# 9 Week pup with hip issues and overbite



## briannopper (Feb 5, 2016)

Greetings,

My family just got our amazing little golden pup from a very reputable breeder here in CO. The breeder breeds show dogs, but we have no intention of showing our boy. We just want a great family pet and hopefully a therapy dog.

We just had our first vet appt and received some very concerning news.

1. Vet told us that she felt a lot of popping in his hips and thought that it was highly likely that he had hip dysplasia (which brought my wife to tears ). A surgeon came by the vet office and did a check on him and wasn't as concerned but suggested that we do a Pennhip at 16 weeks of age to be certain. He also runs awkwardly, with a bunny hop, and kinda sideways...is that normal? 

2. The pup has an overbite, which were were told about by the breeder, but assured it wouldn't be an issue since we didn't plan to show him. Well, it appears to be worse than we were told, and the lower teeth are contacting the roof of the mouth creating small holes :uhoh: . The pics were be set to a dental expert for analysis, but the vet said surgery my be required.

My issue is, we absolutely love this dog, and it's only been a week. We don't want to give him back to the breeder, but we want a healthy pup that will be able to be very active with us (hiking, camping, swimming, agility, etc.) and seems that we may have just adopted a pup that may not be able to do those things, and will have lifelong, expensive medical bills. 

My heart breaks thinking about giving him back after one week, and can't imagine the pain if we wait until 16 weeks for the Pennhip and find out that he does have serious hip issues.

I haven't discussed it with the breeder yet, but we will tonight. 

I'm not really looking for a solution, just opinions or experiences that may help us decide what the right thing is to do. 

Thanks,
Brian


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Brian, a reputable breeder will always take back a puppy they bred, but if you elect to keep him (knowing full well that your vet bills will likely be sky high), a reputable breeder will often help with veterinary expenses in a puppy they bred or at the very least refund your purchase price. I think you should speak with your breeder and make a decision partially based on what they are willing to do for you and/or the pup. I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. Do you know other people who purchased dogs from this breeder? Anyone else have these types of health issues? I only ask because sometimes what appears to be a good breeder is actually a greeder who knows how to make it appear that they do all the necessary things, but in fact, they don't.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Get a second opinion at a different vet.....

@9 weeks - I would not be concerned about the hips. I would wait until 12 months or as close to 24 months as possible and have OFA's done if you are still concerned. 

My youngest guy did a lot of awkward bounding and waddling as a 9 week old. When we had OFA's done - he was a "strong good" (2 goods and 1 Excellent as graded by OFA). The vet who did the OFA's for me - she felt he had a good chance at Excellent hips based on what we looked at. 

Discuss the overbite with the breeder - but keep in mind - jaw will change quite a bit. 

Talk to the breeder. Odds are if you are really anxious about this puppy not turning out the way you hoped or you are freaking out now about the overbite and so on - the sooner you return the pup, the better.


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## briannopper (Feb 5, 2016)

Finn's Fan said:


> Brian, a reputable breeder will always take back a puppy they bred, but if you elect to keep him (knowing full well that your vet bills will likely be sky high), a reputable breeder will often help with veterinary expenses in a puppy they bred or at the very least refund your purchase price. I think you should speak with your breeder and make a decision partially based on what they are willing to do for you and/or the pup. I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. Do you know other people who purchased dogs from this breeder? Anyone else have these types of health issues? I only ask because sometimes what appears to be a good breeder is actually a greeder who knows how to make it appear that they do all the necessary things, but in fact, they don't.


We are going to get a second opinion from another vet next week. We do know several other who have pups from this breeder and they do have a long line of prize show dogs. We have met several of them. She is also an officer and board member of several Golden Retriever associations. I don't doubt their credibility or willingness to do the right thing. It's just a tough situation. Thank you for your reply!


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## briannopper (Feb 5, 2016)

Thank you for your reply. We will get a second opinion. I sure hope you are correct and this turns out to be no big deal. This is our first dog so this is all new to us. I showed a video of the dog running to the dog and he wasn't too concerned about the "bunny hop".


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Take a deep breath and try to relax a little. 

9 week old puppies move in what ever way thier baby brain tells them too. Coordination is not the hallmark of young puppy movement. 

