# Looking for Young Adult AKC Female Golden



## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

I though you had only 1 female per your previous post.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...eder-puppy/108684-red-female.html#post1618253

Did you get a 2nd female since Jan.?

I would reread your own post. Most people with quality females are not going to sell them at a year old or 2 to just anyone.

What are you doing to enhance the breed? Showing? Obedience/Ability? Hunting?

I love red heads myself and would buy from a breeder whose's dogs are actively working.

Also, pet selling is not allowed in the marketplace.

Why haven't you kept some of you female puppies? Most breeders I know keep back a puppy or 2 with potential and use stud servicing for breeding (keeps the gene pool open) to add to the breed. 

Good luck to you.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

tessak22 said:


> I am currently a very small breeder, 2 females, 1 male. These Goldens are also my pets, and live indoors. I have a huge demand for puppies, not sure if its my advertising, my website, or what it may be, and I am constantly turning people down or sending them to other breeders or rescues. I do not breed for the money. It is a rare occasion where I actually profit from a litter. I do it because I enjoy it, and because I enjoy the owners and hearing about the puppies as they grow up. Anyways, now that you know a bit about me, I am looking to add another female to my "program." I would like to get a girl that is at least one, or closer to two. I am considering a puppy as well. I like the very dark red Goldens and would want this color in my female. I am very picky about who I breed and make sure they pass all health clearances and have suitable bloodlines and breed standards. If you, or know someone, who has a girl that may match this description, please let me know! Again, I understand that some people are anti-breeders, but someone has to create these beautiful creatures for us to enjoy them, and I pride myself in being a very responsible, reputable breeder. Thank you for your time!


 
Are the dogs that you currently own/breed on K9Data? Can you provide links to them? How could one possibly determine what would be "suitable" for your "program" without knowing what pedigrees you are currently working with, their clearance info (I assume available for verifying on the OFA and CERF databases) and also, photos would be helpful. Do you have references? As a fellow breeder, I couldn't make any referrals to someone with a "suitable" bitch without...


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Pointgold said:


> Are the dogs that you currently own/breed on K9Data? Can you provide links to them? How could one possibly determine what would be "suitable" for your "program" without knowing what pedigrees you are currently working with, their clearance info (I assume available for verifying on the OFA and CERF databases) and also, photos would be helpful. Do you have references? As a fellow breeder, I couldn't make any referrals to someone with a "suitable" bitch without...


OP- You mention your website can you provide a link? This may give Pointgold the info. she is requesting.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I would also ask if the prospective bitch would be bred to your own male? (Again, knowing his pedigree, health history, competitive accomplishments, and being able to see a photograph, would make selecting a "suitable" bitch at least a little easier...)

A reputable, responsible breeder will be happy to share such info...


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

MikaTallulah said:


> OP- You mention your website can you provide a link? This may give Pointgold the info. she is requesting.


 
That's okay. I found it.
Lucky Star Goldens :: Minnesota Golden Retriever Breeder


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

About those health clearances...


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## golden_eclipse (Apr 1, 2011)

With a little investigation this is her website: Brandyrae Lucky Star 

She was advertising on Ebay pets....and the picture on her profile matches with the pictures on the website..

Clearances are not full.


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## golden_eclipse (Apr 1, 2011)

haha..pointgold...Must have been typing at the same time.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

kdowningxc said:


> With a little investigation this is her website: Brandyrae Lucky Star
> 
> She was advertising on Ebay pets....and the picture on her profile matches with the pictures on the website..
> 
> Clearances are not full.


If this is the right website look at the puppy prices

About

Looks pretty cheap if all clearances have been done.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

MikaTallulah said:


> If this is the right website look at the puppy prices
> 
> About
> 
> Looks pretty cheap if all clearances have been done.


 
What a bargain. The money you've saved in the purchase price as compared to that of a well bred dog out of fully cleared parents with a strong ancestral health history can be banked towards the veterinary costs of oh, say, TPO or elbow surgery. Or, the monthly cost of keeping a dog with PU comfortable, if not from going blind.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

:thanks:


Pointgold said:


> What a bargain. The money you've saved in the purchase price as compared to that of a well bred dog out of fully cleared parents with a strong ancestral health history can be banked towards the veterinary costs of oh, say, TPO or elbow surgery. Or, the monthly cost of keeping a dog with PU comfortable, if not from going blind.


