# Adopted a rescued dog: dominance question



## dborgers (Dec 7, 2011)

Having adopted several rescues, one thing that was suggested (and worked) was getting them on 'neutral ground' - like in a car - especially when they meet for the first time. It still isn't too late. Spend time with the two of them in your car going to do something fun, like get a treat. You're alpha then. Dogs are pack animals, so the likelihood of one or another asserting dominance is a given. 

Our current golden, Andy, has an alpha, Katie, who weighs 12 lbs. He doesn't care LOL


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

Jenny gets car sick and hates going in the car (another issue we'll have to work on).

The problem doesn't seem to be that Jenny doesn't see us as alpha... It's that she seems to want to "dominate" our other dog, and we wonder if that's ok?


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

I think it's best you let them work out their pecking order between themselves. It may be difficult to see your "first dog" start letting the "new dog" be the boss, but sometimes that's just how it works out. As long as fights aren't breaking out, and Mia is fine to let Jenny be top dog, then I think you guys are lucky! 

Congrats on your new addition!!!


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

missmarstar said:


> I think it's best you let them work out their pecking order between themselves. It may be difficult to see your "first dog" start letting the "new dog" be the boss, but sometimes that's just how it works out. As long as fights aren't breaking out, and Mia is fine to let Jenny be top dog, then I think you guys are lucky!
> 
> Congrats on your new addition!!!


Yes, you're right, I find it difficult to see that happening, as Mia looks so sad... she's our first baby and I don't like seeing her sad... maybe we're just humanizing her... And it's still very early as it hasn't been a week yet...


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

And would only allowing Mia up on the bed, for a week or so, only create issues if Jenny is trying to "dominate"? Or should we try that?


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## aerolor (May 27, 2011)

shortcake23 said:


> And would only allowing Mia up on the bed, for a week or so, only create issues if Jenny is trying to "dominate"? Or should we try that?


Personally, I don't think I would allow either of them onto the bed at the moment, but if you do want to allow it I think it should be both on the bed or none. Hope you've got a big bed


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Agree*

I think it is just wonderful you are giving a sweet Golden Girl a home! Bless YOu!
I agree with aerolor, I would not let either of them on the bed right now.

Dborgers is right-dogs set their own pecking order, but I would introduce them on neutral territory.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I wouldn't try to fit this into a dominant/submissive model. A lot of what we hear about that in pop culture is based on some wolf studies from the seventies and has since been shown to be inaccurate, particularly when applied to domesticated dogs. 

Jenny sounds insecure to me, not dominant. Work on confidence building with her, and give Mia some alone time and some special training time of her own. There's a good chance that Mia will leap at the opportunity to work with you extra hard, so you might get extra reliability or more advanced obedience out of her if you spend some time working on it.

And Jenny just needs some time to settle in. I really wouldn't worry about trying to enforce some kind of pack hierarchy. They'll work out little patterns between each other in terms of how they share the water bowl, who sleeps where, etc. If you try to enforce a human version of who's in charge, you'll probably do more harm than good.

Keep an eye on them when they interact over resources, and the more value the resource has, the more watchful you should be. If Jenny is insecure, she may get snarky over a bone if Mia comes near it, or she may try to take both bones if she and Mia each have one. Try to keep those situations from happening, and when you see good sharing, praise it and add something. If both dogs each take a treat peacefully and let the other eat, praise them and give them both another.

It sounds like they're on a good track with Mia being very secure and letting Jenny have what she needs to feel comfortable. Try not to anthropomorphize Mia's body language or face at those moments. She may be showing appeasement (i.e., telling Jenny "it's OK, I'm not a threat) not sadness. Is she looking away from Jenny and lowering her head, all with slow, deliberate movements? That's appeasement. In the situations you describe, Mia sounds like a well-socialized, secure dog who's good at setting Jenny at ease, not like a submissive, sad pup.


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

I figure Jenny isn't sure of her future, so to speak. I suspect the first part of her life was not so great. And probably after her rescue she was held at some place til the foster mom took her and then she was there for 6 week,s probably just getting around to being adjustedto tht home/dogs and suddenly she was moved again.

I think in time she will figure out she is where she will be th rest of her life. When we adopted Honey she was a year old. The rescue ha taken her from the county poung an hour before she was to be gassed. She was "held" at their tiny place for a few weeks while being spayed, vax, etc, and then fostered right behind us. Linda fosters as many as a dozen dogs at a time. It was only a couple of years later we learned Honey had been there for about 2 weeks.

