# Trained again today



## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Some days your the diamond...Flip, and somedays your not...Conner. The light bulb will come on, and last I check they only use real birds for hunt tests! Sounds like you had a great training session, even if it didn't go as planned. I'm so glad you found someone to work with.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Is there any reason to not send on a different 'name'?


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

RedDogs said:


> Is there any reason to not send on a different 'name'?


Coming from an obedience background, I always used whatever their retriever command was to send them to retrieve. (For Conner that's "take it", for Flip I'm using "fetch"). Using their name was always used as "pay attention."

But in the retriever world it's standard to just say their name to release them to go retrieve. Very difficult for me. So when I say "Flip," he goes "what?"

It seems I now have a million commands I've got to work on changing for Flip....I'm not going to even bother for Conner, he's too old and set with the commands to bother trying to change them. But here's what else I'm working on changing on Flip for commands:

-change his command to walk backwards from "back" to "scoot"
-his obedience heeling (attention heeling) command from "heel" to "strut"
-jump command from "over" to "jump"
-Working on teaching him what "here" means, but will probably still use "come" in obedience

Probably some others I'm not remembering right now.

I have high hopes in obedience for Flip, so I hope I don't totally screw him up by trying to balace the two sports.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Oh and I guess I should add.....the reason I'm changing my commands and not just making up new ones for the field (like I did for Conner ), is that the guy I'm training with said he wants to be able to run Flip as needed, and he'd have to be able to use standard field terms. Since it took me two years to find someone to help me and he's not charging me or anything I'm not one to argue...

I did tell him I think it's too late for me to use "drop" as a release command. He's had that engrained as a command to go down since he was 8 weeks old. I've always used "give" for that.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I'd have real serious concerns about sending Tito on his name....I'd be afraid he'd start going on his name in obedience!


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

And I've reinforced it tens of thousands of times...we'll be definitely using a different "name".

You sure are dedicated to change so many of your cues! I'm so glad you've found someone to train with and that it's someone you are enjoying to work with. (And I'm VERY jealous!)


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> I'd have real serious concerns about sending Tito on his name....I'd be afraid he'd start going on his name in obedience!


Just have to not use the name in obedience. Which is what I've been told to drop for years by Debby Quigley anyway (she says using the dog's name in front of a command is a crutch that allows the dog to not pay full attention until they hear their name). We'll see how it goes....


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Sounds like you had a great session with Flip. Connor may just have started thinking.

I don't always send on their name - I'll also use GO. There is no conflict with that since GO in agility means go - on in a straight line while GO in field is coming to mean go-on in a straight line  I will use their name to send if they are really locked on and quivering; but I think they are in a completely situational setting them so there is no conflict when they are that intent.

Heel I do use since it actually is a position (for stationary) while I use place for the right side. I use Let's Go for a loose heel walk since again there is no conflict - this is the cue in normal and field life.

I use Gee and Haw for the Over cue in field since Over means to take a jump (obedience) while Gee and Haw I use in agility for go left or go right.

And -- the cue I use for backing up is courtesy of Boomers Dawn - for heeling backwards its 'beep beep' like a truck since she also does field and obedience and didn't want to use back for heeling - just for field.

One friend recently earned a HIT in obedience and she swears it is due to the focus work required in field. Another gent I know has multiple OTCH's while running the same dogs in agility and field. I think there are many folks who successfully do multiple sports and do very well if that is their goal


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Took the dogs back out this morning for a few quick land marks. Conner was great today. Not sure why some days he's awesome and other days he totally sucks. Flip was spectacular, except my trainer said I HAVE to get better control over him. So my homework for the week is to work on his obedience work (isn't it sad when they have to tell the obedience trainer that?)


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

IMO, yes and no....I don't like to automatically use his name before the commands, no. 
But I like to have it as an "extra command" if I can tell he's NOT paying attention.
Just for example, if we're doing the directed jumping and I see he's looking right at me, I'll just give the hand signal and say "jump it". But I like the option, if he's not quite focused on me, of saying, "TITO!!!! Jump it!".
That's why I'd be concerned about sending him on his name in field work. I'd be afraid that if he's turned to look at something else in obedience, and I use his name to get his focus back, his little pea brain would hear his name and think, "uh oh, I was supposed to go somewhere" and off he'd go!
Just a concern I have, I have no valid experience to back it up. But I did find I couldn't use "Go Out" for directed jumping because of agility, I had to change the command to "Run Out". In agility the word "go", for me, is always followed by an obstacle name (go tire, go tunnel, go walk, etc) and he was having a hard time finding the "out" that he was supposed to go do. As soon as we changed to "run out" he was fine.




