# E collar use for the average pet



## sam34 (9 mo ago)

It sounds like you're doing fine without one. Concerning off lead dogs on public trails I really dislike that. I really can't stand the "it's ok, my dog is friendly" and the inability of folks to call back their "well trained" dogs. It's just common courtesy to keep your dog leashed in public places regardless of how well trained it is, if there are other people around. So I'm not sure an e-collar would be an advantage there.

That said, I use one for all the field type training I do with ours. Think of it as a long distance leash and a way to tap the dog on the shoulder and remind it you are in control. It gives you a way to fine tune things, such as get a remote sit to happen quicker if the dog is being sluggish. 

I don't recommend an e-collar for the average pet because the average pet owner won't learn how to properly condition their dog to the collar. But you're on this forum, so you aren't an average pet owner.


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## green branch (Oct 24, 2020)

I am not sure you need e collar. She is young and as the time goes she will be less and less interested to approach other people and dogs.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

I use mine for field training and for off leash times in meadows in the mountains of Western NC. There are a variety of animals up there & I feel better with the e-collar when he’s out there. I agree about populated hiking trails/leashes. I had an off leash dog — a “well behaved“ German Shepherd — come up to us and growl once. The owner was a bit behind it & let it approach then nicked it right when it was right by my Golden growling. Ticked me off. It’s just rude and not safe. 

I’m not a fan of people walking dogs in the neighborhood on an e-collar w/out a leash either. Again, I’ve had these off leash e-collared dogs approach my on leash dog and I am not a fan. Plus, vehicle vs. dog is never a good scenario.

I definitely feel safer using an e-collar when I’m field training and when Logan is a ways away from me running in the mountain meadows. I don’t think I would have used an e-collar if I wasn’t doing some sort of competition training just because I wouldn’t have thought of it, but I love having it for the meadow situations. That’s not a public trail though — it’s a wide open area.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

NaughtyNala said:


> 1. What commands have you paired with your E collar? Or just recall?


Here, sit, down, heel, fetch



> 2. What freedoms has it allowed you and your dog compared to not using an E collar?


I collar condition every dog that walks in my house. Before this, I had two dogs that were reliable off leash and two that weren't. Now everyone is reliable off leash.



> 3. How often do you use it (vibrate/stim)?


Not sure I understand the question? How often for what? I do not use the vibrate function.



> 4. How long before you felt confident in using an E collar in distracting environments?


I would say average training from start to finish to being confident is 4-6 weeks.



> 5. Do you trust your dog more with an e collar? Is your dog able to be off leash in situations it was previously unable to?


Of course. See above.



> 6. Do you recommend E collar use for the average pet?
> Sorry if my questions seem silly. I haven’t researched this topic much. Thank you all in advance!


I 100% recommend an ecollar for exactly the purpose you're looking to improve.
I don't know a single person who has decided to use an ecollar for ANY purpose then regretted that decision.


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## kjengold (Jun 19, 2007)

K9-Design said:


> Here, sit, down, heel, fetch
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Which ecollar brand/model do you recommend?


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Spend the money on the better collar brand, it's worth it. Garmin or Dog Sport.

The ability to have my dogs off leash for a hike as well as let them know I have 'magical powers' to reach out over a long distance if they choose to ignore a command is huge. We hike for exercise for all of us and if I walk a mile and my older dogs walk mostly with me, they run about and get extra in at their own discretion. The youngest dog probably ends up running 3 miles around us, back and forth, circling and quartering. It allows him to get what he needs and some freedom to use his brain and explore. The dogs are not allowed out of my line of sight, if anyone approaches the dogs are called immediately to heel. They aren't allowed to approach anyone. This is a HUGE HUGE HUGE quality of life issue for our whole family. They are trained to return on a beep of the collar (just like a whistle) so that I don't have to yell at them over a distance. They actually turn on a dime with the beep, a much faster reaction than to a verbal command.

I use collar for field training and hiking. I will tell you that our dog are thrilled to hear the collar buckle rattle as it comes off the hook and beep as it's turned on, everyone crowds around because they know it means we're doing something fun. I don't know if you're familiar with k9design, but she is a talented trainer and you're lucky to have input here from her. Her dogs are extremely well adjusted, confident and loved. Proof that an educated, intelligent owner can use this tool to improve life for the dogs and the people.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

kjengold said:


> Which ecollar brand/model do you recommend?


