# Barkin?!?!?! :help!:



## Angela Mina (Feb 25, 2007)

Goldy (neutered male) just turned 3 years old. He is not an excessive barker at all, but there are 3 situations he will bark.

1. If somebody knocks at the door/rings the doorbell.
2. If he sees somebody outside of our yard. Our 4 ft fence backs up against the park. He only goes out to potty and play - and is never left out there alone.
3. In the middle of the night if there is any noise at all. Usually it is the cat jumping on or off of something. Goldy sleeps in our bedroom with the door closed and we have an air purifier that we keep turned on, for the noise to try to drown out other noises.

#3 is the worst, because we usually don't hear the noise that made him bark, but when he barks, my husband and I wake up with our adrenaline going, and have a hard time going back to sleep

#1 is similar. If we are just relaxing watching tv and he does it (and it is LOUD), it shocks/scares us, and the adenaline is up.

#2 is not so bad. We realize he is just trying to protect us, and he stops as soon as we ask. 

The question is how do we stop the behavior? He usually only does it a few times. We have tried the squirt bottle. It does not help at all. We have tried to desinsitize him to the doorbell/knock. If we know it is coming, and tell him "shh", he will not bark. 

He is a very sensitive dog, so I am afraid to try a "bark collar"

Any suggestions???


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## NancyLu (Jul 28, 2006)

In obedience class we were taught to say 'quiet' and if they continure to skirt lime juice in their mouth. I found that sometimes that was difficult to get into the mouth. Summer hates it. We were then shown Binaca breath spray in a tube. That works really well because it's easy to hide and it's a quick spray with the benefit that it stops her from barking and makes breath smell really nice!


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## Carsonsdaddy (Nov 1, 2006)

Personally I think that sounds good. If he's only barking a few times and then stops, or stops when you tell him to, that's a good thing, IMO. We are working on that with Carson and I would love it if he only barked a few times, and then stopped.


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## Wilson's REAL Mom (Nov 10, 2006)

I agree with Jeremy. He's barking at appropriate times and only a few barks. He is a dog, after all. It doesn't sound like a problem.


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## jeffreyzone (Feb 8, 2006)

This is a tough one, because there are times that you'd probably like for Goldy to bark. If this is the case, you may want to hold off on desensitizing him from all barking.

I agree with Carsonsdaddy; it sounds like you are making progress. I'd work on teaching him a "Quiet" command. When Goldy starts barking at the doorbell, get his attention and tell him "Quiet!" Have a reward ready for him when he gets it right. Don't go to the door or even budge until he stops the barking. Maybe you can enlist a neighbor to help out by ringing the doorbell for you.

At our house, I want my two to really go nuts if a solicitor comes to the door...or even approaches the door. But I don't want them to bark at everything that moves. Over the years, we have tuned-in wih them, and they'll pretty much go nuts when I want them to and be totally silent when I want them to. But it's taken a lot of time, patience, and rewards.

Hang in there. Goldy is doing what comes natural for him, and over time, you can shape his behavior to better suit your expectations and needs.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Is the problem that Goldy is continuously barking (can't shut him up)? or is it just that he even barks at all?

If it's just a couple barks because he is startled, I don't know how much of that can be trained out of a dog, good luck there... my guess is he will eventually quit as he gets habituated to the noise (desensitized) to where it just seems like too much trouble to 'sound the alarm' anymore. Sidney became that way with the mailman's daily 'visits'.

If the problem is continuous barking... I will defer to the 'experts' who say... you must first get your dog to realize he is barking. Barking and whining etc. is often so natural to a dog, he doesn't even realize he is doing it... its like us breathing, unless someone calls it to our attention we don't even realize we are doing it. So to call your dog's attention to his barking you must first teach him to bark on command. Since barking at the right time can now bring on a 'goodie' the dog is aware of this action... now you can teach "quiet" or "shut-up" which means to stop the action of "barking".

I've personally never have had the problem and so have not had to use this method of training a 'hush' command but some 'experts' recommend this method and its always made sense to me... sounds logical anyway.


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## Carsonsdaddy (Nov 1, 2006)

I've also heard that Monomer. The best way to teach a dog not to bark, is to teach it TO bark....sounds backwards but if you think about it....it makes sense.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Personally, I'd like for Samson to bark more....

Samson barks at all the same things, though. But for the most part, he's not a barker. Cosmo is MUCH more vocal. When we walk in the front door, Samson is at our feet, looking for attention. Cosmo is behind him, barking like crazy. But I think part of that is he is waiting for Samson to finish getting his attention, then he can have some....


