# Cooked Food vs. Kibble



## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

I love kibble. And will always recommend good kibble (I personally use Royal Canin for my golden). However, BalanceIt is regularly recommended by veterinary nutritionists if somebody wants to balance their home made pet food.


----------



## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

I feed kibble. 90 pounds is a lot for a golden retriever!


----------



## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

DevWind said:


> 90 pounds is a lot for a golden retriever!


Explains the low energy.


----------



## Hildae (Aug 15, 2012)

Happydogmom said:


> Hi! I am very curious what other Golden parents think about dog food and which option supports a long and healthy life. My 2 year old 90 pound boy has been on Royal Canine for most of his life as recommended by his vet. However he is very low energy and I have been told by a few people now that kibble is not as nutritious as home cooked meals. I tried switching him to a healthier kibble called Orijen but even with transitioning him to it from a bland diet it causes diarrhea. I have been looking on the balance it website but am a little confused on how to use it and figure out a daily meal plan for him and have also been considering Dr. Harvey's. Would love some advice or even how to use the balance it website to figure it all out. Or if you think kibble is still better. I would really love my Owsley to live in to his teen years and want to make sure he is getting all the nutrients he needs.


You switched from a good food, to a food that has been highly implicated in causing heart disease in dogs. Go back to the RC.


----------



## Happydogmom (11 mo ago)

Hildae said:


> You switched from a good food, to a food that has been highly implicated in causing heart disease in dogs. Go back to the RC.


Luckily I have only given it to him 3 times and not even full portions. Thanks for the advice. I will be switching back to Royal Canin.


----------



## Happydogmom (11 mo ago)

SRW said:


> Explains the low energy.


Do you think I should be giving less food? I was already doing less than the bag said but now worried he is too heavy.


----------



## Oceanside (Mar 29, 2021)

Happydogmom said:


> Do you think I should be giving less food? I was already doing less than the bag said but now worried he is too heavy.


Definitely. The bag instructions really aren’t useful at all, you have to go by feel. Ribs should be very easily felt, just not visible to the eye. Nice taper around the waist. Weight and body condition are critical for longevity.


----------



## FurdogDad (Mar 30, 2021)

Tagrenine said:


> I love kibble. And will always recommend good kibble (I personally use Royal Canin for my golden). However, BalanceIt is regularly recommended by veterinary nutritionists if somebody wants to balance their home made pet food.


I prefer my wife's cooking .....the dogs don't seem to mind kibble though.....and they are partial to bacon as well.....


----------



## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Happydogmom said:


> Do you think I should be giving less food? I was already doing less than the bag said but now worried he is too heavy.


Probably, 90 pounds is huge for a golden.
Post a few pictures of him you want opinions on his weight.


----------



## Rain438 (11 mo ago)

Switching mine off of kibble to a gently cooked food seems to have helped with his itchiness/allergies and super sensitive stomach. If your pup is doing well on Royal Canin though, then probably no reason to change!


----------



## iPappy (Nov 30, 2021)

I've had some boarding and/or grooming clients ask about cooking for their dogs, and many of them have thought that a bunch of rice with some canned chicken or tuna and some chunked up carrots or green beans is good enough for a long term diet. It's not.

There are some good pre-mixes on the market, all you do is re-hydrate the mix and add the protein (and, in some case, an oil like fish oil) and you're set. They can be pricey but since they're dehydrated, they go a longer way than it might look. I usually recommend these instead of full blown home cooking for most people who are new to it. 
Just so you know, I had a dog (not a Golden) for 13 years. He ate an *organic* raw diet (I was very picky about where I got his ingredients), and I minimized vaccines and minimized pest control based on his risk factor and where I live. He still developed cancer, and succumbed to it last week. I have no idea why he got this particular (aggressive and malignant) cancer, but if food were the main factor in keeping him happy and healthy, he would still be here. 😔

Do your best, and remember there's more to a long, happy life than diet, such as genetics, a healthy weight, exercise, training (mental exercise) and tons of love from you, his person.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

So..... out of the box comment here.

First, I don't give a darn what kibble people feed their dogs. As long as it's not grocery brand kibble like kibbles and bits. 

