# One of my friends got this Comfort Retriever



## gunjee

I had never heard of such a thing, but her little male puppy looks just like my Gracie and certainly acts like she did when she was younger. He will be 25 pounds fully grown! I went looking online for the term Comfort Retriever and found the website of the place she got her puppy:

Our Dogs

He is 3 months old and can sit on command and will wait for a treat. She hasn't had him professionally trained yet. She's one of those rich people who goes on vacation to exotic locations and is planning on having him trained the 3 weeks she will be gone at a kennel where they will train him. Right now he is confined to her kitchen because he is not house trained yet. I find it all very fascinating. 

I got Gracie from rescue when she was 11 months old and she certainly looks like a golden and acts like a golden so I think she is purebred. But this puppy looked like a golden too and it's part poodle supposedly. No cocker spaniel because according to the website, cocker spaniels are biters. I didn't know that. It was fun playing with the puppy, but I felt really appreciative of my sweet Gracie when I got home, even if she is 50 pounds and could put her front paws on my shoulders if she were allowed to jump up (which she isn't). She didn't try to eat my hair and my feet and my arm, and she had the same cute look on her face as this puppy. I lucked out! I got a dog who was fully house trained when I adopted her. My friend had to clean her kitchen floor 5 times at least while I had been there the 2 hours or so playing with her puppy and trying to get him to not bite me or my kids.


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## Blondie

Thank you for rescuing Gracie. It's so sad that there are people trying to create designer dogs and charging hefty fees for doing so and getting away with it. This is sickening.


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## Yarra girl

whoa - I couldn't read to the end of it, that is just obscene to me, and the fact they are trading on the good reputation of the GR.
YUK


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## Molly's Mum

I'm confused by their website. They list one of the advantages of this dog breed is their longevity. They also say "We produced our first Comfort Retriever ® in 2003" so that would make the oldest dog 8 years old. Also stated on their website is "In 2007 we finally produced our first new and improved Comfort Retriever®" making the oldest "improved" dog 4 years old. How do they know longevity is an advantage, surely 8 years (or 4 years for the latter) is still too early to tell?


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## LibertyME

PT Barnum said, "There is a sucker born every minute.." 
$1500.00 for a mutt....


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## Phillyfisher

Wow, so much BS on one site. I wonder when they will offer their English Creme Comfort retriever. Ugh.... Thank you for rescuing Gracie, and not drinking your friends kool-aid.


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## vixen

what a terrible web site. "tademarked for you protection":yuck:

:doh::yuck::yuck: what else can be said


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## Megora

So....

Is the overweight and slightly strange looking golden on the left the golden they are using to create these mixed breeds? :uhoh:


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## Pointgold

Golden Retrievers crossed with Cocker Spaniels produced the first "comfort retrievers". As with all deliberately manufactured mutts, you can be assured that neither of the parents wer quality dogs, and had few, if any, ancestors in their pedigrees with health clearances appropriate for their breed. And contrary to what the marketing of these mutts would have you believe, "hybrid vigor" is not applicable. 
It is nothing more than a money making scam.


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## ragtym

Phillyfisher said:


> Wow, so much BS on one site. I wonder when they will offer their English Creme Comfort retriever. Ugh.... Thank you for rescuing Gracie, and not drinking your friends kool-aid.


Probably coming soon since this: DoodleQuest and this: GoldenQuest are the same person that "created" these comfort retrievers.

Sad that she has a Crosby daughter that she started breeding when she was less than a year old... Pedigree: Goldenquest Pawsitiv Ivy League


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## CarolinaCasey

My brain hurts after reading that website. Bunch of idiots.


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## GoldenSail

Yuck. How can she be sure that dog will not grow beyond 25 lbs? There is no guarantee when you go crossing dogs like that.


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## gunjee

*That's what I was thinking...*

He certainly doesn't *look* any smaller than a 3 month old golden puppy and even if both his parents are this small mixture, all 4 of *their* parents were not. But he's cute, and I hope the best for my friend. I know she is in love with her puppy and even if he does get to be 45 or 55 or 65 pounds, I'm sure she'd still love him. I just feel bad she had spent so much money for him when there are so many dogs out there waiting to find forever homes. But I have to admit, it would be great if Gracie were smaller and couldn't pull me down the street. But we're working on that.


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## LDGrillo

You'd think the website would have more photos of the _Adult _Comfort Retrievers. All I see are puppies. That first pic of the so-called adult really does look like a puppy still. I'm curious as to what a *matured* comfort dog looks like. Hard to believe with NO PICS!


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## Megora

> I just feel bad she had spent so much money for him when there are so many dogs out there waiting to find forever homes.


I'm all for buying purebred goldens if you truly love a breed. So I don't think anyone needs to feel guilty about spending $$$ on a purebred golden retriever - especially if they also donate to rescue groups or even adopt. 

But these dogs are mixed breeds. And going by the pictures of those puppies on the website, it appears that the dogs produced inherit a variety of traits based on the luck of the draw. I would imagine the same is true of temperament, as most miniature poodles that we've met tend to be hyperactive and somewhat spastic.  



> But I have to admit, it would be great if Gracie were smaller and couldn't pull me down the street.


Actually, small dogs can pull their own weight plus... <- I've been watching my neighbor working with his new beagle, trying to get the dog to walk on leash. That dog does a pretty good sled dog imitation.


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## DaisyGolden

That is just too sick. I can't wait for the day when someone comes up with a new kind of pet the amazing Dat. The Dat is everything you love about a dog and cat just blended together. The Dat can use a litter box, fetch, take you jogging and climb a tree. If you are wanting the ultimate protection animal the Dat is for you since it can bark, hiss and scratch. Also you can buy a breeding pair of Dats and have your very own litter of Dattens which you can sell for $5000.00 each. Dats live to be around 25 years old since you take the longevity of a cat and a dog and add them together. We should know we have been breeding them for three years. Send us your $5000.00 and we can ship your Dat today.


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## mylissyk

Megora said:


> So....
> 
> Is the overweight and slightly strange looking golden on the left the golden they are using to create these mixed breeds? :uhoh:


No, the little dog on the right is their STUD. He is an adult, 2 yrs old in that picture.

This "breeder" breeds, comfort retrievers, goldendoodles, cavalier/poodle mix, and only gives a health guarante if you buy their dog food, and Nuvet from them.

But wait! "You can register your mutt in the Designer Dog Breed registry!"


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## mylissyk

Phillyfisher said:


> Wow, so much BS on one site. I wonder when they will offer their English Creme Comfort retriever. Ugh.... Thank you for rescuing Gracie, and not drinking your friends kool-aid.


 
They already do!
=================================
Litter

*We are pleased to announce the breeding of Frosty (British Cream Golden Retriever, 51 lbs) to Genesis (Comfort Retriever, 22 lbs). Mom, dad and pups can be viewed here.The puppies are estimated to be 36 lbs as adults, with males being up to 5-10 lbs more. The pups are due 5/26/11 and will got to homes around 7/31/11. We are accepting deposits Updated 4/23/11​*



*We are pleased to announce the breeding of Angel (British Cream Golden Retriever, 51 lbs) to Genesis (Comfort Retriever, 22 lbs). Mom, dad and pups can be viewed here.The puppies are estimated to be 36 lbs as adults, with males being up to 5-10 lbs more. The pups are due 6/12/11 and will got to homes around 8/7/11. We are accepting deposits Updated 4/23/11​*


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## tippykayak

This breeder seems to be the absolute definition of willy-nilly careless breeding of mixes. 

"Hey! If I mix two breeds, I'll end up with a dog in the exact middle of those two sizes, and that dog will have all the best qualities of both breeds and none of the problems! I'm sure there won't be any outbreeding depression!"

This kind of carelessness with the lives and health of dogs really bums me out.


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## Paige&Lily

That website is beyond ridiculous. I love their superior attitude about other breeder's doing the exact same thing they are doing-because they claim they thought of it first. And who trademarks a name of a breed? Did they notice that no AKC breeds are "trademarked"? And these golden/poodle crosses are not the same as crosses called "goldendoodle" why exactly? I can't believe anyone is a big enough sucker to fall for this-spend 10 minutes doing research before you spend $1500 on a living creature people!


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## BucNGator11

Wow, that Miley dog is uggggggglyyyyyyy! Poor thing..


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## uat1

Feel sorry for the comfort retriever dog in the picture....


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## WendyS

I personally like the youtube post with the girls getting their new puppy. That's their marketing tool? I don't know many kids that wouldnt react like that about getting any puppy! LMAO


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams

All I have to say is WOW!


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## maus

Pfft, Comfort Retrievers... I need to paraphrase Sir Mix-A-Lot "I like big MUTTS, I cannot lie" 

Really I like large dogs, I don't want to have to bend down to far to be able to pet my dog. Not to mention I don't trip over them near as much as a smaller dog.


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## jackie_hubert

Disgusting, disgusting, disgusting.

How can people like us who care about dogs and try to educate others possibly make a dent in this industry when people are falling for ridiculous things like this.


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## coppers-mom

I decided I should erase my rant.:doh:


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## Pointgold

mylissyk said:


> No, the little dog on the right is their STUD. He is an adult, 2 yrs old in that picture.
> 
> This "breeder" breeds, comfort retrievers, goldendoodles, cavalier/poodle mix, and only gives a health guarante if you buy their dog food, and Nuvet from them.
> 
> But wait! "You can register your mutt in the Designer Dog Breed registry!"


Ahh, bingo. Love the "if you don't use Nutro so I get a kickback from the pyramid scheme your health warranty is null and void" warranty. :doh:


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## Megora

Laura.... are you picking on Nutro again? :new (3):


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## Pointgold

Megora said:


> Laura.... are you picking on Nutro again? :new (3):


Whatever gives you _that _idea???
​


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## Megora

Pointgold said:


> Ahh, bingo. Love the "if you don't use *Nutro* so I get a kickback from the pyramid scheme your health warranty is null and void" warranty. :doh:


*coughs* Unless Nutro makes nuvet too....


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## Retrieverlover

So maybe if you feed them something else they will actually grow? 

I like comfort golden - between 21.5 and 24" and dog tired on the couch from a good walk


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## Pointgold

Megora said:


> *coughs* Unless Nutro makes nuvet too....


 
HAHAHAHAHA! 
Well, _there_ was a Freudian slip!!! LOL!!!
Yup. I meant NuVet.


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## DNL2448

Geez, my pups went home with ALL of that PLUS a stellar pedigree, proven health clearances and PROVEN longevity, but most of all a PUREBRED GOLDEN RETRIEVER.....and I wasn't asking near that much!


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## ChiPack

Ughh...I find this shocking and sad.


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## jagmanbrg

When I contacted my local retriever club, I asked about this breeder, since she was somewhat local. The club rep said that she had really nice golden's, but when she started the whole goldendoodle and miniature golden deal she shifted her focus.

When I talked to her on the phone she seemed very knowledgeable about the breed, which I actually believe she is, all the golden's I saw still have there clearances etc. I was just put off by her website. I personally wouldn't have a problem with someone creating a "new" breed if it was for a purpose and was done in a scientific manner. The way she is doing it seems like she is just doing it for the money, her guarantees are laughable.

Anywho, just m 2 cents.


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## Blondie

I must be an idiot. I see nothing comfortable about this. My comfort golden is a 17 month old 54(almost)pound, 20.5", purebred golden retriever female, with a pedigree. Maybe not quite show dog qualifying, but that's okay. Nothing else added, nothing subtracted. I have all that I need.


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## CarolinaCasey

If it hadn't been for this thread, I wouldn't have known what a comfort golden was....

because someone asked me if Gibbs was one the other day at the pet store. I wanted to die laughing--- in her face.  But instead, told her that there was no such thing-- it's either a golden or a golden mix!


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## amy22

I cannot believe that the puppy on the right is a full grown dog...no way!!!


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## SunGold

That website makes me sick...


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## Baloo

*Comfort Retriever Not Such a Bad Thing*

My wife and I lost our female yellow labrador retriever (our first child and best friend rolled into one happy, furry body) a few months ago. We adopted her when she was two, and she proved to be the best dog in our extended network of dog friends. We consider ourselves blessed to have had Roxanne in our life for the past 10 years. 

We realize that our lives sort of demand the presence of a Roxanne. But the truth is, that we desire a retriever breed dog that is in the 40-50 pound range. That is because we often hike and, invariably, a dog will get injured at some point in its life. I can honestly state that trotting four miles with an 80+ pound dog with seriously-injured pads in a fireman's carry across your shoulders is a horrible experience for the human and its dog passenger. It certainly lets you know really quickly how out of shape you are.

So, our requirement for a dog is that it be a retriever breed, yellow(ish) and 50 lbs. Taking a look around, there is no such dog that "conforms" to those requirements. Then we came across the comfort retriever people. We only started looking at breeders when we realized that we weren't likely to find a dog through any of the lab, golden or doodle rescues because the Las Vegas area has a very limited supply, and the California and Arizona rescues were unwilling to adopt out to a family that lived 5+ hours away. It really is something to discover how hard it is to rescue a dog. Honestly ridiculous.

So, we were darn near literally driven to a breeder. And for a dog that fit our outdoor activities weight limit, the comfort retriever folks seemed to be the ticket. I spent some time seeking out their puppy boot-camp youtube videos, and they appeared to be fairly appropriate with the pups.

