# Diarrhea, Squinting, and rapidly blinking in right eye



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I would go to the emergency vet. It could be he got something in his eye or his eye got scratched. It needs to be seen, especially if it is frazzled to this extent.


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

Absolutely emergency vet. I personally wouldn't mess around with anything to do with the eyes.


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## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

I agree with Megora. Your puppy might have something in his eye or a scratch.
Don't wait until Monday, take him to the emergency vet tonight.


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

I am sorry, like the others said, please take him to the vet. Better safe than sorry.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

You might have a couple of things going on here. The shots, especially such an overload of vaccinations all at once, could definitely cause him to go off his food and have some diarrhea. If is is the shots, it should resolve fairly quickly. For the record, I NEVER give all of the shots at once. It can be a real hit to the immune system to do this. I don't give bordetella period, and I separate the rabies and regular vaccine by 3 to 4 weeks. It is easier on the puppy this way.

The eye thing could be entirely separate from the other, especially since it started so much later. If he is whimpering, he is in pain. I would take him to the vet immediately. Like the others said, I don't mess around with eyes.

I cannot imagine why you would think this has anything to do with him being "defective." I assume he has been fine up until now.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

I definitely plan to take him to the emergency vet, however, I'm just not quite sure if I should go now and in the early morning.

JJ's is sound asleep right now in his crate. I don't know if I should just let him sleep and take him in the morning, or wake him up and rush him down there right this minute. The fact he's sleeping gives me some peace of mind, since I feel if he was in that much pain he wouldn't be able to sleep and would whimper non-stop. I do still know that something is wrong though and that he needs to see somebody, it's just a matter of how soon.

Going tonight would probably cost me a lot more then going in the morning. Not that I'm not willing to pay whatever it cost, but if it can wait to the AM due to the fact it's late now and he's sleeping and will probably sleep through the night, it'll save me some money. If it were mid-day right now and he was wide eye and bushy tailed, we'd be there by now, no doubt. But since it's 11pm and he's passed out, I'm thinking I can wait until he wakes up in the morning. Am I wrong about this, and should I wake him up and go now?


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Tahnee GR said:


> You might have a couple of things going on here. The shots, especially such an overload of vaccinations all at once, could definitely cause him to go off his food and have some diarrhea. If is is the shots, it should resolve fairly quickly. For the record, I NEVER give all of the shots at once. It can be a real hit to the immune system to do this. I don't give bordetella period, and I separate the rabies and regular vaccine by 3 to 4 weeks. It is easier on the puppy this way.
> 
> The eye thing could be entirely separate from the other, especially since it started so much later. If he is whimpering, he is in pain. I would take him to the vet immediately. Like the others said, I don't mess around with eyes.
> 
> I cannot imagine why you would think this has anything to do with him being "defective." I assume he has been fine up until now.


Personally, I wasn't to keen on doing rabies this early, but the vet suggested it so we went with it. We did bordetella since we plan, or at least hope, to take him to our local dog park. They did a nasal spray for that. I hear ya though on not doing all the shots at once. I felt the same way myself, but we did what our vet suggested, hoping she knew best based on her training.

He was whimpering earlier, about an hour ago, and was rolling and scratching his eye. That has since stopped, due to the fact he was tired and went to sleep. He's been asleep now for about 45 minutes and hasn't made a peep since. That's why I question whether I should take him to the emergency vet now, or let him get some sleep and go in the morning.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Tahnee GR said:


> The shots, especially such an overload of vaccinations all at once, could definitely cause him to go off his food and have some diarrhea. If is is the shots, it should resolve fairly quickly. For the record, I NEVER give all of the shots at once. It can be a real hit to the immune system to do this. I don't give bordetella period, and I separate the rabies and regular vaccine by 3 to 4 weeks.


I feel the same way. It is so hard on their immune systems to be over-loaded with so many shots all at once. I wish vets would get educated on this and not subject their patients to this dangerous protocol. Vaccinosis in puppies and dogs is very, very serious.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

If he's sleeping now and doesn't appear to be in any discomfort or pain, I would wait until morning. If he wakes up and it starts over again, I would probably take him in.

I love my vets but it surprises me how often I am ahead of them on the curve  When I had my first positive Snap4 and they did not suggest a C6, I asked for it and asked why they didn't suggest it. Answer-they figured a lot of their clients wouldn't pay for it. I think that is why vets push to do as much as possible on one visit-they fear the dog might not be brought back to finish what needs to be done.

Vets aren't perfect and they can't possible know everything-there is just so much going on in the field of veterinary medicine. Not to mention, it is our responsibility to advocate for our dogs health, just as we do with our own health.

OTOH, my vets are more than willing to listen, and, especially recenlty, they really work at staying current and are not upset when I challenge them. Sometimes we do it my way and sometimes we do it their way.


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## ggdenny (Nov 2, 2008)

I would take him tonight, regardless if he's sleeping. It's better to be over cautious than sorry. Please take him.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

I think we're going to let him sleep for now, since he's sound. I'll watch him throughout the night and if I notice he gets up and starts going at his eye, I'll take him in. I'm still a young guy, so I can sit here on the computer all hours of the night without sleep.

I wouldn't imagine the eye has anything to do with the diarrhea. I can't see how it really could. I'm hoping the diarrhea is from the shots and the heartguard the following day, and that a rice mixture will help clear that up. The eye worries me though, as I know how much we all value our vision. Aside from having something in his eye, what could be the case of his symptoms? What are some things I should ask them to look at, do or check for when I take him to the emergency vet?


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## Dreammom (Jan 14, 2009)

It could be from the vaccines...Layla had a reaction to her parvo vaccine in August, it started out as just her eye looking a bit odd to me, later there were hives and facial swelling on just one side of her face. I spoke to the Vet they said it was a reaction and we had her on benadryl for a couple of days....it came on the day after her vaccine.

When Hurley reacted so horribly to his one year boosters...his head swelled up like a basketball more than 24 hours after the vaccine!


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Tahnee GR said:


> Vets aren't perfect and they can't possible know everything-there is just so much going on in the field of veterinary medicine. Not to mention, it is our responsibility to advocate for our dogs health, just as we do with our own health.


I agree, but vaccines are an every day issue. It's not like they're a specialty or anything. If it's something they're dealing with on a daily basis, I believe they owe it to their clients to keep up with all the latest studies. My sister's good friend is a vet and he gets just as frustrated with other vets that over vaccinate. It might be true that they're afraid the people won't be back to get other shots, but I still wouldn't put the puppy's health in jeopardy. I think a lot of it might also be the money aspect. The mark up on shots is incredible. I know, I used to order them for the clinic I worked at. 

You definitely have to be your pet's advocate where their health is concerned and educate yourself before your vet appointment. Also, finding a vet that is secure enough to listen and change their protocol if warranted, is key.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

We may be changing vets after this, I don't know. That's on-going decision, since we use the vet for our ferrets as well, and she's one of the few vets in the area with knowledge on ferrets.

Neither here nor there, though, this whole this is creating chaos in my house. My girlfriend is having like a nervous breakdown. The reason she said she feels like we got a "defective" puppy is cause she doesn't believe a puppy shouldn't be this sick (consider he had a UTI, a yeast infection in the ear and now diarrhea and a eye problem by 15weeks of age). I told her these things happen and that whatever it is, it's treatable and not life threatening. She's in tears and high strung right now cause we love this puppy to death and she hates to see anything happen to him, as I do, too. I just take it better and understand we have to deal with whatever it is. Plus, everybody hates have to go to the emergency vet. Those places don't come with good situations, plus the prices set you back quite a bit. It's rough. 

I think I may be waking him up and taking him down shortly so we can come to some sort of conclusion here as soon as possible.


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## Dreammom (Jan 14, 2009)

Relax, tell your girlfriend to relax... a yeast infection is hardly a big deal in a Golden, puppy or not, JJ will probably have many in his life. UTI's are also common in pups...not a big deal either. JJ will be fine, you will all get through this, it could be from the vaccines, and the hw meds, those can definitely cause the runs. Could he have gotten a bug bite, a sting etc? As I said, I have had two dogs now react to vaccines with hives and facial swelling among other things.

Good luck, will be thinking of you and JJ...


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Dreammom said:


> Relax, tell your girlfriend to relax... a yeast infection is hardly a big deal in a Golden, puppy or not, JJ will probably have many in his life. UTI's are also common in pups...not a big deal either. JJ will be fine, you will all get through this, it could be from the vaccines, and the hw meds, those can definitely cause the runs. Could he have gotten a bug bite, a sting etc? As I said, I have had two dogs now react to vaccines with hives and facial swelling among other things.
> 
> Good luck, will be thinking of you and JJ...


I'm calm and cool as can be. I've owned dogs before and have been around them most of my life. I familiar with all this, aside from the yeast infection in the ear, that was a new one to me. Once I learned about it though, it appeared to be something that's not uncommon and easy for dogs with floppy ears like Goldens to get. I'm trying to calm her down, but she's the worrying type and the moment he gets sick, she fears the worst. I suppose he could have gotten a bug bite or a sting, although I haven't noticed such. He does bite his leg every so often, but has since we got him, and within the past week or so he's been licking his "thingy" more then usual. I think he's taking notice of his now haha.

I understand he'll be alright, as long as we take care of the situation and don't neglect him. As I said, just debating where I should go. I don't really know for sure if the hour of the day will effect the price, or if it's an emergency since he's sound asleep at the moment, so I'm going back and forth with myself on whether I should go now or wait till he wakes. I guess I'm the worrying type in a way as I would hate to learn I made the wrong decision and waited to long.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

I don't know your vet but for me personally if a vet did all these shots at once after and told me not to take my pup out until 16 weeks I'd probably consider exploring other clinics. Than again, I have little patience for vets who know less than me (and I really don't know anything). 

Hope little guy gets better ASAP. Maybe he'll wake up completely fine or let's hope it's something relatively splendid like conjunctivitis.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

jackie_hubert said:


> I don't know your vet but for me personally if a vet did all these shots at once after and told me not to take my pup out until 16 weeks I'd probably consider exploring other clinics. Than again, I have little patience for vets who know less than me (and I really don't know anything).
> 
> Hope little guy gets better ASAP. Maybe he'll wake up completely fine or let's hope it's something relatively splendid like conjunctivitis.


I don't know much about conjunctivitis, yet, but is it something that needs to be treated with meds or does it just go away on it's own? His eye was tearing a lot before, which in a way made me worried and happy at the same time. I figured like the human eye, if there's something in there bothering it, it's going to tear. I then noticed him licking his leg and rubbing his eye, as I've sometimes done myself when I got a hair in my eye. I can only hope it's as simple as that. For now he sleeps. I told my girl to go to bed and that I'd handle the situation, so I'm going to sit here until he wakes up.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

We'll, it's a little past 3AM now and I'm still sitting here. He's woken up once since he went to sleep just before 11PM, just to reposition himself. He's quite as can be and out like a light. He should be walking up in about another 2 1/2 - 3 hours, so we'll see how things look then and take him to the vet if things haven't changed.

Another thing to note is that he hasn't gone out to eliminate since around 9PM, which at that time he went out and did 3 times within about 30 minutes, with diarrhea each time. Can't say I'm to worried about that though cause he didn't have dinner and his water gets taken away at 9, so he doesn't have to pee often after that.


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

Please update, how is JJ doing this morning? I hope he is feeling better.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

JDK said:


> ...and his water gets taken away at 9, so he doesn't have to pee often after that.


I wouldn't take away his water when he has diarrhea...they can dehydrate so fast when they're puppies.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Buddy's mom forever said:


> Please update, how is JJ doing this morning? I hope he is feeling better.


Things are looking better this morning. He's only pooped once so far, and it was solid. That was after his rice+kibble breakfast. He's been drinking like normal, too.

As for his eye. He's not squinting like he was yesterday, but his eye is still tearing. It's not tearing as much as last night, but it's wetter then I've ever seen it before. My girlfriend also says she believe his eye looks droopy, and that it's red on the inside.

He's as active as he's ever been this morning, running around and playing with him toys. He does seem to be a little more nippy then usual, though. There's no whimpering, as we experienced a few times last night, and he hardly seems to be scratching at his eye, which last night we was doing every couple of minutes.

We haven't taken him to the emergency vet yet since things seem to be improving, but I haven't ruled out doing so quite yet.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

I'd take him to the vet if not today because the eye is just tearing, definitely have a call into my vet Monday morning to be seen. Max had a scratch in his eye when he was a puppy and needed meds. He must have ran into something! His eye sometimes gets teary now but he has never held it closed or have it seem to bother him other than the time he was for sure hurt. Now, it's an allergy issue but for sure, your pups eye doesn't seem allergy driven so I would have him at the vet on Monday. I was glad that I took my guy in before ASAP before it got too bad!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I hope you took your puppy in for his eye--I fear a corneal scratch. Eye pain can be horrible for a dog.


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## Laurie (Sep 20, 2009)

When Austin received his last set of puppy shots, he started squinting and his eyes were tearing up. I took him to the vet right away (which happened to be on a long weekend of course) and he was diagnosed with uveitis in his left eye. Three separate eye drops and about 4 weeks later, he was fine. 

I would be inclined to take him to the vet just to be on the safe side!!


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

We just returned from the emergency vet.

They checked out his eyes and said his pupils appear fine. They put some sort of dye in his eye and said that since it all rinsed out and didn't stick to anything, that there's no signs of a scratch or an ulcer. They did say it was redder then it should be around the white of his eye, which we were aware of and had mentioned ourselves. They believe it's just an allergic reaction to something he got in his eye, so they have us some drops to give him 3 times a day for the next 5-7 days. They also put one of those things around his neck so that he can't scratch his eye. So, my boy looks like a satellite now. If it were closer to Halloween, I would just wrap some tinfoil around him and call it a costume :bowl: He obviously hates wearing it since he's just sitting there, whimpering on and off.

They told us if we noticed that he's starting to clamp his eye shut and won't open it at all, to stop using the drops and to contact them or his regular vet asap. Apparently the drops have steroids in them.


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

Thanks for being such a good pet parent to the little guy. Sending lots of good wishes.


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

So glad that JJ is feeling better!

Also, just want to say how refreshing it is to see someone ask for advice and actually take it for once. Kudos to you!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I'm glad you took him in and he's being treated. My dog Toby can sympathize with your pup. He had double cataract removal surgery last Thursday and is a cute cone-head for the next 6 weeks--and he is not a happy camper. He's getting 3 different drops in his eyes 6 times a day too and he is not too fond of that either. 

It sounds like they did a test to test his tearing ability. Did they look at his cornea with any specialized instruments that might be able to detect a scratch? 

If your pup does have a bad reaction to the eye medication or if it looks like an infection is starting I"d recommend trying to get into an animal ophthalmologist if you have one in your location. Regular veterinarians don't have the specialized training or equipment to deal with many eye issues and they routinely refer ophthalmology cases to the specialists.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Jdk*

JDK

Glad you took him to emergency vet and I know you will keep a close eye on him. I know it's tempting to take the CONE OF SHAME on, but it's for his own good you leave it on, so he doesn't do any damage to his eye!!


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Dallas Gold said:


> I'm glad you took him in and he's being treated. My dog Toby can sympathize with your pup. He had double cataract removal surgery last Thursday and is a cute cone-head for the next 6 weeks--and he is not a happy camper. He's getting 3 different drops in his eyes 6 times a day too and he is not too fond of that either.
> 
> It sounds like they did a test to test his tearing ability. Did they look at his cornea with any specialized instruments that might be able to detect a scratch?
> 
> If your pup does have a bad reaction to the eye medication or if it looks like an infection is starting I"d recommend trying to get into an animal ophthalmologist if you have one in your location. Regular veterinarians don't have the specialized training or equipment to deal with many eye issues and they routinely refer ophthalmology cases to the specialists.


I don't think they used any "specialized instruments", but she told me that the dye they flushed his eye with is suppose to stick to a scratch or ulcer if there was one. Don't know how effective that really is, but she said it all rinsed out without a problem so they don't believe it's a scratch. I can pull out the sheet and get the name of the dye if you're interested. If began with an F, I remember that much.

