# training plans for the week of Dec. 11 to 17



## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Drivin driving driving,showing showing and then driving again...ugh..


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Pheasant Hunting, pheasant hunting, pheasant hunting and the occasional picture.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Ooh...I wanna go hunting too! I have to finish my Hunter's Ed class this week--Mon, Tue, and Thursday night with Saturday field day.

Trying to find time to take a lesson from a pro trainer...well I have been trying to go for the last several months at least once with my friends but timing has never worked out for me. If you venture onto RTF you may know him as Pete.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

Tomorrow we are going out to some casting exercises and I really want to try that BB Blind that Evan posted up and some honor drills. 

monday through the week I will contintue to work on whistle sits and whoa. Going to do some in a new area with distractions.

BaWaaJige seems to have the whole swing into heal postition down but I want to do some in the park in Walker next week to see how he is with distractions.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

General V said:


> Tomorrow we are going out to some casting exercises and I really want to try that BB Blind that Evan posted up and some honor drills.


BB blinds are for dogs who are RUNNING BLINDS --- I don't see how you could even pretend to run them with a dog not through transition.


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

Most of my obedience training is done indoors this time of year, as my backyard is covered in snow. I do venture out even when it is bitter cold to do a little work outside on the driveway though, or the street if it is clear.

Monday: Articles, signals, go outs, rear end awareness work, fronts, finishes, broad jump(weather permitting). 

Tuesday: Rear end work, articles, heeling, fronts, go outs, signals, stays.

Wednesday: Heeling, articles, fronts(with and withoug dumbell), rear end work, finishes, broad jump(weather permitting), retrieving.

Thursday: Rear end work, heeling, articles, signals, go outs, fronts, finishes, stays.

Friday: Articles, rear end work, heeling, stays, fronts(with and without dumbell), finishes, broad jump(weather permitting).

Saturday, and Sunday. Pretty much everything, broken up between the day, and lots of time checking for NOI updates.

I will also be helping my son Clayton learn obedience with Rivet.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

Stretchdrive said:


> Monday: Articles, signals, go outs, rear end awareness work, fronts, finishes, broad jump(weather permitting).
> 
> Tuesday: Rear end work, articles, heeling, fronts, go outs, signals, stays.
> 
> ...


Can you describe what you do for "rear end work"? Riot can't figure out he has a rear end. He can't even back up in a normal way.


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

mlopez said:


> Can you describe what you do for "rear end work"? Riot can't figure out he has a rear end. He can't even back up in a normal way.


Sidepassing, spinning, circling, backing, and then a lot of working in the front position(going form side to side, or feet on a bowl, as they do a turn on the forehand in the front position as I move around the bowl). We also sometimes do some backing around me.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Marie, lay a long ladder down on the ground and walk him up it so that he has to step between the rungs. He'll find his back end pretty quick.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

We are not going to the obedience show tomorrow, he titled today


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> We are not going to the obedience show tomorrow, he titled today


What a guy! Team Tito Rocks!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> We are not going to the obedience show tomorrow, he titled today


Congrats Barb!


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Swampcollie said:


> Pheasant Hunting, pheasant hunting, pheasant hunting and the occasional picture.


Yours sounds like a lot more fun!...Good luck and have fun!


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

K9-Design said:


> BB blinds are for dogs who are RUNNING BLINDS --- I don't see how you could even pretend to run them with a dog not through transition.


I guess I should have said with my sisters lab. She is running blinds. I was going to do the bird boy part. and have my son make Jige honor Prada's runs. Jige needs to work on his honors. 
When I talk about the training Iam talking about two dogs. Prada Brown and Jige.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

My plans are a bit up in the air for this coming week. What I have so far:

Today, Sun: refresh what our private covered yesterday & write my notes. Followed by Rally run thrus this evening.

Mon: Faelan : Articles, distance sits, Heeling change of pace, fronts
Towhee: Retrieve, distance sits, Heeling change of pace, fronts
Casey: Happy Happy
Me: Heeling Footwork and body language

Tue: Towhee has obedience class

Wed: Casey, Faelan and Towhee all have agility class

Thu: Combination of obedience and agility - need to include finishes

Fri: Faelan: scent articles, heeling, signals, distant sits, go outs, fronts
Towhee: Retrieve, heeling, Down out of motion, Broad Jump, fronts
Casey: Happy heeling, Retrieves, High Jump, Broad Jump
Me: Practice footwork and body language

