# Golden wants to attack other dogs - help!



## AcesWild (Nov 29, 2008)

It is very hard to assess behavioral issues over the internet.

All I can recommend is
1. Go to the vet rule out medical before moving onto behavioral
2. Ask someone who can actually assess the dog and is qualified to help (ie a behaviorist) and most importantly who can actually see how the dog reacts.

It is very hard to offer any advice on a dog that we have never met.

Welcome to the forum I hope it works out.

Make sure to post pictures of the little trouble maker, we love pictures.


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## spruce (Mar 13, 2008)

how is she off lead when meeting strange dogs?

we have a similiar problem (not the wagging - what a con you've got!) when meeting other dogs on lead. If given the chance to meet, he's fine - but nobody wants to meet him. I'm using a harness where I can control him HOPING he'll get used to other dogs on path. 
(he's fine with our lab & old gold, and the neighbor dog)
looking forward to the suggestions


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## booklady (Mar 3, 2009)

I would recommend a front clip harness. Doesn't solve the problem, but gives you more control. Sounds like she's leash aggressive and trying to protect you. I also agree with a behaviorist.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I think it's a good idea to consult with a local expert who can watch the behavior. In the interim, I'd stop scolding her for her behavior. She's probably nervous and protective, and when she gets an angry shout from her owner, she probably gets confused and energized. She may even think you're acting aggressive and protective too!

Instead, you could try teaching her that other dogs are no big deal. You need to learn what signals she gives before her fear is triggered. When another dog is at a distance that he's visible but that your dog isn't yet having a full aggressive reaction, practice a skill like sit, and make sure you have a nice treat to reward it. Teach her that the appearance of other dogs means a fun game and a reward. The game helps focus her on you, instead of on other dogs, and the food helps calm her and make it a positive experience.

If the game and treat don't distract her, you need to practice them more without other dogs present and you need to move the other dog further away.

Hopefully that will help you work on the problem starting tomorrow, but I do think that getting a qualified trainer on board is smart. Anybody who has you hurt your dog (yanking the leash, yelling, prong collar, etc.) is dead wrong. Run the other way and find a positive trainer.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Ditto on finding help in person. Also, check out the book Fiesty Fido. It's all about leash-aggression, which is not an uncommon problem, usually stemming either from fear or frustration.


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## akmarsha (Jun 1, 2009)

Thank you so much for yyour posts! I will try the "dogs are no big deal and playing with dogs is fun" approach with her and see how it works.

Does anyone know if this could also be related to a thyroid problem? She had puppies in Feb and about 12 weeks later lost almost all of her fur and her top coat is now quite dry and brittle when it used to be soft.

Any thoughts on that as well?

Thank you!!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I believe it's common for coat quality to deteroriate after a litter b/c so much of the nutrients, etc. are going to the puppies, plus the hormonal changes, etc. Coat should return to normal in time, but good to run a thyroid panel since it's such a common problem in Goldens.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

!2 weeks post whelp is average for a bitch to lose coat - they look like chemo patients. Add to that her recent spay (anesthesia causes coat blow) and what you describe is very normal. Regular baths, good nutrition, and time will bring it back.


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## Buds Pal (Jul 31, 2010)

This is so similar to our 6 year old nuetered male, Buddy. He is an awesome dog except for this quirk. He will see another dog coming, lay down and look so friendly, wag his tail and just sucker them in. As they come up, he attacks. We warn people that he is not friendly and they always just keep coming because he looks so sweet. He has some dog friends that he just loves and is very submissive to them and they play very well.

He was attacked several times at the dog park when he was younger, plus he is a recue dog;we got him when he was about 1 1/2, so not sure of his puppyhood. It is becoming increasingly hard to take him for a walk. I have been reading the advise on the "look and treat". Will be trying this....Have to do something. He has no aggression with people or children and is extremely well behaved and obedient.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

A dog that is not fixed can set off a fixed dog to attack. Dogs can smell if dog is fixed or not


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Tippykayak gave you good advice.

My boy has fear aggression. He is great with dogs he has always known but with new dogs he has a problem. 
We really focused on his obedience when around other dogs and praised with treats and had a big party when he ignores them.
Tonight my husband took him to the vet for vacs, he sat in the waiting room for the first time in years and Gunner was good.When a new large dog would come in the door, Dan would get Gunner's attention , have him sit and then praise like crazy. It worked.. no fights broke out. : )


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## audreyannlow (Mar 5, 2007)

My oldest dog Aspen was severely dog aggressive although I worked on the problem before he got as bad as his sister (different owner), who broke a prong collar to maul a larger dog. I think it was largely environmental for Aspen as the cat who played a big role in raising him was not the most dog-friendly creature.

First, I got him under complete off leash control with help from duck-scented bumpers and dogtra. I practiced outside the dog park. Pretty soon, he wouldn't even notice the other dogs, and within a month, he was registered as a therapy dog, enjoying work alongside cats and dogs alike. He's since regressed for very justified reasons - a vicious lab attacked our little dog after I told him all was well (the lab was leaving the park on a leash that broke). I don't know if I'll ever completely regain his trust. He's still fine himself, but he's got an imaginary bubble around "his" puppy that only cats are permitted to enter without proper introduction.

One thing you may find is that on-leash greetings during walks will be the last thing to go smoothly. Just avoid those confrontations until you're a lot farther along. It may be easier to have your dog stay (while you feed treats) while the other person walks past.


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## sdain31y (Jul 5, 2010)

On the look and treat training, ensure that the treats are very high value. She's got to want the treat more then she wants to "get" the other dog. Take a variety to find out what she really likes. 

Also, I agree find a trainer/behaviorist. They often have dogs they can use in the training, so you know she's safe and another dog's reaction isn't encouraging the behavior.

