# Feeding Senior dogs.



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Green beans are totally worth it to get the weight off. If you cut the amt of kibble, then add green beans, it helps them feel full. Less weight will mean less stress on those arthritic joints. When I was reducing the girls, they were on a food with 350 cals/ cup and were getting 1 1/2 cups/ day, plus some fish oil which added about 80 cals. Also, watch treats. Just like for us humans, they can pack on the cals without thinking. I used their kibble for treats and took it out of the daily allotment.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

of great concern with senior dogs, however, is the amount of protein that they get in a day. He needs 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight (you can subtract a few if some of his weight is fat) per day. 
Any less than that and they will start to metabolize their own muscles to supply protein to the brain and vital organs, beginning with the big thigh muscles. You don't need any more muscle atrophy in the back end than can be helped; it's a problem for our bigger older dogs as it is.
So you need to find out the % of protein in the food, then weight your food on a scale that weighs in grams to see how many grams of food you give him in a day (BTW, for a lot of dog foods, 1 cup is about 100 grams). Multiply that number of grams by the % of protein in the food, then take that result and multiply it by .77, which is to allow for the fact that only about 77% of the protein can actually be utilized by the dogs (this from a lengthy study, it's an average number, some foods a little higher, some a little lower). 
For example:
My 12-1/2 year old female weighs 57 pounds.
She gets 250 grams of food per day which is 28% protein.
250 x .28 x .77 = 54 grams of protein in a day.
Factor in the treats she gets, and she is getting adequate protein.
My 80 pound, 11-1/2 year old male gets the same amount of food in a day or he gains weight.
so he's only getting 54 grams of protein, but needs 80. He's shy 26 grams of protein in a day, which is a serious deficiency.
We supplement his food with cooked muscle meat, which is 92% digestible to the dogs. He gets about 2-1/2 ounces per day of meat added (happens to be rabbit, he also has food problems), plus dehydrated rabbit for treats, to bring him up to the minimum requirement. 
Probably a whole lot more than you wanted to know.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Somehow in all the time on this board...Ive missed the protein math for Seniors!....thanks for posting...much appreciated


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

you're welcome. It's the single most important component of their diet, and a lot of goldens are lacking because of their tendency to gain weight. I talked to the veterinary nutritionist at Royal Canin (who agreed that my boy is seriously protein deficient and needed to be supplemented, he eats a Royal Canin food) and he told me that the protein requirement is the main reason for the "feeding guidelines" amount on the bags. 




LibertyME said:


> Somehow in all the time on this board...Ive missed the protein math for Seniors!....thanks for posting...much appreciated


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

Hotel,

Could you please re-provide a link to this finding on protein requirements as I lost stie of the one you previously provided?

p.s. Have you seen research that differentiates amongst different types/sources of protein (i.e. commercial meat v. based, plant based, homecooked diet, raw, etc)?


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

Payton,

Could you try the Pinnacle Trout & Potato formula - it's 3% less fat than the Duck formula, but still similiar enough in formulation that it might not be upsetting the apple cart as much as switching to another brand at this point. 

Also, what is he getting in terms of joint supplementation?

Lastly, it sounds as if your boy is getting very few calories, so can't imagine he's drastically overweight. Has his thyroid been checked recently?


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

My Bentley is a senior, somewhat arthritic and is intolerant of many grains. So, he is on a rotation of grain-free foods with protein no less than 33% and fat not less than 15%. He consumes somewhere around 1100 calories per day (including treats of grain free bones, blueberries, apples, carrots, etc.) and is about 68 lbs. On most foods he has about 2 cups per day. 

He has much better muscle tone and energy in the last three years since we switched away from lower protein but higher carb foods.

Maybe the Wellness Core fish, or Acana Pacifica (same company as Orijen, but with 33% protein and 17% fat) could be formulas for you to take a look at.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

Good information. I have an 8 year old and I guess I have been a little low on her protein. My kibble is a lamb and rice formula with a 23/14 ratio. The below is an excerpt from a link that supports your philosophy. 

*It’s also a good idea to add some fresh foods to the diet, no matter what you feed, such as eggs and meat (raw or cooked), canned fish with bones (jack mackerel, pink salmon, sardines), dairy (yogurt, kefir, cottage cheese) and healthy leftovers. These foods can also be used to increase protein levels in a diet that might otherwise be too low.* 

http://dogaware.com/wdjseniordiets.html

I will start rotating eggs, sardines, yogurt, and cottage cheese. Birdie will be happy camper.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

sure, it's from the Ohio State Veterinary University website:

http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/1850.htm

if you scroll down, you'll find a chart of the daily needs of dogs per pound of body weight.

Nutrient (Dog )
Energy 10 kcal
Water 10 ml
Protein 1 gm
Sodium 10 mg 
Phosphorus 20 mg 

The following is a chart of the digestibility of various proteins (for dogs):










There is no difference between raw and cooked, here's a pretty well documented article that debunks a lot of the myths about the BARF diet (I could provide you with pages more, but I don't normally get involved in disputes about raw vs. cooked, BARF, etc. because people are almost religious in their feelings about it)

http://webcanine.com/2007/barf-diet/#more-42

you might also like the website www.petdiets.com, which is owned by 2 of the only 30 certified veterinary nutritionists in the US. Anyone else is a "self-proclaimed expert". 





Garfield said:


> Hotel,
> 
> Could you please re-provide a link to this finding on protein requirements as I lost stie of the one you previously provided?
> 
> p.s. Have you seen research that differentiates amongst different types/sources of protein (i.e. commercial meat v. based, plant based, homecooked diet, raw, etc)?


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

Thanks for doing this again, Hotel - much appreciated! **Note to self: _Bookmark is our friend**

_p.s. Payton, protein also determines the quality of the coat, so it's important to make sure your pooch is getting an adequate amount of a quality source of it for that reason. Again though, weight gain and coat changes can also be indicators of hypothryoidism (very common in Goldens), so be careful not to overlook that possible cause.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

Well I added sardines today to bring up her protein percentage. Boy, was she happy. I just couldn't let her kiss me though. :no:


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

One more question Hotel:

When supplementing with muscle meats (or non-calcium containing protein), do you supplement with any form of calcium?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I personally don't, but if you were doing it with a young dog I'm sure you would need to. The only dog I am supplementing is my 11-1/2 year old, he gets about 2-1/2 ounces of muscle meat (rabbit) a day, so I probably am skewing his calcium/phosphorous ratio. At this point I don't have any real concerns about his system leaching small amounts of calcium from his bones to keep the ratio intact; if anything he needs more phosphorous to promote muscle health. But it's a great question, and certainly would need to be addressed in younger dogs.




Garfield said:


> One more question Hotel:
> 
> When supplementing with muscle meats (or non-calcium containing protein), do you supplement with any form of calcium?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

just thinking out loud here, I would think that sardines and/or herring would be one of the best supplemental proteins if your dog can tolerate it (mine can't). They would provide not only readily accessible protein, but also Omega -3 oils as well as calcium.


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