# Unreal... GRM



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I just discovered what "GoldRocksMom", Kimberly Schulz, did when she "visited" our Forum on 11/12/07. She went in and edited out most of her posts - the ones about Kali Kliza, the nasty ones she wrote in her thread "You wouldn't know the truth if it...", the ones about "Miss New Jersey", and "Brady", and many others. Essentially, the ones that could come back on her as being, shall we say, "less than truthful".
Well, I printed those out, and I imagine that there are backups or archives that still show them. Joe? Vern? Rick? Is that the case?

So, for any forum members who might have been holding to some sort of support, or belief that GRM has been a "victim", this is surely indicitive of how she operates... Pretty slimey.

If admin or any of the moderators can contact me, I'd appreciate it.


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

Good grief!!!!!!!!!!


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

I repeat.......time for that sense of humor......


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## ID_Hannah (Jun 8, 2006)

Geesh. :crazy:

I don't have any idea about the technical aspects of the boards & what if anything the mods/admin could recover. 

But if you corresponded with GRM at all on the boards and you want copies of what she said, that's now gone, I'd recommend googling it. I just checked and the cached pages haven't caught up to her changes. So you could probably get copies from the caches, for the time being anyway.


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

Yeah tcww I would say that is what you need right now. This is about a low a thing as I have witnessed on line lately.


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

ID_Hannah said:


> Geesh. :crazy:
> 
> I don't have any idea about the technical aspects of the boards & what if anything the mods/admin could recover.
> 
> But if you corresponded with GRM at all on the boards and you want copies of what she said, that's now gone, I'd recommend googling it. I just checked and the cached pages haven't caught up to her changes. So you could probably get copies from the caches, for the time being anyway.


Good one Hannah didn't think about that.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Edited with smiling wavies ... how much of a kick in the gut is that.

I hope those of you that are pursuing this find some measure of peace in the end.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> Edited with smiling wavies ... how much of a kick in the gut is that.
> 
> I hope those of you that are pursuing this find some measure of peace in the end.


 
My guess is that a jury will not find it amusing at all, much like they will not find not filing taxes since 1992 even a tiny bit amusing, either.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

I'm sure Joe has back up of everything....

At one point, Joe had even shut down the Edit feature for everyone, except Moderators and Admins......because of situations like these...


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

She didn't edit any of the stuff on the thread I started, but she was civil on that one. I have archives, anyway.

But all of her ads still say AKC/guarantee/whatever. I've archived them, too.


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## sophiesadiehannah's mom (Feb 11, 2007)

i do not know what to say, i am an eternal optimist, the glass is always half full for me. i guess i was duped i but really cannot rally around someone who apparently has been so decietful and i feel bad for this. i feel bad for all of you who paid so much for your pups and never recieved papers. i have nothing more to say on this subject and nothing more to say about grm.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Use Hannah's idea, it works


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Unbelievable but not surprising. She knows very well that you need proof and that many people think that what is ont he interent will always be there. And somethings are not so. I've learned it is always best to print it out if you really want it. Of course then you have to keep it somewhere you won't lose it.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

I will check with Joe and see if he can access it via backups....but didn't you say you had them all printed anyway?


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Contrary to the threats Ant had spewed in PMs to Joe and the mods, this is the reason why internet forums don't get sued... anyone can be anyone (as we all use forum aliases) and anything can be edited after the fact, therefore making it nearly impossible for statements made in postings to be used as legitimate sources for accusations in a court of law. Even 'copies' of postings can be easily faked. Its a lawyer's nightmare to try and prove anything using statements drawn from a forum. I think GRM took off the 'bad stuff' so that future forum members and angry puppy buyers will have a much harder time getting a 'bead' on her activities. Also she is paranoid enough to think that forum postings can be used against her in court. I suspect she'd been monitoring the forum as a 'guest' all this time (probably even now) but needed to log-on to remove (edit out) the bad incriminating stuff.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I think she needs to be banned. I don't see any reason why we would allow a member not in good standing within the breeding community to remain in good standing here.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Jo Ellen said:


> I think she needs to be banned. I don't see any reason why we would allow a member not in good standing within the breeding community to remain in good standing here.


I don't want to be the one to make that call.....if any other moderators agree with you, I'll gladly do it...


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

RickGibbs said:


> I don't want to be the one to make that call.....if any other moderators agree with you, I'll gladly do it...