:thanks:

I agree with you


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## tessak22 (Jan 13, 2012)

Wow, what happened to "if you cant say anything nice, dont say anything at all." Brandy has certs done. Tika's certs should arrive any day as they were submitted March 19th, and Copper has hips done per his owner (not me).


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## tessak22 (Jan 13, 2012)

I should have known I was going to get attacked...


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

tessak22 said:


> Wow, what happened to "if you cant say anything nice, dont say anything at all." Brandy has certs done. Tika's certs should arrive any day as they were submitted March 19th, and Copper has hips done per his owner (not me).


Brandy was bred without benefit of clearances before. Clearances involve more than just hips... as a member of the GRCA you know that. And your original post would certainly make it seem that you do full clearances. You wrote: " I am very picky about who I breed and make sure they pass all health clearances and have suitable bloodlines and breed standards."

It really is not an attack, but when you put yourself out as a "reputable, responsible breeder" and are looking to purchase another bitch to breed, the information will be challenged.

Are you familiar with PU?


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

tessak22 said:


> Wow, what happened to "if you cant say anything nice, dont say anything at all." Brandy has certs done. Tika's certs should arrive any day as they were submitted March 19th, and Copper has hips done per his owner (not me).


Even if your girls have ALL their clearances (hips, elbows, heart, and eyes) why breed to a male who only has hips done? If you are that picky shouldn't the stud have all clearances too?


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Once again, I came late to this party. To the OP, seriously, what did you expect? On your website, you indicate that you are a member of the GRCA. Are you familiar with the code of ethics? On this forum, you state that Brandy's clearances are forthcoming... yet she had a litter Superbowl Sunday 2010. And if you have used Copper in the past, he just got only a hip clearance in Feb. Your other bitch, Tika has no clearances to be found on OFA.. so you cannot expect to post what you did on this forum and what you have on your website and not have some feathers ruffled here.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Sally's Mom said:


> Once again, I came late to this party. To the OP, seriously, what did you expect? On your website, you indicate that you are a member of the GRCA. Are you familiar with the code of ethics? On this forum, you state that Brandy's clearances are forthcoming... yet she had a litter Superbowl Sunday 2010. And if you have used Copper in the past, he just got only a hip clearance in Feb. Your other bitch, Tika has no clearances to be found on OFA.. so you cannot expect to post what you did on this forum and what you have on your website and not have some feathers ruffled here.


Well said :You_Rock_


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## potentiallygolden (Dec 21, 2011)

tessak22 said:


> I should have known I was going to get attacked...


Being a non-breeder, I can say that from my perspective, I don't think you were attacked. Being from Minnesota myself, I understand one can get used to the culture of Minnesota-nice, but in the real world, especially in the dog breeder world (from what I've observed), I think it's completely normal to be challenged on integrity quality, and values, especially in professional circles. The burden of proof is on you (or anyone) to demonstrate the appropriateness of them being in a professional circle. A reputable breeder who produces high quality dogs should be able to respond to legitimate topic-related questions that probe into their assertions.


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## My Big Kahuna (Dec 14, 2011)

The people on this forum do not get on here looking for a fight... They simply want what's best for the breed... That's the goal... They are experts in their particular fields and many would do well to follow their advice for the betterment of the breed... That's the ultimate goal... The world does not need more "golden puppies" by any means... Due to the number of BYBs the goldens, as a breed, have developed NUMEROUS hereditary health issues and so, the need for health clearances... Just please get all clearances done and put in due diligence when selecting a bitch and a stud and this conversation will go much differently... I hope you take the advice of the very knowledgable members and produce the best pups possible (since I'm sure this thread isn't going to stop you)... I'm trying to be diplomatic but you have to see where the other members are coming from.........................


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## potentiallygolden (Dec 21, 2011)

My Big Kahuna said:


> The people on this forum do not get on here looking for a fight... They simply want what's best for the breed... That's the goal... They are experts in their particular fields and many would do well to follow their advice for the betterment of the breed... That's the ultimate goal... The world does not need more "golden puppies" by any means... Due to the number of BYBs the goldens, as a breed, have developed NUMEROUS hereditary health issues and so, the need for health clearances... Just please get all clearances done and put in due diligence when selecting a bitch and a stud and this conversation will go much differently... I hope you take the advice of the very knowledgable members and produce the best pups possible (since I'm sure this thread isn't going to stop you)... I'm trying to be diplomatic but you have to see where the other members are coming from.........................


