# She's 5. Any hope in obedience class?



## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

It is never too late to teach an old dog new tricks. A basic class will be lots of fun for both of you. Go for it for sure.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

A basic class will help you communicate with her better, and help her learn to respond to you.

However, your typical basic training class does not have exercises specifically for recalilng against distractions, nor does it address barking. Classes and learning new things are great for improving the quality of life for -any- dog. 

However, with a simple purchased or free online training protocol, you can work to improve your recall. 

Definitely do the class, but it won't likely solve your challenges.


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## spruce (Mar 13, 2008)

someone asked in our Obedience I class about later enrolling a 7 year old lab - the trainer said that was a great age for class and they get alot of "older" dogs -


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Never too late to train! 

I'd find out how the recall is taught in the class you're interested in. The Beginner classes I teach do happen to cover teaching the important 180 degree turn away from distractions, but not all classes do. Some keep the recall as more of a formal, stationary exercise where you sit the dog, leave, call the dog to you and unfortunatly, that does little to teach leaving distractions.

I've written up my recall training protocol and I know several people here have used it with success. It's in two parts. If you go to www.examiner.com and search Stephanie Colman, you'll find links to my articles. There are two recall articles there.

My oldest dog is 9 and we still take classes from time to time; keeping the skills fresh and for the alone time. Classes are never a bad idea (IMO) so long as they're reward-based and seek to strengthen the trusting relationship with you and your dog. You might also consider a private lesson w/ a trainer to address the two behaviors of most interest to you: barking and recall.


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## LauraBella (Feb 9, 2010)

So, how do I choose a trainer? I know there are group classes at PetSmart, and at least one other trainer mentioned by my vet. I assume there are more in my area. So, hopefully, there are options.

I now know to discuss recall (thanks!), what else should I consider when choosing someone?

And, okay, I happen to be out of work right now, so I have no impediment to frequent classes. Is that considered good or bad? Like, would it be good for us to ask for frequent classes...or better to have more days of practice between classes?

I do like the idea of private classes...if they are not prohibitively more expensive than group ones.


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## LauraBella (Feb 9, 2010)

(BTW, I did get her in. Though several neighborhood dogs are still barking at deer. So, I think she's not entirely hopeless.)


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## Muddypaws (Apr 20, 2009)

Dogs are never to old to learn and Goldens love learning and working with you. It's really "you" that will have to work with your dog, everyday if possible. You need to be consistent, patient and up beat. When you get frustrated (and you will) stop. Most cases when your dog isn't responding it you not her (just happened to me in class today). 

Ask "dog" friends and acquaintances for recommendations on training facilities. I would definitely go with a class and not private, you get a lot out of a class and your dog gets some socialization. The trainer will give you ideas on training a recall. Just realize the "recall" is always "in training" deer, cats, bunnies (squirrels - I hate squirrels) are constant distractions.

You will discover a whole new depth in your relationship and it's so much fun.

Good-luck


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Here's the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior paper on how to find a trainer:
http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonl...sition_Statements/how to choose a trainer.pdf

I would not go with petsmart, as you'll want to find someplace with more space and a safe environment to practice off leash recalls in the class... (..though again, I think you'd be better off with a written protocol like provided above).


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## LauraBella (Feb 9, 2010)

Having trouble finding the articles....


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

If there are any all breed or golden retriever clubs in your area (or any obedience clubs) contact them for information on classes--even though obedience clubs concentrate on competitive obedience, several schedule an "every day" or "basic" obedience class--or one tailored to taking the CGC (Canine Good Citizenship) exam. The people who belong to all breed or golden clubs will know who the good trainers are in your area (IMHO).

I also agree that you can teach an old, spoiled dog new tricks. My late, great "King" Jake, who thought the earth and sun revolved around him, because that's how we treated him, was also a late bloomer. My wake up call was when South Florida was hit with back to back to back hurricanes and it took forever for us to get our fence put back up; Jake could not be trusted off lead, and it was dangerous to have him run out and swim in the lake across the street--we have gators and snakes in our lake.

So a training we did go, and it was such a delightful journey! Jake earned his CGC at age 7; his therapy dog designation at age 8; his rally novice title at age 9 and his Companion Dog title at age 10. I attended both individual and group classes, and I have such wonderful memories reforming my bratty boy!


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## LauraBella (Feb 9, 2010)

Okay, I called my vet (who is out today) and left a message for her, asking for some obedience instructor recs. I don't know of any all-breed clubs in the area....

I also called two trainers. One from the phone book, left a message. The other was someone whose card I somehow had.... 

From speaking to her, I think she wants to punish my dog? She was talking about "finding what would stop the behavior"...does this mean she's going to strike my dog???? She definitely, and decidedly, mentioned punishment. I HAVE to know, but somehow couldn't formulate the sentence! She also seemed.... Sigh, do I have any hope of finding a trainer who isn't going to shame me for not training her earlier? And, she seemed to think that Belles needs two years of training before I get to spoil her! I think I am not a good match with this woman....

