# July Field Training



## gdgli

Today was hot. I wanted to work on the car but I decided to plan it out while taking a nap. It is now cooler and maybe we can get out for a bit.

I have been tuning up Buffy and am very happy with her progress. We have been working on lining and casting. Well worth the effort to review.


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## boomers_dawn

I put the short contacts on the collar and tried it but Gladys still has rub marks, so no more collar until her coat grows back (coat blown postpartum, very thin with actual bald spots on back)

We're supposed to work on: 
a) Gladys - poison bird drills
b) Dee Dee - pay attention marking - start short and don't let her go until she's looking in the right place


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## Alaska7133

Lucy and I are repeating Attention classes this summer. She is getting better at looking at me and waiting for direction. I'm hoping this will help when I whistle her.


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## hotel4dogs

I am trying to help a friend get ready to run her flat coated retriever in a WCX the end of July, so we ran a couple of triples this morning. It was nice to get out and work a little! We have tracking this afternoon, but I may take him swimming first.


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## tpd5

Well now that we are finished with started and junior we have started to really work on handling and lining drills this week. I have been running Mason on a lot of walkout blinds to boost his confidence on blind work. We also have upped the number of multiples and thrown in some walk ups and diversion birds. Hope to start running seasoned this fall.


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## Alaska7133

tpd5, I love walk out blinds! I do them with dogs that haven't been force fetched or learned to handle at all, and my dog that is more advanced. They seem to really enjoy figuring it out. I sometimes place a bird, throw a double, then send the dog for that one walk out blind. How are you doing your walk out blinds? I'm always looking for ideas.


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## tpd5

How we have been doing the walkout blinds depends on the day and the blind. If it is a difficult one we may walk out and run it right away. We also may walk out and plant the blind and then go for a walk come back and run it. Sometimes we will run marks before picking up blind. Usually we will plant 2 or 3 and then run them in order. These are usually between 100-200 yards.


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## boomers_dawn

tpd5 said:


> Well now that we are finished with started and junior


I didn't know you titled. Congratulations!


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## tpd5

Thanks Dawn


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## boomers_dawn

Today, last day of vacation from work outside of the actual holiday and weekend, we trained one last time. I tried doing a master triple with Gladys without the collar but it was counterproductive. She wasn't working with me at all, doing what she wanted, not caring about me yelling like a truck driver and running out to make her do what I said. 

So Plan B: work on marking and steady until we can resume triples, blinds, and poison concepts

Dee Dee did singles, she wasn't paying attention on the first one, came in without finding anything, but did better after that. Gladys did that a few times when she was younger. It was really hot and I was having trouble remembering things myself :yuck:


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## hotel4dogs

I worked the boy's fuzzy butt off today, it's rather pleasant out (76) which is weird for July! We went out to Dan's, I did some water handling drills with Tito, and then sent him on a 120 yard swimming blind. It got a little ugly in places, but he did come up with the bumper finally. 
Followed that with some nice land marks, and a couple of shot fliers at about 125 yards out. He had to put up a really big hunt for one of the fliers, and his upland experiences showed as he hunted, hunted, hunted, and finally came up with the bird. Shot another one, found that one right away. I have to say the gunner did an amazing job of getting both fliers in pretty much the same spot! It was a tough mark, with cover changes and the bird going down on the back side of a very small hill. Did a couple of land blinds, he lined the first one and then had to be handled on the second one. I didn't want to put too much pressure on him because of the "hunt dead" at the Spaniel tests, we'll fix things later. 
Ended up with almost 1/2 hour of some AWESOME upland hunting. Quail again (should have chukkar again soon), very small, like hunting sparrows, sheeesh. Anyway, I was very pleased. Dan made a 3 shots, too, which is probably a record, so Tito got some nice retrieves. One went down in a thicket of sumac trees and tall weeds, it took him a minute to hunt that one out, but we heard him come crashing out of the cover and sure enough, bird was in mouth.
A great day.


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## K9-Design

boomers_dawn said:


> Happy July 1!
> Gladys did Master for Dummies set up. She did the master triple but with white bumpers. It was a debacle because she wanted the middle bird second but I made her do outside/outside/inside. I spent so much time fighting her, she never found the second or last mark (memory completely diluted even though she had been fixated on that last one). It was confusing to me b/c one group member's philosophy was let them go where they want and anothers is they go where I say.
> was ok.


This is actually a really important topic in Master. It's something with no right answer but I think for the dog's sake YOU have to decide what you're going to do, and stick to it.
I personally select for the dog in TRAINING but allow the dog to choose in a test, unless some mitigating factor makes it important to secondary select. 
IMO the dog needs to know you are the one driving the bus in training. If you do outside-outside-inside enough, the dogs absolutely learn this pattern and will follow it. Many people do shorter to longer rather than O-O-I. If the dog tries to take the reins in training, you have the ability to change their mind and make them do what you want. If you are consistent about this, you have a dog who is more willing to work with you. In Master that is essential!
However, in a test, unless it is an obvious O-O-I opportunity, I watch the dog when he is returning to see where he wants to go. With my guys they typically flick their eyes or even turn their head and look in the direction of the next bird they want, right before they get to me. Unless I have a really good reason to change their mind and get another one, I send them where they want to -- IN A TEST. 
Example:
Fisher is a firm believer in O-O-I for triples. One test we ran they shot a triple where all three birds were roughly in a line, running diagonally away from you along a treeline. Longest bird first, middle second, short bird was the go-bird. I was planning on sending him for the longest bird second, but he automatically selected the middle bird, the SHORTEST one. I didn't argue, and he picked up both memory birds successfully. 
Another example was I recently set up a double where the memory bird was a very short walkup bird, about 20 yards away, left to right. The go bird was longer, about 100 yards, and the bird launched right to left, with the bird falling under the arc of the go-bird. I absolutely, 100% wanted the dog to get the GO BIRD, not the little short bird in his face, but he had to run by that short bird only about 10 feet off the line and in plain sight. My training partner's dog had to be handled, but he had a very clean handle where he stopped the dog as soon as it was obvious the dog was going for the short bird, one big back cast and the dog took the hint and blasted out for the long bird. Slater was honest and did it right  That was pure luck -- I was prepared to handle!!!!
Just like our blind handling thread, testing can be very different than training. Running Master is a true team effort -- and you are the coach!


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## boomers_dawn

Anney, thank you so much for taking the time to explain this confusing concept with examples. What you said mirrors what 2 members of the group said, who are master national handlers. 

One time I asked dog skool teecher how to know what order to pick up the birds and he said "it depends". 
Me: Depends on what?
He: "The test". 
I got kind of annoyed, but I think what he meant was ... it depends!

I see firsthand when Gladys comes back with her first bird of a multiple, she's already looking at where she wants to go next. 

I don't completely get why to make the dog pick up the far mark before the close mark in Anney's last scenario but I DO KNOW this is the kind of thing learned in training, or by watching tests, watching master dogs and handlers run, or by screwing up and having it become crystallized in your mind forever. That has been my best learning! Actually experiencing it, especially if done wrong then understanding what was needed to be right makes it like 3D in my brain.

I can't work on selection right now, b/c Gladys can't wear the collar and doesn't care about my verbal and physical corrections. So it's counterproductive to train like this because she won't learn anything and will just get bad habits.

So, my groupies I ran senior with talked me into running a master test with them, but I can't be ready for master in 2 weeks. I have 2 difficult and confusing (for me) concepts to learn myself before I can be an effective coach - a) handling on more complex blinds and b) handling on multiple marks.

Not to mention all the other stuff that can be thrown into master like poison birds and remote sends.

So it's good to have the pressure off - I can go back to training and teaching - white bumpers, rehearsals, delays, silent rethrows. We're going to train and have fun at our own speed. Gladys and I high-fived on it tonight.


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## Loisiana

I took Phoenix to the same field we were at last week for my dad to throw bumpers for him. It was perfect for where we are at - grass long enough that the bumper wasn't visible when it landed, but not so thick that it was hard to see when he got to the area. I'm very pleased with his progress, especially considering our lack of training. 

I introduced him to one of those bumpers with a pheasant pelt on it. Crack on a bumper!


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## gdgli

boomers_dawn said:


> Today, last day of vacation from work outside of the actual holiday and weekend, we trained one last time. I tried doing a master triple with Gladys without the collar but it was counterproductive. She wasn't working with me at all, doing what she wanted, not caring about me yelling like a truck driver and running out to make her do what I said.
> 
> So Plan B: work on marking and steady until we can resume triples, blinds, and poison concepts
> 
> Dee Dee did singles, she wasn't paying attention on the first one, came in without finding anything, but did better after that. Gladys did that a few times when she was younger. It was really hot and I was having trouble remembering things myself :yuck:


Just curious, but could you describe the setup?


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## Alaska7133

Deleted...


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## boomers_dawn

gdgli said:


> Just curious, but could you describe the setup?


It was a field with moderate cover, the marks went down left to right.
First mark around 10 o'clock, approx 70 yards going right to left flat throw landing in some ferns along the far side of an opening to another field 
Second mark around 1 o'clock, approx 80 yards, going left to right landing in an open space behind some weeds and ferns
Third mark around 4 or 5 o'clock, approx 90 yards, right to left parallel to a stream landing in some grass

The go bird was ok but the first one, the open field sucked both mine into looking around the close side and middle instead of at the back edge (flat throw) where they should have been.

I hope this makes sense. I'm not too sure of the distances.


