# Show Grooming A Golden How To?



## MaddieMagoo

Well now that you guys have been on the topic. I'm hooked! So how do you exactly "show groom" a Golden Retriever. What I do with Maddie is pet groom her. I do thin out her ear fluff because it gets to be a mess when I'm switching collars.

Some of you that are part of this forum show your dogs in Conformation. I would like to know more. I've only been exposed to pet grooming and nothign more.

Is there a website you recommend to me?

Thanks!


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## GldLoverCarly

*Altering???*

Yes, I am very interested as well. I was reading and it said you can be disqualified for altering the way you dog appears??? What does that mean exactly how do you illegally alter the appearence??? 
Carly


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## foreveramber

i have tried posting threads about this...i surprisingly, didnt get many replies.

i also am curious about this, and also was curious what kind of coat shampoo, conditioner, products, etc. do you use, to get their coat looking like those beautiful show goldens?

no one seems to know......


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## foreveramber

GldLoverCarly said:


> Yes, I am very interested as well. I was reading and it said you can be disqualified for altering the way you dog appears??? What does that mean exactly how do you illegally alter the appearence???
> Carly


 
i have only heard one thing about this...not sure if its true or not, but actually coloring the coat, to cover up white, or grey areas on the face..show dogs arent supposed to have any grey. also, i believe they have to have a black nose...?? some have pink noses. so i assume its things like that, that you cant try to "cover up"


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## Ninde'Gold

I made a post somewhere about show grooming. it's not much different then regular grooming with Goldens.

Unlike most grooming, Goldens are one of the few breeds where you don't want to take a whole lot of fur off.

Pretty much just tidying up the ears, pants, skirt, flagging the tails and legs.

For a flatter coat, I've seen show people putting damp towels over their backs to keep the fur from curling up.

There's also lots of coat sprays to give extra shin and such.


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## gold'nchocolate

Here you go, give this site a try. I'll see what else I have saved in my favorites.

Potomac Valley Golden Retriever Club

Morningsage Goldens Grooming

Golden Retriever, how to groom, Step 1

Kristil Golden Retrievers

BORDER COLLIE AND GOLDEN RETRIEVER GROOMING, HOW TO GROOM A GOLDEN RETRIEVER, HOW TO GROOM A BORDER COLLE, GOLDEN RETRIEVER COAT CARE, CARING FOR A BORDER COLLIES COAT, TRIMMING A GOLDEN RETRIEVER, HOW TO TRIM A BORDER COLLE, DOG GROOMING, GROOMING D

Now all I need to do is go back and read these myself. I really want to learn how to do this. Does anyone recommend a favorite brand of grooming scissors???? I bought a pair at Petsmart once and they cut awful!


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## GldLoverCarly

Thanks for the links! You have some pretty good ones on hand. I am still wondering about the illegal tampering they do with grooming and such??? 
Carly


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## AquaClaraCanines

Practice practice  Got any friends or neighbors with a Golden pet?

Sabrina is getting hers soon. Last night I bathed her and did her front paws quickly and the tail bc that's so easy. She will get a proper grooming in a few days when she feels better.


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## GldLoverCarly

Yeah could you imagine that??? By the way could I groom you dog I can't promise I would not butcher him. 

I have heard and read lots of post saying how expensive it is to show dogs in the US. So with all the things included would some of you mind sharing what 1 weekend would cost. With grooming, handling, entries, expenses for the handler, etc. Also some people let the handler keep the dog for a month at a time right??? What would that normally cost with a resonably good handler with board and a few weekends of shows?? If you don't mind sharing??
Carly


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## Tahnee GR

The DVD that Deb Oster has is wonderful!

And you would be surprised at the amount of hair trimmed, clipped and combed out of a Golden in show coat! And all without leaving the dog looking "sculpted"! Of course, my line is known for having a ton of coat.


