# Coat Conditioning



## CarolinaCasey

Let's discuss coat conditioning...

Do you do anything extra above & beyond feeding a quality food?
If so...
What product(s) do you like best?
How often do you use it?
In what ways (pre/post brush, bath, show, blow dry, etc)?
Likes/Dislikes


I ordered Ice on Ice by Chris Christenson. I know that you aren't supposed to brush a dry coat... (and I have been doing that:curtain... so I bought the Ice on Ice conditioner to spray on before brushing. Gibbs has an incredibly soft coat. Everyone that pets him remarks about it so if the spray doesn't do anything, that's ok too. I just used the spray this afternoon. I had to let it thaw since it arrived frozen solid and partially exploded from 3c's supply. Yikes.


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## Pointgold

What is your goal? 
A correct Golden coat is not soft. Over-conditioning is as bad as not conditioning. The best way to care for a coat is to keep it clean, and to feed a high quality diet, and choose a dog with good genetics.
Weekly baths, light conditioner or oil on ends to prevent/repair breakage, daily brushing with a mist of water (if you want to, add a couple of DROPS of a conditioner to improve slippage), and you should be good to go.


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## CarolinaCasey

Pointgold said:


> What is your goal?
> A correct Golden coat is not soft. Over-conditioning is as bad as not conditioning. The best way to care for a coat is to keep it clean, and to feed a high quality diet, and choose a dog with good genetics.
> Weekly baths, light conditioner or oil on ends to prevent/repair breakage, daily brushing with a mist of water (if you want to, add a couple of DROPS of a conditioner to improve slippage), and you should be good to go.


He still has some puppy coat, so it is pretty soft and fluffy yet. We feed a quality kibble and he has a nice pedigree behind him, all of which have very nice coats. I plan to show him once he matures. His first show won't be until the summer at our club's specialty. So, I guess my goal is to have a good looking, well kept coat by then. I'll be seeing his breeder this weekend and we need to schedule a little trim on the feet and ears. I plan to ask her about her routine for puppies then. I'm just curious about what other people also do for their dogs.

Can I mist with a water + Ice on Ice diluted combo when I brush daily?


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## JDandBigAm

I do spray Ice on Ice on the hair ends before I brush. The CC brushes are really nice too. The nails get trimmed once a week and the hair around the paws get trimmed up once a week to help with cleaning paws after a walk. Ditto with PG's reply. She has been a wealth of great information.


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## GoldenSail

I was bathing weekly and blowing dry using a force air dryer. But--since I decided we're going to wait another year to mature I have let that slip.

Stay away from cockleburrs. We had a grooming presentation last night at our club meeting and the groomer (who has been showing/grooming for years) said that if you get just one in a show dog you are SOL no matter what you do because something will tear  That's the hardest for me to avoid--we love the outdoors!


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## Pointgold

GoldenSail said:


> I was bathing weekly and blowing dry using a force air dryer. But--since I decided we're going to wait another year to mature I have let that slip.
> 
> Stay away from cockleburrs. We had a grooming presentation last night at our club meeting and the groomer (who has been showing/grooming for years) said that if you get just one in a show dog you are SOL no matter what you do because something will tear  That's the hardest for me to avoid--we love the outdoors!


 
I disagree. They are dogs, _Sporting _dogs. They need to be out. Burrs happen, It's what you do to get them out that makes the difference, and tearing out a few hairs is not going to be the deciding factor as to whether your dog wins or not.


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## lgnutah

Just curious, what does brushing a dry coat do that is bad for it?


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## sterregold

The hair breaks and frays more easily if you brush dry.

I would not be using Ice on Ice as a coat dressing for routine daily brushing. It is silicone based so will build up in the coat and dry it out. Do as PG suggested and put a bit of conditioner (a dog conditioner like CC's Day-to-Day, or Refurbish, or Isle of Dogs, or even just Pantene if you have it around) diluted in water in a spray bottle. Or use a non-silicone grooming spray like Eric Strickland's that is intended to maintain correct coat texture in a Golden.

As for burrs, I upland hunt my JAM dog--he finds burrs (and other things!!) but I am not going to stop letting him do what he loves to save coat! I just keep a bottle of human hair straightening serum in my gun bag. I apply it directly to the burr, work it in with my fingers and the burr tends to kind of come apart and release from the coat much better. Cowboy Magic works well for this too. I do this before I leave the field. Then when I get home I throw him in the tub to rinse out the silicone. If I know we are going to be in really burry territory I will sometimes pretreat his furnishings and that seems to help the stickage from being too terrible, and I still rinse once I get home.


