# Magnolia Hills Golden Retriever "Breeder"



## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

That is heartbreaking. The worst part in my mind is that he is suggesting getting a breeding pair as a money making deal. I hope they go singly to individual loving homes and are neutered.


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## Kally76 (Jun 14, 2010)

Poor Dogs!!!! "A Great Business Opportunity" How awful!!!! And then to sell them in mating pairs, all I can say is, "Sad, sad, sad!!!!!"


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I had no problem with a reputable breeder advertising on craig's list if for some unfortunate reason they need to downsize, figuring they would still at least screen like they would for their puppies.

BUT - advertising to sell as a breeding pair for a BUSINESS!!! Selling them unneutered - that is a whole different story.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

This was one of his last two ads on craigs list. He starts out as hating to have to rid of them but then uses that business opportunity again which makes me sad


Due to a recent divorce I have been forced to close down my kennel as I am moving to Homestead and cannot take them with me. I have several Golden Retrievers that I need to find a good home for. They are all A.K.C. Certified with Champion Bloodlines and they are like part of my family. The last litter that I had I sold all of the puppies for $1200 each online with ease and I am really discouraged about having to part with my dogs. If you are interested or if you can help in any way please let me know. I would like to get something for the dogs (negotiable adoption fee) but due to my situation I have my back against the wall. This would be a great business opportunity for someone that has the right heart. You can visit my website to see pictures of the dogs if you would like: magnoliahills.us 
I also have some puppies listed on here under Golden Retriever Puppies. I did not put papers on these dogs but they are obtainable. 

Please feel free to contact me if there is anything I can do to assist you. And thank you for your interest.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I recently met a beautiful golden from a breeder here in my city. The first well bred one I have seen since I live in the middle of puppy mills.

The owner of the dog would not give me the name of the breeder. She was very upset at the breeder, because the breeder had a clause in her contract that if she and her husband divorced the dog goes back to the breeder. I guess the breeder had checked up on her puppies quite frequently. Of course, maybe this breeder was a little overboard, but she was just being responsible for the puppies she brought into this world.

She was just trying to prevent somebody from doing exactly what Magnolia Hills was doing.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

cubbysan said:


> I recently met a beautiful golden from a breeder here in my city. The first well bred one I have seen since I live in the middle of puppy mills.
> 
> The owner of the dog would not give me the name of the breeder. She was very upset at the breeder, because the breeder had a clause in her contract that if she and her husband divorced the dog goes back to the breeder. I guess the breeder had checked up on her puppies quite frequently. Of course, maybe this breeder was a little overboard, but she was just being responsible for the puppies she brought into this world.
> 
> She was just trying to prevent somebody from doing exactly what Magnolia Hills was doing.


I think that is a bit overboard too. Why not just ask 'who will get the dog in the event of a divorce?' instead, so it's brought up (it does happen)? I know of a couple who have shared custody of the dog, and he goes from one house to the other each week and has a blast.

Lana


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I'm glad I am not part of his family, given that he is so will to profit off of them. :doh:


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Disgusting. Sick, sick, sick.


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## Augustus McCrae's Mom (Aug 14, 2007)

Maybe someone from the rescue can contact him (not saying that they're from the rescue), and try to buy them? I know rescues don't have a lot of money, but maybe we could raise some money for them. Do you know how many adults he has?


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

He is interested in selling his dogs on craigs list


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

If he's still getting his $350 per dog, why would he care if they go to a rescue? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. If I was in that situation, I'd PREFER the rescue, since I'm sure their policies about who they give the dogs to are a lot more strict than what I could enforce when selling dogs on Craigslist. Some people make me so mad.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

That's disgusting. How hypocritical of him to post in his ad that they're "like family" and mean SO much to him, blah blah blah but he won't look out for their best interest and fix them before selling them? The very fact that he's trying to market them as a "business opportunity" completely discredits him saying how much he cares for them. What a cretin.


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## Karen Weissling (Jul 22, 2010)

*Magnolia Hills*

Okay maybe I'm missing something here. I went to Magnolia Hills and saw their goldens. Beautiful dogs, sweet as pie, and very well taken care of, paperwork in excellent order. I am planning to buy two of the dogs, and yes I plan to breed them. I also plan to take them to my veterinarian, groom them, play with them, walk them, buy them tons of toys, put them on Blue Buffalo dog food (as are all my dogs -- I also breed soft coated wheaten terriers and Yorkshire terriers). In short, they will be welcomed here as cherished members of my family. My husband and I are in our early 50s, retired early, empty nesters. Our animals are our life -- we do nothing except take care -- EXCELLENT care -- of our companion animals. 

If we are graced with golden puppies, we will screen potential families with the same selectivity as we do for all our puppies. They must own their home, which we will visit announced and unannounced. Obedience training will be highly recommended. All aspects of dog care will be copiously discussed. Any puppy that can no longer stay with its family is to be returned to us, for whatever reason. And we give $100 cash rebate when the owner spays or neuters their puppy. 

Someone bred their dogs to give you your golden retriever, right? Is there any reason we shouldn't do the same?


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Karen Weissling said:


> Okay maybe I'm missing something here. I went to Magnolia Hills and saw their goldens. Beautiful dogs, sweet as pie, and very well taken care of, paperwork in excellent order. I am planning to buy two of the dogs, and yes I plan to breed them. I also plan to take them to my veterinarian, groom them, play with them, walk them, buy them tons of toys, put them on Blue Buffalo dog food (as are all my dogs -- I also breed soft coated wheaten terriers and Yorkshire terriers). In short, they will be welcomed here as cherished members of my family. My husband and I are in our early 50s, retired early, empty nesters. Our animals are our life -- we do nothing except take care -- EXCELLENT care -- of our companion animals.
> 
> If we are graced with golden puppies, we will screen potential families with the same selectivity as we do for all our puppies. They must own their home, which we will visit announced and unannounced. Obedience training will be highly recommended. All aspects of dog care will be copiously discussed. Any puppy that can no longer stay with its family is to be returned to us, for whatever reason. And we give $100 cash rebate when the owner spays or neuters their puppy.
> 
> Someone bred their dogs to give you your golden retriever, right? Is there any reason we shouldn't do the same?


Will you be doing all necessary health clearance on both dogs before using them for the production of puppies? Do you know if their pedigrees are compatible? Are $350 dogs conforming to the breed standard?


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

WHY do I do this? This website is something...
http://magnoliahills.us/


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## Karen Weissling (Jul 22, 2010)

Health screens have been done (eyes, hips, elbows) and they are both clear. They both come with five generation pedigrees which certainly are compatible to one another. They are both English creams and they are exquisite in conformation and sound of mind. I am paying considerably more than the $350 you mention -- that price isn't for every dog, nor does it include the health screen papers, AKC registration, or pedigree.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Karen Weissling said:


> Health screens have been done (eyes, hips, elbows) and they are both clear. They both come with five generation pedigrees which certainly are compatible to one another. They are both English creams and they are exquisite in conformation and sound of mind. I am paying considerably more than the $350 you mention -- that price isn't for every dog, nor does it include the health screen papers, AKC registration, or pedigree.


Are you aware that there is no such thing as an "English Cream" and have you actually looked in the OFA database to see that the clearances exist? Because looking at the man's website, clearances are spotty, at best, and photos show dogs that are less than "exquisite" structurally. 
What are the names of the dogs that you are paying for?


