# Too skinny? Underweight? Malnourished?



## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

Red is getting his thyroid test done tomorrow to find out what is going on with his hair thinning....

But people have commented how skinny, underweight, etc he is. They may add "I noticed he was so skinny... But I thought maybe you meant to keep him that way"

I don't think he looks skinny or underweight? He is a very lean and athletic dog, unlike Rem who is broad and very substantial. But every time someone sees him they comment...

The vet said he was lean, but not underweight., but it makes me wonder and feel terrible when people make it seem like we are keeping him skinny, like we are being bad parents. We got Red at 56lbs and he is now 60lbs.

Btw, he eats 2 heaping cups a day, I'd say it comes out to about 2.5 cups a day of Purina proplan


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## Kally76 (Jun 14, 2010)

He looks good and healthy to me. You have to remember we are in the south. Everything looks better to us with "A lot of meat on their bones." lol.

Keep us posted about the thyroid results.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

I go by feel instead of looks. You should be able to easily feel his ribs but they shouldn't be protruding. He does look okay to me. I'd rather have lean then over weight. 

Ella is the opposite. The way her fur is it makes her look a bit heavy, but you can easily feel her ribs bc she looks right when she is soaking wet. The vet said that she is the perfect weight. 

Good luck with the thyroid test. Hopefully you'll be able to get some answers soon. If it isn't thyroid, has he been tested for allergies?


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

How old is he? I think he looks lean but maybe could use some more muscle on his hindquarters etc. What kind of exercise is he getting on a daily basis? Really running or swimming etc.? If the vet says fine, then I wouldn't worry about his weight especially since he's getting good quality food. My vet also says better a little too lean than a little too heavy.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

And yet again I tried to post and was told I did not have permission. This has happened twice today...


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

tine434 said:


> And yet again I tried to post and was told I did not have permission. This has happened twice today...


That kept happening to me last week and was driving me nuts.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

2 years old.
His composition HAS changed!! Just a couple months ago he was lean and muscular now he's lean and soft.

He runs and plays an hour or so a day at least, the heat prevents all day play. Swimming not so much as our beaches have been closed a lot this summer.

I mentioned to vet about him losing muscle but vet didn't seem to acknowledge it.

Only other changes that have been made since hair thinning and muscle changing is the food. Went from 4health to PPP sensitive skin and stomach. So if thyroid comes out OK I may consider if he is allergic to the food?

Oh, and his neuter. Could that have changed his body composition?


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

Sorry... that was my 4th attempt at posting!


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

He looks fine to me. Maybe his food needs to be increased if his activity has increased.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

He looks good to me. I think our vet is right, lean but not too thin.


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

Hunter (avatar) was 78 pounds and very lean. He was tall, long and had tree trunks for legs and large head. We called him "the long lean playing machine" because he loved to run and play and it often took him a couple of hours ot finish a meal as he would eat a little, then go play, come back and eat a mouthful, go play. and that was bad as we had 3 others that wanted his food. His fur was thick and silky and muscles great.

Thyroid is funny. Scooter, at age about 4, started to get thinning fur, put on weight, slept a lot and took a dislike to the two boys net door. We thought they had been tormenting him. But it turns outhe was low thyroid and after being on meds a short time (and diet dog food), he lost the extra baggage, got more energy, fur got thick and soft again, and once again he liked the kids next door.

Jump ahead a number of years and Scooter's full brother, later litter, was having a dental at about age 10. I always have blood work done before any kindof procedure. Will it came back his thyroid was so low that had the test not been done he might night have woke up after the dental. The dental was actually put off until we got his thyroid level normal. Buck did not have a single symptom of l low thyroid. He trotted instead of walking everywhere except on leash. Fur stayed thick and soft, not extra sleeping, no change in likes or dislikes. No hint of thyroid and his dosage was 1 1/2 times the amount of soloxine as Scooter had been on.

I was diagnosed with low thyroid a little over 6 years ago and my med has been increased 3 times. Then hubby was diagnosed 1 1/2 years ago.

