# what are the requirments for this?



## peeps (Sep 12, 2007)

What exactly is involved in a Master Hunter ? Or a MX


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Ummm....well, Master Hunter is a hunt test, MX or Master Agility Excellent is an agility title. Two totally separate things.
Don't know if you mean AKC or CKC, as I believe requirements are different in both.


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## peeps (Sep 12, 2007)

I am looking these as titles for AKC, I would like to know which would be better suited to a beginner? I realise there are a few titles before each of these like a graduated system and would like feedback. Or would I be better off sending the dog to a professional trainer and if I did that how long could I expect my dog to be away from me? etc....


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## peeps (Sep 12, 2007)

I am looking these as titles for AKC, I would like to know which would be better suited to a beginner? I realise there are a few titles before each of these like a graduated system and would like feedback. Or would I be better off sending the dog to a professional trainer and if I did that how long could I expect my dog to be away from me? etc....


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## kgiff (Jul 21, 2008)

As to which one would be easier, it would probably depend on your dog. If you've never trained a dog to compete at high levels of either sport, they're both going to be quite difficult. Personally I think the MH would be harder, but then again I've been training and competing with my first performance dog in agility for 6 years and we don't have our MX (nor are we close). 

Either is going to take years of dedicated training, and neither are a guarantee even with the training. Then again for me, it's not about the titles, but the time I've spent with my dogs. I know my first dog won't MACH, probably won't get his MX, may get his MXJ before he retires and I hope that I can get a JH on him as he's starting his field career later in life. But regardless of his accomplishments, he's a great dog and I'm happy to have had the opportunity to have him as my partner.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Agility and Field training are two very different sports and those are high level titles. I would think it would depend on the dog and the handler for which one is easier. In our area access to training area for field work makes agility much easier to train for on a regular basis.

The one difference between agility and field is in order to earn your MX, it is a requirement to earn each title before it (NA, OA and AX). For field you can get your JH and SH, but you do not have to. If your dog is trained well enough you can go straight to MH (although you need one more leg than if you had earned a SH).

As far as what is required:

Here is a link to the rules and regs for agility
http://www.akc.org/pdfs/rulebooks/REAGIL.pdf 

And here is one for hunt tests
http://www.akc.org/pdfs/rulebooks/RHTRET.pdf


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

So with MH comes the issues of the E collar, Force Fetch, and your feelings/skills about it/them, and (just to be real, lol) lots of dead ducks/other birds in your life too. I was "bird boy" at field training the other day, and there are all these awesome, helpful older people with giant freezers full of dead birds, and funny stories about various guests encounters with said dead birds. I love working on JH, and we are "Amish" (No electricity), but there is no way that would/could fly for MH. It's really challenging. In my opinion, there is a huge step up between SH and MH. 

It's fun to read along on Retrieverforum.net with some pros, some lab people, and some pretty famous golden field people .


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Well, this is a very odd question indeed, and shows that you have a lot of research ahead of you. 
Do you just want a title that starts with the letter "M" or are you looking for something to qualify for Outstanding Sire/Dam? 
Hunt tests and agility are very very different, you need a completely different set of equipment, training skills, property, trainers, etc etc etc. 
I don't think you will find many people that will disagree that the Master Hunter is a much more difficult and coveted title than MX/MXJ for a golden. 
The commitment to train a MH dog is outweighed only by the physical and mental prerequisites a dog must possess to be MH material. 
There are many pro field trainers that will take dogs and train them and handle them completely through their titles, I don't think this exists so much in agility, so I guess there is a bonus. However to train a MH dog from start to finish, especially if it is a show-bred golden? I have no idea but I think you are talking years, and tens of thousands of dollars, to hire a pro to do it (if you can find a pro to take the dog in the first place).

I think this is an odd question -- because both of these are advanced titles that, while lofty and wonderful goals, are assumptions for very few people and dogs. Why not dabble in field and agility, see which one you and your dog enjoy the most, then enjoy the journey as far as it will take you?

Best of luck, and I'd love to hear your reason behind the question


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## peeps (Sep 12, 2007)

I was talking about titles with a friend and we were discussing what would be the hardest to do. I was looking at the list of new title holders in the grnews  I was also looking at a few handlers (field etc) sites and wondering what would be the hardest to obtain or how long we would be without our beloved dogs


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## katieanddusty (Feb 9, 2006)

Well I'd say it's easier to train a dog for MX by yourself (not sending the dog away) than MH, since virtually no one sends their dog away for agility training and I think the people who do are pretty weird.