We had 3 goldens and no intention of getting a forth,but was "conned" into it.
At first Honey was not playful and and a little stand-offish. But you could tell she wanted attention. I don't know if it was becuae the other 3 were pushing their way in or what. Then a month after we got her we found she was heartworm positive and had to have her treatedand she spent 6 weeks in thewire crate. I know that was so hard on her watching the others play, etc. However, one, My preious Hunter often laid by the crate keeping her compnay.

When she was declared heartowmr free and set free, she was no longer shy, but ran and played with the other dogs. Funny thing, with 4 of them not one tried to be the"boss". When Hunter was killed by ProHeart6 a few months later, his littermate sister went into a "funk" and it took HOney to get her out of it. They were best buds and always together. Neither ever tried to boss the other around.

I think once Jenny really figures out she is there to stay, gets totally use to her new surroundsings and to Mia, things will be just fine. and even if Jenny wants to be the "boss", it could be Mia would like it tha way.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

How are things going now?


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

*Non-update... lol!*



tippykayak said:


> How are things going now?


Sorry, didn't see your message.

Gabby (prev. Jenny) and Mia are doing okay... no change really with this issue. The rescue we adopted Gabby from has a professional dog trainer, who volunteers her time with them, so tomorrow night my hubby and I will be chatting with her through Skype (as we're 5-6 hours away). We've sent her the list of concerns/questions, so she's prepared. Hoping there will be solutions we can work with.

Thanks for asking


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

*Ups and downs...*

Here's an update on Gabby (prev. Jenny) and dominance issues... 

We've talked through Skype to a Professional Dog Trainer who volunteers for the same rescue we volunteer for and got Gabby through, and we've also sent her a video (I happened to be recording them playing tug-of-war) of one of the incidents, on *Saturday*, where Gabby growled at Mia, even showing teeth and tail straight out, and the trainer confirmed that indeed Gabby is showing her dominance.

We had some more growling incidents last night (*Sunday*), with Gabby... 

My hubby and I were playing with the girls, each girl with one of us and each a rope toy. Then Gabby was on one bed and Mia on the floor in front of it. The toy ropes were both on the floor in between the girls. I was petting Gabby and Mark was petting Mia. 

I think that Mia went to grab one of the rope toys (but DH thinks she didn't even do that) and then Gabby growled a loud "throaty" aggressive sounding growl, but NO teeth showing. We heard Mia yelp and bark. It all happened so fast... but we don't think there was any biting. We couldn't see Gabby's tail position, as she was lying down... I said "NO Gabby!" and she stopped, but then Gabby got up and Mia did too. *(first growl)*
 
After a few seconds Gabby growled again and I did the "bite" thing (with two fingers, as the trainer suggested) on her side and said "NO!". She stopped. *(2nd growl)*

Then Gabby went and laid down on the other bed (the striped one in the pic); Mia was still close by and Gabby growled again. Once again I said "NO!" and I got up and turned away from her. *(3rd growl)*

After a bit, Mia was laying down on the floor in front of the first bed with her back to it, and Gabby went and laid down on it. Then hubby called Mia over to the other bed (which is right beside the other one), and pet Mia, and Gabby went on the other bed partially to get attention too. Then she stayed with her butt on that bed and slept (see pic).


-> We don't know if Gabby will ever be a dog that could play with Mia (like play-wrestle or tug - without issues - or due to her past, no)? 

The whole point of getting another dog was to have a companion and playmate for Mia... Not just for the sake of having a 2nd dog... And we're worried something might happen while we are away... 

We also find this has changed Mia since Gabby has been here and we don't like that... She seems more "quiet", reserved and uninterested in things... She's just not herself! 

-> Are we in way over our heads or is this something we're able to work with and fix?? :uhoh:

Feeling a little overwhelmed at times...


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Shortcake*

Shortcake

What has the trainer said?
I take it there has been no biting??
Sounds like Gabby is just more the dominant one over Mia.
They are both fixed right?


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Shortcake*

SHORTCAKE

See your update?
Have you asked the dog trainer what she thought?

Tucker and Tonka sometimes growl at one another, too.


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

Karen519 said:


> What has the trainer said?


We just emailed her, so we don't know yet.



Karen519 said:


> I take it there has been no biting??


