# Sedation and Clearance Xrays



## Kohanagold (Nov 5, 2008)

This is something I've been wondering about for awhile and was wondering if anyone here had any insight to it. I know some people get very excited when a vet does OFA xrays without sedation. To me though, its not about the cost, although an unsedated xray is obviously cheaper. I wonder about the quality of the xray when they dont sedate. How relaxed could a dog really get in that position without the help of a little relaxant? I dont want to spend that kind of money on an xray, have her unsedated through the process, and have her fail because the xray sucks. But at the same time, I want what's best for my dog too. I dont believe in sedating just for anything, but I'm not talking about anestetic either... just a sedative under a vet's watchful eye. I'm curious about the pros and cons of both. Of course Paige is only 19 mths old so I have some time to sort it all out. With Sydney, I did OVC, and with them its either a pass or fail. She was sedated but they wouldn't have gotten an xray from her without her moving.... she was all over the place, wanting love and attention the whole time. Paige is a bit more reserved than Sydney (I think) so with her it could go either way. Thanks, BJ


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## Sadiesdream (Jul 11, 2008)

I know most might not agree with me, but I'm 100% against sedation unless its an life or death situation for my goldens. I've had so many friends lose pets while being sedated. It just flat our scares the bejesus out of me. Recently a close friend of mine took his golden to the vet for a first time teeth cleaning, she never came out of it, when he called me and told me that, I was speechless. Honestly to answer your question it woulddepend on trust for the vet, if my furkid could actually stay still, and what it was being done for.


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## Auenk9 (Oct 23, 2008)

I had my boy done without sedation. Its all about the positioning. You have to find a vet that knows how to position the dog. whether sedated or not. There are some good websites that talk about this. http://leerburg.com/hipart.htm This is one.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

OK I will be the devils advocate. If the dog is tense in any way you can get a false read for OFA. Yes it is about positioning, but if the dog tightens the thigh, your hip can look better than it is. 

My Teddi has HD. In the past year she has had 6 sets of x-rays, most with sedation. She has been carefully monitored and not released until she was awake and fine to go home. I know there are always risks with sedation. In my opinion for what it is worth, if you are thinking about breeding you want the best possible picture so you know up front if your dog should be bred. OFA is not rocket science, and it is not a guarantee, but the less HD dogs out there the better the golden retriever breed would be.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

In my experience the films done without sedation don't come out as well as the ones with sedation - especially in heavily muscled dogs...I'd rather sedate for films than have to take two, three, four, etc without sedation...It's a matter of picking your poison I think.
Erica


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

I have never had any of my dogs sedated during x-rays. I do have a good Breeder vet (Ann Greenbank) and always felt I got good rads. I can't say I disagree with any of the ratings I have got back either. I have never felt like the dog can hold together while being under. My fear is to get an x-ray that look loose in the joints. As long as you dog is well behaved while being positioned (which they are as I assit) there is no need for sedation. JMO.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I don't sedate my dogs either. I do use vets who are very experienced and can get the positioning right (and quickly), and have the strength to properly position and hold the dogs. I use either one vet in Minnesota or another one in Madison, both of whom have been doing this for years.

I don't know that every dog can be x-rayed this way, but I have never had an issue with my guys.


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## SunGold (Feb 27, 2007)

All of my dogs have been sedated for their x-rays, but I can't say I've always agreed with what OFA has come back with... but that's a whole different subject!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I've done both, and used to insist on no sedation. I always assisted in the positioning with my old vet. He eventually convinced me that a light sedative would get better results with the dogs that are in very hard muscle, which made it difficult to rotate the hips and hold them. I did get better rads, and good ratings. My new vet did my last two, and the rads were beautiful, both dogs were OFA good, and elbows normal. They were also lightly sedated.
I think it depends on the dog whether good positioning can be done and maintained without sedating.


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## Romeo1 (Apr 19, 2008)

Sadiesdream said:


> I know most might not agree with me, but I'm 100% against sedation unless its an life or death situation for my goldens. I've had so many friends lose pets while being sedated. It just flat our scares the bejesus out of me. Recently a close friend of mine took his golden to the vet for a first time teeth cleaning, she never came out of it, when he called me and told me that, I was speechless. Honestly to answer your question it woulddepend on trust for the vet, if my furkid could actually stay still, and what it was being done for.


