# Recall - help from experienced owners please!!



## dezymond (May 3, 2012)

I'm a big fan of this guy and as a behaviorist (for humans), his methods are valid and scientifically proven. You may have to use higher value reinforcers for your pup based on what you've posted. The prospect of playing with other dogs (or any other wild animals) is far more reinforcing for her than any amount of reinforcement she is getting for recall. I would also practice in the home at random times that calling her name will ALWAYS be reinforcing.


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## ChrisMc (Jul 3, 2021)

dezymond said:


> I'm a big fan of this guy and as a behaviorist (for humans), his methods are valid and scientifically proven. You may have to use higher value reinforcers for your pup based on what you've posted. The prospect of playing with other dogs (or any other wild animals) is far more reinforcing for her than any amount of reinforcement she is getting for recall. I would also practice in the home at random times that calling her name will ALWAYS be reinforcing.


Thank you! Any advice on what we could use as a reward/reinforcer? We use tug because that is her absolute favourite thing to do (other than play with dogs), and we use a rabbit skin squeaking tug even, and I can't think of anything else that would match that for her. We've tried all types of food which she isn't interested in at all and also numerous toys but tug is definitely the winner.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Too bad you live in a country that has outlawed the single most humane and effective training tool known to man to ensure a reliable recall in a dog. If you lived here in the US of A I'd say go buy yourself an ecollar and congrats to your dog, you are now allowed a life of free running and exercise like a dog should have without worry of getting in trouble or danger.


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## goldy1 (Aug 5, 2012)

@ChrisMc Don't feel you cannot begin agility fundamentals without a perfect recall. I started agility well before that. Only 1 pup is in the ring at a time. And if they run toward the fencing to visit the other waiting students, it's a great opportunity to practice that recall. Plus you will have the instructor there to help with that. You will not be the only one I assure you with this issue. Goldens are definitely on the high end of social but all of mine learned pretty quickly that when in the ring, it's not a free for all. It's more like school.


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## ChrisMc (Jul 3, 2021)

goldy1 said:


> @ChrisMc Don't feel you cannot begin agility fundamentals without a perfect recall. I started agility well before that. Only 1 pup is in the ring at a time. And if they run toward the fencing to visit the other waiting students, it's a great opportunity to practice that recall. Plus you will have the instructor there to help with that. You will not be the only one I assure you with this issue. Goldens are definitely on the high end of social but all of mine learned pretty quickly that when in the ring, it's not a free for all. It's more like school.


That's so helpful to know thank you very much!! I'll definitely look into giving the fundamentals a go sooner then!


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## dezymond (May 3, 2012)

ChrisMc said:


> Thank you! Any advice on what we could use as a reward/reinforcer? We use tug because that is her absolute favourite thing to do (other than play with dogs), and we use a rabbit skin squeaking tug even, and I can't think of anything else that would match that for her. We've tried all types of food which she isn't interested in at all and also numerous toys but tug is definitely the winner.


Maverick was and still is highly highly HIGHLY food motivated, so I always used treats or his kibble for lighter training sessions. 

Your pup seems to love play so I think maybe increasing the level of play will be rewarding for her. Maybe look into getting a training specific toy and only allow access to that toy during recall training.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

ChrisMc said:


> Our trainer says she is doing absolutely fine for her age, and she trains guide dog puppies so i do trust her opinion. And of course I realise she is young BUT when I have posted in here about recall before people have suggested it only takes a few months of consistency and their puppies had a reliable recall. Yet ours just is not improving if dogs are around and we have been doing this for 6+ months (although very happy her recall has come on so well when no dogs are around).


OK, I'm going to tell you a secret.  Most people who do not have recall issues and say that it's only a few months of consistency before their puppies have a reliable recall.... are people whose pups have never experienced FREEDOM and/or have not learned the very exciting fact that if they are off leash and running - the owner can't do a thing to stop them so they might as well play keep away and do what they want for as long as possible until they are caught.

Because your girlie has been off leash and learned the joy of running up to other dogs or running for the hills - she will need to be kept on leash or you need to have running boots on and very exciting treat-rewards to reinforce not the recall - but your girlie letting you catch her. It may take 2-3 years before your girlie has settled down and by then she will also have learned that it is REWARDING to be caught by you, so she will let you catch her all the sooner.

You say she's not motivated by treats - so of course that means you can't bribe her to stay with you. But very least you can reward her when she lets you catch her. Never correct her when you catch her or show anger/frustration, because it will reinforce the keep away game.

Other thing is do not let her loose if there's any other people/dogs around. Help her be successful - not necessarily just recalls, but being aware of you when she's in a big field somewhere. 

Do not compare her to other people's dogs. Just work with what you have and trust that it will come. It just may take a couple years. And by then you won't remember a time when she was ever bad.

My guys are off leash generally if I take them somewhere so it's just me and then and big fields to run around in.... but they have never learned the keep away game. I started off leash stuff with them right from the start as babies + there's always been an obedient older dog who helps train pups to stay close and listen, etc... when off leash with a big field ahead of them.


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## Mosaic (Oct 22, 2020)

I really like absolute dogs who use concept based/games training. So they Would say if you play games that promote proximity and disengagement from the environment = you’ll already have done most of the work needed for good recall. Their “sexier than a squirrel” course is good value: The World Wide Sexier Than A Squirrel Challenge

er also… my understanding is many trainers feel a dog needs two years of practice to achieve very solid recall. So it sounds like you’re doing v well!


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