# Raw food



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Yes, the frozen Natures Variety patties are a whole, complete diet. I, too, see that the girls' stools are much more compact since being on raw ( I use the NV and dehydrated Honest Kitchen.........love it BTW). Also, helps to be off the grains.

Haven't heard of the other raw diet you mentioned. Just saw you're from San Diego.......that's where the Honest Kitchen is made.... in a human foods plant there.


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## Augie's Mom (Sep 28, 2007)

I feed Augie the Nature's Variety Raw along with Nature's Variety Instinct. I recall both foods being nutritionally complete. In the past I alternated Stella and Chewy's raw with the Nature's Variety but this year Stella and Chewy's changed their formulation and it doesn't agree with Augie anymore (diarrhea). I think Stella and Chewy's would be a comparable alternative to Nature's Variety as long as your dog likes it.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

yes, the holistic pet store owner gave me some honest kitchen samples last time i was in there, and told me he likes it but 2nd to the raw patties. which honest kitchen formula do you like best?


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Natures Variety is a good and complete food. I like it among K9choice and other because you don't have to but supplements and add minerals to it like some it throw and go. What kibble are you feeding??? Are you wnating to switch completely to raw because of a problem with the kibble??


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

i am feeding timberwolf organics ocean blue... i am not having any problems with the kibble, sam loves it and because of his grain allergies its a great food for him. i am interested in switching to the raw because i have noticed that his poos are smaller, firmer, less frequent, and i generally think the raw food is the best thing he could be eating. i suppose i could keep feeding him a mix of the raw and his kibble, but there have been days i forgot to defrost the patties, and feed him kibble for both meals and even in just that one day i already notice bigger and more poops. 

also it just seems easier to have him on one food instead of having to have 2 different foods for him every day. although i am sort of interested in trying out honest kitchen and if he likes it i may give that to him occasionally as well. 

any idea what to do with the remainder of his kibble? would a rescue take it even though its been opened??


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

HONEST KITCHEN: I alternate the Force and Embark ( both grain free). I tried the new one ... can't remember the name but it has quinoa. It's considerably cheaper than the other two and I thought it was ok...... my crew just likes the other two better. They've been on it about a year.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Yeah I feed mine K9choice and Orijen and it seems to work well for them. You could try to take the kibble to a rescue they may take it or they may not?? I don't know anything about that other brand do they have a website??


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Untitled Document It's a dehydrated raw and they have both grain free and some with grains. Made of all human grade food at a USDA approved human food plant. Good site and lots of links to holistic sites. That still does take you to the honest kitchen website but I dont know why it came out untitled doc. ????


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Yeah I looked I figured Google would work just as well. I'm not sure on the fact its dehydrated I don't really like that. Which forumla would you want to feed. Some looked better then others and I think you have to buy the additives.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

i have some defrosted meat in the fridge i need to use for his dinner tonite, but maybe i will try giving him one of the honest kitchen samples i got and see if he likes it.. i believe the store owner gave me force and embark because i mentioned Sam's grain allergies to him


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

Here is a site that answers lots of questions. I would love to start feeding raw but need to study it more so that I do it right.

The Many Myths of Raw Feeding


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## Celeigh (Nov 29, 2007)

I just took a 40 pound opened bag of the dog food the breeder was feeding to Fergus to the local city animal shelter and they were thrilled to have it. I wanted Fergus on better food than he was getting, but I didn't want to switch too fast and it was the only sized bag I could buy. You might just call whoever you want to donate it to first to make sure they'll take it, but they had no problem with it being open.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

All of the Honest Kitchen formulas except one are complete diets. THe dehydration keeps all the enzymes and "live" portion of the food intact, but is done at a high enough temp on the meat to kill any pathogens. Also, I like that it is made in a human food plant and thus, has to follow human food, USDA, regulations.


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## Goldilocks (Jun 3, 2007)

I have been feeding my golden raw since mid October and almost immediately noticed an increase in her energy level and as you say the poop is much easier to deal with. Her coat is very shiny and her bad breath and doggy smell have disappeared.

