# AKC v. UKC Shows?



## goldielynn (Sep 5, 2020)

So we follow Tucker Budzyn (the famous golden retriever stealing America's heart on social media), and saw that he was trying his hand at his first conformation show this weekend. He competed in a UKC (United Kennel Club) show, which I didn't even know was a thing. I don't know why he would compete in a UKC show when he's in America, but wanted to pick all the experts' brains here as to why someone would go this route instead of AKC. Does the UKC have a different breed standard than the AKC? I only ask this because I think he's around 85 pounds, which is heavier than the breed standard for AKC.

We're new to the world of conformation and our puppy will now be competing in the 6-9 month puppy class after finishing two BPUP shows, and certain case studies, in particular the one prior thread about a poster's dog bite (and possible overbite), has been amazingly helpful to me learning more about the breed standard.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

UKC is still a North American based club and they are a registry, just like AKC. As far as I know, the breed standard isn’t different, but UKC showing rules are. I’ve never shown in UKC, but I’ve always heard it’s less competitive, more relaxed, and easier to win. If “Linda” was wanting to dip her toes into conformation, I can see why she’d try out UKC first, especially since Tucker is older now. There’s less pressure in UKC. I could be wrong about this, but I believe dogs with Limited AKC registration can still show in UKC since it’s a different registry. I’m not sure what type of AKC registration Tucker has. He could be on limited and therefore not eligible to compete in AKC conformation.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Also, that wasn’t his owner showing him. Not sure who that was. And yes, I just checked his Insta story. Lol


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

UKC is a US registry.

If you know of Malagold, her husband was the president of UKC and I think he originally hired her to create a dog show experience through UKC that would specifically be for owner handlers. So she was pretty instrumental in getting it started. And that's why it's headquarters is here in MI.

If you have a dog with limited registration (AKC), you could register him in UKC and show in conformation there.

Very green or inexperienced handlers can and SHOULD utilize UKC shows to give them more practice in the ring. It gives you an opportunity to get over the nerves of showing. The routine is pretty much the same. Judges tend to be encouraged to be more friendly and supportive vs keeping a poker face which you get in AKC, so it can help a very nervous new handler.

Should add just because this is out there....a UKC championship is earned with 100 points and 3 wins under different judges. That seems like quite a lot, but it is pretty easy to get since a good show gets you like 35 points. If you do 2 shows a day, you can come out with 70 of your 100 points right there and just need 1 more show to finish the CH. 

AKC points are not that easy to earn even though you only need 15 (at least 6 of those points from major wins).


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

UKC is more geared toward owner handlers. The entries are lower and it’s more “friendly”. No professional handlers, and it’s easier to earn a CH. Honestly his breeder probably wants to be able to advertise him as a CH stud and is putting a UKC Ch on him.


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## goldielynn (Sep 5, 2020)

Emmdenn said:


> UKC is more geared toward owner handlers. The entries are lower and it’s more “friendly”. No professional handlers, and it’s easier to earn a CH. Honestly his breeder probably wants to be able to advertise him as a CH stud and is putting a UKC Ch on him.


But are the designations and titles formatted the same? For example, if I see a name, CH [Kennel] [Dog's name here], how will I be able to discern whether that CH is earned from competing in AKC or UKC shows? Or do you have to designate as UKC CH for proper titling.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

goldielynn said:


> But are the designations and titles formatted the same? For example, if I see a name, CH [Kennel] [Dog's name here], how will I be able to discern whether that CH is earned from competing in AKC or UKC shows? Or do you have to designate as UKC CH for proper titling.


Ethical people will indicate UKC if earned in that venue. The accepted titling convention is that CH would indicate a Championship earned in that country’s recognized kennel club. When dealing with multiple countries, then the county abbreviation will be in front.
Example: AM CH, Can Ch, Eng CH, etc. But UKC, IABCA and the like should alway’s be listed as such.

This is my first show dog, who has all three. Pedigree: AM CH/ BIS UKC CH/ INT'L CH Wildfire's A Kind Of Magic CGC


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

goldielynn said:


> But are the designations and titles formatted the same? For example, if I see a name, CH [Kennel] [Dog's name here], how will I be able to discern whether that CH is earned from competing in AKC or UKC shows? Or do you have to designate as UKC CH for proper titling.


