# Training towards competitive obedience



## kgiff (Jul 21, 2008)

I haven't used them (or heard of them). 

I start training my puppies the day they get home on the basics -- their name, sit, down, leave it, take it, stay, and have them in classes by 10 or 11 weeks old depending on when I can find a class starting. 

My pup is almost 2 and I haven't done a lot of research on therapy organizations yet as I think he has a bit more growing up to do before he starts doing therapy work.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

Oh, yeah...training begins day 1! There are several options, the usual Petco, Petsmart, then this private trainer I found online, then on to serious obedience....

I didn't think that I'd get to therapy until 3 or so...I've read about terrible twos and I think it would be detrimental to rush. My dogs got their obedience through sheep, since unlike competitive obedience we wanted the focus to be on the sheep, eyes always on the sheep in case they have to cover an escape. This is a 180 degree change from what I'm used to doing.

My problem is I'm an information technology program manager and I have my life on Visio and Project!!!! Everything is flowcharted out!!! Joking...kinda....


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I started Quiz with a goal of competitive obedience when I got him at 8 weeks. Lots of urban socialization, lots of interactive play with you, building up to even around distractions and out in public. Quick response to his name, a tight tuck-up sit, down from a stand and an emergency recall (vs a formal obedience recall) were the things I heavily focused on. I also did lots of fun puppy strutting where I used him basically nursing a treat in my hand to walk along side me at heel with his head up.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

They can surprise you when you take them to therapy dog training. I seriously only took Danny because it was the only training class available at the time. He was just over a year old when we started classes. As soon as we started going into the retirement homes, he became a totally different dog. Calm and quiet and extremely gentle with people. He's 3 1/2 now and works with autistic kids at the local elementary school. He is fabulous with them!


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

fostermom, that's my dream!!!! To be able to go to a hospital and bring the kind of love only a dog can bring!!!!!

You gave me goosebumps talking about his work!

Stephanie - what do you mean by a quick tuck up sit?


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Lilliam - Ranger is getting ready for his therapy dog test, too. We failed our first one, unfortunately. An owner picked up his little lap dog in the first "testing room" and Ranger immediately locked on to it and proceeded to stare at him for the next 5 minutes. Ranger loves to stare at little dogs when they're held or on laps...no idea why. But they asked us to come back next spring to try again when he's a little older and less "unfocused" (more like focused on the wrong thing).

I'm just going to give you a head's up since I came from training a border collie to training a golden/flat coat cross...it's a lot different. I realize Ranger is a bit of a special case in his stubborness and lacking the golden retriever will to please, but still...My old border collie would learn new things in ten minutes and with Ranger it takes days, if not weeks, and he's a smart dog. There's nothing like that border collie super-intelligence. I used to get so frustrated with Ranger the first few weeks I had him before I calmed down and started trying to figure out WHY he wasn't learning. Just a heads up!


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

I would strongly recommend getting one of your BC into a comp obed class so you have an idea of what you are working towards and some of the differences between basic training and competition training.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Lilliam said:


> Stephanie - what do you mean by a quick tuck up sit?


Generally in competition work, you want a sit where the dog plants his front feet and tucks his rear end tightly underneath him vs. rocking backwards (sometimes taking a step in the process) and landing on his butt.

You can qualify with either, but a tuck-sit is cleaner, more precise for maintaining heel position, looks better (IMO) and therefore, is preferred.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

RedDogs said:


> I would strongly recommend getting one of your BC into a comp obed class so you have an idea of what you are working towards and some of the differences between basic training and competition training.


Thank you for the suggestion...I might try that with Dru, my older boy. Let me explain....

In competitive obedience, what I have seen and read, is that the dog must be completely focused on the handler. I have seen the dog locked onto the handler. In herding, the opposite is true. What is desired is a dog who locks onto the sheep. It's referred to as not breaking contact. The reason behind it is that if a dog is working range ewes, such as the ones on trials, he has to expect the unexpected. Range ewes are ewes that are completely unaccustomed to dogs and are likely to bolt at the slightest provocation. A pushy dog can put them into the next field, literally. So trial dogs (my guys) are encouraged to "watch your sheep" in early training and maintained. Dru has learned to maintain contact with me only through whistles, at distances of anywhere from 10 to 650 yards away or more, depending on the field or whether I'm at the pen or the shed - I switch to voice commands only at close work. Neither he nor Billy will look at me. Since Dru is now eleven and his trialing days will be over in about a year to a year and a half, I can introduce different behaviours without fear of damaging his future.

It would be interesting, teaching an old dog new tricks! where can i find classes? I looked in the AKC website...anywhere else?


