# Reviews on breeder



## Lincgold (May 11, 2018)

Hello, does anyone have any info on Golden Savannah in PA? Their dogs are beautiful but seem to be larger than the AKC standard. Perhaps that’s standard for English Goldens? Would appreciate any info. Thanks,


----------



## Nate83 (Jul 13, 2017)

I did a fast look and none of the dogs have OFA elbows or hips, RED FLAG! "stair and crate training from 5 weeks of age". Puppies should not be going on stairs at 5 weeks old. Just from my brief overview i would say no do not go with them but other might have more insight.


----------



## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

I did a quick peek and on the first dog I looked at "Tessa" (*Pat Joys English Lady Tessa) *they say all the DNA tests are done (no OFA or K9Data info to confirm) and in the description they say "she has good hips by parentage". What does that even mean, that they aren't clearing hips on her but going by the parents tests? 



Also on K9Data, it has her website as a non existing one (englishcreampups.com), their site is goldensavannah.com which makes me wonder were they a different kennel name before? If so, are they hiding from their past? Sounds like nothing but red flags and that was just the first dog I looked at. I'm cringing to look at other dogs.



Like Nate83 said, I think we need someone maybe with some experience with them to chime in. 



Also, the Sire of Tessa has teh hart clearance done by a practitioner not a cardiologist so it looks like there are corners being cut on the lineage.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I didn't go look but to say hips are clear by parentage is the height of uneducated.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

I love it when a “Health” page on a website is dedicated solely to advertising products that give the breeder a monetary kick back. Ugh!:yuck:

What about the standard health certifications for breeding dogs in the US and at the appropriate ages? Nope, apparently that is not important. 

Foreign health certifications are done much younger that we do in the US. So, imported dogs should have them redone at 24 months or older. They use PennHIP but don’t make the report available. Since PennHIP does not have a verification database, responsible breeders pay a nominal fee to have OFA record it for easy public verification. Sadly PennHIP is commonly done underage or misrepresented since unlike OFA they do not pass/fail dogs. The reports look the same for dogs with the best or worst hips. Only the DI score tells the story and it is not easy for average Joe buyers to understand the report. 

For me, you could not give me a puppy from this breeder. IMHO too much health risk for a high price tag.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Here are some visuals I hope will help. 

Do your research, it is very buyer beware our there when looking for a Puppy. Never blindly trust, always verify claims. Especially health related. The website for verification is www.ofa.org.


----------



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Less than 30 seconds looking at their website tells you that this is not where you want to purchase a puppy. If you make note of some of them, it will save you some time in your resarch:

Reputable hobby breeders do not have the following words or phrases on their websites:

English Cream
Pure English Golden Retrievers
Champion Lineage
Superior Bloodlines
Specialized Training Programs
Reserve Your Spot Early
Champion sired
Blockiest head - WHAT?

After reading those terms I would have bet $100 that there either would not be any proper clearances or they would be missing the core heart and elbow clearances. And there would be no way to look at the close relatives in the pedigrees to verify health. 

If health is truly your greatest concern, the last place you want to purchase puppies from is from a breeder who is importing white dogs from eastern european countries. These dogs do not have generations of clearances behind them for elbows, hearts or eyes. The dogs on this website don't have heart clearances with a cardiologist. The only thing more heartbreaking on this forum than someone losing a 2 year old dog to cancer is the stories we hear from people who have a healthy young dog drop dead underneath their kitchen table during dinner, or in the front yard or on the front porch. Most likely from SAS heart issue. Or the people who are trying to figure out how to pay for elbow surgery on a dysplastic dog at $3000 a joint. Elbow issues have a strong inherited link, yet I challenge you to find proof of elbow clearances on the dogs this kennel is breeding. The breeder is bragging about 'champion sired' dogs but they don't mention a word about showing their own dogs. No mention of even basic level obedience competition, field work, nothing. Reputable hobby breeders don't keep puppies to send to a trainer and then charge $7000 on up. 

