# can anyone confirm that I've found a great breeder in Ont.



## cbrett (Dec 26, 2009)

Hi there,
After a LOT of searching we think we have found a breeder here in Ontario that fits everything we are looking for; she seems to be someone who genuinely cares about her dogs, and breeds very carefully. Stormynights Goldens is the name of the kennel, and the owner/breeder seems wonderful. I have been reading all the posts here on different Ontario breeders, and how to get the info on sire and dam health clearances and genetic lines etc. As someone who knows very little about this, I'm still finding it a little difficult. I would love to hear from anyone who has had experience with/knows about Stormynights. Also, any expert advice on the following sires and dams: 
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=349159
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=135658
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=256972
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=260985


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## esSJay (Apr 13, 2009)

I've heard plenty of great things from Stormynights! There are a few Stormynights pups on the forum here. 
*Mad's Mom*'s Maddie
*timberwolf*'s Timber

They are both relatively active members, so you could probably send them a PM if you have any questions about their experiences.


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## cbrett (Dec 26, 2009)

Thanks EsSJay.! 
Actually, what I'm most confused about is how to read clearances etc. I read on this board about "moderate" or "fair" or "good" etc, but on k9 I read OVC and then a number, or just the word "clear". I think its very likely just because I really have no idea what I'm doing, but would love any help on understanding whether the dogs I posted above and their pedigrees in these lines do in fact have the right clearances. Quite frankly, the reason I am not just asking this breeder these questions herself has nothing to do with whether I think she will answer them honestly because I have loved my experience with her so far and trust her. It has everything to do with the fact that I really don't want to become the crazy lady who keeps bugging her every time I have a question.... I'd be calling every day and driving her mad I have never owned a dog before, and am one of those people who has the potential to become a little obsessed with finding out all I can about something before entering in I am impressed with myself for how much I've learned already, but the clearance, pedegree stuff is still baffling me!!!!! I DO know that my friend who paid $2600 for her pup because he is an "English Cream" got hosed though...so see, I AM learning


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## Osogold (Jan 3, 2009)

OVC-do not grade hips "moderate" "fair" "good" etc like OFA...when OVC reads hips or elbows you get a pass or a fail...if you receive a number you have a pass.


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## esSJay (Apr 13, 2009)

cbrett said:


> Thanks EsSJay.!
> Actually, what I'm most confused about is how to read clearances etc. I read on this board about "moderate" or "fair" or "good" etc, but on k9 I read OVC and then a number, or just the word "clear". I think its very likely just because I really have no idea what I'm doing, but would love any help on understanding whether the dogs I posted above and their pedigrees in these lines do in fact have the right clearances.


To start you off, let's pull up the first k9data link you sent, for Crush. 

To check up her Hip clearance, which was done by OFA, go to their website, www.offa.org, click on "Search OFA Records" on the left side, and type in either her registration number or her name. Here I've typed in her CKC registered name, "Stormynights Made for Lovin' U" , selected Golden Retriever and then Search. 

THIS page comes up with any OFA records for her. We can see that she has both hips and elbows through OFA. Clicking into the hips record, it will list any siblings that have had OFA clearances, and you can also click on "vertical pedigree" at the top where you may be able to go through parents and previous generations if they are linked. If they aren't, you can repeat the same search by using the sire and dam further back in their pedigrees and running their names through OFA as well.

As for the OFA clearance number that they are given, it gives a lot of information itself. I'll have to look up a previous thread where I remember AmbikaGR posted it a few months ago. 

This is the OFA number for Crush's hips: GR-99624E43F-VPI

Breaking it down,
*GR* - the breed (Golden Retriever)
*99624* - the number of dogs of this breed that have been screened by OFA (I think?)
*E* - the rating of the clearance (in this case, Crush is "Excellent". Other acceptable ratings are: Fair and Good. Non-acceptable ratings are Mild or Moderate - or none at all!)
*43* - the age, in months, of the dog at the time of the clearance (so Crush was about 3½ yrs old at this clearance)
*F* - sex of the dog (Male/Female)
*VPI - *I think this has to do with the way the dog is permanently identified (whether a microchip or tattoo).

Here is a link to another thread that talks about how to read clearances: http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=17123 

And here is another one that shows what a clearances looks like (for when you go to meet the breeder in person, you can see exactly what you are looking for): http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=71378

Hopefully that gets you off to a good start. Let us know if you have any more questions that we can help you out with!


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## cbrett (Dec 26, 2009)

Wow!!! THANK YOU so much!!! This is really helpful!!!!!!!!!!


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

Hi cbrett!!!
I've been working on overload and just now had the chance to take a look at the forum! That's so not like me 

So, you are looking at a Stormynights pup.
I'm the proud owner of one and cannot say enough about my boy and his breeder.
Kim is great, always available to answer any questions, and like you said, she cares.

Timber is our pride and joy and we couldn't love this guy anymore!!!
I've included his K9Data site so you can take a look. 
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=339033
The picture is Tim at about 7 months - I know, you wouldn't know he was such young pup!!!

Kim has a litter on the ground right now - beautiful pups, I would grab one in a second if I could.
The dam of this litter is Timber's Mom - Sprout. 

If you have any questions, I am more than happy to answer.
I am so excited for you!!!!! Good Luck


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Kim is terrific: dedicated, thorough and really cares about her dogs. I happily refer folks to her when I get inquiries. Temperament and health are important priorities--I will likely see her this weekend at my club's annual health screening clinic!!


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

cbrett, I should have mentioned - the last K9data you quoted is Ryder, Timber's Dad


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## cbrett (Dec 26, 2009)

Thanks everyone!! I am very confident we have chosen a GREAT breeder!! And now I am getting the hang of all this health stuff too!

Timberwolf, we actually found Kim THROUGH Ryder! He is a beautiful dog and my kids met him through another breeder and fell in love with him! What did Kim send you home with (paperwork, etc) when you brought Timber home (great name by the way).


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

Hi cbrett,
Thanks for the compliment on Timber's name. As soon as we said it out loud, we knew that was it. And, it really suits him!!!

Ryder is a beautiful boy, isn't he? We didn't have the chance to see him personally, he was at Ashmar Goldens when we went to meet Timber and when we went to bring him home. Hopefully, some day we will get the chance, maybe when we get the second one Yes, we are planning on adding another!!! 

