# Too old to be biting?



## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Bumping up


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## CAgirlinIA (Dec 22, 2017)

Thanks Carolina Mom but I'm not clear on what you mean by "bumping up"


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

CAgirlinIA said:


> Thanks Carolina Mom but I'm not clear on what you mean by "bumping up"


By posting "bumping up", it brought your thread back to the top of recent discussions/active threads to help get views and replies.


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

Rukie went through a little stage of biting when he was 12 months old and we were out in the yard. It had something to do with using the hose and him getting so excited he would jump and bite. It was a little scary. We really didn't have a great way of dealing with it. We tried making him sit, telling him no bite, etc. He eventually outgrew it. I think it was over excitement and immaturity. Another thing that helps is getting out and letting him really run hard for 10 to 20 minutes. It helps keep him calmer. I don't know if that's possible in Iowa now. I wish I had helpful advice. If there was a trainer in your area they might be able to help you work on this problem even if it is infrequent.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

OK, my input:
puppy + excitement + play=biting, 10 months is still a puppy


inappropriate trainer response + inability to recognize problem biting=prolonged biting behavior

Biting in a puppy is one thing that I address immediately. And to be honest I will be "positive" and "non aversive" for only so long. My dogs stop biting before 10 months. After the biting stops we will play a little rough, I allow some play biting so that I have an opportunity to give an occasional "ah-ah" to maintain bite inhibition.

It is my opinion that many people would do well to identify a potential problem with biting. To be honest when I tried to do methods like the "ouch" and then ignore I had a puppy that still bit and I had a hand with scratches and welts and I was using cortisone cream a lot. Once I changed my focus to "This puppy will stop biting" things changed.


If you ever get the chance, watch puppies in a whelping box, watch the mother around the puppies. There is a lot to be learned by watching them interact.


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## David Pearson (Aug 30, 2018)

Stuart is a biter, he is not a land shark, he was a Pirana at 9 weeks. I watch him get corrected by his mother many times in the whelping boxes, he would just sit there and stare back at his mother in defiance. Stuart is very high energy coming from a field line. 

Ouch does not work in my case. No does not work, he will just stare at you then bite again. The best way I learn to correct Stuart was the word No then to the time out box. Once he clam down, I remove him from timeout. Sitting and stay is now helping, also fetching and running circles in the yard helps a lot. The biting has drop by 50% in two weeks. We still play hard, but he does not bite down as hard, showing bite inhibition. 


Did I tell you he will lick the sour tasting no chew spray like it is nothing.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

If this were my puppy, I would adopt a policy of ZERO tolerance with teeth on skin. It's time. As Gdigli mentioned, your mindset needs to get very serious and become "This puppy WILL stop biting." The puppy will still love you, but he's not cute little fluff ball anymore, he's quickly becoming a liability for the safety of anyone in your home, family or visitor. I very much agree that it's excitement and play but it's still got to stop now.

I would have him drag a short, cheap walmart leash when he is being supervised in the house. You can use the lead to gain control of him the minute this behavior starts. He needs to know that you mean business. Try to be aware of his triggers and body language so that you can try to head it off before it starts if at all possible. A timeout to the crate is certainly a great place to start. 

I know that you have been to puppy class, but Goldens need to be given daily, on leash obedience practice for the first year or two. It helps him understand what you expect of him and establishes that your role is leader and his role is follower. You can start now with the simple commands that he already knows. Is he food motivated? Have a baggy of treats in your pocket at all times = have a tupperware of treats stashed around the house in convenient places so that anytime he is exhibiting good behavior, you can reward it. We're talking simple, simple good behavior - four feet on the floor, walking nicely with you, laying quietly somewhere (drop the treat right between his paws to keep him laying down.) 

Practice down/stays and begin teaching him "leave it". There are great you tube videos to help you. Your puppy needs to learn stronger self control and you can help him. As the duration of down/stays lengthen you can put him in a down/stay while you fix his meal and he doesn't get to move until you release him. Build up slowly until you can put his food on the floor at a distance and then closer and he won't move to begin eating until released. At his age he is more than capable of developing this kind of control.

If you can't find an obedience class that starts till spring, I would strongly consider getting a private trainer to come to your home and help you in the meantime. You don't have time to waste. It won't be cheap but just 3 lessons could really get you pointed in the right direction.