So, before one rushes to cast dispersions on them, I figure its worth considering that they're offering a pet that has the prospect of working much better for some folks. After all, one upon a time, there was one breed of schnauzer. Now there are at least 3 versions; mini, standard and giant. Clearly, each of those distinct "breeds" began via crosses between some original schnauzer stock which was mixed with other stock. Heck the GR itself began as a mix of other stock. I wonder if the Tweed Water Spaniel breeders were as chagrinned by the crossing of their Tweed as the commenters are in this thread regarding the Comfort. 

It is ridiculous for them to trademark comfort retriever? No. That is their brand, and they are smart to guard it from dilution via use by unscrupulous backyard breeders making random crosses of random dogs unchecked for health or temperament issues. 

If I could source a 3-year old or younger female golden on the yellowish end of the spectrum (as opposed to red) that weighed in the neighborhood of 40-50 lbs from a rescue, and she wasn't neurotic beyond belief and showed no dog-on-dog or food aggression, I'd take her in a second. But that road has not been fruitful. That said, I'm likely going to reserve a comfort. 

If someone here wants to offer a realistic and workable solution quickly, I'm all ears.


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## LJack

Please do not take the side of a person who is purposely distorting the breed to make a "designer" dog that offers no benefit to the breed. You wanted a dog that does not exist because of color. Their are retrieving breeds that do meet your weight and activity needs but not color. 
You may not find the comfort dog offensive, but I do. Goldens are goldens and have the great traits they have by design. They are the size they are because it is needed for the game they are bred to retrieve. Also, dogs that are within the standard are between 55-75 pounds and that is the full range male and female. This person is trading on that reputation while grossly distorting it. 
I don't like seeing any designer minis whether they are pit bulls, bulldogs, labs, German shepherds, labs, or goldens. 
On the end of new breeds, yes every breed started somewhere. Most of them started in times when dogs of certain skill were needed. These folks knew what traits dogs had and worked towards an end goal, such as a dog perfect for retrieving upland game. 
Should we create hundreds of new breeds just because a preference for color, weight, size, head shape, ear shape, etc?
Also, run from anyone who uses hypoallergenic to sell pets. Cat, dog, horse...whatever it is not true.


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## kjohnstone82

gunjee said:


> No cocker spaniel because according to the website, cocker spaniels are biters. I didn't know that.


My Poppy is a cocker spaniel and in no way a biter, she is my princess and would never hurt anyone unless defending me. Cocker spaniel's are lovely breeds with a great temprament, they need to check their facts!  No one picks on my Poppy


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## Jamm

trolololol.


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## Millie'sMom

My golden girl is medium gold, 45 lbs and full grown (2 1/2 yrs). Certainly not breed standard, but CKC registered golden retriever from parents with clearances. Her sister is the same size. 

There are others on the forum, i believe, who also have golden girls that are on the smaller side. It may not what we planned, but there a goldens around that size.

What is the difference between a "comfort" golden and a goldendoodle? I am sure there are plenty of doodles out there that need homes. Please do not pay big $$$ for a mutt, it only encourages breeders like that to continue.


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## Baloo

*Just Petite Goldens & No Comfort Retrievers*

Okay, so let's operate from a premise that making a designer mutt is bad. So Comfort Retrievers, Labradoodles, Goldendoodles, Whoodles and everything else that you can mix with a poodle are no-nos.

Then, why not just comb the country for the best petite golden retrievers, test them for OFA everything, PennHIP, vWD, CERF, PRA, etc., and confirm their obedience certification, etc., and take these exceptional examples of the Golden Retriever, albeit generally smaller than accepted for "conformation" purposes, and purposely breed a smaller line?

I know, there are breed standards and reasons that a Golden Retriever is bred to be such and such size/weight. The truth is, they were bred that size, in part to carry certain size game or fowl. And, as I understand it, the ideal weight for a retriever based upon their angulation is 65 lbs. Yet most Golden Retrievers you see are far larger. Perhaps its that Americans take their dogs like they take their SUVs. 

And while the Golden was made to take on such and such fowl, how many Goldens (on a percentage basis) do you think are busting ice in January and hauling a greater Canadian goose back to shore. I'd wager it is a very small minority. So, why continue to breed 75, 85, 90 pounders? Why not package the same great traits (temperament, biddability/trainability, etc.) into a package in the 45- to 50-lb pound neighborhood.

A dog in this package frankly, once adopted as mainstream, would likely appeal to a greater number of families (or at least better serve a greater number if they properly assessed their real motivations for a dog, i.e. companion), and would have the wonderful added bonus of being the green choice (less resources wasted).

So, is the channelizing of a pure-bred petite line of Goldens based on excellent vetted and certified stock an aberration as well?


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## Baloo

*Petite Golden Retriever*

By the way, there is absolutely no requirement that a dog be a large dog to haul even a 14 pound Canadian across a large farm lake. I've seen a small munsterlander busting ice to bring such-sized Canadians to shore time and again, tail wagging and energy never flagging over the course of a hard day of hunting. By the way, I hated goose hunting, every frigid second...except for handling the dogs.

My point is that Golden's needn't be as big as they've become to handle ducks and geese. And outside of that argument for the largeness of the breed, what else is there (other than its easier to pet their precious heads)?


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## LJack

Sure, let's just throw the whole standard out. What?!:doh:

Yes, their are larger and smaller goldens out there. From what I understand, there is some draw from some agility folks who like smaller size to get out of competing directly against certain other breeds.
Here is where the point gets missed.... A reputable breeder is not breeding for anyone but themselves. Pet puppies are a by product of their quest for their next competition dog. So, to ask some one to do everything right and end up with a dog that can not compete due to a breed *disqualifying* trait is not reasonable. This is one of only two disqualifications in our breed, that is how important size is to our breed. You might occasionally find dogs to the smaller end of standard which is 55-65 pound girls and 65-75 pound boys maybe in some of those agility lines. 
If you start to change things like size, who knows what else will go. A lot of traits are genetically linked together. So, if you don't want a golden because of it's size, color, head shape, length of coat, etc., you just don't want a golden. You really want something else, whatever that is.
Please don't support breeders who don't support the breed as defined by our standard. The standard is there to protect those qualities that make a golden a golden. When you start pick and choose which part of the standard you like or are the fad at the moment, it just is not a golden anymore. 
If you are concerned about size, I would suggest to continue to try older rescues or breeders who are placing older dogs. Since the size you want is a disqualification, you might luck out and find a breeder who is placing a show prospect due to being undersized.
Again, based on what I see about these comfort dogs, they are selling doodles under a fancy name as hypoallergenic, major red flags.


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## LJack

Just wanted to add. The golden is a very popular breed an as such we do not need to work to gain main stream acceptance. As with most popular breeds or boom breeds (think Taco Bell chihuahuas and Beethoven saints) we actually suffer from this popularity as it draws the pet stores, brokers, puppy mills, disreputable BYB's and of course "designer" versions of the breed.


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## Sweet Girl

Baloo said:


> So, our requirement for a dog is that it be a retriever breed, yellow(ish) and 50 lbs. Taking a look around, there is no such dog that "conforms" to those requirements.


That right there. Know what that is? Your sense of entitlement. I want, I want right now, I want the way I want it. Make me a dog just for me. The health and betterment of the breed be ******. This is about me, me, me.

A Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever would have met all your requirements - but - horror of all horrors - it would not have been yellow. A small female Golden Retriever would be 55 pounds, a whole 5 pounds over your limit. When 2 year olds don't get what they want, they cry and whine, and throw things, and demand they get their way. But parents usually teach their kids you don't always get what you want in life.


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## tippykayak

I'm always happy when people have a dog that makes them happy.

However, what you're advocating ignores the most important reasons that people are against the breeding of undersized Goldens: health.

If somebody wanted to start a new breed (call it the 18" Golden?), that's one thing. There are some potential problems there, but nobody's actually doing it, so I don't see the point in the hypothetical. The issue is what the "comfort" lady is actually doing.

What she's doing is heavily selecting a limited breeding stock for the smaller dogs, and she's not starting with truly excellent dogs to begin with. Health is hard enough to nail down when you start with excellent dogs, so starting with unproven dogs, outcrossing (including bringing other breeds), and selecting heavily for undersized dogs is pretty much a recipe for health and temperament issues. Let's not rationalize on that because it's the dogs who pay the price when humans base their decisions on profits. Let's also not rationalize that because you got lucky it vindicates all the other bad choices the "comfort" lady has made.

So when somebody's really doing everything right and trying to create a new breed, we can talk about the issues. But that's not what's happening here.

And the basic fact is that if you want a 50 pound companion dog, you have an enormous number of options. Trim female Goldens can be 55 pounds even _within_ standard, and there are plenty of times that a litter bred to standard includes a few dogs who are slightly small. So you can really have a 50-55 pound Golden if you want without going to a high risk breeder. And, obviously, you can go to much less risky breedings of other breeds if you want.

The fact is that the breeds we have are already really carefully designed, and purebreeding to a standard allows an excellent breeder to stack the deck in the dog's favor when it comes to health, ability, and temperament. You don't gamble all of that that so you can have a particular color in a dog that's 10% lighter.


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## Tayla's Mom

I am so against "designer" breeds. What you have is a mutt. I'm not disparaging mutts. I've had a Golden mix and an Aussie mix. They are great dogs and what's more important is that they are plentiful. Just check out any shelter. There is no need to deliberately breed designer dogs, you are deluting two fine breeds.


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## tippykayak

Tayla's Mom said:


> I am so against "designer" breeds. What you have is a mutt. I'm not disparaging mutts. I've had a Golden mix and an Aussie mix. They are great dogs and what's more important is that they are plentiful. Just check out any shelter. There is no need to deliberately breed designer dogs, you are deluting two fine breeds.


I'm definitely against the term. Purebred dogs are the "designed" dogs, and they breed true. Breed cross dogs are the opposite. The resulting dogs are, by the way genes work, much more variable in how they come out, and therefore far less "designed."

Mutt always sounds like a pejorative term to me, but like you, I love all dogs, including mutts. My issue is that the promise of a "designer" dog and the reality are so far apart. And when you gamble on health, it's the dog that pays the losses.


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## Tayla's Mom

My favorite term is All American, but I consider those to be the dogs you find in shelters, a little of this and a little of that. Not the current "popular trend" dogs. My boss just told me yesterday that they are getting a "medium" goldendoodle. They are going to a breeder and will be paying around $2,000. It just saddens me on many levels.


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## tippykayak

Tayla's Mom said:


> My favorite term is All American, but I consider those to be the dogs you find in shelters, a little of this and a little of that. Not the current "popular trend" dogs. My boss just told me yesterday that they are getting a "medium" goldendoodle. They are going to a breeder and will be paying around $2,000. It just saddens me on many levels.


It bugs me too. People pay so much more and end up with a far riskier dog when it comes to health and stable temperament.


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## Baloo

Thank you for your reasoned responses, TippyKayak. I appreciate where you're coming from. 

As to the last line of my original post, I would still truly appreciate if someone on this board, among its vast resources, could direct me to several breeders who traditionally breed on the small end of the spectrum of acceptable conformation.


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## MikaTallulah

An all American Comfort Golden in NV Petfinder Adoptable Dog | Labrador Retriever | Sparks, NV | Sam

Medium sized male lab Petfinder Adoptable Dog | Labrador Retriever | Las Vegas, NV | Dusty

This one is only 38 pounds and they say would be great for outdoorsy people based on their description of her http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/24390558


Inside of buying in the hype of a Comfort Golden just look for an adult rescue that meets your size requirements. Just because the Comfort breeder says they will be up to 55 pounds does not mean they will be. They could very easily weight more. 

My RIP Lucky was 120- a Very Big Boy but both of his parents were within standard. He was my own Clifford the big red dog.

A mutt is a mutt is a mutt! Loveable yes but what dog isn't. I would never pay $2,000-$2,500 for a mutt!


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## sherlySeptiani

DaisyGolden said:


> That is just too sick. I can't wait for the day when someone comes up with a new kind of pet the amazing Dat. The Dat is everything you love about a dog and cat just blended together. The Dat can use a litter box, fetch, take you jogging and climb a tree. If you are wanting the ultimate protection animal the Dat is for you since it can bark, hiss and scratch. Also you can buy a breeding pair of Dats and have your very own litter of Dattens which you can sell for $5000.00 each. Dats live to be around 25 years old since you take the longevity of a cat and a dog and add them together. We should know we have been breeding them for three years. Send us your $5000.00 and we can ship your Dat today.


LOL... but there are quite many breeders doing this right?
Like this one.. Home

This is quite creepy to me :new (15):


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## goldentemperment

"Trademarked for your protection"...*sigh*


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## Jamm

Someone asked me if Joey was a 'comfort' retriever because he is 65lbs and within the male standard............


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## GoldenCamper

If people want a Golden, get a Golden. If they want a smaller breed get a smaller breed. I have zero patience when reading threads like this when people breed designer dogs for big bucks. Morals seem to have gone out the window for sake of the almighty dollar. 

Insane amount of them. 

List of Hybrid Dogs, Designer Dog, Hybrid Dog, Designer Dogs

Shelters are full of dogs, please adopt one.


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## vcm5

GoldenCamper said:


> If people want a Golden, get a Golden. If they want a smaller breed get a smaller breed. I have zero patience when reading threads like this when people breed designer dogs for big bucks. Morals seem to have gone out the window for sake of the almighty dollar.
> 
> Insane amount of them.
> 
> List of Hybrid Dogs, Designer Dog, Hybrid Dog, Designer Dogs
> 
> Shelters are full of dogs, please adopt one.


Agreed! Why on earth would you pay this much for a mutt? It is insane!


