# possession - aggression



## Wenderwoman (Jan 7, 2013)

It will depend a little on how aggressive you think he is. This general answer is to teach them "leave it" and "drop it." 

When he already has something he shouldn't, say "drop it" and trade him a treat for the object. Do this repeatedly.

I train my dogs to "leave it" by putting a treat in front of them and telling them to "leave it." Start with a short time and gradually increase it. You have to be pretty quick at first or they might steal the treat. Once they've waited long enough, say "Good boy, okay". Okay is the command to get the treat.

For serious objects they should leave alone for good, I step between the dog and the object and say "leave it." You may have to slowly move toward the dog to get them to move away from the object. Do not move backward. This is for things like rocks or yucky stuff they find on walks that they want to smell or eat. Eventually it gets easier and they just walk on by.

If you have absolutely no fear that he will bite you, if you go to take it and he guards, simply say no and take it away. If he snaps (in a non-threatening way) at you, crate him for a few minutes. He should stop after a few tries. If he continues, it would probably be best not to give him whatever that is.

However, keep it in mind if you ever want a super special reward. My dogs get a little possessive of soup bones so the only time I will give them a soup bone is at bath time. But, even these, I can take from them without them bothering me. It's the other dogs that they will guard from.


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## simonetin (Oct 1, 2015)

there problem is that Oliver already knows "drop it" or "leave it"... so i really don't know why he acts like that...


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## Goldylover2 (May 1, 2014)

My pup was real possessive aggressive. This was our second golden and we didn't go through this at all with our first golden. I probably dealt with it the wrong way. He would come at us if we tried to get him to drop what he shouldn't have. A long story short. We had to seek out a trainer to help us with this problem and other issues. He's almost two years old now and drops things quickly. Just the other day I gave him a newer bone. I told him to heel and he dropped it and came over to me. Two months ago I gave him that same bone which was brand new. He took it under the kitchen table and I approached him. He went into an Immediate growl. I had his e-collar on. I gave him a light shock and told him to heel. He came out from under the table and submitted. In two months, I think he's finally turned the corner completely. No growling or attacking us anymore. Lol!!! I would do the drop it and trade for a treat like Wenderwoman said. Don't try to take it out of his mouth from the get go. Unless it's real dangerous for him to have, whatever it is. Because my golden pup would try to bite me. This was when he was around six months old. So practice that and just maybe he'll get it.


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## Wenderwoman (Jan 7, 2013)

Also, you should be getting your dog used to having his mouth, ears and feet felt. Do this only if you feel VERY confident your dog will not bite you. So pick a time they are nice and calm. Open the dogs mouth and touch the teeth, gums and tongue. Look in the ears and gently touch inside. Touch the paws and feel between the toes. This makes vet visits much easier.

You should do this every day. I did this with my dogs from the day I got them and I can just open their mouths and fish around all I want.

Don't do that if you are afraid they will bite though.


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## Wenderwoman (Jan 7, 2013)

simonetin said:


> there problem is that Oliver already knows "drop it" or "leave it"... so i really don't know why he acts like that...


He probably just really likes it. If it's just that one object, it might be simplest to just not give him that.

Are you afraid he will bite you? You really only have two options; 1) don't give it to him or 2) establish that the behavior is wrong. To establish that the behavior is wrong you have to challenge him and make him understand that he cannot behave that way. You have to say no and take it away and then if he snaps, crate him for no more than 15 minutes. Though you can possibly try holding it while he chews it and not letting him run with it. Then you can take it away whenever you want because you never let it go but you're still not teaching him that he has to let you take things away or, at least, not bite you or be aggressive if you do.

If you are afraid to do that or believe he will bite you, then just don't give it to him. But, I would get a trainer to work with him. What if a kid came up to him and tried to grab something?


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

This is called resource guarding. You can stop giving him the items for now. However, I believe it is the responsibility of every dog owner to resource-guard-proof their dog. Otherwise, there could be a dangerous incident.

