# My 11 year old GR just had a seizure!



## Hudson (May 18, 2005)

Sorry to hear your golden girl has seizures, I have no experience to offer but hope things improve for her and others here on the forum can answer your questions.


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## Prov31 (Aug 16, 2006)

I'm very sorry to hear that your dear dog is having seizures. You did the right thing taking her to the vet. It is very important to stop the seizures if they begin to "cluster" (3 in one day is clustering). The phenobarbital should help if it is a basic seizure situation (if there is such a thing). It is very important to get a complete thyroid panel. This cannot be done at a local vet hospital and should be sent off to one of a few places (Michigan State University or Dr. Jean Dodd's clinic are highly regarded). As you do research, you will find that a normal reading that is on the low end for most dogs is actually low for a Golden. If it is on the low end, they would start her on a dose of thyroid meds and keep her on the pheno as well. This may do the trick. 

You may want to go the route of an MRI just for peace of mind. It is expensive, so you might try the complete thyroid blood test first. I've seen a lot of seizures over the years and it is always frightening. It is best if you stay very calm and quiet while it is happening and afterwards. Although a minute seems like a long time, that is quite short for a serious seizure, so that is good news.

And to answer your question--I don't believe that there would necessarily be any behavior changes if there is a problem with her brain. The seizure may be the first hint. There are many, many things that can cause seizures, so let's stay positive and start the process of elimination. 

There are lots of us here that have dealt with seizures, so be sure to ask more questions or just hang out with other golden lovers. Keep us posted as to how your dog is doing.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Just wanted you to know I'm thinking of you...


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I hope your senior girl is doing well this morning. Finn has valium (diazepam) in a fast -acting form used for human epleptics called Diastat(rectal). So many,many things can affect a dog/person's seizure threshold- from lead paint to common drugs like acepromazine to possibly peanut butter and certainly several tick borne diseases. Pine scented cleaners and thyroid issues and the drug Flagyl are suspects too. It is worrying to have three in a cluster; each seizure makes the next seizure more likely. Dogs are more vulnerable in deep sleep bc seizure threshold is lowest. Blood sugar is a likely suspect and our vet has Finn eat three smaller meals a day. I think BeauShel gives Beau Vanilla ice cream to restore his bloodsugar(?), and we do that for Finn if he has the "flycatcher" pre-seizure symptoms. I am so sorry this has happened to your girl. Finding the cause is frustrating.


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## Tanyac (Jun 18, 2008)

I'm so sorry this is happening to you and although I haven't had a dog with seizures, I had to endure one of my children having fits due to high temperature so know how stressful it is for you.

I hope you find out what caused this problem and that the vets can help you fix it or at least stop it happening again. My thoughts are with you.


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## csbeard (Nov 20, 2008)

My golden Nikki did the exact same thing...she was 12. We tried the anti seizure meds but they made her very sleepy and sometimes almost catatonic. If I had it to do again, I would not have gone that route. The doctor suspected that there was a brain tumor but without an MRI could not make a diagnosis. The cost was so much we felt like treating the symptoms was the way to go. Finally, after seeing how she reacted to the anti seizure meds...we took a trip to Va Tech Vet School. The treatment costs are much less expensive and we just had to know what we were dealing with. Well, long story short...they found enough from the preliminary tests to rule that we were probably dealing with a brain tumor. She passed 3 days later. They told us that usually there are issues elsewhere when there is a brain tumor so they went searching. They found an enlarged sack around her heart which ultimately killed her. They also told us that it is rare for a dog to develop epilepsy at that advanced age...usually it is something more catastrophic. I am so sorry for you because I know how hard this is!


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I am so sorry about your dog having seizures. My Beau has been going thru them since Feb 07. We have him on phenobarbital. Like your dog my Beau did not show any signs before it happened. His thyroid was low and I highly recommend your regular vet do another full panel and send it to Jean Dodds. She is a leading authority on thyroid issues and that is a side effect for low thyroid. Goldens actually can be a low normal and they need the thyroid meds. I have a couple of websites that might help you and the one (guardian angel) has some awesome information on managing the seizures and things to do. Hope they help and if you have any questions just pm me or list them here. I will check back in. 
http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/HEMOPET.HTM

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/CanineEpil.htm

I found out about the vanilla ice cream from this site and it does help to get his blood sugar back up. Beau does alot of pacing and cant get settled after his seizure and the blood sugar helps to calm him down. I nuke it in the microwave to make it alittle soft. 
Our vet believes that he has a brain tumor also because he has some other issues now showing up like he has lot some vision (could be from the seizures though), gazing off like he cant hear you, and other little things. I chose not to do the MRI because the vet said most of the brain tumors treatment doesnt help but yours might be different. Hope it helps. Give your pup a big hug from me.


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## dachrist28 (Dec 27, 2008)

Thanks for all the replies. Our golden made it through the first night home from the vet without any seizures. It was a tough night for me though, any small noise had me bursting out of bed to check on her. 

One more thing about the seizures...she seems to have a jaw snapping fit before the actual seizure begins, like she is snapping at bees or flys or something. Is this what other people have seen? We have given her the first 2 doses of phenobarbitol, she appears to have no side effects at all? She is still very energetic, has no problems walking or getting up from lying down.


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## Prov31 (Aug 16, 2006)

dachrist28 said:


> Thanks for all the replies. Our golden made it through the first night home from the vet without any seizures. It was a tough night for me though, any small noise had me bursting out of bed to check on her.
> 
> One more thing about the seizures...she seems to have a jaw snapping fit before the actual seizure begins, like she is snapping at bees or flys or something. Is this what other people have seen? We have given her the first 2 doses of phenobarbitol, she appears to have no side effects at all? She is still very energetic, has no problems walking or getting up from lying down.


The jaw snapping sounds completely normal in my experience. Different dogs have different pre-seizure activity. Our dog has never shown any signs or side effects from the phenobarb. She is always energetic and playful. I know that some have experienced the lethargy, but it isn't always present. I'm glad that she has had a good night.


