# Dewmist Goldens worth it?



## Goldengirl2016 (Jan 7, 2016)

I am looking to purchase a show golden and have been looking around. Has anybody ever gotten one of the Dewmist dogs? He seems to have a good reputation in Europe and has produced a ton of really good dogs.

Thoughts?

I do know it would be difficult to get one but was just wondering what other people thought.


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## Goldengirl2016 (Jan 7, 2016)

*Dewmist goldens-worth it?*

I am looking to purchase a show puppy and have been looking at breeders and am in love with the Dewmist look.

It seems like he has produced some amazing litters.

Do you guys think that trying to get one would be worth it?

I do know it would be a long difficult process but I do love them and it seem like they do well in the ring.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Can you define show dog - or what you are looking for?


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## Goldengirl2016 (Jan 7, 2016)

I would like to show the dog in the AKC and do reasonably well.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Then you need to purchase a puppy from a litter where one or both parents are AKC CH's.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

They do well in the ring in Europe. America is a horse of a different color. 
Dewmist dogs are lovely but you won't find their style in the AKC ring very often, it would take an excellent dog and a very dedicated owner to finish it. Why set yourself up for that. They have imported some dogs into the US so you may want to look for a dog down from them (i.e. Dewmist Davenport and Pam Oxenberg bred to one of their Swedish dogs in the past decade). May give you more moderate options.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

I agree if you really want to show successfully in the U.S., you will want to start off with something as far as style that will do well here. 

Showing is a lot of fun. I don't know what your experience so you may already know this but the Golden show ring is dominated by professionals. These are lovely, wonderful, though busy people. They make their living showing dogs. By the nature of it, they are better at grooming, have access to multiple dogs, are more comfortable/accomplished at handling, have face recognition, travel to several shows each month (sometimes every weekend), and know which judges like what. As an owner handler, you are already at these disadvantages. Even a really nice example of European bred dog has a hard time finishing here at all. There have been some imports that have done it but they were with handlers that could find and take them all over the country to find judges that will look at dogs of this style. It is estimated that it takes about $1000 per point with a handler to finish a dog. Since you need 15 points that is a base line of $15000.00. Some dogs can do it for much less but I have also heard of it taking twice that much.

On to Dewmist, yes they produce very lovely European style dog that do well in European ring. From what I am seeing it would not be the cost that would stop you but the need to build a relationship as he seems to (rightly) jelously guard his lines. Very few of his dogs have been exported to North America. Those I have tacked down, have gone to well established breeders (usually 25+ years) that have worked with Europen lines for a longtime, do show, and are more likely to be in Canada. This hold true to his statement on his website that he does not export to unknow people unless they come highly recommended by a common friend. 

So many of the good/great Breeders over seas will not work with American breeders at all any more since a lot of people got burned when this whole "English cream/white dog" craze started over here. I love European dogs, I am working to import one myself but it will likely take me a year or more before I will even have an opportunity for a puppy. I am fortunate because I have had my eye on a bitch for a while, I have started building a relationship with her owners, and they are considering me as a home for a breeding not likely to happen until the end of 2016/beginning of 2017 at the earliest. So fingers crossed.

If you are set on Dewmist, Kyon in Onterio has used Davey a lot and Tangelwood has a Dewmist stud.

My recommendation would be to go to a show and see if it is really what you think it is and what you want to do. Also, look to see what is winning, not just the big wins but the class placing a as well. Texas is a big state and I am not sure where you are but if it is close you could check this one out this weekend. It has a good sized entry and start times are not bad, especially on Saturday. 

Nolan River Kennel Club
Somervell County Expo Center
US Hwy 67 Gibbs Blvd
Glen Rose, TX

Saturday Ring 7 @ 12:30
Sunday Ring 4 @ 9:50
Looks like 45 dogs per day. Gloria is judging Sunday so, you might just see a more European dog or two showing if there are any active folks in that area.


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## Goldengirl2016 (Jan 7, 2016)

Thank you so much for replying.

I have been attending all the shows that travel through my area and have seen that a few of the cream colored goldens have done well but I will say that they were the ones that looked exceptionally high quality.

I had considered looking into a more American style golden but I simply prefer the European style so much more and so I am really wanting to see if I can make it happen.

