# Puppy Food & Slow Growth - brand sugesstions



## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Try and find a large breed puppy food or a puppy food that has the guaranteed analysis a large breed puppy needs. Check out purina pro plan large breed or something like nutro large breed. That will give you a idea what a large breed puppy needs. Both foods are also readily available at petsmart or petco. The large breed formulas help promote slow even joint development.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

I would stay with the Euk LPB until the pup is about a year old. I've raised numerous litters and puppies on it.


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

Take what I say with a grain of salt, I'm by no means an expert, but from what I understand, the slow-growth plan is about the QUANTITY of food being given, rather than brand. Don't get me wrong, quality food does a lot in terms of good overall health, but you could easily overfeed a dog using a high quality food.

That being said, I've heard a lot of good things about Purina Pro Plan, lots of people on here use it. I don't because Kaizer's been doing great on the food that breeder's given him, and so I see no reason to change it. Do both foods have the same meat product? Some puppies either don't like or don't do well on certain proteins, and do better with others. 

Is there any reason you went to Merrick instead of the Eukanuba/Iams mix that the breeder suggested? Besides people recommending Merrick.


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## GoldinPNW (Jun 23, 2015)

I use Orijen. 
My breeder voids the warranty if you feed anything labeled puppy. Instructions are no food formulated for puppies due to growth issues.


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## Am_Erica (Nov 30, 2015)

aesthetic said:


> Take what I say with a grain of salt, I'm by no means an expert, but from what I understand, the slow-growth plan is about the QUANTITY of food being given, rather than brand. Don't get me wrong, quality food does a lot in terms of good overall health, but you could easily overfeed a dog using a high quality food
> 
> Is there any reason you went to Merrick instead of the Eukanuba/Iams mix that the breeder suggested? Besides people recommending Merrick.


I'm looking for a better quality adult food that will fulfill puppy's nutritional needs. As for the "slow growth plan" - It was recommended to switch from the puppy food to an adult food (since the adult isn't as calorie dense). 

The Eukanuba's first 3 ingredients read .
*[Chicken, CORN MEAL, Chicken by Product]*
- Corn meal as a 2nd ingredient made me question quality/fillers. Is corn meal good for dogs? Is rice better? 
:yuck: -* Chicken by Product* : Various parts of poultry (heads, feet and intestines) makes me uncomfortable. 


I have a background in Environmental Science and have studied the FDA's standards (or lack there of) & practices of Livestock management.
So I may be a bit more paranoid than the average consumer. 
I don't eat a great deal of meat but I know Puppy needs to!
:wavey:recommendations are welcome.

(I will mention the Merrick gives her the worst smelling sleep farts) lol :


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## Am_Erica (Nov 30, 2015)

Is a higher protein content better? The Merrick with grains contains 30% crude and the Nutro says 24%? Is there a specific target %?

I am looking at the Nutro Young adult.


Large Breed Young Adult Dog Food Chicken, Whole Brown Rice & Oatmeal Recipe


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Brands with "better" ingredients may just sound better on paper. If you're really concerned, take a look at the complete nutritional analysis and do the research on what it really means and what values are ideal for puppies. For example, the right calcium and phosphorus content is important. If you're concerned about the slow growth plan, be sure to look at the calories as well. It could vary quite a bit among foods.


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## Crosby&Charlotte (Sep 4, 2015)

Since I brought home my 6 month old at 8 weeks, he's been on half adult and half puppy food, both of the Natures Domain brand at Costco (about 2-3 cups a day now, less when he was younger). He's now 45lbs, just shy of 6 months, and he is definitely growing slowly. Huge paws, smaller body and head. Very lean, active, and healthy. Hope this helps!


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I am a believer in staying on a Large breed Puppy formula till at least 12 months old. The large breed puppy formulas usually have the correct calcium/phosphorus ratio which is important for proper growth. 

Another key is not to overfeed. My boy never got more than 3 cups total and by 12 months his food intake was reduced to 2.5 cups. He is now 2 years old, weighs 73 pounds and is in perfect condition and gets 2.5 cups of adult food. 

