# Primarily a hunting dog



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

We are back from our morning of pheasant hunting, and what a morning it was!
Tito flushed 9 birds in 2 hours. What a nose this dog has, so typical of the goldens. He tracked the birds like crazy, excellent persistence, and when he was on a bird we just stood quietly and let him do his thing. It was awesome. He was giving me goosebumps he was so good at it!
The thing I didn't like was that the cover was very tall and thick, and about 90% of the time I couldn't see the dog. That's a huge leap of faith for me. I could hear his cowbell most of the time, and could sometimes see the weeds moving where he was. But it did scare me. The cover in the photo behind my friend is typical of what Tito was hunting in.
The really bad moment was when my friend missed a shot, and Tito took off after the bird. That's been my fear with him, and sure enough, he did it today. The cover is so tall and heavy that we couldn't see him AT ALL and had no idea where he had gotten to. I went into heart failure. He was gone for probably 60 seconds, which felt like a lifetime. I was calling him and whistling him in, and he came charging back from a completely different direction from the direction we had last seen him heading. So that was scary stuff. My friend said that he trusts Tito won't go anywhere, as soon as he realized he couldn't catch the bird he turned back. But still...
Anyway, we had a fabulous time. Here are a couple of photos of Tito with my good friend that took us hunting this morning.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Good boy Tito  Sounds like a GReat day to be 'primarily a hunting dog' and giving your people cause to smile & be proud !!


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

My girls are SO jealous of Tito!!!
And I bet you will think twice before complaining about the cover at a hunt test in the future.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Good job Tito!! 

That panic feeling is never good- glad it was for such a short time!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Funny thing, Hank, I am one of few people who doesn't complain about heavy cover at the tests. Tito does better in heavy cover than lighter cover. He LOVES to be in there, and will seek it out. He, um, goes where the birds "ought to be", not where they "are". I love to see heavy cover at hunt tests. We do have very heavy cover in this area.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Tito so deserves these pictures to make up for the previous hat pic. I hope you didn't tell him that you posted that on the forum!!!!

Good job TITO!


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Nice pictures. BTW, don't you feed Tito and get him "dates"? Not likely he would run away---he has it too good.


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## FeatherRiverSam (Aug 7, 2009)

Atta boy Tito...fetch 'em up. Looks like it was a good day to be a retriever. This must have been at a club?....so many birds!

I feel your anxiety...we had an English Setter take off after a jack rabbit on a pheasant hunt once and we all wondered whether or not we'd ever see her again.

Great pictures...one and all!

Pete


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Great job, Tito.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

gdgli, I always say Tito has the best F'ing life you can imagine...food, feathers, and females!
Pete, it's at a public hunting area, not a club. They release birds there every morning, though. There are LOTS of birds out there!


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## FeatherRiverSam (Aug 7, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> gdgli, I always say Tito has the best F'ing life you can imagine...food, feathers, and females!
> Pete, it's at a public hunting area, not a club. They release birds there every morning, though. There are LOTS of birds out there!


Well it looks like Tito got a good percentage of 'em! Food, feathers and females...no wonder he's always SMILING! 

Pete


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Woooeeee, atta boy Tito!
Barb, what an amazing morning, primarily a hunting dog indeed.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

I can't tell you how much I love seeing those pictures of Tito, it makes me happy to see such a gorgeous golden doing his job. Thanks for posting


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Ever since your post I have been thinking pheasants. Since Rose can't hunt them yet nbsmokehouse may just have to bring them to me via UPS.


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## KathyG (Nov 21, 2011)

So jealous........looks like a great time was had by all.

Kathy


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## Jen & Brew (Oct 11, 2012)

That is so cool! I can't wait for hubby to start hunting with Brew! Did you train Tito yourself for hunting?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Jen, we take private lessons a couple of times a month from a really great trainer who manages a hunt club, and trains dogs to hunt for a living. But yes, I've done all the training myself. It's been a BLAST!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> We are back from our morning of pheasant hunting, and what a morning it was!
> Tito flushed 9 birds in 2 hours. What a nose this dog has, so typical of the goldens. He tracked the birds like crazy, excellent persistence, and when he was on a bird we just stood quietly and let him do his thing. It was awesome. He was giving me goosebumps he was so good at it!
> The thing I didn't like was that the cover was very tall and thick, and about 90% of the time I couldn't see the dog. That's a huge leap of faith for me. I could hear his cowbell most of the time, and could sometimes see the weeds moving where he was. But it did scare me. The cover in the photo behind my friend is typical of what Tito was hunting in.
> The really bad moment was when my friend missed a shot, and Tito took off after the bird. That's been my fear with him, and sure enough, he did it today. The cover is so tall and heavy that we couldn't see him AT ALL and had no idea where he had gotten to. I went into heart failure. He was gone for probably 60 seconds, which felt like a lifetime. I was calling him and whistling him in, and he came charging back from a completely different direction from the direction we had last seen him heading. So that was scary stuff. My friend said that he trusts Tito won't go anywhere, as soon as he realized he couldn't catch the bird he turned back. But still...
> Anyway, we had a fabulous time. Here are a couple of photos of Tito with my good friend that took us hunting this morning.


