# Raw Food diet?



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Both my dogs have been on raw food for about a year now, give or take a month or so. There are several routes you can go for raw feeding. 

Several raw feeders posted in a thread I made not too long ago:

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=51124


You can go the pre-made raw route which is pretty costly, you pay for convenience, and I did this at first to get my dogs on raw while I did my research on it. Or you can do tons of research and make a raw diet of your own for your dogs, which is what I do now. 

I buy all the meat in bulk which can make the diet very cost-effective, and have a large freezer in my garage that is solely a "dog food" freezer. I'd say I spend about $2/day to feed both my dogs, which is quite a bit less expensive than the kibble I was buying prior to switching, and that was only for one dog at the time.

If you have any specific questions I'd be more than happy to help thru PM or in this thread.


----------



## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

I have been doing quite a bit of research on raw diets. It is A LOT of information! Here is a link to a thread that has a bunch of great links to read.

http://www.dogforums.com/5-dog-food-forum/15085-feeding-raw-where-start.html


----------



## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

I feed a combination of premade and bones. I think you're in winterpeg? If so I'm sure Urban Carnivore is sold there - do a search for raw dog food and see what pops up in your area. Patties are a bit more in cost but they are the easiest way to get started (I just mention Urban because it's made in Sask and likely a better price, but you can check on that there).

There's lots of reading on this of course out there on the web, best advice is to keep it simple and don't get overloaded. Feeding patties makes it easy to start because most of them are balanced already with bone, organs and veggies, so you just need to feed the right amount of them. The urban supplements, I just have in a salt/spice shaker, and sprinkle over their food, squirt some oil on top and serve (I don't measure it out each time). There should be people in your area in a co-op for cases of things, or just go to a butcher shop and ask them to order in things for you when you're ready.

Costwise it's not bad if you can do some bones and get some cases of things. 

Lana


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Bender said:


> There should be people in your area in a co-op for cases of things, or just go to a butcher shop and ask them to order in things for you when you're ready.
> 
> Costwise it's not bad if you can do some bones and get some cases of things.



I would have a harder time affording it if I couldn't buy in bulk. I did join a co-op like you mentioned and the prices are great. I've recently also found a meat locker type place near my house with very similar prices to the co-op. I buy anywhere from 40-200lbs of meat at a time and generally spend less than $100 at a time. My dogs eat 1-2 lbs of food a day.


----------



## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

Thank you for all the information!
My FIL is a Cattle farmer so we can get a whole cow for free and we would just have to pay for the butchering.

I called a store in the City(yes, winterpeg!) And she sells the Urban Carnivore and all the other supplements and things I would need.

$2 a day is a good price for 2 dogs! that is less then what I am now on dry food.

One other question. What would you feed your dog if you went on vacation? is it better to keep a dog on a raw food and dry food combo incase of situations where you have to travel? The lady at the store I called said even doign raw food 50% of the time is better then 100% processed dry food.


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

I haven't traveled with my dogs yet, but plan to drive from CA to TX in the next couple months with them. What we plan to do is take a large cooler with Nature's Variety raw patties, and a bag of The Honest Kitchen, which is dehydrated raw food that you just add warm water to.


----------



## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

thats a good idea, to just buy premade raw foods for trips and then make your own when you are home.


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

After making my own for about 10 years I recently switch over to a pre-made food, Oma's Pride, for convenience. I see you added that you have access to beef. One word of caution would be that beed bones are very strong and not readily consumed by dogs. The meaty bones I feed are turkey wings, checken leg quarters and turkey necks. I purchase the chicken and turkey parts by the case from a local meat wholesaler. 
What I currently feed is the patty mix in the morning anf then a meaty bone meal in the evening. Feeding this way costs me roughly $100/month for 2 dogs. Iif I were to just feed the pre-made petty mix it would be about $125/month for two dogs.
As for vacations I bring mine with me in a big cooler. I rotate the items I am going to feed 24 hours later to the top of the ice. (When I feed breakfast I pull the next day's breakfast to the top. When I feed dinner I pull the next day's dinner to the top.) I drain all the water daily and re-ice everyday. I have done this on trips of over 10 days without a problem. If this is not an option you could also purchase items daily at a supermarket near where you are vacationing and feed that. A little more pricey but it would only be a few days


