# Breeding a golden with limited registration



## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

*Limited registration for your dog means none of her off spring can be registered.* I doubt that any owner of a male that wishes to further quality goldens with ALL clearances will want to breed with your female since the puppies can not be registered. If you find a male where the owner does not care do you really want a breeding with that male that more than likely does not have the correct clearances or the owner is not wanting further quality goldens?


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

You don't. No reputable breeder is going to breed to a bitch on Limited. 

If you really feel you want to breed her, you should contact the breeder to ask about getting the Limited changed to Full. If the breeder is willing, and is a good breeder, he or she is probably going to want to evaluate your girl or ask you to get a CCA on her and to get all of her clearances, at a minimum.

If the breeder says no, you are not going to be able to breed her well, so that begs the question, why do you want to breed her?


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Tahnee GR said:


> You don't. No reputable breeder is going to breed to a bitch on Limited.
> 
> If you really feel you want to breed her, you should contact the breeder to ask about getting the Limited changed to Full. If the breeder is willing, and is a good breeder, he or she is probably going to want to evaluate your girl or ask you to get a CCA on her and to get all of her clearances, at a minimum.
> 
> If the breeder says no, you are not going to be able to breed her well, so that begs the question, why do you want to breed her?


That exactly. If you can't do a good job of the breeding, why bother putting less than 'best you can get' puppies out there...


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

When you bought your pup on limited registration, you signed a contract with the breeder, agreeing not to breed her. What has made you change your mind? If you have shown her, and/or titled her in some dog sports and feel she is a good quality Golden who meets breed standard, maybe your breeder would agree to change the registration. Otherwise, you'd be breaking a contract if you just bred her.


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## Susan Schmidt (Jun 19, 2016)

Thanks for all of the info. As you can see, I am new to all of this. The breeder said I could breed her if I wanted but the puppies could only be registered CKC. I just would like for her to have at least one litter. I would get all of her tests done and would want the same for the male. Isn't CKC ok as long as the person just wants their dog as a pet? Would I not be able to find a person with a male in the same situation that maybe wants one of his pups?


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

In my opinion, registering with the Continental Kennel Club is the same as not registering at all. 

Why not start with doing her clearances (once she is 2 years old). If she passes all, consider getting a CCA done and make sure she at least meets the breed standard. (You can also do the CCA before the tests are complete, as long as she is 18 months old). 

I still can't get by the breaking a contract, though. Even though you told your breeder you want to breed her. Right now, your contract says you agreed not to.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I want to add how many times things go wrong some time during the process of breeding, pregnancy, and whelping. You need to budget for a c section or even worse to save the life of mama and babies if everything doesn't go right, and you can still lose them. Sometimes yes everything goes fine, but you put your girl in a situation with medical wildcards that can be very expensive. You need a vet who is breeder friendly. I do agree with everyone else that if you want to breed , it should be a side effect of competing in a venue you love with a dog who excels and peers who teach you mentors who help you. Bringing new life into the world is a huge responsibility, especially in a breed that can have big problems even when carefully planned.


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## Ksdenton (Mar 17, 2013)

If you're doing all the right things you'll be in contact with all the right people around you with good stud dogs. If you're looking to be a backyard breeder and just get a litter of puppies you're not doing what's best for your dog or the breed. There are too many of those people out there putting puppies into the world to end up homeless and unwanted. IMO
There is no good reason for your girl to "just have a litter". You even said you want her to have "at least" one litter. If you want to become a breeder you need to follow everyone's advice they've given you.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Susan Schmidt said:


> Thanks for all of the info. As you can see, I am new to all of this. The breeder said I could breed her if I wanted but the puppies could only be registered CKC. I just would like for her to have at least one litter. I would get all of her tests done and would want the same for the male. Isn't CKC ok as long as the person just wants their dog as a pet? Would I not be able to find a person with a male in the same situation that maybe wants one of his pups?


Susan,

Start off from a good place before everything else. Don't put the wagon in front of the horse.

If you have a nice dog who has all her clearances and is ideal for the breed (not completely a "pet dog" in every way and to be discouraged from being bred), you can go back to the breeder and ask her to help you. The breeder has the ability to switch the registration to full - I'm not sure about the mechanics, but this had been explained to me when somebody came to me and was urging me to show my dog and she, as well as others, were very interested in using this dog. When I explained he was limited reg - they told me to go back to the breeder. As they expressed interest in using him down the road, I of course explained that he failed hips. So there was absolutely no reason to switch registration or go that way. 

Other thing that goes through my head is that OF COURSE as pet owner first, I really want to see people only breeding dogs if they want to keep a puppy from the litter. This ensures that they are not just breeding their dogs to anything that has the right registration (purebred golden retriever, full registration). When people breed for themselves first - and they have goals that go well beyond adding a puppy the hard and expensive way - they shoot for the moon. It's getting as nice a stud dog for their bitch as possible. If looks are not exactly what they are breeding for, they still are breeding for something. A lot of people I know breed pretty funny looking goldens - but the pedigrees from a field or obedience outlook are solid gold. They are producing brilliant athletes with their prospective litters. 

More importantly, if somebody is involved with sports or conformation - they are going to be really taking clearances seriously. There is a lot of money that goes into a dog while training or showing that dog. For conformation - it's thousands of dollars spent showing that dog. For obedience it is at the very least hundreds of dollars if you account for the cost of training and the cost of trialing - even if you are only going for the simplest title and bopping out after that is accomplished. You are still spending a good deal of money along the way prepping that dog. There is a huge amount of disappointment and pain when that dog after all that can't even title because of a disability related to poor joints or poor temperament. 

