# i welcome your insight and input



## CarolinaCasey

No puppy mills! Just say that you're grateful for the help, but that you'll know when the right dog comes along. It is always a teachable moment to show the person why that puppy isn't a good choice. Every person we teach is another that won't buy from a BYB or mill. 

Your heart is raw with emotion now, so I know that it is hard. However, this dog may come with a lot of health problems that are going to cause more problems and heartache down the road. You are not being called to rescue him. Don't do that to yourself. If these millers keep selling puppies, they have no reason to stop. If they're "stuck" with a puppy for 4-5 months they may realize that they shouldn't be breeding because they can't sell their product.


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## Ljilly28

It is so important to support our good, responsible breeders and let them know we care that they care! I really think you should choose a puppy from a wonderful breeder or rescue a golden in need from a rescue or shelter.


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## LibertyME

Sounds like this is the first time you've opened your heart to the thought of bringing home a dog/pup after Custards passing.
Trust yourself...that door is open...it won't close until you close it...so take your time...let the joy of looking for the pup be a fully conscious experience (heart and mind)...not one that just kind of 'happens' to you.


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## jackie_hubert

Is this dog in rescue? I certainly would encourage you to not give a single penny to an irresponsible breeder. However, if this dog is free or is coming through a rescue group that would be different. 

If it's a Craigslist add, the best way to determine whether it's a broker selling puppies or a someone looking to place a rescue is to look at how much they are asking for for the dog. A $100 adoption fee might be reasonable if it's a third party rescuer.


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## RedWoofs

LibertyME said:


> Sounds like this is the first time you've opened your heart to the thought of bringing home a dog/pup after Custards passing.
> Trust yourself...that door is open...it won't close until you close it...so take your time...let the joy of looking for the pup be a fully conscious experience (heart and mind)...not one that just kind of 'happens' to you.


I have had a golden retreiver by my side for 27 years, no dog less times, so when Custard was declining I knew that a dog would come our way and join us someday. I tend to adopt Old Gold, nothing younger than 10 years. I don't think I'd considered a puppy at all. But this particular face has smitten me. I'm looking on the rescue sites for adult dogs needing homes,a nd can't shake that girl puppy for some reason. Rather than contact the lister i posted here trying to think it through. I like your notion that "it won't close until you close it". Nice words. Thank you.
Sarah


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## RedWoofs

jackie_hubert said:


> Is this dog in rescue? I certainly would encourage you to not give a single penny to an irresponsible breeder. However, if this dog is free or is coming through a rescue group that would be different.
> 
> If it's a Craigslist add, the best way to determine whether it's a broker selling puppies or a someone looking to place a rescue is to look at how much they are asking for for the dog. A $100 adoption fee might be reasonable if it's a third party rescuer.


No she's not in rescue. I'd feel fine if she was and I'd scoop her up right away !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Dallas Gold

Is there a rescue near you? You could probably volunteer to foster and then first dibs when the perfect dog comes along.


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## Karen519

*Red Woofs*

Red Woofs

I am one that goes with my heart and my gut. Don't know what they are charging or if the ad was on craigslist or the circumstances. I would try to find out and protect myself, but if it seems right and the puppy seems healthy, I would leave the door open to this pup.


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## Jax's Mom

Red Woofs...how did your friend happen across this pup? Do they know of the person looking to find the pup a home? Is the pup with a person or with the breeder? Or is it in a puppy mill itself? sorry for the questions. What state are you in, perhaps some of us members could keep an eye out for you.


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## Elisabeth Kazup

I would never buy directly from a puppy mill. And all puppies deserve a good, loving forever home. Go with your heart, your gut and your common sense. 



Karen519 said:


> Red Woofs
> 
> I am one that goes with my heart and my gut. Don't know what they are charging or if the ad was on craigslist or the circumstances. I would try to find out and protect myself, but if it seems right and the puppy seems healthy, I would leave the door open to this pup.


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## DaisyGolden

As much as I don't want to support puppy mills this puppy is already here in the world and needs someone to love it just as much as any other puppy. It doesn't know that it's from a puppy mill and didn't ask to be born there. If you feel like this is a puppy that you really want then go for it. Just like Karen said I would make sure you get all the info you can about its health and everything. I hope it all works out.


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## HiTideGoldens

I would just remember that puppy mills use very cute pictures of puppies as a marketing tool in order to draw you in. It could just be a stock picture they use to advertise. I've even heard of pictures being taken off other websites (like here or facebook) and used in online advertising by puppy mills.


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## RedWoofs

Dallas Gold said:


> Is there a rescue near you? You could probably volunteer to foster and then first dibs when the perfect dog comes along.


Yes. the ridiculous thing is I am active in GR rescue and belong to two organisations. That's why it is even harder for me to believe I am even thinking about that puppy's photo.


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## tippykayak

The problem with "rescuing" a dog from a puppy mill is that your dollars go to produce more puppies who need rescuing. It's not really rescuing if you're making a financial contribution to the mill or breeder who produces more dogs. You do more harm than good if you give them money.

