# Sleeping Outside in 35°F to 45°F



## Lilliam

Personally, I would not allow a dog to sleep outside even if he has a dog house. I don't allow my dogs outside if I'm not watching them. And 35 to 45 degrees is too cold. There was only one time when my dogs did not sleep in the house with me - we were ranch sitting and the dogs slept in a barn that had been converted into a dog kennel. But they were inside, with straw and blankets. It was also in California.
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## Megora

35-45 degrees is somewhat balmy for night temps at this time of the year (where I live). But I would not leave my golden outside. Yuck. Those doghouses are prime territory for earwigs and other biting and hitchhiking creepycrawlies. Besides, I don't understand why you'd kick dogs outside at night while keeping them indoors during the day. That doesn't make sense.

And why wouldn't you want your beloved family pet inside with you while you are sleeping?


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## sameli102

While I'm not one that feels that dogs need to be invited into our bed or have equal rights as humans I would never put them out alone at night, and yes to me that is too cold. I wouldn't do it at 65. I don't even like them out in the day time without close and constant monitoring, too much can happen and I don't allow them to bark and disturb neighbors.
Why do you want to put him out? Goldens like to be with their families not distanced to a dog house with blankets and pillows. Mine want to lay in our bedroom doorway or on the floor right next to us.


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## goldenangels

I agree with the post from Chris. NO way would I ever leave my golden outside at night alone--no matter what the temp is.
Your poor dog is in the house during the day as a part of the family and then banished to the outdoors all alone at night. How confusing to a golden.


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## Megora

> While I'm not one that feels that dogs need to be invited into our bed


Heheh - I was hesitant to mention this, since not all people are crazy about dogs being on furniture, especially their beds. And I used to be that way - mainly because of the dog fur. 

But ohm. It gets very cold in the house at night because we conserve heat and turn the temp down to 65 (during the day it is set at 70). So that means I have a golden wrapped around my head for warmth (he gets cold) as he has been sleeping every night since he was 8 week old puppy. 

I wouldn't say 35 degrees is too cold with shelter. But it isn't always the most comfortable for the dogs, as they like being warm just as much as we do. Not too warm, but there's the thing.


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## Jackson'sMom

Why kick the dog outside at night? Your dog wants to be inside the house with you and your family.


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## MittaBear

It doesn't matter if it's the absolute perfect temperature for the dog outside. He's a family member too, and deserves to sleep inside with the rest of his family.


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## Cathy's Gunner

I agree with everyone, why put your dog outside at night? Goldens are meant to be kept inside. If you don't want him sleeping with you, leave him in a crate.

Gunner sleeps with me every night. When we first get in bed he lays his head on my shoulder and I wrap my arms around him and hold him as he sleeps. I love holding him. We keep each other warm. Usually after about 10-15 minutes of holding and loving on him he gets warm so he lays down next to me as close as he can get. There is nothing like it.


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## Charliethree

Don't understand that at all! Family member by day --outcast at night. So sad for the dog.


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## susan60

To answer the op's question, no, 35 degrees is not too cold for a golden with a doghouse. I wouldn't leave a dog out in sub-freezing temps without some sort of heat source, however.


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## Charliethree

IF you are going to keep your dog outside at night - which I don't agree with- it needs to be acclimatized to it. Starting in summer so the dog has a chance to grow the fur (undercoat) it needs to keep itself warm. A dog that sleeps in house where it is warm all the time does not have the coat to keep itself warm regardless whether it has a 'shelter'.


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## Sweet Girl

I have just one question: 

If he's an indoor dog all day, what is your reason for making him sleep outside at night?


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## Connor

I don't think those temperatures are too cold for a Golden if he has an adequate kennel along with blankets and pillows. If he's not happy with it then I would have thought that he would soon let you know by making it obvious that he wants to go in the house.

I can't agree with calling a Golden a house dog who must be kept indoors. After all they were bred to retrieve fowl etc from cold watery marshes and the like in cold old Scotland. 

If a kennel is cleaned regularly and treated with an insect growth regulator or the like 
then the onset of bugs should not be a problem.

Don't misunderstand me I've had Goldens for over thirty years and mine have all been spoilt to one degree or another, however I do think that some people go overboard in mollycoddling them.

If you are happy to have your Golden share your bed or bedroom then thats fine of course, but if you want him to sleep outside in a purpose built kennel in a secure garden/yard then fine. 

My Goldens seem to prefer to be out in the garden. In my case the garden is surrounded by a two metre high stone wall so the dogs security is not a problem.

Obviously common sense dictates that extremes of temperature should be treated accordingly.


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## TomCat'sGirl

Charliethree said:


> Don't understand that at all! Family member by day --outcast at night. So sad for the dog.


Sorry that just made me laugh. But I agree. I don't get it why is it oaky during the day and not at night. Is it the wandering around the house while everyone is sleeping? I say get a dog house inisde the the house (a crate ) Cash is not alloud outside with out being watched. I could only imagine that my grass would like the surface of the moon (he likes to dig for rocks :doh: ) if he was left alone. Also the fleas in the grass yuck! We also have racoons and they are cute but mean I would hate for Cash to get into a scuffle with a racoon. I have seen the damage a racoon has done to my friends dog. His fang even got knocked out and his dew claw was ripped out. Poor Rosco! Even though we have the largest crate possible and it's an eye sore in my formal living room Cash goes to his bed every single night. LOL it's a soft crate with mesh sides and top and often you will find the cat sitting on top just antagonizing (sp) poor Cash. I say fur or no fur let the dogs sleep indoors at night They may not *freeze* to death but I can imagine the cold and moisture can not be good for their joints and bones. I know that they are *dogs* but do *wild* dogs live out in the wilderness to a ripe old age of say 12-15?


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## Megora

> If a kennel is cleaned regularly and treated with an insect growth regulator or the like then the onset of bugs should not be a problem


Then you would have your dog sleep in something that has been chemically treated likely with something that is hazardous to children and pets.... ?


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## Connor

I do see the point you are trying to make But, with respect, I don't think you can compare the original posters Goldens living conditions with a "wild dog living out in the wilderness."


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## Connor

Megora. 

No I would not let my dogs sleep in a kennel that has just been treated with a hazardous chemical.

Kindly credit me with some common sense, please.


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## Megora

Connor said:


> Megora.
> 
> No I would not let my dogs sleep in a kennel that has just been treated with a hazardous chemical.
> 
> Kindly credit me with some common sense, please.


I would.... but there aren't too many bug killers that are not hazardous to pets and children. :uhoh:

I don't know where the OP lives, but assumed he/she lives in a warmer area than I do if it is 35 degrees at night (it's noon and only 25 degrees where I am). That isn't even below freezing. 

Warmer area means more bugs outside to me.  

Which of course reminds me of when we were newbie dog owners and had this grand scheme of keeping the dog outside. The dog house my dad built up against the house was actually pretty nice except in summer and fall it was crawling with spiders, earwigs, mosquitoes, and so forth. Plus there were wasps and yellow jackets constantly going in there. 

I suspect they bothered our dogs because he refused to go in there... 

Fortunately he only spent a few months outside before we fell too much in love with him to bear seeing his face plastered up against the house windows watching us inside.


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## FinnTastic

Goldens are people dogs and would prefer to be with people than outside by themselves... IMO 
Finn doesn't like to be outside without a person there with him.


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## Lilliam

^This.

If you are talking about an Akbash or a Great Pyranees who's been bred and reared to stay with his sheep it's perfectly understandable to keep them outside.

However....although goldens were bred in Scotland the reality is that the majority of goldens have transitioned to being family dogs, at least here in the U.S. While one must respect a breed's original intent, one must also be congnizant of modern lifestyles. And is a dog is not used to sleeping outside, I still say that 35 degrees is too cold.


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## Connor

Megora,
Well I must be doing something right because I've had Goldens for over 30 years now and those that have passed on all lived in excess of 13 years with very rare recourse to veterinary assistance.

Finntastic,
Goldens have varied preferences, just like people. Some goldens I've had prefer to be outside in the garden rather than cooped up in the house.


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## Connor

Liliam,

OK we agree to differ. However if a well constructed and insulated kennel is made available to a normal healthy Golden I see no problem with that temperature.

Obviously though if temperatures were extreme then my dogs would sleep in my house for that period.


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## Megora

> Well I must be doing something right because I've had Goldens for over 30 years now and those that have passed on all lived in excess of 13 years with very rare recourse to veterinary assistance.


I don't think I accused you of doing something wrong.... where you live, people are a bit different in their approach to keeping pets. I accept that. 

I had a coworker who came from Pakistan. Very nice guy and he loved dogs. But where he lived it is unacceptable to bring dogs into the house as they are viewed as "unclean". His dogs always lived on the roof of their house and apparently were fine. 

What you are used to accepting is what you are used to accepting. Doesn't mean I think it's the best thing for the dogs, though yours might well be adapted to living outdoors. If you keep a dog outside he will adapt to the rougher life and won't like being inside a closed in and warm space. You would have a restless and uncomfortable dog (we went through that with our golden, it took a couple years before he became something of an indoor dog). 

My dad was a southerner and he initially had a different idea as to how dogs should be kept. Out on a chain? Fine. Where he lived, that wasn't a huge deal. But owning a golden + having very convincing children who wanted their furry friend close at all times helped change his perspectives on dog ownership. 

Personally speaking, our dogs are members of the family and they are cared for the same way.


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## Bender

To the OP.... goldens are not usually a good 'outside dog' and you should consider letting him sleep inside with his 'family' if at all possible.

If you want to transition him to an outside dog, then start in the summertime so he can grow coat and adjust to the weather naturally. Make sure he's not too thin and has a bit of a layer of fat on him - not obese but a few pounds more than lean.

Make sure the doghouse is just big enough for him, not huge, with some sort of wind/weather break on the door so it's not wind blowing right inside the doghouse. The inside should be a good layer of clean, dry straw and changed every few weeks throughout the winter. You want a THICK layer, like a foot or so of straw in there, so they can bury down into it. Straw will fluff up and hold the heat in better than blankets and pillows, which pack down and then are useless, get smelly and so on.


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## Connor

Megora,

I'm English actually but am now living in Cyprus. Been here for 22 years.

You are right of course, different nationalities have different views with regards to dogs/animals.

When we first moved here it was obvious that dogs in general were viewed with some disdain and regarded as dirty, however I'm pleased to say that the locals attitudes are changing rapidly and I now see clean healthy looking dogs being walked in public places. There are of course cases of cruelty here, just like any other country, but several sanctuaries have been set up at various locations on the island and slowly but surely things are improving. 

In fact there is now a kennel club here associated with the UK club and once a year in Nicosia, the capital, their show attracts a lot of interest.


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## Megora

Connor said:


> Megora,
> 
> I'm English actually but am now living in Cyprus. Been here for 22 years.
> 
> You are right of course, different nationalities have different views with regards to dogs/animals.
> 
> When we first moved here it was obvious that dogs in general were viewed with some disdain and regarded as dirty, however I'm pleased to say that the locals attitudes are changing rapidly and I now see clean healthy looking dogs being walked in public places. There are of course cases of cruelty here, just like any other country, but several sanctuaries have been set up at various locations on the island and slowly but surely things are improving.
> 
> In fact there is now a kennel club here associated with the UK club and once a year in Nicosia, the capital, their show attracts a lot of interest.


I'm so happy to hear this! Sometimes when it comes to other countries I really want to bury my head in the sand rather than think of the culturally accepted way of treating animals. It just hurts to think of any dog being neglected or mistreated. Even on purpose... 

