# Negative E-collar Reports



## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Right now, we are working with a Standard Schnauzer who is afraid to move. His owner tried to teach him STAY with an e collar under the advice of a local trainer who calls the e collar the "invisible leash" and claims he can train any dog in 7 days( this guy does a great business). They put down tempting treats like cheese, and got him for moving. Now, he is shut down and afraid to move at all. He pees submissively. He was, by the owner report, a cheerful exuberant puppy before with no elimination issues. This puppy came to work with us through his breeder's recommendation.

We train more than 100 dogs weekly at our thriving, busy training center, and do not advise the use of the e collar for pet dogs, by people who have not received expert guidance in how to condition a dog to a collar, and especially in puppies.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Ljilly28 said:


> Right now, we are working with a Standard Schnauzer who is afraid to move. His owner tried to teach him STAY with an e collar under the advice of a local trainer who calls the e collar the "invisible leash" and claims he can train any dog in 7 days( this guy does a great business). They put down tempting treats like cheese, and got him for moving. Now, he is shut down and afraid to move at all. He pees submissively. He was, by the owner report, a cheerful exuberant puppy before with no elimination issues. This puppy came to work with us through his breeder's recommendation.
> 
> We train more than 100 dogs weekly at our thriving, busy training center, and do not advise the use of the e collar for pet dogs, by people who have not received expert guidance in how to condition a dog to a collar, and especially in puppies.


I agree that is not an appropriate way to teach STAY. I throw food on the floor, etc. If she were to move, I would gently put her back as many times as it takes, and repeat. There are ways to screw up STAYS without an ecollar.

People often recommend going to a pro to learn how to use the collar. I took a different path, by researching it for weeks, talking to people I know who use them, and ordering a DVD from Mike Lardy. That said, I want to make it clear that I don't think it's for everyone. Not everyone will use it correctly, due to fear, poor timing, lack of training on the basics, etc.

Have you actually used an Ecollar...........?


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

The main problem I have with e collars is with people who get frustrated with their pet dog, head down to the store and buy an e collar, and experiment. Though we do not get many of those on our dog-passionate forum, it is so common in every day life with pet dog training.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Nairb, can you try the search function? I don't really want to link to people's threads, but if you search for "e-collar" or "shock collar," a lot of what you get isn't the long back-and-forths. A lot of the results include people who've decided to stop using them and the reasons why: the collar malfunctioned, the person didn't like watching their dog flinch, the dog didn't seem to feel it at low settings but yelped at high settings, the dog stopped moving after the first shock and wouldn't move again until the collar was removed, etc. Those are all examples of things I've read on GRF.

And if you remember usernames of people who discuss using e-collars positively in one thread, you can sometimes find them asking for advice in other threads about _exactly_ the side-effects the research says you can get with one, like dogs shutting down or showing displaced aggression.

I'm not going to link to call people out either way, but the search function will demonstrate plenty of these threads.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I had a client last summer who had used an e-collar with a professional trainer to get their dog to stop jumping and to obey basic commands. I say "professional" simply because they paid him or her, not because the training was particularly effective. It did not work because the dog became remote-wise within a few days. If he wasn't wearing the collar or you weren't holding the remote, he learned to ignore you. I'm sure a better trainer could have gotten better results with the device, but the family was never really happy shocking him in the first place, so we taught him with careful withholding and positive reinforcement, which worked really well.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Tippy,

That's great, because I was hoping to hear from the people you're referring to. I don't recall reading those examples, but perhaps they'll chime in......

Again, I'm interested in hearing from people who have actually used an Ecollar, and have had unsatisfactory results. 


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

Nairb said:


> Tippy,
> 
> That's great, because I was hoping to hear from the people you're referring to. I don't recall reading those examples, but perhaps they'll chime in......
> 
> ...


Me too. 

Also would like to point out that someone mentioned that there could be a connection to my previous dogs reaction to thunder and wind AND the collar. You all can be rest assured that the dogs reaction never worsened (he had the issue before the collar) and if I would had been on this forum back then, I would had noticed the MANY threads on this issue and would had tried the thunder shirt like MANY recommend. I know now this is a pretty common issue in goldens.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Edited: I really should just let this one go.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

I'm hoping this thread stays up, so we can give all of the members who have had negative experiences using an ecollar a chance to weigh in.

Please don't torpedo the thread!