Sigh....


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## Muddypaws (Apr 20, 2009)

LauraBella said:


> From speaking to her, I think she wants to punish my dog? She was talking about "finding what would stop the behavior"...does this mean she's going to strike my dog???? I HAVE to know, but somehow couldn't formulate the sentence! She also seemed.... Sigh, do I have any hope of finding a trainer who isn't going to shame me for not training her earlier? And, she seemed to think that Belles needs two years of training before I get to spoil her! I think I am not a good match with this woman....
> 
> Sigh....


I think I would steer clear of this woman, no instructor should shame you for not training or spoiling, they should commend you for recognizing that you need to start training and encourage you to start. They should be positive and upbeat and above all you should feel "good" about working with this person. A good instructor will NEVER punish a dog, it is all about positive reinforcement. How does she know "what" Belle needs without meeting both you and your dog and accessing the two of you together in person.

You have good advice in this thread, find a local club and contact them for advice. There are more trainers around then you think. Keep searching the right person/s are out there.


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## LauraBella (Feb 9, 2010)

How would I FIND a local club? I don't actually know of any. 

Thank you all for all of your help!!!


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

LauraBella, what part of the country are you in? What city, state? I bet I can find a club in your area.


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## LauraBella (Feb 9, 2010)

Tri-Cities area (That's Johnson City, Bristol, and Kingsport) in northeast Tennessee.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

How rough... you're smart to steer clear of that person! If anyone is making you feel bad...definitely go elsewhere.

One of these people may know someone closer to you. KPA trainers you can be sure will not use punishment with you or your dog. 

http://karenpryoracademy.com/find-a-trainer?filter0=TN&filter1=&filter2=&filter3=


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## LauraBella (Feb 9, 2010)

Thanks for the help. Unfortunately, none of the Tennessee or Virginia trainers on the KPA site are anywhere closeby.


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

LauraBella, you said Kingsport? The Greater Kingsport Kennel Club is having a beginning obedience class on the 18th of March--$80 for 6 weeks. That's a bit more than $13 per class, but it's been my experience that with training, you get what you pay for--at least here's a beginning to check out. 

Greater Kingsport Kennel Club
Secretary Corresponding : Dottie Foulk
Address: 306 Tucker Hollow Rd, Fall Branch, TN , 37656--204
Website: www.gkkc.org/
Email: [email protected]
Club Type: All Breed
Club Detail: Click here


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

Have a few postcards? Or can you cross reference with the phone book? Here's some contact info for the local German Shepherd club--these people would certainly know trainers, or there would be trainers among them--explain what you're looking for--just basic, everyday obedience for a spoiled goldie--german shepherd people, I have found, are very savvy dog owners--you must be to own a GSD. BTW, I found these going on the AKC web site, under dog clubs.

Smoky Mountain German Shepherd Dog Club
Secretary Corresponding : Jan Leblanc
Address: 108 Stallard St, Kingsport, TN , 37663-4700
Club Type: Specialty

President
Eddie Seabolt 705 Independence Ave
Mt Carmel, TN 37645

Secretary Corresponding
Jan Leblanc 108 Stallard St
Kingsport, TN 37663

Treasurer
Susan Skeen 6392 Carters Valley Rd
Church Hill, TN 37642

Breeder Referral Contact
Betsy Carpenter 4313 Stagecoach Rd
Kingsport, TN 37664


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Contacting anyone and asking for closer references is always a good idea. Even if a club/trainer is too far away, they likely will have someone to refer you to.


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## LauraBella (Feb 9, 2010)

rappwizard said:


> LauraBella, you said Kingsport? The Greater Kingsport Kennel Club is having a beginning obedience class on the 18th of March--$80 for 6 weeks. That's a bit more than $13 per class, but it's been my experience that with training, you get what you pay for--at least here's a beginning to check out.
> 
> Greater Kingsport Kennel Club
> Secretary Corresponding : Dottie Foulk
> ...


Ironically, that particular class is being taught by instructor I contacted this morning.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Recall Article One:

http://www.examiner.com/x-18986-San...09m8d26-Training-your-dog-to-come-when-called

Article Two -- for AFTER you've done the exercises outlined in article one:

http://www.examiner.com/x-18986-San...our-dog-to-come-when-called-final-installment


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## LauraBella (Feb 9, 2010)

Aha! THANK YOU!


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## LauraBella (Feb 9, 2010)

So, I emailed the contact for the Kingsport Club. She was nice enough to respond promptly. However, she stated that the lady I spoke to earlier (who is doing the event the club is involved with) was the only trainer she had used and she knew of no one else to recommend.



So, still looking....


