# Has anyone adopted from Seasons Gold?



## HiTideGoldens

Wow, 17 bitches in the kennel with 3 litters on the ground at once and another planned for the summer. That seems like a lot of litters and a lot of dogs.... in my opinion. It also doesn't appear that they are active in any AKC competitive venue...just the one dog who is an International Champion. (Not the same thing as an AKC champion.) I think you can do better.


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## xSLZx

I agree with a LOT of females. It confused me actually.


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## HiTideGoldens

I initially thought "Oh, these are the dogs they've had over the years." but then saw the retired girls at the bottom. It just doesn't seem that they breed sparingly....in fact, by the amount of litters on the ground at once it appears that the criteria for deciding whether or not to breed is simply that the bitch be in season. That's it.

Based on their website, I would look elsewhere.


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## Sophie_Mom

In my opinion, that is a lot of dogs living there! With 3 litters on the ground this summer, I can't imagine them having time (or enough hands!) to properly care for and socialize all of those puppies - let alone their own grown dogs! It just seems to be "too much" to me.


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## HiTideGoldens

Sophie_Mom said:


> It just seems to be "too much" to me.


That's exactly it. "Too much" everything.


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## xSLZx

Very true. I wasn't sure if i dug this link up on my own or if i got if from someone here. 
I'm having a horrible time finding a decent breeder. What the heck. Where are all the good ones? Obviously not in North Carolina.


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## Sophie_Mom

There is lots and lots of great information here:
http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=22440

I'm sure if you asked about good breeders in NC, you'd get some wonderful suggestions! If you do a search on GRF and put in "breeder NC" it pulls up some previous threads with some names and ideas for you! Good luck!


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## Golden123

xSLZx said:


> Very true. I wasn't sure if i dug this link up on my own or if i got if from someone here.
> I'm having a horrible time finding a decent breeder. What the heck. Where are all the good ones? Obviously not in North Carolina.


 Are you against traveling to MA?


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## HiTideGoldens

xSLZx said:


> Very true. I wasn't sure if i dug this link up on my own or if i got if from someone here.
> I'm having a horrible time finding a decent breeder. What the heck. Where are all the good ones? Obviously not in North Carolina.


http://www.honorgr.com/

I know someone who is very active in showing their dogs (and very picky) who just got a pup from them. I don't know anything about them personally except for what I've heard from my friend, but a quick review of their website looks good to me. They've got an impressive number of breed champions with their kennel name on them. And they're in Charlotte


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## rappwizard

xSLZx said:


> Very true. I wasn't sure if i dug this link up on my own or if i got if from someone here.
> I'm having a horrible time finding a decent breeder. What the heck. Where are all the good ones? Obviously not in North Carolina.


There's several active excellent AKC hobby breeders in North Carolina--what was your price range?


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## fostermom

I think it's sad that only one of the pictures I saw showed a dog in the house. They were all in the yard or in the whelping pen.


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## xSLZx

rappwizard said:


> There's several active excellent AKC hobby breeders in North Carolina--what was your price range?


Honestly, we were looking between "$800-$1500". But the two websites i have gotten from people here are both $2000 for their pups.

If that's all we can find, then that's all we can find. But i'd like to find someone who is a tad cheaper. I don't think my hubby will go for $2000.

I do realize rescues are a lot cheaper, but we're still looking at puppies for now as well.


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## luv2smile

Same boat here and I'm looking in your area too (I'm in VA, but looking in NC too). You can see my northern va thread below. We were hoping to find a quality, healthy pup for under $1,000, but like you, I'm having a very hard time in that price range and I'm getting more and more disturbed the more I read and find lots and lots of breeders that look good on the outside, but not so much once you dig around.


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## eeneymeanymineymo

Crescent Goldens has a litter due mid-August out of Spicy X Hooch:

http://www.crescentgoldens.com/litters.html

They are located in the Raleigh -Durham area and pups are $ 1300.


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## eeneymeanymineymo

Leeah Chew is in VA. and has 2 litters born June 1st:

www.mybuddygoldens.com

Not sure if any pet pups are available nor do I know prices. She had 10 pups Chaos X Duckie (5m/5F) and 7 pups Gracie X Cooper (4m/3F). Might be worth checking out.

Also, 2 other breeders to contact for pups perhaps later in NC:

www.kjengoldens.com
www.lyricgoldens.com

Neither have pups now.


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## HiTideGoldens

eeneymeanymineymo said:


> Leeah Chew is in VA. and has 2 litters born June 1st:
> 
> www.mybuddygoldens.com
> 
> Not sure if any pet pups are available nor do I know prices. She had 10 pups Chaos X Duckie (5m/5F) and 7 pups Gracie X Cooper (4m/3F). Might be worth checking out.
> 
> Also, 2 other breeders to contact for pups perhaps later in NC:
> 
> www.kjengoldens.com
> www.lyricgoldens.com
> 
> Neither have pups now.


Holy samoly, that Chaos litter looks awesome!!!


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## rappwizard

eeneymeanymineymo said:


> Crescent Goldens has a litter due mid-August out of Spicy X Hooch:
> 
> http://www.crescentgoldens.com/litters.html
> 
> They are located in the Raleigh -Durham area and pups are $ 1300.


I know of some people in South Florida that own and have bred with Crescent and they are extremely happy.

All the Crescent goldens I have seen are a glittering golden color--I mention that because someone had posted that they preferred a lighter shade; the goldens I have seen also have good bone and very pleasing heads--IMHO, someone who seeks a "blocky" head and body would find their type of dogs to their liking.


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## rappwizard

eeneymeanymineymo said:


> Leeah Chew is in VA. and has 2 litters born June 1st:
> 
> www.mybuddygoldens.com
> 
> Not sure if any pet pups are available nor do I know prices. She had 10 pups Chaos X Duckie (5m/5F) and 7 pups Gracie X Cooper (4m/3F). Might be worth checking out. . . .


Did you see they also have a young show dog for sale? He looks on the blond side? Frog is his name--guess they want someone to help him finish his Championship?

He's got his CD--Companion Dog title (obedience)
RE -- Rally Excellent (rally obedience)
JH -- Junior Hunter (huntin' dawg title!)
WC -- Working Certificate -- Golden Retriever Club of America huntin' dawg title!
CGC-- Canine Good Citizen -- basic obedience/temperament certification by the AKC
and he's AKC pointed in the show ring! 

oh yes, his hips are good, elbows normal and heart and eyes are clear. 

Wonder how much they want for him?


