# What's next for my very obedient puppy? Advice needed!



## jnjmc (Mar 31, 2015)

Mods: I just realized this might have been better in the training forum if you want to move it there!

Charlie completed a puppy kindergarten class last month and we want to enroll in another class, but we're not sure about the next step. I have dog training experience and he's so biddable that we went way ahead of his puppy class. He's actually ahead of all the classes I've found that are designed for adolescent puppies. I'm 150% sure he'd pass the final exams with every kind of distraction imaginable because we practice all those things on a daily basis when I take him out all over the city and to dog parks. He's currently 4.5 months old.

To give you an idea of where he's at:

Here's the list of things he knows: sit, down, stand, stay, come, on and off leash heel, call to front, drop it, leave it, place, watch me, wait (stop and look back at me), head down, crawl, spin, shake, and crate.

He can do everything without treats, in sequences, immediately upon asking. He walks on a loose leash at a heel. If I ask for his attention, he completely ignores dogs, squirrels, cats, people on our walks. He does not jump on people and has great manners. He lies at our feet whenever we stop somewhere to sit, or if i'm standing in one place for some time while talking/paying/shopping. He's so quiet that people don't even notice him at first when we are out at restaurants and cafes. He has great recall. We live in a very dog friendly city so he has been going everywhere with me since the day we brought him home. He also lives with two large flighted parrots so he doesn't chase anything, he just sits and watches whatever small animal might cross our path. 

You can also read through the thread I have for him (link in my signature) for videos. 

He is just this extremely calm, patient, biddable, and confident little thing and I don't want him to get bored in his next class. We felt in our last puppy class that it was a waste of time and setting him back for a variety of reasons.

I need advice on what kind of classes would be appropriate for him since he's still a puppy. I know he might become more challenging as he hits his adolescent phase, which is why I would like to enroll in a formal training class. I would love to try agility, rally, and obedience trials, but almost everything I'm seeing is for dogs 1+ years old. What should we do?


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

If I were in the Seattle area, this is where I would go for classes:

Family Dog Training Center

I would look at getting your dog into their beginning competition obedience class. It says they can start at six months, but you could ask if they would take them a little sooner. If not, you could schedule a couple of private lessons in that time to start you off.


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## GoldenSkies (Feb 27, 2014)

Wow congrats Charlie! what an amazing smart boy. I am not sure on what to tell you since we are in Vancouver and our trainer accepts the dogs that are ready into her more advanced classes. Hopefully you will get some better advice on here, I just wanted to congratulate your little boy for being such a smarty pants...


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## goldy1 (Aug 5, 2012)

If you can find an agility class or club, it would be tons of fun. Just make sure they keep the bars low and avoid the jumping until he's older. Chance started agility at 5 months in an age-appropriate class.

Sounds like Charlie is ready for a CGC practice class. If you think it's too soon, maybe the S.T.A.R. puppy program.

http://www.akc.org/dog-owners/training/canine-good-citizen/

AKC S.T.A.R. Puppy - American Kennel Club


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## jnjmc (Mar 31, 2015)

Thank you so much for your replies! You gave me lots of ideas and I'm in the middle of researching the options. I think he's ready for a CGC prep class and I think he would love beginning agility.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

He is also a perfect age for beginning field training. Ever think about a junior hunter test (JH) or working certificate (WC)? He only needs to be 6 months old to compete in either.


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## jnjmc (Mar 31, 2015)

I've contacted a few different training centers about where to place Charlie. They've responded that he should be placed in puppy elementary school type of classes so that he doesn't miss out on the puppy playtime part. They're all saying he's too young for their more advanced classes. This is regardless of what he already knows. Do I keep looking for a training center that better meets his needs or are they right that he needs to stay in puppy classes? 

He gets plenty of playtime at the dog park and we have access to puppy play clubs. I don't see that as a necessary part of his obedience training at this point. But I'm not a professional dog trainer so I'm not sure?