Sat: I need to check my schedule (at work) but I believe I have a private obedience lesson, followed by a rental.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Well I have some new pets. 19 of them, whoops, make it 18 after yesterday. Kristin and I bought 19 ducks and are keeping them in the duck pen where we train, along with about 40 of their friends. We spent a few hours the first day cleaning the pen and reconfiguring their water source (which was an utter mess) and are feeding them and changing their water every time we go out to train (they of course are fed every day otherwise).
So yesterday we caught four of them and gave them little hoods so they couldn't see, and used them in our marks. Slater, Millie and Puck need experience with live birds; Fisher proved he doesn't by killing his. 
Anyways it was cold -- 56 degrees, BRRRRRRR!!!!! -- and rainy but we set up a nice land triple and two blinds, ran everyone accordingly, and had a nice day. The three ducks that Fisher DIDN'T get were perfectly fine. 
Tuesday we have someone to shoot so will get true shot fliers for puppies.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Grins - my remaining duck was rehomed to a friend, who bought him 2 chickens to keep him company! I found out I was allergic - I kind of suspected since every duck does not roll around in Poison Ivy and yet I kept getting Poison Ivy like rashes after handling the ducks (I started with 3, one flew away, one I released and Sir Drake, now known as Quakers was the one rehomed). Have fun with your ducks; they are messy but very endearing  Not to mention essential for training.



K9-Design said:


> Well I have some new pets. 19 of them, whoops, make it 18 after yesterday. Kristin and I bought 19 ducks and are keeping them in the duck pen where we train, along with about 40 of their friends. We spent a few hours the first day cleaning the pen and reconfiguring their water source (which was an utter mess) and are feeding them and changing their water every time we go out to train (they of course are fed every day otherwise).
> So yesterday we caught four of them and gave them little hoods so they couldn't see, and used them in our marks. Slater, Millie and Puck need experience with live birds; Fisher proved he doesn't by killing his.
> Anyways it was cold -- 56 degrees, BRRRRRRR!!!!! -- and rainy but we set up a nice land triple and two blinds, ran everyone accordingly, and had a nice day. The three ducks that Fisher DIDN'T get were perfectly fine.
> Tuesday we have someone to shoot so will get true shot fliers for puppies.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Fisher is so glad you bought him 19, errr, 18, Christmas dinners 

edit to add....I was going to let that comment about it being cold slip by, but I just can't. It was 9 degrees here yesterday morning.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

NINE DEGREES! ***!!!!!!
YOU PEOPLE ARE NUTS!!!!!!!!

Yes Fisher really -- he was also the one that did about 14 laps around the duck pen the other day, barking, before I could catch him -- the other dogs are like, what is your problem!!! 
I think I would take his bird crunching problems more seriously if he were sticky on birds -- oh great -- power of suggestion --- the one thing we've never had an issue on! LOL


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Sunrise said:


> Grins - my remaining duck was rehomed to a friend, who bought him 2 chickens to keep him company! I found out I was allergic - I kind of suspected since every duck does not roll around in Poison Ivy and yet I kept getting Poison Ivy like rashes after handling the ducks (I started with 3, one flew away, one I released and Sir Drake, now known as Quakers was the one rehomed). Have fun with your ducks; they are messy but very endearing  Not to mention essential for training.


Oh gosh, well I haven't named ours yet -- mainly because we can't tell them apart 
I do love watching them, they are terribly cute and every time we change their water they all come running over and hop in and splash around. Instant entertainment when feeding them, I think I could obedience train them they are so eager for food! Oh yes, my little ill fated pets


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Yep, 9 degrees...at least it wasn't too windy.
At that my friend is why I'm a fair weather trainer!!! Because when it's cold here, it's bone chilling, ache all over type of cold. Not in-the-50's balmy weather!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

ah, here we go, here's what I need:

madisonflorida.com


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> ah, here we go, here's what I need:
> 
> madisonflorida.com


OMG - that has me drooling  Now to round up a half million dollars or so <sigh>


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Just back from the Rally Run thrus. I felt so bad for Casey from this morning that I took him instead of Towhee. So Faelan, Casey and I met some great people, ate some good food and played in the Rally Ring. I asked the 'judge' to follow them both for both runs/both dogs to help simulate a trial and sure enough, they showed some interest, so we worked through that. There was a girlie in season, so perhaps it was best Towhee was not there since she tends to get, well b*tchy if another girl dares to be in season in her presence.

Both dogs were rusty on a few signs (Stop & Down, halt-side-step-right & halt, halt, pivot left) but were much better the 2nd run through. The other participants loved watching the golden tails at work LOL they actually seemed a bit mesmerized in fact <grins> 

I made Casey stay home this morning rather than going for a nice long hike with my brother, BIL, Towhee, Faelan and BIL's 2 dogs. He was so upset he kept running window to window crying & whining for an hour! But, I had just trimmed him up, bathed, conditioned and blown him dry and it was too cold to risk him re-wetting himself and maybe getting cold tail. Faelan was also groomed up but I figured (wrongly) he would stay dry; nope he too went swimming when the temps were in the teens along with Towhee, but at least they are younger!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

We had a warm 10 this morning, however, it turned into a tropical heat wave this afternoon with a whoppin' 40! 

