# What am I doing wrong? (Long, but please help)



## Kylie (Feb 16, 2013)

Have you talked to the breeder about this? (If I remember correctly Shala is an Abby x Tito pup right?) I know it's hard, but it WILL get better.


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## Kylie (Feb 16, 2013)

Have you tried a kong filled with peanut butter?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Separation issues are very common in young puppies. Remember, she is still a baby. She is still getting over being yanked from her home, her human family, her mom, her littermates, everything she once knew. 
They adapt by centering on the new human. And, since it's just you and her, the bond is very, very strong. You are everything to her. As she gets older and more secure, it really will get better. I know a few people on here with new puppies had the same problem, I'm hoping they will chime in here.
I think that the key, however, is your statement that it's easier on her if you actually leave the house. 
Dogs do things because it works. If it doesn't work, they quit doing it.
So Shala has already learned that no matter how much of a hissy fit she throws if you've left the house, it doesn't bring you back. It doesn't work, so she settles down as soon as she realizes that you really and truly are gone for a while.
But the opposite is true if you are still in the house. If she throws a tantrum, you come back. 
It's believed that that's why dogs bark at the mailman, delivery man, etc. even if the guy comes every day. The dog barks and the guy leaves! It worked!! So they continue to do it. Now the dog has no way of knowing that the mailman was, having delivered the mail, planning to leave anyway. In doggy logic, he barked, the guy left, voila! 
So Shala knows you are still in the house, and she knows if she throws a tantrum, you will come back. She has no way of knowing that you are coming back anyway because you finished whatever took you away from her for the moment, in doggy logic, she threw a tantrum, you returned, and now the behavior is reinforced. It doesn't matter that you make her quiet down before you get her out of the ex-pen, the point is that you came back, which is what she really wanted.
Learned behavior is hard to un-learn, especially when the reward is SO great (having you back!) . 
I'm not really sure what the solution is, but I'm pretty sure that's what the problem is, so maybe we can put our collective forum heads together and come up with some ideas to help you and Shala get past this.


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## Jessie'sGirl (Aug 30, 2010)

I don't have the answer but it certainly sounds like you are doing everything possible to remedy the situation. 
I think some pups are just inherently needier than others. This will ease over time.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Here's a little short term help that I came across in one of my books....it's not a *fix* but it might help a little for now.
I know she knows sit and down. 
When you are working with her on them, work on distancing yourself from her. So tell her sit, tell her STAY, back up a couple of feet, immediately return, give her a treat, and tell her what a good girl she is. Slowly build up to being able to be several feet away from her. This is a GAME, not you leaving! Build to where you can VERY briefly disappear from her sight while she is doing her sit/stay or her down/stay, and then calmly return to her, give her a treat, and tell her she's a good girl.
The idea is to build her confidence that she's okay when you're gone, and when you come back you are very pleased at what a good girl she's being. You came back because she was doing what you asked her to do, not because she was throwing a tantrum and demanding your return.
Slow, baby steps. 
Just curious, if you need to go into the bathroom or another room, what happens if you put her in her crate first?


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

I agree with Hotel4Dogs (Barb) on both the reason behind the problem and a way to fix it. 

Bear was never as bad as Shala sounds but we also crated him for ~1 hour a few times a day with us in sight but not close. He would carry on for 20 minutes then quiet down. I would tell him how good he was for being quiet. I would walk up and give him treats then walk away. 

Do you think hiding a loud ticking clock nearby would help settle her? 

I also tell Bear (after he understood quiet = good) if he carried on for 5 minutes to "knock it off" and he would shut up so fast. 


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Have you crated her,and left the house? Start with you going out for 10 minutes,then increase the time.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

As Barb pointed out, you're her whole world and she's very attached to you right off the bat. And you are not doing anything wrong. Nothing. It's her personality, not your failings, ok? I think you need to keep doing what you're doing. 

You're finding out that your girl is maybe a little more persistent and stubborn than you thought she would be. You may need to choose your battles a bit if this is driving you crazy. For instance, she absolutely must stay in her crate first thing in the morning while you potty and put your contacts in whatever. It's hard but she must do this because you can't have her making an accident. But maybe while you shower and put your makeup on, you babygate the door and have some special chew toys that she only gets in the bathroom. Cover the tiles or put some vaseline and tobasco on the knobs she's chewing. This is a compromise I have made. Ellie is extremely attached to me. Her crate is seriously 18" from my side of the bed. She just can't touch me and the minute she wakes in the morning, she starts whining like a baby until I make eye contact with her. Then she will wait a couple minutes and start whining again. She whines all thru my potty and contacts routine until I release her and Mack and then she acts like we've been apart for a week.

My puppies are crated in our kitchen during mealtime. Mack HATED that when he was a puppy. Even though the crate is in full view of the table and only 15 feet away, he squalled in there for weeks. Sometimes a frozen stuffed kong would distract him and sometimes not. I took to feeding both he and Ellie during our sitdown time so that the food would occupy them. It took a long time for him to accept this set up. Weeks. Ellie still whines pitifully every now and then during our mealtime because she's still crated. She just wants to be touching me. 

Hang in there, keep doing what you're doing, and realize that your little puff ball may look soft and sweet, but she has a will of iron. I believe Barb is correct and when you leave she will settle and be fine. It's just when she knows you're so close that she has a fit. She's just not going to give up while there's a shred of hope that you may come and get her. It is totally her personality. 

As soon as her potty training has progressed so that you know she doesn't have to be crated continuously, maybe you want to assess the pen situation. Pen her when you have to for your sanity and her safety but don't pen her just to prove a point. Does that make sense? She's going to learn to accept the crate because she has to when you're gone, so she needs to learn to deal with it. But for her real life with you, she isn't going to be crated much during waking hours as an adult. I would just hang in there, keep doing what you're doing. Work on it every day as you have, but don't work on it so much that it's making you nuts. She'll be potty trained and more trustworthy soon and you will be past this stage if you can just get through a couple more weeks.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

goldensrbest said:


> Have you crated her,and left the house? Start with you going out for 10 minutes,then increase the time.


Leaving the house is not the issue. It's when I am home. 



hotel4dogs said:


> Here's a little short term help that I came across in one of my books....it's not a *fix* but it might help a little for now.
> I know she knows sit and down.
> When you are working with her on them, work on distancing yourself from her. So tell her sit, tell her STAY, back up a couple of feet, immediately return, give her a treat, and tell her what a good girl she is. Slowly build up to being able to be several feet away from her. This is a GAME, not you leaving! Build to where you can VERY briefly disappear from her sight while she is doing her sit/stay or her down/stay, and then calmly return to her, give her a treat, and tell her she's a good girl.
> The idea is to build her confidence that she's okay when you're gone, and when you come back you are very pleased at what a good girl she's being. You came back because she was doing what you asked her to do, not because she was throwing a tantrum and demanding your return.
> ...


I haven't tried crating her; I feel like, at least in the x-pen, she has space and toys. Maybe I should try this. 

I guess you are right that, in a way, I am reinforcing it. Because I took her for a walk just a little while ago - she peed and pooped, met lots of people. I came back in because I wanted to shower before taking her to the park to run around. I put her in the x-pen, and she whined and quickly worked up to all out ear-piercing barking, the entire time I was in the shower. When I got out, I looked around the doorway and she was panting and had a wild look in her eyes. As soon as she saw me, she visibly calmed and sat down. REINFORCED. But, I finished in the shower, I had to come out. When she was calm and sitting, I said, "good calm, good girl." But I did not go and pat her. She started to bark again. It is ear-piercing and enough to almost have me in tears. I am actually sitting here at the computer to put off going and drying my hair, because she will start up again. 

I imagine if I put her in the crate, she would just do the same, in the smaller area. She is in the x-pen primarily because she would be chewing everything in sight and if I am in the shower, I can't be watching her. She also went ballistic earlier this morning when I was cleaning the bathroom and the kitchen, while I swiffered around the house and washed the floors. I completely ignored her - but she never stopped. 

*Kristy: *She DOES stay in the crate first thing while I go to the bathroom and get dressed to take her out - for exactly as you say - if I let her out, she might pee. She's been holding it so well all night. I might have to try hot sauce on the bathroom fixtures. Anything I would use to cover the floor, she would scratch and chew and destroy. The floor-scratching is a little disturbing to me. It's like a OCD behaviour and nothing will stop it. I have tried clapping - it doesn't even register. I have tried holding her paws gently and saying aah aah, no scratching - and she just starts again when I let go. She has made some huge scratched patches on the hardwood, and she has marked up the bathroom tile. She also does it in the crate (on the sides of the crate, as well as the floor), and on the couch when she is up lying with me. She does it right in front of me, or when I'm not there. 

Really, she is not being x-penned for accidents so much as chewing right now. She chews on all the furniture, and as much as I have puppy-proofed, I can't remove furniture. 

Here is the area she is in when she is going ballistic. It's not like it's a tiny crate. It is a huge crate - which is open to an x-pen. She has access to the crate and the x-pen and all her toys.


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## KeaColorado (Jan 2, 2013)

Sorry if you said this and I missed it, but have you tried putting her in just the crate (not open to x pen) and cover it with a blanket? Maybe a smaller space would help her feel more secure.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

I am sorry you're having such a hard time. I would be frustrated with ear-piercing screaming too. I am wondering if you could start rotating her toys so when you crate her and do chores she has something new to chew or play with that she hasn't seen in a while? A bully stick just for your shower time? A kong with yogurt and green beans just for chores? During your chore time can you put on head phones and listen to music to give yourself a break from the squalling? 

I'm curious, she's scratching the tiles even if you are in the bathroom with her, standing and doing your hair? Even with toys in there? I confess I am taken aback if that is the case. I can remember trying to go to my closet and leaving Ellie behind the gate in the bathroom and her flinging herself against the gate and trying to climb over because she didn't want to have me out of sight. She didn't want a barrier between us. Wanted freedom. But she was generally content if I was in the bathroom with her.

Have you tried keeping her on a leash attached to your waist while you do things so that she is close by and you are able to correct her if she starts chewing furniture? 

I will admit that I am surprised that she does the floor scratching when you are sitting right there and interacting with her. Have you been able to figure out any pattern or trigger at all? 

My last question is how much of her time is spent in the Ex pen? Is it a case of, you all are home and if you're not playing with her, she's in her pen? I'm trying to get a feel for how much time during the day you're expecting her to play by herself when she's not sleeping. Please don't take that as criticism, I don't know how else to word it. 

I am just trying to think through my experiences and remember our schedules etc. I had an easier time with Ellie because even though she wants to be with me constantly, she didn't chew furniture much (although I do need some new blinds on my windows and my window sills in the kitchen are pretty sad on the corners) and she had Mack to play with. I was able to sit at the table and go thru email while she and Mack played bitey face on the floor. It allowed her to be free with us but occupied. I can see that although Shala is normal with the fits, she is more demanding on your time and attention than Ellie was with me. A small puppy is like having a toddler, they're awake you can't watch t.v. or read a book, they are demanding. She does have to learn to entertain herself. I think you can't sacrifice your floors and she has to be crated. I am pretty certain that both Mack and Ellie would not have been content to be alone in the ex pen either. 



