# How do you all feel about outdoor dogs?



## Tracy (May 15, 2005)

I think i'm ok with it, because you do give your dog the attention they need and the exercise and the care.

A few house down from mine, is a golden too, but ever since i've moved here (which is about 10 years) that dog has been outside, day and night, I've never seen them take the golden out for a walk and he barks like crazy when someone walks by or a car drives by the back alley. It's not friendly barks either, he's pretty aggressive for a golden retriever, imo. I've never had a golden before, but i read and i've seen a few but they were all really friendly and always enjoyed company.


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## Meggies Mum (Apr 28, 2005)

Meg is also an outdoor dog, but I think in the climate I live in (we dont get snow, and the temperature rarely drops below 2 deg [email protected]) its fine and during the day my family spends most time outside with her! If my kids were the type to spend all day inside playing computer games or on the computer(they would have to remove me first though) then I definately would not have a dog, I dont like the idea of having a house dog at the moment because my youngest child is asthmatic and I try to reduce allergins as much as possible. Perhaps when she is older I will reconsider that, but at the moment her health is more important. Besides our house yard is extremely safe, nothing can get in- and nothing can get out.


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## mojosmum (May 20, 2005)

It seems that you've done the best you possibly can for your dogs. One of the things I would change, though, is to have hay (straw) put in the dog house with the blanket on top. Material can get cold in the winter but the straw acts as a heater by holding the heat. Do you take your guys for more than one walk a day? Do they seem to like to be outdoors? When I put Mojo out in the morning I have a terrible time trying to get him back in. It's me that wants him in, not the other way around. As long as your guys are happy dogs and get the human contact they need by being brushed and played with there is nothing wrong with them being outside. Just keep an eye on them in the winter months.


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## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

Well, I don't like the idea myself. I understand your circumstances may make it impossible for you, but dogs just weren't meant to live alone outside. I've seen many houses that have a kennel outdoors with a doghouse and that is where the dog lives. Sometimes with no human interaction  and sometimes with lots of human attention, which isn't anyway near as bad, but still not for me.

The reason; Dogs are pack animals. They are social animals who need to be part of a pack. That is you and your family. They like to be with their pack and are not happy when by themselves. Sure they will adjust and will welcome your attention and when you are with them they will be happy, but how about the rest of the time?

Without the Pack Structure and the social interaction with their pack, dogs can develop behaviour and dominance problems. My first question to anyone who leaves their dog outside 24/7 is "Why have a dog?" The reason why I got a dog was because I wanted a friend and companion to do things with. I waited a long time until I had the property and resources to properly care for a dog even though I wanted very badly to have one. If you don't want a dirty house or if you don't want to take the time to properly exercise your dog, then you have to find a breed right for you (it won't be a Golden).


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## twogoldens324 (May 19, 2005)

I hate to see dogs kept outside. The only exception would be hunting dogs and then I would like to see them have nice kennels, not tied to a box. Goldens are so people oriented that it isn't natural for them to be outside. I think you would miss out on a lot of the funny stuff they do when we are just hanging around the house. Just my opinion though. Karen


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## mojosmum (May 20, 2005)

I have to agree with you Timberwolfe, but sometimes you do the best you can with what you have. I couldn't leave my guys outside all the time but I do know people that do and they think I'm the crazy one. When hubby and I go out together we give ourselves a 4 hour limit before we're home for the dogs because they're in their crates. Zoe has a very small bladder and Mojo just stresses when he's locked up no matter what I do to make him happy. 
I do volunteer work in the community and people are starting to realize that I'll help as long as it isn't for more than 4 hours. Silly of me, really.


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## Rachel (Apr 28, 2005)

My Princess LuLu stays outside too. She stays in the garage when we are not home and in the garage at night. We never let her just run loose though. She is outside when we are home. She gets plenty of exercise.


I have never been a fan of inside animals. I have this thing about keeping my house clean. 

As long as they get exercise and know that you love them I don't think it matters!


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## Pepe Gardner (Apr 11, 2005)

This issue needs to be judged by whether there are any signs of excessive digging, barking, aggression, escapes or other signs of emotional stress. 
In my opinion, as long there is no problem it should be ok to keep your golden outside.


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## Heffanator (Apr 19, 2005)

Ya, neither dog has any problems like barking, etc. They bark at strangers, or other dogs and they dig occassionally for moles. (We have them bad here sometimes) That's the worse they ever do. They chew on toys or bones. They are terribly rotten. ha


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## goldencity (May 26, 2005)

Reading all these posts from people who keep their dogs outside has me worriedI think it can be OK for a dog to be kept outside BUT there are important issues, such as the amount of time the dog spends alone, how stimulating the environment is for the dog, does it have enough shelter from sun/cold ect ect .

Even if you are sure your dog has all the above sorted out, WHY have a golden if you are worried about fur/ dirt? WHY have any dog at all if you dont want it to be a full part of your family?
Goldens in particular are very sociable animals- they love to be a part of the family, their pack, and I think it is down right cruel to keep one shut up in a shed/ garage / yard for hours on end with no one to interract with and nothing to do. When a dog kept like this developes behaviural problems and barks all the time/ chews destructivly/ bites some one the cry goes up "what a bad dog" when really it should be what a bad owner!
I know these views will be unpopular with some people, but I'm thinking about the dogs, not the humans!


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## Meggies Mum (Apr 28, 2005)

goldencity said:


> Reading all these posts from people who keep their dogs outside has me worriedI think it can be OK for a dog to be kept outside BUT there are important issues, such as the amount of time the dog spends alone, how stimulating the environment is for the dog, does it have enough shelter from sun/cold ect ect .
> 
> Even if you are sure your dog has all the above sorted out, WHY have a golden if you are worried about fur/ dirt? WHY have any dog at all if you dont want it to be a full part of your family?
> Goldens in particular are very sociable animals- they love to be a part of the family, their pack, and I think it is down right cruel to keep one shut up in a shed/ garage / yard for hours on end with no one to interract with and nothing to do. When a dog kept like this developes behaviural problems and barks all the time/ chews destructivly/ bites some one the cry goes up "what a bad dog" when really it should be what a bad owner!
> I know these views will be unpopular with some people, but I'm thinking about the dogs, not the humans!


Firstly the same question should be asked of those who have inside dogs and proceed to have that dog crated for hours. How fair is that???

Second those of us who have stated that our dogs are outside dogs have also mentioned how much time we actually spend outside with our dogs. I know Meg for one has NEVER been shut up in a shed/garage for hours, she has NEVER been tethered either, and if I am to be away for most of the day she goes on a play-date with her sister, who resides across the street. Meg is a valued member of my family and the fact that I choose to keep an area set aside for the health of my family does not automatically indicate that my dog is in any way neglected and will at any stage develop behavoural problems.


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## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

I can see this could become a heated debate. However I will never agree that it is OK to keep a dog outside (including garage) 24/7. Hunting dogs are no different.

All you have to do is look at the history of dogs and read about dog behaviours to know that dogs are a pack animal and do NOT like being alone. Also if you have more than one dog and they are outside, then the chances are they will bond together and you will not be the Alpha.

Does that make you cruel or negligent if you don't bring them inside? That is a matter of personal opinion.

However what is not opinion but fact is that indoor dogs who are with their pack are happier and better adjusted dogs. Does that mean outdoor dogs are automatically going to have behaviour problems? No. But the chances are much greater.

Outdoor dogs are also more likely to become territorial and bark, at greater risk from wildlife and other dogs (depending if fenced or just tied), if tied then getting hurt or worse by getting hung up (on another board I go to a young girl came home to her dog hanging dead from a fence he tried to jump while tied), humans with bad intentions, weather conditions, etc.

How does having a dog indoors affect the health of your family unless you are dealing with allergies or asthma?

Personally, why have a dog if you don't want it with you and your family? I agree with Goldencity.


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## Meggies Mum (Apr 28, 2005)

Sorry, you do not know my family, therefore you do not understand the amount of time spent outside by the human members of this family, would it benefit Meg to be an inside dog when we spend, on average, 10 hours a day-7 day a week OUTSIDE??? She is at the end of the day-safe, contented, well loved, and extremely well behaved.


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## goldencity (May 26, 2005)

If you look at my post, meggiesmum, you'll see I said "left on their own for hours on end...".
Of course you and other caring owners can keep dogs outside well BUT in my opinion it is cruel to keep a dog fastened up in a small, boring enclosure indoors or out ON ITS OWN with no interaction with other pack members [family] and no stimulation. Dogs, and Goldens in particular, are very social animals they need contact with others in their pack. I t is wrong to keep one if you cant provide the company, training, space, time to look after it.
If you can do this, even if your dog lives outside, then my comments do not apply to you. If, on the other hand, "the cap fits..."

The reason for my original post were the comments made by Rachel earlier- [dont know how to make the quote thing work!] she said her dog was kept in the garage during the day while they were atwork and at night and that the dog was not allowed in the house as she has a thing about keeping her house clean!!!!!!!
How many hours is this dog shut in? 8 hours at night, another 8 to 10 during the day if everyone is at work. Even if it gets a long walk every day thats an awful long time to be in a garage!


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## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

You're right, I don't know your family, but from the sounds of it it sounds like Meg is happy. However it sounds like you are the exception, where as most people who keep their dog outside don't spend anywhere near that much time outdoors.

When giving advice or opinions, you have to go with the general rules and averages, and I stand by what I said. 

Dogs are better off and happier inside with their family.


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## twogoldens324 (May 19, 2005)

This is definately a very controversial topic. People have their own strong opinions on it. I think it is like the topic of allowing dogs to ride in the bed of pick up trucks. I usually know better and avoid voicing my opinion on either of these subjects because they usually just cause people to become defensive and then everybody is upset. I guess it would be a very dull place if every one thought alike. Note to self: Don't comment of hot topics. Karen


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## Heffanator (Apr 19, 2005)

First, I do not agree with people tying there dog out in the yard. Get a fence. You wouldn't like having a rope around your neck and being hooked to a tree. I also don't like dogs being crated for hours at a time, or being shut up in the garage. Now, that's mean.

Well, if they weren't living here, outside, where would they be now? dead most likely. My golden was a stray, who had been shot twice by a farmer. I wonder how many people would have taken him in? None. This road is awful and dogs and cats get hit here. Sophie is from the humane society and she was there from 10/29-01/17 until I adopted her. Her time was probably almost up. I say living outdoors with daily exercise, food, water, play, and interaction is better than being dead, agreed? 

I don't know who said it but my dogs do not stay alone for hours on end, therefore they are not neglected in anyway. It's not my fault they have to stay there. Also, I got my golden when I was 10, a 10 year old doesn't know that much about dogs, and being 10, I had NO choice where he stayed. I just wanted a dog, ever kid does the same thing. 

My dogs are not neglected. I play and walk them every day. They love each others company as well. I also like to lay out now that's it's summer and they come up on the deck and visit. Everyone who knows me and my family knows how well cared fir they are. Making quick judgements is really idiotic when nobody knows me or my dogs. 

Well, if they weren't living here, outside, where would they be now? dead most likely. My golden was a stray, who had been shot twice by a farmer. I wonder how many people would have taken him in? None. This road is awful and dogs and cats get hit here. Sophie is from the humane society and she was there from 10/29-01/17 until I adopted. Her time was probably almost up.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

I strongly agree with everything timberwolfe has said thus far... but rather than re-iterate those comments, I'd like to add to them... "Out of sight, out of mind." is often the case with an 'outside' dog. Example: We could never possibly forget Sidney's dinner time... he won't let us! We talk to him all the time, just as another member of the family... you've got to, he's always in somebody's face. Its impossible to forget to groom him, exercise him, etc... we can't, he just keeps reminding us of these things.
I noticed a long time ago, that when a 'long time' pet dies some people get hit very hard by it (depressed for months) while others are only mildly saddened by the passing and are quickly over it. And those who aren't much affected by the lost of a pet can't seem to understand those who feel real grief at the loss of this animal. I believe I know why the difference in reaction to a death of a pet... its the caregivers who are always the hardest hit and it is especially during those times or situations where some interaction with the pet would have normally occurred... someone's at the door, dinnertime arrives, the daily walk, etc. Kinda hard to have those 'cues' when its only an 'outside' dog. To really fully experience the companionship of a pet you've got to actually live with them. The bottomline here is... its hard to have constant interaction with your dog if its outside all the time... that is of course, unless you live outside also, like eating and sleeping under the stars and all. I guess it all depends on your perspective of where a dog fits in the scheme of your life. To some people "a dog is just a dog" and to others "a dog is real family".


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## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

Heffanator, like I said earlier, the advice given here is based as a general rule, there are always exceptions. To live on the street or in your yard, well your yard is better. But in your house is better yet, but that was not your choice, it was your parents. 

I don't think anyone here judged you. If you feel I did then I apologize.

It's like monomer mentioned, but this is not directed at anyone here, but it may apply, I don't know. To some people a dog is just a dog. My brother in law is like that. He can't understand why we spend so much time and effort on Clancy. He criticises me for it in fact. Do I care about his opinion? No. Because he doesn't understand the bond I have with Clancy and I don't expect him to. To him a dog is not to be seen or heard of and certainly not in the way.


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## Meggies Mum (Apr 28, 2005)

This is my final word on the subject, I hope! There is animal cruelty every where in this world, just look at the thread what a rescue, these dogs were from what I understand inside, crated. the initial question posed in this thread as I understood,was does your dog live inside or outside, but I got it wrong, it was how do you feel about outside dogs. From what I have gathered, ALL the owners who have indicated that their dog is an outside dog are in fact responsible dog owners, Rach- I feel that it is good that your dog lives in your garage, it works for you! Heff, the choice was out of your hands, but also it works in your situation.
We are all members of this forum for the same reason...WE LOVE OUR DOGS. We wouldnt be here if we didnt. Not all outside dogs need to be felt sorry for,and there are exceptions in every living arrangement. Some inside dogs need your pity too, what about the poor dogs who are crated for 8 hours a day because their owners work?
We are all individuals, with individual circumstances, and we are all doing what is best in ours. Thankyou!


