# Should I find another breeder?



## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I haven't researched the breeder or if I did I've forgotten. I was given all of that info by two breeders before I even met them. One mailed me the pedigree so I could look it up in k9data and I think (I'm not sure) the other emailed me the Sire and Dam's info and I was able to look it up myself.

If you still want to go and get the info, do not give a deposit until you can take the information they have provided you home, and do much more research on the pedigree and be sure to confirm the accuracy.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

i dont know anything about this breeder... but i do know that if you have asked repeatedly for the clearances and she is dodging the issue or wanting you to come look at the puppies THEN she'll give you the info you want (hoping you will go there, fall in love with the puppies and throw all your sensibilities out the window i'm sure!) that you should probably look elsewhere.

a reputable breeder will OFFER UP any info and clearances that they spent time and money to get done.. you shouldn't have to BEG for them...


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

and yes, DO NOT give a deposit until you have the info you are looking for. absolutely!


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## EddieME (Nov 25, 2007)

JoVonD said:


> I've posted here before about Breezyknoll Kennels and after hearing your responses I was a bit worried about purchasing a puppy from them. We've been in contact with them through email since October and not once has she offered to send us clearances when we asked about the health of their goldens. We even asked for a copy in the last email we sent her and she told us to make an appointment to meet them once the breeding is completed (spring/summer) and then she'll go through copies of registration and clearances when we meet. Is that normal, or should she have just sent them over?
> 
> Should I find another breeder? I have found two other breeders, butterblac retrievers and chien d'or, that I was thinking of looking into in case breezyknoll didn't work out.
> Any advice is great, thanks


Find another breeder. The information you are asking for is straight forward and should be forthcoming from the breeder.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

i usually have people come for an interview before accepting a reservation, when they are here I show them clearance papers on both sire/dam and stress "you get a copy of these in your puppy packet" this is usually well before the breeding happens as most of my litters are spoken for in advance....if you are feeling in any way concerned about the way this breeder operates "find another one" ...there are many reputable breeders out there!


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

reading back over previous posts and your profile...you are 17? do you have your families approval for adopting a puppy? I thought i read in one post one family member is not keen on the dog hair....this may be just me but...I will spend countless hrs online helping my puppy purchasers, or on the phone or in person, what really irks me is when i go to great lengths to help and my advice is disregarded or ignored ....breeders do have a life beyond our dogs and puppies ... many times our families are put on the back burner to help / assist our "dog families" please keep this in mind when contacting/communicating with us....I myself work straight nights and "most" times do not get sleep in the day to accomodate dog/puppy inquiries....


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Not familiar with Breezyknoll but if you are not comfortable with them maybe look elsewhere. Both of the other breeders you mentioned have been around over 30 years and have bred manny beautiful dogs in that time. You can enter the kennel names into k9data.com and see some of them. You will still need to do your homework and ask all the normal questions despite their longevity in the breed.
Arcane does make a good point about your age. Unfortunately some breeders may not take you seriously due to it. May not be fair but it happens in all walks of life.
Good luck in your search.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

arcane said:


> i usually have people come for an interview before accepting a reservation, when they are here I show them clearance papers on both sire/dam and stress "you get a copy of these in your puppy packet" this is usually well before the breeding happens as most of my litters are spoken for in advance....if you are feeling in any way concerned about the way this breeder operates "find another one" ...there are many reputable breeders out there!


 
We were interviewed by Tucker's breeder. I can't tell you how many times she said, you may not get a puppy, this meeting is an interview.


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## JoVonD (Dec 31, 2007)

arcane said:


> reading back over previous posts and your profile...you are 17? do you have your families approval for adopting a puppy? I thought i read in one post one family member is not keen on the dog hair....this may be just me but...I will spend countless hrs online helping my puppy purchasers, or on the phone or in person, what really irks me is when i go to great lengths to help and my advice is disregarded or ignored ....breeders do have a life beyond our dogs and puppies ... many times our families are put on the back burner to help / assist our "dog families" please keep this in mind when contacting/communicating with us....I myself work straight nights and "most" times do not get sleep in the day to accomodate dog/puppy inquiries....


I am 17 and my family has approved. I wouldn't go out and purchase one without having their consent first. My mom isn't too keen on hair but we have a cat who sheds a lot, so having animal hair around isn't anything new for us.
I understand you do go to great lengths to help as a breeder and I appreciate that. This is just our first time ever purchasing from a breeder so I really don't know what to look for. From the last post about this breeder there was a problem with clearances, which is why I'm asking if we should look into another breeder. I'm hoping I won't have to look for another because I'd feel horrible telling her we aren't interested after being in contact for such a long time, but in the end it's about getting a healthy puppy and if there's a health problem there I wouldn't feel to great about purchasing from them, you know?


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

JoVonD said:


> I've posted here before about Breezyknoll Kennels and after hearing your responses I was a bit worried about purchasing a puppy from them. We've been in contact with them through email since October and not once has she offered to send us clearances when we asked about the health of their goldens. We even asked for a copy in the last email we sent her and she told us to make an appointment to meet them once the breeding is completed (spring/summer) and then she'll go through copies of registration and clearances when we meet. Is that normal, or should she have just sent them over?
> 
> Should I find another breeder? I have found two other breeders, butterblac retrievers and chien d'or, that I was thinking of looking into in case breezyknoll didn't work out.
> Any advice is great, thanks


I personally see no reason whatsoever that any breeder would not cheerfully, proudly, and readily offer clearance information to people inquiring about puppies. 
Links to k9data and the OFA database are easily provided, if they exist, and take a breeder only seconds to send via email.
When I get a puppy inquiry via email, I send pictures of bother sire and dam, and links to their pedigrees on k9 data, and clearances on the OFA database. People should have the opportunity to SEE this BEFORE they make a decision to commit to a puppy, and to be able to discuss it with the breeder who they will be developing a relationship with.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

JoVonD said:


> I am 17 and my family has approved. I wouldn't go out and purchase one without having their consent first. My mom isn't too keen on hair but we have a cat who sheds a lot, so having animal hair around isn't anything new for us.
> I understand you do go to great lengths to help as a breeder and I appreciate that. This is just our first time ever purchasing from a breeder so I really don't know what to look for. From the last post about this breeder there was a problem with clearances, which is why I'm asking if we should look into another breeder. I'm hoping I won't have to look for another because I'd feel horrible telling her we aren't interested after being in contact for such a long time, but in the end it's about getting a healthy puppy and if there's a health problem there I wouldn't feel to great about purchasing from them, you know?


I might add that I am impressed by your maturity and committment to researching and learning so that you and your family get a good quality, healthy dog from a breeder that you can work with. 
I wouldn't worry about telling this or any other breeder that you are no longer interested if they have not been willing to provide information that should be readily offered, and would help a potential buyer make an informed decision. I WANT puppy buyers that have done their homework, and am as happy to be "interviewed" by them as they are by me.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

JoVonD said:


> I am 17 and my family has approved. I wouldn't go out and purchase one without having their consent first. My mom isn't too keen on hair but we have a cat who sheds a lot, so having animal hair around isn't anything new for us.
> 
> From the last post about this breeder there was a problem with clearances, which is why I'm asking if we should look into another breeder. I'm hoping I won't have to look for another because I'd feel horrible telling her we aren't interested after being in contact for such a long time, but in the end it's about getting a healthy puppy and if there's a health problem there I wouldn't feel to great about purchasing from them, you know?


thank you for clarifying for me  If you have been in contact for a number of months..said breeder should not be offended if you ask for emailed clearance info sent to you prior to your interview or deposit being submitted...I would gladly do this for anyone that asks ....if they have a problem doing this then I would look at alternate litters elsewhere....this is jmo...good luck


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

If you have been in contact with this breeder for a number of months then she KNOWS you and your family are serious puppy buyers. She should NOT be dodging you on the clearances! When I put a deposit on Jasmine is was at the International Show so I was interviewed a week later when the show was over. He stressed that the deposit was refundable if we DID NOT qualify. Our interview lasted 2 hours and during that time I saw all the clearances on the parents as well as met the parents themselves. I also got a complete tour of their kennels and whole facility which consists of about 5 + acres. I got a copy of all the clearances when we brought Jasmine home as well as pictures of the parents and theirpedigrees and show wins.

