# "Senioritis" degenerative disc disease



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

another thought to put out there.....what do you feed her and how much? Sometimes the loss of muscle is a lack of protein in a senior dog's diet.


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

I'm with you on helping our seniors age gracefully and enjoy their golden years. It is not easy. My mother used to say, "Getting old is not for the faint of heart."

Prayers for Baylee and Beau.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Andrea*

Andrea

I am so sorry this is happening to Baylee and honestly I didn't know that dogs could get degenerative disc disease.

Sorry I have no knowledge to offer on this, but know that all of you are in my prayers every night!

I googled it and here is some info:

http://www.google.com/search?source...US370US370&q=degenerative+disc+disease+in+dog
www.SynergyPainRelief.com
►Search ResultsCanine Degenerative Disk Disease ~ Pawprints and Purrs, Inc.Most dogs with degenerative disk disease are 3-7 years old. It is a spontaneous event that is most likely controlled by genetic factors. ...
www.sniksnak.com/doghealth/degen-disk.html - SimilarWhat Are the Treatments for Degenerative Disc Disease in Dogs ...What Are the Treatments for Degenerative Disc Disease in Dogs?. Canine degenerative disc disease is a painful ailment of the spinal column that causes ...
www.ehow.com › ... › Dog Degenerative Diseases - Cached - SimilarCanine Degenerative Disc Disease | eHow.comKnowing what canine degenerative disc disease is and what causes it is the ...
www.ehow.com › ... › Dog Degenerative Diseases - Cached - Similar


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

hotel4dogs said:


> another thought to put out there.....what do you feed her and how much? Sometimes the loss of muscle is a lack of protein in a senior dog's diet.


Thanks for the excellent suggestion. I had forgotten that piece. I was adding beef protein to her diet at the vet's recommendation but it was making her stools like pudding so I stopped. I'll go back to adding some source of protein. All of my dogs eat Wellness white fish and sweet potatoe with pumpkin and digestive enhancers added.

I wonder if that could be enough of a difference to account for her change.

Thank-you


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

It made a big difference for my Toby, huge. He was seriously protein deficient. 
Tons of dogs have trouble with beef. If they are doing well on the Wellness white fish and sweet potato, think about maybe adding something like sardines in spring water, no salt added.




BayBeams said:


> Thanks for the excellent suggestion. I had forgotten that piece. I was adding beef protein to her diet at the vet's recommendation but it was making her stools like pudding so I stopped. I'll go back to adding some source of protein. All of my dogs eat Wellness white fish and sweet potatoe with pumpkin and digestive enhancers added.
> 
> I wonder if that could be enough of a difference to account for her change.
> 
> Thank-you


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Sardines is a great idea. Beau is allergic and can only eat the whitefish and the other dogs are dioing great with it. I put sardines on my shopping list for this weekend.
Thanks.. I'll try what ever I need to do to help her, except feed raw....can't quite go there.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

work up to adding the sardines gradually or you might end up with pudding poop again. My Toby gets 1/2 can, twice a day for a total of a whole can per day. Lots of good omega 3's, too.
The only place I've found that carries the no-salt added, in spring water, is our Super K-marts.


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## lucysmum (Sep 2, 2010)

I am sorry I know nothing about this. But I am always thinking of you, Beau, Baylee and of course Baxter. 

I could tell you to stop worrying...... But I know, ..... as in my case too......it's impossible to stop worrying. 

Hugs to you all. 
Tracy and Lucy


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

hotel4dogs said:


> work up to adding the sardines gradually or you might end up with pudding poop again. My Toby gets 1/2 can, twice a day for a total of a whole can per day. Lots of good omega 3's, too.
> The only place I've found that carries the no-salt added, in spring water, is our Super K-marts.