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## sterregold

Pointgold said:


> I disagree. They are dogs, _Sporting _dogs. They need to be out. Burrs happen, It's what you do to get them out that makes the difference, and tearing out a few hairs is not going to be the deciding factor as to whether your dog wins or not.


Absolutely--I have a friend with IRW setters who will not let them work birds despite their having some instinct for it. They might get a burr, or get dirty!!! What a travesty!!!

By contrast another friend who had the top sporting dog last year with a homebred Irish regularly lets her crew, including the full-coat special, roam her back forty. Happy, balanced dogs!


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## Pointgold

sterregold said:


> The hair breaks and frays more easily if you brush dry.
> 
> I would not be using Ice on Ice as a coat dressing for routine daily brushing. It is silicone based so will build up in the coat and dry it out. Do as PG suggested and put a bit of conditioner (a dog conditioner like CC's Day-to-Day, or Refurbish, or Isle of Dogs, or even just Pantene if you have it around) diluted in water in a spray bottle. Or use a non-silicone grooming spray like Eric Strickland's that is intended to maintain correct coat texture in a Golden.
> 
> As for burrs, I upland hunt my JAM dog--he finds burrs (and other things!!) but I am not going to stop letting him do what he loves to save coat! I just keep a bottle of human hair straightening serum in my gun bag. I apply it directly to the burr, work it in with my fingers and the burr tends to kind of come apart and release from the coat much better. Cowboy Magic works well for this too. I do this before I leave the field. Then when I get home I throw him in the tub to rinse out the silicone. If I know we are going to be in really burry territory I will sometimes pretreat his furnishings and that seems to help the stickage from being too terrible, and I still rinse once I get home.


 
I was informed some time ago that Ice On Ice is not silicaone based. I've not confirmed that. But, for misting, I'd prefer to use a couple of drops of an oil or cream based conditioner - you don't need much at all to help increase "slip" (the ability of the brush or comb to glide through the coat).

I do avoid silicone products, but they are great for dogs in the field - as long as you routinely wash it out. ALL products need to be washed out to prevent build-up.


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## sterregold

Pointgold said:


> I was informed some time ago that Ice On Ice is not silicaone based. I've not confirmed that. But, for misting, I'd prefer to use a couple of drops of an oil or cream based conditioner - you don't need much at all to help increase "slip" (the ability of the brush or comb to glide through the coat).
> 
> I do avoid silicone products, but they are great for dogs in the field - as long as you routinely wash it out. ALL products need to be washed out to prevent build-up.


Absolutely the wash-out is key. As my handler friends say to me, "Clean coat grows! Dirty coat breaks!" 

Ice on Ice has dimethicone in it which is a polymerized silicone. It is less thick and gloppy than the original silicones that were used in products like "The Stuff". But still silicone by a new name. That's why I prefer to just use some of the conditioner I have super-diluted like you do. Better for the coat and more affordable!!


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## CarolinaCasey

We go on an off leash walk everyday. Sometimes we go to the woods and walk on the trails. Getting dirty and picking up some burrs are a part of our life. I just want to be able to salvage the coat when we come home. This has all been very good and helpful advice. Thank you!


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## Pointgold

sterregold said:


> Absolutely. As my handler friends say to me, "Clean coat grows! Dirty coat breaks!"
> 
> Ice on Ice has dimethicone in it which is a polymerized silicone. It is less thick and gloppy than the original silicones that were used in products like "The Stuff". But still silicone by a new name.


I'd never read the ingredients, but I sure thought it did... the coat feels slippery when used (not like The Stuff, which was DANGEROUS! - Seriously, don't get any on the floor - hit that wearing socks and you're on your keister in a NY minute...). Silicone dries out the hair shaft quickly.


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## sterregold

Pointgold said:


> I'd never read the ingredients, but I sure thought it did... the coat feels slippery when used (not like The Stuff, which was DANGEROUS! - Seriously, don't get any on the floor - hit that wearing socks and you're on your keister in a NY minute...). Silicone dries out the hair shaft quickly.


OMG yes! I remember when The Stuff first came out here--people spraying it willy-nilly in arenas with polished concrete floors...you can imagine. Yikes!!!


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## Pointgold

sterregold said:


> OMG yes! I remember when The Stuff first came out here--people spraying it willy-nilly in arenas with polished concrete floors...you can imagine. Yikes!!!


