# 12 Week old with Liver Shunt - Need Advice



## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Have you talked to your Vet about what her special needs may be?


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## k0205 (Jan 8, 2010)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> Have you talked to your Vet about what her special needs may be?


Yes I have asked my vet but you know they aren't going to be totally informed as someone on here who actually has been living with it. My vet said special vegetarian diet, supplements and tylan powder. Surgery if you could afford it but that cost $4,000. I can't afford that but I would be open to giving her a home if it's not going to turn into a huge expensive proposition. I can't afford it but hate the thought of them putting her down if it's just a matter of diet and meds.


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

A quick Google search for Care of Dogs with Liver Shunts yielded some links: 

Liver Shunts in Dogs

There are more if you Google it.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I haven't ever heard about a vegetarian diet. Years ago I had a girl with a liver shunt and we put her on a low protein commercially available food. She lived a very good life until she was about 6, when her liver failed and she had to be helped to the bridge. 

At around 2 or 3, their vet told them it would be okay to put her on a regular food with less than 24% protein. I wouldn't have, but they did and she seemed to be okay. We knew she was never going to have a long life.

I would think you could make a good homemade food for her.

I found this to be helpful:

Liver Shunts in Dogs

Liver Shunt Diet


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

If surgery is an option, it is in the best interest of the dog to have the surgery. 

Could you suggest to the vet's office to contact Golden rescue for the puppy? Rescue's can take the puppy and get the surgery done to give her the best option. 

Good as Gold rescue is in Illinois, I would really encourage the vet to contact them.

As Good As Gold


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## k0205 (Jan 8, 2010)

mylissyk said:


> If surgery is an option, it is in the best interest of the dog to have the surgery.
> 
> Could you suggest to the vet's office to contact Golden rescue for the puppy? Rescue's can take the puppy and get the surgery done to give her the best option.
> 
> ...


I am aware of Good as Gold and know them well. I have dealt with them before. 
They will not take a dog from an owner surrender when the breeder has offered to take the dog back.

Also: Surgery is not always in the best interest of the dog as they do not have liver function so they can not process
anesthesia appropriately and many of them die in surgery. If they do survive the surgery there are many post 
operative complications. It's not a fix-all to have surgery. They do not know what percentage of
blood the liver is actually processing so there is no way to know until you open them 

My vet said in his 25+ years of experience, he has seen many live a full life with a special diet and meds.
My question was what is involved with keeping a dog like this and the day to day issues or expenses.


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

I would think that if I knew that the vet recommended surgery for her that I personally could not afford to absorb the cost of, as much as my heart would want to adopt her, I would let someone else who could afford the medical costs to do so.


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## k0205 (Jan 8, 2010)

Tahnee GR said:


> I haven't ever heard about a vegetarian diet. Years ago I had a girl with a liver shunt and we put her on a low protein commercially available food. She lived a very good life until she was about 6, when her liver failed and she had to be helped to the bridge.
> 
> At around 2 or 3, their vet told them it would be okay to put her on a regular food with less than 24% protein. I wouldn't have, but they did and she seemed to be okay. We knew she was never going to have a long life.
> 
> ...


That's good to know. I know there can be varying degrees of how much of the liver function is compromised depending on how the shunt was formed, etc. It can be only a loss of 5% or it can be 95% loss of blood flow. Each dog is different. Thank you for the links.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I should mention that they constantly monitored her liver numbers, which is why I think their vet thought it would be okay to go up in protein. Now, this was many many years ago-prior to the mid-90's for sure. I am sure that care and food and knowledge of this condition has improved since then.

She stayed with me until she was almost a year old. Her numbers had stabilized and she was doing well, although she was small for a Golden and did not have the coat her littermates had. A friend of a friend heard about her, wanted to meet her and it was mutual love at first sight  In Abby's case, surgery was not a good option unfortunately, or I would have tried it


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## k0205 (Jan 8, 2010)

Tahnee GR said:


> I should mention that they constantly monitored her liver numbers, which is why I think their vet thought it would be okay to go up in protein. Now, this was many many years ago-prior to the mid-90's for sure. I am sure that care and food and knowledge of this condition has improved since then.
> 
> She stayed with me until she was almost a year old. Her numbers had stabilized and she was doing well, although she was small for a Golden and did not have the coat her littermates had. A friend of a friend heard about her, wanted to meet her and it was mutual love at first sight  In Abby's case, surgery was not a good option unfortunately, or I would have tried it


Yes, surgery is not always an option depending on the age/health of the dog. This is a 12 week old puppy. I don't even know if they would do the surgery now or wait until she is older. I would expect that they would want to check her numbers fairly often. That would make sense. That way you can see how the diet is working for her. This little girl doesn't look too healthy but I'm comparing her to my boy when he was 12 weeks. He was much bigger. Here's a picture of her, she looks small to me too. I know of other goldens that had liver issues and they were smaller too.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

I think it would be wise for her to be seen by a specialist. I've seen rescues that were able to live w/ their shunts, those that had successful corrective surgery & those where surgery wasn't an option and/or didn't work which resulted in a young death.

