# Can the runt of a litter grow out of it and show well?



## flutterbye

I'm considering buying a female puppy from a litter, and she's the smallest one, but she's the last girl available. Her parents are both very successful show dogs in Europe. (Both have all health clearances, and are multiple champions.) Right now she looks a little scrawny, but I LOVE the look of both her mom and dad, so I really am hoping she can grow out of this so I can show her. Although I have attended many shows, where I live there are not many locals who show, so I don't have anyone to ask. I have not shown before, so I appreciate your opinions.


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## CarolinaCasey

My male puppy was one of the smaller boys in the litter but he's growing up nicely. Does the breeder show her dogs? She should be able to help evaluate the litter and pick the best female puppy in terms of structure that will be what she believe to be competitive in the show ring. There is much more to look at that her size, such as front/rear angulation, topline, etc- I'm just learning but this is just the tip of the iceberg in evaluating a litter!! If you're going to attempt to show this puppy, you really need to have 1st pick out of the entire litter so you and the breeder (provided she isn't keeping a female) can put the best puppy in the ring. Many dogs from English lines or from Europe don't seem to be very successful in the AKC ring but some do well in Canada. If you're interested in showing in AKC conformation, you might be better off selecting a dog from American lines. Do you care to share a photo of the puppy and or her parents?


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## ILoveMyGolden

My "runt" turned out to be the pick of the litter and our breeder knew he was a special boy from the get-go. One small defect made him inappropriate for the ring (bump on tail), but in terms of size he caught up and of course exceeded his sister's in size and all of them in looks (biased and unbiased!). I was nervous being told he was ours, he looked about two weeks younger than his littermates, and not as developed, with time, he became a handsome young pup!

That being said, if you want to show, you want the first pick of the litter and that should have been the understanding with the breeder prior to the litter being born, no?

ETA: little Fin eating with his littermates! http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h267/SIMPS27/May264.jpg, by September you wouldn't know there was a size difference! http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h267/SIMPS27/September019.jpg


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## iansgran

Jaro was the runt. In the April 2010 puppies thread he was always the smallest, lightest, until about 10 months when he caught up. So they can grow to be the same size as the littermates. I am not sure they always do. About showing, I know little, so ask the breeder.


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## Ninde'Gold

Tucker was the smallest, now he is a huge boy at like 90lbs. (he was small at only 9lbs at 10 weeks)

Size at that age can be deceiving.


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## flutterbye

CarolinaCasey said:


> My male puppy was one of the smaller boys in the litter but he's growing up nicely. Does the breeder show her dogs? She should be able to help evaluate the litter and pick the best female puppy in terms of structure that will be what she believe to be competitive in the show ring. There is much more to look at that her size, such as front/rear angulation, topline, etc- I'm just learning but this is just the tip of the iceberg in evaluating a litter!! If you're going to attempt to show this puppy, you really need to have 1st pick out of the entire litter so you and the breeder (provided she isn't keeping a female) can put the best puppy in the ring. Many dogs from English lines or from Europe don't seem to be very successful in the AKC ring but some do well in Canada. If you're interested in showing in AKC conformation, you might be better off selecting a dog from American lines. Do you care to share a photo of the puppy and or her parents?



Yes, she shows her dogs, and has many champions. She has only a few dogs and really seems to care for showing and breeding quality, healthy puppies. (She has a pet that is neutered because he didn't pass his elbow test, for example.) Here is a photo of the mom, and also one of the dad. I actually like the color of the dad, and it looks like the pup has a lighter color, but not super light like the mom. The pic of my pup is at the bottom. I hope she doesn't mind me sharing them. 

Mom-










Dad-









My girl at 6.5 weeks-


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## FlyingQuizini

Smallest puppy does not = runt. A true "runt" has a medical problem that renders him not only smaller, but usually, overall not as healthy.


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## Tahnee GR

The breeder should be able to tell you the good points and the not-so-good points of the puppy, from a conformational aspect. It has very little to do with size at this age, unless she is very fine-boned. However, unless she was deliberately held back for a show home by the breeder, chances are slim that she is of good enough quality to be competitive in the ring in the United States. While some European dogs do not do well in the US ring, at least one-Australian import Ch Goldtreve Sydney Traveler-has recently.