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

First off let me start by saying... controversy is a good thing, if affords us the opportunity to 'expand' mentally and 'grow' emotionally to become more than we currently are... whether we choose to take advantage of the opportunity is dependent upon our attitude and response to confrontation... Some people run and hide from it, some dig in their heels and resist at all costs, and others try to have an opened mindset. In the end, I believe, controversy and open debate help to keep the us out of the rut and clears the air... and if nothing else, it can be very entertaining (and often informative) to many of the spectators. So I'll say it again, controversy is a *GOOD THING*.

Now onto the topic at hand...
I tried to take this discussion away from focusing on the 'quality of life' from a dog's perspective and putting it on the value and strength of the 'dog/family bond'. First of all, there can be cruelty in any living situation... indoors or outdoors, on the street, at the animal shelter, etc. And secondly, a dog's pack instinct and mental stimulation can be satisfied by having anything living for company... another dog or so, a cat or two, a human family, etc. Think about all the 'reputable', 'responsible' breeders out there who cannot possibly house a dozen or more dogs within their family dwelling... are they to be accused of cruelty to their dogs? NO. What I'm trying to say is... whatever your current attachment is to your dog, know this, it can be so much more. I cannot convince anyone who's never lived with a pet of this... no this is something you have to experience personally to know what I'm talking about. It's your choice, but at least think about it.


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## mojosmum (May 20, 2005)

Handsome dog you have there Monomer. How old is s/he?


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## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

Well said monomer.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

mojosmum said:


> Handsome dog you have there Monomer. How old is s/he?


One year and one month as of tomorrow... and still just a big goofus. This past Tuesday, during an obedience training class, we are heeling our dogs in around in a big circle... then we stop, and "sit!" followed by "down!"... this goofus dog starts play yipping and rolls over onto his back while throwing the leash into the air... he thinks its play time... yes, this is what I have to put up with (...and I wouldn't want it any other way). A bit more than you asked for but what the heck...

EDIT: Oh and thanks for the compliment... he's a boy Sidney and you know its too bad I can't capture his best feature in a photo... his sweet disposition.


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## mojosmum (May 20, 2005)

It's been said that a Golden doesn't get his brain until they're 1 1/2 or 2 years old. Thank goodness for that. This way they can stay a puppy that much longer and be the best there is. I had to laugh when you said he was goofin' off at class. Isn't that typical golden behaviour! Look at me and love me! They sure do have our numbers.


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## Meggies Mum (Apr 28, 2005)

monomer said:


> What I'm trying to say is... whatever your current attachment is to your dog, know this, it can be so much more. I cannot convince anyone who's never lived with a pet of this... no this is something you have to experience personally to know what I'm talking about. It's your choice, but at least think about it.


Monomer, I have lived with inside pets, my parents are poodle breeders and have been for most of my life, I had my faithful shep sleep on my bed with me every night from when I was 5 until he tragically died when I was 12, also with a lovely bitch called Pet, the three of us, my 2 bubs at the foot of the bed. I do not need to be told that I need to experience this- I have lived it, the fact is the bond I have with Meg is stronger than those bonds ever were.
Prove to me with actual data that the bond "can be so much more" with inside dogs. I know LOTS of outside dogs that have unbreakable bonds with their owners. We choose not to allow our dogs into our houses the same as some parents choose to not allow their children to co-sleep with them, the bond is no different in any case. It also is your choice to think about the point I have just put across.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Meggies Mum...
Evidently you've been 'there' and done it all... so I stand corrected. Who am I to tell you what you don't know? Since you know best, I will not try to convince you otherwise. I'm old enough to know its a waste of everyone's time and energy to try and budge an unmovable object... so as always, Good Luck...


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## Meggies Mum (Apr 28, 2005)

monomer said:


> Meggies Mum...
> Evidently you've been 'there' and done it all... so I stand corrected. Who am I to tell you what you don't know? Since you know best, I will not try to convince you otherwise. I'm old enough to know its a waste of everyone's time and energy to try and budge an unmovable object... so as always, Good Luck...


I am sorry you feel that way monomer, I dont claim to have done it all, I just made the point that I have had inside dogs. I do not claim to "know best" re-read your post in this thread dated 5-27-2005 "some people run and hide from it, some dig in their heels and resist at all costs, and others try to have an opened mindset" well monomer, where would you say you are at? I have an open mind, I have not run away and my heels are not dug in. I have merely tried to point out to you that the bond between canine and human is neither enhanced or downgraded by where our dogs reside. Seems the immovable object here may be _you._


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## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

I'm sorry but I have to disagree Meggies Mum, but I don't want you do feel ganged up on.

I agree that outdoor dogs can develop a bond with their owner, I don't want to dispute that.

But I feel my bond with Clancy is greatly enhanced because he is indoors. He sleeps in the bedroom with me. He lies under the table when we eat. He lies beside us or at our feet when we watch TV. When we are preparing food or doing work around the house he is often within site of us.

When I first think of outdoor dogs I think of the dog who is obviously neglected and not loved. You make it clear that this is not always the case and that outdoor dogs can be loved and cared for. So you have managed to change my mind about that. But I can't think of any thing that would lead me to believe that having an outdoor dog can enhance a bond, but I can think of lots of reasons why having an indoor dog can enhance a bond. 

And quite frankly, I can't even imagine not having Clancy as an indoor dog because I would miss having him near me.


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## Meggies Mum (Apr 28, 2005)

Just to clarify, the point I am trying to make is not all outside dogs are neglected - thankyou for considering my point of veiw there timberwolfe. I am not saying that having an outside dog can _enhance_ the bond just that the bond is _just as strong_ for outside dogs IF they are treated correctly, as members of the family. My dog is a valued member of my family, she just does not sleep inside the house with me- what I have not mentioned is that she is actually allowed in one room of the house, I choose to keep the rest of my house allergin free for the safety and comfort of my asthmatic daughter-therefore Meg is considered an outside dog. I know that some outside dogs are neglected, my point is that not ALL outside dogs are neglected. And, folks, unless I feel that I am being personally attacked _again,_ that is all I've got to say.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

MM, I'm not hiding from confrontation but its become quite obvious have your heels dug in. I could counter with stories of my own from my childhood (a time and a place where only outside dogs existed) but what good would that do... this is exactly what you have done... it still does not constitute proof. There are many possible extenuations I could go into to explain why your current bond is apparently greater than with 2 childhood dogs (comparision of two different dogs instead of the same animal, the inacurracies of a childhood memory for a number of common reasons, etc...) but in any case you will just say none of its possible for you and so on and so on... and we will get no where. That IS a waste of time... would you at least agree on that? There are many other constructive things I am currently busy with at the moment so I thought I'd save some bandwidth and simply tell you what you want to hear... that your choice of keeping your dog outside is best and maybe it is for YOU and your situation. Believe it or not I was perfectly sincere when I say "Who am I to tell you what you don't know?" I offered my opinions on outside dogs and you've rejected them just as you have other approaches from other posters, so what's left, really? I'm not hiding, I'm just 'petered out'. If you have a new angle on this matter I'd be happy to discuss it further but until then I'll leave the last word to you...
Good Luck and no hard feelings I hope...


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## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

I would just like to point out as well that in forums like this, every once in a while a hot topic comes up. Now personally, I enjoy the debate and welcome other opinions, even if I don't agree with them. And I will do my best to explain my beliefs.

These conversations can become heated and sometimes emotional. I try my best never to make it a personnal attack. But some people are more sensitive to having their beliefs questioned and may take a statement as a personnal attack when the person who made the offending statement never meant it to be personnal.

If you don't enjoy debate and confrontation, then stay away from these topics. Remember, we can agree to disagree. 

Meggies Mum, I've found your comments informative. Please don't stop.


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## Kay (May 18, 2005)

Ive often thought it would be nice if austin was kept outside for parts of the day (in spring and fall when temps are just comfortable) but he seems to just want to be wherever we are when we let him out in the morning he comes back to the door after doing his business and lets out one bark if we are not quite fast enough to open the door! He certainly is more of an indoor dog. we have taught austin to get his feet wiped just inside the door where i keep a small towel. he puts out each paw and when i ask him to turn around for the back paws he does!this can really help to keep out mud and dirt and snow!

I do think that if your dogs seem content with being outdoors all the time, it is your choice - im glad there is interaction and walks though. and i do agree that it wouldn't be a good sigh if there was any obsessive/negative behavour going on as this could be a sign of stress.


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## goldencity (May 26, 2005)

I think that all these posts about indoor v outdoor dogs only go to show that it is not so much WHERE your dog is kept, but HOW it is kept.

Any dog indoors or out which is kept on its own, shut in a small boring enclosure ie kennel, small run, crate ect, with no interaction with other dogs or family for hours on end MUST suffer. Some dogs may be able to cope, but others can and do quite lierally go mad. Then when they become impossible to control, or bite, or bark nonstop people say "what an awful dog" when they should say "what awful owners"

So if you, like Meggiesmum, keep your dog outside but care for it properly then fine. If however, your dog is shut in as described above; lonely bored and miserable, then shame on you!


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## Meggies Mum (Apr 28, 2005)

monomer said:


> I offered my opinions on outside dogs and you've rejected them just as you have other approaches from other posters, so what's left, really? I'm not hiding, I'm just 'petered out'. If you have a new angle on this matter I'd be happy to discuss it further but until then I'll leave the last word to you...
> Good Luck and no hard feelings I hope...


There are no hard feelings on this end monomer, i have not rejected your opinions or those of other posters, I have just tried to show that there are exceptions in every case. And to open peoples eyes to the fact that dogs do live happily outside PROVIDING they have their basic needs met- those needs being food, water, shelter, exercise, stimulation and love. These are the same basic needs that humans have, needs that I try my darndest to meet with my family, Meg being a member of that.
Debate can be healthy and one of the simple rules to remember in any case is not to make it a personal attack. If anyone feels I have done this I am sorry, it was never my intention. Every ones opinion can be different, and we have to remember that our own is not always right.


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## shaneamber (Apr 20, 2005)

It sounds as if "we agree to disagree".What works for one person maybe wrong to another.Every situation is different.We keep our dogs in the house and during shedding season we vacuum everyday.

What I don't like is where dogs are chained out with little room to run,no fresh water and no companion to pass the time with.We had a neighbor who's dog was kept like that.Food plopped on the ground when they remembered and a mud puddle for water.I spoke to them several times and nothing.I used to feed him in the morning after his owners left for work and gave him fresh water at least once a day.He died all alone without the family he wished for.Made me cry.
So.....as long as the dog is safe,clean and has companionship it's OK with me.
However,I do agree with timberwolfe that having Goldens as inside dogs builds a tight bond and boy are they a hoot to watch sometimes.
As for the smell and dander,we use oversize filters on our A/C that are very efficient.We also use ozone generators that purify the air and remove odors.Dander,dust mites and dust are turned into a very fine powder that the filters catch.
MM,I know from what you have written and also the fact that you are a member of this forum,that you are a great person and that you love Goldens.
That's good enough for me.
Shane


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## ron (Sep 16, 2005)

I have two golden's. 1 Rescue, 10 years old, and 1 from a GOOD breeder. 5 years old. I could NOT imagine leaving a Golden outside all the time. OUr dogs have complete run of the house, and have NEVER done anything wrong. I do not think Golden's are meant to be outside dogs.
Good Luck


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## greg bell (May 24, 2005)

First of all, my dogs split time inside and outside. When outside they are in their kennels (unless I am out with them). They are inside every night..watching tv and playing.. my dogs are hunting dogs and compete in field trials and hunt tests. Having said that, my first golden was an all outside dog.. and the bond with my first dog was the same as it has been with subsequent dogs that spent extensive time indoors. Conditions sometimes dictate whether you are able to have your dog indoors. Actually, goldens do quite well outdoors. They are very much an outdoors dog. They were bred to hunt under tough conditions. 
Yes, I enjoy having my dogs indoors, but it is not a requriement to have that great bond. The danger is having them outside and ignoring them. Those that have their dogs outside must make extra effort to spend time with their dogs. I believe those here that have outside dogs all realize that and make that effort. 
I dont know that there is anything "natural" about a dog living in the house. A good responsible owner is going to take good care of his/her dog regardless of whether it is an inside or outside dog. 
My dogs trot just as happily out to the kennels in the morning as they do into the house at night. 
The person that started this thread is obviously responsible or he wouldn't have even asked the question. I am sure his/her dogs are in good hands and quite happy.


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## Meggies Mum (Apr 28, 2005)

Thankyou Greg, that is exactly the way I feel with my dogs. Believe me, if my family were the type to spend all day inside, I would not have dogs at all. My family spend the majority of our time outside, and the only time our dogs are without us is when it is bed time.... it is currently 9.30 pm here and I have one dog asleep at my feet(inside) and the other is in her bed OUTSIDE. My children are not expected to share my bed with me at night, so I dont think I could share a bed with two huge (one weighs 35kgs) dogs!!!! And the fact is that my dogs CHOOSE where they sleep, my front door is wide open, and they choose to sleep outside!

Responsible dog owners spend time with their furkids regardless of where the furkids reside, in or out.


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

Mine are indoor dogs only, but I can understand the "indoor/outdoor" philosophy. What saddens me greatly is people who fence their yard "to give the dog a place to play" and then leave the dog outdoors constantly, completely ignored.


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## mojosmum (May 20, 2005)

We fenced our yard but our guys don't go out unless we're with them. I just got tired of Zoe breaking free from the leash and running through the farmers fields. Mojo will stay outside because I have to DRAG him in but he's o.k. outside. Zoe wants in where the cookies are :lol:


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

I just found this thread and find it very interesting. I grew up with pointers and English Setters for quail hunting. Now I am talking 40-55 years ago. Our dogs were totally outside dogs. They had nice warm dog houses and Daddy kept them full of fresh hay, piled deep in winter, thin during summer (it wa sort of a mattress for them on the wood dog house floors. Us kids played with them all the time. We would tie them to the little radio flyer wagon and pretend we were going west. We would put packs on them and pretend we were mountain men, etc. The dogs loved it. My Dad's oldest brother use to fuss at Dad and say us kids were ruining the dogs by playing with them. Daddy knew different. He knew that a dog that was shown lots of love and attention want to please the humans. My Uncle's pointer spent all her time in a pen with little attention except during hunting season. She was a very sweet dog, but not near the determined hunter ours were. Daddy said ours was waiting to please him because they loved him and i well believe it.