You know, if we all pool our money, I'll bet we could swing that farm. It'd be nice to own a piece of Golden Retriever history! 

I set all my pigeons free for the winter, plus it would have been a pain for DH to care for them during my down time. We still have a few flying around, driving the dogs crazy.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

DNL2448 said:


> We had a warm 10 this morning, however, it turned into a tropical heat wave this afternoon with a whoppin' 40!
> 
> You know, if we all pool our money, I'll bet we could swing that farm. It'd be nice to own a piece of Golden Retriever history!


I have about an extra $20 in my bank account. Would that still count as a contribution so I could come and train with you guys?!

Riot and I have been working on force to pile. I find it, um, boring. Line up pup, send pup, receive pup, step back a few feet, repeat. I have been sending from my side and from the front. Ri definitely looks out intently on "dead bird" and I'm really happy with his drive to the pile. He's so quick that I miss him every time with the stick. So I put it away. He seems to have the idea down, but I want to take him some other places to see how he does. Thankfully, Lardy says only 2-4 sessions, so I guess we don't have to linger on this too long. We are also working whistle sits. Riot is not 100% on this yet, and I know I need him to be. Well, I guess he just isn't as fast as I want. He sits, but sometimes its slow. Would it be bad to give a collar correction for a slow sit? I have just been doing a verbal sit if he doesn't sit right away. 

Tomorrow is my last exam and then I get a nice month off until the start of my next (and last!) semester! I plan on doing a lot of relaxing, training, and house cleaning, definitely in that order.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

mlopez said:


> I have about an extra $20 in my bank account. Would that still count as a contribution so I could come and train with you guys?!


$20 Is about all I can swing too, so no worries. So we have $40 so far only need $425,460.00!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Marie since you are doing FTP do NOT correct for slow sits with the whistle. To him right now collar means bumpers so you might royally confuse him.
Have you collar conditioned for sit to whistle?
Do you have him on a rope?


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

K9-Design said:


> Marie since you are doing FTP do NOT correct for slow sits with the whistle. To him right now collar means bumpers so you might royally confuse him.
> Have you collar conditioned for sit to whistle?
> Do you have him on a rope?


Right now, I have not combined whistle sits with FTP. I just want him to drive to the pile. I'm talking more about just walking, random whistle sits, and also recalls where I whistle him at some point while he is coming in (with freebies thrown in so he doesn't start anticipating). 

I haven't specifically CCed to the whistle. Would it be: whistle, nick, "sit"? His verbal sits are so fast that it's obvious how "slow" hiw whistle sits are. It's probably just that he is still learning, so I'm not going to correct just yet. Just gathering info. Also: shopping the pile. I know I definitely don't want to collar correct at the pile. Should I just walk up and ear pinch? Put him on the rope and pull him in?


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

mlopez said:


> Right now, I have not combined whistle sits with FTP. I just want him to drive to the pile. I'm talking more about just walking, random whistle sits, and also recalls where I whistle him at some point while he is coming in (with freebies thrown in so he doesn't start anticipating).
> 
> I haven't specifically CCed to the whistle. Would it be: whistle, nick, "sit"? His verbal sits are so fast that it's obvious how "slow" hiw whistle sits are. It's probably just that he is still learning, so I'm not going to correct just yet. Just gathering info. Also: shopping the pile. I know I definitely don't want to collar correct at the pile. Should I just walk up and ear pinch? Put him on the rope and pull him in?


I would not use the collar for anything other than your FTP and obvious obedience infractions such as "here" while you are working through FTP. Honestly I would keep working with him on the whistle on leash or on a rope and not worry about it at this point. Once they put the whistle sit in context they will do it quickly.

For shopping the pile I would use the rope and yank him back the second he gets near the pile. If he allows himself to be pulled away without a bumper I would give a small nick and say FETCH (or whatever his word is). Note that if you've pulled him away without a bumper he is AWAY from the pile when he gets the nick. This doesn't leave him time to shop. If the nick baffles him THEN go in and ear pinch. FTP is when you transition from ear pinch to the collar for fetch infractions. If he is a little nutso about bumpers and wants to grab them all, I would maybe start this with just two bumpers and once he is quickly grabbing the first one he comes to, add more. Just my take on it and what I would probably do. FYI it was exactly this lesson with Slater that earned me a fantastic rope burn on my ankle so be careful! Forcing a fast dog plus a long line equals, lots of rope moving fast. Wear pants and boots!!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Before you get on him about the shopping you might want to consider going ahead and teaching him scent articles first. Obviously a dog that has been fully trained through FTP can still learn to do articles successfully later, but I think it can save a lot of frustration if you do it the other way around.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

We did articles first just because we did obedience before we ever considered field, but this makes total sense to me and I agree with Jodie.