----------



## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

AmbikaGR said:


> After making my own for about 10 years I recently switch over to a pre-made food, Oma's Pride, for convenience. I see you added that you have access to beef. One word of caution would be that beed bones are very strong and not readily consumed by dogs. The meaty bones I feed are turkey wings, checken leg quarters and turkey necks. I purchase the chicken and turkey parts by the case from a local meat wholesaler.
> What I currently feed is the patty mix in the morning anf then a meaty bone meal in the evening. Feeding this way costs me roughly $100/month for 2 dogs. Iif I were to just feed the pre-made petty mix it would be about $125/month for two dogs.
> As for vacations I bring mine with me in a big cooler. I rotate the items I am going to feed 24 hours later to the top of the ice. (When I feed breakfast I pull the next day's breakfast to the top. When I feed dinner I pull the next day's dinner to the top.) I drain all the water daily and re-ice everyday. I have done this on trips of over 10 days without a problem. If this is not an option you could also purchase items daily at a supermarket near where you are vacationing and feed that. A little more pricey but it would only be a few days


Thank you for the suggestions!

I was told that dogs have to eat ground up bone? I am not sure I have access to that option from a cow that we got.
$100 a month is great!
I am thinking this is going to save me money, which is the only thing my DH will care about *sigh*
There is also a local organic hog farmer in my area. I am going to contact him and ask him for some pricing on pig organs and other throw away meats, maybe I can save money that way too.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

missmarstar said:


> I haven't traveled with my dogs yet, but plan to drive from CA to TX in the next couple months with them. What we plan to do is take a large cooler with Nature's Variety raw patties, and a bag of The Honest Kitchen, which is dehydrated raw food that you just add warm water to.


Marlene.... where abouts are you going???? The NV patties are very available here in Dallas at Canine Commissary. THK I do order though.


----------



## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

Are there any good books to get?
I am heading to the Library tonight to see if there is anything there.


----------



## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

MyCodyBoy said:


> thats a good idea, to just buy premade raw foods for trips and then make your own when you are home.


Some of the foods come in sealed bags as well, so they're flat and don't leak - perfect for coolers. I usually take a few day's worth of frozen and stop in at stores on the way.

Lana


----------



## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

MyCodyBoy said:


> Are there any good books to get?
> I am heading to the Library tonight to see if there is anything there.


I heard the book 'Give Your Dog a Bone' by Ian Billinghurst is a good read. Unfortunately, I don't know if you'll be able to get it at the library. I've only seen it at dogwise.com and amazon.


----------



## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

nixietink said:


> I heard the book 'Give Your Dog a Bone' by Ian Billinghurst is a good read. Unfortunately, I don't know if you'll be able to get it at the library. I've only seen it at dogwise.com and amazon.


Thank you!
Our Library is pretty good at having everything. I will ask if I don't see it.


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Marlene.... where abouts are you going???? The NV patties are very available here in Dallas at Canine Commissary. THK I do order though.



We'll be going to visit my dad in Laredo and then Jeff's dad on his ranch out in the middle of nowhere (near College Station I think). We figured it'd be easier to just bring our own instead of having to try to find stuff out there. It'll definitely be an interesting trip.. two dogs in the car for a 20 hour drive. Dillon's an old pro traveler though


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

missmarstar said:


> two dogs in the car for a 20 hour drive. Dillon's an old pro traveler though


Yeah to him it will seem like a trip around the block! :doh: :bowl:


----------



## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

If I'm being honest, I'm on the fence about this whole raw meat thing. And my Vet HATES the idea...