I would also make sure that the clearances for both parents are all there-OVC/BVA/OFA for hips and elbows, heart clearances by a cardiologist and recent eye clearances (within 12-15 months) on both parents. There should be a history of clearances behind the parents as well, although different countries have different requirements.


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## flutterbye

Tahnee GR said:


> The breeder should be able to tell you the good points and the not-so-good points of the puppy, from a conformational aspect. It has very little to do with size at this age, unless she is very fine-boned. However, unless she was deliberately held back for a show home by the breeder, chances are slim that she is of good enough quality to be competitive in the ring in the United States. While some European dogs do not do well in the US ring, at least one-Australian import Ch Goldtreve Sydney Traveler-has recently.
> 
> I would also make sure that the clearances for both parents are all there-OVC/BVA/OFA for hips and elbows, heart clearances by a cardiologist and recent eye clearances (within 12-15 months) on both parents. There should be a history of clearances behind the parents as well, although different countries have different requirements.


Wow, Goldtreve Sydney Traveler is gorgeous!


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## flutterbye

ILoveMyGolden said:


> My "runt" turned out to be the pick of the litter and our breeder knew he was a special boy from the get-go. One small defect made him inappropriate for the ring (bump on tail), but in terms of size he caught up and of course exceeded his sister's in size and all of them in looks (biased and unbiased!). I was nervous being told he was ours, he looked about two weeks younger than his littermates, and not as developed, with time, he became a handsome young pup!
> 
> That being said, if you want to show, you want the first pick of the litter and that should have been the understanding with the breeder prior to the litter being born, no?
> 
> ETA: little Fin eating with his littermates! http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h267/SIMPS27/May264.jpg, by September you wouldn't know there was a size difference! http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h267/SIMPS27/September019.jpg



That is SO cute! You're right, that's quite a difference between him and his siblings. But now I can't even pick out which one is him in that 2nd pic.


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## flutterbye

> Many dogs from English lines or from Europe don't seem to be very successful in the AKC ring but some do well in Canada. If you're interested in showing in AKC conformation, you might be better off selecting a dog from American lines.


Casey, just to answer this question, I actually started by looking at American Goldens. That's all I've had for years, and to be quite honest, I didn't even know that an "English" golden existed. Seriously, I know that sounds dumb, but I just thought all goldens were that...golden. I ran into the lighter ones online, and fell in love with the lighter color. I don't care for the super white, but just a light cream is gorgeous to me. If we can't show this pup for whatever reason, we're totally fine with that. I just wanted to try something new, and I love all things golden, light or dark.


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## oakleysmommy

She is adorable!!! At 6.5 weeks she doesnt look that small to me, great coloring!!


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## flutterbye

oakleysmommy said:


> She is adorable!!! At 6.5 weeks she doesnt look that small to me, great coloring!!


Thanks Oakley's mommy.


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## Tahnee GR

flutterbye said:


> Wow, Goldtreve Sydney Traveler is gorgeous!


He is  Member Doolin is expecting a litter by him in a couple of weeks. I don't think he is taking any more reservations at this point, until he sees how many puppies she is having.


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## GoldenSail

Ok, bear in mind that smallest puppy does not mean it will be the smallest adult from the litter. And what does the breeder think? That is very important, since the breeder is going to be experienced and know their lines well.

FWIW, my bitch was the biggest girl in the litter (or at least one of the bigger ones) but as a two year old she is a small bitch--21.5" and 50 lbs. I have not seen her sisters, but it would not surprise me if she is smaller than them. She may have had the size advantage as a pup because she was the most outgoing and bossy pup of the litter--hence gets the most food and attention.


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## flutterbye

GoldenSail said:


> And what does the breeder think?


She says she thinks that the pup could do very well in shows. She said her head, neck and movement are very nice. She's going to send me more pictures tomorrow.


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## DebP

*Goldtreve Sydney Traveler*

He is beautiful and a vey sweet boy, he has a great temperment. I met him when I picked up a pup from a litter by him.


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