# Worried:Low hematocrit ?



## cham (Feb 21, 2008)

Ljilly28 said:


> Tally's CBC came back with a low hematocrit score, and the vet is concerned. Tango and Finn both got A+ on their CBC tests, but not Tally Does anyone know what could cause this? He is not bleeding internally, they know for sure. Her best guess is it's connected to tick stuff, and he'll have something called a PCT to see if there is any live anaplasmosis even though we treated it aggressively this fall. I am worried though Tally was awesome at Rally tonight and he is glossy, playful, and asymptomatic. What exactly is a hematocrit?


From Medline: A Hematocrit is a blood test that measures the number of red blood cells and the size of red blood cells. It gives a percentage of red blood cells found in whole blood. This test is almost always ordered as part of a complete blood count. 

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/sea...8:zwflpnggfls&cof=FORID:9&q=Low+hemocrit+#708

This site I find very helpful.


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## Cam's Mom (Apr 13, 2007)

HCT is Packed Cell Volume (PCV) Information on the number of red blood cells (RBC) present in the blood. Decreased levels means anemia from many different causes.


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## ssories (Jan 20, 2009)

Its a measure of how many red blood cells there are in the blood basically. 

It could be low because of anaemia- maybe due to parasites like you said. It could also be any disease that causes blood loss, the break down of the blood cells or something that reduces the amount of red blood cells produced. 

I really don't know enough to give you a good idea sorry  it would be best to talk to your vet and they will answer any questions you have. I am a vet nurse but have limited knowledge on this.

I hope everything works out ok and its nothing serious. I'm sure it will all be fine


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I am not that familiar with the other tick diseases. You might want to ask the question on the Tick-L list, or check out Gil Ash's very informative tick pages:

http://blackgsd.googlepages.com/ehrlichiosis

I wouldn't panic yet-there is something going on but now you just need to figure out what it is.

Fingers crossed that it is something simple and easy to fix.


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

I'm glad the experts chimed in, sorry I can't help. Seems to be the only thing my dogs have never had!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Hematocrit, or packed cell volume, measures thevolume of red blood cells as a percentage of the whole blood. Low PCV indicates anemia, normal is 37-55 percent. A MCV (mean corpuscle volume - determines size of the red cells) and RDW (red cell distribution width - a relative measurement of the variation in size of the red cell poplution ) might be done to help determine if the anemia is acute (hemorrhage) or chronic, as might occur with liver or kidney disease. Since tick bourne disease has been an issue before, this is probably why the vet doesn't think it is acute.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

cham said:


> From Medline: A Hematocrit is a blood test that measures the number of red blood cells and the size of red blood cells. It gives a percentage of red blood cells found in whole blood. This test is almost always ordered as part of a complete blood count.
> 
> http://www.marvistavet.com/html/sea...8:zwflpnggfls&cof=FORID:9&q=Low+hemocrit+#708
> 
> This site I find very helpful.


Thank you for this site. I've been reading it for twenty minutes and bookmarked it.


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## cham (Feb 21, 2008)

Some thing just dawned on me... will the vet repeat the HCT to make sure there wasn't an error. It's possible not probable but its worth a shot.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> Hematocrit, or packed cell volume, measures thevolume of red blood cells as a percentage of the whole blood. Low PCV indicates anemia, normal is 37-55 percent. A MCV (mean corpuscle volume - determines size of the red cells) and RDW (red cell distribution width - a relative measurement of the variation in size of the red cell poplution ) might be done to help determine if the anemia is acute (hemorrhage) or chronic, as might occur with liver or kidney disease. Since tick bourne disease has been an issue before, this is probably why the vet doesn't think it is acute.


PG, how worried should I be? It's not too low,35, but low for Tally. Finn and Tango are in the 50's. Tally's litter was possibly born with anaplasmosis, so his hemacrit as an 8 week old pup was down to 18, and I almost lost him( several babies didnt make it).


