# weakness in back end/neurologist



## BeauShel

I dont have any answers for you but I hope that the neurologist can help Toby. My Beau's back end problems were caused from his seizures and the pheno. It is so hard to see them get old.


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## paula bedard

Sorry, poor Toby. My Sam was over-sized, though thin, and had a progressive neurological condition that caused weakness is his back end also. He too had seizures and was on pheno but I was told the condition was neurological. I didn't take him to a neurologist after the Vet diagnosed him, as he was in pretty good condition, just the occasional toe drag. He also had arthritis in his hips, which is what I thought the toe dragging was a sign of. Sam also had a hoarseness/occasional cough which I was told was also a sign of the neurological condition which could lead to his throat becoming paralyzed. I thought about surgery for his throat by he was so old I didn't want to put him through that...and it was not a guaranteed fix. Sam lived for a year and half with his neuro condition without much progression at all, I used a harness on bad days but fortunately, they were few. When Sam did pass though, it was a from an ME which was caused by the neuro condition. One day he was fine and the next he was most obviously not, he could not walk straight and was very weak. I went immediately to the Vet who diagnosed pneumonia and chest xrays showed he also had a tumor in his chest...no outward signs of cancer or pain from this, Thank Goodness! He did not have any signs that something was going on. On Thursday he was great..he'd even been acting perkier in recent months...on Friday he was quiet and by Friday afternoon I knew something was wrong and took him to the Vet.


I hope this hasn't frightened you...just wanted to relay my experience with this condition. Sam had other issues going on too, seizures and the as yet undiagnosed tumor. Hugs to you and Toby.


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## hotel4dogs

Thanks. Toby has a calcified disk in his lower spine, and I think it's causing the biggest part of his problems, which is why we go to the chiro.
He's been getting slowly weaker for over 2 years, so I don't really think that it's something progressive other than old age (fingers crossed). 
If it will help him, I'd be glad to take him. But I don't want to throw money away for nothing, either.


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## Karen519

*Barb*

Barb

I am so sorry to hear Toby is having problems.

Really have no advice-just want you to know I care.

Karen

Did a Google and came up with these:
http://www.google.com/search?q=Caus...ox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7SUNA
Results 1 - 10 of about 110,000 for Causes of Weakness in Dog's Back Legs. (0.24 seconds) 
Search ResultsMotion and Motor ProblemsMuscle mass on back legs and over her rear end seems to be diminishing (visual ... He suddenly experienced weakness in hind legs,difficulty raising himself on ... dog, they will sometimes cause significant weakness in the rear limbs. ...
www.vetinfo.com › Dogs › Ageing Issues - Cached
Ask the Veterinarian: Sudden Paralysis of Left Rear Leg, energetic ...Could it be a Disk or back problem that could also be causing this? and ... Another condition of small dogs, especially young ones, that will cause ... the dogs initially develop a weakness in the hind limbs that can look like lameness. ...
en.allexperts.com › Ask the Veterinarian - Cached
Google Answers: Dog with hind leg problemsDec 9, 2005 ... Q: Dog with hind leg problems ( Answered 4 out of 5 stars ..... Taking the supplements with aspirin may cause problems in ... DM presents itself with waxing and waning of the following symptoms: *hindquarter weakness, ...
answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/603620.html - Cached
WikiAnswers - What disease in dogs cause immobility in hind legsHind legs give out in dogs? Nerve damage in dogs hind legs? What are analogies for immobility? What causes weakness in hind legs of dogs? ...
wiki.answers.com/.../What_disease_in_dogs_cause_immobility_in_hind_legs - Cached
Back Pain, Leg Weakness Signs of Nerve-Related SyndromeThese tests are often necessary, since there are several other conditions which cause back pain and hind leg weakness in dogs, and these causes need to be ...
www.terrificpets.com/articles/10267965.asp - Cached


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## AmberSunrise

I have no experience with Toby's exact problem but accupunture helped my Rowdy a lot ...


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## Duke's Momma

It is hard seeing them fail even slightly, isn't it?