This emergency vet clinic has an ophthalmologist, however, I don't know if they were there at the time to look at JJ. I don't believe so.

What are some signs I should watch for when it comes to an infection? His eye wasn't tearing all day, but since I've brought him home it's been tearing a lot again. I imagine that's just cause of the drop they gave him while we were there. His eye also looks more redder then it did this afternoon. It could just be my imagination, but I don't know. Is it possible that the eye drops are bothering his eyes and making them water and redder? I know when I use eye drops, my eyes get bright red after.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

I'll be leaving the cone on, no worries. My girlfriend suggested that maybe we take it off at night, since he sleeps sound at night, but I said no, and that even if he didn't bother with it at night, it's better for him to get use to sleeping with it on. I would hate to take it off at night and not be able to get it back on the following morning, or to have him not want to go back in his crate for the day with it on. He's gotta learn to adapt. I am, however, thinking about trimming it. It seems to be a little big for him.

While we're on the subject of the cone. Should I not be putting him in the crate with the cone on? I really have no other option. He doesn't know enough not to chew up the couch, so I can't leave him alone to roam and I can't stay home with him for the next week.

If things don't seem to improve within the next 2 days, I'm going to call his regular vet and bring him in to be looked at again.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I'm glad they have an ophthalmologist on staff just in case you need to go back. 

If he can't open his eyes or if the eye gets really crusty with greenish or yellowish gunk, it's a sign that it's getting infected. Also if it gets extremely red/irritated something is going on that shouldn't be and it probably warrants a phone call and/or follow up visit.

I don't know if you are experienced with giving drops to a dog but if not try not to touch the dropper to the eyeball itself. 

Did they give you a take home sheet with instructions--that should have a list of what to watch for. 

We've dosed Toby's eyes with drops every day of his life with us and sometimes he does tear up more after giving him the drops. He also has allergies which cause redness at times. Fall is the worst! 

We are giving him 3 different drops now and there is one he is getting now that seems to make him tear more. So tearing and redness might depend on the medication. One of his medications burns him too because he paws at his cone whenever I put in in. 

Our take-home instructions said we can apply warm compresses to his eyes (ever so gently) to help with pain--using warm water and a clean cloth. Doing something like that may provide some relief to your boy.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

JDK said:


> I'll be leaving the cone on, no worries. My girlfriend suggested that maybe we take it off at night, since he sleeps sound at night, but I said no, and that even if he didn't bother with it at night, it's better for him to get use to sleeping with it on. I would hate to take it off at night and not be able to get it back on the following morning, or to have him not want to go back in his crate for the day with it on. He's gotta learn to adapt. I am, however, thinking about trimming it. It seems to be a little big for him.
> 
> While we're on the subject of the cone. Should I not be putting him in the crate with the cone on? I really have no other option. He doesn't know enough not to chew up the couch, so I can't leave him alone to roam and I can't stay home with him for the next week.
> 
> If things don't seem to improve within the next 2 days, I'm going to call his regular vet and bring him in to be looked at again.


Oh those cones--watch out--sometimes they figure out ways to get them off so if he can fit in his crate with the cone and you are away I'd put him in the crate! Our Toby is Houdini--never met a cone he couldn't defeat...until now. The one the clinic sent him home in is actually a little shorter than his other one because when he rests on it his nose and mouth are outside the cone. This one has plastic slats and we put his collar through them so it can't come off. For the smaller dogs the clinic punched about 3 holes in the cone, near the base and then used the plastic ties to attach it to the dog's collar. They clipped off the extra part of the plastic ties so it wouldn't irritate the dog's skin. Very clever. 

Unless you or your girlfriend are really light sleepers I wouldn't risk taking it off at night, especially with a puppy. Our take home instructions said dogs get used to the collars. Well, that may be true but they never like them, ever! They can sleep in them, it just might not be super comfy for a while. 

They can get messy when a dog eats--we try to wipe it down after each meal. We also elevated his feeding dish (use phone books or a box) for the time being so it's easier for him to eat.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

As far as vaccines go, I vaccinate my own pups for rabies at 3 months. I live in the woods and rabies is endemic in the bat population in Maine.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

I quickly skimmed through the take home sheet they gave me. I'll have to look it over in a little bit. There's been no crusty stuff since this all began, so I guess that's a good sign.

As for the redness though, his eye has been red this whole time, so I'm not really sure how to determine whether or not it's red due to an infection or reaction to the eyedrops, or if it's just red cause it's irritated. 

They also told me to stop the drops if he starts clamping his eye closed. That's also hard for me to determine cause that's one of his symptoms. When we took him there he was squinting his eye and hardly opening it, so how am I suppose to know if the drops are causing that when it was happening before we even started the drops?


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Can you call back tomorrow and explain your concerns to the vet and get some clarification? I agree with you it seems confusing since they are telling you to watch for signs you dog already presented with when you took him in!


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Dallas Gold said:


> Can you call back tomorrow and explain your concerns to the vet and get some clarification? I agree with you it seems confusing since they are telling you to watch for signs you dog already presented with when you took him in!


Yea, I can call back tomorrow, or even tonight if I'm that concerned. I figure though that I should at least give it a day or two and take it from there, don't ya think? If I don't start to see improvement, I don't think I'll wait 5-7 days to finish the eyedrops. I'll probably just take him back for a further exam. I would hate to see the little guy lose vision in one eye.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

That sounds like a plan--give it a day or so unless it starts looking worse. You definitely don't want him to lose vision or experience lifetime pain in that eye. It's times like this you wish your dog could tell you exactly how they are feeling!


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## Brandiann (Jul 24, 2011)

So glad that JJ is doing better! 
With that said, I would look around for another vet. Forgive me if this sounds harsh but she might know about ferrets but apparently she doesn't know dog basics. My vet told me that he wouldn't give Lola the rabies until at least 2 weeks after her other shots because it "would be too much" for a young pup. I checked out multiple (4 or more) vets before I found one I trusted and stuck with.. You can't trust your babies lives to just anyone.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

I don't know if it's just our imagination or what due to the fact we're worried about JJ, but now it looks like his other eye is getting bad. His third eyelid on his left eye (the good one) is a lot more visible now, more than I've ever recall before, and it looks to be awfully red. Is it suppose to be red to begin with? Could it be that the irritation or whatever in his right eye is somehow bothering his left eye?


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

I am sorry, it is so stressful. How is he doing other then that?


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Aside from the whole eye situation, he appears to be as happy as a dog with a cone on his head can be. He's not running around and playing as usual since he can't really play with any of his toys. He's basically just sitting or laying there. He sometimes looks miserable, giving us a look as if he's saying, "what the hell am I suppose to do". Being a young guy, all he wants to do is play, and he can't. We sit there and hold his bones for him so he can at least chew a bit. He tries to pull away with it and hold it on his own, but as you can imagine, that doesn't go over to well. It's rather funny to watch really, and sorta sad, too. When you get up, he follows you, and he wags his tail like a happy dog, especially when you're petting him. He's not getting as wild though like he normally does when a new face comes into the room. Just a slight glare and that's it. I'm sure that all boils down to having the cone of his head, cause even with the eye situation this morning, he was more then happy to jump on us and nip us.

I think I'm going to give it till tomorrow night. If nothing improves and I wake up Tuesday to see things are the same, I'll call somebody and take him somewhere. I don't know if it's really safe or wise to wait the 5-7 days to "see what happens" and then go from there.


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

Thank you for the update. You are right, drops need some time to kick in. Hopefully JJ will feel better soon.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

We may have to postpone his puppy class. We were suppose to start this coming Friday, but if his eye is still bothering him or if he's still wearing the cone, it probably wouldn't be a good time to start the classes.

I am however glad to report that the diarrhea is no more. It must of just been from the shots and the heartguard. We gave him a rice and kibble mix this morning and this afternoon, followed by straight kibble tonight. The 2 times he went today, all appeared okay. Now if we can just get through this eye problem.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

If his eyes still seem irritated in the morning I would take him to your regular vet. Eyes typically heal fairly quickly, this has been going on too long for my comfort and if it were me I would want them checked again, especially since both eyes seem to be affected now.

Poor pup, I know it's hard to watch them feel bad, and the cone is pitiful.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

JDK said:


> I don't know if it's just our imagination or what due to the fact we're worried about JJ, but now it looks like his other eye is getting bad. His third eyelid on his left eye (the good one) is a lot more visible now, more than I've ever recall before, and it looks to be awfully red. Is it suppose to be red to begin with? Could it be that the irritation or whatever in his right eye is somehow bothering his left eye?


If both eyes are involved it sounds more like severe allergies or an infection. Are the pollens high in your area right now? 

I can't see how a veterinary professional might miss diagnosing an eye infection, but I guess it is possible. If I were in your shoes and it looked like both of the eyes were involved I'd probably go on to the vet and have another look. How frustrating! It might be as simple as adding an OTC antihistamine until the pollens go down or it might require an antibiotic drop or pill. 

What drop did they give you? Was it Neo/Poly/Dex? That drop is pretty benign but good for inflammation. If they gave you a more powerful steroid drop you might need to make sure your pup gets access to the bathroom more--we found that out this week with one of the stronger steroid drops they gave our Toby!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Tahnee GR said:


> You might have a couple of things going on here. The shots, especially such an overload of vaccinations all at once, could definitely cause him to go off his food and have some diarrhea. If is is the shots, it should resolve fairly quickly. For the record, I NEVER give all of the shots at once. It can be a real hit to the immune system to do this. I don't give bordetella period, and I separate the rabies and regular vaccine by 3 to 4 weeks. It is easier on the puppy this way.
> 
> The eye thing could be entirely separate from the other, especially since it started so much later. If he is whimpering, he is in pain. I would take him to the vet immediately. Like the others said, I don't mess around with eyes.
> 
> I cannot imagine why you would think this has anything to do with him being "defective." I assume he has been fine up until now.


I agree 100 percent with Tahnee, and I think, in this day and age, it is poor practice to give those vaccines all at once. I would change vets.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Dallas Gold said:


> If both eyes are involved it sounds more like severe allergies or an infection. Are the pollens high in your area right now?
> 
> I can't see how a veterinary professional might miss diagnosing an eye infection, but I guess it is possible. If I were in your shoes and it looked like both of the eyes were involved I'd probably go on to the vet and have another look. How frustrating! It might be as simple as adding an OTC antihistamine until the pollens go down or it might require an antibiotic drop or pill.
> 
> What drop did they give you? Was it Neo/Poly/Dex? That drop is pretty benign but good for inflammation. If they gave you a more powerful steroid drop you might need to make sure your pup gets access to the bathroom more--we found that out this week with one of the stronger steroid drops they gave our Toby!


Yes, they gave me Neo/Poly/Dex.

The question is, do I go back to my regular vet, the one who overdosed him on shots, and hope they do the right thing, or do I take him elsewhere, say to a specialist like an ophthalmologist? Would it be wise to start with the vet or to go straight to the eye doctor?

According to Pollen.com, the allergy alert is between "low" and "low-medium".

This morning he appears to be opening the eye more, but still not all the way or all the time.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I can only make that decision for myself, but if I had the ability to see an ophthalmologist immediately, without a wait, I personally would do that, even if it costs more--because they simply have the specialized training and only deal with eye issues. In our area you need a recommendation to see one and it's usually a few weeks wait. I'm "lucky" in that our Toby has seen his ophthalmologist since he was 6 months old and we can get in without a referral.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

JDK said:


> Yes, they gave me Neo/Poly/Dex.
> 
> The question is, do I go back to my regular vet, the one who overdosed him on shots, and hope they do the right thing, or do I take him elsewhere, say to a specialist like an ophthalmologist? Would it be wise to start with the vet or to go straight to the eye doctor?
> 
> ...


I would start with your regular vet, most of the time they can handle things like this with no problem. Giving the vaccines at one time is not necessarily a sign of a bad vet, while it is not an ideal decision, a large majority of vets do it that way and are still very good doctors.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Looks like I spoke to soon about the diarrhea being gone.

JJ was pooping fine all day yesterday, and this morning, before I left for work, he pooped twice, both times normal as can be. I thought we had seen the last of the diarrhea until I found his crate full of it today when I got home. He was just sitting there looking at it, with a look of shame on his face. Not his fault of course. I'm sure he tried to hold it for as long as he could, and it even appeared as if he tried to avoid going in the crate cause some of it was on the floor outside the door. He doesn't have accidents in the house and has never gone in his crate before. I think I was more upset about it then he was, more so cause I felt bad for him. Between his eye, the cone on his head, and now diarrhea in his crate, he's not having a good week.

Since the diarrhea is back, we're making him chicken and rice, and will stick with that for a few days and then try to get him back on kibble, maybe by the end of the week. Could the diarrhea be from stress - due to the cone - and the shots and heartguard combined? Are we doing right by giving him rice and chicken? I'm not quite sure what I'm going to do tomorrow if his diarrhea is still real bad. Not putting him in the crate until the dog walker comes isn't really an option cause I don't have anywhere else to enclose him that's safe. 

In regards to his eye. It looks like it may be getting a little better. I say that cause it looks like he's keeping it open more then he was yesterday and not holding it closed as much. It's hard for me to tell though. It's only been 24hrs since we started the drops, so I guess I'll give it one more day to decide whether to take him right in to see somebody or to continue the drops for the remaining days. I'm leaning more towards having him seen sooner, cause I don't want to wait 5-7 days just to have somebody tell me "well, that didn't work, it's more serious then we thought, so lets try this". I hate waiting.



Dallas Gold said:


> I can only make that decision for myself, but if I had the ability to see an ophthalmologist immediately, without a wait, I personally would do that, even if it costs more--because they simply have the specialized training and only deal with eye issues. In our area you need a recommendation to see one and it's usually a few weeks wait. I'm "lucky" in that our Toby has seen his ophthalmologist since he was 6 months old and we can get in without a referral.


I may in fact need a referral as well, I'm not sure since I've never been to an ophthalmologist before. I just happen to know there's one down at the clinic we took JJ to for emergency service, and figured that if I requested to see him, they would set me up (since they already know there's an eye problem).

I also know of this place - Veterinary Eye Specialists PLLC - Ardsley, Westchester, New York - which isn't far from me that does nothing but eyes. I'm sure I could get in there without a referral.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Here is a good sticky from one of our forum vets about diarrhea: http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/golden-retriever-health-anatomy-physiology-breed-standard/100015-what-do-about-stomach-upsets.html

We are dealing with soft stools this week with Toby. He had an eating indiscretion two weeks ago and then the surgery last week and is very upset about his e-collar. I'm leaning towards his issues being stress related.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Opps. Guess I shouldn't of fed him tonight, even though it was only a bland meal of rice and chicken. Do you suggest I hold his food in the morning? He usually eats at 6am. He ate around 5pm tonight. That's over 12hours, but if it's the smart thing to do, I'll hold him longer, say till noon. I don't know how long it takes for the rice to bind them up, but he recently just went out and it was nothing but diarrhea. Since the diarrhea started late Friday night and stopped by Sunday before returning this afternoon, do we restart the 48hr clock?

I'm thinking I'll call the vet tomorrow and see if I can get him in there tomorrow afternoon. All this going on at once is just to much, for both him and I.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

I never realized how hard it is to pick a new vet. Everybody you ask, no matter where they go, they all have the "best vet" :doh:

I'm taking the advice of a good friend of the family, though. She's a professional dog groomer by trade, and like many of us, loves animals to death. I can't imagine her going anywhere unless she felt they were the best of the best. Gonna give the new vet a call tomorrow, tell them about JJ's situation with the diarrhea and the eye, and see if they can squeeze me in tomorrow afternoon. I'm gonna hold JJ's food in the morning and see if I can get him to the vet around noon, before he eats lunch, so I can ask them whether or not I should give him lunch or hold him to dinner so it's a full 24hrs.