Loisiana said:


> Before you get on him about the shopping you might want to consider going ahead and teaching him scent articles first. Obviously a dog that has been fully trained through FTP can still learn to do articles successfully later, but I think it can save a lot of frustration if you do it the other way around.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> We did articles first just because we did obedience before we ever considered field, but this makes total sense to me and I agree with Jodie.


I agree with this in theory but sometimes you gotta make hay when the sun shines. Marie is clearly MUCH further along in field than she is in obedience...why halt field work in it's obviously successful track to take a long time to teach articles? It is impractical in this situation. A few more lessons and she will probably be through FTP. 
I think with ANY dog crossed trained for articles and pile work in field, you have the potential for some confusion, but good training should moderate that. I wouldn't keep one venue from prohibiting advancement in another.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

true, but there's no reason she couldn't start articles today. Since she says she wants an OTCH on her dog, I would think it would be worth it to put off addressing the shopping for a week or two while she gets a foundation in teaching the dog, since it's a lot easier to teach a dog to stop shopping than to stop grabbing.

But you're right, no matter what you do you're still going to run into some kind of problem. I purposefully started Flip on articles as soon as he finished force fetch, because I wanted to train those before FTP and he was ready for FTP. (so he was started on articles a full year before he ever did any kind of novice run through). And I still have to keep on him constantly to prevent snatching. Sigh.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Loisiana said:


> true, but there's no reason she couldn't start articles today. Since she says she wants an OTCH on her dog, I would think it would be worth it to put off addressing the shopping for a week or two while she gets a foundation in teaching the dog, since it's a lot easier to teach a dog to stop shopping than to stop grabbing.
> 
> But you're right, no matter what you do you're still going to run into some kind of problem. I purposefully started Flip on articles as soon as he finished force fetch, because I wanted to train those before FTP and he was ready for FTP. (so he was started on articles a full year before he ever did any kind of novice run through). And I still have to keep on him constantly to prevent snatching. Sigh.


Yeah, and if she did that (halt FTP and blow through teaching the foundation of articles quickly)....well, I think having the two so close in time would royally confuse the dog, MUCH more than if she was well past FTP, even running blinds, before ever starting articles. I kind of think in field work there are several Extremely Important Lessons that are essential --- namely FF and FTP, you could add decheating and steadying to the list --- that form the foundation for everything to come later on, but the dog doesn't necessarily remember the very specific lesson at a later date. Rather, the take-home message of the specific lesson generalizes to the overall work. Hope I'm making this make sense...for example I really truly *doubt* Slater remembers our specific FTP sessions. I do not believe he runs hard on blinds currently because he remembers FTP and wants to avoid being forced. What I do think is those early FTP lessons CAUSED the behavior that are now ingrained as habit. So he runs hard when he hears "Back" because that is what he was taught from the get-go, he doesn't know it any other way, and now it is self-rewarding. 

I think if you were to teach FTP and articles in roughly the same time frame the dog may try to connect the dots between the two and present himself with a lot of confusion. With sufficient time to progress well past FTP in field work, and allow the dog to generalize the FTP lessons into his everyday working attitude, I think you can approach articles with not so much "hangover" from field work. At least -- this is what I'm hoping, with Slater!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Day one:
Force fetch has begun. I started with the bumper right in front of his mouth and gave the command FETCH while putting pressure on his ear. After the third time, he was quickly opening his mouth to take the bumper. I did three successful commands and barely had to pinch on them that we ended our session at that and LOTS of praise.

I screwed up, though and forgot to put the dummy collar on him. Will not make that mistake next time.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

DNL2448 said:


> Day one:
> Force fetch has begun. I started with the bumper right in front of his mouth and gave the command FETCH while putting pressure on his ear. After the third time, he was quickly opening his mouth to take the bumper. I did three successful commands and barely had to pinch on them that we ended our session at that and LOTS of praise.
> 
> I screwed up, though and forgot to put the dummy collar on him. Will not make that mistake next time.


Congrats! That sounds like a great start! I did a lot of short sessions like that. Just make sure as you get further into it, that you work long enough that he gets to the "I don't want to anymore" spot. And then go through it! 

I had to pinch Riot's ear today for the first time in about forever. Silly boy spit the bumper out three times in a row. 

On the FTP issue... We worked two different piles of eight bumpers today, after a session of walking fetch with a few collar fetches thrown in. I used the collar about 4 or 5 times during FTP and he really seemed to be driving even more, so I'm happy with that. I appreciate all the advise about articles and pile shopping. My thought is that I won't start articles really soon. I want to move him along in field, past FTP and such, before we address this. I agree with Anney in that working them both right now could be confusing for him. I think I will just have to make sure, when we do start articles, that I make it look VERY different from his field work. As we discussed earlier, I think there will be some things that will cause him confusion doing multiple venues, and this will probably be one of them.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I know Anney and I have both said our boys who were taught articles first are pile shoppers. But I do feel that, when you pick your battles, that's not a very important one. After all, it's not like there's a pile of birds out there to choose from in a hunt test.
A couple of weeks ago Dan was doing some lining/casting drills with Tito and the Tito Monster was pile shopping. I told Dan, "he's looking for the most recent one you touched". Dan didn't believe me.
So when we moved to a different drill, I had Dan handle the bumpers from the string, except for one, which he held in his hand for several seconds. Guess which one Tito came back with! (we knew because of where he placed that bumper in relation to the pole). 
Told ya so!


