# The Cost Of Training?!



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Where exactly do you live? I would think that there are people on this forum familiar with your area that might suggest a better alternative. I do not think the "choke" collar is an issue, but the "no treats" and cost are a bit over the top in my opinion.


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## Jellybean's mom (Jul 6, 2007)

Ok, this brought out the psychology major in me. Please know that treat based training usually comes from the school of thought that believes a dog should be rewarded for good behavior and will then learn to repeat that behavior in order to keep receiving rewards. Otherwise known as positive reinforcement. Trainers or methods that do NOT use treats, or praise, etc. typically use a philosophy of punishment (or possibly negative reward). Simply stated this means that the dog is punished for doing "bad" behaviors in the hopes they will learn to do something else (good behaviors). Punishment based training can work to train a dog to do something, but is that what you want? Punishment (or correction) could be anything from the snap of a choker to holding the dog down to other extreme means that even so-called experts tout as "training". 

So the short story is, this guy may get results, but are you comfortable with the methods used to get those results? Most current behaviorists believe that positive based (reward) training not only teaches behaviors but also fosters a bond bewteen human and dog. Positive training does not have to be fluffy, useless stuff like petsmart. NILIF is a perfect example of practical, reward based philosophy. 

So, if you're not comfortable with a choke collar and NO treats, there ARE other options! good luck!!


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## Farley Rocks! (Nov 15, 2007)

AmbikaGR said:


> Where exactly do you live? I would think that there are people on this forum familiar with your area that might suggest a better alternative. I do not think the "choke" collar is an issue, but the "no treats" and cost are a bit over the top in my opinion.


I am in MI - The Metro-Detroit area.


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

Those prices don't seem to far out of line to me. 

My previous dog and I went to a trainer that used the choke collar approach and if used correctly it does work well. Oakly and I went to a clicker trainer which also work. I think most modern trainers use some sort of reward only typy training like the clicker.


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## Farley Rocks! (Nov 15, 2007)

Oaklys Dad said:


> Those prices don't seem to far out of line to me.
> 
> My previous dog and I went to a trainer that used the choke collar approach and if used correctly it does work well. Oakly and I went to a clicker trainer which also work. I think most modern trainers use some sort of reward only typy training like the clicker.


haha! I am clicker challanged  That would NOT be an option!


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Farley Rocks! said:


> I am in MI - The Metro-Detroit area.


Here are a couple of results thru Google. The second link lists numerous schools in the Metro Detroit area. Hope some else can supply more detailed info.

http://www.woofology.com/
http://www.poodleclubsemi.org/Documents/Dog Training Classes in MI.pdf


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

Farley Rocks! said:


> haha! I am clicker challanged  That would NOT be an option!


LOL me too. I have since replaced the CLICK with the word "Yes"


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## Farley Rocks! (Nov 15, 2007)

AmbikaGR said:


> Here are a couple of results thru Google. The second link lists numerous schools in the Metro Detroit area. Hope some else can supply more detailed info.
> 
> http://www.woofology.com/
> http://www.poodleclubsemi.org/Documents/Dog Training Classes in MI.pdf


He was one of the trainers listed on the GGRoM website so I thought he would be good...but I am iffy on the punishment only training practice. I guess I should be prepared for whatever he says on Monday but I don't want a negative reinforcement only trainer.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

My trainer for a private lesson is 50.00 an hour. He does use treats as a reward or toys if they dog isnt into food or treats...My trainer does what works for the dog... if its treats, toys..etc, BUT he will and does use prong collars, and e-collars if he has to....


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## Farley Rocks! (Nov 15, 2007)

Maggies mom said:


> My trainer for a private lesson is 50.00 an hour. He does use treats as a reward or toys if they dog isnt into food or treats...My trainer does what works for the dog... if its treats, toys..etc, BUT he will and does use prong collars, and e-collars if he has to....