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

NuttinButGoldens said:


> If I'm being honest, I'm on the fence about this whole raw meat thing. And my Vet HATES the idea...



I go to a middle of the road (uses a combination of Eastern and Western medicine and philosophy) vet who respects my decision to feed my dogs raw. When I explained the trials and tribulations I went through finding a food that didn't make Sam's skin crawl, she fully understood and supports that. Neither I nor my dog's have ever had any issues with raw meat or bacterial illnesses from it. All their meat is human grade and could technically be eaten by me (excluding the green tripe, cuz.. ew. lol). 

I know there are a lot of raw feeders who are quite snobby about kibble feeders, and I'm not like that at all. I'm a firm believer that you do what's best for you and your dog. For us, raw was the way to go. But it requires a ton of research and effort on my part, and I know many are not prepared or willing to do that work. I don't blame them... there are plenty of things I'd rather do than spend a couple hours in my garage bagging up portions of meat.


----------



## agoldenliferanch (Aug 1, 2008)

NuttinButGoldens said:


> If I'm being honest, I'm on the fence about this whole raw meat thing. And my Vet HATES the idea...


Nothing against your vet, as mine is also not a raw convert, but in their own defense, vets just don't get a lot of nutrition training in vet school and are way behind the curve with the latest in doggie nutrition.

As an aside, I'm feeding a combination of raw and holistic premade that's a lot of work. Why am I going through all this? Because every day I'm on this forum and I read about how we've lost another member's dog to cancer. When you research what to feed a dog who has cancer the first thing they tell you is to remove all grains from the dog's diet and feed high quality meats and vegetables. So that's what I'm feeding.

My dogs get turkey necks and my homemade mix of Oma's Pride Premix (Chicken, organs, bone and veggies) to which I add, eggs, pumpkin, green beans, blueberries, olive oil, yogurt, apples, bananas. I also rotate in sweet potatos, brown rice (small amt), spinach, kale and broccoli.

I'm not pollyanish about this being THE preventative but my research has shown that whole foods with lean proteins and vegetables rich in antioxidents benefit our dogs as much as they do us.

Good Luck in determining the best diet for your crew.


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

My boyfriend is always whining that the dogs eat better than we do. If I put as much thought into my own diet as I do my dog's, I'd be the healthiest person ever. LOL


----------



## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

For anyone that uses THK, what kind do you use and why?


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

nixietink said:


> For anyone that uses THK, what kind do you use and why?


 
I use the Embark and Force, mainly because they're grain free and the kids do well on them. I also have used Verve for Cody, as he seems to do best on some grain, and he LOVED it.


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

I've been using their new formula "keen"... even tho it has some grains (oats i believe), both the dogs have been doing fine on it, and its the cheapest formula by about $20/box. i figured the cost savings would be worth it if it didn't bother either of them and I haven't noticed any scratching out of either of them... although they only get 1/2 cup of it per day, just to give them something small to eat in the morning that I can mix their Bug Off Garlic powder with, and so they don't feel they went without breakfast and get mad at me LOL I think they say their daily requirement based on weight is like 2 1/2 cups per day, so it really is a minimal amount they eat.

I have used other formulas in the past, and the dogs have LOVED all of them. It smells so yummy (even to me!!)


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

missmarstar said:


> I've been using their new formula "keen"... even tho it has some grains (oats i believe), both the dogs have been doing fine on it, and its the cheapest formula by about $20/box. i figured the cost savings would be worth it if it didn't bother either of them and I haven't noticed any scratching out of either of them... although they only get 1/2 cup of it per day, just to give them something small to eat in the morning that I can mix their Bug Off Garlic powder with, and so they don't feel they went without breakfast and get mad at me LOL I think they say their daily requirement based on weight is like 2 1/2 cups per day, so it really is a minimal amount they eat.
> 
> I have used other formulas in the past, and the dogs have LOVED all of them. It smells so yummy (even to me!!)