We briefly owned a puppy (6 months) who had been resource-guarding-trained the WRONG way by another owner. Dog was very submissive. The owner would put her hands in the dog's food, take things away to show she (human) was in charge, etc. The dog appeared very docile. She was very obedient. So sweet and cuddly. Loved her. My daughter hugged her very briefly when the dog had a toy. Just a toy, not a bone. The dog bit her on the face. Thank the high heavens, she had great bite inhibition and didn't leave a mark, but because of this aggression, every pro we talked to said we had to rehome. (she would also air snap at my daughter.) The problem is, had she ever growled and the owner punished the growl, she was taking away a warning sign. A growl tells you to be careful. This dog went right to a bite. A highly inhibited bite, but a bite. 

With our dog-- we did it right. We made him feel safe and happy with people near his food. As in, people would never take his things, but would give him more instead. If someone did take something, they always gave him something better. Again and again. All the time, regularly. This dog will bring us his high value treats to eat near us or on top of us. He is a much, much, MUch safer dog.

Check out the book Mine!. Look into ways he will feel secure and not threatened with his goodies. He can rip your face off, truth be told. Human vs big dog-- the dog will win. Treat them with respect and they will respect you back.


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## Wenderwoman (Jan 7, 2013)

Anele said:


> This is called resource guarding. You can stop giving him the items for now. However, I believe it is the responsibility of every dog owner to resource-guard-proof their dog. Otherwise, there could be a dangerous incident.
> 
> We briefly owned a puppy (6 months) who had been resource-guarding-trained the WRONG way by another owner. Dog was very submissive. The owner would put her hands in the dog's food, take things away to show she (human) was in charge, etc. The dog appeared very docile. She was very obedient. So sweet and cuddly. Loved her. My daughter hugged her very briefly when the dog had a toy. Just a toy, not a bone. The dog bit her on the face. Thank the high heavens, she had great bite inhibition and didn't leave a mark, but because of this aggression, every pro we talked to said we had to rehome. (she would also air snap at my daughter.) The problem is, had she ever growled and the owner punished the growl, she was taking away a warning sign. A growl tells you to be careful. This dog went right to a bite. A highly inhibited bite, but a bite.
> 
> ...


I think you make some very good points. There are two things going on; one is aggression and the other is possession. The method you described is great for possessiveness and teaching them they don't need to be possessive. I just got a rescue that has a little food aggression and that's how I am training her but I ALSO correct for aggression. If she allows me to trade without growling or snapping, she gets the higher value treat. But what happens when the don't trade nicely? What do you do if they continue to growl and snap at you? Personally, I crate them and say "no bite." Is there a better way to handle that part? Actually, I do this whenever the puppy gets too wild or aggressive. I don't crate them long but I hope I am clear that acting wild is not welcome.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

Wenderwoman said:


> I think you make some very good points. There are two things going on; one is aggression and the other is possession. The method you described is great for possessiveness and teaching them they don't need to be possessive. I just got a rescue that has a little food aggression and that's how I am training her but I ALSO correct for aggression. If she allows me to trade without growling or snapping, she gets the higher value treat. But what happens when the don't trade nicely? What do you do if they continue to growl and snap at you? Personally, I crate them and say "no bite." Is there a better way to handle that part? Actually, I do this whenever the puppy gets too wild or aggressive. I don't crate them long but I hope I am clear that acting wild is not welcome.


When you say, correct for aggression, you mean you are correcting for growling and snapping? Here's the potential problem with that. When a dog is growling and snapping (not making contact) the dog is warning you. The dog is telling you, I don't feel safe-- stay back. Dogs generally don't want to bite. They do what they can to avoid biting-- until their warnings go unheeded. So each time you tell a dog not to growl or snap, then you take away the warnings. It's like getting mad at your car for showing a "low fuel" sign, taking out the lightbulb so that it no longer shows-- and then you run out of gas.

If the dog is growling and snapping, you are going over the dog's threshold. It is very important not to go over the threshold because dogs get "better" at what they practice. The more the dog growls and snaps, the more it's cemented in the brain. The more you do to keep the dog happy under the threshold, the more the dog will practice being happy. So, it means you are proceeding too quickly. You should not be trading with the dog yet. It's too soon. At this point, you should only be giving the dog MORE of whatever good treat and not taking anything away yet. I would also not be putting the dog in the crate as punishment. If the dog growls and snaps-- don't blame the dog-- it's you who pushed too fast. You have a rescue which means she may have been through a lot. Put time into gaining her trust.