I hope things continue to change.


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## Hali's Mom

Is it strange to anyone besides me that the OP posted the question and then disappeared from the thread? I believe this was a "setup" for disagreement and fortunately it never got heated. Good job fellow golden lovers.
Also, note that he/she just joined this month. Can anyone say "troll?"


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## mdoats

Hali's Mom said:


> Is it strange to anyone besides me that the OP posted the question and then disappeared from the thread? I believe this was a "setup" for disagreement and fortunately it never got heated. Good job fellow golden lovers.
> Also, note that he/she just joined this month. Can anyone say "troll?"


I'll admit, that was my first thought as well. A first post that hits on one of this forum's hot topics is always a bit suspicious to me. I hope I'm wrong.


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## Connor

Well if thats the case.... myself and few others fell for it....KNICKERS...!


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## mos90048

Thank you all for the replies, I Guess I had to give you few facts before you blaming me for putting my dog outside  
we live in California and we have huge backyard secured with 5 feet fence so for the dog security it is safe, another thing we have other two dogs that lives outside doesn’t even thinking for moving inside they prefer to be outside, about Roxy my golden we have a new born in the family and as you know how golden don’t know their sizes and at night he starting to try to see what inside, so my wife and I decided to let him sleep outside while we can’t watch him at night, there is no way I will put him in the house in a crate at night I think that will be more crueler for him, to sleep in a box no matter how big it is. I rather let him sleep free in his dog house with blankets and pillows and his dog house is very clean we wash it every month. and laundry the pillows and blankets every week. my only question was if it too cold 35 to 45 degree for a golden. Thanks again


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## mos90048

Hali's Mom said:


> Is it strange to anyone besides me that the OP posted the question and then disappeared from the thread? I believe this was a "setup" for disagreement and fortunately it never got heated. Good job fellow golden lovers.
> Also, note that he/she just joined this month. Can anyone say "troll?"


Im in California, when i posted this question it was 1:00am my time, and now its 11:00am so i didnt disappeare just went to sleep


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## Megora

That makes a little more sense...

If you are concerned about your dog getting at the baby while you are not watching, keep the baby in the crib, not your bed. It's safer for the baby anyway. And simply give your dog a place to sleep in one of the other rooms in the house and shut the door. You don't necessarily have to crate him or throw him outside. Though if he has dog companions he can snuggle up with, he probably would be OK out there.


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## Ninde'Gold

Well, you got your answer. YES, it is too cold for a Golden Retriever to sleep outside... so what would you like to do about it?

Crating your dog is not cruel. Most of us here do or have done it at one point or another.

Dogs like to think of it as their "den" or "cave".

I tell my Tucker to go in his house and he walks right in freely and lays down. He also goes in there if the vacuum is on because he feels safe.

Please, bring your Golden back inside.


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## Connor

Some time ago I was a bit concerned about the outside temperature for the dogs. It was winter time and pretty nippy.

I got in the kennel along with the dogs to sus it out.

With four Goldens wrapped around me I was as snug as a bug in a rug...!

If your kennel is big enough try it. You might get some funny looks from your wife though...I did...!


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## mos90048

GoldenLover84 said:


> Well, you got your answer. YES, it is too cold for a Golden Retriever to sleep outside... so what would you like to do about it?


Now you sound like my wife  
I guess I will have to see what’s he likes. you be amazed how many times he preferred to sleep outside with the other dogs it isn’t regularly but it happens from time to time he choose to sleep in his dog house outside.


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## Ninde'Gold

mos90048 said:


> Now you sound like my wife
> I guess I will have to see what’s he likes. you be amazed how many times he preferred to sleep outside with the other dogs it isn’t regularly but it happens from time to time he choose to sleep in his dog house outside.



Well, I am in the middle of planning my wedding... I guess I gotta get used to sounding like a wife at some point. :curtain:

If it's warm out, I'm sure it's okay, but Goldens really are a FAMILY dog. They love people. My dog will follow me from room to room just to be with me. Even if I'm just going to the kitchen to grab a snack he'll get up from laying beside me, follow me there, follow me back, then lay down again.

I have a crate I can fit into WITH my dog in it. Perhaps one of those would seem less "cruel"


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## Lilliam

OP - just to bring this up - a 5 foot fence is not nearly high enough to contain a determined, young, healthy dog.

My Dru climbed a seven foot kennel to get to me when I was having trouble penning a sheep and lamb without him. (I was an idiot on several levels.)


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## msdogs1976

mos90048 said:


> Now you sound like my wife
> I guess I will have to see what’s he likes. you be amazed how many times he preferred to sleep outside with the other dogs it isn’t regularly but it happens from time to time he choose to sleep in his dog house outside.


I've told this story before, but here goes. A buddy if mine owned a golden and he kept it outside. Then he married and on the first cold night his wife insisted on bringing the dog in even though he told her the dog was used to it and preferred the outside. But in comes the dog per her request. About half way through the night after 3-4 hours of the dog crying and whining, without saying a word.....she lets the dog outside. End of crying.:

I'm not an advocate of leaving a dog outside as most are not here, but I don't look down on someone who does as long as the dog is well provided for and given plenty of love. As far as what is the lowest temp to leave a dog outside, I really don't know. Around here, the weather guy starts reminding people to provide a warm place for your pet when the temps reach the freezing mark. I would be more conservative and go with a higher temperature though.

Best of luck.


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## mylissyk

A properly built, appropriately sized, insulated dog house can trap quite a bit of body warmth. I went to bring my Beagle in one evening and she was sound asleep in her dog house, I reached in to pet her and realized it was toasty warm inside the dog house. 

I think 35 degrees is too cold to leave a dog outside overnight, in the dark 35 feels a lot colder.


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## FinnTastic

Connor said:


> Finntastic,
> Goldens have varied preferences, just like people. Some goldens I've had prefer to be outside in the garden rather than cooped up in the house.


Finn LOVES being outside. He would be out there all the time, but he needs a person out there with him or he wants to be inside where they are.


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## kathi127

cathyjobray said:


> I agree with everyone, why put your dog outside at night? Goldens are meant to be kept inside. If you don't want him sleeping with you, leave him in a crate.
> 
> Gunner sleeps with me every night. When we first get in bed he lays his head on my shoulder and I wrap my arms around him and hold him as he sleeps. I love holding him. We keep each other warm. Usually after about 10-15 minutes of holding and loving on him he gets warm so he lays down next to me as close as he can get. There is nothing like it.


When we first got Dusty he would not get on the bed no matter how much we coaxed him and told him it was ok. We finally started picking him up and putting him on the bed and telling him "good boy!" and loving all over him. Now, the minute we head for the bedroom at night he runs in and jumps on the bed and lays next to me and we snuggle until he gets a little warm too and then he moves down to the end of the bed. I was so excited the first time he jumped on the bed all by himself, it was like one of the best gifts ever! Our Toy Fox and Jack Russell terriers sleep in bed with us as well, they are like little heaters, their bodies are so warm! I couldn't stand not having my furbabies in bed with me.


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## caparrish1108

Samson has ALWAYS been an outside dog. I've never had an inside dog because we live out in the country. The shedding is best left outside according to my dad when we got him. but 35-45 degrees isn't too bad but any colder and we bring him into our basement with a special section made just for him. Think about it, Goldens are bird dogs, bird dogs sit out from 3am-9am in bitter temperatures along with there gunners. Then they jump in the water to get those birds. That is what a Golden lives for. That's why they have the double coats. So no its not too cold for Goldens outside.


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## Jackson'sMom

My goldens have never "lived for" jumping into icy cold water. My goldens are part of my family and as such live in the house. And I've never heard that just because someone lives in the country, their dogs must live outside. Must be a new rule.


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## Lydia Tomson

I keep my dog Belle inside. However, some goldens prefer being outside and some do not. I think it depends on the dog itself. Dont humanize dogs, some of them are very capable of being outside. As long as they are kept warm and healthy then they will be fine. Dont get me wrong though, I love goldens! Just because a golden isn't kept inside doesn't mean that it isn't a part of the family though.


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## Ranger

Well, after having spent the first 9 months of his life chained outside to a tree, I think I can safely say Ranger is MUCH happier living inside as a valued companion. He adapted to living in a house (house-breaking, walking on carpet/linoleum, crate training, figuring out stairs, etc) within days. He certainly shows no willingness or wanting to go back to sleeping outside. If I did put him outside for a night, I'm sure he wouldn't bark or whine. He'd be upset and lonely but he'd go make himself as comfortable as possible without fussing. Just because dogs are quiet outside, doesn't mean they're happy.


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## Lydia Tomson

FinnTastic said:


> Goldens are people dogs and would prefer to be with people than outside by themselves... IMO
> Finn doesn't like to be outside without a person there with him.


You cannot classify EVERY golden as a people dog. They are great breeds and are great family pets IF you train them to like and enjoy the company of people. Some are born to want to be with people others arent again, it all depends on the dog!


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## FinnTastic

Again, that is why I said IMO. I'm pretty sure that is part of the characteristic of the breed. I could be wrong on that matter since I haven't looked at the standard for temperment and all that good stuff.


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## kathi127

Jackson'sMom said:


> My goldens have never "lived for" jumping into icy cold water. My goldens are part of my family and as such live in the house. And I've never heard that just because someone lives in the country, their dogs must live outside. Must be a new rule.


My 83 yr. old mother lives out in the country and has a Chow/Lab mix and he is very happy living inside with her. In fact, he does not let her out of his sight.


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## kathi127

caparrish1108 said:


> Samson has ALWAYS been an outside dog. I've never had an inside dog because we live out in the country. The shedding is best left outside according to my dad when we got him. but 35-45 degrees isn't too bad but any colder and we bring him into our basement with a special section made just for him. Think about it, Goldens are bird dogs, bird dogs sit out from 3am-9am in bitter temperatures along with there gunners. Then they jump in the water to get those birds. That is what a Golden lives for. That's why they have the double coats. So no its not too cold for Goldens outside.


I'm just curious, since Samson is an outside dog and when he is allowed inside he is banished to the basement, is he ever allowed interaction with the family? I just can't imagine not ever having my dogs inside with me and being part of my family.


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## FlyingQuizini

With proper shelter, a dog can survive outside, but I guess the question is, do you own a dog or a companion animal? And if it's a companion animal, why put him outside at night? Like others have said, he doesn't have to be in your bed, or even your room if you prefer that to be a dog-free zone, but residing in the house is a wonderful thing for a companion animal.


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## TomCat'sGirl

How about this who's ever concerend about wether its to cold or not put a "double coat* on and sleep outside for a few nights at 35-40 degress or just crawl in the fridge for that matter and then decide!

On that note  

Everybody has an opinion just do what *you* think is right for *your* dog and *your* family.


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## kira

I won't comment on whether or not a dog should be left outside at night, because plenty of people already had and there are obviously quite a few factors other than the temperature. 

As far as temp goes, no, I don't believe that 35-45 degrees is too cold, as long as the dog has proper shelter. I have done a lot of camping with Murphy, the coldest being significantly below freezing. He was just 5 months old that time and spent most of the night sprawled against the tent wall, despite my every effort to get him in my sleeping bag. I also work at a ski area, and he usually snoozes in my car for a part of the day while I'm working. I don't worry about him getting cold until it's at least below freezing. 

I'm not an expert though and this is purely my opinion based on my experience with my dog.