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## Karen Weissling (Jul 22, 2010)

No such thing as English creams? That's an interesting, if misguided, opinion. Tell you what. I'll take care of my business; you take care of yours.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

Ok, hold up... I need to go get the Popcorn. This might get good


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Karen Weissling said:


> No such thing as English creams? That's an interesting, if misguided, opinion. Tell you what. I'll take care of my business; you take care of yours.


HAHAHA! Yep, "misguided". "Misguided" is thinking that anyone here doesn't know a "bit" about Golden Retrievers. And thinking that anyone who is willing to sell his dogs, advertising all over the internet, to anyone with a checkbook, has "exquisite" animals with sound, solid health clearances throughout their pedigrees. They don't. And your coming here and posting made it our "business". As a long time member of the GRCA, and a breeder/exhibitor who has enjoyed a modicum of success, and one who cares passionately about the breed, I'm fairly confident that I am not "misguided". Nor is the AKC, nor are the members of this forum who are actually from the UK, and who will also tell you that there is no such thing as an English Cream. 
Poor, poor dogs. They've been dumped by one puppy producer to another.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Karen Weissling said:


> No such thing as English creams? That's an interesting, if misguided, opinion. Tell you what. I'll take care of my business; you take care of yours.


Do you see anywhere in the AKC registration "English Cream"? No.

It will say: BREED: Golden Retriever
COLOR: Light, Med, or Dark Golden


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## damita (Jun 4, 2009)

Would love to see the breed standard for an "english golden" - wouldn't you? Maybe Karen would be so kind as to provide us with one?


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## mist (Jun 23, 2007)

very few dogs marketed as English creams have and recent parentage from the UK, Yes our breed standard does allow cream goldens to be registers but they do not have their own sub section, they are Golden Retrievers pure and simple, I would be laughed out of any of the breed clubs as well as the KC if I marketed any of my pups as English Creams, English cream is something served with scones

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/108
"Colour
Any shade of gold or cream, neither red nor mahogany. A few white hairs on chest only, permissible."


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> WHY do I do this? This website is something...
> http://magnoliahills.us/


Okay, that website alone was enough to make me cringe. 
Don't some of those dogs look a little tall? I mean like, outside of breed standard, tall? I know it's hard to tell sometimes from a photo on a website, but they don't look like they're of breeding quality to me. I'm sure they're wonderful dogs and would make great pets, but to breed them is reprehensible if those photos are a good representation of the dogs.




Karen Weissling said:


> No such thing as English creams? That's an interesting, if misguided, opinion.


 
My Riley came from a horrible BYB who was in it for nothing but the money. Even SHE told me, when we were chatting, that there's technically no such thing as an "English Cream" Golden Retriever. If she knew that... Just sayin'.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

LifeOfRiley said:


> Okay, that website alone was enough to make me cringe.
> Don't some of those dogs look a little tall? I mean like, outside of breed standard, tall? I know it's hard to tell sometimes from a photo on a website, but they don't look like they're of breeding quality to me. I'm sure they're wonderful dogs and would make great pets, but to breed them is reprehensible if those photos are a good representation of the dogs.
> 
> My Riley came from a horrible BYB who was in it for nothing but the money. Even SHE told me, when we were chatting, that there's technically no such thing as an "English Cream" Golden Retriever. If she knew that... Just sayin'.


Yes, but it's hard to tell how tall they actually are based on photos. My problem is with some scary toplines and rears that are iffy at best. Also some east west and narrow fronts. Nothing that I could call "exquisite conformation". 
Poor dogs. I would hope that when a "breeder" liquidates their kennel that the dogs would end up in loving homes, altered, where they don't have to continue living as puppy assembly lines.


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## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

Karen Weissling said:


> Our animals are our life -- we do nothing except take care -- EXCELLENT care -- of our companion animals.
> 
> If we are graced with golden puppies, we will screen potential families with the same selectivity as we do for all our puppies. They must own their home, which we will visit announced and unannounced. Obedience training will be highly recommended. All aspects of dog care will be copiously discussed. Any puppy that can no longer stay with its family is to be returned to us, for whatever reason. And we give $100 cash rebate when the owner spays or neuters their puppy.


Do you plan on doing this with the 14 Wheaten Terrier puppies that you just had? 

How is Darby, the malnourished and pregnant bitch that you bought back from the home that you had placed her in? Why was she not spayed before she was placed?


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

http://jacksonville.ebayclassifieds...ft-coated-wheaten-terrier-puppies/?ad=4431426


Wow. Selling dogs on eBay???? That really says a lot. Not knowing who you sell to, as long as they have $$$ is not "loving".


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

"A $100 rebate if you show that your puppy has been spayed or neutered" ????
And this falls under the heading of "responsible breeder" ????


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Just wanted to mention that Bea, my parents' dog was rescued from a situation similar to this. She and the BYB's other bitches were posted in the classifieds of the newspaper as breeding stock and a 'good investment' according to the rescue. So, the rescue swooped in and purchased the dogs from the man before he had the chance to let them fall into the hands of someone looking to make a quick buck. Thank God that they were there. All of the girls were spayed and placed into wonderful pet homes. How lucky for them... how unfortunate that the Magnolia girls won't also be retired from being puppy makers.

Bea hardly fits the golden standard, she has a thyroid problem that my parent's are in the middle of getting under control, but she definitely has that golden spirit.  It just saddens me how many of her offspring are out there... maybe tied to a dog house, dead, or worse- constantly abused and neglected. *sigh* 

I need to stop coming into threads like this one... yuck.


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

This thread makes me so sick I can barely stand it. Ebay?! What is the world coming to, my God.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Karen,
You say you plan on breeding them. I hope that you will do so few and far between. I dont know if you have looked at craigs list lately but in the last week there have been at least three people in the area listing puppies selling them so to me it looks as if there are alot of puppies out there and pretty cheap, so there is alot of people out there selling them. 

I hope you will get all the clearances done again on the dogs yourself to make sure they are up to date. Goldens are prone to so many problems with their hips, elbows, eyes and hearts so if they havent been done by a specialist recently there can be problems. You can tell that by reading alot of threads here in the health section of the forum. Become a member of the GRCA and your local Golden Retriever Club. http://www.grca.org/thegrca/code.html
The clearances should be done again not just one time. Get involved in shows, agility and other avenues with the dogs. Get involved with the rescues in your area. They take in alot of dogs that people dont want or dogs dumped in shelters. In this economy they are struggling all over the country with breeders shutting down, people losing their homes and not being able to keep their dogs, etc.


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## animallover (Jul 18, 2010)

My husband and I must be some of the dumbest people on earth. Went to a local farm and I could see they had several dogs. Why were we so trusting? Now she has a congenital defect under-bite. I pray we have no other problems. What makes me so mad (and sad) is that I helped the breeder to continue with what she is doing. Did I say she won't help us with cost of future oral surgery? I couldn't take Emma back. I don't trust her (and we already fell in love with Emma). I'm getting paperwork ready to send to an organization in PA to help with this situation.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

BeauShel said:


> Karen,
> You say you plan on breeding them. I hope that you will do so few and far between. I dont know if you have looked at craigs list lately but in the last week there have been at least three people in the area listing puppies selling them so to me it looks as if there are alot of puppies out there and pretty cheap, so there is alot of people out there selling them.
> 
> I hope you will get all the clearances done again on the dogs yourself to make sure they are up to date. Goldens are prone to so many problems with their hips, elbows, eyes and hearts so if they havent been done by a specialist recently there can be problems. You can tell that by reading alot of threads here in the health section of the forum. Become a member of the GRCA and your local Golden Retriever Club. http://www.grca.org/thegrca/code.html
> The clearances should be done again not just one time. Get involved in shows, agility and other avenues with the dogs. Get involved with the rescues in your area. They take in alot of dogs that people dont want or dogs dumped in shelters. In this economy they are struggling all over the country with breeders shutting down, people losing their homes and not being able to keep their dogs, etc.