 
What a BLAST! I love pheasant hunting. Good boy, Tito!!!
You would _really _have heart failure hunting over the Pointers... they work out SO darn far... but there is nothing more amazing than watching a beautiful dog working and loving what they are doing. Glad you had such a fun morning.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

No kidding!! I can't imagine having my dog 400 yards away, out of sight, for long periods of time! But I've seen them work, and they are awesome. Not for the faint of heart, though (which would be me).
I was, I guess, kind of surprised at how little hunt tests (AKC or HRC) have anything to do with hunting after we experienced our pheasant hunt. Sure, they are a very fun game, and they do show the dog has some instinct, but it is nothing like getting them out in the field and letting them "hunt 'em up", flush, and retrieve the bird. 
Tito says forget the titles, THIS is what he was born to do.



Pointgold said:


> What a BLAST! I love pheasant hunting. Good boy, Tito!!!
> You would _really _have heart failure hunting over the Pointers... they work out SO darn far... but there is nothing more amazing than watching a beautiful dog working and loving what they are doing. Glad you had such a fun morning.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> No kidding!! I can't imagine having my dog 400 yards away, out of sight, for long periods of time! But I've seen them work, and they are awesome. Not for the faint of heart, though (which would be me).
> I was, I guess, kind of surprised at how little hunt tests (AKC or HRC) have anything to do with hunting after we experienced our pheasant hunt. Sure, they are a very fun game, and they do show the dog has some instinct, but it is nothing like getting them out in the field and letting them "hunt 'em up", flush, and retrieve the bird.
> Tito says forget the titles, THIS is what he was born to do.


I'm so glad that you went afield to hunt. Glenda Brown recently wrote that she is a proponent of having conformation judges go afield to experience hunting to see what it is really all about.

Tito says forget the titles. Tito is a wise man.

I hope there are more hunts for you and Tito in the future.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Hoping to go later this week  
One thing that really struck me is that, when you go pheasant hunting, you just turn the dog loose, tell him "bird out there, hunt 'em up" or something similar, and let him do his thing.
He is expected to get into very heavy cover, and use his nose to find the bird. When he scents it, he is expected to stay on its trail until he locates it, and with pheasants chances are they are hunkered down tight into the cover (Tito's nose is just now healing up). He is expected to find that bird, even it it takes 10 minutes to do so, and never give up (Tito didn't ever show any signs of giving up a bird scent he located, no matter how long he had to follow it to find the bird). 
He is allowed to break to follow the bird, because it's the only way he's going to be able to mark the fall in the tall and heavy cover. If it's a cripple, it can get pretty far away and he needs to be on its trail, in pursuit, watching it go down.
Now compare that to running a blind.
"Dead bird". Dog is lined up, headed in a specific direction. Pretty much told do NOT use your nose, no matter what. Even if you smell the bird, do NOT go in a direction different than where I sent you, even if I happen to be wrong about where the bird is. Blinds that I've seen (at all test levels) are not in cover anywhere near what the actual pheasants are hiding out in when you hunt, because you wouldn't be able to see the dog.
Sure, a blind tests his level of control. But hunting, ah, that tests his level of inborn ability!
Now that I've seen Tito truly hunt, I know what "style" is. Now that I've seen him hunt, I know what "perserverance" is. I know what a "good nose" is. And so on.
I think ALL hunt test judges, not just conformation people, should be required to watch a real hunt.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

More random thoughts...
Now I understand a lot of stuff that Dan has always told me about Tito. I didn't really get it before.
I've commented many times that the Monster Boy always heads for heavy cover if there's any around, and I've had to fight it with him constantly both with marks and especially with blinds. Dan has said he goes where the bird "should be", that Tito has tons of instinct, and to not get upset with him. Now I understand.
I've mentioned how independent he is when hunting up something in the field. Now I understand why that was bred into them. 
I understand him "working the wind" instead of resisting it.
And lots more.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

And the need for the dog to be conditioned? You know, the dog should be in hard working condition.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> No kidding!! I can't imagine having my dog 400 yards away, out of sight, for long periods of time! But I've seen them work, and they are awesome. Not for the faint of heart, though (which would be me).
> I was, I guess, kind of surprised at how little hunt tests (AKC or HRC) have anything to do with hunting after we experienced our pheasant hunt. Sure, they are a very fun game, and they do show the dog has some instinct, but it is nothing like getting them out in the field and letting them "hunt 'em up", flush, and retrieve the bird.
> Tito says forget the titles, THIS is what he was born to do.


