# Dichi litter - aggressive puppy?



## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Remember this pup is just a baby who has only been on earth a few weeks, an just underwent the loss of mom and littermates. This puppy is going to respond to what is rewarded, and gentle handling, and it likely to meet punishment with fear aggression. I wouldn't get overly hung up on the pup not wanting to please you as he is younger than your toddler. You have to build your relationship for that to happen. Pups DO bite a lot as that is how they have explored their world and communicated with littermates for 8 weeks. Imagine telling your toddler never to use her opposable thumb again? Be gentle and give alternatives to chewing on human skin very generously- give a xl Whimzee toothbrush chew to carry around etc. Some great books are The Puppy Primer by Patricia McConnell and BAT 2.0 by Grisha Stewart.


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## Larsbar79 (Mar 21, 2016)

I did what the breeders told me to do. They said hard and fast correction in the beginning since we need to tell the puppy that teeth on any part of us is not acceptable. 

Its gotten better but now there is this other factor of aggression. He does things for treats, but not to do them and get pets. I honestly don't want some dog that only comes to get affection or do something only for treats. I just feel as if I'm dog sitting someone else's dog. He is literally friendlier and more submissive to strangers we meet when we are out. What is that about? I don't understand.

I understand this is an adjustment for him, but its been almost 3 weeks. I keep reading about how loving and sweet everyone else's pups are. He has had nothing but love towards him and a clean, warm place to sleep etc....aside from the bite corrections. If he wasn't coming back at me biting a second time after corrections, or snarling when I try to take his collar off sometimes, I would chalk it up to him just being a puppy. I've just never met a puppy 7 weeks old or older that didn't seek human affection or that came back and bit like he does.

I don't see this problem as much with my husband (altho it still happens to him) ....so I don't know if its just me, but I WILL NOT be snarled at from my dog. Ever.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

As you're discovering, Golden pups aren't "gentle and fun". They're little sharks who communicate by mouthing and biting, especially in the early weeks.

Personally I would NOT use the "scruffing - dominant correction" technique on a young pup - or, indeed, on any dog. They only thing it's likely to achieve is to make your pup afraid of you - which won't help you build a relationship with him and might even cause him to retaliate from fear.

We currently have a very mouthy 15-week-old pup, and the thing that worked best for us, to help curb the nipping, was the crate. We gave him a 30-second time-out in his crate every time he bit too hard. At first we were putting him in his crate about 20 times per day, but he caught on very quickly. Also, when he was in my lap, I would let him mouth my hand, and would yelp and put him on the floor when he mouthed too hard. He quickly learned what was and wasn't acceptable. Now he's much more gentle, and even though he still has his sharp puppy teeth, he almost never hurts us when mouthing.

As for building a relationship, it takes time. My pup has joined our family after the early death (from cancer) of my "dog of a lifetime". It's very hard not to make comparisons, but it's totally unfair to expect the little guy to be the perfect dog from the start. We shape our dogs to become the companions we want, and we do that by training them. Have you tried teaching your pup some simple commands: sit, down, stand, stay, turn or spin, etc.? If you reward him for his successes (with food, toys, etc.), he'll soon come to enjoy being with you - and you with him. 

As for walking on leash, my pup wasn't keen at first, but underwent a magical transformation when I started carrying a cheese stick in my hand and handing out small pieces as rewards when he walked alongside me and didn't pull. Now he looks forward to being on leash. 

When our pup becomes over-excited (jumping up, etc.), I start a mini-training session (sequences of sit, down, stand, stay) to calm him down and make him focus. He's beginning to understand that good things happen when he goes to a human and sits down, instead of jumping up and pawing or mouthing them.

Pups take a lot of patience. I feel exhausted much of the time, but it's important to make sure your pup enjoys being with you, and you with him. It's a question of celebrating successes (e.g. exaggerated expressions of delight when he pees outside, or when he obeys a new command) and working patiently on all the rest.

If you're not already in a group puppy class with him, I'd strongly recommend it.

Best of luck, and I hope things work out for you.


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## Laurie (Sep 20, 2009)

I've had 5 goldens but my youngest, who is now almost 4 years old, was by far the worst puppy of them all and he came from a reputable breeder! He was a vicious biter, who no matter what we did, would always come back for more. I can't tell you how many pieces of clothing he put holes in. But, the one thing that we did was to never show anger or hostility at him, although there were days!!! When he got to be too much, we would gently take him to his x-pen for a time out. He also required a lot of stimulation (ie. training, exercise, etc.) so this is what we did to tire him out. 

Walks for a while were terrible...biting at the leash, jumping at our hands, throwing himself on the ground, etc. Classes were embarrassing...throwing tantrums, just being a plain brat! Seriously, I was beginning to think we got a puppy who was possessed by the devil!!! But, we persevered.

Fast forward to now.....he is an awesome boy! He is loving, gentle and very well trained. He is a pleasure to take anywhere with us. He can still have his moments of silliness but he's a dog and he's allowed to.

I second the above suggesting of getting him into classes; they are so beneficial to you and the puppy.

Puppies are exhausting and take a great amount of patience but in the end, they are so worth it. There is nothing greater than the love of a golden retriever. Hang in there, it gets so much better and you'll be glad you did!!


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

"They gave me the tool of scruffing- dominant correction "to show the pup who is boss" 

I'm working with a trainer, too, and she thinks that this pup is very sensitive to touch and gets overly stimulated. She thinks its possible that the pups were well taken care of but not handled quite enough with hands....?

If he wasn't coming back at me biting a second time after corrections, or snarling when I try to take his collar off sometimes, I would chalk it up to him just being a puppy."

Welcome to the forum. Some puppies need much more time to feel comfortable in their new home. 

All those picture you see of those sweet puppies and their owners or kids, well, sometimes it may take a few days up to a hundred pictures to get that special moment. And then it is gone until the next time. 

From your post it does sound as if your pup isn't comfortable with a lot of touching and tries to protect himself from it and to stop you from doing what you are doing to him. He is afraid and not trusting of your hands right now. Using dominate techniques may make it even worse. Those techniques can reinforce the pups belief that you shouldn't be trusted.
I think you are on the right track seeking a private with your trainer so that they can give you more guidance.

Some pups really need a lot of reinforcement for anything they do that is good. Since the pup really doesn't have a lot of play skills as yet and doesn't trust hands the best way for reinforcement is with good yummy treats and using their food. Using praise and petting will come in time when your pup is more comfortable with hands touching him. But each pup is an individual and they actually choose what reinforcement they like not us.

Raising a puppy is really hard work just like raising your children. 

It really sounds like a normal puppy. That doesn't mean that what the pup is doing is acceptable. you are right that you need your pup to learn manners but it starts with building that bond with lots of reinforcement for anything good the pup does.

If you read through the puppy threads you will find that many of the owners have had struggles at different times during that first year to 15 months.

Your trainer will be able to show you cute little games to make your pup feel more comfortable with you touching him. Thank you for seeing the trainer.

Some dogs do get over stimulated very fast and it takes time and training for them to learn self control. Babv gates, x-pens, and crates used to contain the pup so they can play by themselves and calm down using them just like we do cribs and playpens with our kids. Right now every time you ask the pup into a gated room, x-pen or crate the pup needs rewarded. At first you may start by luring/bribing which is having the goody already in before the pup. After about 5 to 10 times you then want the pup to go in and then give the pup the reward so it becomes reinforcement vs a bribe. 

Hand feeding some of the pups meals helps to let the pup know that your hands do good things. Using kongs and safe chew toys in the crate and/or x-pen will make those places a good place to be.

Don't forget the exercise, lots of free running around in the yard, learning to chase a toy, find it games etc to help wear out your little one. At first exercise or free play should be short times with lots of heart pumping fun. Then lots of naps in between.

Our view of those magical puppy days are very short moments and far between with lots of hard work, some disappointment because it isn't how we thought it would be.

Before you get frustrated or sad put the pup in his safe play area go have a cup of coffee/tea or a glass of wine and relax. It just takes time.


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## Larsbar79 (Mar 21, 2016)

My first instinct was to definitely not use any physical type of correction...ie...limp hand, yelping etc. I will mention that I am a dog groomer so I have encountered hundreds of dogs and have used different trchniques with all of them . 

