# Recall HELP?!?



## kelseypr95 (Jul 5, 2016)

I am at a total loss! I don't know if it is a respect issue or what I am doing wrong?? My 7 month old guy absolutely refuses to come when I call him. The only way he will come is if I have something super tasty for him and wave it around in the air and even then it could take a while. We have practiced on a tether where I call him and if he does not come right away I pull him to me and reward him at the end. Has done nothing. When he knows he's on the tether he listens even worse! I tried to make sure that every time I called him it was for something positive whether it was play or treats or praise so that he would want to come..... nope. Like I said, even the treats hardly work. What can I do?? Did I mess it up with too many treats?? He is the same with retrieving. He will go right after the ball but won't bring it back! Help please??


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

7 months is very young to be hoping for a reliable recall. Unless he has a very compliant nature, he's at the age of pushing the envelope and if he's interested in something that more intriguing than whatever treat is in your hand, it's not looking good for you. Be honest with yourself, how long have you truly been working hard on a daily basis on recall? It really does take a lot of reps. Have you been consistent with the rewards and the word you use for the command? If you try working on this when he's actually hungry, it may help. Only practice when he's hungry and make sure that the treats you use are amazing. Start making pretty sure you know you're going to be successful. (don't try calling him away from a squirrel etc. ) You could also do practice on a long line in the driveway. Have him practice sit/stays. Call him to you and reward him with the treat. You could even condition it to a whistle. It's just going to take a lot of repetition.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Your puppy sounds very much like my Buffy. Buffy is extremely high drive, likes to run which is a self rewarding behavior, and is by far the most independent dog that I have ever seen. Buffy is eight and to this day if I throw a ball for play she does not bring it back. Buffy comes from a very strong working background.

How similar are these traits? 
Also, as nolefan said, your dog is young.


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## Rambo's mom (Apr 30, 2016)

This is what our trainer did to teach recall. Rambo was about 10 months old when we started practicing this, and it amazing how fast he comes running when I call "Rambo, come". 

We started this in the house, and then moved to the backyard. I would throw a treat as far as I could, and yell "find it". He would run to find it. After he would finish chewing it, I would run and yell "come", with my hand held in back of me with a couple of treats held out. He would run after me, gobble up the treats and we would repeat. Over and over again. All the time, everyday!! It is still his favorite game. He is 17 months now, and we still play it. The only difference now, is I try to throw the treats so he really has to search for them.

Now, when I need him to come, it just takes one "come", and he runs like the wind. 

Its a fun way to teach it. I hope it works for you if you try it. The trainer did say to use two to three treats in your hand on the recall, in order to make it high value. 

If you can figure out how to get Truman to retrieve a ball, pass it on. Rambo and I are hopeless. 
Good luck!


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## kelseypr95 (Jul 5, 2016)

nolefan said:


> 7 months is very young to be hoping for a reliable recall. Unless he has a very compliant nature, he's at the age of pushing the envelope and if he's interested in something that more intriguing than whatever treat is in your hand, it's not looking good for you. Be honest with yourself, how long have you truly been working hard on a daily basis on recall? It really does take a lot of reps. Have you been consistent with the rewards and the word you use for the command? If you try working on this when he's actually hungry, it may help. Only practice when he's hungry and make sure that the treats you use are amazing. Start making pretty sure you know you're going to be successful. (don't try calling him away from a squirrel etc. ) You could also do practice on a long line in the driveway. Have him practice sit/stays. Call him to you and reward him with the treat. You could even condition it to a whistle. It's just going to take a lot of repetition.


I have been consistent with the word I use for the command and with treats but I have probably not practiced as much as I should have. Like I said he does kind of okay if I have good treats for him but the issue is if I do not have them he completely ignores me. I would love to be able to take him off leash different places at some point so I really want to get down a solid recall. It is true that he is pushing the envelope, he has done that since he was a puppy! Always testing me. Thank you! I will keep practicing.


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## kelseypr95 (Jul 5, 2016)

gdgli said:


> Your puppy sounds very much like my Buffy. Buffy is extremely high drive, likes to run which is a self rewarding behavior, and is by far the most independent dog that I have ever seen. Buffy is eight and to this day if I throw a ball for play she does not bring it back. Buffy comes from a very strong working background.
> 
> How similar are these traits?
> Also, as nolefan said, your dog is young.


