# Should we go grain free?



## kaylamontgomery (Oct 21, 2017)

Hi, all!

Question on a potential food to switch to for a four month pup. When we first brought Riley home, we slowly introduced her to Fromm dog large breed puppy. Her stool never firmed up on Fromm, so we decided to switch her. She wound up on Purina EN veterinary diet to sooth her system after coccidia and giardia before we could switch her, and from the Prina EN, we very slowly transitioned her to Holistic Select large breed puppy. Both on the Fromm and the Holistic, she's had terrible gas. She also poops on average six times a day, even though she's only eating two cups of food with very little outside treats or food. Both the Fromm and Holistic use lamb as their primary protein, so we're thinking about switching her to something chicken based, but I'm wondering if we should try grain-free?

I've wanted to lean away from grain free unless it was medically necessary, but I'm starting to wonder if her excessive pooping could stem from grain intolerance? She also regularly has a bit of eye discharge even after being treated by the vet twice with medicated drops, and seems to have a snotty nose on a regular basis. Would these be signs of grain intolerance?

Our vet refuses to recommend anything beyond Purina Pro Plan, which we found LARVA in when we were feeding her their veterinary diet, so Purina is off the table for us, and the vet isn't really a resource at this point.


----------



## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

She's only 4 months now? What was she on at the breeders and why did you switch to Fromm? I would try a bland diet for about a week and then stick with a food for at least 2 months. If she continues to have loose stools, check her for the coccidia, giardia and other outside sources.


----------



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I wouldn't touch grain free until they complete the studies on grain free foods causing dilated cardio myopathy.


----------



## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

I would not go grain-free. I would keep her on the Purina EN for a good month (my girl was on it for several months after giardia and coccidia) - it works wonders. When I was transitioning her off the EN, very slowly over another 4 weeks, I looked for a food that was similar to it - same protein, same grains, etc. I moved her successfully to Pro Plan Puppy, and then when she was older, on to Pro Plan Chicken and Rice (not the shredded one). I'd recommend it.


----------



## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

No, don't feed a grain free diet to a puppy.

Stay away from the designer diets when selecting food for a rapidly growing puppy. Pro Plan or Eukanuba are good options.


----------



## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

My boy had coccidia when he was about 12 weeks old and we had him on Taste of the Wild Puppy. Taste of the Wild is grain free, but it's what he was on at the breeder's, so we kept him on it and he has thrived. His stools looked like perfect little logs after the coccidia was gone. It took him a few weeks to gain weight after the coccidia, but he has been "healthy as a horse" since then. I alternated between the salmon flavor and the beef/bison flavor until we transitioned to adult food. He ate the puppy food for a little over a year. Side note: the coccidia medication gave him terrible gas for awhile. I do think it would be worth checking for those bugs again, especially if you are out in public a lot with your pup. 

There was a panic about Taste of the Wild going around a few months ago, but it was an old recall (from 5 years ago) that got circulated around again. They have since been bought by another company and all the dogs I know that eat Taste of the Wild are happy and healthy.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I think the grain free craze is directed to our own human mentality around feeding grains to carnivores being sub-ideal. But personally, I think of dogs are selective omnivores, and indeed, years ago most dog food was primarily grain. James Spratt (can't think of his name without thinking 'ate no fat') developed a dog food biscuit back in late 1800's that came about after he watched dogs eating biscuits in the meat markets (I think- memory here). Then after WWI, in an effort to dispose of horse carcasses, horsemeat was added in to cereals by Ken L Ration... then Gaines and Purina came in... but in recent times, we treat our dogs more like children and part of the grain free thing is to appeal to that state of mind.


----------



## kaylamontgomery (Oct 21, 2017)

Thanks for all the input! I've always wanted to stay away from grain free unless absolutely necessary for a true allergy, and that's what we were wondering if she has with the runny eyes and nose. Also, I should add, she seems to have lost a lot of her puppy fur (her sides are incredibly thin, but she was never a fluff ball puppy) and no longer hair has grown in. We've got a vet appointment Monday for her final shots, so we'll ask then if he thinks she could have any food triggers contributing to her snotty-ness. We're staying away from Purina since her EN had meal moths in it, and I stuck my hand in the food one night to come up with a scoop full of larva... That's the only food our vet will even recommend, so it's frustrating that they won't discuss anything else!


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

If you get the Purina from a high-volume place (Chewy for instance) you would not have issues w moths... sometimes if you buy a specialty food such as EN it will have sat on the shelf for months and months. And any brand that sits that long can get moths.


----------



## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

kaylamontgomery said:


> That's the only food our vet will even recommend, so it's frustrating that they won't discuss anything else!


It kinda sounds like you might need a more open minded vet. I have heard (but I'm not sure it's true) that some vets get paid to endorse certain brands of food, sorta like professional athletes and shoes. As for the puppy hair falling out, that is totally normal. My Rocket looked like a skinny lab puppy (people kept asking if he was a lab) for a few months after his puppy fur was gone. It took probably 2 or 3 months for his feathering to start growing. Salmon puppy food is good for their coats though if you are concerned.


----------



## Mac'sdad (Dec 5, 2009)

As far as the grain issue is concerned ... dogs "are" omnivores when "need" be ... put grain on the floor and then put meat right next to it .. I bet the dogs don't go for the grains ... Kibble is man's idea of what dogs need ... dogs are not cows and they do not grind their food like horses or cows ... they have teeth the rip and tear foods and swallow it in chunks ... I'm not saying to feed grain free . I just saying it won't hurt them not to have grain as much as the other junk they put in their foods ...just like our foods full of antibiotics preservatives and whatever else they throw in there ...