UKC has its own system for where titles go and what they look like. I’m not entirely sure how it works, but I have seen a lot of people put “U-CH” before the dog’s name. They do the same for UKC obedience titles, U-CD, U-CDX, etc.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

ArkansasGold said:


> UKC has its own system for where titles go and what they look like. I’m not entirely sure how it works, but I have seen a lot of people put “U-CH” before the dog’s name. They do the same for UKC obedience titles, U-CD, U-CDX, etc.


All UKC titles go in front of the name. I guess to help sort them out? 
Here are my dogs' names with all their titles in the proper order:

UCDX URO3 Twincreek's Black Tie Affair CDX BN RN CCA CGCA CGCU TKI 
It's UKC Obedience, UKC Rally, name, AKC Obedience, AKC Rally, GRCA Conformation registered with AKC, AKC Canine Good Citizens, AKC Tricks

UCDX URO2 Twincreek's Sweet Tiddlywinks Rose CDX BN RN NAJ BCAT CCA CGC TKE 
It's UKC Obedience, UKC Rally, name, AKC Obedience, AKC Rally, AKC Agility, AKC FastCAT, GRCA Conformation registered with AKC, AKC Canine Good Citizen, AKC Tricks

I've never done anything but a puppy match in AKC conformation. I tried a couple of UKC conformation. I hear that UKC is much friendlier. I'm not sure how true that is. I tried UKC conformation. I didn't like it. I hear AKC is extremely competitive. I prefer just getting my CCA and moving on with training for obedience, rally and whatever else we find!


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Abeille said:


> All UKC titles go in front of the name. I guess to help sort them out?
> Here are my dogs' names with all their titles in the proper order:
> 
> UCDX URO3 Twincreek's Black Tie Affair CDX BN RN CCA CGCA CGCU TKI
> ...


Thank you for this! I was drawing a blank on forum members doing UKC. Don’t know why I didn’t think of you!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Abeille said:


> I've never done anything but a puppy match in AKC conformation. I tried a couple of UKC conformation. I hear that UKC is much friendlier. I'm not sure how true that is. I tried UKC conformation. I didn't like it. I hear AKC is extremely competitive. I prefer just getting my CCA and moving on with training for obedience, rally and whatever else we find!


Not sure on the friendlier either.... people tend to be pretty friendly and small world in AKC. Goldens are a big breed, but you show against the SAME people every time. Unless you and everyone else are giving each other the cold shoulder treatment, you can't help but develop a sort of camaraderie with folks you see all the time. My perspective is local people - we all tend to really know who is who and get along. Out of town handlers - probably less so, unless they are golden people like Summit or Forever - and again, both those ladies are very nice and outgoing with everyone.

I do know that if you do UKC for obedience - it's different and a bit more difficult than AKC. It should not be lumped in with conformation from that perspective. My eyes were goggling when I watched somebody do a UKC utility run + there's things like even novice having a jump exercise.

UKC - I think the competition titles go at the back of the same, same as with AKC competition titles. Front of the name should only be CH titles (CH/OTCH/FC/MACH).


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Megora said:


> Not sure on the friendlier either.... people tend to be pretty friendly and small world in AKC. Goldens are a big breed, but you show against the SAME people every time. Unless you and everyone else are giving each other the cold shoulder treatment, you can't help but develop a sort of camaraderie with folks you see all the time. My perspective is local people - we all tend to really know who is who and get along. Out of town handlers - probably less so, unless they are golden people like Summit or Forever - and again, both those ladies are very nice and outgoing with everyone.
> 
> I do know that if you do UKC for obedience - it's different and a bit more difficult than AKC. It should not be lumped in with conformation from that perspective. My eyes were goggling when I watched somebody do a UKC utility run + there's things like even novice having a jump exercise.
> 
> UKC - I think the competition titles go at the back of the same, same as with AKC competition titles. Front of the name should only be CH titles (CH/OTCH/FC/MACH).


I have friends that show in Conformation. It's just not a sport I care for. 

Yes, UKC obedience can be tougher but they allow things that AKC doesn't. Like double commands (hand and voice) on some of the exercises. The atmosphere tends to be a little more relaxed. They also recognize AKC titles. So once you have the title in AKC, you must show in B. 

UKC titles all go in front. I know it doesn't seem right, but that's how they do it. This is the Open All Star Obedience list as an example. Psst....check out who's number 12 in the country right now.....