Garmin Pro550


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## sam34 (9 mo ago)

The Garmin Sport Pro is another good one. The transmitter is smaller and easier to carry on your neck than the 550 and the collar is the same one as the 550. Just not as many features.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I have a Garmin Sport Pro and a Pro 70- more importantly imo than the brand you buy is learning to use it correctly yourself, and not letting children or anyone who has not done tutorials/class on use of one get their hands on it.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Not a fan of the sport pro although I know it is very popular. More students come to me with a sport pro than I'd like and we're constantly letting them borrow our collars for the lesson because theirs ran out of juice, not giving an effective correction, etc. 
I also tell every student to get their transmitter out of their pocket, off of around their neck and INTO THEIR HAND where it can actually do some good!


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## NaughtyNala (Dec 19, 2021)

Wow thank you everyone for your input! So far I only trust her off leash on our nearby trail because I can see people/dogs from afar before they reach us. We also frequented it on a longline many times before I trusted her off leash there. I’m not sure if the trail has gotten boring for her because she never seems to run ahead of me. She sticks by my side and sniffs along. We visit different trails but always on a longline so it’s not as enjoyable as it could be for either of us. My trainer recommended the mini educator for us.


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## NaughtyNala (Dec 19, 2021)

K9-Design said:


> Here, sit, down, heel, fetch
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply! Do you mean that if your dog isn’t following through with any command that you would use a stim until they perform the command? But a stim alone without a command means “come”? What level of stim are you using for your dogs? I know that each dog will be different. Do your dogs act differently or are slower to respond without the e collar? Also, have you ever encountered a malfunction of the equipment? That’s one of my fears.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

NaughtyNala said:


> Thank you for your reply! Do you mean that if your dog isn’t following through with any command that you would use a stim until they perform the command? But a stim alone without a command means “come”? What level of stim are you using for your dogs? I know that each dog will be different. Do your dogs act differently or are slower to respond without the e collar? Also, have you ever encountered a malfunction of the equipment? That’s one of my fears.


Yes, if my dog ignores a command, I say the command again and press the button at the same time.
On the Pro550 there are 7 levels, each level has low-medium-high settings you can choose (so essentially, 21 levels). I would say for normal every day stuff (i.e. the walks you describe), something in the 3 level is appropriate.
My personal dogs (Bally, Brix & Jamie) are not terribly collar-wise and respond equally well in casual settings with or without the ecollar. When I field train, I ALWAYS have them wear the collar, even if I don't intend to use it. My boyfriend's two dogs are super collar wise and are naughty without the collar!
I would never press the button without a command unless it was some mortal sin that didn't require a command (i.e. eating poop, paws on counter, etc).

You truly get what you paid for with ecollars. The Garmin Pro550 is $400 (don't bother shopping around...it's $400 everywhere) but it is exceedingly reliable. I never have malfunctions that aren't human error (i.e. you can pair three collars to one transmitter, and the toggle can accidentally switch dogs). But as far as frying them randomly or malfunctioning in the water, stuff like that just does not happen. I have been using the Pro550 and its predecessor the Pro500 for about 15 years.


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## sam34 (9 mo ago)

K9-Design said:


> Not a fan of the sport pro although I know it is very popular. More students come to me with a sport pro than I'd like and we're constantly letting them borrow our collars for the lesson because theirs ran out of juice, not giving an effective correction, etc.
> I also tell every student to get their transmitter out of their pocket, off of around their neck and INTO THEIR HAND where it can actually do sDome good!


Interesting. I wonder what the difference is. Same collar for both the sport pro and the pro 550. My sport pro holds a charge for a very long time and the collar is the first to show a low battery. The ineffective correction for me is usually when I bump the switch that selects the 2 collars to the second collar setting and wonder why it isn't working. I wonder if the different transmitters activate the collar differently. Agree on the bit about it hanging on your neck. Can't use it if it isn't in our hand.


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## NaughtyNala (Dec 19, 2021)

K9-Design said:


> I would never press the button without a command unless it was some mortal sin that didn't require a command (i.e. eating poop, paws on counter, etc).


I meant for recall when your dog is out of earshot. Also how often do you have to purchase the Pro550? Or is it mostly a one time purchase? $400 is a lot if it needs to be repurchased every couple years. Really appreciate your advice.


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## sam34 (9 mo ago)

NaughtyNala said:


> I meant for recall when your dog is out of earshot. Also how often do you have to purchase the Pro550? Or is it mostly a one time purchase? $400 is a lot if it needs to be repurchased every couple years. Really appreciate your advice.