I guess my suggestion is if he's not on an anti inflam i.e. meticam or rimadyl or something of that order, that might would be an option. They are hard on their kidneys eventually, but at this point as long as it makes his quality of life better - what the hey! Also, I would suggest putting rugs down everywhere. When Duke had his knee surgery we started doing that and as he's gotten older (realizing that 8 really isn't that old, he does have some issues) I'm glad we kept them down. And, a very soft bed.

Other than those suggestions, I'm not sure what else to tell you. Acupuncture is also an option for more comfort. Good luck with your boy and I hope you find something or a combination of somethings that help.


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## paula bedard

Barb, I also had Sam on aspirin. He tolerated aspirin much easier than he did the prescribed arthritis meds. I also massaged him daily. He LOVED having his muscles kneaded and it did seem to help with atrophy and weakness.


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## Finn's Fan

Barb, I took Cody to a CSU neurologist at age ten, when he was dragging a bit and occasionally crossing his hind legs. He was diagnosed with degenerative myelopathy, which is an incurable neurological disease sort of like human MS. He was on lots of Vitamin E as a result, and he had a doggie wheelchair, but he never did become paralyzed. Since Toby isn't even 12 yet, I'd personally vote for a neuro visit, if for nothing else than to have the vet say "this is simply the progression of old age" and not something you have to fret about medically. Give the old boy a smooch from me, would you please? Here is a picture of my Cody's brother Toby at age sixteen.


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## hotel4dogs

thanks for the replies everyone! 
I'm thinking there's no harm (other than financial) in having him checked out. 
My own neuromuscular specialist said that small doses of mestinon might help a dog with DM, on an experimental basis, so if that were the diagnosis then maybe we could see if it helped him.
Interestingly, fish oil has helped him more than anything else. He is on one rimadyl per day, which also helps.


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## honeysmum

Sorry to hear about Toby's problem, I cant really help but Jade has back end issues due to arthritis in her spine but since she has been on Metacam she has been a different girl and can even run when the mind takes her so perhaps that might be an option for Toby.
It is so hard seeing them get older I hope that you find a solution for Toby's condition.


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## hotel4dogs

I guess that's the reason I even thought about the neurologist...Toby has "very little arthritis" according to recent xrays, in either his spine or his hips. The only thing they did find is the calcified disk. 
But the rimadyl does seem to help him, so pain must be a factor, too.
Yes, it's so sad to see them get old.


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## coppers-mom

Hi Barb!

You know my guy's history so here are the options I am considering.
(This if for anyone who doesn't know about Toby's alter-ego, Copper). I am afraid to try fish oil or rimadyl or deramaxx due to his pancreatitis issues so am looking for another way to help him with his arthrititis and muscle weakness issues.

I am going to get Glycoflex III (a chondriotin/glucosamine supplement)based on a friend's recommendation and the good reviews on here. I don't believe it will hurt and hopefully it will help.

Jealous1 has recommended I try Duralactin (I think) which is a natural anti-inflammatory. I am going to print that information and take it with me to his specialist next week. He is going to the oncologist for his chest lump - not cancer and hopefully finally cured, but I'm not certain and he needs rechecked. He also has an internal specialist there who is very familiar with him and his issues and I am going to get her recommendations as well.

They have at this point recommended Tramadol for pain since he has taken that before and handled it well. He does take a low dose aspirin once or twice a day depending on how he is feeling (the vet okayed this dose).
I am hoping for something to help with the inflammation, but will settle for just pain control if that is all that is available.

Copper has much the same symptoms as Toby - mostly on his left side. His x-rays do show spondylosis and he injured his left hind leg this summer and it is very slow at getting better. He has good days and bad days and I want to maximize his good days if possible. Seeing him have problems is so much worse than if it is me!!!!!!!

I will of course share any and all information I get.
Give Toby a hug and smooch for me.


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## hotel4dogs

I am always so tickled (and in a way misty eyed) at how Toby and Copper are alter-egos! It's simply amazing!


