# Field Training Seminar



## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I just got word that Quinn and Teddi got into the beginner dog hunt training seminar next weekend. It is a one day work shop, they will be using real birds (not live). Totally geared to the newbie dog. The person training is a local woman who is highly respected in field training locally. It should be fun. 

I know Quinn will be just fine. Maybe we will get some good tips about shutting her up! Her excitement takes over and she can NOT stop barking. Never have had a barking dog before we are not versed in how to stop it. 

Teddi - this could be interesting. I may come out of the seminar confirming Teddi is NOT a bird dog. However I will also have all the knowledge to start my next dog. I also hope to get some ideas of trainers who we could maybe work with. 

Ann


----------



## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

I hope you have a great time!


----------



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

that's great!! be sure to let me know how it goes, I want ALL the details!


----------



## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Have lots of fun! And with the barking--hey, at least you know that she likes it!


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Where is she barking? On the line as birds go down or in the car?
In the car is easy to fix -- bark collar. Worth its weight in gold.
Barking at the line needs a real firm handler.


----------



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Maxs Mom said:


> Teddi - this could be interesting. I may come out of the seminar confirming Teddi is NOT a bird dog.


I went to something similar last year. I brought along Conner and told her I didn't expect much, he didn't really enjoy retrieving, and I just wanted to see what we could get him to do.

By the end of the 2nd day, I had a maniac retriever on my hands that I was told should have no problems getting a SH even though he was already 5.

On the other hand, Annabel, who was the reason I traveled 12 hours to this workshop because she loved to retrieve around the house, was a total wash out. We decided she _might_ be able to get a WC if I trained on nothing but live pigeons for a long time. I decided it wasn't worth it and officially retired her from all dog sports.

I thought it was funny how I got total opposite results from what I expected.


----------



## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Sounds like a lot of fun, look forward to hearing about it!


----------



## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

K9-Design said:


> Where is she barking? On the line as birds go down or in the car?
> In the car is easy to fix -- bark collar. Worth its weight in gold.
> Barking at the line needs a real firm handler.


Just about everywhere!!! She does bark going to the line the VERY few times we have worked her in that environment. Recently we were told to give her a stiff pop to the bottom jaw. Where we were, she was barking her fool head off (dock event) and there were too many john q public people around to pop her without getting a nasty look. We can work that in the presence of field people I am sure. She will bark actually a little in a car. She RARELY barks at home, except at feeding time. We have been working on redirecting her focus but she is still a puppy (7 mons) so she has the focus of a gnat. 



> I went to something similar last year. I brought along Conner and told her I didn't expect much, he didn't really enjoy retrieving, and I just wanted to see what we could get him to do.
> 
> By the end of the 2nd day, I had a maniac retriever on my hands that I was told should have no problems getting a SH even though he was already 5.


Oh I hope this is what happens with Teddi. She does seem to get more confident off other dogs. I just want her WC, I am not expecting any miracles. 

Teddi marks like a pro, does water retrieves ALL day long (need to work on bringing 'to' me) and you should see her honor! She is great. It's just picking up the feathers, coming ALL the way in with the bird, and how to stop being a cute golden. She is a PRO at that. Correction is very tricky with her. It would be easy to put her on a line and reel her in, but on a line she WON'T go out. Won't play at all. So I can't do that. I just keep trying, and hopefully we will get some insight this weekend. 

Ann


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Oh! I didn't realize you meant a puppy. 
Well Slater would bark like insanity while I ran Fisher and he had to wait in his car. I gave him until he was about 10-11 months old, and guess what, bark collar time. It took about two sessions to completely quiet him. I didn't have to do anything but put it on him and walk away. 
Some dogs it works great. Others (and isn't your puppy a lab?) -- especially labs -- require such a strong correction to make it worth their while from the bark collar -- but the pain of the correction makes them vocalize. So it starts a vicious circle of bark - shock - yelp - shock - yelp -etc the dog never shuts up long enough to realize that the shocks only come after a bark. I have seen people run their dogs with a bark collar to eliminate barking at the line, and it works wonderfully if the dog is sensitive enough that a mild correction gets through to them. But if it causes more barking then it is not the solution.
Most field trainers handle vocalization with a stick correction and/or putting the dog up (no retrieves) but that is for older dogs who understand it. I'd say let her grow up and see where it's at.


