# Frustrated with food options for 16 week old...



## DeNovo206 (Oct 24, 2013)

Hi,

We've been lurking on this board for awhile, reading lots of helpful threads on diet and nutrition for Goldens. We're pretty well-versed in a lot of the issues from when our other golden (we put him down recently due to lymphoma at 9 years) had GI issues as a pup throughout adulthood.

Our little guy, De Novo, is 16 weeks old today, and when we brought him home at 10 weeks from the breeder, she had him on some type of prescription puppy kibble that is now discontinued. She gave us a large ziplock bag of that food (which he didn't seem to care for), to transition to whatever we chose to feed him. Unfortunately, we've been striking out continuously on the dry kibble. We tried Blue Buffalo Life Protection for Puppies since he really seemed to like it. It ended up being too rich for him, and after a couple of vet visits for tests (negative on all fronts) due to diarrhea, we narrowed the issue down to his food. The vet hypothesized that the Blue Buffalo was too rich for him, and placed him a Hills Prescription Diet W/D to firm up his stools and to get his GI tract more normal.

So, we went back and did more research, and settled on Orijen Puppy. Only problem is we're having the same issue with the food being rich. We hadn't finished slowly transitioning when he started having diarrhea again. His poops slowly got more and more liquidity despite the ratios between the W/D and Orijen being close to the same (1/2 cup W/D + 1/3 cup of Orijen x 3 feedings a day).

We also live on the 6th floor of an apartment in an urban area, so carrying a 23 pound puppy down the elevator and out a block and a half away to the nearest decent patch of grass, multiple times throughout the night, has been arduous and stressful to say the least. But it certainly beats the alternative of him getting the runs inside.

For now, we're back to the W/D until he firms up again and we visited the pet store yesterday and in a moment of weakness and frustration, picked up a bag of Earthborn Holistic Grain Free (Meadow Feast) that was recommended by the sales clerk. Feedback on the EB seems mixed like it is for most brands, some do well, some don't. Does anybody have any advice to share? Our main concern is that we've had him for six weeks and he hasn't really been on a consistent kibble, except for the W/D, where he has a firm poop. And the vet doesn't believe that the W/D is a long-term feeding solution because its just supposed to get him normal again, which it always thankfully does...

Just at wit's end trying to figure out a feeding solution, at least until he's a year age before we try anything richer like Orijen or Acana. Any advice or empathy would be greatly appreciated! And I'd definitely attach some photos of him if I weren't at work!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Pro Plan worked very well for my munchkin.  

To this day (knock on wood)... no diarrhea, etc...


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

I'm with Megora. Pro plan worked well for our pup. Good luck with the search!


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

I would go with a more traditional, not so rich food. Max did very well on Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy Food. It is low residue and he had very firm stools with it. We did not put him on grain fee until about 18 months old.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I don't care for using grain free with puppies. I like NutriSource LBP, and have heard a lot of good reviews for ProPlan.


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## Ripley16 (Jan 26, 2012)

I had similar problems with Ripley, but her problems started using Hills large breed puppy from the vet. One of its main ingredients is corn, and she is very sensitive too it. We then tried switching her from the Hills to Blue Buffalo, which was a complete bust! Wayyyy to rich for her sensitive stomach. I then talked to a friend of my moms, who had similar problems with her springer spaniel, and switched her onto Canidae all life stages. We did the same, and did this cold turkey, because her stools were already so bad, that we wanted to get the other foods out of her system, and it was a miracle! after 48 hours, we had healthy stools, and she was perky and full of energy! Another food I would look at is Natural Balance. The Original Ultra Premium formula is really good as well. So is Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy, and Nutrience Large Breed Puppy. I would stay away from anything by Science Diet, Medi-Cal or Royal Canin at this point. Their ingredient lists are pretty sad. Many of the first ingredients are rice, corn and other fillers as well. When buying a food, try to stay away from any foods with chemicals in the first 10 ingredients. Also, have a product such as "chicken meal" is actually better than having "chicken" as your first ingredient, seeing as Chicken alone has alot of water in it, making it weigh more, and Chicken meal, is chicken, with much of the water removed from it. Pound for pound, you get more meat with Chicken meal opposed to just Chicken alone. This is the same for all meat product "meals". My rule of thumb is that the first 3 ingredients should be either meat or veg, and the next 7 can include rice , barley ect and more veg.


