# When is spanking ok?



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Spanking is a human behavior. I would never spank a dog. A firm leash correction is much better. Dogs understand this. If your dog isn't under voice control, he shouldn't be off leash anyway- so the leash should be readily available 

That said, I spank my dogs all the time in play... they think it's a reward


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

I would never think that hitting is a good way to train a dog...its far too easy to just reward the the positives than to need to hurt them. If my dog ran up to a jogger/cyclist and started to jump then I would think that giving them a spank would just make them a lot less likely to come back to you the next time...I have often FELT like I could blooming well tap them on the bum if they have been naughty but that is a human thing...I don't think it is very effective in the slightest, I dont think a dog links the behaviour and action like that...


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## Brinkleysmom (Dec 17, 2005)

I guess everyone is different. I have never had to ever hit Brinkley. My voice commands with her have worked very effectively. She very seldom gets in trouble and if she does, she knows my tone in my voice and she goes into her chair and sulks and gives me that pathetic look that I almost feel bad.
Now with Barney its a different story but I have never hit him with my hand or anything. BUT, I have swatted his behind a few times, not hard, with a newspaper. He gets the message very quickly. I have to be easy with him when he is here, because he was a very badly abused dog. So I do not want to be too hard on him. But like Brinkley, he is getting very used to voice tone. He is at a point where all I have to do is point to the other room when is bad and he goes there. He sulks. But he gets the message.
I am sure others will give you better advice; but this has always worked for me. I am just not big into hitting or spanking. But a good swat with the newspaper every once in a while doesnt hurt on their behind. But I would work more with voice commands so that he knows you mean business. Brinkley certainly knows if I am upset or angry with her big time.


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

wow....I think this is a long going debate. I think if you use consistency when training you will never need to spank. In my opinion spanking is more frustration on the owners part than correcting the dog. I know it is very frustrating when you are trying to train your dog something and it seems like they never listen but I think if you stick with it they will eventually get it. There were many times when I wanted to bang my head against the wall with Charlie, and when he sensed that, thats when he would misbehave the most.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I will add that I have sneaked up behind my dogs and popped them in the butt a couple of times come to think of it- both times where when various fosters had their heads in the litter box. That, to me, is unforgiveable... and if my only option for a sneak correction is a spank, so be it. Usually, I throw something loud as hard as a I can and wack the side of the litter box. That usually does it- they rarely go near it again, and they have no idea I am the one that threw the object


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## Rob's GRs (Feb 25, 2007)

I have found different ways to correct. 98% of the time it is verbal. In the few times I have to use any touch method it was either using a finger or hitting myself. 
What I mean my this is I have tapped Lyndi on her nose with my finger while saying "no" on a rare occassion she goes after Laim and his food. Just this little extra is all it has taken to prevent her in these extreme conditions and preventing a dog fight. 
With Liam he will occassionly really lay into Lyndi with wrestling and he will not stop no matter what I say, and how much Lyndi is crying. In these cases I have a rolled up newspaper I use to hold up in the air, or hit my own leg. Either method makes him stop. He never gets hit.


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

I don't hit my dog, but I do make contact with him. If he's doing something I don't want him to do, I give him a tap on the chest along with a loud "EGH!" noise..*hard to describe* It gets his attention without having to beat his butt :


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## WarGamer (Mar 3, 2007)

I understand that spanking is a human behaviour and that a quick leash jerk is very effective, buy the dog lives with humans.
I've never had to spank him more than once for the same bad behaviour and have found that I have to use the leash jerk over and over again for the same bad behaviour.
I always use my hand and only smack him on the fleshy part of the hind cheek.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

If it works the first time and you never have to do it again, and you're not hurting him, then I suppose it's not doing any harm- but be very sure you're not hurting him, not damaging his relationship with you, etc. Usually it's a distraction technique. Try clapping your hands together VERY loudly instead, or shaking a penny can, too.