Why not, Rick? What does it take? Honestly, I was banned for telling the truth, that no one wanted to hear. Isn't it blaringly obvious that Kimberly Schulz had harmed forum members, knowingly produced genetically defective dogs, and fraudulently deceived people, essentially robbing them, of thousands of dollars? I really need to understand your hesitation in taking a stand against HER. Because I really want to believe in the integrity of this forum in order to remain a member.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

PG... you have every right to be pi$$ed but I do understand Rick's reluctance... Joe doesn't really like the whole idea of banning and I feel just the same. Banning is merely shutting someone up and that doesn't actually solve anything... I kinda like the idea of free-speech and think it is self-righting in the long run. Besides anyone can sign back up under another name and continue... about the only thing banning GRM would do is prevent her from any further 'editing' of her past postings.


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

I got banned for way less than what she's doing LOL. IMHO this whole forum is about groups. A lot of you weren't here when I was blatanly being attacked EVERY DAY in here, yes IN THIS FORUM not just the other one, NO ONE did ANYTHING about it until NJB finally mouthed off to Rick like 4 months later.

Then I get banned because I got mad and told people basically to F off? lol 

Like seriously.... I know why you're pissed off PG, I really do. People get banned for dumb things then the ones who do need banning get to be free.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

monomer said:


> PG... you have every right to be pi$$ed but I do understand Rick's reluctance... Joe doesn't really like the whole idea of banning and I feel just the same. Banning is merely shutting someone up and that doesn't actually solve anything... I kinda like the idea of free-speech and think it is self-righting in the long run. Besides anyone can sign back up under another name and continue... about the only thing banning GRM would do is prevent her from any further 'editing' of her past postings.


And that in itself is very important. LET her sign back on under another name, but do not let her continuer to compromise the posts that she already made. Giving us all the finger all the while...
Pissed? No. Frustrated? Very. There was no hesitation in banning me. And I did NOT sign back up under another name. I plead my case honestly and with integrity.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

monomer said:


> PG... you have every right to be pi$$ed but I do understand Rick's reluctance... Joe doesn't really like the whole idea of banning and I feel just the same. Banning is merely shutting someone up and that doesn't actually solve anything... I kinda like the idea of free-speech and think it is self-righting in the long run. Besides anyone can sign back up under another name and continue... about the only thing banning GRM would do is prevent her from any further 'editing' of her past postings.


I agree. And actually her editing her posts just makes her look more guilty. And makes it that much more difficult to explain why she had to edit what she said if we were the ones lying.

And I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if she eventually "had" to post again. And it would be great if her ability to edit could be blocked at that time. Eventually she'll get what is coming to her. And most likely it will be her own doing.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

We're kinda going back and forth in two different threads...but I did a month long ban until I can talk to Joe about it...


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

ok so i had to check it out for myself....couldnt she have made it less obvious that she edited all the posts?????it must have taken her a long time to edit all those. there were TONS of them!!

it seems like shes just trying to get a rise out of everyone, with the wavery smilies......grrrrrrr.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

RickGibbs said:


> We're kinda going back and forth in two different threads...but I did a month long ban until I can talk to Joe about it...


Would she be able to compromise posts made as GRM using the account for GoldRocksDad, which still exists?


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

foreveramber said:


> ok so i had to check it out for myself....couldnt she have made it less obvious that she edited all the posts?????it must have taken her a long time to edit all those. there were TONS of them!!
> 
> it seems like shes just trying to get a rise out of everyone, with the wavery smilies......grrrrrrr.


That was pretty much my thought also. It was bad enough to edit them out but to leave the insult which I can hear her now saying wasn;t that was just a little too much.


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> Would she be able to compromise posts made a GRM using the account for GoldRocksDad, which still exists?


She can only edit from user name to same user name even if she created them both which I am sure she did. I think that is what you are asking.


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## Joe (Apr 9, 2005)

RickGibbs said:


> We're kinda going back and forth in two different threads...but I did a month long ban until I can talk to Joe about it...


As Monomer correctly said, ban would prevent her from editing her own posts.
So, if there is a valid proof, that she did edit her posts (to mislead an original discussion), ban this user without any further explanation - once for all.
I am very pro free speech, but she went a bit overboard with this.
You can extend your ban. If she wants she can still contact me by email to discuss.
Joe


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Joe said:


> As Monomer correctly said, ban would prevent her from editing her own posts.
> So, if there is a valid proof, that she did edit her posts (to mislead an original discussion), ban this user without any further explanation - once for all.
> I am very pro free speech, but she went a bit overboard with this.
> You can extend your ban. If she wants she can still contact me by email to discuss.
> Joe


Thank you Joe....that's all I needed to hear....


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Note to selves for future reference...If you quote a post then the OP can go back and edit all they want but the original post still shows up in the quote of your post.