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## Angela Mina (Feb 25, 2007)

monomer said:


> Is the problem that Goldy is continuously barking (can't shut him up)? or is it just that he even barks at all?
> 
> If it's just a couple barks because he is startled, I don't know how much of that can be trained out of a dog, good luck there... my guess is he will eventually quit as he gets habituated to the noise (desensitized) to where it just seems like too much trouble to 'sound the alarm' anymore. Sidney became that way with the mailman's daily 'visits'.


He doesn't continuously bark at all. It is just the initial bark. I do understand that it is natural for them to bark. But when you get awaken in the middle of the night several times with such an adrenaline rush, it gets really tiring. I guess we could try putting him in a different area of the house.

Another thing is that I work from home, and am on the phone throughout the day. It is kind of embarrasing whem you have this "Arooorooorooh" in the background.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Angela Mina said:


> ...Another thing is that I work from home, and am on the phone throughout the day. It is kind of embarrasing whem you have this "Arooorooorooh" in the background.


That's funny!

Let me ask you... does that sound come at the end of a bark? Sidney does this too... its a sign of a dog who is spooked. It always makes us laugh though. You could just say its your neighbor's dog or tell them you had the TV turned up.


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

If he's stopping when you ask him too and/or just after a couple of barks I kinda think he's just doing what he should. Maybe have an open door crate for him to sleep in with you in the bedroom and maybe he won't be quite so on "alert" during the night.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

sharlin said:


> If he's stopping when you ask him too and/or just after a couple of barks I kinda think he's just doing what he should. Maybe have an open door crate for him to sleep in with you in the bedroom and maybe he won't be quite so on "alert" during the night.


I agree...that sounds like a great idea!


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## Angela Mina (Feb 25, 2007)

monomer said:


> That's funny!
> 
> Let me ask you... does that sound come at the end of a bark? Sidney does this too... its a sign of a dog who is spooked. It always makes us laugh though. You could just say its your neighbor's dog or tell them you had the TV turned up.


Yes, it does come at the end, and it is because he is spooked. He is usually totally relaxed and the the doorbell rings, or he is sleeping and the cat makes noise at night.

Unfortunately, if I am on the phone durig the day, I am covering for a law firm when the secretary isn't there or goes on break/lunch. So, I am supposed to be in an office building = no next door neighbors or televisions on.


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## Angela Mina (Feb 25, 2007)

sharlin said:


> If he's stopping when you ask him too and/or just after a couple of barks I kinda think he's just doing what he should. Maybe have an open door crate for him to sleep in with you in the bedroom and maybe he won't be quite so on "alert" during the night.



We have a table in the bedroom and he sleeps under there.

Maybe we just need to get earplugs - for him and us!


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Angela Mina said:


> ...I am covering for a law firm when the secretary isn't there or goes on break/lunch. So, I am supposed to be in an office building = no next door neighbors or televisions on.


Okay, so make the story something about one of the lawyers in the office is handling a dog biting law suit case and the clients just brought in the dog... 

I think you'll just have to work on building up Goldy's confidence and as he gets older I'm sure he'll ease up some. Our Sidney hardly does the scaredy barking thing much anymore... but in our case we've always just laughed at him... maybe we just shamed him out of doing it... Sorry I got no real solutions for Goldy's type of barking other than to tell you its really quite normal.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Actually, putting barking on cue and then thinking you'll solve the problem by just never giving the cue is really hard b/c barking is so self-rewarding. Dogs absolutely know when they're barking. I don't believe for a second that they aren't aware of the behavior. There are too many types of barking to have dogs be unware of it: Attention seeking barking (Look at me! Pet me! Feed me! Throw that ball!), fear barking (Back up or I'll have to bite you!), territorial barking (Get off my property!). 

The only time I'd argue that maybe they aren't as aware is with excessive, excessive barking. It can create what they call a bit of a barker's high and at that point, the dog is so adreanalized, he may not be as mentally aware of his actions.

I'd be careful of a fence with a visual (chain link) near where people pass all the time. That's a great way to create a huge territorial problem that can bleed into other areas. People walk past, your dog barks, they keep going (as was their original plan) and the dog thinks that the barking made them keep going. I've seen that escalate to aggressive barking at people when on walks, etc. Not with all dogs, but some, so it can happen.

