# a mark is a mark is a mark... or is it?



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks for an awesome post.
This is something I'm working hard on learning. When we are out training with our pro, sometimes he will indicate that he's really pleased with a mark that Tito ran, and I look at it and think "geez, that's just a BABY mark" until he explains to me what makes it hard. Cover changes. In and out of a ditch. Having to run around bushes that are in the way, even though they are fairly small. Things I can't possibly know about, like they used a spot halfway there for marks the day before and it's full of feathers and scent. 
When we set up our marks in our small training group I try to have an eye for this stuff, and incorporate it into the marks.
Small example, I have hedges of arborvatie on the property. I will sometimes set up a mark where the dogs have to run thru the fairly tight openings between the evergreens. THREE times now people have seen something similar in a JH test, and told me a lot of the dogs considered the hedge a barrier and pulled up short, but because we've trained for exactly this their dogs ran right thru and came up with the bird.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Great post Randy. It was a good learning day. To think, I am at that spot every work day and hadn't considered running from where we did. My mind is racing on what else can be done there. Now if I could just get my boss to put in some ponds!


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## Klamath Gold (Dec 26, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> When we set up our marks in our small training group I try to have an eye for this stuff, and incorporate it into the marks.
> Small example, I have hedges of arborvatie on the property. I will sometimes set up a mark where the dogs have to run thru the fairly tight openings between the evergreens. THREE times now people have seen something similar in a JH test, and told me a lot of the dogs considered the hedge a barrier and pulled up short, but because we've trained for exactly this their dogs ran right thru and came up with the bird.


From what I can recall, you are fairly new to the field stuff. I can remember exchanging PM's with you a few years ago while I was training Rooster. From what I can gather, you have come a long ways the last year or so and Congrats to you and Tito!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

LOL Laura, you know you're hooked when you drive down the road and every place you look you are considering if/how you could use that spot for training


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks Randy, yes, we are totally new! We took our first lesson (we go once a week) last May, took the winter off, so yes, we're only about a year into it.
The big change has been the past 4 months, because I have found someone to train with. What a difference that makes!!! Now not only do I have the pro one day a week, but we also train with someone else one day a week. It motivates me to get out and train more on my own, too.
I remember Rooster!



Klamath Gold said:


> From what I can recall, you are fairly new to the field stuff. I can remember exchanging PM's with you a few years ago while I was training Rooster. From what I can gather, you have come a long ways the last year or so and Congrats to you and Tito!


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Great Post Randy,
One of the reasons I was a proud papa of Gunner on these two marks is that he fought factors that got big dogs into trouble. These marks were thrown in a similar setup a couple of weeks before and the dogs had no trouble with the terrain. They were wanting to teach them to fight the hill. So I suggested throwing the marks downhill rather than uphill and hence the bloodbath began. There is a road to the left on the memory (mark 1) and couple of depression on the way to that mark also causing them to lose sight of the mark. The mat (line) was on that road. So we have bird thrown downhill, slope pushing them downhill and wind left to right pushing them also. The second mark wasn't all that difficult for big dogs because of the bush on the right forming a gateway of sorts. The bird landed past a second depression (mini ditch). For a little guy that could have been a little too much not wanting to run past the trees and the gunner. 
I took full advantage of a 4 month old Golden showing up a Choco dog,and two black dogs. (one is the brother to AFC Robbers Stray Bullet) One an MH  
Course he ran them as singles but he still outdid em.


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## Klamath Gold (Dec 26, 2008)

DNL2448 said:


> Great post Randy. It was a good learning day. To think, I am at that spot every work day and hadn't considered running from where we did. My mind is racing on what else can be done there. Now if I could just get my boss to put in some ponds!


There is some really good concepts that could be trained for on that property. As I was driving out I looked to the West side of the building and saw some things I would not mind trying. We may have to wait until early winter or fall due to the cheat and other grass awns that are curing out right now.

It is always fun to invite someone new to train with you at "your spot." Their fresh eyes may see a concept that you have never considered.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Thank you so much for your post!! I am a newbie as well and trying very hard to learn  Some marks I think will be difficult and Faelan nails them, others he has problems with. It can be interesting at times learning from what my dog is telling me, and how my mentor will then explain it to me.


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## Klamath Gold (Dec 26, 2008)

Radarsdad said:


> I took full advantage of a 4 month old Golden showing up a Choco dog,and two black dogs. (one is the brother to Robbers Stray Bullet) One an MH
> Course he ran them as singles but he still outdid em.


Isn't that the best!

Good example of just repositioning where the marks are thrown from (or to) to influence a dogs behavior.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> LOL Laura, you know you're hooked when you drive down the road and every place you look you are considering if/how you could use that spot for training


I find myself doing this all the time. LOL


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

I wish I had Scent-O-Vision glasses. It would be very interesting to *see* how scent flows off of a mark. How is it influence by wind conditions, and where it collects. I know that the scent comes off the mark in a cone shape and the dog works the cone from side to side. Does anyone know of a good book, or article on this?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Totally agree, Holly, that would be so cool!
One thing I've noticed just in the past couple of weeks is that Tito seems to be learning to "use the wind". He gets downwind of a mark and then comes back toward it. It seems like he's doing it on purpose, getting to where he can pick up the scent and then heading back in.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> Totally agree, Holly, that would be so cool!
> One thing I've noticed just in the past couple of weeks is that Tito seems to be learning to "use the wind". He gets downwind of a mark and then comes back toward it. It seems like he's doing it on purpose, getting to where he can pick up the scent and then heading back in.


He is doing it on purpose, he has learned to use his nose. Might be a good idea to put your marks downwind to prevent fading with the wind or you will have to start handling to correct his lines to hold them against the wind. You will have to do it eventually.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

It amazes me to see them learn things that haven't been taught...
I do need to start paying attention to the wind.




Radarsdad said:


> He is doing it on purpose, he has learned to use his nose. Might be a good idea to put your marks downwind to prevent fading with the wind or you will have to start handling to correct his lines to hold them against the wind. You will have to do it eventually.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Wind is one of those things I can't seem to make myself pay a ton of attention to when setting up marks. Probably because where I live, it's not real windy! The only time I have ever seen Fisher fade with the wind is on water, big swims if there is a strong wind. He is the same with currents, he drifts a lot with it. Sometimes you have to work with what you've got and wind is something you cannot control.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

K9-Design said:


> Wind is one of those things I can't seem to make myself pay a ton of attention to when setting up marks. Probably because where I live, it's not real windy! The only time I have ever seen Fisher fade with the wind is on water, big swims if there is a strong wind. He is the same with currents, he drifts a lot with it. Sometimes you have to work with what you've got and wind is something you cannot control.


You might try setting small water long exit to the bird. Get him wet and it will magnify the felt effect of the wind as it does in water. I will put some slope in it also.
Just a thought.


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