Now as to my goldens, they spend part of the time outside. If they go to the back door, I let them out and they stay out until they come to the door to be let in--be it 15 minutes or several hours. Only thing, when one decides to come it, all decide to come in. They decide how much they want to be outside, how much they want to be inside. We have a 6 foot wood privacy fence around our yard and we have large sycamore trees that give a lot of shade. They do sleep inside at night, the girls with me (and poor hubby when he is off the road) and Buck has his own room in the front of the house. He has a full size bed to sleep on and he will let me know if anyone comes into the yard at night. And they are not left outside when i am not at home.

This is a delema for me. I am scared to leave them inside in case the house were to catch on fire. But i am scared to leave them outside for fear of different things happening. Buck was hit in the face by a rattle snake in our back yard 6 years ago this month. The followin summer he had a reaction to a bee sting. And there have been attacks by those horrid killer bees close to here. If something happenes I want to be here to get them right to the vet.

I can not imagine us growing up without a dog because my mom didn't want dogs in the house (the ony exception as our very old English Setter on very cold nights). Our outside dogs were very much loved, given a ton of attention and loved to play with us kids. But since being married, all my dogs have been indoor dogs, Irish Setters and Golden retrievers alike. Or maybe I should say, indoor or outdoor as they so chose.


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## Goldndust (Jul 30, 2005)

The golden isn't intended to be an outside dog since they are very people oriented dogs. This isn't saying they won't do ok outside, but after owning 3 I find it very hard too believe any one of mine ever truely would have been happy as outside dogs since they have always been so close to me, as well as anyone that walks in my door. They are highly social dogs. 

I wouldn't go as far as to say it isn't natural for a golden to be inside dogs and with there people, it is totally natural for them to be wherever there owner is, that is where they are the very happiest of all, be it inside or outside.

Most responsible breeders will not even sell to anyone once it is known this dog will live its live outside because they know of the dangers as well as how social these dogs are.

My dogs have always had the choice of being inside, or outside by going to the door. None have ever chosen to be wherever I was not from my experience with them and for the most part only go out to go potty and then right back in unless I am out there with them. One thing I have noticed is there favorite times are off property out on walks, hikes, beach, pond, field, etc. Of course, I am always with them at these times as well. But these places are where they have all been the happiest of all, they are outside, but I am with them.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Brandy's Mom said:


> Mine are indoor dogs only, but I can understand the "indoor/outdoor" philosophy. What saddens me greatly is people who fence their yard "to give the dog a place to play" and then leave the dog outdoors constantly, completely ignored.


Samson is and will always be an indoor dog. I think my biggest concern with outdoor dogs are when people get a dog, tie him up to a tree in the backyard and forget about him. But I have known people with outdoor dogs where their dogs are VERY much a part of their family.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I myself have indoor dogs.... To me I feel there more part of the family being inside, but they do have a dog door to come and go as they please, to a large fenced in yard, Maggie loves the outdoors and spends alot of time out there, We do walk everyday 1 to 2 miles a day.
As for the houe being clean... well I have friends who work 40 hours a week and have dogs or cats and let me tell you .. if you were to walk into there house and didnt seen the pets , you would never know they had pets, there houses could be in better homes and garden.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

I'd like to tie my oldest daughter up in the backyard....but that's more because we failed in her housetraining...

My wife was raised on a farm, and all their dogs were always outdoor dogs. So it's taken years to convince her that my dog would be an indoor dog.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

RickGibbs said:


> I'd like to tie my oldest daughter up in the backyard....but that's more because we failed in her housetraining...
> My wife was raised on a farm, and all their dogs were always outdoor dogs. So it's taken years to convince her that my dog would be an indoor dog.


Lol Rick.... My daughter needs to stay outdoors as well, she as well has failed in housecleaning!!!!!


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

I have indoor dogs and outdoor dogs. Most of the dogs sleep in their own house which I built several summers ago. It is in fact a real house with heat and air conditioning. Sometimes, I am tempted to sleep out there myself, because then I would get my own bed  
I could not possibly have all of them in my house. They do get a lot of human interaction. Not only do we spend a lot of time outdoors, but we also rotate the dogs so that they all get some house time. In addition, they are almost never left home alone.
Here is a small pic of their house:


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## greg bell (May 24, 2005)

that is a really nice setup..


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

Wow, that looks like a professional kennel (only a lot nicer than some I've seen)!


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

Thanks, I'm really proud of this, so he's a couple more


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Very nice setup!!!!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

IMO I think it's cruel and horrible to keep dogs outside. I am very sad for you that your dad won't let you. That's so unfair. I know it's not your fault. But I would NEVER place a dog to an outdoor home.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Hmm, I'm not a fan of outside animals... why have one at all? Keeping cats outside (loose) is cruel in my opinion, too. But it works out if you don't mind if they get diseases, get in fights, or get run over.

Funny thing is, I am a fan of a clean house, too. In fact, my house is spotless, does not smell, is beautifully decorated, and even includes white sofas. And yet I have indoor animals as part of my family. I think having dirty, smelly dogs is disgusting. So I groom mine...

I'm sorry but I'm very passionate about this.

And I am not against excellent indoor/outdoor kennel runs like the ones shown in this thread... but to keep a pet dog outside 24/7? Don't count on getting one from a rescue- most view this as abuse. I think it is, especially in a hot climate like mine.


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## greg bell (May 24, 2005)

I don't know if my dogs would be considered inside or outside dogs... it is just about 50/50.. in general, they spend the day outside and the night inside. When outside and I am not around, they are safely locked in their kennels which has a snug house and good shade. I also bring them in during weather extremes (hot or cold).


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Greg, no I think that's how most people with a yard have dogs, indoor and outdoor? I wouldn't have a problem with that, b/c it sounds like they get a lot of attention and are housepets also.

And I do realize some dogs here that are outside get a lot of attetion, such as Meggie... but I think that's the exception. Most outside Goldens I know are neglected, psychotic (from emotional neglect), and have hot spots and other skin problems the Florida sand will cause an outdoor dog to have.


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

Greg, from what I'm reading, your dogs are basically "indoor dogs" when you're home, and "outdoor" dogs when you're away during the day. As long as they are safe and happy, sounds like a good arrangement. 

I think the point is that goldens need to be around people. They don't do well emotionally otherwise. And people spend most of their time indoors -- so when we hear about goldens being kept outdoors the bells and whistles start to go off.


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## Brinkleysmom (Dec 17, 2005)

I am not a fan of keeping a dog outside all the time, no matter how much attention you give them or what kind of housing they have. This particular breed loves people and wants to be around them when they can, as much as they can. They are a social breed and to leave them outside just is not my cup of tea. That being said, I understand your predicament; but this is an issue a lot like politics. Everyone has their own opinion and beliefs. 
As for "like my house clean," I would think we all do. Me, myself, I have to vaccum every day with the dog hair right now. Brinkley is shedding her winter coat. So there is hair everywhere and I like to keep on top of it. It takes me ten minutes to vaccum. I have a damp mop for rainy days to just mop real quick the kitchen floor when she comes in and I cant wipe her feet completely. Its all in how much effort you want to put into it. As for the asthma, I understand that, since I have had asthma since I was born, and open heart surgery and pneumonia so many times, that my lungs are scarred. But, the new drug Advair, is a wonder drug that is just great. I have never had such a great relief since this drug came out. I have no problems whatsoever with a dog inside except for when it is damp and rainy. Then I need to use an extra dose which the doctor said was common.
I am a believer that you get a dog because you want a companion. And a companion is not someone you keep outside, no matter what your thinking or rationale is. I just couldnt do it no matter what. But I am also one that would go hungry before I let my dog go hungry. So, thats just me. We all do our thing and we all have our own views. But that being said, it doesnt make one way of thinking any less wrong or right than another. Its just an opinion


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

Brinkleysmom: I think as you do. My husband and I both have allergies, but wouldn't consider getting rid of our babies because of them. Ours are only outside when we are with them. And we have made many sacrifices -- including lucrative job offers -- because it wouldn't be the best for our goldens.


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## sashac (Mar 13, 2006)

My dog is an almost 100% indoor dog, except for the walks/hikes we go on and trips to the park, outdoor mall, etc etc. I actually feel really bad for him because we don't have a yard (we live in a townhouse), only a small patio area. Sometimes when it's sunny I sit outside with him on the patio and he just lies down in the sun - won't get up to play, nor will he get up to come inside. I can even walk back inside and shut the door and he wont' budge, as long as the sun is shining on him. I wish we had more of a 50/50 setup, where he could play out in a yard if he wanted to, but came inside whenever he wanted to and of course at night when we are all at home. I am always worried that he is sun-deprived!


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

That's funny! Being outside all the time made me psychotic also. Better hide all the guns  
I hope guns are not a "hot button" issue. After all, these are gun dogs, and I do live in the country. 
They are also pack animals. I've observed this behavior in the small pack I have here. Although it seems to me, they mostly run in pairs.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I am sure your dogs are not psychotic vrocco! And I don't have a prob w/hunting or guns. OK, I admit I prefer coursing with hounds  But heck no, I got no problem with that! 

MANY rescue Goldens are insanely hyper, nutty, etc from being NEGLECTED and living outside 24/7. I do not think that applies in ANY way to your dogs... or any dog on this forum most likely.


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

I'm sure there are no people participating in this forum that neglect their dogs. The fact that they are here shows that they care an awful lot!

I just wanted to point out that because a dog is outside, it does not mean it is being ignored. Heck, my dogs lie on the couch when they are inside looking out the window. They love to be outside! Especially in the winter, when the house is just too warm for them (except for Duncan, who lays in front of the wood stove, but he is funny anyway LOL).

Jesse and Cider cry until you let them back outside. They will spend the entire day playing and chasing the ball if you let them. They don't even care if it is raining. They have to be forced to come in out of the rain. 

Yesterday, we sat on the deck all afternoon with them, and they never gave up on the ball. When they finally do get tired, they find a nice pile of pine straw and lay in the shade for a nap. GRs require lots of exercise to stay in shape. At least mine (and they are all different) will never be couch potatoes.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Oh that's so true! They need attention just as much but yours obviously get that. And the rain... oh they LOVE the rain. Even my prissy dogs like the rain as they can run so much longer if it's raining b/c then it's not hot. Ok, well the Whippet gives me that "screw you" look if I ask him to go out in the rain... but the others love it


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## glb (Mar 14, 2006)

don't worry about it. dogs love to be outside. give them lots of love and attention and they will be fine. my 2 puppies love it outside. they are in and out right now but when they are bigger they will stay outside and maybe in extreme weather sleep inside at night. i know alot of people who keep theirs outside and they have great dogs. we try to humanize animals for our benefit rather than letting them be animals. they love the outdoors.


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## greg bell (May 24, 2005)

My first golden was 100% outdoors and she was every bit as socialized and a sweetheart as the later ones that have spent a lot of inside time..


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

So! Maybe it's not the inside or outside thing? Maybe it is the ignoring thing that does it?


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Maggie would rather be outside during the day verses inside.... she does have a door dog to come and go


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## VeronicaLovesHerGoldens (May 27, 2005)

My dogs are part of my family and being part of the family they live inside the house and only go outside for potty/walks/playtime. I wouldn't own a dog if I had to keep him outside all the time. Thats just my opinion.


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## Leo's Mom (Feb 27, 2006)

ok, here is my 2 cents. 

All 3 of my dogs are inside dogs with lots of outside time with the hubby hiking and hunting. The only objection I have to outside dogs is when the owner has this house a half of football field away from the house and is tied up to the dog house. You can see the circle that is worn down from the dog pacing. I HATE THAT. You get a dog for many reasons, companionship, protection, hunting, love, service etc. ALL of these have 2 parts; human and dog. When either human or dog are seperated you have removed the reason that you wanted the dog in the first place, so why get a dog. Just because it is the thing to do? Do you have a child because it is the thing to do? I know that dogs are not human but they are our responsibility just as a child is.

Ok, there is my rant for the day...


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## PeggyK (Apr 16, 2005)

My dogs, like most of the other members here, are members of the family. I could never leave them outside. I think most good breeders even rotate "house time" for their kennel dogs. I think we all do what we feel is best for our animals and if they are socialized with people and other dogs-who am I to judge. I also believe very strongly that dogs are pack animals and an outside dog would be much happier with a companion. Just a thought.


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## Blondie'sPal (Aug 2, 2005)

*Outdoor okay but not for mine.*

Everyday, Blondie and I walk past this fenced in dog. A beautiful black lab. And he used to bark at us ... now he wags his tail as if to say hello and "can I come?" I never see anyone walking him. But for all I know he is loved and well taken care of -- at least I hope so. As for Blondie -- I wouldn't trust her outside alone unattended at all. She is quite crafty, and I just know she would find a way to go galavanting around the neihborhood! I will say that the last two times she got away (dummy me, I left a door open one time - and the other time I was shoveleing the driveway and she chewed thru a long tie out!) I was completely shocked and I mean SHOCKED that she actually came to me when I called!! That was a landmark event for us! I called all my best friends, I praised her like there was no tomorrow!!! But ... I don't think that means she can be trusted off the leash - I am just not that comfortable taking that risk. She could be in the next county in a flash -- she is like a gazelle! But still, it was a sign of hope.


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## Buffy & Abby's Mom (Nov 27, 2005)

My two are inside dogs primarily. Although when the weather is nice (over 45 and no rain), I do leave them out in our fenced yard when we're working. We live in a very small town in a good neighborhood. I don't really worry about anything happening to them, although I put a lock on the gate for safety sake. They are left with plenty of fresh water and they have a covered patio to get under if it's hot or if it would start to rain. Their primary mission during this outside time is to chase every bird and squirrel that they see. They are quite professional with their job duties.


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## TobyLove (Mar 11, 2006)

I think you are doing great with your dog. Mine stays outside during the day while I am at work. Toby sleeps inside with me in my bed. LOLOL He gets plenty of fun time and I spend alot of time with him doing dog agility. He doesn't bark only 1 time to let me know he is ready to come inside after he goes potty. He has squarrles to run after and he spends a great deal of time watching them in the tall trees out back.
I think that dogs can stay outside during the day and some can even stay outside at night, what's important is the TIME spent with them. Love and friendship with them.