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## vrocco1

GldLoverCarly said:


> I have heard and read lots of post saying how expensive it is to show dogs in the US. So with all the things included would some of you mind sharing what 1 weekend would cost. With grooming, handling, entries, expenses for the handler, etc. Also some people let the handler keep the dog for a month at a time right??? What would that normally cost with a resonably good handler with board and a few weekends of shows?? If you don't mind sharing??
> Carly


Most handlers here in the US get around seventy US dollars for a regular show, and a hundred to one hundred and twenty-five for a specialty show. The owner then normally pays the handler's travel and lodging expenses. If the handler has multiple dogs, then all of the owners split the expenses. The entry fee for a show is around twenty=five dollars.

Most, but not all chandlers harge for boarding the dogs also. It varies, but is usually $5-$15 per day. My boy Jesse was gone several times for two or three months. One time he went clear out to Kansas City to show at the National.

I'm sure that things are much different in Canada. Generally, you don't need as many wins for a Canadian Championship.


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## Sit Happens

GldLoverCarly said:


> Yeah could you imagine that??? By the way could I groom you dog I can't promise I would not butcher him.
> 
> I have heard and read lots of post saying how expensive it is to show dogs in the US. So with all the things included would some of you mind sharing what 1 weekend would cost. With grooming, handling, entries, expenses for the handler, etc. Also some people let the handler keep the dog for a month at a time right??? What would that normally cost with a resonably good handler with board and a few weekends of shows?? If you don't mind sharing??
> Carly


I can't speak for GR handlers, b/c my main breed is GSDs. Most handlers charge $75 - $150 per show just for handling (some apprentice handlers will take a dog in for $50 or a bit more). Specialties are considerably more expensive...and the National, well, forget it, most people couldn't possibly afford it (I'm talking thousands of dollars to show a Special, not to mention the bonus for those who win).

Some handlers charge as much as $1500 per weekend (I'm talking really BIG names, here). Of course, the serious clients want their dogs to stay with the handler and be trained and conditioned (road worked and/or treadmilled), which also costs more money (generally $300 - $500 a month, usually about $350/$400, but that includes board and care). To finish a GSD generally costs $5,000 - $10,000, depending on how "good" the dog is. I have these figures straight from the horse's mouth. That's not including the purchase price of the dog, of course. (And that's hoping the dog doesn't die. I personally know a woman who paid $5,000 for a show dog, spent that much or more to finish him -- and he finished pretty quickly -- and the dog died of bloat shortly after. She didn't even get any puppies by him before he died. Not to mention the fact that she was devastated by his loss because she truly did love the dog.)

Again, I'm not sure about GRs, but figure it would be generally about the same since both are very competitive breeds. And, of course, just because a dog is finished doesn't mean he/she is actually a good dog. : One of the dogs I have been showing lately is EIGHT years old (he doesn't look his age, and I've won with him over Specials), when he won at the last show under a GSD specialist, the judge asked me, "WHY isn't this dog FINISHED?" Well, the answer is money. The owner hasn't had the money/"pull" to get the majors (even if you have the money, it's hard to get a big name handler at the major shows b/c they are already committed to other clients' dogs). No, not all judges are political...but it's very hard to get majors without a "major face" on the dog.

On the more amusing side, you will sometimes hear handlers talk about "gas dogs," meaning dogs they take to help pay expenses (i.e. gas/travel expenses), knowing they will never finish.

Gotta love the dog show world. I know I do.  (Mostly, I just love my puppers...dog shows or not.)


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## GldLoverCarly

Oh my gosh!! I really appreciate your straight fowardness Sit Happens and the rest of you for your input. So in Golden Retrievers who are the "big handlers". So when you say you need a big face on the end of the leash I am assuming it would be extremly hard for a novice person who owned the dog to put and US championship on it??? If a Canadian had a dog they may want to show in US how would they know if that was possible or do they just know??? Also you were saying it could cost $1500 a weekend what can possibly add up to that amount??? I'm sorry for all the questions but I am really interested in this.
Carly


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## AquaClaraCanines

Gas, entries, food, hotels, ringside pick up for the handler... the handler will cost MORE if you want him to groom the dog for you.