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

Too funny Barb!!!! Smart little Tito!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Dan really didn't believe me that that's what he was doing, and I had to prove it to redeem my boy (of course it *might* have been coincidence, too, lol)!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Flip was the biggest PAIN IN THE BUTT to force fetch. Funny of all the dogs I have put through force fetch (my 4 plus started out several of my friends' dogs), he has the most natural retrieve drive and instinct, yet was by far the most difficult to go through FF with. It's the traits that I saw in him as a puppy that made me choose him that also cause us to have some battles.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> I know Anney and I have both said our boys who were taught articles first are pile shoppers. But I do feel that, when you pick your battles, that's not a very important one. After all, it's not like there's a pile of birds out there to choose from in a hunt test.
> A couple of weeks ago Dan was doing some lining/casting drills with Tito and the Tito Monster was pile shopping. I told Dan, "he's looking for the most recent one you touched". Dan didn't believe me.
> So when we moved to a different drill, I had Dan handle the bumpers from the string, except for one, which he held in his hand for several seconds. Guess which one Tito came back with! (we knew because of where he placed that bumper in relation to the pole).
> Told ya so!


Now THAT is CUTE!!!! 
Yeah Fisher had a rough start with articles (my fault, dumb trainer) so when it came time for pile work I wasn't about to pick on him for shopping. Yes, he's an awful shopper. For him I don't really think he's scenting so much that, he has favorite bumpers and will always pick his favorite of whatever is there, but has to sample a few in the meantime. It's bad, I know, but like Barb said, I wasn't going to set back our hard-fought-for articles to get a cleaner pick up on a pile of bumpers. In the long run it hasn't mattered one iota for Fisher.
Now when I started FTP with Slater I had to nip shopping in the bud because it was very obvious he was using it as an avoidance technique. "The more I dilly-dally here the slower I can get back to you...." He really very quickly figured out to not linger over the pile, and it's not something we've had to revisit over time. Now it's just one of those ingrained behaviors that he totally is not stressed over because, well, it's not a big deal because that's how is goes.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

GoldenSail said:


> Ooh...I wanna go hunting too! I have to finish my Hunter's Ed class this week--Mon, Tue, and Thursday night with Saturday field day.
> 
> Trying to find time to take a lesson from a pro trainer...well I have been trying to go for the last several months at least once with my friends but timing has never worked out for me. If you venture onto RTF you may know him as Pete.


I hope that you get a chance to do some work on shotgun skills. I learned the hard way many years ago that my dog was good at finding birds but I was terrible shot. I'm different today.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I will be working on obedience drills with Buffy this week. I plan to go pheasant hunting with her this week. I will also be jumpshooting ducks (if I am lucky). This combined opportunity is why I hunt with steel shot.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

gdgli said:


> I hope that you get a chance to do some work on shotgun skills. I learned the hard way many years ago that my dog was good at finding birds but I was terrible shot. I'm different today.


I have practiced and I am not very good, yet. I have cross dominance with left eye right hand dominance. My friends are trying to convince me to patch my eye and force it but the other night I tried left hand and that felt like it would be easier to pick up for me. Just have to worry about getting shell casings ejected in my face now...

This season I decided since it is almost over I am going to go with friends but not shoot myself. Scout can retrieve for them and I can get a feel for how it works. 

Last night I was a little alarmed when I was talking to one of the instructors about safety and hunting with a dog. He mentioned how the dogs can sometimes get caught in animal traps but that it isn't a big deal you just let them out. My mind quickly envisioned a one snapping its steel jaws closed on Scout's paw! Then I learned that they don't use those types of traps anymore it would just be a cage. The other scary part to be aware of is if they get their collar trapped on brush while swimming or get trapped in water (beaver trap) they could drown. Eeek.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

DNL2448 said:


> Day one:
> Force fetch has begun. I started with the bumper right in front of his mouth and gave the command FETCH while putting pressure on his ear. After the third time, he was quickly opening his mouth to take the bumper. I did three successful commands and barely had to pinch on them that we ended our session at that and LOTS of praise.
> 
> I screwed up, though and forgot to put the dummy collar on him. Will not make that mistake next time.