If you can rescue a dog without financially supporting unethical millers, then go for it. I salute anybody who takes on a dog with a less-than-ideal shot at health. I just cannot counsel it if you simply end up making things worse for other dogs down the road.


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## kdel

Do you know anyhing about the pup? This is a tough one but like someone else said - this puppy is already here and needs someone. 

What will happen to her if you don't take her? Is she in any danger?


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## RedWoofs

Jax's Mom said:


> Red Woofs...how did your friend happen across this pup? Do they know of the person looking to find the pup a home? Is the pup with a person or with the breeder? Or is it in a puppy mill itself? sorry for the questions. What state are you in, perhaps some of us members could keep an eye out for you.


She looked on the internet and found an ad saying: "Absolutly Gorgeous litter of AKC reg. Golden Puppies, there are males and females, 4 and 4. puppies will be vet checked, up to date on all shots and wormings, come with full AKC reg. and a one year health guarantee. They are family raised and love kids and other dogs. Born July 1st, ready to go August 26th at 8 weeks. A deposit of 350.00 will hold your pick till they are ready to go. Deposits are non refundable"
I am in MD, near the MD/PA line. The telephone number listed is in PA. PA has nice people in it but they also are big puppy millers so I'm just not sure whether to even call and if so what questions to ask to ensure this is an ok situation. I am currently jotting down questions to ask as I learn more about WHAT to ask thanks to the stickys here.


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## Debles

I agree with the person who said it may be a stock photo and not the actual puppy. You are very vulnerable now and that is why you came to us to ask for advice. Most have said trust your gut about not buying from a puppy mill and you said you get the feeling that is what this is.

Check with the rescues you belong to.

I know I could never stand it very long without a golden in my life. I've had goldens for 38 years.


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## Debles

What kind of health guarantee is it? for a year?


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## Elisabeth Kazup

That DOES sound like a puppy mill ad. Any chance you could visit in person?


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## jackie_hubert

Sounds like your run-if-the-mill backyard breeder. Could be a mill/broker but they usually have kinda different advertising. I'm sure they will all find homes. You can google the phone number. If the number pops up on various websites with various breeds it is likely a mill/broker. 

I think the little face (and I agree, probably stock photo) had caught you attention so that you can investigate this further and maybe find an angle that could shut this place down. 

On a completly different note, since you are involved with rescue...it is not uncommon for animal rights watchdogs to find out that a member of a rescue has given money to a byb/mill and use that to drag the whole organization down. I've seen it happen and it was a PR nightmare.

Good luck on your search. I'm sure you'll find an awesome rescue. I'll keep my eyes on the rescue cases for you!


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## Tammy

I'm sorry, but this is off topic. Just wanted to say that your Custard looks like my Honey.


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## kdel

How exactly do they want you to give them that $350.00? 

I don't know...are they saying you can come see the puppies first?


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## jackie_hubert

There is a 15 months old in Michigan looking for a home! http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...iscussion/102218-female-golden-retriever.html


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## tippykayak

NO WAY would I buy a dog from that ad. Those people are either full-on millers or a BYB selling pups for cash. If you give them $350 and they sell all those pups, they'll have another litter with that bitch as soon as her next heat comes around. And then there will be eight more puppies being sold for $350 each. If they can't sell them all, that's the bitch's only chance at getting out of the next pregnancy and the only chance they'll give up on breeding litters. 

Please don't support this kind of person with your money.


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## kdel

tippykayak said:


> NO WAY would I buy a dog from that ad. Those people are either full-on millers or a BYB selling pups for cash. If you give them $350 and they sell all those pups, they'll have another litter with that bitch as soon as her next heat comes around. And then there will be eight more puppies being sold for $350 each. If they can't sell them all, that's the bitch's only chance at getting out of the next pregnancy and the only chance they'll give up on breeding litters.
> 
> Please don't support this kind of person with your money.


I'm pretty sure $350.00 is just the deposit. I wonder what the full price is?


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## tippykayak

kdel said:


> I'm pretty sure $350.00 is just the deposit. I wonder what the full price is?


Oh yeah. Good point. It's even worse than I said.


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## RedWoofs

Debles said:


> What kind of health guarantee is it? for a year?


Yes for a year


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## RedWoofs

Penny's Mom said:


> That DOES sound like a puppy mill ad. Any chance you could visit in person?


Yes absoultey i can visit in person. it's very close. I think my worry is that if i go i would get her even if it's a BYB becuase I'd not want to leave her there. I'd think to myself "she'd be better with me". When I met my Maggie she was 12 years old and in a well meaning rescuer's house but it wasn't suitable for her age, her deafness, or her atrophy. So she came home right then and there. And lived with me for 2 more years in comfort and love.


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## RedWoofs

Tammy said:


> I'm sorry, but this is off topic. Just wanted to say that your Custard looks like my Honey.