A few people suggested going back to the clinic where I took him for emergency service since they're already aware of the eye problem, which makes sense, but for some reason I feel I should get him acquainted with another vet I'm going to use regularly and have them suggest what I should do from here on out.


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## Sophie_Mom (Jan 21, 2009)

Sawyer had a ba-jillion diarrhea problems when he was a baby. If it doesn't clear up with the chicken and rice, the vet could give you some Hill's prescription ID (we did the canned version). Yes, it's awful quality and ingredients - but it did get Sawyer's poops firm nearly immediately. We'd go back to that for a day or two for a "baseline" when he was having some sort of ingredient intolerance. I'd never ever feed for long-term (or even a long-ish temporary time), but for a day to get everything working correctly here and there was acceptable and it did the trick. So, keep it in mind if the chicken/rice doesn't work for him. I hope he is feeling all better soon. Is it possible to have someone check on him more frequently this week?


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

The veterinary opthomologist in our area does not require a referral. Hope things start improving for you and your pup!


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

Praying for JJ to start feeling better.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Sophie_Mom said:


> Sawyer had a ba-jillion diarrhea problems when he was a baby. If it doesn't clear up with the chicken and rice, the vet could give you some Hill's prescription ID (we did the canned version). Yes, it's awful quality and ingredients - but it did get Sawyer's poops firm nearly immediately. We'd go back to that for a day or two for a "baseline" when he was having some sort of ingredient intolerance. I'd never ever feed for long-term (or even a long-ish temporary time), but for a day to get everything working correctly here and there was acceptable and it did the trick. So, keep it in mind if the chicken/rice doesn't work for him. I hope he is feeling all better soon. Is it possible to have someone check on him more frequently this week?


I'm familiar with Prescription ID. We had to give JJ some when we first brought him home cause he can down with the runs. He loved it, and it worked great.

I haven't fed him since last night. Trying to fast him for 24hrs. He had rice and chicken for dinner, which, by the looks of things this morning, hadn't helped yet. He has an appointment to see the vet (the new one we'll be using regularly) at 4pm. Maybe he'll send me home with a few cans of ID.

And, as far as somebody being able to stop in and check on JJ more frequently this week, I'm working on it. I managed to come up with an excuse today about why I needed to leave early, and hopefully my girlfriend will be able to do the same tomorrow.


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## ozzy'smom (Jun 18, 2011)

How old is she? Our vet didn't want us to fast Ozzy 24 hours as she thought it was too long for a puppy (and Ozzy is 6 months old). I'm sure your new vet will have some ideas. We've done the prescription food in the past with another dog and it helped and there are presciption drugs too that can help. That might help get you through the week until you're around more.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

He's just under 4months. I was going by the advice in the sticky regarding issues with diarrhea, where it says to pull food for 12hrs, preferably 24. What made her feel like 24hrs was to long for a puppy? The fact that he wasn't going to be getting any nutrients for an extended period? Just asking for my own reference. The more we know, the better owners we can be.

I was actually thinking about feeding him at lunch, which is part of the reason I came up with an excuse to get out of work early. I didn't want the dog walker feeding him for the first time since last night, so I figured I'd try and get out of work and feed him myself. However, when I walked in, he was sound asleep, and I didn't have the heart to wake him.


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## Sophie_Mom (Jan 21, 2009)

We fasted Sawyer - probably between 12 and 24 a few times. It's good for their bellies to settle down. I don't think you'd do any harm in a 24 hour time.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Well, we took JJ to his new vet today to have them look at his eye, and to inform them about the diarrhea. They sent us home with Flagyl and a few cans of Prescription ID. They stained his eye and reassured us there wasn't a scratch. They allowed the dye to drain through his nose to check whether or not a nasal passage was clear - it was. The vet said his eye appears swollen but other then that, it looks good. And he told us to stop the eyedrops cause there's really no need for them. As my luck would have it, JJ wasn't squinting at all while we were there. He was doing all he could to keep his eyes wide open around all the new faces. The moment I got him home, he started squinting again :doh:

We're still convinced, though, that something is wrong. His eyes appear droopy, almost like a bloodhound's. His third eyelid (at least that's what I think it is) seems to be coming up over the bottom of his eyes, and in my opinion, it looks real red. The vet checked his eyes thoroughly and saw no problem with either of them. So at this point where not sure what to do. We do know, though, that JJ has never had bloodhound like eyes before he started having problems with his right eye. If you check the photos I posted a couple days ago in the Golden Retriever Picture section, you'll see he's normally bright eyed and bushy tailed. 

His eye sort of look like this right now









The red part the arrow is point to, is that considered the third eyelid? And should that not be visible over the bottom part of his eye unless something is wrong?

I wish he would stay still to let me get a picture. As soon as he see's the camera, he goes nuts.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Here's a look at a picture taken this past Sunday of JJ's right eye, the one he's been squinting. The pinkish/reddish part appears to be a lot more redder then it was then, and his left eye now looks slightly similar with the red area clearly visible, more so then it's ever been.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

How's his sclera? From the pics it looks nice and white. I feel like you should trust your vet, but I completely understand the feeling that something is just not quite right with your dog. If you think something is wrong, then it's very likely something is. I hope it's nothing serious.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

kdmarsh said:


> How's his sclera? From the pics it looks nice and white. I feel like you should trust your vet, but I completely understand the feeling that something is just not quite right with your dog. If you think something is wrong, then it's very likely something is. I hope it's nothing serious.


The sclera is the white area around the iris, correct? If so, it looks as white as can be, in both eyes. Being able to see that red area though scares me. What exactly is that red area, his 3rd eyelid? It was that red when the vet saw him, and he said he thought it looked fine. It just sucks how JJ wasn't squinting or drooping his eyes while we were there. I really wanted him to see that.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Did the vet say anything about cherry eye? 

http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/diseasesconditionsfaqs/f/cherry-eye.ht


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

His eyes look exactly like the hound's I posted above. The iris is nice and brown, the sclera is pure white, and that red area is clearly visible. I can't really tell if his eyes are dropping or if that part of the eye is just coming up, since it's happening in both eyes. I have nothing to compare it to.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Tahnee GR said:


> Did the vet say anything about cherry eye?
> 
> http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/diseasesconditionsfaqs/f/cherry-eye.ht


No, he did not. He said his eyes looked fine, aside from the fact his right eye looked swollen.

The red doesn't just appear in the corner, and it doesn't look like a lump. It goes along the entire bottom of his eye. I'll try and get a photo tomorrow morning when he's up and about.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

My plan is to give it until Friday. If I don't see any sort of improvement, I'm going to call the vet back and express my concern once again, and how I feel there's a larger problem here. I just don't know what to suggest to look for, or test for for that matter. How do I tell a vet what to do, and how what he's doing isn't enough? If they saw his eye was swollen, shouldn't they have given him something to reduce the swelling? I thought that's what the Neo/Poly/Dex eyedrops the emergency vet gave us were for, but then he told me that he recommends not using them since they're "not needed". If his eye is swollen and there was an infection, wouldn't it make sense to give him eyedrops to treat the infection and swelling? 

I suggested to my girlfriend that we just go to an eye specialist, but she doesn't feel comfortable "going behind the vets back" as if we're saying "we don't trust what you say", since I'm sure they would want to fax a report to the vet.


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## SandyK (Mar 20, 2011)

Oh...how sad looking. I hope JJ's eye improves.


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## embreeo (Aug 19, 2006)

To be safe, I would definitely take him to an eye specialist. If nothing else, it will relieve YOUR mind. Did the vets you saw give you any idea what it could be?


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

embreeo said:


> To be safe, I would definitely take him to an eye specialist. If nothing else, it will relieve YOUR mind. Did the vets you saw give you any idea what it could be?


The people at the emergency vet told me he might of gotten something in his eye. If so, would that cause swelling, or just redness?

The new vet we went to today couldn't give a reason as to why his eye was swollen, but assured me the eye itself was fine.

We haven't been back to the vet we initially started since we I wasn't to pleased with how they administered the shots.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

When I piece it all together, the emergency vet gave me the best answer they could and provided me with something to try and cure his eye.

The new vet said I don't need what the emergency vet gave me since his eye is fine and just swollen, even though the drops the emergency vet gave me are meant to reduce inflammation, so I can't see why he would suggest that I don't need them. He comes highly recommend, so I dunno. He also told me I don't need the cone, so he took it off. I let JJ go without it for a while, but the moment he reached for his eye I put it back on. I don't want to end up with a bigger problem here. It's obvious his eye still bothers him. Aside from the swelling, it must burn or itch if he's trying to scratch it. I can't really tell if he's "clamping it shut" cause it hurts, or if it's just more comfortable for him to keep his eye closed due to the swelling. He's not whimpering or anything over it, and he was wild as can be when that cone was off. You could tell he was dying to get it off of his head.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I think for your peace of mind you should get the specialist's opinion--if your gut is telling you something is wrong you owe it to yourself and to your pup to get it checked out. Many veterinarians aren't as schooled in ophthalmology issues as the specialists and what appears normal to them may not actually be normal. They don't have the equipment the specialist's have to really examine the eye. Something is not right with your dog's eyes from the Sunday photo and if I were in your shoes, I'd be going to the specialists. While I think it is always a good idea to maintain a good relationship with your dog's regular veterinarian, I also think if you aren't feeling right they should understand if you want to get a second opinion. They are professionals and most will understand you are just looking out for your dog's best interests. If the vet gets huffy or offended, then I would start looking for a new one. 

I've often called my dog's veterinarian after a visit to let them know I'm still uncomfortable--they've always been willing to help me pursue things further. Once one of my Bridge boys started throwing up violently one morning and we got him in for the first appointment with a new vet at the clinic. We may have been her very first patients as far as we know because she was that new. She basically sent us home saying watch him. We live less than a mile from the clinic. I stewed going the short drive home, ran in the house, called the clinic back and told the receptionist I wanted a second opinion. She said come right back--got us in with one of the more senior vets and that veterinarian saved my boy's life--he had leptospirosis! That's why I'm such a believer in trusting your gut.

The neo/poly/dex is for inflammation only--that photo shows some inflammation in my opinion, but I'm not a professional, just a dog mom who has given my Toby drops every day for over 6 years for his congenital cataracts. 

Trust your gut/heart and then go with it.


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## embreeo (Aug 19, 2006)

Dallas Gold said:


> I think for your peace of mind you should get the specialist's opinion--if your gut is telling you something is wrong you owe it to yourself and to your pup to get it checked out. *Many veterinarians aren't as schooled in ophthalmology issues as the specialists and what appears normal to them may not actually be normal. They don't have the equipment the specialist's have to really examine the eye.* Something is not right with your dog's eyes from the Sunday photo and if I were in your shoes, I'd be going to the specialists. While I think it is always a good idea to maintain a good relationship with your dog's regular veterinarian, I also think if you aren't feeling right they should understand if you want to get a second opinion. They are professionals and most will understand you are just looking out for your dog's best interests. If the vet gets huffy or offended, then I would start looking for a new one.
> 
> I've often called my dog's veterinarian after a visit to let them know I'm still uncomfortable--they've always been willing to help me pursue things further. Once one of my Bridge boys started throwing up violently one morning and we got him in for the first appointment with a new vet at the clinic. We may have been her very first patients as far as we know because she was that new. She basically sent us home saying watch him. We live less than a mile from the clinic. I stewed going the short drive home, ran in the house, called the clinic back and told the receptionist I wanted a second opinion. She said come right back--got us in with one of the more senior vets and that veterinarian saved my boy's life--he had leptospirosis! That's why I'm such a believer in trusting your gut.
> 
> ...


ITA - veterinary medicine has become more and more like human medicine. There are veterinary specialists for just about everything now. The way I see it, going to your "regular" vet is like going to your primary care physician ... then being referred out.

Personally, I like a vet who has a lot of experience (the one I go to has been practicing for at least 25-30 years) and comes from a well known veterinary school.

I wouldn't mess around with the eye ... better safe than sorry. The thing that would bother me about this situation is that it's been several days and still not much better. Perhaps it is something more than just a bite or something that got in his eye.


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## ozzy'smom (Jun 18, 2011)

Wow! This is crazy. It would be driving me crazy. Honestly, I think you have to trust your gut with this. If you feel there is something going on that needs more than a "let's wait and see" approach I would see the specialist. In fact, you might want to call now and see how long it will take to get in. If it will be a couple of days then you have the best of both worlds...you are taking your vets advice but have a back up plan in place if he's not better in a couple of days. I wouldn't worry about offending your vet. Honestly, if you see a specialist it just shows you care about your dog. If your vet is offended they are probably not the right vet for you. It's not like you have a long-term relationship with this guy. If it turns out he's right, then you can let him know and thank him. If he's wrong, you should know and treat your dog accordingly. Personally, based on your pictures, I would probably see the specialist just to ease my mind.

And in regards to my vet not wanting us to fast Ozzy 24 hours...she thought it was too long for a puppy and they should't go that long without food like a big dog would. Honestly I think her advice goes against what I've hear everywhere else. It's not like our guys are little babies anymore.


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## embreeo (Aug 19, 2006)

JDK said:


> The people at the emergency vet told me he might of gotten something in his eye. If so, would that cause swelling, or just redness?
> 
> The new vet we went to today couldn't give a reason as to why his eye was swollen, but assured me the eye itself was fine.
> 
> We haven't been back to the vet we initially started since we I wasn't to pleased with how they administered the shots.


I have a friend who has a golden puppy - one week after they got her, while chasing their daughter around the yard, the puppy ran into the girl's foot. Her eye was a little swollen and she was squinting. They took her to the vet where they did a stain on the eye and found that it was fine. The next day, her eye was back to normal. A couple of weeks later, they think the puppy got bit in the eye by an insect (of course on a weekend) and they took her to the e-vet. They gave her some steriod drops and told the owner to give her Benadryl. Again, the problem cleared within a day. I know some dogs can have an allergic reaction ... I have one who is a little allergic to bee stings so I always keep Benadryl on hand.

IF your puppy got a bite or something in his eye, I would think it should be getting better by now, especially if the e-vet did the stain and everything was ok. Again, being that your pup is still so young, I just wouldn't mess around with waiting ... JMHO.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Agree*

I agree with Dallas Gold-to be on the safe side I would get the specialist opinion!


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I really hope you are making an appointment with an eye specialist, this has gone on way too long to be nothing to worry about. Eyes heal fast, the fact this it's still bothering him is a big concern for me.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

I'll be calling the ophthalmologist in the morning as soon as the clinic opens. I tried to call this evening, but it was already past their normal working hours. Hopefully, they'll be able to give me a solid answer instead of just "wait and see what happens".


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

I managed to get a few new photos of JJ tonight, showing the condition of both his eyes. Since two vets so far have said the eyes themselves look fine, what else could be going on here?

Just to recap before the new photos.

JJ normally looks like this - taken September 28th.







[/IMG]

He eventually began looking like this - taken October 2nd - and started squinting and holding his right eye closed as much as possible, with some visible swelling around the eye, a lot of blinking, and a lot of tears.









He now looks like this - taken October 5th - with both eyes appearing droopy, sorta like a hound's with a lot of red visible towards the bottom of the eye. He has his right eye closed about 75% of the time.


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

OMG, poor guy!! I would for sure see the eye specialist ASAP. I don't see how 2 different vets can say his eye looks fine. Something is OBVIOUSLY not fine. I'm glad you're listening to your gut and not listening to these passive vets.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I am really glad you are calling the specialist. He looks like it's really bothering him, poor pup.

It almost looks like he is having an allergic reaction in the tissues around the eye.


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## sandyhp (Jan 21, 2008)

Entropion, maybe?


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

I might actually agree with them about the eye itself looking good. It's whats going on around the eye that scares me. I was leaning towards an allergic reaction myself, but the question is, would that cause the eye to swell? His right eye is swollen around the bottom of it. One the problems is that JJ doesn't look like he does now when we go to the vet. He gets all excited with the new environment and the new faces and his eyes are wide as can be. He didn't squint once at the vet the other day, nor could you see the reds in his eyes like you can now.


