# Pigs Ear Aggression



## Krissi2197 (Apr 23, 2016)

We have a problem... Cooper isn't the "perfect puppy" after all.

So today I got bully sticks and pigs ears in the mail. I gave him a bully stick to chew in his crate, and he really loves it. I gave him a pigs ear to chew on while he was in the living room while I ate dinner, and he loved it too.

But he loved it a little too much.

My other dog, Princess, who's an almost 11 year old Shih Tzu Cocker Spaniel Mix, approached him. I didn't think anything of it, since she does this a lot, and he doesn't react in a bad way.

Except this time was much different.

He growled at her, then snapped at her. He didn't bite her, but he was super tense, growled really loud, and gave a good snap in her direction.

So, I gave her her own pigs ear. He promptly went over to her, snapped at her, then took HER pigs ear and started chewing on it, leaving the one I initially gave him alone as if it didn't even exist.

I was horrified.

After a few minutes, I went to pet him, and he growled at ME and snapped at me thinking I was going to take his pigs ear away. I gave him a treat to trade for the pigs ear, then let him chew on it while I held the other end. He seemed fine. He let me pet him. He let me take it away from him and give it back. That was fine.

I let him chew on his own for a few more minutes, and when I went to pet him, he growled/snapped at me again, as if what happened minutes prior didn't happen.

I eventually was able to get it away from him by offering some cheese cubes, but I put the pigs ear away for now... I was horrified at his reactions and had no idea how to handle the situation, and the safety of my other dog is higher on the priority list.

He is NEVER like this. Not with food. Not with toys. He growls sometimes when we play, but he isn't tense, and he isn't guarding, he's just playing. This time he was GUARDING.

I don't know if he acts this way with the bully sticks too, since he only has chewed on one in his crate (I don't bug him when he's in there) but I have no idea what to do right now. I'm honestly really scared and I'm on the verge of breaking down right now. Why is he doing this? Is it something I did wrong? Should I just not give him pigs ears anymore? Should I just give them to him when he's in his crate so nobody can bother him when he's chewing it?

What do I do?

EDIT: He will be ten weeks old on Friday.


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## GoldenFocus (Feb 28, 2016)

I once had a pig ear riot on my hands with a Rottweiler and a Golden in my early dog owner days....I just don't give things larger than biscuits that they can eat quickly to avoid the ownership issues.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Just don't give them to him. Sometimes a dog who is not aggressive or has no resource guarding will do this around other dogs. Chloe did it to my sisters dog at that age with a pressed rawhide. Then wouldn't let anyone have it. She is not even close to being a resource guarder or aggressive. So at the time we just didn't give her those things when she was around my sisters dog. I have no idea how she would be today at 1.5 because we have never done it since turn. You did nothing wrong. My niece and nephew can take anything away from Chloe but boy when she was that age and another dog around. Nope. She is the gentlest dog. If you have no other issues don't worry about it. Just don't give them to him.


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## nala-goldengirl (Jun 24, 2015)

Nala does the guarding and evasive manuevers when she has bully sticks or pig ears. She also tends to get loose stools, so she pretty much doesn't get them anymore.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

My coonhound, Jack, has issues with pig ears also. He is normally the most laid back dog on the planet but give that boy a pig ear and all hell breaks loose. He snaps, he growls and he bares his teeth. As a result there are no pig ears allowed in our house. Jack is a big dog and he could do some serious damage to a human or one of my other dogs. It's just is not worth the risk.


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

We haven't done the pig ears yet. She doesn't seem to react with the bully sticks though. 

I think it's a good idea to hold off for awhile.. We tend to avoid these things mainly because I don't want our older dog getting it when she's on a diet.


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## Krissi2197 (Apr 23, 2016)

I guess I'll keep them away from him for a little while, and try again in a few months and sees if he grows out of it... I doubt he will, though, so maybe I can scrap the pigs ears.

Tomorrow I'll give him a bully stick outside of his crate and see how he behaves with it when other people are around him. If he's the same way, I'll take those away too.

I got them for him because I know they keep them occupied for a very long time. Are there any alternatives to help him with chewing that he may not find "guardable"?? How can I deal with teething and such if I can't find him something to chew on without him getting mean and nasty when someone else goes near him?


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Do you have any nylabones. What about a dogwood stick.


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

Both our old girl & the puppy like the antlers. Zero issues with aggression there. 

The only time I've seen Bayleigh get aggressive over food was a few years ago my mom gave her a turkey neck on Thanksgiving. She turned into psycho dog when I tried to take it away. She forgot "drop it" and went into full on, it's mine, mode! We've never given her that again!


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## Krissi2197 (Apr 23, 2016)

I'm almost afraid to try something new in fear that it will trigger this response in him again... I will try nylabones, and I'll get some antlers and those fake sticks. See how they work out for him.

For now, NO PIGS EARS!!! I almost want to chew on one myself to see what makes the dogs want to guard them so much, lol


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

When chloes friend cooper was over last summer she let him play and chew her nylabones with no problem. There is just something with certain treats. Funny even though she would guard it with the dogs around if it was just her at our house we could take it away with no issue. She loves those dogwood sticks. She also likes the antler shaped ones with ground up antler.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

You didn't do anything wrong, and neither did Cooper. He's a dog and he acts like one. He really liked the pigs ear and didn't want anyone to take it. He's very limited in his abilities to communicate. Besides the guarding issue, eating a bully stick and a pigs ear in the same day can be very rough on his tummy. They're both very rich and fattening. He'll likely have diarrhea.


