# The Dedication To Obedience



## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Can someone please describe the *importance* of the dedication to the sport of Obedience, especially if you have high goals for your dog? (Like me...the OTCh title.)

I know some of you out there actually show more in Obedience...but I want to hear from you. 
Thanks,
C+M


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Hi Caryn
Guess who?? I will, as always, preface that this is my opinion and nothing more. 
I understand what you are asking but I do not believe there is truly a simple answer. Unfortunately sometimes "dedication" is not enough. First and foremost there has to be a passion for the "game". It is so much more than being dedicated. Just about everyone who achieves those goals does it not just because of "dedication" but passion. You can be dedicated and train with the beat trainer faithfully but that is not enough. There are more dogs capable of these goals than there are handlers capable. Some of us are just not that good and our dogs would be more likely to attain the highest levels with another trainer. I know because my dogs have tried telling me this for years. Sometimes even the not so "top" handler can achieve those levels due to the dog's talent and the "passion" of the handler. Those "passionate" folks are willing to understand there are no short cuts, that they (not the dog) need to work harder, how not to allow their own short commings to be relayed to the dog. Most of us "ruin" our first dogs chances because we do not get this concept. Some of us "ruin" more than one dog because although we learn a lot with our first dog, we forget that the next is not the same as that one and mess up in other ways. BUT there are some that get it right with there first dog. I have seen it only a couple of times in my years with dogs but it does happen. These are the folks I call "naturals". They have the passion, they have the raw talent, they have the "dedication" AND they have a dog that is capable of these lofty levels. So as I have suggested in the pass. Don't ever lower your goals because you could be one of those naturals but please don't EVER lose sight that it is the journey to those goals that matter most, not the goals themselves. The really good teams follow this belief. The idea of all these "games" is to enjoy the time with our beloved companions and HAVE FUN.

Take care and good luck
Hank 
Can OTCH Viking Princess Gold-Keeper SH, UD, MX, MXJ, OAP, OJP, CCA, VCX, OD, CGC,TDI, Am/Can WC, Can AGN, Can VC (Keeper) 
Ambika's Funny Redhead JH, UD, MX, MXJ, CCA, VCX, CGC, TDI, Am/Can WC, Can CDX (Lucy)


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

_Something to keep me battling and wanting to win._

If it feels like a "battle", maybe it's not the sport for you?

I don't say that to be a slam... just an honest statement. I train in obedience b/c I love the process (the bonding, etc. with my dog) and I happen to be a ham, so I like being out there in the ring. If I felt like it was a battle all the time, I'd probably switch to something else.

Just a thought.

As for the importance of dedication to obedience... it's no different than the importance of being dedicated to *anything* that you want to be successful at.

Stick with it because you enjoy the process and the time spent with the dog. IMO, that's what it's all about. Winning is just a nice fringe benefit for us. The dogs don't know if they win and they wouldn't care anyway.


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## Rastadog (Oct 24, 2006)

*it's not about winning*

In my case it was improving my relationship with my dog. It made me sad that when we started my dog hated obedience. With the help of a good teacher I learned to motavate my partner and make training fun. My girl was transformed and loved to train. Her overall attitude about life was improved by our training. Two of my first dog's best open classes were NQ's. I was as more proud of her NQing while working a really good class than a HIT when I thought we were flat. It's about you and Maddie learning to communicate and trust each other. The process of developing that relationship is what you should be focusing on. I was not dedicated to obedience. I was dedicated to my first dog. Focus on your partner.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

IMO - competing in Obedience is not about a battle....it is love affair....it is a connection...it is time well spent being with a dog you love and that loves being with you - it is a relationship....

You asked if I had competition pictures....and I told you very few...a few title pictures and her HIT picture and that was it...I know they are in an album somewhere and her ribbons are in a box....
The ribboins are pretty and the pictures ok...but they are away in the closet....my girl, my friend... with her wet nose and soulful eyes is with me every day.... The only reason she plays this silly game is because I ask her to and she chooses to spend time with me.... 

