# Bad breeder experience in Florida - Bunker update



## bunker's mom (Jul 15, 2008)

Well it has been awile since i have written. So many on this forum were so helpful when we learned that Bunker was fear/anxiety aggresive. He could no long live with us and our other two small dogs. It was and is so sad. I miss him so. Here is the story:

We purchased him for $2500 yes $2500 from Ivory Golden Retrievers in Thornotassa, Florida. The breeder was very convincing that she was an ethical and a good breeder. We brought him home at 8 weeks old. At the first visit to the vet two days later i was told he was aggresive, but did not think that was true. I did notify the breeder of the vet's opinion. She laughed it off. He also had skin problems. 

After time, I noticed he was very anxious and fearful of noises. then shortly after he attacked my sheltie - due to noise of a lawnmower making him nervous. The next day he attacked my shih tzu. These attacks were scary. The sheltie and shih tzu did get small injuries. it was very difficult to get bunker off of them. 

The vet tested him for health related behavioural problems - there were none. she diagnosed him fear/anxiety aggressive and i was told this would get worse - he was only four months old at that time. The vet recommended an expert behaviourist. he came to the house and stayed for two hours. he witnessed the mood changes and the anxiety. he also told me this would get worse and not training could help bunker that he needed to be in a home without other dogs, kids etc..

after a week of attempting to reach the breeder - she did want to know the expert's opinion. she finally called me. i again believed her and thought she had the best interest of bunker in mind. we brought bunker to her. she was to observe him and get him to a home with no other dogs... additionally she "promised" to provide us with another puppy. i did have a written contract ready for her to sign stating that, but she put on such a great show - weak with headache... so we did not make her sign it.

well a week or so later, she has bunker on her websie up for sale for $2500. we had friends inquire by email - she never mentioned his problem and even sent a video of how wonderfully trained he was. i did train him - he learned a lot here. in addition to all the expenses of vets - she advertised he had all his shots etc... well he was adopted. i called her - she was fine, no headache at first but when i told her i knew about bunker being sold, she got a severe headache and could not talk. i did manage to get somethings out of her. she stated she had an expert observe bunker and felt he was fine. she was to provide that report but i never received it. she also stated my expert did not have credentials - well i sent them to her. he has quite an impressive resume. 

i also asked about a puppy as she promised - there was never going to be a replacement puppy. i told her it is too emotional and i did not want another puppy that i wanted my money. she had to hang up. i have never heard from her again.

a demand letter was sent fed ex with a ten day deadline for her to send a check. no response. so now i am filing a law suit and complaints with the county and state and AKC and all others i can. i don't want this to happen to another puppy or people who love them.

it is sad i have to do this but i want her to know i will not give up and i want to know how bunker is and who he is with. they don't know about his problem. scary

sorry this is so long, but this needs to be told.

thanks all


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I'm so sorry you had to go through that  It's so sad and just so wrong and unethical of the breeder.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I commend you for telling your story, and for following through on this. I am a firm believer that if people do not, then "breeders" like this will just get bolder and bolder, believing that they are invincible. 
A dog like that, in the wrong situation, ican be dangerous, and it is unconscienable to me that she would not mention his prior home situation.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

What a shame...Im so sorry you have to go through all the heartbreak...
Thank you for sharing your story....it is kind of you to want to save another family the same heartbreak.

By any chance did you have him microchipped?
Random thought that if the new owners changed the info on the chip registry...maybe there is a way to get incontact with them?