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## Krissi2197 (Apr 23, 2016)

ArchersMom said:


> You didn't do anything wrong, and neither did Cooper. He's a dog and he acts like one. He really liked the pigs ear and didn't want anyone to take it. He's very limited in his abilities to communicate. Besides the guarding issue, eating a bully stick and a pigs ear in the same day can be very rough on his tummy. They're both very rich and fattening. He'll likely have diarrhea.


Yeah, I was thinking of this too. :c He didn't eat too much of either before I took them away, though. I took the bully stick out of his crate after he chewed on it for about 10 minutes, cause I was worried he'd swallow it when I was asleep.

Hopefully it's alright on his tummy. If he does have loose or watery stools the next couple of days, I'll know why, and likely won't give them to him even if the guarding issue subsides.


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## goldy1 (Aug 5, 2012)

You got great responses. Don't be too worried. Just don't give pig ears. 

Have you tried the frozen Kong? It takes longer to empty it when frozen and the cold is great for a teething puppy.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

I bought something called a Chilly Bone for Max when he was teething. It's basically a canvas bone that you soak, freeze, and give to the puppy. Then you can just soak it and freeze it again.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

Laprincessa had a wonderful idea. I wish I had know of the frozen canvas bones when Bailey was a puppy. Who knows how many pairs of my shoes would have avoided being sacrificial objects for Bailey had I known this?! I bought Nylabones by the box full for Bailey. He loved the puppy ones. I would store them in a container in the fridge and give hIm a cold Nylabone whenever he was having teething pain. He would gnaw on them for at least 30 minutes at a time. It kept him occupied. Eased his pain and gave me (and my shoes) a much needed break. Once he finished chewing on it I would throw it in the dishwasher and then back into the container in the fridge once they had been washed. I think he liked the puppy ones best because when he was tiny they were easy to hold onto. Below is a pic of Bailey with one of his puppy bones. I think he was probably around 12 weeks old in this picture. Gosh. It seems so long ago!


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## Rkaymay (May 12, 2014)

I don't think anyone has pointed out - we don't get to decide what's high value and what isn't. So just be cautious when taking new things from your dog. He may think a used Kleenex is GOLD, even better than a pig's ear. Always be prepared to trade if need be.

Also - I rarely interfere if dogs are guarding from other dogs. It's perfectly within their rights to say "this is my treat, back off". It's normal dog behavior. I just don't like them to guard from ME. For instance, Zelda will growl at Link if he tries to take a bone from her, but she's perfectly ok with me taking it (which I don't usually do, but just knowing I CAN if I have to).


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## -ALBUS- (May 5, 2016)

Definite co-sign on the Dogwood Sticks and puppy Nylabones. Albus loves them both. We're also planning on getting some deer antlers soon, as our breeder really swore by them.


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## Figtoria (Apr 19, 2016)

I am confused about why no one has addressed the main problem.

The puppy should be taught not to growl at anyone. Period. A old friend of mine who used to train guide dogs used to say, "There may be a reason, but there's never an excuse."


Not giving him the toy doesn't solve the problem.

If one of my puppies growls at me, he gets a sharp "NO!" and maybe a growl back and the toy gets taken away.

YOU are in charge, not the puppy. If you can't establish at 3 months old who's in charge, then you are going to have a lot more problems when the dog weighs 75 lbs!

If he growls or snaps again, he gets another sharp, loud, "NO!" and I might push him over on his back or side and hold him there for a few seconds just to establish that behavior is unacceptable. 

I've never had a dog who is a perfect angel, but I've always taught them that I'm the boss and that there are lines they can not cross; growling and snapping are lines that can't be crossed.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Teaching a dog not to growl can be extremely dangerous. Growling is often a first sign that the dog is stressed - it's his first warning. Take away his ability to warn and growl and you risk having a dog go straight to biting.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Sweet Girl said:


> Teaching a dog not to growl can be extremely dangerous. Growling is often a first sign that the dog is stressed - it's his first warning. Take away his ability to warn and growl and you risk having a dog go straight to biting.


You took the words right out of my mouth.
Also, rolling him on his side and holding him down is old school and pretty much not recommended by any reputable trainer these days.


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## Ksdenton (Mar 17, 2013)

Ok so I'm reading this and wondering if I should buy pig ears for my pups to try. Part of me is curious if they would show similar behavior. The other part of me thinks, don't do it. Why risk it? I'm intrigued.


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## Krissi2197 (Apr 23, 2016)

That's what I thought. I don't want to teach him not to growl; I heard that's the worst thing you could do. My other friends suggested I do the alpha roll thing too, but I don't feel comfortable doing that, because I don't want him to be afraid of me.

I assume my only solutions right now are to just either not give him the pigs ears, period, or teach him how to reliably drop things, even if he really considers them high value. For now I will just keep the pigs ears... Once I solidify the "leave it" or "drop it" commands, I'll try again, and work on trading with him.


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## Krissi2197 (Apr 23, 2016)

Ksdenton said:


> Ok so I'm reading this and wondering if I should buy pig ears for my pups to try. Part of me is curious if they would show similar behavior. The other part of me thinks, don't do it. Why risk it? I'm intrigued.


Even after posting this thread, I still did a google search, and it seems that a lot of other people have guarding issues with pigs ears or other high valued treats. 

