# New to goldens -- questions/breeders



## dresden (Jan 21, 2008)

Hi -- I am new to Goldens -- I have been a Newfoundland owner for 10 years but lost our Samuel in Sept. and now am thinking of a change. 

I really like the English Creams and don't know anything about them. Are they different from a reg. golden? Besides the color?

I am searching the net for a breeder and have found 2. I don't know if they are good or not. Has anyone gotten a puppy OR knows anything about -- Silvermine Goldens or Wisteria Goldens? Both have English Creams....

We are looking for a male and do not want to show or breed. We just want a healthy loving friend that will be with us for years to come.

Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks.


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## tsdairy (Dec 9, 2007)

Look on www.puppyfind.com but research before you buy. I have 2 english creams. Well 1 girl her enow and the boy i pick up Friday. Faith is a light creamy with white feathering. Apollo is white as the snow. They are registered as 'light' golden retrievers and are similar to them, little more stocky I think is all. I don't know much about silvermine. I actually talked to the lady at Wisteria. She is very nice. I didn't buy from her cause it was 3,000 for a full reg plus ship. But she was very knowledgeable. I got my male for 1700 full reg. 1200 limited. Here I pm their website to you, but have no idea if they have any left or not.... There is a woman in Eudora KS that has them, DO NOT get them there. Her name is andrea. I got my girl from her. STEER CLEAR. My pup was VERY sick for 2 -2.5 wks and cost su a lot to get her well. I was very disappointed.

She's weighed in at 7lbs at 6 weeks; Apollo is 7 weeks and weighs 10lb 3oz! SO Apollo is a big boy. Faith would probly have weighed more BUT she was so sick not eating, diarrhea, VERY BAD worms. The list goes on. 

Faith learned to sit in just a day. She's very smart. I have everything from white goldens to light, to traditional, to dark red from short smooth coat to long wavy show coat. lol.. I LOVE them all. I had to have my englishs they are so beautiful and if they pass all their clearances after 2 I will breed them once or twice. I have several of my friends begging me for them. I am the only one in our very rural area who has one, well 2 almost. And our vet has never seen one in person till mine~! HAHAHA.

tHEY ARE BEAUTIFUL DOGS!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

There is no such thing as an "English Cream". Period. There are Golden Retrievers, which come in various shades of gold. 
http://www.grca.org/pec/whitegolden.html
Breeders selling Golden Retrievers and marketing them as "British Cremes", "English Creams", "Rare British Whites" etc, for inflated prices, are taking advantage of people. Genetic health clearances (for at LEAST 3 generations on both sides), temperament, and soundness, must come first, and color should be the last consideration. Selling dogs and pricing them by color is the sign of a "breeder" whose "knowledge" lies in how to make money off unsuspecting buyers.


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## dresden (Jan 21, 2008)

Okay now you are scaring me! I take it that if you prefer a lighter color golden that it doesn't need to be a English Cream....????

I am so nervous about finding a good breeder. Seems like I can find Goldens all over the place in local papers but I THINK most are just inexperienced and I don't know FOR sure what to look for with the clearances.

One said the mom had a 60% hip clearance and the dad 100%. WHAT WOULD THAT MEAN FOR THE PUPS???? Good or bad?

I know of so many people that just go and get whatever and the dogs seem to do well for years and years and then there are others that have their dogs in for surgeries and problems continually.

OK -- then my question is -- what is a fair price? I am finding $2500 for the "English Creams" 

AND does any one know of a breeder they fully trust and that has a proven pup from them?

Anything from anyone -- I thank you!


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## tsdairy (Dec 9, 2007)

I agree on the price inflation! I don't call my english' english creams when i talk to friends about them I either say cream color for faith or whitish for apollo. It is another way for people to make money off color, that's really what it is. Most are imported (parents of pups, they are NOT RARE). The people I bought apollo from are VERY good close friends of a friend of mine. She is the one who told me about them and they don't charge teh huge price I don't think anyway! They have beautiful set up and all that. I'm very pleased with them. But again, not sure if they got any left. They only have 3 adults of them. 2 girls 1 boy. And they are all 3 imported. All that jazz. Morning Valley dogs is where they are from and glen shallag (spelling). 

