# 8 month old aggravation



## Beanie (Mar 18, 2010)

We've been having fun with agility (have been in class for months) but the past few weeks we've entered the teenage months and are just a brat. She wants to go to class and have fun - visit - play but not focus. She now has taken to taking off after an obstacle and running to the folks watching. I have to go get her and try again. Sometimes she will do it but more than likely she will take off again. So I then put her on the leash and do it again. At the last class I got after her a bit more when she took off and gave a quick tug when I caught her (small yelp) and then did the course with much praise and treats. By the end of the class after about 4 corrections (with the blessing of the instructor) she was frustrated with me and after the jump, when right instead of left, into a tunnel and just laid down in the middle. So now I'm crawling into the tunnel to get her out and we then did the rest of the course again with praise and treats and much encouragement after each thing. (there was a jump, an A frame then the tire)

So advice on how what to do here? She is a good girl but we have seen the "whats in it for me" attitude raising it's ugly head this past month and praying it doesn't last too long and my more aimiable pup returns very soon!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Beanie said:


> She wants to go to class and have fun - visit - play but not focus.


LOL, sounds like I could be writing about the middle school students I teach. Also sounds a lot like the post I wrote last night about my boy gets distracted too easily.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

I'd recommend finding another class. For the weeks you have left... attend, but only do an exercise if you're willing to bet $50 your dog will stay with you. 

Finding a class that focuses more on the foundation exercises (attention to you, moving with you, turning when you cue, going ahead to obstacles, contact position) will make you enjoy class better, your dog enjoy class better, and prepare you to return to sequencing class. 

Continueing to run sequences and have your dog run off multiple times per night will only increase your frustration, which makes your dog want to stick with you less, and doesn't address the underlying missing pieces of foundation training and teamwork. And it just doesn't sound like much fun for you... Trust me...I went to class and had that happen for four years before I realized something wasn't right!

So...
1) Prevent the behavior. Keep your dog on leash, only do activities she can do (I would NOT do activities on leash, she knows she's on leash and moves slower).
2) Work on training: Attention exercises, improve foundation, improve fluency on all the skills she has. There's a ton you can do (I love the book _ Agility Right from the Start_ for foundation training!) at home with no/minimal equipment. Be SURE your leash is loose if you are working your dog on leash. "Making" your dog do things with the leash does not translate well to working off leash.
3) Find a supportive class environment. Find another instructor. Maybe do a few privates before going back to group class.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

My Casey used to do this - and attempt to climb into laps .. The standard advise back then was for the owner to disappear so the dog got worried and would stay closer - it did NOT work in Casey's case but you might wish to try it. Or the person being visited folds their arms and turns away - again might be worth a try.

In field work, depending on the dog we either fold our arms and turn away (while grabbing the goody bag) or actually make ack-ack sounds while flapping our arms - I like this discouragement method since it seems to work and I am not involved in teaching the dog that while working, visiting is not a good thing.

But mostly, your dog is at the teenager stage. I personally do not use physical corrections on the agility course but make myself as interesting as possible - and this can be very hard. I also now make sure I have a good obedience foundation before beginning agility and if my dog started exhibiting avoidance behaviors in agility, I would probably either step back in my training, or switch over to obedience for a while. 

I have one additional comment - you mentioned a correction that caused a yelp followed by more corrections and your dog hiding in the tunnel. If you need to correct, are you making sure you are *immediately* praising when the 'bad' behavior ends? The correction actually creates a void which the correct behavior should fill - your dog leaves, gets corrected, looks at you and should be praised and/or rewarded. It can be tough I know, but it is a critical closing step for a correction.

Good luck.


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## Beanie (Mar 18, 2010)

thanks all for the thoughts. to answer your question Sunrise - Yes indeedy, when she was good she was showered with attention and several treats. The whole class was cheering for us when we made it through.  The folks she ran to most definately turned their backs and were no fun but that sure didn't stop her from trying. Something has to change because she is getting worse not better with this.

Honestly, I'm questioning this myself. I like the trainer but she hasn't been much help in this situation. She seems to think the problem is my treats aren't high enough value. She doesn't understand that I've tried about every treat I can find and she only eats things like dried beef liver. I brought chicken, hot dogs, cheese and she just ignored it. The other pups in the class also have their moments but Miss Ellie has been the worst. We haven't been doing the ground work you all mention for quite some time, we do more sequences of things and work on contacts on the bigger items. I don't want her to hate this and I am tired of chasing her down. 

