# Looking for Input - Aggressive towards Kids.



## csibb (Mar 9, 2007)

Hi Everyone,
It has been over a year since I've been on here, I have came across some issues in the past week, and am wanting the opinions of others because I'm baffled!.
I'm a GR Breeder (as a hobby) I have 6 of my own, 2 Males, and 4 Females. I had some people purchase a pup from me last year around this time, (he was a year old August 6th, and is neutered) every couple months I try to check in with the new owners to see how the pups is doing and if he/she has adjusted ok, at 6 months old, I checked in, they said oh he is doing fine, we got a new puppy, (shitzu) and he is showing sings of food aggression, but we are working on it! I asked that they keep me informed on the situation, 3 months go by (let me add they have 3 kids 10, 7, 6) I get a phone call the dog has bitten a cousin of the kids, I ask how bad, and what had caused this, they said the dog was eating and the child walked by him, and he bit her hand, didn't break the skin or any thing. ( I would say he snapped at her) I asked if they had any obedience on the dog, and they said, well we have done the training on him, so I said well maybe you sould look into a professional trainer, as they did! I asked that they keep me informed. Well I got informed a week ago Sunday! I got a call, she says this dog just bit her middle child (a boy 7) and the gal was upset, as any mother should be! but told me my goldens were no good, they looked nice on the web-site but they are nothing but aggressive, yada, yada! So I said well explain the situation. Well the dog had been doing super, but over the weekend there was a gathering, with people, and some brought their dogs/puppies, well a 13 week old pup ran up to him while he was eating and he grabbed the pup by the head and through it, (why the food was down, or out, I have NO clue) so the next evening (Sunday) the dog was under the boys bed, the boy reached for the dog the dog bit him in the finger, (didn't break the skin). I told her, I'm sorry that this happened, but this is not because of my dogs, I have NEVER had a issue with my dogs being aggressive toward any human ever, they run loose together all the time, they are all intacted, there is a pecking order amongst my females, but NEVER have I even had a dog fight!. So I talked to her Tuesday, told her if they brought the dog back to me I'd give them half of their money back, well they were going to give him another chance, they couldn't part with him, I said ok, that is fine! Thursday I got the call, the boy had a friend over (boy 5 years old) the boy walked by the dog "while the dog was eating" and the dog bit him, this time left punctures in the boys wrist (the boy is fine) So Sunday the dog is returned, I'm not knowing what to expect! (they had also told me that he gets a real aggressive bark when he is on a leash and sees other dogs) this dog is arriving at feeding time for my own dogs, I also at this time have a 11 week old pup, a female in heat, and now a strange dog in my house! none of my dogs cared at all, they were happy to see him! He did not care at all, he was perfect! I'm looking at my husband, and he has the dog on a leash, he is looking at me and the dog is not making strange, not acting nervouse (as the gal told me he was a nervouse nellie) he was totaly content, and wanted to play with a sqweeky toy! At bed time he would not get in his crate, I had him on a leash, he faught it trying to back out of his collar (which I had a new one on him, that was tight enough he couldn't), I didn't want to grab him, not knowing him!, I called my husband down to help me, he took the dog by the collar, the dog went right in. He was telling me he was higher up then I was. (no problems since with that) He would mind the 10 year old boy and the dad, no little kids, no women. He barks at you if he can see you, (he is demanding) as of yesterday, he would bark, I'd go and wrap both hands around his muzzle, and say NO, and walk away, if he laid there quite I rewarded with hotdog, as of last night 90% better, if he was loose in the yard, (dragging two leashes, I'm to chicken yet) he ignores any commands, wants you to chase him, he ran out the drive way on Monday down the road, looking back, I ran in the drive way, and he came right behind me, now he comes to the command, and gets a piece of hotdog, he gets along great with all my dogs, he went after the chickens I said NO he quit, all I can see is he is being disobedient, and trying to rank higher then the children and woman, other then that he is perfect, he is excellent in the house, quite!! Has anyone ever dealt with anything like this?? And we are total strangers.. Here is my web-site so you can see how my dogs are! www.8milebeaglesandgoldens.4t.com any input would be greatly appreciated.. Thank You! Sorry it's a novel.