Good luck with your Red.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

He's lean and you could maybe add two or three pounds on him. (He's pretty ****** close to where he should be.) A pound or two difference in weight can make a huge difference in coat quality. 

Neutering will cause changes, as will changing the food as you have done.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

If he is skinny/lean and losing weight - I would not think that he is hypothyroid. 

I agree food changes and neutering - going through the hormonal change - can cause the bad hair coat. 

You could try adding a raw egg to his diet daily - that helped with my pup when he blew his coat this summer.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

cgriffin said:


> If he is skinny/lean and losing weight - I would not think that he is hypothyroid.
> 
> I agree food changes and neutering - going through the hormonal change - can cause the bad hair coat.
> 
> You could try adding a raw egg to his diet daily - that helped with my pup when he blew his coat this summer.


Some people I hear do this and add the shell... did u do the shell also?


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

No, I don't add the shells. I still give my pup a raw egg daily 4-5 days a week - his coat is great now.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

Did it not post about his water intake...?

I had said... he also drinks a TON. Like probably a half gallon at a time sometimes... to the point when he goes outside he will pee a straight stream for minutes at a time, several times in a row.


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## rooroch (Nov 7, 2012)

Mine love the shells. They also find duck eggs near our lake and always eat the whole thing, shells and all. He does look a bit lean to me but then Grit is very heavily built so a totally different type. He was 88 lbs at 11 months and is still 88 lbs at 2 1/2 years old and the vet says he is just right for his build. Neutering does make a difference to the coat and he may even put weight on in a few months due to hormonal changes. One lab I had did not change after spay and was the same until her death at 17 and another got fat with reduced food and her coat was dull and shedding the whole time. She lived for 14 years.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

This is not a normal neuter coat change. It's literally falling out and thinning.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I missed the part about the drinking. How old is he? 

If you have not done so already, I would do a full blood panel on him, including the thyroid test to be sure. The blood panel will also give you info on his liver values, glucose level, etc. = want to make sure he is not diabetic and some of the things you mentioned also match symptoms of Cushing's Disease.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

cgriffin said:


> I missed the part about the drinking. How old is he?
> 
> If you have not done so already, I would do a full blood panel on him, including the thyroid test to be sure. The blood panel will also give you info on his liver values, glucose level, etc. = want to make sure he is not diabetic and some of the things you mentioned also match symptoms of Cushing's Disease.


He is only 2 years.
That's what had the vet a bit stumped.
They did a.... T4 I think? Is that a full panel? They just did it this morning.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

Looks similar to my Lily who is about 53 lbs. I can easily feel ribs but can't see them.


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## xooxlinds (Aug 23, 2014)

I agree with the CBC / full blood panel BW being done. The vet I work at requires b/w on all pets over 6 years of age undergoing any type of anesthetic procedure. I personally think yearly b/w done when pups reach 5 is a great idea. These days we can never be too sure with environments and chemicals in the air, the additives in human and dog food, etc! Best of luck with thyroid level testing!


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

xooxlinds said:


> I agree with the CBC / full blood panel BW being done. The vet I work at requires b/w on all pets over 6 years of age undergoing any type of anesthetic procedure. I personally think yearly b/w done when pups reach 5 is a great idea. These days we can never be too sure with environments and chemicals in the air, the additives in human and dog food, etc! Best of luck with thyroid level testing!


Well he is only 2 years....

I think the vet said it was a T4, is that a full blood work or not?


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

No, just doing a T4 is not the entire blood panel. Did they do the T4 and sent it out to a lab? I suppose if they did it in house - you would have had the results by now. 

Him being only 2 is a complication for sure. But if the vet is stumped, I would have thought he would do the entire panel plus the T4 just to get a good picture of your boy. Often, doing all at once is cheaper as well. But, can't cry over spilled milk. 