The breeder you mentioned I don't know but if she won't send you clearance copies then I would run far and fast!

Jazzys Mom


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

JoVonD,

As I say when people do not like their doctors, you hire them and you can fire them. If you are NOT comfortable with any breeder, do not feel badly looking elsewhere. Follow your instincts...


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## Phillyfisher (Jan 9, 2008)

We have been looking for are puppy as well, and I can tell you both of the breeders we spoke with provided us with clearances and certs upfront and first thing. Now, I had done my research as well and found them on the offa.org website myself, by entering the names of the dam and sire, before I went to meet them, so I already new what they would be handing me when I got there. 

Google the breeders name (not the name of the kennel). Do you see links come to golden retriever related sites? For example, if they show their dogs, you may find their name in some show results listing. You may also find problems others have had with the breeder. Whatever you find will help you decide whether or not they are being truthful to you.

You are asking the right questions, at the right place! Good for you. I believe strongly that if it does not feel right in your gut, it probably isn't. Trust your instincts. Even at 17 they will tell you what to do. Good luck with your search, it will all work out in the end.


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## Goldenjewel (Jan 26, 2008)

Have visited Breezyknoll, and they were very thorough and have beautiful dogs. They showed me all the proper clearances (a relative came with me who is in the Veterinary field). Was very pleased with my visit and the answers to my questions so only have positive things to say... I also checked several references as well and all were great!! Am getting my next golden from Breezyknoll and I know I won't be disappointed!!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Goldenjewel said:


> Have visited Breezyknoll, and they were very thorough and have beautiful dogs. They showed me all the proper clearances (a relative came with me who is in the Veterinary field). Was very pleased with my visit and the answers to my questions so only have positive things to say... I also checked several references as well and all were great!! Am getting my next golden from Breezyknoll and I know I won't be disappointed!!


 
Very interesting. First, welcome to the forum. Interesting first post. Interesting that you would be shown all clearances but no one else would be. And that they are not in the databases. I continue to maintain that no breeder should withhold clearance info from ANYone inquiring.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Goldenjewel said:


> Have visited Breezyknoll, and they were very thorough and have beautiful dogs. They showed me all the proper clearances (a relative came with me who is in the Veterinary field). Was very pleased with my visit and the answers to my questions so only have positive things to say... I also checked several references as well and all were great!! Am getting my next golden from Breezyknoll and I know I won't be disappointed!!


 
i dont know why but i keep picturing those obnoxious car salesman commercials when i read this post..... is it just me..? lol


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Goldenjewel said:


> Have visited Breezyknoll, and they were very thorough and have beautiful dogs. They showed me all the proper clearances (a relative came with me who is in the Veterinary field). Was very pleased with my visit and the answers to my questions so only have positive things to say... I also checked several references as well and all were great!! Am getting my next golden from Breezyknoll and I know I won't be disappointed!!


Hi welcome first off...I too found it interesting that you found this thread right off the hop...and no intro email or thread as you just joined on 01/26/08 ...I am pleased you are such a supporter of Breezeknoll ...I hope you get a wonderful puppy ...now all she has to do is supply others with the requested clearance information...

hope you enjoy the forum!!!!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

missmarstar said:


> i dont know why but i keep picturing those obnoxious car salesman commercials when i read this post..... is it just me..? lol


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Nope. Not just you, Marlene!​


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## Jazz & Jules (Feb 25, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> Very interesting. First, welcome to the forum. Interesting first post. Interesting that you would be shown all clearances but no one else would be. And that they are not in the databases. I continue to maintain that no breeder should withhold clearance info from ANYone inquiring.


I'm going to hi-jack just a moment.

1) So seeing clearences prior to placing a deposit is not only acceptable, but responsible, correct?

2) It it common that potential puppy buyers ask to see clearences not only on the Sire and Dam, but 1-2 generations back as well? And how do breeders react to this?


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Jazz & Jules said:


> I'm going to hi-jack just a moment.
> 
> 1) So seeing clearences prior to placing a deposit is not only acceptable, but responsible, correct?
> 
> 2) It it common that potential puppy buyers ask to see clearences not only on the Sire and Dam, but 1-2 generations back as well? And how do breeders react to this?


Yes I believe it is!!! 

If I have the paperwork you are very welcome to see it ...and have hard copies!! the only time it may not be available is in the case of using someone else's stud dog ---you may have hard copies of His clearances but perhaps not 1-2 generations behind him....that is where databases/trust/ relationships with fellow breeders comes into play...


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Welcome, but I don't understand why they would not be put out for the public. Ecspecially if they are all "proper clearences". I look at clearences kind of like if you got em flaunt em. But be honest if you don't LOL.


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## Ambertru (Sep 21, 2007)

Well, here I go..  I see no problem with sharing clearances with prospective owners or stearing them to a database where they are listed HOWEVER I want to meet with people FIRST before supplying copies or anything else because a) I want to be sure that this is the type of person I would want to sell a puppy to in the first place. b) I want to be sure the person is serious and c) forgive me but some people are just being nosey and waste valuable time I could be spending with someone who "really" cares.
I've been doing this a long time and haven't had any complaints yet  I'm sure I provide far more than they want or need. LOL I can even show the x-rays!


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Jazz & Jules said:


> I'm going to hi-jack just a moment.
> 
> 1) So seeing clearences prior to placing a deposit is not only acceptable, but responsible, correct?
> 
> 2) It it common that potential puppy buyers ask to see clearences not only on the Sire and Dam, but 1-2 generations back as well? And how do breeders react to this?


 
Yes, what people need to understand as I may breed but I buy too. 

1. YES, before you send a deposit the clearences should be confimed. I have a list months in advance and don't take deposits until pups are atleast 2 weeks old.

2. Yes, in my opinion people should not need to ask they should be able to see them and clearences should be offered. 1 and 2 gens back can be confimed on OFA. Breeders should not get hostile at all when asked but they need to be asked in a polite manner. 

Hope that helps.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Jazz & Jules said:


> I'm going to hi-jack just a moment.
> 
> 1) So seeing clearences prior to placing a deposit is not only acceptable, but responsible, correct?
> 
> 2) It it common that potential puppy buyers ask to see clearences not only on the Sire and Dam, but 1-2 generations back as well? And how do breeders react to this?


Seeing clearances upon first inquiry is the ONLY way I would then proceed to a point where a deposit would be made. So, responsible, and SMART. 

Potential buyers should see clearances on the sire and dam, and, be able to check back at _least _3 generations in my opinion. Now, as it is not uncommon that the grandparents/ greatgrandparents, etc do not/did not belong to the breeder that you are considering purchasing a puppy from, they should be able to be found in the OFA database. This is why I consider it important to send the clearance info in. The OFA database is a reference library, of sorts, and is invaluable to breeders and buyers alike. 
As to how breeders react to being asked for generational clearance info, speaking for myself, I am rarely ASKED because I OFFER this information before I am. I would have to say that reputable, responsible breeders would in no way be offended by being asked, and would proudly, cheerfully, and READILY provide the info. In another thread I mentioned how this now takes minutes, if that, to be able to provide links to k9 data and the OFA database directing puppy inquiries right to the pertinent information. If I get a phone call inquiring about puppies, while chatting with the people I ask that they send me an email, indicating that we spoke, and that I will reply with photos, pedigree, and clearance links. I then keep their email in a folder named "Puppy Inquiries" which I can refer to later to update them on the progress of upcoming litters, etc. When a pregnancy is confirmed, I create an email group for those getting puppies and keep everyone updated throughout the pregnancy, whelping, growth of pups, etc. It's fun, the buyers love it, and I am able to do more in less time. 
I LOVE potential buyers coming to me armed with all the right questions and who have obviously done their "homework" in regards to knowing what to look for in a breeder and the puppies!!!