LOL. My dil thought the Force smelled like Thanksgiving dinner. I told her not MY T'Giving dinner. It does smell good, but not THAT good. Have you been pleased with the Bug Off Garlic? I've used it on the girls for several years, spring thru fall, and have had great results.


----------



## Goldilocks (Jun 3, 2007)

nixietink said:


> For anyone that uses THK, what kind do you use and why?


We have used Embark, Force, Thrive and Preference +added home cooked meat. I feel that Pippa does the best on the Thrive which contains a low allergenic grain, quinuoa (sp). They are all good products but I feel Thrive with 26% protein is the best buy plus my dog does better with a bit of grain. I think Embark has a lot of fibre in it. When she ate Embark there was a lot more stool with undigested seeds, etc. in it. I am interested in trying the new "Keen" formula.

If I had to eat one of these I would choose "Force" as it smells like a really good fresh soup or stew.


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> LOL. My dil thought the Force smelled like Thanksgiving dinner. I told her not MY T'Giving dinner. It does smell good, but not THAT good. Have you been pleased with the Bug Off Garlic? I've used it on the girls for several years, spring thru fall, and have had great results.



Well its not really "flea season" over here yet, so I guess we'll find out as it gets warmer how effective it is. Dill has a flea bite allergy, and breaks out in a rash around a bite... poor guy. I figured the bug repellent quality of garlic would be great for him. Neither K9 Advantix or Frontline seemed to work too well with mine.. they are on Sentinel (HW + flea birth control). I also give them a Capstar on the rare occasion I happen to find a lone flea on either of them. I like the idea of giving them less chemicals and crap in their bodies... I figure if the BOG does the trick, then that's awesome  I'm glad you've had success with it!


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Yes, I like the idea of avoiding some chemicals. I hate the thought of putting that crap on them.... and usually do it only when we'll be going to my son's out in the country. Bathing every week really helps too.


----------



## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

My thinking on this is that I hardly ever eat processed foods so why should my pets eat that way too?

To me its about getting back to nature and the way they should be eating.

I really really hope I can find the time for this diet.
I am doing a bunch of reasurch now and I hope to get into it by the time Cody's bag of food is almost empty so I can mix it up for a while.

I truly believe that like Humans cancer is caused by nutrition and environment and genetics. 

oh 1 question. Is it true that the raw diet should not containe any grains at all? My neighbor feeds her dogs beef with rice. I read somewhere that rice is not easily digested by dogs.


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Re: Grains...

my opinion in general is that dogs dont NEED grains in their diet. Now, both mine have shown grain allergies, some dogs do just fine with grains.. Sam's allergies are way more serious than Dillon's but Dillon did have itchy skin issues before coming to me, and I haven't noticed any since he's been here and on raw food (with the exception of his flea allergy that popped up during flea season last year). Aside from the recent addition of 1/2 cup of THK (with oats) every morning, I have chosen to give mine a grain free diet as I believe that's what works best for them. I believe most raw feeders will also not give grains, instead focusing on meat, bones, organs, and in some cases (if you follow the BARF diet by Dr. Billingsworth, which I do not) veggie "slop" and supplements. A dog in the wild is a carnivore.. they will not set out to find a wheat field and chow down.  I think a meat heavy diet without grains is the most natural for dogs. Mine do not get veggie slop, as I believe its unnecessary, but they do get raw green tripe once a week (if you don't know, green tripe is the stomach of a ruminating animal like a cow. It contains some of the stomach contents which for cows would be grass. It smells like manure and you'd swear by the way my dogs go crazy for it that it contains CRACK. lol)

Anyway this is all in my opinion.. and what's worked awesomely for Sam for 14 months now, and Dillon for about 11 months.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

MMMMMM... good ole green tripe. My crew gets it several times a week and it's the one time I'm glad my sinuses are continually clogged!!! lol


----------



## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

This is why I use California Natural. It cured every itchy and ear problem my boys had in short order, and with the exception of a hot spot Dakota ALWAYS gets after bathing, he's been ear-clean and itchy free for 5 years now.

