do people want to see birth pics? Whats puppy dog etiquette? Lol


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Officially been switched over to a different name and subject forum. Thanks admin!


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## abradshaw71 (Jan 13, 2014)

There are many of us here rooting for you and Phoebe and her pups! Though, we wouldn't want this to happen again, I think it's important to encourage those that are trying to do the right thing from a situation that was an accident. Wouldn't it be great if there were no accidents in life and we lived in perfect little worlds? Not going to happen. That's not living and that's not real life.  

Kuddos to you for taking the time to do as much planning, research, and asking for advice from those that have gone through this before. They are the ones that can truly help you out in this situation. The rest of us need to be your cheering section, because I'm pretty sure, many of us would not be able to handle a situation like this as well as you have. Go Team Phoebe!


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Phoebegirl said:


> I've LITERALLY just finished reading your experience from start to finish, all 700+ posts, from the pregnancy confirmation to finding a home last Friday for your last boy as an assistance dog! I LOVED your thread and learned a lot and was very entertained. How's Daisy doing (ex Minnie, lol).
> 
> So.... first of all thanks heaps for your helpful post (above). This is where we are at on your thoughts.
> 
> ...


Hope everything goes well..and dont hesitate to ask questions to those of us offering help!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

abradshaw71 said:


> There are many of us here rooting for you and Phoebe and her pups! Though, we wouldn't want this to happen again, I think it's important to encourage those that are trying to do the right thing from a situation that was an accident. Wouldn't it be great if there were no accidents in life and we lived in perfect little worlds? Not going to happen. That's not living and that's not real life.
> 
> Kuddos to you for taking the time to do as much planning, research, and asking for advice from those that have gone through this before. They are the ones that can truly help you out in this situation. The rest of us need to be your cheering section, because I'm pretty sure, many of us would not be able to handle a situation like this as well as you have. Go Team Phoebe!


Thank you. That means a lot, really it does. I'm definately well read on it all, perhaps too much so! lol.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

OnMyWay2MyDreams said:


> Hope everything goes well..and dont hesitate to ask questions to those of us offering help!


 
I won't! And I'm super glad to have (most people here) on board on happy to share their expertise!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

OnMyWay2MyDreams said:


> Sometimes I feel people should keep things to themselves..this isnt the place nor time to be "negative". The OP has come for help. Yes the situation was not ideal, but things happen. Its not like she came here touting that she purposely bred her girl to a dog..it was an accident.


I read the first post where she had been planning to breed this dog anyway. And the owners of the male dog switched from a plan to neuter him to a plan to breed him. And there were several repetitions of both dogs just being fabulous.... 

And we go on to talking about sharing pictures and treating this the same way the planned litters are treated. And that's my problem. 

I don't want people to think it's OK to let accidents happen. 

I hate being negative and coming off like a jerk for being the only saying what should be said. But there it is. It's better than the wall of silence which otherwise (and will and has) be offered.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Megora said:


> I read the first post where she had been planning to breed this dog anyway. And the owners of the male dog switched from a plan to neuter him to a plan to breed him. And there were several repetitions of both dogs just being fabulous....
> 
> And we go on to talking about sharing pictures and treating this the same way the planned litters are treated. And that's my problem.
> 
> ...


No one is suggesting it's ok. And contrary to what you may believe this WAS NOT a planned event. That however does not mean that I cannot learn from this experience and that I should not be able to get any joy out of it. It's not ideal, no. But regardless, the situation still exists. 

It's ok if everyone isn't thrilled, to be honest, I am one of those people. I am, however, going to do what I do best and that is turn it into something positive. If you are so bothered, you are welcome to steer clear of this post. No one is making you come back. Again, take care.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Additionally if one of my children came to me as an adult and announced they were pregnant and it was unplanned I'd still love my grandchild just the same, and if this were a baby forum people would still want to see pictures.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Human life is very different moral issue. People should not cloud or blur the lines between the choices we make for our dogs and the choices that we as human beings make regarding human life.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

I agree, however I also have a different view in regards to a termination in a dog. My vet advised the best course of action if I went down that path was to spay and this wasn't the path I wanted to go down. Each to their own I suppose.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Phoebegirl said:


> I agree, however I also have a different view in regards to a termination in a dog. My vet advised the best course of action if I went down that path was to spay and this wasn't the path I wanted to go down. Each to their own I suppose.


Yeah... again. Abortion doesn't fly with me as far as human beings. Animals though, sometimes it is necessary depending on the impact on the dog's health and whether it can be done humanely.

I don't have a problem with that if the pregnancy had progressed to the point where the only safe way to terminate would be spaying the dog. And I think I was one of those where somebody had a bulldog mix carrying a litter and it was recommended aborting the litter - this at a time when the mom was very definitely carrying puppies by that time. I was one of those saying - ABSOLUTELY let her have her puppies. 

Accidents do happen with experienced breeders and depending on what they happen with, I've heard of various methods to quickly end the pregnancy early on. 

I do hope the person who you purchased Phoebe from comes around to offer you assistance.... I guess if they are reputable, they should? 

And I'm glad you are spaying her after this so this doesn't happen again. Understand my reaction is something of a gut reaction after seeing other people come on here with accidental litters.... and then they have continued to breed the dogs after that. 

There is also the owner of the male dog who let their daughter take him over to play at your house while your dog was in heat. That especially had flames shooting out my ears because of the lack of responsibility of these people who are presumably going to breed that male dog again and again.... 

Anyway. Understand - the negativity and harsh words are meant in general at the situation. I do wish you and your family the very best.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Tbh I'm actually in the process of finding out more about this breeder. It seems she's registered through ANKC and if that's the case has certain responsibilities to uphold and if she doesn't get back to me I don't know how to deal with that aspect. With a bit of googling I believe they have had another litter so I'll email her on that email address and see how I go.

I don't know though, that there is much she can offer me though that cannot be offered through our vet or on here?


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Also, I am not interested in breeding her again. I was only ever considering once anyway. After this experience, I would consider breeding again with a bitch that was papered and registered through ANKC. I'd want more land too. I'd love to also first learn more about the genetics side. Think that would be really interesting.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Was going to build a whelping box and still may, but have been offered one that is heated. Its made of melamine. Upon researching I've found numerous suggestions that cleaning with one part bleach to 32 parts water will kill bacteria including parvo. Thoughts on cleaning to a high hygenic level please?


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Hi all,

Miss Phoebe is getting closer and closer and we have 12 days to go until the 30th of May (which marks the average of 63 days). She's getting bigger although still not huge. She's very chilled out still and though she has prominent nipple swelling now and a little big of a waddle she appears still quite comfortable. 

The whelping box materials have all been purchased and I have a friend taking them in to his work on Monday to cut to size so I can assemble on Monday night and Tuesday. I'm going to start charting temperature on Monday too and I pick up our vet bed on Monday also. We have an Xray booked next Friday (7 days out, so day 56).

She's sleeping inside unless it's warm in which case she's outside, but I'm very aware now of the fact that she could potentially deliver outside and I want to avoid that. So..... at what point would it be suggested that I begin keeping her inside 24/7?

Also for those of you who have had litters, what day did your girl whelp? This is more of a curiosity question as I know there is no hard and fast rule.


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Phoebegirl said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Miss Phoebe is getting closer and closer and we have 12 days to go until the 30th of May (which marks the average of 63 days). She's getting bigger although still not huge. She's very chilled out still and though she has prominent nipple swelling now and a little big of a waddle she appears still quite comfortable.
> 
> ...


