# Winter Field Training



## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

That time of the year that makes training hard, except for those lucky people in the south.

Working on drills mainly during the week. Sunup is about 11 am, sundown 3:30 pm. Training only at lunchtime during the week. Weekends are training group days. Riot has been running mainly master hunt test marks. I move the line back so he can run the same marks to make them longer. Also working on getting ready for our next obedience trial in March.

Planning ahead for master hunt tests, qualifying field trials for Riot. More spaniel tests for Lucy. Maybe I'll run Riot on the last spaniel hunt tests of the season, which are after the retriever season is over. I think he would love to find little birds in the brush.

What all does everyone do on these short cold days? (Or not so cold depending on where you are.)


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Winter schedule:
-Feed and air on weekdays.
-Train or hunt, feed and air on weekends.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

it got unusually cold here so water work is out right now. Doing lots of bigger dog concepts along with maintenance work. Mainly keeping proof tight and exposing him more and more to uncomfortable set ups like going tight behind the gun as singles and so on. Proof is getting consistent with his training which relaxes me. This has really allowed me to focus more on my own handling. I have a hard time relaxing when I'm nervous about whether he will struggle on something out in the field and how I will correct him for mistakes. Now I feel like I know what to expect with him and what to do if he has a problem with the set up. After two years of this stuff things feel like they are finally starting to make sense and even better becoming more mechanical and instinctual. finally!
Come soon I'll be down in FL with Anney training on her warmer water and drink some margharitas!


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Training is nearly non-existent right now. Today has temps in the 20s and the ground is covered with snow. Difficult to even walk the dogs because the streets are salted. Hunting when I can.


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## Edward Lee Nelson (Jan 2, 2017)

Perfect time of year for my 10 month old. Drills, Drills, Drills during the week and marks on weekends. Just finished baseball yesterday and now the single T and long lining drills ( I am big on that). If I can get, the T's done. wagon wheel, and small handling blinds done by the end of March and back to water in April for FTW and swim bys etc we should be ready for the fall derbies. Hopefully, but Im not on a schedule just plans. It's all fun and stress relieving!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

gdgli said:


> Training is nearly non-existent right now. Today has temps in the 20s and the ground is covered with snow. Difficult to even walk the dogs because the streets are salted. Hunting when I can.


The EPA stopped Alaska a few years back from using salt on the roads. We can use salt only on driveways and small parking lots. I’ve kind of forgotten what the effect that salt has on paws. Have you thought about booties? We use them when the trails are icy, they would work on salt too. I pay $2/ea for my fleece booties made here in town. If you’re interested I could mail you a few.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Alaska7133 said:


> The EPA stopped Alaska a few years back from using salt on the roads. We can use salt only on driveways and small parking lots. I’ve kind of forgotten what the effect that salt has on paws. Have you thought about booties? We use them when the trails are icy, they would work on salt too. I pay $2/ea for my fleece booties made here in town. If you’re interested I could mail you a few.


The salt is miserable. I have thought about booties.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

gdgli said:


> The salt is miserable. I have thought about booties.


Try the Pawz balloon boots. They work really well. Shala doesn't pay them a lick of attention. I put them on, and we go. The very first time she had them on, she did the whole, what is on my feet thing, sort of lifting them up, but as soon as we were out the door, she totally forgot about them. All the dogs in my neighbourhood wear them. The salt here is ridiculous.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

For us, winter training is weekend training. :| No swimming until at least May. 

During the week, she plays ball and runs, to keep up her fitness. I've started doing water treadmill with her, too. (Which she LOVES). 

Weekends, we train on Saturdays (as long as the snow isn't too deep and it's not dangerous) and will be doing club trials on Sundays. If the snow is bad, we actually use plowed parking lots and do T work or shorter drills.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

How's everyone doing on their winter training?

We finally got some new snow yesterday! It's so nice to have fresh powder. Dogs are so much happier and the trails are now a lot less icier. 

