# fun with birds today



## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Sounds like an awesome session


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Wow, those are some great drills! I will have to use the last one (for speed up) though Dooley isn't real bad, I do want to keep his pace up on the return (like you see with the real powerful field dogs).


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Sounds like FUN! Good stuff.
I gotta ask though, I know you have done some baseball casting and sight blinds but there are LOTS of steps between those and running cold blinds. Those only teach part of the mechanics needed and none of the mentality necessary to prepare the dog for cold blinds. You may see some initial success but jumping right into it and skipping those steps is a recipe for failure. I'm hoping you've misunderstood Dan's instructions with this. The program I'm following with Slater (that I write about in the other thread) is standard fare for teaching a dog blinds by a modern method and as you can see there are a lot of steps we are still working on, and more to come, before I ever ask Slater to run a true cold blind.
I know Dan isn't big on holding blinds in the field but they can be quite useful when you are running your singles. Put several holding blinds in field but only one thrower. Throw the mark and see if the dog will not head swing to another holding blind. Have the gunner walk to a different holding blind for a different mark when the dog is returning. Throw another single. The other holding blinds will certainly cause the dog to headswing because he anticipates another mark from them. This is called "Singles off of multiple guns" and is a staple in the training bag of hunt testers and field trial trainers alike. How's the weather up there? We would like some rain down here in the tropics, please, our ponds are drying up, pretty soon we'll be able to SEE the alligators....


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Ditto what Anney said! 

Well before we moved onto true cold blinds, my dogs have gone from the pile, to the T/TT, then to pattern blinds, and blind drill, and then to what Sandie, the pro I sometimes day-train with calls "seeded" blinds. We just take a whack load of birds out, spread them out in a line across the opposite side of the field about 20 yards apart, ensure the wind is at our backs, and send the dog without worrying too much about a precise direction because it is a target rich environment. Sit them, get them to look out, cue them, and send. The dog has a high chance of success, and is likely to get a bird without having to be hacked all over the field to get to one precise spot. So this gives you an opportunity to stop and cast the dog a couple of times (but the key is not to stop too much as you want the dog to develop confident momentum) and in all likelihood cast onto a bird, or to let the dog roll if they are taking a good line and going with some conviction (which helps to build that confidence and momentum). It really helps the dog to believe there is something out there when you say "dead bird", and we always do it with birds because of the reward value. Once they are coming to line eagerly, looking out well and locking in on the "dead" cue then we reduce the number of birds and spread them out and start working a little more on those precision lining and casting skills. And after that it is a steady diet of of blinds with concepts--lots of 3-peats there so that those leassons really sink in.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm reading what Anney and Shelly said, and I'm thinking that I haven't described at all what I'm doing with him, you're picturing something MUCH MUCH more advanced than what we did this morning. Probably because I called it an intro to cold blinds, which was probably like calling kindergarten an intro. to law school.
Here's what we did last week with Dan (and we were building on that today)
Dan walked out about 30-50 yards, with a big white stake in his hand, and a bird. Planted the stake, swung the bird around a few times with Tito watching, then dropped the bird in front of the stake. 
Next he walked off to his left, and did the same thing with another stake, so the 2 birds were at about 90 degree angles from each other about 50 yards apart.
Repeated that with a third bird and stake. Sort of like a semi-circle with Tito and me in the middle.
Then I lined or casted Tito to each stake, one at a time, where he "discovered" the bird that he already knew was there because he saw Dan put it there.
This week the building on that was a single stake, in mid-calf length cover, flat field, about 20 yards from us.
For the first bird, my friend walked out and planted the stake, swung the bird around a bit just like Dan had done, dropped it in front of the stake, and then walked about 20 feet away. I lined Tito to the stake, and while he was in motion away from me, I backed up 10 yards. 
When Tito was on the way back with the bird, my friend quickly ran out and planted another bird there while Tito's back was to him. 
I lined him to the bird, and we repeated it again, my backing up 10 yards, and him racing in there to plant another bird.
This time, however, I stopped Tito in front of me and then cast him back to the bird/stake. 
We did this quite a few times, until we were about 100 yards on the last one. Alternated lining/casting, but these were straight back casts. The bird/stake were always in the same place, I just backed further away in a straight line.
So that's what we did, it was really pretty elementary probably compared to what you guys were picturing! The drill probably has a name??????
The singles off the multiples guns sounds like an AWESOME drill for us. Now to find someone with some blinds....well Dan has them, of course, but I don't tell him what drills I want to run 
It has rained here pretty much non-stop for a week, you are more than welcome to our rain. We've gotten 5 inches of the stuff in the past week, and it's sprinkling now as I write. Supposed to rain all weekend, too. BUT it's cool and that's awesome for training, at least I don't worry about overheating him. I think Anney should come up here and train with me, errr, train me! Fisher/Slater would love our weather!
Shelly, I love the "seeded blinds" and I'm going to do that for sure. I have a freezer full of dead birds right now, and I can do that one without any help from anyone!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

When you are done with Anney, send her to Oregon, would you? And don't tire her out, I'm going to need her alot!