----------



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

K9-Design said:


> Others (and isn't your puppy a lab?) -- especially labs -- require such a strong correction to make it worth their while from the bark collar -- but the pain of the correction makes them vocalize. So it starts a vicious circle of bark - shock - yelp - shock - yelp -etc the dog never shuts up long enough to realize that the shocks only come after a bark.


I don't want to hijack this thread, but this is a problem I'm having with Flip. I use a Tritronics Barklimiter on him, and on a number 3 is usually enough to keep him quiet. But if he gets really worked up (like when he can see me working another dog) he will bark through it and take the hit. But when I tried to put it at 4, he went into total panic mode that put him in that vicious circle and couldn't calm down enough to get out of it until I was able to get the collar off of him.


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Jodie does it have a 3 1/2 level?
Some bark collars are set so they cannot shock more than once every 3 seconds, or something like that, which is enough of a lapse so that if a dog vocalizes after the first shock, he doesn't instantly receive a 2nd one.
I have a Dogtra for Slater's bark collar (borrowed) that has 7 levels, I started on a 3 with him and now have it on a 4. The 3 didn't make him vocalize but I would still hear him bark occasionally, but a 4 makes him go BARK-zap-YIP! and then silence. (I have heard him do this exactly twice.) Not sure if he's just more level headed than Flip and made the connection, or the collar is set up different so it does not administer a 2nd zap after the YIP.
Honestly I've not had a dog who when kinetic on the bark collar so I don't know how to help you. Call TriTronics they have excellent customer service and maybe they can help.


----------



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

K9-Design said:


> Jodie does it have a 3 1/2 level?


That's exactly what I said I wished it had. But no.

He may be okay if I were to try it again, but I will admit that I don't want to put him through that experience again if he were to react the same way. It probably traumatized me more than him, but it was really hard to see him that freaked out about something (especially knowing that this is a dog that just doesn't get freaked out about stuff).

I did switch out the shorter prongs for the longer ones a couple of weeks ago. He hasn't barked through the collar since then, but he hasn't been put in a situation where he would want to enough either. I'll probably find out if that's enough of a change at our next field practice.


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Jodie, rather than switching to short prongs I would use the long prongs and make sure the collar is quite snug. Maybe the problem was he was only feeling it "sometimes" because it wasn't tight enough? I have seen this with regular ecollar, you nick the dog and nothing happens, next time you nick the dog and he jumps. It's because it was too loose or coat was preventing it from making contact, so sometimes he felt it and sometimes not. Maybe with a snugger collar the 3 would make a difference.
The other option is to go ahead and collar condition him so he understands what the electricity is. He would know his behavior makes it stop. I was lucky, with the bark collar Slater collar conditioned himself. I am CCing him now to sit and it is rather smooth sailing, he is calm through the corrections (up to 3 1/2 on TT 500) and responds promptly.


----------



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

K9-Design said:


> Jodie, rather than switching to short prongs I would use the long prongs and make sure the collar is quite snug. .


 
That's what I was trying to say I did....took off the short prongs and put on the long ones.


----------



## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Your training seminar sounds like a blast! Have fun! I am going to a Bridget Carleson seminar this weekend, so I should learn a lot as well.


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Oooh sorry, read too fast! Typed faster! haha


----------



## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Ok sorry for my ignorance.... Can you use a bark collar on a dog that will be trained to an e collar? 

We took Quinn to a hunt meeting practice day (my DH took her) while he was there they told him to get an e collar on her just to wear for a while before she will ever need it turned on. Wouldn't the two collars feel the same to the dog? Would using one make it harder to use the other? I don't have the FIRST clue about these things. This is some of what I hope to get out of this seminar... where to find a trainer. 

The woman who owns the facility where I train agility, she is mostly an obedience trainer. However she does hunt tests with her dogs. She offers hunt classes but to be honest, she has put a title or two on her dogs... does that classify her as a trainer? For Teddi and or Belle she would be fine, but we want Quinn to be trained right. However I don't want an overly assertive trainer too. I don't mind correction as long as it is warranted by the dogs activity. Don't muscle because you can... Get my point? 

Sure wish the trainer Barb found were close enough for me (ok MI and IL are not close enough) of course not sure I can pay "too" much either... so frustrating. 

Sorry for the rambling mind... 

Ann


----------



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Flip uses both kinds of collars, haven't seen it cause a problem.


----------