For instance anyone that quoted GRM has the original post in theirs even though she edited her own.


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

marshab1 said:


> Note to selves for future reference...If you quote a post then the OP can go back and edit all they want but the original post still shows up in the quote of your post.
> 
> For instance anyone that quoted GRM has the original post in theirs even though she edited her own.


Your one smart cookie. This is correct!!!!


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

marshab1 said:


> Note to selves for future reference...If you quote a post then the OP can go back and edit all they want but the original post still shows up in the quote of your post.
> 
> For instance anyone that quoted GRM has the original post in theirs even though she edited her own.


Even if you go back and edit your post for good reason, if someone has responded to your post, at times that can make a whole thread look crazy. And I think that's why Joe isn't a big fan of deleting stuff...or at least part of the reason....


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

It can get a little squirrely looking for real.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

I agree, that is one of the things I really like about this forum. Deleting is discouraged and the mods and admin don't delete.


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

And if Grasshopper accidently deletes being new his master Mod will correct him and give him the low down. :slap: Which he appreciates very much.


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

But, is all that history gone now? What about future users. I felt very comfortable with with the fact that anyone who Googled GoldRocks could find the truth here.


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## HovawartMom (Aug 10, 2006)

We have great moderatosrs and people,in this forum!.Thanks,L.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

In the old days I not only printed out information, but printed out the source code. My printer dates everything.

Maybe from now on if someone has an issue with someone else, the person should be quoted??? I know at work and at home, we have everything backed up.


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## mist (Jun 23, 2007)

Is it possible for either a moderator or Joe to put back the original posts, just for continuety as well as knowing that future readers will get the information that may help them make a more accurate decision? Also I find the smillies a mockery to the people effected by her scam


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Doesn't Google cache the older pages???


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## Faith's mommy (Feb 26, 2007)

you can't hide from the internet archive :wavey:

below is the page for this forum. you can look at anything saved by date - 

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://goldenretrieverforum.com


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## Bailey & Bentley (Feb 25, 2007)

I didn't even know you could edit a thread, interesting......I will have to look up some terrible stuff I did and erase it all, lol.:scratchch:scratchch


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Faith's mommy said:


> you can't hide from the internet archive :wavey:
> 
> below is the page for this forum. you can look at anything saved by date -
> 
> http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://goldenretrieverforum.com


I forgot about this site, but when I looked the last time I couldn't find something. :uhoh:


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

If you look at Google, it links to the threads and posts, yes. But they are the ones that the woman edited, so you see her asterisks and smileys and waveys. 

She is very smug, I'm sure, but I do have quite a bit of it printed (not all). And I have to believe that by the very act of having deleted them, it will not look good for her either by a judge or jury.

It simply means that I will have to go through those threads and find any replies in which hers were quoted. I tend to not always quote an entire post because I was taught that good internet etiquette dictates that you do not, as it takes up bandwidth. I will take the time to do this, because those posts of hers were damning. (WHich is of course why she deleted them.) It would be most helpful if Joe DOES have a back up, or, if any individual who knows they might have replied and quoted her would be willing to forward that to me, or a link, I would be most appreciative. I'd love to get those quotes of hers back up so that they ARE immediately seen by new folks who might be looking for information either about her, or who would be considering a dog from her.

While she is probably feeling quite clever right now, I think that everyone would agree that what she has done has made it GLARINGLY apparent what her true colors are. Mainly, yellow. Most assuredly NOT "Golden".


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

PG, google them again and then click CACHE... in the results. The originals will the be displayed for you to print.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> PG, google them again and then click CACHE... in the results. The originals will the be displayed for you to print.


I am not finding that. For example, how would I find her thread "you would not know the truth if it bit you"? Everything I find has her edited version.


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

So, GRM doesn't have time to send paperwork to her customers, doesn't have time to send her clearances in, but she does have time to edit all her posts??????

So much time invested in being deceitful. Wouldn't life be much easier if she practiced something called integrity?

If I were GRM, I would not be patting myself on the back for being "clever." All the stuff she's going through, with lawsuits, the township, the neighbors, the newspapers and now a forum that at one time thought her to be an honest breeder, and it was all brought on by herself. Nothing clever about that.

Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Maybe hopefully some people have saved some of her PM's.


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

It's very sad, but I'm guessing that every last person out there has now seen her true colors. My guess is we can thank Monomer for that. I personally, did not have the nerve to do it. 

Since this is the newest thread about her, I think that anyone who googles Goldrocks, will find this thread for quite some time. The truth about Michigan? That is a good one.