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

If she's coming to Oregon she better stop in Idaho--it is on the way 

I am jealous! I need to do some more training but I am choosing fun match this weekend over field training *cough* *cough*


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> Probably because I called it an intro to cold blinds, which was probably like calling kindergarten an intro. to law school.


Now THAT is funny 



> This week the building on that was a single stake, in mid-calf length cover, flat field, about 20 yards from us.
> For the first bird, my friend walked out and planted the stake, swung the bird around a bit just like Dan had done, dropped it in front of the stake, and then walked about 20 feet away. I lined Tito to the stake, and while he was in motion away from me, I backed up 10 yards.
> When Tito was on the way back with the bird, my friend quickly ran out and planted another bird there while Tito's back was to him.
> I lined him to the bird, and we repeated it again, my backing up 10 yards, and him racing in there to plant another bird.
> ...


Okay now that makes sense. I think you might could call this a sight blind? The dog can see the white stake and see the birds planted. 
First off is there a particular reason you're using birds rather than a pile of bumpers? Sure the dog likes birds but as you can see, training only with birds on blinds gets cumbersome, especially if you are running multiple dogs or the blind multiple times. As a rule we don't use birds on blinds very often (maybe 1 out of 100 blinds) in training because the ants will get them before the dog does! Anyways, unless you've got a particular reason to use a bird for these, just drop a bunch of bumpers at the stake so you don't have to "reload" every time.
Basically what this blind is doing is teaching the dog to run to a stake (a valuable skill!) and teaching him to go on "Back" without having seen a bird drop from the sky. There are real limits to it's use though, and I would warn against doing too much of this. The dog can very quickly become dependent on the white stake, take the stake away and the dog is completely clueless. Since he doesn't know how to really run blinds yet, you have nothing to go back on if he makes mistakes. Seeing the dog be successful on sight blinds is nice but it is a VERY false sense of security. It doesn't mean the dog can run blinds or has confidence running blinds, it means the dog can run to a visible object. 
There are slight variations of this I like, and once Tito understands the game of run to the white stake, you can make some good use of it. One is the "swish" drill (in Carol Cassity's book) where you can plant the stake in the middle of a field and send the dog to it from various locations. He can look out and see the stake but you can get in some "blinds" over various terrains, obstacles, etc. 
Another thing you can start with this skill is sort of a "sight blind drill" which is more useful than just running to a stake. Plant the stake & bumpers, send the dog to it once or twice. Put your thrower out in the field and have him throw single mark. Have the thrower stand still, and now turn and send the dog again to the stake. Bet you can get some handling in!!!! You can change the relationship of the thrower to the stake to make it easier or more difficult. This more mimics the mentality of a true blind, as there will be suction you have to handle off of.
The only part of your initial post that didn't jive with this is when you said Tito has a tendency to break down and hunt during this drill, which to me didn't make much sense, but does make sense if you are trying to do cold blinds (because really, the dog has no idea yet what he's supposed to do, and hunting around in cover is usually a productive activity for him!). If he is doing ANYTHING but running straight to the stake on these sight blinds, you should be able to correct it with the tools you already have. If he is traveling in the wrong direction, you can stop and give back or over casts to get him to the stake. If he stops and hunts or otherwise wanders off, you need to force en route to change his mind that he needs to stay on task.
Hey you guys find me a golden specialty or other breed national specialty to be a vendor at in your neck of the woods and I will be happy to bestow my meager field knowledge on ya! LOL


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Goldens are notorious for a slow return with the last bird of a series. It's kind of their nature and I doubt you can do much to change it. They'll fly out and back with the go bird and/or middle bird, and fly out to the memory bird, but once they have it they're going to take their time and savor the moment on the return. That's just who they are as a breed. (They need to give you lots of time for that Kodak moment.)