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

What is his hct????? Here is a basic article on anemia. http://www.petplace.com/dogs/anemia-in-dogs/page1.aspx It's important to find the underlying cause. Hopefully, it is something that can be easily treated. If it, in fact, is tick related, it would seem that any autoimmune problem could be ruled out. That's good news. Our rescue springer we adopted knowing he had an autoimmune anemia. His hematocrit at it's lowest was 18..... all of his other CBC values were abnormal also. It took months of treatment with steroids and antibiotics to correct. Luckily, he is now doing well and has been off all meds for almost 2 years. He had a CBC last week and his hct was 45..... very normal. 
Depending on how low the hct is, I would not exert him until you have a diagnosis. Keep watch on his gums, that they don't turn white or gray.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> What is his hct????? Here is a basic article on anemia. http://www.petplace.com/dogs/anemia-in-dogs/page1.aspx It's important to find the underlying cause. Hopefully, it is something that can be easily treated. If it, in fact, is tick related, it would seem that any autoimmune problem could be ruled out. That's good news. Our rescue springer we adopted knowing he had an autoimmune anemia. His hematocrit at it's lowest was 18..... all of his other CBC values were abnormal also. It took months of treatment with steroids and antibiotics to correct. Luckily, he is now doing well and has been off all meds for almost 2 years. He had a CBC last week and his hct was 45..... very normal.
> Depending on how low the hct is, I would not exert him until you have a diagnosis. Keep watch on his gums, that they don't turn white or gray.


Thanks for the concrete response. My vet called with the news, and asked him to come back in so I didnt yet get a chance to process/ask questions, and I've been fretting and worrying. It's great to know your springer is doing well.


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

DO YOU KNOW HOW LOW IT WAS? WHEN HUNTER'S DROPPED TO 9.7 WHEN HE WAS IN ICU WITH AUTOIMMUNE HEMOLYTIC ANEMIA, HE WAS GIVE 2 UNITS OF BLOOD AND THAT ONLY BROUGHT IT UP TO 18 AND IT FELL AGAIN WITHIN HOURS. iI DO NOT KNOW HOW LOW IT DROPPED THAT CAUSED HIM TO GET A 2ED TRANSUFSION A FEW DAYS LATER, BUT ALL WAS IN VAIN BECAUSE THE AIHA AND THE LIVER DAMAGE CAUSED BY THAT STINKING PROHEART6 WAS TO MUCH FOR MY GOLDEN BOY.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Oh, I'm so relieved to see you say his hct was 35, which is only barely below normal. My vet told me he rarely sees dogs in the 50's... and most of those are sight hounds. I still would keep an eye on his gums and follow thru with further testing. Also, his degree of hydration at time of testing can effect his reading. 

Has he ever had a CBC before??? It might be that he runs lower than your other dogs normally too.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

3 goldens said:


> DO YOU KNOW HOW LOW IT WAS? WHEN HUNTER'S DROPPED TO 9.7 WHEN HE WAS IN ICU WITH AUTOIMMUNE HEMOLYTIC ANEMIA, HE WAS GIVE 2 UNITS OF BLOOD AND THAT ONLY BROUGHT IT UP TO 18 AND IT FELL AGAIN WITHIN HOURS. iI DO NOT KNOW HOW LOW IT DROPPED THAT CAUSED HIM TO GET A 2ED TRANSUFSION A FEW DAYS LATER, BUT ALL WAS IN VAIN BECAUSE THE AIHA AND THE LIVER DAMAGE CAUSED BY THAT STINKING PROHEART6 WAS TO MUCH FOR MY GOLDEN BOY.


I remember that about the Proheart6, and I am so sorry. Being given a lethal drug by a vet and a drug company is a real horror. I think about Hunter's story often, and there just arent words for how sad it is for you.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> PG, how worried should I be? It's not too low,35, but low for Tally. Finn and Tango are in the 50's. Tally's litter was possibly born with anaplasmosis, so his hemacrit as an 8 week old pup was down to 18, and I almost lost him( several babies didnt make it).


 
Laura, if I told you not to worry, that wouldn't stop you! 
I just read that he is 35 percent, so it's improbable that whatever it is is acute, like hemorrhage. I would say that your vet is smart in supposing that it is related to his tick borne issue. It may mean that he needs to be on another agressive course of doxycycline. 
If he didn't already, he may run a CBC/Blood chemistry, after fasting. It would include kidney/liver function panels to help determine if TBD is affecting those organs and allow for accurate treatment. 

