# Lyme Disease diagnosis :(



## mamamia (Jan 8, 2008)

Hi. I haven't been on this board in a while, but I'm hoping some of you can provide me with information, insight, or just a sympathetic ear. I took my Teddy to the vet today for an unrelated issue, and I mentioned that he's been limping a little since Friday. On Friday he played with a standard poodle that we'd just met, and they were chasing each other all over the yard having a great time. I figured that he just over-exerted himself, maybe strained or twisted something, and that he'd need to take it easy for a few days. The vet took a blood test, and just called to say it was positive for Lyme.  He's going to start on antibiotics tomorrow. The vet said that he thinks he'll fully recover and that there won't be any lasting effects, but I'm incredibly nervous right now.

Can somebody please share their Lyme experience (hopefully with a happy ending)? Also, what is the general consensus regarding the Lyme vaccine? My vet wants to vaccinate Teddy after he's done with the course of antibiotics, but my breeder recommended against getting that vaccine.

Thank you!:crossfing


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

Hello again. He should be fine. Don't worry. My Sam had Lyme which presented as lameness in his right front leg. He was given doxycycline and was fine. I too had Lyme and was treated successfully with antibiotics without lasting effects. I'm sure he'll be feeling better very soon.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I have successfully treated one dog and unsuccessfully treated another. I have a 3rd being treated now. The doxy works wonders, especially if you catch it early.

Did the vet run a C6 test? That should be run before the antibiotic begins. It gives you a numerical value for the Lyme.

Here is the information on the C6:

http://www.idexx.com/animalhealth/laboratory/c6/

Six months after treatment, another C6 is run. If the value is half that of the first one, you have successfully treated the Lyme disease.

OTOH, if the initial C6 is less than 30, no treatment is necessary.

There is a wealth of information here on Lyme disease as well:

http://www.vintagegoldens.com/tick.htm

I do not give the vaccine. In some instances, it can cause Lyme-like symptoms but unlike Lyme disease, there is no cure.


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## MaxwellSmart (Aug 11, 2008)

A few years ago Max was being boarded at our vet while the family went on vacation. While he was there he was going to get a full physical. While in the hotel room, my cell rang and it was the vet calling to tell me that Max had Lyme and he was prescribing an antibiotic. When I hung up the phone I burst into tears. I felt so incredibly guilty because it's something that could've and should've been prevented. I was so mad at myself. I remember thinking that I must have forgotten to put on his Frontline. I didn't know that much about Lyme I just knew it was bad and can be prevented. The vet did tell me that it was cureable and that he'll be just fine. But it didn't help my guilt. I was hundreds of miles away and my boy was sick. 

He was absolutely fine though. There were no side effects, I didn't notice a change in him at all throughout the antibiotics. He went for a check up a few months later and was cleared. 
I don't know about the vaccination our vet never brought it up.


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

MaxwellSmart, Don't feel guilty. Sam was on Frontline when he contracted Lymes. I use Advantix for Ike.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

The majority of cases of Lyme are cleared up with a four week course of doxycycline. 

The current Lyme vaccine is formulated differently than the one that was withdrawn from the market in 2002 after allegations of Lyme-like symptoms and some other side effects. The current vaccine in use is regarded highly as about 60% effective in preventing the disease and mitigating the severity of the disease if it does get through. If you're in an area where Lyme is common, the disease is much worse than the potential complications from the vaccine.

Prevention is most important. Frontline or Advantix combined with careful checks is the best way to avoid the whole kit and kaboodle. Nonetheless, they do manage to get through, and it's nothing to feel guilty about.


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## kjarv24 (Nov 7, 2008)

I think its good that things were caught early and your vet tested for this. 
I had a friend with a great dane who had lyme, and No one ever even thought about this - This girl seen vet after vet, specialists and as Lyme took its course Neurologists..etc.. She was in bad condition! Finally her owner started to do he research, Lyme was brought up - & Yep she was positive for Lyme. Now this girl is on a long road to recovery and only after a few weeks on her Antibiotics she started to show signs of getting better 
So, thats why its great things were caught early! I thing things will be just fine - Looks like you have some encouraging words from the others also.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I don't have any personal experience with Lyme, but I do know sometimes if the dog tests positive for lyme they will check for other tick borne diseases as well. You might want to ask your vet about it.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Lyme is very treatable and in most cases when it is detected the dog is asymtomatic. It is estimated that only 5-10% of dogs get Lyme but for some unknown reason Goldens are more susceptible. In most cases when treated Lyme is not an issue. And it is not the Lyme that is the issue but a immune reaction to the antigen that cuases the dog's body to attack itself. And as of last I knew they still do not know which one it is so by giving the vaccine you may prevent the dog from getting Lyme but still introduce that antigen and thus be a much worse scenario. At this time I am still firmly against the vaccine.