Kim is fabulous. She is so thorough when you go to pick your pup up. She sat with me for at least an hour, just going over his contract, his pedigree, answering any questions I had.
We came home with a binder with Timber's picture, at 8 weeks, on the front, as well as all the litter information and his birth information on the front.
Inside is included his pedigree, pictures of his Mom and Dad as well as copies of all their clearances. Included was a CD of pictures of the litter from birth to pick up time.
She includes a wealth of information in that binder that pretty much covers everything.
We came home with his health records along with the rest of the worming medicine she was giving him, puppy food, treats, toys.

She is great and I would and do totally recommend Kim and her pups to anyone and everyone!!!

Keep me updated on how you make out.
Love those Stormynight pups 
Here's a couple of my fave of Timber as a pup!


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## cbrett (Dec 26, 2009)

OMG...... this makes the wait THAT much harder!!!!! ADORABLE!!!!!!!
Who is Timber's mom? 
We met Ryder thru Margaret at Ashmar, who is also amazing! You will have to keep me posted as to when you are getting your next pup...maybe they will be cousins or even littermates!


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

I know!!! He was such a cutie - a real puff ball 
Timber's Mom is Sprout (Stormynights Mon Petite Chou).
She's a beauty with an amazing temperament.
As for when we are getting the next one, the forum will definitely be the first to know!!!

Do you know when you will be getting a pup?
Does Kim have plans to use Ryder soon?
He produces such beautiful babies I would love to get another offspring of his.
He's got quite the pedigree too!
As well, here must be a very distinct look in the line as well.
We have a park in our city that is about 100 acres.This park is home to our area kennel club's annual dog show so for about a week, the park is full of dogs, handlers and breeders (there is a campground there so they just stay in the park).
We had Timber down there during this time, he would have been about 6 months.
A gentleman called us over, asked us if Timber was registered to compete.
The guy used to breed goldens, but was now just showing his own dogs and handling for others.
After checking Timber out, and telling us that if he was entered, he thought Timber would take the puppy class each day (for which my pride just exploded) and then he started asking us about his pedigree.
He told me to check out his lineage when I got home and look for Prospector's Great Expectations - they called him Dickens. He said by the head on Timber and the way he was built and carried himself, that there had to be some Prospector in his lines.
Well, I checked his pedigree out and Dickens is Timber's great-great-great grandfather!!!
It floored us. Here we are in Owen Sound, with our pup we bought from a breeder in Barrie, and this guy from Windsor was able to connect the line from a breeder on the East Coast!!!! It was crazy!
Unfortunately, all it did was to add to my obsession of Timber and goldens


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## cbrett (Dec 26, 2009)

Small world!!! So are you showing Timber now?
We are in Ontario too: Oakville.
Ryder was supposed to be bred by Margaret from Ashmar to another Ashmar dog with puppies this spring but the pregnancy didn't take. We were pretty sad and are hoping for a pup from Kim. 
Thanks for all the info. Sounds like Kim is super thorough.


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

No, Timber will not be shown - at least for confirmation - he is being neutered on Friday.
I am hoping to try our hand, and paws, in obedience though.
I can imagine how disappointed you must have been.
Hopefully, there will be a Stormynights pup in your near future!!!
Keep me updated!!!


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## cbrett (Dec 26, 2009)

We met with Kim from Stormynights this weekend. She is super! With all she has going on over there btwn dogs and babies... I should NEVER complain if I feel "swamped"!!!!!!! Although she does have two beautiful litters on the ground right now who need homes, we are going to wait until school starts up again in the fall, as we are too busy and never around in the summer, so it is not the right time for us to be taking care of and training a brand new pup! But we sure did have fun playing with the puppies


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

I know!!! She is amazing - I don't know how she does it 
And I can well imagine how much fun the puppies were. 
Good call on waiting for the fall. 
Timber was born Jan 14th so we were able to bring him home March 14th and that worked really well for us.
Got alot of the early puppy stuff like housetraining out of the way before summer kicked in.
Keep me updated on how you make out. I can't wait to see what puppy joins your family


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## Mad's Mom (Oct 28, 2008)

I hadn't seen this post until now. Good for you for recognizing the timing needs to be right for bringing home a puppy, and especially for being able to stick to it when surrounded by all those cute puppies. I have no doubt the litter your pup comes from will be just as gorgeous as those Kim has now! Of course Mad is a Stormynights girl, so I may be biased.

Kim is amazing. My brother who went with me to pick up Mad commented on how calm she was in the midst of controlled chaos. She has been a very supportive breeder, and is a wonderul person.

I look forward to hearing about you pup when you bring him or her home.


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## jenniferc (Apr 23, 2010)

This thread has been very useful as I am going to meet Kim in a couple weeks to check out her puppies (thanks timberwolf for the suggestion)! cbrett, she may have a litter in early August and will know in a couple weeks if the pregnancy took. For some reason, it never occurred to me that the planned litters might not happen! Now I'm worried that there may not be puppies when we are ready for them.

Good luck in your search for a golden!


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

jenniferc, good luck with your puppy search.
Which litter are you going to see? The dam of the first litter is Timber's Mom, Sprout and those puppies right now are to die for!!!
I so wish we were ready to add another one but right now neither my hubby or myself are ready to share our "Timber Time"


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## Mad's Mom (Oct 28, 2008)

timberwolf said:


> I so wish we were ready to add another one but right now neither my hubby or myself are ready to share our "Timber Time"


I'm with you on that, I look at those beautiful pups and want one, but on the other hand right now I love my Mad time! I am however sure there is another Stormynights in my future.


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## jenniferc (Apr 23, 2010)

Timberwolf, we will be seeing Cash & Sprout's puppies and yes, they are adorable! We're not ready for the puppy in May, but perhaps we will be available for Cash and Nova, more likely for Crush and Chance's puppies!

I wanted to ask you and Mad's Mom if you had any health problems with your dogs? Even minor ones like ear infections? Just so I have an idea of what to expect as I have never had a dog!


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## esSJay (Apr 13, 2009)

jenniferc said:


> I wanted to ask you and Mad's Mom if you had any health problems with your dogs? Even minor ones like ear infections? Just so I have an idea of what to expect as I have never had a dog!


