# Unexpected: Lilly had to go home from day care....



## turtle66 (Feb 19, 2010)

I got a call today - about 20 minutes after her got to day care - to get her back, because she did not behave well. 
She attacked one dog after she went to the facility right away...no sniffing...no nothing...right after she got to the group she attacked him...(no harm done, though). She got an out time and went to a different group, where she right away attacked a different male dog..no sniffing, no obvious 'odd' behavior from the other dog....Lilly got right into it. (One dog was small, the other big...they were both male but that was it in terms of similarities).

Anyway...I changed all the afternoon plans and I got her back....the sweetest girl, like nothing happened, happy as can be....

But I wonder - is this the end of day care. She does really well with her day hiking (in a known group of 6-8 different dogs)....She knew the day care facility since she was 6 months and well, she had one more issues (a thread more than a year ago) but that was it. She is barely at the day care facility (about once every 2 weeks) - and we had no complaints the whole last year.
What shall I do? She did not get expelled today, and they just said she had a 'bad day' ....but I wonder...

It was obviously HER aggression...
...all this from a first time dog owner

Heike
Any suggestions/ tips....it is really time for a behaviorist?

Man, and I just thought this weekend that she is calming down, well behaved. Comes back when called in the dog park...not as hyper...she does tell other dogs on leash or off leash while on a walk or at the dog park that she does not want to interfere with them but in a appropriate dog manner ...I think....really not like what happened today....

attached are just some pictures from her weekly day hike adventures to 'proof' that she does do well with other dogs ....


----------



## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

Boy, I don't have an answer for you. I am sure there are people here who are trainers that can help. The day care people didn't say that she could not come back???? Did they have any thoughts on what happened? Do you know if the dogs that she went after were new??? I will be interested to see what advice you get. I know how well she does with her hiking group so it is hard to know what happened at day care.


----------



## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Since she doesn't attack all dogs, it must be something about the particular dogs she didn't like. Maybe she doesn't go often enough to adjust?

My Gunner doesn't like strange dogs.. it takes him awhile to warm up to them.

So sorry this happened.. I hope things can work out for her. Sounds like you do other activities with her and she must do fine when you are around.


----------



## turtle66 (Feb 19, 2010)

The dogs in the facility were new dogs (for her) since she really doesn't go that often anymore (maybe once every 2 weeks).
The day people say that she can come back - they were saying - she just had a 'bad day'....but it is alarming, I think.

She is fine with us and at the day hiking adventures. She loves to be in the pack during the day hiking (although there are different dogs over the weeks too...). She is fine with me, even though she does not like all dogs while walking and will growl to them. This is then the time where we enclose that encounter (with that dog). She had little fights at the dog park before, especially when another dog took HER ball.


----------



## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Personally I would not take her back...there is something that is stressing her enough that she is faced with 'fight or flight' and she is choosing fight.
Outdoors with plenty of space and the right combination of dogs she may not feel the same stressors...


----------



## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

oh, my, not sweet little Lily!
maybe she wasn't feeling well, and they just annoyed her?


----------



## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Lilly*

I agree with the poster that said they would not take her back-obviously something there stressed her.


----------



## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I agree with LibertyMe. What happened to Lilly is exactly why I din't like day cares. I have seen many dogs become dog aggressive/defensive from those situations.


----------



## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

I tried to find this in your other posts, but couldn't. Is she spayed?


----------



## turtle66 (Feb 19, 2010)

Thanks for all those responses....

I will be thinking about it to not take her back. It won't be easy since she usually just goes there when I have to work AND there are cleaning people at our house, so our day care adventure with drop off won't work on those days..

And yes, she is spayed.


----------



## Angelina (Aug 11, 2011)

I don't think I would trust someone else unless I was really, really secure with their abilities to determine if my dog is playing nice with another or not. My dog exerciser chooses Nellie's companions wisely and makes sure the group works together before taking them out. Then she tries to make it the same members...

Nellie gets fustrated if she is playing with a dog who doesn't want to submit (she is dominate), she will pull on their ear hard and shake it and I've had to stop her from doing so. Otherwise I can see where a fight could break out easily.