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## Jazz & Jules (Feb 25, 2007)

Ash said:


> Yes, what people need to understand as I may breed but I buy too.
> 
> 1. YES, before you send a deposit the clearences should be confimed. I have a list months in advance and don't take deposits until pups are atleast 2 weeks old.
> 
> ...


Excellent info everyone!

And I think it also needs to be said, no matter how well you 'know' your breeder, go through the routine and 'ask' for those clearence conformations.


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## Ambertru (Sep 21, 2007)

Jazz & Jules said:


> I'm going to hi-jack just a moment.
> 
> 1) So seeing clearences prior to placing a deposit is not only acceptable, but responsible, correct?
> 
> 2) It it common that potential puppy buyers ask to see clearences not only on the Sire and Dam, but 1-2 generations back as well? And how do breeders react to this?


I agree to both. Any breeder who has researched the breeding should be able to provide information for several generations but again I wouldn't expect any breeder to send all this info. They may want to meet you in person and provide information at that time.
Besides, clearances or not, why would you want to send a deposit if you haven't even met at least one parent?


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Ambertru said:


> Besides, clearances or not, why would you want to send a deposit if you haven't even met at least one parent?


 
I don't really understand your point. Lots of people whether they are pet buyers/breeders/folks that want a show dog buy puppies all the time without meeting the sire or dam.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Ash said:


> I don't really understand your point. Lots of people whether they are pet buyers/breeders/folks that want a show dog buy puppies all the time without meeting the sire or dam.


 
I agree. And this is yet _another _reason that I believe that clearances should be entered in the OFA database, and pedigrees in k9 data. Some of the onus of researching this information should be on the buyers, and is really easily found. Obviously, being able to meet/know both parents is ideal, but is not always possible.


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## time4goldens (Mar 13, 2006)

Whatever you decide to do - I want to congratulate you on being so "informed" and for doing your research, at 17 or whatever age. There are many adults that don't even know what you know now. The fact that you have been in touch with them and repeatedly asked for what you need is not a good sign. I have seen many breeders promising AKC papers that never come also. 

I understand them wanting to meet you - but that should have NO BEARING on them providing documentation to you prior to that meeting, unless they have something to hide, or want to sway you to their way of thinking. 

There are many good breeders out there that don't play games. When I have a service done for me in my home, I always get three quotes - it isn't for the money part of it as it is to see what suggestions they might make. The contractors that ask me good questions, that offer me ideas, are usually the ones that win the bid. You are talking about a live animal here - there is no problem in dealing with 2 breeders and measuring them against each other.
It is a business to them and you should be treated like a customer.

Take a look at the website - wwwlandofpuregold.com - they have a lot of good information as well as additional resources about the breed that may be of held to you.

Good luck in finding the puppy of your dreams.


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## Ambertru (Sep 21, 2007)

Ash said:


> I don't really understand your point. Lots of people whether they are pet buyers/breeders/folks that want a show dog buy puppies all the time without meeting the sire or dam.


 
Ok, there are special circumstances for everything and occasions where clearances have to be sent and the new owner never meets the parents. BUT, more often than not, pet people are within driving distance and would want to make a point to come for a visit to meet the parent(s) and see the breeders set up and so on.

In the case of breeders, at least I speak for myself when I say that when I finally contact a breeder about a puppy I have already done my homework, researched pedigrees, clearances, and anything else I can find far beyond the parents of the puppy. 
If someone from a distance contacts me for a show puppy I do the same groundwork and research them. (and in the case of pet puppies at distance check references and find out what I need to know before sending a puppy off) 

I guess I may be a bit anal about stuff like that but at least I sleep at night knowing my puppies are in good homes 

I have to say, the research you are doing is very admirable for someone of your age. Most breeders would respect that. My advice to you is visit if you can and meet the breeder in person. See their facilities, ask where puppies are raised and see that area if possible. Clearances are just the tip of the iceburg and can be easily falsified if you don't take the extra step to research. There is a much bigger picture 

Best of Luck to you!


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

I too agree! Thank you for doing your research instead of just jumping into something you werent sure about. Im sure you will know when you find the right one for you and good luck!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Ambertru said:


> Ok, there are special circumstances for everything and occasions where clearances have to be sent and the new owner never meets the parents. BUT, more often than not, pet people are within driving distance and would want to make a point to come for a visit to meet the parent(s) and see the breeders set up and so on.
> 
> In the case of breeders, at least I speak for myself when I say that when I finally contact a breeder about a puppy I have already done my homework, researched pedigrees, clearances, and anything else I can find far beyond the parents of the puppy.
> If someone from a distance contacts me for a show puppy I do the same groundwork and research them. (and in the case of pet puppies at distance check references and find out what I need to know before sending a puppy off)
> ...


Connie, I think that ultimately, as breeders, we are all on the same page. I refer people to links to peds and health clearances, as soon as they contact me, we have spoken, and I feel that they are at least legitmately interested. I am "screening" them just as they are screening me. If I determine during our conversation that we are not a good fit, so be it. I still don't have any issues with them verifying my clearances and pedigrees online. It can be the difference in that person saying positive or negative things about me as a breeder to others. I don't send "hard copies", however, until it is decided that they will be buying a puppy (*unless the person does not have email or access to a fax...and a pregnancy is confirmed) at which time they will be sent a "Puppy Pack" which I spend a great deal of time putting together. My puppy packs are bound reports containing a title page regarding the particular litter, and litter theme, photo, pedigree, AKC registration, title certificates and all clearances, for each parent. Copies of my mission statement, feeding instructions, contract, and any veterinary correspondence that might be pertinent to the litter are also included. A fun collage of photos is also in the book. These are not inexpensive to produce and mail, thus they are only sent to those actually getting puppies. When they come to pick up their puppy, copies of temperament/aptitude tests are given which they can add to their puppy book. When I schedule pick ups, the new owners are told to plan on a minimum of 45 minutes to go over paperwork, interpretations of tests/evals, feeding, and training instructions. NO one comes and simply hands over a check, takes their puppy, and leaves. This is, for all intents and purposes, a collaborative adoption. I am upfront with people from word one in that I do not disappear once they get their puppy, and they need to be comfortable enough with me to be able to call me ANY time during the lifetime of their puppy, and to also know that I will contact them regularly to see how "my" baby is doing. 
Even though procedural differences might exist, reputable, respnsible, _caring _breeders work towards the same end - healthy, correct dogs going to great homes.