And if you take classes with a good instructor and do it right, you should be able to get the MX pretty easily. I don't want to discount the efforts of the people who are struggling and still haven't gotten it, heck it took my young dog two years to get his AXJ so I understand how that feels too. But assuming your dog is trained to do all of the obstacles at a decent speed and there aren't any serious handling issues, it's a very doable goal. My Golden Dusty and I started training in spring of 2001, started competing summer 2002, got MXJ in summer 2004 and MX in fall of 2004 after overcoming terrible training, a year of not lying down on the table, severe teeter fear, etc. Boo the Lab started training haphazardly in 2005 or so and more focused in 2006, got NA through AX all in 2007, when I left for college in fall 2008 he had 8 MX legs, got #9 over Thanksgiving and #10 over Christmas. He finally finished his AXJ last month, then qualified in 5 out of 6 excellent B runs so far, so he's halfway done with his MXJ and I wouldn't be surprised if he finished it this summer.

If you're looking to achieve the ultimate big super goal for a certain sport, the MX is definitely not that. People hardly ever stop at MX/MXJ with middle-aged, healthy, well-trained dogs, unless they're conformation breeders looking for a VCX or something. I remember when and where Dusty finished his MXJ, had to look at my records to even remember when he got his MX, and Boo's MX just made me laugh because he was still in excellent A jumpers so he had his MX, around 200 MACH points and no double-Qs.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

According to the GRCA Yearbook:
There were 93 Goldens who earned a MX in 2008
There were 60 Goldens who earned a MH in 2008

I have no idea how many total Goldens there are competing in each venue...


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

On another note accoring to the GRCA yearbook:

There were 176 Goldens who earned a NA in 2008 (lowest level agility title)
There were 249 Goldens who earned a JH in 2008 (lowest level hunt test title)

There were 153 Golden who earned a OA in 2008 (medium level agility title)
There were 130 Goldens who earned a AX in 2008 (medium level agility title)
There were 129 Goldens who earned a SH in 2008 (medium level hunt test title)


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Huh, interesting stats! Thanks for posting. I'm assuming these are the same numbers as the corresponding document AKC puts out? (and not just GRCA-member owned dogs)


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I really think it's difficult to compare the two. 
An interesting stat would be, of dogs earning the lowest title in each venue, how many go on to finish the middle title?
I.e. if X number of dogs earn their NA, how many go on to earn the OA?
How many JH dogs go on to earn their SH?
I think there would be a bigger discrepancy there.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Hi Peeps! It is GREAT to have aspirations and goals in all walks of life. But as others have pointed out your question is virtually impossible to answer. You would need to look at your dog and access his atributes and natural abilities realisticly. Then youo would have to consider your own physical abitities and limitations. Both these venues can be demanding but overall I think agility is much more demanding on the handler than field work. 

I remember when I was starting out in obedience with my first Golden, Brandi. We had been in two trials and attained a first and second place in Novice A and I picked up the AKC Obedience Rule Book and was reading about this thing called an OTCh. I figured we would be able to attain that within another year or two. Well when we went on to Open class I suddenly realized that it was not going to happen. I wanot that good a handler, and I am still not. 

Those stats are interesting and I would be willing to wager that the number of different folks who attained an MX for the first time out of those 93 teams was more than triple the number of folks who put their first MH out of those 60. 

My humble opinion is that an MX is much easier than a MH.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

K9-Design said:


> I really think it's difficult to compare the two.
> An interesting stat would be, of dogs earning the lowest title in each venue, how many go on to finish the middle title?
> I.e. if X number of dogs earn their NA, how many go on to earn the OA?
> How many JH dogs go on to earn their SH?
> I think there would be a bigger discrepancy there.


 
EXCELLENT point Anney! I have no doubt you are correct on this.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

K9-Design said:


> Huh, interesting stats! Thanks for posting. I'm assuming these are the same numbers as the corresponding document AKC puts out? (and not just GRCA-member owned dogs)


I thought they were interesting too. Yes, that is all Goldens who earned that title for the first time in 2008


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

K9-Design said:


> I really think it's difficult to compare the two.
> An interesting stat would be, of dogs earning the lowest title in each venue, how many go on to finish the middle title?
> I.e. if X number of dogs earn their NA, how many go on to earn the OA?
> How many JH dogs go on to earn their SH?
> I think there would be a bigger discrepancy there.


