# new to forum, questions about pedigree and breeding



## mary624 (Jul 11, 2009)

This is Toby. He is 3 years old. His sire is Rufus Junior of Camelot(SN67876603), his dam is Stop light of Florence(SR11016908). 
I WOULD like to stud him out because he is an extraordinarily 
pretty dog, I would hate for his line to end, but I do not know 
enough about his breeder (Art Inabinet), and any issues with 
his dogs, if any. From what I know, he is no longer breeding 
Goldens. I worry about cancer. Disposition wise and physically 
he seems perfect. Toby is a REALLY pretty dog. He runs like the 
wind, he is 95 pounds, sweet tempered and intelligent, 
totally gentle with children and cats. 

Has anyone ever heard of Rufus Junior or Stop light?

How would I begin to stud Toby out, would this change 
his disposition, which is really wonderful and sweet, what 
would I need to do to start this?
I'm in Florida BTW. I will post more pictures in a few days.
Thanks!
mary


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Hi Mary and welcome to the forum!
If you seriously plan to stud your dog out, there are quite a few steps you'll want to take!
First, get all 5 health clearances done on him. Hips, elbows, thryoid, heart and eyes HAVE TO BE done before you even think about using your dog for a stud dog. Also check up at least 5 generations in his pedigree (you can check on the OFA website, www.offa.org) to be sure that ALL of his ancestors for at least 5 generations have the proper health clearances done.
Second, get him evaluated by unbiased people in terms of his representation of the golden breed from a conformation point of view. Based on his weight, I'd already have some serious concerns that he's either excessively tall, or hopefully just overweight. This means that you would need to at the very least get a CCA (certification of conformation assessment, issued by the golden retriever club of America) which involves attending a formal event in which 3 evaluators will score your dog, or preferably get a full championship on him in the show ring.
You'll probably also want to get some working titles on him to make him attractive to the owners of potential females of quality. You could get obedience, agility, tracking, or field titles, whichever you find the most fun to do with your dog. 
Finally, you'll want to research the female carefully to be sure that she has all of the above requirements as well, and then run a genetic profile on the two of them to be sure that they are genetically compatible.
Good luck, this forum is a great source of information and I'm sure others will have opinions and help to offer as well.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Having a stud dog is a big commitment and you must make sure that if you breed him that he will be contributing to the quality of the breed. Have you done any clearances to see if he is even eligible healthwise? Is he structurally sound? Stud dogs, by nature, ought to be pretty da** close to perfect!


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## mary624 (Jul 11, 2009)

*thank you!*

Hi Golden Sale,

I have not done all of what you have said since I am totally new at this...totally, and if I do do this thing, I do not want to go about it the wrong way, and if it's even feasible for one thing.
I just know several people have remarked about how beautiful he is etc...I'm simply making inquiries.
He is healthy, though the Vet said he COULD stand to loose about 5 or 6 pounds, I've been taking him out for long walks, which he of course, loves. He IS a large Golden none the less.

This is his entire pedigree:

http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=342887

Mary


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I do not see any listings with the OFA website for either of the parents. I would contact your dogs breeder and see if they have any clearances.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

mary624 said:


> Hi Golden Sale,
> 
> I have not done all of what you have said since I am totally new at this...totally, and if I do do this thing, I do not want to go about it the wrong way, and if it's even feasible for one thing.
> I just know several people have remarked about how beautiful he is etc...I'm simply making inquiries.
> ...


Understood  If your dog doesn't have a history of health clearances (hips, heart, eyes, elbows) in his pedigree than I would suggest that you don't breed him. If you have your heart set on it, perhaps research and get a dog from lines that our checked out, get some titles like Hotel4Dogs suggested, and then go the stud dog route. You could learn a lot and have fun, if it is something you are interested in!

Contact your dog's breeder and enquire about the health and temperament in his lines though, to be sure. Getting a conformation certificate like Hotel4Dogs suggested is great!