Debbie


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

I thought I might revive this old thread since there has been some discussion on the keeping of Goldens outside vs inside the house with the humans. Many good points have been made on both sides and in-between.

I however would like to address the argument I've seen both in this thread and the other current one... that dogs were design to live outdoors and that is their natural environment. Well, I kinda think if you go back far enough you will find that humans were also designed for the outside and therefore houses are not really our natural environment either. I don't think the question is "do humans or dogs belong in the house?" so much as "do humans and dogs belong together?"... we do have very similar pack/family structures and therefore can bond in ways in which humans can fill the 'pack niches' for dogs and dogs can conversely fill the 'family niches' for the humans. Is it a good thing to split the 'pack' up? Is it a good thing to split the 'family' up? If you feel the same way about dogs as we do then the answer to those two questions are the same... as they are essentially the same question taken from the perspective of each species. Would it be okay for your husband to live in the dog house?... WAIT! don't answer that one, bad example  How about your child living only in the barn out back? even if you do visit him/her often. Face it, some people just don't consider their dogs family... and its too bad because I'm pretty sure their dog always thinks of them only as full-fledged pack members.


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## Ant (Feb 25, 2007)

I realize that not everyone has the same living situation BUT in *my* strong & firm opinion Goldens should be part of the family which means they eat & sleep indoors just like everyone else. They should live just like thier 2 legged family members and enjoy all that you have to offer.


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

I guess I don't understand how you can have a strong bond with an outdoor dog. I hear people claim they spend tons of times outside with their outdoor dogs. Well, I just don't think so. Most of us have some extremes in weather, be it winter or summer. I know when it is 20 degrees with the wind blowing, I am not outside. Nor am I outside for long periods when it is 100 out there. Today it is 37, with the wind blowing Mach 10. Factoring in the wind chill....well, it is miserable out there! I did go out and throw the ball for a few minutes. Not at all pleasant!

The people next door have two outdoor Saint Bernards. They live in a pony pen with a small open pole barn for shelter. They are the most miserable dogs I have ever seen. They are just starved for attention. It just breaks my heart to see them all alone. At least they have one another for comfort.

I also think that outdoor only dogs must be terribly bored. Bored dogs develop bad habits out of sheer boredom. Barking, digging, escaping. Pretty sad.

Last but not least...I could NEVER imagine going to sleep at night with my poor dogs outside. Dog house or not, it just cannot be comfortable in any extreme weather conditions. Plus, I just love the sight of them snoozing nearby.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Ant said:


> I realize that not everyone has the same living situation BUT in *my* strong & firm opinion Goldens should be part of the family which means they eat & sleep indoors just like everyone else. They should live just like thier 2 legged family members and enjoy all that you have to offer.


That's exactly how I feel too.... 

My sister-in-law has several outdoor dogs at their house....they live out on a farm with lots of land.... Everytime we visit, these dogs all seem so starved for attention. They don't seem like family pets to me.... I feel that they are all but forgotten. So my kids and I always spend lots of time playing with their dogs...

I know there are people on the forum who have outdoor goldens, and it might work for them. But I doubt that anyone who spends a lot of time here has an outdoor/almost forgotten dog.


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## tintallie (May 31, 2006)

Wiggles is an indoor dog with the exception of when we take him on outings. We do not have a fenced yard yet and I faithfully walk him to make sure he has enough exercise everyday and time for potty.

DH and I do not have the luxury of taking him to work with us and he does spend about 8h in the crate. When someone is home which is at least 3-4 days a week, Wiggles is out of the crate and around the house. Is he abused? Well it seems like some people would think so. However, we do need two working people to pay for the mortgage, food, etc. On Dh's days off at home when I am teaching, the dog actually naps a large portion of the day. In fact, I have noticed that on holidays he is very tired because he would rather follow me everywhere than get enough zzz's since he would have normally been napping in his crate.

When I come home, Wiggles is the first family member to greet me, and I make it a point to spend the rest of the evening with him. Leaving him outside is a no brainer. The weather we get in Calgary is mostly winter half of the year.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Rachel said:


> My Princess LuLu stays outside too. She stays in the garage when we are not home and in the garage at night. We never let her just run loose though. She is outside when we are home. She gets plenty of exercise.
> 
> 
> I have never been a fan of inside animals. I have this thing about keeping my house clean.
> ...


My house is clean and my dogs are inside dogs. You just have to go that extra little effort -- maybe vaccum every day to make them a comfortable part of the family.

I would never have an outside dog. I understand that some circumstances do not allow for the dog to be inside but if it were me I would not have the dog at all rather than let it live outside. Someone (and he was a friend of our too) wanted to purchase one of our puppies but she would have been a total outside dog. I wouldn't sell her to him. She is the puppy I kept --- my SunnyRose. She is an inside dog that sleeps on the bed every night ---- and yes, my bed is clean too!: 

Jazzys Mom


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Jazzys Mom said:


> My house is clean and my dogs are inside dogs. You just have to go that extra little effort -- maybe vaccum every day to make them a comfortable part of the family.
> 
> I would never have an outside dog. I understand that some circumstances do not allow for the dog to be inside but if it were me I would not have the dog at all rather than let it live outside. Someone (and he was a friend of our too) wanted to purchase one of our puppies but she would have been a total outside dog. I wouldn't sell her to him. She is the puppy I kept --- my SunnyRose. She is an inside dog that sleeps on the bed every night ---- and yes, my bed is clean too!:
> 
> Jazzys Mom


This is a real old thread....and I had to read backwards to recall what all has been said in the past....

I agree that I would never have an outdoor dog.....but I'd also have to say that I have known people with outdoor dogs who were VERY much a part of their family.

I still say there's a big difference between that and a dog who's tied to a tree in the backyard and forgotten.....


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I used to be that owner, with the dogs outside in a dog run. Rain or shine, day and night, hot or cold. They did have good dog houses, plenty of shade and lots of water and food. My poor dogs, hot, wet, cold, in storms and not nearly enough attention, they were not part of our family. 

I've come to the conclusion I must have been insane or completely brain-dead during that time. What was I thinking?!!! 

I've changed, my dogs live inside with me and my family now. I can tell you from experience I was missing more than I could begin to count in the relationship, the love, the attention, the joy my dogs had to give.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

I am completely opposed to having dogs live exclusively outside - I have said this in the other post so I don't want to rehash too much...but suffice it to say MANY of the rescue Goldens we place were dogs who were forced to live outdoors - and were very unhappy. Dogs are not livestock and in my opinion should not be treated as such.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

mylissyk said:


> I used to be that owner, with the dogs outside in a dog run. Rain or shine, day and night, hot or cold. They did have good dog houses, plenty of shade and lots of water and food. My poor dogs, hot, wet, cold, in storms and not nearly enough attention, they were not part of our family.
> 
> I've come to the conclusion I must have been insane or completely brain-dead during that time. What was I thinking?!!!
> 
> I've changed, my dogs live inside with me and my family now. I can tell you from experience I was missing more than I could begin to count in the relationship, the love, the attention, the joy my dogs had to give.


What you just wrote here is PERFECT...thank you so much for sharing that - you summed it up so well and it means so much more coming from someone who experienced both sides.


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

One thing I noticed about this thread, is how many members that are not here anymore. I miss my buddy shaneamber. I wish he would come back.

After reading through the thread again, I realized one particularly smart member  pointed out that it is not leaving your dog outside which is the problem, it is people that ignore and neglect their dogs that are the real problem. It does not matter if they are indoors or not. Sorry, JMHO.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

mylissyk said:


> I used to be that owner, with the dogs outside in a dog run. Rain or shine, day and night, hot or cold. They did have good dog houses, plenty of shade and lots of water and food. My poor dogs, hot, wet, cold, in storms and not nearly enough attention, they were not part of our family.
> 
> I've come to the conclusion I must have been insane or completely brain-dead during that time. What was I thinking?!!!
> 
> I've changed, my dogs live inside with me and my family now. I can tell you from experience I was missing more than I could begin to count in the relationship, the love, the attention, the joy my dogs had to give.


WOW! I'm speechless... and coming from me that says a lot...
I've been on many forums over the years and it is soooo rare to ever hear someone actually admit they've changed in some fundamental way in thinking or attitude. It's something most people would never admit to, even if it was so... I'm so very impressed.


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## daddysgirl (Feb 27, 2007)

Rachel said:


> My Princess LuLu stays outside too. She stays in the garage when we are not home and in the garage at night. We never let her just run loose though. She is outside when we are home. She gets plenty of exercise.
> 
> 
> I have never been a fan of inside animals. I have this thing about keeping my house clean.
> ...


why do you have a dog? your dog stays in the garage when you aren't there and in the garage at night, and shes stuck outside when you are at home, i'm sure she gets alot of exercise trying to get away. how in the world would your dog know that you love her? if you have never been a fan of inside animals and keeping your house clean why did you get a dog? not for nothing but i have a 4yr old golden, our house is clean and she sleeps next to me everynight and KNOWS that i love her. Denise


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## PJD001 (Jul 28, 2006)

daddysgirl said:


> why do you have a dog? your dog stays in the garage when you aren't there and in the garage at night, and shes stuck outside when you are at home, i'm sure she gets alot of exercise trying to get away. how in the world would your dog know that you love her? if you have never been a fan of inside animals and keeping your house clean why did you get a dog? not for nothing but i have a 4yr old golden, our house is clean and she sleeps next to me everynight and KNOWS that i love her. Denise


I think that is a very critical comment and almost borders on nasty. You have no right to say that 'how does your dog know you love her' And the 'exercise she gets is her trying to get away' If your dog is loved whether they are an inside or outside dog and they are healthy and happy then that should be enough. Criticising anothers choice and judging whether the dog is loved or not and the owners motives is not fair and a forum like this is no way to judge anyone's credibility as an owner. Shame on you.


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## PJD001 (Jul 28, 2006)

P.S Better the garage than on the street and definitely not too much different to being crated on their own for hours on end! If the garage is safe and warm and away from the elements, what differnce to a laundry?. ( my laundry gets mighty cold in Winter)


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## Jemma's Mum (Feb 26, 2007)

What if you rent & can't have your dog living inside! that is the case here in Australia!
Besides we live in a warm climate where it can be too hot inside. Our Jemma is an outdoor dog, she is perfectly happy & has a great bond with me! She sleeps & eats outside, lots of shelter, love & attention. Houses are for people. Animals in the wild do not have the kind of shelters that some people allow modern pets to have. I myself would not lock up or tether Jemma when we go out. Our back yard is fully fenced & she has free rein. I do not believe for one instant that all outdoor dogs are neglected. that is very much a biased opinion!


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## PJD001 (Jul 28, 2006)

Hi Jemmas num! Nice to see another Aussie on the board.! I just got back from the Gold Coast and it was nice and hot! I agree that up there it would be more beneficial to keep dogs more outdoors because of the climate. Inside gets very sticky!!!! If I lived up there i would spend all day outside in that beautiful sun ( Just like Meggies mum)! Sam would not be any worse off for it either! Sam spends more time outdoors than in, she gets plenty of love and spoilt rotten! She knows I love her and our kids spend most days outdoors with her! According to 'daddy's girl' that would make us bad owners. without the facts on the climate etc as well as seeing the dog's behaviour I don't think anyone can judge those who keep goldens outside.
P.S Where in SE QLD are you?


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

I know there are members here on the forum that keep their goldens outside in a run, but reading what they type about their dogs, it's clear that their dogs are as much a part of their family as any of us... There's a lot more to loving a dog than letting him sleep indoors. Cosmo's original owners kept him locked in a laundry room because he shed too much. How is that love? He wasn't a part of their famiy because they didn't brush him enough...

I have issues with my sister-in-law, because they've got five dogs living outdoors.....and I've never seen them get any attention from any of their family. Three of them are beautiful Labs....and need humans as much as any golden. To get a dog and throw him in the backyard and forget about him....and they did it five times... That's what I don't get....


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## Jemma's Mum (Feb 26, 2007)

pjd001 said:


> Hi Jemmas num! Nice to see another Aussie on the board.! I just got back from the Gold Coast and it was nice and hot! I agree that up there it would be more beneficial to keep dogs more outdoors because of the climate. Inside gets very sticky!!!! If I lived up there i would spend all day outside in that beautiful sun ( Just like Meggies mum)! Sam would not be any worse off for it either! Sam spends more time outdoors than in, she gets plenty of love and spoilt rotten! She knows I love her and our kids spend most days outdoors with her! According to 'daddy's girl' that would make us bad owners. without the facts on the climate etc as well as seeing the dog's behaviour I don't think anyone can judge those who keep goldens outside.
> P.S Where in SE QLD are you?


Hi PJD001,

I'm in Ipswich, not too far from the Gold Coast.

cheers


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

If its sooo hot and uncomfortable in the house than I am to assume the humans as well spend their whole time outside... is this right? The house is mainly to keep the sunlight sensitive possessions out of the sun and possibly rain from destroying the electronics and electrical items, both of which dogs would have no need of. You guys are definitely the rugged types... and rugged people deserve rugged dogs... I hear dingos are pretty rugged dogs. If you literally live with your dogs outside then yes, there is no more emotional advantage to living with your dogs in the house.

I grew up in Hawaii all through the 50s and 60s... dogs were kept outside, except for one eccentric family who was the talk of the neighborhood because they let their dogs into the house regularly. It was about 50/50 as to whether the dogs were confined (penned, on tie-out, or worse) or roaming free. The mortality rate was quite high for young dogs. Many of the owners claimed to love their animals (some were keeping more than just dogs) and I'm sure they did as far as their experience allowed them to feel. But over 40-years later, I have a very different perspective on what was really going on. Through accepting other ways of living over the years (I've been homeless, I've lived in communes, etc) I became introduced to new and different ways of relating to life and to living creatures... 
In some ways, that "dogs outside only" mentality reminds me sooo much of that attitude I grew up with and 'understood' in my childhood... I'm glad I finally did grow up though.

