# Am I Crazy???



## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

That's a ton of coat and a ton of bone for a 10 month old dog. 

Just from these photos, I'd say he looks show-worthy. Of course, I'd need to put my hands on him and see him move, but from these photos it looks like if he were groomed and shown competently that he looks like he belongs in the ring. You'd be competing in the same class against one of my puppies who is being shown by his owner here in SoCal, and I think you could do well against that puppy. I say go for it.

But yes, you're crazy. Welcome to the club! 

Beautiful boy. Who is his breeder?


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Come! Join us! If you want a friendly face and I'm at the show I'm more than happy to encourage you.  I'm a total newb so not very helpful but I'm cheer you on!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

He looks like a sweetie. <:

It looks like he's a good sized boy and would definitely get the judge's attention in a good way - if you do all the grooming you need to + he moves nice? His natural (I assume that's his natural) stack looks pretty good. He sets his feet well under him and there's no obvious signs of issues from the side. From the front, you would need to fix his feet. He also still needs to fill out a little, viewing from the front - but he looks like a nice boy with a lot of potential.

I agree - I don't see any reason why you shouldn't show him. Very least the biggest thing is you will learn a ton along the way. There's a lot of stuff I thought I knew about BEFORE I started showing and it's a little embarrassing how little I actually knew prior to spending a lot of time handling/showing my dog myself! 

There are grooming things I see immediately with the top picture. Areas I'm looking at are over his rear, rear angle (hip to knee to hock angle), ears/neck and lesser extent front. Somebody experienced with showing this breed and more importantly knows how to groom a dog like him (with lots of coat), would be great learning hands on from.

Handling - strongly suggest taking handling classes with a pro handler who knows this breed. Am saying that because I've been taking handling classes from a golden handler for the past 2 years (well, skip last year for most part), and have learned way more under her than I did from various other folks teaching these classes. I used to LOATHE handling classes fwiw (basically spending an hour waiting your turn, and being unable to move your dog out because the little dog people don't move fast enough - and no, in AKC you would never run BEHIND little dogs LOL!) The person I take classes from currently has us moving and doing different exercises almost the entire time so neither you or your dog get bored. <= I hope you find somebody like that!

Whether you pay a handler to show for you - or you do it yourself, there is a lot of initial expense. That's the handling classes, paying somebody else to groom your dog prior to shows, building up supplies (weird expense this year vs other years is people investing in mobile generators).

It's a lot - but if you stick to it, there is much to learn. Whether you keep showing or not, there's a ton to learn, particularly about this breed. It's developing a better eye not just for your own dog (learning to be more critical and unbiased), but also being able to "see" other dogs better. I wish more people in this breed would give it a try.

Dog shows have a pretty negative reputation for being "ooooh scary" with people who are in their own club and exclusive and winning everything because of who they are, etc.... but that is not always the case.


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## Jennyoarmstrong (Jul 18, 2020)

DanaRuns said:


> That's a ton of coat and a ton of bone for a 10 month old dog.
> 
> Just from these photos, I'd say he looks show-worthy. Of course, I'd need to put my hands on him and see him move, but from these photos it looks like if he were groomed and shown competently that he looks like he belongs in the ring. You'd be competing in the same class against one of my puppies who is being shown by his owner here in SoCal, and I think you could do well against that puppy. I say go for it.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for the feedback! This is his pedigree: Pedigree: Chubby ex Nike

I live near Michelle, the stud owner and we are planning to set up a meeting this week to see how he moves. One potential issue is that he appears to have a wry bite at the moment. All his teeth are there and molars all line up, just not sure if that would factor in? I'm usually at most local shows here I SoCal for my Newf Club but will now start going for the Goldens too! Looking forward to meeting you and your dogs sometime soon


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## Jennyoarmstrong (Jul 18, 2020)

Brave said:


> Come! Join us! If you want a friendly face and I'm at the show I'm more than happy to encourage you.  I'm a total newb so not very helpful but I'm cheer you on!


Thank you so much! One of my favorite things from showing my Newf was all the new friends I made and people I got to know. I truly enjoy "nerving out" on dogs for the day/weekend with fellow dog lovers <3


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## Jennyoarmstrong (Jul 18, 2020)

Megora said:


> He looks like a sweetie. <:
> 
> It looks like he's a good sized boy and would definitely get the judge's attention in a good way - if you do all the grooming you need to + he moves nice? His natural (I assume that's his natural) stack looks pretty good. He sets his feet well under him and there's no obvious signs of issues from the side. From the front, you would need to fix his feet. He also still needs to fill out a little, viewing from the front - but he looks like a nice boy with a lot of potential.
> 
> ...



I really appreciate your reply! He is a very sweet boy, already has all his CGC, CGCU, CGCA tests done. At the very least he will be an amazing Therapy Dog. I will take your advice and find a good Golden groomer. I'm in Orange County and pretty sure there's at least one good Golden handler that might be offering handling classes. I've got most of the grooming supplies from my Newfie, but I'm sure there are Golden specific things I still need.

I think you all have talked me into at least giving it a try if all works out wit his movement and learning what I need to do on my end.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Jennyoarmstrong said:


> One potential issue is that he appears to have a wry bite at the moment. All his teeth are there and molars all line up, just not sure if that would factor in?


Well, that could certainly be an issue. I can see in the photos that he has an undershot lower jaw. A wry bite is a lateral issue, though, right?

Some bite issues can be a disqualification. Here's what the breed standard has to say:

*Teeth* — scissors bite, in which the outer side of the lower incisors touches the inner side of the upper incisors. Undershot or overshot bite is a disqualification. Misalignment of teeth (irregular placement of incisors) or a level bite (incisors meet each other edge to edge) is undesirable, but not to be confused with undershot or overshot. Full dentition. Obvious gaps are serious faults.