I think it's worth a shot, cause I would assume different dogs value different things. But if you're more comfortable being safe than sorry, then that's just as fine.


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## Figtoria (Apr 19, 2016)

removed removed


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

Sweet Girl said:


> Teaching a dog not to growl can be extremely dangerous. Growling is often a first sign that the dog is stressed - it's his first warning. Take away his ability to warn and growl and you risk having a dog go straight to biting.


Yes, this. I'm also not a fan of giving treats to dogs that have growled at a human (in exchange for the object being guarded). In this circumstance I would have used the treat as a lure to get the dog to give up the valued item, but would not then have given the treat.

In your shoes I wouldn't give this particular item to the pup again. And I'd start training the "leave it" command right away: starting with items he doesn't value much (trading for something he likes better), and gradually moving on to things he wants to keep (a favourite toy, etc.). It takes a while to become ingrained, but at least next time he guards something (if there is a "next time"), he'll know what you want, even if he chooses not to comply.

I also agree with the warnings against using the alpha roll. It can actually be quite dangerous to do this.


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## Markell (May 11, 2016)

What I would recommend, especially since they are only 10 weeks, is taking it away and putting them in time out. Such as a bathroom or corner with a gate. It shows them this behavior isn't tolerated and any time they growl or snap in regards to food, they are punished. Of course only leave them there for a minute or so. If it happens again repeat, at that age they'll quickly learn and not do it when they're older.


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## craigtoo (Jan 6, 2016)

I will preface my question with the following: I don't own a dog, and haven't for years. I know next to nothing about training. I'm learning a great deal from reading the posts, and books and I hope I'm preparing myself as best I can for when we get our dog next year. 

My instincts would have led me down a different path in this situation and I'd like to know what more experienced people would think of my approach.

If I had two dogs, and I gave Puppy a pig ear and Puppy growled and snapped at Dog after Dog approached, I would be fine with that. That said, it would have definitely given me something to think about. Shortly after (minutes) if Puppy were still chewing on the pig ear I would have approached Puppy and tried to take pig ear away. If he growled and snapped at ME I would have said "No!" and taken the ear and not returned it for a few hours. In a few hours we would try again. If puppy let me take the pig ear (or gave it to me with a give command had he been taught that) with no issue, I would have held the pig ear for a few seconds, looked at it and given it back. If however, puppy growled/snapped I would have said "No!" and put the ear away for a while. (Rinse and repeat until no growl...)

It would be my goal to teach the puppy that when I want something, I'm going to have it, and he may as well not complain about it. It wouldn't be my intent to get him to stop growling all together. But I do see the conflict from the puppy's perspective. In this case, am I teaching the puppy not to growl? Or am I teaching the puppy not to growl AT ME? 

Thanks for your opinions.


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

Sweet Girl said:


> Teaching a dog not to growl can be extremely dangerous. Growling is often a first sign that the dog is stressed - it's his first warning. Take away his ability to warn and growl and you risk having a dog go straight to biting.


This. It is their only ability to say "NO".


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Never mind


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

You don't punish a dog for growling because of s pig ear.


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## craigtoo (Jan 6, 2016)

Cpc1972 said:


> You don't punish a dog for growling because of s pig ear.


I understand. Do you ever correct a puppy for growling AT YOU? (I'm not advocating any position, I'm trying to learn....)


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

craigtoo said:


> I understand. Do you ever correct a puppy for growling AT YOU? (I'm not advocating any position, I'm trying to learn....)


No. The growl is your warning. If you take away the growl you have no signal. When my sisters old guy growls at Chloe he is telljng her he doesn't want to be messed with. My girl never growls though. But she quickly learned to leave my sisters 14 yearold dog alone when he growls at her. Most Goldens are not going to growl in a vicious way at their owners


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Ksdenton said:


> Ok so I'm reading this and wondering if I should buy pig ears for my pups to try. Part of me is curious if they would show similar behavior. The other part of me thinks, don't do it. Why risk it? I'm intrigued.


You know, they really don't need pig's ears. I gave Max one years ago and it gave him wicked diarrhea, so that was the end of that. He seems quite content without them. And like someone else said, we don't define "high value." What's high value to them may be nothing to us. But......if you think it could be a problem, I'd avoid it.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

craigtoo said:


> I understand. Do you ever correct a puppy for growling AT YOU? (I'm not advocating any position, I'm trying to learn....)


I probably shouldn't humanize dog behavior - but I'm going to. 
I am not a patient person. I will tolerate just so much, and then I will "growl" at you. If you continue to do whatever it is that's annoying me, I will let you know in a way that will make you wish your mother had not given birth to you that you should stop that now. 
So, which would you prefer? I growl or I bite without warning? 

