# Anyone tried Earthborn Holistic grain free yet?



## artbuc (Apr 12, 2009)

Check out this thread from Dogster:

http://www.dogster.com/forums/Food_and_Nutrition/thread/644440/1


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## unclelar (Oct 10, 2009)

I am not familiar with this food but I am always interested in better foods so I looked at their web site. 
Primitive Natural has 717 calories per cup compared to about 370 for TOW which we have fed and my two would not eat.
Their feeding guidelines and for Primitive Natural (717 calories) it says 65 to 80lbs feed 2 3/4 to 3 1/4/.
The Adult Vantage line has 472 calories per cup and it recommends feeding 66 to 85lbs feed 2 1/2 to 3 cups per day. 
I don't under stand more calories equals more food? (I'd be on a different diet today)


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## artbuc (Apr 12, 2009)

unclelar said:


> I am not familiar with this food but I am always interested in better foods so I looked at their web site.
> Primitive Natural has 717 calories per cup compared to about 370 for TOW which we have fed and my two would not eat.
> Their feeding guidelines and for Primitive Natural (717 calories) it says 65 to 80lbs feed 2 3/4 to 3 1/4/.
> The Adult Vantage line has 472 calories per cup and it recommends feeding 66 to 85lbs feed 2 1/2 to 3 cups per day.
> I don't under stand more calories equals more food? (I'd be on a different diet today)


Just looked at Ocean Fusion on their web page. Only 22% protein and 12% fat. Yet, they claim 4356kcal/kg. These numbers seem very "fishy" to me. They must be using a different method to determine caloric content?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

JMHO, I don't try anything "new and different" on my dogs. I wait until it's been around a long time and is proven. 
Again, JMO.


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## unclelar (Oct 10, 2009)

What they are not listing is Carbs. There could be a considerable amount of carbs which would translate to calories. 

Also fiber in Primitive is 2.4 while in the other two it is 4%. This could reduce the "Net" carb percentage lowering the calories. Most nutrition threads I have read don't want less then 3% fiber.

Again I don't know about the quality of the food these are just things that pop out and make you go "HUH?"


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

unclelar said:


> I am not familiar with this food but I am always interested in better foods so I looked at their web site.
> Primitive Natural has 717 calories per cup compared to about 370 for TOW which we have fed and my two would not eat.
> Their feeding guidelines and for Primitive Natural (717 calories) it says 65 to 80lbs feed 2 3/4 to 3 1/4/.
> The Adult Vantage line has 472 calories per cup and it recommends feeding 66 to 85lbs feed 2 1/2 to 3 cups per day.
> I don't under stand more calories equals more food? (I'd be on a different diet today)



Wow I have never seen a dog kibble with over 700 calories per cup... maybe its a typo on the site??? and to feed about 3 cups of that per day seems like way too much for that size range.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

My dogs would look Macy's balloons if they were fed 3 cups of 700 cal/cup food. Holy moly!!!!


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## lammer29 (Feb 21, 2008)

I only looked at the ingredients... bad mommy. I am emailing them to inquire as to the high calorie count. The bag does not state calories, and to be honest, since I am stillmixing it with the TOW, I have just given them about 1/4 twice/day. I would definitely have to reduce the feeding amount to continue on its own. The girls seem to like it, Maisies hasn't refused to eat since I started feeding with it.I am not sure how ling they have been around, so not sure if new or I just wasn't familiar.Now I don't know if I keep them on grain free, this was the only other one I could find that was reasonably priced besides TOW, but if they won't eat it, it doesn't matter how inexpensive it is!Maybe I'll just switch to the fish flavor of TOW, the venison gave them both such horrible gas, and I think that originally I hesitated to feed the fish formula as they hadn't declared the fish was e free. But neither does this company make that claim, so I guess that is out the window.I 'll let you know what the company has to say, thanks so much for all your input, I need some guidance lately... a bit overwhelmed with my life. This site is always so helpful...


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## unclelar (Oct 10, 2009)

lammer29 said:


> I only looked at the ingredients... bad mommy. I am emailing them to inquire as to the high calorie count. The bag does not state calories, and to be honest, since I am stillmixing it with the TOW, I have just given them about 1/4 twice/day. I would definitely have to reduce the feeding amount to continue on its own. The girls seem to like it, Maisies hasn't refused to eat since I started feeding with it.I am not sure how ling they have been around, so not sure if new or I just wasn't familiar.Now I don't know if I keep them on grain free, this was the only other one I could find that was reasonably priced besides TOW, but if they won't eat it, it doesn't matter how inexpensive it is!Maybe I'll just switch to the fish flavor of TOW, the venison gave them both such horrible gas, and I think that originally I hesitated to feed the fish formula as they hadn't declared the fish was e free. But neither does this company make that claim, so I guess that is out the window.I 'll let you know what the company has to say, thanks so much for all your input, I need some guidance lately... a bit overwhelmed with my life. This site is always so helpful...