I think you really just go with what you want for looks as long as their health is up to par. I personally for a pet would't pay more than 1200-1500. As long as the parents had clearances, good pedigrees, etc. But I am just learning the ropes and am no expert by any means.... Ask me in a coupel years! LOL... 

I think a better term for the cream/whitish/light goldens would be english 'type' or very light I don't know. It's relative term describing color. They are STILL GOLDEN RETRIEVERS. And say that on the papers. English Cream is not a seperate breed at all. one thing I have found AKC will penalize for the 'white' very light coloring. To show for conformation you'd need to do international to avoid penalizing. I think that's riht if I remember correctly... 

I'm sure someone else here has more concrete advice. I probably just confused you more or got it mixed up! GOOD LUCK


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Hi and welcome to the forum. There is not a distinct difference, if any, other than clolor. There is a "type" that some refer to as English and although many tend to be lighter in color not all are. There is an excellent Yahoo Group dedicated to the English type and dogs with dogs with English ancestery that you may find very educational and friendly. Folks there will tell you that there should not be a disparity in prices for pups and answer any question you may have. The group can be located at http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EnglishGoldens/

Good luck in your search for a pup.


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## tsdairy (Dec 9, 2007)

That's a great link site AmbikaGR. I am going to look it up!

Oh hey, I was goign to tell you! My lilly had an oops litter with my shadow. He is light w/ some blonde feathering and Lilly is traditional golden. I had 3 in the liter that were WHITE as the snow!  And I sold them with the rest as normal golden.


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## tsdairy (Dec 9, 2007)

and neither of them are your 'english cream' english type goldens... .


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

Hi Dresden.....I'm sorry for the loss of your sweet Samuel. Welcome to the site.

I'm a Newfie owner, as well as a Golden owner.

There are quite a few threads here about the "English Cream Goldens". It's an advertising ploy...they're just very light, square, "fluffy" Goldens. Whether they're actually retrievers or not.....I don't know.

Think of it like this......it's a color, and type. Kind of like a Landseer versus a Black Newf. They're still Newfs. The difference is, Landseer is a recognized AKC/NCA Newfoundland color. "Cream" is not, in the AKC Golden Retriever world.

Goldens are supposed to be a shade of Gold. Light, Medium or Dark....but still Gold. And Retriever is part of the name too. They're bird dogs....hunting dogs. Cream dogs don't blend in too well with their field/woods surroundings. 

The difference is also along the lines of body type and structure. Along with that body type (square, heavy bone, heavy coat) comes a difference in "attitude" as well.

You might want to consider what kind of lifestyle you live. Are you an outdoorsy person or more of a homebody? Do you want a fairly active dog who loves water, or not?

Just like with Newfs, different lines have different temperaments, health issues, longevity statistics, and levels of energy. And......Goldens as a whole, no matter what lines they're from, remain much more active much longer than Newfs do. They're quite lively for many many years. Oh...and they chew (or most of them do)...and chew....and chew. I haven't found that any of our Newfs were/are as determined to demolish my house as the Goldens were. :lol:

We went the opposite direction you're going. We've had Goldens and Labs for many years, and as we aged, felt that we wanted a breed that was a bit "slower" and "calmer". Yes....the first two years with our Landseer was like owning a Golden all over again, and our Black male puppy is a handful too.....but we know they DO slow down well before the age of 8. LOL

I have an 11 yr old Golden that can STILL race circles around the young Newfs!

Best of luck with your search. Keep us posted!

PS...Did you know that there are "Cream" Newfs too? Actually they're kind of a Coffee with lots of cream added color, but they're not a recognized or "acceptable" color either. They're a very dilute Brown (which is a recognized Newf color). Oh...and there are Grey Newfs too. Which are recognized by the NCA/AKC.


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

It si a good thing yo don;t want to show him they don;t get very far around here as there is no such thing.


