# Charlie is attacking other dogs!



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

He probably would do better in a more experienced home. Please look to golden rescues, not shelters.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Have you notified Charlie's breeder that you're unable to keep him? Please make sure you're not violating your contract as typically, breeders want their offspring back. Otherwise, please consider placing him with a rescue. Rescues are either able to help socialize the golden and work through the issue or be able to place him as a "one & only" dog in a household.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Sorry to tell you but if your dog is labeled as "aggressive" a shelter will have him put to sleep. You might have better luck with some rescues who may take the time to evaluate and train him but a lot of rescues will not take him either.
What type of training have you done with your dog and have you sought the advice of a trainer? How old are your sons? It is not so much a matter of strength as it is a matter of training techniques used to walk a reactive dog.

Sorry this happened but I am curious as to what techniques you have tried to help this dog???


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Have you considered using a training collar as a method of keeping control over your dog in situations where he's attempting to pull you or your son toward another dog to attack it?

Here is an example of what I am talking about, in case you aren't familiar with them:

Amazon.com: StarMark Training Collar, Large, Blue: Pet Supplies


As far as allergies go, maybe a combination of a daily allergy medicine for your son (generic over the counter versions of Allegra, Claritin, and Zyrtec are now available), frequent vacuuming, and possibly taking the dog to a groomer to have his fur trimmed closely might all be considered. That last part is something I'd really hesitate to do, because goldens seem very proud of their fur, but people do it for far less important reasons than helping a boy with allergies keep his dog.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Holy crud, I would not put something like that on a dog.

If the OP is still interested in working out these behavioral issues, then she needs to attend classes (privates until this dog can be handled around other dogs) or seek the help of somebody who knows what they are doing. Dog aggression and what it sounds like is happening with this dog - it can be corrected, but these are things that new dog owners are not going to fix on their own. It needs a lot of careful handling. 

Strapping collars on isn't training.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Charlie's Mama said:


> .... Just tonight was the "last straw"...
> 
> My two boys were out with Charlie on the leash... we try to make sure and do this later in the evening. Well, he saw another dog who saw him and started to prance. Charlie immediately pulled my son to the ground and dragged him until he couldn't hold the leash any longer. He attacked the other dog, and slashed her face in two places. The owner was very upset (rightfully so) at first.
> 
> ...


You may not want to hear that your sons shouldn't have been out walking your dog, but you're going to hear it anyway. Letting your kids out in the evening to walk a dog you know they can't control who has a history of acting aggressively toward other dogs is irresponsible and unfair to the kids, the dog and most especially the dogs and the owners who you have allowed to be attacked. 

The previous posters are correct , please contact a golden retriever rescue or your dogs' breeder if you won't take the necessary precautions to make sure an innocent bystander or one of your own kids is not seriously injured.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

If you are willing to work with Charlie,please contact a board certified canine behaviorist who can help you understand Charlie's behavior and help you through the training process to counter condition and manage his his behavior. 
Until then, get Charlie a front clip harness, EasyWalk and Sensation are two brands I can think of. When you put the harness on him to take him out, clip the leash to the ring at the front of his harness AND to the D-ring on his flat collar. This will give you more control of Charlie when you are out walking him. Do not use a 'training collar' or 'prong collar', those tools can serve to escalate a dog's negative response to it's triggers. Walk him when there is minimal chance of encountering other dogs so that he does not have opportunity to 'practice' his unwanted behavior. If he should have an 'incident' keep him home for a few days, play with him in the yard, let him 'chill out' so that he is no chance of him being re-exposed to other dogs right away. Work on a solid foundation of obedience skills, you want them 'automatic', a key skill your dog should have is 'name attention', you want to teach him to look at you regardless what else is going on. Start with no distractions, in the house, then in the yard, then on walks, say his name, when he looks at you, give him some high value treats. It takes work, it takes practice, lots of it, and lots of high value rewards, but in the end, if he is paying attention to you, he is not reacting to another dog. 
Do not let your sons walk him. He is a risk to them and to other dogs, and it is not a responsibility that should be placed on a young persons shoulders. They are at risk of being seriously injured or caught in the middle of a fight. A 90 lb dog can pull a 200 lb man off his feet, if he is not expecting it.
There is a book: Feisty Fido by Patricia B. McConnell that can help you with Charlie, but seeking professional help as well is always a good idea.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Do not use a 'training collar' or 'prong collar', those tools can serve to escalate a dog's negative response to it's triggers.