I would not trust putting my dog in with a group of strange dogs every other week...no way. My dogs are home when my cleaners come too... they with put them in another room with the gate up (on rainy days) or they are outside. IF the cleaner can't deal with it then I will get another company to come clean.

Be careful...you don't want your dog to learn new 'bad' habits....


----------



## Luv4puppiessk (Sep 30, 2011)

I work a dog boarding facility myself and honestly the sweetest dogs will change their personalities while they stay with us at times. The high volume of dogs barking, something always going on, change of environment, new dogs, new people is a lot to take in for some dogs. Even if your dog has been there numerous times, sometimes to them it seems like a whole new experience each time. Even my own dogs change the way the act when they are there with me. See how she reacts around other dogs besides the dogs in your hiking group, just be cautious!


----------



## maggiesmommy (Feb 23, 2010)

Maggie has had issues with random dogs...she is sweet as anything and really good with other dogs, but, she just has a thing against bulldogs. She tries to fight with them whenever they get near her...were the two dogs similar breeds?


----------



## Angelina (Aug 11, 2011)

Any dog Nellie meets as a play date gets introduced off our property and walked with her first. I would never consider dropping any of my dogs off with an unknown group. K


----------



## turtle66 (Feb 19, 2010)

> were the two dogs similar breeds?


No - one was small, one was big....both were male dogs and she did not know both of them...

Thanks for all the great responses! It really helps to make a good decision about how to proceed! All comments are very helpful to me!

Heike


----------



## MyMaggieGirl (Nov 12, 2008)

Could she be not feeling well?


----------



## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

How old is she? Do you have the details of the fight?


----------



## turtle66 (Feb 19, 2010)

- Eating, drinkink, pooping is all well. She behaves just normal and she just had her yearly check up (without thyroid level) and she passed with an A 

- She will be 3 years in April...alsmost too old for this adolescent behavior.

Since I am going to a meeting with my husband, she will get boarded next week and we will see how that goes. It is a different facility and they have a different approach. They were not surprised that a dog acted like this if you throw them in a group. (I gave them a call the other day and 'warned' them) The approach with other dogs in this facility is more one by one/ careful / slowly....always. The owner of that facility was also Lilly's/ our trainer for a long period of time (we did all classes there). Unfortunately, his business is not an option for daily (or weekly) care while I am working, since they open at 8:00 (I have to be at work at 6:30) and it is a 45 minutes drive .

Thank you!

Heike


----------



## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

Well I am glad you have an alternative for boarding. I think their approach sounds much better. Maybe they will have a day care recommendation.


----------



## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

My guess is the other dogs started it but your girl finished it. I was thinking of doggie daycare for Cozy when she was a puppy for socialization. All the barking and action was too much for both of use. Too high energy. I did try it a few times but did not like it.


----------



## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

When my guys board, they are together in runs, with no outside dog interaction. Or someone stays here.


----------



## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Heike, sorry I have no advice, but I am curious whether the short dog in the first photo is a Swedish Vallhund?


----------



## turtle66 (Feb 19, 2010)

> Heike, sorry I have no advice, but I am curious whether the short dog in the first photo is a Swedish Vallhund?


I have no idea....


----------



## turtle66 (Feb 19, 2010)

Just an update, since we came back from our vacation and just got back Lilly from her boarding facility. She did great at her facility! What a difference. She was well behaved, got along with everyone (besides one)....described as a happy dog.

There was one male dog in the greeting area one day where he stiffened up when he saw Lilly, then Lilly got stiff, then the other dog growled, then Lilly attacked in the neck. No injuries. They got out the pans and stopped the fight with a loud noise. And that was it.

I think, this is almost normal behavior....she could have growled too, before attacking....but well.

They still try to make recommendations for another day care where we live, so I am excited to hear those. They also said the dog: people ratio is important - they do not more than 10 dogs and 1 person. And they really do, this morning, it was about 10 dogs and 2 people till one came out to talk to us. I am pretty sure by now that I should not go back to 'dogs dig it', the place where the several dog attacks happened... - they have a ratio about 20:1 there.