Sweet Girl said:


> *Kristy: *She DOES stay in the crate first thing while I go to the bathroom and get dressed to take her out - for exactly as you say - if I let her out, she might pee. She's been holding it so well all night. I might have to try hot sauce on the bathroom fixtures. Anything I would use to cover the floor, she would scratch and chew and destroy. The floor-scratching is a little disturbing to me. It's like a OCD behaviour and nothing will stop it. I have tried clapping - it doesn't even register. I have tried holding her paws gently and saying aah aah, no scratching - and she just starts again when I let go. She has made some huge scratched patches on the hardwood, and she has marked up the bathroom tile. She also does it in the crate (on the sides of the crate, as well as the floor), and on the couch when she is up lying with me. She does it right in front of me, or when I'm not there.
> 
> Really, she is not being x-penned for accidents so much as chewing right now. She chews on all the furniture, and as much as I have puppy-proofed, I can't remove furniture.
> 
> Here is the area she is in when she is going ballistic. It's not like it's a tiny crate. It is a huge crate - which is open to an x-pen. She has access to the crate and the x-pen and all her toys.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

I may be way off, but I think a cozy crate may work better, and that the open floor plan is working against you. I would situate her where she cannot see you coming in and out of every room. Molly only had one crate, no ex-pen. It was in the bedroom where she couldn't see me if I weren't in the room. Crate = alone/quiet/nap time. Molly almost always fell asleep right away whenever I put her in her crate. Could it be that the ex-pen is a "free play" area for Shala (where you also spend time in) and she doesn't know what to do with herself when you're not there? Is it possible she could calm down more in a comfy and cozy crate away from the action of the house?


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I'm sorry you are having these issues. I'm here to tell you that this too shall pass! Here are some things I did with our little whimperer Yogi when he was tiny:

1. I used a sliplead and I attached one of those big clips on the handle so when I went into different rooms I'd take him with me and sit him down (on a mat pad) and clip him to a drawer or furniture handle while I worked. He usually settled down with a toy or a nylabone and entertained himself. 

2. When I vacuumed I actually held him. This serves two purposes- he gets accustomed to the machine and the noise and it was a way to supervise while I moved about. To this day when I start the cleaner he comes running and walks around with me. 

3. I used x-pens from time to time when I couldn't watch him and thought it was time for him to potty even though I just took him out and he wouldn't do it. I wanted to confine him just in case. He seemed to prefer the x-pen to the crate. 

3. Barb's advice is sound and good. I did the training exercise where I sat him on a mat, told him stay and would go a distance and toss a treat while saying stay. Pretty soon I could go to the end of the room, but not around the corner. With time I was able to leave the room, but that didn't happen for a while. 

4. Training Go To Your Spot also works. Teach the spot by having her touch the mat and treating, then chaining the command to down stay on the spot, and treating. Yogi learned this later on, not immediately. 

She is still a baby so I suspect you will have a lot more crying episodes. Yogi still whimpers from time to time when he doesn't know where I am! 

By the way, though not entirely your issue- I was crating Yogi in the early mornings while I walked Toby alone, but Yogi was not liking going back in the crate so soon after waking up. Finally, when we didn't need xpens anymore, I opened them up and started using them like barricades, to keep him in our family room where we have security cameras. The first day I let him stay out in that room I turned on the camera- there was a ton of whimpering and pacing and I only took Toby around the block at first! I increased the time daily and pretty soon he'd make one lap around the room, then settle in and nap. They do eventually settle down!


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Sorry I misunderstood your post, earlier.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

KeaColorado said:


> Sorry if you said this and I missed it, but have you tried putting her in just the crate (not open to x pen) and cover it with a blanket? Maybe a smaller space would help her feel more secure.





Vhuynh2 said:


> I may be way off, but I think a cozy crate may work better, and that the open floor plan is working against you. I would situate her where she cannot see you coming in and out of every room. Molly only had one crate, no ex-pen. It was in the bedroom where she couldn't see me if I weren't in the room. Crate = alone/quiet/nap time. Molly almost always fell asleep right away whenever I put her in her crate. Could it be that the ex-pen is a "free play" area for Shala (where you also spend time in) and she doesn't know what to do with herself when you're not there? Is it possible she could calm down more in a comfy and cozy crate away from the action of the house?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


These are great suggestions and make a TON of sense. Sadly, from Day 1, she hated her cozier, plastic crate. That was what we started with. I eventually moved that one in to my room for sleeping at night, and got the bigger wire one for daytime. She seems much happier with the daytime one, and she will even go into it on her own. 

I'm not even crating her when this screaming and crying happens. She is simply in the x-pen. She can be sleeping peacefully, and if she hears me get up and go in another room, she starts to whine and cry, and while she sometimes will re-settle, other times, like this morning, she works herself up into a crazy, barking fiend.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I would try doing using the crate if she's calmer in there. Also try covering it. Put a WONDERFUL treat into the crate (peanut butter bone, bully stick ... whatever she really loves). I'd also feed all meals in the crate and aim for a few mins of quiet once she's finished before you go back into the room to take her out.

If I'm sure it's a tantrum and not a debilitating anxiety (which, if she's ok when you leave, I'd say it's more tantrum), I'll also sometimes add an aversive of --- first bit of tantrum = I cover the crate. If the tantrum continues, I say nothing but whack the crate to make a startling noise. I've never had it make a dog become afraid of the crate (which is what people often ask), but it does seem to help them learn to think twice about settling down vs. staging a (very loud!) formal protest. I live in an apartment, so when I raised both my dogs here, as puppies, I had to be very aware of barking and didn't have the ability to always wait it out. (Again, if I thought it was more separation anxiety vs. tantrum anxiety, I'd have handled it differently.)

You're wise to teach this lesson now -- i.e. that you, dog, won't always be right with me, even if we're both home. It's a hard lesson for dogs to learn -- goes against what they generally believe in the world -- but it's a fact of life in a human world and holding the line and teaching it to your dog as a pup is a good way to help prevent true separation stress issues later in life.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

Along with the obligatory "this too shall pass", I just wanted to comment as someone with a dog who has _severe_ separation anxiety. "Wait" and "Stay" need to be almost at the top of your list of things to teach ASAP. I would place this above almost anything else other than a default sit and housebreaking. You can not start working on off leash/uncrated out of sight exercises without a solid wait and stay and you will need those controlled out of sight exercises on a regular basis with your girl being so bonded to you. Playing hide and go seek is ultimately what broke Iorek of his velcro dog behavior (now I rarely see him during the day unless I go find him)... it turned me being out of sight into a fun and positive thing, but a solid stay/wait is crucial for this. It's also so hard to not reinforce this behavior, so it's important to have a command you can give before the escalation even starts. 

You guys can do this!! We have made tremendous progress with Iorek's separation anxiety and it has been a _long_ journey so if Shala does continue to have issues or you feel it's escalating beyond normal puppy-anxiety, feel free to shoot me a PM and I'd be happy to share some of the things we've found successful and some things that were ultimately unhelpful.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Sweet Girl said:


> I'm not even crating her when this screaming and crying happens. She is simply in the x-pen. She can be sleeping peacefully, and if she hears me get up and go in another room, she starts to whine and cry, and while she sometimes will re-settle, other times, like this morning, she works herself up into a crazy, barking fiend.


As you hear that she's working herself up, can you - from another room, or around the corner where she can't see you -- suddenly make some kind of loud noise? Slam a door, clang a pot ... *something* to sort of startle her into being quiet? Then you can, while still out of sight, praise her for being quiet, and after a tad longer, calmly appear close enough to toss a treat to her in the x-pen and then step out of sight again.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

nolefan said:


> I am sorry you're having such a hard time. I would be frustrated with ear-piercing screaming too. I am wondering if you could start rotating her toys so when you crate her and do chores she has something new to chew or play with that she hasn't seen in a while? A bully stick just for your shower time? A kong with yogurt and green beans just for chores? During your chore time can you put on head phones and listen to music to give yourself a break from the squalling?


I have never rotated toys, maybe that will help. I am too scared to give her anything but her own food at this point. She now has diarrhea for the THIRD time. It started around noon today - we were out at the park, and I didn't think much of it - thought it was just soft from running and playing. I put her into the crate for a nap when I got home, went to the grocery store, and when I came home, there was a big puddle of diarrhea in the crate. Poor thing.  I took her out again, and she had it for a third time. 

So - one thing I know. We are done with Fromm. It is clearly too rich. I am going to switch her to a chicken-based food, probably Acana.



nolefan said:


> I'm curious, she's scratching the tiles even if you are in the bathroom with her, standing and doing your hair? Even with toys in there? I confess I am taken aback if that is the case. I can remember trying to go to my closet and leaving Ellie behind the gate in the bathroom and her flinging herself against the gate and trying to climb over because she didn't want to have me out of sight. She didn't want a barrier between us. Wanted freedom. But she was generally content if I was in the bathroom with her.
> 
> Have you tried keeping her on a leash attached to your waist while you do things so that she is close by and you are able to correct her if she starts chewing furniture?
> 
> I will admit that I am surprised that she does the floor scratching when you are sitting right there and interacting with her. Have you been able to figure out any pattern or trigger at all?


The floor scratching is really perplexing to me. It does not seem to be triggered by anything. She does it if I'm there, if I'm not, in the x-pen, in the kitchen, in the bathroom, the crate. I try to distract her with a toy, and she just wants to scratchscratchscratch (picture a gerbil in the corner of a cage). 



nolefan said:


> My last question is how much of her time is spent in the Ex pen? Is it a case of, you all are home and if you're not playing with her, she's in her pen? I'm trying to get a feel for how much time during the day you're expecting her to play by herself when she's not sleeping. Please don't take that as criticism, I don't know how else to word it.


She is in the x-pen anytime I am home and in the living/dining area (it pretty much takes up the whole room with the furniture pushed aside. Like, I can't walk across the room without walking through it). I play with her in it, and she is also realy good at playing with her own toys in it, and napping in it. She actually is REALLY good at playing by herself - as long as I am in the room. If I leave, she goes nuts. She is in it because there are no temptations for chewing - other than her toys. 

I bring her into the kitchen if I am cooking, and I feel like dealing with the scratching (which is seriously making me crazy). I would let her come into the bathroom, but the scratching is so bad in there, I just can't. Plus she goes after the fixtures and chews the side of the vanity. They've all been sprayed with Bitter Yuck. [/QUOTE]


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

ah she is a dickens, isn't she??
The floor scratching is perplexing. Have you asked Jane about it? Did she do it there, too, or only since coming home?
Has it gotten more frequent? Less frequent? How often does she do it? Where has she been right before?


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Dallas Gold said:


> I'm sorry you are having these issues. I'm here to tell you that this too shall pass! Here are some things I did with our little whimperer Yogi when he was tiny:
> 
> 1. I used a sliplead and I attached one of those big clips on the handle so when I went into different rooms I'd take him with me and sit him down (on a mat pad) and clip him to a drawer or furniture handle while I worked. He usually settled down with a toy or a nylabone and entertained himself.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Anne. Here's a challenge - if I were to tether her to me, I fear she would chew anything in her reach. She pulls the tea towels down from the oven handle, she chews the bottom of the vanity in the bathroom, she chews the legs of the dining room table and the chair rungs... it's what prompted me to start putting her in the x-pen. There was just too much temptation around - all the furniture legs, etc. 

I hate to just keep sounding negative on everything - but I also know her capabilities. I don't feel she is ready for stay yet. I have tried a couple times, but she gets so easily distracted. If I sat her on a mat, she would attack and chew the mat. 