*OPEN ALL STARS RANKINGS*
01. UUDX UOCH CH EL AL'S TATQIQ ATUQTUQSAMOYEDMaurneen Ozmore or Elsie Buhaly2902. UOCH HIGHROLLER CRAZY RED HEADGOLDEN RETRIEVERPamela Guzman2703. UUD FLINT'S SISSIUNRECOGNIZEDAustin Flint2303. UUD T-PINES ROLLIN' THUNDERGOLDEN RETRIEVERRoy Mashaney2305. UUD SCOCARS ATTA GIRL WINS THE GOLDROTTWEILERPam Long2006. UCDX OH WHAT A PEACHGOLDEN RETRIEVERCathy Hall1907. UUDX UOCH HIGH TIMES SAUCY'S STAR PACKETGOLDEN RETRIEVERChristy ****1708. HRCH UOCH BRASSFIRE'S YET ANOTHER CHANCEGOLDEN RETRIEVERAnita Raithel, Charles F Raithel1608. UUD BYDEBAY'S SMOOTH SAILINGGOLDEN RETRIEVERSally Ann Henry1610. UCDX REJOICE OF STONEY HILL FARMBOUVIER DES FLANDRESSandra Pierquet1311. UCDX TANBARK'S READY TO POUNCEGOLDEN RETRIEVERCathy S Hall1112. UCDX UACHX FAMILYAFFAIRS QUICKSILVER TORISTANDARD POODLEJulie Blake1012. UCDX URO3 TWINCREEK'S BLACK TIE AFFAIRGOLDEN RETRIEVERAngela Profitt10


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## goldielynn (Sep 5, 2020)

Very interesting! Thank you for all this information. I've just never seen a UKC title designation on any dog before so it just made me so curious. But looking at Tucker's ribbons from his performance -- looks somewhat like a more forgiving venue. In California, it doesn't look like UKC holds too many events out here.

I must say, at our first BPUP show, we felt very, very out of our element, but actually, there were a few people who came up to us (even our competitors) who were so sweet in giving us tips and training advice. We even exchanged information with another breeder (of labs) there and even have plans to meet up at another show later this month. The judge was also pretty patient as well. Windsor was not wanting to cooperate during examination. Lucky for us, our puppy is an incredibly quick learner, and turned his BPOS performance into a Group 1 performance at the next show. And while we were waiting from sporting group to best in puppy, some other people around us who were waiting for their turn to go into the ring were so nice to us, even giving our puppy some ice to chomp on to help him keep cool while we were waiting.

AKC shows definitely felt intimidating at first, but we found that all the owners and breeders there just love their dogs, and as long as you also love your dog, the atmosphere is pretty welcoming. I hope that doesn't change as our puppy goes up in classes though. We start official conformation class tonight, and our plan for now is to show him ourselves for the next few months, and then depending on what promise he shows, find a handler. We're very excited for this summer!


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Based on the context from Tucker's videos, they were just doing it for fun. Eevee's dad is an AKC GCH and just finished his UKC CH this past weekend. I think he has his Canadian CH too. His owner likes to show in the more relaxed venues for fun now that his AKC GCH is done.


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## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

goldielynn said:


> So we follow Tucker Budzyn (the famous golden retriever stealing America's heart on social media), and saw that he was trying his hand at his first conformation show this weekend. He competed in a UKC (United Kennel Club) show, which I didn't even know was a thing. I don't know why he would compete in a UKC show when he's in America, but wanted to pick all the experts' brains here as to why someone would go this route instead of AKC. Does the UKC have a different breed standard than the AKC? I only ask this because I think he's around 85 pounds, which is heavier than the breed standard for AKC.
> 
> We're new to the world of conformation and our puppy will now be competing in the 6-9 month puppy class after finishing two BPUP shows, and certain case studies, in particular the one prior thread about a poster's dog bite (and possible overbite), has been amazingly helpful to me learning more about the breed standard.


It’s much easier to gain UKC titles. Tucker is adorable but definitely lacks proper structure and would not do well in AKC shows. This may be the breeders attempt at advertising him as a champion even though he isn’t a great example of the breed.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

livduse said:


> It’s much easier to gain UKC titles. Tucker is adorable but definitely lacks proper structure and would not do well in AKC shows. This may be the breeders attempt at advertising him as a champion even though he isn’t a great example of the breed.


I don't think this is completely fair.... what I've seen of the dog, he has a very heavy coat + he's a little overweight. Heavy coat - probably would look better if the dog were groomed better. Overweight - maybe less nomnoms. 

The breeder - I don't know how active they are in showing AKC since you had a lot blow up a few years ago in connection to Chien D'or.