The problem really is... how to relate this emotional growth to someone who's never 'been there' but yet is not willing to acknowledge they may be lacking in any way or in any experience? Because "you don't know what you are missing" its easy to deny you are missing anything at all and therefore make any mental change in attitude or an emotional epiphany impossible... basically you just stagnate in a state of denial... impossible to be convinced of anything, impossible to move. There is no room for discussion under these circumstances as this topic is not really conducive for cerebral exercise insomuchas its an experience for the heart, in other words its a discussion of feelings and perceptions. These topics can 'peter out' and degenerate very quickly because of that. All I can say is I hope one day you do experience the difference 'really' living with a dog can bring. I will just accept that you are as happy as you can be with your arrangement given your mindset... your dog has no choice in the matter, they never do.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

Growing up in southern Calif we sometimes had a dog. I'm thinking it basically was outside or in a screened in porch which was attached to our playroom. I don't remember anyone specifically saying "Don't let the dog in!" but rather the dog just chose to stay outside. There were 7 kids and loads of friends there all the time and the dog certainly didn't lack for a pack.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

The point is it 'can' be sooo much more. I could probably live my whole life just drinking Ensure for every single meal... but I know I would be missing soooo much more... but sometimes people are not aware of what they are missing because they never really have experienced it.

The bottomline here is.... what's good enough, is whatever "you" decide it is. Its dependent upon what you think the dog is or is not lacking... which you must admit, you can only surmise.... so I would rather take the approach of what emotional impact are YOU missing in the relationship?


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Goldens WANT and NEED to be with their people. Period. I will not attack anyone who doesn't see that - I do understand that some beliefs take time to evolve. I know from first hand experience dealing with HUNDREDS of rescue dogs that no matter the climate, a Golden left outside and not included as a member of the family is NOT the best situation for the dog. It may be a fine arrangement for the people, but not for the dog. Does anyone not feel horribly when they see their dogs caught in a rainstorm? Or how about exposure to biting insects, other animals, risk of being stolen and used for God-knows-what??

I still go back to the question of "why do you have a dog?" if you are going to leave it outside? I ask that question honestly and without judgement... I truly do want to understand what the motivation is to have a dog when you do not intend to allow it indoors with you. I thank you all in advance for your honest responses.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

There is no one right way or only way to love a dog and make him part of a family. People need to see things from angles different from their own myopic view.

While I choose, in my present living situation, to have my dog live inside with me, I do not believe just because the dog "lives outside" he lacks for companionship with his human pack. Why is being cooped up in a crate inside the house while a family goes to work and school for 4-8 hours a day better than a dog who is outside and can move about when he chooses? 

When I was a child, our dog was outside but WE WERE OUTSIDE!!! Unless you have lived as a child as I lived, you have no concept of what I mean. We didn't watch TV, there were no computers, so kids were outside all the time (and our climate was always perfect...it was southern Calif).

About bugs--we were able to leave our door wide open and no bugs flew in. (There were ants because our home was built where an orange grove had been, but ants weren't interested in dogs or in us....just in food left out!). I don't think flea meds had been invented for dogs and cats yet, but I don't remember our animals scratching at themselves.

When we kids went anywhere-be it to a friends house or down the riverbed that ran for miles and miles behind our house, our dog walked alongside off leash (we had GSD or GSD mutts). No dog was ever hit by a car, stolen, or injured in any way. In my childhood the residential streets were very very quiet (we played baseball in the street as we lived at a dead end).

It was a totally different world from how I live now. Now I am not outside all the time. I live by a busy road and my climate can be very cold and wet or hot and humid. There are fleas and ticks-so I have to use meds for these. Now my dog does live inside or is on a leash when I walk him or wears his e-collar in my yard. 

Everyone's situation is different.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

I think you are right when you say situations call for different ways of life. Some people can have an outside dog just because they want and love the dog so desperately they will be willing to have it live outside just so they can have it. I can't help but think this is a kind of selfish love though. I also grew up during the 50's and 60's and yes, things were very different back then. Heck, we didn't even have to lock our doors and we lived in the city! Chicago that is too! Even then, my dogs lived inside. I still feel guilty because my mom and dad made our cocker spaniel go down to the basement at night. This is an argument that will never be settled. Its kinda like the abortion issue --- can be argued thill the cows come home and nothing will be resolved. Lots of hard feelings will develope though. I do think everyone is entitled to their opinion but that opinion should be stated without slamming someone else for their personal opinion. No, I wouldn't have a dog if it had to live outside, but thats me. I'm not saying that is right or wrong --- just my opinion. The opinion for the other side ------- can't say if its right or wrong ---- its just THEIR opinion and way of doing things. Have to ask you people that do have outside dogs a question ------- don't you worry about predators such as coyotes?? I worry about that and my dogs are only out in a dog run that is fenced. And, they are only out for short periods of time! We have seen coyotes around our area so I know they are hungry. One was bold enought to come up to my daughter's patio door and look in ---- in the middle of the day!!!

Jazzys Mom


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

lgnutah said:


> ...Why is being cooped up in a crate inside the house while a family goes to work and school for 4-8 hours a day better than a dog who is outside and can move about when he chooses? ...


I hate repeating old arguments already used... review earlier postings in this thread. This isn't about inside only verse outside only... its about outside only verses all other choices. Briefly, cruelty can happen both inside and outside the house, that's really not the issue. Its that certain limits are placed on what the best that relationship can possibly be by making your house a boundary... with you inside and the dog outside.


lgnutah said:


> ...When I was a child, our dog was outside but WE WERE OUTSIDE!!! Unless you have lived as a child as I lived, you have no concept of what I mean. We didn't watch TV, there were no computers, so kids were outside all the time (and our climate was always perfect...it was southern Calif)....


This was Hawaii... this was any place south 50+ years ago... nothing unique. The only difference was I didn't grow up in Disneyland, dogs did get hit by cars, shot at, drowned, and treated cruelly by non-animal lovers... yes, one was even strung-up and hung to death on someone's front porch. I guess it was a tougher crowd where I grew up... it sure wasn't Mayberry.






I hate just repeating old arguments... so let me try this another way...

I have a dog who lives in a hole in our backyard. He never complains, I think he likes it there because its soooo cool especially with our hot-summers being what they are. I visit him often, throw some food and water down to him, reach down and pat him on the head and he just wags his tail, he just really loves me. He's satisfied... he never really tries to climb out of his hole. I would let him out of the hole but then he'll leave brown spots all over my lawn... we can't have that. But its okay because we both like it this way. Who are you to tell me my dog isn't happy and loved and fulfilled? you don't know me or my situation. Wild dogs dig holes to live in... its their natural environment.

I can use every argument given so far to remain steadfast in my beliefs that a hole is the best place for my dog to live his entire life in. The thing about dogs is they adapt, often without complaint (very unlike humans)... and they will habituate to whatever conditions they are offered. I keep that dog in a hole long enough, he will not want to leave... he won't know how to cope outside of that hole... so eventually he will fulfill the prophecy of loving life in his hole and actually begin preferring it over the larger, confusing world. Is this the best our relationship could have ever been? If he's stuck in a hole... then probably yes.

(EDIT: For those with trouble generalizing... replace "a hole" with "the backyard"... and 'out of the hole' means 'entering into the house'... and 'brown spots on the lawn' is any reason someone can think up to not want the dog in the house.)


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## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

> Animals in the wild do not have the kind of shelters that some people allow modern pets to have


I am amazed at how many times I hear this as a comeback during discussions about outdoor animals. Wolves are WILD animals. They live outside. This is natural. A golden retriever is not a wild animal, nor is any other breed. We, the humans, have domesticated these animals so that they are no longer comfortable being left outside in the elements 24/7. We, the humans, have made it so they rely on us to take care of them. Animals in the wild are far far different from the animals that we care for. I have 3 dogs, 2 of which are crated during the day. Sure, I could leave them out in the fenced yard while I'm at work, but I won't. It could start raining, they could dig out, someone who hates dogs could throw poison dog food over my fence. There are any number of reasons to leave your dog inside. In the summer, if I am outside, the dogs are outside, and sometimes one of them asks to go back inside. My dogs are a member of my family, and I wouldn't ask them to live outside any more than I would ask my boyfriend. Dogs are not yard ornaments. I often wonder why people get dogs if they are going to live outside, because I know, even in the nicer months, no one is outside 24 hours a day. Unless you yourself live in the backyard, there is no way your dog gets the attention and love that a dog that lives inside does.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Taz Monkey said:


> I am amazed at how many times I hear this as a comeback during discussions about outdoor animals. Wolves are WILD animals. They live outside. This is natural. A golden retriever is not a wild animal, nor is any other breed. We, the humans, have domesticated these animals so that they are no longer comfortable being left outside in the elements 24/7. We, the humans, have made it so they rely on us to take care of them. Animals in the wild are far far different from the animals that we care for. I have 3 dogs, 2 of which are crated during the day. Sure, I could leave them out in the fenced yard while I'm at work, but I won't. It could start raining, they could dig out, someone who hates dogs could throw poison dog food over my fence. There are any number of reasons to leave your dog inside. In the summer, if I am outside, the dogs are outside, and sometimes one of them asks to go back inside. My dogs are a member of my family, and I wouldn't ask them to live outside any more than I would ask my boyfriend. Dogs are not yard ornaments. I often wonder why people get dogs if they are going to live outside, because I know, even in the nicer months, no one is outside 24 hours a day. Unless you yourself live in the backyard, there is no way your dog gets the attention and love that a dog that lives inside does.


Very well said!


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## Chaucer and Mom (Feb 26, 2007)

From what I've read and experienced, Golden Retrievers, need and yearn for human contact and closeness more than any other breed. Yes, they can survive outside. Yes, I suppose I could survive outside with intermittent companionship. But would that be okay?!

I haven't read all the replies; but I think the original poster said it was okay for her dogs to live outside because they'd pee and poop and chew things if they were in the house. No, they would only do that if they had no training.

The thought of a sweet Golden living outside makes me extraordinarliy sad.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

There is no dog breed that DOESN'T need and crave human contact... even the most independent sighthound. In fact, I'd leave a GR outside long before I'd leave a Saluki outside. 

I feel VERY VERY strongly against leaving ANY dog outside... I will never place a dog or pup to an outdoor or kennel home, and I am far more easy going than most rescues (I don't require somebody home all day, I don't require a fence, I give preference to apartments bc the owner has to actually spend time w/the dog, etc).


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## Jemma's Mum (Feb 26, 2007)

Looks like I have to repeat myself! As a tenant, we are not allowed to have an indoor dog, but we do let her in for a short while as a treat, although this goes against our lease agreement.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Did you NOT know what the lease said when you got the dog? Or did you get the dog KNOWING she would have to spend her life banished from the human companionship she needs? If that is Jemma on your avatar she is absolutely adorable and I can't even THINK that that little thing has to stay outside in the elements. Even if she has the warmest doghouse made, in a rainstorm with thunder and lightening don't you think she may be afraid out there all alone?

Jazzys Mom


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## Jemma's Mum (Feb 26, 2007)

Straight answer, NO! & she is now almost 15mos old.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

So, you have gone out there in the pouring rain to see if she may be afraid? Sorry to beat a dead horse but this is something I feel pretty strongly about. Apparently others here do too

Jazzys Mom


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

My mix breed, Katie, was one of the dogs who lived outside for the first several years we had her (she was 1 yr old when we adopted her, the other dog was our beagle who died in 2005 at age 14). 

Since we changed our ways and Katie has moved inside I have learned a multitude of things about her that I never knew. For instance, she is afraid of thunderstorms. I never knew that before because she was outside. She will let the other dogs eat her food, I never knew that...the list goes on.

I've personally learned so much, I can't imagine putting them outside to live ever again. I know there are circumstances for some, like a lease agreement, that prevents you from having them inside, but I would really encourage you to try to find a way to change that. It is so rewarding you won't believe what you were missing.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

Firstly, let me repeat that I have an indoor dog, who is not crated, who goes everywhere I can let him go with me, who is adored, petted and cared for. I don't choose to keep a dog outside, myself. People are in and out of my house throughout the day so he is never alone for more than a couple of hours.

But, I have problem with so many people coming down on the forum members who have a dog that is outside. 

I think there are situations where dogs can live outside (no, not in anything like a hole-even figuratively speaking monomer) in climates that are hospitable (it doesn't snow at all or even rain to any extent in southern California and other places on this earth). Even people who have a dog outside in a place with a variable climate don't necessarily leave the dog exposed to the elements. Possibly they leave leave the door to a garage or shed open or maybe there is a carport or front porch where the dog can get out of the rain or snow or cold if it wishes.

Besides, even a dog, like the GR, that loves human companionship needs some time alone (to sleep if nothing else)


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## Chaucer and Mom (Feb 26, 2007)

Jemma's Mum said:


> Looks like I have to repeat myself! As a tenant, we are not allowed to have an indoor dog, but we do let her in for a short while as a treat, although this goes against our lease agreement.


 
A friend of mine had a Golden she left outside. There was a severe thunderstorm one day while she was at work. Her dog's personality was changed forever after that. He became a frightened/aggressive dog overnight. Can you blame him?

Have you considered moving? What would happen if you did let the dog live inside? Is your landlord around the corner?


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## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

Jemma's Mum said:


> Looks like I have to repeat myself! As a tenant, we are not allowed to have an indoor dog, but we do let her in for a short while as a treat, although this goes against our lease agreement.


Then why do you have a dog? This blows my mind. Why not find a rental that will allow pets? I would never, ever live anywhere that my dogs were not allowed to live, and if I would not have a dog unless I knew I could make certain that they would always be well taken care of, including being able to live in the house. Going inside a house should not be considered a "treat", it is part of what comes with having a happy, healthy, well adjusted dog.


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## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

> Besides, even a dog, like the GR, that loves human companionship needs some time alone (to sleep if nothing else)


My golden is more than welcome to go wherever she wants to take a nap, but I will never make my dog stay in the backyard, while, we, her human family, is inside. If you have to keep your dog outside, you should not have one, IMO, and I'm sure many others feel the same way.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

I totally agree! To let the dog come in as a "treat" is awful! Sorry, but you shouldn't own a dog if you are going to treat it like that

Jazzys Mom


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

lgnutah said:


> But, I have problem with so many people coming down on the forum members who have a dog that is outside.


