# Conformation Weaknesses: what are her flaws!?



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

How old is she?


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

livduse said:


> How old is she?


She’s 3. Never got to showing her until now as we adopted 3 kiddos right before covid and then.. COVID hit haha. We are showing her for fun and to hopefully get a litter from her eventually


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

Maddie_goldens said:


> She’s 3. Never got to showing her until now as we adopted 3 kiddos right before covid and then.. COVID hit haha. We are showing her for fun and to hopefully get a litter from her eventually





Maddie_goldens said:


> She’s 3. Never got to showing her until now as we adopted 3 kiddos right before covid and then.. COVID hit haha. We are showing her for fun and to hopefully get a litter from her eventually


We believe in proving them somehow before… whether being a service dog or a show dog(new thing to us). She is a PTSD service dog for my husband that served in the army and his doctors think it would be good for the both of them to become partners in the ring.


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

Maddie_goldens said:


> We believe in proving them somehow before breeding… with her being a service dog and hopefully a show dog(new thing to us). She is a PTSD service dog for my husband that served in the army and his doctors think it would be good for the both of them to become partners in the ring.


----------



## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

Try to get a level photo of her, it is not fair to evaluate a dog at this angle.


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

Tagrenine said:


> Try to get a level photo of her, it is not fair to evaluate a dog at this angle.


I’ll try tomorrow! It’s midnight almost here


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Agreed, a level photo would be easier to evaluate.


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Pretty nice looking dog! I would look into doing a CCA with her. No training required. Best of luck.


----------



## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

She’s a lovely dog! I’m definitely not an expert but agree that she looks a little long In body for the ideal breed standard, but hopefully someone with WAY more experience than I have will chime in. 😉

I think it would be fun to at least see if she can get a CCA (certificate of conformation assessment) but keep in mind there’s all sorts of activities you or your husband can participate in (most of which are far easier to succeed/title in than conformation). Agility, Obedience, Rally, field work, nose work, dock diving, therapy work, FASTCat, are all options to consider.


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

pawsnpaca said:


> She’s a lovely dog! I’m definitely not an expert but agree that she looks a little long In body for the ideal breed standard, but hopefully someone with WAY more experience than I have will chime in. 😉
> 
> I think it would be fun to at least see if she can get a CCA (certificate of conformation assessment) but keep in mind there’s all sorts of activities you or your husband can participate in (most of which are far easier to succeed/title in than conformation). Agility, Obedience, Rally, field work, nose work, dock diving, therapy work, FASTCat, are all options to consider.


The funny thing is that she is LOVES to be shown when we do little “at home” rings for fun. We have tried agility and nose work and dock diving but she hated it with all of her sweet existence😂 haven’t looked into the others. I’m not sure how to go about doing CCA… we are in Alaska and haven’t found anything about one happening… then again I’m a novice.


----------



## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

You would need to check with the Midnight Sun Golden Retriever Club I think. I know Alaska is huge, but they are the only club I know of off the top of my head. There are usually 1 or 2 big shows in Alaska every year in the summer where a CCA might possibly be held in conjunction with the show.


----------



## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

She’s a pretty girl!! If you’re able to get a level photo of her standing square I’d love to see.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

So...I'm probably always the first to refuse to comment on a bad stack or bad photo/angle. And I'll say that's why I wouldn't comment on the face/expression/head photo - because it really doesn't show what we'd normally want to see with a head shot. The lighting and angle is funky. I guess as example, it appears she has good pigment (nose and eye rims), but her mouth does not appear to be as tight as preferred with this breed. And the angle of her head in the pic doesn't allow for a fair consideration of her muzze/head/headpiece.

Stacked picture is not as bad as some that I've seen. She definitely is long in body. And then there is something going on in her croup/tailset. It's either too straight a croup or a high tailset. Head/front appear nice in the first pic.

Now if she's 3 years old and doesn't like jumping in agility or dock jumping... get her hips and elbows checked/OFA cleared before you do anything. Assuming they have not yet been checked?

Try conformation and see if you enjoy it.  Hate to burst anyone's bubbles, but while I've been showing for 8 years.... I've seen a lot of people starting up.... and disappearing after 1-5 shows.

