# Understanding Lingo on this Hunt and Field forum



## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

If anyone uses a phrase or talks about an event or something on this forum that you don't understand. Please don't hesitate to ask. Some people have been running dogs for decades. Some are rather new like me. But don't ever feel like you can't ask what we are referring to. 

And just for fun, here's a link to my YouTube page of field and obedience events. Have fun! https://www.youtube.com/user/GraylingConst/videos


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Good post, understanding vocabulary is important.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Ah yes, where SOB has an entirely different meaning


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Great post, great idea! 
For true beginners, even fundamental words like "mark" and "blind" are novel and their definitions are not particularly intuitive. And then there's "the line," which has two very distinct meanings. 
So Alaska, are you going to start a glossary of terms on the forum?


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

FTGoldens said:


> Great post, great idea!
> For true beginners, even fundamental words like "mark" and "blind" are novel and their definitions are not particularly intuitive. And then there's "the line," which has two very distinct meanings.
> So Alaska, are you going to start a glossary of terms on the forum?


Ha! GRCA already has one online: https://www.grca.org/events/field-events-field-training/glossary-of-field-terms/


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Wow Alaska, that's a good list ... thanks for the referral!

There are a few fairly common words/phrases missing, for example:

> Auto-cast:
> Blink (a bird):
> Contrary mark:
> Inverted double:
> Lead-out bird:
> Poison mark:
> Wipe-out bird:

Who is familiar enough with these terms to give a definition?

I'll see about getting them added to the GRCA list after we get a good definition worked out.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

what is a lead out bird?


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> Ah yes, where SOB has an entirely different meaning


SOB is what you do when not called back to the next series.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

SOB, I just learned this last year. Step On Bird. Dog got lucky and found the bird and tripped over it, which is the only reason why the dog found the bird. Judges write it on their score sheet SOB. It's not a good thing.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Stumble on bird 

Yeah, never heard of "lead-out bird"??


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I've heard it to mean stumble on bird...

oops, edit to add, I wrote this before I read Anney's post. 



Alaska7133 said:


> SOB, I just learned this last year. Step On Bird. Dog got lucky and found the bird and tripped over it, which is the only reason why the dog found the bird. Judges write it on their score sheet SOB. It's not a good thing.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm thinking that's what you have to do before you cook a pheasant that was peppered with shot at close range? Get the lead out?




MillionsofPeaches said:


> what is a lead out bird?


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

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hotel4dogs said:


> I'm thinking that's what you have to do before you cook a pheasant that was peppered with shot at close range? Get the lead out?


Great guess! It's also a term that I use when my training buddies are not moving quickly enough.

"Lead Out Bird" - it's a mark that is part of a triple or quad thrown by a stand out gunner which is beyond a short bird thrown by a retired gunner, i.e., in a highly malicious way it leads the dog out beyond the short bird.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

okay so when we are practicing on middle or short retired we might leave the long gun out that is part of a hip pocket to work on keeping the dog from running long. So that gun is shooting the lead out bird? I've never heard that term before, thanks!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Huh OK makes sense! An obvious necessity for making the check down bird a check down bird, but I've never heard that attractive gun given a specific name. Learn something new every day


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

MillionsofPeaches said:


> okay so when we are practicing on middle or short retired we might leave the long gun out that is part of a hip pocket to work on keeping the dog from running long. So that gun is shooting the lead out bird? I've never heard that term before, thanks!


You've got it!
It's not a particularly common phrase, but when you hear it you'll know what it means.

[BTW, you probably already do this on such training set ups, but to make the set up more difficult you can have that long gun go ahead and retire after pup picks up that short (or middle) retired mark.]


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Is everyone clear on the difference between a "poison bird" and a "poison mark"?
(Admittedly, I didn't know the difference until quite recently.)


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

FT

I am waiting...


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

I think you don't pick up a poison bird but a poison mark you pick up????

