# We Have A Runner!



## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

He escapes and runs away or he runs away from heel? Yelling "heel" several times does not help, it leads to learned irrelevance. 

I suspect he might benefit from a little more exercise. My field dogs need work 4x a week.


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## RunawayGolden (Feb 8, 2018)

gdgli said:


> He escapes and runs away or he runs away from heel? Yelling "heel" several times does not help, it leads to learned irrelevance.
> 
> I suspect he might benefit from a little more exercise. My field dogs need work 4x a week.


Thanks for your input and I'm glad you asked. To be clear, he has never ran away from heel. When we are working/playing, he is on point. It's when he is let out to "air" that he gets like this. He obsessively marks our yard in usual spots (we have another senior male and 2 neighboring homes have males) and then he puts his nose to the ground and just dashes. As said, this isn't daily, that he bolts, although I do have to keep a strong eye on him daily. I shall try to increase our work/play levels and see where that goes. Is your field dog in tact?


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

You are allowing him to hunt without you. As you said, he was either working or contained in a kennel. You have given him freedom and he no longer has the boundaries of a handler. 
My guess... and this is simply speculation on my part is you have boundaries in your mind as to where he should remain but without someone there to tell him, how is he to know where those limits are?
If you aren't taking him out to work, don't let him run loose on his own. Build a dog run or exercise pen to keep him safe.


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## RunawayGolden (Feb 8, 2018)

Handled while let out to "air", no. Supervised, absolutely. Every single time. He has been shown the boundaries. As said, this never happened for the span of an entire year of having him. I'm trying to give as much info as I can think of. If there are any questions, please feel free to ask them! I might already be doing/not doing something in particular that I'm just not thinking of. I appreciate the help so far. Any advice is certainly welcomed!


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## Gleepers (Apr 20, 2016)

What was the trigger the first time he took off?
What ever it was now he knows that he CAN. And I’m sure when he is bounding around he is probably having a great time doing it. 

Probably going to need some sort of physical containment for awhile and are going to have to retrain the whole boundary thing.


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## kellyguy (Mar 5, 2014)

My first two males were intact field working dogs and I had similar issues. If we weren't actively engaged in either hunting or training they had a tremendous urge to bolt off in exploration. They would actually stop at about 50 yards and turn and look at me and ignore the recall. I discovered that if I held up a leash they would enthusiastically come bounding back so we could go for a walk. I wish I could tell you that I had found a magic training method that cured that behavior but that wasn't the case. I had to learn to prevent the escape in the first place by watching for signs that their attention was focused on some scent or attraction that would spur their "bolting", and keeping them on leash or training lead unless we were in the field. I know the behavior started because of a pack of strays chasing a bitch in heat was in the area. Once they experienced the "rush" of excitement from running off it's extremely difficult to rewire their behavior.
I hope someone has a method that works.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Gleepers said it much better than I did. It just sounds like his life was very structured and without that structure he has decided to let loose. I'm guessing it wasn't a sudden change but progressed slowly over time as his comfort level to his new lifestyle grew.
Pet puppies that spend the 1st year of their life with a family learn how to remain close to their families and their home. We unknowingly teach them to stay with us as they grow. Your guy had a different beginning. He was taught from an early age to go out into the world. It was of course under the control of his training but never had the ability to just be outside on his own. He may have learned how to be a house dog but let him out in the open spaces, he is going to do what he was bred to do. 
My guess is this working dog needs a job and he has created one without you. Thought about agility? or barn hunts? or tracking? Some activity you can do together. Regardless, I would build a dog run or keep him on a long line.


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## RunawayGolden (Feb 8, 2018)

All of this makes great sense, folks. Super helpful and his first couple years were definitely not my style. I'll have to adapt to his style, while trying to keep it in his mind that he has to live within our style too. Compromise, I suppose. I can adjust to that. Definitely considering a run, but more exercise and the lead will have to suffice for now. Thanks all. Very helpful!