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## Sit Happens

GldLoverCarly said:


> Oh my gosh!! I really appreciate your straight fowardness Sit Happens and the rest of you for your input. So in Golden Retrievers who are the "big handlers". So when you say you need a big face on the end of the leash I am assuming it would be extremly hard for a novice person who owned the dog to put and US championship on it??? If a Canadian had a dog they may want to show in US how would they know if that was possible or do they just know??? Also you were saying it could cost $1500 a weekend what can possibly add up to that amount??? I'm sorry for all the questions but I am really interested in this.
> Carly


Like I said, I don't know anything about the Golden world, so I can only give you my experience with other breeds. I think a newbie could probably get some singles on a GR (assuming you have a really AMAZING dog, and learn how to present and groom him correctly). And as ACC mentioned, if you are going to opt to show the dog yourself, the expenses are going to pile up. A show weekend can average $500 (usually $300 - $600), just for entries, gas, hotels, food, etc depending on how far away it is. It's simply more cost effective to hire a handler because you will be splitting all those expenses with the handler's other clients.

You gotta have deep pockets and a lot of perseverance. Certain breeds are just insanely competitive. If someone is really serious about getting into showing as an owner/handler and isn't independently wealthy, I sure wouldn't recommend a GR (or a GSD, lol). I think a lot of newbies get into showing and get discouraged when they don't win and then blame it on dog shows being political. The fact is that the big handlers will usually have the better dogs (not always, but usually), know how to present them to perfection and know which judges are going to like which of their client's dogs the best. There is a reason they make the big bucks! 

If you are serious about showing, the best thing to do is find a mentor (someone who has had years of success), in the breed you want to show and learn from them before you ever try to buy a show prospect.


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## AquaClaraCanines

If you want to show an easier breed, consider a flat coated retriever. Similar to live with, but not hard at all to finish owner handled.

Like with Whippets, a hard breed, I have considered getting an AKC Greyhound as it's a similar breed but not a handler/politics breed with high entries like Whippets are. 

Be aware, though, that in the rare breeds, there are often not enough dogs entered to make points- an equally frustrating problem!


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## thegoldenjoyride

CreekviewGoldens said:


> So how do you exactly "show groom" a Golden Retriever. What I do with Maddie is pet groom her. I do thin out her ear fluff because it gets to be a mess when I'm switching collars.





foreveramber said:


> what kind of coat shampoo, conditioner, products, etc. do you use, to get their coat looking like those beautiful show goldens?





GoldenLover84 said:


> Pretty much just tidying up the ears, pants, skirt, flagging the tails and legs.
> There's also lots of coat sprays to give extra shin and such.


If it is okay, can we have a list started to make sure that our golden retrievers are groomed properly (i.e. “show groomed” -- even if we don’t show)? This includes what needs to be thinned/trimmed… Which products you recommend (scissors/shampoo/conditioner), etc… 

So,

1.	Tidy up the ears
2.	Tidy up the pants/skirts
3.	Flag the tails and legs --- OKAY, what does this mean?
4.	Trim/cut the nails
5.	Tidy up the feet/paws, etc..

-	Brush teeth 

QUESTION: How do we tidy up the chest?

And shampoo/conditioner you recommend:

1.	???
2.	???, etc.

Thanks!


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## AquaClaraCanines

IMO do not ever touch the pants, skirt, or leg feathers, except the pasterns. I don't even on show dogs- and certainly not on a pet. You can just screw it up BAD!

Ears are hard to do right, too... have someone show you!

The tail is very easy...

DO NOT TRIM the chest or throat. The UK method of GR show grooming is not correct and goes directly against the standard, which calls for a natural look and outline.


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## moverking

Well, I thought I'd be able to tackle the rear leg/butt feathers....:doh:
Sadie & Loocie got into a patch of the BIG cockleburs and I _thought_ I had them all brushed out. Went to work and when I came home, it was a situation similar to a couple of kids giving each other haircuts. _They chewed each others burrs out._
Loocies feathers are loooong, below her hocks....now they looked like someone chewed holes in them. Sadies are bushy but also had some holes. 
So I got the scissors....NOT the thinning scissors.... 2nd:doh: 
I won't even show you pics. I was appalled what a couple of incorrect snips did. 
I did manage to almost fix it by using the thinning scissors only....they are far more forgiving than straight edge scissors.