So the owners don't want her, the breeder wants her back (based on your statement regarding As Good As Gold) & the vet is offering her for adoption? In addition to the health issues, I would be concerned if considering adopting that you don't find yourself in a legal battle if a contract was voided.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

If the breeder wants her back, is there a reason they aren't giving her back? Did they sign a contract?


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

As Good as Gold is a wonderful rescue here in Illinois. They do take dogs with medical needs. PM me and I can point you in there direction if you're interested.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*reply*

What vet is looking for a home for her?
Has As Good As Gold been contacted?


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## k0205 (Jan 8, 2010)

Tahnee GR said:


> If the breeder wants her back, is there a reason they aren't giving her back? Did they sign a contract?


Yes, they signed a contract and the breeder says that if she can't find a special needs home for her she will put her down. They would rather find a home for her than take the chance the breeder will just put her down and not even try to find a home for her.


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## k0205 (Jan 8, 2010)

Karen519 said:


> What vet is looking for a home for her?
> Has As Good As Gold been contacted?


Yes and they don't take owner surrenders when the breeder is willing to take the dog back.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

k0205 said:


> Yes and they don't take owner surrenders when the breeder is willing to take the dog back.


Even when the breeder has already said it would euthanize rather than attempt treatment? That doesn't sound right. Poor pup stuck in limbo.


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## k0205 (Jan 8, 2010)

SheetsSM said:


> Even when the breeder has already said it would euthanize rather than attempt treatment? That doesn't sound right. Poor pup stuck in limbo.


The breeder said she would try and place with a special needs home but if she couldn't, she would euthanize.

I guess the family has decided to keep her so I am happy about that. 
Thank you everyone for the input. I hope she's ok. I told them to let the family know that if they change their mind about her to call me again.


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## wdadswell (Dec 17, 2015)

Thank you for trying to save that sweet pup. Not many people would step up, in that situation. Hopefully, the family will contact you, if they change their mind.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Ko*



wdadswell said:


> Thank you for trying to save that sweet pup. Not many people would step up, in that situation. Hopefully, the family will contact you, if they change their mind.


Thank you so much for trying to help her. Glad family has decided to keep her!


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## k0205 (Jan 8, 2010)

Well, Now they don't want her again. I will probably take her until I can
find a home for her.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

k0205 said:


> Well, Now they don't want her again. I will probably take her until I can find a home for her.


 Wait that doesn't make any sense? Why are you looking for a home for the pup then? Previously you made it sound like you were taking the pup into your own home. What's going on? I'm having a very hard time understanding what you are doing...


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Just make sure you understand what you are taking on. Finding a home for a special needs puppy, one with the desire and means to do what it takes to keep her alive, can be difficult to impossible.


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## k0205 (Jan 8, 2010)

Alaska7133 said:


> Wait that doesn't make any sense? Why are you looking for a home for the pup then? Previously you made it sound like you were taking the pup into your own home. What's going on? I'm having a very hard time understanding what you are doing...


What's going on? .... Well, I came on here to find out what is involved with caring for a dog with a liver shunt. I did not say I was definitely taking her. I was asking what is involved before I said yes. I prefer to be educated about the obligation I would be accepting and people who have lived with this are the best resource. I think I have been pretty clear with what I was doing from the first post. 

What happened was they said they decided to keep her and were not going to give her away so end of story. Well, that did not last long.

What's going on NOW is they have decided to let her go. They have another puppy coming from the breeder and they can't take care of 2 puppies. She has to mature before the full effect of the disease are known and right now it's not much of an expense. I will take her and keep her and see how it goes. If it's more than I can afford, I will find a special needs home for her. My friend is a golden breeder for 25-30 years and has many resources to place special needs puppies. She's done it 2 times before and it took about 3 days each time. 

In my opinion, keeping her alive would be the best outcome for her so if that means she comes with me for a while and then goes to a forever home that's fine with me. I'm hoping it works out well here with me. The alternative is they put her down. 

I'm open to any other ideas if you have any.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Has this pup been to a specialist yet? If you want answers that's what I would be seeking vice turning to the internet. Hate to this pup get shuffled around when whoever has her comes to the determination that it's too hard. I know SGRR transferred one of their liver shunt rescues to As Good As Gold who in turn had her in with specialists & was able to provide a life-saving surgery.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Does she possibly have other issues too? It might be just the picture, but to me her body seems out of proportion to her body - possibly dwarfism? Could be just the picture..


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## k0205 (Jan 8, 2010)

cubbysan said:


> Does she possibly have other issues too? It might be just the picture, but to me her body seems out of proportion to her body - possibly dwarfism? Could be just the picture..