YES! "Real" hunting is quite different. 
Any way you look at it, though, watching a dog do what it was designed to do is a thing of beauty.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> Hoping to go later this week
> One thing that really struck me is that, when you go pheasant hunting, you just turn the dog loose, tell him "bird out there, hunt 'em up" or something similar, and let him do his thing.
> He is expected to get into very heavy cover, and use his nose to find the bird. When he scents it, he is expected to stay on its trail until he locates it, and with pheasants chances are they are hunkered down tight into the cover (Tito's nose is just now healing up). He is expected to find that bird, even it it takes 10 minutes to do so, and never give up (Tito didn't ever show any signs of giving up a bird scent he located, no matter how long he had to follow it to find the bird).
> He is allowed to break to follow the bird, because it's the only way he's going to be able to mark the fall in the tall and heavy cover. If it's a cripple, it can get pretty far away and he needs to be on its trail, in pursuit, watching it go down.
> ...


Yes, this kind of hunting, upland hunting, is quite different from what we are asked to do in tests. Even waterfowling requires a slightly different application of the skills we train for. I have shot birds that landed deep in the tules--you have to line the dog up as if for a blind, send them in and then give them a hunt it up/hunt dead command. I always put a command on it so the dog knows they have permission to be self-employed in that situation. At other times when I know where the bird is but it is not as obvious to the dog (such as a bird down in the decoys) then I maintain control right to the bird. The tests are testing the skill set and degree of control that a capable gundog should possess--the situational aspects that come up in real hunting would be both difficult to replicate and to judge in a test situation, yet that basic skill set for which we are testing does give the dog the foundation tools it needs to get the work done.


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## love never dies (Jul 31, 2012)

love the photos


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

oh and absolutely in hard working condition!! For a couple of hours he was running back and forth quartering, chasing birds, retrieving, I'm sure he covered several miles thru very thick, heavy cover, often on soft, muddy ground. 
Hard working condition is critical.


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## Leslie B (Mar 17, 2011)

I had to laugh when I read about you going nutty when you couldn't see Tito. When I first when out hunting with my husband, I would hate it when our boy Sam was out of my sight. I was sure he would be lost. My husband (frustrated) finally told me that "just because I did not know where the dog was did not mean the dog did not know where I was!!!" 

Sure enough, Sam has never really been lost even though I have not always known where he is at the moment.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

yep, they come charging back thru the cover, bird in mouth, grinning from ear to ear!


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## Leslie B (Mar 17, 2011)

My favorite was when Dan sent the dog off to retrieve a duck in the worst cover. The reeds were very tall and about a foot of water. He figured it would take the Sam a while to find the duck and return to the point where they usually hunt from (he had moved down the shore for the incoming ducks). The dog beat him back to the point with a look of "where have you been" on his face. Of course he was still holding the duck.


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## PrincessDaisy (Dec 20, 2011)

Have never seen Goldens flushing before. That should be a sight. Congrats on a good day in the field.

So, hunt tests could be detrimental to Daisys natural retrieving skills when actually hunting birds? Help me out here, please.

Max


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks Max, it's wonderful to watch him flush birds. It's what he was born to do, and it shows when he gets out there.
A lot of people run hunt tests and also hunt with their birds, and it doesn't seem to ruin their ability. But sometimes you do need to remind your dog of the "rules" of the hunt tests, it seems, since there's a lot more freedom for the dog in actual hunting.


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## PrincessDaisy (Dec 20, 2011)

Thanks, that makes sense. My doctor is on me about getting out and doing more stuff NOT related to the job and our business (sitting at a desk at both) and the Princess needs to run free more, and I only get 10 to 15 days a year hunting so I have been researching hunting skill games for us. Shes a natural retriever, so HRC style hunt tests seem a natural fit. I'll be visiting two clubs events over the next two months. The trick will be getting her qualified for registration (see http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...8-help-nailing-down-pedigree.html#post2268202 ).

Oh, and when the next $3.50 moment occurs, remember, I have a standing offer of $11.25.

Max


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## FeatherRiverSam (Aug 7, 2009)

Barb I've really enjoyed this thread reading about what Golden's were bred to do...hunt. A couple of questions...but first let me give you a bit of my background. I've hunted over English Setters for most of my adult life and primarily for pheasant. For me there was nothing more pleasing than to see one of these dogs work a field and the icing on the cake was always to see them come on point and hold that beautiful point while you took your time getting there. 

The beauty of a Setter was no matter how far they ranged out you knew if they came upon a bird they'd hold that point. These were all my fathers dogs even though all of his kids felt like they were there's as well. I think such is the case with any well loved family dog.