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## eeneymeanymineymo

Frog is 4 yrs. old with all of his clearances as well as titles & AKC ptd. and I believe "for sale to a serious show home" means the price range for him would be quite expensive! Usually a "backer" might be sought for a dog like this in order to complete his AKC CH. on a co-ownership or sold outright with a contract to have him shown.


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## twogoldenboys

xSLZx said:


> Very true. I wasn't sure if i dug this link up on my own or if i got if from someone here.
> I'm having a horrible time finding a decent breeder. What the heck. Where are all the good ones? Obviously not in North Carolina.


 
There are many "good" and responsible breeders in North Carolina. You shouldn't make a blanket statement for the whole state because of one breeder. I would suggest contacting the Golden Retriever Clubs in NC for breeder referrals. www.tarheelgrc.org is a good start. We are located in the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area and can refer you to several responsible breeders in the area.


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## xSLZx

twogoldenboys said:


> There are many "good" and responsible breeders in North Carolina. You shouldn't make a blanket statement for the whole state because of one breeder. I would suggest contacting the Golden Retriever Clubs in NC for breeder referrals. www.tarheelgrc.org is a good start. We are located in the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area and can refer you to several responsible breeders in the area.


 
I have contacted the tarheel grc already. Actually, their site wasn't working on the referrals link and i emailed them to have it fixed, which they did. Believe me, i've been checking all around for months. The statement about NC in general was just out of frustration. We ended up picking someone we feel good about. So, everything is well.


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## Scook152

What breeder did you end up going with ?


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## GoldenJustin

I'm new to this site and am just now starting to look for a Golden puppy. We're in no hurry to add to our family and are doing the research right now. 
I asked questions about this breeder, Season's Gold, on another forum (Breeders in Charlotte) and looked into Seasons Gold. I live just over 10 miles from their farm and intend to go check it out. I am surprised at the number of girls they have on site but was able to check their registrations on k9-data and all (I checked) have standard clearances (hip, elbow, heart, eye). 
It doesn't bother me they don't show their dogs or are not active in Memberships because like many pet owners, all I want is a quality family member with a Golden's temperament and (hopefully) good health. All I am truly looking for is puppies who are healthy, handled and well adjusted. Honestly, the price ($900) is the max my wife would approve of and I REALLY want another Golden. (In fact I remember the moment several months after my first died that I knew my next dog would be a Golden)
I've emailed Kary at Seasons Gold and am planning to set up a trip and visit the dogs/puppies. She was kind in email and I am not going to pass judgement before I go. 
I guess the reason I mention this is I plan to post on here when I find the time for a visit and let others know what I felt during the visit. 
I don't know if my uninformed opinion will hold much weight in a community of breed experts but feel since I'm doing this for myself, I ought to at least report my experience. 

On a side, but related, note I will be visiting other breeders in the area before I choose a puppy. I don't know what will come of the visits or what to expect honestly but I'll ask a whole lot of questions and add to that list if others what to offer questions.


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## Sally's Mom

Just remember that eye clearances are annual, so anything past 2010 is not valid. and remember that practitioner cardiac clearances are not the same as cardiologist clearances....


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## GoldenJustin

Sally's Mom - Thanks! I appreciate any help I can get. I reviewed a lot of the posts on breeders in this forum and there is a lot of very good information. Obviously, you can meticulously plan something and issues can still arise (or so I remind myself) but if done properly the potential for getting a healthy pet is far greater.


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## xSLZx

GoldenJustin, this Thread is SO OLD, i'm glad i got here in time. We DID end up going with Kary Love & Seasons Gold. This is where Sage came from (in my siggy pic). We went and visited, i've talked to Kary quite a few times on the phone, i felt very confident with her and her dogs! She has a great family, and her pups are amazing. I wasn't so sure at first with all her females, but visiting her farm and house, they're all in very good conditions.
She gave us all of Sage's paperwork, meds, food, instructions on what to do/not to do, umm.. i forget what else. I really do recommend her. Her website isn't the greatest thing, but i'd go back to them again in the future. GL!!


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## DreamingGold

I looked at their website before realizing that the thread was super old, but want to post for anyone else potentially looking at them. I'm not the most knowledgeable here, but is anyone else mortified that a 'breeder' would have a litter that she doesn't know the sire of?!! The website states that the second litter has been dna tested to try to figure it out!!


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## xSLZx

Something definitely went wrong. Maybe one of her females got in with the males, or she tried to breed 2 and didn't think it worked and tried breeding with another. She said it was a surprise litter, so she's having them DNA tested to find out which male.

I do think it was irresponsible for sure, but until we know the full detail of what happened, nobody can properly judge. Her females and males are separated far enough, as i was at her ranch, and seen first hand. Her pups get lots of playtime and attention from tons of people who have their horses boarded in her stables.


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## KristyP81

*About Season Gold*

I brought a puppy from this breeder. She has the healthiest puppies and I think she is the best breeder that I have ever found. My puppy is in good health and is so loveable. That breeder takes good care of her dogs and puppies. I have went to see other breeders before going to this breeder. The only thing I have to say is, thank god I didn't buy a puppy from the other breeders. Season Gold has the best looking puppies and nicely in shape too. My vet doctor has also said that this was the best looking golden retriever puppy that he has seen in a long while and was well talking care of by her breeder. For you people that keep reading their website about their golden retrievers and say look else where. You have to go there like I did , To see what the place looks like and the puppies. The women is such a sweet lady and takes real good care of them puppies. Me and my husband were very happy and glad to find her. We are very happy parents of a golden retriever and will buy another one later on from her. I also told my friends and family about this breeder and they are thinking about buying one from them too. So to me and my family. She takes real good care of them puppies.


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## Sally's Mom

FYI, I am a vet and I work with vets who cannot necessarily judge a quality golden. Not saying yours isn't quality, but most vets I know do not know the golden standard...


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## KristyP81

Sally, You might be a vet but you did not have to be mean about it. I had a golden retriever that I brought from a different breeder when it was a puppy. Me and my husband was taking the puppy to the vets almost every week. We did not know at the time that when we got her she was already sick and loaded with worms. We treated her and care for her until she pasted away. She was like only 10 weeks old and we got her at 7 weeks. My golden retriever I have now is very healthy and I don't have that problem with this puppy and I brought her at seasons gold. she is very sweet and has no health problems. That is why my vet said that.


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## Sally's Mom

That comment I made was not meant to be mean. All I was saying is that in vet school, we are not taught the breed standards so as to be able to correctly comment on them.


