# Prey Drive: HELP MEEEEEEEEE



## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Have you ever worked with a clicker before?


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## RedWoofs (Apr 19, 2008)

jackie_hubert said:


> Have you ever worked with a clicker before?


No i have not. 

I have been fortunate enough to have adopted older dogs with nice manners, or at least managable issues, and it's been a good 27 years since I took a puppy to obedience class.

I don't have the foggiest idea how to proceed but I know we need to enroll somewhere soon!


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Where are you located, maybe the board members will know of trainers to recommend in your area.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*RedWoofs*

RedWoofs

I just googled Training for dogs with high prey drive and came up with all of this info
Google

**I am thinking your vet might know of some training and I don't know how you feel about asking Carol.


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## Hunter'sMom (Sep 5, 2011)

I have a hound mix with an extreme prey drive, and I can say that a Gentle Leader was a super saving grace while we worked to train out of chasing cats and squirrels on walks. Especially with your dog's heartworm treatment (I saw the other thread), it might help keep him from getting too hyper on walks. If he can't stand the Gentle Leader, a no-pull harness might work. Have faith and patience, it is possible to manage high prey drive!


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*bumping*

bumping up for more suggestions and help!!


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

To keep him, you and any neighborhood cats (and squirrels I presume) safe I would also advise some form of no-pull device. I would go with a no-pull/easy-walk harness (ask at the pet supply store) over one of the Gentle Leader/Halti head collars since the head collars take quite some getting used to, and for a dog with no concept of leash you might find him turning into bucking bronco with a head collar. But you could try both. If you do go with the headcollar introduce it very gradually with lots of treats and encouragement. 

Prey drive is pretty set in a dog so I wouldn't expect to eradicate his chasing instinct, but you can teach him when it's okay to chase (like with toys, etc) and when not, with a lot of work.

I would do clicker training. Google clicker training and you'll learn very quickly what it is. And if he's at all motivated you'll find that he will learn to love the clicker. 

Teach him that when he's on leash his job is to go where you go. 




Then after a week or more, when he's become good at this,try to incorporate some rapid movement (rag on a stick), move them closer and closer over time. If he's distracted by the movement move it further away. 

Down the road he should at least be able to be manageable on leash around cats and squirrels and such.

You can also teach a solid leave it by clicking at the slightest look in you direction. Use high value rewards like chicken. Never use the command on real-time unless you know he will leave it, lest it become meaningless.

Good luck!


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

I like the Gentle Leader but began Jaro with it very early. It does work well and I am old with bad knees and can't have a big dog pulling me down. But as Jackie says some dogs take some getting used to it. The DVD that comes with it is very helpful, though. I used a GL on my previous Golden who was BIG, too, but not until after I had tried slip chains, prongs and others. That was 10 years ago when people never even heard of GL and would ask if your dog was muzzled. Proper fit is important on GL and no pull harnesses so you might want to get one through a trainer who knows how to fit them. I know here some training places sell different types so they can help you choose what is best for you and your dog. 
Never go for a walk without lots of high value treats to keep him trained on you.


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## spruce (Mar 13, 2008)

I missed any thread about your new dog! congrats!! I'm guessing you will enjoy this challenge!


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## GinnyinPA (Oct 31, 2010)

Congratulations on your new pup. I remember that you were looking for an older rescue. Where did you get this one?

Ben has a high prey drive as well. He has learned to walk very well on leash normally - but he loves to chase rabbits, squirrels, etc. Our neighborhood has a lot of wildlife, especially midsummer. We usually walk him with a prong collar. It stops him from pulling us off our feet as he has done a few times before we started to use it. He'll still pull to go after nearby rabbits etc. -- the instinct is strong -- but he stops much sooner and he's learned not to try to chase after wildlife that is farther away. I feel much more in control and safer. We are also working at rewarding him when he passes something and doesn't chase after it. If you can catch your dog's attention and get him to focus on you instead of the rabbit, you can lead him past the temptation. But that means you have to see it first - which isn't always easy to do.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Duncan*

bumping up for more suggestions for Duncan!