 
Carol, your advice, while sound, is falling on deaf ears. This person is already selling Wheatons and Yorkies, hawking them on eBay and a myriad of Puppy4Sale sites, and has glommed onto yet another cash cow of a breed - our beloved Goldens. She obviously cares little for any of them (Ragtyme's post made the hair on the back of my neck stand up...) and is simply looking for more doggie dough-makers. Those Magnolia dogs are not cleared, and have been imported by ""breeders in Europe who also want to make a buck - they don't care who gets their dogs or what is done with them, as long as they get their (inflated) price. And those who purchase them and market them as "English Creams" blah blah blah - well, that poor horse has been beaten to death... 

It is beyond nauseating.


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

*
Could this just sum up this whole thread????????????? Sometimes I feel like we're just banging our head up against the wall!!!!!!



REMEMBER ME
ODE TO THE IRRESPONSIBLE BREEDER 
- Trudie James -*​ Remember me, though I know that you won't
I'm the pup that you bred, I'm the soul that you owned 

Remember my mum, though you'll just get confused
She's the bitch that you broke, she's the womb that you used 

Remember the vet that you didn't call
When the blood ran so dark in our cold dank stall 

Remember how cruelly you kicked me away
When I dared lick your hand - I just wanted to play 

Remember the age that you wrenched me from mum
With my hold on life fragile and my weaning not done 

Remember the home that you didn't check
That kept me outside with a chain round my neck 

You'll remember the blood money you exchanged for my life
You'll remember the goodies it bought you and the wife

Now imagine my fate and cringe with your shame
See my sad lifeless eyes and my skeletal frame 

I've known neglect and abuse I feared never would end
When Death came for your pup, it came as a friend 

There are thousands just like me in the yard, street and pound
And whilst bad breeders breed this grim cycle goes round 

You failed in your duty though I was born at your will
Now I'm your fatal shadow that walks by you still 

I hope, my cruel breeder, that your guilt's worth your gain
You filled your car with my fear, bought your beer with my pain 

But no act goes unnoticed and no sin goes unpaid
You'll account for my life at the end of your days 

I'll be right there beside you when at your Reckoning you stand
You'll remember me then - it's my blood on your hands .


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

You know... I've read this before and it chokes me up each time. The story it tells, yes, but also the fact that I KNOW that the people that this is written about, if they actually were to read it, would not be affected by it like us. That is the power of greed.





Gwen said:


> *REMEMBER ME*
> 
> *ODE TO THE IRRESPONSIBLE BREEDER *
> *- Trudie James -*​ Remember me, though I know that you won't
> ...


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I can only hope and pray since I am in the area and with the work with I do.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

It seems Karen stopped coming to this thread so wasn't able to benefit from reading the "Ode to..." poem so I PM'ed it to her


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## Karen Weissling (Jul 22, 2010)

Care to have the balls to post my reply? Hmmm?


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## Jleway (Mar 15, 2010)

lgnutah said:


> It seems Karen stopped coming to this thread so wasn't able to benefit from reading the "Ode to..." poem so I PM'ed it to her


Ha Ha... Nice! I cannot tell you how I am sick and tired of useless people creating useless death! I've had Golden Retrievers by my side for the past 16.5 years, I am completely in love with dogs, but especially this breed. They have taken my heart on the biggest joyride that I could have ever imagined. They have opened my heart to something that most humans that I have crossed paths with haven't been able to open to; love. Currently, I am not a breeder; but being a 'responsible breeder' is in the blood that runs through my veins. That blood is boiling. I hope and pray that she got the message, and if she loves her dogs the way that she supposedly does, that she won't allow herself to purchase the dogs. 

If she does, then she has no idea what being a 'responsible breeder' is all about. The Magnolia Hill's site is a joke... something to through out on a laugh floor! It is purely and simply.... a mockery! They are not in it to win it! They aren't in it to help goldens, but to help their wallets... or at least that's what they were! I thought that if you are a 'responsible breeder,' that you were only doing it for the breeds benefit, not for financial freedom! Magnolia's homepage with a PayPal logo on it!!! What!?!?! Just as bad as Ebay! I will pray for her... that she does the correct thing, that she allows these dogs to go to homes to be someone's companion... not a tool to be bred!


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## Jleway (Mar 15, 2010)

Watch it!!! Just sayin'!


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## Jleway (Mar 15, 2010)

If you do take these dogs.... please just promise me... a Golden Retriever lover... that you will require all buyers to sign a contract in front of you, with responsible stipulations, so that since-less deaths will not continue. Please, don't ship your puppies... know where they are going. 

Please promise that you will research the breed in and out before your purchase. I lost my first golden to cancer... a stupid breeding flaw! Don't make another person go through the heartache that I have due to thought-less breeding! It almost killed me. She was 11, I was only 17. 

I don't want to see another Golden have to die because there aren't enough homes to occupy the amount of Goldens that need homes. Just give us some reassurance that you do know what you are doing, because Golden Retrievers aren't just dogs. They are Godly creatures! They are the Cadillac of all dogs! They are like 6 year old humans stuck in furry four legged bodies... they are "Heart Keepers!"


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Karen Weissling said:


> Care to have the balls to post my reply? Hmmm?


 
Care to have the same to reply to Ragtyme's post? Hmmm??? How about selling dogs on eBay? Hmmm?


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Also, Ms. Breeder of the Year, you might want to REALLY check to make sure all the paperwork is legit. Some of the links on Magnolia Hills website are for pedigrees for dogs other than the one attached to. But, that probably matters little to anyone who buys dogs off Craigslist/eBay, etc in order to make a few extra bucks.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

This, is yet another case of a person only wanting money, will do whatever they can to get it, these poor animals, i hope someday, some how, these people will get coming to them, some of the pain, heart ache, these animals have to go through.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Karen Weissling said:


> And we give $100 cash rebate when the owner spays or neuters their puppy.


If I understand correctly then, you don't _require_ that the new owners spay or neuter? You just offer a cash incentive for them to do so? I'm sorry, but I feel that definitely falls short. 
An irresponsible owner would likely weigh your rebate against what they could make by having even just one litter of pups and believe me, the $100 won't seem like much of an incentive.
I just hope and pray that your pups get lucky and find their way to homes where the owners ARE responsible and know better. 



Karen Weissling said:


> Someone bred their dogs to give you your golden retriever, right? Is there any reason we shouldn't do the same?


Yes, they did and it's a very touchy subject for me. Do I regret getting him from a backyard breeder? On one hand, no - of course not. If we hadn't, we wouldn't have "our Riley" and we love this boy more than anything. So in that respect, I can never say that I regret it. 