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## WLR (May 11, 2008)

The seizures can even be caused by a food allergy. My Terrier mix is allergic to corn gluten which is in ProPlan. For 2 years the poor guy had 4 to 6, 2 minute seizures a month. When I got him off ProPlan the seizures virtually stopped. 
Mri's are expensive and take longer. I would probably opt for a CT scan instead.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

My Beau hasnt had any of those but he is always asleep when they happen. But he does have small episodes where his eyes will be open and he just stares off and his bottom jaw quivers and then he goes back down and then back up for up to 2 hours nonstop. It is really freaking when he is staring off and nothing will stop him. I just sit and talk to him very calmly.


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## tannernoodle (Mar 19, 2008)

I'm so sorry to hear about your girl having a seizure  You got some good advice on here. I know nothing about them but I have heard other people comment how their dogs change a little after having them. Some can become a little aggressive or no changes at all.


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## Sadiesdream (Jul 11, 2008)

I know Carols golden has seizures but I wanted to share Jakes with you. Jake was diagnosed with epileptic seizures in 07. He is a 4 year old perfectly healthy male. He lives a very normal active exciting life and seizures for us hasn't became a crutch. He is on Potassium Bromide, which is better for dogs but takes ALOT longer to work. As your phenobarb takes effect almost immediately it cost us 3 months o get PB into Jakes system. There can be side effects to phenobarb, that happen over a longer period. The meds depends on how bad the seizures are and how long they last and how frequent they happen. I've been fortunate enough to have been seizure free for 3 months. I have a few questions for you though:

Have you changed his food at all? 
Gave him anything different to eat:
Has he counter surfed and happened to grab a fast treat?


The reason I ask is corn has been notived to cause seizures. Allergies in general can also cause seizures. For jake we noticed when his food was changed that his seizures started more fequently, but as we backed away from all foods that contained types of corn, his seizures didn't occur nearly as much or at all for that matter.

Please let me recommend some things to you:

The best thing to do is ignore him when he has them. If you get scared, he'll get scared and you dont want this. Jake had most of his asleep. But the times he had them while awake, he stared off into the oblivion and would then urinate on himself right where he stood. He would basically roll over and actually best way to put it, look dead. The first time.. scared the holy daylights out of me. But I could see after he had the first one, that he noticed I was scared and in turn he paniced. Allow him to go through the episode, don't touch him, mess with him, or move him, and just have everyone ignore him. I know its your baby and its hard, but you don't want your furkid to panic. You control the seizures, don't allow them to control you.

Also if you allow your golden to swim, I recommend buying a life jacket that has the pull handle on the back of it, it will become a safety tool just in case a seizure occurs while in the pool. 

I'm sorry you have to go through with this and experience it. No dog deserves to ever go through a seizure. But its a way of life for Jake and once they have them they seem to always be prone to have a flare up at any point. So always be ready. Hug your pup for me and just tell him/her that it'll be alright  We're here for you and if you ever have any questions please don't hesitate to email me or message me. I'm not a vet by anymeans, but we've battled this for a while, so I can share with you my trials and tribs of a golden with epileptic seizures.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I would love to hear more about Jake and seizures!


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## Sadiesdream (Jul 11, 2008)

Ljilly28 said:


> I would love to hear more about Jake and seizures!


what would you like to know exactly?

If you were to ever meet Jake, you would have no clue he has epileptsy. His life is so normal that its really nothing we think about in our household. He is an all around fast paced lovable snugglebunny. He is daddies lil boy and he knows it. When we hike, he sticks to me like superglue. So let me know what you would like to know and I'd be more than happy to share


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## dachrist28 (Dec 27, 2008)

Sadiesdream said:


> Have you changed his food at all?
> Gave him anything different to eat:
> Has he counter surfed and happened to grab a fast treat?


Food has not changed for the last 8 years. We feed her Iams. The only things that she got that was different were some treats that santa brought. But I had assumed if it were an alergy, the blood tests would have shown something?


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## *~Pry&Kasper~* (Dec 25, 2008)

Sending you lots of love and hope...

xoxo
Pry & Kasper


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## Heidi36oh (Feb 27, 2007)

Just wanted to send thoughts and prayers for you're girl.


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

Hoping for the best for you. I have not been through this particular trauma, but I know it must be hell. Good luck!


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Our Max began having grand mal seizures when he was 6. He was on phenobarbitol for 6 years till he died at age 12. He usually had them while asleep but sometimes would fall to the floor as one started. Our daughters were kids then and became very adept at dealing with seizures. We always threw a towel over him as he sprayed urine everywhere. He had them much less as he aged. I believe his were caused by low thyroid, even though he was taking meds for thyroid I don't think his dose was correct.

I agree with others to get a full thyroid panel and Dr. Dodds is a saint.


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## SamFox (Apr 7, 2008)

I'm so sorry you are going through this, just reading your description brought tears to my eyes. We lost our 6 year old boxer a year ago to a brain tumor, for six months before she passed she had multiple cluster grand mal seizures. The first one had me running at 2:00am to the emergency vet. They kept her overnight & gave her the shot of diazepam & also ended up having to do an iv drip to get enough in her for the seizures to stop. We took her to our vet the next day as soon as she was released & did blood tests. We found out she was semi-low thyroid, she was on thyroid meds for about six months with very few seizures, when she would have one the vet would re-test her blood & usually up her dosage.

Unfortunately the seizures came back with a vengeance & our vet (who we LOVE) told us that her thyroid tested high average now & he didn't feel comfortable starting her on Phenobarbital until we had her evaluated by a neurologist. We were told that epilepsy beginning in a dog her age was very rare. We took her in & had them do a ct scan which ruled out an operable tumor. The MRI was over $2,000 and the neurologist along with our vet agreed that there was an overwhelming chance (both said 90%) that she had a brain tumor. Since she was still seizing multiple times a day & had lost almost all of her balance. Even going out to go potty she would fall over a few times, it was heartbreaking. When we decided to have her put to sleep, it was one of the worst days of my life.