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## LauraBella (Feb 9, 2010)

The search continues.... In the meantime, I think I'm going to read Ceasar's Way. I'm giving up fiction for Lent anyway.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

My dogs have all been rescues or strays and frequently older (even older than 5. They have all done well in obedience class and love the attention.

Good luck with your girl.


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## MyMaggieGirl (Nov 12, 2008)

Hi LauraBella. I am currently in obedience with my 5 year old girl, I just got her in October. She's great on some commands and completely ignores me on others LOL!! but we will keep working. I've learned a lot about her in these classes.

I opted for a small class, only 3 dogs total and while we get very individual attention from the trainer, there is very little socialization. But the positive reinforcement training is the only way to go. 

Good luck, I sure hope you find a trainer. Maybe call that one back and ask her to clarify some of her comments.


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## LauraBella (Feb 9, 2010)

I may ask her to do so. I def want to meet whomever in person before making a final decision anyway.

Hoping my vet will have some recs for me later this week.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I took my Jasmine through her CGC class last January when she was 8 years old. She was the star of the class because she is totally food motivated. She had only had a basic obedience class before that, when she was 2 1/2. I used the trainer our rescue uses for our "problem" dogs. Of course, I am not anti Petsmart trainer either. Both Jasmine and Jasper took their basic obedience classes there and I loved the fact that there were tons of distractions.


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## LauraBella (Feb 9, 2010)

Thank you all for all of your support, help, and encouragement. The hunt is still on! Have a feeling it may take a bit, too. But, I am sure I'll find the one! Will keep you posted. And, as ever, welcome your advice!!!

(Here's a snap of the princess from today.)


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## LauraBella (Feb 9, 2010)

Just spoke to my vet. I love my vet.

Apparently there have been some "issues" with several trainers in my area (and a couple of dog schools/boarding kennels were actually shut down).

So, partially for that reason, she has only two trainers, who she knows personally and by reputation, that would recommend. And she told me she felt "strongly" about that. One reason is that she said these two trainers had been "in the game" for a long time, and had, by this point, seen every behavior and wouldn't be caught by surprise. 

One is, indeed, the person that I spoke with yesterday morning. One is now working through our Petsmart. 

As to the lady I spoke with on Monday, Doc gave me a little insight. She is, apparently,by personality very no-nonsense and all-business. Vet did say that she was actually reward/positive based. Perhaps my paranoia coupled with her very, very brusk manner caused my fears when she mentioned the word punishment? (Which she DID throw out there!) My vet knows my dog, and me, and she said that she "perfectly understood if we didn't click." Apparently, my vet went through classes with her, and the trainer actually embarrassed my vet and made her feel bad, too. And she's a vet! So, it's not just me (feeling shamed by her, I mean). But, that said, it appears by all accounts that she's probably a very accomplished trainer, even if she and I didn't immediately click. And, apparently she works primarily with large dogs.

I checked with Petsmart (has the advantage of being way closer to my house, and the aforementioned bonus of distractions). They have several trainers, but my Vet said exactly one had "earned her merit badges," (she called the others "flavors of the week," by which she meant no real harm....but beginning trainers....). She'll be in tonight, so I am going to try to swing buy and meet her. I need a new shedding brush anyway, and Belles will, of course, choose a marrow-bone.

She's VERY food motivated. Which, I suppose, could work in my favor.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

LauraBella said:


> The search continues.... In the meantime, I think I'm going to read Ceasar's Way. I'm giving up fiction for Lent anyway.


Um.... that's going to be VERY different that what I outlined in the articles I sent you. Since you're doing research, why don't you research CM a bit and see if that training style is on par with what you want to do with your dog.

As alternatives - or in addition to - your CM reading, check out books by Patricia McConnell, Ian Dunbar and Pat Miller.


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## LauraBella (Feb 9, 2010)

I'm more than willing to check out variety...and opposing points of view. (As it happens, someone gave me a copy of the Ceasar book. But, I'm not a big non-fiction reader, so I've never read it. So, I thought I might....)

 Thanks for the recs. And, thanks again for the links.


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

I commend you for doing all this good research. You might want to start out at the PetSmart site and then later sign up for a class with the other person to further hone your skills and keep your golden sharp. Rest up princess--LauraBella is about to teach you some new tricks!


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## Muddypaws (Apr 20, 2009)

LauraBella said:


> I'm more than willing to check out variety...and opposing points of view. (As it happens, someone gave me a copy of the Ceasar book. But, I'm not a big non-fiction reader, so I've never read it. So, I thought I might....)
> 
> Thanks for the recs. And, thanks again for the links.


Caesar states quite firmly that he is NOT a dog trainer. By all means read his book full of good information and ideas to help you train, but you should also read actual training books too.


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## LauraBella (Feb 9, 2010)

Well, I spoke with the second trainer. (Weather's yucky, so I opted to make a call instead of dragging out.) I explained the situation and had a talk with her. I think I like her.

