# Jersey -- JH Wannabe (long introduction)



## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

I've decided to start a thread about Jersey's quest for a JH title. It's something I've always wanted to do with him but have never quite gotten around to. I'll surely be looking for pointers and advice as we go along, so I thought I would start things off by giving a bit of our training background (and I'll be completely honest that "a bit" pretty much covers our background). In the time I have owned Jersey, we have lived in 3 states and ventured into a variety of dog sports. That combination has greatly limited the time we've spent directly training in the field... mostly the frequent moving and the difficulty I have had in both NJ and NC in finding training groups that work for my schedule. Here's the Reader's Digest version of facts about our training to this point:

1) We spent a little less than a year after moving from NJ getting the opportunity to go out weekly and learn some of the very beginning basics of the sport from a wonderful group in NY state. Mostly, I learned that Jersey has quite a bit of natural instinct and drive to perform in the field... he absolutely loves it! 

2) He has not been through any sort of formal force fetch program. I fully acknowledge that some here will see that as a major (or perhaps insurmountable) gap in our training... but I don't intend to embark on one with him now at 8 years old. I don't mention this to be argumentative, but only to shed light (up front) on exactly where I'm coming from. With a younger dog or looking to delve into upper level competition, I may hold a different perspective... but this is where we are right now. Despite that, I have no doubt in my mind that when he is sent he will do his best to find the bird and bring it back to me. He has never failed in that. Ever. I can see how a more formal program would have given us, for example, a cleaner delivery to hand (particularly out of the water).... but that's a weakness I'm willing to endure at this moment in time in lieu of other things. That said, I promise up front not to take offense if someone says in a reply something along the lines of "For the record, this is an issue you likely would have avoided with force fetch because (xyz) is directly taught in such a program." That will probably be good information for me (and others) to know in the long run... but if there's any other suggestion you can offer along with that, that can help me with this dog in this situation, I'd really appreciate that too. 

3) I still don't really have a group of people I can regularly train with. I was lucky enough this weekend to find two people local to me who are (to varied extents) involved in field training and hope to be able to get together with them and their larger group down the road to work out some of our kinks. However, I think it's important to confess that many of my weekends are currently booked with agility trials. Jersey and I are working in earnest toward earning our MACH, so I am not singularly focused on field work at this time. 

4) I have recently begun entering Jersey in hunt tests. We did one weekend in early November and plan for two weekends (actually back to back) in December. I haven't entered these tests with any true expectation that Jersey will pass them. I do believe that on any given day, he has the talent to manage a pass (and he does have one already... from almost 2 years ago) but I am fully aware that I have not put in the time/effort necessary to set him up to be consistently successful. I am doing this mostly because I love to see him as happy as he is in the field and I figure it's really the only way I have right now to get him out there and determine what we need to work on. I realize it's an expensive way of doing so... but I'm okay with that. 

5) Yes, I have an ultimate goal -- a JH and along with it comes his VCX (I'm also considering pursuing a WC at some point... trying to stick with one thing at a time, though). -- but mostly that's because I feel it's the only way to force myself to take the time to get him out there and let him do what he loves to do. Without a goal I get lazy, as evidenced by the last 5 or 6 years. I look at it this way: he's spent 8 years happily participating in the activities I've chosen for him. It's well past time I let him choose one.

6) Jersey's greatest strength lays in his perseverance. He simply doesn't give up. I've seen this in the field... and in our own backyard. This is a dog who would hunt for a good hour to find his tennis ball under 3 feet of snow. His greatest weakness is that he hates to be "wrong." It's hindered us in some training areas, and he will at times shut down rather than risk getting it "wrong".... so setting him up for success is important. We've gotten pretty good at working around that, but it may limit my willingness to try certain things with him so I thought it was important to mention.

So yes, our training is patchwork at best. And yes, I'm sure that the best way to be consistently successful and reach greater proficiency would be to start at square one. But I'm working with a very green (and in some ways, soft) 8 year old dog and I don't hold any illusions that he is going to be happily running in the field at 16 years old. I want to give him as much opportunity as I can to get out there while he is physically able to do so. So I will try to patch what I can and let the chips fall where they may... even if it means we ultimately do not reach our goal. I hope that introduction is helpful in building a groundwork for this thread. If not, sorry to have rambled, lol.

I appreciate the opportunity to share this little adventure with you guys and look forward to learning more in the process. 

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Originally this was part of the first post... but I thought it'd be more easily seen if I broke it up into a new one: 

Anyway, as to not waste time -- I'm going to start with my first, and currently most pressing, issue. How can I remind this silly dog that he has a nose? 

