# Gun shy girl....



## OnGoldenPond (Mar 30, 2011)

My Maggie has tremendous drive and reliability. She would be perfect at field trials, and I really want to work with her in getting her WC. BUT, she is very gun shy. I have tried here and there to desensitize her to the noise with no luck. Basically, shooting off guns at a distance, and slowly moving closer, etc. No luck. What can I do to help her? 

She does tend to get a little stressed out at times, but can still perform under stress. I see this in her at OB trials, agility...

Thank you!


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Instead of just moving closer with the noise (just closer and closer exposure does not provide the behavioural modification needed to overcome her fear and imprint a positive association), you need to pair the noise with something she values--like BIRDS!! Essentially you want her to associate the noise not as something scary, but as connected to her getting to pick up a wonderful duck. Or even a live pigeon (one way to keep using the bird is to take a small plastic water bottle and have just an inch or so of water in the bottom of it and tie it by a short piece of decoy line or such to the bird's foot. It will give the experience of a flying bird for her but will only be able to fly a short distance). Start with a starter pistol that doesn't make as big of a bang and have the shooter stand WAY deep of your running line, and the bird thrower much closer. Shoot then throw bird. You can gradually have the bird thrower move towards the gun station so she has to get close to the shooter to pick up the bird--this is why a live bird may be a good option, as her desire for it should help to carry her. Then repeat using a shotgun with primer loads (they are not as loud as field trial poppers). Repeat the session another day with the gunner moving closer as the bird thrower moves out. It may take you several sessions before you can have the gunner off to the side (which is a scenario you will sometimes get in a test--a line gunner instead of a gunner out in the field). When she is confident with all this, then I would wrap up by doing some flyers out at a good distance, so that she gets the reward of a fresh bird with the noise of live rounds.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I don't have the same problem. When my dogs hear a gunshot their heads whip around to the direction the shot comes from and they are on point. They go completely stiff with anticipation ready to launch.

So I thought about how did my dogs get that way? Here's how our introduction went. Many times we went to retrieve dead birds this winter at the same place. The location was a frozen snowy marsh. We did not allow the dogs to play in this area ever, just retrieve birds. We would start the morning with bumpers then move to birds. After retrieving for a few weeks in this manner we introduced this starter pistol. The dogs had already been going to that same location multiple times for birds, so they were excited to get birds. The starter pistol was shot while the bird was in the air. The distance was about 25 yards. the starter pistol is not super loud. They puppies instantly made the connection between the sound and getting a bird. We did not have any fearful puppies. Last weekend I had my puppy at a hunt test where shotguns were fired, all it did was amp her up in anticipation for getting a bird.

I think you should go back to the basics. Retrieve without noise. When you introduce noise, make sure you dog gets a bird. Make sure that you make it simple, bang means bird. Shoot the pistol from far away and throw the at the same time. That connection needs to be made at the two things go together. 

I asked my husband how he grew up training hunting dogs. He said make sure that the dog has a fresh kill when the sound of the gun is heard. When a dog has a fresh kill they will make that connection. Gun means bird.

I hope I helped. I'm not a trainer all I know is what has worked for my dogs. I've only got 2 that have ever had birds so I'm definitely not an expert. Others will have better ideas than mine.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Alaska7133 said:


> I don't have the same problem. When my dogs hear a gunshot their heads whip around to the direction the shot comes from and they are on point. They go completely stiff with anticipation ready to launch.
> 
> So I thought about how did my dogs get that way? Here's how our introduction went. Many times we went to retrieve dead birds this winter at the same place. The location was a frozen snowy marsh. We did not allow the dogs to play in this area ever, just retrieve birds. We would start the morning with bumpers then move to birds. After retrieving for a few weeks in this manner we introduced this starter pistol. The dogs had already been going to that same location multiple times for birds, so they were excited to get birds. The starter pistol was shot while the bird was in the air. The distance was about 25 yards. the starter pistol is not super loud. They puppies instantly made the connection between the sound and getting a bird. We did not have any fearful puppies. Last weekend I had my puppy at a hunt test where shotguns were fired, all it did was amp her up in anticipation for getting a bird.
> 
> ...


This is very close to what I do when starting a new puppy. But with this dog who has an existing negative association the gunfire needs to be farther away than 25 yards.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Sorry I posted while you were posting and didn't see your post. I'm totally inexperienced at what it takes to get a dog used to hearing gunshots after becoming scared.


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## OnGoldenPond (Mar 30, 2011)

Thank you...that does help a great deal. Sounds like I have my work cut out!  Wish me luck!


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Alaska7133 said:


> Sorry I posted while you were posting and didn't see your post. I'm totally inexperienced at what it takes to get a dog used to hearing gunshots after becoming scared.


 
Not a problem! Once a negative association is established, gunshyness is a bigger deal that can actually be exacerbated if the dog is "flooded". While exposure therapy is often used in human phobias, part of the process is having the phobic reason through their fear to consciously deal with the experience, which of course cognitively dogs cannot do! So for dogs (like small toddler aged children) we have to scaffold the experience--essentially we have to break down the neural pathways that have formed that tell the dog "Time to be scared" and write new pathways that tell it "This is good!" Because the process is unlearning, as well as teaching, and then learning a new response, some behaviourists estimate it can take 3 times as long to write the new response as it did to create the original one.


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