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## kalkid (Feb 22, 2007)

I agree with the comment about owner frustration. I've spanked Daisy once and way to hard. I had a bad day at work and came home to my as usual loving dog. I made a salad and just as I was ready to eat it the phone rang so I grabbed it. Of course leaving the salad on the coffee table at perfect dog level. Mind you we only had her about 4 weeks up to this point so she was still very much learning our rules. Well you guessed it as I came out of the other room I saw her chomping away at the salad and she was so into it she didn't notice me. I smacked her on the ass and not gently to say the least. She yelped and went booking for her bed ( her safe zone ). I felt like a complete d#$%head for the next hours and still feel bad about it all though she's long over it and has "forgiven" me. In hindsight I'm sure I could have just yelled No! and accomplished the same thing. Now we've trained her where she won't eat anything without permission. That may sound hard to believe but it's true. We could set a steak on the table and leave for 5 minutes and it would be there when we got back. There again the training will get you where you want you and your dog to be.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

*I havent and never will hit* my dogs...... They do get leash corrections if need be...........


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

What if your dog is doing something bad when they're not on a leash....

I usually just make some sort of loud noise or try to scare him away and make crazy noises and fling my arms in the air like a crazy person and he usually runs away... haha.


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

GoldenLover84 said:


> What if your dog is doing something bad when they're not on a leash....
> 
> I usually just make some sort of loud noise or try to scare him away and make crazy noises and fling my arms in the air like a crazy person and he usually runs away... haha.


That's what I do...make a loud noise. One time I was coming down the steps and saw Charlie chewing the carpet. I jumped on the last step, lost my balance and fell right on my butt...needless to say that was a very LOUD noise and it worked...he went running for the hills...LOL


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

hahah yeah one time I was trying to get Tucker in his kennel (which he usually does when I tell him to) but this time he wouldn't. He kept running around like a lunatic around the coffee table, I finally get fet up and slammed my hand down on the table as loud as I could and yelled "YOU GET IN YOUR KENNEL RIGHT NOW!!" he went running in there so quickly...haha. It hurt my hand though...  haha.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I have a certain word and ton... HEY!!!!!!!!! Said in a certain growly loud way... that works. Even dogs that aren't my dogs at the dog park stop fighting if I make this noise, which I do out of habit if I see any dog fight in the making or other major "sin" occuring. I only use it when I mean business, and it stops all my dogs dead in the tracks.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

There is never any reason to hit a dog. Period. It teaching nothing other than to fear you and the human hand.

That said, poking the dog in the butt or tapping on the nose as more of a method to distract the dog and interrupt an unwanted behavior is a different technique entirely and is best practiced by following up with the "right" thing for the dog to do, i.e., ...poke...poke..."eh eh" (startles dog) -- "good boy, get your bone" or "sit" or whatever. 

Please don't hit your dog.

-Stephanie

-Stephanie


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Hitting a dog in my opinion is never acceptable. I once saw a guy pummel his dog with his fists after his dog got loose and he recovered him. All I kept thinking is - do you really think this dog is going to WANT to come back to you when he gets out again when his "reward" is a series of blows?? It made me sick. I don't believe in hitting anything that cannot hit me back.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> I have a certain word and ton... HEY!!!!!!!!! Said in a certain growly loud way... that works. Even dogs that aren't my dogs at the dog park stop fighting if I make this noise, which I do out of habit if I see any dog fight in the making or other major "sin" occuring. I only use it when I mean business, and it stops all my dogs dead in the tracks.


That's so funny - HEY is my word too - I just happen to yell that whenever things in my pack get crazy...and it works!! Personally I think I sound like an idiot when I say it all shrilly and loud...but my dogs tune into it, so I go with it!


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## Carsonsdaddy (Nov 1, 2006)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> That's so funny - HEY is my word too - I just happen to yell that whenever things in my pack get crazy...and it works!! Personally I think I sound like an idiot when I say it all shrilly and loud...but my dogs tune into it, so I go with it!


That's my "word" too!  As soon as I say it "in *that* voice" Carson knows I mean business. On the odd time when he doesn't listen I usually grab the back of his neck, and tell him to stop it, or I will have him sit, look at me, and then I'll grab his muzzle and tell him to stop. It's pretty effective. 