90 pounds is very heavy for a 2 year old golden retriever and it's a warning sign of what will happen if you do not get a good handle on your dog's health. At age 2 many male goldens should be somewhere between 68 pounds and 75 pounds. These are dogs that are still filling out and even if they have a lot of bone, they still tend to be in the best shape of their life. As they get closer to middle age, they do gain weight... many dogs. 

Factors that could affect weight would be the amount of food they are fed.... and also the dog's actual health. If he's not active, I would probably get a peek at hips/elbows. A slower moving dog who doesn't want to run around like crazy at age 2 could be a dog that has a physical reason to be self-restricting his exercise.

Then the other thing is many golden retrievers who are very typical dogs owned by the average person with a sedentary lifestyle (meaning these dogs are not going somewhere 1-2 days a week for training or serious exercise that works their muscles and stamina) are being fed the amount of food designed for those other dogs.

My dogs are fairly active, but seriously - if I fed them more than 2 cups per day, they would be HUGE.

3+ cups of kibble per day is too much food for most dogs.

If you need to get weight off (and 90 pounds says you do) - then some combination of green beans and kibble does work. And many people feed some combination of real food and kibble.


----------



## Ffcmm (May 4, 2016)

RC is a good brand of kibble to feed, orijen is sometimes too ‘rich’ this held true for my own dogs when I switched them to it, their poop was not good at all. 

Best to switch back to it if he was doing well on RC. I agree his Low energy is probably due to him being overweight…


----------



## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

When you cut back your dog’s food, and I hope you do, do it gradually. He will be hungry because he’s used to eating more.

Just by way of comparison, my Golden is on Purina Pro Plan Sport and has three cups a day. He is very active. He weighs 66lbs. He also gets plenty of treats. My last Golden could only eat two cups of food a day. He was much less active, but walked/played plenty, and weighed 72lbs. 

As you decrease your dog’s food and he loses some weight, he will probably want to move around more. He needs to get plenty of exercise.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Oh and one more thing. I’m probably neurotic, but my dogs get monthly weigh ins at the vet. Because sometimes they gain weight very quickly and because you see your dog all the time you don’t realize they weigh like 10-20 more pounds than you thought. 😊


----------



## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

]


Megora said:


> Oh and one more thing. I’m probably neurotic, but my dogs get monthly weigh ins at the vet. Because sometimes they gain weight very quickly and because you see your dog all the time you don’t realize they weigh like 10-20 more pounds than you thought. 😊


Nah. That’s not neurotic. I bought a scale like the vet has and weigh my dogs every two weeks. That’s neurotic. 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Oceanside (Mar 29, 2021)

I have neither weighed myself nor my dog in the past year, if anyone was wondering. Weight is a very overrated metric.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Oceanside said:


> I have neither weighed myself nor my dog in the past year, if anyone was wondering. Weight is a very overrated metric.


I was going to say I was suspicious when I saw that shoe next to the scale.... 

My vet has a scale in the waiting room + I'm usually running in to pick up heartguard every month. Glee has stayed right around 68 pounds. Jovi is still up around 75 pounds and needs to come back down.


----------



## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

I have to submit a puppy weight every month with my progress reports. Some of us have rules to follow.


----------



## casedacca22 (4 mo ago)

SRW said:


> Explains the low energy.


Try Hills Diet weight management food. It's a chicken based food. My 11 and a half year old loves it and has lost weight on it. He acts like a puppy!


----------



## Zerpersande (9 mo ago)

SRW said:


> Explains the low energy.


I’ll second that. High weight equals low energy.
Well, for me. It’s easier to keep a dog at a good weight than to do it for myself.


----------



## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

I feed raw. When you cook, you still have to balance with synthetic vitamins. Feeding foods that provide those vitamins and minerals eliminates that need. 
As far as 90 lbs, yes, it's big for a golden who was bred to standard, but if your golden is not from a great breeder who does not breed to standard, then 90 lbs. might be the correct weight. The only way to know is to provide pictures from different angles so that others can see his body condition. My sisters golden is poorly bred, an AKC registered purebred golden who doesn't look much like a golden, IMO, but she is almost 75 lbs, which is 10 lbs over the standard, but it's the perfect weight for her body. She is definitely not overweight, she's just badly bred.


----------



## Zerpersande (9 mo ago)

Taz Monkey said:


> She is definitely not overweight, she's just badly bred.


When you say ‘badly bred‘ this is not a reflection on health/temperment, but simply not being to a set of standards for show dogs?


