# First Field Session



## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

This weekend my boyfriend and I will be taking our boys to our local GRC's field session training. They split up the day with advanced members in the morning and beginner/puppies in the afternoon. At first I was just going to go and strictly observe since I'm a complete newb and don't know anything about anything yet . But the member in charge of it all convinced me to bring the boys for the beginner training. He said that the members can help us evaluate them and where they're at in their training. We've been attending field training class so we've worked on hand signals, whistle commands, and are in the process of teaching force fetch. I'm beyond nervous for this weekend though. I don't know what to expect, but I feel like we're going to be in way over our heads! The boys haven't even been introduced to bumpers yet :doh:. Any advice or words of encouragement would be greatly appreciated. I'm completely out of my comfort zone, I have butterflies in my stomach just thinking about this weekend - I just want to do the best I can for my boys.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Gosh have a great time. Relax. Your boys will feel your butterflies. It will be fun! Remember everyone there had to start somewhere too. So if you haven't done bumpers yet, have your boys only retrieved birds? My husband was introduced to bumpers this winter. He had only used fresh kill birds, so bumpers were a new thing for him. Bumpers are much easier to control for training. Birds are way more unpredictable.


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## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

Alaska7133 said:


> Gosh have a great time. Relax. Your boys will feel your butterflies. It will be fun! Remember everyone there had to start somewhere too. So if you haven't done bumpers yet, have your boys only retrieved birds? My husband was introduced to bumpers this winter. He had only used fresh kill birds, so bumpers were a new thing for him. Bumpers are much easier to control for training. Birds are way more unpredictable.


We haven't actually done any retrieves yet. I think maybe that's why I'm so nervous. In the training class I'm in right now we're waiting until the dogs get through the "out" and "hold" part of force fetch before introducing them to bumpers and birds. Just in play outside they both "wait" on command and will willingly retrieve their balls once we release them. But that's the closest we've gotten to throwing an actual mark. I figure I might as well dive into this head first!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

How do you teach the hold and out? Do you use a paint roller instead?


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## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

Our trainer has us do it in stages. We started with a dowel or something similar. (We used a light dumbell). Then we moved up to a half filled water bottle. Then we will do a hammer. (both so they can learn balance). And then on to a bumper and birds (frozen first).

ETA: Our trainer does also recommend paint rollers.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Every trainer is a bit different on how they order things. I've done bumpers and birds and very little forced fetch. The group I'm with does not use balls at all. They suggest staying away from them entirely since they can be more fun than bumpers because of the way a ball moves. Have you viewed any of Connie Cleveland or Pat Nolan videos? They have great ideas. Go to www.youtube.com and type in either name and lots of videos come up. It might help youknow what to expect.

I'm a total novice too. I started field last October with my puppy Lucy. Then I added my boy Reilly. My Hunter thinks field training is where you get to meet new people, he has no interest in birds. So don't be surprised if your dogs have different reactions to field work. (I thought it was funny that the dog I named Hunter can't hunt.)

The one thing I've had drilled into my head over the winter is: obedience is the foundation of field work. So keep up with your obedience classes along with the field work. Ask lots of questions and be prepared to help carry stuff, throw bumpers, and generally help out. We're all in this to have fun with our dogs and let them do what they were bred to do.


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## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

Alaska7133 said:


> Every trainer is a bit different on how they order things. I've done bumpers and birds and very little forced fetch. The group I'm with does not use balls at all. They suggest staying away from them entirely since they can be more fun than bumpers because of the way a ball moves. Have you viewed any of Connie Cleveland or Pat Nolan videos? They have great ideas. Go to www.youtube.com and type in either name and lots of videos come up. It might help youknow what to expect.
> 
> I'm a total novice too. I started field last October with my puppy Lucy. Then I added my boy Reilly. My Hunter thinks field training is where you get to meet new people, he has no interest in birds. So don't be surprised if your dogs have different reactions to field work. (I thought it was funny that the dog I named Hunter can't hunt.)
> 
> The one thing I've had drilled into my head over the winter is: obedience is the foundation of field work. So keep up with your obedience classes along with the field work. Ask lots of questions and be prepared to help carry stuff, throw bumpers, and generally help out. We're all in this to have fun with our dogs and let them do what they were bred to do.


Thank you for the video recommendations, I'll definitely be watching as many as I can before this weekend. I am hoping they both take to field work, I have this hunch that my older boy will with how he stares longingly at the more advanced dogs in our field class . My younger boy, well I'm just hoping he doesn't eat the birds (does that happen?). 

