# Boomer just bit me



## slechner (Sep 5, 2008)

Boomer was just outside lying in a muddy area digging I went behind him and told him to stop. When he didn't I grabbed his collar and tried to gently pull him away. He suddenly growled and bit my finger. My finger really hurts and is bleeding but don't think I need stitches. How should I handle this?


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## honeysmum (Dec 4, 2007)

Hope you get some suggestions bumping up.


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## K9Lover (May 6, 2009)

I am NO DOG TRAINER.

I have learned that many times my biter, Lenny, lunged at me because I did the wrong thing. I would never grab his collar.

Hope someone with expertise can guide you.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

How old is Boomer? I am worried about this. Did he growl and bite seriously? You need someone like Quiz to help you. I have never experienced this with a youngster.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Maybe he was so enthralled in his digging, he lost his senses for a moment? I'm not expert either but I do know that digging can be a very high-intensity, high-focus kind of activity. To this day, it's one of the few things that will still send my 8-year old golden into the zoomies.


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## slechner (Sep 5, 2008)

Boomer is one year old. He has always been mouthy but he has never bitten me before.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I just went back and read some of your early posts, and it seems as though Boomer is over a year old? That is a serious problem. Is he now neutered? A grown up dog biting and drawing blood is a serious matter, and I am so sorry this happened. I still don't have any experienced advice, but I don't blame you for being beside yourself.


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## slechner (Sep 5, 2008)

Boomer turned one year old on April 26th so he will be 13 months on May 26th. We had him neutered at the end of March.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Was it a bratty thing or a scary thing?


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I agree with LJilly, this is serious. You say he is mouthy, but has her ever growled at you over objects or your grabbing his collar?

For now, I would keep a drag-line on him, so if you have to move him you will be further away from his mouth. Also, rather than grabbing his collar when you want to move him, call him to you. If he is doing something like digging and he won't come to you, push him with your body, bump him away moving your body between him and the thing you want him away from. Do these things in a non-confrontational matter-of-fact way. This is not the final solution, but it will help prevent you from being bitten until you can solve the problem.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Have you done any formal training with this dog? A dog that is biting, particularly at over a year old (as opposed to puppy mouthiness) is a serious issue. Excuses must not be made for him. Sorry, but I don't care how focused or intent he was on an activity - you verbally toild him to stop first, so it's not as if you simply grabbed him without warning. And yes, "dogs will be dogs", but this is incorrect temperament for a Golden. You need the help of a competent trainer/behaviorist.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Incorrect temperament for any dog, really.

My thoughts: If you know he's a digger, first line of defense is to manage his environment and lifestyle so that he can't practice doing the wrong thing. IMO, dogs learn better by being rewarded for being correct vs. reprimanded for doing it wrong.

Keep him leashed for now - even if just a short 3 footer that he drags, then if needed, you can redirect him away from trouble with the leash rather than the collar.

You can also work on some collar-grabbing exercises. Find a trainer who can help you. A good obedience class is a great start. If you've seen ANY other signs of potential aggression, then find a good trainer and set up a private lesson. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch in my mind for this dog to have the potential to guard prizes, etc.


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## slechner (Sep 5, 2008)

He growled at me a long time ago when I patted him while he was eating. I took the advice of the one of the people on the forum and separated his food into a muffin tin and now he sits down and waits until I give him the word to eat. I can even go make a pot a coffee across the room and he won't move unti I give him the green light. I can also pat him when he eats with no problem. I have sent an e-mail to my contact at Bark Busters to see what he suggests. All along, I have taken my role as Boomer's owner very seriously because my cocker spaniel died a year ago Februar at the age of six from a twisted stomach. I had such a hard time dealing with his death that I welcomed having a new puppy to spoil from the word go. I took him to puppy socialization classes and level one training which he did well at.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Am I correct in remembering that he bit your husband once when he lunged at a child who woke him up? If that is correct than I would suggest that you prioritize a professional. It is a serious thing especially if you have youngsters in the home or who may visit.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

