# Need to vent! Walking on leash



## Chaya (Aug 18, 2012)

I want to add that she make GREAT eye contact during our walks, but usually it'll be from the end of the leash, and the look is "mom why are you SO SLOW??xoxoxo", or "ok, I've been walking at your side for a pretty long time, please feed me so I can go off and smell that p-email"


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

How does she walk when she is OFF leash. She might be leash reactive. I had a dog that walked beautifully off leash as soon as I put the leash on him all he did was pull it was horrible. 

One thing you might try is to do some fun run around excerise before you start your walk. Do you have a yard that you could toss a ball. Try playing some fetch for 5 minutes before you start out on your walk especially if she has been in a crate for any lenght of time or even just holed up in the house. If you dont have a yard to play in maybe do some find it games with her in the house. After she has found some yummy treats then practice some sit/stays then head out for your walk. Also are you doing any obedience training on these walks if not you should throw some sits, downs, come forwards in there. This mixes it up and will keep her on her toes as she will not know what is going to happen. I will even use some trees and do some figure 8's with Jige on our walks.


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## Hombrespop (Sep 3, 2012)

Have you tried walking your dog with a pinch collar and let her self correct when she pulls ? This worked for my dogs and all my goldens (5) in all have gone to obedience class's and this I credit for dogs that I can take for a walk and not become aggravated even my 6 mos old puppy walks fairly well and is learning acceptable behavior.


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## Chaya (Aug 18, 2012)

Nuggetsdad said:


> Have you tried walking your dog with a pinch collar and let her self correct when she pulls ? This worked for my dogs and all my goldens (5) in all have gone to obedience class's and this I credit for dogs that I can take for a walk and not become aggravated even my 6 mos old puppy walks fairly well and is learning acceptable behavior.



Yes, last year we bought a prong collar after reading many threads on this forum about good results, but she ended up just pulling until she felt a pain (and she really doesn't mind a good amount of pain), and kept on walking at that tension level. So in the end, she still pulled, and I was scared to give any corrections because of my fear that any pressure on my end + her self inflicted pressure will damage her neck. It turn out that whether she's on a prong or a regular collar, she's pulling pretty much the same amount, so we decided to ditch the prong. I made sure that it was fitted correctly, nice and high on her neck, and tried to give corrections that were quick and to the point. Didn't bother her at all.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Harness. We use the Sporn, used to use Gentle Leader. We don't use the one that goes around the face, Max spent more time trying to get that off than we did walking. The one that goes around his body works pretty well. Max is five, and we're still working on walking on leash without taking Mom's shoulder out. One trick that's been working well - although progress has been slow, there had definitely been progress - is to bring along a stick of string cheese. Every time he comes close to me, he gets a nibble. I've slowly reduced it to a nibble every third or fourth time, and a huge "GOOD BOY!" the other times. We've gone from two sticks of cheese per mile, to less than 1/2 a stick!


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## Chaya (Aug 18, 2012)

General V said:


> How does she walk when she is OFF leash. She might be leash reactive. I had a dog that walked beautifully off leash as soon as I put the leash on him all he did was pull it was horrible.
> 
> One thing you might try is to do some fun run around excerise before you start your walk. Do you have a yard that you could toss a ball. Try playing some fetch for 5 minutes before you start out on your walk especially if she has been in a crate for any lenght of time or even just holed up in the house. If you dont have a yard to play in maybe do some find it games with her in the house. After she has found some yummy treats then practice some sit/stays then head out for your walk. Also are you doing any obedience training on these walks if not you should throw some sits, downs, come forwards in there. This mixes it up and will keep her on her toes as she will not know what is going to happen. I will even use some trees and do some figure 8's with Jige on our walks.


Thanks for the great ideas! She's really good on her morning and evening walks, because she knows that we never go anywhere "fun" on those walks. It's just the noon walks, where I like to take her to a variety of fun places. She only pulls on the outbound trip, and never on the inbound, and it's not always because she's tired. If, after an hour of long-range fetch, she thinks we're going to another park, she'll still pull!

Off leash, she is very responsive to my body language and voice commands, but her natural pace/place is about 5-10 feet in front of me. She does a great job of constantly checking in with me, but feels a natural urge to trot ahead of me a few feet. This translates perfectly to her desired position on leash, but unfortunately for that to work, I'd need to walk her on a 10ft leash!