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

Phoebe said:


> So much time invested in being deceitful. Wouldn't life be much easier if she practiced something called integrity?
> 
> Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


Integrity not only saves time it lets you lay down at night and have a good nights rest.

I agree with Vern and others PG and Vern are to be thanked for sticking to their guns and pulling a couple of us reluctantly along to the truth of this situation. If there was any way I coud have had a doubt left she killed it with this slimey act.


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

TheHooch said:


> Integrity not only saves time it lets you lay down at night and have a good nights rest.
> 
> I agree with Vern and others PG and Vern are to be thanked for sticking to their guns and pulling a couple of us reluctantly along to the truth of this situation. If there was any way I coud have had a doubt left she killed it with this slimey act.


Well the thing that made me sick, was seeing the mention on another internet forum of how accomodating the GRF was to her. I almost puked after I read that. This place is my home on the internet. I can't stand to see others posting stuff like that.


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## Lexie's Mom (Dec 14, 2005)

RickGibbs said:


> I'm sure Joe has back up of everything....
> 
> At one point, Joe had even shut down the Edit feature for everyone, except Moderators and Admins......because of situations like these...


and alot of good that did too (at least in my case it was a moderator who edited my post)


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Is she forum jumping, as in currently?


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

vrocco1 said:


> Well the thing that made me sick, was seeing the mention on another internet forum of how accomodating the GRF was to her. I almost puked after I read that. This place is my home on the internet. I can't stand to see others posting stuff like that.


I did not see that but did catch wind of it. ANd being my knew home I am very protective of it.


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> Is she forum jumping, as in currently?


You know if it were anyone else I would say that she learned her lessons about forums and would fade into the wood work and worry about her troubles locally. With this person nothing would suprise me one bit.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

By looking at her websites, I would not be surprised if she it forum jumping. It is probably the only way she can build future "business transactions". Everybody local probably is already aware of her.


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

Faith's mommy said:


> you can't hide from the internet archive :wavey:
> 
> below is the page for this forum. you can look at anything saved by date -
> 
> http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://goldenretrieverforum.com


I didn't even know that you could do this!  Here is something that you won't see again--a blast from the past, the home page of GRF on the day that it opened with very few posts on it:

http://web.archive.org/web/20050411095030/http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

My lord. That just sums up GRM in a nutshell doesn't it. That is so decietful. Fortunately we all know her caliber, but other buyers won't be so lucky. I'm at a lost for words being an honest person that I am......


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

I got a call the other night from a person who was thinking about purchasing a puppy from GRM. They had visited her house the previous Sunday and then found the forum. They had saw on the forum that I was a breeder and had visited and they called to get my opinion of GRM. I told them honestly that if it were me, I would not buy a puppy from her. So, hopefully, I saved someone some heartache.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Well, if this goes to a juried trial the little smilies will shed light on her character. It's really quite sad. 

I'm still concerned about the dogs. What will happen to them? I hope there is family or friends that will step in to care for them if need be.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

telsmith1 said:


> I got a call the other night from a person who was thinking about purchasing a puppy from GRM. They had visited her house the previous Sunday and then found the forum. They had saw on the forum that I was a breeder and had visited and they called to get my opinion of GRM. I told them honestly that if it were me, I would not buy a puppy from her. So, hopefully, I saved someone some heartache.


Was Schulz actually at her house? (the one that she tells the township that she doesn't own or live at, but is only a "caretaker" for...) This would mean that she is knowingly and willingly refusing to accept certified letters, UPS deliveries, and court summons from the process server. And, obviously, since she spent so much time altering her own damning posts, she would have access to her emails, but is choosing not to answer them. As with her phone calls. She evidently only has time or will accept contact from, those who she might sell another misrepresented puppy to...

I refuse to refer to that woman as ANY kind of "Mom" - she doesn't deserve it.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Pointgold, I wanted to ask this quetion via PM, but see that you are not accepting PM's. When you were banned, were you told why?


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I was the first to actually call her a puppy mill (by my definition- any high volume breeder/breeder for money with lots of dogs is a puppy miller of some nature) here, and I got ripped for it. Go figure.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

mylissyk said:


> Pointgold, I wanted to ask this quetion via PM, but see that you are not accepting PM's. When you were banned, were you told why?


