# different retriever breeds



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

An excellent article, posted on another forum:

Retriever Breeds in Training


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

I thoroughly enjoyed reading that! Thanks


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

I enjoyed that too!


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## Laurie (Sep 20, 2009)

Ditto for me.....

Thanks!!!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I'm glad they prefaced the article with "only applies to field bred" goldens. 

I was going to say that I've never owned a golden who responded to corrections by turning on his trainer.


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## Golden Gibby (Jan 8, 2011)

Good article. thanks for the link


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

Megora said:


> I'm glad they prefaced the article with "only applies to field bred" goldens.
> 
> I was going to say that I've never owned a golden who responded to corrections by turning on his trainer.


The quote that specifically said anything about field bred was tuned in, not turn on. "the field-type Golden is extremely tuned in to its handler--and stays tuned in"


It doesn't specify the breeding behind the comment that they find a golden more likely to bite. "find them the most likely to bite the trainer in resistance to training pressure" My field breds (and the loads of other field breds I know) would never dream of biting their handler either. It's probably a flaw in individuals or maybe specific lines rather than something seen in lots of goldens.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> In our experience, they are at least as likely to initiate a fight as males of the other two breeds, possibly more so. We also find them the most likely to bite the trainer in resistance to training pressure, and accordingly use a little more caution in application of pressure to Goldens.


^ This was the snippet I responded to.

At the beginning of the article they said the characterizations only apply to those dogs bred for field work.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Aww they did not mention the flatties


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

GoldenSail said:


> Aww they did not mention the flatties


I had the same thought!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

the Dahls are quite famous in the retriever training world, and have trained a whole lot of dogs. They are speaking of their own personal experiences when they refer to goldens being more likely to bite the trainer or to start a fight, as she says, "*In our experience*, they are at least as likely to initiate a fight as males of the other two breeds, possibly more so. *We also find them the most likely to bite the trainer in resistance to training pressure, and accordingly use a little more caution in application of pressure to Goldens."
*Apparently they have had some of those issues with goldens that they personally have trained.


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## aerolor (May 27, 2011)

GoldenSail said:


> Aww they did not mention the flatties


 
Shame about not including the flatcoated retriever, who is the most natural and versatile of retrievers - in my opinion the flatcoat is supreme - and is also a very old breed, much older than the Golden or Labrador. and also (I think?) the Chesapeake.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

What about, nova scotia tollers?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

just as a guess, I'm guessing maybe the Dahls don't get enough Flat Coats or Nova Scotia Duck Tollers in for training for them to feel comfortable making generalizations like they did for the Labradors, Goldens, and Chessies.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

goldensrbest said:


> What about, nova scotia tollers?


The article was written some time ago, before the Toller found greater favour. Flatcoats have been fairly rare in the field for quite a while. We see more Irish Water Spaniels than Flatcoats.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

GoldenSail said:


> Aww they did not mention the flatties



Love watching a Flatcoat run. Every time I see one in a test my heart runs with em.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

goldensrbest said:


> What about, nova scotia tollers?


I think they are being pushed into something they were not bred to do. I would like to have one but I think the current games are not their venue. UKC would be a better stage for them to shine. Make no mistake I love em.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> the Dahls are quite famous in the retriever training world, and have trained a whole lot of dogs. They are speaking of their own personal experiences when they refer to goldens being more likely to bite the trainer or to start a fight, as she says, "*In our experience*, they are at least as likely to initiate a fight as males of the other two breeds, possibly more so. *We also find them the most likely to bite the trainer in resistance to training pressure, and accordingly use a little more caution in application of pressure to Goldens."
> *Apparently they have had some of those issues with goldens that they personally have trained.


In my experience that is a true statement.


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

Nice article. I too wondered about the Flatties being left out. In part because we see this big boy pictured all the time. I have not seen the girls in a while though, very few Flatties around here. Great dogs.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

@goldens vs labs - all I can say is... 

I thought my Jacks was genius for doing off leash heeling with instant sits at the same age. :

Casting Drill 8 week old Puppy | Training Retriever Puppies | video clip


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I had the distinct pleasure of training with Mitch White several times over the summer, a pro trainer/handler who works with all the retriever breeds but breeds FCRs. He definitely has the nicest working FCRs I have ever seen in the HT world. If you listen closely to Mitch while he's running a dog or coaching someone to run their own dog, he keeps up a running commentary of the dog's thoughts while working, I finally realized, his little "voice" totally is a flat-coat talking! "OOh I see a bird, oh wait, there's a butterfly, oh no hafta get the bird...." such a flatcoat! LOL 
Much like the curly-coats I think there are a lot of FCRs, CCRs & tollers with an immense amount of talent if only their owners would treat them like real retrievers and train them properly, rather than convincing themselves their dogs are fragile wallflowers who can't take pressure or perpetual puppies who cannot be held to a high standard.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Anney I think the physical demands are a factor also. No doubt the talent is there but the strength, stamina and size I think is also is a challenge to them. Training methods are as you said a factor.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

One thing too is they say flat coats are the peter pan of the retriever world...but I don't think they are really more slow maturing than some goldens.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Radarsdad said:


> Anney I think the physical demands are a factor also. No doubt the talent is there but the strength, stamina and size I think is also is a challenge to them. Training methods are as you said a factor.


You mean for the tollers? I guess, although with the logic of size then a great dane would be better suited as a field dog. I do agree that the AKC hunt test & field trial games are not one size fits all and some breeds are better suited to it than others.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

There is a lady who trains in our obedience building who has vizlas and is worried now that they are able to participate in hunt tests because she feels like they are not built for that.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

A friend who breeds, trains and shows Tollers brought in her bitch who just earned her MH and became the second CH MH Toller bitch in history. She told me about one of females she bred who hunts with her owners. The owner shot a goose but did not kill it and the goose then attacked the dog! The dog was a small Toller, but would have had trouble handling the goose even if it had been killed.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

aerolor said:


> Shame about not including the flatcoated retriever, who is the most natural and versatile of retrievers - in my opinion the flatcoat is supreme - and is also a very old breed, much older than the Golden or Labrador. and also (I think?) the Chesapeake.


I believe the Flat Coat is maybe 50 years older than the Golden and the breeds did not get to their final form until the early twentieth century.

I found the comments about the Goldens nose and tendency to quarter interesting and reflects their Setter and Bloodhound blood.


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