# My babies legs are going crooked!!!!!



## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

I'm so sorry to hear your pup is having issues.

I think you are going to have to work with your Vet on this. I don't believe there is anything you, yourself, can do to correct it.

Best wishes to you and your pup!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

YIKES!!!! Increasing the calcium is the _worst _thing you could do! Instead, _decrease it, _as well as the protein. I'd have her seen by an ortho specialist at this point, if possible. She should not be having gait issues...


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> YIKES!!!! Increasing the calcium is the _worst _thing you could do! Instead, _decrease it, _as well as the protein. I'd have her seen by an ortho specialist at this point, if possible. She should not be having gait issues...


My first reaction, see an orthopedic specialist, and soon.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I have to agree-I can't imagine even giving a baby Golden calcium supplements, let alone increasing the amount! 

What are you feeding her?

Some things are normal, such as going down on pastern when teething, and even, depending on the background, going east-westy in front. Pano is also a possibility, as are other growth and development issues.

If it is really bad-and if it is affecting her walk and is very noticeable, it sure sounds bad-I agree, you should have her looked at by a vet who specializes in orthopedics.

What does your breeder say about the issue?

Can you post a picture?


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I agree with the others. Take her off the calcium suppliments and have your vet give you a referral to a orthopedic vet. Hopefully it is going to be ok.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Holy smokes, it's hard to believe a vet wanted to increase her calcium. What have you been feeding her? May we see pictures? By crooked do you mean the bone itself or the ligaments? Are her toes pointing in or out or do her paws looks like big slippers& she walks on her ankles? We need more info! 

There's a disease called HOD that bigger dogs get that reminds me of what you're saying here. Not sure if goldens get it, but Tahnee and PG will probably know that info. 

This is what I would do. 

Make sure the puppy isnt always on slippery floors. 

Give a good vitamin C (esther C) supplement.

Find a very balanced standard large breed puppy food like Eukanuba Large Breed puppy or Innova Large Breed Puppy, or even an adult food with 21-25 percent protien if you see no improvement. Many problems are caused by "overnutrition" or out of whack calicum/ phosphorus.

Feed pup in raised dishes.

I have no personal experience with this at all, but if your pup is down on her pasterns, old timers have a remedy they swear by- Maloxx- I have no idea why though.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Here is some information on HOD. I hope all the links work, as I just found these in my folder and I have had them for awhile

http://www.gdca.org/health/Great Dane 702.pdf

http://www.netpets.org/~sunny/dane_health.html#HOD

http://www.artreality.com/portfolio/wdwork/vet/growingpai
ns.htm

http://www.newmanveterinary.com/lameness.htm

http://amstaff.net/HD1.html

http://www.golden-retriever.com/food.html

http://www.doglogic.com/lgpupdiet.htm

http://www.newmanveterinary.com/large.html#Large Breed Puppies:

I believe Maalox is used if lowering the amount of protein in the food (usually to around 21%) does not provide rapid relief from downed pasterns. I am not familiar with Maalox but I did read somewhere that it contains calcium?

Without pictures, it is so hard to tell anything-is she down on her pasterns? Going east-west? A combination? Is it worse than what one might normally see in a teething puppy?

I still think a visit to an orthopedic vet might be in order.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> YIKES!!!! Increasing the calcium is the _worst _thing you could do! Instead, _decrease it, _as well as the protein. I'd have her seen by an ortho specialist at this point, if possible. She should not be having gait issues...


I've heard this over and over, and I can't figure it out. Giant breed owners have known for years that these bone curvature problems can be caused by too much protein and calcium. I can't for the life of me understand why vets are still _increasing_ those values when there's plenty of literature out there that shows that _decreasing_ can eliminate the problems entirely in many cases.


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

Pointgold said:


> YIKES!!!! Increasing the calcium is the _worst _thing you could do! Instead, _decrease it, _as well as the protein. I'd have her seen by an ortho specialist at this point, if possible. She should not be having gait issues...


That's what I was thinking, it thought that was part the thinking behind the LBP formulas...less calcium.


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## Blondie (Oct 10, 2009)

Maalox is magnesium hydroxide, aluminum hydroxide and simethicone.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I am curious if there's any scientific reason Maalox might help with down pasterns/ HOD? It is a persistent belief of horse/ dog people here in Maine.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Maalox contains calcium carbonate. So those using it for ortho issues are using it as a calcium supplement.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Umm, my Rowdy was down at the pasterns as a pup and was put on calcium supplementation for a while - it did work and he was still running agility at 11 years old. 