Keep in mind that because goldens have long hanging ears, in addition to other factors such as swimming, allergies, and even the type of food they are eating, goldens are generally more prone than other breeds to get ear infections to begin with. Routine ear care and cleanings can really help reduce and/or prevent them. Some dogs do get chronic and very frequent ear infections though, which isn't normal and could be an inherited health problem from a parent.


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

jenniferc, we've never had a problem so far with Timber's health.
We just had him neutered on April 16th and he came through that with flying colors. By April 17th, you wouldn't have known that this guy had just had surgery!!!!


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## jenniferc (Apr 23, 2010)

Thanks, timberwolf! I'm really excited to meet the dogs next week at Stormynights; I never dreamed finding a puppy would be so involving. I'm really concerned about getting a nice, healthy pup that will keep us company for a long time coming.


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## Mad's Mom (Oct 28, 2008)

I believe Maddie is a unique girl as all of her littermates are fine and healthy, as are her parents previous litters, but my girl does have a kidney defect. Mad was diagnosed when she had a UTI at 16 months, but at this point continues to be a happy and healthy girl.

As I said, I believe that Mad is a one-off, but as you are inquiring, I wanted to give you the information. Kim has been incredibly responsible and supportive. She asked to be able to talk to the internal medicine specialist who diagnosed Mad. He was skeptical as I think he has alot of "breeders" who give him trouble about diagnosis. After he talked to her, he commented that they'd had a great talk, and her only concern was about the dogs and getting information. 

In every other way Mad is great, good hips, no allergies or ear infections, and a great temperment. She is a much loved member of the family, and I have no doubt there is another Stormynights pup in my future.


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

Here's a pic of Timber at 15 months.
I have to tell you, we get stopped constantly on the street by people commenting on how beautiful he is! Many of them mention that he mustn't be from around here because his look is so different from the goldens in town. 
What a compliment to Timber and especially to Kim!!!


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## Mad's Mom (Oct 28, 2008)

And they should stop you and tell you how beautiful he is, cause he is! Mad and Timber look very different, with my girl being a little more slight, but we get the same thing all the time. I was e-mailing with Kim this week and mentioned we were both on the site, and she agreed that Timber is very handsome, and she mentioned what a great Mom you are!


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## esSJay (Apr 13, 2009)

timberwolf said:


> Here's a pic of Timber at 15 months.
> I have to tell you, we get stopped constantly on the street by people commenting on how beautiful he is! Many of them mention that he mustn't be from around here because his look is so different from the goldens in town.
> What a compliment to Timber and especially to Kim!!!





Mad's Mom said:


> And they should stop you and tell you how beautiful he is, cause he is! Mad and Timber look very different, with my girl being a little more slight, but we get the same thing all the time. I was e-mailing with Kim this week and mentioned we were both on the site, and she agreed that Timber is very handsome, and she mentioned what a great Mom you are!


I have yet to meet Timber in person but I think he is one of the most handsome pups on here from the pics I've seen, and after meeting Maddie in person many times at our meets, she definitely has a slightly different look to her than other goldens but she is one of the most beautiful female pups I've ever seen! Those eyes of hers are killer!

They are definitely influencing me towards maybe getting a Stormynights pup in the future!


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

Mad's Mom said:


> And they should stop you and tell you how beautiful he is, cause he is! Mad and Timber look very different, with my girl being a little more slight, but we get the same thing all the time. I was e-mailing with Kim this week and mentioned we were both on the site, and she agreed that Timber is very handsome, and she mentioned what a great Mom you are!


That is too funny!!! When I read your post, I was in the middle of baking dog food in a mini muffin tin! Timber loves those treats 
Can you say "spoiled much!" 
Can you say "Sherri get a life!" :doh:


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## jenniferc (Apr 23, 2010)

My husband just saw the pictures of Timberwolf and Maddie and immediately issued an, "AWWWW!" He's so excited to meet Kim tomorrow; I spoke to another breeder (Kyon Kennels) and he said Kim was a good breeder, too.

Anyone know anything about that kennel?


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## cbrett (Dec 26, 2009)

jenniferc: did you find out if the early aug. litter is a go? Did the pregnancy take? I hope so!!!!!! Keep us posted!!!!


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## jenniferc (Apr 23, 2010)

I saw Kim last Sunday and she was 95% sure that the pregnancy had taken. She said she would confirm by last Friday or this week if the pregnancy had taken. If it has, the puppies will be BEAUTIFUL as the parents are very lovely.


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## cbrett (Dec 26, 2009)

jenniferc; any news on whether the pregnancy took?? We have been waiting to hear back from Kim on a different litter and haven't heard but I'm wondering if it's because she is busy dealing with a possible new pregnancy??? Nothing on the website to confirm yet.... Are the parents you met Crush and Chance? They are both beautiful!!!!!


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## jenniferc (Apr 23, 2010)

Hi cbrett, the pregnancy did take and Crush and Chance's puppies are due next week and go home on the Civic Holiday weekend! I really want one from that litter but unfortunately, I'm going away shortly after the puppies come home so we have decided to hold off until Kim's fall litter. We are most likely going to be taking home a boy from Fame and Ryder in mid-October.


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## cbrett (Dec 26, 2009)

We are taking a pup from Ryder's litter as well!! From what I have been led to beleive from this forum, you will not be sorry that you waited for this litter!! We have met Ryder before, thru Margaret at Ashmar, and he is hands down the most beautiful golden I have ever met in my life. My children fell in love with him!!! Where do you live? Maybe we can have puppy play dates


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

jenniferc and cbrett - I AM SO JEALOUS!!!!!
I really wish we were ready for another pup - I would jump at the chance for one of that litter - unfortunately, neither my hubby or myself are ready to share our "Timber Time" 

Fame and Ryder are sure to produce gorgeous pups!!!
Your puppies and Timber will be sharing the same Grandma's on both sides!!!
Legacy and Keeper  Both beautiful dogs.

Keep me updated on these puppies and I'll tag along for the ride   
And maybe Timber will join in for that play date!!!


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## Mad's Mom (Oct 28, 2008)

So I have to wait until Fall to hear about another little Stormynights pup growing up on the forum (with the exception of course of the handsome Timber who's still growing up)?Maybe someone from one of the new litters will join. There's another Stormynights beauty in my future, but like Sherri, not ready to give up the one on one time.

Glad you are both waiting until the right litter for you, and looking forward to seeing your pups.