Bella and I are meeting her on Tuesday. 

I'm not making a final decision at this moment, but a rough possible plan than we've discussed is doing one or two private sessions and then moving to a group class.

rappwizard~ I kind of like your idea of starting in the Petsmart situation, then possibly doing another class after we get down the "basics."


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## LauraBella (Feb 9, 2010)

Okay...here we are, tomorrow is a big day for Bella! It's trainer meeting day! (She also has a "weigh-in" at the vet's, and we have to pick up her frontline and heartworm preventative). 

Any last minute advice for what to say to/ ask the trainer?

I'll let you know how it goes! Thanks for all your help!!!


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## LauraBella (Feb 9, 2010)

Well, we went. The trainer was very nice and very honest. She was also a little undecided as to whether Belles would do best in a private or group setting.

What I didn't really get into here (and probably should have, but it makes me sad) is that she is somewhat fearful of strangers. (She's been around people A LOT, though, though rarely around kids--and she's always been spoiled.) She tends to stick really close to me. 

Anywhoo, we and the trainer checked each other out. And we discussed those three things. The recall, the bashfulness, and the occassional barking.

The more I think about it, the less and less I am concerned about the barking. Definitely on the bottom of my list. She almost never barks before she hears another dog bark, or she's outside. And, then she almost exclusively barks at stray animals (deer!) and sirens. She's a dog; she is going to bark some. So, I'm not even going to worry about this until I've dealt with bigger issues.

So, recall and bashfulness. Things that really prevent her from experiencing life "off-leash."

She stubbed up big time tonight, ya'll! She typically likes to put me between her and whoever is new. She loved her jaunt around Petsmart. Loved checking out new dogs and the fish tanks. But, tonight she never did make friends with the trainer--who even tried to bribe her with cheese. She was a total snot. The trainer was patient; my dog was a snot.

She stuck to me so much that the trainer was surprised that I ever had an issue with recall. I explained it in one word, "BUNNIES."

But there was no even THINKING of showing a recall exercise with her GLUED to my heels.

She's always a bit of a snot, but she was WAYYYYY worse than usual today. I'm thinking that the fact she was at the vet's today did NOT help. Needles, you know.

Sooo.... She gave me a few exercises she wanted me to work on. Including some pointers and how not to reinforce--it appears that I have been REINFORCING her bashfulness my petting her when we're in public. And I thought I was being soothing.... Sigh. Plus, I'm bringing Belles in to "visit" her occasionally. And, we are revisiting the class question in a few weeks.

Sigh....
I feel like the world's worst dog owner.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

You're doing GREAT! Don't be upset that things didn't go exactly as you planned today, because someday they will!! This trainer sounds like she knows her stuff and will get you both on the path to success!


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## LauraBella (Feb 9, 2010)

I ordered some book (forget the title just now) about "shy" dogs. Shrug. Hopefully it can't hurt?

Thanks SOOOO MUCH for the encouragement!!!!


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## Muddypaws (Apr 20, 2009)

Do not beat yourself up because your were inadvertently reinforcing a behavior. I did the same thing with my sheltie, I didn't know I was doing it at the time and my trainer never picked it up. We are trying to comfort them and there is noting wrong with your intentions. Now you know what to do so you will do it. Bella will get it and faster then you may think. 

Your doing everything right and your trainer sounds knowledgeable and will be of help. Your a "great" Momma because you care and your trying to make things better for your dog. 

BTW - she is not being a snot just a shy insecure dog that needs her Mom. You'll both learn to get over it and one day you will wake up and find this "too friendly" pup and wonder what happened.  Keep up the good work, your doing well.


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## LauraBella (Feb 9, 2010)

Thank you!


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## Golden River of Dreams (Feb 25, 2010)

*Classes/ Teaching recall*

I recommend watching a class to see for yourself what type of training is used. Pay attention to the atmosphere and see if the people seem relaxed and the dogs have wagging tails. See if any methods used make you uncomfortable and steer clear of those trainers. Also check with shelters in the area, they may offer classes or know of trainers in the area. 

Suggestions for teaching recall: use a high value treat (something your dog really wants! Tasty treat, squeaky toy, etc.) 
Run backwards or away from your dog. You can show him the treat before running away or squeak the toy as you run away.

Practice recall inside first. Call your dog to come get his breakfast/dinner.
Play hide and go seek (run and hide, disappear and encourage your dog to come find you) If possible have some one hold your dogs collar tease him with a toy or food bowl and take off to hide and then the other person can let go of his collar for him/her to come search for you.

Most importantly make coming to you the best thing ever! Work up to distractions. Never scold for your dog coming back, even if it takes him ten minutes to come to you although if that is happening then you probably need to try something different.

Hope this is at least somewhat helpful.


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