Colleen


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## nictastic (Aug 21, 2008)

Sorry i have nothing to add that can help you apart from they sound like they hadnt given the pup the time he required and obviously havent trained him.
Also wanted to say you have and breed very beautiful dogs / puppies xx


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Sounds like a resource guarding issue (food) and a lack of leadership in his home...

Am I missing something? If a dogs displays problems around food...why on earth does anyone put the dog and food and children in the same room?

Given his history, I would not rehome him in a home with children under 10-12 years old... (unfortunately he has had some effective practice dealing with children around food that he wants)....
However a home that was willing to put in some time doing some basic obedience as well take his history around food seriously would be a candidate.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

It does sound like the family isn't chock full of commonsense....

Lucky is not food agressive anymore around my family or children but he has a growl for outside family members if they walk in the kitchen. So I wouldn't assume that your puppy is ever "fixed"...I'm not sure all food agresson is based on leadership issues as Lucky is very comfortable with his "lowly" place in the family.

I would see the food issue and the "not obeying" issue as two totally different issues that need different solutions.

good luck and thank you for taking him back and giving him a chance.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

It sounds like that family doesnt know how to properly train a dog. And why would you feed a dog around little kids running around, especially if he has growled or snapped at people before. You did the right thing and hope he gets his furever home with the right family for him. Good luck with him. Sounds like you are fixing what they did wrong.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

BeauShel said:


> ... And why would you feed a dog around little kids running around, especially if he has growled or snapped at people before.


Just boggles my mind...does the family have concern for the kids even??????? Being in this situation, I can't believe they weren't motivated to take SOME precautions!


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Sounds to me like maybe they were just fishing for a way to get rid of the dog. Maybe the new little dog is "easier" and they just didn't want to bother with the Golden. 

Good luck with him - glad you were there to take him back!


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Lucky's mom said:


> Just boggles my mind...does the family have concern for the kids even??????? Being in this situation, I can't believe they weren't motivated to take SOME precautions!


There is this misconception that puppies and kids are just such a wonderful mix and that especially with Goldens, that all dogs love kids. People just assume that the dog is gonna love their darling little brats and it ain't necessarily so.


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## GoldenOwner12 (Jun 18, 2008)

sounds to me like this family didn'twant nor commited to training this dog. It sounds like they want a trained dog from the word go. They seem like the type that don't want to work with there pets. If they knew the dog was protective of its food why in the hell continue to feed it around children and strangers. It sounds like they wanted you to do all the hard work and they get the dog back once its traine. Just a question they said they did some training with the dog does this dog know how to sit,drop,stay & come if not then they haven't done a thing. I just hate it when people choose the easy way out when there is a simple problem that can be fixed with time and training. Makes you wander why they even got a dog in the first place. 

Don't put yourself down about these people if theres nothing wrong with the temperment of this dog or your other dogs the problem lies with the ex owner. Sounds like she doesn't know how to handle a dog.


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## HovawartMom (Aug 10, 2006)

Not all dogs/goldens are good with kids!.My golden who has never shown aggressivity with kids,has,also,never shown interest in them,apart from mine!.She couldn't care less and when she sees kids,she,just,moves out of the way!.I would put him with a family that has no kids and know how to train a dog!.You did the right thing,in getting him back!.For all you know,he just needs a bit of leadership cos problably,doesn't know his place and a lot of TLC!.