If it were me, I'd probably use a Citronella Spray collar. The timing is perfect and the dog will get the little spray right when he barks. Might take a bit longer to work on the evening startle barking. How much exposure to different sounds has he had? We live in an apartment on a heavily travelled road, so my dogs as puppies learn to habituate to all sorts of noises and only startle bark if something really out of the ordinary presents itself. 

-Stephanie


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## Angela Mina (Feb 25, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> I'd be careful of a fence with a visual (chain link) near where people pass all the time. That's a great way to create a huge territorial problem that can bleed into other areas. People walk past, your dog barks, they keep going (as was their original plan) and the dog thinks that the barking made them keep going. I've seen that escalate to aggressive barking at people when on walks, etc. Not with all dogs, but some, so it can happen.
> 
> If it were me, I'd probably use a Citronella Spray collar. The timing is perfect and the dog will get the little spray right when he barks. Might take a bit longer to work on the evening startle barking. How much exposure to different sounds has he had? We live in an apartment on a heavily travelled road, so my dogs as puppies learn to habituate to all sorts of noises and only startle bark if something really out of the ordinary presents itself.
> 
> -Stephanie


Our back yard backs up to the park, and there is only a 4 foot fence (we can't change it, because it is the association's common property). Fortunately, he barks when they come into the park (so they are coming towards him, but not to him). So, He doesn't think he is scaring them away.

He goes lots of places with us, and load noises don't affect him too much. Recently, when we went to California to pick up our new puppy, we were on the road for 20 hours (each way), and we were at truck stops with lots of loud noise, and it doesn't phase him a bit. Even on walks, when he hears other dogs barking, he doesn't react.

I have thought about using a Citronella collar, but am still undecided. Has anybody else used one?

I know I am lucky with Goldy - he is such a good boy. Even the barking is "bad" - just a bit annoying in the middle of the night.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

<<Fortunately, he barks when they come into the park (so they are coming towards him, but not to him). So, He doesn't think he is scaring them away.>>

He may well still think he's scaring them away. He doesn't know that they aren't planning on coming to him. He only sees them coming toward them, he barks and then they change direction. I know they aren't technically changing direction, they're just doing what they always intended to do - which is come to the park, but again, your dog doesn't have any way to know that. So long as he isn't being territorial when out on a leash, etc. it's probably fine.

I use the C-collars all the time, both on my own dogs for different circumstances and client dogs. I really like them. Get the Premier one. I think it's called the Gentle Spray collar. He'll very quickly get to the point where it doesn't even need to be turned on. Just wearing it has the same effect. I think MuttMart Dog Supplies: Bones, Toys, Treats & Training Goods- Everything For Your Dog For Less has the best price I've seen. THey retail in stores for $100-ish. Muttmart has them for around $50. Premier also gaurentees them for life no matter where you bought it from. If it ever stops working for any reason other than say, your dog ate it, they'll replace it.

-Stephanie


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Oh - and if you want to lessen the chance that he gets collar smart, meaning he won't bark when it's on him, but will when it's off, when you first get it, have him wear it for like two weeks, but keep it turned off. It won't go off when he barks. Then turn it on and hopefully he won't be so quick to realize the collar is what now makes barking unpleasant. That can make it easier to wean off the collar eventually. Otherwise, he just wears it all the time like a prop if he comes to learn it's only not "safe" to bark when it's on.

-S


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

Steph has given you some great advice. 

The only thing I have to add is you don't want to train him out of warning you of real danger--sometimes our reactions actually encourage behaviors we don't want. 

I have done the dog barking at 2am thing and it is very annoying--mine sleep with me--so I just typically motion them back to bed. 

Hang in there


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Actually, putting barking on cue and then thinking you'll solve the problem by just never giving the cue is really hard b/c barking is so self-rewarding...


I don't think you quite got the idea... You must have a barking dog who realizes he is barking before you can hope to teach him to stop the barking. You are actually teaching a literal command like say "Hush!", where the dog comes to understand it as meaning "Don't bark"... How do you get the dog to understand "Don't bark" if he isn't barking at the time? or when he actually is barking if he isn't even conscious that it is that sound he is making that you wish to cease and not the way he is standing or some internal feeling he has or what he is looking at or the direction he is currently facing or etc. etc. etc. that this "Hush!" command means to not do? I think the concept is to get him barking on command first and using this 'bark' command as the basis to then teach him another command... one to stop the barking.



FlyingQuizini said:


> ...Dogs absolutely know when they're barking. I don't believe for a second that they aren't aware of the behavior...