----------



## Chiefs golden (6 mo ago)

Happydogmom said:


> Hi! I am very curious what other Golden parents think about dog food and which option supports a long and healthy life. My 2 year old 90 pound boy has been on Royal Canine for most of his life as recommended by his vet. However he is very low energy and I have been told by a few people now that kibble is not as nutritious as home cooked meals. I tried switching him to a healthier kibble called Orijen but even with transitioning him to it from a bland diet it causes diarrhea. I have been looking on the balance it website but am a little confused on how to use it and figure out a daily meal plan for him and have also been considering Dr. Harvey's. Would love some advice or even how to use the balance it website to figure it all out. Or if you think kibble is still better. I would really love my Owsley to live in to his teen years and want to make sure he is getting all the nutrients he needs.


I disagree with a kit of the other comments on the weight issue - a lot depends on the dog, his size and bone structure, etc. Your vet should be letting you know if he is overweight. My golden male was in a small litter - only 4 pups, 2 male and 2 female. He was big from the beginning (huge paws) and st 20 months is 82 lbs. He is very active - can run forever chasing the balls we throw him. I take him on long walks (2.5 - 3 miles). I am 74 and retired and he keeps me healthy. I was feeding him too much at the one year mark - vet told me two level measured cups twice a day. Lot of people do “scoops” which I was doing, when I measured it out he was actually getting about 6 cups. Once we got his food on correct amount his weight stabilized He looks great. As one other commenter said, you can easily feel his ribs when rubbing hands over his side He is tall, lanky and as my vet said (and she raises goldens so she is really an expert) he is just a big golden. But very active and healthy. From the lack of energy it sounds like yours may be overweight or not enough exercise. They need a lot and the more you give the more they want 
I do feed kibble. As a pup he was on Blue Buffalolarge breed puppy When he reached “adulthood” I switched to Wellness Natural Complete Health large breed. From my research (retired guy with lots of time 😀) I found this to be the best option. So in summary, get to vet to have weight checked to see if and how much he is overweight, make sure he is getting proper amount of food (measure carefully), and exercise. Oh - watch those training treats also. They can add up to a lot of calories. Reduce regular food accordingly if you are giving lot of treats or use kibble for treats but take it from daily food servings.


----------



## Nextshinything (12 mo ago)

Happydogmom said:


> Hi! I am very curious what other Golden parents think about dog food and which option supports a long and healthy life. My 2 year old 90 pound boy has been on Royal Canine for most of his life as recommended by his vet. However he is very low energy and I have been told by a few people now that kibble is not as nutritious as home cooked meals. I tried switching him to a healthier kibble called Orijen but even with transitioning him to it from a bland diet it causes diarrhea. I have been looking on the balance it website but am a little confused on how to use it and figure out a daily meal plan for him and have also been considering Dr. Harvey's. Would love some advice or even how to use the balance it website to figure it all out. Or if you think kibble is still better. I would really love my Owsley to live in to his teen years and want to make sure he is getting all the nutrients he needs.


We have a 3-yr-old Golden with serious joint issues resulting in two major operations already, so we need to keep her weight down while providing the nutrition and joint support she needs (in addition to supplements). We tried several types of food, including Royal Canine, but had issues with each (non-interest, gastrointestinal, weight), until we switched to Farmer's Dog. Sunny absolutely LOVES it! They worked with us regarding appropriate recipes and portions, and I'm happy to say it's extraordinarily successful. Sunny's weight is down and she has more energy. Our vet is not normally a fan of "boutique" foods, so she actually called the company and verified that veterinarians are directly involved in the nutritional development of the recipes. Just "food for thought"...


----------



## roxygold (Apr 6, 2014)

My golden has thrived on commercial raw grinds. I rotate brands and proteins. When she was on kibble for the first 2 years, she was getting chronic ear infections.


----------



## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

Zerpersande said:


> When you say ‘badly bred‘ this is not a reflection on health/temperment, but simply not being to a set of standards for show dogs?


Yes, at least in this case. Kona 100% has the perfect golden temperament, but physically, she's not at all close to breed standard.
Pic attached.


----------



## Hildae (Aug 15, 2012)

Zerpersande said:


> When you say ‘badly bred‘ this is not a reflection on health/temperment, but simply not being to a set of standards for *show dogs*?


No....