I really like your idea of doing obedience during walks. That'll work her little brain!


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## Chaya (Aug 18, 2012)

laprincessa said:


> Harness. We use the Sporn, used to use Gentle Leader. We don't use the one that goes around the face, Max spent more time trying to get that off than we did walking. The one that goes around his body works pretty well. Max is five, and we're still working on walking on leash without taking Mom's shoulder out. One trick that's been working well - although progress has been slow, there had definitely been progress - is to bring along a stick of string cheese. Every time he comes close to me, he gets a nibble. I've slowly reduced it to a nibble every third or fourth time, and a huge "GOOD BOY!" the other times. We've gone from two sticks of cheese per mile, to less than 1/2 a stick!



I'm glad to hear there's another mature and spirited walker around! I second the power of yummy treats - in fact up until 2 weeks ago when I found out Chaya had gained about 5 lbs in a month(!!!) we were using tons and tons of treats, exactly how you did with Max. It worked really well despite her weight gain, until she decides that in her excitement to reach the "fun place", she can't be bothered with food. She's actually spit out hot dogs after couldn't be bothered with swallowing it as we near the park! Maybe I'll have to bring out the steak next time.....


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

You are far from being alone. If we leave the house with the chuck it ball in my bag and head towards the park.....all bets are off and he can't get there fast enough. I am constantly on top of him. He walks off leash home 

If we take off without his toys in the other direction or anywhere else he will walk lose leash or off leash with no problem. Wyatt is 2 1/2.


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## Nomes (Nov 7, 2011)

Casey is a crazy psycho dog...but on walk he is a perfect gentleman...literally! how did we achieve this miraculous transformation on walks? obedience classes!  i'm guessing maybe one or two classes from a GOOD place will work miracles! it's that good ol' "heel" that she needs to learn! Casey had to start out with a choke chain...bumped him up to a prong because he was so hyperactive. Now he heels beautifully on a flat collar with no pulling! even when the cats (his evil arch-enemies) walk with us.
I hope you find a solution! I think a basic obedience class just might do the trick!
she is jaw-dropping gorgeous by the way!


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## Chaya (Aug 18, 2012)

I feel like such a bad mom for feeling so frustrated during a difficult walk - the anger can really swell up in me, which I'm sure doesn't help the issue at all! I try so hard to brush it off, and say, not a big deal, just having a bad day, she's so good at everything else...etc.

It's just that Chaya is SO well-behaved and so conscientious of what we want in every other aspect of our lives....I just feel such a barrier between her and me (my husband has the same problems walk her) when we go for our midday walks.

If I had a genie in a lamp, loose leash walking would for sure be one of my wishes!


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## Chaya (Aug 18, 2012)

Wyatt's mommy said:


> You are far from being alone. If we leave the house with the chuck it ball in my bag and head towards the park.....all bets are off and he can't get there fast enough. I am constantly on top of him. He walks off leash home
> 
> If we take off without his toys in the other direction or anywhere else he will walk lose leash or off leash with no problem. Wyatt is 2 1/2.



Same here! Chaya gets a deranged look in her eyes and starts to drool when she sees her chuck-it. It's funny because I can actually tell that she's trying to walk well with the chuck-it, because she knows that she can only get to the park loose leash....unfortunately every once in a while she looses control of herself and gives me a few hard bounce-pulls that literally can jerk me off my feet. On the way home from fetch, she acts like I'm taking her to the vet.


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## Chaya (Aug 18, 2012)

Nomes said:


> Casey is a crazy psycho dog...but on walk he is a perfect gentleman...literally! how did we achieve this miraculous transformation on walks? obedience classes!  i'm guessing maybe one or two classes from a GOOD place will work miracles! it's that good ol' "heel" that she needs to learn! Casey had to start out with a choke chain...bumped him up to a prong because he was so hyperactive. Now he heels beautifully on a flat collar with no pulling! even when the cats (his evil arch-enemies) walk with us.
> I hope you find a solution! I think a basic obedience class just might do the trick!
> she is jaw-dropping gorgeous by the way!



