# does this sound right? re: ckc reg. and non-breeding contract



## newgolden (Jul 2, 2010)

Admittedly when I bought our puppy I didn't know much (still don't) about all these registration processes/non-breeding contracts, etc. All I really knew was that I was buying a puppy from a registered breeder, my dog would be registered and that I just wanted a pet not to breed my dog at any point. 

I've been looking into neutering (when, etc) and have decided that I might like to wait until he is at least 18 months. I had no idea that in the non-breeding contract it would specify when neutering should take place. Upon reading a thread here last night I checked and found there are actually 2 non-breeding contracts we signed (one from the breeder and one from the CKC). The one from the breeder says that neutering should take place *"at 6 - 9 months of age and certified proof is to be sent to us before CKC registration papers will be issued*". However on the CKC non-breeding agreement it states that "_*Canadian law requires that new owners receive their Certificate of Registration within 6 months of date of sale".*_

So what gives here? I can see that I'd be in violation if I didn't have him neutered and he sired a litter (accidentally or on purpose) but can they really withhold the registration papers if I don't have him neutered?

I know, I know...should have read the papers, etc. but I thought it was pretty basic. Buy dog, get papers but don't breed...

Any insight into this. Believe me I have no intention of breeding my dog and it's unlikely there would be an accident. Will I be able to get my puppy registered but not abide by the neutering part of the contract. Can you speak to the breeder and have the contract amended?

Thanks and please excuse my ignorance :doh:


----------



## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

I think it would be a good idea to speak to your breeder. Discuss the reasons you'd like to wait to neuter. Explain that you have no intention of using him at stud and would just like him to have the chance to mature. Having an intact male can be a bit of a challenge. If you can handle it and you both decide it's ok, then I'm sure that a paper can be drawn up to supersede the original contract.


----------



## newgolden (Jul 2, 2010)

"a bit of a challenge" ... what does that mean exactly? lol I've pretty much only read so far as delayed neutering (would that be the appropriate phrase?) can give the dog a chance to fully mature.


----------



## Stircrazy (Nov 30, 2009)

newgolden said:


> "a bit of a challenge" ... what does that mean exactly? lol I've pretty much only read so far as delayed neutering (would that be the appropriate phrase?) can give the dog a chance to fully mature.


I would do some more reading on that, 8 months 12 months 16 months are all throwen around as a good time. the best bet is to ask your breeder, mine recomended me wait till he was 8 months. the breeder knows there lines the best.

Steve


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

CarolinaCasey said:


> I think it would be a good idea to speak to your breeder. Discuss the reasons you'd like to wait to neuter. Explain that you have no intention of using him at stud and would just like him to have the chance to mature. Having an intact male can be a bit of a challenge. If you can handle it and you both decide it's ok, then I'm sure that a paper can be drawn up to supersede the original contract.


I agree with this.... 

At least, I would pay a visit to the breeder and suggest a compromise? At least ensure that your papers would not be witheld from you if you wait until 18 months. And I'd honestly be fine if she wanted to hang onto the papers until you send the proof of neutering. 

FWIW.... I had the opposite specs on my contract. My breeder said my dog was not to be neutered until he was at least 18 months, to allow him to develop properly. This was on the contract I signed, and they especially drew attention to it and discussed the health and physical benefits to waiting. 

But my one vet (at least the one who kept bringing up neutering my dog every visit that first year), on the other hand, said that the breeder's concerns were baloney. :uhoh: 

I'm assuming the reason why the breeder is witholding papers is because of people like me. Uhm. I did plan to neuter my dog per the specs on the contract. But the longer I waited, the easier it was to change my mind about that. Despite what people say, it is possible to have an intact male dog who does not have any aggression issues or any urges to breed everything in sight. Case in point, my dog was in a class last night with a female who was in heat. He completely ignored her. :curtain:

I do have have all my papers for my golden, so there was no negative effect to breaking the contract. Again, that's probably why your breeder is witholding the papers.


