# Sticky  The importance of eye exams



## Pointgold

*Please - whether breeder or pet owner, read this. It is of the utmost importance. If you have a dog who suffers with eye "allergies", have a board certified veterinary ophthalmologist do a CERF exam - it could be something far more serious than "allergies".*

*Sylvia Donahey of Birnam Wood Golden Retrievers, has written this post (permission to cross post given). We've both been very busy contacting owners, taking all dogs in for testing and submission of blood/DNA samples, and agonizing over how to proceed. Unless EVERY breeder is honest, open and doing CERF testing - and sending the exam forms in - this will never end. I have contacted CERF with the first of what I imagine will be many requests to include PU on the reports and list it on the database.*

*Please read:*



Several years ago I bred a dog, Birnam Wood’s No Trout About It, “Cody,” 
that was later diagnosed with pigmentary uveitis (PU) at four years of age. 
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=186041 
Dr. Wendy Townsend was just beginning her research into PU and blood samples were sent from the affected dog, his dam and several clear littermates along with pedigrees and eye reports. I also notified the sire’s owner and requested they submit blood and a DNA sample. The sire and dam were both reexamined and were clear of PU. I thought those actions were what any responsible breeder would do. 

Over the last two years I have read the advisories from the Health & 
Genetics Committee regarding pigmentary uveitis and thought other than this dog confirmed with PU, I was breeding healthy dogs for the last 40 years. Like other responsible breeders, I did the best I could with the information available regarding researching pedigrees for all known genetic issues. So, I was stunned to receive an e-mail from Laura Salvatore that at 8.5 years CH. Birnam Wood’s Expedia.com, “Zoom,” had just been diagnosed with PU. 
Thankfully it was found “early” and considered mild. 
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=72069 

Since Zoom and Cody share the same dam, that had my immediate attention. I contacted all of Zoom’s littermates and advised them to have their dogs checked immediately. On Saturday, at an eye clinic in Santa Rosa, three of her littermates were checked. Webb and Jeeves were clear, Monty was diagnosed with a mild case. Another owner in North Carolina wrote back that her dog Tucker has it in one eye. Unfortunately, her local vet had misdiagnosed it as allergies for several years and by the time she was referred to an ophthalmologist a month ago, it had progressed to blindness in one eye and glaucoma. Webb’s son, SugarRay, has a mild case in one eye. No breeder ever wants to hear this. And quite frankly no Golden Retriever should have to suffer this fate. 

Zoom has produced several successful litters and is an Outstanding Dam. 
Several of her children have also been bred. I am advising the owners of her offspring to delay any breeding plans until we have had an opportunity to obtain more information on this disease. Hopefully a DNA test and other genetic information will be available soon to help us make informed breeding decisions. 

PU can severely affect the quality of life for our dogs. It robs their 
owners of the enjoyment of their older dog because they are constantly 
medicating it and worried about its eyes. It is expensive to treat, painful 
to the dog and if surgery is required to remove the eye, the cost could 
easily escalate over a thousand dollars. 

Early screening is no guarantee, because PU strikes later in life when dogs are at the end of their breeding careers. Unlucky males may have been used upwards of 100 times by the time of diagnosis. Unlucky females may have five litters on the ground when diagnosed. Many could be great grandparents by the time they are diagnosed. Do the math: hundreds, maybe thousands of dogs could be involved in just one extended family. 

What can we do to help the breed we all love? For starters, annual eye 
examinations for the dog’s lifetime and faithful submittal of the results to 
CERF – regardless of findings. Post the results to whatever databases are 
out there that also collect information (k9data.com, offa.org). Stress to 
our puppy buyers the importance of annual CERF examinations. While an unbred pet diagnosed with PU will not have a genetic impact on the breed, it needs to be diagnosed early enough to begin treatment and the breeder needs the information for their program. Contact Dr. Wendy Townsend if a dog is diagnosed with PU and provide her with blood/DNA/pedigree/eye exam information. [email protected] I admit I was lax in the past about sending in annual examination forms to CERF on our older dogs. I didn’t see the point if I wasn’t breeding that dog anymore. But I will never do that again because I would only be contributing to the lack of information. 

Before breeding our bitches we need to do more homework on all sides of the pedigree. People complain that it is frustrating when researching pedigrees to read “eyes normal” on k9data where a valid CERF number should reside. Or the owner removes the year and age from the number and when you check on the CERF site, the dog has vanished from the database. Simply put, stud dog and brood bitch owners should provide current CERF examination certificates. Years ago it was not unusual to pass around the actual eye examination when exchanging genetic information for a proposed breeding. Back then I rarely CERF’d my brood bitches; just included their exam form with all paperwork. Boy, was that shortsighted – I should have done both! The examination form contained more detailed info than the CERF certificate at that time. This isn’t true anymore; the CERF certificate lists everything you may need to make an informed decision, including breeder options. If the dog or bitch’s owner feels something further is listed on the exam form that the other party needs to know, they can provide both. More information is better. But 
there simply is no reason not to submit an examination form to CERF, 
especially in the case of frequently used sires. 

Many years ago when SAS came to our attention, responsible breeders took the disease very seriously and tested their breeding stock to avoid breeding affected dogs. They banded together to promote the health of the dogs. Recently when prcd-PRA became known, responsible breeders began testing their dogs with the new DNA marker test and it appears they have gotten a quick handle on it. They shared information on their dogs both affected and carriers because they realized it’s “us” as a breed that is going to suffer and not just one unlucky kennel here and there. This is progress and for the betterment of the breed. It is what we need to do to come to grips with PU – share information openly, take away the stigma of having produced a defect. We all produce defects no matter how hard we try not to. 

My personal philosophy regarding pigmentary uveitis and how widespread it may be in the breed is fairly simple. From looking at pedigrees in k9data it is pandemic. I know it is common belief but never confirmed that the early Gold-Rush dogs that many of us have in commonality were affected, but I have viewed other pedigrees without those bloodlines and they have produced it as well. Thank you to the owners/breeders who have listed a diagnosis of PU on your dog’s page on k9data. I know how painful that was as I just listed my affected dogs. 

Where to go from here? I’m not sure at the moment, and I know I’m preaching to the choir – but please consider: 
• if you are breeding your Goldens and not examining them annually for their lifetime, stop breeding; you are contributing to the problem. 
• if you are breeding your dogs and not submitting the annual examination 
forms to CERF, stop breeding; you are contributing to the problem. 
• if you are not encouraging all your buyers to have their dog’s eyes 
examined annually and submitted to CERF, stop breeding; you are contributing to the problem. 
• if your dog is diagnosed with PU and you continue to breed it, stop 
breeding; you are the problem. 

Permission is granted to share this message with every Golden owner and 
breeder that you know. I will post it to my blog at 
www.sylviadonaheygolden.com as well. We are all in this together and should fully disclose and share information so that others may make candid and informed breeding decisions. It is all about the dogs. They deserve our very best effort.


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## Megora

Laura... is this something I should be concerned about now while my dog is young and with eye allergies (we live in a wooded/fieldy area and it seems like all our dogs develop eye allergies, especially in summer)? 

Everything I've read about Uveitis (I was extremely worried about it last summer when Jacks started developing eye allergies and staining that made his eyes look bulgey though they weren't) says it developes later in a dog's life, as you indicate here?


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## mylissyk

This is heartbreaking Laura. For breeders like you who try so hard to make sure you are breeding healthy dogs, then find out something you didn't know may have such a huge impact...how do you even process this?

I hope it is not as large a problem as it appears it may be.


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## cubbysan

Thanks for sharing this. My vet had warned me about this when I talked to her to buy a golden. 

She and the another vet in the practice had littermates from a litter where at least 4 of the dogs ended up blind from it in their senior years. 

It took her quite a lot of fighting with the breeder to stop breeding her lines.


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## Debles

As many here know, our Gunner was diagnosed with GRPU three years ago. He is being treated by a veterinary opthamologist for the PU and glaucoma. He also has a small cataract. My breeder had her female spayed at this news. When I notified Gunner's sire's owner Ginny Gray at Woodwalks Goldens I heard nothing back and they continued to use Frosty at stud. They say on their site that Frosty has been CERF tested but not if every year. (They have not updated their site in a few years so I have no idea if Frosty is still living) I had also notified them at the same time that Gunner was diagnosed as hypothyroid.

Gunner has been doing well, he sees the opthamologist every few months. His uveitis is clear now but his eye pressures have been up a little. he goes back in Oct and my regular vet checks him more often.


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## HiTideGoldens

Thank you for sharing this!


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## MyMaggieGirl

Thank you for posting about PU in our Goldens. Flirt was diagnosed at age 4.5 years. She has a mild case in both eyes and is treated twice daily with NSAID drops and we see the veterinary opthamologist every six months now. We are participating in Dr. Townsend's study. Didn't cost me anything - my vet drew the blood and mouth swab for no charge.

Yes the visits and drops are very expensive but to me it is a small price to pay for her eyes. My regular vet admitted that he knew very little about PU and fortunately I have a wonderful opthamologist in my area.

Those of you whose vet diagnosed "allergies" PLEASE take your furkid to a veterinary opthamologist PRONTO for an accurate diagnosis.

PointGold, interesting that you mention Gold-Rush because they appear way back in Flirt's bloodlines.

And kudos to Doolin Goldens for being honest about Flirt's PU.


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## Pointgold

mylissyk said:


> This is heartbreaking Laura. For breeders like you who try so hard to make sure you are breeding healthy dogs, then find out something you didn't know may have such a huge impact...how do you even process this?
> 
> I hope it is not as large a problem as it appears it may be.


Unfortunately, it is much larger.


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## hotel4dogs

Thanks Laura for posting this. I know it wasn't easy.


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## Pointgold

MyMaggieGirl said:


> Thank you for posting about PU in our Goldens. Flirt was diagnosed at age 4.5 years. She has a mild case in both eyes and is treated twice daily with NSAID drops and we see the veterinary opthamologist every six months now. We are participating in Dr. Townsend's study. Didn't cost me anything - my vet drew the blood and mouth swab for no charge.
> 
> Yes the visits and drops are very expensive but to me it is a small price to pay for her eyes. My regular vet admitted that he knew very little about PU and fortunately I have a wonderful opthamologist in my area.
> 
> Those of you whose vet diagnosed "allergies" PLEASE take your furkid to a veterinary opthamologist PRONTO for an accurate diagnosis.
> 
> PointGold, interesting that you mention Gold-Rush because they appear way back in Flirt's bloodlines.
> 
> And kudos to Doolin Goldens for being honest about Flirt's PU.


 
My feeling, as is Sylvia's, is that show dog or pet, annual eye exams by a board certified opthalmologist, should be done. Period. 
As for the age, I believe that the earlier you start checking, the earlier you will see any problems if they exist. This includes tiny iris cysts - which may or may not be innocuous, but you will have a baseline from which to guage their progression - hopefully NOT into the cysts seen with PU. 

I'm not sure how many of you realize how huge this is. I pray that Sylvia, a highly respected, successful, long time breeder, is able to give others the courage to do the right thing with their dogs, as well.

Now, Marie and I have a litter of 2 week old babies, sired by Ch Nitelite's WHo's On Deck? Crew is a Zoom son. He has cleared every eye exam, as we have a son from his only other breeding - he cleared, and blood/dna was submitted. We are working on getting the other owners of that litter to have CERF exams done, and I will pay for them if need be. We are telling all potential buyers of the Mandy ex Crew litter about this, and will encourage them to have annual exams done, as well. The breeding was done prior to Zoom's diagnosis, or else I'd have held off on doing it. I love the litter, they are beautiful and healthy, and I pray will not be affected. We'll watch them like hawks. We are committed to finding the cause/a marker/ a CURE. Not breeding these dogs right now is a serious decision. 

We also had a 9 week old daughter of Nitelite's Are We There Yet? (littermate to Crew) examined. Maybe cleared, Her daughter looked fine. Blood and DNA were submitted from them all. Ditto Tommy. Tommy cleared. Most important to me, is that Zoom's case was deemed "extremely mild", and caught very early. We immediately started the drops, and she will be on them the rest of her life. I cannot bear the thought of her suffering. and pray that by starting now we can head off anything that might be debilitating. I'm so upset to think of Tucker having been misdiagnosed as having "allergies" and so much time lost in correctly treating PU. 

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE - have your dogs eyes done. It's the only way for us to stop this from becoming even more of a problem than it already is.

Thanks.


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## Pointgold

Megora said:


> Laura... is this something I should be concerned about now while my dog is young and with eye allergies (we live in a wooded/fieldy area and it seems like all our dogs develop eye allergies, especially in summer)?
> 
> Everything I've read about Uveitis (I was extremely worried about it last summer when Jacks started developing eye allergies and staining that made his eyes look bulgey though they weren't) says it developes later in a dog's life, as you indicate here?