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## boomers_dawn

We had a funny poison bird today.

It rained all day and I was trying to get ready for the fam tomorrow so the only training we did was in the front yard, I have a back pile I put in front of the electric post for the pool pump and we just did our back piles. 

I usually only do this after the chickens are locked up, for the obvious reasons. But I didn't see them so figured they were hiding from the rain.

Dee Dee looked really happy and burned lots of rubber.

When it was Gladys' turn, we had stretched out far enough to be running across the driveway. I'm lining her up when the chickens come walking down the driveway to see what we're doing! I said "leave it" "good" and "back" and she ignored them. 

When we were all done, I threw her a fun bumper then a fun double. The chickens aren't that smart, the bumper flying through the air attracted them to run to it! I was surprised! I no'd Gladys off that one, and she did good. 

Well it was minimal but at least we did something and the girls looked happy to be doing it.


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## K9-Design

boomers_dawn said:


> Anney, thank you so much for taking the time to explain this confusing concept with examples. What you said mirrors what 2 members of the group said, who are master national handlers.
> 
> One time I asked dog skool teecher how to know what order to pick up the birds and he said "it depends".
> Me: Depends on what?
> He: "The test".


It does depend. But I think in TRAINING you must decide order of pickup for yourself as you set up your test. It is a training issue that the dog must follow your direction and not run the show himself. By being consistent in the way you pick up marks, the dog learns this pattern and his work and expectations become more consistent. It shows a level of control. It's just like demanding crisp handles, line manners, good lines around the shore. It's a level of control and if you let it go, the dog's behavior gets worse, not better, as you two have a struggle of who is directing traffic. 

In a test, your goal is to test like you train so you aren't throwing any wrenches at the dog. But on the flip side you are there to pick up a ribbon. There are MANY times when as the handler (coach) you must make instantaneous decisions to change your game plan to help the dog be successful. In master you will many times be faced with an out of order triple (middle bird as go bird) so there may not be an obvious choice for the 2nd bird to pick up. You may reason out which one you're going to get 2nd, but as the dog comes back he is absolutely locked on the other memory bird. Don't argue with him. The more you fuss with him and try to change his mind, the more his memory for BOTH birds erodes. But for another different dog, allowing yourself to waffle and allowing him to do what he wants may be handing him the keys and sinking your ship. Give an inch and he takes a mile. It just depends on your dog, your training, and your test you're running. 



> I don't completely get why to make the dog pick up the far mark before the close mark in Anney's last scenario but I DO KNOW this is the kind of thing learned in training, or by watching tests, watching master dogs and handlers run, or by screwing up and having it become crystallized in your mind forever. That has been my best learning! Actually experiencing it, especially if done wrong then understanding what was needed to be right makes it like 3D in my brain.


In this scenario the reason was a no brainer : if the dog picks up the short bird, not only is he disobeying the handler and going for a bird he was NOT sent for (assuming the handler did send him for the go-bird first), but he also will have to come back and try to remember the go bird (long bird) after just picking up the short one, which probably wiped out his memory a good bit. If he minded his manners, his memory bird would be 20 yards away, not 100. You wouldn't let your dog switch in a straight up double, so I don't want him switching in this converging, under the arc concept double either. 

Hope this helps


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## gdgli

I have a feeling that by fighting what the dogs wanted to do may have had a lot to do with what happened. I drew a diagram of your setup. That gives a 90 deg angle between each mark so that the 10 o'clock is 180 deg to 4 o'clock mark. I think this may explain why the dog wants to go for the 2nd mark so strongly. When you send the dog it doesn't even have the 1st mark in it's field of vision. Just my guess, I don't really think like a dog. 

I had a similar setup at a training session. Buffy had already picked up the right mark and I tried to set her up for the left mark (O-O-I) but Buffy liked it otherwise. I started to fuss when the person running this setup said to me "You know she really wants that middle bird" to which I replied "I am trying to do O-O-I". She then said again "She REALLY wants that middle bird". Well I took her advice.

What advice did you get from your group on this one?


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## hollyk

*Winter goes International!*

We picked up our first Canadian Master pass yesterday. 
Clean on land, but with an unbelievable amount of calls and shots both in the field and at the line she creeped more than I would have liked. She quartered well, was steady to shot and moved right in to her water blind. Really a nice water blind where she took a cast right over a log. Perfect water marks and was only one of two dogs who were able to punch though a long middle mark to go clean. Both judges went out of their way to tell me she is great marker and and nice dog.
Yippee!


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## hotel4dogs

Way to go Winter and Holly!!! You guys just keep on impressing everyone!


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## Alaska7133

Holly that's great! 

Working on water doubles. Miss Lucy is good to go. One controlled break. No running the bank, it was nice to see her angle entries. Last summer it was so frustrating to not get there. We're working hard on whistle sits too. I feel like I'm getting somewhere now. 

Worked honors in the front yard with Lucy and Reilly. I had Lucy honor for Reilly. She just had a fit. It was so hard even with the collar. She is so competitive. But it was good for her to learn that sit means sit, and not every bumper is hers. This weekend coming up we have a NAHRA double header and the following weekend AKC double header. Then I'm skipping the spaniel tests to be back in the breed ring and hang out with family. We are still hunting for that elusive Ch.

The weather today is a spectacular 77! My gosh everyone looks like they are melting. Thought I'd give you all a laugh for the day.


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## boomers_dawn

gdgli said:


> I have a feeling that by fighting what the dogs wanted to do may have had a lot to do with what happened. I drew a diagram of your setup. That gives a 90 deg angle between each mark so that the 10 o'clock is 180 deg to 4 o'clock mark. I think this may explain why the dog wants to go for the 2nd mark so strongly. When you send the dog it doesn't even have the 1st mark in it's field of vision. Just my guess, I don't really think like a dog.
> 
> I had a similar setup at a training session. Buffy had already picked up the right mark and I tried to set her up for the left mark (O-O-I) but Buffy liked it otherwise. I started to fuss when the person running this setup said to me "You know she really wants that middle bird" to which I replied "I am trying to do O-O-I". She then said again "She REALLY wants that middle bird". Well I took her advice.
> 
> What advice did you get from your group on this one?


I was supposed to be doing outside/outside/inside and lining her up and sending where I said. I see your point about 180 degrees, I never thought of that. I just assumed part of the problem was the opening to the other field so they were running through the opening then running around like squirrels. 

Thanks for thinking about this for me and giving me a different way to look at and think about :wavey:


Congratulations to Holly
And Alaska - such a great feeling those steps forward.

We didn't really train today. The family came over for a bbq and use the above ground pool. They wanted me to get the dog ramp out, which I did, then we proceeded to teach Dee Dee how to use it. Gladys remembered from last year. Dog skool teecher would never approve of the hundreds of fun bumpers down the ramp into the pool they did today :uhoh:


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## gdgli

Congratulations Holly!


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## boomers_dawn

We had training again today. What a debacle.

Dee Dee actually did pretty good marking, all singles. I didn't think she needed any more live bird practice, but she wouldn't pick it up, didn't seem to know how to hold it, and dropped it on the way back. 

Gladys was a piece of work, super cranked up, vocal, and disobedient. I vowed I would not take one step with her as long as I was hearing any noise, so it took us literally like a half hour to get the the line. The only way I can move with her being quiet is put her in a sit stay, move up, and call her when I'm ready for her. Then she STFU. She did her triple today! but we added a diversion on the way back, we thought it was far enough to be a non-issue but she would not come when called, went to the diversion, dropped her bird and brought back the diversion.

That earned her a spot to sit and watch ME pick up the bird. 

By the second series she was being so disobedient I said I was putting her back in the car and I would not be running her the way she was. Dog skool teecher said we were going to teach her a lesson. We did the closest single, I made her stay, while **I** went out and picked up the bird. That cooled her jets! She behaved pretty good after that.

The best part of the day was when we did the blind. Gladys came back with 2 birds so someone else had to re-plant one. That was pretty funny.

We will never be ready for anything. :--sad:


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## hollyk

We tried CKC Master again on Sunday. It was a total crash and burn in the first series. 
Again there was a ton of calling by the judges from the line with the judges answering the calls from the wingers. She creep about a body length after the first mark but it was the interval between the 2nd and 3rd mark that killed us. 180 degree swing with a really prolonged duck call by the judge ending with two shots. By the time the duck was down she was at least 15 to 20 feet out. I had to reheel her before I sent. Winter did not mark anything with all that movement. 
I was not prepared from that much noise but we will be next time.


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## gdgli

We had a terrific day. I waited until 8 PM to train. It was a bit cooler then. I went to a local field to do some casting drills. I also ran Buffy on a cold blind. I feel really good because Buffy is getting sharper with the review we are doing. I have said it before, there is a lot to be said in going back and doing maintenance stuff. 

On my way out of the field someone got out of his car and stopped me. He said that he was totally amazed at what I was doing with Buffy. He had been watching me for about 40 minutes. We chatted a bit and I thanked him for the compliment. Again I had to say, "No, she is not a mixed breed. She is a field bred Golden who is in working condition."

And I chuckle---Training done in NYC!


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## gdgli

hollyk said:


> We tried CKC Master again on Sunday. It was a total crash and burn in the first series.
> Again there was a ton of calling by the judges from the line with the judges answering the calls from the wingers. She creep about a body length after the first mark but it was the interval between the 2nd and 3rd mark that killed us. 180 degree swing with a really prolonged duck call by the judge ending with two shots. By the time the duck was down she was at least 15 to 20 feet out. I had to reheel her before I sent. Winter did not mark anything with all that movement.
> I was not prepared from that much noise but we will be next time.


