# Barley (and soon Sammy) AKC Agility Videos



## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Hi all! Had a fun weekend of agility at the Silver Bay Kennel Club Dog Show. The first video is of Barley on the second day where he got a double Q! we did not get video of him on day one. But he did have a great standard run, ending the weekend with 3/4 Qs.

I will post Sammy when it's done uploading. He ran great all weekend! He listened so well and was moving fast, unfortunatly we had some bad luck... Coming out of the chute to the dog walk his stride was off and missed the UP contact... Which I did not learn until after the run, I never paid attention to it before since he always makes it... And then the next day in his standard run we came out too early (to warm up) and I had treats and started breaking them into tiny tiny pieces to make them last longer... Well after the a-frame, he gagged... I am guessing it was on a tiny treat, but it could have been spit. It threw him off a little. Poor guy. It was nice to have the table next as it gave him a moment to recoop! Everything said and done, I was thrilled with him this weekend! Love my Sammy dog!

Here is Barley


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Very cool!! Looks like tons of fun


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Thanks! It was lots of fun, it's too bad you had to work this weekend!


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Here is Sammy!


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

Sooo cute! They look great!


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## Tailer'sFolks (Feb 27, 2007)

Oh Go Red Boys!! I just Love watching them Fly! But, they can be slow coming down the A-Frame n Tetter... 

How did Mira like the weekend? Does she listen as good as the boys?


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Thanks! I know, I think my new training project is going to be working on those contacts! Just not sure what I want to do yet  unfortunately though Barley will always have a turtle slow teeter, as he does to like the movement... But I can live with that! Sammy has a nice teeter...

Mira was good, she is still too young to compete, but she always comes to watch and enjoy the weekend. We work on some obedience while we are there with her too.


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## Volpe (Feb 1, 2009)

Wonderful job! You all did great. ^-^


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Fun! Congrats on the QQ!

With dogs that tall, it's easy to miss an up contact of they're "leaping". You can put those upside down U-things at the base of the up side - teach them to duck under them as they ascend the contact obstacles. It's also good for squaring up teeter approaches.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Fun! Congrats on the QQ!
> 
> With dogs that tall, it's easy to miss an up contact of they're "leaping". You can put those upside down U-things at the base of the up side - teach them to duck under them as they ascend the contact obstacles. It's also good for squaring up teeter approaches.


Thanks, that is a good idea, and we do have one of those where I take classes... But do you think it will transfer over to when it is not there? I sure wish I had a huge yard and contacts to train with on a daily basis!!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

After long enough, it will, b/c it becomes a habit. BUT, if you only train with it once a week and still show every weekend, then no -- that's not enough to replace the habit. 

As an alternative, can you call him to slow him down? I generally hate to use an "easy" cue, but maybe that would help.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

WOW! Very impressive TEAM videos there. I am sure you will figure out the contact issue. Very impressive how you are able to navigate the course in such a flowing manner as not to get in your dog's path. You all have a very bright future in agility ahead of you. ENJOY it always!!


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Great videos!! Congrats on the QQ!


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> After long enough, it will, b/c it becomes a habit. BUT, if you only train with it once a week and still show every weekend, then no -- that's not enough to replace the habit.
> 
> As an alternative, can you call him to slow him down? I generally hate to use an "easy" cue, but maybe that would help.


I can slow him down, more just by positioning but they know easy too. I think I will just have to pay more attention... And only use it if I feel I need to... I am hoping it was a one time thing... He has a tendancy to come out of the chute a little off balanced, so I think I need to be more aware of what comes next... Thanks for the ideas!

I am going to work on some ideas for picking up speed on the downside with Barley as well. The person I train with sent me some side by side footage with a weimaraner and there is a huge difference and I think Barley would respond well to something similar. She went quickly (rather than the same speed as the dog) to the end and turned into him as he came into the contact zone... Does that make sense?


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

AmbikaGR said:


> WOW! Very impressive TEAM videos there. I am sure you will figure out the contact issue. Very impressive how you are able to navigate the course in such a flowing manner as not to get in your dog's path. You all have a very bright future in agaility ahead of you. ENJOY it always!!


Thank you so much, I appreciate the compliment. We have been learning this game together as a team, and I am loving every minute of it! There is always something to work on, but I think its the fun of these activities.


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

Good job Jessica! You guys look great. Can't wait to see Mira too when she starts competing.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Trying to get the audio working again for Barley... Still not, but first video was deleted. You can see it here


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

sammydog said:


> I can slow him down, more just by positioning but they know easy too. I think I will just have to pay more attention... And only use it if I feel I need to... I am hoping it was a one time thing... He has a tendancy to come out of the chute a little off balanced, so I think I need to be more aware of what comes next... Thanks for the ideas!
> 
> I am going to work on some ideas for picking up speed on the downside with Barley as well. The person I train with sent me some side by side footage with a weimaraner and there is a huge difference and I think Barley would respond well to something similar. She went quickly (rather than the same speed as the dog) to the end and turned into him as he came into the contact zone... Does that make sense?


How did you teach contacts? 