 
Aaaawwwww! Your honey is gorgeous!!!!!!!!!!!!! They do look alot a like. I love sugar faces!! I hope Honey and Custard romp together!


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## Elisabeth Kazup

Well, there is that! lol When it comes to puppies, it's nearly impossible to just have a look-see. Especially if the situation is horrifying. You know yourself well! Leave the checkbook and credit cards home! 



RedWoofs said:


> Yes absoultey i can visit in person. it's very close. I think my worry is that if i go i would get her even if it's a BYB becuase I'd not want to leave her there. I'd think to myself "she'd be better with me". When I met my Maggie she was 12 years old and in a well meaning rescuer's house but it wasn't suitable for her age, her deafness, or her atrophy. So she came home right then and there. And lived with me for 2 more years in comfort and love.


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## RedWoofs

Penny's Mom said:


> Well, there is that! lol When it comes to puppies, it's nearly impossible to just have a look-see. Especially if the situation is horrifying. You know yourself well! Leave the checkbook and credit cards home!


Bwah ha, you give me more "self control" credit than I deserve!!!

Covering all bases, I have just contacted our rescue to make sure my home visit is up to date and I'm ready to adopt if the just right one comes along.

One of my friends just sent me an email about how it's National Dog Day on the 26th. Perhaps it is a good omen of some sort.
Certainly more upbeat than the news of a hurricaine headed this way!!


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## hubbub

RedWoofs said:


> She looked on the internet and found an ad saying: "Absolutly Gorgeous litter of AKC reg. Golden Puppies, there are males and females, 4 and 4. puppies will be vet checked, up to date on all shots and wormings, come with full AKC reg. and a one year health guarantee. They are family raised and love kids and other dogs. Born July 1st, ready to go August 26th at 8 weeks. A deposit of 350.00 will hold your pick till they are ready to go. Deposits are non refundable"
> I am in MD, near the MD/PA line. The telephone number listed is in PA. PA has nice people in it but they also are big puppy millers so I'm just not sure whether to even call and if so what questions to ask to ensure this is an ok situation. I am currently jotting down questions to ask as I learn more about WHAT to ask thanks to the stickys here.


I searched with the information you provided and came up with this listing on PuppyFind.com - if this is the listing and phone number provided, then I would go elsewhere. On the site, this breeder has goldens, beagles and yorkies. If you search for either of the listed phone numbers online, you will find listings for old english bulldogs, labs, boxers. 

I am so sorry for your loss and cannot imagine the pain you are going through right now and how raw your emotions are. I know I will be in incredible pain when my girl goes on and I'm not sure how I will manage. (I barely held it together through our cancer diagnosis and surgery) 

I believe that those of us who care so much for our animals are haunted by the faces of those we cannot help. I still feel immense guilt for 2 situations where I believe I should have done more (really, short of theft I could not). 

That being said, I'm sure your friend was very well meaning, and it pains me to say this, but I would delete the email and your browsing history and, when you're ready, continue looking elsewhere.


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## jackie_hubert

Did you check out the 15 months old that I linked too? Just curious!


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## GinnyinPA

Almost Heaven Golden Retriever Rescue is not that far from you. They have a lot of good dogs right now that need homes. 
Almost Heaven Golden Retriever Rescue and Sanctuary, Inc - A 501(c)(3) Non-Profit Organization


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## RedWoofs

hubbub said:


> I searched with the information you provided and came up with this listing on PuppyFind.com - if this is the listing and phone number provided, then I would go elsewhere. On the site, this breeder has goldens, beagles and yorkies. If you search for either of the listed phone numbers online, you will find listings for old english bulldogs, labs, boxers.
> 
> I am so sorry for your loss and cannot imagine the pain you are going through right now and how raw your emotions are. I know I will be in incredible pain when my girl goes on and I'm not sure how I will manage. (I barely held it together through our cancer diagnosis and surgery)
> 
> I believe that those of us who care so much for our animals are haunted by the faces of those we cannot help. I still feel immense guilt for 2 situations where I believe I should have done more (really, short of theft I could not).
> 
> That being said, I'm sure your friend was very well meaning, and it pains me to say this, but I would delete the email and your browsing history and, when you're ready, continue looking elsewhere.


Thank you for searching. yes, that is the same litter. oh how awful 
You are right, I OUGHT to delete the email and my browsing history. I hope i have the strength to do so


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## RedWoofs

jackie_hubert said:


> Did you check out the 15 months old that I linked too? Just curious!


 
I did. And I forwarded the link to my husband who is at work right now.


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## RedWoofs

GinnyinPA said:


> Almost Heaven Golden Retriever Rescue is not that far from you. They have a lot of good dogs right now that need homes.
> Almost Heaven Golden Retriever Rescue and Sanctuary, Inc - A 501(c)(3) Non-Profit Organization


ooooooohhhhhhh I like Sandee the 8 year old girl!!!!!!!!!!!! Sending her link to my husband to look at her.