I have to agree with this statement... It's okay to have differing opinions, because this conversation always brings them out.... But there's really no reason to tell someone they NEVER should've gotten a dog. 

I know many members on this forum who have outdoor dog runs for their dogs, and they love their dogs just as much as any of us.... I just don't think it's fair to attack someone personally for their view.


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## Jemma's Mum (Feb 26, 2007)

Jazzys Mom said:


> So, you have gone out there in the pouring rain to see if she may be afraid? Sorry to beat a dead horse but this is something I feel pretty strongly about. Apparently others here do too
> 
> Jazzys Mom


Jemma is never left out in the rain, she has plenty of shelter, but sometimes she likes to go out in the rain & we are in the middle of a terrible drought. Rain is rare here & she is not alone during storms nor does she seem to be afraid of them. ARe you trying to say that anyone who unfortunately can't buy their own house should never have a dog in their lives!!! How superior you sound. Please keep your judgemental attitude to yourself! ; Most aussuies have a different feeling to you about letting large animals live in their homes. By the way would you keep a pig/goat/cow or horse inside because human beings have domesticated them.


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## Jemma's Mum (Feb 26, 2007)

One final note on this subject! When we bought Jemma, thye parents lived outside as well, that's where the pups were when we arrived. The breeder told us on the phone
that she didn't recommend goldens as indoor pets.


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## Sunny Delight (Mar 10, 2007)

Jemma's Mum said:


> One final note on this subject! When we bought Jemma, thye parents lived outside as well, that's where the pups were when we arrived. The breeder told us on the phone
> that she didn't recommend goldens as indoor pets.


Well, that's interesting. I suppose that people in Australia DO have a different view of it than many Americans. It's quite hard for me to imagine the Golden Retriever as not being recommended as an indoor pet. They are the second most registered breed with the AKC (after Labs) and are extremely popular for families with children because of their wonderful people-loving dispositions. 

I think you wondered about keeping other domesticated animals in the house, and some people do in fact keep pigs and goats in the house. I would have loved to have my horse in the house, but as far as I know, horses can't be "potty-trained" although maybe they actually could. I would have to say that it would be impractical to keep a horse or cow inside due to the sheer size. I don't think calling a golden a "large animal" and then comparing it to a horse is really an apples to apples comparison.


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## Jemma's Mum (Feb 26, 2007)

Sunny Delight said:


> Well, that's interesting. I suppose that people in Australia DO have a different view of it than many Americans. It's quite hard for me to imagine the Golden Retriever as not being recommended as an indoor pet. They are the second most registered breed with the AKC (after Labs) and are extremely popular for families with children because of their wonderful people-loving dispositions.
> 
> I think you wondered about keeping other domesticated animals in the house, and some people do in fact keep pigs and goats in the house. I would have loved to have my horse in the house, but as far as I know, horses can't be "potty-trained" although maybe they actually could. I would have to say that it would be impractical to keep a horse or cow inside due to the sheer size. I don't think calling a golden a "large animal" and then comparing it to a horse is really an apples to apples comparison.


that would depend on the size of your house!


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Sunny Delight said:


> Well, that's interesting. I suppose that people in Australia DO have a different view of it than many Americans. It's quite hard for me to imagine the Golden Retriever as not being recommended as an indoor pet. They are the second most registered breed with the AKC (after Labs) and are extremely popular for families with children because of their wonderful people-loving dispositions.
> 
> I think you wondered about keeping other domesticated animals in the house, and some people do in fact keep pigs and goats in the house. I would have loved to have my horse in the house, but as far as I know, horses can't be "potty-trained" although maybe they actually could. I would have to say that it would be impractical to keep a horse or cow inside due to the sheer size. I don't think calling a golden a "large animal" and then comparing it to a horse is really an apples to apples comparison.


Even our views (in the US) have changed over the years. I just remember growing up that it was very common to have outdoor dogs. Many of my friends had dogs that were always outside.


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## Jemma's Mum (Feb 26, 2007)

As for the unhelpful suggestions to move, landlords that will allow indoor dogs are as scarce as hen's teeth & here there is <2% vacancy rate. We have property inspections every 3 months, property managers would soon know if an animal was living inside!
If caught out, we would recieve a breach notice or a notice to quit the premises! In other words EVICTION. As for the notion that dogs weren't meant to live outside, when then do dogs still have thick coats of hair! Why do Goldens have double coats to protect them from heat & cold. Can you people hear yourselves!!


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

RickGibbs said:


> Even our views (in the US) have changed over the years. I just remember growing up that it was very common to have outdoor dogs. Many of my friends had dogs that were always outside.


There are lots of places today in this country where dogs are still thought of as "for outside use only". And I know many people who subscribe to this old custom today... its not a rare or unusual thing in the U.S.... only on dog forums. Forums tend to attract a certain type of dog lover... well, for the most part anyway.

The only thing I've been saying all along is you (plural you) are short-changing the relationship if the dog is always outside and you aren't. The owner decides the extent of the relationship and the dog just has to adapt. Some of us just want a little more from our pets... and we can only assume our pet gets a little more in return.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

I haven't read through this....but I know all about renting and owning dogs. As long as you incorporate your outside dogs into the family by walking, and playing with them enough....giving them your commitment and time....they will be fine outside. I was able to do that for the first 6 years of one of my dogs, but ran into problems trying to give my commitment on the last 2. I think that outside dogs are physically more healthy and adaptable then the inside ones. I think it just takes a little more commitment from owners to give what they need emotionally.

But they are more vulnerable to not getting their emotional needs taken care of and its harder for people to bond and work with an animal that is not with them constantly. That is why people get upset. If you think that your dog is fine and healthy...mentally and physically...then that is what counts.


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## PJD001 (Jul 28, 2006)

Lucky's mom said:


> I haven't read through this....but I know all about renting and owning dogs. As long as you incorporate your outside dogs into the family by walking, and playing with them enough....giving them your commitment and time....they will be fine outside. I was able to do that for the first 6 years of one of my dogs, but ran into problems trying to give my commitment on the last 2. I think that outside dogs are physically more healthy and adaptable then the inside ones. I think it just takes a little more commitment from owners to give what they need emotionally.
> 
> But they are more vulnerable to not getting their emotional needs taken care of and its harder for people to bond and work with an animal that is not with them constantly. That is why people get upset. If you think that your dog is fine and healthy...mentally and physically...then that is what counts.


We also rent, and yes ,rental properties that allow you to have dogs are very rare in Australia. This also means that we are no less capable of committing to care ,love, train and execise our dogs. Sam does come in but if we were sprung then we would lose our house, and possibly even Sam if we could not find a rental that takes pets. I totally agree with you except i think you worded it better than me a few posts ago! It seems that outside dogs in Australia seem far more the norm than in the USA. It could be a cultural thing or just a common lifestyle choice as i personally know other GR owners including our fantastic breeder who predominantly keep their Goldens outside. Our breeders live on a property where the dogs have free roam. Sam was born in a chook shed!!!! She has wonderful pedigree, temperament and her parents have produced amazing litters.
Sam will not come in fom the rain(when on the rarest occasion it does because of the drought) she frolics in the middle of the yard in the middle of a storm. She actually revels in it!!! I think there are some one eyed people on this forum that think their way is superior to others' way. I think Jazzy's mom is wrong saying that they are 'banished from human companionship' that they need. No-one is saying that they are never outside and leavving their pet alone for long periods,In our house Samantha always has plenty of human contact and relationships with all members of our family frequently on a daily basis. I think Rick summed it up well too in his last post on this thread.. Maybe dogs who are afraid of storms sense that fear from their owners and pick up on it? If it is a dangerous storm with flying debris, then any responsible dog owner would bring their pet inside or give them proper shelter. Some people on this thread seem to think outside pet owners are that moronic and thoughtless and would not do that!!!! You know who I am talking about because they are the one's criticising to the point of nastiness. i have seen more responsible outdoor pet owners than some inside owners. You cannot judge people without meeting the dog or seeing their environment. It is that simple. I think some people have misunderstood what Jemmas mum original point was, went off on their high horse and preached that their way was the best. Lucky's mom summed it up well!


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

To be honest I view this more as a 'amount of time left alone' issue than anything else. There are owners that would think nothing of leaving a dog alone in a crate for 10 hours everyday...to me, I would feel better if the dog was in a safe, well sheltered, comfortable dog enclosure in the garden out of those two options, at least the dog can walk around! If the dog is alone, it is alone. There are also so many different situations and set-ups to consider before you can make any kind of judgement. I have a friend/neighbour whos dog has an enclosure in the garden and spends a lot of her day out there and I believe sleeps in there sometimes aswell. Fern gets a 2 hour walk in the am and then another just as long in the afternoon. after 4 hours of running freely in the open countryside with her owner everyday come rain or shine, I doubt she even bats an eyelid to be put in to her warm comfortable kennel to rest. She is a very happy dog and to see how well trained she is you cannot deny the bond she has with her owner. Then on the other hand you could have another owner thats idea of an outdoor dog is one tethered to a tree and thats their lot. There is a BIG difference. Just as there are BIG differences to the 'indoor' dogs lifestyle. Like I said, putting a dog in a cage all day long is not acceptable in my eyes, regardless of the fact that the cage is inside! It is the standard of the dogs life that needs to be considered.

The fact of the matter is that a dog is LESS likely to be alone if it is incorporated into family and living within the home, that is pretty obvious. But you have to consider the cultural differences from country to country. Spending my days and evenings playing/training outside with a golden retriever is not a tempting prospect as the weather in the UK is very often dull, wet and windy...Should I be living in Australia it may be more inviting and can be done a lot more easily just because of the Aussie way of life (which is VERY different to a person living in the North of England!) That said, I believe that the majority of people that have dogs living outside probably don't offer them the best life possible, but that is due to the fact that MOST people don't spend a lot of time outside. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule.


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## Doreens (Mar 1, 2007)

yes id have to say here we do not have dogs in units here or apartments they just wont allow it. 
Unless its a very tiny dog . And its very hard to get houses to rent that will let you have pets inside. As some with pets have left the houses in such a mess.And made it hard for others.

Here they think it is not fair on the animal to be closed in all day or locked up in a crate. This is why we do not have the dumpage rates that go along with people buying a pup only later finding out the dogs gets bored or is being distructive from being shut up all day. Then this poor dog ends up in the shelter.

I suppose its alot different here climate wise as well maybe if we have a few feet of snow outside & blizzards & ice storms our animals would be inside but we live in sunny Queensland & the weather is warmer & our dogs are outside more exercising playing & swimming. Mine are outside alot and we are home with them everyday of the week so they are not just left outside we are outsides ourselves everyday gardening e.t.c our Australian lifesyle is outside. Monty is inside of a night .& Bronco & Tara are in the laundry with blankets. Tara has incontinence & Bronco likes to leave his Mark about. 

So im with mine 7 days a week. & hardley go out maybe an hour here & there. So its not like we work 5 days a week & there shut outside or locked up on there own inside. without seeing anyone all day long.

Anyone that has a pet here must have them in a fenced garden or you would get one big fine. We very very rare see a dog wandering on our streets and we do not have the dumpage rates of pets.


yes we are in the middle of a drought & rain is very rare so when mine see rain they love playing in it. Hope we get some real soon thou


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Jemma's Mum said:


> Jemma is never left out in the rain, she has plenty of shelter, but sometimes she likes to go out in the rain & we are in the middle of a terrible drought. Rain is rare here & she is not alone during storms nor does she seem to be afraid of them. ARe you trying to say that anyone who unfortunately can't buy their own house should never have a dog in their lives!!! How superior you sound. Please keep your judgemental attitude to yourself! ; Most aussuies have a different feeling to you about letting large animals live in their homes. By the way would you keep a pig/goat/cow or horse inside because human beings have domesticated them.


Well, if you knew me, which you don't, you would know that I have a FAR from SUPERIOR attitude and i am NOT generally a judgemental person! So, you keep your judgemental attitude to yourself. I believe I told you in a former post that I understand that circumstances sometimes will not allow the dog to live inside. You do seem to care very much for your dog. I think I have an issue more with the statement you made about letting her in for a treat. Sorry if I offended you, I did not mean to do that. I have mo opinion and you have yours They just differ, that's all. We both love our dogs, so lets just leave it at that, shall we? And, stop calling people names you cannot back up.

Jazzys Mom


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

pjd001 said:


> We also rent, and yes ,rental properties that allow you to have dogs are very rare in Australia. This also means that we are no less capable of committing to care ,love, train and execise our dogs. Sam does come in but if we were sprung then we would lose our house, and possibly even Sam if we could not find a rental that takes pets. I totally agree with you except i think you worded it better than me a few posts ago! It seems that outside dogs in Australia seem far more the norm than in the USA. It could be a cultural thing or just a common lifestyle choice as i personally know other GR owners including our fantastic breeder who predominantly keep their Goldens outside. Our breeders live on a property where the dogs have free roam. Sam was born in a chook shed!!!! She has wonderful pedigree, temperament and her parents have produced amazing litters.
> Sam will not come in fom the rain(when on the rarest occasion it does because of the drought) she frolics in the middle of the yard in the middle of a storm. She actually revels in it!!! I think there are some one eyed people on this forum that think their way is superior to others' way. I think Jazzy's mom is wrong saying that they are 'banished from human companionship' that they need. No-one is saying that they are never outside and leavving their pet alone for long periods,In our house Samantha always has plenty of human contact and relationships with all members of our family frequently on a daily basis. I think Rick summed it up well too in his last post on this thread.. Maybe dogs who are afraid of storms sense that fear from their owners and pick up on it? If it is a dangerous storm with flying debris, then any responsible dog owner would bring their pet inside or give them proper shelter. Some people on this thread seem to think outside pet owners are that moronic and thoughtless and would not do that!!!! You know who I am talking about because they are the one's criticising to the point of nastiness. i have seen more responsible outdoor pet owners than some inside owners. You cannot judge people without meeting the dog or seeing their environment. It is that simple. I think some people have misunderstood what Jemmas mum original point was, went off on their high horse and preached that their way was the best. Lucky's mom summed it up well!