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## Sally's Mom

And FOR EXAMPLE, I bred a litter almost 7 years ago. The veterinarian of one of the pups I bred told his owner that I, the breeder should see him before she neutered him. This veterinarian breeds labs and felt that my puppy was worthy of being bred. Well, he was gorgeous... but also 90 lbs plus. When I questioned the owner, she was not interested in having the dog compete in any venue. He was handsome, but quite frankly looked like a blonde newfie. That is where I am coming from... not from a place to "diss" your dog... no one on the forum has seen your dog... including me.


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## goldprof

Just a random note: Any updates on this breeder? I noticed that several members have purchased dogs from SG but I do feel concerned looking at how many dogs they have. And the fact that they all seem to be located in outdoor kennels. I think I'd rather pay more for a puppy whose parents have spent most of their time socializing with people inside. But it has taken a few weeks of research for me to realize this. Now I just have to convince my husband that an additional $300-500 is worth it. 

The funny thing is that I've been in touch with several VA breeders (now deemed questionable based on their sloppy breeding practices) and they're all charging high prices, usually $1300-1400 minimum. The really good breeders charge $2000+.


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## xSLZx

We love our Sage <3 I've already gave my opinion of Seasons Gold. I'd go back to her.


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## Sally's Mom

As always, ask for CURRENT (within one year)eye clearances, OFA hip and elbow clearances, and cardiac clearances by a cardiologist at 12 months or greater. And then determine that there are 5 generations of said clearances behind the parents. All is verifiable on Orthopedic Foundation for Animals and K9DATA.COM Home Page.


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## conarsmom

We LOVE Seasons Gold, our pup has been an incredible addition to our family. He's well mannered, beautiful, easily trained and we attribute all of that to his lineage and breeding at Seasons' Gold. We too were at first taken back by the number of pups but, when you go to the kennels you can see how well they're taken care of and why they have such high class dogs. We're getting ready to get our second pup, we've moved across country but, are going to go back to get one from SG.


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## Sally's Mom

And I always say when purchasing a dog, do the parents have eye clearances within one year, are hip and elbow clearances done, and was the the heart checked by a cardiologist?


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## Sally's Mom

Oh, if that is true, go for it.....


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## Sally's Mom

Just looking at the website.. can't verify any of the bitches as only call names are accessible and they have THREE litters due in November.  Silly me, that speaks to quantity, not necessarily quality....


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## golden_eclipse

It takes me back every time, when people don't see something wrong with dogs sitting in a kennel all day long and never using his or her mind, or athletic body for anything but producing puppies. Sure your puppy is a nice pet and what not, but don't you care that maybe it's parents are just crate dogs and aren't even house trained, let alone able to prove themselves to the breed standard in some venue? Why should this practice be perpetuated? Can we be above making profit? Oh wait there are hobby breeders that charge the same as these commercial places, but treat their breeding dogs as social beings as they are. 

You know for the same price (although god forbid you have to wait) you can get a wonderfully bred puppy from parents that are excellent examples of the breed and treated as royalty by the breeder, AND has all the right clearances, and titles...Why not wait? 

To me a dog that is bred should be far more socialized than your average pet, let alone skilled or accomplished in at least one area that is a characteristic of the breed. They shouldn't be these wild un-socialized dogs that only know the inside of a kennel. JMO

Seasons gold is doing the breed no good, by mass producing puppies of marginal quality.


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## conarsmom

have you been to this kennel, or are you basing all of your dialogue on pictures from a web site? I think you would have a different opinion if you went to the kennel and by the way, they do have all their papers and the sires are international champs. I respect your opinions on the multiple litters but, I also find it hard to trust an opinion where you haven't seen anything in person.


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## golden_eclipse

Well I know they have 33 dogs on premises...I don't care if they have an international ch....that means close to nothing...no offense to people. But the MAJORITY of their dogs have done nothing...An international Ch, is one of the easiest titles to get, if you compare it to any AKC title, which is what everyone breeding AKC registered dogs should aim for. SO 2 out of 33 of their dogs have a title not even out of the registry they register their dogs with....really impressive? Answer me this, why not have 5-7 dogs and train them all to a really high level, and invest a lot of money into each one. Making each one a very special member of your family, and ensuring each one has a quality of life superior to just a "pet" or a kennel dog? Oh wait that's what hobby breeders do, and they charge the same amount of money this kennel does, but have far fewer dogs......so if you are good at math, you will see that this kennel has far more litters, invest far LESS money into their dogs, thus they are bringing in a profit. Thus they are exploited their dogs, and when they are done making puppies, their breeding dogs are sold. Contrary to that, a hobby breeder looses money, but the end result is that each family gets a superior family pet with a much greater chance of being healthy, well adjusted and long lived. I am all about respecting these dogs as social beings, and keeping 33 dogs, is not going to accomplish that, there is no way each one can be treated as an individual member of the family living in the house and being trained to a high level. Almost every picture of their dogs, is behind a fence or in a kennel, its sad to me. JMO, I know people are all about the instant gratification so its easy to rationalize these types of breeding practices, because it gets you what you want, and what you want NOW. But in reality there are some serious moral problems that many ignore.


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## allieutter

*praise for Seasons Gold*

We recently got a pup from Seasons Gold and it has been a wonderful experience. I'm not sure why they do not list the full names of their dogs on the website, but if you call the owner she will gladly give them to you and you can verify clearances and pedigrees. Our sire and dam both had all of their clearances and championship bloodlines. In speaking with her on the phone and in person, she is very much dedicated to only breeding healthy and clearanced dogs.
Yes, she does have quite a few dogs, but take a trip out there and I think that you will be impressed. She raises puppies full time so she is able to care for the amount of puppies that she produces. She does allow her puppies to go home between 6-8 weeks which I know some people have complained about, but realistically that's just a personal opinion. She is very careful to send you home with everything that you need for the puppy. I spent a lot of time researching breeders in the NC/SC/VA area and honestly, none of them were perfect (and some that were even less perfect were charging $2000 for their pups). 
Our puppy is healthy, beautiful, laid back, and very smart. We could not ask for anything better.


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## Sally's Mom

In the state of Maine... Selling a pup less than eight weeks of age is illegal..
..l


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## MikaTallulah

Sophie_Mom said:


> In my opinion, that is a lot of dogs living there! With 3 litters on the ground this summer, I can't imagine them having time (or enough hands!) to properly care for and socialize all of those puppies - let alone their own grown dogs! It just seems to be "too much" to me.