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## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Megora said:


> I don't think this is completely fair.... what I've seen of the dog, he has a very heavy coat + he's a little overweight. Heavy coat - probably would look better if the dog were groomed better. Overweight - maybe less nomnoms.
> 
> The breeder - I don't know how active they are in showing AKC since you had a lot blow up a few years ago in connection to Chien D'or.


That’s definitely possible! I think I came off a little harsh in that post. He’s darling, I’ve just noticed he’s long in the body, high tail set, lacking some substance, narrow in the front, and a bit unbalanced. Regardless, he’s a cutie!


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Why do y’all keep bringing up his breeder? Last I checked, Courtney Budzyn is his only owner. My impression was just that Courtney wanted to show him. I don’t think he’s being advertised as a stud, or am I missing something?


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## goldielynn (Sep 5, 2020)

I'm not sure what the breeder interplay is, but from watching his YouTube videos all throughout the pandemic (they were super uplifting in a time of so much uncertainty), his owner does want to breed him, and possibly keep a puppy from a future litter. Not sure if that's still the plan now though.


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## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

ArkansasGold said:


> Why do y’all keep bringing up his breeder? Last I checked, Courtney Budzyn is his only owner. My impression was just that Courtney wanted to show him. I don’t think he’s being advertised as a stud, or am I missing something?


I’m not 100% sure, but I think they are planning on breeding him.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Then it’s his owner that wants to breed him, not his breeder - I’m guessing anyway. I doubt getting a UKC CH has anything to do with it unless she is looking for a higher quality female and wants that UCH to help. I’m sure there are PLENTY of BYBs or B level ethical breeders that are just clamoring to be able to advertise Tucker Budzyn puppies. Lol

Edit Retracted. Clearly I don’t follow them closely enough to really know. LOL


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

His breeder has advertised him at stud on her kennel Facebook page and on other pages. His owner has been known to be very nasty to others in the past when people questioned his breeder advertising him at stud before he had clearances. I will give the benefit of the doubt though and hope she’s getting involved because it’s valuable and will help her learn if she wants to be taken seriously in the world of Goldens.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Emmdenn said:


> His breeder has advertised him at stud on her kennel Facebook page and on other pages. His owner has been known to be very nasty to others in the past when people questioned his breeder advertising him at stud before he had clearances. I will give the benefit of the doubt though and hope she’s getting involved because it’s valuable and will help her learn if she wants to be taken seriously in the world of Goldens.


Interesting and good to know. I guess I don’t follow them as closely as y’all do 😅 I found his k9data once and notice that his owner’s name was spelled wrong, presumably on purpose to make him harder to find. But that is the extent of my creeping besides what I see on Instagram.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Idk if a reputable breeder would even want a piece of that fanbase. Like we hear all the time how hard it is to for breeders to deal with everyday puppy buyers swarming their websites and inboxes for a sweet sweet puppy to own. Can you imagine the frothing from 4 million fans trying to get one of Tucker's "limited edition" offspring? Oh boy. It'll have to be a top secret thing cause both the dam owner will get flack and Tucker's owner will get flack from all the disgruntled people who wanted a puppy and didn't make the cut, if they do it publicly. And I hope if they do opt to breed him that they do the minimum clearances.


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## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Brave said:


> Idk if a reputable breeder would even want a piece of that fanbase. Like we hear all the time how hard it is to for breeders to deal with everyday puppy buyers swarming their websites and inboxes for a sweet sweet puppy to own. Can you imagine the frothing from 4 million fans trying to get one of Tucker's "limited edition" offspring? Oh boy. It'll have to be a top secret thing cause both the dam owner will get flack and Tucker's owner will get flack from all the disgruntled people who wanted a puppy and didn't make the cut, if they do it publicly. And I hope if they do opt to breed him that they do the minimum clearances.


Agreed, he’s also not a dog that should be bred in my opinion because of his improper structure.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

ArkansasGold said:


> Interesting and good to know. I guess I don’t follow them as closely as y’all do 😅 I found his k9data once and notice that his owner’s name was spelled wrong, presumably on purpose to make him harder to find. But that is the extent of my creeping besides what I see on Instagram.


I don't follow at all... LOL.

The baby dog talk videos give me twitches.  My one sister plays them when she wants to annoy me.

That said, I'm gonna be nice and point out that -

1. Owner got full clearances on him.
2. HIs pedigree is nothing to laugh about. Other than connections with XYZ.
3. He apparently is everything a golden should be. 