Well, as Sylvia posted, it's been diagnosed in a dog as young as 4. And because there are people who are not being upfront about it, there could be even younger dogs. Who knows... I'd take no chances, and have an opthalmologist examine Jack. Better safe than sorry.


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## HiTideGoldens

I think you both are setting a great example for other breeders. It takes a lot of integrity and courage to do what you're doing - it's putting the bad and the good out there for people to see. But it's for the betterment of the breed and I think you deserve a lot of praise for "going public" with this issue. I will be getting Jack's eyes checked asap. We were planning on doing it in a couple of months anyway.


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## Pointgold

goldenjackpuppy said:


> I think you both are setting a great example for other breeders. It takes a lot of integrity to do what you're doing. I will be getting Jack's eyes checked asap. We were planning on doing it in a couple of months anyway.


Bless you. Submit the forms to CERF. Let his breeder know the results.


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## HiTideGoldens

Pointgold said:


> Bless you. Submit the forms to CERF. Let his breeder know the results.


We will. He has some Birnam Woods dogs back in his pedigree but not in the most recent generations. Jack's sire's breeder/owner has at least 1 girl out of Jeeves though. I'm sure she was on Sylvia's initial email but I'll make sure she knows about it.


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## Katie and Paddy's Mum

I am glad that I get Katie's eyes tested annually - she developed ectopic cillia and distachia bilaterally at the age of 1.5 and we work with an amazing veterinary opthamologist that is very thorough. Katie is not breeding stock, but regardless I would never want her to suffer.
This is definitely wonderful infomation to have.

I am concerned about the process here in Canada - for instance, I had to have a veterinary referral before I could even see the eye specialist. My vet fought me on it, and thought he could treat her in-house. I ultimately prevailed, and Katie had to undergo laser surgery twice to remove unwanted hairs that were causing ulceration (it was heartbreaking!) We need to have more ready access to these types of specialists in order for people to go. Right now, we seem to have evolved to the point of understanding the value of proper oral care for our pets, but this has to extend to eye health as well. There is just not enough emphasis on it until the time a dog begins to develop issues. Rarely if ever do vets look at eyes when they are doing an examination - they listen to the heart, check the ears, check the gums and teeth - but never once have I had someone look at the eyes.

I know I digress, but it just frustrates me. 

What a great blog post to read, and a very good reminder that eye health is every bit as important as yearly wellness bloodwork!

Kim


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## AmberSunrise

Thank you for posting this. And I am sorry Zoom was diagnosed, but sincerely hope the treatment keep her eyes from becoming worse.


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## Katie and Paddy's Mum

Just to add another point, when both Katie and Paddy developed distachias I called our breeder to have them inform the other dogs, and she literally shrugged me off. It was so distressing to me. And irresponsible.
PU is a much more serious eye disease and here are brave breeders going public about it and acting responsibly for the wellness of the breed. 
It boggles the mind.

I get very upset and emotionally charged when talking about eyes, as I saw my beautiful little Katie suffer so much.

Kim


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## LibertyME

A CERF exam at a hosted clinic is not an expensive exam .... 
Here in the middle of Maine, $30-$35.00 is typical and it is pretty easy to find a club that is hosting a clinic. An eye exam with the same specialist in his/her office would be much more.


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## Megora

Pointgold said:


> Well, as Sylvia posted, it's been diagnosed in a dog as young as 4. And because there are people who are not being upfront about it, there could be even younger dogs. Who knows... I'd take no chances, and have an opthalmologist examine Jack. Better safe than sorry.


Okay... I'll discuss with my vet and see if I can get a reference. It can't hurt getting his eyes looked at anyway if it's just allergies. I'm scared to death of any of my dogs developing glaucoma, especially since I know somebody who has three eyeless dogs because of the disease. And of course our collie has eye problems. 

I appreciate you and those other breeders for coming out and discussing/pursuing this issue. I hope it can somehow fixed...


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## Pointgold

Sunrise said:


> Thank you for posting this. And I am sorry Zoom was diagnosed, but sincerely hope the treatment keep her eyes from becoming worse.


Thank you. She is doing wonderfully. She'll be nine in November, and still has the eyes of an eagle. She loves having the drops put in - she gets a hug, a smooch, and a cookie, and I keep them in the fridge, so I'm guessing that they are soothing. Dr. Ramsey said that it is truly a very mild, very early case. We are hopeful that the drops will keep it that way.
She rules her universe, and is a very happy, and otherwise healthy girl. She's in great shape and keeps the other dogs on their toes!


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## MillysMom

What exactly would "allergies" in the eyes look like? Runny like a horse's eyes with allergies? Milly gets quite a few crusties in the corner of her eyes - I have to wipe them out almost daily, but they aren't runny at all, more like eye boogers. Are there any other signs to look for?

I'm a bit concerned because the white in one of her eyes has a black raised dot on it. You can only see it when she turns her head to the side or looks sideways, and it's only in one eye. She's had it since I adopted her, and the vet said it doesn't seem like something to be concerned about, because it's only in one eye and hasn't changed at all.

I'm starting to think I better get her checked out by an ophthalmologist just to make sure. Not that it would do much good for the breed as a whole, since goodness only knows where she came from. Better safe than sorry.

This sounds like it is a problem that is really effecting the breed, and the unknowns are going to cause a lot more havoc on the breed than honest breeders being straight coming with this information. Thank you for posting this, I'm sure this is very difficult for you and Sylvia, but it really shows your devotion to bettering the breed.

I hope that with more testing and honesty, that the cause of this will be pinpointed, and we can eradicate the problem completely by fixing the root of the problem. My biggest concern is that it will be difficult to get many of the pet owners to do annual testing, especially those who live in remote areas. This needs to be something all breeders advocate for, especially with pet homes, until the root of the problem is discovered, and a solution is in place. It seems like it will be relatively easy to get many honest and ethical breeders on board with this, but it might be hard to do entire litters and truly track this without getting the pet owners on board too.


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## GoldenSail

PG my heart goes out to you  I felt like crying when I read that it was Zoom and how enormous the implication must be. Darn it, I pray that we will find a way to definitely catch these things at younger ages.

Thank goodness Scout has cleared her first CERF, but if I wasn't going to show her I wouldn't have thought to CERF (and heck, even that is not a fail-safe since they can develop it later). I will now advocate it to all GR owners that I now pet or otherwise.


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## BayBeams

My Golden girl, Baylee, was diagnosed at age 8 with PU by an opthomologist. Prior to that I was told she had allergies. She gets the drops daily and has regular rechecks.
Baylee was a BYB dog before I knew better...she came from a litter of 12 puppies. I can only wonder about Baylee's siblings as I have no contact with the owner of the dam and sire. Based on the circumstances where I located Baylee I am sure the owners of the puppies and whatever offspring that exist, have very little idea about this eye disease.


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## Ljilly28

Thanks for posting about this, and thanks to all the brave people adding Pigmentary Uveitis to k9data openly and honestly. Someone made the good point that if "PU" is added to Honorifics, is comes up when searched as Best pUPppy. In the past, I've only checked yes "officially" at age 1 to 2, and then not until veteran years except by the regular vet. I'll be making appointments today.


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## Ljilly28

MyMaggieGirl said:


> Thank you for posting about PU in our Goldens. Flirt was diagnosed at age 4.5 years. She has a mild case in both eyes and is treated twice daily with NSAID drops and we see the veterinary opthamologist every six months now. We are participating in Dr. Townsend's study. Didn't cost me anything - my vet drew the blood and mouth swab for no charge.
> 
> Yes the visits and drops are very expensive but to me it is a small price to pay for her eyes. My regular vet admitted that he knew very little about PU and fortunately I have a wonderful opthamologist in my area.
> 
> Those of you whose vet diagnosed "allergies" PLEASE take your furkid to a veterinary opthamologist PRONTO for an accurate diagnosis.
> 
> PointGold, interesting that you mention Gold-Rush because they appear way back in Flirt's bloodlines.
> 
> And kudos to Doolin Goldens for being honest about Flirt's PU.


Is Flirt the Sunnyglen girl? If so, she is SO gorgeous. It's awesome you are participating in the study. We do it with the Idexx Anaplasmosis/Lymphoma study, and it feels good to contribute.


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## Pointgold

Katie and Paddy's Mum said:


> Just to add another point, when both Katie and Paddy developed distachias I called our breeder to have them inform the other dogs, and she literally shrugged me off. It was so distressing to me. And irresponsible.
> PU is a much more serious eye disease and here are brave breeders going public about it and acting responsibly for the wellness of the breed.
> It boggles the mind.
> 
> I get very upset and emotionally charged when talking about eyes, as I saw my beautiful little Katie suffer so much.
> 
> Kim


We are somewhat encouraged by the response that we have gotten so far, but we are also realistic enough to know that there are so few breeders who will actually go public and do the right thing. Too many excuses are made, and too many are in denial.


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## CarolinaCasey

Very informative post, thanks for sharing this. I know that it wasn't easy.


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## Pointgold

*"PET" owners*

Since Sylvia made her post on some of the GR breeder-oriented lists, much of the discussion is now revolving around "pet owners" not getting eye exams. Many are saying that their pet buyers just don't see the need, when they aren't having any symptoms. Personally, no one that I have asked to have their dogs done have balked. Having annual exams, a relatively inexpensive undertaking, can literally save you thousands of dollars, let alone save your dog's eyesight. This forum is an incredible venue for educating the general pet owning public, and I am begging you all to prove those naysayers wrong - "pet people" DO care. And they WILL do annual exams, if they understand the implications not only for their own beloved dog, but the breed as a whole. We have a greater opportunity to make this right than we ever have with any other disease. We have far more access to information, and far more access to more owners. PLEASE, please please... this is no joke, no small thing. No dog, show, pet, intact, altered, breeding, non-breeding, champion show dog or champion couch potato, should suffer needlessly.


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## MyMaggieGirl

Ljilly28 said:


> Is Flirt the Sunnyglen girl? If so, she is SO gorgeous. It's awesome you are participating in the study. We do it with the Idexx Anaplasmosis/Lymphoma study, and it feels good to contribute.


Thank you Ljilly! Yes, Flirt is a Sunnyglen girl: Sunnyglen's Lil Hussy. I agree with you, it feels good to participate in the study and to talk to others about PU in our dogs.

MillysMom, please have those eyes checked! The runny eyes and raised spot could be iris cysts.

What to look for? The opthamologist told me to be on the lookout for eye discharge (other than morning sleepies), redness in the white of the eye mostly above the iris area, rubbing of her eyes and little brown floating things that may look like caviar - those are the cysts. Any of these symptoms require immediate attention by the opthamologist.

Megora, search for an animal opthamologist in your area. I did not need a referral from my vet although my vet was contacted prior to our first appointment, to submit health history.

Again, thank you for posting about this.


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## Pointgold

This issue is so important. 
For those who love to see a Golden Retriever gazing adoringly at you, think about this - if left untreated, PU and glaucoma can result in the necessary enucleating of the eye. In other words, the REMOVAL. Not so pretty.

Please. Get ophthalmology checks. That "allergy" could be far more than that, and it really does need an ACVO vet to diagnose properly.


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## MyMaggieGirl

Pointgold, can you send a private message to me? Or an email [email protected]. Thank you.


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## GoldenSail

PG--does anyone have any understanding how this passes down? Can it skip generations or is a clear parent 'safe' as long as they never develop after routine check-ups?

PS I have mentioned this to a couple of pet people I know with goldens and at least one of which (who has a Webb daughter) intends on getting her girl checked.


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## Pointgold

*A step in the right direction*

I just received this reply from CERF:

---- VMDB CERF <[email protected]> wrote:
> Laura,
>
>
>
> This condition has been added to our CERF form and as it is marked on exams it is put into the database and accessible through reports.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Sandy
>
>
>
> From: Laura Salvatore [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 9:33 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Pigmentary Uveitis
>
>
>
> I am respectfully requesting, actually BEGGING, that CERF Exams clearly list Pigmentary Uveitis, and that it be seen on the database. Please consider this, it is a huge issue in our breed right now, and complete transparency is critical.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Laura Salvatore
>
> Nitelite Goldens
>


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom

Laura, thank you so much for educating so many of us. I had no idea. Now it is on my "to do list". Cody sees the vet this month for his check up and I'll get his referral to an opthalm. Again, thank you!!!!


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## Megora

GoldenSail said:


> PG--does anyone have any understanding how this passes down? Can it skip generations or is a clear parent 'safe' as long as they never develop after routine check-ups?


I wondered the same thing...

