# Thoughts on pacing?



## FlyingQuizini

Hi, All.

I'd love some feedback on a dog who paces. My newly adopted dude, Saber, paces when we're on leashed-walks. It seems to be limited to when on-leash and he's having to move slower than his preferred normal gait. If he stops to smell something and I keep going to the end of the leash - so that he has to hustle to catch up with me - he'll gait normally until he's back at the end of the leash out in front and has to slow down so as not to make the leash tight.

I don't really have an eye for structure. Conformation isn't my thing. Though, before I agreed to adopt him, I had a chiro vet and a rehab vet check him out and they didn't really see anything abnormal - other than a slightly short range of motion in the rear. (They both tested his rear legs - nice extension in the hips, etc.)

I'm wondering if he's maybe out of alignment? He's a former SAR dog in training, so he was climbing up/on/over all sorts of stuff. Wouldn't surprise me if he's a bit out of whack from that. But I don't know if being out of alignment can cause pacing.

Any thoughts? It drives me NUTS to watch it on a walk. It's such an unnatural way for a dog to move. GAH!

Thanks!

Stephanie and Saber


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## FlyingQuizini

*Pacing?*

Duplicate posts from threads being merged.


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## KeaColorado

Is walking off-leash an option? It sounds to me like he's pacing because he hasn't figured out how to gait at your speed. 

I went to a seminar a few years ago by Dr. Chris Zink and I vaguely remember her using lengths of pvc pipe and other objects laying across the ground perpendicular to the dog's path of motion to correct pacing issues. Here's her website, maybe you could e-mail her and see which resource (book, dvd, etc.) she would recommend? It was a really great seminar, and if you have a chance to go see her in person, you should totally do it. Canine Sports Productions Books page - Canine Sports Productions


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## Alaska7133

I have a friend with a golden that paces. She has her GCh in conformation and obedience and hunt test titles. Great dog. But at certain speeds she paces. It has alway driven the owner nuts, especially in the conformation ring. I've noticed when we field train together and she's coming back with a bird. She's slower on the recall with birds and paces her way back. The owner tried to get her motivated in the return to keep her pace up so that she doesn't pace.

At this time is it causing you a problem or are you just trying to figure out why he does it? The above dog does it between walking and running.


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## Karen519

*Quizini*

I really don't know but my guess is that maybe SAR trained them that way.
Can you google a SAR organization and send them an email. Did you adopt him from a foster?
They might know.
I am hoping someone on here can answer this!


http://books.google.com/books?id=9e...a=X&ei=JFmLU4i_Mo6bkwXYoIG4DQ&ved=0CFsQ6AEwCA
Guide to Search and Rescue Dogs - Page 76 - Google Books Result
books.google.com/books?isbn=0764124188
Angela Eaton Snovak - 2004 - ‎Pets
Many dogs work off lead in wilderness search and rescue while trailing, although ... lead has such an important role in a search dog's training, its purpose should be understood. ... The pace of the dog can also be directed using the long lead.

I googled do dogs trained to do Search and Rescue pace? Lots came up.


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## Karen519

*Quizini*

Duplicate post


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## Megora

Stephanie - there is a fairly long video out there by Rachel Page Elliot (I think?). Where she goes into structure and understanding what "causes" a dog's gait to be off. What she touched on was overly developed and/or better angulated in the rear and short in the front or things like that will lead to dogs being more comfortable pacing. 

I think they also get into those habits based on how they are handled with the leash. 

Talked with people like Adele and another golden lady who is more conformation minded + works a bit more to get the trot while working with her dogs - regardless of what they do on their own time - And they do things like getting the dogs to start with a hop or taking a big step at the start of a heeling pattern... there's ways of working a dog out of a pacing habit.

The reason why they work on getting a trot for obedience is getting smoother heeling, less chance of the judge noticing bumps or gaps.

*** Should probably add, I don't care if the dogs trot or pace while we're walking. I have trained Bertie to trot when we are working in obedience or conformation. Clicker training or similar usually does the job.


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## GoldenCamper

Normal human walking speed does not equate to normal dog walking speed hence the pace. Don't worry about it.


