# Dog Owners that Expect Results w/o Training



## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

This is one of my biggest annoyances. People who put no effort or time into their dog whatsoever and then blame the dog for being "dumb". Then the same people look at a well-behaved dog and think (and usually tell the owner) how "lucky" they were that they got such a nice dog. It's not the luck of the draw, people!! It's training!

There's a family that I know that owns an acreage and they bought a BYB labrador puppy last spring. They had the perfect set-up for teaching this puppy acreage life - at least two people are home all the time and their grandparents live next door (with a rescue rottie I helped train - amazing dog). Instead of taking puppy to classes or reading up on any info whatsoever, they leashed the puppy from the time it was 8 weeks old to the time he was 9 months. He was NEVER off leash...they just dragged him around the whole time. Didn't try to teach him to follow them or anything. Just pulled and yanked that poor puppy. Then, when puppy was 9 months old, they took the leash off. They somehow thought that NOW the puppy would follow them and never leave the (unfenced) boundaries. Guess what? Puppy roams and leaves, doesn't know his name, chases the horses, scratches visitors cars...did I mention puppy also gets no exercise? No walks, nothing. They finally found their dog 2 miles away from the property sitting on a busy highway. So now the puppy is chained up all day while the family goes around and does their chores....ALL DAY. When he is off leash now, he runs away from the people. This poor dog is so desperate for his family's attention, he barks non-stop on his chain. Then they yell at him (using his name) to try to get him to stop. He's chewed through the rope they have him tied up on, now they use a chain, and he's pulled up the hook from the ground so many times they chain him to a tree.

The grandmother finally called me and asked me to help. The dog is now so wound up at night after being on a chain all day while watching his family go about doing their chores and work, he is destroying their house whenever he's inside. So now he's relegated to the laundry room where he barks non-stop all night. Family is thinking about taking him into the pound because they can't deal with him. 

I went over there and showed them basic things, like how to umbilical cord him to them while they work and how he needs walks every day...I met with complete resistance. He DOESN'T need walks - he has a whole acreage to run around. No, he doesn't...he's chained up! Plus, that's not the right kind of exercise. Anyway, I finally told them I'd take him for a day and do everything I recommend they do and they can see the difference for themselves. Especially since what they were doing (nothing) wasn't working.

So I umbilicalled the dog to me and set about doing the same chores they would do. The first 10 minutes was brutal - jumping at me and mouthing and being a typical over-exuberant, under-utilized lab puppy. I kept at it and he finally stayed still and learned to get out my way while mucking out stalls. An hour of umbilicalled to me and already he was quieter. We went for a walk around the property to inspect the fences and after 20 minutes, he stopped pulling the leash. I went to teach two lessons and kept him in the ring with me for the next 3 hours where all he did was lay down when I was standing and followed me when I moved. Spent thirty minutes teaching him basics like sit, stay, down and his name. He picked it up so fast!

By the end of the day, we walked back to the house and he was exhausted. I could have brought him back at noon and he would have been as tired. His family had been watching me with him all day and said they couldn't believe it. Later I found out that he'd been allowed in the family room with them that night and he'd slept all evening and been calm.

Unfortunately, they've gone back to doing nothing with him. I went out there the other day to see the grandmother (my former employer) and the poor dog was back to being chained up and barking his head while the family did their daily routine without him. Apparently it was "too much work" having him next to one of them all day. I asked the grandma to let me know if they're taking him to the pound and I'd take him to a rescue or foster him or something. He's too nice a dog to be taken and risk being put down. Why do people bother getting high-energy dogs if they're not going to do anything with them?? 

This family also told me I was "lucky" Ranger was so calm...I pointed out that their dog had been JUST as calm that day I'd worked with him and that Ranger gets work done with him almost every day. Work and exercise is the "magic potion" for a calm dog. They just looked at me blankly and walked away.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Oh, this is one of my pet peeves. (This, and people who don't bother to clean up after their dogs!)

People around here are always so amazed when they see my dogs walking nicely on-leash. They're being dragged all over the place by their dogs and always make some sort of comment like, "Wow, he walks so nice for you! I wish mine would do that." Some days, it takes a lot of restraint not to say, "It's called 'training.'" It's as if these people think that my dogs were just born walking nicely on a leash and can't figure out why theirs won't do it. 
(Okay, Riley pretty much _was_ automatic. He didn't take much work at all. But Gunner... training, traing and more training. Set backs - more training, etc. LOL.) 

And there's one woman here in our complex that just drives me batty. The neighborhood PITA. (Riley's "stalker.") She thinks her dog, a hyper little Sheltie mix, is the best-behaved dog in the world. She jumps all over people, whining and licking you to death. I don't mind it, but don't let her do that while you're telling me how well-behaved she is. She let this dog jump on Gunner and was completely puzzled when Gunner corrected her. She tells me, "She's just so friendly - she wants to hug everybody." No lady, your dog doesn't want to "hug" everybody, she just lacks training and has no concept of doggie etiquette. :doh:


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

oh you are onto one of my pet peeves, too.....
People who look at my dogs and tell me I'm so lucky they're well behaved! LUCKY they don't pull on the leash when we walk! LUCKY they listen so well!
Right. They were born that way....


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

My all time favorite is the people who watch the dog whisperer, don't get the concepts AT ALL, but keep making a 'sssss' noise at their dogs, who simply ignore their owners who must be constantly leaking air.:doh:

Or the family, I gave them some private lessons. Told them first of all to feed one meal a day, at bedtime, and the rest of the time no food/treats unless he earns them (totally fat, non food motivated dog). And, to not walk him down the street while he drags them and gags and coughs, but to either turn the other direction, give him a pop or stand still till he stops pulling on them. That it will take a bit but doing those two things to start will get the dog starting to listen and work and not pull on leash (their biggest complaint, he's a goon on leash). Not even 2 hours after the lesson, walking down the street and here's the dog, dragging the owner down the street, gagging and doing the lean away. Just smiled and said the lessons must be working already....

And, used to train with a gal who would 'practice' stays while we set up things. Only thing was, every single time she left the dogs, as soon as she was ten feet away, they'd both take off and start racing around, peeing on the jumps, getting into training bags, making all the other dogs get worked up. EVERY TIME. And, they ignored her and didn't come when called but played keepaway, every time. Finally suggested that she tie them up and then practice stays, so at least if the broke they didn't go far and she could correct them. Guess she never thought of that one. Annoying since even the experienced people who could have had their dogs 'stay' while setting up left them in their crates till things were ready to go.

Lana


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

LifeOfRiley said:


> She let this dog jump on Gunner and was completely puzzled when Gunner corrected her. She tells me, "She's just so friendly - she wants to hug everybody." No lady, your dog doesn't want to "hug" everybody, she just lacks training and has no concept of doggie etiquette. :doh:


Print out the 'he just wants to say hi' article and put it in her mailbox. :

Lana


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## jwemt81 (Aug 20, 2008)

We have very similar neighbors, and I've vented about them many times! They're an older couple who are near retirement and they have two Scottish Terriers named Gretchen and Sarah (they just got Sarah a few months ago and they got Gretchen a year ago) that are probably the most annoying dogs I've ever known. They have a fenced in yard and a doggie door, so the dogs are almost ALWAYS outside and they bark at EVERYTHING. They bark at us, our dogs, and even our indoor cats when they are sitting in the window facing their yard. Their back yard is connected to ours and is only about 15 feet away from our bedroom window and my home office window, so we hear these dogs barking all day and night. Occasionally, one of them will stick their head out the door and say "Girls! Stop!" and go right back in. Of course, they keep barking anyway because they have had absolutely zero training. We have never once seen them take these dogs for a walk. They just let them roam around the backyard and bark all day, even when they're not home. The neighbors get up several hours earlier than DH and I do in the morning and we often get woken up by the barking, plus it drives me insane when I'm trying to focus on work. Then, when they want the dogs to finally come inside, they stand on their back deck calling and calling for them, but they don't come. They just continue to run all around the backyard until they finally go out and literally pick them up and bring them in. They really shouldn't have these dogs. They are totally out of control.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

LOL - You guys are so right. My dogs' behavior is not rocket science, nor was it a lottery in which I got lucky. It involved persistent, careful effort and planning.

