# Hunt and Field Training Plans for the Week of August 5-11



## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Has he done the swing with the gun drill with him, so that he connects that there will be a mark coming out on the line the gun is pointed on? A lot of HRC dogs also learn to key in on the sound of the winger release.....


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

No, Shelly, we haven't really done the swing with the gun drill and I think that may be what Dan was talking about when he said we need to do the "bucket drill" with Tito right away. I'll ask him if that's what he meant.
I really think that's what it is; he's not sure there's another mark out there because it went down silently and the winger is hidden. I know more experience will fix it, but it was an AHA moment for me to figure out what I think the issue is and now we can address it.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

sterregold said:


> Has he done the swing with the gun drill with him, so that he connects that there will be a mark coming out on the line the gun is pointed on? A lot of HRC dogs also learn to key in on the sound of the winger release.....





hotel4dogs said:


> The days until National are ticking away....time to get some serious training in!
> 
> 
> I *think* I figured out what Tito's issue with doubles is when he's running at Dan's. He didn't have any trouble at the SH tests. So I started to think about what is different, and I think it's the HRC set-up versus the AKC set-up. I think Tito isn't sure if it's a mark or a blind he's being sent on. When I watched him, he acted more like he would on a blind.
> ...


I spent all this spring getting Winter to swing with me. I though she would never get it, then one day the light clicked on. What seemed to help was running the go bird as a single, and then coming back and running the double. I don't know if Tito is doing this, but Winter would laser lock on the first mark out. I don't think she would have noticed a bomb going off. Running the single first seemed to open up her field of view.
Once we got her going, I also spent time on bucket to get her swinging off the gun.
Pushing her to the mark came about a week before I could pull her.

This past worry has caused me to have very bad habit of rushing the swing off the first mark. Just this week again, I was chastised for not letting her mark for a 3 count.

One of my favorite moments of running doubles is when she is coming back from the first mark and she does a little peak to the next mark. I know if I see that we're golden. 

Barb, I'll be looking forward to your "Tito is head swinging on singles" post in a couple of weeks.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Holly, he already head swings on just about everything! It's why we don't run multiples with him!!!!!
We have run it as a taught double, but it doesn't really seem to matter. And it only seems to happen on Dan's set-ups, which are truly different from AKC or what I've practiced with him in the past because the go-bird is very long, and the memory bird is silent with a hidden winger. 
The problem started back in the spring when I worked really hard on his blinds. He is a blind runnin' FOOL now....at the cost of the memory bird.
Anyway, it's not that big of a deal, he DID go out and get the bird, but I could see his confusion and/or lack of confidence and Dan and I need to fix it before it reverts back to the huge problem it was previously!
edit to add....What happened was Tito headed out for the memory bird, and we could tell he was uncertain. He turned to look back at us, and I could tell he was trying to figure out what to do. Dan just took a few quick steps forward and told Tito, "go get your bird!" and Tito's little brain said, "gotcha!" and he went and got it. But I know he was confused at first.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> Holly, he already head swings on just about everything! It's why we don't run multiples with him!!!!!
> We have run it as a taught double, but it doesn't really seem to matter. And it only seems to happen on Dan's set-ups, which are truly different from AKC or what I've practiced with him in the past because the go-bird is very long, and the memory bird is silent with a hidden winger.
> The problem started back in the spring when I worked really hard on his blinds. He is a blind runnin' FOOL now....at the cost of the memory bird.
> Anyway, it's not that big of a deal, he DID go out and get the bird, but I could see his confusion and/or lack of confidence and Dan and I need to fix it before it reverts back to the huge problem it was previously!


Yes, AKC is bit noisier. It was too exciting for us last time. Between the live flier and the live round, she couldn't keep her butt on the ground for the double and we had a controlled break. Lots of keeping the furry butt firmly planted work being done here.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

The guns in the field are VERY exciting! And the wingers Dan uses aren't even manned, so they are totally hidden and there's no one standing out there.
Just a hole in the training that we need to address I think, better cues to him that it's a mark so that when he comes back from the long go-bird he remembers there's another mark out there, not a blind.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> edit to add....What happened was Tito headed out for the memory bird, and we could tell he was uncertain. He turned to look back at us, and I could tell he was trying to figure out what to do. Dan just took a few quick steps forward and told Tito, "go get your bird!" and Tito's little brain said, "gotcha!" and he went and got it. But I know he was confused at first.