Conformation looks like an easy sport outside the ring or playing around at home. It does get tough when you enter the ring for a variety of reasons. And then you get people quitting because... their dog doesn't enjoy the sport.

If you are planning to breed the dog - my opinion is you should be able to take your dog into the show ring and show her. Among else, being able to show your dog shows that you have a dog who meets breed standard. It also teaches people what should be there - that's assuming they haven't gone all sour grapes while thinking their dogs have it and "the ref is blind". 

As well - I gotta add that conformation shows are such that typically you have to have a nice dog - temperament wise. I showed my guys today and every single boy dog there was getting their nose dabbed with vicks because there were a lot of girlies in season and the boys were losing their minds. LOL. And this was close quarters so any quarrelsome tendencies - would have been difficult to keep under wraps.

The only other thing is bigger emphasis that before you start conformation or other sports to prove a dog mental and physically meets the breed standard and is something special.... please make sure your dog gets full clearances.

Um... there was a moment where my youngest was completely sprawled out on the grass outside the ring today - full frog position and not caring a bit who or what was walking around him or stepping over. <= One lady with a spinone stopped and commented that was a very comfortable dog.... and good hips. And I smiled and told her, "Yep, you betcha. Wouldn't be here if they weren't." As much fun as conformation is.... it's quite expensive proving a dog who cannot be bred because of failed hips or elbows. 

Talking to other people around my setup - there were more than a few who typically plop down $500-1500 on hotel accommodations for big shows (3-5 days). That's a lot to spend on a hobby you are doing just for fun.


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

Megora said:


> So...I'm probably always the first to refuse to comment on a bad stack or bad photo/angle. And I'll say that's why I wouldn't comment on the face/expression/head photo - because it really doesn't show what we'd normally want to see with a head shot. The lighting and angle is funky. I guess as example, it appears she has good pigment (nose and eye rims), but her mouth does not appear to be as tight as preferred with this breed. And the angle of her head in the pic doesn't allow for a fair consideration of her muzze/head/headpiece.
> 
> Stacked picture is not as bad as some that I've seen. She definitely is long in body. And then there is something going on in her croup/tailset. It's either too straight a croup or a high tailset. Head/front appear nice in the first pic.
> 
> ...


I. An assure you she just doesn’t like it because she is trained not to be distracted from my husband. She LOVES the water and to play rough. But only on her terms lol. Also, she sits in frog position all day long lol. I’ll find a funny picture. And yes her tail and croup do look a bit funky now that I look at that photo. I’ll try and get a better picture of her soon. We have a bad windstorm coming through that inhibited me. As for her muzzle. She got her mamas and it isn’t very tight. She has verrrryyyy dark pigment and has shades of light gold in her creamy coat. It’s so pretty! Thank you for responding! I really appreciate it!


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Maddie_goldens said:


> I. An assure you she just doesn’t like it because she is trained not to be distracted from my husband. She LOVES the water and to play rough. But only on her terms lol. Also, she sits in frog position all day long lol. I’ll find a funny picture. And yes her tail and croup do look a bit funky now that I look at that photo. I’ll try and get a better picture of her soon. We have a bad windstorm coming through that inhibited me. As for her muzzle. She got her mamas and it isn’t very tight. She has verrrryyyy dark pigment and has shades of light gold in her creamy coat. It’s so pretty! Thank you for responding! I really appreciate it!


She still would need full OFA clearances (hips, elbows, heart, eyes) and genetic testing at the bare minimum before before you even considering breeding her. You also would want to prove her in some way. I prefer breeders who prove in both conformation and performance. Unfortunately, a lot of people just say "my dog is healthy, my dog is breed standard, my dog has a great temperment, etc." without putting in the time and money to prove it. Not every dog is meant to or should be bred as well. Responsible breeders work to preserve our beloved breeds and work diligently to produce puppies with incredible health, temperament, and structure. I don't know how well she would do in the AKC ring, but you won't know until you try. I'd be interested to see some better photos of her.