A story about hitting. We used to spank our last dog, Charlie (lab mix), on the nose, to get him to stop biting... After a few days of this he would cringe when we tried to pet him.  We stopped doing that RIGHT AWAY!! About a week later he stopped cringing. WHEW!!


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## WarGamer (Mar 3, 2007)

So, you think that your dog is going to fear you and won't come to you if you spank them?
Buddy rarely makes the same mistake twice for something that he's been spanked for.
I'm not suggesting that you beat your dog, but I believe that corporal punishment administered by a loving parent can get positive results without tramatising the animal.
I never feel good about using, but I believe that in some instances it's better than the alternatives.

For those of you who are dead set against this method.
Do you fear your parents?


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

When I saw that Jeremy had responded to this, I just had to see what we being said LOL


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## Carsonsdaddy (Nov 1, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> When I saw that Jeremy had responded to this, I just had to see what we being said LOL


I guess the idea of me responding "seriously" never occured to you huh?  


...not that I blame you. I *did* think of some "naughty" responses...


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Well my parents spanked me once that I recall, and I deserved it. I never got caught doing that again


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## Selena (Dec 26, 2006)

I do not hit at any time. I don't believe in spanking my children and all my pups are included in the same rules. If they are not on a leash than I clap my hands and follow with a loud command. They respond immediately to that. If not I repeat myself just like I would have to with the rest of our family. I believe hitting/spanking is just to harsh. It will not really them anything other than fear. I would be heart broken if they ever feared me...:no:


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## Carsonsdaddy (Nov 1, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Well my parents spanked me once that I recall, and I deserved it. I never got caught doing that again


My wife spanked me once....it was nice. :  


....I told you ACC!


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

Carsonsdaddy said:


> My wife spanked my once....it was nice. :
> 
> 
> ....I told you ACC!


haha. I think that is a whole other forum....I can give you the name of the site...
JUST KIDDING......


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## Brinkleysmom (Dec 17, 2005)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> Hitting a dog in my opinion is never acceptable. I once saw a guy pummel his dog with his fists after his dog got loose and he recovered him. All I kept thinking is - do you really think this dog is going to WANT to come back to you when he gets out again when his "reward" is a series of blows?? It made me sick. I don't believe in hitting anything that cannot hit me back.


I agree with you completely Lisa. I also wonder about those people who think that rubbing a dog's nose in their pee and poop is standard procedure as well. NO I AM NOT SAYING ANYONE ON THE FORUM DOES THAT. But that is such an old wive's tale. Puppies are like babies. Do we rub babies noses in their dirty diapers?? Of course not. But dogs do very well to verbal commands. Just have to practice practice practice. If Barney can be trained, I am a firm believer that any dog is trainable, especially with all that he has gone through. Its a work in progress but he is progressing.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Carsonsdaddy said:


> My wife spanked my once....it was nice. :
> 
> 
> ....I told you ACC!



Spanked my once? lol  :uhoh: 

I knew you'd give in eventually  hehe


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## Carsonsdaddy (Nov 1, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Spanked my once? lol  :uhoh:
> 
> I knew you'd give in eventually  hehe


You can count on me...  

Sorry typo...I fixed it...although I could fix it another way too... " Spanked my "blank" once..." 


...maybe a little over the line????   :lol:


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

LOL!!!! Some people...  Can't take them anywhere 

Back on topic... I would never rub my dog's face in his pee or poo... yuck!


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

Charlie06 said:


> haha. I think that is a whole other forum....I can give you the name of the site...
> JUST KIDDING......


I had to add the JUST KIDDING part, because I was scared he was going to actually ask for the site.....lol...and I'll never admit to knowing that one....tehehe


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## WarGamer (Mar 3, 2007)

My dog does not fear me, but he thinks twice about disobeying a stop command.


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## Carsonsdaddy (Nov 1, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> LOL!!!! Some people...  Can't take them anywhere
> 
> Back on topic... I would never rub my dog's face in his pee or poo... yuck!