Thanks for the info. I started my gang with half a sardine and I'll work up to a larger amount as they seem to tolerate it. I wasn't able to find the no salt added version at my regular market so I'll have to scope that one out at some other stores.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I just wanted to ask if you have an orthopedic specialist you can get a referral to from your regular vet? When our own Beau started experiencing some spinal issues our vet referred us back to a orthopedic surgeon for radiographs and consultation. We tried a medication, but it wasn't as helpful as the acupuncture. That's been almost 8 years ago and maybe they have some new tricks in their arsenal now.

One other thing that is relatively new but some vets are seeing improvement--stem cell transplants. If the degeneration is due to osteoarthritis, this may be an expensive but possibly effective option. Toby's vet is certified to do these and it's my understanding more vets are doing it across the country. I believe the lab that works with the stem cells is located in California too.

Here is the link to the website: Dog Hip Dysplasia | Arthritis | Canine | Stem Cells | Elbow | Joints | Feline | Tendons | Ligaments

And Hotel (Barb): looky here--they are starting to try stem cell transplants for IBD: :Vet-Stem is currently evaluating the use of stem cells for treatment of irritable bowel disease, atopy (immune related skin disease), kidney, and immune mediated diseases"....


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Andrea*

ANDREA

Checking in on Baylee, Beau, Baxter and you.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Dallas Gold said:


> I just wanted to ask if you have an orthopedic specialist you can get a referral to from your regular vet? When our own Beau started experiencing some spinal issues our vet referred us back to a orthopedic surgeon for radiographs and consultation. We tried a medication, but it wasn't as helpful as the acupuncture. That's been almost 8 years ago and maybe they have some new tricks in their arsenal now.
> 
> One other thing that is relatively new but some vets are seeing improvement--stem cell transplants. If the degeneration is due to osteoarthritis, this may be an expensive but possibly effective option. Toby's vet is certified to do these and it's my understanding more vets are doing it across the country. I believe the lab that works with the stem cells is located in California too.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your suggestion. I was thinking of getting an opinion from an orthopedist but not sure how that would change my current treatment with Baylee. I have been working closely with the rehab vet with the use of heat and cold and varying Baylee's exercises. I also increased the acupuncture again to weekly, then I'll taper down to every other week. Part of me wants to know if I am dealing with a progressive disorder or if Baylee is just having "muscle spams" which was suggested by the therapist at the clinic. At any rate I think x-rays may help clarify the problem a little more. When I asked the PT at the clinic if he would recommend x-rays, he indicated it wouldn't change the treatment program so why bother. I am a "need to know" type of person and I need to know for sure what is going on with my Baylee. I think I'll have a chat with my vet regarding any further suggestions.

I just wanted to add...ALL my dogs LOVE the sardines I am adding to their meals to increase the protein.


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Sometimes the treatment protocol IS changed based on a diagnosis. You might mention the progression to your vet and ask about myasthenia gravis (which I hope it isn't). For some disorders,medication would help along with what you're already doing. Smooches to your pooches, and Happy New Year to you.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

What supplements is Baylee taking? Is she on any pain/arthritis meds?

I used a combination of pain meds/ anti-inflammatories/supplements and laser therapy/acupuncture and massage and heating pads for Copper's multiple issues. He had arthritis in his hips, a different type in his right shoulder, and something going on in his spine that at one point caused his front end to trot and his rear to do the frankenstein stroll.

X-rays showed the problems with Copper's hips and his shoulder arthritis was a "lucky shot" taken for something else. However, his ortho vet would manipulate all his joints and could give a much better analysis of what was going on than the holistic vet or his regular vet.

With a combination of these things, Copper did pretty well right up to the end. Growing old gracefully I'll accept for me - I'm gonna fight it with my dogs. ;-)


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

coppers-mom said:


> What supplements is Baylee taking? Is she on any pain/arthritis meds?
> 
> I used a combination of pain meds/ anti-inflammatories/supplements and laser therapy/acupuncture and massage and heating pads for Copper's multiple issues. He had arthritis in his hips, a different type in his right shoulder, and something going on in his spine that at one point caused his front end to trot and his rear to do the frankenstein stroll.
> 
> ...