I can't believe this all just suddenly happened out of the clear blue... so how long has the problem of growling and snapping been going on for? I'm sure there's more background story here somewhere... anything you can recall about Boomer's past behavior that showed a similar tendency to warn or bite?
BTW, I would NOT attempt to grab him by the collar again until you've identified the root source of the problem and have a plan to deal with it. However for the time being, if you need to get Boomer away from something, you are safer using your lower body to step into his space (small gradual steps)... if you think he might be capable of biting your leg then use a 'tool' of some sort, like a rake, a broom, or tennis racket to move into his space instead of your body. In any case, seek help from a professional in your area who will be able to actually physically observe and assess Boomer's behavior. This kind of stuff is really hard to diagnose from a remote location, like over the Internet... and the problem sounds serious enough that you should pay someone who can actually observe you and your dog together and get all the background info needed to 'guide' you to a sensible solution.


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## jnmarr (Mar 7, 2008)

Great advice! I would add.. hand feed him for a while.. Start the Nothing In Life Is Free Training.. http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/nothingfree.htm 
He gets NOTHING unless he does something for you.. sit, wait, etc. 

Don't allow him on the furniture for now. You go through openings before him, eat before him and he moves for you to pass. 

Be positive, happy and gently firm. Seek a professional so this doesn't get worse. Wishing you all the best.


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## Noey (Feb 26, 2009)

what was his reaction to biting you. Was he guilty, protective of the hole, concerned? I know when Noah gets he is wrong he goes into "sorry" mode. Low waggle, tail lowered, I'm so sorry I'm going to kiss you until I'm forgiven phase. 

If he showed no sign of doing something wrong to a raised voice...that is a problem. So I'm wondering what he did after he bit you.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Maybe I expect too much but I have a real problem with "not grabbing the dog by his collar". I am able to grab my dogs by anything collar, scruff, ear, muzzle, for pete sakes the tail with NO snapping, growling, not so much as a turn of the head. You have got some good advice from PG and FQ. He needs a good swift correction, thats NOT acceptable. I hope you are able to find a reputable trainer in your area. Ask around and get refrences be sure they are able to help you deal with a situation like this. Good luck.


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## slechner (Sep 5, 2008)

Thanks to everyone for your advice. I have an e-mail into Bark Busters who have come two or three times before. Yes, Boomer bit my husband Christmas Day when my 8 year old nephew jumped on him while he was sleeping. He hasn't bit anyone since until today but he is very mouthy and nips and gets the zoomies. As to how he reacted afterwards, he did appear to know he had done something wrong but to be honest, I immediately went into the house to try to get my finger to stop bleeding and I got my husband up (who is on nights). We put the muzzle on Boomer and he fell asleep (Boomer) shortly afterwards. Anyway, I have an e-mail into Bark Busters, so hopefully he can come as soon as possible to assess the problem. As I have said several times, this is really worrisome for me since my cocker spaniel died a year ago from a twisted stomach. He was only six and the love of my life. I had a hard time dealing with the grief since he died three days after getting sick and I can't bear to think about having to give my gr up despite what he did to me. We don't have small children, we have teenagers and he doesn't mess with them as my one son is six feet tall with a deep voice. Anyway, please pray for us. This is very difficult.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Many prayers from our house that a behaviorist can help him become the dog you believe he can be. Hugs to you and your family... I know this has to be so hard.


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## Doodle (Apr 6, 2009)

I am so sorry for your predicament. I have no advice for you since I have not dealt with this, but I'm sure I would be sick if I were in your shoes. I hope you're able to get some professional help to correct this.


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## jlc's mom (Dec 21, 2007)

No advice but I wish you the best of luck.