I'm really hoping our obedience work is at a level where we'll be able to have productive field training. I'm not sure how much will go out the window on Sunday with all the new distractions.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

The goal of any dog is to eat the bird. It's against their nature to get them to pick up a bird and give it to you. Let's face they are predators. So having them go against their instinct is what we are training for. So you will probably have your puppies on long lines so that you can get ahold of them when they get the bird. My puppy is still convinced she'll find a way to keep the bird (she's a work in progress). My boy Reilly is pretty good at not trying to head off with the bird.

Is the trainer you are with now that is teaching you the same as the one out in the field? Or will it be someone completely different? If it is a different person, do these trainers speak to each other and plan their training together? The reason I ask is you might have something completely different when you go out in the field. For my situation my obedience trainer and my field group work together to plan future training. My obedience trainer has hunt and field titles with her goldens so she knows what we are trying to achieve. It's nice if everyon is on the same page. So if you situation is not like that, you might want to ask the field group who they suggest that does obedience training with field work in mind. I think it's helped get my puppy going quickly.

Be prepared for e-collar training. Most people in field work use them. We just started. We first had our dogs wear them for a couple of weeks without them being on. Now we are gradually introducing nicks. Every dog is different on how they adapt to the e-collar.

It's really nice that you are with a group of goldens. Goldens are so nice to work with. We have a puppy golden group also.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

And to quite Ken Bora on RTF--get a rope. 

A long line is your best friend with a young dog in the field. You can reel them in and enforce your standards.


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## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

Alaska7133 said:


> The goal of any dog is to eat the bird. It's against their nature to get them to pick up a bird and give it to you. Let's face they are predators. So having them go against their instinct is what we are training for. So you will probably have your puppies on long lines so that you can get ahold of them when they get the bird. My puppy is still convinced she'll find a way to keep the bird (she's a work in progress). My boy Reilly is pretty good at not trying to head off with the bird.
> 
> Is the trainer you are with now that is teaching you the same as the one out in the field? Or will it be someone completely different? If it is a different person, do these trainers speak to each other and plan their training together? The reason I ask is you might have something completely different when you go out in the field. For my situation my obedience trainer and my field group work together to plan future training. My obedience trainer has hunt and field titles with her goldens so she knows what we are trying to achieve. It's nice if everyon is on the same page. So if you situation is not like that, you might want to ask the field group who they suggest that does obedience training with field work in mind. I think it's helped get my puppy going quickly.
> 
> ...


My Foundation for Field Dogs trainer isn't the same person who's running the field session on Sunday. I'm not sure if my trainer will be there or not. I know he does trainings on Sunday's too, but I'm not sure if its with this group or not. My field trainer also will be teaching the next obedience class my boys are signed up. Hopefully the training will overlap somewhat. From what I've gathered the field session group is pretty large with people who train a variety of different ways. I'm definitely going to be asking a ton of questions. I have field class tonight so I'll bring up some of my concerns with my trainer tonight. 

I'm very excited to meet all the members and their goldens. I'm still amazed when I see goldens in action doing what they're bred to do . 




sterregold said:


> And to quite Ken Bora on RTF--get a rope.
> 
> A long line is your best friend with a young dog in the field. You can reel them in and enforce your standards.


Right now I have a 50ft lead (which probably won't last very long in the field since it was pretty cheap). What length do you recommend?


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

50 feet is pretty good. You do not want it so long that it gets tangled up in every bush the pup runs past. When you go to replace it, get one made of marine grade rope. There is a vendor who does some of the NY and east coast shows who sells them as racking lines. The marine grade rope is super sturdy (mine is 10 years old) and it floats which is important when you start doing water work as a line that sinks can tangle in the dogs legs while swimming.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Check Cords & Dog Tie-outs.

Lots of great supplies at gundogsupply.com they are pretty fast in shipping as well.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Find a whistle you like and you'll need a lanyard for it too. A 20' long line works well. Our group does not use duck scent on bumpers, we use oil of anise (licorice), I think it smells better and the scent lasts a long time. 

We also all built our own platforms for training for "place". Have you covered "place" yet? We're still winter here, so we keep the dogs out of the snow that way. You can buy platforms too I think from hunting stores. Our platforms we build are 2' x 2' x 6" high with carpet on top. I have one that is 2.5' x 3.5' so I can have both my dogs on it. We also use pinch collars with our long lines.