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

RunawayGolden said:


> Thanks for your input and I'm glad you asked. To be clear, he has never ran away from heel. When we are working/playing, he is on point. It's when he is let out to "air" that he gets like this. He obsessively marks our yard in usual spots (we have another senior male and 2 neighboring homes have males) and then he puts his nose to the ground and just dashes. As said, this isn't daily, that he bolts, although I do have to keep a strong eye on him daily. I shall try to increase our work/play levels and see where that goes. Is your field dog in tact?


Do you think he might be tracking: rabbits, deer, fox, coyote, etc.?
Years back I read a book called (I think) CHOOSING THE RIGHT DOG. One of the advisories was that a Golden is a hunting dog and can get lost chasing prey. 

My recommendation to my puppy people: train a STRONG recall (purely positive doesn't quite do it for strong field dogs IMO) and PROOF it; do not leave your dog unmanaged in the yard; plan ahead for runaway situations.

Unfortunately advice often is ignored. Don't forget---there are Neanderthals who will shoot a dog especially if they think it is running deer, coyotes pose a problem, and there are bears in the woods.


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## RunawayGolden (Feb 8, 2018)

I will report back on my progress.


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## Leslie B (Mar 17, 2011)

So let me explain what is happening with hunt test training and the e collar. The dog stands next to the handler and a delightful bird falls from the sky and the dog gets to go and retrieve it. For the majority of dogs, this is the ultimate reward. He loves it more than a T-bone steak. The collar becomes the symbol that this great game is about to start and he loves it. Since nothing falls from the sky unless the dog is sitting right next the handler you can now see why your boy is insistent on standing right next to you once it is on. He is hoping by getting in position you will start his most favorite game in the world. My 9 year old girl does the same thing and I don't think she has had a collar correction in 3 years. She still dances and gets excited to have me put the collar on and then will not leave my side. It is her way of saying "LETS PLAY!!"


My suggestion is to go out and play a version of this game with your boy. This will involve a hand full of bumpers and the whistle. Dog has to stand by you while you throw the bumper. Release the dog (his name) and once he has the bumper blow the whistle (tweet, tweet tweet - not one long tweet) and require him to return to your side. Repeat for 4-8 times. Do this game a couple of times a week at first. You can decrease as he relearns the habit of returning to you but my guess is you will be playing this for some time. The game will remind him of the whistle command and let him know that you are willing to play the favorite game. When you are out with him and want to let him off lead, be sure to have a bumper with you every time. I have found that many dogs that are distracted and choose not to obey to the here command will often look back at me when I yell *Hey, Hey* *Hey* while swinging a bumper by the rope. The dog usually dashes back to you in hopes that the game will start. This way you are more fun that what is happening in the woods.


Last but not least, consider the e collar on the lowest setting. It is not about punishment or force but more of a tap on the shoulder to say, You need to obey. I shudder to think of the harm that could have come to your dog while he is on his walk about. Is the collar really worse than that?


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## RunawayGolden (Feb 8, 2018)

Leslie B said:


> So let me explain what is happening with hunt test training and the e collar. The dog stands next to the handler and a delightful bird falls from the sky and the dog gets to go and retrieve it. For the majority of dogs, this is the ultimate reward. He loves it more than a T-bone steak. The collar becomes the symbol that this great game is about to start and he loves it. Since nothing falls from the sky unless the dog is sitting right next the handler you can now see why your boy is insistent on standing right next to you once it is on. He is hoping by getting in position you will start his most favorite game in the world. My 9 year old girl does the same thing and I don't think she has had a collar correction in 3 years. She still dances and gets excited to have me put the collar on and then will not leave my side. It is her way of saying "LETS PLAY!!"
> 
> 
> My suggestion is to go out and play a version of this game with your boy. This will involve a hand full of bumpers and the whistle. Dog has to stand by you while you throw the bumper. Release the dog (his name) and once he has the bumper blow the whistle (tweet, tweet tweet - not one long tweet) and require him to return to your side. Repeat for 4-8 times. Do this game a couple of times a week at first. You can decrease as he relearns the habit of returning to you but my guess is you will be playing this for some time. The game will remind him of the whistle command and let him know that you are willing to play the favorite game. When you are out with him and want to let him off lead, be sure to have a bumper with you every time. I have found that many dogs that are distracted and choose not to obey to the here command will often look back at me when I yell *Hey, Hey* *Hey* while swinging a bumper by the rope. The dog usually dashes back to you in hopes that the game will start. This way you are more fun that what is happening in the woods.
> ...