I agree... That's disgusting. :yuck:


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

WarGamer said:


> So, you think that your dog is going to fear you and won't come to you if you spank them?
> Buddy rarely makes the same mistake twice for something that he's been spanked for.
> I'm not suggesting that you beat your dog, but I believe that corporal punishment administered by a loving parent can get positive results without tramatising the animal.
> I never feel good about using, but I believe that in some instances it's better than the alternatives.
> ...


Where does fear come into dog training? If you didn't feel good about hitting your dog, it is likely your conscience telling you it's not the best choice. 

Just out of curiosity, and not at all meant to be interpreted as a slight...how many dogs have you owned that you have been responsible for training yourself? I ask only because my first dog was raised and trained very differently than my current dogs.


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## Brinkleysmom (Dec 17, 2005)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> Where does fear come into dog training? If you didn't feel good about hitting your dog, it is likely your conscience telling you it's not the best choice.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, and not at all meant to be interpreted as a slight...how many dogs have you owned that you have been responsible for training yourself? I ask only because my first dog was raised and trained very differently than my current dogs.


LOL!!! Yes Lisa and we all know now that Her Majesty Ruthie is training everyone else, isnt that true?? LOL!!! I am sorry. I just had to add that. I love Ruthie:


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## WarGamer (Mar 3, 2007)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> Where does fear come into dog training? If you didn't feel good about hitting your dog, it is likely your conscience telling you it's not the best choice.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, and not at all meant to be interpreted as a slight...how many dogs have you owned that you have been responsible for training yourself? I ask only because my first dog was raised and trained very differently than my current dogs.


I'm out of here.
If you can't respond to my query without your condescending attitude. I'll ask my questions regarding discipline elsewhere.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I don't think anyone's being condescending- this is a charged topic. You have gotten many open minded replies, and an interesting discussion has developed. Isn't that the point?


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## Brinkleysmom (Dec 17, 2005)

WarGamer said:


> I'm out of here.
> If you can't respond to my query without your condescending attitude. I'll ask my questions regarding discipline elsewhere.


I have known Lisa through the forums for over a year and I have never seen her be condescending to anyone and I know that she would not mean for that to come across that way. As Aqua said, this has been a very good open discussion with very cool heads. So do not take it personal by any means. She would never do that. I have read many of her posts over the years and she is not like that at all. So come back to the discussion.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

From Webster's...
SPANK- to strike with the open hand especially on the buttocks, as in punishment.

I believe punishment is required to reduce the likelihood of certain unwanted behaviors... and no amount of rewards or treats will work satisfactorily. However, what is required for proper effect on one dog may well be different for another dog and so this question, I don't believe, can be answered except in very generalize ways because it isn't a question of "do" or "don't" but rather one of degree... which is going to be different for each dog.

But I will say, Carsonsdaddy is correct that it should never be near the face... even if its just using one finger. You can throw a 'mock' punch at Sidney's face and he will not even flinch... he may try to 'catch' your fist though. To Sidney, hands near his face only ever bring feelings of good things... you know, I think that's the way it should be.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

WarGamer said:


> I'm out of here...


Please don't do this to yourself... its a sign of frustration, kinda like why we sometimes resort to spanking when there probably was another way to get the message across. If you just stick around and try to respond in an open and honest manner, that opens the possibility that we might all learn something here... shut the door now and that makes it a certainty any understanding can never happen.


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## WarGamer (Mar 3, 2007)

If you can't see the condescention in Lisa's last comments to me, then I'm wasting my time here.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Brinkleysmom said:


> LOL!!! Yes Lisa and we all know now that Her Majesty Ruthie is training everyone else, isnt that true?? LOL!!! I am sorry. I just had to add that. I love Ruthie:


Oh please...Her Maj has turned my world upside down, inside out and made it all about HER! I wouldn't have it any other way! If you could have seen me trying to "correct" her when she would growl and lunge at my other dogs...it was like correcting my grandmother!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

So even if one person has ticked you off... ???? There's what, 600 others?  I don't think she was being rude either... you want rude, go read some of my posts in other threads LOL

We're all passionate. That's a GOOD thing!


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## WarGamer (Mar 3, 2007)

How many dogs have you owned?
5?

