# Ruff Love by Susan Garrett, anyone try this?



## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I would trust your gut on your concerns about using his crate in such a way, why run the risk of changing how he feels about being in it? An anxious/stressed dog can benefit from having what he feels is a 'safe place' to go to of his own choosing. I am not a fan of NILIF, preferring instead to focus on rewarding the offered behaviors I like, increasing the likelihood that the dog will repeat those behaviors, and in time putting them on cue, and interrupting and redirecting from unwanted behaviors to something more appropriate - teaching the dog what to do instead. 

I compare my reactive dog to a bored child, super smart but having no clue (at the time) what to do with his time or energy - he simply could not relax or 'settle' for any length of time. He benefited immensely from working on confidence building 'games', the use of 'shaping' games such as https://clickertraining.com/node/167, which allowed him to use his brain, and to learn to choose without fear of making a mistake, there is no 'wrong' when doing this. By giving him opportunity to use his brain and his nose playing ' Find it' - tossing treats/kibble in the grass, or hiding treats, etc. for him to find, works well for this. We also played around with agility equipment, was easy for him to learn it, teaches self control, and 'success' was easy for him to achieve.


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## lloyddobler (Nov 30, 2014)

Thank you for the advice. I will trust my gut on this one and re-focus on perfecting BAT and/or CARE techniques and other games and tricks to give his brain and nose a workout. I hadn't taken him on a focused walk for some time as I had gotten lazy. When he was younger he could not focus for more than a few seconds at a time. But now that he's almost 3, I found that he could focus on me much longer and it was incredibly fun. We even saw some dogs on our walk and he did get distracted by them, but I was able to get him to refocus much more quickly than I would have even a few months ago. I regret getting lazy and focusing on avoidance of other dogs moreso than managing and retaining his response when we see them to associate seeing dogs with positive things like good treats. Thank you for reminding me to trust my gut.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I love this book. I modified it a bit for my situation with Copley, but found it very helpful. It is important to put so much joy into the time you spend with the dog, and for the dog to look forward you your interactions greatly.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I tried Ruff Love with my Casey ... as an older dog and I will say the approach did not work for him.

What did work was building his confidence in 1) me being able to protect him and 2) his being confident in a variety of situations.

Casey became somewhat dog reactive after 3 unprovoked attacks (they truly were unprovoked since his back was turned in each case AND he was on leash and either in heel position or in one case on my lap). I confess I HATED B&W border collies for years for what happened with my Casey.

Different dogs need different approaches


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## lloyddobler (Nov 30, 2014)

Sunrise said:


> I tried Ruff Love with my Casey ... as an older dog and I will say the approach did not work for him.
> 
> What did work was building his confidence in 1) me being able to protect him and 2) his being confident in a variety of situations.
> 
> ...



Thank you for sharing your experience. I'm so sorry to hear about what happened to your Casey with the unprovoked attacks! What did you do to help him become more confident and protect him? 

I found this video today that gave me hope and inspiration: 




I'm not sure these techniques will work for my pup, but I will definitely employ using the flight response when we see other dogs to ensure my pup feels protected and understood. 

Thank you again! I love hearing about other folks' experiences to learn and try to help me figure out what will work for my boy. Similar to your pup, I believe Lloyd's issues with other dogs started from a negative/scary experience he had as a puppy when I brought him to my office. I work in a dog friendly office building and another person had brought in his two pit bull/boxer mixes. Lloyd and I walked by them and they ran up to the edge of the row and were behind a baby gate, but they both growled, barked, snarled, and lunged and sounded very mean. We didn't know they were there until we walked by and it scared both of us as it caught us by surprise! While they didn't touch him, I believe that scary experience stuck with my pup as he started reacting to dogs that looked similar initially.In fact, he never wanted to walk by that same area in my office again. He would try to pull me in the other direction any time I tried to walk him that way. He is now reactive to most dogs unfortunately.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I started stepping between him and any approaching dog. I started standing up for my dog...and no one, not a teacher, friend or mentor was ever allowed to touch his leash.

I made people wait at agility trials until the dog before us had exited the ring before removing his leash or starting a run.

I did a lot of focus work, engagement, play etc with him.

We never (and I still do not) went on group hikes while at seminars or at training camps.

Basically I no longer allowed any dog, other than my own dogs or trusted dogs, get in his face or too close to him. I could and did scoop him up if a dog came into the ring while he was working etc.

It worked, but it required diligence and a lot of training on both our parts  he needed to trust that I would take a bite for him (I did and still do as needed), that I would protect him and that when he felt doubts he could look to me for stability.


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## Summertime15 (May 15, 2015)

As an interesting contrast to the NILIF approach, I found it useful to read Kathy Sdao's book titled "Plenty in Life is Free."


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## lloyddobler (Nov 30, 2014)

Ljilly28 said:


> I love this book. I modified it a bit for my situation with Copley, but found it very helpful. It is important to put so much joy into the time you spend with the dog, and for the dog to look forward you your interactions greatly.