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## Laura Way (May 25, 2009)

I am so pleased for you all that are purchasing a pup from Stromynights. Kim is wonderful and has some lovely dogs and bitches. 

Her Crush's Sire Can CH Grenadier Norhern Alliance (Argyle) was produced by my bitch Can CH Greanider How Green My Valley x Am. CH Pebwin XPDNC. Meg was my foundation bitch whom I co owned with Lisa McCabe Boyer (Grenadier Goldens) back then. I was able to own Meg out right after producing Argyles litter. Arglye has even produced a pup that his owner is wheel chair bound and shows in field with him! Meg went onto produce 2 other lovely litters with 2 sires from Trowsnest Goldens. 

I will state that you will have a puppy with wonderful temperment and health. Meg is a wonderful bitch with many wonderful qualities in temperment, health and type. Argyle was pick pup in his litter out of 10 pups and has gone onto his championships, a wonderful friend and companion to Lisa, and has produce wonderful pups in his own right too. 

I don't think anyone would go wrong with a pup out of Crush or any puppy from Kim. 

Best to all and enjoy!


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## cbrett (Dec 26, 2009)

thanks everyone

I met Chance and Crush when I visited Kim, and although they really are beautiful dogs, they won't be the parents of my puppy because of timing. We will be taking a pup from the Ryder / Fame litter. I had met Ryder a year ago and ADORE him, and we loved meeting Fame a few months ago as well! We are SO excited at the prospect of having a puppy produced by these two gorgeous dogs!!!!


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## jenniferc (Apr 23, 2010)

cbrett, that's awesome that our puppies will be from the same litter! I am moving in September to North York--it's the most expensive dog house ever as we have bought a house specifically so we can let our dog grow up in it (we live in a condo right now). We didn't get to see Ryder because he was at Ashmar's, but it's good to know you've seen him and loved him. It's too bad Crush and Chance's litter is so late in the summer as I would love to own one by mid-summer, but it's better that we're waiting (I know this, I'm just impatient!). Whereabouts are you?

Autumndays65--thanks for all the information, it's darling to hear that your dogs are able to show in field along with someone in a wheelchair!

To everyone else who has posted, THANK YOU! It's really reassuring for new dog owners-to-be to hear testimony from other previous Stormynights owners. We are infinitely excited and can't wait for October to come. Will post many photos!


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

Like I said previously, the Fame/Ryder litter is sure to be beautiful!!!
I'm so excited for both of you!!!!!


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## cbrett (Dec 26, 2009)

Ha, that's funny. We are equally insane jenniferc! As of yesterday, we will be moving in Sept as well.... just in time to welcome an Oct. pup to the chaos!!!! I am STRESSED about having all that going on around the same time...just need to make sure we are well moved in and established before the puppy comes home!! We are in Oakville.
Good to know there will be someone on this board that might be as neurotic as me in Oct!!!!


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## cbrett (Dec 26, 2009)

jenniferc; any news on fame??


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## jenniferc (Apr 23, 2010)

cbrett, I just left a message with Kim to see if she can confirm the pregnancy has taken so we'll know if we are expecting a puppy in October. Sounds like this fall will be a madhouse for both of us! I'm sure it'll be worth it though when we have our nervous breakdowns in November!


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## cbrett (Dec 26, 2009)

Thanks Jen.C. I had emailed her a couple of weeks ago asking this as well, and she said it was too soon..... so hopefully by the time you have let her a message she knew more, and there is some news??!!!!


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## jenniferc (Apr 23, 2010)

I haven't heard from Kim yet, but I checked the website and I suppose she's busy dealing with Crush and Chance's litter. So cute! I'm so eager to have our own puppy to lavish attention on and photograph!


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## jenniferc (Apr 23, 2010)

cbrett --just got some bad news from Kim: the Fame/Ryder breeding did not take )o: Alas, we may have to wait longer than we hoped for a pet. Did you have any backup breeders?


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

Guys, I am so sorry to hear that!
They would have made beautiful babies.
But, as I've always believed, everything happens for a reason.
Your puppy is out there.
Keep us posted!!!


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## esSJay (Apr 13, 2009)

Sorry to hear the news . I'm sure those Stormy pups would have been beautiful!

In an earlier thread you mentioned that you were considering In The Pink, out of Hillsdale (near Barrie). Are they still a prospect of yours? Sandi bred Nelly (my Molson's mom) with the very handsome Marley a couple of weeks ago, for pups to go home mid-November, and in a few weeks will also be breeding Jugs with Echo for mid-December homes.


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## jenniferc (Apr 23, 2010)

Yes, we are very disappointed but as Timberwolf says, everything happens for a reason and we have just made a deposit on the In the Pink litter that is due only a couple of weeks after Fame was due (Halloween weekend instead of mid-October). Keeping my fingers crossed that this litter takes!


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## cbrett (Dec 26, 2009)

Hi JenniferC
We are actually traveling around Newfoundland right now, and did get the sad news about Fame and Ryder's litter. This is the second time this has happened to us, so we have been on the puppy waiting train since just after Christmas last year. It's hard, and especially hard on my 2 little boys who have been EXTREMELY patient in this crazy waiting game!!!
I think you and I were in the same boat re the Chance and Crush litter in terms of bad timing due to being away, but we are now considering taking the pup left from that litter anyway, which would mean getting it late. I have spent SO much time researching breeders and sires and dams, and I am exhausted even thinking about going back and researching for a third time!!!! I just love Kim, and really trust her.....which I have found hard to do on this journey when you hear so many sad sad stories of new puppy owners who have been "dooped". I will say that we did at one point look into In the Pink after our first failed dog pregnancy, and we really really liked her. The timing of the litter she had coming up at that time was no good for us as puppies were going home just before March Break and we had a 2 1/2 week trip planned for that time and would not have been able / wanted to leave a pup at such an early age. I would definitely feel comfortable taking a pup from one of her litters too !!!!!! Good luck and keep in touch...and I'll do the same!


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## jenniferc (Apr 23, 2010)

I saw a goldie puppy this past weekend and he only looked 8 weeks old (he was all ears!); I immediately wondered if he was from Crush and Chance's litter. I think if you got the leftover pup, you would be very happy, even if you missed a couple weeks. 

My husband is heartbroken that we have to wait, even though we're only waiting two more weeks for the ITP pet!