Baylee is taking gabapentin for pain, denamarin, glycoflex 111, platinum stamina to prevent muscle wasting, fish oil, digestive enhancer by dogzymes and cran-tri-C for the bladder. I also give her something called Cornucopia by Dogzymes that is a powdered mix of various vegetables.

I will jump through hoops for my dogs. I'm just uncertain where to go from here. I'll speak with my vet to see if he might suggest an ortho recommendation. I really like my regular vet and also the rehab vet and I'm sure they would welcome my thoughts for further investigation.


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## Augie's Mom (Sep 28, 2007)

BayBeams said:


> Thanks for the info. I started my gang with half a sardine and I'll work up to a larger amount as they seem to tolerate it. I wasn't able to find the no salt added version at my regular market so I'll have to scope that one out at some other stores.


Trader Joe's has sardines in spring water, no salt. I buy them for Augie and I think they are about $1.99/can. Also, another good source of protein is a hard boiled egg.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I know you jump through hoops for your dogs. I've read your threads. Someone else mentioned grwoing old gracefully.

I'm not familiar with gabapentin. It sounds like you are covering the bases with your supplements. The only one I can remember using in addition to Glycoflex III and Rimadyl was SAM-e. You can't use that with Tramadol, but I didn't find any other side effects. copper's internal specialist and ortho recommended it, but we didn't get to use it long enough for me to be sure it worked.

The only other thing we tried that you didn't mention was cold laser therapy. On a bad week, Copper would get 3 treatments. They really helped. You could see a change as he walked out of the office.

I hope you find the magic bullet. Give your guys/girl a big hug for me.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

coppers-mom said:


> I know you jump through hoops for your dogs. I've read your threads. Someone else mentioned grwoing old gracefully.
> 
> I'm not familiar with gabapentin. It sounds like you are covering the bases with your supplements. The only one I can remember using in addition to Glycoflex III and Rimadyl was SAM-e. You can't use that with Tramadol, but I didn't find any other side effects. copper's internal specialist and ortho recommended it, but we didn't get to use it long enough for me to be sure it worked.
> 
> ...


 Oh I so appreciate your posts and checking in on my pups. If I sounded "snappy" it most certainly wasn't intended. That is one of the difficulties of writing out thoughts the inflection gets missed. 
Denamarin contains samE and I believe milk thistle. It is good for liver support, overall well being and indirectly pain.

Baylee has received laser treatment at the therapy clinic but I have only seen them use it once. I'll check with them to see if they can add it more regularly.

She actually had a really good day yesterday, the day after her acupuncture so I am keeping my fingers crossed.

Thank you for any and all suggestions. The more ideas I can draw from the better I can help my pups.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Augie's Mom said:


> Trader Joe's has sardines in spring water, no salt. I buy them for Augie and I think they are about $1.99/can. Also, another good source of protein is a hard boiled egg.


Oh that is good to know I'll check out Trader Joes. That is a big help!


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Baylee*

Glad Baylee had a good day-praying!


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Baylee had a decent day today. I took the gang to the park and she took a short walk, all was good until she tried to get into and out of the car. She acted like something was very uncomfortable and I needed to lift her in and out. I, later had her use Beau's ramp to take any stress off her back or neck.
When I take Beau to the vet for a recheck on Monday I'll talk to my vet about getting x-rays or an ortho referral for Baylee. It is such a juggling act between my 2 seniors, trying to keep them well and they are only 9. It just seems like they are aging way too early.


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

I'm sorry Baylee was having a hard time today. It is so very difficult to handle two who are aging, isn't it? My Charlie is 12+ and Joker is 9+. Between the timing of their meds and the other care they need, spontaneity is a fond memory for us. The vet bills went well over $1K last month, and I expect something similar this month. Worth it if it keeps them comfortable and with us for a long, full lifetime. But not easy.