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## DNL2448

I can't imagine anyone leaving two dogs with no food or water like that. There's a special place in he// for people like that! 

Sandee is beautiful. She deserves to live out her life with joy and happiness. Good luck!


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## jackie_hubert

Sandee IS beautiful. She deserves a wonderful home like yours!


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## RedWoofs

DNL2448 said:


> I can't imagine anyone leaving two dogs with no food or water like that. There's a special place in he// for people like that!
> 
> Sandee is beautiful. She deserves to live out her life with joy and happiness. Good luck!


I agree!!!!!!!!


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## LibertyME

My husband took pictures at his brothers wedding .... because if he didn't there would be no pictures <sound familiar? Grin> 

We are soooo glad he did..
They are the last pictures we have of our whole family together before my Mother In Law passed away. The pictures are not 'technically' perfect, but they _are perfect_ in every way that truly matters...

Scope out the wedding site.....figure out where the light is best at that time of day...make a list of group shots that you want to capture..
Have fun...dont forget to kiss the bride and groom and be sure to have someone save a piece of cake for you!


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## hubbub

RedWoofs said:


> Thank you for searching. yes, that is the same litter. oh how awful
> You are right, I OUGHT to delete the email and my browsing history. I hope i have the strength to do so


I wish you nothing but the best in your search  I saw Sandee's profile and cried. I believe the right opportunity will present itself to you in time. 

Not a golden story, but I used to say that I never wanted a cat, but *IF* I got one, I would want a HUGE tomcat. Well...several years ago a HUGE tomcat started living under my neighbors storage building. It took me a year to catch him, but the 16.5 pounder is now a part of the pack and loves my old gold girl, even if she doesn't really like it when he tries to snuggle with her on the bed. :


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## RedWoofs

hubub that is a beautiful story. I am going to cling to your idea that indeed the right one will present him/herself. I sent Sandee's info to my husband so he could see her


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## Karen519

*Sandee*

Let us know if you get to meet Sandee! What a beauty!
Adopt a Pet :: Sandee - Delray, WV - Golden Retriever

Almost Heaven is wonderful. They saved a male dog from a kill shelter a year or two ago and found they have to keep him outside, because he doesn't like being alone. I can't find him on their site. His name was either Cody or Chance-believe he was a permanent resident.


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## Hali's Mom

GinnyinPA said:


> Almost Heaven Golden Retriever Rescue is not that far from you. They have a lot of good dogs right now that need homes.
> Almost Heaven Golden Retriever Rescue and Sanctuary, Inc - A 501(c)(3) Non-Profit Organization


Carol Free is the founder of this rescue and she is GREAT


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## Hali's Mom

Karen519 said:


> Let us know if you get to meet Sandee! What a beauty!
> Adopt a Pet :: Sandee - Delray, WV - Golden Retriever
> 
> Almost Heaven is wonderful. They saved a male dog from a kill shelter a year or two ago and found they have to keep him outside, because he doesn't like being alone. I can't find him on their site. His name was either Cody or Chance-believe he was a permanent resident.


His name was Cody and "Time flies" it was 2008.


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## Karen519

*Kathi*

Kathi

I can't find Codi/Cody on the site, can you?


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## GinnyinPA

I think Cody was there when we picked up Ben last November. He was a friendly dog - and a big boy - but Carol said he wouldn't be adopted out because of his issues.


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## Karen519

*Ginny*

Ginny

Now I remember that you said you saw Cody. I am hoping he is still alive and happy there at Almost Heaven!!

*HERE HE IS, SO NOW CODY WOULD BE 4 OR 5 YEARS OLD:
Cody - Golden Retriever mix *
2 - 3 year old Cody is quite a character. He really doesn't like to be inside by himself, though he is a love bug whenever he is with people. Cody would do best in either an invisible fence or living on a farm where he could lounge around inside or out. Cody has never met a stranger and loves other pets, too.


http://www.almostheaven-golden-retri...g/doglist.html

If you are interested in any of these Goldens you must submit an application. You can obtain adoption information and an application by clicking HERE. Completed applications may be emailed to: [email protected].


Contact Information
P.O. Drawer D 
Delray, WV 26714


For the fastest response to your inquiry, please email us at 
[email protected] 

or [email protected] 

http://www.almostheaven-golden-retri...g/doglist.html


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## Karen519

*RedWoofs*

RedWoofs

Are you going to meet Sandee?


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## coppers-mom

I'm coming in late to this thread. All of my dogs have been "one that just kind of 'happens' to you " and they were wonderful.

Go with your heart - even if it is the puppy mill puppy. I know from experience that bringing home a new dog helps your heart heal and one that really needs you helps it heal faster.


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## tippykayak

Please don't give BYBs and puppy mills your money, folks. The one puppy you "save" will give them the cash and the incentive to breed another litter. That puts the poor bitch through another dangerous pregnancy without proper vet care, and brings 5-12 more puppies into the world that need saving.

