# training stay?



## acupofteha (Jun 28, 2010)

Hello, 

So I am working hard with Bailey, Shes now 99% reliable in sits, and is starting to come back when were doing recall on leash, and no longer pulling me over when walking. I have been working on and off on "stay". I am wondering how to teach the stay so that she gets the point of stay! 

Bailey is Extremely head strong, and will ignore commands, so I find myself going back and working on commands that shes already mastered, But I need her to know stay, as it seems that I am needing stay more then I even need sit. (because of my cat). 

Bailey also isn't a puppy shes around 2, I don't know if it makes a difference in the training aspect of stay.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

Best advice - start slow!!!!

Start with her sitting and then tell her 'stay' and step away, then back, release and praise. Then two steps, then around in front, then three steps... but keep it slow so she's not at all thinking to break. I release with a touch, so my guys know not to move when I return as well. 

Many people teach 'stay' by trying to build up the time and distance too fast, and their dogs start to break, and it takes a lot longer to get them solid because they don't learn not to move till you return. I should mention 'stay' is different than 'wait' where I will ask them to do something like a recall - I don't tell them 'stay' then ever ask them to move until I get back. 

Lana


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Bender said:


> Best advice - start slow!!!!
> 
> Start with her sitting and then tell her 'stay' and step away, then back, release and praise. Then two steps, then around in front, then three steps... but keep it slow so she's not at all thinking to break. I release with a touch, so my guys know not to move when I return as well.
> 
> ...


Absolutely second this. 

Only I'd start the stays at the dog's side (so you can immediately place the dog back into a sit or down if dog attempts to rise), and only progress to standing in front of the dog when the dog is reliably staying with you standing right next to them in 'heel position'. And you step away only when the dog is reliably staying with you in front. 

The proof for stay is pulling on the leash and repeating stay. A dog who knows stay will brace against the collar (flat collar, not a training collar) and hold the stay until you say the release word.

The release word can be anything. As long as it is the SAME thing every time you release a dog from an exercise.


ETA - The other thing I considered - if your dog is ignoring commands or breaking stays, it's because the groundwork isn't there, or you are expecting too much of your dog too soon. And once they ignore or break, then the damage is done and you have to go back to square one and reinforce the training. Most dogs need a couple months proofing on the stays before you introduce major distractions or expect them to do a minute stay. Especially if they are golden retrievers. 

I remember feeling rottenly envious of one dog in our class - a bernese mountain dog - who was doing show quality stays back in Obedience 2 class. As in, the dog was off leash and the owner was going to the opposite side of the room. This when everyone else was still on leash and staying within 2-3 feet of their dog. But that dog had no interest in anything or anyone else besides his owner, and that isn't the case with most young and hearty goldens. 

If you are teaching stays at home and only want to use them in around the house situations - you still want to do all of the groundwork in a quiet spot in the house where there are low to none distractions. Then you slowly introduce distractions as the dog gets stronger in understanding what "stay" means. 

Then you can introduce the stay in the household situation that you need it. Opening the front door in front of the dog and telling him to sit stay. Or telling him to stay until you pick up the cat or shoo him off to higher ground. Or if you are loading your dog into the car and need to clear stuff off the seat first before you let him into the car, you can put him into a stay and expect him to sit there next to you until you are ready to get him into the car. Same thing if you are ever in the situation where he's off leash and out of your reach and you both see a distraction (car, rabbit, kid, dog, etc). You can tell the dog to stay until you go out and retrieve him. You can also tell the dog to come, but I generally do not want my dog moving at all if a car is going past. There is too much chase instinct in him.

Anyway - until your dog is solid. Stay close and be patient.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Have you been in a good training class? Some of this stuff is easier to learn by seeing than reading. 

We start stays with the dog in front of you. Move your feet one inch to the side. Literally one inch. Look at a ruler. If your dog stays, feed her a treat. Feed it where her head is. during the stay. Move an inch another direction. Feed a treat. Repeat. WHen you are willing to bet $50 she will stay, go two inches. repeat a lot of times. WHen you're willing to bet $50, take a bigger step. In the first session (approx. 3 min or less) many students are able to do a short dance while their dogs stay. Sometimes I want to give out prizes for the best dancing.

It sounds like your dog just doesn't understand what you want. A training class could be a great way to improve communication.


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## Golden123 (Dec 6, 2009)

This is what our trainer taught us in puppy class. She said have the dog sit in front of you. Say "Stay" and put your palm out. If the dog stays sitting for a couple seconds praise and say good stay. After you do that a while, start putting the dog into a sit and saying stay with the hand signal and take a step back. Then use a release word mine is "Okay", and then she comes to me. It worked for us. I can put Sadie in a stay and back up around 30 or so feet and she will stay there.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

What RedDogs described is exactly what I did with Riley and it worked beautifully!
"Stay" was very difficult for him. He's such a velcro boy, and has such a strong desire to follow me, that I didn't think we'd ever get it. I had initially started by backing away from him and could never get more than four steps before he'd break.
I went back to square one and started taking one very small step to either side. I think the key, for him, was to praise and reward before he even _thought_ about breaking the stay. When I'd been backing away from him, he was ready to break his stay on my first step, so in his mind, that's what he was being rewarded for - breaking the stay. Once we started over and he understood that he was being rewarded for keeping his butt on the floor, it was a breeze.
We still took it very slow, though, so as not to give him more temptation than he could successfully handle.