Well, the gentle corrections of the biting wasn't working and it was just getting harder and harder. When I called Dichi they told me that I was letting the pup be the boss, so I needed to scruff him, etc. The trainer said the same, but to not scruff too much and just use the voice. Well it started out ok, except that he would come back and bite harder when we corrected him a lot of times. Its not 100% of the time, just some of the time. So maybe that is the fear coming out...? I dunno. This pup isn't afraid of any noise. The baby gate crashed and fell on him and he didn't even care. All of my other dogs would have at least ran away a little lol 

I taught him his name and sit, come and let's go when walking. I have used treats since the beginning! I am even the one who has the bully stick or other chewie during our lap time ( he only gets the chewie then) 

And yes, even treats when walking. But now he wont even walk without some sort of motivation of food. This seems odd. Shouldn't he be doing what I ask him, coax him to do and think he is getting food? He literally has to see the treat out in front of his nose before he walks a step on that leash. I try to treat randomly like the trainer said, but it doesnt seem to be working. We start puppy class on April 2. We will see how things go. I did not imagine a dog like this- not affectionate and could care les where his food comes from.


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## Larsbar79 (Mar 21, 2016)

Laurie said:


> I've had 5 goldens but my youngest, who is now almost 4 years old, was by far the worst puppy of them all and he came from a reputable breeder! He was a vicious biter, who no matter what we did, would always come back for more. I can't tell you how many pieces of clothing he put holes in. But, the one thing that we did was to never show anger or hostility at him, although there were days!!! When he got to be too much, we would gently take him to his x-pen for a time out. He also required a lot of stimulation (ie. training, exercise, etc.) so this is what we did to tire him out.
> 
> Walks for a while were terrible...biting at the leash, jumping at our hands, throwing himself on the ground, etc. Classes were embarrassing...throwing tantrums, just being a plain brat! Seriously, I was beginning to think we got a puppy who was possessed by the devil!!! But, we persevered.
> 
> ...



I hope I haven't ruined him. I just did what everyone told me. 

Your dog sounds like my pup! Ive connected with stranger's dogs better than this one.


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## Larsbar79 (Mar 21, 2016)

"""Some dogs do get over stimulated very fast and it takes time and training for them to learn self control. Babv gates, x-pens, and crates used to contain the pup so they can play by themselves and calm down using them just like we do cribs and playpens with our kids. Right now every time you ask the pup into a gated room, x-pen or crate the pup needs rewarded. At first you may start by luring/bribing which is having the goody already in before the pup. After about 5 to 10 times you then want the pup to go in and then give the pup the reward so it becomes reinforcement vs a bribe. 

Hand feeding some of the pups meals helps to let the pup know that your hands do good things. Using kongs and safe chew toys in the crate and/or x-pen will make those places a good place to be."""

Yep that's what I do! I also hand feed each meal part of the way.

Don't forget the exercise, lots of free running around in the yard, learning to chase a toy, find it games etc to help wear out your little one. At first exercise or free play should be short times with lots of heart pumping fun. Then lots of naps in between.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Take a deep breath. It'll be OK. Puppies act like this. One day you'll wake up and realize you have a dog you enjoy. Get the whole Disney movie, dogs-want-to-please-humans, Hallmark card version of the dog you thought you wanted, out of your head. It's a real animal, not a cartoon.

The group classes are a great idea. Plan to go to class every week for months and work with him every day on your homework.


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## Larsbar79 (Mar 21, 2016)

K9-Design said:


> Take a deep breath. It'll be OK. Puppies act like this. One day you'll wake up and realize you have a dog you enjoy. Get the whole Disney movie, dogs-want-to-please-humans, Hallmark card version of the dog you thought you wanted, out of your head. It's a real animal, not a cartoon.
> 
> The group classes are a great idea. Plan to go to class every week for months and work with him every day on your homework.


I'm just frustrated because I have had type of hallmark channel relationship with all of my past dogs (and even cats!).


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## Rkaymay (May 12, 2014)

My 2 y/o girl was a demon puppy. Exactly like you described. I swear, from the time she turned 8 weeks old until she was 16 weeks old, I couldn't hold her because she would bite constantly - and hard. It was miserable. I hated her for a while. I remember her calmly laying in my lap one night at 2 am when she was 4 months old, and I was afraid to move so I didn't disturb the moment. I learned that with her, she needed LOW stimulation. No tug, no high pitched praise. Lots of treats. Lots of impulse games. Fetch was good for her as her attention was on the ball, not me (though we had to keep games short). Eager to please, but clever. She needed activities that took a lot of thinking. And when she became bored, she started biting. And patience. So much patience. She was 6 months old before she started to mellow out. Now, at 2 years old, she's so calm. She still gets excited, but she found her off switch, and she's able to calm herself. She won't leave me alone. Even when our puppy wants to play, if I leave the room she's following me. Oh, and she adores my 4 y/o brother and is so, so gentle with him.

What kind of dogs did you have in the past? Goldens are another ball game entirely.


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## Larsbar79 (Mar 21, 2016)

So based on everyone's thoughts here, I will keep treats in my hand at all times and voice correct any biting followed by a sit, come or calling his name and a treat. 

Does that sound like a good plan?

I do want to do lots of training classes. In fact, I'm very excited to start our first one and hopefully help the bonding experience. I'm surprised at how hard I am having to work to see results! But it is what it is. I signed up for this and paid a pretty penny. 

What is everybody's dogs'/puppy's favorite toys? This little guy isn't interested in anything rubbery or squeaky. He doesn't care for balls either. He kind of likes soft plush toys, but seems to go after paper bags the most. That's funny to watch. He doesn't like peanut butter all that much so he doesn't like the Kong very much. 

Thanks everyone.


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## Larsbar79 (Mar 21, 2016)

Rkaymay said:


> My 2 y/o girl was a demon puppy. Exactly like you described. I swear, from the time she turned 8 weeks old until she was 14 weeks old, I couldn't hold her because she would bite constantly - and hard. It was miserable. I hated her for a while. I learned that with her, she needed LOW stimulation. No tug, no high pitched praise. Lots of treats. Lots of impulse games. Fetch was good for her as her attention was on the ball, not me (though we had to keep games short). Eager to please, but clever. She needed activities that took a lot of thinking. And when she became bored, she started biting. And patience. So much patience. She was 6 months old before she started to mellow out. Now, at 2 years old, she's so calm. She still gets excited, but she found her off switch, and she's able to calm herself. She won't leave me alone. Even when our puppy wants to play, if I leave the room she's following me. Oh, and she adores my 4 y/o brother and is so, so gentle with him.


OMG yes! Can you be my friend!? Yes that is Rocket. That is totally how he is. Wow.


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## Rkaymay (May 12, 2014)

There is a light, I promise! The calm will come. I had to switch off all my emotions when dealing with Z sometimes. It was hard to learn. On the plus side, I'm now fantastic in a crisis. 

Here is Z with my four year old brother. They really are BFFs.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Larsbar79 said:


> ...I feel like when I called the Reents after that first week, they were very defensive and acted like I didnt know what I was doing. I was a bit insulted. Ive had dogs all of my life! Ones that I rehabilitated from being abused and all different crossbred mutts! I was beside myself at the thought of having my toddler grow up with a gentle fun Golden! So excited! They gave me the tool of scruffing- dominant correction "to show the pup who is boss" Has anyone else needed to use correction like this for bitng with their Dichi Golden?
> 
> I'm working with a trainer, too, and she thinks that this pup is very sensitive to touch and gets overly stimulated. She thinks its possible that the pups were well taken care of but not handled quite enough with hands....?
> 
> ...


Welcome to the forum. What is your puppy's name? I'm sorry you're not having the experience with him so far that you expected. I have raised or helped with 5 different puppies as an adult, starting when my youngest of 3 girls was 2 1/2 years old. (I'm sharing this with you, not to go on about how much I know but to let you know that I have been in your shoes and understand puppies and small children are a tough mix) 

After growing up with herding breeds and raising one rough collie and 4 GoldenRetrievers I have learned that it is way more work raising a retriever puppy than a herding breed although each has their challenges. (I grew up with shelties they do not mouth like Goldens) If you have primarily worked with older crossbreeds of dogs and have never raised a puppy on your own before, it is really a whole different ball of wax. Your puppy learns everything from you, including appropriate behavior. 

All puppies explore their worlds with their mouths, they don't have hands. Whoever told you that a Golden Retriever puppy was a gentle playmate for a toddler lied to you. Generally those wonderful family pets you meet are the result of a lot of time, attention and training and are solid adults. There are more than a few Golden breeders who won't sell puppies to homes with children under a certain age because of how tough it can be to manage them together. 