They usually go on day 64. I would keep her indoors unless you are supervising her outside. I can't imagine she would want to give birth outdoors, although one of the rescues wanted to give birth in a hole she dug outside once. 

I don't do X-rays on my girls because I don't want to elevate cancer risks, and imho there is no reason to do it. 

She will likely be very hot during the whelping, so plan on having a fan for her and heating pads for the puppies. 

I would also try to get her sleeping in the whelping box if you can so that she will be used to it.

Sorry this is so fragmented, I am too tired to write well right now.

Wishing you the best!


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## ashleylp (Jul 23, 2011)

I had a pregnant rescue bulldog mix a few months back. She tried to drop her first puppy while outside. I'd start keeping her inside from now on.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Eowyn said:


> They usually go on day 64. I would keep her indoors unless you are supervising her outside. I can't imagine she would want to give birth outdoors, although one of the rescues wanted to give birth in a hole she dug outside once.
> 
> I don't do X-rays on my girls because I don't want to elevate cancer risks, and imho there is no reason to do it.
> 
> ...


Lol. All good. I know how you feel, I'm not well at the moment and feel like I could sleep for a month! 

She is usually not a digger, except to bury her toys (though she only digs a hole big enough for said toy and no bigger), but this past week she's been digging heaps and always in the same place, right near the window near the kitchen. She's digging a good foot down beside the slab foundation, and lays in it. Typical nesting behaviour.

She wants to be in all the time and I have a hard time getting her to go outside now, unless I go out first, then she's my little cling wrap dog who is right at my side. I think I'll keep her in from tuesday, that's when the whelping box will be done. I've made it 1.6 x 1.1 so lovely and big, and big enough for me to cuddle up in there to get her accustomed to it.

Shouldn't be hard if I'm in there, she's developed a habit of jumping up on my bed, under the covers, and putting her head on the pillow of DH. Then she rests her paw on my hand amd goes to sleep. She's such a cutie.

In regards to the fan, interesting advice, hadn't heard that! Pulled it out this morning and its in the garage ready to go, alongside a heater. We have central heating and a great evaporative cooling system too so I can set the thermostat at 20 like it usually is and just add the fan like you said.

Having given birth to 4 kids myself I know the importance of keeping fluid levels high (helps hydration and therefore keeps blood pressure regulated, increasing overall stability etc), so I'll offer ice chips and water etc. Can I offer an electrolyte drink when she's labouring? Or is there an appropriate human version that I may be able to buy at my local supermarket? Maybe I'll freeze some chicken stock into ice cubes to encourage her (have to be sodium free though I suppose so it doesn't actually dehydrate)?

Sorry if I'm repeating, I'm just one of those people who has to know every little detail or scenario. Part of my OCD. You should hear the questions when a gf is telling me a story! Hehe

Re the heating pads..... how big should I need in a 1.6 x 1.1 box?

Re the vet bed..... paper goes underneath? After she's done birthing all pups should I have a back up to wash the one she whelped on?

Last thing for the minute.... I have seen/read many breeder blogs who let their bitch clean each pup, bond for a few mins and have a quick feed, then place the pups out of the way in a warm tub or something, but right next to mum. I was under the impression that it was best to let them stay with mum unless she needs her space to move if she wants to, & provide as less intervention as possible unless she's struggling. Which option do people prefer? Which is best?


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

ashleylp said:


> I had a pregnant rescue bulldog mix a few months back. She tried to drop her first puppy while outside. I'd start keeping her inside from now on.


I'm familiar with your story, in fact it was one of the first stories I read here! You lost one of your pups when mumma stepped on him yes? Green puppy from memory? So sad.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Oooh I forgot to mention that last week we switched her over to Hills Science Diet Puppy (She was on the adult), but she doesn't love it. She seems to not have an appetite but if I offer her safe human food left overs, which she's always loved, she wolfs it down. Just want to make sure she's getting enough calories. I've even tried gravy in her dry food, she just sucks it off each piece of kibble and then spits the kibble out. She's never been a food oriented dog. When I feed her she takes 24 hours to finish, she's always just snacked throughout the day.

Ideas?


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Miss Phoebe stretching out when I took her to the toilet.


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Phoebegirl said:


> Re the heating pads..... how big should I need in a 1.6 x 1.1 box?
> 
> Re the vet bed..... paper goes underneath? After she's done birthing all pups should I have a back up to wash the one she whelped on?
> 
> Last thing for the minute.... I have seen/read many breeder blogs who let their bitch clean each pup, bond for a few mins and have a quick feed, then place the pups out of the way in a warm tub or something, but right next to mum. I was under the impression that it was best to let them stay with mum unless she needs her space to move if she wants to, & provide as less intervention as possible unless she's struggling. Which option do people prefer? Which is best?


I don't know about the electrolyte water, hopefully someone else will chime in on that. 

The size of the heating pads is more what you prefer.

I leave the puppies with the mom if I can. If I can't it's usually because momma wants to circle or move where she may step on or hurt a puppy. 

You may want to offer her both the puppy food and her old food (I would rather see her on adult food and eating than on puppy food and not eating). Some girls are picky eaters at the end of the pregnancy. If you need to you can feed people food if that is what it takes to get her eating.


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Towards the end Lilly didnt want to eat, so we tried lots of things. It was important for her to eat, so did frequent small meals. Do you what you can to entice her, just stay away from pork products(ie. ham) turkey..things that are high in fat. Dont want to make her sick or have her get pancreatitis. 
In the whelping box, kept a heating pad (it was made for puppies) in a corner. Just make sure if you use a human one keep it in low with a towel/blanket covering it. Making sure they are warm enough is one of the most important things for the first 2-3 weeks. 
I let mine stay with Lilly when she is labor. Nursing helps stimulate contractions and they all sucked pretty much after they were cleaned up. I only moved them if she was concentrating on the one coming out and others were at risk for being stepped on ..but that was not very often as hers kind of "flew" out. I think because she had the biggest one first helped pave the way for the others. 
Lilly was digging alot more towards the end. Thats what they would do in the "wild" if they need a place. She was also more clingy. She took the box pretty good. Feed her in there, let her sleep in there at night or just snuggle in the box with her to get her use to it. 

As far as electorlytes..it wont hurt but the main thing is offering her water/food or what my breeder told me was honey, vanilla ice cream, yogurt..those things are more for when they are in labor. Suppose to help with getting energy (sugar) and calcium (helps with contractions too). So I had on hand all of them. I used them a little as she had a long pre-labor and was worried she was out of energy by the time of the actual labor/delivery. 
I didnt clean up the box until the end..i would get rid of the really nasty towels.but i used puppy pads. I put them under her for when each pup was coming. Seemed to help cut down on the mess and you can just throw them away. 

Hope I got everything you asked..any other questions feel free to PM or ask here! Better to be prepared!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

That's a great help guys, thanks heaps. Can't believe this has gone so fast! While I'm sure it's going to be an amazing experience I'm kind of looking forward to 11 weeks time when everyone is healthy and happy and settled. I've gota lot of work ahead of me! 

Is it appropriate to display birth photo's and video's? Is that a thing people want to see?


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Phoebegirl said:


> That's a great help guys, thanks heaps. Can't believe this has gone so fast! While I'm sure it's going to be an amazing experience I'm kind of looking forward to 11 weeks time when everyone is healthy and happy and settled. I've gota lot of work ahead of me!
> 
> Is it appropriate to display birth photo's and video's? Is that a thing people want to see?