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## Ffcmm (May 4, 2016)

can you post a photo of his bite? He looks very handsome and it sounds like it will be fun for both of you to get into the ring together


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## Jennyoarmstrong (Jul 18, 2020)

Ffcmm said:


> can you post a photo of his bite? He looks very handsome and it sounds like it will be fun for both of you to get into the ring together



Here are a few pics from this morning. Definitely a wonky bite (he's also got one bonus incisor) with his right upper canine (left side of pic) angled "out" more than down. His "show side" canines are good but still has a bit of an overbite. Would that automatically disqualify him? Ay chance his lower jaw will grow anymore? 

He had a mouth injury as a pup with playing tug o war with another dog. Not sure if that contributed to the upper right canine coming in weird. I took him to a canine dental specialist that said it was nothing to worry about as all his teeth lined up minus that upper/lower canine on the right side and the other teeth do not get I the way of each other or the gums.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Ouch....  

Have you had a dentist look at that? If he were 5-6 months might be different, but 10 months.... I don't think bites change that much other than dropped incisors "sinking" a little.... I hope I'm wrong. 

If he were my dog - I'd have him in to a dentist.


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## Jennyoarmstrong (Jul 18, 2020)

Megora said:


> Ouch....
> 
> Have you had a dentist look at that? If he were 5-6 months might be different, but 10 months.... I don't think bites change that much other than dropped incisors "sinking" a little.... I hope I'm wrong.
> 
> If he were my dog - I'd have him in to a dentist.



I did take him at about 7 months old. Dr. advised he could do ortho work or cut down the upper right canine (which is impeding lower canine to move out) but he stated if it were his dog he would just leave it be as it is mainly cosmetic and not causing any damage to his mouth. 

It's a bummer if his bite is all that keeps him from being shown as I think to my novice eye he looks really nice on the outside. But as my breeder has said, it takes a lot of things to come together to make a good show dog. I completely understand though. Just don't want to go thru all the work to get him ready to show to then find out he would be disqualified. I really appreciate all the feedback I've been getting from everyone here.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

I don't want to discourage you, but I would be afraid that bite would be a DQ, which of course is permanent.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Jennyoarmstrong said:


> I did take him at about 7 months old. Dr. advised he could do ortho work or cut down the upper right canine (which is impeding lower canine to move out) but he stated if it were his dog he would just leave it be as it is mainly cosmetic and not causing any damage to his mouth.


I was thinking looking at the picture that there were at least 3-4 teeth that could be hitting on each other when he's eating. Hope that's not the case.  

How beautiful a dog he is - really stinks that he has a bite like that.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Can you take side and front photos with his mouth completely closed? No tongue in between his teeth. I'm with Dana, the side view photo looks like a DQ for overbite, but it could just be a weird angle plus his mouth not being completely closed. That's what I hope the case is any way. 

Otherwise, from your photos, he looks like a really nice dog and a fairly easy finish assuming he is also a good mover.


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## Ffcmm (May 4, 2016)

Ah it does look like an overbite which is DQ vs something like a serious fault for missing premolars which might be easier to ‘hide’ and still worth trying. Like @ArkansasGold mention, could you take another pic with the tongue out of the way?

Regardless you can still take handling classes with him to practice and that might be fun for you both!


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## Jessjack (Aug 11, 2019)

Jennyoarmstrong said:


> I did take him at about 7 months old. Dr. advised he could do ortho work or cut down the upper right canine (which is impeding lower canine to move out) but he stated if it were his dog he would just leave it be as it is mainly cosmetic and not causing any damage to his mouth.
> 
> It's a bummer if his bite is all that keeps him from being shown as I think to my novice eye he looks really nice on the outside. But as my breeder has said, it takes a lot of things to come together to make a good show dog. I completely understand though. Just don't want to go thru all the work to get him ready to show to then find out he would be disqualified. I really appreciate all the feedback I've been getting from everyone here.


Sorry but AKC rules for conformation do not allow for any alterations to the dog, and this would include altering of the bite by surgery or braces. Incorrect bites are inheritable and are serious problems since our dogs were developed as retrievers of game. He is a beautiful dog and you should be very proud of him. Have you considered other AKC events, such as Obedience or Agility? Best of luck to you.


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## Jennyoarmstrong (Jul 18, 2020)

Jessjack said:


> Sorry but AKC rules for conformation do not allow for any alterations to the dog, and this would include altering of the bite by surgery or braces. Incorrect bites are inheritable and are serious problems since our dogs were developed as retrievers of game. He is a beautiful dog and you should be very proud of him. Have you considered other AKC events, such as Obedience or Agility? Best of luck to you.



Yes, that is my understanding as well which is why I never considered it. He has an amazing temperament and will make a wonderful therapy dog, following in his Newfoundland brother's footsteps. He would have been fun to show but I guess his teeth probably saved me a few thousand $$


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## Jennyoarmstrong (Jul 18, 2020)

ArkansasGold said:


> Can you take side and front photos with his mouth completely closed? No tongue in between his teeth. I'm with Dana, the side view photo looks like a DQ for overbite, but it could just be a weird angle plus his mouth not being completely closed. That's what I hope the case is any way.
> 
> Otherwise, from your photos, he looks like a really nice dog and a fairly easy finish assuming he is also a good mover.



I'll try to get some more pics today with his tongue out of the way (He has a big fat tongue!) I don't think there's any way around it though I will hope for a miracle that in the next 6-12 months something changes, but not holding my breath. I really appreciate all the feedback from everyone!!


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## Lovin'Goldens (Feb 17, 2021)

Either way he is very handsome.


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