In a million years I will never betray her trust in our relationship...there will be no battle about it....


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Rastadog said:


> ....The process of developing that relationship is what you should be focusing on. I was not dedicated to obedience. I was dedicated to my first dog. Focus on your partner.


Well said....


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

I don't mean this as a 'battle'...more like defeating the others who are the 'top trainers' around here...that's what I mean. 

I know it is strengthing the relationship...and that's what most of you are saying. 

Thanks!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

If your focus is on beating the other people, I'd argue that you'll do better if you shift your focus.

Do you train everyday?


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

I obviously, agree with FlyingQuizini. I feel that if you are concerned with "defeating the others who are the top trainers around here" you are setting yourself up for disappointment. I would be willing to bet if you spoke to these trainers and asked they would all tell you it took them years to get to the level they are at. Some would probaly be willing to share their own training theories with you if asked.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Ok...I guess you need a better understanding of what I mean. 

I do Obedience because it's fun for me and my dog. I also do it because I've always dreamed of stepping into that ring and trusting my dog that she'll know everything that I've trained her for. I have big expectations for Maddie, and I know she can do it. She is smart, agile, and a very brilliant dog. 

I don't do Obedience just to get those BIG ribbons and all the glory. I don't believe in that. Lets say we have a 2 day show...and the first day we don't do too well, that night I'll go home and train and work on that little thing. Just reminding her of what to do. I won't be mad at her, I'll give her credit that she tried hard and put effort into it. 

Steph- I think you're confused by what I'm trying to say. I don't think I need to change venues, by just what you're hearing. At Linda's seminar last weekend, she told everyone that you have to be dedicated to this sport. If you have high standards and high expectations for your dogs, you will do well. I just wanted to know what people on here thought about dedication to this sport in praticular. I wanted to know how much it takes to get that title that I'm shooting for. If a gal like Linda thinks a dog like Maddie, can get it, then I'm going to trust her and believe in what she tells me. I don't think she could just say that we could get the OTCH, for no reason in praticular. There has to be something that twinkles in Maddie's eye for the wanting to work with me, and not blow me off, our relationship I think had become a bit weak since we went to our previous trainer. No, it's not a strong one, but we'll keep working on it, everyday. Now that we have met up with Linda, Maddie is more close to me and is still showing me the 'want' to work.
No, I don't train her everyday, more like every other day. With me being gone 5 days out of the week up until 3:30 and coming home for an hour and then going to basketball practice, I don't always have the time to. That's what the weekends are for. 

What I mean by the battle part- Once we have our 'base' titles (CD, CDX, UD) then we can start hitting the B rings and battling towards the OTCh...it is a battle up here, because everyone is going for it and some of the top dogs and handlers are up in this area, wether you realize it or not. For some reason *something* that I write turns out into *something* that you think is wrong...but sometimes you pick out the little things...and take them seriously.????

I'm not trying to bash you Steph, but I just don't get it sometimes, how the little things I say mean something BIG to you...

C+M


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## Rastadog (Oct 24, 2006)

*Stephanie*

You're much nicer than I am. 

If it feels like a "battle", maybe it's not the sport for you?

I don't say that to be a slam... just an honest statement. I train in obedience b/c I love the process (the bonding, etc. with my dog) and I happen to be a ham, so I like being out there in the ring. If I felt like it was a battle all the time, I'd probably switch to something else.

Just a thought.
As for the importance of dedication to obedience... it's no different than the importance of being dedicated to *anything* that you want to be successful at.
Stick with it because you enjoy the process and the time spent with the dog. IMO, that's what it's all about. Winning is just a nice fringe benefit for us. The dogs don't know if they win and they wouldn't care anyway. 
Yesterday 10:26 PM 




Don't ever lower your goals because you could be one of those naturals but please don't EVER lose sight that it is the journey to those goals that matter most, not the goals themselves. The really good teams follow this belief. The idea of all these "games" is to enjoy the time with our beloved companions and HAVE FUN.



