# Cesar Millan



## Michelle Laurette (Apr 1, 2007)

I caught the Cesar Millan show on National Geographic last night. I know that not everyone likes him but I agree with his philosophy: dogs are animals, need discipline, structure, order first and then love and affection. I want to make sure that my GR is aware that I am pack leader, all the time, not her. 

I've only had Collette for a month and so far it's ok, there's progress but there's room for improvement. In the house, she is very submissive and obedient. Outside, she thinks she's taking me for a walk and she doesn't come when called. We are working on that but I think Cesar's methods are great. Soon enough, I'll have Collette walking beside me not in front and I'll only have to whistle and she'll come back from the being off lease in the dog park. That's the plan anyway.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

I think thats a great plan! I, too, like Cesar and agree with his methods and values. Anyone that can take a pack of dogs out for a 3 hour walk in the hills without leads gets my vote! I wouldn't attempt 2 or 3 dogs let alone a whole pack! 

Jazzys Mom


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I can do that, and I don't like him at all LOL


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## VR4Dani (Apr 13, 2007)

So I'm curious, why don't some people like his methods? Is there a link to a poll thread or anything that has been done in the past?


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## jessme7 (May 29, 2006)

I love Ceasar. I have watched most of his shows and have read his book. I also took my pups to a obedience class that followed the pack leader theory. I totally support his methods, because they are canines and are pack animals.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

While some of his concepts sound nice- dogs certainly need structure and to know what is expected of them- I think the obsession with dominance is completely incorrect. If you know how to read a dog's body language, some of the things he does to dogs on TV will disturb you- for example "flooding" a terrified dog.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Do you mean by flooding, when he takes a dog into his own pack and its scared at first? Overwhelming the dog?

jazzys Mom


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

This is very old ground that has been plowed many times in the past... just do a forum search to see what I mean.


So here's a brief synopsis of past threads... I WORSHIP THE GUY AND SUBSCRIBE TO HIS PHILOSOPHIES!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Forcing an absolutely terrified dog that is flipping out with mortal fear to go face to face with whatever is scaring it is known as flooding.

While I ignore fear behavior in my dogs, and I never coddle them for it, I disagree with this practice. 

I prefer positive training for such situations, personally.

For example, if I had a dog that was terrified of water, I would not throw him into a swimming pool. I would take him to the beach on a hot, hot day and wade into the water myself a few feet, sit down, and let him come in on his own time.


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## Michelle Laurette (Apr 1, 2007)

I agree that flooding (new term to me) is not always the right approach but I do think that well balanced and obedient dogs are a good influence on other dogs. They socialize each other. I think that's what's happening Cesar's dog yard. Collette is being positively influenced by some dogs in the dog park. She comes back to me after some roughhousing play when she sees the other dog go back to its owner. I think she's getting the idea from the other dog. They socialize each other, show each other how to interact positively within a pack.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

That is true, no matter what method you use


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Agreed on that one! I would be much more inclined to coax the dog into the water as opposed to throwing it in. In fact I had a lab pointer cross some years ago that loved the water and as soon as the car doog opened at the lake he bolted for the pier and would jump right in. Well, one day it had been raining when we arrived and Brandy bolted out of the car as usual and when he got to the pier it was slippery from the rain and he couldn't stop. Skidded all the way across and off the end. Scared him to death! While he would jump in by himself it scared him to bo so out of control of the situation. That was in the spring. All summer (we were there every weekend as we had a summer place there) he would go just to the edge of the pier, tremble and run back. Wouldn't even go in the water from the beach area. We spent the whole summer coaxing him onto the pier a little further each time and then us getting in the water and calling him. Finally, by summer's end he was back in the water. I would NEVER have just thrown him back in as scared as he was.

Jazzys Mom


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Yup, to me that's animal cruelty. And even if you don't care about being cruel, it rarely works anyway!!! It's a great way to make a minor fear become a horrible, incureable one.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Yes Michelle, while that is very true ---- and thats what Cesar's pack does with the new dogs, you have to have well balanced dogs in the pack to begin with. Then they will influence the new, unbalanced dog. If, in a dog park situation, you have part well balanced dogs and some not so well balanced then you have problems. How do you tell, just by seeing the dogs for a short time, who is the troublemaker?

Jazzys Mom


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Yup, to me that's animal cruelty. And even if you don't care about being cruel, it rarely works anyway!!! It's a great way to make a minor fear become a horrible, incureable one.