Some are worse than others, but Golden puppies are very oral and it's very important that your toddler not every be unsupervised with the puppy. Your direct, undivided attention is needed and if you're trying to make dinner or pay bills etc. they can't be on the floor together, the puppy has to be confined to crate or exercise pen. I'm emphasizing this to make sure we are on the same page about how important it is that you never take your eyes off of them and always be within arms reach. Teach your child that we always play with the puppy with a soft, stuffed toy in hand so that the puppy has something appropriate to chew instead of skin.

I am not surprised that the breeder would be concerned if you called about puppy biting after the puppy had only been home a week, they may have been defensive if you had emphasized how much experience you have with dogs only to call about an 8 week old puppy biting. It really is completely normal at that age. I am surprised that your previous experience rehabilitating abused dogs didn't teach you that there are other ways of teaching consequences for biting other than scruffing the puppy. Many old school trainers believe in it and have used it with good results, but it's certainly not the recommended method from many trainers currently. If you see that it's not getting the desired results, it is probably not the best method with this individual dog and needs to stop. What did the trainer say about that?

How did you find your trainer and what are her credentials? I"m trying to understand how she has made these comments about how the puppy was raised or what sensitivity issues it may have if she's not worked privately with you all yet? (You said you will have a private session before calling the breeder again.) Are you all in a group class already?

I am absolutely not telling you I don't believe that your puppy may have some things going on that make him more of a project than a pet home can cope with or potentially not the best fit for a home with small children. (as I said I've been in your shoes and I know these puppies do exist) However, I am concerned that you weren't expecting a lot of sharp teeth and playbiting from a Golden Retriever puppy for the first month or two. 

I am also concerned that you have only been trying your "new tools" for 3 days and expect that you should be seeing more progress or that he is not reacting as expected. As someone pointed out, he is just a toddler baby himself. You correct your human child over and over and over for years to teach him lessons about not throwing things or running into the street etc. - puppies need that same repetition over many months to learn things and they are individuals, some learn at different rates and respond better to different approaches. 

Consistency is the #1 most important thing in helping them learn quickly and if you've only had this puppy a few weeks, he hasn't had enough time to learn what you expect of him. He is going to be a good 2 year commitment of time, daily obedience training and serious attention to child/puppy management and also daily aerobic exercise. It may be that if you have years of experience with rehabilitating abused dogs and have had serious concerns about this puppy from his first days home that perhaps it would be best for the toddler and the dog if he was returned to the breeder while he still young enough to be placed in the appropriate home for his personality. I would never suggest giving up on a dog too soon, but your first responsibility is to the safety of your child and it's also important to set the puppy up for success, give him the best possible shot at a long, healthy life. You may want input from someone who specializes in behavior, a certified veterinary behaviorist who has had special training.

If I were in your shoes, I would ask the trainer a lot of questions about her experience working with retriever puppies, Labs, Goldens, Chessies etc. to make sure she knows how normal it is that they are far mouthier for far longer than other breeds. It may be that you would like to contact your breeder and ask them for a recommendation to a trainer who they know and respect in your area, even another experienced Golden breeder who could observe your puppy at home and give you some feedback and suggestions. Even posting some video here of your puppy might be helpful in letting people understand how you feel he is different than the average Golden puppy (we have plenty of people here who have been breeding and raising Goldens for decades).


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

My puppy, once he hit 5 months, was a devil. He'd bite me no matter what I did - as soon as I walked into the room, his teeth were on my arm. It lasted until he was 8 months (he's 9.5 months now). I tried a lot of things those three months - walking out, powering through it, ignoring him, tethering him. I think my issue then was that I wasn't consistent, I'd try one thing and if it didn't work fast enough, I'd try something else. Once I stuck to one method (I chose to walk out because then the message was clear to him - biting = end of play time and no contact), he got the idea faster. Now he's 9 months and an absolute doll - okay he still puts his mouth on me but now there's no pressure and a simple "let go" or "ouch" gets him to let go. If he puts even the slightest bit of pressure, I walk out. 

I'm not in expert by any means, Kaizer's my first puppy and he's one of the easier puppies, imo. But your puppy is young, and he's never had the opportunity to really bond with you. Bonding doesn't necessarily come in the form of pets or cuddles either. Kaizer honestly hated to be pet until 8-9 months. He tolerated it but he was very clear about when he wanted it to end (he bit us, just like your puppy). We respected that and backed off and waited til he came to us for pets, which sometimes could take awhile.

I bonded with Kaizer mainly through training. I taught him to sit and stay, down and stay, paw, leave it, etc. starting from 9-10 weeks. I taught him to sit and wait for his food (he didn't get any food until his butt was planted on the ground and I released him), I think that helped him appreciate me more.

The more work you put into it now, the better relationship you'll have in the future - even if it doesn't feel like you have any relationship for a couple of months. Until the end of last month, Kaizer pretty much ignored me - he'd say hi to me for a second and then leave to go with someone else. Now, he's all over me (literally, he will sit in my lap with his butt in my face because hes too big now and lick my hands to death. This is the same puppy who found great fun in bruising my hands and legs and ripped holes in all of my clothes).

Extremely mouthy puppies are masters at teaching patience.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Larsbar79 said:


> So based on everyone's thoughts here, I will keep treats in my hand at all times and voice correct any biting followed by a sit, come or calling his name and a treat.
> 
> Does that sound like a good plan?
> 
> ...


Bonding is a process that is helped with obedience practice and working as a team over time. It doesn't generally happen over night. Classes are good, but it's the practicing at home a couple times a day, every day that is what helps the process over time. 

You can teach your puppy to "kiss" your hands by smearing a little something like butter or soft cream cheese or even a tiny dot of cheese whiz out of a spray can on the back of your hand and telling him "yes, kiss, kiss" in a happy voice. Work on it every day till it seems reliable and then introduce the exercise with your child.

If he doesn't like peanut butter that much, put something different in his kong. YOu can use the search feature at the top of this page to help, it will bring up all the old threads on any subject you can think of. Try using plain yogurt and some ripe banana, freeze some low sodium broth and canned green beans, wrap in saran wrap and freeze standing up. 

Try experimenting with different rewards, something stinky like goose liver or frozen Bil Jac dog food (you can buy it in the grocery store where I live) - my collie is very independent and doesn't like a lot of food but will do back flips for Bil Jac. Even try left over bites of meat from your previous night's meal. These are high value rewards to get him to focus attention on you. You can check you tube for Kikopup dog training, she has lovely videos on teaching your puppy attention and different foundation skills for obedience.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Larsbar79 said:


> I did what the breeders told me to do. They said hard and fast correction in the beginning since we need to tell the puppy that teeth on any part of us is not acceptable. but I WILL NOT be snarled at from my dog. Ever.


Do you say I will NOT have mu child cry EVER? 

Think about how you are from the pup's perspective. Do you represent safety, kindness, a touchstone in a new world that can be trusted? 

Take the pup's attitude as feedback, and as the adult human study up on puppy training. Never hit or correct hard a puppy bc you can win the battle but lose the pup's trust.

Once you are referring to a young pup as "some dog" it sounds like you resent/ dislike the pup, and you should return to your experienced breeder so the golden puppy can have a loving home, a fresh start, and a clean slate

. It sounds like you expected Lassie on TV. A golden puppy IS a mouthy baby but a wonderful adult. 

Sign up for a STAR Puppy class with a CPDT-KA certified trainer if you can cut the puppy a break and teach him kindly, or return the puppy.


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## Elsa Cholla's Mom (Feb 8, 2016)

Hello, welcome, and hugs. I felt like you did, that I had got an aggressive pup. Raising a bitey Golden is way harder than raising any other kind of puppy. Elsa made me cry so often because she was basically unapproachable. I am still not fully bonded with my pup, she isn't a cuddler, and she has been such hard work. I tried the domination thing, I think it actually made things worse. You haven't ruined your pup. It's still so young. There are many threads here about this issue. I have also seen a lot of people have spend money on trainers and training to solve this issue, but really it is a time issue. I live remotely, so did not have those options and I am glad.
It gets better. Elsa is now 5 months old. She can get a bit mouthy still, but she knows and tries to restrain herself. She is actually a very smart dog, and I think eventually will be a 'Good' dog.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I would ask you to bring puppy back if I were breeder. It's hard to raise a small child AND an infant puppy who will need lots and lots of reinforcing to be the dog you want him to be when he's 2 or so. I wouldn't shame you around it, it seems like it may just have been a bad matching of family to puppy, as he needs lots right now- every suggestion you got was a good one, and certainly try it all (including if he doesn't get it on the mouthiness, closing his muzzle and saying NO, then offering your hand again, repeating until he doesn't close his teeth on your hand- but don't expect he will remember that exercise later in the day- this training to live with humans is a process) but do not feel bad if you think it's too much. It truly might be too much with all else on your plate and if you do return him to the breeder, understand what you're calling aggression is really typical Golden puppy behavior so don't use that word.