You do more harm than good, no matter your intentions, if "saving" the puppy means paying the millers.


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## Deb_Bayne

I'm outta here


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## tippykayak

Deb_Bayne said:


> I believe you need to go with your heart's desire, if the pull is that strong towards that puppy then I say go for it. As far as puppy mills, refusing to rescue puppies through no fault of their own from those conditions makes us no better than being those who support them in principal. If your feelings are that strong against puppy mills then start with your local humane societies, local government officials, and contribute toward having them shut down. Why in the meantime should innocent puppies suffer just because they are born?


If you're responding to my comment, I think it's a much more principled stance to keep your money out of the puppy mill system than it is to give your money to support the operation. I hardly think that you're "no better than those who support them" when you refuse to give them money. I think it's both rude and blind to reality to say that my comments make me just as bad as a puppy miller.

If you want to give your money to a miller and ignore the fact that "saving" one puppy on those terms _dooms_ eight more (not to mention the mother), that's your decision. But don't pretend for a second that you're doing more good than harm or that "saving" that puppy is a good, ethical decision.

If you want to _rescue_ a dog, go through a GR rescue or go to your local shelter. That's being a hero. Buying a dog from a miller isn't a rescue, so don't fool yourself. It's lessening one puppy's suffering by increase the suffering of many more. Just because you don't see those other puppies or the poor bitch in a wire cage doesn't mean their suffering isn't just as real as the suffering of the dog you feel you're "saving."


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## jackie_hubert

One way around this is to take note of the condition of the dog and invest your money in stopping these businesses. Petition your city to ban the sale of dogs in stores and the advertising in local papers. Go after craigslist and Kajiji even. Tell everyone you know to stop giving money to these businesses - no demand no business.


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## Deb_Bayne

tippykayak said:


> If you're responding to my comment, I think it's a much more principled stance to keep your money out of the puppy mill system than it is to give your money to support the operation. I hardly think that you're "no better than those who support them" when you refuse to give them money. I think it's both rude and blind to reality to say that my comments make me just as bad as a puppy miller.
> 
> If you want to give your money to a miller and ignore the fact that "saving" one puppy on those terms _dooms_ eight more (not to mention the mother), that's your decision. But don't pretend for a second that you're doing more good than harm or that "saving" that puppy is a good, ethical decision.
> 
> If you want to _rescue_ a dog, go through a GR rescue or go to your local shelter. That's being a hero. Buying a dog from a miller isn't a rescue, so don't fool yourself. It's lessening one puppy's suffering by increase the suffering of many more. Just because you don't see those other puppies or the poor bitch in a wire cage doesn't mean their suffering isn't just as real as the suffering of the dog you feel you're "saving."


here we go again... I didn't quote anyone.


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## tippykayak

Deb_Bayne said:


> here we go again... I didn't quote anyone.


No, but when you paraphrase me and compare what I said to being a puppy miller, you have to assume that I'm not going to leave that alone.


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## Deb_Bayne

excuussse me.... I'm sick of this... words being put in my mouth ... so I'll stop participating here and will be going elsewhere.. good luck to all with your pets....


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## RedWoofs

Karen519 said:


> RedWoofs
> 
> Are you going to meet Sandee?


I am VERY HAPPY to report that beautiful Sandee has been adopted!!!!!!!!!! Sadly not by me but be another person who will love her greatly. I was fillling out the application to adopt her when the news came that Sandee was adopted

So too were Levi and Daisy 

malcolm looks lovely. and SEVA has a dog named Porter that we all love the look of. 

Do you think it's ok to apply to more than one rescue ? one needs to be on the approved list to meet a dog and I'd sure like to be approved should the right one come along. does that make sense?

Sarah


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## fostermom

Oh Porter is adorable! Good luck. I answered your question in your other thread.


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## RedWoofs

Porter has "adopting pending" listed  Hooray!

Their website indicates they adopt to VA,and I'm in MD, so I probably wasn't a candidate to apply


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## jackie_hubert

So happy that they all got adopted! Porter is so cute!


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## Karen519

*Cody*

I asked about Cody and Carol sent an update on him.

Welll - Cody is not a golden - he's probably chow/collie - and he is not adoptable as far as we can see.

Cody is a permanent resident of Almost Heaven.


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## RedWoofs

Karen519 said:


> I asked about Cody and Carol sent an update on him.
> 
> Welll - Cody is not a golden - he's probably chow/collie - and he is not adoptable as far as we can see.
> 
> Cody is a permanent resident of Almost Heaven.


Karen, you know Carol? Do you know anything about Malcolm? bless his heart his photo on the internet doesn't show him too well.

We got our first stamp of approval, from Goldheart, and are waiting for a home visit from GRREAT.

We watched "Air Bud" on TV yesterday and there wasn't a dry eye in the house when the man was mean to the golden retriever!

Thanks to all the input and insight I have successfully made it through Puppy Envy, and have my head back on straight. We are going to adopt an older dog. 