I looked at the dogs in Zoom's pedigree and panicked when I recognized a few names from Birnam Woods and Asterling who are on both sides of my Jack's pedigree. Then again, these are dogs that are probably in a lot of pedigrees out there. 

Last night I was googling PU a ton... and on the GRCA site they say they just made the connection that the disease is hereditary recently? And from what I read I was under the impression that dogs with PU were passing certifications because they thought it was environmental instead of hereditary? 

Does anyone know of any good opthamologists in Michigan? I googled but the ones who looked "good" were referrals only.


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## Pointgold

GoldenSail said:


> PG--does anyone have any understanding how this passes down? Can it skip generations or is a clear parent 'safe' as long as they never develop after routine check-ups?
> 
> PS I have mentioned this to a couple of pet people I know with goldens and at least one of which (who has a Webb daughter) intends on getting her girl checked.


Hopefully, the study going on right now will provide the answers to those questions. We just don't know yet. What is so scary is that we have been thinking that we are okay, breeding to dogs with clear CERFs, only to have those same dogs be dx'd later. Finding a marker, and having a DNA test available, will be extraordinary. We could be able to identify dogs even before they were diagnosed, and thus not breed them. Or it may be discovered that you _can_ breed a carrier, but ONLY to a non-carrier without producing it. This is why it is so important to get those exams done, and contribute to the study.


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## Pointgold

Megora said:


> I wondered the same thing...
> 
> I looked at the dogs in Zoom's pedigree and panicked when I recognized a few names from Birnam Woods and Asterling who are on both sides of my Jack's pedigree. Then again, these are dogs that are probably in a lot of pedigrees out there.
> 
> Last night I was googling PU a ton... and on the GRCA site they say they just made the connection that the disease is hereditary recently? And from what I read I was under the impression that dogs with PU were passing certifications because they thought it was environmental instead of hereditary?
> 
> Does anyone know of any good opthamologists in Michigan? I googled but the ones who looked "good" were referrals only.


I absolutely will NOT see any ophthalmologist other than David Ramsey. He is fantastic. His passion for the specialty, and for the issue of PU in Goldens in particular, is unbelieveable.


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## Megora

Thanks Laura! And his clinic is fairly close too...


----------



## Pointgold

Megora said:


> Thanks Laura! And his clinic is fairly close too...


I wish it was "fairly close" for me... when we go to see Dr. Dave, we have to go to the Eastwood Towne Centre, shop at Williams-Sonoma, Pottery Barn, and Coldwater Creek, and eat at PF Changs. Such a chore 
Actually, I'd drive 8 hours happily to see him. I think he's fantastic.


----------



## LibertyME

Laura if a person makes an appointment at an Ophthalmologist and asks for an eye exam....do they have to specifically ask for a CERF form to be completed....or can one safely assumed that the Dr. will submit the exam results to be compiled into the database?

Nevermind....<geesh> it is on the home page:
http://www.vmdb.org/history.html


----------



## Pointgold

LibertyME said:


> Laura if a person makes an appointment at an Ophthalmologist and asks for an eye exam....do they have to specifically ask for a CERF form to be completed....or can one safely assumed that the Dr. will submit the exam results to be compiled into the database?
> 
> Nevermind....<geesh> it is on the home page:
> CERF - CERF Information (Brochure)


Ask for a CERF eye exam. Some clinics have set days where they do nothing but, at a reduced price. It is up to the owner to submit the exam form to CERF. It is $12.00 for the the first and 7.00 thereafter to recertify. I'm excited that the forms are being changed to address PU, and that the result will show up on the database. After the initial "OMG. It's going to be right out there" stomach ache, I know that it's the ONLY thing to do.


----------



## Florabora22

Hm. Perhaps I will look into LSU doing a CERF exam with Flora, even though I can hardly afford it. So far her eyes seem fine, but this thread still raises some alarm.


----------



## CarolinaCasey

Upcoming clinics for CERF and OFA are often listed here by date and venue... I don't see any CERF ones listed yet but it is sure to change often.

Golden Breeders Resource


----------



## HiTideGoldens

Our eye specialist (that we went to previously for an injury) can't see Jack for almost a month. I just emailed our show superintendents to find out if they'll have a clinic at our upcoming shows. Fingers crossed!


----------



## AmbikaGR

You can find a listing of upcoming CERF clinics here
CERF - ACVO Clinic List
but the list is not complete. It will list only those that clubs/clinics notify CERF they are ging to hold them.
Also you can sometimes find the info in the OFA calendar. 
Orthopedic Foundation for Animals
A number of clubs will do CERF clinics in conjunction with some screening that OFA has a database for.


----------



## LibertyME

It looks (to me) like a Dr. will submit exam info to the database regardless if a CERF from (specifically) is completed or not, but I think to get the most 'bang for the buck' as far as research is concerned....a CERF form should be completed.

The CERF from has the dogs registered name, and a spot where the vet confirms the dogs positive identification. Plus owners name, address and phone.

Yet another reason to register your dog and either tattoo or microchip...


----------



## AmbikaGR

Pointgold said:


> She loves having the drops put in - she gets a hug, a smooch, and a cookie, and I keep them in the fridge, so I'm guessing that they are soothing.



I was talking to a friend whose dog was dx with PU. The dog had not been to see a specialist for several years and decided on a whim to take her. She told me how her girl would come running from rooms away as soon as she shook the bottle of eye drops. Getting the drops was even better than getting a steak to the dog. She could only imagine how long this girl had suffered with what was then obviously great pain. 
There is NO doubt in my mind that even in the mildest of cases they do suffer and the drops provide great relief.


----------



## AmbikaGR

LibertyME said:


> It looks (to me) like a Dr. will submit exam info to the database regardless if a CERF from (specifically) is completed or not, but I think to get the most 'bang for the buck' as far as research is concerned....a CERF form should be completed.
> 
> The CERF from has the dogs registered name, and a spot where the vet confirms the dogs positive identification. Plus owners name, address and phone.
> 
> Yet another reason to register your dog and either tattoo or microchip...


Anytime they perform a CERF exam they fill out with the owner a multi-copy form. The Dr sends in all his copies and CERF tracks each and every one of these by breed. If the owner does not send in their copy to CERF then the dog iis included in the "breed" database as an anonymous. 

But if the ophthalmologist just does an eye exam then the info is not shared with CERF. That is why it is important to request a CERF exam and not just and eye exam.


----------



## AmbikaGR

Pointgold said:


> I'm excited that the forms are being changed to address PU, and that the result will show up on the database. After the initial "OMG. It's going to be right out there" stomach ache, I know that it's the ONLY thing to do.


Hi Laura
I am guessing this will show in the "breed" (Goldens) report as CERF does not post any info on specific dogs that do not clear. Unlike OFA who gives the owner the option to post "failed" clearances in the OFA public databases. Correct?


----------



## LibertyME

The sentence below in bold from the vmdb.org website is is what has me confused Hank...

Im sure that ACVOs also examine mixed breeds and dog without papers. 
Is their data perhaps still entered into the database, but used in a very general way....(X dogs examined in 2009 and Y found to be free of disease).

A dog that is AKC and/or CKC registered and microchipped with a completed CERF form is of more value (_from a research point of view_) then a dog like my Lexi who is clearly Golden, but her pedigree is unknown.

It doesnt mean that Lexi should not be examined and entered in the database....but the information gathered from her exam can only be used in a general way...


The CERF Registry not only registers those dog's certified free of heritable eye disease by members of the American College of Veterinary Ophthalmologists (A.C.V.O. ), *but also collects data on all dogs examined by A.C.V.O. Diplomates*. This data is used to form the CERF data base which is useful in researching trends in eye disease and breed susceptibility. Not only is this data useful to clinicians and students of ophthalmology, but to interested breed clubs and individual breeders and owners of specific breeds.


----------



## HiTideGoldens

That's interesting. So the dr. will note things even if the specific dog does not have their information sent in to the registry. I would imagine that information is helpful generally, but not so much with this particular study of PU.


----------



## HiTideGoldens

Pointgold said:


> I'm excited that the forms are being changed to address PU, and that the result will show up on the database. After the initial "OMG. It's going to be right out there" stomach ache, I know that it's the ONLY thing to do.


I can't even imagine how you feel so I won't pretend to understand, but I have a lot of respect for the fact that you're doing this and taking a stand for all of our dogs. A lot of people talk about "bettering the breed" but to me, this is actually taking a proactive step to do so.


----------



## AmbikaGR

Mary you are correct. The data collected from your Lexi would not be included in the Golden database. 
But of course if you are sure your Lexi is of Golden genes you would owe it to her to have her eyes checked on at least a yearly basis. As stated previously this disease causes great pain if left untreated. And at this time it is specific to only Goldens. As someone earlier stated, and I apologize for not recalling who iit was, there dog from a BYB was dx with PU so your dog does not have to be from show lines.





LibertyME said:


> The sentence below in bold from the vmdb.org website is is what has me confused Hank...
> 
> Im sure that ACVOs also examine mixed breeds and dog without papers.
> Is their data perhaps still entered into the database, but used in a very general way....(X dogs examined in 2009 and Y found to be free of disease).
> 
> A dog that is AKC and/or CKC registered and microchipped with a completed CERF form is of more value (_from a research point of view_) then a dog like my Lexi who is clearly Golden, but her pedigree is unknown.
> 
> It doesnt mean that Lexi should not be examined and entered in the database....but the information gathered from her exam can only be used in a general way...
> 
> 
> The CERF Registry not only registers those dog's certified free of heritable eye disease by members of the American College of Veterinary Ophthalmologists (A.C.V.O. ), *but also collects data on all dogs examined by A.C.V.O. Diplomates*. This data is used to form the CERF data base which is useful in researching trends in eye disease and breed susceptibility. Not only is this data useful to clinicians and students of ophthalmology, but to interested breed clubs and individual breeders and owners of specific breeds.


----------



## LibertyME

Exactly...
All of mine are examined yearly at local CERF clinics. Including my much loved pound puppy, Lexi. Just because a dog isnt 'papered' doesent mean they shouldn't get their eyes examined....EVERY dog deserves to be painfree.

I want to beg to those that have new puppies - if you dont see the need or just haven't gotten around to mailing in your papers or gotten your pup microchipped...this is a really good reason to do both!

It times like this when a pedigree really means something to ALL dogs.....
If researchers are able to track down a gene or genes responsible for PU. It will be in large part becuase of purebred dogs with pedigrees from reputable registries, their owners who take them for exams and responsible breeders who push for research.


----------



## MyMaggieGirl

Flirt really tries to keep her eyes closed when I put the drops in. At least she doesn't run away from me! I bribe her with a treat, of course, so obviously the treat has a greater impact than trying to keep her eyes closed.

At her last exam I mentioned how she really tries to keep her eyes closed for the drops and at first the dr. thought maybe the drops irritated her eyes but then as the dr. tried to examine her, true to form Flirt tried so hard to keep them closed, little stinker! At least Flirt sits so patiently and doesn't squirm through the whole exam.


----------



## MillysMom

MyMaggieGirl said:


> MillysMom, please have those eyes checked! The runny eyes and raised spot could be iris cysts.
> 
> What to look for? The opthamologist told me to be on the lookout for eye discharge (other than morning sleepies), redness in the white of the eye mostly above the iris area, rubbing of her eyes and little brown floating things that may look like caviar - those are the cysts. Any of these symptoms require immediate attention by the opthamologist.


Thanks. Hers aren't really runny at all, just crusty in the morning. The raised brown spot is a big concern. I will make an appointment for her ASAP.

Does anyone have any ophthalmologist recommendations near Northern Virginia or Columbia, SC??


----------



## Pointgold

Another pedigree that has been publically posted as having being diagnosed with PU:

Pedigree: U-CH Ambersand's Theodore Cleaver RN, CCA CGC


*NOTE - Just to be clear, Pigmentary Uveitis is exclusive to Golden Retrievers, while _uveitis _is found in all breeds.


----------



## Tahnee GR

Thank you, Laura and Sylvia, for coming forward with this. I have thus far been very fortunate, having produced one dog so far diagnosed with PU several years ago. At the time she was first diagnosed, Golden Retriever uveitis wasn't really recognized and, because she had also had Lyme disease, there was for awhile some confusion as to what exactly she had-uveitis or, as we now call it, pigmentary uveitis. Luckily she had a very mild case that never progressed.

So far, I have not seen it in my following breedings, but that doesn't mean it isn't out there, in a mild form in a pet or lurking to come out at a later date. I have checked my breeding dogs for a long time past their breeding age (just to take a van full, instead of only one or two dogs) but will now make that a priority. We used to have a local clinic, and I always invited my pet owners, or offered to take them myself. Unfortunately, that clinic is no longer being held and it is quite a drive to the nearest specialist. I certainly do it at least once, sometimes twice a year, but am limited to the number of dogs I can fit in my van at a time. Just have to try harder now.

