# Clinic Cost



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

If I were you - I'd pay for a working spot. Just because some things stick more with hands on learning.

Audit - I'd pay for that if I were already experienced in field work and was just picking up new ideas. 

$300 sounds like a lot, but that is for six weeks. So you are literally paying $50 a training session.

If you need a comparison, a lot of the obedience seminars cost about $200-300+ for just 2 days. Which is double the cost of you are looking to pay for the above mentioned field working spot.

^^^ Comment based on cost. I have no idea what a toe-hitch is beyond a mental image of the metal thing for hauling trailers.  I would assume that if there is 80% of stuff being taught that you want to participate in, nobody's going to force you to do the other 20%.


----------



## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

You should probably opt for an audit spot. 

You need to watch lots of dogs and learn how to read them before trying to FF a dog yourself. After you've seen quite a few, you'll be ready to give it a try.


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I'm not wild about toe-hitch either. I don't get it. If you're dead-set against it, then an audit spot will at least get you rolling as to the timing and training timeline, and the response you want from the dog, if you're unfamiliar with force fetch training, without having to have a working spot. I think the price is reasonable.
BTW, good name


----------



## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

The price is fair, whether an audit slot or a working slot.

I agree with the "audit" votes. If you aren't going to do the toe hitch, then what's the purpose of paying for a working slot. But pay close attention, the principles apply whether using the toe hitch, the ear pinch, or the collar. (BTW, I don't know any top tier retriever trainer who uses toe hitch any more.) The progressiveness of the steps (i.e., baby steps) and timing of pressure/release of pressure are exceedingly important to understand. Bear in mind that FF is NOT just to have the dog understand that it has to hold (and to release) objects on command/demand, but it is the foundation to future training.

The more methods of training that you see and hear, regardless of whether or not you intend to apply the methods, add to your knowledge base.

And when you can swing it, buy the DVDs too (I find it quite easy to spend other people's money!). There's a Farmer/Aycock DVD on "basics" that is very good (unlike other DVDs, they allow you to see it when things don't go "by the book" and show how to deal with them ... most other DVDs edit out the exceptions).

FTGoldens


----------



## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

FTGoldens said:


> The price is fair, whether an audit slot or a working slot.
> 
> I agree with the "audit" votes. If you aren't going to do the toe hitch, then what's the purpose of paying for a working slot. But pay close attention, the principles apply whether using the toe hitch, the ear pinch, or the collar. (BTW, I don't know any top tier retriever trainer who uses toe hitch any more.) The progressiveness of the steps (i.e., baby steps) and timing of pressure/release of pressure are exceedingly important to understand. Bear in mind that FF is NOT just to have the dog understand that it has to hold (and to release) objects on command/demand, but it is the foundation to future training.
> 
> ...


I'm always willing to buy more dog training DVD's :grin2:
That's good to hear about the toe hitch going away! That's why this forum is so valuable, a trainer that is respected around my area may actually not be as respected in other areas. It is South Dakota and we seem to be quite behind the times in a lot of areas haha. I'm going to sign up to audit the class and then use my judgement on what I want to take away from it. Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

K9-Design said:


> I'm not wild about toe-hitch either. I don't get it. If you're dead-set against it, then an audit spot will at least get you rolling as to the timing and training timeline, and the response you want from the dog, if you're unfamiliar with force fetch training, without having to have a working spot. I think the price is reasonable.
> BTW, good name


I actually figured out that you used to have a Fisher shortly after I decided upon a name. Then of course I had to look up your Fisher on K9data, I hope my guy is half as well rounded as your guy was!


----------



## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Sounds like a fair price. I went to a 2 day seminar that cost about that much. Im not familiar with toe hitch. I need to find a good guide on force fetch. It is frustrating when people ask if your dog has been force fetched and you don’t know the steps. My club trains while I’m at work and the trainer I’ve been going to is 2 hours away. 

Winx needs to get the bird all the way back. She did it once at a field day. At nationals, she wouldn’t touch the birds.

Pilot needs to get started. He has been introduced to birds. I brought home a duck today and he wanted it so bad! He’s a fluffy blond golden too.


----------



## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Abeille, I second the video that FTgoldens recommended He recommended it for me when my dog was a young pup and it helped tremendously. It was almost like being there with someone, step by step. 
Im personally not into workshops and clinics. I never feel like I get enough out of them with so many people around. I prefer one on one with someone. But the price of that clinic is reasonable if that is what you are asking. 
See if you can pay someone to help you weekly. That might be a possibility. Best case get the video and find someone that knows how to do plain old ear pinch FF. Use both and check in once or twice a week during the process. This would be the most beneficial to someone like me. I had a very knowledgeable person show me the ropes. He would give me a few steps to do at home, and four days later I would show him the progress and if the dog was ready he'd show me the next steps. It was all one on one by ourselves, no stress for me or the dog. 

And yes, no matter what anyone tells you, FF is a very important step if you are going to pursue hunt or field. Even if it is junior level.


