# Obedience/Rally Question?



## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

Rally is 90% you - especially in the novice level. There are footwork traps that will make the difference between a Q and an NQ. As long as he stays with you on leash in an informal heel he'll Qualify. So my suggestion is for you to learn the signs, read the descriptions then find someone who is doing CKC rally and knows the signs (doesn't help to learn them incorrectly). Pay particular attention to what is a step (and what isn't).
Erica


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

MurphyTeller said:


> Rally is 90% you - especially in the novice level. There are footwork traps that will make the difference between a Q and an NQ. As long as he stays with you on leash in an informal heel he'll Qualify. So my suggestion is for you to learn the signs, read the descriptions then find someone who is doing CKC rally and knows the signs (doesn't help to learn them incorrectly). Pay particular attention to what is a step (and what isn't).
> Erica


I know that he wouldn't have any problems as he's working EXCELLENT on both on & off-lead exercises. It's ME I'm concerns about:doh::doh::doh:


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Honestly Gwen you probably don't even need a quick class. Just look at the signs (they're probably online at CKC, they are at AKC and UKC) and read them. They're pretty simple, stuff like 360 degree right, pivot left, etc. It's pretty much the pieces of formal obedience. 
At a rally trial (at least here, guessing it's the same there) you will be given about 10 minutes to walk the course just like in agility. You can see what the signs are and where they are, and ask any questions if you don't understand one.
Rally is supposed to be a preparation for formal obedience.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> Honestly Gwen you probably don't even need a quick class. Just look at the signs (they're probably online at CKC, they are at AKC and UKC) and read them. They're pretty simple, stuff like 360 degree right, pivot left, etc. It's pretty much the pieces of formal obedience.
> At a rally trial (at least here, guessing it's the same there) you will be given about 10 minutes to walk the course just like in agility. You can see what the signs are and where they are, and ask any questions if you don't understand one.
> Rally is supposed to be a preparation for formal obedience.


The problem with that is that most judges won't answer specific questions in the ring - it's the exhibitor's job to come prepared and to know the signs - this is stressed over and over again in the AKC judges' seminar. 

On the other hand, if you ask fellow exhibitors you risk getting the wrong answer to your question. If there's a class available go take it - not for any of the basics which you already have (heeling, fronts, finishes, etc) but for understanding the special bits of footwork and getting some mileage walking a rally course...

Erica


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## kgiff (Jul 21, 2008)

What I did was take a couple of private lessons where the signs were explained to me and we got to do a couple of rally courses. This really helped me get ready. As others have said, it's 90% you. It's a ton of fun!


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## Riley's Mom (Jul 6, 2008)

When I decided to get into Rally I took an 8 week Rally session. At the end of the 8 weeks I entered 3 trials and we had our RN and placed all 3 times. I don't think I would do it without going to classes. I like to make sure I have a good understanding of what I'm doing. Rally is fairly easy but you still can misunderstand a sign or get lost on a course. Good Luck!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Guess we have nicer judges around here. During the walk through they've always been willing to answer specific questions (but only during the walk thru).




MurphyTeller said:


> The problem with that is that most judges won't answer specific questions in the ring - it's the exhibitor's job to come prepared and to know the signs - this is stressed over and over again in the AKC judges' seminar.
> 
> On the other hand, if you ask fellow exhibitors you risk getting the wrong answer to your question. If there's a class available go take it - not for any of the basics which you already have (heeling, fronts, finishes, etc) but for understanding the special bits of footwork and getting some mileage walking a rally course...
> 
> Erica


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> Guess we have nicer judges around here. During the walk through they've always been willing to answer specific questions (but only during the walk thru).


Or you don't have AKC reps at your trials 

The reps at the judges seminar stressed the fairness aspect of it - if X exhibitor spends the time to learn the rules and signs (prepared for the task at hand) and then exhibitor B doesn't prepare and spends the time in the walk-through asking how each sign should be performed (and gets the answer) is that really fair? 