 
Amen to that!

Jazzys Mom


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## Michelle Laurette (Apr 1, 2007)

True enough. I have to rely on people and dogs I know and trust. I noticed that Collette is also influencing other dogs positively. She isn't a jumper, at all, and she's made friends with a black lab that is. Well this dog used to jump on people when greeting them, and the owner told me that after spending time with calm Collette every day for the last few weeks, he doesn't jump anymore. He swears he hasn't done anything differently, in fact, he had given up on trying to change this behaviour because he thought it was cute (ugh!). I'm just glad that I don't get his dirty, muddy paws on me anymore and the two dogs get along so well.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I have always had a large pack of dogs- three is the fewest I have EVER had in my adult life. They certainly do influence eachother. Even when I had ten or so at a time in the house, they always got along. Nobody was separated, even "problem dogs" that got dumped on me because of being "dog aggressive" and so forth. Rigby is my alpha dog, and nobody crosses him. His excellent behavior is a positive influence, as the lesser dogs always follow him.


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## KatzNK9 (Feb 27, 2007)

I'm also a BIG FAN of Cesar ... but there are a few of his methods that I don't like at all & wouldn't personally consider using. I believe his approach to dogs & the stance he takes with his body language when approaching dogs IS AMAZING and I've incorporated all of those things to training my own dog and others who run free in the neighborhood.

Cesar has saved the lives of countless dogs through his love for dogs. For that fact alone, there are few humans in this world that can top that on my "score card". Like his methods or not, you can't argue with that if you're a animal lover.

Recently, I had great success ... turned on "my internal Cesar" with a young staffie mix bitch charging toward me & Ozzy while walking down the street toward my idiot neighbors FIVE PUPPIES running free in the neighborhood (they just refuse to take reasonable steps to keep them in their yard but that's another story). The staffie mix is a young dog (probably 10 months) and isn't showing any immediate signs of aggression but the rate she was charging, I knew I needed to take action.

I told Ozzy to "stand" / "stay" (I didn't want him in a submissive position) & I moved toward the end of my leash away from him & toward the charging dog & did my best "Cesar stance" & said "chhhhhhhh" while pointing directly at her. She immediately froze & showed submission. So, I took another step toward her & "chhhhhhhh" again & she turned away & retreated.

That gave me enough time to get Ozzy in the house (were were only next door but out in the street).

Of course, by the time I got him inside & came back out with only my leash in hand this time, she had returned & was heading straight toward these 4 month old pups trashing their owner's front yard while they were at work.







(serves them right, those idiots).

I'm one of those people who has NO FEAR of any dog (yes, I've been bitten a few times in years past but still don't learn & will approach any dog, anywhere especially if there's some potential of danger to any animal).

Anyway, long story short, I was able to keep the peace between this overly interested staffie mix & these 5 pups long enough to gain her trust & let her know I was in charge, get her on leash & have her sit quietly while tied to the idiot neighbor's fence long enough to get all 5 pups back inside their back yard & secured & then returned her home to her owner (what a "nice" little chat we had ... again, another story ... LOL).

Without being a Dog Whisperer addict, I never would have accomplished that (certainly not in a matter of a few minutes). I've also got his book & have read it twice.

So, I went back to get Ozzy to continue our walk ... my good deed was done ... now back to work on Ozzy's obedience training.









Well, turns out, I was the "matinee" for several of the neighbors who had been watching me & had been keeping an eye on those pups (everybody on the street has been worried about them). All of a sudden, it was "meet the neighbors day" on my street. (Honestly, I prefer keeping to myself & I'm a big believer in fences make good neighbors & have lived that for 7 years here.)

One by one, they came out & talked to me about how amazing that was & how quickly I got things under control. Wow, they've been thinking about trying to do something about those pups ... DUH ... but they never left their houses until then. Turns out, they watch me working with Ozzy & are sooooooo amazed at how good he is & all his training ... yada, yada, yada ... so I brought them brochures from my dog obedience school to see how many I can get signed up. So, I'm the hit of the neighborhood ... LOL, geeeeeeewhiz ... if they'd only get the hint that all I want to do is walk my dog in peace.

Anyway, that's my tale of what Cesar has taught me that I've actually been able to put into practice in the real dog world.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I'm glad it worked for you- truly I am.