The standards are not for "show dogs." The standard is for the BREED, every individual. Goldens should be bred to the standard, even "pets" who just take walks and play fetch in the yard.

The erroneous idea that the standard is for show dogs is exactly what keeps BYBs in business. Saying a pet doesn't need to be bred to the standard is like saying you don't need to buy a house from a builder who builds to code.


----------



## forgold (Feb 29, 2020)

Happydogmom said:


> Hi! I am very curious what other Golden parents think about dog food and …long and healthy life. My 2 year old 90 pound boy has been on Royal Canine for most of his life as recommended by his v…..


Dear Happy Dog Mom.
*Your vet is right*— The *Big Four* companies foods are safe, safest we have ...cuz they employ full-time, board-certified nutritionists, manufacture & thoroughly test their products before sending them to market. And despite their large size, they have *NO* reported cases of *nutritional DCM.* In contrast, there are an alarming # of dogs that‘ve been dx’d with DCM or died while eating one of these small, boutique co.s diets. (Home-made & RAW diets are also suspect.) That’s why 3 yrs. ago, the *FDA* named the 10 companies with the worst track record for this form of DCM. 

FMI, join the big *FB group *devoted to *DCM *to understand the risk of feeding a boutique dog food & how to feed home-cooked if you will not feed the Big Four. But note: Any of the grain-inclusive diets made by *RC*, *Purina, Hills & Iams-Eukanuba*) are recommended. And BTW most will be cheaper to feed than a Balance It diet. As for your dog’s low energy, check w. your vet. And if you know the breeder, ask about your dog’s parents & siblings. If your dog doesn’t have a waistline, he may need to lose wt,

I have a Ph D in a related field and I fell for the *hype* …. until the 1st FDA Report came out. The advertisers know our weaknesses. 

Many here on this forum feed one of the new ‘boutique’ foods. BUT probably don’t know anyone whose dog died of this awful disease. Or that only a small # of dogs ever get sick from these new foods or are properly diagnosedl FDA sees just the tip of the iceberg! So…there are always 100s of dog owners to pop up & argue: “But my dog loves TOTW” (whatever), “see his nice shiny coat”... as ‘proof.’ 
Another reason not to feed a boutique diet: research is expensive, takes time… so the new, small co.s put their $$ into adv.s & use new & cheaper ingredients. Example: substitute peas for chicken — *an accident to waiting to happen. *Because they do NOT realize that the NUTRIENTS an ingredient supplies depends on what else it is _mixed_ with it. You can’t just go substitute a cup of lamb for chicken. A mistake Nutro made 2-3 decades ago. 

And THAT was an important CLUE to the cardiologist vets as early on. BOTTOM LINE … I am no longer a *dog food snob *—I no longer think: “Hey, I can afford to do better than feed Purina, cuz I only have one dog” & I no longer believe that my Ph D in a related area suffices. I now feed Purina Pro Plan & say why. And … I feel guilty that I never spoke up on the internet…when people talked as if Purina were the Devil incarnate or announced that corn was a ‘filler’ or suggested some vets were getting kickbacks.

Too much detail??? Well, the short & smart-aleck answer to your question would be: Boutique dog foods are fine if you like to play Russian roulette.


----------



## forgold (Feb 29, 2020)

casedacca22 said:


> Try Hills Diet weight management food. It's a chicken based food. My 11 and a half year old loves it and has lost weight on it. He acts like a puppy!


Yes, good—Hills is a well-respected co. because it carefully researches its products. Anecdotes are in the realm of personal opinions. See my long answer, above.


----------



## forgold (Feb 29, 2020)

Taz Monkey said:


> Yes, at least in this case. Kona 100% has the perfect golden temperament, but physically, she's not at all close to breed standard.
> Pic attached.


Agree,temperament is first & foremost. 
And if your dog were also birdy, that means he or she was bred for working qualities — which has become secondary in most minds these days. Anyway, all pure bred dogs have become dangerously inbred, primarily because so many of us seek to win in the show ring. Calboli et al, 2008 study.