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## coppers-mom

Now if we can get their karma synced and get them both doing better!

Duralactin is available at Petco and I am going to go by there after work and pick some up. It is a milk based supplement so should be okay for him which is why I decided to start it now. I will order the Glycoflex III and start it next week once I am sure all is well with the Duralactin.

Copper does have some spondylosis (based on his too frequent x-rays for other issues), but I really think a large part of the problem was from his falling on the deck this summer once my husband restained it. He never completely recovered from that. My (gonna be ex) vet said his knee seemed fine etc. and the specialists think his weakness if from arthritis too, but I think the leg is part of the problem. 

He has trouble getting up (and tile floors are wicked for him!), muscle wastage in the rear and problems mainly with his left hind leg. He uses his chest and front legs at least 75% to get up and doesn't seem to put much weight on the rear until he is standing.

Poor fella - it's a good think he just doesn't let anythng get him down. He is happy, but I really want his quality of life to improve if possible.

Then again, I am preaching to the choir.


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## hotel4dogs

I am thinking I need to design a rear end harness for Toby, unless someone already knows of a good one? I want one that can stay on him, like a collar. I'm picturing a figure-8 type deal around his back legs and over his rump, so that I can grab it from above and help him on the slippery floors.
Does anyone know of one like that? The whole point would be for it to be something that I can leave on him.


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## Claire's Friend

I think there is an "EZ up harness that is for the hind end. I have always used the belly harnesses because I have girls. They do make some that they can be strapped into. Have either of you tried or thought of trying Adaquan injections? They are very few side effects (It's just one giant Glucosime molecule is my understanding). Many people can give it themselves. I have had it work wonders on several of my Goldens. I can't say enough good things about Glycoflex III, but make sure you give it at least 3 months. I keep both of my girls on the loading dose. Finally I do have an Eddie's Wheels cart that I have shared with many forum members. It is about $40.00 to ship ground. I would need to know some info (weight, measurements) on your dogs to know if it would work. I am more than happy to lend it out. It was built for a girl but every other dog that has used it has been a boy.Once you get to the point of quality of life, there are steroids. They gave our girl 6 more really great months, but did kill her in the end. Good luck with your boys !!!


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## hotel4dogs

Thanks for the info., I"ll look up the EZ up harness. 
I have pursued adequan injections, but since his problem doesn't seem to be arthritis the vet doesn't feel they'll be of much help. 
And of course (being a dog without a spleen), nothing can be easy. He can't take steroids, because with no spleen he fights demodex mange and you can't give dogs with demodex steroids.
Sigh.
But I will take a look at the harness, maybe it's just what I need. Once he's up, he's just fine!



Claire's Friend said:


> I think there is an "EZ up harness that is for the hind end. I have always used the belly harnesses because I have girls. They do make some that they can be strapped into. Have either of you tried or thought of trying Adaquan injections? They are very few side effects (It's just one giant Glucosime molecule is my understanding). Many people can give it themselves. I have had it work wonders on several of my Goldens. I can't say enough good things about Glycoflex III, but make sure you give it at least 3 months. I keep both of my girls on the loading dose. Finally I do have an Eddie's Wheels cart that I have shared with many forum members. It is about $40.00 to ship ground. I would need to know some info (weight, measurements) on your dogs to know if it would work. I am more than happy to lend it out. It was built for a girl but every other dog that has used it has been a boy.Once you get to the point of quality of life, there are steroids. They gave our girl 6 more really great months, but did kill her in the end. Good luck with your boys !!!


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## coppers-mom

I happily drove 15 miles out of my way to get Copper some Duralactin and I was just soooooo giddy. They don't have it in the store - only online. I'll order some tomorrow. Sigh.

I wish I had read about the harness before I went to Petco and PetSmart - they have harnesses, but I didn't look at them closely.

I've never heard of adequan, but will check into that next week when he goes to the specialist.

