# prey driven



## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

I have a 10 month old red ,i know next to nothing about hunting, she seems she wants to go after the ducks,on the water we live on, i feel i am being unfair to her, we don't hunt, what do you think?


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## Angelina (Aug 11, 2011)

Just give her other things to spend her energy on...does not have to be live critters! If you are not into hunting so what? My little red field golden LOVES running and then jumping into the water after balls. She is obcessed! Do I feel bad because I'm not hunting ducks....NO! I only want to hunt ducks with my zoom lense, not a rifle!

Now can we see some pictures of her?


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

What i mean,is i wonder if i am keeping her from doing,what she was breed for, is she truley happy, does that make sense?


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## Angelina (Aug 11, 2011)

I am pretty sure my girl is truly happy and she is not going after live prey....

You don't miss what you don't know about....

It is our choice as humans to hunt dogs for our gratification. Sure, some dogs thrive on jobs; but the job could be anything. My girl's job is to bring me the ball at times. Other times it is to sniff out what I've hidden (scenting classes) and bring it to me. Other times to have her tummy rubbed. She acts happy, energetic, does not mope around, bounces and flips her head when I come home...and has never touched a duck. Yet I have no doubt if someone else owned her and started her right she would be superb at it.

The real question is what gratifies you?

Picture please...


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I think you are doing your part by getting her in the water where she _can _chase ducks. As long as her obedience is solid and you can get her to come back to you, I doubt she's missing the restrictions, rigidity, focused training, zap collars, ear pinches, and WORK that is hunt. 

I admire people who do hunt and I may do some form of it in the future... but a lot of it is for us and not necessarily the dogs. It's the same with obedience. We as trainers enjoy having a polished dog, but to a certain extent if you left our dogs to do what they REALLY want to do, it would be dancing around the ring and making people laugh. The right kind of training can make it fun and enjoyable for the dogs, but there's a lot of work...


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

As long as she has something to do and you are not keeping her from exercising or working on something such as fetch or agility or whatever you choose to do with her then no you are not depriving her of anything.

If we went by what a dog was bred to do then by all rights I should be fighting my American Pit Bull Terrier because that is what her breed was bred for. I dont and I never ever would. Her job is to find things( tracking) and fetching her ball and make me laugh she is really good at be a clown.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

I am sure she is plenty happy without playing the retrieve game....although it is true dogs do love it. 

I am new to field training with my dog. Sure she plays certain parts of the game for me, but I honestly wouldn't bother doing it if she didn't love the game. If you ever want to give it a shot you can always look for a local hunting retriever club or golden retriever club and see if they have any field days and take your dog just for fun and experience.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

goldensrbest said:


> I have a 10 month old red ,i know next to nothing about hunting, she seems she wants to go after the ducks,on the water we live on, i feel i am being unfair to her, we don't hunt, what do you think?


I think that it's time to take a Hunter Safety Course and start hunting.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

My first golden, King, had an extreme hunting drive. He did do some hunt training and work, although at the time I did not realize that hunters were what kept most of of conservation areas going & maintained, and so was opposed to hunting. But - King needed it -- so he got to do it.

My little red, Casey, has a strong drive as does my Faelan, Casey's drive was successfully channeled into agility while Faelan is being trained for hunt tests, etc. 

The Hunter Safety Course is truly eye-opening on exactly how critical a role hunters play in maintaining and improving our wildlife & lands - if you can, take the course, and then decide whether you want to participate


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Thanks all, but i don't want to hunt,at all.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I don't hunt  But my dogs do retrieve...


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Well you don't have to hunt. Actually, you don't have to hunt even to be involved in hunt tests. Or just to go to an activity if you are interested and just for a day see what your dog thinks of it. But it is up to you, I am sure she is happy dog without.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

goldensrbest said:


> I have a 10 month old red ,i know next to nothing about hunting, she seems she wants to go after the ducks,on the water we live on, i feel i am being unfair to her, we don't hunt, what do you think?


It sounds like you have a strong retriever that needs to be organized through training. Having prey drive is essential if a dog is to be a strong performer in the field. Basics, Basics, Basics.

It takes around 6 months on average to take one thoroughly step by step all the way from formalized obedience through Swim-by. It's the very foundation on which all more advanced skills are built and maintained over the course of a working dog's career.