To piggy back on that, from my persective (active in the puppy buying process right now), I can say that I see some of your puppy prices, and my takeaways are:
1. There's no way sire and bitch have clearances for hips, eyes, heart, and thyroid AND/OR
2. There's a good chance some/all of the puppies are going to have a higher risk of health problems than other litters
3. These prices are backyard-breeder prices
4. What support can I really expect from a breeder who sold me a dog for $200 in the event the dog has health problems? $200 won't even cover diagnostic tests for hip, elbow, eye, etc problems.

Could I be wrong? I'm wrong a lot, and I certainly concede I could be, but the economist in me says: "if there's such a high demand for this breeder's puppies, why are they charging so much lower than typical market prices - I wouldn't expect to get a golden puppy in that area of the state/country for less than $800." The story I tell myself is "backyard breeder." Appologies if this mischaracterizes you, but that's my takeaway.


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## golden_eclipse (Apr 1, 2011)

potentiallygolden said:


> To piggy back on that, from my persective (active in the puppy buying process right now), I can say that I see some of your puppy prices, and my takeaways are:
> 1. There's no way sire and bitch have clearances for hips, eyes, heart, and thyroid AND/OR
> 2. There's a good chance some/all of the puppies are going to have a higher risk of health problems than other litters
> 3. These prices are backyard-breeder prices
> ...


Her prices are $500 for one dam and $700 for the other (and $1400 with full registration out of the more expensive mother). I can't see a reason why she is charging more for one dam over the other, neither has any titles, or clearances, or anything in their pedigree that is the least bit impressive for a breeding prospect. Still a complete rip off. But you are right about the BYB feel, and the lack of support from someone that inexperienced in the breed. I mean imagine the number of rare health problems goldens come down with or the day to day things, that a reputable breeder has experience tons of times, and can offer a home remedy off the top of their head or recommend a specialist, or bring your puppy to a health clinic while they are attending a show. 

Of course everyone has to start somewhere. But its important to do A LOT OF RESEARCH and have an experience mentor who is well respected to be there holding your hand for at least the first few years if not more. 
Also I think people getting into dogs through breeding verses competing are at a severe disadvantage from getting help from reputable breeders. Because reputable breeders tend to enjoy the sport more than the breeding part (because there is really so much that can and does go wrong, and you are responsible for those puppies as much as the owners are, for their 10-15+ years.) And sometimes even the most careful breedings go wrong, then what do you do. Breeding is a huge gamble and should only be done under the best of circumstances with odds stacked as much as possible. Other than that, just enjoy the activities you can do with your awesome dog(s), conformation, obedience, hunting, agility, ect ect.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> What a bargain. The money you've saved in the purchase price as compared to that of a well bred dog out of fully cleared parents with a strong ancestral health history can be banked towards the veterinary costs of oh, say, TPO or elbow surgery. Or, the monthly cost of keeping a dog with PU comfortable, if not from going blind.


To be fair PU would be unlkely due to the pedigree. On the other hand Juvenile Cataracts and prcd PRA are a real possibility for the same reason. Hips could also be a problem so it is nice to see OFA's on the hips. Part of the pedigree is good for hearts, other parts can be a little shakey. 

This kind of pairing is exactly why the GRCA recommendations exist. The possibility to produce nice dogs exists as well as the possibility to produce some real junk. You really have to make the effort to dot the I's and cross all the T's to minimize the production of clinkers. 

(I'm old enough to have known and scratched the ears of several of the dogs found 4 to 8 generations back in these pedigrees and owned offspring produced by them. Some were very nice dogs, others, well I don't use lines that include them anymore, so you can draw your own conclusions there.)


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Swampcollie, good to know...


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Sally's Mom said:


> Swampcollie, good to know...


 
The school of hard knocks is an effective education. It hurts a little bit from time to time but the lessons are remembered.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Swampcollie said:


> To be fair PU would be unlkely due to the pedigree. On the other hand Juvenile Cataracts and prcd PRA are a real possibility for the same reason. Hips could also be a problem so it is nice to see OFA's on the hips. Part of the pedigree is good for hearts, other parts can be a little shakey.
> 
> This kind of pairing is exactly why the GRCA recommendations exist. The possibility to produce nice dogs exists as well as the possibility to produce some real junk. You really have to make the effort to dot the I's and cross all the T's to minimize the production of clinkers.
> 
> (I'm old enough to have known and scratched the ears of several of the dogs found 4 to 8 generations back in these pedigrees and owned offspring produced by them. Some were very nice dogs, others, well I don't use lines that include them anymore, so you can draw your own conclusions there.)