No duh! Do you honestly think we are helping you without wanting pictures and videos in return!?!?!? Heck yes we want them!!!!!


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Lol what Eowyn said!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Hahaha. Oh good! I wasn't sure on birth etiquette. I plan to have the video camera set up on a tripod and I have my photography loving ex hubby coming with his big DSLR to get some professional shots. I'm right into the biology side of things and think this will be amazing to witness! xo


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Phoebegirl said:


> Hahaha. Oh good! I wasn't sure on birth etiquette. I plan to have the video camera set up on a tripod and I have my photography loving ex hubby coming with his big DSLR to get some professional shots. I'm right into the biology side of things and think this will be amazing to witness! xo


If you are posting a video of the actual birthing part you may want to warn people in case they get grossed out but anything else you can just post.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Cool, will do! &#55357;&#56842;


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Phoebegirl said:


> Oooh I forgot to mention that last week we switched her over to Hills Science Diet Puppy (She was on the adult), but she doesn't love it. She seems to not have an appetite but if I offer her safe human food left overs, which she's always loved, she wolfs it down. Just want to make sure she's getting enough calories. I've even tried gravy in her dry food, she just sucks it off each piece of kibble and then spits the kibble out. She's never been a food oriented dog. When I feed her she takes 24 hours to finish, she's always just snacked throughout the day.
> 
> Ideas?


You really do need to find a food she likes and will eat readily, she will have to have loads of extra food and calories while she is nursing. You have a little time to try some and find one she likes before babies are here.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

mylissyk said:


> You really do need to find a food she likes and will eat readily, she will have to have loads of extra food and calories while she is nursing. You have a little time to try some and find one she likes before babies are here.


Yeah I know. Might try mixing a little mince through it.


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## kellyguy (Mar 5, 2014)

"you may want to warn people in case they get grossed out"
That's probably what most people would feel. I however think everyone should actually get the experience of helping with the birth of a litter of puppies. People are too insulated from reality.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

kellyguy said:


> "you may want to warn people in case they get grossed out"
> That's probably what most people would feel. I however think everyone should actually get the experience of helping with the birth of a litter of puppies. People are too insulated from reality.


Lol. Perhaps! I'll put some kind of warning just in case. Blood and mess doesn't bother me but I'm sure some peeps might not cope well.


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Just now tuning in to this stream.. Now I'll be following to watch for the babies. Hope you'll post X-ray or US pictures when you have them. I love watching the babies get born and grow.


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## MommyCox (Jan 6, 2014)

Praying for a good and safe delivery. Wonderful job turning a bad situation into a better one. I love reading about puppies but I know I could never do that. I would be too pessimistic and panicky so I just like to follow stories from a distance haha! Good luck!!!


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Sending best wishes your way for a blessed safe successful delivery.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Thanks guys! Not long to go! I've finished the whelping box tonight, made it from scratch all by myself, tbh I'm totally proud of it, lol. Just got to pop in the rails over the weekend and attach the door with hinges (I bought the wrong size hinges so I'll swap them over the weekend. It's lovely and big and she's pretty happy with it. She's inside 22 hours a day now too and only outside while supervised. 

We're almost ready!


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## kellyguy (Mar 5, 2014)

Looks like you could launch a sucessful line of designer whelping boxes. Very nice.


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## PiratesAndPups (Sep 24, 2013)

Well done! That box looks awesome. Look's like all you need now is some puppies to fill it.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

kellyguy said:


> Looks like you could launch a sucessful line of designer whelping boxes. Very nice.


I don't know if I'd have the time with 4 kids, but it's something is consider down the track, they can be SO expensive here!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

PiratesAndPups said:


> Well done! That box looks awesome. Look's like all you need now is some puppies to fill it.


Thank you! I'm super proud, lol. Though it may have backfired. DH says he thinks I should save my money and build a cubby house for the kids now instead of buying one! :doh:


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

OMGoodness I had to share this! It is 1.45am here in Melbourne, Australia. I was just about to go to bed and did a quick check on Miss Phoebe in her new whelping box. She was fast asleep so I quietly snuck up and just say and watched her belly and I saw kicks!!!! So cool! I then put my hand on her tum and totally got kicked by some teeny paws inside! Absolutely incredible.


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## cris (Jan 24, 2014)

Oh wow... That's amazing! Also, sweet looking whelping box! Hope everything is going well, I'm excited to see the pups!

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

cris said:


> Oh wow... That's amazing! Also, sweet looking whelping box! Hope everything is going well, I'm excited to see the pups!
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Thank you. I'm putting the rails in over the weekend. Pretty exciting!


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

When is the due date again?  I am getting excited!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Hi all, we're at 8 weeks-ish now and Miss Phoebe has a check up today at our vet. She's doing beautifully. We may or may not have an xray done, I know there are pro's and con's and have researched both options. My vet is more inclined as we are coming up on a public holiday here and he usually suggests it around those times in case they are closed. I already have two 24 hour back up vets available in the next towns, but I'm going to speak to him further about the to xray/not to xray issue when we are there today.

Oh also I have started giving her a product called NUTRIGEL. (From the pet network website) "NUTRIGEL is a high energy vitamin concentrate which is a highly palatable and recommended for the diets of dogs and cats where levels may be low. Can be used to stimulate appetite. Provides approximately 1500 kilojoules of metabolizable energy per 100gms." 

It might be a bit expensive but it seems to be helping her appetite (although this could be coincidental with the timing of the pregnancy). Either way it's a great boost for her nutritionally and very suitable for pregnancy.

Will be back later to update after the vet.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Eowyn said:


> When is the due date again?  I am getting excited!


I think I miscalculated in my post the other day. It happened on March 30, so 63 days or 9 weeks makes it Sunday June 1st. It's Friday morning here in Melbourne, so potentially next weekend, though I'm ready anytime. My guess is June 2nd. 

We (my family) all sat down at dinner last night and made a list of our guesses and what we thought in regards to make/female split. Wonder how we'll go?! Lol


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Ok so it looks like there's 3.... possibly 4, but I'm guessing it will be three. She's in perfect health and our vet is very happy with her progression. So far so good.


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Just catching up today--love the box and it sounds as if Miss Phoebe is in great shape. It's probably good if it's a small litter don't you think? Since it's the first time out for all concerned. I will look forward to baby pictures soon!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

OutWest said:


> Just catching up today--love the box and it sounds as if Miss Phoebe is in great shape. It's probably good if it's a small litter don't you think? Since it's the first time out for all concerned. I will look forward to baby pictures soon!


Hey there! Definitely agree. Will be much easier to home 2 than 5 or 6 (we will have one here). Much less clean up, much easier for mumma to be to handle, easier for pups to feed, all good.

My only concern is that as there are fewer they could possibly be bigger, which is great for their health, not so lovely to birth though. Still, nothing I can do about that but hope and pray everything goes beautifully. And in the case that it doesn't I'm prepared for that as much as I can be.


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Have you started taking temps? Cant wait to see them!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

OnMyWay2MyDreams said:


> Have you started taking temps? Cant wait to see them!


Yep have started. All normal so far, but last night I was cleaning her nipples (they were grubby) and they were producing milk! Also when she does a wee there seems to be a little milky coloured discharge. Anyone know what this means?