Ditto to no steroids for Copper - he has no spleen and has had pancreatitis so his treatment options are limited too. It causes problems, but he wouldn't be here now if we hadn't found his splenic tumors by accident and been encouraged by Hotel4dogs to go with the splenectomy. Big grins.:


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## hotel4dogs

this is sort of what I have in mind, but not quite

http://handicappedpets.com/www/index.php/rear-harness-to-help-dogs-and-cats-walk-.html


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## paula bedard

I found this harness at the site below. It has less material involved so might be more comfortable for him to wear? The harness I had for Sam was a sling type that went around his stomach. Luckily, he didn't need it very often. This doesn't appear to be one you can leave on Toby...but maybe it can be modified? 

http://www.marvistavet.net/html/body_products_for_arthritic_dogs.html

I found it here also, as well as the injections you were talking about.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/dog-supplies/dog-arthritic-aids/ps/c/3307/20748

Here's a demo video of this harness, click video box left side of page 
http://www.bottomsupleash.com/index.php?page=info_hip_dysplasia


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## hotel4dogs

Thanks Paula!
What I'm looking for (may have to make one myself, looks like the one you suggested might be altered to fit my needs) is one I can leave on him. The only time he needs help is getting up on our slippery tile floors, so I'd like one that just stays on and I can help him whenever I see him struggling to get up.


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## paula bedard

hotel4dogs said:


> Thanks Paula!
> What I'm looking for (may have to make one myself, looks like the one you suggested might be altered to fit my needs) is one I can leave on him. The only time he needs help is getting up on our slippery tile floors, so I'd like one that just stays on and I can help him whenever I see him struggling to get up.



I was thinking it might easily modify. Some type of buckle or snap/click over the rump area that allows it to stay on while not in use. The other harnesses were sling type and did not look like they could be modified as easily. If you do make one, you might want to add a soft material over the straps so Toby doesn't rub himself raw on his under areas.


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## coppers-mom

This looks like it might be adjustable. It lloks like there is a tangle of straps that could be tightened so it would fit different dogs.

I hope you figure something at for Toby. Those tile floors are wicked!


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## moverking

Barb, buy one and keep that receipt! Look at how it's made. Then gather some leashes and collars you're willing to take apart/cut and copy it with your modifications!

Let your creative inner child out 

Post pics as you go and we'll help.
This could be a 'patent' for you. I agree it would be much easier to have a 'leave on' harness!
As Paula suggested, you could make sleeves of a fleece fabric to could the harness in sensitive areas.

And then return the EZ up:


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## hotel4dogs

great idea, thanks! I also like Paula's idea of fabric, or maybe fleece, for the sensitive areas where it might rub.
Let's face it, if I have to go get the harness, put it on him, then help him up I might just as well have put my arms under his belly and pulled him up in half the time, which is why I want a leave on one.




moverking said:


> Barb, buy one and keep that receipt! Look at how it's made. Then gather some leashes and collars you're willing to take apart/cut and copy it with your modifications!
> 
> Let your creative inner child out
> 
> Post pics as you go and we'll help.
> This could be a 'patent' for you. I agree it would be much easier to have a 'leave on' harness!
> As Paula suggested, you could make sleeves of a fleece fabric to could the harness in sensitive areas.
> 
> And then return the EZ up:


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## coppers-mom

Also in the time it takes you to get the harness, Toby has probably managed to lever himself up regardless of the fact it might cause him pain!

I wonder how I know that......

Good luck with the harness.




hotel4dogs said:


> great idea, thanks! I also like Paula's idea of fabric, or maybe fleece, for the sensitive areas where it might rub.
> Let's face it, if I have to go get the harness, put it on him, then help him up I might just as well have put my arms under his belly and pulled him up in half the time, which is why I want a leave on one.