IMO - competing in Obedience is not about a battle....it is love affair....it is a connection...it is time well spent being with a dog you love and that loves being with you - it is a relationship....



The process of developing that relationship is what you should be focusing on. I was not dedicated to obedience. I was dedicated to my first dog. Focus on your partner. 



Varoius replies with a common theme only to get the following reply,
"...more like defeating the others who are the 'top trainers' around here...that's what I mean." 

Caryn, You're not getting it. The people who responded to you have been there and done that. You haven't. Focus on your dog and the limited time you will have with her. After I retired Marley, my first dog, from the ring we continued to train every day because it was fun.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

It can be difficult sometimes to see the "whole picture" on the internet when you know the other person from only what they post. The few posts I have seen from you tend to lean toward what do I need to do to "WIN" in my eyes and apparently that is not the "whole picture". It sounds like you have found a trainer that believes in your dog, believes in you and you are very comfortable with. You are very fortunate. I would see this person as my "mentor" if I was in your shoes and use her knowledge and guidance for all it is worth. As I stated earlier you could be one of those rare "naturals" and your trainer would love nothing more than to help you along your journey. 
What is Linda's definition of "dedication"?


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Sometimes it's the little things that make the world of difference. You're asking a question and I'm giving you my opinion. That's far from saying that you're wrong.

I know all about being in an area with top handlers. I've got an NOC handler in my backyard.

I'm just saying (as are the other people who have replied to your thread) that it's about the journey, not the winning and I think exhibitors go further when they see it that way. Also, just pointing out in your last reply that you gave an example of the dog not doing well in a ring.... and that you'd go home and work on *her* and not be mad a *her*. It struck me that there was no mention of *you* in that example. Just keep in mind that more often than not, it's US who mess up the dog. 

It's great that your instructor sees OTCH potential in Maddie, but she won't get there w/o YOU! And YOU have to hold up your end of the deal!  The two of you are a team.

To go back to your earlier answer of dedication... here's me being brutally honest: If you're only training on weekends, it's going to be brutally hard, if not impossible to make it to OTCH. OTCH trainers are out there working everyday. Louise Fox Meredith (the NOC handler in my area) trains about 4 hours A DAY! 

I train everyday and I work a 12-hour day. Now, when I train on a daily, it's a few mins here and there: a few fronts and finishes before Quiz gets dinner or a couple dumbbell pick ups in the living room in the evening. I do it because I enjoy it. I go out and "formally" train with a ring maybe once or twice a week. I try to heel at least a little everyday but I don't always manage to pull that off - especially when I'm not actively showing. When I get ready to and start showing, I'll be training more regularly. 

I guess I don't fully understand your original question of describing the importance of dedication...? Of course it's important to be dedicated to *anything* you want to be successful in. That sorta feels like, "Well.... DUH!" 

What am I missing?


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

I think what you guys are seeing as a 'battle', is like that Maddie and I have a struggle between something in our training...etc. NOOO WAYY!! It's definetely not a battle for us to get where we want to be. I think I worded that 'battle' wrong. It's not a struggle for us, just as you get up there...you need to knock some flies dead and win...LOL!! 

Yes I agree with Hank on the 'whole point' or picture on the Internet. It is very hard to see what the other person means. I hope this thread doesn't turn into a 'fight' over whatever! I'm just stating a few things that you many not understand.

With our previous trainer we've been told to get a new dog. Because her training tactics weren't working...but then you come up and work with an OTCh trainer...and she thinks Maddies marvelous!  She is!!!

With that said, I'm off to working on the dumbbell with Maddie and doing it one more time before I head off to bed, later tonight. And then later this afternoon...and the driveway is cleard of the melted snow...I'll work on our recall and heeling. 

See, I'm doing this because it's FUN for the BOTH of us!