This is untrue. 

I know plenty of people who use prongs on aggressive dogs. Not that freaky bear-trapesque collar which was pictured above. In capable and knowledgable hands, these collars aid the trainer in correcting and completely stopping inappropriate behaviors.

My only comment though is people seem to go out and put these collars on expecting that the collars alone will fix the problem. They don't. Many of the issues that people have with prongs are caused by people just putting them on and hoping the collar will train the dog. The same thing happened with choke chains.


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## penparson (Sep 19, 2010)

Has Charlie played successfully with other dogs off leash? I'm not thinking of a dog park - but of arranged play dates or other off-leash romping opportunities with other dogs. A lot of dogs, mine included, are leash reactive, but otherwise behave appropriately. Work with a trainer - you might be able to get Charlie headed in a better direction.


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## Charlie's Mama (Aug 4, 2010)

I actually did mean rescue - not shelter. That was my mistake. We do have two rescues in our city and will be contacting them both... In hopes they they can help Charlie and place him with more "responsible" owners. 

I realized that posting this was a mistake... But was hoping to reach out. 

Thank you for the replies.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I missed the post that called you irresponsible... 

I used the term experienced. There are people out there who have raised and trained dogs with your problem, and generally they can adjust and correct the behaviors fairly quickly. Dog aggression won't cause any issues as far as rescue/adoption. They will simply make sure that the dog is adopted to an experienced home with where he will be the only dog. 

If you are willing to go through the expense and work of training him through this problem - you can most definitely do that as well. But it will require you spending the money to work with a good instructor. 

When you talk to the rescue, before you surrender your golden - see if they have any advice as far as a trainer in the area who can help you. Or sometimes, they have people who volunteer for them. The best case scenario would be somebody training you to train your dog. 

I cut to the chase about you turning to rescue because of your son's allergies and your husband's demands to surrender the dog. I absolutely do not want a dog living in a stressful environment. When that dog has behavioral issues (fear or aggression), they can be exasperated or show up more frequently if the dog's home environment is stressful.

IF you do intend to have another dog someday, I would take the training route - and commit to it. The next 2 or 3 years, work with an instructor. Go to classes. IF you wind up just surrendering this dog right now, please keep in mind that without the appropriate handling and training that these dogs require, you may wind up going through the same thing with the next dog.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

I don't know how old your sons are, but I don't even let my 8 and 10 year old kids walk Bella. They can't handle her at this stage. They just get dragged around. All it would take is a blowing leaf, and they would be tasting turf. My wife has trouble too, but that's more of a training issue. For her, not the dog.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Charlie's Mama said:


> I actually did mean rescue - not shelter. That was my mistake. We do have two rescues in our city and will be contacting them both... In hopes they they can help Charlie and place him with more "responsible" owners.
> 
> I realized that posting this was a mistake... But was hoping to reach out.
> 
> Thank you for the replies.


I would still recommend you try the training collar before you give up your dog. Spend the $10 and give it a month before you give up your beloved pet who, I'm sure, loves you, too, and probably thinks of you as his family, the only one he can ever remember having (Since you raised him as a pup). Don't abandon him until you've explored _all_ of your options.


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## Makomom (Feb 28, 2012)

What state do you live in?


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Charlie's Mama,

I am sorry if anyone insulted you when you are trying to get help for your dog. I would hope that was not their intent.

Once a dog has attacked multiple times, and seems to be esacalating, frequently the only way to save the dog is to give him up to a preferably breed specific rescue. These folks, volunteer or professional, know dogs and know if and how a dog can be rehabilitated - it is what they 'do' and a specialty skill and talent.

One point I have not seen although I may have missed it. Has Charlie received a complete medical evalauation, including thyroid and regular blood work? Is it possible he has a thyroid condition? 

And please also keep in mind, while not common, some goldens are 'wired' wrong and there is not much anyone can do - I am not saying that is the case with Charlie but it might be.


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## Montana's Mommy (Mar 10, 2009)

My Levi is aggressive towards other dogs starting at age 2 1/2 - Got a shock collar - problem solved in 3-4 weeks - Just got to make sure you know how to use it on your dog - Plus they are smart dogs and it didn't take Levi long to learn - If anything I think I am more afraid of taking him around other dogs because of the past and afraid how he will still act!!!


