# About Turns



## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

I don’t really have a question unless someone has had the same issue and has some spectacular tips. I think the answer is just practice a bazillion times on my own until the footwork is just natural.

Anyhoo — I have as much rhythm as Elaine on Seinfeld dancing when I do about turns. I think every time I do one it looks different to Logan. 

That is all. 😬🤪


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Just focus on keeping your feet under you and you will be fine.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

Megora said:


> Just focus on keeping your feet under you and you will be fine.


Yeah, I think I’m taking a bigger step than it feels like as I initiate my turn. It’s weird how something so simple can be difficult. We do great with other elements of heeling and our figure 8s.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Almost every really good obedience person practices heeling without their dog. Work on your footwork just like you would a dance or another sport.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

She's right, work with a pretend dog  and it helps,also practice with music or a metronome app on your phone. You have my sympathy though, heeling footwork is not my strength either....


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

ArkansasGold said:


> Almost every really good obedience person practices heeling without their dog. Work on your footwork just like you would a dance or another sport.


I will think sport since I literally dance like Elaine. 😅

I practiced on my own regularly for my last obedience school. I think in the four month break I stopped and just hadn’t started that back. I will.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

nolefan said:


> She's right, work with a pretend dog  and it helps,also practice with music or a metronome app on your phone. You have my sympathy though, heeling footwork is not my strength either....


My instructor was counting off a number pattern today as I was heeling. A metronome app is a good idea. I will try that.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

diane0905 said:


> My instructor was counting off a number pattern today as I was heeling. A metronome app is a good idea. I will try that.


Most of the people I know who are very serious about heeling - and it shows with their dogs, they have heeling music. And that's what they practice to, etc. <= I'm not kidding.  Been to a few group classes where people are literally having a group powow about what music to use, and or if they just use a metronome app.... 

The lady I trained with would always blast "Pretty Woman" for me... if you pay attention to the walking beat in that song. That's the beat she wanted me to heel to. But my preference and what I have playing in my head when practicing heeling or even when I'm in the ring is "fast and run" (nico staf) - which is a much faster clip.


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## PalouseDogs (Aug 14, 2013)

I am such a klutz. I gave up on thinking about my feet and now just think about head and shoulders. Where the head goes, the feets follow.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Diane, the first time I entered a dog in obedience (UKC and 50+ years ago) the judge asked me if I had actually read the rules and practiced my about turns.... I went the wrong way, etc... her sweet query as to whether I'd read the rules and practiced has never left my memory.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

Prism Goldens said:


> Diane, the first time I entered a dog in obedience (UKC and 50+ years ago) the judge asked me if I had actually read the rules and practiced my about turns.... I went the wrong way, etc... her sweet query as to whether I'd read the rules and practiced has never left my memory.


Ha,ha — when I first joined Dog Trainer’s Workshop, one of the trainers asked me that question. At that point, we had thrown ourselves into the frying pan and gone from zero competition obedience classes to one where they were doing Open exercises. Logan was so much younger and zero experienced compared to the other dogs. I wanted to say, “Lady, I know nothing.”  

FWIW, that lady was a person I consider the harshest trainer I’ve ever had and she also was so very good at explaining things. I totally got what she said when she described details as to what I should be doing. It was like Stockholm’s Syndrome in a way — I think she was my favorite. Lol Anyway, she told me a long time ago to practice my footwork by myself, so this is on me. When class was canceled, I think I shut down for a bit and forgot her directive in the about turns department.

I just did my first wrong way turn for an about turn last week in class. It’s like my body didn’t do what I thought my brain was willing it to do. Lol


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

PalouseDogs said:


> I am such a klutz. I gave up on thinking about my feet and now just think about head and shoulders. Where the head goes, the feets follow.


My trainer just told me this last class to think more about turning my upper body like I would naturally to make a turn and not to focus on the footwork so much. I can relate to klutz. My daughter took dance most of her young life and is so balanced and graceful. I played softball.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

Megora said:


> Most of the people I know who are very serious about heeling - and it shows with their dogs, they have heeling music. And that's what they practice to, etc. <= I'm not kidding.  Been to a few group classes where people are literally having a group powow about what music to use, and or if they just use a metronome app....
> 
> The lady I trained with would always blast "Pretty Woman" for me... if you pay attention to the walking beat in that song. That's the beat she wanted me to heel to. But my preference and what I have playing in my head when practicing heeling or even when I'm in the ring is "fast and run" (nico staf) - which is a much faster clip.


The last time I used music for something was for a fitness competition preparation. It was more motivational (You Get What You Give/The New Radicals) than for a beat though — more of a be in the right headspace musical motivation. I listened to that for my crack of dawn Pre-breakfast walks.