In his last puppy class, we would be told to lure our puppies back to get their leash on after each play break. We didn't have to move from our seats since he has great recall. Then he had to sit for several minutes as the only leashed puppy while everyone else was up running around with treats trying to lure their pups back. Then Charlie would of course start to get restless and pull on his leash trying to run around like the other puppies. I felt that this kind of scenario happening every week was just detrimental to his training and I just want to avoid a similar situation. Also, when they'd use him as an example for a command he already knows, they would go back to basics where they lure him to do the action with treats every second. I was really upset by that because I only treat him intermittently. 

I'm limited to only a handful of training centers within Seattle/<15min drive from our house because Charlie still gets really carsick.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Can you find an obedience club? Maybe something with drop-in classes which is essentially independent study. Then when he's old enough for the advanced classes, move him into there. 

Since he is so biddable, maybe Rally or Competition Obedience could be in your future.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

jnjmc said:


> I've contacted a few different training centers about where to place Charlie. They've responded that he should be placed in puppy elementary school type of classes so that he doesn't miss out on the puppy playtime part. They're all saying he's too young for their more advanced classes. This is regardless of what he already knows. Do I keep looking for a training center that better meets his needs or are they right that he needs to stay in puppy classes?


I can tell you right there that you might not be contacting the right training centers just yet.... because a lot of people who are serious about getting into competition are not fans of making "puppy playtime" part of obedience classes you are paying for. 

And even those which are OK about puppy playtime being part of something you are paying for - usually have a cut off at 4 months for a lot of reasons, including the fact you have hormones getting involved. 

4-5 months - you probably would be looking into some kind of Boot camp or obedience 1 type of class. This is where you are getting more serious about teaching the fundamentals for heel position, walking on loose lead, sitting automatically when you stop walking, going down on one command, working towards off leash recalls with other dogs around. Teaching front position. Teaching sit and down stays. 

If you go with a training club that is geared towards getting people up into the competition classes, they will also be focusing on teaching you a lot of the stuff you need to know prior to competing in obedience. A lot of this is weaning off the reliance of addition commands, overt guidance, food and toys... 

These training clubs should also be looking to help people get more into advanced competition obedience - which means you will start learning position changes (moving down during recall, stationary sit/down with you 10 feet away, etc), formal retrieves, and jumps (for a young dog - it would be "baby jumps").

*** Meant to add, you can talk to a training director about getting him evaluated for where he belongs. Seeing the list of stuff he knows - I'd say he's probably beyond a basic level of obedience. More experienced trainers do skip a lot of the basic level classes with young dogs and jump right into competition level classes. But they do that because they already know how to teach all the difference stuff and their dogs are right at the same level as the other dogs. I guess a good example is my Bertie was 12 weeks old when he started coming to novice/open classes with my older dog. My older boy - I did all the level classes because I'd been away from dog training for a few years and learning level by level helped brush up a lot of stuff I'd forgotten and I also learned a lot of stuff I never knew.


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## jnjmc (Mar 31, 2015)

If any of you have the time, can you look at these training centers? I sent them an email similar to my original post. I've linked their websites and included the responses I received from them. Would you take your pup to any of them? And would you follow their recommendation to enroll in their puppy classes? Or should I start broadening my search to the surrounding towns for other options?

Ahimsa

"I would recommend starting with Puppy Elementary. He's too young for Jr High
and he'll miss out on the playtimes if you age him out of puppy classes too
soon. I would take Puppy Elementary, Jr High, Advanced Manners and Control
Unleashed if you are interested in you CGC."

Dogs Day Out
"Because of his age, I would recommend the Basics, mainly because he has not been alive long enough to have proofed (thus generalized) all of these behaviors! Dogs must be 5 months to take the Basics and generally at least 6 months to take intermediate level courses (Beyond Basics, Tricks). It is certainly up to you, I am fine with you registering for Beyond Basics if you choose, but you may find behaviors changing a bit when he enters adolescence  You must be familiar with clicker (or minimally, verbal mark & reward) training in order to take the intermediate level classes. "

Puppy Perfectors
"I would still recommend the puppy k classes for this age. Everyone moves at their own rate. I always show you what would be the next step in working with your dog. And with all puppies, they go through different stages and one moment they are perfect and when they enter the next stage, you wonder where this puppy came from. I have taken many dogs through competition obedience so when I see puppies and owners ready for new material, I am more than anxious to let you know what the next step is. My 14 month old pup already has her beginning Novice title, her Rally Novice and Advance title and next week we will be showing in Rally Excellent."