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Montana's Mommy said:


> *My Levi is aggressive towards other dogs starting at age 2 1/2 - Got a shock collar - problem solved in 3-4 weeks*...*If anything I think I am more afraid of taking him around other dogs because of the past and afraid how he will still act!!!*


Those two sentences are contradictory. If you're still afraid of the way your dog acts, then the problem is most certainly not solved. And IMO, using a shock collar in this instance would most likely escalate the problem instead of solving it. There are much, much better ways of dealing with DA issues.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

kwhit said:


> Those two sentences are contradictory. If you're still afraid of the way your dog acts, then the problem is most certainly not solved. And IMO, using a shock collar in this instance would most likely escalate the problem instead of solving it. There are much, much better ways of dealing with DA issues.


 
Okay going to put my 2 cents in here. I personally met Montana's mom and was lucky enough to meet Montana. He was such a sweet guy. I met Levi as a puppy. Okay, I admit, I wouldn't ever do a shock collar. But I know this poster and I know how deeply she loves her dogs and what a great owner she is. 

I think that once your dog has been DA no matter how long a dog hasn't had another incident, you should always be concerned when having your dogs around other dogs. I have a dog that has never bit another dog but has a lot of body language that is concerning when around other dogs - you can tell she's not comfortable or excited about meeting other dogs. I am always aware of her when we are around other dogs and there are times when I will not let her meet and greet another dog because of how uncomfortable she was in the past. I think there would only be a problem if your dog was DA but now you used a method and consider him cured so you no longer take precautions and through your dog into any situation and approach any dog.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

Charlie's Mama said:


> I actually did mean rescue - not shelter. That was my mistake. We do have two rescues in our city and will be contacting them both... In hopes they they can help Charlie and place him with more "responsible" owners.
> 
> I realized that posting this was a mistake... But was hoping to reach out.
> 
> Thank you for the replies.


 
A lot of rescues won't take him. I hope you find one that can. But I just have to say, I think it stinks of you to set him up for failure into situations that you have a lot of responsibility of putting him into and then instead of getting advice here - which, by the way, would likely help you keep your dog and have a happy life together - you take the easy way out and bail on him. 

If you change your mind and are willing to get some good advice and get on the road to making this work, then let us know. 

PS> If you don't want to keep your dog and can't find a rescue that is willing to take him, at least have the decency to be with your dog when the vet puts him down, surrounded by the only family he's ever known. At the very least, you owe him that. Don't fool yourself into thinking, well, if we don't tell the shelter about his bite history, they will rehome him. Because he will get in a scuffle with another dog at the shelter, he will be led into a room with other unwanted dogs and gassed to death. Or led into a room with dead dogs piled up and a man with a needle. You owe his love and loyalty more than that kind of an end. You owe him more than bailing on him too, IMO.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Charlie's mom-I am so very sorry you are having problems with Charlie and are having to consider your options for him. 

As mentioned by another member, I would contact his breeder first so you are not in violation of your contract.

If you are considering surrendering him to a Rescue Group, you may have some problems getting a Rescue to accept him into their program due to his agressions. I use to help a GR Rescue in my state with Intakes-I hope you will be completely forthcoming with the problems you are having with Charlie when you speak with them. 

Several members have suggested additional training and one mentioned contacting a Behaviorist, I hope you will consider this as an option also.

I wish you the best of luck.


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## Wendi (Jul 2, 2012)

I can see why the OP thinks some people are accusing her of being irresponsible. 

No one is perfect, no one.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

First, I also have allergies and my allergist wanted the pets out of the house-not going to happen-he said he figured that but needed to try the suggestion and urged me to at least keep them out of the bedroom. I compromised with out of the bed! I can deal with a stuffy nose and taking allegra every day. Now on the other hand, if you are dealing with something more serious (ie my brother had feline induced asthma) that is a different story, but that is usually not the case. Ultimately that is your decision.

I also have a dog with aggression issues towards other dogs. And I can honestly say the only time I've had a dog break away from it's owners was when a kid was walking it. Luckily I was able to keep myself between the dog and my dog, or there would have been a fight.
Whatever you decide to do, in the meantime if you (not your kids, YOU-) walk the dog or anything, I'd strongly suggest getting a muzzle. At least he can't hurt anyone else's dog that way.
It may be worth getting a trainers opinion before getting rid of him. My dog is very dog aggressive-esp on a leash, but it's a matter of training him to focus on me when we see another dog. It takes a lot of impulse control on his part-which we spend a lot of time training for! It also means being proactive when working with him. I don't wait for him to react to the dog. I get him to focus on me as soon as I see the other dog. If I wait for him to react, he's too far into the aggression for him to respond to my commands until the dog is gone.


