# e collar question



## linktrek (Nov 17, 2007)

I may be getting an e collar. I put a bid on one in ebay. My question is, how do you use the collar to train the dog? It seems to me that if you shock a dog, it makes him/her think NO because it a negative event?


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## JimS (Jan 2, 2007)

That's a much larger question than can be handled in a forum post. Your best bet is to get a DVD or book on the proper use of the collars, or hire a professional to do the initial conditioning and teach you how to use it correctly. All of the collar manufacturers have books or videos. There's also a very good book/dvd combo from Mike Lardy and another good one in the Smartwork video series.

http://www.totalretriever.com/ecollar.htm
http://www.gundogsupply.com/smartwork-obedience.html
http://www.dobbsdogs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=13_88

I've seen/read all of the above. Kali, my Senior Labby was conditioned using the Dobbs method. It's a bit archaic, but it gets the job done. Mike Lardy's has become the de facto standard in retriever training and is very thorough. Were I planning to use an e-collar with Chase, it's the method I would use. Evan Graham's Smartwork is becoming very popular, although it's not the way I like to teach my dogs (which is probably why my dog is a Senior and Evan's are champions!).


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Please take JimS advice...
Unfortunately many don't - and end up with dogs that are neurotic messes afraid to do much of anything for fear of choosing incorrectly and being zapped for their choice. 
It doesnt do much for a dogs confidence.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I thought you weren't going to go that route? I agree eith LibertyME. If you use it incorrectly, you are going to ruin what trust she has in you just because you don't want to have to follow through on training her. It seems to me that you are just looking for the "easiest" fix, not matter the consequences to your dog.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

linktrek said:


> I may be getting an e collar. I put a bid on one in ebay. My question is, how do you use the collar to train the dog? It seems to me that if you shock a dog, it makes him/her think NO because it a negative event?


As new as it appears that you are at this, getting a sound and proven system will be of paramount importance. Study it thoroughly prior to using any e-collar.

One thing I try to make clear in the *Smartwork* system is that e-collars don't teach dogs anything. They don't provide any information, or show the dog a clear path to success. They're tools. They may be used to correct or to compel a dog. More importantly, you must understand that it is not fair to use one on a dog until it has been conditioned to the stimulus and shown by YOU (the trainer) what the trained standard is.

You will also find that there are few tools with an equal capacity for both good and bad as the e-collar, depending completely upon the user. It's good that you have enquired before using it.

There is no more comprehensive method available, nor one so detailed as Smartwork. I remain accessible to guide the users of my system as they go along. I think you'll find that anywhere from rare to non-existent among my peers.

Good training always,
EvanG


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## linktrek (Nov 17, 2007)

LibertyME said:


> Please take JimS advice...
> Unfortunately many don't - and end up with dogs that are neurotic messes afraid to do much of anything for fear of choosing incorrectly and being zapped for their choice.
> It doesnt do much for a dogs confidence.


I think you are right. My friend got a 1 year old sheppard from a friend. They were both sherrifs. I never saw the dog up close. One day I went into the house.The dog was behind glass sliding doors in the screened in patio. I went towards the glass sliding door and the dog jumped through the screen he previously jumped through in complete terror. I have never seen a dog in my life that was so afraid of people. I got a feeling that might have been the result of being shocked. That's the only thing I can think of unless the dog was going through attack school and they aggitated the dog and he didn't take.I've been outbid
I guess I can continue to train her the way she is but nomatter how much I say no, pull on the leash, stop when she pulls, I can't keep her from pulling on the leash on our walks together. She does pretty good in the house and in the backyard. But when I take her for the walk outside, she forgets it all. She now without reward can sit, go down, and wait. She will retrieve a ball and drop it with a reward. And all this she forgets when she goes for a walk or she is at the dog park. She sometimes doesn't obey because she doesn't feel like it. Seems to be more an attitude problem than repetision problem...


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

I have an E-collar and it came with a DVD and instruction manual. I love it! I don't use it for the shock, but the beeps. I haven't had to shock Ike. We have a radio fence and he knows that beeps mean "NO" When Ike was having a hard time with "come" when outside, we used the collar to reinforce the command. It's worked wonders for barking too. He can be anywhere in the yard, which is large, I'll beep him and he comes right to the door.


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## JimS (Jan 2, 2007)

Evan, I'm glad to see you over in this neck of the woods! The last time I watched the Smartwork for Obedience DVD, there were a few things that nagged at me. Would you mind answering a few questions for me after I watch it again this evening? It's been about a year since I've seen it, and I want to make sure my questions make sense.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

Fire away, Jim.

EvanG


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## allux00 (Mar 2, 2008)

If you have a problem with pulling, why don't you try getting a prong collar? Rusty was a NOTORIOUS puller, and even at 5 and a half months BOY could he drag me! On sunday we got him a prong collar and I was amazed at the difference. I could take him on a long walk without one pull. 

Others on this forum have used different no-pull devices, but the prong is the only one I have experience with.

Good luck!


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## linktrek (Nov 17, 2007)

Whats a prong collar? Does it have metal projections that put pressure on the neck when pulled?


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

In my humble opinion an e-collar is NEVER used to TEACH anything. It is used to reinforce what the dog already knows. If not used properly it will do much more HARM than good. Although I know nothing of Evan's Smartwork system I am very familiar with Jim and Phyllis Dobbs and Alice Woodyard's _*Retriever Training*_ book. It is one of most read and re-read books in my training library.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

After taking a few moments to look at Evan's *Smartwork* homepage I am impressed - not that really means that much.  Anyway from what I see there as far as some of his lesson articles and the rest Evan has a much better grasp on this than I and can absolutely guide you properly. 
I will just re-state in slightly different words this time what I already said - An e-collar is NOT a shortcut to train your dog it is te step you take after your dog is trained to impress upon the dog they do not have a choice.


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