I do ears and tails pretty well, if I do say so myself:
But I hope I never have to manicure butt feathers again.


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## AquaClaraCanines

NO NO NO don't ever trim butt feathers LOL  There is a lovely tool for breaking out burrs and mats without cutting.


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## moverking

AquaClaraCanines said:


> NO NO NO don't ever trim butt feathers LOL  There is a lovely tool for breaking out burrs and mats without cutting.


No, I can get the burrs out fine, I just missed 2 on each girl...and no mats, _they_ chewed each others out, plus lotsa hair. So they looked like unkempt street dogs that no one loved with ratty asses, LOL.
I couldn't help myself.....:uhoh:


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## Ash

Hi There,

No no no no NO trimming of anything but - hawks, ears, feet, whiskers, underneath in the pads. Only if your dog has crazy crazy coat trim the tail and front leg feathering other then that no trimming on show Goldens. Now thinning is a diffrent story lots of people will thin out pets. We do thin or strip show dogs on the neck area if it gets to bulky and by the throat again if it is to bulky but usually the more the better but sometimes less is more if that makes any sense at all. Try a furminator comb they work wonders for prevention of matts and too much coat. They are a little costly but worth evey penny for how good they really are. 

Ash


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## AquaClaraCanines

Well trim the tail... the end of it...


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## Gwen

*We're Newbies to the Conformation World*

We will be entering the conformation world this weekend in Belleville, Ontario with Nygel (a jr puppy @ 6.5 months old) for a 3 day show. As Nygel is co-owned with the breeder, we have been discussing his show plans for a while & were advised to get a handler. Our breeder recommended a certain handler who "specializes" in goldens, gets results and is wonderful with the "four legged kids". That is especially important to me as we have a family function requiring us to be away on Saturday & Sunday & Nyg will be staying with the handler. So, I will be taking Nyg to Belleville on Friday morning & then hitting the stands to watch (out of sight). That will be the hardest part - handing my baby over for the weekend. 

As far as cost, I was presently surprised at the cost for the weekend - hey, I might not be saying that at a later date. But, in the handler's defense, both my husband & I work hard, earn a good living and the handler deserves the same. It's not something everyone can do (I definitely couldn't do it on a single income especially with travelling for weekly training and obedience trails) but we're going to give it a try. We do have a beautiful boy who (in our opinion) has the best attributes of a golden retriever - physical & mental! 

(I've been reading about how easy it is to get a Canadian Championship. Well, our welcome to the Canadian conformation world DOES have plenty of competition - all of the trials have a minimum of 18 Goldens registered. I definitely wouldn't way that is easy!)


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## Pointgold

Show grooming a Golden is an art. While many here are saying don't touch this, don't touch that, trim this, trim that, the reality is that showing Goldens is _extremely _competitive, and if you do not groom well, you will not be looked at. Period. And Goldens, contrary to the "shown naturally without anything but tidying" credo, is one of the most precisely groomed breeds out there. Good grooming is not apparent. A well-groomed Golden does not look sculpted. And a good groomer, with a good eye, knows that no two dogs are groomed the same. Good grooming accentuates the strengths of a dog, and minimizes the weak points. And, to do this requires the proper equipment. And the right equipment to do the job perfectly is not inexpensive. I started, a million years ago, with thinning shears that cost approx $40. A big $$ outlay for me at the time. Then, a mentor let me use thinners that I am convinced you could let a two-year old child use and they would leave no cut marks. $120.00 (15 years ago) Good straight scissors $90.00. A great comb (yes, it makes a difference) $20.00. A good pin brush $15.00. A Mason Pearson boar bristle brush (I NEVER thought I needed one until I USED one) $75.00. Assorted strippers and thinners (different grades - fine, medium, coarse - depending on the particular need...) $10-25 each, x however many... Dryer - everyone has their favorite. I have two - one Challengaire $170.00 which remains in my kennel, and my Kool-Dry, $350.00 which I don't leave home without. Add the assorted shampoos, lotions, mousses, spray, sna magic potions (different ones for different coats, or different phases of coats) and that adds up easily to a couple hundred bucks. Regular maintenance (sharpening) of the shears at $7.50 - $20 per, as well as periodic replacement of items, and it adds up. I believe that in order to be truly competitive, this is not "luxury" stuff, but necessities. And knowing how to use it and use it well, takes time, training, and a very good eye. And this is part of why a good handler is expensive - they will not take a poorly groomed dog into the ring. An owner handler, who _knows_ how to condition, groom, and present a dog, can be as competitive as a pro. But, honestly? That means doing a whole lot more than "tidying", and doing it really well. If I were to groom two dogs, both of equal quality and with similar coats, using quality tools on one, and marginal tools on the other, doing EXACLTY the same thing, the dog that the quality tools were used on will look far better than the other. No getting around it.