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## dresden (Jan 21, 2008)

Thank all of you so much for your input. I really appreciate it! Ardeagold I appreciated your comparasion of Newfs and Goldies. I have heard nothing but good things about Goldies. I believe they are a wonderful breed. However, my husband and discussed it and we are leaning on staying with Newfoundlands. We know so about them and we also know breeders of which we are comfortable with. We had just thought of a change of breed to bring into our home. One should always study a breed before they get one to make sure they will be a long time friend. Thanks again to everyone.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

You're welcome Dresden. I honestly believe that once you've been "Newfed", you'll always want a Newf in your life.

But do remember.....Newfs and Goldens are a great combination! Newfs slow Goldens down a bit (and keep them in their place), and Goldens keep Newfs moving and active, which they often need to stay healthier and keep better muscle tone.

So......get two. That's my best advice. One Golden, one Newf. :lol: Then, you, your husband, and the dogs will be very happy indeed!!

PS...I sent you a PM.


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## goldensmum (Oct 23, 2007)

No such thing as an English Cream". Unfortunately (only my opinion) in the uk the goldens that are being bred over here are getting lighter, and yes some are cream coloured - but they are still "golden retrievers".


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## Conquerergold (Dec 12, 2007)

*English Goldens*

Hello,
To echo others thoughts, there is no such thing as an 'English Cream'. Many Goldens of English decent (including Australian, NZ, Europe) can be of a cream colour, but just as many are not. Here is a link to my boy Spencer, his dam is a UK Import and his Sire NZ http://www.englishgoldens.net/ranchosierraspencer.htm as you can see he has plenty of colour.

The reputable breeders of English pedigree dogs that I associate with do NOT charge more for colour (i.e. $3000). When you get to prices that high, I would RUN not walk away from that breeder. Most, from what I am aware, charge between $800-$1500 (depending on location) which is the same for 'American pedigree' Goldens.

Feel free to check out my website, as all the dogs on there are atleast 1/2 English and we have every colour under the sun. 

I would be happy to help you in your search, feel free to e-mail me at [email protected] 

Cheers
Rob
(who hasn't been on here in ages and is trying to catch up)


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## Bailey & Bentley (Feb 25, 2007)

Welcome to the forum! I think that you will find that having a golden is a wonderful thing. They are a lot of work, and can have their fair share of problems. I would suggest researching the breed the best you can and learn as much as you can from this forum. If you found that a golden is the best fit for you and your family, then you will not regret it. Good luck in your search. I personally love lighter colored goldens.

We will be happy to answer any questions you may have.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Nautilus and Twin Beau D have some polar- bear- faced, triple coat light blonde dogs . There is a good-sized waiting list, but worth it for a healthy pup. It is SO true about the racket behind the label.


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## Nicole&Zack (Feb 27, 2007)

I have looked at both breeders...
Wisteria golden: She is very nice and has some nice pups, but the OFA/Penn hip scores are horrible and she has way to many litters. And only one male that she breeds who is from White dove ranch...not good.

Silvermine kennel: OFA scores are great, puppies are cute but way to much.
I am getting a english cream golden on Feb.18th...cant wait.


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## GoldenGirlGal (Feb 17, 2008)

Nicole&Zack said:


> I have looked at both breeders...
> Wisteria golden: She is very nice and has some nice pups, but the OFA/Penn hip scores are horrible and she has way to many litters. And only one male that she breeds who is from White dove ranch...not good.
> quote]
> 
> ...


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## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

*Response to Wisteria...*

I read your response to one of the other posters and something jumped out at me: 



> 1. Our OFA/PennHip scores are not horrible.  While we have a couple of girls that are not as good as we would like, their parents scores are either good or excellent and with the recommendation of our vet (who faxed the scores of their parents) and by breeding them to Aspen, who has a PennHip score of 100%, we felt this was a good match. One puppy has already been tested and they scored 74%.


I'm confused here - what are his DI numbers (left & right hip)? According to the PennHip website, a dog with a 1.0 DI would be considered to have "very loose" joints. I know that PennHip gives a percentile that tells a person where their dog is with regards to other dogs but I've never heard of a Golden Retriever who's hips were better than 100% of the other PennHipped Golden Retrievers.