Trying to force a speedy return with the memory bird might cause you more trouble than it's worth.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Oh and about white stakes --- I love them but --- BUT --- only use them in particular instances. One is early on before the dog is running any cold blinds, to teach them that a white stake will have bumpers at the bottom of it (jackpot!).
I do not use a stake for any pile work OR pattern blinds. For pattern blinds I want the dog to look out and see NOTHING but still go when sent with confidence.
When a dog is FIRST learning cold blinds I will use a white stake BUT ---- I START with LONG blinds. The dog really cannot see the stake from where he is sent. But he gets halfway out and sees it and has that eureka moment like WOOHOO I knew I was out here for a reason! Very much like the seeded blinds Shelly talked about. I still use white stakes occasionally with our big dogs, if the blinds are really long or have something quite difficult in the first half of the blind, the dog has success once he gets to the end, you don't have to ruin it by hacking out the end of the blind. 
I don't use white stakes so much on water blinds unless the challenge of the blind is in the first half and I just want a clean ending and no handling after the challenge.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

First, will you marry me? I think I love you. Or maybe I just want to use you for your field knowledge 

Have you ever considered doing UKC premier, June, Kalamazoo MI? Lots of fun, 4 day show, lots of DOCK DIVING!!!!

We use birds because we have them I guess, and he likes them. Makes the drill more fun for him is my thinking. No problem with ants, and no fire ants in IL at all. Not even any ticks in our alfalfa field! No gators, either.

The first couple of times I sent him he was totally self-employed even though we were only about 20 yards from the stake. We have a couple of resident pheasants in our field, and one had been out that morning strutting around. Tito apparently decided to hunt him up rather than go where I was sending him. Honestly I saw it as a total discipline problem, which caused me a bit of a dilemma. I didn't want to nick him on the first couple of times I'm introducing something like this, but he was totally flipping me the paw on something where I felt he knew what I was asking him to do. I wasn't really sure what to do, so I called him back in and THEN nicked him for ignoring the come-in. Not sure if my thinking was right or not, but I figured at that point he would know for darn sure why he was getting nicked.
He did pretty well for several runs after that, but then he would start to veer off course again a couple of times, and again, I had the feeling that he was determined to hunt up his own bird, preferably a live one, because he was heading toward the same spot each time he went off the line.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like we need to back up to some basic obedience and fix his attitude about who he is working for. Right?





K9-Design said:


> The only part of your initial post that didn't jive with this is when you said Tito has a tendency to break down and hunt during this drill, which to me didn't make much sense, but does make sense if you are trying to do cold blinds (because really, the dog has no idea yet what he's supposed to do, and hunting around in cover is usually a productive activity for him!). If he is doing ANYTHING but running straight to the stake on these sight blinds, you should be able to correct it with the tools you already have. If he is traveling in the wrong direction, you can stop and give back or over casts to get him to the stake. If he stops and hunts or otherwise wanders off, you need to force en route to change his mind that he needs to stay on task.
> Hey you guys find me a golden specialty or other breed national specialty to be a vendor at in your neck of the woods and I will be happy to bestow my meager field knowledge on ya! LOL


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Good info about the white stakes, too. I think we're still at the stage where we need them, but I'll keep in mind to not use them for too long.
Now that you mention it, one thing I do remember Dan saying is to run him toward all sorts of different things; stakes of different colors, buckets, traffic cones, etc. If I could remember half of what he tells me, I'd be twice the handler I am now.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> First, will you marry me? I think I love you. Or maybe I just want to use you for your field knowledge


Oh fine, just use me why don't you! I feel so cheap. HAHA



> Have you ever considered doing UKC premier, June, Kalamazoo MI? Lots of fun, 4 day show, lots of DOCK DIVING!!!!


Ooh I bet that would be fun!!! Actually my whole June this year is booked, I am staying in Ohio for all but a handful of days, to run tests and go to the Cuyhoga Valley specialties. It's probably one hell of a drive but I'm staying near Cleveland, if you want to meet up!



> We use birds because we have them I guess, and he likes them. Makes the drill more fun for him is my thinking. No problem with ants, and no fire ants in IL at all. Not even any ticks in our alfalfa field! No gators, either.


I would can the birds on blinds/drills. It's going to get really tedious. He needs to get used to running to a pile and grabbing a bumper. 



