# Local Kennel Club Training...Is This How They All Are??



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

No, this is not the way a training class should go. Your GF had the right idea. My recommendation - DO NOT go back to this class. Check around and find another training place. This guy is only going to mess up your good dog. If you do go back, under no circumstances let the instructor take control of your dog, I can predict that being a horrible experience for him.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Not all training places are created equal... 

What you are describing here is the type of stuff I've witnessed at pet store type training (nightmare from my opinion compared to what I'm used to by way of space and experience level of people teaching the classes and other people taking the classes).

Now that said - you are taking a "boot camp" type class... and generally speaking the types of dogs who take these classes may be rescues or otherwise dogs who have never been in a class environment before and/or are poorly socialized, etc. It's a lot of crazy stuff to handle if you are not used to it or feel stressed over what you are experiencing with your dog.

Sometimes the instructors can come across as more abrasive simply because you are upset and frazzled to begin with. 6 dogs doesn't necessarily sound like a lot of dogs to me... but it does depend on how much space you have and how well behaved the dogs are. 

I'd have a talk with the training director if you can and really address the issues you are having with the class. 

And big thing that people need to keep in mind. You are taking the class... and it is your choice what all you do by way of exercises. I would honestly put on my mule-face if asked to do something I don't want to do. And I wouldn't do it. 

If you feel some discomfort at any point, you can go sit down and shift into audit mode. 

I skipped puppy class with my youngest (nonessential stuff) and got him right into the bootcamp classes. As I said above, lot of rescue dogs and dogs with some issues and needing "bubbles". Big floor but still could feel overwhelming if your dog is very excited and more focused on other dogs. My guy had the advantage of going to class every week with me and my other dog even before he was old enough to be enrolled in any classes. And he got to do a little open floor training before or after classes so as to really not be into the other dogs when we actually started taking group classes. But many of the dogs we took classes with did not have that same foundation - and it was all new stuff to them. 

For that matter the other location I train at does have a lot of space, but I still have heard people complaining about the puppy and beginner obedience classes not having enough space for dogs who need really sizable bubbles. 

If you stick with it (meaning that if you go back and things are better or you reach an understanding with the instructor as far as what you're going to put up with or not) - in a few weeks you probably will have a much better experience. In theory.


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## KellySue301 (Aug 8, 2014)

Thank you, to both of you, for the feedback. I am seriously contemplating not returning - I am getting anxiety just thinking about having to go back (and I'm not usually like that!). I just can't believe how traumatizing it was and I can only imagine how poor Ryder felt. I could see it in his face, he was just beside himself. Yes, it does remind me of how it would be in PetSmart or Petco, which is why I looked into this place! I would hate to waste our money, but I suppose it was good we were able to attend the puppy kindergarten. I know my GF would be ecstatic to hear me say I didn't want to return, LOL.

No, 6 dogs isn't too bad. I really don't think he'd be trying to get to the other people/dogs as much if we didn't all sit so close (about a foot apart). It is a large building, but at the opposite end there is another class being taught for dogs with behavioral issues..it was lovely watching/listening to a GSD trying to maul everyone that walked near him the whole time (not!). Also, side note, when this GSD would lunge and bark, their instructor sprayed him with a water bottle right in the face. I found this slightly, I don't know, off-putting I guess you could say? Is this a normal technique for such an issue? I'm trying to gauge if any of these people really know what they are talking about...


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

OK.... if it's not worth it to you to return, don't go. I'm just saying it is possible to get around many of the issues you had. It's really tough for classes to be perfect when you have young dogs who haven't been in class a ton in their young life. And 8 month old goldens are right at that stage where they are noticing EVERYTHING Else except their owners. It's a tough time to start out in classes. Not impossible though... you can definitely make the classes work with tweaking and direct working with the instructors. 

They should really be telling people to space out more while moving - simply because of the focus issues of a young dog. Big bubbles needed.