I've owned 55, so I'm 11 times more knowledgeable about dogs than you are.
Mind you, none of them lived more than 6 months, but I know more than you.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Um, who is that directed at? Keira may only be four months old, but Starlite's almost one and Rigby's ten


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## WarGamer (Mar 3, 2007)

When you ask me how many dogs that I've owned and assume that my methods are wrong because you may have owned more dogs than me, just pisses me off.
I'm interested in intelligent responses and when I get responses like that. All I want to do is scream at you at the top of my lungs and tell you to *STOP!!*

I've known people who have owned dogs all their lives and still don't anything about what makes them tick.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

WarGamer said:


> I'm out of here.
> If you can't respond to my query without your condescending attitude. I'll ask my questions regarding discipline elsewhere.


 
WG, I am sorry you feel that way...I really wasn't trying to be condescending.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I didn't ask how many dogs you have owned.

I simply shared my experience. I have owned, or more accurately fostered/lived with a TON of dogs of many different breeds. Certainly I have learned things from every single one of them, though I don't think I mentioned this in this thread. I believe I mentioned it in the thread on food.

I, too, know people who don't know anything about dogs and have 10 of them.

Dogs do what works- if the punishment is unpleasant enough to make the reward of doing the undesireable (to you) behavior no longer worth doing to the dog, the dog will stop doing it. Viola!

Same applies if the reward for doing an alternative behavior is strong enough to make the original undesireable behavior no longer worth doing because YOUR alternative and reward is SO fantastic it overshadows it.

You can use either train of thought- I use both.

I don't care of it's your first dog or your 100th- their brains are still canine.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

WarGamer said:


> When you ask me how many dogs that I've owned and assume that my methods are wrong because you may have owned more dogs than me, just pisses me off.
> I'm interested in intelligent responses and when I get responses like that. All I want to do is scream at you at the top of my lungs and tell you to *STOP!!*
> 
> I've known people who have owned dogs all their lives and still don't anything about what makes them tick.


There is no need to escalate so quickly to anger here. Everyone here is just trying to be helpful. You posed a question which you had to know would elicit a variety of responses. 

I was not saying anything about owning more dogs than you - I was just asking the question because of my own experiences...I told you in the post I wasn't trying to slight you.


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## WarGamer (Mar 3, 2007)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> WG, I am sorry you feel that way...I really wasn't trying to be condescending.


Maybe not, but you were.
I don't waste time with people who don't think about what they have to say before saying it.

I had someone ask me the same question after I yanked her friend's chocolate lab off my 4 month old pup at the off leash park The lab had my dog by the throat and on his back and yelping.
The owner freaked out about me grabbing her dog.
I warned her if it happened again and if she couldn't stop her dog within a reasonable amount of, that I would put the boots and she would be taking it home in a pine box.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

WarGamer said:


> When you ask me how many dogs that I've owned and assume that my methods are wrong because you may have owned more dogs than me, just pisses me off.
> I'm interested in intelligent responses and when I get responses like that. All I want to do is scream at you at the top of my lungs and tell you to *STOP!!*
> 
> I've known people who have owned dogs all their lives and still don't anything about what makes them tick.


I thought her point was training dogs now is VERY different from the way dogs were trained years ago. 

"I've owned 55, so I'm 11 times more knowledgeable about dogs than you are. Mind you, none of them lived more than 6 months..."

Why did none of them live more than 6 months?


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> Where does fear come into dog training? If you didn't feel good about hitting your dog, it is likely your conscience telling you it's not the best choice.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, and not at all meant to be interpreted as a slight...how many dogs have you owned that you have been responsible for training yourself? I ask only because my first dog was raised and trained very differently than my current dogs.


That's so true, when we went to training with Robbie after we adopted him in 2005, I was so clueless because the training I had done with my childhood dogs was completely different from the methods I was learning now.