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

What was his number? They are actually telling you he has built up antibodies to Lyme disease which may mean, well not much. Do the doxy, more is better and then get him tested again in six months. Finn's number was low to begin with and then much lower.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

We live in a very *highly* active Lyme area. Both humans in the household have had it (including me)...and four of our dogs have had it (spread out over 13 years). My SIL has had it, his dogs have had it. Our Vet sees 3-4 cases a DAY here. We often have other tick borne illnesses along with the Lyme...especially Ehrlichiosis. I just had a dog die last month ... but not from Lyme...from Ehrlichiosis.

Whenever a dog goes into the Vet for anything (limping, vomiting, fever, won't eat...or just seems "off"), the first thing he does is run a SNAP 4Dx test (in house test for Lyme, Ehrlichiosis, Anaplasmosis, and HW). 

Everyone here came through the Lyme treatment just fine. The key is to get it early...and if you just saw a limp, I'd say he'll be okay. The danger is if kidney problems present...or neuro issues. It doesn't sound like that's the case. Often the Vet will check to make sure the kidneys are functioning well to make sure there's no Lyme nephritis. But you'd have a very sick dog if there was...generally not just a limp.

I did have one that had to be dosed twice (two separate 6 week regimen's of Doxycycline), but he was very ill when he was diagnosed, plus he had Lyme and Ehrlichiosis. He never limped...but suddenly started vomiting and had a very high fever.

Lyme can lie dormant with NO symptoms for a while. That's what happened with our Molly. We just happened to catch it on an annual exam. She was totally asymptomatic. 

I would strongly suggest that you give your pup a Pepcid AC 30 mins before giving the doxycycline......AND give the doxy ONLY with a full meal. That stuff can really tear up the stomach and the esophagus.

Our Vet always gives the Doxy if there's a positive Lyme test on a SNAP. He also takes blood and sends it out for a C6 Antibody test....and he runs a C6 again at the end of the medication (about a week after it's finished), just to make sure the Lyme titer is in the normal range. If not, back on antibiotics the dog will go. Also...in 6 mos another C6 is run...just to recheck.

Good luck with your boy. Chances are VERY high that he'll be just fine.

We use Frontline Plus AND get the *new* Lyme vaccines here. We still have problems.


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

I'm vaccinating my now, too. Lymes and Lepto are really surging around here now. I don't know if it is right or wrong, I can only hope for the best.


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## daisydogmom (Feb 26, 2007)

My old dog Sadie was diagnosed with Lyme disease after developing a slight limp. She was actually on Frontline year-round when she was bitten by a tick (in February!) years ago. I think we gave her too many baths after being skunked right after the Frontline application. She took the Doxy and recovered very quickly with no lasting problems from it at all. There's a big Lyme disease problem here in Massachusetts, so I do vaccinate my current dog. I hope Teddy feels better soon!


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## mamamia (Jan 8, 2008)

Thank you for all your encouraging words. I'm feeling a little better and a little more informed, but still mostly nervous and confused. On the phone, my vet said a 3 week course of antibiotics -- should I ask to do it longer? I'm also nervous about the potential stomach problems with the doxy. The main reason I took Teddy to the vet in the first place today was because of stomach problems, which I thought were caused by his eating rocks and plastic. (We still haven't found the battery cover from a calculator that he knocked off my desk last week. I can only assume it is still in his stomach.) Now I'm wondering if the diarrhea is somehow related to the Lyme. Or will the doxy make his stomach problems worse.

The test the vet did is called "IDEXX 4DX - LYME/E.EQUI/E.CANIS/HW". The vet didn't say anything about C6, and at the time I spoke with him, I didn't know to ask about it. I'll ask tomorrow when I go in to pick up the antibiotics.

I'm feeling very guilty that I didn't start the Frontline a month ago. I didn't use it last summer/fall because he was less than 6 months old at the time and I didn't want to put the chemicals on such a young pup. He's 10 months old now, and I'm so sad that my baby boy is having such problems.