----------



## Shalva

Baloo said:


> Thank you for your reasoned responses, TippyKayak. I appreciate where you're coming from.
> 
> As to the last line of my original post, I would still truly appreciate if someone on this board, among its vast resources, could direct me to several breeders who traditionally breed on the small end of the spectrum of acceptable conformation.


responsible breeders are going to breed in the standard. However, that having been said you can call and ask breeders what their plans are and what they expect. I know for example that in my last litter my puppies were very moderate and the girls were on the small side. I am breeding one of those girls and I am breeding her to a boy that I like who is also in the standard but on the smaller side... he tends to throw bigger than he is. The reality is that I do expect that I will have some of the girls who are on the lower end of the standard. 

Connie is just 21.5 so on the low end of the standard.. and Gus is just 23 ... if someone came to me looking for a pup on the lower end I could pick the one that i think would be smaller but it is hard to tell... could I make an educated guess sure... but that is all it would be .. sometimes the smallest puppies end up being the largest adults. 

These are living creatures... we can't put an order in and we can't always tell what adult size would be... We can guess but I couldn't make any guarantees. 

There are many nice dogs that are similar to goldens but are smaller. I personally would take a look at spaniels... English Cockers are delightful little dogs, field spaniels, boykin spaniels.... these are dogs on the smaller side with great temperaments... you don't need to find a mix just expand your horizons and remember that it is not all about size... a well trained dog of any size will be a lovely dog to live with. Just because a dog is small does not mean that will be an easier dog to live with and deal with or take up less space. My Irish Wolfhound for example is probably the easiest dog to live with she is the calmest and has had great training and socialization... she is also the largest but honestly takes up the least space because she is so calm you just have to know where she is so you can walk over her.


----------



## DanaRuns

So, this sweet, bizarre little AKC registered Golden Retriever with the mud on her face in my signature photos weighs just 45 lbs. they do come that size. This one was a rescue as a 5-month old puppy. She has all the wonderful traits of a golden because she is one. Although, she is so small that people often ask me what breed she is, or if she's a mix.


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## Shalva

DanaRuns said:


> So, this sweet, bizarre little AKC registered Golden Retriever with the mud on her face in my signature photos weighs just 45 lbs. they do come that size. This one was a rescue as a 5-month old puppy. She has all the wonderful traits of a golden because she is one. Although, she is so small that people often ask me what breed she is, or if she's a mix.


the question is did you know she was going to be 45 lbs when you got her??? thats the issue... yes I have met some small goldens but it is hard to know that they will be that small as puppies. Your girl was a rescue so you may have had an idea that she would be small as you got her when she was a bit older but in a puppy it is hard to know, it really is just a guess. My smallest male from my last litter is now the same size as the other larger males... the smallest girl has stayed very small at 53 pounds


----------



## DanaRuns

Shalva said:


> the question is did you know she was going to be 45 lbs when you got her??? thats the issue... yes I have met some small goldens but it is hard to know that they will be that small as puppies. Your girl was a rescue so you may have had an idea that she would be small as you got her when she was a bit older but in a puppy it is hard to know, it really is just a guess. My smallest male from my last litter is now the same size as the other larger males... the smallest girl has stayed very small at 53 pounds


Yeah, because I got her at fiv months it was pretty obvious she was going to be smaller. The only reason I ended up with her is because nobody else wanted her. Their loss! :--heart:


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## Millie'sMom

Here is my little CKC registered 45 pound golden girl.








She comes from a within standard mom (22 inches and 60 lbs) and a dad who was 80lbs.
Her litter was fostered in my livingroom. I certainly never would have guessed she would be this small, as there were at least 2 puppies much smaller than her.


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## Dexter12

Dex thinks he's a comfort Golden every time he throws all 80lbs of himself on my lap. 

I've read the website, and I think the breeder sounds completely unreliable and the webpage is rambling.


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## vcm5

Dexter12 said:


> Dex thinks he's a comfort Golden every time he throws all 80lbs of himself on my lap.


Haha, too funny! I think they all feel this way!


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## Burd

vcm5 said:


> Haha, too funny! I think they all feel this way!


LOL! : Too true! When go for rides in the car, Dixie sits in my lap. She does the same when she's getting brushed.


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## darealsunny

Oh wow, No offense guys, but calling a dog "ugly" or disgusting is just appalling. I agree, the breeder's behavior might be ugly or disgusting, but the dogs? No, I believe every dog has their qualities, it just takes a caring owner to show those qualities. 

Those dogs are in fact cute, they resemble golden retrievers. I would be glad to adopt one, but I would not from that breeder due to the fact that I don't trust/support the way he markets innocent pups. 

All in all: be disgusted with the human, not the dog.


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## RShea

I am all for creating new breeds but Willy nilly cross breeding to sell the pups for lots of money is popular because if you can be the first to think of a new cross and its Target audience can be rich white women then you can make all the morning shows And get
loads of money. From what I see this has been the target of most cross breedings... All the poodle crosses offer for smaller frames with the personality of what ever it is crossed with also it will never shed... What rich white women wouldn't want that?

Edit: no offense to rich white women I'm just saying what I see as the goals of these breeders...


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## Jamm

Honestly, if they we're creating a 'comfort' golden retriever to serve some sort of purpose, like maybe SAR to get in small places? seeing eye dogs for kids/seniors, field work in tiny places... but even then i'm trying to find excuses out of thin air. If someone wanted a smaller dog to do ANY of those things... there's already breeds out there that fit the standard. I too am all for the creation and studying of a new breed... as long as it is for a purpose... and that purpose can not be to sell it for $2000+ and put 'comfort, petit, etc' in front of the name.

edit: re-reading... my post doesn't really make sense.. lol i just woke up but I think you guys know what I mean!


----------



## vcm5

darealsunny said:


> Oh wow, No offense guys, but calling a dog "ugly" or disgusting is just appalling. I agree, the breeder's behavior might be ugly or disgusting, but the dogs? No, I believe every dog has their qualities, it just takes a caring owner to show those qualities.
> 
> Those dogs are in fact cute, they resemble golden retrievers. I would be glad to adopt one, but I would not from that breeder due to the fact that I don't trust/support the way he markets innocent pups.
> 
> All in all: be disgusted with the human, not the dog.


I don't think that anyone called the dogs disgusting? Just that the breeding was not responsible and that the price was pretty disgusting for what it was. 

The thing that really bothers me is that innocent people are being tricked by breeders into thinking these kinds of things are real and they are being so terribly duped, its unfair.


----------



## RShea

Jamm I understand what you were saying. The reason I said I'm all for creating new breeds is like you if its for a purpose. To me any person creating a new breed would want to keep all the pups from especially the first few generations or atleast have some pretty tight control over them (not sell them) where if there were some traits you saw in one of the kids you liked then you would be able to keep it in your breeding program.


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## Shalva

I agree with Jamm.... I am not totally against new breeds... I am against people "creating" a new breed with no purpose other than to call it some silly name and lie to people about its designer status or other non existent traits... 

I am not even totally against doodles... if: they wrote a standard, created a stud book, moved on to 2nd 3rd 4th generation animals... stabilized the breed and started working towards an actual breed but that is not what they are doing... they are charging ridiculous amounts of money, lying to people about hypo-allergenic, not doing clearances etc etc etc. that is personally my issue... There were other breeds that were created to be pets... Cockapoos are a great example these dogs had their hayday in the fifties... and here we are 60 years later and the breeders are still breeding first generation dogs... there is no move toward stabilization... that tells me its not about creating a breed... its about making money...


----------



## Lilliam

Shalva said:


> I agree with Jamm.... I am not totally against new breeds... I am against people "creating" a new breed with no purpose other than to call it some silly name and lie to people about its designer status or other non existent traits...
> 
> I am not even totally against doodles... if: they wrote a standard, created a stud book, moved on to 2nd 3rd 4th generation animals... stabilized the breed and started working towards an actual breed but that is not what they are doing... they are charging ridiculous amounts of money, lying to people about hypo-allergenic, not doing clearances etc etc etc. that is personally my issue... There were other breeds that were created to be pets... Cockapoos are a great example these dogs had their hayday in the fifties... and here we are 60 years later and the breeders are still breeding first generation dogs... there is no move toward stabilization... that tells me its not about creating a breed... its about making money...


Wow....you just taught me *why* I feel conflicted when all these xxxxoodles running around bother me so much yet I understand and accept Lord Tweetmouth's crossings of different breeds towards the golden. You crystallised it for me.


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


----------



## mylissyk

Lets makes this even better, they use "guardian homes". Give a family a dog for them to take care of, then return it to be bred as often as the breeder chooses.

http://www.goldendoodle.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/guardian-home-overview-1.doc


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## Loisiana

Wow, I got a steal of a deal with my "miniature golden." $900 for a purebred golden, parents (and previous generations) health tested, etc, etc, for my 47 pound boy.

Darn, I knew I should have kept him intact, could have made a fortune studding out for future teacup goldens :doh:


----------



## Millie'sMom

sherlySeptiani said:


> LOL... but there are quite many breeders doing this right?
> Like this one.. Home
> 
> This is quite creepy to me :new (15):


I checked out that website. What a scary place. I think she actually "believes" she is creating a new breed.

from her website:

We are registered with the Certified Pet Registry so we are well on our way of making the Miniature Golden Retriever a Pure bred dog. 

I think I will stick with my purebred "mini" golden. She maybe little, but she is everything I could possibly want.


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## MercyMom

Lilliam said:


> Wow....you just taught me *why* I feel conflicted when all these xxxxoodles running around bother me so much yet I understand and accept Lord Tweetmouth's crossings of different breeds towards the golden. You crystallised it for me.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


I was going to say something like that, but kept my mouth shut until now. I have seen for example ads in Dog Fancy's breeder directory for Miniature Australian Shepherds(A.K.A. North American Shepherds). It was many years ago when I first saw the ad. I really thought it was a new breed carefully crafted. Are they? :scratchch I can see that the Comfort Retriever *is* a ridiculous marketing ploy. Breeds don't have their own registered trademark as they are not products! I admit, I am fascinated by the science of new breed creation. I used to be fascinated with hybrid dogs, but I know how unethical cross-breeding practices are. I find myself irritated by GoldenDoodles and English Cremes, but I confess when I first saw this, anger and being sickened was not my first reaction, fascination was. What if a Miniature Golden (with perhaps a different name since it would be a separate breed) like the Miniature Schnauzer could be with years of careful research and genetic testing with a variation of purpose be a new breed if done the right way, unlike the people who designed The Comfort Retriever? I am happy with my soon to be 70+ pounds comfort Retriever whom I will gladly share to help hurting people.

Another thing I find interesting is that when I clicked on the link to see pictures, my Anti-Virus software told me it was a dangerous site.:scratchch So I did not get to see the pictures.


----------



## grilltacular

Hello all. Stumbled on this site and took the time to register because I actually do own a Comfort Retriever from this breeder. His name is Ajax and he just turned 3 years old. True to word, he grew to about 35 lbs, and looks/acts like the genuine article - just smaller. 

He has had no health issues, is well-socialized and well behaved. He's my little buddy!

I do understand where a lot of people on this website are coming from, so let me share a bit about myself. I had never had a dog before this one, apart from my college roommate who had a border collie for 3 years. I knew I wouldn't be able to handle a large or herding dog. Golden retrievers had the perfect personality, but were too large. Then I stumbled on Kathy's site. 

My dog has been great for me. I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.


----------



## Selli-Belle

grilltacular said:


> Hello all. Stumbled on this site and took the time to register because I actually do own a Comfort Retriever from this breeder. His name is Ajax and he just turned 3 years old. True to word, he grew to about 35 lbs, and looks/acts like the genuine article - just smaller.
> 
> He has had no health issues, is well-socialized and well behaved. He's my little buddy!
> 
> I do understand where a lot of people on this website are coming from, so let me share a bit about myself. I had never had a dog before this one, apart from my college roommate who had a border collie for 3 years. I knew I wouldn't be able to handle a large or herding dog. Golden retrievers had the perfect personality, but were too large. Then I stumbled on Kathy's site.
> 
> My dog has been great for me. I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.


It is a great thing that you are in love with your pup but, with all due respect, If you never owned or even lived with a Golden before, how would you know how a "genuine" Golden acts?


----------



## grilltacular

"It is a great thing that you are in love with your pup but, with all due respect, If you never owned or even lived with a Golden before, how would you know how a "genuine" Golden acts?"

Well, I'm 32 so I'm no stranger to dogs. Obviously I've been _around _golden's before. There is a lot of available information on their temperament, and I'd say he fits the description. 

I post some pictures of him playing nicely with children but I wouldn't feel comfortable without asking their parents.


----------



## Millie'sMom

grilltacular said:


> "It is a great thing that you are in love with your pup but, with all due respect, If you never owned or even lived with a Golden before, how would you know how a "genuine" Golden acts?"
> 
> Well, I'm 32 so I'm no stranger to dogs. Obviously I've been _around _golden's before. There is a lot of available information on their temperament, and I'd say he fits the description.
> 
> I post some pictures of him playing nicely with children but I wouldn't feel comfortable without asking their parents.


Photoshop is a wonderful tool, just blur the children's faces and post away.

I do not consider Wikipedia the most reliable place to get information, on a golden's temperment (try the AKC or Golden Retriever Club) or anything else for that matter.

My purebred golden, is "petite" and is smaller (45 lbs) than some of their "comfort" retrievers. This breeder does not post the registered names of her dogs, or their OFA numbers to independently verify their clearances, and I would never pay over $2000 for what is essentially a mutt. Goldendoodles, which is what these dogs are, are a dime a dozen. The comfort retrievers are worth so much more because they are trademarked?

I am glad you are happy with you dog, and I guess in the end that is all that matters.