On the other hand, yes I do regret it. Every single day. We knew what we were doing. We knew there were no clearances, we knew that we'd likely have health and temperament issues (we have both) and we took him not in spite of that, but because of it. If he were going to have problems, better that he come to us - people who were willing to deal with it and would love him no matter what. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. 
Yes, we saved Riley, but what about his nine littermates, what about the subsequent litters this breeder has undoubtedly turned out? What about the litters that those pups, in turn, have more than likely turned out because the breeder didn't require spay or neuter? We're likely talking about dozens of pups out there with health and temperament issues. How many of them have gotten as lucky as Riley did? I literally cry just thinking about it and knowing that we contributed.

So yes, there are reasons why you shouldn't do the same. Why _anyone_, unless they're going to breed responsibly, shouldn't do the same.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Karen Weissling said:


> Care to have the balls to post my reply? Hmmm?


So, why don't _you _reply? You claim to be so forthright, and make a challenge to a long time member here, put your money where your mouth is...

I'm sure it takes a while to come up with something that would justify what Magnolia Hills, and you, do.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

:--pipe: "Whistle while you wait..." (BTW, you can't send PM's until you've had 15 posts...)


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)




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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

The rescue here in Jacksonville took in and rehomed 500 goldens last year. That is alot of goldens for a town of this size. And if it keeps going like it has this year we will break that record this year, not a record we would like to break. Especially with donations down. But we do it because we love the dogs and will do continue to do it until there are no goldens needing homes. And lately in the last 12 months we have been getting in puppies from "breeders" not being able to sell puppies because of this economy so the puppy business isnt so great for golden puppies in this area. So dont be too quick to think you are going to make money off these dogs.


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## Jleway (Mar 15, 2010)

My hats are off to the great Golden Retriever Rescuers of Jacksonville! Thank God for people like you!


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

BeauShel
Thank you for what you do. It is a daunting job, though, isn't it when you have to deal with people who think "Oh I can sell puppies for $1000 each and all I have to do is get a female and breed her?"


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

Jleway said:


> My hats are off to the great Golden Retriever Rescuers of Jacksonville! Thank God for people like you!


Here Here!!! :appl:


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

How frustrating it is for those who rescue to come so close to helping dogs like the Magnolia Hills dogs, only to have it blatantly shoved in their faces that they've been sold and sentenced to a life of pumping out even more puppies, in an economically depressed area... It takes very special people to not throw their hands up in defeat. Thank you.


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

Gee, South Florida is lucky--Dade County is getting him. . .ugh. It'll be interesting to see how he adapts to living out in Homestead--that's out in the "country" but still, if you're going to have a commercial breeding operation, you have to agree to county inspections and licenses.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I need to make a correction. We took in over 100 goldens last year. The total of 500 saved was at the end of the year 2009 since we have been in existence. It is still alot of goldens for our area. Havent had a lot of sleep with my foster puppy. He is from a "breeder" that couldnt sell her product and turned them into us. Yes I worded it as product because to her all those sweet puppies were "product" to her. To me he is a sweet little guy that is going to make someone a great dog to be loved and spoiled.


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## Karen Weissling (Jul 22, 2010)

A few parting thoughts for you all, especially Pointgold. Your satement that there is no such thing as an English cream reminds me of people who believe the dinosaurs didn't exist because they are not mentioned in the Bible. (AKC = your Bible, get it?)

If you are so worried about the Magnolia Hills goldens, why don't you buy them? Ohh, you're not THAT worried. I see. 

It's a pity that you immediately slam anyone who doesn't share your exact beliefs. Had you learned to speak with a civil tongue, perhaps you would have stood a chance at changing my mind. As it is, your smarmy 'holier than thou' attitude soundly shut the doors of communication. Bet I'm not the first, nor the last.

Congratulations on being apapointment headmistress of the Mel Gibson School of Anger Management. I honestly feel sorry for any family you may still have, and I truly pity your dogs as no doubt they also bear the brunt of your childish, uncontrollable rage. 

This will be my last time visiting this board. I brought my sweet, beautiful English cream goldens home this afternoon, and I'll be spending a lot time with them. Perhaps you should do the same; it would be excellent therapy. Cluck-cluck as much as you like here; I won't be around. Any responses sent to my email address will be deleted unread.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Karen Weissling said:


> A few parting thoughts for you all, especially Pointgold. Your satement that there is no such thing as an English cream reminds me of people who believe the dinosaurs didn't exist because they are not mentioned in the Bible. (AKC = your Bible, get it?)
> 
> If you are so worried about the Magnolia Hills goldens, why don't you buy them? Ohh, you're not THAT worried. I see.
> 
> ...



Adios!!! :wavey:


I guess I should explain my reply. I LOVE when people feel the need to tell the world they are leaving and will not respond to anyone from this point on. :doh:
If that is what you wish to do then just do it, why all the drama?? :scratchch


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## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

Karen Weissling said:


> Care to have the balls to post my reply? Hmmm?


What reply would this be? So far the only posts we have seen from you were 1) crowing about the fact that you are going to be continuing pumping puppies out of these poor dog and lining another "greeders" pocket in the process, 2) a post spouting a mistaken assumption that there ARE such things as "English Creams", 3) a post stating that clearances have been done when none of the dogs listed on his site have any _*verifiable*_ clearances, and 4) a post questioning the testicular fortitude of an unnamed individual.

If you're so interested in seeing your reply posted, do it yourself.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

This thread is one of the most disgusting and despicable things I have read in a long time. Those poor dogs, going from one puppy factory to another. When will it ever end? Stupid question: It will end only when people stop being greedy, i.e., never. How very, very sad.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Karen Weissling said:


> A few parting thoughts for you all, especially Pointgold. Your satement that there is no such thing as an English cream reminds me of people who believe the dinosaurs didn't exist because they are not mentioned in the Bible. (AKC = your Bible, get it?)
> 
> If you are so worried about the Magnolia Hills goldens, why don't you buy them? Ohh, you're not THAT worried. I see.
> 
> ...


If you're truly flouncing off this forum, then why do I see the green light next to your name saying you're online? Just askin'.

And by the way, given that you seem to know little to nothing about the breed, if I were you I would save myself from trying to educate people who have loved this breed and been active with their dogs for decades. It's in poor taste and extremely tacky. Additionally, you're just plain wrong in almost everything you've said. You owe this board, and specifically PointGold, an apology.


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## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> If you're truly flouncing off this forum, then why do I see the green light next to your name saying you're online? Just askin'.


Shhh...she's trying to figure out how to write a reply that none of us will ever see or have the balls to post...:


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## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

Pedigrees for the dogs listed on Magnolia Hills site:

Dogs:
Gorge W Johnson - http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=300047
No verifiable CERF or OFA clearances listed

Phionix T Top - AKC # SR39999801
No verifiable CERF or OFA clearances listed

Miles Togo Johnson (listed as Golden Boy on the site) - http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=392489 - he's listed as a 100% English Cream but his sire was born in the US and his mother is 100% American
No verifiable CERF or OFA clearances listed

Jude Ben Johnson - http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=264976
No verifiable CERF or OFA clearances listed

Bitches: 
Kellev Muffin of the Morning Valley - http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=299168
No verifiable CERF or OFA clearances listed

Leah Elisha - http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=264977 - full sister to Miles
No verifiable CERF or OFA clearances listed

Merry Acres Cassie Of Tropico - http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=195284
No verifiable CERF or OFA clearances listed

Not listed but bred and/or owned by Magnolia:

Ella Marlene Johnson - http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=383620
No verifiable CERF or OFA clearances listed

Samson Von Baron Clark - http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=383619
No verifiable CERF or OFA clearances listed

Dona Angel Of Magnolia Hills - http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=392511
No verifiable CERF or OFA clearances listed

Macy Celebration Of Magnolia Hills - http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=392512
No verifiable CERF or OFA clearances listed


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## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

Oh look - she's got her Wheaten puppies posted on Craigslist:

http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/pet/1830246579.html
http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/pet/1841135923.html 

:yuck:


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

wonder how long before they disappear from k9data...



ragtym said:


> Pedigrees for the dogs listed on Magnolia Hills site:
> 
> Dogs:
> Gorge W Johnson - http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=300047
> ...


