# Orijen Puppy - Super Hyper and poops smell



## weehonglee (Jul 1, 2009)

My puppy is about 10 weeks old, currently he is on Eukanuba Large Puppy food. I wanted to change his food to a better quality food and had choose Orijen Puppy for him. However, it seems the food does not really suit him, i mixed about 1/4 Orijen and 3/4 Eukanuba. (I tried about 2 weeks) Everytime after meal his poops will become dark choc brown, smelly and sometimes "too soft". He also become much more hyper when he is on Orijen, is this due to the high protein?

Now I stop his Orijen taking and his poops is back to brown and firm. He does not seem to be much hyper comparing when he is with Orijen

I read alot about the Chicken By-Product ingredient in Eukanuba might not be good for him. Do you guys think that i should try changing his food to others? Like Accana, which has much lower protein? 

PS: His name is Pinto.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

You may have to either slow down the switch a lot, like doing 1 part new food ten parts old and so on, to gradually get him used to the new one. Or, add in some plain canned pumpkin for the extra fiber and then after he's used to the new food, cut the pumpkin down slowly. Digestive enzymes would be a good idea as well as probiotics (plain yogurt with active cultures in it, about a tablespoon or two per meal). 

Or, try Acana (most stores will have sample packages, so you can see how he does with the 1/4 -3/4 ratio) and see how he is on that one. It may suit his system a bit better.

All I can think of with the hyper factor is he's getting less by products and corn and feels better. Much like if we eat fast food for a week while being on the road vs. eating real food at home (no offence to those out there who consider fast food to be 'real' food..). Same with the stools, he's eating a lot of fillers etc. and orijin doesn't have those. And keep in mind he's likely to need less of the new food per day than the old stuff too (I would go with half of what he's getting now for the new food, then increase slowly once he's on it, or go to more frequent feeding for a while).

Lana


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

I'm in complete agreement with the above post.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

I feed Acana and my dogs have done wonderfully on it. You can try that its a lot less rich. They always say if ain't broke don't fix it.


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## weehonglee (Jul 1, 2009)

Thanks a lot for the reply... I will try on him later on.

However, after switching back to full Eukanuba for about a week plus, he did finish all the food for three meal. But since yesterday, he only finish the 2nd meal, his 1st and 3rd meal is only like 3/4 gone. Then this morning it became worst, he only eat like few kibbles. His poops and behavior is like the same. Any suggestion?

PS: In case you guys is wondering, I'm from Malaysia.


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## weehonglee (Jul 1, 2009)

Updates: I just called home and he finish the food. Not too sure what's his problem.


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## weehonglee (Jul 1, 2009)

I tried to find canned pumpkin in my area, but i cant seem to find any, any substitute for it?

I can just get those normal plain yogurt for him?


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

I too had Flora on Euk large breed puppy when she was very young, and tried (unsuccessfully) to switch her over to Solid Gold Wolfcub. For MONTHS she had nasty poops that were runny and stinky, and I finally started switching her over to Blue Buffalo. She's now on about half and half with the SG and Blue Buff, and her poops are so much better! However, in retrospect, I wish I had just stuck with Eukanuba. As Ash said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.


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## weehonglee (Jul 1, 2009)

I'm thinking of sticking to Eukanuba, but am really concern about the by-products and corn ingredients. Do you think it is okay for my boy to take that? Any comments from the experienced owner?


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I've been feeding Eukanuba for years, and I think all this hype about "by-products" and the anti-grain bias on the internet aren't actually grounded in solid science.

Eukanuba is a great food, and if your guy is doing well on it, why switch him to something that fits internet pseudo-science better but doesn't actually work for the real-life dog?


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

I'd forgo the pumpkin and just keep him on a lower protein food than that Orijen -many dogs do fine on foods such as Euk or, if you'd rather a food free of byproducts, etc, there are other options such as Naturapet and WellPet products to name a few (not sure what's available where you are).


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## weehonglee (Jul 1, 2009)

It seems that Euk is doing a good job on my boy, I guess I will stick with it. There are not many brands available here, only brand like Acana, Orijen, Euk, Innova, Proplan and those "normal" brand. I quite like Fromm products, but unfortunately I can't find that here. 

Thank you guys for all your feedback!


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

If it makes you feel any better, my Carmella ate Iams for the first 9 years of her life, and she lived to be almost 15 years old. I really think food is food (although I admit, I am a sucker and have been convinced to feed Flora a "higher quality" food, even though Eukanuba worked perfectly well with her.)


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## weehonglee (Jul 1, 2009)

haha... i'm a sucker as well, that's y i went to try orijen. i believe every owner want the best for their GR.