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Steph- You need to realize that I'm in the midst of basketball season. When basketball is done and the season is done, then I'll be out there everyday to train with Maddie, in the morning...yes even at 5:30 I do it...especially the week before a show. Then when I get home I go out and train her not formally but Linda believes in Flashsessions...a 3-5 minute non formal training. 
Stephanie Said: 
I* guess I don't fully understand your original question of describing the importance of dedication...? Of course it's important to be dedicated to *anything* you want to be successful in. That sorta feels like, "Well.... DUH!"*

My original question was because someone had said to me a week or 2 ago...that you can't do ANYTHING else, other than working the dog, several times throughout the day, if you want the OTCH. So, that's why I posted yesterday to see how much it takes to get that title. 

Stephanie Said: 
*I'm just saying (as are the other people who have replied to your thread) that it's about the journey, not the winning and I think exhibitors go further when they see it that way. Also, just pointing out in your last reply that you gave an example of the dog not doing well in a ring.... and that you'd go home and work on *her* and not be mad a *her*. It struck me that there was no mention of *you* in that example. Just keep in mind that more often than not, it's US who mess up the dog.*

My question is...what if the dog got distracted...even though he was proofed through everything before they went into the ring? And it wasn't the handlers fault for something else? 

Now...this time I'm really OFF...I'll check more of this discussion later when done training.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Hey Caryn,
I'm going to share something I learned from years of playing soccer (and which I imagine you have heard from your basketball coaches). Every team starts the season with the ultimate goal of winning the championship (be it league, county, state, whatever). It's a fantastic goal to have and can be a driving force to inspire the players to work hard. But if the team only focuses on that one goal, they're going to be in trouble. You have to approach every game as if it's the championship game. If you overlook the task before you, there is no way to succeed. Too many times players get caught up thinking... if we win this game, then we play so-and-so, then we... and they don't give enough thought to today's opponent. 

This thinking can easily be adapted to obedience. Your ultimate goal is the championship (OTCH). It's a fantastic goal to have, and you very well may succeed. But instead of focusing only on that, you need to approach each show as if it is the only one that matters. Forget even focusing on the current title you are going for (CD?), and just put all your energy into doing the best you can TODAY. Losing one match doesn't knock you out of the running, but you just need to learn from it and apply the lessons to your next outing. 

Personally, after a day out at a trial, I won't work Jersey once we return home that evening. He's been under a lot of stress throughout the day, and I think (just my opinion) that the best thing I can do for him is give him a chance to rest. If there was one specific thing that was a problem, I'll run it a few times at the site the next day to get it fresh in his head. Of course, that's just my way of doing it... and it doesn't make your way of doing things wrong. I just thought I'd share.

Julie and Jersey

Edited to add: And as with any sport, the best reason to compete is because you enjoy it. Having fun should always be the number 1... win or lose.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

*I hope this thread doesn't turn into a 'fight' over whatever! I'm just stating a few things that you many not understand.*

Nobody here has said anything that would cause it to turn into a fight.

... I think maybe *we're* trying to say something that *you* don't understand. We're saying stop worrying about winning and getting an OTCH. Train. Show. Have fun. 

The reality is, you or I may never earn an OTCH. Be okay with that. In my area, if I really wanted to earn an OTCH, I'd probably not be able to do much else in life b/c I'm competing with people who train for 4 hours a day... because they can. It may well be a case where, to truly achieve the OTCH, you can't be involved in much else, becasue that time needs to go to training, polishing and maintaining an OTCH-level performance.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

_ Stephanie Said: 
I'm just saying (as are the other people who have replied to your thread) that it's about the journey, not the winning and I think exhibitors go further when they see it that way. Also, just pointing out in your last reply that you gave an example of the dog not doing well in a ring.... and that you'd go home and work on *her* and not be mad a *her*. It struck me that there was no mention of *you* in that example. Just keep in mind that more often than not, it's US who mess up the dog._

*My question is...what if the dog got distracted...even though he was proofed through everything before they went into the ring? And it wasn't the handlers fault for something else? *

Sure, anything can happen. It's a dog, not a robot. I was just pointing out that I feel there may be a bit of a flaw in your thinking if your initial assumption is that the dog messed up and you had to fix the dog. To me, it says that you're not really, truly thinking of you and Maddie as a team. Just my opinion.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

One last thing:

Having the OTCH, or the UDX, UD, CDX or CD simply exists to feed the human ego. Period. The dog doesn't know or care and you can spend as much time working with, training and showing your dog w/ or w/o the titles.