Ken and I have to use a prong collar on Tonka when we walk both Tonka and Tucker as Tonka was pulling SO MUCH it was a feat to try to stay on our feet.
It works like a charm-now we actually enjoy going on a walk.


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky (Feb 22, 2011)

Hi There~ Here are some suggestions.......

Indoors, without distractions, spend some time training, with a clicker, these two commands:

"Look At Me" & "Leave It" 

Also, make sure you clicker/treat train him on his name too. 

"Look At Me" or "( Dogs Name)".....Dog looks at you click at the instant he looks at you and treat. Practice over and over for short periods throughout the day, for many days until he gets it.

"Leave It"....with color on, start with putting dog in sit/stay. (If you haven't trained this yet...no worries, then just grab ahold of his collar) Set something out in front of him and at the same time say "Leave It". Within a short time of leaving it, click and treat with a DIFFERENT TREAT. Then pick up the treat on the floor (if that's what you used) and hand feed that treat. You can use this technique with toys, towels, paper....ANYTHING. (you just won't pick it up and give him certain stuff after treating, of course) Practice this over and over for short periods throughout the day, for many days until he gets it.

Once he has some success without distractions, then take him somewhere for mild distractions...building up distractions over time. 

In the mean time, you'll need to walk him. Keep those super, super yummy treats handy on all walks. (buy a fanny pack if you have to) Perhaps get a gentle leader or prong collar as others have suggested. Be super aware of what is going on in your dogs environment while out on walks and when you sense something is going to trigger him -- BEFORE it does (hopefully) get his attention on you with "Dog's Name" or "Look At Me (or both). Treat. If he starts to get worked up, say "uh-uh" firmly, jerk his leash and say "Leave It".

These will have to be repeated as you move past the object of prey drive kick-in. Biggest thing is to catch his attention, and re- catch it each time he gets ramped up AND to have super yummy treats to keep him focused on you--where the good stuff is. :

Whew! I'm tired out just writing this. hahahaha! Good Luck!


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## RedWoofs (Apr 19, 2008)

mylissyk said:


> Where are you located, maybe the board members will know of trainers to recommend in your area.


Maryland. Harford county/baltimore county areas


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*RedWoofs*

RedWoofs

In one of Duncan's Threads someone who lives In Baltimore, MD and goes to training posted. Will try to find.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*RedWoofs*

Did a search on here and copied this from another thread called Obedience, in Washington Area

There are a lot of great places to train in the DC area. However, finding weekend classes is going to be difficult -- most of the good trainers are off competing with their dogs on the weekends. I'm more familiar with the Virginia side of things, and the agility trainers than the obedience trainers.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...ience-agility-training-facility-md-va-wv.html

Some options (in no particular order):
WOOFS, Arlington, VA
The Animals' House, Sterling, VA
A Click Above, Leesburg, VA
Doggy Do Right, Leesburg, VA
Dulles Gateway Obedience Training Club, Various locations in Western Fairfax and Loudoun County
Dog Day Afternoon, Leesburg, VA
Fairfax County Parks and Recreation department, Various Parks in FFX County
Capital Dog Training Club, Silver Spring, MD
Blue Ridge Dog Training Club, Winchester, VA
Catoctin Kennel Club, Point of Rocks, MD
Kamp Kitty, Falling Waters, WV
Mattaponi Kennel Club, Manassas, VA
Oriole Dog Training Club, Baltimore, MD
Mountain View Dog Training, Amissville VA
Pup 'n Iron, Fredericksburg, VA
Breakaway Action Dogs, Frederick, MD

I know either an instructor or someone who trains with all these places so if you're looking for more info, you can pm me.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

How are things going?


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*RedWoofs*

RedWoofs

Worried we haven't heard how things are going with Duncan!


