# Squeaky toys are "no, no"?



## Serawyn (May 23, 2011)

Yesterday, our training instructor came by to do a private lesson. We went over food, rules, schedule, housebreaking, training, and toys. He looked at the toys we provided for our puppy and said only one was appropriate!!! Here we were thinking, yay, we're giving her everything possible, what good parents we are. NOPE!

We had: 
1. squeaky stuffed toys (7 total in various sizes, textures, crinkles, and sounds)
2. 3 kongs (bone, the genius, and ball)
3. antlers 
4. white bones (they're the hallow kinds that are not raw, but really hard)
5. tennis balls
6. rolled up old socks (this one I now realized is not a good idea. I thought it was okay to give her our old things, but yeah, totally choking hazard and will teach her to chew our things! Like the dog will know what's old and what's new.)
7. bully sticks 

So, can you guess which toy was the only good one????...........

.....................................Keep thinking................................

.......................................................................................

.......................................................................................

.......................................................................................

Ding, ding, ding, you're right, the kongs! Of all our toys, the only ones the instructor said he'd recommend is the Kong. He said squeaky toys are a big no no since they make noise similar to the sounds of an animal that is hurt. This will nurture our puppy's prey instinct as well as teach her that any squeaky, high pitch sound needs to be bitten and played with (i.e. our future baby). He also said antlers are too tough for puppy teeth and can damage the ones that are growing in. The white bones are also hard. Tennis balls unless used for playing fetch will teach the puppy to go after other balls in the house (children's toys, etc.). 

He suggested we take away all the toys we've bought (I'm thinking probably hundreds of dollars!) and going with things that are rubbery, shiny, and have a scent. That way the dog will identify her toys immediately and only chew those types of toys. Things like these below: 













[ame]http://www.amazon.com/West-Paw-Bumi-Dog-Toy/dp/B002JVUAM6/ref=pd_sim_k_7[/ame]



I thought that was a pretty interesting training session. It lasted 3 hours and he was there to watch us interact, train, play, and feed our puppy dinner. We've been watching a ton of Dog Whisperer shows and reading this forum so we thought we've gotten things down, but nope. Some of the things we're doing are not good and we can see now why she's so persistent! Next time we'll go on a walk. Can't wait to see/hear how we are with her on this!


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I've heard that theory before...

But honestly, if you are worried about nurturing your dog's prey instincts, you would not be giving your dog any toys to chew (antlers, bones) or anything for her to chase (balls, etc). 

The squeaky toys DO make a sound similar to a rabbit's scream upon being nabbed and retrieved. <- My first golden would retrieve live and running rabbits if we sent him. He'd bring them back alive and without any marks and delivered them to our feet. It would have been different if he had been used to playing with stuffed toys and shaking them and shredding them.

And the squeaky toys make similar sounds to the chipmunks and other assorted small rodent creatures that our cat snatches and throws around until they get boring and he breaks their necks and starts eating them. 

And yes, they make the same exact sounds that pet birds make all the time. So if you are afraid of your dog going after your birds because he thinks they are toys. I can see that.

So yes, if you are concerned about encouraging your dog to play with animals the way he plays with toys, I probably would avoid giving him squeaky toys to shake around and shred. I imagine this would be a concern for people who do hunt with their goldens. 

Babies sound quite a bit different, so I do not think your golden retriever will confuse a crying baby with the SQUEAK sound of a toy.


----------



## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

IMHO developing and harnessing prey instinct is the basis for a retrieve....


----------



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Personally, I gave up on Nylabones years ago, except for a very young puppy teething. Nylabones to me are not safe because I have seen them chewed into choke size pieces.

The squeaky noise and the sound of a baby - their is no correlation to that, my bridge dogs never even noticed when my babies cried or screached, etc, and the dogs were there before the babies.


----------



## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

Your trainer has a perspective that I have never heard before and don't agree with.
The only thing on the list that should never have been a toy was a rolled up sock.
My golden definitely knows the difference between a squeaky toy and a child. If dogs didn't know the difference they surely wouldn't be allowed to become service dogs and therapy dogs. My golden is a Delta Registered therapy dog and does work with children in hospitals and schools.

I didn't check all your links but I would under no circumstances give any dog a Nylabone because they are not safe. That is my perspective. Bones, antler, and bully sticks when supervised are much safer.