I encourage you to ask the vet if you can try the thyroid medication, it was very inexpensive, had no side effects and in our case gave us another six months with our girl. If your baby does end up with a brain tumor, I am so sorry. I wish we would have had 11 years with our girl!

My thoughts are with you and your baby, I hope it turns out to be a allergy or something very treatable like epilepsy. 

p.s. Our dogs seizures always started out with the snapping jaw, at first I thought she was sneezing.


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## Sadiesdream (Jul 11, 2008)

dachrist28 said:


> Food has not changed for the last 8 years. We feed her Iams. The only things that she got that was different were some treats that santa brought. But I had assumed if it were an allergy, the blood tests would have shown something?


blood tests wont show allergens. You will need a allergen panel done. Most recommend that you do write down every thing you've given her up to a few days before the first seizure. Research the ingredients. If corn is the top major ingredients, then its a likely suspect. Heres the rough part... you will need to give her exactly what you gave her starting from the first item. Jake goes to UGA (University of Georgia) for his seizures, and trust me its hard but several doctors and students all agreed that corn seemed to play a role in his epileptsy. Cant prove it, since theres not been alot of testing done in this field regarding dogs or animals. Now Heres a few recommendations.

Try to get in contact with the nearest University that has a full scale vet school. They provide top of the line care for not even a fraction of the cost. A MRI at UGA for Jake was $20. His 3 month visits gives us the visit, 3 month supply of potassium bromide for $48.

UGA requires a recommendation to bring your animals there, but once you're in all your animals can go there for tests and panels when ever you need them.

Your normal vet won't be able to do much regarding the seizures, except prep you on how to handle them, a neurologist are able to tell you exactly the problem. Don't get worried , and over exhaust yourself yet. You need to take care of her and do the research, ask all the questions and get her the help she needs to discover the true problem. Don't spin your wheels, and stay on top of it. If a vet gives you an answer you don't agree with, get a second opinion. The tests that need to be ran arent cheap, but if you do the university research you may save tons of money and get her professional help at the same time. With mine $$ wasn't an question, but after harsssing and making hundreds of phone calls, Jake got into UGA and theres not a vet clinic around that can match them.


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## Sadiesdream (Jul 11, 2008)

I just ran a check on all of Iam's food heres the first 4 ingreds:

Iams Healthy Naturals: Chicken, Chicken By-Product Meal, Brewers Rice, *Corn Meal*

Chicken, *Corn Meal*, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Chicken By-Product Meal, 

I've looked all of them and they all but 2 have corn meal as the 1 of the main 4 ingredients. Just my opinion and mine alone, I'd change her food. I know you've fed her that for 8 years, but she hasn't had seizures up until now, again its just my opinion and from experience. This isnt saying this is the cause of her seizures, but I think it would help them not occur as frequently as they have.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Interesting about the corn, because one week after Beau had his first seizure he had bloat and was switched to a grain free venison and his seizures were even stronger. And now this summer we switched back to ProPlan and he has had only a couple of seizures. We tried to lower his phenobarbital only by 1/2 pill a day after he was seizure free for 8 months and he went right back having seizures. I belong to a forum for epileptic dogs http://www.canine-epilepsy.net/ and they might be able to help with information.


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## MissRue (Nov 18, 2008)

Sorry no advice or insight into this, but I do have hugs and prayers coming your way.


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## chaseisace (Nov 4, 2008)

Thinking of you.:crossfing


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## AtticusJordie (Aug 15, 2006)

Atticus is 8.5 and has occasional seizures--he only tremors slightly (more like strong shivering vs. a grand mal seizure...), becomes somewhat unresponsive and will sometimes lose continence. He has the usual 'post-ictal' stage where he is very lethargic/sleepy. If animal seizures run similarly to human ones (but keep in mind, I'm an EMT, not a vet!), then the staring off into space and not being responsive to outside stimuli (like calling the dogs name with no reaction) for short periods of time are manifestations of classic petite mal seizures.

Atticus's mom had a history of seizures--since her breeder disappeared into thin air several years after he was born, we were unable to get a better medical history. We don't have a definitive cause for his seizures (they occur only 2-3 times/year so far), but it is likely due to either a neurological problem and/or low thyroid levels. We have purposely kept him that way (hypothyroid) at the suggestion of 4 different vets (including several visits to Ohio State Vet Hosp.--a fantastic facility!) because of his terminal heart condition. The Thyro-tabs evidently interfere with his heart meds and/or have an adverse effect on his heart (which is grossly enlarged and has several malfunctioning [leaking] valves--which he has had since birth). That is a fine line that we walk every day--but so far, the seizures have not gotten worse either in frequency or intensity. Should that happen, our vet (who has Goldens herself) recommended starting anti seizure meds--but strongly recommended that those meds be used as a last resort for Atticus since he is on so many others....

Sadiesdream has offered a lot of pretty good info--but I would differ with her on one issue. This may go back to my experience as an Emergency Medical Technician--but when Atticus is actively seizing, one of us will turn down the lights in the room and lie next to him and either lie quietly with him, stroking his fur or talk to him slowly and in a low calming voice. Once the seizure activity has passed, we continue the same procedure until he either falls asleep (rarely) or decides to get up. We then keep things kinda quiet around the house for awhile. The bottom line is, I guess, whatever seems to work best for you--do it! 

And you've probably already seen this on other websites, but if the dog is actively seizing (grand mal), try to protect them from striking nearby objects--remove furniture and other items that may be nearby, keep everyone calm. An old school thought was to try to get something wedged into their mouths to prevent them from biting their tongue--but at least for humans, that is a bit pasee now--since a lot of good-intentioned people were breaking the teeth of the patient trying to jam something into their mouths after the seizing had started!

I guess that's about it--I hope that the suggestions everyone has given you will help you--there is a lot of experience here at the Forum. It seems like whatever problem someone may be now experiencing--ten other people have already gone through the same thing with varying results! 