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

cbrett and jenniferc - keep us posted on "your" puppies!!!


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## cbrett (Dec 26, 2009)

Oh, I'm sure I'll do a lot more than just keep you posted As this girl runs around the East Coast trying to enjoy her last weeks of freedom for a little while, I'll also be stressing about getting ourselves organized to bring a little ball of fluff into our family. Not quite as much time as I was hoping to give myself.... but we can do it!!!! I'm sure I'll be on here tons asking for help and advice!!!! And welcoming any you all have to offer 
And then, JenniferC... I can pass all my words of wisdom on to you in October (ha ha, let's hope I still have some hair on my head by then).


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## jenniferc (Apr 23, 2010)

I look forward to hearing about your adventures! Between moving and a new puppy, we'll both be pretty hairless come November!


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## jenniferc (Apr 23, 2010)

Oh no! The litter that we put a deposit on with In the Pink is a singleton and there's no puppy for us! Sandi has given us the options of waiting for one of her later litters, but we really wanted a puppy this year and her next litter may not be ready to go home until January 2011. Her brother has a litter on the ground ready to go home first week of October, but our deposit will not be transferred to that litter. Has anyone heard of Dancer Golden Retrievers? All I can find online is a Facebook page.

Alternatively, Stormynights' Penny is pregnant and should have puppies ready to go home end of November, which works best for us timing wise. But do we want to go through the uncertainty of not knowing if we'll get a puppy for sure???

My husband is heartbroken that things are turning out so difficult.


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## Kwk (Nov 1, 2009)

Sorry to hear the bad news. I am not sure if all the pups are spoken for already but you may want to check but Animation Acres as they are expecting a litter on September 21st. 

I personally think the sire of the litter is an amazing dog and I don't think his pictures do him justice. I am admittedly biased as it is Skye's dad but he is one of the main reasons we wanted a puppy from her litter. I haven't seen the mom in person but she looks gorgeous in her picture and she is the daugher of Neo who was Canada's number one golden last year.


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## eeneymeanymineymo (Oct 5, 2009)

Here is their website:

http://dancergoldens.yolasite.com/contact-us.php

Sorry to hear your puppy plans have changed.


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## esSJay (Apr 13, 2009)

jenniferc said:


> Oh no! The litter that we put a deposit on with In the Pink is a singleton and there's no puppy for us! Sandi has given us the options of waiting for one of her later litters, but we really wanted a puppy this year and her next litter may not be ready to go home until January 2011. Her brother has a litter on the ground ready to go home first week of October, but our deposit will not be transferred to that litter. Has anyone heard of Dancer Golden Retrievers? All I can find online is a Facebook page.
> 
> Alternatively, Stormynights' Penny is pregnant and should have puppies ready to go home end of November, which works best for us timing wise. But do we want to go through the uncertainty of not knowing if we'll get a puppy for sure???
> 
> My husband is heartbroken that things are turning out so difficult.


I'm so sorry to hear that Nelly only had the one pup . My friend was also in line for that litter and when they went to move their deposit to the Missy/Marley litter, Sandra had a little 8wk old puppy at her house from Golden Pride Kennel (wayyyyyyyyy up north) whose original buyers said they couldn't afford to take her home, and my friend fell in love with her instantly so they took her home with them that night! Her name is Macy and she's super adorable.

What do you think of the Jugs/Echo litter? I thought she was still taking deposits on that litter as of a few days ago and they should be born in a couple of weeks. 

Hopefully something works out for you soon, I know you've been waiting forever and keep having your plans fall through - just remember that it all happens for a reason!


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## jenniferc (Apr 23, 2010)

Hi Steph, the Jugs/Echo litter isn't due until early January, and we desperately wanted our puppy this fall so that doesn't work for us. We're going away mid-February and don't want to leave the puppy when it's too young. 

We checked out Dancer Goldens yesterday but decided that it wasn't for us.

As Stormynights has another litter on the ground at the end of September, we have decided to go back to our original choice of breeder and will unfortunately forfeit our deposit.

What an adventure! I really hope this litter works out for us. We're quite terrified of being let down again.


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## esSJay (Apr 13, 2009)

jenniferc said:


> Hi Steph, the Jugs/Echo litter isn't due until early January, and we desperately wanted our puppy this fall so that doesn't work for us. We're going away mid-February and don't want to leave the puppy when it's too young.
> 
> 
> 
> What an adventure! I really hope this litter works out for us. We're quite terrified of being let down again.


Ahh! I guess Jugs is coming into season later than expected, as Sandra originally mentioned that the litter was only going to be a few weeks behind Nelly's. Well that's mother nature for ya, unfortunately. 

I will definitely keep my fingers crossed for the Stormynights litter! :crossfing:crossfing:crossfing All this waiting will definitely be worthwhile in the end!


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## cbrett (Dec 26, 2009)

Oh NO JenniferC!!!! Sounds like you have had as big a patience challenge as we had. Nothing happened as planned for us either (including the move). We were orriginally getting a pup from a litter from Ashmar (who I also highly recommend; Margaret is FANTASTIC) with Ryder (stormynights) as the sire. When that litter didn't take, we took Ashmar's suggestion and went to Stormynights. Kim was also breeding Ryder so we were on board for the Ryder Fame litter (the same you were on the list for I beleive). As you know all too well, that litter did not take either.... My poor kids were given the news of a new puppy at Christmas, and in august of this year we were no further ahead..... If I can give you my two cents worth, i would say go for the Stormynights pup. After two failed attepts for us, we ended up deciding last minute to take a pup from her Chance and Crush litter end of Aug..it was not the timing we wanted, it wasn't the litter we had been planning for...and I was thrown for a loop that after all my planning NOTHING was happening as I'd planned. We didnt even get to visit the pups before bringing ours home, as we were away... I will say that things do happen for a reason. We have now had Charlie with us for a month, and he is the most wonderful dog EVER. Kim was thorough, helpful, and EVERYONE comments on Charlie's fantastic temperment, and on his looks. Go for the Stormynights pup!!!! I can't imagine now that we were considering not taking him. (and is it normal that you have to lose your deposit from In the Pink???)


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## jenniferc (Apr 23, 2010)

Hi cbrett, thanks for the words of encouragement. I do feel really good about going with Kim's next litter; I really liked her as a breeder and found her very knowledgeable.