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## TheZ's

My Zoe tended to pace when heeling. I found that using a somewhat quicker, more energetic, but even pace myself would bring her up to a trot. 

If you haven't already you might take a look at Marcia Schlehr's "A Study of the Golden Retriever", also known as "The Blue Book", available from the GRCA. she says: "The pace is sometimes called a fatigue gait, as it is often used by tired or out-of-condition dogs. (Doesn't sound like your situation.) . . . Some dogs may pace because of neurological deficit that interferes with the more complex coordination required for the trot." (Also doesn't sound like your situation.) The Blue Book has some good information on structure, movement and other aspects of conformation.


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## hotel4dogs

Most dogs pace because the more natural gait, the trot, is for some reason uncomfortable for them at that moment. Often it's caused by something structural, I believe most often in a dog whose legs are a bit long in relationship to the length of his body. They pace to avoid the legs interfering with each other, which you would see in a trot. 
Here's a great website:
Pace
"...The pace is uncommon among domestic quadrupeds, but it is a good endurance gait. Dogs and other domestic animals generally pace because of fatigue or a physical weakness. Dogs that are obese or out of condition often pace rather than trot. Also, dogs that have problems with interference, may find that it is easier to pace than to crab-run."
and from another one:
"...There is very little available data that describe the force parameters of the pace. The pace is also seen in dogs that are tired, out of condition, or have a diagnosable orthopaedic problem. This gait may allow the animal to change ground-reaction forces and maintain the same efficiency of motion but with a different type of effort, resulting in a more comfortable position for the dog...." (http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/saortho/chapter_91/91mast.htm#normals )

Is he on the leggy side, and short in the body? That might be a simple explanation. Another very simple explanation (and one which I lean toward) is that he has all of his muscles tensed up trying to do what you are asking of him (walk with a loose leash, at a slower pace than he finds comfortable), and it makes it hard for him to trot.


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## cubbysan

I would not worry about it. I had a pet quality Great Pyrenees that I took to handling class. Always paced when I had him on leash, only time I could get him not to pace was if I put him on a lunge line like a horse or if a professional handler handled him.

He lived to be 13, very old for a Great Pyrenees. Never had any him issues or arthritis until the last six months of his life.


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## FlyingQuizini

GoldenCamper said:


> Normal human walking speed does not equate to normal dog walking speed hence the pace. Don't worry about it.


None of my other dogs, and only a very small percentage of my client dogs pace when on a leashed walk. I will sometimes see it in a tired dog, but not as a general rule associated with normal dog pace being slower than normal human pace. And I happen to walk at a pretty fast clip. 

It's like he just can't get the hang of a comfortable stride at that speed. And because it's not something I see often, it sticks out like a sore thumb and drives me nuts! :yuck: 

I'll start of with some chiropractic. If he's out of alignment, that could contribute to discomfort associated with a trot at my speed.


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## Jennifer1

My understanding is that some dogs are just natural pacers. My girl paces unless I pick up the speed to a very brisk walk. My lab never paces even at my slowest. My understanding is that it is a lazy stride.


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## FlyingQuizini

hotel4dogs said:


> Most dogs pace because the more natural gait, the trot, is for some reason uncomfortable for them at that moment. Often it's caused by something structural, I believe most often in a dog whose legs are a bit long in relationship to the length of his body. They pace to avoid the legs interfering with each other, which you would see in a trot.
> Here's a great website:
> Pace
> "...The pace is uncommon among domestic quadrupeds, but it is a good endurance gait. Dogs and other domestic animals generally pace because of fatigue or a physical weakness. Dogs that are obese or out of condition often pace rather than trot. Also, dogs that have problems with interference, may find that it is easier to pace than to crab-run."
> and from another one:
> "...There is very little available data that describe the force parameters of the pace. The pace is also seen in dogs that are tired, out of condition, or have a diagnosable orthopaedic problem. This gait may allow the animal to change ground-reaction forces and maintain the same efficiency of motion but with a different type of effort, resulting in a more comfortable position for the dog...." (http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/saortho/chapter_91/91mast.htm#normals )
> 
> Is he on the leggy side, and short in the body? That might be a simple explanation. Another very simple explanation (and one which I lean toward) is that he has all of his muscles tensed up trying to do what you are asking of him (walk with a loose leash, at a slower pace than he finds comfortable), and it makes it hard for him to trot.