*The components of Basics in order*​​1) “Here”​2) “Heel & Sit”​3) “Hold”; automatically evolves to Walking “Hold, Heel, Sit”
4) “Fetch”; ear pinch, which evolves into Walking “Fetch” & “Fetch-no-fetch”, e-collar conditioning to “Fetch”
5) Pile work, including Mini-pile, Nine bumper pile; AKA Force to pile
6) 3-handed casting; teaching the 3 basic casts – “Back” and both “Over’s”, including 2-hands _“Back”_
7) Mini tee; includes collar conditioning to all basic commands, transferring to the _go, stop, cast _functions in micro dimension as preparation for the Single tee. *Also includes De-bolting*
8) Single tee
9)  Double tee
10)Water force, Water tee with Swim-by
​EvanG​


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

I dont hunt and I dont plan on hunting but I am training Jige to do the hunt test/trials. He loves it. I do however have a friend that hunts ducks every years and I have made plans with him to go out with Jige. He has never hunted with a dog and said it might be nice to know he can take a shot and if he cant get to the bird the dog will o out and get it.


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## willip (Oct 27, 2010)

Chester LUURRRVEEES to go hunting with OH but our season only last 2 months..the rest of the year its dummies...which he also LUUURRRRVEESS. As long as hes retrieving he doesn't actually care if its live or dummies!


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

I GUESS I WONDER, IF SHE WOULD BE BETTER OFF, GOING TO SOMEONE,THAT CAN GIVE HER WHAT I CAN NOT,i had a red before,and she was not ,of the same temperment, so this has been , a new thing with me, as not every owner,is right for a certain dog, a not every dog ,is right for every person, PLEASE NO JUMPING ON ME, FOR THINKING,AND ASKING THIS QUESTION, TRYING TO GET SOME ANSWERS HERE.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Goldensrbest*

Goldensrbest

I'm sure your girl is VERY HAPPY with you, with all of the love and affection you shower on her. That is all that dogs really want!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

goldensrbest said:


> I GUESS I WONDER, IF SHE WOULD BE BETTER OFF, GOING TO SOMEONE,THAT CAN GIVE HER WHAT I CAN NOT.


I think it's fair to ask this question if your dog is not thriving with you. If you feel you are not giving that dog a good home and providing for that dog mentally, physically, and I guess emotionally. 

My great-grandparents rehomed one of their beagles because they were old and couldn't provide enough exercise for that dog for him to be happy and healthy. The dog kept running out into the street and wouldn't stop until he was tired. This was near downtown Chicago, so very frightening for them. 

They rehomed the dog with family outside the city who owned plenty of land and fenced in yard for that dog to run on without risk of injury. 

That was a case where they made the best decision for that dog. 

Rehoming a golden with a high retrieve... I would do it if you couldn't control that dog, if that dog is "too much dog" for you to handle and the result would be a dog who is destroying the home or hurting herself because of boredom or running loose into the streets or wherever because she's needs a more experienced training hand to make her obey. 

These are very serious things to consider if you are having problems and are worried about something bad happening to her because of her energy and drive.

But as far as worrying if she's happy? I wouldn't. As I said, I'm sure she is completely thrilled that you take her places where she can swim and indulge in her birdy instincts. She doesn't have to be piling titles on to be happy.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

megora said:


> i think it's fair to ask this question if your dog is not thriving with you. If you feel you are not giving that dog a good home and providing for that dog mentally, physically, and i guess emotionally.
> 
> My great-grandparents rehomed one of their beagles because they were old and couldn't provide enough exercise for that dog for him to be happy and healthy. The dog kept running out into the street and wouldn't stop until he was tired. This was near downtown chicago, so very frightening for them.
> 
> ...


 my main concern, is her being happy, also the biting problem, i have in the laying with spirit, she is rough with him, very much so, so maybe she is sooo rough, because her drive is not being met?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

goldensrbest said:


> my main concern, is her being happy, also the biting problem, i have in the laying with spirit, she is rough with him, very much so, so maybe she is sooo rough, because her drive is not being met?


It could be she's just being obnoxious and needs time to grow up. 

I'm sure she has more busy instincts and "drive" than my guy who is mostly conformation lines. But that first year was horrible because of my mom calling me up every day and complaining about Jacks chewing on Danny. We never experienced anything like that before because our previous dogs had a bit less tolerance and fewer manners when it came to teaching biting inhibition to the puppies. Danny would not even growl at Jacks. He would lay there and squeeze his eyes shut. 

