# Good obedience but bad manners



## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

Well that kind of depends on what "manners" issues the dog has. My dogs jump on people-actually all my dog friends' dogs are allowed to jump on dog people. Ruby is a counter surfer and both she and Piper will get in the garbage if it's available. All of these are bad manners but they can control themselves during a dog show. 

You really, really need to get him out doing the exercises in public around distractions if you are going to compete. The dog needs to be able to focus despite kids running around, food, other dogs, a judge touching them, etc.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

I don't think obed v manners is just a challenge with young dogs.....

And it's two very different things.

Some things to think about 
1) Improve the fluency of the behaviors he has. You don't need a group class to do this. There are a few articles on clickertraining.com (annoying login thing to read articles....but worth it)...esp by Casey Lomonaco
2) Think about locations to work. I've been taking my dog in town...initially late at night or poor weather. But as he gets in more practice, we go at busier and busier times. I also monitor how close we are to groups of people, etc.... for appropriate distraction levels. He's not ready to be pet by people, but I let them toss treats to him.
3) Competition obedience is very different from basic manners in terms of fluency and what is required. Watch youtube videos of runs. Read the rules. Go watch events. Re-training little skills can be done but it's annoying.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

jackie_hubert said:


> 8 month old Cosmo is great at obedience when there are not many distractions near by. I feel that we could do well in obedience trials. Would we pass a CGC? Heck no!


If your dog is unable to handle all sorts of distractions he would never succeed at an obedience trial. You need to train at all sorts of places with people, other dogs and all sorts of smells so that your dog learns to attend to you with various other stimuli around. Our obedience trials are outdoors, mostly at parks, so we train for the unexpected before we ever enter a trial. Even the indoor trials can present its own set of challenges.

I would suggest you watch some events in person and get a feel for the types of distractions you and your dog will experience. We have even had horses pass through, and a flock of birds land in the ring and on the ring ropes. Children are naturally attracted to the dogs in the obedience rings, hanging on the ropes to watch or runnning by as they play.
During the stand for exam your dog needs to be firmly planted in a stand position and not budge when the judge approaches and touches your dog. That can be very tough for our good natured Goldens.

Obedience competition is great fun with an awesome community so it is worth considering. Just do your homework a bit first. Good Luck!


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

I should clarify that I'm not planning on entering the obedience ring any time soon and perhaps never will but I'm frustrated with doing so much obedience, even in busy areas, and doing so well...until people actually come right for him, then he turns into the worst behaved dog around. People walking close or smells are not generally the issue. 

I guess I need to focus more on desensitization but right now I'm not sure if I should greet more people with him or teach him to ignore them by not letting him interact...

Once I got some cashflow I'm really excited to start on agility as I think that might be the best venue for him.

Thanks for all the opinions.


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## Summer's Mom (Oct 20, 2010)

Summer is 11 months old, and a little like Cosmo in the sense that she performs her obedience stuff really really well, but otherwise is a little monkey!

I think we made a mistake by using a different collar during training - our instructor wanted us to have a "working collar" (one that is used only in class and during training). On that she does not approach people or jump or do anything looney, and she ignores a dog passing 10inches away in class. BUT on her usual flat buckle collar all bets are off. She lunges, pulls, jumps, grabs and whatever other nonsense when shes excited. ARGH!

Her obedience class sometimes goes in the mall to work with distractions, and she does just great. He believes she will be a fine dog in the ring, but hey, why would I want to live with a nutty nut all other times? 

I just got her a new collar (birthday gift to myself) and I'm going to try and use it in both training and fun contexts and see if she can generalise. Sigh!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I don't find a whole lot of correlation between ability to perform in the obedience ring and basic manners. It really just depends on what the owner decides to emphasize when teaching the dog. There are plenty of OTCH dogs that pull on a leash, jump up on people, and steal food from unsuspecting hands. And some of the world's best behaved dogs wouldn't do well at all in the obedience ring.