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## Bentley's Mom (May 19, 2011)

Take the pictures with you, all of them, to the specialist. That way you can show them even when he's super excited in the new environment.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Oh those pictures of your little guy broke my heart, he looks so down in the dumps. I really hope the specialist can help you figure out what is wrong.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Bentley's Mom said:


> Take the pictures with you, all of them, to the specialist. That way you can show them even when he's super excited in the new environment.


That's what I plan on doing this time 

I just don't know what to ask these people. I don't think things are going to end well if their final answer is, "we don't know what's happening or why it's happening. Just wait and see what happens". Am I the only one who see something is _already_ happening and it's happening quick? :doh:


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

Oh my, he looks SO SAD!! Those pictures absolutely break my heart.

I would be calling a specialist in the morning too. Something is obviously not right. 

JJ is lucky to have you!


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Dog Anterior Uveitis (Soft Eye): Symptoms, Causes, Treatments

"Anterior uveitis is painful and is accompanied by a red eye, severe tearing and squinting, avoidance of light, and protrusion of the third eyelid. The pupil is small and reacts sluggishly to light. It may appear hazy or cloudy due to inflammation in the anterior chamber. A distinguishing feature of anterior uveitis (but one that is not always present) is that the affected eye feels softer than the normal eye."

Does JJ's eye look hazy at all? What are his pupils like? Did the vet rule out entropion?


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

kdmarsh said:


> Oh those pictures of your little guy broke my heart, he looks so down in the dumps. I really hope the specialist can help you figure out what is wrong.


He's miserable. He tries so hard to play and chew on his bones, but it's hard with the cone. He gets discouraged and figures, what's the point, I can't hold anything up to my mouth.

I should probably mention that I took those photos when he was rather tired, too. It was the only time he would stay still for the camera, without attacking it. He actually wore himself out today. We just had our yard fenced in and it was the first time he was able to go out there and run around without a leash. He had a blast.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

sandyhp said:


> Entropion, maybe?


I was thinking the same thing. The eyes definitely look uncomfortable to the little guy.
My Golden girl, Baylee, had redness and problems with her eyes for years. Her regular vet at the time told me it was allergies and said there was nothing to do about it. When I eventually took her to an opthomologist she was diagnosed with pigmentary uveitis and has been on regular drops since then. I hate to think how uncomfortable she must have been all that time.

Wishing you the best...


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

kdmarsh said:


> Dog Anterior Uveitis (Soft Eye): Symptoms, Causes, Treatments
> 
> "Anterior uveitis is painful and is accompanied by a red eye, severe tearing and squinting, avoidance of light, and protrusion of the third eyelid. The pupil is small and reacts sluggishly to light. It may appear hazy or cloudy due to inflammation in the anterior chamber. A distinguishing feature of anterior uveitis (but one that is not always present) is that the affected eye feels softer than the normal eye."
> 
> Does JJ's eye look hazy at all? What are his pupils like?


His eyes don't look hazy at all. And his pupils seem to react fine. Vision appears to be good, too. Both vets also said his pupils look good and that there's plenty of white in his eyes. It seems to just be the area around the eye, and whatever the red part is showing (third eyelid?).


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Something that was mentioned to me earlier by somebody around my way is that his left eye may be acting up now cause he's straining it. Since he's holding his right eye closed, he's using his left eye for most of his vision. I never thought of that but it makes sense, especially considering the fact his left eye didn't start acting up until 2-3 days after the right eye. I don't believe that's the case here, though.


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

Don't wait any longer, for peace of your mind and for sake of your little guy check in with ophthalmologist.


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## embreeo (Aug 19, 2006)

Poor thing! I can see why you're so worried. Have you been in contact with the breeder that you got him from? Do you have any kind of health guarantee on him? Just wondering, in case it turns out to be something other than allergies or a bite.


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## SandyK (Mar 20, 2011)

So sorry you are going through this. It is always so much harder when there is not a specific answer for the problem. I hope you are able to get JJ into the eye doctor soon. Good-luck!!!


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

By the way your pup is a real cutie!


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

embreeo said:


> Poor thing! I can see why you're so worried. Have you been in contact with the breeder that you got him from? Do you have any kind of health guarantee on him? Just wondering, in case it turns out to be something other than allergies or a bite.


I actually haven't been in contact with the breeder. While very nice to begin with, she started to take an attitude awhile ago and we haven't chatted since.JJ got diarrhea shortly after we brought him home. Naturally, I called the breeder just to let her know. She had sent me home with some medications just in case he were to get sick on the ride home or become stressed with the move to a new home. We gave JJ the meds as she told us to and took him to the vet 2-3 days later. We of course had to inform the vet about the meds we gave him before she could give him anything else for the diarrhea, which the breeder told us to do. The vet wasn't happy to hear the breeder sent us home with prescription medication and said, even though she knows a lot of breeders do it, she doesn't agree with it at all. The breeder wanted to know what the vet said, so I called her and told her. She wasn't happy to hear what the vet said and started getting snotty with me over and was even trying to blame me for him getting diarrhea. She was all like "None of my dogs have ever had a problem, and I've been doing this for over 30 years. Maybe you're not ready to own a dog". It was like she implied that I gave him diarrhea. We haven't talked since. The sad part is, I heard nothing but great things about her before hand.

As far as guarantees, I got the basic clearances on his parents and him for eyes, hips, etc, and I have something in writing that says if he were to come down with a life threatening disease within 6 months, she would give me another puppy for the next litter. As you can imagine, I want nothing to do with that :no:


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

BayBeams said:


> By the way your pup is a real cutie!


He's a real ladies man, minus the cone and squinty eyes. He couldn't even intimidate a little lap dog at the vet the other day.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

How soon can you get him to the specialist? I sure hope it can be arranged for today! I've learned a lot this year about canine eye issues from spending a lot of time in the ophthalmologist's waiting room--there are so many things that can happen to their eyes that if left untreated can cause lifelong pain and/or blindness. I didn't realize that they often remove the dog's eye for some conditions causing pain. The morning we took Toby in for his surgery last week we waited with a lady whose dog was having both eyes removed that morning to alleviate the pain from some condition I've never heard of before. I think that's why I've been trying to encourage you to get to the specialist.

In those photos--are those typical gold eyes from taking the photo inside? If not, I wonder about congenital/juvenile cataracts--but I'm hoping it's just a lighting issue.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Oh, and please use the neo/poly/dex drops until you can get in to help the inflammation.


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

How is JJ doing today?


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Any news? Hope he's better!


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## GoldenMum (Mar 15, 2010)

Just checking in on JJ, is he better today? Thinking of you guys!


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## Lucky Cooper (Jul 22, 2011)

How is the little guy doing?


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Your breeder doesn't happen to be in Colorado, does she? Have any of the vets who've seen him actually flushed his eye to be sure they've gotten out anything that might have been trapped? Anyone mentioned distichia, which is extra eyelashes that rub on the eye, causing redness and inflammation? I feel teribble for your darling puppy and for you and your girlfriend over the worry of it all. If by chance you're in Colorado, I've got the most awesome veterinary opthalmologist ever and would be glad to share.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

JJ's eyes are still the same, no improvement since last night. I thought he was keeping his right eye open more, but I think it may just be my mind playing tricks on me since I want to believe he's getting better.

Health wise, he's good. He's loving the fenced in yard. We were running all over the place before.

I called the e-vet this morning to see if I could get in with the ophthalmologist and they initially told me she wasn't free until next Friday, the 14th. The secretary told me she would talk to the doctor and see if she could get me in earlier and call me back to let me know. With other options available, I figured, why wait for them to call back. So I called an eye clinic that's a little further away from me that's owned by two ophthalmologists that attended Cornell, and they were able to set me up for tomorrow at 11:30. Shortly after I made that appointment, the e-vet called back and said they could squeeze me in tomorrow at 9am. I decided to just go to the clinic that's a little further away from me cause I don't want to be "squeezed in" and rushed, ya know? 



Finn's Fan said:


> Your breeder doesn't happen to be in Colorado, does she? Have any of the vets who've seen him actually flushed his eye to be sure they've gotten out anything that might have been trapped? Anyone mentioned distichia, which is extra eyelashes that rub on the eye, causing redness and inflammation? I feel teribble for your darling puppy and for you and your girlfriend over the worry of it all. If by chance you're in Colorado, I've got the most awesome veterinary opthalmologist ever and would be glad to share.


No, I'm not from Colorado. I'm from NY. Sound like a breeder you're familiar with?


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I'm glad you are seeing a specialist and hope they can diagnose the issue and help get your boy's eyes feeling and looking better. Keep us posted on what the doc finds.


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## ggdenny (Nov 2, 2008)

I'm so glad you're going to a specialist.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

JDK said:


> JJ's eyes are still the same, no improvement since last night. I thought he was keeping his right eye open more, but I think it may just be my mind playing tricks on me since I want to believe he's getting better.
> 
> Health wise, he's good. He's loving the fenced in yard. We were running all over the place before.
> 
> ...


I'm really glad you got the appointment with the specialist. I'm kind of sittin on pins and needles wanting to "fix" him! His eyes look so uncomfortable.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

I'll keep you guys posted. I'm not leaving there without an answer. None of this "wait and see what happens" crap. We've waited long enough.

Those of you who have been to an ophthalmologist, let me ask you, am I gonna have to break the bank for this? I know prices vary by location, but should I be preparing myself for a bill that's a couple thousand? 

I remember somebody asking about the photos I recently posted and whether or not the spot in the center of his eye was caused by the lighting. It was in fact caused by the lightning. I had to use the flash, so what you see in the reflection. As I said, the eyes themselves look fine, IMO and in the opinion of two vets. The problem is more or less around his eye, in the tissue I guess.

On that note, it sort of looks like his right eye is rolling back when he opens his eyelid. He does have control over it, though. It's not like its just floating there all the time. He's able to move it and follow my finger with it.


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## embreeo (Aug 19, 2006)

JDK said:


> I actually haven't been in contact with the breeder. While very nice to begin with, she started to take an attitude awhile ago and we haven't chatted since.JJ got diarrhea shortly after we brought him home. Naturally, I called the breeder just to let her know. She had sent me home with some medications just in case he were to get sick on the ride home or become stressed with the move to a new home. We gave JJ the meds as she told us to and took him to the vet 2-3 days later. We of course had to inform the vet about the meds we gave him before she could give him anything else for the diarrhea, which the breeder told us to do. The vet wasn't happy to hear the breeder sent us home with prescription medication and said, even though she knows a lot of breeders do it, she doesn't agree with it at all. The breeder wanted to know what the vet said, so I called her and told her. She wasn't happy to hear what the vet said and started getting snotty with me over and was even trying to blame me for him getting diarrhea. She was all like "None of my dogs have ever had a problem, and I've been doing this for over 30 years. Maybe you're not ready to own a dog". It was like she implied that I gave him diarrhea. We haven't talked since. The sad part is, I heard nothing but great things about her before hand.
> 
> As far as guarantees, I got the basic clearances on his parents and him for eyes, hips, etc, and I have something in writing that says if he were to come down with a life threatening disease within 6 months, she would give me another puppy for the next litter. As you can imagine, I want nothing to do with that :no:


I'm sorry to hear that you don't have a good relationship with the breeder ... that's one of the most important things to me ... feeling comfortable with the person you are buying the dog from. I was lucky enough to develop a great relationship with the person I got my dogs from ... she's there for me each and every time I have a question ... in fact, she has probably saved me thousands of dollars, not to mention numerous trips to the vet. Over the years, she and I have become personal friends and I can't even begin to tell you how much I've learned from her.

I asked about the guarantee because where I live, 2 years is pretty much the standard, and it doesn't necessarily have to be a life threatening disease before the guarantee kicks in.


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## embreeo (Aug 19, 2006)

JDK said:


> I'll keep you guys posted. I'm not leaving there without an answer. None of this "wait and see what happens" crap. We've waited long enough.
> 
> Those of you who have been to an ophthalmologist, let me ask you, am I gonna have to break the bank for this? I know prices vary by location, but should I be preparing myself for a bill that's a couple thousand?
> 
> ...


I'm really glad to hear that you opted to go to the eye clinic rather than the e-vet.

I once took a 10 week old puppy (not mine) to an ophthalmologist because she had one eye that looked a little cross-eyed. After a thorough examination, the diagnosis was "lazy eye" and the doctor thought she would outgrow it. IIRC, it cost somewhere around $250, and as far as I know, the puppy was fine after that.

Good luck tomorrow ... I'll be thinking about you.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

embreeo said:


> I'm sorry to hear that you don't have a good relationship with the breeder ... that's one of the most important things to me ... feeling comfortable with the person you are buying the dog from. I was lucky enough to develop a great relationship with the person I got my dogs from ... she's there for me each and every time I have a question ... in fact, she has probably saved me thousands of dollars, not to mention numerous trips to the vet. Over the years, she and I have become personal friends and I can't even begin to tell you how much I've learned from her.
> 
> I asked about the guarantee because where I live, 2 years is pretty much the standard, and it doesn't necessarily have to be a life threatening disease before the guarantee kicks in.


I think the breeder thought I was agreeing with the vet, when in fact I was just passing the message along since she wanted to know what the vet said. It was like she was mad I told the vet she sent me home with pills once she learned the vet wasn't happy about that, when she's the one who told me to make sure I tell the vet what she had given me. The whole situation was just strange, and it's a shame it turned out like it did. I never thought to check a guarantee cause one, this was my first time buying a pure breed, and two, I just wanted another dog, guarantees or not.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

embreeo said:


> I'm really glad to hear that you opted to go to the eye clinic rather than the e-vet.
> 
> I once took a 10 week old puppy (not mine) to an ophthalmologist because she had one eye that looked a little cross-eyed. After a thorough examination, the diagnosis was "lazy eye" and the doctor thought she would outgrow it. IIRC, it cost somewhere around $250, and as far as I know, the puppy was fine after that.
> 
> Good luck tomorrow ... I'll be thinking about you.


Out of curiosity, is lazy eye treatable?

The ophthalmologist at the e-vet - it's a regular vet center but functions as the e-vet after hours - seems like she has tons of experience. She attended Tufts, which, from what I hear, is one of the top veterinary schools. But like I said, the fact I was being "squeezed in" just didn't appeal to me right now. I need somebody who's going to go the extra step here to find out what's going on. Not somebody who's going to rush it cause they have another appointment in 15minutes. My decision had nothing to do with her credentials though.

If you're interested, this is where I'm going Veterinary Eye Specialists PLLC - Ardsley, Westchester, New York . The two doctors who work there have plenty of experience. One has 15 years, the other has 10, and both are, of course, board certified.

Thanks for your concern, too.


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## SandyK (Mar 20, 2011)

Wanted to wish you and JJ good-luck tomorrow! I hope you finally get some answers.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

I take my golden girl for a re-check every 6 months due to her PU condition and wouldn't you know I don't remember the actual price. 
The initial visit was about $300, not including the medication. I think CA tends to be a little high as compared with some other areas.

So glad your pup is getting seen by the specialist. Please let us know how it goes...

Oh yes, just wanted to mention I LOVE your signature with the JJ over the pictures of your pup. Really classy!


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## embreeo (Aug 19, 2006)

JDK said:


> Out of curiosity, is lazy eye treatable?
> 
> The ophthalmologist at the e-vet - it's a regular vet center but functions as the e-vet after hours - seems like she has tons of experience. She attended Tufts, which, from what I hear, is one of the top veterinary schools. But like I said, the fact I was being "squeezed in" just didn't appeal to me right now. I need somebody who's going to go the extra step here to find out what's going on. Not somebody who's going to rush it cause they have another appointment in 15minutes. My decision had nothing to do with her credentials though.
> 
> ...


As I recall, my appointment took about an hour and a half. They were very thorough. They did several tests to make sure there wasn't anything wrong with the eye itself. They didn't give me any medicine to treat the puppy. They set a follow up appointment for 4 weeks out, at no extra charge.