I love the folks in my class which is what makes me hesitiate to move but maybe that is the key here. I have a couple of weeks left so I'll just see how it goes I guess.


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

I have another question. Are you doing full size obstacles and jumps or no?

If so, jumping should be at a bare minimum until 2 years. Just might be another reason to find another class. If your pup is doing bare minimum jumping, then forget my post.


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## Beanie (Mar 18, 2010)

Not sure what bare minimum means. We do 1 foot jumps. I suppose we went over maybe 6-8 yesterday in the hour.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Beanie said:


> I love the folks in my class which is what makes me hesitiate to move but maybe that is the key here. I have a couple of weeks left so I'll just see how it goes I guess.


I'd make sure you have a plan in place to try and minimize bad habits for those next couple weeks.

I'd stop and reward between EVERY obstacle for now. Remind her that the good stuff comes from you. If she only eats dried beef liver as a treat in that environment, then that's what I'd use. Don't worry about being able to do multiple obstacles in a row. Do one, reward her. Sit... do the next one. When she's consistently staying with you after one obstacle, then try two if you feel you have her focus/attention before you start.

What about toys? Does she like to play tug? Tug is a great agility reward b/c it's totally interactive between dog and handler.


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## Beanie (Mar 18, 2010)

Thanks for making me think through all of this again. I did speak to a new trainer who offeres puppy agility and foundation classes. I told her what has been going on and she gave me a good description of her classes and her approach. I think it might be a good fit. I'm planning on attending her class starting next week. Other folks tell me that she works well with the young dogs and has lots of patience and tricks up her sleeve. I sure hope this is all very true. I feel like we missed a critical connection between us. I don't blame my old class as most of the folksa are doing fine - I just think we need a bit more time with the basics than most.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

That is really great news! Sometimes you need to keep trying to find a good fit between you, your dog and your instructor. It sounds like you have found someone with a good background, who can help you lay a good foundation, which is so important – good luck !!


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I would be very very careful using corrections in agility, in fact I am a little surprised you found a trainer who condoned your use of corrections in the agility setting.

The main problem with corrections in agility is that they de-motivate your dog, they tend to make them unsure of themselves and slower when agility is all about speed and confidence. In addition, correcting your dog when it is reunited with you will also make the dog less likely to come back to you. 

I agree with quiz; treat between each obstacle, use dried liver or a toy, ask the spectators to ignore him, work on foundation skills, keep it possible and make yourself the most interesting thing in the room.


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## Beanie (Mar 18, 2010)

Selli-Belle - you hit the nail on the head for me. I was uncomfortable with the corrections. Out of complete aggravation I grabbed her the first time harder than I normally ever would and felt bad. The trainer told me I was fine as long as she was not on an obstacle. But what happened is she then got afraid of me. Not what I want and honestly I don't like doing corrections anyway unless absolutely necessary. I want this to be fun for us.

If the trainer had stepped back with me and given me some constructive ideas I'd feel ok but I just felt like I was holding up the class.

When I called the new trainer I also had left a message for the current trainer. I felt like I needed to ask for help outside of class and see if she had different ideas. It has been three days and no call. I guess that says something too.


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## sdain31y (Jul 5, 2010)

Sorry to interject, but what age should dogs begin to do agility? I'd thought it was around 2 due to the growth plates not fusing until then? Also, what early agility-type training can be done?


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Sdain,

Sorry, I just saw that you replied. In general, you don't want to start jumping your dog or doing full on weave poles with your dog until the growth plates have closed, which typically happens between 16 to 24 months. I waited to jumps Selli at full height until she was two, but I know lots of people who either have their dogs x-rayed younger to see if they have closed and then if they have, start jumping them then.

Prior to their growth plates closing, you can train everything except full on jumping and weaves. You can set the bars on the floor or at 4" to give the dog the idea of going over something between the uprights and teach the idea of moving around and through jumps. You can work on the contact obstacles, but be careful about the speed with which you hits the contact and the floor on the way down. 

Many training places have special puppy agility classes or will allow older pups in beginning classes, where you aren't doing full height jumps or weaves any way. I would ask around for a place to start classes.


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