I hope that the meds keep the seizures under control--and that you find a more organic cause for the problem (like corn!). One of the other posters mentioned about wishing that they had had their pup as long as you have had yours. Atticus is 8.5 years old--and was supposed to have died before he was three. We cherish each day we have him since he has enriched our lives these so short years. Whether your furkid is around for another 11 years (I wish!) or 11 days--enjoy the time you have remaining with her. It is obvious that you care deeply for her. Good Luck and keep us posted!

Peace,

Scott J.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

This is an incredible thread; it's thoughtful, well-informed, and truly useful. 

The vet warned us that, when Finn has a seizure( so far,like Atticus')that the other dogs might react aggressively(????).That has never happened, but Raleigh used to howl a sound he never made otherwise a tiny bit before Finn had a seizure and lick him- give him a bath on his forehead and face. The younger pups don't seem to have a reaction.


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## Sadiesdream (Jul 11, 2008)

My advice about not bothering your seizing pup is just personal experience for me alone. Thats why its just advice from someone whom isn't a vet or a doctor but a guy whom has cared for a 70lb seizing golden retreiver. I dont bother jake because at the first seizure he had, we were all caught off guard and it scared him tremendously. It was then that we as a family decided that it would be best to not interfer with him, *BUT *we do make sure he gets to the ground ok, and we try to place a towel under him. Jake was truly scared during his first one, after he came out of the seizure, he took a while to stand up but once he made it to his feet, you could tell he was truly worried.

Carol: as for the corn advice, we had to find out that he was indeed allergic to corn I explained that it could make it better or worse, but the whole idea is to see if thats a possible suspect, or if it plays any type of role. UGA is trying to link grain/corn to neurological problems in allergic animals. But none the less corn/wheat shouldn't be one of the first 3-4 ingredients in a dog food.

Again I'm not a vet/doctor and I don't claim to know everything about epileptsy in canines. Sadly the entire field is new to the subject that everyone seems to still be learning, hense why UGA really wanted to see Jake. But the things I share is just what I've experienced and what has worked for me.



Ljilly28 said:


> This is an incredible thread; it's thoughtful, well-informed, and truly useful.
> 
> The vet warned us that, when Finn has a seizure( so far,like Atticus')that the other dogs might react aggressively(????).
> 
> ...


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

Sam started having seizures when he was 6. The first time he had one, I thought he was having a heart attack. He was wide awake, ran to me, collapsed, and starting paddling all four limbs while laying on his side. He opened and closed his mouth then froze in a grimace and lost his bladder. Very terrifying. This all lasted about a minute then he 'woke' up and was extremely energetic and puppy like. He always seemed to be rejuvenated after his seizures. He was eventually put on pheno and his seizures were reduced to 1 or 2 a year. His thyroid levels were normal, not low normal, so thyroid was ruled out. He lived a normal active life with his seizures. Food allergies were not considered, so I don't know if they could have been the cause. I do know that it was a concern that he developed them at an older age. That is uncommon. I hope your girl does well on the pheno, Sam tolerated it wonderfully, it didn't slow him a bit. Good luck.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I have to say that when Beau has a seizure, it may or not be happening, but when I sit next to him just rubbing him and putting the towel down next to him, he seems to calm more in the seizure. It may be wishful thinking but it makes me feel better. And when Beau has one, Bama lays down next to him but at his back and licks him and after the seizure will not leave his side until he goes back to sleep after a couple of hours. 
Another thing, the day after his seizure he seems to have more energy and spunkiness. It is almost like a young light switch turns back on. 
I wonder if I talked with my vet about having a referral to the University of Florida vet college, if they would do an MRI on him to see what the cause could be. But then I dont know if I want to know if he has a brain tumor. He has already lived alot longer then they thought.


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## Sadiesdream (Jul 11, 2008)

BeauShel said:


> I have to say that when Beau has a seizure, it may or not be happening, but when I sit next to him just rubbing him and putting the towel down next to him, he seems to calm more in the seizure. It may be wishful thinking but it makes me feel better. And when Beau has one, Bama lays down next to him but at his back and licks him and after the seizure will not leave his side until he goes back to sleep after a couple of hours.
> Another thing, the day after his seizure he seems to have more energy and spunkiness. It is almost like a young light switch turns back on.
> I wonder if I talked with my vet about having a referral to the University of Florida vet college, if they would do an MRI on him to see what the cause could be. But then I dont know if I want to know if he has a brain tumor. He has already lived alot longer then they thought.


 To each his own Carol. My reasons for not bothering him is if he gets excited it can possibly prolong the seizure, and anything over a minute can be dangerous. So I allow him to runt he course, and once he gets up and starst playing again, I give him the bigest hug and kiss and we go outside and play. I feel you and I can relate somewhat with what we've been dealing with when it comes to our kids. I take comfort in knowing I can share jakes issues and atleast others can relate and understand. Please try to get into Florida, Ive heard they hve a great vet program there. The prices are unmatchable, and they really desire cases like ours. Consider them more of a specialist vet instead of an ordinary vet. It truly has been a god send with the bills and in the long run the relationships I've made with the great people at UGA is unbeatable anywhere else. Maybe one day they will find a way to "cure" this health problem in dogs and humans alike. But with out a doubt I live every day making sure Jake lives a normal happy life without any crutches.


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## KatieandAngie (Dec 24, 2008)

Katie started having seizures at 2 years of age and was epileptic up until she died.

One thing I would definitely check is whether or not your dog has Cushings. Cushings can cause seizures and usually doesn't manifest itself till later in a dogs life. If she has developed a large belly and drinks a lot I would look at Cushings. The test for it is fairly cheap and if she does present Cushings symptons it would certainly be warranted.