Riot and I continue to work on blinds over the top of a previous area of a mark. Or a blind between 2 previous marks. Or a blind back siding a mark. I have also occasionally have a mark thrown, then sent him on a blind, then go back and pick up the mark. He's got an excellent memory. My friends like running triples all the time (hunt test distances). I'm trying to not get so hung up on triples all the time, and instead running the set up as singles. Not to annoy anyone, but I want to make sure I'm getting good work on marking. Riot is so fast! I have to keep that darn whistle in my mouth all the time. He has an excellent whistle sit.

Then last weekend, someone new I was training with, suggested that I have a quieter whistle for up close work, then gradually get louder with my whistle as the dog gets farther away. The guy that told me this only runs field trials. Boy his comment really made my head spin. That's a whole new element of blowing a whistle that I hadn't planned on adding to my repertoire. Heck I'm just happy I can finally blow loud enough for my dog to hear me. Plus the whole frozen whistle in the winter thing is frustrating. After talking it over with another forum member, he said, blow the dang whistle and don't worry about what that other guy said. So that's what I'm doing. Anyone else hear something crazy like that?

Connie Cleveland will be here this weekend for an obedience seminar. Riot and I are one of the working teams. I wonder if she'll see any resemblance between Riot and her Eli (Riot's great grand-sire)?

Last week I bought a bunch of chukars for summer training. Riot will be sitting on the flush by the middle of summer. I won't have another dog that chases flushed birds.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

You should listen to the guy. He knows what he’s talking about on the whistles. One of the reasons you do this is up close particularly if the dog is a young dog if you blow a loud whistle up front they think they are in a lot of trouble. Plus it would have been because they were taking the wrong line and that’s something you got to be careful correcting at a young age. The softer whistle helps with that. Plus if they hear a harder whistle at a farther distance or a critical point it will mean a lot more than it would if they always hear it


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Use the same whistle. Don't confuse the dog. 

A whistle is like a musical instrument. It isn't just something that makes noise. HOW you blow the whistle matters and the dog can most certainly tell the difference. Variation in pitch and timbre are most certainly heard by the dog. 

HOW you blow the whistle matters.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I only use one whistle for retriever hunt tests and field trials. I use a different whistle for spaniel hunt tests, and I use the whistle differently also.

To a certain extent I use different loudness of whistle when I communicate. I do a come in whistle differently than a find the bird, it's right around where you are. I use a very firm whistle when I want him to listen on a blind. 

It's the volume of sound I have the most amount of trouble with. Louder or softer is hard. Heck getting loud enough has been hard enough for me... 

This guy was suggesting that you get louder the farther out your dog is. I'm saying that I have enough of a hard time get a large volume of sound out of my whistle, that I don't want to have to think about something else now too. When I hit the whistle on a blind, all I want is a loud whistle, as loud as I can get since I have so much trouble making a large enough sound as it is. My whistle sounds are weak.

I think a lot of women have the same problem getting a loud enough whistle. I'm not sure why. I swear at the last junior test I judged, I wanted everyone to get their whistles out and practice before they came to the line with their dogs.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

He is right, How you blow your whistle should have some meaning and connotation to the dog. Remember --- your dog should think that the whistle means "WRONG." If you are on a blind and going in a certain direction and get whistled, you are going in the wrong direction, you are going to change directions. Whistle is an insult. A loud whistle is a big insult. Dogs (hopefully) learn to become sensitive to this, as you go on in your training your dog will probably get corrections for taking bad initial lines which start with a loud whistle up close, and perhaps a recall, collar correction or big cast. They pretty quickly learn to be really sensitive to a whistle up close, so if you're in a test and need a whistle quickly better make it a soft one so the dog isn't intimidated and can keep his head on straight. On the flip side, a really strong whistle at the right time can save you in a text/trial if the dog knows to take that more seriously.
Some people have trouble with the whistle because they don't use their tongue to start and stop the sound. Every whistle sounds like a traffic cop and it's hard to get any crispness to it.

Haha Edit to add : If I'm a junior judge I'm more likely to tell handlers to go hang their whistles back on the rear view mirror. You aren't going to handle in junior anyways, and that come in whistle is just giving the handler something to do. The dog is going to bring the bird back regardless of the whistle, and I'd rather not listen to 160 feckless whistles in my left ear all day!!!