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## Fennway (Mar 16, 2009)

Very sorry to hear of your bite, however I completely know how you feel. We have a 4 month old who bites aggressively when discontent (and its not puppy play)! I wish I had some advice for you, besides moving him with your body next time..I sincerely wish you all the best


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

I am so troubled with posts like this. I think you can find a reason for an incident like this, but there should never be an excuse. Quite clearly this dog has a problem. Needs a good behaviorist to step in and help the owner deal with it. Quickly, firmly, before something tragic happens. Perhaps a vet visit to rule out a physical problem. I have a friend who has an almost 3 year old male intact golden, well bred, sire is a well known show dog, the dog has growled at his owner and others for various things, such as trying to bolt out of the ring and being reached at to stop him, for his owner trying to leash. Sorry but in my world this would have never reached this point. She has made constant excuses for him since as a puppy he displayed many warning signs. This type of behavior in this particular dog and in so many others that I have read in this forum is not acceptable nor is it in the standard of our golden retrievers. It makes me wonder at times what is going on in our breed. You should be able to grab the collar or scruff or tail of our dogs and not be afraid of being bit. You should be able to reach into their food bowl without the same fear. You should be able to allow small children crawling among the dogs and not be afraid for them. To me temperament is the hallmark of the golden retriever. Without that what do we have. A beautiful 70 pound terror who snaps and bites and growls. Not an animal I want in my house. Maybe I've been lucky, but as I am looking at my four large hairy creatures in the past ten years not one of them has ever looked at me cross eyed. Cause if they did the alpha female would have come down on them with the wrath of god.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I totally agree with my4goldens. Get professional help NOW. You said you have a call in to Bark Busters, since you've dealt with them before...but you still have the problem, so it might be time to try a different behavioral trainer. 
There is NO excuse for a golden (or any dog) biting like this. Lots of "reasons", like she said, but no excuse. Please get help before someone gets very seriously injured.


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## slechner (Sep 5, 2008)

I could try another behaviourist but getting frustrated as we paid for puppy socialization, training lessons and $500 for Bark Busters. I just took him for a huge walk which I am going to try to do for longer every day. I appreciate all the positive feedback but hope the one reader does not think we are ignoring this behaviour at all. We take it very seriously. He is a pure bred from a breeder with a great reputation but I think perhaps the vet may wish to give his opinion re any other potential issues. I also bought this particular breed because my aunt and uncle have had two retrievers and they are angels. I think dogs can be like people, no two are the same. Also, when I was a teenager I was attacked by a afghan hound and was afraid of big dogs for years. Ironically, it was my cousin's golden retriever who got me over my fear of big dogs. If you have a well behaved retriever, I am very happy for you and we are doing everything we can to fix our problem.


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## Thor0918 (Feb 28, 2008)

I don't know if this would help but, my trainer said to put Leo in a down stay for 30 minutes. If he gotback up put him back down. I didn't really think it would do anything but, I was wrong. She said it would help to show him who was boss and it did. He's a very mouthy dog but, no biting.


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## Joanne & Asia (Jul 23, 2007)

I am so sorry you are going through this. I am no expert either but have dealt with Asia being aggressive with dogs(including biting one) but never toward people. The issue was dominance related so I really think the NILF method and firm corrections are the way to go. Down stays are a very submissive position and do wonders to reinforce who is the pack leader. Also keeping him off the furniture, walking through him rather than around him and the others already mentioned. It really worked wonders for us but Asia will subtly try to become leader if we don't constantly reinforce it. I really hope you are able to find a behaviorist who can help.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I wish I could give useful advice, but without seeing the dog's body language at the time of the bite, I'm afraid I can't be helpful. Coercive techniques that enforce "dominance" could really backfire if there's any fear in his reactions. Bratty biting is rarely hard enough to draw blood, so I'm inclined to think it's fear-based.

A bite like this could point to a basic temperament issue or to some factor we don't quite understand from what you've described so far.