I've been feeding mainly Urban Wolf which is a raw premix to which I add meat, oil and eggs. It was designed by a breeder here in Canada and it came recommended to me by a trainer at our dog training centre/daycare as she has a Swiss Mountain Dog and a Bernese and her breeder contracts the puppy buyers to only feed this food. She told me she thought her Bernese was doing well on kibble but once she got the Swissy who had always eaten Urban Wolf, she switched over to feeding them both Urban Wolf and the Bernese gained 8 lbs of muscle in 2 months and was doing so much better. You should see the beautiful coats on these 2 dogs and they are very healthy and attend the daycare a few days a week. The Bernese performs in the "Superdogs show" across North America so it needs a very well balanced, healthy diet and obviously the Urban Wolf is working well. That's why I think this is a good one for us and my dog loves it and seems to be doing well on it too.

For variety I frequently also feed a meal of prepackaged raw in patties - either Healthy Paws or Mountain Dog Food. If I forget to defrost a meal I will feed Honest Kitchen Embark with a half a large can of Wellness 95% salmon mixed in.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I would LOVE to feed mine the raw patties, but I can't afford the raw patties for four dogs, they're obscenely expensive here. It would cost me $30 a DAY to feed my dogs this food!


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

yes i can imagine with that many dogs feeding would get VERY expensive... with Sam i figure i'll be spending just a little more feeding all raw than feeding timberwolf food. i can buy a 33lb bag for about $60 on their website, and that will usually last me about 4-5 weeks. with the NV patties, it costs $20 for 12 patties, and $12 for 48 medallions (because he eats 1/2 patty and 2 medallions each meal) and so for one month (24 days actually) of food it will cost approx. $52 bucks (2 packs of patties and 1 pack of medallions). so its slightly more expensive, but of course, he is not at his full weight yet. it will def. be more expensive to feed when hes closer to 75lbs than the 50lb he's at right now.


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## Kirby'sMom (Feb 26, 2007)

Celeigh said:


> I just took a 40 pound opened bag of the dog food the breeder was feeding to Fergus to the local city animal shelter and they were thrilled to have it. I wanted Fergus on better food than he was getting, but I didn't want to switch too fast and it was the only sized bag I could buy. You might just call whoever you want to donate it to first to make sure they'll take it, but they had no problem with it being open.


That's great that they took your opened food. I and my co-worker at my job tried to give opened kibble to our shelter and they refused it because it had been opened. What a shame as we ended up throwing it out! I had cat food, Felidae, as my cats would not eat it, and she had dog kibble.


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## Shining Star (Jan 7, 2007)

My Girl Star eats Timber Wolf also.
I was thinking about trying the Raw Food but the cost is more then the Timber Wolf

I did try it for about one month but went back to The Timber Wolf


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## Kirby'sMom (Feb 26, 2007)

This was posted on another forum about changes with TO. 

*Timberwolf Ocean Blue - CHANGES!!!* 
A member of another forum brought this to my attention, so I checked it out on & the rumors are true. They have changed the Ocean Blue formula & some of the others as well. This explains why Goldie has been itchy since the new bags of food arrived & why her paws are bothering her. TO states that they needed to change the wording of a few things, such as "Potato" to "Dried Potato Product" & "Low Ash White Fish Meal" to "White Fish Meal." But, that is not my biggest concern - they completely changed the whole formula! 

*OLD FORMULA:*

Low Ash White Fish Meal, Salmon, Potatoes, Sardine/Mackerel/Anchovy/Tuna Oils, Kelp, Hydrated Alfalfa Leaf Leaf, Potassium Chloride, Carrot, Watercress, Spinach, Celery, Parsley, Fennel Seed, Blueberries, Cranberries, Pears, Figs, Thyme, Anise Seed, Ground Cinnamon Bark, Fenugreek, Garlic Pieces, Sunflower Seeds, Sesame Seeds, Apples, Taurine, Spirulina, Choline Chloride, Lecithin, Probiotics: (Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Lactis, Bacillus Bifidum, Streptococcus Diacetilactis, Bacillus Subtillus), Taurine, Mixed Tocopherols (a source of vitamin E), Lysine, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Thiamine, Methionine, Carnitine, Niacin, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Iodine Proteinate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine (a source of vitamin B6), Copper Proteinate, Selenium Proteinate, Cobalt Proteinate, Papain, Yucca Schidigera Extract.