I'm not so sure... a friend of mine had a Dalmatian that would whine incessantly when he got excited about going somewhere in the car... the whole trip was punctuated with constant whining from the dog. My friend's only solution was to yell at him to stop it, but it never really worked and this went on for years... both my friend and later I became convinced that this dog wasn't even aware he was constantly whining. Its one of those things where if you actually experience it first hand, only then do you begin to understand it for what it is.

Let's try a little scenario to use as an example here...
You know how a lot of Goldens make sounds when they greet someone familiar who they REALLY like? I believe all Goldens do this 'happy' noise making. Well I think it is all part of the whole 'happiness' expression/ritual... in other words, its a packaged deal, the furiously wagging butt and tail, the circling, the head down, the presentation of a toy, the whining sounds... to the dog this is just a complete expression for happiness... in their minds its a single experience, its a 'happy dance' pure and simple. They don't recognize each separate individual behavior component in it. We humans on the other hand can immediately identify and acknowledge each separate action in the display and easily dissect the "whole complete expression" into its individual components... its a very human type of mindset. Now if we tried to stop just the whining part without removing any of the rest of the 'happiness' display, it would be almost impossible. Why? because the dog isn't actually aware he is whining... to him he is just happy and all that that entails. You must actually make him aware he is whining before you can hope to teach him to remove that one action and nothing else. If you can make him whine on command, then by commanding him to whine you now have a basis to teach a 'stop whining' command. Well the same thing with barking... the dog only knows a 'whole reaction/ritual' and is not necessarily consciously aware of all the individual component acts that make up what he is doing. It might sound a bit convoluted to you at first but if you read carefully through ALL I've written so far I think you may begin to 'get' what it is I'm talking about... or maybe not.


FlyingQuizini said:


> ...I'd be careful of a fence with a visual (chain link) near where people pass all the time. That's a great way to create a huge territorial problem that can bleed into other areas. People walk past, your dog barks, they keep going (as was their original plan) and the dog thinks that the barking made them keep going. I've seen that escalate to aggressive barking at people when on walks, etc.
> ...He may well still think he's scaring them away...


This is the 'standard' reasoning I've seen written in almost all the dog behavior books I've ever read and it sounds like a good explanation except that it doesn't often jibe with what I've actually observed over the years... so slowly over time I've come to have a different version of what I think is going on... I think its more simply frustration on the dog's part leading to eventual aggressive displays.

A dog is a social creature by nature (genetics) and so has a tremendous curiosity about other living things in his environment (especially humans and other dogs) and thus often has a strong and urgent need to 'check things out' for himself... to satisfy his curiosity of what these strange creatures are and if they are safe/friendly. He wants desperately to freely interact with these other creatures he can see to satisfy his burning curiosity but is prevented from doing so... to be soooo close and yet soooo far can be quite maddening. Haven't you ever experienced yourself in a similar frustrating circumstance? Drives you nutz don't it? It does me! Over a period of time this constant frustration can lead to violent or aggressive behavioral displays (I believe it is a form of mental torture)... just think about human prisoners, especially the long-term ones, many sort of act like mad dogs... I don't think this is mere coincidence.


FlyingQuizini said:


> ...it were me, I'd probably use a Citronella Spray collar. The timing is perfect and the dog will get the little spray right when he barks. Might take a bit longer to work on the evening startle barking...


I've seen a lot of people try the citronella spray collars down at the dog park. Barking is frowned upon because of complaints by park neighbors, so many patrons with 'barkers' have resorted to different methods to quell the barking. From what I've observed the citronella collars only partially work for a large number of these dogs and don't really work at all for a few of them... and I will leave it at that for now. It's certainly something to try but by no means is it a guaranteed solution for every case.


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## cutejgirl (Mar 16, 2007)

*Question - Barking*

Hi,
I never had a dog, and want to have one. I was wondering if the golden barks alot or not. I live in an appartement soo... Were not aloud to too much noise...
Whats your opinion?
Thx in avanced!
Jess


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## mainegirl (May 2, 2005)

It really depends on the dog. My angel barks and whines and cries when she is in the crate, or at 2 in the morning when she needs to go out or is thirsty (God bless her little heart....... but can i nap all day like her? i think not!!!) Moose barks at different things, like the black trash bag that wasn't there yesterday, or someone who walks past the window. So it depends on the dog, imho

beth, moose, angel
and sandy, whiskers and misty at the bridge


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