Who sleeps with me under the covers with his head on the pillow.


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## AlanK

Before my boy decided to come live with me he lived on a farm for 2 years. He spent his nights sleeping on the porch I guess. The Georgia winter Temps frequently dip below freezing and he survived fine. 

He left his farm home to come live with me because I took up a lot of time with him when he visited. He was free to roam the several hundred acres of fields and forest around here.

He has become accustomed to the climate controlled house now and would prefer sleeping inside with his people. 

As stated earlier "With proper shelter, a dog can survive outside, but I guess the question is, do you own a dog or a companion animal?" I agree with this.


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## mos90048

kira said:


> I won't comment on whether or not a dog should be left outside at night, because plenty of people already had and there are obviously quite a few factors other than the temperature.
> 
> As far as temp goes, no, I don't believe that 35-45 degrees is too cold, as long as the dog has proper shelter. I have done a lot of camping with Murphy, the coldest being significantly below freezing. He was just 5 months old that time and spent most of the night sprawled against the tent wall, despite my every effort to get him in my sleeping bag. I also work at a ski area, and he usually snoozes in my car for a part of the day while I'm working. I don't worry about him getting cold until it's at least below freezing.
> 
> I'm not an expert though and this is purely my opinion based on my experience with my dog.
> 
> Who sleeps with me under the covers with his head on the pillow.


Thank you Kira. too many people gave all the opinions about staying inside or outside, and I’m appreciated that but only few answer my question about the temperature, I know my dog is an happy dog we do so much thing tougher, so I know how good we are taking care of him. and your answer just explain me that with the appropriate warming he can sleep outside in that temperature. thanks again.


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## Lilliam

Lydia Tomson said:


> You cannot classify EVERY golden as a people dog. They are great breeds and are great family pets IF you train them to like and enjoy the company of people. Some are born to want to be with people others arent again, it all depends on the dog!


Greatly disagree with the premise that goldens need to be trained to like and enjoy the company of people. While Max is my first, I've researched the breed enough to know that they are extremely people oriented.

Just because they adjust to being outside doesn't mean that's where they would choose to be. I find the idea of having a dog sleep away from his family repugnant. My hackles are instantly raised when I think of a family under blankets, in a warm home, and the dog shivering outside.

I would rather humanise the dog than treat it like a throw away thing that gets in your way. Why keep him at all?


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## ggdenny

Goldens are very social dogs and want to be with their family ALL the time. It's cruel to make them sleep outside alone, and I think unsafe.

And, I feel confident in saying that ALL goldens are people dogs. Even goldens that I have rescued or transported for the rescue are extremely people-oriented, despite some having had bad experiences with people.


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## Lilliam

mos90048 said:


> Thank you Kira. too many people gave all the opinions about staying inside or outside, and I’m appreciated that but only few answer my question about the temperature, I know my dog is an happy dog we do so much thing tougher, so I know how good we are taking care of him. and your answer just explain me that with the appropriate warming he can sleep outside in that temperature. thanks again.


You're missing an important nuance - she's describing camping with the dog and sleeping in a tent with the dog. You missed the last line where she describes sleeping *with* the dog, under blankets.

Wholly diFferent than putting a dog out at night, all alone, while the family is toasty inside.


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## FlyingQuizini

Just curious... is there a particular reason why you now wish for the dog to sleep outside at night? Are you transitioning him into being an outdoor dog?

Most people here (myself included) agree that companion animals do much, much better when allowed to spend their down-time inside as part of the family. Doesn't mean the dog has to be indoors all the time, or have free run of the house, but being inside is an important part of making the dog part of the family --- and is, for most people, one of the most enjoyable parts of sharing life with a dog.


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## lgnutah

I think the OP was asking about the dog tolerating temperatures of 35-45. He wasn't asking our opinions about separating his dog from the family during the night.

So, to answer the temperature only question, I would say, if a dog is slowly acclimated to tolerate nightime temperatures that range from 35-45 degrees, he will do better than if he has been living, day and night, at 68 degrees, and is suddenly is put outdoors for the night when it is 35-45 degrees. 

If anyone remembers, there was a thread about temperature at night (inside the home) and many of us reported enjoying nightime temperatures that ranged down to 50 degrees and some kept the windows open all night despite living in a wintry climate.


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## Lilliam

Yup, I like cooler temps....at home, with the hubby, and surrounded by three dogs, three cats, three personal ferrets and five "foster" ferrets....one incoRrigible biter, two geriatric, one with insulinoma, and one boisterous adolescent....yah, right....fosters...


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## ggdenny

This is and should be a place where people can express their opinions, whether it's on point or somewhat tangential to the point. We're all golden lovers here and that passion is always on display, and should be expressed in civil and appropriate ways.


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## GoldenJoy

Someone asked earlier if dogs that sleep/live outside ever have interaction with their families. I think it depends on the family! I come from a farm town where dogs WORK, live, and sleep outside, and many family members are outside for most of the day. One of the happiest dogs I ever knew was a farm dog who spent his entire life outdoors, doing his actual work and then "helping" with the other chores! In those situations, the folks I knew made sure that their dogs had proper living conditions outside, just like the livestock.  Of course, that's very different than having a dog who lives outside and gets only occasional visits from people. Still, I always hate to hear "There's no such thing as an outside dog." I think a lot if "inside dogs" aren't exactly living great lives - overfed, undertrained, under-exercised, and BORED! Just had to throw my hometown farmer-type two cents in.....


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## OrdinaryEllen

*My two cents*

I don't believe that temps of 35 to 45 degrees will in any way be harmful to your dog. This is a separate issue as to whether you keep your dog inside with the family.

Example: About two weeks ago, it was the middle of the afternoon, 29 degrees and Piper was hopping to go outside on the deck. I let him out. It began to snow like crazy. I went to the window to check on Piper and couldn't spot him. I went to a better spot and found him, stretched out on the deck, with snow accumulating on him. I opened the door to let him in, he raised his head, looked at me and closed his eyes to go back to sleep. :uhoh:

When he finally wanted to come inside, he had about a fourth of an inch accumlation of snow on him. I wiped it off with a towel and he seemed uphappy. Maybe some of our dogs are different because Piper was happy as a clam when he was outside, 29 degrees and snowing.


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## grcharlie

Lilliam said:


> Greatly disagree with the premise that goldens need to be trained to like and enjoy the company of people. While Max is my first, I've researched the breed enough to know that they are extremely people oriented.
> 
> Just because they adjust to being outside doesn't mean that's where they would choose to be. I find the idea of having a dog sleep away from his family repugnant. My hackles are instantly raised when I think of a family under blankets, in a warm home, and the dog shivering outside.
> 
> I would rather humanise the dog than treat it like a throw away thing that gets in your way. Why keep him at all?


Hy hackles are also raised. I have been holding back on replying because of what I may say. I know I would NOT have my dogs sleeping outside. I have a neighbor that keeps her two Goldens outside year round. To be honest I rather she sleeps outside then the dogs. She is a nice person but really these dogs could have a better life.


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## BayBeams

My dogs would never sleep outside but to answer the OPs question 35 degrees is too cold especially for us California people and dogs. Because the temperatures here in CA are mostly moderate to hot our dogs and people are not acclimated to cold temperatures. The dogs' coats never get a chance to develop a thick undercoat to keep them warm in cold temperatures. This time of year CA has all sorts of extremes from hot hot hot to very cold and lately even with snow in unheard of places. Usually when it is that cold here there is also the accompanying high winds.
Sorry, but as a fellow Californian it is just too cold to leave a Golden outside in 35 degree temperature.


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## caparrish1108

GoldenJoy said:


> Someone asked earlier if dogs that sleep/live outside ever have interaction with their families. I think it depends on the family! I come from a farm town where dogs WORK, live, and sleep outside, and many family members are outside for most of the day. One of the happiest dogs I ever knew was a farm dog who spent his entire life outdoors, doing his actual work and then "helping" with the other chores! In those situations, the folks I knew made sure that their dogs had proper living conditions outside, just like the livestock.  Of course, that's very different than having a dog who lives outside and gets only occasional visits from people. Still, I always hate to hear "There's no such thing as an outside dog." I think a lot if "inside dogs" aren't exactly living great lives - overfed, undertrained, under-exercised, and BORED! Just had to throw my hometown farmer-type two cents in.....



The question was posed to me about whether or not Samson interacts with the family because he is an outside dog. As for the phrase "banished to the basement" he is not banished. It is not as if we throw him under there as punishment or something. He has a VERY nice pen that I built from Oak 2X4's and Horse Fencing, Cedar chips, plenty of room to walk around and get his food and water. and it a place for him to stay warm at night when temperatures do dip below freezing. When Sam is outside he lives in a pen that I also built that is about 25 feet by 15 feet. It is made of very nice quality wood and horse fencing. He has a small 7 feet by 7 feet deck that holds his house and food and water. Under the deck is plenty of room for him to stay cool(he has dug himself several holes to lay in, and the Deck itself is covered in a tented clear plastic to keep him cool and provides protection from the rain.

My family treats Samson as another member of the family just like everyone else talks about but we weren't to crazy about him being inside with all the shedding and what not. To be honest I would hate for him to live in our house because there would be too many restrictions for him. When not in his pen in the basement or outside in his pen he is allowed to freely roam wherever he wants to go. THAT is what I meant by saying I live in the country and he lives outside. I never said that because we lived in the country he had to be outside. He is with us at all times because we are outside with him. He just happens to sleep outside. He occasionally comes in, but not often. 

So anyone who judges me for having Sam as an outside dog think twice about what the situations may be before you do so. I love Samson and do everything in my power to make sure he has everything he needs. I look forward to him being clean and living inside with me and my fiancee when we move this summer, but don't think i'm a bad person for having him live outside for the first part of his life. I agree with Golden joy in that "inside dogs" aren't exactly living great lives - overfed, undertrained, under-exercised, and BORED!


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## Megora

Hmmm.... I'm really worried about the happiness level of my overfed, undertrained, under-exercised, and BORED indoor golden retriever.

As you can see in my avatar and his birthday picture as well as most pictures I've taken, he's obviously living a miserable existence, because he's never alone (dogs need some quality alone time, yanno) and he is secretly dismayed and disgusted that his owner gave him his own pillow on her bed to sleep on. He would seriously prefer the privacy of the barnyard to sleep in the healthy clean dirt like his ancestors did. Because even though his owner feels he was bred to be an indoor dog and even went as far as signing a puppy contract that says he is to be an indoor dog, he knows better. His ancestors lived outside like decent honest-bred gentlemen dogs in a fenced in enclosure where they only got particular attention when it was time to breed or hunt, at least according to the owner who hated the Lassie movies for that reason. 



*You can tell I've been staring at craigslist and lost golden ads too long tonight, and I'm being flippant.


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## Florabora22

I know when I went camping last winter in Florida it dropped down to like... 30 degrees. I woke up in the middle of the night to my dog Flora curled up in the tightest ball pressing her body against mine. I had to share my sleeping bag with her to keep her warm. So IMO, anything below freezing is not appropriate sleeping weather for an animal that's not accustomed to it.


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## booklady

Even more than the cold I would be concerned with coyotes, raccoons, possums, skunks and the occasional black bear. Where I live (and it's in a town) all of the above can show up inside a well constructed fence and they all can do serious damage to a dog.