*NEW FORMULA:*

White Fish Meal, Salmon, Dried Potato Product, Chicken Fat, Salmon Oil, Natural Flavors, Dried Apples, Dried Blueberries, Dried Cranberries, Dried Figs, Ground Thyme, Ground Anise Seed, Ground Cinnamon, Ground Fenugreek, Dried Garlic, Ground Sunflower Seeds, Ground Sesame Seeds, Dried Kelp, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Dried Whey Product, Casein, Dried Carrots, Dried Celery, Dried Beets, Dried Parsley, Dried Lettuce, Dried Watercress, Dried Spinach, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Lecithin, Taurine, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Brewers Dried Yeast, Dried Saccharomyces cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium thermophilum Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium longum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Choline Chloride, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Vitamin E Supplement, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Copper Amino Acid Complex, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Cobalt Proteinate, Potassium Iodide, Sodium Selenite, Mixed Tocopherols (a natural preservative), Citric Acid, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Rosemary Extract.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

interesting! thanks for the info KM! i definitely do not like the changes they have made... and makes me even more sure of my decision to phase out the Ocean Blue kibble and feed the raw altogether. 

by the way, I gave Sam the Honest Kitchen samples i got for his dinner tonite and he loooved it... although its difficult to find a food he does not chow down in half a second, except for that Taste of the Wild food that he stopped eating altogether one day. I am thinking about getting some Honest Kitchen to have on hand to give to him every so often or if i forget to defrost some NV raw patties. one question though, it says to let it sit for 10 mins or so after putting the water in.. is it supposed to get REALLY thick and almost paste-like? not that it seemed to affect Sam's tastebuds one bit, but it looked really gross.. smelled good though lol


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

They went from Low Ash fish meal to normal fish meal and are using a dried potato product instead of potatoes. The alfalfa is also now a dehydrated and no longer has the 4 kinds of fish oil. It now has Rosemary extract too. There were sooooo many changes thats like changing food. Thats something to watch out for.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

i know it seems like something timberwolf should list on their site as a change, its not just one ingredient change its kind of a lot. but looking at their website now, i see no mention of it, not even on the ocean blue ordering page.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

i just contacted dogfoodanalysis.com and told them they should probably update their information on timberwolf kibbles and note any changes

on another note.. has anyone seen the new timberwolf canned foods they have now??


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Thats not good at all. I could see if the changes were improvements but I don't think they are. No I have not seen the canned products...... yet?


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

the canned foods look pretty decent to me... but i think i am definitely now committed to the raw foods... i was very happy with timberwolf but now i feel somewhat deceived. i dont know how they can make such changes and not inform their customers. i have ordered online from them before so i know they have my information, a mass email or heck, even an announcement on their homepage that some of their formulas have changed, would have been nice.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

on the upside, they are offering 10% off all dry foods on their site right now, so if anyone wants to buy more, now is the time to do it! lol


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## super_nova (Dec 9, 2007)

I am new here and from Australia, so please excuse me if this is a stupid question, but I looked in this threa expecting it to be about raw meaty bones and home made raw food. Do you all feed commercialised raw food or do you make your own? I have fed raw food (in australia we call it BARF - biologically appropriate raw food) and have never used any commercial raw food.


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## Goldilocks (Jun 3, 2007)

missmarstar said:


> I am thinking about getting some Honest Kitchen to have on hand to give to him every so often or if i forget to defrost some NV raw patties. one question though, it says to let it sit for 10 mins or so after putting the water in.. is it supposed to get REALLY thick and almost paste-like? not that it seemed to affect Sam's tastebuds one bit, but it looked really gross.. smelled good though lol



I always have a bag of Honest Kitchen in the house just incase the raw food doesn't defrost in time. (you can't defrost raw in the microwave and if you forget to take it out there's nothing for dinner!) Feeding raw is a bit more work in that you always have to plan ahead and be prepared.