Of course, I'd be concerned, but I wouldn't fret at this point. 35 percent is not "bad". (I too wonder what his normal baseline might have been). As was mentioned, higher PCV's are not normally seen in Goldens, but in racing dogs like Greyhounds, and other sighthound breeds who need highly oxygenated blood for bursts of high speed.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

Low hematocrit is also a signal of Ehrlichiosis...another tick borne disease. (However Anaplasmosis used to be lumped in with Ehrlichiosis, but now is classified as a separate disease)

Pretty generally, doxycycline will be prescribed.

http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vetmed/Medicine/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/506867

The article states that they tend to see these diseases more in Goldens and Labs over 8 years of age:



> Clinical disease has most often been reported in dogs 8 years of age or older.2,8 Golden retrievers and Labrador retrievers are overrepresented in most reports, but it is uncertain whether this is the result of breed susceptibility, frequency of exposure in these breeds, or breed popularity.2,8,9


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## 3459 (Dec 27, 2007)

Sending golden hugs and lots of good thoughts for Tally! And lots of good thoughts for Tally's vet so you can find some answers quickly!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

One thing that worries me(Good point, PG, I'm definitely going to fret until it's resolved) is that Tally took a high dose of Doxycycline for 6 weeks, and only finished a few weeks ago. There's some kind of chronic erlichia carrier status that forebodes problems, and another kind that is more about antibodies. He has to take a PCR test for anaplasmosis DNA(???), to see if the infection is dead or alive. Freaks me out bc he is so young.

Is there any nutritional support for anemia in dogs?


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> One thing that worries me(Good point, PG, I'm definitely going to fret until it's resolved) is that Tally took a high dose of Doxycycline for 6 weeks, and only finished a few weeks ago. There's some kind of chronic erlichia carrier status that forebodes problems, and another kind that is more about antibodies. He has to take a PCR test for anaplasmosis DNA(???), to see if the infection is dead or alive. Freaks me out bc he is so young.
> 
> Is there any nutritional support for anemia in dogs?[/qu
> 
> ...


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## Riley's Mom (Jul 6, 2008)

Just wanted to let you know that Uncle Riley and I are sending good thoughts for Tally.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> One thing that worries me(Good point, PG, I'm definitely going to fret until it's resolved) is that Tally took a high dose of Doxycycline for 6 weeks, and only finished a few weeks ago. There's some kind of chronic erlichia carrier status that forebodes problems, and another kind that is more about antibodies. He has to take a PCR test for anaplasmosis DNA(???), to see if the infection is dead or alive. Freaks me out bc he is so young.
> 
> Is there any nutritional support for anemia in dogs?


"You need to give your dog a special diet rich in iron, protein, and vitamin B12. The following lists of foods and supplements are especially helpful and provide the necessary nutrients that your dog needs to treat anemia.
1. Beef liver which contains iron, protein, B complex, and B12. 2. Kelp powder which contains iodine and other trace minerals. 3. Green vegetables which contains iron and other minerals. 4. Nutritional yeast along with B12 which offers the same benefits as the liver. 5. Vitamin C, from 500 to 2,000 milligrams per day (depending on the dog's size) which helps with the absorption of iron from the intestinal tract."


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> He has to take a PCR test for anaplasmosis DNA(???), to see if the infection is dead or alive.


PCR = Polymerase chain reaction....they'll take a blood or swab sample and try to 'find/replicate' the DNA of the bacteria....Ehrlichia has never been successfully grown out in vitro. So PCR would be the only way to successfully ID it.


http://www.columbia-lyme.org/patients/tbd_ehrli-anapla.html

http://www.accessexcellence.org/RC/AB/IE/PCR_Xeroxing_DNA.php


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

moverking said:


> PCR = Polymerase chain reaction....they'll take a blood or swab sample and try to 'find/replicate' the DNA of the bacteria....Ehrlichia has never been successfully grown out in vitro. So PCR would be the only way to successfully ID it.
> 
> 
> http://www.columbia-lyme.org/patients/tbd_ehrli-anapla.html
> ...


 
Such COOL science... I love it.:yes:


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Sending prayers and good wishes for dear Tally and you too Jill!

The people on this board are more than amazing! Not only the knowledge that is always present but the quick jump to help any of us in need!!! Love you guys!


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## 3459 (Dec 27, 2007)

Debles said:


> The people on this board are more than amazing! Not only the knowledge that is always present but the quick jump to help any of us in need!!! Love you guys!


You are sooooo right, Deb!