Sorry to hear that Holly. It does sound like there was an awful lot of distraction. Sounds like a duck calling symphony.

Just curious---what does she do in training? And what do you do to deal with this?

If it helps, this is what I do. When I bring Buffy to the line and I get her to sit at heel it must be to my satisfaction. If it is not to my satisfaction, she is not sent. And I believe that doing this consistently has helped. Consistently is the key here. 

Anyway, better luck next time.


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## hollyk

gdgli said:


> Sorry to hear that Holly. It does sound like there was an awful lot of distraction. Sounds like a duck calling symphony.
> 
> Just curious---what does she do in training? And what do you do to deal with this?
> 
> If it helps, this is what I do. When I bring Buffy to the line and I get her to sit at heel it must be to my satisfaction. If it is not to my satisfaction, she is not sent. And I believe that doing this consistently has helped. Consistently is the key here.
> 
> Anyway, better luck next time.


In training she sits. I have seen the butt up ready to lunch and had a break on honor before so I'm always watching for it. I might see repositioning movement or in a test a slight excitement creep but nothing like this last test.
We have run 3 MH tests in the last 2 weekends, one in the States, two in Canada. I was only going to enter one of the Canadian tests (they had 3 days of tests) but at the last minute decided to enter on Friday and Sunday, bad choice.
The duck calling in both Canadian tests was like nothing we had encountered before. We were not ready for it. It was like doggy crack. I will train for crazy calling now.


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## gdgli

I purposely avoid testing back to back. If Buffy does something bad one day the completion of the retrieve reinforces it and then you have a re-run the next day where the same thing can happen. Ah, the inherent evil of testing, especially back to back.

The calls have the same effect on Buffy. In fact one wiseguy in my group went out of his way to always give me extra calling. I used it to my advantage and trained for it. As far as training and distraction goes, I do a lot of training by myself but I include a judge's chair, a "Good morning" to imaginary judges, duck calling and decoys in a NYC park. I will do whatever I can to get distractions going.


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## hollyk

gdgli said:


> I purposely avoid testing back to back. If Buffy does something bad one day the completion of the retrieve reinforces it and then you have a re-run the next day where the same thing can happen. Ah, the inherent evil of testing, especially back to back.
> 
> The calls have the same effect on Buffy. In fact one wiseguy in my group went out of his way to always give me extra calling. I used it to my advantage and trained for it. As far as training and distraction goes, I do a lot of training by myself but I include a judge's chair, a "Good morning" to imaginary judges, duck calling and decoys in a NYC park. I will do whatever I can to get distractions going.


I knew going in that I might have a loose dog. But I was going up to support a new club and a friend who has pitched in and helped with many a test by me. Winter did creep on the first series, which had the crazy calling too, but not so much as to have the judge ask for a reheel. I did however reheel her before I sent her. On water there was just normal calling so no movement and she pinned the marks. I was feeling pretty good about my shiny new Master running dog. Then came the crash and burn....you gotta love this game. 
Back to training today, it was singles with lots of noise.


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## tpd5

Got out this morning before it got too hot. Worked on some walking baseball and followed it up with some longer marks (between 200-300). Trying to stretch him out and see if we can get in a derby or two before he ages out. We have training group this evening and will likely run a couple water setups.


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## hotel4dogs

Ran a couple of nice triples this morning with a friend, and then sent him off on 2 "hunt dead" scenarios. The first one, he found the bird, and sat next to it, waiting to be told what to do. I'm sure it's because we ran some retriever style blinds in training last week, so he wasn't sure if this was a Spaniel blind, or a Retriever blind. I told him to find it, he picked it up happily and came right back. Next time, he knew what to do, and found the bird with just a small hunt.


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## Alaska7133

Tpd5, 
Run the derby! I had so much fun at one earlier this year before my girl aged out. I really enjoyed seeing her do the distances. She had a great time looking way out. 

Barb,
How's Tito?

George,
If I only did one test on a weekend, I wouldn't get anything done here with so few tests in Alaska.

Holly,
You're doing wonderful!


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## hotel4dogs

Thanks for asking Stacey, he seems okay. I thought I might have imagined a slight limp this morning, but if it was there, it was very slight. We have tracking this afternoon, too.


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## gdgli

Alaska7133 said:


> Tpd5,
> Run the derby! I had so much fun at one earlier this year before my girl aged out. I really enjoyed seeing her do the distances. She had a great time looking way out.
> 
> Barb,
> How's Tito?
> 
> George,
> If I only did one test on a weekend, I wouldn't get anything done here with so few tests in Alaska.
> 
> Holly,
> You're doing wonderful!


I know that you have special issues. Not enough tests.


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## Alaska7133

George,
Do you have any special requirements at tests or trials in your area since you are so close to a major city? Like noise from shotguns or dead ducks flying through the air? Any animal rights people showing up?


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## K9-Design

Barb, do you have different commands or signals for the hunt dead, that look different than a blind? I still haven't wrapped my head around the whole hunt dead thing and how it will compete with "real" errr.....retriever....blinds. 

I am home for only 3 days this week until I leave for another show. Last night the only dog who got trained was Bally, with his pile work. I thought I had agility tonight with Slater but just now read on FB my instructor is in Perry at a trial -- thank god I didn't drive all the way down there to find that out! So more pile work for Bally tonight.


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## hotel4dogs

Only sort of Anney, and Dan says we might be causing a cluster...you know what...by doing this, but we'll sort it out. I send him back on "dead bird". Then when he gets to about the right depth, I whistle sit him. Then the command is "hunt it up" or "find your bird". While it's not ideal, it's a command he will NEVER hear when running a real (LOL) blind. It seems to be working, so far.




K9-Design said:


> Barb, do you have different commands or signals for the hunt dead, that look different than a blind? I still haven't wrapped my head around the whole hunt dead thing and how it will compete with "real" errr.....retriever....blinds.
> 
> I am home for only 3 days this week until I leave for another show. Last night the only dog who got trained was Bally, with his pile work. I thought I had agility tonight with Slater but just now read on FB my instructor is in Perry at a trial -- thank god I didn't drive all the way down there to find that out! So more pile work for Bally tonight.


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## gdgli

Alaska7133 said:


> George,
> Do you have any special requirements at tests or trials in your area since you are so close to a major city? Like noise from shotguns or dead ducks flying through the air? Any animal rights people showing up?


Problems are increasing. At one Hunt Test I understand that the antis sneaked into our parking lot where we store the birds and released the ducks from the crates. It was silly. The handlers got their dogs out and picked up the birds. They had run into the woods.

In another area emotions run high. Bicyclists and hikers and horseback riders are in conflict with the dog people. There are now special training requirements---no flyers. Flyers only during trials and tests.

Noise ordnances have not been used. However, I would guess they may be in the future. What is more common is the use of the Conservation Officer as a tool of harassment with phony complaints similar to what I have encountered when hunting.

At the last trial I attended a hiker complained that guns were going off and she was hit by pellets. Total BS because we hadn't even started the series yet but the Conservation Officer showed up and harassed us. This is the kind of stuff that goes on.


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## hotel4dogs

heehee had to read this twice before I figured out what you were REALLY saying!




gdgli said:


> At the last trial I shot at a hiker.


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## gdgli

hotel4dogs said:


> heehee had to read this twice before I figured out what you were REALLY saying!


I better watch what I write!


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## Loisiana

hotel4dogs said:


> heehee had to read this twice before I figured out what you were REALLY saying!


Ha ha, me too, but I can't help it. Look at the shirt I wore today.  (edit: whoops, well that pic didn't come out right! But you can read it...)


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## hotel4dogs

Love the shirt, I might need one of those!


----------



## boomers_dawn

gdgli said:


> I better watch what I write!


Know your target and beyond ROTFL


----------



## boomers_dawn

We went training last night, what a hot mess.
I got there 10 minutes late, they had decided to set up a double and blind run from the other side of one of the usual ponds to mix it up. 
There was a treacherous trail to the line which actually was good for both mine to work on their fractious heeling to the line. 

The memory bird (singles for Dee Dee) was quite far down the long pond shot by a bumper boy, going through thick lily pads, a long arduous swim. What we didn't realize, there was a big honking white discarded fishing bait container floating along the shore on the way that over-distracted all but one of the dogs, who screwed up another way by going to the old fall.

The dogs who fell for the bait container, you could almost see the thought process ..they would be chugging and churning their way out on line to the mark, see the bait container off to the side, you could almost see the thought process "oh thank goodness something's here, that other one's too far away" only to figure out that's not it, flounder towards the right direction, but eventually needing help because it was still to far off to see, smell, or figure out and the pads were tough to chug through.

I tried to cast Gladys angle back, but she wouldn't listen or work with me, so both mine needed help. The other dogs all handled to the long memory bird.

I opted not to do the blind b/c if she wouldn't work with me on handling to the memory bird, what's the point. We'll have to go back to drills and teamwork.

Dee Dee did ok with help, after giving up on the bait container she decided to head to shore to get a clue from the thrower. :bawling:

None of the dogs did well, I hope they learned to trust where they were going, not the distractions along the way.


----------



## MillionsofPeaches

OMG I totally thought you were saying I shot at a hiker too!!!