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

livduse said:


> She still would need full OFA clearances (hips, elbows, heart, eyes) and genetic testing at the bare minimum before before you even considering breeding her. You also would want to prove her in some way. I prefer breeders who prove in both conformation and performance. Unfortunately, a lot of people just say "my dog is healthy, my dog is breed standard, my dog has a great temperment, etc." without putting in the time and money to prove it. Not every dog is meant to or should be bred as well. Responsible breeders work to preserve our beloved breeds and work diligently to produce puppies with incredible health, temperament, and structure. I don't know how well she would do in the AKC ring, but you won't know until you try. I'd be interested to see some better photos of her.


That’s not what I meant at all! We would do all of the testing before considering breeding her. I just was saying that I know that she doesn’t have it based on those things alone. However that alone isn’t enough to breed her. We plan on doing Pennhip for hips and then OFAs for the other testing. She already has genetic testing as we were curious of what her results might be with Ich. As for performance, she isn’t a big retriever lol and havent had enough time to train her in agility(7 kids 4 being special needs) Possibly in obedience though, as she has had enough training for that I was looking into UKC and IABCA as well for conformation. Though I hear they aren’t “respected” as much.


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

ArkansasGold said:


> You would need to check with the Midnight Sun Golden Retriever Club I think. I know Alaska is huge, but they are the only club I know of off the top of my head. There are usually 1 or 2 big shows in Alaska every year in the summer where a CCA might possibly be held in conjunction with the show.


Thank you! We actually went to one in July(to get her eyes and heart checked) sadly there wasn’t anymore spots It was soooo fun to see all the dogs happily showing their stuff! I didn’t see anything about a CCA sadly


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Maddie_goldens said:


> We plan on doing Pennhip for hips and then OFAs for the other testing.


Why not just do OFA's - hips and elbows? Get it done. One stop, all done, out of your hair - posted publicly on OFA.

Also - if she's 3, then she should have 3 years worth of eye clearances.

As well, heart clearance from cardiologist.

The advantage of using OFA is when you are making puppies in the next year or so (age 3, she's not getting any younger), when buyers ask about clearances - you just email a link to her OFA page. It's all there. And it will make you look good for getting it done prior to breeding.

OFA is great for posting publicly not just the hips/elbows - but everything else, including the DNA stuff. 

It is worth getting it done. Especially as it seems you are eager to start spending money and getting started with her.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Megora said:


> Why not just do OFA's - hips and elbows? Get it done. One stop, all done, out of your hair - posted publicly on OFA.
> 
> Also - if she's 3, then she should have 3 years worth of eye clearances.
> 
> ...


And if PH is your thing, one of the views is also the OFA view- it'd cost you an additional $10 or so to add hips to the elbows, since PH doesn't do elbows. Do both if you must do PH.


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

Megora said:


> Why not just do OFA's - hips and elbows? Get it done. One stop, all done, out of your hair - posted publicly on OFA.
> 
> Also - if she's 3, then she should have 3 years worth of eye clearances.
> 
> ...





Prism Goldens said:


> And if PH is your thing, one of the views is also the OFA view- it'd cost you an additional $10 or so to add hips to the elbows, since PH doesn't do elbows. Do both if you must do PH.


I’m doing them both! Just using Pennhip for hips and ofa for the rest!


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

Maddie_goldens said:


> I’m doing them both! Just using Pennhip for hips and ofa for the rest!


As for the OFA hips, I like that Pennhip is more based off science rather than opinion. Although I will likely send them to OFA anyways since one radiograph can be used


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Maddie_goldens said:


> As for the OFA hips, I like that Pennhip is more based off science rather than opinion. Although I will likely send them to OFA anyways since one radiograph can be used


PH is useful as a breeder tool.

OFA is useful as a database and a comparative authority when you are reviewing a pedigree based on clearances that are pass or fail.

IF you are serious about using PH as a breeding tool - then do so. But you should still do OFA clearances.

PH is a measurement of how loose the hips are.... how much they come out of the socket, etc....

OFA is a pass/fail system with a publicly accessible database to keep breeders honest.

Both work well together... but I would suggest that puppy buyers walk if OFA's are not all there.