Your boy was graded as Fair by the OFA which usually means that the ball does not fit well within the socket of the joint. That indicates that there was some laxity in the joint when the x-ray was taken. If that's true, then a 0.0 PennHip score would be next to impossible.

Your boy also has Grade II elbow dysplasia which is documented on the OFA website. Your bitch Sugar, who you bred to Aspen, has an OFA hip prelim of mildly dysplastic, done when she was 20 months old, also documented on the OFA website. The OFA recommends re-submitting x-rays after 6 months on dogs with Fair or Mild prelims - have you had her redone yet? If not, will you be getting her re-evaluated? 

Shasta is not yet 2 years old (birthdate 04/18/06) but according to one of the pictures on your website, she has already had one litter. Is this true or is the caption on her picture a mistake?

You have done an excellent job of getting your cardiac and CERF clearances on your dogs and that's great but even if Aspen has a 100% hip score, I question why you would use a dog with elbow dysplasia on your bitches.


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## GoldenGirlGal (Feb 17, 2008)

ragtym said:


> I read your response to one of the other posters and something jumped out at me:
> 
> I'm confused here - what are his DI numbers (left & right hip)? According to the PennHip website, a dog with a 1.0 DI would be considered to have "very loose" joints. I know that PennHip gives a percentile that tells a person where their dog is with regards to other dogs but I've never heard of a Golden Retriever who's hips were better than 100% of the other PennHipped Golden Retrievers.


His DI scores are: .36 & .25. I quote the report: "This result means that 1) your animal's hips are tigher than approximately 100% of this groups of animals (alternatively, 0% of the groups has tighter hips than your animal), and 2) your animal's hip laxity is in the tighter half of the laxity profile."



> Your boy was graded as Fair by the OFA which usually means that the ball does not fit well within the socket of the joint. That indicates that there was some laxity in the joint when the x-ray was taken. If that's true, then a 0.0 PennHip score would be next to impossible.


I took both of these reports to three different vets. They told me to disregard OFA, that the PennHip test was a more accurate test. We had one vet say that he had a breeder submit two sets of x-rays from the same dog and sent them to OFA under two different names. One came back Excellent and the other Fair. So, all I can do is go by what our vets recommends and he recommend PennHip.



> Your boy also has Grade II elbow dysplasia which is documented on the OFA website.


My vet looked at the x-rays before he submitted them, when he got back the OFA scores -- he said there is no way. With the hips scores scoring they way they did, we felt that there must have been some kind of mix up. (Hips and Elbows were done at the same time) Like you stated, how can PennHip score so high and OFA so low? From our understanding OFA has a high incident of inaccurate scoring.



> Your bitch Sugar, who you bred to Aspen, has an OFA hip prelim of mildly dysplastic, done when she was 20 months old, also documented on the OFA website. The OFA recommends re-submitting x-rays after 6 months on dogs with Fair or Mild prelims - have you had her redone yet? If not, will you be getting her re-evaluated?


Yes, we had her hips PennHip tested. The came back 20% with no signs of HD. Her DI .46 and .70. The one hip scored higher than we would have liked, but with her parents scores, Aspen's score, and with his parents we felt this was ok. One of her pups have already been tested and scored in the 74%, I do not know the individual DI's now, but at the time knew they were good.



> Shasta is not yet 2 years old (birthdate 04/18/06) but according to one of the pictures on your website, she has already had one litter. Is this true or is the caption on her picture a mistake?


Yes, it is true. We also had her PennHip tested -- scored 80%, DI .39 and .45. Which can be done at an earlier age than OFA and we no longer do OFA. We had no intentions of breeding her last time though. We were out of town and she was not due to come into heat for another month. The lady watching the dogs for us, did not notice she was in heat and she bred while we were gone. 



> You have done an excellent job of getting your cardiac and CERF clearances on your dogs and that's great but even if Aspen has a 100% hip score, I question why you would use a dog with elbow dysplasia on your bitches.