I had a beautiful english setter that was as gentle and sweet as she could be. But when other dogs started sniffing her, especially near her girl parts she turned into a snarling demon. I once told the owner of a very large doberman that she wasn't friendly to other dogs, but he told me that his dog "loved everyone and just wanted to be friends" as he let him start to sniff her rear. She pinned him in about a nanosecond and the man grabbed his dog up muttering she'd hurt his dog's feelings. Other then chuckling a bit at the sight of this 100 pound dobe being pinned by my little 50 pound setter, I didn't say a word as we walked off. I TOLD him she didn't like other dogs! Duh!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

sdain31y said:


> On the look and treat training, ensure that the treats are very high value. She's got to want the treat more then she wants to "get" the other dog. Take a variety to find out what she really likes.


I agree that high value treats are useful, but even if the dog isn't food driven, you can use the habit of attention and obedience, rather than using the treat as a bribe. You don't want to set up a situation where the dog has a choice of paying attention to a treat or to another dog. In a bidding war, you're going to lose at the absolute worst time. It also teaches the dog to work for treats, not for you.

That's why distance is key. You want your dog to be aware of the other dog, but to be far enough away that you're able to hold his attention with yourself (not the treat) and to reward with the treat once you have his attention. You don't want to be using treats to get attention.

That felt a little unclear, but I hope you get my drift. Treats should be reinforcers, not the focus of attention. High value treats are great, because they provide high value reinforcement, but don't ever get into a bidding war for your dog's attention.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

I agree, seek out someone who is experienced with this in large breeds.

Interestingly, dogs that have fear aggression usually send mixed signals to other dogs such as tail wagging and then growling, or sometimes both at the same time.

As practice you can put her on a harness and tie her to a stationary object, like a tree. This will help to reduce the risk of you letting go and to reduce tension that you might be passing on to her, and to allow you to focus on doing obedience tasks with her. The harness will prevent injury. Stand beside her with the treat, asking for sit/stay/down/whatever. Meanwhile have a strange dog that you know will just ignore you walk by, quite far away, just enough for your dog to see her/him out of the corner of her eye. You can put the tree in-between to start with and then bring the other dog closer and closer if things are going well, just walking back and forth ignoring you completely. If she becomes aggressive it's probably best to ignore the behavour and have her refocus on you. Stay upbeat and confident. I would work with a professional if you actually want to practice being with other dogs in close confines.

Our guide dog was often used as the "bait" dog because she was great at ignoring dogs that showed anxiety. She rehabed many fearful dogs, but always under the watchful eye of a professional.


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## sameli102 (Aug 23, 2009)

tippykayak said:


> I agree that high value treats are useful, but even if the dog isn't food driven, you can use the habit of attention and obedience, rather than using the treat as a bribe. You don't want to set up a situation where the dog has a choice of paying attention to a treat or to another dog. In a bidding war, you're going to lose at the absolute worst time. It also teaches the dog to work for treats, not for you.
> 
> That's why distance is key. You want your dog to be aware of the other dog, but to be far enough away that you're able to hold his attention with yourself (not the treat) and to reward with the treat once you have his attention. You don't want to be using treats to get attention.
> 
> That felt a little unclear, but I hope you get my drift. Treats should be reinforcers, not the focus of attention. High value treats are great, because they provide high value reinforcement, but don't ever get into a bidding war for your dog's attention.


I am so glad to hear someone say that! I have had my dog to a behavior trainer that wants me to put a very high value treat in his face to lure his attention back to me. Yes it works at a distance but as soon as the dog gets the slightest bit closer he practically uses his nose to push my hand away to GET IT OUT OF HIS FACE. When it comes down to the treat or the other dog the other dog will win out every time.


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## Buds Pal (Jul 31, 2010)

*Thank You from Buds Pal*

thank you to all who replied. We are working on the look and treat and look and love. Actually today on a walk, two not so nice looking dogs were on a rope and they started barking at him. We were a distance away however Bud's "Bring it on" started. We immediately were able to divert his attention, we turned around and he immediately forgot about the dogs who were still barking. Thanks again and we will keep ya posted.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

sameli102 said:


> I am so glad to hear someone say that! I have had my dog to a behavior trainer that wants me to put a very high value treat in his face to lure his attention back to me. Yes it works at a distance but as soon as the dog gets the slightest bit closer he practically uses his nose to push my hand away to GET IT OUT OF HIS FACE. When it comes down to the treat or the other dog the other dog will win out every time.


The trainer is not doing it properly then. If your dog can't keep his focus on you (or the treat), the dog is too close and you are moving to fast in the program.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

sameli102 said:


> I am so glad to hear someone say that! I have had my dog to a behavior trainer that wants me to put a very high value treat in his face to lure his attention back to me. Yes it works at a distance but as soon as the dog gets the slightest bit closer he practically uses his nose to push my hand away to GET IT OUT OF HIS FACE. When it comes down to the treat or the other dog the other dog will win out every time.


Luring is pretty common among people who use food, and it can play an important role. However, it can quickly become a crutch if you aren't careful. I think bidding war scenarios are a bad idea for that reason. I see lots of people whose dogs end up working for the cookie, and if the dog looks over and the cookie doesn't seem more interesting than the distraction, the dog blows off the handler. 

If you're setting up a training situation, you can control the distance to and the nature of the distraction/aggression stimulus, and you can teach the dog that giving you his attention is gratifying and rewarding. If you can't get his attention to begin with, you can control the situation and move further away from the distraction.

My fear is that if I use a treat to lure a dog's attention each time, he'll end up working for the treat, and I'll be unable to compel his attention if I'm not holding one. When I ask the dog to work for _me_, I can reward him with praise, with a toy, or with a treat, so I make use of all kinds of reinforcers, but always paired with me, so working for me becomes constantly rewarding.


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