Dakota was an ear-disaster for his first 4 or 5 years. Not a single ear issue since he was put on CN 5 years ago.

That, my friends, is a true blessing for both of us 



missmarstar said:


> Re: Grains...
> 
> my opinion in general is that dogs dont NEED grains in their diet. Now, both mine have shown grain allergies, some dogs do just fine with grains.. Sam's allergies are way more serious than Dillon's but Dillon did have itchy skin issues before coming to me, and I haven't noticed any since he's been here and on raw food (with the exception of his flea allergy that popped up during flea season last year). Aside from the recent addition of 1/2 cup of THK (with oats) every morning, I have chosen to give mine a grain free diet as I believe that's what works best for them. I believe most raw feeders will also not give grains, instead focusing on meat, bones, organs, and in some cases (if you follow the BARF diet by Dr. Billingsworth, which I do not) veggie "slop" and supplements. A dog in the wild is a carnivore.. they will not set out to find a wheat field and chow down.  I think a meat heavy diet without grains is the most natural for dogs. Mine do not get veggie slop, as I believe its unnecessary, but they do get raw green tripe once a week (if you don't know, green tripe is the stomach of a ruminating animal like a cow. It contains some of the stomach contents which for cows would be grass. It smells like manure and you'd swear by the way my dogs go crazy for it that it contains CRACK. lol)
> 
> Anyway this is all in my opinion.. and what's worked awesomely for Sam for 14 months now, and Dillon for about 11 months.


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> MMMMMM... good ole green tripe. My crew gets it several times a week and it's the one time I'm glad my sinuses are continually clogged!!! lol



My boyfriend refuses to let me defrost the frozen chubs of it in the fridge because of the smell. It defrosts outside, and they eat it outside. LOL


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I don't really want to get into the raw vs kibble debate. BUT, I will say that as someone who was told by a raw feeding proponent that I am "killing my dogs with kibble", I have a problem with being told that raw feed dogs are healthier and live longer than kibble fed dogs. I have NOTHING against people feeding raw if that is what they want to do. I do give my dogs raw bones, because they love them and because I don't clean teeth  I feed kibble. My friend with PWD's has fed raw for over 15 years now. She is fanatic about it. She has had dogs with cancer. She has had dogs that have died young. The person who accused me of murdering my dogs has lost 2 to cancer within months of each other (mother and daughter). I've had two with cancer - Tiller died days shy of turning 3 - it was a rare adrenal gland tumor called pheochromocytoma. The other was 14, and never sick. When she died, the owners assumed old age but wanted to know for sure, so necropsied her and she had hemangiosarcoma. 
Lyric never ate anything but kibble and was 16. Dave never ate anything but kibble and was 14 (he lived to be older than his sire, dam, and all siblings.) Bond was 13. Michael was 13. Drummer was 14. These dogs all ate kibble - ProPlan, not one of the trendy new "holistic" diets. 
I think that it all depends on the dogs, their bloodlines, and to an extent, their environments. Of course, you can do whatever you can to make sure that the odds are stacked in your favor by providing good nutrition, but I'm not altogether sure that I believe that feeding raw or kibble is going to prevent or cause, cancers.
I have to be more than "lucky" as long as I've had dogs and fed kibble, or you'd think I'd have more cancer, shorter lifespans, and more overall health problems. 

Feed what your dog does best on.


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

PG I completely agree with you. I think we've even talked about this before on the forum. I do not consider myself a raw food snob, in that I feed it because my dogs do the best on it, but I do not think its for everyone, and certainly don't think kibble feeders are poisoning their dogs or anything of the sort.