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## Ambertru (Sep 21, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> Connie, I think that ultimately, as breeders, we are all on the same page. I refer people to links to peds and health clearances, as soon as they contact me, we have spoken, and I feel that they are at least legitmately interested. I am "screening" them just as they are screening me. If I determine during our conversation that we are not a good fit, so be it. I still don't have any issues with them verifying my clearances and pedigrees online. It can be the difference in that person saying positive or negative things about me as a breeder to others. I don't send "hard copies", however, until it is decided that they will be buying a puppy (*unless the person does not have email or access to a fax...and a pregnancy is confirmed) at which time they will be sent a "Puppy Pack" which I spend a great deal of time putting together. My puppy packs are bound reports containing a title page regarding the particular litter, and litter theme, photo, pedigree, AKC registration, title certificates and all clearances, for each parent. Copies of my mission statement, feeding instructions, contract, and any veterinary correspondence that might be pertinent to the litter are also included. A fun collage of photos is also in the book. These are not inexpensive to produce and mail, thus they are only sent to those actually getting puppies. When they come to pick up their puppy, copies of temperament/aptitude tests are given which they can add to their puppy book. When I schedule pick ups, the new owners are told to plan on a minimum of 45 minutes to go over paperwork, interpretations of tests/evals, feeding, and training instructions. NO one comes and simply hands over a check, takes their puppy, and leaves. This is, for all intents and purposes, a collaborative adoption. I am upfront with people from word one in that I do not disappear once they get their puppy, and they need to be comfortable enough with me to be able to call me ANY time during the lifetime of their puppy, and to also know that I will contact them regularly to see how "my" baby is doing.
> Even though procedural differences might exist, reputable, respnsible, _caring _breeders work towards the same end - healthy, correct dogs going to great homes.


I agree 100%. Much better expressed than my attempt. No good breeder tries to hide test results, but it's not usual to send off hard copies to everyone who inquires.


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## goldbrador (Nov 9, 2007)

I just did a search on OFA and didn't find one single Golden Retriever with the kennel name Arcane - does Arcane not do clearances?? Or, are all their hip and elbow clearances done with OVC and are therefore not listed on OFA? Just because the information is not on OFA does not mean the dogs do not have full clearances.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

goldbrador said:


> I just did a search on OFA and didn't find one single Golden Retriever with the kennel name Arcane - does Arcane not do clearances?? Or, are all their hip and elbow clearances done with OVC and are therefore not listed on OFA? Just because the information is not on OFA does not mean the dogs do not have full clearances.


 
Ummm, welcome to the forum?


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

goldbrador said:


> I just did a search on OFA and didn't find one single Golden Retriever with the kennel name Arcane - does Arcane not do clearances?? Or, are all their hip and elbow clearances done with OVC and are therefore not listed on OFA? Just because the information is not on OFA does not mean the dogs do not have full clearances.


I'm sure Arcane will easily be able to answer your questions with regard to her breeding program. Until then, just want to welcome you to GRF. Are you currently searching for a golden? Your screen name suggests you have a golden(s) and labrador(s) or a mix?

Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

If clearances exist, whether listed in OFA or not, a breeder would/should readily offer to show them to persons considering purchasing a puppy or dog from them. If a breeder does not, it certainly would cause one to suspect that they do NOT in fact exist. Personally, I believe that all breeders should submit their clearances to the OFA to avoid such suspicion. I believe that Arcane has explained her position on this quite clearly. She shows anyone who asks. Breezyknoll evidently does not. Wonder why...

Again it is very interesting that there have now been two new members sign on and immediately post to this thread - no introductions, no info in profiles, no other posts. One and the same, perhaps? Maybe even Breezyknoll themselves?
I believe that the breeders on this forum have been very forthright and honest with members, as well as trying to be as helpful as they can with any questions they might have. Reputable, responsible, caring breeders do no less.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Who cares who the new members are or where they come from, they ask valid questions. Why not just answer them?


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> Who cares who the new members are or where they come from, they ask valid questions. Why not just answer them?


Actually if either of the posts PG pointed to asked questions, they answered them themselves in their same posts.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Welcome to the forum. Are you looking for a puppy? Arcane is a valued member of this forum and I am sure she will answer any questions you may have, if you just ask

JAzzys Mom


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

goldbrador said:


> I just did a search on OFA and didn't find one single Golden Retriever with the kennel name Arcane - does Arcane not do clearances?? Or, are all their hip and elbow clearances done with OVC and are therefore not listed on OFA? Just because the information is not on OFA does not mean the dogs do not have full clearances.


If you look at Heather's webpage, and at k9data.com, you will see that she is Canadian and yes, her clearances are OVC.

I think that when people are looking at US-based breeders, they should expect to see OFA clearances for hips and elbows, with PennHip as an extra as well for some breeders.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

I am sure Heather will be on soon. Although, I am pretty sure I know how she runs her program. I will not speak for her, I am sure she will address your concern with the answer I am predicting. I speak for me when I say I don't have all my clearences listed on OFA. My eye clearence states it is overdue done Oct 2006. Was I at the Sept 2007 you bet and did she pass you bet. Also my heart is not listed on OFA only because I never got around to paying the few dollars and sending it in. OFA alot of the time does not list OVC. OVC is still done by a BCR just like OFA. Just becasue they are not there does not mean they don't exist. I cannot stress enough the potential clients contact the Breeder they are interested in and get "filled in". Most people will be perfectly happy to help you and answer you questions. If they are not you may want to look for anothe Breeder anyways.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Ash said:


> I am sure Heather will be on soon. Although, I am pretty sure I know how she runs her program. I will not speak for her, I am sure she will address your concern with the answer I am predicting. I speak for me when I say I don't have all my clearences listed on OFA. My eye clearence states it is overdue done Oct 2006. Was I at the Sept 2007 you bet and did she pass you bet. Also my heart is not listed on OFA only because I never got around to paying the few dollars and sending it in. OFA alot of the time does not list OVC. OVC is still done by a BCR just like OFA. Just becasue they are not there does not mean they don't exist. I cannot stress enought the potential clients contact the Breeder they are interested in and get "filled in". Most people will be perfectly happy to help you and answer you questions. If they are not you may want to look for anothe Breeder anyways.


And that is absolutely the point. When asked, or, even before being asked, breeders who have in fact done the clearances do not hedge in making them available for a potential buyer to see.
And I am sorry, but saying "just because they aren't listed doesn't mean they don't exist" is a mantra that we all heard over and over again from a now banned Forum member. Look where that got puppy buyers.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Can you help me with the abbreviations?

OFA
OVC
BCR

??


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

OFA - Orthopedic Foundation for Animals - USA based
OVC - Ontario Veterinary College - Canada based
BCR - Board Certified Radioligist, BCO - Board Certified Opthamoligist with a BCC - Cardioligist etc.

Hope that helps!


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Thank you, Ash!!

And what exactly are the clearances that all serious buyers should ask for?


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> Who cares who the new members are or where they come from, they ask valid questions. Why not just answer them?





Jo Ellen said:


> Can you help me with the abbreviations?
> 
> OFA
> OVC
> ...


OFA - Orthopedic Foundation for Animals
OVC - Ontario Veternarian College
BCR - ? 
BVA - British Veternarian Association


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## Jazz & Jules (Feb 25, 2007)

How often should these heart, eye, hip and elbow clearences be done?

Is this something that should be done prior to each litter being born?

Or should it just be done so every so many years?


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

AmbikaGR said:


> Actually if either of the posts PG pointed to asked questions, they answered them themselves in their same posts.


I agree. That and none of us can speak for Heather. All we can do is give information based on our own buissness.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Jazz & Jules said:


> How often should these heart, eye, hip and elbow clearences be done?
> 
> Is this something that should be done prior to each litter being born?
> 
> Or should it just be done so every so many years?


Hip ans Elbows only need to be done once. After the age of 2 years.
Heart also once usually after 12 months.
Eyes should be done once a year (usually before a litter) is my prefrence.


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## Jazz & Jules (Feb 25, 2007)

Ash said:


> Hip ans Elbows only need to be done once. After the age of 2 years.
> Heart also once usually after 12 months.
> Eyes should be done once a year (usually before a litter) is my prefrence.




Thank You!!!!! There has been a ton of valuable information on this thread! 

Many Thanks to everyone for sharing!