One thing to do when you get to your training place this weekend, is to leave your dogs in the car. Walk over to where they are working and find out when its appropriate to bring your dogs out one at a time. Often people only work one dog in the field at a time. I'm not sure how your group organizes. Maybe it's a long walk from the car to the field and everyone brings all their dogs at the same time all at once.

Also one thing some people in my group found out the hard way, put your dogs in crates while they are in the car. Don't use a soft sided crate. They will destroy your car and a soft sided crate in no time. Once your dogs figure out what the game is, they get super excited and will go crazy waiting. One woman in my group had all her seat belts eaten and another lost her expensive soft sided crate. Don't leash or collar your dogs while they are in their crates. My girl Lucy can eat a 6' leather leash in less than 5 minutes. Field work is what they love so be prepared for your puppies to get very unruly while they are waiting. I have a friend that has a dog that will howl and whine while he waits. He's 9 yrs old, so it's not getting better. 

Also when you are behind the line (where everyone stands behind an imaginary line) while another dog is fetching, make sure to not let your dog cross the line or lunge at the retrieving dog. I've had other pups try to take my dog's bird. It was very annoying and my pup got really mad at the other pup (which was her brother). Also ask where the blinds are and the order that the dogs will come in and out of the blinds. I know that you won't know a lot about blinds, so just ask when you get there about the blinds.

Also you can get the WC/WCX DVD from the GRCA.org website. For members it's free for non-members its $2 I think. This is the working certificate title. The DVD walks you through the set up for the event, the rules and how the event works. It's very informative.

Have a great time, remember to bring a camera. I take lots of photos and post them online for our group to download. Post some on here, its fun to see what everyone is up to. Plus I really like to see warmer places!


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## drofen (Feb 2, 2013)

Egads. I have butterflies for you! Good luck! Hat's off to you. Hope I have the courage when it's time.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Not sure I agree with this. In my very limited experience, some will gladly pick up a bird and give it to you without any attempt to eat it from day one. Some are just about "born to retrieve", and that includes prey, birds, etc.
Others consider the bird "meat" and do want to eat it. But I don't think you can make a categorical statement that any dog will eat the bird, or that retrieving a bird is against their nature.



Alaska7133 said:


> The goal of any dog is to eat the bird. It's against their nature to get them to pick up a bird and give it to you. Let's face they are predators. So having them go against their instinct is what we are training for.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I'm so sorry I didn't mean to make this sound difficult! It's all fun, but it's just nice to know what to expect ahead of time. It's amazing to watch your sweet little puppy that seems to be all sunshine and light, then turn into a serious hunting dog. When you turn that switch it's good to know what you are getting into. I never thought in my wildest dreams that my sweet little girl would eat my car. I remember when my trainer told me that would happen. I thought no way, little Lucy is my love bug. But she was right. Lucy is all about the birds. All the birds are hers! She wants to run off and eat them. Everyone else in my group has had about the same experience.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Hotel4dogs,
You have way more experience than I do. So Tito never tried to eat a bird? Maybe it's a puppy thing since I'm in a puppy group. My older boy Reilly doesn't try to eat them, but all the pups do. Lucy is a pistol sometimes about snatching and running away, you have to grab her long line sometimes especially if we haven't been out chasing birds for awhile. I've heard that chessies are especially bad about eating birds. But I think I'll always have to watch little Lucy with her birds. Maybe because I allowed her to devour her first bird. I may have set the trend back then. What do you think?


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## KeaColorado (Jan 2, 2013)

Alaska7133 said:


> Gosh have a great time. Relax. Your boys will feel your butterflies. It will be fun! Remember everyone there had to start somewhere too. So if you haven't done bumpers yet, have your boys only retrieved birds? My husband was introduced to bumpers this winter. He had only used fresh kill birds, so bumpers were a new thing for him. Bumpers are much easier to control for training. Birds are way more unpredictable.


What I want to know is...how did you teach your husband to retrieve a bumper?  Now THAT's what I call training! 

In all seriousness though, a very informative thread for those of us (like me) who are preparing to dabble in field training. Thanks to all who contributed.


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## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

Alaska7133 said:


> Find a whistle you like and you'll need a lanyard for it too. A 20' long line works well. Our group does not use duck scent on bumpers, we use oil of anise (licorice), I think it smells better and the scent lasts a long time.
> 
> We also all built our own platforms for training for "place". Have you covered "place" yet? We're still winter here, so we keep the dogs out of the snow that way. You can buy platforms too I think from hunting stores. Our platforms we build are 2' x 2' x 6" high with carpet on top. I have one that is 2.5' x 3.5' so I can have both my dogs on it. We also use pinch collars with our long lines.
> 
> ...


