# Sedation for grooming????



## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Yay for thinking things through!

1) If they say ace, say NO WAY. 
2) Meds- depends on how stressed she is... watch the "Tuckers Nail Trim" video and play with that process with her... with the clippers, with the combing, with the various parts. Training her to like the process will help her to be weaned from meds and make the process easier. Ask about how the meds work. 
3) Grooming is stressful. I've worked at groom shops run by very professional people. At the same time, while these people were --fabulous-- at grooming, they had --very-- little dog knowledge. Most couldn't even recognize signs of stress unless it was extreme. The goal is to rush through things to get done. No, not all groom shops are like that or all individuals. But I've seen and heard enough stories that not only will I likely never have my dogs groomed by someone else, but I had to quit. It made me sick to think about how stressed these dogs were and how oblivious everyone was to it. 
4) In home grooming could be a way to go. You may be able to find someone to show you how to do it. There are some big dangerous things (..about where/when/how to hold the clippers), but it's not really all that hard. I'm really bad at the 'straight and even/hand eye coordination part', so I could never do poodle cuts or bichons, etc... but a clip comb haircut isn't too hard if you have proper tools and your dog is combed out regularly (...remember, take off the collar and comb there!). 

Learning to do it yourself is not only better for most dogs (...if it's something you are able to do and will actually get done), but you'll save a ton of money. 

That coton hair is a pain to deal with at times...especially if your dog has straighter hair...so maybe just avoid public outings for a short period after your first attempt *grin*. You can do it!


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## MillysMom (Nov 5, 2008)

Why should you not Ace a dog? Is there any instances where this tranquilizer is appropriate? 

My childhood purebred mutt, Sweetie, got very stressed at the groomer. She had a great short coat and didn't need much grooming beyond brushing so she didn't go very often. As she aged her grooming stress worsened and we started giving her a little valium for the appointments.


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## LauraBella (Feb 9, 2010)

Belles never sees a groomer. I just wash and brush. However, Mom's Scott required it. Apparently, there is a rule of thumb to beware of groomers who offer to keep your dog for most of the day. Apparently, that's a red flag that they may be being drugged without your knowledge! The extra time isn't "to airdry" and may not be "so we can work on her a little at a time," but so the drugs can wear off before pickup. 

At least, I've been told this by other small dog owners.

Scary, huh?


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Ace works by making the dog physically unable to respond. But the dog is more sensitive to sounds and other things in the environment. The behavior/vet behavior people are even calling it "inhumane" due to this. When it's used in a behavior context, the dog will often need increased dosage to get the same results as he gets more and more distressed. There's the added "bonus" that dogs on ace can have lower inhibition making them super risky to deal with. 

Here's one video where a vet behaviorist talks about it (...this is where I first heard about this. I was there! Sitting in the very back!) 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-GsmrFYHKk

I'm no vet, but what I have been told is that ace is great when used with other drugs as part of sedation for surgeries, etc. But -not- as a behavior modification tool. One of our shelter dogs (extreme separation anxiety) was on it when I started volunteering... after hearing the above lecture, I went in and refused to go in his kennel until he was off it. Dr. Overall told some pretty scary stories about bites with dogs on ace. 

Hopefully some of the vets here can chime in more on this. 

Here's a longer article by Dr. Overall... there's mentions of Ace towards the bottom.

http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=136493&sk=&date=&pageID=3

Great questions though! I wish I had more information on this too... It makes me so sad to see vets and pet owners think they're helping...and then putting dogs into such a state of distress.


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## Judi (Feb 26, 2007)

akinr said:


> A few weeks ago, I took my babes (golden and coton) to Petsmart for grooming. Normally I wouldn't have done this, but they had taken a roll in the slushy mud. So, I needed a quick fix.
> Anyway, 3 hrs later they called to tell me that my coton was stressing too much to trim. I was completely confused because she had never stressed before. Sure she squirms, but I had been bathing her weekly for 2 months and she would get the occasional paw and rear trim. Also, the groomer at my vets had bathed and clipped her paws, rear, eyes, and bangs before with no problems.
> Needless to say, I took her in to the vet a few days later and explained the situation. They were able to get her clipped, but the groomer told me that she was beginning to become stressed and would probably need to have Valium or light sedation to do a thorough puppy cut. She also said that she didn't understand why she was having this problem now when she had not had it before.
> I think that the pet smart groomer may have traumatized her, and now I don't know what to do.  Should I do sedation? What about having a groomer come to my home and using some Valium?
> ...


 Go to Goldstock this coming Labor Day Weekend. You can learn how to groom. I don't like the idea of sedation for this. My dogs don't get sedated when being groomed. Why should yours?


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## MillysMom (Nov 5, 2008)

RedDogs said:


> Ace works by making the dog physically unable to respond. But the dog is more sensitive to sounds and other things in the environment. The behavior/vet behavior people are even calling it "inhumane" due to this. When it's used in a behavior context, the dog will often need increased dosage to get the same results as he gets more and more distressed. There's the added "bonus" that dogs on ace can have lower inhibition making them super risky to deal with.
> 
> Here's one video where a vet behaviorist talks about it (...this is where I first heard about this. I was there! Sitting in the very back!)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-GsmrFYHKk
> ...


Thanks for sharing! Horses sometimes have the makes the situation worse reaction to it, normally if given once the stress has started. I've always used valium in any dog issues needing something beyond rescue remedy, but didn't know about ace. That must be a very situation for the dog with enhanced senses!


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

What about seeing if the groomer at the vets would be willing to work with her a bit at a time, or just do the bath and nothing else one time, but take time to work her through her 'fear'? Sounds like something happened at petsmart and she's now assuming all groomers will do something to her.

We used to have the same problem when someone would bring their dogs to us and then went elsewhere for something, even just once. The dogs would then act out with us and usually needed some TLC to get them finished and comfortable. You can also talk to the groomer and do some conditioning work with clippers (you can get a cheap one to use at home, just for the noise and vibration) so she's used to them being something good again. Same with scissors. Heck see if you can take a quick lesson and do it yourself, it's not that tough to do unless you're quite picky.

Lana


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## akinr (Oct 27, 2009)

Thanks everyone for the comments. I have decided that I am not going to use any sedation. Last night, I trimmed her paw pads and she really struggled a lot. I really think that they did something to her, because she has never given me problems like this before, and I have always trimmed her pads.
Anyway, I put off trimming anything else for now. I will gradually work on a section at a time, until I get everything that needs clipping. 
I bought a better clipper last night, and will attempt to clip her body after she readjusts to the process. (fingers x'd) If I see that it is not too difficult to get her looking right, I will just do everything myself. If it turns out to be a mess, I am going to get a groomer that will come to my home. (My sister in law has one that she swears by). well, at least she will be done with body clippings within the next 2 years. (coton's don't shed and only grow 2 coats before they get their permanent coat- after that she will stay long).


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## Judi (Feb 26, 2007)

I am glad you don't intend to use any sedation. I rather have a less than wonderfully groomed dog than a scard and/or dangerous one!


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