# Puppy Strangles AND HOD



## Heidi36oh (Feb 27, 2007)

Sorry don't know anything on either one, I'm sure there is someone that can answer you're questions. Good Luck!


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

bumping up


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## BillGunnerandGeorge (Aug 28, 2008)

I hope someone can help you but I know nothing about it.Sorry that you have to go through that. Good Luck


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## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

Im so sorry you and your little puppy have to go through this. I hope you find some help for him. My prayers are with you.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

I am somewhat familiar with both. Our DD, as a pup, had Puppy Strangles (Juvenile Cellulitis) when she was only about 3 weeks old. She was treated with prednisone, and was fine in about a week. However, not all cases are as easy to handle. Some are much more difficult to cure. It's an autoimmune disorder.

A friend with an older Newf....I believe he's 3 or 4 years old, recently came down with Puppy Strangles (which is very rare in a dog that age)....and it took quite a while to get him healthy again. Even though the steroids are necessary, they caused a lot of problems...side effects. He's fine now, but it was a very expensive, very lengthy process.

I first heard about HOD on my Newf Forum about 3 years ago. One of the pups there had it. It's more common in Giant Breeds than in smaller dogs. But, there is a genetic component to it.

The ortho docs said he (the Newf, Apache) needed lots of surgery....and it was very expensive. However, instead of the surgery....a friend who recognized the problem and had some experience with it, recommended that they change his diet. The surgeons disagreed and said he absolutely needed surgery. He never had the surgery.

He's doing just fine now. Not absolutely perfect, but he was older than your pup when it was diagnosed. He can run, play...everything. No bent bones anymore, but his front legs will still go down in the pasterns when he's very tired.

Here's a link for Linda Arndt....The Great Dane Lady. There are some photos of dogs with HOD. You might want to give her a call..and read the link below which explains the feeding program for dogs with HOD. Won't hurt if you can't do anything while your pup is being treated for PS. In fact, it could help. It worked for Apache (the Newf)

http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/feed_program_for_hod.htm

I wish your pup all the best. He's going through some hard times right now. I hope they can straighten him out very soon...and that the PS are a very mild, manageable case. Lots of good thoughts being sent.


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## flyaway (Jul 30, 2008)

Thanks everyone, for your well wishes.

Ardeagold... thanks for your post... I contacted the GreatDaneLady. I've also emailed a vet school prof who has published a paper on HOD that also mentioned a couple study subjects who simultaneously had puppy strangles.

The problem with the treatment is actually the opposite of what you read from my post, though... the HOD is being treated, but not the puppy strangles.  So no steroids for the puppy strangles... didn't want to give steroids to an HOD dog. But I'm not sure they're right about that.

We'll see... I hope that the specialist at Michigan State who saw him for the HOD will get back to us soon, since we wrote her about our local vet's puppy strangles diagnosis. And, of course, if the puppy strangles gets worse, we're going to freak out and be back at our vet's office, probably with internet research in hand. I know that's terribly obnoxious, but we're crazy about Riley and want to do the best for him.

He's in really good spirits, though. I mean, more tired than usual, but he definitely has plenty of playful times throughout the day. And he eats... not quite as much as usual, but then he's hardly burning any calories, since he can't walk.


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## flyaway (Jul 30, 2008)

Update: they're going to start him on the Prednisone! So I feel much better about that. My husband took our other Golden (Zoe) to the vet this morning during emergency hours to get her treated for a recurrence of the urinary tract infection we thought she had just gotten over. He saw another vet in the practice and talked to her about Riley's situation and the reading we had done, and how everything had said that puppy strangles HAS to be treated by steroids, and that some even treat HOD with steroids. So she went back and did some research and agreed that he should be started on steroids. We go back at 2 p.m. for that. That will be vet visit number 6 for us this week! 5 for Riley and 1 for Zoe.

I feel more optimistic now. I know we're not out of the woods, bc the steroids will really lower his immune system. But I'm glad we'll be treating the puppy strangles.


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## PeanutsMom (Oct 14, 2007)

I adopted a female golden who was pregnant. Two out 8 of her pups came down with strangles between 7 and 10 weeks, I think thats when. The steroids were a necessity from everything I read. They also had her on antibiotics to treat any secondary infections. It sounds like your pup is getting the absolute best care, so everything will work out


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Moderate to severe cases of HOD often precipitate secondary, systemic immune related illnesses, so the strangles would follow the HOD.