We haven't covered place yet. I feel like we're still very "elementary" right now. I have this feeling my dogs will end up not leaving the car on Sunday. Or at least if they do leave the car it will only be to expose them to the field environment. Not sure if we'll actually get to participate in the training. I'm not sure what to expect for the beginner/puppy part of the session which would be what my boys would participate in. I think this will be more of a learning experience for me and my boyfriend than for the boys at this point.



> Also one thing some people in my group found out the hard way, put your dogs in crates while they are in the car. Don't use a soft sided crate. They will destroy your car and a soft sided crate in no time. Once your dogs figure out what the game is, they get super excited and will go crazy waiting. One woman in my group had all her seat belts eaten and another lost her expensive soft sided crate. Don't leash or collar your dogs while they are in their crates. My girl Lucy can eat a 6' leather leash in less than 5 minutes. Field work is what they love so be prepared for your puppies to get very unruly while they are waiting. I have a friend that has a dog that will howl and whine while he waits. He's 9 yrs old, so it's not getting better.





> Also you can get the WC/WCX DVD from the GRCA.org website. For members it's free for non-members its $2 I think. This is the working certificate title. The DVD walks you through the set up for the event, the rules and how the event works. It's very informative.


Thank you for the advice/recommendation! 



> Also when you are behind the line (where everyone stands behind an imaginary line) while another dog is fetching, make sure to not let your dog cross the line or lunge at the retrieving dog. I've had other pups try to take my dog's bird. It was very annoying and my pup got really mad at the other pup (which was her brother). Also ask where the blinds are and the order that the dogs will come in and out of the blinds. I know that you won't know a lot about blinds, so just ask when you get there about the blinds.


Oh boy, I have a lot to learn . I feel like there's a whole new language I have to learn! 




> Have a great time, remember to bring a camera. I take lots of photos and post them online for our group to download. Post some on here, its fun to see what everyone is up to. Plus I really like to see warmer places!


Now this I definitely will do! I will also be putting my boys through extra intense training this week in hopes we will get to do some sort of training on Sunday . 


Thanks everyone for your words of encouragement and advice! I definitely need it. I feel so out of my element, but at least the pups will be in theirs .


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Your puppies will probably get to at least chase a bumper if not a dead bird. Everyone likes to see the puppies starting, they have such a great deal of enthusiasm. I'm sure everyone will be most welcoming of new people in your group. Yes it is a new language, but everyone had to start somewhere. It's very nice that your golden club has enough people that they can form a group willing to train together. Our golden club does also, our field chair organizes our training group and keeps us headed in the right direction. So we don't have an official trainer. The way our group works is, I ask the field chair on Wednesday where she wants to train on Saturday. I send out an email to everyone that's ever been to one of our sessions with information about when where and what to bring. We all show up at the designated place on Saturday morning at 10 am and away we go. Sometimes we have a lab show up, but generally it's all goldens, with several being from the same litter. We gather in the parking area of a local frozen marsh. We put all the gear in sleds. We leave the pups in the cars and pull the sleds to the area we will be working. Then we set up our one blind. Ours looks kind of like this: Gunners Up 3-Panel Holding Blind -- Digital Camo. $139.99. FREE Shipping US48
We setup the blind with pieces of carpet inside on the ground. We rotate the pups through this for a few minutes at a time. They need to sit facing out and not looking around to see where the bumpers fly through the air. The dogs don't like sitting in There they want to see what's going on. so I use the "place" command to let them know to sit and settle down while they wait for their turn.
We also set up a couple of platforms for the dogs to rest on.
Then we draw a line in the snow for where we want everyone behind. 
We have 1 "gunner" in the beginning to do singles. This is a person that stands off in the brush with a pile of bumpers and throws them for the dogs. You or your husband should volunteer for this gunner position. Watching the dogs faces as they launch from the line is what it's all about. This is the moment of why we are all here. The immense joy on those dogs faces is very pure.

I could go from here, but I'm sure you will only do singles.