I want your trainer....but a little cheaper :


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

If Doggie Dan's rate is for private lessons then I will retract my issue with the rate. :doh:
If it is for a group lesson then it still stands


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Farley Rocks! said:


> I want your trainer....but a little cheaper :


To bad you weren't closer.... this guy is *great*.... I know a lot of people are against prong and e-collars, but Im a firm believer every dog is different and you use what works with *your* dog.....Having 4 Golden's all in training... each one is different and I dont always use the same thing on each of them.


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## LOVEisGOLDEN (Jan 4, 2008)

I was first taught with slip "choke" chains and no treats & yes you do get results, but not always positive ones. we sent an aussie I grew up with to a trainer like that and she came back completely broken. it was years before i ever saw her tail wag again, she would slink around and wimper, it was horrible.

generally classes in my area are ~$85 for 7 wks/1 hour classes 

the private in home sessions that I teach are $35 per hour (I do not recommend classes over an hour, especially for puppies-they tend to shut down around the 45 min. mark)

I highly recommend the Gentle Leader for pets, especially if there are children in the home that walk the dog. All of my 4-H kids must use GL's at class. I use pinch collars on pups that are intended to show, then gradually introduce the slip chain.


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## mjkaferle5 (Jan 15, 2008)

Have you heard of The Canine Workshop? It is in Clinton Township (east side, Metro Detroit). It is actually less than a mile from my house.

I am contemplating taking our new puppy there for puppy kindergarten next month.

Here is the website -
http://www.thecanineworkshop.com/

I hope this isn't the place you originally went to and had problems at!


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## Farley Rocks! (Nov 15, 2007)

LOVEisGOLDEN said:


> I was first taught with slip "choke" chains and no treats & yes you do get results, but not always positive ones. we sent an aussie I grew up with to a trainer like that and she came back completely broken. it was years before i ever saw her tail wag again, she would slink around and wimper, it was horrible.
> 
> generally classes in my area are ~$85 for 7 wks/1 hour classes
> 
> ...


Okay, thats it. I am passing on this trainer. The use of the prong collar and treats has served Farley and I well so far. I am just going to make the hike to the trainer I know and am comfortable with. They offer many classes including agility and therapy cert. Thanks everyone...sometimes you just need a push to follow your own instincts!

And no the $285 was for a group of 8.


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## Farley Rocks! (Nov 15, 2007)

mjkaferle5 said:


> Have you heard of The Canine Workshop? It is in Clinton Township (east side, Metro Detroit). It is actually less than a mile from my house.
> 
> I am contemplating taking our new puppy there for puppy kindergarten next month.
> 
> ...


Nope! It was a place in Farmington with a lady who works with all breeds but owns German Shepards. She had cool agility equipment but that was about all. Clinton Twp is a bit far for me  The lady I like is in Wayne Co - www.K9ATF.com


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## LOVEisGOLDEN (Jan 4, 2008)

wow, it's a small world! i have family in Farmington Hills, MI!


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## Farley Rocks! (Nov 15, 2007)

LOVEisGOLDEN said:


> wow, it's a small world! i have family in Farmington Hills, MI!


When you come to visit them you can train my dog and I too!


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## LOVEisGOLDEN (Jan 4, 2008)

i would love too! it's sad i haven't been up there for almost 4 years. they spend alot of time here with us.


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## Farley Rocks! (Nov 15, 2007)

LOVEisGOLDEN said:


> i would love too! it's sad i haven't been up there for almost 4 years. they spend alot of time here with us.


I go to Elkhart IN a few times a year but that is not even close to Henryville (per mapquest). :no:


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## LOVEisGOLDEN (Jan 4, 2008)

nope we are stuck at the bottom, right by louisville, KY. Henryville is a very tiny, very boring town!


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## LOVEisGOLDEN (Jan 4, 2008)

we are the original home to Colonel Sanders (KFC) he is actually my cousin, somehow, don't make me explain it! but of course the retards in this town won't cash in on that. you'd think they would make a museum out of the house he was born in or something, but nope.


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## Farley Rocks! (Nov 15, 2007)

HAHAHAHA - It would be burned by Peta if they did build it  All the more reason to come to the mitten and train Farley...Farmington...yep. Cutting edge exciting. Well, no...but we do have a Rams Horn


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