They make eye contact with you when begging for attention because they have been taught to do so, and they don't jump because they have been taught that too. Left to their own devices, they would happily put two paws on your chest and stick their tongues in your ear. 

They are also not shiny and soft by accident. They are fed properly and brushed regularly. I do not have mat-free Golden Retrievers by an accident of genetics. I have a grooming rake, a slicker brush, a bottle of Cowboy Magic, and a mat ripper (which I thankfully have not had to use in over a year).

They are friendly with other dogs because they have been painstakingly socialized. They are not friendly because I just let them run over to people without asking while yelling "They're friendly!" as if yelling it would make it true.

Some dogs are easier to train or take to certain aspects of training more easily than others. The rest is hard work, patient effort, and good technique on the handler's part. Dog training is about building habits.

And my greatest pet peeve of all: people who say the same thing over and over at a dog without changing the conditions of the request, as if the dog will start to catch on if he just hears the word a few more times: "Marty, SIT. Marty....SIT! Marty, SIT. Sit, Marty, SIT. Marty, Marty, SIT. You sit right now! Marty, SIT down! Sit! SIT! Marty, you had better sit or else!" Umm...your dog just thinks you're crazy and that for some reason you're repeating inane syllables at him over and over. I also hate "Marty, don't do that!" and "Marty, you get over here right now!" Dogs do not come preloaded with basic English! They are DOGS.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

LifeOfRiley said:


> People around here are always so amazed when they see my dogs walking nicely on-leash. They're being dragged all over the place by their dogs and always make some sort of comment like, "Wow, he walks so nice for you! I wish mine would do that." Some days, it takes a lot of restraint not to say, "It's called 'training.'" It's as if these people think that my dogs were just born walking nicely on a leash and can't figure out why theirs won't do it.


This drives me CRAZY! Do you have any idea how hard it was to get Jax walking politely on a flat buckle collar? I have spent several hours' worth of 15-minute sessions doing stop and go in the neighborhood and on trails, looking like a crazy person, plus lots and lots of positive heelwork, and he's still only 90% there. He's not well-behaved, people. He is 63 pounds of muscular insanity who has been taught how to walk on a leash.

Left to his own devices, he would happily throttle himself on a buckle collar (or a choke, I assume, but he's never been on one). I TRAINED him not to be a monster. He did not arrive preconfigured.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

As there dog is charging us across the baseball field the owner is yelling its okay he/she is friendly with no care that your dog may or may not like being charged head on even if he or she is firendly. On top of that it is in a place where the dogs must be leashed and they don't have them leashed.

There is a woman with an Akita/jack russell mix that has bitten both dogs and people that continuously lets her dog off leash as he needs to run off steam before she goes off to work. Today she went back to get him as she saw us coming. He didn't listen to any of her calls to him and then maddly ran past her into my dogs face.

My dog is still young and becomes highly aroused quickly so I really don't want him to be set up in this way. When I see her and the dog ahead I turn around and head another route but I can't do that if I don't see them. I change up the times to keep away from her and her dog and she changes up her times. 

We have an enclosed practice batting cage which I like to use to exercise and work on training skills. The other day another lady with a dog off leash at the field told me that I am mean and should let my dog be a dog because I had him sit/stay while her dog charged the outside of the fence. @@ She felt that charging each other through the fence was acceptable dog behavior (her dog was running, barking, snarling, and biting the fence) as my dog watched in his sit/stay position.

Another time this guy lets his lab off leash and gets on his cell phone. The dog wanders over to the batting cage and starts to growl and he just merrily wanders our way still talking on the phone finishes his call and calls the dog over and over with the dog completely ignoring him. By the time he gets to the cages he is giving me dirty looks when it is his dog misbehaving.

I also get tired of people saying their dog is stubborn and knows the commands when they worked with the dog just a few times. It is always blame the dog and not look into their own actions or inactions.


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## AlyGirl1 (Apr 26, 2010)

I think people assume dogs are exactly like humans and understand language and more than one or two word commands. They're DOGS! They want to please their humans but how can we expect them to know what sit, stay, come, heal are if we don't TEACH them first.

I can not stress enough how important training a dog is. It's worth the time and money if you go to a quality trainer. Honestly, I think I learned more from puppy training then my dog! Things are so much better now that we've gone through training and have FOLLOWED THROUGH with what we were taught. Our dog obeys and is a very happy healthy dog. What more could any dog owner want?

I've known many people who've had pets that run the house. They obviously don't know who the pack leader is, or have not assumed the role. It's a sad sight to see knowing how much better it could be, and enjoying their pets instead of constantly punishing, yelling, and wasting energy on an animal that has no clue...just like their owner.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

And so many people think that golden retrievers come out of the womb as trained dogs. I can't tell you how many people have said "Golden Retrievers are born with a CD (a novice level obedience title) on the end of their name." Uh, no, I had to work really hard to train my dogs. Each one has had their own set of issues. Actually, I think the dog that took the least amount of training for their CD was Colby!


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

I am glad that I'm not alone. I finally snapped last night when I was laying in bed and again hear, "Roxy, come." over and over and over again. My husband somehow slept through it all.

My in-laws are SO guilty of this it isn't even funny. I have to bite my tongue usually because I just want to give them a piece of my dog-loving mind. Maggie the cocker spaniel, such a nice dog. HATES other dogs. They just "don't understand why." I'll tell you why... *bites tongue here.* 

"Maggie won't eat her dinner. I don't think she likes her food. Let's put on some canned food- look- she likes it now." Um, MIL- are you kidding me? I bring Maggie a 'Linkables' food toy. Look at Maggie go. She is eating her DRY food. How about that? 

Huge pet peeve. Working at the vet exacerbates this pet peeve x a million. The excuses you hear are endless and nothing short of amazing.


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## AlyGirl1 (Apr 26, 2010)

I think people assume dogs are exactly like humans and understand language and more than one or two word commands. They're DOGS! They want to please their humans but how can we expect them to know what sit, stay, come, heal are if we don't TEACH them first.

I can not stress enough how important training a dog is. It's worth the time and money if you go to a quality trainer. Honestly, I think I learned more from puppy training then my dog! Things are so much better now that we've gone through training and have FOLLOWED THROUGH with what we were taught. Our dog obeys and is a very happy healthy dog. What more could any dog owner want?

I've known many people who've had pets that run the house. They obviously don't know who the pack leader is, or have not assumed the role. It's a sad sight to see knowing how much better it could be, and enjoying their pets instead of constantly punishing, yelling, and wasting energy on an animal that has no clue...just like their owner.


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

A pet peeve of mine also. There is the Airdale that humps everything in sight, owner does nothing. That one little dog with the attitude problem that snaps & growls & bites "I don't know why she does that" The schnauzer that runs to bother other dogs from a 1/4 mile away "I tried everything, that's just the way he is" The person about to return a rescue dog because "its too active for us". The guy that had his Akita tied up to his car door handle with some rotten clothesline as I walk down the street that broke free and viciously attacked my Deardra "what are you doing hitting my dog?" - you got to be kidding me. The little dog next door that runs around free near a busy street and pukes on my doorstep. I could go on and on, It's such a shame, some people don't have a clue. Luckily the majority of dogs we run into are well trained (many different breeds and mixes) and their humans are intelligent enough to realize training is something that continues through the life of a dog.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

But, you know, if you lean over, and should LOUD and SLOWLY, and repeat it, they understand better.

This also works well for people who speak a different language.

ETA: That is sarcasm!


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

RedDogs said:


> But, you know, if you lean over, and should LOUD and SLOWLY, and repeat it, they understand better.
> 
> This also works well for people who speak a different language.
> 
> ETA: That is sarcasm!


:roflmao: It's worked wonders for everyone I've seen do it


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

I especially love it when people tell their dog to do 2 things at once, like when the dog's standing and they yell "SIT DOWN!!!" then get mad when the dog is standing there confused. Um, that's two different commands. I had a friend over who was nicely telling Ranger to "sit down" and he was looking at her blankly. She jokingly said to me "I thought your dog was trained" and I said, "he is - it's you that isn't" and then told her what was going on.

I really hate the giving up a dog because the dog is too active excuse. I think it's more a case of the people being too lazy. Especially in this day and age where there are TONS of interactive toys to keep dogs occupied, not to mention how many dog walkers there are! It's like the case of the family that got the lab puppy - they got a high energy breed and expected him to be content doing nothing all day/night. 