If your baby is doing good on the Eukanuba large breed puppy - why change it? 15 weeks old to me does not qualify to switch to an adult food. 

I fed my boy Pro Plan Focus Large breed puppy formula till he was 13 months old.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

We didn't switch Chloe to a adult food until about six months. But we had a issue we were trying to stop. She would of stayed on the nutro large breed puppy until a year. We were going to try that young adult nutro but she can't have a chicken based foods. Puppy's need the right ingredients so I would try the nutro large breed puppy then you can switch to the young adult later if you want.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

I agree with the others who've said, if your pup was doing well on the Eukanuba, leave her on it. Why fix something that's not broken? 

What humans find "good" in terms of food is not necessarily what a puppy or dog needs. Keep in mind Purina and Eukanuba have been feeding healthy dogs for decades. They do mountains of research and testing. 

You can do slow growth on Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy - just don't overfeed.

I'll add just as an aside - my pup was on Purina Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy until she was about 14 months old or so (can't quite remember, but she was over one year) because she grew so slowly on it. She needed the extra nutrients in the puppy formula for longer because she was small.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

QUALITY

If your concern is quality ingredients, I suggest you look at brands like Orijen and Acana. They are more spendy than many of the regular store brands, though. Orijen in particular can be expensive. Maybe not an issue when you have one puppy, but I have several adults, so it's a concern. Also, you can get these foods shipped direct to you at a lower price than in stores by buying from Chewy.com. I definitely recommend Chewy. I save a lot of money shopping there, even though having a herd of active adult Goldens means you can spend hundreds of dollars a month in dog food.

Some of my dogs can be fussy eaters. They all eat Acana, and love it. And their poops are very firm. Acana is less expensive than Orijen, otherwise I would be feeding Orijen. Loose stools can be a result of the richness of the food. Very rich foods sometimes produce loose stools. For instance, a lot of dogs don't do well on Blue Buffalo, because it is richer than most of the other store brand foods.

Slow Growth

Slow growth is a term of art. It's not just about feeding a particular kind of feed, it's an actual feeding plan created by longtime and ground-breaking breeder, Rhonda Hovan of Faera Golden Retrievers. It involves hitting particular growth rates at particular points in development, and it's fairly rigorous. I raised my Gibbs on that plan, and it was a raging success, though more difficult to follow than just "measure and feed." We had to monitor his weight and his rate of growth on a weekly basis, and make constant adjustments on the volume of food he was given. That made him smaller and thinner than most other puppies, but by a year he had caught up.

Here's a link to Rhonda's slow growth plan: http://www.2ndchance.info/homemadediets-Hovan2009.pdf

As I say, we have an image of roly-poly puppies, but on that plan Gibbs was very thin:










It was excellent for his bone growth, though. And now as an adult, he is extremely robust and rugged, with great hips and elbows.


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

DanaRuns said:


> QUALITY
> 
> If your concern is quality ingredients, I suggest you look at brands like Orijen and Acana. They are more spendy than many of the regular store brands, though. Orijen in particular can be expensive. Maybe not an issue when you have one puppy, but I have several adults, so it's a concern. Also, you can get these foods shipped direct to you at a lower price than in stores by buying from Chewy.com. I definitely recommend Chewy. I save a lot of money shopping there, even though having a herd of active adult Goldens means you can spend hundreds of dollars a month in dog food.
> 
> ...


I agree that the slow growth plan is rigorous and difficult to follow. We tried very hard to follow it with Noah, I obsessed over his weight a LOT! I read Rhonda's plan at least weekly. 

In the end, I worked hard to make sure that he always had a visible waist, could easily feel his ribs and made sure (and still make sure) that he has daily aerobic exercise in addition to his long walks. We also take advantage of the various dog sport classes available to us that are appropriate for a growing puppy - puppy agility (no jumps), dock diving, rally, barn hunt, etc. I ultimately "failed" at the slow growth plan as written, but felt good that we never allowed him to show any visible fat or pudginess. 