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Actually ages for clearances vary by registry and home country of parent Golden Club.
OFA is two years of age for final hips and elbows but OVC is 18 months and PennHip is basicaly any age. Not sure what BVA is.
As for the parent clubs "code of ethics" GRCA recomends not breeding before 2 years of age and if I remember right GRCC is 16 months. (I know someone will correct me if I am incorrect.) Also need to understand that these "code of ethics" are not mandatory but recomendations.
Please do not interpret these statements as "my" beliefs, but rather statements of fact as I understand them.


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## goldbrador (Nov 9, 2007)

As far as I know, the GRCC says not before 18 months. The gist of my post is that many of you appear to imply that if clearances are not listed on OFA, then they do not exist. Many of us Canadian breeders do not use OFA and therefore do not have our clearances posted there. As far as automatically sending scanned copies of clearances to every puppy inquiry, I would think that most breeders have lives beside breeding and do not have the time to do this with every single inquiry. Many inquiries go no further than the initial inquiry and once the price is stated, you never hear from them again. When a prospective adopter comes to visit our home, they are shown the clearances for our breeding dogs and copies are included in each puppy booklet that goes home with the puppy.
I am not Breezyknoll and do not personally know Breezyknoll but do get very upset at the "tone" of some of the posts. For some reason, several "nasty" comments have been made about Breezyknoll - one comment regarding how quickly they have accumulated dogs - their website says they have been breeding since 1995 - that's 13 years! That would not indicate to me that they have just started breeding. 
Off my soapbox now, please just make sure you have all your facts straight before you throw a shadow of doubt on another breeder.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

goldbrador said:


> As far as I know, the GRCC says not before 18 months. The gist of my post is that many of you appear to imply that if clearances are not listed on OFA, then they do not exist. Many of us Canadian breeders do not use OFA and therefore do not have our clearances posted there. As far as automatically sending scanned copies of clearances to every puppy inquiry, I would think that most breeders have lives beside breeding and do not have the time to do this with every single inquiry. Many inquiries go no further than the initial inquiry and once the price is stated, you never hear from them again. When a prospective adopter comes to visit our home, they are shown the clearances for our breeding dogs and copies are included in each puppy booklet that goes home with the puppy.
> I am not Breezyknoll and do not personally know Breezyknoll but do get very upset at the "tone" of some of the posts. For some reason, several "nasty" comments have been made about Breezyknoll - one comment regarding how quickly they have accumulated dogs - their website says they have been breeding since 1995 - that's 13 years! That would not indicate to me that they have just started breeding.
> Off my soapbox now, please just make sure you have all your facts straight before you throw a shadow of doubt on another breeder.


 
I have not seen any "nasty" comments. Simply people questioning why the breeder has refused to show clearances. And advice to puppy buyers as to what to look for. It is only smart to be able to see them before making a decision to purchase a dog from a breeder. And the fact that not all clearances are in OFA has also been discussed, but again, asking to see them is not unreasonable.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

wow hello...sorry i missed all the fun I was out for a wonderful ride with my daughter and her girlfriend ...the horses are happy, my feet are frozen and my A** may never be the same!!!!!!!! lol

Yes I do do mostly all OVC clearances (Hips/elbows) on my dogs and yes they are certified hearts by a cardiologist and eyes are cleared yearly by a canine opthalmologist...do I submit to OFA, sadly NO I have not to date (bad me!!!) ...I have clearance INFO on all my dogs and would gladly share with any inquiries...I have nothing to hide...funny how this thread has suddenly been turned around on me! oh well the way i see it...if I am being the one talked about they are leaving someone else alone!!!! I have had a great day and it would take alot to bring me down !!!


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

I thought thats what you would say Heather. Sorry about your frozen a** I know the feeling LMAO.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

there are 2 or 3 Arcane dogs at OFA thus far..i didn't breed them but bought them
St. Andrew's Sock It to Me 
Acaciagold Arcanes Show Off 
& Turngold N' Arcane Katz Meow

a bit of info ..a few years back I did refuse to sell Breezyknoll a breeding prospect puppy, so is this a case of sour grapes???? hmmmmmmm????

cheers....I think I'm thawing out slowly!


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Ash said:


> I thought thats what you would say Heather. Sorry about your frozen a** I know the feeling LMAO.


my A** isn't frozen!!! my dang daughter wouldn't stop cantering her boy!  so my witchy mare Just HAS to follow!!!!!  her name is Calamity Jane!!! so that should clarify for ALL!!!!!


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## goldbrador (Nov 9, 2007)

No Heather, it is not a case of sour grapes. It is a case of people bashing another kennel and not necessarily knowing the whole story. Your kennel name was used as an example of a Canadian breeder not using OFA but still having the necessary clearances. MANY posts have been made, in several different threads, stating that buyers should look at OFA and if the clearances are not listed there, to go elsewhere to get the puppy. OFA is not the only registry available.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

goldbrador said:


> No Heather, it is not a case of sour grapes. It is a case of people bashing another kennel and not necessarily knowing the whole story.


I have never said one thing negative about Breezyknoll ...only stating she should gladly provide clearance info/copies when asked....I do however know you are trashing me for some unknown reason...who ever you may be....


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

goldbrador said:


> No Heather, it is not a case of sour grapes. It is a case of people bashing another kennel and not necessarily knowing the whole story.


*I do not make it a habit to bash anyone as I have been subjected to much of the same by a local who once was my friend and I helped out on more than one occasion...I will not share the kennel name of this person as *I* don't make it a practice to stoop to her level....do onto others as you would like them to do onto you....but I am not the only one that has been subjected to her ill will....many reputables that have been in Goldens much longer than I...*


Your kennel name was used as an example of a Canadian breeder not using OFA but still having the necessary clearances. 

*funny how me of all canadian breeders was used as the example ...In any of my response posts I have stated exactly what you have stated above...just b/c the clearance info isn't posted, It does not mean it doesn't exist....just ask for it....and as I stated, once you visit for an interview, the copies should be gladly shared...I know all too well about inquiries that waste precious time ....reading back over this thread I believe "that is what I told the original poster to do" *


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## Ambertru (Sep 21, 2007)

goldbrador said:


> No Heather, it is not a case of sour grapes. It is a case of people bashing another kennel and not necessarily knowing the whole story. Your kennel name was used as an example of a Canadian breeder not using OFA but still having the necessary clearances. MANY posts have been made, in several different threads, stating that buyers should look at OFA and if the clearances are not listed there, to go elsewhere to get the puppy. OFA is not the only registry available.


I'm pretty sure Heather hasn't bashed anyone from what I've read. My take on your posts is that you have singled Heather out to attack her. I'm curious as to why you would single her out?

Just for the record, Anyone with a litter can be called a breeder. Some have fancy websites and lots of window dressings but if you visited it would be somewhat disappointing. Which is exactly why I earlier suggested a visit to the breeders kennel. Any good breeder welcomes you into their home and will gladly share copies of all clearances and more. We all have clearances from different registries, some posted, some not. Some of us show in coformation to prove our breeding stock, others compete in field or obedience and others just buy into titles and never do a thing but pump out puppies. We are all still breeders. It is up to the buyer to determine who they want to deal with and that's a hard thing to do by email.
Forgive me, but these so called breeders who don't compete because they only breed for pets in a cop-out! It's just a nice way of saying they are only doing it for the money.

:uhoh:


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I for one forget that many people looking for info are not in the states. This thread will certainly help me to remember from now on.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Well Kimm thats typical isn't it - I am kidding LOL

Yes, there are diffrences between here and the US

I think the rule of thumb is if you don't know just ask. Ask in a poilte manner and you will probably get a polite response. Look for someone who is honest. Just because you can't see them does not mean they are not there.