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## Larsbar79 (Mar 21, 2016)

His name is Rocket- my son's idea.  He is now 9.5 weeks old. We got him at 7 weeks old exactly. I've been using the recommended tools from the breeder and trainer for almost 2 weeks now.

I helped raise 2 stray pups when I was a kid. I have groomed and long term dog-sat for many years. In 1999, I found my two strays and then about 2010, they were getting older and more tired and obviously completely different than a pup. My parents found 2 strays back around 2001 and 2007 and I helped with those as I was living at home again. Retriever and beagle mixes, rat terrier mixes, boxer mixes...a little of everything these dogs were. 

My son is very gentle when playing and we always give him a toy for his hand and we never let them play unsupervised. Alex gets excited sometimes and so does the puppy so I have to reel the both of them in sometimes. I mainly called the breeder because after a week of being home from 7weeks to 8weeks he was biting even harder and my gentle corrections weren't working. I knew I had to tech the puppy to bite toys etc instead of skin, clothing and whatnot. I also called them because I was concerned that this puppy didn't like us. I know that sounds dumb but it was not something I had considered would happen. I thought it would be instant love like I had from my other dogs in the past or even our kittens that we got. I know some of you won't believe me about that but it is true. 

The breeders told me to scruff him not the trainer. The trainer said "Oh boy looks like you have a bold puppy"! She said to use my voice as much as I could to correct him instead of scruffing after a few days. It seemed to work at first but then he regresses and bites harder. She has been a trainer for like over 30 years. A lot of ppl I have talked to, even my veterinarian, have heard of her and used her facility for their personal dogs.

I signed up for a puppy class that starts in april, so I had to wait a bit. She said I was part of the AllBreed Obedience family and to ask her any questions if I needed help while I waited for class to start.

I need to video what he is doing. Its just hard as I don't have anyone to help me video while I interact. Hubs is out of town for a while yet. I asked for help here, bcecause I don't want any biting to get of hand seeing as I have a toddler. My son is really god wit him. Doesn't hit him, pull on him, doesn't bother when he is sleeping etc. I understand the biting, I do! I know GR are mouthy! I just am concerned when he bites harder or bares his teeth after correction. 

But I will defintely use treats and redirect like I had originally started. Now that he knows his name and "sit", I'm hoping it works.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Here is another thread, not sure if you've seen it, might make you feel better to see that there are others in similar boat:

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...05626-i-cannot-manage-biting.html#post6401914


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## Larsbar79 (Mar 21, 2016)

aesthetic said:


> My puppy, once he hit 5 months, was a devil. He'd bite me no matter what I did - as soon as I walked into the room, his teeth were on my arm. It lasted until he was 8 months (he's 9.5 months now). I tried a lot of things those three months - walking out, powering through it, ignoring him, tethering him. I think my issue then was that I wasn't consistent, I'd try one thing and if it didn't work fast enough, I'd try something else. Once I stuck to one method (I chose to walk out because then the message was clear to him - biting = end of play time and no contact), he got the idea faster. Now he's 9 months and an absolute doll - okay he still puts his mouth on me but now there's no pressure and a simple "let go" or "ouch" gets him to let go. If he puts even the slightest bit of pressure, I walk out.
> 
> I'm not in expert by any means, Kaizer's my first puppy and he's one of the easier puppies, imo. But your puppy is young, and he's never had the opportunity to really bond with you. Bonding doesn't necessarily come in the form of pets or cuddles either. Kaizer honestly hated to be pet until 8-9 months. He tolerated it but he was very clear about when he wanted it to end (he bit us, just like your puppy). We respected that and backed off and waited til he came to us for pets, which sometimes could take awhile.
> 
> ...


Never thought of it that way. I wouldn't have thought it would take that long for that kind of acceptance of affection.


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## Larsbar79 (Mar 21, 2016)

Prism Goldens said:


> I would ask you to bring puppy back if I were breeder. It's hard to raise a small child AND an infant puppy who will need lots and lots of reinforcing to be the dog you want him to be when he's 2 or so. I wouldn't shame you around it, it seems like it may just have been a bad matching of family to puppy, as he needs lots right now- every suggestion you got was a good one, and certainly try it all (including if he doesn't get it on the mouthiness, closing his muzzle and saying NO, then offering your hand again, repeating until he doesn't close his teeth on your hand- but don't expect he will remember that exercise later in the day- this training to live with humans is a process) but do not feel bad if you think it's too much. It truly might be too much with all else on your plate and if you do return him to the breeder, understand what you're calling aggression is really typical Golden puppy behavior so don't use that word.


The breeder and trainer both said not to close the muzzle or use my hand to correct his mouth. That's why I didn't do that. Its not that I don't want to put in the time, I just really want to make sure I'm doing this right at this time, and I don't raise a Golden that bites. But I feel as though if I cant bond with him like I wanted to then maybe he isn't the dog for us...? The only reaaon I feel its aggression is because he comes back and bites harder after correctins of voice or with scruffing. He was on his back rlling around and I was getting a big pinecone out of his mouth. I said Give like we have been learning and I got it out. Then he tried to mouth me and I said no bite in a low voice and tried turning him back over on his front so we could go get a ball and he bares his teeth at me and bites as soon as I try to roll him over, and then kept biting at me. Finally I just used the leash to turn him over so we could try and play. That's what was concerning me at times. Its why I'm on here today asking questions.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

Originally Posted by Larsbar79 View Post
So based on everyone's thoughts here, I will keep treats in my hand at all times and voice correct any biting followed by a sit, come or calling his name and a treat. 

Does that sound like a good plan?

Almost.  You don't want to bribe/lure the pup with food/treats in your hand where the pup knows you have them all the time. Put a few containers of food/treats in different areas of the house that once the dog follows your cue you can then reaward just in case you don't have any hidden in your pocket at the time the pup is being good. 

They are smart because they are still so young it is important to give so many reinforcements that they believe they will get one every time they blink but you don't want them to be able to see it. It sets up what is going on where Rocket is only working for you when he knows that something good is coming his way. 


Believe me 3 weeks is a very small amount of time to expect a pup to really have a good understanding of what you ask.

It takes some where in between 500 and 1,000 times of doing something the way you want it done/consistently for them to really have any understanding. 

When they are so young management is one of the best tools you have so that they don't keep repeating things that make bad habits.

I understand tha whole time we were waiting for our little prince to come home, we imagined all the love, happiness and good times we will have. 

It is a rude awakening when that sweet sleeping puppy turns around and snarls, lunges, and bites at you sometimes because they are scared and sometimes because they are just having a melt down like our human toddlers do when we ask them to do things they don't want.

You will get through this and two years from now you will have that dream dog that you thought you would get as a pup as long as you do the hard work of raising the pup. 

Yes we think we are bringing home lassie but we have godzilla.


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## Larsbar79 (Mar 21, 2016)

Ljilly28 said:


> Do you say I will NOT have mu child cry EVER?
> 
> Think about how you are from the pup's perspective. Do you represent safety, kindness, a touchstone in a new world that can be trusted?
> 
> ...


I totally want to represent kindness. it was my first instinct. But I was told to do something different. I read a ton on training before he came home. This just is feeling different than what I have read on the internet. Its why I looked for this forum and posted my concerns. You are right, I didn't like the pup at first. All he did was bite and literally never wagged his tail at us. NO kisses, wouldn't come out of his crate to greet us...no feedback. I figured he didn't like us. I'm going to try training classes and raining at home over the next month. Fast forward to now and he does give me tail wags and wants to come out of the crate to me and my husband. I hope it continues. I know this little guy is smart and I hope he understands what we want to do for him. 

If my friends and family could meet all of you, they would tell you I have treated my dogs and cats like kings and queens. Given them everything and treated the better than I treat myself sometimes. I absolutely love dogs and after grooming for so long I fell in Golden Love. It was my dream to have a Golden and forgive me if I'm not in love with this one yet.


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## Larsbar79 (Mar 21, 2016)

solinvictus said:


> Originally Posted by Larsbar79 View Post
> So based on everyone's thoughts here, I will keep treats in my hand at all times and voice correct any biting followed by a sit, come or calling his name and a treat.
> 
> Does that sound like a good plan?
> ...