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Generally in competition work, you want a sit where the dog plants his front feet and tucks his rear end tightly underneath him vs. rocking backwards (sometimes taking a step in the process) and landing on his butt.
> 
> You can qualify with either, but a tuck-sit is cleaner, more precise for maintaining heel position, looks better (IMO) and therefore, is preferred.


wow, that must be very precise to train.....


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

Ranger said:


> Lilliam - Ranger is getting ready for his therapy dog test, too. We failed our first one, unfortunately. An owner picked up his little lap dog in the first "testing room" and Ranger immediately locked on to it and proceeded to stare at him for the next 5 minutes. Ranger loves to stare at little dogs when they're held or on laps...no idea why. But they asked us to come back next spring to try again when he's a little older and less "unfocused" (more like focused on the wrong thing).
> 
> I'm just going to give you a head's up since I came from training a border collie to training a golden/flat coat cross...it's a lot different. I realize Ranger is a bit of a special case in his stubborness and lacking the golden retriever will to please, but still...My old border collie would learn new things in ten minutes and with Ranger it takes days, if not weeks, and he's a smart dog. There's nothing like that border collie super-intelligence. I used to get so frustrated with Ranger the first few weeks I had him before I calmed down and started trying to figure out WHY he wasn't learning. Just a heads up!


Yup, I'm expecting that the dog will approach training differently from the BCs. I'm hoping they won't be as intense, as tightly wound. When I talked to Sue I specifically asked for a calm, biddable puppy, not one who thinks he knows better than I do what I want him to do. The hyperintelligence in the border collie is a pain in the proverbial derriere to work with - yes, it's ridiculously easy to get anything trained, but in the field the blood takes over and you're in for the ride. It's great when they can problem solve while they're 650 or 700 yard away and they have to resolve something quickly, but it's a pain when you're trying to teach a shed or shed a single.
Thank you for the heads up. I'm hoping the golden will be more of a team player....I'm certain that in sheepdog trials, when we lose a trial, it's because of me, not the BCs, and that they resent me losing it for them.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

Dogs can learn different behaviors for different types of work. I doubt watching the sheep is much different than a field dog being expected to have his eyes on the field in front of him rather than walk up to the line with his eyes on his handler. Lots of dogs do both high level field and high level obedience. I'm sure you can teach your older dog to look at you on command without deminishing his desire to watch sheep when in that environment.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I was going to say the same thing as Sarah. Goldens are expected to focus on what's going on out in the field, otherwise they'd miss their marks. And plenty of dogs do obedience and herding also.


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## kgiff (Jul 21, 2008)

Lilliam said:


> Oh, yeah...training begins day 1! There are several options, the usual Petco, Petsmart, then this private trainer I found online, then on to serious obedience....


Honestly there are a lot of good schools and trainers in the area and I wouldn't be considering Petco or Petsmart even for puppy or basic obedience. In some areas it might be fine, but in the DC area, there are so many other options. I'd go and observe classes in the area and talk to instructors about what your goals are. Make sure the person or people you chose to train with have competed with a dog and know what is expected. Anyone can teach a basic obedience class, but like Stephanie said, you want to teach a tuck under sit and you don't want to teach a down by sitting the dog and then luring into a down. 

I just got back from my novice obedience class and the precision and expectations we have in class far exceed what it takes to pass in the ring. Which I really appreciate.


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

They may not offer classes, but I bet they could steer you towards some nice recommendations--PVGRC (Potomac Valley Golden Retriever Club). Why not email the Board of Directors, or if you can go to the K9 Olympics on the 19th, bet that would be fun!

http://www.pvgrc.org/index.htm

I took privates from an obedience instructor who put an OTCH. . .on her senior Border Collie. They were awesome to watch. She would occasionally get dinged by some judges because her BC would bark several times while competing. Her BC was trying to give the commands to her, that's what it looked like sometimes! It got to a point, as they neared their OTCH, that she knew which judges were more forgiving than others.

I put a CD on a 10 year old golden--I believe you can teach old dogs new tricks, no doubt about it!


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

rappwizard said:


> They may not offer classes, but I bet they could steer you towards some nice recommendations--PVGRC (Potomac Valley Golden Retriever Club). Why not email the Board of Directors, or if you can go to the K9 Olympics on the 19th, bet that would be fun!
> 
> http://www.pvgrc.org/index.htm
> 
> ...



True, and I'm getting older and slowing down myself!!!! :

I saw that schedule! I am so excited that we were thinking about going on the 30th...by that date I'll know if I'm in on the Rascal breeding or not!