Per the website puppies leave the breeders at 6 to 8 wks of age.


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## Skippy03

dreaminggold said:


> i looked at their website before realizing that the thread was super old, but want to post for anyone else potentially looking at them. I'm not the most knowledgeable here, but is anyone else mortified that a 'breeder' would have a litter that she doesn't know the sire of?!! The website states that the second litter has been dna tested to try to figure it out!!



maury! Maury! Maury!


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## golden_eclipse

If you investigate K9data, this breeder CONSISTENTLY breeds under-aged dogs, I have seen multiple seasons gold dogs being bred a 12 months or 14 months, which in itself proves this breeder doesn't care about health, because you CAN NOT know the health of a breeding dog at 12 months, there is a significant chance that cleared hips or elbows will fail at 24 months. On top of letting puppies go home at 6 weeks.....(Our puppies are weaned at 4.5 weeks, seriously, I can't imagine letting them go at 6 weeks.) Also she makes her living off of breeding???? Obviously not a reputable place, as a reputable breeder will make a small profit or most often loose a significant amount of money. BIG RED FLAGS HERE!!!


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## Skippy03

This thread is why I appreciate this forum so much. For the lay person looking for a pet many websites look professional and seem to represent a reputable breeding program and even when the questions you may know to ask are answered appropriately its not until an experienced member who does some digging on your behalf can tell you truly what the "breeder" is about. I appreciate the time everyone on here takes to answer a question or concern as I personally very nearly purchased from a BYE and thanks to this place I made a much better choice. I wish people that ask for help or opinions would show a little appreciation for those who do some research for them or answer a question with an informed decision instead of being so defensive when they don't get the answer they want that is most convenient.

I hope everyone who obtains a golden has a long happy and healthy relationship with their dog. There no guarantees only better choices and just because one or ten people have a decent experience with a breeder it doesn't change the facts of ones breeding program that others are willing to spell out may be shady at best.

Woof.


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## xSLZx

We picked up Sage at 10 weeks. She was pretty much potty trained and everything.


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## golden_eclipse

Right but her breeders have bred multiple dogs who are not mature enough to be bred. A puppy should not be delivering puppies. Let alone the fact that they are not eligible for the recommended clearances yet, nor can you properly assess a dog's temperament, structure, or conformation till they reach 2 years of age. It doesn't matter how good one experience was, its the general ethics of a breeder that matter to prospective buyers.


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## hvgoldens4

MikaTallulah said:


> Per the website puppies leave the breeders at 6 to 8 wks of age.


 
I have been a breeder for a number of years. We raise all our puppies in the house because that is where all our adult dogs live, as well. 

In many states, it is against the law to sell a puppy before it is at least 7 weeks old and many states have changed to 8 weeks old. 

There is one reason and one reason only that a breeder would ever let a litter of puppies go home at 6 weeks old-WORK!!!!!!! and a lot of it!

Until the puppies are a few weeks old, mom is basically doing most of the work. The puppies still need to be handled every day, weighed and checked to make sure that all is as it should be and good breeders will do early neuro stimulation with the puppies. 

When the puppies get to be about 3 weeks old, a lot changes. Mom is spending less and less time with the puppies and that is when the breeder's work load begins to increase with raising the litter. Between 4-6 weeks old, the puppies are lovely little creatures. They are still learning to use all their motor skills really well and are now starting to play with each other and show an interest in toys. This is also the time period when weaning starts and so mom is spending less time with the puppies, which again increases the work load on the breeder.

By the time a litter of puppies is 6 weeks old, they become hell on wheels and there are multiples!!!  They are eating, pooping little machines who are now trying to figure out a pecking order amongst littermates and learning more about bite inhibition-and yes, they use each other to do this, as well as the people they are living with. They sometimes will have little puppy spats because someone bit too hard or someone else stole their toy. Hopefully, they are still spending some time with mom as mom also teaches them soooo many important lessons. Nails need to be trimmed, puppies need bathed, they need fed, you must clean up after them, they need fed and you must clean up after them again. Anyone noticing a pattern here????  

If you have owned a golden puppy in the past, you know how much work raising ONE puppy is-now multiply that by 8 or 10 or however many puppies are in the litter and what you get is a WHOLE lotta work on the breeder's part. If this is your first golden puppy, go to the part of the forum for puppies under a year old and read a few posts and you will figure out that raising a golden puppy properly is a lot of time and effort. This is the time that we spend with the puppies making sure that they have been exposed to various surfaces, been for rides in the car, they are taken outside(always supervised) so they can get used to the sights and sounds that are outdoors. We have different people come in and play with them and introduce them to all kinds of different household items and different toys to develop their motor skills more and to develop their minds. We do puppy aptitude testing with them and really get to know the puppy for their individual perosnality.

We do puppy updates with our puppies where I send out photos of the puppies every week so families can watch the puppies growing and changing. Puppy families wait for these religiously every Monday morning and they all seem to notice that as the puppies get older, the updates come later and later-in the middle of the night. WHY??? Because that is when the work with the puppies is done and I have time to sit down and answer emails and send the updates. This continues until the puppies leave for their new homes.

People always say they could never give the puppies up.......well, if you are raising a litter properly, you also cannot continue at the pace you are going at and continue to give each and every puppy the individual attention that they need. Puppies need SOOOO much at that 6-8 week time period. It is CRITICAL in the puppy's life. Why get a puppy from good breeding stock when it cannot ever live up to its potential because it isn't getting what the puppy needs from the breeder?

I tell all our puppy families that I have worked very hard to get them started on the right path with socializing them. They must continue with that work so that puppy can grow to be the dog it is meant to be. A puppy that is taken away from mom and its littermates at 6-8 weeks old is at a huge disadvantage to other puppies that are with their littermates and their mom. 

Puppies go thru certain windows of socialization and this time period is huge and yes, it is a tremendous amount of work. However, every puppy that leaves my home has my reputation riding on its little back. I have imprinted on those puppies and will be in their memory forever. Families who haven't lived in the area will come to visit and are often amazed that even after a number of years, the puppies still know who I am. That is because I have done my job. 

So, I am sorry, but any breeder that allows puppies to leave at that time period is just trying to minimize the amount of work that they must put into the puppies and you are short changing yourselves by getting a puppy at that age.

One other thing, I don't think that anyone can say how many dogs is too many for someone else. I have friends who have their individual limits set at 3-4 dogs because that is what they are comfortable with and feel they can meet their needs. I have others who have 7 or 8 and still others who have 10-12. It depends on so many factors and as long as the dogs are being well cared for and their needs are being met, I don't think there is any magic number that is "too many". 