Unfortunately, I knew going into the agreement with In the Pink that it was a non-refundable deposit; Sandi's argument being that her time is worth money, too. When her litter didn't take, she recommended Dancer Goldens which is run by her brother's family. I was not happy that even though it was her brother she was referring us to, she would not transfer our $300 deposit to him. So we figured, since we're going to lose $300 anyway, we might as well go with a breeder we know and like.

If we want another puppy within the next two years, our deposit with her is still good, but it's also non-transferrable so even if say my friend wants a golden from her, she won't let us use that money towards their puppy. I find the non-transferrable issue more annoying than the non-refundable part. I asked if she would extend it to make the deposit good for the next five years, but she said she didn't know what would happen in five years and didn't want to.

Let's just say I wish I hadn't had the instant knee-jerk reaction from losing the Fame/Ryder litter to going with In the Pink. At the time, Kim didn't know when her next litter would be, but if we had waited two more weeks she probably would have known her plans and we would be signed up for the Penny/Cash litter, anyway! Sigh, you live and learn. Hopefully with a puppy by our side!!!


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

jenniferc said:


> Unfortunately, I knew going into the agreement with In the Pink that it was a non-refundable deposit; Sandi's argument being that her time is worth money, too. When her litter didn't take, she recommended Dancer Goldens which is run by her brother's family. I was not happy that even though it was her brother she was referring us to, she would not transfer our $300 deposit to him. So we figured, since we're going to lose $300 anyway, we might as well go with a breeder we know and like.
> 
> If we want another puppy within the next two years, our deposit with her is still good, but it's also non-transferrable so even if say my friend wants a golden from her, she won't let us use that money towards their puppy. I find the non-transferrable issue more annoying than the non-refundable part. I asked if she would extend it to make the deposit good for the next five years, but she said she didn't know what would happen in five years and didn't want to.


so from what I am reading here, are you saying her litter didn't take?, she couldn't provide you with a puppy, but will not return your deposit? Not kewl in my books! if that is the case 

Good luck with your stormynights puppy!


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## esSJay (Apr 13, 2009)

arcane said:


> so from what I am reading here, are you saying her litter didn't take?, she couldn't provide you with a puppy, but will not return your deposit? Not kewl in my books! if that is the case
> 
> Good luck with your stormynights puppy!


 
The litter born was just a singleton. 

When we went up to meet Sandra before bringing home Molson, she went through everything in her contract with us and especially that regarding deposits being non-refundable, non-transferable, etc. prior to us placing a deposit with her.

In our case, the litter we originally placed our deposit on had only 6 puppies and we were #8 on the list so she gave us a number of other options to consider (we were told all of the options before placing our deposit as well), including waiting for her next litter about 5 months later, deferring our deposit for up to 2 years, or bringing home one of the puppies she had held back from the previous litter for evaluations. We took the latter option and ended up with Molson. 

A deposit is a deposit, and as long as everything was upfront right from the start, I don't see anything wrong with what happened. We can only blame Mother Nature for only producing 1 puppy.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

esSJay said:


> A deposit is a deposit, and as long as everything was upfront right from the start, I don't see anything wrong with what happened. We can only blame Mother Nature for only producing 1 puppy.


I guess everyone see's things differently! My opinion is, If *I* can't provide you with a puppy, your $ is returned.Different strokes for different folks...


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

arcane said:


> I guess everyone see's things differently! My opinion is, If *I* can't provide you with a puppy, your $ is returned.Different strokes for different folks...


Me too. That's why I don't even take deposits until the pregnancy is confirmed...


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## damita (Jun 4, 2009)

sterregold said:


> Me too. That's why I don't even take deposits until the pregnancy is confirmed...


I don't even take them until the pups are born and I limit my waiting list to 6-8 people.


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## starcrwn (Jan 23, 2008)

sterregold said:


> Me too. That's why I don't even take deposits until the pregnancy is confirmed...


That's what I normally do but it has bitten me big-time this litter. Puppy inquiries have plummeted and I now have unsold 8 week old puppies. Never had this happen before...

Karen
Star Crowned Goldens


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## jenniferc (Apr 23, 2010)

Steph is right--Sandra did say upfront that the deposit was non-refundable, I don't think we discussed whether or not it was transferrable at the time because we were having a knee-jerk reaction to Stormynights' litter not taking. If we had gone up to make the deposit, etc., I'm sure she would have gone over that with us.

We went with Stormynights as our first choice originally and a lot of it had to do with the fact that they do not take deposits until the puppies are actually born and she knows exactly how many puppies she has to sell (we liked both Sandi and Kim equally), which made us feel more comfortable about putting our reservation with her.

I am disappointed with how things turned out, but I don't think I have much of a leg to stand on because she did tell me it was non-refundable. Guess we just have to learn from our mistakes. This is one factor into why we refuse to purchase from Dancer Goldens, who she referred us to (the owner of which is related to her).


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## jenniferc (Apr 23, 2010)

I just got a call from my husband that Kim has confirmed that there are three male puppies on the ground (and I think four females), which means we get pick of the litter!!! We are beyond excited and will be able to report a new Stormynights pup growing up on the forum at the end of November!

cbrett, how is it going with Charlie? We need to plan the playdate with Timber, and Mad, too!


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

jenniferc,
I am so excited for you!!!
I've been away from the forum for a while so you can imagine my surprise to see you are getting a Stormynights pup!!!
I can't wait to see pics and yes, a play date is a definite!!!!
Cbrett, where are the pics?????


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## cbrett (Dec 26, 2009)

YAY!!! I'm so happy for you guys!!! And yes, once you have your little guy, we will have to arrange a play date 
Charlie is AMAZING. We are sooo happy that things all turned out the way they did, because we can't imagine having any puppy but him. He is calm, obedient, loving, smart, and super sweet. He is the shameless favourite in his puppy class, and there is no question that Stormynights produces fantastic puppies when it comes to temperment and looks. I know everyone loves a puppy, but I can't tell you how many times we have been stopped on the street by a stranger who wants to tell us Charlie is the most beautiful pup they've ever seen, or to ask us information on our breeder. Even our Vet comments on his wonderful temperment. JenC you will not be sorry!!! Oh, and did I mention Charlie is also HUGE!!!!!!!!!!! He is a little over 4 months and he is 40 lbs already!!!!!!

attached are pix of Charlie from 9 weeks till now. I hope it worked. Still trying to figure out how to put his age time line on here too. If anyone can tell me how, pls help


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## cbrett (Dec 26, 2009)

yay, it worked... i just ended up with the 9 week pic last rather than first.


