# Delicate Subject



## Jude's Mom (May 19, 2005)

Jude is now 10 months old and I have not had him fixed yet either. I can't decide if I want to do that. I think that one day I would like him to find a girlfriend and have a litter of puppys so that I can have one. But, just like you I think that he is having a little fun with his favorite pillow. Not to mention that he look a liking to a friend of mine last month. I have never had a male dog before and was wondering if he will tire of it soon.


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## LauraEyes2 (Sep 16, 2005)

Just like men, once they find it, they never leave it alone .


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## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

Jude's Mom said:


> I think that one day I would like him to find a girlfriend and have a litter of puppys so that I can have one.


Jude's Mom. You might be opening a whole new can of worms saying things like this on forums. Just a word of warning.

Not sure what to say about the masturbating issue. It does bring all kinds of images to mind though. :doh: 

Humping pillows is a different issue than masturbating. That is normal and they usually outgrow it. We had one big dog pillow that we gave away because Clancy would hump it up and down the hallway. Never humped anything else. The people we gave it to, their female also humped it all over the house. :no: It is now in the garbage.

Humping people should never be tolerated. Humping other dogs is usually a dominance thing and mostly I just let the dogs work it out themselves. It is not considered sexual.


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## Goldndust (Jul 30, 2005)

All of mine have done this at some point when they were puppies, female included. As far as cleaning up a mess, I never had that. Actually I never would let it get that far:yuck: 

The minute I see it I tell em' NO, and take whatever it is there going to town on. My males thing has been fleece, my females thing was a pillow, mine:doh:


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

My son 7 his wife had a black lab mix that "fell in love" with this large stuffed Teddy bear. At first they were wondering why they would find the bear on the floor when they got in from work. Then they caught hank one day. At first he would only go after that bear in the bedroom when noboyd was looking--or he thought nobody was looking. But finally he started to bring it into the livingroom and go to town--no matter who was there. The bear ended up in the garage. he never bothered anything else. He died of heart attack at age 5 (like our golden Scooter did). they have a 4 year old chocolate llab mix, Godiva, and she goes after my DIL workout ball, a big beach ball looking thing. They never had her spayed despite our fussing at them. Hank had been fixed at abou 8 months.


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## Jude's Mom (May 19, 2005)

I had also heard that if you neuter your male to early that they will not grow their full coat. Anyone heard anything like this before?


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## DEE (Jan 17, 2006)

We Had An 8 Year Old Male Who Just Passed Away From Cancer Who Would Go To Town With The Couch Cushions Until We Had Him Neutered- He Still Had A Beautiful Long Coat. We Have An 8 Week Old Pup( Clyde) Who Has Started On Legs Already.


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## Skenney (Jul 10, 2005)

In regards to neutering affecting the growth of the coat, I've never heard such a thing. What would their sexual organs have to do with hair growth? Rusty was neutered at 9 months and has a full coat. I've also never heard of a dog humping and making a "mess"! Maybe you should ask the vet when is a good time to get him neutered if he's making a nasty mess in the house.


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## blkittygirl (Aug 13, 2005)

*Coat & Masturbating*

First of all, I never mentioned coat at all. I was concerned because of the masturbating, nothing to do with his coat. He doesn't use anything to hump either. It is his ....he's using and I want to know if it's normal not if it will stop when he gets neutered. He's 6 going on 7 and he's not being neutered. He has never been bred. I would like to know if he will stop by himself. He doesn't do it everywhere, cuz I yell No when he starts, so he usually goes into the hallway. Thank God it's tiled not carpeted. I am not asking this to cause an uproar, I'm genuinely disturbed by it and wanted to know if anyone of the experts on the site knew of this and what to do and will it stop at some point down the road. If there was light at the end of the tunnel I wouldn't be so freaked out by it...Help!
B


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

I haven't heard anything about it......but the books don't even cover humping, let alone masturbating.

I will research a little and see if I can find anything at all and post whatever I find.

Rick


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Bouncing around different dog forums, it appears that it's common. But I can't find any actual advice on what to do about it. Or if and when it starts or stops.