----------



## gdgli

MillionsofPeaches said:


> OMG I totally thought you were saying I shot at a hiker too!!!



Time to edit. Please read the edit.


----------



## hotel4dogs

Nope, not going to read it, whatever it says won't be nearly as much fun as what it said originally :



gdgli said:


> Time to edit. Please read the edit.


----------



## Alaska7133

Common George, we know where your heart was!

Any NAHRA people that can answer this question: how often do judges have your dog enter the water from a boat? I haven't trained for that and I've heard NAHRA will do that in any level. I spend most of my time keeping my dogs in our raft so they don't chase birds when we float rivers. Now I'm thinking how can I do something the opposite by telling them to get the bird from the boat?


----------



## boomers_dawn

Alaska7133 said:


> Common George, we know where your heart was!
> 
> Any NAHRA people that can answer this question: how often do judges have your dog enter the water from a boat? I haven't trained for that and I've heard NAHRA will do that in any level. I spend most of my time keeping my dogs in our raft so they don't chase birds when we float rivers. Now I'm thinking how can I do something the opposite by telling them to get the bird from the boat?


I had to do the boat thing at least twice that I can remember.
One of the boat tests was an AKC test, so I can't remember if it was 1 NAHRA test and 1 AKC or 2 NAHRA and 1 AKC.

Only with Boomer in the past, never recently with the girls. I would say I ran him in about 8 NAHRA tests in the past, so it was either 1 of 8 or 2 of 8 with the boat.

The boat was parked at least part way on shore both the times I can remember but I think there was one Hunter test we didn't make it past land and never ended up in the boat, I think one of the judges rowed the boat out into the water with the team in it.

I don't think it's very common to run out of the boat in the water, in fact I've never seen that actually done; maybe they did it later, I had gotten disgusted and left. (that test seemed designed especially to bust everyone's b**** the first series we went out on they made us get in a layout blind covered with a corn cob blanket and pretend to goose hunt lying down )

It's easy to get the dog in the boat with you, just get in and they should follow. They should know by where you are, what you're wearing, and what's happening, that something fun is about to happen!

Everything else you do the same, make them sit at heel if there's room, tell them to stay, they should know the drill. 

I never had any problem with Boomer figuring out how to get in and out of the boat and get the bird. It's good to practice if you have access to the boat, getting in and out on land at least, just to get the mechanics down, it is a little different. Just like it's good practice to train walkups and the handler gun and sitting on the bucket. 

I don't know how dogs get in and out of the boat in the water, I've seen ramps and shelves, I have no plans of going duck hunting and doubt I will ever find out.


----------



## hollyk

Today we did hand thrown technical singles, a 200 yard fairly flat land blind. Then around a 200 yard water mark that was land, water, land, water, land, water because I just wanted to see if she would do it, the gunner was ready to double throw if she needed help but she didn't. 
I have access to some amazing property this week.


----------



## Alaska7133

Has anyone been to a hunt test and see everyone at that level fail? I hadn't seen that until today. I ran NAHRA this weekend. Lucy was in Hunter level. Hunter is a double on land, double on water and a trailing test (find a dead duck dragged through the brush). The judges were over the top jerks. They made the water double so difficult everyone failed, everyone. What a waste of time and effort. Not sure what the point of the test was. There were some very good dogs. The test dog was one of the judge's dogs. He had run the NAHRA national invitational last month. So it was a pretty good dog. We should have squawked more when the dog had to be handled to find the birds, but I think we were all too stunned. What would you do if you saw a ridiculous test and nobody could pass it? The club president was pretty upset. I left after everyone was done, but several people were going to stick around and have it out with the judge. I spoke to our club president, he asked a few questions and didn't offer any thoughts. What would you do?


----------



## boomers_dawn

Alaska7133 said:


> Has anyone been to a hunt test and see everyone at that level fail? What would you do?


I've never been to a test where EVERYONE failed. Seriously? NO ONE passed the test? 

What would I do? I would consult the rule book for whatever venue I was running for guidelines on how to handle complaints and follow those.

I *think* in AKC, if EVERY dog fails, once 3 or 4 dogs have failed, judges are supposed to re-evaluate their test and make changes if needed and have EVERYONE re-run. 

I *think* AKC guidelines for complaints are to bring to the marshal's attention who should then bring it to the test committee for discussion. I'm pretty sure it's considered unsportsmanlike and may even be "not allowed" to complain directly to the judges. 

This is all from past experience having complaints handled incorrectly .. lived and learned. I make a mental note of judges I feel are unfair, don't run under them again, and leave it at that.


----------



## gdgli

Alaska7133 said:


> Has anyone been to a hunt test and see everyone at that level fail? I hadn't seen that until today. I ran NAHRA this weekend. Lucy was in Hunter level. Hunter is a double on land, double on water and a trailing test (find a dead duck dragged through the brush). The judges were over the top jerks. They made the water double so difficult everyone failed, everyone. What a waste of time and effort. Not sure what the point of the test was. There were some very good dogs. The test dog was one of the judge's dogs. He had run the NAHRA national invitational last month. So it was a pretty good dog. We should have squawked more when the dog had to be handled to find the birds, but I think we were all too stunned. What would you do if you saw a ridiculous test and nobody could pass it? The club president was pretty upset. I left after everyone was done, but several people were going to stick around and have it out with the judge. I spoke to our club president, he asked a few questions and didn't offer any thoughts. What would you do?


A couple of things. As a judge I would never run my own dog as test dog. Jerry Mann (AKC) strongly advised against it. What if the dog messes up the test? Wasn't there a test dog available?
Secondly, I would never call out a judge. Poor form and judges talk to each other. 
Third, maybe the dogs just couldn't do the work. This may happen in a stake where there are new dogs. How one set of judges deals with this may not be how I deal with it. I have already said to my co-judge "Yes, the dogs should be able to do it and yes your dogs do it but these dogs are not as good/advanced as your dogs. Let's lighten up".
And finally if the club was not happy, it has options. Get
different judges for future tests.

Be kind to the judges. They did give up their weekend to judge.


----------



## Alaska7133

Several of us talked about running our dogs as the test dog. But none of us thought our dogs that had failed earlier in the day would be able to complete either mark. My guy Reilly had failed the land earlier in the day in the started category (dropped the bird to pee and forgot about it). So we all declined as a group to offer a test dog. So that is why the judge ran his. What would you say to a judge when the judge's national invitational dog has trouble as test dog?

NAHRA events are normally fun. When I don't pass I know it's because I haven't trained enough or I screwed up in some way. This test was designed to be far above the level of a Hunter dog. 

A bunch of us used it as a training opportunity and discussed what we would have to do in training for our dogs to complete the test. 1. Handle on water. 2. De-cheat on water. 3. Swim by. 4. Be able to do land-water-land-water-land and then return. 5. Be able to navigate through muck that is chest deep for long distances.

So after giving it some thought and looking at my dog's skills, I don't know if we could ever get through the test at any point. Lucy's a good girl, but I don't know if she has that skill set or is capable of acquiring that skill set.

The judges on Saturday were very nice and helpful. NAHRA judges normally offer helpful comments and want everybody to have a positive experience. Even if I fail I walk away with a smile.


----------



## boomers_dawn

We did marks today, Dee Dee did all singles, she did great except the last longest land mark in extremely high cover, she got on the wrong side of the road and never got back across, and the longest water mark which none of the dogs could do .. so I didn't feel too bad about that. There were obstacles that seemed to stop everyone.

Gladys did good with the singles, water double, and screwed up the longest water mark. She starts whining once she hits the ground, so no forward motion, no action period until I hear quiet. Her heeling is horrible and her creeping is such that half the time I pick things up myself.

Lots to work on.


----------



## boomers_dawn

I enrolled Dee Dee in another round of field class. 
We did something AMAZING last night!

There were only newbies in class and we were the only "oldbies" so the other ppl didn't have whistles, so dog skool teecher said we would work on obedeens topics.

We never did this in class before, but he gave us an exercise to see where the dogs were with remote obedeens. He told us to put them in a sit/stay, walk about 3 steps away, then tell them "down". None of the dogs could do it. Dee Dee kept crawling over and doing down. He said he wanted them to get used to doing what we said remotely without them coming in toward us, in prep for whistle sitting.

Next we used jump bars layed on the floor, as a barrier, and tried again with the barrier. Dee Dee could do it with the barrier! We did that a few times and I kept adding a couple steps until she was doing it all the way across the ring!

We did some other stuff in between and went back to that at the end of class. I asked if I could try without the barrier and she did it! I did it several more times adding 2 steps, till she was doing it with me across the room. It was so exciting seeing her learn something and progress so quickly.

It made me a little excited to try obedeens with her more in the late fall and winter when the days get too short for so much feeld work :woot2:

We're going feeld training again later today, I imagine Dee Dee will do whatever they set up as Junior singles and Gladys can do a double and work on not whining. They expect us to do their master triple with Gladys but she never does anything right so I'm going back to doubles and work up to memory building with silent rethrows, delays, etc. 

I'm not sure but I think the triples are making her anxiety, whining, and creeping worse. They're giving me anxiety!


----------



## boomers_dawn

Where is everyone?
We were supposed to train tonight, the others are running master this weekend and we were supposed to do marking setups. But one of our groupies didn't show up, I hope nothing bad happened to him. He got us invited to use a field we didn't feel comfortable using without him, so we had to rush and do walking singles before dark.