This is identical to Truman. He comes from a very strong hunting background with both parents being working dogs. He could run laps around the yard all day and is VERY independent. Does the independent thing have to do with the working background?? He is not a dog that needs anyone. He is the love of my life but I sure do wish he liked to cuddle more lol!


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## kelseypr95 (Jul 5, 2016)

Rambo's mom said:


> This is what our trainer did to teach recall. Rambo was about 10 months old when we started practicing this, and it amazing how fast he comes running when I call "Rambo, come".
> 
> We started this in the house, and then moved to the backyard. I would throw a treat as far as I could, and yell "find it". He would run to find it. After he would finish chewing it, I would run and yell "come", with my hand held in back of me with a couple of treats held out. He would run after me, gobble up the treats and we would repeat. Over and over again. All the time, everyday!! It is still his favorite game. He is 17 months now, and we still play it. The only difference now, is I try to throw the treats so he really has to search for them.
> 
> ...


I will definitely try this! Maybe making it fun will help!!! Thank you!!


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Buffy is still independent. I changed my training ideas just for her. I would like to recommend the following reading: THE CULTURE CLASH; WHEN PIGS FLY; and CLICKER TRAINING FOR OBEDIENCE.

In my quest for success I decided to give up my conventional ideas on training. I train with an open mind. I do a lot of attention work a la WHEN PIGS FLY. It really works. The CULTURE CLASH also introduces one to dog behavior and operant conditioning. I in fact recommended this book to people who got puppies from me. CLICKER TRAINING FOR OBEDIENCE is really geared to the obedience ring but is an excellent resource. Actually all these books use operant conditioning.

Bottom line for Buffy: She does everything that she has been trained to do. But to quote Connie Cleveland "Don't forget, this is who she is". 

I recommend that you focus on one problem at a time when training, move with baby steps, and look for small successes. Your hardest behavior to train will be recall and heeling. And do not bribe the dog with treats, train with treats. Bribing is not successful training.

PS Can I guess that your dog is kind of a darker reddish color?


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

"I don't know if it is a respect issue or what I am doing wrong?? "

I don't believe it has anything to do with respect. I think he just doesn't understand the rules of the game.

"My 7 month old guy absolutely refuses to come when I call him. The only way he will come is if I have something super tasty for him and wave it around in the air and even then it could take a while."

This is just luring. And what you are using to lure isn't high enough value to the dog.

"We have practiced on a tether where I call him and if he does not come right away I pull him to me and reward him at the end."

When training the dog if you have to pull him to you he is not learning. When training it is good to use the long line as we don't want the dog to be able to not come but if during your training you have to continuely pull the dog, the dog is not making the connection and choosing to come to you of their own free will.

One rule when working on a cue is if the dog can do it 8 or 9 times out of 10 on consistent days in different places the dog knows the cue. When training we break it down to first can the dog do it inside the home at very short distances like 3 feet away. If so you move to longer distances. Making sure the dog can do it consistently 8 or 9 times out of 10 before moving the training to outside in a quiet place and again start with the short distances before moving up to longer distances etc. Eventually moving on to doing it with higher and higher distractions. In the home you can most likely use treats and kibble. Once you take it outside you are competing with all those smells, noises, animals, people etc and you need to use a reward/reinforcement that is high enough value to the dog (not you) that he will choose to work.

Until the dog is consistent in these situations, places etc you do not use your cue in real life situations.

By rushing the training, we as owners are not setting our dogs up for success. They need 500 to 1,000 successful repetitions for this training. (maybe not at 3 ft in the house but as the training gets harder for many of those stages.) Every time they choose not to come when called sets back your training something like 10 to 1. 

When using a lure to jump start any training the lure shouldn't be used more than a few times to set the game. After that the reinforcement/treat/toy etc is not shown or given until the dog chooses to follow the cue.

Sometimes when training the word we use ends up meaning something different to the dog than what we intended. If you are using come for your dog come means if you have food waving around or if there is nothing better to do. That would mean the word come has become a poisoned cue. This applies to any word you have been using. Start over with your beginning steps, at short distances and change your word.

After the dog can come when called reliably we still need to actually set up some training/games/fun through out their lives.

This is one cue that can truly save our dogs lives.