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## JoVonD (Dec 31, 2007)

I just want to apologize, I didn't expect this thread to get out of hand like this. I'm not trying to give Breezyknoll a bad name or 'bash' them. All I wanted was to see other people's opinions on them as a breeder and if anyone here has purchased from them. I didn't expect things to turn out like this and I'm sorry to those who were offended. 
It was not my intention to offend anyone or breeders, I was just looking for information. Again, I'm really sorry for all the trouble this has caused.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Ash said:


> Well Kimm thats typical isn't it - I am kidding LOL


:doh:Sometimes for me it is. I have the same problem in work. I work on a campus with people from around the world and many of the people I work with laugh when I say, "I always think we are one big happy world..." I forget people have accents, they are short and tall, have different beliefs and so on...:doh: With somewhere around 8000 of us, you would think I would remember that...:uhoh:

I hope I haven't offended anyone. I'm just open to everyone and think we are all the same!


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

JoVonD said:


> I just want to apologize, I didn't expect this thread to get out of hand like this. I'm not trying to give Breezyknoll a bad name or 'bash' them.


you have nothing to apologize for ....you asked questions, which were answered, Unless I am reading another language NO ONE was bashed here, there is some concern over new members that seem to have an issue with me, however if they have any questions or matters to discuss I would be very happy to take them privately which would be the "mature" thing to do.


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## PeanutsMom (Oct 14, 2007)

JoVonD said:


> I just want to apologize, I didn't expect this thread to get out of hand like this. I'm not trying to give Breezyknoll a bad name or 'bash' them. All I wanted was to see other people's opinions on them as a breeder and if anyone here has purchased from them. I didn't expect things to turn out like this and I'm sorry to those who were offended.
> It was not my intention to offend anyone or breeders, I was just looking for information. Again, I'm really sorry for all the trouble this has caused.


Not your fault at all. People ask about breeders all the time. I hope some of the responses have been helpful


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

NO Kimm, I was totally joking. I don't think you offended anyone at all. I think you have a great outlook and I wish more people were like that. Again, it was a total joke not intended as anything else. Again, sorry if I threw you off but I did not mean it like that at all.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

JoVonD said:


> It was not my intention to offend anyone or breeders, I was just looking for information. Again, I'm really sorry for all the trouble this has caused.


 
I don't think you have any reason to be sorry. You asked a question got some information and answers. Better safe then sorry, right? This is nothing compared to other "trouble threads". No worries at all .


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Ash said:


> NO I was totally joking. I don't think you offended anyone at all. I think you have a great outlook and I wish more people were like that. Again, it was a total joke not intended as anything else.


No worries! I have relatives in Canada. Someday I'll find out exactly where...


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

JoVonD,

What you are looking for when searching for a breeder is someone who is up front and honest with you in answering your questions. 

All breeding animals should be screened for health issues and possess health certifications relative to specific breed and country of origin. When people respond to questions on the web, they sometimes forget that the person they're communicating with may not be next door, but on the other side of the planet. Different countries have differing rules, regulations and customs regarding dogs and dog breeding. 

In the U.S. I would expect a breeder to have completed at least the minumum requirements listed in the GRCA Code of Ethics, prior to breeding a dog. But keep in mind, each country has its' own rules, GRCC in Canada, The Kennel Club in the U.K., etc. 

Because there are variations from country to country you have to exercise good judgement in making evaluations. While there are many similarities there are also differences weigh and consider. For example, the minimum breeding age. Here in the U.S., the custom for Goldens in now 24 months, but that is not the case for the rest of the world. 

You really need to take the time to sit down and think about what traits and qualities YOU want in a dog so you can be prepared to discuss them with prospective breeders and develop a feeling about how well their breeding goals and aspirations compare with yours. Remember, the Breeder is making decisions based upon what THEY like in a dog. If your favored traits and qualities differ significantly from the breeders, you're better off looking elsewhere for a puppy.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

just as an aside, has anyone noticed there is a brand new member named BreezyKnoll?


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Yes, I have noticed. Maybe she will be able to clear up our confusion and confirm whats going on here clearence wise.


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## Breezyknoll (Jan 27, 2008)

Hello Everyone - Well, well, well - sure is nice to be so popular and be chatted about... It was also nice though that some folks thought enough to bring this thread to my attention so I could now join in your conversation as I don't take part in chatlines normally - the comment made by one poster of me being on already before was incorrect as well. Unfortunately, it's too bad that you didn't all know the whole story though, and made for a difficult situation for those involved. Guess we all learn from our experiences. A phone call which I just made to the family of the initial poster (17 year old daughter) to personally clarify for these comments being posted explained the reasoning for this in which obviously could have cleared this situation well before all the comments started on this thread and of her posting this and thus in-turn having people making possible assumptions in their minds and replys about someone or a certain situation that they didn't really know all the facts about (of not supplying information when indeed it had been sent). Glad that this is now cleared up with that family. Also, thanks to goldbrador, and the others who have spoken/posted with the nice comments about us, whoever you are when I wasn't even a member till now to voice my own opinion about the situation. For all of you who have chatted here on this thread, our door is open and we provide the invitation to each of you to visit us and our dogs if interested and of course we will openingly show/provide you with all our paperwork and clearances as a reputable breeder does... Yes, that is also correct that we have been breeding and enjoying having Goldens in our lives since 1995 (13 years). No other breed in our mind can beat the love and companionship that a Golden provides us...
Breezyknoll


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Welcome BreezyKnoll!


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

good to know that you worked out any discrepencies with the original poster, and welcome to the forum.


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## Breezyknoll (Jan 27, 2008)

Hello Everyone - Well, well, well - sure is nice to be so popular and be chatted about... It was also nice though that some folks thought enough to bring this thread to my attention so I could now join in your conversation as I don't take part in chatlines normally - the comment made by one poster of me being on already before was incorrect as well. Unfortunately, it's too bad that you didn't all know the whole story though, and made for a difficult situation for those involved. Guess we all learn from our experiences. A phone call which I just made to the family of the initial poster (17 year old daughter) to personally clarify for these comments being posted explained the reasoning for this in which obviously could have cleared this situation well before all the comments started on this thread and of her posting this and thus in-turn having people making possible assumptions in their minds and replys about someone or a certain situation that they didn't really know all the facts about (of not supplying information when indeed it had been sent). Glad that this is now cleared up with that family. Also, thanks to goldbrador, and the others who have spoken/posted with the nice comments about us, whoever you are when I wasn't even a member till now to voice my own opinion about the situation. For all of you who have chatted here on this thread, our door is open and we provide the invitation to each of you to visit us and our dogs if interested and of course we will openingly show/provide you with all our paperwork and clearances as a reputable breeder does... Yes, that is also correct that we have been breeding and enjoying having Goldens in our lives since 1995 (13 years). No other breed in our mind can beat the love and companionship that a Golden provides us...
Breezyknoll


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Welcome to the forum. Glad you could clear up the mis-understanding.


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## Breezyknoll (Jan 27, 2008)

Thanks for the welcome and yes am glad we are clearer now. Gotta run and and tend to my two legged kids... Maybe get a chance to come back later.:wave:


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Breezyknoll said:


> Thanks for the welcome and yes am glad we are clearer now. Gotta run and and tend to my two legged kids... Maybe get a chance to come back later.:wave:


Welcome! Do come back!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Breezyknoll said:


> A phone call which I just made to the family of the initial poster (17 year old daughter) to personally clarify for these comments being posted explained the reasoning for this in which obviously could have cleared this situation well before all the comments started on this thread and of her posting this and thus in-turn having people making possible assumptions in their minds and replys about someone or a certain situation that they didn't really know all the facts about (of not supplying information when indeed it had been sent).


Would you mind breaking this sentence down so that it might be better understood, please? (Try reading it in one breath - whew!)

I also think that it needs to be made quite clear that this thread was relevant to ANY breeder - insert whatever kennel name you wish - as regards what a breeder should provide and what a potential buyer should expect. So, as much as some would like you to believe that this was all about you, or that you were being "bashed" (which you were not), it wasn't, and provided good, solid information for everyone.