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Crappy weather here. Getting out when we can but spending a lot more obedience training. I hope February weather is better for training here. Ugh, I wish in could head south to train for a couple of weeks.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Anney you are always so much more eloquent than me, ha ha! That's all I was thinking but it was so hard to type that all out in the field while I was training, ha ha. 

And this week we were able to get in some water work little corners but today it was pretty warm so we were able to do a small pond with more of a swim. Luckily Proof remembered enough of his water training to do the set up right. It wasn't anything super hard but it was all about refreshing on the rules of the water in a very black and white manner. It was good for them. Then we ran a long blind using the short retired gunner from earlier. He sat and shot a dry pop. We had moved the mat so the dogs were taking a perpendicular line that crossed over the old fall from that short gunner previously. The old fall had landed in tall cover so I'm sure it was nice and stinky, ha ha. I wasn't sure what proof would? Would he put his head down and hunt? Well, he tried to flare the old fall. I got in quite a few corrections because of his scalloping away from the gunner and old fall. But I was able to get him out of the water and take a cast right over the old fall (he was never far off line because I really kept up with his mistakes) but he just ran right through that fall and on to the blind. I was happy about that. Overall it wasn't too bad. These all age blinds are killers but little by little we are starting to see some steady progress.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Connie Cleveland has such a great obedience seminar. This is my second one. She had Eli, Riot’s great grand sire. And they have a lot of the same attitudes in the field and appear to handle Birds the same way. But Riot has more of an off switch than Eli had. During the seminar Riot was quite content to lie under my chair and sleep or just watch the other dogs. He is so calm in a loud chaotic environment like an arena. That was quite surprising to Connie how mellow Riot can be. We did discuss whistling, and she did make the suggestion about voice commands in the field also. Like don’t say back if they just need a slight change in direction. The more change in direction, the louder the Back. It wasn’t just sound or loudness of the whistle but the voice also.

Again, heck, I’m just happy that I’m finally blowing the whistle loud enough that the dog can hear me. The finesse will have to come with time.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Alaska7133 said:


> We did discuss whistling, and she did make the suggestion about voice commands in the field also. Like don’t say back if they just need a slight change in direction. The more change in direction, the louder the Back. It wasn’t just sound or loudness of the whistle but the voice also.


Not so sure I agree with that. Unless you are in the back yard doing the T and Double T a Back is never a straight back. Back means turn around and make a slight change of direction. The more change in direction needed the more you use the angle back. Normally the casts are silent unless you are trying to get thru a certain factor or distraction. 

For example, Sunday we worked on poison bird blinds, Bumper thrown R to L at 80 yards towards the Blind #1 which was couple feet to the left of the PB at 108 yards. Blind #2 was at 200 yards behind the thrower angle cross over a road. 
On the first blind Belle took a nice initial line, looked like she will slightly flare the PB to the left but she tricked me into quickly changing direction to the PB. Strong Whistle Stop. Her behind was right on the PB. At that instance a Left Verbal Back was necessary to emphasize to her you do not pick up the bumper you are almost sitting on behind you, but turn to the left and go deeper. The verbal was necessary to get her out of trouble. 

On the second blind, IF that road would have become a wall and instead of crossing she would have run along it. Stop and verbal angle back to get over that road. 

Mostly I practice with low whistle sounds. The lower the sound in practice and the more impact the louder sound becomes when you need it. I used to think I had a low toot and always whistled loudly - to the point that when I needed a loud whistle I did not have any more to give. 

In casting I have many holes. One I have to remember to cast slower. Stop, count to three and then cast. Two I have to be more aware of the environment such as wind, distance and moving water. The farther the dog and the more wind I have to remember to give the verbal needed a second before I actually cast to allow the voice to reach the dog by the time I give the cast.