I was not told "why" when I was banned, at least not in the sense that "I am going to ban you because..." I was banned because the Schulz woman had so thoroughly convinced the nice people on this forum that she was just wonderful, and posted millions of cute pictures of puppies and dogs wearing hats, and told of how she "rescues" dogs and provides "service dogs", and "search and rescue" dogs, and "autism dogs" and does all clearances, and stands behind her dogs 100% - with her "lifetime guarantee"... And me pointing out her AKC suspension, her lack of clearances, her breeding under-aged dogs, her hypocricy re: what she says vs what she actually does, her lawsuits... that was me being "mean, hateful, and attacking her". And no one wanted to see that on their forum. Who can blame them? I sure can't. But it was more important to me that the truth be known and that this forum was not used as a cash cow for _any_ unscrupulous "breeders" to hawk their wares and those nice people not end up in the same position as tcww, dave & sandi kliza, and jaxson than it was to have them like me. I'm sorry, but can you all imagine what it would have been like had timm and melissa, so heartbroken over the loss of their sweet Katie, gotten one of those puppies only to end up like the other buyers? Either filing, or contemplating filing lawsuits simply to have contracts and guarantees honored? It would have been cruel..
And so, apparently, the complaints about me poured in to the mods and there were finally enough straws to break the camel's back. Thus, I was banned. It's history. Finito. I just pray that no more damages were done to anyone on this forum who might have fallen for all of it. And that those who did, find resolution in their favor and that their dogs grow up healthy and sound.


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> I was the first to actually call her a puppy mill (by my definition- any high volume breeder/breeder for money with lots of dogs is a puppy miller of some nature) here, and I got ripped for it. Go figure.


 
so is this like a "i hate to say i told you so???"


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

Pointgold said:


> Was Schulz actually at her house? (the one that she tells the township that she doesn't own or live at, but is only a "caretaker" for...) This would mean that she is knowingly and willingly refusing to accept certified letters, UPS deliveries, and court summons from the process server. And, obviously, since she spent so much time altering her own damning posts, she would have access to her emails, but is choosing not to answer them. As with her phone calls. She evidently only has time or will accept contact from, those who she might sell another misrepresented puppy to...
> 
> I refuse to refer to that woman as ANY kind of "Mom" - she doesn't deserve it.



From what the man told me, they met with her at her house last Sunday to meet her dogs.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Hmmm, maybe LOL I am human after all. I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt, like everyone else.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Hmmm, maybe LOL I am human after all. I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt, like everyone else.


 
Several people called her a HVB, and a puppy mill. I didn't see any of them bashed or called out for it, even you, ACC.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

You didn't read my PMs lol but it really doesn't matter now. People know the truth


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I started out not believing her and had just decided to try to ignore her posts. Then she had a thread to the Veterans, and she got very upset because people weren't responding. Then somewhere along the way, I started to think that maybe she was the victim. It wasn't until somebody had actually posted the K9data stuff that I saw it. Then the Flint newspaper story. I am so ashamed that I had to see it in black and white to believe it, but then again I am very gullible, and try to see the good in everybody. A lesson learned.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

cubbysan said:


> I started out not believing her and had just decided to try to ignore her posts. Then she had a thread to the Veterans, and she got very upset because people weren't responding. Then somewhere along the way, I started to think that maybe she was the victim. It wasn't until somebody had actually posted the K9data stuff that I saw it. Then the Flint newspaper story. I am so ashamed that I had to see it in black and white to believe it, but then again I am very gullible, and try to see the good in everybody. A lesson learned.


Don't be ashamed, cubbysan. It speaks for your own character that you could not imagine someone doing what she has been accused of. 

Criminal's and con artists count on the kind hearts and honesty of their victims. They don't go after those who are like themselves.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

cubbysan said:


> By looking at her websites, I would not be surprised if she it forum jumping. It is probably the only way she can build future "business transactions". Everybody local probably is already aware of her.


This is one of the problems not everyone local does know. And those that do are so afraid of her that they don't say anything. Or worse yet as I discovered they say something positive. And she seems to sell a lot of dogs to new dog owners. So many of them my not have a vet of their own. So they call local vets who are afraid or they call the local humane society all of whom are afraid to say anything other than something good.

And there was 1 newspaper article a few years ago. If it was that bad wouldn't there be more? And this paper is known for printing inaccurate articles. The small paper in that area is much better at covering this they've had several but if you don't subscribe to the paper you won't know that. I live 20 miles away and don't get that paper. I'd have to drive 10 miles to get it. And their website is not geared to internet users they want people to buy the paper. So unfortunately there are still lots of people that will be bilked out of their money and end up with a sick puppy. And how many people searching for a puppy PAY to do court case searches or newspaper searches?