By the way, Harris Teeter also has sardines packed in water with no salt added.

Holding you and your Golden pack in my thoughts and prayers.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I am so sorry Baylee was showing signs of pain.

Copper took Denamarin when they thought he had liver problems. It was his spleen and after removal we had 1 year and 8+ more months. I don't think it had as much as they recommended for arthritis. He was taking 200mgs of SAM-e 1X a day. Baylee is taking so many supplements I think the laser therapy might be your best try.:crossfing When I took Copper to his ortho vet in July, he had a very disjointed gait and they suspected a spinal tumor. He got better. I don't know if it was the acupuncture, SAM-e, laser or just because, but I sure hope Baylee improves.:smooch:

I didn't want you to think I thought you were overdoing so wanted to clarify on the growing old gracefully comment. I do everything I can for my animals as long as it doesn't hurt them.

Copper was expensive and I worried all the time. I can't imagine the stress of having two seniors. You and your crew are in my thoughts and prayers.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I know exactly what you mean about having 2 seniors....my Tiny is almost 14 and my Toby is almost 13 (and my cat is about 17). It's so hard to juggle what everyone needs, both in terms of time and money. Sending a big hug your way!


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Andrea*

Andrea

I identify having two seniors-Snobear and Smooch.
Hoping vet will know something to help Baylee and will pray for Beau and Baylee and their Mom!


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## lucysmum (Sep 2, 2010)

Is it cold where you are? Maybe it was the cold. I know you said it started to rain when you were at the park the other day... Perhaps it is a combination of both that put some strain on Baylee. 

Sending prayers for you and all your gang.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Baylee has had 2 good days in a row...yahoo! Thanks for keeping us in your thoughts.


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## lucysmum (Sep 2, 2010)

Great news!! Well done Baylee. Keep it up. 

Sending all good things to you and your gang.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Baylee*

So very glad Baylee has had two good days!


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

I found the sardines in spring water with no added salt at Trader Joes for $1.29. I think I may have advance the sardines a little too quickly, silly me, because one of my dogs ended up with runny poo. I reduced the amount again and will try to advance more slowly.
The dogs really think those sardines are yummy.

Baylee is enjoying being a bit of a couch potatoe. The rehab vet advised that I stop her exercises for a bit and try the gabapentin. Not sure what is helping but she is acting a little better. She has her acupuncture this weekend. It seems like she feels better but it could be my attention has just been shifted to Beau.


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## jealous1 (Dec 7, 2007)

Just saw this thread and quickly read through it. I see where Copper'sMom suggested cold laser therapy and wanted to add to that. My Maggie woke me up several days back and I thought she just needed for me to take her outside. I quickly discovered she had lost the use of her back legs. Long story short, other than the normal arthritis often discovered in older dogs, she feels that Maggie has some disc issues in her neck area and suggested cold laser therapy (along w/ prednisone and some tramadol). She had her first treatment this past Saturday and will be going for second on Wednesday. From what my vet said (w/ supporting research on my part), we will be doing two treatments a week for next two weeks and then once a week for the next couple of weeks, then will try maintenance of once a month. She has come a long way since that morning and can pretty much do everything she was doing, just seems to tire out more easily and her back end still kind of looks like a slinky when she walks. I take her on very short walks to exercise her muscles and then put her in a doggy buggy to finish walking the other dogs. I can't say for sure yet what kind of results we will get from the laser therapy but I am hopeful.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Hooray for Maggie! She is a darling.

Yep - Copper had acupuncture, cold laser therapy, prednisone and tramadol. Only occasionally on the Tramadol and I stopped it after he started SAM-e. That is in Denamarin also and you can't use Tramadol with SAM-e. Prednisone did not seem to present a problem.

I also used moist heat on his hips and shoulders and it seemed to help too. He sure liked it a lot.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Just checking in*

Andrea: Just checking in on Baylee
HotelforDogs: Let us know how Maggie does at the vet.


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