We may have to resort to going back to class...maybe a quick private session or two before our new puppy arrives. Is it mean to make her heel the whole walk? I want her to be able to sniff around and enjoy herself, but just not feel like she has to strain and pull to get everywhere.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

Chaya said:


> Same here! Chaya gets a deranged look in her eyes and starts to drool when she sees her chuck-it. It's funny because I can actually tell that she's trying to walk well with the chuck-it, because she knows that she can only get to the park loose leash....unfortunately every once in a while she looses control of herself and gives me a few hard bounce-pulls that literally can jerk me off my feet. On the way home from fetch, she acts like I'm taking her to the vet.


 
LOL! I have found if I let Wyatt carry the ball it works a little better. Maybe that will help.

When we go to the park we also meet up with Wyatt's buddy (another golden) And if he isn't there when we get there he will sit and look in the direction of where they are coming from and just wait. I can barely get him to play. Gotta wait for my buddy, gotta wait for my buddy! Then once his buddy get's there........it's all about showing off. Gotta love those dogs!


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

We have had very good success with Max using the Gentle Leader Head Collar. He was very resistant the first time we put it on him, but soon after he began to walk very well, loose leash, with it. Now, especially when he is tired, he will even walk loose leash with an old fashioned choke/slip collar.

But when I want an easy walk, I use the GL. I think he knows that when the GL is on, he has to mind and walk properly.


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## Chaya (Aug 18, 2012)

Max's Dad said:


> We have had very good success with Max using the Gentle Leader Head Collar. He was very resistant the first time we put it on him, but soon after he began to walk very well, loose leash, with it. Now, especially when he is tired, he will even walk loose leash with an old fashioned choke/slip collar.
> 
> But when I want an easy walk, I use the GL. I think he knows that when the GL is on, he has to mind and walk properly.



I know how you feel, Max's dad, when I want to take a break from training and just want to walk somewhere, I'll use the easy-walk harness. Thing is, Chaya's figured out the sweet spot so that the leash is just tight enough so that she feels like she's leading the way, but because of the design of the harness, it's not tight enough for me to register as a "pull". These doggies are so good at figuring out just how much they need to behave to get what they want!


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## Chaya (Aug 18, 2012)

Wyatt's mommy said:


> LOL! I have found if I let Wyatt carry the ball it works a little better. Maybe that will help.
> 
> When we go to the park we also meet up with Wyatt's buddy (another golden) And if he isn't there when we get there he will sit and look in the direction of where they are coming from and just wait. I can barely get him to play. Gotta wait for my buddy, gotta wait for my buddy! Then once his buddy get's there........it's all about showing off. Gotta love those dogs!



I'll definitely try the ball idea. In the past I've tried to put a backpack on her, but couldn't stop laughing at how pronounced her waddle is


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

Chya is a very good-looking dog.

My 2 girls (2 and 6 years) wear a product called a "snoot" loop (snootloop.com), when we go somewhere special. They are pretty good, now, on flat buckle collars for everyday. The snoot loop is similar to a Gentle Leader, except it is lighter and does not fasten tightly under the chin. Because it does not fasten tightly, but slides up and down, it tightens only when the dog pulls and loosens when they stop, providing its own reward to stop pulling. When I first put it on my girls they flopped about like fish on the end of the line, but with consistency--everyday, every time we went out, they accepted it easily, and came to understand that the snoot loop meant we were going somewhere good. Now they only wear it occassionally, when going somewhere super special, such as the wave pool, and they eagerly place their noses in it. 

The snoot loop is very similar in design to a horses halter. I can easily walk my 1600 pound horse with nothing but a halter and lead shank (equivalent of snoot loop and leash). Occassionally a young horse will try to act up on the end of the lead and you can place the lead chain over his nose which tightens if he misbehaves, the same as the snoot loop. 

Would it be possible to mix up your schedule? Some mornings take her to the park or in the evening, so she doesn't anticipate so much, because she does not know when the "good" stuff is going to happen.

Keep trying, one day that "light" will come on 25% then 30 and so on until she is well behaved on the end of the leash.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

I just posted something but it disappeared - strange.

Anyways, I was just going to say that I had trained dozens of Guide Dogs how to walk not only loose-leash but also at a particular angle to the person, all with force-free methods.

Then I met Cosmo. He just isn't made for leash walking. High arousal, scent-working and leash-reactivity combine to make all our lives hell when he's on leash. 