Just wondering, do you cue him verbally on either marks or blinds?
I always say "dead bird" for a blind cue. It has given me that look out, and settling at the line.
I sometimes ask her where her mark is if I don't get that sneak peak on the way in from mark one and she seems unsure. 
Yes, so much to learn.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

yes, we say "dead bird" for a blind, and "where's your mark" for a mark.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> yes, we say "dead bird" for a blind, and *"where's your mark"* for a mark.


Just curious, why not just "mark"?

EvanG


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> No, Shelly, we haven't really done the swing with the gun drill and I think that may be what Dan was talking about when he said we need to do the "bucket drill" with Tito right away. I'll ask him if that's what he meant.
> I really think that's what it is; he's not sure there's another mark out there because it went down silently and the winger is hidden. I know more experience will fix it, but it was an AHA moment for me to figure out what I think the issue is and now we can address it.


Yes, that is the bucket drill.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

sterregold said:


> Yes, that is the bucket drill.


Here's a peek at mine. It's just a snippet, of course.





 
EvanG


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

hmmm, I don't really know?
I say "mark" for him to watch the bird go down, and then "where's your mark" right before I send him to pick it up. 
No idea why, LOL



EvanG said:


> Just curious, why not just "mark"?
> 
> EvanG


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Just curious, what does everyone think about mixing venues like this with a dog that is still pretty green? We've only ever trained/run AKC, now we are going to be running 4 HRC tests in August, followed immediately by the WC/WCX and a SH test at National.
Is that bad to mess with the dog's mind that way?


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Tito won't care which organization is sponsoring the tests! None of these involve distances or contrary skills that would mess him up. He still has to look out in the field and mark birds! 

Mix it up in training. That only makes a stronger complementary skill set for the dog. Doing the HRC style marking helps the dog to recognize that the gun can be giving them the line in AKC HT as well--at Master you have to carry the gun, so why not make it practical rather than cosmetic. As well, remember that AKC judges have a lot of leeway in their setups. There is nothing in the regs that *requires* them to use a call or shot in the field. I have run tests where everything was shot by a bubba gunner on the line, or a combination like the test where the first mark came out silently and was shot from the gun station, the next had call and shot from the station, and the last bird came out silently and was shot from the line! The drill will also be helpful for your WCX--although the gunners are in white, there is no call, just shoot and throw, so if you can get him to move with you (which is essentially what the dog also has to do when marking off the gun) you have a better shot of getting him a good look at all of the marks. If you look closely at Evan's clip, the movement of the gun is not the only cue he gives his dog to move--he also steps with his left foot to push the dog to look left. You can use that same cue in WCX, AKC HT etc.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks Shelly, I wasn't really aware that we might run into stuff like that in Master (never really thought about it). Evan, thanks for the video. We've done a very small amount of that, obviously not enough, and not for a very,very long time.
I know what we will be working on over the next couple of weeks!


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

hotel4dogs

Try video taping yourself and the setup, then analyze. Also, the Tritronics book has a drill to teach the dog to look at where the gun is pointing. It might be worth a look.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Our WC/WCX test is in three weeks so many of us have been training for this.

I am surprised at how steady Buffy has become at the water. I would like to think that it is a result of my incredible training skills but it just may be that she has matured a bit.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> Thanks Shelly, I wasn't really aware that we might run into stuff like that in Master (never really thought about it). Evan, thanks for the video. We've done a very small amount of that, obviously not enough, and not for a very,very long time.
> I know what we will be working on over the next couple of weeks!


People complain when it happens, usually because they have not trained for it and just assumed there would be call-shot from the field! We are pretty used to it in CKC Master as our judges seem to like to mix things up and it can happen at any of the HT levels. I gunned for a SH where I "shot"everything from the line. 

The MH I ran at MiFly last year for Breeze's 4th MH leg had a Bubba gunner. He sat off to the left of the line and shot the first bird and the go bird. The middle bird was an out of order flyer that the flyer station obviously shot!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Shelly, you make me feel much better. Some people (who are big AKC only types ) are trying to convince me that I'm making a mistake switching venues back and forth, whereas you make me feel as though I will be MORE prepared than most when we run Master!