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## csibb (Mar 9, 2007)

Ok, in 4 days the dog has went from total leash, to dragging the leashes (2 of them) to NO leashes at all! He does know all his commands, he was just choosing not to listen, on a leash he would pull you all over,(with a flat collar) so I had mentioned to the gal, for this dog to have all this training on him I find it funny that he pulling on the leash all the time!, that i felt he needed to be on a choke chain, or even possibly a prong collar, she said her trainer did not believe in chokes or prong collars, (which I'm sure some don't) so Wednesday and Thursday, we worked on the come (with hotdogs), yesterday I put a choke chain on him, with in 15 miniutes he was doing everything I asked of him, including walking with his nose at my knee. Today he is running loose with all my dogs, I say come and he is on the run! He is wonderful!. I'm seeing with his food, I get on my knees and feed him, with a dish, and if I set the dish on the floor, and pet him he is fine, if get down by his face, and around his mouth he quits eating, as if to say, this is mine. I took the bowl away, had my arm wrapped around the outside of the dish, up by my face, (I was on my knees) and he ate out of it fine, I was petting him all over around his mouth and everything, didn't phase him, so when I have the dish it is mine, and I'm allowing him to eat, so I'm thinking he is possive of the bowl, he is fine with food on the floor! And you are all right, he will go to a family with no young kids for sure, and they will sign something stating that they have been informed, and are aware, that the dogs has had biting issues with young children. 
She said he was fine for a few months then he fell back into it, well I think they worked with the obedience for a period after the training, and thought he was cured, so they got lazy on the training, and all they were doing was letting him rank himelf higher, because they weren't taking control anymore! He needs a leader! I told her I have to re-enforce my dogs behavior all the time, I can tell when I have slacked off, because they quit listening, and act like they rule the roost. So I will spend a few months with him, and get him out amongst the world for some socialization, he will be a perfect pet for some adults that take authority.. Thanks for all the re-assurance that I wasn't in the wrong.. It is greatly appreciated!


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## csibb (Mar 9, 2007)

By the way, this is the dog on my Avatar, 2 hours after he arrived at our home.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

It is wonderful to hear how you stood behind your puppy, and welcomed him back into your house. I completely agree with LibertyME and others, that any adults crazy enough to allow instant replays of biting situations lack enough common sense to own a golden. I hope this pup finds an understanding home with a kind, steady hand, and I am sure he will.


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## Sadiesdream (Jul 11, 2008)

Honestly in my opnion the family didn't want to invest the time needed. As mentioned they wanted the easy way out of the situation. Goldens are the greatest dogs ever, very fast learners, they train with minimal training but with proper reinforcment. Theres no way they did their part in providing the pup with a good enviroment and proper care. Training is the most important thing for dogs. Training or no training can make or break a dog. Just sadly this pup wasn't ever given the chance. So I'm glad you have your goldie back and great to see just how much progress has been achieved. Do you plan to rehome him/her? I'd be really interested if you planned on it.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

I'm glad Hunter's doing well and no one got seriously bitten.

That said, I imagine the previous owners of this dog would tell a rather different story. 
It seems that they got a rather dominant dog with serious resource guarding issues and never quite figured out how to deal with it in the context of a busy household.

They did some dumb things, for sure. And they may have been lax in their training. But which dog owner hasn't been guilty of this? 

It's great that Colleen more than lived up to the guarantee and took Hunter back, but an even happier ending would have been for everyone to have taken this situation more seriously earlier on and helped the family learn to control this dog. 

A dog that's well past the mouthy puppy stage "bit" three different people without provocation (from the human point of view) and went after another dog, including three incidents in one week. This doesn't strike me as "normal" behavior and it's not like the family just freaked out and returned the dog after one nip. 

My question in all of this is what advice the owners were given by the breeder and by the trainer. 
The owners must have worked with Hunter some (since the dog knew his commands when he felt inclined to listen.) 

It seems likely to me that they got some bad advice either in terms of how to deal with the resource guarding (was this just a sit/stay/come trainer or an actual behaviorist?) or no one really impressed upon them just how serious the situation is ("you have to get this dog to stop this resource guarding and continue to be vigilant or he will bite someone again and you're going to have a trip to the emergency room, maybe a lawsuit, and have to get rid of the dog.")

Sounds like a job for the Dog Whisperer. ("Choo mus be the alpha dog in the pack...") Just kidding.

best
Allen

P.S. Colleen--Those are really beautiful dogs and I especially like seeing the before-and-after puppy pics, which is something I don't recall seeing on other sites. And with your reasonable prices, even if you include shipping, I can't imagine why anyone would ever buy a golden (or a beagle) from a pet shop.


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