He's 10 months old now, and I took him in to be weighed yesterday, thinking he'd surely gained some weight since his last weight was taken. Turns out, he'd lost 1 lb. He's 62.1 lbs as of yesterday, has a nice athletic build to him, and constantly complimented by the dog sport people I hang out with on his body condition and how nice it is to see a lean golden of his age. 

By the way Dana - LOVE that picture of Gibbs!


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Am_Erica said:


> I'm looking for a better quality adult food that will fulfill puppy's nutritional needs. As for the "slow growth plan" - It was recommended to switch from the puppy food to an adult food (since the adult isn't as calorie dense).
> 
> The Eukanuba's first 3 ingredients read .
> *[Chicken, CORN MEAL, Chicken by Product]*
> ...


First you need to study some college textbooks on animal nutrition and leave the advertising propaganda alone.

1. There is nothing wrong with processed corn as an ingredient, and it is not a filler. The idea that corn is a filler is advertising propaganda. (Vet your information sources.)

2. There is nothing wrong with rice as an ingredient, and it is not filler.

3. By-product meal in and of itself does not mean "Bad". Contrary to what the advertising propaganda would lead you to believe, by-product meal actually has a higher protein content than chicken meal. (go back to your veterinary science textbooks and you'll see it's true.) Advertising folks like to trot out the idea that by-product meal can contain heads, beaks and feet however they're playing you at that point. Just because it "can" contain those things doesn't mean it DOES contain those things. You have to ask the food manufactures directly as to the source of the ingredients they are actually using in their products. (And No you can't tell from browsing the ingredient panel on the side of the bag.) I don't have any problem feeding hearts, liver, and gizzards to a dog and they are by-products. They are packed with nutrients that are easily used by a dog's digestive system.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

I am not a fan of the so-called slow growth plan. I believe it is more important that a puppy have an adequate diet to support his/her rapid growth. As far as food is concerned, Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy food is a good food. Max ate it until he was about 15 months old and did great. His adult food is Acana Wild Prairie.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Here is a little reading for you on this subject. The problem is overfeeding calories. Excessive weight caused by calorie dense food and bone development issues caused by either excessive or improper calcium levels (also phosphorous). Higher protein diets may be too rich and cause upset stomach issues for more sensitive dogs, that's probably the issue with the Merrick for your pup. 

Your puppy is much better off being a little too lean than a little too heavy, just like people. On a 5 point body scale the vets I've been reading are recommending a 2.5 - 3 for your puppy. That is bordering on just over SKINNY. Take a look:

Body Condition Scoring Chart | Veterinary Medical Center


Do You Know What to Feed Your Large or Giant Breed Puppy?

Feeding Large Breed Puppies - IVC Journal


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## Am_Erica (Nov 30, 2015)

Vhuynh2 said:


> . For example, the right calcium and phosphorus content is important. If you're concerned about the slow growth plan, be sure to look at the calories as well. It could vary quite a bit among foods.


Thank you for the tip. The Merrick has a far to high calcium to phosphorus ratio for a large breed puppy.


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## Am_Erica (Nov 30, 2015)

Thank you all for the tips. This is certainly a lot of information to digest (no pun intended).


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Max's Dad said:


> I believe it is more important that a puppy have an adequate diet to support his/her rapid growth.


I think that goes against pretty much _all_ the science on the subject. I can't think of a single study that advocates for rapid growth. But certainly they need adequate nutrition, if that's what you mean.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

DanaRuns said:


> I think that goes against pretty much _all_ the science on the subject. I can't think of a single study that advocates for rapid growth. But certainly they need adequate nutrition, if that's what you mean.


Yes, adequate nutrition is most important. My problem with the Hovan plan is that it does not fit every Golden Retriever.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Keeping them on slow growth is not going to affect their final adult size, it's just going to slow it down. The photo of Gibbs as a puppy posted by Danaruns is just a perfect example of a pup with a tuck up, just as described in the guidelines. We have become so accustomed to seeing overweight dogs that we don't recognize what a healthy weight looks like. Not all pets have to be conditioned athletes but they shouldn't have a layer of padding on them either.