When I got Ranger and started feeding him good food, he got pretty hyper for awhile until his energy leveled out. So it was a 45 - 60 min walk in the morning, breakfast in a frozen kong and then he was calm sleeping in his kennel til lunch. Another walk at lunch (which I realize a lot of people can't do but that's why I also walk in the morning) and then another walk in the evening. By the time I was making supper and watching tv by 8pm...Ranger was calm and sleeping. Luckily, he's done with his excited, hyper stage and he needs less than a third of the walks he was getting a year ago. Step up to the plate, people! Giving a dog away because YOU are lazy is not an option! Or rather, it shouldn't be.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

If my dogs are having a problem (too active in the house, jumping on people, pulling on the leash, barking at the doorbell), I regard it as MY fault. The dog is being a dog, and I'm asking him to live in a house and to perform all kinds of functions that are not built into his DNA. It's MY job to show him how to interact positively with us. The onus is on ME. And if it's something I don't know how to work on, it's MY job to seek outside help.

Taking on a dog, for me, is a sacred trust. Training is just one of the parts of the bargain that I made the day I took him home.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

tippykayak said:


> This drives me CRAZY! Do you have any idea how hard it was to get Jax walking politely on a flat buckle collar? I have spent several hours' worth of 15-minute sessions doing stop and go in the neighborhood and on trails, looking like a crazy person, plus lots and lots of positive heelwork, and he's still only 90% there. He's not well-behaved, people. He is 63 pounds of muscular insanity who has been taught how to walk on a leash.
> 
> Left to his own devices, he would happily throttle himself on a buckle collar (or a choke, I assume, but he's never been on one). I TRAINED him not to be a monster. He did not arrive preconfigured.


Exactly! It's taken me hours and hours of training just to control Gunner on-leash and have some level of confidence that I won't end up in mid-air the second he sees a squirrell. He's 7 years old and the training is still an ongoing thing with him. If I let my guard down and stop reinforcing his good behavior, he'd be perfectly happy to drag me around. And people act as if I'm just lucky. I may be lucky that he's smart enough to have overcome some of my mistakes, but it's involved some pretty hard work for both of us!



tippykayak said:


> And my greatest pet peeve of all: people who say the same thing over and over at a dog without changing the conditions of the request, as if the dog will start to catch on if he just hears the word a few more times: "Marty, SIT. Marty....SIT! Marty, SIT. Sit, Marty, SIT. Marty, Marty, SIT. You sit right now! Marty, SIT down! Sit! SIT! Marty, you had better sit or else!" Umm...your dog just thinks you're crazy and that for some reason you're repeating inane syllables at him over and over. I also hate "Marty, don't do that!" and "Marty, you get over here right now!" Dogs do not come preloaded with basic English! They are DOGS.


LOL. Gotta love that! Or how about the people who go into an all out monologue when they're trying to get their dog to stop jumping all over you? I just love it. This is another thing our neighborhood PITA does. Her little dog jumps all over me (not that I really mind) but I want to beat my head against a tree when this woman tries to make her get down. It's always something to the effect of, "Brianna, no honey. Get down. Come on, be a good girl for mommy. Get down, sweetheart. Please, Brianna..." Needless to say, the dog ignores her. 



Bender said:


> Print out the 'he just wants to say hi' article and put it in her mailbox. :


Heh - I should. I worry for this little dog. One day, she's going to jump on the wrong dog, one who's a little less restrained than Gunner, and she's going to learn her manners the hard way.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I see the repetition of the command frequently, even in training classes where the students have just been told only to use the command once. Then you remind them individually to only use the command once, but they still repeat the command. I think it must be a confidence issue and a human issue. We do it with other humans (like kids) all the time. It eventually works with kids, not with dogs.

I frequently have people compliment me on my dogs behavior, and sometimes they ask how I do it. I do answer that I am lucky, my pups are good, but they also they get lots of exercise and training. I am lucky that I get to spend lots of time with my dogs, but that was my choice, and I arranged my priorities in life to so that I could live this way.


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## AlyGirl1 (Apr 26, 2010)

I really don't understand why people get dogs if they can't take care of them. I am not an animal activist, but I understand that animals are helpless creatures and want to trust their humans. It's not fair to take an animal into your home with no intention of giving him/her what it needs to thrive. 

People really need to think about what they are taking on, research the breed that matches their lifetyle and make a sound decision. It is an investment, but so rewarding if you put in the time!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I teach pet classes for a living. I could write a book on the subject. :-/


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> I teach pet classes for a living. I could write a book on the subject. :-/


I would shake some of the owners. I can't stand it at a class when an excellent instructor gives clear, excellent advice, and the owner just keeps doing it the way they were doing it. Hello! You're paying this expert to help you train better...why are you ignoring her?


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Selli-Belle said:


> I frequently have people compliment me on my dogs behavior, and sometimes they ask how I do it. I do answer that I am lucky, my pups are good, but they also they get lots of exercise and training.


I so agree. When people ask me, "how did you get them to behave so well?" I say "A two hour hike this morning."


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I SO relate and agree with everything that's been said.

When we are outside in our the front/side yard with the boys and people either with or without dogs come walking by, we put S&G in a sit stay or down stay. The people ALWAYS say"Oh your dogs are SO smart! I wish my dog would do that!" DUH!!!!! I usually say "They weren't born this way. We trained them and you can train your dog too". This is most times met with silence and off they go with their dog, barking and pulling, trying to get to S&G who are sitting calmly, waiting for their release command. : )


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Ranger said:


> I really hate the giving up a dog because the dog is too active excuse. I think it's more a case of the people being too lazy. Especially in this day and age where there are TONS of interactive toys to keep dogs occupied, not to mention how many dog walkers there are! It's like the case of the family that got the lab puppy - they got a high energy breed and expected him to be content doing nothing all day/night.
> Step up to the plate, people! Giving a dog away because YOU are lazy is not an option! Or rather, it shouldn't be.


Yep, that's another pet peeve for me. But people who can't bother to put the effort into some basic training certainly aren't going to get off their backsides long enough to properly exercise their dog.

Some people seem to think that I'm some sort of nut because I walk my dogs so much. This one neighbor jokes with me about it and one day asked me how I do it. Well, I do it because I want to and because I have to. Riley is fairly laidback and doesn't need a terrible amount of exercise. Gunner, on the other hand, needs at least 4 - 6 miles a day, at a good clip, sometimes wearing a weighted backpack. This guy actually said "Boy, I'll bet you didn't know what you were getting into, did you?" Um... No. I knew _exactly_ what I was getting into. (His breeder didn't disguise him as a little lap dog that wouldn't need much exercise.)

But people around here don't do it. They take them out for a quick walk, just long enough for the dog to do its business, then haul them back inside. And they wonder why their dog goes crazy when it DOES get out.

And what really gets me (lol - obviously this is something that really annoys me to no end!) is that there are shows on tv now. Anyone can set the DVR and watch Victoria or Cesar. Obviously it's not a substitute for a hands-on trainer, but you can pick up some really good, basic tips just by watching tv. There's no excuse.
And what do you see in almost every single one of these episodes? The root of the problem is that the dog doesn't get enough exercise.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

Rangers and LifeofRiley made me think of another thing that annoys me to no end.

Those that don't exercise or train their dogs and then go out and get another dog to do their work for them. Then they end up with two untrained dogs. Many people do this and it drives me nuts.
I just can't imagine how they think getting another untrained dog is going to solve the problem not add to it.

According to some study I read the biggest reason for dogs being turned in is due to behavior problems. Most behavior problems are because the owner didn't put the time in to train or just didn't train well. 

It isn't the same as someone who has the time, money and so much love that they will take on more than one dog giving every dog all that they need.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Solinvictus - that is what annoys me to no end about my brother's dog. When he rescued the pup at 3 months, Blue was calm and low energy and they got away with not doing much with him walking-wise. Now Blue's 9 months and more high energy than Ranger...and yet he still doesn't get the exercise needed. My brother seems to think playtime with Ranger every day is all the exercise he needs. So on the weekends when the dogs don't get to play together, Blue is whining around the house, staring at my brother, begging to go outside and do something!