I knew when I was able as much as I loved the Setters my first dog would be a Golden as they completely fit my life style. It took losing my job and an early retirement to finally put one in place but I did. Welcome FeatherRiverSam, Sammie, now my bridge girl.

When I got her as 9 week old pup I moved to the mountains to train her as a bird dog, armed with several books and videos I was determined to train her to be the best bird / flyfishing dog on the planet. She was a natural born retriever but a world apart from the setters I was raised with.

My plan was to focus on waterfowl as pheasant in this neck of the woods just weren't around and besides duck is much more to my liking than than pheasant. I worked with her relentlessly and after a couple of years I had what I considered to be a very well trained dog. She was great with multiply markings, directional hand commands and most importantly you could tell she really loved what she was doing.

I never did get a chance to hunt pheasant with her but we did do quite a bit of Mountain Quail hunting. I never intended to do any field work with her I just wanted a well trained, happy girl.

One thing I always wondered about in comparing her with the Setters was what it was like to hunt over a flusher in a wide open field. Where the Setters would hold that inspiring point forever no matter how far out they were what would my Sammie do in the same open field? She had a tendency to range quite a bit and I often wondered how in the world I'd be able to bring down a bird flushed well out of range? Was this something you trained for, keeping the dog within range when hunting pheasant?

She was quite the girl and lord knows I miss her to this day. My Woody on the other hand is a total goofball...you throw a tennis ball his way and he watches it roll bye...not even giving it a second thought and continues to greet you with a speedy / happy tail and a big arouuuuuuuuu!

Sorry this is so long...shouldn't have had that second drink...I don't think there's anything more rewarding than watching your dog work. You must be in seventh heaven with Tito.

Pete & Woody


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

With a flusher you do need to train them to stay in gun range, and you have to be very aware of the body language that tells when they are on a bird. I do waterfowling and upland with my dogs and they know the rules are a bit different for each. But they learn really fast to stay in gun range when doing upland--I just use the double-toot to change direction when they start to range too far. My Winter gets it so well that he will check in on his own to ensure he is still in range--he does not like flushing birds that cannot be shot--he wants to retrieve them!

The only thing I find with the way I have trained mine in upland work is a conflict with HRC upland tests. Because we are usually hunting either brush, or fencerows beside fields with standing crops, I only require my dogs to be steady to flush and to honour the shot--once that bird is tumbling they are allowed to go for it--otherwise we would lose birds. In the tests they want the dogs remaining steady until realeased after the bird hits the ground. So I just don't run those tests!!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Shelly gave a great answer.
We did teach Tito to be steady to shot. As soon as that bird flushes, his fluffy butt hits the ground until he's sent.
Ditto what she said about being in gun range, a soft double whistle brings him back to gun range, but he tends to check in on his own anyway.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

sterregold said:


> With a flusher you do need to train them to stay in gun range, and you have to be very aware of the body language that tells when they are on a bird. I do waterfowling and upland with my dogs and they know the rules are a bit different for each. But they learn really fast to stay in gun range when doing upland--I just use the double-toot to change direction when they start to range too far. My Winter gets it so well that he will check in on his own to ensure he is still in range--he does not like flushing birds that cannot be shot--he wants to retrieve them!
> 
> The only thing I find with the way I have trained mine in upland work is a conflict with HRC upland tests. Because we are usually hunting either brush, or fencerows beside fields with standing crops, I only require my dogs to be steady to flush and to honour the shot--once that bird is tumbling they are allowed to go for it--otherwise we would lose birds. In the tests they want the dogs remaining steady until realeased after the bird hits the ground. So I just don't run those tests!!


I would say you are pretty smart.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I use "come around" and "get in there" as commands.

Also, I use a little hustle. If the dog is making game and you want to get a shot, you have to get to the dog pretty quick. No sense trying to call a dog back within range when he is running after a pheasant that will soon take off.

My opinion.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Thanks--the dogs' physical tells are pretty fun to learn as well. When Winter gets on a bird his tail moves from a side to side wag to a "helicopter" --then I know to close the gun and be ready to shoot! Breeze tends to drop her head and extend her neck--kind of the border collie pose.

The really cool thing that Winter would do was to push a running bird back towards me. He would actually circle out wide and trap the bird between me and him which would usually make it flush. It is amazing what a bit of instinct coupled with experience will do.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

gdgli said:


> I use "come around" and "get in there" as commands.
> 
> Also, I use a little hustle. If the dog is making game and you want to get a shot, you have to get to the dog pretty quick. No sense trying to call a dog back within range when he is running after a pheasant that will soon take off.
> 
> My opinion.


I do "check it out" to get them into cover I want worked. And when Breeze gets into Border Collie mode I do have to sometimes hustle up as well as she is going to pressure that bird.


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