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## GoldenJoy

Just for the record (I didn't mean to offend anyone here - I KNOW you all take excellent care of your furry family members!!!!!!!) I NEVER meant to imply that inside dogs are inherently overfed, undertrained, underexercised, and bored.  I just think that we ALL know dogs like that! I hope my point wasn't offensive - I just wanted to stick up for all the WONDERFUL farm families I know who diligently and lovingly care for dogs who happen to live outside.


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## Megora

GoldenJoy said:


> Just for the record (I didn't mean to offend anyone here - I KNOW you all take excellent care of your furry family members!!!!!!!) I NEVER meant to imply that inside dogs are inherently overfed, undertrained, underexercised, and bored.  I just think that we ALL know dogs like that! I hope my point wasn't offensive - I just wanted to stick up for all the WONDERFUL farm families I know who diligently and lovingly care for dogs who happen to live outside.


But keep in mind that not all farm families keep their dogs outdoors or locked in barns. If they are total dog people. 

My "barn" lady has three german shepherds, two of them being great big white ones. She also usually has a shi-tzu or another small dog. And most times she has some of her grandkids dogs hanging around too. So sometimes she has five dogs inside her small house with her and her hub. 

She has the opinion that horses absolutely need to be outside as much possible. Same thing with the cows that she sometimes raises for meat. But her dogs are rarely outside unless she is too. They all know how to behave indoors because they were raised and trained to be indoor dogs and her answer to any fears about dog hair (short haired shepherds shed a lot more than goldens) would be handing you a broom and dog brush and showing you how to use both items. 

I mean no offense to you or anyone else, but not all farm or country people believe in keeping the dogs outside the home.


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## Lilliam

caparrish1108 said:


> The question was posed to me about whether or not Samson interacts with the family because he is an outside dog. As for the phrase "banished to the basement" he is not banished. It is not as if we throw him under there as punishment or something. He has a VERY nice pen that I built from Oak 2X4's and Horse Fencing, Cedar chips, plenty of room to walk around and get his food and water. and it a place for him to stay warm at night when temperatures do dip below freezing. When Sam is outside he lives in a pen that I also built that is about 25 feet by 15 feet. It is made of very nice quality wood and horse fencing. He has a small 7 feet by 7 feet deck that holds his house and food and water. Under the deck is plenty of room for him to stay cool(he has dug himself several holes to lay in, and the Deck itself is covered in a tented clear plastic to keep him cool and provides protection from the rain.
> 
> My family treats Samson as another member of the family just like everyone else talks about but we weren't to crazy about him being inside with all the shedding and what not. To be honest I would hate for him to live in our house because there would be too many restrictions for him. When not in his pen in the basement or outside in his pen he is allowed to freely roam wherever he wants to go. THAT is what I meant by saying I live in the country and he lives outside. I never said that because we lived in the country he had to be outside. He is with us at all times because we are outside with him. He just happens to sleep outside. He occasionally comes in, but not often.
> 
> So anyone who judges me for having Sam as an outside dog think twice about what the situations may be before you do so. I love Samson and do everything in my power to make sure he has everything he needs. I look forward to him being clean and living inside with me and my fiancee when we move this summer, but don't think i'm a bad person for having him live outside for the first part of his life. I agree with Golden joy in that "inside dogs" aren't exactly living great lives - overfed, undertrained, under-exercised, and BORED!


What you describe in the first paragraph is you BASIC REQUIREMENT as an owner, to provide shelter, clean food and water. No kudos for that. I would detract points because your dog lives in an enclosure, whether in a basement (a basement? really?!?!?!?) or outside. 

In the second paragraph you express distaste for his shedding. 1) You shed. 2) Goldens shed. Did you not research that? I agree that he would be unhappy living inside with you - I agree. Any animal whose owners would find his existance so distasteful over something he can't control (shedding) woud be unhappy. By the way, there is an easy way to control shedding - it's called brushing. But that's icky and distasteful because you actually have to touch the dog....

Further in the second paraghraph you describe the joys of life outside of confinement and it's described as free roaming wherever he wants to go....to encounter whatever is out there in the great big woods....and since you give no indication of actually having trained this animal, he just fends for himself. And this is acceptable?

So yeah - personally I find it distasteful to read abouit a golden retriever living in an enclosure like a wild animal or relegated to a basement because she sheds. And my poor, overfed, bored dogs spend their evenings with overfed, bored me.....as a matter of fact, Max is stretched alongside me right now.....shedding to his heart's content.

And he looks pretty blissful about it.


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## Lilliam

GoldenJoy said:


> Just for the record (I didn't mean to offend anyone here - I KNOW you all take excellent care of your furry family members!!!!!!!) I NEVER meant to imply that inside dogs are inherently overfed, undertrained, underexercised, and bored.  I just think that we ALL know dogs like that! I hope my point wasn't offensive - I just wanted to stick up for all the WONDERFUL farm families I know who diligently and lovingly care for dogs who happen to live outside.


Since I have two border collies and have lived with four, I can say I'm particularly well equipped to discuss farms and treatment of working dogs. Contrary to popular opinion, working dogs are not all chained to a tractor and left to their own devices. They're iin the house, possibly in a crate, but generally speaking in the house with the owners. These dogs are as valuable to them as any piece of machinery they might have. Perhaps more. Because a lot of these ranchers depend on these dogs to do work that would take much too long for them to do.

The only dog I have consistently seen outside are flock guard dogs. Akbash, Great Pyranees, Anatolian Shepherds. These dogs have a very important job on a farm or a ranch, to guard the livestock.


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## Kally76

I would like to add one little thing. I'm not really involved in this conversation in anyway but I feel as though I need to defend myself a little. I am in one of those "farm families" everyone keeps referring to. I live on a working farm. Our dogs are with us outside all day long, and when the work day is over they sleep *inside* with the rest of us at night.


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## Lydia Tomson

Lilliam said:


> Greatly disagree with the premise that goldens need to be trained to like and enjoy the company of people. While Max is my first, I've researched the breed enough to know that they are extremely people oriented.
> 
> Just because they adjust to being outside doesn't mean that's where they would choose to be. I find the idea of having a dog sleep away from his family repugnant. My hackles are instantly raised when I think of a family under blankets, in a warm home, and the dog shivering outside.
> 
> I would rather humanise the dog than treat it like a throw away thing that gets in your way. Why keep him at all?


This dog owner is NOT throwing her dog away! She is simply letting her dog sleep outside at night! You cant assume that this dog is miserable just because it spends a few hours a day sleeping out there. I have met a few goldens that dont like people, but I've met a lot that cant stand to be without people. It depends on the training, the socialization and the personality of the dog. And besides sometimes--depending on where you live--the temperature outside is healthier for the dog. Goldens were bred to hunt in water, freezing water! Just because most dont hunt now, doesn't mean that they dont still have the same characteristics as their ancestors. If I said that every golden needs to be trained to behaviour properly I apologize because that is incorrect.


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## Jackson'sMom

I greatly resent being informed that because my dogs stay in the house they "aren't exactly living great lives - overfed, undertrained, under-exercised, and BORED!" My dogs are exercised every day, they are NOT overfed, undertrained, under-exercised or bored. 

How dare anybody make such a broad, unfounded, demeaning and FALSE statement about all the forum members who care about their dogs' psychological and physical health.


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## Enzos_Mom

I would think that the general rule of thumb as far as letting your dog sleep outside in the cold is that if you feel unsure enough that you have to ask, it's probably too cold. I know you don't care to hear our opinions on this, but I also agree that the dog would be better off inside. If not for the companionship of the family, then at LEAST to be sure that the dog isn't getting loose, getting into something that is unsafe or being attacked by any animals/insects that may find their way into your yard. My dog could jump a 5 foot fence EASILY. I used to have a GSD as a child that would climb up our 6 foot privacy fence and hook her elbows over the top so that she could watch me walk home from the bus stop. And before you say that you dog has been trained not to jump the fence or they've never tried before, there's always the chance that one time something will pass by that looks interesting and your dog will go after it. I wouldn't risk it for your golden OR your other dogs.


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## Lydia Tomson

Jackson'sMom said:


> I greatly resent being informed that because my dogs stay in the house they "aren't exactly living great lives - overfed, undertrained, under-exercised, and BORED!" My dogs are exercised every day, they are NOT overfed, undertrained, under-exercised or bored.
> 
> How dare anybody make such a broad, unfounded, demeaning and FALSE statement about all the forum members who care about their dogs' psychological and physical health.


Who said that? Because I definitely don't think that dogs that stay in the house are unhappy!


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## Kelmel

I think it totally depends on the golden and the circumstances. For me, I would worry if I had mine outside and unattended. If it were up to my Morgan, she would much prefer she did sleep outside. She spends a lot of time outside during the day because she loves it. She will stand at the back door wanting to go out for ages until you let her, then she doesn't want to come back in and has to be coaxed with treats, toys, praise, etc. It is quite possible that the golden is fine with sleeping outside and may prefer it. Of course, if he stands at the door to come in and no one lets him, that is too cruel regardless of whether you live in the city, country or somewhere in between.


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## caparrish1108

Lilliam said:


> What you describe in the first paragraph is you BASIC REQUIREMENT as an owner, to provide shelter, clean food and water. No kudos for that. I would detract points because your dog lives in an enclosure, whether in a basement (a basement? really?!?!?!?) or outside.
> 
> In the second paragraph you express distaste for his shedding. 1) You shed. 2) Goldens shed. Did you not research that? I agree that he would be unhappy living inside with you - I agree. Any animal whose owners would find his existance so distasteful over something he can't control (shedding) woud be unhappy. By the way, there is an easy way to control shedding - it's called brushing. But that's icky and distasteful because you actually have to touch the dog....
> 
> Further in the second paraghraph you describe the joys of life outside of confinement and it's described as free roaming wherever he wants to go....to encounter whatever is out there in the great big woods....and since you give no indication of actually having trained this animal, he just fends for himself. And this is acceptable?
> 
> So yeah - personally I find it distasteful to read abouit a golden retriever living in an enclosure like a wild animal or relegated to a basement because she sheds. And my poor, overfed, bored dogs spend their evenings with overfed, bored me.....as a matter of fact, Max is stretched alongside me right now.....shedding to his heart's content.
> 
> And he looks pretty blissful about it.


How can you berate me for circumstances that you are so clearly ignorant about. You do not know what type of house I have, What kind of basement he sleeps in, and I do know that those are basic requirements for my pup but my point was that I have provided the best I have to offer. 

Secondly, I did research the breed. I did know that they shed. and I DO brush samson EVERY SINGLE DAY. I do not think it is icky to touch my dog. I also did my research that Goldens love to run and swim. So I decided that he should be able to run and swim all he wants. Unfortunately I do not have a track or pool in my house. So I let him stay outside. and he loves it. 

Also, Do I have to give indication that he is trained. Doesn't every responsible dog owner train their dog. Just because I didn't tell you Samson was trained doesn't mean he isn't. He comes when he is called no matter how far away he is in the woods. There are several dogs that live around us and he goes and plays with them. They come over and play here. As for fending for himself he does a pretty **** good job of it. He's lived 5 years outside and he's thriving like a dog should. 

I never made a broad statement about how living in a house was bad for dogs. I never said anything to ridicule anyone for treating their dog like a person as many of you do. I wish I could have done that. BUT my dad did not want a dog in the house. He does pay the mortgage so he makes the rules. I was the one attacked for my comments on the original question of this thread that has so clearly been ignored long before my post. So I would appreciate if you could BACK OFF.