That's nothing I haven't done, though, without any influence from CM. All I am saying is I do not, and will never, agree with much of what he does. There is more than one way to have that type of communication with a dog. Clearly you have the ability that so many lack!


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

I absolutely hate many of the approaches he has to dog training, so much infact that I find it hard to watch...(so for the main part, I don't) but I had heard of him many times on US based forums so I tuned in a few times...man, I was shocked that they were showing things like that to he general public...I find his some of his methods incredibly dangerous and wouldnt let him within a million miles of my dogs. I have seen a few episodes and each time he jumps to a negative, punititive approach...it is his whole 'show the dog whos boss' philosophy that I hate...on one episode there was this little chihuahua that nipped people when they sat on the sofa...so his one and only solution was to pin the dog on its side until it stopped struggling...the poor little thing was gasping and was VERY distressed...but hey, as long as it KNOWS you are 'pack leader' then thats ok...hmmmm...regardless of the fact that someone attempting that with a bigger dog would be at risk of losing their face...On every other show I have seen he will constantly pull down hard on the collar (even with a prong or choke chain) to get the dog to stop doing something nevermind how distressed the dog is, I really was shocked to see this on tv. Training methods like that pretty much went out with the ark in the uk...(well, probably about 25 years ago) the whole 'dominance' thing is what he seems to base his training on and it is something I just do not believe. Dogs know people are not dogs (they know a cat is not a dog, they know a human is not a dog) so trying to apply canine rules in a human/dog relationship is totally flawed IMHO. I believe you get aggresive dogs, I believe you get untrained dogs but I don't believe you get a dog that is trying to be 'dominant' over a human...and I feel that is what CM's training is based on so I suppose I will never really appreciate what he does.

(I know he is a celeb and has a lot of fans, but that is just my humble opinion...)


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## Ronna (Mar 24, 2007)

I certainly have watched his program and at first was really impressed with the control he seemed to have over any dog. Then I felt sort of bad that I had owned dogs all of my life and was no where close to being anything like Cesar and never will be. It wouldn't matter if I watched every video or book ever written, I am who I am when it comes to my pets.

I enjoy animals and try my best to give them all a great loving home, but it is far from an obsession to me to train a dog to be like a puppet I think they are all different and the owner should try to access what they are and work with the positives. 

It is great that they are bringing programs on like Cesar's because it will probably save a few "troubled dogs" from being destroyed.

This is my opinion and I thought I should share

Ronna
owner of Karlie (14 weeks)
Dallie (3 years)

Amanda-we sure miss you lots!

Cats
Snuks & Scooby


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Forcing an absolutely terrified dog that is flipping out with mortal fear to go face to face with whatever is scaring it is known as flooding.
> 
> While I ignore fear behavior in my dogs, and I never coddle them for it, I disagree with this practice.
> 
> ...


I like Cesar, watch his show and own one of his books. BUT, I have to agree with you about the flooding technique, why not do desensitization over a period of time instead. I really do agree with you on that point.

Having said that, I do think he has helped many dogs and I do like much of his advice in regards to walking daily and exercising out the excess energy that causes some dogs to act out inside the home, etc.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Ronna said:


> I certainly have watched his program and at first was really impressed with the control he seemed to have over any dog. Then I felt sort of bad that I had owned dogs all of my life and was no where close to being anything like Cesar and never will be. It wouldn't matter if I watched every video or book ever written, I am who I am when it comes to my pets.
> 
> I enjoy animals and try my best to give them all a great loving home, but it is far from an obsession to me to train a dog to be like a puppet I think they are all different and the owner should try to access what they are and work with the positives.
> 
> ...


I know what you mean Ronna. I try to tell myself that my dog doesn't have to perfect like a robot (and he isn't, LOL) but we do the best we can. I work on the behaviors that I feel are troublesome, such as the countersurfing he used to as a pup. I've also worked very hard at getting him to heel on walks, which is now, FINALLY, something he does. But, it's been a lot of work (the heeling) and it didn't happen in 30 minutes like it does on the show!

I can live with some of his hijinks, such as stealing a paper towel every now and then off the coffee table.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Tilly's Mom, thanks for saying what I wanted to LOL


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> I'm glad it worked for you- truly I am.
> 
> That's nothing I haven't done, though, without any influence from CM. All I am saying is I do not, and will never, agree with much of what he does. There is more than one way to have that type of communication with a dog. Clearly you have the ability that so many lack!