Because all we can do is trust our vets. 1. My vet saw his x-rays and felt very strongly they were read inaccurately. 2. We feel that all we can do is trust what we are told by the "experts." When we talked to different people, we got different responses, so who do you believe? We could just question people until we got the answer we wanted, but how responsible is that? Our vets have personally seen and taken care our of our dogs and so therefore, their recommendations are who we are going to follow. They recommend PennHip over OFA, so we are going to PennHip test our Goldens as we have been told it is a more accurate test. From my research -- just because a dog has HD, does not mean a puppy will. Just as having two parents that do have HD, does not mean a puppy will not have it...there are just too many factors involved. This alone makes it really hard -- IF I breed two dogs together that have Excellent Hips, Eyes, Heart, etc...does not guarantee their puppies will not have some genetic defect..how sad is that.

We do the testing, because it is the responsible thing to do, but at the same time, IF testing works -- how come HD has not decreased, but only increased. :-( 

Do we realize we health test our dogs MORE than we test ourselves before we have babies?


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## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

Sorry, meant to get back to this sooner but I got busy...



> His DI scores are: .36 & .25. I quote the report: "This result means that 1) your animal's hips are tigher than approximately 100% of this groups of animals (alternatively, 0% of the groups has tighter hips than your animal), and 2) your animal's hip laxity is in the tighter half of the laxity profile."


Ok, I see where that is coming from now but it sounds a bit misleading (on PennHips part, not yours). Mathematically, the best a dog could ever do would be the 99%-ile because the dog would have to beat his own scores to receive a 100% (ie better than 100% or ALL dogs, even himself). 

Again, I'm not saying that you are misleading anyone but PennHip is giving you false information about where your dog ranks on the PennHip scale.



> I took both of these reports to three different vets. They told me to disregard OFA, that the PennHip test was a more accurate test. We had one vet say that he had a breeder submit two sets of x-rays from the same dog and sent them to OFA under two different names. One came back Excellent and the other Fair. So, all I can do is go by what our vets recommends and he recommend PennHip.


The problem with this is that PennHip and OFA show two different aspects of the hips. The OFA rating is based on the conformation of the joint (what we can see in the x-ray) and the presence or absence of arthritic changes. PennHip is based mainly on the laxity of the joint. OFA is better at looking at the complete structural pictures of the hip joints (elbow joints, etc) and PennHip is better at measuring laxity. I don't think either method is "better" than the other but I do think that some value could be gained from using BOTH together as opposed to one or the other.

I won't even go into the ethics of a vet who would ALLOW someone to submit their dogs x-rays under two different names. 



> My vet looked at the x-rays before he submitted them, when he got back the OFA scores -- he said there is no way. With the hips scores scoring they way they did, we felt that there must have been some kind of mix up. (Hips and Elbows were done at the same time) Like you stated, how can PennHip score so high and OFA so low? From our understanding OFA has a high incident of inaccurate scoring.


Fair is still a passing score and the reasoning for that grade is: _ Assigned where minor irregularities in the hip joint exist. The hip joint is wider than a good hip phenotype. This is due to the ball slightly slipping out of the socket causing a minor degree of joint incongruency. There may also be slight inward deviation of the weight-bearing surface of the socket (dorsal acetabular rim) causing the socket to appear slightly shallow_

So your boy showed some irregularities in hip conformation. His PennHip scores may have been high by comparison to other Golden Retrievers but they still showed a degree of laxity (.36 is 36% out of the socket). I can't speak for the OFA but I would guess that this is why they graded your boy a Fair.

You can read more about the grades here: http://offa.org/hipgrade.html

If you felt there was a mix-up, why did you not resubmit them after 6 months? 



> Yes, we had her hips PennHip tested. The came back 20% with no signs of HD. Her DI .46 and .70. The one hip scored higher than we would have liked, but with her parents scores, Aspen's score, and with his parents we felt this was ok. One of her pups have already been tested and scored in the 74%, I do not know the individual DI's now, but at the time knew they were good.