I personally don't see PH as a clearance. If OFA hips aren't there, I primarily see that as a breeder hiding a fail... or they are not happy with the grade.


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

Megora said:


> PH is useful as a breeder tool.
> 
> OFA is useful as a database and a comparative authority when you are reviewing a pedigree based on clearances that are pass or fail.
> 
> ...


Well that’s totally up to a puppy buyer and is very smart! I’m still researching on which I want to pursue as my primary testing for hips. Though I think I’m leaning towards just doing both if that’s the way puppy buyer see it(haven’t run into it yet)


----------



## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Megora said:


> "the ref is blind".


Sometimes I wish people yelled at judges like they do refs. Would make shows a lot more entertaining 🤣


----------



## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Maddie_goldens said:


> Well that’s totally up to a puppy buyer and is very smart! I’m still researching on which I want to pursue as my primary testing for hips. Though I think I’m leaning towards just doing both if that’s the way puppy buyer see it(haven’t run into it yet)


The thing is that the majority of puppy buyers don’t understand clearances well at all. There’s a decent percentage of unethical breeders out there doing PH that hide behind the numbers knowing puppy buyers won’t understand them. OFA is better for puppy buyers because they can see the family history - or lack thereof - all in one spot.

The OFA reviews are pretty comprehensive. They are looking at the actual bone structure in addition to laxity. It’s not just “someone’s opinion”. It’s a review by three qualified radiologists and the final rating is the consensus. OFA has a ton of information on how hips and elbows are reviewed on their site.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Megora said:


> PH is useful as a breeder tool.
> 
> OFA is useful as a database and a comparative authority when you are reviewing a pedigree based on clearances that are pass or fail.
> 
> ...


I also do not see PH as a clearance. PH is an evaluation of laxity. That's all. I don't know but a small handful of good breeders who do not use OFA with PH, and the 'clearance' is the OFA piece. 
I see crappy breeders using animals in the DI range of 50+ and that's clearly a fail if they'd used OFA. 



Maddie_goldens said:


> I’m doing them both! Just using Pennhip for hips and ofa for the rest!


Since it costs so little to add in the OFA view when PH is done, and you get a truly good eval using both tools, PLUS an actual clearance, doing both is the reasonable thing to do. As well, you'd pay just as much to have the PH verified and listed on OFA which is the only independent database in the US and that part of the Code is hard and fast. I only see one PH vet in Alaska, in Fairbanks.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Maddie_goldens said:


> Well that’s totally up to a puppy buyer and is very smart! I’m still researching on which I want to pursue as my primary testing for hips. Though I think I’m leaning towards just doing both if that’s the way puppy buyer see it(haven’t run into it yet)


Again - with a 3 year old, you are starting to run out of time.... especially if there is a plan in motion to breed the dog. Or she has already been bred. You are already a year late as far as getting hips and elbows done. There should have been 3 years of eye clearances on her by now. And you are 2 years late for a heart clearance. Generally speaking each of these things need to get done... now. It is the first and most important way to prove your dog as breeding worthy.

A lot of us who show our dogs, etc... we can't wait until they are 24 months old, because that's when we can do OFA finals and like I said elsewhere... you can get that elephant off your back. That's what people do when they take these hobbies pretty seriously. It's not strutting around the ring like toddlers and tiaras - but with dogs. Not to us.

I competed in obedience with a wonderful dog with hip dysplasia. I was very proud of him and happy to go out there with him - but the tough thing in the back of your head the whole time is knowing that while he's turning heads and catching eyes, you have to tell people over and over that he cannot be bred because he failed clearances. With this dog I never had to post pictures online to ask people's opinions of him, because this was a dog who was out there and visible to many golden people. I didn't have to ask people if he was conformation quality, because I literally had people approaching me and telling me I should show him. Which I declined as I told them straight up that my dog had failed hips. I hated that feeling, which is why the first thing I did when the dogs that followed were old enough was doing all the _required _clearances for this breed. And you can't beat that feeling when your dogs clear everything. It's the best day of your life kind of feeling. And the shows that follow, there's an extra skip to your step knowing those clearances are there! There's nothing nagging or worrying in the back of your mind.