I don't know if there is any way to track that, but I think you would probably be right.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

peeps said:


> I am looking these as titles for AKC, I would like to know which would be better suited to a beginner? I realise there are a few titles before each of these like a graduated system and would like feedback. Or would I be better off sending the dog to a professional trainer and if I did that how long could I expect my dog to be away from me? etc....



Speaking as a beginner field person, it depends a lot on your dog's talent, your time and energy and so on - a field trainer may be able to go further faster than you doing one hour a week or less. Depends on the dog as well, Storee I find really easy to do things with, just line her up and away she goes, we haven't had to deal with force fetch, rolling on birds, refusing to take anything, shore running or anything like that. Doubles took one lesson for her to 'get it' and she's run them in training without a problem ever since (and as far as that goes, it was a matter of telling her 'HERE' after the first bird as she looked towards the second). 

I had more issues with Bender and she never did get too far...

The other thing to consider is who you send your dog to for training. I know I've heard many times that the lab trainers can be too hard for a golden and it causes problems (like the dog who hesitates to go near the bird because of fear of the thrower correcting them, or the dog who never goes faster than a trot because they're bored with doing things over and over again). A friend did send her dog away and was ok with the training but regrets it because her dog left being happy about working and came back without that same 'spark' for the game...

Lana


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## peeps (Sep 12, 2007)

At this point I am only working towards a CD - so obviously I am not skilled or schooled into what is required. Sammy Dog thank you for the extra info  I have a desire to create the teamwork required for hunting titles as well as agility and am thinking that agility might be the way to go but wanted opinions of Hunting/retrieving as well as there are a couple local kennels that also teach some hunting skills. In terms of treatment - the girl I was thinking of for this is already a retrieving maniac and I have already taught her to hold the "ball" until I say release or give it. She will also give it and take it... but these are simple skills so .... hence my questions about training etc. I really appreciate all of the repsonses and the info & encouragment. These dogs are so fun and I really want to do things that are fun for them too!! I don't know if I am ready for dead birds yet lol - maybe if they didn't stink


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm with the people who say it really depends on the dogs.
Which is harder, drawing a stick figure or doing a calculus problem? For me....um....the stick figure. NO hand/eye coordination. Math is pretty easy, though. So which is harder, agility or field? Totally depends on the dog, and the handler.
I enjoyed the stats too, but want to add that of the dogs in obedience who get a CD less than 10% get a UD. That's not just goldens, it's all dogs.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

I think part of the difficulty in answering this question is one could say that neither of these titles (MX or MH) are for the "beginner" handler. Because the truth of the matter is, by the time you have gone through all the precursor work, all the prerequisite titles, and all the learning and experience that comes along with that... you'll hardly be a beginner.

Just a little food for though.... if you're up in the air about different activities, it never hurts to give them all a try!! Lord knows I've done it with Jersey! I don't suspect we'll go far with field training (as my work schedule hinders my ability to make sessions), but I still get him out there any opportunity I have just because I know he enjoys it. Who knows, my circumstance may change down the line, but for now it's just a "have fun" activity (and luckily we generally train with bumpers rather than actual birds, not quite as "real" but no stink!). Call me a dabbler, but I think it's a good thing to have a variety of activities... some to focus intently on competition and some to focus intently on having a good time.

One other small, and humble, suggestion... I have found I am most productive when I focus on intermittent, attainable goals. At this moment my goal is a UD (Utility Dog) title... but before that it was a CDX... and before that, a CD. As Ambika noted earlier in this thread, it's easy to take a cursory glance at advanced titles (MX, MH, UDX, OTCH, FTC, you get the point) and think, "Hey, we can do that... we will do that... there's our goal." It reminds me of what my soccer coaches used to say during tournaments. They'd always hear team members saying things like "If we beat so-and-so, we'll go against what's-their-names, and then who's-it-now," planning out the entire sequence through till we were crowned the champs. It's human nature, I suppose. But they always stressed to us that the only game that matters is the one you're currently playing... and that by losing focus on that immediate challenge, you set yourself up to fail - making all that planning just so much babble. 

Best of luck in whatever training venues you pursue!!

Julie and Jersey


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## peeps (Sep 12, 2007)

Oh yes, I wouldn't think I could walk into the ring or fields and attain these right away. This was strictly a fact finding and looking for the opinions of the listers  I have noticed alot of you talented dog lovers here are very knowledgable about this sort of thing ;0


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