Still sending prayers and good thoughts for you and Tally, Jill. Please keep us updated.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Thanks for all the incredible information and support. This forum is very empowering, and sometimes more up to date than my vets are! Tally is going for his PCR test this morning, which hopefully will explain his low hematocrit. Jean Dodds wrote back to my vet and me at 3:45 AM on a Saturday, which is amazing dedication, so she will run the test in her lab instead of Idexx, and then work to solve the issue. If it's not erlichia/anaplasmosis, then I will take him to Tufts just for peace of mind.

Tango is still negative for all tick things, and Finn's CBC and C6 showed an ideal response to doxy with an A+ CBC(Yes, they get letter grades from the vet so patients will be clear on the seriousness of the results). I wonder if Tally has a tougher time bc he either was born with a tick problem or acquired it at a few weeks old, or if his anemia is unrelated(seems unlikely) , or if the early infection damaged his bone marrow, or if he has an ongoing infection in a chronic way?? I am worried, so it's really nice to have the forum!


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Good luck to you and Tally!


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## 3459 (Dec 27, 2007)

Thinking lots of good thoughts for your and Tally. I love how proactive you are being. All fingers and paws crossed and golden hugs coming until you have some good news to share with us.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Yesterday was tough. 760$ of tests bc Tally's hematocrit was even lower (29) with a swollen lymph node. . . PCR for erlichia etc, lymphoma needle biopsy, thyroid test, radiographs. . . all kinds of things, so we will see. What consoles me is that he seems really playful, glossy, and fit, with shining eyes and eating well. . . Gums look pretty pink and temp is normal Three vets in the practice who love Tally, and are proud they saved him as a baby, gathered around and worked together with him. They are going to put him back on Doxycycline as they are pretty sure erlichia/anaplasmosis is the one thing that explains all their finding. The PCR test takes 10 whole days to come back. Incedently, one of the receptionists is in the hospitial on IV antibiotics with her own relapse of Lyme. I want to move states to somewhere with no ticks! They are learning that while it does take that traditional 24-48 hours to transmit Lyme, that Anaplasma probably takes only about three hours. Frontline doesnt work that fast, and the Preventic collars are dangerous to cats and if dogs pull on each others collars. It's an intimidating problem for dogs who are out in the woods&fields.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I'll be keeping you and Tally in my thoughts and prayers until those test results are in. Hugs to you both.


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

I know you're worried, but it sounds like you have a great vet team working together on sweet Tally. I double checked doxy's side effects to make sure there wasn't some _rare _side effect of anemia, but it doesn't look like that's an issue. PCR testing is a bit time consuming...(I got to do it with fungal samples several years ago and it was just fascinating). After the DNA is replicated, it has to be 'sequenced' to determine if it really IS Ehrlichia, or some other bacterium, or even just a contaminate. So it takes a bit.

I don't know Tally's history...was he ill as a pup with the same thing?

Hugs and positive patience to you! And a BIG hug to Tally:


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Oh Jill, I'm so sorry to hear it wasn't a simpler, more comforting answer. You're a champ for going all out on the tests like that. Still, I feel good that there's going to be a positive, treatable answer here.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

> I don't know Tally's history...was he ill as a pup with the same thing?


Yes, several pups didnt make it, and one brother died on the same exact day my vets solved the mystery. Doxy made him go from crisis to playful in 48 hours. It was an amazing lesson in the power of anitbiotics. However, they are wondering if maybe the bacteria damaged his bone marrow or if the bacteria is still alive. As you know, I'm head over heels in love with the dog, so i do worry. I trust my vets though, and I am pleased they are talking with Idexx, UNC, and Jean Dodds. It's cool seeing them powwow and problem solve. He's just 18 months, so I think he should be in a healthy stage of his life!


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

I'm going to have to get "Ancora Imparo" (I am still learning) tatoo'd on my forehead! 
I'm still reading it, but found a good site (Scroll down to Jaspar's story)
http://www.vintagegoldens.com/tick.htm

You've probably seen this site already....but thought I'd throw it out to you.

Nasty ticks....come to WV, it's not so bad here...yet


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

moverking said:


> I'm going to have to get "Ancora Imparo" (I am still learning) tatoo'd on my forehead!
> I'm still reading it, but found a good site (Scroll down to Jaspar's story)
> http://www.vintagegoldens.com/tick.htm
> 
> ...


Thanks for the website! Oh Jeez


> anemia is a hallmark of babesiosis


, I havent even heard this one mentioned. How can one tiny bug possibly be so evil?