This article by Jennifer Larsen DVM is really good and gives some of the best rules of thumb I've been able to find on how to figure calories for a large breed puppy. She is an expert in clinical veterinary nutrition and an associate professor at UC Davis Faculty / Staff | UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine - Veterinary Medical Teaching Hospital

https://s3.amazonaws.com/assets.pro...44e1a1036fa4f52e03ee/filePV0510_Nutrition.pdf


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## Am_Erica (Nov 30, 2015)

*Eukanuba premium performance 30/20 mixed with Half Purina Pro Plan La*

After all the references provided & doing some research (and talking to my breeder), I'm reconsidering her recommendations. Insight is welcome.

She feeds Half Eukanuba premium performance 30/20 mixed with Half Purina Pro Plan Lamb & Rice. 

I definitely still have more reading to do about nutrition and would like to calculate the total nutrient profile.

I am not sure how many cups to feed her per day. 
She's a big puppy with giant paw. 

We're going to the vet tomorrow so I will have a exact weight.


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## djg2121 (Nov 22, 2015)

I use grain-free Blue Buffalo puppy food and adult food for my mature dog. 

I like this site: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com


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## djg2121 (Nov 22, 2015)

Am_Erica said:


> After all the references provided & doing some research (and talking to my breeder), I'm reconsidering her recommendations. Insight is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I feed 3x/day (my pup is 15 weeks), about 1 cup of kibble mixed with a heaping tablespoon of canned food and a little warm water). I started at 4x/day and smaller amounts when she was at 8 weeks and could eat less, and moved to 3x at about 12 weeks when she was looking for more food after eating what I gave her.

My mature dogs get fed 2x/day, with 1-1.5 cups of dry and a some wet and water mixed in. I moderate food quantity by monitoring my dogs weight and feeling for the ribs. I keep my dogs lean because it is far healthier for them.

Disregard what is on the food bags.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Your dog will let you know if your feeding to much or to little just by the way they look. We still sometimes give Chloe a little kibble at lunch because we can tell when she is hungry. She usually doesn't get grabby with food but if we notice her doing that at lunchtime we will give her some and she usually stops.


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## Lise123 (Jan 1, 2014)

I followed the Hovan plan with my puppy (he is now almost two years). He was a very slender puppy and young dog, though he's now filling out with more muscle and fur and it's harder to see it.

Other members of my household did NOT follow the Hovan plan. My dog had a taste of every meal prepared in my house. My husband is the worst offender.

He never had puppy food. When we first brought him home, I added water to a cup of dry adult kibble recommended by the breeder (I don't recall the name) and split that among three meals. As an adult, he gets 3/4 cup of Fromms Grain Free three times a day.

My dog has a sensitive stomach and does best on three meals a day, and he's now grain-free because he developed an allergy to grains at 18 months.

We switched to Fromms to avoid corn products. My dog had a doggy odor that disappeared after we eliminated the corn from his diet. Not all dogs may have this problem.








In this picture, he was playing fetch with a whiffle ball. It looks like he's about to get hit with the bat, but he didn't.


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## Am_Erica (Nov 30, 2015)

awe love that photos action shot!


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

People are making this over-complicated. Forget the label on the front of the dog food bag because "puppy" or "adult" or "large breed" can have a huge range of percentages in the guaranteed analysis. Feed quality protein and fat with a decent calcium/phosphorus level and ratio and watch the number of calories. You really can't go wrong if you feed a food that is 26/16 protein/fat with calcium not more than 1/5% and don't overfeed. Farmers from 50 years ago would be laughing at all this hair-splitting and worry on the subject.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

MyBentley said:


> People are making this over-complicated. Forget the label on the front of the dog food bag because "puppy" or "adult" or "large breed" can have a huge range of percentages in the guaranteed analysis. Feed quality protein and fat with a decent calcium/phosphorus level and ratio and watch the number of calories. You really can't go wrong if you feed a food that is 26/16 protein/fat with calcium not more than 1/5% and don't overfeed. Farmers from 50 years ago would be laughing at all this hair-splitting and worry on the subject.