I'll do more research about the vaccine, get more info from my vet about it, and ask my breeder why she is so opposed to it.

Please continue to send good thoughts Teddy's way! Thanks!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

One thing that's worth knowing: dairy products can interfere with the function of doxycycline. Do not give doxycycline and any dairy product at the same time.

If the dog isn't very sick, a three week course of doxy may be indicated, but more and more vets are giving longer courses since doxy is so well tolerated by most dogs.


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## Traz (Jan 19, 2009)

I am not getting the lyme vaccine for our puppy. It is not very affective & if the dog gets it, the test for lymes may not be accurate because the titer to test for lymes will be thrown off. I like to see at least a 90% effectivenesss before I consider a vaccine. Lymes is also easily treated as many have said.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

My vet is now going with the higher dose of doxy (600 mg per day for my girl) but for a 4-week period. I am still going with the 8 week time frame since she tolerates it so well, but it does appear that the shorter time frame with the higher dose has had good success.


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## mamamia (Jan 8, 2008)

Just got back from picking up the doxy at the vet. Teddy will get 600mg per day for 3 weeks. I asked the vet about taking it longer, and he said since we caught it so early that he thinks 3 weeks will be long enough.

I also asked about the C6 test, and he said they don't typically do that. He said that the test is somewhat controversial and not always accurate. He mentioned some other test, which I can't remember the name of, that is quite expensive. Maybe something about getting the specific DNA of the bacteria or something like that?

Should I be looking for a new vet? Any recommendations on how to go about finding one?


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

I have never heard any controversy over the C6 test. The other test your vet referred to was a Western Blot Test. I would ask for the C6 test to be done after the three week course of doxy. If the results were below 30 I would repeat the C6 test in 6 months to see where the count was then. If it was still below 30 I would consider it ok and mot treat any further. If it was above 30 I would again treat with doxy and repeat the C6 again in 6 months. 
And if it is below 30 and you do another Snap4DX it will show a "weak" positive which should not be an alarm. I went through this with my Lucy years ago abd after 3 years the Snap4DX eventially showed clear.


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## mamamia (Jan 8, 2008)

Ok, now I'm mostly just annoyed that my vet doesn't want to do the C6. Should I call him back and ask that it be done now anyway? Should I wait until Teddy has finished this course of doxy? Should I find a new vet? Ugh.


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## Angel_Kody (Feb 27, 2007)

You can certainly ask your vet to do the C6 test after the treatment. It is your choice. Jester tested positive last year for Lyme (no symptoms) and was treated. My vet only suggested not doing the C6 test because she felt that it was caught very early and that the treatment was most likely successful. She was also trying to save me the money which I appreciated but.... I did have her do the test later anyway because I had signed up for pet insurance and I didn't want the Lyme dx to be considered a pre-existing condition. The test came back a 12 which was good.

Don't feel guilty about any of it. I hate using the chemicals on Jester and even after what happened last year I slacked off again with his Frontline application and found a deer tick on him in December! He is going for his annual tomorrow and I will ask for another C6 test to see if he was infected again.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

I would first talk to the vet and find out exactly what his concern (controversy) is with the test. I would be more upset if he was pushing other things. He may truely be convinced that you got it early enough and the treatment of doxy will definitely work. And seeing you live in the "heart" of Lyme country I would think he is very much acquainted with Lyme.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I think your vet was referring to doing a PCR test(which is expensive) instead of a c6. This is because the c6 measures antibodies, as someone mentioned, and the PCR detects live DNA from the virus itself. If you can get the Idexx C6 below 30, then you can breathe easier and it is a significant thing to know. They recommend it 6 months after Doxy. What I personally think is best is to do a c6 the minute a Snap4dx turns up positive for Lyme( It seems like your vet did a Snap3), before Doxy?? Then a week or so after the antibiotic is concluded, you can do another c6 and hope it's fallen measurably. Tango had a c6 of 93 with no symptoms- 4 weeks of Doxy- now her c6 is 31. It is very difficult for GP vets to stay on top of all the newest developments with tick borne diseases. Because I am a worrier, any dog I have who has been Lyme positive, I do a CBC every 6 month to check liver/kidney function bc of lyme nephritis. This is excessive, but I need to do it for peace of mind. None of dogs have experienced stomach problems with doxy, but they get it with a full meal each time. Tippykayak is right to warn you away from dairy products.


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