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Phoebegirl said:


> Yep have started. All normal so far, but last night I was cleaning her nipples (they were grubby) and they were producing milk! Also when she does a wee there seems to be a little milky coloured discharge. Anyone know what this means?


I don't have a clue--never have whelped baby dogs! But wanted to say GOOD LUCK! I hope all goes well. I'll be watching for pictures.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Phoebegirl said:


> Yep have started. All normal so far, but last night I was cleaning her nipples (they were grubby) and they were producing milk! Also when she does a wee there seems to be a little milky coloured discharge. Anyone know what this means?


Also her regular temp runs around 99.2 - 99.9. This is about right, right? She's very sleepy at the moment. Just wants to lay about all day! Lol


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

That's a low regular temp.Dogs run 101.5 or so. When she drops down below 99 (or in her low normal case, maybe 98) know you have puppies coming in the next 12-24 hours. She'll pant for what will seem like an eternity- and stare- wishing you good luck!


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Lilly had a slight discharge..think mucous plug..like in humans. Milk is also a good sign. Lilly was around 99-100 and then took an obvious dip. It can go down, then shoot up then go down again. I think I missed the shooting up part..but it was about 24 hours (i think) and then she started in labor..


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

OnMyWay2MyDreams said:


> Lilly had a slight discharge..think mucous plug..like in humans. Milk is also a good sign. Lilly was around 99-100 and then took an obvious dip. It can go down, then shoot up then go down again. I think I missed the shooting up part..but it was about 24 hours (i think) and then she started in labor..


Oh wow, could be soon then! I'm starting to worry a little as it gets closer. That's normal I'm sure but still worrying none the less! Was 99.9, 99.2, 99.9 & tonight 100.0.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

We're extra sleepy today and have taken to sleeping half in, half out of our bed in the whelping box. Must be more comfortable to stretch out in. Rails are in and ready for puppies.


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Phoebegirl said:


> Oh wow, could be soon then! I'm starting to worry a little as it gets closer. That's normal I'm sure but still worrying none the less! Was 99.9, 99.2, 99.9 & tonight 100.0.


Oh no..not quite yet..it will be obvious drop..like 96-97.. You have some more time!


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Phoebegirl said:


> We're extra sleepy today and have taken to sleeping half in, half out of our bed in the whelping box. Must be more comfortable to stretch out in. Rails are in and ready for puppies.


Aww..so sweet! Looks like the bed may need to go. She looks comfy in there! Great looking box!


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

The waiting is hard, even from a distance. You must be going crazy right now waiting!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

OnMyWay2MyDreams said:


> Oh no..not quite yet..it will be obvious drop..like 96-97.. You have some more time!


I agree. I initially guessed tuesday the 2nd but now I think it will be Sunday or Monday, probably Monday because my daughter has exams on Monday and Tuesday (Murphy's law, most inconvenient time, lol).

Her standard is around 99 in the morning and 100 in the evening. She's not bothered too much by the temp checks but the look on her face is priceless when we first put the thermometer in place.... but if I hear dh giggle and say "poor girl, maybe we should see how you like it" one more time, there's a good chance I'll rehome him first! :uhoh:


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

OnMyWay2MyDreams said:


> Aww..so sweet! Looks like the bed may need to go. She looks comfy in there! Great looking box!


Haha. Thanks sweets, she loves her "room". I have vetbed cut to shape too but it was in the wash to be disinfected in this pic. I'm planning on letting her give birth on a heap of white towels that I'll pop in when first signs of labour begin, so we'll loose the bed and rails then and when we think she's done I'll whip them out and pop in the freshly laundered vetbed and rails will go straight back in.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Eowyn said:


> The waiting is hard, even from a distance. You must be going crazy right now waiting!


I sooooo am!! I was the same with all 4 of my children and went overdue with every. single. one! Grrrr! Lol. 

I'm actually ok for another days wait. Today miss 3, Amelie, told me she felt sick when we were driving to swimming. She then proceeded to projectile vomit all over herself and her carseat, causing my 9yo son, Mason, to start gagging in the seat beside her as I climbed through to the back (we have a Chrysler Grand Voyager which I think are known as Dodge Caravans in the USA?) trying to search for whatever I could find to catch and further vomit. 

A bath, 2 loads of washing and a carseat hose down later, we're good. Never work with kids or animals.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

I forgot to put up the u/s pic! :doh: Three puppies in the U/S that we can see, vet is 90 - 95%.

No signs of any impending labour yet, besides a lot of licking down there, but she's becoming increasingly cheeky, jumping up on my new WHITE couch (we put a blanket on there to keep it clean).


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

*Temp Readings*

She's licking a lot more, bit of cloudy discharge & constantly sleeping unless I move out of the room, then she's sticking to me like glue (can't even make a cup of tea without her following me). Did a temp check this morning and decided to do another one just now. She's at 98.4, lowest it's been so far, but then she couldn't be less active today so could just be that.

DH has collected the calcium supplement, nutridrops and a hemostat this morning (we were waiting for them to be back in stock. 

Anyway, have added her temp chart for those interested. I'll dp another check before bed tonight and will continue on three checks a day as I've done today. My biggest dilemma is that I don't just want to go to bed tonight in case she goes in the night. I guess there'll be more signs like panting heavily, digging etc?


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

If it continues to go down i will say your getting close! I slept on the couch (was in the room next to her room). That way I could hear if she started. I am sure she would have come got me but wanted to make sure she had the pups in the box and not my bed (like happened to one of my clients).


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

I think it's nearly time!!??


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## MommyCox (Jan 6, 2014)

Sure looks that way with the temp drop!!! Yay! Praying for an amazing labor and delivery for your girl! Goodluck!


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## cris (Jan 24, 2014)

Good luck! Hope it goes smoothly and safely! 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Thanks guys. I'm still thinking it will be Monday. Perhaps early hours but I still guess the 2nd, lol. No panting or anything yet. She's just chilling in her whelping box.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Still nothing. No further signs as yet. Official due date is tomorrow (Sunday June 1st). Winter babies.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Uuurgh! This waiting is hard!


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Oh my..it will be soon! Get your rest now..it usually happens at night..good luck!


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Prayers for a smooth delivery and healthy babies. 

Looking forward to your update and hopefully seeing lots of pictures!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Wanted to ask a question about doggy breast milk. Having breastfed all 4 of my children for a total of 65 months, I know science says breast is best where available, especially colostrum. Mum's can freeze breast milk and it is almost as nutritious as straight from the tap, and still better nutritionally than formula. 

So, I was wondering, can you do the same with dogs? Hypothetical question really, but just wondering if you were able to hand express from a dam can you freeze and give to a pup that wasn't feeding well? Or as a back up if the dam can't feed (medical emergency or refusal to feed etc)?


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

I dont know about freezing it and you would get small amounts with hand expressing (obviously compared to humans). Unless the pup has cleft lip/palate they should be able to nurse on their own. Now if you wind up with a big litter you can move pups around to make sure the smaller ones get the "better" milk from the larger breasts. The best milk for them is the first 12-24 hours and in all reality a can of good puppy formula would be much eaiser than going through the steps of hand expressing especially if momma isnt producing enough. I just bought a can of puppy formula and feeding kit just in case. I didnt need it for the pups but ended up using it momma to help her produce more milk but by that time I started weaning them anyways.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Cool. Wasn't suggesting it was just curious from a scientific point of view. Lol. Interesting concept though!