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## Wenderwoman (Jan 7, 2013)

Anele said:


> When you say, correct for aggression, you mean you are correcting for growling and snapping?


No, I am not necessarily correcting for growling or snapping. I am correcting for aggression or wildness. I admit it is something of a tight rope and it means knowing your dog. It is more about recognizing they are reaching their threshold and removing them from the situation. Frankly, I never have to crate my older dogs. It is just the puppy and I find that sometimes, just like children, the puppy just doesn't want to rest when she's tired. She just wants to play, play, play. And, more often than not when I crate her for wildness, she falls asleep very quickly. If she doesn't fall asleep, she only stays in there for a short time. This is not something I do every other minute. It's pretty rare. I don't believe I am teaching her not to growl or bark, I am training her to stop at her threshold. This is how I trained my 3 year old and she is just fine and will growl and bark just fine.

Here is the difference. I am not teaching her not to growl or bark. It is completely situational when I correct for growling or snapping. If it's appropriate, I do not correct. I have two other dogs and they give warning growls all the time. Frankly, my 3 year old Golden is the best at correcting the puppy with growls and snaps. First she will growl lowly, then growl a bit more and maybe show her teeth and then finally, snap and bark and NEVER come close to biting her. That was at first but now the puppy pretty much knows to stop around mid-growl. So, even dogs will correct puppies, I don't see why we can't as well. I don't mean constantly crating them or ever hitting them but I do think I can tell her to stop and warn ("growl") myself and then snap ("crate") when she does not respond.

As a rescue, she is a little different, she has already self-rewarded for bad behaviors and it takes a little more seriousness and consistency to break that. Keep in mind, also, that most of the time she is being trained exactly as you suggest by making positive associations as much as possible. But once in awhile, she gets all crazy and unresponsive and either me or one of the other dogs will correct her. It just depends on what level she is at. The preferred corrections are ignoring, distracting or trading with bad behavior and treating for good behavior. It is only those off moments where nothing seems to be working that she will be crated. Though I've also noticed that sometimes she has to poop when she's crazed so, I'll let her out. If she was just out though, she's probably tired or just having a puppy moment that needs a time-out. I don't shove her in her crate meanly, I just point and she trots in there and gets a treat and lies down.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

I agree that putting a puppy in the crate for a nap (via a treat) or just to settle is a great way to handle it. My dog would never nap on his own, so I would put him in there for naps as needed. Now he loves it.

As for the growling and snapping-- no, I don't think we can correct the way dogs can. Dogs know we aren't dogs. But, I think there is a huge difference in context, as you said, for growling. Between dogs, it's different. In play, it's different. But I thought you meant your dog was growling and snapping regarding having a bone or chew or food. So, I misunderstood. I don't know when your dog is growling. Depends what the dog is trying to communicate for me to think about how to handle it. I think I don't know the details of your situation to advise. If you feel it's going well, then follow your instincts.


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## Wenderwoman (Jan 7, 2013)

Anele said:


> I agree that putting a puppy in the crate for a nap (via a treat) or just to settle is a great way to handle it. My dog would never nap on his own, so I would put him in there for naps as needed. Now he loves it.
> 
> As for the growling and snapping-- no, I don't think we can correct the way dogs can. Dogs know we aren't dogs. But, I think there is a huge difference in context, as you said, for growling. Between dogs, it's different. In play, it's different. But I thought you meant your dog was growling and snapping regarding having a bone or chew or food. So, I misunderstood. I don't know when your dog is growling. Depends what the dog is trying to communicate for me to think about how to handle it. I think I don't know the details of your situation to advise. If you feel it's going well, then follow your instincts.


No, you are right. She has growled related to food or treats and a teensy bit when I get in her face too quickly. It is very situational and, come to think of it, I will usually let her growl a little but if she ever snaps at me I pretty much have a zero tolerance about biting people and she immediately goes in the crate. I host holidays with young kids around so biting of any kind toward a person puts them right in a crate or room. If it's a skirmish between the dogs, I just watch them carefully for signs it's gone too far.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

simonetin said:


> hi guys, i have some problem with Oliver, 4 months old.
> I just noticed that when he has his bone in his mouth you can not even think to go around him.
> he will start to growl , bark and run.
> he does not have any particular problem with the obedience. when is time to eat, he is ok. i can pet him, touch the bowl, remove the food ecc.
> ...