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Hi and welcome to the forum. Toby sure is a handsome boy. But as to using him at stud you will have a lot of work in front of you. Read hotel4dogs reply about clearances. This is just the beginning. At 95 lbs. he is 20 lbs. out of the weight for the "Standard" ( http://www.grca.org/history_breed/breed_standard.html ).
You will need to also have him evaluated either by showing him in the "Conformation" ring or as suggested entered in a Certificate of Conformation Assessment ( http://www.grca.org/events/cca/cca_what.html ).
Then after all this if it is still a viable choice to breed your boy the hard part comes. Finding someone who has a bitch who believes that breeding to your dog will be the best match for their dog.
When you purchased Toby, was he sold on limited or full registration? If you are not sure look at the registration from the AKC, if it says Limited on it, then it is limited which means his ppups can not be registered with the AKC.


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## mary624 (Jul 11, 2009)

*It's not limited*

I looked on his certificate and it is not limited.
Is there a way to look dogs up with the AKC?
Do they have stud records online?
As far as Toby's weight, he is overweight...my vet said about 10/15 pounds, so he is getting more walks, we could both stand to loose weight.
But she said his hips look perfect without any x-rays, they felt fine to her.
He runs very fast, but he still is very young so....
anyway..you have all given me a lot of food for thought, I thank you very much.
;p

Thanks.
mary


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

mary624 said:


> I looked on his certificate and it is not limited.
> Is there a way to look dogs up with the AKC?
> Do they have stud records online?
> As far as Toby's weight, he is overweight...my vet said about 10/15 pounds, so he is getting more walks, we could both stand to loose weight.
> ...


Well, I am glad you are checking things out. :wave: Be careful though, don't base his hips on what the vet says. Many a dog may look fine, but when x-rayed, it is a wonder they aren't in severe pain because of the conditions of their hips. Make sure you x-ray them if you decide to move forward!


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

Hi Mary, and welcome to the forum!

Your boy is very handsome! There are many here, including myself, that are just gaga over Red Goldens 

I have a pretty big concern, and it really doesn't have anything to do with your dog really, but it's family history.

I've looked at both the Sire and Dam sides, and I did not see a single showing of any kind. Not even one.

Does that mean your guy would not make a good Pop? Not in the least. But assuming that you would only want to breed him with the highest quality female, which would have several generations of awards, you would be at a serious disadvantage.

Any high-quality breeder with a female they want to breed will look under your dogs family tree with a Microscope. Indeed, many breeders will take a year to choose just the right match. Stud fee's can run $1000 to thousands depending on the Sire, and there has to be a proven track record before any serious breeder concerned with the improvement of the breed will consider a Stud.

Like everyone else said, you 'll need to make sure all 5 clearances are done (which can be quite expensive if done by the proper professionals).

I also think that, for you to have any chance of attracting quality breeders that would want his services, he is going to need to do some serious show time and obtain his CH status. There's not enough in his pedigree line to back him up, and he's all on his own in this regard.

I felt the same as you about my boy Comet (in Avatar). He was a beautiful Red/Dark Gold boy and was absolutely healthy and trouble-free until he passed this January at 12 y/o from Cancer. When I looked into what it REALLY took to attract a quality female to breed him to I decided to back off (hard as it was). I never did neuter him just in case, but with the cost of the certs and the show time that would be required, I simply didn't have the time to invest to do it properly, so I didn't.

Breeding is a lifestyle that takes a level of dedication few truly have the time for, and I tip my hat to those that do it right


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## esSJay (Apr 13, 2009)

mary624 said:


> I just know several people have remarked about how beautiful he is etc...I'm simply making inquiries.
> He is healthy, though the Vet said he COULD stand to loose about 5 or 6 pounds, I've been taking him out for long walks, which he of course, loves.





mary624 said:


> I looked on his certificate and it is not limited.
> As far as Toby's weight, he is overweight...my vet said about 10/15 pounds, so he is getting more walks, we could both stand to loose weight.
> But she said his hips look perfect without any x-rays, they felt fine to her.
> He runs very fast, but he still is very young so....


Hi Mary! Welcome to the forum! As other posters have mentioned, it is really important to be sure of the ancestors' health history before beginning to stud out your beautiful dog. As gorgeous as he is, those health clearances (including hip x-rays, not just looking/feeling) are *SO* important, and it's only fair for all of the innocent little puppies that will be brought into the world!

Personally if I was in your situation, I would use GoldenSail's advice to pass on studding your one-of-a-kind Toby, and research/get another dog that comes from great lines where their pedigree is full of clearances and some titles if you are still interested in breeding.

Good luck and all the best!


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