Sarah


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## Karen519

*Redwoofs*

Redwoofs

I only know Carol of Almost Heaven through emlg. her and asking her to save dogs in High Kill shelters, but I understand she is a wonderful woman.

I am sure if you email her or call her and ask about Malcolm she can tell you!


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## coppers-mom

Puppies are toooooo much work IMO. Most of mine have been adults or seniors and they are much easier.

I hope you find you a new love soon. It sure helps your heart heal.


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## Karen519

*Coppers-Mom*

Coppers-Mom

Puppies are too much work-Ken and I thought that too. Tonka was 8 months old when we got him and that age worked out beautifully and Tucker was 2 years old and that worked out great!!


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## RedWoofs

Hello Everyone
I have news! We drove down to Almost Heaven Golden Retreiver Rescue and Sanctuary in West Virgiania to meet "Carson". They are swamped with dogs. We knew we could help SOMEONE so we brought Carson home! He's been with us for 48 hours. He is now renamed "Duncan", has a new collar and tag, an appointment to see my vet on Monday, and is a love. He has two more weeks of restricted activity due to Heartworm treatment, so he's confined to just one room right now, and leash walks. Well, I can tell you he has NO IDEA how to walk on a leash. And he appears to have a strong prey drive, and would very much like to eat our kitty. Any suggestions????? He is HUGE. like seriously big. Here is his photo:


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## BeauShel

Duncan is gorgeous. His smile and eyes remind me of my Daisy girl. Hopefully with time and correction he will learn kitty is off limits. That is how it has always been with my fosters that try to chase my cats. Congratulations on your new baby. Again he is such a gorgeous fella.


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## goldensrbest

He looks like a great golden, so glad you got him.


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## CAROLINA MOM

Congratulations, Duncan is beautiful!!!!!!


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## RedWoofs

BeauShel said:


> Duncan is gorgeous. His smile and eyes remind me of my Daisy girl. Hopefully with time and correction he will learn kitty is off limits. That is how it has always been with my fosters that try to chase my cats. Congratulations on your new baby. Again he is such a gorgeous fella.


Thank you 
How have you "taught" your dogs to not chase your cats? I don't have the foggiest idea how to approach such a strong prey drive. 
Last walk we "treed" a squirrel and he bounced up the trunk like something out of national geographic Big Prey episodes!


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## coppers-mom

Every time Copper chased the cats he got a big No and pulled (yanked) away from them. He learned over time. My little dogs have too now. They all also learned to not chase chickens and that was a harder lesson since the chickens were even more exciting than the cats.

Duncan will learn with time. He looks like such a sweetheart and I know he will healp your heart heal.


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## magiclover

Congratulations on Duncan! He is a very handsome guy. I'm sure Custard would approve.


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## Karen519

*RedWoofs*

RedWoofs

I can just picture DUNCAN treeing the squirrel and the utter amazement on your face. I agree with Foster Mom, Duncan will learn to leave the cats alone-I would follow her suggestions!

Can't wait for more Duncan stories-I know that Custard is looking down and smiling and Duncan will help you all heal.


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## C's Mom

Wow, he's gorgeous! Thank you for giving him a loving home.


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## Debles

Awwww just seeing you have Duncan!! So happy for you. He looks like a sweetheart. Reminds me of my Gunnie. I am sure Custard is so pleased. Hugs.


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## RedWoofs

coppers-mom said:


> Every time Copper chased the cats he got a big No and pulled (yanked) away from them. He learned over time. My little dogs have too now. They all also learned to not chase chickens and that was a harder lesson since the chickens were even more exciting than the cats.
> 
> Duncan will learn with time. He looks like such a sweetheart and I know he will healp your heart heal.


 
Well he treed another squirrel and about dragged me face down in tow. This broken toe is not helping the balance matters. I gave a sharp NO and pulled him to me. He faught against me like a fish on a line but I sort of reeled him in. When he calmed a bit I patted him. Then we walked closer to look but not actually Climb the tree. So, that is squirrels 2, Duncan 0, Sarah not yet dislocated anything! :


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## Sally's Mom

Handsome boy, congrats to you. In regards to puppy mills, I just watched the HBO documentary "Madonna of the Mills" about a woman who helps rehome the no longer wanted breeding dogs from the millers. When you buy a pet store puppy, you are not rescuing it. Instead you are ensuring that the parents of that pup will continue to be bred to continue the supply. The video in this documentary would make most normal people refuse to buy a pup from a pet store....


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## Dallas Gold

Congratulations to you--Duncan is such a lucky boy!


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## GinnyinPA

He IS a big dog! How much does he weigh? Was he trained at all or just not to walking on a leash? Do you know anything about his history? So sad to think of how restricted his life must have been if he never learned how to walk. It takes some time and patience to teach them not to pull, but it is possible. 

One of the things with rescue dogs - at first the problems can seem so big, it can be overwhelming. As you work together and your relationship develops, eventually you start seeing progress in small ways on many different fronts. In just a few months the changes add up and you realize that many of the initial issues that seemed so insurmountable are totally gone.


