# Limp Tail Syndrome



## Belle's Mom

I know nothing about this, but wanted to say I am so sorry Barkley is going thru this......hopefully he will soon have his wag back. I love the tail thumbing and fanning also.

OK - I hope this is not too stupid of a question, but what is spondylitis?

Thanks


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom

Anne, here's a thread that talks about limp tail http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=49648&highlight=limp+tail+syndrome Can be a result of even a bath. Seems like the meds he's already on should help with any pain, and most return to normal after a few days. If you do a search on limp tail syndrome, there are several other threads.


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## Dallas Gold

Betty: I looked through the threads but most indicate NSAIDS are the answer and that is obviously out for us since he's on a steroid. He hasn't had a bath for 2 weeks because of our fear of bumping up against his nose and aggravating a bleed. His anal sacs were expressed by the vet at his last chemo 10 days ago. As far as I know Toby hasn't been pulling his tail (I hope).

Belle's Mom: Spondylitis or spondylosis is a degenerative disc disease. http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/100702.htm&word=spondylosis
It is extremely painful for the dog. I think it is also called Wobblers Disease, probably because of the way a dog walks with it. Barkley's had a few episodes of this and it is usually treated with rest, rimadyl and tramadol.


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## boomers_dawn

Aww poor Barkley guy. 
Tramadol is a pain medication. This article pertains to people but it's the same Tramadol as for dogs. Article says it's an opioid analgesic (that means narcotic type). 
http://www.drugs.com/cons/tramadol.html

I looked this stuff up after a trip to the doggie E.R. last fall after a fishing trip and being completely unable to stand up the next day. Boomer had been playing in the cold stream chasing crawdads and salamanders for a couple hours. The E.R. vet diagnosed hip arthritis but Boomer had his hips xrayed and they came out "beautiful". So his regular vet wondered if he had a partial limp tail from playing in the cold water. 

Limp tail syndrome isn't completely understood but the best explanation I found when I was looking at the time was from this article which seems to have accompanying scientific research to go with it. 

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/limbertail-update704.html 

It explains a compartment syndrome where the cold or some damage causes lack of blood flow to the muscles, which then swell from the damage, and become compressed because the connective tissue around the muscles can't expand to accomodate the swelling. It doesn't sound like your Barkely was exposed to anything that would induce this so I wonder if it's related to some of his other problems. Although the article does mention cold, weather, and being confined to a crate for long periods, maybe is Barkley more inactive?

The Tramadol being a narcotic should keep him comfortable but I would talk to the vet about dose if he still appears to be in pain, and for quality of life if you think it's not doing anything, I would consult the vet about what to do next. 

Huggies to poor Barkley and poor you. Hope he feels better and wags again soon.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom

I was thinking along the same lines, that between the steroids and tramadol the pain should be taken care of. I know you aren't anxious for another vet visit, but you might want to call on Monday just to keep them aware of the situation. I just wonder what could be the cause.


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## lgnutah

Our vet called it cold water tail and/or limber tail. Brooks got it after a long run in the woods, jumping over fallen logs. His vet prescribed Tramadol for the pain. In about a week his tail was back to normal. This happened about 3 years ago and has never happened again.


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## BeauShel

Maybe until you talk to the vet, you can use a heating pad set on warm. Poor Barkley, I hope he feels better soon.


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## Hudson

Hudson has had limp tail twice, its so strange to see their tails hang when normally they srut and hold it hight. I took him to the vet and anti- infamitory meds worked well , he was back to normal in no time and holding is tail high . Hope Barkley is thumping his tail real soon and feeling well.


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## Dallas Gold

Yesterday evening Barkley's recurrent nosebleeds started up again, this time from the other (non-cauterized) nostril. The only thing we can do for them is to keep him calm so they stop on their own. Thankfully the chemo didn't destroy his ability to clot so they pretty much stopped after he ate breakfast this morning. Even putting his nose against the big bowl caused a bleed. His tail is still limp. After researching some more (thanks boomers dawn!) I placed a call to our veterinarian (they are open 7 days a week) and his onco vet is in today-though Sundays are one of their busiest days. I left a message about what is going on, why I do not want to bring him in and asked him to call back when he has a moment. I do not want to transport Barkley anywhere at this time for fear of aggravating the nose and worsening the tail. I've asked for a dosage increase of his tramadol for his tail and also to see if there is a possibility we can add back in an antihistamine to help him stop sneezing whenever he goes outside to take care of business. He's out there maybe one minute and comes back inside sneezing and snorting. The pollens are still unbelievable here and I think this is the cause of the recurrence of the bleeding. My only fear is adding more antihistamines might cause more bleeding--they do with me.