We moved to the suburbs, drive to off-leash areas, do Nosework or play in the yard to get his exercise.

We laugh now when we think of how we used to try to walk him.

Also, try a Thundershirt. Can take the edge of the arousal.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Chaya said:


> I feel like such a bad mom for feeling so frustrated during a difficult walk - the anger can really swell up in me, which I'm sure doesn't help the issue at all! I try so hard to brush it off, and say, not a big deal, just having a bad day, she's so good at everything else...etc.
> 
> It's just that Chaya is SO well-behaved and so conscientious of what we want in every other aspect of our lives....I just feel such a barrier between her and me (my husband has the same problems walk her) when we go for our midday walks.
> 
> If I had a genie in a lamp, loose leash walking would for sure be one of my wishes!


I get frustrated as well - you are totally not alone there. Max can be a perfect angel all the way to the corner - but his best friend - a 2 year old Husky named Keno - lives in the house on the corner and most days they get to play for as long as Keno's mom and I will let them. If Keno isn't home, I have to use every trick I can think of to get him to move. And he'll pull me towards Keno's door, no matter what I do. 

I try to remind myself to relax my muscles, and it really does help. Less tension in me is less tension on the leash, and it seems to help him to focus more on me.


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## njoyqd (Oct 20, 2012)

i know this truly isn't a laughing matter for you. But, all I could think of is that saying, "if you aren't the lead dog the view never changes!" I feel sure you will be able to come to a solution. You are committed and working hard. I really don't have any new suggestions. The pinch collar was working great for our Phoebe. I just hope she remembers HOW to walk nice once we can start walks again! (Had THR)! Good luck!


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## Chaya (Aug 18, 2012)

UPDATE: It looks like I started weaning the treats too early. Today, during our long midday walk, I brought A TON of food with me, and would treat her by my leg every 5 or 6 steps - more often if I sensed that she is getting distracted as we approached the park. It worked great, and she was a ALOT more focused and willing to stay by me. Looks like we're going to have to postpone her slim-down diet for a while:doh:


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

Chaya said:


> UPDATE: It looks like I started weaning the treats too early. Today, during our long midday walk, I brought A TON of food with me, and would treat her by my leg every 5 or 6 steps - more often if I sensed that she is getting distracted as we approached the park. It worked great, and she was a ALOT more focused and willing to stay by me. Looks like we're going to have to postpone her slim-down diet for a while:doh:


Yeah! Glad to hear it worked!


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## Nomes (Nov 7, 2011)

Chaya said:


> We may have to resort to going back to class...maybe a quick private session or two before our new puppy arrives. Is it mean to make her heel the whole walk? I want her to be able to sniff around and enjoy herself, but just not feel like she has to strain and pull to get everywhere.


i'm glad you have a class or two under your belt! Heeling should be fun for your dog. (And you! ) There should be lots of praise and breaks, recalls, petting time, sits, and stays put in there. Make it fun! be enthusiastic! if she knows how to heel, give it a try! maybe only heel for a little bit of your walk. When she stays by your side on a loose leash for just a few steps (or more, depending on how bad of a puller she is) reward her with a recall and some petting, or some sniffing time, or end the heeling and give her a chuckit. something you can make fun and rewarding.
I sympathize with you when you said it's hard to stay positive and not get frustrated! Casey was such a crazy dog before we started training...he'd get the zoomies on every single walk :doh: It was a nightmare! i finally realized he was reacting to my tension and frustration...when i let it go and looked at the big picture (we're taking a walk to have FUN, not to get angry) and was positive and reacted _calmly_ when he misbehaved, he shaped up quite a bit. Sure, he wasn't perfect, but when i could be calm, he had an easier time settling down too. 
It's tough! it's way easier to say it than to do it...you can do it though! If she isn't perfect on her walks, accept it until you can do something about it. whether that's classes, or a private instructor, or whatever. Stay positive and find a way to make heeling and walks fun for her! that's what dogs are all about, having fun! 

ok, sorry for the small novel...this subject is very near and dear to my heart, having just gone through it with Casey :


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## Nomes (Nov 7, 2011)

Chaya said:


> UPDATE: It looks like I started weaning the treats too early. Today, during our long midday walk, I brought A TON of food with me, and would treat her by my leg every 5 or 6 steps - more often if I sensed that she is getting distracted as we approached the park. It worked great, and she was a ALOT more focused and willing to stay by me. Looks like we're going to have to postpone her slim-down diet for a while:doh:


Yay! i'm glad you found something that works!