I will definitely do what you suggest for vaccuuming. I have been wondering how I was going to do it - which is why I have only been Swiffering thus far.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

FlyingQuizini said:


> I would try doing using the crate if she's calmer in there. Also try covering it. Put a WONDERFUL treat into the crate (peanut butter bone, bully stick ... whatever she really loves). I'd also feed all meals in the crate and aim for a few mins of quiet once she's finished before you go back into the room to take her out.
> 
> If I'm sure it's a tantrum and not a debilitating anxiety (which, if she's ok when you leave, I'd say it's more tantrum), I'll also sometimes add an aversive of --- first bit of tantrum = I cover the crate. If the tantrum continues, I say nothing but whack the crate to make a startling noise. I've never had it make a dog become afraid of the crate (which is what people often ask), but it does seem to help them learn to think twice about settling down vs. staging a (very loud!) formal protest. I live in an apartment, so when I raised both my dogs here, as puppies, I had to be very aware of barking and didn't have the ability to always wait it out. (Again, if I thought it was more separation anxiety vs. tantrum anxiety, I'd have handled it differently.)
> 
> You're wise to teach this lesson now -- i.e. that you, dog, won't always be right with me, even if we're both home. It's a hard lesson for dogs to learn -- goes against what they generally believe in the world -- but it's a fact of life in a human world and holding the line and teaching it to your dog as a pup is a good way to help prevent true separation stress issues later in life.





FlyingQuizini said:


> As you hear that she's working herself up, can you - from another room, or around the corner where she can't see you -- suddenly make some kind of loud noise? Slam a door, clang a pot ... *something* to sort of startle her into being quiet? Then you can, while still out of sight, praise her for being quiet, and after a tad longer, calmly appear close enough to toss a treat to her in the x-pen and then step out of sight again.


I have tried stuffed Kongs. They frustrated the heck out of her and once, she got so angry, she was barking at it, and walked over and peed right in front of me. End of stuffed Kongs. And as for other treats, until the diarrhea stops, I can't give her anything else. 

It sounds like I should put her into the crate for longer leaves - like taking a shower, etc. Maybe even going to the bathroom. 

*** Should I put her in the nighttime crate in my bedroom or the wire daytime crate?

I have tried the loud noises, too. Doesn't even phase her. I have tried clapping really loudly both for the barking hysterics and the floor scratching. Nothing. When she scratches the floor inside the x-pen, I usually kick the side of the pen, which startles her, and then she goes back to scratching.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

hotel4dogs said:


> ah she is a dickens, isn't she??
> The floor scratching is perplexing. Have you asked Jane about it? Did she do it there, too, or only since coming home?
> Has it gotten more frequent? Less frequent? How often does she do it? Where has she been right before?


She did do it at Jane's - we both saw it. I asked Jane if she did it a lot - I think (and Jane can correct me if I am wrong) it was the first she saw it. She was doing it under the table in the dining room, on Jane's hardwood. 

She does it several times a day - more in the kitchen and bathroom. She also scratches the AC vent like a mad woman. 

I would say, she does it as much as she did it when she first came home. That very first night, she did it several times, and then I heard her scratching up a storm in the crate.

It is extremely perplexing - and really upsetting. She can just be lying there calmly, or playing with a toy - and she starts.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

Can you recruit a friend to come over and stand on a leash while you practice walking out of the room? Does she react as badly if there is someone else with her? If she reacts just as much, I feel like having an extra set of hands/eyes could be very helpful.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Molly used to scratch a lot at the bottom of a closet door where it meets the floor. No idea why, but all I could do was bitter apple the area and it worked. It could be because she would get her face really close to where she liked to scratch. 


Sent from Petguide.com App


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

And she just had liquid diarrhea again. Fourth time today. At least I am getting to know her signs, and I got her outside. So on top of everything else, she is sick again.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Mirinde said:


> Can you recruit a friend to come over and stand on a leash while you practice walking out of the room? Does she react as badly if there is someone else with her? If she reacts just as much, I feel like having an extra set of hands/eyes could be very helpful.


No - I think she would be fine if someone else were there. I've had people over and she doesn't freak out if I leave the room. She's distracted, playing.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Vhuynh2 said:


> Molly used to scratch a lot at the bottom of a closet door where it meets the floor. No idea why, but all I could do was bitter apple the area and it worked. It could be because she would get her face really close to where she liked to scratch.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


I will try spraying Bitter Yuck on the floors when she scratches. I will have little puddles of it around my house, but I am willing to try anything.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

You will make it,i promise, it will all pass, someday, she is just so happy your her mommy,she wants to be with you all the time!!!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Sweet Girl said:


> She did do it at Jane's - we both saw it. I asked Jane if she did it a lot - I think (and Jane can correct me if I am wrong) it was the first she saw it. She was doing it under the table in the dining room, on Jane's hardwood.
> 
> She does it several times a day - more in the kitchen and bathroom. She also scratches the AC vent like a mad woman.
> 
> ...


I'm beginning to wonder if Yogi and Shala are actually blood siblings! Yogi does that floor scratching, still does! Then he sits down, puts his nose on that spot, and just snorts and breathes heavy! It's almost like he's doing meditation and it cracks me up every time. I am convinced there is something down there that he smells, but not sure what! I try to distract him when he's digging on the hardwoods, usually with a toy. He also does it when he goes to bed and he's not really ready for going to bed. I think it's a way for him to get his energy expended because he soon just sighs, gives up and goes to sleep.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Both my guys dig at the tile floor - especially in our computer room and bathroom. Doesn't damage anything... but I do not think it's stress related, if that was your concern? They do it because it feels good, I think. Jacks especially does a little digging when getting ready to settle - it's probably something he learned from his mom. 

And again (and I'm typing this in all respect), if the crating is not working... I would not be so much in a hurry to force it to work in the short term. If you have friends or family nearby, I would ask them to help you out when you go back to work. 

Both my guys are as Velcro as any dog can get - but that is not the same as separation anxiety. Both do very well in the house when nobody is home with them. They have their "den" and usually hang out there. This, while when I am home they are never more than a few feet away and never out of sight (they usually keep me in sight at all times). 

From the sounds of it - the desire to get her more independent while you are home is causing more stress to you and her. And stress can cause colitis and other issues - which she may be experiencing from the sounds of it. 

Keep your spirits up and don't feel like you are going to mess up if you alter the crating schedule or keep her with you in the house.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Sweet Girl said:


> Thanks, Anne. Here's a challenge - if I were to tether her to me, I fear she would chew anything in her reach. She pulls the tea towels down from the oven handle, she chews the bottom of the vanity in the bathroom, she chews the legs of the dining room table and the chair rungs... it's what prompted me to start putting her in the x-pen. There was just too much temptation around - all the furniture legs, etc.
> 
> I hate to just keep sounding negative on everything - but I also know her capabilities. I don't feel she is ready for stay yet. I have tried a couple times, but she gets so easily distracted. If I sat her on a mat, she would attack and chew the mat.
> 
> I will definitely do what you suggest for vacuuming. I have been wondering how I was going to do it - which is why I have only been Swiffering thus far.


OK, we didn't have that issue with Yogi- he did pull the towels down and I just put them up on the counter. He's currently ignoring them (I'm afraid if I say he always ignores them he'll start grabbing them again!). I actually had a good teacher on puppy temptations- Toby, so we had very minimal things out at first. 

Forgive me for not catching this if you already mentioned it, but can you use Bitter Yuck on the furniture? It stopped Yogi in his tracks. I did end up taking a section of the xpen and blocking off my dining room table legs. I also have a nice wooden folding gate blocking our formal living room. He hasn't been in there yet. I'm going to open it up when he's about 3 years old, without much ado so he won't be tempted.


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## LeilaM (Sep 14, 2012)

So sorry to hear about your troubles with your pup, especially with the diarrhea. We have an 11 week old pup and I know it can be challenging. 
Please forgive me if you've already done this, but I would probably call the vet if my pup was having liquid diarrhea as puppies can dehydrate very quickly.

What food did Jane have her on? how did she do on that?

Also, forgive me if you mentioned this before,but how often do you take her outside to run and relieve some energy. I know it's hard in the heat (we've had that issue to) but mornings and evenings have worked really well. Do you have help taking her out? or are you doing this on your own? Can you get some help? Also, I find a nice romp outside followed by 15 minutes of supervision out of crate followed by another nice outside romp is usually enough to tire out puppy.

We also have a really open floor plan. We have a crate but no ex-pen. Our puppy likes to chew on things as well. We have sprayed many many things with bitter apple ( does not stain any of my furniture even our clothes:doh: We even had to go to the pet store to get the bigger bottle! He is getting better as he HATES even the smell of it and now is leaving furniture alone. Perhaps a bit more exercise would decrease the scratching.

I apologize if my advice is repetitive, puppies are cute but exhausting. Hang in there.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I feel badly that she's giving you such a hard time. It really, really will get better. It just seems like it will take forever.


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## valibin (Jun 28, 2013)

Hi,

I have only had two Goldens, and I only limited the amount of toys they had a choice of and then limited them to three, the most. I also had the crate in the living room all of the time, that was their place, with a blanket covering all three sides, with the exception of the front ( that was left uncovered, so they could see me. They did learn to love their crate...it was their haven all through their lives. Don't get me wrong...they eventually had the run of the house (after they stopped teething) First week, I slept in the living room and slowly lessened the time I was there, in clear view of them., till eventually, I slept in my bedroom, and they slept in their crate (no x-pen) in the living room alone. Both of them became very acceptable of being left alone in their crate and slowly given them 1 room, then two rooms and by the time they were nine months old, they got the run of the house with me being away from my home. I am by no means an expert, but that is my experience. The very first two to three days were tough, because their crying can tug at your heart strings, you just can't give up. My very first dog (not a Golden), I did give in and consequently he had severe separation anxiety syndrome. But, I imagine not all of our fur babies aren't the same, just like our human kids. Wish you luck.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

My Samantha whom I bred was my noisiest puppy. From 8 weeks until 14 weeks she fussed in her crate at 5 AM...we ignored her and eventually she stopped... She is now very good and quiet in a crate...has been for 11 years.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

hotel4dogs said:


> Here's a little short term help that I came across in one of my books....it's not a *fix* but it might help a little for now.
> I know she knows sit and down.
> When you are working with her on them, work on distancing yourself from her. So tell her sit, tell her STAY, back up a couple of feet, immediately return, give her a treat, and tell her what a good girl she is. Slowly build up to being able to be several feet away from her. This is a GAME, not you leaving! Build to where you can VERY briefly disappear from her sight while she is doing her sit/stay or her down/stay, and then calmly return to her, give her a treat, and tell her she's a good girl.
> The idea is to build her confidence that she's okay when you're gone, and when you come back you are very pleased at what a good girl she's being. You came back because she was doing what you asked her to do, not because she was throwing a tantrum and demanding your return.
> ...


I will try this. As soon as this current bout of diarrhea clear sup.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Dallas Gold said:


> OK, we didn't have that issue with Yogi- he did pull the towels down and I just put them up on the counter. He's currently ignoring them (I'm afraid if I say he always ignores them he'll start grabbing them again!). I actually had a good teacher on puppy temptations- Toby, so we had very minimal things out at first.
> 
> Forgive me for not catching this if you already mentioned it, but can you use Bitter Yuck on the furniture? It stopped Yogi in his tracks. I did end up taking a section of the xpen and blocking off my dining room table legs. I also have a nice wooden folding gate blocking our formal living room. He hasn't been in there yet. I'm going to open it up when he's about 3 years old, without much ado so he won't be tempted.