I fear that, like SAS, this may be one that can lay apparently dormant for several generations and then appear, apparently out of the blue. 

I do believe there are no lines of Goldens not affected by this. A DNA test is a must, since so many dogs are not diagnosed until their breeding career is over, and mild cases or carriers may never be diagnosed.

The discussions taking place now on Work Gold and Golden Breeder Forum are truly very heartening in their tone. Although breeders have been aware of the "odd" case of PU here and there, when a well-respected and influential breeder like Sylvia comes forward, the blinders are off. She and Laura have truly set the standard for going forward.


----------



## Debles

AmbikaGR said:


> I was talking to a friend whose dog was dx with PU. The dog had not been to see a specialist for several years and decided on a whim to take her. She told me how her girl would come running from rooms away as soon as she shook the bottle of eye drops. Getting the drops was even better than getting a steak to the dog. She could only imagine how long this girl had suffered with what was then obviously great pain.
> There is NO doubt in my mind that even in the mildest of cases they do suffer and the drops provide great relief.



Maybe that is why Gunner has always been so wonderful about getting his eye drops. He gets two different kinds twice a day. He comes running to the kitchen, does his downward dog stretch, then raises his face for me to drop them in. I just thought he was an angel. : )

He never did show any signs of discomfort or the redness . Our vet saw the cysts on a routine exam and referred us to our opthamologist.


----------



## ragtym

Just made an appointment for my 13 year old girl at a Cavalier specialty's health clinic. She's got one eye that seems to bother her from time to time and there is some pigment showing on the white of her eye. She doesn't ever have a colored discharge from it but she's got tear stains under it. 

The only reason that I haven't taken her in sooner is that it always seems to clear up overnight. Her regular vet has looked at both eyes several times in the last year and has only seen what he called "old dog eyes" - a bit cloudy but nothing major. Now, I am worried that I might have caused her some unnecessary pain by putting it off.  

I'll post the results once I get them.


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## Loisiana

well crap.

I think I need to get Conner seen ASAP.


----------



## Loisiana

kdmarsh said:


> Hm. Perhaps I will look into LSU doing a CERF exam with Flora, even though I can hardly afford it. So far her eyes seem fine, but this thread still raises some alarm.


 
Let me know if you find out any info on LSU's CERF exams. The website says they do monthly exams but doesn't say when. I'll have to decide between going there or going to Houston.


----------



## ragtym

Update on Faith - no PU ! 

She's got old dog cataracts and some old dog "floaties" but nothing hereditary. She's now taking an old dog nap.


----------



## Bogey's Mom

I have been following this on WorkGold but haven't read much here. I just wanted to throw in my two cents. I am a newish golden owner and had never been through any clearances before this year. I didn't know anything about them until well after we brought out first boy home and had no idea what to expect at all the various exams this year, but seeing the eye doctor was super quick, easy and painless for all involved. My dogs weren't the least bit bothered by him and I went home feeling SO much better knowing they were clear.

I'm sure it's already been mentioned in this thread, but you can have CERF exams done at dog shows for a good price. I think I paid $30 for my guys.


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## Megora

Quick question for people who have had these exams done on their dogs...

I understand the vet puts eye drops in to dilate the eyes (!). Have you had any problems afterward - dogs having problems seeing, etc... ? <- I only ask because whenever I have my eyes done they are stuck dilated for over a week. And of course my eyes hurt and sting for a day or so after getting the drops put in. <- I'm cringing about having that done to my baby. 

I contacted an eye-vet and from the sounds of it we won't get in until late October or November for a CERF exam. And it will cost $40. 

I could also schedule a regular exam for right now, but that would cost $90 for the appointment and then above that for diagnostics or meds.


----------



## Pointgold

Megora said:


> Quick question for people who have had these exams done on their dogs...
> 
> I understand the vet puts eye drops in to dilate the eyes (!). Have you had any problems afterward - dogs having problems seeing, etc... ? <- I only ask because whenever I have my eyes done they are stuck dilated for over a week. And of course my eyes hurt and sting for a day or so after getting the drops put in. <- I'm cringing about having that done to my baby.
> 
> I contacted an eye-vet and from the sounds of it we won't get in until late October or November for a CERF exam. And it will cost $40.
> 
> I could also schedule a regular exam for right now, but that would cost $90 for the appointment and then above that for diagnostics or meds.


Never have had any issues after the dogs have been dilated, in fact, at clinics held at shows I've seen dogs go into Obedience/Agility shortly after.
That said, I would not recommend that you go to Michigan Veterinary Specialists for CERF exams. Get to Dr. Ramsey, if possible.


----------



## Ljilly28

I am taking Tango, Tally, Copley, and Finn to an eye clinic this weekend that Tally's breeder is hosting. She is making sure all the dogs, pet and show, get done from her umbrella- it's awesome to see the strong, positive leadership from breeders.


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## tippykayak

Jax and Comet had their CERF exams done for $30 each at a clinic organized by the local GR club. The showed no aftereffects from the drops at all. Plus, it's fun to get to meet the influential breeders in you area.


----------



## damita

Eye Clinic being hosted by Lab Club of Manitoba just outside of Winnipeg this upcoming weekend - from what I hear there are a few spots left...

Loading up all of my gang and taking a pup I produced along as well!


----------



## Pointgold

*Just got the word...*

My Zoom's litter brother is having an eye removed tomorrow. He has PU, which was misdiagnosed as "allergies", and developed glaucoma. The orb will be sent to Wendy Townsend at Purdue. 
What a crying shame. :no:


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom

Oh Laura, how very sad. I will be saying some prayers that his surg goes well and he heals completely and quickly.


----------



## HiTideGoldens

Pointgold said:


> My Zoom's litter brother is having an eye removed tomorrow. He has PU, which was misdiagnosed as "allergies", and developed glaucoma. The orb will be sent to Wendy Townsend at Purdue.
> What a crying shame. :no:


On my....that is so sad


----------



## Pointgold

goldenjackpuppy said:


> On my....that is so sad


I cry when I look at my Zoom, and imagine what it would be like for her to lose one of her beautiful, soulful eyes... And the thought of her having pain just kills me. I feel so bad for brother Tucker.


----------



## Debles

Laura.. how bad was his glaucoma? Gunner has Glaucoma also. His pressure was up in his left eye on Monday to 27. His right eye14. In the past few months his left eye has gone up slowly even with drops. Now he is on special drops three times a day in that left eye. Praying he can keep his eyes. 

I am so sorry about Tucker. Gunner also developed tiny ulcers in each eye while being treated with prednisone drops. He is off those for awhile and getting antibiotic drops and another kind.
The opthamologist is hoping they will heal quickly and he won't be on all these drops for long. I just want my boy's eyes to be OK.


----------



## sdain31y

What age should they begin yearly testing? Thanks.


----------



## Tahnee GR

So sorry to hear this, Laura. Poor Tucker and his family, I am sure they are devastated.


----------



## Ljilly28

Pointgold said:


> Since Sylvia made her post on some of the GR breeder-oriented lists, much of the discussion is now revolving around "pet owners" not getting eye exams. Many are saying that their pet buyers just don't see the need, when they aren't having any symptoms.


Okay, because of this thread and the lists, I got Copley, Finn, and Tally examined by a eye/ cardio specialists and Cerfed at a kennel club clinic. It feels awesome to have done the responsible thing.


----------



## Pointgold

Debles said:


> Laura.. how bad was his glaucoma? Gunner has Glaucoma also. His pressure was up in his left eye on Monday to 27. His right eye14. In the past few months his left eye has gone up slowly even with drops. Now he is on special drops three times a day in that left eye. Praying he can keep his eyes.
> 
> I am so sorry about Tucker. Gunner also developed tiny ulcers in each eye while being treated with prednisone drops. He is off those for awhile and getting antibiotic drops and another kind.
> The opthamologist is hoping they will heal quickly and he won't be on all these drops for long. I just want my boy's eyes to be OK.


I'm really not sure. Sylvia only found out about this when I told her about Zoom's diagnosis. She was just sick that the owner hadn't communicated with her about it.


----------



## Debles

I am just so sorry about Tucker. But I remember you telling me when Gunner was first diagnosed, that he could live a good life even with out his eyes. I pray for that for Tucker.


----------



## Pointgold

Debles said:


> I am just so sorry about Tucker. But I remember you telling me when Gunner was first diagnosed, that he could live a good life even with out his eyes. I pray for that for Tucker.


I was reading the submission guidelines, and for an orb to have been enucleated, it would have to be very advanced glaucoma. As Tucker was being incorrectly treated, for a misdiagnosis of "allergies", for several years, I imagine it was very bad. It's just so frustrating to think that it could have been avoided had he had annual exams done.


----------



## Dallas Gold

I went online to the website of the opthamologist we use for our Toby's congenital cataracts and found these helpful links:

Links and referrals to help our animal patients and their owners:
American College of Veterinary Ophthalmologists to find Veterinary Ophthalmologists Diplomates nationwide
www.ACVO.com
Canine Eye Registration Foundation (CERF) 
www.vmdb.org/cerf.html
Veterinary Ophthalmology Information Centre
www.EyeVet.ca

The ACVO site has a search feature for finding a ACVO opthamologist by location. The last website has some helpful educational information on all sorts of eye diseases and conditions.

The local opthamologist's website has a couple of PDFs concerning cataracts and dry eye (Animal Ophthalmology Clinic :: Handouts), but nothing on PU. Next time we visit I'll definitely see if he has any information on this.


----------



## Pointgold

sdain31y said:


> What age should they begin yearly testing? Thanks.


I will be starting all of my own dogs at 6 months minimum.


----------



## tippykayak

sdain31y said:


> What age should they begin yearly testing? Thanks.


Start young. PU has not been diagnosed in very young dogs (though with greater testing, we may begin to see more cases identified earlier), but there are lots of other eye issues that are well worth knowing about in a young dog (distichia, hereditary cataracts, etc.).


----------



## Tahnee GR

Dogs can be CERF'ed beginning at one year, so I have always started at a year of age.


----------



## Pointgold

Hopefully, soon we will have a dna test available to id PU carriers. 
I am going to have youngsters examined because I want a really good base from which to compare exam results/changes from. I want to be able to pinpoint _when _changes occur. I'm considering taking litters in so that there is a clean bill of eye health given to the puppy's new owners for _them _to move forward from.


----------



## Megora

Couple questions... 

1. Let's say my golden has something going on with his eyes, like PU, how much can I expect to pay per/month/visit for treatment? 

- The reason why I'm asking is that I do not presently have my golden on pet insurance. Obviously, I'm concerned about coverage in case the vet finds something wrong. 

Keep in mind that insurance would not pay for the exam fee. And I would likely set the deductible at $150-200. 

Again, my golden has been seen by my vet many times and has never been diagnosed with anything but allergies and conjunctivitis. 

2. My guy's appointment isn't until Nov 1. This ophalmalogist is closer to home than others, but am worried that's too long a wait. I would take my guy to Michigan Vet Specialists in Southfield, as they do cerfs every third Thursday of the month, has anyone gone there?


----------



## Debles

That is a wonderful idea Laura. And so very responsible of you as a breeder and really something all breeders should do ideally.


----------



## Debles

Kate, it all depends on your opthamologist and what they charge.
I know mine is more expensive than where Molly (Finn's Fan) takes Finn. I think our first visit was around $175-200. He was placed on two kinds of drops as he had both PU and Glaucoma. 
I find out from Molly that I could get the drops at Costco, Walmart etc so the refill I had a script from the OP. Of course from the OP, the drops were very expensive. We had to go back every two weeks for awhile so it did get expensive. Eventually we weaned down to every couple months, then every 6 months. But now since Gunner went in July and his pressure was up, we are back going every couple weeks. Praying he improves quickly (He is on four different drops right now twice and three times a day)

It all depends on your OP and your dog's eye condition. But I would do anything to save my Gunner's eyes!
Wishing you very good news for your pup.


I just went back and looked at the thread when Gunner was diagnosed and it was just two years ago! I thought it was three! So much has gone on in two years it felt longer but you guys here at GRF are my rock and get me through anything.


----------



## sameli102

Laura, thank you so much for posting this information, if only all breeders were so dedicated. 

Looking at the OFA health clinic calendar there is a clinic in MD at Belquest kennels on Oct 16th. Is this a reasonable choice of where to have their exams done? Do you only need to see a recommended specialist if this exam shows a problem?