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

ragtym said:


> Oh look - she's got her Wheaten puppies posted on Craigslist:
> 
> http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/pet/1830246579.html
> http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/pet/1841135923.html
> ...


 
Craigslist and eBay. Two stellar venues for loving, caring breeders to sell their precious puppies. 

Sheesh.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Karen Weissling said:


> A few parting thoughts for you all, especially Pointgold. Your satement that there is no such thing as an English cream reminds me of people who believe the dinosaurs didn't exist because they are not mentioned in the Bible. (AKC = your Bible, get it?)
> 
> If you are so worried about the Magnolia Hills goldens, why don't you buy them? Ohh, you're not THAT worried. I see.
> 
> ...


This is SO typical. This reprehensible manufacturer, as opposed to reputable breeder, cannot give any honest, clear answers that would prove that anything that has been posted here is not true. So, because she cannot, rather than concede that those of us who actually know FAR FAR more about Golden Retrievers, and carefully, responsibly breeding them and placing them into the best homes possible (which can NOT be done via craigslist and eBay for God's sake...) she sputters and takes her dollies and storms off, with her last words being that we are horrid and have no idea what we are talking about. 
I sure won't be losing any sleep over her. I have a lovely family, fantastic friends, and dogs that I could not love more or be any prouder of. 
I will pray that her disgusting exploitation of her "English Creams", her Wheaties, and her Yorkies, is a failure and that no more puppies are produced for her profit and for rescue's to have to help.


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

Jackson'sMom said:


> This thread is one of the most disgusting and despicable things I have read in a long time. Those poor dogs, going from one puppy factory to another. When will it ever end? Stupid question: It will end only when people stop being greedy, i.e., never. How very, very sad.


Another answer--when people stop buying from these people--also probably never. Let's face the facts--this breeder was in business because of the product being produced--it was outside the norm, outside the standard--really not a "Golden" Retriever at all, but something marketed as exotic, from Europe, from England--Creme colored. People always like the idea of owning something exotic--but at what cost? Not checking health? That's a tremendous trade off.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Karen Weasle wrote: "A few parting thoughts for you all, especially Pointgold. Your satement that there is no such thing as an English cream reminds me of people who believe the dinosaurs didn't exist because they are not mentioned in the Bible. (AKC = your Bible, get it?)"

_People like you slam the AKC, yet happily use those initials to attempt to legitimize yourselves and to profit from purebred dogs. Get it?_

_and_

"If you are so worried about the Magnolia Hills goldens, why don't you buy them? Ohh, you're not THAT worried. I see."

_YOU don't "see"... BeauShel opened this thread indicating that they TRIED to purchase the dogs from Magnolia Hills. No sale. Wanna know what I think? I think that Magnolia Hills isn't liquidating at all, but rather is using the oldest slime-ball sales trick in the book to off some puppies, and a few dogs that likely aren't producing for him. Others will be bred..._ 

"Civil tongue"????? Hah. Your nasty little missive about a longtime member not having the "balls" to reply was lovely, and oh so ladylike. Cluck cluck.


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## sdain31y (Jul 5, 2010)

*Wow!*

WOW! Point and counterpoint for the _*REAL*_ reputable breeders.

I read somewhere on here about odd questions people get about their goldens and their breed. I've been asked a zillion times if Jazz is an English Creme since she is very light colored. I'm using the idea I stole from someone on the forum to answer that "nope, she's a Blonde Georgia Corn Dog!" Its always amusing to watch their face at that! Sometimes I admit she's a light golden, sometimes we just walk away giggling. :wavey::curtain:


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

And whew. Now that I got all that off my chest, (childish rage, pulling a Mel Gibson, etc etc) I DO apologize to any of the good members here who may have been offended by anything I wrote. I will not, however, apologize for my love of this (and so many other) breeds, and my passion and committment to assuring only the best for these dogs that give so much to us. I DO get angry when people like Magnolia Hills and this Karen person use them irresponsibly and without regard for the standards, health concerns, and who gets them or what happens to them after the "product" is sold. It is frustrating and so very sad for the dogs.


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## Kally76 (Jun 14, 2010)

cubbysan said:


> I recently met a beautiful golden from a breeder here in my city. The first well bred one I have seen since I live in the middle of puppy mills.
> 
> The owner of the dog would not give me the name of the breeder. She was very upset at the breeder, because the breeder had a clause in her contract that if she and her husband divorced the dog goes back to the breeder. I guess the breeder had checked up on her puppies quite frequently. Of course, maybe this breeder was a little overboard, but she was just being responsible for the puppies she brought into this world.
> 
> She was just trying to prevent somebody from doing exactly what Magnolia Hills was doing.


I really shouldn't even be posting on this thread. This is all way out of my expertise. But I would like to ad that I hope all dogs are found a home like this one. This lady is far more concerned that she may lose her dog in the future, than her husband. LOL!


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## Jleway (Mar 15, 2010)

Pointgold said:


> And whew. Now that I got all that off my chest, (childish rage, pulling a Mel Gibson, etc etc) I DO apologize to any of the good members here who may have been offended by anything I wrote. I will not, however, apologize for my love of this (and so many other) breeds, and my passion and committment to assuring only the best for these dogs that give so much to us. I DO get angry when people like Magnolia Hills and this Karen person use them irresponsibly and without regard for the standards, health concerns, and who gets them or what happens to them after the "product" is sold. It is frustrating and so very sad for the dogs.


You have no reason to apologize for speaking from your heart. If you need to apologize... then I should too! You know... the youtube video that showed the ugly truth to over breeding and my comments of, "I cannot tell you how I am sick and tired of useless people creating useless death!" But, I'm not going to apologize for standing up for something that I love. If I apologize, then I am saying that what I stand for is nothing, and my lovely Lady isn't nothing to me. She is my best friend. Golden Retrievers are not just "dogs" they are living breathing creatures that do nothing by stand by our sides, look at us with eyes of trust, and occasionally lick/kiss our hands. Goldens have almost a heavenly wisdom singing through their soul. I love them! You don't need to apologize, because I know from the words you have written that you feel the same. We should all be singing "For Pointgolds a jolly good fellow!" song to you. You spoke with passion not anger!


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

The only people in this thread who need to apologize are the two 'greeders' (I love that term) who exploit the innocent dogs in their never-ending pursuit of profit, lives be ******.


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

sdain31y said:


> WOW! Point and counterpoint for the _*REAL*_ reputable breeders.
> 
> I read somewhere on here about odd questions people get about their goldens and their breed. I've been asked a zillion times if Jazz is an English Creme since she is very light colored. I'm using the idea I stole from someone on the forum to answer that "nope, she's a Blonde Georgia Corn Dog!" Its always amusing to watch their face at that! Sometimes I admit she's a light golden, sometimes we just walk away giggling. :wavey::curtain:


You could always say you have a Boston Cream....