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## kellyguy (Mar 5, 2014)

Waiting for the event? Any news?


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

kellyguy said:


> Waiting for the event? Any news?


Nothing yet! A bit of panting and mucous and very unsettled today. It's day 64 in a couple of hours. Will be going to the vet for a check up tomorrow afternoon if it's not happened by then.


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Well??? Any more news??


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## teddyweb (May 30, 2014)

Looking forward to seeing a piccy!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Ok..... Nope! Spoke to the vet yesterday and he said fresh sperm live up to 7 days. Even though she tied on march 30 she may not have ovulated until 3, 4 or 5 days after that so technically she could be still on day 62 or 63 now. He is still having me check her temp 3 times a day to make sure she's not got any infection but he's happy with her health, she's eating and wagging her tail and happy. Plan is to give her until the end of the week. If she's not gone by Friday it's c section time.

In saying that she had a temp drop this morning down to 97.1 and has been in the 97's all day. She's digging in the garden and panting heaps so I'm guessing in first stage labour. She's constantly standing up and turning in circles and sitting down again. Poor girl. I'm hoping pups will be here within 24 hours.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

This was half an hour ago. Excuse the quality, it's 11.30 pm here and my phone flash isn't fabulous!


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

while you still can do it easily, you should cut the hair from around her nipples and her vulva- and keep an eye on the temp for the big drop, indicating her progesterone levels are down and impending birth. I'd keep her from the garden!!


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## PiratesAndPups (Sep 24, 2013)

Is the digging some sort of nesting behavior?


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Prism Goldens said:


> while you still can do it easily, you should cut the hair from around her nipples and her vulva- and keep an eye on the temp for the big drop, indicating her progesterone levels are down and impending birth. I'd keep her from the garden!!


She's lost most of the hair already so that helps, a big, mostly bald, belly. Vulva is swollen so that's a good sign! Garden digging is at a stand still now because I told her to stop so she has.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

PiratesAndPups said:


> Is the digging some sort of nesting behavior?


Yep sure is!


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Any puppies yet?

If you haven't done so, it's time to get her into the whelping box. Let her out long enough to potty, then back in the box until whelping is over.


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## azzure (Dec 10, 2011)

Oh my gosh, just stumbled across this thread; how thrilling!!! I follow the Warrior Canine Connection on explore.com; have waited through the births of several litters of Lab and Golden service dogs now. 

Prayers that all goes well. Sounds like it's time.


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Any puppies yet? Praying for safe, easy labor with healthy puppies and momma dog!


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Yup..box time ..its getting close! Sleep next too it..once you see her actively straining/pushing then the real fun begins! Good luck!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Sorry I've been absent, I've been sitting with her. First off, no puppies yet. It's 1.50pm here and she's been panting really heavily since about 2am. She's whining and digging in the box and so tired. Poor girl was falling asleep standing up! That was a bit funny, lol. I'm giving her some honey and gave her 3 lolly snakes (her favourite), and she has access too water in her whelping box and sips occasionally. I'm offering ice too but she's not keen right now.

Overall she's coping well, provided one of us is touching her, lol. Even holding her paw. So..... we wait. She's been outside half an hour ago and just wants to dig and cries when I don't let her. She knows she needs too and I'm SURE in her mind she's just desperate to tell me she needs to but doesn't know why she does. I wonder if she does know?

Will be back! xo


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Her water just broke. She's in the whelping box and flat out refusing to move an inch from her position!


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## SandyK (Mar 20, 2011)

Good luck...hope everything goes smoothly!!


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## Bwilson (Mar 25, 2014)

Good luck hope all goes well.


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## Bwilson (Mar 25, 2014)

I shouldn't have checked this thread I knew it was close to her date. I have a feeling I will have trouble sleeping waiting on the news that all is well. Hope all is going ok.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Thanks guys. She's started straining now. It's all happening.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

*2 puppies are here!*

Its a boy and a girl so far! Had some drama but all good now and waiting on number 3. Will update when I can. Boy was first and BIG!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

*2 puppies are here!*

Its a boy and a girl so far! Had some drama but all good now and waiting on number 3. Will update when I can. Boy was first and BIG!


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

They're beautiful! Hope the rest of her labor goes smoothly.


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Sorry missed your PM..darn time difference! Looks like she is well on her way! Yay! 

Between pups ideally no more than an hour, but that is also barring if she is really contracting/pushing for that long and no pup. If she is resting than thats fine too. Hoping she has a fast delivery like Lilly did.,they seemed to just fly out of her! Lol 

Cant wait to see how many she ends up having!


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## MaggieandBailey (Nov 26, 2013)

Congratulations! Sweet babies 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## MommyCox (Jan 6, 2014)

So cute! Hope everything went well!! What a nice color difference in them too! I bet you're exhausted!! Hope Momma and babies are doing well


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

*We have three bouncing baby boys!!!!*

Ok they're all here! Uuurgh! I'm so deliriously happy and tired, lol.

Will explain the labour stories later on but for now..... Bluey was the biggest at around 630 grams! Blacky was 565grams and Master Red was 620grams. Big boys!!!


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Congratulations, they're beautiful.

Hope mom and babies are all doing well today and you can get some rest.


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## Bwilson (Mar 25, 2014)

Congratulations. Hope all are doing well and everyone gets some sleep after this.


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## abradshaw71 (Jan 13, 2014)

Yay! Glad everything went okay. The waiting is finally over. Now, time to enjoy watching these babies grow. Phoebe looks tired, but looks like she's being a very good momma.


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## kellyguy (Mar 5, 2014)

Congratulations. Beautiful pups. Which is the girl?


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Oh one critical thing I forgot. I was told no 2 was a girl because I didn't look immediately I was just getting everything else sorted. Then an hour later when I went to weigh and have a check of the umbilicus, I saw a penis. Straight away but ex hubby missed it coz he didn't realise what he was looking at. So..... no girls, just three boys!


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

They are so cute! I wish I could hold them!


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## PiratesAndPups (Sep 24, 2013)

Hurray! I'm glag they're all healthy and happy. Phoebe looks happy to be a mom!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Thanks guys, they are perfect! How long do people do a 24 hour watch? Thinking a week but some have suggested 2 - 3 days is enough?


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## Damaris (Mar 18, 2014)

Congrats!! It was great following your story! How exciting!!


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## CStrong73 (Jun 11, 2012)

Congratulations!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Any suggestions on names besides black, pale blue and bright blue? 

The kids and I were thinking temporary names of maybe the following (in random order), but WOULD LOVE some more ideas! &#55357;&#56842;

1. Dean, Frank & Sammy (surname is davis so he'd be sammy davis jnr)

2. Kevin, Joe & Nick

3. Mario, Luigi and Yoshi

4. Alvin, Simon & Theodore


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Phoebegirl said:


> Any suggestions on names besides black, pale blue and bright blue?
> 
> The kids and I were thinking temporary names of maybe the following (in random order), but WOULD LOVE some more ideas! ��
> 
> ...


How about Larry, Moe and Curly?


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Huey, Dewey and Louie


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Wow..only 3.. And all boys! You have lots of possibilities with names! I do like Swamps suggestion..course I am biased to Disney names! ;-) 

They look really good! Momma will have plenty of milk for them! Cant wait to see more pics! Congrats and get your rest! I took a week off for my litter when they were born, mainly because I wasnt sure how Lilly would do and just in case something did go wrong..that first week or two is very fragile. I slept out on the couch until they were like 4 weeks old too just in case Momma needed something or I could hear if any of the pups were crying too. I also wanted to make sure they were all big enough to get around good in the box. 