When searching for reputable breeders they won't say "English Cream" they won't say one single word about the color of their dogs. They will have websites to brag about their dogs accomplishments that they themselves trained and showed them for. They will have registered names front and center along with lots of photos of competition. They will raise fewer litters so they can raise puppies in their home and give them individual attention on a daily basis. The breeder will have a waiting list but won't mention high pressure sales terms like "reserve now" "make your reservation" "Paypal and credit cards accepted". There are SO few good people breeding lighter colored dogs in the United States that it is often helpful to extend your search to Canada to find lighter dogs. Here is an example of what a website from a "european style" hobby breeder looks like, notice that she is mostly showcasing her dogs, talking about which sports she trains for and highlights the registered names of her dogs making it very easy to search for the pedigrees and health clearances on independent data bases, no mention of white or cream color anywhere:

https://www.kernowgoldens.com/about-us

There are reputable people but it's going to be word of mouth to find them. Spill your heart to these people and eventually you will find someone who may be able to help you get a lead on an upcoming litter. They can be very choosy about who gets their puppies because there is so much demand. WHen you start making color a priority in your search, all the other things like health and temperament and a biddable,trainable personality start going by the wayside. You will need to be extra, extra careful if you have your heart set on a white Golden Retriever. I'd say there are very, very few breeders who aren't doing it for any reason except to make money off of cute white puppies. Is that really where you want to give your money? To a puppy farmer? Think about it.


----------



## Piper_the_goldenpuppy (Aug 26, 2016)

Personally, it would be a definite no. I couldn't find any of those dogs of OFA. To say that a dog is clear by parentage is laughable. As previously mentioned, imported dogs should be re-tested at 24 months. Final clearances are obtained at 24 months of age in this country. Each dog should have hips, elbows, eyes (annually by an ophthalmologist) and cardiac (by a cardiologist). Interestingly, this is a good example of how most of the "English" GRs in this country come from Eastern Europe. You have no idea when the bitches were first bred (never before age 2). Way too risky. 

The age at testing is really very important. Not all dogs who pass prelim hips will pass at 2 years of age. 

Lots of people will claim "championship" lines. It doesn't mean anything unless you have actual titles to back them up. Not all championships are created equal. She doesn't even list what "championship" she's talking about, and none of her dogs have titles in their names. An international championship can be earned in 1 weekend without actually beating any other dogs. It doesn't mean much. Compared to an AKC championship, which takes a lot more time, and requires actually beating many other dogs. 

I rescued a dog who had been originally been bought from a puppy mill/BYP. She had a ton of health issues, and died of lymphoma when she was 3 years old. Her medical care was incredibly costly and difficult to manage (which is why she got surrendered by someone else), but the worst part was watching her suffer as the result of poor breeding practices.

Here is another website of a reputable English GR breeder. http://www.tanglewoodgoldens.com. You may find it very helpful to compare this website to the current breeder you are considering, and may also find it educational about the sub-type and differences in the breed standard.


----------



## Lincgold (May 11, 2018)

Thank you everyone for your responses. So much good info. I won’t be purchasing a pup from these breeders. Take care, Ann


----------



## UsGoldens (Apr 8, 2019)

We are also looking at purchasing a pup from these breeders (Golden Savannah) and I found this thread while doing a Google search. They have excellent Facebook reviews and no negative reviews online - the only red flag I could find was this thread. Looking at the dams/sires, they all have OFA information on the website at goldensavannah.com, but I'll be honest that I don't really know what the numbers mean. 

Would someone look at the below info for the puppy we are considering please?

This is what it says for the mother on their website. Her profile links to K9data.com and it has links on there to her OFA numbers:
Health Clearances: Hips -OFA Good, Elbows - OFA normal, prcd-PRA status: Clear, PRA1 status: Clear, 
MD - Clear. Not affected by Ict.

This is what it says about the father on their website:
Health Clearances: PennHip - 90% Excellent, Elbows - OFA Prelim Good, prcd-PRA status: Clear, PRA1 status: Clear , PRA2 status: Clear, Ict Status: Clear .

