# Our quiet life is shattered - Fence fighting- Help needed



## Thalie (Jan 20, 2008)

I apologize for the length but want to give enough details from the start so that y'all can understand the situation.

Our two oldest girls (Spip, 11 & Flem, 9) have lived all their lives without another dog directly on the other side of our fence. Lo & behold, a new roommate move in next door with a young dog three days ago. We discovered it just going outside in the afternoon and the girls - who did great with all the people coming and going next door even when they had loud parties - went completely bonkers, rushing the fence, running the fence, acting very aggressively toward the new dog who basically just wanted to say Hi. We could not regain control so had to leash them up. Spip quieted down somewhat when the leash was put on but Flem had to be literally dragged back in the house. Puppy Col joined the barking - with an especially loud pitched alert barking - but she followed everyone in. We tried to bring them back out one by one a couple of times to see if it would make a difference but it did not.

Flem's body language during all that is what concerns me most - the stiffness, the hard stare, the "deafness". This is more than reactivity, this is territorial aggression at its finest, I think, perhaps combined with aggression as protection for our new puppy (Col, 5 months). From what we gathered from the owner, the dog will be left outside (yes, in our awful heat but he has water and shade so there is nothing we can do about that) more and more while he is not home and indeed he has been outside unattended several times in the past two days. 

Understand that at this point the new dog is not the instigator, our girls (Col by her alert excited yapping and Flem who goes out full fledge to protect her from something that is not a threat) are the problem. So, I put an emergency plan into action - outside on leash only when the dog is out, not approching the fence by less than 20 feet, reward for any calm behavior (in Flem's case, just turning her head toward me), etc. I have also gone back with Spip & Flem to very basic training - watch me and recall. There have been a couple of slip-ups (and I know that the more they can practice the behavior, the harder it will be to modify) but we are definitely working on this. I do not want either their young dog or puppy Col to develop fence fighting behavior. It is both unacceptable and dangerous. Moreover, the girls and us are prisoners in our own house and yard and it makes everybody's life miserable. 

All that said, here is our plan of action and that's where I need critiques or ideas. 

Today we are going to put a fence about 20 feet inside our fence on that side to give a neutral zone and avoid the right at the fence business. We are also going to add bamboo panels on our side of the fence to block the girls' vision of the new dog, hoping to cut on the reactivity due to movement;
We will continue the on-leash training when the other dog is present with high level reinforcement for not reacting;
We will do corrections through something like PetCorrector or Sentry Stop It;
The hope is that by re-directing, upping the obedience training, counter-conditioning, desensitizing, etc. we will be able to little by little bring the inside fence closer to the real one and, in whatever time it will take, be able to get rid of it and go back to enjoy our yard in peace. 

How does this sound ? Am I forgetting something essential (there is no behaviorist to be had around but I will talk to Col's trainer when we go to classes) ? Anything else you would do ? This is absolutely stressful and I need to know if I am going in the right direction.


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

That all sounds good. I would also try giving treats for nice quiet sits to dogs on both side of the fence to get them a bit more comfortable with being "together". Time will help too, it's probably rocking their world! Meeting outside the fence is important too, whenever and however that might work out. I'd hold off on corrections yet, you don't want them to associate those corrections with the other dogs- hive them a positive association. Do you use clicker training? That is a very powerful way yo reward the correct behavior, but likely won't be effective until they settle down from zoning out. Good luck, it will work out, with patience and love.


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## Thalie (Jan 20, 2008)

Yes, my primary idea is to use positive reinforcement. New dog is out, you are out, you are not going bonkers, treats galore come your way. I have cooked a whole bunch of chicken which is very high value for them and will only be given for this purpose. I usually just use a marker word but I could whip my clicker out just for this kind of training, that's a good idea.

The "correction" is more, in my mind, an interrupter and a way to attract their attention if they become "deaf" (is is just a hiss of air) so that I can then reward for any alternate behavior. Perhaps it will not be needed after we are done with the yard re-arrangement.

At this point, with the space and the privacy fencing added, the idea is more for them to learn to ignore the dog than to be friends with him. Once things have calmed down we might be able to have them meet on neutral ground by taking a walk but I do not see this happening in the near future. 

The sad part is that we have spent the last two months developing routines for the two grown up dogs and the puppy to live in harmony both inside & out (and it worked beautifully) and then this happened. They are on edge every time they step in the yard, their barking has increased ten fold, their playtime outside in the evenings (the only time they really can romp because of the heat) is non-existent. We can just take our walks and shuffle them as quick as we can outside for potty breaks.

We will find a way to restore the peace; it will take the time it will take but we will work through this with them, for everybody's sake.