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## vixen (Jul 26, 2008)

quick post before this is locked LOL

I own a golden retriever from show line, I am in ENGLAND, and I have NEVER heard of an english cream, not untill I came to this site and saw the what idiot breeders in the us use as marketing, to mark up bog standard golden $200-$300

I not a breeder, but have been studying the breed fo the last 11 years in the UK, I have to say I think alot of the UK breeder that have there dogs in some of these marked up peds would be descusted.

Gonna go check the peds now to see what these so called english creams (tea anyone? lol) have behind them


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## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

Well, it looks like Karen took a breeding pair - she took the male named Gorge - http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=300047 and a less than 2 year old female named Haley 

:--evil:


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## eeneymeanymineymo (Oct 5, 2009)

I have been following this thread and find it amusing that "GORGE" was labeled an English Creme (or is it Cream? LOL) when if you look at his dam's pedigree, she is not even close to having English lines behind her when she has Goldrush in her pedigree heavily. How much more American can you get? And I doubt Ann Johnson ever owned this dog named Gorge as indicated on K9data. 

Interesting that Magnolia Hills doesn't have any blurb about going out of business on their website and I agree this is nothing but a marketing ploy to get people to buy their dogs, pups and breeding stock they no longer want. I believe Karen mentioned she paid way more than $ 350 for the dogs she was purchasing......really?! 

So tired of these types of breeders claiming English Cremes.....and the people who fall for it.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

Well, I'm sure this Karen person will more than get her money back when she starts mass-producing puppies.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Jackson'sMom said:


> Well, I'm sure this Karen person will more than get her money back when she starts mass-producing puppies.


If my hunch is correct, these dogs were likely sold because they were no longer producing for the original greeder - Magnolia Hills. Hopefully, this is the case, and greeder#2 won't get her money's worth out of them as a puppy assembly line, and she'll then dump them. And I pray that their THIRD owner will alter them and LOVE them as true companion dogs, not cash cows.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

eeneymeanymineymo said:


> I have been following this thread and find it amusing that "GORGE" was labeled an English Creme (or is it Cream? LOL) when if you look at his dam's pedigree, she is not even close to having English lines behind her when she has Goldrush in her pedigree heavily. How much more American can you get? And I doubt Ann Johnson ever owned this dog named Gorge as indicated on K9data.
> 
> Interesting that Magnolia Hills doesn't have any blurb about going out of business on their website and I agree this is nothing but a marketing ploy to get people to buy their dogs, pups and breeding stock they no longer want. I believe Karen mentioned she paid way more than $ 350 for the dogs she was purchasing......really?!
> 
> So tired of these types of breeders claiming English Cremes.....and the people who fall for it.


How "misguided". :


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

I am having trouble with what seems to me, please correct me , if i am wrong, that info, can be put into k9 data, that is untrue, i thought we as buyers looking for a golden, had this site to trust.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Information in k9data can be entered by anyone who is registered. There are some admins who "patrol" it and will remove false information if found, but it is not an "official" site by any means.

If you do find false info on k9data, I would report it and let them handle it. I have seen false OFA reports removed, and have seen several dogs "locked" because their owners (or others) insisted on putting inappropriate or untrue information into the system.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

That is really to bad, what about the ofa site?


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

goldensrbest said:


> That is really to bad, what about the ofa site?


offa.org is a database of clearances sent into OFA. Though breeders can choose to not publish failing results, you can not enter information (true or otherwise)... it's all posted by them.

Julie and Jersey


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

k9data is a valuable resource but it does depend on the honesty of those inputting information.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

If only we could put our trust into people, i guess one is just to use it as a resource, of course you can see on there one can sign up, just hoped there were safe guards in place.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

I was stunned when I read the suggestion that the original advertisement by Magnolia Hills "because I am divorcing I am forced to sell...." might be just a trumped up marketing ploy. That Magnolia Hills was using the ploy to get people to feel sorry for this poor person who because of misfortune, could no longer care for his animals. And what a sad world we live in--that people would use the K-9 site to deceive others. 

What a pity it is that, without regulation there is a segment of the population that is so focused on monetary gain that they have no qualms about being dishonest if it feathers their nest.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Yes, i think there is alot of those people.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Hi, Karen! (While her parting was such sweet sorrow, she does love us enough to keep coming back!)


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> And whew. Now that I got all that off my chest, (childish rage, pulling a Mel Gibson, etc etc) I DO apologize to any of the good members here who may have been offended by anything I wrote. I will not, however, apologize for my love of this (and so many other) breeds, and my passion and committment to assuring only the best for these dogs that give so much to us. I DO get angry when people like Magnolia Hills and this Karen person use them irresponsibly and without regard for the standards, health concerns, and who gets them or what happens to them after the "product" is sold. It is frustrating and so very sad for the dogs.


I don't see where you have anything to apologize for. If you HAD gone off in a rage, I think it would have been justified. 
If anyone has the right to blow their stack over this type of thing, it's the truly ethical, responsible breeders who get a bad name because of people like Ms. Weissling, and those who are involved in rescue and see, everyday, the consequences of irresponsible breeding.
Yeah, I think a little rage would be justified.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Apparently, Mr. Marlow's original Craigslist add was:
Kennel Closing Champions Need Home
Jul 14, 2010 *...* (*904*)*568-2136* [email protected]. Location: Live Oak/ Lee/Jacksonville; it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other *...*


Ha. Yet another yahoo who claims their dogs are champions.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

*Golden Retriever Puppies $300 (Live Oak/ Lee)*

Date: 2010-07-13, 6:06PM EDT
Reply to: [email protected] [Errors when replying to ads?]



They are truly a bundle of joy. 3 boys and 3 girls. They will be 8 weeks on this Saturday 07/17. All of their health records are current. Both of the parents are A.K.C. Registered Proven Champion Bloodlines (Awaiting your review) and are on the premises. The puppies however do not have papers, and that is why the adoption fee is so low. The reason for this is I am moving to Homestead and really need to find them good homes as soon as possible. They are full of energy and will be the perfect addition to any family. If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to text call or email (please see below). 
p.s. I completely understand that it is quite a distance away from Jax. I can possibly meet you if you are sincerely interested. Thank you for your understanding....$300 Adoption Fee. 

Chad Marlowe 
(904)568-2136 
[email protected] 


Location: Live Oak/ Lee
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

*Golden Retriever puppies $250 (Live Oak/Lee)*

Date: 2010-07-13, 4:03PM EDT
Reply to: [email protected] [Errors when replying to ads?]



I currently have 3 male golden retriever puppies that were born on March 26. They have all of their health records current. Both of the parents are A.K.C. registered and are on the premises. The puppies however do not have papers, and that is why the adoption fee is so low. They are full of energy and will be the perfect addition to any family or just as a friend. If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to text call or email (please see below). 

