# I need help!!!!!!!!



## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

We just got snow not much maybe 3in this past week tuesday I think. Anyways BaWaaJige doesnt like the snow on his avery hex bummper. He fiddles with it will pick it up shake his head and drop it and pounce on ithe will carry it by the rope. 

Today I bought him a cloth bumper hoping this would help it was some better. I should have let him play first as he was in his crate for 6hrs the longest he has ever been crated so he was a bit stir crazy. I would like to go out now that he has his ants out of pants but it is too dark to see.

My question is how do I get him to bring back a cold hard snow packed bumper? 

Should I put him back on a long line and just toss it a little ways out and then when he picks up reel him in? Should I let him play with the cloth one( the first cloth bumper he has had) and praise when he picks it up? 

Sure hope someone can help me with this. We do have a training next friday and I will ask the guys for help too. Thank you

p.s. BaWaaJige is 6.5mos old and up until tuesday was doing great with all of his retrieves.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

A few questions for you. When you are throwing the bumpers, are you actively training, or just throwing for fun/exercise? If you are looking just to get some of his energy drained, I would recommend not using a bumper at all. Using a bumper this way kind of invites playing around and mishandling. I have learned this lesson recently. Now when bumpers come out, Riot knows he is "working" (Super fun work, but it has expectations). I guess what I am saying is, just get out a ball and don't worry about the bumper. That way it doesn't matter. Sure, it is kind of ignoring the problem, but right now you don't really have any way to work through the messing around. Not sure if you are planning on force fetching, but that would be when you start to put "rules" around handling the bumper.

Now, if you are actively training, and this is the response you are getting, I think using a long line would be a good idea. Or try a throw where the bumper doesn't land in the snow but on a clear spot.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

I am trying to actively train. Today I stopped when he refused to bring the bumper back. Tonight I was just tossing the new bumper and praiseing on every return as he had not had this kind of bumper before. No I was not planning in force fetching he has been delieving to hand up until tuesday with out any troubles. 

I wish I had an area that didnt have snow but my whole yard is snow covered. I would have to drive 17 miles to find a parking lot that didnt have snow on the ground. 

I think tomorrow I will try the long line.


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

I really like the DT softmouth trainers dummies. They stay nice and soft in Minnesota winters. I wish you lived closer, I would give you one.

Soft-Mouth Trainer Regular Dummy from DT Systems.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

Good call on stopping when he started refusing. I think that's was the best way to deal with it. Try the long line and get him super happy! Maybe even hold him back so that he really really really wants that bumper. If you get a pick up, let him hold onto it, praise, then quit. 

Good luck! Stay warm!


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

Thats Stretch I am going to order a couple of those I am sure my sister would like one for her dog too.

Yep we will see how tomorrow goes I am going to pull out the long line and do a some short tosses. I will let you know how it goes.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

My dogs don't like the Avery Hex bumpers in the winter, either (and neither do I-they are deadly when cold!). I prefer canvas in the winter.

I think the real answer to your question is to take him through a formal force fetch program. Then he can be expected to pick up anything, any time, anywhere.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

General V said:


> No I was not planning in force fetching he has been delieving to hand up until tuesday with out any troubles.


So have you now seen the light? 



> I think tomorrow I will try the long line.


Probably the best thing for a non-FF'd dog. Or, use birds instead. Best of luck.


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## UplandHntr (Feb 24, 2011)

His teeth hurt
he's teething
nothing to do with a hard or frozen bumper. Give it time and work on some other things until his big dog teeth are in.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Our dogs love any kind of bumper and I'd think a snow laden one would feel good for teething. Just keep at it. Our dogs live to retrieve.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

In cold climates plastic bumpers need to be put away for winter. If Jige is done teething (and at 6 1/2 months I would expect he is) use canvas bumpers, DFT's or birds. Store your DFT's inside where it's warm and you'll get a toss or two out of them before they get too uncomfortable for the pup to hold. 

Real birds are best because they have lots of scent and you need that when the snow gets deeper and the birds sink.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

This morning went better. He didnt dig at the cloth bumper and he carried right not by the string which I was happy about. My son just headed out to do some work with him. Jige seems to really like the cloth bumper so I need to pick up atleast one more. Plus I will talk to my friend about getting a couple of dead birds.

P.s. Jige has all of his adult teeth so that isnt the issue I think he didnt like the frozen bumper.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

If you are serious about wanting to do hunt tests and want to do more than just JH/WC, I think you need to sit down and do some serious thinking about how you plan to go forward. Do you not plan to force fetch because you just don't think he needs it, or because you are set against using it? If you have no plan to force fetch your dog then you need to really do some research and study up under some people that have successfully put upper level titles on their dogs without doing FF. It's not impossible, but you need to have other tools to be prepared to use so you know what to do when a retrieving issue comes up.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

Yes I am serious about putting titles on him and I guess I thought I was coming up with a plan by asking those of you that have been doing this longer than 4 months what to do. I have told all of you this is my first golden I have read books on them but that is not the same as talking one on one with a person that owns and does what I want to do with my dog. This is his first time of Jige not doing what I have trained him to do so far. This is his first experience with snow. 

My reason for not FF is that I dont feel he needs it. He does bring back anything I toss out for him and he has delieved to hand since he was 9wks old.

My son just came in and said that he was so much better during this training brought back the bumper everytime with out issues only had troubles when a wild rabbit ran across the yard.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

I agree with Swampy about the plastic bumpers in cold climates--in my Canadian neck of the woods those Avery hexabumpers are particularly bad--most of us who did have them got rid of them. I tend to use closed-cell foam bumpers over the winter. Dokkens makes some and so does Remington now. I also prefer them to canvas bumpers when there is wet sticky snow as then I find the canvas bumpers turn into snow logs!

FF or not is really not about whether the dog "needs" it--it is about the approach to training you are going to take. All my dogs are FF, because that is the way I train, and it gives me the tools I need for that time the dogs decides to do its own thing! If you are working with people who use a fairly traditional Carr-based appraoch to retriever training then it is going to be harder for you to get the hands-on help you will need to progress beyond introductory work. If you are going to try an alternate approach you will need to work very hard right now to reinforce that obedience and build that conditioned retrieve. Teach in increments, proof, and make sure you have the tools in place to deal with non-compliance. Get your hands on some literature, and READ!!! If you PM me with your email I can send you a copy of an article I wrote for the GRCC magazine which has a reading list and some useful web resources in it.


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## KathyG (Nov 21, 2011)

> My reason for not FF is that I dont feel he needs it. He does bring back anything I toss out for him and he has delieved to hand since he was 9wks old.


Your dog is very young. Its great he has a natual desire to retrieve and deliver to hand. However, if you don't shape/condition/force a retrieve behvior now, you will have nothing to work with when he does refuse to deliver....which apparently he is already starting to do. With his natural talents, it should be easy. You can call it what you want, but life is more clear and fair to a dog who has a trained retrieve. Criteria is that when I say fetch, you run out as fast as you can, immediatley pick up the retrieve object and run directly back just as fast. You sit and hold without mouthing, until I tell you to release. You do this if it is cold, wet, dark, a 100 yard retrieve in a stick pond or you just don't feel like it. That's a trained retrieve. Its a beautiful thing.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

*Where are the birds?*

...Because the were not at Long Point on the north shore of Lake Erie yesterday!!! There had been tons of birds there on Friday (limiting out by 11am!) but by Sunday it was like a duck ghost town! Are you seeing fresh birds in Ohio/Penn/NY, anyone?


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