# Is it normal for a breeder to do this?



## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

This is my first time using a breeder, but my breeder hasn't requested a deposit at all and I'm scheduled to see and interact with the puppies at the 4 week mark. 

On one hand it makes sense to limit exposure to the puppies cause at 0-3 weeks they are super susceptible to germs, etc. But I don't get not allowing you to meet the breeder before handing over a deposit. Is it refundable? I'm trying to check their page out right now, but it might be a bit long for me to gather what i find.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

So I read their website. Have you already completed the essay question and been invited to be on the wait list for a specific litter? 

Looks like they currently have 3 litters on the ground. 
Nugget x Callie
Nugget x Sierra
Rocket x Dory

I've found info on Nugget, Callie, and Rocket... but not Sierra or Dory. Do you have registered names for them? 

Nugget - up to date on core 4 clearances. 
https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1742275

Rocket - up to date on core 4 clearances.
https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1491729

Callie - Eyes are outdated. And have notes re: results. I recommend you check with the breeder to make sure her eyes are updated (must be done within the past 12 months) and get clarification on the results. 
https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1769085 

Overall, I get the *sense* that this is a reputable breeder whose looking out for their litters. If the deposit is non-refundable, I, personally, might pass on it. I can't afford to lose $1250 on a litter if I don't like what I see. 

Maybe the breeder will be open to a meet-n-greet away from her home with the sire? Or alone? That way you can talk and get a feel for them and see if this is a relationship (for the rest of your dog's life) you're comfortable with.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

I think a $1,250 deposit is just crazy. Asking for references might be a little off putting, but the rest should be normal. The breeder should want to meet you in person and at least let you meet the adult dogs they have that aren't nursing puppies. Puppies still need socialization and should meet more than just the breeder before 8 weeks


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## hpopnecker (Jun 21, 2018)

I asked about the deposit and unfortunately it is not refundable. I also asked to meet the breeder and the parents/adult dogs in advance but she has not agreed.


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## hpopnecker (Jun 21, 2018)

Yes, I submitted the essay which was approved and she told me I would get an invitation for a meet and greet. However, you have to pay the deposit before you are allowed to see the puppies at the meet and greet. My concern is paying this non-refundable deposit without having met her or the adult dogs/parents of the puppies.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I don't have 'guests' who are coming to meet dam of the litter (and I only once in a blue moon breed to one of my boys so stud dog intro is out of the question) for the same reasons this breeder states..plus I really don't want people knowing where I live until it is deep into puppy time, breeders are killed and breeders have litters stolen. BUT I also have a refundable deposit of $400- not half the price of the puppy, non-refundable.. and unless it is Cali who is the dam (and her eyes are 2 years out of date) then I wouldn't even entertain it further. I don't think the deposit is reasonable at all. Visiting after puppies are 5 weeks old or so is perfectly normal, and talking on the phone is normal too before you are approved for a puppy.. she ought to want to be sure you guys are a good fit as much as you want to be sure you're a good fit. References- I am happy to give those, if someone asks for them and I have a good feel at that point, I will give them all the references they want. 
If you can come up with the registered names for the two girls we can't ID just post them and someone will look them up for clearances. And on Cali's eyes, at least get a copy of her eye exam... and check w someone as to whether or not the conditions listed are breeders options conditions (her PPM is a B/O)


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

My breeder did not require a deposit and really it was more me insisting I wanted to send one when the puppies were a few weeks old. It was also maybe $500 so more like a fourth than half. She was 3 hours away so I did not go see her but she had all clearances and good recommendation on the forum.


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## Rambo's mom (Apr 30, 2016)

This is the breeder of my Rambo. She and her husband both were sticklers about germs. At the meet and greet you will get to meet the parents, and spend as much time as you like with the puppies. 

Ellen and her husband are serious about making sure the puppies go to good homes. They weren't shy about refunding a couple their money the day before they were to pick it up because of them balking about a requirement in the the contract. 

I wrote a check for the deposit but they required cash on go home day. They have been burned before and play it safe.
If you are looking for an outgoing type of breeder, Ellen is not that. She is friendly and patient but also no nonsense. She takes the breeding very seriously. 

As far as the dogs, Rambo is the sweetest, healthiest, loving dog. We love him beyond words. Oh, and they do pick the dog for you. We laugh because my husband and I had him down as our last choice. We are so glad she picked!

If I were ever thinking about getting a second dog I wouldn't hesitate to go with them again.
I hope this answers some of your concerns.
Good luck.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Prism Goldens said:


> ...breeders are killed and breeders have litters stolen. BUT I also have a refundable deposit of $400- not half the price of the puppy, non-refundable...