Have fun with them..the weeks fly by fast!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Copy of my message to friends & family (hence the explainations).

Thank you for all of your congratulations and well wishes on the birth of the pups and the loss off little Perry. I haven't had a chance to go through it all so for those of you that are interested here's a brief account of how it went down.

Phoebe started panting and digging and becoming restless and ended up doing that from about 8.30pm on Wednesday night until first signs of pushing at about 3pm on Thursday. They shouldn't be actively straining or pushing for more than an hour but as she was on again off again (and with constant vet communication) we waited and waited..... and waited, until about 4.50pm when she started presenting a puppy (Ferb). He came out face first with his sack broken. For the LONGEST 5 minutes, only his face was out, and he was licking his little lips. After 5 minutes I was not prepared to wait as she was getting distressed. I could see he was BIG, so knew she needed some help. I reached in the make sure the cord was not around his neck, which is wasn't, and so with the next contraction I gripped him carefully with a towel and pulled him out the way our vet had explained.

Nothing..... no breathing, no pink colour, no activity. I offered him to Phoebe but she was tired and confused and not very interested and I didn't have time to mess around so I clamped his cord and did a bit of a drop a good 10 times. Still nothing. I cut the cord and did it another 5 times while Brett calmed Phoebe and Craig called the vet to tell him we were 3 minutes away.

I wrapped him in a blanket and rubbed HARD (you can't kill a dead puppy) to stimulate him, all while I was running to the car. Brett drove (Craig stayed home with the kids and Phoebe) and on the way I started CPR. Several puffs of mouth to mouth had him now gasping but still now cry so I kept going and rubbing and, yes, panicking. 

We pulled in at the vet (I'm pretty sure I jumped out of the moving car, in my socks because I'd had no time for shoes) & ran in. The vet nurse grabbed him and assured me he'd started breathing and was pinking up. I'd revived him, thank god!

Our vet came out and rushed me into a consult room where we gave him oxygen straight away and he started crying. Relief!

At this stage Craig called Brett (I hadn't taken my phone) to tell him another was coming. It was 5.20pm. We wrapped up a squirmy, pink little Ferb and thanked the vet and jumped back in the car. 2 mins away from home we got a text saying I was needed NOW. We pulled in and again, I ran down to the house. There was another pup just born, Perry. Ferb was offered to Phoebe who licked him while he strongly protested. In this time I clamped Perry and cut the cord. He was a bit stronger initially and seemed pink and fine. He was given to Phoebe also who licked him clean, and then they were placed next to her while they wiggly wormed up to Mumma for their first drink. Perry was born at 5.26pm.

As I wasn't there and there was a little panic, Craig and the kids thought he was a girl. I never looked because it didn't occur to me to, I was just happy he was feeding and happy.

An hour later Phoebs was still panting and contracting but not pushing actively so when our vet called us to check on her at 6.30pm between us we decided to let her just progress naturally.

At 8pm she started pushing actively and this time it was much more calm. She knew what she was doing now. 8.10pm she presented a little bubble of clear fluid (a puppy in it's sack). At 8.23 Phineas came out. Phoebe was much more interested this time so we moved the other pups to the warming box I'd created next to her face. THIS littke pup was strong! He was out but still attached to the placenta which was still inside Mumma. It didn't stop him from searching for milk! Problem was he couldn't get very far. After 3 more contractions and 10 minutes it was still inside her and attached to him outside so I decided to try and manipulate it out. Next contraction came and I gripped and gently tugged. It came out (along with crys of "Eeeewwww!" from the family, lol. He started to feed properly, we bought the other two back to feed, Phoebe detached him from his tightrope umbilicus and proceeded to clean up, and Brett bought me a glass of wine while Craig got the two of them a drink and the kids ooohed and aahhed over our new additions. 

I let them feed until they were done and had been cleaned by their proud Mumma & then got one of the boys to take her outside to go to the toilet while I pulled out the messy towels from the whelping box, sprayed in all down and disinfected it and put in the vetbed (the pink carpet stuff) and the rails. The pups stayed in the warming box throughout this.

Phoebe came back in with gusto when I gave the all clear and the door was opened.

Can't remember the time frame but Brett got dinner for everyone and they all ate, Craig had cuddles with the pups and said his goodbyes before he went home, I showered and Brett, Amey, Mase and Brooky settled down and went to bed while Piper and I stayed up to watch the three musketeers. 

All went well over the next 12 hours and before we knew it, it was 1pm on Thursday. We had weighed them the night before. Ferb was 630gm, Perry was 564gm and Phineas was 620gm. All big pups.

They were all doing well, Phoebs was settling into to motherhood beautifully, and we, despite the phenomenal fatigue, we're all good. Then it started to take a turn.....

At about 3pm we noticed that Perry was very lathargic and had a big belly. So we attempted to get Phoebe to clean him (new puppies need that licking stimulation to go to the toilet because they can't go on their own). She wasn't very enthuastic. I tried getting warm cotton balls and simulating what she does but to no avail. He was still moving but not much. I called my vet and arranged a 6pm checkup.

By 4.50pm I was really worried when he started gasping and I called Brett. He was 5 mins from home so I called Craig and he was on his way, threw some clean clothes on, put the puppies in the warming box and Phoebe on her lead. We hurried outside as Brett walked in and jumped in the car.

On the 5 minute trip to the vet he started to lose colour and his little lips and tongue went blue. I tried CPR but wasn't getting anything.

On arrival to the vet I grabbed him and rushed him in, where they started CPR and gave him oxygen. At this point I was a little hysterical and had to go outside before I threw up.

I sat outside and saw Brett in the waiting room with Phoebe and the other 2 pups as the vet walked out and shook his head. It's really just heartbreaking. After I composed myself and had a coffee the vet came in and explained that there was nothing anyone coukd have done. He just bloated too much and there's really no explanation as to why, it just happens. He explained that he likely inhaled fluid and went down hill from there, or possibly had gastric problems.

He also said if he'd checked them earlier in the day he probably would've given the all clear. This stuff happens FAST. He checked Mumma and gave her a shot of oxytocin (just as a precaution and to help her uterus contract), checked the pups and gave us the all clear to head home. Leaving without Perry was so hard..... it was a really awful thing to have to go through.

We got home and Craig had arrived just after we left. He told the kids what happened so everyone was in tears. 

After a lot of explaining and cuddles and tears, we had some dinner and weighed the two remaining puppies. On the up side Phineas had gained 77 grams and Ferb had gained a whopping 120 grams. 30 grams is good per day so this was fabulous news.

Piper and I stayed up through the night with them again, of course panicking at every little snooze fest they had. But they're fine. They're strong, healthy, heavy boys who wiggle around like worms and go from one nipple to the next when they drain one. We watched Ferb change over 5 times last night until he finally went to sleep.... on his Mumma's face! 

Phoebe is doing really well and we're being vigilant in the watch for mastitis or infection. She knows one is gone and every so often looks for him and cries, but that tends to wrap up pretty quickly when she hears the others need her.

She now sleeps in her bed outside the door of the whelping box and runs in to check them whenever they make the slightest noise. 