In the test we entered earlier this month, we had a land series on tougher terrain than we've previously seen in a junior test. It actually wasn't even the field that was originally chosen for us to work on, but logistics made it necessary. I don't believe it was "too hard" for a junior... just more than we've encountered. Basically, Jersey marked the bird beautifully. After a very brief pit stop to examine the goose decoys (yes, we'll be doing our best to proof him on that too), he ran straight to where the bird fell. Even though that detour took him off a direct line and gave him a significant distraction... he still knew EXACTLY where that bird fell. I was in shock but watched and waited for him to pick the bird up. He must have jumped right over it. 

In fact, he must have jumped over the darn thing 3 or 4 times as he hunted a gradually wider and wider area. It was the first time he's ever returned to me in a test without the bird... actually he acted as though he was going to send himself right back out, as though he came back just to reset, but I called him in because I was afraid of him overdoing it for what would ultimately be a failed mark even if he'd found it that time. 

When he went straight out to the area the bird fell, the judge commented "Now he just needs to use that golden nose," clearly assuming that he would. But he didn't. He couldn't SEE the bird, so he moved on, just assuming it must not be there. Actually, the day before on our water series he had another long hunt that cost him the pass which possibly could have been avoided if he'd picked up the bird's scent (though that's not as cut and dry an example as this land series on day 2). Clearly this will be an ongoing issue if I can't figure out a way to communicate to him that he needs to use his nose in addition to his eyes.

Thus far, I've taken him out a few times and hidden the Dokken (injected with duck scent) and encouraged him to find it. We had an opportunity to train with our local (okay, semi-local) GR club yesterday and it's apparent that he hasn't quite made the connection yet (I didn't assume he had, but this confirmed it). I would love to know if any of you have had this problem with a dog and what types of activities you found helped them put it together.


Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Good luck with Jersey.

Now for the nose. Scent that tennis ball and roll it in your back yard at night. Then send Jersey to find it. Take that tennis ball again, scent it, and throw it into moderate cover. Do this any time of day.

The ball is small and green and not that easy to see in the conditions I describe. I use the above techniques myself with all my dogs. You can also carry the ball on a walk with the dog, on lead, throw the ball into cover, then send the dog. It's well worth a try.

Also, do you hide treats around the house that Jersey has to sniff out?


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## Mayve (Aug 21, 2012)

Julie,

I know nothing about this but am looking forward to learning. Sage is from field lines...quite a few MH in her lines and I have often thought about working in this area even though I don't hunt because she show a great prey drive and I think she would enjoy it.z

I look forward to hearing about Jersey and your adventures in this area.

Karyn

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

gdgli said:


> Good luck with Jersey.
> 
> Now for the nose. Scent that tennis ball and roll it in your back yard at night. Then send Jersey to find it. Take that tennis ball again, scent it, and throw it into moderate cover.
> 
> ...


We have done that last part (though not recently). GREAT idea about the tennis ball! With the Dokken, I've found for the most part that as he gets closer he can see it since it's pretty big, using a tennis ball will definitely make that more challenging for him. I've also done some of the hiding at night... but I know he can see in the dark better than I can so I wonder sometimes how much of a challenge that really is. One night I put it on the up end of the teeter... definitely something he wasn't expecting and forced him to air scent a little bit. I need to keep finding unique places with higher cover to keep challenging him too.

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

do you have access to live birds?


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## TrailDogs (Aug 15, 2011)

Jersey's Mom said:


> We have done that last part (though not recently). GREAT idea about the tennis ball! With the Dokken, I've found for the most part that as he gets closer he can see it since it's pretty big, using a tennis ball will definitely make that more challenging for him. I've also done some of the hiding at night... but I know he can see in the dark better than I can so I wonder sometimes how much of a challenge that really is. One night I put it on the up end of the teeter... definitely something he wasn't expecting and forced him to air scent a little bit. I need to keep finding unique places with higher cover to keep challenging him too.
> 
> Julie, Jersey and Oz


If you have any places you can take him for off leash walks with different types of cover and just toss his ball or dokken in and let him find it. I wouldn't worry too much about him seeing the dokken while he is hunting in the cover because you want him to have a lot of success. 
Maybe someone on here can help you with a training group in your area so he can get some more marks. 
I also agree with you that you should not FF this dog. He does not need it to get through Junior or a WC. Keeping him confident and succcessful on marks will go a long way.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> do you have access to live birds?


Unfortunately, no. I do have one dead duck in my freezer right now that I was able to get after our training session yesterday. It's in pretty good shape so I should be able to get a few good uses out of it... I just need to be strategic about it.

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

TrailDogs said:


> If you have any places you can take him for off leash walks with different types of cover and just toss his ball or dokken in and let him find it. I wouldn't worry too much about him seeing the dokken while he is hunting in the cover because you want him to have a lot of success.
> Maybe someone on here can help you with a training group in your area so he can get some more marks.
> I also agree with you that you should not FF this dog. He does not need it to get through Junior or a WC. Keeping him confident and succcessful on marks will go a long way.


