# What would you do?



## greg bell (May 24, 2005)

I am not sure how old Gretzky is, but all my dogs that had a tendency to that, outgrew it..


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## greg bell (May 24, 2005)

how about an outdoor run to keep him in while you are gone.. my dogs have always had outside runs and they do fine out there and split the time outside and inside..


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## Denali and Gretzky's Mom (Jun 26, 2006)

The vet thinks Gretzky is about 20 months old. Denali is 2 and a half. The problem with an outside run is that we don't have anywhere to put access to the inside. Our house is fairly new and none of our trees give much shade yet. The yard gets very hot during the day and I am worried that they will get too hot. Thanks for the suggestion...I agree that he might outgrow it, but my husband apparently doesn't see it that way.


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## greg bell (May 24, 2005)

you dont need access to inside.. and vines work very well and grow fast to shade a kennel quite well.. and you can put somthing over the top to shade until the vines grow... 
it keeps them safe and out of trouble..


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

It sounds like your husband thinks Gretsky isn't a good fit. He doesnt sound committed to what it may take to make things work.

If it were me, if I couldn't get the commitment from my husband, then I'd let the pup find a home where he'd get two party commitment. I've been in a simular situation with a past dog, its not good on marriage and dog....

That is just What I would do....may not have anything to do with what's best for your situation and family.

Good luck to you.


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## sashac (Mar 13, 2006)

I agree with both Lucky's mom and greg bell - 2 party committment is key, but at the same time, it sounds like something that Gretzky could grow out of; he might just be in his "troubled teen" years. Besides, at the very least, he's young enough that you could still train it out of him.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

It might just be time to get rid of the husband.... I think that might be what my wife would do in the same situation.

I agree with Greg that an outdoor run would be the best option. Find something to cover it with until shade can grow, and just leave them lots of water (Greg uses 5 gallon buckets, bracketed to the fence so they don't tip over....right Greg?).

But with crating.....in my opinion, if they can't be trusted alone at home, they haven't earned the right not to be crated. But 8:30 - 5:00 would be a long stretch, without some kind of break....


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## Samwise (May 15, 2006)

I think Greg's suggestion is excellent if crate training is not an option. Is there someone you know who can come over halfway through the day to let the dogs out and perhaps walk them? I know several people who do this and it really is a lifesaver for them.

That's an awful long commute you have. I can really sympathize with you because when we lived in Phoenix, my commute was and hour and a half each way. I lived in town and worked in town. It was horrible.

Christi


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Everyone is right and that leaves me with nothing else to add EXCEPT...
How much exercise are they getting? and have you considered maybe a separation anxiety issue might be at the core? (no, not your husband, the dog... the RESCUED dog)

Additional comments: The commitment thing should have been settled BEFORE you guys accepted the dog... a kennel/dog run with a tarp tied down over the top would be an immediate solution and an alternative to returning the dog... but you should still realize that it only circumvents the problem and doesn't actually work on solving the issues of: Commitment, destructive chewing, exercise and possibly separation anxiety problems.


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## goldenstaples (Apr 3, 2006)

I agree with Greg a run is very helpful, my Golden has really come to enjoy hers. Was you leaving Denali out in the house before you adopted Gretzky?
If so how was he doing?


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

I agree with the others, particularly about the crating and separation anxiety. 

One thing to add: Don't wait to contact the rescue to ask for help. Explain the situation. They may have a behaviorist who can offer ideas. When we had problems with Jenna, our rescue group arranged to have a behaviorist visit us at a discount. 

These people also deal with rescues all the time. They may have some other insight.


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## mblondetoo (Jan 9, 2006)

I think it's a long time to leave the dogs alone, especially crated. I think the idea of a nice safe run outside is a great solution. It would be a shame either way to get rid of Gretzky. Then poor Denali will be alone all day and you will be the sole entertainment. You may have more problems then. At least give the run a try before you get rid of him (and of course plenty of exercise!)
Good luck!


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

I wanted to add a vote to the outside kennel. My neighbors have used it for their dogs, and its a much better environment then the crate. I would be careful to use it like a crate...only for when you are gone. I think they really need to be in the house learning rules as much as possible. 

Since we've had 105 to 108 temps....the neigbors HAVE kept the two dogs inside for those EXTREME temps. 