True. But not everyone has your natural instincts to be a great pack leader and dog owner. I think many of the people he has worked with clearly could not do it on their own, at least they weren't anyway.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I DO agree with the exercise... every day every dog should get hard off leash exercise IMO. That happens in the UK, and which is maybe one reason many people in the UK do not need to resort to CM style training. JMO, and I'm not British...


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## HovawartMom (Aug 10, 2006)

I think that all trainers have some good and some bad.No-one is perfect but he does make some good points.A dog is a pack animal and they need exercise and socialization before food and love.
An exercised dog is a happy dog.


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> JMO, and I'm not British...


 Are you sure? I think you are a brit disguised as a Floridian (is that a word?) 

I DO agree with what he says about exercise being VERY important...totally agree, but I honestly thought this went without saying that a dog needs a lot of exercise? I cant imagine ANY dog owner not knowing this? (some of my friends who have hardly any interest in dogs know that dogs need free running and 2 or 3 walks a day...) It suprised me that many people on his show needed telling...?
I saw one of his programmes where he put a dog on a tredmill...that was one of the most depressing things I have ever seen...this poor dog pounding away on a piece of gym equipment...wow


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Welcome to America... where most dogs rot in backyards (gardens) without any exercise on a leash. The average American dog (maybe not on this forum, but... in general) never sees a leash unless he's going to the vet.

I guess you Brits rubbed off on me 

BTW I'm going back late this year or early next year... I need some Euro culture before I explode  and C's never been.


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

Oh where are you going? do you have it planned out yet? Are you going round Europe?Have you been to Barcelona before? (I love that crazy place)...you can get some very cheap flights from the UK all over Europe...(we went to Amsterdam for, like, £19)

I do believe that things are generally different between countries...infact in some european countries Rescue dogs are still INCREDIBLY rare...like, one small rehoming centre for entire cities...and in those countries neutering and spaying is rare too...so they really must be doing something right!! (I believe there was uproar in Sweden when Neutering was made legal not all that long ago...) I think there are just whole different attitudes to dog ownership. My friend Rachel comes over to the UK often and she has commented many times on the differences she see's from where she lives in New Jersey...mainly the lack of roaming dogs and the way that people are able to walk their dogs over here.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Oh yes, every word of that is the truth!!!!

We will be staying in Basingstoke with my ex husband- HA! But we'll be going all 'round England! I have been to much of Europe when I lived there, but C has seen none of it! 

I might have to come to Yorkshire and hug Tilly!!! I'll need a GR fix! The plan is NOT to bring my dog, though I may go ahead and do so!  He's got his rabies jabs and his microchips.


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## HovawartMom (Aug 10, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Welcome to America... where most dogs rot in backyards (gardens) without any exercise on a leash. The average American dog (maybe not on this forum, but... in general) never sees a leash unless he's going to the vet.
> 
> I guess you Brits rubbed off on me
> I so agree with you.
> ...


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## MoesGoldens (Apr 13, 2007)

I love him too, living with 5 GRs ranging in age from 4 months to 3-1/2 years it can be trying at times and I keep telling myself "calm and assertive" and it helps when Maggie is jumping on the back of the couch and Sammie, who is new and an ex-kennel dog who is learning to be a family member, wont settle. Usually worse when I get home from work but only for a couple minutes then they all settle and we play ball for an hour, lol.


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

I like to watch him (he's cute too :smooch: ) and his advice _"no touch, no talk, no eye contact"_ really worked with Biscuit jumping on people who came into the house. I have a small daycare and he would get hyped up when the parents and kids came thru the door so one afternoon I asked one of the mothers to do the _"no touch, no talk, no eye contact"_ and we were both totally* amazed *when it worked immediately. After that I would instruct everyone to do the same and I no longer had a jumping problem with Biscuit. Now he still greets everyone but he prances back and forth around them with something in his mouth--he gets lots of pats and praises when he's greeting in this way.

I also find that his _"ccssshhhhttt"_ sound works really well to get Biscuit's attention from across the room if I need to.


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## KatzNK9 (Feb 27, 2007)

Jumping back in here ... I too completely disagree with the "flooding" technique that he sometimes uses on extreme problem dogs. I personally do not see the merit in that technique but will admit it probably works with "some" dogs in certain situations.

What I like most about Cesar is his ability to "read" a dog's body language, his focus on exercise, his "calm-assertive" stance when approaching new dogs, his "no touch, no talk, no eye-contact" is solid advice when approaching many types of dogs. I also like his approach to people & helping bring out their confidence level when working with their dogs.