I have used Bitter Yuck - it stops her in the moment, but she starts up again as soon as it wears off (and so I spray again).


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Ok forum friends, we need to come up with a way to stop Shala from scratching the floor before she drives Stephanie NUTS.
Stephanie, how does she respond to being corrected with a leash? Have you done any of that yet?
Just thinking out loud. Maybe you can put a leash on her and let her drag it. (They do make metal ones, I had one for my Tiny, that can't be chewed). If she starts scratching, grab the leash, give her a little leash pop, and tell her NO. Move her to a different place, and see if she starts up again. 
Again, just sort of musing on this...


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Thank you to all of you, by the way. I really appreciate all the advice.

Just to be clear - she is fine in the crate at night. And she is fine in the wire crate in the living room when I leave the house. The problem is when she is just in the x-pen hanging out, and I go into the kitchen (in plain sight) or into the bathroom or bedroom, just even for 30 seconds.




LeilaM said:


> So sorry to hear about your troubles with your pup, especially with the diarrhea. We have an 11 week old pup and I know it can be challenging.
> Please forgive me if you've already done this, but I would probably call the vet if my pup was having liquid diarrhea as puppies can dehydrate very quickly.
> 
> What food did Jane have her on? how did she do on that?
> ...


She has been on Metronidazole for the diarrhea (twice). She is on the same food she was eating when she came home from Jane's. I have not changed it. But I will be changing it as soon as possible. It is too rich.

**** I do think that whoever mentioned the diarrhea is stress-related is probably right. At least in this instance. This morning's hysterics were REALLY bad - the worst in several days. And the liquid diarrhea started just after.*

She gets a lot of exercise - walks up and down my street and around the townhouse complex several times a day. We are normally out for 30-60 minutes at a time - mostly because she is SO cute, many people stop to pat her. I also take her to run in two different grassy areas (not dog parks) everyday and we do training. 

Maybe I just need to forget the x-pen and try to follow her around with Bitter Yuck and try to keep her away from tings she can chew. I don't even know anymore what's better.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Baby gates are awesome. Especially if you bring her into the kitchen or other rooms with you. The idea is to always keep her in sight.  

With Bertie the day after he came home, I went to the petstore and bought up 1 of every type of imaginable chew thing (well, not everything - pigs ears and hooves are a huge no-no) in the store. This because his mouth was on everything that first day.  

And Bertie showed me which chews he liked and which were a waste of money. Kongs and plastic type chews were unfortunately a waste of money. I knew beforehand but tried them anyway. >.< 

His breeders recommended rope toys as well for chewing - I was unsure about that because I don't like the idea of the dogs ingesting the rope strings chewed off of those. But they did work for him at the time. 

When they are puppies - this is the best time to get those edible chews, btw... zukes had these bones that were absolutely awesome for Bertie. They would keep him occupied for 1-2 hours at dog class when I brought him with. He also got meaty bones to chew on as well. 

And *drumroll* I had an old pair of shoes that he was allowed to carry around and chew on. I was throwing them out anyway and didn't care of the dogs chewed on them. Probably sounds bad, but the chewing did not translate to my good shoes.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

Wall tether?








1.) Much more limited floor for her to scratch at (could even put a rubber mat down that she can't eat)
2.) Maybe she won't be as looney when you leave the room if there is not actually a barrier between you and her. 

I obviously wouldn't suggest this if I thought you were going to just leave her hooked to the wall unsupervised, but it's you so like... not really concerned about that lol!

I'm trying to think of things that are going to lower her stress level first and foremost, she is absolutely NOT in learning mode if she is so stressed out that she is having loose stools (Iorek also sits on the "loose stools when stressed" couch with Shala, it's oh so pleasant), so I would think the first step is to LOWER all that stress and chemicals flooding her while still allowing you to work on what you need to work on so that you guys can function come August.

Also wanted to add : Is there any chance she picked up giardia? Since developing giardia symptoms is very immune-response based (which is why lots of dogs have giardia and you would never know), stress can really exasperate the symptoms. I'm finding that more and more dogs can not kick giardia with just Metronidazole and if she is nauseous/crampy/yucky feeling from giardia, that could easily become a vicious cycle. I don't know. Just an idea. Throwing everything I can think of out there.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

*OKAY - UPDATE*


One of Anne's posts got me thinking and I have just reconfigured the whole space. Now the x-pen is blocking off the furniture, and she is free to wander to me, follow me into the kitchen, whatever. We will try this for a bit. I will also go and buy an industrial sized bottle of Bitter Yuck as I will need more. Much of the furniture is blocked, but the dining room table and chairs are open. 

The floors, well, she is just going to scratch the floors til I figure this out.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Megora said:


> Baby gates are awesome. Especially if you bring her into the kitchen or other rooms with you. The idea is to always keep her in sight.
> 
> With Bertie the day after he came home, I went to the petstore and bought up 1 of every type of imaginable chew thing (well, not everything - pigs ears and hooves are a huge no-no) in the store. This because his mouth was on everything that first day.
> 
> ...


Oh - I DO have baby gates! Three of them! And two makeshift barriers. And I totally was gating her into the kitchen only with me. She is right in plain sight when she scratches the floor, or tries to chew the side of the cabinets. She has no shame. :no: But it's like, she I leave her in the x-pen for 30 seconds just to pop over to the kitchen - she cries. 

She also has just about every chew toy imagineable. She likes every one, and at some point of the day, chews on every one. But I have just picked up 2/3 of the toys and will try the limit and rotate trick. I would love to try some of the edible ones, but honestly, we need to get this diarrhea cleared up. Too late for the vet, but I am going to go get some pumpkin. I do not think I can feed her the Fromm anymore. I might just bite the bullet and do pumpkin and then try the Acana I got as a sample as part of a dog-warming gift. She already has diarrhea - a switch to a less rich food can't make it much worse.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

One of the earlier posters mentioned going outside for exercise and I agree. Plus I found with Yogi, who is by nature pretty mellow, that if I took him out in a public place in his Sherpa before full vaccinations (due to our horrible parvo and distemper epidemic) just to meet people and get attention, that he slept for about 2 to 3 hours after we got home. He was a tired puppy, a good puppy! So I'll suggest more socialization outings as well as errands, even if it's to go to the bank drive in, pick up a prescription in the drive through. I often put Yogi's sherpa in a grocery store cart (from the cart corral outside) and just walked him up and down the adjacent strip mall area. He usually met about 10 to 20 people doing that. It only took 30 minutes to an hour and I got the benefit of a sleeping puppy. I brought him home for his nap and got to work. I put him in his crate, with a dining room tablecloth over it all, turned on a air purifier that made white noise, turned on the ceiling fan for air circulation, turned down the heat to cool the room. All blinds were closed and it was dark in there! 

I also have the benefit of Toby, who is still very energetic and he tired Yogi out when I was too tired to do so. Maybe you need an older but active older rescue sibling. 

I'm going to throw a theory out- just in case- but could it be her diarrhea/tummy issues are causing her to be extra clingy to you and want you by her all the time when you are home? Maybe if those things clear up this will improve? When I take antibiotics I feel bad and it actually is hard on my stomach. Maybe she's physically in discomfort and with her security blanket (you) not with her she cries? 

A few weeks after Yogi came home Sally's Mom here on the forum sent him a package. Inside was this:
Amazon.com: Nylabone Puppy Ring Bone, Petite: Pet Supplies, (Wolf size, not petite) another similar chew in a bone shape and another chew that I could not find the link to to post here. 
These were great for him and he worked on them for hours. My only problem was that Toby would steal them and he could work through them in minutes, so I ended up putting these in his x-pen with him then pulling them up when he came out.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Sweet Girl said:


> Oh - I DO have baby gates! Three of them! And two makeshift barriers.
> 
> She is right in plain sight when she scratches the floor, or tries to chew the side of the cabinets. She has no shame. :no:
> 
> She also has just about every chew toy imagineable. She likes every one, and at some point of the day, chews on every one. But I have just picked up 2/3 of the toys and will try the limit and rotate trick. I would love to try some of the edible ones, but honestly, we need to get this diarrhea cleared up. Too late for the vet, but I am going to go get some pumpkin. I do not think I can feed her the Fromm anymore. I might just bite the bullet and do pumpkin and then try the Acana I got as a sample as part of a dog-warming gift. She already has diarrhea - a switch to a less rich food can't make it much worse.


Parasites and the typical puppy diarrhea culprits have been ruled out? 

We do rotate our toys. Weare on Wubbas now because Yogi's tuff toys need surgery.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Sweet Girl said:


> Oh - I DO have baby gates! Three of them! And two makeshift barriers. And I totally was gating her into the kitchen only with me. She is right in plain sight when she scratches the floor, or tries to chew the side of the cabinets. She has no shame. :no: But it's like, she I leave her in the x-pen for 30 seconds just to pop over to the kitchen - she cries.
> 
> She also has just about every chew toy imagineable. She likes every one, and at some point of the day, chews on every one. But I have just picked up 2/3 of the toys and will try the limit and rotate trick. I would love to try some of the edible ones, but honestly, we need to get this diarrhea cleared up. Too late for the vet, but I am going to go get some pumpkin. I do not think I can feed her the Fromm anymore. I might just bite the bullet and do pumpkin and then try the Acana I got as a sample as part of a dog-warming gift. She already has diarrhea - a switch to a less rich food can't make it much worse.


On the basis that the diarrhea could be stress or excitement related... it should clear up as she settles down. 

Hamburger and rice works great the same day... if it is very simple colitis issues, it should clear up within a day. Good luck - I know it's the worst thing to deal with when you have a puppy in potty training. >.< 

The edible bones - get the extra large kind. They should keep her busy to the point she is not eating them in a short period of time. 

If she's chewing on anything she shouldn't - I kinda would go up and give her a little pop on the collar and tell her "no, leave it" - and then take her to the other side of the room and give her something appropriate to chew on.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Wish I could mail my bitter yuck to you. I got 2 tiny bottles and we haven't made a dent in either. It's so awful that Yogi walks away when he sees it. I accidentally got some on my hands and ugh!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Reading your posts, I kept thinking "wow, this sounds JUST like puppy Flip." I knew Abby was From Cheerio, and Cheerio owner is sister-in-law to owner of Sunfire, so I knew it was likely they were at least distantly related, and yep, Abby and Flip share a grandmother! 

I have been there and I feel your pain. I don't beat around the bush: Flip was not an easy puppy. When I got him I also had three other dogs, and there were many a night his first year I was near tears trying to keep up with him. 

Of course, every dog is an individual, but they sound so similar, so here is what did NOT work for me as far as him having a fit when I left him: 
- giving kongs, chew treats, etc when I was away didn't work. He wasn't interested in them if I wasn't right next to him.
- rewarding quiet didn't work. Getting himself worked into a tizzy seemed to be some kind of strange reward in itself to him, so trying to control himself enough to earn another kind of reward was of no interest to him
- aversives like covering him, spraying him, hitting the crate, didn't work. He's just not bothered enough by that kind of stuff.
-ignoring him didn't work. He'd work himself up into such a hissy fit that he'd pee in the crate. Then start all over. That could go on for hours.