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## Edward Lee Nelson (Jan 2, 2017)

Annie and Claudia gave me some thoughts after reading your posts:
Annie's Quote: Remember --- your dog should think that the whistle means "WRONG" 
I have never thought of it this way! I have been doing this dog thing since 5th grader being a pooper scooper and I never thought of it this way. I have always thought that you and the dog are a team of trust and a whistle is like" Ok boss! I'll stop and trust you just get me to the bird" I know a whistle stop is pressure. I also know dogs take bad lines and need to get back on it, but I want my dogs to run blinds with confidence and hard so I have always seen it as the whistle to be a positive move and want my dogs to think so also.

Claudia's Quote: Unless you are in the back yard doing the T and Double T a Back is never a straight back. Back means turn around and make a slight change of direction.
I know people have different ways of silent verses verbal casts. I have basically used silent as getting back on line which is mostly angles and verbal as get your butt moving which is mostly right or left backs. BACKS are also straight back. So many mistakes are made in a FT or HT off a point where the dog should have been stopped and a verbal back is needed. Handlers allow the dog to go over the point and lose them. I always stop on a point(maybe even a double whistle) to get the dog to concentrate to to go back in the water the same direction he was going.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Edward Lee Nelson said:


> Annie and Claudia gave me some thoughts after reading your posts:
> Annie's Quote: Remember --- your dog should think that the whistle means "WRONG"
> I have never thought of it this way! I have been doing this dog thing since 5th grader being a pooper scooper and I never thought of it this way. I have always thought that you and the dog are a team of trust and a whistle is like" Ok boss! I'll stop and trust you just get me to the bird" I know a whistle stop is pressure. I also know dogs take bad lines and need to get back on it, but I want my dogs to run blinds with confidence and hard so I have always seen it as the whistle to be a positive move and want my dogs to think so also.


How do you improve momentum on blinds? Run blinds requiring more whistles or fewer whistles? That should tell you the mental state of what a whistle means.

Yeah the dog needs to be a team player and follow the coach and maintain a mentality of biddable cooperation BUT .... whistle means you're wrong and I'm gonna tell you how to fix it


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Hmm, for me a _big_ “back” with my cast will cause my dogs to dig straight back and not take as much angle as given. I tend to walk out a cast if I really need a big angle. This is usually followed by the comment I was way too late on my whistle.


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## Edward Lee Nelson (Jan 2, 2017)

Annie, I do no want my dogs to ever think a whistle is wrong. I want them to have confidence in sitting on a whistle without thinking they made a mistake. For instance: just finished a double T drill with my 11 month old. I had her stop 4 times to the back pile alternating right and left backs, her tail was wagging all the way through on every whistle not thinking she was making a mistake by stopping on the whistle. After that she ran the same pile through full blast without a hesitation. That is confidence!

I love working with young pups. My confidence on blinds starts at 4-5 months old with dead bird, dead bird back lining drills to buckets extending out to 300 yrds now in between marks, it doesn't matter. I use birds and bumpers. I also PULL dogs out for blinds instead of PUSH them out with alot of BB blinds, pattern blinds etc. This builds a lot of confidence as the dog progresses though training and they learn to run a blind as hard as a mark.
I really haven't seen much difference in more or less whistles in my blinds over the years relating to confidence, except I know there is a beginning, middle and end of the blind and the end is usually the toughest and where most handler mistakes are made. Running blinds is all about the initial line, that is why I over do lining. I know there are a lot of different ways people interpret blinds etc. but this system has always worked for me.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Edward Lee Nelson said:


> I know there is a beginning, middle and end of the blind and the end is usually the toughest and where most handler mistakes are made. Running blinds is all about the initial line


Yes! 
Except the middle is killing me right now. Probably because most of suction is in the middle. I’m moving up from SH to MH.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Interesting conversation. 

I also work on tons and tons of motivation and confidence lining as puppies. AT first they think that sitting is more about a game for them. I like that. Also, I line my pups very EARLY so they don't get so buggy at the line as they are really learning harder stuff. I want them comfortable with the whole dead bird next to me stuff. This is all before they have been conditioned or forced. 

But at a certain point they learn that when they get a whistle they are going off course to the blind. It is because they are going in the WRONG direction therefore they are wrong. It doesn't have to be a big ordeal it just signifies they need to stop and take my cast but if they don't then we are going to have some issues to work through. I don't think Anney means that the dog is a piece of junk and is just so wrong we should go out and give him the green needle. I think its just a word (wrong) that means the dog is not doing it right. 

