# Please review my senior hunter test water series



## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Here's some photos.

The first is the view from the second option judge location.

The second is the view from the first option judge location. The people on the peninsula is not where we will be running from, I'm referring to the land where the person took the photo from.

I think the view on google is old, it doesn't really show how brushy the area is now.

Distances for the marks is about 75-80 yards. Distance for blind is 40 yards.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

not sure what you mean by review?


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

are you asking for advice on the set up?

One thing on water, is we didn't run from the bank typically we were about ten to fifteen feet from the bank and also, use that peninsula as we did have in and out marks as part of the double on two of her water tests.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Yes you're right, I could and should start farther from the bank. I've started one test last year 75 feet from the bank. It was really interesting to start that far back. I will adjust.

I'm just looking for suggestions for the mock test setups. If the angles are too close or too far apart. If I should use the vegetation any differently. I wanted to make it a combination SH and JH, and maybe I'm dumbing it down too much...


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

One thing I know is that down here the only difference in the JH and SH is one was singles and the lines were closer. 

One more thing I can think off is that one bird always landed on land it was not close to the bank it was usually far up on the land. The other bird was in the water. One of the tests I did we ran off the penisula. one of the guns was on the bank in front of us and it threw in the water to our left, on the right on the shore, the gunner threw about thirty feet on land. For me this was an easier test, the penisula separated the marks for the double and the dogs wouldn't risk going to the wrong AOF. The other one some dogs didn't hunt up far enough on land and had to be handled. that is something you could easily do with what you have.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Last year we did run from the tip of the peninsula on the map to a mark up on 40' up land and one way off in the water. No cheating that way! The trek to the peninsula is long and the brush is quite a bit deeper than last year. So I wanted to avoid going to the tip of the peninsula for that reason. So far we have 4 or so tollers, 2 FCRs, 5 or so goldens, and a bunch of show labs. Since it's a holiday, I wanted it all planned out before we went, so we could hit the ground running on Saturday morning. Fingers crossed nobody is camping where we want to run the water series. The forest service said we can start cutting brush mid-July. They gave us one weekend.


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

i like A as a training set up (would push the bottom gunner farther into that pocket (swim to the end of the pond)) but B as a test it isn't easy but not to hard. i would throw the top gunner as the memory bird and the bottom gun as the go bird. makes it a little more difficult on the marking side.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I like your 2nd setup much better. The only trap I see is if on the long gun the dog gets behind the gunner hunting (which is VERY possible ---- throwing from one side of a channel and landing on the other side of a channel is a difficult concept, most dogs hug the side the gunner is on) -- anyways if they get behind the gun they are impossible to see. You cannot handle a dog you cannot see, you cannot judge a dog you cannot see. Yet they could conceivably be in the AOF in that area, or they could be in a TON of trouble and you wouldn't see them until the popped up WAY off line.

The first setup, I do not like the blind for a senior level blind. Now, the high cover all the way to the shore will help keep the dogs in the water but that down the channel stuff is too much to expect for your average Senior dog, IMO. For setup 1 I think I would try to move the line to the left, have one mark maybe up on the finger (short mark -- could do a walkup as memory bird) and have the go bird over the finger out into open water. Could have bird land in water since it's the go bird. Then your blind could be the right of the go bird and over the tip of the finger, re-enter water then swim across pond. The location of the go bird would be a crutch to help the dogs over the point.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Thanks Anney.
I'll take photos tomorrow of what we actually run and where, then do a diagram. I think most people running are JH, Started, or Hunter level. Only one or two so far are doing SH or Intermediate (NAHRA). Hoping for good weather. Hoping that people show up to help set up. And hoping that people hang around to tear down. Distance from land to water is a 3/4 mile drive. But we can drive to both and not have much of a walk. Which will be really nice. Weather is supposed to be rainy and cool. Nice weather for running dogs.