If they did draw a purple and a red tube of blood - if there was blood left over, it could still be send. But, just for the T4 - I am doubtful that they drew the purple tube of blood for CBC. 

Anyway, can't hurt to check with the vet.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

The vet seemed to think I'd this came back OK then it could likely be allergies or just the fact that Red came from north Georgia and this has been his first summer down here in south Georgia heat.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I guess if I were you, I would just wait then and see what the thyroid test says. 

Is there such a big difference between North and South Georgia in heat and humidity? 

We were stationed on Fort Benning, Georgia in the early to mid 80s and it was plenty hot and humid there. We got our first golden there as well.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

cgriffin said:


> Is there such a big difference between North and South Georgia in heat and humidity?
> .


Exactly... And he was an outdoor dog up there so I'd think it would be easier on him here with us.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

Yes, I agree. Well, just wait for the test results and take it from there. If not hypothyroid - I would run a full blood panel. It would also give you a good baseline for the future as he gets older.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

Wish waiting was easier..


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

If your vet is like mine, if sent out today - the results should be back tomorrow, day after at the very latest. But for thyroid - I would think tomorrow. 

I would still give the raw egg a try though - should help his hair coat recover somewhat regardless.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

That brings me to my pup though. I picked him up in Erie, PA at 8 weeks old. Of course, lots of puppy fluff. 
Once we started heating up here in Tennessee, he started to totally blow his coat and he looked so short haired and naked to me - even though the feathering remained. Looking at photos of his siblings up North, they still had the luscious winter coat, thick and fluffy. Talking to my breeder, she pointed out the temp difference and told me to add egg to Ben's diet. And it did work and he grew a gorgeous thick coat now but it is still not as thick as his Northern living siblings. So, that all has to do with temperature differences. But in your case, from North to South Georgia should not be that extreme unless he is shedding more because he is in air conditioning now. But, you had him for a while, right? 

Anyway, also the neutering will do a number on his coat, because of the hormones changing. But the excessive drinking if he is an indoor dog is more worrisome because he was an outside dog and it does not get that much cooler in Northern Georgia.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

Difference in size of our 2 boys. Both active, both get fed well. Different body types completely. Rem is wide boned lol


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

This is another new thing... his face is getting droopy...


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

Yeah, it should not be that way. I think pending the results, more tests are in order to get to the bottom of it. He does look very skinny in those photos.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

He actually feels a lot better than when he came to us 3 or 4 months ago if only considering the ability to feel bones. Back then we could feel his hip bones and easily feel his ribs. Now you have to kind of push to feel his ribs and no hips to be felt. 
The thing now is his hair thickness on his back and ribs is literally like a lab. You can easily see skin. Although the vet said his undercoat was healthy... Guess he doesn't have a thick one of those then. .

but he's still lost 2lbs from his max weight, although he FEELS softer. That's without calorie changes. On top of his food he gets chicken for treats (boiled), steak probably weekly for treats, etc, coconut oil weekly, peanut butter in kongs, etc. So other additional calories. Same as always


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

P.S. someone suggested a while back that I go raw, especially with owning a large breed (and a golden) the individual at hand owns several dogs varying from small to giant breeds and has fed raw for several years. They suggested it when Red was having Hotspot issues so bad (5 of them) that was before the rest began happening...


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

We should get the results today.... I fed him and egg last night, he loved it! He was so delicate with it, I wanted to give him the egg and shell just to see how delicate he'd be! Haha.
I will continue with the raw egg. Do you give one daily? I considered giving them all one as we keep lots of eggs around anyway. But my little girl is only 20lbs she would or ably get less


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Red*

I think Red is beautiful!


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I give a raw egg 4-5 times a week. My dachshund gets one as well. There is no worry about the size of the egg - little ones enjoy an entire egg just the same. 

I hope you get some answers today.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

Partial results have came back, waiting on full still.... So far they look good she said. But said vet would call when full came in.