But on his K9data.com profile there isn't an OFA number, it just says:

PennHIP Number:	.36/.40
Elbow clearance:	Unknown Preliminary Good
prcd-PRA status:	Animal Genetics 00105849 Clear
PRA1 status:	Animal Genetics 00105849 Clear
PRA2 status:	Animal Genetics 00105849 Clear
Ichthyosis status:	Animal Genetics 00105849 Clear
DM status:	Animal Genetics 00105849 Clear

I think this is because the father is not yet 24 months old (he is ~20 months old) but I'm not sure if that matters or not?

I honestly have no idea what to make of all this information. But for a $3,000 puppy I feel like I should do my due diligence! Can anyone weigh in on these numbers? Would welcome advice.


----------



## UsGoldens (Apr 8, 2019)

As a quick addendum, I also sent the info I posted earlier to our local Golden Retrievers of America Club and they indicated that based upon the numbers and records it looks like this breeder follows best practices. Just posting this for anyone else who finds this thread while researching them. 

They also did not have some of the other red flags I've noticed with some other breeders. Namely:

- They asked questions about us and the kind of lifestyle we lead. A few of the breeders I've talked to did not ask anything about the kind of home the puppy would have, they just urged me to get on a waiting list. That was a red flag to me. (They spend almost 45m on the phone with my the first time, asking me questions and answering mine.)

- They were not bothered by my asking for OFA numbers and other records. They sent me everything quickly and had no problem answering my questions.

- They have a contract that covers the puppy's health for 2 years and also are willing to take a puppy back if any issues arise. They also require right of first refusal if we were ever unable to keep the dog for some reason. It did not bother me that they require a specific diet since nutrition is an important part of healthy puppy growth.

- I spoke with 2 people who have purchased dogs from them and both highly recommended them.

Would still love feedback, just wanted to share more info.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

https://goldensavannah.com/ these people?

The litter listed is Charlie X Megan

On Charlie- read the change history on K9data. There is ZERO chance those DI #'s got a 90% even when they were issuing percentiles, which they were not at the time this change was attempted. So to my mind, when someone tries to deceive, I do not trust their words. When they not only attempt to put them on a database repeatedly but also publish this untrue statement on the dog's page on their site, I suspect every thing I read on their site. The DI #'s they got are in the mild risk range but the dog was not 24 months when it was done- I'd guess (without much math just a guess) those DI's would be in the 75%tile or so. 
this dog was born 7/17. The preliminary elbow that is not showing on OFA was input to k9data originally 10/18. The dog is underaged for breeding, yes that is a problem, and prelims are not sufficient to breed on. Also, the dog has no OFA page- so the heart and eyes are also suspect. We have no way to verify the heart was done by a cardiologist. IF he even has eyes and heart. They are not on k9data. 
Also no way to know what breeders options are on the eyes if any, and no way to know if eyes even passed. They need to go in to oFA. 

Megan is missing heart and eyes- here is her OFA page-https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1966918 interesting the way they attempt to 'color' her ICT status-"not affected".... so she's a carrier. Just come out and say it. 
These are not ENGlish Goldens. MEgan's sire lives in FL- the pedigrees are all eastern European. In other words, not English. 

I would like you to post who it was you spoke to referred to here " local Golden Retrievers of America Club and they indicated that based upon the numbers and records it looks like this breeder follows best practices" because that person needs to be spoken to about the referrals they are giving. I cannot believe a GRCA club would give a thumbs up here. Please do tell us what club, and who.


----------



## UsGoldens (Apr 8, 2019)

Thank you for your reply Robin! I would feel bad mentioning the club. They said they only recommend breeders that are members, so I sent them the information I posted here earlier and they said just based upon a quick look at the numbers things looked correct. They said they had not heard of this breeder before, to be clear. 

I do see that Megan is missing eyes and heart info on her OFA record. I was just looking for hips/elbows because, again, complete newbie here and that's all I knew to look for. Where do you see ICT? I couldn't find that on the record. 

For Charlie, I also see the change history, though I don't understand the changes at all. I did ask the breeder about him not having his OFA and he confirmed that it was because Charlie is not old enough for an OFA certification yet. He said that his preliminary results were good.