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Okay, I am swearing off research until the PCR test comes back. I'd never even heard of this tick disease, and it is scary, scary!



Because Babesia is a tick-borne infection, it is not unusual for infected dogs to have other tick-borne infections such as Ehrlichiosis, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, and others. These infections may interact to make each other more severe. If the acute symptoms are relatively mild or at least non-lethal, a chronic infection can develop. This is usually without symptoms but the dog may continue to be a source of infection to feeding ticks. Relapses can also occur with stress.

Young dogs tend to be most severely infected, especially. Pit Bull terriers.

DIAGNOSIS OF BABESIOSIS

If one is very lucky, the Babesia organisms can be seen on a blood smear. Babesia canis organisms are tear-shaped and occur in pairs. Other Babesia species have several forms in which they appear. Odds of finding the organism are improved by checking freshly drawn blood taken from a capillary source ( a small cut to an ear, for example) rather than from a blood vessel. If Babesia organisms are found, the patient is definitely infected but they are hard to find so an alternative method of diagnosis is needed.

Antibody testing has been problematic as infected animals may have circulating antibodies long after the organism is gone or may have no antibodies circulating while a few organisms remain hidden inside red blood cells.

The current method of diagnosis involves PCR testing. This is extremely sensitive testing and can distinguish 4 different species of Babesia. While only certain laboratories run this type of testing, this is really the best method of answering the Babesia infection question.

BABESIA TREATMENT

Therapy for Babesia is not a benign under-taking. In fact, if a dog is asymptomatic with Babesia, treatment is not worth the side effects. Further, even with treatment Babesia gibsoni, and probably the other small Babesia species, cannot be fully cleared by any of the drugs listed. Female dogs testing positive for Babesia should not be bred.

Diminazene Aceturate
This drug is not available in the U.S. but in other countries is the most commonly used treatment. A single injection is needed and is best used on Babesia canis. Side effects include: nausea, blood pressure drop, painful injection, seizures, and some fatal reactions.

Imidocarb Dipropionate
This is the only drug approved for Babesiosis in the U.S. A single dose is usually effective for Babesia canis but two given two weeks apart are needed for Babesia gibsoni and the other smaller Babesias. The injection is painful plus causes muscle tremors, drooling, elevated heart rate, shivering, fever, facial swelling, tearing of the eyes, and restlessness. Pre-treatment with an injection of atropine helps palliate these side effects.

Trypan Blue
This medication serves to block the parasite from entering red blood cells and may help minimize the symptoms of the infection. Side effects are minimal and it is given as an IV drip.

Phenamidine Isethionate
This drug is not available in the U.S. but a similar drug, Pentamidine isethionate, is. It is more effective on Babesia canis.

Quinuronium Sulfate
This drug is not available in the U.S. It is similar to malarial treatment. It is given as a series of two injections two days apart generally with marked improvement in the patient by the second injection.

A combination therapy of quinine, azithromycin, atovaquone, and/or clindamycin are promising and may become prominent in the future.

A vaccine is available against Babesia in France but only seems effective against certain strains. Vaccination is 89% effective in France. The best prevention is aimed at tick control.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Babesiosis is a terrific suggestion. The vets may have ruled it out because it's not currently enedmic to Maine, but as we are learning, with warmer winters, many of these diseases are appearing outside their traditional range. It's a common co-infection with other TBDs, since its primary vector in the east are deer ticks. From what I undestand, the doxycycline won't cure it, since it's a protozoa, not a bacteria, but there are absolutely PCR tests and blood smear tests to look for it, and there are plenty of meds that will work.

Jill - is it worth running that by the vet team?


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Hey Jill - from what I've been reading, the treatments in the article you posted are a little out of date. There appear to be medicines currently available with far fewer side effects. If Tally does have babesiosis, the situation may not be nearly as dire as the article makes it sound.

I think the biggest pain the keister will be waiting on another PCR test, since definitively diagnosing it will be very difficult otherwise.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

tippykayak said:


> Babesiosis is a terrific suggestion. The vets may have ruled it out because it's not currently enedmic to Maine, but as we are learning, with warmer winters, many of these diseases are appearing outside their traditional range. It's a common co-infection with other TBDs, since its primary vector in the east are deer ticks. From what I undestand, the doxycycline won't cure it, since it's a protozoa, not a bacteria, but there are absolutely PCR tests and blood smear tests to look for it, and there are plenty of meds that will work.
> 
> Jill - is it worth running that by the vet team?