If you go back - don't sit with the other people. Take your chair and move it elsewhere. Bertie - whenever we had downtime, would go into his crate which I brought to class with me. Basically was awesome because I didn't have to deal with him learning to sniff the floor and gi-joe crawl to the other dogs next to us. 

With Jacks who wasn't crate trained early - until he was well over 2 years old, I routinely just grabbed a chair and took it way out on the other side of the room from everyone else. 

*** Water bottle squirting actually works for barking.... probably nicer than pumping lemon juice into the dog's mouth - which is what everyone did before....


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## Chritty (Aug 17, 2014)

Our obedience instructor keeps her class numbers low, spaces everyone out, puts visual barricades up for anxious or over excited dogs, etc. 

I wouldn't go back


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## Aleksandrina (May 27, 2014)

This sounds absolutely ridiculous to me... I agree with Chritty and I wouldn't go back if I were you.

You pay these instructors to help you out when it comes to training your dog, not to pick on you and make you feel like you're failing. 

We absolutely love the trainer whom we've been taking Theo to. And I'd say that we find her methods quite successful.


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## Anon-2130948gsoni (Apr 12, 2014)

It's supposed to be fun for you and your dog. This guy sounds like a bozo and I wonder how much experience he's really had, because the good trainers understand that every dog is different and that the first class with young, excitable dogs usually isn't going to be a symposium of calm.

Keep looking...it's worth it. I drive two hours one way to our classes because they know what they're doing and they let me determine what's right for my dogs.


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## Chritty (Aug 17, 2014)

Noreaster said:


> the good trainers understand that... the first class with young, excitable dogs usually isn't going to be a symposium of calm.



^^THIS^^

A lot of trainers have a "dog-free" first session too. This helps get all the owners into a realistic mindset.


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## KellySue301 (Aug 8, 2014)

Wow thanks to all for the responses! Sorry it took so long to get back, life just never seems to slow down lately! :bowl:

I am really thinking to just try and find a different place to bring him for classes. I'm sure it would be able to maybe work with this place eventually, but puppy classes with these people was terrible as well. I was hoping things would get better in Basic Obedience with a different trainer, but maybe it is just the mindset of the club as a whole with the way they train..there is a place closer to us I was thinking of looking into, but I'm feeling a bit apprehensive now about trusting any potential trainers! I don't want to pay for the classes and then not like how they do things. We will see!

If anyone in or around Berks County, PA knows of any good trainers/group training places, please let me know as we are actively looking!:wavey:

Chritty - We did have a first class of no dogs (called "orientation"), and in all there were about 50 people there. All that was really said were things like where to park and who your instructor would be, little things like that.


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## Aleksandrina (May 27, 2014)

I'm not sure if one of these places are near you, but if so, you could give them a try: 

Training - Peacock Bridge Boarding and Dog Training

http://www.godfreysdogdom.com/

Also, I'd ask to attend a complimentary class before signing up for a package. 

We're crazy people who drive for over an hour to get Theo to puppy classes.


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## KellySue301 (Aug 8, 2014)

Thank you very much for the suggestions! We were looking into this place as it is only 10 minutes from us: Awesome Dawgs & The DAWG Store – GROUP CLASSES
Does it seem decent? Good idea to ask to watch a session before paying! I don't think I could handle driving an hour to and from class!! Wayy too much driving for me, lol.


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## Aleksandrina (May 27, 2014)

It looks nice. You should check it out. 

I like this: "*All puppies receive one hour of free play time in our Dawg Park every week they are enrolled in Puppy Class."*


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

I would never go back. You could ask a new place if you can observe a class first. That should give you an idea of their method and personality before you pay anything.


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## quilter (Sep 12, 2011)

I'll reiterate what another poster said. Do not go back. If you do, do not let the instructors take the leash. 

If your dog is OK in the car, it's worth the hour drive to find an excellent class. A bad class can hurt your dog and your relationship with your dog. Then you'll spend even more time trying to fix it.