----------



## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

forgold said:


> Agree,temperament is first & foremost.
> And if your dog were also birdy, that means he or she was bred for working qualities — which has become secondary in most minds these days. Anyway, all pure bred dogs have become dangerously inbred, primarily because so many of us seek to win in the show ring. Calboli et al, 2008 study.


ehhh. I don’t agree. Good breeders don’t breed for temperament OR to breed standard. They breed for the whole package. There’s a breed standard, wether for show or work. Kona is not it. Since I know where she came from, I know for a fact that she’s not well bred. But even if I didn’t, you can tell just by looking at her.


----------



## forgold (Feb 29, 2020)

Hildae said:


> No....
> 
> The standards are not for "show dogs." The standard is for the BREED, every individual. Goldens should be bred to the standard, even "pets" who just take walks and play fetch in the yard.
> 
> The erroneous idea that the standard is for show dogs is exactly what keeps BYBs in business. Saying a pet doesn't need to be bred to the standard is like saying you don't need to buy a house from a builder who builds to code.


But not true IF the ‘code’ has been mis-applied ... as it has been for all purebred dogs. A sad fact that the Calboli et al 2008 study makes clear. Most of a dog’s genes are hidden, the bad genes you don’t know about until later when recessive pair up. So, all pure bred dogs today have become dangerously INBRED because so many of us are obsessed by looks & type. Explained in a GRCA paper buried online, written 11 years after Calboli was published. The inevitable result of a closed gene pool….if you read it you will see where I am coming from.


----------



## Mimi Anto1 (7 mo ago)

When will people realize that kibble is to dogs like Oreos is to humans. It's just carbs. Sure, it's convenient. Sure, it lasts a long time. It's crap. It was once protein, then cooked in 450 degree ovens until all semblance of protein and any other good things was cooked out of it. Then, it's sprayed with fat and vitamins to meet 'standards'. Feed your dog raw. Many cities/areas have raw feeding co-ops. I currently feed my 80lb Golden male (7) 1 lb/day and my 65lb bitch (3) 3/4/lb/day. It's a blend of salmon, beef, chicken and turkey with egg and supplements. With shipping and taxes it comes to $2.06/lb or $165/6 weeks. Of course that has increased the past year due to costs in shipping but my guys have awesome coats and energy. When I got my bitch 4 months ago she was 72 - way too large for her frame. It took me a month to transition her to raw and only after I figured out I needed to soak her dry and add raw would she eat (texture thing I guess). Now she snarfs down her raw and is at a svelte 65. If you can't find a good pre-made raw then look at dehydrated raw like Sojos. Once you look at the ingredient list of the dry foods you'll realize you're feeding them a ton of chemicals.


----------



## forgold (Feb 29, 2020)

Tagrenine said:


> I love kibble. And will always recommend good kibble (I personally use Royal Canin for my golden). However, BalanceIt is regularly recommended by veterinary nutritionists if somebody wants to balance their home made pet food.


Yes! And what’s even better …is that RC is not the only properly researched dog we have. Purina Iams-Eukanuba & Hills are equally good, See my long post of why experts recommend any of the grain-inclusive diets of the FOUR co.s . And none of the new trendy boutique ones (too are risky). Hopefully, folks want to know the science behind our personal recommendations—- otherwise we sound like internet gurus


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

forgold said:


> *Your vet is right*— The *Big Four* companies foods are safe, safest we have ...cuz they employ full-time, board-certified nutritionists, manufacture & thoroughly test their products before sending them to market. And despite their large size, they have *NO* reported cases of *nutritional DCM.*


False. 

I dredged through the original report from years ago with all the compiled complaints and there were dogs with DCM or DCM suspect who had been fed Hills/Science Diet, Purina Pro Plan, and Royal Canin.

The only "big four" that did not show up in any complaints was Eukanuba.

Furthermore - Hills/Science Diet has been implicated in various serious complaints and recalls over the recent years.

Then the other serious issue is that Purina owns many brands - including some of the brands that were listed by FDA. If you are going to say Purina is WSAVA approved, doesn't that include all their products? Or is that conveniently disregarded because it's getting too complicated?

And then let's discuss something else.  Purina Pro Plan has no recalls, but they probably should have done so with a random formula change that they attempted in recent years - which caused serious health issues for dogs. Facial swelling, gut problems, so on. I'm trying to guess if the major shortage with Pro Plan is actually a shortage or if it is a "silent recall" while they try to figure out what the heck went wrong.

And oh, I'll add a new one. You should not need to give your dog any supplement - including something like Fortiflora (!) if your are feeding your dogs a good quality diet. If you have to add Fortiflora and coat/skin supplements, etc.... means something is missing.

