# Play-fighting - yay or nay?



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

First of all, I love the name - we need photos of Midas  

There are 3 parts to this: obedience training / aerobic exercise / management

1) Training: If you're not in a formal class, I highly recommend it. It's very good to get out and practice an environment outside your home with a trainer who can help when you run into a snag and observe your mistakes. (I am constantly learning it's me and not my dog no matter how long I work at becoming a better trainer  ) Continue to work on obedience with Midas, 5-10 minutes a couple times a day if possible, on leash, every day. He's still a teenager and needs continuous reinforcement of the lessons you've been working on. If you haven't done so already, he needs to learn to go to his "place" (it can be a small rug, dog bed or mat) and you can work on him going reliably to "place" and staying there as needed - when you have company such as your grandmother or are simply trying to eat dinner in peace. He needs to learn to settle on command and this is part of it. Here's a great video: 




2) Exercise: Midas is in his teenage phase and is really in need of 30 minutes or so of hard, aerobic exercise that leaves him tired and panting every day of the week. Leash walking does not count, it's simply a warm up. It can be hard to get a young puppy or young dog this exercise because they have shorter attention spans or don't know how to retrieve etc. Start teaching a formal retrieve where he will bring the ball back to you and let you take it to throw it again each time. Work on a reliable recall where you are confident he will come when called. Find a safe place for him to swim or off leash hike with you some. Even a fenced athletic field or church or schoolyard can be a great place on a 30 foot long line to kick a soccer ball or work on obedience.

3) Management: Do not give your puppy the opportunity to make mistakes. When your mother or grandmother visit, keep midas on leash so you can control his antics. Have him perform obedience commands like "down" and "stay" for a treat, have him go to his "place" for 10 minutes. He's old enough to get this. Keep him dragging a leash so you can control any breaks in obedience. People who cannot exert authority over him not to play bite should not be rolling around on the floor with him. That's how things get out of hand and he gets overexcited. ALWAYS make sure he's had adequate exercise before your company arrives. If that's not possible or it's still too much, crate him when you have company with children or older folks. Begin practicing acceptable behavior on friends who are sturdy adults who will not pet him when he acts wild. Ask friends for help in advance and let them help you with training. Find dog loving friends or neighbors who will pop over for 10 minutes simply to help you work on this if possible. 

Be consistent and don't give up, if you work on this like a full time project without slacking off for the first couple years, your reward will be another 10 years of an awesome family dog


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

Nolefan gives great information.

"When he's riled up and over-excited from running around, and he's leaping up to bite and tug at clothing, he does very well with simply being told "no biting" -- he'll generally go into a sit immediately" 

This is great that he will stop and go into a sit. This would be time to do a mini training session of fast sits and downs to get his mind in a calmer place. 
I would also think about becoming more aware (being proactive) and stop the fun and games before he gets to the point of jumping up to bite and grab clothes. This will be a work in progress as you learn to judge how much play is enough and how much is just to much. So, when he comes back to you after the running and playing have an immediate routine of maybe a hand target, a sit, possibly a spin, a down and give him lots of rewards. Do it before the jumping and biting and you will create a nice habit and it will also keep the playtime continuing when you call him back to you. 

"When he's at ground level with someone, he likes to cuddle up and start lolling and rolling around against them or in their lap, and the play-biting starts then as well, and is much more difficult to stop."

He is still very young. Any play biting while you are on the floor with him, You just get up and leave. If you do this enough he will learn that the cuddle fun time stops if teeth touch skin. 

"with some saying play fighting should be avoided at all costs, and others saying that it helps provide feedback. "

I don't play fight with my dogs as I think it gives a mix message that it is acceptable to bite your hands. 

I do teach a take it, a give, a drop/out. And then I will play very short games of tug. These games with young dogs should only last about 20 to 30 seconds before asking them to give up the toy. With high rewards for giving it up. Then play again. If the dog seems to be getting over threshold don't play as many games. And in between the play have them do some obedience work/training to calm them down. I would consider tug to be a rough game but it has rules to create impulse control. And the dogs aren't learning to bite your hands and arms as if they are toys.


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## TexasGold (Aug 29, 2016)

Some great advice! I am following this thread, as I am seeing some of these issues coming up with my girl. Thanks!!


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Texas Gold said:


> Some great advice! I am following this thread, as I am seeing some of these issues coming up with my girl. Thanks!!


Always trust the advice of Nolefan and Solinvictus, they're two of the best on this board.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I'm going to say something pretty crazy, but I think after dogs learn to play fight with other dogs - it's easier for them to learn the difference between playing with people and playing with dogs. 

The tough part is the best way to handle this is get a second golden.  

Otherwise - the next option is check around for friends who have nice, friendly, temperamentally "sound" dogs who can play with your dog at least once a week. That might not be enough for some dogs... my guys playfight several times a day. It's what they do. I think as the dogs get older - it keeps the older ones "young" longer if they have a buddy a 2-5 years younger who are their buddies. But it is better than a frustrating situation where you have a young dog who wants to play but doesn't know how. And even if he learns to play with his people, he still isn't getting that outlet for the natural normal way that dogs play.

Other thing though.  If you do playdates or if you get a second dog. Playfighting needs to be monitored to teach the dogs limits early on. Otherwise, playfighting sessions usually end with one dog or the other pushing a little too much or you get mounting behaviors developing (which isn't allowed with my dogs). 

^^^ I'm typing all that out pretty carefully, because I'm not a fan of the "dogs need SOCIALIZATION AND PLAYTIME" as pushed by some people out there, particularly where it leads to people turning their dogs loose at dog parks and other places where fights can happen or there is little to no oversight or control of the other dogs. The bit above about stopping/interrupting the playfighting after a certain amount of time is something that isn't done too often by some people and it does lead to behavior issues that are a pain to correct.

Or my other pet peeve is people trying to use obedience classes as "play time" for the dogs.

I do think that it's normal and natural that dogs have outlets for playing with other dogs. It's good for them. Just advise a conservative approach (arrange playdates with friends who have similar nice dogs) or plan to get a puppy by the time your dog is 2-3 years old.


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