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## Poppy2 (Jun 23, 2015)

Never looked at either one...
Senior is dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

Dog to the line


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## KNorman (Aug 5, 2011)

Depends on the wind.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

On Sunday at the water, most of the people turned out to be running junior and whined about the distances on the original water series. So I modified to keep everyone happy and still give that interest for senior.

The distances to each mark are between 65 and 79 yards. The distance to the blind we couldn't quite get since it was below the edge of the hill on the water line.

We had 11 dogs run the test. Most ran it as junior and some had real trouble switching between the 2 ponds. People wanted to move up to the water's edge. I gave them the option, but told them in a real test, they may not have that option. Running a double between the 2 ponds made it interesting and very confusing for the dogs and the people. Running the blind to yet another pond made it even more interesting. A handler could run all 3 from one location.

The green lines are the throws. All birds landed in the water. The water was ice cold and even some of our Alaska dogs hesitated getting in the water.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

This is our left hand gunner. You can just see the top of her head in the middle of the photo. She was a very good sport and the bugs weren't bad at all. This pond did not have any wind at all, so the birds stayed where they were. Some dogs did run the bank, especially the show labs. One show lab was determined to run the bank out and back.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

This is the right hand gunner. The gunner is wearing black and you can't see him in the photo. he's in the middle back corner of the pond which is about the middle of the photo. Only one dog ran the bank on this mark. This was our go bird if you ran this as a double.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

This is the middle pond with the blind. It made for an interesting blind. There is actually 1 channel to cross and a shoreline to run. Brush is knee to waste deep all the way. Pretty hard to see the dog.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

In the Senior hunts tests we ran this year, getting our girl her SH, the marks were very similar to your set ups. Usually one mark hit the water and one fell on the shore in cover. Bank running was possible, but not a real set up on the marks.

The blinds were another story. On our last blind had a peninsula running out into the water, similar to what you have. The line established required the dog to cross the water in front of us and then hit tip of the peninsula crossing the land back into the water and continue across going up on the land maybe 10 yards to hit the blind. Then come back across the tip of the peninsula without running the shore along the peninsula...in the instructions with the test dog the judges warned us to not let our dogs run the shore....some did, some failed....we ran it clean,,,but I was nervous!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I did have the marks thrown in the water. I did consider the marks on land which they normally are here at this location for hunt tests. But there were enough junior dogs, that I wanted the dogs to not run the banks, so that's why throwing in the water I thought would be better. Force those darn show labs to swim. It's summer show season here and those show labs could not get any fatter. They sure don't like to swim. For the first mark, I've had the bird thrown on land beyond the peninsula so that the dog has a land-water-land-water-land mark. I had whiners so I simplified.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

Alaska....looks like a beautiful area to run! Water looks so clean and cool...probably down right cold. I think throwing in the water for a JH run was perfect, you really want those youngsters to see the fall and be able to stay on the mark. Like you say, you have to work to keep the 'Labs' in general, from running the shorelines out and back! I would love to run my girl on that, especially on the blind over the 'bridge'....what a good test that is....

Thanks for sharing the details....


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Stacey, are they only aiming for a JH for a foundation title?


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

The show labs mostly just want JH. There were people that were ready to run senior. There were also dogs not ready to run junior, so it was a wide mix on Saturday. If I had to do it over again, I would have had a better plan. But hey it was my first time setting up a mock test. I was happy so many dogs showed up on a holiday and were ready to run. We had 13 for land and 11 for water. The chessies boys had to go to the vet after their fight and lowered the water numbers. Dang chessies.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

I applaud you for trying so very hard to help everyone achieve success in the field. I wish you lived close to me, you'd make a great training partner!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Thanks MOP. I feel like if I don't get people motivated to get together to train it won't happen. I have to give the group credit for coming out on a holiday morning at 8 am. Some had to drive over 2 hours to get there. Those are the real committed people! I get more done if I have a group to meet up with versus training in my own. I tend to put off training if it's just me.


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

I agree with M.O.P. - great work on both the land and water threads.
Someone is always going to complain about something and there's so much to think about, sound like you did a great job stepping up.


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