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

IowaGold and Loisiana - yes, I imagine you're right. I've never seen live field work....I probably sound childish, but I hate to see a bird get shot. That's my problem, I have to deal with that. My grandfather loved hunting, and although I loved his stories of how he trained his dogs, I always hated the fact that he actually shot living things.

That's my issue, I have a problem. I am not a vegan or anything, but I suppose I'm a hypocrite. Like I said, it's a problem of mine.

I do love watching the dogs work, though. I love seeing them going out, jumping in and bringing the game. I just wish I weren't such a baby.:no:


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

Lilliam said:


> IowaGold and Loisiana - yes, I imagine you're right. I've never seen live field work....I probably sound childish, but I hate to see a bird get shot. That's my problem, I have to deal with that. My grandfather loved hunting, and although I loved his stories of how he trained his dogs, I always hated the fact that he actually shot living things.
> 
> That's my issue, I have a problem. I am not a vegan or anything, but I suppose I'm a hypocrite. Like I said, it's a problem of mine.
> 
> I do love watching the dogs work, though. I love seeing them going out, jumping in and bringing the game. I just wish I weren't such a baby.:no:


The great thing about retrievers vs. other hunting dogs is that you don't even need real birds to train/have fun. Most of the time I train with bumpers. If you don't want to compete, but still want your retriever to enjoy retrieving, you can do it all with bumpers. Obviously if you want to get into competitions, you'll have to get over your aversion, but if your only goal is to have fun with it, bumpers are your friend!


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## kgiff (Jul 21, 2008)

Lilliam said:


> IowaGold and Loisiana - yes, I imagine you're right. I've never seen live field work....I probably sound childish, but I hate to see a bird get shot. That's my problem, I have to deal with that. My grandfather loved hunting, and although I loved his stories of how he trained his dogs, I always hated the fact that he actually shot living things.
> 
> That's my issue, I have a problem. I am not a vegan or anything, but I suppose I'm a hypocrite. Like I said, it's a problem of mine.
> 
> I do love watching the dogs work, though. I love seeing them going out, jumping in and bringing the game. I just wish I weren't such a baby.:no:


Honestly, for me I'm still struggling with this. I absolutely love the training for field work, but I wish it could all be done with bumpers. I'm still quite a baby about it, but I'm getting better. I probably will never be 100% comfortable with it.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

Bumpers?!!!? I'm assuming those are those plastic tube things that I see in dock jumping competition? With so much water around me that shouldn't be difficult to find!!!

How does that work, after casting your dog out? Sounds like it would be similar to urban tracking....

I would *love* to be able to do actual "retrieving" work with a retriever!!! The reason we got into sheepherding and have spent so many years covered in alfalfa and sheep poop is that we got border collies! And border collies herd...so, staying true to the original intent, we became herding hobbyists....I can only dream about how easier things would have been if I hadn't spent so much time being stepped on by 300 lb Rambouillet ewes!!! but then I wouldn't have had my border collies, so...it's OK.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Lilliam said:


> I would *love* to be able to do actual "retrieving" work with a retriever!!! The reason we got into sheepherding and have spent so many years covered in alfalfa and sheep poop is that we got border collies! And border collies herd...so, staying true to the original intent, we became herding hobbyists.


I feel the same way about the "actual" work of a dog. I did coursing with my Whippet (in addition to obedience and therapy work) and put Quiz through the JH level of hunt tests (in addition to doing obedience, agility, working trials, dock jumping) b/c it's what he was "coded" to do. Fun stuff.

It's also why I won't get a herding dog right now. As much as I love BCs and Aussies, then I'd have to take up herding and I don't have the time to do a whole 'nuther sport right now. ;-)


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

Yup! That's the thing I go crazy about. People buy working dogs, either sporting, herding, earth dogs, and they complain when the dog eats the house. Those are *thinking* breeds!!!! They are meant to have a purpose!
Oh Lordy, if you get into herding you'll see why I'm phasing it out! I'm drained...
I hope to do less insane activities, cleaner, less intense. Having to control a super intense BC and five or seven maniacal sheep is exhausting.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

By the way, before we decided on the golden we had talked about adopting a retired greyhound and do coursing. 
The golden won out!


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

What a great thread!

I'm anticipating bringing a puppy home in August. We'll also be newbies at competitive obedience. I have found this book especially helpful, you might too! It is called, "Building Blocks for Performance" by Bobbie Anderson. http://www.amazon.com/Building-Blocks-Performance-Bobbie-Anderson/dp/1577790375


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

Great!!!!! Thank you for the title....I was looking for videos today at work.


Ok, yeah, I was looking for obedience videos at work. I think I'm becoming obsessed and I don't even have a puppy yet...

Heavens.....


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