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## Jessie'sGirl (Aug 30, 2010)

It does sound like you're working in the right direction. What a shame, though, that this has happened to you and the dogs.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

See if you can find LAT (Look At That) training either in books, video or with a local trainer. The gist is you reward the dogs for looking at the 'other dog' before they get riled up...


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Bear and Guinness never had dog neighbors for the first 6 years. When I moved to where I am now we have dogs on 3 sides. They went crazy. One of the neighbor dogs is outside all day long and in at night. The other dogs are in and out. Honestly after a few weeks they all settled down. The dogs that were outside all the time quickly lost interst in my guys so they were never at the fence (they never barked or growled at my guys but came to check them out). The dogs that were in and out took a little longer since they weren't always out when mine were out so they didn't get as much exposure.

Honestly I hardly ever get any fence fighting anymore. A new dog recently moved in next door and mine seem to have adapted to her faster.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

We had something similar happen a couple of months ago. A new dog--probably a husky/shepherd mix came to live in the yard behind us. Then dog joined a young female lab. Our back fence is wrought iron, but there is a large slope that goes down to their main yard and house. Their dogs spend 100% of their time in the yard. Max only goes out occasionally. The lab and Max got along well before the new dog arrived.

The new dog (a neutered male named Biggie) showed up at about 1 am one night, and Max went nuts. He sleeps in our room, at the back of our house. At that point, we did not know what he was so upset about. He settled down after about an hour. The next day we went into the backyard and met the new dog. At that point, Max could care less. He basically ignored both of the other dogs. However, both Biggie and the Lab barked and ran along the fence whenever we were in the yard--especially when either me or my wife were back there. Very annoying. So noisy, my wife and I could not even carry on a conversation. This behavior went on for several weeks.

The good news is that after a couple of months, things have settled down considerably. The two dogs still run up the hill whenever we go into the backyard, however, there is very little commotion or barking. My point is after an adjustment period, things are okay now. Maybe the same will happen with your situation. The dogs just need to get used to each other.


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## Thalie (Jan 20, 2008)

LibertyME said:


> See if you can find LAT (Look At That) training either in books, video or with a local trainer. The gist is you reward the dogs for looking at the 'other dog' before they get riled up...


Yes, I found this in my mad scramble to decide what to do 



 and it is something I will look into more. However, reading here and there (in an emergency), I decided first to try to give myself and them a better chance to stay under treshold by increasing the distance and decreasing the vision. I know we are in for weeks of training and LAT is something I will investigate more. In the meantime, if we could reach the point where they can go pee (with me present) and stay quiet off-leash, I would consider it a first victorious step.



Jennifer1 said:


> Bear and Guinness never had dog neighbors for the first 6 years. When I moved to where I am now we have dogs on 3 sides. They went crazy. One of the neighbor dogs is outside all day long and in at night. The other dogs are in and out. Honestly after a few weeks they all settled down. The dogs that were outside all the time quickly lost interst in my guys so they were never at the fence (they never barked or growled at my guys but came to check them out). The dogs that were in and out took a little longer since they weren't always out when mine were out so they didn't get as much exposure.
> 
> Honestly I hardly ever get any fence fighting anymore. A new dog recently moved in next door and mine seem to have adapted to her faster.


I hope mine will settle in a few weeks also. Right now, I am just trying to minimize the stress, the barking, the frenzy. Perhaps if he were outside all the time it would go faster but like you say, with the in and out, it adds a measure of inpredictability that does not help.


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## Jaykay (Jul 20, 2013)

I think the 'fence inside a fence' and breaking up their line of sight are both very good ideas. 
As is reinforcing good behaviour. 

If you wanted to 'interrupt' the territorial stuff, one of those handheld ultrasonic things might get their attention and distract them. They may even dislike the noise enough to stop it, some dogs do. 

I'm sure with all the measures in place, and some familiarity, it'll calm down.


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## KathyL (Jul 6, 2011)

I was also going to suggest something to keep them away from the fenceline or block the view. I hope you have a nice big yard because 20 feet inside from the fenceline is really a lot of yard to give up and then you'll have to get inside that area to mow the grass or whatever. I hope it works out for you. Personally I don't understand why anyone gets a dog and then leaves it outside, but that's just me.


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

What you've outlined sounds like a very good plan. Something that worked for me with Tess was a technique I got from a Victoria Stillwell show a long time ago. The dog/s are allowed to bark briefly at whatever it is, told "Thank you" or some such to acknowledge their bark, then told to stop. If they don't stop, the human gets up, goes to the dogs and gets between them and what they're barking at and herds them into the house. Once they're inside, they're told "good dog" and given treats and praise. It worked very well with my Tess. She got the message very quickly.


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