That's definitely been one my hold ups -- finding open areas with decent cover that I can use. I mentioned in my first post that I was lucky enough to find two people in my area who seem to have some sort of informal field training group -- I'm going to ask them where they normally train and see if they know of any good spots with different types of cover. I appreciate your input!

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Have you checked this page?
American Kennel Club - Club Search and Directory


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

about the dead duck, be sure it's good and dry before you re-freeze it and you should be able to use it for a LONG time! I've kept re-freezing them for months.
Pheasants fall apart faster, but ducks last a long time. You can even blow dry it with a hair dryer if you have to


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> You can even blow dry it with a hair dryer if you have to



Or a fan works even better, especially if you can suspend the duck in the air in front of the fan.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

As far as his using his nose. Although Goldens are known to have excellent noses some just don't. And with all he has been through over the past year I would not be surprised if it has damaged his sense of smell. I would spend time on getting him to really focus on the mark and to trust his eyes when you can get someone to throw for you. Then his nose will be more than sufficient.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

I have a friend who has a young lab from a FC x MH breeding. This little girl was born knowing how to mark, she is amazing. However, she was not born knowing how to use that black thing on the end of her nose. She would put up the biggest, fastest hunts you ever saw. She would get almost frantic trying to find the bird on the rare occasion she didn't know where it was. We just kept throwing birds (dead) and she learn how to turn on her nose and effectively hunt the AOF. A good gunner that can use least amount of encourage to stay in the AOF is very helpful. Of coarse, if they are staying in the area then just let them hunt it up.
Working hunt tests is an excellent way of scoring a freezer full of birds. I recently worked a WC/WCX and took home a boat load of birds. I think between myself and a training partner we picked up well over a dozen gently used birds.

I don't think you need FF to achieve a JH. 
Best of luck to you and Jersey. I can't wait to hear all about it.
Dog to the line!
Holly


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> about the dead duck, be sure it's good and dry before you re-freeze it and you should be able to use it for a LONG time! I've kept re-freezing them for months.
> Pheasants fall apart faster, but ducks last a long time. You can even blow dry it with a hair dryer if you have to





AmbikaGR said:


> Or a fan works even better, especially if you can suspend the duck in the air in front of the fan.


I have use both of these techniques. LOL, we must be crazy.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Julie, I am not going to be a resource of great knowledge but would love to get together and train. Not sure what your schedule is like during the week but if you are able to meet me anytime during the day I would love to throw for you. Send me a Facebook message, I check that more often than I am here.
Kristy


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Was just going to say -- where in South Carolina? Maybe some other board members are local and you can get together!
From reading your post here are my thoughts:
1) If Jersey brings the bird back roughly to hand (i.e. he may drop it en route but picks it up if you tell him to) that is good enough for Junior, so don't sweat the FF stuff if you have no plans of going beyond Junior.
2) Jersey needs birds. It's not that he's not using his nose, it's that he doesn't know he's looking for a duck when you show up at a test. He just doesn't have enough of a catalog of experience retrieving birds for that to be his default. The dokken + duck scent is not the same thing. Start training with JUST birds and those problems go away. Typically you can buy birds from the hunt tests you attend (usually ~$5 the end of the day Sunday), get 4 or 5 of them. So long as they are dry before you freeze them, ducks last forever. 
3) Jersey needs to see lots of marks coming from other people, not you. Walking singles you throw by yourself only get you so far. He needs to look out at the gunner, focus, proceed to the area, and stay in the area. He needs to know that the bird is near that dude standing out there behind the holding blind. 
4) The good news is, if you've spent the money to enter him in tests, if you can train just 2-3 times per week from now until the tests, you should be fine. That may be a lot more field training than you can keep up over the long haul, but short term it's a sacrifice you'll need to make. 
5) BEST OF LUCK!!! How fun are hunt tests???


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Claudia M said:


> Have you checked this page?
> American Kennel Club - Club Search and Directory


I checked that page about 2 years ago, when Jersey got his first past on a fluke outing (my dad was coming down for a hunt test and encouraged me to enter one day). There's no groups in a reasonable distance to me that are very active... at least, formal groups listed on that page. I'm trying to do some networking through the golden retriever club to find some less formal groups that may work out better for me.



hotel4dogs said:


> about the dead duck, be sure it's good and dry before you re-freeze it and you should be able to use it for a LONG time! I've kept re-freezing them for months.
> Pheasants fall apart faster, but ducks last a long time. You can even blow dry it with a hair dryer if you have to


The last couple of ducks I had (again, 2 years ago) held up for a good long while. That's a great tip though, and will definitely help keep it in better shape. Thanks!