It's a shame she's hiding his pedigree considering those 2 items. Considering the latest mood of the general WQX public is away from purebred dogs and towards mutts with no clearances or anything, it's not the worst thing for somebody to be putting her dog out there and advertising quite nicely for the breed.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Megora said:


> Owner got full clearances on him.


Unless I'm looking at the wrong pedigree, Tucker is missing hearts and eyes.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Brave said:


> Unless I'm looking at the wrong pedigree, Tucker is missing hearts and eyes.


Correct. But many do not send those in to OFA. And or perhaps she couldn't get him in for those because of covid.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

livduse said:


> Agreed, he’s also not a dog that should be bred in my opinion because of his improper structure.


Honestly, I think you are fault judging him a bit. I’m super guilty of fault judging too, but get him properly show groomed, conditioned, and shown by someone that knows what they’re doing and he will look like a different dog. He’s not in show condition at all right now and so doesn’t really have the muscle memory he needs to gait nicely. Conditioning makes a huge difference in a lot of dogs. 



Megora said:


> It's a shame she's hiding his pedigree considering those 2 items. Considering the latest mood of the general WQX public is away from purebred dogs and towards mutts with no clearances or anything, it's not the worst thing for somebody to be putting her dog out there and advertising quite nicely for the breed.


I agree with this. I’m guessing they hide his pedigree (breeder even changed his call name in k9data to make him even harder to find) to keep people from positively knocking down his breeder’s door. When I have scrolled through the comments on Instagram, there are some crazies that follow him. His owner blocked out this past weekend’s show location so people wouldn’t stalk him. Then a bunch of people got offended, so she had to post another thing about how it wasn’t for the fans it was for the stalkers that might want to steal him and that she was sorry she offended the fans… I mean his fame is nuts! But I am super glad it’s a nice dog with a nice temperament that is representing our breed to quite literally millions of people.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Also, I wanted to add that after finding his pedigree again that his breeder regularly shows in UKC, Canada, and IABCA. So I don’t think she is showing him in UKC to put a CH in front of his name for marketing him as a stud. I mean he’s Tucker Budzyn for dog’s sake - he doesn’t need marketing. LOL Anyway, she properly records her dogs’ titles on k9data and doesn’t try to pass off Championships with other registries as AKC. 

On the flip side, Tucker’s mother is missing an elbow clearance. Here’s to hoping he gets hearts and eyes on OFA before being bred!


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Ha ha! I’ve tried looking for his k9 data page. I just assumed he didn’t have one!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Abeille said:


> Ha ha! I’ve tried looking for his k9 data page. I just assumed he didn’t have one!


I nearly posted it yesterday - but figured that would really be unkind to the owner who apparently has reasons for hiding his info. Who knows. People definitely are crazy.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Megora said:


> I nearly posted it yesterday - but figured that would really be unkind to the owner who apparently has reasons for hiding his info. Who knows. People definitely are crazy.


I imagine if I tried harder, I would find it. Like right now....I have nothing to do. Sometimes it's very slow at work!


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## goldielynn (Sep 5, 2020)

ArkansasGold said:


> Honestly, I think you are fault judging him a bit. I’m super guilty of fault judging too, but get him properly show groomed, conditioned, and shown by someone that knows what they’re doing and he will look like a different dog. He’s not in show condition at all right now and so doesn’t really have the muscle memory he needs to gait nicely. Conditioning makes a huge difference in a lot of dogs.


When you mention his grooming -- what in particular would help him look more "show ready" and help him to show off his features better? I notice that the feathering on his mane is very long, longer than many other dogs that I see in the ring and maybe that detracts from his chest, but with my novice eyes, that's the only big thing that I see.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

It would get stripped or heavily thinned out to bring it back to his chest.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

goldielynn said:


> When you mention his grooming -- what in particular would help him look more "show ready" and help him to show off his features better? I notice that the feathering on his mane is very long, longer than many other dogs that I see in the ring and maybe that detracts from his chest, but with my novice eyes, that's the only big thing that I see.


For one thing, his ears are over-trimmed + trimmed in the wrong places. I would do a TON of thinning on his coat. Shoulders, neck (all around), basically his entire front end. His underline also makes him look front heavy and unbalanced. I can't tell from the pinned stories on Instagram if his hocks are badly trimmed or just got messed up from showing outside. He also basically needs to never wear a buckle collar when at home. You can see where his collar sits on the back of his neck if you look closely. He could use conditioner in different places for his weekly baths (assuming he gets them weekly) like the back of his front legs, which lack feathering IMO. I'm telling you, put this dog in the hands of someone who shows competitively in AKC and he will look TOTALLY different.