So what finally did work? At six months old, at the suggestion of several well-known trainers who were around to see/hear him and see what did not work, I got him a Tritronics BarkLimiter bark collar. It was just what he needed. I didn't have to go near him to give the correction. I could adjust the level to what was appropriate for him. After a few corrections he was able to calm down. Because he couldn't vocalize, he couldn't work himself into that totally frenzied state. It was an absolute life saver for us.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Dallas Gold said:


> Parasites and the typical puppy diarrhea culprits have been ruled out?
> 
> We do rotate our toys. Weare on Wubbas now because Yogi's tuff toys need surgery.


Ruled out. I am really thinking today is stress-related. It makes sens e- she was SO worked up. Poor thing. 

She gets a LOT of time outside and socializing. We walk up and down my street and she meets tons of adults and kids (she is really good when she meets people) and she has puppy class and I take her to another puppy-dog play group (all dogs have shots) and to the non-dog park where she plays with pups and dogs who have all their shots. I asked my vet about the parvo risk and she said it is very low here. She said I am fine to be doing what we are doing. Shala has easily met her hundred people without my even trying. So she is getting lots of socialization and exercise. I totally subscribe to a tired dog is a good dog. 

And Anne, don't laugh. She HATES the Sherpa. I have to put treats in it to get her into it, and she cries and scratches. Less now, since going in the car brings her to fun times. But I remember your pics of Yogi in it going out to socialize... and I have thought... "if only..."


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Mirinde wrote:

*Also wanted to add : Is there any chance she picked up giardia? Since developing giardia symptoms is very immune-response based (which is why lots of dogs have giardia and you would never know), stress can really exasperate the symptoms. I'm finding that more and more dogs can not kick giardia with just Metronidazole and if she is nauseous/crampy/yucky feeling from giardia, that could easily become a vicious cycle. I don't know. Just an idea. Throwing everything I can think of out there.*

I am totally onboard with the above. Especially since she's not the only one in the litter with the same symptoms. Giardia is almost impossible to find in a fecal exam, and what you are describing fits it (or coccidia) exactly. When all is smooth, you see no signs of it. But when the slightest thing changes, it rears its ugly head and you get prompt diarrhea. It is very, very common in puppies. 
I don't disagree about changing the food. Best way to change a food in a puppy that young is to stop the old food completely, and do the beef/rice or chicken/rice for 2-3 days. Then start adding in the new food a little at a time. I think that might help, but I really think you're going to need to treat her for an assumed case of giardia or coccidia with something different than metronidazole. 
Have you gone through the "what did I get myself into" stage yet? I went through that with each of mine.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Sweet Girl said:


> And Anne, don't laugh. She HATES the Sherpa. I have to put treats in it to get her into it, and she cries and scratches. Less now, since going in the car brings her to fun times. But I remember your pics of Yogi in it going out to socialize... and I have thought... "if only..."


I definitely won't laugh. I know now I was very very fortunate he didn't mind the Sherpa while we needed to be so careful with him. He started to dislike it about the time he was fully vaccinated, reached 20-25 lbs, and could fit in his puppy seat belt harness. I really got lucky we were able to use it for as long as we did.


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## Doug (Jul 17, 2010)

Sometimes in these situations we need to think of ourselves as the pup.

After spending so much time with my litter mates the last thing I would want to do is spend time by myself especially when I know that my new best friend is just behind that door. I would want to call out to Steph too! After all she is great fun and I would love her sooo much. I would be beside myself if I was left in a small area if all my heart wanted to do is explore and play with my new best friend.

I like to think that the best way to deal with puppy hood is try to constantly burn of all of that fresh new energy. This means exposing them to everything as often as possible. It is great that she goes on on walks and is socialised. We spoiled our pup with the latest and greatest of toys but these days we just by safe cheap kids toys from the charity shop. The more toys she has the less likely she will destroy them. They are no longer a novelty so they are not torn to pieces. Photo:Golden Memories

I would give her as much room as possible to get rid of that puppy energy while you are able to supervise. However as you have noted some things need correction for safety reasons. Our boy used to chew table legs also until someone recommended a dab of euchalyptus oil. For nipping and other corrections we used the noise of a dust buster to distract them. 

I wonder if she would scratch as much if she had the freedom to do zoomies when she felt the urge?

All puppies are different. They constantly surprise us. Just like children they are a puzzle and we need to find what works for them. Well done for being open to new ideas. At least we all know that they are not this way forever and the puppy energy does settle and we are left with one of the most beautiful, happy and heartwarming dogs that we are so blessed to know and these antics will be a faint distant memory. 

Good luck!


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Sweet Girl, I'm very sorry you're having both behavioral and medical issues with your pup. Here's a trick that often works on human babies and has worked on one pup I know: record your screaming, crying, barking puppy, and when she carries on the next time, play your recording of her. The pup is so curious who is doing all that fussing that they forget they were fussing! Don't forget to reward the quiet when you get it If you walk into your kitchen and she starts screaming, push your play button immediately. It may actually help you distract her from the floor scratching, too. Good luck and do remember, this too shall pass.....although not before you've checked yourself into the local loony bin!


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## Kylie's Mom (Jun 23, 2013)

My Kylie is 17 weeks old and I can't say we have had any of the barking problems you are having. But the chewing on everything is very normal. We didn't use an ex-pen, but we gated Kylie in the kitchen where we spend most of our time. Kylie goes in her crate, when we leave the house, but she isn't really fond of it. She only whined for about 5 min the first night, but all dogs are different. We are retired and home all day and she doesn't really fuss if we put her in the crate and leave the house. However, some dogs have separation issues and some don't. I think that is what you are dealing with right now. With reassurance, she will begin to know that you are coming back and she doesn't have to get upset. All I can say, is things will get better. Keep doing what you are doing, but don't give in to her whining and barking, if you have other things to do just do what you have to do. Maybe ear plugs with music would make it easier for you.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Sweet Girl said:


> I have used Bitter Yuck - it stops her in the moment, but she starts up again as soon as it wears off (and so I spray again).


Yes. That's normal. She will return to the behavior the spray deters from when it wears off. Probably several times. Expect to re-apply a handful of times before deciding it's not working.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Steph, this is such a great group of people, I am so amazed at all the useful suggestions everyone is making and the different perspectives are so helpful. I hope it's making you feel a little less alone. I am driving tomorrow morning to pick up my parents' puppy and I have made a mental note to bookmark this thread. I will be driving two hours early in the morning and two hours after lunch, if you feel like calling. I know I don't have anything to offer but sympathy, but I'm good at that


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Yes. That's normal. She will return to the behavior the spray deters from when it wears off. Probably several times. Expect to re-apply a handful of times before deciding it's not working.


A trainer told me that it's really the alcohol that is distasteful and when it dries it evaporates and no longer has much effectiveness. Gotta keep re-applying.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

When my dog was a small puppy, I slept in things I could wear in the yard (or everything minus some socks and sweat pants I'd put next to my bed and put on in the morning), slipped on some shoes when I woke up, and let him immediately out of his kennel and brought him straight out into the yard if I was physically able to move (I have some health issues). I set an earlier alarm so he wouldn't have to stay in as long, etc.. You could try this. Take care of the dog before you get ready for the day and then let the puppy hang around, especially while you don't have work and could maybe shower before you leave to run errands or whatever needs to be done that day rather than immediately in the morning.

I agree on not letting the puppy into the bathroom. But if you're just in there for a minute or two, and she's just been outside, she'll probably be alright in the adjoining room while you're in the bathroom. Granted, when my dog was a puppy there were a few times when he took the opportunity to get all the clothes out of my drawer and the blankets and pillows from my bed and form a giant pile and roll around on them, but it mostly worked out fine and he learned very young he was simply not going to be allowed in the bathroom while I was in there and stopped whining about it. For showers, you'll have to kennel her until she's a little older if there is no one else to watch her while you're in there.

I had my dog house trained in three weeks and he mostly stopped crying in his kennel within two. But you've got to consistently ignore the carrying on in the kennel. If you can put her kennel in a room with the air conditioner or something that creates some white noise, that'll help both of you. It got to the point where within a few months, if he'd cry in his kennel, I wouldn't ignore it anymore, because I'd know something was wrong (He had a once every 3-4 week bout of diarrhea for a few months and had to be let out in the middle of the night and have the kennel cleaned if appropriate). He was quiet as a church mouse the rest of the time, after an initial adjustment period.

As far as general clinginess goes, I always thought that was a plus. That's part of why I got a golden retriever as a single person. I like my dog to be into me and want to spend time with me and do stuff with me, and force me out on walks and stuff. I acclimated him to the car early and he soon loved car rides, too. Of course, I bring him over to any social gatherings I go to and to visit relatives and his dog friends as well, because I know goldens love to socialize. But we have a special bond, and I figured that's what most single people with goldens were going for. There are plenty of dog breeds who aren't as into their humans and I figured people who wanted a dog that'd be less in their face would have picked one of those breeds. But I'm not very good at understanding other people. 

Maybe let the dog follow you around your living space more. When I was home in the early days, he was always out and with me. If I was in the living room, I'd close the door so he couldn't leave the living room and take him outside as appropriate (Which was pretty constantly in the early going). It was harder in the kitchen where there were no barriers, but I'd track him down and call him back to me if he wandered. I only kenneled him at night, when I was showering and getting dressed, and when I had to leave the apartment without him for a while. After about 10 months, that got widdled down to only while I was sleeping, essentially, so he'd settle down and stop barking at things and getting into trouble and let me sleep.

Eventually my puppy reached a stage where he wanted to explore and stopped trailing me around as much. But goldens are very people oriented, so don't be surprised if your golden always wants to be in the company of people or other dogs to some degree. If you can't take it all day every day, maybe see if you can drop your puppy off with some trusted friends and relatives for a few hours once in a while and let her focus in on them and give you time to rest.


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

Sweet Girl said:


> Thank you to all of you, by the way. I really appreciate all the advice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My Tugg spent the better part of his first year on Metronidazole. My vet thought he might have something called an immature gut. I do know it about drove me nuts, I tried probiotics, pumpkin, not much helped except the Metronidazole. When he got older I even switched him to Pro Plan sensitive skin and stomach which he is doing well on. He is 18 months old now and that issue seems to have resolved. Never had an issue with the crate, did have terrible issues with him being mouthy/chewing, one night in the middle of the night when he had to go out, he grabbed hold of my pajama pant leg and sunk his teeth into my leg. I remember standing out in the freezing cold bawling my eyes out. It does get better, but I know how frustrating it can be. I think your pup might have too much free space in the combined x-pen/crate area. And maybe cover the crate with a blanket or cover to make it more cozy/dark? As far as the scratching, no idea about that. Hang in there. In a few months all this will be just a faint memory.


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## kleintje (Jun 16, 2013)

Hi

Have you tried the manners minder? Amazon.com: Premier Manners Minder Remote Reward Behavior Training System for Dogs: Pet Supplies

It's remote reward dispensing system where you can use a remote control to dispense kibbles or treats to reward good behaviour; so you can continue to reward her before she started making noise. You can also put a timer so that it automatically dispenses treats every minutes or so. 