Ok I got it. 

I'm hoping that's what happens!


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Sounds like you have a very normal NON-AGGRESSIVE golden retriever puppy. Not all of them act like Rocket is acting, but it is very normal for them to. The bonding will not happen until he is probably around 6 to 8 months. At this stage he is too busy exploring and learning through his mouth. You have to remember not to compare him with other puppies you have raised.

My first dog Brady, was exactly like that. It took months and months before he stopped biting me and then my children. We tried everything the trainers taught us, and I bought lots of tools and tried many things. My breeder did not sell puppies to families with children under four, for that very reason. Within a year, he turned into the best dog ever, very attached to me and the rest of the family. Gentle with kittens, ducklings and baby chicks. He became such a great dog, we added two more golden puppies to our family. He was worth those trying months. 

Many times when he was in his landshark phase, it was because he was tired. When he got that way, in the crate he went, he would be asleep in minutes.

I also kept a leash on him at all times, and when I could not watch him with my children, his leash was tied to my waist, so I knew where he was at all times.

When he is in his landshark phase, when saying no, make sure your voice is deep. A woman's or child's voice will go more high pitch when upset at the dog, that will just encourage him for more play biting - that is what he is doing, play biting, not being aggressive. This is how he played with hi littermates.

It is going to be a very hard few months, and you need to decide if you can handle it. Yes, you and your child will have hands that look like hamburg and you pants and sleeves will have teeth holes in them. 

Brady was my fifth puppy, and I have had two others since. He was the hardest of them all as a puppy, but so worth it. Rocket will want to please you as he gets older, but right now he is just a baby with so many changes, and so many things to learn and explore. Because Goldens are bred to use their mouths for hunting, they are a very mouthy breed. If you search this forum, you will see that you are not alone. Many members came to this forum with exactly the same issues.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

You have a totally NORMAL puppy. You are expecting WAY too much from an infant puppy. They don't understand the concept of training, they don't know what the heck walking on leash is about, they don't speak English, and they are brand new to the entire big world. And it is 100% normal for a retriever puppy to use their mouth on everything.

Let the puppy be a puppy, don't expect a "kindergartner" to be able to do "algebra". 

Try to be patient and give the puppy time to mature enough to understand what you want. He isn't even old enough to go to training. Personally if a trainer told me a 9 week old puppy was aggressive or needed harsh handling I'd find a different trainer. 

Read through this blog. It's great information. 

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...y-up-1-year/380986-its-puppy-not-problem.html


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

mylissyk said:


> You have a totally NORMAL puppy. You are expecting WAY too much from an infant puppy. They don't understand the concept of training, they don't know what the heck walking on leash is about, they don't speak English, and they are brand new to the entire big world. And it is 100% normal for a retriever puppy to use their mouth on everything.
> 
> Let the puppy be a puppy, don't expect a "kindergartner" to be able to do "algebra".
> 
> ...


Ha! I was just coming here to post the same link - I do think that it puts things in perspective. 

Noah was not particularly snuggly as a baby - and the lunging back at you snarling sounds like a puppy trying to play, but not understanding that it's not an acceptable way to play. He thinks it's a keep away game (the removal of the pine cone). Try "wanna trade?" game with him when you want to take something from him. Maybe that ball you wanted to re-direct him to, toss it around and play with it while he has the pine cone, and when he sees that's much more interesting you can say "wanna trade?" and offer him the ball - or even a treat. 

When Noah feels that he absolutely must retrieve lost socks, t-shirts (that are not lost, but he believes that they are), and brings them out to the living room all proud that he "found" them for us, we do not try to chase him to make it a keep away game. We "thank" him profusely for finding them for us, tell him what an amazing boy he is and put them up in a better location (knock wood - he's never tried to eat clothes - maybe because we never made it a game of keep away). Sometimes you have to pick your battles. For us - it was not a battle worth fighting him over. If he enjoys "finding" things so much for us, we figured we'd make him feel proud for doing so. 

I remember Noah starting to get cuddly around 6 months old for us. Now he'll jump up on the sofa, throw his front legs over my lap and get loved on. 

It IS a struggle with these landsharks, and you DO have your hands full with a toddler and a baby dog all at the same time, and you ARE going to have times that you wonder what the heck you were thinking. But if you can weather this storm, you will have an awesome dog at the end. 

Noah is 14 months old tomorrow, and he's still a work in progress - now we're dealing with hormones and smells that distract him, but I have short 5 minute "games" (training) with him throughout the day - no longer than 5 minutes at a time. I can say "wanna play a game?" and he's spinning in circles in excitement. We're working on generalizing his training in new areas. 

Keep Rocket's training sessions at home short, lower your expectations for behavior of a baby dog, and realize that for a few months now - it's being a kind and consistent mom to him, even when he might make you want to pull your hair out - it will pay off!


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## Altairss (Sep 7, 2012)

In response to your comment 
" _The only reaaon I feel its aggression is because he comes back and bites harder after correctins of voice or with scruffing. He was on his back rlling around and I was getting a big pinecone out of his mouth. I said Give like we have been learning and I got it out. Then he tried to mouth me and I said no bite in a low voice and tried turning him back over on his front so we could go get a ball and he bares his teeth at me and bites as soon as I try to roll him over, and then kept biting at me. Finally I just used the leash to turn him over so we could try and play. That's what was concerning me at times. Its why I'm on here today asking questions."_

This is really fear and lack of trust. Think of this not as aggression but a fear or reaction to your handling. To him it feels like your being aggressive first so he reacts in turn. First don't scruff anymore that will in a dog of his current position incite more reactions. If I walked up and say smacked a person their first reaction would be to smack me back. Correct by turning your back, walk away if he continues by perusing you, quietly say no pick him up put him the crate walk away. Low low low stimulation. You want to keep him below his arousal threshold. Some dogs have a very low threshold.

Reward good behavior lavishly have a real party! Verbal and petting let him know your happy with him. You got to teach him what you like and for food look for something he finds really tasty. Then teach him games that use his brain. Make sure he gets both mental and physical stimulation every day. A tired puppy is a happy puppy. If he can't seem to settle easy well give him some crate time some puppies just like a baby can't self sooth and can't relax easily. This means an over tired puppy that will react even worse.

Find ways to make positive experiences for him that you do with him. lots of positive training, calm voice and have everyone on the same page. Every one correcting the same and every one use the same training tools set him on a schedule.
Feed at the same time, walk at the same time small training sessions every day. A training session can be five minutes! This provide security and comfort to a stressed dog. Changes will take a couple weeks at this point he does not trust you he can't predict your behavior so his behavior will be all over the place.

Take a deep breath try and relax they feel your stress by reading your face and body and react to it be as consistent as you can. You can do this but it will take some work. I can tell you from personal experience with a sensitive golden who was highly reactive its worth it.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

Larsbar79 said:


> His name is Rocket- my son's idea.  He is now 9.5 weeks old. We got him at 7 weeks old exactly. I've been using the recommended tools from the breeder and trainer for almost 2 weeks now.


The fact that he came home at 7 weeks may have something to do with his mouthing issues. I brought my little guy home at 7 weeks too (there were specific reasons for this: the breeder usually places them at 8 weeks). I asked our trainer (who is also a breeder) what difference this would make, and she told me that most breeders don't place their pups until 8 weeks old because, during that last week (week 7 to 8), the pups start learning bite inhibition from their litter mates. She told me I'd have to work extra hard on this issue, given that he was coming home at 7 weeks. And she was right - he's been by far the mouthiest pup we've ever had.

I'd add that my little guy was also the "bold" pup of the litter, and I can't really see him being a good fit for a home with young children where he wouldn't have a job (he's going to be my agility partner). He's a very "in your face" dog, exactly the type of dog I asked the breeder to match me with, and he's a delight to train and work with - but I can see that he could have been a real handful for someone who wanted a nice, laid-back family pet.

I'm a bit surprised that a breeder would match this type of pup with a family that has a toddler. It must be tough for you to manage. It will be ok in the end, but I understand that it's not easy.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

Maybe today is a particularly difficult day for you so things are looking bleak but reading through your posts it sounds like you really don't like this pup. I'm not one to advocate giving up on a dog but with a toddler in the picture I think you should consider returning the pup to his breeder now while he's still very young. Our first Golden was very mouthy and it took a very long time before things calmed down. I'm talking almost 3 years. He ended up being "the best dog ever" but it was a long haul getting there. I think a really strong bond with your dog takes time and many shared experiences. If it weren't for the fact that you have the toddler, I'd say hang in there, work with him and be patient, you'll get there. But you have to be realistic about how much time and energy you have to devote to the pup and things are likely to become more challenging as he goes through adolescence.