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## WarGamer (Mar 3, 2007)

One of the first things that I did when I got Buddy was to buy Golden Retrievers for Dummies.
It recommends positive reinforcement for good behaviour and spanking as a last resort.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

One of our dogs were use to own , was hit when younger(not by us), he wasnt afraid of us or us going towards his face or body , but if my son and his friends were goofing around hitting each other ... this dog would jump up and grab the persons arm growling...... I have to agree with the others..I didnt take Lisa's comment as be condescending, but if your going to ask questions that can turn into a debate, etc, dont ask them because there is going to be plenty of times you read things your dont want.......... As for my parents hitting us, NEVER EVER HAPPEN and I have never hit my kids or dogs... Just dont believe in it


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

I also did not see Lisa's post as condescending in the slightest, I thought you were getting some very calm and helpful responses on a controversial subject.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

WarGamer said:


> Maybe not, but you were.
> I don't waste time with people who don't think about what they have to say before saying it.
> 
> I had someone ask me the same question after I yanked her friend's chocolate lab off my 4 month old pup at the off leash park The lab had my dog by the throat and on his back and yelping.
> ...


I thought about my response before I posted it - now who is being condescending? 

As for the rest of your post here...well it says a lot. It strikes me that perhaps you want people to just agree with you - and when they don't you escalate quickly to anger and perhaps even violence (as suggested in your post). I am not cool with that at all... This is a forum where we discuss and debate all sorts of things. If you are going to get up in arms and lash out anytime someone questions you or disagrees, you probably aren't going to be happy on a public forum.


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## Brittany (Jul 24, 2006)

Interesting topic......while beating a dog is obviously wrong, I am not opposed to giving a dog a good swat if he's ignoring all other correction. For instance, I have a VERY strong-willed pup who likes to completely ignore me. If she's doing something wrong, and I say "NO!" , she goes right back and does it, because she realizes that nothing happened to her. However, if I go over and pop her on the butt with a firm hand, she realizes that I mean business, and she has to stop NOW. She doesn't fear me, but she respects me then. 
Obviously this is different for every dog.....Take Mac for example. A firm "NO!" does the trick very effectively. 
So, no, I personally don't have a problem with it, if it is done with discretion and not out of anger.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Very well said Lisa........


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## WarGamer (Mar 3, 2007)

I may be new here, but I'm an old pro at chat boards.
I've been using them since they were called BBSs.
Dating back to the early 80s.
I know condescending when I see it.
I'm sorry that Lisa doesn't know when she's being condescending.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

mylissyk said:


> That's so true, when we went to training with Robbie after we adopted him in 2005, I was so clueless because the training I had done with my childhood dogs was completely different from the methods I was learning now.


 
That's what I was thinking as well. I was actually thinking about myself as a dog owner and my parents - who I have seen first hand evolve over the years too. Dogs have been very misunderstood at times. Many people interpret their behaviors as they would human children's. We tend to project human emotions and intentions onto dogs which can often end up causing a great deal of confusion for the poor dogs. They don't think like us, and it breaks my heart when they are punished becasue someone assumes they do.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Lisa.... Looks like this is just going to keep being debated...There mind is made up... Wouldnt bother wasting your time anymore.....


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Maggies mom said:


> Lisa.... Looks like this is just going to keep being debated...There mind is made up... Wouldnt bother wasting your time anymore.....


 
I couldn't agree more. Sometimes there are people who just like to argue for the sake of arguing...when it begins to feel like recess in the 5th grade, it's time to move on. Oh and just for clarity's sake...THAT is condescending.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

WarGamer said:


> For those of you who are dead set against this method.
> Do you fear your parents?


There's a difference between a spanking and a parent who just likes to hit. Live with one of those, and yes, you will fear them.

I suppose if you time your "spanking" with the exact second that the dog is doing what you don't want, at least your administering the punishment at the right time. However, you're still teaching the dog to obey or fear physical pain. That's very damaging to the relationship and is NOT how I want to live with my dogs. Plus, many people screw it up and out of frustration, hit their dogs after the fact, which teaches nothing other than to fear the owner b/c they are prone to sudden displays of unexplainable (in the dog's mind) aggression. Much like the child who lives with a parent who is abusive. 