AmbikaGR said:


> As far as his using his nose. Although Goldens are known to have excellent noses some just don't. And with all he has been through over the past year I would not be surprised if it has damaged his sense of smell. I would spend time on getting him to really focus on the mark and to trust his eyes when you can get someone to throw for you. Then his nose will be more than sufficient.


I had considered that possibility... but I also remember that this was an issue for us back when we were training with Westchester. He eventually got the idea of it back then... but I can't remember what I may have done to help guide him in that direction. You're right though that his sense of smell may not be what it was before he got sick... and that may limit him from tuning into the bird if his mark is way off... but at the same time, I feel like any effort at sniffing at all should have led him to the bird that was literally right under him during that last test. 



hollyk said:


> I have a friend who has a young lab from a FC x MH breeding. This little girl was born knowing how to mark, she is amazing. However, she was not born knowing how to use that black thing on the end of her nose. She would put up the biggest, fastest hunts you ever saw. She would get almost frantic trying to find the bird on the rare occasion she did know where it was. We just kept throwing birds (dead) and she learn how to turn on her nose and effectively hunt the AOF. A good gunner that can use least amount of encourage to stay in the AOF is very helpful. Of coarse, if they are staying in the area then just let them hunt it up.
> Working hunt tests is an excellent way of scoring a freezer full of birds. I recently worked a WC/WCX and took home a boat load of birds. I think between myself and a training partner we picked up well over a dozen gently used birds.
> 
> I don't think you need FF to achieve a JH.
> ...


It sounds to me like you're saying he basically just needs a LOT more chances to mark and hunt to help him put it together. That makes a lot of sense... and I'm going to work hard at getting him out a lot more than we have been. I'm curious though -- and this isn't just directed to you, but for some reason you post made me think of the question -- although obviously real dead ducks are the best thing to work with, does the scented Dokken translate fairly well to the real thing? Or is it a poor substitute for the real thing? I'm not entirely sure that makes any sense... sorry, I have a killer headache and am having trouble focusing... but hopefully someone can figure out what I'm trying to say. I mainly ask that because I'm concerned about bringing the real duck outside my personal property (or a friend's personal property)... people can be less than accepting of that sort of thing, even here in the south.

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Oh, depending on what number you run at a test, scenting conditions can vary wildly dog-to-dog. I like to be 10-15 dogs in. If you're toward the end 30+ dogs later, there is so much scent all over the place, the dogs can have a hard time picking out THEIR bird. That doesn't excuse leaving the AOF but it does explain why they can hunt and hunt and hunt in the area and take forever to come up with it, even though obviously there is bird smell everywhere.
Dogs are SOOOO sensitive to scent, there's no way a dokken + duck scent smells anything like a real duck.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

K9-Design said:


> Was just going to say -- where in South Carolina? Maybe some other board members are local and you can get together!
> From reading your post here are my thoughts:
> 1) If Jersey brings the bird back roughly to hand (i.e. he may drop it en route but picks it up if you tell him to) that is good enough for Junior, so don't sweat the FF stuff if you have no plans of going beyond Junior.
> 2) Jersey needs birds. It's not that he's not using his nose, it's that he doesn't know he's looking for a duck when you show up at a test. He just doesn't have enough of a catalog of experience retrieving birds for that to be his default. The dokken + duck scent is not the same thing. Start training with JUST birds and those problems go away. Typically you can buy birds from the hunt tests you attend (usually ~$5 the end of the day Sunday), get 4 or 5 of them. So long as they are dry before you freeze them, ducks last forever.
> ...


1) That's what I figured... but I also know that even with a basic level like JH or WC that there's value in taking a more organized approach (FF or not) than what I've done. I figure at least a few of the issues I may have may be due to the kind of piecemeal training we've done, so I thought it best to put it out there up front.
2) You must have posted this as I was typing my last response. That's exactly what I was trying to ask. I learned a lot yesterday at the training session and today in this thread about how to best transport and take care of a duck so it lasts... so now I'll just be sure to get a bunch more. We'll keep the Dokken aside for now.
3) The hardest part (for me) will be finding people willing to help out in throwing them... but I'll just have to figure something out there. I have a feeling I'm going to be bribing a few friends with a lot of beer for this one, lol!
4) The only tough part is our next two tests are only 2 and 3 weeks out. But they're only an hour from home... so I couldn't turn down the opportunity. But again, I'm going mostly for the opportunity to give him exposure... we'll worry about expecting to actually pass the tests later.
5) THANKS!! They really are so much fun... he quivers from head to tail on the line from the excitement of it and I've heard this boy make a few noises (wines and barks) that I've never heard out of him before both in the holding blind and in the car waiting for his turn. I really had high hopes of getting more involved in all this 2 years ago when he passed that first test... but an injury last year and some illness this year put things off. It's about the best feeling I can think of to see him feeling good and getting to do what he loves most!