This is all so confusing! It was much easier with my rescue dog, who is a mix of who knows how many breeds but is healthy as can be lol.


----------



## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Prism Goldens said:


> I would like you to post who it was you spoke to referred to here " local Golden Retrievers of America Club and they indicated that based upon the numbers and records it looks like this breeder follows best practices" because that person needs to be spoken to about the referrals they are giving. I cannot believe a GRCA club would give a thumbs up here. Please do tell us what club, and who.



This is what worried me most in USGolden's post. I wonder how often that happens?


----------



## UsGoldens (Apr 8, 2019)

The breeder sent me all the health records for both parents - OFA, PennHIP, genetic tests, AKC papers - so I'm just sending those to my vet for review. I figure that's easier than trying to figure out what all the numbers mean.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

What I read on the website is 'not affected' for ICT- which is another way to say 'carrier'- there is no shame in carrier status, but when someone calls it 'not affected' there is intent to soothe the reader of worry. 'Clear' is no alleles for the disease. Carrier won't ever have the disease but does have an allele for it and can produce it if bred to another carrier or an affected dog. It's just the attempt to seem on the up and up that is bothersome to me. You can send me the paperwork via PM if you like orI am pretty easy to find if you want to email it. I do know all the B/O for eyes and what passes and doesn't, and can research whether a cardiologist did the hearts or not.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

UsGoldens said:


> The breeder sent me all the health records for both parents - OFA, PennHIP, genetic tests, AKC papers - so I'm just sending those to my vet for review. I figure that's easier than trying to figure out what all the numbers mean.


The vet probably isn't the best person to evaluate the records, it's not in their wheel house unless they are also breeders.


----------



## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Most veterinarians are not extremely well-versed in interpreting clearances or even understanding what clearances need to be in place, at what age for each breed. (Unless yours IS an expert at least in Golden Retrievers)

I have seen many backyard breeders post testimonials from their vets or brag about their veterinarians taking home a pup from one of their litters when it is blatantly clear they do not follow the GRCA CoE at minimum.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

UsGoldens said:


> For Charlie, I also see the change history, though I don't understand the changes at all. I did ask the breeder about him not having his OFA and he confirmed that it was because Charlie is not old enough for an OFA certification yet. He said that his preliminary results were good.
> 
> This is all so confusing! It was much easier with my rescue dog, who is a mix of who knows how many breeds but is healthy as can be lol.


When you are spending $3-4000 for a puppy it's important to be sure of what you are buying in terms of insurances health wise. So- the change record- what it appears happened was the owner input things that could not be verified, as well as inaccurate information (the 90% is NOT right)...and the admin removed the inaccuracies. The owner put them back in. The admin removed them. The owner figured out he should put the DI #'s in and did, as well as the 90% which is not what he got. The admin removed the 90% and locked it so she didn't have to keep going in and removing inaccuracies. 
There are some things we do not have to see the actual papers to know-the 90% is one of those. Of course, we cannot change what he publishes on his site- which is an untruth.


----------



## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

UsGoldens said:


> - They have a contract that covers the puppy's health for 2 years and also are willing to take a puppy back if any issues arise. They also require right of first refusal if we were ever unable to keep the dog for some reason.


This will mean absolutely nothing to you two years from now if you find out you have a health problem. For that matter it won't mean anything to you in 6 months if your anything like most Golden owners. 

I am currently in a situation where according to my contract I should receive a "replacement puppy". I will not be asking for it. I would venture to say there are more people like me out there then the ones waiting on the replacement. I would also note that my breeder had all the clearances. I am not mad at my breeder, but a replacement puppy isn't an option. Just so you know my guy had all 4 core clearances for his parents, grandparents, etc. I can trace every dog in his pedigree all the way back, and knew of some of them. When you look at clearances they are not guarantees, but they are increasing the odds of a healthy puppy.


----------



## Jmcarp83 (May 4, 2018)

Never heard of them if they are in PA. And they were on neither list from GRCA breeder referral clubs in PA I received when looking. If you’re looking for just color then you limit yourself. But 3000+ is sounding more than you’ll pay for a pet puppy in PA from CH and GCH dogs. Average 2000-2500 is what I found and you’ll find some excellent dogs with health clearances that are verifiable and accurate.