OMG! I never knew that! I'm super paranoid that someone will steal my puppy (but I was the same paranoid when I got Bear) but I didn't ever think someone would like steal a whole litter. How scary! 

Back to OP - find out which litter you're being considered for. Get the registered names of the dams and ask for copies of the health clearances.
ANY breeder would be 100% ok with this information. My puppy's dam's eyes were outdated before the breeding took place and I asked my breeder about it and she send me the clearance form and told me that it was already sent to OFA but they might be slow on uploading it. Sure enough, the eyes are up to date on OFA now. 

Also, a breeder will want to discuss her breeding at length (imo). I've gone over the dam and sire for my puppy with my breeder for HOURS. We've discussed temperament, strengths, weaknesses, hopes on how this litter will improve the breed, etc. My hopes and plans for the puppy, etc. And I get daily photos/video to keep me in the loop. Maybe I'm taking this for granted and my breeder is just going above and beyond, but I honestly thought this was how it's supposed to go.


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## Piper_the_goldenpuppy (Aug 26, 2016)

So, first and foremost, I would want to know that clearances were in order for the sire and dam of the litter in question, and I wouldn't pay for a dog at that price without them. A breeder should be able to provide the registered name of the dog, so you can confirm that clearances are in order, and if something isn't yet uploaded to OFA, I'd want those when I picked up the puppy. Putting that much down if I couldn't verify clearances would make me nervous. 

As for the deposit itself, it seems rather high if its non-refundable. Personally, I'd be nervous about putting that much down on a puppy unless I could confirm all clearances were in order, and I'd have to really want that dog. Meaning clearances were uploaded into OFA (or if the breeder was comfortable sending me copies--some breeders don't on the things not yet uploaded until you pick up the dog because that information can get stolen and used inappropriately). If I didn't know the breeder I probably wouldn't. I'd want to know a lot about the breeding, why the pair was chosen, what the goals of the breeding were, temperament etc, and a lot about the breeder. But, if it was truly the right fit, the right breeding, and a breeder who I absolutely knew I wanted to work with, and clearances and everything were in order, then I probably would. 

I'd personally like to be able to meet at least one of the parents ahead of time, but then, I didn't with my current dog Piper, because she sort of fell into my lap last minute when my breeder thought she'd be a better fit for me due to her highly sensitive nature. Not the right fit for a busy family of 6 who had never had a dog before. But then, I already knew the breeder because my parents had gotten a dog there, so not only had I seen a puppy (my parents, who grew into a beautiful dog), but I'd also met some of my breeder's other dogs several years back when my parents got their dog. I hadn't even met Piper before I came to pick her up! She was picked out for me. Obviously, if I didn't have a good feel, I wouldn't have taken her home. It worked out very well for me, because my breeder knew what I was looking for, knew about the breeding, and knew Piper as a puppy, and she's become my best companion. It felt like a bit of a gamble at the time, but it worked out very well.

And along those lines, I respect breeders wanting to protect their adults and puppies, and also themselves. Obviously, puppy buyers have been burned in the past, but so have breeders. Its a sad fact of the world. So maybe there's a reason this breeder requires such a high deposit in the first place--it certainly will weed out people who aren't serious. One of the issues with having strangers in the home is they can unwittingly bring in things like parvo. Doesn't necessarily cause an issue or symptoms in adult dogs but can be fatal to puppies. I've seen a dog with parvo before--so I can understand why a breeder would be cautious introducing strangers to a pregnant mama or a baby litter, or even another dog on the premises. 

One of the benefits to those long (and frustrating) waiting lists, is it does give you some time to get to know the breeder, potentially meet them and their dogs at shows, in a setting that is safe for everyone, or meet other offspring.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

*Assorted thoughts*.... 

*$1200 deposit (half the $2500 puppy price) due up front*: I think this is relatively normal/and or reasonable. It just seems really crazy because the pup is so expensive! Half the puppy cost is what a lot of us have paid full price for a puppy last time. 

*Cost of the pup*: Unfortunately, prices will keep going up and stabilizing at higher $ amounts BECAUSE people keep paying the higher prices. A few years ago, a breeder was encouraged to raise her prices to $2000 because her pups, in her opinion, were worth almost $1000 more than the average pups elsewhere. And anyone who asked question about paying such a high cost for a perhaps one-dimensional dog was shamed for asking. As well, some people seem to "hide" prices and carry on about how they don't like that price is the first thing people ask about. If you ask, that gives them a reason to burn your application (LOL). Small rant here because I don't want to wake up some day and feel like I'm making a choice between a car and a puppy (!), but bottom line, price does not mean anything as far as whether your breeder is reputable or not. Everyone is trying to make money to put back into their bank accounts to break even after related expenses or future expenses. 