> The first couple of times I sent him he was totally self-employed even though we were only about 20 yards from the stake. We have a couple of resident pheasants in our field, and one had been out that morning strutting around. Tito apparently decided to hunt him up rather than go where I was sending him. Honestly I saw it as a total discipline problem, which caused me a bit of a dilemma. I didn't want to nick him on the first couple of times I'm introducing something like this, but he was totally flipping me the paw on something where I felt he knew what I was asking him to do. I wasn't really sure what to do, so I called him back in and THEN nicked him for ignoring the come-in. Not sure if my thinking was right or not, but I figured at that point he would know for darn sure why he was getting nicked.


Gotcha. Well first are you certain he knew that he was supposed to go to the stake? If you are relatively sure he knew it but chose to do otherwise, I would have marched out there, gotten him by the collar, and ear pinched him all the way to the pile. Since you are that close to both him and the pile, make it personal. That probably would have gotten his attention REAL quick.



> He did pretty well for several runs after that, but then he would start to veer off course again a couple of times, and again, I had the feeling that he was determined to hunt up his own bird, preferably a live one, because he was heading toward the same spot each time he went off the line.


This sounds typical for a dog not properly forced to the pile. Got bored after a few sends, going off on own agenda to avoid the task. Can't remember what kind of force en route you've done with Dan but that certainly is where you should have applied it. (back nick back) You also could have stopped him with the whistle and handled (backs & overs, give them a whirl), and seen where that got you.



> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like we need to back up to some basic obedience and fix his attitude about who he is working for. Right?


Essentially yes, but you're also seeing how trying to train blinds without a real firm plan is often quite fruitless and can go downhill kinda fast. It's also hard to do take-home lessons because there's so much of "what do I do now????" that unless you know it, it becomes impossible to move forward without someone holding your hand. At your same point I was going to regular lessons with my field instructor much like you are with Dan, but I also independently became a Mike Lardy junkie and would pour over his manuals and taught myself what we needed to do. My instructor was there if we ran into problems and to connect the dots if I couldn't figure it out.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Interesting think about the stakes. What sort of problems do you think their overuse does? My friends use orange sticks often to mark their blind piles, and even though they are orange it can be pretty obvious that the dog can see them after a point. The one caveat I have seen is a dog getting sucked into fence posts, etc staked in the ground that are not associated with the blind and not with the handler's directions.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

GoldenSail said:


> Interesting think about the stakes. What sort of problems do you think their overuse does? My friends use orange sticks often to mark their blind piles, and even though they are orange it can be pretty obvious that the dog can see them after a point. The one caveat I have seen is a dog getting sucked into fence posts, etc staked in the ground that are not associated with the blind and not with the handler's directions.


Oh we use orange and black stakes all the time, I've not seen our dogs be unduly attracted to fence posts and other things however one problem I ran into was I was so dependent on the dog seeing the stake at the end that I would be screwed in tests when the dog got to the end of the blind and there was no stake to bail him out! Dumb handler! But stakes are VERY common at tests so a dog who can pick one out does have a leg up, so long as you can also handle without one.
It's more a risk to overuse the white stakes especially early on, they are just a crutch if you are relying on the dog to see the white from the line in order to go.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Here is another drill I do after the stake. Some call it walkout blinds. Don't use the stake. Put a few bumpers down get the dog out sit him. Walk out to the pile and show him a bumper, drop it in the pile. Walk back and send him to the pile. Send him a few more times till he understands there is something there. Move over 45 degrees or so with another pile do it again. I would reinforce this with lining drills in the yard.
Another thing you can do on the head swinging is set up a double he can see. After the first bird is down the second he starts to swing his head, (delay the second mark)SEND HIM, does it again after a few times,go put him up for a few minutes,even better run another dog. Take him back out,if he head swings again put him up. Don't let him have a bird if he swings his head. I tell him sit when the head swing starts,and put him up.
Hope this helps


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

K9-Design said:


> I would can the birds on blinds/drills. It's going to get really tedious. He needs to get used to running to a pile and grabbing a bumper.
> 
> *We use bumpers in the yard, and birds in the field. What you're saying makes sense, but I hesitate to use bumpers in the bird field. I'm thinking that it would be better to back up to the yard with this then?*
> 
> ...