It worked out perfect for me. Dee Dee did Junior singles. She did a great job.
She's come such a long way in the past month. She's learned to sit still, focus, pay attention, and I feel although she can still make mistakes, get confused, and play games on delivery, she's a pretty solid junior dog. 

She's also happy and seems to enjoy whatever we do together, that makes her so much fun to work with. Love the Dee Dee <3

Gladys we did 2 walking singles. The first one she crept maybe one foot worth, I came sooo close to picking it up myself. The second one she was steady as a rock. That was good, there was no whining and it was more fun and less stressful than usual.

Later I did the focus exercise with them and did remote downs - Dee Dee did it but Gladys didn't. She did one close up. I think I will need to teach Gladys that one, she didn't seem to know what the word "down" meant from 3 steps away


----------



## Alaska7133

Good job DeeDee! She'll be running a derby in no time.

Our club decided to run another started/hunter test in August. We are all very happy. I just hope the club doesn't loose money. So I've been emailing and facebooking to get as many people to sign up as possible. I want to really thank the club for giving us all another chance. Now I have to make sure my dogs pass the tests. Lucy can't break and Reilly can't eat a bird or stop to pee.


On the tests last weekend the dogs had to swim through a peat bog. It was chest deep watery muck. It really freaked out a lot of dogs and wore them out pretty drastically. So last night I got Lucy to a gravel pond for singles. She was literally scared to get in the pond. The bad pond last weekend had such a negative effect. So I switched to happy bumpers and she gingerly got in the water. It was sad to watch. I didn't know how negatively a bad experience could affect a dog. But after 3 bumpers she was her old self and back to flying leaps into the water. Next weekends hunt tests are in old gold mining pits. So they are gravel bottom but with lots of trees and brush right to the edge. I can't find a local pond that I can work her on to mimic that same affect. Darn

Why is finding places to train so hard?


----------



## gdgli

Alaska

I hope that the club finds good judges.


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## gdgli

We got to our training grounds before the others. We worked on some casting drills. We then did some blinds. Next we went to water and did some lining drills. 

The rest of the group showed up and we did a setup that consisted of a double followed by two blinds, all on land. We did well.

Overall a nice day with beautiful weather.


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## gdgli

Hunt test this weekend. And I will be shooting. Of course I will be looking at the Goldens. Buffy is not running, we still need to do some work. I am hoping for good weather.


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## hollyk

Back from my Canadian dog running vacation. 
The CKC MH tests, at least where I was, have much smaller entries then the AKC MH tests.
It was 17 dogs each day and an a complete MH test is run in one day.
So in one weekend you could possible pickup two MH passes. The other difference is there is a quartering test and then a sit to flush instead of AKC land/water series. A cool thing was 13 of the 17 entries were Goldens! 
I had a really fun time and highly recommend the CKC HT's. The smaller gallery was a hoot.
The last few days of my trip Winter and I had a working spot at a Dave Rorem seminar. He was a good speaker with good information, his focus is on making you a better handler. In a working spot, I ran Winter twice each day of the 3 day seminar. 

I was entered in an AKC MH test this coming weekend but have scratch, life has gotten in the way.
But hope I to fit a little training in.


----------



## FTGoldens

hollyk said:


> The last few days of my trip Winter and I had a working spot at a Dave Rorem seminar. He was a good speaker with good information, his focus is on making you a better handler. In a working spot, I ran Winter twice each day of the 3 day seminar.


hollyk,
It sounds like you had a great trip! I'm jealous!!!
I'd love to hear more about the Rorem seminar. I've heard general things about them, but no details. For example, does he critique each handler when they run a dog? Do the people who are not handlers bet much benefit from the seminar by just watching the handlers with their dogs? Does he do a debriefing after each day, to go over big overarching topics? Etc.
FTGoldens


----------



## hotel4dogs

A great training session down at Dan's today. Set up to run a triple, but the monster boy head swung BIG TIME after the first mark went down, so I surprised him and sent him. The next time we set up the triple he was much better. Ran a couple of (very easy) blinds, which he lined. I wanted him to line them, as we're gearing up for a couple of upcoming Spaniel tests.
Did a rather disastrous water blind, followed by a much better water blind. Then off to hunt some quail.
Despite the heat and humidity (which wasn't horrid, but 77 degrees and a bit humid, which is quite hot for upland hunting) he did an outstanding job. A quail had apparently run off, and buried itself down in some very, very thick hedgerow. Have to admit both Dan and I were surprised when Tito flushed the bird out of there, although unfortunately there was no way Dan could make the shot. Dan just turned to me and said, "Wow. THAT's a hunting dog". I'm still grinning. 
Oh, and Tito sat to the flush, even though he was completely out of our eyesight. We had to walk a ways, then cut thru some easier cover, as there was no way a human could go where Tito had been hunting the bird. And there he was, sitting so pretty, waiting to be sent. 
Did I mention I'm grinning?


----------



## hollyk

FTGoldens said:


> hollyk,
> It sounds like you had a great trip! I'm jealous!!!
> I'd love to hear more about the Rorem seminar. I've heard general things about them, but no details. For example, does he critique each handler when they run a dog? Do the people who are not handlers bet much benefit from the seminar by just watching the handlers with their dogs? Does he do a debriefing after each day, to go over big overarching topics? Etc.
> FTGoldens


There is a quiet brief running commentary as you ran. Something like; good whistle or bad handler, good dog, or maybe a casting suggestion if you're not getting what is needed, stuff like that. Then after the run he tells you what he would have done differently and points out the take away teaching points. After each series does an overview of what he saw, often people were making the same mistakes. There was many opportunities to ask questions and he answered them all. In fact the only time you couldn't ask a question was when a dog and handler were working. 
The dogs came to the mat without collars but you were allowed to move wherever you needed to after you kicked them off, including closer to them. If you had total failure you could call your dog back in and put a collar on them. 
Everyone in the gallery could hear the conversation. There was only one holding blind so even the handler waiting to run could watch the dog ahead of them. The only time I missed anything was when i went to get my dog but the working dog cars were parked close.
My training partner had a audit spot and she took alot of notes so I think she got quite a bit out of it. I know she wishes she would have had a working spot. We are both presently training our first MH level dogs.


----------



## boomers_dawn

We trained again tonight, the others are getting ready to run Master tomorrow so we have been training a lot. They set up marks and blinds with concepts, which Dee Dee ran the marks as singles.

Dee Dee did well in heeling, line manners, marking, and perserverance. Her first mark was very hard, thrown back behind a small rise full of thick ferns and weed patch. She seemed to think the mark landed in the patch, when in fact it was well behind the patch. She looked at me and came inwards a few times but praise Baby Jesus stayed out looking around until she found it! She had trouble with another mark but again perservered - black bumper into high grass - this is the problem with land work right now, many fields are too high and uncut. 

Gladys still is refraining from blinds and too difficult drills b/c her fur has bald spots postpartum so she can't wear the collar and doesn't care about my verbal corrections or going out and making her do stuff. One of our training buddies didn't seem to understand why I don't want to train her so I tried to explain she doesn't learn anything and I don't want any bad habits to develop. She was supposed to do 2 singles and the last 2 marks as doubles, but she crept on the first 2 so I picked them up. She's started a new Russian Circus Dog move where she stands on her hind feet. We decided no double. She did not creep on the 3rd mark, moved forward on the last but corrected herself into heel position so I rewarded her for self correcting. She was quieter today too, that was good.


----------



## hollyk

We trained drills and singles the last couple of days to get her buttoned back down after the flurry of tests. Today we did three water singles. However, to add to the difficulty and to work her memory a bit we threw the last one, then I no'ed her off it and ran a shoreline blind then picked up the single. Winter did a nice job.


----------



## boomers_dawn

I don't have much to say today except back to the drawing board but did want to stop by and thank gdg for shooting for us and say Congrats to Hank.
It was nice seeing you guys.


----------



## gdgli

Congrats to Hank. And I believe that your dog titled at the Hunt Test.


----------



## AmbikaGR

Thanks Dawn and George!
Yes Brooke finished her JH yesterday at the Westchester Retriever Club's hunt test due to the fine shooting of George and the efficient marshaling of Dawn!! 
The best part of yesterday was not even the pass and title but the way she got her last duck. Brooke has had an issue with fresh birds since an encounter with a not quite dead pheasant two years ago. And if her bird at a test showed any signs of life she was like "Hey dad it is over there, you want it you come get it." We have worked on it some but not an easy scenario for me to create and work on. So yesterday's test featured a shot flyer on both land and water. So of course I worried about the cripple. No issue on land with shot flyer first and dead, THANKS George. Then we went to water. We were the last of 22 dogs to run on water. The first bird was a dead bird plopped out in front of us. Brooke went hesitantly but she went. Now the flyer. The judges had set the test up that every bird would be sluiced prior to the dog being sent. So her duck hits the water, is sluiced and the judge says "dog". I send her and as she starts to go the duck starts flapping her wing. "OH Sugar Honey Iced Tea" goes through my mind. But Brooke does not slow up or deviate from her line directly to the duck. The wing continues to flap slowly while she continues to swim out for it. Never slowed up the entire way to the bird, she turns and starts her way back I begin to coax her to stay in the water (both water marks really encouraged bank running) and then said the hell with it just bring me the bird anyway you want to. Both judges laughed and said "Yep nit the time to worry about that is it?" She continued to square off the shore and got out of the water behind the gunner station. She pranced all the way back carrying her duck. So looks like although we still have work to do about the "cripple" scenario I think we may be making progress. So again "THANKS George" for just hitting the duck enough to show me the progress we have made. Although I think iit took a couple months off the life of my pacemaker. ;-)


----------



## Alaska7133

Miss Lucy and I ran AKC double header junior hunt test last weekend for the first time. We've been running NAHRA only so far. We passed both times. Weather was mid 40s in the morning and 60 by the end of the day. Rainy and drippy, but hey it's a rain forest so what do you expect at Turnagain pass. 