Hi Brian, Any idea of how to pronounce it? Dr. Andrews already called this morning, and that lets me know he is worried bc he's not too much on the babying of the clients,lol. He's kind of known as a diagnsotician, so he takes it personally when he cant pull a House. I'd like to ask him, but want to say it correctly.


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

tippykayak said:


> Hey Jill - from what I've been reading, the treatments in the article you posted are a little out of date. There appear to be medicines currently available with far fewer side effects. If Tally does have babesiosis, the situation may not be nearly as dire as the article makes it sound.
> 
> I think the biggest pain the keister will be waiting on another PCR test, since definitively diagnosing it will be very difficult otherwise.


Hey, call your team now and ask for them to screen for this one, too. They've got the sample already, they can add on another test. They just have to set up a different PCR parameter....or DO they, hmmmm. Couldn't they run it to replicate/sequence *any* DNA they find in the sample...like a 'screening' PCR run...can they do that?
Jill, how costly are the PCR tests?


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Ljilly28 said:


> Hi Brian, Any idea of how to pronounce it? Dr. Andrews already called this morning, and that lets me know he is worried bc he's not too much on the babying of the clients,lol. He's kind of known as a diagnsotician, so he takes it personally when he cant pull a House. I'd like to ask him, but want to say it correctly.


Well, I've only read it, but I did manage to find it pronounced on dictionary.com as buh-bee-zee-oh-sis. If you link over to here, you can then click "hear" to have it pronounced for you.

I'm linking an article here that suggests that Atovaquone and Azithromycin in conjunction might be just as effective as the older treatments but with dramatically reduced side effects. That study is from 2000, so it seems likely your vets will know about the protocol, presuming it held up to further study.


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> Hi Brian, Any idea of how to pronounce it? Dr. Andrews already called this morning, and that lets me know he is worried bc he's not too much on the babying of the clients,lol. He's kind of known as a diagnsotician, so he takes it personally when he cant pull a House. I'd like to ask him, but want to say it correctly.


Bab (like nab) eee-zee-o-sis


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

moverking said:


> Hey, call your team now and ask for them to screen for this one, too. They've got the sample already, they can add on another test. They just have to set up a different PCR parameter....or DO they, hmmmm. Couldn't they run it to replicate/sequence *any* DNA they find in the sample...like a 'screening' PCR run...can they do that?
> Jill, how costly are the PCR tests?


PCR test is 180$- definitely worth it for Tally . I would rather have my dog than my morgage- clear on that!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I'm going to call now- you guys are THE BEST.


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

Oh, I know it's not an issue...I was worried it would be far higher than that.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Keep us posted. I don't have to teach class until 12:45, and I'm mighty curious as to what the doc has to say.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

So, they added on a PCR test for babesiosis. His white blood cell count fell too- which I didnt know before. It is a tick thing, autoimmune, or some kind of cancer- and he is only 18 months. It's so hard to swallow the lump in my throat- just love this dog so much. He'll go back on doxycycline tomorrow, bc when he takes it, his tests look better. Any suggestions would be so appreciated-

Brian, I wish you were here! I'm scared.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> So, they added on a PCR test for babesiosis. His white blood cell count fell too- which I didnt know before. It is a tick thing, autoimmune, or some kind of cancer- and he is only 18 months. It's so hard to swallow the lump in my throat- just love this dog so much. He'll go back on doxycycline tomorrow, bc when he takes it, his tests look better. Any suggestions would be so appreciated-
> 
> Brian, I wish you were here! I'm scared.


 
Laura, my gut feeling is TBD. You are in my prayers, for courage, and to have peace of mind.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I am so sorry you are going through this. I, too, will be praying for you two.


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## riddle03 (Jun 9, 2005)

My thoughts and prayers are with you and Tally. It sounds like you have a great vet team in your corner. Keep us posted.


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## 3459 (Dec 27, 2007)

Oh, Tally, c'mon buddy. Whatever this is, you can beat it! Sending prayers for peace and strength for you and Tally, and wisdom and inspiration for your vets. Lots of golden hugs, too, from an old bird with a lumpy throat, and teary eyes.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Laura*

Laura:

Any news on Tally.
All our prayers are with you and him!!