As far as saying back. Well, when you are teaching force to back the dogs get pressure. When they are running blinds the verbal back in their mind means get moving. Often times if a dog is running a blind and you use back in a loud voice they could spaz and will overcast because of their earlier training. For my dog if I need him to get through a keyhole I give a silent back because he will just turn and take that back cast. If I need him to hurry up and get out of the danger zone (like a poison bird or running over an old fall) I would use the verbal back to push them out of there quickly. Sometimes he will take the straight back but most of the time he will overcast. 

what we all need to keep in mind is that all dogs learn things individually according to how they were trained. So really all of this is useless unless all the dogs were trained the same way. 

But it is interesting to hear about how others train. I like to read all about it!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

OK first off double T is only teaching the mechanics of blind running, not the mentality. It's just obedience. There really is no reason a dog would understand the connotation of a whistle at that stage.
If your dog is running a cold blind and is giving you cast refusals with multiple dig backs, doesn't your whistles beyond the first one mean NO - STOP - YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. And didn't that first whistle come because the dog was headed in the wrong direction?
Think of the dog's mental state at THAT INSTANT it hears the whistle -- not it's mental state in running blinds overall. Detail vs. big picture. The whistle is not a positive the moment you hit it. You're killing the dog's momentum and telling him he's going in the wrong direction.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Shelby in the same keyhole I’m going to use a verbal back at the same time I cast and my dogs should dig straight back.
I could give a big angle cast and delay my “back” and that should build some momentum while my dog is hopefully holding the angled cast.
Interesting thread.


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## Edward Lee Nelson (Jan 2, 2017)

I don't know if dogs who run with confidence on blinds really think they are doing something wrong on a whistle sit when they are off course unless maybe getting into a area of a PB blind or going to a mark that the blind is in between. I tend to think it is more that they trust you and will follow your lead, even if pressure is involved. I could be wrong though. Never  On the verbal back vs silent back it is all how the dog is trained and how the dog relates to us. I basically use the same cues/casts as MOP Just think when back was for marks, blinds and fTP.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

I'm lovin' this discussion!!!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Edward Lee Nelson said:


> Annie and Claudia gave me some thoughts after reading your posts:
> Annie's Quote: Remember --- your dog should think that the whistle means "WRONG"
> I have never thought of it this way! I have been doing this dog thing since 5th grader being a pooper scooper and I never thought of it this way. I have always thought that you and the dog are a team of trust and a whistle is like" Ok boss! I'll stop and trust you just get me to the bird" I know a whistle stop is pressure. I also know dogs take bad lines and need to get back on it, but I want my dogs to run blinds with confidence and hard so I have always seen it as the whistle to be a positive move and want my dogs to think so also.
> 
> ...



LOL I agree with your first point on whistle does not mean the dog is wrong. They should have the confidence to stop. 


haha on the second point. Yes people have different ways of casting. I follow Lardy mostly. With your example I would prefer the dog to make a slight change of direction into the big water when I stop on the point. You cannot handle a dog that you cannot see. In a test I would always stop on a point and give an inward back cast into the big water as opposed to a outward cast away from the water - even if that moves them slightly off line.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

K9-Design said:


> OK first off double T is only teaching the mechanics of blind running, not the mentality. It's just obedience. There really is no reason a dog would understand the connotation of a whistle at that stage.
> If your dog is running a cold blind and is giving you cast refusals with multiple dig backs, doesn't your whistles beyond the first one mean NO - STOP - YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. And didn't that first whistle come because the dog was headed in the wrong direction?
> Think of the dog's mental state at THAT INSTANT it hears the whistle -- not it's mental state in running blinds overall. Detail vs. big picture. The whistle is not a positive the moment you hit it. You're killing the dog's momentum and telling him he's going in the wrong direction.


from the handler point of view it could be seen as a correction but it should not be from the dog's point of view. In your scenario the correction would be whistle nick whistle. Count to three and then give the cast again. If another cast refusal, then again whistle nick whistle, count to three and cast with a nick or walk closer to the dog and then simplify the blind. The nick is the correction but not the whistle itself. 

