# Cattle dog growling in the show ring



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

I do not know about that particular breed. I do know that certain traits are extremely inherited, for instance my rough collie, Mack, is very 'vocal'. Depending on the situation he will whine, moan, groan, growl or bark. Any of these express how tired, playful or 'serious' he is. My Goldens have never carried on like he does. Herding dogs are more vocal because they are supposed to warn the shepherd of danger and protect the flock. It's very much part of the genetic makeup. i'm assuming that cattle dogs who work with bigger and more aggressive livestock like cattle would have inbred stronger and more aggressive reactions. However, I can't imagine that barely controlled dog aggression would be acceptable in any breed but I'm not an expert. 

At any rate, I would be very uncomfortable having a dog like that in a class on a regular basis. It sounds like if the handler ever loses control it's not 'if' he attacks but "who" the victim will be. I'd be wearing mace around my neck if it were that bad.


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## tikiandme (May 16, 2010)

I would not allow the dog near my dog, period. I would tell the person handling the dog to steer clear of my dog. I have never heard of growling being allowed to continue at a dog show, no matter what breed. Terriers being allowed to spar is one thing. But a dog being given the freedom to growl at any other dog? Maybe I'm wrong, but I would not put up with it. If that dog could not be avoided, then I would take classes elsewhere. I would not take any chances with your precious girl If I were you.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I have never seen a dog act like this before. In class we have had all kinds of breeds that can be aggressive but they are all very sweet. I have not had a chance to ask my breeder, she is the one that owns the training facility. It was another instructor/handler that told us this. I am wondering if somebody said something.


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## tikiandme (May 16, 2010)

I would assume that a dog that is so aggressive that it growls and lunges would be considered an accident waiting to happen, a potential legal liability to the facility owner.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

>





> [R] Poorly Trained, Shy and Vicious Dogs​​​​Excuse​
> any dog that will not stand for examination; mark the​ judge’s book “Excused, unable to examine;” and initial​ ​​​​​
> the notation.​ ​​​​​
> Excuse any dog that in your opinion:​ • Menaces​ • Threatens​ • Exhibits any sign that it may not be safely​ approached or examined in the normal manner.​ ​​​​​
> ...


​ ​ ^^^^ This comes out of the AKC Rules and Regulations. So to me the instructor is doing that other handler a disservice by not requiring them to up their handling skills as far as controlling their dogs.​ ​ These dogs are supposed to be protective and suspicious, but lunging at other dogs and growling is probably grounds for getting them kicked out of the ring. There are so many breeds that are known to be protective, suspicious, and not the best around other dogs (Akitas, for example). The reason why stuff doesn't happen more in the ring is because of the handlers controlling the space around their dogs.​​​​​


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## flatcoated (Feb 3, 2013)

The Cattle Dog breed standard section on temperament reads like the breed's stewards are trying to have it both ways, but I don't think it's meant to be interpreted as excusing unprovoked aggressive behavior:

"Temperament: The Cattle Dog's loyalty and protective instincts make it a self-appointed guardian to the stockman, his herd and his property. Whilst naturally suspicious of strangers, must be amenable to handling, particularly in the show ring. Any feature of temperament or structure foreign to a working dog must be regarded as a serious fault."

Cattle Dogs temperaments are not like those of Goldens by any stretch of imagination, but even so, the kind of behavior you describe is likely to be deemed unacceptable by many judges. I'd certainly keep my distance.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Megora said:


> ​ ​ ^^^^ This comes out of the AKC Rules and Regulations. So to me the instructor is doing that other handler a disservice by not requiring them to up their handling skills as far as controlling their dogs.​ ​ These dogs are supposed to be protective and suspicious, but lunging at other dogs and growling is probably grounds for getting them kicked out of the ring. There are so many breeds that are known to be protective, suspicious, and not the best around other dogs (Akitas, for example). The reason why stuff doesn't happen more in the ring is because of the handlers controlling the space around their dogs.​​​​​


Thanks! That is what I had always heard.

This dog allows the judges/instructors to handle him, I don't think he likes other dogs. I have never seen a show dog act this way.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

From my limited experience, ACDs can be real jerks around other dogs. Tread lightly. Owner needs to put the hammer down and quick before he hurts someone.


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## SwimDog (Sep 28, 2014)

I knew people who were showing terriers of some sort ( a long time ago - I forget!) but some amount of reactivity was desirable there. Not enough for lunging and barking, but stiff posturing - to the point that the judges apparently ask the handlers to stack (free stack?) pairs of dogs facing each other to get more of that. The way it was described all the non-conformation people were quite unhappy about it and none of us wanted our dogs to act that way or be put in that position but the terrier conformation people thought it was a breed trait and not undesirable. 

When things are to the point of lunging and barking, things aren't so great and there are safety concerns as well as welfare issues (dog's quality of life/stress for him to be acting that way - especially if it's happening so much).


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## rooroch (Nov 7, 2012)

I used to handle Welsh Terriers for my neighbour and we used to show them as you describe, free stack facing each other and they would stand stiffly with just the tail moving a little bit.
This young cattle dog needs sorting out now or there will be trouble later on.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

This cattle dog is an attack waiting to happen. I would no how, no way allow that dog anywhere near one of mine. If it stacked up behind mine, I would move and I would tell the instructor. Indeed, I might tell the instructor they were going to lose my business over it. It is 100% unacceptable. And, you know, that little show lead and collar aren't going to stop that cattle dog if he's sufficiently motivated. It will just break, and then...good luck.


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## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

Just wanted to say that the Australian Cattle dog/Blue Heelers are indeed jerks. About 9/10 cattle dogs we've come across have been very aggressive towards other dogs.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Well, the dog has not showed up for class since. I did see it one weekend in a Schutzhund class that was on the same property.

I casually mentioned about the aggression of this dog to my breeder, who owns the school, and she told me the dog has issues. Another breeder told me this dog and owner are not a good match. Hopefully, I won't have to deal with him again.


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