I am not saying that I agree with the breeder having 33 dogs-I am just saying we have to be careful assigning a number.


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## vixen

I just looked at there puppy page aand they got FIVE litters on the ground, and 4 more planned for spring.

utter madness


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## Lpiperglen

I have been to many kennels and Kary does a great job at Seasons Gold. She only breeds dogs who have their clearances (hip, eye, elbow, heart) and very careful to insure breeding unrelated dogs. The dogs all have open, covered pens with lots of room, all of the water containers are full, they have shade and protective cover. The dogs are outside (which a dog should be), but also have totally accessible covered area and all dogs are put inside during the night and in bad weather, never kept in a crate all day. At times she may have a lot of puppies, but breeding dogs is just like trying to have a baby. A breeding doesn't take every time just like you don't become pregnante in one month - if your breed three bitches, none of them may become pregnante, yet all three might and you suddenly have 30 puppies. That is how nature works! All of Kary's puppies are seen by a vet and come with multiple certificates verifying their care. I would buy from Kary without hesitation! However, breeding two perfectly healthy dogs doesn't not guarantee a perfect puppy - it is like human beings. We all know two perfectly healthy parents who have a special needs child. That is how nature works from time to time for every living thing. But, Kary has great dogs and a wonderful, solid breeding program. People are welcome to visit her at any time and she encourages guests to come and socialize her puppies, unlike other kennels I have known where no one is allowed near the puppies.

Lpiperglen


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## solinvictus

hvgoldens4 wrote: 

"I tell all our puppy families that I have worked very hard to get them started on the right path with socializing them. They must continue with that work so that puppy can grow to be the dog it is meant to be. A puppy that is taken away from mom and its littermates at 6-8 weeks old is at a huge disadvantage to other puppies that are with their littermates and their mom. 

Puppies go thru certain windows of socialization and this time period is huge and yes, it is a tremendous amount of work. However, every puppy that leaves my home has "my reputation riding on its little back. I have imprinted on those puppies and will be in their memory forever. Families who haven't lived in the area will come to visit and are often amazed that even after a number of years, the puppies still know who I am. That is because I have done my job."

I could have copied your entire post as it was magnificient!!!!!

Thank you


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## Wyatt's mommy

xSLZx said:


> We picked up Sage at 10 weeks. She was pretty much potty trained and everything.


Sage is beautiful! Glad you actually met the breeder and litters and found a good match for yourself.


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## hvgoldens4

Lpiperglen said:


> I have been to many kennels and Kary does a great job at Seasons Gold. She only breeds dogs who have their clearances (hip, eye, elbow, heart) and very careful to insure breeding unrelated dogs. The dogs all have open, covered pens with lots of room, all of the water containers are full, they have shade and protective cover. The dogs are outside (which a dog should be),


 
The issue about clearances with her dogs has been discussed quite a bit. If you got a puppy with clearances, that's wonderful. However, not all her dogs have the clearances they should.

I would also like to know about your comment.....*The dogs are outside (which a dog should be) *

I do not agree with this at all and would fail to see why you would want to have a dog, if it was going to live outside and not be a member of the family. I am very interested in knowing why you feel a dog should be living outside. 

I am a breeder and none of our dogs live outside-ever.


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## Finn's Fan

Lpipergland, no, dogs should not live outside. Period, the end. If you got your dog from a high-volume breeder who keeps their "breeding stock" outside, then you found the right breeder for your perspective on dog ownership. Too bad for your companion animal.


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## Sally's Mom

My six are all house dogs. They are only outside to "do their business" or if we are outside with them. None of my dogs were meant to live in an outside kennel. They are pets, first and foremost.


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## Sally's Mom

And what HVGoldens said about raising pups is so true. Right about five weeks of age, they suddenly get to be a ton of work. I see so many BYB start to let them go at six weeks... Two years ago, I had a litter of ten.... At five weeks, I start to let them go outside (in x pens). So do the math, ten pups carried outside and carried back inside at least four to five times daily.


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## LibertyME

what you describe is a farm....if you substitute 'cows/calves' in for 'dogs/puppies' it would all still ring true...well, except the part about visiting - most farms wont let strangers just drop in and visit their young calves with immature immune systems...



Lpiperglen said:


> I have been to many kennels and Kary does a great job at Seasons Gold. She only breeds dogs who have their clearances (hip, eye, elbow, heart) and very careful to insure breeding unrelated dogs. The dogs all have open, covered pens with lots of room, all of the water containers are full, they have shade and protective cover. The dogs are outside (which a dog should be), but also have totally accessible covered area and all dogs are put inside during the night and in bad weather, never kept in a crate all day. At times she may have a lot of puppies, but breeding dogs is just like trying to have a baby. A breeding doesn't take every time just like you don't become pregnante in one month - if your breed three bitches, none of them may become pregnante, yet all three might and you suddenly have 30 puppies. That is how nature works! All of Kary's puppies are seen by a vet and come with multiple certificates verifying their care. I would buy from Kary without hesitation! However, breeding two perfectly healthy dogs doesn't not guarantee a perfect puppy - it is like human beings. We all know two perfectly healthy parents who have a special needs child. That is how nature works from time to time for every living thing. But, Kary has great dogs and a wonderful, solid breeding program. People are welcome to visit her at any time and she encourages guests to come and socialize her puppies, unlike other kennels I have known where no one is allowed near the puppies.
> 
> Lpiperglen


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## Selli-Belle

Lpiperglen said:


> I have been to many kennels and Kary does a great job at Seasons Gold. She only breeds dogs who have their clearances (hip, eye, elbow, heart) and very careful to insure breeding unrelated dogs.
> Lpiperglen


In addition to the whole living outside thing, there is so much more to finding the correct pairing of dogs than just making sure they are unrelated (by which do you mean they are inbred like mother son, sister brother breedings?).


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## Sally's Mom

Just quickly perusing k9 data... Heart clearances are practitioner ... Not ok in my book...and are there current CERF's?


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## nolefan

I don't know why I keep coming back to see the latest on this thread, it's like a train wreck. I am more amazed everytime I see some of these posters coming up with a new justification. I can't get past anyone thinking that it's no big deal for this breeder to have 3 and 4 litters at a time. 

Where do you think your pre-schooler would receive the best education? In a class with 6-10 other kids or in a class with 20-30 kids all begging for attention from the teacher? 