Figure out why the dog is growling and then deal with the situation


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

Laprincessa has such a wonderful way of getting the point across. And she's correct IMHO. Why on earth would you want to take away the dogs ability to warn you? They cannot speak, they can merely growl. Trying to attach human attributes to the situation is simply ridiculous. I would far prefer my dog growls at me to tell me, "Hey. Back off." than to have him go to the next step, which is as people have said, generally to lunge and bite. My dog, Jack, has growled when he has had a pig ear. In the 2 years that he has been part of our family (he is a rescue and he came to us at the age of 5 with more issues than the NY Times) and in those 2 years the only thing I have seen him growl over was a pig ear. Gracie has only growled once or twice and those times were when Bailey crossed a line as a puppy. I did nothing because Gracie was teaching Bailey about limits and her lesson was far more effective than anything I could have done. Also Gracie and Bailey do not react when they have had pig ears. Gracie loves them but doesn't NEED them and Bailey has no interest in them. The one time I gave him one (the same time Jack growled over his) Bailey sniffed his, looked disgusted and picked it up and gave it to Gracie. Gluttony being Gracie's one fault, she ate both her pig ear and Bailey's. I am not about to punish my dog for growling to warn me that he wants, and intends to keep that pig ear. There was something so valuable about it to him that the leave it command went straight out of his mind. Rather than fight, punish or get all out of control I simply don't allow pig ears in our house. Problem solved. Dogs do communicate with us. We just have to pay attention to the signals and NOT try to repress them by punishment.


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## Ksdenton (Mar 17, 2013)

laprincessa said:


> You know, they really don't need pig's ears. I gave Max one years ago and it gave him wicked diarrhea, so that was the end of that. He seems quite content without them. And like someone else said, we don't define "high value." What's high value to them may be nothing to us. But......if you think it could be a problem, I'd avoid it.



My curiosity comes from the fact my Bentley (3yrs old) has never shown that behavior towards me. It seems many dogs never have and then suddenly something is so valuable to them they do. I think it would freak me out a little if he did. He's so sweet to hear him growl at me would be an eye opener for sure. I don't want him to for sure but there's that question, would he? I don't expect to try it out.

Your explanation of the situation was wonderful. So basically the growl isn't what needs addressing it's the training required to get the dog to release whatever they have to you.


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## Figtoria (Apr 19, 2016)

I'm sorry, but what you're saying makes absolutely no sense to me at all.

If a dog is worried about something and growling from nervousness, then of course you wouldn't correct that behavior.

But growling at the OWNER is agression. "This is MY bone! Don't you touch it!" It's challenging, it's dominance - it's not stress.

Sorry bub. I'm the boss in this house. It's MY bone. I paid for it and you have it at my whim. Be a good puppy and everything is sunshine and rainbows. Be naughty and there are consequences.

I wouldn't let my children speak to me like that, and I certainly wouldn't let my dog speak to me like that.

Respect goes both ways.


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## MilesToEmpty (Sep 3, 2015)

We have this issue with bully sticks, cheese, and larger treats in general. Zoe gets defensive when our cat even walks by lol.

Its most difficult to deal with when she has a yummy meaty bone. We have to give them to her outside, and on her leash or we will never get it/her to come back. And she use to pee as soon as you would try to take it. 

We have been working on it a lot though, by sitting on the floor/ground when shes eating them and asking her to "come" in an awarding tone. If she comes we will rub her and scratch her an praise her for coming and not touch the treat shes working on. We will even work on rubbing her face and ears to show her we aren't taking the treat away. If her tail is waging then we will let her be. If she growls or gives us the stare we say "NO", and will tell her to drop. If she does not drop we will "take" and take the bone from her and then proceed by making her lay down and stay for a minute or so.

We dont have kids, but my wife is a ABA therapist and has been working with her more then I have lol.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

I think the point is that dogs do not need pig ears and if presenting one to your dog results in growling then the pig ear is removed and not reintroduced. In Jack's case he arrived here a badly battered dog who had been abused to the point he was afraid of everything. A loud voice (even a call of, "Come here Jack!" ) could send him into fits of shaking. To this day he is terrified of gunshots (and there is a lot of hunting that goes on near our lake home) as well as thunder. He was hand shy since he had been badly beaten. He was a resource guarder (is there such a word?) because he had been starved. We have worked with him for 2 years and Jack has made tremendous progress. He no longer guards his food. In fact he will sit patiently as I take his bowl away (because I am not always the brightest bulb in the lamp and occasionally give Jack Gracie's food by accident). He comes to us, and to total strangers now, to be petted. And if you are willing to scratch that area just above where his tail meets his back...well, you have a friend for life. Two years ago if someone touched him he would shake uncontrollably. He still shudders at gunshots and thunder but the thundershirt and hiding in the walk in closet helps him cope. My point is that a pig ear is completely unnecessary in Jack's life. He has issues with them being something he considers so high value that he is willing to growl at me. To punish him for growling would NOT help this dog. He has come so far in the last 2 years but it had to be done with gentleness. He had to learn that hands don't hit here and loud voices do not mean you will be hurt. I will not set up my dogs for failure to prove that I am the alpha in this house. They know that. I have nothing to prove. Jack has become a well trained dog who responds to commands. Gracie is a gentle therapy dog who works with frail elderly and dementia patients and Bailey, at 15 months, is a work in progress. I train my dogs as individual dogs. What will work for one may not work for another but there is one thing I do know, I watch my dogs behavior. I stay tuned into the signals they give me. A growl from Jack was very unusual and setting him up for punishment just because he did what was instinctual in a dog is not something I would do. Pig ears are not worth it. I just don't give them now. I'm the alpha in my house. My dogs know it and I have absolutely no need to prove it.


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

Figtoria said:


> I wouldn't let my children speak to me like that, and I certainly wouldn't let my dog speak to me like that.
> 
> Respect goes both ways.


I'd venture to say you wouldn't push your child into its side & make it lay in submission. I'd also venture to say we wouldn't come up and snatch a Popsicle from a child happily eating it. 