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## 3SweetGoldens (Feb 28, 2007)

Oh Jill....I am so upset to read this thread tonight. I am praying the tests will reveal what is going on with Tally, and be something that is easy treatable once the diagnosis is made. You are both in my thoughts and prayers tonight.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

How's Tally this morning?


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I may just thinking wishfully, but I do think the doxy is making a difference. They'll repeat his cbc to monitor white/red blood cells and await pcr results for erlichiia/ babsesiosis - if no answers, then he'll go to Tufts. I dont want to play around.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Fingers crossed that the doxy keeps working! Hilton is abut 2 weeks into hers, and so far no upset tummy or anything else.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Healing thoughts and prayers coming your way. I know all too well the anxious wait trying to get that CBC back in line. For months with Cody we were running them every other week, now it's just semi-annually. C'mon kiddo, you can do it!!!!!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Well, Tally's PCR erlichia test came back negative, which is proof positive that the Snap4DX reacts to antibodies after active infection is gone. His Babesia test is inconclusive, and needs to be repeated. On Saturday(poor pupper!), he'll repeat his CBC and PCR for those protozoa. A vet from the lab called and quizzed me on our travels, and found it very significant that the dogs went to my friends Tasha& Tanner's wedding in the Hamptons. I guess Long Island has lots of babesios(?).The only other thing thay can think to do is to xray spleen/biopsy bone marrow, so I hope it won't go that far. It's not that drastic a low number, but it's nonregenrating anemia and a pretty significant drop in white blood cells. Since Tango and Finn are testing perfectly normal in everything, it is specific to Tally. I really hope it's not cancer or autoimmune, but there dont seem to be many differentials? I am wondering if doxycycline or rimadyl can cause any of this? Grasping at straws, I guess. Tally himself is eating well and playing, so it is confusing.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I so hope the answer pops soon... I know how worried we can be with our puppers. Sending prayers and get well wishes.


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## Susan6953 (Jun 9, 2008)

My prayers are with you and Tally, too. It's awful when one of your babies is sick. Veterinary medicine can do so much these days, though, so hopefully they will be able to treat whatever it is. My sister's corgi has autoimmune hemolytic anemia and it has been pretty effectively treated.


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## 3459 (Dec 27, 2007)

Just checking in to get the update on Tally. Hang in there, Jill. Fingers and paws crossed and prayers coming for definitive answers and remedies soon.


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## 3SweetGoldens (Feb 28, 2007)

Hi Jill....just getting back from spending a couple days with my daughter at the Ocean. Just checking in to see how Tally is doing. I so hope and pray that this will all be sorted out soon, and the treatment needed to correct the problem. Praying for Tally, and thinking of you both.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Praying and thinking of sweet Tally boy and you.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> Well, Tally's PCR erlichia test came back negative, which is proof positive that the Snap4DX reacts to antibodies after active infection is gone. His Babesia test is inconclusive, and needs to be repeated. On Saturday(poor pupper!), he'll repeat his CBC and PCR for those protozoa. A vet from the lab called and quizzed me on our travels, and found it very significant that the dogs went to my friends Tasha& Tanner's wedding in the Hamptons. I guess Long Island has lots of babesios(?).The only other thing thay can think to do is to xray spleen/biopsy bone marrow, so I hope it won't go that far. It's not that drastic a low number, but it's nonregenrating anemia and a pretty significant drop in white blood cells. Since Tango and Finn are testing perfectly normal in everything, it is specific to Tally. I really hope it's not cancer or autoimmune, but there dont seem to be many differentials? I am wondering if doxycycline or rimadyl can cause any of this? Grasping at straws, I guess. Tally himself is eating well and playing, so it is confusing.


There is quite a bit on anemia being linked to N-Saids http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=rimadyl+caused+anemia?&btnG=Search Having had a dog with an autoimmune anemia ( who is fine BTW... it's our springer COdy), we never did find a cause. Looking at every possible cause is only the sensible thing to do. I know in our case, doxy and huge doses of prednisone were the first lines of treatment. If it does turn out to be an autoimmune issue, I have several really good sites, and there is treatment and cure possible. The fact that his hct is only slightly abnormal, is a huge plus in my mind. Please keep us posted.


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Jill, fingers crossed that you get an explanation for Tally's troubles. At least Tufts isn't too far away if you need to go that route (I'm forever grateful that CSU's just up the road an hour+ from me). Thinking good healing thoughts for your boy....


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