I think that perhaps it needs to be considered on a case by case basis.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

The problem is that some bone issues in a growing dog can be caused by too little calcium and some can be caused by too much. HOD is almost certainly caused by too much. When a dog has downed pasterns but not HOD, it might make sense to add protein and/or calcium. That's why an orthopedic specialist is so important.

So if the OP's dog has curved bones, calcium supplements could be a real problem. If it's downed pasterns, they might help, as they did for Rowdy.

Without pictures or a clearer description, it's hard to tell what's going on.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

Sunrise said:


> Umm, my Rowdy was down at the pasterns as a pup and was put on calcium supplementation for a while - it did work and he was still running agility at 11 years old.
> 
> I think that perhaps it needs to be considered on a case by case basis.


Not to sound disrespectful, but how do you KNOW the calcium is what worked? Most pups with downed pasterns grow out of it naturally, so conceivably it was coincidental that he got better when you started the calcium.

I'm also curious who put him on the supplements? Your regular vet or an ortho specialist?


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Nearly all puppies will go "down at the pasterns" when they are cutting teeth. They will come back up when the teeth are in. There is no way that I would supplement with calcium unless there were some issue specifically diagnosed by an orthopaedic specialist.


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## Love Big Max (Feb 7, 2010)

I was wondering..
We have rescued/adopted a golden, "Max," form a horrible place that was shut down in and he came with little to no information. My friend took his sister, and I took him. Both "pups," about 4 months old we think: they just finished teething, walk a little funny. They walk almost like they have a hip out of joint. The vet said he was "fine," but the trainer eeps commenting on is funny walk. When he runs, he looks fine, but when he walks, he almost walks sideways. His sister does the same thing. they ay the litter had Parvo, but neither Max nor Lucy got it...I don't know what to think. i think he's a pretty dog, then again, I've always had Lhasa Apsos.hahahaha! Does anybody have any idea what the heck I should do?


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

Love Big Max said:


> I was wondering..
> We have rescued/adopted a golden, "Max," form a horrible place that was shut down in and he came with little to no information. My friend took his sister, and I took him. Both "pups," about 4 months old we think: they just finished teething, walk a little funny. They walk almost like they have a hip out of joint. The vet said he was "fine," but the trainer eeps commenting on is funny walk. When he runs, he looks fine, but when he walks, he almost walks sideways. His sister does the same thing. they ay the litter had Parvo, but neither Max nor Lucy got it...I don't know what to think. i think he's a pretty dog, then again, I've always had Lhasa Apsos.hahahaha! Does anybody have any idea what the heck I should do?


Get them x-rayed. It doesn't cost that much and will give you a lot of peace of mind. Hip dysplasia can show up that early if it's bad. Finding out early will give you a lot more options for treatment. And if you find out the hips are OK, that's even better!

Also, they are probably more like 6 months if they just finished teething.


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## Blondie (Oct 10, 2009)

Pointgold said:


> Maalox contains calcium carbonate. So those using it for ortho issues are using it as a calcium supplement.


 Not sure what brand name of Maalox you are referring to? At work we use a generic brand, which does not contain calcium.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Blondie said:


> Not sure what brand name of Maalox you are referring to? At work we use a generic brand, which does not contain calcium.


Maalox Quick Dissolve antacid is what people are using.

http://www.maalox.ca/qd_rs.htm


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## jmc (Sep 16, 2009)

So sorry to hear about your this. Poor baby. I have had great danes and growth problems are often associated with too much calories (usually in the form of high protein and calcium). There is a lot of info here www.greatdanelady.com
The info is related to GD but much of it can be applied to large dogs in general. There are also pics of dogs with 'crooked' legs and info on how to hopefully fix the problem. Your pup is still young so I am sure the problem is fixable (if it is related to the wrong diet).
good luck and keep us updated.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

IowaGold said:


> Not to sound disrespectful, but how do you KNOW the calcium is what worked? Most pups with downed pasterns grow out of it naturally, so conceivably it was coincidental that he got better when you started the calcium.
> 
> I'm also curious who put him on the supplements? Your regular vet or an ortho specialist?