I never competed and I have no titles. I have only been training since October. So I've only trained in the snow. I've been training my 9 month pup since she was 14 weeks and my older boy that I just started is 5. My goal is to hunt with my husband this fall. It would be fun to get a JH (junior hunt) or WC (working certificate) title. My ultimate goal is to have fun with my husband and my dogs out in the fields of Alaska.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Here is an excerpt from the field column I write for the GRCC newsletter. This column was about getting started in field work (some of the statements are from a CKC perspective, so you would have to substitute AKC and GRCA rules). If you are on Facebook, we also have a working group for Golden Retrievers there https://www.facebook.com/groups/473111789397812/

"So where should you start?
• Familiarize yourself with the regulations—you need to know what to expect, and to be fair to your dog, you need to know what would DQ you! The WC and Hunt Test rule books are both available online in the members section of the CKC website, or for purchase through the CKC. I would recommend getting your own copy as then you have it handy to refer to if a question arises.
• Observe. Go to a test just to watch what goes on. This will give you a much better sense of what to expect and help keep your nerves in check when you enter your first test.
• Identify your human resources. Are there experienced people in your Golden club or is there a hunt test/field trial club in your area? Make these inquiries as that in-person guidance is invaluable. If there is a professional trainer in your area they may offer day training. Many clubs hold picnic trials through the winter months and this can be an excellent place to meet people, get some experience for your dog, and possibly get into a training group. Pitch in to throw marks, ask questions, and people will be more likely to offer some help and advice. Find out who has trained dogs to advanced titles. Watch people run their dogs; the folks whose dogs are responsive and eager in their work are the ones whose advice you will want to seek out.
• Get some basic equipment. Since dogs run “naked” in CKC tests, you will need a slip lead to bring your dog to line and restrain it while the marks are thrown. You will need a whistle and a lanyard to hang it from. I’d recommend getting one of the Mega-style whistles with the trumpet housing, as it projects the sound out into the field better—your judges will thank you for not using a Fox40! If you are going to try hunt tests, you will also need a duck call. Get some bumpers: ½ black ½ white with flags are a great budget saver as they stay relatively visible in a variety of conditions. Get a couple of birds—ducks preferably since that is what is most often used in tests. Sometimes clubs will sell slightly used birds after a test, or they may be able to tell you who they buy their birds from. Test day should not be the first time your dog sees a dead duck! The same goes for decoys—most department/hardware stores have inexpensive decoys for sale in their sporting goods area. Many a young dog has been distracted by a decoy on their way to a mark simply because they’d never seen one before.
• Extend your learning. If your initial forays pique your interest, get some training guides. There are many available, some better than others. Most professional trainers follow a program based on the methods of Rex Carr. Mike Lardy’s _Total Retriever Training_ series (now available in a new edition) and his collection of articles first published in _The Retriever Journal_ areprobably the best known, but can be rather intimidating to the beginner. Evan Graham’s _Smartworks_ series of books and DVDs is also Carr-based, and with the troubleshooting tips it includes is more novice-friendly. As a bonus, Evan is a frequent contributor on a number of internet forums including Canadian Hunting Dogs, Retriever Training Forum, and Golden Retriever Forum. A great video if you are starting a puppy is Jackie Mertens video _Sound Beginnings_. Many people are also having success with their pups starting out following the Bill Hillman videos. Other often recommended books include the Dahl’s _10 Minute Retriever_, and James Spencer’s _Training for Retriever Hunt Tests_. Carol Cassity also has an excellent drills book which can help dogs advance into more advanced skills: _Building a Retriever—Drills and More_. One of my now favourites is Cherylon Loveland and Clarisse Rutherford’s _Training a Retriever Puppy for Hunting_, which is a step-by-step basics program, which includes look-fors at each stage, and works for an older, novice dog, as well as a puppy."


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

No, he has never shown any interest in eating any bird, be it pigeon, chukkar, duck, whatever.
I've had 2 of his puppies, under 4 months old, retrieving birds and neither showed any inclination to chew on or eat the birds. 
So while I certainly would agree that some dogs (probably many) will try to eat the bird, I just didn't think you could state that "any" dog would try to eat a bird.
Just nitpicking 



Alaska7133 said:


> Hotel4dogs,
> You have way more experience than I do. So Tito never tried to eat a bird? Maybe it's a puppy thing since I'm in a puppy group. My older boy Reilly doesn't try to eat them, but all the pups do. Lucy is a pistol sometimes about snatching and running away, you have to grab her long line sometimes especially if we haven't been out chasing birds for awhile. I've heard that chessies are especially bad about eating birds. But I think I'll always have to watch little Lucy with her birds. Maybe because I allowed her to devour her first bird. I may have set the trend back then. What do you think?