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

I agree with Jodie. I remember a few years ago I met a wonderful woman with a nice OTCH dog for field training at the wildlife management area. The dog took off and wouldn't come when called. After she had to go get it and bring it back twice she gave up and left. The dog couldn't be off leash outside.

I think practicing in public was a great cost effective idea. You can get people to help you with the "bum on the ground". Tell them if they approach and the dog gets up, either stay in place or back up. Try again. Bum up -> no movement or back up. Bum down -> get petted. The lightbulb should come on fairly quickly.

My older dog learned a lot of children manners sitting outside the toy store in the middle of winter - idea courtesy of our dog skool teecher. Good luck have fun!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Loisiana said:


> I don't find a whole lot of correlation between ability to perform in the obedience ring and basic manners. It really just depends on what the owner decides to emphasize when teaching the dog. There are plenty of OTCH dogs that pull on a leash, jump up on people, and steal food from unsuspecting hands. And some of the world's best behaved dogs wouldn't do well at all in the obedience ring.


This is so true<:

Keep in mind that a lot of us teach our dogs that there are things we allow outside the ring but never in the ring. And it is very easy to enforce this, because it means only a limited time when we (trainers) have to be on alert and ready to correct undesirable behaviors, right down to cutting down on natural social behaviors that dogs get to engage in outside the ring. 

Outside the ring I don't care if my dog goes up and sniffs people, greets people, plays with other dogs. In fact, I like him to be a regular dog outside the ring. Inside the ring I do not want them paying attention to anyone or anything except me. <- And my dog knows this because of a lot of practice at class. 

Your guy is only 8 months old. Give him a few more months to settle down while you attend class every week. It will get better with time.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

I found it easiest for my dog to not be greeting/meeting people out in public. We tried sit-for-petting but he was getting so anxious and excited that it really didn't look like he was enjoying that activity. He's much better now that there is less/no uncertainty about the interactions.

That said, I can tell when he's wanting to meet someone or if they look at him...the tail starts wagging. I always laugh if this happens when we're crossing a street or by a road and he had glanced at the people in the cars ("THEY want to see me!")

It is really frustrating at times, we've mostly worked with the same people helping us for a few months and only recently started adding in new people and it's going MUCH better.

The toher thing to do will be to make some detailed notes about his behavior, and review it in a month and two months. You ARE making progress, it's just hard to see sometimes.

And if you aren't....get some more/different help or modify your strategies.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

RedDogs said:


> I found it easiest for my dog to not be greeting/meeting people out in public. We tried sit-for-petting but he was getting so anxious and excited that it really didn't look like he was enjoying that activity. He's much better now that there is less/no uncertainty about the interactions.
> 
> That said, I can tell when he's wanting to meet someone or if they look at him...the tail starts wagging. I always laugh if this happens when we're crossing a street or by a road and he had glanced at the people in the cars ("THEY want to see me!")
> 
> ...


Cosmo has a phenomenal ability to tell when someone wants to pet him. They don't even have to come towards him, he just knows. I would have no idea. Conversely when someone is not at all interested in seeing him he simply ignores him. It wouldn't be half a tough if he wasn't so darn cute and friendly. I had far less issues with our guide dog who was black and drew a lot less attention.


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

Gosh, Jackie, he sounds just like a Golden. lol If you can't pay to go to classes, you already know what they are going to be teaching, so why don't you set up your own group? Get some friends with dogs better and worse than Cosmo and do your routine with them. Maybe borrow some neighbors or relatives and their kids to be distractions or as others have said just go to more places where there are people and things. Jaro is the same. He will do tons of things at home he has trouble with in class, all those great dogs and good smelling people. I talked to the trainer last week about polite greetings which were going very well on walks and so forth but when we went to the dog store, whoaaaaa did his but touch the ground for a nonosecond before his but was going swish swish swish? And he was up begging for attention? The trainer said this week we would all walk down to the pet store and try better polite greetings with the folks there. Like you said Jaro knows they love dogs.


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