What helped over time, and what I advised my mom to do every time she called was put him in my bedroom every time he got into his obnoxious kicks and there wasn't somebody around to keep Jacks on leash. 

The other somewhat kooky thing is our collie also helped. Every time Jacks bit Arthur's hair (he didn't even have to bite any skin), Arthur would immediately pin Jacks. And this led to every time Jacks would try chewing on Danny around Arthur, Arthur would swoop in to correct Jacks. 

So I basically told mom to make sure Arthur was around if Jacks was loose around Danny. Otherwise, Jacks had to be taken for a walk down to my bedroom to chill or taken outside, etc. 

He did settle down. It just takes time.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

goldensrbest said:


> i had a red before,and she was not ,of the same temperment, so this has been , a new thing with me.


You won't ever have two dogs that are just alike. And biting is not unusal for Goldens - even those with "red" hair. 'Reds' are not a different breed or class of Golden. Each dog is different in looks, temperament, ability, etc.

If you feel you're not up to effectively dealing with a problem, seeking a pro is a sound idea. That's what we're for.

EvanG


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Megora said:


> It could be she's just being obnoxious and needs time to grow up.
> 
> I'm sure she has more busy instincts and "drive" than my guy who is mostly conformation lines. But that first year was horrible because of my mom calling me up every day and complaining about Jacks chewing on Danny. We never experienced anything like that before because our previous dogs had a bit less tolerance and fewer manners when it came to teaching biting inhibition to the puppies. Danny would not even growl at Jacks. He would lay there and squeeze his eyes shut.
> 
> ...


 It could be, that time, will take care of this, i have been correcting her, so with age maybe, i sure hope so.


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## Angelina (Aug 11, 2011)

It sounds like this is a different issue then what the thread started out as....

I have a very laid back older dog and then 'rescued' a very high energy 'red' dog....I found out they are labeled field retrievers and I never knew they existed. This dog keeps me on my toes and is very energetic but also very loving and snuggly as the golden retriever is. However, she is a big player (with other dogs) and my older gal will not play with dogs period. It presented a problem.

The first 6 months I divided the yard and kept them seperated when not at home. I enforced with her that she could not play with the older dog period. I took her to classes; hired a dog 'exerciser' and trained her with basic house manners (she had none). It was and still is a true commitment in time, money, energy and being willing to rehome her (quickly) if it was not going to work out.

Today, one year later she is well balanced and happy. The dogs eat their marrow bones side by side, Nellie leaves Angelina alone and they are 'companions'. The exercise continues daily with my dog walker and myself, the weekends are spent wearing her out! The evenings are all about the dogs. I love her to death and do not regret it; but completely understand if this 'type' of high energy dog is not for everyone....


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

My MacKenzie has a very high prey drive, my Brady who comes from conformation show lines has no prey drive.

I did notice that MacKenzie really did not become a golden that wanted to snuggle and act like a lap dog much later than Brady, not until she was two years old. I think before that, she just had better things she would rather do - is that why you are questioning her happiness? We don't hunt, but MacKenzie is the happiest dogI have ever met.

We do have pet ducks that we raised in our garage with the goldens. MacKenzie is actually afraid of them, keeps her distance while Brady wants to play with them, but MacKenzie will stalk and chase any bird that flies in our yard.

Do you have a Bass Pro Shop near you? We bought MacKenzie for Christmas this dog toy that is a bird, it has a place to put one finger and then you pull the tail and the bird goes flying in the air like a bow from an arrow would - she loved it until Brady chewed it up. I will be buying her a new one, and keeping it away from Brady.

They also have the cutest rubber squeaky ducks, we have a couple of them - they are really cheap. Brady carries his around very careful not to hurt it ( I think he thinks it is a real baby duck ), MacKenzie will squeak hers, and run around with it for very long periods of time. She wears herself out.

We also have a couple remote helicoptor toys that we will fly - the cheap ones from radio shack - and she has a blast chasing those while in the air. Jumping trying to get it etc. With some imagination, you can have them use their prey instinct without it actually being real ducks.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Any thing that squeaks, does not last long ,here, except the cuz, it has lasted.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I have seen you and Cambridge together. She did not seem unhappy at all. She is definitely a more field bred type of dog. They can have a lot of energy and drive. My highest drive golden was often tired out by exercising her brain. She thrived on training. She also used to playfully bite my first golden a lot... Then when golden #3 came along, the tables were turned!!! If she wantsq to hunt things, she can come to my house and catch mice!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Duplicate post


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

goldensrbest said:


> Any thing that squeaks, does not last long ,here, except the cuz, it has lasted.