K


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Sweet Girl, are you giving Shala nap time at some point during the day? When Yogi was Shala's age I put him in his crate for nap time mid-day and he cried at first then slept for 2 to 3 hours. That's when I got a lot of things (quiet things) accomplished in the house, though I had to caution Toby not to wake the baby by barking! Toby is very verbal in his communications with me and eventually he figured out why I wanted him to be quiet. The reason why I mention this is it could be she is barking because she is overstimulated and needs a nap- overly tired. 


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## Davidrob2 (Dec 10, 2012)

I've only had a chance to skim through some of the more recent posts so I'm sorry if this is a repeat. One thing we did with Harry when he first came home since he became so attached to me (I was/am the primary caregiver) was keep an old tshirt that I had worn with him in his crate and safe zones. We did the same when my husband went overseas recently. It seemed to calm him down since he had the "scent" close by. I also swear by the Snuggle Puppy. It also has a "heart beat" and you can put hand warmers inside to make them feel like they aren't alone. Harry is still attached to his. It's his go-to bedtime "blanket".

Snuggle Puppies - Snuggle Puppy - In Stock

People come and go at our house like it's Grand Central Station and Harry is a pro at it now.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Feeling much better this morning. Thank you all - for all your ideas, and caring, and advice. I think putting most of the furniture behind the x-pen and gates was a really good idea (thanks, Anne!). She can now follow me around as she likes (which is why she is fast asleep on the couch beside me now). I will just deal with the floor-scratching. Not sure how, but I am wondering if it will diminish if she feels happier and more secure near me. And we will go buy a huge bottle of Bitter Yuck (and maybe some eucalyptus oil!) today (maybe two). She will have much more opportunity to chew - but if she is happier, I'm happier. It was breaking my heart that she was so upset. But I thought it was better for her to be safe in the x-pen. I guess not. I also took away 2/3 of the toys - maybe they were overwhelming her, too. We'll rotate every few days. 

I fed her some rice last night, and after a last liquid diarrhea around 9 or 10, she did not poop on her last walkabout at 11pm, and she did not poop first thing this morning. So I think things are firming up. Rice will continue and then I will switch her to a less rich kibble. 



hotel4dogs said:


> Mirinde wrote:
> 
> *Also wanted to add : Is there any chance she picked up giardia? Since developing giardia symptoms is very immune-response based (which is why lots of dogs have giardia and you would never know), stress can really exasperate the symptoms. I'm finding that more and more dogs can not kick giardia with just Metronidazole and if she is nauseous/crampy/yucky feeling from giardia, that could easily become a vicious cycle. I don't know. Just an idea. Throwing everything I can think of out there.*
> 
> ...


This totally makes sense. Stress has caused the relapses both times. Poor little tummy. She is so peaceful right now beside me. I have to say, I have NOT wanted to send her back. I HAVE had to remind myself why I didn't want to get an older dog and chose to do another puppy. And I keep reminding myself that Tesia was NOT an easy puppy - I had shredded hands and arms, she was cheeky and not snuggly, and I definitely wanted to send her back. And look what she turned into. My total heart. So I KNOW this will pass. I already adore Shala, so I know this just comes with the territory. I have been more worried that I have been doing stuff wrong and setting her up for bad habits in adulthood. 



Dallas Gold said:


> I definitely won't laugh. I know now I was very very fortunate he didn't mind the Sherpa while we needed to be so careful with him. He started to dislike it about the time he was fully vaccinated, reached 20-25 lbs, and could fit in his puppy seat belt harness. I really got lucky we were able to use it for as long as we did.


Every time we go in the car, I daydream about when she gets big enough for a harness. She is still pretty tiny - 11 weeks, and I bet she is no more than 15 pounds. So we have a while yet in the Sherpa! At least, I think it is sinking in that when I say, "go in the car?" even though it means going in the Sherpa, it also means going to the park or to puppy class or puppy playgroup. Tesia, of course, loved her little car crate. Sigh. 



Doug said:


> Sometimes in these situations we need to think of ourselves as the pup.
> 
> After spending so much time with my litter mates the last thing I would want to do is spend time by myself especially when I know that my new best friend is just behind that door. I would want to call out to Steph too! After all she is great fun and I would love her sooo much. I would be beside myself if I was left in a small area if all my heart wanted to do is explore and play with my new best friend.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this. You make a lot of really good points. She IS different from what I have known, so we definitely need to find the sweet spot for the two of us. Sitting her with her sleeping soundly beside me on the couch, I feel we are already making progress. 



Finn's Fan said:


> Sweet Girl, I'm very sorry you're having both behavioral and medical issues with your pup. Here's a trick that often works on human babies and has worked on one pup I know: record your screaming, crying, barking puppy, and when she carries on the next time, play your recording of her. The pup is so curious who is doing all that fussing that they forget they were fussing! Don't forget to reward the quiet when you get it If you walk into your kitchen and she starts screaming, push your play button immediately. It may actually help you distract her from the floor scratching, too. Good luck and do remember, this too shall pass.....although not before you've checked yourself into the local loony bin!


K - this made me laugh out loud.  So hilarious. If I had a recorder, I would totally do this!! I think it would definitely work on her. 



Dallas Gold said:


> Sweet Girl, are you giving Shala nap time at some point during the day? When Yogi was Shala's age I put him in his crate for nap time mid-day and he cried at first then slept for 2 to 3 hours. That's when I got a lot of things (quiet things) accomplished in the house, though I had to caution Toby not to wake the baby by barking! Toby is very verbal in his communications with me and eventually he figured out why I wanted him to be quiet. The reason why I mention this is it could be she is barking because she is overstimulated and needs a nap- overly tired.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Definitely. I take her out and we play or train or she plays with the kids, and then she definitely gets her down time. And I try not to wake her, too. (I go out sometimes just so she can sleep). The hysterics yesterday morning were upon waking from her morning nap (after I took her out). :doh:



Davidrob2 said:


> I've only had a chance to skim through some of the more recent posts so I'm sorry if this is a repeat. One thing we did with Harry when he first came home since he became so attached to me (I was/am the primary caregiver) was keep an old tshirt that I had worn with him in his crate and safe zones. We did the same when my husband went overseas recently. It seemed to calm him down since he had the "scent" close by. I also swear by the Snuggle Puppy. It also has a "heart beat" and you can put hand warmers inside to make them feel like they aren't alone. Harry is still attached to his. It's his go-to bedtime "blanket".
> 
> Snuggle Puppies - Snuggle Puppy - In Stock
> 
> People come and go at our house like it's Grand Central Station and Harry is a pro at it now.


Would you believe - the Snuggle Pup, which I looked into, would be more than $80 for me?? Seriously. The shipping to Canada was $40!!!! And on Amazon Canada, they simply fold the price of shipping into the cost (it is listed for $80). End of Snuggle Puppy idea for us.

I tried the T-shirt idea, and she just wanted to chew it and rip it apart. I had to remove the crate bed, and have not been able to put in a towel or anything. I have been using a DAP spray from the vet (pheremones). I think it helps. I spray her crate every night before bed.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Tito got horribly car sick the first several months of his life. So naturally, he HATED to go in the car! He had to ride in a crate in the back, and we couldn't put anything in it because we knew there'd be a major clean up when we arrived at our destination.
Now, there is nothing he likes better than a car ride!! He jumps eagerly in the back (SUV) and wiggles with pleasure when he's getting to go some place.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

How are things today? 

I am sending peaceful, quiet days and nights to you. 

About the floor scratching ---- is it like a coping thing? A stress related thing? Cn you put down some rugs? Or something to prevent damage? Can you reward her when she isn't doing that? I know that would drive me bonkers. 


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I just got back from the cabin so I did not read but the first post. We used baby gates with Rose for when we are not at home. I have allowed Rose to follow me everywhere including the bathroom and let her smell the entire house when at home. Shortly she understood that this is her new place and she can be trusted anywhere. If I am in the bathroom she just lays down on the floor or manages to get in the tub. When I first left the home, I put her behind the baby gate and left for 5 minutes, came back home. The next day we left her alone for 15 minutes and came back home. Then 30 minutes and then an hour. I got her used to the fact that no matter what I will be back home. 
We are now "fostering" a flat coat who was crated for long periods of time and has separation anxiety. She has been perfectly fine with the baby gates. We only had her since Monday. I put her crate in one room, she does not even acknowledge it.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Brave said:


> How are things today?
> 
> I am sending peaceful, quiet days and nights to you.
> 
> ...


Things are better today, thank you for checking in. I think the new set-up is better for her. She can follow me if she wants, but most of the furniture is out of her reach. I still used about half a bottle of Bitter Yuck today though!! :

The floor scratching is such a mystery. I have not been able to pin point a specific trigger. It is disturbing and it DOES drive me bonkers. Also, it worries me because it looks like SHE can't control it either. But if being out with me, having more access to me makes her feel better, maybe it will diminish. Fingers crossed. I actually cannot put down rugs because she will chew and destroy them. So right now, my hardwood and tiles are suffering. 



Claudia M said:


> I just got back from the cabin so I did not read but the first post. We used baby gates with Rose for when we are not at home. I have allowed Rose to follow me everywhere including the bathroom and let her smell the entire house when at home. Shortly she understood that this is her new place and she can be trusted anywhere. If I am in the bathroom she just lays down on the floor or manages to get in the tub. When I first left the home, I put her behind the baby gate and left for 5 minutes, came back home. The next day we left her alone for 15 minutes and came back home. Then 30 minutes and then an hour. I got her used to the fact that no matter what I will be back home.
> We are now "fostering" a flat coat who was crated for long periods of time and has separation anxiety. She has been perfectly fine with the baby gates. We only had her since Monday. I put her crate in one room, she does not even acknowledge it.


Unfortunately, she is not trustworthy enough yet not to be crated when I leave. She is only 11 weeks, and her housetraining is not 100%, and she will chew and chew - anything she can get her teeth on. Even if I gated her in the kitchen, she chews the bottom of the cabinets.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Flip is four and still can't be trusted loose unsupervised in the house. I stretched an xpen halfway across a spare room and he stays there at night and when I'm gone. He didnt graduate to that until he was two years old, before then i was worried hed chew the floor boards so it was strictly in a crate. If I can't supervise him while I'm home, he's pretty good in the backyard (aside from digging holes).


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Our last Golden, Chewy, was a floor scratcher. We thought it was a "nesting" behavior. The house we lived in when we got her, as an 8 week old puppy, had sheet vinyl flooring in the kitchen. Chewy scratched holes in the vinyl. We ended up having to replace the flooring with ceramic tile, which she could not harm. However she continued to do the "digging" or "scratching" for years.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Max's Dad said:


> Our last Golden, Chewy, was a floor scratcher. We thought it was a "nesting" behavior. The house we lived in when we got her, as an 8 week old puppy, had sheet vinyl flooring in the kitchen. Chewy scratched holes in the vinyl. We ended up having to replace the flooring with ceramic tile, which she could not harm. However *she continued to do the "digging" or "scratching" for years*.


:uhoh::uhoh: 

Kill. Me. Now.

Did Chewy do it only before getting ready to sleep? Or at completely random times for no apparent reason? Was she impossible to stop? Did she do it as though possessed?


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

She did it when she was going to lay down. As I said, she seemed to be nesting. Now that you mention it, she did seem to be possessed, or in her own world, while she dug at the floor. We were never able to stop the behavior. Chewy was a nervous dog, always in motion. She was also very attached to us. 