I can say, if we're comparing dogs to kids, which is insanity on its own, that if my son was eating a Popsicle and his sister came over and tried to take a bite- he'd "bark" to say, hey, that's not okay. 

Removing an object (pig ear) is completely acceptable if the dog feels the need to protect it. And reiterating again- I'd much rather my dog warn than bite.


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## Figtoria (Apr 19, 2016)

Kalhayd said:


> I'd venture to say you wouldn't push your child into its side & make it lay in submission. I'd also venture to say we wouldn't come up and snatch a Popsicle from a child happily eating it.
> 
> I can say, if we're comparing dogs to kids, which is insanity on its own, that if my son was eating a Popsicle and his sister came over and tried to take a bite- he'd "bark" to say, hey, that's not okay.
> 
> Removing an object (pig ear) is completely acceptable if the dog feels the need to protect it. And reiterating again- I'd much rather my dog warn than bite.



I would absolutely expect my child to hand me his Popsicle to me if I asked politely and not to bite or growl at me.

I agree the dog/child analogy only works so far. But it's useful nowadays when so many have forgotten that dogs are animals not furry people.

My dogs do not warn OR bite. Neither is acceptable in my household. 

It's been working great for the 35 years I've bred, raised, trained and loved dogs.

If something else works for you, go for it.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

Figtoria said:


> I'm sorry, but what you're saying makes absolutely no sense to me at all.
> 
> If a dog is worried about something and growling from nervousness, then of course you wouldn't correct that behavior.
> 
> ...


The OP had written that her 12 week old puppy growled when given a pig ear for the first time and she was concerned about the behavior.
She was told by many of us that a growl is a dogs way of warning that what is being done to them is something they do not like and that it was not a good idea to repress or punish the growling as it was generally done in place of a snap or bite. It is, to put it in human terms a "Stop it" from the dog. She was encouraged to remove and not reintroduce the pig ear. This removal would be a logical consequence for the dog which did not relinquish the pig ear and instead growled. You have stated that, "be naughty and there are consequences". I am wondering what "consequences" are in your home since you seem to have a problem with the advice to remove and not reintroduce the pig ear.


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

Figtoria said:


> I would absolutely expect my child to hand me his Popsicle to me if I asked politely and not to bite or growl at me.
> 
> I agree the dog/child analogy only works so far. But it's useful nowadays when so many have forgotten that dogs are animals not furry people.
> 
> ...




I guess curiosity is getting the best of me. If we eliminate the dogs ability to communicate dislikes what are they left with?


For instance- we have a senior Golden and an obnoxious puppy. The puppy annoys our old girl. How is she supposed to say stop? Is she supposed to just sit there and let the puppy bounce on her head? Or take her food? Growling is her voice. Honestly- she doesn't growl enough in my opinion. She is VERY well trained. NEVER aggressive. Lets go of anything when told(this came after training her- surely not when she was 10 weeks old as the OP's puppy is). 


I am just curious to how a dog is supposed to communicate if its voice is being eliminated by fear of punishment from its owner?


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

And not to steal the thread- but are the nylon bones safe for the kennel unsupervised? I am SO paranoid about pieces being broke off and back to the vet we go.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

I have used a puppy Nylabone for Bailey when he was little. They aren't the really hard plastic that the adult ones are. They are a bit more rubbery. Bailey was a very vigorous chewer and he never broke a piece off. I don't think I would use them once adult teeth start to come in tho. They are, I think, intended for younger puppies. Also I would leave him with a Kong with peanut butter in it. I would put it in the fridge with the peanut butter in it for about 30 minutes to get it cold. That seemed to help with teething pain when he got older and when he was small trying to lick the peanut butter out kept him a happy camper for quite a while alone in his crate. Hope this helps


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

G-bear said:


> I have used a puppy Nylabone for Bailey when he was little. They aren't the really hard plastic that the adult ones are. They are a bit more rubbery. Bailey was a very vigorous chewer and he never broke a piece off. I don't think I would use them once adult teeth start to come in tho. They are, I think, intended for younger puppies. Also I would leave him with a Kong with peanut butter in it. I would put it in the fridge with the peanut butter in it for about 30 minutes to get it cold. That seemed to help with teething pain when he got older and when he was small trying to lick the peanut butter out kept him a happy camper for quite a while alone in his crate. Hope this helps


It did! Thanks! We do the Kong, filled now.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Your children can talk. They can say to you, "please don't take my toy, I really really like that toy and I want to keep that toy and please don't make me share it." Your dog doesn't have that ability.

Also, I don't consider myself Max's "owner." He's mine, yes, but I don't own him any more than I own my husband. Max is not a little robot who takes every breath because I allow it. If that's how you view your dog, I understand why a little growl would upset you so. For me, if Max growled at me, I'd spend my time trying to figure out why rather than go all Die Hard on him and make sure he knows I'm the boss. 



Figtoria said:


> I'm sorry, but what you're saying makes absolutely no sense to me at all.
> 
> If a dog is worried about something and growling from nervousness, then of course you wouldn't correct that behavior.
> 
> ...