-Stephanie


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## pb1221 (Nov 21, 2006)

I just gotta jump in.....these are kinds of posts that really frustrate me when I read thru them. This person seems to have alot of anger and seems to want to pick a fight....what a waste of forum members time. There is alot of good advice given on this board. I don't agree with what everyone says all the time but it sure is interesting to hear different points of view. 

by the way, I would never, ever, ever, ever, ever, hit my dogs. ever.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Charlie06 said:


> That's what I do...make a loud noise. One time I was coming down the steps and saw Charlie chewing the carpet. I jumped on the last step, lost my balance and fell right on my butt...needless to say that was a very LOUD noise and it worked...he went running for the hills...LOL


I'm sorry, I sure hope you were okay, but I just got very silly. I've been reading this thread for awhile now and just can't think of anything intelligent to say. However, your technique, although a bit dangerous for you, has worked for me, too. :uhoh: 

Now on the topic of spanking; I'm not comfortable with the method. I'm also not comfortable with a number of training methods, like ear pinches etc. That doesn't make me right or those that use them wrong. They're just not for me...........


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> Hitting a dog in my opinion is never acceptable. I once saw a guy pummel his dog with his fists after his dog got loose and he recovered him. All I kept thinking is - do you really think this dog is going to WANT to come back to you when he gets out again when his "reward" is a series of blows?? It made me sick. I don't believe in hitting anything that cannot hit me back.


Oh my gosh, I can't even imagine watching a man do that, or anyone do that to their dog. What an idiot.

It makes me sad to imagine any dog getting treated like that.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

WarGamer said:


> Maybe not, but you were.
> I don't waste time with people who don't think about what they have to say before saying it.
> 
> I had someone ask me the same question after I yanked her friend's chocolate lab off my 4 month old pup at the off leash park The lab had my dog by the throat and on his back and yelping.
> ...


I have to tell you, I know Lisa personally, and you couldn't find a nicer more helpful person that gives sound advice. I don't even have to go back and read the post, I know she couldn't have been condescending, it must just have been the way you interpreted it.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

WarGamer said:


> So, you think that your dog is going to fear you and won't come to you if you spank them?
> Buddy rarely makes the same mistake twice for something that he's been spanked for.


He's avoiding those "mistakes" out of fear of being corrected vs. wanting to choose the *right* behaviors b/c he knows and understands that doing the right thing and pleasing you is actually beneficial to him.

It's just a different way of training and living with dogs. Ten years or so ago, it was the ONLY way of training and living with dogs. I personally, and very happy to see a shift toward more positive (and in my opinion) humane methods.

Yes, hitting a dog *can* make him fear you and can create a dog that is reluctant to come to you in situations where he has previously been hit. It can also make a dog hand shy. The worst example is for coming when called -- someone who punishes the dog when he *finally* comes to the owner. The owenr rationalizes that the punishment is b/c the dog took too long to come. In the dog's mind, he equates the punishment with the fact that he came at all. 

Oddly enough, studies show that dogs that are repeatedly hit - such that it's now become abuse - actually become desensitized to it and it has little affect. 

-Stephanie


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## Carsonsdaddy (Nov 1, 2006)

FlyingQuizini said:


> There's a difference between a spanking and a parent who just likes to hit. Live with one of those, and yes, you will fear them.


Thank you! My parent's spanked me and I don't fear or hate them. It's very annoying to me to think that there are people out there who equate spanking with child abuse. It's not the same thing! I can speak from experience when I say that my parents hated spanking me, but they did it (this hurts me more than it does you). I will spank my children(when I have them), but I *will not* abuse them! 

That being said... I agree that dogs and children are very similar... *but* they are different when it comes to punishment, among other things. You can't treat a dog like you would a child, or vice versa...it won't work.


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

Kimm said:


> I'm sorry, I sure hope you were okay, but I just got very silly. I've been reading this thread for awhile now and just can't think of anything intelligent to say. However, your technique, although a bit dangerous for you, has worked for me, too. :uhoh:
> 
> Now on the topic of spanking; I'm not comfortable with the method. I'm also not comfortable with a number of training methods, like ear pinches etc. That doesn't make me right or those that use them wrong. They're just not for me...........