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

The Orijen may just not work well for your dog, but there are other meat-based formulas (some with and some without grain) that might work very well. The Acana formulas are meat-based foods with a mored moderate protein level that may work better for your dog. The original poster mentions that he has access to them. Acana is made by the same company as Orijen.

I personally would not choose to feed Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy; because once the moisture is removed from the chicken (#1 ingredient listed), corn meal is the primary ingredient by weight. While there is nothing wrong with corn in dog food if your dog isn't allergic to it, it does not have the protein digestibility (the amount of protein absorbed into the body relative to the amount that was consumed) or as many different amino acids (building blocks of protein) as meat does. 

I believe that over a dog's lifetime that eating primarily meat-based food helps keep the immune system strong and actually allows you to feed less compared to non-meat based foods.


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## weehonglee (Jul 1, 2009)

I see... I will try to source for other meat base food for my boy. I'm still trying to confirm if there is Acana puppy available here, i can confirm that there is no Acana puppy large, and they confirm have Acana puppy small. Which i think the Acana puppy small won't suit GR right?


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Eukanuba is well tested by time and results and is a high-quality food. I personally wouldn't touch Orijen...I think its based on a fad. 

Food choices are basically very personal choices ...I think its great we have choices so we can feed what makes us feel comfortable and what we think is best.


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## weehonglee (Jul 1, 2009)

I think there is no best food around, is just that which food you feel more comfortable. I believe is up to each individual.  I will keep you guys updated on my choices... 

Anybody can enlighten me if I can feed my boy Acana puppy small?


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## fameb (Feb 10, 2009)

weehonglee said:


> I think there is no best food around, is just that which food you feel more comfortable. I believe is up to each individual.  I will keep you guys updated on my choices...
> 
> Anybody can enlighten me if I can feed my boy Acana puppy small?


Most of Acana is all life stages. I tried Acana Pacifica and then Acana Prairie Harvest with my pup when he was a bit younger. He did fine on it.


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

weehonglee said:


> I think there is no best food around, is just that which food you feel more comfortable. I believe is up to each individual.  I will keep you guys updated on my choices...
> 
> *Anybody can enlighten me if I can feed my boy Acana puppy small?*


Whatever you decide to feed, you want the Large Breed Puppy formula (or even regular puppy, but no small breed formulas) of whatever brand that is.


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## weehonglee (Jul 1, 2009)

Thanks. Will take note of that.


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## teddy128 (Jan 11, 2010)

I think you should just feed him what he likes best!


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## WLR (May 11, 2008)

tippykayak said:


> and I think all this hype about "by-products" and the anti-grain bias on the internet aren't actually grounded in solid science.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
If Dudley, my pit/terrier mix ate anything with corn gluten, like ProPlan, he would have a 1 to 2 minute seizure within 18 hours.......case in point; he had been seizure free for several months and I gave him half of a Nathan's hotdog. Next morning, seizure. 
Later found out Nathan's contains wheat & corn gluten. 
That was solid enough for me.

.


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## Traz (Jan 19, 2009)

I don't believe feeding better quality food is a fad or based on internet pseudo -science.
Dogs depend on what is in their food for nutrition. I believe corn may be bad for some dogs. Even if it isn't "bad" for my dog, I don't believe it is "good" for my dog. Since the dogs depend on what we give them for nutrition, I don't want my dogs food to be filled with corn. We as people don't digest corn well, what if it was the major ingredient or second most prominent ingredient in our food. We would likely suffer poor nutrition. 
In dogs it is worse yet. Dogs have less ability to digest corn than even people do. Since a big part of the corn is where the nutrition comes from , it makes sense if dogs don't digest it well they lose a good portion of the nutrition. I prefer most of my dogs nutrition comes from ingrdients like meat or foods they can digest well.
Why do you think so many of lower quality foods have corn. Not because it is good, but rather because it is cheap. Iams & Eukanuba are not the same quality food they once were. The ingredients changed after they were sold out to Procter & Gamble. 
I also do not believe in feeding my dog a food because he "likes" it. My dogs I am sure would love fried chicken or cheeseburgers,icecream or anything for that matter. 