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Oh yeah, only two weeks? Make it your mission to train Monday-Wednesday-Friday and one day of the intervening weekend. BRIBE ONE FRIEND and take them out for dinner after you train. Crash course Junior training only requires one thrower LOL


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

K9-Design said:


> Oh yeah, only two weeks? Make it your mission to train Monday-Wednesday-Friday and one day of the intervening weekend. BRIBE ONE FRIEND and take them out for dinner after you train. Crash course Junior training only requires one thrower LOL


M-W-F I can manage... and hopefully Sunday late afternoon. We'll be out of town for our last agility trial of the year this weekend... and I'll be camping in a barn, so I can't exactly take the bird with me, lol!


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

If you can't get birds or if your one bird doesn't last, don't give up.
Throw bumpers to give him a chance to learn how to mark, as everyone says "dogs learn to mark off of singles"..... you need to throw a lot of them.
Walking singles, in line singles, x pattern singles, just get him marking.
I bet Winter only saw birds about 5% of the time we trained when we ran JH.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

hollyk said:


> If you can't get birds or if your one bird doesn't last, don't give up.
> Throw bumpers to give him a chance to learn how to mark, as everyone says "dogs learn to mark off of singles"..... you need to throw a lot of them.
> Walking singles, in line singles, x pattern singles, just get him marking.
> I bet Winter only saw birds about 5% of the time we trained when we ran JH.


Ok, help me out... real novice here. Can you explain the basics of what walking singles, in line singes, and x pattern singles are?


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## PalouseDogs (Aug 14, 2013)

I'm a rank novice at hunt training, too. Maple is the first dog I've done hunt training with. She loves it so much more than anything else, now I'm stuck. 

Yes, you need to use real ducks until you have no doubt she knows to look for a duck. Use the ducks until they're too disgusting to stand anymore. Then use them one last time for water retrieves. I don't use my ducks in water until they're on their last legs because they last a lot longer if they stay dry. I've also done the blow-drying. (Dog-training can drive you to do some pretty weird things.) When your dog is experienced on ducks, go back to bumpers or dokkens most of the time. They are a whole lot more convenient.

You need to train sometimes with other people, but you can do a whole lot with stand-alones, in which you leave the dog in a sit-stay, walk out, blow your duck call (and fire a starter pistol every once in a while), throw the duck, and holler the dog's name to release. The dog will me more inclined to search longer if you are close by. It will build confidence and you can help if you feel he needs it. 

At first, you'll be extending distance on low cover, like on a ball field. You'll also be throwing very short marks into heavy cover. Don't start with long marks in heavy cover! Do medium length marks in medium cover. Start extending the distances for marks into heavy cover as the dog gets more confidence and experience in different types of heavy cover. 

Also, look for NAHRA or HRC clubs.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

"3) The hardest part (for me) will be finding people willing to help out in throwing them... but I'll just have to figure something out there. I have a feeling I'm going to be bribing a few friends with a lot of beer for this one, lol!
4) The only tough part is our next two tests are only 2 and 3 weeks out. But they're only an hour from home... so I couldn't turn down the opportunity. But again, I'm going mostly for the opportunity to give him exposure... we'll worry about expecting to actually pass the tests later."

Maybe you can meet people from your area that will be competing as well.  
Also, check around your area to see if there are any retriever breeders that also train. Not just Golden Retrievers but also Labs, Flat Coats, Nova Scotia Tolling Retrievers etc.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Jersey's Mom said:


> Ok, help me out... real novice here. Can you explain the basics of what walking singles, in line singes, and x pattern singles are?


Walking Singles







Gunner throws mark, dog picks it up and delivers to handler, gunner walks to next position maybe 20 yards away throw next mark. This is repeated until all marks thrown. If you have inexperienced thrower you can get the little flags on a wire at Home Depot and place them where the gunner is to go next.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Inline Singles







This teaches dogs to run though old falls and can stretch them out.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Gold stars for Holly!!!


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

X Singles







The gunner stays in one place and throws. This teaches them to mark angled in and angled out throws ( throws make an X) We always do flat throws to each side too. (Maybe we should rename it Fireworks Singles).

Hope my stick gunners help. :


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## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

Just wanted to say I am so happy that you started this thread and am extremely appreciative of everyone's input. Wow, learning so much!


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Holly, that went above and beyond... and made them all very clear! Thanks so much for taking the time!!

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

Just want to throw a few things in here. 

First, welcome! Field work is fun!!! I agree that you don't need FF for JH.