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

marshab1 said:


> This is one of the problems not everyone local does know. And those that do are so afraid of her that they don't say anything. Or worse yet as I discovered they say something positive. And she seems to sell a lot of dogs to new dog owners. So many of them my not have a vet of their own. So they call local vets who are afraid or they call the local humane society all of whom are afraid to say anything other than something good.
> 
> And there was 1 newspaper article a few years ago. If it was that bad wouldn't there be more? And this paper is known for printing inaccurate articles. The small paper in that area is much better at covering this they've had several but if you don't subscribe to the paper you won't know that. I live 20 miles away and don't get that paper. I'd have to drive 10 miles to get it. And their website is not geared to internet users they want people to buy the paper. So unfortunately there are still lots of people that will be bilked out of their money and end up with a sick puppy. And how many people searching for a puppy PAY to do court case searches or newspaper searches?


More local people ARE beginning to tell their stories. The Ft Detroit Golden Retriever Club and GRROM are VERY aware of her and her operation, and have fielded many many complaints about it over the years. All of this is catching up.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

What I don't understand what are all the locals afraid of? Lawsuits? Or is there even more to the story that has not come out?


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

You said it lawsuits!!!!!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

cubbysan said:


> What I don't understand what are all the locals afraid of? Lawsuits? Or is there even more to the story that has not come out?


There have been threats.


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

I got lost a long time ago--coming back and deleting, archives, quotes kept, etvc. Maybe i need to take some classes on using a computer!


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

3 goldens said:


> I got lost a long time ago--coming back and deleting, archives, quotes kept, etvc. Maybe i need to take some classes on using a computer!


I must say as long as I have been around the interent this has been one of the strangest things I have encountered too. It is easy to get lost.


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

*Update*

Have now filed complaints with:

1) Federal Internet Fraud website
2) Ripoffreport.com
3) Greater Detroit BBB
4) Michigan Attorney General

Not a lot of red tape, and all done on-line.


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

tcww said:


> Have now filed complaints with:
> 
> 1) Federal Internet Fraud website
> 2) Ripoffreport.com
> ...


I hope at least one of them can do something on your behalf!!


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

I hope so. I've done what I can, from a distance, so I guess we'll wait and see.


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## Farley Rocks! (Nov 15, 2007)

I actually contacted Schulz when I was researching breeders...a contact my mother gave me....but I found this forum and spoke to a member whose views I respected and she said...ahhhh....keep looking! I continued my research, double checked my top picks, and ended up with Farley!
:
Thank you!


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

I'm happy to report that the person who called me about her, decided to go with another breeder and did not get one from GRM.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

tcww said:


> I hope so. I've done what I can, from a distance, so I guess we'll wait and see.


Have you checked to see if you can file a suit against her in your own county? I believe that you might be able to... I know that suits are filed all the time in venues different from where one party involved lives. It makes it a PIA for the other party if they have to travel. I know of one case - a dog co-ownership situation - where the breeder/owners of the dog lived in California, but filed suit in New York. The co-owners were from MI. 
Where's that Perry Mason when we need him?:doh:


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## Emmysourgolden (Oct 10, 2007)

So if she's been banned can she read the posts on here?? It's kind of too bad to severe a way of communicating everyone's thoughts with her. (I'm definitely not saying she shouldn't have been banned...it's just you know she was reading all this)


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Emmysourgolden said:


> So if she's been banned can she read the posts on here?? It's kind of too bad to severe a way of communicating everyone's thoughts with her. (I'm definitely not saying she shouldn't have been banned...it's just you know she was reading all this)


Which makes her refusal to help her puppy buyers all the more loathesome, after all her posts on here about what breeders should do...


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

*Lawyers*



Pointgold said:


> Have you checked to see if you can file a suit against her in your own county? I believe that you might be able to... I know that suits are filed all the time in venues different from where one party involved lives. It makes it a PIA for the other party if they have to travel. I know of one case - a dog co-ownership situation - where the breeder/owners of the dog lived in California, but filed suit in New York. The co-owners were from MI.
> Where's that Perry Mason when we need him?:doh:


Filing a suit requires a lawyer, and that requires up front money. That's something I'm not willing to do. The assumption is that Kimberly would travel to Illinois when she won't even go to the courthouse in her own county? The only people who win in that situation are the lawyers.

If this ever got large enough, could it be a class action?


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## Emmysourgolden (Oct 10, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> Which makes her refusal to help her puppy buyers all the more loathesome, after all her posts on here about what breeders should do...


Oh I absolutely agree. I just like the idea of her being able to see what everyone thinks of her.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

tcww said:


> Filing a suit requires a lawyer, and that requires up front money. That's something I'm not willing to do. The assumption is that Kimberly would travel to Illinois when she won't even go to the courthouse in her own county? The only people who win in that situation are the lawyers.
> 
> If this ever got large enough, could it be a class action?