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## Harleysmum (Aug 19, 2014)

I am not big on messing with dogs while they are eating. We only have one dog and no children around at this stage. Otherwise my thoughts might be different. Harley only gets growly with a fresh meaty bone. We still give him bones but I give it to him out on the deck and leave him to it. Until recently we had a male cat who was definitely the boss of the house. On one occasion when Harley had a bone the cat approached Harley who immediately growled a warning. Harley is afraid of the cat. It was interesting to me that the cat barely paused, didn't alter his pace but nonchalantly changed direction acting as if he wasn't remotely interested in Harley or his bone. It was as if the cat had decided that this wasn't a battle he could win so he wasn't going to waste time on it. But it certainly didn't affect his alpha status. I learned quite a bit from that cat. I miss him.


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## Krissi2197 (Apr 23, 2016)

Oh yikes. I didn't mean to make people argue. 

For now I don't think Cooper needs the pigs ears anyway. He is perfectly content with some other chews I gave him, and I'll look into those nylabones or chilly bones.

I give him a frozen Kong but only at night right before bed. That's his "bedtime crate treat". Once that comes out of the fridge he knows it's time to sleep. 

Thank you everyone for the advice and suggestions. I wasn't planning on supressing that behavior or teaching him not to growl; the behavior just scared me and I wanted to know what the best way to handle it was. Taking away the ear seems like the best solution now.

Now if he begins to do this with food or his toys, then we have an issue and I will likely try to train him to do the "trade" thing.


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## Jay-Huck (Jun 8, 2016)

Humans and dogs both respond to expectations, right?
If you set the bar low, they will respond accordingly.
If you set the bar high, they will respond accordingly.

Removing a treat from their life completely because of a tendency they have for possessiveness is robbing both parties: the dog of their potential abilities; and you of an opportunity to grow the thing you love.

A few other points:
-An owner should never fear their pet. If you do, I'm sorry. Self-efficacy can be built, though...
-A pet's behaviors should not dictate what you do and do not bring into the house, the behavior should only dictate the amount of effort needed to properly acclimate the dog to the stimuli (never taking the dog to a park because of aggression issues, or training the dog to manage those issues; not allowing the dog to run off leash because of difficult recall at a young age, or training a solid recall to eliminate the issue).

If a puppy growls during non-playtime, that is behavior that should be curbed. There is nothing taking place in a domestic household that warrants a dog to growl. As for "warning"? Warning me for what? A bite? Train the dog bite-inhibition and tolerance at a young age through socialization/exposure and they will not have to "warn" for anything.
A warning implies the threat of action and I will not have a pet that threatens action on anything. A dog that is worried should look to their owner for help or remove themselves from the situation, not fall back on the threat of aggressive action.

I do, however, understand that if you've adopted a full-grown dog that they can be intimidating, so removal of the items until you feel comfortable with their training makes sense. But a puppy? That seems like sweeping an underlying issue under the rug.

I'm hoping for some feedback, as these are just principles I've been raised with. If your reasoning makes more-than-emotional-sense, I'm open to persuasion.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

I think it's common for puppies to growl over treats because they're so new to the household. It takes time to form a strong bond and trust between the puppy and new owner. And that goes both ways. When Archer was very little, we had a few instances of him growling over high value treats. But we worked together to build trust by trading and practicing the "drop" command. Within a month he wasn't growling over even his most prized treats because he knew he'd get them back or that they were mine. Now I can get him to drop anything and he trusts me with all of his food. When we give him pills we just drop them into the bowl as he's eating.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Jay-Huck said:


> Humans and dogs both respond to expectations, right?
> If you set the bar low, they will respond accordingly.
> If you set the bar high, they will respond accordingly.
> 
> ...


This is rubbish and has nothing to do with the situation the OP had. I am not sure why this thread brought out people who don't even post on this forum.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Krissi2197 said:


> Oh yikes. I didn't mean to make people argue.
> 
> For now I don't think Cooper needs the pigs ears anyway. He is perfectly content with some other chews I gave him, and I'll look into those nylabones or chilly bones.
> 
> ...


Sweetie don't worry about. Some of these people don't even post on this forum and for some reason thought they would post here. There posts have nothing to do with your issue.


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## Jay-Huck (Jun 8, 2016)

Cpc1972 said:


> This is **1* rubbish and **2* has nothing to do with the situation the OP had. I am not sure why this thread brought out people who don't even post on this forum.



*1**If that is how you feel, can you explain why it is 'rubbish' and nothing else? If not, why do you think you felt compelled to dismiss something without being able to explain why? I was hoping to share my take and, in turn, measure it against others, which I clearly stated. I'm not dogmatic, bigoted, or block-headed, so I hope you take the time to respond as you would face-to-face.

*2**I see that it connects to the OP in that it gives my experiential knowledge on how to deal with possessiveness in puppies, which is the situation she described. How is the situation different than what I just described?


This is a web-forum about dogs, please refrain from insulting humans in your subsequent responses.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

This is my generalized opinion on the thread.


Puppies come into our home knowing nothing about how to have good manners when it comes to dealing with humans. They are pretty much a blank slate. It is up to us to teach them these skills.

They are hard wired with instincts to survive out in the wild. Each pup is an individual so some will have stronger instincts than others.

Resource guarding is an acceptable skill/instinct to have if they were living out on their own. It is not appropriate behavior in a home with a family of humans.

First we use management so the pup dose not have the opportunity to learn bad habits. This gives us the time to train the appropriate behaviors we want and expect our pups to do.

Second we supervise our pups when they are actively out and about in our homes so we can guide them to choose acceptable behavior and reward all good behaviors.

Third we actively train our pups to know behaviors that are acceptable in our homes and to build good habits.