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## Dallas Gold

I'm seeing progress in our 12.5 year old Barkley's fight against spondylitis and neurological issues with monthly acupuncture, chinese herbs, chiropractic adjustments, B-12 injections and massage. I have no clue what is in the chinese herbs but they seem to help him and he's very happy on them (we jokingly refer to them as his happy pills). We give him the usual supplementation of fish oils and glucosamine/chondroiton/msm. 
Recently Penny & Maggie's mom and I attended a nutraceutical seminar for pets put on by a local veterinarian who does conventional acupuncture in her veterinary practice. She mentioned Dasuquin is showing good results with dogs with these issues. In addition she mentioned Sam-E as benefitting both arthritis and cognitive function in pets. I'm not sure if it helps with neurological issues as well but I just ordered this for Barkley, as well as some Dasuquin:
http://www.entirelypets.com/denestra.html
Barkley has severe arthritis and he could use some help in the cognitive area. If it works for him, we may take a human version ourselves! 

Our first golden had a more serious issue with his back end. While we didn't consult with a neurologist we did go to a orthopedic specialist and he put him on neurontin for it. We didn't see any progress on the drug, so we switched back to Metacam, conventional acupuncture, fish oils and the glucosamine/adequin routine. We ordered the Comfort Lift from Drs. Foster and Smith that we kept on him during his worst days, and it helped me lift him up, though I don't think it was that comfortable for him to wear for an extended time period.
I've seen a lady in our area walking a dog with the bottoms up leash. It works and the dog appears to really enjoy his walks!


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## Finn's Fan

Dallas Gold, if Barkley needs cognitive help, I highly recommend Cholodin, which you can order from entirely pets. My angel Cody was losing it mentally (he also had spondylosis and degenerative myelopathy), and I didn't want to put him on Anipryl or any of the pharmaceuticals. Cholodin was a miracle for him, reversed his confusion after three days. I kept him on it the rest of his life, and my friend who had his littermate kept Toby on it, as well. Cody lived to 14 1/2 and Toby to almost 16 1/2, and both were sharp as tacks until their trips to the Bridge.


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## Dallas Gold

Finn's Fan said:


> Dallas Gold, if Barkley needs cognitive help, I highly recommend Cholodin, which you can order from entirely pets. My angel Cody was losing it mentally (he also had spondylosis and degenerative myelopathy), and I didn't want to put him on Anipryl or any of the pharmaceuticals. Cholodin was a miracle for him, reversed his confusion after three days. I kept him on it the rest of his life, and my friend who had his littermate kept Toby on it, as well. Cody lived to 14 1/2 and Toby to almost 16 1/2, and both were sharp as tacks until their trips to the Bridge.


That is amazing you saw changes in only 3 days. We do supplement him with Cholodin and I think it's helped him, though not as dramatic as your experience. Right now, after about 11 months I'm seeing small changes. We are nearing the end of a huge warehouse size bottle of it we got at entirely pets a year ago so maybe we should order some fresher tablets. He loves to eat them as treats. Our almost 6 year old Toby is extremely intelligent (nothing gets by him...) so we've held off supplementing him with it but I might start as he nears senior status in the coming year. The veterinarian at the seminar also gave out some fabulous handouts and they indicate the Omega 3 fatty acids help with mental ability, especially with brain development in growing animals. If it's good for the puppies it should be good for the seniors too!


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## 2golddogs

I have also had wonderful success with giving Cholodin and Dasuquin to Sundance, who had weakness in his hind legs and would often stumble when we went on walks or occasionally going up or down stairs. The symptoms first showed up at about 12 years old and within a couple of weeks we could walk the mile around our neighborhood and he never stumbled again. He also had a much easier time getting up and didn't seem to have pain from the osteoarthritis. I think these meds allowed Sundance to enjoy the last 2 years of his life. It has been 1 year ago today that we lost our beautiful boy at 14.


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## coppers-mom

I was hoping to take Copper on a little trail ride yesterday, but didn't have time.

We went in the paddock and were plundering around yesterday evening. That was almost more than he could handle. His left hind leg would give out and he would just sit down.

He had a shot of Azymicin about 6 weeks ago for the horrible chest lump he had going on and he did great for a week. I believe steroids was one of the ingredients in the shot, but they don't recommend he take those.