I think that the whole DCM thing is a mess because you had people trying to force out results before they were ready. That's not science. Or not sound science. And dog owners with too much time on their hands and neuroses going cataclysmic are not the people you want to take advice from. Many of these people made their own dogs sick because they kept switching from fad diet to fad diet. Read the details in the complaints and other than one or two particular formulas or brands where the owners only fed that kibble and had problems.... many of the others listed 3-4 different kibbles that they had fed their dogs.

One more fun fun fun time fact is that separately from DCM, golden retriever breeders and oddly enough the same cardiologist driving the DCM studies discovered that there were cardiac problems slipping through the cracks despite them getting heart clearances on their dogs. This is why the same time that pet owners are trying to get echos on their dogs, dog breeders are partially adding that to the list that they do with their dogs and require of stud dogs. Not all of them, but it may be going there with the breeders who were stunned to have SAS and heart murmurs popping up. <= I'm simple minded when it comes to this stuff, but my feeling is that DCM may be hereditary and it simply was not noticed or separated from hemangio of the heart unverified dx. 

Just seriously. >.< Anyone wanting to do the right thing by their dogs.... feed a kibble that your dogs do well on. If the dog has skin, coat, or gut problems that do not clear up.... you probably are feeding the wrong food. Rather than try to force it with supplements, etc... feed a kibble the dogs do well on.

My dad was a PhD (Chemistry), but that did not make him an expert on nutrition. LOL. Especially dog nutrition.

/end rant


----------



## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

forgold said:


> I now feed Purina Pro Plan & say why. And … I feel guilty that I never spoke up on the internet


Well now you have. Thank you for the great post.

Here is another fact; If you are feeding a "boutique brand", Purina probably has done more reasearch and has more knowledge on it than the company that produces it.

And a bonus fact; Function does not follow form and neither does intelligence.


----------



## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Mimi Anto1 said:


> my guys have awesome coats and energy


So do mine, which is miraculous since I feed them crap, or as I call it, "Purina Pro Plan 30/20".
Hard to believe that about 99% of field trial dogs (and dogs in general) are thriving on food with zero nutritional value.


----------



## forgold (Feb 29, 2020)

Mimi Anto1 said:


> When will people realize that kibble is to dogs like Oreos is to humans. It's just carbs. Sure, it's convenient... It's crap. ... Now she snarfs down her raw and is at a svelte 65. ..… chemicals.


*Mimi Auto1, *
Any chance I can convince you to read WHY *board-certified canine nutritionists *recommend we feed grain-inclusive diets made by the Big Four Co.s you hate? Diets that have proven to be our best defense against *n-DCM. * Or do you think they are wrong on that issue too? 

I have Ph D in a related area, have taught all sorts of students… you sound like someone who thinks that anecdotes are the cat’s meow! Ideas like that thrive on the some parts of the internet. 
Apparently, you believe a HS or college degree suffices for dog nutrition. Whereas for a broken leg, you go to a real doctor?? Well ... some of our dogs have already died because their owners listened to people like you. RAW food has never proved to be safe or better than what the Big Four offer. Also true of the boutique dog foods. Yet you seem to think that by bad-mouthing Purina, etc. that somehow proves that your ideas are correct?? NO

Have you met any of those owners of DCM dogs, who were misled by slick ads & gurus and now deeply regret the choices they made*? *So, many of them say, ” But I was only trying to do my best for my fur baby” So sad, so naive. .… but where did THAT come from? In part from those of us who have low opinions of teachers & science and/or think we over taxed. And truthfully also from folks like you. In President Abe Lincoln ‘s day, blood letting was a common practice, so his doctors tried that. Ronald Reagan was luckier….


----------



## forgold (Feb 29, 2020)

SRW said:


> So do mine, which is miraculous since I feed them crap, or as I call it, "Purina Pro Plan 30/20".
> Hard to believe that about 99% of field trial dogs (and dogs in general) are thriving on food with zero nutritional value.


Welcome to the world of dis-information! Or are you being sarcastic?