My biggest two complaints with him is his lack of focus on structured obedience training & his quickness to resort to "flooding" (I think it is unnecessary & irresponsible in MOST cases).

I think the best advice for all who work with dogs is to try to learn as many proven techniques from as many sources as possible. Then, discard the ones you're not comfortable with and adopt those techniques you find to be valuable or keep them in your "bag of tricks" for when the appropriate time arises with a different dog. I find that if I learn one little thing (even if 100 unusuable things are included), I have spent my time wisely & benefit from it.

*ON A SLIGHTLY "off-topic" thought ... who else is looking forward to Monday's new shows on Animal Planet TV ... "It's Me or the Dog" and "Divine Canine"? I've already got my DVR set to make sure I keep the full set of shows. I'm excited to see what they're all about & have been looking forward to them for weeks. (Patience Katz, Patience ... :doh: )*


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

KatzNK9 said:


> Jumping back in here ... I too completely disagree with the "flooding" technique that he sometimes uses on extreme problem dogs. I personally do not see the merit in that technique but will admit it probably works with "some" dogs in certain situations.
> 
> What I like most about Cesar is his ability to "read" a dog's body language, his focus on exercise, his "calm-assertive" stance when approaching new dogs, his "no touch, no talk, no eye-contact" is solid advice when approaching many types of dogs. I also like his approach to people & helping bring out their confidence level when working with their dogs.
> 
> ...


Oh my gosh, I am totally looking forward to these new shows. I think they are going to be great, I own How To Be Your Dog's Best Friend by the Monks and I think a lot of them. I can't wait to see some different perspectives on dog training. I have to leave a sticky note by the t.v. so I don't forget!

Going back to dog training shows, I think, truly, that the best thing to do is to take bits and pieces of different trainers and info. that will work best for you. I like some things and not others that Cesar says, but that's true for many books/shows I've seen or read. In the end, it's what you as an owner choose as your training philosophy and what your comfort level is. More importantly, knowing your dog's personality and background. Certain techniques that are okay to use on a confident dog may not be at all useful or ethical on a submissive or fearful dog.


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## KatzNK9 (Feb 27, 2007)

GoldenShamus said:


> Oh my gosh, I am totally looking forward to these new shows. I think they are going to be great, I own How To Be Your Dog's Best Friend by the Monks and I think a lot of them. I can't wait to see some different perspectives on dog training. I have to leave a sticky note by the t.v. so I don't forget!


I read that one & also another book by the Monks of New Skete, "The Art of Raising a Puppy" ... it is a great book too.

Glad I'm not the only one who is so excited to see more shows on the subject of dog training. Of course, I never really thought I was alone on this one.


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

Katz, thanks for reminding me to TiVo those two shows. I like to watch as many dog training shows as possible. I do enjoy Cesar and use some of his techniques myself. I like to keep a small arsenal of techniques available because not all techniques work on all dogs. Both the obedience instructors I have been to with my dogs have both been very open to other methods.


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## Goldndust (Jul 30, 2005)

I like the guy, I just wished I could get to one of his seminars. 

I also bought his book, it holds some excellent information. 

I think the flooding thing depends on the dog and whats going on, some benefit by it instead of avoiding it. What i've seen out the guy, is all good and and he's helped many dogs stay alive that many owners have been advised to put down. 

Were all different I guess, but too some wearing a pinch collar is cruel, while to others it is perfectly fine. Guess it's best to go with what your comfortable with and what your not, just let it go and try something else and see how it goes. But I do really like the guy, and love to watch his shows and video's on the interent.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Not a fan, myself.

My BIGGEST pet peeve is how quickly people come to worship his "amazing techniques" based on a well-edited television show. I also wonder how many of the dogs he works with continue to do well in the long-term. His flooding and super-dominant techniques can be VERY difficult for the average pet owner to implement and enforce.

I agree that he makes some very good points -- the need for exercise, the need to be a pack leader, the importance of boundaries and limitations, etc.
However, it kills me to see some of the body language and stress in the dogs at the end of some episodes.

While I'm not a fan of the show or his techniques, it is raising awareness of the importance of dog training -- and that's a good thing.

-Stephanie


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Couldn't have said it better...