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## kelseypr95 (Jul 5, 2016)

gdgli said:


> Buffy is still independent. I changed my training ideas just for her. I would like to recommend the following reading: THE CULTURE CLASH; WHEN PIGS FLY; and CLICKER TRAINING FOR OBEDIENCE.
> 
> In my quest for success I decided to give up my conventional ideas on training. I train with an open mind. I do a lot of attention work a la WHEN PIGS FLY. It really works. The CULTURE CLASH also introduces one to dog behavior and operant conditioning. I in fact recommended this book to people who got puppies from me. CLICKER TRAINING FOR OBEDIENCE is really geared to the obedience ring but is an excellent resource. Actually all these books use operant conditioning.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much! I will definitely look in to those! I will take any help I can get with him. Our breeder told us when we picked him up that he was the “boldest” puppy in the litter and she picked him for us because she thought we could handle him because of my experience with dogs! (dog groomer) He is quite the tough guy and is always testing his limits. Although he is an eager to please dog, it has been hard to get him to respect us and it has taken a lot of hard work to get even where we are today! And yes, he is actually extremely dark and red. He is a field golden!  
Also.. what you said about the bribing... That is EXACTLY what is happening to get him to come inside. Call him a few times, doesn’t listen, come back in to grab the bag of treats and wave it around until he decides he wants to come in. I probably did this to myself, I know!


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

Rambo's mom had an excellent game. Recall training should be fun. Go back and play puppy in the middle and have you and a few others call the dog to you and reinforce plus have a party. Hide and seek go hide and call him to you when he finds you have a party with lots of reinforcement. Restrained recalls. Have someone kneeling down hold him around the chest and you run away calling him to you when he gets to you have a party. By restraining him, it builds excitement to get to you.


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## kelseypr95 (Jul 5, 2016)

solinvictus said:


> "I don't know if it is a respect issue or what I am doing wrong?? "
> 
> I don't believe it has anything to do with respect. I think he just doesn't understand the rules of the game.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for all of that information! It is very helpful! I am sure that we are going to have to start completely over because the word “come” doesn’t really mean anything to him at this point I think. I didn’t realize we were doing the tether thing wrong! Do you have any recommendations on how to get him to bring the ball back to me?


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

kelseypr95 said:


> Thank you so much! I will definitely look in to those! I will take any help I can get with him. Our breeder told us when we picked him up that he was the “boldest” puppy in the litter and she picked him for us because she thought we could handle him because of my experience with dogs! (dog groomer) He is quite the tough guy and is always testing his limits. Although he is an eager to please dog, it has been hard to get him to respect us and it has taken a lot of hard work to get even where we are today! And yes, he is actually extremely dark and red. He is a field golden!
> Also.. what you said about the bribing... That is EXACTLY what is happening to get him to come inside. Call him a few times, doesn’t listen, come back in to grab the bag of treats and wave it around until he decides he wants to come in. I probably did this to myself, I know!


Funny that you should describe him as bold. I chose the boldest puppy from Buffy's litter and offered him to someone that I felt had good dog sense. I did use the word bold to describe him. That dog is Bayside Go Ahead And Eat The Pudding (Proof) who has had a very respectable Derby career. Point is, you can succeed.

PS You need to learn to channel his energy and desires into work.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

Lots of good suggestions here already. You might also look at Leslie Nelson's _Really Reliable Recall_. It's been around for quite awhile and is available in print and as a video.


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## kelseypr95 (Jul 5, 2016)

gdgli said:


> Funny that you should describe him as bold. I chose the boldest puppy from Buffy's litter and offered him to someone that I felt had good dog sense. I did use the word bold to describe him. That dog is Bayside Go Ahead And Eat The Pudding (Proof) who has had a very respectable Derby career. Point is, you can succeed.
> 
> PS You need to learn to channel his energy and desires into work.


Bold is the word our breeder used and it fits him well! I looked up Proof on K9Data and boy is he handsome. Coloring is just like my boy's. Also looked at Buffy and she is beautiful as well! We plan to hopefully do some hunt trials in the future with him. We started on training when one day he came up limping and sadly it was OCD in his shoulder that required surgery. So all training has been pretty much on hold while he has been healing but trust me, we will get right back to working as soon as he is 100% again! Thanks for all the help!


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