Part of the problem (as someone else pointed out) is probably his lack of aerobic exercise. Leash walks are not exercise for an adolescent Golden. They just aren't. You playing with him is good, but it's just not enough at his age. Teaching him a formal retrieve would really be a good skill to develop. Sound Beginnings is a DVD by Jackie Mertens and gives you the basics to start. https://www.gundogsupply.com/sobere...MI_IvayOSV3wIVEovICh1GUQjGEAQYASABEgKUSfD_BwE He should be learning to retrieve, return to your side and sit and give you the ball and waiting while you throw it again. It's the best exercise in the world (next to retrieving in water/swimming) for exercising a young Golden. He should have the instincts, it's just up to you to develop them and build them into something he loves. It will serve you well all his life.

He needs 30 minutes of aerobic exercise that leaves him panting and tired every day to help him be healthy mentally and physically. It's not something that most people can do just playing tug in the living room. 

I hope you will try getting a trainer to help you with some private lessons, there are also some things you can work on with youtube videos: 




https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF26FD559887E7EA4

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qnqaajTk6bfs3UZuue6IQ


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## jdavisryan (Jan 28, 2018)

I’ve been following this post with interest because Woody is almost 6 months old and is still pretty mouthy when we play outside and he gets overexcited. I haven’t considered it “biting” because he’s not applying pressure, but he jumps and grabs at our arms or hands with his mouth. Nothing seems to deter him so I usually have to end the game. This almost always coincides with a case of the zoomies. I’ve been thinking he’ll grow out of it but maybe we should adopt a zero tolerance policy now? He’s doing well in obedience class and getting plenty of off-leash exercise (or so I thought.)


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

jdavisryan said:


> I’ve been following this post with interest because Woody is almost 6 months old and is still pretty mouthy when we play outside and he gets overexcited. I haven’t considered it “biting” because he’s not applying pressure, but he jumps and grabs at our arms or hands with his mouth. Nothing seems to deter him so I usually have to end the game. This almost always coincides with a case of the zoomies. I’ve been thinking he’ll grow out of it but maybe we should adopt a zero tolerance policy now? He’s doing well in obedience class and getting plenty of off-leash exercise (or so I thought.)


It is 100% normal high spirits. Zoomies are acceptable forms of expressing exuberance and burning off excess energy. Your puppy's antics are excitement and high spirits. But that doesn't mean it should be allowed. It is absolutely time to have zero tolerance for anything that resembles him opening his mouth and putting teeth on human skin. No matter how gentle he is. 

A young dog who puts teeth on one person will put teeth on others, some people find this extremely intimidating and frightening even if it's playing. If your dog ever made a mistake and accidentally broke skin, you have a hard time explaining that it's not a bite. Especially if it happened with a person who you doesn't know your dog. Or a child. Or an elderly person. It's just not a habit you want to go any farther.

We want our mouthy retrievers to learn from the get go that teeth on human skin is absolutely not acceptable. It can keep your dog and you out of a lot of potential trouble and upsets down the road.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

If you have concerns about biting behaviors in your dog, I strongly suggest you contact a certified reward based trainer, who a) can actually observe what is going on, and b) help you understand and read your dog's body language so that you can predict when it may happen and take steps to prevent it, and c) guide you through the process of teaching your dog what you want him to do instead of the unwanted behavior.


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## jdavisryan (Jan 28, 2018)

[QUOTE=nolefan;7683324

It is 100% normal high spirits. Zoomies are acceptable forms of expressing exuberance and burning off excess energy. Your puppy's antics are excitement and high spirits. But that doesn't mean it should be allowed. It is absolutely time to have zero tolerance for anything that resembles him opening his mouth and putting teeth on human skin. No matter how gentle he is. 

A young dog who puts teeth on one person will put teeth on others, some people find this extremely intimidating and frightening even if it's playing. If your dog ever made a mistake and accidentally broke skin, you have a hard time explaining that it's not a bite. Especially if it happened with a person who you doesn't know your dog. Or a child. Or an elderly person. It's just not a habit you want to go any farther.

We want our mouthy retrievers to learn from the get go that teeth on human skin is absolutely not acceptable. It can keep your dog and you out of a lot of potential trouble and upsets down the road.[/QUOTE

Thanks for putting it so clearly for me. He’s still a puppy but I understand we need to get this under control before it becomes a habit. Woody is our fourth Golden but the first to come home to an empty-nest household - no older dogs to wrestle with or kids to help burn off some energy. I thought we had experienced it all but now I feel like we’re learning all over again. Any suggestions for an effective correction? So far, ignoring him doesn’t work. He just takes it up a notch. A big loud “no!” stops him briefly. I try to incorporate obedience commands with some success but sometimes he’s just too wound up. Time out?


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## CAgirlinIA (Dec 22, 2017)

Wow!! I came onto this thread to "bump it up" again as I hadn't had an email telling me anyone (else) had replied so I was very pleasantly surprised to see all the responses. THANK YOU ALL!!