I will keep looking around. It's a tough subject to search for, only because the internet is so full of "real perversion."

I'll see what else I can find.

Rick


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## Allie and the Gang =) (Apr 21, 2005)

If you are so disturbed by it and you are NOT going to use him for breeding, HAVE HIM NEUTERED! Easy solution, he is probably somewhat frustrated being that old and never being bred *THAT IS NOT TO SAY THAT YOU SHOULD BREED HIM......


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## shaneamber (Apr 20, 2005)

I've seen this before in Goldens and other breeds.Once they start doing this,they don't stop until you get them fixed.You can try anything you want,but it's already too far gone. If you have no plans on breeding him,just get him fixed and he will stop in a few months.Otherwise it's just going to get worse. Besides,if you get him neutered,you will increase the chances that he WON"T get testicular cancer.
I don't understand why you have waited to get him neutered, didn't your vet explain how high the cancer rate is in Goldens.By getting him neutered you fix a large problem that will only get worse with age and you lower the probability of cancer and give him a longer life.
We have over the years tried to help freinds stop their dogs from doing this.Nothing works at all.If you stop them they just wait for you to go to sleep or leave thm alone,then they just go to it.
Shane


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Yeah....of what I did find, everyone suggested neutering. Besides that, I haven't found much helpful info that we don't already have...

Rick


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## LauraEyes2 (Sep 16, 2005)

On an added note, neutering also virtually eliminates the risk of prostate cancer in dogs


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

LauraEyes2 said:


> On an added note, neutering also virtually eliminates the risk of prostate cancer in dogs


Now what is the right age for neutering? I don't want to do it too early. Plus, there may be an outside chance we may breed Samson once......

Rick


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## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

There is some controversy now about Spay/Neuter. I'm not sure what I would do now if I had a new pup. We have been trained to automatically Spay/Neuter, but it may be more harmfull to your dog than leaving them intact. I have beem hearing this from several sources over the years.

Here is a link:

http://www.mmilani.com/commentary-200509.html

According to this article, castrated dogs are 4 times as likely to get prostate cancer. It is an interesting read, but I still don't know if I would leave my dog intact.


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## LauraEyes2 (Sep 16, 2005)

rwgibbs said:


> Now what is the right age for neutering? I don't want to do it too early. Plus, there may be an outside chance we may breed Samson once......
> Rick



I think the optimal time to have a dog neutered is 6-7 mos of age. This is the time they reach sexual maturity, and hence, the point where you start having to "worry" that your pup might be the cause of an unwanted litter of pups! In my experience as a vet tech, i've seen dogs neutered at all ages. Animals from the SPCA/animal shelters often are neutered at a very young age (i've seen it done around 8-12 weeks old!), since many of the shelters routinely have the pets "fixed" before they are adopted into families. They manage just fine, but I think due to the anesthesia, most vets feel it's a safer bet to wait till they're a little older so their bodies are more adapted to processing the anesthesia.

As for older dogs, i've seen dogs neutered at various stages of their lives, and in my opinion, it's never too late to get it done. Bear in mind, however, that the longer you wait, it will increase the chances of other complications developing (cancer, male aggression, etc). So if there isn't an interest in breeding, there's no point in waiting (my personal opinion, but that seems to be the going opinion). If you are considering breeding your pet, there's no problem waiting to decide as long as the owner is responsible, both as a pet owner and as breeder. An unneutered dog can still father a litter of pups even if it's not when you planned on breeding him! (and i'm not in any way saying you're not a responsible owner Rick, just making a generic statement!)

Laura


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## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

Some peope like to wait until after one year until they finished growing feelingthat early neutering can affect the development.

As far as cancer, that's debatable. Remember, the cancer risk is testicular and can be operated on once diagnosed.