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## Wenderwoman (Jan 7, 2013)

I never really had a problem with my puppy. I actually fed her a mix of Eukanuba large breed puppy and Blue Grain Free. She had terrible skin issues for the first three months so, by recommendation by someone at the pet store, I added about a tablespoon of plain oatmeal to her morning food. I heard that pumpkin is good for both diarhhea and constipation but never needed to try it.

I hope it all works out for you.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Since you know the so called "better" high end, grain free foods are apparently too rich for your puppy, I agree with the suggestions already made to try Pro Plan, Natural Balance or Nutro Natural Choice. The foods that are considered better quality are not necessarily the right food for every dog. 

I would also advise you to pick one food and keep him on it for at least a month to give his system time to adjust and find out if the food will work for him. Switching him multiple times is probably contributing to his digestive issues.


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

It's so hard to recommend a certain food because what works for some causes problems for others. ProPlan works for so many but when I tried the Sensitive Skin & Stomach formula for Hank it caused anal itchies/licking (wasn't anal glands problem) that I had to take him off it, Wellness, the same problem (finally narrowed it down to the salmon). Finally went cold-turkey to Blue Buffalo and he did great, not so much as one loose stool and has been on it ever since. We were switchig due to a recall so I had no choice.

I hope you can find a kibble that works for your guy.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Orijen is the one food my guys can't eat, and I really want them to too. It is just too much for their stomachs. I agree that Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy and Pro Plan work great. We feed Fromm Puppy Gold here with no problem as well. What does your vet think about trying a simple, single ingredient pepcid( the oldest fashioned one) before breakfast?


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## Nertz71 (Sep 16, 2013)

*Having the same problem*

Hey...Im glad you mentioned this subject cause Im having the same problem...And its driving me crazy! Coral arrived 2 month ago and since then were fighting diarrea...and we havent won this war!
We tried everything...antibiotics...fenbendazole..and other types of medication....and all types of food the vet told us to give her....royal canin...specific...specific for digestion problems... And were still having problems  after readins this posts...I think im going to try nutro...! Hope it works...cause i dont know whatelse to do...


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## DeNovo206 (Oct 24, 2013)

Thanks to everyone for the advice thus far. We've certainly researched Purina Pro Plan in the past, but will give it another look. Nutrisource looks promising and they stock it at a few stores within a reasonably close distance. We forgot to mention that we also have been using a spoon of canned pumpkin (used it with our last golden along with spoonful of organic yogurt) with his food. Can't say its really helped or hurt De Novo... But we've also been using a 1/4 tbsp of probiotic with his food too, and it obviously hasn't really helped...

Have not asked the Vet about using Pepcid, will remember that next time he goes in for shots. The interesting about W/D is that he does so well on it! So he's obviously (or apparently) not allergic to corn or some of the other arguably controversial ingredients contained in it. His poops are super firm and a good shape and size. In fact, they're almost too hard at times (or so it seems). We'll be sure to post some updates on what we end up going with... Thanks again!!


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

has the vet mentioned a 12-24 hour fast followed by a bland diet with a probiotic and gradual introduction back to kibble?


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## DeNovo206 (Oct 24, 2013)

The Vet wasn't a huge fan of the 12-24 hour fast because he's a puppy and its critical that he gets all the nutrition possible. That's why she prescribed the W/D... She is a proponent of probiotic and we've certainly been using it in each meal, although to what success it's difficult to gauge...


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## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

Another vote for pro plan or Eukanuba.


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## DeNovo206 (Oct 24, 2013)

mylissyk said:


> Since you know the so called "better" high end, grain free foods are apparently too rich for your puppy, I agree with the suggestions already made to try Pro Plan, Natural Balance or Nutro Natural Choice. The foods that are considered better quality are not necessarily the right food for every dog.
> 
> I would also advise you to pick one food and keep him on it for at least a month to give his system time to adjust and find out if the food will work for him. Switching him multiple times is probably contributing to his digestive issues.