As with most of these threads, it's pretty apparent that the posters are either so defensive about their own dog and how they acquired him that they won't entertain the possibility that there are better ways of doing things. And then there are the posters who just plain have a low standard and are not interested in learning anything else. It's a fascinating study on human psychology.


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## Capt Jack

Jacks breeder is in Gatesville NC Indian Neck Kennels. since Jack was sort of a rescue I never met him personally but have spoken with him on the phone & he seems very professional even tho a little talkative. I called him to find out more about Jacks family history & see if he had any dogs a little older(ones he had taken back) I think he said he had a litter comming in April.I don't know if any are still available but the people I got Jack from said they paid $1200.00 for him.I have his numbers if you message me I'll send them to you.Others on here may know more about him.Jack is very healthy, & a good tempermeant.Don't even get me started on his looksLOL


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## Capt Jack

Didn't relize how old this post was OPPS!!!


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## AmberSunrise

Grins. I too don't know why I keep reading these train wrecks.

But, please do not paint all breeders with a brush that is far too narrow. Look at the big name breeders and you will see they often have more than 1 litter at a time. Mother Nature chooses when a female goes into season and many times, the stud has been lined up a year or more in advance, sometimes generations in advance. 

The main thing about excellent breeders is their skill, expertise and knowing their lines - not an artificial number of how many litters should be on the ground at one time. These breeders always have repeat homes, people waiting to see their next choices for matings and happy when selected to be a pups' new home. These are dogs bred to excel in multiple venues as well as being exceptional pets and the working & showing homes come back to these breeders time after time. 

I know nothing about the breeder being asked about in this thread so I cannot possibly judge them, but I do know several top quality breeders who do not fit in your narrow paint strokes. 





nolefan said:


> I don't know why I keep coming back to see the latest on this thread, it's like a train wreck. I am more amazed everytime I see some of these posters coming up with a new justification. I can't get past anyone thinking that it's no big deal for this breeder to have 3 and 4 litters at a time.
> 
> Where do you think your pre-schooler would receive the best education? In a class with 6-10 other kids or in a class with 20-30 kids all begging for attention from the teacher?
> 
> As with most of these threads, it's pretty apparent that the posters are either so defensive about their own dog and how they acquired him that they won't entertain the possibility that there are better ways of doing things. And then there are the posters who just plain have a low standard and are not interested in learning anything else. It's a fascinating study on human psychology.


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## nolefan

I am skeptical Sunrise, I just think the average pet owner who wants a great pet who is going to be part of the family,( living inside with us, going on beach trips, maybe we'll try our hand at obedience or agility - fun stuff, you know ) can do much better than a mass produced pup. 

If health clearances are equal, parents are nice dogs being shown in some success in just about any venue, I would rather have my puppy be raised in the house with a loving, small hobby breeder than any big name kennel who isn't giving the puppy I ultimately bring home lots of individual attention. 

We all want different things from our dogs, but for the average family dog those foundation weeks are worth so much that to me it negates a lot of the value of a highpower pedigree or kennel name if the puppies are not getting much individual attention. Those issues may be easily overcome for a serious dog person with years of training experience, but not so much for the average suburban family.

I'm planning on getting my next golden puppy from a small hobby breeder. When we first started talking last year, she covered my concerns about adequate socialization given that she is in a rural area. She will be taking her puppies on car rides, bringing kids in to play with them and doing a lot of extra work to expose them to new things. I'm delighted and I know there is no way I could expect this from someone who is responsible for 30 or 40 other puppies besides mine. 

There may very well be plenty of good breeders with a ton of money who have adequate kennel help to physically provide for 40 puppies at once. But my heart tells me that the smaller breeder who really knows her puppies is where I have the best chance to bring home the right puppy with me and it will be one who has been given a head start for the life he's going to be living.


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## hvgoldens4

nolefan said:


> I am skeptical Sunrise, I just think the average pet owner who wants a great pet who is going to be part of the family,( living inside with us, going on beach trips, maybe we'll try our hand at obedience or agility - fun stuff, you know ) can do much better than a mass produced pup.
> 
> If health clearances are equal, parents are nice dogs being shown in some success in just about any venue, I would rather have my puppy be raised in the house with a loving, small hobby breeder than any big name kennel who isn't giving the puppy I ultimately bring home lots of individual attention.
> 
> We all want different things from our dogs, but for the average family dog those foundation weeks are worth so much that to me it negates a lot of the value of a highpower pedigree or kennel name if the puppies are not getting much individual attention. Those issues may be easily overcome for a serious dog person with years of training experience, but not so much for the average suburban family.
> 
> I'm planning on getting my next golden puppy from a small hobby breeder. When we first started talking last year, she covered my concerns about adequate socialization given that she is in a rural area. She will be taking her puppies on car rides, bringing kids in to play with them and doing a lot of extra work to expose them to new things. I'm delighted and I know there is no way I could expect this from someone who is responsible for 30 or 40 other puppies besides mine.
> 
> There may very well be plenty of good breeders with a ton of money who have adequate kennel help to physically provide for 40 puppies at once. But my heart tells me that the smaller breeder who really knows her puppies is where I have the best chance to bring home the right puppy with me and it will be one who has been given a head start for the life he's going to be living.


 
In your last post it was 20-30 puppies now it is 30-40 puppies. I had posted on this subject not too long ago but here I go again! 

Not everyone is the same person. One dog may be more than enough for many people and some have 3 or 4 or 5 dogs. Please don't dictate to people how many dogs they can have, etc. These "numbers" are how the animal rights movement has taken hold in our country. Things start with a higher number and then get smaller and smaller and then all of a sudden it is a major PITA to be able to have a dog, period.

The same is true for breeders. I am not advocating for high volume breeders or against them but a person should have the right to get the dog that they want, from whom they want. Unfortunately, there is no way that hobby breeders can meet the demand for puppies and some of these people a hobby breeder wouldn't sell a puppy to-ie. knowing the dog will be living outside. 

Anyway, it is absolutely correct that the "dorm effect" happens with dogs just as it does in people. The girls do tend to cycle together. Unfortunately, all of our girls came in season together and one right after another a little over a month ago. I am not saying that this then means that all of them need to be bred. However, we did breed 2 of them. The first girl we were planning on breeding and she came in season first, then another one of the girls came in season 2 months early and she will soon be 5 years old and has had one litter. It would not be prudent to skip yet another heat cycle with her, so we chose to also breed her. This is not the first time that something like this has happened to us during the years we have been breeding. This also means that we probably will not have any other litters of puppies this year. 