It would be interesting to hear what other training tips you got. Is your trainer registered with APDT or any certifying organization.


----------



## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

I too only see an issue with the sock. I don't like tennis balls because my dog picks the fuzz off and that annoys me. Instead, I've found a ball that he loves that is called a Bowser Ball. I used all of the same toys and never had an issue. I also don't allow free access to the toys. I am the keeper of the toys so my dog knows that I am fun and I am the start and stop of play. Nylabones and kongs are always accessible though.


----------



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Hi Serawyn,

I'm so interested to hear about the toys, I have quite a collection I've been accumulating for my next puppy and thought that I was doing pretty well. Maybe I need to ask a few of the training experts here for an udated 'sticky' list of the best puppy toys. There's nothing worse than spending too much money on a hi-tech toy and then have your dog refuse to play with it!

I noticed that you mentioned watching quite a bit of 'Dog Whisperer'. I was wondering if you have ever watched "It's me or the Dog" with Victoria Stilwell. Others may not agree with me, but I think she is fascinating and has so many common sense ideas on dog training. ALL non-confrontational and based on a lot of what is preached here, exercise and sensible management. Just thought if you like watching dog t.v. (I really do too!) that you would enjoy her. She's so good. You can also find clips featuring her on the animal planet website.


----------



## DaisyGolden (Jan 4, 2008)

Okay here is my two cents. I am by no means a dog expert. There are people on this forum that know much more than i ever will but I have had no less than ten dogs in my lifetime so I will tell you what I think. Everything on your list other than the socks is fine. I would make sure that your puppy doesn't tear apart the stuffed toys and if that happens only play with them when you're there. Every dog has a prey drive i really don't think it was put in their heads by squeaky toys. My golden Daisy loved squeaky toys and would play with them all the time. When our cat had kittens she would let them climb all over her and she was very gentle with them even though she had only been around adult cats before that. If her toys had made her prey drive stronger I don't think she would be so sweet with tiny four week old kittens. All of my dogs have had every toy on your list with no problems. If you are planning to have children in the future the best thing you can do is take your puppy places where he can be around children and babies now. Socialization is the best thing for that. If you ever plan on having a cat make sure your puppy meets some cats and learns how to be nice to them. Some people have asked me how do your dogs and cats get along so well? The answer is because they have been around them since the begining. I think the most important thing for a puppy isn't what toys they play with it's seeing new things and meeting new people all the time. Also I would be shocked if a golden retriever didn't go after a childs ball even if he didn't have tennis balls of his own. Sorry this post is long. You puppy is very cute by the way.


----------



## Serawyn (May 23, 2011)

Hi everyone, I really appreciate all your responses! You all shared great perspectives and I can see where everyone is coming from. To be honest, I was a bit surprised when the instructor said no squeaky toys. I wonder if it could be because we also have a bunny at home (sorry, I neglected to include that part). As for squeaky toys sounding like babies, I agree, I don't see the correlation at all. 

The instructor is registered and very well known in my area. He's been training and rescuing dogs for over 30 years. He actually opened up his training and boarding facility since he was 19 years old! He loves dogs! 

I think with everything, it's a balance. Not everyone will agree and not every technique will work. It's helpful to watch the shows like Dog Whisper or It's me of the Dog (thanks for the recommendation, Nolefan!), read this forum, and get trained. My husband and I both saw a lot of overlaps and new suggestions. Though some of the suggestions were great, some like the squeaky toys were not as agreeable. I can see why we shouldn't give her antlers yet since she hasn't lose any puppy teeth and those things are HARD! Whenever she's eating and chewing these toys, I am always there to supervise.  

Interesting note about nylon bones. I wonder why they are bad? They look similar to the kongs to me (made from a durable plastic). We don't give Ellie any bones that seem brittle. Only very hard ones or the nylon bones. 

I think someone suggested already but a new list of toys for puppies with pictures and links might be helpful! Before spending another $200-300 on dog toys and treats, maybe a list would be helpful!