OMG. I'm with you. It scares me the bejesus out of me too! Although I've never personally known someone to lose a pet to sedation.  Thanks for the info.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Sadiesdream said:


> I know most might not agree with me, but I'm 100% against sedation unless its an life or death situation for my goldens. I've had so many friends lose pets while being sedated. It just flat our scares the bejesus out of me. Recently a close friend of mine took his golden to the vet for a first time teeth cleaning, she never came out of it, when he called me and told me that, I was speechless. Honestly to answer your question it woulddepend on trust for the vet, if my furkid could actually stay still, and what it was being done for.


Typically, dentistry is done under anesthesia, as opposed to sedation. And is also usually done on older adult dogs. Generally, a pre-anesthetic work up would be done prior to undergoing anesthesia, in order to determine if it is safe. 
It is relatively rare to lose a pet due to anesthesia, and I cannot remember ever knowing of one being lost to sedation, unless there is some underlying cause.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

There's a Vet named Lonnie Davis in OH that the Newf people use. They drive a long way to see him, and people even fly dogs in from all over the country to have him do their x-rays. He's THAT good! . 

The dogs in his films are PERFECTLY positioned. They look just like a drawing in a book. (A lot of the xrays he's taken have been posted on Newf Net)

He uses no anesthesia, or sedation, at all. He whispers in their ear....and they stay put.

I've had them done with anesthesia/sedation and they haven't ever been as perfectly positioned as the one's I've seen from this particular Vet.

You can contact him at Troy Animal Hospital 937-335-8387. He is located in Troy Ohio. Troy is about 20 minutes north of Dayton OH on Interstate 75


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## Kohanagold (Nov 5, 2008)

As much as I'd love to use that vet (by the sounds of it, he's VERY good), its not really a possibility for me. The vet I want to use is down in Bellingham and apparently does "a lot" of OFA Xrays. The receptionist told me that he always tries without first and if they need it, then they will sedate. He's about 1/2 the cost of the vet here that does them (I was looking at $400 + sedation if needed). 

With a sedative, the dog is awake the entire time. If they wanted to put the dog completely under anestetic, I wouldn't do it. I guess if he's done a lot of them, he should know if he needs to sedate to get a good film??

Thank you very much Auenk9 for the article. It was very helpful to understand positioning. I just kinda trusted that they knew what they were doing, but apparently that's not always the case. BJ


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

My BIL almost lost their german shorthair under anesthesia. It was a miracle they saved her. It makes me paranoid ever since.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I don't know if this is worth contributing, as far as sedation goes, but here it is if it's useful to anyone.

Daisy had to be sedated for a recent bloat procedure. Heavily sedated. Her eyes were open but there was literally no movement or reaction, not even instinctual reactions.

The er vet did not have a reversal drug to bring her out of it before I brought her home. I brought her home on a stretcher and it tooks hours for her to come out of it on her own. It was not a pretty sight and I don't think most pet owners ever have to experience what we did that afternoon.

Sedation is not the same as anaesthesia but it still should not be taken lightly.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

As stated by others there is a difference between sedation and anesthesia. Like the difference between being asleep and in a coma. 
It depends on the dog AND the vet. The dog needs to be well behaved and willing to lie in a quite un-natural postion in a strange surrounding without mommy or daddy there to hold it's paw. Some vets have the knack and some just don't have the patience. 
And if I remember correctly in New York state it is required that the dog be sedated as no one is allowed in the room when the xray is taken to "hold" the dog. I am sure someone will correct me if I am mistaken on this.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

AmbikaGR said:


> As stated by others there is a difference between sedation and anesthesia. Like the difference between being asleep and in a coma.
> It depends on the dog AND the vet. The dog needs to be well behaved and willing to lie in a quite un-natural postion in a strange surrounding without mommy or daddy there to hold it's paw. Some vets have the knack and some just don't have the patience.
> And if I remember correctly in New York state it is required that the dog be sedated as no one is allowed in the room when the xray is taken to "hold" the dog. I am sure someone will correct me if I am mistaken on this.


And there is a big difference between "light" sedation and "heavy" sedation. More often than not, a dog having hip/elbow rads is young and healthy. It's an entirely different story if dealing with an older, or already debilitated dog.