*Deposit to be made PRIOR to any formal interview in person with the breeder*: Yeah. This is not proper, in my opinion. I would NEVER just put money down prior to an in-person chit-chat. The breeder is somebody you will have to rely on for guidance and support for the next 10-12 years of your dog's life and you want to deal with nice decent people who aren't hiding their flaws behind computers. 

*Deposit is completely nonrefundable (!) *: Yikes. This is something that I don't think is right. My oldest boy, I paid half up front at the time we met with the breeder and wanted to be on a list for puppies in a litter. So full price back then was $900. Half of that was $450. And then $250 of that was non-refundable. To me, this is completely fair. Because you never know what might happen. Most people typically are RELIEVED to have their name on a litter and be guaranteed a puppy, but I know a lot of breeders including close friends who have had people suddenly have something happen in 2-3 months waiting for a puppy which caused them to change their minds about getting a puppy. 

Because of the high cost of the pup, you are probably looking at $400-600 being nonrefundable (to ensure people are making a commitment to a litter and won't leave the breeder in a lurch at 8-9 weeks when the pup is supposed to go home), but that's still better than the whole $1200.

When we purchased a $1500 rough collie puppy last year - that was a $500 deposit, of which about $300 was nonrefundable. 

*Deposit to be made prior to seeing any of the adult dogs in person*: I agree with Robin (Prism) that you might not be able to see all adult dogs in person anyway. With the mom, the breeder might not want her exposed to outside germs very early. The puppy daddy might be an outside dog (I doubt that's the case with this breeder since you have the same stud dog used for more than one bitch!), but other places - yeah, you might not have much opportunity to see the dad. 

With my youngest boy (Bertie), the dad was over in Ontario with his owner. In fact, by the time I got to go visit the breeder and view the puppies, they were fresh from a trip out to the stud dog owner where she was given a choice to pick a dog from the litter. 

And then Bertie's mom was on site, but out with the galloping herd since she wasn't kept with the puppies (they were almost 10 weeks old).

*Deposit to be made prior to viewing the puppies*: Yeah, this is relatively normal - especially with breeders taking deposits before the pups are born and or before they get through the first 2-3 weeks. 

*Deposit to be made prior to viewing the breeder's home/setup*: I think this is unfortunately pretty normal. Reason why is some people have had break-ins and full litters stolen. There's also been A/R peeps who want to view kennels and homes to find problems. It's ended up with some breeders being very protective of their homes and privacy. And of course the puppies.

*No online presence of the breeder*: Pretty normal. Actually, some of the most active breeders as far as having big glossy websites and very active (hyperactive) facebook pages are startups or people putting all their money into advertising vs putting it back into the dogs. 
*
Breeder quick to turn you away after your questions*: Again, pretty normal and not always because they have something to hide and don't want pressing questions. Some of these breeders have had to deal with difficult people in the past.



For whatever it's worth, I do think that very big name breeders are the most difficult to get a puppy from. The bigger they are, the longer their waiting lists, and sometimes the more liberty they have to cull unnecessary applicants. And they could literally produce a litter of 6-10 puppies and decide to place all those puppies into show or working homes. And they can do that because the quality of a litter might be high enough. But it also means that your regular pet homes have no chance at getting a puppy from a breeder like that. 

I'm listing all that for the reason that I think those big name breeders are a dream to buy from since even when they cut corners, you can still trust the quality of what they breed and the breeders themselves are big enough to stand behind what they produce. There's less stress and worry about buying a puppy and trying to understand clearances and being wary about what people were thinking when they put dogs together for a breeding. 

Asking about breeders online, there's so much confusion about what's OK or not OK. And it creates second guessing if one or both parents aren't titled. Or if the breeders are homebodies who aren't part of the local conformation clubs and don't know very much about show goldens or other stuff. 

One of the nicest local breeders I know is somebody who has loaded up on rally titles and had put CD's on her dogs, and it just starting to get into higher level obedience. Her dogs are more field/obedience type and she's small fry. But her dogs are bomb proof and there's nothing "wrong" with them. And she also does go out of her way to select studs from bigger breeders (Wynwood, for example). And she doesn't have any websites, doesn't breed all the time. She's just a very nice and sweet person. She does all the clearances and does what makes her happy with her dogs.