----------



## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

The problem with Nylabones is that they're meant to be chewed (unlike the Kong) and if you get one that isn't the right chewing strength for your dog, your dog could have pieces come off that cause obstructions or get imbedded in their stomach/intestines. I have one for "power chewers" and Enzo does fine with it. His littermate, Ryu, can't have Nylabones because he's more of a chewer than Enzo and it's a hazard for him. Also, Nylabones are made of a harder nylon material, while Kongs are made of more of a durable rubber. The two are very different, but Enzo has both. Personally, I also don't buy bully sticks, but that's because they gave Enzo an upset stomach and it was too much money to spend for the 5 minutes that it took him to eat it. I also don't buy tennis balls because Enzo just pulls the fuzz off and chews them up. He doesn't understand that he's supposed to go fetch the ball. We actually buy him squeaky balls instead. We got him his first antler when he was about 4 months old and he's never had any problems with his teeth. I really don't think antlers are an issue...


----------



## GinnyinPA (Oct 31, 2010)

With the Nylabones, I think it depends on the dog. Ben chews them, but doesn't destroy them. We replace them every couple of months when they get ragged, before they start coming apart. Same with the marrow bones. 

Squeeker toys can be a great motivator for training as they do attract the dog's interest. You do have to be careful that he doesn't swallow the squeeker though, so supervision is key.

Prey drive is a normal instinctual part of being a dog. I'm not sure why you would want to eradicate it. Most dogs love chasing balls and other toys. as well as squirrels and chipmunks and, yes, rabbits. I'ts natural and normal. I really don't see that that is a bad thing, unless you want to have your rabbit and puppy out in the yard together. 

We did have the problem with Ben eating fuzz off the tennis balls, so he doesn't get those, but our other dogs loved playing chase with regular tennis balls. Again, it depends on the dog.

We used knotted socks with one of our dogs as an alternative to tennis balls. She would bounce the ball off her nose and it did some damage to things on high shelves, plus my mother got tired of washing the soggy ball spots off the walls. But our dogs weren't big chewers. I wouldn't do it with the dog we have now, because he has already shown that he likes to chew clothes and it isn't fair to say "You can play with this sock but not the other one."


----------



## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

I have to put my two cents in wrt to training. If the only view is the Dog Whisper and that is how a trainer is training a puppy then any owner is missing out on other techniques that are way more positive. The Dog Whisper is probably the last way or not even a way I would train a dog. I agree with others who have suggested Victoria Stillwell's show.
I would also suggest reading Ian Dunbar books and viewing his online videos.


----------



## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

We worked with a training group that said no stuffed toys, no tennis balls, no tug toys.... we did all that an Belle's spirit was killed. Not saying that will happen to you. I have a TON of respect for this training group, they worked with assertive aggressive dogs, and did very well with them. However Belle was neither, and I didn't know enough to 'modify' for my own needs. We followed their training to the letter. Understandably they could not modify for us because it would not have been fair to others. I did modify for later dogs, we have stuffies, we have and play tug, and we have balls. BUT my dogs got them at the appropriate times in their training and behavior. 

Good luck. I bet it is a good program, however just watch it is not "too" much for your dog. We worked Belle for 2 years with them. Her nickname was Eeyore. I should have known. That is why now I can not do anything with Belle that resembles obedience. She still rebels on sit and down commands.


----------



## Adriennelane (Feb 13, 2008)

Here's my take on Nylabones. Like everyone says, it depends on how much of a chewer your dog is. Now, my girls live to chew on the Durable Nylabones. I bought them the Rhino bones once, and won't again, because Dory eventually bit off a piece of it. Thankfully she always spits out what she bites off, unlike her sister.

As to balls, we don't get regular tennis balls, and we threw away all of our ChuckIt balls, because Lucy has a tendency to try and sneak more than one in her mouth and has almost choked to death a couple of times when one lodged in her through. We get the large Kong squeaky balls, and only use them occasionally.

We love Jolly balls, and so do the girls. We've also learned to restrict their access to them, because Dory plays better when there's nothing else to have in her mouth.


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I've been doing this for a million years and even since I am so obviously a terrible "pet parent", my dogs have been just fine, thanks.
I DO allow Nylabones, have never had a problem with them (ours get the huge "knobby" sort) and like to chew on them. Even my really super strong chewers never break them. I pitch them when I think they have too sharp ends on them from the chewing. Raw bones are the best option, and I don't feed antler or bully sticks (or other "parts" that have been sitting around in a warehouse).
My dogs don't get tennis balls because they are so abrasive and wear the teeth. Socks? No. Just because.
Squeeky toys ABSOLUTELY.