Has he been on a painful collar like a prong, choke, or e-collar? I got bitten once by a dog whose family had misused an e-collar on him. His reaction was completely fear-based, so it was something we could work past with some time and TLC. It doesn't sound like that's the case here, but I'm grasping at straws a bit because I feel frustrated that I can't help more effectively.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I was one of the people who advised her NOT to grab him by the collar. That is for her own safety. I can grab either of my dogs by the collar and do and I think that with a dog with a stable temperament grabbing them by the collar is perfectly fine, but....

This dog has already shown that he will bite a person when they grab his collar. At this point, it makes no sense to grab him by the collar and get bitten again. Forcing a confrontation with the dog will only escalate the situation and end in one of two ways, the dog biting the human and the human letting go so the dog learns that aggression is the way to get what he wants or by the human getting into a physical altercation with the dog and winning and the dog fearing the human and knowing he has a reason to fear their human. Neither is a great outcome.

A human "should" be able to grab their dog by their collar without being bitten, however with this dog it isn't so. The dog needs training and a behaviorist, but for right now the human needs to be safe.


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## NapaValleyGolden (Mar 24, 2008)

I have no advice to offer, but will keep you and Boomer in my prayers.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

The one little piece of information that seemed very revealing is this
You owned a muzzle for Boomer.
That suggests that even before this incident, you thought and even expected that he might bite you or someone else.

This isn't mere mouthiness In My Very Humble Amateur Opinon. And I think you really do need to see a different/better behaviorist to figure out the root causes of this behavior because amateur dog psychology, especially advice from people who haven't seen him, could easily make this worse rather than better. 
If you do contact Bark Busters, stress the urgency of the situation, and that despite following their training advice, your dog bit you. They're likely to take it more seriously and hopefully send a supervisor or one of their best qualified trainers out to you. 

Good luck. I know you're feeling really upset, but channel that energy into finding a solution.

allen


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## Noey (Feb 26, 2009)

I agree with the above post and suggest getting a vet check. It is possible you might have an underlying health issue.

Why are you only placing the muzzle on him after her bites. You should have the muzzle on when he will be out and about to teach him not to bite. Right now it's on only after a bite? does he bite when you pull toys away from him?


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

Hoping all works out for you and Boomer.
Keep us updated.
Take care - we'll all be thinking of you.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I hope that Bark Busters will be able to help you and Boomer. It must be a hard and stressful time for you both. (((((HUGS))))


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## chrispassmore (May 21, 2009)

*Did you train?*

I am wondering how much you trained your dog to feel comfortable with someone grabbing his collar?

Especially when enthralled in digging, something grabbing him by the neck could cause him to snap back without thinking. 

So, solution: 
1) With a very tasty, delicious (preferably moist treat-- smells better), make him sit. 
2) Hold the treat in front of his nose and gently grab his collar, using the verbal cue "Got ya!". Then, reward. 

Continue to do this. He will associate collar grabbing with... oooh boy, I am going to get a reward! Eventually, work up to lead him around the house/yard by the collar with the treat in front of his nose. 

Eventually, you won't need the treat. Good luck.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

chrispassmore said:


> I am wondering how much you trained your dog to feel comfortable with someone grabbing his collar?
> 
> Especially when enthralled in digging, something grabbing him by the neck could cause him to snap back without thinking.
> 
> ...


I think this is good advice, and would probably work well & be helpful. BUT, it is nor the proper golden disposition to snap when his/her collar is grabbed, regardless of how enthralled with digging etc. We had a golden break his leg two miles into the wilderness. He let two teeenage boys he didnt know carry him out to the car to go to the Emergency vet. Absolutely no biting, growling- have never had a golden(in 9 goldens) growl at humans, never mind bite.


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## DCGolden (Jan 7, 2009)

I don't like seeing posts like this either...and I don't have much to say by way of any form of a professional opinion...But I do wish you, Boomer, and your family the best of luck and hope that you will be able to find a suitable trainer that can get to the root of the problem.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

_*You should be able to grab the collar or scruff or tail of our dogs and not be afraid of being bit. You should be able to reach into their food bowl without the same fear. You should be able to allow small children crawling among the dogs and not be afraid for them. To me temperament is the hallmark of the golden retriever. *_

The problem is, there's no temperament requirement in the breed ring! I agree that tempearment needs to be considered first and foremost, right up there with health. Perhaps dogs must pass a thorough temperament evaluation before they can earn a championship. I would love to see that happen!