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> Shelly, you make me feel much better. Some people (who are big AKC only types ) are trying to convince me that I'm making a mistake switching venues back and forth, whereas you make me feel as though I will be MORE prepared than most when we run Master!


I would trust my pro. What does he say?


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> Shelly, you make me feel much better. Some people (who are big AKC only types ) are trying to convince me that I'm making a mistake switching venues back and forth, whereas you make me feel as though I will be MORE prepared than most when we run Master!



They are missing out on another fun opportunity to let their dog get birds. The nuances are more in what the handler has to do when running the dog, and to know about the rule differences.

Breeze ran Seasoned and SH at the same time and she did just fine! My friend's GMH golden is also HRCH and working on 500 points. He just goes back and forth between them without blinking now.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

gdgli said:


> I would trust my pro. What does he say?


Her pro Dan is the one who wants to do HRC with him! So it doesn't seem he thinks it is a conflict!


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Well Scout is back to her normal self (fecal was negative for giardia, possible hookworm but I actually decided to do heartworm this year just during the warm months and they cover that...so who knows what was going on).

Trained today with bird it was lovely other than the mosquitoes. Very distracting to swat them off of you and wait to be signaled, and throw birds. Deet doesn't do me much good I can spray the bugger directly and they still keep coming!

At any rate did a wider double first, then single down the middle with a blind off to the side alongside a fence. She did decently on the double but I mistakenly sent her looking to far off to the right on the memory bird. She still found it but it wasn't our best. Single she nailed. Blind was tricky but I think a good teaching moment. She really struggles with fences and thick cover. They suck her in big time and I had to pull her out of that. Because it wasn't the best I ran her on it again and I was able to pull her off the fence and let her roll...unfortunately she saw the bucket where the gunner had been standing and she sucked off the blind toward that. Blind was right bucket was left. I cast right, dog goes left. Toot. I cast right, dog goes left. Toot. No. Nick. I cast right, dog goes right picks up bumper. Good girl!

Our second set-up I ran all singles since I am wary of head swinging. Did a flower pot, then ran a blind. I can't say she did fantastically on this blind, but I handled her really well and cleanly so that felt good. Then we ran a single mark. All good.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

My pro runs only HRC, so he doesn't have any problem with going back and forth! He thinks I need to run much more HRC and forget the AKC stuff, LOL. Seriously, he would run both if he had time, but since he also manages a hunt club full time he can only do one and he likes HRC.
I am having him run Tito in HRC, rather than me, for 2 reasons. One is the gun, although I'm sure I could learn it if I *had to*. I have a hard enough time remembering to bring my dog to the line, let alone "open, safe" and so on. None of the guns are left-handed, which means the silly safety goes the wrong way for me besides and I have a real hard time figuring it out without pointing the gun at someone, such as myself. But the biggest thing is that I'm so new to this, I don't want to learn 2 sets of rules and then get to Master and mess up by following HRC rules instead.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

There are several people here that do HRC and AKC. I haven't been to an HRC event yet.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

We're running both AKC and HRC here. This month we will run an AKC Senior test and then the next week-end an HRC Seasoned test. My Pro runs both, so we train both. 
I do have to remember in AKC, I can't talk to my dog from the time I call for the birds until the judges release on "dog". I think of it as, handling gun and shooting you can talk and fake gun, stay quiet.
Winter seems to swich between the two without a problem. She did break in the last AKC test on the live flier, but the week before we were running an HRC double at practice when I heard from behind me "you better get her butt on the ground or she will be breaking at a test". Yeesh, you would think the Pro could predict the future. 
Even with her break, I do think that Winter, in general, is steadier at the line because of running HRC. I need her to be since the gun still splits my attention at this point.
I like running both.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Geez I need to move no HRC out here or UKC, limited AKC...


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

GoldenSail said:


> Geez I need to move no HRC out here or UKC, limited AKC...


Yep, it's fall hunt test season here. This past weekend started an eight week run of AKC and HRC hunt tests within a 5 hour drive. I believe the Flatcoat club is having a WC/WCX this fall too.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

gdgli said:


> Try video taping yourself and the setup, then analyze.


This advice should be posted on billboards across the nation! If you really want to improve as a handler, critique yourself. Watch video of yourself and you won't blieve some of what you're doing!