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## Larsbar79 (Mar 21, 2016)

mylissyk said:


> You have a totally NORMAL puppy. You are expecting WAY too much from an infant puppy. They don't understand the concept of training, they don't know what the heck walking on leash is about, they don't speak English, and they are brand new to the entire big world. And it is 100% normal for a retriever puppy to use their mouth on everything.
> 
> Let the puppy be a puppy, don't expect a "kindergartner" to be able to do "algebra".
> 
> ...


I understand. I just wanted to make sure this wasn't excessive biting nor aggressiveness and that I was doing things right.


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## Larsbar79 (Mar 21, 2016)

ceegee said:


> The fact that he came home at 7 weeks may have something to do with his mouthing issues. I brought my little guy home at 7 weeks too (there were specific reasons for this: the breeder usually places them at 8 weeks). I asked our trainer (who is also a breeder) what difference this would make, and she told me that most breeders don't place their pups until 8 weeks old because, during that last week (week 7 to 8), the pups start learning bite inhibition from their litter mates. She told me I'd have to work extra hard on this issue, given that he was coming home at 7 weeks. And she was right - he's been by far the mouthiest pup we've ever had.
> 
> I'd add that my little guy was also the "bold" pup of the litter, and I can't really see him being a good fit for a home with young children where he wouldn't have a job (he's going to be my agility partner). He's a very "in your face" dog, exactly the type of dog I asked the breeder to match me with, and he's a delight to train and work with - but I can see that he could have been a real handful for someone who wanted a nice, laid-back family pet.
> 
> I'm a bit surprised that a breeder would match this type of pup with a family that has a toddler. It must be tough for you to manage. It will be ok in the end, but I understand that it's not easy.


Thank you for your empathy with this. I'm not concerned with him biting my son. I have them interact properly and always supervised. He doesn't go after my son on purpose other than to bite his clothes. I make my son help feed him and give him treats and separate the two if my son gets too ramped up or if the puppy gets too ramped up. I know this is a stage/phase in the pups life. 

I thought at some point I read that 8 weeks old was better because of the bite inhibition learning from his mates. Yeah I just trusted the breeder. I asked him how was the pup? Bold? kinda calm, etc? He said all of the boys were the same. Didn't really tell me anything else. I brought my son with to the interview and to pick-up day. 

My husband is out of the country on business right now and I wont make any major decisions without him. I want to give this pup a chance in our house and get him through the main teething phase and through rounds of classes. I want to exercise him well every day and teach him tricks and have fun. I also already enjoy grooming him.


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## Larsbar79 (Mar 21, 2016)

TheZ's said:


> Maybe today is a particularly difficult day for you so things are looking bleak but reading through your posts it sounds like you really don't like this pup. I'm not one to advocate giving up on a dog but with a toddler in the picture I think you should consider returning the pup to his breeder now while he's still very young. Our first Golden was very mouthy and it took a very long time before things calmed down. I'm talking almost 3 years. He ended up being "the best dog ever" but it was a long haul getting there. I think a really strong bond with your dog takes time and many shared experiences. If it weren't for the fact that you have the toddler, I'd say hang in there, work with him and be patient, you'll get there. But you have to be realistic about how much time and energy you have to devote to the pup and things are likely to become more challenging as he goes through adolescence.


My toddler is easy. That's not my issue. He's really great with Rocket and is learning how we teach him to interact. Hes a great helper with feeding and fetching his toys etc. I guess things would be easier if Rocket showed some affection towards us. Then I wouldn't worry so much. It would be like hey he loves us! 

Trust me the decision to get a puppy was not a light one. I thought about it for a year and searched for breeders. I just wanted insight, more examples on what I'm going though and if it truly was normal. The snarling thing has bothered me the most. It is not for play. I just think maybe I have been doing things to make the pup do that. So I should stop


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## Rkaymay (May 12, 2014)

Even the best behaved Golden puppies like to snap. My current puppy, Link, is about 15 weeks old. He is so, so mellow, but his favorite game is "snap at people's fingers/face/clothes". Zelda quickly taught him awesome bite inhibition (see, my demon puppy turned into a wonderful adult), but he still just loves to snap at you. It is definitely a retriever thing to play like that.


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## Larsbar79 (Mar 21, 2016)

Altairss said:


> In response to your comment
> " _The only reaaon I feel its aggression is because he comes back and bites harder after correctins of voice or with scruffing. He was on his back rlling around and I was getting a big pinecone out of his mouth. I said Give like we have been learning and I got it out. Then he tried to mouth me and I said no bite in a low voice and tried turning him back over on his front so we could go get a ball and he bares his teeth at me and bites as soon as I try to roll him over, and then kept biting at me. Finally I just used the leash to turn him over so we could try and play. That's what was concerning me at times. Its why I'm on here today asking questions."_
> 
> This is really fear and lack of trust. Think of this not as aggression but a fear or reaction to your handling. To him it feels like your being aggressive first so he reacts in turn. First don't scruff anymore that will in a dog of his current position incite more reactions. If I walked up and say smacked a person their first reaction would be to smack me back. Correct by turning your back, walk away if he continues by perusing you, quietly say no pick him up put him the crate walk away. Low low low stimulation. You want to keep him below his arousal threshold. Some dogs have a very low threshold.
> ...


OK I see.... I could have a vey sensitive guy. I will be more calmer in my praise as well. That could be having a bad effect. and no more scruffing. 

I was afraid putting him back and forth in his crate after biting would cause him to think his crate is punishment..? That's why I hadn't done that too much.


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## Larsbar79 (Mar 21, 2016)

Rkaymay said:


> Even the best behaved Golden puppies like to snap. My current puppy, Link, is about 15 weeks old. He is so, so mellow, but his favorite game is "snap at people's fingers/face/clothes". Zelda quickly taught him awesome bite inhibition (see, my demon puppy turned into a wonderful adult), but he still just loves to snap at you. It is definitely a retriever thing to play like that.


Demon puppy, Godzilla and alligator. Yep these are definitely describing Rocket. ha

I'm hoping to get him into daycare as well. That I hope will help too


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## Larsbar79 (Mar 21, 2016)

rabernet said:


> Ha! I was just coming here to post the same link - I do think that it puts things in perspective.
> 
> Noah was not particularly snuggly as a baby - and the lunging back at you snarling sounds like a puppy trying to play, but not understanding that it's not an acceptable way to play. He thinks it's a keep away game (the removal of the pine cone). Try "wanna trade?" game with him when you want to take something from him. Maybe that ball you wanted to re-direct him to, toss it around and play with it while he has the pine cone, and when he sees that's much more interesting you can say "wanna trade?" and offer him the ball - or even a treat.
> 
> ...


We are going all positive now. I'm going to give it 110%. I don't just want to give up on this guy like some are telling me too. Hes just different than Ive ever had and needs different things/ways of doing things.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Have faith! I literally cried the first few months I brought Duke home. He was mouthy and had so much energy. He destroyed many pairs of yoga pants! And I was told to do the corrections - quick thump on the nose or hold his mouth shut when he was biting. That did not work for him!!! He just came back with more....I had to totally change my approach with him. He's very food motivated and I worked with him on that. Everything became positive reinforcement. He's now almost 4 and I love him more than anything. When we walk people always compliment him and how good he is. They don't know all the hard work that went into getting that behavior  

I found that the command "settle" works really well with him. He will sometimes still get wound up and I've taught him that good things come with settling. It's a work in progress, but if you invest some time up front as others have mentioned; you will have a wonderful dog before you know it.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Please do not expect too much too soon from your puppy. He is only 9.5 weeks old and he came home too early at 7 weeks. Goldens are very mouthy. It takes time to adjust. Max came home at 11 weeks, so he had the benefit of learning some bite inhibition from his litter mates and other dogs in the household. But, he still bit us--a lot. And he was big--30 pounds. My hands and forearms were covered with cuts and bruises for months. But one day, I noticed that the marks were gone. You must be patient, but know that the biting and mouthiness will subside.

Also, forget about walking on a leash at 9 weeks. Max hated the leash. It took obedience class and a gentle leader head collar to get him to walk properly. Now, 5 years later he walks with a flat collar and is a certified therapy dog. But he did not get to this point overnight. Good luck.