I come across Janice Gunn sometimes when I’m googling to watch people heel. Maybe I have the wrong attitude because I feel I can’t even aspire to heeling looking like that.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

You get a few steps to execute turns/halts once the judge calls it. I work on my cues to Eevee more so than the actual footwork and most of that is upper body related. I just HATE when a judge practically runs you into the gate before calling the next thing in the pattern. I may or may not have started a few turns a little early before to keep my cues intact. 😆 I have long legs and I walk fast, so when I get literally 2-ft or less between me and the gate when I get the instruction from the judge, it’s hard to turn and make sure Eevee knows what’s happening at the same time.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

ArkansasGold said:


> You get a few steps to execute turns/halts once the judge calls it. I work on my cues to Eevee more so than the actual footwork and most of that is upper body related. I just HATE when a judge practically runs you into the gate before calling the next thing in the pattern. I may or may not have started a few turns a little early before to keep my cues intact. 😆 I have long legs and I walk fast, so when I get literally 2-ft or less between me and the gate when I get the instruction from the judge, it’s hard to turn and make sure Eevee knows what’s happening at the same time.


My instructor reminded me yesterday I do not have to immediately halt — I have a couple of steps. I figure a judge could literally run me into a wall before I notice it’s happening (haha), although one time the Army drill sergeant lady I mentioned above was calling a pattern behind me and yelled “LEFT TURN!” and I stopped myself from literally walking into the wall. I said, “I can’t” and she got so tickled she had to stop for a minute. 🤣

Apparently, when I do about turns I’m taking quite a step as I go to turn. It doesn’t feel like it to me, but she showed me what I was doing and said Logan is trying so hard to stay with me, but I’m leaving him behind on the turn with my big step and then he tries to play catch up and gets a little ahead of me for a minute. I must really be a klutz because I literally cannot feel myself taking a longer step there. The instructor was giving me a (nice) blank stare like, “How can you not know/feel you are doing that?” 

The only positive thing I can say about myself is I tend to do better when it’s sink or swim time. When we attempted our WC recently, I was amazed at how calm and collected I was — even when Logan took a little detour for live ducks in a crate. Lol The judges were quite nice about letting me in real time work with him to make sure he brought the duck back to hand. Brian says he saw the gunner rise up out of the blind right as Logan came by, but I didn’t see that in my “Do or die” moment. I need to check the video. I think it was the lure of the quacking. Haha

Edit: Oh - and I also think our current instructor either thinks we have promise or is really feeling like I need a pep talk. Haha. She told me once Logan and I get going in competition I’m going to see things progressing more quickly because Logan is going to be a very good obedience dog. I should have hired a handler. Haha


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

When I was a kid, I was in marching band. I will still go into that mode of don't turn your shoulders, sharp turns thing. Just how I had trained my brain for competition! For an about turn I still do the "t" shape with my feet. Old habits are hard to break! I had a private instructor before the pandemic who once asked me if I ever turn my shoulders when I'm at the store. Turns out I don't! LOL So now I work on that a lot just for the muscle memory. Next time you go to the grocery store, pay attention! Make sure you are turning your shoulders! 

I do have some issues that aren't anything I can help at the time. I'm just hoping the doctors don't blame obedience for them!


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

DevWind said:


> When I was a kid, I was in marching band. I will still go into that mode of don't turn your shoulders, sharp turns thing. Just how I had trained my brain for competition! For an about turn I still do the "t" shape with my feet. Old habits are hard to break! I had a private instructor before the pandemic who once asked me if I ever turn my shoulders when I'm at the store. Turns out I don't! LOL So now I work on that a lot just for the muscle memory. Next time you go to the grocery store, pay attention! Make sure you are turning your shoulders!
> 
> I do have some issues that aren't anything I can help at the time. I'm just hoping the doctors don't blame obedience for them!


The t-shape is what I was taught and have been attempting. It’s very awkward for me. I teeter. Lolol


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I think you will find that most judges are nice - and have a sense of humor. 

I showed to DevWind's breeder last weekend and she cracked a lot of us up when she showed us the pattern and mentioned that it was adjusted for the ring and that if she called a left turn (by mistake), that we should ignore her and turn right.  

I have had judges get lost or be unprepared for how fast I go in the ring (see my reference above to the fast beat I heel to), especially the fast pace - and they've had to adjust their patterns to get the turns and halts in. That can be why you sometimes end up at a gate or somewhere else before the judge calls something.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Megora said:


> I think you will find that most judges are nice - and have a sense of humor.
> 
> I showed to DevWind's breeder last weekend and she cracked a lot of us up when she showed us the pattern and mentioned that it was adjusted for the ring and that if she called a left turn (by mistake), that we should ignore her and turn right.
> 
> I have had judges get lost or be unprepared for how fast I go in the ring (see my reference above to the fast beat I heel to), especially the fast pace - and they've had to adjust their patterns to get the turns and halts in. That can be why you sometimes end up at a gate or somewhere else before the judge calls something.