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Megora said:


> It would get stripped or heavily thinned out to bring it back to his chest.


If it needs to be stripped and/or heavily thinned out to look correct would that not be considered an incorrect coat to begin with? I’m just curious, ....of course I do thin and strip minimally with my dogs, but they don’t have excessive coat so it’s not really “necessary” other than it just makes them look tidy, doesn’t actually remove much hair. I wonder where the line is drawn at excessive coat. Maybe if he’s never been groomed by a pro handler in a show groom it just gets unruly like that. If we’re talking about a breed who should be wash and wear you’d imagine that much trimming and thinning to be not ideal.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Megora said:


> I nearly posted it yesterday - but figured that would really be unkind to the owner who apparently has reasons for hiding his info. Who knows. People definitely are crazy.


 Found it with a little help.  I don't really see anything outstanding performance wise....


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

ArkansasGold said:


> For one thing, his ears are over-trimmed + trimmed in the wrong places. I would do a TON of thinning on his coat. Shoulders, neck (all around), basically his entire front end. His underline also makes him look front heavy and unbalanced. I can't tell from the pinned stories on Instagram if his hocks are badly trimmed or just got messed up from showing outside. He also basically needs to never wear a buckle collar when at home. You can see where his collar sits on the back of his neck if you look closely. He could use conditioner in different places for his weekly baths (assuming he gets them weekly) like the back of his front legs, which lack feathering IMO. I'm telling you, put this dog in the hands of someone who shows competitively in AKC and he will look TOTALLY different.


His groomer shaves his ears if I remember right. I doubt he gets weekly baths.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Abeille said:


> His groomer shaves his ears if I remember right. I doubt he gets weekly baths.


I have zero nice things to say about shaving ears.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Emmdenn said:


> If it needs to be stripped and/or heavily thinned out to look correct would that not be considered an incorrect coat to begin with? I’m just curious, ....of course I do thin and strip minimally with my dogs, but they don’t have excessive coat so it’s not really “necessary” other than it just makes them look tidy, doesn’t actually remove much hair. I wonder where the line is drawn at excessive coat. Maybe if he’s never been groomed by a pro handler in a show groom it just gets unruly like that. If we’re talking about a breed who should be wash and wear you’d imagine that much trimming and thinning to be not ideal.


I will say that I've seen dogs who have no coat at all - and that is just as incorrect as too much coat. 🤷‍♂️ 

I did say the dog appears to have excessive coat. Just pointing out how it can be groomed so that coat does not detract from the good that the dog has. It may be he has very nice structure? I honestly don't know because the pictures/videos make it very difficult to see really what is there behind that coat.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Megora said:


> I honestly don't know because the pictures/videos make it very difficult to see really what is there behind that coat.


^^ THIS


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

ArkansasGold said:


> I'm telling you, put this dog in the hands of someone who shows competitively in AKC and he will look TOTALLY different.


I agree. Even Lana looks super different between off show season and on show season. She's off getting herself groomed this week and I expect her to look much more clean cut. I anticipate a difference in ears mostly. I can never get her ears right. Or her feet for that matter. But that is part of why I pay a professional for his expertise.  



Abeille said:


> I doubt he gets weekly baths.


From what I've seen about their "bathing adventures" at DIY dog wash shops, I also doubt he gets weekly baths. But who knows how much is curated for the camera vs what is RL.


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Megora said:


> I will say that I've seen dogs who have no coat at all - and that is just as incorrect as too much coat. 🤷‍♂️
> 
> I did say the dog appears to have excessive coat. Just pointing out how it can be groomed so that coat does not detract from the good that the dog has. It may be he has very nice structure? I honestly don't know because the pictures/videos make it very difficult to see really what is there behind that coat.


Totally agree, and maybe that’s why (IMO) I don’t love his structure, the coat and grooming throw it off a bit. And just me, I’d rather have too much coat than not enough😏


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Emmdenn said:


> Totally agree, and maybe that’s why (IMO) I don’t love his structure, the coat and grooming throw it off a bit. And just me, I’d rather have too much coat than not enough😏


It makes him look like he skips leg day, but never upper body day.


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

ArkansasGold said:


> It makes him look like he skips leg day, but never upper body day.


HA hit the nail on the head 😂😂


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

ArkansasGold said:


> It makes him look like he skips leg day, but never upper body day.


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