You are actually in luck to have a dog that uses his eyes so much. It is easier to teach a dog to use his nose than to teach a dog to mark with his eyes. I've trained with a friend who has a dog who simply "generally" marks the bird then would run around frantically, nose to the ground, trying to find the bird. It took a lot of work to get his nose off the ground. I think that Jersey just needs more exposure and will quickly pick up the idea. 

Where in North Carolina are you? Riot and I aren't training right now, but I am always up for helping throw birds.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

MarieP said:


> Just want to throw a few things in here.
> 
> First, welcome! Field work is fun!!! I agree that you don't need FF for JH.
> 
> ...


I'm right in Indian Trail! How did I not know there was another member in Charlotte? Hi!

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Jersey's Mom said:


> I'm right in Indian Trail! How did I not know there was another member in Charlotte? Hi!
> 
> Julie, Jersey and Oz


yayay - so great! And when Riot gets better he can train with Jersey!


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Hello! :wave: There are only 3 of us. Let's make a plan!


Jersey's Mom said:


> I'm right in Indian Trail! How did I not know there was another member in Charlotte? Hi!
> 
> Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Jersey's Mom said:


> Holly, that went above and beyond... and made them all very clear! Thanks so much for taking the time!!
> 
> Julie, Jersey and Oz


I love my I-pad. It makes stuff like this a snap. 

Your description of Jersey vibrating with excitement when he runs field is why I got as involved with it. Winter always wants to play whatever game we are playing that day but she shivers in excitement when we train field. Plus I think she came prewired on how to play this game. So much instinct is in her. A training partner always calls her my old fashion hunting dog. 

Anyway, the drills that I put up I still run. You start out on short grass and fairly close, add distance, add cover, add terrain, separately, as the dog progresses. When you can add distance, terrain, cover and angled throws all at once to walking singles you have what we call technical singles. I run technical singles at least once every two weeks and even though we have wingers we hand throw them.

Best of luck. Go get them Jersey!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

BTW Kristy big props to you for force-fetching a Collie. I can see it's working already! hahahaha


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

You can also look at other avenues for tests than AKC depending on what is in your area. www.nahra.com or UKC (HRC). Each one has their different requirements. I would download the various rules and see what you like and what associations are in your area.

I started training Reilly last winter at the age of 5. He's a sweet boy and eager to please. We've had some basic obedience classes and his highest title is a CGC, so no real competition. He's been fun to train. No FF, but we did CC for re-call (he wants to eat the bird). So keep it light and fun, older dogs can be easier to train than young ones in a lot of ways. The really nice part of an older dog is, they already know stuff. It's not like you're training them to know what sit means, they've been doing it for years. So basics go a lot faster, I think you can get more done in one day with an older dog than a high energy young one. But hey, I'm no expert.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

This is a great thread already, I'm looking forward to following Jersey's progress. It's motivating me to get out with my dogs to start training again since I took a long hiatus after Jack's (and my) huge giant collosal fail at our practice JH test last year.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Jersey's Mom said:


> 1) We spent a little less than a year after moving from NJ getting the opportunity to go out weekly and learn some of the very beginning basics of the sport from a wonderful group in NY state. Mostly, I learned that Jersey has quite a bit of natural instinct and drive to perform in the field... he absolutely loves it!
> 
> 2) He has not been through any sort of formal force fetch program. I fully acknowledge that some here will see that as a major (or perhaps insurmountable) gap in our training... but I don't intend to embark on one with him now at 8 years old. I don't mention this to be argumentative, but only to shed light (up front) on exactly where I'm coming from. With a younger dog or looking to delve into upper level competition, I may hold a different perspective... but this is where we are right now. Despite that, I have no doubt in my mind that when he is sent he will do his best to find the bird and bring it back to me. He has never failed in that. Ever. I can see how a more formal program would have given us, for example, a cleaner delivery to hand (particularly out of the water).... but that's a weakness I'm willing to endure at this moment in time in lieu of other things. That said, I promise up front not to take offense if someone says in a reply something along the lines of "For the record, this is an issue you likely would have avoided with force fetch because (xyz) is directly taught in such a program." That will probably be good information for me (and others) to know in the long run... but if there's any other suggestion you can offer along with that, that can help me with this dog in this situation, I'd really appreciate that too.
> 
> ...