I transitioned my puppy from Proplan when we got him over about a week to Fromm. For about a month he had loose stools. After that, everything has been great. Food transitions can be hard for some dogs & others you seem to be able to feed most anything to. Some dogs do have trouble with the high protein in some foods. Maybe the one you are transitioning too is a bit high. Do they may make other "flavors" with a middle range protein. (about 23-25) I hear good things about Acana also, but have no experience with it myself. I think Orijen is made by the same company. I considered it when I was researching foods.
Personally there are a lot of other choices I would try before Iams or Eukanuba, but that is only my opinion. My 1st dog was on Iams & ate it just fine, but I can't say it was good for her. She had all kinds of health problems including seizures, blindness & cancer. Was it from the Iams, don't know, but not willing to try it again. (Iams & Eukanuba are made by same company & both are manufactured by Menu) Menu was one of the biggest companies with recalls because of using low quality ingredients from China with the poisons in it) Personally I won't buy any food made by Menu or Diamond either one.
Good luck, food is hard & it sounds as though you do have some limitations based on location also. Sounds like you are doing some good research.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

WLR said:


> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> If Dudley, my pit/terrier mix ate anything with corn gluten, like ProPlan, he would have a 1 to 2 minute seizure within 18 hours.......case in point; he had been seizure free for several months and I gave him half of a Nathan's hotdog. Next morning, seizure.
> Later found out Nathan's contains wheat & corn gluten.
> That was solid enough for me.
> ...


That is interesting. Is Dudley allergic to grain? I'm sorry your guy has to deal with that....


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

WLR said:


> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> If Dudley, my pit/terrier mix ate anything with corn gluten, like ProPlan, he would have a 1 to 2 minute seizure within 18 hours.......case in point; he had been seizure free for several months and I gave him half of a Nathan's hotdog. Next morning, seizure.
> Later found out Nathan's contains wheat & corn gluten.
> That was solid enough for me.
> ...


There are dozens (maybe more?) ingredients in a cheap commercial hot dog.

Also, in epileptic humans, there may be a connection between gluten and seizures. That doesn't make it a bad ingredient for the rest of us.

PS - Sorry to hear your pup got sick like that.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Traz said:


> I don't believe feeding better quality food is a fad or based on internet pseudo -science.


I think the whole premise that a food is "better" based on nonscientific assumptions about ingredients is the problem. Feeding a dog better food is great, but some of the things that dog food companies do to claim their foods are "better" simply make them more expensive without improving their nutritive value.

Some things that are classified as "byproducts," for example, are great for dogs. Chicken organs, bone, and meat, all ground together, is "chicken byproduct meal," according to the FDA, and in the right proportion, it can be a great ingredient. So a food that says "no byproducts" isn't necessarily an improvement.



Traz said:


> Dogs depend on what is in their food for nutrition. I believe corn may be bad for some dogs. Even if it isn't "bad" for my dog, I don't believe it is "good" for my dog. Since the dogs depend on what we give them for nutrition, I don't want my dogs food to be filled with corn. We as people don't digest corn well, what if it was the major ingredient or second most prominent ingredient in our food. We would likely suffer poor nutrition.


Corn is a grain like any other. Because it's subsidized by the US government, it has become cheaper than most other grains. That's why you find it in so many people foods and dog foods. However, cheaper does not mean inferior. "Brown rice" sounds healthier than "corn" to us, but have you ever sat down and actually read unbiased nutritional information on the two? They're not that different.




Traz said:


> I prefer most of my dogs nutrition comes from ingrdients like meat or foods they can digest well.


I prefer my dogs to have a wide range of foods to draw nutrients from. A dog would not thrive eating _only_ chicken breast meat, even though it's a wonderful food source. By the same token, too much corn is surely a bad thing, but in moderation, why can't it provide carbohydrate energy and important nutrients?



Traz said:


> (Iams & Eukanuba are made by same company & both are manufactured by Menu) Menu was one of the biggest companies with recalls because of using low quality ingredients from China with the poisons in it) Personally I won't buy any food made by Menu or Diamond either one.


Iams and Eukanuba dry kibble is not manufactured by Menu nor made from Chinese ingredients. Some wet foods were made by Menu until 2007, though after those big recalls, they may have severed even that relationship.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Menu foods manufactured Holistic wet foods...including Natura Products . It was a source for holistic and commercial companies to manufacture their wet foods.


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## The_Artful_Dodger (Mar 26, 2009)

tippykayak said:


> I think the whole premise that a food is "better" based on nonscientific assumptions about ingredients is the problem. Feeding a dog better food is great, but some of the things that dog food companies do to claim their foods are "better" simply make them more expensive without improving their nutritive value.
> 
> Some things that are classified as "byproducts," for example, are great for dogs. Chicken organs, bone, and meat, all ground together, is "chicken byproduct meal," according to the FDA, and in the right proportion, it can be a great ingredient. So a food that says "no byproducts" isn't necessarily an improvement.


I agree with this. I personally would not trust feeding my dog a food because the manufacturer says "look how great our ingredient list looks". I want to feed a food that I am confident has been clinically proven to provide good nutrition and has a long track record. 

Byproducts can vary in thier quality. The same is true for any ingredient on the list. But seeing "by-product" does not mean the food is bad. Organ meats can be very nutritious. I was skimming through my friend's veterinary nutrition book (not produced by any dog-food manufacturers) and it said that chicken by-product meal is a slightly more concentrated protein source, while chicken meal is mostly rendered chicken necks and backs, which has a higher ash content. 