I can verify every single person on the GRCA referral lists from PA I was interested in asked me questions about myself, my home, the environment, etc. these people reallllly care about their dogs.


----------



## UsGoldens (Apr 8, 2019)

Many thanks to Robin for taking the time to look at everything I had today and share her incredible expertise! We will be passing on this puppy and keeping our eyes open. Thanks to everyone who shared their knowledge and took the time to reply.


----------



## Phil Kessack (Jul 1, 2020)

Lincgold said:


> Hello, does anyone have any info on Golden Savannah in PA? Their dogs are beautiful but seem to be larger than the AKC standard. Perhaps that’s standard for English Goldens? Would appreciate any info. Thanks,


We obtained a new English Golden male puppy (“Archie”) from Golden Savannah almost a month ago. We have been to our vet twice since them and received an “exceptional” health report from our vet, who took care of our previous American Golden for 11 years. He anticipates our English Golden will be about 65 pounds when he is fully grown. He is extremely intelligent (quickly learned his name, to climb three stairs, go to his crate, sit, come and lay). He is a beautiful specimen, very responsive and loving. He gets along well with other dogs in our neighborhood (e.g., grand perines, husky, lab, and welch terrier) and loves children. He loves water and is very curious. We drove from Greenville, SC to PA to pick up Archie and meet Mike and his kids. Mike has been very responsive and we are extremely pleased with the experience and with Archie. Worth every penny.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> I did a quick peek and on the first dog I looked at "Tessa" (*Pat Joys English Lady Tessa) *they say all the DNA tests are done (no OFA or K9Data info to confirm) and in the description they say "she has good hips by parentage". What does that even mean, that they aren't clearing hips on her but going by the parents tests?


I spewed pop from laughing...

The worst of it is when you have puppy buyers who are gullible enough to believe every word. 

They have "Our English Goldens" plastered all over.... and all of their breeding dogs are from eastern Europe.

Something interesting to point out and I wish I could copy/paste a passionate comment from a Russian breeder posted elsewhere. I'll describe -

* She mentioned the fact that dogs purchased from various breeders in Eastern Europe with really good sounding clearances.... and people were finding out that those clearances had been fake and these dogs had problems.

* She mentioned that of the pedigrees of dogs exported to the US, that there's the same 10-20 pedigrees over and over. And she implied that many of these dogs do not look like golden retrievers. She said they resembled herding breeds over there and it sounds like she wouldn't be surprised if those 10-20 breeders were lying about what was behind these dogs. 

* She is a reputable breeder over there who clearly loves the breed and is passionate about it... and she will NOT send pups over to the US. Many good breeders will not for the same reason - the pups end up just being breeding stock for somebody who approaches breeding these dogs the same way they would breeding chickens or goats.


----------



## Aleigh1231 (9 mo ago)

LJack said:


> I love it when a “Health” page on a website is dedicated solely to advertising products that give the breeder a monetary kick back. Ugh!:yuck:
> 
> What about the standard health certifications for breeding dogs in the US and at the appropriate ages? Nope, apparently that is not important.
> 
> ...


Hi! Thank you so much for the insight, I was wondering if you could take a look at their page now (2022) and see if they look any better? I am looking for a breeder and need an expert review of their health. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you!
Allie


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Aleigh1231 said:


> Hi! Thank you so much for the insight, I was wondering if you could take a look at their page now (2022) and see if they look any better?


No, not any better.

Based on the lack of health certifications, large number of dogs, focus on color as the main or only goal, no indication the breeder does an with the dogs other than use their reproductive organs, and misinformation or potentially lies on their site, this looks to be a hot mess of a commercial or for profit kennel.