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## Blaireli (Jun 3, 2008)

I'm so sorry to hear of the trouble you had with Bunker.  What a tough situation. Please keep us updated as this continues. Sending lots of hugs and good luck thoughts your way!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I am so glad that you are a paralegal with the skills& resources to take a stand. I am sorry for your loss of Bunker. I hope you do try again with a golden- I know the amazing people on this forum, with their good judgment and wise experience, are in the loop about good breeders worthy of your trust.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

I'm so sorry. You acted solely in Bunker's interest; this so-called "breeder" acts only to fatten her bank account, the dog (and new owners) be ******. I commend you for taking action against this "breeder" and wish you the greatest of success.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Will the breeder suddenly appear in this thread, as usually happens at some point? Rhetorical question.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I remember Bunker's story and it breaks my heart to hear the latest chapter. I am so glad you are pursuing her legally..... evidently the only place that will make an impact is in her pocketbook. I shudder to think what could be happening in his new family.... not only to them, but to Bunker. Please do keep us posted and we will keep you and Bunker in our thoughts and prayers.


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

Carol,
I am so sorry you are going through this. I know your best interests were for Bunker. There are a lot of ethical breeders on this forum that I hope guide you through recovering your fee for Bunker. I cannot believe she/they won't refund your money; there HAS to be a law supporting your side right? UGH. Please keep us updated on this issue, ok?
Take care and good luck.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

In New Jersey we have words for people like that...

She stole $2500 from you.
But remember that if this ever gets to a judge, she's going to talk about her years of experience, and how you the inexperienced dog owner couldn't handle this dog and she rescued both of you.

Go after her, but don't think it's going to be easy.

The other thing you might want to remind her. If (not when) this dog attacks someone, she will be held criminally and civilly liable, a case that could run into millions of dollars, and you and your experts will happily testify against her.

BTW, you should be sure to copy that "Bunker for Sale" page on her website, if you haven't already.

best
Allen


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> Will the breeder suddenly appear in this thread, as usually happens at some point? Rhetorical question.


well they are members of the forum so I imagine she shall have something to say


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

arcane said:


> well they are members of the forum so I imagine she shall have something to say


I'm going to hide under the bed until it's over,lol. Mybe try some of Tango's leftover acepromazine. . .


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> I'm going to hide under the bed until it's over,lol. Mybe try some of Tango's leftover acepromazine. . .


: should be interesting!


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

It always amazes me the way some breeders react to a puppy buyer with a problem. It is like it is your dog now, deal with it. To me it just shows how it is the almighty dollar and NOT the best interest of the dog that is important.
I remember a buyer from my last litter calling me after they had taken the pup to the vet for it's intial checkup. The entire litter was VERY mouthy and well the pup was insistent on grabbing the vet with it's mouth and actually got a hold of the vet's nose, I wish they had a photo. Anyway the vet tells them that this is a visous pup and thet should buy an electronic collar for it right away. My first response was that if at ANY time they did not feel safe for their children or themselves to immediately get in the car and head to my house with the dog and call me from their cell phone. I would be waiting for them with a check for the full amount they paid for the pup. My second response was to PLEASE find a new vet, this one was obvously an idiot.
The pup will be three years old the end of next month and is a very much loved and trusted part of that family. And yes they do have a new vet.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I read the other thread before this so was totally confused. Then I saw this new thread. I am sick about what this breeder has done. I'm glad you are pursuing legal action.


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

I think its a crying shame that she even has to go through the legal system to get her money back. She bought a dog, returned it, and didn't get her money back. Hmmmm....when I shop and return items, my money is refunded IMMEDIATELY.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

This is awful. Tell me, did you ever have Bunker Microchipped?


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## LOVEisGOLDEN (Jan 4, 2008)

how awful! the best of luck to you...


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I pray that Bunker doesnt have to pay the ultimate price for the breeder (and I use that word loosely) if he bites someone or another animal. There is the puppy lemon law in florida. Here is a website with it. http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0828/SEC29.HTM&Title=-%3E2007-%3ECh0828-%3ESection%2029#0828.29


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Hmm...both my breeders have had contract clauses that give them right of first refusal to take the puppy back for full or partial refund, depending on the problem (I think a problem like this would entitle me to somewhere between 70-100% of my money back). I've taken that as a sign that they have the best interest of the pup at heart. Is there nothing in your contract to that effect?