If he's clicker savvy, what if you clicked the instant a front paw touched grass? 

Also, I can't swear to it, but I think the same dog who missed the up contact on the dog walk was just barely in the up zone on the a-frame. Like I said, it's really hard for the tall dogs if they take a frolicking leap onto the obstacle!


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

In the end I know the problem lies with me and my inconsistencies. Isn't that always the case!

With Sammy (one who missed the up contact, occasionally (maybe 2xs) misses a down contact, but has quicker contacts all around) he never had any good initial contact training. He was the first dog I have owned and trained, and I had no criteria for his performance. A few years ago I did get a small contact trainer and clicker trained a 2o2o contact, he can do great at home, but when we get on a course (not just in trials, but in classes too) his contacts are always iffy. With him I am okay with it being a management thing.

When I started with Barley he was trained with a target and 2o2o and release cue. He seems to have a better concept of what he is supposed to do, but sometimes starts to stop short anticipating a release. He has never missed a contact, but they are sometimes very slow as he gets into the contact area. It's not that bad as even with his slow contacts he is still usually picks up 8-10 MACH points in a standard run.

So now I am thinking I may try out some different training ideas for contacts... Plus I want to get a good system for Mira. What do you use for Quiz? Mira is smaller at 13 months is about 21.5" and 48 pounds. (Sammy and Barley are both 26+ and 75 pounds) Right now she is not doing full sized contacts, but has a very good nose target touch on small ones. This is was clicker trained, although now I just use a "yes" cue...


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## katieanddusty (Feb 9, 2006)

Yay! Good job Sammy and Barley! 



sammydog said:


> I am going to work on some ideas for picking up speed on the downside with Barley as well. The person I train with sent me some side by side footage with a weimaraner and there is a huge difference and I think Barley would respond well to something similar. She went quickly (rather than the same speed as the dog) to the end and turned into him as he came into the contact zone... Does that make sense?


It's tough when you're stuck with handler-dependent contacts ... do you know whether the weimaraner was Lori Barbee's Encore? (it was basically either Encore or someone from far away, because her other dog does 2o2o). I'm pretty sure he was originally trained 2o2o since he's not her first dog, so not sure how much the handling is even contributing. The running ahead and turning in works well for some dogs but you have to be able to get far enough ahead that the dog coming down sees you turned into him and not you racing him. If there's still a race going on when the dog starts down the down ramp, you're in trouble. 

With my Dusty, he's perfectly capable of running faster than me and if I start a race, he decides he wants to win. So I have to stay at his shoulder and do whatever to get him to hit the contact, it varies (usually varying degrees of turn into him, use the opposite hand, slow down, and babble at him). Or if I can get way ahead like with a tunnel or something, then I can think about getting completely in his way at the end and then he'll adjust his stride and end up with a nice running contact.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

katieanddusty said:


> Yay! Good job Sammy and Barley!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Katie! First off, thanks!

Yes it was Encore, I can send you to clip if you send me your email address. Very nice weims by the way!

I can see what you mean about the racing... 

At lunch I was just reading an old clean run about speeding up your 2o2o contacts, and I think I am going to get back to the target and fade it better.

What I want for teh dogwalk/teeter is a quick 2o2o but have the ability to release early... I know its not easy, but something to work towards...

Does anyone train a four on the floor contact? I am thinking it may be better for the a-frame? But not into a crouch or down like the BCs do...


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I used the 2/2 with Quiz and taught it with a nose-bump to a target on the ground. He's my first agility dog. In the beginning, it wasn't explained (or maybe not even taught - don't remember) that the idea purpose of the nose bump was to get the dog to shift his weight backward as they approach the target in order to prevent pile-driving.

Knowing that now, I will definitely change my criteria when I teach my next dog. Actually, I kinda like the 4-on-the-floor-down that some people do, and I can see how that would teach a dog to anticipate the down and shift weight rear-ward. Quiz is starting to pile-drive more than I really like to see (b/c of impact on shoulders). He'll also fly over the a-frame or teeter so fast and then get stuck doing some sort of acrobatic move to stick his 2/2. I'd much prefer he lower his center of gravity when decending the contact obstacles.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> I used the 2/2 with Quiz and taught it with a nose-bump to a target on the ground. He's my first agility dog. In the beginning, it wasn't explained (or maybe not even taught - don't remember) that the idea purpose of the nose bump was to get the dog to shift his weight backward as they approach the target in order to prevent pile-driving.


I was on the same boat!!! It would have been nice to know that whenI started as well! I always try to explain this for new people...



FlyingQuizini said:


> Knowing that now, I will definitely change my criteria when I teach my next dog. Actually, I kinda like the 4-on-the-floor-down that some people do, and I can see how that would teach a dog to anticipate the down and shift weight rear-ward. Quiz is starting to pile-drive more than I really like to see (b/c of impact on shoulders). He'll also fly over the a-frame or teeter so fast and then get stuck doing some sort of acrobatic move to stick his 2/2. I'd much prefer he lower his center of gravity when decending the contact obstacles.


I know what you mean... I am going to start researching the four on the floor method...


