# the use of e-collars, part 3, what made you decide to use one?



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

What made you decide to use an e-collar on your dog?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

This is an easy question for me.
When I saw how much Tito loves the birds, I felt I simply cannot deprive him of the experience of hunting them, chasing them, and retrieving them. It's his greatest joy in life.
But I also quickly realized that the only way I could keep him safe while allowing him to pursue his birds was with an e-collar. When his instinct kicks in, he is so single minded that no whistle or yell in the world is going to stop him or turn him back. 
So I decided to condition him to the e-collar, so that he could play the game he loves and I could feel confident that he would be safe doing so.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Attending Mike Lardy's transition seminar as an observer. Holy cow. It rocked my world 
I said forget it with trying to figure it out on my own, this is THE WAY to go!


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Well...at first I thought I would see how far I could go amish style. But I had prior experience touching an ecollar and being stimulated and begrudgingly back then knew it wasn't that bad at the low levels. Still didn't want a part of it. That was before I got Scout and before I ever thought I would do this field stuff.

When we started training and I realized how useful it would be for some reasons I finally did some research. I read as much as I could on collar conditioning, borrowed Lardy's tape, and talked to lots of people. I wanted to do it right and I am still a student. I was prepared to quit using it EVER if I had some bad reactions from my dog to it. So in that way I thought I could give it a try.

While there is still a flicker of interest in positive training (avoiding CC and FF) the farther I go and I still have a happy, working dog the more I cannot fault it when used appropriately. And I am learning that there is some cool training stuff you can do at really low levels of stim. Lower than even a flick of the ear.

I also was more willing to use it because I feel like if someone is going to develop a method that is highly successful at high levels of hunt tests that is devoid of FF and CC that is going to be someone who has played the game before doing those things. JMO.


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

First, I put the collar on myself and pushed the button; I didn't like it but I didn't die either.

We went to collar condition clinic and learned to start it at the lowest setting and ease up the settings until the dog has a sign of reaction - that is the setting. 

So ... I feel ok about using it to correct but only after I'm sure the dog knows the material (i.e. sit). 

A training buddy mentioned it breaks her heart when she sees the look on a dog's face when the button is pushed and they look like (I think she meant) 'how do I get out of this situation'?

I know the look she's referring to, I don't like it either, but I think it's ok and part of life - so long as the correction is fair and not abusive or excessive.

Learning new territory has uncertainty and growing pains. I learned a new job at work this year, I bet I had that look on my face half the time. It's hard. No one throws money at me all day to do what I want until I figure out to do what they want me to. When I screw up I get a correction. Boy do I remember that! I learned most this year by what I screwed up and got corrected for.

I also agree with our feeld dog teecher's general outlook on a couple things:
1) all dogs are different - maybe some don't need this or that - don't use it if you don't have to
2) re: positive training - the dog gets a more fair and clear picture of what is desired and expected when there are 2 boundaries instead of one - like a circle - inside is Yes, I want you to do this, and outside is No, I don't want you to do this - instead of a continuum of yes yes yes fading into not so much .....

So I would like to use corrections at a distance in a fair and educated manner. 

I have made mistakes and pushed the button set too high.
But hey, I forgave Gladys for the time she knocked me down the stairs butt first - whump whump whump whump whump whump whump whump CRASH.
I forgave her for the times she peed on the carpet, bed, and couch when she was learning.
She forgives me too.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Thanks Boomers_Dawn  I sincerely do thank you. 

You have reminded me of the look behind that statement .... 

Yes, I am the training buddy she is referring to who made that statement, but no, that is not my interpretation of the look. And in fairness, I never saw that look unless a dog screamed - not after a ear prick or blink reaction.

That said, I am looking forward to the responses in these threads. Still trying to decide ....



boomers_dawn said:


> A training buddy mentioned it breaks her heart when she sees the look on a dog's face when the button is pushed and they look like (I think she meant) 'how do I get out of this situation'?
> 
> I know the look she's referring to, I don't like it either, but I think it's ok and part of life - so long as the correction is fair and not abusive or excessive.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Having observed it done well, I accepted it as a vital tool in a program that was the fairest, most effective, and most efficient system of helping my dogs reach their potential in an expeditious fashion. 

Achieving those goals in a timely manner is a consideration for me--I cannot as a hunter wait until a dog is 9 years old for it to be a polished, finished retriever. By that time the dog is getting past its strongest, most vital years for the tough work in the marsh. The timelines may not be as big a concern for those who are only playing the games in search of titles, but for me it is a consideration as my dogs have to be effective hunting companions and conservation tools, as well as team members in our hunt test hobby.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Dawn that was a really cute post!! Thanks


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

Mocha, my wonderful (now old) mutt, was the first dog I used an e-collar with. It was certainly not my intention when I started out training her. We got her from the shelter when she was about 12 weeks old. Cutest thing in the whole world, but she turned into a terror. A wild puppy. She learned how to jump the baby gate in three days so we had to put another on top of it. She learned that if she ran at the swinging door hard enough it would open. We never could fix that.... She made me cry and bleed, a lot. I trained her so that we could live with her, but she was still a terror. But she was also talented, because she was so smart. 

I showed her in novice at a match, and she got up on the long sit and refused to come to me. It was so embarrassing. I couldn't even catch her. No one could until we got four people to corral her. I didn't want to go back in the ring with her but we had entered pre-novice too, which had no off- leash stuff. She won the class with a 195. Annnnyway, we worked and worked and worked on her off leash, distractions, every proofing we could think of. But she knew the second we took of the leash we couldn't catch her. She danced around laughing at me. At an actual show, after we had been excused from the ring for her antics, Connie Cleveland came up and said "we can fix it." So she collar conditioned Mocha. Mocha just needed to learn that even without a leash on, we could still "catch" her. It was amazing. She was much better to live with too because we could give her off leash exercise without having to worry. Mocha went on to get her UUD and about 30 UOCH points before I headed off to college. She is retired now, and if she could hear, she would still have the best recall ever.


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

Sunrise said:


> that is not my interpretation of the look. And in fairness, I never saw that look unless a dog screamed - not after a ear prick or blink reaction.
> ....


Ooops, did I misunderstand? (dang there's no emoticon for that face you make when somebody makes a mistake) 

LOL LOL


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

I personally haven't used an e-collar, but have already decided that if I choose to do some field training with my new pup when he comes home, I am open to using it as a tool in his training. I of course will have to be trained in the proper use of the collar, and will need to find a mentor/trainer willing to help me train my dog in the correct way so he will be successful.


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