Of course, one of my contracts also has a "no rawhide" clause, so a caring breeder can sometimes be mildly inconvenient. But I'm much happier erring on the side of a protective breeder who insists on what she thinks is best for the dog than somebody who is going to sell a dog twice for $2500, and under false pretenses at that.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

tippykayak said:


> Hmm...both my breeders have had contract clauses that give them right of first refusal to take the puppy back for full or partial refund, depending on the problem (I think a problem like this would entitle me to somewhere between 70-100% of my money back). I've taken that as a sign that they have the best interest of the pup at heart. Is there nothing in your contract to that effect?


I believe the breeder did have that in the contract, got the pup back, resold the pup and is NOW *not honoring* her contract. The OP was entitled to her purchase price refunded or a replacement pup ...its pretty simple ...I wonder what the next chapter shall contain:uhoh:


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

Less than the money owed (easy for me to say), I am concerned about Bunker and about the safety of his new family. I'm sure they bought Bunker without a clue about his aggression problems. And the fact they were evident at 8 weeks ago is really frightening. This type of person (the puppy producer) really disgusts me.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

arcane said:


> I believe the breeder did have that in the contract, got the pup back, resold the pup and is NOW *not honoring* her contract. The OP was entitled to her purchase price refunded or a replacement pup ...its pretty simple ...I wonder what the next chapter shall contain:uhoh:


So at least there shouldn't be any legal difficulties here. You have a contract, you have a check that's been cashed, and you have a webpage that is advertising the pup for sale again. Even if the breeder does claim she rescued you and the pup, the contract terms should be fairly clear. Hopefully you can hang the threat of a lawsuit much larger than $2500 over her on the assumption that you'd incur legal costs she'd be liable for if you actually had to go after her.

At the risk of sounding insensitive, I will say I can imagine a situation like this from the breeder's perspective, in terms of reselling the dog if she was able to retrain the dog out of the anxious reactions. If she truly felt confident the dog had outgrown the problems, she might feel OK not listing them in the ad. Even if that's the case, I still think it would be unethical not to at least discuss those problems with potential adopters, no matter how "cured" I thought the dog was.

Regardless of the placement of the dog, the $2500 is your money, and I can think of no rationale under which an honorable person could keep the money and sell the dog.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

Step back from this and here's the scary thing. 
Look at the website, and there isn't a thing that would scare you off, aside from the creme goldens thing.
Everything seems to be in order, the dogs have clearances, the dogs are titled in some way (not AKC, but still), and she says all the right things about health and temperament, there's a puppy questionnaire...
And there are half a dozen glowing referrals. 
And yet...

allen


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

I am very sorry you are having to go through this. I hopw this gets resolved soon but of its in the contract you signed fight for it. Thats is very unthical.


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## jwemt81 (Aug 20, 2008)

Wow! I'm so, so sorry that you had to go through all of this. I can only imagine how hard it must be. You are definitely doing the right thing by filing complaints and a lawsuit. People need to be aware of these types of breeders (AKA con artists). I hope that you are able to get your money back and find out how Bunker is doing in his new home!


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## bunker's mom (Jul 15, 2008)

*This is awful*

Thanks for all your opinions and thoughts. I did not micro chip bunker. should have. On the Ivory Golden website - yes things look good. the testimonies are glowing yes - from a few. this breeder has had at least six litters since i have known her - this year. There is a chance and i bet there are wonderful dogs from her. but also there can be this same problem with others. i am experienced with dogs - had them all my life and trained them well. My expert behaviourist was and is convinced of his diagnosis as well as the vet. 

I have given the breeder every oportunity to do the right thing. but she continues to ignore me.

My main concern is for Bunker- what if he does bite someone. I hate t think of what could happen to him and of course the person or animal he attacks. the breeder lied to me in regard to her having an expert observe him. where is her report?