*totally agree about taking home lessons. it seems to cause more problems than it solves. *


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks Radarsdad (for some reason it's not letting me quote your post in my reply), those both sound like great suggestions for drills. Question on the first one...is that done in the yard or in the bird field?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I have a question....when you guys are introducing this kind of stuff, where do you do it, and in what cover? 
Dan did it in the bird field, with birds, in cover about mid-calf deep, so I did the same thing here at home. 
It sounds to me like a lot of your drills are done with bumpers, on short cover?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

speaking of stakes, at one JH we ran, in the water portion, (the one with the gators) there was a big pipe sticking up in the middle of the pond. It was amazing how many of the dogs swam directly to the pipe. A couple of labs even swam right into it. 
Someone commented, "sure can tell who's been lined to a stake" and now I understand what they were talking about!


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> speaking of stakes, at one JH we ran, in the water portion, (the one with the gators) there was a big pipe sticking up in the middle of the pond. It was amazing how many of the dogs swam directly to the pipe. A couple of labs even swam right into it.
> Someone commented, "sure can tell who's been lined to a stake" and now I understand what they were talking about!


Not necessarily. It could just as easily be young dog distraction or or a factor of the dog not having seen enough variables in their training. I set a JH last year where the left hand water mark had decoys off to the left, and a big rock in the water to the right of it--neither particularly close though. Perhaps half of the dogs either went to check out the dekes or the rocks, and in some cases, both! The well schooled and highly driven dogs jut went straight to the bird.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

> *We use bumpers in the yard, and birds in the field. What you're saying makes sense, but I hesitate to use bumpers in the bird field. I'm thinking that it would be better to back up to the yard with this then?*


Um, no it shouldn't make any difference. The dog doesn't know the difference between "bird field" and "yard." It's just standard convention that we use bumper piles when working on blinds or their prerequisite drills. If the dog got to the bumper pile and refused to pick up a bumper because he'd rather have a bird, then guess what, breakdown in force fetch, time for a correction.



> *I am certain that, at this point, he knows what "back" means, and it does not mean go find yourself a pheasant somewhere in the tall grass:doh:. Never even thought about forcing him to the pile. Didn't even cross my mind.*


Well calling him back and correcting on "here" actually wasn't a bad move, sort of indirect pressure if you will, at least you did SOMETHING! 



> I have a question....when you guys are introducing this kind of stuff, where do you do it, and in what cover?
> Dan did it in the bird field, with birds, in cover about mid-calf deep, so I did the same thing here at home.
> It sounds to me like a lot of your drills are done with bumpers, on short cover?


Yes drills typically are done on short grass with bumpers, that's exactly right. 
When you say cover about mid-calf high, do you mean the occasional weed is that high but otherwise you can see the ground? Because if the solid grass were mid-calf high everywhere, you wouldn't be able to see the dog  Which makes any sort of field training kinda pointless. 
If the cover was that heavy then it's reasonable that the dog maybe didn't see the stake and had no idea what you were sending him for. 
Here's how I kinda rate cover.
If the dog can see the bird on the ground as he's running to it, it's low cover.
If the cover is high enough to hide the bird but you can see the dog just fine, it's moderate cover.
If there are times you can't see the dog, it's high cover!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Our bird fields and yards are very different. The yard is mowed grass. The bird fields are what you would call moderate to heavy cover (thanks for the description, btw!). So when he's in cover, he doesn't expect to see bumpers, just birds.
Ok, I have to laugh....either you are VERY tall, or your dogs are VERY short, or you were thinking of "calf" as an animal, not a part of my body, LOLOL. Mid-calf high for me is about 12 inches tall! So yes, I can still see the dog quite well, but no, he cannot see the bird until he gets on top of it (and not very well even then, he has to smell it to find it, the alfalfa is pretty thick already). 




K9-Design said:


> Um, no it shouldn't make any difference. The dog doesn't know the difference between "bird field" and "yard." It's just standard convention that we use bumper piles when working on blinds or their prerequisite drills. If the dog got to the bumper pile and refused to pick up a bumper because he'd rather have a bird, then guess what, breakdown in force fetch, time for a correction.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> Our bird fields and yards are very different. The yard is mowed grass. The bird fields are what you would call moderate to heavy cover (thanks for the description, btw!). So when he's in cover, he doesn't expect to see bumpers, just birds.
> Ok, I have to laugh....either you are VERY tall, or your dogs are VERY short, or you were thinking of "calf" as an animal, not a part of my body, LOLOL. Mid-calf high for me is about 12 inches tall! So yes, I can still see the dog quite well, but no, he cannot see the bird until he gets on top of it (and not very well even then, he has to smell it to find it, the alfalfa is pretty thick already).


