# Dahlia's Goldens and Gideon Yoder



## Oelia (Dec 30, 2017)

Hi everyone! I'm new here and my family and I have been looking into quality Golden Retriever breeders in the Eastern PA/NJ area recently. We've got a few good ones in mind already, but we have a family friend who just got a puppy from Dahlia's Goldens in Honey Brook, PA. Has anyone here heard anything about them? The owner, Gideon Yoder, has all of his female's clearances posted right on his website, and he uses a sire from Proud Foot Creams, an English Cream breeder, which also appears to be a strong breeder, but I just want to be sure. We got our last Golden Retriever from a lady who turned out to be falsifying her clearances, so having a quality breeder is of the upmost importance. 

Thanks!!


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

For their litter currently listed, the dam lacks a hip certification and has a deficient practitioner heart clearance.
https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1732276


The sire, Sherlock, has no certifications listed on OFA. Pedigree: Sleepysong Sherlock


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## phish007 (Dec 30, 2017)

I just had a wonderful talk with the woman who runs KALM SEAS GOLDENS (NJ), who has a good rep on the forums here. If someone will be home most of the time you should call her for a golden.


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## Oelia (Dec 30, 2017)

thank you so much for your quick reply!! Gideon has the certs for both the dam and the sire all posted on his website (https://dahliasgoldens.wordpress.com/about/). Should these certifications be listed on the OFA to be considered legitimate?? Sorry we're a bit new to researching some of this stuff!!


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

The sire does not have health certifications that follow the GRCA code of ethics. His eye exam was last done in Serbia more than 5 years ago but it should be done annually. He was only 1 year old when his Serbian hip and elbow exam was done. There is no way for you to verify any of their claims since they're not posted to a database like OFA. Both should be over 2 years old before hips and elbows are xrayed for evaluation. 

Besides having an out of date eye exam, the dam's parents were both bred underage. Her mother was 11 months old when she whelped the litter Dahlia is from and the sire was 12 months. Dahlias has whelped 3 litters in a row according to their website. There's one listed in December 2016, May 2017 and November 2017. If they plan to breed her again soon apparently she's just a puppy machine.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

They show a Pennhip clearance on the page you linked for Dahlia's hips- anything under .30 is considered to be a safe number- .40 and .41 are basically 40 and 41% out of joint, that the femoral head is displaced from the acetabulum....that said she was over 2 YO when the test was done. The cardiac isn't adequate- it is just a pet vet and not a cardiologist. 
If Sherlock's AKC # in correct, he has no clearances on OFA and was already pointed out- he was far too young when they did the one in the foreign country.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Prism Goldens said:


> They show a Pennhip clearance on the page you linked for Dahlia's hips- anything under .30 is considered to be a safe number- .40 and .41 are basically 40 and 41% out of joint, that the femoral head is displaced from the acetabulum....that said she was over 2 YO when the test was done. The cardiac isn't adequate- it is just a pet vet and not a cardiologist.
> If Sherlock's AKC # in correct, he has no clearances on OFA and was already pointed out- he was far too young when they did the one in the foreign country.


Thanks for clarifying this, I was wondering. I also noticed that Sherlock's dam has mild hip dysplasia and given that neither of Dahlia's parents have hip clearances and her uncle has hip dysplasia I can't believe they did this. There are so many holes in her pedigree clearances I couldn't imagine buying one of these puppies.

To the OP, if you get one of these puppies, I hope you invest in pet insurance. Get it the day you bring the puppy home.


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## Oelia (Dec 30, 2017)

Thank you all so much for all your helpful input!! We're still trying to get the hang of checking these things out, so again all of this is very much appreciated. We did not end up contacting this breeder and are likely going to focus on finding a different breeder who will be having litters in the spring or summer. 

Thank you all again!


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

Best wishes on finding a great pup. You won't regret waiting for a well bred puppy from a reputable breeder.


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## Jnoel21 (Sep 20, 2017)

Sue is wonderful. But she does require that someone be home with the dog most of the day, at least while it is a puppy.