You are right, of course. I would think just having a suit filed, which you do not need a lawyer for, would be more proof of what she is (is not) doing...

Perry? PERRY? Where _ARE _You, Perry?


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

....and I don't think I've ever met an altruistic lawyer.


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

Thought it was interesting that one of the questions I answered in the BBB complaint was whether or not I was a veteran.

I think it's also interesting how Goldrocks has a "Thank you" to the troops on their home page. Guess that's for taking them for a ride?


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

Word of the day.......

"Vitriolic"


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

tcww said:


> Word of the day.......
> 
> "Vitriolic"


Amen Brother Ben...


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## dave&sandikliza (Sep 12, 2007)

*Gold Rocks Kalli*



tcww said:


> Thought it was interesting that one of the questions I answered in the BBB complaint was whether or not I was a veteran.
> 
> I think it's also interesting how Goldrocks has a "Thank you" to the troops on their home page. Guess that's for taking them for a ride?


We have filed our complaints with internet fraud department and the consumer protection division of the Attorney Generals office. We will soon proceed with the others.

We sincerely wish everyone the best of luck with their upcoming proceedings.Kalli is looking forward to her first Thanksgiving as she will have two other playmates visiting. She will be getting preliminary hip X rays when she is spayed, as it is our understanding that there have been other pups with this problem.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

dave&sandikliza said:


> We have filed our complaints with internet fraud department and the consumer protection division of the Attorney Generals office. We will soon proceed with the others.
> 
> We sincerely wish everyone the best of luck with their upcoming proceedings.Kalli is looking forward to her first Thanksgiving as she will have two other playmates visiting. She will be getting preliminary hip X rays when she is spayed, as it is our understanding that there have been other pups with this problem.


Happy Thanksgiving to you and Kalli, who I am sure is thankful to have such wonderful, loving owners. I so hope that Kalli's prelims show no signs of dysplasia. I'm sorry that you find yourself in this situation.


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## AtticusJordie (Aug 15, 2006)

What a totally sad situation all around.

As a GR owner who certainly isn't in the front of the line in understanding all of the intracacies of breeding, 'papers' and the like, I want to express my appreciation to all of you for taking a stand (and sticking to your guns) about GRM. Our paths will probably never cross, but I guarantee you that she will never be selling a pup to us. 

Our household truely believes in karma; and what GRM has done will eventually come around to haunt her--in spades. And I don't want to be anywhere near her when it happens.

SJ


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## jaxson (Oct 9, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> You are right, of course. I would think just having a suit filed, which you do not need a lawyer for, would be more proof of what she is (is not) doing...
> 
> Perry? PERRY? Where _ARE _You, Perry?


 
Here I am. In my communications with legal counsel both local and in MI, as well as the Attorney Generals office, the suit needs to be filed where the transaction took place. Given that the exchange of money and goods occurred in fenton, I had to file in her county court system. Therefore, I needed to waste a day of vacation and travel expenses to file the suit. But, hoping for success, I will gain all that back.

Jaxson

I will let you all know how this goes as I am in court with her on the 29th.


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

Good luck Jaxson!!!!!!


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## Elway&Prince (Sep 6, 2007)

I must have missed some posts somewhere what's going on with GRM? Have I've been MIA that many times that I missed this? What happened? If you don't want to post here can you pm me? GRM seemed like a nice person.


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

If you were to be awarded anything, do you really think you could collect? You may be wasting a lot of time effort and money.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

vrocco1 said:


> If you were to be awarded anything, do you really think you could collect? You may be wasting a lot of time effort and money.


If a plaintiff wins his or her suit, and the defendant does not pay the amount awarded, wages can be garnished and/or property can be seized. This could include animals, or presumably the money made from the sales of same.

And, for some, I am sure that there is the principle thing...


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> If a plaintiff wins his or her suit, and the defendant does not pay the amount awarded, wages can be garnished and/or property can be seized. This could include animals, or presumably the money made from the sales of same.
> 
> And, for some, I am sure that there is the principle thing...


If the animals are taken, how many here are willing to provide them with a warm and loving home? My concern in all of this is her dogs. Your dogs, too, but what happens if her dogs need a home???


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Kimm said:


> If the animals are taken, how many here are willing to provide them with a warm and loving home? My concern in all of this is her dogs. Your dogs, too, but what happens if her dogs need a home???


I assure you that the best interests of the animals, all of them, are of the utmost concern, and that they will be fine. None of them will be left wanting for anything...


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Oh this is soooooo tragic for all going through this! The purchase of a puppy should be a happy experience, not what GRM has made it! I pray that all of you that are involved with her get satisfaction. I am glad I found out what she was up to before getting another puppy as I had considered her for our next baby!