Do you guys have any tips on choosing an English type dog that would be able to catch a judges eye here?


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Goldengirl2016-I merged your two threads together so you would have all the replies/info in the same thread so it would be easier to find.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Goldengirl2016 said:


> Thank you so much for replying.
> 
> I have been attending all the shows that travel through my area and have seen that a few of the cream colored goldens have done well but I will say that they were the ones that looked exceptionally high quality.
> 
> ...


I guarantee that the "cream color" you saw is not from Europe. Those dogs are more than likely just a lighter American style golden. Can you attach a picture? Do you have any of your ideal golden?

I do not live far from you and I have never seen an English golden in the area (as far as the shows go).


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Cream does not equate to English style. Witness this lovely boy, who is as American as they come. And I am sure Joyce and Dave would tell you that they have to pick their judges carefully.

Pedigree: GCH CH Splendid Chatham Stars And Bars

As competitive as Goldens are in the AKC ring, you would have to have an exceptional dog and an exceptional handler. I agree that you would probably be better off with a blend. Or, you could set your sights on competing in Canada and UKC, and if successful there, give AKC a shot.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Joyce and Dave are WONDERFUL and yes, they pick shows for Patton based on judges who will appriciate this very nice boy. I have gotten to see him several times as there is a big show in AZ that is know for selecting judges that appropriate a good dog regardless of color and style. 

I agree the light dogs you are seeing are likely American.

See that light girl below? That is a shot from the National in 2015. She placed well and guess what? She is all American. 

One of my favorite boys in Europe right now is tearing up the rings and wining Best in Shows, he is true Medium Gold. I understand liking a different style but color does not equal style.


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## Christen113 (Dec 3, 2014)

LJack said:


> Joyce and Dave are WONDERFUL an yes, they pick shows for Patton based on judges who will appropriate this very nice boy. I have gotten to see him several times as there is a big show in AZ that is know for selecting judges that appropriate a good dog regardless of color and style.
> 
> I agree the light dogs you are seeing are likely American.
> 
> ...


That girl in the picture is my boy's littermate. 100% All American!!


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## Goldengirl2016 (Jan 7, 2016)

I probably should have been more specific in my liking of the English style dog. I actually own a cross golden now who is about 6 and we love her strong chest, square face, black nose, and her gentle temperament. She is exceptionally well suited for our family which is why we were looking specifically at English goldens for showing. We have known several American style goldens and they did not seem as demure as the standard English lines. Perhaps I am mistaken in this, but I have read in several places that the European lines have been bred to have a more gentle temperament than the American lines since the American lines were bred for hunting.

I have been to several International dog shows as well as AKC and in the International Dog show the English Style Goldens (shorter legs, light coloring, strong chests) are what is winning. I attended 3 in the last few months and honestly I didn't see any American style goldens at the events. I met several dogs that were imported for sure.

I went to one AKC event in Arkansas that had an imported dog named Cinderella that pointed in that show. She was cream colored and I forget what country she was from though.


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## Goldengirl2016 (Jan 7, 2016)

LJack said:


> Joyce and Dave are WONDERFUL an yes, they pick shows for Patton based on judges who will appropriate this very nice boy. I have gotten to see him several times as there is a big show in AZ that is know for selecting judges that appropriate a good dog regardless of color and style.
> 
> I agree the light dogs you are seeing are likely American.
> 
> ...


That dog is beautiful! She has the stockier body and head that we love! Gorgeous! What breeder is she from?


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

I honestly am not sure. I think she is an Apollo golden. Their boy Cinco is also very light. Pedigree: GCh Ch Apollo's Cinco de Mayo I have attached a bitch I co-own sired by him. She is also very light, typical of American style and has bother her majors.

As far as the traits, most of what you are describing is not specific to European bred dogs (I have actually noticed marked issues with fading pigment in a lot of eropean lines). That girl you liked above is actually very typically American in body though her color is on the lighter end of the spectrum. 