My dog loves Honest Kitchen too. I find when I first add the water to it, it's quite soupy but after sitting it's more paste like. If I think it's too thick I add a small amount of warm water and stir just before feeding. I also keep a few cans of Wellness 95% meat in the house and I will add some to the Honest Kitchen. It says on the HK label that you can add 1/2 cup - 1 cup of your own meat or homemade ingredients. 

Another reason to have it is in case of emergency. If you ever had to evacuate your home with your pet you would need something to take to feed your dog. It would be hard to take along the raw patties, etc as they need to be refrigerated and kept frozen. For that reason alone, I feel the need to keep an emergency supply of HK in the house.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

BTW Goldilocks thanks for the PM! I cannot seem to find that food in the USA.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

super_nova said:


> I am new here and from Australia, so please excuse me if this is a stupid question, but I looked in this threa expecting it to be about raw meaty bones and home made raw food. Do you all feed commercialised raw food or do you make your own? I have fed raw food (in australia we call it BARF - biologically appropriate raw food) and have never used any commercial raw food.


 
the raw food i am currently feeding Sam is called Nature's Variety, and basically they are 95% raw meat, bones and organs and 5% fruits and veggies, packed into a convenient little patty. they are frozen until needed and they are AWESOME... and Sam loves them. they are more expensive than getting your own meats and such, but i am willing to pay more for the convenience and assurance that my dog is getting a balanced and complete diet without me having to do too much thinking about it... less chance for a screw up that way! haha


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

missmarstar said:


> interesting! thanks for the info KM! i definitely do not like the changes they have made... and makes me even more sure of my decision to phase out the Ocean Blue kibble and feed the raw altogether.
> 
> by the way, I gave Sam the Honest Kitchen samples i got for his dinner tonite and he loooved it... although its difficult to find a food he does not chow down in half a second, except for that Taste of the Wild food that he stopped eating altogether one day. I am thinking about getting some Honest Kitchen to have on hand to give to him every so often or if i forget to defrost some NV raw patties. one question though, it says to let it sit for 10 mins or so after putting the water in.. is it supposed to get REALLY thick and almost paste-like? not that it seemed to affect Sam's tastebuds one bit, but it looked really gross.. smelled good though lol


Yes, the Force comes out like THICK oatmeal.... more so than the Embark. You can add a little more water if you want ............ I usually use 1 cup Force to not quite 2 cups water. I also make double batches at night and refrigerate half for their am meal and these tend to be a little thicker........the dogs go for it either way!!!


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

i am having a hard time figuring out the difference between the force and embark formulas. i mean besides the meat being chicken in one and turkey in the other, is there any real difference?


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

The embark has a higher protein content and a slightly higher calorie count. From what I've read, this formula is especially helpful for performance dogs and also cancer dogs. 
I just found the booklet that came with my food and here is a condensed version of the food comparison ( probably on their website too)

FORCE: protein 21%; fat 14%; fiber 5.5%; carb 50%; calories 668/cup
EMBARK: pro 29%; fat 16%; fiber 9.6%; carb 35%; cal 729/ cup


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

so for a growing puppy, force may be more appropriate?


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## goldenluvX2 (Jun 19, 2007)

I switched Casey and Murphy to a Raw diet in July. Since then I've seen a wonderful 
difference in activity, coat, poops, you name it. Im very happy with what I'm seeing
in them. I feed them a 1/2 patty of Natures Variety twice a day along with pureed vegetables. Twice a 
week I'll scramble an egg each for them. Maybe somedays I'll give them a little cottage
cheese. I love it because I know exactly what they are eating. And it givesme such a kick
to watch them eat. It's a little more expensive and if I had anymore than 2 I'd probably
think about the cost a little more.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

yeah i get a kick out of watching Sam get SO excited for his food. granted he is VERY food motivated and gets excited for any food.. but i do think he is even more excited when i'm mashing up his defrosted meat before giving it to him... and when i made the honest kitchen food last night for him, he was going crazzzzy.. must be the smell, it smelled great!!

its kind of sad that my dog eats better than i do! ha!


