# Out of sight stays



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

From watching at shows the past 5 years that I've been going to certain shows to watch or train/socialize Jacks.... if he wasn't in fact entered.

The only breaks in stays that I've seen are dogs going down on the sit or sitting up... or following (or trying to) follow their owner out of the ring. 

From what I've seen, the judge and stewards are watching VERY closely for any indications the dog (or owner) needs to be retrieved.

Doesn't mean that bad things do not happen. I know a trainer and her dog (malamute) who was upset about something that happened which could have ended her dog's career. I think her dog was attacked? She was always very nervous about putting him in stays next to dogs who were not rock solid because of the repercussions. He wasn't injured, but mentally couldn't handle the stay line for a while.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

I have only seen a couple fights and only one that did any damage. As handlers I think most people in the "B" classes have dogs that are more stable. Most judges I show around are very good at watching the class closely and getting in there when needed. I would not show to a judge that sits down and does not watch the groups. The only attack I seen that was bad.. one dog went around the dog next to him to get to the Golden... While the golden healed from it's wounds the dogs carreer was over. he would not stay in the lineup and would run out every time. This dog was ranked in the top 25 and was a wonderful golden..


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

Titan1 said:


> ... While the golden healed from it's wounds the dogs carreer was over. he would not stay in the lineup and would run out every time. This dog was ranked in the top 25 and was a wonderful golden..


That must have been very upsetting and a terrible disappointment for the owner.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I was hesitant to add this, because it probably gives the wrong impression of the Open/Utility classes (like the good old boys club or something).... but something else to keep in mind is that unless you have bigger shows that draw more out of state people, you also have a lot of people entered in Open and Utility who either have trained together at the same clubs, or who have shown in the same trials every time. You know what the dogs are like, pretty much, before you put your dog out there in the ring with them.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

In a trial the dogs are supposed to be lined up in their competition order. Do they ever make adjustments in this in a trial?

We were at a novice show n' go last winter and the person judging asked me to have Zoe line up between a Doberman and another large breed who were making aggressive to each other while waiting to enter the ring. I said I really wasn't comfortable with that but someone with more experience agreed to do it and everything went ok. Would this ever be done in a trial?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

No, in a show the order is what it is. At least in the shows I've been to.
I have asked a ring steward, loudly as I was leaving the ring, to please watch the dog next to mine as I didn't like the way he was looking at my dog.
That said, the chances of your dog getting attacked in an obedience ring are much less than getting attacked walking down the street or at Petsmart, IMO.


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> That said, the chances of your dog getting attacked in an obedience ring are much less than getting attacked walking down the street or at Petsmart, IMO.


I agree, except when you know for sure a certain dog hates your dog, and you both show at the same trials. Hence, my reluctance when I had Raider out to show in open because of the out of sights.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

my4goldens said:


> I agree, except when you know for sure a certain dog hates your dog, and you both show at the same trials. Hence, my reluctance when I had Raider out to show in open because of the out of sights.


Then you either become sick or your dog does before stays and you asked to be excused.. It is one entry... 
Titan and I have done alot of stays over the years and there has only been one instance that it was more than verbal and the judge did not intercept. I am more worried going for a walk at home.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

And I know you are referring to the dog that attacked Tito as Tito walked past him....which resulted in the dog having a mouthful of Tito's butt feathers, and Tito diving under the nearest chair....




my4goldens said:


> I agree, except when you know for sure a certain dog hates your dog, and you both show at the same trials. Hence, my reluctance when I had Raider out to show in open because of the out of sights.


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> And I know you are referring to the dog that attacked Tito as Tito walked past him....which resulted in the dog having a mouthful of Tito's butt feathers, and Tito diving under the nearest chair....


You betcha. I think that dog is retired now. Sad part is its owner was such a wonderful person and a very good friend, and really did great with the dog, considering the breed, it just hated my dog with a passion.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Megora said:


> Doesn't mean that bad things do not happen. I know a trainer and her dog (malamute) who was upset about something that happened which could have ended her dog's career. I think her dog was attacked? She was always very nervous about putting him in stays next to dogs who were not rock solid because of the repercussions. He wasn't injured, but mentally couldn't handle the stay line for a while.


I know this same handler. Dog is an intact large male. An impressive dog, extremely well trained, not aggressive but I'm sure he could stand his ground. He was attack by a Golden Retriever. I know she still deals with the repercussions. Fortunately he doesn't have any issues with the breed. Just the stays. 

I know the out of sight stays is a big thing to me. It just takes once. I would like to at least see large classes broken into smaller groups. If something does break out in a large class it could get out of control too quickly. Obedience is no longer about quiet low key dogs. The top dogs have octane to spare and putting all that together in a ring....alone.... Is just trouble waiting to happen. 

I know it doesn't happen often, but I have heard of 3 bad stories in just a few years. One required surgery. It's about liability I would think. The AKC should think about their responsibilities. Make the test work better. After all in reality who leaves their dog out of sight, in a group of dogs that is not at trial. Isn't it derived from real life necessary "obedience"?

Ann



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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I thought it was a golden - I wasn't completely sure. She had him in the same classes as Jacks while fixing his stays and I remember how nervous she was. Even with Jacks who has zero interest in other dogs or people - she just didn't want any dogs popping up near her dog, especially goldens. 

I thought things cleaned up though? Or is she now focusing on her youngest?


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