I NEVER said my way was best! I was only stating MY OPINION! I am entitled to have one as others have on here. You stated yours and you are WRONG about what I think! Maybe it did not come out right and if you or anyone else took offense then I am sorry! I have never had an outside dog and cannot imagine leaving mine out now. Sorry if thats wrong! It seems that I am not the only one on this forum that thinks this way either. So, go after everyone else too! Talk about nasty!

Jazzys Mom


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

I think this is a sensitive subject as most of us equate outdoor only dogs with neglected dogs. Sadly this is often the case. I do think there are circumstances where clearly it is not. Jemma certainly seems to be very loved and spoiled, hardly neglected. Bravo for making her outdoor life a good one!

I know for me, personally, it would not work. There are far too many extremes in temperature especially in the frigid winters. I also love having my dogs indoors enjoying all the comforts an indoor life provides. I get such HUGE laughs watching my boys watching television. Sampson in particular is a riot. He loves Animal Planet and watches it intently! Just his facial expressions are priceless, he is so animated when he watches other animals on TV!

Again I think a lot of us have seem seriously neglected outdoor dogs. It is a HUGE problem here. For those with outdoor dogs who genuinely care for them, kudos to you for providing them with all of the love and stimulation they need.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Janis,

Jazzy watches Animal Planet and The Dog Whisperer! I can't see the tv 'cause she standing right in front of it! 

Jazzys Mom


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

Doesn't that just tickle your heart??? Sam is such a riot. He absolutely loves to watch TV!! He watches the dog shows and he loves the agility trials!!


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Yeah, it sure does! Jazz is quite taken with the commercial that has the stick figures in it and one of the figures is a dog!

Jazzys Mom


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## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

I got out of the shower this morning and looked out into the bedroom, to see Taz and my boyfriend Eric, snuggled up asleep using the same pillow, and this is something that happens frequently. I could not imagine being in my house and banishing my dogs to the backyard. I can't imagine not having these moments to look at when they don't know I'm watching them. I know the US and other countries may be different, but to say that a golden is not recommended for indoor living is ridiculous. And to hear that come from a breeder just makes me sad.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Jemma's Mum said:


> As for the unhelpful suggestions to move, landlords that will allow indoor dogs are as scarce as hen's teeth & here there is <2% vacancy rate. We have property inspections every 3 months, property managers would soon know if an animal was living inside!
> If caught out, we would recieve a breach notice or a notice to quit the premises! In other words EVICTION. As for the notion that dogs weren't meant to live outside, when then do dogs still have thick coats of hair! Why do Goldens have double coats to protect them from heat & cold. Can you people hear yourselves!!


If you (and by "you" I mean anyone renting...not pointing the finger at you in particular) were going into a situation where you were not allowed a dog inside, why get a dog? No one has answered my question - if you cannot have a dog live with you, why do you get a dog? I ask that honestly. Some of the people who make their dogs live outside are very defensive about it which makes me wonder if on some level, no matter how small it may be, they know in their hearts it isn't the best situation for the dog. 

I will say this again - the number of RESCUE GOLDENS who come from living outdoors is STAGGERING. It has proven time and again to NOT be the best choice for them. Now, are there exceptions? Are there folks who spend 85-90% of their time outside with their dogs? perhaps and in those cases maybe it works. But let me ASSURE you of this.......THOSE are not the typical people owning "yard dogs".


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Jemma's Mum said:


> What if you rent & can't have your dog living inside! that is the case here in Australia!
> Besides we live in a warm climate where it can be too hot inside. Our Jemma is an outdoor dog, she is perfectly happy & has a great bond with me! She sleeps & eats outside, lots of shelter, love & attention. Houses are for people. Animals in the wild do not have the kind of shelters that some people allow modern pets to have. I myself would not lock up or tether Jemma when we go out. Our back yard is fully fenced & she has free rein. I do not believe for one instant that all outdoor dogs are neglected. that is very much a biased opinion!


 
If someone rents and they aren't allowed a dog indoors, in my opinion the logical thing would be to not get a dog. Goldens are not wild. My opinion on outdoor dogs is very biased - VERY. That is because I have had to place hundreds of "yard dogs" who were very unhappy in those situations. If you are certain your dog is perfectly contect living the way he or she does - then maybe you are going that extra mile for your baby. The majority of yard dog owners do not.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

lgnutah said:


> There is no one right way or only way to love a dog and make him part of a family. People need to see things from angles different from their own myopic view.
> 
> While I choose, in my present living situation, to have my dog live inside with me, I do not believe just because the dog "lives outside" he lacks for companionship with his human pack. Why is being cooped up in a crate inside the house while a family goes to work and school for 4-8 hours a day better than a dog who is outside and can move about when he chooses?
> 
> ...


 
The world is totally different now, leash laws apply and people have evolved into better pet owners thank God. In the days of roaming dogs in the neighborhood, people also rubbed their dogs noses in their own waste if they had an accident in the house. Thank God for progress!

No one would argue with you that keeping a dog in a crate exclusively is any better.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> If you (and by "you" I mean anyone renting...not pointing the finger at you in particular) were going into a situation where you were not allowed a dog inside, why get a dog? No one has answered my question - if you cannot have a dog live with you, why do you get a dog? I ask that honestly. Some of the people who make their dogs live outside are very defensive about it which makes me wonder if on some level, no matter how small it may be, they know in their hearts it isn't the best situation for the dog.
> 
> I will say this again - the number of RESCUE GOLDENS who come from living outdoors is STAGGERING. It has proven time and again to NOT be the best choice for them. Now, are there exceptions? Are there folks who spend 85-90% of their time outside with their dogs? perhaps and in those cases maybe it works. But let me ASSURE you of this.......THOSE are not the typical people owning "yard dogs".


I'm glad you have said this too. I said this in an earlier post (if the dog has to live outside then you shouldn't have a dog) and got jumped on by Jemma's mom and told I was judgemental! Well, if this makes us judgemental then so be it the way I see it. Thanks!

Jazzys Mom


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

I can only answer your question from my perspective Lisa. Would I have a dog if it could ONLY be an outdoor dog? Absolutely not. I know what you mean, I could never have a dog that did not live with me in my home! If that were the case I would have to sleep outdoors with them. No, I could not, and would not, do that. They are members of my family.

Today it is cold and miserable and I think they have been out twice on their own. I took them outside to romp a bit for about 10 minutes. Murphy LOVES to be warm, he is curled up by the fire on days like this. They are always close to me when indoors.

I do not own a dog house or any outdoor shelter either. They are NEVER left outside if I am not home. 

Sampson of course was an outdoor, tied, neglect case. I cannot thank the rescue enough for taking him out of the shelter in SW Colorado. He has been with us almost a year. I can say after getting past the "bull in the china shop" stage, he loves being inside. He is ALWAYS in the house with us. When it is warmer I sometimes leave the french door open. He may go out and lie on the deck for a bit, but always close to that open door!


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

justmejanis said:


> Again I think a lot of us have seem seriously neglected outdoor dogs. It is a HUGE problem here. For those with outdoor dogs who genuinely care for them, kudos to you for providing them with all of the love and stimulation they need.


This is a HUGE point for this whole conversation.... I believe that a person can genuinely care for their outdoor dog... Do I think it's ideal? NO. But just because someone has an outdoor dog, doesn't mean that dog isn't cared for...

I think some people hear the phrase "outdoor dog," and picture a dog tied to a post in the backyard and forgotten...


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

Rick I agree, I also do not think it is ideal. I think the point is our relationship with our indoor dogs just has to be different. More complete. In the winter I am likely to be inside 24/7. Highly unlikely I would be outdoors for more than a few minutes at a time. 

My dogs get to watch TV. We get to snuggle on the couch. We all sleep within a few feet of one another. I can wake up and night and be comforted by their gentle snores....

I guess the point is, we share more. Even when I am typing away, they are all within a few feet of me. They could be in the other room, but they choose to be physically close to me.

I think you can have a well cared for outdoor dog, well loved as well. But it has to be different. I guess I have a much more intimate relationship with mine.


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## hello (Apr 3, 2007)

I would never keep my dogs outside--we wouldnt know what to do with the extra space in bed. But if they are cared for-food-walking-playing-loving and have to be out (good shelter) then why not? All of you with outside dogs dont love your animals any less than us with inside dogs-its choice and neccessity.There are just as many bad dog owners who keep them in as out.If I HAD to keep a dog outside-for whatever reason--housing,allergy etc---YES I would have to make it work because I would never be without the love of a dog or for the dog to miss the love that I would have for him. I get more riled over crates-the only good crate to me is one with the door off.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

RickGibbs said:


> This is a HUGE point for this whole conversation.... I believe that a person can genuinely care for their outdoor dog... Do I think it's ideal? NO. But just because someone has an outdoor dog, doesn't mean that dog isn't cared for...
> 
> I think some people hear the phrase "outdoor dog," and picture a dog tied to a post in the backyard and forgotten...


I am referring to dogs who are kept exclusively outdoors - whether it be in fenced yards or pens - dogs who are not allowed indoors at all. A dog can be fed, watered and given shelter but that still does not make for a rich life for that dog. I have seen it first hand so please don't think I am making outrageous statements without evidence to back them up. For anyone who knows me, you will know that I rarely ever come out with a hard and fast position...I am a very liberal person who always takes the other side's point of view and considers it. However in this case, as you can see...I am firm in my beliefs. This is not meant to judge others - you can take my opinion and scroll right past...I do not mean to attack anyone, simply to share my perspective in the spirit of conversation and debate.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

I know I'm probably coming off as a broken record (for those of you old enough to remember what records were) and I hate it most of all when I find myself repeating previous points I've made... nevertheless, here I go and...

Animal cruelty is not dependant upon where the dog is located... cruelty can happen in the house, in the backyard, in the street, in a shelter, anywhere.

When you are not home, I don't think it really matters if the dog is kept inside the house or outside... they probably just try to sleep the time away anyway. The issue is where is your dog when you ARE home? If you are together then both dog and owner benefit emotionally. How can the two of you be together if you cook, eat, sleep, cruise the Internet, write a letter, read a book, watch TV, schlump around in your underwear, bathe, vaccum, do the dishes, and everything else you do only in the house in the house? These are missed opportunities at enjoying life together as a family... can you imagine making the house off limits to a family member (and NO!, I don't mean like Uncle Bob the convicted child molester but) like your child or spouse. We like having Sidney around on lazy Sunday mornings, when doing household chores, by my side during Movie Nights, etc. There are too many interesting moments that happen with Sidney in our lives that we would never experience if Sidney was not in the house.

I'm sure dogs in nature are never separated from pack members by boundaries... pack members are always in close proximity to each other. If your dog views you as a full-fledged pack member, he will want to be aware of your whereabouts as much as possible... often that's why they keep 'checking-in with us' so very frequently... its what real pack members do. If you view your dog as a full-fledged family member you will actually want that type of connection... do you like it when your kid or spouse phones home to say where they are or if they will be late? We crave that close connection with true family members.

I believe the real difference in view points here is how one relates to their dog. To some, dogs are just animals or pets (in the classical sense) and exist within some sort of ranking system which makes them less deserving somehow... to others, dogs are just another family member to be concerned about and loved with the same intensity as any other family member. It is this difference of opinion/mindset as to where a dog fits into the scheme of a human's life that, I believe, is the real misunderstanding in this thread. I'm not saying one way is right or wrong, or that a 'mere backyard pet' cannot be loved or cared for properly... its just that there is more enjoyment to be had by allowing a dog to become a real full-fledged family member. Remember a dog will accept and be grateful for whatever life you allow him to have (so long as its void of cruelty)... he will adapt, what other choice does he have?


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

monomer said:


> I know I'm probably coming off as a broken record (for those of you old enough to remember what records were) and I hate it most of all when I find myself repeating previous points I've made... nevertheless, here I go and...
> 
> Animal cruelty is not dependant upon where the dog is located... cruelty can happen in the house, in the backyard, in the street, in a shelter, anywhere.
> 
> ...


Very well said, Mon!


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

You Da man, Monomer! BTW... I remember what a record is, and when one cost somewhat less then a dollar


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## daddysgirl (Feb 27, 2007)

pjd001 said:


> I think that is a very critical comment and almost borders on nasty. You have no right to say that 'how does your dog know you love her' And the 'exercise she gets is her trying to get away' If your dog is loved whether they are an inside or outside dog and they are healthy and happy then that should be enough. Criticising anothers choice and judging whether the dog is loved or not and the owners motives is not fair and a forum like this is no way to judge anyone's credibility as an owner. Shame on you.


you are right, shame on me, for having my golden inside with me, sleeping with me, knowing that her knee just popped out of place and knowing what to do. please dont preach to me unless you are a DVM which i doubt you are, maybe you are:crossfing , do you know what a luxating superficial digital tendon is in a golden retriever? probably not. i know whats going on with Roxy because she is always next to me. Denise


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## sholley (Dec 24, 2005)

justmejanis said:


> Rick I agree, I also do not think it is ideal. I think the point is our relationship with our indoor dogs just has to be different. More complete. In the winter I am likely to be inside 24/7. Highly unlikely I would be outdoors for more than a few minutes at a time.
> 
> My dogs get to watch TV. We get to snuggle on the couch. We all sleep within a few feet of one another. I can wake up and night and be comforted by their gentle snores....
> 
> ...


Janis I am with you. As I surf the internet (mostly reading GRF) there is always a baby on my feet or begging to be rubbed. You know the golden butt rub...I could not imagine waking up in the am and not having a problem getting out of bed because I have to slide out of the bottom of the bed so as to not wake anyone up. I am very fortunate as in my situation I have a doggie door and they can come and go as they please. I live in a gated community and love my neighbors and have no fears as to their safety when I am not home. Of course fenced in yard. We have had to move three times in the last 2 years and the majority of our moving expense has been in fencing in our property for the kids. Our purchases have all been based on the property and the right house for the dogs, not us. We feel that we live in one of the nicest dog houses around.! 

Is my house clean? Yes! I am also fortunate in that department as to be able to afford to pay someone else to do it for me! I hate to clean bathrooms. Is there still hair everywhere you bet, with two Goldens and a Lab/shep, expect to have hair on your clothes all the time. I do vacuum at least every other day just so we can see the floors. 

We both work 40 plus hours a week, me on first shift him on second so also fortunate that they are only by themselves for about 3 hours but like I said they can come and go as they please so when cold they are warm when hot they are cool. 