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I don't know. There was one time Rose did not bring the dove right back. I am not sure if she was going to eat it - she held it pretty soft and I just assumed she was trying to play keep away. She was corrected immediately and she brought it back. She was about 5 months at the time. We threw the same dove again and she brought it back but that was the last time we had fresh shot birds. I guess we will see this summer how it goes. :0)
She is enjoying the spring birds now and I put her in a sit/whoa and she would just sit there quietly and watch every single one of them. LOL nothing will phase her while birds are around. During the snow storm the dumb bunny thought she can just jump on top of the snow and get to them. It was a picture perfect moment when she realized that she will just sink in the big snow while the birds could sit on top of it.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Conner tried to eat the first dead duck he ever had. I told him no and he never tried it again.

I think Flip came hard wired to destroy birds. I gave him a wing as a puppy and he swallowed it in one gulp. I much later tried introducing birds and he immediately went to ripping it apart. It took quite a bit of work to get him to understand to hold the bird nicely. He now has no issues at all with holding a bird, but I'm fairly certain that if I just left him in the backyard with a duck in the yard, he would eat it.

Last weekend was Flip's first time to ever have a freshly killed bird. They shot a pheasant at the WC and then let the dogs pick it up behind the cars if they needed to. I don't know if it was the fact that it was just killed, or the fact that it was a pheasant, but I could tell from the way he went to sniffing it that he had no intention of bringing it to me. We had to have quick chat about retrieving not being optional. no problems after that.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I do agree that the dog's ultimate goal is to eat the bird.
ANY activity that dogs are specifically bred for - herding, retrieving, trailing, lure coursing, flushing, setting, guarding, fighting, earth dogs, etc - all of those activities are modified, specialized versions of the seek-chase-bite-kill-eat sequence that is absolutely hardwired into the canine species. We just modified it to suit our needs. Retrievers have heightened seek and chase, and reduced bite, kill and eat. But it's still there.
Fisher, who has retrieved thousands of birds and not so much as been sticky on a bird, ever, has a dirty little secret. A few months ago I was drying birds on a rack, Fisher was loose in the yard, he helped himself and ATE ONE. I was shocked and VERY amused. He was really pleased with himself. He hasn't at all tried to munch on a bird during training since then. 
Bally on the other hand is a monster and to him birds mean seek and destroy. He was pretty good picking up his live pigeons but ducks he just either tries to crunch their heads or yank feathers out all over the place. He's a mess. He's 12 weeks old so I won't worry about it until he's old enough to understand.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

wouldn't allowing to chew and play with the birds develop a behavior much harder to break when older?


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

In the picture in my avatar is Lucy with her sister Daisy. We took the photo of them sitting on a platform with someone behind the picture taker waving a pigeon. These little girls are about 14 weeks. Lucy had already had birds, and she was better about not eating them. But little Daisy was terrible. At each throw she would try to inhale the pigeon and run away with it. She was on a long line, but she would have her jaws wedged tight around that pigeon and the bird was half way down her throat. Every throw was difficult to pry her jaws open to get the bird out. And then she would snap at the bird trying to get at it again. She was very possessive. I have never seen dogs or puppies act that way like these girls did around their first birds. So that's when I found ou that even little show puppies could have that birdy instinct just like field dogs. Now these girls bring their birds back, but every now and then, one will get the idea that hey, this tastes pretty good, and we have to convince them otherwise. Instincts are amazing to watch.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I had commented in another thread that Jackie Mertens had told me (when we were discussing a specific puppy who was very possessive of birds, very young pup) that she doesn't introduce young puppies to birds because you can't tell if that's bird drive or meat drive. They may be showing food possession, of a very high value food, not bird drive.
Which would mean that yes, a lot of puppies must want to eat the birds.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

I still want to see that a puppy I am going to keep will gravitate to a bird over other options--food, toy, etc. I have noticed that even with easily consumable food in the pen, some puppies still want to stuff the feathers in their face! If they get too aggressive with it then I do not continue to let them have birds until we have established through training what is appropriate. But I do want to do the introduction and have that information. Some puppies are great about it from the get-go. Wings thought about it once with a fresh-shot pigeon, I went out and got her and the bird, and she has not done it since.


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

Hee Hee Fisher! Was it finger lickin good? Too funny.

It's normal to be nervous. You should get them out and let them do a retrieve to see where they are. If you're nervous about their obedience, use a leash and long line. Lots of people will have a long line and I have several (koff koff, Gladys) if you need to borrow one.

Don't be embarrassed. Things I've seen dogs do at those training sessions:
pee on the bird or bumper
poop on the bird or bumper
roll on the bird or bumper
run around like a nut
carry the bird to the car and refuse to come when called

One time I trained with a lady whose dog was an OTCh!! I was afraid we would look like cretins next to them but her dog would not come when called in the field! She had to get in her car and go get him ... twice! She decided it wasn't going to work and left. LOL

So don't be afraid, they're dogs, they'll act like dogs, you're all learning.