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## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

Chaya said:


> Yes, last year we bought a prong collar after reading many threads on this forum about good results, but she ended up just pulling until she felt a pain (and she really doesn't mind a good amount of pain), and kept on walking at that tension level. So in the end, she still pulled, and I was scared to give any corrections because of my fear that any pressure on my end + her self inflicted pressure will damage her neck. It turn out that whether she's on a prong or a regular collar, she's pulling pretty much the same amount, so we decided to ditch the prong. I made sure that it was fitted correctly, nice and high on her neck, and tried to give corrections that were quick and to the point. Didn't bother her at all.


Prongs don't dig into their neck but give a hug. One thing I like about them is no matter how hard someone pulls they can not close in on them. I really never seen anyone who used it properly have to pull to hard or the dog pull them. The biggest problem with prong collars is many dog owners don't know how to put them on, how to size them or how to have their dog wear them. While many don't like the looks of them the fact is they are far more humane than many other collars. Chokers do what they are named and a buckle or flat collar at a pull can do lots of damage. Pulling is also dangerous for you. You said you had it high on the neck but it may not have been tight enough. This is a big issue for many who don't know how to fit them. When a prong is loose it most likely will not help with pulling and it will cause pain. These collars are fitted snug. Remember the prong doesn't close in on them to tight. You also want to make sure you have the correct size prongs as to wide or narrow can make a difference. The prong is only a tool to help you teach her to not pull. Along with the proper collar I would recommend finding a good trainer who can help you use the tools to teach her to walk nice.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

This is a new method that I've been introduced to in the obedience class I'm taking with my little dog right now. I had never seen this one before, just different approach but it might be helpful.

Polite Leash Walking Part 1 of 3





 
Polite Leash Walking Part 2 of 3




 
Poliet Leash Walking Part 3 of 3


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## Chaya (Aug 18, 2012)

Thanks Mylissyk! I found that video to be a little bit of a miracle, but haven't really tried it with Chaya. Update on her progress: she's walking A LOT better after me being consistent about bringing her back and treating every time she pulls. Now, we're working on sustaining the position without a formal command, and even when I "free" her, she walks pretty well and is quick to return to my side at my signal.


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## quilter (Sep 12, 2011)

Just last night, I was texting my husband from the park that I had the worst dog in the world.  Of course, my husband pointed out that if he were actually the worst, then I wouldn't have been able to send a text. And at the moment I was texting, a woman with a large, old golden walked by us about 15 feet away and that dog nearly dragged that woman to the ground trying to get to us. Meanwhile, Casper lazed at my side while I sent the text.  Then we started walking again. Ugh. It's the generalization thing. He can be a prince on the sidewalks near home, but otherwise it's a gamble. Which I usually lose. By the time we finally got back to the car, we were both exhausted, a poorly-executed training session gone on way too long. 

Anyways, I did have a point to make. We just started a new dog class (would this be our fifth time through beginners?). The expectation after six weeks is loose-lead walking with a treat every five steps. So, yes, lots of treats. And it turned out that I needed treats for the walk that were better than treats I use in dog class. Well, at least I know for next time.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I think if I were having that much trouble getting a loose leash walk from my dog, especially if it was specific to one time or place, I would train a very formal heel and use it for those situations. For Chaya, she has plenty of free time to sniff and do her stuff it just seems she is unable to control her impulses in this situation. Treat the walk to the fun thing as your time to practice a pretty heel with attention. It doesn't have to be a punishment or a boring thing, make it fun for both of you, prance, go slow, go fast, do a quick stop, start at a run. Keep it unpredictable and set her and yourself up for success. Everyone comes out happy!


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## newport (Aug 8, 2011)

*Ms*

Lola is about 2 1/2 now and still on the leash she pulls enough to hamper her breathing..... which worries me. I bought a very sturdy well made harness and now walking her is effortless. She does not pull like she did with the collar and leash. It makes going on a walk enjoyable.


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