----------



## Pointgold

Megora said:


> Couple questions...
> 
> 1. Let's say my golden has something going on with his eyes, like PU, how much can I expect to pay per/month/visit for treatment?
> 
> - The reason why I'm asking is that I do not presently have my golden on pet insurance. Obviously, I'm concerned about coverage in case the vet finds something wrong.
> 
> Keep in mind that insurance would not pay for the exam fee. And I would likely set the deductible at $150-200.
> 
> Again, my golden has been seen by my vet many times and has never been diagnosed with anything but allergies and conjunctivitis.
> 
> 2. My guy's appointment isn't until Nov 1. This ophalmalogist is closer to home than others, but am worried that's too long a wait. I would take my guy to Michigan Vet Specialists in Southfield, as they do cerfs every third Thursday of the month, has anyone gone there?


It was an ACVO vet at MVS in Grand Rapids who misdiagnosed Crew as having PU, and said that we did not need to start treatment but would check him again in a year.  And because it wasn't a "regular CERF day, charged me $98.00. Per dog. So, I will only see Dr. Ramsey in Williamston.


----------



## Megora

Pointgold said:


> It was an ACVO vet at MVS in Grand Rapids who misdiagnosed Crew as having PU, and said that we did not need to start treatment but would check him again in a year.  And because it wasn't a "regular CERF day, charged me $98.00. Per dog. So, I will only see Dr. Ramsey in Williamston.


My cerf appointment is with him. And we will probably take our collie in for a regular appointment, depending on how Jack's appointment goes. 

The collie has a white mark on his eye and it is set deeper in his skull than the other eye. When we adopted him, we were told the white mark just appeared after the owners surrendered him and it possibly was an injury or caused by stress. We've watched it for the last 2 years and the eye hasn't changed and there are no signs of discomfort from him (other than him being practically blind at night). 

I was just worried about waiting (for Jack) until November. Even though next month _should_ go by fast.


----------



## Finn's Fan

Laura, your intentions about this breed are so evident in this post. Clearly, the dogs and their health is your priority; I hope that all breeders are this resoponsible, but sadly know that's not true. To weigh in on "pet" owners and eye health, I have always had my dogs seen by a veterinary opthalmologist. Cody had non-healing corneal ulcers as a senior dog. I had grid keratotomies done on him, and even got to watch! 

When I adopted Finn, he had multiple health issues, so I admit I waited until after getting his broken back repaired to get him to the opthalmologist. The whites of his eyes were often red, so rather than chalking it up to allergies, I had him examined. We're lucky in the Denver area to have some astoundingly great vet specialists. Kate, I'm charged $75 for a very complete eye exam, plus Finn loves the OP He has both allergic conjunctival folicles and early GRPU. He takes prednisolone drops every other day and is seen regular to monitor the cysts and his intraoccular pressure.

Laura, please keep beating the drum about goldens and eyes. I know several pet owners who I met after their dogs had to have an eye removed. How easy and relatively inexpensive it would've been to save those soulful eyes!


----------



## Pointgold

Megora said:


> My cerf appointment is with him. And we will probably take our collie in for a regular appointment, depending on how Jack's appointment goes.
> 
> The collie has a white mark on his eye and it is set deeper in his skull than the other eye. When we adopted him, we were told the white mark just appeared after the owners surrendered him and it possibly was an injury or caused by stress. We've watched it for the last 2 years and the eye hasn't changed and there are no signs of discomfort from him (other than him being practically blind at night).
> 
> I was just worried about waiting (for Jack) until November. Even though next month _should_ go by fast.


 
I think that Dr. Ramsey is fantastic. And I did long before the PU issue came up with my dogs. This man is passionate about his specialty, and obviously care deeply for the dogs. And he is just plain nice (and has a wicked sense of humor, too...) His office staff is wonderful, as well.
I would be concerned that the Collie had CEA (Collie Eye Anamoly or "Collie Eye") and coloboma. 
Collie Eye Defect in Dogs | PetMD


----------



## Ljilly28

Tahnee GR said:


> Dogs can be CERF'ed beginning at one year, so I have always started at a year of age.


Wait! This is kind of random and not too on topic, but I am just about to send in Copley's CERF paperwork today that the eye specialist filled out( the bubbles/SAT ish form). He is only 10 months old though. Did they get it wrong about his age?


----------



## Pointgold

Ljilly28 said:


> Wait! This is kind of random and not too on topic, but I am just about to send in Copley's CERF paperwork today that the eye specialist filled out( the bubbles/SAT ish form). He is only 10 months old though. Did they get it wrong about his age?


 
No - there IS no minimum age for CERF Certification. And puppies as young as 6 wks can be examined for inherited eye diseases.


----------



## Dallas Gold

*Questions*

As many know we adopted our Toby from a local golden rescue at 5 months of age. He came with AKC papers and a congenital cataract in one of his eyes. The rescue took him to an opthamologist who recommended annual rechecks and a daily drop of neo/poly/dex in the affected eye. As soon as we adopted him I contacted his breeder to ask questions about Toby's condition and to see if any of his siblings had a similar congential defect. The paperwork we received in our adoption packet from the rescue included copies of certificates on both parents included all clearances, including eyes. The breeder told me the first he learned of Toby's condition was when the original owners contacted him and asked for a refund. He told me at that point he decided to stop breeding the pair and he was unaware of any other littermates with congenital cataracts. I have no way of knowing if this is true because the k9data.com site doesn't show any offspring for either parent. By the way, the original owners got a refund, asked to keep Toby, and turned him into the rescue about a week later. 

Toby's been with us for 6 years and we've been diligent in getting his eyes examined annually at the local veterinary referral eye clinic. This year we went on a 6 month schedule due to our regular vet discovering the beginning of a new cataract in his good eye. 

Toby was neutered before we adopted him so there is no chance he would be bred or shown.

Obviously he would never pass a CERF test and we are not going to get a CERF certificate for him since he has the cataracts. I've never asked for a CERF exam since the exam he receives is much more comprehensive. Is there a separate form to submit for dogs that will never get a CERF certificate or pass a CERF exam? I'm a little confused about CERF reporting.

What are my other options as far as reporting this condition to a national data registry? I'll go ahead and enter Toby's data into k9data.com just to put it on the record, but should I report this elsewhere? 

As of today he does not have PU, glaucoma or anything other than a congenital cataract and a new one forming; therefore I don't think Dr. Townsend would be interested in anything regarding Toby.


----------



## HiTideGoldens

Just made my appt for Jack at a local CERF clinic. It's not for a month but that's the soonest I can get in. 

Pointgold,

Is there anything specific we need to ask about at the exam? Should we specifically mention PU? It seems that so many dogs are misdiagnosed so I want to be sure I'm covering all my bases during the limited time I'll have with the Dr.


----------



## MyMaggieGirl

goldenjackpuppy said:


> Just made my appt for Jack at a local CERF clinic. It's not for a month but that's the soonest I can get in.
> 
> Pointgold,
> 
> Is there anything specific we need to ask about at the exam? Should we specifically mention PU? It seems that so many dogs are misdiagnosed so I want to be sure I'm covering all my bases during the limited time I'll have with the Dr.


Definitely mention the PU ! ! 

As for the cost, my opthamologist is quite a bit more expensive than what others have mentioned. Her first visit was high, and I just spent $230 for her last visit, that included drops that will last only 3 months. I don't mean to scare anyone off by the cost, however. Put it on the credit card, get their eyes checked thoroughly!


----------



## HiTideGoldens

MyMaggieGirl said:


> Definitely mention the PU ! !
> 
> As for the cost, my opthamologist is quite a bit more expensive than what others have mentioned. Her first visit was high, and I just spent $230 for her last visit, that included drops that will last only 3 months. I don't mean to scare anyone off by the cost, however. Put it on the credit card, get their eyes checked thoroughly!


Do I just mention that I understand that PU is a recent issue in our breed and I want the Dr. to make certain that he/she looks for signs of PU? it seems like they should be noting these things anyway, but I just want to make sure.


----------



## MyMaggieGirl

Just curious if any of the dogs that were diagnosed by their regular vet with "allergies" (watery eyes) have had them checked by the opthamologist.

And trying to keep this an active post!


----------



## Pointgold

MyMaggieGirl said:


> Just curious if any of the dogs that were diagnosed by their regular vet with "allergies" (watery eyes) have had them checked by the opthamologist.
> 
> And trying to keep this an active post!


Thank you for that.

I would be interested, as well, to see if more dogs have actually been diagnosed as having "allergies" but ultimately have PU...


----------



## HiTideGoldens

My friend took her dog in last week. Her boy was previously mis-diagnosed with a detached retina and then later diagnosed as allergies and an eye infection by another dr. She specifically asked about PU. His eyes were clear, thankfully.


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## Pointgold

goldenjackpuppy said:


> My friend took her dog in last week. Her boy was previously mis-diagnosed with a detached retina and then later diagnosed as allergies and an eye infection by another dr. She specifically asked about PU. His eyes were clear, thankfully.


Thankfully...
Were the original misdiagnosis made by a practiioner or an ACVO vet?


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## HiTideGoldens

Pointgold said:


> Thankfully...
> Were the original misdiagnosis made by a practiioner or an ACVO vet?


The original diagnosis of detached retina was made by a ACVO vet at a dog show (one of the traveling clinics). The owner obviously needed to get the dog treated so took him to a local ACVO vet and another one for a second opinion. The two other ACVO vets saw no sign of a detached retina and both said it was a nasty eye infection, likely picked up from another dog, that was left untreated and allergies. Kind of a weird situation since he was with a handler when this happened. (Needless to say, the owner will not be using this handler again since it went unnoticed for about 3 months.) But he's fine now.


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## Megora

I need to stop reading up on PU, because it seems like the more pictures of regular uveitis (not just pu) that I see, the more I worry about my baby's eyes. And we have to wait another month.  

One question I have... what does a cyst on the eye look like? Does somebody have a picture...? 

I was putting eyedrops in Jacks' eyes (he gets saline drops every day anyway because of his allergies) and I kept looking at the edge where some of the pigment edges into the white area of his eye. My vet said that it is just pigment or it could be related to his eye irritation. But now I'm worrying about one spot being a cyst. 

I'll ask about it when I take him in... <- which reminds me... I get to be with him when the doctor looks at his eyes, right? I hate those vets where they take the dog out of your sight. 

The reason why I've always been so worried about glaucoma is because Jacks has that pigment edging thing and also his eyes look a little bloodshot. The vet said this is related to allergies and they always check for glaucoma when I bring him in, but... :[


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## MyMaggieGirl

You will be allowed in the room with your dog. At my opthamologist's office, along with the doctor, myself and the dog, they have an assistant holding the dog (if needed) and another taking notes/typing into their computer. Lots of people in a small room but not all dogs are as cooperative as Goldens usually are.


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## Megora

Hmmmmmm......

Just had my Jacks to the vet to have his eyes looked at. I have an appointment next month, but he's been having a lot of (clear) discharge from his eyes. I wanted to make sure he wasn't starting another round of conjunctivitis. 

The vet said his eyes are clear and infection free. I asked her about the pigment edges in the white area of his eyes (again). She assured me that it is perfectly normal - just pigment. I asked her to make sure she didn't see any cysts. She didn't see any and didn't see any signs of regular uveitis. 

That made me feel better until I explained why I was so concerned about cysts. 

She'd never heard of pigmentary uveitis.

She promised to do a little research and make sure that Jacks wasn't showing any early symptoms - and said she'd call me back tomorrow. 

At least she was honest. o_I


----------



## AmbikaGR

Megora said:


> Hmmmmmm......
> 
> Just had my Jacks to the vet to have his eyes looked at. I have an appointment next month, but he's been having a lot of (clear) discharge from his eyes. I wanted to make sure he wasn't starting another round of conjunctivitis.
> 
> The vet said his eyes are clear and infection free. I asked her about the pigment edges in the white area of his eyes (again). She assured me that it is perfectly normal - just pigment. I asked her to make sure she didn't see any cysts. She didn't see any and didn't see any signs of regular uveitis.
> 
> That made me feel better until I explained why I was so concerned about cysts.
> 
> She'd never heard of pigmentary uveitis.
> 
> She promised to do a little research and make sure that Jacks wasn't showing any early symptoms - and said she'd call me back tomorrow.
> 
> At least she was honest. o_I



Was this a general vet or an ophthalmologist?


----------



## Megora

AmbikaGR said:


> Was this a general vet or an ophthalmologist?


My regular/general vet. Sorry if that was unclear from my earlier comment. 

She's somebody I would go to if I'm worried about my little guy developing eye or ear infections. But er... :uhoh: 

I guess I'm keeping that eye-vet appointment next month.


----------



## AmbikaGR

You would find very few general vets that know anything about PU.