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

If you've only had him for 3-4 months, had him neutered, and changed his food, it's not too surprising that he's going through some changes. But I think you're wise to get the bloodwork, etc. done to be sure there's nothing serious happening. The best way to gauge your dog's body fitness is a frequent hands-on exam. I like to use the attached body composition chart that most vets use. I try to put my hands all over my two dogs frequently. Their body types are very different also, like yours. I do find that many people in this country think that fit, lean dogs look starved. :uhoh: Pays to ignore them, and listen to your hands and your vet! LOL.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

OutWest said:


> If you've only had him for 3-4 months, had him neutered, and changed his food, it's not too surprising that he's going through some changes. But I think you're wise to get the bloodwork, etc. done to be sure there's nothing serious happening. The best way to gauge your dog's body fitness is a frequent hands-on exam. I like to use the attached body composition chart that most vets use. I try to put my hands all over my two dogs frequently. Their body types are very different also, like yours. I do find that many people in this country think that fit, lean dogs look starved. :uhoh: Pays to ignore them, and listen to your hands and your vet! LOL.


Well the rescue neuter a immediately... as far as the food change he had 5 hot spots back to back so we tried the food change and no more sense then.


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

tine434 said:


> Well the rescue neuter a immediately... as far as the food change he had 5 hot spots back to back so we tried the food change and no more sense then.


Hope you didn't think my comments were critical... not meant that way at all. Just saying that all that change--especially moving to a new home--might be the root of some of it. Sometimes rescues take up to a year to really settle into new surroundings. 

Glad you care so much about him. He's gorgeous and looks like a sweetheart.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

OutWest said:


> Hope you didn't think my comments were critical... not meant that way at all. Just saying that all that change--especially moving to a new home--might be the root of some of it. Sometimes rescues take up to a year to really settle into new surroundings.
> 
> Glad you care so much about him. He's gorgeous and looks like a sweetheart.


Oh no, no..... my response was short and may have seemed frustrated but it was because I was heading out of the door to church. 

I guess I meant to convey that I feel a little.... At a loss as I am now facing, do I keep on keeping on and trust the process or change again?


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

tine434 said:


> Oh no, no..... my response was short and may have seemed frustrated but it was because I was heading out of the door to church.
> 
> I guess I meant to convey that I feel a little.... At a loss as I am now facing, do I keep on keeping on and trust the process or change again?


Personally I wouldn't change anything until the vet gives you test result. PPSSS is a good food.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

OutWest said:


> Personally I wouldn't change anything until the vet gives you test result. PPSSS is a good food.


Oh yeah I mean, I wouldn't. But they said the partial results looked ok. Of course I've yet to hear from the actual vet. Hopefully they'll have full results and he'll call this morning.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

OutWest said:


> If you've only had him for 3-4 months, had him neutered, and changed his food, it's not too surprising that he's going through some changes. But I think you're wise to get the bloodwork, etc. done to be sure there's nothing serious happening. The best way to gauge your dog's body fitness is a frequent hands-on exam. I like to use the attached body composition chart that most vets use. I try to put my hands all over my two dogs frequently. Their body types are very different also, like yours. I do find that many people in this country think that fit, lean dogs look starved. :uhoh: Pays to ignore them, and listen to your hands and your vet! LOL.


See... by feeling and comparing to this chart. he feels fine. Except his back legs to me feel different than the rest of his body, so when you get there it is like hmm.... that's odd.

It's weird cause its like I am rubbing on something other than a golden though cause it is hairless. Especially his back legs, I'm waiting to see skin any day....


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

Results are normal....

Haven't been able to speak to the vet yet as I missed his call. He should call me back about it and where to go from here.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

I will say that that last photo you posted made me think of my Ellie, she just doesn't have a lot of coat. I suspect people will be curious about what the numbers are and if they were on the lower end for normal. YOu may want to post them. My thought is that if you feel something is not quite right, I would try for a second opinion somewhere, trust your gut - you know how much he's eating and how much he's exercising, you're the mom


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

Well, the thing is he had a lot of coat when he came to us. It was definitely not taken care of but there was a lot of it. It isn't that he's always just had a thin coat or I wouldn't worry...