We will be keeping one with us, and that choice is going to be SO hard! The other little guy will be chosen go to a specially selected home when we see his personality come out in 5 or 6 weeks, and he'll go around 9 weeks. It will be decided on by which family fits his nature best and I'll have expectations that we have regular catch ups so I can enjoy watching him grow up in his new family.

So that's what's gone on in my last few days. Joy, panic, heartache, love and many tears, happy and sad. But it's all just part of this crazy thing we call life. xo


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

I'm so sorry about little Perry...it really does sound as if you did absolutely everything possible for him. Have fun with the two musketeers.... It sounds like Phoebe is a natural mom.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

She sure is. Thanks hun. It's been an exhausting few days. I've just thrown myself into the many loads of washing, bleaching the towels, cleaning the bunny hutch, cleaning the house stuff today to keep from the tears.


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Aww..so sorry to hear about Perry. I was hoping nothing happened as we hadnt heard from you.mThings can turn quickly, your vet was right, you did all you could. Doesnt make it any easier. :-( thats one of the reasons I wanted off after pups were born and why I slept next to their room. My hubby (and others) thought I was partially crazy for it..but you just never know.
I will send a prayer to keep Ferb and Phineas safe and healthy. Sounds like you will be keeping a watchful eye over them and Phoebe. If you have any questions dont hesistate to ask here or PM! So wish you werent in a different time zone.


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## cris (Jan 24, 2014)

Wow, what an exhausting few days it must've been! So sorry to hear about Perry  I'm glad Phineas and Ferb are doing well, it sounds like Phoebe is doing a great job. Hope things start to settle down and you get to enjoy these precious little moments along with your Phoebs!

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## PiratesAndPups (Sep 24, 2013)

Really sorry to hear about Perry, but unfortunately sometimes these things do happen, you did all you could've. Glad the other two are healthy and strong!


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## abradshaw71 (Jan 13, 2014)

So sorry to hear about Perry. That must have been so hard for all of you. I love the names you've picked and can't wait to see more picture of Phineas and Ferb! You're doing an excellent job. Give Phoebe lots of hugs from all of us.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Thanks everyone. Really means a lot to know I'm doing it all properly. Phineas put on another 2oz today and at just over 48 hours old is 27.5oz. Ferb is a guts and put on 4oz yesterday and 2 today and is currently 29oz! Going to have big boys I think! 

Latest issue is that there is one nipple under Miss Phoebe's back leg that they wont feed off no matter how much I try, and it's become very large and was getting hard. Start of mastitis. So..... having had this myself I've been massaging it and hand expressing from the back of the breast to the front and getting 5ml every two hours. Keeping a close eye on her but already is softer and she's not running a temp. I've refrigerated half of what I'm expressing to rub into the nipple if it cracks (been there myself and breast milk if magic stuff!). Other half I have to her. Pups are feeding heaps so no need to bother with messing with their feeding routine and introducing a syringe etc. Have been using warm compresses too.

If it gets worse as opposed to better I'll be straight to the vet for antibiotics to knock it on the head. Otherwise I'll just keep doing what I'm doing. Obviously being aware that the more a breast supplies the more it produces, so its a balance of expressing just enough to release any pressure but not too much that it wants to produce more. 

The little boys are so strong! They climb right over mummy and are doing push ups and even getting up on their back legs. Their paws and lips and gums are darkening up too and they wag their little tails, not just jerk them about, in just the last hour or two.

I'm just amazed on a scientific level as to how quickly progression is happening! It's incredible how quickly they grow and change. They are the little fur loves of my life. I want to keep them both! Lol

So far I've got two great options for homing one. He'll either go to my ex hubbys ex boss in the country who would spoil him rotten, or a police friend in the dog squad who actually trains pups from a young age. But it would be his personal pet and part of his pack. Good options!


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## MommyCox (Jan 6, 2014)

So sorry for your loss. RIP Perry <3
Hope the problem with Momma's one nipple resolves. I know the pain of waking up in pain because if was a few hours past a feeding haha so good job helping Phoebe stay out of that pain! Also know the even worse pain of cracked nipples. That happens to dogs too? Can they use the Lansinoh nipple cream? That stuff is just amazing. It's safe for babies but not sure about puppies! 

I'll be praying for the health of the big boys and Momma. Hope you get some rest this weekend. Can't wait to see some pictures when you have a chance!!  Thanks for keeping updated!!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Quick update, any signs of mastitis are gone with what I was doing so that's great. Phoebe is an incredible mother and adores her babies & Phineas and Ferb are doing wonderfully. They try to bark, they're paws and noses are turning black and they are now 5 days old. Ferb is 39oz and Phin is 36oz. Something tells me they're going to be BIG boys!!


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Pics are must now! So glad to hear they are doing well. Sounds like they will be big!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

For some reason I'm having trouble uploading from my phone, but Phoebe has an instagram. It's phoebethegolden and there's lots of pics there!


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

I'm so sorry for the passing of Perry, so heartbreaking. 

Great to hear Ferb and Phineas are doing so well and Phoebe's nipple is better. 
She sounds like an amazing mom. 

I'll check out your pics on Instagram.

ETA: Checked out your pictures, they're wonderful. Phoebe and her little ones are beautiful.


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

I am sorry to here about Perry, but am relieved to know that Phineas and Ferb are doing so well. I am about to go check out the instagram to see the pictures!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Puppies are doing really well. They are 2 weeks old today. Ferb is 4lb2oz and Phin is 3lb6oz. Had a bit of a scare with Phin and made a trip to our emergency vet because he was quite lethargic and lost an ounce instead of any gain but after full checks including blood tests it seems I'm just being a little over zealous. We have to put fatty on a diet though because according to the vet he's putting on too much weight (between 3 and 4oz a day).


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

I am catching up. Praying that all goes well from here on out.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

A few pics


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

MercyMom said:


> I am catching up. Praying that all goes well from here on out.


Thanks sweets. Me too! Just one more week until we get to the safe zone!


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Wow! What a story! I'm so sorry about Perry. I am so glad you were able to save Ferb's life. I pray that it is smooth sailing from here.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Phoebegirl said:


> A few pics


Awwww! Those pictures are so precious!


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

They are little chuncky monkeys! Of course with only having 2 there is no competition for food. Glad they are doing well. You will be breathe a little easier soon.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Ok so I'm hoping someone can shed some light on our little Phin. He's actually not that little but I'm concerned. 

Ferb was 22oz born, he's now 71 oz at 14 days old. He's a fatty and a guts!

Phin was 21.8oz at birth and on Sunday the 16th was 53oz. I noticed he was a little lethargic and was not hugely interested in feeding so I kept an eye on him but when he dropped on ounce in 24 hrs I panicked and took him into our local Animal Emergency Hospital (it was 9pm and they are 24hrs). Before I went in I gave him a little glucose water to make sure he was hydrated.

They took them and triaged them. An hour later I finally got to see a vet who had taken blood and said glucose was good and high in both and not to worry add long as he doesn't take nothing in 12hrs. To be safe I got some puppy formula which I am substituting in between mums feeds. I'm staying with him the whole feed and he's doing 8 - 10 mins every 4 - 5 hrs. 

I wormed them both today and I've also got him on nutridrops to give him extra kj and it's said to increase appetite. Now 24 hours on is back to what he was on Sunday and not losing but not gaining. He's a little sleepy but once he latches on he feeds strongly. He's almost walking too and a couple of his teeth are almost cut. Thoughts? Vet days is all ok because he's not a small pup and he has a bit of a buffer but he was gaining 2oz at least a day and now nothing. Help!