Remember that part of the purpose of this process is for the dog to learn to turn off pressure by complying. Goldens can try to beat the pressure by offering behaviours they know work--and thus avoid the force lesson that is necessary. You want to actually force here so they understand turning it off (as opposed to pre-empting it) in preparation for the work that comes after (CC, FTP, TT). Made this mistake with one of my guys who figured out how to beat the pressure before it could be applied, and LOOKED like he had been FF'ed because he was diving at bumpers and birds, but in reality was not and it came out when we tried to move on.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Several solutions for cross eye dominance include: Scotch tape on the eyeglass lens of the left eye; patch over the left eye or lens; closing the left eye; commercially available dots to place on the eyeglass lens of the left eye.

I shoot trap competitively and out of the five of us who squad together regularly we all close our left eye when shooting.

Learn how to release the traps if traps are a concern.

Many of us hunt the dog without a collar when hunting over water.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

I use a collar with a roll ring in it and a flat id tag riveted onto the collar when hunting. Nothing danlging to get hung up, and the ring in the collar means it will roll off if snagged.

I have a friend who does all of the eye blocking stuff to shoot a right handed gun as her right handedness is stronger than her eye dominance, but for me shooting lefty just feels so much more natural--blocking the vision in one eye just royally screws me up. And thankfully there are some nice left-handed firearms out there now. Interestingly some armed forces are now testing eye dominance and making soldiers shoot off their eye dominant side as they have found it improves their accuracy and and smooth handling of the firearm. I have a friend who alwaysd shot righty as that was what his father had available but when he joined up they made him train lefty.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

sterregold said:


> Remember that part of the purpose of this process is for the dog to learn to turn off pressure by complying. Goldens can try to beat the pressure by offering behaviours they know work--and thus avoid the force lesson that is necessary. You want to actually force here so they understand turning it off (as opposed to pre-empting it) in preparation for the work that comes after (CC, FTP, TT). Made this mistake with one of my guys who figured out how to beat the pressure before it could be applied, and LOOKED like he had been FF'ed because he was diving at bumpers and birds, but in reality was not and it came out when we tried to move on.


Thanks Shelly. I did pinch each time, but did not have to pinch as long before he took the bumper. Should I have moved the bumper away just a little so he had to reach out while I was pinching? I know that moving away comes with the process, but when he is showing success, do I make it more difficult at that time or wait until our next session, building on the previous success?


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

sterregold said:


> I use a collar with a roll ring in it and a flat id tag riveted onto the collar when hunting. Nothing danlging to get hung up, and the ring in the collar means it will roll off if snagged.
> 
> I have a friend who does all of the eye blocking stuff to shoot a right handed gun as her right handedness is stronger than her eye dominance, but for me shooting lefty just feels so much more natural--blocking the vision in one eye just royally screws me up. And thankfully there are some nice left-handed firearms out there now. Interestingly some armed forces are now testing eye dominance and making soldiers shoot off their eye dominant side as they have found it improves their accuracy and and smooth handling of the firearm. I have a friend who alwaysd shot righty as that was what his father had available but when he joined up they made him train lefty.


FWIW, trapshooting coach Phil Kiner feels that cross eye dominance is more prevalent in women and older shooters of both sexes.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

sterregold said:


> I have a friend who does all of the eye blocking stuff to shoot a right handed gun as her right handedness is stronger than her eye dominance, but for me shooting lefty just feels so much more natural--blocking the vision in one eye just royally screws me up.


Yup I think my left eye is significantly stronger than my right. I also don't have 20/20 vision and I believe I see better out of my left (I did have laser eye surgery a year ago). Plus, it isn't as safe to patch one of your eyes because then you lose peripheral vision.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

gdgli said:


> FWIW, trapshooting coach Phil Kiner feels that cross eye dominance is more prevalent in women and older shooters of both sexes.


Interesting. I have a friend who shoots competitive skeet who also shoots left. He switched as a younger man and once he did his scores were much better.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

GoldenSail said:


> Yup I think my left eye is significantly stronger than my right. I also don't have 20/20 vision and I believe I see better out of my left (I did have laser eye surgery a year ago). Plus, it isn't as safe to patch one of your eyes because then you lose peripheral vision.


That's how it is for me--my left eye seems to be my main one for focus and judging distance--so shooting one-eyed is not good!


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

DNL2448 said:


> Thanks Shelly. I did pinch each time, but did not have to pinch as long before he took the bumper. Should I have moved the bumper away just a little so he had to reach out while I was pinching? I know that moving away comes with the process, but when he is showing success, do I make it more difficult at that time or wait until our next session, building on the previous success?


Keep the degree of pressure the same, just release when he does the correct behaviour. Move on to the next step when he is doing it reliably (ie start to make him reach a little bit, and then a bit more, incrementally). I have actually started adding restraint into the process at then end of going to the ground, and before FTP (some people do it with a pulley system on a table, but I do not have one! I use a harness and a bungy anchored to a post and make them pull against that restraint--it really shows whether they understand the command.)