P.S. I'm sending you a PM.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

I am sorry your dog has been feeling badly. Worry about him and worry about your ability to pay these bills must be really hard for you.
When I first started reading this thread, I was thinking the eye thing was a neurological reaction to either the vaccinations or the Heartguard.
BTW, did the diarrhea go away?
I wanted to mention that my dog was on Heartguard. Then at age 6 months started having diarrhea. We took him to the vet twice. Then one night his eyes started drooping down so the white area below the pupil showed and you could see the red area of the lower eyelid. He looked terribly ill (but of course when we took him into the emergency vet he got all perked up, just like your dog did). Anyway, in his case it turned out he had whipworms (which Heartguard doesn't protect against). As to why his eyes were affected, in his case I guess it was just that he was so ill from the whipworms. The emergency vet described it as an "Addison's type reaction" which I didn't really understand, but I guess it meant he was sick with one problem, but it presented as another.
Hope the opthamologist can sort your problem out.


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

You're such a good doggy dad!!!


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

lgnutah said:


> I am sorry your dog has been feeling badly. Worry about him and worry about your ability to pay these bills must be really hard for you.
> When I first started reading this thread, I was thinking the eye thing was a neurological reaction to either the vaccinations or the Heartguard.
> BTW, did the diarrhea go away?
> I wanted to mention that my dog was on Heartguard. Then at age 6 months started having diarrhea. We took him to the vet twice. Then one night his eyes started drooping down so the white area below the pupil showed and you could see the red area of the lower eyelid. He looked terribly ill (but of course when we took him into the emergency vet he got all perked up, just like your dog did). Anyway, in his case it turned out he had whipworms (which Heartguard doesn't protect against). As to why his eyes were affected, in his case I guess it was just that he was so ill from the whipworms. The emergency vet described it as an "Addison's type reaction" which I didn't really understand, but I guess it meant he was sick with one problem, but it presented as another.
> Hope the opthamologist can sort your problem out.


I actually read somewhere else how whipworms caused a dog's eye to start drooping. How do they determine if the dog has whipworms or not, a fecal test? And, would that be something the ophthalmologist would check for?


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

Good luck tomorrow. JJ is a such sweet pup.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

lgnutah said:


> BTW, did the diarrhea go away?


Sorry, missed this question before.

JJ's diarrhea has cleared up, however, I think his poop is a little too dry now and I wonder if I should stop giving him the Flagyl they prescribed me. We're going to start mixing his kibble in with the rest of the Hill's Prescription ID we have left tomorrow and see how it goes. I think we have enough left to mix in for the next 2-3 days. So we'll hve him back on kibble by Sunday or Monday. We're also going to call the vet and ask if we should stop the Flagyl since he's firm now.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

JDK said:


> Sorry, missed this question before.
> 
> JJ's diarrhea has cleared up, however, I think his poop is a little too dry now and I wonder if I should stop giving him the Flagyl they prescribed me. We're going to start mixing his kibble in with the rest of the Hill's Prescription ID we have left tomorrow and see how it goes. I think we have enough left to mix in for the next 2-3 days. So we'll hve him back on kibble by Sunday or Monday. We're also going to call the vet and ask if we should stop the Flagyl since he's firm now.


I would take the flagyl until the pills are gone just in case it's bacterial related--or unless the new vet suggests you stop it. Be sure to ask about it today. 

We didn't pay as much as the others mentioned at our first ophthalmology appointment back in 2004. Now we pay about $100 per semi-annual revisit. They went up $10 this year. The drops can be expensive though!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

JDK said:


> I'll keep you guys posted. I'm not leaving there without an answer. None of this "wait and see what happens" crap. We've waited long enough.
> 
> Those of you who have been to an ophthalmologist, let me ask you, am I gonna have to break the bank for this? I know prices vary by location, but should I be preparing myself for a bill that's a couple thousand?
> 
> ...


That's good about the light being just plain yellow eye and not a cataract! The ophthalmologist will exam for that anyway today. 

I hope they can give you a diagnosis today and relieve some of your worry. Also, you might consider asking them if they can recommend a vet near where you live. I got a referral for our long term vet from an orthopedic specialist in the early 90s--best referral ever!


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

Thinking good thoughts for JJ today!


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

JDK said:


> Sorry, missed this question before.
> 
> JJ's diarrhea has cleared up, however, I think his poop is a little too dry now and I wonder if I should stop giving him the Flagyl they prescribed me. We're going to start mixing his kibble in with the rest of the Hill's Prescription ID we have left tomorrow and see how it goes. I think we have enough left to mix in for the next 2-3 days. So we'll hve him back on kibble by Sunday or Monday. We're also going to call the vet and ask if we should stop the Flagyl since he's firm now.


I wouldn't stop the Flagyl. It's like antibiotics, if you don't take for the length of time prescribed, you can have a relapse. It's more likely the Hill's that is drying them out and, honestly, I like the drier poops-they are usually very solid and help to empty the anal glands. Now, if they were so dry he was having a hard time pooping, or it hurt him, then I would be concerned.


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## Sosoprano (Apr 27, 2011)

Just catching up with this thread now and sending positive thoughts to you and JJ for a good visit with the ophthalmologist :crossfing


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## Angelina (Aug 11, 2011)

Thinking of you and your puppy's eye appointment today...I hope you come back with some good news.....K


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## DaisyGolden (Jan 4, 2008)

I hope everthing goes well for JJ today and you get some answers.


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

Whipworms are detected with a fecal test, yes. And when Jaro showed up with them at his one year exam, the vet gave him a treatment of panacur and then we switched to Interceptor which does kill whipworms since the eggs live in the soil for a long time.
As to lazy eye being treatable, I am sure it could be in dogs as it is in people but it is real surgery and doesn't always succeed. They have to reatach the muscles that hold the eye. While it may correct itself in appearance it might not restore complete vision in both eyes. My husband and daughter both had it, my husbands was not surgically corrected but his eyes look straight but he can't really see out of one eye. My daughter did have surgery so eyes look straight but still does not see from both eyes. The brain turns off one of the images it is getting when the eyes don't focus togehter, so the vision issue is a brain problem as much as an eye problem.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

It's such a relief when you get a straight answer and a solution to the problem.

JJ and I just returned from the ophthalmologist and have come to learn that he has an ingrown eyelash that's irritating his right eye, and that his left eye is probably acting up due to that and the fact he's straining it. The doctor was very nice, and he's got two Goldens of his own which are his 7 and 8th ones. So as you can imagine, he was loving JJ. He informed me that the eyes themselves look great from front to back. The cost today was $213, which isn't bad and was well worth it. He goes in for surgery a week from today. The doctor said it's not a hard surgery, just a tedious one, and that there's only a 1% chance the eyelash will grow back. Those of you familiar with this, is that true? I hope the surgery isn't dangerous. The estimate they gave me for surgery sits around $1,000, give or take a few bucks. I just have to take him back to his primary vet before then to get some blood work done.


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

JDK said:


> It's such a relief when you get a straight answer and a solution to the problem.
> 
> JJ and I just returned from the ophthalmologist and have come to learn that he has an ingrown eyelash that's irritating his right eye, and that his left eye is probably acting up due to that and the fact he's straining it. The doctor was very nice, and he's got two Goldens of his own which are his 7 and 8th ones. So as you can imagine, he was loving JJ. He informed me that the eyes themselves look great from front to back. The cost today was $213, which isn't bad and was well worth it. He goes in for surgery a week from today. The doctor said it's not a hard surgery, just a tedious one, and that there's only a 1% chance the eyelash will grow back. Those of you familiar with this, is that true? I hope the surgery isn't dangerous. The estimate they gave me for surgery sits around $1,000, give or take a few bucks. I just have to take him back to his primary vet before then to get some blood work done.


Oh wow! I am SO GLAD that you finally got a solution for poor JJ, and a little peace of mind. Sometimes it is so worth it to listen to your gut.

I hope he is back to himself and feeling better soon! I know I have already said this before, but seriously, you're a good doggy dad.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Now I'm wondering though, should I take JJ to puppy class with all this going on?

He's suppose to start tonight. He's still wearing the cone since his eye itches and the doctor doesn't want to take a chance on him scratching it and infecting it. He said we could take the cone off while we're at class since he'll be busy checking everything else out that's around him and won't have time to think about his eye. The only thing I'm not really sure about is that his surgery is next Friday and I don't know if he's going to feel up to going after getting sedated and all earlier that day. I would hate to start the classes and have to miss the second one due to any possible after effects caused by the surgery. So now I'm debating that, and if I should wait until his eye is fully healed or just go now and not worry about missing one class.


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## Angelina (Aug 11, 2011)

I am so happy you have a real answer and at this point would trust the vet. It is great especially that it does not impede on his vision. Please let us know how it goes.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

nixietink said:


> I hope he is back to himself and feeling better soon! I know I have already said this before, but seriously, you're a good doggy dad.


Thanks, it's nice to hear that once in awhile, especially since just last month a lot of people here were suggesting that I'm not ready for a dog or that I couldn't afford one. I'd spend my last penny on him if I had to, and would be more then happy doing so if it meant he'd be healthy and happy.


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## DaisyGolden (Jan 4, 2008)

I'm so glad you found out what is wrong with JJ. I had a cat who had that same surgery and he came through it with no problems and the eyelashes never grew back.


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## Sosoprano (Apr 27, 2011)

Oh, my goodness, what a relief! And all because of a little eyelash :doh: . I don't know anything about the surgery, but given the level of discomfort JJ's in, I'd think it would be worth it. Hopefully he'll be feeling much, much better very soon. (BTW, Pippa was diagnosed with distichiasis, which is what I assume JJ was diagnosed with, too, though so far no symptoms. I'm taking notes from your experience just in case!)

I think I'd vote to go to puppy class if you think it would provide JJ with some welcome distraction. He might be really happy if he can just forget about his eye for awhile, and missing next week is no big deal. But if you think going to class might actually be stressful for him, then I'd skip it and sign up for a later session. He doesn't need anything more to worry about.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

I wonder how many more times I would of had to take him back to his regular vet before they figured out it was an ingrown eyelash. It was a matter of minutes before this guy told me what was grown. Not that I'm knocking his regular vet, I know they can only do so much with the equipment they have. This guy, though, broke out all the major eye equipment. All sorts of head gear, magnify glasses, black lights, the whole nine. I was pleased.


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## Sosoprano (Apr 27, 2011)

JDK said:


> I wonder how many more times I would of had to take him back to his regular vet before they figured out it was an ingrown eyelash.


Actually, I do knock the regular vet because they said he was "fine" just because the eye itself was fine. I don't think any level of chronic squinting or swelling is okay. IMO, they should have referred you right away if they couldn't figure out what was causing everything.


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## embreeo (Aug 19, 2006)

JDK said:


> It's such a relief when you get a straight answer and a solution to the problem.
> 
> JJ and I just returned from the ophthalmologist and have come to learn that he has an ingrown eyelash that's irritating his right eye, and that his left eye is probably acting up due to that and the fact he's straining it. The doctor was very nice, and he's got two Goldens of his own which are his 7 and 8th ones. So as you can imagine, he was loving JJ. He informed me that the eyes themselves look great from front to back. The cost today was $213, which isn't bad and was well worth it. He goes in for surgery a week from today. The doctor said it's not a hard surgery, just a tedious one, and that there's only a 1% chance the eyelash will grow back. Those of you familiar with this, is that true? I hope the surgery isn't dangerous. The estimate they gave me for surgery sits around $1,000, give or take a few bucks. I just have to take him back to his primary vet before then to get some blood work done.


DISTICHIASIS AND ECTOPIC CILIA. Eyelids of dogs can grow abnormal hairs. These hairs grow from the oil glands (Meibomian glands) of the lids and are called distichia if the hair protrudes from the oil gland opening onto the edge of the eyelid. Distichia are often irritating, especially if the hairs are long and stiff. Ectopic cilia are also hairs growing from oil glands on the eyelid, but the hair protrudes from the inner surface of the eyelid and is very painful, often causing corneal ulcers.

Dogs with distichiasis may or may not show signs of discomfort, ranging from slight intermittent squinting and/or rubbing of the eyes, to severe squinting and discomfort. Dogs with ectopic cilia are always uncomfortable. Most dogs with ectopic cilia are young adult dogs or older puppies. Both conditions are common in Shih Tzus. Many other breeds have problems with distichia. At Animal Eye Care, both conditions are treated surgically under general anesthesia, with a procedure called cryoepilation. With this procedure, the abnormal hair follicles are frozen using a liquid nitrogen probe, and the hairs then removed. 

After surgery, the eyelids are swollen for 4-5 days, and the eyelid margins will depigment and turn pink. Usually, the lid margins will repigment within 4 months. It is important to understand that new abnormal hairs can grow from new sites after surgery, but this is uncommon in dogs older than 3 years old (unless the dog is a Shih Tzu). With cryoepilation, 85-90% of the treated hair follicles will not regrow. Repeat surgical treatment is rarely required, unless the animal is a puppy (and grows new hairs in new sites) or a Shih Tzu.

Canine Eyelid Diseases - Animal Eye Care

*Glad to hear you finally got the problem properly diagnosed ... I'm sure you're very relieved. I know you said you don't have a great relationship with your breeder, but I would definitely let her know about this.*


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

What a relief you know what it is and can get it taken care of, even though it's surgery! I don't know about the pricing you mentioned for the surgery--our double cataract procedure was just under $3500 with a few extra $$$ for expensive eye medications. 

Did they keep him on the neo/poly/dex or prescribe something else? What about antibiotics? 

If your pup is like mine he won't feel up to too much activity after the surgery. The sedation will most likely make him sleep for the remainder of the day and perhaps into the next morning. That might figure into your decision on whether to postpone classes or start immediately. I'm a confirmed worry wart and would be nervous about other dogs getting near his eyes during the class (in play or in getting acquainted), but my husband tells me I worry too much. 

I'm glad the rest of his eye exam went well--you should be relieved about that too. Believe me it's not fun having a dog with vision issues! And yes, all the stuff they bring out for the exam is rather eye opening-pun intended. I especially like they way they use the eye poker and also how they put paper strips in their eyes!


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

I'm so glad to read that you've found a reason for why JJ has been acting so uncomfortable. I am really REALLY glad that you stuck to your guns and eventually went to see a specialist.

As far as the classes go, even if JJ isn't up to it there's no reason you or your girlfriend can't go! You could sit and observe and at least get your money's worth.


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## embreeo (Aug 19, 2006)

JDK said:


> I wonder how many more times I would of had to take him back to his regular vet before they figured out it was an ingrown eyelash. It was a matter of minutes before this guy told me what was grown. Not that I'm knocking his regular vet, I know they can only do so much with the equipment they have. This guy, though, broke out all the major eye equipment. All sorts of head gear, magnify glasses, black lights, the whole nine. I was pleased.


Even though a specialist might be a little more expensive, I think it's worth it in the long run. You may have paid for several "regular vet" visits, or gone to another vet, only to find out you ultimately have to see a specialist anyway. The end cost may be about the same.


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## embreeo (Aug 19, 2006)

nixietink said:


> I know I have already said this before, but seriously, you're a good doggy dad.


I second that!


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Sosoprano said:


> Actually, I do knock the regular vet because they said he was "fine" just because the eye itself was fine. I don't think any level of chronic squinting or swelling is okay. IMO, they should have referred you right away if they couldn't figure out what was causing everything.


Good point.



kdmarsh said:


> I'm so glad to read that you've found a reason for why JJ has been acting so uncomfortable. I am really REALLY glad that you stuck to your guns and eventually went to see a specialist.
> 
> As far as the classes go, even if JJ isn't up to it there's no reason you or your girlfriend can't go! You could sit and observe and at least get your money's worth.


If we decide not to go, we're able to call and reschedule for another time. At least that's what my girlfriend said (she's the one who signed him up).