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## hubbub

Just back to the forum and SOOOO glad to see Duncan! Congratulations!

My girl has a massive prey drive and we have tree climbing episodes like you describe. One night, I had my girl and a friend's golden out for a walk, they saw the cat crossing the street before I had time to brace....you can guess what happened next....I was flat out in the road and furious. My friend's dog came right back to see if I was ok, but mine? Nope, only when the cat was out of sight did she turn her attention back to me :doh:

In all honesty, things are better. Only occasional pulling on the leash and not really hard, but in the yard, unleashed....forget it. All the squirrels moved house to the front yard! This spring every pine tree in the front had a nest in it. They pretty much stick to the edge of the back fence now and dart through as soon as she's out the door. When all the new babies are out of the nest, we have to do "squirrel checks" before letting her out. For her sake (since the TPLO surgery) and theirs. 

Our cat though she has basically stopped chasing. The only time she chases him is if he's already running. But, when he stops, so does she - game over.


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## SandyK

Congrats!!! Duncan is a handsome "big" boy. I hope his prey drive gets easier to control so I don't read about you getting hurt. Duncan is a lucky boy to have a new home!!


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## Karen519

*RedWoofs*

RedWoofs

How is Duncan doing and did you find any help for the prey drive?


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## RedWoofs

GinnyinPA said:


> He IS a big dog! How much does he weigh? Was he trained at all or just not to walking on a leash? Do you know anything about his history? So sad to think of how restricted his life must have been if he never learned how to walk. It takes some time and patience to teach them not to pull, but it is possible.
> 
> One of the things with rescue dogs - at first the problems can seem so big, it can be overwhelming. As you work together and your relationship develops, eventually you start seeing progress in small ways on many different fronts. In just a few months the changes add up and you realize that many of the initial issues that seemed so insurmountable are totally gone.


He's the second biggest GR i've ever seen. He's 101 lbs. And that is during heartworm treatment. Even my vet was impressed with his size! I don't know anything about his history other than he was abondoned in Indiana, transported to Kentucky, tested postive for HW, then transported to W VA, began treatment, spent weeks restricted, then drove home with us to MD. I am glad to hear that that it is possible to teach a mature dog to walk nicely. You are right ,it did seem overwhelming but day by day we are learning each other and our routines and getting the hang of each other. He now knows his new name. He understands Sit and will do it sometimes. He knows "this way" and eases up on the leash a bit i nthe correct direction. And sometimes "leave it" has some effect. I am happy to report that I still have my arms attached and a live cat. We are supposed to keep Duncan calm and quiet. We saw the vet and and Duncan goes for his next phase of heartworm treatment Thursday of this week. We were told until he's t hrough this there will be no real training allowed. The cat on the other side of the gate was just too much. So we had to do SOME training. Hamish (the cat) will growl and swat and move slowly. Duncan will follow him everywhere if given the chance. but no injuries. not much sleep for the humans either! Every once in a while "leave it" will result in Duncan looking to us, coming towards us, getting praise, and then dashing back b/c he just can't take it. So indoors is much improved. 
Outside on the leash is still hard but certainly easier. When we are not seeing squirrels or cats he's walking a bit better / less pulling. When there is a squirrel Duncan bolts and I fly behind him like a kite. He'd go over the split rail fence for a deer in a heartbeat but I'm attached and so far so good!
We love him and he loves us. We'll find a way through this! Once he is medically cleared I'm going to use a trainer. Meanwhile we do 'casual' in home sorts of redirection.


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## RedWoofs

hubbub said:


> Just back to the forum and SOOOO glad to see Duncan! Congratulations!
> 
> My girl has a massive prey drive and we have tree climbing episodes like you describe. One night, I had my girl and a friend's golden out for a walk, they saw the cat crossing the street before I had time to brace....you can guess what happened next....I was flat out in the road and furious. My friend's dog came right back to see if I was ok, but mine? Nope, only when the cat was out of sight did she turn her attention back to me :doh:
> 
> In all honesty, things are better. Only occasional pulling on the leash and not really hard, but in the yard, unleashed....forget it. All the squirrels moved house to the front yard! This spring every pine tree in the front had a nest in it. They pretty much stick to the edge of the back fence now and dart through as soon as she's out the door. When all the new babies are out of the nest, we have to do "squirrel checks" before letting her out. For her sake (since the TPLO surgery) and theirs.
> 
> Our cat though she has basically stopped chasing. The only time she chases him is if he's already running. But, when he stops, so does she - game over.


Yep, what you are describing is right up our tree!!!!!!!!!
What kind of collar does your dog wear? Duncan wears a basic flat one by Up country.

Things have improved inside. the cat is moving slowly and that keeps Duncan from freaking. Smart kitty. But if the cat moves quickly Duncan is excited. So basically we have the cat walking slooooooowwwwwwlllllyyyy along with the dog inches from his derriere where ever he goes and is given the chance to follow. 