As far as the temperament, hunting is important over seas as well and a lot of the high quality show dogs are hunt tested over there. There certainly are some lines that are higher and lower energy, but that holds true with all Goldens. It really depends on the line more than the style. I know very calm American dogs and have seen distructo/crazy European ones. You do have to be cautious with that "demure" or *soft* temperament, as it is a slippery slope to lack of courage and fear. I evaluated a European litter where I could not even evaluate the mom because she would melt to the ground and pee herself if I was in the room with her. She was still peeing herself after an hour of me trying to build her confidence by not pushing and just standing tossing treats her way. She liked me enough to try to come toward me, but would still melt and pee when she got about 5 feet from me.
This was not the "Kindly, friendly and confident" temperament called for in the UK standard. Nor is it what the American standard calls for. "Temperament — friendly, reliable and trustworthy. Quarrelsomeness or hostility towards other dogs or people in normal situations, or an unwarranted show of timidity or nervousness, is not in keeping with Golden Retriever character. Such actions should be penalized according to their significance."

As far as it goes with shows, you have to understand what International shows in the U.S. are. I show in these usually with young dogs at the start of a show career and all my dogs are International champions. You can not compare AKC to Intrnational shows. 

International shows in the U.S. are not competitive, you do not have to beat any other dog to earn a title and all dogs that show can/so get the title. Both my girls earned theirs in 1 day. So, it is not surprising that European dogs are "winning" there since it is darn close to a pay for a championship situation. I have been to many and I have never seen a dog regardless of lack of quality (all breeds) fail to become a champion, not one. I guess it could happen if the dog has a DQ fault like I'm Goldens being to small/big or having a bad bite. The International title earned in the U.S. should not be confused with the one earned overseas where it is a very high accomplishment.

If you want European because you are set on it, you should do that but it is not likely you will be competitive in AKC. Also it is darn hard to get a high quality one here as so many good ones will not send them here. The quality overseas vs here is drastic. I will PM you my email and if you are interested I can share examples of what I mean.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Goldengirl2016 said:


> I went to one AKC event in Arkansas that had an imported dog named Cinderella that pointed in that show. She was cream colored and I forget what country she was from though.


I would guess Spain as she carries the Thevenet kennel name. Stacy has had some luck with her but it also looks like she is also very carefully selecting which shows and judges to take her to.


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## Randm Winds (Jan 8, 2016)

I would second the advice you have gotten on here. I have spent the last year trying to research some of the European bloodlines because I am concerned about the narrowing gene pool in our breed That said, I am very much aware that it will be difficult, if not impossible, to finish an AKC championship on a European dog and for a novice, owner handler the Golden ring is pretty tough anyways! I played around this year at the International and UKC shows and they were fun and a great learning experience for my niece, who is just starting to take an interest in showing dogs. Lots of novice people think the dog I am currently showing Passion's Naturally A Star ( Jacob) is an "English" dog because he is light colored and has a blocky head, but the well bred American goldens come in all colors and have beautiful chunky bone and blocky heads also. I would be cautious actually importing a dog if your desire is to show - find someone with the bloodlines you are interested in that is already stateside so you can see the puppies/parents. Watch for your health/genetic tests and I would ask about ichthyosis because most of the European breeders I spoke to were very dismissive of it but I would definitely consider whether a dog is affected, a carrier or clear before I used the dog as the foundation of a breeding program. Good Luck!


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## Randm Winds (Jan 8, 2016)

love your Anasazi girls


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## Randm Winds (Jan 8, 2016)

Actually, a friend of mine just bred his Patton daughter to my boy Rico (Ch Random Winds Raisin a Racket at Dalane) he should know in a few weeks if she is pregnant I am going to try and put in a pic of Rico See if I can figure this forum thing out : ok nevermind can't figure it out email me and I will send you pics [email protected] The International shows in the US typically are considered a place for a "cheap" title regardless of breed I did see a few VERY high dollars English Cream dogs who did not earn their titles because they were so shy they wouldn't let the judge touch them. You can find a beautiful puppy in the states - and , just as if not more important, a great mentor to help you learn the ropes of showing


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## Goldengirl2016 (Jan 7, 2016)

Ok so I guess I need to look into everything a bit more.

But in summary if I had the chance to get a Dewmist you guys would say not to bother correct?


