# Senior Hunt Rules & Experience



## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Since Claudia started a JH thread, I thought I'd start a SH thread as my season winds to a close. Our last hunt test of the year is this coming weekend. Way too early, but every year we end in mid-August. So I would really like to run SH next year. Our season doesn't start until end of May, so I have some time to prepare.

Any thoughts on what skills are necessary for a solid SH test run?

Here's some dumb questions since it's such a huge leap from JH to Sh.
1. Can you talk to your dog at all? (In JH everyone is cheerleading their dogs.)
2. How far ahead of you can your off leash dog be when you walk to the line? 
3. Does the dog have to be sitting at the line before sending on the first bird? (Lucy kind of squats a little but not a full sit.)
4. Can a dog break on a blind? (Lucy just thinks anytime she goes to the line something exciting is out there, so sometimes she breaks.)
5. Triples or doubles on SH?
6. Leash in my pocket right?
7. Any other words of wisdom?


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I am no where near this level but cannot wait to read what others have encountered in their tests.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Alaska7133 said:


> Since Claudia started a JH thread, I thought I'd start a SH thread as my season winds to a close. Our last hunt test of the year is this coming weekend. Way too early, but every year we end in mid-August. So I would really like to run SH next year. Our season doesn't start until end of May, so I have some time to prepare.
> 
> Any thoughts on what skills are necessary for a solid SH test run?
> 
> ...


 Just think of it as 2 junior marks strung together! What I've seen most people go out on is the blinds, not the marks. Also, as much as it hurts to do it, don't be afraid to pick your dog up, thank the judges, and head back to the truck if the dog does something that might become a bad habit in the future (like refusing to sit at the line). It's not worth it to form bad habits that you will have a hard time breaking later, just to get a ribbon. Tito's only SH fail was for exactly that reason. He did something I REALLY didn't like, and I called him in, leashed him, and thanked the judges. The judge told me I didn't have to pick up my dog, I could have let him go on, and I told him, "I didn't like the look in his eye".


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> Just think of it as 2 junior marks strung together! What I've seen most people go out on is the blinds, not the marks. Also, as much as it hurts to do it, don't be afraid to pick your dog up, thank the judges, and head back to the truck if the dog does something that might become a bad habit in the future (like refusing to sit at the line). It's not worth it to form bad habits that you will have a hard time breaking later, just to get a ribbon. Tito's only SH fail was for exactly that reason. He did something I REALLY didn't like, and I called him in, leashed him, and thanked the judges. The judge told me I didn't have to pick up my dog, I could have let him go on, and I told him, "I didn't like the look in his eye".


About 30 years ago I saw that at a Field Trial. Dog was run by a pro. He yelled at the dog, called him in from maybe 25 yards and leashed him up. Boy, was he the talk of the rest of the handlers.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Are you not allowed to reinforce the heel command as you walk to the line?

Both girls take some extra steps as they know they will get to work and they are super excited - "where is the darn line mom, where IS IT?". I slow down and tell them to heel and they get right back in line. I do that every time we go outside and work. That also tells them that they will be working and not just goofing off in the yard or at the cabin.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

You can absolutely reinforce the heel command all the way to the line, as long as you don't sound intimidating or harsh. But do bear in mind that the more you do so, the more the judges might question the trainability score, so try to keep it to a minimum. A few stern, well placed "heel" commands are not going to be a problem at all.

The only time you can't talk is after you have signaled to the judges that you are ready, until all the birds are down and the judges have called for you to send your dog.

edit to add....also, take all the time you need to get to the line. If your dog needs to stop and sit for a few seconds to get his or her head mind back in the right frame, then stop. Pause, have the dog sit, then start to heel forward again. I have been known to take a LONG time to get to the line in the MHU tests ;-)




Claudia M said:


> Are you not allowed to reinforce the heel command as you walk to the line?
> 
> Both girls take some extra steps as they know they will get to work and they are super excited - "where is the darn line mom, where IS IT?". I slow down and tell them to heel and they get right back in line. I do that every time we go outside and work. That also tells them that they will be working and not just goofing off in the yard or at the cabin.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Normally the longer the distance to the line the better. I tried to stay a holding blind behind with Darcy during our JH test but was told I have to move up. OOPS


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

We have had some pretty difficult water blinds. I would make sure you had some skill in, angled entry, shorelines, channels, by a point, backside a winger, and long entry.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I do sit multiple times on the way to the line for JH, Lucy pulls really hard on the leash to get there. I pop the leash and say "watch" and have her sit. When Lucy looks at me, I say "yes". It helps me make a connection with her. With Reilly he's not big at pulling on the leash to the line, he just gets really jumpy and silly and very funny. I talk to him and explain things, Lucy I have to be very firm with. Totally different dogs mentally.