I train with her as well. She is a very fair judge...if she took points off, it was for a reason and she's happy to explain why if you ask. I don't show to her because Pilot loses his mind if she's in the ring.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

diane0905 said:


> The t-shape is what I was taught and have been attempting. It’s very awkward for me. I teeter. Lolol


It helps to learn it when you're young and able I guess.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

DevWind said:


> I train with her as well. She is a very fair judge...if she took points off, it was for a reason and she's happy to explain why if you ask. I don't show to her because Pilot loses his mind if she's in the ring.


One thing she did out there that I loved and I wished ALL judges would do, including at fun matches. She had us carry the dumbbell into the ring with us and place on a chair outside the ring near the spot we'd be doing the retrieves. Was very smooth transition + there was no vague concern about my dog losing his little mind over a judge carrying his dumbbell to us. 

We would have scored high 190's if I had not spazzed on having to rethrow the dumbbell (first time I had to in competition). Was trying to avoid throwing the thing straight out of the ring a second time and it landed with a plop right at the min distance beyond the jump. Should be fine with practice if I _had _practiced short throws.... 🥴 But I'm typically throwing the dumbbell out as FAR as it will go to give my dog plenty of space to pick up, turn around, and come back for the middle of the jump. Jovi just did not have enough room to focus on the jump and return over. The flipside of that was the fact he lost very few points beyond that snafu. Just 3 points between heeling and I think him nosing my hand on each finish. Just one more thing to practice or work through. 

(with Glee she said he's out of control - which made me laugh and treasure that Q a little extra. 😅 He's one of those dogs where if I praise him too happy and don't maintain my calm and quiet with him, he can't keep all 4 feet on the ground). I was very happy with his front and finish and praised him a bit too much and he lost an extra point on being out of control with 5 foot aerial leaps.....)


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

Megora said:


> I think you will find that most judges are nice - and have a sense of humor.
> 
> I showed to DevWind's breeder last weekend and she cracked a lot of us up when she showed us the pattern and mentioned that it was adjusted for the ring and that if she called a left turn (by mistake), that we should ignore her and turn right.
> 
> I have had judges get lost or be unprepared for how fast I go in the ring (see my reference above to the fast beat I heel to), especially the fast pace - and they've had to adjust their patterns to get the turns and halts in. That can be why you sometimes end up at a gate or somewhere else before the judge calls something.


I listened to your techno jam. My son would like that a lot.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

Megora said:


> (with Glee she said he's out of control - which made me laugh and treasure that Q a little extra. 😅 He's one of those dogs where if I praise him too happy and don't maintain my calm and quiet with him, he can't keep all 4 feet on the ground). I was very happy with his front and finish and praised him a bit too much and he lost an extra point on being out of control with 5 foot aerial leaps.....)


Sounds like Logan. He mostly will get a bit excited when a woman does baby talk to him over the top. I ran into my first man to do that today. It was an elderly man in the neighborhood — he was walking with his nurse/caregiver. He came up talking to Logan non-stop excited and sounded like Mickey Mouse. Lol He was definitely in his 80s. Logan was trying so hard to hold his sit and I reached for his collar when he finally got up and sat his bottom again. The man said, “Oh. He got out of his sit.” 🙃


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)




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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

SRW said:


>


Ha — I could take my iPhone and blast that out for our first obedience show.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Megora said:


> One thing she did out there that I loved and I wished ALL judges would do, including at fun matches. She had us carry the dumbbell into the ring with us and place on a chair outside the ring near the spot we'd be doing the retrieves. Was very smooth transition + there was no vague concern about my dog losing his little mind over a judge carrying his dumbbell to us.
> 
> We would have scored high 190's if I had not spazzed on having to rethrow the dumbbell (first time I had to in competition). Was trying to avoid throwing the thing straight out of the ring a second time and it landed with a plop right at the min distance beyond the jump. Should be fine with practice if I _had _practiced short throws.... 🥴 But I'm typically throwing the dumbbell out as FAR as it will go to give my dog plenty of space to pick up, turn around, and come back for the middle of the jump. Jovi just did not have enough room to focus on the jump and return over. The flipside of that was the fact he lost very few points beyond that snafu. Just 3 points between heeling and I think him nosing my hand on each finish. Just one more thing to practice or work through.
> 
> (with Glee she said he's out of control - which made me laugh and treasure that Q a little extra. 😅 He's one of those dogs where if I praise him too happy and don't maintain my calm and quiet with him, he can't keep all 4 feet on the ground). I was very happy with his front and finish and praised him a bit too much and he lost an extra point on being out of control with 5 foot aerial leaps.....)