Luckily not as far as we saw... :crossfing



Karen519 said:


> Sounds like Gabby is just more the dominant one over Mia.


Yes, Mia is VERY submissive.



Karen519 said:


> They are both fixed right?


Yes, they are both spayed. We got Mia spayed after her first heat (I think she was around 1 yr old). 
Gabby was spayed when she came into the rescue (in March). She was used in a puppy mill prior to that, and might have had 2-3 litters (we know she's had some for sure).


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

Karen519 said:


> SHORTCAKE
> 
> See your update?
> Have you asked the dog trainer what she thought?
> ...


Just replied, thanks


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Shortcake*

Shortcake

Let us know what trainer says.
What do you mean when you say Mia is acting like herself?


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

Karen519 said:


> Let us know what trainer says.


Will do.



Karen519 said:


> What do you mean when you say Mia is acting like herself?


Mia is *NOT* acting like herself since Gabby came along... even with us... she seems more reserved and not her happy and "blubbly" self. 

And she's been to the vet a few times since (tooth fracture ~ I posted about that on here), and it's not a health issue...

When Mia has been around other dogs, since Gabby came along, her "old" self comes out and we can see she's totally happy to be around other dogs that play with her.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

If this is occurring on a regular basis, and you are not happy with the changes it is producing in Mia, it just may not be a good match between the dogs. Mia is your first priority, it would be unfair to keep a new dog that makes her life less enjoyable. You have had Gabbie long enough to see if they are going to settle in and start to develop a good relationship, from what you have posted I don't see that happening. 

When you add a new dog to your house, you have to let the resident dog choose them. Sometimes the dogs just are not good together, and personally I would not prolong the situation. Give yourself permission to make the decision, you are not failng, it is a learning experience.

Just my opinion.


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

mylissyk said:


> If this is occurring on a regular basis, and you are not happy with the changes it is producing in Mia, it just may not be a good match between the dogs. Mia is your first priority, it would be unfair to keep a new dog that makes her life less enjoyable. You have had Gabbie long enough to see if they are going to settle in and start to develop a good relationship, from what you have posted I don't see that happening.
> 
> When you add a new dog to your house, you have to let the resident dog choose them. Sometimes the dogs just are not good together, and personally I would not prolong the situation. Give yourself permission to make the decision, you are not failng, it is a learning experience.
> 
> Just my opinion.


It happens pretty regularly (at least once a week), but this weekend it happened on both days.

Gabby has been with us for 6 weeks yesterday.

That's what my hubby and I think too (that it's not a good match), but we're unsure about if we've given it enough time, and feel bad and guilty if we just "give up" on Gabby.... And also I volunteer for this rescue, so I don't want to be on bad terms with them.... 

But Mia is definitely our priority and we hate how things are and worry that it could escalate, or even if it doesn't, never get better. And also what about when we're not home? What if Mia tries to play with Gabby and she bites her?


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Shortcake*

Shortcake

I do agree Mia has to be the first priority and maybe someone else can foster Gabby.


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## GoldenMum (Mar 15, 2010)

shortcake23 said:


> It happens pretty regularly (at least once a week), but this weekend it happened on both days.
> 
> Gabby has been with us for 6 weeks yesterday.
> 
> ...


I would return Gabby, she doesn't sound like a good fit. Both dogs deserve a loving home, without the stress of continued grumbling. 

I rehomed Hobbes, after 2 years of trying to make it work. Everyone, including Hobbes is much happier.

I would guess a neutered male might be a better fit, as usually males submit to females.

I know there is a world of difference in how Calvin gets along with his new sis Skyler.


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## akgolden (Jun 18, 2011)

We observed some of the same things you are going through with both our lab who we got first and our golden. 


The first we came up against was my chocolate lab and my brothers dog at my parents house who was a rescue from the local shelter. We are still unsure of his mix but both dogs are fixed. I remember being nervous at first seeing them interact cause my brothers dog would growl or be very dominate over my lab. He never bit but would show teeth and get her to roll over on her back. We stopped it a few times but eventually just let them work out their own pecking order. We kept the visits up and within a month they were both on the same page and understanding and they have gotten along great ever since. He will still occasionally want to show he is still king **** but never once has he made contact, it's just I am king hear me roar kinda thing and then they go on their merry way playing. 

For example.. this is my lab Kona and my brothers dog Scooby at my house. After a while my lab just learned to ignore his "alpha male" growls......