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## Hannahcam (Mar 18, 2019)

I stumbled across this thread because I have a golden from this farm, a sister of Dahlia from a later litter, and searched to see if the Yoders were raising any new puppies. we're happy with our Golden, she's about to turn 2 and so far no health issues. 

maybe I'm posting to justify going through a no name breeder, but I just want to point out the Yoders are amish and they are not going to go online to defend themselves. we researched to confirm this was not a mill, and because we're local we visited our puppy a few times. the farm the dogs are raised in is nice so I felt comfortable with the breeder. If he is unreputable then someone has investigated better than I could. just a few thoughts... 

1. I have a dog from the same parents as Dahlia I'm confused why someone says they didn't have clearances, it's posted on the Kadi's website. 
2. dahlia and the sire were whelped in 2013 according to their certs and their first puppy post is 2016 so how did you decide to post that they bred at 1yo
3. the website shows the sire eye check in 2015 in honeybrook, more recently than "at 1years old in another country". 

you can't follow the breeder on instagram or facebook so I guess its not reputable, but presenting half truths is tantamount to lying too.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Hannahcam said:


> I stumbled across this thread because I have a golden from this farm, a sister of Dahlia from a later litter, and searched to see if the Yoders were raising any new puppies. we're happy with our Golden, she's about to turn 2 and so far no health issues.
> 
> maybe I'm posting to justify going through a no name breeder, but I just want to point out the Yoders are amish and they are not going to go online to defend themselves. we researched to confirm this was not a mill, and because we're local we visited our puppy a few times. the farm the dogs are raised in is nice so I felt comfortable with the breeder. If he is unreputable then someone has investigated better than I could. just a few thoughts...
> 
> ...


Perhaps you should verify what was written. Dahlias dam Kadi was born 07/2012, Chess was born 06/2012 and Dahlia was born 06/2013. They were bred approximately 2 months prior to Dahlia's birth at 10ish months of age. Both dogs (Chess and Kadi) have deficient cardiac exams and PennHip evaluation done prior to 24 months. Review the GRCA code of ethics.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

IF anyone posted here, it is not a half truth or a falsehood..we're all very careful to tell only truths.... to what I posted back then, I would add this:
https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1732276 (Dahlia) has more than 3 year out of date eyes (today), heart is still inadequate, and 
Dahlia's sire and dam were both around a year old when she was whelped (and she has had at least 3 litters in a row- I did not go look and see how many more she's been made to produce since this thread began because I hate going through facebook fake breeding program sites) and that age of parents is easily verified on OFA (see link above)
Sherlock STILL hasn't got the first valid clearance for a breeding animal- he has no OFA page at all. 

I believe you stated Dahlia's sire and dam are the parents of your dog...
Here they are: https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?appnum=1679926 (Teddys Dog Of Chester) and https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?appnum=1703428 (Goldheart Kadi) Kadi was born 7-16-12- Dahlia was born 6-14-13. Kadi was about 9 mo old when she was bred to Teddy. 
Teddy's DOB is 6-7-12- he was about 10 mo old when they were bred. This is like breeding human 10YO kids imo, they were both still puppies themselves.
Regardless, Kadi has an inferior cardiac clearance, way out of date eyes, and no hips are on OFA though they do post on the site a PH done at 24 months (even though she'd already had 2 litters at least- what'd they do if she'd failed?). None of her grandparents have clearances and her sire and dam are lacking clearances as well.
Teddy- he's another story altogether, he makes her look good and she's not a good breeding gamble.. he has a full sibling who is dysplastic, his dam has no clearances, his sire has only an inadequate cardiac clearance, there are multiple half sibs on the sire side w failed hips/elbows, and only his paternal side have any clearances grand-parent wise. I'll let their lack of elbows slide, even though they were done 2 years after it was part of the code of ethics to do them.. maybe w that lack of involvement in the breed they didn't know. 