Yes in Florida there is a Pet Lemon Law and i have it and provide the breeder with the statute along with a copy of the complaint form to the state and her county. Oh and the process to complain to the AKC. 

Her contract is very vague but states not refunds for any reason. But the statute overrides the contract. unfortunately, we paid in cash - her request. I know that was dumb and I am a paralegal. I would always tell people not to do that. I do have her emails to others offering bunker and a video too she sent. I have prior emails from her also. 

I will be filing the suit next week and serving her. no, not using an attorney but have many friends who are attorneys. this is a simple small claims case. However, i feel she will not be honest even in court, but i do have lots of documents to show a judge.

Thanks again all
carol


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## peeps (Sep 12, 2007)

wow, sorry to hear about your troubl e twice now with the same breeder. Really it seems very dishonest - good luck in court and with your complaint. Hopefully the judge can compell her to release the name of the new owner and you can somehow check in on Bunkers wellbeing.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

If you have her email asking for cash only...


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

So when she has, say, a litter of ten pups that cost 2,500 each, and people pick up their pups on a specified day- she just has stacks and stacks of cash???? That's crazy!


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## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

I am so sorry this happened to you. I hope you get your money back...and I hope Bunker will be ok..and whoever bought him.....


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> So when she has, say, a litter of ten pups that cost 2,500 each, and people pick up their pups on a specified day- she just has stacks and stacks of cash???? That's crazy!


I dont think that in itself is totally crazy...alot of breeders ask for cash at p/u...what is in question is this persons ethics...just MHO


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Lol- I should have chosen a better word than crazy- I've just never seen 25,000 in cash in one place. . . Regardless of cash or check, I am sorry for everything that happened to Bunker and his humans.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

And also remember that rarely do all the pups in a litter go home in one day. It normally is spread out over th course of several days to a week.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> So when she has, say, a litter of ten pups that cost 2,500 each, and people pick up their pups on a specified day- she just has stacks and stacks of cash???? That's crazy!


 
I'd be inclined to notify the IRS.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I think you should send a certified letter stating your experience with the puppy and his aggression. Include copies of vet bills for treatment to your other dogs if it was needed. You can also get a statement from the vet and the trainer you worked with. That way, if the pup bites in the new home, it's impossible for her to say she didn't know of the bite history before he was rehomed.


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## FranH (May 8, 2005)

Hopefully a resolution can be achieved quickly. I'm so worried about Bunker and his new owners. 

A breeder should at least accept a cashiers check or money order. I cannot imagine giving someone $2500 in cash.


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## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

yikes, this whole situation is just so unfortunate! Poor Bunker, I pray he went to a responsible new owner that has no other dogs! I applaud you for standing up to the breeder, my fingers are crossed for you and Bunker!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

FranH said:


> Hopefully a resolution can be achieved quickly. I'm so worried about Bunker and his new owners.
> 
> A breeder should at least accept a cashiers check or money order. I cannot imagine giving someone $2500 in cash.


 
Gold Rocks had asked that all payments be made in cash...


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## bunker's mom (Jul 15, 2008)

*Certified mail*

I did sent a certified letter along with a fed ex letter. The letter which was really a demand (prior to suit a demand is made) attached with the letter was a copy of complaint forms to the state, county, her emails, copy of expert's report, expert's resume, vet report, Fla statue, county ordinance, complaint instructions for AKC, MFGRC Code of Ethics, and the letter itself stated our conversations. I also have emails from her to me and emails to our friends regarding the sale or Bunker after we returned him. I also have the video she sent of him to a possible buyer. I have a lot. Yes the IRS will be notified along with Attorney General of the State of Florida, Better Business Bureau, Florida Dept of Agriculture and Consumer Services, and Golden Retriever Clubs of Florida and America - of course this site. 

I have the AKC papers, did not register him to me soon enough. I do have the info = litter number, puppy number and pin number. I don't know if she requested a duplicate from the AKC. if she gave papers to the new owners. If they spent $2500 they would want the papers. 