As far as medications. If you need to treat the seizures longterm definitely go with the potassium bromide. You can run them (Phenobarb and PB) in tandem for a while until it kicks in. They can also give a loading dose that reduces the time to achieve a half-life. In addition to not being processed through the liver (the main drawback to Phenobarb) it also has the advantage that a missed dose will not trigger a seizure versus in the Phenobarb it can. In Katie's case it was a big worry that it could cause her to go Status Epiletic (which was a huge fear for us that fornutely never occurred).

Best of luck and our prayers and thoughts are with you and your girl.


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## dachrist28 (Dec 27, 2008)

Well, so far so good, 2 nights without a seizure. I still can't believe it happened, she is still totally herself, bouncing around and wanting to play all the time. What made this all worse was of course we were staying at my parents house whent he seizures hit, and had to take her to a vet we were unfamiliar with. We just got home, and have made an appointment with her regular vet for tomorrow morning. We had the seizure treating vet send over all the information about what he did to Jasper to our regular vet, so he has a heads up before we see him tomorrow.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Just curious: what did they check in the blood work? Did they check for lead?


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## dachrist28 (Dec 27, 2008)

I have no idea...all they said was "everything was normal".


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## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

This is the same thing that happened to my old golden, who was 12.. she had a big seizure in the middle of the night and then started having small ones every so often. The vet ran blood tests and checked her out...found nothing and put her on phenabarbotol (or however you spell it) Please take your dog back to the vet and have an abdominal x-ray done. My girl started to be in alot of pain and then I took her again to the vet..they did the abdominal x-ray and found she had a tumor on her liver...


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

dachrist28 said:


> I have no idea...all they said was "everything was normal".


I asked because lead can cause seizures and it's easy to test the blood for high levels, but your vet may not have bothered at this point. I'm trying to think outside the box a bit to rule out some of the less likely but highly treatable potential causes of seizure. Lead could explain the clustered seizures if the dog ate something that's now slowly passing out of the system.

Don't be afraid to push your vet to do tests you want to see the results of, even if he or she doesn't think your idea is likely. If you're willing to pay for a minimally invasive test (like a blood test), there's no reason for your vet to stop you. Vets are a little like mechanics, and they have to gauge their customers. Your vet may not want to waste your money on tests that aren't absolutely crucial, but trying to save money can slow down the diagnostic process as they rule things out one at a time.

Just spitballing here. Lead's not likely, but it's possible.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I cant believe I forgot to say anything about the lead until Tippykayak talked about the lead but here is a thread that I started earlier this year about a possible cause of Beau's seizures and it is about lead. 
http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=31890


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## Duke's Momma (Mar 1, 2007)

I hate the seizures. I believe they are directly from hell. Duke has had seizures since he was 1 1/2 I think. He's been on phenobarb since that time. About 3 - 4 years ago we then also put him on the potassium bromide as the pb just wasn't doing the trick alone. 

It's interesting how different everyone is when their babies have seizures. I guess it is all personal preference and what helps with one might not help with another. We, however, when a seizure happens are right at his side. I immediately get a towel to catch the urine. I have one by my side of the bed where he sleeps. 

We are almost on top of him, stroking him and telling him what a good boy he is. Sometimes we lovingly shout his name as if it's going to pierce the fog he's in at the time. However, I believe that sometime it actually helps. The one thing we don't want is for him to wake up and not have us there. We stroke him the whole while until he's back - which can take up to 10 minutes.

We then feed him some canned food and maybe some yogurt. Having a seizure is like them running a marathon. They're spent. I have some suggestions we have found throughout the 6 years of dealing with this.

1) KEEP A JOURNAL! It's so important - log down her day prior to the seizure and after (hopefully she won't have anymore!) I put down the length, time and activity after.

2) If she sleeps on your bed, get a matress cover that's waterproof. 

3) Always have on hand the waterless shampoo. Even though I try to catch the urine with a towel he gets stinkey anyway. It's a nice quick clean up and gives them hands on which they love, of course.

4) If you have stairs, put a baby gate up. Duke had a gm seizure and was at the top of the stairs sleeping. He seized all the way to the first landing (about 15 stairs) and then down to the basement (6 stairs). It was horrible. I've found the gate stops him from sleeping up there.

5) Their core temp rises so much during a seizure that it's dangerous. To make them more comfortable, keep a little spray bottle with rubbing alcohol in it by where the seizures happen most frequently. Spray it on her pads after the seizure but while she's still laying there. It helps to cool them off.

6) He's so disoriented that I watch him like a hawk for about an hour (am cleaning up sheets and bedding anyway!) We let him outside and again watch him. He's very uncoordinated and very uncooperative for a couple hours afterwards as well.

7) Keep valium with you at all times administered with a glass of wine - for you, of course! Just kidding - it's so horrible, though that I say we go through post traumatic stress syndrome. Always listening for any wierd movement or sound.

Um, I think that might be all. 

We are now dealing with the phenobarb damaging his liver as he's been on it for 6 - 6 1/2 years now. His enzymes are rising at an alarming rate. He's on 2 liver support supplements but still one of the enzymes is rising so much so that we are now messing with his meds.

He's been seizure free since August (the longest so far!!!!) We are cutting back - very slowly - his phenobarb and increasing his potassium bromide. Saturday will be one full week of decreased phenobarb (just a mere 1/2 pill decrease am until 2 weeks then 1/2 pill decrease pm as well). He's not been too lethargic on the increase potassium bromide.

Oh, the lethargy will pass as their bodies adjust to the med. (or should - again, every one is so different!)

We also are very particular where we leave him if we fly out of town. And, I portion his meds out into a baggie so there's no thinking on their part - they just open the baggie for am and again for pm and it's all ready for them.

Enough! I just pray that she's all better and it was an isolated incident. I just left the list for anyone who needs it if you don't and hopefully you won't!

Cindy


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## KatieandAngie (Dec 24, 2008)

Duke's Momma said:


> 5) Their core temp rises so much during a seizure that it's dangerous. To make them more comfortable, keep a little spray bottle with rubbing alcohol in it by where the seizures happen most frequently. Spray it on her pads after the seizure but while she's still laying there. It helps to cool them off.