They play great together, never once has there been a scuffle, just the occasional growl to let them all know he is still the boss and then they go back to romping around.



So fast forward to later and we get our Golden Bailey. I was positive my lab was going to be the dominate one in this relationship. My lab was older, the house was her kingdom and we were introducing a new puppy to the mix. 

They never got to the point of growling at each other but we noticed after some time went by that Bailey our Golden was showing the alpha traits. She would go walk over and take a bone that Kona would be chewing on or if I was scratching my lab she would come force her self between us. Usually with the toy she would just grab the next nearest bone and keep chewing. When my golden forced her self between me and my lab I would make the golden scoot back with the "back" command and then once she listened and was taking my commands I would scratch them both and all was good. 


The sitting on the other dog that you mentioned is what still puzzles me. I don't get it but my golden does it to my lab, my brothers dog scooby and my parents golden also. I don't know what it means, none of the dogs seem to care but it's the oddest thing I have ever seen. Usually my lab will not even be phased by it and keep chewing on her toy. If she wants to get up she just stands up and my golden falls over and life is good.


Example... I just don't get it..











I think you should just keep an eye on them both when together and let them work out their own order. It worked well with my dogs and my parents dogs and have not had any issues whatsoever once they established who falls where in rank.



Here is a vid of all them playing, you can still kind of see Scooby want to play alpha here and there but never once has he actually bitten or hurt any of the dogs.






Anyways sorry for the long post. Hope you find what works best for ya


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Shortcake, the rescue wants the best possible outcome for every dog they place, so they know that not all initial placements are going to be the perfect match. If you and your husband are still not comfortable with Gabby's behavior and Mia's reaction after six weeks, it isn't throwing in the towel or failing Gabby, it's acknowledging that these two aren't meant to be. I know that often it's hard to find the right female/female match, so perhaps a male might be the better choice for a compaion for Mia. Don't feel bad.....it's all about finding each dog their ideal forever home.


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

Karen519 said:


> I do agree Mia has to be the first priority and maybe someone else can foster Gabby.


We're not fostering Gabby, we adopted her...

We should have just stuck to our original plan, which was to only adopt if we fostered the dog and they got along... but we didn't foster Gabby, someone else did...


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

*Video of Saturday's incident*

*akgolden,* that's another thing though, Gabby won't even play with Mia, other than the occasional tug-of-war, and ONLY if initiated by Gabby. If Mia tries to inititiate, Gabby growls. 

Mia's attempted on multiple times to try and initiate "play-wrestle" and Gabby growls... Mia stops right away.

This is the video of the incident on *Saturday* that I showed the trainer:
https://picasaweb.google.com/117192...&authkey=Gv1sRgCMP85637v5LZNQ&feat=directlink
(Gabby is the redder one)
The first growl happens around 1 min 30 secs. I'm the one recording it.

At the time we weren't sure if it was a normal play growl, so we didn't do anything, but after showing the video to the trainer, she said it was an aggressive growl as Gabby had her tail straight out and showed teeth. And apparently looked at me for direction...

My hubby and I have fostered twice and babysat friends' dogs (we're by no means pros though), but we've never had a dominant one... so this is all new to us...


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## akgolden (Jun 18, 2011)

shortcake23 said:


> *akgolden,* that's another thing though, Gabby won't even play with Mia, other than the occasional tug-of-war, and ONLY if initiated by Gabby. If Mia tries to inititiate, Gabby growls.
> 
> Mia's attempted on multiple times to try and initiate "play-wrestle" and Gabby growls... Mia stops right away.
> 
> ...


Maybe I missed it but I didn't see any issues at all in that video. My pups growl and bark all the time when playing tug of war...???


Both tails were wagging the entire video, looked like they were doing ok.



edit.

Ok I did see the tail stop and looked a little confused for a second. How much interaction has Mia had with other dogs before you brought Gabby home. I think Mia is just a little unsure but nothing to be to worried about. I would just respond in an energetic and positive voice/tone telling her to get the rope or good girl. Maybe get involved and grab the middle of the rope so they both see you playing and everyone is involved.

I think activities where the two dogs and you are involved would be the best approach. Let them know you are the pack leader and the one in charge and let them both see that they have to listen to you. Work on things where they both have to perform in order to get the reward. Grab a tennis ball or a favorite toy and make them both sit and lay down in front of you before rewarding them with the toys??