I agree with your statement, but how long should an owner feed their puppy one brand of food when it continuously gives them diarrhea? Clearly, if something isn't working, what's the point in continuing to feed them that brand?


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## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

I know raw isn't for everyone, but we had the same problems you had (lived on the 3rd floor of an apt) and just couldn't handle the constant episode of squirts our boys got on the different brands of kibble we tried. It seemed like the only ones that didn't give them diarrhea were things like beneful, which I wasn't comfortable feeding. I'm sure we could have found a food I was happy with after enough research, but I threw in the towel with kibble and said screw it I'm home-feeding. So raw it is, no tummy troubles since. Like I said - it's not for everyone. Its more work and you have to do your homework first, but once you get it down its not bad at all. Best of luck!


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## DeNovo206 (Oct 24, 2013)

Here's some pictures of De Novo:


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

This is off topic, but I just wanted to say how cool the name DeNovo is!


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## DeNovo206 (Oct 24, 2013)

We just wanted to update and say that we decided to go with a brand called Tuscan Natural Chicken Meal and Rice. It's approximately $11 for a 5 pound package (I think a 30+ lb package is $45?), and is supposed to be a pretty basic meal with not a whole lot of different components. We've been transitioning for about 2.5 days now, and so far so good! Poops are small, nice and firm, and he seems to go less frequently. Also using a scoop of canned pumpkin warmed in the microwave along with some probiotics. We're cautiously optimistic


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## DeNovo206 (Oct 24, 2013)

Just thought that I would update anyone still tracking this post that the Tuscan Natural was not a success... =( That said, we have received much more information from the breeder as to what he was being fed when he got him--Veterinary Formula by Arkat (discontinued, and apparently mainly popular in the Southern U.S.), and I did get in touch with one of his litter mate's parents who said that she was feeding his brother Merrick Buffalo and Sweet Potato, and he was doing great on it! So, because DeNovo was having issues with the Tuscan, we put him on the straight Hills Prescription W/D until he firmed up and am now slowly transitioning to the Merrick Buffalo/Sweet Potato. 

Seems to be going well so far. Also adding a tbsp of plain yogurt. While his poops seem to be bigger, they have good form and shape. Obviously the true test will in a couple weeks, but we're hoping if it works for his brother it may work with him...:crossfing


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

I hope DeNovo is doing well on merrick!!


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## DeNovo206 (Oct 24, 2013)

oakleysmommy said:


> I hope DeNovo is doing well on merrick!!


Thank you! DeNovo is...well, we're cautiously optimistic about the Merrick, but don't want to jinx ourselves again. We're well almost into week 3 of the transition, and while we've had a couple of episodes of loose stool, we upped the W/D more and lowered the Merrick amount immediately following these episodes to get him back on track. Currently, he's at 1/2 cup of W/D with 1/2 cup of Merrick, three times a day, and his poops are decent. We're hoping to start dialing back the W/D by Friday... 

Here's some more recent pics of our little guy:


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Good news. A few loose stool with a puppy is normal their intestines are diff than ours. My pups are firm but the last but always softer. I add a tablespoon pure pumpkin from petsmart daily. It's called Fruitables.


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## DeNovo206 (Oct 24, 2013)

Argh. So all bets are off on the food. We had another stool sample done yesterday and they called us today to report that he tested for giardia and roundworm. =(

Picking up his meds later today. Looks like the course of treatment will require him to stay only on the W/D until he's cleared up. Nevertheless, we're relieved to finally have gotten an answer as to what's been causing his chronic bouts of diarrhea—guess it wasn't the food after all...


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

So frustrating. Giardia is tough. Tylan powder worked for me with the prescription food. It will clear up. Hang in there 


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## DeNovo206 (Oct 24, 2013)

oakleysmommy said:


> So frustrating. Giardia is tough. Tylan powder worked for me with the prescription food. It will clear up. Hang in there
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Thanks Oakley'sMommy. The Vet prescribed Panacur for three days, then two weeks later another three days, followed by another fecal exam 10 days after the last dosage. We found some older threads on other pups who had both Giardia and roundworm, so we're optimistic this will pass. It certainly explains his smaller size and inability to really put on much weight during the past month... Can't wait for him to start putting on some weight!