Event Summary:
Total dogs 87
Individual dog count: 48
Males: 35
Females: 52
Labs: 41
Goldens: 31
Chessies: 11
Flat coats: 2 
Tollers: 2

MH runs 6 dogs and 9 dogs
SH runs 7 and 6 dogs
JH runs 31 and 28 dogs

Do you need a MH or SH pass and want to do it in a small field amongst your own kind, come to Alaska! It might be cold, it might rain, yes it could snow, but it won't be only black dogs! And yes the classes the club did this winter brought in a lot of new dogs. Good for the club members who took the time to teach the classes.


----------



## hotel4dogs

Congrats to both Hank and Stacey!! Great weekend!


----------



## gdgli

Hank, Brooke did a nice job. She had a nice hold on the bird and a helper in the blind did remark that she looked cute. I had a good look at her face and hold as she swam by. I wish you could have seen it from my perspective.


----------



## gdgli

Congratulations Stacey!


----------



## Vhuynh2

Alaska7133 said:


> Miss Lucy and I ran AKC double header junior hunt test last weekend for the first time. We've been running NAHRA only so far. We passed both times. Weather was mid 40s in the morning and 60 by the end of the day. Rainy and drippy, but hey it's a rain forest so what do you expect at Turnagain pass.
> 
> 
> 
> Event Summary:
> 
> Total dogs 87
> 
> Individual dog count: 48
> 
> Males: 35
> 
> Females: 52
> 
> Labs: 41
> 
> Goldens: 31
> 
> Chessies: 11
> 
> Flat coats: 2
> 
> Tollers: 2
> 
> 
> 
> MH runs 6 dogs and 9 dogs
> 
> SH runs 7 and 6 dogs
> 
> JH runs 31 and 28 dogs
> 
> 
> 
> Do you need a MH or SH pass and want to do it in a small field amongst your own kind, come to Alaska! It might be cold, it might rain, yes it could snow, but it won't be only black dogs! And yes the classes the club did this winter brought in a lot of new dogs. Good for the club members who took the time to teach the classes.



Huge congratulations!!


----------



## hollyk

AmbikaGR said:


> Thanks Dawn and George!
> Yes Brooke finished her JH yesterday at the Westchester Retriever Club's hunt test due to the fine shooting of George and the efficient marshaling of Dawn!!
> The best part of yesterday was not even the pass and title but the way she got her last duck. Brooke has had an issue with fresh birds since an encounter with a not quite dead pheasant two years ago. And if her bird at a test showed any signs of life she was like "Hey dad it is over there, you want it you come get it." We have worked on it some but not an easy scenario for me to create and work on. So yesterday's test featured a shot flyer on both land and water. So of course I worried about the cripple. No issue on land with shot flyer first and dead, THANKS George. Then we went to water. We were the last of 22 dogs to run on water. The first bird was a dead bird plopped out in front of us. Brooke went hesitantly but she went. Now the flyer. The judges had set the test up that every bird would be sluiced prior to the dog being sent. So her duck hits the water, is sluiced and the judge says "dog". I send her and as she starts to go the duck starts flapping her wing. "OH Sugar Honey Iced Tea" goes through my mind. But Brooke does not slow up or deviate from her line directly to the duck. The wing continues to flap slowly while she continues to swim out for it. Never slowed up the entire way to the bird, she turns and starts her way back I begin to coax her to stay in the water (both water marks really encouraged bank running) and then said the hell with it just bring me the bird anyway you want to. Both judges laughed and said "Yep nit the time to worry about that is it?" She continued to square off the shore and got out of the water behind the gunner station. She pranced all the way back carrying her duck. So looks like although we still have work to do about the "cripple" scenario I think we may be making progress. So again "THANKS George" for just hitting the duck enough to show me the progress we have made. Although I think iit took a couple months off the life of my pacemaker. ;-)


I can heard your pride in her and it makes me smile!
Well done team Brooke.


----------



## hollyk

alaska7133 said:


> miss lucy and i ran akc double header junior hunt test last weekend for the first time. We've been running nahra only so far. We passed both times. Weather was mid 40s in the morning and 60 by the end of the day. Rainy and drippy, but hey it's a rain forest so what do you expect at turnagain pass.
> 
> Event summary:
> Total dogs 87
> individual dog count: 48
> males: 35
> females: 52
> labs: 41
> goldens: 31
> chessies: 11
> flat coats: 2
> tollers: 2
> 
> mh runs 6 dogs and 9 dogs
> sh runs 7 and 6 dogs
> jh runs 31 and 28 dogs
> 
> do you need a mh or sh pass and want to do it in a small field amongst your own kind, come to alaska! It might be cold, it might rain, yes it could snow, but it won't be only black dogs! And yes the classes the club did this winter brought in a lot of new dogs. Good for the club members who took the time to teach the classes.


WOOHOO x 2!!!!!!


----------



## boomers_dawn

NICE PASTIES Miss Lucy! Congratulations


----------



## Alaska7133

So I'd say that Hank and I had a good weekend! Good job Hank!


----------



## gdgli

I went to obedience class from 6-7 PM. Not one to waste an opportunity, I used the field behind the building to first do casting drills and then four cold blinds. We had a great time with lots of success. I am very happy with our progress. I just want to resist the temptation to test too early.

Tomorrow some water work.


----------



## Alaska7133

George,
What level are you wanting to test at with your girl?


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## gdgli

I could enter her in SH right now. However my goal is to train her to MH standards before I enter her in SH. I made a big mistake in running her in JH too early. Her skills were there but she was immature and she quickly learned that she could play while in the test situation. I became very frustrated and I swore that I wouldn't make that mistake again. 

I feel that there is an inherent evil in testing. I will do what I can to use my experience to avoid future problems. And I would offer my advice to those who own the same kind of dog. In fact I recently gave a presentation to my club on how to manage the high flying dog.

I wouldn't have a problem if I wanted a hunting dog capable of doing MH work. The problem arises when I want to put her in a test situation.


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## tpd5

gdgli said:


> I went to obedience class from 6-7 PM. Not one to waste an opportunity, I used the field behind the building to first do casting drills and then four cold blinds. We had a great time with lots of success. I am very happy with our progress. I just want to resist the temptation to test too early.
> 
> Tomorrow some water work.


George, 

I am in the same situation. I held off running junior until he was beyond ready and we breezed right through it which was fun. Now I have a serious itch to start running seasoned and senior but am trying to hold off until next year.


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## gdgli

tpd5 said:


> George,
> 
> I am in the same situation. I held off running junior until he was beyond ready and we breezed right through it which was fun. Now I have a serious itch to start running seasoned and senior but am trying to hold off until next year.


I think that it is wise for us to keep a clear goal in mind. I see two possible goals: Well trained dog vs. Dog running hunt tests. Although one would think that they are the same they frequently are not. I hate to sound like I'm preaching but I feel that this is the reality.

Good luck Todd.


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## gdgli

gdgli said:


> I could enter her in SH right now. However my goal is to train her to MH standards before I enter her in SH. I made a big mistake in running her in JH too early. Her skills were there but she was immature and she quickly learned that she could play while in the test situation. I became very frustrated and I swore that I wouldn't make that mistake again.
> 
> I feel that there is an inherent evil in testing. I will do what I can to use my experience to avoid future problems. And I would offer my advice to those who own the same kind of dog. In fact I recently gave a presentation to my club on how to manage the high flying dog.
> 
> I wouldn't have a problem if I wanted a hunting dog capable of doing MH work. The problem arises when I want to put her in a test situation.


I better add something. I have successfully addressed all issues. And I am very happy with her work.


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## Claudia M

Sorry I have not contributed here much. We started training again in the field in May. Rose had a long recovery after the OSS at the end of March compiled with an infection afterwards. 

Congrats to Hank & Brooke, Stacey & Lucy.


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## boomers_dawn

I brought Gladys to field class last night. We stopped by the pattern field and did one pattern blind before class started - it was too hot to do more.

Gladys busted out of the car and ran all around looking refusing to come when called - no collar 

At class, we worked on steady drills, heeling on both sides, and she did the remote down from 6 steps !!!!! It was fun working together, interestingly she was good with the obeds focus, it was a small class and she seemed to enjoy the attention. Great teambuilding!

For many reasons, our training schedule will be less intense in the next few weeks, so planning more quiet activities like drills and obedience. We're going to stop by obeeds club nite for focus only, and I'm debating re-starting rentals to do drills and obeds in the a/c.


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## gdgli

Buffy and I worked in the shade of trees this morning. We did some casting drills and ran some blinds past distractions. Too hot to do much else.