As far as having mommy or daddy holding a dog's paw D) more often than not it is not a good idea, and especially if the owner is not adept at positioning a dog for radiographs.


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## dannyra (Aug 5, 2008)

Baylee was my wild girl when it came to vet visits. For some blood work ups she had to be sedated. She had the reversal drug the first time, but the other 3 or 4 times she didn't as she got terrible diahrea and it was caused by the reversal drug. According to my vet, dogs usually have more bad reactions to the reversal than they do the sedative.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

SunGold said:


> All of my dogs have been sedated for their x-rays, but I can't say I've always agreed with what OFA has come back with... but that's a whole different subject!


Tango's orthopedic vet says OFA sometimes looks at xrays for 15 seconds. He was at an OFA conference for vets, and someone asked how long they spent on each Xray. That's a pretty brief glance for a dog's whole show/breeding career. The dog we worried a bit about came back with hips excellent prelims and the one we werent worried about had elbow d- there is a feeling to getting those envelopes alot like getting an exam/term paper back in school- nervewracking. They were sedated so that they wouldnt develop any nervousness about the vet's office in case it was uncomfortable


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## HovawartMom (Aug 10, 2006)

My boy was OFA x-rayed without any sedation!.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Dannyra, please tell me about your experiences without the reversal drug. Were you there when your dog was coming out of it? I'd like to know if Daisy's reaction was "normal." Seriously, it just seemed really bad. But I was already compromised at that point myself, maybe I was semi-hysterical and that colored everything I was experiencing with this.

I apologize if this is a hijack. It's about sedation, but not about x-rays.


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## historicprim (Nov 24, 2007)

I agree with PG it depends on the dog. I have only had one dog who was sedated during the hip/elbow xray the rest have been without. I had 2 of my girls done fairly recently, and the cost was $277. each.


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## historicprim (Nov 24, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> Tango's orthopedic vet says OFA sometimes looks at xrays for 15 seconds. He was at an OFA conference for vets, and someone asked how long they spent on each Xray. That's a pretty brief glance for a dog's whole show/breeding career. The dog we worried a bit about came back with hips excellent prelims and the one we werent worried about had elbow d- there is a feeling to getting those envelopes alot like getting an exam/term paper back in school- nervewracking. They were sedated so that they wouldnt develop any nervousness about the vet's office in case it was uncomfortable


Ljilly,

I was just on the phone with OFA last friday inquiring about not receiving 1 of 2 results that were sent in together. This is what I was told.
Since the xrays are seen by 3 different people in different locations, the second dogs xrays are always delayed for several weeks. 
That does not make sense to me, and I felt like saying "OH BULLCRAP"
LOL but of course I wouldn't, and she was nice enough to give me the results over the phone. My girls Orthpedic Vet told me that if OFA is doing their job that both of my girls should get an excellent. Well neither did, but I'm not complaining about good/normals. 
I have heard the same thing that you are stating from several people. It really is a shame!


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## dannyra (Aug 5, 2008)

Jo Ellen said:


> Dannyra, please tell me about your experiences without the reversal drug. Were you there when your dog was coming out of it? I'd like to know if Daisy's reaction was "normal." Seriously, it just seemed really bad. But I was already compromised at that point myself, maybe I was semi-hysterical and that colored everything I was experiencing with this.
> 
> I apologize if this is a hijack. It's about sedation, but not about x-rays.


I don't think she was every heavily sedated so it may have been a little different. For her it took a long time for her to really come out of it. She was pretty much a limp noodle for 2 hours. Not steady enough to walk on her own for another 2 hours. Not herself till the next day. She did pee herself one time. For the most part it was uneventful. She also shook quite a bit as she tended to never fully relax and try to fight the drug.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

If a radiograph of hips or elbows is a good quality one, an experienced orthopedic vet should be easily able to make an assessment in 15-20 seconds. And that rad is being looked at by 3 specialists. I don't think it unreasonable.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

I used to travel 3 hrs (one way) to Hillsburg Ont to see Dr Carol Graham! She is amazing...pulls perfectly positioned rads without sedation ....I now use my local vet who also does good positioning but does lightly sedate the dogs...Dr Graham can tell pretty quickly whether your dog will clear or not and is bang on with her ratings! Well worth the drive


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