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Actually, I kinda like the 4-on-the-floor-down that some people do, and I can see how that would teach a dog to anticipate the down and shift weight rear-ward.


Ok, found this online... What do you think?
Four-on-the-Floor Contacts
Speed, Accuracy, Comfort, and Fun 
By Ann Croft
http://www.pawsonthewind.com/media/proof_11_12_FourOnTheFloora.pdf


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## katieanddusty (Feb 9, 2006)

I'm not a huge fan of four-on-the-floor, because the criteria doesn't really explicitly include hitting the contact the way 2o2o or some methods of running do. If you want a stop, I'd stick with 2o2o (just make sure the dog's weight is back so you don't end up with handstands on the A-frame). If you decide on the four-on-the-floor for your pup, I think there's a newer version of Ann's method, they were starting a series on it in Clean Run when my subscription died. I don't know how many improvements she's made, but it'd be worth asking someone who knows whether there's much difference. I think that without the crouch/down, it would be even less reliable because the dog would be more capable of meeting the criteria while still missing the contact.

Dusty was retrained 2-on 2-off and it just never worked out in trials. It depends on how long the dog has been competing, how much stress has been associated with the contacts in the past (love that first trainer of ours), etc. But definitely try going back to the target and really reinforcing the drive into 2o2o a lot. Also probably shouldn't mess with trying to quick release (even in trials) until the dog is really solid in 2o2o, otherwise if the dog isn't sure about what you're going to ask, you're probably not going to get much lasting improvement in speed.

If you're concerned about the A-frame, a running A-frame is really not all that hard to get for dogs of a certain size/stride. Yours might be a bit too tall, but it's worth a try. Boo is 22" tall, originally trained 2o2o but doesn't like to stop in trials, does it naturally and I just used some stride regulators to semi-solidify it (he only misses if he's really wound up going unusually fast). Dusty just has messed-up contacts and hasn't done much competing where I haven't been really micromanaging his contacts (because waiting around for novice and open preferred is really bad), but he can run it too (he's 23" tall).


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

katieanddusty said:


> I'm not a huge fan of four-on-the-floor, because the criteria doesn't really explicitly include hitting the contact the way 2o2o or some methods of running do. If you want a stop, I'd stick with 2o2o (just make sure the dog's weight is back so you don't end up with handstands on the A-frame). If you decide on the four-on-the-floor for your pup, I think there's a newer version of Ann's method, they were starting a series on it in Clean Run when my subscription died. I don't know how many improvements she's made, but it'd be worth asking someone who knows whether there's much difference. I think that without the crouch/down, it would be even less reliable because the dog would be more capable of meeting the criteria while still missing the contact.


Yes I remember seeing that series, I will go back and take a look at them. Thanks for the reminder. Also good insite on the 4-floor...



katieanddusty said:


> Dusty was retrained 2-on 2-off and it just never worked out in trials. It depends on how long the dog has been competing, how much stress has been associated with the contacts in the past (love that first trainer of ours), etc. But definitely try going back to the target and really reinforcing the drive into 2o2o a lot. Also probably shouldn't mess with trying to quick release (even in trials) until the dog is really solid in 2o2o, otherwise if the dog isn't sure about what you're going to ask, you're probably not going to get much lasting improvement in speed.
> 
> If you're concerned about the A-frame, a running A-frame is really not all that hard to get for dogs of a certain size/stride. Yours might be a bit too tall, but it's worth a try. Boo is 22" tall, originally trained 2o2o but doesn't like to stop in trials, does it naturally and I just used some stride regulators to semi-solidify it (he only misses if he's really wound up going unusually fast). Dusty just has messed-up contacts and hasn't done much competing where I haven't been really micromanaging his contacts (because waiting around for novice and open preferred is really bad), but he can run it too (he's 23" tall).


Sounds like I am going to stick with my original plan... So far on the low contacts Mira seems to be holding her weight back nicely.

Thanks for the thoughts! When are you going to be back home?


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## katieanddusty (Feb 9, 2006)

Rachel Sanders' box method on the A-frame also seems like it would be good (it's too new for there to be many older dogs out there trained with it, but it seems like it has the most clear criteria for running the contact).

I'm coming home at the end of next week, but there isn't any agility close enough that we can do  Still can't wait to see the dogs though.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

katieanddusty said:


> Rachel Sanders' box method on the A-frame also seems like it would be good (it's too new for there to be many older dogs out there trained with it, but it seems like it has the most clear criteria for running the contact).
> 
> I'm coming home at the end of next week, but there isn't any agility close enough that we can do  Still can't wait to see the dogs though.


Hmmm, I will have to look into that. Thanks!

Do you come home for summer? There are lots of trials this summer, at least in San Diego!


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## katieanddusty (Feb 9, 2006)

I think there were articles about it in Clean Run too, that also started right before my subscription died so I don't know how thorough they ended up being.

Yeah, I'm hoping to go abroad for a while but I will be home for most of the summer. There will probably be a lot of trials. I think Dusty's agility days are about finished (he was having trouble with feeling stiff in the evenings after our last set of trials), but Boo is probably getting bored.


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