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## Sweet Girl

caparrish1108 said:


> My family treats Samson as another member of the family just like everyone else talks about but *we weren't to crazy about him being inside with all the shedding and what not. To be honest I would hate for him to live in our house because there would be too many restrictions for him.* When not in his pen in the basement or outside in his pen he is allowed to freely roam wherever he wants to go. THAT is what I meant by saying I live in the country and he lives outside. I never said that because we lived in the country he had to be outside. He is with us at all times because we are outside with him. He just happens to sleep outside. He occasionally comes in, but not often.


But, um, didn't you realize that dogs have fur? And that Goldens have a lot of fur? Why did you get a Golden if you weren't too crazy about shedding? Why not a poodle?



caparrish1108 said:


> So anyone who judges me for having Sam as an outside dog think twice about what the situations may be before you do so. ... I agree with Golden joy in that "inside dogs" aren't exactly living great lives - overfed, undertrained, under-exercised, and BORED!


Didn't you just judge all of us who have indoor dogs? I'm one of them. My 10-year-old lives in my house, and she sleeps on my bed, and on my couches. She also just had a vet appointment where the vet proclaimed her to be one of the healthiest, fittest 10 year olds she has ever seen. My dog runs and plays every single day. She goes on long hikes every weekend, and swims everyday in the summer. I take her to play ball before work everyday, or for a walk, and she gets an hour+ out with her walker and dog pals romping in the parks around the city everyday. She is in not one single iota of a way overfed (slim, trim 55 pounds, thank you very much), undertrained (knows all her commands - practices them everyday - and still has to sit like a lady when I put down her food and wait for me to tell her to go ahead), under-exercised (see above) or BORED (she is so tired from all the exercise, all she does is sleep mostly. But when she does feel like playing, she just heads for the basket of toys and bones).


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## Enzos_Mom

caparrish1108 said:


> I also did my research that Goldens love to run and swim. So I decided that he should be able to run and swim all he wants. Unfortunately I do not have a track or pool in my house. So I let him stay outside. and he loves it.


Just curious, how big of an area does Samson have to run/swim in?? Is your yard fenced or is it just open for him to roam as he pleases??


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## caparrish1108

Samson has about 20 acres to roam and a 2 acre pond to swim in. There are no fences apart from his 25' X 15' pen that he sleeps in in warm weather and his inside pen when its cold.


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## Enzos_Mom

caparrish1108 said:


> Samson has about 20 acres to roam and a 2 acre pond to swim in. There are no fences apart from his 25' X 15' pen that he sleeps in in warm weather and his inside pen when its cold.



Ok, THAT would make me nervous. :uhoh: If he was injured somehow while out roaming, how would even know where to look??


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## mdoats

Somehow, every single one of these indoor/outdoor dog threads turns ugly. I'm still not convinced this wasn't a case of someone joining, starting a thread on a controversial issue, and then sitting back to watch it get ugly.


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## caparrish1108

Sweet Girl said:


> But, um, didn't you realize that dogs have fur? And that Goldens have a lot of fur? Why did you get a Golden if you weren't too crazy about shedding? Why not a poodle?
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't you just judge all of us who have indoor dogs? I'm one of them. My 10-year-old lives in my house, and she sleeps on my bed, and on my couches. She also just had a vet appointment where the vet proclaimed her to be one of the healthiest, fittest 10 year olds she has ever seen. My dog runs and plays every single day. She goes on long hikes every weekend, and swims everyday in the summer. I take her to play ball before work everyday, or for a walk, and she gets an hour+ out with her walker and dog pals romping in the parks around the city everyday. She is in not one single iota of a way overfed (slim, trim 55 pounds, thank you very much), undertrained (knows all her commands - practices them everyday - and still has to sit like a lady when I put down her food and wait for me to tell her to go ahead), under-exercised (see above) or BORED (she is so tired from all the exercise, all she does is sleep mostly. But when she does feel like playing, she just heads for the basket of toys and bones).




The reason we got a Golden was because of their friendliness and loyalty. We knew about the shedding and because the plan was to keep him outside the shedding was not a big deal. I still brush him all the time though. 
As for the judgment I mistyped what I meant to say. I meant to say that they can be all of those things. not that all of them were.


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## caparrish1108

Enzos_Mom said:


> Ok, THAT would make me nervous. :uhoh: If he was injured somehow while out roaming, how would even know where to look??


Because I am 22 years old and have roamed the same land he is roaming for the past 18 years or so. Maybe it makes you nervous because you don't trust your dog. I trust mine. He always comes back.


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## Enzos_Mom

caparrish1108 said:


> He always comes back.



He may always come back when he's able to, but what if something happens to him and he can't come back?? That's just a bigger risk than I'd be willing to take.


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## caparrish1108

Enzos_Mom said:


> He may always come back when he's able to, but what if something happens to him and he can't come back?? That's just a bigger risk than I'd be willing to take.



What if you were in a fatal car accident tomorrow? Does that stop you from driving? What if a gunman comes into the bank and unloads on everyone? Does that stop you from going to the bank? 

Life is full of risks...I figure take the risks into account but if you are afraid if letting a dog run then you probably have bigger problems to deal with.


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## Enzos_Mom

Oh, okay, you're totally right. When I have small children, I think I'll just tell them to walk themselves the 3 miles to the closest playground because kids LOVE to play on playgrounds. Sure, they might get hit by a car on the way there, or get snatched off the street by somebody, but that's a risk that I'm willing to take because they'll have LOADS of fun on the playground. 

My point is that domesticated dogs depend on you for their survival, so it's YOUR job to make sure that they're safe at all times. You can't be sure that your dog is safe while he's out roaming 20 acres on his own. But you obviously aren't able to acknowledge that anybody here may have a legitimate concern, so arguing with you is pointless.


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## Megora

> BUT my dad did not want a dog in the house.


My dad was the same way at one point.... his deal about the dog fur was that it caused him to have seasonal allergies or whatever. If he had a headache or his eyes were burning, it was from the dog fur. <-And Charmer did not shed all that much.

I have three sisters and two brothers. We were a unified sneaky front and we all outnumbered him.  

Truth be told, my dad loved that dog - especially after we won and he became an indoor dog. In the evenings when my dad would be sitting there smoking his cigar in his comfy chair while shuffling his papers from work, Charmer would choose to sit or lay right next to him or prop his head on the the armrest and just watch my dad. 

When Charmer went to the vet the last day, my dad rushed home from work and sat there holding the leash and holding him. And my dad cried his eyes out. 

/reminiscing

My golden would not defend himself if a coyote (keep in mind I spotted three of them scavenging along the main road just three miles away from my home) came onto our property and attacked him. Part of that is training, as I do not want any of my dogs showing aggression towards other dogs, even posturing. Part of that is he does have an ideal golden temperament. He has never growled. I don't think he knows how. The one time an outdoor dog in my neighbood leapt his fence and ran out to attack Jacks, he just stood there and looked confused. I had to be there to kick that dog off mine. 

The sad thing was watching that dog run crying up to his house. I had to take Jacks home then I had to go back to make sure he was tucked in the garage, as his owners were not home. They were not around to keep their dog from attacking other dogs, nor were they there to protect their dog from getting hurt. If that dog wasn't afraid of people kicking him before, he was afterward. And I would do it again, particularly as I know of other cases from my sister's neighborhood where owners had to spend upwards (and I mean way upwards) of a $1000 to save their chihuahua's life after he was attacked by an outdoor dog (lab) who got loose. The chihuahua had been just about skinned by the lab and he had puncture wounds into his neck and his stomach. Again, the owner of the outdoor dog was not at home and could not prevent their dog from attacking the other dog. They had to pay up, I think, though they could only offer a fraction of the vet expenses. They still leave the lab outside, because he is not trained enough to be an indoor dog when they aren't home. The dog doesn't know how to behave inside the house. 

More to the point, I don't trust the people around where I live. I think I've mentioned before that my mom happened to look out her window to see some kids who live in the area chasing our cat (who was then only 6 or 7 months old and had been outgoing and friendly) with sticks. She screamed at them and they went running off, but ever since our cat has been terrified of strangers to the point where he needed prozac if anybody visited the house.


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## caparrish1108

Enzos_Mom said:


> Oh, okay, you're totally right. When I have small children, I think I'll just tell them to walk themselves the 3 miles to the closest playground because kids LOVE to play on playgrounds. Sure, they might get hit by a car on the way there, or get snatched off the street by somebody, but that's a risk that I'm willing to take because they'll have LOADS of fun on the playground.
> 
> My point is that domesticated dogs depend on you for their survival, so it's YOUR job to make sure that they're safe at all times. You can't be sure that your dog is safe while he's out roaming 20 acres on his own. But you obviously aren't able to acknowledge that anybody here may have a legitimate concern, so arguing with you is pointless.



NO thats not what i said
in your little scenario you would be sending your kids to a playground somewhere else that it not your home. My 20 acres is all mine, and I can make sure he is ok when he is roaming. A little child cannot fend for themselves, Samson can and has for the past 5 years. A baby knows their limits just like Samson knows his. If you take notice that a child learns to scoot, crawl, toddle, walk, and then run. Sam also went through steps in learning to take care of himself. Through experience and training Sam stayed by my heels when he was a puppy, then then stayed close to the house but explored out a bit, and then he learned his way around and explored further out. I didn't just chuck him out into the wild. He is my dog so you are right about arguing being pointless.


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## caparrish1108

Megora said:


> I have three sisters and two brothers. We were a unified sneaky front and we all outnumbered him.
> 
> 
> My golden would not defend himself if a coyote (keep in mind I spotted three of them scavenging along the main road just three miles away from my home) came onto our property and attacked him. Part of that is training, as I do not want any of my dogs showing aggression towards other dogs, even posturing. Part of that is he does have an ideal golden temperament. He has never growled. I don't think he knows how. The one time an outdoor dog in my neighbood leapt his fence and ran out to attack Jacks, he just stood there and looked confused. I had to be there to kick that dog off mine.
> 
> More to the point, I don't trust the people around where I live. I think I've mentioned before that my mom happened to look out her window to see some kids who live in the area chasing our cat (who was then only 6 or 7 months old and had been outgoing and friendly) with sticks. She screamed at them and they went running off, but ever since our cat has been terrified of strangers to the point where he needed prozac if anybody visited the house.


 
First, I was the only one at home with my parents so no luck in outnumbering them. And second your dog sounds like a ***** if it can't defend itself. and if you trained to to not defend itself then you are to blame. Samson can defend himself very easily (kicked a pit bulls *** once) but will lay next to my 2 year old nephew and not growl or anything. So that may say something about your handling. Lastly I never said i didn't trust my neighbors so don't make generalizations based on your life. 

Oh and cats suck


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## Mssjnnfer

caparrish1108 said:


> First, I was the only one at home with my parents so no luck in outnumbering them. And second your dog sounds like a ***** if it can't defend itself. and if you trained to to not defend itself then you are to blame. Samson can defend himself very easily (kicked a pit bulls *** once) but will lay next to my 2 year old nephew and not growl or anything. So that may say something about your handling. Lastly I never said i didn't trust my neighbors so don't make generalizations based on your life.
> 
> Oh and cats suck


Am I the only one that thinks this person needs a nice banning? Seriously. We have rules here at GRF, including swearing.


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## caparrish1108

Mssjnnfer said:


> Am I the only one that thinks this person needs a nice banning? Seriously. We have rules here at GRF, including swearing.