I am going to talk to his specialist more about what he can take to make his quality of life better. Growing old is hard to do and really hard to watch!!!


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## Duke's Momma

You know, I'm wondering, though, if a steroid shot (hmmmmm, where to give it would be the question) somewhere in his spine or hip might be the answer for a while - especially after the reaction he had with the one in his chest.


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## molsonsmom

hotel4dogs said:


> My poor Toby, like a lot of older goldens (he'll be 12 in Jan., and he's an oversized, although thin, golden) is having problems with his back legs.
> Has anyone taken their senior golden with back end problems to a neurologist to see if there's anything else they can offer that the regular vet and chiropractor cannot?
> If so, what were the results?
> I want do everything possible for him, other than his back legs he feels great and plays like a youngster (once I help him up on the slippery tile floors!)


Hi,

As you have probably noticed there are a lot of us out there with senior goldens with problems in their hind legs. Like yours my Molson (who will be 15 in February) has neurological damage and his situation is also complicated by hip dysplasia. We took Molson two years ago to a surgeon specializing in hips and one of the first things he noted was that there was spinal neurological damage, he showed us different tests, like Molson having no clue he was standing on his foot which was bent backwards.

You can always take Toby to a neurologist although I am not sure what the neurologist would do at his age although there are always new medication coming onto the market. Surgery might be an option although again at 12 I am not sure. At 13 Molson was not a candidate but he also had hip dysplasia so that was three strikes against him, age, nerve damage and hip dysplasia not a good mix! 

So he was put on pain management as well as use of the *Hip Hammock* that was created for him by me which helped him regain mobility and stability for an extra year an a half. You can check it out at *www.animalassistanceproducts.com* . 

_Glucosamine and chondroitin _worked great for a few years on its own before it was necessary for a trip to the surgeon. _Medicam_ helped also, we tried acupuncture for quite a while because some dogs have amazing results although Molson did not and finally we added _Tramadol_ when pain management became necessary and it has worked like a miracle.

Also what helped with those slippery tiled floors were carpets, we carpeted everywhere because he needed the grip. if there isn't a rug covering the floor then runners of all colors and sizes are double sided taped to the floor so they won't move.

And if you are interested in what it is like to live with an aging beloved Golden with ever increasing disabilities check out Molsie's Blog at
www.animalassistanceproducts.com/blog


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## moverking

molson'smom....Molsie's Blog has me in tears this morning, tears of joy, compassion, laughter and sadness....what a wonderful writer you are!
Barb and Cindy, you should take a peek..
http://animalassistanceproducts.com/blog/


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## molsonsmom

moverking said:


> molson'smom....Molsie's Blog has me in tears this morning, tears of joy, compassion, laughter and sadness....what a wonderful writer you are!
> Barb and Cindy, you should take a peek..
> http://animalassistanceproducts.com/blog/



Dear Moverking (we do have funny names) Thanks for your very appreciated comments, both Molson and I thank you...now I hear him barking so I have to run! :doh:


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## hotel4dogs

Thanks Molson's mom! Toby's chiropractor didn't see anything a neurologist could do for Toby. I'm going to my regular vet Monday for something else, and I plan to ask him, too. 
I guess I was thinking maybe degenerative myelopathy, but luckily symptoms seem to point away from that. There are some new drugs for DM.
I'll check out the website, thanks!


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## coppers-mom

I have been massaging Copper with a windmere massager and also manually and he is doing much better.:

He had hurt his left hind leg this summer and I was pretty sure it was a major part of his problem still even though multiple vets disagreed. So I just decided to see if massage would help and hooray! it does.

I started him on duralactin yesterday since he does still have some weakness in his back end. I also got him glycoflex III since I was not sure of the qualtiy of the chondoitin/glucosamine supplement he was taking.

I am hoping to see even more improvement as the supplements kick in, but I am really happy with what I have. We are going to plunder around in the woods this afternoon and I will get some pics. We haven't been able to go plundering since spring.

I'm going to check out Molson's blog from work tomorrow. It won't load on this dial-up at home.


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