----------



## Shalva

MercyMom said:


> I find myself irritated by GoldenDoodles and English Cremes,


Let me just comment on this .... please don't put English dogs into the same category as golden doodles and other artificial mixed breeds like these comfort retrievers. 

the term English Creme is definitely used by disreputable breeders and often they get their dogs from less than reputable sources BUT an English style golden IS a pure bred golden. They are golden retrievers like any other... they are not a mixed breed created to line the pockets of their breeders... AND there ARE reputable breeders of this type of dog, We breed and register our dogs with the AKC as light gold. 

Several of my dogs could be called creme, cream, platinum, white... and probably would be by less reputable breeders. The fact is that I prefer to call them light gold as that is what they are registered as. But they are just golden retrievers... and there is more to a golden retriever than color. Should the less than reputable breeders annoy you ... sure... they annoy me. Just keep in mind that not all dogs who are lighter in color come from those breeders.


----------



## tippykayak

There's every chance that this guy's dog is sweet and wonderful and just like a Golden. I'm absolutely confident that lots of the "comfort" lady's dogs come out this way. @Grilltacular: please stick around. You and your dog are super welcome, even though you arrived in a thread where lots of us are being critical of his breeding program. Criticism of a program isn't criticism of an individual dog. After all, he had no input on his breeding.

*The issue for us is that her practices can't stack the deck in the dogs' favor when it comes to temperament, health, and type.* One great dog doesn't vindicate risky breeding practices.

I've got an Ajax too! Tell us about yours. But start a fun new thread in the new members section or the pics section or somewhere more fun. This thread isn't likely to shift away from strong, evidence-based criticism of risky breeding practices.


----------



## Wyatt's mommy

grilltacular said:


> Hello all. Stumbled on this site and took the time to register because I actually do own a Comfort Retriever from this breeder. His name is Ajax and he just turned 3 years old. True to word, he grew to about 35 lbs, and looks/acts like the genuine article - just smaller.
> 
> He has had no health issues, is well-socialized and well behaved. He's my little buddy!
> 
> I do understand where a lot of people on this website are coming from, so let me share a bit about myself. I had never had a dog before this one, apart from my college roommate who had a border collie for 3 years. I knew I wouldn't be able to handle a large or herding dog. Golden retrievers had the perfect personality, but were too large. Then I stumbled on Kathy's site.
> 
> My dog has been great for me. I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.


Welcome! Would love to see photos of your little buddy!


----------



## grilltacular

Thanks for the warm welcome. Certainly, I welcome any evidence-based criticisms of this breeding program or even my sweet little pup. I do reject many of the outright false statements being repeated on this board though, such as the claim that Kathy doesn't put her dogs through rigorous health tests. She does, and the information is readily available on her website. 

Also, there seems to be a bizarre amount of armchair geneticists making claims about the "Scientifically proven" ideal qualities of a GR. It appears that some owners value a dog's pedigree as a status symbol; others appreciate or have an emotional attachment to the physical or behavioral traits of certain breeds; still others erroneously believe that a pedigree means a dog will have superior personality traits and health.


----------



## Sally's Mom

Some of us look at pedigrees to see what is behind the dogs we own/breed. What is in my own dogs' pedigrees is multi generations of hip, eye, heart, and elbow clearances. It is not emotional or a status symbol, it is fact...


----------



## Sally's Mom

Grilltacular, having been around Goldens means nothing...


----------



## Millie'sMom

grilltacular said:


> Thanks for the warm welcome. Certainly, I welcome any evidence-based criticisms of this breeding program or even my sweet little pup. I do reject many of the outright false statements being repeated on this board though, such as the claim that Kathy doesn't put her dogs through rigorous health tests. She does, and the information is readily available on her website.
> 
> 
> Please point me in the right direction on her website, where she lists her clearances, and the information that allows them to be independently verifiable, as I cannot seem to find them.
> 
> I would never criticize your puppy because she is loved and cared for and that is all she wants. You adore her, what more could a puppy want.


----------



## Jersey's Mom

grilltacular said:


> Thanks for the warm welcome. Certainly, I welcome any evidence-based criticisms of this breeding program or even my sweet little pup. I do reject many of the outright false statements being repeated on this board though, such as the claim that Kathy doesn't put her dogs through rigorous health tests. She does, and the information is readily available on her website.
> 
> Also, there seems to be a bizarre amount of armchair geneticists making claims about the "Scientifically proven" ideal qualities of a GR. It appears that some owners value a dog's pedigree as a status symbol; others appreciate or have an emotional attachment to the physical or behavioral traits of certain breeds; still others erroneously believe that a pedigree means a dog will have superior personality traits and health.


I think you've grossly misrepresented what many posters are saying on this thread. 

What Kathy lists on her website is what tests should be done for each breed of dog (under the health info link). What she does not do is give the registered names of her breeding dogs or actual clearance numbers so that the information can be independently verified by the prospective dog owner. That's what forum members were saying. Without that information, it's could well be just a bunch of hot air. She would hardly be the first person to write all about the things a breeder "should" do and then not actually do it.

I don't know of anyone on this forum talking about "'Scientifically proven' ideal qualities of a GR. There is no such thing. There is, however, the golden retriever standard as written by the Golden Retriever Club of America. This is what defines exactly what a golden retriever is... and what it isn't. This is the ideal that every GR breeder should be striving for. 

If people didn't have an "emotional attachment to the physical or behavioral traits of certain breeds," the breeds would cease to exist. We preserve these breeds (including the health, structure, and temperament of such) because of that emotional attachment and the dedication that it breeds. Are you saying that is a bad thing?

The people on this forum have said many many many times that simply having a pedigree (another name for a family tree, and likely referencing the fact that dogs are AKC registered) means nothing about the quality of the dogs being produced by a particular breeder. What is important is truly researching and understanding those pedigrees and finding the best match when setting up a breeding pair. Part of this is the clearances, part of it is getting out there and competing in one or more venues to get an impartial view of the quality of the breeding dog's temperament and/or structure and/or working ability, and part of it is knowing what the given lines tend to produce. A reputable breeder spends countless hours learning this information and using it to produce dogs that are true to the GR standard in every way. This is what produces "superior personality traits and health." 

Hope that clears things up for you a little bit. It's hard to come into a huge, long running forum like this and read just one conversation (in a long line of similar discussions) and fully get the gist of what people are saying. I didn't mean to imply that you purposely mischaracterized people's statements... and wanted to make sure I say that right up front. 

Welcome to the forum.

Julie, Jersey and Oz


----------



## Millie'sMom

Jersey's Mom said:


> I think you've grossly misrepresented what many posters are saying on this thread.
> 
> What Kathy lists on her website is what tests should be done for each breed of dog (under the health info link). What she does not do is give the registered names of her breeding dogs or actual clearance numbers so that the information can be independently verified by the prospective dog owner. That's what forum members were saying. Without that information, it's could well be just a bunch of hot air. She would hardly be the first person to write all about the things a breeder "should" do and then not actually do it.
> 
> Thank you Jersey's Mom, I am glad I am not the only one who noticed.
> 
> Grilltacular--There is a doodle breeder in Canada, that has posted clearances on her website on dogs that are too young to have clearances, they won't be 2 until 2013. There is no record of these dogs on OFA or CERF databases, either. Although I understand your dog can have undergone a CERF exam and not had the paperwork sent in. Unless you can verify these clearances, independently, then I believe, Jersey's Mom is right that might not exist.


----------



## grilltacular

Sally's Mom said:


> Some of us look at pedigrees to see what is behind the dogs we own/breed. What is in my own dogs' pedigrees is multi generations of hip, eye, heart, and elbow clearances. It is not emotional or a status symbol, it is fact...


That's great! My Ajax is also the result of generations of such clearances. I think it is salient to observe that insurance companies charge less for cross-breeds than for purebreds though. Perhaps their actuaries know something we don't?


----------



## MercyMom

grilltacular said:


> Hello all. Stumbled on this site and took the time to register because I actually do own a Comfort Retriever from this breeder. His name is Ajax and he just turned 3 years old. True to word, he grew to about 35 lbs, and looks/acts like the genuine article - just smaller.
> 
> He has had no health issues, is well-socialized and well behaved. He's my little buddy!
> 
> I do understand where a lot of people on this website are coming from, so let me share a bit about myself. I had never had a dog before this one, apart from my college roommate who had a border collie for 3 years. I knew I wouldn't be able to handle a large or herding dog. Golden retrievers had the perfect personality, but were too large. Then I stumbled on Kathy's site.
> 
> My dog has been great for me. I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.


Welcome. I am glad you have a loving cuddle bug.


----------



## Millie'sMom

grilltacular said:


> That's great! My Ajax is also the result of generations of such clearances.
> 
> Ajax's breeder says his parents, grandparents etc have the clearances, but I think you are missing the point. If the clearances cannot be verified by an independent source, they may not exist.
> 
> What are the registered names or OFA certificate numbers of Ajax's parents? It only takes a second to verify them with OFA data base.


----------



## SheetsSM

grilltacular said:


> That's great! My Ajax is also the result of generations of such clearances. I think it is salient to observe that insurance companies charge less for cross-breeds than for purebreds though. Perhaps their actuaries know something we don't?


Are you willing to share the registered names of your dog's sire & dam, it would certainly give credence to your claims.


----------



## grilltacular

"What are the registered names or OFA certificate numbers of Ajax's parents? It only takes a second to verify them with OFA data base."

I'll have to look that information up to see if I have it. I'll admit I also purchased my car without a carfax, though. 

I thought people might be interested to see the purchase contract. Here you go! Page 1: http://i.imgur.com/qSZky.jpg
Page2: http://i.imgur.com/52gDj.jpg


----------



## MercyMom

Shalva said:


> Let me just comment on this .... please don't put English dogs into the same category as golden doodles and other artificial mixed breeds like these comfort retrievers.
> 
> the term English Creme is definitely used by disreputable breeders and often they get their dogs from less than reputable sources BUT an English style golden IS a pure bred golden. They are golden retrievers like any other... they are not a mixed breed created to line the pockets of their breeders... AND there ARE reputable breeders of this type of dog, We breed and register our dogs with the AKC as light gold.
> 
> Several of my dogs could be called creme, cream, platinum, white... and probably would be by less reputable breeders. The fact is that I prefer to call them light gold as that is what they are registered as. But they are just golden retrievers... and there is more to a golden retriever than color. Should the less than reputable breeders annoy you ... sure... they annoy me. Just keep in mind that not all dogs who are lighter in color come from those breeders.


I agree with you whole heartedly. I know that there are reputable breeders like yourself who breed Goldens that are creme in color. I think you're awesome by the way! I have no problem with reputably bred Goldens that meet the standard who happen to be cream colored. I also don't mind Golden Retrievers outside the United States bred according to the equivalent of the GRCA standard including real English Goldens (Goldens from the U.K.), which are actually real Goldens like the rest of them.

What annoys me are breeders who breed designer dogs, giving their dogs labels, using false advertising etc. that are not according to the GRCA standard including those who breed Golden hybrids. I admit that while I think the Comfort Retrievers are cute, I in no way endorse their breeding practices.

Breeders falsely advertising Goldens as English Creme and charging more for them than what they call American Goldens is what irritates me. I found alot of them during my own search for a breeder. :no: 

The irresponsible breeding of Golden Doodles and Comfort Retrievers is a separate type of irresponsible breeding practice that I don't like.

Like everyone else, I agree that there is no such thing as a special type of Golden, nor should there be.

I tend to use the wrong choice of words sometimes and I am working on that.


----------



## SheetsSM

grilltacular said:


> "What are the registered names or OFA certificate numbers of Ajax's parents? It only takes a second to verify them with OFA data base."
> 
> I'll have to look that information up to see if I have it. I'll admit I also purchased my car without a carfax, though.


I too purchased my car without carfax--then again I didn't have a dealer claiming what carfax said either. Would be great to see the registered names and thus be able to validate the assertion of generations of clearances.


----------



## Millie'sMom

I looked at your contract, looks pretty standard. Unfortunately, anyone can type up a contract and make it look good. What I did notice was the top of the 1st page is cut off, where the names of the parents would be. I also notice in the contract that Ajax (or any puppy) is referred to as a doodle and not a Comfort Retriever. So which is it?

Still waiting for direction to Kathy's website where she posts the clearances, and the registered names of the Ajax's parents, validate the long history of clearances.


----------



## Shalva

MercyMom said:


> I know that there are reputable breeders like yourself who breed Goldens that are creme in color. I think you're awesome by the way!


Thank you so much for these kind words. I really do appreciate it... I think you are pretty cool too.


----------



## tippykayak

grilltacular said:


> That's great! My Ajax is also the result of generations of such clearances. I think it is salient to observe that insurance companies charge less for cross-breeds than for purebreds though. Perhaps their actuaries know something we don't?


What do you mean? Are you referring to pet health insurance? If so, could you point me to a plan that charges different premiums for purebred vs. crossbred dogs?

Edited to add: I just got quotes from a pet insurance website, and using the same information (5 year old male dog), picking "designer/hybrid" gave me a quote about 8% lower than picking "Golden Retriever." I'm not sure what that proves, but Grilltacular is essentially right in claiming that they charge differently, at least for GRs. My guess is that small dogs are probably cheaper than large, rather than it being a purebred/crossbred difference, but make of it what you will.


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## tippykayak

FYI - Switching it from "designer/hybrid" to "Beagle" is the same price. Switching it to "Rottweiler" makes it more than the premium for a Golden. 