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

I don't have personal experience - my neighbor has an e-collar for her husky, who is one of Max's best friends. We've talked about her experience, and she admits to "accidentally having it on high" one day, and shocking Keno to the point where when she puts it on him, he will not leave her side. I've seen this - he sits, and won't move. 

She had someone train her in the use of the collar, says she didn't realize that it was on the high setting. I don't know anything about these collars, but I thought I'd share her story.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Lots of luck. Already on page two and not one response has been in response to what you have requested. :doh:
Really hoping the folks that you are asking for input from actually reply. :crossfing


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## Lou Castle (Mar 16, 2011)

I'm hoping to see some FIRST PERSON responses too. So far we have nothing but several SECOND HAND anecdotes in spite of a request for information only from _"those who have actually used an Ecollar and have had unsatisfactory results."_ I guess they think that their agenda trumps the request for specific information from a board member. Interestingly, the last thread that this spun off from, was closed because it moved away from the topic. And here we have the first several posts doing just that right off the bat! 

SECOND HAND reports of having worked with dogs that allegedly had Ecollar issues IS NOT appropriate and it is off topic. If the owners of those dogs had made the posts, then we'd be headed down the right road. 

And despite the plea to omit _"the debate [about] the appropriateness of Ecollars"_ we STILL have a couple of people who, based on results, cannot follow simple instructions, one of them a global moderator who just can't seem to resist the urge to prolong the debate! And in another post that same global moderator just can't contain herself. She's got to go off on another rant about Ecollars. 

Ya think you folks can keep this on topic?


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## Lou Castle (Mar 16, 2011)

tippykayak said:


> Nairb, can you try the search function? I don't really want to link to people's threads, but if you search for "e-collar" or "shock collar," a lot of what you get isn't the long back-and-forths. A lot of the results include people who've decided to stop using them and the reasons why: the collar malfunctioned, the person didn't like watching their dog flinch, the dog didn't seem to feel it at low settings but yelped at high settings, the dog stopped moving after the first shock and wouldn't move again until the collar was removed, etc. Those are all examples of things I've read on GRF.
> 
> And if you remember usernames of people who discuss using e-collars positively in one thread, you can sometimes find them asking for advice in other threads about _exactly_ the side-effects the research says you can get with one, like dogs shutting down or showing displaced aggression.
> 
> I'm not going to link to call people out either way, but the search function will demonstrate plenty of these threads.


If you have those posts, please start a new thread to discuss them. This isn't the place for it. The OP has asked for FIRST PERSON stories, not links and not second hand anecdotes. When you start that thread, and I seriously doubt that you will, primarily because those posts either don't exist at all or there are a VERY small number of them, Please link it to this thread. 

I don't think it's appropriate for you to ask others to do research to support YOUR position. We don't think these posts exist and you think they do. Wouldn't that place the burden to show them on you? You say that that you are not going to _"call people out,"_ but since they've made their stories public, they've already outed themselves. All you'd be doing is bringing the information to a new thread. If someone didn't tell them about this, they'd probably never even know.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

I figured that since millions of people use e-collars we would have at least a few. Generally, those who are dissatisfied with a product or service are far more likely to have the desire to warn others. My hope is that this thread will remain open, so it may be found in future searches by people wishing to tell their story. 


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

If just like to mention that in this argument I have no bias whatsoever, although i do not feel i need them, in some theoretical situations i would use them, but I would like to say that I have heard several reports of people stopping using them due to malfunction, morality (they felt that the dog really didn't like it), and quite Afew where the training issues they wanted to solve by using these collars was not solved. I also remember a dog from my coop that had a serious rash, it was almost like razor burn on crack, from the probes. 


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Tuco said:


> If just like to mention that in this argument I have no bias whatsoever, although i do not feel i need them, in some theoretical situations i would use them, but I would like to say that I have heard several reports of people stopping using them due to malfunction, morality (they felt that the dog really didn't like it), and quite Afew where the training issues they wanted to solve by using these collars was not solved. I also remember a dog from my coop that had a serious rash, it was almost like razor burn on crack, from the probes.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Thanks for bumping the thread, Tuco, but that's not exactly what we're looking for here.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Wow, I feel like I just got taken to the woodshed. If you read my response, I believe I said that I've seen the results of my neighbor's mismanagement of the collar. I don't use an e-collar, but I thought MAYBE my observations of my friend's dog might have value.

Obviously not. Back to your regularly scheduled argument.


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## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

We are closing this thread whilst we review it for possible board rule violations.


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