The cuzes have been industructable in my house too. These last about a year, longer than most other squeakies. I try to keep multiples in the house, because she loves to bring them outside and then bring them back in. It is so much fun to watch her when she finds one of them outside, she gets so excited and brings them back to the house.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Sally's Mom said:


> I have seen you and Cambridge together. She did not seem unhappy at all. She is definitely a more field bred type of dog. They can have a lot of energy and drive. My highest drive golden was often tired out by exercising her brain. She thrived on training. She also used to playfully bite my first golden a lot... Then when golden #3 came along, the tables were turned!!! If she wantsq to hunt things, she can come to my house and catch mice!


 That is right, you did see her, thanks, hey,i may take you up on that,offer sometime, do you hunt?


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

cubbysan said:


> The cuzes have been industructable in my house too. These last about a year, longer than most other squeakies. I try to keep multiples in the house, because she loves to bring them outside and then bring them back in. It is so much fun to watch her when she finds one of them outside, she gets so excited and brings them back to the house.


 I WENT TO DOG.COM, they have little ruffcans, i think they are called, may order a few, for her .


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

No I do. Or hunt, but my Emmie who is the mouser in my house is fascinated by birds...


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

goldensrbest said:


> I WENT TO DOG.COM, they have little ruffcans, i think they are called, may order a few, for her .


I just went over the the website - yes, those are something MacKenzie would definitely love. MacKenzie also loves ( during the warmer weather ) having her cuzes in her kiddie swimming pool, and trying to get them out.


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

We meet up with a young red field girl and boy every once in a while, what firecrackers they are. Their owners do not hunt, the dogs are happy. You do not have to hunt to have a happy dog. Fiona loves to flush up ducks. It is fun for her and I let her do it.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

GoldenCamper said:


> You do not have to hunt to have a happy dog.


Very true. But whether you'll hunt your dog or not, train them. Once you've lived with a trained dog you won't ever want to live with one that isn't!

EvanG


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

EvanG said:


> Once you've lived with a trained dog you won't ever want to live with one that isn't!


That is true on so many levels....


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

I have never had unruley dogs and No I didnt get into training until just 5-6yrs ago. All of my dogs were well behaved. In my parts of the woods when I was growing up poeple didnt do anything with there dogs.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

General V said:


> I have never had unruley dogs and No I didnt get into training until just 5-6yrs ago. All of my dogs were well behaved. In my parts of the woods when I was growing up poeple didnt do anything with there dogs.


All of which means...? :--appalled:

I mean, is there a point there somewhere?

EvanG


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

EvanG said:


> Very true. But whether you'll hunt your dog or not, train them. Once you've lived with a trained dog you won't ever want to live with one that isn't!
> 
> EvanG


Yes, you said this and I dont think it is all that true. I have had many dogs that were not "trained". They were all good well behaved dogs.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

But I think there is a difference between a trained dog and a generally well behaved dog.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

By well behaved I mean I didnt train them but all had great re-call,I could take them any place and not worry about them running off off leash, would not jump out of the car unless asked, did not rush out doors, no counter surfing. Wlaked nice on leash or off leash. 

I never spent time training them like I do now. In fact I have done alot of "training" with Vednetta(apbt) and she is the more stubburn of my dogs.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

But didn't they have to be trained to do those things? They don't come naturally knowing how to do a recall or wait until told to jump out of a car or go out of a door. Those are all the result of training.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

General V said:


> Yes, you said this and I dont think it is all that true. I have had many dogs that were not "trained". They were all good well behaved dogs.


I don't believe this, General V. 

Dogs are not innately well-behaved. They need to be handled and trained - even if it is a very basic type of training that most people do on their own. Most people do not take their dogs to classes. Their dogs can be described as "well behaved" to a certain extent, because of that basic training. Based on the fact that you and your sister both are into dogs and training dogs and you trained very difficult dogs, I'm sure a lot of that didn't come out of nowhere. 

Where I agreed with Evan is that having done all the dog classes and training with my guy, he's a much easier keeper than our first golden (puppy class dropout) who received your average basic training (walk nice, come, stay, wait, sit, down, give paw, give, take it nice, etc). And it was the same with our Danny. 