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## Montana's Mommy (Mar 10, 2009)

momtoMax said:


> Okay going to put my 2 cents in here. I personally met Montana's mom and was lucky enough to meet Montana. He was such a sweet guy. I met Levi as a puppy. Okay, I admit, I wouldn't ever do a shock collar. But I know this poster and I know how deeply she loves her dogs and what a great owner she is.
> 
> I think that once your dog has been DA no matter how long a dog hasn't had another incident, you should always be concerned when having your dogs around other dogs. I have a dog that has never bit another dog but has a lot of body language that is concerning when around other dogs - you can tell she's not comfortable or excited about meeting other dogs. I am always aware of her when we are around other dogs and there are times when I will not let her meet and greet another dog because of how uncomfortable she was in the past. I think there would only be a problem if your dog was DA but now you used a method and consider him cured so you no longer take precautions and through your dog into any situation and approach any dog.


Thanks Jen - What I wanted to get across that me being human I do not forget what happened in the past with Levi and other dog encounters and so I get afraid to take him out around other dogs, where Levi is all good with it and I am the one holding him back. Plus I do not feel I need to defend anything I say or do to ppl. Just was telling the op my encounters and happenings.


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## mickeychick (Jul 19, 2012)

Charlie's mama I am so sorry for both you and Charlie. This just breaks my heart. I have tears rolling down my cheeks thinking of poor Charlie. Goldens are notorious for being such gentle loving dogs. I don't understand why Charlie would act that way towards other dogs. Was he socialized at all as a puppy? Did he have a bad experience? Has he been teased? Please, I beg you, try to get to the bottom of why he might be behaving this way. Take him to an experienced trainer and have them evaluate him and hopefully help curve this behaviour. Then if you decide NOT to keep him due to allergies, you can look into rehoming him. Take the time to try to correct this first - you owe him that.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Montana's Mommy said:


> ...I do not feel I need to defend anything I say or do to ppl. Just was telling the op my encounters and happenings.


I wasn't commenting on you as an owner just _my_ opinion on the method you used. When we post we have to be aware that there are people that read our answers and take the advice without a second thought. Someone that has a DA dog will read the title of this thread and see if they can get advice that might help them. They come to your post, see "shock collar" and "it worked" and bam...off they go to the store. 

The the only thing that I wanted to point out was that there are other ways of handling DA. A lot of times people will put the collar on and when they encounter the aggressive behavior of their dog toward another dog, they will then shock the dog. And by doing that, they just made the problem 10 times worse. Now their dog thinks that the approaching dog was responsible for the shock. 

Whenever anyone comments on the method used to train a certain behavior, I wish it would be taken in the way it was intended. Not a slam on the owner's capacity for love of their dog or how caring they are, it's just to mention other ways of doing things...


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## Sydney's Mom (May 1, 2012)

I'm so sorry that you're going through this. I've dealt with some reactive behaviour with Sydney and I know how stressful it can be.

I agree with everyone to try to contact a behaviourist before you get rid of Charlie. You're his people.


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## Jessie'sGirl (Aug 30, 2010)

Adding my vote to the "please try and work this out " crowd. Our Jess became aggressive to certain dogs this spring/ early summer. I have been working with him under the direction of an experienced trainer and there have been no new incidents in the past two months. My guidelines for where and how I walk my dog have been forever changed. I am always now aware of other dogs and we follow a strict procedure for meeting new dogs. But all is going well, we're out and about the various walking trails in our neighborhood and Jess is a happy boy.
We had his thyroid bloods done and a marker for auto-immune thyroid disease was positive, so we're following up on that as well. As many here on the forum will tell you, thyroid problems can be a cause of aggression.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

Wendi said:


> I can see why the OP thinks some people are accusing her of being irresponsible.
> 
> No one is perfect, no one.


 
This is probably directed at me. My response was after the OPs post, oh, people are suggesting I may have not done the right thing all the time so I give up and will give my dog away since some people here suck.

I understand knee jerk reactions and this is an emotional time as it is. But why call it quits when you find a place where you can get the advice and the knowledge to deal with this problem? That makes no sense to me. 

