# Dumbell Retrieve by the ends. Solutions??



## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Baxter has been progressing in his dumbell retrieve but he somehow prefers to carry the dumbell by the end instead of the bar. I have tried different sizes of bars and ends and it doesn't seem to matter, he always brings it back by the end. He holds it by the bar but will not pick it up off the ground by anything but the end. Unfortunately that means he also tends to drop it before he can get it back to me since it is too bulky to carry that way.
Any suggestions to resolve this with my silly boy would be greatly appreciated.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

You might want to go back to teaching hold. 

My instructor doesn't let people proceed to actual retrieves if the dog can't pick up and hold the dumbbell. 

She also has people squirt a little cheezwiz on the bar to encourage the dogs to grab there first and not kick or run through the dumbbell.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

He has a great hold, which is why I find this to be interesting. He will leap up and grab it by the bar, but if it is on the ground he always picks it up by the end.
I started with the hold and was careful not to try retrieving until I was certain he was solid. We spent many months just doing hold but perhaps he is not as solid as I thought and I need to back up...hmmm...???


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Faelan did this for quite a while. We (myself and several instructors) did a many pronged approach and something worked 

- Pick up from an elevated object so he had to learn to scoop it
- Pick up from within a box so he could only pick it up from the bar
- Pick up from a corner
- Reset the dumbbell in his mouth properly before accepting delivery

One day, it just seemed to click with him. With Faelan, the incorrect pickup only happened at speed, so going back to hold training would not have helped. We did not want to slow down his pickup just teach him how to pick up at speed,


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

BayBeams said:


> He has a great hold, which is why I find this to be interesting. He will leap up and grab it by the bar, but if it is on the ground he always picks it up by the end.
> I started with the hold and was careful not to try retrieving until I was certain he was solid. We spent many months just doing hold but perhaps he is not as solid as I thought and I need to back up...hmmm...???


By hold - I mean those first few steps. Or where I train they want people to go step by step before the dumbbell is thrown. 

1. Handler says 'take it'. Dumbbell is placed in the dog's mouth. 'Hold'. Praise hold. Remove.

2. Handler says 'take it' and praises the dog when it makes that reach for the dumbbell vs the handler moving it closer to the dog's mouth. 

3. Handler places the dumbbell on an elevated object (chair seat). Says 'take it'. Dog is praised when he correctly picks up the dumbbell from the chair.

4. Handler places the dumbbell on the floor at feet. Praises successful take it/hold. 

5. Handler places the dumbbell a foot away. Etc.

6. Handler places the dumbbell further away. Etc.

And you build distance, control, and successful pickups before you connect the hold with the tossed retrieve. <- A lot of the time this is a short transition from placed retrieves to tossed retrieves. It shouldn't take months. 

The people I train with also work on giving the dog a dumbbell and having the dog heel a few steps or just do a straight front with the dumbbell correctly placed in the mouth.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I think I'd handle it by immediately telling the dog no when they grabbed it by the ends, then walking in and taking the dumbbell from them, put it back on the ground, and resend. Praise like crazy when they pick up by the bar.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Update: after taking it from the the dog I would hold it so they had to take it correctly, praise, _then_ set it down and resend.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Are you still doing the Denise mini-meetings? 

I'd probably shape for a proper pick up. If he'll take it correctly up high, systematically transition your offering from up high to toward the ground.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Also, is he traveling any distance with it, or are you doing pick ups in very near proximity to you? I'd probably want correct local pick ups before I sent him any distance to get/bring it. I think in some dogs, the running to it gets them in "silly retrieve" mode and then they aren't concentrating on the official task.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Are you still doing the Denise mini-meetings?
> 
> I'd probably shape for a proper pick up. If he'll take it correctly up high, systematically transition your offering from up high to toward the ground.


Yes, I am still working with Denise and occasionally I get a working slot, otherwise I audit. She suggested I get a dumbell with oversized ends that Baxter could not fit in his mouth. So I borrowed a huge dumbbell but my silly boy still figured out how to carry it by the ends. Of course, he ended up dropping it before he got to me. 
I think I will back up and work on closer to me and various positions a while longer until he gets it. As it is now, if I hold the dumbell on the ground he will pick it up by the bit but if I set it on the ground without touching it he grabs the bell. If I give it a negative marker, such as "that's not it" or "uh, uh" he gets "small" and stops working. This is a dog that needs to succeed more than not so Denise suggested I try to set it up so he wins. 
I must admit he looks very cute carrying the dumbell around by the end so I try not to laugh or give him an encouraging look. It is just darn cute, though...


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

BayBeams said:


> Yes, I am still working with Denise and occasionally I get a working slot, otherwise I audit. She suggested I get a dumbell with oversized ends that Baxter could not fit in his mouth. So I borrowed a huge dumbbell but my silly boy still figured out how to carry it by the ends. Of course, he ended up dropping it before he got to me.
> I think I will back up and work on closer to me and various positions a while longer until he gets it. As it is now, if I hold the dumbell on the ground he will pick it up by the bit but if I set it on the ground without touching it he grabs the bell. If I give it a negative marker, such as "that's not it" or "uh, uh" he gets "small" and stops working. This is a dog that needs to succeed more than not so Denise suggested I try to set it up so he wins.
> I must admit he looks very cute carrying the dumbbell around by the end so I try not to laugh or give him an encouraging look. It is just darn cute, though...


I don't think you really want him carrying to to you by the bell - especially not far enough where he gets part of the way there, and then drops it.

Does he get "small" if you praise the effort (his willingness to play the game) but playfully take it from him and try it again ... and he doesn't earn the click until he gets it right?

I'm visualizing ... he picks it up incorrectly ... "You silly boy ... that's not it ..... (calmly take it, re set it) ... let's try again..." More of a literally just trying again vs. any kind of NRM. So long as he's playing the game, and needs the praise, I'd praise him for playing at all - but have an additionally clear marker for the precise moment he plays in a way that you will pay money (food) for.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

FlyingQuizini said:


> I don't think you really want him carrying to to you by the bell - especially not far enough where he gets part of the way there, and then drops it.
> 
> Does he get "small" if you praise the effort (his willingness to play the game) but playfully take it from him and try it again ... and he doesn't earn the click until he gets it right?
> 
> I'm visualizing ... he picks it up incorrectly ... "You silly boy ... that's not it ..... (calmly take it, re set it) ... let's try again..." More of a literally just trying again vs. any kind of NRM. So long as he's playing the game, and needs the praise, I'd praise him for playing at all - but have an additionally clear marker for the precise moment he plays in a way that you will pay money (food) for.


Oh, I get it! Now that might work with him. I haven't actually tried it that way. If he even thinks he didn't get it right he will shut down but your suggestion makes sense for him. Thanks!


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