In New England we've seen "those types" that are really unprepared and hassle all the other folks walking the course with "what does this one mean". I've heard people stop walking and help them out with the best intentions - even if it means not having a walk-through for themselves - and I've seen fellow exhibitors give grossly wrong answers to the "askers". I personally don't make eye contact and hope to look unapproachable - as I neither want to "teach the person a lesson" nor do I want to spend my walk-through teaching rally...

Erica


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

LOL, could be that the reps are missing!

I guess I never thought about the scenario you described because we've only done rally a half dozen times, and I've never seen it happen (yet!). What I'm referring to is a question such as, on the step right while moving, does it have to be a lateral side step or can it be diagonal (for example). The judges don't have a problem answering that, but I can see that if someone comes in and hasn't got a clue, it could be REAL annoying!




MurphyTeller said:


> Or you don't have AKC reps at your trials
> 
> The reps at the judges seminar stressed the fairness aspect of it - if X exhibitor spends the time to learn the rules and signs (prepared for the task at hand) and then exhibitor B doesn't prepare and spends the time in the walk-through asking how each sign should be performed (and gets the answer) is that really fair?
> 
> ...


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

MurphyTeller said:


> Or you don't have AKC reps at your trials
> 
> In New England we've seen "those types" that are really unprepared and hassle all the other folks walking the course with "what does this one mean". I've heard people stop walking and help them out with the best intentions - even if it means not having a walk-through Erica


Hey, I don't want to be one of "those types"!!!!!:uhoh::uhoh::uhoh::doh::doh::doh:


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

MurphyTeller said:


> Or you don't have AKC reps at your trials
> 
> The reps at the judges seminar stressed the fairness aspect of it - if X exhibitor spends the time to learn the rules and signs (prepared for the task at hand) and then exhibitor B doesn't prepare and spends the time in the walk-through asking how each sign should be performed (and gets the answer) is that really fair?
> 
> ...


I am in the midwest like hotel4dogs. We have a lot of new people at trials, especially in rally. When new peoples don't know some of the signs, I attribute it to newness, or last minute panic. I can tell you that I had done multiple private lessons and obedience classes and rally classes before my first show- and PANICKED HARD in the walk through- could not remember which way to enter the serpentine. Nice older exhibitors helped me- and the judge came over to make sure I was clear. 

Like hotel4dogs pointed out, the judges here are very friendly and want people to succeed (and I find that in obedience too). And I cannot imagine exhibitors here giving wrong information on purpose. 

Long and the short- you have your CD, so training is not an issue. There are good websites with explanations of the signs. I would look at those and make sure you understand them, but go for it! Have fun!


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

I've done some rally and also am on our clubs rally committee, also help out at our rally classes and steward our shows. If you have a CD on your dog and he is heeling pretty well you will do fine as long as you go on line and study the signs. Sometimes they can be a little confusing, but if you have a good understanding of them you should be fine, and truthfully, when you are doing your walk thrus people are usually pretty willing to help you out on any you don't fully understand. The judge will answer questions, but not on how to do the signs, usually only on any ring procedures such as where to do the honor in the excellent class, where to leave your leash in the advanced or excellent while off leash. etcetera. I like rally, and when done right it is really quite pretty to watch. But I have seen some horrible runs. Usually by a handler and dog that has never seen the inside of a ring. My feeling is that even though rally is promoted as a bridge between rally and obedience, you really do need at least some basic obedience training. Rally is all about doodling, usually used to tune up an obedience dog's heeling skills. I think you will do fine, just learn the signs, maybe print them out if you can and practice them and you will sail right thru novice. Advanced and excellent can get a little tricky, all done off leash, I thought since my dog got two first places in his advanced tries the third leg would be a snap. Nope, he nq'd by deciding that the food in the dog bowls on the offset figure 8's was put especially put there for him. Next try he thought it would be fun to do zoomies around the ring. Finally we got that third leg but he made me real humble while getting it.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

Gwen said:


> Hey, I don't want to be one of "those types"!!!!!:uhoh::uhoh::uhoh::doh::doh::doh:


You couldn't be one of "those types" - because "those types" would never ask the question well in advance of the show 
Erica