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## AmbikaGR

The girls and I have been busy with drills this week.
Tuesday and Wednesday mornings we drove up to a friend's place that have a pond suitable for swim-by and nice land for big t work. 
So both days we did some T work and mixed in some casting with a bumper in their mouths. Went very well with both. 
We then moved to the pond. Did some casting in to the water first and again both girls did great. 
Then moved on to some "T" work in water with Oriana and seeing that went well started swim by with her. She got the idea rather quickly after a couple casts "back" into the water when she would drift into the shoreline and get her feet on the bottom. I finished her up with a few more back to the pile across the pond both from the side and from in front. And we then quit with an awesome session.
I then moved onto Brooke with the same regimen. She did not get the idea as quickly and went back to doing the water T and when she took the side cast I would quickly get to the opposite end and call her to me once she got the bumper. She was not getting the idea of staying in the water once she got the bumper in my early attempts at swim by. I also had the side bumpers very visible on the pond bank and then on my back casts she took an true line but as she entered the watered veered off to one of the side piles. So I learned from now on to put the side bumpers up higher where they are not so visible. But it took me two days to figure this one out. So we will see if it helps tomorrow when I make that change. 
But all in all I was very happy (and I guess lucky) how well it went. Both dogs, especially Brooke, showed a good ability to tread water. Oriana tended to drift a little more but I think doing more backs as opposed to overs in water could help with that. 
I am exhausted after two days of this but am determined to make the effort required to get us through it. And by writing here I am sort of twisting my own arm to ensure I do. 
Friday back up to continue with this. Saturday we have 5 obedience match entries. Saturday going to a mini seminar to see Lorrie Jolly. Then plan is Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday next week back to these drills. Then Thursday obed class for out last tune up for All-Star Saturday and Sunday out by York, PA.


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## gdgli

I hope to get out in about an hour. We are working on blinds and have been doing the four phase drill.

We have a club training day on Saturday.


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## Loisiana

Went to training group yesterday. We focused on water marks landing in cover. Three singles around the pond. Flip did fine. I had them go ahead and throw a second bumper as soon as Phoenix got in the water to help him out since he's never worked cover in water before. We usually do a different set up after the first, but it was so hot we decided to call it a day.

Today was a day of beauty work, getting pond crud out of the dog's coat. My first time to use the cowboy magic. Phoenix says he much preferred yesterday, field and dock diving, to the blow dryer, grinder, and drying coat of today.


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## Maxs Mom

Cowboy Magic is the Golden owners friend 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Claudia M

We concentrated on nothing but single marks on land and water. Had a tough time couple weeks ago with water singles. Bumper thrown in water after two little islands. Dog had to leave from land into water, get on the island, back int he water back on the island and back in water. They both went for it but then went back on land and returned either on land (Darcy) or with feet in the water at the shore (Rose). 
I was afraid to repeat that scenario but the guy who trains his labs there he said to try it again. To my amazement they both got it! When we did bumpers Darcy went nuts. She was looking for a bird, took the bumper but dropped it to look for a bird. After couple other bumpers thrown she finally gave up looking for a bird and came back. After Rose went and got her bumper Kevin said to send Rose after Darcy's bumpers. "Are you crazy? She has never done water blinds!". Well, she just did. 

Sometimes they surprise you in a good way and sometimes they just make you look like the biggest clown in the world!


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## hotel4dogs

We're running Upland flushing (Spaniel) tests this weekend.
I have found that checking the weather every 10 minutes doesn't change the forecast <<sigh>>. Supposed to be hot, humid, no breeze, and storms rolling in and out. About as bad as you can get. Anyone who hunts upland knows what I mean when I say it's gawd-awful hot for the dogs, much worse than running marks. Not sure he'll even be able to run tomorrow, as he's one of the last dogs to run and it will be miserable. 
Can only hope they're wrong....

edit to add...I also don't expect that I will have any internet service until I get back.


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## Claudia M

yup Barb. It was so nice for the past couple weeks. In the low 70s with a nice breeze. Since Wednesday we had storms, and tomorrow it is called for 89 degrees with thunderstorms in the evening. I stopped looking at the weather report about an hour ago because every time I looked the temperatures were rising instead of going down. grrr. 

For once I wish the weatherman is WRONG.


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## hollyk

Trained today, I was going to run a water triple but had way too much head swinging with the first mark so that was quickly changed to singles. We ran a really nice water blind set up, they had to swim by a point then it turned into a long shoreline blind that back sided one of the guns from the singles. Winter did a nice job, my friend's young Lab was a little influenced by the gun as she swam by but they worked it out fairly quickly. It did serve to remind me how far we have come. 
Entering a couple of MH tests next month.


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## Claudia M

Well, I ran my very first Junior Hunt test, handling both girls and they both did it! It was long and hot and tiring for a Double Junior. But they both got their legs!


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## boomers_dawn

Claudia M said:


> Well, I ran my very first Junior Hunt test, handling both girls and they both did it! It was long and hot and tiring for a Double Junior. But they both got their legs!


How exciting, congratulations!


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## Vhuynh2

Claudia M said:


> Well, I ran my very first Junior Hunt test, handling both girls and they both did it! It was long and hot and tiring for a Double Junior. But they both got their legs!



Congratulations!


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## hollyk

Claudia M said:


> Well, I ran my very first Junior Hunt test, handling both girls and they both did it! It was long and hot and tiring for a Double Junior. But they both got their legs!


Yippee x 2!


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## gdgli

Congratulations Claudia!


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## 2golddogs

Congratulations Claudia!


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## Claudia M

Hope to see you next Saturday Rita!


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## 2golddogs

I plan on being there. See you then.


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## AmbikaGR

That is OUTSTANDING news!!! Congrats!!! :banana::rockon:


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## Alaska7133

Congratulations! Good job!


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## MillionsofPeaches

yay I'm so happy for you guys, Claudia!


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## Claudia M

MillionsofPeaches said:


> yay I'm so happy for you guys, Claudia!


Thank you Shelby! Yesterday evening I really wished I would have done this sooner with Rose as you suggested! 
I think I lost 5 lbs trying to cover my nerves from the dogs and juggling two dogs between the two tests for the very first time.

I am proud of both girls! They both marked good in both land and water. We had two water to land marks and two water marks where they had to swim thru some mud at the bottom. Rose's long legs slowed her down in the mud but she did it. Darcy had to vocalize how hard it was to swim thru it with an umm ummm ummm! Still have to work with Darcy on bringing straight to hand from the water. She puts it down, shakes picks it up and brings to hand. Then she has to go and see what the judge was doing and give her a quick kiss before we leave. 

The first land test was nice, over a little hill and up the hill. Second land test I freaked out! Apparently there have been skunks showing up at the edge of the woods. I could smell them in the holding blind with Rose. I kept on whispering to her. "Ducks no skunks! Ducks no skunks! get the ducks!" She got the first duck and sent her for the second one. She went and then took a peek in the woods. All I could think was DUCK DUCK DUCK PLEASE DO NOT CHASE A SKUNK. But she moved her head back to the duck and got it.


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## TrailDogs

Nice work, all of you! It sounds like you had a great weekend.


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## hollyk

I bet the judges were thinking "ducks no skunks" too. 
Sounds like you had a wonderful time with your _Retrievers_.



Claudia M said:


> Thank you Shelby! Yesterday evening I really wished I would have done this sooner with Rose as you suggested!
> I think I lost 5 lbs trying to cover my nerves from the dogs and juggling two dogs between the two tests for the very first time.
> 
> I am proud of both girls! They both marked good in both land and water. We had two water to land marks and two water marks where they had to swim thru some mud at the bottom. Rose's long legs slowed her down in the mud but she did it. Darcy had to vocalize how hard it was to swim thru it with an umm ummm ummm! Still have to work with Darcy on bringing straight to hand from the water. She puts it down, shakes picks it up and brings to hand. Then she has to go and see what the judge was doing and give her a quick kiss before we leave.
> 
> The first land test was nice, over a little hill and up the hill. Second land test I freaked out! Apparently there have been skunks showing up at the edge of the woods. I could smell them in the holding blind with Rose. I kept on whispering to her. "Ducks no skunks! Ducks no skunks! get the ducks!" She got the first duck and sent her for the second one. She went and then took a peek in the woods. All I could think was DUCK DUCK DUCK PLEASE DO NOT CHASE A SKUNK. But she moved her head back to the duck and got it.


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## hotel4dogs

Great job Claudia!


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## hotel4dogs

We had a mixed weekend. Unfortunately, no Master Hunter Upland title for us yet. He needed 2 passes, and only got 1, so now we have 1 more to go yet.

Saturday he didn't pass. It was for a variety of things, none of them major, but just a performance that didn't really add up to a Master level dog. First, when quartering he was very strongly covering the right side of the field, and not much the left side. While he would take my change direction whistle readily, he wasn't doing it nearly as independently as a Master level dog should have. Why wasn't he? Because the birds were all on the right side of the field. But they are still supposed to cover the entire field, to be sure there isn't a bird out there that got missed. 
Secondly, he over-ran the first bird (only about 20 yards off the start line, if that) and never recovered to find it. That wouldn't have been a failure in and of itself, as the bird might have wandered off between being planted and his running, but it didn't help. 
The thing that totally was the final straw was that one of the birds he found and flushed got shot and fell in the field right near where they had been putting the live birds for the junior and senior level dogs to find and flush. He couldn't seem to break out of that scent area and find "his" dead bird (the other birds were gone, of course, but there had been 20 of them there and the scent was very strong). The birds had been planted in fairly heavy cover, and his bird fell in fairly light cover. He kept going back and forth between where his eyes told him the bird should be, about 20 feet away, and where the scent (and his instincts--heavy cover) told him the bird should be. He did finally find the bird and come back with it, but they said it took him too long, so he failed. Ah well.
I was disappointed, but not in him, because he never left the AOF, and put up a diligent hunt until he did come back with the bird. Interestingly, in a retriever test that would have been a pass, but not in a Spaniel test. 