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

It will pass. Takes time. I was nervous as well with weight but he gained it all and then some


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## Bosn'sMom (Feb 11, 2013)

the ONLY food that has worked for our pup with GI issues is Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Venecin. He has been on it since he was about 5 months old. He's 15 months now. Thank god we found it… we tried everything.


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## DeNovo206 (Oct 24, 2013)

Just wanted to drop in with an update. De Novo has cleared the roundworms in his system (according to stool test), but he's still dealing with giardia based on his symptoms. We got some flagyl at the vet, and we still have another day of meds to give him. When we took him Friday, he weighed in at 35.2 lbs—so definitely on the small side considering he's over 6 mos old. Vet recommended to start transitioning to a real food instead of just feeding the W/D, so we started him on Acana Lamb & Apple... 

First couple days were a bit dicey with his stools, but they seem to be getting better. Might also be the medicine working. Getting the medicine down his throat has been a big challenge most times—he really hates it!! We've also been using a multienzyme tablet that the vet recommended with his meals that he doesn't seem to mind. Hopefully he starts putting on some weight soon. But based on other posts I've read about giardia, it can really be a struggle!


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## Burd (Aug 11, 2011)

I had my girl on Pedigree Puppy and she did fine on it. (Not exact the _best_ food out there, but it worked for us.)

Hope your boy is feeling better soon!


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Thanks of the update. Hope the giardia clears soon. Our boy has done well on Acana.


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## Shellbug (Nov 14, 2013)

He is beautiful 


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## DeNovo206 (Oct 24, 2013)

Today is De Novo's first full day on only the Acana (giving him about a cup x 3 serving a day). He's been doing really well on it I think. His poops are decidedly smaller. Poops don't smell as stinky as they had been which might've been from the giardia too. We're going to cut him down to two servings a day starting next week. I never thought we would have so much difficulty getting him stabilized on a food, but it seems like we're here! =) He's definitely starting to put on weight, his head is getting bigger and he's filling out and growing a bit taller. Can't wait to weigh him again.


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## DeNovo206 (Oct 24, 2013)

So he weighs 40.9 pounds yesterday at the vet. The bad news is that he still has giardia. =( Vet prescribed 10 days of Panacur + Metronidazole, with another fecal test in a month. At least he's putting on weight. I hate giardia.


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## GRluver (Sep 29, 2013)

I am so happy to hear that your vet is doing the Metro AND the Panacur, this is what I did with my pup. How many days of each medication did they put him on?


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## DeNovo206 (Oct 24, 2013)

GRluver said:


> I am so happy to hear that your vet is doing the Metro AND the Panacur, this is what I did with my pup. How many days of each medication did they put him on?


10 days each. Panacur #50 once a day, and Metronidazole 250 mg two times a day (every 12 hrs). Previously, he had been given 5 days of Metro @ 375 mg x 2 a day. Before that, we tried two three-day doses of Panacur separated by 10 days. With his last batch of Metro, however, we weren't sure if he was always getting the full dosage bc he might have spit some of it out at times. This time we got some wet prescription diet W/D as a topper for his dry food to ensure that he takes all the meds down. I think he's pooping less often now that he's on the meds, like maybe just 2 times a day. But this morning his poop was like pudding. At least for the past two days prior they had been more formed and not as loose. Also, with just the last batch of metro, I recall his poop being pretty pudding-like when he was on it, which seemed to surprise the vet. What's odd is that diarrhea is listed as a reported side-effect of the metronidazole. As well, I found it interesting that the vet defined diarrhea as any poop that wasn't firm...


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## Nott (Jan 19, 2014)

I'm feeding Pro Plan. Love it. Scout was fighting Kennel Cough when we got him and had very loose stool. One week on Pro Plan (we switched him slowly, about 1/4 a cup switched every 2 days) But he has gained a good amount of weight and he seems to really like it. It can be really tough. It took me more than a year to find something my Border Collie would eat. She has a super sensitive stomach but even she likes Pro Plan.