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

I think most of us who watch any dog training show take away what we think will work for us. Certainly the methods Cesar uses on an unruly Rottie, Pit or other aggressive breed will to little for a golden. Of course all dog training shows are set up the same way with a problem dog that is "cured" in 10 minutes but that is TV in general. By watching a wide variety it helps me in getting the general thought processes of dogs. I actually see more similarities between all the training methods than differences.:


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## Brinkleysmom (Dec 17, 2005)

You know, I have heard so much pro and con on Cesar Milan and reality is I really have never seen his show completely. I have seen five or ten minutes here and there but other than that I have never really followed it. Not good for me I guess, since they are sending members from their foundation to the Ryleys Run in Sacramento. I suppose I should watch a little more. LOL!!! Although Brinkley is so well trained I guess I just watch a little here and a little there to pick up ideas maybe. Who knows!!!! Like Rob says, whats good for one dog may not be so good for another.


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## audreyannlow (Mar 5, 2007)

I think some people don't like CM because of his seemingly harsh methods. I think it is great that he rehabilitates dogs and trains people and is genuinely involved in helping homeless pets. That said, I'd NEVER let my dogs near him. And, yes, these goldens and their "pit bull" type foster dogs run around in a pack, completely under voice control. There is a place for corrections, particularly in proofing under distractions, but my pets and fosters learn purely through positive guidance and motivation. I have a large male Golden to discipline his pit bull foster kids when necessary but not often.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Thank you Brinkleysmom...

I'll admit I've only 'spot read' the postings to this thread and it appears to go the same as all the others... those critics that oppose his methods don't even watch the show. I'd like to just once see one of these people actually watch all his shows from beginning to end and THEN comment on his methods.

For those of you just reading this thread hoping to learn more about the man or his methods, you're better off just watching his shows... I will warn you now, you canNOT understand what he is really doing by just watch a couple of shows or segments... you must watch a complete series and pay particular attention to his body language, movements, and attitudes... as well as what he is saying. Be aware, the man and his methods are much deeper than a quick cursory glance could ever reveal... it too easy to watch a single show or two and dismiss the man and his methods as simple.

And please do a forum search as you will find out that much has already been discussed about the man and his methods.


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

I am more concerned with the dogs body language than his to be honest...The shows I have watched undoubtedly contain dogs that are distressed, plain and simple. Specific things he does could be VERY dangerous for people to try themselves and that is my MAIN concern with him. (I wouldn't ever dismiss his training methods as 'simple' I would class them as very irresponsible and based entirely on theories I simply do not believe) I don't see the benefit of watching entire series to make this judgement...unless of course at the end of each series he went BACK to each family to see just how long his 'magic' lasted...which I am pretty sure he doesn't do. It is plain to see his approach by the way he deals with the dogs he encounters in each show...if there is some 'master plan' to his work then it has escaped me! (please enlighten me!)


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## sleepyspencer (Feb 25, 2007)

Cesar has given us a lot of good ideas! Our golden's behavior has really improved since we've started watching. Cesar definately thinks like a dog and knows what a dog is going to do before they even do it.


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## KatzNK9 (Feb 27, 2007)

Emma&Tilly said:


> I don't see the benefit of watching entire series to make this judgement...unless of course at the end of each series he went BACK to each family to see just how long his 'magic' lasted...which I am pretty sure he doesn't do.


At the end of many of his shows, they give an update on progress of the dogs as a check-up after his visits/consultations. They have reported good & bad results ... almost all are good ... but there have been a couple of failures & continuing struggles reported. The update reports seemed pretty legit to me.


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

interesting...although I wonder how long-term the progress reports are, weeks? months? years perhaps?...however if the only course of action is to slip on a prong collar and yank down hard on the dogs neck everytime it claps eyes on the offending object (whilst silently infusing them with your 'pack-leader' energy of course) then maybe there will be _some_ kind of results...


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## KatzNK9 (Feb 27, 2007)

Emma&Tilly said:


> interesting...although I wonder how long-term the progress reports are, weeks? months? years perhaps?...however if the only course of action is to slip on a prong collar and yank down hard on the dogs neck everytime it claps eyes on the offending object (whilst silently infusing them with your 'pack-leader' energy of course) then maybe there will be _some_ kind of results...


I have to agree with the complaints people have with his flooding techniques. I personally don't agree with that method but will admit that might work in some cases with some dogs.