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## daisy1234 (Jun 17, 2018)

I have purchased 2 dogs from breeders. Both were very friendly, honest and wanted the best for their pups. They were open about where and how they raised their pups. I think she has a lot of pups and I would be concerned about how she is caring for all of them at the same time. I would not put that much down. With my Beagle I had to put $100 which depending on order received guaranteed me to pick my pup. With my Golden about 15 years ago I didn't have to put anything down and just drove out to pick our pup. I would look around for a different breeder even if you have to drive a bit I think it would be worth it. Do you have any Golden Retriever Rescues near you? I just luckily recently got a pup from one. She is super sweet. Good luck to you in your search! Be careful!


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## mommyofwaffles4 (May 26, 2017)

hpopnecker said:


> I have been looking for a puppy and recently contacted a golden retriever breeder ( Goldenwind Golden Retriever in Wylie, Texas) which is close to where I live. I've had dogs in the past but this is the first time I am trying to get a puppy from hopefully what is a reputable breeder. The breeder has asked for a deposit of $1250 which is half the total price of the puppy. I was okay with the deposit but what I am concerned about if what happened next. I e-mailed the breeder and asked if I could get a couple of references, how the deposit is made (cash, check credit card) and if I could meet the breeder and her dogs (one or both of the parents of the current litter) BEFORE I made the deposit and this was her response where she didn't really answer my questions: "I'm sorry, but as you read on the Puppies page of our website, that is not 'our' process as we need to protect the puppies and cannot have people coming to visit to just "look" as they are not fully vested in the safety and wellbeing of the puppies. Our process is why so many families have chosen us as their breeders as our #1 priority is the safety of the puppies. If you don't have the confidence in us as breeders with all the information we have posted on both our website and Facebook page, along with our 20 years of experience, then we are not the right breeders for you."
> 
> Were my questions unreasonable? I didn't ask to meet the puppies. I just asked to meet the parents and her before I pay the deposit. I also didn't get a response as to how the deposit is made and I can't find any reviews of this breeder on the Facebook page or the website. In this age where there are so many puppy scams and fake websites, I thought my questions were valid questions. Are they not?


The deposit seems awfully high!You should be able to see the parents and the pups when it is safe to do so. I do not claim to be an expert, but I would look elsewhere.
:surprise:


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## hpopnecker (Jun 21, 2018)

Megora said:


> *Assorted thoughts*....
> 
> *$1200 deposit (half the $2500 puppy price) due up front*: I think this is relatively normal/and or reasonable. It just seems really crazy because the pup is so expensive! Half the puppy cost is what a lot of us have paid full price for a puppy last time.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much for the assorted thoughts. This was extremely helpful to me. Based on all the feedback I received on this forum, I have decided to move on and keep looking for another reputable breeder. It has been a frustrating and emotional process but I am willing to wait as long as needed to find the right breeder and puppy.


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## laurenC (Sep 20, 2017)

If youre in texas one of my breeders bitches just came into season. None of that craziness... there are other options is all i am saying. that is a very steep price for outdated clearances!


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## ShashaCruz (Apr 22, 2017)

Your breeder appears unprofessional and unreasonable by his response to your request.


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## ShashaCruz (Apr 22, 2017)

Someone clapped back misinformation I was offering stud service here which is ridiculous. Unsure rationale for this personal attack.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

ShashaCruz said:


> Someone clapped back misinformation I was offering stud service here which is ridiculous. Unsure rationale for this personal attack.


You posted that you "only let my stud breed pedigreed bitches over one year old under eight and breeding must be accomplished at my home between 7pm to 11pm"

Which you must know is completely and totally against the Code of Ethics.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Prism Goldens said:


> You posted that you "only let my stud breed pedigreed bitches over one year old under eight and breeding must be accomplished at my home between 7pm to 11pm"
> 
> Which you must know is completely and totally against the Code of Ethics.


This person is in Taiwan - which pretty much explains many of their posts....


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## SBaker (Jan 15, 2018)

I would not leave a deposit (esp. a non refundable one of that amount!) without first meeting the breeder, at least one parent and seeing their facilities. I know every breeder is different, but those are my ground rules. I don't care if they're puppies of a Westminster winner, if I can't see & meet it's a no go for me.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Megora said:


> This person is in Taiwan - which pretty much explains many of their posts....


How did you find this? I assumed it was an offshore person just based on how off the wall her posts have been. Bad advice on every occasion. 
I hope no one takes her advice to heart as being from the GRF...


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Prism Goldens said:


> How did you find this? I assumed it was an offshore person just based on how off the wall her posts have been. Bad advice on every occasion.
> I hope no one takes her advice to heart as being from the GRF...