I had an outside dog who had the run of the yard that would dig a pit under a shrub and stay cool in those high above 100 temps, but a kenneled dog has less options. 

In winter I used lots of insulating bedding and straw around the dog house. We had two outside dogs that slept in the same dog house for warmth.


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## greg bell (May 24, 2005)

monomer is right.. mine gets so much exercise that I just never think of it.. a tired dog is a good dog..


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## VeronicaLovesHerGoldens (May 27, 2005)

Zazoo is home alone during the day while we work - every now and then something will be chewed or shredded when we get home but not to the extent where I consider it a problem. I make it a point to keep his basket of toys full and that's what I'll usually come home to. His toys laying all over the floor! As soon as I get home we go outside for a bit and then again after supper. I let him get enough exercise so that he's good and pooped for the night!!

I really think the boys will get over this phase - all you need is to convince your husband of that! Just use your feminine wiles and he'll come around!!!! You know we have to train our husbands just like we train our dogs!!! LOL!!!


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## goldencrazy (Dec 15, 2005)

Hi Denali and Gretzky's Mom - I really feel for you on this issue. There is nothing more I hate than having to crate my dog - well, except for having to deal with the damage done by not crating my dog! Everyone has already offered such great advice - the best being that a tired dog is a good dog - but I wanted to mention the great success we have had with doggy day care. The dogs get socialized, they have attention all day and they get so tired, it's all they can do to eat when they get home. Believe me, after a couple weeks at a day care your dog won't have the energy (or want) to be destructive. Just another suggestion for you! It would be a shame to take Gretzky back to the rescue! Our Tabitha was a rescue and in the beginning I wondered what the heck were we thinking, but now that her brian has started growing in, she is a delight. We are so glad we didn't give up on her!
Good luck with whatever you decide to do - no one can know your situation better than you!


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## Denali and Gretzky's Mom (Jun 26, 2006)

*Thank You*

I really appreciate everyone's feedback on our situation. I have a couple of questions:

Do you all put a dog house (or shelter of some kind) inside the kennel? What is the floor of the kennel? We have rock, grass and could easily have just dirt in our yard. Was creating the kennel expensive? (it's not that big of a deal, I would just like to know)

How many toys are you leaving out while your dogs are home alone? We leave them with all the toys we have, including bones, nylabones, rubber toys, a food cube, kongs, stuffed toys. It didn't seem to deter the chewing on inappropriate things. 

How much is doggie day care in your area, Goldencrazy? I have researched it a little here, and it is more than we can afford. Maybe I can do a little more research and find a suitable (inexpensive) place. Even if they go a couple days a week, that's better than not at all.

Denali and Gretzky DEFINITELY need more exercise (and so do I). I have made the commitment to walking them every evening, and my husband is pretty good about joining me. We take about an hour walk, plus play fetch in the house (if it's hot) or in the yard (if it's cool.) Sometimes in the mornings I take them to the park and play with the Chuck-It so they have some exercise in the morning. My husband feels like we can't even go out to dinner or leave the house in the evenings anymore because they have been alone during the day. Many times we will take them with us to grab a quick bite in the evening. I really want to get them back into training because I think it will help stimulate them mentally as well, plus they need it!


Ok, sorry this got so long. I'm just trying to process through this crappy situation. You all have such helpful suggestions and advice. I really appreciate the support. I think I will try to contact the rescue tonight and see what help they might be able to give. I think they would rather us try some different things than bring him back.


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## davebeech (Feb 11, 2006)

I hope you don't have to take him back, and sure that as they mature they will be just fine when you need to go out, the run outside sounds like a really good idea. Good Luck !!


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## sashac (Mar 13, 2006)

We get the same feeling about leaving Charlie at night, when he's been home during the day, so we rarely go out on those nights, unless Charlie can come with us. It's just like having a child I guess! 

My friend takes her pup to daycare and BOY does it tire him out!! I've never seen him sleep as much as he does after a day there. Not even a tennis ball or another dog could rouse him after that. Here in Northern California, it costs between 30-40 dollars a day, it is expensive. My friend got some kind of monthly plan which deducts about $5 a day, but its only worth it if you take him there regularly.