According the science of learning it takes our pups 500 to 1000 consistent good repetitions for the pup to truly understand a behavior we will want.

Our pups choose what is high value to them not us.

We slowly train using low value items in non distractive settings over time using the much higher value items.
Once we train it in non distractive settings we will slowly train in more distractive settings.

So if we find our pup sees a pigs ear as a very high value item and the pup hasn't had enough training even on low value items to give/drop or leave it then we don't offer the pigs ear anymore until they are older and have had the training needed for them to act appropriately in our homes with a pigs ear.

I believe we shouldn't use punishment in these cases as it causes distrust between owner and dog. It is up to us to teach the behaviors we want.

Teach what you want the dog to do.

In the process if you the owner make a mistake and the pup gets something they feel is high value that you do not want them to have because it is dangerous don't worry about training just lure the dog to trade the item with something of higher value (give them the treat) if you don't they will learn you are not trustworthy and recognize your mistake and move on. If the high value item cannot hurt the dog don't make a big deal about it, don't try to get it, in this case wait a short amount of time then act interested in something else when they see the item isn't getting the response they want they will find something else to do and you can go put it away.

When dealing with older dogs that are new to your home (new rescues) they are already programmed with bad habits that you don't know of so again you start with management and training as if they are unlearned and new to the world. This is harder because bad habits are harder to disappear vs not just learning the bad habits.


If a form of resource guarding happens consistently you need to up your management skills and seek a professional to help you learn to work through it appropriately. There is also a great book by Jean Donaldson called "Mine" on the subject.


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## Jay-Huck (Jun 8, 2016)

solinvictus said:


> This is my generalized opinion on the thread. . .
> . . .Teach what you want the dog to do.
> 
> In the process if you the owner make a mistake and the pup gets something they feel is high value that you do not want them to have because it is dangerous don't worry about training just lure the dog to trade the item with something of higher value (give them the treat)* if you don't they will learn you are not trustworthy and recognize your mistake and move on*. If the high value item cannot hurt the dog don't make a big deal about it, don't try to get it, in this case wait a short amount of time then act interested in something else when they see the item isn't getting the response they want they will find something else to do and you can go put it away. . .


Love your post, full of good information.
I didn't understand the bolded line, though. Could you clarify, maybe with an example?

Thanks!


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

I am sure many people do this but I have a game.

It is called Let's go get a cookie.

Randomly, while playing or if I am not even actively interacting with my dog I will jump up and take off for the kitchen in a loud pleasant voice maybe even laughing as I do it. I say let's go get a cookie they all drop what they are doing to see what the fuss is about and follow me to the treat jar/fridge etc and when they get to me they get a cookie. Then I just go back to doing whatever I was doing before. it becomes a cue that something good is going to happen. Later I may instead of using food rewards grab a toy in the room I ran into and play a fast game of tug or something.  When I first start this game they aren't busy doing anything over the top fun but after they know the game very well I may randomly do it when they are playing a great game with someone else. They get the reward and then are released to go play again.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Krissi2197 said:


> That's what I thought. I don't want to teach him not to growl; I heard that's the worst thing you could do. My other friends suggested I do the alpha roll thing too, but I don't feel comfortable doing that, because I don't want him to be afraid of me.
> 
> I assume my only solutions right now are to just either not give him the pigs ears, period, or teach him how to reliably drop things, even if he really considers them high value. For now I will just keep the pigs ears... Once I solidify the "leave it" or "drop it" commands, I'll try again, and work on trading with him.


I'm glad you're not going to do the alpha roll.

When I give Shala a big yummy bone, I don't even TRY to take it away. I never have. For all I know, she'd give it up right away. Instead, I walk over near her with the bag of cookies and casually open it. She'll be like, what? You're giving out cookies? And either she'll leave the bone and come get one, or she'll carry the bone over to me and drop it to get the cookies. She gets the cookie, I take the bone and put it up, and she gets at least one or two more. So, without any tension or stress, she has learned that giving up her bone is not such a bad thing - you get three cookies! (and lots of love)



Figtoria said:


> I'm sorry, but what you're saying makes absolutely no sense to me at all.
> 
> If a dog is worried about something and growling from nervousness, then of course you wouldn't correct that behavior.
> 
> ...


Dogs are not human. A dog growling over a bone is not being naughty. He is simply saying, this is mine and I would like to keep it, thanks very much. He has no idea he is being "defiant" in your eyes. 



Kalhayd said:


> And not to steal the thread- but are the nylon bones safe for the kennel unsupervised? I am SO paranoid about pieces being broke off and back to the vet we go.


Big Nylabones were the only thing I would leave in Shala's crate when I left. They can chew off little splinter size pieces and it is okay if they swallow them. But I only left the big jumbo size ones. I know someone here once mentioned their dog bit off the end of a regular sized one.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Krissi2197 said:


> Oh yikes. I didn't mean to make people argue.
> 
> For now I don't think Cooper needs the pigs ears anyway. He is perfectly content with some other chews I gave him, and I'll look into those nylabones or chilly bones.
> 
> ...


If I may suggest, start teaching the 'trade' thing now, and being consistent with it, and not waiting until to see IF there is going to be a problem. Sooner or later he is going to come across something he is going to want to keep, and it may be harmful to him. By teaching him now, that giving up something is rewarding to him, predicts good things for him, and reinforcing what he has learned, can help him to more willingly give up that harmful item, and prevent a guarding incident or accident from happening. 