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## Goldengirl2016 (Jan 7, 2016)

Randm Winds said:


> Actually, a friend of mine just bred his Patton daughter to my boy Rico (Ch Random Winds Raisin a Racket at Dalane) he should know in a few weeks if she is pregnant I am going to try and put in a pic of Rico See if I can figure this forum thing out : ok nevermind can't figure it out email me and I will send you pics [email protected] The International shows in the US typically are considered a place for a "cheap" title regardless of breed I did see a few VERY high dollars English Cream dogs who did not earn their titles because they were so shy they wouldn't let the judge touch them. You can find a beautiful puppy in the states - and , just as if not more important, a great mentor to help you learn the ropes of showing


This is helpful. This will be my first dog and I really do want to get this right as I am not in this to become a kennel of tons of dogs. I just want 1 really good one!


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Goldengirl2016 said:


> Ok so I guess I need to look into everything a bit more.
> 
> But in summary if I had the chance to get a Dewmist you guys would say not to bother correct?



That is really your choice? If the #1 priority was to show in AKC, NO. If you wanted to do international shows then an English style is fine.


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## Christen113 (Dec 3, 2014)

Goldengirl2016 said:


> That dog is beautiful! She has the stockier body and head that we love! Gorgeous! What breeder is she from?


She is out of Apollo Goldens in Houston. Her mother is Apollo's Mu Cha Cha-also almost white but did very well in the AKC ring. Lola (the one in the National picture) is a similar breeding to Cinco that Laura mentioned.


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## Christen113 (Dec 3, 2014)

Not sure where in Texas you are but my female is out of Oakshire Kennels. They primarily show in international but did get a class placement several years ago at the AKC Reliant Shows. Not sure if they're breeding any time soon but their dogs are nicely structured, good temperaments, have clearances and come from good kennels. 

Page Title


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Goldengirl2016 said:


> Thank you so much for replying.
> 
> I have been attending all the shows that travel through my area and have seen that a few of the cream colored goldens have done well but I will say that they were the ones that looked exceptionally high quality.
> 
> ...


You have to have real excellence in structure, and also know your judges. I can name four judges off the top of my head who actively open themselves to that style, and one who breeds it himself. I would perhaps select that style golden from a USA breeder judge or dog that has finished in AKC. It isnt easy to finish any golden, so you have to select this with eyes open that it will be even more challenging. It is very hard to get someone's first pick show prospect no matter what. You need to develop a good relationship and network, and work hard.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

In my area of the country, Stoneledge just finished an English style golden: Pedigree: Am Ch Stoneledge Out Of The Blue


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Ljilly28 said:


> You have to have real excellence in structure, and also know your judges. I can name four judges off the top of my head who actively open themselves to that style, and one who breeds it himself. I would perhaps select that style golden from a USA breeder judge or dog that has finished in AKC. It isnt easy to finish any golden, so you have to select this with eyes open that it will be even more challenging. It is very hard to get someone's first pick show prospect no matter what. You need to develop a good relationship and network, and work hard.


I think Ljilly's point is perfectly on target. As an unknown person in the Golden community it is very hard to get a top show pick from any top breeder. Find a breeder whose dogs you like and who you like and go from there.


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## Goldengirl2016 (Jan 7, 2016)

So I just thought I would update this in case someone is considering a Dewmist in the future. I was in Europe this past week with my sister who does have English style goldens and we stopped by Dewmist kennels since we were in the area. Henric was extremely nice and showed us around. He doesn't have that many litters per year (1 to 3) and seemed very concerned about the type of home that his litters were going to. 

So if somebody wants one of his puppies you definitely would have to show up in person in order for him to consider you for one of his puppies. Also prepare to be grilled about your home, the current dog show world, and what your purpose is for getting a puppy.


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## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

Ljilly28 said:


> You have to have real excellence in structure, and also know your judges. I can name four judges off the top of my head who actively open themselves to that style, and one who breeds it himself. I would perhaps select that style golden from a USA breeder judge or dog that has finished in AKC. It isnt easy to finish any golden, so you have to select this with eyes open that it will be even more challenging. It is very hard to get someone's first pick show prospect no matter what. You need to develop a good relationship and network, and work hard.


I know this an old thread, but I have been looking for judges and breeders like this. Do you mind sharing?!


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