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Force Fetch day two:

I remembered the dummy collar! I think he is getting it. We did have a couple of baby fits but I was able to keep the pressure on until he took the bumper. Lots of praise ensued, however the hold was still kept as a standard. Shelly, I think the baby fit was what you were talking about...Correct?


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## luvgld7 (Jan 23, 2008)

Puppy Sawyer is taking a break from field training this weekend. We're going to a 2 day beginning tracking seminar. The instructor is wonderful and a tracking Judge, so it should be great.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

DNL2448 said:


> Force Fetch day two:
> 
> I remembered the dummy collar! I think he is getting it. We did have a couple of baby fits but I was able to keep the pressure on until he took the bumper. Lots of praise ensued, however the hold was still kept as a standard. Shelly, I think the baby fit was what you were talking about...Correct?


If by "baby fit" you mean he tried an avoidance behaviour to escape the pressure rather than taking the proffered bumper, then yes by keeping the pressure on until he took the bumper you responded appropriately.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

We went to Dan's today, trying to squeeze in one or two more sessions if the weather holds. It was 35 degrees and very, very windy, so it was quite chilly today.
This was one of those days that it's a good thing Dan was by my side, or I probably would have quit field all together. (yes, I'm exaggerating).
We are now "putting it all together" to get ready to run SH in the Spring, and he's showing confusion that we need to work through. Dan assures me this is totally normal, which is good to hear because I was thinking maybe my dog is stooooopid.
The thing that really troubles me is that Tito seems to have lost the ability to run doubles. He was always really good at doubles and even triples, but now he just doesn't seem to remember why he's being sent out a second time. So we spent a lot of time doing doubles, mostly with the go-bird hand thrown by me and the memory bird hand thrown in various locations by Dan, ranging from about 30-100 yards, in fairly low (maybe 8 inches) cover. He seemed to be doing much better after we did several, so then we threw a blind in. We haven't done any blinds or casting in about 4 weeks, because of the confusion on the doubles. So of course, he took the whistle sit, and then just sat there and stared at me when I cast. We worked thru it, did some singles, thru in some more blinds, and he remembered what they were all about and did okay after that, although he did pop on one that followed a double. 
All in all, a frustrating day for me, I feel like he's slid back a long way from where he was a few weeks ago, although Dan assures me that isn't the case. He says the skills are still there (he was marking REALLY well today), but he's just confused as to expectations right now and we have to be patient and teach him what is expected in each scenario.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> All in all, a frustrating day for me, I feel like he's slid back a long way from where he was a few weeks ago, although Dan assures me that isn't the case. He says the skills are still there (he was marking REALLY well today), but he's just confused as to expectations right now and we have to be patient and teach him what is expected in each scenario.


Yep, we just visited the Land of Confusion, a few short weeks ago.
Back tracking and rebuilding with better communication from me did the trick. Coming forward all the skills were still there, it was the confusion that was getting us.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

The Land of Confusion, I love it!! 
About the only good thing I can say for today is he wasn't blowing me off. He was very much a team player, he just didn't understand the rules he was playing by.
Thanks for the good words. I'm feeling a bit discouraged, going into the end of training for 3 months in this way.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> The Land of Confusion, I love it!!
> About the only good thing I can say for today is he wasn't blowing me off. He was very much a team player, he just didn't understand the rules he was playing by.
> Thanks for the good words. I'm feeling a bit discouraged, going into the end of training for 3 months in this way.


Go back and read your post from a year ago. I bet you won't be discouraged then. So much to learn for both the dog and the handler between Junior and Senior. The partnership really starts to come together. This is just a bump in the road, didn't you tell me two steps forward, one step back? :

We are lucky and can train through winter here. It will be cold and wet somedays.....maybe snow....but manageable.
I'm hoping that we can run Senior/Seasoned next summer. However, that means that we would have started training at the Master/Finished level. Yikes!


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Yesterday trained with the Pro. I haven't trained with him for 3 weeks. Given our blind difficulties in the recent past that was really what was going to be looked at. There were some marks but the meat of the day was 3 blinds.
I had the luxury of watching a few dogs of all experience levels run and could see some of the pitfalls. All of my blind runs were about 70-80 yards. They were longer for the more experienced dogs.

Blind #1
40 yards run then a dip and stake was on other side of dip. Off the to right was a large tree about 30 yards in front of stake that pulled the dogs toward it. Dogs that got too close to tree had a hard time casting off. 
I sent Winter and sure enough the tree started sucking her toward it. Whistle sit, left angle back, Winter scalloped right, whistle sit, used voice and left angle back, Winter scalloped right, took step as I casted left angle back and used voice, Winter left over. Was happy with the hard left because we do not have fine tuned casting skills yet and she took the cast away from suction. Let her carry the left cast a few extra steps. Whistle sit, right angle back and she was there. We ran it again and she lined it.