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

missmarstar said:


> so for a growing puppy, force may be more appropriate?


 
Actually, from their literature, force is listed as "adult maintenance; sensitive dogs; moderate activity levels ............. embark says, " all life stages: puppies, pregnancy, lactation, active adult dogs." Like I said, I alternate since I buy the discounted twin packs ( 10 lb force/ 10 lb embark.............. quite a bit cheaper than buying each individually.) Their website has a ton of info Untitled Document .......... including links to some great holistic sites


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

i guess i was going off the idea that feeding growing large breed puppies higher protein foods is not necessarily the best idea...? i dont know if thats such a huge issue now that he is already 50 lbs and not quite growing so quickly as in the past few months...


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## norabrown (Jul 20, 2007)

I feed raw once a week. Plus I get raw bones. But with 3 dogs, as much as I'd love to go completely raw, I just can't afford it. I've also read a bit about B.A.R.F., but it would be expensive also. The Whole Dog Journal did several articles on feeding raw over several issues. It was very interesting. There are also some very good books out there on feeding raw.


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## soprano87 (May 19, 2006)

missmarstar said:


> I had started integrating nature's variety frozen raw patties into Sam's daily diet, usually giving him one meal of the raw, then one meal of his kibble. after a week or so of this, and noticing that on days he ate the raw, his poops were smaller, firmer, and less frequent,


MissMarStar, I'm so glad you asked about this, b/c I was coming on here to post the same question! 

We switched from Canine Caviar Venison & Split Pea (no grain) kibble to Nature's Variety raw lamb patties three weeks ago. Her poop is totally different, and we've actually been worried that she wasn't processing the food correctly. She used to go 2-3 times a day, pretty substantial. Now it's 1 *maybe* 2, and it's mostly small hard pieces. I'm not sure what that means, but I know Dr. Oz on Oprah says for humans that long pieces are better than small hard pieces! So we've been a little worried...

Our vet doesn't like raw food, and said that switching an adult dog (she's 21 months) might mean she can't process it b/c she hasn't been on it her whole life and it's too rich. I don't know if I buy that. 

Can any raw feeders attest to whether this poo is transitional, or just the normal type of poo for raw?

(I swear, the things I talk about for this dog!!)
Thanks!


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

no that is definitely normal and for the better!! when they go poo less and smaller, firmer poos at that, it is good! it basically means they are absorbing more of the nutrients from the raw food than their kibble, therefore have less waste to expell. Sam is doing GREAT on the raw food, it sounds like your doggie is too


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## soprano87 (May 19, 2006)

Well, that's good then, I suppose! I had never heard that, so we've been worried. The only other time that happened was when we switched her to teh Canine Caviar, which had no grains. About the same time, though, she was diagnosed with giardia, so we thought it was attributed to the parasite. Her poos went back to being more substantial after a couple weeks -- that's why we didn't know if this was normal or not. They're really dry at times, and light in color... It's bizarre.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

yup Sam's are the same way. its nice though that he only poos once or twice a day now... makes for much easier clean up as well. its way better for them to be firm and small, than all wet and runny.. means things are all workin correctly in their systems..


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## soprano87 (May 19, 2006)

Hmmm... well, they were never wet and runny on kibble. Just larger and less hard!


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## Frank the Tank (Aug 28, 2006)

super_nova said:


> I am new here and from Australia, so please excuse me if this is a stupid question, but I looked in this threa expecting it to be about raw meaty bones and home made raw food. Do you all feed commercialised raw food or do you make your own? I have fed raw food (in australia we call it BARF - biologically appropriate raw food) and have never used any commercial raw food.


I feed the BARF diet as well and make it myself. I started out with pre-made raw food and after doing some research found that it is not hard to make your own and it MUCH cheaper to make your own. The pre-made is very convenient and if you can afford it I think it is a great thing.


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