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## KellySue301 (Aug 8, 2014)

Thanks! Yeah, we definitely aren't going back. The one instructor did take his leash once, but luckily it was only for about 30 seconds and he only had him sit (which he already knows how to do perfectly...)

I do think we will be looking into this place called Awesome Dawgs, and their classes start at the end of February. Of course they require Bordetella and that is the one vaccine Ryder doesn't have! :doh: So I guess we will have to make an appt for that before classes start. I also like that they allow free puppy time! Too bad Ryder is too old and will have to go into Level 1 training.  

The class I originally made this thread about disagreed with allowing puppies free time to be together and would not allow our pups to interact when we had puppy class a few months ago, which really rubbed me the wrong way. How is he supposed to get socialization with other dogs at a young age if they will not allow them to even sniff each other?? I let Ryder and another GR pup play for 5 minutes and they yelled at us to separate them!! Should have known then to just forget about this place! :yuck:

One thing I don't really like about this new possible place is that there is a dog park and they require the dogs over 6 months to be fixed. I wasn't going to fix Ryder until about 2 years of age (personal choice after doing some research). Is this normal for them to require this? I suppose they have to cover all bases on their end as to avoid any possible issues, but I was looking forward to using the facility to get him some socialization as we don't know anyone in our area that we could meet with that has a dog. Ah well.


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## Chritty (Aug 17, 2014)

Socialization doesn't have to mean play or direct interaction though so I wouldn't be too hard on them in that respect. 

Socialization for dogs can be just exposure. In classes it can be dangerous to have dogs that have never seen each other play together. What they can learn just by being repeatedly exposed to each other is body language and signals. And there's nothing to stop puppy owners from organizing their own meet ups between each other where the risk is there own.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> The class I originally made this thread about disagreed with allowing puppies free time to be together and would not allow our pups to interact when we had puppy class a few months ago, which really rubbed me the wrong way. How is he supposed to get socialization with other dogs at a young age if they will not allow them to even sniff each other?? I let Ryder and another GR pup play for 5 minutes and they yelled at us to separate them!! Should have known then to just forget about this place


 No more comments from me on this thread (LOL) but just wanted to say here that "playtime" at training locations is counter-productive to training. Particularly if you don't want your dogs to exhibit behavior as described earlier in this thread (lunging at and trying to jump on other dogs or people). That is why it is discouraged. 

I skipped puppy class with Bertie because there is a lot of baloney stuff about socialization = puppy play. When you have an intact male dog, you absolutely want them to be able to completely ignore all other dogs when working. So by the time a dog is your dog's age, I'd expect to be able to work off leash with this dog during a group class and not have that dog be distracted by other dogs around us. You can't get to that point if you confuse the message and have that dog visiting with and playing with other dogs in a class situation. He also like I said earlier (I think?) went into his crate during downtime at class so I did not have to deal with him trying to play with other dogs or learning non-focused behaviors.

With Jacks in puppy class there were some people who turned their dogs loose on the training floor before or after class - to my horror (lol). I picked Jacks up and held him in my lap during this time to keep him out of the reach of the loose dogs. I also made note of when people were going to turn their dogs loose and went outside to potty Jacks during that time until they were done. It's just bad stuff when you are there to train your dogs only.

I've pretty much seen a lot of the "other side" and have been around a lot of different training clubs. I do see people's expectations coloring their impressions... so it is difficult to tell whether this club is that bad or it's just how things happened made it feel worse than it actually was.

And I'm saying that because where I train my dogs (again) - I've seen people storming off from the training floor mid-class and never returning through the rest of a session because they took something the wrong way. A good example was somebody with an out of control Australian shepherd decided to enter her dog for a CGC test. The instructor quietly told the woman that her dog was not ready - this was separate from everyone else and basically nobody would have heard or noticed if the woman had not reacted the way she had. The woman made a huge scene middle of the class and embarrassed herself. And I can only imagine she went off and posted rants about the training location and the instructor who behaved in a very conscientious and respectful way from other's perspectives, but according to this woman was rude and disrespectful. Which point of view she loudly expressed in the class with everyone listening to her in shock at _her_ behavior. 