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

I read your post and thought to myself, take me back 4 years ago, and I was feeling your pain, literally. My Tugg is my sixth golden and of all my goldens, the bitiest, the most independent, and the most trying dog I have ever had. He housebroke quick, was crate trained when we got him, and we loved him the instant we met him. But the first year was awful. I remember one bitter cold night I had him outside in the middle of the night for a potty break, he lunged at me, grabbed hold of my leg and wouldn't let go. I was in tears, thought, what have we done bringing this dog into our home? And my poor husband, he asked me once, can we send him back? He was the mouthiest golden of all my six, and tried our patience daily. And he didn't seem to bond with either my husband or my self very well at first, but gradually, slowly, he became the dog he is today, quirky at times, funny, makes us laugh daily, loves all people and all dogs. And we wouldn't change him in any way. Be patient with your pup, love him, he is just a baby, give him time outs when he acts out, and your puppy will become the dog of your dreams. Just like our Tugg has done. Our life would not be as full as it is without him.

Edited: I also brought Tugg home at 7 weeks, have brought other goldens home at this age with no problem, but I think with Tugg,
this just contributed to his mouthiness. I think he would have benefited from corrections by his mother and his siblings for
nipping. And the other two dogs I had when we brought him home just tolerated the abuse he gave them, if my Tess had
been alive, she would have nipped his obnoxious behavior in the bud in the first 5 minutes.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Larsbar79 said:


> Demon puppy, Godzilla and alligator. Yep these are definitely describing Rocket. ha
> 
> I'm hoping to get him into daycare as well.


Daycare can be really counterproductive if it makes the pup over threshold or highly excited for hours on end. Make sure the staff is really tuned into body language and signs the pup has had enough and needs some downtime. Get out for an hour off leash walk in the woods or on the town athletic fields/ a college country running trails etc, and try feeding meals in the Kong Wobbler or Buddy Ball on www.cleanrun.com so it is tiring.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

You will get different opinions on daycare. For me, when Duke turned 16 weeks and could actually play in a controlled environment where the dogs were not allowed to get over threshold, it was a godsend for us. All daycares are not created equal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

OK OP I'm sorry you're going through this. But let's rethink something. 
A 9.5 puppy is not aggressive unless he is reacting to being scared out of his mind and has no option other than teeth. 
So Rocket is bratty. No manners. Over stimulated. 
How to deal with that? Tone it down, not up. A scruff only reinforces that the world is unkind and cruel. Instead, an overestimulated puppy needs to have a time out in his crate with a frozen Kong, if he doesn't like peanut butter use yogurt bananas and kibble. 
If he bites become a tree. No feedback at all. He will pitch a fit and if you become absolutely boring to him by not moving at all he will eventually put butt on floor. At that moment deliver a cookie. When he acts up again become a tree again. Rinse and repeat.
Retrievers are mouthy. Herding breeds are ankle nippers. Sled dogs pull. It's instinct. What they need to know is how to behave appropriately. 
Rocket has come home one week too early. At his age he is going through a fear stage. If he learns during this fear stage that the world is unkind he will become aggressive because he will feel he needs to protect himself. There is a fear stage between 8 and 11 weeks and Rocket is in the middle of it. At this time he needs reassurance, calm, a feeling of safety. 
Step back, breathe. He is not aggressive now but he can become aggressive if he doesn't get the nurturing he needs. 
Discipline is not violent, it is consistent. Small steps. Stop interacting if he bites. Reward good behaviour with a cookie. You don't need to rely on food always BUT at this point it's the quickest way to let him know he's done something good.
Get a good positive reinforcement trainer. I don't know where you are but if you can find someone who is Pat Miller certified that's a good start. 
Also, a good puppy is a tired puppy. That doesn't mean only physical tired. Put him in the car for a ride. Take him to a quiet lake or a quiet beach. Let him experience and see new things. 
He will bond with you when you show him he can trust you. Not fear you.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I remember doing things to keep Brady "busy" - like filling up the tub just a few inches so he could play and splash, a kiddie pool outside will do the same, putting a sprinkler up for him to play with, hiding treats so he could find them, etc.

You will notice once you go to class, he will behave better for the rest of the day and even sometimes the next day - because he was mentally exercised.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

cubbysan said:


> I remember doing things to keep Brady "busy" - like filling up the tub just a few inches so he could play and splash, a kiddie pool outside will do the same, putting a sprinkler up for him to play with, hiding treats so he could find them, etc.
> 
> You will notice once you go to class, he will behave better for the rest of the day and even sometimes the next day - because he was mentally exercised.


Ice!!!! Ice cubes in a kiddie pool are a wonderland!!!???


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## Chris R (Mar 21, 2016)

*Rocket*

Larissa –

I’m very disturbed to read your posts about Rocket. 

When you first picked up Rocket, you had contacted me to tell me that you were concerned about Rocket’s puppy biting, and that you felt you weren’t bonding to each other. I had asked you at that time to bring Rocket and make a visit to us so that we could see what was actually happening and then suggest some corrections. I feel that training is a observational thing and doesn’t lend itself well to telephone counseling. 

You did not want to bring him for a training visit, so we did have some limited discussion on the phone. I cautioned you that puppy biting is THE biggest complaint the Golden puppy owners have, and explained the importance of puppies needing to be taught that it is not allowable to put their teeth on people. I told you that corrections should be firm, consistent and instantaneous. (which it seems you interpreted to mean “hard & fast). Puppies do not need “hard” corrections, they need firm and consistent corrections. I suggested you do immediate interventions when he began bitting -- by grasping him firmly by the back of his neck, making eye contact, and firmly stating “no bite”, followed up by removing the incorrect object from his mouth, offering him an acceptable toy, and ending with a happy voice praising” Good Boy” once he took it. -- and then I cautioned you that you will most likely have to correct him approx. 5,000 times over the course of the next few months until he gets past the puppy biting stage.

When you told me that you felt he was not bonding with you, I suggested that you give him a day or so to acclimate to you and your family and felt he would quickly begin to bond with you. I told you that if it did not improve, I wanted you to return him to us, and told you that we would refund his entire purchase price to you. I stressed that we did not want you to keep him if you were not happy with him, or you felt that he was not the dog for you. At the end of our conversation I asked that we speak again in a few days, just to make sure everything was on track. 

You did call me back two days later and reported that Rocket had made a 100% turn-around and you believed you were now on the right track – that the puppy biting was better and he was now giving you puppy kisses. I congratulated you on a job well done, thanked you for checking back, and asked you to contact me if you had any other questions as you worked with Rocket.

As you have not contacted me, I thought all was well. I was very surprised today to read your posts about Rocket . . . and sad that you have not contacted me. However, that was my bad in not calling you. Even though you told me all was well, I should have checked back instead of assuming all was well. 

Larisa, it seems very clear in reading your posts that you are not happy with Rocket -- that you are still worried about the puppy biting, and that you feel you still have not bonded. So, I ask you again – please, please, please return him to me, and I will refund your purchase price to you in full – no recriminations, no argument. I don’t want you to have a puppy that you are not happy with, and I do want Rocket to be able to bond to his new family. Please call me ASAP to set up a time when we can get together. 

Thanks, Larisa. I hope to see you very soon. Chris Reents / Dichi Goldens


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Chris Reents, that was an awesome post and a classy way to handle the situation. It reminds me why I am always comfortable referring people to you for puppies.


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## Larsbar79 (Mar 21, 2016)

I want to make myself clear. 

I was absolutely planning on calling Dichi back after I had tried more positive handling of corrections AND after I had met privately with the trainer. I wanted to let Dichi know everything I had done before I called them back. I wanted an outsider , so to speak, to watch my interactions with the pup and see what their 30+ years of experience had to say. 

I in NO WAY intentionally kept them out of the loop. I in no way avoided calling them. I wanted to go down to the kennels so they could observe our interactions with rocket, but had no way of getting there last week. 

That first weekly home was hard! I wanted guidance so I called them and the trainer. Dichi asked If I wanted to return the pup to them. I'm like oh my gosh no way! I don't do that! I don't give up so quick in a week! Then they gave me some tools to use and said to give it time for the bonding. 

things started to go really well the next few days so I didn't feel the need to call Dichi back. I figured hey he's a smart little guy and we will keep working with him and he will come to love us. But then things kind of declined. No puppy kisses, no tail wags for any of us except my son sometimes, Never coming to us for any attention, no interactions when we tried to play with him! I have over a dozen different type of toys to try and entice him. Turns out he likes to chase a paper grocery bag. Quite funny. 