My vet is the one who has diagnosed her. I asked him about her condition and he said the photo isn't really a good one. He felt she was a very well bred dog and that this was her only issue as of right now. The liver shunt usually causes issues that can be treated by removing the ammonia from the blood, which is what the liver is not doing. Once she was treated with this medication, she's better and having no symptoms so that's the main indicator that it's a liver shunt, along with blood work and my vet's 30 years of experience. He didn't see any other issues but she's only 12 weeks old.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Ok, I thought you had taken the picture.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Not sure if you saw this thread

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...ology-breed-standard/125305-liver-shunts.html


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

cubbysan said:


> Does she possibly have other issues too? It might be just the picture, but to me her body seems out of proportion to her body - possibly dwarfism? Could be just the picture..


Actually, she looks "unthrifty." Puppies who have a serious illness often have that "out of proportion" look to them. My liver shunt girl definitely did.

I saw that look in the picture of a puppy a FB friend of mine was getting from a local "breeder." He died right before they were to pick him up


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## k0205 (Jan 8, 2010)

cubbysan said:


> Ok, I thought you had taken the picture.


No, the vet took it when she was in the office and the owners asked
him to try and find someone to take her. He had the forethought to
take a picture to send out with his email to me. 

I think she looks small and from what I know about liver issues, the
dogs can be small, She's not quite 12 weeks and only weighs 10 pounds.
That seems really small to me but I had a big golden so I could be
way off on what they should weigh by then.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

k0205 said:


> No, the vet took it when she was in the office and the owners asked
> him to try and find someone to take her. He had the forethought to
> take a picture to send out with his email to me.
> 
> ...


Actually, 10 pounds for 12 weeks isn't too bad, all things considered. It's small but I wouldn't have been surprised to have learned she was even smaller.


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## k0205 (Jan 8, 2010)

Just to give everyone and update on this beautiful little girl~! I took her from the couple that was going to euthanize her. They didn't ask me one question about my life or where she was going to be living except to ask if I had kids. Horrible people. They just handed her over and never thought about it again. Well anyway, I took her to Good as Gold Rescue and they already had her surgery done and she's recovering. She's living with a foster mom right now until she's all healed and ready for a forever home. I'm very happy they agreed to help with her care. Otherwise I don't know how well she would have been doing. Thank you!


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Fabulous news! So glad the rescue was able to step in and the pup will have a wonderful life-thank you for getting this little one into safe hands.


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## wdadswell (Dec 17, 2015)

You saved a precious life!! Thank you!!!!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

As Good as Gold is where I got my rescue Charlie from and is the rescue I support annually. They are very dedicated to helping goldens in need and finding the right home! They're very thorough in their home checks, etc. You did a very good thing for this pup!!! Thank you.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Thank you!*



k0205 said:


> Just to give everyone and update on this beautiful little girl~! I took her from the couple that was going to euthanize her. They didn't ask me one question about my life or where she was going to be living except to ask if I had kids. Horrible people. They just handed her over and never thought about it again. Well anyway, I took her to Good as Gold Rescue and they already had her surgery done and she's recovering. She's living with a foster mom right now until she's all healed and ready for a forever home. I'm very happy they agreed to help with her care. Otherwise I don't know how well she would have been doing. Thank you!


Thank you for saving this little girl's life, by taking her to As Good As Gold Golden Retriever Rescue. They are AMAZING! I've seen them at events near where I live in Woodridge, Illinois. We would love to hear updates, if you receive any!


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

You are awesome!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I just realized that I've been seeing updates about this little girl on facebook and in the As Good as Gold newsletter. Her foster mom (who is amazing with puppies) lives next door to the foster mom I got Charlie from. She used to watch Charlie as well, while his foster mom was at work. This girl is going to have a good life. She's in a terrific home right now


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Jenn*



jennretz said:


> I just realized that I've been seeing updates about this little girl on facebook and in the As Good as Gold newsletter. Her foster mom (who is amazing with puppies) lives next door to the foster mom I got Charlie from. She used to watch Charlie as well, while his foster mom was at work. This girl is going to have a good life. She's in a terrific home right now


Jenn: Thanks for this update!!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Another update on this little girl. She had to have emergency surgery to remove 3 feet of her intestines after they twisted a few weeks ago, but is recovering and potentially going to her new home soon pending a good report from the vet.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

That video is precious.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Jenn*

Jenn:

Thank you so much for the update on Addie. Sorry to hear this happened to her, but so happy they were able to save her.

The video about Addie, Shagg,y and the other Goldens that the fund has helped is so touching, had lots of tears in my eyes. I could love anyone of those sweet dogs!! AsGood As Gold is an amazing rescue, but you knew that, because your Charlie came from them!!


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Addie is so cute, hope she recovers from her surgery without any problems. 

Great video, wonderful to see so many Goldens receiving the medical care they needed so they can enjoy a full life. 

As Good as Gold GR Rescue is a wonderful group.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I have to admit I got teary watching that video


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