Concerning recall, a whistle is the best solution. You can also train the dog to recall to the tone on the collar. Mine is trained to recall and sit to whistle commands, and trained to recall on the collar tone, as well as recall to the "here" command. The collar and controller is a 1 time purchase. Garmin also sells replacement batteries.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

NaughtyNala said:


> I meant for recall when your dog is out of earshot. Also how often do you have to purchase the Pro550? Or is it mostly a one time purchase? $400 is a lot if it needs to be repurchased every couple years. Really appreciate your advice.


Honestly, they can hear you pretty far away, so I still would rely on my voice and simply not allow them to range that far away. If you've collar conditioned to several different commands (here, sit, etc) how is the dog supposed to know what you want him to do if you just stim with no command?

A good collar like a Garmin 550 is going to last you the lifetime of the dog. You can also send them in to Collar Clinic if for some reason it needs repair. You can also re-sell a functioning unit for a good value if you decide you don't need it any more.


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## kjengold (Jun 19, 2007)

K9-Design said:


> Garmin Pro550


Thank you!


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## bitsybama (2 mo ago)

This thread is informative, as I’m a first-time dog owner, thanks for the info. 
It’s also therapeutic to read that loose dogs bother others. I can’t stand this. I rode and cared for horses all of my life. Dogs aren’t horses, but you would never allow two horses to get in each other’s space or bump noses - high likelihood of injury to the horses and their handlers. I think people underestimate the likelihood of bad outcomes in this scenario with dogs. We were just minding our own business on a long line the other day at a leash-required municipal park when a dog bounded over to us and got all up in Bitsy’s space. The owner sauntered behind at a leisurely pace, while I dealt with it for 5 minutes, and was not at all apologetic upon arrival. I don’t know you, I don’t know your dog, I don’t want your dog in my dog’s space. 

I was venting to a very experienced dog owner about this (who has helped me a TON in my first-dog experience) and she said, “Well, get used to it,” because it’s so rampant which is frustrating.


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## sam34 (9 mo ago)

You shouldn't have to get used to it. I have no bones a about telling a dog's owner to put it on a leash in a public place if it gets into our space. I'm generally not nice about it.


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## NaughtyNala (Dec 19, 2021)

Overtime I have had to learn how to advocate for me and my dog. What’s more important than having a strong recall? Being respectful and understanding why it’s inappropriate for your dog to run up to other dogs/people and being vigilant of your surroundings. However, teaching recall is easier. I’ve had dogs with e collars run up to my leashed dog. It could have the best recall in the world but didn’t matter in that moment.


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## NaughtyNala (Dec 19, 2021)

sam34 said:


> Concerning recall, a whistle is the best solution. You can also train the dog to recall to the tone on the collar. Mine is trained to recall and sit to whistle commands, and trained to recall on the collar tone, as well as recall to the "here" command. The collar and controller is a 1 time purchase. Garmin also sells replacement batteries.


Do you ever worry of someone else using a whistle and your dog recalling to them? One of the issues Nala was having in her obedience class was that she would recall when other owners were recalling their dogs. However, only to other female owners voices it seems like. Maybe it’s more similar in tone to mine.


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## sam34 (9 mo ago)

NaughtyNala said:


> Do you ever worry of someone else using a whistle and your dog recalling to them? One of the issues Nala was having in her obedience class was that she would recall when other owners were recalling their dogs. However, only to other female owners voices it seems like. Maybe it’s more similar in tone to mine.


I've never really given that any thought. Haven't been in situations where there were multiple whistles in use simultaneously. FWIW, most people blow theirs somewhat differently. For me, 3 short blasts is for recall, and one slightly longer one is sit. There are also a lot of subtle body language cues as well, so the whistle gets the dogs attention, but it's looking at you for cues the whole time. 

Concerning voice, I have a name for that. It's the "puppy voice" that many owners (usually women) use for calling their dogs. It's often heard in public when someone comes up to you and says, "What a cute PUPPY!" The dogs love it, and it's a huge draw. Mine still goes kind of nuts over the puppy voice while she'll often ignore just about anyone else.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

I was training Logan retrieves once down by our pond area and a man working on a bridge on the other side of the creek a ways yelled, “Beautiful dog!” and then he yelled “Here, Boy!” Logan was sniffing at the moment in between retrieves (wearing his e-collar) and I was surprised because he started running hard towards the man. I yelled “Here!” and Logan cut off immediately and came right back to me. Thank goodness for teaching a good recall. It threw me off because I never thought about Logan listening to a stranger’s command like that. Oh, and the man yelled “Wow! He listens well!” Jeez. Some people don’t have any sense/manners.