Loisiana said:


> Just have to not use the name in obedience. Which is what I've been told to drop for years by Debby Quigley anyway (she says using the dog's name in front of a command is a crutch that allows the dog to not pay full attention until they hear their name). We'll see how it goes....


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

thinking out loud....I think I'll send him on "DUCK". It will be easy enough to teach him the object / name relationship for "DUCK", it's no different than naming his toys. Then he'll know exactly what it is he's going out to get (not that he wouldn't know). I've found in agility it does help him to have a concrete object in mind when he's heading out. 
Doesn't matter if the bird isn't a duck. He's not that smart.
I was thinking of just using "bird", but if the judge yelled "no bird" Tito might take off/?????


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> Just a concern I have, I have no valid experience to back it up.


Oh I agree, I'm concerned too. If it were totally up to me I probably would not send on his name. But in all honesty I think it will force me to train even better attention in the ring and give me a better performance overall, if I know I can't fall back on his name. And I'm sure there will be times where it will bite me in the butt, but hopefully the overall results will be an improvement (that's what I'm praying for).


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> I was thinking of just using "bird", but if the judge yelled "no bird" Tito might take off/?????


I would think that would be a matter of proofing...just like in obedience the dogs doing a sit stay can't react to the handler in the next ring shouting "drop" at her dog.

I've got Conner's commands all mixed up. I use "bird" for a cue for marks and "mark" for a cue for blinds. In my mind it seems like when we use the term "mark" in obedience, it is more of a blind situation where we are asking them to focus straight ahead on a specific point and go to that point. Whereas in marks in the field we are asking them to be on the look out for something that is going to appear in a little while.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

Dogs know the difference between saying their name to send on a mark vs. saying their name to get their attention. Just like everything else, they are situational. Ruby has never ever been confused in the obedience or agility ring when I say her name before a command. Just like I can use her name indiscriminately at home. I *do* have to be careful when we are honoring not to say "Ruby, heel" when we can leave the line. I *think* she may well break at that, but we are in the field, she's sitting beside me, and a bird has just been thrown.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm glad to hear you say that! Probably has to do with our tone of voice, too. Im sure the tone I use that means "hey butthead I'm over here" isn't the same as the tone that I use for "yahooooo go get it buddy!".



IowaGold said:


> Dogs know the difference between saying their name to send on a mark vs. saying their name to get their attention. Just like everything else, they are situational. Ruby has never ever been confused in the obedience or agility ring when I say her name before a command. Just like I can use her name indiscriminately at home. I *do* have to be careful when we are honoring not to say "Ruby, heel" when we can leave the line. I *think* she may well break at that, but we are in the field, she's sitting beside me, and a bird has just been thrown.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> I'm glad to hear you say that! Probably has to do with our tone of voice, too. Im sure the tone I use that means "hey butthead I'm over here" isn't the same as the tone that I use for "yahooooo go get it buddy!".


Absolutely I do use a different tone (not necessarily because I mean to, but just because I do-if that makes sense!). Dogs are so smart!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

I over thought it too, when I first started training for both venues. There is a big difference in "Dooley, heel" versus "DOOLEY!".


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Yeah, don't fret over the commands, name to send, etc. Keep your obedience vs. field training separate and you will have no problems. Go out in the back yard and send for fun bumpers on his name, it'll take one session for it to click.


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## kgiff (Jul 21, 2008)

I just started doing some field work last year. My 7 year old only took a couple of sessions to transition to sending on his name vs. another command. I think it took me longer to get over the hang-up than him. But now he happily sends on his name for field and checks in with me on his name in agility.

I'd probably avoid sending on "DUCK" because duck might sound a bit too much like the judges "dog." (Just my opinion.)

I'm a lot more careful with what I'm calling things with the pup. When his obedience instructor says to use "back" or whatever, I'm very conscientious to make a mental note, need a different word for that. Now coming up with a new command on the spot tends to be more difficult.


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