There is also where the tone of your whistle becomes important. As well as the tone of your voice. 

I have tried with my flattie to do blinds. To her a whistle is viewed as a correction and she gets intimidated by it. I have tried small toot, cheerleader tone and everything. I guess you cannot teach an old dog new tricks. If she lines the blind she is happy, but if not you can kiss that blind goodbye. One thing I have yet to try ---- there was this lady with a poodle at the judging seminar who had a weird sounding whistle. It was more like a chirping happy sound. I wanted to ask her what kind of whistle it was but she was very unapproachable.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

see here I think we all have different dog type personalities. 

I WANT Proof to think he is wrong when I blow the whistle. This dog has so much confidence on blinds (probably did too much lining as a pup) that he never thinks he is wrong. There are several people on this forum and in this thread that have watched proof run blinds in training. This dog doesn't like to stop. He thinks he knows exactly where he is going and I'm there just to say back. The rest should be left up to him...ha ha ha. So for me, I need him to realize that he isn't always right and when I blow the whistle he just needs to go where I tell him because he is wrong. 

I think I know where you guys are coming from. I have seen some dogs (mostly young dogs) cower when the whistle is blown. So I guess it is important that they understand that being wrong isn't a big deal, they just need to change direction. When I blow the whistle Proof stops and and his tail is wagging in that crazy way and his eyes are bright. He has a whole mischievous demeanor rippling through his body. I am sure I could ruin any dog on a blind but it would take a LOT to ruin Proof's confidence on blinds. I mean I don't even know what it would take honestly because he is just so **** confident. 

The point is not all dogs need to be uplifted in training. Sometimes that actually makes things harder for both the dog and the handler.


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## Edward Lee Nelson (Jan 2, 2017)

Claudia,

I agree you can't handle a dog you can't see, that's why I stop on the point and have the dog concentrate on me. I agree with literal casting to a point but there are other obstacles that comes into play such as: 1) knowing your dog: Your dogs grandfather always wanted to go out to sea, I had to fight him not to go so I would not give him a cast to the big water side, I had to keep him tight, if big water was on the left you wouldn't see a left back or angle from me or he would be gone. 2) How your dog was/is trained: My left and right backs will only make a slight difference in the angle they go back so I am more apt to give a silent non-verbal angle with out a step to get the change of direction I want or need.,A lot of it in a trial is which way the dog turns best( give a back with no hand signals and see which way the dog turns to find out) and again knowing your dog.3) Factors such as wind, current and if you are lucky enough to see the mistakes of the other dogs in front of you also play a factor. BUT you should not overcompensate and the goal is a direct line to the bird.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I like to think that the whistle means "You now have to change direction" and as a consequence momentum. Disclaimer: I certainly am not the best at running blinds.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

MillionsofPeaches said:


> see here I think we all have different dog type personalities.
> 
> I WANT Proof to think he is wrong when I blow the whistle. This dog has so much confidence on blinds (probably did too much lining as a pup) that he never thinks he is wrong. There are several people on this forum and in this thread that have watched proof run blinds in training. This dog doesn't like to stop. He thinks he knows exactly where he is going and I'm there just to say back. The rest should be left up to him...ha ha ha. So for me, I need him to realize that he isn't always right and when I blow the whistle he just needs to go where I tell him because he is wrong.
> 
> ...


Heck yah! Lucy hates it when I hit the whistle. She knows she wrong. Riot on the other hand runs with wild abondone. He’s so freaking fast. Then sometimes he thinks he knows where the blind is an anticipates the command. Riot definitely doesn’t lack confidence. Lucy does. Every dog is different. I do get irritated when I see dogs that bark on a blind, in anticipation, hurry up already!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Yes Lee, in training you emphasize the literal cast and in a trial you use the cast that will take you to the blind the cleanest possible way. LOL Reason why in the Farmer/Lardy symposium it was stated that trials un-train a trained dog. 