It also says that corn is superior to other grains because it contains nutrients not found in other grains (i.e., complex carbohydrates, linoleic acid, amino acids). Someone asked what would happen if our (humans) diets had a substantial amount of corn - I would think there would be less of a problem with obesity. 

Also, people love to point out that when a food says, for example Chicken (not meal), that when the water is removed it would be much further down on the ingredient list. This is also true in reverse, that if chicken-meal is the second or third ingredient, than prior to any processing of ingredients, it likely contains more chicken-meal than anything else. I know I dont prepare my portion sizes by thinking about how much they would weigh dehydrated. 

I also wonder that if you feed a food with a higher percentage of meat, but because of the higher calories, you feed much less of it, is the dog actually getting more meat?

Source: Pocket Companion to Small Animal Clinical Nutrition: Fourth Edition
(I just saw that the book does says Hills on the back - so it is somewhat affiliated with a dog food company LOL)


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

All poop smells. Just an FYI.


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

I'm sorry to hear you can't get Fromm where you live. I am in the process of switching to it from Natural Balance (due to increase of potato in their formulas) and so far the Pack is responding better than I could have thought. Due to two of the Pack having substantiated allergies to corn I've been feeding corn free for years and the quality of Fromm is apparent. Keep bugging your store to start carrying Fromm!!!


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## crackerjax (Jan 7, 2008)

I am in the transition mode(1/2 & 1/2 from Pro plan select) of switching Hank (9 weeks old) to Wellness Super 5 mix for puppies. It is supposed to be the best out there, but there is a price tag to go with it. I am willing to pay the extra to give him the best.


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

sharlin said:


> I'm sorry to hear you can't get Fromm where you live. I am in the process of switching to it from Natural Balance (due to increase of potato in their formulas) and so far the Pack is responding better than I could have thought. Due to two of the Pack having substantiated allergies to corn I've been feeding corn free for years and the quality of Fromm is apparent. Keep bugging your store to start carrying Fromm!!!


Pack must think Dad's duck hunting skills have improved !


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

tippykayak said:


> Iams and Eukanuba dry kibble is not manufactured by Menu nor made from Chinese ingredients ...


What is the country of origin re vitamins & minerals used in their formulas ?


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

It took me a looong time to switch Ranger's food over to Orijen. He was 9 months and I had to do a gradual switch that took more than 2 months. For the last two weeks, he was getting mostly orijen with a sprinkle of his old food on top. Without the little bit of old food, he'd get loose poops. 

It might take longer to switch to Orijen, but I found it was worth it, at least with my dog. His energy level did increase but it was good energy. He was able to do longer obedience sessions, go for longer walks, and not mentally shut down after 20 mins like he would before. Now he's used to the food, his energy level has stabilized and his coat is incredibly glossy. 

I'm not saying you should feed Orijen to your dog; you need to find something that works - I'm just saying it took me a long time to change Ranger's food over but the results were definitely worth it. Here's a pic of Ranger after 4 months of Orijen (it's not a great pic of him, but it's a good one to see his shiny coat).


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

T&T said:


> What is the country of origin re vitamins & minerals used in their formulas ?


Why don't you ask the Eukanuba rep who posts on the forum? I obviously haven't tracked down every single ingredient in every single formula.


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *tippykayak*  

_Iams and Eukanuba dry kibble is not manufactured by Menu nor made from Chinese ingredients ..._





T&T said:


> What is the country of origin re vitamins & minerals used in their formulas ?





tippykayak said:


> Why don't you ask the Eukanuba rep who posts on the forum? I obviously haven't tracked down every single ingredient in every single formula.


Based on your comment regarding Iams/Eukanuba not using ingredients from China, I thought you HAD verified the information
I was just curious
Many pet food companies use supplements made in China 
Some will reveal their origin, others won't
Just another contributing factor reflected in the price a company will charge for their food


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

T&T said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tippykayak*
> 
> _Iams and Eukanuba dry kibble is not manufactured by Menu nor made from Chinese ingredients ..._
> ...


All I verified was that the main ingredients weren't imported from China, which is the reason they weren't involved in all of those scandals. I don't know about every little mineral supplement that goes into the food.


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

One of the deciding factors in my changing from NB to Fromm was the link T&T posted about NB using ethoxyquin in their formula. That and them deciding to increase the potato percentage in duck formula as well. GREAT research T&T - the Pack says Thanks. And yes, they must believe dad has a new stash of ducks somewhere!! LOL


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

ALL foods manufactured by Diamond have ethoxyquin added by the supplier. It's a tricky little loop hole that it doesn't have to be disclosed since THEY didn't add it.


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