# Judge measuring each dog in Open A?



## Beanie (Mar 18, 2010)

Yesterday a friend of mine competed in Open A in WI. The judge decided that each dog needed to be measured. He instructed the stewards to set the jumps 2 inches lower than the owner told them, measured the dog then set the jumps again (what a complete waste of time). To make it worse this was her first time in Open and her Border Collie was not happy with this man coming up to him with a stick in his hand and moved closer to her as he walked up. The judge berated her for having an 'untrained dog' and told her she could lose points for this. (he didn't take any away but told her to train more.) This of course rattled the heck out of her and her dog and they didn't qualify.

Anyway, I've stewarded and competed in Open A and have never had this happen to me. Wondering if it has happened to you? Is this common? I know my Golden would not be happy with a man coming over with a stick and I surely have not trained her for this eventuality. I'll be whipping out the ruler tonight! I have also put this judge on the DO NOT SHOW UNDER list of judges.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Holy cow..... 

You know at a fun match yesterday I was chatting with two ladies who had a different breed (papillion). The one has been understating her dog's height and getting away with it since people don't really measure at trials. And the other lady commented that most judges just eyeball the dog against the high jump. 

I guess I won't try passing off my 23.5" golden as 22".


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

At the invitational (NOI) in Long Beach there was a judge that always measures the dogs so when she judged at the NOI all of the dogs were measured for her ring.
We also have a judge in our area that measures all of the utility and open dogs because there had been a few handlers that had provided jump heights that ummm...seemed a tad low for their particular dogs.

Because of the measurements in our area the jump heights were changed by the judge for a few dogs.

EDIT: It is not a bad idea to teach your dog to stand and be measured by a judge.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

When my King was competing (late 80's early 90's) it was standard for each dog to be measured as (s)he entered the ring. It was specifically trained for then and probably should be now. I think Faelan was measured once and Rowdy & Casey were also measured a time or two - it is a bit more courteous for the judge to measure every single dog stepping into the ring than to cherry pick which dogs get measured  And really takes no time when the dogs have been trained for it.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Measuring every dog used to be mandatory, now it is up to the judge if they want to measure every dog they may, or if they just question one dog's height they can measure that specific dog. Definitely something that should be practiced.

The only issue I have is that using a ruler to measure is not the most accurate way to do it, so if you have a dog that is close to having to jump higher, it is possible (and I have seen it happen) that the judge will get a higher measurement than the dog really is. Some people in this case, with the dog being very close to the next height, will go ahead and jump their dog at the next height rather than have it sprung on them unexpectedly at a trial.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

I have had this happen to me a couple times...I have one of those dogs right on the line... 20 5/8" and a male..
There are a few judges that measure every dog.. and some that just "pick" ones or one to measure.. I always practice at the higher and show at the lower.I have only had one time where they moved the jumps up and since she has apologized to me saying she must have measured him at an angle. Two years ago at the NOI I decided to not chance messing up things in two rings.. and just jumped him higher. Both rings I was asked after my measurement if I wanted to jump that height or did I want to move down.. I stayed at the higher . While I don't mind that they measure every dog... I do however mind I am completly set up for signals and he decides to make a huge production of measuring my dog... there was a huge crowd by the time we were done.. he kept announcing to the crowd...this dog is clearly jumping to low....then when he got the stick on Titan.. then announced to the crowd that he was VERY close... I was so embarrassed at that point I told him that I just wanted to run my dog and he could move the jumps up.. I know he is close but he is not 21". I was sure he would move us up because of the fuss he made but he did tell the crowd we were absolutly legitimate. Titan was close but according to the rules he was jumping the correct height. I was so horrified by the whole thing... I think we blew 2 things in that run... personal choice but I will never show to that man again, not because he measured but because he embarrassed me and made me feel like I was cheating..


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## Beanie (Mar 18, 2010)

As one person said it was the embarrassment of it all that threw off my friend. She said the judge was so pompus and snarky that she was just mortified. This is not what you want to do to Open A people! Geez

Rumor has it that he judged Rally the day before and there were some pretty obvious strange jump heights and people complained. So he just decided to 'fix' the complaints the next day and measured everyone.

I'm going to train for it but I'm also right at the edge in height so even though I've had two judges measure Ellie I can see a quick measurement taken and I look like I'm lying. One more thing to stress about!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Well, back in the day, as everyone else has said, we trained our dogs to be measured. When I first started showing Sally in Open they had just lowered her jump height from 36 to 30 inches. She was a tall bitch. We also were taught, to not raise the head when measured as that made them taller! Quite the contrary in conformation when they bring out the wicket especially if the dog looks small...