So on a walk up, is it a single? I went on YouTube and watched some walk ups. You are told before hand it will be a walk up right? Then as you leave the blind and arrive in a general line area, someone quacks, throws and bird and shoots, right? As you are walking up you will not have enough time to sit your dog and look out at the marks, right? Is it always a single or is it ever doubles?

This weekend I'll have to go watch the senior tests.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

The tests Ive watched in my area and what I was training with my trainer is the walkup you had a general area that you knew it was going to start. I had to either blow my sit whistle or say sit and point my gun towards the bird and follow it down. Then after about three seconds (that is how long I generally let Kat focus on that bird) you start to hear the other bird and then you point your gun to shoot the other bird. Then you wait, they call dog and I send on that bird. So the whole process is silent when you say sit. 
I prefer to say sit than whistle it is faster reaction for me. Luckily Kat has pretty good obedience and stops when I stop. 
One thing I would say is all the good senior dogs had very nice obedience and line manners. the creepers and the spastic ones were the ones that generally didn't pass.
Also, at a seminar I went to the judges told us that if the dog is just barely creeping don't say anything because the judges might notice it when they wouldn't have noticed it before. Apparently down here they tend to knock off points every time you say heel or back or whatever.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

So the one you mention in your post, is that a double then?


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

yes it was. Also, coming in with the last mark my trainer would throw in a diversion bird that she would have to go get. So in a way it was a triple.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Sounds pretty tricky!


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

I actually enjoy the walk ups for some reason. It wasn't as bad as I thought they'd be in training and it was enough of a challenge that it gave us something new to work on. BUT that was training, I'm sure I'll be shitttting bricks in a test.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

The tricky part is breaking on a walk up. Like Barb said, we have to have a strong sit. Creeping will lead to breaking on a walk up. Something new to work on.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

The last seniors I ran were with Slater 3 yrs ago -- the first season after the "senior must have a walkup" rule -- and the new rule of walkup no attention getting noisemakers and less than 45 yards. Anyhoo every test I ran with him had the walkup as the memory bird of the double. In HRC you tend to see a single walkup in Seasoned. A walkup is required in Seasoned but not Finished.



Alaska7133 said:


> Here's some dumb questions since it's such a huge leap from JH to Sh.
> 1. Can you talk to your dog at all? (In JH everyone is cheerleading their dogs.)


Same rule as in Junior.



> 2. How far ahead of you can your off leash dog be when you walk to the line?


That is for you to train and the judges to judge. Generally you should re-heel your dog if he gets out more than a gun-length ahead of you. If you should stop and shoot theoretically, the dog should not be ahead of the blast. 
Also remember that since it is all off leash, a lot more control is expected of the dog. That level of control is reflected in your trainability score and can adversely affect your pass or fail. EVERY TIME you give a command and the dog DOES NOT COMPLY -- that is a potential ding in trainability. So if your dog creeps, the judges call your number, and you have to tell your dog HEEL five times before he gets in heel position -- BIG dings in trainability. Same goes for saying HEEL or SIT during the walkup, or just walking to the line from the holding blind. A perfect dog is only told once, and does it. A dog with a lower trainability score has to be told several times. If you have to remind your dog several times in training, that will turn into many times during a test, and could fail you with a zero in trainability. I have seen it happen at senior!!! 



> 3. Does the dog have to be sitting at the line before sending on the first bird? (Lucy kind of squats a little but not a full sit.)


No



> 4. Can a dog break on a blind? (Lucy just thinks anytime she goes to the line something exciting is out there, so sometimes she breaks.)


No. This is one of those AKC rules nobody likes, but it is strictly followed. Dogs are NOT allowed confusion on a send on a BLIND, but are allowed a re-send if due to confusion on a MARK. If you are setting your dog up for a blind and she takes off before you are ready, you cannot call her back and re-send. You can, however, handle from there and hope for the best. A judge does not release you when sending for a blind, so they cannot fault the dog for breaking, but you cannot recall and start over. If you send your dog on a blind and she doesn't go, or takes a few steps and returns, you are done. If this happens on a MARK, however, you can re-send the dog and hope the judges view it as confusion. 



> 5. Triples or doubles on SH?


Typically you will see a double on land and a double on water, with or without a walkup as the memory bird.



> 6. Leash in my pocket right?


Yes



> 7. Any other words of wisdom?


Most dogs fail senior on the water blind.
Remember to handle the gun properly in training, every time you train, so it is old hat to you and the dog. Learn proper gun handling.
Know the rules.
Train with people that are fluent with running at this level.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Since we did HRC Seasoned before AKC Senior, Winter was schooled on the walk-up as a single. It was pretty easy to transition that into a double. I believe all our SH walk-ups were memory birds too. 
The other place people fail in SH is on the honor. Yep, I might know something about that.


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