I am sorry if it sounds like I am bragging but I am! I am so very very fortunate to be able to give my babies the wonderful life they have and I do not take anything for granted. I am glad they have chosen me for their mommy. My friend once told me that she wanted to move in with me because my dogs live better than she does!!


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

When we bought our current home, on 2.5 acres, it was because of all the dog benefits! The house itself was in desperate need of work. We just wanted the space for our kids! I can honestly say, very few people understand the sacrifices we have made for our dogs.

I have been unemployed since Spencer was diagnosed with cancer back in 2005. His initial prognosis was 2 months. I told my husband I could not leave this dying dog. He wholeheartedly agreed. Spencer lived for seven months. My depression lasted nearly that long. Then we rescued Sampson. He was a neglected OUTDOOR only dog who required full time attention! I have never been back to work.

Finincially it has been a disaster, but my dogs have a wonderful, happy life!

Sampson is a real charmer...still needs a lot of attention and he gets it. He is such a joy, and he and Murphy are best friends. I could NEVER leave these dogs outdoors. I honestly believe that Samspon is so grateful to have found his way here. His life is totally opposite what it used to be. He has a loving home, and he knows it. I feel fortunate to be able to give this to him and our other two.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I completely agree... Monomer, great post. 

I do know outdoor dogs and a lot of show dogs that live in kennel runs or vari kennels (with play time in the yard) who are cared for, but how can their lives even begin to compare to the lives my dogs lead? It's not always a matter of food, water, shelter, clean bedding, vet care, and even exercise... it's the bond, the time spent, the day to day things.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I think dogs outside can be taken care of, BUT, I dont feel they get the same enter action they would living inside....All of mine are inside dogs, if I couldnt have them inside then I would be moving.......One of mine is always around, we have a dog door and they can come and go...they do spend alot of time outside (while IM home) but they come in a lot just to see what IM doing....I dont leave them out while IM gone...just dont want to risk , a kid coming by and opening my gate or someone throwing food to them that could have something in it.....They all sleep with me in bed..... and is my house clean...for the most part.... I dont freak out when they get muddy and come in....


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

As an aside, some of the happiest dogs I have known were outside dogs- who lives with their homeless owners! There are several in my city I know well, and help with things time to time. One is pushing 14 and in great shape. He is with his owner 24 hours a day... outside, of course... but WITH his master. Those two are so close- that dog has a life many yard dogs would envy (and some indoor dogs, too). This is exactly why I am opposed to outside dogs (unless you're homeless!).


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

yes, I agree...also some of the most socialised, friendliest dogs are owned by the homeless...they are exposed to everyone and everything so are always so laid back and well mannered doggies!


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

It's really amazing when I think about it. Growing up our dogs could run loose around the neighborhood. Dogs were welcomed in the homes of other neighbors whether or not they lived there! They all got along and none of them were really ever trained. Yet, they fit in everywhere and had wonderful manners.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> As an aside, some of the happiest dogs I have known were outside dogs- who lives with their homeless owners! There are several in my city I know well, and help with things time to time. One is pushing 14 and in great shape. He is with his owner 24 hours a day... outside, of course... but WITH his master. Those two are so close- that dog has a life many yard dogs would envy (and some indoor dogs, too). This is exactly why I am opposed to outside dogs (unless you're homeless!).


I think this is the only time a dog should ever live outside ----- if the dog's owner also lives outside with it! A dog doesn't care where he lives, inside or outside ---- as long as he is ALONGSIDE his master! My dogs live inside, as I stated before. They have a dog run attached to the side of the house so when they are out they are safe from predators, kids, etc. I still worry that someone may open the gate and they will get out. I still worry late at night, if they happen to be out for a bit, that a coyote may be around. I usually stay out with them late at night and early in the morning. Sunny sleeps in bed with us, Jazz is cozy in her crate in the kitchen. BTW, Jazz is ONLY crated if we are not home or at night. I am retired so am home all day, every day except for short times of shopping, etc. They are on the couch with us when we watch TV, under my desk as I type, under the table when we have morning coffee and are center of attention when we have company. They are part of our family! I'm sorry if this offends anyone but how can a dog be a part of your family if the dog stays outside all the time and you are inside? This just doesn't add up to me. Either let the dog be a part of your family --- INSIDE the house or go live outside in the yard with it! I would never have known that my beloved Dakota was having a stroke if he had been an outside dog! His favorite spot to sleep was laying in front of our front door in the foyer. I must have heard something and got up. It was 2am. Dakota was dying right in front of me! Hubby got up and we held him for the 40 minutes it took him to die. He died with us with him. If he had been outside he would have died alone. If the dog is outside - then you should be outside. If you are not going to live outside with your dog then find a place that will let your dog inside. Or, don't have one. Its that simple!

At the risk of being attacked
Jazzys Mom


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Kimm said:


> It's really amazing when I think about it. Growing up our dogs could run loose around the neighborhood.


I had thought about this the other day when I took our garbage to the curb...... When growing up, we had to tie our lids down, because the neighborhood dogs would get into the garbage.... You don't see dogs roaming around like we used to....


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

RickGibbs said:


> I had thought about this the other day when I took our garbage to the curb...... When growing up, we had to tie our lids down, because the neighborhood dogs would get into the garbage.... You don't see dogs roaming around like we used to....


Thank god for that


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Right now we are getting 2-3 inches of rain (it's awful). I was thinking of this thread earlier today - imagining what it would be like if my dogs lived outdoors. I couldn't do it.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> Right now we are getting 2-3 inches of rain (it's awful). I was thinking of this thread earlier today - imagining what it would be like if my dogs lived outdoors. I couldn't do it.


You must be getting what we had yesterday and the day before...it was horrible...... Well ok my dogs didnt think so...they love playing in the rain an mud, but they could come in if they wanted....


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Thank god for that


But isn't it funny how times change? 

We took in a dog who just showed up at our house.... We called him Yeller, and we bought food for him and let him in the house (though my mom wasn't happy about that) and treated him like he was our own dog.

But he'd hang around for a few days, then leave us.... Then a week later, he'd show up again. We did this for a couple months before learning that he lived several blocks away, and his name was really Barney. He belonged to another kid close to my age. And I guess he was resourceful about getting out of their fenced backyard, which he did at our house too.

I just can't imagine my dogs disappearing for days at a time, now.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I wasn't around for those days like you, Ancient One 

But my parents (who grew up on the same street, eight years apart in age) often both speak of King, the German Shepherd on the block that every kid feared, and other neighborhood dogs.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

> He died with us with him. If he had been outside he would have died alone.


Amen to that Jazzy's Mom. I know what a comfort it is to you now that you were able to be there with him then.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

We were lucky. In our neighborhood, no one feared the dogs. We had some great pets! One neighbor grew up to be police officer in a k9-unit. Another was in animal control. I'm just crazy for dogs and so on. I'm glad they don't run around loose anymore, but I wonder why they were so well trained and good mannered. Although, a few trash cans did get knocked over now and then.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

vrocco1 said:


> Thanks, I'm really proud of this, so he's a couple more


I can't believe how nice that looks!? You built that!??


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## noblenewf (Jul 7, 2008)

timberwolfe said:


> Well, I don't like the idea myself. I understand your circumstances may make it impossible for you, but dogs just weren't meant to live alone outside. I've seen many houses that have a kennel outdoors with a doghouse and that is where the dog lives. Sometimes with no human interaction  and sometimes with lots of human attention, which isn't anyway near as bad, but still not for me.
> 
> The reason; Dogs are pack animals. They are social animals who need to be part of a pack. That is you and your family. They like to be with their pack and are not happy when by themselves. Sure they will adjust and will welcome your attention and when you are with them they will be happy, but how about the rest of the time?
> 
> Without the Pack Structure and the social interaction with their pack, dogs can develop behaviour and dominance problems. My first question to anyone who leaves their dog outside 24/7 is "Why have a dog?" The reason why I got a dog was because I wanted a friend and companion to do things with. I waited a long time until I had the property and resources to properly care for a dog even though I wanted very badly to have one. If you don't want a dirty house or if you don't want to take the time to properly exercise your dog, then you have to find a breed right for you (it won't be a Golden).



I agree! I don't understand why people get a dog if they don't want it inside with them interacting with them and their family. My dogs are my family and I am not above living with furry creatures in my house. With a Golden and a Newf my floors are hairy and slobbery and frequented with muddy pawprints...but my dogs' company is more important to me than an immaculate house. Also, if you are worried about the dogs relieving themselves inside the house- housetraining is a a learned behavior. It will require time and dedication to train the dog that those behaviors occur outside. To me, putting them in a pen or a fenced in area to avoid having to train a dog isn't the answer. This is my opinion. Like it or not.


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## Barbara & Vinnie (Jul 7, 2008)

twogoldens324 said:


> I hate to see dogs kept outside. The only exception would be hunting dogs and then I would like to see them have nice kennels, not tied to a box.


Since when are goldens no hunting dogs anymore? 

I don't like dogs kept outside, especially people loving dogs such as goldens. Vinnie's lying on the couch here with me while I'm typing this. Wouldn't want it any other way...

And as another poster, we'll never leave Vinnie alone for more than a few hours (eventually that should be max 4 hours), now that's no more then one as he's only 16 weeks old.


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

Ljilly28 said:


> I can't believe how nice that looks!? You built that!??


hehehe I love when these old threads come back up again.

It's hard to imagine, but yes, I designed and built it . I have to admit that a sub-contractor (I was the general contractor) did the site prep and concrete. 

The people at Mason Kennel (the fence supplier) said they never saw such a detailed design. I'm an engineer, so detailed designs are normal for me. LOL


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## Aprilpa (Mar 24, 2008)

I think it depends on the situation and the way the dog is being kept. I have 5 inside dogs, but I do have one that lives outside exclusively and has for 5 years. If we have extreme temperatures in the winter or summer, she comes in the basement, but that isn't a common occurance. 

If she is inside with us at all, she frets and paces and will not settle. She acts the same way when she is in the yard. She will evetually just go get in one of the boxes and stay there. She seems much more content where she is. Which is one of the reasons she came here to begin with. She was so destructive, aggressive, and messy at the boarding kennel I offered to bring her here because I had an outside one. She turned into a different dog once she was put outside.

The other dogs have a fenced yard, and spend just as much time in it as they do in the house. They are always in at night or during bad weather, but if it is sunny and nice outside, that is usually where you will find them.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I am a firm believer in goldens being inside with the family. They are people dogs and don't do well being left outside alone. I know some people treat their goldens well and spend lots of time with them even if they sleep outside in a kennel. My first golden ended up living outside at 1 year old in a dog house because my exhusband grew up on a farm and dogs lived outside. Well, he left and the golden stayed!

I learned from that and my other goldens started out inside and stayed inside dogs and my current husband gets it.I feel so bad when I see a dog tied up or alone in a fenced backyard barking or lying there. That's just my opinion.


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## Dalton's mom (Apr 5, 2008)

I don't like the idea. It does not work for me, I want my dogs with me. It's ok if they want to be outside, but when they're ready to come in.......I let them in. They are my family.


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

Thank you to all of the people who have agreed that we cannot compare our dogs to wild animals. Yes wolves like the outdoors, but that is because we wouldn't have the opportunity to invite them in.

Dogs have evolved in that they depend on us humans for basic needs such as food and water and shelter but also for attention and social interaction. Any dog that is cooped up in a backyard for an extended amount of time will become restless and destructive. Have any of you tried staying outside for days and weeks on end by yourself? Not fun in my opinion.

Also, to say that the dog enjoys it is only half of the issue. Yes dogs like being outside. There is stuff to chase and new smells and new digs. But all dogs would love the chance to be inside with their "pack". Any dog who does not like the indoors, sadly, does not know how to live in a normal family environment. And if the dog messes inside, he/she was probably not housetrained.

Also, in the summer, I cannot imagine leaving ANY dog outside for any prolonged period of time. Any dog can suffer from heat exhastion or heat stroke which is VERY series. My dogs are only outside in the early-mid morning hours and then inside. They go back out in the evening before coming in for good at around 7:00 pm. It is just too hot to do it any other way!

Please, do your dogs a favor and let them be a part of the pack. Sorry to vent but this is a topic I have strong beliefs about.


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## AmbersDad (Dec 25, 2007)

I also have an extremely opinionatedview on having your pup live inside the house. I couldn't add much to this discussion that hsa not already been stted and restated but i do agree that Golden in particular have a VERY strong inate NEED to be with humans on a constant level, we are their pack, period. It's a sad day when a golden is relagated to live outside without much contact that they live for and strive for. I've seen many wonderful loving families who in the end spend what they consider "alot" of time(About 1-2 hours per day) with their outside dog which usually consists of a 20 minute walk(if the dog is so lucky that day) and the rest is spent siting in the yard as their "master" drinks coffee and reads the days paper after dinner. What lovely bonding time. sheeeesh I too have waited for many many YEARS to get this pup to be sure that not only could i afford the dog and make sure it has all it's health needs taken care of but to also be sure I had a decent house with nice yard for the her andmore importantly that I was in the correct place in life to be the owner of this wonderful animal. It is a major responsibility, something alot of folks seem to miss when purchasing a dog, when owning a dog. Making sure oyu have the time to devote to the dog, to train it correctly, to be able to give it the love and leadership it not only desire but has a deep need for. Too often dogs are bought as "this is what families do" and the dog is relagated to live outdoors and rarely gets much of any of the above mentioned needs. What a real shame. Anyway, I digress. It's easy to see I disagree 99.5% of the time to see dogs living outside. I can honestly say(and I live in a very well to do area for lack of better wording) of all the dogs I've seen forced to live outside none have ever had the sort of care they deserved and none have come close to having the type of love and pack/family involvement that a common indoor dog would have. Just my humble opinionated rant.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

This is an old thread...wonder if I've already commented.

In short...I believe most dogs do fine outside if their is enough contact with the family. But it takes more work and commitment from the owner. Many people have outside dogs due to the fact they rent. 

Unfortunately nowdays with our computer games, and tv....many dogs don't get that attention. In the olden days (20-30 years ago..), people and kids were outside much more and with the dog.


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