What curse words did i use? I'm pretty sure the words I used are acceptable. I didn't drop the f bomb, could have but didn't. That's the only one that is that offensive


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## Mssjnnfer

This is a family forum. I'm pretty sure I don't need to point out the other curse words in your post.


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## Megora

Mssjnnfer said:


> Am I the only one that thinks this person needs a nice banning? Seriously. We have rules here at GRF, including swearing.


Honestly... that last post made me wonder if the person is actually a ten year old child. Similar to the ones who thought it was fun chasing a half grown cat and torturing him - simply because "cat's suck".

FWIW - goldens are not supposed to be dog aggressive. Read up on the breed.


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## caparrish1108

Mssjnnfer said:


> This is a family forum. I'm pretty sure I don't need to point out the other curse words in your post.



give me a break those aren't curse words. 

If it makes you feel better I'll say that her dog is a pansy, and that my dog took the pit bull's lunch money, does that help at all.


Oh and Cats suck (suck is not a curse word)


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## caparrish1108

Megora said:


> Honestly... that last post made me wonder if the person is actually a ten year old child.



and as far as I know you are a child pornography collector looking for their next victim. a 10 year old child perhaps


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## Mssjnnfer

You're a piece of work.

Anyway, to stay on topic. To the OP: I think it is far too cold to keep your dog outside, and I'm just wondering why he can't stay inside at night with you.


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## eeneymeanymineymo

caparrish1108:

"2. GoldenRetrieverForum.com Members shall refrain from the use of vulgar language and obscenities. – We recognize no individual word used, in and of itself, can constitute a moral evil alone but rather it’s when words are assembled into sentences that form ideas that it has the potential to become truly offensive and vulgar. However certain individual words are nevertheless considered highly offensive to the majority of the English language speakers and in recognition of this fact, a small list of those words are maintained and that can be only accessed by the moderators, and will be used to identify and assist in keeping those highly offensive words from appearing on the forum. Keep in mind that many words which are usually quite innocent, can also be used in a vulgar fashion. Thus many individual words not contained on the list per se will have to be assessed as to their offensive nature by actual usage. "

I was just reading this thread and found your post with your chosen words offensive.


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## caparrish1108

eeneymeanymineymo said:


> caparrish1108:
> 
> "2. GoldenRetrieverForum.com Members shall refrain from the use of vulgar language and obscenities. – We recognize no individual word used, in and of itself, can constitute a moral evil alone but rather it’s when words are assembled into sentences that form ideas that it has the potential to become truly offensive and vulgar. However certain individual words are nevertheless considered highly offensive to the majority of the English language speakers and in recognition of this fact, a small list of those words are maintained and that can be only accessed by the moderators, and will be used to identify and assist in keeping those highly offensive words from appearing on the forum. Keep in mind that many words which are usually quite innocent, can also be used in a vulgar fashion. Thus many individual words not contained on the list per se will have to be assessed as to their offensive nature by actual usage. "
> 
> I was just reading this thread and found your post with your chosen words offensive.


and.........


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## BeauShel

There is forum rules for a reason. We have children and young adults read the forum. And they get exposed to enough in life without coming to a golden forum and reading cuss words. 

You may think your dog can defend himself but there is always another dog out there, person out there or another animal out there that can hurt or kill him and you as his owner are not doing your job taking care of him. Letting him run loose where someone steal him to use his as a bait dog in a dogfighting ring, a person dropping an unknown dog off in the neighborhood that your dog wont be able to kick his butt and pays the price, he gets out on the road and gets hit by the car. He doesnt know where his property ends and another property starts and someone might not like him showing up and take care of him one way or another. There is no way you can train a dog to stay away from cars or the road, no dog is that smart, even goldens. You owe it to your dog to be his protector not just his part time protector by letting him live his life free and loose. I am not even going to respond to the part of him living outside as my dogs all live inside with me and they are not fat, lazy unhappy dogs. They are loved, spoiled and get to swim, get walks, chase tennis balls, and each other in the yard and so happy. If they had a choice, I know exactly what life they would chose. They get to sleep in a bed every night. 

Please read the forum FAQ Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums - FAQ: Forum FAQ and refrain from using profanity on the forum.


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## Lilliam

Lydia Tomson said:


> This dog owner is NOT throwing her dog away! She is simply letting her dog sleep outside at night! You cant assume that this dog is miserable just because it spends a few hours a day sleeping out there. I have met a few goldens that dont like people, but I've met a lot that cant stand to be without people. It depends on the training, the socialization and the personality of the dog. And besides sometimes--depending on where you live--the temperature outside is healthier for the dog. Goldens were bred to hunt in water, freezing water! Just because most dont hunt now, doesn't mean that they dont still have the same characteristics as their ancestors. If I said that every golden needs to be trained to behaviour properly I apologize because that is incorrect.


Reiterating - just because a dog is bred to go into freezing water and hunt it doesn't mean that it should be left to sleep outside in 35 degree weather, unsupervised. Take the dog out, engage in those activities, then bring him inside and PROTECT HIM FROM THE ELEMENTS which is what is REQUIRED of any pet owner. Perhaps leaving a dog to freeze outside at night is OK with you and you see no problen with it, I see I great deal of problem with a dog thrown away at night in 35 degree weather while his family is warm and safe inside. There is A LOT wrong with that. You are OK with that, I'm most decidedly NOT. A dog is a part of the family, not an inanimate object to be thrown out at night in near freezing weather, unattended, for eight hours. 

By the way, I'm remembering your Freezing Puppy thread and I'm wondering whether you took us all on a ride on that, especially seeing how you defend the premise of a dog sleeping outside in 35 degree weather. One of those things that makes me go hhhhhmmmmmm........


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## Lilliam

caparrish1108 said:


> How can you berate me for circumstances that you are so clearly ignorant about. You do not know what type of house I have, What kind of basement he sleeps in, and I do know that those are basic requirements for my pup but my point was that I have provided the best I have to offer.
> 
> Secondly, I did research the breed. I did know that they shed. and I DO brush samson EVERY SINGLE DAY. I do not think it is icky to touch my dog. I also did my research that Goldens love to run and swim. So I decided that he should be able to run and swim all he wants. Unfortunately I do not have a track or pool in my house. So I let him stay outside. and he loves it.
> 
> Also, Do I have to give indication that he is trained. Doesn't every responsible dog owner train their dog. Just because I didn't tell you Samson was trained doesn't mean he isn't. He comes when he is called no matter how far away he is in the woods. There are several dogs that live around us and he goes and plays with them. They come over and play here. As for fending for himself he does a pretty **** good job of it. He's lived 5 years outside and he's thriving like a dog should.
> 
> I never made a broad statement about how living in a house was bad for dogs. I never said anything to ridicule anyone for treating their dog like a person as many of you do. I wish I could have done that. BUT my dad did not want a dog in the house. He does pay the mortgage so he makes the rules. I was the one attacked for my comments on the original question of this thread that has so clearly been ignored long before my post. So I would appreciate if you could BACK OFF.


 
I am most decidedly NOT BACKING OFF because when it comes to dogs, their well being are A LOT more important than how a person feels about my words. I may not know what your basement looks like, but having a dog in confinement in it, then having a dog confined outside, then having that dog loose and unsupervised over 20 acres is not outstanding quality of life for a breed that craves and lives for human interaction. 

You don't seem to understand that a dog left loose to roam unsupervised and to go into a pond unsupervised can get into a lot of trouble. If he wears a collar he can get stuck at the bottom and drown. If he doesnt wear a collar and he roams too far he can get lost. A dog does not know boundaries and can go into someone else's property. He can jump a fence. You are describing a dog who gets almost no interaction and who is left on his own to do as he pleases with no supervision. That is NOT REPONSIBLE PET OWNERSHIP. That is having a dog as a thing that you just interact with when it's convenient, not as a loving commitment.

And your last line says it all - living outside for five years and thriving like a dog should. You do in fact believe that dogs should be left to their own devices, outside of the family, facing the elements alone. You said it all in that sentence. I have very little respect for that kind of thinking. Since that is your philosophy, and it's that uncaring for what is best for the dog, I fully understand that nothing anyone says will make an impact. But as of backing off you, not in a million years. Your kind of pet ownership makes me cringe.


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## Lilliam

caparrish1108 said:


> First, I was the only one at home with my parents so no luck in outnumbering them. And second your dog sounds like a ***** if it can't defend itself. and if you trained to to not defend itself then you are to blame. Samson can defend himself very easily (kicked a pit bulls *** once) but will lay next to my 2 year old nephew and not growl or anything. So that may say something about your handling. Lastly I never said i didn't trust my neighbors so don't make generalizations based on your life.
> 
> Oh and cats suck


What ridiculous thinking. You're PROUD that your dog got in a fight with a pit bull????? And how did it come to have that fight? In your property? 

We take pride in our dogs being able to interact with other dogs, that's what the breed is about. We take pride in ensuring that our dogs don't find themselves in a situation where they have to fight for themselves. Oh, yes, I forgot....YOU take pride in the fact that your dog can fend for itself roaming 20 acres unsupervised. No knowing what fights he can get into in that kind of space, possibly being hurt, not being able to return, and possibly die out there, like a....dare I say it?....like a dog. Yes, in a dog fight, especially with a pit bull, dogs die every single day. Good job in being proud of the fact that you were unable to protect your dog from being in a fight with a pit bull. Great pet ownership.


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## Connor

caparrish1108 said:


> Samson has about 20 acres to roam and a 2 acre pond to swim in. There are no fences apart from his 25' X 15' pen that he sleeps in in warm weather and his inside pen when its cold.


 
Hello Caparrish,

Sounds to me like your Golden is living in paradise mate....20 acres for him to explore and a 2 acre pond ? It also sounds as if you provide for him very well. ie Outside kennel and an inside kennel when the weather is bad. Along with plenty of interacting with your family.

If I book an air ticket could I please come with my Goldens and join him...sounds like he's living the life of Riley. I promise we won't be a nuisance to you...!


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## Megora

I was hesitant to post this link last night, because I did not want to pile on somebody who was on the defensive, not listening, and not thinking clearly or feed a troll if that was the situation.

But when somebody basically said that his or her dog runs loose through the property, visits the neighbors dogs (it was late and my eyes were tired from working on the computer all evening yesterday, but I'm pretty sure that the somebody mentioned his dog keeps visiting the neighbors on another recent thread), fends for himself...

I did sadly remember a thread I was reading last year and then the very common result of irresponsible ownership thread that followed recently.... 

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/golden-retriever-rainbow-bridge/87592-rest-peace-teddy.html


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## Tahnee GR

A dog is not safe roaming, whether it is day or night. I sold a dog to people who lived at the end of a dead end road, owned 200+ acres. He was an inside dog but because they were so isolated they got into the bad habit of letting him out to do his business, and letting him stay for an hour or more at a time. One day he didn't come back-they found him at the end of their driveway, hit by a car! Mind you, it was the rare day they had any vehicles except their own on the road.

Another friend, same situation, her dog was attacked and killed by something, not sure what-bear, coyotes, pack of feral dogs.

I don't care where you live and how much space you have, other than a live stock guarding dog, dogs are not safe running loose. And it has nothing to do with trusting your dog.


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## Karen519

*My dogs*

I would never let my dogs sleep outside under any circumstances-too many awful things can happen-they can be attacked, stolen, freeze to death!
My dogs are part of the family and I would never not have them near us every minute. 
It is an owner's responsbility to love, care for, protect, and nuture a dog.


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## Megora

> other than a live stock guarding dog, dogs are not safe running loose


And they still aren't safe to be allowed to run loose without some kind of fence or barrier + owner control... 