When you're new everyone tries to help you by telling you what to do. You'll have to sort out what you want to do, what you want to try, what works, what doesn't. Usually dogs like consistency so I would find what works and stick with it.

The people running the training are extremely knowledgeable. They'll help you.
See you tomorrow, it'll be fun. 
You'll see little 4 month old Dee Dee running on her long line

Addendum: Dee Dee will be using bumpers, no birds. 
I've given her a wing to see if she would be interested, and she went postal with it.
So I don't have to worry about interest. She won't get any more wings, feathers, or birds until she's done with the fetch process and can have good bird manners.
She doesn't need to get whipped up, she needs to calm down.

Some dogs have low interest and need a bunch of quacking, flapping, and birds in their faces.

You won't know what you have till you try it.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

boomers_dawn said:


> Addendum: Dee Dee will be using bumpers, no birds.
> I've given her a wing to see if she would be interested, and she went postal with it.
> So I don't have to worry about interest. She won't get any more wings, feathers, or birds until she's done with the fetch process and can have good bird manners.
> She doesn't need to get whipped up, she needs to calm down.


Must be the breeding :


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Sorry, just seeing this  Thought I would chime in with:

Relax, we've all been there and there is nothing your dog can do to embarrass you .. but do bring a long line 

I went to the club field sessions for several years working with the same teacher. They field group know teacher and his methods and are fine with them  Some in the golden group use collars, some do not - it really is a good group with well planned sessions and you should have a great time - just prepare for poison ivy blocking as the season progresses.


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## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

*success!!!!*

Thanks everyone for your replies, advice, and encouragement! Sunday's field session was a BLAST! I'm definitely hooked now - and so is my boyfriend...he was kind of just along for the ride before, but not anymore . Everyone there was so nice and helpful and we got a lot of great advice. It was a great experience actually getting to see the dogs practicing. I got a much better feel for how things work and learned how to use different equipment. We showed up early to see the more advanced dogs practice for a little while, then joined the beginner session which was a ton of fun. It was really nice getting to see dogs of all levels (and ages) practicing. 

Both Oliver and Bernie got to have a go. I couldn't be more pleased with Bernie, I've been bragging about him to everyone . My boyfriend and I were nervous just to take him out of the car because he gets really anxious and excited in new environments. He was barking non stop in the truck  - next time I'm bringing a blanket to cover his crate with. And when we took him out he was pulling and lunging everywhere - recipe for disaster for sure. But NOPE, he was a CHAMP! Took off like a rocket for the bumpers (needed a second one thrown and quite a few "hey heys" to get his attention), but when he found them he picked them right up and came back (after a few reminders with a tug on the long line). This is probably typical and I'm probably super proud over something really small, but I just can't help being a proud mama, especially after how much we've struggled with Bern Bern. I could just tell this is the start of something great for him . 

Oliver on the other hand...I might not have much of a hunting dog with him. He was a little dazed and confused out there. He ran to the bumpers but he wouldn't pick them up and then he'd run back to me. So I suppose we're just missing the middle piece? I'm just not sure he was that into it. He's kind of a couch potato. I got a lot of great tips from the experienced members for how to help make retrieving for fun for him. Is this common, do you have to sometimes teach a Golden that retrieving is fun? He'll retrieve one ball, but thats it. Nothing else, no other balls, no toys . Maybe if it was a bird he'd be a little more excited?

We got two birds to take home for the boys to introduce them. They both seemed pretty interested at the field session. I was actually able to keep Bernie's attention on me and have him willingly do commands when I had a couple feathers in my hand (good sign!). Oliver loved the bird, but I think he wanted to eat it..or tear it apart. Is that a good or bad sign - and what should I do? I don't want him to learn bad bird manners. Should I wait to introduce the bird again until after we've completed force fetch? We have plenty to work on in the mean time. I can't wait for the next field session! 


Oh and I forgot my camera :doh::doh::doh:. Will have to bring it next time!


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

YAY!! So glad to hear this. I admired the way you both stepped outside your comfort zone and tried everything! arty:


I wouldn't let them them eat, lick, chew, mangle, or play with the birds. It's good to use them to see if the dogs are interested in birds, other than that, I would just do whatever they told you, and your homework in class.

If it doesn't gross you out too much, you can wrap them in newspapers, then wrap them in plastic shopping bags and store them in the freezer to use when you get to that point in training (do it before they get too yukky).