Curious if you would mind sharing what modifications you made? I'm a big softy, which I know has caused me to allow Lloyd too much freedom, hence not making the improvements I would like. I know I would struggle putting him in his crate whenever we are not training. In the last two days, I have started hand feeding him / rewarding him for behaviors I want and for doing tricks and general obedience, and while on walks as we see other dogs, etc. I'm trying to provide more structure, but am not sure if it will be enough. I think I now see where my dog gets his lack of confidence from.... I'm always second guessing myself.  Ha! I did find a good local trainer that I am trying to get a private appointment with, and hopefully soon. She has stated that every dog is different and tries a variety of things to meet each dog and each person's needs. I like to hear that as so many trainers only believe in one method. She doesn't use any aversive techniques, but will try a variety of positive approaches or combinations until we find something that seems to work for us. I'm very happy I found her and look forward to getting some hands on help.


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## Eclipse (Apr 21, 2014)

What worked for me with my dog's fear reactivity was the Look at That Game. Basic idea: keep at a distance where the dog is under threshold in training sessions.

So, I would take Penny to an active dog park - five acre lake that usually has 10-20 barking, running, swimming dogs. I filled a small jar with the highest possible value treat - peanut butter.

The behaviorist told me to stay at the far end of the parking lot the first week. I clicked/treated any time she looked at the dog park, then it taught her to orient to me whenever she heard or saw arousing/exciting stimulus. After the first week, if she was responding quickly to the click, I could move a foot closer. If still immediately looking at me after the click, I can keep moving closer. But if she chose to stare at the dog park and didn't respond to the click, it meant she was starting to go over threshold and we needed to move back - as far back as it takes to get the quick response again.

I got Penny to eventually remain calm with her nose touching the fence (not quickly, it took lots of patience) and even when dogs ran up curiously to see why a dog was on the other side of the fence. This created a solid foundation for agility. She watches dogs running their course but glances to me for a treat instead of barking at the dogs like she used to.


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## lloyddobler (Nov 30, 2014)

Eclipse said:


> What worked for me with my dog's fear reactivity was the Look at That Game. Basic idea: keep at a distance where the dog is under threshold in training sessions.
> 
> So, I would take Penny to an active dog park - five acre lake that usually has 10-20 barking, running, swimming dogs. I filled a small jar with the highest possible value treat - peanut butter.
> 
> ...


Thank you! That's wonderful you found something that helped you so much!!! I actually had a trainer suggest something similar to me in the past, but am concerned that people will let their dogs run free in the parking lot and put us in a position where a dog approaches us and we have nowhere to go. Did you have any issues with that at all? How often did you take her there? Every day? Once a week? I'm now thinking about all the dog parks in my area to figure out the best one for this type of activity where there would be less risk of owners letting their dogs run loose in parking lots, etc.


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## Eclipse (Apr 21, 2014)

lloyddobler said:


> Thank you! That's wonderful you found something that helped you so much!!! I actually had a trainer suggest something similar to me in the past, but am concerned that people will let their dogs run free in the parking lot and put us in a position where a dog approaches us and we have nowhere to go. Did you have any issues with that at all? How often did you take her there? Every day? Once a week? I'm now thinking about all the dog parks in my area to figure out the best one for this type of activity where there would be less risk of owners letting their dogs run loose in parking lots, etc.


What leash laws exist in your area? For my state, it's illegal for dogs to be off leash in any public place outside of dog parks. It's easier for me to handle a loose dog knowing it's not supposed to be off its leash. Loose dogs make me scared because most of them completely blow off their owner's commands + I treat them like they will attack my dog. I carry citronella spray and sometimes a hiking stick for walks, it makes me feel safe. I have sprayed multiple dogs that charged at me. I yell at the dogs if needed.

Some people did not have a leash on their dog when they took them into the park. I kept a diligent eye on dogs and put Penny in the car until the loose dog was in the park or back in their car even if they were far away.

I took Penny there almost every day for I think two - three months. Sometimes I took a day or two off. The park closes in the winter so dogs don't go through the ice. After that I just worked with her once a week at agility lessons where Penny would still have moments going over threshold but I could retreat to an empty room where she was able to think again.


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## lloyddobler (Nov 30, 2014)

Eclipse said:


> What leash laws exist in your area? For my state, it's illegal for dogs to be off leash in any public place outside of dog parks. It's easier for me to handle a loose dog knowing it's not supposed to be off its leash. Loose dogs make me scared because most of them completely blow off their owner's commands + I treat them like they will attack my dog. I carry citronella spray and sometimes a hiking stick for walks, it makes me feel safe. I have sprayed multiple dogs that charged at me. I yell at the dogs if needed.
> 
> Some people did not have a leash on their dog when they took them into the park. I kept a diligent eye on dogs and put Penny in the car until the loose dog was in the park or back in their car even if they were far away.
> 
> I took Penny there almost every day for I think two - three months. Sometimes I took a day or two off. The park closes in the winter so dogs don't go through the ice. After that I just worked with her once a week at agility lessons where Penny would still have moments going over threshold but I could retreat to an empty room where she was able to think again.


There are leash laws here, but many ignore them as they aren't highly enforced. I live in Seattle, WA which is a town that has more dogs than children. There are dogs everywhere, which makes this issue even a bigger one! The dog parks are always so busy and chaotic here. I am going to try to find one that is a bit more rural and may be less busy and give it a try. I like the idea of having a stick or something for an emergency.

Thank you!


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