When he has the collar on, again, he WILL NOT leave my side, unless bumpers are involved. I put the collar on, and I have the world's most obedient dog not doing what I want him to do all other times. It's been suggested that I try to normalize the collar, by putting it on him in the house. I really prefer not to use it, other than the "tap on the shoulder" you mention anyway. I have no qualms with using one (AT ALL). Other than bumper training, I don't use it at all, I don't compete field trial with him. I hunt upland/waterfowl with him. He needs nothing more than his, eyes, nose, four paws and a soft mouth for that.


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## RunawayGolden (Feb 8, 2018)

A little follow-up.

First off, thank you for all of your suggestions. This weekend was, what I'd consider, successful. I took on board most of what was said here and tried to find a way that applies to me and my boy. Friday afternoon, I tried him on his lead, walking the "border" of his boundaries. He was, as expected, obedient on the leash and not breaking from his attention with me. Although, he would go #1, he would not #2 on leash. We took a break from the leash and did a "working" bumper session, so I could get him focused. No issues, as usual. Then we did a "play" bumper session. No issues, as usual. I have to admit, I didn't use my whistle during this, as he was doing "what he was supposed to do". Mid-play, he had to do his business and came right back to me for more play. Saturday, same attention as Friday. Good obedient behavior. Sunday, I remembered (was reminded by my wife) to integrate the whistle for reinforcement on recall. We worked on this for awhile, and he was my "old" dog again. His attention would sway only now and then, but that's to be expected. 3 blasts on the whistle and he was at my heel. This was only in "play" mode. Fully attentive in "work". This morning, I let him out to "air" and I brought the bumper with me, which I made visible to him prior. He did his business, and came right to me after I (orally) whistled, as it was 6:30 and I didn't want to be blasting an actual whistle. No issues. I reinforced his good behavior with a bit of bumper play. The ice was thick in my yard, so to save injury, we kept fun time short. Overall, a productive weekend. 

That was the best idea I (we) could think of that would work for us. I hope it continues to yield the same results moving forward. I also hope that this is a sound method. Maybe someone could point out or give some input to what I'm doing and if it sounds appropriate.

I am constantly forgetting and having to remind myself that it's not really my dog that needs to be trained, but it's me that needs the training.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Yes you are on the right track. Dogs, by nature, (people too) repeat behaviors that are rewarding to them. Absolutely rewarding the dog with a 'life reward' - something the dog inherently loves, wants or needs to do -increases the likelihood that they will repeat the behavior we are seeking from them. If we can instill in them 'want to', teach them that responding to recall cue (for example) is sometimes -(frequently in the early stages) rewarded with something they love to do, be it fetch a bumper or a ball, go play with other dogs, or something else, we create reliability and just as importantly a dog who enjoys responding to cues.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I couldn't figure out from your explanation if the dog just takes off and doesn't respond to calling while you are standing there in the yard with him or if you let him out loose by himself and he eventually wanders off. If it's the latter, then totally your fault, what do you expect a dog to do? If it's the former, I'm not sure why you're so against using the ecollar as it's obvious the dog is collar conditioned and you own a collar. If he gets velcro-y with the collar on, keep the transmitter in your pocket, keep the collar on the dog, and otherwise ignore him.


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## RunawayGolden (Feb 8, 2018)

K9-Design said:


> I couldn't figure out from your explanation if the dog just takes off and doesn't respond to calling while you are standing there in the yard with him or if you let him out loose by himself and he eventually wanders off. If it's the latter, then totally your fault, what do you expect a dog to do? If it's the former, I'm not sure why you're so against using the ecollar as it's obvious the dog is collar conditioned and you own a collar. If he gets velcro-y with the collar on, keep the transmitter in your pocket, keep the collar on the dog, and otherwise ignore him.


It's the former. Thanks. I've stated that I have no issues with using a collar at any other time than what I've stated. He won't leave my side, when it's on, and will not go #2. It has nothing to do with the transmitter. Not once did I state that "I'm so against using the ecollar." I never stated that I don't use it at other times either.


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