Very true. We used to apply a towel soaked in ice water to Katie's head to keep her brain temp down. Because of all the electrical activity (think of a seizure as a mini-lighting storm going on amongst all the synapses in their brain) their brains get super heated and it is important to keep them cool. We found this tended to shorten the disorientation period afterwards for Katie.



Duke's Momma said:


> 6) He's so disoriented that I watch him like a hawk for about an hour (am cleaning up sheets and bedding anyway!) We let him outside and again watch him. He's very uncoordinated and very uncooperative for a couple hours afterwards as well.


Katie used to walk around in a fog for a considerable amount of time afterwards. The danger was if she got outside, because she'd just wander around without any idea of who or where she was.



Duke's Momma said:


> We are now dealing with the phenobarb damaging his liver as he's been on it for 6 - 6 1/2 years now. His enzymes are rising at an alarming rate. He's on 2 liver support supplements but still one of the enzymes is rising so much so that we are now messing with his meds.
> 
> He's been seizure free since August (the longest so far!!!!) We are cutting back - very slowly - his phenobarb and increasing his potassium bromide. Saturday will be one full week of decreased phenobarb (just a mere 1/2 pill decrease am until 2 weeks then 1/2 pill decrease pm as well). He's not been too lethargic on the increase potassium bromide.


The potassium bromide was a Godsend for us as it really let us drop her Phenobarb down to a very minor level (none during the day and a half pill at night) and it is not processed through the liver as Phenobarb is. I often wonder if the stress placed on her liver by the phenobarb created an opportunistic environment for the liver cancer that ultimately killed her. 

Also, as I mentioned before, the long half-life means that a missed dosage is less likely to trigger an attack. Katie went for over two years without a seizure once she was on it and properly dosed. And never did seize again throughout her life.

I can't stress enough that if you have your dog on Phenobarb check with your Vet and see if potatssium bromide could be an option. In our experience it is a much better treatment.


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## Duke's Momma (Mar 1, 2007)

KatieandAngie said:


> I can't stress enough that if you have your dog on Phenobarb check with your Vet and see if potatssium bromide could be an option. In our experience it is a much better treatment.


I can't agree more. I'm thinking that eventually we'll be on the KBR alone as well. It's very encouraging to know that it controlled your pup's seizures so well. It's grading down that's hard.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Duke's Momma: I so relate to your experiences with Duke's seizures. We had the exact same experiences with our Max. We also got a baby gate after he fell down the stairs when a seizure came on. We too always sat with him, comforting him till he was himself afterward. 

Our daughter's golden has the petit mal seizures a couple times a year. They seem to be brought on by stress.


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## Golden Buddy (Dec 31, 2008)

*8 year old had 4 seizures Saturday*

I totally know what you are going through because we are going through it, too. I hope your dog is feeling well. My 8 year old Golden, Buddy, had 4 tonic/clonic seizures in 19 hours Saturday. We didn't realize the first one was a seizure. He looks like he is dreaming and paddles his legs really, really fast. They last for 2 minutes and then he drools, foams and is very disoriented for a little while. The fourth one was at the hospital where they gave him valium and starting 'loading' up Phenobarbital. We brought him home Sunday afternoon. He was acting different, went to the wrong house, pacing, panting and some other odd behavior. The ER seemed to think brain tumor was most likely the cause based on his age and the number of seizures. Yesterday we had a consult with a vet neurologist who did an exam and said his left side has issues - paws, eye, leaning slightly, etc. So his main thought is brain tumor/cyst, 2) stroke, 3) encephalitis. An MRI would tell but it is too expensive for us. We also talked to our family vet and decided to continue his phenobarb 2x day and wait and see for now. Last night he had some problems with that side getting up and walking but was still able to get around ok, ate, drank and seemed happy. This morning he seemed a bit better. I have been researching this online as we don't know anyone whose dog had seizures. I saw some info on thyroid which made me think I am going to have them test that but now with his left side showing weakness I don't know what to do. What does anyone think??? Before Saturday he was active, healthy, happy, eating fine, all his blood work came back ok. We can't believe it.


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## Duke's Momma (Mar 1, 2007)

First of all, take a B - I - G breath. I know this is alot on you, but they know when we're stressed about it. We were stressed here as our home based business was about ready to make some really hard decisions and Duke picked right up on it and had 2 seizures in one night. Very odd being medicated and all.

If it were a stroke - they would be able to see swelling in his brain through his eyes - my Aussie years ago had a stroke and that's what they diagnosed. Anti inflams and a okay for another 7 years!

I don't know about the tumor for either your pups as I don't have any basis for any thought - thank God! His weakness on one side or the other could be just form the phenobarb load. They act drunk and ataxic (sp?) until their systems get used to it.

I do know that when Duke had a cluster of seizures years ago before they were controlled he would be very clumsy and wierd until his body overcame the assault. Dragging his back feet, falling up the stairs etc. for up to a week.

After being loaded up on phenobarb like that I'm a little surprised they did any exam until he was grounded better. I'd call with that particular issue and see if he can't come back in - sounds like his system is leveling out.

I'm so sorry - it's so frightening, I know.


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## dachrist28 (Dec 27, 2008)

Just to give everyone an update on my 11yr old. She is now on a reduced Pheno medication, has gotten used to the pills (no more stumbling around, etc). She has not had another seizure since she was at the vet, on Dec 27th. We hoping/praying that it was a one time occurance, and the pheno will keep any more away.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

Yes, the Vet was definitely the right thing to do.

My 9.5 y/o Dakota is Epileptic, and I fully understand how frightening the whole thing looks. The first time it happens it is so scary I **** near froze in place. He has been on Phenobarbitol and Potassium Bromide for 4 years now due to this. He also has Valium Suppositories I 'apply' when he has a seizure.

He normally goes 4-6 weeks between seizure's. They always occur when he is asleep, and almost always occur in a group of 3 over a 24 hr period. Then they stop again for another 4-6 weeks.