I'm sure I wasn't the only one who read about "Northbound" yesterday morning. That was a female german shepherd who had been rescued off a highway where she'd been running around during rush hour. The only way they caught her was by tazing her. Then she may not be adoptable because she has been fending for herself for a long time. She doesn't trust people.


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## fostermom

caparrish1108 said:


> Because I am 22 years old and have roamed the same land he is roaming for the past 18 years or so. Maybe it makes you nervous because you don't trust your dog. I trust mine. He always comes back.


This explains a lot. I thought that it was great to let my dog wander around off-leash when I was 20 years old, too. Then she was killed by a car. We were on a 20+ acre farm, but she saw something across the street that was too cool to resist and she got hit. I hope you never have to learn your lesson the way I did.


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## Megora

fostermom said:


> This explains a lot. I thought that it was great to let my dog wander around off-leash when I was 20 years old, too. Then she was killed by a car. We were on a 20+ acre farm, but she saw something across the street that was too cool to resist and she got hit. I hope you never have to learn your lesson the way I did.


I was thinking too that even though people might live on 20 acre lots, that isn't a lot considering the house may still be sitting 1-5 acres or less from the road. 

My barn lady has 40+ acres (including a couple ponds), but most of that is back behind the house. Her house is still up by the road. She also lives on a rural and winding road that people in big trucks zip through fast enough to leave ripples in the narrow dirt/gravel side roads along this route.


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## GoldenJoy

I am so sorry that I posted my original resonse. I NEVER said that inside dogs are ALL overfed, underexercised, etc. I said SOME! SOME!  We have always had indoor dogs, and like your dogs, they are well fed, heartily exercised, trained, and loved to infinity and beyond...... I was only trying to make a point that caring for a dog goes so far beyond where the dog sleeps.... Our dog loves her crate at night, but others would think it is very cruel to allow her to sleep in there. We keep her crate in our bedroom while my friend's dog sleeps alone on a couch in their family room. My college roommate's three dogs slept on their porch on all but the coldest nights, and they were some of the best cared-for dogs I ever met. I'm sorry, really sorry, that my words were taken to mean "all" inside dogs, when I CLEARLY said "SOME." Thanks.


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## nixietink

Lydia Tomson said:


> I have met a few goldens that dont like people, but I've met a lot that cant stand to be without people. It depends on the training, the socialization and the personality of the dog.


Sounds like bad breeding to me and is DEFINITELY not the norm in a well-bred golden. The breed standard:

Friendly, reliable, and trustworthy. Quarrelsomeness or hostility towards other dogs or people in normal situations, or an unwarranted show of timidity or nervousness, is not in keeping with Golden Retriever character. Such actions should be penalized according to their significance.


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## FinnTastic

caparrish1108 said:


> What if you were in a fatal car accident tomorrow? Does that stop you from driving? What if a gunman comes into the bank and unloads on everyone? Does that stop you from going to the bank?
> 
> Life is full of risks...I figure take the risks into account but if you are afraid if letting a dog run then you probably have bigger problems to deal with.


Yes, but there are people around and we have fingers and cell phones to call for help. Plus, your not the one taking the risks your dog is.
You don't worry about other animals coming onto your property..like coyotes or bears? How would you know where to look if he was attacked? What if he was hurt and scared and took off away from your property? What if a hunter came onto your 22 acres by mistake and shot him by mistake? What if he broke his leg roaming free? How do you know he stays on your property at all? Are you willing to pay for the risks that you let your dog take if he gets seriously hurt or lost?


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## fostermom

FinnTastic said:


> What if a hunter came onto your 22 acres by mistake and shot him by mistake? What if he broke his leg roaming free? How do you know he stays on your property at all? Are you willing to pay for the risks that you let your dog take if he gets seriously hurt or lost?


And it IS deer season in NC. Golden Retrievers are very similar in color to a deer. I am always on the watch when I'm up at the lake with my dogs even though we are on private property. There have been a couple of times when the deer hunters are running their dogs and the dogs trail the deer into our neighborhood. All it takes is one ignorant or overly excited hunter to take aim and shoot at a flash of brown.


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## Ranger

I know plenty of farm/working dogs and all of them (i'm happy to say) are very much a well-loved member of the family and sleep inside the house at night. They spent the majority of their time outside, unleashed, on acres of land...but only after serious training from puppyhood upwards to staying off the road and staying in "bounds". Not to mention most of the dogs are so "close" to their owners, they never wander off and always keep an eye on their owner.

Still, "stuff" happens. My barn owner had a JRT and a rottie cross that never went past the house line to the road - ever. She was doing chores outside all morning and when it was lunchtime, both dogs took off to the back field. Gopher hunting, she thought. An hour later, only the rottie came back. It took her 3 days to find her JRTs body...she had picked a fight with a badger and lost.

My aunt has 100 acres and 3 dogs - 2 JRTS and a doberman. They explore, wander, but always come home for meals and spent their evenings/nights in the house. Last I talked to her, her JRT had just come back from the vet for the 2nd time that summer after picking a fight with a porcupine. A week later, she called to say her doberman, who's she had for 6 years, was missing. She's never found him. 

So you never know what your dog is going to run into that's going to best him. Even if your dog did school a pitbull :uhoh:, there's many nastier things living without boundaries and probably on your property. It's nice to think your dog can defend himself, but against a venomous snake? A cougar? Badger? That's a risk I myself wouldn't be able to take. I don't know what I'd do if Ranger went out and never came back. The guilt of my poor ownership leading to his death would be overwhelming. Hopefully that's not something you ever have to deal with...for the sake of your dog.


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## Hali's Mom

Kally76 said:


> I would like to add one little thing. I'm not really involved in this conversation in anyway but I feel as though I need to defend myself a little. I am in one of those "farm families" everyone keeps referring to. I live on a working farm. Our dogs are with us outside all day long, and when the work day is over they sleep *inside* with the rest of us at night.


Yay.............finally. I have no problem with dogs outside with their people, but at days end I believe they too should retire to the house. This thread reminds me of the "hunting dog mentality". The people who believe that you will ruin a GOOD hunting dog if you let them in the house. I can guarantee there are many hunters that have excellent hunting dogs in their homes right now.


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## Jamm

Wow can't believe i actually just read all of that nonsense. I guess i have an overfed, under exercised untrained dog because i love when he lays at my feet at night. There are so many things WRONG with this whole thread. It doesn't matter how much acreage you have for your dog to run around, like Enzo's mom said, anything can happen, and he could get hurt and you wouldn't know until you went to go put him into his pen at night. The fact your PROUD your dog beat up a pitbull is disgusting and your last comment about cats sucking. You are like every other obnoxious teenager who thinks they own the world. And i AM a teenager, but here you come barging in and making us young people on the forum look bad. You came here for a simple question but have come back with more then an answer, name calling, and dissing other members dogs and other peoples pets (FYI, MANY members including myself have and LOVE cats. Not so smart thinking there) If you are not going to listen to the amazing advice and information other members have given you, leave, all you're doing here is causing more heated arguments.


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## Jamm

Ranger said:


> I know plenty of farm/working dogs and all of them (i'm happy to say) are very much a well-loved member of the family and sleep inside the house at night. They spent the majority of their time outside, unleashed, on acres of land...but only after serious training from puppyhood upwards to staying off the road and staying in "bounds". Not to mention most of the dogs are so "close" to their owners, they never wander off and always keep an eye on their owner.
> 
> Still, "stuff" happens. My barn owner had a JRT and a rottie cross that never went past the house line to the road - ever. She was doing chores outside all morning and when it was lunchtime, both dogs took off to the back field. Gopher hunting, she thought. An hour later, only the rottie came back. It took her 3 days to find her JRTs body...she had picked a fight with a badger and lost.
> 
> My aunt has 100 acres and 3 dogs - 2 JRTS and a doberman. They explore, wander, but always come home for meals and spent their evenings/nights in the house. Last I talked to her, her JRT had just come back from the vet for the 2nd time that summer after picking a fight with a porcupine. A week later, she called to say her doberman, who's she had for 6 years, was missing. She's never found him.
> 
> So you never know what your dog is going to run into that's going to best him. Even if your dog did school a pitbull :uhoh:, there's many nastier things living without boundaries and probably on your property. It's nice to think your dog can defend himself, but against a venomous snake? A cougar? Badger? That's a risk I myself wouldn't be able to take. I don't know what I'd do if Ranger went out and never came back. The guilt of my poor ownership leading to his death would be overwhelming. Hopefully that's not something you ever have to deal with...for the sake of your dog.


There you go. Excellent words and TRUTHFUL speaking from someone who knows your situation. 100% agree Ranger.


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## Ljilly28

I would definitely issue a challenge for the fitness of my house goldens who sleep in bed - they are rock solid muscle and get 3 plus hours of off leash running, hiking, field training, or seagull chasing in chest deep ocean water 7 days a week. Bring it, outdoor dogs chained to a dog house or loose on 100 acres! However, they are lovers not fighters, and will have to bow out on any and all fighting.


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## grcharlie

Jamm said:


> Wow can't believe i actually just read all of that nonsense. I guess i have an overfed, under exercised untrained dog because i love when he lays at my feet at night. There are so many things WRONG with this whole thread. It doesn't matter how much acreage you have for your dog to run around, like Enzo's mom said, anything can happen, and he could get hurt and you wouldn't know until you went to go put him into his pen at night. The fact your PROUD your dog beat up a pitbull is disgusting and your last comment about cats sucking. You are like every other obnoxious teenager who thinks they own the world. And i AM a teenager, but here you come barging in and making us young people on the forum look bad. You came here for a simple question but have come back with more then an answer, name calling, and dissing other members dogs and other peoples pets (FYI, MANY members including myself have and LOVE cats. Not so smart thinking there) If you are not going to listen to the amazing advice and information other members have given you, leave, all you're doing here is causing more heated arguments.


 
You may be a teen......don't even think this person makes young people on this board look bad. Hey I have seen some older people act very badly......but really I look at people for who they are.....not age. Your a cool young adult!


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## Jamm

grcharlie said:


> You may be a teen......don't even think this person makes young people on this board look bad. Hey I have seen some older people act very badly......but really I look at people for who they are.....not age. Your a cool young adult!


Haha, Thank you! I agree with you about your adults statement.. 100%!


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## caparrish1108

fostermom said:


> And it IS deer season in NC. Golden Retrievers are very similar in color to a deer. I am always on the watch when I'm up at the lake with my dogs even though we are on private property. There have been a couple of times when the deer hunters are running their dogs and the dogs trail the deer into our neighborhood. All it takes is one ignorant or overly excited hunter to take aim and shoot at a flash of brown.


 
It is not deer season in NC Deer season ends Jan 1. Nice Reseach though. and hunters don't shoot at flashes of brown. They shoot at deer, clearly seen, standing still deer. Its not even the same color brown.


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## fostermom

caparrish1108 said:


> It is not deer season in NC Deer season ends Jan 1. Nice Reseach though. and hunters don't shoot at flashes of brown. They shoot at deer, clearly seen, standing still deer. Its not even the same color brown.


Oh sorry, I haven't been up at the lake this month and I'm not a hunter. Shame on me for being off by 5 days!

And no, not all hunters shoot at clearly seen, standing still deer. Nice research, though. Guess you didn't read about the soldier who was out jogging in Fayetteville who was killed on January 1st by a deer hunter, huh? And yes, golden retrievers and deer are very close in color.