#1: Isn't it exciting to see how much our dogs love to do what they were born to do! Natural instinct is great, actually it's a "must have" to play the field games at any level. But you've got that covered, so neeeext....
#2: As to "no formal FF" program ... ahhh, no big deal, at least not at this stage! FWIW, I don't do things in what most folks would consider to be the "conventional" way (and I've even picked up a few field trial ribbons), and I certainly don't train in accordance with the time table that most trainers follow, so do what you think is best for your dog. Make the program fit the dog, not the dog fit the program! 
As for him dropping a bird when he comes out of the water, I suggest meeting him at the water's edge and just say "hold" and take the bird from him BEFORE he has a chance to drop it. Do that several sessions, then move away from the water just a step or two a day, and say "hold" before he exits the water each and every time ... then praise him for bringing it all the way to you. If he's dropping the bird in order to shake, deal with that as an obedience issue ... you will need him to learn to come all the way to you before shaking, then to shake on command; this should be done without a bird or bumper involved. Baby steps on this one.
#3: Priorities are personal, so get the MACH, then get into the field!
#4: High hopes, low expectations are actually a pretty good combination ... heck, you could make it as a field trialer with that attitude!  
But so far as learning what you need to work on at the tests, just know that you will have to work on it all. What is known as the "amateur syndrome" is on Monday, train on the type of set up that the judges set up on the previous weekend; that doesn't work. A balanced training plan is what you will need to develop. Certainly you will see deficits that you need to address, but don't give them all of your training time.
#5: From what I've read, I am absolutely certain that a JH and a WC are in Jersey's future ... but shoot for a WCX! (And after that MACH, you may even be looking at a SH, since your boy loves the field work so much!)
#6: Training via success is fundamental to teaching your dog what you want him to do! Once he's successful at level A, throw in an additional factor and see him reach level B, then throw in another factor .... Training is teaching, then proofing. That's all you need at the JH/WC level. If you intend to move higher in the field work, the next stage after proofing is enforcing...that's for later.
Hey all, this is what it's all about! 
Have fun in the field!
FTGoldens


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

hollyk said:


> Walking Singles
> View attachment 300730
> 
> Gunner throws mark, dog picks it up and delivers to handler, gunner walks to next position maybe 20 yards away throw next mark. This is repeated until all marks thrown. If you have inexperienced thrower you can get the little flags on a wire at Home Depot and place them where the gunner is to go next.


Great response. One little suggestion, pay attention to the direction of the wind. When possible, have the gunner/marks downwind from the line. This forces the dog to go to or slightly beyond the mark before hitting the scent cone; also, if the marks are upwind, the dog may learn to start hunting short.
If you are dealing with a cross-wind, start on the downwind side of the field and throw the marks WITH the wind and, after the dog picks up the bumper/bird, have the gunner walk INTO the wind to the next throwing location ... this helps teach the dog to NOT run at or behind the gunner (if the mark is thrown into the wind, obviously the dog benefits from running at, or even behind, the gunner). 
FTGoldens


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

Great thread, love the Hollyk diagrams. 
I just wanted to put a word of caution about pre-entering events you don't know or care if you're ready for. I have done that and said "what's the big deal, no one'll die if Gladys can't pick up her triple" 
But what I learned in retrospect is there could be a big deal if BAD HABITS form, ie. switching, giving up on the area too easy, coming back with no bird.
Just be aware and if you see bad habits developing you don't want reinforced, I would rather skip a test I paid for than chance reinforcing a bad habit I was worried about. Because undoing bad habits is more work than teaching to begin with.
Looking forward to following Jersey's progress.. good luck and keep up the great work!


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Ha! You laugh, but it has crossed my mind. He looks so beautiful and animated when he heels but the thought of teaching him some other things for obedience, like a retrieve, gives me pause - he will be a challenge.

How is everyone doing with their training over Thanksgiving??? I hope there has been more discipline than I've shown - we have been busy and I've only been going out for group exercise. Time for me to hit 'reset' and get back at it. This morning I've added HollyK's diagrams to my training notebook - after I get lights on the tree I'm taking Ellie to the greenway.



K9-Design said:


> BTW Kristy big props to you for force-fetching a Collie. I can see it's working already! hahahaha


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Sorry I haven't been around this thread in a bit. Jersey and I were able to get out a few times with our duck over the last few weeks, though I did have some trouble trying to reign in someone to throw for us. Regarless, I think even the little we were able to do helped... especially thanks to the advice I received here regarding ONLY using the duck with him (not bumpers or the Dokken). We had a pair of tests this weekend and I don't think there was any doubt in his mind that he was going out for a duck! 

Time to brag: He went 2 for 2 this weekend!! That is officially legs 2 and 3 for him and we have another pair of tests next weekend!!
At least 3 times this weekend in conversations with fellow handlers, when I mentioned the minimal amount of exposure Jersey has had to working in the field and retrieving birds I received comments to the effect of "Can't tell it by watching him." He really does have amazing instinct for this work -- he's such a remarkable dog!
And a little bit of fun: On two occasions this weekend someone asked how old he was and when I answered 8 their response was "Months?" He's just a big silly puppy... and I love it!

