# Article Help



## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

My boy is a hard core retriever. Field work is what he lives and dies for. He has been force fetched, and included in that is force to pile. All of that is great when we are doing field work...but I'm having troubles teaching him articles, I believe as a result of that. 

If I send him to the article pile (usually consisting of 3 articles right now), he just grabs something and comes back. Sometimes we have flashes of brilliance where he grabs the right one but usually it's the first one he can grab. If I try to say "no" or "wrong one" he stops and looks at me like a deer in headlights. 

I've tried to explain it to him many ways: 1) we went through putting cheese whiz on the right article. He would get the right article as long as there was cheese whiz on it but as soon as we tried to fade the cheese we were back to grabbing the first article. 2) we tried the tie down method. This resulted in him picking up every single article and yanking it to see the free one. Occasionally, he would get frustrated and just bring the whole board back. 3) we tried just putting down one scented one and one non-scented one and clicking and treating whenever he got the right one. This for some reason stressed him out and resulted in no-gos. 

Any ideas? I would LOVE to figure out how to teach him this.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think you need to slow down. Sounds like you are trying to go too fast. I would start by working in a quiet, close location. Don't try to go full distance. I just started Dooley and am about 5 feet away from the pile and working in the garage. At this time, I have two tied down articles and one scented. I am starting with only leather articles on the board. Using Bridget Carlsens method. She uses food on and around the scented article. Then she starts putting small pieces of food around the board, near the the tied down articles, but jackpot the scented one. This gets him to sniff the tie downs, but concentrate on the scented ones. Slowly remove the food, get closer and work calmer.

You could also try something that doesn't look like an article, say a tea ball. There is a You Tube video of a gal training with tea balls, and I wanted to try this, but could not find tea balls in my location. I'll try to find it and attach it to this post. Gabby may be associating the traditional articles with bumpers. 

I'm hoping someone with more current training expertise will respond, as it has been 20 years since I trained a utility dog. I just started working with Dooley on articles.

Here is the video I was talking about:





 
Notice how close she is working the dog?


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

I can totally see why FTP would make him want to grab up the first article he sees. I never even thought about that before... 

My thought would be to back up a bit and start using something that doesn't look like a pile, and something he can't pick up. I think he needs to have the idea down pat and then slowly transition to smaller/more piled articles. I started my pup on three bowls turned over with food under the one that I touched. Start with big pieces of nice smelly food and then decrease the amount of food. The key is to get him to indicate in some why which one you scented. I taught my pup to paw the right one. I think, since you have FF, that you will easily be able to transition this to a pick up. 

He needs to learn how to slow down and use his nose, not just grab, like he has been taught for the field. 

good luck!


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## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

I train with Bridget and echo what Laura says. However, I started with metal articles. All are tied down now and we have three leather ones tied down. I stopped using food on the scented article because we do tracking and he understands what he needs to do when I say "find it". I know Bridget also uses kitchen utensils when article training.

When I read your post I did smile. I started doing field work with my guy about a month ago. We did field work where we have tracked before and he wanted to track his mark. We got over that. Then this week I went tracking with him and the track was partially laid where we did marks (our trainer didn't know). He found the first 3 articles perfectly and then missed the 4th but then started acting like he was looking for a mark .....


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I do field, obedience and agility and have serious reservations about FTP for just that reason. I mean, how often would there be multiple birds in one location anyway?

That said, I train scent articles using a combination of the clicker and around the clock method. My articles are never tied down since a strong retriever will often bring the whole board or mat back (ask me how I know this) issuing self corrections as the board whacks them - not a good thing.

If you can secure the board the tie down method may work, but can also encourage your dog to nose the articles to see what is loose. And since your dog is already frustrated with the board, I personally would not use it - I've had 2 dogs become very frustrated with the board and just wont use it anymore.

For scent articles I prefer to let the dog experiment with what gets rewarded or not rewarded. Wrong article, so sad no reward. Right article, he gets to deliver the article to my hand (carries over into the ring) and then be rewarded. 