[Not trying to hijack the thread!]

What's the current status of Boomer? Have you heard back from Barkbusters yet?


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> _*You should be able to grab the collar or scruff or tail of our dogs and not be afraid of being bit. You should be able to reach into their food bowl without the same fear. You should be able to allow small children crawling among the dogs and not be afraid for them. To me temperament is the hallmark of the golden retriever. *_
> 
> The problem is, there's no temperament requirement in the breed ring! I agree that tempearment needs to be considered first and foremost, right up there with health. Perhaps dogs must pass a thorough temperament evaluation before they can earn a championship. I would love to see that happen!
> 
> ...


 
Actually, there _is _a temperament "requirement" in the breed ring. Temperament of a dog exhibited is required to meet whatever the standard states for that breed. Additionally, The judges Rules and Guidelines clearly state:
* 
[R] Poorly Trained, Shy and Vicious Dogs 
*Excuse any dog that will not stand for examination; mark the judge’s book "Excused, unable to examine;" and initial the notation. 
Excuse any dog that in your opinion: 

Menaces
Threatens
Exhibits any sign that it may not be safely approached or examined in the normal manner.
Signs may include growling, showing or snapping its teeth, and rolling its eyes. Any dog that displays such demeanor is a threat to you and every judge that follows you. 

We both know that a dog with a lousy temperament can still be trained to make it through a conformation examination as well as obedience exercises, but they usually aren't, and if they exhibit a behavior warranting excusing it, most judges do.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I've never seen a dog roll its eyes ... what exactly does that mean?


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## Blaireli (Jun 3, 2008)

Jo, if this is talking about the look they give you when they're acting like a thirteen-year-old girl, all I have to say is...you've never met Luke. Hehe.  



Jo Ellen said:


> I've never seen a dog roll its eyes ... what exactly does that mean?


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Pointgold said:


> Actually, there _is _a temperament "requirement" in the breed ring. Temperament of a dog exhibited is required to meet whatever the standard states for that breed. Additionally, The judges Rules and Guidelines clearly state:
> *
> [R] Poorly Trained, Shy and Vicious Dogs
> *Excuse any dog that will not stand for examination; mark the judge’s book "Excused, unable to examine;" and initial the notation.
> ...


Yes, but the way a dog is handled in the ring doesn't always mimic everyday life. Nobody is "grabbing" the dog's collar or tail; they aren't trying to take a bone away from the dog or bother the dog while he's eating and dogs are so contextual, that the way they behave "in the ring" can easily be a far cry from everyday attitude. (Just watch an OTCH dog drag its owner around the block! 

I understand that gross temperament faults, when observed in the ring, are penalized, but I still feel what's seen in the ring doesn't always equate to the "real world" experience of living with that dog.

My colleague once worked with a nasty, nasty, NASTY Wheaton who'd just as soon bite you as look at you. It was beautifully put together and on more than one occassion, was WD AND RWD in the same show. The handler knew how to handle the dog so that temperament flaws weren't visible, or if they were, were downplayed (or maybe the judges looked the other way, I don't know). It wasn't the handler's dog, and in the real world, the dog was a menace. The breeder wanted to breed him b/c he did so well in the ring.

THAT'S the kind of thing I'm talking about.

I'd love to see a thorough behavior test in the conformation ring - perhaps something along the lines of what Sue Sternberg or Emily Weiss has out there.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Yes, but the way a dog is handled in the ring doesn't always mimic everyday life. Nobody is "grabbing" the dog's collar or tail; they aren't trying to take a bone away from the dog or bother the dog while he's eating and dogs are so contextual, that the way they behave "in the ring" can easily be a far cry from everyday attitude. (Just watch an OTCH dog drag its owner around the block!
> 
> I understand that gross temperament faults, when observed in the ring, are penalized, but I still feel what's seen in the ring doesn't always equate to the "real world" experience of living with that dog.
> 
> ...