Farmers from 50 years ago didn't feed kibble and had no inkling about hip and elbow dysplasia. (If they didn't feed table scraps and bones, they probably fed Gaines Burgers :no: )

Otherwise, though, I'm completely with you on the rest of your post.


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

DanaRuns said:


> Farmers from 50 years ago didn't feed kibble and had no inkling about hip and elbow dysplasia. (If they didn't feed table scraps and bones, they probably fed Gaines Burgers :no: )
> 
> Otherwise, though, I'm completely with you on the rest of your post.


So true. My mother had many stories of spending summers on her aunt and uncle's farm in the 1930s and one of her responsibilities was gathering the table scraps to feed the shepherd dog. It lived to 15 years old.


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## Am_Erica (Nov 30, 2015)

MyBentley said:


> You really can't go wrong if you feed a food that is 26/16 protein/fat with calcium not more than 1/5% and don't overfeed. Farmers from 50 years ago would be laughing at all this hair-splitting and worry on the subject.


She's 15.5 weeks - 27 lbs

I am a first time Mommy (to a Golden Puppy). My childhood golden lived to be 17 years old, so i want to do my best to her my pup to live as long.
I think I have to food nutrition down. She still seems hungry but maybe that is because she likes the food more.

I would like to Mention the food industry. (I dont mean to rant) just so people are aware. 

Unfortunately 50 years ago farmers & consumers didnt have to be concerned about Genetically modified "food" monopolizing the food industry. 



​_*The top four steer and heifer slaughtering firms increased
their proportion of total V.S. steer and heifer slaughter from 36% in 1980 to more than 80% by 1996*.The number of steers and heifer plants operated by the top four firms increased only 22% from 1980 to 1996._

(Increasing their output without increasing their factories leads to less oversight) and poor quality grades of meat). 

Ever worse two weeks ago, here in South Florida they discovered multiple illegal inhumane slaughtering houses selling/mislabeling their meat. it's horrible. 

If I could afford or had the time to cook for her myself I would. But I do appreciate your reassurance. Thanks for the input.


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## SunnynSey (Jan 17, 2015)

I don't think you can go wrong with a large breed puppy food, or any food really that states it follows AAFCO guidelines for growth and maintenance and many adult foods fall into this category. ProPlan, Eukanuba, Fromm are all popular tried and true options.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Am_Erica said:


> She's 15.5 weeks - 27 lbs



Big pup!! Are you trying to get her within the weight ranges? It is probably too late now.


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## Am_Erica (Nov 30, 2015)

SunnynSey said:


> I don't think you can go wrong with a large breed puppy food, or any food really that states it follows AAFCO guidelines for growth and maintenance and many adult foods fall into this category. ProPlan, Eukanuba, Fromm are all popular tried and true options.


I Just switched her to the Eukanuba Premium Performance. mixed with the Proplan Lame and Rice. 

She LOVES it! and has more energy.


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## Am_Erica (Nov 30, 2015)

Vhuynh2 said:


> Big pup!! Are you trying to get her within the weight ranges? It is probably too late now.


She is a big lady. I was surprised at the vet yesterday, she gained about 2.25 pounds this week. 

She ate a bunch of sand/rockysoil/smallobject (possible blockage) so the vet gave me Science Diet Wet to feed her as much as she wanted so she could hopefully "pass it" naturally . Thank goodness it worked, but it was a lot more food. 

Should I decrease her food? 
3/4 cup x3 a day or 1 cup x3 day?
Next week I think I'm going to switch to twice a day if she's not hungry (midday).


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

She is cute. I don't think she is that big. The average for a four month old female golden is 30 lbs. one cup three times a day seems good.