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## GardenPaws

I thought that was a great post PG. Even though I've never shown my Goldens I know just how much goes into grooming for the ring as I know many people that do show. Although your post may sound overwhelming I think it's important to realize there is a middle ground. I recently purchased Deb Oster's DVD on show grooming just so I can learn to groom up my pet Golden better. Will I do everything on the DVD?, no, but I want nice ears and paws, etc.. I love the looks of a show groomed Golden but lets face it that's not realistic for the majority of people unless they are actively showing there dogs. I have friends with pet goldens that won't touch the pants or the feathers, and even though they keep them combed it still looks straggly at the ends adn unkempt. I would much rather see a Golden "tidied up" in the pants, feathers, tail, ears and paws than not. I think you can keep your pet Golden tidy and not sacrifce the look of the Golden. Your post points out that there is MUCH more to a show look than meets the eye, great tools, time, and experience. But we pet owners can take some of those tricks and tips and apply them to our dogs and still have them look nicely groomed.


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## vrocco1

Nobody admitted using chalk and nose paint?


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## HovawartMom

I've only shown in Fr,and there,there's no professional handlers!.The owners do it,all,themselves!.Yes,you have politics but it is fun to show yr own dog and meet the people.The only showdog,i have,now,is Titus and he can only be shown with the HCA,ARBA or UKC.In these shows,most owners show their own dogs!.The Hovawart is shown natural!.By that,i mean that you are not suppose to cut his coat,just tidy it!.You don't coat the tail,the skirt or the ears.A good bath and a good brushing,usually does the job!.
Priska is a field golden and certainly not a show dog but she is none the less,a great dog!.


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## AquaClaraCanines

Chalk is sometimes used in Whippets, but I have never used it. Nose paint is never used in Whippets, or virtually never. Like almost all Whippets, my Whippets have outstanding pigment (Pigment isn't a problem in whippets except dilutes, which although allowed are not usually shown in the USA, or maybe a butterfly nose in a solid white dog- that's extremely rare too. Such a dog would be sold as a pet), and you couldn't get my whippets any whiter than they are if you tried. I always stare in wonderment at people who chalk Whippets (about half do, about half do not)... I simply bathe my Whippets, shave off their whiskers, and off we go. Some people shave out all the inner ear hair... I may trim a little from the top edge of the ear but never the protective hair of the ear canal! Nor do I trim the tail or the "seams" like some do. Insanity if you ask me... these are working rabbit dogs and hardy race dogs. Why would you trim out the protective ear hairs of a working sighthound? BTW tons of non chalked whippets are BIS winners top dogs.

Pigment is more an issue in GR's for sure... but I'm pretty sure nose paint is a big NO NO, am I right?

I shadowed a GR breeder who has a fair bit of success for some time as a kid and I groomed her dogs with her... we didn't use chalk nor did we strip any part of the body. She finishes most of her dogs herself with a fair amount of ease. Of course maybe in the past ten plus years her methods have changed.

Someone recently told me a lot of Border Collie people use chalk, apparently it makes the dogs look like they have more bone. Not something I'd think most show Goldens need help with.

 BTW never try shaving off a GR's whiskers- they have longer hair on their snout than a Whippet does and you won't like the results!  I won't say how I discovered this when I was 15... LOL Use the whisker trimmers or if you must, scissors, though it's possible to botch the job with scissors too.