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## mblondetoo (Jan 9, 2006)

Here is a link to Tractor Supply for a few ideas for a run.

http://www.mytscstore.com/detail.asp?pcID=7&paID=1053&sonID=204


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## goldenstaples (Apr 3, 2006)

I bought my run from TSC and you can add as many panels as you want to make it as big as you want. Mine is 10ft. by 20ft. and I plan on eventually adding to it. What I have was a little over $300.00.


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## mojosmum (May 20, 2005)

Nichole - I'm confused. If you're not sure which dog it is causing the problems then why is it only Gretzky that's getting blamed? Could it just as easily be Denali? Or is it the two of them together? Are they able to roam freely through the house or are you able to confine them to one room? Since it doesn't sound like they are getting a lot of exercise in the a.m. before you both leave is it possible to have a dogwalker come in to let them out. There are agencies that have people that are bonded to do just this sort of thing. If that is too expensive then how about getting a senior to come over to play with them and take them out. It would be much cheaper than daycare and would give the senior something to do. Check out the local Senior's Residence or Community Halls to see if there's anyone interested. You could also see if there was a Mom in the area that would like to earn a few bucks by letting the dogs out and playing with them.

Then you have to get them in obedience. 

How sturdy would these outdoor runs be?


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## goldencrazy (Dec 15, 2005)

Doggy Day Care in this area (Cincinnati) seems to average around $20.00 a day as a rule. Maybe you could rotate your boys - leaving one behind every other day to recover in a crate (if needed). I really think your guys will eventually settle down and be okay. I sure would hate to see indoor loving goldens be out all day in a Colorado winter! But that's just me.


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## greg bell (May 24, 2005)

the floor of my runs are concrete.. have had them for 25 years.. they cant dig out and it cleans up easily.. dirt is bad because they can dig out... gravel will work, but hard to really get it clean...... there are also commercial floors you can buy, but I dont reacall what they are called..
yes.they need a dog house..but be sure to put a roof over the run over the house..that is a good escape route..on to the house, and up and over the fence... they need to be at least 6 feet tall for a golden... 
my dogs spend a lot of time on top of their house in the run.. 
the biggest danger of an outdoor run is that you leave them in there all the time.. my dogs spend a lot of the day out in the kennel and then come in during the evening or when there is inclimate weather..particularly exceedingly hot stuff... 
also get a padolock for the gate since you will be gone so nobody can come by and let em out... 
at first they will fuss about it, but will learn to really enjoy being outside and seeing the world go by.. when you get home from work, go get em out of the kennel and let em in with you.. it makes for a good balance.. personally, i think they are much better off and happier out in their runs than spending the day in the house alone..


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

I would think it is probably the two of them "playing" together that is causing the destruction. And if the one goes, the other may continue it out of boredom. Just never know.


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## DelmarvaGold (Mar 7, 2006)

I personally do not think it is Gretzky's fault. I think that when BOTH boys are together that's when the fun begins. It's like having kids. One child by themself could be an angel but when paired with another........:uhoh: These boys are still very young and depending on the pedigrees could take a while to mentally mature.
I vote for the outside run. They are available at your local Home Depot or Lowes. A sunshade on top and even one on the side or vines (which is an excellent suggestion and could be quite attractive) would provide shade. I would build in the end a dog house (or run in as the horses have) in case some inclement weather approaches while you are working. The base could be pea gravel or kennel deck which is easily santized and keeps the dogs off the ground which could become muddy and have you bathing/rinsing dogs when you come home after a long day of working.


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## goldenstaples (Apr 3, 2006)

greg bell said:


> the floor of my runs are concrete.. have had them for 25 years.. they cant dig out and it cleans up easily.. dirt is bad because they can dig out... gravel will work, but hard to really get it clean...... there are also commercial floors you can buy, but I dont reacall what they are called..
> yes.they need a dog house..but be sure to put a roof over the run over the house..that is a good escape route..on to the house, and up and over the fence... they need to be at least 6 feet tall for a golden...
> my dogs spend a lot of time on top of their house in the run..
> the biggest danger of an outdoor run is that you leave them in there all the time.. my dogs spend a lot of the day out in the kennel and then come in during the evening or when there is inclimate weather..particularly exceedingly hot stuff...
> ...


Greg,
I am always afraid concrete will get too hot? How do you keep it from getting hot, I have a shade tree over my run but I still think the concrete would get hot?


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## greg bell (May 24, 2005)

as long as it is shaded, it is ok.. my kennels are very well shaded..