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

I just wanted to pop in and say that I not only do clearances on Hips, Elbows, Heart and Eyes, but I also do patellas and thyroid. I will not breed a dog without passing all 6 clearances.

Becky


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## time4goldens (Mar 13, 2006)

Breezyknoll said:


> Hello Everyone - Well, well, well - sure is nice to be so popular and be chatted about... It was also nice though that some folks thought enough to bring this thread to my attention so I could now join in your conversation as I don't take part in chatlines normally - the comment made by one poster of me being on already before was incorrect as well. Unfortunately, it's too bad that you didn't all know the whole story though, and made for a difficult situation for those involved. Guess we all learn from our experiences. A phone call which I just made to the family of the initial poster (17 year old daughter) to personally clarify for these comments being posted explained the reasoning for this in which obviously could have cleared this situation well before all the comments started on this thread and of her posting this and thus in-turn having people making possible assumptions in their minds and replys about someone or a certain situation that they didn't really know all the facts about (of not supplying information when indeed it had been sent). Glad that this is now cleared up with that family. Also, thanks to goldbrador, and the others who have spoken/posted with the nice comments about us, whoever you are when I wasn't even a member till now to voice my own opinion about the situation. For all of you who have chatted here on this thread, our door is open and we provide the invitation to each of you to visit us and our dogs if interested and of course we will openingly show/provide you with all our paperwork and clearances as a reputable breeder does... Yes, that is also correct that we have been breeding and enjoying having Goldens in our lives since 1995 (13 years). No other breed in our mind can beat the love and companionship that a Golden provides us...
> Breezyknoll


Boy - I hope you know what you meant by all those run on sentences - I understood the 17year old better. Glad you are breeding dogs and not an English teacher.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Welcome to the forum Breezyknoll

Jazzys Mom


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Breezyknoll said:


> Well, well, well - sure is nice to be so popular and be chatted about... It was also nice though that some folks thought enough to bring this thread to my attention so I could now join in your conversation as I don't take part in chatlines normally
> 
> _*well hello Breezyknoll ....welcome...so happy that someone you don't know just happened to alert you to the forum and this thread so that you could clarify for all of us *
> _
> ...


_*Just out of curiosity how many Champions have you titled? or obedience prospects or performance dogs? I have been in the breed so to speak since 1989....breeding actively since 1994, as I thought education of the breed/competition/learning the ropes from respected long-time breeders was far more important my first 5 yrs than producing puppies....I look forward to you sharing your experiences and thoughts on the above  cheers:wave:
*_


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

Geesh, Im confused! I guess this is why I leave the breeding of these wonderful pups to all of you! Weird the "breezyknoll" signed her/his post "breezyknoll"...JMO!


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

What are the chances Breezyknoll and goldbrador are the same person, just a thought. But they both use the " - - - " button, which no one else uses?! Weird?! And they both use " ... " frequently? Sorry , just an observation!


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

arcane said:


> _*Just out of curiosity how many Champions have you titled? or obedience prospects or performance dogs? I have been in the breed so to speak since 1989....breeding actively since 1994, as I thought education of the breed/competition/learning the ropes from respected long-time breeders was far more important my first 5 yrs than producing puppies....I look forward to you sharing your experiences and thoughts on the above  cheers:wave:
> *_


Heather Heather I guess you wouldn;t have liked me for a breeder either.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

TheHooch said:


> Heather Heather I guess you wouldn;t have liked me for a breeder either.


now why would you say that Hooch? I do think that breeders should participate in some avenue to prove their dogs...however there are reputables that do offer much to the breed producing quality puppies from clear puppies bred to the standard. I guess we all have our comfort levels and opinions on what *we* want to have left as our legacy as guardians of this wonderful breed


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

What I sincerely hope is that an extremely responsible 17 YO, doing the proper homework in her quest for a golden, did not get chewed out by a breeder. I see a post from Breezyknoll implying that she called the family and cleared the matter up, but it is a vague post. I did see that the original poster posted an apology yesterday and I hope it was not because she received a call from an angry breeder. Any breeder should expect questions and should be willing to supply clearances if they have them and as much information as possible to prospective families. I read some comments from a few breeders here about people inquiring, having to take time to talk to these people and then never hearing from them again. Isn't that typical when it comes to sales? How many times have we shopped for cars, taken a salesman's time while we test drive cars, haggle over prices and then walk away? Whenever somebody is spending a significant amount of money and especially when making a commitment to, hopefully, a long term relationship with a family pet, shouldn't they contact several breeders, ask many questions, want to see the parents, the kennels, know the pedigrees and see the clearances. I didn't see any specific bashing of Breezyknoll, what I saw here was people telling a young lady that if she feels uncomfortable with a breeder, if the breeder isn't providing information on clearances, then go somewhere else. Pointgold was correct, it could have been any breeder name that was mentioned. Breezyknoll, if you had provided clearances to the young lady upon request, you wouldn't have been in this thread at all. The original poster had every right to ask questions about your kennel before putting down a deposit. 

Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


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## Ambertru (Sep 21, 2007)

arcane said:


> _*Just out of curiosity how many Champions have you titled? or obedience prospects or performance dogs? I have been in the breed so to speak since 1989....breeding actively since 1994, as I thought education of the breed/competition/learning the ropes from respected long-time breeders was far more important my first 5 yrs than producing puppies....I look forward to you sharing your experiences and thoughts on the above  cheers:wave:*_


I think it's very important that a responsible breeder be constantly learning. Competing in any venue, whether you win or lose offers opportunites to watch the dogs that are winning, speak to seasoned breeders and evaluate your own breeding program. There are some dogs that are valuable to a breeding program without titles (either they have a fault or just don't enjoy it) but personally, I don't think that someone who doesn't compete because they "don't have the time" or "it's all political" or "white dogs don't get put up in the US" can objectively determine that. Nor can they say they are breeding "for the betterment of the breed" because frankly, if they never leave their back yard, how would they know? 
So, a question for those who do have a kennel full of untitled dogs (or one for that matter)... why do you breed? Leave clearances out of the equation because any dog that is registered and somewhat resembles a golden can get clearances.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Phoebe said:


> I read some comments from a few breeders here about people inquiring, having to take time to talk to these people and then never hearing from them again. Isn't that typical when it comes to sales?
> 
> shouldn't they contact several breeders, ask many questions, want to see the parents, the kennels, know the pedigrees and see the clearances.
> 
> Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


Yes this is very common when folks are shopping for a new furrkid, I actually encourage this (although not on the same day!!) Some people may click better with one breeder over another, one breeder may raise pups in slightly different ways, kennels vs in home, this is not saying one way is better than the other. But I think a good relationship between purchaser and breeder is one of the most important things in your quest for a quality puppy.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

arcane said:


> Yes this is very common when folks are shopping for a new furrkid, I actually encourage this (although not on the same day!!) Some people may click better with one breeder over another, one breeder may raise pups in slightly different ways, kennels vs in home, this is not saying one way is better than the other. But I think a good relationship between purchaser and breeder is one of the most important things in your quest for a quality puppy.


Unfortunately, I have also been hearing about potential puppy buyers contacting breeders who never reply to them. Certainly, a possibility is that emails were never received, but not repeatedly, and by many breeders. I am embarrassed as a breeder to think that my colleagues are so rude as to not follow up on inquiries. Particulary when it is obvious that the person is serious enough about purchasing a puppy to make several attempts. this gives all of us a bad name. Not only is it bad business, but just plain rude.


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## Nicole&Zack (Feb 27, 2007)

This is a very interesting Thread, since i am looking for a breeder as well. 
My breeder has all the clearances, and already e-mailed them to me.