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## jnjmc (Mar 31, 2015)

I googled Seattle obedience training clubs and didn't find very much. The one I found on the AKC website had just one terrible review on Yelp and didn't really have any info on their classes on the website. Welcome to Obedience Training

Also, the Family Dog Training Center suggested by Loisiana is a bit far away for us. Charlie gets really carsick on most drives so we really wanted to stay within city limits. I don't want him to throw up in the car only to be expected to do an hour of training and then be full of treats to throw up on the way back.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

How far away is the one that Jodie recommended? 

The reason why I ask is I would totally NEVER consider the dog training places that are very "local" just because they are a short distance away. A lot of it is because the local places have zero ability to go beyond puppy playtime and "teaching tricks". Because the people teaching the classes have never done anything outside of very basic training themselves. 

The training club that I really love and am actually meaning to send my check for the next round of Monday drop in classes... is about 25 minutes away from where I live. It's a very warm and active club. I've trained there for about 8 years now. 

The place I train at on Wednesdays (when I can - lately it's been tough because of my work schedule conflicting with class times) - is about 35 minutes away. The person teaching those classes is well known and travels around giving seminars. 

The place I take privates from every other week is about 50 minutes away. And these are invaluable because they are taught by somebody I have a lot of respect for. And she is a very generous person as far as her time and dedication. Plus golden person. 

Other places I've been to... 45 minutes away to a small but basically the oldest training club in the state.... and there's another club about 40 minutes the other direction. And another club about 30 minutes a totally different direction. 

All of these clubs aren't really right smack dab where I live... but in many cases, I have a shorter drive to these locations than some of the other people who are very serious about training. We have a lot of people who drive 2+ hours across the state to get to fun matches... and some of these training locations have people driving up from other states to take classes or privates.

And even that is hardly anything considering what other people have done. The lady I take privates with used to drive from Michigan down into Virginia to take privates with a very successful golden person down there. 

My point is that if you really want to get out there and go places with your pup... you have to seek out places that will help you get there. Most of us aren't going to find ideal training locations ten minutes from our houses.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Can your talk to your vet about meds to settle your pup's stomach? I agree w/ Megora, find a serious place to train. I'm driving 35 min one way for one obedience club and will drive an hour each way if we get into the foundations for agility. Having the right instructors who have a well-structured training program are invaluable. I've done training classes with a variety of different places/instructor types & can't believe what a difference it makes to go thru a dog training club that has the capability to prepare its students for competitive sports.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Do not waste your time with the first two. You could try out the third, although I'd still recommend the other place I posted, but maybe you could start closer to home and move to over there later as he gets older and you work out his car sickness


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## MaureenM (Sep 20, 2011)

I want to second all of the advice you've gotten. Our doberman used to get car sick, lots of short rides, with the windows down seemed to help. (I read somewhere about the windows, tried it, and for us it seemed to help...although maybe she was just getting more used to the car). Anyhow, I think calling the vet is a great idea. I drive an hour once a week for classes. Usually just about 2 hours for show n goes. One time I took a class with our golden locally, when we were getting ready for her CGC. The first night in that class I knew why I drove an hour to the classes we were already attending. Good luck with all of it!


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## rooroch (Nov 7, 2012)

I have a thunder shirt for Grit who is terrible in the car. It really works. Also he prefers the back seat rather than in the very back of the car. Windows open or lots of AC. Good luck you are doing a super job with your puppy. Love the photos with the parrots in your blog.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

FWIW, I generally travel at least an hour for classes and I am in an active area  There is one club with drop ins about 10 minutes a way on Saturdays that I can sometimes make.