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

akgolden said:


> How much interaction has Mia had with other dogs before you brought Gabby home. I think Mia is just a little unsure but nothing to be to worried about.


Mia has had a LOT of interaction with other dogs before we brought Gabby home. We've socialized her since she was a pup, brought her to puppy and intermediate class at Petsmart (in her first year), used to go to the dog park quite often (before Gabby came along) and have many play dates with friends' dogs... oh, and we've fostered the two dogs too.



akgolden said:


> Maybe get involved and grab the middle of the rope so they both see you playing and everyone is involved.
> 
> I think activities where the two dogs and you are involved would be the best approach. Let them know you are the pack leader and the one in charge and let them both see that they have to listen to you. Work on things where they both have to perform in order to get the reward. Grab a tennis ball or a favorite toy and make them both sit and lay down in front of you before rewarding them with the toys??


We do that too. Hasn't seemed to help at all... sometimes it just gets them even more excited and then Gabby growls and steals the toy away and turns around with it.

AFTER that video stopped, Gabby did just that... she growled again, took the toy away to one of the beds and turned her back to us.


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## akgolden (Jun 18, 2011)

shortcake23 said:


> Mia has had a LOT of interaction with other dogs before we brought Gabby home. We've socialized her since she was a pup, brought her to puppy and intermediate class at Petsmart (in her first year), used to go to the dog park quite often (before Gabby came along) and have many play dates with friends' dogs... oh, and we've fostered the two dogs too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Sorry to hear. Sounds like they just might not see eye to eye then 


Did the trainer have any advice?? I know you said the trainer saw the video but might have missed what the next step with the trainer was.


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

akgolden said:


> Did the trainer have any advice?? I know you said the trainer saw the video but might have missed what the next step with the trainer was.


Haven't heard back yet for yesterday's incident, but for Saturday's incident (the video), she said to let them play tug, but as soon as we see Gabby's tail go up in the air, to correct her. If she stops growling, allow the play - but every time her tail stops agging to correct her. 

"_The wagging of the tail = happy. The straight tail = possession/dominance. Mia was submitting to Gabby nicely - she was making beautiful eye contact while Gabby was looking away maintaining Alpha Status at this particular time. __Dogs will growl while they have fun with each other. You want to look for the showing of the teeth and the straight tail. Then you know the play has gone beyond a friendly game. Rather than taking the toy away - correct the play by going in as the ALPHA to control the situation by correcting the unwanted behaviour with an "ah ah" and if that doesn't work a "bite in the ribs."_ "


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## akgolden (Jun 18, 2011)

Well I hope you can get it sorted out, they both look like great dogs, just have to get them to play together 

Keep us updated


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

shortcake23 said:


> It happens pretty regularly (at least once a week), but this weekend it happened on both days.
> 
> Gabby has been with us for 6 weeks yesterday.
> 
> ...


You have given it more than enough time to be able to see if they will get along. Your rescue group should know dogs don't always match, if they give you a problem about needing to return her they are not realistic.


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## canine_mommy (Dec 27, 2010)

Sorry to hear it's so difficult, I hope you are able to make it work... I may be missing it in the video. The interaction looked normal and I see Gabby (darker one) wagging her tail, in fact...


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

Finn's Fan said:


> Shortcake, the rescue wants the best possible outcome for every dog they place, so they know that not all initial placements are going to be the perfect match. If you and your husband are still not comfortable with Gabby's behavior and Mia's reaction after six weeks, it isn't throwing in the towel or failing Gabby, it's acknowledging that these two aren't meant to be. I know that often it's hard to find the right female/female match, so perhaps a male might be the better choice for a compaion for Mia. Don't feel bad.....it's all about finding each dog their ideal forever home.


It just feels wrong, in a way, since we've also fostered for them... and I wouldn't want us to be in bad terms with them... 
And it seems like they're really trying to help us to make this work...


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

*Another growling incident last night...*

Another growling incident last night... One of the toys (different toys than the other day & not tug toys) Gabby had been playing with earlier was in front of the bed Gabby was laying down on. Mia just walked by, not even paying attention to the toy... She was looking at my hubby who was sitting on the couch. Gabby growled showing teeth as Mia walked by. DH told Gabby "no" and she stopped, got up and walked away from us. After a bit Gabby went and laid back down on one of the beds. Mia seemed quite unsure and almost fearful to walk by Gabby or go lay down on the other bed (the two beds are right next to each other). After about half an hour she did go lay down on it... No growling. 