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

cbrett, he beautiful!!!! I can smell the puppy breath from here 
He's from the Crush/Cash litter, right?
Oh he will definitely mature into a gorgeous boy! 
I can't get over how the last pic of him at 9 weeks looks like my boy's pic at that age 

I have been planning on adding a second golden to our family, and just the other day my hubby, just out of the blue, said that when we get the second, he definitely wants another Stormynight's pup. Those Stormynights babies definitely find a spot in our hearts!!!


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## jenniferc (Apr 23, 2010)

Aww cbrett, Charlie is adorable! My husband fell in love and can't wait until we get our puppy. It's so good to know that our puppy will be coming from such a reputable breeder. Will keep you posted!


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## Mad's Mom (Oct 28, 2008)

I have been away from the forum for a really long while. Very busy Summer and Fall, including busy keeping Mad and myself happy and well exercised!

So I looked up this thread right away, and am so happy how it is all turning out. 

Funny that the very handsome Timber and Mad, both Stormynights pups are different looking, but I would swear that last picture of Charlie is a "baby" picture of Mad. Love Chalrie's other pictures, he is adorable.

cbrett, get used to the compliments on your pups, and jenniferc be ready for them. I thought they were just because she was a pup and all pups are cute and sweet, but I have to say any where go we still get compliments on how beautiful she is and what a great temperment she has even now that she's officially a grown up at 32 months old. Of course to me she is just funny, sweet, loving Mad.

I so look forward to watching both these new pups grow up. Makes me want the new Stormynights pup that I know is in my future evern sooner.

A gathering of all would be great.

Cindy and Mad


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## cbrett (Dec 26, 2009)

WELL....... Do we have a puppy?????????????


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## colemp (Nov 9, 2010)

Phew, just read through this whole thread. Lots of useful info in here about this breeder. It's truly exhausting researching all about breeders, puppies, lines, etc. 

jenniferc, do you know if all the male puppies are spoken for with Kim's Cash/Penny litter? Our family is anxious to get a pup but are waiting to get one from a reputable breeder. Good luck with your stormynights puppy!


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## jenniferc (Apr 23, 2010)

cbrett, yes we have a puppy! We have a male puppy who is coming home Nov. 27th! I'll post pictures when he comes home.

colemp, I visited the puppies on Oct. 31st and at that time, Kim said only three of the seven puppies had been spoken for. I feel pretty confident about my choice of Kim as a breeder; I researched extensively and am happy that in the end I'll be getting a stormynights pup. I should footnote that none of the breeders I met with had everything on my checklist of things a breeder should have, but Kim came pretty close and I appreciate how quickly she responds to my questions and is preparing me to take home a puppy.


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

This is sooooo exciting!!!!
Can't wait for the pics


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## Maize's Mommy (Jul 4, 2011)

This thread is part of the reason we decided to go with a Stormynight's puppy! Our little sweetie will be coming home at the end of the month. She is from Crush's second litter. We can't wait!


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## cbrett (Dec 26, 2009)

You will NOT be disappointed! Charlie is such a perfect dog! Of course WE think he's prettys special, but we are also told by friends and even strangers all the time that he is an exceptional dog both in temperment and looks! I'm so happy you guys got a Crush pup! Congrats!!!!


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## turnkins (Jul 15, 2011)

*crush/denver?*



Maize's Mommy said:


> This thread is part of the reason we decided to go with a Stormynight's puppy! Our little sweetie will be coming home at the end of the month. She is from Crush's second litter. We can't wait!


Hi There! we are getting a Crush/Denver pup too


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## miya (Jan 27, 2013)

Hi everyone. Can anyone tell me if stormynights is a reputable breeder? I've read all the comments here and seems to be all good. For people who have purchased pups from there could you tell me what is process is? Do I need to bring anything with me such as identifications? And if your dogs purchased there in good health?


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Kim is conscientious and thorough. Have known her for 0ver 10 years now. No qualms about recommending her.

She will expect you to come up for a visit and an interview.

i know that Ambercroft, Shadymist, and Autumnmist also have puppies right now in Ontario. They are all GRCGT members, but as always, ask to see the parents' clearance paperwork. The sire of the Autumnmist litter, Bow, is a real sweetheart.


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## miya (Jan 27, 2013)

How much is a golden pup? At good reputable breeders do they charge more? How much was at stormynights? I'm still deciding where to go ...


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

In southern Ontario you can expect to pay $1200-$1500 on average, and almost all between $1000 and $2000. If a breeder is looking for more than $2000, I would look elsewhere. What other breeders are you considering? If you are undecided have you looked at Goldnote near Barrie?

Good luck in your puppy search.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Bruce at Goldnote is wonderful too. He breeds the English style though, so if she is interested in Kim's dogs, the others that I listed will be more similar in style. 

The $1000-1500 range is what is common in southern Ontario right now, and where the price falls in that range will depend on the titles and accomplishments of the parents. A litter with a Ch dad and a dam with maybe obed or rally titles only is going to likely be closer to the $1000, and a highly titled litter more on the $1500 range. (ie the performance litter I am having where both parents are MH is $1500--my litter last year where dad was Ch/SH/WCX/CDX was $1200).


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## miya (Jan 27, 2013)

Thank you Millie's Mom and Sterregold for your sugestions. I like the looks of Kim's dog at Stormynights. The puffy and happy smiley eyes look adorable. Color is not a huge concern for me as long as the breeder has all the paper work and clearances to show. I have looked into Conquerer, Skylon, and some more breeders in Mississauga but some of them don't mention about clearances so I'm a bit concern. I will definitely look into Goldnote. By the way, have any of you bought pet insurance for your dogs? I am considering but thought you guys could give me more advice on that.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Rob at Conquerer definitely does all his clearances!! He is thorough about that like I am!! We both do not just the big four (hips, elbows, heart, and annual eye) but also the DNA tests. Some breeders do not have clearance information for all of their dogs posted on their websites as they are not all that computer savvy and just having a website up at all is a big deal! Carol at Ambercroft is this way--she had someone design her site for her, but it is really more of an overview of her place, and if you go to see her she will show you everything. The other place to cross-reference is on the OFA site www.offa.org where you can check the clearances if you know the dog's registered name or reg number.