I feel so bad for the little guy...I've tried talking to my brother, my parent's have tried talking to him but this poor, high energy dog only gets about 3 walks a week and 2 of those walks are done by the dog walker. Blue hasn't been destructive, but I'm almost hoping one of these days he chews up a chair leg; maybe then my brother will realize this guy needs a LONG walk each day! Case in point: I took Blue out hiking with me and Ranger a few weekends ago because I felt sorry for him. We were out for 4 hours and when we got home, Ranger slept for the rest of the afternoon. Blue napped for 20 min then was wandering around looking for something else to do. Does that seem like a dog who'll be content with one walk every 2-3 days?? This little guy LIVES for coming over to play with Ranger...because he's so bored and understimulated.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

LifeofRiley - Heaven forbid you actually did RESEARCH on the dog and breed you bought so you knew what to expect!! No!!! What a novel concept! /end sarcasm. It sickens me that people put more effort into researching a car that they'll own for 3-4 years than they will into a dog that will live for 10+ years. 

There's a person down the street that has 2 huskies. I hear them barking each time I walk Ranger past and the owner told me that gee, I sure walk my dog a lot. I asked him how much he walks his dogs since "huskies are high-energy" and he replied never. He never walks his dogs. Apparently, the first time he did, they PULLED on the LEASH and he had no control! So I asked about obedience classes and he looked at me blankly. Instead, his solution was to get another high energy dog to play with the first, build a 6 ft high fence, and put a MATTRESS over the picture window because the dogs are so aggressive they actually broke through it once to attack a dog they saw being walked. I gave him the card of my dog trainer and walked away - and never went past that house again.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

We also need to consider why people are doing some of the silly things they do.

The number of members (esp new) here with new puppies and not enrolled in a puppy socialization class, let alone a basic training class. So...why aren't they/you doing that? Some vets are advocating that it's not safe until the dog has completed all his vaccinations....which happens after the primary socialization period ends. So we should all take RK Anderson's paper (http://www.apdt.com/petowners/articles/docs/RKAndersonLetter.pdf) and the AVSAB position statement on puppy socialization (http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/puppy socialization.pdf). Even if you have an adult dog, take these to your vet and politely discuss them. According to one survey done with the VIN ("Veterinary Information Network" right? a vet online resource sorta site.....right vets?), most vets are NOT aware of these resources/information and would likely follow this if they were aware. All it might take is a vet passing out the AVSAB puppy socialization paper and contact for a local puppy class and new puppy owners might be enrolling in classes, training their puppy, forming a bond, and the well behaved puppy staying in the home. 
Cost is another issue... maybe we need to get clever on finding ways to educate potential pet owners on the huge expense regular care is. Or that these puppy classes are essential, not really 'optional'. Or in some areas we might need to get shelters/rescue groups to set up low-cost training classes. 
Time to go to class or class enrollement already started are two other things...maybe the kids need to take a few weeks off of their activities, or training facilities NEED to offer puppy classes that allows new puppies to join every week. Talk to puppy schools about this... people don't have a lot of primary socialization time and every week counts. Waiting 3 weeks can make a big difference in socialization as well as the bond puppy owners have.... as we can see with all the frustrated baby puppy owners here.

I do love complaining... but the other half of it is doing something about it. I can be sympathetic towards people doing things less-than-ideal.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

I do love complaining... but the other half of it is doing something about it. I can be sympathetic towards people doing things less-than-ideal. 

Well said RedDog. 

I think that the majority of people that find their way to this forum and ask questions aren't the ones we are complaining about but the ones that in our daily lives never make any effort at all to make a difference in their dogs lives.

For newbies to dog owning or even people that haven't had a dog in a "few" years there is no stupid question. All questions are valid. There is so much newer information (science) on how dogs think and respond that every day we can find a better way to train something a dog can learn. 
Sometimes we as owners have to (run) speed read, go to school ourselves to catch up. 

As someone said/or what I got out of it anyway was I have daily "handslaps to the head duh moments" And then my dog cheers me on and says I knew you would get it. lol (you say) How do you know your dog is cheering you on? Because....... then we work/play together and it goes much smoother.

WE HAVE FUN!!!!


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

I feel so bad for the little guy...I've tried talking to my brother,

Blue has a great Aunt and a wonderful cousin. Sometimes it gets frustrating that they don't get it. 

But I have seen people in class go through 4 or 5 weeks of class and then actually have an epiphany. Some people only hear a portion of what we say, it takes a lot longer for all of it to be digested and comsumed. So never give up hope.


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## Faith's mommy (Feb 26, 2007)

Ranger said:


> This is one of my biggest annoyances. People who put no effort or time into their dog whatsoever and then blame the dog for being "dumb". Then the same people look at a well-behaved dog and think (and usually tell the owner) how "lucky" they were that they got such a nice dog. It's not the luck of the draw, people!! It's training!


 
YES! THIS!

god if i hear one more time how "lucky" we are that Faith is so good. um, no, i have spent ALOT of time training with her.

oh, and if i hear one more time "oh, it's a rescue, and you can't teach them anything" - i then go in to my talk about how Faith is a rescue and yet is certified for therapy work blah blah - blank stares or "well, you're lucky she's a good one" :doh:


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Solinvictus - at least I here I can vent my frustrations! I try to take Blue on as many walks I can with Ranger, usually at lunchtime so at least he gets a few extra walks. My brother KNOWS he should be walking/doing more with Blue, he says it all the time and even said this weekend when Blue was going nuts that it was his [brother's] fault because he didn't walk Blue much that weekend. Well....get out and do it!! I think it's mostly laziness, which I hate to say. But Blue is such a great little guy and he just wants to learn and please SOOO much. I taught him how to jump over some chairs and he almost fell down, he was wagging his tail so hard because he was so proud of himself! Maybe I should just steal him...and then change countries!


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Faith's Mom - that stigma attached to rescue dogs annoys the hell out of me. Why do some people think that the DOG did something to end up in the shelter when more than half the time it was only the poor dog's bad luck to have an idiot for an owner?

Yeah, it was RANGER'S fault that his mom was used to reproduce mixed breeds for money. Then it was definitely Ranger's fault that some d-bag bought him as a pup, chained him to a tree and routinely beat the living lights out of him for the next 9 months. Yep, it was all Ranger's fault he ended up in a rescue. Because Ranger was the bad guy in that scenario.

My family is big on rescuing and the best dog's we've had have been rescues. Rescues seem to know they've gotten a second chance and the gratefulness in their eyes never seems to really leave.

Sorry - hijack over - back to people who expect great dogs even though they don't want to put any effort in.


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## scottie (Oct 1, 2007)

I took Charlie for a 6wk puppy foundation training class which he loved and passed with flying colours, we went back for a refresher day a year later and the trainer was very pleased with him but the other goldie from the class was unruly, jumping up, couldn't be let off a lead at all. 
When the trainer asked if she had kept up the training, the woman said she thought the 6wks covered everything and hadn't done any more, she thought goldies were just a bit dumb and "full of beans" but was thinking of giving him up as he was so much work and would I want him :uhoh:
I think a lot of owners get a dog, do some training then forget to reinforce and expand on it.
My pet hate are the owners of some small dogs who think their dog doesn't need training and could my dog stop looking at theirs as they get frightened!


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## Luci (May 26, 2009)

I totally understand! It's been the same thing with us. We take Lucy pretty much everywhere with us (that we're able) and people usually comment on how well behaved she is. They generally put it down to her breed. We've had Lucy in puppy classes since November when she was 3 months old! I should hope she's exhibiting some of those manners by now!

We're just starting to get the hang of walking on a loose leash and can relate to how much work it is. :doh:


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Ranger said:


> LifeofRiley - Heaven forbid you actually did RESEARCH on the dog and breed you bought so you knew what to expect!! No!!! What a novel concept! /end sarcasm. It sickens me that people put more effort into researching a car that they'll own for 3-4 years than they will into a dog that will live for 10+ years.
> 
> There's a person down the street that has 2 huskies. I hear them barking each time I walk Ranger past and the owner told me that gee, I sure walk my dog a lot. I asked him how much he walks his dogs since "huskies are high-energy" and he replied never. He never walks his dogs. Apparently, the first time he did, they PULLED on the LEASH and he had no control! So I asked about obedience classes and he looked at me blankly. Instead, his solution was to get another high energy dog to play with the first, build a 6 ft high fence, and put a MATTRESS over the picture window because the dogs are so aggressive they actually broke through it once to attack a dog they saw being walked. I gave him the card of my dog trainer and walked away - and never went past that house again.