Basically what the trainer said is that Gabby is trying to be the alpha and we have to make sure she knows WE are the alphas. But my hubby and I don’t feel we have *super* strong leader personalities, so this is difficult for us. And we wonder if this is always going to be an ongoing “battle”? I know you have to be consistent and the training always continues, and we're fine with that and putting in the time, but we don’t want it to be a constant tiring battle where Gabby keeps trying to be the alpha over us… Why would this be happening so frequently now? Seems it's gotten worse the past week or so...

And are we humanizing Mia in thinking she's sad? I truly think she's not being her old bubbly self... and she DID seem unsure about going to lay down on the bed that was next to Gabby. :uhoh: According to what the trainer is saying, it also sounds like bullying from Gabby's part.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

This isn't about Gabby being alpha over you, it's Gabby being alpha over Mia. Mia seems unsure and fearful (in her own home) because she is. Gabby is acting out more because she feels more comfortable, more at home and is feeling in possession enough to assert her position over Mia.

Personally, I would not let this continue. The adverse affect this is having on Mia is not good. She is a more submissive personality, but that doesn't mean she should be fearful and cowering in her own home. I do not believe Gabby is a good match for Mia. If she stays you run the risk of Gabby escalating to attacking Mia.

If you aren't ready to give up on Gabby, try taking her to family or friends house for a couple of days and see how Mia behaves , and how the stress level feels to you without Gabby in the house. I suspect you will find Mia is happier and you have been on edge.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

shortcake23 said:


> It just feels wrong, in a way, since we've also fostered for them... and I wouldn't want us to be in bad terms with them...
> And it seems like they're really trying to help us to make this work...


If they are working with you they should understand if you need to return Gabby. Why do you think it would put you on bad terms with them? It shouldn't. Are you willing to leave Mia in a stressful situation for life just to avoid possible bad terms with the rescue group?


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

I don't think your Rescue Group will look down upon you or have any hard feelings towards you about Gabby not working out. Sometimes it just doesn't work for whatever reason and you shouldn't feel bad or guilty about it. Your Rescue Group should be understanding. 

Gabby might do better in a home where she is the only dog or she might do well with another dog besides Mia. 

It is unfair for all-yoursleves, Mia and Gabby too.


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## Goldens R Great (Aug 19, 2010)

I've had two successful rescues, but I did have one that didn't work out. When Addy was 13 I decided to adopt another dog. The golden rescue organization matched me with a dog they thought would be perfect with Addy. The new dog (a golden mix) wasn't in my home very long before I realized there were going to be problems. There were resource guarding issues with food and water, growling, snarling and lunging by the new dog towards Addy, etc. I thought about bringing in a trainer and had started looking for trainers to call. Before I could do that though the new dog attacked Addy while Addy was lying around in a room doing nothing. There weren't any toys, food or water anywhere close to her. I immedately pulled the new dog off of Addy and separated them the rest of the night and the next day. I knew I could never trust the new dog around Addy again.

I called the rescue that night. Understandably I was very upset. I can't tell you how understanding they were though. I talked to the head of the rescue and also this dog's previous foster parents and they were totally shocked by the new dog's behavior. I drove the dog back to the foster parents the next morning and the dog was shortly adopted into a new home where she was the only dog. Months later I talked to the foster parents and the new dog was getting along great in her new home. 

Six months later I went back to this same rescue. They were happy to match me with another dog and I trusted them enough to try it again. I adoped Rindy and she has been the perfect girl.

Please don't feel guilty if this doesn't work out. I think Mia needs to be happy in her own home and Gabby possibly needs to be in a home by herself. Maybe she would be fine with a male dog too.

You shouldn't have to be on edge every day worrying about Mia and Gabby's interactions. That's a stressful way to live.

Please know I'm thinking about you.


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

*Returning Gabby*

After an almost daily occurence of growling & dominance, since Saturday, we've decided we don't want to risk this escalating any more. We've decided that the best thing to do is return Gabby to the rescue. We've contacted them and they were very nice and understanding. We're working on details for when we can bring her back to her foster's... which is 4.5 hours away! :uhoh:

I feel SO sad and also feel bad for Gabby, but I feel relieved at the same time. I just feel like crying right now... 