We attributed her behavior quirks in large part to the fact that she was a "pet store" puppy and was separated from her mother at a young age. Your puppy is from a quality breeder, so I think there is a good chance she will mellow as she gets older.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

My daughter was at home with Rose until Rose was close to two and a half months old - having a teenager at home for summer vacation helps a lot. Rose followed her everywhere in the house and that got her tired enough to also sleep a lot. 
*Remember that a tired baby is a happy baby.*
When you catch her chewing on something say no, give her a quick command that she knows and treat. Then take her away from the place she got in trouble - get her excited about something else like going outside, running up and down the hallway. 
Rose chewed onto the trim in the hallway (we ended up screwing plexiglass around the trim for her own safety), chewed on the rugs - main thing is to catch them in the act and correct with a quick no. If I didn't see her do it, we went together to the rug and I pointed to it and asked her if she did that - I would take the rug and in a disappointed voice I would say no no no - oh did she know that she did something wrong. 
Don't worry - she will be fine - the housebreaking can take until they are 5 months old and their bladder gets bigger. 
Rose looked possessed too when she got the zoomies. If re-direction does not work then you need to be firm and put her in timeout.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

On that floor scratching- it will be a good reminder in coming years to keep her nails nicely trimmed! 

As far as the Bitter Yuck- I found out, by accident, that my homecleaning plain vinegar/water mix (50/50) is a deterrent to my little one- he hates it. He's a counter "observer" at this point, but gets very upset when I'm cleaning my counters with this solution and he sniffs it! 

On the gates blocking access- that is good training for respecting gates and barriers. Yogi will respect them and not try to break through; however, he will open doors to find me if they are unlocked! I closed my utility room door to take some trash out this morning and he opened it and was sticking his head out the dog door to watch me! :doh: If you have lever door handles, be prepared... it might happen! :uhoh:


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

And when you have someone tell you something along the lines of "all you need to do is...." Or "that's simple, just...." , my advice is to close your eyes and get a good smack in in your imagination . Then you can pity them, because someday they too will have a puppy that doesn't follow all the "rules" of what works, and they will be beside themselves!


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Shala had diarrhea all night and threw up once. I think we are both pretty tired today. She woke me up every time, and I got her outside. Not to be too disgusting, but all she ate Saturday and yesterday was white rice, and last evening, 1/4 cup of kibble mixed in. (since she was doing better). But the vomit had what looked like baby carrots in it. All white rice, and then three pieces of this orange solid something. She did not eat baby carrots yesterday, unless she went into my fridge and got them herself. Any insight? We are going to the vet this afternoon. 



Dallas Gold said:


> On that floor scratching- it will be a good reminder in coming years to keep her nails nicely trimmed!
> 
> As far as the Bitter Yuck- I found out, by accident, that my homecleaning plain vinegar/water mix (50/50) is a deterrent to my little one- he hates it. He's a counter "observer" at this point, but gets very upset when I'm cleaning my counters with this solution and he sniffs it!
> 
> On the gates blocking access- that is good training for respecting gates and barriers. Yogi will respect them and not try to break through; however, he will open doors to find me if they are unlocked! I closed my utility room door to take some trash out this morning and he opened it and was sticking his head out the dog door to watch me! :doh: If you have lever door handles, be prepared... it might happen! :uhoh:


I will make a vinegar-water solution. I hate the smell of vinegar, too!

Tesia would never try to get through any kind of barrier - when she was a pup, all I needed to do was put the shelves from an old bookshelf across threshholds, and she wouldn't even look into the rooms. They were off limits (the shelves were, like, 8 inches high). This one tests them all - and even though she pulled down one of the baby gates on top of herself (it was not a heavy one and just made a loud noise), it barely phased her. Thankfully, no doors she could open. 



Loisiana said:


> And when you have someone tell you something along the lines of "all you need to do is...." Or "that's simple, just...." , my advice is to close your eyes and get a good smack in in your imagination . Then you can pity them, because someday they too will have a puppy that doesn't follow all the "rules" of what works, and they will be beside themselves!


You know what? I feel this is divine payback for my easy Tesia. She loved her crate, came knowing how to sit quietly in the car, never jumped on counters, never begged for food, never screamed when I left the room. Yes, she shredded my hands and arms, but she wasn't a really bad chewer, and she was housetrained in 3 days. 

My biggest fear is that I am doing stuff that is going to affect this pup for her whole life. I thought the x-pen was a great solution. Safe for her, she wouldn't have furniture to chew, she wouldn't have counters to jump on - and I may have caused heightened separation anxiety.  At least I know the floor-scratching was something she did before she came home with me. 

I give her lots of outdoor time (I definitely believe a tired dog is a good dog), we walk all around the townhouse and up and down the street several times a day. (I am counting the days til final shots are done). I take her to the non-dog park to run, and into the tennis court when no one's playing. We train throughout the day, and she has to sit for just about everything. She meets people all day, dogs, too (all have their shots, I ask). She loves kids and is very calm and sweet with them. But she turns into a demon sometimes anyway. That's when I feel like I am failing her in some way.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Have you ever given her carrots? Perhaps they stayed in her tummy for a few days? They cause my guys to poop sooner. 

Hope you get to the bottom of everything today at the vets.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

What color are your cabinets?? :




Sweet Girl said:


> (since she was doing better). But the vomit had what looked like baby carrots in it. All white rice, and then three pieces of this orange solid something. She did not eat baby carrots yesterday, unless she went into my fridge and got them herself. Any insight? We are going to the vet this afternoon.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Could it be pieces from a toy or something she snagged? Does the kibble come in different colors? 

I freaked out when Bear threw up his dinner of white rice and banana and there was red chunks in it. I thought, ooooh god! He's bleeding. He's dying. We have to go to the vet. Until I realized we had given him some watermelon that night. He had up chucked that too. /sigh. I have had so many freak outs over Bear..... Especially over "am I ruining him". Take a deep breath with me. The puppies are so resilient. You are such a great dog mom. Shala will be fine. (((((((Hugs)))))))


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

For what it's worth, Iorek's primary giardia symptom was actually vomiting (and severe stomach pain, but mostly vomiting). He didn't start with the loose stools until the day after we brought him home from the e-vet. I'm really thinking a couple rounds of Panacur is in order.

Back when you trying to stuff kongs, did you stuff with a wet food that had baby carrots in it? 

Just think, in a couple months, you will pop back into this thread and go "Holy moley that was so hard!!" and wonder how your perfectly developing puppy could have been such an evil infant. And then you will breathe a sigh of relief for your superior puppy raising skills.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

The real name for Zoomies is "F.R.A.P.S.", which stands for "Frenetic Random Activity Periods". I have to wonder if Shala's digging is her version of FRAPS? Rather than zoom around, she digs. It sounds exactly the same, with the total concentration, wild energy, etc. Most puppies do it several times a day. 
If you go online and google "canine fraps" you will see how common it is for them to turn into devil dogs in the early evenings. Just something they seem to need to do.
People describe it as the dog seeming to be possessed.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Dallas Gold said:


> Have you ever given her carrots? Perhaps they stayed in her tummy for a few days? They cause my guys to poop sooner.
> 
> Hope you get to the bottom of everything today at the vets.





Mirinde said:


> For what it's worth, Iorek's primary giardia symptom was actually vomiting (and severe stomach pain, but mostly vomiting). He didn't start with the loose stools until the day after we brought him home from the e-vet. I'm really thinking a couple rounds of Panacur is in order.
> 
> Back when you trying to stuff kongs, did you stuff with a wet food that had baby carrots in it?
> 
> Just think, in a couple months, you will pop back into this thread and go "Holy moley that was so hard!!" and wonder how your perfectly developing puppy could have been such an evil infant. And then you will breathe a sigh of relief for your superior puppy raising skills.


Never had a carrot in her life that I know of. I have only given her kibble, treats, and starting yesterday, some Cheerios as treats (big hit). I stuffed her Kong only with Kibble and a few treats. The vomit thing is SO weird.

I totally agree about the Giardia. I am going to basically ask my vet to treat her for it this aft even if we can't confirm it. She has had three bouts of diarrhea in three weeks. It gets better, then comes back. I am also sort of worried because she is a little skinny. I bet she has not gained since we were at the vet 10 days ago. 



hotel4dogs said:


> Does Shala do zoomies?


She does. Usually in the evenings when her demon dog comes out to play. :uhoh:


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

How warm do you keep your home? I'm told goldens often dig holes to create a cool underground spot to rest in. On hot days as a puppy, my dog would try to dig holes in the shade and attempt to rest in them- unfortunately they were often on other people's property in the middle of walks.  

Even as an adult dog, I visited some relatives at a beach house they were renting and he dug a gigantic hole in the sand larger than his body and laid down in it with his whole body completely below ground level. There was some kid with a giant shovel a little bit over who was struggling to create even a small hole in 20x the time it took my dog to create his extremely large hole with his bare paws. It was kind of funny. 

So, one thing is, you might want to consider keeping your home at a cooler temperature, if you can afford to and it won't be so cool as to make you uncomfortable.

The other thing is that sometimes goldens just like to dig. I've seen my golden try to dig holes in the dirt in the yard late at night in pretty cold weather too. I just distract him by waving a stick around or something or tell him to stop digging and he'll run around instead or something. Distraction is a good way to break the behavior. Give her something else to do instead. Just don't hand her a treat or a new toy anything, or they might see it as a reward and it could reinforce the behavior, but redirecting her to an existing toy that's already on the floor or something might be worth a try.


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## Nally (Jun 20, 2013)

Sweet Girl said:


> Never had a carrot in her life that I know of. I have only given her kibble, treats, and starting yesterday, some Cheerios as treats (big hit). I stuffed her Kong only with Kibble and a few treats. The vomit thing is SO weird.
> 
> I totally agree about the Giardia. I am going to basically ask my vet to treat her for it this aft even if we can't confirm it. She has had three bouts of diarrhea in three weeks. It gets better, then comes back. I am also sort of worried because she is a little skinny. I bet she has not gained since we were at the vet 10 days ago.


Let us know how the vet goes! I hope the little pup feels better soon. 

As for the scratching, I know you've said that no loud sounds you've tried so far have startled her enough into stopping, so maybe you could experiment with different loud things and see if she really dislikes something? I think I remember Tayla's mom saying something about an air horn in a different thread. I'm sure there are other loud (but safe) noise makers out there that you could try too. Maybe Shala will despise one of them. Or maybe try a spray bottle with water to correct? ...I know this usually works for cats but maybe for dogs too...?


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Flip tries to dig a hole in the couch when he gets excited. Digging indoors and zoomies seem to be interchangeable activities for him.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm thinking that's the case with Shala, too.



Loisiana said:


> . Digging indoors and zoomies seem to be interchangeable activities for him.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Golden999 said:


> How warm do you keep your home? I'm told goldens often dig holes to create a cool underground spot to rest in. On hot days as a puppy, my dog would try to dig holes in the shade and attempt to rest in them- unfortunately they were often on other people's property in the middle of walks.
> 
> Even as an adult dog, I visited some relatives at a beach house they were renting and he dug a gigantic hole in the sand larger than his body and laid down in it with his whole body completely below ground level. There was some kid with a giant shovel a little bit over who was struggling to create even a small hole in 20x the time it took my dog to create his extremely large hole with his bare paws. It was kind of funny.
> 
> ...