What's even MORE exciting than cats, squirrels or deer? HAMSTERS!!!!! We've had to keep the door closed to my study since Duncan is beside himself with the robovoski hamsters. He loves that they are in a fabulous glass box and is sure he can get it open. oh my


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## Karen519

*RedWoofs*

RedWoofs

You are so funny when you write.
Our Tonka and Tucker have Premier Collars-Sort of choke collars that are mesh. When we walk Tonka we need to use the prong collar, otherwise he pulls so much!


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## RedWoofs

can one leave a martingale style collar on 24/7 ?


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## Karen519

*RedWoofs*

RedWoofs

Premier Collars are also called Martingale Collars.
We leave them on our dogs 24/7, but I've heard people that take them off when the dog is not going out as if they catch it on something or it gets caught in another dogs foot or mouth they can choke.


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## RedWoofs

i am just looking at them on line now 
I had no idea there were so many collar styles! i just always used Up Country adjustable flat ones


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## Angelina

I am so impressed you have taken this dog on and welcomed him into your home. The world needs more angels like you; there are just too many dogs that need to be rescued. I look forward to your updates and enjoy your writing style. K


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## RedWoofs

Angelina said:


> I am so impressed you have taken this dog on and welcomed him into your home. The world needs more angels like you; there are just too many dogs that need to be rescued. I look forward to your updates and enjoy your writing style. K


Thank you!!!! I can't say I dont have moments of worrying I've bitten off more than I can handle, because I do. I worry about the harmony of our lives. I worry about the financial issues (we're STILL feeling the outcomes of the house fire and change of lifestyle even now). But I do love him and all 3 of us feel like he needs us and it was meant to be. My 7 year old son, as i explained to him what might be entailed in adopting a dog with health issues and treatments, said to me "Maybe it's that no one else will adopt him. Maybe it's becuase he needs us" and that is how we drove the 2 hours to meet him. While we were at the sanctuary we fell in love with a cute smaller dog named Hatch. Perfect Child's Dog!! We were torn, b/c we wanted both but can't afford that. Ultimately my son chose Duncan stating "hatch is sweet and small and easy to find a forever home. Maybe noboduy wants a Huge dog with health problems. Let's get him so he has a home". Did I mention I love my son????!!!!!! And that when asked what he wants to be when he grows up he answers "Animal Rescuer" or sometimes Zookeeper.


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## Angelina

You have a very wise son!


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## RedWoofs

thank you!!

i am proud of him


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## hubbub

RedWoofs said:


> ...I am happy to report that I still have my arms attached and a live cat....When there is a squirrel Duncan bolts and I fly behind him like a kite. He'd go over the split rail fence for a deer in a heartbeat but I'm attached and so far so good!


I was laughing out loud at your descriptions! At least you can see the humor in the situation....it makes the frustration more bearable :



RedWoofs said:


> Yep, what you are describing is right up our tree!!!!!!!!! What kind of collar does your dog wear? Duncan wears a basic flat one by Up country.
> 
> Things have improved inside. the cat is moving slowly and that keeps Duncan from freaking. Smart kitty. But if the cat moves quickly Duncan is excited. So basically we have the cat walking slooooooowwwwwwlllllyyyy along with the dog inches from his derriere where ever he goes and is given the chance to follow.
> 
> What's even MORE exciting than cats, squirrels or deer? HAMSTERS!!!!! We've had to keep the door closed to my study since Duncan is beside himself with the robovoski hamsters. He loves that they are in a fabulous glass box and is sure he can get it open. oh my


She wears a basic nylon snap collar. We tried several others (martingale, prong, harness), but seems to do best with a basic flat collar. As far as the slow cat with the velco dog nose at the rump, we see it regularly and now it's often the other way around (he'll come sniff her rump, feet or face and then he'll hop off like a bunny.  

I'm not sure how she'd react to *hamsters* (I guess it would be like chipmunks inside - Heavenly!!!) or actually seeing a *deer *(she usually just tracks them when we hike). She has stare downs with coyotes (which turn into barking sessions when they leave). The only thing that really spooks her animal-wise are turtles. She just quivers when she goes to sniff them and has the funniest expression. :



RedWoofs said:


> My 7 year old son, as i explained to him what might be entailed in adopting a dog with health issues and treatments, said to me "Maybe it's that no one else will adopt him. Maybe it's becuase he needs us" and that is how we drove the 2 hours to meet him...Ultimately my son chose Duncan stating "hatch is sweet and small and easy to find a forever home. Maybe noboduy wants a Huge dog with health problems. Let's get him so he has a home". Did I mention I love my son????!!!!!! And that when asked what he wants to be when he grows up he answers "Animal Rescuer" or sometimes Zookeeper.


Your son is just fantastic and has incredible insight!


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## RedWoofs

Ok she's fine with cayotes but turtles make her quiver. My turn to giggle! I can just SEE it 

awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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