I think that it's beyond sad that a truly outstanding Golden that is nicely groomed in a moderate way would be overlooked for a lesser one that is carefully sculpted. What a sad state of things for a WORKING gundog... I'm not saying it isn't true, just that if it is, it's really sad.


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## Pointgold

GardenPaws said:


> I thought that was a great post PG. Even though I've never shown my Goldens I know just how much goes into grooming for the ring as I know many people that do show. Although your post may sound overwhelming I think it's important to realize there is a middle ground. I recently purchased Deb Oster's DVD on show grooming just so I can learn to groom up my pet Golden better. Will I do everything on the DVD?, no, but I want nice ears and paws, etc.. I love the looks of a show groomed Golden but lets face it that's not realistic for the majority of people unless they are actively showing there dogs. I have friends with pet goldens that won't touch the pants or the feathers, and even though they keep them combed it still looks straggly at the ends adn unkempt. I would much rather see a Golden "tidied up" in the pants, feathers, tail, ears and paws than not. I think you can keep your pet Golden tidy and not sacrifce the look of the Golden. Your post points out that there is MUCH more to a show look than meets the eye, great tools, time, and experience. But we pet owners can take some of those tricks and tips and apply them to our dogs and still have them look nicely groomed.


 
Your are absolutely right. And one of the hardest things to do was to learn that although Goldens are a coated breed, and we want some length (pants, legs, belly coat, etc), taking OFF hair can actually improve their appearance and even make it look longer (those "straggly" ends are not attractive, and a too long tail with straggly hair is not, either).
Pet owners can certainly apply show grooming tips to their dogs and improve their appearance. Remember, not all the grooming that is done is strictly cosmetic, either, and actually is basic Hygiene 101.


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## AquaClaraCanines

I do agree w/that. I have had pet owners tell me not to cut the tail, then when I talked them into it, they say the hair looks LONGER and thicker  It REALLY works!!

And agree feet, etc, are basic hygiene and make for a much cleaner pet who tracks in less and also has better footing on slick floors.


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## Pointgold

vrocco1 said:


> Nobody admitted using chalk and nose paint?


 
I do not color noses. If a dog has a light nose during the cold months, and the lip line and eye rims are black, that's fine. No reason to color it, as the standard allows for "winter nose".

Poor pigment is what it is, and coloring a nose is not going to help - a judge can tell. Particularly under fluorescent lights - a colored nose appears purplish, or even green.

As for chalk, I do, if needed to clean or to blend a discoloration, but very rarely. I don't even use much at all, if ever, in the Collies - the Collie people were stunned that I take freshly bathed dogs in the ring. Most are shown unwashed and literally PACKED with chalk to make the coat stand out. HA! I can get the same effect in a clean dog using my Kool-Dry, and have actually had judges say "This dog has lovely, clean coat" as we were having the winners pic done. I've learned to apply grooming techniques from one breed to another, something that folks involved in only one breed rarely do. It just makes sense to me to do this if it helps.


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## AquaClaraCanines

Wow PG that's wild about the collies- they actually show them UNBATHED sometimes?


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## vrocco1

Pointgold said:


> I do not color noses. If a dog has a light nose during the cold months, and the lip line and eye rims are black, that's fine. No reason to color it, as the standard allows for "winter nose".
> 
> Poor pigment is what it is, and coloring a nose is not going to help - a judge can tell. Particularly under fluorescent lights - a colored nose appears purplish, or even green.
> 
> As for chalk, I do, if needed to clean or to blend a discoloration, but very rarely. I don't even use much at all, if ever, in the Collies - the Collie people were stunned that I take freshly bathed dogs in the ring. Most are shown unwashed and literally PACKED with chalk to make the coat stand out. HA! I can get the same effect in a clean dog using my Kool-Dry, and have actually had judges say "This dog has lovely, clean coat" as we were having the winners pic done. I've learned to apply grooming techniques from one breed to another, something that folks involved in only one breed rarely do. It just makes sense to me to do this if it helps.