----------



## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

MillionsofPeaches said:


> Abeille, I second the video that FTgoldens recommended He recommended it for me when my dog was a young pup and it helped tremendously. It was almost like being there with someone, step by step.
> Im personally not into workshops and clinics. I never feel like I get enough out of them with so many people around. I prefer one on one with someone. But the price of that clinic is reasonable if that is what you are asking.
> See if you can pay someone to help you weekly. That might be a possibility. Best case get the video and find someone that knows how to do plain old ear pinch FF. Use both and check in once or twice a week during the process. This would be the most beneficial to someone like me. I had a very knowledgeable person show me the ropes. He would give me a few steps to do at home, and four days later I would show him the progress and if the dog was ready he'd show me the next steps. It was all one on one by ourselves, no stress for me or the dog.
> 
> And yes, no matter what anyone tells you, FF is a very important step if you are going to pursue hunt or field. Even if it is junior level.


I will watch the video. I went to a Mitch White seminar and had a working spot. I learned a lot from it. I did take Winx to private lessons. He’s a 2 hour drive away though making weekly lessons very expensive. I know FF is important. I do use ear pinch, which helps I just need to know the proper way to go through all the steps. I think I know what happened at the National anyway. She was very concerned about a mentally challenged person she heard and saw. Because I work and am currently raising my granddaughter, I know I probably won’t go further than jr hunter. What she learns transfers over nicely to other venues though.


----------



## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

In the meantime, you can always work on obedience. The better your obedience the easier your dog will do in force fetch. I'll use an example of my own dogs. Miss Lucy was my first dog to be FF. She was a show puppy that I spoiled rotten. Consequently when she was force fetched at 9 months or so, I had made the process very difficult by not having rules and sticking to them, because she was sooo stinking cute. So FF was miserable for her and for us. She went through FF, 3 separate times before FF was solid. 

Then my next puppy was Riot. He is not a show puppy, he's a field puppy. When I brought him home I was much better at making choices on what the rules will be and how I was going to enforce them from the beginning. Here's an example. When I called Riot, when he was a puppy, and he didn't come, I went and got him. But I didn't call him unless I have a way to enforce that command of "come". But when Lucy was a puppy, if I said "come" and she didn't come, I would laugh and say "isn't that cute". With Riot, I made sure that I took the time to deal with a problem at that moment, whatever time it took, instead of hoping to fix it at a later date. Another example, I want my dogs to sit at the door and not bolt when the door is opened. So I took the time, every time I opened the door, to make sure I was in a position to control the behavior of the puppy so that he did what I wanted, and if he didn't that I could correct it. With Lucy I didn't do that. I would ask her to do things, instead of being in charge and making those decisions for her. I hope that makes sense.

Would I have known all that when I brought home Miss Lucy? Heck no. I had to screw up a dog before I could bring home the next one and figure out how to do better the next time. Was I perfect with Riot? Heck no, but I was a lot better. When I say screw up a dog, I mean I have a dog named Lucy that will probably never go very far in retriever hunt tests, due to her lack of concern with what I have to say. Lucy just doesn't really care. Riot on the other hand, he cares, he knows that I will enforce any command I give. And the world is our oyster waiting for us to figure out how far we want to go.

Get a journal. Makes notes every day. Write down little things like the weather. But also write down big things, like won't come when called. Make videos of what you are doing. Carve out time every single day to work with your dog for at least 15 minutes. 2 times a day is even better. Don't lose your temper. Don't get upset. Just go slow. Obedience takes time and persistence.


----------



## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

Alaska7133 said:


> In the meantime, you can always work on obedience. The better your obedience the easier your dog will do in force fetch. I'll use an example of my own dogs. Miss Lucy was my first dog to be FF. She was a show puppy that I spoiled rotten. Consequently when she was force fetched at 9 months or so, I had made the process very difficult by not having rules and sticking to them, because she was sooo stinking cute. So FF was miserable for her and for us. She went through FF, 3 separate times before FF was solid.
> 
> Then my next puppy was Riot. He is not a show puppy, he's a field puppy. When I brought him home I was much better at making choices on what the rules will be and how I was going to enforce them from the beginning. Here's an example. When I called Riot, when he was a puppy, and he didn't come, I went and got him. But I didn't call him unless I have a way to enforce that command of "come". But when Lucy was a puppy, if I said "come" and she didn't come, I would laugh and say "isn't that cute". With Riot, I made sure that I took the time to deal with a problem at that moment, whatever time it took, instead of hoping to fix it at a later date. Another example, I want my dogs to sit at the door and not bolt when the door is opened. So I took the time, every time I opened the door, to make sure I was in a position to control the behavior of the puppy so that he did what I wanted, and if he didn't that I could correct it. With Lucy I didn't do that. I would ask her to do things, instead of being in charge and making those decisions for her. I hope that makes sense.
> 
> ...


This was extremely helpful, thank you! I also have a 2 year old golden named Penny and she has definitely been my guinea pig for training mistakes. She is a field bred golden but is gun shy so we concentrate on other areas. Starting to train in nose work and tracking and she has just an awesome work ethic for it! I've definitely been more consistent with Fisher and he is a super quick learner and very resilient, not near as sensitive as Penny is. 

I like the idea of tracking everything in a journal, it would help me be more accountable. We've taken two obedience classes already (from the same facility that is doing the FF clinic) and will likely start another as soon as I can get his Down to be consistent, he still requires a lure half the time. I hope to get his CGC early next year, then maybe do a local Rally trial that is always held in July.


----------