Specifically, I do use Cheez Whiz on the desired article at first, then use the clicker to mark the behavior of finding it, then licking it, then opening his mouth etc. If your dog is stressing with the clicker, back up and give more feed back. A dog who has been through traditional field training often has learned not to experiment - and please I do not mean this in a negative way but traditional training often inadvertently teaches a dog that a mistake is wrong. In your dogs mind it might be better to no-go than risk a mistake. So, toss the article into a pile to get his excitement up. Let him know he can experiment while learning. That, at least for articles, a mistake just means no reward and he gets to try again. 

About the clicker - has he learned to work for the click? Has the clicker been loaded?


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I like doing a combination of Around the Clock and tie downs. I start by using squirt cheese on the scented article, and I also tie down the unscented ones. That way the dog is learning to use his nose to find the correct one, but still gets a correction when he grabs the wrong one (usually not until the cheese has been faded, and the dog already has an idea that he is supposed to be using his nose). I keep the articles loose enough that they can't tell if it's the right one just by nudging it, but short enough that they can't lift the article too high before being told it's not right.

When tying down, make sure you keep them far enough away from the edge that the dog has to stand on the mat or board to get the article. The makes it a lot harder for the dog to bring the whole thing back to you.

I do not like working small article piles. I start off by using Around the Clock's method of starting with one scented article and adding an extra unscented one on each send, so you are already working a full pile the first session. Once the dog is working articles well I regularly work with more than a full pile. I want the dog to know that it might take some time before he finds the right one, and not to give up to quickly.

I would definately stay close up until the dog understands this is not a retrieve. Taking the run out of it makes it less of a retrieve game to them and gives you more control.

When my dog picks up a wrong article and it is not tied down, I tell the dog immediately that he is wrong and I go take it from him.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

I used the tie down method and it was amazingly easy. One thing that was pretty much drilled into me by a trainer is do NOT correct at the pile. That is how you end up with all those "stressy" article pile behaviors that become even more exaggerated at a trial.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

BayBeams said:


> I used the tie down method and it was amazingly easy. One thing that was pretty much drilled into me by a trainer is do NOT correct at the pile. That is how you end up with all those "stressy" article pile behaviors that become even more exaggerated at a trial.


I know a lot of people have that perception, but I go about it the opposite way. I want my dog to know that if I am silent, that means he is right (since I will have to be silent in a trial), and I want him to know that I will let him know if he is wrong. I don't want any question in his mind, because I think a lot of stress behaviors show up as a result of a dog's uncertainty. So if my dog isn't working the pile (whether it is because he is freezing, or looking at a distraction, or whatever), I will immediately correct him. If he picks up a wrong article, I will immediately correct him. It's information for him. I try to provide as much information to my dogs as I can about if they are right or not, and I don't want to delay that information until they are away from the pile.


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

Loisiana said:


> I know a lot of people have that perception, but I go about it the opposite way. I want my dog to know that if I am silent, that means he is right (since I will have to be silent in a trial), and I want him to know that I will let him know if he is wrong. I don't want any question in his mind, because I think a lot of stress behaviors show up as a result of a dog's uncertainty. So if my dog isn't working the pile (whether it is because he is freezing, or looking at a distraction, or whatever), I will immediately correct him. If he picks up a wrong article, I will immediately correct him. It's information for him. I try to provide as much information to my dogs as I can about if they are right or not, and I don't want to delay that information until they are away from the pile.



That is a really cool way of thinking about it. 

Also, I hadn't thought about staying super close- it makes perfect sense though! 

He and I have been struggling with this off and on for 6+ months and I have been super frustrated lately so I just put it away for a couple of weeks...so I will get out everything tonight and play with it!


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## wakemup (Feb 6, 2011)

I use food and hot scent on the right article, and tie down AND tiny spritz of Bitter Apple on the wrong ones. Start with two metal, gradually work up to five metal, then start leather. Big jackpots etc. for correct response. I've never had a dog that didn't start to sniff in the first session. My first dog was as you described, bringing back the entire board or ripping it off the wire. A breeder friend told me to try this, and I've since used it with six Utility dogs. Sounds crazy, but it works for me. Have fun with Utility, as it is (IMO) the funnest when it goes well!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Take the speed and distance out of it ... the things that help make it look like a retrieve. I started out with Quiz standing right above three articles, one scented, and used the clicker to quickly shape interest in the scented one. Getting the retrieve part was a no brainer once he figured out it was the scented one that = reward.


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