Oh, those poor dogs. That just makes me sick.
I think a big part of it is that people are just basically selfish. And more than a little ignorant. They don't bother finding a dog that will fit their lifestyle - they just expect the dog to conform (and with little or no effort on their part.) They don't research the breed -- they just get the hairbrained idea that they want this particular dog, for whatever reason, and don't stop to consider what the dog will want from _them_.




solinvictus said:


> I think that the majority of people that find their way to this forum and ask questions aren't the ones we are complaining about but the ones that in our daily lives never make any effort at all to make a difference in their dogs lives.


Yep. Definitely not trashing anyone who comes here (or anywhere else) looking for help and advice. Everyone starts somewhere. I'm sure most of us, at some point, didn't know what the heck we were doing either! Sometimes, I still don't! : 

It's the ones who have out-of-control dogs and make no effort to do anything about it (and then look at me like I'm some kind of wingnut because I train and exercise my dogs) that drive me crazy.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Ranger said:


> Faith's Mom - that stigma attached to rescue dogs annoys the hell out of me. Why do some people think that the DOG did something to end up in the shelter when more than half the time it was only the poor dog's bad luck to have an idiot for an owner?


I agree with you, Ranger!! 

Yep, I look on Craigslist all the time. It ALWAYS seems like the dog's fault that the family just doesn't spend enough time with them anymore. Or that the family got pregnant. Or that the family is moving. Or that the dog started off as a small puppy but grew up. Yup. All the dog's fault!

People. Seriously. Bother. Me.

(I'm in a pretty crappy mood to begin with, so this isn't helping. I wish Ranger's owner could be tied to a tree and beaten for 9 months. But I guess that's against the law. )


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

RedDogs said:


> We also need to consider why people are doing some of the silly things they do.
> 
> The number of members (esp new) here with new puppies and not enrolled in a puppy socialization class, let alone a basic training class. So...why aren't they/you doing that? Some vets are advocating that it's not safe until the dog has completed all his vaccinations....which happens after the primary socialization period ends. So we should all take RK Anderson's paper (http://www.apdt.com/petowners/articles/docs/RKAndersonLetter.pdf) and the AVSAB position statement on puppy socialization (http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/puppy socialization.pdf). Even if you have an adult dog, take these to your vet and politely discuss them. According to one survey done with the VIN ("Veterinary Information Network" right? a vet online resource sorta site.....right vets?), most vets are NOT aware of these resources/information and would likely follow this if they were aware. All it might take is a vet passing out the AVSAB puppy socialization paper and contact for a local puppy class and new puppy owners might be enrolling in classes, training their puppy, forming a bond, and the well behaved puppy staying in the home.
> Cost is another issue... maybe we need to get clever on finding ways to educate potential pet owners on the huge expense regular care is. Or that these puppy classes are essential, not really 'optional'. Or in some areas we might need to get shelters/rescue groups to set up low-cost training classes.
> ...


I couldn't agree more. Vets and other professionals need to emphasize the importance of early socialization and obedience classes. Many owners rely on their veterinarian to guide them on the care for their pet. They don't see information elsewhere. Vets need to be up to date and knowledgeable and pass along that information to clients. 

The cost of classes is a deterrent. However, I think that if you can't afford the classes, you certainly shouldn't have a dog. Obedience classes and veterinary care are part of owning a dog. They should go hand-in-hand. I know people that can't afford much, but do the best by their dogs. If you can't get to a class, at least they're out and about socializing the dog to the best of their ability. Then there are those on the other hand that have no clue, have no vet, and don't really care. They are the ones that really make my blood boil.

We went through the whole "Roxy come" saga again last night with the neighbors as she ran through our backyard. This time I asked if maybe she should enroll in an obedience course so that she would listen/respond. The owner looked at me as if I were crazy. "Classes, we don't need classes. She's a lovely dog and only doesn't listen outside." Well, isn't that the most important place for her to obey your commands?? I guess not! :no::doh:


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Well, thinking of this thread - I'm sure I came off as a b**** to a lady at a DQ last night. I was in line and overheard this mom behind me who was chatting with her friend as her pre-teen kids ran loose all over. Mom was talking about getting a dog "for the kids" so they could "learn responsibility and how to care for it". I'm thinking, "lady, you haven't taught your own kids manners, how are you going to teach a dog?" as her kids run screaming past me again. Then I hear her saying that she's thinking of getting a border collie since her cousin had one when she was growing up on a farm and it had been so smart. 

Alarm bells are going off in my head at this point but it gets better. She says she "doesn't have time to go on walks NOW" but she's sure she will when she gets a puppy and THAT will help her lose weight. Lady, if you aren't walking now because you don't have time with all your kids, how in the hell do you think you'll find time when you add a puppy to the mix? What's going to happen to the puppy when (not if) the kids don't walk him? Who's going to train the dog? What are the consequences if the kids don't do like they promised (which they won't) and don't feed the dog/pick up poop? Who's going to suffer the consequences? Is the dog going to end up at the pound, another untrained, under-exercised dog on death row because YOU thought it would be a good idea to get a high-energy breed of dog that's unsuitable for your lifestyle??

And yes, I did ask her all those questions but in a much nicer way than I just conveyed here. She quickly got defensive, but thanks to a class I'd just taken *thank you Crucial Confrontations* I calmed her down and we ended up having a good chat about researching dog breeds, dog costs, and I pointed her to come good trainers to call and chat with. 

Then on the way out, I body-checked her kid when he came flying at me on those **** roller-runners they wear. Whoops.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Mssjnnfer said:


> (I'm in a pretty crappy mood to begin with, so this isn't helping. I wish Ranger's owner could be tied to a tree and beaten for 9 months. But I guess that's against the law. )


That's how I felt when I heard about it, too. Took me a few days before I could even LOOK at ranger without tears welling up. You get the chain, I'll get the bat and let's hunt this mofo down.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Ranger said:


> Then on the way out, I body-checked her kid when he came flying at me on those **** roller-runners they wear. Whoops.


You shall be my hero forever. Just for this. 

We HATE the wheelie shoes. 

Some people are just ignorant. I'm sure that dog will be just an item to her, too. Another toy for her undoubtedly spoiled anima-...er... children.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Ranger said:


> That's how I felt when I heard about it, too. Took me a few days before I could even LOOK at ranger without tears welling up. You get the chain, I'll get the bat and let's hunt this mofo down.


Do you know who they are? Was he in a shelter or something? That is just so sickening. I'm so glad he's with you now, though!! 

ps: i'll get some duct tape.


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## Laurie (Sep 20, 2009)

Ranger said:


> That's how I felt when I heard about it, too. Took me a few days before I could even LOOK at ranger without tears welling up. You get the chain, I'll get the bat and let's hunt this mofo down.


He's not even my dog and I get tears ......I just don't understand how or why anyone would want to intentionally harm an innocent animal. Good thing I wasn't living beside those $&*@(#^ morons.....I'd probably be in jail!!! Makes my blood boil to think about it......so glad Ranger found love in the end!!!


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Laurie said:


> He's not even my dog and I get tears ......I just don't understand how or why anyone would want to intentionally harm an innocent animal. Good thing I wasn't living beside those $&*@(#^ morons.....I'd probably be in jail!!! Makes my blood boil to think about it......so glad Ranger found love in the end!!!


I saw my 7 or 8 year old cousin beating my grandma's then young puppy (boston terrier) with a rope toy this past Christmas. I freaked out. There's a thread about it floating around here somewhere. He was never taught to respect and love animals, and I have a feeling this won't be his last bit of animal cruelty.


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## Laurie (Sep 20, 2009)

Mssjnnfer said:


> I saw my 7 or 8 year old cousin beating my grandma's then young puppy (boston terrier) with a rope toy this past Christmas. I freaked out. There's a thread about it floating around here somewhere. He was never taught to respect and love animals, and I have a feeling this won't be his last bit of animal cruelty.