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## 2DogsN3Cats (May 25, 2010)

Ive been working on the same thing for the same reasons with Max. What Ive been doing is just randomly throughout the day calling him over to me putting him in a sit and then tell him stay. I count in my head to 10 then a little while later do the same thing and count to 20..so on and so forth thru out the day till we reach 60 without him moving. I use Lets Go as my release word. Right now we are working on stay with me being away from him. He will sit and stay for almost a whole minute about 5 feet away from me while a cat is in the hallway. 

I know this isnt the technical right way to teach stay but my main reason for needing it is to keep him from chasing the cats. I always catch him before he goes after one because he gets into a "hunting" stance and starts staring down the hallway. It never fails to catch him because he does it EVERY time. Ive been using the stay command to keep him in the living room and not chasing the cats. 

Ive also been practicing leash walking down our hallway because its so narrow that he cant really manuever around me if I walk down the middle he has to stay next to me the whole time. We walk up and down the hallway and once we get to the end and he hasnt tried to barrel past me he gets a treat and tons of scritches and good boys for walking so good...He has even gotten better doing this outside, its not perfect but it works for him.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

I always taught "Stay" with my dog in heel position, then gave the verbal and hand cue, and stepped one step in front of the dog with my left leg (essentially blocking any forward movement) while I turned so I was directly in front of them - so close his nose is almost touching me. When "stay" was over, I'd step back to his side and release with touch and praise. Started with ten seconds, then worked up to 2 minutes with me directly in front. One important thing to remember when training "stay" is to always return to your dog before he breaks. It's easier to praise than to correct. So if you know your dog will break around the 40 second mark, get back to his side and praise at the 30 second mark while he's learning.

Once we get to 2 minutes of stay when I'm directly in front, then I start giving the verbal and hand cues and I walk straight away til the end of the leash (I always train with a leash - it's easier to correct) and then turn to face. Make sure you don't tug on the leash or you'll give conflicting commands. I found backing away from the dog usually caused a break. I might back away later once the Stay has been taught, but for teaching it's easier to walk straight away. I also make sure I always walk off with the left leg, so he doesn't think we're going to do heeling.

Once he can hold his stay at 2 minutes 6 ft away, I drop the leash and take big steps back until I'm about ten ft away, then we build up to 20, then 30 ft. Once he's at 2 minutes at 30 ft away, then it's time for distraction training. Squeaking a toy, throwing a ball, a _slight_ tug on the leash...anytime he breaks, it's a "no!" and walk right back to him and put him in sit position again.

Thanks to Bender, Ranger is now learning the difference between stay and wait. It's really helping his stays become rock solid because now he knows stay means "don't you move a single paw" even when he gets tested. Amazingly, Bender walking Storee around him didn't get him to move...but keys getting tossed in front of him made him break!!

I always taught that time was more important than distance. I'd rather get a 2 minute stay with me standing as close as possible, than a 30 second stay 20 ft away. Build up time first, than distance.

ETA: Forgot to mention that I'd return to his side directly while training, and then eventually return around him which is a little harder for the dogs since they sometimes turn to follow you. I found walking briskly behind tended to stop them from following, whereas trying to "creep" behind almost always made them break. I might "creep" around now if I'm testing him but I wouldn't when I'm first training. After a few weeks of stay training, I'd also walk in circles around my dog while making him hold his stay. I'd start at the end of the leash, then walk further and further inwards, doing about 5-6 circles until I was so close I was brushing his sides with my legs. I do this in sit, down and stand position.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Just adding a few of things we learned:

Started on the leash. 

Used the 'uh-uh' if she seemed like she was going to move. 

Used the term "good stay" to reinfore rather than repeating 'stay'. 

Went to her head to give the treat. 

Went to her to release her from the stay so she didn't anticipate the break and come to me.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I reinforce the stay command with good crate and door habits. Make her offer you a sit stay before you open the crate door, and make her hold it as you open the door. If she budges, you shut the door again. Be careful not to hit her; it takes good timing to prevent her from bashing herself into the door. Don't bother with a "no." Just make sure she doesn't get out the door unless she's offering the desired behavior first.

You can do the same thing while going outside. The idea is to build up a stay to the point where you're opening crate doors and house doors and your dog is sitting obediently, looking to you for a release word. Make the release word exciting and DON'T cue it in advance. Also, don't say it at the same time in each repetition. Say it right away sometimes, wait and look at your watch sometimes, and generally mix it up. You want the dog to release on the release word, not on the other things you do right before it.

Practice these skills in conjunction with a formal stay, not instead of it. You may want to use a different cue word (we say "wait") to distinguish between these temporary holds and the formal stays, but the "waits" help teach self control and focus on the handler, and if you use similar body language, the dog will typically generalize well. 

They also teach safe, appropriate companion dog habits. I also like these techniques because they use negative punishment (the technical term for shaping behavior by withholding a reward) followed by positive reinforcement. The combination creates very powerful, deeply ingrained habits without the need for punishing or correcting the dog with a negative stimulus like an "ah ah" or "no" or a leash pop.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Brian makes a very point that I think sometimes gets lost in all the practicing. Obedience should be a part of everyday life at home or where ever the dog goes. By incorporating little obedience lessons at the door or the crate, you reinforce the training many times during the day without the stress of a formal practice session.

I used uh-uh or ah-ah to keep Penny's attention on me, usually with a finger point, hand gesture. I never thought of it as negative but I can see how it is.


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