Sheesh, this makes me much more appreciative of the mature 20 year olds and teenagers that we have that regularly post on this forum!


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## The_Artful_Dodger

GoldenJoy said:


> I am so sorry that I posted my original resonse. I NEVER said that inside dogs are ALL overfed, underexercised, etc. I said SOME! SOME!  We have always had indoor dogs, and like your dogs, they are well fed, heartily exercised, trained, and loved to infinity and beyond...... I was only trying to make a point that caring for a dog goes so far beyond where the dog sleeps.... Our dog loves her crate at night, but others would think it is very cruel to allow her to sleep in there. We keep her crate in our bedroom while my friend's dog sleeps alone on a couch in their family room. My college roommate's three dogs slept on their porch on all but the coldest nights, and they were some of the best cared-for dogs I ever met. I'm sorry, really sorry, that my words were taken to mean "all" inside dogs, when I CLEARLY said "SOME." Thanks.


The point I thought you were making from your original comment is that a dog who happens to sleep outside at night but is engaged with his family all day doing outside activities can have a better quality of life than a dog who sleeps inside but is ignored most of the time. Not that all outside dogs have a better quality of life than all inside dogs. I never took it to mean that all dogs that sleep inside are over-fed, underexercized etc. etc. But thanks for clarifying....twice!


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## BeauShel

caparrish1108-no matter anything anyone says you will think you are right and everyone is wrong, so I will keep your dog in my prayers, he will need it. 

Just to let you know as I am sure you do, there are still hunters out there, hunting out of season, just ask my husband, he is a wildlife officer and catches them all year round night and day. Not everyone makes sure to see that the deer is in the clear, not too long ago, a guy almost lost his life, from a bow hunter that shot him with a bow when he saw brown in the bushes. The guy had the required orange but it wasnt visible for the hunters angle. 

Since you do let him run loose, why dont you at least get him an orange collar that is reflective so he can be seen alittle better, since you say you love him so much. Give him a fighting chance, if there is a poacher out there. If you see hunters with their dogs out there, they have orange gear on their dogs, no matter the color, brown, tan, black or red. 

From what you say, you have the most responsible hunters in North Carolina doing everything to the letter of law, so I will be sure to let my friend, the wildlife officer, there in North Carolina that his job isnt needed. LOL


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## FinnTastic

:--big_grin:


BeauShel said:


> caparrish1108-no matter anything anyone says you will think you are right and everyone is wrong, so I will keep your dog in my prayers, he will need it.
> 
> Just to let you know as I am sure you do, there are still hunters out there, hunting out of season, just ask my husband, he is a wildlife officer and catches them all year round night and day. Not everyone makes sure to see that the deer is in the clear, not too long ago, a guy almost lost his life, from a bow hunter that shot him with a bow when he saw brown in the bushes. The guy had the required orange but it wasnt visible for the hunters angle.
> 
> Since you do let him run loose, why dont you at least get him an orange collar that is reflective so he can be seen alittle better, since you say you love him so much. Give him a fighting chance, if there is a poacher out there. If you see hunters with their dogs out there, they have orange gear on their dogs, no matter the color, brown, tan, black or red.
> 
> From what you say, you have the most responsible hunters in North Carolina doing everything to the letter of law, so I will be sure to let my friend, the wildlife officer, there in North Carolina that his job isnt needed. LOL


I think I may have to pray for her dog as well. I feel bad for her dog b/c everyday he is a great risk for getting hurt
I'm guessing there is no leash law about dogs or letting them roam free like she does?


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## fostermom

FinnTastic said:


> :--big_grin:
> I think I may have to pray for her dog as well. I feel bad for her dog b/c everyday he is a great risk for getting hurt
> I'm guessing there is no leash law about dogs or letting them roam free like she does?


Some leash laws in NC are by county and some are by city and not all counties or cities have leash laws. If her dog isn't leaving her 20+ acres, the leash law wouldn't apply either way. I see ads all the time about dogs who have been shot, it's really pretty common in NC, especially in the rural areas.


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## nanoki2

I did a bit of reseach and the concensus seems to be that any temperature under 40 degrees is too cold for a dog to sleep outside. If they are going to sleep outside, its recommended that they have a good insulated dog house, with pillows or blankets for comfort and make sure they have plenty of water. Also make sure their environment is safe so predators can't enter.

I personally have my dogs with me at night but many people have their dogs outside. Its all about making sure their needs are met and they are safe and comfortable.


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## Lydia Tomson

Lilliam said:


> Reiterating - just because a dog is bred to go into freezing water and hunt it doesn't mean that it should be left to sleep outside in 35 degree weather, unsupervised. Take the dog out, engage in those activities, then bring him inside and PROTECT HIM FROM THE ELEMENTS which is what is REQUIRED of any pet owner. Perhaps leaving a dog to freeze outside at night is OK with you and you see no problen with it, I see I great deal of problem with a dog thrown away at night in 35 degree weather while his family is warm and safe inside. There is A LOT wrong with that. You are OK with that, I'm most decidedly NOT. A dog is a part of the family, not an inanimate object to be thrown out at night in near freezing weather, unattended, for eight hours.
> 
> By the way, I'm remembering your Freezing Puppy thread and I'm wondering whether you took us all on a ride on that, especially seeing how you defend the premise of a dog sleeping outside in 35 degree weather. One of those things that makes me go hhhhhmmmmmm........


First of all, I was not making up any parts of the thread I posted earlier. I did NOT just write it because I wanted to see the reactions. Only a very, very, very confused person would fake a post like that. But...I guess just because a goldens hunt in freezing water doesn't mean they should expected to sleep in cold temperatures.


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## Enzos_Mom

Lydia Tomson said:


> I guess just because a goldens hunt in freezing water doesn't mean they should expected to sleep in cold temperatures.


Goldens that are hunting are outside with their people, being supervised. Also, most hunters I know don't go out for 8 hours at a time. Just saying.


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## Rctriplefresh5!

MittaBear said:


> It doesn't matter if it's the absolute perfect temperature for the dog outside. He's a family member too, and deserves to sleep inside with the rest of his family.


perfect post


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## Heidi36oh

Rctriplefresh5! said:


> perfect post


I totally agree


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## Lilliam

OK, for the proponents of dogs sleeping outside in near freezing weather because they were bred to hunt, let's follow that argument...

Dogs survive on scraps they can find in trash, so let's let them do that.
Dogs can survive without good manners, so let's not train them.
Dogs have breeding instincts, so let's not neuter any of them.
Dogs have been bred to be fighters, so let's not teach them that aggression is wrong.
Dogs evolved from wolves who came to the fire, took what they wanted and hung around for more, so let's throw out some food and ignore them because we'll know they'll hang around.

Ridiculous, right? So let's not use the dogs-were-bred-to-hunt-so-we-don't-need-to-provide-appropriate-care-towards-their-well-being-because-they-were-bred-t-be-hardy argument.....m'kay????

Goldens are currently being bred (in 2011 last time I checked and not Victorian Scotland near Lord Tweedmouth's estate) to be:

Guide dogs
Epilepsy dogs
Search and Rescue dogs
Conformationn dogs

*COMPANION ANIMALS*

None of the purposes for which goldens are bred mentioned above require goldens to jump in ice freezing water and then spend the night with icicles hanging off their eyelashes....so....a dog that has been bred as companion animal does not have a prerequisite for that type of hardiness since most people who live in the Artic or Antartica would probably choose a spitz type dog and steer away from goldens as compaions.....

Sorry folks, the consistent use of that argument has really put me over the top....


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## Karen2

Coming originally from a farming background, we never had "house dogs" always outside.
That being said, when they are always outside, their winter coat comes in full to protect them, they also could sleep in the hay barn as they wanted.
Fast forward to Sierra, our house dog... she barerly has a change in her coat as she is inside most of the time. 
I think it would be hard on the dog to be inside, during the day and outside at night.
Just to adjust to the temperature swings they would have to deal with everyday.
just my 2 cents.


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## GoldensGirl

I agree with others that Goldens should be treated as family members and sleep indoors. My boys sleep in our bedroom, which occasionally has amusing consequences. (There's a funny thread on this subject somewhere. )

It is also true that sometimes my Goldens like to nap outside on the deck, even when snow is falling on them. I think of this as being like men (and women) who enjoy camping and sleeping on the ground in their sleeping bags. Doing it because they want to is fine, but they shouldn't have to do it. 

They are my beloved fur-people, far too important to my happiness to put them at risk sleeping in freezing conditions.


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## winewinn

If dogs are properly acclimated to the weather, having them outside is okay. It is bringing them indoors and then outdoors that is very stressful on a dog that has not been properly acclimated to the weather.

With the dog indoors during the day, why outside at night? Are you having potty issues or barking issues?


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## Swampcollie

35 to 45 degrees, you're kidding right? :doh:

By retriever standards that is not even remotely close to being cold. For most, that's just getting into the "comfortable" range. I worry about heat stress on working dogs when the temperature goes *above* 40. 

35 degrees too cold? Hogwash!

The dogs can tolerate cold much better than we can. If I can be out in it, the dogs can certainly be out in it.


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## Megora

Swampcollie said:


> 35 to 45 degrees, you're kidding right? :doh:
> 
> By retriever standards that is not even remotely close to being cold. For most, that's just getting into the "comfortable" range. I worry about heat stress on working dogs when the temperature goes *above* 40.
> 
> 35 degrees too cold? Hogwash!
> 
> The dogs can tolerate cold much better than we can. If I can be out in it, the dogs can certainly be out in it.


FWIW... I do agree with all this (except for the worrying about heat stress above 40 <- I tend to worry about heat stress above 75 degrees). 

For horses and dogs and even people, when the temperature gets up to 35-40 degrees in winter, it feels like spring. Even at night. The animals love it. That's hiking weather. And in most cases, that about the time I start opening my car windows all the way to let the fresh air in while I'm driving. 

Now admittedly, when the temp is going down to 35-40 degrees after daily temps of 70-80 degrees and nightly temps of 50-60. Then 35-40 most definitely feels cold. So I guess I understand where these other people are coming from. 

I think the above difference of perception is likely due to the body adapting to the cold and used to working harder in winter vs the body getting caught by surprise by the cold temps and the need to adapt. Or something to that effect. :doh:

I just came inside with my golden after spending some time playing in our yard together. He loves the cold and snow - and honestly speaking, all my goldens have. 

My only argument and reject-yuck factor is putting the dog outside overnight, or making a golden retriever be an outside dog (this has nothing to do with hunting or playing outside in cold temperatures), particularly an outside dog who is free to go wherever he wants because supposedly he always comes back. :uhoh:


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## Megora

*Humored* So, I was sitting in our living room with the window cracked open when I heard a dog barking. 

There are two dogs in the neighborhood who are kept outside. The rescued mix down the street (the one who attacked Jacks) and the St. Bernard up the street. 

I didn't recognize the bark and the dog kept barking for about half and hour so I wound up hopping in my car and driving out and about to see who was outside. There are dogs that get loose sometimes, the bark sounded agitated, and also it's like 10 degrees outside. 

Found out it was an 8 month old English Setter who lives down the road and about. They have invisible fencing, but the dog was sitting right inside the line and barking hysterically. The lights were on in the house, so I passed by and turned around. 

And then I'm sheepish to say I honked my horn a couple times before driving back home. 

5 minutes later, there was no more barking. People apparently tune out their barking dogs, but they get the point when somebody honks a couple times at their house.


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