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Both my Cookie and Laney were just at the edge as well. I simply showed and trained at the higher height regardless.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I've sure been to a lot of shows when the dogs SHOULD have been measured!
Tito stands 23-1/2, he jumps 24 inches. There have frequently been taller dogs than he jumping 22! 
Once there was someone with a "breed golden" (male) who was going on and on to me about him being a conformation dog. Then she takes him in the ring (utility) and has her jumps set at TWENTY inches!! Ummmm, your dog would be DQ'd from the breed ring if he were that short!
Didn't matter, the dog walked around the high jump anyway.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

OMG! I was at this show! It was a COMPLETE waste of time and only one dog qualified out of the whole entire class.  I honestly think it made my dogs attitude go down...normally she'll wag her tail when she sees someone, but she was a bit taken back by him coming towards her. He said my height was fine, as she is like 23.2. Needless to say, I didn't like him as a judge..and won't be going back to him again!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Training your dog to be measured should be done before entering an Open class; sorry but it is potential part of the class and the judge is responsible for ensuring dogs jump their correct height. As mentioned by myself and others it used to be mandatory and takes no time. I too resent dogs taller than mine jumping obviously lower jump heights and I think allowing it is a disservice to the sport - the judge can prevent it by measuring. Why this particular judge had the jump heights set 2 inches lower than stated on the entry is a mystery though.

I have a small male who the judges look at twice (I jumped him at 24 although he could legally jump 22 mostly for the broad jump - 3 boards vs 4) and I also anticipate my Towhee will be measured if I jump her at her correct height. So they are trained to accept the ruler just as they are trained to accept a judge bending over them for exams. They are also trained to jump the height that will not make the judge think  .


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

I, actually, feel that more judges should go back to measuring or perhaps an official measurement card such as in agility should be the norm.
There were several people who routinely jumped their dogs (not Goldens) at a lower jump height. Once one person did it without question several more people did the same thing. Pretty soon we had an entire group of a certain breed that were very "short" for their breed.
One time my dog, who jumped 24", followed them and the stewards questioned me that I had made a mistake by having too high of a jump height.
No, my dog's height was correct but it didn't make sense when compared with the other dogs.

I have no problem with those judges who have decided to try to keep handlers honest by measuring. It is too bad some people have taken advantage and submitted jump heights that don't fit their dogs.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

The original obedience club I belonged to did it as part of the training prior to entering the ring... And yes, I see Goldens bigger than mine, jumping lower....hmmmm... As I said earlier, when I entered the game, my Sally jumped 30 inches down from 36. Now in 2012, she would jump 24!


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## Beanie (Mar 18, 2010)

I have no problem having her measured but I think the issue is it has become so uncommon that it was a shock to people to be asked to do it. I train under a obedience judge and we've never once talked about the possiblity. That could be that she is assuming I know it could happen but as a new competitor I don't know some of this stuff. Lesson learned on the back of my friend!

As someone else said - we need jump cards like agility. That would resolve this problem and save TONS of time and resentment at a show. Heck making the jump heights the same as agility would even make it easier. I jump 24 at agility but 22 in obedience as she is right on the edge. 

Maggiemoo - sorry you had a bad day as well.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

I would love to have jump height cards for obedience.. As one who has a dog right on the line.. it would be nice to be sure. I do train for the higher jump BUT according to the rules I am jumping the correct height and I hate jumping a 8 year older higher than he needs specially on just thin matted floors over cement. It would eliminate the need for judges to worry about that also. I have never minded the measurement just how two judges did it.. and I even actually benefited from one of them.. Just does not feel good to be singled out let me tell you and it felt like one was on a mission from her friend (judge) sitting outside the ring.. Happy to report that it made no difference to Titan and he still won the class...we got the last laugh..but still was not fun to be singled out.. I will not cheat to win or place. I am what I am and will not stoop the that level. As much fun as we have I could walk away tomorrow and still have my wonderful dogs and my life would be just as rich.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Beanie said:


> I have no problem having her measured but I think the issue is it has become so uncommon that it was a shock to people to be asked to do it. I train under a obedience judge and we've never once talked about the possiblity. That could be that she is assuming I know it could happen but as a new competitor I don't know some of this stuff. Lesson learned on the back of my friend!
> 
> As someone else said - we need jump cards like agility. That would resolve this problem and save TONS of time and resentment at a show. Heck making the jump heights the same as agility would even make it easier. I jump 24 at agility but 22 in obedience as she is right on the edge.
> 
> Maggiemoo - sorry you had a bad day as well.


I had actually said this at the trial to someone. If agility does it, why can't we?? And then add in a 'preferred' jump height just like they do. Some of these dogs compete well into their senior ages and a thin mat and a concrete floor underneath doesn't support joints well. It honestly makes no sense to me, but what the heck do I know?? LOL! :bowl:


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