----------



## forgold (Feb 29, 2020)

Taz Monkey said:


> I feed raw. When you cook, you still have to balance with synthetic vitamins. Feeding foods that provide those vitamins and minerals eliminates that need.
> As far as 90 lbs, yes, it's big for a golden who was bred to standard, but if your golden is not from a great breeder who does not breed to standard, then 90 lbs. might be the correct weight. The only way to know is to provide pictures from different angles so that others can see his body condition. My sisters golden is poorly bred, an AKC registered purebred golden who doesn't look much like a golden, IMO, but she is almost 75 lbs, which is 10 lbs over the standard, but it's the perfect weight for her body. She is definitely not overweight, she's just badly bred.





SRW said:


> Well now you have. Thank you for the great post.
> 
> Here is another fact; If you are feeding a "boutique brand", Purina probably has done more reasearch and has more knowledge on it than the company that produces it.
> 
> And a bonus fact; Function does not follow form and neither does intelligence.


YES I have spoken up and more than once here. And… in the FB group that‘s devoted to DCM, I got several knowing chuckles when I admitted to being a reformed food snob! Where did you learn that Purina was not big & bad?


----------



## forgold (Feb 29, 2020)

Taz Monkey said:


> …. My sisters golden is poorly bred, … she is almost 75 lbs, which is 10 lbs over the standard, but it's the perfect weight for her body. She is definitely not overweight, she's just badly bred.


She could akso e a throwback to well-bred Goldens in the past, some were oversized



Taz Monkey said:


> ehhh. I don’t agree. Good breeders don’t breed for temperament OR to breed standard. They breed for the whole package. There’s a breed standard, wether for show or work. Kona is not it. Since I know where she came from, I know for a fact that she’s not well bred. But even if I didn’t, you can tell just by looking at her.


*NO*. If most folks did breed the whole package, our gene pool would be in much better shape. The main reason it isn’t is … because of the *Popular Sire Effect*. Began in the 1970s. Then came ”*James“ *who had 600+ puppies as i recall and behind him are some with crazy high COI’s relatives. And of course the other reason is .… our gene pool closed. We have been throwing our babies out with their bath water for years! Now Goldens (like all pure bred dogs) are dangerously inbred, The Cavaliers with their cute bulgy eyes & pushed-iin faces are in worse shape. The sad thing is that the downside of inbreeding gave been known for decades.


----------



## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

forgold said:


> Or are you being sarcastic?


Not this time.


forgold said:


> Where did you learn that Purina was not big & bad?


By witnessing it firsthand.

When I was a kid we fed raw. We didn’t know it though, back then it was just called table scraps. Almost everybody did it because it was cheap and easy, now people feed RAW because it’s expensive and virtuous.


----------



## Hildae (Aug 15, 2012)

forgold said:


> But not true IF the ‘code’ has been mis-applied ... as it has been for all purebred dogs. A sad fact that the Calboli et al 2008 study makes clear. Most of a dog’s genes are hidden, the bad genes you don’t know about until later when recessive pair up. So, all pure bred dogs today have become dangerously INBRED because so many of us are obsessed by looks & type. Explained in a GRCA paper buried online, written 11 years after Calboli was published. The inevitable result of a closed gene pool….if you read it you will see where I am coming from.


I am familiar with that study. You are completely off base and trying to compare apples to oranges. The standard has nothing to do with inbreeding or genetic depression. A dog bred to the standard is non-negotiable for without the standard, we lose the breed. No one said to breed to standard you must inbreed dogs. There is sufficient diversity within the golden retriever breed to have low COIs and many breeders are striving to keep their diversity high, even importing dogs from the UK or France to help.


----------



## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

[insert funny, but subtle threat about keeping the thread civil here]


----------



## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

ArkansasGold said:


> [insert funny, but subtle threat about keeping the thread civil here]


Where is the incivility?


----------



## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

forgold said:


> She could akso e a throwback to well-bred Goldens in the past, some were oversized
> 
> 
> *NO*. If most folks did breed the whole package, our gene pool would be in much better shape.


But I didn't say "most folks". I said "good breeders".


----------



## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

SRW said:


> When I was a kid we fed raw. We didn’t know it though, back then it was just called table scraps. Almost everybody did it because it was cheap and easy, now people feed RAW because it’s expensive and virtuous.