I presume that the vet told you to get the dog off of high caloric food, putting him on a low calorie adult food, and to discontinue any supplements, especially Vitamin C, which is thought to contribute to HOD in high doses. 
Treatment for HOD is usually supportive - IV fluids if dehydrated, and generally non-steroidal anti-inflammatories (which of couse is counter indicated due to the strangles.)


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm glad to hear they are going to treat the strangles, I was worried. I hope it's a mild case and clears up quickly.


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## flyaway (Jul 30, 2008)

No, they didn't mention anything about diet. We currently have him on Purina Pro Plan Puppy for Large Breeds. You think switching to adult food is the right thing to do?

He was on metacam for the HOD (along with antibiotic and tramadal), but now that he'll be on the prednisone, we were told to wait 24-48 hours from his last dose of metacam to start the prednisone. And to discontinue the metacam, of course.

Mylissik, compared to some pictures I've seen of HOD and puppy strangles, he doesn't look that bad! So I hope that means it really isn't too severe a case of either condition, though I know appearance isn't everything.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

flyaway said:


> No, they didn't mention anything about diet. We currently have him on Purina Pro Plan Puppy for Large Breeds. You think switching to adult food is the right thing to do?
> 
> He was on metacam for the HOD (along with antibiotic and tramadal), but now that he'll be on the prednisone, we were told to wait 24-48 hours from his last dose of metacam to start the prednisone. And to discontinue the metacam, of course.
> 
> Mylissik, compared to some pictures I've seen of HOD and puppy strangles, he doesn't look that bad! So I hope that means it really isn't too severe a case of either condition, though I know appearance isn't everything.


Diet plays a very important role in it. The Pro Plan for large breeds should be okay, but I would check with the vet to see if going to adult for the time being would be indicated.


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Be sure to continue the prednisone for a week after all clinical signs of the strangles have been resolved. It is much more difficult to cure a recurrence than to keep the pup on pred for the time it really takes to effect a cure. You might ask your vet (or contact a dermatology vet) whether an equally potent dosage of dexamethasone would be appropriate for your pup, given the concerrent HOD.


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## flyaway (Jul 30, 2008)

OK, back from the vet with prednisone in hand! Enough for 12 days, and then the dose will probably be adjusted to keep up with his growing weight.

I asked about the food, and at first she said yes, definitely the adult food. But then when I said Riley was on the large breed puppy food, she thought he would be fine staying on that. She thought the difference between adult food and large breed puppy food was really marketing.

I'm canceling Puppy Kindergarten for Zoe, to be on the safe side, in terms of her being exposed to other dogs and then bringing something home that could infect Riley while his immune system is lowered. Hopefully in a month or so they can both be enrolled!


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## flyaway (Jul 30, 2008)

Here are pics from a few weeks ago. Riley is the one in my arms.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I am so sorry you are facing all this with your puppies. Wishing all the best to Zoe and Riley.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Corticosteroids should be administered for a _minimum _of 3-4 weeks when treating strangles, adjusting for weight, even if all visible symptoms are gone. The puppy must be weaned off of them, never stopped steroid treatment abruptly.


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## flyaway (Jul 30, 2008)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure she intends for it to last longer than the 12 days... it's just that she wants to check him at 10-12 days to readjust for his weight. And she definitely mentioned the weaning. Right now (or as of tomorrow, as soon as the metacam is out of his system) he's on 10 mg twice a day. At first she wanted 15 mg twice a day, but she just called us on the phone to ask us only to give 1/2 instead of 3/4 tabs (of 20 mg tabs). I think she's nervous about the high dosage.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Will she give him pain medicine of some other kind for HOD? Does she suspect an encounter with either distemper/distemper vacine or is that not really proven to be related?


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## flyaway (Jul 30, 2008)

He's on Tramadal. That's what she initially gave him when she didn't know what was wrong, and then the specialist who diagnosed HOD (before the puppy strangles diagnosis) said to keep him on that on top of the Metacam he was prescribing, because the two work differently. I guess only the Metacam (bc it's a NSAID) is bad to have with the Prednisone, but the Tramadal is OK.

His pain level has significantly improved from earlier this week... so hopefully that's indicative of actual improvement, rather than just masking the pain. I guess we'll find out once the Metacam is out of his system.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

You can't give a NSAID with a corticosteroid. That's why the wait time in between.