Separately from all that - If you have already bred her without any clearances, if somebody asked about you here, the consensus would be to tell the puppy buyers to run away very fast. Doesn't matter what your girlie looks like or what titles she has. Likewise, many of the breed referrals would not list your litter or recommend you because there are no clearances on your breeding dog.

PH is something that a lot of people latch onto for a variety of reasons. But here's the thing, most of the breeders I know of who highly value PH and do it as a rule with their dogs.... it is done in addition to OFA hips/elbow clearances. It's not an either or thing. They do it all.


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

Megora said:


> Again - with a 3 year old, you are starting to run out of time.... especially if there is a plan in motion to breed the dog. Or she has already been bred. You are already a year late as far as getting hips and elbows done. There should have been 3 years of eye clearances on her by now. And you are 2 years late for a heart clearance. Generally speaking each of these things need to get done... now. It is the first and most important way to prove your dog as breeding worthy.
> 
> A lot of us who show our dogs, etc... we can't wait until they are 24 months old, because that's when we can do OFA finals and like I said elsewhere... you can get that elephant off your back. That's what people do when they take these hobbies pretty seriously. It's not strutting around the ring like toddlers and tiaras - but with dogs. Not to us.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much everybody for all this information! I’ll Definately be looking closer into what shows go on around me! And I will be ping PH AND OFAs!!! I don’t want anybody to not trust us as a breeder! Have a blessed day all of you! B>


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

Emmdenn said:


> She’s a pretty girl!! If you’re able to get a level photo of her standing square I’d love to see.


I’d love that! I should’ve done it today🤦🏼‍♀️ It was so nice and sunny! I’ll try my luck tomorrow!!! In the meantime feel free to enjoy her crazy sweetness haha!


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

Tagrenine said:


> Try to get a level photo of her, it is not fair to evaluate a dog at this angle.











Did my best- her back feet’s didn’t want to stay long enough:/ I started a different thread if you would like to see some better head shots as well.


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

pawsnpaca said:


> She’s a lovely dog! I’m definitely not an expert but agree that she looks a little long In body for the ideal breed standard, but hopefully someone with WAY more experience than I have will chime in. 😉
> 
> I think it would be fun to at least see if she can get a CCA (certificate of conformation assessment) but keep in mind there’s all sorts of activities you or your husband can participate in (most of which are far easier to succeed/title in than conformation). Agility, Obedience, Rally, field work, nose work, dock diving, therapy work, FASTCat, are all options to consider.











I started a new thread with head shots as well… hopefully this makes it easier to evaluate her-winter has begun and it’s cold which is why we are inside haha!


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

Emmdenn said:


> She’s a pretty girl!! If you’re able to get a level photo of her standing square I’d love to see.











Best I could do for the moment! Her back leg is making her look high ended🙄 but I think it’s good enough??? If not I can try again tomorrow😅 I started a new thread with some head shots as well so you can go check those out!


----------



## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Much better! So what I’m seeing (and take it with a grain of salt I’m still developing my eye) she’s long in body. Goldens are supposed to be just slightly off square, and your girl definitely seems to be longer there. You did a nice job of setting up her rear! She might look high in the rear because she’s posting in front, so next time really try to get those front feet directly under the shoulder. Hard to see them all the way but her feet look a little flat. One think you can do is practice in a mirror or take videos of yourself practicing so you see how she’s moving and looking and can watch it back to see where you both need improvement and where you’re doing well. I do this allllllll the time. It’s helpful!


----------



## rosegold (Nov 9, 2016)

Emmdenn said:


> Much better! So what I’m seeing (and take it with a grain of salt I’m still developing my eye) she’s long in body. Goldens are supposed to be just slightly off square, and your girl definitely seems to be longer there. You did a nice job of setting up her rear! She might look high in the rear because she’s posting in front, so next time really try to get those front feet directly under the shoulder. Hard to see them all the way but her feet look a little flat. One think you can do is practice in a mirror or take videos of yourself practicing so you see how she’s moving and looking and can watch it back to see where you both need improvement and where you’re doing well. I do this allllllll the time. It’s helpful!