 
I was using PU as a general example. Claim of GRCA membership here is also a question. It's being looked into.


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## tessak22 (Jan 13, 2012)

GRCA membership has been confirmed, good try though


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

tessak22 said:


> GRCA membership has been confirmed, good try though


Is that all you have? Really? The emblem used on your website is not the one that the GRCA has approved as to be used during the membership year. And does not include the required text along with it (all of this is outlined by the GRCA in the members only portion of the website) so it certainly warranted questioning.
How about addressing the rest of the issues?


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I am really troubled that full registration is available at extra cost.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> I am really troubled that full registration is available at extra cost.


The AKC "frowns" upon this practice. (Essentially considered to be selling papers.)
Interesting, too, is that the GRCA, AKC, and OFA logos no longer appear on her site. Still waiting for the official word regarding GRCA membership. (We all know that individuals cannot be members of the AKC.)


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

And folks, the prices just went up! The Brandy pups are now $750! And the Tika pups are $1000 or $2000 for full registration! What was it PT Barnum said?


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Sally's Mom said:


> And folks, the prices just went up! The Brandy pups are now $750! And the Tika pups are $1000 or $2000 for full registration! What was it PT Barnum said?


Wow. I wish that in cases like this PT Barnum was not so smart...


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## golden_eclipse (Apr 1, 2011)

Nothing makes sense! But I hope this thread shows up on a google search and the average person will read, that paying for those puppies, will be like burning your paycheck (s).


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## potentiallygolden (Dec 21, 2011)

This thread is getting more of a negative trajectory as it goes on. Prior to the OP responding to some of the posts, the thread was more objective than antagonistic (IMHO).

As a lay person, it seems clear to me that the OP doesn't have a lot of experience in the culture that some other posters have had within breeding circles. So I think OP may not be aware of some of the bullet points that are so cemented in the minds of others on this board - GRCA COE, guidelines set forth by [Insert organization/club here], etc.

But I wish that when a person such as the OP reaches out (even inadvertently, such as in this case), there might be someone who might take a mentor-style tact in responding, such as directing them to [insert online document here].

Yes, breeders have a lot of responsibilities to do the legwork themselves, but from my perspective, what the OP seems to be doing shouldn't permanently disqualify them from ever having "trusted breeder" status, or whatever it is that separates a good breeder from a byb. It seems to me the OP needs a mentor.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I guess I posted what I did because after getting information on how to do things correctly, she increased the prices of her pups. From my point of view, I believe that to breed dogs, you should be involved in breed clubs and some aspect of competition. When you do that there is no question about what clearances you need or what the breed standard looks like.


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## potentiallygolden (Dec 21, 2011)

Sally's Mom said:


> I guess I posted what I did because after getting information on how to do things correctly, she increased the prices of her pups. From my point of view, I believe that to breed dogs, you should be involved in breed clubs and some aspect of competition. When you do that there is no question about what clearances you need or what the breed standard looks like.


I hope I didn't come off as preachy...in my line of work (computer programming), it's very very clear when someone isn't an expert. I get the impression it's a lot like that with breeding too.

Maybe it's just the nature of the beast that when someone doesn't have the right keywords, etc, they get shunned, but I've never been a fan of that.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

potentiallygolden said:


> This thread is getting more of a negative trajectory as it goes on. Prior to the OP responding to some of the posts, the thread was more objective than antagonistic (IMHO).
> 
> As a lay person, it seems clear to me that the OP doesn't have a lot of experience in the culture that some other posters have had within breeding circles. So I think OP may not be aware of some of the bullet points that are so cemented in the minds of others on this board - GRCA COE, guidelines set forth by [Insert organization/club here], etc.
> 
> ...


 
The OP did reach out. She reached out trying to find another bitch to breed. She put herself out there as being a reputable, responsible breeder who does ALL health clearances, which is demonstrably FALSE. This person doesn't want a mentor, because she put herself out there as knowing it all. She knows exactly what should be done, because she talks about it. Doing it, however, seems to be the issue. And I am sorry, but anyone who so easily discards a dog simply because he is not the color that she has decided that she wants to breed is easily separated from "good breeders".

Additionally, I just heard back from the GRCA Internet Watchdog liason. *The OP is NOT a GRCA member. *(She claimed to be on her site, and when it was mentioned here, well, you saw her response.) "Trusted"?