 
I do believe I read that thread......that's another thing that irks the he^% out of me...people who get dogs or cats (or any other animal) and don't teach their child or children to respect them. I don't know how many countless times I've witnessed kids hitting or kicking a dog or cat and how many times I've reacted not so favorably.  Mind you, I've also witnessed adults hitting their dogs as well but unfortunately you have to be a bit more cautious with them when reacting.

BTW.....I love Maxie's new picture. She was just so young.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Ranger said:


> That's how I felt when I heard about it, too. Took me a few days before I could even LOOK at ranger without tears welling up. You get the chain, I'll get the bat and let's hunt this mofo down.


I'll bring the shovel.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Ranger said:


> Then on the way out, I body-checked her kid when he came flying at me on those **** roller-runners they wear. Whoops.


Way to go. Sometimes people just need to hear the crystal clear truth. Glad you were able to give her a reality check.

You.Are.My.Hero. This is SO funny. I hate, hate, hate those shoes. I had a kid skate past me in the grocery store and I nearly dropped my basket. Little s**t.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Ranger said:


> Well, thinking of this thread - I'm sure I came off as a b**** to a lady at a DQ last night. I was in line and overheard this mom behind me who was chatting with her friend as her pre-teen kids ran loose all over. Mom was talking about getting a dog "for the kids" so they could "learn responsibility and how to care for it". I'm thinking, "lady, you haven't taught your own kids manners, how are you going to teach a dog?" as her kids run screaming past me again. Then I hear her saying that she's thinking of getting a border collie since her cousin had one when she was growing up on a farm and it had been so smart.
> 
> Alarm bells are going off in my head at this point but it gets better. She says she "doesn't have time to go on walks NOW" but she's sure she will when she gets a puppy and THAT will help her lose weight. Lady, if you aren't walking now because you don't have time with all your kids, how in the hell do you think you'll find time when you add a puppy to the mix? What's going to happen to the puppy when (not if) the kids don't walk him? Who's going to train the dog? What are the consequences if the kids don't do like they promised (which they won't) and don't feed the dog/pick up poop? Who's going to suffer the consequences? Is the dog going to end up at the pound, another untrained, under-exercised dog on death row because YOU thought it would be a good idea to get a high-energy breed of dog that's unsuitable for your lifestyle??
> 
> ...


I did something similar with my cousin, who randomly informed me one day that she thought huskies were beautiful and wants to own one someday. This came from a girl who sleeps until 4pm, NEVER goes outside, and has owned cats all her life. I point blank said, "No. No no no no, don't ever get a husky, it would be miserable and so would you."

It's amazing how people think. Like, oh, that dog is so pretty, I want one! I think border collies are gorgeous, but oh my goodness, I could never ever deal with its energy.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Laurie said:


> ....that's another thing that irks the he^% out of me...people who get dogs or cats (or any other animal) and don't teach their child or children to respect them.


Oh, that just makes me furious. And you see it so often. It may be terrible, but whenever I hear about a little kid being bitten by the family dog, my first thought is to wonder what the little brat did to it.

I was raised with German Shepherds, so I was taught to respect them and taught how to treat a dog at a _very_ early age. 

I remember one incident that happened when I was about seven or eight years old. We had taken in a huge, longhaired GSD named Brute. Well, Brute had some issues, resource guarding being the worst. We had to respect his space while he was eating. I knew this, and yet one day I approached him to walk past and he didn't growl, so I thought I'd get cute and stroke his back as I walked by him. Yeah. Not smart. He turned around, growled and snapped at me. The first words out of mom's mouth were "What did you do wrong?" I told her that I had tried to pet him, she very calmly reminded me that I knew better, not to do it again, and don't come crying to her if I do and he bites me. LOL. I learned real quick that I'd better respect Brute because I wouldn't get any sympathy from mom if I screwed up!


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## Laurie (Sep 20, 2009)

LifeOfRiley said:


> Oh, that just makes me furious. And you see it so often. It may be terrible, but whenever I hear about a little kid being bitten by the family dog, my first thought is to wonder what the little brat did to it.


LOL.....you and me both!!! I've got a few friends that don't have pets and when they come over and bring their kids, the kids usually love to torment our cat.....chase her all over the house, try to pick her up, etc. Well, she's a very loving cat with us but she's not used to little kids. So, I warn them not to bug her...they still do and minutes later they come crying to mommy that the kitty scratched them!!! Do I feel bad......nope!! Don't get me wrong, I love the kids but DON'T TORMENT MY PETS!! As much as my dogs love kids....I don't let them out of my sight when kids are around. If one of them ever laid a hand on them....well, I won't even go there!!!


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Laurie said:


> LOL.....you and me both!!! I've got a few friends that don't have pets and when they come over and bring their kids, the kids usually love to torment our cat.....chase her all over the house, try to pick her up, etc. Well, she's a very loving cat with us but she's not used to little kids. So, I warn them not to bug her...they still do and minutes later they come crying to mommy that the kitty scratched them!!! Do I feel bad......nope!! Don't get me wrong, I love the kids but DON'T TORMENT MY PETS!! As much as my dogs love kids....I don't let them out of my sight when kids are around. If one of them ever laid a hand on them....well, I won't even go there!!!


I wouldn't feel bad about it, either. You've warned them not to bother her. 

My dogs aren't used to kids, so I'm always very cautious with them. Riley is shy enough that it's usually not an issue - he wants no part of them. But since we've moved into this complex, I've had a couple very young children ask if they can pet Gunner. I feel bad, and I'm always very nice about it, but I say no. If I don't know the parents and don't know that the kids have been taught how to approach and pet a dog, I'm just not taking the chance. Too many things can go wrong, too quickly. Gunner is very friendly and pretty tolerant, but I don't know how he'd take it if a little kid would decide to grab hold of an ear, or something. I figure it's better to play it safe and protect the kid AND Gunner.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

I was worried when taking Ranger out to see the (now ex) boyfriend's niece and nephew last summer. I'd only had Ranger a few months at the time and didn't know he'd react with these 2 kids who are out of control and used to their own dogs who pretty much let the kids do whatever they want. Not that the kids are mean or anything, just young and they think it's okay to grab dogs around the neck and do whatever to them. I mentioned it to their mom and she said if he snaps at them, well, they'll learn how to act around other dogs. I didn't think it was RANGER's place to teach them manners but...whatever. The parents thought I was weird because I wanted to actually supervise the kids playing with my dog, let alone supervise two young kids anyway!!

Luckily, Ranger was AMAZING with the kids (4 and 2 yrs old). They hugged him, dragged him around by his collar, had tea parties with him and he was in 7th heaven. No lie! The little girl was pulling at his collar to bring him somewhere and he was sitting proudly and wagging his tail like the happiest dog in the world. I only put my foot down when they were trying to get in his crate with him. And like I said, there was no meanness or nastiness - just kids who've never been taught not to be rough with dogs.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Mssjnnfer said:


> Do you know who they are? Was he in a shelter or something? That is just so sickening. I'm so glad he's with you now, though!!
> 
> ps: i'll get some duct tape.


Thanks everyone for the support of Ranger! It's a bit of a sketchy situation and no, I don't know the person or where he/she is. I'm just so unbelievable happy that Ranger got out of that situation. It feels unreal sometimes when I think that that happened to the dog lying next to me...like it can't have happened to MY dog. But it did and it makes me sick. More of his story is in the "Where did you get your rescue" thread...I'm glad Ranger got a happy ending, well, beginning, and he says hi to all his friends and supporters in internet-land!

Oh, and as for those wheelie shoes...that's not the first time i've body-checked a kid wearing those and I'm sure it won't be the last.


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## Phillyfisher (Jan 9, 2008)

Originally Posted by *Ranger*  
_That's how I felt when I heard about it, too. Took me a few days before I could even LOOK at ranger without tears welling up. You get the chain, I'll get the bat and let's hunt this mofo down._



tippykayak said:


> I'll bring the shovel.


I'll bring the lime.


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## Phillyfisher (Jan 9, 2008)

My pet peeve: High strung yappy-ass little dogs that their owners let out to the end of those stupid flexi-leads. Who ever invented them should be strangled with one. Argh! 

A couple of weekends ago, I was walking with Tucker when all of a sudden this fear aggressive high strung football of a dog comes bolting around his seated owner out of nowhere, right toward Tucker and me. I am thinking there is no way this dog is getting anywhere near Tucker, so I position myself between it and Tucker. The dog is trying to dart between my legs as we walk by to get to Tucker, while the owner just sits there letting the **** lead extend to it's fullest. "Oh he is friendly!" I am practically getting tangled in the **** leash, all the while continuously shoving the dog out of our way with my outside foot trying to get by. 