Poor Barkley, he just cannot catch a break.  He did really well with the intravenous chemo only to be knocked for a loop with this wicked spring pollen season and a limp tail! Hopefully by this evening we will have some increased tramadol and extra antihistamine in his arsenal of weapons. Despite it all he has a great appetite and he's very alert, even getting put out he's missing his walks!


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom

Darn it Anne, I'm so sorry Barkley is dealing with all this. I'm sure you'll feel better once you talk to the doc and get some direction. Thoughts and prayers continue for my favorite curly boy!


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## BajaOklahoma

Questions to ask:
Do they use Afrin nasal spray on dogs to stop nose bleeds? They do for people.

Is it possible to flush the nose out day with a saline rinse to remove the pollen? 
I not sure how it would work with a dog's anatomy, but theoretically it could help. The pollen causes the inside of the nose to swell, which stretches the lining of the nose, which put the veins closer to the surface and makes them more prone to bleed. Remove the pollen and decrease the swelling. It wouldn't be fun the first couple of times, but as he gets used to it......

What about having him wear a mask outside? After a day or so, he will expect to have it on to go outside.

Good luck.


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## hotel4dogs

oh no, poor Barkley. Tito's had dead tail twice. We use NSAIDS (which I know you can't use) but a heating pad and some massage right where the tail meets the rump might help him too.
I'm so sorry you're going thru this. I was hoping for better news....


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## GoldenCamper

I was really hoping Barkley was done with the nosebleeds, darn it all, and now this tail problem too  Hope he improves soon and can get away from going to the vets again.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom

Found this interesting article on limp tail. Thought it worth sharing. 
http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/limbertail-update704.html


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## Goldnbear

I know nothing about nosebleeds in dogs, but if Barkley has "cold tail" it usually is done in about 3-7 days. I would think the pain meds he is on currently would be enough to handle it. His wag will be back soon hopefully


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## Dallas Gold

I talked with the vet and updated him on Barkley's condition. Basically for the tail we are upping his tramadol by 1/2 tablet morning and evening so he will get 150 mg daily, for the next few days. If it improves no vet visit needed, if not, he's got to go in nosebleed or not, to have an anal growth check because this could be related to his anal growth. Let's hope not because we cannot do anything about the lump right now. 

He is no longer scratching from allergies but he is licking. I suspected this is related to the tail pain so hopefully that will stop soon. 

As far as the bleeds, I had already asked about something like canine nasonex and/or masks/neti pots--the answer was absolutely NOT! The goal for a bleed is to keep them calm and let them stop it on their own if at all possible, because if you do anything near the muzzle they will snort and sneeze and move and make the bleed worse. They want us to contain Barkley in a secure area where we won't mind blood being sprayed and splattered. Barkley will have none of it so our entire house is mostly covered in big canvas painters tarps (they work well and launder too!). For now, we are adding Benadryl to the Temeril-P and hope that it isn't too drying. It would really help if the wind would stop blowing like crazy outside and the pollens died down, but I fear that isn't going to happen.


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## Retrievers Rock

Chloe had this twice. The first time, she was very aggressive when I even got near her tail. She was in a lot of pain. Both times, I think the vet prescribed NSAIDS for her, and it went away on its own within a couple of days.

For us, it was the pool that did it.


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## Belle's Mom

So with the increased med - how is Barkley doing today? Get his wag back yet?


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## coppers-mom

I have been MIA and missed out on poor Barkley's problems.
I hope he is doing better today.


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## Karen519

*Barkley*

I am so very sorry for all that Barkley and you are going through!!

I am praying he is doing better today!


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## Dallas Gold

Karen519 said:


> I am so very sorry for all that Barkley and you are going through!!
> 
> I am praying he is doing better today!


Thank you, we need your prayers and good thoughts! Today he still has a limp tail, though it appears to be a little better. He is also still bleeding from the nose. Mornings are horrific for him. He's "medically grounded" meaning he doesn't get to go on his favorite walks anymore, and only gets to go in the backyard to take care of business. In the mornings the pollen is so high (4800 yesterday morning) that he comes in sneezing and snorting and wheezing. That's when the bleeds start up. By late afternoon they stop temporarily, if we keep him calm. I've talked with the vet who treated his bleed last week and she said to bring him in tomorrow morning if it's continuing and they can give him another epi injection in the nostril. I feel so sorry for him--tasting that blood must be so annoying to him. I'm sure his throat is raw from it draining down too.

He needed to go outside twice last night (midnight and 3:30). Despite his limp tail when he got back inside from the last visit he insisted on jumping on the bed and sharing a pillow with us! That's my Barkley so I'm so happy he still has some spunk!