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## Rastadog (Oct 24, 2006)

*Jersey's Mom*

Makes some excellent points. Both about getting ahead of yourself and not training after a trial with your tired dog. Maybe if you had more experience at driving 2-3 hours to a show site, setting up and spending the next 4-5 hours there with your dog on leash or in a crate only to have a 2-3 hour ride home, this would make more sense.
Flying Quizini suggests taking ownership as handler for problems that come up in training or showing. One of the first things Terri Arnold taught me was it's always the handlers fault not the dogs. Lack of attention is the handlers fault period. That's the foundation you should be working on during your " flash sessions".


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## Goldendogx2 (Sep 2, 2007)

While I haven't been around that long--maybe 5 years--I've seen the best handlers and the best dogs NQ. The dogs are still animals and anything can happen.

I love the challenge of figuring out how to communicate with my dog and watch him progress. Learning from others in the sport is also a challenge. You have to watch out for personalities and know who offers the best advice. We learn to be gracious and at times humble. Those qualities help us in our human relationships.

The titles are a benefit, but if I can take away one lesson from each event, I grow. Even with the NQs, I ask "did he improve in the other areas?" Its a process.

You'll have good weekends and poor ones. Celebrate the good and learn from the bad. At the golden specialty in my area, in 2007, my boy got a HIT, 2 firsts and his CD all in one weekend. Sure, it was a small show, and the utility dogs had a rough time, but I still got the HIT. I'll try to get one again, but if I don't, I'll treasure the one I got. It's about sportsmanship and being gracious to your competitors and helping them out where you can.

Sometimes in being "dedicated" I think I learn more than my dog. And THAT is a Joy of life.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

So..... Caryn.... You got this great thread going and then disappeared!

We've all given you our thoughts, now let's hear yours...


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

I was just thinking about this thread earlier... but hadn't gotten around to digging it out. Thanks for the bump Steph. (that's your name right? I feel silly calling you by your dog's name all the time :doh

Julie and Jersey


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Jersey's Mom said:


> I was just thinking about this thread earlier... but hadn't gotten around to digging it out. Thanks for the bump Steph. (that's your name right? I feel silly calling you by your dog's name all the time :doh
> 
> Julie and Jersey


Yup. You got it right... but I'll answer to Flying Quizini, too!


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Giving this another *bump* in case you didn't see it the other day, Caryn. 

Julie and Jersey


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Well ok...I guess I *have* to say something to this.

My thoughts are: I have to work extra hard at what I want to accomplish with her. I have to get out there everyday and work in the house, outside and go to other places.I also have to study and read up on building a better relatioship with my dog...because without that...you won't have much. And that's all you can take into the ring is your relationship. I also have to be dedicated to this sport because it's fun...and I should *never* give up on what I want to do.

I know it's kind of short...but what's in my head...I think it would take forever to be put on the forum.

Caryn


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Well said, Caryn. I hope you don't feel that replying to this was a chore. I think we all assumed that when you started this thread it was a topic you wanted to discuss, and something you had strong feelings about. And I think we were all just curious as to your take on what you have been learning through classes and reading as well as to our thoughts on the matter.

Julie and Jersey


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Jersey's Mom said:


> Well said, Caryn. I hope you don't feel that replying to this was a chore. I think we all assumed that when you started this thread it was a topic you wanted to discuss, and something you had strong feelings about. And I think we were all just curious as to your take on what you have been learning through classes and reading as well as to our thoughts on the matter.
> 
> Julie and Jersey


YES EXACTLY!! Thanks for finally getting out what I meant! Thanks!!  No, it wasn't a chore...I just thought you guys REALLY wanted to know...so I decided I'd write it up.


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