----------



## Megora

AmbikaGR said:


> You would find very few general vets that know anything about PU.


Well, mine's doing research tonight. So as of tomorrow she will know something. Maybe? :


----------



## dunevlinj

What about ciliary bodies and punctate cataracts? Do those have anything to do with PU?
Seems like there are quite a few dogs out there who have those listed on their CERF exams. How significant are they?


----------



## Ljilly28

Pointgold said:


> No - there IS no minimum age for CERF Certification. And puppies as young as 6 wks can be examined for inherited eye diseases.


Thanks, PG. You were right. His CERF number came in the mail, but the cardiac one said he was too young for a regular number, and has an under 12 months rule.


----------



## LibertyME

Kate what type of Saline do you use....the bottle or the individually sealed, preservative-free, single-use plastic vials?

The reasons I ask it that I have chronic eye dryness...
I had been using a typical bottle of saline...I happened to see a different eye doc in the practice...and she suggested I try the individual, preservative-free vials...and BINGO relief!

Turns out some folks, like myself are sensitive to the preservatives used in 'bottles' of saline...(bottles of saline ALL use perservatives).

There are some of the individual vials that are 'preservative free on contact" they STILL contain preservative...the preservative just dissapates faster. I cant use those either.

The other benefit of single use vials is that the single-use vials cant cross contaminate (unless you use one vial for both eyes).


----------



## Megora

Thought I'd update.... 



LibertyME said:


> Kate what type of Saline do you use....the bottle or the individually sealed, preservative-free, single-use plastic vials?


I have a bottle of saline that I use. The problem with the individual vials is they only have two or three drops inside of them and I have a wriggler. :uhoh: The bottle works great because I don't mind if have a couple misses before getting the drops in. 

The bottle tip never gets near his eyes, so I'm hoping that means there would be no cross-contamination. - But I did switch to a new bottle last week... just in case<:

Must share the cute and kinda flaky thing that Jacks does when I tell him "Time for eye drops". He gets this serious and almost depressed look on his face. But when I tell him, "Eyedrops, go to your spot", he _immediately_ goes across and jumps on the bed and sits there waiting for me to come over with the eye drops. He still wriggles his head around in anticipation of the drops, but will sit there on the bed until I release him. Then he does a happy fit and practically drags me to the nearest food source. <- That dog will do anything for treats. :smooch:

- I did talk with the main vet at our regular vet (last Saturday). She did emphatically repeat that they did not see any symptoms of (regular) uveitis. Or cysts <- She didn't recognize "pigmentary uveitis" either. That was a very awkward conversation where I probably sounded like some self-diagnosing nut who needs to stay away from the Veterinary Encyclopedia of Diseases.


----------



## twogoldenboys

This is so scarey and both my boys have this in their line. I have a 2 year old and a 5 month that I'm going to have CERF done. Do I need to specifically ask for a PU test or is it part of CERF. Are there any other tests I should have done while I have them with the opthamologist?


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## Megora

I just came back from Jacks' eye check.  

He has great eyes. And like my regular vet has been telling me for the past two years, he has drippy eyes because of allergies. 

And my golden has smudgy pigment around his eyes and it is as normal as the pigment that some dogs get on their tongues.

The following pic is what he looked like on the drive back home. I think he looks relieved the appointment was quick and painless.


----------



## Pointgold

Believe me, I am as relieved as you are when your dog's eye exams are normal. But please don't be lulled into thinking that they should not be checked annually. PU is being caught in dogs as young as four, as well as older dogs who have had normal checks for years. The earlier it is diagnosed the greater the chances of it being treated and preventing the progression of the disease. Please, make annual eye exams a part of your dog's routine health care.


----------



## Megora

Pointgold said:


> Please, make annual eye exams a part of your dog's routine health care.


I will. 

I mentioned the allergy dx from my vet only because the last couple months waiting for this appointment I let my imagination go a little nuts trying to guess the worst case scenario. I'm just relieved that we are back at the beginning with eye allergies. Something I can handle with regular eyedrops as I have.  

Our first golden had pretty bad cateracts. It didn't matter because he did die early (he was six) from renal failure. But we always assumed that no matter what we did, his eyes would get worse as he got older and he'd be blind at some point. 

And then our Sammy had entropion (his eyelids rolled inward) for his first few years. It corrected itself as he got older and his face started to sag, but for a while there it was one of those things where it would have been nice if it were just a matter of putting eyedrops in to make him feel better. 

But yeah... going to the vet thinking the worst and finding out it was just allergies... it made my day.


----------



## Pointgold

Megora said:


> I will.
> 
> I mentioned the allergy dx from my vet only because the last couple months waiting for this appointment I let my imagination go a little nuts trying to guess the worst case scenario. I'm just relieved that we are back at the beginning with eye allergies. Something I can handle with regular eyedrops as I have.
> 
> Our first golden had pretty bad cateracts. It didn't matter because he did die early (he was six) from renal failure. But we always assumed that no matter what we did, his eyes would get worse as he got older and he'd be blind at some point.
> 
> And then our Sammy had entropion (his eyelids rolled inward) for his first few years. It corrected itself as he got older and his face started to sag, but for a while there it was one of those things where it would have been nice if it were just a matter of putting eyedrops in to make him feel better.
> 
> But yeah... going to the vet thinking the worst and finding out it was just allergies... it made my day.


I'm glad, too. I know how it is to do that. I also, unfortunately, know how it is to take a dog in, expecting that we'll get yet another annual clearance, and finding out it's the worst.  I don't wish it on anyone.


----------



## AmberSunrise

Just sent in the check for all 3 of my goldens to be examined at a nearby clinic - Casey will be getting his first ever exam  Since he never was going to be bred, I found this entire thread very enlightening. Thanks again for posting.

Faelan and Towhee are getting repeat CERF exams.


----------



## Megora

I was happy with the ophalamogist that Pointgold recommended and will probably go back to him, but noticed that my guy's breeder held a cerf clinic at their place last spring, and will probably do the same next spring. 

I was wondering if this is something that more breeders will be doing (or if they already are), especially if they want to make sure the dogs all get checked. <- Heck, it'd work with me even if I weren't committed to getting my guy's peepers checked.


----------



## tippykayak

Megora said:


> I was happy with the ophalamogist that Pointgold recommended and will probably go back to him, but noticed that my guy's breeder held a cerf clinic at their place last spring, and will probably do the same next spring.
> 
> I was wondering if this is something that more breeders will be doing (or if they already are), especially if they want to make sure the dogs all get checked. <- Heck, it'd work with me even if I weren't committed to getting my guy's peepers checked.


My breeder sends me updates about clinics sponsored by the two local breed clubs. That's how my guys got hearts and eyes checked, actually, at a big breed club clinic. It was relatively inexpensive, and it was great to meet so many of the local breed enthusiasts and breeders.


----------



## Reno's Mom

*Also be aware of blastomycosis!*

Reading so many people comment about allergies and conjunctivitis prompts me to mention blastomycosis again.

Our Reno was diagnosed with "pink eye" a little over two years ago. When the eye drops he was prescribed failed to clear his eye he was sent to a veterinary opthomologist in Indianapolis who immediately diagnosed glaucoma from blastomycosis - Reno was already totally blind in his left eye.

In April of this year Reno lost his remaining vision. He has adapted beautifully to his blindness and walking on-lead following verbal commands one would never know he was blind.

Please don't overlook a pink or weepy eye because you've recently had a good CERF test. Blasto spores are found in moist areas such as woods, rivers and creekbeds ... All places our golden babies love.


----------



## Megora

Reno's Mom said:


> Reading so many people comment about allergies and conjunctivitis prompts me to mention blastomycosis again.
> 
> Our Reno was diagnosed with "pink eye" a little over two years ago. When the eye drops he was prescribed failed to clear his eye he was sent to a veterinary opthomologist in Indianapolis who immediately diagnosed glaucoma from blastomycosis - Reno was already totally blind in his left eye.
> 
> In April of this year Reno lost his remaining vision. He has adapted beautifully to his blindness and walking on-lead following verbal commands one would never know he was blind.
> 
> Please don't overlook a pink or weepy eye because you've recently had a good CERF test. Blasto spores are found in moist areas such as woods, rivers and creekbeds ... All places our golden babies love.


But the opthomologist doing the CERF test should be able to tell if a dog has something like that, right?


----------



## IowaGold

Megora said:


> But the opthomologist doing the CERF test should be able to tell if a dog has something like that, right?


If the dog has it at the time, but Blasto is something that they can get sick with quickly, so if you have a clear CERF exam, it's entirely possible to be exposed to Blasto the next day and develop problems even though your eye exam isn't due for another year. I think all the poster is trying to say is to not underestimate red/weepy eyes.


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## Megora

IowaGold said:


> If the dog has it at the time, but Blasto is something that they can get sick with quickly, so if you have a clear CERF exam, it's entirely possible to be exposed to Blasto the next day and develop problems even though your eye exam isn't due for another year. I think all the poster is trying to say is to not underestimate red/weepy eyes.


I understand, I was just freaking out about my golden possibly having something wrong but it not being noticed about a opthalmalogist during the exam. My guy had weepy eyes at the CERF exam and the eyevet wasn't too concerned. That's why I asked.


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## Golden123

Apparently there is a kennel club near us that does annual CERF clinics. It was held in November. I plan on doing it next year. They do it at the animal hospital about 30 min. away.


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## Haahrp

My dam has had her CERF updated this month and again came back clear. Her pedigree shows three generations back clear. The sire of this past litter also clear, and 3 generations clear. I brought the pup I kept from that breeding in for her heart and eye clearances this past month. Heart was great. Eyes, however, did not clear. She was diagnosed with cataracts on the posterior cortex of both eyes. I was so devastated. I immediately contacted the owners of the rest of those pups and encouraged them to get their pup's eyes examined by an optomologist. We were planning a repeat breeding but obviously plans have changed. Now looking for a different stud. The optomologist believes it was a recessive genetic condition. I know there are other possibilities, but if my puppy owners don't take their pups in to get their eyes checked, I can't know for sure, and it isn't worth the risk. My pup will also now be spayed. I want to be responsible. Right now I am trying to gather as much info as I can on this condition. The optomologist was 90% sure that her condition wont progress or cause any problems with her vision. I just wish I knew for sure if it was genetic. If anyone else has had experience with this type of eye condition please let me know. Thanks


----------



## Sally's Mom

The place on the lens(posterior cortex) and the age indicates that it is hereditary. Nobody is in agreement on inheritance... most things I have read say "dominant with incomplete pentrance." Which is quite the sticky wicket. The ophthalmologist I take my dogs to says she sees it all of the time in goldens... and they generally do not progress to blindness.


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## Tahnee GR

It sounds like juvenile hereditary cataracts, which are inherited but which very rarely affect the vision. Some good reading here:

cataracts - Google Search

While I certainly would not breed an affected animal, I would not be so quick to throw either the sire or dam entirely out of my breeding program. I once had a litter where all 5 males ended up with juvies, while none of the females did. My girl never again produced a juvie (we checked!), and to the best of my knowledge, neither did the sire. Of course the breeding was never repeated and I avoided the sire's lines as well.

When looking at hip and elbow dysplasia, PU, SAS and epilepsy, juvenile hereditary cataracts are not the worst problem to have produced. Definitely a learning tool though and something to avoid.


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## Haahrp

What we are thinking is that it was just the combination of those two dogs being bred. The sire's owner and I really were looking forward to this repeat but I just feel it would be too risky. Is that your feeling too? It could produce no problems, and I know I could take the pups in at 7wks to have their eyes checked. But what I'm worried about, is if there are problems again, then I've got pups on my hands that could be hard to find homes for. This will be my female's last breeding and I just want to make a responsible decision. I will most likely lose a few potential buyers who were wanting a pup from this duo. I don't think my puppy owners from this past litter will respond quick enough on getting their pups eyes checked so I have more info on all this. My girl will be coming into season by the end of this month or beginning of next. It's a frustrating situation. I know its always going to be a catch 22 with some health issue. I've been so fortunate compared to some. I have been amazed in my research how many "reputable breeders" don't have health clearances. You might see hips, but alot of times that is it.


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## allaboutourdogs

Eye problems are frequent these days. My friend's dog has cataracts on both eyes which is scary because it can cause permanent blindness


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## Ljilly28

I'm so pleased. Finn, Tally, Lush, and Copley all went to the Lewiston Auburn Kennel Club's heart and eye clinic. All four passed both with flying colors. Copley has no exceptions, no issues- thanks Ash!