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## LauraEyes2 (Sep 16, 2005)

Prostate cancer is also a risk--and often goes unnoticed until it's progressed a bit. Research has shown that dogs are incredibly less likely to contract prostate (and obviously testicular) cancer if they have been neutered. If you're planning on breeding your dog, then it's worth the risk. However *IMO*, if you can prevent your dog from having cancer (esp goldens who are prone to more cancer than a lot of dogs), I would say you would be foolish for not getting it done. 


laura


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## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

Did you see the article I posted earlier? It says prostate cancer is increased with castration, and significantly. And the cancer you are preventing by castration is operable. But by spaying/neutering you are increasing the risk other forms of cancer. So in reality you may be foolish by Spay/Neuter your pet.

I'm still not decided. But I think that the trend to Spay/Neuter your pets as a form of making up for irresponsible ownership may become a thing of the past. These studies seem to say that you increase the risks of cancer and are harming your pet by Spaying/Neutering. Some vets I've heard are reviewing their own position on this and may not do the procedures anymore. 

I find this an interesting topic and I am curious to see what happens in the future regarding automatically Spaying/Neutering our pets. Which by the way seems to be a predominantly North American practice.


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## LauraEyes2 (Sep 16, 2005)

Well i suppose it's a matter of debate that depends on opinion, who your vet is, and what research articles you read. I had worked as a vet tech for several years and every veterinarian I had worked with (which at the hospital where i worked, I worked with 12 different doctors) had said that there was a dramatic increase in the risk of prostate cancer with unneutered males. In my experience, any dogs who I had seen diagnosed with prostate cancer (and i've seen many), have all been unneutered males. That alone I found significant enough to back up my belief. 

As with any medical entity, you're going to find journal articles and publications that will tell you adamant beliefs on either side of an issue, whether for or against. My beliefs are based both upon my personal medical knowledge as both a vet tech and a biologist, as well as my own personal experiences. I'm obviously not a vet or a PhD, so i'm not not to say who is right and who is wrong. If you have done research and have beliefs of your own, I won't argue, but I still stand behind my beliefs. Perhaps there _are_ hormonal imbalances that prevail from getting a dog neutered, that lead to prostate cancer. There is enough about cancer that is unknown, that there may not be an answer to that with today's medical reseach. But most effects of not neutering pets that i have witnessed has usually been negative. Everyone's entitled to make their own opinions, but the best advice i can give to everyone is to do your homework and make educated decisions.

Laura


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## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

I agree. That is why I said that I haven't made up my mind yet. And I would never base a decision on one study either. It is interesting that your own experience seem to contradict what this study states. This has been an ongoing conversation on another forum for over a year now and it will continue I am sure.

One thing I can agree with though. Spay/Neuter should not be the solution for irresponsible pet ownership.


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## Goldndust (Jul 30, 2005)

I think its a decison that all should look seriously at before ever doing and go from there. I myself have chosen not too for now, seems like with every positive, there is a negative. I do know most vets will push this on one but I believe this in time is going to change with more information as it comes out. Most times it falls back on being responsible, and neutering or spaying will not fix that problem.

The one study that really made the decision for me is here, and since this is such an aggressive Cancer I decided that the risk may not out weigh the benefits said to be by some. I do plan on neutering, but not yet.
http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/11/11/1434

I don't think neutering will help much in the case in the beginning post because it sounds as if this has become habit, once that happens neutering alone won't fix it.


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## shaneamber (Apr 20, 2005)

I've seen a few dogs that had this problem.Neutering stops it,but not right away.After they realize that it doesn't give them any satisfaction they stop. It takes a while,but they will not bother after a while.
Shane


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## Brinkleysmom (Dec 17, 2005)

Well, my male dog used to hump anything that was available up until he was five months old and then it tapered it off. Since he was the runt of his littler and born blind in one eye, I was not going to breed him, so I had him neutered at six months old and never had another problem. Dont know if that helps at all but hope so. I have heard different stories. Some folks say they do it because they were separated too early from mom and others say dominance. I think its a combination of both myself, especially when the female does it. Thank God I dont have that problem with Brinkley. Good luck


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## blkittygirl (Aug 13, 2005)

*Will Solve This Problem With Spencer*

We've decided to just get him neutered. It seems like the most popular idea and since he's not going to be bred,(too many allergies) it would probably be beneficial to him whether it stops his problem or not. We love him and just want him to be happy! It's what he does best!
B


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