 
I agree with you, Steph. It is NOT a "real world" scenario, and as I said, a dog can be trained to behave in the ring.

I don't care _how _beautiful a dog is, if the temperament is not correct, I won't breed it, and I have sent a couple of really pretty bitches packing rather than allowing one of my stud dogs to breed them. And while there are people who don't care, the majority of reputable breeders do the same. It's too bad that there are enough who _don't _that we even have to consider temperament testing in the breed ring, or any other competetive venues.

A question - how can a dog be WD & RWD in the same show?


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

*A question - how can a dog be WD & RWD in the same show?*

I think it's one of those little things that judges CAN, but hardly ever DO - like witholding placements if they think all the dogs in their ring are crap. I was told it was that the judge was so enamored by this particular dog and didn't think any other dogs in the ring hend a candle to him, so he was awarded both WD and RWD. I'm assuming it's "legal" since it happened, but I never bothered to look since I'm not really a confromation person.

And I know the good breeders out there are looking at temperament first and foremost. It's just sad that they don't ALL operate that way. Unfortunately, a handful of "bad apples" in the group has the potential to sully a noticible segment of the population.

Maybe I'm a hardass, but I'd like to see a temperament test and at least a basic working/instinct certificate (on non Toy group dogs) before a CH can be earned. Totally unrealistic, but I still like the idea!


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Maybe I'm a hardass, but I'd like to see a temperament test and at least a basic working/instinct certificate (on non Toy group dogs) before a CH can be earned. Totally unrealistic, but I still like the idea!


I don't think it's totally unrealisitic--they actually get college athletes to pay lip service to the idea of going to class--but the implementation seems problematical.

If the test is something like a CGC, you'd simply get handlers "teaching the test." If it's more in depth, like the kind of temperament testing you'd use on a litter of puppies, it's going to be more subjective. While I couldn't actually see any dogs missing their titles because of this, it might encourage breeders to pay more attention to temperament.

IMHO, the AKC has done a really bad job of explaining its mission to the general public. Most pet owners don't understand or care about conformation (that's another story) but they do care a lot about temperament. And that could be one huge way to differentiate a pup from a quality breeder from a puppy mill dog.

allen


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## bwoz (Jul 12, 2007)

Just wanted to say that I'm hoping you find a trainer you're comfortable with that will help you and Boomer. I'm sure it's a scary situation for you, but please keep us posted.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> *A question - how can a dog be WD & RWD in the same show?*
> 
> I think it's one of those little things that judges CAN, but hardly ever DO - like witholding placements if they think all the dogs in their ring are crap. I was told it was that the judge was so enamored by this particular dog and didn't think any other dogs in the ring hend a candle to him, so he was awarded both WD and RWD. I'm assuming it's "legal" since it happened, but I never bothered to look since I'm not really a confromation person.


:scratchch It makes no sense. Winners Dog (WD) is the dog that earns the points. _Reserve Winners Dog_ (RWD)is the dog that is, for lack of a better way to put it, "second" to WD. RWD gets no points, but if WD were to be disqualified for any reason, would move up to WD and get the points that WD earned.
Thinking about the scenario of your friend's SCW, could he have been given WD and Best of Breed (BOB)? That is the only thing that would make sense. And class dogs (dogs that are not yet finished champions), can and do go BOB relatively frequently.

Sorry for the hijack.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Hope we hear an update soon. Thinking of you and Boomer.


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## chubbs_mcfatty (Jan 30, 2008)

I am a current Bark Busters client here in Canada and have had great results with our two dogs. It really sounds like Boomer still does not yet respect you as the pack leader in your household. He bit you as a form of active dominace (you tried to stop him from digging and he corrected you). I would not grab him by the collar any more to get him to do anything. This will only create a negative association with your hands, and until he has your respect he may not let you touch his collar when he is doing something he wants to do. 