I have NOT, however, EVER seen him put a prong collar on a dog (or even suggest one) in one of his shows. I do believe there have been dogs on the show who might have had one ... but I've not noticed him to be a prong collar user (in fact, quite the contrary). I do believe I've seen every one of his shows at least 3 times. Have some of them on DVD & the rest are on my DVR. Are you watching his shows?

I happen to be a big fan of prong collars (used properly and gently).


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

KatzNK9 said:


> I have NOT, however, EVER seen him put a prong collar on a dog (or even suggest one) in one of his shows. ?


He uses whatever type of collar that the owner uses. He says it doesn't matter...it's just a tool . Lots of times I've seen him use just a leash looped thru itself and that works for him too because with the method he uses the dogs are loose leash after just a minute or so. 

The only time that I've seen him do an alpha roll was with a few _very_ aggressive dogs. He never does that with fearful dogs. He doesn't even use "flooding" with all dogs. He has many techniques, depending on the dog. I've seen him sit with his back to a very fearful dog until the dog was totally comfortable with him being there and he worked very slowly with that dog. I've also seen a dog that wouldn't let it's owners eat toast anymore, it would bark and carry on that so that after awhile nobody in the house would use the toaster anymore so Cesar used "flooding" with that dog by following it around the house clicking the toaster up and down. There was another woman who couln't iron her clothes in the morning before work because the dog wouldn't let her set up the ironing board. It's things like that he uses the "flooding techniques" for--these types of dogs "rule the roost" and the owners need to see that they shouldn't let the dogs bully them like that.


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

yes, the specific example I was refering to, the dog was wearing a prong collar while he repeatedly yanked downwards on the dogs neck each time the dog saw a bike I believe. I noticed the prong collar with my beady eye...fair enough, he didnt introduce it as his tool for the training...but _he_ was using it...however, prong collar aside, it is the method and approach I disagree with.


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

I have never really seen him yank downwards. He instructs the owner to give a quick _'sideways'_ tug. He is very specific in this. He says that most people pull "backwards" which doesn't do anything at all for most dogs...just makes them get the urge to pull harder. I've seen dogs that will stand on their back legs and twirl around, trying to get at the object of their desires (bike, car, skateboard, etc) and he may be seen struggling with the dog while trying to keep it from getting the object but he always uses a sideways correction if the dog has all 4 feet on the ground.


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## kra (Oct 2, 2006)

Jazzys Mom said:


> I think thats a great plan! I, too, like Cesar and agree with his methods and values. Anyone that can take a pack of dogs out for a 3 hour walk in the hills without leads gets my vote! I wouldn't attempt 2 or 3 dogs let alone a whole pack!
> 
> Jazzys Mom


I'll second your fine words of wisdom that you have posted here for a long list of reasons. Number #1 being that many of the ideas / methods of Cesar's I grew up watching my grandfather do with his GR's & Lab's!


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## Alpenglunen (Apr 4, 2007)

Too many people get caught-up in the aggressive dog techniques, when the reality is that everyone can take away a ton of general behavior techniques and information for us golden owners with generally well-behaved dogs that are often high-energy. 

Read his book, it's called "Cesar's Way" for a reason, but beyond that his story, and his main general ideas are spot-on and will help you immediately, by giving you a looking-glass to understand your dog's reactions and behaviors. It's the rules, boundaries, and limitations, and the exercise, exercise, excerise, discipline, and then affection, affection at the right times, and simple disciplinary techniques that are truly useful for a more fulfilling relationship for everybody involved. 

You can seek out little details of more aggressive techniques with the worst of cases, but that's far beyond his point for the average dog owner. I find many of the detractors ideas are fueled by jealousy, and by ideas that human psychology is right for dogs, as they try to justify less appropriate methods, and perhaps a bit of racism thrown in for good measure. And with that idea, everyone should read his book, if nothing else than for his personal story of success.


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

The only dogs that I've seen him get really physical with (alpha roll, etc) is the truly dangerous dogs (large and small). These are dogs that have already been given a death sentence by other dog trainers. These dogs go quickly into what he calls "a red zone"...once they are there they aren't listening to gentle voices, clicker rewards and other techniques that may work for a less aggressive dog. I have never had to get physical with my dogs but his "no talk, no touch, no eye contact" technique worked like a miricle with Biscuit's jumping on people who came into the house.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Well, I am certainly not jealous. While his success is great, I have no interest in training as a career, and my dogs are the envy of most who see them for their behavior.