LOL...I was OK, only my pathetic pride was hurt. Luckily the only ones that saw me were the 3 dogs. If hubby & kids were around I think someone would have peed their pants from laughter.


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## Carsonsdaddy (Nov 1, 2006)

Charlie06 said:


> LOL...I was OK, only my pathetic pride was hurt. Luckily the only ones that saw me were the 3 dogs. If hubby & kids were around I think someone would have peed their pants from laughter.


I know I would have.... :uhoh:


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

Carsonsdaddy said:


> I know I would have.... :uhoh:


Watch it there buddy...I could open up that container of peanut butter again...


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## Carsonsdaddy (Nov 1, 2006)

Charlie06 said:


> Watch it there buddy...I could open up that container of peanut butter again...


Oh..wait...I mean...I wouldn't laugh at all....that's not even close to funny.... :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh: :


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

Carsonsdaddy said:


> Oh..wait...I mean...I wouldn't laugh at all....that's not even close to funny.... :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh: :


haha...I thought you'd see it my way....


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Charlie06 said:


> LOL...I was OK, only my pathetic pride was hurt. Luckily the only ones that saw me were the 3 dogs. If hubby & kids were around I think someone would have peed their pants from laughter.


Someday I will share a few of my falling stories. Each one of them have brought about laughter (mine) that nearly made me pee my own pants!


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

I do not ever hit my dogs. Ever, period. I have taken Sampson from a largely uncontrollable high spirited rescue to a house dog with manners. All without ever hitting him. I have never been to a professional trainer nor do I follow any of the trainers on TV. I just reinforce positive behavior, use encouragement, praise. And time and patience.......lots and lots of both.

I do not want my dogs to fear me, I want them to respect me. There is a big difference. I do not see any reason to strike a dog in punishment. There are better ways to teach them.


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## WarGamer (Mar 3, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> He's avoiding those "mistakes" out of fear of being corrected vs. wanting to choose the *right* behaviors b/c he knows and understands that doing the right thing and pleasing you is actually beneficial to him.


Do you think that dogs are intelligent enough to know the difference?
I respect their intelligence, but I don't think that they are that smart.
I prefer to use the reward system.
Dog's are instinctive and if we want them to do things that go against their instincts we must use methods from outside the box.
I've seen how some people jerk their dogs to get them to do as their told.
I'm sorry, but my spank on the bum is less harmfull than that and it gets the message accross.


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## MarleyLove (Sep 2, 2006)

WarGamer said:


> I may be new here, but I'm an old pro at chat boards.
> I've been using them since they were called BBSs.
> Dating back to the early 80s.
> I know condescending when I see it.
> I'm sorry that Lisa doesn't know when she's being condescending.


Could you please be an adult and move on? She has apologized if she seemed condescending, and many have made the point that she wasn't really being condescending. You asked a highly inflammatory question and got very level-headed, mature responses. (As is typical of this board, because it's awesome!) Most people here only care to educate and be great owners to their dogs. I am of the opinion that you were probably looking for a fight and, when you didn't get one, you picked one with Lisa. If you truly want to debate this issue, then let's debate it.

Although I can try to respect other's opinions on this, I can't condone or accept as right the hitting of any animal. I don't think inflicting pain or being violent toward an animal teaches it anything, except fear. To me, the very idea of it is repulsive. I don't spank my child either, it has always struck me as strange that children and animals are the only members of the population it's "ok" to hit. I could never walk up to another adult and hit them (and it be ok) for bad behavior. Just my opinion.....


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## MarleyLove (Sep 2, 2006)

Why do none of your dogs live past 6 months?


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## WarGamer (Mar 3, 2007)

MarleyLove said:


> Could you please be an adult and move on? She has apologized if she seemed condescending, and many have made the point that she wasn't really being condescending. .


She did not apologize for appearing to be condescending.
She apologized for me interpreting her comments as being condescending.

I didn't come here looking for fight.
I had a simple question, that comes with complicated answers.


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## Carsonsdaddy (Nov 1, 2006)

I am closing this thread at the request of several members. The subject has been discussed and now it's just going over the same things over...and over.


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