You should have called him away from the hole he was digging. If he refused then throw the "pillows" around him and the hole to make the hole uncomfortable say "bah" while you are throwing the pillows. Right after the toss, lower your body height and call him over. This makes you look a lot more inviting then the hole and he will come to you. No grabbing of the collar required. 

When your Bark Buster trainer comes back to your home tell them about the digging. Dogs only dig if something is wrong with their environment. Most likely they are bored. 

Under the right circumstances any dog can bite. It really depends on their temperment as to why they bite. It really sounds like Boomer misbehaves because he has no respect for you. Until that respect is earned then he may "correct" you with a bite in the future. Treats, Sit, Stay etc. won't change his level of respect for you. 

I hope this helps. Look at the homework sheet that Bark Busters left you and re-examine where Boomer is getting his "wins" in.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Under what logic exactly, is a dog going to want to come to a person who is throwing things at him?


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## chubbs_mcfatty (Jan 30, 2008)

You are not throwing things at them. You are throwing the "pillows" around them saying BAH in a low gutteral tone. You then immediately drop your body height an in nice praising tone call the dog to you. If you haven't been through the Bark Busters training this won't make a lot a sense to you. Basically you are telling the dog "digging/not coming" = bad, "coming to me"= good. It really does work great.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

chubbs_mcfatty said:


> You are not throwing things at them. You are throwing the "pillows" around them saying BAH in a low gutteral tone. You then immediately drop your body height an in nice praising tone call the dog to you. If you haven't been through the Bark Busters training this won't make a lot a sense to you. Basically you are telling the dog "digging/not coming" = bad, "coming to me"= good. It really does work great.


And the "pillows" are really what? Beanbags?

No, I get it. You're tossing something at the dog to interrupt the unwanted behavior and then trying to redirect him to to a wanted behavior (coming to you). You're attempting to positively punish digging by adding an aversive, the pillows, in hopes of decreasing future incidents of digging. The science of learning and behavior modification is the same no matter whose clever marketing lingo is attached to it!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

chubbs_mcfatty said:


> It really sounds like Boomer still does not yet respect you as the pack leader in your household. He bit you as a form of active dominace (you tried to stop him from digging and he corrected you). I would not grab him by the collar any more to get him to do anything. This will only create a negative association with your hands, and until he has your respect he may not let you touch his collar when he is doing something he wants to do.


The problem with this logic is that if you're wrong about the "dominance," you could make the problem dramatically worse. If he was just a brat who delivered a "leave me alone!" nip, it might be worthwhile to think about working on his respect (though I still prefer non-coercive techniques even in that situation).

However, if there was any fear in the bite, correcting him back, using aversive techniques, or "dominating" him could backfire terribly. If he's afraid and bites to protect himself, and then you add aversives, you can teach him he needs to react _more_ fearfully and _more_ aggressively.

I notice my question about other methods and equipment wasn't answered. This kind of nipping could easily be the result of fear created by a shock or prong collar.


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## slechner (Sep 5, 2008)

Boomer update-the fellow from Bark Busters came on Friday. We had a good session including walking Boomer around our yard and how to deter him from eating "everything". Also, he recommended that we switch to a grain free food which my husband is off buying as we speak. We took him for thyroid blood tests and expect results today but vet said hypothyroid is more common in dogs and Boomer is definitely not lethargic or overweight. Lastly, I enrolled him in level two training starting next Saturday. We have been giving him lots of exercise and hopefully things will improve. 

To the person who asked if we used shock or prong collars, the answer is no. Thank you to everyone for your support. Much appreciated and keep you updated.


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## bwoz (Jul 12, 2007)

Sounds like you're doing the best for Boomer and I'm sure it will all work out. Glad to hear it and keep us posted.


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