Another person claiming GRCA membership was confirmed as not being - Shadow Mountain Goldens. He owns Simba. Sire of a litter recently whelped by a forum member. It may not seem like much, but claims like this are posted on such breeder's websites to "legitimize" themselves. If they lie about that, what else?


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Also, if you program a computer wrong, you can (most the time) go back and correct your mistakes. Puppies from BYB don't have that chance, and often times lead a life of pain and suffering. 

I'm all for mentoring new people who would like to "get into dogs". However, those who know better and give false information deserve the response they get.


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## potentiallygolden (Dec 21, 2011)

I'm not trying to justify the OP's behavior. Evidently, at the time of posting, OP stated on her website that she is a member of GRCA. I don't see that on the website right now, but I'll assume it was.

A good breeder doesn't breed for color, does all the clearances, doesn't claim membership of an organization they're not a member of, and avoids selling on full registration (along with the 300 other things that I have no idea what breeders do); therefore, OP has violated the sensibilities of breeders here, along with violating the COE.

So this places the OP somewhere in the spectrum between a completely uninformed backyard breeder and a monstrous liar.

Maybe my problem is that I haven't seen enough of these sorts of things to be too angry about it, or maybe I'm too soft on people, but I'd rather assume the former than the latter.



Pointgold said:


> The OP did reach out. She reached out trying to find another bitch to breed. She put herself out there as being a reputable, responsible breeder who does ALL health clearances, which is demonstrably FALSE. This person doesn't want a mentor, because she put herself out there as knowing it all. She knows exactly what should be done, because she talks about it. Doing it, however, seems to be the issue. And I am sorry, but anyone who so easily discards a dog simply because he is not the color that she has decided that she wants to breed is easily separated from "good breeders".
> 
> Additionally, I just heard back from the GRCA Internet Watchdog liason. *The OP is NOT a GRCA member. *(She claimed to be on her site, and when it was mentioned here, well, you saw her response.) "Trusted"?
> 
> Another person claiming GRCA membership was confirmed as not being - Shadow Mountain Goldens. He owns Simba. Sire of a litter recently whelped by a forum member. It may not seem like much, but claims like this are posted on such breeder's websites to "legitimize" themselves. If they lie about that, what else?


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

She did have. GRCA. member emblem on her website which has been removed... I saw it.


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## golden_eclipse (Apr 1, 2011)

Lying to exploit someone for their money, is probably as low as it gets in my book, morally. I assume, she is well being. But the fact that she read what reputable breeders do, copied things off their website and thought she could get away with it, in the face of very educated exhibitors and breeders, shows she doesn't really know what she is getting into. So I do give some sympathy, not much. But honestly lying, is probably the last thing someone trying to get into the dog scene should do. How on earth do you expect a reputable breeder to trust her with one of their beloved puppies, carefully bred, from years and years of working on their breeding program, when she starts off by lying. Being a member of the GRCA is not a hard thing to do, like why do you lie about something like that? Its just not something that is tolerated in the breeding world, because so much in breeding is on the honor system. I mean I don't know for sure whether or not a stud dog gets hot spots, so I have to really trust that stud dog owner, and other breeders comments on that pedigree, to know if the dog will pass on allergies to my puppies, that I will be responsible for. Do you see just how important trust is, in the breeding world? Puppies lives literally depend on honesty.


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## potentiallygolden (Dec 21, 2011)

Your response helps me understand the mentality and culture more. Thank you for that. Obviously the OP was flippant about something that breeders and others here hold very dear and important, which is what set off the responses. I'd just about exhausted my counterpoint anyway, so I suppose I'll defer to the experts on this one.



kdowningxc said:


> Lying to exploit someone for their money, is probably as low as it gets in my book, morally. I assume, she is well being. But the fact that she read what reputable breeders do, copied things off their website and thought she could get away with it, in the face of very educated exhibitors and breeders, shows she doesn't really know what she is getting into. So I do give some sympathy, not much. But honestly lying, is probably the last thing someone trying to get into the dog scene should do. How on earth do you expect a reputable breeder to trust her with one of their beloved puppies, carefully bred, from years and years of working on their breeding program, when she starts off by lying. Being a member of the GRCA is not a hard thing to do, like why do you lie about something like that? Its just not something that is tolerated in the breeding world, because so much in breeding is on the honor system. I mean I don't know for sure whether or not a stud dog gets hot spots, so I have to really trust that stud dog owner, and other breeders comments on that pedigree, to know if the dog will pass on allergies to my puppies, that I will be responsible for. Do you see just how important trust is, in the breeding world? Puppies lives literally depend on honesty.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

tessak22 said:


> GRCA membership has been confirmed, good try though


 
And there is this.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Persons who falsely claim membership will be contacted by GRCA Internet Watchdog Committee. If they do not cease and desist, it goes to the board, and then, if necessary, to legal.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

I hope I don't get attacked for saying this, so I hope I say it so others can understand what I mean.
I fully believe in breeders correctly following all the protocols that have been listed on this thread. When you breed according to those standards, you lessen the chances of problems in the offspring.
I just don't think anyone should say that all dogs that are bred by BYBs have serious problems, because those dogs could turn out just fine. The odds are not as good, but it can happen.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Ignutah, I wouldn't attack you for that. I might not have a job if I dissed all of the BYB dogs and puppy mill dogs when they come into see me.... but if someone prior to purchasing or even breeding a dog asked me my opinion, I will give it!


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

Thanks, Sally'sMom
I agree completely about wanting to advise someone before they buy or breed on what they need to learn before they get started.
I just feel sometimes that there are too many absolute statements about all BYB dogs having a lifetime of health problems. 
Obviously I have a personal reason for feeling this way: Brooks was purchased by my son's girlfriend from an ad in the newspaper (AKC Golden Retriever puppies $250!). The "breeder" later went on to breed Golden Doodles 
But, Brooks has been a perfect dog in temperament and handsomeness (guess I'm biased). And, in seven years his health issues have been so minimal as to be almost not worth mentioning.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

And from my point of view, I judge dogs by how they are at the vet's office. If they don't want a piece of me, they are good dogs!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

And I said *often times*, nothing absolute. There are also times when well bred dogs from reputable breeders have health issues. When you purchase from reputable breeders, you hedge your bets against future problems. However IF there are issues these same breeders will stand behind their dogs. BYB?...You're on your own.

I learned that quick when I purchased my first GSD years ago. Went back to the "breeder" and my boyfriend had to duck a punch from her husband.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Sally's Mom said:


> Once again, I came late to this party. To the OP, seriously, what did you expect? On your website, you indicate that you are a member of the GRCA. Are you familiar with the code of ethics? On this forum, you state that Brandy's clearances are forthcoming... yet she had a litter Superbowl Sunday 2010. And if you have used Copper in the past, he just got only a hip clearance in Feb. Your other bitch, Tika has no clearances to be found on OFA.. so you cannot expect to post what you did on this forum and what you have on your website and not have some feathers ruffled here.


Late but helpful in focusing on the facts instead of on venting at the OP.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

potentiallygolden said:


> So this places the OP somewhere in the spectrum between a completely uninformed backyard breeder and a monstrous liar.
> 
> Maybe my problem is that I haven't seen enough of these sorts of things to be too angry about it, or maybe I'm too soft on people, but I'd rather assume the former than the latter.


I think your approach is a good one. Give people the benefit of the doubt until the proof rolls in, and even then, focus on facts and objective information rather than on character assassination.

I get incredibly angry when people breed carelessly. There's little that gets my hackles up more than when people inflict needless suffering on a dog. But if posting becomes more about venting our anger or showing off our expertise than addressing the situation, I truly believe we do more harm than good.


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## golden_eclipse (Apr 1, 2011)

My biggest beef about BYB and mills, is they do solely contribute to the dogs in shelters being destroyed, because unlike reputable breeders there is no screening to getting the dog other than having money. I am not saying the OP is like that, but I do have a problem with lying, especially if she is seriously trying to get into the dog world. Which seems to be the case, with two females and trying to get another. That's more than a lot of hobby breeders have (at least three that are in the right stage to have a litter, often they are puppies growing out, or retired dogs that aren't going anywhere). When we first got started, we were lied to by many people, we wasted a lot of money, time and effort, and felt a lot of heart ache, because we didn't know who to trust. It took a lot of years to figure it out, but it would have been a lot easier, if there wasn't those people lying to us and stealing money from us.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I was just contacted by a second GRCA Internet Watchdog who said that this person _is _on the GRCA Roster. Not sure why the confusion, but if she is in fact a member, I was incorrectly told that she was not. She was not using the approved emblem, nor the required text, and it's since been removed. She obviously, if a member, does _not _subscribe to the COE as regards breeding practices. :no:


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