I am definitely not racist, and I don't see anything posted here that suggests any of us are!


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## Alpenglunen (Apr 4, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Well, I am certainly not jealous. While his success is great, I have no interest in training as a career, and my dogs are the envy of most who see them for their behavior.
> 
> I am definitely not racist, and I don't see anything posted here that suggests any of us are!


I don't know if I've read your specific posts here or not. My opinions are based on things I've seen and heard from detractors in general. From what I've seen, those are my observations. Most just seemed to be uninformed about him and his techniques, with a typical knee-jerk response.

I'm no fan of self-proclaimed gurus, and I don't believe Cesar has placed himself in that role as such. Others may have, and others may fancy themselves in that role too. Either way, he has a lot of good info and he's a great contributor to practical dog behavior education and help.


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

I like Cesar and at the very least he has raised the awareness of responsible dog ownership. He also shows that there is no such thing as a "bad dog". His techniques are well thought out and they do work. I think he does a good job of tailoring his methods to the dog at hand. Dangerous dogs get the tough love routine. Lap dogs get the "touch". I enjoy watching every dog training show I can find. I pick and choose the methods I decide to use based on my knowledge of my own dog.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

I have read Cesar's book and found it to be fascinating at the very LEAST! He does explain some of his training methods and where they should be used. I think we all just have to do what is right for us and our particular dogs. I don't think Cesar uses hurtful methods at all, quite the opposite in fact. He uses training that dogs would use on each other - no or very little verbal, the simulated "bite" with the hand, claiming a space as your own, etc. These are all things that a pack animal such as a dog do with each other. I watch my own 2 Goldens and see the exact same things that Cesar uses in his training sessions. So, if the dogs train each other like this, how can it be cruel and wrong??

Jazzys Mom


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## Goldndust (Jul 30, 2005)

Emma&Tilly said:


> yes, the specific example I was refering to, the dog was wearing a prong collar while he repeatedly yanked downwards on the dogs neck each time the dog saw a bike I believe. I noticed the prong collar with my beady eye...fair enough, he didnt introduce it as his tool for the training...but _he_ was using it...however, prong collar aside, it is the method and approach I disagree with.


I've never seen that, maybe you could point that out too us in one of his many video's on the National Geographic site. I think for many a simple correction or method of training that one doesn't use, or believe in could consider abuse by that one, although it is not! Nor should any dog be abused to train, but like I say...i've not seen that in his vids, or his shows. Nor even read of it in his book I own.

One thing to keep in mind is, the correction given must go above the action the dog is doing at that time. The dog is highly focused at that moment so the correction has too go above that to break that focus. Even cookies in these dogs will not break that focus, nor fix that problem totally and in certain problems cookies are not what you want to use at the time since they will only reward the dog for the bad behavior it is doing. The prong collar I am guessing was used in that case do too that was what he the owner used, and they were being trained....not the dog! He trains people, not dogs.

Prong collars should not be jerked downward, but like I said I have yet to see him use that method in his training and if you could show us that, it would be helpful to us.


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## Alpenglunen (Apr 4, 2007)

Goldndust said:


> I've never seen that, maybe you could point that out too us in one of his many video's on the National Geographic site. I think for many a simple correction or method of training that one doesn't use, or believe in could consider abuse by that one, although it is not! Nor should any dog be abused to train, but like I say...i've not seen that in his vids, or his shows. Nor even read of it in his book I own.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind is, the correction given must go above the action the dog is doing at that time. The dog is highly focused at that moment so the correction has too go above that to break that focus. Even cookies in these dogs will not break that focus, nor fix that problem totally and in certain problems cookies are not what you want to use at the time since they will only reward the dog for the bad behavior it is doing. The prong collar I am guessing was used in that case do too that was what he the owner used, and they were being trained....not the dog! He trains people, not dogs.
> 
> Prong collars should not be jerked downward, but like I said I have yet to see him use that method in his training and if you could show us that, it would be helpful to us.


I know I've seen most of his shows now thanks to the marathons they run occasionally, and I'm not sure I remember that specific case or not, but I do remember a number of owners using a pinch collar. Most of the time Cesar has left it on, but used his own twine loop show lead instead. There have been a few dogs that go after moving targets with authority, typically bulldogs from what I recall. If he was yanking down, it was no different than teaching the "down" command and leading the dog to the ground, perhaps in that case with the distraction for a harder challenge.


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