SHERLOCK and Dahlia had a litter- Sherlock had Serbian B hips and 0 elbows at less than 1 year old. Those are not "clearances" and they (as prelims) are no longer on k9data because it is misleading to people who do not understand what they are reading. And to post on their own site that he has "Good" hips is a lie. Not even a half lie. Things have meaning- Good means something. It means a final rating. So they are the ones lying. 
You can justify your purchase all you want, it is your money to spend after all! but don't try to paint them as anywhere near good breeders.. they lack on every front in my very experienced and involved in the breed opinion.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

And I am glad you love your dog- but if you love Goldens, support a breeder who is following the Code for the future of the breed. And I spent the 20 minutes+ it took to do that research well for you- so you know your dog's holes in health pedigree. That's why any of us do this. The Yoders of the world are not our competition, and no one here would love anything more than to find the Yoders of the world doing a FABulous job... that day just never seems to come.


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## Hannahcam (Mar 18, 2019)

Hi I didn't realize you were talking about Kadi and Chess's first litter. Thanks to all of you who did your research, I tried reading the documents best I could and was confused more than anything else how we came to different conclusions. I do agree that the code of ethics were violated, I certainly hope it was unintentional and don't support those practices. If it's any consolation when we met Kadi and Chess they seemed really happy and have a lot of yard to play.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

BTW- if you wonder how I know about the 'B' Serbian clearance on the hips done young, just fyi, you can go to k9data and look @ change history and the dates things got input and removed, etc.

The CoE is still being violated, and it is truly a minimum. Not the best of everything done- just a bare minimum. Anyone breeding should at least do this bare minimum. That you got confused by the info is not at all unusual, dog clearances and ethical breeding is in itself a foreign language to most lay people. The service this forum does for puppy people, in translating what is out there, is invaluable to the public and while it is unfortunate, many websites and many breeders do not tell the honest truth. Like the site of the stud dog mentioned above - calling his hips 'good' is not the truth. 
Hang around here! Ask anything you want, someone will help you.


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## mygoldenz (Nov 9, 2021)

Has anyone else had any updated experiences with Dahlia's Goldens? Have their certs been updated? 
Thanks


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I'm not going to waste a lot of my AM coffee time doing all their dogs- it appears they have just had a litter from Pansy- who had a PH at 11 months of age and has no elbow cert, no correct cardiac cert and really, the only thing she has that's per Code of Ethics is her eye exam. 
That's just where they lack from a health standpoint, which oddly they emphasize as 'true health'... 
From a place of breed knowledge, there appears to be nothing going there. The site claims AKC Ch pedigrees but they had nothing to do with any their dogs have in their pedigrees- Of the 5 dogs whose pedigrees are posted on their site, so, 15 individuals in 5- 3 gen pedigrees, so a total of 75 individuals, there are exactly ONE AKC Ch back in a 3rd gen. Like so much published by non-involved puppy farms, this too is lacking the ring of truth. 
Lastly, for my thoughts today on this breeder, to charge $3700 for a puppy from one of their health clearance lacking, title lacking and breeder knowledge lacking litters? This is just wrong. You can get a TRUE AKC CH pedigree with generations of full clearances for that amount.


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## mygoldenz (Nov 9, 2021)

Prism Goldens said:


> I'm not going to waste a lot of my AM coffee time doing all their dogs- it appears they have just had a litter from Pansy- who had a PH at 11 months of age and has no elbow cert, no correct cardiac cert and really, the only thing she has that's per Code of Ethics is her eye exam.
> That's just where they lack from a health standpoint, which oddly they emphasize as 'true health'...
> From a place of breed knowledge, there appears to be nothing going there. The site claims AKC Ch pedigrees but they had nothing to do with any their dogs have in their pedigrees- Of the 5 dogs whose pedigrees are posted on their site, so, 15 individuals in 5- 3 gen pedigrees, so a total of 75 individuals, there are exactly ONE AKC Ch back in a 3rd gen. Like so much published by non-involved puppy farms, this too is lacking the ring of truth.
> Lastly, for my thoughts today on this breeder, to charge $3700 for a puppy from one of their health clearance lacking, title lacking and breeder knowledge lacking litters? This is just wrong. You can get a TRUE AKC CH pedigree with generations of full clearances for that amount.


Thanks for taking a look and for your comments!


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