I did not mean the dogs. I use the nose paint on myself.  

I see how some people might be paranoid. LOL


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## Pointgold

AquaClaraCanines said:


> I think that it's beyond sad that a truly outstanding Golden that is nicely groomed in a moderate way would be overlooked for a lesser one that is carefully sculpted. What a sad state of things for a WORKING gundog... I'm not saying it isn't true, just that if it is, it's really sad.


A Golden that is sculpted will not win. A perfectly groomed Golden will never be sculpted. 
What I gather from your postings is that grooming in a "moderate" way does not include any stripping or thinning, particularly around the neck. This could mean that a very nicely balanced dog might look very UNbalanced, if he has too much hair there. To not strip or thin that area, helping to show neck and balance the dog, would be asking not to win.


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## AquaClaraCanines

When I rant about necks, I am talking about the UK dogs which would never win here groomed the way they are there. They have most of their neck fur cut short like a Labrador.

I know there's nothing "natural" about having purebred dogs at all, really, but I just firmly believe working breeds should be shown as natural as possible. I understand some grooming (like paws on a GR, or the basic pattern of the clip of a poodle) has a real origin and purpose, but it's taken to extremes in the ring.


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## AquaClaraCanines

Out of curiousity... would you be able to post some photos of one of yours (or any one you have groomed) before and after? And point out some of the more subtle things? I think it'd be very educational.


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## Pointgold

vrocco1 said:


> I did not mean the dogs. I use the nose paint on myself.
> 
> I see how some people might be paranoid. LOL


Well, crap. Why didn't ya SAY so. For me, it's pretty much a complete bondo job and full paint including clear coat. Then there's the hair - COMPLETELY illegal - WAY too much "foreign substance in the coat and hair". Geeze, I'm legal on a motorcylcle without a helmet I have so much hairspray in there!!! I could fall on my head and not get a scratch


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## Tahnee GR

I'm too busy working on my resume and applying for jobs to be on here much but-hear, hear PG! I agree with you totally. Goldens are so competitive that you have to give them every advantage, in both grooming and handling but moderation in both is the key.

I will never forget showing my foundation girl, Kahli, as a puppy. I showed her in Sweeps at one show, and we did not place but we had fun. My friend Patt Kolesar showed her in regular classes, which she won her class (6-9) and even got a look for WB. The Sweeps judge walked up to Patt afterwards and said "Why wasn't this puppy in Sweeps? I would have given her Best!" I obviously did not know how to show her to her best advantage!


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## Pointgold

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Out of curiousity... would you be able to post some photos of one of yours (or any one you have groomed) before and after? And point out some of the more subtle things? I think it'd be very educational.


At some point, perhaps. But my dogs that are being shown are kept groomed, so there would not be much to be seen in the way of before and after. 
I have a dog coming in to board over the holiday and the owner usually wants him groomed. If so, I will take before and afters then.


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## Pointgold

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Wow PG that's wild about the collies- they actually show them UNBATHED sometimes?


Absolutely. They want the coat to stand away from the body and when freshly washed it won't.


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## AquaClaraCanines

Okay, thanks. That'd be cool to see (the pictures).

I never knew that about collies. I think they are gorgeous dogs and I love them, but I have never known any personally that were not rescues.


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## GardenPaws

Pointgold said:


> Pet owners can certainly apply show grooming tips to their dogs and improve their appearance. Remember, not all the grooming that is done is strictly cosmetic, either, and actually is basic Hygiene 101.


Amen to that!


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## GardenPaws

I use to be a stock photographer for the AKC and covered the occasional dog show. I remember chatting with a Sporting judge that said she liked it when it rained at an outdoor show, because a wet dog hides nothing. Interesting huh? What you see is what you get.


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## AquaClaraCanines

That's why I like Whippets


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## AquaClaraCanines

BTW I sent you a PM Karen... after checking your site and recognizing the dogs and photos!