----------



## turtle66 (Feb 19, 2010)

I decided to not take her back to the day care. So she will go one more day a week to the day hike adventure and while cleaning people are at our house the woman who does the business agreed to have Lilly at her place some more hours and bring her home later.

I am still very aware of her 'partial' aggressiveness and try to get her to a 'neutral dog behavior' whenever we are on a walk etc....So far, these days she's doing just fine.

Again, thanks for all your help!

Heike


----------



## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

How old is Lily? Sometimes dogs just "outgrow" daycare. Daisy did, she got expelled, hah. I laugh about it now but at the time it was really hard, I felt bad. I took her to the vet to make sure nothing was wrong with her, she was fine. The daycare owner explained to me that sometimes when dogs mature, they just are not a good fit anymore, she didn't have the patience for dog antics anymore. That was an eye-opener, the 2 years prior she was considered a "staple," they could always count on her to play well with all the dogs.

Oh, I just read Lily is 3 years. That's exactly the age that Daisy had to leave daycare also. Interesting. I don't think it's so much adolescent behavior on Lily's part, but maybe a growing intolerance for adolescent behavior in other dogs.

Chin up, I think this is fairly common.


----------



## turtle66 (Feb 19, 2010)

Reading my old threads and thought it would be fun to update:

Lilly is now almost 7 years old.
She has been diagnosed by a veterinarian psychologist about 4 years ago, to be a submissive/reactive dog. We did a lots of training. At first one by one training with a behaviorist (-3000$) for about 4 months. I learned a lot (how to behave), Lilly 'learned' a lot, got nicely less aggressive and then we did maintenance training (and still do) over the years. Basically every day is a training lesson when I walk Lilly and another dog approaches. She will need to look at the dog and look at me and then get a treat for that. We did also many classes (once a week) in a save made environment for reactive dogs. I learned A LOT!!! Including how to react with dogs coming to Lilly off leash....Last year we did a fun 'call of the wild reactive dog camp' in Oregon which was a nice refresher for us and I realized, Lilly was amount all those other dogs just mildly reactive - her threshold was rather high. I am blessed to have Lilly as first time dog owner. I learned so much, because of her...

Another add-on. I really believe nose work is a great sport for owners with reactive dog. It will intensify bonding but it will also will made the dog less reactive over time. All dogs are on leash - at a distance. No one is approaching. Week for week and there is fun stuff going on (=nose work). Needless to say - we are working on our nose work 3 title.

And by the way - don't ask me how, but Lilly is still fine to 1000 acres off leash with 6 other dogs with our day hiker. She knows Lilly exactly and knows how she needs to get approached with new dogs joining the pack. Once they have the establishment in the pack, Lilly is fine. She does not love other dogs, but she will tolerate them and show them their borders.

Oh - I did not say, needless to say - Lilly, loves, loves, loves people. Her purpose in life. She even got her animal-assisted-therapy dog badge. We never went to that, because she got more aggressive to other animals shortly after we passed the test when she was a little over a year, but well, we might do it again, now, while she 7 years old.

The last picture you see was from today....she was obviously having fun running with other dogs. 2 other picture were from nose work events :


----------



## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Turpal
I lub u menneeee

And Max's mom loves you too


----------



## Harleysmum (Aug 19, 2014)

Love the pictures of her running off leash with her friends. She looks very happy.


----------



## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Lilly*

Your Lilly is truly a beauty! Bless you for not giving up on her and all the work you've done with her!


----------



## turtle66 (Feb 19, 2010)

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Heike and Lilly


----------



## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

Awwwww Lilly. I know what Gambler loved you so and so do I Your mommy is the BEST!!!


----------



## swishywagga (Nov 13, 2012)

Aw Lilly you are such a beautiful girl, love the photos of you and your lovely mom!.


----------



## Wenderwoman (Jan 7, 2013)

I can't really help much but I do have a dog that we are training and for each class, during that first class she will growl and snap gently at other dogs. She's fine on the second day though.


----------



## turtle66 (Feb 19, 2010)

Thank you, all 

Heike


----------