It's not a purebred/crossbred difference. I'm pretty sure it's an actuarial average of risk factors associated mostly with size. Goldens may be flagged as a high risk breed as well. The more popular breeds have elevated risk factors, simply because they're bred so indiscriminately, and there's no way for an insurance company to weed out lower risk purebreds from the much more common higher risk purebreds in the same breed.


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## Sally's Mom

Well, I see doodles here who have cataracts that blind them, that develop diabetes, that develop Addison's disease... that have horrible skin and ear problems, etc. We actually joke here about the so called "hybrid vigor".

And the contract has the hip clause that always cracks me up. The dog has to have moderate to severe hip dysplasia to be covered. A dog could in theory have mild hip dysplasia on rads and be extremely painful and have horrible rads, but not so painful. A Grade 3-4 patellar luxation is pretty severe.. A condition not so common in Goldens, but very common in toy and mini poodles...


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## Wyatt's mommy

tippykayak said:


> FYI - Switching it from "designer/hybrid" to "Beagle" is the same price. Switching it to "Rottweiler" makes it more than the premium for a Golden.
> 
> It's not a purebred/crossbred difference. I'm pretty sure it's an actuarial average of risk factors associated mostly with size. Goldens may be flagged as a high risk breed as well. The more popular breeds have elevated risk factors, simply because they're bred so indiscriminately, and there's no way for an insurance company to weed out lower risk purebreds from the much more common higher risk purebreds in the same breed.


 
Interesting! What does it say for mixed breeds aka mutts?

I would think the insurance companies would rate on incidents wouldn't they?


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## maggiehnh

I have read all the criticisms about Comfort Retrievers, however, we are the owners of one of Kathy's dogs. We wanted another Golden Retriever, but at 65+ could not handle the weight of a full grown one. We went to see Kathy and the dog we were going to purchase. He was beautiful, well behaved and gentle, and still is with children, at 50 lbs. just as she estimated he would be because of the mix--Retriever and toy poodle. There are many ways and reasons people look for various pets. Kathy has a very large following by previous owners. Many people do not like designer dogs/mutts as many of you refer to them, but we love our dog and everyone who has ever come in contact with him asks about his good behavior, beautiful appearance and coat (just like a full blood retriever).


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## KeaColorado

Welcome to the forum! Of course you love your dog  There are many folks here on this forum who are fanciers of the golden retriever breed, as written in the breed standard, and therefore don't support breeding hybrid dogs and also don't support purposely breeding golden retrievers that are over or under the breed standard for weight and height to appeal to a certain market demand (they are not supposed to be 100+ lbs). 

My female GR weighs 55 lbs, so she is on the small side but still within the standard for a female. 

This is kind of an old-ish thread, so you might want to start a new thread in the member introduction area where you can share some pics of your boy.


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## abiwil14

Baloo said:


> My wife and I lost our female yellow labrador retriever (our first child and best friend rolled into one happy, furry body) a few months ago. We adopted her when she was two, and she proved to be the best dog in our extended network of dog friends. We consider ourselves blessed to have had Roxanne in our life for the past 10 years.
> 
> We realize that our lives sort of demand the presence of a Roxanne. But the truth is, that we desire a retriever breed dog that is in the 40-50 pound range. That is because we often hike and, invariably, a dog will get injured at some point in its life. I can honestly state that trotting four miles with an 80+ pound dog with seriously-injured pads in a fireman's carry across your shoulders is a horrible experience for the human and its dog passenger. It certainly lets you know really quickly how out of shape you are.
> 
> So, our requirement for a dog is that it be a retriever breed, yellow(ish) and 50 lbs. Taking a look around, there is no such dog that "conforms" to those requirements. Then we came across the comfort retriever people. We only started looking at breeders when we realized that we weren't likely to find a dog through any of the lab, golden or doodle rescues because the Las Vegas area has a very limited supply, and the California and Arizona rescues were unwilling to adopt out to a family that lived 5+ hours away. It really is something to discover how hard it is to rescue a dog. Honestly ridiculous.
> 
> So, we were darn near literally driven to a breeder. And for a dog that fit our outdoor activities weight limit, the comfort retriever folks seemed to be the ticket. I spent some time seeking out their puppy boot-camp youtube videos, and they appeared to be fairly appropriate with the pups.
> 
> So, before one rushes to cast dispersions on them, I figure its worth considering that they're offering a pet that has the prospect of working much better for some folks. After all, one upon a time, there was one breed of schnauzer. Now there are at least 3 versions; mini, standard and giant. Clearly, each of those distinct "breeds" began via crosses between some original schnauzer stock which was mixed with other stock. Heck the GR itself began as a mix of other stock. I wonder if the Tweed Water Spaniel breeders were as chagrinned by the crossing of their Tweed as the commenters are in this thread regarding the Comfort.
> 
> It is ridiculous for them to trademark comfort retriever? No. That is their brand, and they are smart to guard it from dilution via use by unscrupulous backyard breeders making random crosses of random dogs unchecked for health or temperament issues.
> 
> If I could source a 3-year old or younger female golden on the yellowish end of the spectrum (as opposed to red) that weighed in the neighborhood of 40-50 lbs from a rescue, and she wasn't neurotic beyond belief and showed no dog-on-dog or food aggression, I'd take her in a second. But that road has not been fruitful. That said, I'm likely going to reserve a comfort.
> 
> If someone here wants to offer a realistic and workable solution quickly, I'm all ears.


DoodleQuest is the only one with comfort retrievers. I think it is a great idea. In fact I got one from them at half price and paid for their training as I was impressed with their video. Well, don't. The dog I just got from them is not a well trained, well-adjusted dog I was led to believe. He is in flight mode always, scared of the slightest sound or movement and hides in the yard or park and won't play. I have had my son's retriever visit and she plays ball and loves to play with other dogs and does not chase my cats.
For the price I do not expect this damaged a dog. Beware.


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## alphadude

4k for a "trained" mutt? LOL PT Barnum was right. Effin snake oil salesmen.


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## Max's Dad

Apparently now their dogs are golden doodles. The web site is vague on what they are breeding, but possibly miniature poodles and Goldens? They gave up on the cocker spaniel. Complete rip off.


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## Dancer

Baloo said:


> My wife and I lost our female yellow labrador retriever (our first child and best friend rolled into one happy, furry body) a few months ago. We adopted her when she was two, and she proved to be the best dog in our extended network of dog friends. We consider ourselves blessed to have had Roxanne in our life for the past 10 years.
> 
> We realize that our lives sort of demand the presence of a Roxanne. But the truth is, that we desire a retriever breed dog that is in the 40-50 pound range. That is because we often hike and, invariably, a dog will get injured at some point in its life. I can honestly state that trotting four miles with an 80+ pound dog with seriously-injured pads in a fireman's carry across your shoulders is a horrible experience for the human and its dog passenger. It certainly lets you know really quickly how out of shape you are.
> 
> So, our requirement for a dog is that it be a retriever breed, yellow(ish) and 50 lbs. Taking a look around, there is no such dog that "conforms" to those requirements. Then we came across the comfort retriever people. We only started looking at breeders when we realized that we weren't likely to find a dog through any of the lab, golden or doodle rescues because the Las Vegas area has a very limited supply, and the California and Arizona rescues were unwilling to adopt out to a family that lived 5+ hours away. It really is something to discover how hard it is to rescue a dog. Honestly ridiculous.
> 
> So, we were darn near literally driven to a breeder. And for a dog that fit our outdoor activities weight limit, the comfort retriever folks seemed to be the ticket. I spent some time seeking out their puppy boot-camp youtube videos, and they appeared to be fairly appropriate with the pups.
> 
> So, before one rushes to cast dispersions on them, I figure its worth considering that they're offering a pet that has the prospect of working much better for some folks. After all, one upon a time, there was one breed of schnauzer. Now there are at least 3 versions; mini, standard and giant. Clearly, each of those distinct "breeds" began via crosses between some original schnauzer stock which was mixed with other stock. Heck the GR itself began as a mix of other stock. I wonder if the Tweed Water Spaniel breeders were as chagrinned by the crossing of their Tweed as the commenters are in this thread regarding the Comfort.
> 
> It is ridiculous for them to trademark comfort retriever? No. That is their brand, and they are smart to guard it from dilution via use by unscrupulous backyard breeders making random crosses of random dogs unchecked for health or temperament issues.
> 
> If I could source a 3-year old or younger female golden on the yellowish end of the spectrum (as opposed to red) that weighed in the neighborhood of 40-50 lbs from a rescue, and she wasn't neurotic beyond belief and showed no dog-on-dog or food aggression, I'd take her in a second. But that road has not been fruitful. That said, I'm likely going to reserve a comfort.
> 
> If someone here wants to offer a realistic and workable solution quickly, I'm all ears.


I'm sorry for the loss of your Roxanne. There are so many breeds out there though, I'm certain there is one that fits your requirements. Even the diversity that exists within just the sporting group is very impressive, and they're all bred to be highly trainable and work closely with humans (generalization). It really sounds to me like you might want to really spend a bit more time investigating the other members of the sporting group, and the first one that comes to mind is the Nova Scotia Duck Rolling Retriever. When we were due using on a breed, it came down to Tollers and goldens for us. Both are lovely and highly trainable, but we prefer golden partially for their larger size! 

I hope you find what you're looking for. I'm confident the right breed is already out there, being bred responsibly by someone who is doing all the recommended clearances! 

ETA: the Toller weighs between 37- 51 lbs (females on the lower end, males on the higher), and stands between 18 - 20 inches at the shoulder. Anyone looking at these "Comfort Retrievers" would do better to look at the Toller!!

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## Dancer

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## tippykayak

Tollers are awesome, but they're very different from Goldens in terms of temperament. They much more independent, higher energy on average, and potentially less ideal for inexperienced owners than Goldens are. Like well-bred Goldens, they can be whip smart, but unlike Goldens, they can be higher strung, like a herding dog. That's awesome if that's what you're looking for, but they can be harder to train for an inexperienced person. They also scream when they're excited.

I _love_ Tollers, but my understanding is that they are not a great substitute for somebody who wants a smaller Golden.

To the earlier point (and I may have written this in the distant history of the thread somewhere), the standard says Golden girls should be 55-65 pounds. You can get a well-bred girl who should max out in the low 50s if kept ideally lean.


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## Tahnee GR

Trollers definitely do not have the Golden temperament though

One thing I found odd when looking at the Comfort Retriever website was that when promoting a litter, a link would be given to clearances for the Goldens but not for the current Comfort Retriever parent.

The 6% comes from a study done with Standard Poodles. Not the be all and all, but good info. However, as many articles point out, COI is just one part of the equation. Health clearances and knowledge of the pedigree are others. I would rather a COI of 20% on a known pedigree with great longevity and a solid history of health clearances than a COI of 5% with lots of unknowns and a poor history of clearances and longevity.

And of course, with well established breeds like Goldens and Cockers, the more generations you factor into you calculation of COI, the higher COI you will generally get.


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## Dancer

Ok, well them I guess the only option is to get a comfort retriever. 

ETA: I haven't had coffee yet. What I meant to say is: of course Tollers aren't as awesome in every way as Goldens (IMO). That's why I have a golden. But there are pros and cons to every breed, and there are 175 different recognized breeds in the CKC. AKC is probably similar. I'm certain there are options that fit everyone's criteria. There's no need to buy a mixed breed from people of ill repute- save someone from a shelter or go to a reputable breeder. 

Ok. So obviously I could use some Baileys in the coffee this morning...

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## maggiehnh

*Comfort Retrievers...*

We are on our third Comfort Retriever. The temperaments of these dogs are amazing. It couldn't be that we lucked out with one as all three are that way. Kathy breeds Comfort Retrievers and Golden Doodles and does a great deal of health testing. She is THE most upstanding breeder I have ever come across in my 67 years. Kathy screens the potential owners and runs a first-class kennel. Her goal is to be sure that each of her puppies go to a good home, AND if at any time during the dog's life, you cannot keep it, Kathy will take it back and find a good home for it. We wanted Golden Retrievers, but cannot handle more than 50/55 lbs. One of our new puppies will max out at 30 lbs. These dogs are complete sweethearts. We went the rescue and every other route during our married life and decided with these last three that we wanted exactly what we wanted, and Kathy had that. It is disturbing that some have choice words and names for this breeder, but her one goal is to place these dogs in good "forever homes." No one mentioned how many of these dogs become service dogs, or the fact that for every so many service dogs purchased, Kathy donates one. These dogs are trained for a variety of services with autism and diabetic assistants just two of them. Don't throw this lady under the bus. She loves her dogs and runs a first class operation.


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## solinvictus

Maggiehnh you certainly look at ethics much different than I do. 

Ethics - the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture,

The Golden Retriever Club, the Poodle Club and The Cocker Club all have a code of ethics that state not to mix breeds.

here is the link to the cocker code of ethics.

http://www.acscgb.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/CLUB-CODE-OF-ETHICS.pdf

20. No member shall deliberately breed an American Cocker to any other breed (except
with prior consent from the officers and committee of the club or Kennel Club) in
order to produce cross breeds. 

Breeding these mixed breed dogs in no way betters the individual breed.

People can attempt to justify these breeding practices forever but until the individual clubs change their code of ethics those breeders mixing breeds are not quality breeders. 

We all get to purchase the dogs we want and if you are happy purchasing a dog from an irresponsible breeder that is your choice. Many owners make choices because they are not well informed/lack knowledge and no matter where a dog came from the dog should always be loved and be a priceless family member but for anyone that has the knowledge and still makes a choice to purchase this mixed breed dog from a breeder must have the same eithics as the breeder herself. I see it as not really caring about the dogs as a whole but only caring about their own individual wants. 