In the past (when I was younger) I may have had some hesitancy in dealing with people, but now I just speak up. I’ll be polite if they are being polite. Just last week a lady in the neighborhood asked me if her Standard Poodle could meet Logan. The dog was stopped in the middle of the street and was refusing to move as we walked up the street from about a half a block away. It was out in front of the lady on a flexi lead. I smiled and said, “No. He’s not allowed.” She sheepishly said, “Okay. Mine has a really bad case of lunging (!! Telling me that after she asked for them to meet! Lolol) and I’m wanting him to get used to other dogs so he will stop. He put me on the concrete the other day and it hurt.” 

I mean… I‘m sure he would have lunged at us if I had walked up on her request. I told her if she let him meet everyone he lunged towards, it would reinforce the lunging. She said, “I know.” Nuts.

So… I agree — advocate for your own dog and it’s fine to tell people no. If they’ve already been rude, it’s useful to be more forceful about it. My husband lifted an off leash dog up by its back legs one time when it charged and jumped on Logan while the man/owner did nothing. Logan was on lead and came up from it all alert and tail wagging, but that could have been disastrous.


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## chelseah (Dec 8, 2020)

This thread has been very informative, I have been thinking I need to train my girl who is a little over 1 with an e collar. Does anyone know of a good step by step video program? I think I saw some mentioned in a previous thread, but I can’t find it.


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## streakgr (8 mo ago)

I'm a first-time owner in the UK where e-collars are deeply frowned upon, but as a vet I know for a fact that freedom to sniff/run/explore and get proper exercise is what the vast majority of dogs are lacking in this country, so off-lead freedom is paramount to me. I work daily with dogs that are neurotic and anxious due to a lack of this freedom. I also work daily with dog-reactive dogs that wouldn't be this way if they hadn't charged up to the wrong dog off-lead, or hadn't been charged by such a dog. So I bit the bullet and conditioned her despite the judgement, absolutely no regrets. The most powerful and liberating step I've ever taken for us both.

I taught myself using books (Monks of New Skete, Larry Krohn) and Youtube, and am really glad we did it. We both have stress-free unparalleled freedom anywhere and she is polite and a pleasure to be around at just 8 months old.

1. What commands have you paired with your E collar? Or just recall?
Recall, heel, down, leave it, stay, place.

2. What freedoms has it allowed you and your dog compared to not using an E collar?
She is off-lead 90% of the time (fields/woods/parks not roads or streets), and we explore new hiking trails every couple of weeks. Unchecked, she would rush over to every dog and person, but it's effortless to call her to heel and walk past these when we see them. She does it automatically now. Her manners are great so she can go to work with me, cafes/pubs, markets, friend's houses, wherever. I can let her off lead stress-free because I know that whatever distraction/temptation/danger, I can call her back. She is safe from strange dogs and other people/dogs are safe from her exuberant greetings! My family (who know nothing about dogs) can look after her and enjoy her because they are confident she will listen to them.

3. How often do you use it (vibrate/stim)?
It is on her 100% of the time she is off lead because it's there for those unexpected moments. I use the stim perhaps a couple of times per week (mostly a little nick for ducking away to poke her nose in someone's bakery bag when she's supposed to be in heel!). Rarely for recall now. Occasional bigger one for those dreadful habits like cow-pat eating. I don't use vibrate, it makes her jump out her out of her skin and is not useful to me because it can't be turned up or down.

4. How long before you felt confident in using an E collar in distracting environments?
Training period for us both was 6-8wks.

5. Do you trust your dog more with an e collar? Is your dog able to be off leash in situations it was previously unable to?
Totally, I trust her a lot more.

6. Do you recommend E collar use for the average pet?
Yes, Winnie is a pet. We worked really hard, like you, on a solid training foundation, then layered on the collar. We have a running joke that everyone who meets Winnie wants a Winnie. Because she's a polite, calm (i.e. well-exercised!) and trustworthy pet.

I know you asked for experienced owners, but I thought I'd show that if you go in well-informed and use it fairly and empathetically it can open up your world. I did it with no prior dog training experience, no support, and a whole boatload of criticism! Quite a few critics are converted now they see her quality of life.