Duh, sorry, I was thinking mid-THIGH not calf! LOL okay nevermind then 
I realize there's a difference in cover of your "bird field" vs. "yard" but really, the dog doesn't know there should be a difference. It's all fieldwork for him. You shouldn't hamper yourself by only using birds or bumpers in each. Trust me, you will be using lots of bumper piles in your quest to teach the dog to handle so might as well get used to it now. In fact beyond the logistics of it, using bumpers at blinds is actually helpful in that the dog will rely less on his nose at the end of a blind than if you use birds. Dogs should not be relying on their noses when running blinds, they should be relying on you


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

First one I do in a field with just high enough cover he cannot see it from the line. But can see when he gets fairly close. The concept is that there is something there and if I keep driving where he told me go I will get it. Remember you are building confidence in this one not seeing how far he will go before he breaks down. Then lengthen it. In other words i think he should pick up the pile about point you think he will break down. If that makes sense.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> Ok, I have to laugh....either you are VERY tall, or your dogs are VERY short, or you were thinking of "calf" as an animal, not a part of my body, LOLOL. Mid-calf high for me is about 12 inches tall! So yes, I can still see the dog quite well, but no, he cannot see the bird until he gets on top of it (and not very well even then, he has to smell it to find it, the alfalfa is pretty thick already).


LOL - I am enjoying this thread for the educational value, but now I am enjoying the laugh too


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks guys, I'm digesting all of this. It is making perfect sense, and is going to call for some alterations in what we're doing. He DOES use his nose a lot to help find the bird. A bumper, well, that wouldn't be the case, so that makes sense. But I can see that putting one in the field where we're working would be just plain frustrating for him, because he'd lose it in the alfalfa unless he happened to trip over it.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> But I can see that putting one in the field where we're working would be just plain frustrating for him, because he'd lose it in the alfalfa unless he happened to trip over it.


You mean on blinds or a mark? It's your job as a handler -- on BLINDS -- to put the dog exactly on the bumper, not his job to hunt it up. By using a stake or other marker YOU know exactly where to handle the dog to.
If you mean on marks -- dogs need to be using their EYES to get themselves in the immediate area of the mark. Dogs CAN smell bumpers very well, just obviously not as well as a bird. But I agree, I do not like using bumpers in high cover because it's unfair for the dog to practically nail a mark but not come up with it, where if you used a bird they would scent it right away.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Yes, I was thinking marks since we've never done blinds, just trying to work up to it. I don't like throwing bumpers in our field, the cover is tall (this is the lowest it will be this year) and thick, and it really does seem unfair to me. Also there aren't any real "landmarks" for him to use to mark or memorize, so he can get real close to it and then not see it. Especially because the field has a pretty heavy "bird" smell pretty often from our natives.
I get goosebumps when I watch him (or any dog) running to the area of the fall, then catching the whiff of the bird....it's just thrilling to see. 
We had a really heavy wind when we were out yesterday, and the birds were a bit on the older side so probably had a good strong smell. It was awesome to watch the dogs get downwind of the bird and pick up the scent. I know, probably old hat to a lot of you, but exciting for me.





K9-Design said:


> You mean on blinds or a mark? It's your job as a handler -- on BLINDS -- to put the dog exactly on the bumper, not his job to hunt it up. By using a stake or other marker YOU know exactly where to handle the dog to.
> If you mean on marks -- dogs need to be using their EYES to get themselves in the immediate area of the mark. Dogs CAN smell bumpers very well, just obviously not as well as a bird. But I agree, I do not like using bumpers in high cover because it's unfair for the dog to practically nail a mark but not come up with it, where if you used a bird they would scent it right away.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> It was awesome to watch the dogs get downwind of the bird and pick up the scent. I know, probably old hat to a lot of you, but exciting for me.


On Winter's last test she caught the scent and snapped 90 degrees to the bird. Both judges said "NICE" at the same time. I think everyone loves to see it. .

Loving this thread.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

And didn't it just give you goose bumps? I LOVE watching these guys work!



hollyk said:


> On Winter's last test she caught the scent and snapped 90 degrees to the bird. Both judges said "NICE" at the same time. I think everyone loves to see it. .
> 
> Loving this thread.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> And didn't it just give you goose bumps? I LOVE watching these guys work!


You bet it did. It made me want to yell "That's My Girl!"

It's those moments that suck you into field work. So amazing to just watch the dog work.....makes you forget to blow your whistle. LOL


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