He's built very much like Quiz in terms of height/length. He has more mass than Quiz did. Seems proportionate to my eye.

I'll continue with my plan of action of addressing via chiropractic - see if that help change anything.

It's just so strange to look at. Seriously - drives me nuts! Do we know if pacing can *create* problems? I would think there's a lot of compensatory stuff going on in a dog who is pacing...


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## Megora

FlyingQuizini said:


> I'll continue with my plan of action of addressing via chiropractic - see if that help change anything.


I thought you had him in to the chiropractor already and ruled out any possible issues. Definitely - get him in! 

I was a skeptic when it came to chiropractors, but the lady here worked wonders with Jacks' back. I was truly scared a while back when he couldn't do the doggy pushups (ie sitting up or begging pose, raising himself up to a stand from the sit up, back down to a sit - repeat). He couldn't sit up without falling over at his worst. Right now, he's back to being able to do all that. 

Otherwise - just repeating, you would not believe how many dogs learn to pace because of how they've been handled. Meaning, that whoever worked with him before you could have taught him to pace and constantly reinforced that gait based on how they walked him and what they praised/rewarded for.


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## mylissyk

I'm pretty clueless about this, but is pacing when they move both feet forward on the same side at the same time?


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## Megora

Yes.  

The longer the dog's body, the more they swing the rib cage and/or roll they have.....


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## Maxs Mom

I might get slammed for this but....

Gabby is a pacer. She didn't early but she is faster and stronger than I am so on leash walks it's the lazy gait she gets into. Bridget explained for obedience if they are driving from behind they won't pace. That being said Gabby paces when heeling. My trainer and I discussed it and she said she's known many a dog to pace and get 200's. I told my trainer this is my first dog I'm having enough issues handling what I need know without worrying about that. 

To fix the issue, you need to get the haunch lowered and driving. I don't know how. Gabby barely trots in the fast exercise. 

I bike run Gabby as often as I can that way she gets strong trot work. I'm too slow to keep her from pacing. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Megora

Ann - that is a great explanation and absolutely agree with it. 

I think the idea behind the "hop" and various other tricks that people do is getting the dogs starting out driving forward with their rears. And generally once they start out "right" they continue to flow forward at a trot. 

I was at a show this past weekend and the conformation judge asked everyone to go slowly. And whatever he was looking at, I was guessing he was looking for flaws in the dogs movement. <- Bertie trotted thank goodness! If we had shown a year ago and before I actually figured out how to work with him to keep him trotting even at a slower pace, it would have been bad.


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## K9-Design

It is a comfortable, energy-saving gait for many dogs. It is not a problem for them, and nothing to worry about.
Now as far as training/showing, I won't allow it during heeling. I think it makes for a lazy heeler and is unattractive. We even trot in slow pace, it looks like dressage  Cute stuff


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## gldnboys

K9-Design said:


> It is a comfortable, energy-saving gait for many dogs. It is not a problem for them, and nothing to worry about.
> Now as far as training/showing, I won't allow it during heeling. I think it makes for a lazy heeler and is unattractive. We even trot in slow pace, it looks like dressage  Cute stuff


I agree. We train in Freestyle, and it's fun to experiment with different speeds. It really does look like dressage.


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## Sally's Mom

My Tiki, who is a Can Ch paces when leash walking. I think it is because she wants to go faster. Just spent a weekend showing her in Veterans Conformation...she has never paced in the showring...


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## Loisiana

I haven't paid attention to general leash walking - I only walk my dogs to get to and from the car or to potty when traveling. But I had to teach Phoenix to trot on heeling. He wanted to drop his head and drive forward to go faster.


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## hotel4dogs

I don't know if pacing can cause problems, but I would tend to doubt it, since it is considered a normal, although unusual, gait. 