To be honest, I have most switched to online classes (Fenzi, Agility-U, Say Yes) since I have multiple dogs and limited time (generally away from 7:30am to 7pm during the work week). When I can, I take agility classes midweek for the setups and because my instructor is excellent and I can take multiple dogs, but honestly I end up missing more classes than the ones I attend due to commuting woes.

I personally use obedience/rally classes more as a proofing type setting - to see how my dogs can work around other dogs and to get them used to the idea that other dogs being close to them are not their concern  Yes, the instructors can point out details and there are 2 classes I go to where the format is more one or two people working at a time with great instructor feedback, but I believe most classes still have the whole group working at once - good for proofing but less than ideal for individual feedback and if you are new to the competition training world, you need individual feedback from knowledgeable instructors. 

I will be heading out today (an hour each way) for a private session with an hour in agility and an hour in obedience with an agility judge and she was a highly successful obedience competitor -- and she is a great person to boot. 

Try to choose your classes carefully -

> Are you a positive reinforcement trainer?
> Are you a 'balanced' trainer who uses both rewards and punishment?
> Are you a compulsion based trainer?

How about your dog?
>How does he learn best?
>Does he cringe at loud noises, clanging chains, yelling?
>Does he blow off the softer approach with a 'You can't make me' attitude?

Sorry for all the questions, but over the years I have wasted a lot of time and money attending classes and such that did not suit me or my dogs -- take your time and go to the classes to observe:
> Are the people energetic and happy to be there?
> Are the dogs engaged with their owners and happy?
> Is the instructor helpful and kind?

Take your puppy many fun places in the car; windows down as mentioned, consider feeding small treats

I guess what I am trying to say is you really do not need classes. Generally you get a LOT more information and specific advice with either privates or online classes.

Also as mentioned, most of the people I know who do obedience/rally/agility/therapy work etc, do not do the whole puppy socialization thing with dogs they don't know; fights break out, pups can learn to be a bully or be intimidated, pups can learn seeing other dogs means playtime and loose focus on their person, dogs can get hurt -- there are all kinds of downsides with minimal upside if you know a few good dogs that your youngster can interact with.


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## jnjmc (Mar 31, 2015)

Charlie rides in the car almost every day whether it's to accompany me on errands to people places or to do something awesome with him. He even loves the vet (he always tries to get back in when we leave), so it's not like the car has ever resulted in a negative experience at the destination. I think he associates the car with vomiting so he gets really anxious, which is probably what makes him sick rather than the motion sickness at this point. He still throws up on 80% of car rides even when they're 10min long.  I am looking into the Family Dog Training Center which is 30min away without traffic. I just sent them an email so I'll update with what they say! I didn't realize it would be difficult to find the right training facility!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I will share something that I thought was absolutely crazy!

My Rowdy got horribly car sick. My trainer at the time got into the car with me for several sessions and promptly started feeding my Rowdy...some things that I would never ever feed my dogs including donuts! Yep Dublin Donut donuts! We stopped a few times at a well known hotdog stand and Michael went inside and asked for overcooked hotdogs. Yep, he fed those to my dog too.

All kinds of things but you know what was really crazy? It worked! This same dog was able to go for hours in the car! No drooling, no whimpering, no vomiting.


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## jnjmc (Mar 31, 2015)

Sunrise said:


> I will share something that I thought was absolutely crazy!
> 
> My Rowdy got horribly car sick. My trainer at the time got into the car with me for several sessions and promptly started feeding my Rowdy...some things that I would never ever feed my dogs including donuts! Yep Dublin Donut donuts! We stopped a few times at a well known hotdog stand and Michael went inside and asked for overcooked hotdogs. Yep, he fed those to my dog too.
> 
> All kinds of things but you know what was really crazy? It worked! This same dog was able to go for hours in the car! No drooling, no whimpering, no vomiting.


We've tried feeding roasted chicken, steak, etc. all sorts of super high value treats in the car. But half the time he doesn't even want to eat it even though he goes crazy for it when we are out of the car. I don't really believe in giving him junk food, but I'm going to try to continue giving him things he loves while we are riding in the car. The other day I held him and he finally put his head out the window like a real dog for the first time ever. He seemed to enjoy that, so maybe there is hope!


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