Chad Marlowe 
(904)568-2136 
[email protected] 


Location: Live Oak/Lee
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Hmmm... two different litters that are unregistered? Wonder why? Especially when the parents are "AKC registered proven Champion bloodlines"... Time to see if there was a suspension. OR, if these dogs actually ARE registered.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Just in case Karen Weisseling is watching (as she has been), she might find this interesting, if "misguided"...Cut and paste direct from the OFA database, after searching AKC database of registration numbers -



*** Gorge W Johnson on OFA database:
Refine this search
New search SR18314902 unknown other than as parent 

Jude Ben Johnson on OFA Database:
Refine this search
New search SR17953907 unknown other than as parent 

Phionix T Top on OFA database:
*No records matched your request. Please try again.*
*Having Problems? Some search problems*
*can be solved by starting fresh.*

Kellev Muffin of the Morning Valley on OFA database:
*No records matched your request. Please try again.*
*Having Problems? Some search problems*
*can be solved by starting fresh.*

Leah Elisha on OFA database:
Refine this search
New search SR16881206 unknown other than as parent 

Merry Acres Cassie of Tropica on OFA database:
Refine this search
New search SR21035101 unknown other than as parent 


Since Karen purchased Gorge, apparently, she, as a conscientious breeder who knows everything there is to know about Goldens, may want to "update" those health clearances she claimed she got.


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## 2DogsN3Cats (May 25, 2010)

I just read this whole thing and WOW am I disgusted at that skeezer who feels the need to join lines of being a mass producing BYB. If I lived near her Id probably go there pretending to want a puppy and knock her a good one...Cuz it would feel oh so good to pop her one for everyone who gives a pattootie about dogs in general let alone how many of us love and adore Goldens...

BTW: PointGold while I may find some things you say a little rough I dont think you have any reason whatsoever to apologize for anything you said in this threads. Hats off to you for being a good human being let alone a responsible breeder....


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Interesting... while it is "Chad Marlowe" who is liquidating Magnolia Hills kennel, he is not listed as the owner of "Gorge" Johnson...
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=300047

or "Muffin"

http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=299168


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Hi, Karen! :wavey:


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Wow... these people disgust me. I hope their guilt eats away at them, making it difficult to sleep at night.

But knowing their motive ($$$) they probably don't even know what guilt is.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Mssjnnfer said:


> Wow... these people disgust me. I hope their guilt eats away at them, making it difficult to sleep at night.
> 
> But knowing their motive ($$$) they probably don't even know what guilt is.


BINGO! There is no "guilt". Remember, _*we*_ don't know anything about Goldens, the AKC is our "bible", not believing in "English Creams" is misguided, and all those dogs have clearances and AKC papers (although why they'd want AKC _any_thing is beyond me...)


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

Guilt is a foreign concept to people like that. All they care about is making those big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Pointgold said:


> BINGO! There is no "guilt". Remember, _*we*_ don't know anything about Goldens, the AKC is our "bible", not believing in "English Creams" is misguided, and all those dogs have clearances and AKC papers (although why they'd want AKC _any_thing is beyond me...)


Hmm... I read that in the thread.

The Pocono White Mountain Dog isn't in the AKC either... but... I mean, it must be real, right? Because dinosaurs are. So. Yeah. 

:no:


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

The lucky lady who got these dogs off Craigslist also breeds Sphynx cats... a rare and undoubtedly expensive breed. 

I do like, though, that when you goodle the name "Karen Weissling" ... this thread pops up. Hopefully future puppy buyers will do their homework and see this thread.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Yeah, I like that on FB she calls herself a breeder of English Cream Goldens. She's never even had a litter of the non-existant breed, but she is a "breeder" of them!

Wheaties, Yorkies, English Creamies, and Sphynxs. Stellar.

Wonder if it matters one teeny weeny tiny iota that the dog that she was told had health clearances (Gorge) doesn't. And proveably doesn't. And the "dam" she bought is under two, so she doesn't, either. So, either the yahoo who sold them to her lied like a rug, and she was "had" (paying "considerably more thanb $350 dontcha know...) OR, she absolutely knows it and SHE lied here. Either way, they'll be bred. Here's hoping they do not produce. :crossfing


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> Yeah, I like that on FB she calls herself a breeder of English Cream Goldens. She's never even had a litter of the non-existant breed, but she is a "breeder" of them!
> 
> Wheaties, Yorkies, English Creamies, and Sphynxs. Stellar.
> 
> Wonder if it matters one teeny weeny tiny iota that the dog that she was told had health clearances (Gorge) doesn't. And proveably doesn't. And the "dam" she bought is under two, so she doesn't, either. So, either the yahoo who sold them to her lied like a rug, and she was "had" (paying "considerably more thanb $350 dontcha know...) OR, she absolutely knows it and SHE lied here. Either way, they'll be bred. Here's hoping they do not produce. :crossfing



It is obvious that Karen will be an even worse home for these two Goldens than Magnolia Hills kennel was, if that is even possible. This is such a crime she is doing this. Usually when dogs get out of a situation like Magnolia Hills it is for the better.


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## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> Yeah, I like that on FB she calls herself a breeder of English Cream Goldens. She's never even had a litter of the non-existant breed, but she is a "breeder" of them!


That's because "Would be 'greeder' of really light colored Goldens with questionable health histories" doesn't sound nearly as good :


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I really wish we had a million dollars to buy all those dogs to give to homes and for them to be trained if they qualified for soldiers needing them for therapy. They deserve so much better. And I would buy a large piece of property so I could have a big home for them all. It just breaks my heart.


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## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

BeauShel said:


> I really wish we had a million dollars to buy all those dogs to give to homes and for them to be trained if they qualified for soldiers needing them for therapy. They deserve so much better. And I would buy a large piece of property so I could have a big home for them all. It just breaks my heart.


I'm so sorry that it turned out this way - what a slap in the face for those of you who tried to save them from this


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I think the ethical failures here are pretty clear, but I don't think the piling on and personal attacks are appropriate, from _either_ side. I see that some individuals' behavior is irresponsible and unethical. However, I do not see the point in the name-calling or rising to the bait when someone is rude and provocative.

You can be right, but if you're going to be mean-spirited and personal, you stop looking like it.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

BeauShel said:


> I really wish we had a million dollars to buy all those dogs to give to homes and for them to be trained if they qualified for soldiers needing them for therapy. They deserve so much better. And I would buy a large piece of property so I could have a big home for them all. It just breaks my heart.


Once in a while we buy Powerball tickets and play a little game of "if we won..."

My first idea is always to buy a big farm for rescued Goldens to retire on.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Tahnee GR said:


> k9data is a valuable resource but it does depend on the honesty of those inputting information.


On the upside, you can see which registered user made what changes in the change history.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

tippykayak said:


> Once in a while we buy Powerball tickets and play a little game of "if we won..."


We do that too!!


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## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

tippykayak said:


> However, I do not see the point in the name-calling or rising to the bait when someone is rude and provocative.


Sorry, I called it as I see it. She's not breeding for the love of the breed, she's breeding for money. She's breeding "English Creams". She has yet to breed a single litter of Goldens and she's breeding at least one Golden who has no FINAL clearances.

"Would be 'greeder' of really light colored Goldens with questionable health histories" sounds like an apt description to me.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Some of us, especially those of us who have for so many years actually fought hard for the DOGS that are so affected by situations like this, and been emotionally and even financially drained by the likes of the people discussed here, just aren't as big a people as some, I guess, and our passion and yes, even bitterness, sometimes just spews out.

Sheesh.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

ragtym said:


> Sorry, I called it as I see it. She's not breeding for the love of the breed, she's breeding for money. She's breeding "English Creams". She has yet to breed a single litter of Goldens and she's breeding at least one Golden who has no FINAL clearances.
> 
> "Would be 'greeder' of really light colored Goldens with questionable health histories" sounds like an apt description to me.


I wasn't aiming my comments at anyone directly. There's a lot of passion here, all generated by love and caring for the innocent dogs who don't get to choose whether they end up with a caring person or a profiteer.