Interesting about Jay. Belle used to seek water (failed her first master by going on the land blind by the water into the water - well that and me knocking the judge with the gun in the head. Not intentionally, I was watching Belle on the mark and walked backwards to put the gun back since no one came to pick take the gun, did not see the judge move from my right to my left behind me walking straight into the gun. I thought he was joking when he said I should be DQ-ed for that but he got very serious and I got pretty flustered and frustrated. The co-judged apologized profusely). So since then we did tune up drills with by the water blinds, big water blinds, shore line blinds, channel blinds etc. LOL all that only to jump over the corner of water at B1 and fail another MH test. Plain example of where you give the Over hoping the dog will take a wide angle back as she could already smell the duck. 

Belle was dog #2. Rose was # 33. By then I noticed that the line to the blind was more and more moved to the water shore instead of at the gun station. LOL Rose goes into the deep water. And on B2 she took the island and from there could not handle her because I could not see her. Banana line to both blinds and we were out. 

Back to training this spring once Rose recoups from the Mast Cell tumor removal surgery she just had.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

I have two very different dogs and I have more experience now.
Dog 1-I did everything I could to build and keep momentum. Lots of memory blinds and drills where she knew the picture and could just go. She got a lot of leeway before correction came in to play. (She also was my first dog so that I’m sure factored into correction) She turned out to be a very good blind running dog. 
Dog 2-I watch for a loss of momentum loss but I have yet to see it. I have to be on my game running blinds with him or he will try and take over. He is on an extremely short leash before correction comes into play. He is still a work in progress so this year we shall see how good his blinds get. 
My whistle means STOP. Dog 1 probably didn’t get a correction with the 2nd quick whistle. Dog 2 does get correction on 2nd quick whistle.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Yes I can see Claudia if your dog doesn’t get wet on blind 1 it would have put you behind the 8 ball. Was blind 2 by invitation? 
Blind 2’s line looks by the island so depending on the judge touching the island would get you out here or for the more generous judges it better be a quick handle right back into water. 
That would be a nice pond to play on.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

MillionsofPeaches said:


> see here I think we all have different dog type personalities.
> 
> I WANT Proof to think he is wrong when I blow the whistle.


This cracks me up because I'm pretty sure Winter is thinking "ok what do you want me to do" and Flyer is thinking "what the heck are you doing, I've got this!  The yin and yang of personalities.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

hollyk said:


> Yes I can see Claudia if your dog doesn’t get wet on blind 1 it would have put you behind the 8 ball. Was blind 2 by invitation?
> Blind 2’s line looks by the island so depending on the judge touching the island would get you out here or for the more generous judges it better be a quick handle right back into water.
> That would be a nice pond to play on.


Yup, Belle did not get to do B2. I thought about starting her with B2 but B1 was hot and I chickened out. I was more worried about B1 that she would roll in that little muddy water instead of jumping over it. Since I had no chance to watch another dog run before Belle I asked the judges if the starting line was the same as for the marks or if we had area to move. Judge said you start at the gun stand. She was so cute when I stopped her. She looked at me, looked at the duck. I sat there and then she looked at me with devilish eyes and squirming body like I know a better way. 

It was a neat test. One of the most challenging tests I have seen. The first series was really tough as well. Live, learn, train and then just go back and do it.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

In general when running a test if they give you the option of those two blinds to run in either order, pick the one with the most water. Get your dog thinking water. Not only that but so many dogs are used to repeating blinds they are more likely to take the same initial or a similar line to the second blind as they took on the first. Lots easier to handle out of water than into it. In training, run it in the other order - less watery first.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

K9-Design said:


> In general when running a test if they give you the option of those two blinds to run in either order, pick the one with the most water. Get your dog thinking water. Not only that but so many dogs are used to repeating blinds they are more likely to take the same initial or a similar line to the second blind as they took on the first. Lots easier to handle out of water than into it. In training, run it in the other order - less watery first.


Judges did not indicate an order. I assumed that you could do either blind. I did not ask as I already decided that since the short blind was hot (and the wind was left to right) I was going to do it first. Funny how things are. Was worried more about Rose (not a very water enthusiast) on that blind than Belle (who seeks water). Plus they just had the two water marks.


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