Dallas Gold said:


> What a relief you know what it is and can get it taken care of, even though it's surgery! I don't know about the pricing you mentioned for the surgery--our double cataract procedure was just under $3500 with a few extra $$$ for expensive eye medications.
> 
> Did they keep him on the neo/poly/dex or prescribe something else? What about antibiotics?
> 
> ...


Instead of eyedrops, they gave us a neo/poly/dex ointment, which the doctor believes works better. He showed me how to apply it, and honestly, it looked like a pain in the ass haha. My girlfriend is better at those things, so I'll let her do it while I hold him down  He said to use the ointment right up until the time of surgery.

I hear ya about worrying about the other dogs getting near his eye when they're playing. I have that worry as well. From what I read after some quick research, the eye will be swollen for about 3-4 days after surgery and that within 2 weeks time he'll be back to normal. That's what makes me question whether or not I should start the class. Even though most training is based on sound, I would like him to at least be able to focus on me and make good eye contact, and if his eye is bothering him, or swollen, or stitched up, it may be hard for him to keep his focus, or see me for that matter.

Do they have to take the stitches out or do they use ones that dissolve?


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## KiwiD (Jan 14, 2008)

So glad to hear that you stuck with your gut instinct and took him to a specialist. Too bad he needs surgery but hopefully he'll be feeling 100% better after his procedure.


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## GoldenMum (Mar 15, 2010)

I am so happy to hear the results. Sounds like with surgery and a little TLC, JJ will be his old self in no time. Thank you for pushing through til you got a diagnosis....JJ is lucky to have you in his corner!


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## Brandiann (Jul 24, 2011)

Glad you finally got an answer and he's on the right track to being a happy healthy pup again! Good luck with surgery and way to be persistent! JJ is lucky to have such good parents!


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

I contacted the breeder to tell her about what's going on, and she sort of acted like I was doing the wrong thing by having surgery. She started off by saying, and I quote, "In all of my years of breeding I have not heard of having to have surgery for distichia". So I mentioned the fact that the doctor said the lash is hard and stiff and that surgery is the only way to ensure it doesn't grow back, possibly even thicker then before. Also mentioned that it's clear JJ is bothered by it. She then went on to say, and I quote again, "I know a lot of people whose dogs have distichia and are still considered breedable, but not one who has ever had surgery for it...I might get a second option. Sometimes they fall out within a month. I might give it some time, hate to see him go under anesthesia for something like that."

Is she serious? Does she really want me to wait a month, when it's clear it's bothering JJ? I gave it enough time, a week to be exact, and saw no improvement what so ever. I hate to see him go under anesthesia, too, but I hate more to see him miserable, and in pain. I also read that if you let it go to long and it's not a soft eyelash, it can cause problems for the eye itself, like cause an ulcer. Maybe if she saw JJ, and was able to see what his eyes really look like, she'd change her mind about going through with the surgery.


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## Angelina (Aug 11, 2011)

Don't listen to her...she is obviously taking it personally. Your dog is getting worst, not better and you are doing the right thing. Just google it and there is plenty of research. I remember reading about dogs with this issue (Maybe it was the Jame's Herriot books) and how happy vets were to be able to relieve the dogs of this unnecessary pain and suffering. Your dog will be fine. You know in your Heart what is best for your dog.

If you feel better about getting a 2nd opinion of course do it, but don't let this person's one opinion stop you from treatment. She is too close to her breeding program and must feel it is a bad mark on her. JMHO, of course...


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

JDK said:


> I contacted the breeder to tell her about what's going on, and she sort of acted like I was doing the wrong thing by having surgery. She started off by saying, and I quote, "In all of my years of breeding I have not heard of having to have surgery for distichia". So I mentioned the fact that the doctor said the lash is hard and stiff and that surgery is the only way to ensure it doesn't grow back, possibly even thicker then before. Also mentioned that it's clear JJ is bothered by it. She then went on to say, and I quote again, "I know a lot of people whose dogs have distichia and are still considered breedable, but not one who has ever had surgery for it...I might get a second option. Sometimes they fall out within a month. I might give it some time, hate to see him go under anesthesia for something like that."
> 
> Is she serious? Does she really want me to wait a month, when it's clear it's bothering JJ? I gave it enough time, a week to be exact, and saw no improvement what so ever. I hate to see him go under anesthesia, too, but I hate more to see him miserable, and in pain. I also read that if you let it go to long and it's not a soft eyelash, it can cause problems for the eye itself, like cause an ulcer. Maybe if she saw JJ, and was able to see what his eyes really look like, she'd change her mind about going through with the surgery.


I'm with you--I'd get it done because it might cause an ulcer to the eye. I'd take a specialist's word over this particular breeder's opinion any day. She seems a little too sensitive about a lot of things related to the health of your pup.


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## DaisyGolden (Jan 4, 2008)

JDK said:


> I contacted the breeder to tell her about what's going on, and she sort of acted like I was doing the wrong thing by having surgery. She started off by saying, and I quote, "In all of my years of breeding I have not heard of having to have surgery for distichia". So I mentioned the fact that the doctor said the lash is hard and stiff and that surgery is the only way to ensure it doesn't grow back, possibly even thicker then before. Also mentioned that it's clear JJ is bothered by it. She then went on to say, and I quote again, "I know a lot of people whose dogs have distichia and are still considered breedable, but not one who has ever had surgery for it...I might get a second option. Sometimes they fall out within a month. I might give it some time, hate to see him go under anesthesia for something like that."
> 
> Is she serious? Does she really want me to wait a month, when it's clear it's bothering JJ? I gave it enough time, a week to be exact, and saw no improvement what so ever. I hate to see him go under anesthesia, too, but I hate more to see him miserable, and in pain. I also read that if you let it go to long and it's not a soft eyelash, it can cause problems for the eye itself, like cause an ulcer. Maybe if she saw JJ, and was able to see what his eyes really look like, she'd change her mind about going through with the surgery.


I think you and the doctor are right and she is totally wrong. I can't imagine if I had something in my eye and couldn't get it out how awful I would feel. My cat Nicky had the same thing and his eyes really bothered him, but after the surgery and some healing time he was perfect for the rest of his life.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

JDK said:


> Good point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For me, eye ointments are much harder to put on a dog!! Good luck there. 

Toby has stitches that dissolve and don't need to be removed. I hope that's what they use on your boy! We'll find out Monday if they are dissolving. :crossfing


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

I couldn't agree more. She's obviously taking this personally and doesn't want to accept that fact that one of pups is having a few problems. She gets all defensive. I'm not trying to blame her. It's not like I'm pointing fingers, and saying something like, "you gave me a defective dog". I'm just informing her about what's going on, and she's all like, "no no, that can't be. It's never happened before". If I remember correctly, we never had a black man as President before Obama either. Things change.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Dallas Gold said:


> For me, eye ointments are much harder to put on a dog!! Good luck there.
> 
> Toby has stitches that dissolve and don't need to be removed. I hope that's what they use on your boy! We'll find out Monday if they are dissolving. :crossfing


Yea, I'm not looking forward to the whole eye ointment process, and I sometimes ask myself, can't I just use the drops instead since they're the same.

We have to apply the ointment in an hour, so I'll let you know how it goes. JJ's basically passed out now on the living room floor, so I'm hoping with him being tired and all, he'll just accept what's coming to him :crossfing I think the hardest part is going to be trying to pull up on his eye and apply it where the doctor told me to. Maybe I'll see if I can find a YouTube video on it and watch it over and over again to give myself some confidence haha.

Good luck with Toby, too. It would be nice if they put stitches in that dissolved, that way he wouldn't have to get sedated again when they come out. Or can they just pull them out? I imagine they wouldn't want to risk going near a dogs eye for something like that unless he was sedated.


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## embreeo (Aug 19, 2006)

JDK said:


> I contacted the breeder to tell her about what's going on, and she sort of acted like I was doing the wrong thing by having surgery. She started off by saying, and I quote, "In all of my years of breeding I have not heard of having to have surgery for distichia". So I mentioned the fact that the doctor said the lash is hard and stiff and that surgery is the only way to ensure it doesn't grow back, possibly even thicker then before. Also mentioned that it's clear JJ is bothered by it. She then went on to say, and I quote again, "I know a lot of people whose dogs have distichia and are still considered breedable, but not one who has ever had surgery for it...I might get a second option. Sometimes they fall out within a month. I might give it some time, hate to see him go under anesthesia for something like that."
> 
> Is she serious? Does she really want me to wait a month, when it's clear it's bothering JJ? I gave it enough time, a week to be exact, and saw no improvement what so ever. I hate to see him go under anesthesia, too, but I hate more to see him miserable, and in pain. I also read that if you let it go to long and it's not a soft eyelash, it can cause problems for the eye itself, like cause an ulcer. Maybe if she saw JJ, and was able to see what his eyes really look like, she'd change her mind about going through with the surgery.


I'm sorry but I totally disagree with your breeder. In my neck of the woods, a dog with dystichiasis would not pass a CERF exam and therefore should not be bred. From the contracts I've seen, dystichiasis would be something that is covered under the guarantee. I know you said your guarantee was only for 6 months, but your puppy is still under that age, right?

I also agree with the other posters as far as going ahead with the surgery ... why take the risk of possible damage to the eye if left alone.


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

I bet there are no stitches if the procedure is as described above. Can you imagine how small the ingrown lash is? But I sure am glad you got him to the right doctor who knew what was going on. I have allergies which make my eyes hurt so I know how uncomfortable this is.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

embreeo said:


> I'm sorry but I totally disagree with your breeder. In my neck of the woods, a dog with dystichiasis would not pass a CERF exam and therefore should not be bred. From the contracts I've seen, dystichiasis would be something that is covered under the guarantee. I know you said your guarantee was only for 6 months, but your puppy is still under that age, right?
> 
> I also agree with the other posters as far as going ahead with the surgery ... why take the risk of possible damage to the eye if left alone.


From what she has told me, the parents don't have it. The CERF exams were a little outdated though, at least for the male. I didn't know enough about all that at the time. The CERF for JJ's father is dated 9/7/08. The one for his mother is dated 3/8/09.

I just pulled the papers out to read the guarantee. This is what it says, "Seller guarantees that should this puppy develop a problem that is HEREDITARY and LIFE THREATENING within the first six months of the puppy's sale, Seller will replace the puppy with a similar puppy from a future litter of the Seller's choice at no charge to the Buyer. There are no cash refunds. Our vet must examine the puppy to confirm diagnosis."

So, as you can see, the guarantee is only good if the problem is hereditary and life threatening. Even if I could "exchange" this guy due to the problem, I wouldn't dream of it. I'm willing to spend what's needed to get him fixed. He's here to stay.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

I emailed the breeder back, and once again, she's acting like I'm doing something new here that's never been done before.
This is what my last email said....

No, the eye didn't get better with medication. It actually showed
signs of getting worse. And since he's clamping his right eye closed,
he's straining his left eye. It's been a week since he started having
problems with his eye, and truthfully, we don't want it to go on any
longer or get worse if it's fixable. I couldn't imagine waiting a
month just to see whether or not it falls out. If I couldn't use my
eye for a month and had to strain my other one cause of it, i'd go
nuts. You can clearly see it bothers him, and he's miserable having to
wear a cone on his head. I actually got a second opinion, over the
phone. I called another eye specialist and told them what has been
discovered, and I asked them if I took JJ there, would they pluck it
or surgically remove it. They said surgically remove it. From what I
gathered talking to other dog owners, surgery is the best way to
remove it completely, and is what most people do."

She responded with....

"Well let me know....in all of my years in dogs and having done this breeding before, have never heard of it,,,,,,,,,,,I assume they will do electrolysis which should not be too invasive......."

I have no idea what electrolysis is or whether or not they'll be using it, but I assume they're going to be safe and cautious with whatever they do.


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## embreeo (Aug 19, 2006)

JDK said:


> From what she has told me, the parents don't have it. The CERF exams were a little outdated though, at least for the male. I didn't know enough about all that at the time. The CERF for JJ's father is dated 9/7/08. The one for his mother is dated 3/8/09.
> 
> I just pulled the papers out to read the guarantee. This is what it says, "Seller guarantees that should this puppy develop a problem that is HEREDITARY and LIFE THREATENING within the first six months of the puppy's sale, Seller will replace the puppy with a similar puppy from a future litter of the Seller's choice at no charge to the Buyer. There are no cash refunds. Our vet must examine the puppy to confirm diagnosis."
> 
> So, as you can see, the guarantee is only good if the problem is hereditary and life threatening. Even if I could "exchange" this guy due to the problem, I wouldn't dream of it. I'm willing to spend what's needed to get him fixed. He's here to stay.


Although there is no definitive answer as to whether dystichiasis is hereditary, many think that it is. If CERF won't pass a dog with dystichiasis, what does that tell you? If your breeder is "reputable", she should at least offer to reimburse expenses up to the purchase price of the puppy. Where I live, breeders are liable for one and a half times the purchase price of the puppy. Also, if this breeder has been breeding for as many years as he/she says, I find it hard, if not impossible, to believe that he/she has never heard of it before!


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

embreeo said:


> Although there is no definitive answer as to whether dystichiasis is hereditary, many think that it is. If CERF won't pass a dog with dystichiasis, what does that tell you? If your breeder is "reputable", she should at least offer to reimburse expenses up to the purchase price of the puppy. Where I live, breeders are liable for one and a half times the purchase price of the puppy. Also, if this breeder has been breeding for as many years as he/she says, I find it hard, if not impossible, to believe that he/she has never heard of it before!


I'm still brushing up on what exactly CERF is  

Maybe I was foolish going with this breeder, I dunno, but like I said, I really didn't know what to look for or ask for before making the decision. It was basically a surprise for my girlfriend, so I had to make the arrangements late at night. This lady was said to be reputable though. I checked around, browsed the web, and all that. She's heavily involved in show dogs and wins quite often. As you may agree by the look of JJ, she breeds beautiful animals. My excitement may have caused me to rush the decision, though. Neither here nor there, I'm as happy as can be with JJ. Even if it could be proven that it was hereditary, I wouldn't replace him for the world. Even if it were a life threatening situation, I couldn't return him. My heart wouldn't let me. We're very fond of him and he's very fond of us. If I returned him with the chance he was going to die, I would feel shame for the rest of my life, knowing that I abandoned him to die in the hands of somebody else. He probably doesn't even remember the breeder. We're his parents now and I'm sure he would like us to be there by his side every step of the way, through the good and bad. Just thinking about returning him in a situation like that makes me feel upset.


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## embreeo (Aug 19, 2006)

JDK said:


> I'm still brushing up on what exactly CERF is
> 
> Maybe I was foolish going with this breeder, I dunno, but like I said, I really didn't know what to look for or ask for before making the decision. It was basically a surprise for my girlfriend, so I had to make the arrangements late at night. This lady was said to be reputable though. I checked around, browsed the web, and all that. She's heavily involved in show dogs and wins quite often. As you may agree by the look of JJ, she breeds beautiful animals. My excitement may have caused me to rush the decision, though. Neither here nor there, I'm as happy as can be with JJ. Even if it could be proven that it was hereditary, I wouldn't replace him for the world. Even if it were a life threatening situation, I couldn't return him. My heart wouldn't let me. We're very fond of him and he's very fond of us. If I returned him with the chance he was going to die, I would feel shame for the rest of my life, knowing that I abandoned him to die in the hands of somebody else. He probably doesn't even remember the breeder. We're his parents now and I'm sure he would like us to be there by his side every step of the way, through the good and bad. Just thinking about returning him in a situation like that makes me feel upset.


Of course I never meant to imply that you would "exchange" JJ for another puppy! I just think the breeder should offer some sort of reimbursement for your expenses because they do pertain to his health. JMHO. I don't blame you for not knowing all there is to know when you bought your first dog ... heck, I've had goldens for 30+ years and I am still learning.


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## ozzy'smom (Jun 18, 2011)

It sounds like she's taking it personally and being defensive. I once had a small fleck of mascara/dirt in my eye and it was AWFUL. I didn't know what was going on and ended up at urgent care. My husband still makes fun of me for overreacting to a piece of dirt but it really hurt. I wouldn't have wanted to live with it for a month.