One of the posts yesterday on a thread I was subscribed to.

Kinda figured - outside of US and western type countries, view on dogs, dog ownership, dog breeding etc.... is vastly different.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Megora said:


> One of the posts yesterday on a thread I was subscribed to.
> 
> Kinda figured - outside of US and western type countries, view on dogs, dog ownership, dog breeding etc.... is vastly different.



Personally, I think the person is a troll, with sadly little else in her life to occupy her time. She is posting to get a rise out of people. Just ignore her - she'll go away.


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## Hilabeans (Feb 27, 2018)

Sweet Girl said:


> Personally, I think the person is a troll, with sadly little else in her life to occupy her time. She is posting to get a rise out of people. Just ignore her - she'll go away.


Yep, I noticed some weird posts last week when she first joined. I reported at least one of them for trolling. :gotme:


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

Hilabeans said:


> Yep, I noticed some weird posts last week when she first joined. I reported at least one of them for trolling. :gotme:


The thing is, she joined in April 2017, over a year ago, but is just now posting very bizarre posts. Referring to her animals as beasts. It does feel very "troll-ish".


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## ShashaCruz (Apr 22, 2017)

so many haters must be predominantly usa participants


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Yes, you are correct, the forum is North American based with heavy American participation. Most people in other countries pick up on that quite quickly since it is a .com and not a .tw or a .uk, or a .au for example. 

I am sure the view of animals and ownership in general are quite different where you live. Quite a bit of what you post is shocking to a culture in North America where dogs seem to be valued much more highly and treated often times as a family member. Your descriptions are very off putting for many since they are so different from the treatment of dogs where we live. It seems that quite a few feel you are aware that your posts are disturbing and full of suggestions that are detrimental to the standards of animal care here. Perhaps you are aware and trolling, perhaps not. Hopefully you can find areas of the forum you can participate in that won’t make you feel like you have to post “clap back”, “haters” remarks or thinly veiled insults to a whole country of people.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Let's try to get this thread back on topic to the OP's original question which is shown below. 


If you are going to comment in this thread regarding the OP's question, please keep the Forum Rules in mind and keep your comments within the guidelines of these Rules or this thread may be closed due to Rule Violations. 

https://www.goldenretrieverforum.co...6-grf-board-rules-registration-agreement.html






hpopnecker said:


> I have been looking for a puppy and recently contacted a golden retriever breeder ( Goldenwind Golden Retriever in Wylie, Texas) which is close to where I live. I've had dogs in the past but this is the first time I am trying to get a puppy from hopefully what is a reputable breeder. The breeder has asked for a deposit of $1250 which is half the total price of the puppy. I was okay with the deposit but what I am concerned about if what happened next. I e-mailed the breeder and asked if I could get a couple of references, how the deposit is made (cash, check credit card) and if I could meet the breeder and her dogs (one or both of the parents of the current litter) BEFORE I made the deposit and this was her response where she didn't really answer my questions: "I'm sorry, but as you read on the Puppies page of our website, that is not 'our' process as we need to protect the puppies and cannot have people coming to visit to just "look" as they are not fully vested in the safety and wellbeing of the puppies. Our process is why so many families have chosen us as their breeders as our #1 priority is the safety of the puppies. If you don't have the confidence in us as breeders with all the information we have posted on both our website and Facebook page, along with our 20 years of experience, then we are not the right breeders for you."
> 
> Were my questions unreasonable? I didn't ask to meet the puppies. I just asked to meet the parents and her before I pay the deposit. I also didn't get a response as to how the deposit is made and I can't find any reviews of this breeder on the Facebook page or the website. In this age where there are so many puppy scams and fake websites, I thought my questions were valid questions. Are they not?


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## ShashaCruz (Apr 22, 2017)

. com is not north american unique at all


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## Daisy Gold (Dec 19, 2018)

I hope you didn't get a puppy from them. I am a breeder and ask 1/3 for deposit. They can come see my facility, meet parents and other dogs I have. They ask as many questions as they want. The deposit is refundable if I cannot give them the sex they wanted. They can also wait until the next litter if they choose. 
DaisyGoldGoldens
Liz Barrows


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Daisy Gold said:


> I hope you didn't get a puppy from them. I am a breeder and ask 1/3 for deposit. They can come see my facility, meet parents and other dogs I have. They ask as many questions as they want. The deposit is refundable if I cannot give them the sex they wanted. They can also wait until the next litter if they choose.
> DaisyGoldGoldens
> Liz Barrows


Out of curiosity- what is a 'certified breeder' as it states you are on your website? who certifies you?


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