So her OFA prelim was mildly dysplastic and she has one hip that is well over the median DI for Goldens under PennHip (.55 last I saw). Her overall rating was in the bottom 1/5th of the PennHip Golden Retriever database. Aspen has good PennHip DI numbers but he's an OFA Fair. Aspen's parents were an OFA good and an OFA excellent but even you have said that you don't trust OFA's rating system any longer. I have no idea about her parents because that information is nowhere to be found. What about her littermates? Do you have any information on their scores? Those scores would be a better indicator of her genetics than her parents scores because you may know what scores they have but you really don't have an idea of what scores they are producing. I'm sorry but I still don't see why this particular bitch was still bred seeing that not only did OFA prelim her as dysplastic, PennHip gave her a very low overall rating as well. 




> Because all we can do is trust our vets. 1. My vet saw his x-rays and felt very strongly they were read inaccurately.


Again, if you felt that Aspen's ratings were inaccurate, why didn't you resubmit them to OFA? Or submit them to the GDC or OVC? Neither of those organizations is affiliated with the OFA and both would have given you another reading of his x-rays. The OFA website now includes ratings from both of those organizations as well.



> 2. We feel that all we can do is trust what we are told by the "experts."


If you are speaking of your vet when you say "experts", I have to disagree with that designation. While your vet may be well-versed in taking OFA x-rays, that doesn't mean that he necessarily has the knowledge to accurately predict the results. The Dr's at the OFA have examined hundreds of thousands of x-rays and know exactly what they are looking for. I fail to see how your vet(s) can be more expert than they are.



> We do the testing, because it is the responsible thing to do, but at the same time, IF testing works -- how come HD has not decreased, but only increased. :-(


I'm curious as to how you came to that conclusion? According to the OFA website, the number of Excellents in Golden Retrievers went up 205% between 1980 and 2004. The number of dysplastic dogs decreased by 27.3% during the same time period, even with the number of dogs being OFA'd increasing every year. Labrador Retrievers have doubled the number of dogs being OFA'd and their dysplasia percentage has still dropped by 31% during that time period.

I hope you don't think I'm trying to pick on you because that's not my intention (at least, not now  ). You have been very forthcoming with this information which is a refreshing change from some other breeders whose programs have been questioned and I appreciate that. However, as I've stated above, I still have concerns about some things that you have said here.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Dresden, welcome to the forum! I don't have anything to add really on English Creams. Only what others have said - there is no such thing. Just an advertising ploy to get $$$$. 

I would like to add my regrets on your losing your Samuel. I have never had a Newfie because hubby doesn't like the slobber. My main goal is to change his mind and someday own one of those gorgeous animals. I know your Samuel is terribly missed.

As for Goldens, there are many good breeders that very often have light colored Goldens. Check with your local breed club. I'm sure they will have a list of respected breeders in your area. Just make sure the breeder does all the necessary clearances and ask for pedigree information and then you can check the pedigree on K9 Data.

Jazzys Mom


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> Nautilus and Twin Beau D have some polar- bear- faced, triple coat light blonde dogs . There is a good-sized waiting list, but worth it for a healthy pup. It is SO true about the racket behind the label.


Can you tell me what a "triple coat" might be, please?


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Yeah, I'd like to know that too. I missed that one!

My Dakota's mom was a Twin Beau D and she had a normal, Golden coat.

Jazzys Mom


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

ragtym said:


> Sorry, meant to get back to this sooner but I got busy...
> 
> Ok, I see where that is coming from now but it sounds a bit misleading (on PennHips part, not yours). Mathematically, the best a dog could ever do would be the 99%-ile because the dog would have to beat his own scores to receive a 100% (ie better than 100% or ALL dogs, even himself).
> 
> ...


 
I am 100% in agreement with everything that ragtyme has stated. Excellent information.
I will not use PennHip for a variety of reasons, not the least being that they simply do not have enough dogs in their database to really give you an accurate assessment of the breed as a whole. (And concerns about the ethics of Dr. Gail Smith in regards to funding provided for the original PennHip project by the GRCA and promises not kept...) Of course vets who are offering PennHip are pushing it, as they paid for the training and expect it to be a money maker for them. I have very deep respect fo the OFA and what they have done to DECREASE the incidence of HD in many breeds, Goldens imcluded, as well as for their high standards and strong ethics.