We had a bather/brusher working for us one summer. She mixed up a spray bottle of The Stuff. Didn't diulute it quite enough... A client went home, and their Golden, who Erin had _liberally _sprayed with her concoction, had been laying on their wood floor. She got up, and left the rom, and Jay walked over where she'd been laying, wearing socks, and did a cartoon prat fall - flew up in the air and right down on his arse. His wife, Judy,(who always asked for The Stuff to be used) told me he croaked "Who waxed the dog???"


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## GoldenSail

Pointgold said:


> I disagree. They are dogs, _Sporting _dogs. They need to be out. Burrs happen, It's what you do to get them out that makes the difference, and tearing out a few hairs is not going to be the deciding factor as to whether your dog wins or not.


Well that's encouraging....I just hear about other people being so careful and then being told that about burrs...


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## sterregold

GoldenSail said:


> Well that's encouraging....I just hear about other people being so careful and then being told that about burrs...


Piffle! Those people are putting showing above the dog doing what it is supposed to do. Cute, and fluffy, and profuse coat are not descriptors found in the standard for a reason. If we lose function we lose type. Keep working your girl, and just take care of her coat when you come in. She'll be in true hard working condition when she is ready to show. See that dirty mess in my avatar with the pheasant? He is a GRCC National JAM, and multi BOB dog. He also won the Field dog class in 2007, and Gun Dog last summer in part because of his working fitness--the judge had us go around that big specialty ring 3 times before she let us stop and he just kept sailing. I was sucking wind, but he was hardly panting. Chasing birds never hurt him with judges who know the standard. If they were going to put a dog up based on coat alone then they are probably not a judge I want to win under.

Sorry, my pet peeve. Keeping the retrieve in the Golden retriever!


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## GoldenSail

sterregold said:


> Piffle! Those people are putting showing above the dog doing what it is supposed to do. Cute, and fluffy, and profuse coat are not descriptors found in the standard for a reason. If we lose function we lose type. Keep working your girl, and just take care of her coat when you come in. She'll be in true hard working condition when she is ready to show.
> 
> Sorry, my pet peeve. Keeping the retrieve in the Golden retriever!


Oh good! I was starting to think that if I wanted to get serious about showing her I'd have to be very careful about field training if I did it at all when I got to that point. We've got about a year though.


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## Pointgold

Trust me. My dogs are NOT kept under glass. In fact, they are PIGS! :doh: Zoom loves nothing better than mud and dirt. They all are out digging and running and rolling around in the dirt, and swimming and in general being permitted to be DOGS. They all have wonderful coats. The key, truly, (aside from genetics) and good diet, is frequent bathing. and remember - a Golden is NOT supposed to have looooong coat! They are NOT setters. A judge will better appreciate a dog in good hard condition with a coat that is obviously healthy, and shiny, of the correct texture, than one that is excessive, soft, and worn by a dog that is obviously being kept as a hot house flower.


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## hotel4dogs

I find that cowboy magic detangling gel is wonderful for removing burrs. Just rub a tiny bit in the hair around the burr and it will comb right out.


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## sterregold

hotel4dogs said:


> I find that cowboy magic detangling gel is wonderful for removing burrs. Just rub a tiny bit in the hair around the burr and it will comb right out.


Yes--really like it! But it is soooo expensive up here, that I tend to use the human stuff most often as it is usually cheaper. I used it on Win once when he had gotten into a batch of those teeny green traveller burrs. Still took me about an hour to ensure I had them all out before I washed him down.


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## JDandBigAm

Well, once again I read great advice on coat maintainence from you pros, thanks! I also use Cowboy Magic and love the product. I will get the gel on my next stop at the feed store.


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## Kmullen

My bitch will get dirty any way she can!! I love the isle of dogs Royal Jelly Shampoo and I use the Isle of Dogs ( isle thicken-styling creme) in between her baths. I like it because you can dilute it and use it as a spray in conditioner. I was using it when she was out of coat...and boy did it make a difference. After I bathe her with the Royal Jelly, I use the put a little stylin gel on my hand and rub it in and blow dry...and wa la!!

I know some handlers will use infusion 23 leave-in-conditioner...never tried it so I am not sure how it works.


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## Pointgold

kfayard said:


> My bitch will get dirty any way she can!! I love the isle of dogs Royal Jelly Shampoo and I use the Isle of Dogs ( isle yhicken-styling creme) in between her baths. I like it because you can dilute it and use it as a spray in conditioner. I was using it when she was out of coat...and boy did it make a difference. After I bathe her with the Royal Jelly, I use the put a little stylin gel on my hand and rub it in and blow dry...and wa la!!
> 
> I know some handlers will use infusion 23 leave-in-conditioner...never tried it so I am not sure how it works.