I know the OP will continue to check this thread - human nature. I'm sure she'll be irate and then horrified at my post but it's a dose of the truth. If she can't find a rescue willing to take a DA dog then she's stuck. At least my post will make sure that she cannot fool herself into thinking or being talked into taking her dog to the shelter. She needs to understand the reality of what that means and what will happen to her dog she loves so much.

There are a number of things she could do to drastically improve this situation as it seems the only issue is that her dog doesn't like other dogs. Not really a problem inside of the home and something that can be dealt with and managed outside of the home.

If she truly loved her dog she wouldn't just throw up her hands and say forget it - I'm getting rid of him because some of you insulted me. It's either a. an easy out so she doesn't feel so guilty or b. a knee jerk reaction and as it sinks in, she'll return and post again. I think it's more likely b.

To the OP, no one dislikes you, no one is going to gang up on you and refuse to help you - least of all me. I truly think this is not a reason to get rid of your dog and that you will be doing him a great injustice by giving up without seeking valuable help and advice here. Look, here's the thing. We are not your family, your best friend, your priest. We are a source of honest answers and experiences and people who have made and have learned from our mistakes. Some of us may pat you on your back and give you tissues. Some of us will just be blunt in our advice or opinions. I think that the latter is what you need. This really is so doable but you have to have an open mind, don't get defensive if someone says you've made a mistake because we have all made mistakes. If you don't take responsibility and change your strategy, then this will just continue to go the wrong way.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

kwhit said:


> I wasn't commenting on you as an owner just _my_ opinion on the method you used. When we post we have to be aware that there are people that read our answers and take the advice without a second thought. Someone that has a DA dog will read the title of this thread and see if they can get advice that might help them. They come to your post, see "shock collar" and "it worked" and bam...off they go to the store.
> 
> The the only thing that I wanted to point out was that there are other ways of handling DA. A lot of times people will put the collar on and when they encounter the aggressive behavior of their dog toward another dog, they will then shock the dog. And by doing that, they just made the problem 10 times worse. Now their dog thinks that the approaching dog was responsible for the shock.
> 
> Whenever anyone comments on the method used to train a certain behavior, I wish it would be taken in the way it was intended. Not a slam on the owner's capacity for love of their dog or how caring they are, it's just to mention other ways of doing things...


 
I agree that a shock collar is something I would never use. I used to say I'd never use any negative training method but then it got to the point that Max, no matter what methods I tried, was still dragging us around and hurting his larnyx through all of that pulling. Finally, I had to start looking at other options.

Now this isn't going to help with the DA but I think it would be of great benefit to be able to control your dog outside even if he sees something and tries to go after it. What I use and has worked wonders for us is a German Sprenger collar. They tell me the idea is that it mocks how a mom corrects her puppy. It is very very important however to make sure you are using this item correctly. It has to go and stay just below the bottom of the ears. You have to have the correct number of links for the size of the dog. It's been a miracle worker for us and if it were me, the first thing I'd go about doing is finding a way to manage this behavior NOW outdoors and this is a great place to start.
http://www.cherrybrook.com/index.cf...ossSell&celSourceId=430996&celTargetId=429843
The one we have is actually pretty small links and Max is a nearly 100 pound dog. You don't want to buy heavy links like you might think to see on a Rottie, it's just not necessary.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

I'm sorry you are having to go through this


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

I've read a few things here I don't necessarily agree with. With regards to using Prong Collars for correcting fear aggression... I've never done it and the people I see doing it are generally inexperienced owners. Prong collars or negative correction collars when combined with fear aggressive dogs (such as what I assume Charlie has) can definitely cause further issues if not done correctly with precise timing.

I walked my dog beginning at 8 years of age. How is it not responsible to teach a child to be responsible? People forget that even their Golden can snap at any moment (yes, YOUR dog that licks your face and plays with you is quite capable of biting). I trust my dogs entirely, but I am very mindful of the fact that a dog is a dog and they react to situations differently each day. Owning an animal is assuming a liability and all dogs are capable of biting.... thinking otherwise is irresponsible.

If there are household allergies in which you cannot manage.... definitely place Charlie in a home but do I think that he is at all beyond hope and that this situation warrants that type of reaction? Certainly not... I think with a bit of time and proper handling you could have him back to the loving dog you remember him as.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I agree that prong collars can backfire, and create new problems. I hope you will work with a trainer certified CPDT-KA, and who uses sound, positive methods.


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