We still hate to see them of course, but after a couple of dozen of these you learn to calm down, make sure they are safe, WALK to the fridge to get the Valium Suppositories (I **** near killed myself twice running until I got used to this), 'apply' the Valium, and cool them off. Just sit there and love them until it's over. Then clean up the Pee. They always Pee.

However, I was told that if any seizure lasted more than 3 minutes it was off to the emergency room with him. Luckily we've never exceeded about 2 min at the very most.

The vet swears they don't feel a thing. I know I sure do.

The worst part for me now, and I suspect for Daki, is AFTER the seizure. Once he gets up and starts walking around, he acts like he is almost totally blind. He will walk head-on into a wall like it's not there. This lasts for about 10 minutes. Obviously I try to prevent all this but they are a bit freaked when they regain consciousness and every now and then he gets away from me until I can catch him again.


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## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

Im glad you baby is doing better! The Pheno help my 12 year old for a bit, but we found out she had other problems...Good luck ...lots of prayers coming your way!!


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## AtticusJordie (Aug 15, 2006)

Great news! Hope the non-seizure activity continues!

Good Luck!

SJ


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

So Glad your pup is doing better.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Glad your guy is doing better. Hopefully his seizures will not come back but if they do, the most important thing is to remain calm and time the seizure while comforting him. Me and my hubby talked tonight about slowly lowering Beau's phenobarb meds tonight. Weighing the odds, having a dog all drugging and stumbling or having a seizure every month. With him losing most of his sight, we are thinking about it. I know my vet wouldnt agree but I will discuss it with him.


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## goldenchamp2 (Feb 16, 2008)

*My 9 yr old had his second seizure in a week*

"Champy" my 9 yr old golden had his second grand -mal seizure in a week. He has no history of seizures. We took him to the vet last week after the first one, had him checked out, blood work done. All results came back normal..including thyroid. I just finished reading all of the touching stories ,and the links. Thank you for all the wonderful information. The vet put Champy on phenobarbitrol.We will see how he does...


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Champy is gorgeous. Hope he does well on the phenobarb.

Did they do a full panel on his thyroid? Send it away for a week or two? That's the only way to know for sure. Goldens can be too low at low normal.

Send his results to Dr. Jean Dodds at Hemopet.


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

Oh goodness, why, why? What Deb said is a good idea. He is beautiful. I hope he can get to a good level of Pheno to control the seizures and keep him happy.


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## KatieandAngie (Dec 24, 2008)

goldenchamp2 said:


> "Champy" my 9 yr old golden had his second grand -mal seizure in a week. He has no history of seizures. We took him to the vet last week after the first one, had him checked out, blood work done. All results came back normal..including thyroid. I just finished reading all of the touching stories ,and the links. Thank you for all the wonderful information. The vet put Champy on phenobarbitrol.We will see how he does...


 
Not trying to second guess but check with your Vet to see if Potassium Bromide is an option. PhoneBarb is processed through the liver whereas the Bromide is not. A lot of Vets aren't necessarily up on all the epilepsy treatments and maybe not be aware of it. The bromide also has an advantage of having an extremely long half life so a missed dose is not as likely to trigger a seizure.

Many times they'll start with the Phenobarb because it is quicker to get a loading dose in and then bring in the bromide and once it is at proper levels start to reduce the phenobarb dosage.

We'll dealt with this for 11 years with Katie and became quite well versed in the various in and outs of canine epilepsy.

Regardless, I'm a glad to hear your boy is OK and getting medication for it. Those seizures are an absolute nightmare.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Champy is so gorgeous. I hope he never has another issue with seizures, but I do agree with having his thyroid sent to Dr Dodds. She is an expert in hematology in dogs. You will get lots of support here.... several have dogs with histories of seizures and I'm sure they'll be glad to give you info and support.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Your Champy is just so sweet looking. Hopefully the phenobarbital will work. Or talk to your vet about the potassium bromide. Good luck and we are here for you and Champy.


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## RedWoofs (Apr 19, 2008)

Hi. I"m just joining in this thread. SO GLAD to hear your doggie is doing better!!
For what it's worth, on the same day and also for the first time my own dog Custard who is 14 yrs old had a seizure like episode. We were in the PetER for boxing day. we got bloodwork, xrays and hydration. She sent us home. He had a 2nd episode that Friday. Since then none.
We noticed before it happened Custard was panting more. Afterwards he sleeps soundly.
I feel your situation!

Thanks for all the people positng information and links! I'm finding it helpful
Sarah


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

Champy is one fine looking 9 y/o


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## Golden Buddy (Dec 31, 2008)

I am glad to hear your dog is doing better!! My dog had 4 seisures in 19 hours, is now on PB and is doing much better. I am wondering if it could have been a Christmas gift rawhide he ate that started it. I noticed you said your dog had some holiday treats, too. I have thrown out all things that are not made in USA & switched him to Innova food. My dog is on the PB 2x day and all his blood work keeps coming back normal.


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## KatieandAngie (Dec 24, 2008)

One thing I forgot to ask/mention to those whose older dogs presented seizures for the first time, do they have any of the symptoms for cushings as that can cause seizures as well.

Symptoms can be; excessive thirst, excessive urination, incontinence, hair loss around the rear (back and tail), larger abdomen, weakness in the hind legs and others. The reason is that may of the symptoms of cushings are often written off to "old age" in dogs and consequently ignored they could be improved with proper treatment.

Just another avenue to explore.


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## goldenchamp2 (Feb 16, 2008)

I just want to update you on Champys condition. It has been one week since his second seizure, and starting the phenobarbitrol. There has NOT been another seizure(YEA!!) We also changed his eating schedule to eat twice a day instead of once in AM. We also have a one yr golden who eats 2X day so this was an easy change. Champy is doing very well, seems perky, not sleepy like I thought the pheno would make him. We are however upping the dose to full tablet tonight, rather than the 1/2 he has been on all week. We will see if this changes his habits. I will mention to Vet about Potassium Bromide as alternative to pheno once levels are up. Thanks for all the kind words, I will attach a picture of Champy @ 9. Obviously the last picture was when he was younger! My 1 yr old is helping keep Champ young..more active anyway!