The steroids will suppress the immune system, make him really hungry and thirsty, and he will pee A LOT, so be prepared for accidents. It's NOT his fault....it's the Pred. It can also make him think he's super dog...so beware of erratic behavior. (Does that to humans too). He may be much more active than normal, less sleep. That can make them irritable...so if his behavior changes, it's the Pred. Just thought you should be prepared for these things.

You can help his HOD a great deal with diet. Hopefully you can get hold of Linda Arndt and she'll work with you and your Vet. She has a great deal of expertise in this. I suspect the puppy food will go bye bye....but definitely get verification of that.

Wishing you all the very best. Hugs to Riley!


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## flyaway (Jul 30, 2008)

Thanks! I can't wait to get him started on the Prednisone tonight. I hope we start to see the difference quickly. Poor boy. I have to go out of town for one night, and I miss him already!


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## flyaway (Jul 30, 2008)

Does anyone out there with puppy strangles experience want to share what you ended up doing in terms of vaccinations afterwards?


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

It is advisable to do the vaccines separately, and space them apart, so as to know what is being reacted to if the dog has an adverse reaction.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

I'm sure your Vet won't want to vaccinate him until he's totally healthy. And even then do what PG said....one vaccination PER DISEASE...spaced a couple of weeks apart. That means no DHLPP (that's FIVE separate diseases). Distemper one week...Hepatitis a couple of weeks later....Lepto after that...etc etc.

And do NOT take him places with you until he's totally over the Puppy Strangles - not even on neighborhood walks. As much as they need socialization....his immune system is in shambles and would be extremely susceptible to anything "out there'. (And there's plenty all over the ground)

Also, while he's ill...I wouldn't let him around other dogs (in the neighborhood) and I'd probably take off shoes before entering the house...and dip the bottoms in a bleach/water solution before bringing them in. Diseases (like Parvo) can be brought in on your shoes (and hands, of course).

How's he doing after his first night of Pred?


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## flyaway (Jul 30, 2008)

I just talked to my husband (I'm traveling a lot right now... law student interviewing with law firms), you were spot on about the superpuppy thing! He is apparently extremely playful and energetic and doing weird jumping things and is walking better than he has since the HOD started. But, of course, he's not supposed to be walking, so we have him cooped up in a pen, and he's bored/frustrated.

It looks like the swelling around his eyes has gone down a little. 

We're trying to limit where Zoe goes, so she doesn't bring anything back to Riley... but we have been doing little neighborhood walks with her. I guess we should be more careful about washing off her paws when she comes back.


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## flyaway (Jul 30, 2008)

Riley update:

The prednisone made a huge difference; his eyes look great (still a little bald in a very thin line around his eyes, but that might grow back). His mouth doesn't look quite as good, up underneath, but that probably just needs to heal... it's definitely not actively getting worse. His walking is OK. Still limpy, and of course, he gets very frustrated when we confine him so that he will take it easy. 

His fur is kind of doing crazy things, like he has a stripe of redder, more adult fur down his back, with more downy fur on the sides. The vet thinks that might be the result of what he's going through. And Zoe is really outpacing him in growth. I don't mind if Riley ends up small, though, as long as he is healthy! He started out smaller and rounder, but the two of them had just started to get hard to tell apart before he had his problems, and now it's SUPER easy to tell them apart, even without being able to see any indications of puppy strangles without being close up.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Our springer Cody was on huge doses of pred for another autoimmune disease (AIHA) for months before tapering and finally getting off. Remember that pred also masks any discomfort or pain. There's also the issue of drinking tons of water and peeing ALOT..... it's all just part of the side effects.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

> His fur is kind of doing crazy things, like he has a stripe of redder, more adult fur down his back, with more downy fur on the sides.


That's generally how they get their adult coat. All puppies I've ever had have gone through that. The redder fur is what his adult guard hairs (outer coat) will look like on his body. The undercoat will probably be lighter tho...unless he's from red lines.

That said....Pred can make the fur do really weird things over time. Hopefully he's not on it too long, and gets over this mess soon.

Glad to hear he's doing well. And what did you find out about the HOD and diet?


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## Pashasmomma (Sep 27, 2017)

*Puppy Strangles*

I am a brand new momma to out 11 week old Pasha. She is currently in the vets care now to see if what we are dealing with is puppy strangles. They are also concerned about distemper because of the area she came from(Visalia)her symptoms were a sudden runny nose (clear) , lethargy and loss of appetite. My hopes are that steroids will help her improve and if it is distemper that we caught it early enough. I noticed last week she seemed a bit stiff in her back limbs. Im wondering if my pup is experiencing something similar to yours?


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