I am not a kennel, I do not have outside help. I am at home during the day and we do have 2 children. We own 11 golden retrievers that age in range from 6 mos old to 15 years old. Anyone who has ever been to our home can attest to the care and attention that our dogs are given. Again, what is right for one is not right for another.

Personally, us possibly having 2 litters of puppies vs 1 litter of puppies will mean nothing as far as the care and socialization that is given to the puppies. I do not go to bed until everything that needs to be done for the puppies/dogs is done. If that means that I only get a couple hours sleep, so be it. Most of the hobby breeders that I know feel the same way. They are not large organizations or kennels that have untold numbers of dogs. They are in the home or have a small kennel.

A lot of being a breeder is also having the knowledge that it takes to properly whelp and raise a litter of puppies. It is a little more than just spending time with them-we start socializing our puppies when they are born with early neurological stimualtion so they can reach their genetic potential.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion and to purchase your next puppy from who you chose, I only ask that you give everyone else the same option and not paint every breeder who sometimes will wind up with more than 1 litter on the ground with the same brush.


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## Sally's Mom

But...Seasons Gold has six litters listed in a brief birth time from January to February. I don't care who you are...one person in that time span cannot begin to know the pups well...
I have had two litters at once, for all the reasons previously listed... Fortunately the total was 13, only slightly more than Emmie's litter of 10 two years ago.


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## hvgoldens4

Sally's Mom said:


> But...Seasons Gold has six litters listed in a brief birth time from January to February. I don't care who you are...one person in that time span cannot begin to know the pups well...
> I have had two litters at once, for all the reasons previously listed... Fortunately the total was 13, only slightly more than Emmie's litter of 10 two years ago.


You are absolutely 110% right, Sally's mom!! They cannot know their puppies and that would be why she lets them go home at 6 weeks before all the real work begins. 

I am not at all saying what she is doing is the correct way to be raising puppies, as well as being against the law in many states, by letting them leave at such a young age. I had posted previously in the thread about the time and work it takes to raise puppies properly. 

What I was posting about was that there are reasons that hobby breeders will sometimes have more than 1 litter. It does happen and for very legitimate reasons so I was asking that hobby breeders who occassionally may have 2 litters because of when girls come in season, etc not be painted with the same brush as a very high volume breeder who is letting puppies leave early because she cannot keep up with the work.


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## Sally's Mom

Jennifer, I do not think that anyone is questioning two litters at once. The one time I did it was because my bitch the year before reabsorbed all but one pup. Then when the due date came and went, and my husband did a c section to remove the dead pup, I thought, "Well then.". I loved the dog I bred her to, but,decided maybe the combo wasn't good. Sooo the next year, I bred her to a sure thing. I also bred her half sister. One had five pups and the other had eight pups... The issue is six litters at once... And what are these people striving for... Numbers or quality dogs?


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## hvgoldens4

Sally's Mom said:


> Jennifer, I do not think that anyone is questioning two litters at once. The one time I did it was because my bitch the year before reabsorbed all but one pup. Then when the due date came and went, and my husband did a c section to remove the dead pup, I thought, "Well then.". I loved the dog I bred her to, but,decided maybe the combo wasn't good. Sooo the next year, I bred her to a sure thing. I also bred her half sister. One had five pups and the other had eight pups... The issue is six litters at once... And what are these people striving for... Numbers or quality dogs?


 
Maybe I misunderstood what the poster was saying then......as for the Seasons Gold, I think this statement on her home page says it all......*We have been raising goldens since 1990. My dogs are full time for me. I used to be a high school art teacher 
but enjoy devoting 24 hours a day to them now.*

She is eating and paying the mortgage somehow!


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## Lpiperglen

You all need to simply read what is there. I said a dog should be outside, I never said a dog should live outside. My three were total house dogs, but enjoyed the outdoors ; however when kenneled had two room suites, flat screen televisions, two 2 hour sessions of play time. They wore coats in the Chicago winter, cooling jackets in the North Carolina heat. Only read the words that are there!


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## nolefan

hvgoldens4 said:


> In your last post it was 20-30 puppies now it is 30-40 puppies. I had posted on this subject not too long ago but here I go again!
> 
> Not everyone is the same person. One dog may be more than enough for many people and some have 3 or 4 or 5 dogs. Please don't dictate to people how many dogs they can have, etc.


Ummmm.... not sure where you got out of my post that I'm advocating dictating the number of animals someone should have? Because nothing could be further from the truth. 

My point was that if a kennel has 4 or 5 or 6 litters on the ground at once and the average litter is 8 puppies, there is a pretty good chance that there are going to be A LOT of puppies not receiving too much individual, quality attention. (Please forgive me my fluctuating numbers, I was attempting to be fair and recognize that some litters could be pretty small and not point out that while it might be a fluke for a golden to have a litter of 12 or 15 it does happen, those numbers could be MUCH higher.) I am also aware that an experienced breeder may have more than one litter from time to time and if he or she is truly dedicated, is capable of handling it without the puppies losing out on anything. 

I also stated in my post that I'm aware that we all want different things from our relationships with our dogs and have different levels of expertise. My point was that the average pet owner and their puppy need the best odds possible for a successful life together. I just don't believe that a mass produced puppy is being given the same advantages that a litter raised by someone who has time to know her puppies will give. 

So, you're right, when the time comes my baby will come from a breeder who has her heart and soul invested in the litter, who raises puppies in the house and has silly little nicknames for most of them because she knows their personalities. Not from someone who has so many puppies on the premises at once that they can barely spare time for the adult dogs (whether it's 5 or 50) much less handle each puppy on a daily basis. 

I am grateful for small hobby breeders so that I have a choice. I was trying to lay out the reasoning behind my choice. Maybe a person reading this thread while researching their first golden retriever puppy might see this and consider that there can be big benefits to going with a small breeder and that they shouldn't be lulled in to looking at a large kennel operation and think that it's automatically going to be ideal just because it appears to be so successful. I know people get dogs all the time from less than ideal situations and it works out great. That's a huge blessing. I've just (thought trial and error ) come to the conclusion that I always want to start out with the best odds possible.