I don't believe you will change any minds here to your way of thinking but I wish you and your dogs a happy, healthy, loving life.


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## tippykayak

maggiehnh said:


> It is disturbing that some have choice words and names for this breeder, but her one goal is to place these dogs in good "forever homes."


Don't talk around the issue like she's running a rescue operation. She is producing these dogs in order to _sell_ them. That is her one goal. She doesn't compete and have a goal to produce a dog that is a great example of a standard or who can do a job. She is producing dogs in order to sell them for a profit ($4K a dog), plus she participates in every breeder profit maker, like NuVet and specific profit-sharing foods. Let's at least be honest about motives.

She also has a huge section on health issues in Goldens and Poodles (talking the talk), and it does look like she does some clearances. But with these outcrosses, she is throwing predictability out the window. And the pictures, however, while probably meant to be cute, seem to show dogs with highly problematic structure and at least one who seems to have blocked tear ducts. 

I'm glad you had a good experience, and I hope your dogs are healthy, but be careful whom you endorse publicly. You may regret what you've said once you learn more about what good breeders do and how they maximize a dog's chances at a long, healthy life.


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## maggiehnh

*Comfort Retrievers...*

I know what I am endorsing. Kathy Burgess is a reputable breeder selling the best tempered dogs I have ever come across. We have had 9 dogs over our married life; most were pedigree, but not all, and we found that the healthiest and least problematic were the blended breeds. So, get down off your arrogant soap boxes and realize there are choices out there that may be more appropriate for the lifestyles and physical abilities of some people.

Just an aside. Those Comfort Retrievers were taken to Newton, CT after the school shooting to comfort the children and families. They were also taken to visit with families of the 911 disaster victims. Barking hyper dogs would offer no solace in those situations, but Comfort Retrievers did.


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## rhondas

@maggiehnh

It was GOLDEN RETRIEVERS that visited Newton, Connecticut. Here's a link for one of the many articles that covered it: Dogs to help mend hearts in Newtown - Chicago Tribune

Furthermore it would have been very hard for Comfort Retrievers to be at the 9/11 Disaster Site in 2001 when the first one was not bred until 2003 per your breeders website - Breed History.


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## Tayla's Mom

As a rule I don't think barking hyper dogs are ever a good fit for therapy dogs of any kind. A mixed breed dog is what it is, a mixed breed and can make an incredible companion for people. A mixed breed dog can make a wonderful agility star, obedience dog, therapy dog, etc. My issue is there are plenty of mixed breed dogs out there is shelters that need loving homes. Dogs that have wonderful potential. Why create more and then sell them for a ridiculous amount of money? I've had two lovely mixes in my life. Dogs that were wonderful companions. Both adopted from shelters. I've had two pure bred Goldens, both adopted. People who tout keeping to the breed standard and only buying from "ethical" breeders are not on an arrogant soap box, they are trying to keep the Golden Retriever the wonderful dog it is and are working to make sure it stays as healthy as possible. Same with enthusiasts of other pure bred dogs. Some of those "cute" puppies look to have some issues with back and eye problems. That is what happens when you don't follow a standard and start breeding for things that shouldn't be bred for like size. Frankly, many of our pure bred dogs today have similar issues, but that is for another post. Enjoy your dog and I hope he lives a long healthy life.


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## solinvictus

" I would question the integrity and honesty of a breeder who won’t respect a trademark. Some of these breeders are so bold as to complain that we protected our trademark. They were breaking the law by ignoring the trademark and, based on their websites, are just as dishonest with the potential puppy owners. Please don’t be deceived by their double talk."

I think the above is all double talk when a breeder won't even follow the code of ethics of the breed club. Talking about honesty and integrity is so sad it is laughable.


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## Megora

rhondas said:


> @maggiehnh
> 
> It was GOLDEN RETRIEVERS that visited Newton, Connecticut. Here's a link for one of the many articles that covered it: Dogs to help mend hearts in Newtown - Chicago Tribune
> 
> Furthermore it would have been very hard for Comfort Retrievers to be at the 9/11 Disaster Site in 2001 when the first one was not bred until 2003 per your breeders website - Breed History.


I was wondering if I was confused there.... I didn't think that Inge and others here who I vaguely remember going to Newton - that any of those had mixed breeds....


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## Millie'sMom

maggiehnh said:


> No one mentioned how many of these dogs become service dogs, or the fact that for every so many service dogs purchased, Kathy donates one.


In Canada reputable breeders donate puppies and stud services to the service organizations. They do NOT expect the future service dogs to have to be purchased.

My younger golden girl, tops the scales at 52 lbs and is all golden in looks and temperment. Her littermate sister is approx 47 lbs.


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## tippykayak

Dancer said:


> Ok, well them I guess the only option is to get a comfort retriever.
> 
> ETA: I haven't had coffee yet. What I meant to say is: of course Tollers aren't as awesome in every way as Goldens (IMO). That's why I have a golden. But there are pros and cons to every breed, and there are 175 different recognized breeds in the CKC. AKC is probably similar. I'm certain there are options that fit everyone's criteria. There's no need to buy a mixed breed from people of ill repute- save someone from a shelter or go to a reputable breeder.
> 
> Ok. So obviously I could use some Baileys in the coffee this morning...


Bailey's in coffee is delicious. I wish I could do it without getting fired, lol.

I 100% agree with everything you said in your ETA. There is zero reason to buy a carelessly bred dog from an unpredictable litter, especially when you can have exactly that without paying a profiteer breeder and going to rescue instead (and with rescue, you get the amazing chance to be the hero to a dog who may not have any other way out of the shelter). Also, on the subject of Tollers, I think I would get one if I didn't have Goldens. I like my Goldens on the more intense, job-focused end of the spectrum (and wouldn't mind the screaming), so I think a Toller might fit in really well around here. All the kids in this generation of our extended family are over 5, so I wouldn't worry so much about having a more herdy, nippy, and less outgoing dog than a Golden. Plus, I don't live in apartments anymore, so a dog who screams when excited would be cute rather than a nuisance. 

I know that _you_ know that Tollers aren't really mini-Goldens, but I didn't want there to be any confusion for inexperienced people reading these threads. Sometimes inexperienced people do say or imply that Tollers are just like Goldens but smaller, and I'd hate for people to shop for Tollers based on that assumption and end up abandoning or rehoming a Toller when he turned out different from what they expected.


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## Dancer

tippykayak said:


> Bailey's in coffee is delicious. I wish I could do it without getting fired, lol.
> 
> I 100% agree with everything you said in your ETA. There is zero reason to buy a carelessly bred dog from an unpredictable litter, especially when you can have exactly that without paying a profiteer breeder and going to rescue instead. Also, on the subject of Tollers, I think I would get one if I didn't have Goldens. I like my Goldens on the more intense, job-focused end of the spectrum (and wouldn't mind the screaming), so I think a Toller might fit in really well around here. All the kids in this generation of our extended family are over 5, so I wouldn't worry so much about having a more herdy, nippy, and less outgoing dog than a Golden. Plus, I don't live in apartments anymore, so a dog who screams when excited would be cute rather than a nuisance.
> 
> I know that _you_ know that Tollers aren't really mini-Goldens, but I didn't want there to be any confusion for inexperienced people reading these threads. Sometimes inexperienced people do say or imply that Tollers are just like Goldens but smaller, and I'd hate for people to shop for Tollers based on that assumption and end up abandoning or rehoming a Toller when he turned out different from what they expected.


Lol I was just having a cranky moment. The coffee did help, FWIW! I agree though, drive is part of why we didn't go with a Toller. I just really wanted to stress that there are enough breeds out there that there is no need for this ridiculousness with schnoodles, doodles, puggles, chi-weenies.....has the whole world gone crazy?? For goodness sake- I posted a kijiji ad here a few months back where some fly-by-night was trying to sell 'mini sport retrievers'. I think the price was about $3500, depending on whether you wanted show quality or not (???!). Great- I'm getting fired up again and its not even 7am yet, lol. Back to the coffee...,and Bailey's...,

Also, FWIW, I had heard and read that cocker spaniels are lovely family dogs, so this business of them being nippy/bitey makes me question yet one more thing about that site. It might be challenging to find a well bred one (as it is with any popular breed), but my understanding is that epilepsy is the major problem- not an inherently defunct temperament! 

Anyways take home message: TONS of REAL dog breeds + TONS of poor souls waiting in shelters= no reason to buy from disreputable breeders, pet stores, byb's, or anyone who tries to convince a person that a 'comfort retriever' is an actual breed. 

And Tippy- saw pics of your boys on another thread- handsome!! Reminds me of my Stevie. And if you keep some gum at your desk you can have all the 'special' coffee you want!

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## Brads035

I think the issue of whether to purchase a purebred, adopt a rescue, or a mixed-breed is personal, and it is too easy to judge other people by claiming a moral high ground. The dog genome is highly plastic, which has allowed mankind to selectively breed dogs to suit a wide variety of ideals on the perfect companion. I personally do not have a problem with a breeder who responsibly is trying to create a new breed in order to serve a new need. There are people who would love to have a dog with the friendly personality, intelligence, and affection of a golden retriever in a smaller size. There appear to be a few breeders who are attempting to achieve this outcome. In 10-20 years the miniature golden may be established as a distinctive breed - which showcases these desired traits. Sometimes dogs in shelters have been damaged by prior abuse and are agressive and present risks to other dogs and people. You have to be highly skilled to rehabilitate such animals and I don't think anyone should be pressured to take on that kind of responsibility, while it is certainly noble. Pure-bred dogs also face the risks of limited gene-pools, over popularity, and irresponsible breeders who exacerbate health issues and defects. (Look at the evolution of the American bulldog over the last 50 years). The Dalmation suffers from several health issue and there have been successful back cross breeding programs with a pointer to inject healthy lines back into the breed. The end goal of a breeding program should be a happy and healthy companion. I understand this is a GR forum and love the breed. I think this should also be a place that welcomes owners of mixed puppies without dismissing their choice of canine family member. We should be courteous and respectful and open to others perspectives and experiences.


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## Megora

Stick around this forum, please. You will see that people are courteous and friendly to people who own mixed breeds. 

As people who own purebred dogs and choose this specific breed over others, it's frustrating when people use this breed to produce mutts for profit. There is no science behind mixing goldens with poodles and cocker spaniels. 

I love the cocker spaniel breed, fwiw.... my first exposure to dogs was with a cocker spaniel next door. We never purchased one though because we did not want a dog with rage syndrome or epilepsy. Or eye problems. Or coat problems. 

There is a lot of problems in that breed, and you have very good breeders out there who are trying to correct those problems. THOSE breeders are not going to sell their puppies to greeders who want to produce mutts for sale. 

The same thing is true with goldens. You are not going to get nice goldens falling into the hands of people who want to breed mutts for sale. If it happens, it only does through deceptive measures and practices by the people purchasing the puppies. 

So what you are getting with these little mutts is the product of what are likely less than healthy bloodlines. You are doubling the likelihood of having dogs with all of the health problems of the parent breeds.

Adopting dogs from shelters is a different thing than purchasing a mutt from a mutt breeder. And you can go with some rescues and find very nice mixed breeds who need homes - puppies even. 

Don't encourage the creeps out there to continue breeding dogs who have limited appeal and become shelter fodder when they don't work out. Don't buy mutts from breeders. Adopt.

ETA - I never saw the appeal of bulldogs until I began taking classes with people who breed, show, and apparently are big members of the local club. So lots of bull dogs in our classes. And these are great little dogs. Snorkly little beasts that they are.  

Dalmations - I spoke with somebody who has the highest ranking dalmation as far as obedience competition about the breeding with pointers. This was something that was done to correct an intestinal issue that was inherent in the breed. It was not intended to change the look or behavior or anything else about the breed. And from I understand, it took many years before the AKC recognized the product of the cross breedings. Meaning they had to make sure the products were breed standard dalmations for several generations. 

You cannot compare what those dalmation people did to correct a health issue with the breed.... with mixing two breeds with their own unique health problems, indiscriminately and generally by people who know nothing about the parent breeds and have never been involved with improving the golden retriever breed or cocker spaniel breed, nor have they show any desire to improve the breeds and maintain breed standard. It is all about creating another mixed breed to sell. And that is generally why it is unpopular and discouraged.


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## tippykayak

graepian0 said:


> There are people who would love to have a dog with the friendly personality, intelligence, and affection of a golden retriever in a smaller size. There appear to be a few breeders who are attempting to achieve this outcome. In 10-20 years the miniature golden may be established as a distinctive breed - which showcases these desired traits.


I think this is an interesting argument and one that could possibly have merit...if there were any evidence that this is what's happening in this particular breeding program. But if you look at the verbiage and the photos, there doesn't seem to be any coherence in terms of what the goal is in terms of an intended standard, and none of the dogs seem to be approaching anything like a smaller Golden.

And if what you wanted was the personality, intelligence, and affection of a GR, there are already smaller breeds with exactly that, so what does this hypothetical mini-GR program offer people aside from a gimmick?


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## solinvictus

"In 10-20 years the miniature golden may be established as a distinctive breed "

In order to make a breed they have to breed the mix to each other down the generations and have the dogs adhere to the same standard.

When they can consistently breed an F10 to an F10 and get consistency then they will be able to work toward claiming it is a separate breed.

So far in the doodle they have not been able to do that. Those that originally wanted to do it could not make it happen. They have been trying since the early 80's.


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## Brave

graepian0 said:


> Sometimes dogs in shelters have been damaged by prior abuse and are agressive and present risks to other dogs and people. You have to be highly skilled to rehabilitate such animals and I don't think anyone should be pressured to take on that kind of responsibility, while it is certainly noble.