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## RedWoofs (Apr 19, 2008)

Ian'sgran said:


> Never go for a walk without lots of high value treats to keep him trained on you.


I've never met a GR so NOT motivated by food! treats and food seem to mean little to him. baffling.
Or maybe a side effect of him being recently adopted and not settled? Or of his heartworm treatment?


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## RedWoofs (Apr 19, 2008)

spruce said:


> I missed any thread about your new dog! congrats!! I'm guessing you will enjoy this challenge!


D'ya know I haven't even had a chance to announce it? we sorta hit the ground running .... after squirrels .... at high speed and strength....up trees, around the house for the cat, into the study which holds the hamster cage ...............................................


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## RedWoofs (Apr 19, 2008)

GinnyinPA said:


> Congratulations on your new pup. I remember that you were looking for an older rescue. Where did you get this one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## RedWoofs (Apr 19, 2008)

Karen519 said:


> bumping up for more suggestions for Duncan!
> 
> Ken and I have to use a prong collar on Tonka when we walk both Tonka and Tucker as Tonka was pulling SO MUCH it was a feat to try to stay on our feet.
> It works like a charm-now we actually enjoy going on a walk.


are prong collars very painful? are there different ones? i've never used one


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Just have to comment and say your thread title made me giggle... I watched the movie Bee Movie last night and there's a part where he goes "HELP MEEEEEEEE" and it's all slowed down and sounds funny... this reminded me of it.

It's around 53 seconds in. LOL.


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## RedWoofs (Apr 19, 2008)

Karen519 said:


> Did a search on here and copied this from another thread called Obedience, in Washington Area
> 
> There are a lot of great places to train in the DC area. However, finding weekend classes is going to be difficult -- most of the good trainers are off competing with their dogs on the weekends. I'm more familiar with the Virginia side of things, and the agility trainers than the obedience trainers.
> 
> ...


I'm in Glen Arm, MD which is more near PA than DC


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Congratulations on your new pup, and my sympathies just a little. My rescued boy Finn has a high prey drive for anything that moves and we have lots of wildlife in my area. He's still a work in progress, but my arms stay firmly attached to my shoulders these days. I started with a prong collar (and no, they do not hurt, but when used properly, they're effective at getting the dog's attention) on every walk. At the same time, I taught "leave it" using treats in the house, in the yard, on the street. Keep looking for that yummy treat that will motivate him. I wanted to be certain that he understood that command in a huge variety of circumstances. I used the prong for almost a year. Now he walks well on a flat collar, but I must keep my eyes on my surroundings when we walk. One "leave it" and a bunny could cross his path two feet in front of us and I still get to keep my arm!!!! Good luck and let us know how it's going


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## RedWoofs (Apr 19, 2008)

Karen519 said:


> RedWoofs
> 
> Worried we haven't heard how things are going with Duncan!


HELLO!! Sorry I fell off the computer but I'm back! and my arm has not been dislocated and my cat is still alive!!

Soooooo, I've been offline not only b/c my human child is sick but b/c I've been giving Duncan 110%.
Here's a summary of how it's going:

My vet met Duncan for the first time. Duncan is indeed about 5/6 years old. He is 101 lbs. This Thursday Duncan has to go in to the vet, be there all day, for his next stage of Heartworm Treatment. i discussed all of our concerns with my vet who said until Duncan is done with his heartworm treatment he is not cleared for training. He's to be on restricted exercise.

Well, it's been interesting trying to meet that goal! Duncan is better at walking on a leash. At least when no creatures are there. So that is clearly an improvement. Squirrels still result in him trying to climb a tree and me doing my impersonation of a kite. Deer make him want to vault our split rail fence but he's on a leash so not an option. Kitties are now viewed as marvelous fun. Not so much I'm going to kill you but rather I must have you and play with you. We had Duncan gated into 1 room, and when we moved about or up to bed we'd leash him to walk up. Well really he was more agitated with that then just being, so in order to keep his heart rate down, we've allowed him a greater amount of the house. He can now do 3 rooms. And the cat comes in frequently. To show it's his house. The symphony of my day is cat growls. When the cat is near, Duncan follows him. And I mean follows. Gets his nose on the cats bottom sort of follow. No snapping at him. Did step on the cat once. Got a good whack from Hamish for that one. Duncan wants to please, and I get the feeling he's doing his best to subdue his natural desires and tendencies. The phrase "leave it" does actually result in him turning his head to us and once or twice coming to us. He seems to know his new name now which helps.