Oh, and the rescue will look for another Golden for us. Do you guys think that two females wouldn't work together? Should we ask them to look for a male instead? We liked the idea of having two girls... but only if it would work out... 

Thanks everyone for your support in all this!


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Please don't feel sad or bad! I know this is hard, but you are doing the right thing. The rescue will find Gabby her perfect match, and they will find you a great companion for Mia. Just based on my personal experience, I think it's easier to find a male/female pair that work well together than a female/female pair, but that's only my experience. Rest assured that everyone will be happier when Gabby goes to a different placement.....


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## jimla (Oct 9, 2008)

Finn's Fan said:


> Just based on my personal experience, I think it's easier to find a male/female pair that work well together than a female/female pair, but that's only my experience.


That is my experience also. We discovered Roxy had a dominant personality after we adopted her. She gets along great with Elliot because he is so mellow. He never "takes the bait" when Roxy teases him with her toys.


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## Goldens R Great (Aug 19, 2010)

I believe you totally made the right decision. You absolutely do not want this to escalate. I'm so glad the rescue is being supportive. 

I understand about the crying part. When I took the golden mix that didn't work out back to the foster parents I cried the whole way there. I will say when I get home though I did feel relieved. 

That's great the rescue is looking for another golden for you. I've always had female dogs together and never had any problems. (Well, except for the golden mix!) 

This time around I decided to try the boy-girl combination and I have to say I really like it. Rindy and Finn get along terrific. They are in love. They are really obsessed with each other and get along great even though he is totally different from her. She is shy and skittish, having started life out in a puppy mill, and she's also extremely calm, while he is an energetic wild man, but for some reason it works. I think in the future I'll always have a boy-girl dog combo.

I'm glad you're searching for a new friend for Mia.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

shortcake23 said:


> After an almost daily occurence of growling & dominance, since Saturday, we've decided we don't want to risk this escalating any more. We've decided that the best thing to do is return Gabby to the rescue. We've contacted them and they were very nice and understanding. We're working on details for when we can bring her back to her foster's... which is 4.5 hours away! :uhoh:
> 
> I feel SO sad and also feel bad for Gabby, but I feel relieved at the same time. I just feel like crying right now...
> 
> ...


I think you have made the right decision. I'm sorry it didn't work out. IMO it is harder to put two adult females together. I would encourage you to meet some males and see how Mia likes them, or perhaps foster a few males and choose one that gets along with Mia really well. 

I really applaud you for giving it a real chance, there certainly is no fault in the dogs or in you that it didn't work between them. I know this is a hard decision, but you are doing what is best for everyone.


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

mylissyk said:


> I think you have made the right decision. I'm sorry it didn't work out. IMO it is harder to put two adult females together. I would encourage you to meet some males and see how Mia likes them, or perhaps foster a few males and choose one that gets along with Mia really well.
> 
> I really applaud you for giving it a real chance, there certainly is no fault in the dogs or in you that it didn't work between them. I know this is a hard decision, but you are doing what is best for everyone.


Thank you. My hubby and I have talked about it and are open to a male. 

We actually have fostered two males previously and they got along great with Mia, and vice versa. They were both bolters though, and we can't have that since we love going to the cottage and it's not fenced-in, and ppl kept telling us that was more common in males... So it made us lean more towards a female... But it's probably false, right???


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

*Gabby's gone*

Well, Gabby's gone. My husband's on the way to drive her to her foster's home, which is 4.5 hours away! He said he didn't mind... I feel so sad, but relieved at the same time...


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I don't think males are more prone to bolt. I have three boys, a golden, a lab mix and a dachshund. For the two big boys I do not need a leash during walks and I can leave the gate open and they won't step a foot outside. They are content at home. The dachshund is still young and being a dachshund, he wants to chase whateve he sees, especially rabbits. He got out the gate one time and disappeared for a good 20 minutes and then he happily returned, tongue lolling from the run and layed down and slept.
I think a male would also be a better match for your Mia. Good luck and of course, the new dog needs to stay leashed till he is trained and knows where he belongs. I have never had a Golden that wanted to run away, my males always have been velcro dogs, Goldens and others alike.


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

I don't believe that males are more prone to bolt. All of my dogs have been males, and when they accidentally get out, they come to the front door to be let back in How nice that your hubby is making that long drive for all of you.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Shortcake*

Shortcake

I am sure you did the right thing. Maybe you want to look into a more sedate, little bit older male, that doesn't run. I think my female Golden, Smooch, would have run if she saw something she wanted to chase!!