Hope to see you guys back out there in the field soon!


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## drofen (Feb 2, 2013)

coaraujo said:


> Thanks everyone for your replies, advice, and encouragement! Sunday's field session was a BLAST! I'm definitely hooked now - and so is my boyfriend...he was kind of just along for the ride before, but not anymore . Everyone there was so nice and helpful and we got a lot of great advice. It was a great experience actually getting to see the dogs practicing. I got a much better feel for how things work and learned how to use different equipment. We showed up early to see the more advanced dogs practice for a little while, then joined the beginner session which was a ton of fun. It was really nice getting to see dogs of all levels (and ages) practicing.
> 
> Both Oliver and Bernie got to have a go. I couldn't be more pleased with Bernie, I've been bragging about him to everyone . My boyfriend and I were nervous just to take him out of the car because he gets really anxious and excited in new environments. He was barking non stop in the truck  - next time I'm bringing a blanket to cover his crate with. And when we took him out he was pulling and lunging everywhere - recipe for disaster for sure. But NOPE, he was a CHAMP! Took off like a rocket for the bumpers (needed a second one thrown and quite a few "hey heys" to get his attention), but when he found them he picked them right up and came back (after a few reminders with a tug on the long line). This is probably typical and I'm probably super proud over something really small, but I just can't help being a proud mama, especially after how much we've struggled with Bern Bern. I could just tell this is the start of something great for him .
> 
> ...


All day I've been meaning to post in this thread asking how it went. Glad to hear you had such a good time!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Good for you getting out there! Your boy that seemed a little less interested in bumpers just needs a little work in that direction. He can easily come around. My little girl Lucy has just decided she's not interested lately either. She just wants birds, maybe that's your boy's idea too. Make sure to bring that camera next time, we like to see photos!


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

coaraujo said:


> Oliver loved the bird, but I think he wanted to eat it..or tear it apart. Is that a good or bad sign - and what should I do? I don't want him to learn bad bird manners. Should I wait to introduce the bird again until after we've completed force fetch?


Yes. How old is he? If he's 6 months or older it's time for formal Basics anyway. Formalize obedience, force fetch, basic handling, swim-by; show time!


coaraujo said:


> *Oh and I forgot my camera* :doh::doh::doh:. Will have to bring it next time!


Go to your room!

EvanG


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I never have a camera, I never think about it - I am like that even with my daughter's events, I get there and all the moms around me are taking pics, videos etc, and I end up just buying the DVD with the event and the professional pictures. I once thought about it during a swim event and oops, batteries went dead right before the finish.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

Claudia M said:


> I never have a camera, I never think about it - I am like that even with my daughter's events, I get there and all the moms around me are taking pics, videos etc, and I end up just buying the DVD with the event and the professional pictures. I once thought about it during a swim event and oops, batteries went dead right before the finish.


*NOTE TO SELF:* Start!!!

One of the best inventions for aspiring trainers is the video camera. Mount one on an inexpensive tripod behind yourself, and learn from what you are _really_ doing. It's sobering!

EvanG


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## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

Alaska7133 said:


> Good for you getting out there! Your boy that seemed a little less interested in bumpers just needs a little work in that direction. He can easily come around. My little girl Lucy has just decided she's not interested lately either. She just wants birds, maybe that's your boy's idea too. Make sure to bring that camera next time, we like to see photos!



We just had field class last night and talked with our trainer about how the Sunday field session went. He reassured me that Oliver will still make a fine hunting dog (and enjoy it). He said that usually you have issues if the dog doesn't go out to the bumper. The picking up can easily be trained - as that is just an obedience aspect. The whole running out shows that there is desire. He also waved a paint roller around and got Oliver to run out and retrieve it as if it was made out of treats.  I was pretty embarrassed considering I couldn't get him to retrieve anything but his ball and in about 30 seconds Frank got him to the point where I think he'd prefer the paint roller over the ball :doh:. Lets just say Mom has some work to do. I get so nervous that I'm going to hold my boys back because of my inexperience. The only reason they have any faults is because of the mistakes I make in their training. Its so frustrating! But at least we all get to learn and grow together..even if the journey is a bit goofy 

Goals for May 11th Field Session:
1. Have Oliver run out and actually PICK UP the bumper and bring it back
2. Have Bernie come back after getting the bumper.
3. Have Bernie walk..on four legs.. to the line.


ETA: Both boys won't be introduced to birds again until after we finish our trained retrieve and proof some obedience commands. Birdies are in the freezer for the time being


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