I can share that I have known other pet homes say almost the same thing you are about movement. After I had the chance to watch the puppy I have found they are confused about the gait. I am not sure how much you know but there is a big difference in the biomechanics of the trot and the gallop/canter. Young puppies tend to canter a lot and it is a three beat gait that requires the use of the hind legs in concert. This to an untrained eye can be misconstrued as bunny hopping, especially if the seed of a hip problem has been planted. That is when you go online to see what are symptoms and read bunny hopping, then the next time your puppy canters away, you are now programmed to see it as bunny hopping. I am attaching an image I hope will help. If you need more help this video is pretty decent. http://youtu.be/X7AkrsLd-AQ

I will also say there are some well meaning but inexperienced (about HD) vets and also some dishonest ones who will diagnose hip issues in very young puppies and the push for you to do an expensive surgery. This happened to someone I know. She was told the hips were terrible and surgery was needed before 10 months or the dog would be crippled. The hips were evaluated by another vet (a specialist who trains other vets on hip x-Rays) she said they were very nice hips. The dog never had surgery and is 4+ years old with no hip issue. 

I agree that 9 weeks is very young to have a diagnosed issue, I am even less certain of the accuracy since it was done by palpation. If you are still concerned, at 4 months you can X-Ray for a true evaluation and send them to OFA or as the other vet mentioned, PennHIP. OFA does offer priminary consultations once the dog is 4 months old.

Personally, I would wait on the bite issue too. Bites can and do change. The head is no where near its adult size and shape. The teeth are still baby teeth. They will start falling out shortly. If the adult teeth present the same issue especially after the skull has reached close to adult proportions, then I would go for a second opinion. 

I have known puppies with overbites. Some have self corrected into correct scissors bites some have stayed over. I know of none that required surgery, but that does not mean that every overbite will mature out the same way. 

On a personal note, how well do you know this vet? I would be concerned that this might be a "dooms day doctor" type vet. It seems like a lot of surgery talk thrown around at a 9 week old puppy visit. I would also be curious if they were already pushing you to schedule a neuter?


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

In my experience of buying pups, there can be a lot of anxiety in the first 16 weeks bc babies are fragile and there is stress for everyone in the transition. I don't know too much about the bite problem, but my vet once told me my pup was missing 6 teeth- I was FREAKED OUT until the senior partner gently reminded her that babies simply have less teeth. This puppy has baby teeth that will fall out and the bite might shift or change. Exactly what kind of surgery(?). Pulling one tooth? Do you see holes in the pups mouth with your own flashlight? 

On the hips, oh wow, I can't even imagine a vet saying a 9 week old puppy had hip dysplasia. The pup's soft joints are as yet an unwritten novel. Feed a large breed puppy food with a correct phosphurus/calcium balance for a while longer, then go to a moderate calorie and protein adult food. 

I am not trying to downplay or invalidate the vet's concerns, but try to breath. In the puppy class I taught last year a young vet thought our clients pup had a melanoma but it was a pigment splotch on the tongue.

One good idea to keep in mind is engaging the vet with a differential diagnosis so you hear all the options. I am an ocd worrier, so sometimes I only hear the worst case scenario. I have trained myself to ask for the possible outcomes/causes from worst to best.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Lower jaw grows more slowly than the upper jaw, so in general, the overbite a 9 week old pup has will likely be closer as the pup grows. I never evaluate a 9 week old pup's hips. They definitely run differently at that age...I usually get more concerned closer to 4-6 months of age if the rear legs do not move independently.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Ditto what everyone else said!! A vet can not tell you your 9 week old has hip dysplasia!! Ugh


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## briannopper (Feb 5, 2016)

Thank you all so much for your feedback. I had a long discussion with my breeder and she echos what all of you have been saying. She was so angry that a vet would even manipulate a 9 week old puppy's hips in such a way that would cause "popping", let alone diagnose him with HD and recommend that he be sedated and x-rayed. The vet did this in a back room without allowing us to be present...I likely would have stopped her had I seen that happen. The specialist said there was no popping nor did he see any reason to be concerned with his hips at this point. When I confronted the vet she simply said, "well, I thought I heard popping. This is good news..."

We have since received some recommendations for another vet from several breeders and trainers in the area and will NOT be going back to the first vet. 