Now, i have one question.
The Hips schould only be done once and thats it?
The eyes every year?


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Nicole&Zack said:


> This is a very interesting Thread, since i am looking for a breeder as well.
> My breeder has all the clearances, and already e-mailed them to me.
> 
> Now, i have one question.
> ...


It's my understanding that hips, elbows, and hearts are only done once. Eyes are done annually (although for cost, I would imagine some breeders may choose to only do it when they are planning to use the dog for a litter). If I'm wrong, at least my response will serve as a *bump* so that someone who knows better than I do can correct me!

Julie and Jersey


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Jersey's Mom said:


> It's my understanding that hips, elbows, and hearts are only done once. Eyes are done annually
> Julie and Jersey


you are correct;

Hips/Elbows after 18 mos for OVC (Canada) 24 mos for OFA (USA) Heart after 1yr of age for certification, eyes should be screened/cleared on an annual basis ...some breeders do prelims on young dogs prior to spending a great deal of money on a dog in regards to showing/competition but the above ages must be obtained for certification. Then there are some breeders who also clear for thyroid,patellas,VWD. It depends really on what your breed may be afflicted with. All breeds have their issues. Hope this helps


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## JoVonD (Dec 31, 2007)

Well, I thought I'd reply back in defence to myself. I still stand by my apology because I do feel really horrible about posting about Breezyknoll. It wasn't right, I realize that, but I was just doing what everyone else who joins the site looking into breeders does. I'm not the first here to ask about a breeder and I certainly won't be the last. I'm sorry that it has turned out this way, I didn't expect the response to my first post and I didn't expect for anything bad to be said about the breeding practices of Breezyknoll. It was ignorant on my part to jump into getting a breeder before really looking into it, which I did after the fact and I regret that. It's our first time buying a dog from a breeder so forgive me for not knowing the in's and out's of it. 
Breezyknoll is a very nice person, I thought she was very informative and great. Unfortunately, the whole clearance incident threw us off. I just hope no one gets the impression that they were bad breeders, they just weren't right for us. In the end it is a business and I just hope Breezyknoll understands that and can look past this.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

how can you say it wasn't right to ask questions about a breeder you are considering!?!? of course it's right! that's what this forum is here for! its a great source of information and help for anyone looking for any help regarding their puppy, or getting a new pup.... anytime you need help with anything, please dont hesitate to ask the people here who are a wealth of knowledge about this breed. no question is a stupid or wrong question.



JoVonD said:


> Well, I thought I'd reply back in defence to myself. I still stand by my apology because I do feel really horrible about posting about Breezyknoll. It wasn't right, I realize that, but I was just doing what everyone else who joins the site looking into breeders does. I'm not the first here to ask about a breeder and I certainly won't be the last. I'm sorry that it has turned out this way, I didn't expect the response to my first post and I didn't expect for anything bad to be said about the breeding practices of Breezyknoll. It was ignorant on my part to jump into getting a breeder before really looking into it, which I did after the fact and I regret that. It's our first time buying a dog from a breeder so forgive me for not knowing the in's and out's of it.
> Breezyknoll is a very nice person, I thought she was very informative and great. Unfortunately, the whole clearance incident threw us off. I just hope no one gets the impression that they were bad breeders, they just weren't right for us. In the end it is a business and I just hope Breezyknoll understands that and can look past this.


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

missmarstar said:


> how can you say it wasn't right to ask questions about a breeder you are considering!?!? of course it's right! that's what this forum is here for! its a great source of information and help for anyone looking for any help regarding their puppy, or getting a new pup.... anytime you need help with anything, please dont hesitate to ask the people here who are a wealth of knowledge about this breed. no question is a stupid or wrong question.


I agree, any breeder should understand people asking about experiences with them. I definitely would understand if someone came on the forum asking about me as a breeder.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

You have nothing to apologize for. You were being a smart consumer. Whether on this forum or not, ANYone purchasing a puppy should do their homework and requesting clearances is part of that. It just so happens that this forum reaches a lot of people, so is an excellent resource. I stand by my belief that Breezyknoll was in no way "bashed". You were absolutely within your rights (and smart) to pose your questions here, whether it was about Breezyknoll or any other breeder. MANY breeders are mentioned here and references requested/advice asked. I do not recall any of the rest of them coming to the forum and complaining about it (other than one who has since been banned). PLEASE do not feel badly, and I surely hope that none of the parties involved have done or said anything that would make you feel that you've done something wrong. You have not. Nor has anyone replying to your questions or participating in this thread. A breeder who puts themselves out there - internet or any other venue for advertising dogs for sale - should full well realize that they are opening themselves up for scrutiny. And if everything is being done "right", that should present no problem for them. Intimidation is not something that anyone in business should resort to.





JoVonD said:


> Well, I thought I'd reply back in defence to myself. I still stand by my apology because I do feel really horrible about posting about Breezyknoll. It wasn't right, I realize that, but I was just doing what everyone else who joins the site looking into breeders does. I'm not the first here to ask about a breeder and I certainly won't be the last. I'm sorry that it has turned out this way, I didn't expect the response to my first post and I didn't expect for anything bad to be said about the breeding practices of Breezyknoll. It was ignorant on my part to jump into getting a breeder before really looking into it, which I did after the fact and I regret that. It's our first time buying a dog from a breeder so forgive me for not knowing the in's and out's of it.
> Breezyknoll is a very nice person, I thought she was very informative and great. Unfortunately, the whole clearance incident threw us off. I just hope no one gets the impression that they were bad breeders, they just weren't right for us. In the end it is a business and I just hope Breezyknoll understands that and can look past this.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> I am embarrassed as a breeder to think that my colleagues are so rude as to not follow up on inquiries. Particulary when it is obvious that the person is serious enough about purchasing a puppy to make several attempts. this gives all of us a bad name. Not only is it bad business, but just plain rude.


I totally agree with this 110%

We say only buy from a reputable Breeder and whole speech about and it then those who say it behave like this.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Nicole&Zack said:


> This is a very interesting Thread, since i am looking for a breeder as well.
> My breeder has all the clearances, and already e-mailed them to me.
> 
> Now, i have one question.
> ...


This question was answered a few pages ago. Just read back it will be there.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

JoVonD

You have nothing to apologize for. You were only doing your homework researching breeders to get the best possible puppy! This is what you are SUPPOSED to do and if a breeder has a problem with it then that would be a breeder I would not want to go to. Jazzy's breeder has been mentioned on this forum several times and I know they have no problem with mentioning them. Upstanding breeders with nothing to hide don't have a problem with that.

Jazzys Mom


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

I still seem to think this whole thread is awkward...seems as though Im the only one who thinks so?


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

No I don't think its awkward I think its been educational. BTW, Jo VonD, nothing to be sorry. You are asking questions and learning (hopefully). You are buying smart and there is NOTHING wrong with that at all. You are trying to support Breeders that deserve to be supported. Everything is fine, no worries at all.


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

Ash said:


> No I don't think its awkward I think its been educational. BTW, Jo VonD, nothing to be sorry. You are asking questions and learning (hopefully). You are buying smart and there is NOTHING wrong with that at all. You are trying to support Breeders that deserve to be supported. Everything is fine, no worries at all.


It is indeed a very educational thread.

Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

BTW, OVC is Canadian based but American Breeders/Owners can send x-rays to OVC the same way Canadians may send to OFA which is American based. For those of you that did not know.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

lovealways_jami said:


> I still seem to think this whole thread is awkward...seems as though Im the only one who thinks so?


I understand ...I feel it is "awkward" in that there has appeared to perhaps be some underlying agendas that are uncomfortable for those not privvy to the inside stories. However, I think a good job has been done of keeping this about education and not allowing the attempts at undermining individuals to go any further. I've learned much.


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