Sunday he did a great job, and everyone was suitably impressed, lol. One of the judges told me it had been a pleasure to judge my dog, he was a joy to watch. And when we were all hanging out, a judge we had run under before (who was gunning for this test) was telling everyone, "I LOVE this dog. He is an awesome hunting dog, I'd love to take him to south dakota for pheasant" and so on and so on. Which coming from someone who runs Spaniels in hunt tests and field trials really made me proud. So we did get a pass/ribbon on Sunday. It was pretty funny, all kinds of people came to the field to watch his run, and the other judge commented to me that "he really has quite a fan club!". The Spaniel people have been so kind, supportive, and downright wonderful.

A couple of people came up and asked me, on Sunday, why I hadn't helped him out on Saturday (handled him) when he couldn't come up with the bird. My answer..."didn't know I could!!". But in retrospect, it's a good thing I didn't know. I try to NEVER handle him on a mark, as a while back we had some problems with him popping on a mark if he had to put up a long hunt. So even though it *caused* the fail, from the viewpoint of where we hope to head in the future it was for the better that I didn't handle him.

Now we need to hope we get into the tests that are August 30 and 31....


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## Golden Gibby

*Now we need to hope we get into the tests that are August 30 and 31....* 

FYI If you are talking about the test in southern Wisconsin I talked to the test secretary last night and they have openings. She thought they had 20 some dogs currently.


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## hotel4dogs

Hey, good to see you! Are you going to the tests by any chance? Yes, it's the WESSA test at Bong that weekend.
That's good news that they don't have a lot of dogs (for me, not for them, lol). The issue we have is that if Spaniels want to enter they will bump the retrievers and take the Spaniel entries. Last year they ran a full test of 50 dogs, but we did get in, there were 7 retrievers entered, so I am hopeful for this year. 




Golden Gibby said:


> *Now we need to hope we get into the tests that are August 30 and 31....*
> 
> FYI If you are talking about the test in southern Wisconsin I talked to the test secretary last night and they have openings. She thought they had 20 some dogs currently.


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## hotel4dogs

on an entirely different note, a guy at the Spaniel tests was loving on Tito endlessly. He told me a bit misty-eyed that he had had a Golden, best hunting dog he ever had, but would never have another one.
He said he lost the dog at 10 years old to cancer, and said that, of all the dogs he had had in his life, he would never get over losing that one. 
So he said never again. Now he has spaniels.


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## hollyk

hotel4dogs said:


> on an entirely different note, a guy at the Spaniel tests was loving on Tito endlessly. He told me a bit misty-eyed that he had had a Golden, best hunting dog he ever had, but would never have another one.
> He said he lost the dog at 10 years old to cancer, and said that, of all the dogs he had had in his life, he would never get over losing that one.
> So he said never again. Now he has spaniels.


I have had a few people tell me that after losing a Golden they had to switch breeds. They thought it would be too hard to have the same breed again.


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## Golden Gibby

We are planning on trying to run WESSA on Saturday, IF we pass our senior test at the Michigan Flyways test. I don't want to run a spaniel test until we are done with the retriever tests for the year. If things go well in Michigan we'll try to get in WESSA at the senior level. We probably won't go beyond senior in the spaniel tests because I don't keep Gibby steady on the flush when we hunt so he usually is not very steady at the test. I do like the spaniel tests. I think they do a nice job simulating a real hunt.


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## hotel4dogs

Oh do make a point of coming to say hi to Tito and me! It will be great to see you again.
Good luck at Flyways, go get those chickens.
We are doing it the other way around, we are going to finish the Spaniel tests first and then go back to retriever tests. Doing the Spaniel tests has really done a world of good for Tito's confidence, especially in hunting up a difficult mark. 
Hope to see you.



Golden Gibby said:


> We are planning on trying to run WESSA on Saturday, IF we pass our senior test at the Michigan Flyways test. I don't want to run a spaniel test until we are done with the retriever tests for the year. If things go well in Michigan we'll try to get in WESSA at the senior level. We probably won't go beyond senior in the spaniel tests because I don't keep Gibby steady on the flush when we hunt so he usually is not very steady at the test. I do like the spaniel tests. I think they do a nice job simulating a real hunt.


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## Claudia M

2golddogs said:


> I plan on being there. See you then.


Already signed up. I sure hope we get to be in the same group this time!


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## boomers_dawn

Took Dee Dee to feeld class last night. We worked on whistle sits and the back pile.
When we were inside the club, she got distracted by herself in the mirror. I was like seriously? I guess she's not as mature as I expect of her. Boomer and Gladys had more focus and I'm more used to their crash helmet style. Although she tries very hard to be obedient and do the right thing.

Some of the other students asked about decoys. Dog skool teecher went through his 3Ds of dog training - distance, duration, and distraction. He said they can be a definite distraction to young dogs and 1/3 of the junior dogs he judged last weekend fell for the decoys. 

So ... I guess I re-adjust my expectations and keep training for what they can do now. No plans to run anyone in anything.


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## Alaska7133

Dawn,
Can you break down how you teach whistle sits? For whatever reason I'm not moving very far with it. I want to make sure I have all the steps in place before I move away from Lucy. Any chance you can give some descriptions of how you do it? Thanks


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## boomers_dawn

Alaska7133 said:


> Dawn,
> Can you break down how you teach whistle sits? For whatever reason I'm not moving very far with it. I want to make sure I have all the steps in place before I move away from Lucy. Any chance you can give some descriptions of how you do it? Thanks


 
Sure! We start in class with them right in front of us on leash.
We start with watch because we don't want them to sit just any-which-aways, we want them to sit facing us.

Then we do "watch" tweet.

Then we progress to "sit" tweet - the watch should be built in with the tweet now.

Then just the tweet.

Then we move away a bit on the leash. Then we start moving around the room with them on leash. 

**Only treat by going up to them where they are sitting b/c the reward is for sitting**


Then we do stuff like someone else holds the leash, tweet, go over and reward them where they are sitting.

You can also go outside and use a fencepost or tree, tie them to something, tweet, go over and reward them while they are sitting.


If they're having problems they can be prompted by saying "Sit" or if you have a helper on the other end of the leash then can help them sit.

I hope this makes sense. 
I guess the nutshell is start with them right in front of you then build the distance. As we all know it gets hard to correct timely at distance.

Add dog skool teechers 3 Ds - distance, duration, and distraction and we can see why if they're 100 yards away running around the field with interesting sights, smells, and objects, they might not do it so reliably!!

ETA: This is just the steps of how we do it in class - addressing problems and invididual dog issues is beyond my scope 
that's what we have dog skool teecher for LOL


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## gdgli

We had a great day training today. We met up with two other people for a total of 6 dogs. 

Buffy and I continued with the four phase drill. Then at the end I decided to give her a treat. I gave her two 250 yard singles. Why is it a treat? I am always giving her marks that are shorter rather than longer. She just wants to run long so I practice short. That's why the long marks were a treat. Came back with the second mark, delivered the bumper, and was as happy as a pig in a mudhole.


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## AmbikaGR

Well July has come to an end for us and all in all I am quite happy - if not exhausted - with the progress we made. And that does not include finishing up Brooke's JH (and UDX) this month.
I pushed myself to get out to a friend's a little over an hour away 6 out of the last 9 days. We had planned to go today but on my way up my dental bridge chipped so I turned around and tried to get in to see my dentist. Unfortunately could not get to see him today (yet FORTUNATELY will get in tomorrow). Anyway we have made great progress with handling, both land and water. I attempted to get through swim-by but I now realize our water foundation was not solid enough yet to move onto it. So I did a lot of water drills similar to the t on land but in water and they both seemed to get it. We won't get back to this to sometime next week as Friday we leave for the All Star Performance Dog tournament in York, PA. 
See you all next month in the August field thread. :wavey:


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## hotel4dogs

We had a fun day today at Dan's. Started with some water drills, nothing spectacular, just necessary. Some technical singles, and then a couple of water marks. Again, nothing hard or impressive. 
FINALLY got some live pheasants. The session ended with some awesome upland hunting! All we've had recently is little bitty quail, so the pheasants were a welcome change.


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## hollyk

We trained yesterday with the Pro, first time in about 6 weeks. The set up was multiples with flier and a long entry shoreline blind that had tiny point to go over. Marks were fine. I took a bit of time lining up for the blind so she would take the correct opening in the grass at the edge of the pond. One slot to the left and it put them too fat. Winter hit the correct slot with momentum and on line. She carried the line and was going to skim by the point, good doggie. Whistled and casted her on the point. She got on the point and carried the line right over it. One more whistle close to the end to keep her tight to the shore and she was there. WooHoo! We have had our share of water blind issues, getting good initial lines, popping, scalloping,....Sometimes I wondered if it would ever come together but I think we are on the right track now. Our water blinds have been much better lately and yesterday's was perfect. It feels like we are finally on the same page. I love training and running blinds.


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## Claudia M

I gave myself and the girls a break after this weekend. We did a couple singles and doubles in the back yard this evening. Hope that we can do better at training this Saturday. Both girls are to go into heat in August. I wish it wasn't the case as the VA law finally allowed fliers back beginning of August.


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