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## goldenchamp2 (Feb 16, 2008)

no symptoms of cushings as you describe...but thanks for the input.


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## KatieandAngie (Dec 24, 2008)

goldenchamp2 said:


> I just want to update you on Champys condition. It has been one week since his second seizure, and starting the phenobarbitrol. There has NOT been another seizure(YEA!!) We also changed his eating schedule to eat twice a day instead of once in AM. We also have a one yr golden who eats 2X day so this was an easy change. Champy is doing very well, seems perky, not sleepy like I thought the pheno would make him. We are however upping the dose to full tablet tonight, rather than the 1/2 he has been on all week. We will see if this changes his habits. I will mention to Vet about Potassium Bromide as alternative to pheno once levels are up. Thanks for all the kind words, I will attach a picture of Champy @ 9. Obviously the last picture was when he was younger! My 1 yr old is helping keep Champ young..more active anyway!


 
Glad to hear your boy is doing OK and wishing you many more fun and seizure free years, he's a great looking dog!


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## dachrist28 (Dec 27, 2008)

Time for another update on my 11yr old. She was seizure free for 2-1/2 months, then last Sunday she had another one. This one was very mild compared to the first ones, it seemed to last for only 15 seconds or so. I guess it was better because of the pheno. We gave her the Valium shots, and she slept for the rest of the day. The next day she seemed to be back to her old self, bouncing around etc, wanting to go out and play. Then she had another seizure today, a week later. Gave her the valium shots again. Its so strange, during the week she is so playful and full of life, and then these awful seizures occur out of the blue. I wonder if the vet will increase her pheno dosage now, not sure.


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## Traz (Jan 19, 2009)

Our last Golden had seizures, they are very scary so I know how you feel there. Our dog would run in circles fast just before a seizure. It is not unusual for them to have more than one in a 24 hour period. It is because the seizure threshold is low from the 1st seizure , so if they have 1, 2-3 are not uncommon. The most dangerous is a londer lasting seizure, it causes their temperature to rise.
Be sure to get a complete thyroid panel as suggested. They probably already did, but the do need to check for diabetes also. Phenobarb may make them a little sleepy at first but they usually get use to it. They will tend to be more hungry & you will have to watch their weight while on phenobarb. It takes a while to get a theraputic blood level. Our dogs was always more frequent during any stressful times. Christmas was almost like clockwork & we don't even have a lot of company. It got to so I couldn't take her to places like the park or anything because i knew later she would have a seizure.
I do know that feeling of everything you hear. Being sleepy is usual after a seizure & even confusion. It is call postictal. As our dog got older she would lose control of her bladder during a seizure. I always kept pillows in my family room to put between her & the wall or table if she started having a seizure, just so she didn't hurt herself. DO not try to stick anyting in their mouths, it couls cause more harm than good. Also keep hands & things away because they may accidently bite during or immediately following. I tried to stay close & just let her know I was near.
Good luck. I do hope there is something they find that could be easily treated.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

So sorry to hear you girl is suddenly having seizures again after she seemed to be over them. I wrack my brains and come up with passing superstitions about whjat causes Finny to have a seizure. I won't use pine sol or any pine cleaner or give Finn any peanut butter, flagyl or acepromazine. . . Like you, I feed him twice a day, and give him treats on extra long hikes.work sessions. Generally, he is tired from exercise and we go out to dinner or somewhere and he falls into a very deep sleep.Then, if five or six of his favorite people burst through the door laughing and talking, he might have one. It's like his sleep/wake barrier gets on the fritz.


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## Tahla9999 (Nov 21, 2008)

I am so sorry you have to go through this. I'll be thinking about you.:crossfing

Are seizures common in goldens, or is it due to the breeding?


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## 3SweetGoldens (Feb 28, 2007)

I too, am so sorry your beautiful girl is going through this. I sure understand how difficult a time it is, and you feel so helpless to do anything to help them. I haven't had any seizures in my Golden's, but did have problems with my little Doxie a couple years ago. She was 12 at the time, and we never did know the reason they came on. She had 4-5 seizures, one of which was very severs. Took her to the Vet, and at that time, they did not put her on medication. For what ever reason, they stopped, as quickly as they came. She is now 14 1/2, and so far since her problems....has been seizure free. 
Wishing you and your sweet girl the very best, and hoping the seizures will again stop.


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## Duke's Momma (Mar 1, 2007)

Shoot! I know how disappointing it is when you think they are passed it and BAM, another one. Have you talked to your vet about the potassium bromide? It's a compound script and only a few pharmacys do them. The Pheno Barb caused Duke's liver to become toxic after 7 years on the stuff so now we are weaning him off of it but he's also on the potassium bromide.

Here's a few suggestions of things I do (and like someone else said, it's not uncommon to have "breakthrough" seizures)

#1. I have a little spray bottle of rubbing alcohol handy and spray that on the pads of his feet. It helps bring down his core temp.

#2. Give a dab of plain yogurt or some canned food after - a seizure is like running a marathon.

#3. Expect a little disorientation and not listening to you for a while after a seizure.

#4. Block all stairs - Duke had a seizure from sleep at the top of our stairs and seized all the way down about 10 stairs to the first landing and then down another 5 to the basement. It was horrifying. He was fine though, praise God!

#5. Have a towel handy to catch urine and if she sleeps on the bed, get a matress protector.

#6. Pray constantly! Everytime he gets his meds, I pray over him.

#7. Keep a journal detailing the type, length, prior activities, etc.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this. We love our fur baby cuddle duds and so hate to see them suffer. Which, actually, she's not suffering during, but we want to be at Duke's side when he wakes up and wonders who in the h**l peed on him!


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