When I'd bring Danny to company picnics, he never had to be on leash because of how gentle and calm he was despite all of the chaos of people, kids, and dogs around us. This came from the steady and frequent socialization he received through class and going after his CD. It definitely was not natural for him, because he was a very shy/skittish dog by nature.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

When I was growing up the town I lived in didnt have any type of dog training. I had no idea what dog training was until 6yrs ago. 

I have always talked to my dogs. I had never used words like "sit" or "down" with them. My mom was into rescues and we always had dogs in and out ofthe house. I think we only had one tie out and one leash during this time. I rember walking dogs off leash out to the car to take them to the vets or possibly their new home. The run along side and jump in the car no coaxing no treats. I dont think I ever bought a bag of treats until I moved down here and took my first class.

I dont know how to describe what we did with the dogs. They were there, we fed them and took them outside no games of fetch I do remeber my mo playing tug o war with Duboise when he was a puppy. My mom also didnt believe in giving dogs chew toys. She said it would make them want to chew on everything else...


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

For the sake of comparative scale, what are the accomplishments of the most highly trained dog you have owned? Have your dogs competed with others in any venue?

I ask because we may not be on the same page about what "well behaved is". There are dog rules and people rules, and they are NOT the same things.

EvanG


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

Well Evan I guess you are not reading me posts completely. I just told you the town I grew up in didnt have dog training. I dont remeber ever talking to anyone in town that even showed dogs in conformation. I have just gotten into dog training. The first dog we have competed with is my sisters lab Prada Brown in hunt test she has her UKC HRC started title. We started training her last spring and she was titled by sept. 
I am training my first dog now Jige is 8mos old and I hope to do a upland test in feb

My dog Mikado( APBT) had his CGC, TDI I went to a class and I was down right shocked that Mikado did what I asked. I had never done anythng him other having ride in the car with every place. We past the test on the first try were as not all the dogs in the class did. Like I said I talk to my dogs but not like most people talk to their dogs. I talk to them in long sentences like a human.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

General V said:


> Well Evan I guess you are not reading me posts completely. I just told you the town I grew up in didnt have dog training. I dont remeber ever talking to anyone in town that even showed dogs in conformation.


Okay. I'm not necessarily asking about the dogs you didn't train. I'm inquiring of the dogs you have provided the most training to, and how that yardstick might allow us to converse regarding what _you_ call a trained dog, and what _I_ call a trained dog. That then may translate into a more reasoned comparison of what each of us may regard as "well behaved".


General V said:


> I have just gotten into dog training.


Doesn't that alone encourage you to be more willing to learn, rather than to argue?


General V said:


> The first dog we have competed with is my sisters lab Prada Brown in hunt test she has her UKC HRC started title. We started training her last spring and she was titled by sept.
> I am training my first dog now Jige is 8mos old and I hope to do a upland test in feb


Good for you. Keep it up! I hope in doing so you looked in on some higher classes for better examples of more advanced dogs. The continuum from untrained to fully-trained is very broad. It doesn't stop at Finished/Master. It, indeed, goes far beyond that. I'm not suggesting any individual needs to go to that level. I _am_ suggesting that it will help to at least _see_ top performers in action to form a better informed opinion of what _is_ and what _isn't_ a well behaved dog.

My assertion of not wanting to live with a dog that isn't trained is based on a lifetime of owning dogs; trained _and_ untrained. No more untrained dogs for me; not because I didn't love the untrained ones, but rather because I now know solidly the difference between the two. Training several hundred of them will do that. Watching many of them at work in a demanding venue will surely help.

EvanG


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## Angelina (Aug 11, 2011)

I 'get' what General V is saying and not sure I understand the point of pressing him/her to define 'training'. I grew up with dogs and spent so much time with them they were so totally in tuned to me I only needed to give them a 'look' and they would behave. Example, no staring at the table while eating. I had no type of organized classes or training; I just wanted them to behave and so they did. May not have passed an obedience class but they were still better trained then most dogs I ran into. My first golden Rusty trotted next to my bike, stopped at every corner and waited for me to instruct him to cross. I don't even know how he learned but obviously I 'taught' him; I didn't 'train' him.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

Angelina I thank yo for your post. Yes you understand what I am talking about. I am not sure why these dogs behaved so well but sure was nice.


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