 
I use IOD products almost exclusively.


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## hotel4dogs

Tito got into a major mess of cockleburrs and his furnishings, pants and tail were just loaded with masses of them. I thought I would NEVER get them out. But just a little of the CM gel, and they literally combed right out. It travels with me in my "hunt bucket" all the time now. That, plus swimmer's ear astringent!



sterregold said:


> Yes--really like it! But it is soooo expensive up here, that I tend to use the human stuff most often as it is usually cheaper. I used it on Win once when he had gotten into a batch of those teeny green traveller burrs. Still took me about an hour to ensure I had them all out before I washed him down.


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## Kmullen

Pointgold said:


> I use IOD products almost exclusively.


Me too. I have not found a product better...or atleast I see result better with my isle of dogs products. A little pricey..but worth it.


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## sterregold

Me three on the Isle of Dogs! It is what I now use on all of my dogs who are showing or being conditioned to show. The Royal Jelly plumps up the coat on my Breeze who has a shorter,more working style coat, and I use the Evening Primrose on my boys and the Cavalier. It makes the Cavalier super-shiny, and keeps the boys' coats lying nicely without softening the textre--they both have lots of coat so do not need more volume. At first I had sticker shock, but the vendor up here gave me a bunch of samples, and it just gave results I had not achieved with anything else. Thanksfully a little goes a long way!


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## Pointgold

sterregold said:


> Me three on the Isle of Dogs! It is what I now use on all of my dogs who are showing or being conditioned to show. The Royal Jelly plumps up the coat on my Breeze who has a shorter,more working style coat, and I use the Evening Primrose on my boys and the Cavalier. It makes the Cavalier super-shiny, and keeps the boys' coats lying nicely without softening the textre--they both have lots of coat so do not need more volume. At first I had sticker shock, but the vendor up here gave me a bunch of samples, and it just gave results I had not achieved with anything else. Thanksfully a little goes a long way!


 
The key is learning to use FAR less than you would ever think. The products are very concentrated, and work better when diluted. Even those that don't instruct to dilute, I do. And they work beautifully.


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## Retrieverlover

To be honest, a dirty dog is a happy dog. I have taken a certain MBISS to the lake numerous times and off all the dogs, she's the one who came home covered in mud, dirt and who knows what. But after a good bath, she looks like she's ready to hit the show-ring. 

I own short haired dogs and even those get bathed very frequently. I also use the IOD products and love them. I have seen outstanding results in just a short period of time.


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## hotel4dogs

thanks to advice on this forum, I, too use IOD products but only when I was showing Tito. Now that he's just a dawg, I use cowboy magic products.


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## JDandBigAm

I have a full bottle of IOD Royal Jelly shampoo because it just didn't seem to do much for my dog's coat but I will try diluting it more and see what kind of results I get. He has more of the working dog type coat too and it needs to be plumped up for sure.


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## Kmullen

Happy said:


> I have a full bottle of IOD Royal Jelly shampoo because it just didn't seem to do much for my dog's coat but I will try diluting it more and see what kind of results I get. He has more of the working dog type coat too and it needs to be plumped up for sure.


Give the thickening styling creme a shot...It is awesome and plumps my girls hair right up


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## JDandBigAm

Kfayare, thanks! I'll give it a try.


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## HiTideGoldens

I didn't really notice much of a difference on Jack with the IOD Royal Jelly shampoo but his coat has always been really nice. I may start using it on Chloe though and see if it makes a difference. The coat she has is really nice coming in, there just isn't much of it yet! 

On a side note, I've found the IOD reps to be SO nice at shows. Two times they've given me a sacks full of samples to try out.


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## gabbys mom

I use IOD products too  I also feed a weekly can of sardines- he loves it and the fish oils seem to help.


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## Ash

To be honest I never brush my dogs. I comb them out thoroughly after a bath and brush up what I am going to trim but in between baths I do nothing. I feed a good food and the occasional yogurt, cottage cheese, canned food and raw bones. I have not been using any supplements for over a year. Some dogs with always carry more coat then others.


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## ggal

CarolinaCasey said:


> We feed a quality kibble and he has a nice pedigree behind him, all of which have very nice coats.


I commented to Anne about the quality of her pack's coats.... they were just gorgeous... so soft and perfect. If Gibbs has a coat anything like the girls at Anne's house, I'm sure it will be pretty.


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