FlyingQuizini said:


> He's built very much like Quiz in terms of height/length. He has more mass than Quiz did. Seems proportionate to my eye.
> 
> I'll continue with my plan of action of addressing via chiropractic - see if that help change anything.
> 
> It's just so strange to look at. Seriously - drives me nuts! Do we know if pacing can *create* problems? I would think there's a lot of compensatory stuff going on in a dog who is pacing...


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## Sally's Mom

Watched obedience on Friday at the Yankee Specialty...some paced with heeling, but it still looked fine...


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## FlyingQuizini

Megora said:


> I thought you had him in to the chiropractor already and ruled out any possible issues. Definitely - get him in!
> 
> I was a skeptic when it came to chiropractors, but the lady here worked wonders with Jacks' back. I was truly scared a while back when he couldn't do the doggy pushups (ie sitting up or begging pose, raising himself up to a stand from the sit up, back down to a sit - repeat). He couldn't sit up without falling over at his worst. Right now, he's back to being able to do all that.
> 
> Otherwise - just repeating, you would not believe how many dogs learn to pace because of how they've been handled. Meaning, that whoever worked with him before you could have taught him to pace and constantly reinforced that gait based on how they walked him and what they praised/rewarded for.


A chiro friend gave him a quick look-over before I agreed to adopt him. He's not had an adjustment. He came to me a but under socialized and has been weary of "strangers" hovering over him. Another friend tried to adjust him, but he was too uncomfortable with the social pressure. I *could've* pushed it and gotten him through it, but I'd rather build his confidence and go from there. That as a couple of months ago, so I'll try again in a couple of weeks when we can get an appointment. I'm a BIG supporter of chiro for animals. Zoie and Quiz went 4x a year for general maintenance, plus whenever something seemed "off."

And yes, the pacing might have come from initial leash-walking training.

I've always found that with attention heeling, the high head carriage really supports the trot, so hopefully it won't be an issue for obedience stuff. Although, I'm not sure how much obedience we'll ever end up doing. He has NO natural handler focus. In fact, from SAR training, he has 18 or so months of training that says, 'Not only is the reward out in the environment ... IT'S HIDING!!' It's very strange for me to work a 2-YO old who barely knows I'm at the other end of the leash when we're out somewhere. I'm working on it, but I'm not hell-bent on making him an obedience dog. (Honestly, I don't know if I want to work that hard ... *true confession.*) We might dabble in agility instead. He'll still need to develop handler focus, but it's different than what I'm looking for with obedience.


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## AmberSunrise

My Towhee paces while heeling. She was kept confined too much as a youngster, then returned to her breeder for being too much dog (not!! she truly is a good dog with a high desire to work & please) and then was in a kennel while not in the house or out for exercise. This, along with her compact build & active lifestyle may have contributed to her pacing but it is a comfortable gait for her so I honestly let it be once I tried different speeds on my part.

She has a heads up, perky heeling style - and she is happiest and most accurate while pacing at heel. I could probably easily train her to do that hackney gaiting but I personally hate that style.

If the pacing does not drive you absolutely crazy, why not consider just leaving it? It does not cost any points and if your dog is most comfortable at that gait, why add more complexity?


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## FlyingQuizini

Sunrise said:


> My Towhee paces while heeling. She was kept confined too much as a youngster, then returned to her breeder for being too much dog (not!! she truly is a good dog with a high desire to work & please) and then was in a kennel while not in the house or out for exercise. This, along with her compact build & active lifestyle may have contributed to her pacing but it is a comfortable gait for her so I honestly let it be once I tried different speeds on my part.
> 
> She has a heads up, perky heeling style - and she is happiest and most accurate while pacing at heel. I could probably easily train her to do that hackney gaiting but I personally hate that style.
> 
> If the pacing does not drive you absolutely crazy, why not consider just leaving it? It does not cost any points and if your dog is most comfortable at that gait, why add more complexity?


It drives me nuts! I haven't even started tacking a formal heel for competition, but it drives me nuts on daily walks! I'm trying to get used to it, and hopping a chiro adjustment might help.


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## FlyingQuizini

*Monorchidism - How common? Issues?*

Whoops. Didn't mean to post here ... new topic, posting in other board!


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