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Well Laura we know there are idiots on both sides of the fence n this one, as well as very educated level headed ones. I have an "acquaintance" who preaches that her dogs live longer and her bitches whelp easier, and studs are more potent which is all pretty innocent really. But she goes on to telling anyone who will listen, which is usually folks who are new and know no better that feeding raw guarantees none of her pups will ever have worms, no eye, heart or orthopedic problems and NEVER vaccinate for ANYTHING as it is not needed. Absolutely INSANE because I truly believe she believes it herself. 
Over the past 11 years I have fed raw because to me it makes sense and I think (and hope) that it is what is best for my dogs because that is what my research leads me to believe. Knowing you as I do and respecting your years in dogs I know you chose your path for the very same reasons. That is all I think we can ever ask of a person, 
Do what you believe is in the best interest of your dog(s).


----------



## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

I like to think the few raw feeders I've come across on this board have felt the same as you and I Hank. On another board I am on, I've felt more of a "snobby" vibe concerning raw feeding and the "evils" of kibble, and I stay out of those conversations. In fact the only reason I continue being a member there (its not even a golden forum, its for another breed) is they have such a HUGE raw feeding section that I find it to be a good resource for me. Its something I've put a lot of research into, am more than happy to help others who have questions or interest in it, but definitely don't think raw feeding is the only way to have a healthy happy dog.


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

AmbikaGR said:


> Well Laura we know there are idiots on both sides of the fence n this one, as well as very educated level headed ones. I have an "acquaintance" who preaches that her dogs live longer and her bitches whelp easier, and studs are more potent which is all pretty innocent really. But she goes on to telling anyone who will listen, which is usually folks who are new and know no better that feeding raw guarantees none of her pups will ever have worms, no eye, heart or orthopedic problems and NEVER vaccinate for ANYTHING as it is not needed. Absolutely INSANE because I truly believe she believes it herself.
> Over the past 11 years I have fed raw because to me it makes sense and I think (and hope) that it is what is best for my dogs because that is what my research leads me to believe. Knowing you as I do and respecting your years in dogs I know you chose your path for the very same reasons. That is all I think we can ever ask of a person,
> Do what you believe is in the best interest of your dog(s).


 
Thank you. I respect those who look at both with an open mind and do not attempt to shove it down another's throat, or spout biased statistics for either philosophy. Like the newbies who are experts on absolutely everything - again, both sides. Good grief, as long as I've been doing this I learn something new every day. If I don't, it means that I have assumed ground temperature. I want what is best for my dogs, as well as the dogs of others. And when I see people like those coming here to this forum, looking for answers and ideas who are truly wanting to be educated and to do the best they can, I cringe at the thought of them not getting sound information from which to come to their own best conclusion. For the most part, this forum is pretty good at putting out valuable information (save for the occasional "dig and ditch" poster who seems to come here strictly to whip up a good, frothy frenzy). There is a very diverse group here, and I've learned a lot.


----------



## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

i have to agree with you 100%
Not every dog is the same so they wont all do well on the same diet.

I have had cats my entire life and all of them had been on dry kibble. My cats live a very long time! My oldest was 17 who passed away in 2000, and I have a cat now who is reaching 18 years of age. She is on soft foods now, but she is 18 years old!

I have decided to stick with kibble and just do a tripe 1x a week for now.