As for the dogs, what do you think the courts will do with them? Will they be placed?

Jazzys Mom


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> I assure you that the best interests of the animals, all of them, are of the utmost concern, and that they will be fine. None of them will be left wanting for anything...


Thank you! I now feel better knowing that they will be fine. Thank you for sharing this info. This puts my mind at ease.


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## heaven (Nov 3, 2007)

I have been reading the threads and still am not sure what its all about. Someone was on her lied to alot of people made up stories and also tried to sell pups with no papers? What a sad individual and sad situation she is one very mixed up unhealthy person and we dont need anyone like that on her that my point on it.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Pointgold said:


> If a plaintiff wins his or her suit, and the defendant does not pay the amount awarded, wages can be garnished and/or property can be seized. This could include animals, or presumably the money made from the sales of same.
> 
> And, for some, I am sure that there is the principle thing...


And sometimes the principle and being able to say I didn't just lay down and let you take advantage of me are the most worthwhile reasons to do this.


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## dave&sandikliza (Sep 12, 2007)

*Gold Rocks Kalli*



marshab1 said:


> And sometimes the principle and being able to say I didn't just lay down and let you take advantage of me are the most worthwhile reasons to do this.


Good luck in court Jaxon. We wish we could be there but work schedules don't permit. Do you have an attorney? Any advice would be much appreciated.We are also planning to persue this. We will be filing a report with the police. If anyone else plans to do this the proper department is the Livingston County Sheriffs Dept. as Tyrone Township does not have a police force.We have found that GRM has a court date with the Twp. Jan. 3.Looks like things are moving along.What is the opinion of the Forum regarding media coverage? Out our way, south of Detroit, Fox 2 has what's called the Hall of Shame where they expose people such as GRM.Not sure if this avenue would help or hinder court cases. Any legal advice out there? 
DAVE AND SANDI


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## AtticusJordie (Aug 15, 2006)

Pointgold said:


> I assure you that the best interests of the animals, all of them, are of the utmost concern, and that they will be fine. None of them will be left wanting for anything...


Given the group dynamics here on the Forum--even in the worst case scenario that the judge pulls all of GRMs dogs/pups and says they all have to be 'placed' somewhere--I'm sure the folks here plus the GR rescues in the area will snatch up those sweeties in a heartbeat!

SJ


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

dave&sandikliza said:


> Good luck in court Jaxon. We wish we could be there but work schedules don't permit. Do you have an attorney? Any advice would be much appreciated.We are also planning to persue this. We will be filing a report with the police. If anyone else plans to do this the proper department is the Livingston County Sheriffs Dept. as Tyrone Township does not have a police force.We have found that GRM has a court date with the Twp. Jan. 3.Looks like things are moving along.What is the opinion of the Forum regarding media coverage? Out our way, south of Detroit, Fox 2 has what's called the Hall of Shame where they expose people such as GRM.Not sure if this avenue would help or hinder court cases. Any legal advice out there?
> DAVE AND SANDI


This is a link to a local station in GRM's area that just did a report on bogus on-line breeders. I missed it when it was on TV and my computer only lets me use Flash Player now and then on certain sites. but they might be willing to do a story.

WNEM - Video

Other local stations

ABC12.com: abc12.com for news, weather, sports and information from Mid-Michigan

Home : NBC25 Online

I think getting the media involved depends on what your motives are. Getting them involved will help keep others from making a mistake. It could help shut her down eventually. But all of that means she will not be making money which makes it that much harder to collect a judgement from her.

But if it was me...the money would be an added bonus, exposing her would my justice.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

dave&sandikliza said:


> Good luck in court Jaxon. We wish we could be there but work schedules don't permit. Do you have an attorney? Any advice would be much appreciated.We are also planning to persue this. We will be filing a report with the police. If anyone else plans to do this the proper department is the Livingston County Sheriffs Dept. as Tyrone Township does not have a police force.We have found that GRM has a court date with the Twp. Jan. 3.Looks like things are moving along.What is the opinion of the Forum regarding media coverage? Out our way, south of Detroit, Fox 2 has what's called the Hall of Shame where they expose people such as GRM.Not sure if this avenue would help or hinder court cases. Any legal advice out there?
> DAVE AND SANDI


What a busy girl Ms. Shulz will be... Tyrone Township case on Jan 3, 2008. Jury selection for our case on Jan 3, 2008, with trial date Jan 4, 2008. My head would be spinning... Wonder which case she'll choose to attend, if any...

I think that contacting Fox 2 is a great idea. It shouldn't affect any of the cases.


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