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## Logan's Mom (Jul 10, 2005)

It would be too easy if you added a second dog to your home and everything went smoothly, especially from a rescue! I took in a female rescue golden that was in TN, transported to NH with little history, Katie 2-3yrs. Adopted her on June 21st. We have had Logan since 8 weeks, he is 4 now. The last couple of weeks when we came home we would find a chewed shoe, dog brush, newspapers and mail. Pre Katie this was not an issue. 
Who knows who is to blame. Changes we have made that have positively helped with the destruction is exercise, exercise and exercise. Not back yard running around. Out of the yard for walks, minimum of 20 minutes. Getting rid of the energy before you leave is helpful. We also purchased Comfort Zone with DAP (dog appeasing phermones) it plugs into the wall and omits phermones similar to what a mum would send out to her pups. Is suppose to help with stress behaviors. With just these 2 changes we have been incident free our last 5 outings. We also only left for short periods of time initially and have worked our way up to 3 hours. If we are going to be gone longer then 4 hours we have a pet walker come over. Anywhere from $15-$23 for 30-60min for someone to walk and play. We also have doggie day care which is $30/day, have not tried that. 
I hope you guys can hang in for the adjustment period, the reward on the other side is huge!
Best of luck


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## Denali and Gretzky's Mom (Jun 26, 2006)

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. We decided to keep the dogs gated in separate areas of the house when we aren't around, for now. We are working with them on leaving them for shorter periods of time. Also, we have been going for at least one walk a day, but two walks on most days. One in the morning and one at night. It seems to be helping, as we haven't had an incident yet. 

It turns out that the culprit on the chewing was Denali, not Gretzky. One evening while we were out, Gretzky pushed his gate over and was out alone in the house. When we came home I was sure I was going to find a huge mess, but he had not touched a thing! Everything was exactly where it should be, and it was obvious that he had been playing with their toys. After that, there was no question that we would be keeping both dogs. My husband had to eat some crow on that one. But I think he is really happy to be keeping Gretzky, and they have become great friends.

I have been praising them a ton for playing with their toys, and we have been taking them with us a lot wherever we go. When school starts in a few weeks, we have a friend with two young girls who said they will be willing to come over and let them out as soon as school is over. I think everyone will he happier that way!

Anyway, thanks for the help and suggestions, you guys are the best!


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

Any updates on how the boys are doing?


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## HovawartMom (Aug 10, 2006)

I'm happy for you and your dogs.Having 2 dogs is great but can be a lot of work.


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## Denali and Gretzky's Mom (Jun 26, 2006)

gold'nchocolate - Thanks for asking about the dynamic duo! They are doing much better, but they still can't be trusted for any length of time by themselves in the house. If we have to be gone for a while, they have separate areas and they are doing fine with that. They have become great buddies...they love to play, wrestle and snuggle together! It is a lot of fun to have two dogs and they are the best buddies anyone could ask for!


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## MILLIESMOM (Aug 13, 2006)

We dont crate Millie anymore I stopped when she was three, but Pearl does get Crated even if we are outside and cannot watch her for longer than five minutes. She gets frustrated and chews little things. When we have to leave them for any length of time when we come back we say our hellos and then they go lay down. When we were both working the dogs were home from 6:30 til 3:30, this was Millie and my other Golden Brandy we would come home from work and spend at least 1 hour with them playing, then dinner and after we would all hang out together watching the news, or sitting outside. This seemed to satisfy their need for attention pack style. It was a routine and it seemed to work they knew they would get attention and not be left out. Pearl is pretty good but she is still a youngster yet nineteen months. Here is one of her episodes she had yesterday while John was outside supervising the job of the pole barn we had put up. She could see him but she still throws tantrums. As you can see she knows she was bad.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Uh oH....pearl looks very guilty. I know that look very well......


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Denali and Gretzky's Mom said:


> gold'nchocolate - Thanks for asking about the dynamic duo! They are doing much better, but they still can't be trusted for any length of time by themselves in the house. If we have to be gone for a while, they have separate areas and they are doing fine with that. They have become great buddies...they love to play, wrestle and snuggle together! It is a lot of fun to have two dogs and they are the best buddies anyone could ask for!



I'm so happy its working out. You sound VERY much more relaxed!!!!


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