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## minde21 (Feb 5, 2014)

We are having this issue with our puppy! The messes are insane! We took him to the vet and had him tested for giardia but that came back negative so the vet thinks he has a food intolerance/allergy. The only problem is that the food costs $80/bag. She put him on flagyl and said we'll see what happens when that's done. I personally think the blue Buffalo that we have him on is too rich but she told us we shouldn't try to change the food right now. I'm torn though because I think that's what the problem is. Any thoughts? 

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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

minde21 said:


> We are having this issue with our puppy! The messes are insane! We took him to the vet and had him tested for giardia but that came back negative so the vet thinks he has a food intolerance/allergy. The only problem is that the food costs $80/bag. She put him on flagyl and said we'll see what happens when that's done. I personally think the blue Buffalo that we have him on is too rich but she told us we shouldn't try to change the food right now. I'm torn though because I think that's what the problem is. Any thoughts?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


If he has continuing problems, there is no point staying on a food you think is the cause. I would switch him to something else, probably something more middle of the line food instead of grain free.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

minde21 said:


> We are having this issue with our puppy! The messes are insane! We took him to the vet and had him tested for giardia but that came back negative so the vet thinks he has a food intolerance/allergy. The only problem is that the food costs $80/bag. She put him on flagyl and said we'll see what happens when that's done. I personally think the blue Buffalo that we have him on is too rich but she told us we shouldn't try to change the food right now. I'm torn though because I think that's what the problem is. Any thoughts?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I have noticed that many on the forum have had problems with puppies and Blue Buffalo. I agree that something more middle of the road would be a good alternative. Such as Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy Food or Purina Pro Plan. Max did very well on Eukanuba when he was a puppy.


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## Shellbug (Nov 14, 2013)

Max's Dad said:


> I have noticed that many on the forum have had problems with puppies and Blue Buffalo. I agree that something more middle of the road would be a good alternative. Such as Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy Food or Purina Pro Plan. Max did very well on Eukanuba when he was a puppy.



What do you feed Max now ?


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Shellbug said:


> What do you feed Max now ?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Max is fed Acana Wild Prairie. He is been eating the WP about two years.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

You may want to at least consider mainstream grocery store type food options like Pedigree or Purina. I have a friend who is financially much better off than me and has no problem with buying expensive food, who has a dog who developed digestive issues, and tried all the pricey stuff, and the only thing the dog could keep down and fully digest was Beneful. He literally says he tried out 10 different mostly high-end grain-free foods. A couple years later a vet told him he shouldn't be feeding low-quality food and he just looked at her like "At least he doesn't vomit this up constantly".

As I'm low income, I used to feed my dog Purina, and because of his allergies tried several grain-free options that caused me a lot of financial hardship. His allergies did not improve, he demonstrated a distaste for the foods provided, and he started eating tree bark and grass to supplement them because he missed grains. I switched him to another cheap brand with grains, Pedigree, and he no longer feels the need to eat bark or grass. He wanted his grains and was determined to get them.

My only point being, different things work for different dogs. I wouldn't be afraid to try every option you have just because of a stigma about ingredients that are considered low quality. In the end, the best dog food is the one your dog will eat, enjoy, keep down, absorb the nutrients from, and eliminate well.

I understand there are reasons for people to feed high-end grain-free foods, but I am not persuaded that they are the answer for every dog or dog owner. Even if that's your normal thing, if your dog's stomach can't handle them, it's worth trying every option you have and being willing to try making an adjustment, just like I was set on feeding my dog less expensive foods due to my budget, but made an adjustment and a sacrifice to try the grain-free stuff in the hopes that it would help him with his allergies, until it became really obvious that it wasn't helping. The dog we get isn't always going to be the dog that fits best with whatever ideas of dog care we have in our heads or whatever training methods we prefer, they're individuals who we sometimes need to make adjustments for.


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## minde21 (Feb 5, 2014)

Thank you for sharing. I think despite the vet telling me not to change his food i'm going to anyway. I'm coming to the bottom of this bag and don't want to buy another big bag of food I plan on getting rid of. 

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