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## Ljilly28

Tahnee GR said:


> I will never forget showing my foundation girl, Kahli, as a puppy. I showed her in Sweeps at one show, and we did not place but we had fun. My friend Patt Kolesar showed her in regular classes, which she won her class (6-9) and even got a look for WB. The Sweeps judge walked up to Patt afterwards and said "Why wasn't this puppy in Sweeps? I would have given her Best!" I obviously did not know how to show her to her best advantage!


I was looking up threads on grooming show puppies, and I came across this story of Linda's. Grooming and handling is so much harder than I ever thought, but it is an art that is so interesting to study and learn.


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## lgnutah

moverking said:


> No, I can get the burrs out fine, I just missed 2 on each girl...and no mats, _they_ chewed each others out, plus lotsa hair. So they looked like unkempt street dogs that no one loved with ratty asses, LOL.
> I couldn't help myself.....:uhoh:



Yikes! I didn't know this thought ran through people's minds when they see ratty butt feathers.

As Brooks has taken it upon himself to "trim" his butt feathers (ever since they first came in, apparently he was unable to deal with this grown up feature and wanted for forever keep his fur there trimmed low) he now looks "like an unkempt street dog that no one loves".....


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## GoldenSail

Ljilly28 said:


> I was looking up threads on grooming show puppies, and I came across this story of Linda's. Grooming and handling is so much harder than I ever thought, but it is an art that is so interesting to study and learn.


I agree. What is equally confusing (and interesting) is that everyone has their own way of doing things! From the products they use to what they trim and how. I have seen feet alone done a few different ways...


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## Tahnee GR

Ljilly28 said:


> I was looking up threads on grooming show puppies, and I came across this story of Linda's. Grooming and handling is so much harder than I ever thought, but it is an art that is so interesting to study and learn.


LOl-that took me back! That was a definite lesson for me in what proper handling can do for a dog. It sure wasn't grooming, as I had groomed her that morning. It was the handling all the way.


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## MaddieMagoo

Tahnee GR said:


> LOl-that took me back! That was a definite lesson for me in what proper handling can do for a dog. It sure wasn't grooming, as I had groomed her that morning. It was the handling all the way.


Okay...so I'm just reading the past few things^^...and now I'm suddenly confused. LOL! : I would love to read this story, if only I knew where it is? Or am I just plain stupid??... haha.


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## diana_D

the UK grooming style has a very specific purpose - these dogs are meant to work in the field. I'd hate to see a dog groomed AKC style all tangled up after a day in the field, then some people will realize why grooming a dog a certain style has a meaning. 

And besides UK is the COUNTRY OF ORIGIN. Everyone should follow that standard, grooming included. Everyone here in Europe follows that standard.


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## GoldenSail

diana_D said:


> the UK grooming style has a very specific purpose - these dogs are meant to work in the field. I'd hate to see a dog groomed AKC style all tangled up after a day in the field, then some people will realize why grooming a dog a certain style has a meaning.
> 
> And besides UK is the COUNTRY OF ORIGIN. Everyone should follow that standard, grooming included. Everyone here in Europe follows that standard.


How does it help them in the field? I have just started training my american show golden for field work and *if* I were to trim something to prevent tangling it would be (unfortunately) the leg, butt and tail feathers first. This is where she picks up nasty burrs, branches, etc and the tangling can be messy. The rough and neck is not a problem area with my dog.


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## Golden Leo

I completely agree with PG, grooming is art and good grooming can make good dog look great and bad grooming great dog to look bad. Wonderful post PG! As usual!
UK grooming is different than US - we cut tail hair to the tip of the tail so it's clear how long the tail is, we cut hair above the hocks to have clean look on rear angulation and we cut neck hair to have clean look on neck and front angulation. Everything else (ears, legs, lower body) is formed just to dog looks tidy. Although US style is more natural, I, myself, find UK style more effective, when you have clean neck, clean hocks you can more easily see dogs outline without touching the dog. As PG said, neck hair on show dogs can sometimes make dog look out of balance. In UK grooming there is not much to hide on dog when groomed properly.
What someone said- UK dogs are trimmed like labradors in neck- it is far from the truth. Neck hair isn't that short and if it's too short it is penalised especially by UK judges. Some people do that - those dogs look like the have shaved necks but it's penalty.


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