I had a dog with what I guess was dystichiasis but it didn't seem to bother him much. If it had, I would have done surgery in a heartbeat. Seriously, who wants their pet to suffer?

As for the cost, you should see if the surgery center offers "Care Credit". We used it with Ozzy for his recent emergency surgery. It's a 6 months, no interest thing. As long as we make our payments on time we get to pay off the balance over 6 months with no interest. 

CareCredit® Veterinary Financing for Pet Care, Pet Surgery, Vaccinations & Other Veterinary Medicine Procedures


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

ozzy'smom said:


> It sounds like she's taking it personally and being defensive. I once had a small fleck of mascara/dirt in my eye and it was AWFUL. I didn't know what was going on and ended up at urgent care. My husband still makes fun of me for overreacting to a piece of dirt but it really hurt. I wouldn't have wanted to live with it for a month.
> 
> I had a dog with what I guess was dystichiasis but it didn't seem to bother him much. If it had, I would have done surgery in a heartbeat. Seriously, who wants their pet to suffer?
> 
> ...


I'll look into it, thanks.

After this, we're considering looking into dog insurance. Anybody here have any for their pup, and if so, is it worth wild or what?


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## Sophie_Mom (Jan 21, 2009)

You are a good puppy-dad!


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## BriGuy (Aug 31, 2010)

JDK said:


> I'll look into it, thanks.
> 
> After this, we're considering looking into dog insurance. Anybody here have any for their pup, and if so, is it worth wild or what?


After reading all the stories on here about how common it is for pups to eat socks and rocks, etc., I got pet insurance. We'd probably be better off just socking away $25 a month into a "doggy medical cost" fund, but that slight risk of expensive medical costs worried me a bit too much. 

We have a policy with Embrace, and they've been surprisingly easy to deal with for the 2 claims we did end up making.

Just remember that it is more like car insurance than human health insurance. By that I mean it pays only for accidents and injury, and not for routine care. There are policies you can get for routine care, but it didn't seem worth it when I looked.

Good luck with JJ!


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

Of course, once you buy pet insurance, your dog will never have another health problem!! jk
I have PetPlan. It costs about $25-30 a month, has $200 deductible per injury or illness, then pays 80% of the cost. So it is really just for, well something like what you have been dealing with.
Pet insurance will exclude illness or injury already existing when you get the policy (they may let you cover that thing if a certain amount of time has gone by and the pet hasn't had the problem anymore). 
So the insurance costs about $325 a year, and after 10 years you would have paid in what one significant illness/injury would cost you.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

lgnutah said:


> Of course, once you buy pet insurance, your dog will never have another health problem!! jk
> I have PetPlan. It costs about $25-30 a month, has $200 deductible per injury or illness, then pays 80% of the cost. So it is really just for, well something like what you have been dealing with.
> Pet insurance will exclude illness or injury already existing when you get the policy (they may let you cover that thing if a certain amount of time has gone by and the pet hasn't had the problem anymore).
> So the insurance costs about $325 a year, and after 10 years you would have paid in what one significant illness/injury would cost you.


I really need to get on the phone and call PetPlan to ask some questions. As you mentioned, they don't cover existing problems as most insurance companies don't. I wouldn't expect them to cover the surgery for the ingrown eyelash (I don't imagine I could hide it from them), but it raises the question, would they cover UTI's and diarrhea even though JJ's had them before? He got a UTI and diarrhea within the first 2 weeks of owning him. In fact, he came home with diarrhea.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

What they do is ask you to sign a consent form, allowing them to access your dog's medical records at your vet. Then when you file a claim, they get the records and check to see what his medical history has been.
If you go to the PetPlan website (gopetplan.com) you can read all about how they enroll new pets, what the different plans are, etc. They also have a phone number you can call and someone will answer all your questions.
At this point, I am sure you are thinking, Man, wish I had been told about pet insurance a couple of months ago when I go this puppy cause I would only have invested about $50 in premiums, and they would have covered all these vet bills. 
But, since it does seem that your dog has had a few "issues" already with his health, if you get the insurance now, you will have it for any future (different) problem that might arise.
Little things like diarrhea aren't something they exclude forever. I think they actually ask for a health exam to be done when you enroll (but I am not 100% sure on this).


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

lgnutah said:


> What they do is ask you to sign a consent form, allowing them to access your dog's medical records at your vet. Then when you file a claim, they get the records and check to see what his medical history has been.
> If you go to the PetPlan website (gopetplan.com) you can read all about how they enroll new pets, what the different plans are, etc. They also have a phone number you can call and someone will answer all your questions.
> At this point, I am sure you are thinking, Man, wish I had been told about pet insurance a couple of months ago when I go this puppy cause I would only have invested about $50 in premiums, and they would have covered all these vet bills.
> But, since it does seem that your dog has had a few "issues" already with his health, if you get the insurance now, you will have it for any future (different) problem that might arise.
> Little things like diarrhea aren't something they exclude forever. I think they actually ask for a health exam to be done when you enroll (but I am not 100% sure on this).


I've always known about pet insurance. Just hadn't had the time to look into it with everything going on with JJ. As you can imagine, my mind was somewhere else. It would of been nice to have, though, especially for the surgery coming up. Ah well, no reason to cry about it now.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Just a quick updated on JJ's status for all those who've been following along.

JJ's eye has improved majorly in the past week. We called the eye specialist today to make sure they received the results for his blood work and to let them know how he was doing. We spoke with the doctor and told him JJ's eye is basically back to normal, and that he doesn't appear to be trying to rub it, even with the cone on. With that being said, he suggested that maybe the hair fell out and said at this time there's no need for surgery, and that if we notice his eye swelling up or any other symptoms, to bring him back in and he'll take another look. He also told us to continue with the eye ointment for another week.

We've had the cone off for a few hours now and he hasn't gone near the eye once (knock on wood :crossfing). So it looks like the little guy won't have to go under the knife right now


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

That's great news! I'm glad you don't have to put him through surgery, what a relief for you guys.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

great news


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## SandyK (Mar 20, 2011)

Great news!! I am so glad things are getting better for JJ.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

JDK said:


> Just a quick updated on JJ's status for all those who've been following along.
> 
> JJ's eye has improved majorly in the past week. We called the eye specialist today to make sure they received the results for his blood work and to let them know how he was doing. We spoke with the doctor and told him JJ's eye is basically back to normal, and that he doesn't appear to be trying to rub it, even with the cone on. With that being said, he suggested that maybe the hair fell out and said at this time there's no need for surgery, and that if we notice his eye swelling up or any other symptoms, to bring him back in and he'll take another look. He also told us to continue with the eye ointment for another week.
> 
> We've had the cone off for a few hours now and he hasn't gone near the eye once (knock on wood :crossfing). So it looks like the little guy won't have to go under the knife right now


Excellent!!!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

This is wonderful news! I bet you are so relieved!


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Dallas Gold said:


> This is wonderful news! I bet you are so relieved!


Relieved doesn't even describe it. I felt so bad that my little guy was gonna have to go under the knife at such a young age.

I may end up taking him back to get checked out again next week, regardless. His right eye is still tearing up more then the other one. Not as much as before when the problems first started, though. He always had small tear stains on both his eyes, but his right eye has a rather larger stain area. I'll have to see if I can get a photo when he wakes up later. The specialist said it may just be tearing from the eye ointment, which is possible, I suppose.

These are some older photos, showing how there was always evidence of tear stains. The little amount we see here is normal, right?


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## embreeo (Aug 19, 2006)

That's great news! I think it's a good idea to have him re-checked if the tearing continues. As you said, it could be from the ointment but goldens typically don't have tear stains as in other breeds (i.e., poodles, cockers, maltese).


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*So Glad*

So very glad that he is alright!!


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

Glad things are looking good. I have allergies and when my eyes are killing me, I am one unhappy camper.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Surprise Surprise....JJ is continuing to have some problems.

For starters, his eye looks to be bothering him again. He's not clamping it shut like he was last time, but he does squint it sometimes. Specially when you're giving him tickles. It's tearing at times, too. I also noticed that every single time he wakes up from a nap, he goes to scratch his eye. He'll do his usual cat-like stretching, followed by rubbing his eyes on the carpet and trying to paw at them, which is where I step in to stop him. If you recall, the problem was originally with his right eye, but I'm noticing that he's rubbing both of them on the carpet now and trying to paw at both of them. The only time he'll try to scratch them is right after waking up. After that initial stretch, he won't bother with his eyes again until he wakes up from another nap.

He's set to go back to the ophthalmologist this coming Friday for another exam.

The diarrhea also returned this morning, as well as last week. Last Tuesday, November 1st, JJ started getting the squirts. This was after we had started the transition onto his new food (Fromm - Duck and Sweet Potato). He had been on a mixture of I/D kibble and Fromm for about a week and a half before this. Suddenly, on Tuesday, his stool started getting soft and by the end of the night he had diarrhea. We called the vet and he said to go back to just I/D kibble until he firms up, which we did. By Wednesday morning he was solid again.

We continued to give him just I/D kibble until Friday. His last meal of just I/D kibble was Friday night. This past Saturday we started mixing in the new food, again. 3/4 cup of I/D and 1/4 of Fromm. We did this three times a day and his poop remained normal up until this morning. When I took him out this morning after he after, he pooped and it looked normal as can be aside from a few strains of grass. Having already peeped, I figured he was ready to go back in but figured I'd keep him out a little longer while my girlfriend got ready for work. As we were walking around, he made his way over the other side of the yard and let out this big pile of liquid poo. This was literally like 2 minutes after his first normal poop.

Could the sudden diarrhea just be from the transition to the new food and his digestive system getting use to it, or are we looking at something more serious here?

I haven't called the vet yet today. I figured I'd wait to see what his next poop looks like first.

What boggles me is that he went a week and a half before with a mixture of the new food before getting diarrhea. This time he went about 4-5 days. If the food was the cause of all this, would it take that look to show signs of diarrhea. I know dogs are a lot like people and I know when I eat something that doesn't agree with my stomach, the next day I'm showing signs of it. Or could it be that since I/D kibble is involved, it's binding him up some?

The whole diarrhea issue is going to give my girlfriend an aneurysm. She's so stressed over it since he's had diarrhea like every other week since we've had him, and feels something is wrong with JJ that the vets have failed to see or test for. He shows no signs of being sick though. He eats (can't get enough), drinks, plays, runs, jumps, bites, pulls your clothes, and acts like your normal Golden Retriever puppy.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

I would be inclined to think it's the food if JJ's stools firmed up after you removed the Fromm from his diet. If the Fromm isn't agreeing with him, I would reconsider your food choice. How old is JJ? My Flora had really bad colitis when she was a puppy, and only when I switched her onto Purina Pro Plan Sensitive formula for adults did her poos FINALLY firm up. Maybe you could switch him to an adult formula. Or try a food with no poultry in it. My vet said that chicken can sometimes cause some sensitivity in dogs. I figure duck might cause similar problems since they're both fowl, but I don't know for sure obviously.

As for the eyes... I'm sorry it's rearing its ugly head again.  I'm glad you've made an appt for him, I really hope you can set things right for good this time.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

JJ is 20 weeks.

Last week, his stool firmed up in a matter of about 8hrs after removing Fromm from his diet. I figure it's the food myself but then I thought, if he's allergic to chicken, why isn't he getting diarrhea when he's on the I/D kibble? The I/D kibble is loaded with chicken. I didn't know if maybe his stomach just needs to adapt to the new food and that maybe some diarrhea here and there was normal in the beginning, or if one case of diarrhea is enough to rule the food as not being good for him. Is it to soon to say the food is the cause, or should I continue with it for a few more days to see if he clears up before switching to something else?


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Ditch the Fromm, it could be the duck or the sweet potato, but obviously that particular food is not working for him. Sometimes the higher end foods are too rich for a inidividual dog, and there are anecdotal reports that some puppies don't do well on Fromm. 

Look for a food that has similar ingredients as the ID he is eating, for instance if the main ingredients are chicken and rice, try a chicken and rice variety of whatever brand you decide on.

(ps, I'm not saying Fromm is a bad food, it just isn't right for JJ).


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

I know a lot of people have adverse feelings to foods like Iams, Eukanuba and Purina Pro Plan, but I think a lot of times our dog's tummy troubles are due to the richness of some of the more "premium" foods. Could you try putting JJ on something like Eukanuba or Pro Plan (not the shredded blend) for now and see how he responds to that?


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

It might be worth mentioning that JJ got a load of bacon flavored treats last night. The Pet Botanics Bacon Treats to be exact. We went to our first training class night. I don't know if maybe this played a factor in the diarrhea. So that raises the question, should I continue with the I/D kibble and the Fromm and cut out the bacon treats for training and see how it goes, or just jump right to I/D kibble and drop the Fromm from his diet?


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

JDK said:


> It might be worth mentioning that JJ got a load of bacon flavored treats last night. The Pet Botanics Bacon Treats to be exact. We went to our first training class night. I don't know if maybe this played a factor in the diarrhea. So that raises the question, should I continue with the I/D kibble and the Fromm and cut out the bacon treats for training and see how it goes, or just jump right to I/D kibble and drop the Fromm from his diet?


But you said his diarrhea problems started on Nov. 1st, which means something else was bothering him. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

mylissyk said:


> Ditch the Fromm, it could the duck or the sweet potato, but obviously that particular food is not working for him. Sometimes the higher end foods are too rich for a inidividual dog, and there are anecdotal reports that some puppies don't do well on Fromm.
> 
> Look for a food that has similar ingredients as the ID he is eating, for instance if the main ingredients are chicken and rice, try a chicken and rice variety of whatever brand you decide on.
> 
> (ps, I'm not saying Fromm is a bad food, it just isn't right for JJ).


Is one episode of diarrhea enough to label the food no food for a particular dog? Could it not be that he ate something outside that didn't agree with him? Or is if that fact that since I mentioned he firmed up in a matter of hours after dropping the Fromm previously that makes you believe the food is the problem here? Just asking for my reference.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

kdmarsh said:


> But you said his diarrhea problems started on Nov. 1st, which means something else was bothering him. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...


Yes, it did start on November 1st, which was about a week and a half after being on a mixture of I/D kibble and Fromm Duck. This whole time though, he's we've been giving him those bacon treats while training at home. So i don't know if those are adding or causing the problems, or if it's the food.

Would it take a week and a half to show signs of the food not agreeing with the dogs stomach even if it's only minimal amounts of the food? Or should it be something I'm able to see within hours, if not a day or two? My GF seems to believe that since the I/D kibble is involved, it's not allowing the full effects of his diarrhea to be shown and that it's causing him to go back and forth from firm to soft stools every couple of days.


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## DaisyGolden (Jan 4, 2008)

Have you ever had him tested for allergies? That could be why his eyes are itchy and why he doesn't do well on some foods. My dog Jenny is allergic to grains and has to be feed a grain free dog food. If I feed her a food with grain in it she will do fine for about a week and then get a really bad bladder infection from it. Jenny eats Natural Balance limited ingredient diets dog food. I hope he gets better soon.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

JDK said:


> Yes, it did start on November 1st, which was about a week and a half after being on a mixture of I/D kibble and Fromm Duck. This whole time though, he's we've been giving him those bacon treats while training at home. So i don't know if those are adding or causing the problems, or if it's the food.
> 
> Would it take a week and a half to show signs of the food not agreeing with the dogs stomach even if it's only minimal amounts of the food? Or should it be something I'm able to see within hours, if not a day or two? My GF seems to believe that since the I/D kibble is involved, it's not allowing the full effects of his diarrhea to be shown and that it's causing him to go back and forth from firm to soft stools every couple of days.


Well... why not try putting him strictly on the I/D for a month or so, see how that goes, and then try to integrate the Fromm back into his diet. If he gets loose stools again, then I think you'd be better able to pinpoint the cause of his diarrhea as being Fromm. If he gets diarrhea while on the I/D, then you could start investigating other reasons for his colitis.