EvanG


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

hollyk said:


> Yep, it's fall hunt test season here. This past weekend started an eight week run of AKC and HRC hunt tests within a 5 hour drive. I believe the Flatcoat club is having a WC/WCX this fall too.


I'm officially jealous. I do have my sights on Washington or Oregon in a few years though... Other than the four spring tests here it is a minimum of 5 hours drive but often much more. I could drive over 8 hours for an in-state show.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Four blinds with hefty cover and over fallen branches tonight at the "Forbidden Field." REALLY nice job from everyone. The one blind we thought looked the hardest, both my guys lined, and the other one with lots of branches on the way out, Fisher did awesome getting there but tried to "cheat" coming back, little correction there. Anyways a fun time. We leave for OH on Thursday.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

K9-Design said:


> Four blinds with hefty cover and over fallen branches tonight at the "Forbidden Field." REALLY nice job from everyone. The one blind we thought looked the hardest, both my guys lined, and the other one with lots of branches on the way out, Fisher did awesome getting there but tried to "cheat" coming back, little correction there. Anyways a fun time. We leave for OH on Thursday.


What events are you doing while you are north?


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Slater is in 3 master tests. Presque Isle/Hambden this week then the double master at Western NY the following weekend.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

fingers crossed for Slater! Maybe he will go to National as a MH!


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

K9-Design said:


> Slater is in 3 master tests. Presque Isle/Hambden this week then the double master at Western NY the following weekend.


Well, if you are able to stay up a little longer the Canadian National Master starts on the 20th at Brighton, which is just east of Toronto, if you wanted to swing NE and check it out!


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

My girls were supposed to go training this evening, but a dead Battery thwarted us. They are not amused.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Shelly we have to drive home and pack for the national 
NEXT summer we're hitting the Canadian scene


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

only a so-so day in training today. 
We went to Dan's. Were there 3 hours, as he ran Tito in with his dogs that live there for training, on the stuff he had set-up for them. It was HOT and humid, 95 degrees, sunny, no breeze, and no shade. So I guess that answers my question that Tito can, in fact, work in the heat. 
Ran a long blind, 70 yards on land, angled entry into the pond, 60 yards swimming water, angled exit. Tito came to a dead stop at the water's edge, popped and looked back. Is it okay to go in???? SHEESH. Had trouble with the angled exit. We set up a couple of poles across the pond and worked some angled exits with him, and he did better. But still not *perfect*.
The land portion was 3 singles. The first one was a short, easy single about 40 yards out in moderately heavy cover. The next one was directly behind it, about 80 yards out, so they had to run directly over the old fall. The final one was about 125 yards out, just a little to the right of the previous running line(s). Tito had a hard time with the second mark, he didn't seem to be bothered by having to run over where the first mark went down, but he didn't find the mark right away and put up a very lackluster hunt. Had to put some heat on him to get more effort out of him. The only *good* thing was not a single dog picked up that mark on the first try....so I didn't feel as bad about it. It might have been the heat, but I don't really think so as he ripped out for the third single without a problem.
We're heading back out there tomorrow morning. For some strange reason, Dan doesn't seem to think that training once every 6 to 8 weeks will get Tito ready for Master???????? The nerve of him


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

K9-Design said:


> Shelly we have to drive home and pack for the national
> NEXT summer we're hitting the Canadian scene


Cool!

Smooshy man went to a show again today. Got two more points on him from Bred-by. Back to field stuff, hopefully training with the girls tomorrow, groming dogs and test setup on Friday,then our regional specialty on Saturday under Marcia Schlehr, and then judging a MH on Sunday! Too much to do!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

A much better day today. Maybe training more often might not be a bad plan?
Tito seemed to remember his lesson from yesterday on angle exits, and did a better job. Dan had a pretty easy double with a couple of blinds set up, and Tito smacked it. With some HTs coming up (HRC), we don't want to do anything too complex right now.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

So frustrated......
I took Tito out this morning for just about 20 minutes, 2 simple doubles (I thought) and a couple of singles.
He did pretty much everything wrong you can imagine. Switched falls, even though they weren't all that close together. Gave up the hunt and came back in without the bird. 
It was NOT a good morning.
Of course we simplified it and did it again, so we could finish on a success. But I am very frustrated with him right about now.


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