Pet insurance can be a really good thing to have. I have it only on my oldest dog, as I had her on it as a puppy before she was found to have a health condition. If I had cancelled it she would have been uninsurable. But the rest of mine are not--just too many to make it affordable. I have $50 off each paycheck deposited into a savings account instead that I use as my dog health fund. If costs me what top level insurance on one would a month, but i can use it for any of them in an emergency. So if you can be disciplined about not touching that kind of account for other things that can be a good option as well.


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

You may want to do a forum search on Skylon, and possibly google them to. Just curious about the breeders in Mississauga. Conquerer has beautiful dogs and a very informative website. I don't know anything about Stormynights.


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## miya (Jan 27, 2013)

Thanks for your advice Millie'sMom i did a google search and saw many bad reviews about Skylon. I think its a big red flag there. Still on my journey on find the right place. Thanks Sterregold and Millie'sMom for advising me. May I know where you got your dog from?


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

My 2 girls are from a breeder that I would no longer recommend. She does not do proper health clearances, rarely shows her dogs and her business ethics are questionable. If you would still like to know, I will send you a PM. Doesn't mean I don't love them. The stud dog for one dog is from Animation Acres and I would recommend Vicki as well. I tried to go on Animation Acres website the other day and it was down. Maybe Sterregold knows more about her?


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Vicki at Animation is reputable. She does her clearances, and shows her dogs, as well as competes in agility with them. We are both members of the GRCGT, and I have known her for quite a few years now! She was not breeding much recently as she has had a health scare and had to focus on treatment, and I know I got a new email address for her just recently, so she may be in the process of moving her website as well.

My oldest two are from Amberwood (Nancy Fieder) but she is not currently breeding any more. Their lines go back to Kyon dogs. Breeze comes from Trowsnest in New Hampshire. Butch and Bonnie are her kids, and Wings is her granddaughter. I have pretty specific goals for what I want in terms of working ability and conformation, so I have my own program under way.


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## miya (Jan 27, 2013)

I looked into Animation acres too but their site seems to be on the fix. I'm really hoping to get a pup for spring or summer of this year since I have waited 2 years already to prepare myself. Really don't want to wait soo long again. I have filled out some questionnaire's from other breeders and noticed that some require references. Do you know what kind of references are they asking for? I have never had a dog before so I don't have any references from vets.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Provide someone who can speak to your character and commitment and lifestyle stability. An employer, or coach could be good options, or supervisor from a volunteer organization, or maybe a friend whose dog you have look after. Just specify the nature of the relationship so that breeders know what aspect of your life/personality they can get feedback on from the person.


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## miya (Jan 27, 2013)

Hi everyone. I just found another breeder called Bowbell goldens. Has anyone heard from there before? They have a litter with Logan which is so handsome. They seem to have a great puppy package too. What do you all think?


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

That is Carole Konecy. I do not know her well personally, but have seen her and her dogs at shows. Nice temperaments, and she does bring her dogs in to the clinics for clearances. I have not heard anything untoward about her.


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

If you were really interested in an Animation Acres puppy, I think it would be easier to phone Vicki, as she did post something on her FB page that she was changing over her internet. I thought she had a litter ready to go home in Feb, I could be wrong or they may all be spoken for. 

I sent you a PM


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## miya (Jan 27, 2013)

I just noticed that the litter at Bowbell is not their dogs. Logan belongs to ambertru and dance is from dove cottage.


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## miya (Jan 27, 2013)

Hey millie'smom . Thanks. I got your pm! Hope I can pm soon too. Your pm was very helpful. I live in Toronto, but oakville is not too far from me. I am looking for breeders around 1-2 hour driving distance. I did look into animation acres earlier but their site is still not up and running yet. I really like stormynights dogs. Their looks are the type of goldens I'm looking for but the last female pup there has already had an inquiry about her. No luck for me.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Logan belongs to COnnie up at Ambertru. It is quite normal for a breeder to go to an outside stud dog to get what they want for their girl. I just bred to a boy who lives in Montana!!

Dance is owned by Shauna from Dovecottge, but her sire is one of Carole's (Bowbell) dogs. So it may be that part of the stud agreement was that Carole got to lease the pick girl back for a litter. They work together a fair bit, so it would not surprise me. It is not unusual for breeders with linked programs to do this.

As I mentioned before Carol Lee at Ambercroft and Wendy Pilger at Autumnmist both have puppies right now. Carol is north of Brampton, and Wendy at Gravenhurst, so both are within your 2 hour range.


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## gold_n_lovr (Feb 4, 2008)

Hi All...

Shelly thanks for the kind words about our dogs ! You are right we did lease Dance from Dovecottage. Sharon unfortunately is incredibly busy looking after her parents and didn't want Dance, to be unbred this season so offered her to us, being that she goes back to our Lainey and DJ we jumped at the chance. Dance is a fantasitc girl and goes back 3 generations, of excellent hips which we are very proud of ! She has been here with us for 2 mths now. We picked Logan for her because we feel he compliments her beautifully. We are so excited about this litter ! 

I'm afraid I may not want to return her to Sharon (Dovecottage) as she's become such a close knit part of our family already ! 

Again thank you for the kind words 

Carole
Bowbell Goldens


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## jenniferc (Apr 23, 2010)

*Stormynights*

Hi Miya,

Our golden is from Stormynights and we have nothing but praise for Kim! We went through five our six breeders during our selection process and liked Kim the best. Our puppy was about $1000 and he has not had any hip or elbow problems. He is very gentle with children and very loving.

Unfortunately, he does have some health problems: he has allergies to most meats and so he is on a special diet of hydrolyzed soy. We went through at least six or seven different food brands and types of meat before we resorted to the soy but since then, he has been healthy as a horse. (Aside from the odd ear infection or eye infection. Top tip: do not let your puppy play in a fountain). Kim was very supportive as we tried to find what was wrong with our dog and we tried many natural supplements and vitamins. Our vet says his allergies are a fluke and not related to the breeder--he's just "special." Kim kept a puppy from the same litter and apparently she has a cast iron stomach and no problems at all.

Hope this helps and happy hunting!


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