Since I do not know you or your credentials, no disrepsect is taken. My vet took x-rays and blood work and determined that Rowdy needed calcium. He was crated most of his young life (4 months at the time) with inferior food being fed, so in his case calcium was needed - as well as the ability to run free and to eat quality food. He was a pet store pup and I don't need to hear any comments about that, since we worked long and hard to get him healthy.

The main point of my reply was that without knowing the OP's exact problem or what may have led up to the problem, it is up to her/his vet and ortho person to determine what if any corrective action should be taken, after proper evaluation and testing has taken place.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

Sunrise said:


> Since I do not know you or your credentials, no disrepsect is taken. My vet took x-rays and blood work and determined that Rowdy needed calcium. He was crated most of his young life (4 months at the time) with inferior food being fed, so in his case calcium was needed - as well as the ability to run free and to eat quality food. He was a pet store pup and I don't need to hear any comments about that, since we worked long and hard to get him healthy.
> 
> The main point of my reply was that without knowing the OP's exact problem or what may have led up to the problem, it is up to her/his vet and ortho person to determine what if any corrective action should be taken, after proper evaluation and testing has taken place.


Sounds like Rowdy was lucky you came along! I'm sure the good food, care, and exercise he received after you adopted him helped every bit as much as the calcium you gave him. Obviously I haven't seen his x-rays or blood tests, so any speculation on my part is just that-speculation. But you also seem to agree that the calcium wasn't the ONLY thing that you did for Rowdy, so to imply that it was solely responsible for his cure is also speculation (I'm going by your first reply, in this reply you do say you changed his food and let him exercise).

You are right, you don't know me. I'm sorry that I haven't introduced myself. I am a veterinarian, but more importantly in this case, I am speaking as the owner of a dog who was permanently crippled by a veterinarian who recommended inappropriate treatments for my pup's issue and who waited 6 or 8 weeks before telling me that she didn't know what was wrong with my pup and referred me to an ortho doc (I was a pre-vet student at this time, so blindly trusted the vet). 

Granted my pup was not down in the pasterns (well, he later did go down in his remaining good leg, but it fixed itself), but the point is that veterinarians do not always recommend the appropriate treatment, simply because we can not know EVERYTHING about everything! In my dog's case, the vet recommended splinting and calcium. Both of which I found out were the exact wrong things when I met the ortho doc. I hope the vet learned something valuable from the handling of my pup's case.

Being a veterinarian now myself, I understand how hard it is to NOT recommend doing *something*. It's hard to tell the client that the thing they are so concerned about (and just spent money to have examined) is nothing to worry about. People don't want to hear that (even when it's the best course) and brought their pet to you so that you can do something to fix it. 

Another thing people don't realize is that sometimes dogs get better or worse in spite of, not BECAUSE of what we do. This holds true in the case of dropped pasterns, training, feeding, everything we do with our dogs! Oh if only we could know what might have been. What if I had fed X instead of Y, or gave this supplement, or whatever. We have do what we feel is right at the time.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

Sunrise said:


> He was a pet store pup and I don't need to hear any comments about that, since we worked long and hard to get him healthy.


I forgot to add that my first pup (the one I spoke about above) was a puppy mill pup, so you won't get any bad comments from me. Hey, we live, we learn.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

IowaGold, I have a Topbrass puppy too. Great athletes, yes? Who are the parents of your Ruby and Piper?


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

Ljilly28 said:


> IowaGold, I have a Topbrass puppy too. Great athletes, yes? Who are the parents of your Ruby and Piper?


Ruby is absolutely fantastic. I think Piper will be too, but only time will tell with her. In some ways I wish Ruby hadn't been my first competition dog, I think she would have been so much farther a long if I had know what I was doing. She has the attitude that she could have been a MH, a MACH, or an OTCH (maybe not all three at once, but any of the above with a half-way decent trainer). But because of her never ending drive and attitude, she has made training fun for both of us and really has been a fantastic first "real" dog (good for me, not so much for her!). 

Piper is very different. She has tons of natural self control (which Ruby *should* have been taught!), but I really think she'll be a fantastic competition dog someday. Probably in many ways easier to deal with than her aunt.

Ruby is Kuventre Daddy Let Me Drive MH***(AJ) X Topbrass Point Blank Range MH (Fire). And Piper is Topbrass Drake MH**(Drake) X Kuventre You Were Born TaFly MH (Sarah). Drake is a Fire son while Sarah and AJ have the same father. 

Ruby: http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=180113
Piper: http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=356991


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