He drinks a lot. Loves toys. isn't reliable about pooing OUTSIDE, had a few accidents in the house.He is smart. He is loving. he is BIG 

Bless Kimberly for the "leave it" phrase. There is marked improvement with that.

So all in all, we're simply holding steady until Thursday when he has to go the vet for his heartworm treatment. I feel bad for him since I fear he will worry he's being abandoned again, or caged again, or some such. Any suggestions for how best to help on Thursday?

Karen, thank you for that list of trainers. I'm ok with a during the week/during school hours time, not just a weekend time. I'm a work at home mother.

THANK YOU ALL FOR HELPING MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Sarah


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## RedWoofs (Apr 19, 2008)

Finn's Fan said:


> Congratulations on your new pup, and my sympathies just a little. My rescued boy Finn has a high prey drive for anything that moves and we have lots of wildlife in my area. He's still a work in progress, but my arms stay firmly attached to my shoulders these days. I started with a prong collar (and no, they do not hurt, but when used properly, they're effective at getting the dog's attention) on every walk. At the same time, I taught "leave it" using treats in the house, in the yard, on the street. Keep looking for that yummy treat that will motivate him. I wanted to be certain that he understood that command in a huge variety of circumstances. I used the prong for almost a year. Now he walks well on a flat collar, but I must keep my eyes on my surroundings when we walk. One "leave it" and a bunny could cross his path two feet in front of us and I still get to keep my arm!!!! Good luck and let us know how it's going


Can Duncan keep his flat collar on 24/7 and use the prong one when walking? Would that work?


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## RedWoofs (Apr 19, 2008)

Mssjnnfer said:


> Just have to comment and say your thread title made me giggle... I watched the movie Bee Movie last night and there's a part where he goes "HELP MEEEEEEEE" and it's all slowed down and sounds funny... this reminded me of it.
> 
> It's around 53 seconds in. LOL.


That's so funny!!!! that's JUST how i said it in my head!!!!!!!!!!
and about what I sound like as I fly behind him like a Kite


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## GinnyinPA (Oct 31, 2010)

We tried using the flat collar and the prong together but the prong got twisted with the flat and was much less effective.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

What a terrific thread with amazing advice and some early success already! 

I don't have much to add except that low-key leash training indoors might OK if you clear it with your vet. It's always good to run through good habits in a low- or no-distraction area. Every fifty solid repetitions of a behavior without a blown command will mean another level of control outdoors.

It's OK that he's not food motivated. I've trained a couple of Goldens who really could care less about treats, and the trick is finding something else that he loves. If he has a high prey drive, he'll probably love games in which you bounce around or shuffle your feet. He may also find toys and tugging highly motivating. That kind of stuff probably isn't OK until the heartworm treatment is done, but it's good to keep in mind for the future.

There are also lots of dogs who won't pay attention to treats as a lure or bribe but will still take them as a reward. Since luring and bribing should be avoided anyway (except in a handful of situations), you still may be able to use treats as one of your reinforcers.

One other thing: it sounds like he could benefit a lot from losing a little weight. Breed standard for male Goldens is 65-75 pounds. It may be that he's a big tall and big framed, but even so, he probably should come down quite a bit. It'll improve his longevity significantly and delay the onset of many geriatric conditions.