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## sfbrabbitry

*Season's Gold*

I got a Golden from this breeder and absolutely love her! I explained what I was looking for and she sent me a picture of the one she thought fit what I wanted. Well boy she nailed it and I could not have asked for a better dog. 
I have 7 Goldens and she is by far the best one out of the group. Her dogs are shown, listed on K-9 data and does alot for the 4H/FFA kids. She does spend alot of time with the Goldens as do her kids and their friends. Kira came to San Diego a very well socialized baby. She is a therapy and service dog and started doing this at 10wks old
Kira is extremely healthy and standard size. She is now a year old, is a surf dog, dock jumping dog and will be shown here as soon as her handler is able to get back to it.
I have one that is a month younger from her and what a mess. She came from a small breeder(5 dogs). Bad mouth, bladder, learning ability, etc. She is a love bug though and did not want her to go back as did not want to think what they would do to her.
So I would and will get other Goldens from Season's Gold!


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## Nairb

sfbrabbitry said:


> I got a Golden from this breeder and absolutely love her! I explained what I was looking for and she sent me a picture of the one she thought fit what I wanted. Well boy she nailed it and I could not have asked for a better dog.
> I have 7 Goldens and she is by far the best one out of the group. Her dogs are shown, listed on K-9 data and does alot for the 4H/FFA kids. She does spend alot of time with the Goldens as do her kids and their friends. Kira came to San Diego a very well socialized baby. She is a therapy and service dog and started doing this at 10wks old
> Kira is extremely healthy and standard size. She is now a year old, is a surf dog, dock jumping dog and will be shown here as soon as her handler is able to get back to it.
> I have one that is a month younger from her and what a mess. She came from a small breeder(5 dogs). Bad mouth, bladder, learning ability, etc. She is a love bug though and did not want her to go back as did not want to think what they would do to her.
> So I would and will get other Goldens from Season's Gold!


I'm glad you're happy with your puppy.

Service dog, therapy dog, dock jumper, and soon to be show dog all at one year of age? Amazing. What is the registered name of your pup?


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## SheetsSM

And here is yet another example of underage breeding: Pedigree: Loni x Lilly

The dam was sold underage & unknowingly pregnant to a breeder in Texas. Based on past posts where the litter from this breeder had to be DNA tested I wonder why the breeder was so confident that the sire was Loni with no testing.


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## sfbrabbitry

*Has anyone adopted from Season's Gold*

I got our female Kira 3 yrs ago flown to me to San diego, Ca. Absolutely the best dog ever! I have 3 Goldens from another breeder and so wish I had found Season's Gold sooner.
If I did not have so many right now I would get another from season's in a heart beat!!!


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## Prism Goldens

For me, the lack of cardiologist clearances and the many, many OFA EYE exams done on breeding animals at 3,4,6 months old- that is reason to look elsewhere. I looked at OFA on the bitches pages, and the oldest girl eye exam I found was 18 months... I may have missed one or two, there are an abundance of breeding bitches on the website.


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## Lkngrl

*Seasons Gold - NC Breeder*

I purchased my golden from Kary 16 years ago and had to put him to sleep at the age of 15. He lived a very good life and never gave me any health issues other than seasonal allergies. I reached out to Kary about 2 months ago asking her if I could help her around the kennel with the goldens in my down time. I love the breed and enjoy their companionship. She said she would love for me to visit and help out anytime. Since then I have popped up and given many dogs baths, which they LOVE! Never, not once, have I witnessed any wrong doing. Her dogs have very much room to run in their kennels, which stay maintained and cleaned. They are kept inside the barn at night. They all are fed and given clean water throughout the day. Each dog I have bathed has been in beautiful shape, no obvious issues at all. I am not a vet but if I saw something wrong I would help the dog. Kary loves all of her dogs, she knows first hand every detail about each of them. I believe she has a lot of dogs but they all have plenty of space and they are all well kept. I've seen many times, people come in and do 1 on 1 training and grooming with her dogs. I personally would never get a dog from anyone else. My experience with Kary and her goldens have been 1st class. This is her life and I think it is very wrong for anyone to pass judgement on her or her dogs and facility without the trip to see for yourself first hand. That's my experience and I hope this new post will paint a true picture for someone interested in buying a golden. Karys goldens are absolutely magnificent dogs.


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## usually lurking

Lkngrl said:


> My experience with Kary and her goldens have been 1st class. This is her life and I think it is very wrong for anyone to pass judgement on her or her dogs and facility without the trip to see for yourself first hand. That's my experience and I hope this new post will paint a true picture for someone interested in buying a golden.


I kind of thought that the clearances issue, underage breeding, lack of "in house" time, lack of actual involvement in any kind of events, multiple litters at once, and sheer number of kenneled dogs painted a very clear picture of what not to do as a breeder, as I browsed through this very old thread that you helpfully resurrected. I almost had to pull out some popcorn reading through this. I just couldn't look away, kind of like when there's a tornado bearing down on you, yet you forego all sanity and self-preservation to watch nature at its most terrifying.


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## ewokzzz

I am going to resurrect this old thread. 
I've been seeking a breeder in NC and Season's Gold keeps popping back up on my list of viable options. I am consistently impressed me with the health clearances (which are recent btw), the willingness to entertain my questions when I contact them, and the transparency of their operation.
Frankly it's ridiculous that people in this thread look down upon them for turning a profit, but then also say "It's a full time job to raise puppies!" Clearly for Kary it is both a passion and a livelihood and I see nothing wrong with that. The idea that it's somehow not okay for them to make money is just false. Let's just go ahead and admit that all breeders make money and that it's not inherently unethical to make money IF you are doing everything else in an ethical manner. 
I know this thread is old, but from what I can tell, all of the health clearances are up to date on each of the dogs, and there is no breeding done when a dog is less than 2 years old. 
The volume is somewhat alarming at first, but they clearly have a staff that tends to all of the dogs - they are happy to have visitors and prove that the dogs are all well-cared for. 
I have personally reached out to a lot of people who have purchased dogs from SG and they all have nothing but amazing things to say about the experience. 
I am very much considering getting my next dog from here. Honestly the simple fact that the owner was gracious, patient, and thorough when I contacted her to ask about the process, is a lot more than I can say about most other breeders I've attempted to get a hold of.


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## Prism Goldens

The two bitches w litters on the ground now have P-clearances on their hearts. That's inadequate. In fact, echos have just this week been determined to be 'what it takes' by OFA. So she's several levels below an echo on the heart clearances. I was happy to see current eyes and the ortho clearances, the eyes being current are an improvement. But until the heart clearances are correct ( and C- clearances have been the required type for many, many years- like, more than 20) this breeder won't be considered good by a Golden preservationist who cares for the puppy people who take their pups home and have to live with the consequences of choices the breeder made.


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