Oliver is a puppy, acting on instinct. He has a very high value food type item, that in his world, he has a 'right' to keep and he believes that you want to steal it from him. You have shown him you cannot be trusted to not 'steal' his food by touching or removing his bowl when he is eating. Even though he allows it, food that he gets everyday is not as high value to him as a 'treat' such as a bone, it does not mean that he is not willing or able, by nature, to try 'harder' to keep an item that is rarer and higher value to him. 
In the dog world the 'right of possession' (I get to keep what I have) is understood without question by other socially appropriate dogs.
When we inadvertently or purposely 'threaten' (from their perspective), approach them, reach for them, to take the item they are willing to defend their right, in their world, to keep, they may respond they way your puppy did. When we are unaware of and/or have missed the warning signals, telling us, even before we get close, that our dog is not feeling safe or good about our behavior in that situation, we force them to 'escalate' from 'silent' signals to vocal warning. Those signals are often quick, easy to miss, he may look at you and then look away, he may stop eating/chewing, or eat faster, push his muzzle into the bowl, the ears may go back, the body tense up, tail may drop, eyes may get bigger, he may hover his head over the item he feels the need to protect, or you may see 'whale eye', when this is happening he is trying to say 'please stay away'. When we miss or ignore those signals, and persist (from their perspective) our dogs have no choice but to get 'louder', growl, bark, run away with the item, if they can, if they can't they may escalate, if they feel the need, as a last resort, snap or bite. If we miss or ignore the early warning signals often enough, or punish (to stop) the vocal warnings, our dogs learn not to give them, we don't listen anyway, and we risk creating a dog who 'bites without warning'. 

If you are going to give him high value items such as a bone, give it to him in a place where can enjoy it, without interruption, or feeling threatened that you might take it away. If you want /need him to leave it, avoid approaching him, try cheerfully calling him away from the bone, into another room, or inside if he is outside, reward him big time for coming, toss some super high value treats on the floor, and pick up the bone while he is distracted with eating the treats. Do a few practice sessions, allow him to go back to the bone, repeating, calling him away from it, and rewarding him for coming, so that he learns that when he leaves his bone, he will not always lose it, so when you do have to pick it up, he will take it more in stride.

Instead of petting him, touching or taking his bowl when he is trying to eat, to help him be 'safer', feel more comfortable with people around while he is eating, start by tossing high value treats from a distance that he is comfortable with you being at, perhaps a few feet away, perhaps farther than that. The goal is to help him understand that when you are nearby, when he is eating only good things happen - he gets MORE! Slowly, over a period of days, weeks, if that is what it takes, decrease the distance you toss the treats from, the goal is to be able to drop the treats in his bowl. Ensure that before you move closer, he is feeling good about, anticipating, the treat by looking to you, his body is relaxed, with you at that distance. With practice, and patience over time he will begin to associate your presence when he is eating with 'more'/better things to come.


Teach him to 'Trade'. Start with a toy that he has access to on a regular basis, when he has it in his mouth, call him to you, offer him a treat,(start with a lower value treat, such as kibble or treats that he normally gets) place it in front of his nose so he can smell it, and say 'Give' or 'Drop it' when he does, give him the treat, lots of praise, then immediately give him back the toy - saying 'Take it'. Practice, and practice some more, make it habit for yourself to trade. You will know he has 'got it' when you give him the 'Give' cue, and he automatically drops the item. Work up to more difficult items, a new toy, a stolen sock or tissue is going to be of higher value to him, so you will need to use a higher value treat. Over time you can phase out the food rewards, (substituting other rewards, praise, pets, if he enjoys it, play) but do use them intermittently, and especially when he has done something amazing, like brought a 'forbidden' item to you. Helping him learn that that even though he will not get a treat every time, something good will happen when he chooses to give up something he has. Don't be too quick to phase out the food rewards, and don't forget to give lots of praise, along with those, (the longer, and more highly, you reinforce the behavior you want, the more established, automatic, it will become.) 



ps. Your English is just fine!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Couldn't have said what Charliethree said better.


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