Blind #2
It was set to run between two wingers but since we moved up it provided no suction for us. There was a small depression that you lost site of the dog in until they were almost to the stake. In the depression some dogs lost the line.
I sent Winter and stopped her just before the dip when I would lose site of her. Gave her a straight back cast with a verbal, in hopes it would help her carry more momentum and carry the line. She appeared on the other side of the depression off line to the just a bit left, whistle sit and as she was turning to sit you could see that she spotted the blind. Right angle back and she was there.

Blind # 3
Winger off to right and blind set behind it, also a line of blackberry bushes angling in from the left. The bushes were pulling quite a few dogs.
Sent Winter and she ran straight past the winger but the bushes started pulling her left, whistle sit, right angle back, Winter scalloped left, whistle sit,
right angle back and voice, Winter scalloped left, this time I just had her sit there for about 10 seconds, right angle back with voice. Winter took cast all the way to the stake.

The pro was happy with our progress. "Winter looks good, no pops, running with momentum, and you are holding up your end. You both look good. And that was a nice double to start it off."
Yippee, I feel like we just pasted a major exam that we have spent weeks studying for.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Oh Barb don't be discouraged, well okay, you will face a lot of discouragement on this journey but you will persevere and come out on top. Trust me I've done it about five thousand times. 
I honestly think Tito and Slater are very much in the same place right now. Doing some really neat things that make me think "WOW he's doing it! He's really doing it!" and other things are like, "Well that was sad, how much more do I have to do this before you get it? Or will you ever get it?"
Just the other day when we shot fliers, I was so pleased how he was steady for the big guns, had no problem with the struggling birds and blood, stepped on his memory bird, then I lined him up for the blind and he not only wouldn't lock on but when I sent him he ran three feet then crept back like he had no idea what was going on. ***! I lined him up again and sent him and he rocketed out there and lined the blind. Now diagnose that?!?!?!
Anyways for the X's and O's portion, are you doing memory birds as singles first, then running the double? Also some people throw a double, have the dog pick up the go-bird, come back and do a bird-in-mouth single, rethrowing the same memory bird. 
And lastly, I know with Fisher especially, if we take a break off from training he always comes back really strong. I'm thinking of giving him from now until after Christmas off, he kind of needs it. 
Good work Barb, Tito will have no problem when you go for your senior.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Woo-hoo got 100% on my hunter's ed exam...had to share


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Woohoo! Way to go!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Great job! Congratulations, you showed them boys!!!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Force Fetch
Day 3:

Really had some baby fits today, but when he finally decided that he better grab the bumper, he sure did. Worked through several of those and I could see the lightbulb come on and he did a couple quickly and cleanly and we called it quits. The bumper is about 3" in front of his mouth at this time.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

DNL2448 said:


> Force Fetch
> Day 3:
> 
> Really had some baby fits today, but when he finally decided that he better grab the bumper, he sure did. Worked through several of those and I could see the lightbulb come on and he did a couple quickly and cleanly and we called it quits. The bumper is about 3" in front of his mouth at this time.


That sounds about right  And sounds really good! I hope the light stays on. Tell Tag to keep it up!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Sounds like a great session - and doesn't it really help when your trainer/mentor/pro says such great things? Your dog does good, you do good and that praise just give you even more joy! Well done 



hollyk said:


> The pro was happy with our progress. "Winter looks good, no pops, running with momentum, and you are holding up your end. You both look good. And that was a nice double to start it off."
> Yippee, I feel like we just pasted a major exam that we have spent weeks studying for.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

GoldenSail said:


> Woo-hoo got 100% on my hunter's ed exam...had to share


Yay! Congratulations


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Yep, that's exactly where we're at. Sometimes he just nails really complicated stuff and impresses the heck out of me, and then 5 minutes later is totally befuddled on something I think he should have had absolutely no problem with. It's making me NUTS!
Yes to all the X's and O's! That's what we spent yesterday's lesson doing. He has no trouble at all with bird in mouth singles, heel back singles, heck, singles of any kind. It's the "why are you sending me all the way out again, is this a blind or a mark?" that seems to be the issue.
We'll get there. He may be 16 years old in a wheelchair, but we WILL get there.





K9-Design said:


> I honestly think Tito and Slater are very much in the same place right now. Doing some really neat things that make me think "WOW he's doing it! He's really doing it!" and other things are like, "Well that was sad, how much more do I have to do this before you get it? Or will you ever get it?"
> Anyways for the X's and O's portion, are you doing memory birds as singles first, then running the double? Also some people throw a double, have the dog pick up the go-bird, come back and do a bird-in-mouth single, rethrowing the same memory bird.
> And lastly, I know with Fisher especially, if we take a break off from training he always comes back really strong. I'm thinking of giving him from now until after Christmas off, he kind of needs it.
> Good work Barb, Tito will have no problem when you go for your senior.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Great job Lisa, you go girl!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks Holly! Sounds like you guys had a GREAT session!


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