Are his stools mucousy?


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

JJ's never been tested for allergies. I've heard they're almost impossible to pinpoint. That's not to say, though, that I wouldn't be interested in having him tested. The last time the specialist said it was an ingrown eyelash, so we'll see what he says this time. My breeder said that they're not uncommon and should fall out over time.

Speaking about the eyes, his still seem droopy like a hounds. I can see his third eyelid. Could it be his eyelids are just droopy cause his head his growing and he needs to grow into them?

@kdmarsh - Do you suggest I drop the Fromm ASAP and go right to I/D, and not give him another day of it or another feeding? The reason I ask is cause he'll be eating lunch in about an hour. If he's got a parasite that's causing the diarrhea and I'm just feeding him I/D kibble, will he still eventually get diarrhea? The I/D isn't going to "hide" it per se, will it?


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Called the vet and managed to talk to one of the doctors on hand.

They said to drop the Fromm and to give JJ just the I/D kibble for now. They said once his stool firms up, to grab a sample and bring it in for testing. Can't remember the lettering, but the doctor said they would run some sort of stool that. A GR-something-or-other I believe....? Said it would be around $180 for the test and that's it's not 100% accurate, but that if there's a parasite or some sort of infection, this test will be the one to find it.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

JDK said:


> Called the vet and managed to talk to one of the doctors on hand.
> 
> They said to drop the Fromm and to give JJ just the I/D kibble for now. They said once his stool firms up, to grab a sample and bring it in for testing. Can't remember the lettering, but the doctor said they would run some sort of stool that. A GR-something-or-other I believe....? Said it would be around $180 for the test and that's it's not 100% accurate, but that if there's a parasite or some sort of infection, this test will be the one to find it.


I think that is a good decision. If they can more or less rule out parasites and JJ firms up while on I/D, then I think you could safely assume that it was the Fromm that was irritating his stomach. I know some parasites have a tendency to be reoccurring, so maybe this is a parasite.

Good luck with it! I betcha once he grows up a little he'll grow out of it. I think that's what happened with Flora. I do think the food change helped, but I also think growing up helped too.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

I have heard stories of puppies who get diarrhea on and off and suddenly just stop one day, usually around 6-7 months of age. I can only wish it's as simple as that with JJ.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

JDK said:


> Is one episode of diarrhea enough to label the food no food for a particular dog? Could it not be that he ate something outside that didn't agree with him? Or is if that fact that since I mentioned he firmed up in a matter of hours after dropping the Fromm previously that makes you believe the food is the problem here? Just asking for my reference.


I thought I read that the diarrhea returned more than once when you started adding Fromm back. 

I agree with your vet about cutting out any other food until he has firm stools. They will probably be testing for giardia.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Hi, sorry to hear the problems are resurfacing. I'm glad you are going to the ophthalmologist to recheck his eye issues--they shouldn't tear like that normally. Also, that was a good call to speak with a vet about the dietary issues. My dog couldn't handle Fromms Duck and Sweet Potato at all and we saw it almost from the day after we started transitioning him to it. We still aren't there yet on the "perfect" food for him, but we're working on it. My other guess is those training treats might also contribute to whatever is going on too. Ask the vet to suggest a treat you can use for now, while you are figuring things out--it's going to be hard because you want a highly desirable one for training. 

Since he's still a puppy I wonder if he's got some recurrent giardia or coccicidia. The test the vet is proposing will help with that diagnosis. 

Good luck and tell your GF to hang in there!


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## GoldenMum (Mar 15, 2010)

Just wanted to stop in and say what great dog parents you guys are. I hope his BMs firm up and his eyes clear up. Keep us posted.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

mylissyk said:


> I thought I read that the diarrhea returned more than once when you started adding Fromm back.
> 
> I agree with your vet about cutting out any other food until he has firm stools. They will probably be testing for giardia.


You're right. There's been two episodes with diarrhea and Fromm. The first one happened about 10-11 days after we started adding Fromm in and the second happened 3-4 days after. I wasn't sure though if the first episode was from the food since he had been on a mixture of Fromm and ID for more then a week before it started. Thought maybe he could of just gotten a hold of something outside that didn't agree with his smotach.

As the vet and others suggested, I gave him just ID kibble for lunch and dinner and will continue to do so for about 3 weeks or until the vet says otherwise. He pooped about 2 hours ago and while it wasn't exactly firm, it wasn't watery. It was formed and soft.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Food*

Glad he was at vet and seems to be doing better. 

Sounds like it could be the food.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Wouldn't you know it, the diarrhea returns :doh:

Took him out bright and early this morning and he pooped twice. The first one was semi-normal and just appeared to be a little soft, but was at least formed. 2 minutes later, he runs to the other side of the yard and lets out a pudding cup. Sorry to put it in those terms, but it's the best way I can explain it haha.

Now, the details...

JJ's been on Prescription ID (the kibble kind) for the past 3 weeks. Some of you may recall my previous post about how we started to switch him over to Fromm and how we had two cases of diarrhea. We've had him on the ID since then.

Since we were using bacon flavored treats for training, we decided to switch to salmon flavored, thinking maybe the bacon was adding to his diarrhea issues. We used the salmon treats one day and later that night he was on the verge of having diarrhea. So we decided to cut out all the treats, aside from the basic Milk-Bones, which we give him when he goes in his crate.

It's been a good two weeks since he's had any flavored treats and this whole time his stool has been back and forth. Sometimes it appears dark brown and looks firm as can be, other times it's light brown and really soft, to the point where you can't even pick it up. This morning was the first time in two weeks his stool looked like pudding.

We're convinced it's a parasite, so I bagged the first poop he took this morning - the semi-firm one - and brought it to the vet for testing. The vet is going to do a "major stool test". They told me what it was called but I can't remember now. Something with four letters I believe.

Aside from that, JJ appears healthy otherwise. He eats (can't get enough), drinks, and plays like a normally puppy his age.


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## Bentley's Mom (May 19, 2011)

How's JJ's eyes? I'm so sorry he's still having tummy issues. Have you tried canned pumpkin? (not pie filling just regular pumpkin)


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## SandyK (Mar 20, 2011)

So sorry to see you are having issues with JJ again. I hope you are able to find some answers soon.:crossfing


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm sure this is really frustrating and tiring for you and JJ. I have to believe it will get better, as his system matures and your new vet figures out what is wrong.

On all the foods you have tried with him, what has been the main meat ingredient? What has been the main grain ingredient? I'm just wondering if there might be a common ingredient in all the foods you've tried that might be culprit.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I'm sorry you're still having issues with JJ. Do be aware that coccidia and giardia, both notoriously difficult to treat, don't always show up in stool samples.

The main ingredient in Milk Bones is wheat, so perhaps you should cut out all treats. You can always use his kibble as treats instead. Also, when my Pug was having terrible issues, the vet suggested using the canned version and making doggie biscuits out of it


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Wow, what a rough journey of ups and downs you've had. ((((hugs)))

Have you tried cheese for his training treats. In people, it is said to be 'binding'. I suggest the 'real' cheese instead of the cheese products types.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Bentley's Mom said:


> How's JJ's eyes? I'm so sorry he's still having tummy issues. Have you tried canned pumpkin? (not pie filling just regular pumpkin)


His eye is doing better. Still not 100%, but better. Unfortunately, I don't think it's ever going to get 100% better and is probably something he'll have to deal with for the rest of his life.




mylissyk said:


> I'm sure this is really frustrating and tiring for you and JJ. I have to believe it will get better, as his system matures and your new vet figures out what is wrong.
> 
> On all the foods you have tried with him, what has been the main meat ingredient? What has been the main grain ingredient? I'm just wondering if there might be a common ingredient in all the foods you've tried that might be culprit.


I don't happen to have anymore of the food we've tried previously to refer to the ingredients. For the record though, we've tried Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy and Fromm Sweet Potato and Duck. 



Tahnee GR said:


> I'm sorry you're still having issues with JJ. Do be aware that coccidia and giardia, both notoriously difficult to treat, don't always show up in stool samples.
> 
> The main ingredient in Milk Bones is wheat, so perhaps you should cut out all treats. You can always use his kibble as treats instead. Also, when my Pug was having terrible issues, the vet suggested using the canned version and making doggie biscuits out of it


I'm assuming wheat can be a problem for some dogs? We do, occasionally, use his kibble as treats, but it's not really effective with training cause it's low-value and doesn't get him excited. Our first training session today I used kibble and he just wasn't into it. I couldn't even get him to "stand" for it. A few minutes later I broke up a Milk-Bone and he was raving and ready to go. Did everything I said the moment I said it and was ready for more.

I know that coccidia and giardia can both be hard to detect. But my question is, if JJ were to have one of these, does it make sense that he would only get diarrhea once every other week? The diarrhea only lasts a few hours before he's firm again. Would coccidia and giardia cause constant diarrhea? 



Penny's Mom said:


> Wow, what a rough journey of ups and downs you've had. ((((hugs)))
> 
> Have you tried cheese for his training treats. In people, it is said to be 'binding'. I suggest the 'real' cheese instead of the cheese products types.


I haven't tried cheese cause with his diarrhea, I wasn't sure if giving him a diary product was the smartest idea. Maybe I'll give it a try though cause I'm running out of options here. I need something that's of high value for training, or else he just doesn't care and doesn't want to respond.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Since JJ's hasn't been introduced to Blue Buffalo yet and his problems have nothing to do with that particular food, I figured I'd fire this thread back up.

JJ finished a week of Albon the other day and being on it really showed no noticeable differences. His poop was still inconsistent. Sometimes firm. Sometimes soft and mushy. Never liquidy, though. He continued to eat Prescription I/D kibble, and, to see if it made a difference, we cut out treats for the past 2 weeks. Removing treats from his diet has shown no differences in his stool yet. It still remains inconsistent.

I believe the vet wants to do a cobalamin test next.

There's one or two or 3 more tests/trials the vet wants to run after that, but basically everybody's coming up short on answers. Personally, i feel it's the food and that maybe it's an intolerance to something in the I/D. When we had him on the Fromm Duck and Sweet Potato the other month, he maintained firm stools for a week and a half before they started to get mushy, again. We jumped back to the I/D, started to introduce the Fromm a few days later and he went 4-5 days before his stools started getting mushy. My gut tells me it's something in the I/D.

Would it be wise to give him something like boiled hamburger and rice (since chicken is questionable) for a week or so until he firms out, and then slowly introduce the Blue Buffalo with the hamburger and rice and discount the I/D altogether?


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

JDK said:


> ...Personally, i feel it's the food and that maybe it's an intolerance to something in the I/D. When we had him on the Fromm Duck and Sweet Potato the other month, he maintained firm stools for a week and a half before they started to get mushy, again. We jumped back to the I/D, started to introduce the Fromm a few days later and he went 4-5 days before his stools started getting mushy. My gut tells me it's something in the I/D.
> 
> Would it be wise to give him something like boiled hamburger and rice (since chicken is questionable) for a week or so until he firms out, and then slowly introduce the Blue Buffalo with the hamburger and rice and discount the I/D altogether?


Your gut is probably right. Since the ID has chicken by product meal, corn and rice in it, I would try boiled hamburger and potato to cut out the corn, rice and chicken. See if that helps with his stool, and if it does look for a food that does not have any of those three ingredients to transition him to.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Mylissyk*

I agree with Mylissyk-try the hamburger.

Has JJ had a stool sample tested by the vet recently and have coccidia and giadia been ruled out?


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Karen519 said:


> I agree with Mylissyk-try the hamburger.
> 
> Has JJ had a stool sample tested by the vet recently and have coccidia and giadia been ruled out?


We're going to consider what Mylissyk suggested with the hamburger and potato, but regarding what you asked, yes, JJ has had a stool test recently and coccidia and giadia have been ruled out. That's not to say they aren't present though.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

One of my friends/clients had a dog with diarrhea that did not tolerate I/d. She did not tolerate any meat with rice, either. Figured out it was the rice. Was on z/d for a while, but now tolerates the "Howling/Barking at the Moon Diet". Not necessarily a food allergy, but definitely a food intolerance....


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Have you opened the bag of BB yet? I'm just very very wary about using BB on a dog that already has persistent intestinal problems. There are numerous threads about BB causing diarrhea in young dogs. That said, each dog is different. Perhaps JJ will be one of the dogs that does very well on BB. I just worry that it will only cause him more grief.

I hope it doesn't, and will be periodically checking this thread to see how things are working out for you guys.


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## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

i have a dog with issues very like yours and having tried many foods have finally settled on Taste of the wild, bison and venison flavor. Do you have that there..hopefully its easier to get there than here with it being canadian! You could probably use the fish one too, my dog is just so tired of everything fishy now as hes practically lived on it since a small pup so something meaty is now novel!


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

fyi, if you are going to try and avoid chicken the Taste of the Wild with bison and venison also has chicken meal in it.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

How's everybody doing. Hope you all had a happy and safe holiday. Sorry for the lack of updates over the past few weeks. It gets crazy around the holidays.

Anyway, I wanted to check in with an update on JJ. I have a few questions as well.

We're in the process of transitioning him off the I/D and on to Blue Buffalo Basic (Turkey and Potato). We're about half-way into it. I started the transition last week, on Tuesday to be exact. 

He gets 1-cup three times a day, so I began by giving him 3/4 ID and 1/4 BB for each feeding. I did that for a total of 5 days, until Saturday. I started adding in more BB at that point, giving him 2/3 I/D and 1/3 BB. I continued with that amount for 3 days and started giving him half-and-half this past Tuesday. Tonight I started giving him 2/3 BB and 1/3 I/D, which I'm going to continue until Saturday.

So far, his poop has looked good. This was one night where it looked like he was about to go soft, but by his next poop everything looked normal as can be. He hasn't had any issues this entire time and was pretty much firm for about 2-3 weeks before we started transitioning him onto the new food.

My question is, or questions rather are, at this point, is it safe to say that the food is a good fit for JJ, or am I going to have to wait until he's on nothing but BB before being able to determine that? 

Also, if he has a case of diarrhea one day or really soft stool, is it safe to assume that it's NOT the food since he's been eating it for almost 2 weeks now without any issues? Should I continue feeding him like I am if he gets soft stool and assume his stomach is just adjusting to the switch or that there's another issue such as a parasite, or should I instantly stop giving him BB and add it to the list of one of the foods he can't eat?


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## FinnTastic (Apr 20, 2009)

IDK, but I wanted to say that JJ is really cute and to bump your thread up. You may want to bump it up tomorrow as well if you don't get many responses tonight.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

JDK said:


> How's everybody doing. Hope you all had a happy and safe holiday. Sorry for the lack of updates over the past few weeks. It gets crazy around the holidays.
> 
> Anyway, I wanted to check in with an update on JJ. I have a few questions as well.
> 
> ...


I would not assume he is ok on the new food until he is on it exclusively for a couple of weeks without issue. 

If he has loose stool during the transition, back up to less of the new food for a few days then try again with just a little bit more and stay at that amount of mix for several days before adding more new to the mix. 

Continually switching foods will cause diarrhea too. You need to get him on the new food entirely, then give it a few weeks to see if he can tolerate it.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

I must of jinxed us by talking about it :doh:

JJ's a little soft. Formed, but soft. This morning I took him out first thing and he did his normal business. His stool looked fine that time. We came back in, watched TV for a bit and then had breakfast. I took him out about an hour later and his stool was soft.

I was giving 2/3 BB and 1/3 ID, so I guess I'll cut it back to half-and-half again.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Another update.

Instead of cutting him back to 1/2 BB and 1/2 ID, I decided to go 1/4 BB and 3/4 ID in an effort to "play it safe".

It obviously didn't help though. After eating lunch, he pooped again, and this time it was more mushy then it was this morning. Formed, but still really mushy. 

I'm not sure what to do at this point. Do I continue with 1/4 BB and 3/4 ID for his meals? I can't cut it down too much more then that without it being nothing but ID.


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