Not to derail the thread but could someone explain flat feet to me? I’ve heard the term a few times. Is it referring to the angle of the pastern, or more the length of the toes? And what’s the difference between that and a hare foot? I found this picture.


----------



## FinnTheFloof (Jun 27, 2021)

It looks to me like the hare feet have more pronounced knuckles?


----------



## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

rosegold said:


> Not to derail the thread but could someone explain flat feet to me? I’ve heard the term a few times. Is it referring to the angle of the pastern, or more the length of the toes? And what’s the difference between that and a hare foot? I found this picture.
> View attachment 885980


A hare foot looks just like a hare. The two front toes sit much further forward than they would on a flat foot or cat foot. Instead of the foot being round, I would almost imagine it as a rectangle. The toes are still tight.

Ive attached a picture I have of a hare foot  I think this will help visualize it.


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

Emmdenn said:


> Much better! So what I’m seeing (and take it with a grain of salt I’m still developing my eye) she’s long in body. Goldens are supposed to be just slightly off square, and your girl definitely seems to be longer there. You did a nice job of setting up her rear! She might look high in the rear because she’s posting in front, so next time really try to get those front feet directly under the shoulder. Hard to see them all the way but her feet look a little flat. One think you can do is practice in a mirror or take videos of yourself practicing so you see how she’s moving and looking and can watch it back to see where you both need improvement and where you’re doing well. I do this allllllll the time. It’s helpful!


Thank you so much! Yes she’s definately long in body… her mom is from Serbia and had a longer body with her dad being MUCH more(what I call)blockedout.


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

Tagrenine said:


> A hare foot looks just like a hare. The two front toes sit much further forward than they would on a flat foot or cat foot. Instead of the foot being round, I would almost imagine it as a rectangle. The toes are still tight.
> 
> Ive attached a picture I have of a hare foot  I think this will help visualize it.
> View attachment 885982


Oh gosh! She doesn’t have hair feet! I have other stacks that don’t have her feet like that lol… I’ll be sure to make a point in fixing that!


----------



## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

Maddie_goldens said:


> Oh gosh! She doesn’t have hair feet! I have other stacks that don’t have her feet like that lol… I’ll be sure to make a point in fixing that!


I would imagine she doesn't, hare feet are pretty specific to sighthounds


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

Tagrenine said:


> I would imagine she doesn't, hare feet are pretty specific to sighthounds


Bahaha yes! I’m a novice to this and trying to get it right!


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Hmm.... I'm not that crazy about the re-stack. Her front feet are a smidge forward and she's pushing off them. Her rear is slightly overstretched + I think her toes are out on the one side. She does appear high in the rear and there's more emphasis on that dip in her back - but I'm not honestly sure if she is or if it's how she is standing.

You can't really see her feet - so I'm not sure where people are seeing flat feet.

And I'm throwing this out here not because I see this in the above pic (feet aren't clearly in the picture) just because it's something to consider if you have a dog who posts often or doesn't like standing up squarely on his feet. One thing to keep in mind too is many show home dogs have their nails trimmed often for more than one reason. Among else, long nails can affect the feet. Not saying she has long nails, but that sometimes those nails can affect how the dogs stand on their feet. They kinda roll back on the feet because they honestly cannot stand up on their toes because their nails are so long.








For goldens we want round and _tight _feet. .

Head shot - main thing I noticed maybe was her ears look like they are set high.... But they don't look so high in the stack pictures....


One thing to throw out there is stacking these dogs.... it's something if you show, we practice a lot with our dogs. A dog stands correctly because the structure is there and there's no aches/pains causing him to distribute his weight funny. A dog also stands correctly because the conditioning and muscle memory is built up by the time he's an adult dog. A lot of show pups get a lot of practice learning to have their feet placed and do "food face" for rewards. So it is tough when you are starting all of this with a 3 year old. So the criticisms regarding foot placement and what's going on with her topline - unless you have somebody knowledgable and going over her, hands on - it can be difficult knowing whether it is simply a case of the stacks being very unfair to a nice dog.