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Hmm.. Its hard not seeing him in person..but sounds like your major complaint is lethargy? Still eating right? How about bowel movements..is he having them pretty good? Part of it sounds like maybe he is a little constipated. How often is she nursing them? They can over eat..especially since they dont have competition.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

OnMyWay2MyDreams said:


> Hmm.. Its hard not seeing him in person..but sounds like your major complaint is lethargy? Still eating right? How about bowel movements..is he having them pretty good? Part of it sounds like maybe he is a little constipated. How often is she nursing them? They can over eat..especially since they dont have competition.


Um, I guess the lack of weight gain was my first concern. Still toileting fine. She nurses them every 3 or 4 hours. Xo


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Actually this morning it kind of sounds like he has a blocked nose.? Lungs were checked 24 hours ago and all clear.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

24 hours is a long time for newborns. Things can change drastically in just an afternoon. I would take him back to the vet.

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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

mylissyk said:


> 24 hours is a long time for newborns. Things can change drastically in just an afternoon. I would take him back to the vet.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I'm just waiting on a call back from our vet now.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Vet says not to stress but it's like he's forgotten how to stuck all of a sudden. He just searches for ages. He usually eventually finds one teat and has a good go at it, but it's getting him on. Really odd because he's never had this issue before.


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Their eyes are open right? That seems odd that he searches..when my pups eyes were open after a few days they really found the nipple. I wish I was of more help. I cant imagine what it going on...hope he is just a little off for a few days for some reason and will be right back on track soon.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

OnMyWay2MyDreams said:


> Their eyes are open right? That seems odd that he searches..when my pups eyes were open after a few days they really found the nipple. I wish I was of more help. I cant imagine what it going on...hope he is just a little off for a few days for some reason and will be right back on track soon.


His eyes are open but they don't feed with their eyes open. He finds the nipple OK but has trouble latching on. He's still weeing fine. Not sure about pooing. It's hard to tell because she licks them so much. I'm syringe feeding formula and getting it in but how much should I be happy with each feed and how often? I'm so stressed it's ridiculous. Going a bit crazy with worry. Spoke to the vet again today and they keep saying not to worry but I know this little pup and can't help but feel he's not himself.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Was concerned he might be constipated. At recommendation of a well versed golden breader I've become friends with, and back up from the local animal hospital, we did a 2cc enema. That had no effect so we tried again half an hour later, and he cleared it all out with a vengeance. Was watery at the start but then had a good couple of hard lumps and a two 3 - 4 cm dead worms (I wormed them yesterday at 2 weeks).

Hopefully this will help?


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Phoebegirl said:


> Vet says not to stress but it's like he's forgotten how to stuck all of a sudden. He just searches for ages. He usually eventually finds one teat and has a good go at it, but it's getting him on. Really odd because he's never had this issue before.


If he really does have a stuffy nose, his sense of smell may be off, which would make it hard for him to find the nipple.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

mylissyk said:


> If he really does have a stuffy nose, his sense of smell may be off, which would make it hard for him to find the nipple.


I was wondering that. Well the good news is he's gained 1.3oz in the last 3 hrs and found the nipple straight away and sucked aggressively for a good 12 minutes, moving across 4 nipples until he was done with each one. He cut three teeth today too so poor little guy might be a bit achy. Prayers that this is all uphill from here!


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

That sounds like better news. Sounds like he was constipated poor guy. It really throws them off plus with cutting teeth. Hoping he is on the mend now!


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Just now catching up. I hope everyone ends up ok! Praying for you, Phoebe and Phin! And Ferb.


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## Jleigh (May 18, 2014)

The puppies are adorable! Sorry to hear about perry. Sounds like your doing an amazing job. Great to know that even people who have never done it before can still do a great job! Thanks for the updates.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

PUPDATE 18 days old: Weigh in today, Phineas has gained 9oz in 42hrs. He's now 4lb even. Ferb is a whopping 5lb 4oz! 

Both pups have their eyes fully open, respond to noise and come over to a sound to investigate. They're both walking, wobbly little drunk stumbles but up on all fours. They both have 6 or 7 teeth, are growling and barking and wag their tails when we scratch their little noggens. 

They dream and run in their sleep, go to the toilet on their own (but Mumma still helps out of habit sometimes), and have just started to play fight each other and Mum in the last 24hrs. 

All is good in our little world. Thanks heaps fir the pearls of wisdom and the lovely words. You're all lovely. 

On a side note..... pretty unimpressed that 2 different vets and a specialist didn't pick up on the constipation issue when it is potentially and very likely what saved his little life! Also pretty happy with myself as a novice for picking it up so quickly and solving it with a round the clock syringe feedings and total of 10ccs of water. Just goes to show the endless research before they whelp pays off. Anyone who's thinking it might be fun to deliberately breed take note..... It may be usually all fine but do your research and be prepared for hard work and everything going pear shaped! I tell you what, human babies are FAR less complicated.


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Wow..big pups!! So glad to hear he is gaining. The cuteness of them will overwhelm you soon as they get more active. I loved when they started to play together. Would love to see more pics..when you get a chance..;-)


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

After a little investigation, the boys found a new friend in Bonnie the bunny.


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## abradshaw71 (Jan 13, 2014)

So cute. I'm glad the bunny likes them.


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## GoldenMum (Mar 15, 2010)

Those pictures are just precious of the boys with Bonnie! You're doing a great job with them!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

abradshaw71 said:


> So cute. I'm glad the bunny likes them.


Me too! Phoebe loves the bunnies so it's important that the bunnies and puppies can get to know each other too!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

GoldenMum said:


> Those pictures are just precious of the boys with Bonnie! You're doing a great job with them!


Thanks lovely. I am quite proud of how much I've learned through this experience. It's hard work but a lot of fun!


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Oh my goodness. That is just too cute. I'm glad Bonnie the bunny likes handing out with dogs. I love how those little fur balls will just cuddle right up to any warm living thing.


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

They are so cute with the bunny!


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Ok..so those are great pics!! So cute! They will grow up to love that bunny! They are looking so good! You are doing a fabulous job.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

The pictures with the bunny are just adorable! Cutest thing ever


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

The pups are just precious with Bonnie, love these pictures.


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

OutWest said:


> Oh my goodness. That is just too cute. I'm glad Bonnie the bunny likes handing out with dogs. I love how those little fur balls will just cuddle right up to any warm living thing.


They sure will! Such beautiful little monkeys!


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

OnMyWay2MyDreams said:


> Ok..so those are great pics!! So cute! They will grow up to love that bunny! They are looking so good! You are doing a fabulous job.


They sure will. We have 2 bunnies. Turns out Clyde was a girl, and we found this out on Saturday when I saw them doing that special bunny dance! Lol. 

Now I've learned so much in this whole breeding process and loved learning it all and we love our bunnies to pieces but I have NO interest on raising kits! Needless to say Miss Clyde was at the vet being desexed at 7.15am on Monday morning, lol. All recovered now and back to just 4 kids, 3 goldens and 2 bunnies. I'm thinking about a orangutan next. Thoughts? Hahaha


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## Phoebegirl (Oct 29, 2013)

Oh, they are the weeks today too. Mumma has taken to feeding standing up half the time and we had an escapee too so the door is going on the whelping box tomorrow!


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## Hsjwmom (May 29, 2014)

Oh my goodness, such cute little butterballs!!


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