Also, I do plan on asking the vet what the numbers are once he calls me back.... I want to know them as well.

Yes it's the changes in him that let me know something isn't right. Just figuring out what it is....


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

After his first good grooming and brushing from us when we got him


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

tine434 said:


> Well, the thing is he had a lot of coat when he came to us. It was definitely not taken care of but there was a lot of it. It isn't that he's always just had a thin coat or I wouldn't worry...
> 
> Also, I do plan on asking the vet what the numbers are once he calls me back.... I want to know them as well.
> 
> Yes it's the changes in him that let me know something isn't right. Just figuring out what it is....


If everything shows as "normal", perhaps your next consult should be with a veterinary dermatologist. Pricey, but the right one can help a lot.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

One thing that I have seen happen really often with rescue dogs, if they were not well cared for before and were eating a poor diet, a lot of them have a complete coat change 6-8 months or up to a year after being rescued and getting better care and nutrition.

For instance Tagg, he had a lot of really thick coat when we got him. We DID NOT shave him, he blew his coat completely and it looked like the second picture. After his adoption (wish I had a current pic), he grew a healthy, full coat.

That really is the same dog.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

Oh I hope that's what is going on with Red!!!!!


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

1.7 overall T4 and normal for this test is .8-3.5

.12 DSH or FSH or TSH...? Ugh, can't remember my husband was taking it down while I talked.

And then 12 for something else.... Kevin didn't write down what the 12 number was

He said that overall Red is healthy. He said sometimes he does treat normal thyroid but he said he isn't seeing other symptoms in Red so he doesn't want to implement medicine without any other symptoms.

He said he wants me to monitor and if I do not see improvement or if I see anything else get worse bring him back. He said it will be cooling off and Red will be getting a winter coat soon within a few months so see how he does then. Also if his drinking reduces as it cools off.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

Bumping up to see if anyone knows anything about those numbers


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

Ella's T4 was 1.9 and I was Todd by the vet and others on here that it was normal. Don't have any other info though. Did they do a full blood panel to rule out other things our just thyroid?

The only experience I've had with a pet with the loss of drinking like that was when my 19 year cat had renal failure, but nothing else with Red seems to fit that and he's still very young. Could he have just a kidney infection?


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

Well he did a urine test and it was ok.

He didn't want to do a full blood panel as he said Red was overall healthy and young and the other things it "could" be he showed no additional symptoms for so he told me what to keep an eye out for and asked I just wait it out a couple months to see if he improves with the weather and time in our home, etc


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

Is his energy level and behavior normal? Appetite?


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

ktkins7 said:


> Is his energy level and behavior normal? Appetite?


Yes yes and yes.... Just mainly his appearance and drinking. He plays and he's fun and loving and happy (except the vet scared him a little lol).


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

with those test results I think your vet is right. Give him another 6 months, barring any other issues, and I bet he will be a different dog.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

Well.... I've also noticed Red has this smell... he's had it the whole time but Rem doesn't get it. Immediately after a bath he's OK but within the same day he always has this..... Sour sort of smell? I wonder if there is any connection. Sometimes I can't stand to pet him it is so bad and the whole house can begin to smell some (I'm a clean freak so I have a sensitive nose also)


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Do you think he could be having allergy issues? Duke has just gotten his second hot spot and I think it's allergy related. I'm surprised your vet didn't want to do a full blood panel. It would at least give you a baseline to measure back against. My vet actually suggested it when I adopted Charlie since we had no other history other than his rescue intake test results. I would have a hard time waiting and seeing, but I also tend to worry 

Both your boys are beautiful...


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

Well we have reds records and history even his akc paperwork... idk....

The vet didn't think allergies because he said Red isn't scratching a lot and the skin seems healthy.

I really wonder what's up though... He really stinks =/ I mean he eats salmon flavored food but so do the other two lol


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