----------



## agoldenliferanch (Aug 1, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> I don't really want to get into the raw vs kibble debate. BUT, I will say that as someone who was told by a raw feeding proponent that I am "killing my dogs with kibble", I have a problem with being told that raw feed dogs are healthier and live longer than kibble fed dogs. I have NOTHING against people feeding raw if that is what they want to do. I do give my dogs raw bones, because they love them and because I don't clean teeth  I feed kibble. My friend with PWD's has fed raw for over 15 years now. She is fanatic about it. She has had dogs with cancer. She has had dogs that have died young. The person who accused me of murdering my dogs has lost 2 to cancer within months of each other (mother and daughter). I've had two with cancer - Tiller died days shy of turning 3 - it was a rare adrenal gland tumor called pheochromocytoma. The other was 14, and never sick. When she died, the owners assumed old age but wanted to know for sure, so necropsied her and she had hemangiosarcoma.
> Lyric never ate anything but kibble and was 16. Dave never ate anything but kibble and was 14 (he lived to be older than his sire, dam, and all siblings.) Bond was 13. Michael was 13. Drummer was 14. These dogs all ate kibble - ProPlan, not one of the trendy new "holistic" diets.
> I think that it all depends on the dogs, their bloodlines, and to an extent, their environments. Of course, you can do whatever you can to make sure that the odds are stacked in your favor by providing good nutrition, but I'm not altogether sure that I believe that feeding raw or kibble is going to prevent or cause, cancers.
> I have to be more than "lucky" as long as I've had dogs and fed kibble, or you'd think I'd have more cancer, shorter lifespans, and more overall health problems.
> ...


To ignore the trends in pet food for 20 years is to ignore blindly all the advances that have been made since the advent of kibble over 50 years ago. Just like the TV dinner, kibble was created for convenience, not for nutrition. 

I, for one, applaud those "trendy" holistic diets and the people who make them for forcing the big dogs in the industry to clean up their act and use better ingredients in many of their diets. As recently as 10 years ago, 4D (dying, dead, diseased, disabled) animals were commonly used in the manufacture of dog food. 

The Pet Food Recall of two ago opened many eyes as to what's in your dog's food and educated many consumers to learn to read labels and better understand what goes into their pet's food. Better choices are being made every day and most of those choices are going to "trendy" holistic diets. Diets that use human grade meats and poultry, whole grains, fresh fruits and vegetables and important vitamins and minerals. 

More and more people are learning that by-products, digests, tallow, glutens, and split proteins are cheap ways to add protein to a kibble that aren't in the dog's long term best interest.

Yes, the definitive healthy diet for our animal companions has yet to be written and the debate between raw, holistic, homemade and "regular" kibbles being sufficient continues on.

However, two points in the debate that resonant with me are visits to canine cancer sites who are doing the research and treating dogs with cancer say the first thing that goes when your dog is diagnosed is grains. They prescribe whole meats and fresh fruits and vegetables. So if that's the cancer diet, then why don't we feed that before the cancer is diagnosed? Can't hurt...just might help.

Secondly, there can be no doubt that the kibble making process degrades the vitamins and minerals that are naturally in the food to begin with so you have to add them back in. If someone chooses to make their own diet keeping more of the nutrient density in the food either by feeding raw or slightly cooking the meat, there is going to be more of the natural proteins, vitamins and minerals intact, that also has to be an asset to the animal.

So I'm sorry that I cannot accept the premise that "feed what your dog does best on" is good enough. We have an obligation to them to feed them the absolute best that WE can and it's up to us to figure out what that is. They can't speak to us, when need to speak for them.

Dogs can thrive on junk dog food for years without outward signs of trouble. Maybe they are one of the few who won't get gunky ears, hot spots, a bad case of the itchies and be overweight or get diabetes. Yes, those are the lucky ones who tell you, "My dog ate ________ for 15 years and was never at the vet and was healthy as an ox." 

But with the ever advancing cases of cancer in our precious goldens, I choose to be proactive, continue the research, always look for the next breakthrough or study in nutrition and to continue the journey in finding the most healthy diet for my animals. 

And I for one, applaud all those on this forum who are asking the questions, looking for the best diet possible for their dogs and are using some of the most innovative products available today. And if we weren't on the right track, those big dog companies wouldn't be coming out daily with their own trendy "holistic" formula.

Raw or cooked, homemade or holistic kibble, thank God we have better choices today than we did 20 years ago and hopefully we'll have even better choices tomorrow.


----------