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## Abbydabbydo

Oh Poor Barkley!

I'm not too worried about the cold tail, I had always been told it doesn't really hurt them. But I would think the Temeril-P would be working wonders on those allergies. How much Temeril-P are you giving? Maybe a little more of that would help the nosebleeds? So sorry you are going through this.


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## coppers-mom

I'm glad Barkley was showing some spunk, but so sorry he is having the nose bleeds and limp tail. I'll keep him in my thoughts and prayers.


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## maggie1951

Poor Barkley he has been throught it just later good thoughts and prayers coming your way.
And glad he still wanted to get on the bed with you


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## Belle's Mom

Figured I would check in for any update and hopeful progress on the nose bleeds and the limp tail.


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## Dallas Gold

Yesterday the vet diagnosed Barkley's limp tail as something more serious--a total cruciate ligament tear in his left hind leg. This was totally unexpected because Barkley's been on restricted activity due to the severe pollens. He hasn't done anything to warrant a total tear other than scratch from his allergies. Perhaps it just wore out over time, but we never had any indication of it until yesterday morning when he stopped putting weight on it and had trouble staying up. We are heartbroken for him because he just isn't a good surgical candidate at his age and with his immunity issues due to the cancer and splenectomy. He's in a cast bandage and in considerable pain right now. They are trying to find an additional pain med to add to his mix that doesn't interfere with the Temeril-P he needs to fight his allergies. He alternates between whimpering/crying and wanting to go outside to walk (which we won't let him do). His appetite is still very good and he does have his funny moments despite the pain. I have no clue how we are going to manage this long term so I'd appreciate good thoughts, prayers and karma being sent to Barkley and us as his caregivers. As of now we are not planning on starting oral chemotherapy with him. That makes me sad as well but he's got too much going on.


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## Retrievers Rock

Awwww, I'm so sorry. 

I'll be sending all the good thoughts, prayers, and karma I can muster.


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## Karen519

*Barkley*

Praying for Barkley and you!!


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## Belle's Mom

Anne - I am so sad to read this. Barkley has really been on my heart lately and I have praying for him. I have really been praying for a bit of good fortune to befall him, you, and DH. Please know that I will continue to pray for strength, wisdom, etc for all of you in this challenging and sad time.

Jennifer


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## GoldenCamper

So sorry to read of this news, Barkley can't seem to catch a break and my heart aches for all of you. Wish I could help but all I can do is send our good thoughts and prayers out to you guys and hope you can find moments of peace and joy in these trying times.


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## tippykayak

Jax had this a couple of weeks ago after a hard run and a cold swim. It improved after 24 hours and was gone in 48. I was glad to have read about "dead tail" before that or I would have been more scared.

From my personal experience it seemed like a cramp or strain in the tail muscles. He _could_ move it or raise it, but it seemed uncomfortable for him to do so, and he let it hang for most of the day.

It recovered just like a sprain would have. No biggie.


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## Dallas Gold

I wanted to update this thread for posterity and future searches--Barkley's limp tail was actually a total cruciate ligament tear. We were shocked by this diagnosis since he was walking fine at the time we noticed the limp tail. If a limp tail doesn't resolve in a short time, it's probably a good idea to have the vet check it out. It could be something much more serious.


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## hotel4dogs

Just to add my 2 cents worth...I think the key is whether or not you know what caused the limp tail to happen. 
If your dog has been dock diving and the next day has limp tail, I'd not be too worried. Or has been swimming, just had a bath, just ran a hard agility course, etc.
But in Barkley's case, there was really nothing that would have caused limp tail. I think that's when you really need to contact the vet, as Ann did, to see what is going on.
JMO of course.




Dallas Gold said:


> I wanted to update this thread for posterity and future searches--Barkley's limp tail was actually a total cruciate ligament tear. We were shocked by this diagnosis since he was walking fine at the time we noticed the limp tail. If a limp tail doesn't resolve in a short time, it's probably a good idea to have the vet check it out. It could be something much more serious.


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## Dallas Gold

hotel4dogs said:


> Just to add my 2 cents worth...I think the key is whether or not you know what caused the limp tail to happen.
> If your dog has been dock diving and the next day has limp tail, I'd not be too worried. Or has been swimming, just had a bath, just ran a hard agility course, etc.
> But in Barkley's case, there was really nothing that would have caused limp tail. I think that's when you really need to contact the vet, as Ann did, to see what is going on.
> JMO of course.


Thanks, that is a very good point. In our case Barkley was under home restriction and not getting his usual exercise. We assumed his tail went limp from sleeping on it too long. It was much worse than that.


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