----------



## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Technically speaking domesticated dogs are Omnivores. They can eat a variety of things, digest them and derive nutrients from them. Like us, what they "prefer" to eat may not always be the best choice for them. Put a pan of cornbread and a medium rare T-bone in front of me, and the steak is going to win every time, however it doesn't mean it's the best nutritional choice for me.

When you're looking for appropriate foods for your puppy, look at products produced by companies that undertake long term (life long) feeding trials with their products. To date I don't know of ANY grain free product that has undergone such evaluation, and it's how problems like taurine deficiency creep into the products. If you never test, you're never going to learn there is a problem.


----------



## kaylamontgomery (Oct 21, 2017)

Just wanted to update and say thanks for all the input! At her final shots today, vet said he did not think she had any sort of food allergies, but he would take her off Holistic as it has upset her digestive system balance a bit. He recommended Purina again, but we compromised and went Eukanuba since it was one of the other brands he will recommend. 

Riley is our first puppy raising as adults, so we have found ourselves overanalysing anything, but always with the best intentions. Maybe we didnt have the best intentions putting antlers on her tonight, but she was so darn cute.


----------



## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Riley is adorable! Just make sure she gets some good treats for Christmas and I'm sure she'll forgive the antler incident.


----------



## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Riley's darling, what a great picture.

Love her stocking.....


----------



## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

That is such a great photo. She is really cute. Where is she from?


----------



## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

kaylamontgomery said:


> Just wanted to update and say thanks for all the input! At her final shots today, vet said he did not think she had any sort of food allergies, but he would take her off Holistic as it has upset her digestive system balance a bit. He recommended Purina again, but we compromised and went Eukanuba since it was one of the other brands he will recommend.
> 
> Riley is our first puppy raising as adults, so we have found ourselves overanalysing anything, but always with the best intentions. Maybe we didnt have the best intentions putting antlers on her tonight, but she was so darn cute.



I love that look on her face!


----------



## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Unless you see signs of allergies there is no reason to go grain free. We all need balance in our diets, people and pets. Honestly my girl had more problem with chicken than grains


----------



## kaylamontgomery (Oct 21, 2017)

Sweet Girl said:


> That is such a great photo. She is really cute. Where is she from?


She’s from a breeder in Enterprise, Mississippi. We will never buy from her again. She has upwards of 15 litters per year, and I know one dog just had at least her sixth litter of puppies at age 7, and she appears to breed back to back to back. We didn’t know all of this at the time, unfortunately. Riley has such a great temperament, I hate we can’t get a dog from her breeder again!


----------



## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Our Rocky is 5 months now, and has been eating grain free from the beginning. I would have to say, he is thriving on it. Our 7 year old has been fed Acana Wild Prairie, and now Meadowland, for at least 5 years. They are both "All Life Stages" foods, so we feed Rocky the same food. We recently switched both dogs to Whole Earth Farms Chicken and Turkey Grain Free, and both dogs are doing very well. Rocky is around 45 pounds, his coat is coming in beautifully and he is very smart, with plenty of energy.


----------



## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

If you want some grain-free options that don't include peas or legumes both Farmina and SportDogFood are good options.


----------



## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

kaylamontgomery said:


> She’s from a breeder in Enterprise, Mississippi. We will never buy from her again. She has upwards of 15 litters per year, and I know one dog just had at least her sixth litter of puppies at age 7, and she appears to breed back to back to back. We didn’t know all of this at the time, unfortunately. Riley has such a great temperament, I hate we can’t get a dog from her breeder again!


Well, chalk it up to a learning experience, and love your sweet pup. How can you not? :smile2:

PS Eukanuba is a good compromise - it is a very good food, too.


----------



## Borisdog (Jan 18, 2018)

PetShop.co.uk is doing a grain-free dog food awareness campaign in partnership with Autarky. I look forward to seeing what hotel4dogs, jwemt81 and Sweet Girl have to say about it...


----------



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I eagerly await the results of the scientific research being done by Dr. Joshua Stern, board certified cardiologist, on the relationship between grain free food and dilated cardiomyopathy. So far the results are pretty conclusive for a causal relationship.
That's science. Anything else is piffle.

Edit to add...Please ask them directly their level of familiarity with the ongoing study, and let us know their response. Thanks!



Borisdog said:


> PetShop.co.uk is doing a grain-free dog food awareness campaign in partnership with Autarky. I look forward to seeing what hotel4dogs, jwemt81 and Sweet Girl have to say about it...


----------



## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Borisdog said:


> PetShop.co.uk is doing a grain-free dog food awareness campaign in partnership with Autarky. I look forward to seeing what hotel4dogs, jwemt81 and Sweet Girl have to say about it...


I don't actually know what this means. An online pet shop is doing a marketing campaign around grain-free food with what? Autarky? The quality of being self-sufficient? I'm so confused.


----------



## Borisdog (Jan 18, 2018)

Lol Autarky is a brand of dog food. PetShop.co.uk is working with them to educate its consumers on the nutritional benefits of grain-free dog food, under the slogan "New Year - New Dog"...


----------



## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Borisdog said:


> Lol Autarky is a brand of dog food. PetShop.co.uk is working with them to educate its consumers on the nutritional benefits of grain-free dog food, under the slogan "New Year - New Dog"...


Oh!! That's kind of hilarious. 

Well, I see it as nothing but a marketing campaign. Autarky is paying PetShop.co.uk for extra exposure in the guise of education. Unless they have scientific studies to back it up, that's all it is.


----------