I think it would be more convincing to people on the fence, people who stumble across this thread with little knowledge of the breed and breeding practices, if we got a better handle on tone and focused on what's wrong and why it's wrong. I think name calling—though "greeder" is quite creative and apropos—runs counter to our purpose here.

As somebody whose passion and anger has gotten away from him on this board from time to time, I'm not trying to speak from any moral high ground. I'm just trying to step back and think about how we can have the biggest, best impact on the situation.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> Some of us, especially those of us who have for so many years actually fought hard for the DOGS that are so affected by situations like this, and been emotionally and even financially drained by the likes of the people discussed here, just aren't as big a people as some, I guess, and our passion and yes, even bitterness, sometimes just spews out.
> 
> Sheesh.


I wasn't calling anybody out. I'm trying to make a call for the kind of discussion that I believe stands the best chance of helping out the dogs. We should be able to put aside our need to vent or to engage in personal vendettas if it's in the dogs' best interest.

Ms. Weissling came into the thread defensively but didn't not initially attack anybody. She was attacked rather than given any opportunity to save face and perhaps learn something. I don't think that was in the dogs' best interest, even if it felt good to vent.

I believe that everything you said about breeding practices and the status of "English Cream" as a term is 100% correct. There may only have been a snowball's chance in Hades that Ms. Weissling would have come around, but now there's none at all. I think the forum rules about personal attacks and piling on exist for a reason and that if we can be more civil than confrontational, we might have greater power to educate folks.

Even if Ms. Weissling is a lost cause, I imagine someone coming into this thread with no knowledge of the breed and being very confused as to who is right.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I'm totally over trying to be "PC" with people like this.  We start out politely asking if clearances, etc are going to be done, and we're told that we know nothing.
Screw 'em. They don't care about the dogs, I don't care about _them. _

_5 years and some $30k later, I learned that people like this do not engage in "discussions". They simply pump out puppies and go to the bank._


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Decency goes a long ways, _especially_ when you're right.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

And the woman who bought these dogs so that she could attach an assembly line to them is a bastion of decency. And was incredibly charming to the members here. 

I've put my money where my mouth is when it comes to the dogs, thank you very much.


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## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

I do agree with the old "catch more flies with honey" thing and I've done exactly that when I felt that the person was willing to listen. 

But remember, this thread started out with a rescuer lamenting the fact that Magnolia Hills, rather than giving his dogs up to a rescue that would find them a good home, decided to advertise his dogs to the highest bidder on Craigslist. Ms. Weissling came in and immediately stated that she was going to buy 2 of these dogs and breed them - disregarding completely the post of the OP. She showed little to no respect for the OP and very little understanding of the hurt that she was causing.

I don't think there was even a snowball's chance that Ms. Weissling was going to listen to anything anyone here said, regardless of how "nice" someone was to her.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> And the woman who bought these dogs so that she could attach an assembly line to them is a bastion of decency. And was incredibly charming to the members here.
> 
> I've put my money where my mouth is when it comes to the dogs, thank you very much.


No, she was absolutely insulting and vulgar in several of her posts. But do you disagree that a more civil tone from _all_ involved would have been better? I'm making a call more to the regular forum members with proven track records of caring for dogs (like you) with the hope that we can do more good if we don't gang up and attack the people who are in the wrong.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

What is being overlooked here is that this woman has already been pumping out dogs and selling them via eBay and craigslist. Just because they aren't Goldens doesn't excuse it. She is what she is and has been for some time. That leopard is not changing its spots.

I'm perfectily fine with what I posted. No more lectures for me tonight. Thanks.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

ragtym said:


> I do agree with the old "catch more flies with honey" thing and I've done exactly that when I felt that the person was willing to listen.
> 
> But remember, this thread started out with a rescuer lamenting the fact that Magnolia Hills, rather than giving his dogs up to a rescue that would find them a good home, decided to advertise his dogs to the highest bidder on Craigslist. Ms. Weissling came in and immediately stated that she was going to buy 2 of these dogs and breed them - disregarding completely the message of the OP. She showed little to no respect for the OP and very little understanding of the hurt that she was causing the OP.
> 
> I don't think there was even a snowball's chance that Ms. Weissling was going to listen to anything anyone here said, regardless of how "nice" someone was to her.


Perhaps not. But what about somebody who doesn't know much about Goldens and breeding practices who searches for this woman's name or the Magnolia Hills dogs? How could they tell who's wrong and who's right when both sides are on the attack? It's not enough just to have the moral high ground if we can be drawn into a name-calling fight.

Please don't think I'm defending Ms. Weissling in any way. I have little hope that a call to her decency or better nature will have any effect. However, I do have hope that when the anger comes from a love for Goldens, the better natures of our forum members will shine through if we step back and think about the best way to educate people.

We don't have to be nice, but I think more civility would make it clearer who's right and who's wrong. The facts speak for themselves; the attacks cloud the issues.

I have no interest in calling individuals out for this or that comment. Lord knows I've made my share of ill-considered posts. I just hope from here on forward that we can be more civil and therefore more effective. We have this situation all the time: a breeder is mentioned and then somebody signs up for the board to pick a fight. When we give it to them, I think we lose an opportunity to educate not necessarily that angry individual, but others who read the thread.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> What is being overlooked here is that this woman has already been pumping out dogs and selling them via eBay and craigslist. Just because they aren't Goldens doesn't excuse it. She is what she is and has been for some time. That leopard is not changing its spots.
> 
> I'm perfectily fine with what I posted. No more lectures for me tonight. Thanks.


I certainly have not overlooked that. I just don't think we need to divide the breeding world into good guys and bad guys and go on the attack. I don't think it helps shut down bad breeders when we attack them on the board. I think it would help more if we pointed out what's wrong with bad breeders without insulting them on a personal level.

I think we would do the dogs better service by keeping the high ground. If the bad breeder isn't doing anything illegal, we can't stop them, and we certainly can't stop them by making snarky comments. We need to educate buyers with facts and ethics. We don't accomplish that by baiting, attacking, and insulting people, even if what they're doing is wrong.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I find that the members on this forum are quite adept at reading those that they respond to and can post accordingly. ie when someone is obviously in a position to take away something from those who have knowledge on a subject they are polite, and civil. And when there are people such as the one in question here, as well as so many others that we've started out well with and watched it turn, then yes, responses can reflect that frustration and anger. Interesting to me, though, is that certain people have found what so many consider to be truly offensive posts by certain members (banned more than once...) to be funny and "refreshing". And the definition of "attack" always is confounding to me here.
Guess it just depends on who it is...

I stand by my posts, and those of the members who posted to this thread and were insulted by this woman and angered by her exploitation of these (and other) dogs and cats.

I say tomato, you say tomahtoe...


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I too am always confused by the standards of who is banned and who is not, based on my reading of the forum rules and the posts of those individuals.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I started this thread because I was so angry about this breeder selling his dogs on craigs list and worried about the dogs being sold cheap for someone to buy and keep breeding pups. And hoping to get those dogs before they could be sold. But unfortunately it hasnt worked out that way. But we have learned alot about the breeder and the new buyer so hopefully people looking for pups will see this and will know what to look for in a responsible breeder. Look at the www.grca.org and their local golden retriever club for puppy referrals. And also check out the Puppy Finder Fact Checker at the top of the forum page. So I am closing this thread.


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