----------



## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

I would contact the breeder and let them know your plans, and ask about papers. They may withhold the papers simply to make sure the dogs are fixed, and may do it to you, but really, it doesn't make a lot of difference. If you want to enter a show or something before you have the papers in your hand (if the breeder is hanging on to them) then just ask for the number.

Some vets and breeders haven't read up on latest studies, and some might have had one too many 'oops' litters happen because the dogs weren't fixed. Or they figure it should be done before people forget...

Lana


----------



## newgolden (Jul 2, 2010)

yes...i'm not sure why it would matter that I have the papers or not. I guess I was just thinking it would make everything official. 

The breeder couple is very nice and approachable and so I did send him an email asking his thoughts on the topic.


----------



## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

newgolden said:


> *"a bit of a challenge"* ... what does that mean exactly? lol I've pretty much only read so far as delayed neutering (would that be the appropriate phrase?) can give the dog a chance to fully mature.


What newgolden meant was *some* intact males can be a bit of a handfull when the hormones start 
Marking outside can be a nuisance - by the time we neutered Timber, he was lifting his leg on anything and everything outside!!! That is so annoying :doh:
They may be more interested in the "ladies" than before and as well, we found that some males didn't like Timber much at that point :no:

Keep in mind that this isn't always the case as many on the forum will tell you. My last golden boy Ryder was never neutered and I never once had a problem with any of the above issues.


----------



## damita (Jun 4, 2009)

Which is why I state in my contract that reciept of "proof of spay or neuter is deemed to be final payment". I was told this was the best way to ensure that you are still within the CKC laws and providing for the best interest of your dogs. I make sure that all puppy buyers understand this and of course if they want to participate in any CKC dog events I am always willing to compromise.


----------



## DUSTYRD2 (Feb 28, 2007)

CKC requires that new owners receive the individual registration papers within 6 months of the date of purchase. PERIOD. If the breeder does not provide them, you can make a formal complaint to the CKC which will investigate and if the breeder is found guilty they will be fined and or suspended, depending on how many infractions are involved. Most reputable Canadian breeders don't even go there with this type of restrictive contract. Who wants to get tangled up with CKC and risk suspension? Most of the fines I have seen are $250 for EVERY instance. On a litter of 8 that's a lot of money.
Besides, your pup will be registered with CKC on a non-breeding contract, which means IF the dog ever did produce a litter the pups couldn't be registered with CKC. I suppose however, that doesn't stop some people breeding anyway, so the breeder is in this case is trying to make sure it doesn't happen and good for her, but I think you'll find that CKC won't see it that way.


----------



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I waited until Brady was 18 months to be bred. My US contract said I needed to wait until he was at least 12 months. He was not a challenge at all. It all depends on the dog.

My vet also tried to get me to have him neutered before 7 months, but they are looking at the point of view of too many irresponsible owners.


----------



## Stircrazy (Nov 30, 2009)

DUSTYRD2 said:


> Besides, your pup will be registered with CKC on a non-breeding contract, which means IF the dog ever did produce a litter the pups couldn't be registered with CKC.


how can you tell if your registration is a non-breeding contract? I can't find anything on my CKC that implys that it is a non breading registration.


Steve


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Stircrazy said:


> how can you tell if your registration is a non-breeding contract? I can't find anything on my CKC that implys that it is a non breading registration.
> 
> 
> Steve


I'm not sure if the CKC registration papers are the same as the AKC, but it should say something like "Limited Registration".


----------



## DUSTYRD2 (Feb 28, 2007)

It will say "Non-Breeding" as a watermark on the certificate. If it's not there then you have full registration and can breed.


----------



## Stircrazy (Nov 30, 2009)

DUSTYRD2 said:


> It will say "Non-Breeding" as a watermark on the certificate. If it's not there then you have full registration and can breed.


ok so I have a full registration, but my contract with the breeder was non breeding.... mute point anyways as he is nutered now.

Steve


----------



## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Does the CKC really enforce this?


----------