I love going to class with Tucker. I look forward to it every week. The best thing that happened to me last week- when our trainer came up to us after class and told us how happy she was to see Tucker be relaxed among all the other dogs in class, tell us "all of your hard work is paying off" and that he has turned a corner. 

I love how Tucker has bonded to everyone in our family, because we have all taken the time to work with him. I will be eternally thankful for how much closer Tucker has made our family. I feel sad for those people who don't take the time to work with their dog, and bond with it. They will never, ever know the true impact a dog can make in their lives.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

Just saw this thread. Our first obedience class (thread in the training part of the forum for anyone who wants to have a looksy at our experience) was yesterday. Max is over a year old and I know he should have been in one before this but there just aren't any classes. 

Anywho, I found it so interesting knowing what I have learned here about dogs that I could check list and understand every dog just by watching it for a minute or so. For example, the little white dog - westie maybe? I think I said she was a yorkie but I was wrong about that - obviously well trained but not socialized the best kind of dog. Hit that nail on the head!! The 9 month old possible pit mix - no socialization with dogs or people and not a lot of training. I asked the owners if they socialized their dog a lot- they said no but they plan to now and in the future. A bit late there. The boxer - socialized around doggies but not so much around people but his owners ovbiously spend time teaching him things - exactly what they said later on in class. 3 for 3, I'm thinking.
And then there was pug/beagle cross who was the poster girl for a completely untrained dog with clueless humans. They brought these little lean puppy treats and said that they were really careful what they fed their dog - no people food but obviously didn't spend a moment training their dog. I don't even think this dog knew her name or she just didn't care!! All she wanted to do was jump, bark, and ignore her owners.
I did try to give them a focus tip - to first teach their dog to look at them before teaching her anything else and the daughter goes, oh, we do that. Uh huh, yeah, sure you do and if you do, you're doing it wrong. 
I've decided that I'm going to try to talk to them again - and show them what I mean by teaching focus by using Max. For him it will be great because he does it automatically so it will be treat heaven but I'm hoping by modelling it maybe they can go, oh, like that.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Phillyfisher said:


> My pet peeve: High strung yappy-ass little dogs that their owners let out to the end of those stupid flexi-leads. Who ever invented them should be strangled with one. Argh!


Oh come on now, any dog weighing under fifteen pounds or so doesn't need training. Didn't you know that? Everyone thinks it's cute when they act like little demons. 

But all joking aside, yes - that's one of my pet peeves, too. (I'm finding out that I have a lot of those, where dogs are concerned. lol.)
We have quite a few little yappy dogs here in our apartment complex and the vast majority of them are just downright annoying. They bark, growl, lunge and act like perfect little beasts and the owners just laugh. I want to tell them that their size is no excuse to let them behave that way. There have been a couple times, when I've been walking Gunner, that I've _almost_ asked an owner, "Would you think it's cute if MY dog acted that way? Or would you run right up to the office to report a vicious dog?" 

The ones I really love are the owners who have these little beasts, yet scoop them up, cooing things like "Mommy's little baby" when I walk by with Gunner, like _he's _the one who's going to start a fight.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

I dislike the little dogs with no training whatsoever. Ranger ran into one of these yappy little things once at the petstore. It was a little maltese cross and the owner had her in the store without a leash on. Brilliant. Dog was running around like an idiot, yapping at everything and kept coming up to Ranger (who was sitting politely), barking at him, then taking off. Ranger is staring at this thing, like "*** is that?" and owner is nowhere in sight. Finally, maltese comes up again and the lightbulb clicks in Ranger's head that this noisy, powderpuff is a DOG and he promptly tries to play...by putting his paw out and squashing the maltese like a bug. 

Maltese SCREAMS while it's flattened like a pancake and the owner comes rushing over and starts berating me about MY dog. Um...Ranger hadn't moved besides his paw. He was still sitting. But of course it was all my fault. Not hers for bringing in an unleashed, out of control dog or for not staying anywhere near it. Nope, totally my fault.

I had one lady open up her van door and let her little dog run right out and come straight up to Ranger! She didn't even ask! She just said, "oh she's friendly" as if that made it okay. She had no idea whether or not Ranger was...and at that point I wasn't sure how Ranger reacted to little dogs. Not to mention how many times people make the "friendly" comment seconds before their dogs attack another one. Then it's the "oh, but she NEVER does that!". Yeaaah...sure she doesn't.


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## AmandaSmelser (Mar 22, 2010)

This is a great topic! I felt very rude to a woman last night on my walk, but I think you could say she deserved it. William was on his retractor leash (a treat for him), but when I was within about 500 ft from a lady with a medium-large sheperd mix-looking dog also on a retractor, I gathered up William for his heel position. We kept walking toward the lady and as I got closer, I noticed she was distracted with her phone, had her ipod engaged, but seemed to be looking in my general direction. From about 30 feet, I say clearly, "Is your dog friendly?" No response. Now her dog is extending the retractor on his way over to me and William, tail in high-up position. I'm getting a tad bit nervous and as I stop, I repeat a little louder, "Is your dog friendly?" At this point, her dog has arrived and begun to touch noses with William, but he looked a little tense. As the lady looks up and realizes that her dog is meeting another dog, she quickly yanks back on his leash, saying his name, and finally realizes that I have been saying something to her. She removes an earbud and says, "What?" I say in an irritated tone as her dog continues to move in toward William, who is standing beside me still, "Is YOUR dog friendly?!?" She says, "Oh, I had my music on." I looked right at her and said, "No ****." Then I proceeded on with my walk as she dragged her dog away in the other direction. She said something back toward me that I just needed to relax. What a stupid woman! I said back to her that I have no way of knowing whose dogs are aggressive. William has been attacked unprovoked twice on this trail. Both of those dogs were unleashed. So yes, people who get dogs and don't train them are annoying, but people who do not pay any attention to their dog while walking are also extremely obnoxious.

Ah, it feels good to vent.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

That is one of my pet peeves too! That's why I don't let Ranger meet dogs on flexi-leads. Owner is too far away if something were to occur and most dogs I see on those leashes are walking down the street with chest puffed out...those are the dogs that usually squabble with Ranger. 

I've had clueless people like that come up to me or TRY to get their dogs to meet Ranger and I either cross the street with a "sorry, he's in training" while thinking "just like your dog should be..." or I give Ranger the command "leave it" and "let's go". Anything to get his attention away from the strange dog before it gets too intense.


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## windfair (Jul 19, 2008)

Pet Peeve #1
My mother has a black lab mix (I think it is pit bull because it is shaped like a torpedo and has the strength of one too.) that never ever listens to her unless she has a very tasty and desirable treat in her hand and really wanted to do whatever my Mom asked anyway. She insinuated that my golden girl Alex was "Dumb" because she wanted to please us and listened to us when we gave her commands such as come, stay, down. Her dog, much smarter, runs into moving vehicles when she bolts from the house as soon as anyone opens the door. This dog is a nightmare to dog sit for, as she barks at night for no reason, runs right in front of you while you walk down the stairs, acts like Houdini anytime you come close to a door, can't be around other dogs, etc. The dog is 14 now, and has settled down, at least we can catch her when bolts out the door, but I wish people would just teach their dogs some basic good manners and simple commands just in case someone else has to ever watch their pet -- like when and if they have to go to the hospital. Would like to remind people that some of those endearing little traits, might be very annoying to others.


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## eirepup (Apr 14, 2010)

Theres a husky that lives on my street and his owners are always walking him at the same time as I walk Finn. Every single time we walk past eachother the husky tries to go for Finn growling and barking like crazy and Finn blanks him and keeps walking. Yesterday the owner was walking down the road with the husky off leash walking on the other side of the fence in the fields and the husky went nuts lunging at the fence trying to get Finn and followed us most of the way up the road ignoring his owners calls (lucky there was no holes in the fence!). Then today they had the husky off leash on the green around the corner from my house he saw Finn came running towards us very aggresively ignoring its owner calling so I just stood still with Finn luckily the husky seemed confused by Finns reaction and didnt attack and I just kept walking. Why would anyone let their dog off leash in a neighbourhood with lots of dogs if they are aggresive??? Its more annoying because I actually stopped letting Finn off leash on this green since they moved in just incase the husky is around and Finn tries to say hi. I wouldn't even know what to do if he did attack Finn!


