# Trying to understand why....



## Chelseanr (Oct 3, 2010)

So I have spent hours and hours and days and days pouring over Rowan's pedigree, searching for kennels and breeders, ofa, cerfs, longevity on and on and on. My eyeballs are ready to roll back into my head.

I keep coming back to one point... Rowan's Mom has a somewhat respectable pedigree with many champions 2-3 generations back, and his dad a little less with them being 4-5 generations back. I don't understand why champions are bred into these weird lines, for weird kennels with different purposes? One of the main lines in Rowan's sires pedigree breeds 3 different breeds and *shudder* doodles. Why would anyone with enough love for the breed to show and earn championships breed out willy nilly? Especially considering half of the breeding pairs on rowans sire's side have NO health clearances as far as I can tell, I even emailed the doodle kennel and she claims she does hips and eyes (I can find CERF for most but no hips..) but has no problems with elbows or cardiac and her lines are good so she doesn't do them. 

Just a bit confused I suppose... 

Thanks for anyone who takes the time to read this and explain anything to me, and I am searching still to try and locate some of the kennels in the pedigrees and would love any assistance possible with that!


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

The money would be my guess?


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

Good questions, which I can't begin to answer. Bumping up.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

It would be helpful if you could post a link to the pedigree, so we could look at it. I recently looked at a pedigree, and saw a dog with the Malagold kennel prefix on it and was shocked, as the pedigree was not good at all. In checking a little further, the dog with the Malagold kennel name on it, had nothing to do with the actual Malagold kennel-at least not in the five generations back that I went 

And, as I am sure you have already realised, not checking elbows and hearts because "her lines are good", is bogus. If you don't check, it's easy to say you have no problems and, especially with hearts, the problem can hide in carriers for several generations only to pop up seemingly out of nowhere. If you don't check, you may never know.


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## Chelseanr (Oct 3, 2010)

I don't have them in the K9 database but I can email them or maybe pm them, will do when I get home :] just leaving work.


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## Chelseanr (Oct 3, 2010)

Sorry for the double post, I've begun putting all the info into the lines rowan came from, will have to keep adding the clearances when I have time

Rowan's Pedigree

P.s - will my breeder get mad at me for adding her dogs to this? I hope not :[ I really love my breeder.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

Rowan's breeder is a byb'd. Granted she does clearances and registers the pups, but what else do they do with the dogs aside from that? I don't see anything saying they are active in agility, obedience, conformation - so I'm guessing they have nice pets that they breed. Her sire does not have clearances yet, so that's not a good sign, not a lot of clearances anywhere in fact, nor titles until you get way, way, way back in the pedigree. Unless that information is missing somehow on k9data for all those dogs.

I'm sure she's a very nice person but she's not what I'd call a good breeder personally. If someone were to come on here asking for advice there are many, many other local breeders I'd suggest instead of this one. 

My girl's breeder's last litter, as an example of the difference:
Pedigree: Goldcker Out N A Boat - he's in a working/pet home, very nice pup. 

This is not to trash Rowan, but just to show the difference. To ask why your breeder bred what she did, I'm guessing money and she owns the male - it's quite likely that she'd have a hard time getting any reputable stud dog owners to agree to breed to her girl with the lack of clearances, titles and so on there. It's the case of the 'we have nice dogs so let's breed' thing.

As for the doodle breeder having 'clean lines' so things don't need to be tested..... just a load! There are many dogs who fail hips and elbows but never show signs of it ever - they just adapt and keep running. Doesn't mean it's ok.

Which kennels/dogs are you looking for? Might be able to find out some info if you need it.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

The policy to have mandatory spay/neuter clauses in puppy contracts, and to some extent having puppy contracts at all is a relatively recent trend in breeding/placing puppies. If you go far enough back to get to the titled dogs in Rowan's pedigree, they may have been born at a time when these clauses were not common.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

The finished dogs are so far back in the pedigree that about all I can say is things were different back then. When I first started in Goldens in the mid to late 70's, it was not at all uncommon for owners of titled stud dogs with a great pedigree to breed to BYB'ers. The reasoning was "If I don't breed my dog, who has clearances and is a good representative of the breed, to her bitch, she will just find somebody else with a dog not as good as mine and with no clearances. At least this litter will be an improvement on what she has and what she would otherwise produce." You really don't hear that nowadays but as mentioned above, a lot of the spay/neuter, limited registration and selling on contracts, is fairly new.


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