Not bad mommy.....You care enough to look and ask questions, I once fed mine food I wouldn't leave out for a stray. (I'd feed the stray it just would be better food). I think their in good hands.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

lammer29 said:


> Now I don't know if I keep them on grain free, this was the only other one I could find that was reasonably priced besides TOW, but if they won't eat it, it doesn't matter how inexpensive it is!



Just a question.. how long did they refuse the TOTW? Sometimes switching up their food everytime they act a little picky just makes them pickier! 

Honestly I would kind of give them a little tough love here.. if TOTW worked well for them and is in your budget, I'd feed them that. Put the food down for 10 minutes, what they don't eat, they don't get again until the next meal. I venture to say they will quickly learn that they better eat when their food is put down and stop being so picky.

You could try rotating the different formulas of TOTW if you like and that may help too.


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## lammer29 (Feb 21, 2008)

This is the response that I got from the company



> Thank you for your interest in Earthborn Holistic Natural food for dogs. Yes, 717 kilo-calories per cup is the correct listing for our Earthborn Holistic food. The formula contains a lot of meat and is high in protein which accounts for the high calories. Fiber is found in a variety of sources, but in pet foods, it comes primarily from plants and grains present in the food. Almost all carbohydrate sources will contain some fiber. Some of the most common sources of fiber in pet foods include rice hulls, corn and corn by-products, soybean hulls, beet pulp, bran, peanut hulls and pectin. Since Primitive Natural is a grain-free food it is lower in fiber. Fiber is not considered an essential nutrient in the diet of cats and dogs, but it is present in almost every commercial pet diet. Pets do not derive any energy from fiber, however, there are benefits of having fiber in the diet. We offer Primitive Natural as an option for pet owners wanting to feed a grain-free diet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Not much more info, I am still feeding it an dthe girls are eating it welll, just less of what I would have given of any of the other grain free or anything else for that matter. I don't know how long i will feed it. I just know that Maisie would sniff the bowl and walk away during the last few weeks on the TOW. She didn't care much if I took it away for the day. She had never done that before with any other food I have given.This from the dog that was on Ol' Roy when I got her.I don't know if I should switch back to a grain product or what i'll do. Wish finances weren't a factor, but since my situation has changed drastically it is a big factor in what I will feed while keeping their health and well being in mind.They like this, i just hope they don't get too pudgy or feel hungry on the lesser amount I am feeding.​


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## LOVEisGOLDEN (Jan 4, 2008)

I picked up a bag of this today. still searching & deciding whether or not to try it on Blush. She is currently on TOTW:HP due to her celiac disease. I like that the earthborn contains chicken fat, rather than TOTWs canola oil. 

am concerned about the fiber though, since she has anal gland issues...


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## teri4now (Apr 23, 2010)

I have been feeding my black lab/boxer mix Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural for about 5 months now. She absolutely loves it, but after reading what I have on this forum I am not surprised that she has gained about 10 pounds. I checked their website, it says there are 717 kilo-calories per cup, which when calculated as 'normal' calories is 717,000. WHAT?? Maybe I don't understand, are calories different for dogs than they are for humans? It just so happens we have a vet appt. today and I am going to ask about it. I thought I was doing the right thing, mostly meat and berries, etc., in this food instead of who knows what. I will say, it has made her virtually gas free, and her stools are much less frequent and solid. I hate to change it, she loves the food and the side effects are a great benefit, but if the vet says she is way too much overweight I will have no choice. I'd like to know other healty options from you guys, because I am sure the vet will try to push something on me that they sell there.
Thanks!!!


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## LOVEisGOLDEN (Jan 4, 2008)

I still feed taste of the wild to Blush & Professional to Layla, am happy with both.


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## K9 Passion (Jan 2, 2009)

Because it's such a nutrient dense food, just feed less to prevent weight gain. Feeding less is one advantage of nutrient dense nutrition.