She was well aware of his diagnosis. if he bites someone, she will be legally liable. In florida that opens her up to huge liability.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

Good for you! It seems you are well-prepared and have lots of documentation and proof to substantiate everything. Please keep us posted. Good luck!


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## Lilliegrace (Oct 22, 2008)

I am so sorry to hear of your bad experience. Be assured there are wonderful and caring breeders out there.
Dont give up.:wavey:


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## Phillyfisher (Jan 9, 2008)

bunker's mom said:


> I did sent a certified letter along with a fed ex letter. The letter which was really a demand (prior to suit a demand is made) attached with the letter was a copy of complaint forms to the state, county, her emails, copy of expert's report, expert's resume, vet report, Fla statue, county ordinance, complaint instructions for AKC, MFGRC Code of Ethics, and the letter itself stated our conversations. I also have emails from her to me and emails to our friends regarding the sale or Bunker after we returned him. I also have the video she sent of him to a possible buyer. I have a lot. Yes the IRS will be notified along with Attorney General of the State of Florida, Better Business Bureau, Florida Dept of Agriculture and Consumer Services, and Golden Retriever Clubs of Florida and America - of course this site.
> 
> I have the AKC papers, did not register him to me soon enough. I do have the info = litter number, puppy number and pin number. I don't know if she requested a duplicate from the AKC. if she gave papers to the new owners. If they spent $2500 they would want the papers.
> 
> She was well aware of his diagnosis. if he bites someone, she will be legally liable. In florida that opens her up to huge liability.


Good for you for taking her to the mat! Sorry you have to go thru this, but you will find a lot of support here for your efforts. Breeders like that need to be held accountable for their actions.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

Ljilly28 said:


> Lol- I should have chosen a better word than crazy- I've just never seen 25,000 in cash in one place. . . Regardless of cash or check, I am sorry for everything that happened to Bunker and his humans.


FWIW, a deposit of over $10,000 in cash has to be reported to the IRS and possibly some other federal authorities looking at terrorism-related money laundering. 

Four dogs and you're over the limit.

best
Allen


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## bunker's mom (Jul 15, 2008)

*Suit will be filed tomorrow*

It is sad, but we tried everything to work with her. She continues to ignore us. This morning a formal complaint went to the State of Florida, the Better Business Bureau in Tampa, AKC, and all Golden clubs and rescues in Florida. 

i am keeping an eye on animal rescue locations on the west coast of Florida in case Bunker's new owners give him up. The breeder did mention he went close to her home near Tampa. Also watching the breeder's site in case he is returned again. 

Suit will be filed tomorrow.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

Good luck. I applaud everything you are doing and regret that you even need to take action against this woman.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

Is there an update to this story? I note the filing was in July....we're in November...

Just wondering...


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

she updated this morning about the suit being filed today.


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## bunker's mom (Jul 15, 2008)

*this all started about August/September*

We purchased the puppy 6/26/08 and had to return him 9/9/08. *But the breeder has been well less than responsive from day one. a letter was sent to her September 18 via fed ex. We have tried and tried to be nice but she has left us no choice. Nearly two months of waiting to hear from her is enough. There is so much to this story... My concern is Bunker - is he ok? will he be ok? *

*Of course, the money is a concern. she should not profit on this either. She has made $5000 for one puppy, plus we paid all the vet bills etc.. *


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## bunker's mom (Jul 15, 2008)

*Update*

The breeder has reiumbursed our purchase price. She has provided information to me regarding the new owner of Bunker n/k/a Bentley. He seems to be doing well living alone with one woman. I hope this continues. The breeder's expert and my expert have different opinions on Bunker's problem. My main concern is for Bunker to be in the correct environment. Hopefully this one is it. We miss him so much.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

Well, that's about the best you could have expected from the situation. 
Have you talked to Bunker's new owner? 

best
Allen


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