Resource guarding is a natural (instinctive) behavior, we cannot eliminate the instinct completely, but we can work with our dogs to minimize the risk that they will guard, in an effort to make life safer for them and for us.


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

Charliethree said:


> If I may suggest, start teaching the 'trade' thing now, and being consistent with it, and not waiting until to see IF there is going to be a problem. Sooner or later he is going to come across something he is going to want to keep, and it may be harmful to him. By teaching him now, that giving up something is rewarding to him, predicts good things for him, and reinforcing what he has learned, can help him to more willingly give up that harmful item, and prevent a guarding incident or accident from happening.
> 
> Resource guarding is a natural (instinctive) behavior, we cannot eliminate the instinct completely, but we can work with our dogs to minimize the risk that they will guard, in an effort to make life safer for them and for us.




I agree. I think the trade thing works wonders when they find something super FUN to them outside, but super gross to us.  A good game of trade and you both win.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

"if you don't they will learn you are not trustworthy and recognize your mistake and move on."

That paragraph is in an emergency moment but If you are luring the pup with a high value item to get them to leave the dangerous item alone and you do not give them that high value lure and take the item they are coveting you are teaching them not to trust you that you will wave good things at them and then not give it to them. This isn't the time to train it is the time to realize that somehow you the owner made a mistake and you want the pup to just be happy. 

Then you need to review what happened and work on your management skills and build on your dogs training. 

Example:

the pup managed to get a sharp knife off the counter and is running to hide under the dining room table with it. Don't chase the pup, don't try to grab it go get something the pup really loves and call the pup to you if the pup leaves the knife behind give the high treat and make sure the pup can't get back to the knife. If the pup brings the knife to you give the treat and as the dog takes the treat take the knife.


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## Krissi2197 (Apr 23, 2016)

Charliethree said:


> If I may suggest, start teaching the 'trade' thing now, and being consistent with it, and not waiting until to see IF there is going to be a problem. Sooner or later he is going to come across something he is going to want to keep, and it may be harmful to him. By teaching him now, that giving up something is rewarding to him, predicts good things for him, and reinforcing what he has learned, can help him to more willingly give up that harmful item, and prevent a guarding incident or accident from happening.
> 
> Resource guarding is a natural (instinctive) behavior, we cannot eliminate the instinct completely, but we can work with our dogs to minimize the risk that they will guard, in an effort to make life safer for them and for us.


Is there a good way to teach this? I've seen a few methods, but I'm not really sure where to start. I know you start off low and work your way up to higher valued things.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Krissi2197 said:


> Is there a good way to teach this? I've seen a few methods, but I'm not really sure where to start. I know you start off low and work your way up to higher valued things.



This article written by a certified dog trainer, gives a good explanation of how to work with the process of teaching a dog to 'Trade'.


The Dog Trainer : Teach Your Dog to Give or Drop an Item :: Quick and Dirty Tips ?


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Ok all, I am going to step in here and remind everyone to be civil to one another posting comments in this thread. 

_*Everyone*_ is welcome to post a comment, you may agree or disagree with another member, but please keep the Forum Rules in mind when making your post and be respectful to one another and with each other's viewpoints and opinions.


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## Krissi2197 (Apr 23, 2016)

Charliethree said:


> This article written by a certified dog trainer, gives a good explanation of how to work with the process of teaching a dog to 'Trade'.
> 
> 
> The Dog Trainer : Teach Your Dog to Give or Drop an Item :: Quick and Dirty Tips ?


This is perfect. Thank you!

I apologize for causing arguments. I just wanted advice in how to handle the situation best since I'm new to this.  I didn't mean to cause a fight.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Krissi2197 said:


> This is perfect. Thank you!
> 
> I apologize for causing arguments. I just wanted advice in how to handle the situation best since I'm new to this.  I didn't mean to cause a fight.


This is not your fault, no need to apologize, we have a variety of members here from all over the US and several different countries. We're all different, have different ideas, values, opinions, it's only natural that some of us are going to disagree-it's human nature. 

But............ how you go about disagreeing or expressing your ideas and opinions needs to be within the Forum Rules and everyone should treat others with respect.


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## Lise123 (Jan 1, 2014)

Figtoria said:


> I'm sorry, but what you're saying makes absolutely no sense to me at all.
> 
> If a dog is worried about something and growling from nervousness, then of course you wouldn't correct that behavior.
> 
> ...


My husband had the same philosophy when my six-month-old puppy would growl at him and guard things. He would force the issue and do the alpha roll and rip away the offending item. We ended up with a puppy with a nasty guarding problem.

Fortunately, my husband was open to retraining his methods, and with lots of work on both the husband and the puppy, it ended up okay.

I understand that kind of approach might be well-suited to more dominant breeds of dog that need strong owners, but it didn't work well on my golden.


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

We haven't seen the guarding yet with Dory. We can take anything out of her mouth without too much objection. 

Today, I was reminded of this post. Bayleigh stole one of Dory's chewbones(she already had one and we're being very firm with her diet!) and when asked to drop it, she refused. First time ever since she was trained. Offered some "healthy" alternatives to trade.. She wasn't budgeting. I had to get it- not a peep. She looked annoyed at me, but no guarding. They will & do get better as they age. We've never done an alpha roll, hit, or yelled. She learned from positive reinforcement. It was confirmed that it works today.


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