I could never have imagined in all my dog loving adult life that I would have a puppy who didn't like me and my family. Even yesterday when we were out meeting new ppl like we do every day, he was submissive and friendly towards every single stranger. They didn't even have a dog with them. He would not walk away from them. He would have just went with them. I had to physically pick him up to come with me while he fought the whole way home. These ppl just petted him for a minute and went on their way. They didn't fawn over him or play with him. 

It's absolutely confusing, disappointing and heart breaking. I mean did I ruin him?!? He's a beautiful pup and so good with my toddler son. What am I doing wrong?!

Most of you probably think I'm an *******, an idiot who knows nothing about dogs or puppies. That's not true. You don't know me. I have a lifelong love and history with dogs and puppies. Some of you think I hated the puppy. I didn't hate rocket. I just wanted him to love us like we were growing to love him. Calling him a Godzilla or alligator was just a joke ---like other people were calling their pups the same. Just a joke and a sigh of relief that my pup was normal and that it was a phase that we had to get through. 

After reading all of the posts about different experiences that you all had -some helpful advice and some not so much, I really did some soul searching and since rocket was so young, it would be better to give him a second chance now rather than later. 

I have never spoken ill of Dichi Goldens and I never will. I talked to Chris and Dick last night and since bonding has never really occurred they strongly suggested I return rocket to them so he may bond with another family during these early weeks and be happy. 

I desperately wanted this to work! It's why I looked for this forum. It's why I was emailing and calling the trainer several times. It's why I read all over the Internet and bought books on bonding/relationships with a puppy. I needed reassurance that I was doing the right thing by training rocket a certain way, interacting with him correctly and everything in between. 

I've spent several days crying over this and on an emotional roller coaster. This decision was not taken lightly.


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## wdadswell (Dec 17, 2015)

I can feel your pain and so sorry this didn't work out. You did what you had to do and I applaud you for it. You and Rocket can both move on now. He's young and will be fine.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Thank you for letting us know. 

The decision to return Rocket must have been extremely hard, but it sounds like it is the best one for Rocket and you.

That is honestly part of buying from a reputable and caring breeder - that a puppy of theirs may be returned at any time for any reason. FWIW, I have 2 goldens who were returned to their breeder and who fit wonderfully into my home and lifestyle. It happens.

Dichi Goldens handled this situation very well and I am truly sorry things did not click between you & Rocket.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Very well written post by Sunrise. And I think this bears repeating....



Sunrise said:


> ....*That is honestly part of buying from a reputable and caring breeder - that a puppy of theirs may be returned at any time for any reason. *...


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## Larsbar79 (Mar 21, 2016)

I knew that they would take a pup back for any reason. It's mine of the reasons I chose them as where wanted to get my dog from. I knew they care deeply about their dogs. You can see that by talking with them during the interview


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## Larsbar79 (Mar 21, 2016)

""It's one of the reasons I chose them ""^^^


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## Chris R (Mar 21, 2016)

*Rocket*

For those who have been following this thread, Rocket is safely back at home with us. He was so excited to see us, and is happy to be back playing with his littermate sister. He seems to still be his happy go lucky self. All is well that ends well. We appreciate Larisa returning him to us. Chris Reents - Dichi Goldens


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## GoldenFocus (Feb 28, 2016)

I am not an expert....but have had 6 dogs in my life. In my personal, humble opinion, fast hard dominant correction belongs in Guantanamo Bay with the guys in orange jumpsuits.

The little guy is fearful and concerned for his safety, hence the warnings. I would smother him in kindness and continue with the trainer route.

Have the pup in your lap as much as you can and praise it when it does good things, or is just sitting there looking cute. It will learn a lot more from affection and mutual respect then the "Corrections".

Again, just MHO


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## Elsa Cholla's Mom (Feb 8, 2016)

I am sorry to hear how this turned out. I was also sad to see the harsher responses to you, because I have felt all those feelings, and some days still do. 
I have had lots of dogs, my parents had working border collies, and I have always admired Goldens, I consider myself dog knowledgeable. I have actually helped lots of people with their own dog behaviour issues, but none of that prepared me much for Elsa. 

I never thought a single criticism towards the way you were feeling and in fact Larrisa, (sry if I spelt that wrong), I think you are a very brave woman for saying how you truly felt, putting it on this board, and sticking with the thread, even when people were reading you wrong. I have benefited and felt validated because of your bravery. I also think you have probably made the right choice for now, because you also are raising a toddler. I can't imagine raising Elsa around children, it would be the worst kind of roller coaster. Rocket may have, like Elsa finally identified that he was actually more scared, than aggressive. Elsa is not a pleaser, except of herself. She is an adventurer and loves the outdoors more than anything else. Thankfully, I can give that to her, and share that with her. 
I personally don't think the 7 week thing would have probably made any difference, I got Elsa at 10 weeks. Even at 5 plus months, Elsa and I are still working on communication, she still wants to bite me to get me to do things. 

I wish you the best of luck, and wishes for finding your family's best dog when the time is right.


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## Zeek's mom (Jan 18, 2016)

Elsa Cholla's Mom, I totally agree with you. I believe Larisssa was trying to do the best she could with an unfortunate situation. I do observe that all to often, people are so quick to dismiss a person's concerns about puppy behavior (possible aggression etc.) as perfectly normal and the situation is the new owner's fault. I still question why this particular puppy was chosen by the breeder as the right fit for this household. I also believe that the most recent post above by the breeder further places the blame on the new owner by saying he is back to his normal happy go lucky self now. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the puppy is doing well! But this recent breeder comment still makes me question why THIS puppy was chosen to be the right fit for this family in the first place.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

Larissa,

My heart goes out to you on having to make this hard decision. I hope you will find the right puppy for your home. So glad you did pick a breeder that was willing to help with whatever decision you made.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Zeek's mom said:


> Elsa Cholla's Mom, I totally agree with you. I believe Larisssa was trying to do the best she could with an unfortunate situation. I do observe that all to often, people are so quick to dismiss a person's concerns about puppy behavior (possible aggression etc.) as perfectly normal and the situation is the new owner's fault. I still question why this particular puppy was chosen by the breeder as the right fit for this household. I also believe that the most recent post above by the breeder further places the blame on the new owner by saying he is back to his normal happy go lucky self now. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the puppy is doing well! But this recent breeder comment still makes me question why THIS puppy was chosen to be the right fit for this family in the first place.


Teeny tiny thought here... but sometimes people have unrealistic expectations of golden retriever puppies... 

I've shared this story before - and it's something I continue to laugh about and tease my mom about... but when my older boy was a puppy, I would leave him home during the day while I was at work. He was supposed to be kept in my bedroom the whole time except for potty outings and so on...

My older sister (who actually should have known better because she taught puppy classes at one time and assisted at other levels as well) - had my mom convinced that Jacks was aggressive, that something was wrong with him, and we should return him to the breeder. And they called me to let me know they were taking him to the vet to have him checked out - the vet had been told all about how aggressive he was. Wouldn't stop mouthing and biting everything.

Keep in mind, my sister had nothing to do with the puppy. He was my puppy. It was all my money that was spent on him and literally in some ways I could already see that this boy was going to be my best boy. 

I had to take off from work to rush home to save my puppy. Met up with my mom at the vet... and had the gratification of the vet basically telling my mom that Jacks did not have an aggressive bone in his body. She showed my mom where he was teething, but also went on to explain puppy behavior to my mom. All stuff I'd told her, but she had to hear it from the vet (authority source) before she believed it. 

Jacks was and is the best dog I've ever owned. He had his kooky points, but when it came to training - it was all effortless. This was a dog who I'd take for quick walks and he was just naturally heeling with his head up and this bright and sweet look on his puppy face.

This was also a puppy who probably was our first ever who wanted to sleep with me at night instead of piling with the other dogs on the floor. He was this little puppy and basically slept on my pillow next to my head - even as he outgrew the pillow. He's 8 years old now and still climbs up and curls around my head to snuggle. 

That to me was the bond. He's primarily my dog... but because he has that very gentle, easygoing, and loving golden retriever temperament - he has special relationships with every member of my family, especially my mom. 

My mom worships him now - as does my oldest sister (the one who was recommending returning him to the breeder immediately). 

And it's not like the mouthing completely stopped. He's a very oral dog. He still gets mouthy when extra hyped up... and part of the reason why he revels in having a young brother now is because he can wrestle and chew on Bertie all he likes.

Some of these things are very natural for the breed... and it is something to keep in mind before you bring one home.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Closing thread per OP's request


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