That's not a fair statement. Just because a dog is in rescue doesn't mean they have "issues" and even if they DO have issues, the rescue isn't going to pressure ANYONE to take on more than they can handle. I have an 11 month old lab/whippet foster who was ONLY surrendered because her family's circumstances changed. She is perfect in so many ways. House trained. Crate trained. Intelligent. Great stamina. Etc, Etc. 

My first foster was a 6 yr old GR purebred who was surrendered because her "family moved" but it was most likely because she got too old to breed anymore. She came to me with issues. I had her for 2 months rehabbing her and we were upfront with EVERY potential adopter about what issues we knew about. We finally found a couple who were a good fit for her and she settled in immediately. They are currently living happily ever after. No one was pressured. 



graepian0 said:


> I understand this is a GR forum and love the breed. I think this should also be a place that welcomes owners of mixed puppies without dismissing their choice of canine family member. We should be courteous and respectful and open to others perspectives and experiences.



I have a mix, that I adopted when he was 9 weeks old. This forum has been more than welcoming, they have become friends and family to my Bear and I. They saw us through so many trials, tribulations, and triumphs. This forum is a godsend. And very welcoming, IMO. 



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## Tayla's Mom

Brave said:


> That's not a fair statement. Just because a dog is in rescue doesn't mean they have "issues" and even if they DO have issues, the rescue isn't going to pressure ANYONE to take on more than they can handle. I have an 11 month old lab/whippet foster who was ONLY surrendered because her family's circumstances changed. She is perfect in so many ways. House trained. Crate trained. Intelligent. Great stamina. Etc, Etc.
> 
> My first foster was a 6 yr old GR purebred who was surrendered because her "family moved" but it was most likely because she got too old to breed anymore. She came to me with issues. I had her for 2 months rehabbing her and we were upfront with EVERY potential adopter about what issues we knew about. We finally found a couple who were a good fit for her and she settled in immediately. They are currently living happily ever after. No one was pressured.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a mix, that I adopted when he was 9 weeks old. This forum has been more than welcoming, they have become friends and family to my Bear and I. They saw us through so many trials, tribulations, and triumphs. This forum is a godsend. And very welcoming, IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I have to agree that not all shelter/rescue dogs have horrible issues. I've always had shelter/rescue dogs. Jesse was our first GR mix and a delightful dog. She loved everyone. Cheyenne was our Aussie/BC mix and her biggest issue was shyness as we were her first home at 3 years of age. She overcame many shyness issues and was such a fun dog. Tayla was a rehome so I can't count her. She was a terrible puppy, but we got her at 4 months and many of her issues were with poor breeding practices. She is, at 2 years old, a driven working dog that I have fun with every day. Lily we adopted from GRRMF and she is probably the dog with the sweetest disposition that I have ever had.

Jen OMG Bear's a mix . I just thought he was a darker Golden.


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## Brads035

I do not want anyone to think that I do not agree with rescuing shelter dogs - I just do not like to see someone dismissed because of a generalized view that adoption or choosing pure-bred dogs is the morally superior choice. There is a lot of grey and a lot of pro/cons to consider in each scenario. I think it would be nice to give the benefit of doubt that a member of this forum made a conscious decision and is not promoting irresponsible breeding.

I purchased my Cody about a year ago from C&S Ranch which is trying to create a mini - golden retriever like breed. He is about the 5th generation of multi-gen pairings and has become a wonderful companion. I cannot speak for other breeders, but I do believe this program is legitimate. He is 42lbs and is remarkably goofy, sweet, and intelligent like his GR playmates at the dog park, beach and walking group. He is athletic, energetic, whip-smart and friendly with people, other dogs and children. I have relied on This forum for advice on puppy development and behavior and found the information invaluable. I expect but hope that I will not be derided for my choice and would love to share and compare stories of my experiences and life together.


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## Megora

Interesting.... he's cute at least.  

But I don't know if mutts are worth that much money. Especially some of the goldens and golden mixes they used in their breeding. You can get dogs who look like that for about $200-400. Very backyard bred.


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## ArchersMom

Cody is very cute but that doesn't mean that the breeding practices of making "mini goldens" is ethical. I understand the idea of a smaller sized golden appealing to some people. But why do you need a golden if it's just to be a companion? That is the perfect reason to adopt. You still don't know exactly what a goldens puppies personallty will be like but you can know if you adopt a dog 1 year or older. And if the breeder is breeding just to produce companions, what happens to the available homes for those shelter dogs? They die. There are of course other ways of getting a puppy, like Craigslist, but even they forbid the selling of dogs. I think any person would constitute making thousands of dollars per puppy as selling them.


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## Brads035

That was a puppy picture - here is what he looks like now - still a goof. He is awesome on hikes, follows me everywhere, understands hand signals, is great at agility, loves swimming, fetching in water (of course), and invents his own games - right now it's hide and seek mixed with fetch where he drops a ball at my feet and runs behind a tree, pokes his head out the side and darts out to chase the ball when I throw it. Also very cuddly - is great on public transportation. He has the traits I wanted in a dog - similar to a retriever/field spaniel but more trainable and lower key to be a family dog. 

We interact with several dogs everyday and I don't regret him at all. I know a lovely woman who rescued a mix that has aggression issue and terrorizes puppies and starts fights at the park. She is trying her best - but sometimes if you get a puppy and focus on socialization and training from an early age you will have a lifetime companion that does not have these issues. Again these are personal choices.


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## solinvictus

"I expect but hope that I will not be derided for my choice and would love to share and compare stories of my experiences and life together. "

Every single dog no matter his or her lineage is absolutely priceless and deserves a loving family and a happy, healthy life.

You may have found one of the very few that are trying to actually make a new breed. This is just my opinion but here on the forum we want to protect our breed from those that truly don't want to preserve it and continuely strive to better it. 

Here we see those that spend an enormous amount of money for a poodle/golden mix and the breeder making all kinds of crazy claims and people believing it. 

I personally welcome you and your sweet little guy Cody with a open heart and will enjoy hearing stories about your journey of love. 

But when mixes are promoted with many false claims there will be tons of posts refuting them. It isn't done to suggest that an individual dog isn't valuable but to help others make truly informed choices.

I think it is great that you have found a breeder that is now breeding at the F5 to F5 level and hopefully getting a consistent standard. This is great she/he is doing something that even those in Australia since 1980 haven't been able to do. 

Your dog is beautiful thanks for sharing the picture.


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## tippykayak

graepian0 said:


> I expect but hope that I will not be derided for my choice and would love to share and compare stories of my experiences and life together.


You and Cody are more than welcome, at least in my book, and I doubt anybody else would tell you otherwise. Criticism and comments about a particular program are not directed at your dog at all. He didn't make any of the breeding choices that we disagree with! He's just trying to be the best dog he can.

Really, I assure you that the criticism of the breeding practices is all about health and protecting the breed that everybody here loves. Once a dog is out and about in the world, most of us would not look down on him for not being a purebred, and there's no purpose in directing criticism at him.

Cody's super cute, and like I said earlier, there's a very good chance that he personally won't have any of the health and temperament problems we worry about with outcrossed dogs. From what we know about heritable problems and about the breeds involved, his risk factors are probably higher than they would be for a carefully bred Golden, so if he were my dog, I'd get his heart checked out by a cardiologist, do yearly eye exams by an ophthalmologist, and get his hips and elbows cleared at 2 years old. I'd also be religious about his weight and socialization and training.

But I do all that for my own Goldens, so while I'd say it was even more important when the dog comes from such broad outcrosses, it's already super-important stuff for any dog.


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## mylissyk

graepian0 said:


> That was a puppy picture - here is what he looks like now - still a goof. He is awesome on hikes, follows me everywhere, understands hand signals, is great at agility, loves swimming, fetching in water (of course), and invents his own games - right now it's hide and seek mixed with fetch where he drops a ball at my feet and runs behind a tree, pokes his head out the side and darts out to chase the ball when I throw it. Also very cuddly - is great on public transportation. He has the traits I wanted in a dog - similar to a retriever/field spaniel but more trainable and lower key to be a family dog.
> 
> We interact with several dogs everyday and I don't regret him at all. I know a lovely woman who rescued a mix that has aggression issue and terrorizes puppies and starts fights at the park. She is trying her best - but sometimes if you get a puppy and focus on socialization and training from an early age you will have a lifetime companion that does not have these issues. Again these are personal choices.


He's adorable!


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## Selli-Belle

graepian0 said:


> I do not want anyone to think that I do not agree with rescuing shelter dogs - I just do not like to see someone dismissed because of a generalized view that adoption or choosing pure-bred dogs is the morally superior choice. There is a lot of grey and a lot of pro/cons to consider in each scenario. I think it would be nice to give the benefit of doubt that a member of this forum made a conscious decision and is not promoting irresponsible breeding.
> 
> I purchased my Cody about a year ago from C&S Ranch which is trying to create a mini - golden retriever like breed. He is about the 5th generation of multi-gen pairings and has become a wonderful companion. I cannot speak for other breeders, but I do believe this program is legitimate. He is 42lbs and is remarkably goofy, sweet, and intelligent like his GR playmates at the dog park, beach and walking group. He is athletic, energetic, whip-smart and friendly with people, other dogs and children. I have relied on This forum for advice on puppy development and behavior and found the information invaluable. I expect but hope that I will not be derided for my choice and would love to share and compare stories of my experiences and life together.



Cody is adorable and the other dogs at C&S Ranch are very cute, but I would not agree that the breeder is doing thinks the right way. On her website I don't see ANY information about health clearances. The idea of "hybrid vigor" (the idea that a mixed breed dog will be healthier than a pure-bred dog) is ONLY valid if two things are true-the first is that the two breeds share NONE of the same health issues and the second is that the parent dogs share NONE of the same blood (i.e., they are truly separate breeds). When you get to multi-generational mixes where both parents are part Golden Retriever the puppies have the same risk for the diseases that plague Goldens as a pure-bred dog. Therefore, any contentious breeder would get the same clearances for their dogs as a reputable Golden breeder.


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## Shellbug

This thread has my mind wondering. How are miniatures made ?? How did they get a mini schnauzer or any other variety of mini dog? 


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## Brads035

Thanks for the advice tippykayak. I agree that he probably has a higher risk and I don't put full faith and credit into claims of hybrid vigor. So far he is healthy and no defects, but we have an medical exam scheduled for this weekend and I will definitely be getting his hips checked in the fall and reporting the results back to the breeder.


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## EddieWouldGo

I might get attacked for my opinion about this - I really have no problem with Comfort Retrievers. Eddie is 100% Golden Retriever but I'm also fully aware that Golden Retrievers, as they are they are today were 'made' that way by humans in the mid-19th century...? Here's a short history lesson for you...:

Golden Retriever - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 

I really don't see a problem with 'developing' a smaller version of these great dogs.


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## Megora

Just fyi - a better place to look for the history of the golden retriever would be the GRCA.org website. Only because Wikipedia is whatever somebody dumps in there and there may be incorrect information. 

Right on GRCA there is a statement about mixed breeds too...


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## CAROLINA MOM

Wikipedia listed the references used to provide that info, I wouldn't consider that as being dumped there myself. 

However, I do agree there are other sources available for information.


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## Megora

CAROLINA MOM said:


> Wikipedia listed the references used to provide that info, I wouldn't consider that as being dumped there myself.


I would not use Wikipedia for information because it is just random people putting pictures of their own dogs and repeating whatever information they've heard from various websites. 

Go to GRCA.org for the actual information on the breed presented by the breed club.


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## EddieWouldGo

Thanks, Megora and Carolina Mom.

My point was that our wonderful breed was 'developed' over time to make it what it is today, I see no harm in that.

I was simply looking for a quick reference to that effect.

Megora, yes, GRCA.org is awesome and even provide amazing photos of how the breed has transformed over time, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the information found on Wikipedia. I tend to think that because it's a forum (like this one  ) you get extensive information from many sources in one place. And as pointed out by Carolina Mom Wikipedia did list the references... as you can see GRCA is referenced throughout the page.


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## CAROLINA MOM

There are various sources for all kinds of Information on the Web, individuals have options and it is their choice to decide which option and information is best for them. 

Some people prefer the GRCA. org, it is a great organization and it's very informative. I've referenced their site many times to new members, especially their Puppy Referral. 

Unfortunately not everything you see/read on the Web is factual, individuals do need to be aware of that.


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## Megora

CAROLINA MOM said:


> Unfortunately not everything you see/read on the Web is factual...


 Primarily Wikipedia.

People interested in the golden retriever breed should go to GRCA.org.


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## CAROLINA MOM

Not just Wikipedia........ 

There are many many sites that are questionable.


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## SunshineValley

I like the idea of a smaller dog for in the house, however would it be a risk to their health, like toy dogs? Plus, the price! Whew.


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## DanaRuns

Well, I had successfully avoided this thread until today, and then my curiosity got the better of me. But I stopped reading when I saw this:









OMG, poor dog. 

I have a "miniature" Golden Retriever. She wasn't bred that way, she's just poorly bred, and 45 lbs. Some of you have seen her puppy picture, which I took after she had a particularly enthusiastic mud adventure in the house. 










I do love her petite size, though I know it's the result of horrible breeding practices.

Well, I'm going to try not to read any more of this thread. I find it so disheartening.