As I said - I'm shutting up now... but had to really remind people to give a lot of thought to what they expect out of dog training and obedience classes. It's normal to feel embarrassed and discouraged when the dogs don't do well... I do think it is helpful to re-access how you handle the situation next time as opposed to switching somewhere else that might be really subpar by way of what is taught and how it's taught.


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

Free puppy play is risky. It didn't work well for Pearl. There were some bigger wild labs and they wouldn't leave her alone. We quit going after that. It is working well with Betty, she is very reserved and none of the other pups are rude to her. So we just go and meet the people and she stays out of the fray. We don't do formal/competitive training, but we do camp a LOT with many other dogs off leash. So I want to give her some exposure with a goal of not being afraid/defensive/reactive and know how to be polite. She will still be pretty young when we start camping and I think this will be helpful for her. If she was bowling around wildly with other pups we'd quit going. We also visit other friends adult dogs, as I think that is actually the most important for learning proper dog interaction.


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## KellySue301 (Aug 8, 2014)

Megora - LOL I don't mind you posting, it definitely helps to get advice from people who know what they are talking about! I would like to try and stick it out like we did for puppy class, but I just really don't like our instructors. Like previous posters said, this should be fun for us but it is more stressful than anything. Perhaps if we were more spaced out it would be better and Ryder wouldn't be constantly trying to interact with the people and dogs right next to us, but there just isn't enough room. IMO the people at this club have been rude and disrespectful since day 1 way back in puppy class days, and I would really like to see how a different facility does things. Maybe it is me and I just need to be coddled LOL but I don't respond well to techniques where people are abrasive, I prefer to be encouraged and not feel ostracized. I don't think Ryder is that bad of a dog, just needs some brushing up on normal GR issues like jumping and being overly excited. These people claim to have 45+ years experience between them (the woman with Labs, the man with Weimaraners) and they so far have been pretty unprofessional (IMO). The woman with the other GR pup in our puppy class never came back after the first class, perhaps I should have followed her lead!  I don't mind being told that what I'm doing is wrong or I need to work on certain things I am doing with Ryder (that is the point of going!), but if they were professional like the instructor was with the Aussie woman, took me to the side to give feedback on what to do instead of calling us out in the middle of class, I would not have such opinions that I do. She seemed to have been very defensive and not take well to criticism! LOL not sure I would like having all dogs let loose at the end of class either, but I would have liked to see actual interaction with other puppies during his puppy class days in order to catch problem behaviors while at class that the instructor saw that I would have otherwise ignored.


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## golfgal (Dec 31, 2013)

Good that you're looking for something different. I don't think puppies need an hour of puppy play for socialization. One class we took had 10 minutes of play time when class started. 8 dogs max in class, (12wks-5mths), some on leash and some off leash. Then it was training and we worked on the behaviors you're starting on in Level 1. When I took Murphy in for that class, they had eliminated the off-leash time even thought at most it was for 5 minutes when class started. 

You and your dog should have fun. Most classes here cost a lot more than the new place you are looking at. I would have (would be) happy for one for $150. 

Although in one advanced class, all the rest of the dogs were 2yrs plus and first two classes were on recall which the other dogs had not learned yet. I wanted longer distance recall with my 7mth old. Small class so we were given more personalized training as teaching 'sitting pretty or 'high five' were not my priorities. Check the class and instructors out to your satisfaction as it has to be a good fit for all.


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## bethlehemgolden (Aug 2, 2014)

What I am planning on doing is before any classes, I will take my puppy for a walk. to get out any extra energy so he is more focused. But it is just a plan. 

You puppy is pretty, where did you get him from?


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