Good luck! It sounds like you're enjoying him, warts and all, already.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*RedWoofs*

RedWoofs

Tonka has a Premier Nylon Collar (Like a choke collar that is nylong) and he always has that on. We just put the prong collar on for walks. They say that it is impt. that you fit it properly, so you probably want to have someone at your pet store, or vet, put it on him. I don't think it Hurts, but is is like a MIRACLE in stopping Tonka from pulling.

http://www.google.com/products/cata...ZiqKTpHcFsrKsQKv_anLDw&sqi=2&ved=0CHkQ8gIwAQ#


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## RedWoofs (Apr 19, 2008)

tippykayak said:


> One other thing: it sounds like he could benefit a lot from losing a little weight. Breed standard for male Goldens is 65-75 pounds. It may be that he's a big tall and big framed, but even so, he probably should come down quite a bit. It'll improve his longevity significantly and delay the onset of many geriatric conditions.
> 
> Good luck! It sounds like you're enjoying him, warts and all, already.


We ARE enjoying him, warts and all 
And no surprisingly he's not overweight at all. He's just HUGE. He looks 100% golden retriever but he's more the size of a great pyranees. Even my vet was floored he's so big and muscular and not actually fat at that weight. I've had lots of big goldens before, but he's the biggest. It's like having a golden polar bear!!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

That is really, really hard to believe, unless he's not pure Golden. To be 35% over standard without being fat is pretty extreme. But I'm not there with my hands on the dog, and I hesitate to overrule a vet.


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## RedWoofs (Apr 19, 2008)

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## RedWoofs (Apr 19, 2008)

tippykayak said:


> That is really, really hard to believe, unless he's not pure Golden. To be 35% over standard without being fat is pretty extreme. But I'm not there with my hands on the dog, and I hesitate to overrule a vet.


I totally and utterly agree with you. I've only ever seen 1 bigger than this. I'm trying to post his photos but don't seem to be doing it correctly :no:


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## RedWoofs (Apr 19, 2008)

I can't figure out how to get them to show up here in a thread, but I *think* i managed to upload them to an album called Duncan under my profile. Do you know how to find that? If so you can see him there


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## RedWoofs (Apr 19, 2008)




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## RedWoofs (Apr 19, 2008)




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## RedWoofs (Apr 19, 2008)




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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

He's a cutie!

Looking is pretty unreliable, so again, take what I saw with a grain of salt, but he does look a little heavy to me in that picture from the side. Bear in mind that my eye is skewed towards dogs on the lean side of ideal, because I've read so much research that says being even slightly over ideal can shorten their lives and hasten the onset of geriatric disease, so that's how I keep my dogs. Actually, you can see pretty well in my sig, because the dogs are caked with mud and seawater, so their coats aren't getting in the way. That's on the lean side of ideal, so it's OK for a dog to be a little bit heavier than that, but not much.

About three or four inches out from the spine, you should be able to feel his ribs with only light pressure. On the top of his hips, there should be a fat pad, but only a moderate one. The hip bones should be easy to delineate with your hands; it shouldn't feel like they're poking through fat. If you run your hands down the higher part of his sides, he should come in noticeably behind the ribs. Those are some good hands-on measurements to feel for an appropriate amount of fat.


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## RedWoofs (Apr 19, 2008)

Oooh thank you! great descriptions. I shall now grope the dog


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I didn't read the entire thread so forgive me if this has been suggested. 

Find an outlet also for the energy. Something like agility or field training. Agility is a great team work sport, the dog does need to listen so it does require "obedience" but then he gets to run and jump and expend some energy. 

I understand you need to get some control first but seriously look into something like that for an outlet. I tell you I assist a puppy agility class, we get a lot of feeble owners with HIGH energy/drive dogs. By the end of the hour, both handlers and dogs are exhausted, and these are not running yet, just learning.


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## rockchalkbettie (Jul 29, 2009)

My 3 year old golden is extremely prey driven as well, she is getting confused about the difference between a squirrel and a small dog, I know how you feel. We are about to get professional training, but haven't decided if we want to go with one that uses shock collars or not. good luck!


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