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## BajaOklahoma (Sep 27, 2009)

I'm sorry that you have to return her, but you want the best for all.

We keep the dogs on leash at the lake. We don't have a fence around the house, just the one around the 900+ acre community. But we have deer, fawns, wild turkeys, cougars, and foxes. 
Our lake rangers require that dogs be leashed in the water (sigh). Even though the regs require 8 ft leashes, I sppke with them and they are fine with the long leads on our well-behaved dogs (I figure just asking showed we are trying to be good people).


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

Karen519 said:


> Shortcake
> 
> I am sure you did the right thing. Maybe you want to look into a more sedate, little bit older male, that doesn't run. I think my female Golden, Smooch, would have run if she saw something she wanted to chase!!


We actually want a dog that has energy to play with Mia. 

We've fostered two male Goldens, one was 3.5 yrs old and one was 8 yrs old and they both were bolters.


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

cgriffin said:


> Good luck and of course, the new dog needs to stay leashed till he is trained and knows where he belongs. I have never had a Golden that wanted to run away, my males always have been velcro dogs, Goldens and others alike.


Of course we would make sure to train them first before even attempting to let them off-leash. We're not risk takers :

And as I said in another post, we had two male Goldens as fosters, and both were bolters... one was 3.5 yrs old and the other 8 yrs old...


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

BajaOklahoma said:


> I'm sorry that you have to return her, but you want the best for all.
> 
> We keep the dogs on leash at the lake. We don't have a fence around the house, just the one around the 900+ acre community. But we have deer, fawns, wild turkeys, cougars, and foxes.
> Our lake rangers require that dogs be leashed in the water (sigh). Even though the regs require 8 ft leashes, I sppke with them and they are fine with the long leads on our well-behaved dogs (I figure just asking showed we are trying to be good people).


That's too bad that you have to keep them on a leash at the lake... My in-laws' cottage also has wild turkeys, foxes, raccoons (and even bears on occasion), but we've been bringing Mia there since a pup and we don't worry about letting her off-leash. Only at night last year we kept her on a long lead as more wildlife seemed to be around that year...


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

shortcake23 said:


> Thank you. My hubby and I have talked about it and are open to a male.
> 
> We actually have fostered two males previously and they got along great with Mia, and vice versa. They were both bolters though, and we can't have that since we love going to the cottage and it's not fenced-in, and ppl kept telling us that was more common in males... So it made us lean more towards a female... But it's probably false, right???


My female is my bolter, my male will stay right with us, and check in with us if we take them out to family property, we have to keep Lilah on a long lead. So no, I don't think it's a male thing, it's an individual dog thing.

It sounds like Mia liked the boys :curtain:


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

mylissyk said:


> It sounds like Mia liked the boys :curtain:


She did. 

But she also has a few good friends that are females (2 Goldens and one husky/border collie mix)... but mostly because the other dogs our friends have are males!! LOL! If they were females, she'd probably be their besties too! :


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I would try to find Mia a puppy in rescue, maybe a Golden mix? When Selli was one we got her a brother, a Golden Collie mix Doone, who was an amazing dog and the two LOVED each other. Unfortunately though Doone was a runner and he jumped a 4' fence to chase a deer and was hit by a car and died. I decided that I would need to find a young pup to be able to train the dog not to chase prey that way since I have always taken my dogs on off-leash adventures.

So I found my Duffy, who was about 11 weeks when we got him. Duffy is a Golden Sheltie mix and would probably be happier not living in a dog park, but he ADORES Selli. She is his reason for living. Selli loves her "little brudder" and lets him get away with all sorts of stuff including taking toys right out of her mouth. It is definitely a good match personality wise and one I would recommend....a young (less than 4 months old) male Golden or mix of Golden and another dog social breed to worship Mia!


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

Selli-Belle said:


> It is definitely a good match personality wise and one I would recommend....a young (less than 4 months old) male Golden or mix of Golden and another dog social breed to worship Mia!


The rescue I volunteer (and foster) for, and that we have our adoption app with, usually gets mostly "purebread" Goldens... And not often young puppies. I'd LOVE a puppy, but scared at the same time as we were SO lucky with Mia... She never destroyed anything, even as a puppy, so could we be THAT lucky twice? 

We put in the app as an approx. preferred age range between 6 months to 3 years old... And either gender. :crossfing


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