----------



## Dallas Gold

allaboutourdogs said:


> Eye problems are frequent these days. My friend's dog has cataracts on both eyes which is scary because it can cause permanent blindness


Tell me about it.  Our Toby had double cataract removal surgery last Thursday. We are in the thick of a difficult recovery period because our highly energetic dog must remain calm and inactive or jeopardize the surgery results--for 8 weeks. Toby is a living example of the importance of making sure breeding dogs have clearances, including eye clearances! We adopted him from a rescue, but the next puppy will be from a breeder that provides the clearances.


----------



## heartgoldens

Great reading! If PU shows up so late, how does one attempt to eliminate it from a breeding program? Would it be overboard to stop breeding all progeny of the affected dog? Or is that warranted? There may be no definitive answer to this, but sounds like annual CERF checks and collecting as much data as possible is a good start.


----------



## enbie

My golden girl, Pennie, was just diagnosed with PU in both eyes and Glaucoma in her left eye at 7.5 years of age. I just want to say thanks for this post and to all of the breeders who are making their buyers aware! I only wish that Pennie's breeders had done the same for me, and I would have made sure to get her eyes checked annually! Now we are dealing with the worry of her losing her not only her vision, but being uncomfortable and of course the possibility of enucleation, if the condition continues to worsen. The eye drops are a lot of work, but that is not even the worse part, which for me is not knowing when she may be in pain since she has no way to "tell" us and golden retrievers are usually very stoic and do not show signs of discomfort often. For this reason, when she acts like she is in pain, it breaks my heart because I know it must be BAD! I am so sad, but I continue to treat my girl as normally as possible, including lots of walks and plenty of fetching since I worry about her fetching ability if she happens to lose her vision. I just want to tell fellow owners, my veterinarian is great, but he didn't even know the signs of PU until it came down to signs of glaucoma... don't wait, see an ophthalmologist because they are well-versed in this horrible disease! Luckily, we didn't breed Pennie, but now I am trying to get in contact with the breeders to warn them and to make sure they let their buyers know to get the dogs checked. Pennie's symptoms started similarly to a conjunctivitis infection or allergies, but escalated quickly to glaucoma. Her poor little eye had pressures 6 times higher than her other eye! I wish I had requested to see an ophthalmologist sooner, but I had no idea it could be something so serious. Get the word out, breeders and buyers, it is the only thing we can do to save this amazing breed!


----------



## SheetsSM

Took my 3 rescues in for their first eye exam--one has a congenital cataract, another distachia & the soon to be 12 yr old is perfect with just the start of senile cataracts--no signs of PU thank goodness!


----------



## MyMaggieGirl

Enbie, sorry to read of the PU diagnosis in your Pennie. My Flirty was diagnosed around age 4.5. She showed no symptoms but her breeder took her for a CERF exam where they discovered it. We adopted her shortly after diagnosis knowing what the end result could be. I did a lot of research online and got her in to see the opthamologist pronto who started her on Diclofenac drops which we faithfully used until last summer when the secondary glaucoma hit. Unfortunately she lost one eye in July and then the second eye in October (both were enucleated). We tried to save them without luck.

You are right, it is very painful to them. In retrospect, Flirty's behavior began to change about a month or two prior to the glaucoma flare up and now we realize she was having minor discomfort. She became nervous, frightened, just a general unsettled girl which was not normal for her. Her eyes didn't look any different which is why I didn't think to have her eyes checked. One day she work up squinting and holding her head up to the sky as if she were looking for something and was panting, obviously in pain. Gunnie's mom on the Forum was able to answer a few of my questions and I reached the opthamologist by phone. Of course it was a Saturday so we took her to the emergency vet who contacted my opthamologist for treatment instructions. One thing they do to bring the pressure down is administer an i.v. of mannitol over the course of a couple hours which really did help. We ended up having that eye removed a few days later.

My worry was how long until the other eye would go and the opthamologist said it's the luck of the draw. Some dogs never have an issue with the remaining eye and that is what we prayed for but we weren't so lucky. Ten weeks later she lost her second eye.

I can tell by your post that you are worried and nervous. Try to relax about it and follow doctor's orders with the drops. Give her a high value treat after the drops if she is uncooperative. I was fine until that first flare up but after the surgery I was ok about it. Now with the second enucleation, that's when it hit me. I have a blind dog oh no!!! She has adapted SO well. Sometimes I think she can see by some of the things she does. 

Sorry this is so long, it does me good to talk about it even after all these months! I'm just so proud of her and every day she doesn't cease to amaze me with how well she is doing.

Good luck, and feel free to send me an email if you need some support.


----------



## AmberSunrise

My dogs just had their eye exams.

Casey, who will be 13 before month end (mar 29th), has a 'suspicious' mass in the left eye. 95% of such masses are benign but it should be watched. Now at 13 years old the choices are more difficult ...


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom

Praying for Casey, that the mass is benign and not worrisome to her. Hugs to you.


----------



## hotel4dogs

Sharon, I'm sorry to hear that. I hope it's nothing *important*.


----------



## Ljilly28

Oh, I so hope Casey's mass is just a watch and wait, that will cause no trouble.


----------



## newport

I had Lola in for her yearly exam yesterday... she is just turned 4. I asked the vet if doing an eye exam is important... he said most likely she would never need one and that in this area (Seattle, WA.) he has never seen the condition in all the Goldens he sees. What do YOU think I should do? I just want the best for her.


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## Tahnee GR

I would have her checked by a veterinary opthamologist and ask his/her recommendation on follow up visits. The last recommendation I read was for pets to have a check up around 3 or 4, and then periodically after that.

General practice vets are not specialists and see only a very small percentage of a breed in one area. My own vet, who I respect a lot, misdiagnosed my girl with Horner's because he was not that familiar with it. The specialist OTOH diagnosed it immediately.

You can find listings for clinics at Orthopedic Foundation for Animals or at Dog/Canine Health Test Clinic Schedule


----------



## Vhuynh2

newport said:


> I had Lola in for her yearly exam yesterday... she is just turned 4. I asked the vet if doing an eye exam is important... he said most likely she would never need one and that in this area (Seattle, WA.) he has never seen the condition in all the Goldens he sees. What do YOU think I should do? I just want the best for her.



I am in Seattle. When I brought Molly in for her first vet visit as a 9 week old puppy, the vet told me that starting at the age of four, I should be taking Molly to an ophthalmologist for yearly screening because she's a golden retriever and because of PU. My new vet tells me that PU is not something a general practitioner can detect. In an issue of GR News, I had read that the PNW is a hotspot for PU. A golden breeder I had talked to also said the same thing. Molly is only 2, but is going in next month for her annual visit with the ophthalmologist.


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## AmberSunrise

This thread came up again and I feel I need to elaborate on this post.

Casey was never used for breeding, but did have eye exams. The sucker punch feeling I had walking out of that exam room that day had me torn with my options - I was in tears and several really good people helped me come to peace with my decisions that day. I knew it was not good and I 'knew' suspicious was the proper term.

It was at that point I started preparing to enjoy each and every day, even more, that my Casey chose to stay with me. This was a year after I thought I was going to lose him in Mar 2013. 

He shared my life for an additional 3 months after that eye exam, happy and active to the very end ---

My point? This eye exam gave me the fore knowledge that our time together was nearing the end and I got to spoil him and enjoy him tremendously, extra hikes, extra food, helping him onto my bed each night, games, training etc, all the while knowing I would not let him suffer - he did not and chose to go with dignity and grace.

Another argument for having the exams done with our older dogs.



Sunrise said:


> My dogs just had their eye exams.
> 
> Casey, who will be 13 before month end (mar 29th), has a 'suspicious' mass in the left eye. 95% of such masses are benign but it should be watched. Now at 13 years old the choices are more difficult ...


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## Megora

newport said:


> I had Lola in for her yearly exam yesterday... she is just turned 4. I asked the vet if doing an eye exam is important... he said most likely she would never need one and that in this area (Seattle, WA.) he has never seen the condition in all the Goldens he sees. What do YOU think I should do? I just want the best for her.


My regular vet where I take my Jacks... she actually had never heard of PU and promised that she would go look it up and get back with me to let me if it was a concern with Jacks (who has a lot of pigment on sclera and he has very dark eyes so couldn't tell if that pigment was JUST on the sclera). 

I suspect a lot of regular vets out there who are not also golden retriever owners and involved with golden retriever clubs.... they are not going to really "get" the whole push to have yearly eye checks with these dogs. 

Even other breed people are "surprised" by the huge turnouts when the local golden retriever club has a eye clinic. In the opinion of other breed people, you only have the eye cerfs done if you are breeding the dog. And that's just a 1 time thing.

But long schpeel short - I'd have the eyes checked around 1-2 years to check for cataracts or any conditions like that. 

Age 3+ - yearly cerfs to check for any eye cysts or development of PU is important.

Eye cerf = $35-45 bucks. Probably cheaper than most vet visits.


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## Claire's Friend

We need to keep this in the top 10 !!


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## cubbysan

I went to an awesome talk given at our local veterinary ophthalmologist this week for our club.

She showed us plenty of pictures of what different conditions looked like and what the prognosis would be and the importance of OFA testing the eyes. I guess they no longer use CERF. She explained how most of the breeder options are nothing to worry about. And of course the pain that a dog with PU is in if it turns into glaucoma.

The number one thing she emphasized was if you think anything is going on, see a vet ophthalmologist immediately. It can save their sight.

We also had a tour of her facility, operating room, etc.


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## Ljilly28

I am taking four of my five to the local kennel clinic eye clinic on Sunday, and I was able to convince some of our pet golden clients to screen eyes too. I think once people understand the dangers, they will jump right in and participate, but I agree PU is unknown to the general public or even general practice vets. My Copley has a bad case, but my vet cant see much with her regular equipment, and only the specialist can even see the problems in his eyes.


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## Ljilly28

Next year, I even think I will gather the Lush pups in the local area aand take them for Cerfs too at my expense. Treatment goes such a long way with PU.


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## Sally's Mom

Our practice sent out a flyer to more than three hundred clients with Goldens this Spring to emphasize the importance of annual eye exams for ANY dog, rather breeding ,etc... Only three owners showed up...


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## GoldenCamper

I was dreading this years exam as Fiona showed very early signs of PU at last years clinic. She recently turned 12 last week and thankfully there has been absolutely no change for the worse. Dr Marrion is wonderful, answers all questions, no rushing, a real pro and well regarded by many. Doing a happy dance here 

Really surprised only 3 people showed Janice. There must have been a hundred dogs at the one I went to, plenty of other dogs besides Goldens. For a 35 dollar clinic to see a DAVCO I don't know why more people take advantage of it. I pay almost twice that to see my regular vet.

If anyone wonders about the change in the form here is a FAQ. The changes surprised me at first now being called the Companion Animal Eye Registry. Glad they got rid of all the fill in the circle stuff on the old form 

Orthopedic Foundation for Animals


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## Megora

> Really surprised only 3 people showed - For a 35 dollar clinic to see a DAVCO I don't know why more people take advantage of it. I pay almost twice that to see my regular vet.


 I think the reason is a lot of people pinch pennies when it comes to stuff they don't think is necessary or important. And from dog training to practical health a lot of people will pinch pennies like you'd never believe.

*** Other reason is probably less critical. I never do health clinics at shows or even when offered by the local golden club. Simply because I prefer to take my guys to the guy I always take them to.


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## Brave

I'm waiting to confirm Bear's eye appointment. Down here we're quoted $95 for the exam unless they see something and then we could rack up a few hundred. I'm nervous as all get out. 

Though, another reason people don't go is because there seems to be serious lack of communication and education. My vet didn't advocate for any eye screening. And the receptionist for the local ophthalmologist was surprised I was bring my 2 year old in when he has no symptoms or signs of a problem. 

Luckily husband agrees $95/year to try to catch a possibly serious problem is totally worth it.


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## Megora

Jen - is that a regular appointment or a cerf?

Cerfs should only be $35-45.


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## Brave

Well when I called i asked for an exam for PU since it's common in GR and they told me their exam prices are all the same flat $95 unless they need additional diagnostic tests.


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## MyMaggieGirl

So glad that you are having them checked!!


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## Megora

Brave said:


> Well when I called i asked for an exam for PU since it's common in GR and they told me their exam prices are all the same flat $95 unless they need additional diagnostic tests.


When you call - ask for OFA's. 

I just took our collie in to have a specialist check his eyes which are starting to get foggy. <- I was pretty sure it was NS (old age stuff), but since collies have more eye issues than goldens even - I wanted the specialist to check them out. That cost me about $120 (regular exam). OFA's same place are $45.


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## Brave

Megora - you were totally right!!! I called again and it's $61 for CERFs. I found another ophthalmology vet that has a clinic mid-November and the CERFs are only $30 (versus $70 regular price)!!! I booked it. Yay!!!!