My house was pretty cold during the heat wave, and she scratched the AC vent, too. Right now, it is very cool here, so I'm not sure it's to get cool - I think it's more like a nervous thing. And she doesn't actually dig outside. Just scratches floors. :doh:



Nally said:


> Let us know how the vet goes! I hope the little pup feels better soon.
> 
> As for the scratching, I know you've said that no loud sounds you've tried so far have startled her enough into stopping, so maybe you could experiment with different loud things and see if she really dislikes something? I think I remember Tayla's mom saying something about an air horn in a different thread. I'm sure there are other loud (but safe) noise makers out there that you could try too. Maybe Shala will despise one of them. Or maybe try a spray bottle with water to correct? ...I know this usually works for cats but maybe for dogs too...?


I wondered about that, too. Like pennies in a jar or something. She may need an air horn! I actually wondered at one point about her hearing. 

We are back from the vet - she is being treated for Giardia (though it was not confirmed) and is on a prescription food for 6 weeks. Also a probiotic that she can take at the same time. The "baby carrots" in the vomit are a mystery to all. She has not actually pooped since her last diarrhea at 6am, but she has happily eaten rice twice. I will switch her to the gastro food tonight so that she is getting balanced nutrition, rather than just rice. She's a teeny thing - just 14.5 pounds. Poor thing has been at the vet far to many times in her short life. She was very good, though. Didn't even mind having her nails trimmed!

She came home, asked to be lifted onto the couch, and has been flaked out ever since.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Hey, Just checking on you and Shala, I'm so glad the vet is taking action and I will cross my fingers that this is the answer to her tummy woes. I was wondering if there is any place around your building where you could put a small covered sand box for her? I know it's a public building, but maybe in an out of the way spot, somewhere that ground crews might not notice it when mowing. I was thinking about the connection of the zoomies and the digging and thinking that it is right on. Just wondering if some appropriate digging might give her an outlet for extra energy or a place you could take her when she had a fit. My first Golden would get in the sandbox with my two year old daughter and dig with a vengeance. It was funny, but a good outlet. 

Just wanted you to know I'm thinking about you two and although I know it's been pretty hard on you, I'm SO glad that she is with you and not another family. I know everyone loves a sweet puppy, but your love and commitment to her are very special. You're going to get through this and she is going to be a very special girl.


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

When Murphy was a young puppy we always had marrow bones ,from Petco, filled with cream cheese in the freezer. Put one in the crate with him (usually at 6 am) for a little peace and quiet.


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## HolDaisy (Jan 10, 2012)

Sorry to hear about your troubles with Shala. She sounds extremely similar to Sammy in those early days. He was fine at night time after the first horrible week in the crate, but he was very, very demanding as a puppy. You couldn't leave the room without him barking non stop...and he wouldn't even be content if one person was with him, he was only happy when he could see all of us. Honestly though he just got better and better and has matured very quickly now and is such a good boy. I'm sure that Shala will be the same, as others have said it's all still new to her and she has got very attached to you extremely quickly.

We found that setting boundaries helped an incredible amount. We have our living room but right next to it a hall, which is like a living room but is central to the house. We got a babygate inbetween the two rooms where Sammy could see us, and us see him. It took a while but he got used to the fact that it WAS okay if we were slightly apart and he learnt to be more content with his own company and toys. We're very lucky with our set up though as there is always someone home. You can also try toys that will make her work and occupy her mind to keep her busy, such as a kong wobbler (it's great!).

Just keep doing what you are doing, honestly in a few months she will have changed and grown up so much and will be loads better! I'm glad the new x-pen layout is working better and hope you get her tummy issues sorted soon. She's such a good girl and she's so beautiful. It's so difficult though because it makes you feel bad having to ignore them when really you want to go for puppy cuddles because they're just too adorable! lol.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

If her "naughtiness" (as we lovingly call it) is genetic, it most likely could be traced back to this guy

Pedigree: Comstocks Steelcity Superman ** MH WCX CCA OS

Seems quite a few of his descendants were some wild child puppies!


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

Loisiana said:


> If her "naughtiness" (as we lovingly call it) is genetic, it most likely could be traced back to this guy
> 
> Pedigree: Comstocks Steelcity Superman ** MH WCX CCA OS



Hey, my Raider is a Steeler grandson and he hasn't ever been naughty!

Pedigree: U-CD U-RO1 Morningstar Treasure Eye'L CDX RA CGC/TDI


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## Toriaroo (Jun 24, 2013)

Luna is also a scratcher! It drives me insane. I cannot find a reason for it either - it happens when I'm nearby or not. My poor hardwoods are not appreciating her 'redecorating'. She is another one who is focused and not easily distracted when she's scratching (yelling, noises, etc did not phase her). The only way I've been able to slow it down is by standing in the spot where she is scratching. When she looks up at me and pauses, I praise and distract with a toy. She usually goes back several times (stubborn little thing!), but I keep repeating. I don't know if that's helpful, but know you aren't alone!


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## Ripley16 (Jan 26, 2012)

Sorry to hear that it's been taxing with Shala. It will get better! With Ripley, I found that setting boundaries was the key to minimizing her whining and separation anxiety. I started with her in her crate, sleeping with me in my room for 2 weeks. At this point, she was very anxious when I left the room any time of the day, and it was followed with constant whining. I attributed this to her being so young and being in a brand new home setting. After talking to some friends who had just come through the puppy stage, one suggested that I need to gradually move her crate further away from my room, so she would at least sleep away from me, so that when it came time for her to be in her own space at night (and during the day), she (and I) wouldn't have a hard transition. I went to 'babies r us' and bought a baby monitor, and moved her into the hall, maybe 5 metres from my bedroom door. She whined for the first little while, then quieted down. When she was fully comfortable there, I moved her down stairs (same process), then eventually into the family room where her crate was to stay. It worked miracles! With the baby monitor, I was still able to hear when she needed to go to the bathroom at night, but with her being in her own space. During the day, she just did her own thing when I put her in the xpen or gave her a stuffed kong when I needed to do household chores or have some much needed alone time! With her sleeping on her own and away from me, she was able to adjust to being on her own, which just helped her transition not only at night, but throughout the day as well. Honestly, it is worth a try. Hope this helps!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

my4goldens said:


> Hey, my Raider is a Steeler grandson and he hasn't ever been naughty!
> 
> Pedigree: U-CD U-RO1 Morningstar Treasure Eye'L CDX RA CGC/TDI


Oh there's lots of wonderfully behaved Steeler pups out there, Mira is also a steeler grand kid. But he's known for passing on some spitfire genes to some! ( and everyone reading please know I post this with a smile on my face, its not meant in a bad way at all - I don't know one person who regrets having Steeler behind their dog!)


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## Nally (Jun 20, 2013)

Just wanted to say that this thread is awesome and there are so many things to try here! I'll definitely come back to this when the time comes to bring a pup into my life. I hope Shala is feeling better today and something in this thread works for you and her!


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

hotel4dogs said:


> The real name for Zoomies is "F.R.A.P.S.", which stands for "Frenetic Random Activity Periods". I have to wonder if Shala's digging is her version of FRAPS? Rather than zoom around, she digs. It sounds exactly the same, with the total concentration, wild energy, etc. Most puppies do it several times a day.
> If you go online and google "canine fraps" you will see how common it is for them to turn into devil dogs in the early evenings. Just something they seem to need to do.
> People describe it as the dog seeming to be possessed.


I forgot to respond to this yetserday. She definitely fits this description - and it is almost always early evening. In fact, my friend wanted to bring her 7-yr-old son over around 7 one night, and I actually said, that's not usually her best time. I didn;t want her to be really bitey and crazy with him. 



Toriaroo said:


> Luna is also a scratcher! It drives me insane. I cannot find a reason for it either - it happens when I'm nearby or not. My poor hardwoods are not appreciating her 'redecorating'. She is another one who is focused and not easily distracted when she's scratching (yelling, noises, etc did not phase her). The only way I've been able to slow it down is by standing in the spot where she is scratching. When she looks up at me and pauses, I praise and distract with a toy. She usually goes back several times (stubborn little thing!), but I keep repeating. I don't know if that's helpful, but know you aren't alone!


This sounds exactly the same. I will try standing in the spot, too. There is a patch on my hardwood now that the light catches, and it looks awful. It will always be a reminder. I am now also trying to spray Bitter Yuck where she is scratching (I cover her eyes and nose so none goes in). I know at least once when she went back to scratch, she got her paw wet, and when she licked it she got completely distracted by the taste. Small victory.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

We had another sleepless night. After not pooping all day Monday after Sunday night's all night diarrhea party, she woke at 3am and we wound up going out three times between 3 and 4, and then basically every hour after that. She just has very small amounts of liquid diarrhea each time, but I guess it's enough to help her feel better.

We started the gastro food and fenbenzadole last night and she got a first dose of probiotics this morning. I hope the poor love feels better soon. No matter how challenging they can be during the day, when they wake you in the middle of the night and are so drowsy and not feeling well, your heart just melts. I am really starting to wonder if the feeling sick has been behind some of her behavioural issues. She was doing really well while her poops were good, and then she had the big fit Saturday morning - and the diarrhea resurfaced. It totally goes with Giardia - waxes and wanes. We have had three flare ups since she came home. I really hope this treatment will finally clear it up once and for all. 

Her energy otherwise seems good - she is playing with her toys and with the neighbour dogs. And she LOVES the gastro food. It looks like Corn Pops, so I'm not surprised.


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## Roushbabe (Feb 20, 2011)

I'm sorry you are going through this - you've gotten a lot of good advice already. Keisel had serious separation anxiety as well around this age and doing crate games and other things that had me go out of the room and back in helped a lot. I would start with just leaving the room and going to another room and coming back.. let him out of area with no reward. I think that was the key for us. He got his reward always when he went into the ex-pen or crate.. never when we let him out. Now when I go to grab a kong, he runs to his crate and waits patiently...almost like he is so excited to be left alone. 





Loisiana said:


> If her "naughtiness" (as we lovingly call it) is genetic, it most likely could be traced back to this guy
> 
> Pedigree: Comstocks Steelcity Superman ** MH WCX CCA OS
> 
> Seems quite a few of his descendants were some wild child puppies!


OMgoodness - LOVE this dog just for it's name! :-D Keisel is named for a player of the Steelers.. I'm seeing a future dog in my eyes from this stud if it's even possible! haha I'm a crazy Steelers fan - sorry!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I'm sorry you had a bad night. Hopefully the meds will kick in and the diarrhea will stop. Poor little one's tummy probably feels bad too.  Just throwing this out- and probably not the case with Shala, but our Toby does not tolerate probiotics- crazy as it seems. It gives him soft stool! :doh:


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## Ksdenton (Mar 17, 2013)

I know you can't give her treats right now but wondering how she'd react to some of the treat puzzles to focus her attention on. Maybe the mental stimulation would be good for her to distract from the scratching? Just a thought. I can only imagine your frustration right now. You are truly being tested. I don't know if I could handle it all at once like you're getting it but somehow we do. Hang in there, it will get better. If you're feeling overwhelmed take a break and have someone watch the puppy for an hour or so to get away or just get some sleep. I remember when my twins were born and my husband told me he was going to watch them for the day and me to get away to do whatever I want. I went to bed. I had no desire to shop or watch a movie or hang with friends. I just wanted some sleep to catch up on. It was wonderful and you can deal with stress better when you're well rested. 


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