Ella - Unverifiable PennHIP score of .59 is bad and not below the .53 that PennHIP states is the highe end of their breeding recommendation. They list this as ”Good” when 1) PennHIP doesn’t offer that designation and 2) if they did offer designations this dog would be a failed rating. It was also done underage. There are no Golden Retriever appropriate (CHIC/GRCA COE) OFA hip, elbow, heart ( by cardiologist) or eye (annual) Certifications . Claimed but unverifiable prelims are not certifications and should not be presented as such and the practitioner heart is a deficient tests as Goldens need a cardiologist especially from European backgrounds where SAS has been found and there is not as solid a history of checking hearts.

Candy - No verifiable health certifications. Claims a PennHIP of “Excellent“. While the scores listed are with in the breeding recommendation of PennHIP, PennHIP does have that designation and if they did, it would go to DI numbers of .30 or less. This test was also done underage and can’t be independently verified. There are no OFA records for hips, elbows, heart ( by cardiologist) or eye (annual) Certifications.

Savannah - No verifiable health certification. Claims PennHIP of “Good” and “Elbows - OFA”. The PennHIP scores are in the acceptable breeding range for Goldens but the term “Good” is not a PennHIP designation. The PennHIP testing was done underage and can’t be independently verified. There are no OFA records for this dog so “Elbows - OFA is at best misrepresenting under prelims as certifications or at worst a falsehood claiming testing that was not done or failed. There are no OFA records for hips, elbows, heart ( by cardiologist) or eye (annual) Certifications.

Charlie - No verifiable health certification. Claims PennHIP of “Good” and “Elbows - OFA Prelim”. The PennHIP scores are in the acceptable breeding range for Goldens but the term “Good” is not a PennHIP designation. The PennHIP testing was done underage and can’t be independently verified. There are no Golden Retriever appropriate (CHIC/GRCA COE) OFA hip, elbow, heart ( by cardiologist) or eye (annual) Certifications. Claimed but unverifiable prelims are not certifications and should not be presented as such and the practitioner heart is a deficient tests as Goldens need a cardiologist especially from European backgrounds where SAS has been found and there is not as solid a history of checking hearts.

Alice - Claims a PennHIP of “Excellent“. While the scores listed are with in the breeding recommendation of PennHIP, PennHIP has no excellent designation. There are no Golden Retriever appropriate (CHIC/GRCA COE) OFA hip, elbow, heart ( by cardiologist) or eye (annual) Certifications. Claimed but unverifiable prelims are not certifications and should not be presented as such and the practitioner heart is a deficient tests as Goldens need a cardiologist especially from European backgrounds where SAS has been found and there is not as solid a history of checking hearts.

Princess - No verifiable health certification. Claims PennHIP of “Good” and “Elbows - OFA Prelim”. The PennHIP scores are in the acceptable breeding range for Goldens but the term “Good” is not a PennHIP designation. The PennHIP testing was done underage and can’t be independently verified. There are no Golden Retriever appropriate (CHIC/GRCA COE) OFA hip, elbow, heart ( by cardiologist) or eye (annual) Certifications. Claimed but unverifiable prelims are not certifications and should not be presented as such.

Sasha -No verifiable health certification. Claims PennHIP of “Good”. The PennHIP scores are in the acceptable breeding range for Goldens but the term “Good” is not a PennHIP designation. The PennHIP testing can’t be independently verified. There are no Golden Retriever appropriate (CHIC/GRCA COE) OFA hip, elbow, heart ( by cardiologist) or eye (annual) Certifications. The practitioner heart is a deficient tests as Goldens need a cardiologist especially from European backgrounds where SAS has been found and there is not as solid a history of checking hearts.

Zara- No verifiable health certification. Claims PennHIP of “Excellent ”. The PennHIP scores are in the acceptable breeding recommendation range for Goldens but the term “Excellent” is not a PennHIP designation. The PennHIP testing can’t be independently verified. There are no Golden Retriever appropriate (CHIC/GRCA COE) OFA hip, elbow, heart ( by cardiologist) or eye (annual) Certifications. The practitioner heart is a deficient tests as Goldens need a cardiologist especially from European backgrounds where SAS has been found and there is not as solid a history of checking hearts.