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## lhowemt

Excellent! We did the local eye clinic last spring. $35 a dog. It was our first time doing any sort of clearance. Now we will do them all and always. Pearl looked good but Lila has non-degenerative cataracts.

Pearl's cardiac cert turned up a teeny weeny murmur. Nothing to worry about, we were told. I am glad to know.


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## hotel4dogs

It seems like a good time to bump this thread up so that everyone who hasn't seen it can read the first post.
Please, please get your dog's eyes checked annually, even if they are never bred.


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## tikiandme

Today I took Cosmo to an ACVO opthamologist for an OFA eye certification exam. No problems were detected. What a relief! Tomorrow is his birthday, so we have another reason to celebrate!


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## Deech

*Ophthalmologist Check Up*



hotel4dogs said:


> It seems like a good time to bump this thread up so that everyone who hasn't seen it can read the first post.
> Please, please get your dog's eyes checked annually, even if they are never bred.


Thank you so much for being clear about this disease and who needs screening. I will make an appointment for my girl next week.


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## Ljilly28

Just did 5 dogs with 5 lear eyes, including 13 year old Finn. I never take it for granted after having PU diagnosed in a 2 year old with no symptoms and formerly passing eyes. I am so thankful for heart and eye clinics that make it easy and pretty affordable.


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## SheetsSM

Took advantage of the eye clinic & PU study for my seniors at this year's National. Thankfully at the age of almost 10 years & 14 years, we're PU free & have nothing more than changes in the eyes associated w/ old age--we'll take that!


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## faiththegolden

Thank you for sharing! Good information


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## pattysnyder

I've read that Goldens are prone to blindness and that there is a pretty reasonable likelihood that at least some problems with eyesight will occur during the dog's lifespan. Thanks for the personal and informative info, I was wondering if anyone had a best guess as to the median age that these symptoms are most likely to occur. I'm trying to hedge my bets with pet care costs and avoid insurance until it's absolutely necessary (or avoid it altogether). Thanks!


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## Prism Goldens

A great time for this to pop up again- especially the first post....
Age to do eye exams- I do them at clinics twice in the first 18 months then yearly after that. Why twice? Because eyes are one thing I cannot judge for myself- when I keep a puppy, he or she is going to be doing lots of work in early life, and later, and I don't want to miss anything relevant to that work being done well. If you go to clinics (just looked to see where you are so later I can look up for you but betting someone near to you already knows which shows offer... my sister is in Burlington!) anyway- clinics are very affordable. Usually less than $40 and that's for a full eye exam. There's no median age that would cover all eye problems- cataracts can come up at any age, dystichia too- iris cysts you would want to watch especially if they are pigmented, and so on- there is no magic age to start doing exams and save your $$ by starting later. It's smarter to start now.


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## cubbysan

pattysnyder said:


> I've read that Goldens are prone to blindness and that there is a pretty reasonable likelihood that at least some problems with eyesight will occur during the dog's lifespan. Thanks for the personal and informative info, I was wondering if anyone had a best guess as to the median age that these symptoms are most likely to occur. I'm trying to hedge my bets with pet care costs and avoid insurance until it's absolutely necessary (or avoid it altogether). Thanks!


What is even worse than the blindness, is dogs with PU feel like they have a migraine all day, every day. We had an ophthalmologist give a talk and told us many times when a dog is treated for PU, it becomes very playful again.


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## Merlins mom

I've been taking Merlin for yearly exams since he was 4. Now at almost 9 years old the first changes have been detected. Small cataract in one eye, and possibly the beginnings of PU in the other eye. We are starting on Pred Acetate drops in both eyes 3x per week, and I was also given information on OcuGlo supplements. They are expensive (about $75 a month), but I will start them and see where he is for his next check up in 6 months. 

If not for this forum I doubt I would have known that much about PU. Thank you GRF!


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## Pammie

Can you tell me how to look up where clinics are held? I have a ophthalmologist about 1 hour away that I can use, but wouldn't mind a lower cost clinic option.
My dogs grandfather was recently diagnosis with early stage PU at age 9. I think I really should start getting the exams for Bryley. 



Prism Goldens said:


> A great time for this to pop up again- especially the first post....
> Age to do eye exams- I do them at clinics twice in the first 18 months then yearly after that. Why twice? Because eyes are one thing I cannot judge for myself- when I keep a puppy, he or she is going to be doing lots of work in early life, and later, and I don't want to miss anything relevant to that work being done well. If you go to clinics (just looked to see where you are so later I can look up for you but betting someone near to you already knows which shows offer... my sister is in Burlington!) anyway- clinics are very affordable. Usually less than $40 and that's for a full eye exam. There's no median age that would cover all eye problems- cataracts can come up at any age, dystichia too- iris cysts you would want to watch especially if they are pigmented, and so on- there is no magic age to start doing exams and save your $$ by starting later. It's smarter to start now.


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## solinvictus

up and coming clinics

Orthopedic Foundation for Animals


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## Pammie

Thank you Solinvictus :thanks:


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## hotel4dogs

When you know for sure if it is PU, please notify the breeder. The only way we have any hope of finding the genetic link is if people are upfront and honest about affected dogs. If you would, put it on K9data, too, under honorifics, put "pigmentary uveitis". That way the people trying to track the pedigrees that have had PU can find it. Thanks!




Merlins mom said:


> I've been taking Merlin for yearly exams since he was 4. Now at almost 9 years old the first changes have been detected. Small cataract in one eye, and possibly the beginnings of PU in the other eye. We are starting on Pred Acetate drops in both eyes 3x per week, and I was also given information on OcuGlo supplements. They are expensive (about $75 a month), but I will start them and see where he is for his next check up in 6 months.
> 
> If not for this forum I doubt I would have known that much about PU. Thank you GRF!


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## Merlins mom

I would if I could!! Merlin's "breeder" was a backyard breeder and they haven't answered emails in years. I do know the person that has his brother and notified her so she could take him for an exam.





hotel4dogs said:


> When you know for sure if it is PU, please notify the breeder. The only way we have any hope of finding the genetic link is if people are upfront and honest about affected dogs. If you would, put it on K9data, too, under honorifics, put "pigmentary uveitis". That way the people trying to track the pedigrees that have had PU can find it. Thanks!


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## mdmoore

Thanks for posting this, its really helpful to those of us looking to buy a pup soon


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## Cheysmom

How ironic, I just received an email this morning from the animal assisted therapy organization where my golden and I are certified, notifying us that if we register we can be seen by a local board certified opthamologist for annual eye exams FREE because she is a therapy dog...this is for service dogs as well. And then I read this post. Thank you so much for posting, for being so open and forthright and doing the right thing. I live by those words and I'm so glad to find others who feel the same way. I wish the breeder where I got my pup from had your morals and ethics. She produced a pup with severe SAS and yet continued to breed and sire and dam...makes me absolutely nauseous.


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## danielco

What does this mean?
TESTED: 2015: NORMAL W/BREEDER OPTIONS NOTED
G1:Retinal Dysplasia - Folds


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## Prism Goldens

The retina is one of the earliest body parts to develop- it forms from part of the earliest version of the neural tube, which will become the spinal cord,brain, nervous system. Eyes are amazing.
So what the retina does is take in light and converts it to an electrical signal that the brain receives and interprets as vision. When retinal dysplasia is the diagnosis, it means that the very early development of the retina was not successful and folds resulted from the layers not adhering correctly embryologically. The neural tube- also amazing. Retinal folds are congenital, they are there at birth - actually before birth- and they do not get worse to my knowledge. The condition causes small areas of blindness most likely... most breeds do NOT list it as a B/O because the it does tend to follow a genetically determined heritability but Golden Retrievers still have it listed as a Breeder's Option, which usually means it is not thought to be genetic in origin. My guess on that is most neural tube defects are not genetic, so it was lumped in with all the others. For instance, the tendency to have clefts is not something you'd consider genetic- or the tendency to have black spot phenomenon- but retinal dysplasia does seem (to me) to run in pedigrees, so perhaps the tendency for the very primitive neural tube not to form the retina correctly is genetic. It's something like any other B/O to study carefully, be sure you are ok with the condition before buying something that comes from a dog with it ,because you might get it. Most B/O are nothing to worry about otoh.


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## AmbikaGR

I will add my limited knowledge to the retinal folds, dysplasia, detachment conversation. I have an 8 year old that has retinal dysplasia, that is one step beyond retinal folds. She was diagnosed at 8 weeks of age and the concern was it could progress to retinal detachment which would mean there would be no vision at all in that eye. I was told that it could progress up till she was about 1 year of age so we did several eye clinics that first year to track it's development. Fortunately it stabilized by the age of 9 months. She has what is best described as an island of blindness in a sea of vision in that eye. So from my experience i would think it might be possible for folds to progress similarly during that first year. The other thing I have had folds be present one year and not there another. this is the same dog and it was the other eye. It was also the same ophthalmologist who did and then did not see the folds. And every time her eyes are check I have all the previous exam papers with me as a reference. So I know they can be difficult at times to even detect. A couple of others in the same litter also have been diagnosed with folds. 
Lastly even with the retinal dysplasia she has NEVER experienced any quality of life issues. She has had a rather active life with doing obedience, field and nose work.


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## Max209

Lots of great posts in this thread, and at 18 pages of comments it's obviously a great concern and a terrible disease.
Just wanted to post some links to good information about the disease:


Pigmentary Uveitis in Golden Retrievers - Eye Care for Animals - Eye Care for Animals


Golden Retriever Pigmentary Uveitis @ Animal Eye Care


Searching GRCA website for "Uveitis" gives this list of 9 links:


https://www.grca.org/?s=uveitis


GRCA "Intro to PU" (last updated 2013)
https://www.grca.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/IntroPigmentaryUveitis.pdf


GRCA re importance of eye screening in ALL Goldens
http://grca.dcwdhost.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/PigmentaryUveitisLettertoOwners.pdf


Human Uveitis page, but has a nice diagram and explanation of the anatomy and parts involved:
https://nei.nih.gov/health/uveitis/uveitis


Apologizing if all those links add up to "TMI"


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## TheRocky

This is great information. Thanks for sharing this here, very helpful


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## Rion05

So for some reason I got to thinking about PU today, went searching k9data a bit - which was interesting, but does not show as clear a patterns as one might like...so I would like to ask - in 10 years, what have we learned? 

How genetic is PU? If PU is detected in a sibling of a dog, for instance, but that dog doesn't have it - are his progeny safe? What do we understand about the genetics? Are environmental factors involved? Looking at k9data, the genetics don't appear simple, at all, but I thought that I read that a study was coming out recently or soon that would explain more - does anyone have a link to that study? 

I love this breed and this is a concerning condition. Thank you!


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## Megora

Rion05 said:


> How genetic is PU? If PU is detected in a sibling of a dog, for instance, but that dog doesn't have it - are his progeny safe? What do we understand about the genetics? Are environmental factors involved? Looking at k9data, the genetics don't appear simple, at all, but I thought that I read that a study was coming out recently or soon that would explain more - does anyone have a link to that study?


Kinda good points here.... it's things I've wondered about while listening to people who have dealt with it.

The breeder for my babies - when I asked about it, she straight out said it's inbreeding.

But I've wondered a little when people have multiple dogs generations apart, who are completely unrelated, develop PU. <= It's a rare condition. So for it to show up more than once in the same home with completely unrelated dogs... that's like lightning striking the same spot twice?

There some cancers which I think are the same. You can't ask about it because the owners are already completely heartbroken.

PU I think people would LOVE it if there was some kind of environmental or diet caused condition triggering PU. But I'm sure they've all been looking and not finding it. Or not finding anything they are willing to point out or address.


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## Rion05

So I get the annual eye exams, the genetic testing...but even after all of that testing...from what I understand, it is still out there...lurking. I see no genetic test for PU, however. Also, not sure we are clear on the genetics, either. Yes, I see some cases where multiple generations have reported it (responsibly) - but is it one-sided? Or does it take something from both parents? In some pedigrees, it appears to come out of the blue. Also, not everyone is as up front as some of the responsible folks here about sharing when it has cropped up, usually when a dog is older. Would love to see if we've learned more - am I crazy that there was supposed to be a study coming out?

And let's face it...in some cases dogs need to get old enough to GET PU...some of the dogs that died young simply may not have yet developed it. Also, some cases seem easily managed - are those dogs still removed from breeding programs? Who that they are related to must also be related? Siblings? All offspring? Or do we know? 

I also know it is more complicated that just finding an iris cyst...had a dog with an iris cyst that was benign for all of his 14.5 years and could see the day he died. Yet some dogs with iris cysts get PU, so it is more complicated than that. This just seems like a frustrating condition and my heart goes out to the dogs and owners affected.


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