We will certainly keep a close eye on these issues, but try not to freak out. Thanks again for all the feedback!


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Sounds like she tried to do the Ortolani method on your pup. To be done correctly and without damage to the pup, they are supposed to be sedated.

Glad you are changing vets!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

You have been a really awesome puppy owner, to gather information and think your away through fear. There are so many awesome vets who are invaluable friends to our dogs and godsends in times of trouble. There are also those who really do not like purebred dogs, and those who are , like in any profession, either green or burned out. I am a high anxiety personality about dog health, and the way I got sea legs was about ten incidents of doomsday dx followed by a fine ultimate prognosis. You can look way back on the forum and see how my Tally dog as a youngster was thought to have a cancer common in Bernese M Ds, but he turned out to have a random tick borne version of cat scratch fever curable by a few weeks of doxy antibiotic. I have panicked so many times for nothing- and I find when it actually is something dire, my head stays clear and calm. This experience will serve you in the future bc you will reserve judgment and ask more salient questions to the vet.


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## AngelCoopersMom (Oct 15, 2015)

Glad you are finding a new vet. Wow. The two vets we've seen with Tanner have both said you can't tell about hip dysplasia until much later. Good luck with the new vet...hope you like him/her much better!


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I would not worry about a 9 week old either.
If I saved it to my computer, there is a wonderfully educational set of rads going around of a lab puppy at I think 12 weeks. You would look at them and go...hmmmm- no wonder there's clicking! They are not set in stone at this age. Most of the joints aren't fully formed. Some of the bones don't meet. And some vets aren't as educated as they ought to be about little puppies. 
I'll go look for the pic now and try to post it. All bets are off on my skills at photos...

"C:\Users\Owner\Pictures\puppy hips.jpg"


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

So this is supposed to be a perfectly normal puppy. Think it is supposed to be 10-12 weeks old. A good visual to keep puppy from stair racing or jumping...and also to be able to see why the soft tissue could make popping sounds.
Not sure if this can be viewed or not...


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Another thought- if you happen to talk to first vet again, you may should tell that person that it's not suggested to manipulate the hips in that way on a young puppy who is not sedated and possibly save someone else the stress you've experienced as a result of her exam.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I think that puppy was a little younger (4-6 weeks), but still it does show how they are still developing when that young.. and why so many breeders do tend to go overboard about keeping those pups from really jumping or falling or forced exercise, etc...


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## Mom Fischer (Dec 3, 2014)

I am glad you got a second opinion on your baby puppy. We also saw am ad vet first time told us out puppy was over weight. The next vet was appalled and has been wonderful and we have had a few health issues.

Our Lucy used to bunny hop as a puppy and sometimes mess does once in awhile. She has had hip X-rays due to other things and they are great just her odd gait sometimes. Glad things turned out well.


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## GoldinPNW (Jun 23, 2015)

WOW. That is all I can say.

No it is not.. run from that vet don't walk. I agree with others that experience is so off.
I had a vet that diagnosed all puppies with heart murmurs. Yep we fell for it with the first pup, got a ultrasound immediately went into panic.

After finding an awesome vet back home we moved here a few years ago. Same issues. Misdiagnosis three times on my older dog. Then he tried to tell me that Benjamin had a heart murmur.... the kicker I heard him go into the two rooms next to me while we waited for something and tell them EXACTLY the same thing.

Be cautious of unethical money driven vets.

And we will spend any amount that we need to on our dogs and have pet insurance. So I am not shopping for a cheaper vet just a competent ethical one. I think I have found one now thankfully but you really need to educate yourself and be an advocate for your dogs.

I am finding that the private practices are better at least here. Also I now have a vet where the back room is NOT off limits he welcomes you back there.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Curious how this story ended up. Is there any hip or bite problem?


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## briannopper (Feb 5, 2016)

He does has an overbite and after consulting with another vet, 2 dental specialists, and 3 breeders, that all agreed that removing the lower baby teeth was the proper thing to do. We had them removed and they holes in the roof of his mouth healed quickly. We are now just hoping that the lower jaw will grow and reduce the overbite. If not, he may need more dental work when the adult teeth come in. :crossfing

The new vet wouldn't even check his hip because he is too young...which is in line with everthing I've read, and all of the comments above.


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