----------



## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

I tried Kong's with Sam but he never cared for them and Ike doesn't either. Nylabones, Sam could destroy in a few days so I stopped buying them. Maybe the ones made today are stronger. I've never bought one for Ike, so maybe I will now. Squeaky toys were always a big hit too. Sam destroyed them while Ike guts them and keeps the pelts around. The squeak was fun while it lasted, though it didn't seem to be the reason they cared for the stuffy so much. I think if I took Ike's stuffies away from him, he'd be one sad pupper.


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Hmmm. I'd keep them all but the socks.

I encourage my students to introduce a variety of toys. You want them to experience different sights, sounds, smells, textures, etc.

HOWEVER ... if you have a baby (or plan to have one) then there is value in picking dog toys that do look distinctly different from human baby toys. I do recommend lots of Nylabones, Kongs, hollow bones (the white ones), etc. in houses with kids and suggest owners stay away from stuffed toys b/c baby will have so many and it's just harder for the dog to know the difference between "his" and the baby's .... especially when they all end up on the floor.

As far as damaging teeth ... I've never had that happen with hollow bones. I haven't used antlers. I suppose it's possible but honestly, with most puppies, people are so thankful to have the pup chew a bone vs. a coffee table, they don't really care WHAT kind of bone it is!


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

As far as tennis balls being safe or not - I think it really depends on how OCD your dog is about them. We have a kong squeaky ball (I guess that makes the ball 1/3 OK with that instructor, 2/3 bad) that he worships. But it's mainly for retrieving and carrying around. He doesn't chew on the ball or shred the cover off. 

My guy does chew on rawhide bones and zukes dental bones.... but even there he's not really a heavy chewer. 

Nylabones - I don't like them because the dogs don't like them until they figure out they can chew little pieces off of them. Jacks had a hambone thingy that was supposed to be unbreakable, and he gnawed a good portion of that bone off. Fortunately he left the pieces in the rug (fun to step on if you are barefoot) instead of eating them, but I imagine that could have happened. Pieces of rawhide that the dogs swallow are soft and digestible. Pieces of nylabone are hard plastic and can definitely cause damage on their way through the sytem.


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Well, I don't agree with your trainer about the toys, but like you said, balance. My dogs have zero interest in Kong or Nylabone toys or chews. I hope your pup will like them.


----------



## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

I don't think your trainer would like to see Gunner's inventory. I disagree with him about 90%. But I want that prey drive which I will channel. I encourage it.


----------



## DaisyGolden (Jan 4, 2008)

I started another thread titled best toys for goldens for everyone to post what their favorite toys are and give new dog owners and even seasoned dog owners some ideas of toys to get for their dogs.


----------



## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

I have 4 kongs stuffed and in the freezer at all times. Keep Jaro quiet for some time. I love all the things from WestPaw Design, the tux and bumi on your trainer's list. I do like antlers, well Jaro likes them, because he does chew on them, not so much the others. He has some squeeky toys but I really have to supervise him with them. He can destroy a tuffy rated 9 in half a day. Raw bones are the best, but not too often. I know some think the bones and antlers are bad for teeth, but he is still young, (16 months) and chews a lot and the bones and antlers don't break and get in his tummy. Give me a broken tooth over an obstruction any day.


----------



## Serawyn (May 23, 2011)

DaisyGolden, Thanks! I'll be sure to take a look at the list!


----------



## mfreib1 (Apr 8, 2011)

Pointgold said:


> My dogs don't get tennis balls because they are so abrasive and wear the teeth. Socks? No. Just because.
> Squeeky toys ABSOLUTELY.


Tennis Balls abrasive? Am I missing something?


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

mfreib1 said:


> Tennis Balls abrasive? Am I missing something?


Yes. The material is abrasive, and especially when dirty with sand/dirt, etc. If you have a dog that actually chews them as opposed to simply fetching them up and returning to you, they can wear down the incisors. My old CH Nitelite's High Top Tennies CD was obsessed with them and did indeed wear his teeth down. So did a GSD that I had.


----------



## mfreib1 (Apr 8, 2011)

I guess I'll respectfully disagree with you on this one. When sand and dirt is on it I can understand that the particles of sand can be abrasive. HOWEVER.....your not getting me to buy the fact that the soft felt on the outside of the tennis ball is "abrasive".