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## teri4now (Apr 23, 2010)

The vet said she could stand to loose 3 lbs. LOL! She's 98 lbs., so I'm not as concerned now. Although I do think that I need to look into exactly how much my daughter feeds her. She is 'her' dog, we adopted her from the pound for her birthday in November. We couldn't have gotten a better dog! I feel sad for the family that had to give her up. It was a couple with a toddler and a newborn, and the dad lost his job. She was VERY well trained, just an exceptional dog!! Anyway, she is fed 3 times a day: 1 cup in the morning, 2 cups after school, 1 cup at dinner time. This follows the chart on the bag for her weight, giving her 4 cups a day. However, my daughter's 'cups' are probably bigger than an actual measuring cup amount. We just use a small plastic cup to scoop it out. I am going to put a measuring scoop in there instead, see if that helps. I haven't measured the actual amount in the cup we are using, but I imagine it's more. Thanks for the advice, and if this doesn't work, I will be switching to Taste of the Wild as I have already researched it online, thanks to you all.
Teri


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

missmarstar said:


> Wow I have never seen a dog kibble with over 700 calories per cup... maybe its a typo on the site??? and to feed about 3 cups of that per day seems like way too much for that size range.


That's what I was thinking too. And if it's really kilo-calories that means it's that much more regular calories...

I'm thinking they mean regular calories, otherwise you'd be feeding tablespoons of the food per day...

Lana


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Bender said:


> That's what I was thinking too. And if it's really kilo-calories that means it's that much more regular calories...
> 
> I'm thinking they mean regular calories, otherwise you'd be feeding tablespoons of the food per day...
> 
> Lana


In America, the convention is to list the unit on food as "Cal" or "calories," but in scientific literature and most of the rest of the world, the same unit is kcal or kilocalorie. 

Just drop the "kilo" and you're fine.


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

teri4now said:


> The vet said she could stand to loose 3 lbs. LOL! She's 98 lbs., so I'm not as concerned now. Although I do think that I need to look into exactly how much my daughter feeds her. She is 'her' dog, we adopted her from the pound for her birthday in November. We couldn't have gotten a better dog! I feel sad for the family that had to give her up. It was a couple with a toddler and a newborn, and the dad lost his job. She was VERY well trained, just an exceptional dog!! *Anyway, she is fed 3 times a day: 1 cup in the morning, 2 cups after school, 1 cup at dinner time. This follows the chart on the bag for her weight, giving her 4 cups a day.* However, my daughter's 'cups' are probably bigger than an actual measuring cup amount. We just use a small plastic cup to scoop it out. I am going to put a measuring scoop in there instead, see if that helps. I haven't measured the actual amount in the cup we are using, but I imagine it's more. Thanks for the advice, and if this doesn't work, I will be switching to Taste of the Wild as I have already researched it online, thanks to you all.
> Teri


To me, that seems like a lot of food especially at over 700 calories a cup! Quite often the chart on the bag is a gross overestimate of what the dog really needs.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Our highly active dogs get around 1400-2000 a day, not including treats, and while they're very trim, it's hard for me to imagine a dog getting over 3000 a day without getting fat or running marathons.


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## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

teri4now said:


> The vet said she could stand to loose 3 lbs. LOL! She's 98 lbs., so I'm not as concerned now. Although I do think that I need to look into exactly how much my daughter feeds her. She is 'her' dog, we adopted her from the pound for her birthday in November. We couldn't have gotten a better dog! I feel sad for the family that had to give her up. It was a couple with a toddler and a newborn, and the dad lost his job. She was VERY well trained, just an exceptional dog!! Anyway, she is fed 3 times a day: 1 cup in the morning, 2 cups after school, 1 cup at dinner time. This follows the chart on the bag for her weight, giving her 4 cups a day. However, my daughter's 'cups' are probably bigger than an actual measuring cup amount. We just use a small plastic cup to scoop it out. I am going to put a measuring scoop in there instead, see if that helps. I haven't measured the actual amount in the cup we are using, but I imagine it's more. Thanks for the advice, and if this doesn't work, I will be switching to Taste of the Wild as I have already researched it online, thanks to you all.
> Teri


Holy cow!! If I fed my dogs anywhere near 4 cups a day they would be blimps. Mind you, mine are only 60 lbs but they only eat 1 2/3 cups a day of Evo, which is still a pretty high calorie food at 4?? per cup.


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## teri4now (Apr 23, 2010)

I totally agree. I think that she is getting way too many calories per day. 2800 since she gets 4 cups. I have put a normal measuring scoop in the bag now so I know she is getting the right amount and not just a general idea of something close. She doesn't get any treats, other than, say, steak bones. No store bought treats at this time anyway. And never table food. I wouldn't say she is a a highly active dog, she sleeps most of the day until my kids get out of school, then they take her outside for a while... I wish there was a place around here that was fenced in so I could just let her RUN!!!!! She's incredibly fast, freakishly so! LOL! So, I know if she actually took off after say a bird, cat, whatever, it would take her only seconds to be long gone. That scares me, and so, unless it's to go out to 'potty' she's always on the retractable leash. Probably more exercise would lighten her load.


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