We all spaz out from time to time!  Sounds like you had a good trial. I'll have to ask her if her ears were burning. LOL


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

SRW said:


>


I love that song!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

DevWind said:


> I love that song!


So - I literally listened and thought that the start of the song is actually a pretty good speed to have in mind when you are starting to gait in conformation where you are literally walking 1-3 steps before bumping up the speed slightly. LOL.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

I've always found that ABBA songs are a good tempo (and always put me in a happy mood)! 😁 Take a Chance on Me and Dancing Queen are particular favorites!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

In case any random onlookers are getting funny ideas about what we do in obedience trials.... the music is just for finding the right speed/cadence when heeling with your dog. Depending on the breed + their actual speed/movement, you'll have some people pick something that helps them maintain a steady speed (normal pace). It all kinda goes into footwork (footfalls?) while training - we obv empty pockets and leave everything behind at our setups when we go into the ring, no music playing. All this discussion re music and turning the music on when training and practicing to that is all muscle memory for both you and the dog. <= My best translation of what I've heard from my instructors who wanted to get me to stick with a steady -0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 pace instead of a -0-0-0000-0-0-00000-0000-0000 (me zipping around the posts with the figure 8's LOL - imagine those 0's are footfalls).

Another song I've used is uptown girl - that's what I had in my head with my Jacks and it works with Jovi who feels the same when heeling.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Get some chalk and draw lines on the pavement. One long straight line and cross lines say every 3' or so. As mentioned above get a metronome downloaded onto your phone and let it play while you walk.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

I practiced today on my own with music and then with Logan. Music is helpful. I think we had a bit more pep and I could make that turn better with a beat. I also focused on keeping my feet right under me as I turned like Kate suggested. That was helpful also. Thank y’all. I haven’t tried a metronome yet, but will.


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## Jerryd56 (3 mo ago)

I taught Karate for many years and my daughter was a great dancer. The trick to spins, or turns is look at the horizon, never down you will move forward and never up because you will fall back...
Watch good dancers when they turn or spin, they keep their eyes level to the horizon at all times....


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Jerryd56 said:


> I taught Karate for many years and my daughter was a great dancer. The trick to spins, or turns is look at the horizon, never down you will move forward and never up because you will fall back...
> Watch good dancers when they turn or spin, they keep their eyes level to the horizon at all times....


I look down at where my dogs head should be.


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## rockcp21 (Dec 29, 2011)

diane0905 said:


> Yeah, I think I’m taking a bigger step than it feels like as I initiate my turn. It’s weird how something so simple can be difficult. We do great with other elements of heeling and our figure 8s.


I still do the T-turn for about turns. that's what was taught 21 years ago when i began obedience training. I've tried the new about turns that our teachers have been doing & teaching, these seem to really get me off balance, my muscle memory instinctly does the T-turn, especially when i get nervous at a trial.😊 No points are deducted if you do the old fashion T-turn correctly.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

rockcp21 said:


> I still do the T-turn for about turns. that's what was taught 21 years ago when i began obedience training. I've tried the new about turns that our teachers have been doing & teaching, these seem to really get me off balance, my muscle memory instinctly does the T-turn, especially when i get nervous at a trial.😊 No points are deducted if you do the old fashion T-turn correctly.


I am practicing a lot now. I think once it becomes instinctual things will be much better. Thank you.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

Jerryd56 said:


> I taught Karate for many years and my daughter was a great dancer. The trick to spins, or turns is look at the horizon, never down you will move forward and never up because you will fall back...
> Watch good dancers when they turn or spin, they keep their eyes level to the horizon at all times....


Thanks. My instructors said for heeling in general to find a spot on the opposite wall straight ahead and look at that so I don’t walk an angled line — which is what a lot of new people do, according to her. My daughter is also a very good dancer and I’m sure she could do it with ease. I should have opted for dancing instead of softball. 😅


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

rockcp21 said:


> No points are deducted if you do the old fashion T-turn correctly.


Depends on your dog and heelwork. 

You are not judged on the footwork. You are judged on whether the judge sees a lag or wide on the abouts, etc. 

Reason why people started playing around with footwork, etc... these came from 200 score trainers who were sharing tips on how to really cue up the dogs better on all the turns, changes of pace, etc. 

It never stuck with me - which is why I follow the much simpler (keep your feet under you) rule. Many of us who have long strides do not realize that an automatic pivot usually has a leg either stepping into the dog's path or blocking him. The old T turn was to train people to keep the footwork tight and clean. <- The stuff beyond that was intended to do the same + cue up the dog better. 

Lady I trained with said your eyes/eye movement even is a cue that the dog picks up.


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