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## maiapup (Nov 22, 2007)

I was wondering if there was any news for our member from Virginia on the search? Hint hint?!? LOL


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

maiapup said:


> I was wondering if there was any news for our member from Virginia on the search? Hint hint?!? LOL


And _I_ am still dying to find out what a "triple coat" is. Hint hint?!? LOL


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> And _I_ am still dying to find out what a "triple coat" is. Hint hint?!? LOL


Maybe its a tartan plaid wool


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Swampcollie said:


> Maybe its a tartan plaid wool


And prolly a kilt as opposed to "pants". HAHAHAHA


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> Can you tell me what a "triple coat" might be, please?


I am curious, too. Brady is a Twin Beau D puppy and one of Nancy's lighter litters, but he is registered as Med Gold. His coat is very "flashy" with all his feathers and pantaloons - but what is a triple coat. All the Nautilus dogs I have met have the same coat and color as Brady, too.

My late Great Pyrenees had the double coat. So what is a triple coat?


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

it's possible the poster meant to say double and said triple instead.....


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

cubbysan said:


> I am curious, too. Brady is a Twin Beau D puppy and one of Nancy's lighter litters, but he is registered as Med Gold. His coat is very "flashy" with all his feathers and pantaloons - but what is a triple coat. All the Nautilus dogs I have met have the same coat and color as Brady, too.
> 
> My late Great Pyrenees had the double coat. So what is a triple coat?


 
I just re-read the post and in addition to wondering what a "triple coat" is, I wonder too what a "polar bear face" is? I cannot imagine that either Twin Beau-D or Nautilus identifies their dogs this way!


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## goldparent (Aug 16, 2009)

*Wisteria goldens in Arkansas*

I am adding this on to this thread instead of where I posted it before so that it goes along with people asking about Wisteria goldens will have that information. I would also suggest doing a general search on this forum. Yes, I know the breeder commented here and will see it but since they just had 4 litters in the last month and expecting another I simply don't care if they are offended it is the truth.

A breeder friend of mine just posted this information on facebook and I thought I would share since so many people come here asking about breeders, rare english cremes and all that. Apparently to make matters worse for this breeder they have now started donating puppies to be auctioned for charity to the highest bidder. I think we all need to write letters to stop this. 
Wisteria Goldens Donates an English Cream Golden Retriever Puppy to Benefit Ronald McDonald House of Arkansas

and just incase anyone wonders here is a link to GRCA statement on golden puppies at auctions and raffles and how it is a violation of the code of ethics. Although other stuff I read about this kennel makes me think they probably don't care. How sad! http://www.grca.org/allabout/a_doodle-white.html


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## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

Pointgold said:


> There is no such thing as an "English Cream". Period. There are Golden Retrievers, which come in various shades of gold.
> http://www.grca.org/pec/whitegolden.html
> Breeders selling Golden Retrievers and marketing them as "British Cremes", "English Creams", "Rare British Whites" etc, for inflated prices, are taking advantage of people. Genetic health clearances (for at LEAST 3 generations on both sides), temperament, and soundness, must come first, and color should be the last consideration. Selling dogs and pricing them by color is the sign of a "breeder" whose "knowledge" lies in how to make money off unsuspecting buyers.


 
YES! How many times does this need to be said for buyers to understand?


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## Chilly (Feb 12, 2014)

dresden, 

I purchased a Golden from Wisteria Goldens. I had several phone conversations with the owner before deciding to buy. Well, long story short I bought one. Although the price was a bit steep a better dog i cant ask for. I've owned several Goldens. The "English Creeme" from Wisteria is by far the best tempered, best mannered dog I've had to day. Did i get lucky? MAybe. But I like to think that the owner listened to me, and choose a dog that fit the criteria i was looking for. I bought this dog site unseen. Bottom line, I couldnt be happier with the dog, or the service i received. I know my next dog will be coming from this breeder. I hope this help you.


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