Blossom - No verifiable health certification. Claims PennHIP of “Good”. The PennHIP scores are in the acceptable breeding range for Goldens but the term “Good” is not a PennHIP designation. The PennHIP testing can’t be independently verified. There are no Golden Retriever appropriate (CHIC/GRCA COE) OFA hip, elbow, heart ( by cardiologist) or eye (annual) Certifications. The practitioner heart is a deficient tests as Goldens need a cardiologist especially from European backgrounds where SAS has been found and there is not as solid a history of checking hearts.

Not a single dog in this program has even one of the four health certification that would meet the CHIC/GRCA COE health standards which are the mini standard for responsible breeding.

Also, the $4,000 price tag is exorbitant when that same price or much less could get you a puppy from parents with full and verifiable health certifications, generations of those full and verifiable health certifications behind them and parent dogs with actual competition titles themselves.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Current litter- though Laura spent a ton of time clearly outlining the issues I want to reinforce it
Charlie- has an inadequate cardiac on OFA- it's not done by a cardiologist but a pet vet. OFA DOES issue them, mostly because there are very few breeds who require a cardiologist but Goldens are one of those. This is a lick and a promise and coming from eastern Europe, a clearance that's desperately needed . He has no elbow clearance. Elbow dysplasia is painful, costly, and having clearances on both sire and dam reduces odds tremendously. No organization in the US does elbows but OFA and if he passed them, they would be there *there is no opt-out for listing passing tests. Only an opt-out for fails, and frankly when I see elbows missing I assume a fail. As Laura pointed out- the language is wrong = PH does not assign excellent, good or fair. They just issue a DI for each side and the DIs on Charlie are FAR from 'excellent' as owner attempted to input to k9data multiple times, nor are they 90%tile as he also attempted to deceive by on k9data. If we look at the change history, he input this for the first time with the dog was 14 mo of age. WELL under final hip assessment age. I want to reiterate this- at this point in history, PennHip did not assign percentiles. They did not. The owner did not do the math or even make a good guess.. and it was a lie- no sweet talking it was a lie that owner input to the database not once but multiple times. 
When someone lies on a public database, can you believe a word they say?
Essentially, this is a dog whose only asset is his color- and it's not even a color that is sought after by anyone except those who buy the rhetoric passed around by the breeders of this color. His sire lives in IA and there is no reason not to have every clearance possible on this health risky pedigree.
Dam of litter- Sasha-
completely risky pedigree as well, no hips, elbows, heart is pet vet not cardiologist and no eye clearance.
Not only that - I note that OFA has blanks on elbows but no hips column on her page, which I'd imagine means she failed but they did not assess hips nor did they do the RIGHT THING (caps for this breeders when thread is noticed) by the breed and initial to post failing results.





Advanced Search | OFA







www.ofa.org




IF the hips are really done by PH, they were done underaged.
I can't imagine why anyone would pay these people hard earned cash for such enormous risk.


----------



## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

The breed standard for US dogs is has a higher height standard than the UK/FCI standard. Annef


----------



## Jh2929 (5 mo ago)

UsGoldens said:


> We are also looking at purchasing a pup from these breeders (Golden Savannah) and I found this thread while doing a Google search. They have excellent Facebook reviews and no negative reviews online - the only red flag I could find was this thread. Looking at the dams/sires, they all have OFA information on the website at goldensavannah.com, but I'll be honest that I don't really know what the numbers mean.
> 
> Would someone look at the below info for the puppy we are considering please?
> 
> ...


Hello, did you end up purchasing a dog from them? I had the same experience where I came across this post in my search and it scared me.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Jh2929 said:


> Hello, did you end up purchasing a dog from them? I had the same experience where I came across this post in my search and it scared me.





UsGoldens said:


> Many thanks to Robin for taking the time to look at everything I had today and share her incredible expertise! We will be passing on this puppy and keeping our eyes open. Thanks to everyone who shared their knowledge and took the time to reply.


Based in their last post in the thread, they did not.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

No positive changes to health certifications in 2022 for the dogs I reviewed. 

Here is Charlie’s, their one and only reported sperm supplier.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Champion pedigree my (body part)....


----------