Now for the blooper real: During Jersey's water series on Saturday, he went to inspect the decoys to see if they were his duck and got badly tangled up in 2 of them. Luckily, he was able to get to a place where he could stand on the bottom of the pond before things got too tight. The dogs had to pretty much swim right through the decoys to get to the mark and with the direction the wind was blowing (according to some people who commented to me afterward and today) the bird was pretty much falling right behind the strings/weights attached to them. Poor guy wouldn't walk out of the water on his own, despite the bird boys waving a duck at him and trying to coax him. So some nice person drove me around the pond and in I went to get him. The water was about knee high, it was about 45 degrees out with a really chilly wind. Even trying to lead him by the collar, he wouldn't walk out.. so I picked him up and attempted to carry him out of the water. Unfortunately, a decoy got lodged between us which made him really hard to hold and when I went to readjust him I lost my footing and down I went.... just over waist high in the water!!!! And guess who forgot to bring a change of pants!! (I did have a few extra shirts with me). The very kind steward loaned me her husband's spare pants and a jacket.... and, much to my surprise, asked if we would like to re-run after I 
get dried off and changed. Jersey was ready to go the moment I cut him free of the lines... and he ran the marks spot on the second time (giving the decoys a half sniff and a wide berth that time!!). 

Today was much less eventful, though yesterday's fiasco was the running joke of the day! Jersey's last mark on water today was a little touch and go. He had to go through cover (about knee to thigh high), through the water, through another patch of cover and a little ways up a hill to get to the mark. He had a good line but pulled up short, checking the water line really good. He started hunting around on the hill... made a quick stop by the gunner's station... then went back to them two more times because they were talking (was a little less than thrilled about that)... but he kept hunting the area and finally caught the scent and made it to the mark. The judge, at one point, had encouraged me to let him keep hunting (I wasn't intending to call him back in... I didn't know if we'd pass, but I did know that he would find it sooner or later) mentioning that his other scores had been "really high," and suggesting he had a little room for error on this one. I went up to the club house with really no idea whether we had passed or not and was absolutely thrilled when they called me up for a ribbon!

So, that's our weekend. One more to go and then we are officially done with events for 2013!! SO proud of my dog!! See photos with his ribbons below -- the photo with me in it is from Saturday, wearing someone else's pants, lol!

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

congratulations! he looks great in orange!


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

Congrats!!! I'm so happy to hear that things went so well! I can't wait to hear about you getting your title next time.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Yippee X 2!!!!!
Go team Jersey.
Good luck next week-end.


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## PalouseDogs (Aug 14, 2013)

Woo hoo! A title to end the year will be a nice Christmas present. Go Jersey.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

PalouseDogs said:


> Woo hoo! A title to end the year will be a nice Christmas present. Go Jersey.


It most definitely would! Thanks everyone!

What's especially nice is that we are going back to the same place next weekend! Also, I forgot to mention that I made a good new friend this weekend. He owns a very large farm about 35-40 minutes from my house and frequently has little groups out to train. So I will be taking full advantage of that opportunity once they start up again (likely in February). Yay!

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

Congratulations! Awesome photos, Jersey is adorable. Happy training and good luck next weekend.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Made the father of both Team members VERY proud!! Go Team Jersey!!!


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

I saw Jersey on FB, congratulations! You made it look easy


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

A little late on updating (sorry, turns out I'm sick. Slept 13 hours from yesterday afternoon to this morning and feel no better... yuck.). Anyway, despite how I feel, it really was a spectacular weekend!!! Jersey went 2 for 2 again!!! Saturday was just spot on awesome and officially finished our JH title!! Sunday, he gave me a little scare during the first retrieve. Naughty boy was in the mood to play and did a ton of extra running for no good reason. Eventually he came back toward me (not all the way in) and resent himself right to the duck. I have no doubt he knew where it was the whole time... he was just feeling cheeky and excited! His second mark in the land series was spot on perfect. I was a little unsure as to whether he would make it to water (he did) and if so how much room for error he would have on his marks (didn't need any... he marked them absolutely perfectly and went right out to them). Best part -- I didn't have to borrow any clothes this weekend, lol!

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

WOOOOHOOOOO!!!! Huge congrats! That is so awesome. Didn't take him too long to figure out the game. He just needed to know exactly what he was looking for  Love the pictures.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Yay for Jersey!


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

SO PROUD of this TEAM!!! Julie left out that the JH will qualify Jersey for the GRCA VCX certificate. And that makes him a 3rd generation VCX as his mom, Lucy, and her mom, Keeper, were both recipients.


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## 2golddogs (Oct 19, 2009)

Congratulations!!! Jersey looks fabulous wearing orange. Hope you feel better.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

That is AWESOME news all around!!  CONGRATS!! Jersey is so cute!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Congratulations!!! Way to go!!


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

I was just thinking of your post title. He's not a JH Wannabe now! ha ha


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Woohoo Team Jersey! 
JH and 3rd Generation VCX WOW!


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