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

Am_Erica said:


> She's 15.5 weeks - 27 lbs
> 
> I am a first time Mommy (to a Golden Puppy). My childhood golden lived to be 17 years old, so i want to do my best to her my pup to live as long.
> I think I have to food nutrition down. She still seems hungry but maybe that is because she likes the food more.
> ...


I can understand your concerns about the pet food industry. In light of that, two companies I think highly of are Farmina ( an Italian company with US distributor) which has quite high sourcing standards. Their website is very informative. I also think Annamaet is a cut above many US dog food companies. Their all life stages Extra Formula (26/16) might be something to take a look at. I've had good results with both brands and had fewer concerns about the companies than I did many others.


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## djg2121 (Nov 22, 2015)

*Puppy Food &amp; Slow Growth - brand sugesstions*



Am_Erica said:


> She is a big lady. I was surprised at the vet yesterday, she gained about 2.25 pounds this week.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your pup looks strikingly like mine. This is Fanny, who is 15 weeks today and just around 24 lbs. She eats 1 cup of dry with a heaping spoonful of wet 3x/day. I use Blue Buffalo puppy food. I've had good luck with BB for all my dogs.











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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

> *She's 15.5 weeks - 27 lbs*


Definitely big enough to cut back to two a day feedings. Try 1 cup, twice a day and see how she does. If she starts to look a bit thin , bump it up a bit. If she starts to get a bit pudgy, back it off a bit. You'll find that puppies grow in spurts so you'll always be adjusting the amount you feed based upon her condition.


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## MoltenGirl (Aug 4, 2015)

Max's Dad said:


> I am not a fan of the so-called slow growth plan. I believe it is more important that a puppy have an adequate diet to support his/her rapid growth. As far as food is concerned, Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy food is a good food. Max ate it until he was about 15 months old and did great. His adult food is Acana Wild Prairie.


Agreed. 

I'm all in favour of slow growth but my puppy NEEDS nutrition and essential calories for proper growth and development. This whole obsession with keeping a puppy lean is just that: obsessive. 

Babies and infants need calories for proper growth and brain development. So do young animals. When my puppy lunges at his bowl and devours his food in less than 2 minutes and looks for more, I know I'm not feeding him enough. 

I also have this thought: if my puppy is supposed to learn proper routines and behaviours, and be adequately exercised and stimulated, then HE NEEDS FOOD. 

I often feel that many behavioural issues might be related not only to temperament but also, hunger. I compare it to myself. If I'm hungry, I'm generally cranky and not in a good mood, distracted, and not really paying proper attention. Has anyone ever thought that a basic reason puppies act out is that they're hungry? 

I've read numerous threads and posts throughout this forum on the subject of food- how much, often, when, quality etc...... The most logical posts have been those whose owners pay attention to their puppies/dogs' body language and behaviour. I recall someone posting here that they fed their 3-month old pup 4 cups, 3 times a day which lasted a short phase, then adjusted accordingly based on their pups eating habits and growth and they are just fine! 

This obsession with the scale is insane. I don't advocate for obese pups/dogs but rather, common sense and following my puppy's cues. My boy used to obsess and devour his food like a nut.....wild man.....until I slowly increased it and switched to a higher quality food. Result? I have a much happier, well-adjusted dog who is content, eager to please, and *GASP* still a healthy weight. 

In my opinion, puppies like babies should NOT be on diets. Switching to an adult food at 4 months? Absolutely. But the key word is 'food'


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## SunGold (Feb 27, 2007)

I've raised my puppies for the last 15 years or so on Pro Plan Large Breed puppy... I've had great results.


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## jimji (Dec 10, 2015)

My puppy is 17 wks! I am feeding her Blue Buffalo Wilderness Large Breed. She LOVES it. I was feeding her Life's abundance because my breeder required it but my puppy was so reluctant to eat it. Ever since I switched her to Blue Buffalo, she became so excited about getting her food. She doesn't seem to gain a lot of weight after switching to Blue Buffalo. So I guess it works for slow growth. By the way, she is only 21 lbs.


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