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## Daisy's dad

I can not grasp why people insist on treating mixed breed dogs like they are some sort of breed. I have nothing against mixed breeds. I've had a few but, they are just that... mixed breed. I never tried to breed my 50% Samoyed 25% lab 25% ausie and sell the pups as the next new designer thing. It's a supply fueled by demand. People keep paying money for this stuff so... Why on earth would someone pay $3500 for a dog that's 3/4 golden mixed with something else? Guess what? The local humane society is loaded with golden mixes. 12 years ago I got one (wife still insists he was pure golden. I don't see it). He left us a couple months ago at 13 1/2. I paid about $45 and saved a dog's life. Common sense is a whole lot more rare than the name implies.


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## olliversmom

DanaRuns said:


> Well, I had successfully avoided this thread until today, and then my curiosity got the better of me. But I stopped reading when I saw this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OMG, poor dog.
> 
> I have a "miniature" Golden Retriever. She wasn't bred that way, she's just poorly bred, and 45 lbs. Some of you have seen her puppy picture, which I took after she had a particularly enthusiastic mud adventure in the house.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do love her petite size, though I know it's the result of horrible breeding practices.
> 
> Well, I'm going to try not to read any more of this thread. I find it so disheartening.



Omg. That pic of your mud baby and her mud trail is priceless


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## Shellbug

DanaRuns said:


> Well, I had successfully avoided this thread until today, and then my curiosity got the better of me. But I stopped reading when I saw this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OMG, poor dog.
> 
> I have a "miniature" Golden Retriever. She wasn't bred that way, she's just poorly bred, and 45 lbs. Some of you have seen her puppy picture, which I took after she had a particularly enthusiastic mud adventure in the house.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do love her petite size, though I know it's the result of horrible breeding practices.
> 
> Well, I'm going to try not to read any more of this thread. I find it so disheartening.



This picture is priceless !!! 


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## Daisy's dad

I like the way she's looking at you like "Did I do good?"


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## Comfortluv21

I've had pure goldens all my life. Having 4 boys in the city I wanted a smaller dog with all the golden characteristics. I have a comfort retriever ( trademarked one). She is the best dog I ever had. Very healthy, sweet, and in training to be a service dog. Yes they are pricey but worth every penny. Full grown she weighs in at 45 pounds 17 inches tall.


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## Comfortluv21

maggiehnh said:


> We are on our third Comfort Retriever. The temperaments of these dogs are amazing. It couldn't be that we lucked out with one as all three are that way. Kathy breeds Comfort Retrievers and Golden Doodles and does a great deal of health testing. She is THE most upstanding breeder I have ever come across in my 67 years. Kathy screens the potential owners and runs a first-class kennel. Her goal is to be sure that each of her puppies go to a good home, AND if at any time during the dog's life, you cannot keep it, Kathy will take it back and find a good home for it. We wanted Golden Retrievers, but cannot handle more than 50/55 lbs. One of our new puppies will max out at 30 lbs. These dogs are complete sweethearts. We went the rescue and every other route during our married life and decided with these last three that we wanted exactly what we wanted, and Kathy had that. It is disturbing that some have choice words and names for this breeder, but her one goal is to place these dogs in good "forever homes." No one mentioned how many of these dogs become service dogs, or the fact that for every so many service dogs purchased, Kathy donates one. These dogs are trained for a variety of services with autism and diabetic assistants just two of them. Don't throw this lady under the bus. She loves her dogs and runs a first class operation.


I have a comfort retriever and am thrilled as well, she is a service dog for my autistic son, our Annie is 40 pounds and sweet.
Kathy runs a great breeding program


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## Pilgrim123

I am totally disheartened by the resurrection of this thread. I find the deliberate breeding of cross-bred dogs for profit offensive in the extreme. Yes, I do know you can get good dogs this way.The spoodle I adopted was a great girl - but I wouldn't have ever encouraged an owner more interested in making money than in a breed's welfare by paying such an extortionate amount for a puppy!


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## Piper_the_goldenpuppy

Pilgrim123 said:


> I am totally disheartened by the resurrection of this thread. I find the deliberate breeding of cross-bred dogs for profit offensive in the extreme. Yes, I do know you can get good dogs this way.The spoodle I adopted was a great girl - but I wouldn't have ever encouraged an owner more interested in making money than in a breed's welfare by paying such an extortionate amount for a puppy!


This is so sad. I can't believe people will pay almost 5000 for these dogs. They look so awkward, with their super tiny thin legs. It makes me wonder how they have achieved their desired "look" so rapidly....How can they even speak about longevity. They will clearly sell to anyone, and ship anywhere. Sure you can get good dogs this way. They aren't Golden Retrievers though. Also, 45 lbs is not that much smaller than a 60lb golden IMO. Its all marketing. Right now it looks like they are making a super big push to get Comfort Retrievers as service dogs. Argh. Whats next, the "ultra rare, english cream comfort retriever for 10,000?" 

If you want a cross breed, get a cross breed. You don't have to get it from a place like that and pay that price.


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## Sweet Girl

I always find it so bizarre when threads like this - or about an unethical Golden Retriever breeder - suddenly get resurrected years later with a brand new member singing their praises. Always a brand new member who never returns to the forum again...


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## Prism Goldens

Comfortluv21 said:


> I have a comfort retriever and am thrilled as well, she is a service dog for my autistic son, our Annie is 40 pounds and sweet.
> Kathy runs a great breeding program



Say what you will, Kathy does not run a great breeding program. She breeds mutts, and uses less than stellar examples of the breeds she mixes, to make her mutts. She doesn't do proper clearances for both breeds she makes mutts from and she takes advantage of you folks who are inclined to pay a lot for a mixed breed someone gave a name to. 
I'm glad you both like your dogs, but you could have gotten the same end result at the Nicholasville (if that's where she still lives) KY pound.


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## G-bear

I am glad you are happy with your dogs but I have to ask why you would spend over $4,000 on a mutt when there are so very many 40 lb dogs in shelters who are in desperate need of homes. Don't get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with mutts. I have one. She's a rescue and is a wonderful dog. But to pay $4,000 for a mutt? That is just crazy. For $4,000 you can rescue an awful lot of dogs. Why spend that kind of money on a dog which has no clearances, is NOT more intelligent than any other dog and is NOT less prone to illness? Claims such as that made by the breeder are unproven and constitute false advertising. Sounds to me like you drank the "breeders" Kool-aid...


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## Sweet Girl

G-bear said:


> I am glad you are happy with your dogs but I have to ask why you would spend over $4,000 on a mutt when there are so very many 40 lb dogs in shelters who are in desperate need of homes. Don't get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with mutts. I have one. She's a rescue and is a wonderful dog. But to pay $4,000 for a mutt? That is just crazy. For $4,000 you can rescue an awful lot of dogs. Why spend that kind of money on a dog which has no clearances, is NOT more intelligent than any other dog and is NOT less prone to illness? Claims such as that made by the breeder are unproven and constitute false advertising. Sounds to me like you drank the "breeders" Kool-aid...


Interestingly enough, I met a dog yesterday that was Golden Retriever, Lab, and Poodle. Not a $4000 mix, but a regular old mix, adopted from a shelter. She looked like a very small and very fine-boned Golden. She was 35 pounds and more reddish brown than reddish gold. But goes to show - you sure don't have to pay $4000 for one of these!


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## Brads035

Jumping in to say that I purchased a 'miniature golden retriever' (essentially golden retriever/cocker spaniel mix) from a breeder out in Montana four years ago as an 8 week old puppy, and he has grown into a happy, healthy, cuddly, and loyal companion. He is 40lbs, reddish gold, and easily mistaken for a 4 month GR puppy. We live in an apartment with a ten minute walk to a large off-leash park and several hiking trails in the city and beaches that have off-leash areas. He is completely trustworthy off-leash, follows me everywhere, and loves to come stand up paddle boarding or fetch balls catching them midair. 

I understand that this is a GR forum and I am guessing that the prejudice against new and mixed breeds is out of love for maintaining the GR breed. However, the dog genome is very plastic and it is easy for breeders to select for the traits they want and create a new breed in a few generations - this is how the majority of dog breeds were designed by hobby breeders in the 1800's. To say that your only choice is a purebred - who may suffer from certain genetic diseases as a result of inbreeding and the selection of SINE elements and tandem repeats which simultaneously account for the different breed characteristics (and introduction of diseases/mutations - Ex. Dalmatian spots and Deafness are expressed by the same gene) or a rescue dog that was most likely irresponsibly bred by a puppy farm who ended up in a shelter, is, I think, ignorant.

You can, as I have done, and I think others are trying to do, work with breeders who are in the course of developing new breeds that meet our current desires in a dog companion. We don't need to stay loyal to what was created in the 1800s. Because of the dog's inherent genetic plasticity, breeders can responsibly create new breeds, or introduce diversity into the gene pool for pure-bred dogs.

My dog, Cody, was the 7th generation in a 'miniature golden retriever' breeding program. He is everything that I have wanted in a companion. Smaller, but hardy and athletic enough to go on outdoor trips such as hiking and canoeing, loyal, smart, highly trainable, cuddly, and happy-go-lucky disposition. If he passes away in the next 10-12 years I will most likely contact his breeder for my next companion, and be excited to see how the breed has progressed after several more generations.

I do love golden retrievers and think they are one of the most beautiful dogs in existence. However, for my lifestyle, Cody is the best companion.


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## G-bear

Sweet Girl said:


> I always find it so bizarre when threads like this - or about an unethical Golden Retriever breeder - suddenly get resurrected years later with a brand new member singing their praises. Always a brand new member who never returns to the forum again...


And here we go again....


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## Brads035

Here is Cody (right) with his GR friend Sunshine.


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## Brads035

And for the record...I've been a member of this forum for 4 years.


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## Figtoria

Brads035 said:


> J
> I understand that this is a GR forum and I am guessing that the prejudice against new and mixed breeds is out of love for maintaining the GR breed.



It's not prejudice against new or mixed breeds. 

It's prejudice against people throwing 2 or 3 breeds together and charging ridiculously large bucks for them like they've created something unique.

And it's obviously purely for profit.

It's offensive to people who spend years studying bloodlines and genetics and doing health checks to produce a great example of their breed consistently.

Doing it right isn't easy. Slapping two breeds together that produce something that looks like a smaller Golden isn't doing it right. It's just luck.


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## ArchersMom

Brads035 said:


> And for the record...I've been a member of this forum for 4 years.


Your join date is this month, with this being the only thread you've ever posted on. 

Nobody here has any prejudice against mixed breed dogs. The only prejudice here is for ignorant people and greeders who tout their mixes as better than Goldens and/or charge an arm and a leg for a backyard bred dog. The truth is, mixing dogs does not just produce a new breed. It does not produce a dog that's healthier or free from genetic diseases. Show me any mix breeder and I'll show you a byb at best. They don't care about health or what's best for the dogs, they only care about lining their pocket book.


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## Brads035

I created a new profile after learning that our accounts on this forum had a security breach. I am also Graepian0, and have posted many times with advice on nutrition, training, sports, behavior issues, new puppy...etc... and within this very thread. I received an email notification and wanted to jump in to defend people who are happily posting about their pup and then are bombarded by negative comments.


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## 987A

.


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## Prism Goldens

Brads035 said:


> Jumping in to say that I purchased a 'miniature golden retriever' (essentially golden retriever/cocker spaniel mix) from a breeder out in Montana four years ago as an 8 week old puppy, and he has grown into a happy, healthy, cuddly, and loyal companion. He is 40lbs, reddish gold, and easily mistaken for a 4 month GR puppy. We live in an apartment with a ten minute walk to a large off-leash park and several hiking trails in the city and beaches that have off-leash areas. He is completely trustworthy off-leash, follows me everywhere, and loves to come stand up paddle boarding or fetch balls catching them midair.
> 
> I understand that this is a GR forum and I am guessing that the prejudice against new and mixed breeds is out of love for maintaining the GR breed. However, the dog genome is very plastic and it is easy for breeders to select for the traits they want and create a new breed in a few generations - this is how the majority of dog breeds were designed by hobby breeders in the 1800's. To say that your only choice is a purebred - who may suffer from certain genetic diseases as a result of inbreeding and the selection of SINE elements and tandem repeats which simultaneously account for the different breed characteristics (and introduction of diseases/mutations - Ex. Dalmatian spots and Deafness are expressed by the same gene) or a rescue dog that was most likely irresponsibly bred by a puppy farm who ended up in a shelter, is, I think, ignorant.
> 
> You can, as I have done, and I think others are trying to do, work with breeders who are in the course of developing new breeds that meet our current desires in a dog companion. We don't need to stay loyal to what was created in the 1800s. Because of the dog's inherent genetic plasticity, breeders can responsibly create new breeds, or introduce diversity into the gene pool for pure-bred dogs.
> 
> My dog, Cody, was the 7th generation in a 'miniature golden retriever' breeding program. He is everything that I have wanted in a companion. Smaller, but hardy and athletic enough to go on outdoor trips such as hiking and canoeing, loyal, smart, highly trainable, cuddly, and happy-go-lucky disposition. If he passes away in the next 10-12 years I will most likely contact his breeder for my next companion, and be excited to see how the breed has progressed after several more generations.
> 
> I do love golden retrievers and think they are one of the most beautiful dogs in existence. However, for my lifestyle, Cody is the best companion.


There is so much inaccuracy in this post that it is in its entirety laughable except that someone actually believes the Kathys of the world who are mixing poor examples are actually creating new breeds... 
No one doing this is responsible. If you want to change my mind, post sire and dam reg name, along w a copy of whatever you got naming those two as parents, to prove you aren't just picking random Goldens and Cockers or whatever from OFA- and let us see full breed appropriate clearances there on them. I'm betting that isn't happening, therefore, no one involved is responsibly breeding.


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