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Hi! Learn the signs, and do some practice runs. I made little flipcards for the signs and printed off some practice rally courses, but I had each exercise spaced way too far apart, so my first trial I couldn't believe how close the signs were and ended up totally blowing by one! If you are taking a formal/advanced obedience class I don't think it's worth the money to pay for a separate rally class.
I have found judges AND exhibitors to be VERY helpful in clarifying signs and procedures for signs in the walk-thru. I am always happy to answer someone's question while I'm walking thru and it is very common to have several exhibitors clustered at a sign trying to decipher it, and to ask the judge for clarification. Usually, does this mean sit here, which way to walk in an offset figure 8 (every judge is different), etc. I've never had a judge tell me that I'm unprepared and out of luck! 
Best of luck,


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## Muddypaws (Apr 20, 2009)

Hi, Kirby and I are brand new to Rally, she has no formal obedience just basic and her CGC. I took it to help with her focus and we both love it. Saying all that, our instructor said that unlike obedience Rally is about "talking" to your dog. They are looking for you to talk to your dog through out the course. Kirby is doing great and I am getting better at my queing (sp?). That is the hard part for us and getting the signs correct and don't miss a sign. We haven't shown yet, but I have noticed that the advanced people will sometimes miss a sign.

The class can't hurt and it can give you insight to the differences between Rally and regular Obedience. And it's a lot of fun!


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

Muddypaws said:


> Hi, Kirby and I are brand new to Rally, she has no formal obedience just basic and her CGC. I took it to help with her focus and we both love it. Saying all that, our instructor said that unlike obedience Rally is about "talking" to your dog. They are looking for you to talk to your dog through out the course.


Depends on the venue really...You CAN talk to your dog but you don't HAVE to - a silent run isn't going to be scored any differently than a loud cheerleading one. If you are using rally as a stepping stone towards formal obedience all that chattering is going to backfire on you later when you go into the obedience ring and suddenly you don't say anything...

I think when rally first became a titling event it was very raucous, there were certainly people who believed with every fiber of their beings that they needed to hoot and holler at their dogs in the ring....there would be comments about silent competitors with the suggestion that they weren't having enough fun or they were doing something wrong. Now that rally has matured it's more about being kind and fair to your dog and not so extreme...I don't perceive rally rings to be any louder than the obedience rings - and that is a change from 4 years ago for sure...

Erica


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

MurphyTeller said:


> Depends on the venue really...You CAN talk to your dog but you don't HAVE to - a silent run isn't going to be scored any differently than a loud cheerleading one. If you are using rally as a stepping stone towards formal obedience all that chattering is going to backfire on you later when you go into the obedience ring and suddenly you don't say anything...
> Erica


Or the opposite -- it's funny b/c when I am training I talk up a storm to Fisher while we heel, but get in the rally ring and start jabbering away and Fisher is like, what, is this not for real? And doesn't do as good a job heeling. This bled over into the obed. ring where I felt heeling was going downhill due to Rally. He does much better if I shut up and heel like we're actually in a competition, with a few verbal pick-me-ups along the way. I've had several judges tell me "it's OK to talk to your dog" or whatever. Ummm...okay!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I found the exact same thing with Tito, I can't jabber at him or he doesn't take it seriously. 
Our agility instructor has had us, over the last couple weeks, run the course TOTALLY SILENTLY except for telling them the very first command and saying HERE (or whatever) at the end of the course.
I never would have believed it if we hadn't done it. She says that when the dogs are all pumped and running agility, all those words we are shouting out just sound like BLAH BLAH BLAH to the dog. 
So we are required to use just body language to direct them thru the entire course. Naturally this is hard because these goldies are so much faster than we are, but it's absolutely amazing. They run the course as well, if not better, if we just shut up and point, lean, etc. 
Guess I strayed OT here....




K9-Design said:


> Or the opposite -- it's funny b/c when I am training I talk up a storm to Fisher while we heel, but get in the rally ring and start jabbering away and Fisher is like, what, is this not for real? And doesn't do as good a job heeling. This bled over into the obed. ring where I felt heeling was going downhill due to Rally. He does much better if I shut up and heel like we're actually in a competition, with a few verbal pick-me-ups along the way. I've had several judges tell me "it's OK to talk to your dog" or whatever. Ummm...okay!


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