I use the mini educator from E-Collar Technologies. As others have said, spend the money for a quality product that is highly unlikely to malfunction and can be finely tuned. Winnie works on 7-10/100 around mild distractions, and 20-30/100 around high level distractions (running dogs/wildlife)


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## NaughtyNala (Dec 19, 2021)

streakgr said:


> I'm a first-time owner in the UK where e-collars are deeply frowned upon, but as a vet I know for a fact that freedom to sniff/run/explore and get proper exercise is what the vast majority of dogs are lacking in this country, so off-lead freedom is paramount to me. I work daily with dogs that are neurotic and anxious due to a lack of this freedom. I also work daily with dog-reactive dogs that wouldn't be this way if they hadn't charged up to the wrong dog off-lead, or hadn't been charged by such a dog. So I bit the bullet and conditioned her despite the judgement, absolutely no regrets. The most powerful and liberating step I've ever taken for us both.
> 
> I taught myself using books (Monks of New Skete, Larry Krohn) and Youtube, and am really glad we did it. We both have stress-free unparalleled freedom anywhere and she is polite and a pleasure to be around at just 8 months old.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your thorough response! It’s great that you’ve been able to fulfill your dog’s needs with the help of the e collar. It’s interesting to hear about how other countries view the usage of different tools in dog training. I believe there’s a stereotype that dogs in Europe are generally better behaved than ones in the US. I believe there are fewer leash laws? Maybe dogs are exposed to off leash freedom earlier on and learn acceptable behaviors around other people and dogs. I’m sure the topic is much more complex. What I find interesting is also how some tools are more accepted on certain breeds. Or more widely used on some breeds. For example, I’ve never seen a golden retriever in person with an e collar. However, I’ve seen many Dobermans and GSPs with e collars. It’s probably correlated with the type of owners to get certain breeds and the breed’s exercise needs. I guess people are generally more accepting of misbehaved golden retrievers.


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## streakgr (8 mo ago)

NaughtyNala said:


> Thank you so much for your thorough response! It’s great that you’ve been able to fulfill your dog’s needs with the help of the e collar. It’s interesting to hear about how other countries view the usage of different tools in dog training. I believe there’s a stereotype that dogs in Europe are generally better behaved than ones in the US. I believe there are fewer leash laws? Maybe dogs are exposed to off leash freedom earlier on and learn acceptable behaviors around other people and dogs. I’m sure the topic is much more complex. What I find interesting is also how some tools are more accepted on certain breeds. Or more widely used on some breeds. For example, I’ve never seen a golden retriever in person with an e collar. However, I’ve seen many Dobermans and GSPs with e collars. It’s probably correlated with the type of owners to get certain breeds and the breed’s exercise needs. I guess people are generally more accepting of misbehaved golden retrievers.


I'm afraid the stereotype is not founded on much, a dog will behave like a dog wherever it is, unless somebody teaches it to live by human rules. Unfortunately, the general public in the UK are no more informed or competent than anyone anywhere else. The majority of dogs belong to people who keep them as substitute children and go all their lives with little to no training! I am at the messy end of this every day, the most competent owners I have as clients are without doubt working gundog owners and ex-military or ex-police handlers.

I can't comment on continental Europe, but there are very few leash laws in the UK, but to be quite honest dogs get good at what they practice. Off-lead dogs are everywhere here, and so these dogs get to rehearse how much fun it is screeching up to others and doing what they want. Those that have a bad experience doing this learn to be the first to rush up and make a lot of noise to get the other dog to go away. Because there are few leash laws, nobody seems to appreciate that having an off-lead dog is a hard-earned privilege and not a right. Unless I drive a couple of hours to somewhere remote, every walk we have involves around 6-8 incidents with out of control off-lead dogs. Winnie is under immense pressure to be steady when they're up in her face and running circles round us, but it's part of the daily routine. I wish Brits were more accepting of e-collars and muzzles, we would have a much calmer and less frazzling daily life. But I can be calm knowing Winnie is safe and under control.

I agree with the breed predisposition, I suspect it's because misbehaving dogs that look threatening tend to be stigmatised (and often genuinely do more damage when out of control), so their owners are keen to get control to avoid trouble. So your Dobie and Pittie owners are more likely to adopt e-collars to achieve that I suppose. Owners of softer breeds like Goldens get away with a lot more because their bad behaviour tends to have benign origins and is often forgiven by people. As far as I'm concerned any dog of any breed should never be anyone else's problem except the owner's, all of them should be under control!


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## green branch (Oct 24, 2020)

NaughtyNala said:


> For example, I’ve never seen a golden retriever in person with an e collar. However, I’ve seen many Dobermans and GSPs with e collars. It’s probably correlated with the type of owners to get certain breeds and the breed’s exercise needs. I guess people are generally more accepting of misbehaved golden retrievers.


Dobermans and German Shepherds were bred to be protective. When they approach strangers they might have a different message to convey than a goofy young Golden.
I owned a Doberman in the past, and now own a Golden and a shepherd mix.


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