I have a feeling I should have posted this a couple months ago but it only recently started to intensify. Not with frequency but with firmness. During our puppy training (which was in October = 5 mos. at the time) I expressed a concern to the trainer, but she dismissed it as being a puppy mouthing so not a big deal; he'd grow out of it. I TOTALLY AGREE ON ACCEPTING A ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY. I have had two Goldens in the past and do not recall having this issue before...but that might also be a faulty memory.


I've located a short check line that I'll attach when he's in the house. We HAVE been training throughout the day with sit and down stays and we do some heeling upstairs in that room I mentioned. But I do see the need for more aerobic activity. Yesterday we went to a snow-covered ball field and played fetch and today he had an hour long play date with my neighbor's 3 Y/O female Golden. I do notice a marked difference when he has a playdate  We have a fantastic recreation area with woods and prairies that we go to once a week at least, using a longer check line but he explores more than runs, staying very close to me. We have a large fenced yard which is great and I TRY to play with him outside during the day. BUT it's been pretty bleak and cold in NE Iowa and I can be a wus. And speaking of NE Iowa, I have to wear heavy gloves when we go for walks as I have Reynaud's and trying to dig treats out of a pouch or pocket with gloves on is nearly impossible. Today on our morning walk we met two different people - both men - and although the pup started to climb up on them and mouth them I pulled him off, made him sit and calm down and THEN he was able to be petted. (I am not naming my puppy because I don't want anyone to recognize him lol!). When I got home from our walk, I said to my husband that we were not going to allow him up in his lap anymore (my husband HAS encouraged this at times).


OK, sorry to drone on. I will most certainly be checking out the videos and websites mentioned, continue with my training and up his aerobic activity. He's a great dog and very smart (and maybe just a little bit stubborn). If I can't get a handle on this myself, I'll seek out a private trainer (that can be my Christmas present lol).


Again.....thanks so much everyone. Great advise! (you know who you are)


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## CAgirlinIA (Dec 22, 2017)

From jdavisryan Any suggestions for an effective correction? So far, ignoring him doesn’t work. He just takes it up a notch. A big loud “no!” stops him briefly.

Me too.....effective corrections?


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Honestly I don't think loud is the answer as much as you want to concentrate on tone, make your voice more deep, low, gruff and sharp, make eye contact and be stern. 
"Eh-Eh" "Shame on you" and grab the leash (not the collar) and shorten up the leash quickly and if you have to you can step on the leash. Put a stop to the behavior and quickly change what's happening, walkk along at a brisk pace so he has to walk along with you and as soon as he has 4 feet on the ground, reward with a treat on his nose. If you're in the house, put him in his crate with an appropriate chew item. Give him a chance to calm down.

I have nothing but sympathy for an Iowa winter and trying to get outdoors with the Reynaud's, maybe you can think of a way to carry treats (maybe in some kind of an over the shoulder bag?) that would be easier, or a can of cheese whiz where you could squirt a little out on the tip and let him lick it off. Then stick the can back in your coat pocket or in the bag. Or a small single serving of dog or cat food that you could keep wrapped in a baggie and let him lick at. 

A play session with another nice young dog once or twice a week is a huge help as it sounds like you're aware, maybe try networking with anyone you can think of who would be willing to try playdates. I've stopped complete strangers walking in my neighborhood because they had a young Golden. I have made a couple friends over the years this way and the playdates benefited everyone involved. 

If your husband likes having your dog on his lap, I don't see why you shouldn't eventually get to a point where the dog is allowed up when he is invited. It would be a while, but a smart Golden can learn easily that certain things are permitted but only when invited.


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## CAgirlinIA (Dec 22, 2017)

@ nolefan - Just got back from the woods/prairie park and, although it was cold, it was an excellent outing! I loaded up an old fanny pack, lengthened the straps and wore it across my body and it worked pretty good (still cumbersome but better than digging out of pockets). I like the cheese wiz idea (and I know he would too!). It is amazing to me how close he stays to me out there on his check line (although we haven't seen a deer or rabbit yet!)...I can't even play hide and seek! He did finally get the zoomies in the prairie and had a good run.....in a circle around me, lol.


Believe it or not I am already seeing improvement with him wearing the short check line in the house, but he HAS had some good activity the last 3 days. I had an opportunity to correct him when we got back while I was taking off my snow boots....then made him sit and stay. 


I'm going to give "this" till the end of the year before I seek a professional. Really, he's so smart I think he'll get it.

Thanks again for all the great advise!!!


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