So a poison bird blind would have a poison bird that the dog wouldn't pick up after it finished the blind. The poison mark is one that is watched then pull off and run a blind with it on the ground and then come back and go retrieve the poison mark now. ???


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

millionsofpeaches said:


> i think you don't pick up a poison bird but a poison mark you pick up????
> 
> So a poison bird blind would have a poison bird that the dog wouldn't pick up after it finished the blind. The poison mark is one that is watched then pull off and run a blind with it on the ground and then come back and go retrieve the poison mark now. ???


_winner winner chicken dinner!_


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

FT,
How much are poison birds and poison marks used in field trials?


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

Very educational thanks everyone!

I think a wipe out bird is a very exciting "dink bird" thrown across the dog's face as the go bird to somewhat "wipe out" the memory of the previous birds

I didn't know what a contrary mark is so looked it up, appears to be some different meanings but from what I could gather, is a more advanced concept where the bird placement is such that a straight line might contradict some training such as staying in the water and off land, so the dog has to use good marking and not be like a "training robot" .

I couldn't find anything about indented doubles. I have so many books but no time to read them.

P.S. I know what DAH means .. hee hee


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

boomers_dawn said:


> Very educational thanks everyone!
> I didn't know what a contrary mark is so looked it up, appears to be some different meanings but from what I could gather, is a more advanced concept where the bird placement is such that a straight line might contradict some training such as staying in the water and off land, so the dog has to use good marking and not be like a "training robot" .


Contrary marks are contrary to good training.
What do contrary marks prove in a test or trial?
Nothing. A contrary mark puts a bird where an untrained dog wants to go, so if a dog arrives to it with little difficulty, is that because he MARKED it or because he fell for every factor along the way and was funneled straight to the bird? Hard to tell, isn't it? It doesn't separate the trained dogs from the untrained dogs or the good markers from the lucky ones.



> I couldn't find anything about indented doubles. I have so many books but no time to read them.


Not sure if you're joking  Perhaps "out of order double" is the term? Just means longer go bird.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Alaska7133 said:


> FT,
> How much are poison birds and poison marks used in field trials?


You'll see one in either the Open or the Am in about every other field trial around here. 

Some judges abhor them and will never throw one ... I know of one person that tried with great diligence to get the AKC to outlaw them from field trials (AKC wasn't persuaded) ... but then, that may have been because he could NEVER get his dog past a poison bird!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I've seen a poison bird used at one qual. Very limited water so they had to do something to mix it up.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Have seen a poison mark in a MH test here.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> Have seen a poison mark in a MH test here.



Way more common in master to have a poison bird or some sort of wonky out of order mark & blind arrangement.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> Have seen a poison mark in a MH test here.


Technically speaking, no you didn't. Poison birds are not to be picked up by the dog at anytime, hence the name "poison" bird. In a Hunt Test, all of the birds are to be eventually picked up, so they can't be poison birds.

Hunt Tests often use a "control" bird that is out there as a test of control. For example a short in your face flyer that is not to be picked up until after first running and completing the blind retrieves.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Swampcollie said:


> Technically speaking, no you didn't. Poison birds are not to be picked up by the dog at anytime, hence the name "poison" bird. In a Hunt Test, all of the birds are to be eventually picked up, so they can't be poison birds.
> 
> Hunt Tests often use a "control" bird that is out there as a test of control. For example a short in your face flyer that is not to be picked up until after first running and completing the blind retrieves.


Yes, they are called diversion birds.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

"Diversion bird" is typically any bird that is not a go bird -- I've heard people call poison birds, memory birds and bulldogs "diversion birds" -- but traditionally it is meant as a bird thrown on the WAY BACK from another retrieve. A bird the dog is expected to pick up but has not seen thrown from the line, thus it is not a mark and you get a free handle. I suppose a diversion bird could be a poison bird as well if the judges require you pick up a blind first before retrieving the diversion.


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