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Tonight the stupidity continues.

Walking Bea on my parent's street. Neighbor up the street has a mean cocker spaniel. The dog has already attacked a few dogs, one required stitches. You'd think this would prompt the owners to keep the dog on-leash while outside. Nope- instead they get an invisible fence and continue to allow the dog out in the front yard. Today the family was distracted in the garage, the dog is out, and it didn't have it's invisible fence collar. It attacked Bea, trying to bite her!! Bea wasn't hurt but she sat down and kept turning her back to the dog as I tried to drag her away while yelling at the other dog. Bea finally snarled at her but the little dog persisted. My mom was also there trying to separate the dogs and the owner nonchalantly walks out and yells at the dog and then chastises her 7-8 year old daughter for not watching the dog better and having the shock collar on her. Umm, shouldn't you work a little harder with your mean dog???? How it is your young child's fault? Oh, and to top it off- she didn't say ANYTHING to my mom and I. Not sorry, nothing. Rude. Take the time to work with the dog, especially since it has a bite history.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

I have no qualms about giving an attacking dog a swift kick to get it away from my dog.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

This will sound brutal BUT if ever comes down to a dog attacking Ranger, I know I'd do it. First, unleash your dog if it's a safe area; your dog can either try to get away from the other dog OR defend itself better. If it's not safe (ie lots of traffic), still unleash your dog but quickly make a loop with the handle and wrap it around your dog so you're hanging onto the metal clasp. Swing the metal clasp at the attacking/charging dog's head or face as hard as you can...typing that made me feel slightly nauseaous but I've done it before and I'll do it again if I have to. it's more for diverting a charging dog than one that's already sunk it's teeth into your dog. I've used it before to protect my little border collie against a doberman...one hit and the dobie went screaming away.


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## AmandaSmelser (Mar 22, 2010)

Ranger said:


> Swing the metal clasp at the attacking/charging dog's head or face as hard as you can....


Ranger - I would totally hit myself in the face if I tried that! LoL :doh:

I've found some good sticks. One is a 2 foot by 2 inch piece of broken fence that I'm using while running, and the other is a great 4.5 footer, maybe only 1 inch in diameter that I'm going to use while walking. I hope to never have to actually strike a charging dog with either, but I would if I felt that William or I were in danger. Mostly the sticks should just be used as a barrier if needed and a way for me to feel empowered. Also, the sticks might make another owner think twice about letting their flexi-leashed, leg-biter charge me.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

AmandaSmelser said:


> Ranger - I would totally hit myself in the face if I tried that! LoL :doh:
> 
> I've found some good sticks. One is a 2 foot by 2 inch piece of broken fence that I'm using while running, and the other is a great 4.5 footer, maybe only 1 inch in diameter that I'm going to use while walking. I hope to never have to actually strike a charging dog with either, but I would if I felt that William or I were in danger. Mostly the sticks should just be used as a barrier if needed and a way for me to feel empowered. Also, the sticks might make another owner think twice about letting their flexi-leashed, leg-biter charge me.


Umbrellas work well, too. You can pop it open and use it as a barrier between your dog and the other. It probably wouldn't work for very long, but it can keep them apart and keep stares and snarls from escalating long enough for an owner to get hold of their dog.

And yes, the dog owner stupidity continues for me, too. I'm really getting sick and tired of these nasty, yappy ass little ankle biters in this complex and so is Gunner. He's always been very good about ignoring them, but I think he's getting tired of being challenged every single time we go for a walk and he's starting to react and respond.
These dogs are constantly barking, growling and lunging at us and the owners do absolutely nothing. These women either completely ignore the fact that their dog is acting like a little beast, or they start cooing idiotic baby talk to it. 
One woman, Friday morning, was actually _laughing _as her little Pomeranian was doing its best Cujo impersonation. Gunner finally barked and tried to lunge towards it and this dumb broad was still laughing. I couldn't keep my mouth shut and told her "Yeah, yuck it up sweetheart - you won't be laughing when another dog gets ahold of her because you've allowed her to provoke." Idiot.
I mean, yes - it's ultimately on me to make sure that Gunner doesn't react to these things, but geeze...!


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Gunner needs to do what Ranger did...smack it with his paw. Ranger did that ONCE to a maltese in a pet store (dog wasn't aggressive but was being stupid AND off leash) and now whenever we go there, if the lady is there, she scoops up her dog and leaves. Ranger didn't do it out of aggressiveness - he was trying to play...it was pretty funny.

I feel for ya though. Why people think it's funny when their 15 lb dog acts like a fool is beyond me. At least people with big dogs take them to obedience or try to train them (most of the time). Just because your dog is small is no excuse! Idiots.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Ranger said:


> Gunner needs to do what Ranger did...smack it with his paw. Ranger did that ONCE to a maltese in a pet store (dog wasn't aggressive but was being stupid AND off leash) and now whenever we go there, if the lady is there, she scoops up her dog and leaves. Ranger didn't do it out of aggressiveness - he was trying to play...it was pretty funny.
> 
> I feel for ya though. Why people think it's funny when their 15 lb dog acts like a fool is beyond me. At least people with big dogs take them to obedience or try to train them (most of the time). Just because your dog is small is no excuse! Idiots.


I don't remember if it was this thread or another one, but I remember you posting about Ranger doing that. It cracked me up! 

These little ones that we run into definitely don't want to play though, so I won't let Gunner anywhere near them. Gunner isn't reacting "aggressively", but he's definitely stressed by it. It's getting real old, real fast.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

I can imagine how frustrating it is. You're really stuck between a rock and a hard place. If you do nothing and ignore it, your poor dog gets more and more stressed. If you decide, fair's fair and let them come close to your guy, then your dog might get bitten OR if he teaches the little rat-weasels a lesson, you'll probably get in trouble since you've got the bigger dog. Is there anyone you can talk to or set up a meeting about "expectations in dogs that live in complex" or something? I'm getting frustrated for you and I'm nowhere near there!


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## AcesWild (Nov 29, 2008)

My friend has a small dog who I ADORE but he is sadly under exercised, the owner admits that he is under exercised and it is in fact her fault for many of his behavior issues. In addition to RUNNING off leash, not running away, just running because he never gets to, he can be like a light switch with other dogs (her other two dogs which are even smaller, are AWESOME with Dixon and mostly submit knowing he is 24 lbs bigger)....Fine one minute, and taking chunks of fur out of another dog the next. 

Well we wanted to introduce him and Dixon on neutral ground (so we went for a walk) and as we were going back we let the dogs sniff and get close, so Dixie just sad there looking up at me while this little fluffy dog sniffed him ALL OVER.

Now here is one of my own...that I do...that is not fair to Dixon...

I tell him to leave the cat alone, without fully having taught him "leave it" and distinguishing fully between leave it and wait (leave it means you never get it!). The cat is a better trainer in that area, a swat and hiss is much more effective than me going "no sir!"

However Dixon, Moxie and I just got here 6 days ago so I think we are making HUGE progress!!


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Ranger said:


> I can imagine how frustrating it is. You're really stuck between a rock and a hard place. If you do nothing and ignore it, your poor dog gets more and more stressed. If you decide, fair's fair and let them come close to your guy, then your dog might get bitten OR if he teaches the little rat-weasels a lesson, you'll probably get in trouble since you've got the bigger dog. Is there anyone you can talk to or set up a meeting about "expectations in dogs that live in complex" or something? I'm getting frustrated for you and I'm nowhere near there!


You know, that's a very good idea. I should talk to our property manager and see if she'd be willing to put something together. Even if it's just some kind of flyer or handout, outlining basic doggie etiquette, do's and don'ts, that kind of thing... and require the dog-owning residents to read and sign it. I'm afraid that most people would just blow it off, but if they know that management is watching, maybe they'll take at least some of it to heart. 
Something has to give around here, that's for sure. It's just getting ridiculous and will only get worse as the weather warms up. There are a LOT of dogs here, most are not trained, some are let off-leash... I'm really surprised that there haven't been big problems yet.


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