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

mfreib1 said:


> I guess I'll respectfully disagree with you on this one. When sand and dirt is on it I can understand that the particles of sand can be abrasive. HOWEVER.....your not getting me to buy the fact that the soft felt on the outside of the tennis ball is "abrasive".


And I've no need to "sell" it to you. I've seen it myself, and there are plenty of AVDC's who have, as well. Tony Woodward, for one. Dogs who chew t-balls compulsively, sand or not, wear down their incisors.

Have a nice evening.


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

As for balls, we use the red Kong Balls. I think at last count there are 10 of them around here. They last forever, and we don't have to worry about the dogs chewing them. Tennis balls, in addition to to issue of wearing down the teeth, can be chewed into pieces if you have a dog so inclined to chew. I'd be concerned about the possibility of blockage particularly with smaller dogs, not to mention choking.


----------



## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

American Veterinary Dental Society:
"Dogs that chew on tennis balls or other abrasive toys (think of tennis ball as a scoring pad), will often wear their smaller front cheek teeth (premolars), and the back aspect of the canines."

I think the most relevant words here are "chewing" and "compulsive".


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

coppers-mom said:


> American Veterinary Dental Society:
> "Dogs that chew on tennis balls or other abrasive toys (think of tennis ball as a scoring pad), will often wear their smaller front cheek teeth (premolars), and the back aspect of the canines."
> 
> I think the most relevant words here are "chewing" and "compulsive".


 
Perhaps, but in our case, Mikey was obsessed with t-balls but did not chew them. He simply carried them around all the time, and would fetch them up for hours.
Prior to Mikey, I had a mixed breed dog whose teeth wore down and we never equated it to t-balls, but Banjo also loved them, and did chew them after a while.


----------



## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

My seven year old dog damaged his teeth enamel from excessive tennis ball mouth. If one is available he carries it everywhere, even bed. After learning of the damage his beloved balls are put away for supervised play time, even the ones he finds abandoned on the streets that he picks up on our walks.


----------



## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

As for the tennis balls, isn't it also something to do with the adhesive that holds the fuzz on? Didn't that add to the abrasiveness? Missy's a tennis ball chewer, so we can't have them in the house anymore. 

As for toys... we have so many... stuffies, skinees, rubber balls, kong balls, Nylabones (they LOVE to chew them and we've never had a problem, knock on wood.) They love squeaky toys and I love watching them play with the squeaky toys... they seem to be very proud of themselves when they find the squeaking part of the toy. 

As for the increased prey drive... Mojo doesn't really seem to care. We've had bunnies in our back yard and he'll just look at them. Same with my dad's chickens.

Missy, on the other hand, looooooves furry and feathery creatures. I doubt taking the squeaky toys away would dull her reactions to them. If she happens to catch a bunny in our backyard one day, well... good for her, I guess. It's nature. I'm sure she'd be proud as punch lol.


----------



## MillysMom (Nov 5, 2008)

mfreib1 said:


> Tennis Balls abrasive? Am I missing something?


For this reason Kong makes a line of "tennis balls" that do not have the abrasive material. Very interesting to read about them on their website. 

I use regular tennis balls, but only supervised for fetch/playtime. They aren't allowed to have them on their own.


----------



## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Our Gunner's teeth were starting to wear down, too. He was really an obsessive 'chomper' and we had no idea that tennis balls were abrasive. The wear happened so gradually that by the time we realized what was happening, the damage had already begun. I think those "fire hose" toys are fairly abrasive, as well.

I've heard the theory about squeaky toys and prey drive, but honestly I think it has more to do with the dog than the kind of toys he's been allowed to play with. Riley has played with squeaky toys his whole life and he has no prey drive at all. I mean, zero. A squirrell can jump down off the bird feeder three feet away from him and he just looks at it. Not once has he ever chased one. Same with bunnies, stray cats, etc.


----------



## Feldenak (May 8, 2011)

We have squeak toys for Isabel and she's on her best behavior around small children (we have a niece & a nephew both under 6 months old). We've also got Kong Wubbas (squeak & non-squeak versions), Nylabone, bully sticks, beef trachea, marrow/soup bones, rope tugs, tennis balls, chuck-it balls, and various other chewable toys. The only thing we don't do is anything that resembles clothing. Izzy still loves socks and probably always will, her Halloween costume will be a masked "Sock Bandit".


----------