Lol, I most certainly don't raw feed because it's expensive. And it is more expensive than a bag of PPP. I feed it because I have seen the benefits firsthand in my own dogs, both the ones who have been previously fed kibble and then switched and the ones who have never eaten anything but raw in their life. And because I feed a non traditional diet, I also go above and beyond and do the tests to make sure everything is in working order, and it is. I currently have no reason to switch from a raw diet to a traditional kibble diet. If something happened that made that necessary, then sure. But right now and for the past 5+ years, raw has worked beautifully for my dogs.


----------



## joro32000 (Feb 25, 2017)

This thread diverted quite a bit from the original OP question regarding pros and cons of feeding kibble versus cooked food. I am in a vast minority here in the Forum and feed cooked. I go by my own record of life experience, and I have no good reason to change anything. I have never fed kibble.
First golden lived to 13, Lola (choc lab) 18, last golden that passed away in 2022 was 17. Now I have two goldens, both 10. Before I had a couple of mutts both dying around 17. I didn’t have a dog that died of cancer. It is not that I am saying my food choices prevent a cancer, there are many other reasons for it, but I have no good reason to change anything.
Cooked food is expensive. I buy the same food for dogs as for myself in grocery store. The only difference is method of preparation, no spices.


----------



## Boondox (Sep 6, 2010)

Oceanside said:


> I have neither weighed myself nor my dog in the past year, if anyone was wondering. Weight is a very overrated metric.


I absolutely agree. My wonderful boy Kazoo was 100# by the time he was two years old. While certainly out of breed standard he was active and athletic, with his ribs easily felt. He is now 13 years old and can still put our one year old on the ground during play sessions


----------



## lucy.tascone (3 mo ago)

SRW said:


> Explains the low energy.


Weight alone can't be the answer, can it? I came here hoping to learn more about what I should be feeding my high energy Golden. He is 97 pounds, all muscle (and hair - LOL), neutered, turning 3 at the end of this month. He's not much for sleeping, full of energy, runs, jumps, swims, always wanting to go more, pacing to the front and back door when we are home. I cannot keep up with him.


----------



## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

lucy.tascone said:


> Weight alone can't be the answer, can it?


No, it isn't. There are exceptions, but most retrievers over 90 or even 80 pounds are overweight, often by quite a bit. Add to that many people don't know what a fit retriever looks like, most have probably never seen one. 
As I said there are exceptions. I had a lab years ago that was right at 100 ponds in his prime. He was a great waterfowl dog. As far as I could tell he was immune to cold temperatures. He would sit in the blind after a retrieve covered with icicles scanning the sky for ducks. He often spotted them before I did.


----------



## Happydogmom (11 mo ago)

joro32000 said:


> This thread diverted quite a bit from the original OP question regarding pros and cons of feeding kibble versus cooked food. I am in a vast minority here in the Forum and feed cooked. I go by my own record of life experience, and I have no good reason to change anything. I have never fed kibble.
> First golden lived to 13, Lola (choc lab) 18, last golden that passed away in 2022 was 17. Now I have two goldens, both 10. Before I had a couple of mutts both dying around 17. I didn’t have a dog that died of cancer. It is not that I am saying my food choices prevent a cancer, there are many other reasons for it, but I have no good reason to change anything.
> Cooked food is expensive. I buy the same food for dogs as for myself in grocery store. The only difference is method of preparation, no spices.


Would you point me in the right direction for knowing what/how much to feed them? To start a cooked diet?


----------



## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

Happydogmom said:


> Would you point me in the right direction for knowing what/how much to feed them? To start a cooked diet?


If you're cooking for your dog, you really need to contact a veterinary nutritionist. Cooking depletes a lot of vitamins and minerals and will make for an unbalanced diet.


----------



## okko (May 19, 2021)

Happydogmom said:


> Would you point me in the right direction for knowing what/how much to feed them? To start a cooked diet?


One of the easiest ways to feed cooked (or raw) without guesswork: Dr. Harvey's | Fine Health Foods for Companion Animals


----------



## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

FWIW I agree with Taz Monkey that if you are going with your own homemade food, your best bet is to work with a veterinary nutritionist, BUT this site has some sample diets (and links to good resources) that could get you started: DogAware.com: Homemade Diets for Dogs


----------



## ChrisFromOC (Sep 19, 2018)

Just Food for Dogs shares their recipes and also sells their supplements kit for those who prefer to cook the food on their own. I feed my golden about 1/2 kibble and 1/2 lightly cooked Just Food for Dogs, and it works well for us.


----------