Not sure if Robin and others mentioned getting a CCA on her or going that route - might be worth it, because generally speaking the judges are supposed to be kind with people who are not experienced handlers. A friend of mine had a miserable time trying to get her dog to trot for the CCA judges and they had somebody else move the dog and set him up so he could get the scores he deserved. .

A CCA might be useful particularly if you decide to breed her maybe a year or so down the road, after you do all the clearances - it would help you understand what to look for in a stud dog.

A nice stud dog can do a lot.... Especially if you go with one who is proven and brings a lot of strong points to the table. Assuming you are looking to produce pups who could be show dogs and CH's and take you places you might be dreaming of, you need to go with a boy that has the pedigree you can hang your hat on - but also has all the right things that you want to improve on with the puppies you get from your girlie if you decide to breed her. This is the reason why most experienced breeders tell new breeders to look elsewhere for a stud to breed their girls to. The very typical thing that a lot of people do is buying a boy who can be bred. The danger there is instead of using a boy who has everything their girl needs more of and has proven to do that as a stud dog, they may be trying to fix their girl using a stud who has his own problems that need fixing.

One of the people that I think Robin was referring to as somebody who was a mess to start with and turned everything around as she listened to what people were telling her... I vaguely remember that she was a member of this forum and recall she got lambasted for breeding a dog without clearances and there was a lot of other stuff besides that. The impression I had was when she started out, she was doing it alone without a mentor or without training her dogs.... and things were out of control. The dogs she owned at that time were not going anywhere. She had to earn the trust of breeders to let her co-own a show bred dog. And to get there, she had to listen and put the work in. Fast forward a few years and she is doing quite well, having put CH on a couple dogs. I believe that one of the top finishing goldens at the Westminster show this year - was her dog.


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

Megora said:


> Hmm.... I'm not that crazy about the re-stack. Her front feet are a smidge forward and she's pushing off them. Her rear is slightly overstretched + I think her toes are out on the one side. She does appear high in the rear and there's more emphasis on that dip in her back - but I'm not honestly sure if she is or if it's how she is standing.
> 
> You can't really see her feet - so I'm not sure where people are seeing flat feet.
> 
> ...


Her nails are quite long but not overly long…our groomer is backed up so I am going to try tonight or tomorrow(literally JUST got all the stuff to groom my 2 adult dogs today!)but her feet are not out right...and her back doesn’t dip, I think my black shirt was making it worse. Her back and tail go straight without me holding the head up higher. So likely posting… I have looked into CCA and have 2 studs(one being mine) who will really improve her weaknesses! My stud(the one I own) is not done growing so I have a back up boy if he doesn’t mature the way I’m hoping he continues to do. He’s a taller blocker boy(Luna is shorter(21 inches) with better ear positioning and much blocker head and a shorter body. Most of her head shots were when I was squeezing a toy so it likely made them look higher but I know she has a weakness there haha! I’ll try to stack her up a bit better after she is groomed and see if the nails being shorter help and make sure she doesn’t post too much. Thank you for your in depth response!!


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

Megora said:


> Hmm.... I'm not that crazy about the re-stack. Her front feet are a smidge forward and she's pushing off them. Her rear is slightly overstretched + I think her toes are out on the one side. She does appear high in the rear and there's more emphasis on that dip in her back - but I'm not honestly sure if she is or if it's how she is standing.
> 
> You can't really see her feet - so I'm not sure where people are seeing flat feet.
> 
> ...


















This is my little(big) guy Goose. He’s wonderfully wonderful! I can’t stack him right now as he is at classes for autism service so even if he isn’t the right stud for Lunas litter he is still “working”🙃 also, his taillooks super weird but I promise it was just the moment in which the pic was taken!


----------



## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Do you have their pedigrees?! Would love to see (or feel free to PM me if you don’t want to post it publicly)


----------



## Maddie_goldens (Aug 1, 2021)

Emmdenn said:


> Do you have their pedigrees?! Would love to see (or feel free to PM me if you don’t want to post it publicly)


For sure!not sure how that all works but can send screenshots!🤣


----------