Temperament I mention because I know of somebody who has two marks against her dog because the judge felt intimidated while approaching her dog for the stand for exam in the ring. The dog did nothing aggressive. But just the way she stood and slightly leaned made the judge feel like she was threatening him if he touched her. He had to excuse her - which puts a mark against the dog. Only three marks and that dog may not compete ever again in any AKC events. 

Same thing for fear or anxiety. Holy crud - these two temperament flaws can destroy a good dog.

The same is true for conformation. But conformation is a special little class of its own where you may have perfectly nice dogs but who will not win in the ring very easily because the types of faults they have make it very difficult for them to beat other dogs. Which is a reason why a breeder who is looking at puppies will completely rule out certain puppies on the basis that they are "pet puppy" not show quality. Even when they come from a show litter. A lot of puppies will not be looked at if they aren't ideal structurally. That's back when they are puppies when most pet people only see cute and pretty little fuzzy things. 

So anyone who is participating and competing in AKC events - they fully understand why it is so important to breed for the best attributes. Because to not be able to show a dog who is otherwise brilliant - because of something wrong with him, you really understand the importance of getting full clearances and really judging and picking out what you breed to with health and soundness, as well as breed standard in mind.

But back to the point - if you want to breed your dog and the breeder had obligingly switched the registration for you... make sure all clearances are there and you are selecting a stud dog who has all the same clearances. Don't just breed garbage to garbage to get a puppy. Because among else, even if you are happy with your puppy - there's a chance that will come back to hurt you. You are whether you like it or not going to be held responsible for your puppies even after you place them. And that's in addition to any possible harm that breeding your dog may cause her. 

All that said - random other thought.... most breeders I know of get really tense and kinda manic about any puppy they sell on limited registration being bred by the puppy people. The whole point of selling a puppy on limited registration is to keep them from being bred. It's meant to protect the puppies. It's a deterrent. 

For somebody to tell a puppy person to breed anyway and use a bogus puppy mill registry to sell the puppies... that's a red flag about that breeder.


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## GoldenFocus (Feb 28, 2016)

I personally would be concerned about finding good homes for the litter. Getting stud dog of high quality is not difficult.....but since the pups have registration constraints that narrows the pool of potential owners by quite a bit. I had a dog that had pups once but I worked for Mega Consumer Products Corporation and had access to thousands of people via internal posting. I was able to sell 12 puppies to people I personally knew and worked with in one day. Were the best dogs and made a lot of people and kids happy.....dog snobs not included.

IMHO if you don't have a pool of potential owners lined up then I would pass on breeding. My fear is placing the pups in super good homes.....that is what I worry about.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

A CCA event is a good idea, once she is 18 months (and not a day before) old... clearances at 2 YO. The Atlanta club has a CCA at least yearly. They fill quickly and are usually held in conjunction with the spring specialty (March). So start looking in December 2017 (assuming she is a wee puppy right now) on the GRCA calendar of events, and send in your entry asap when you see it posted.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Susan 

You need to be able to answer these questions.

1. Are your dog's parents AKC registered?
2. Can your girl get the necessary health clearances?
3. Do you have a copy of your purchase agreement?


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## Susan Schmidt (Jun 19, 2016)

Thank you all. Looks like I will forego the breeding.


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## Susan Schmidt (Jun 19, 2016)

If someone wants to get into breeding, do some breeders sell puppies with full breeding rights?


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I am not a regular breeder but I did one breeding. I gave limited registration to four people with the proviso that if they get the health clearances I would give them full registration. Three puppy owners have full registration, me being one of them. I know the other two and understand their goals so I felt full registration was the right thing to do.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Susan Schmidt said:


> If someone wants to get into breeding, do some breeders sell puppies with full breeding rights?


yes. You usually work with the breeder for who to match up since the breeder will know his/her lines.

Or you have a girl on a Co-ownership where the breeder has breeding rights.

But breeding can be a heart breaking thing. Puppies die, your girl might die, there are really nasty viruses, some potential owners can be problematic, contracts can be problematic etc.

Is it oftentimes worth the heartache? Yes. But there should be an excellent reason for each and every pup brought into this world. Breeders need to lend support for raising the pups and share the heartbreak when things go horribly, horribly wrong.

Consider very carefully why you want to breed. BTW, while I do not consider myself a breeder I do Co-own a girl with a master breeder. My girl missed 2 pregnancies, lost a pregnancy and had 4 litters. One puppy died at 2 days old as there was nothing we did that could save her. Another puppy died a horrible, heart breaking death at about 2.5 years - the owner did everything in her power but this beautiful puppy's shining light died. 

And this is with a girlie who has so much to offer this world with her pedigree, her love of people & working ad well as her athleticism and structure.


I brought her into my home knowing she would (God willing) have 1-2 litters, but the demand for her puppies is so great that she had more litters.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Susan Schmidt said:


> If someone wants to get into breeding, do some breeders sell puppies with full breeding rights?



The best route into breeding is to take your girl and do some competition with her, putting a CD on her, then try out agility and field... and meet people along the way, pay attention to structure as you watch others compete in performance events- and go watch conformation. Do get the CCA when she's old enough. And learn, learn, learn all you can. Remember when you see a dog lift his lip to another at a show- and write his pedigree down for reference. Remember when you notice missing teeth in a dog. Write that down. Learn all you can. 
Join GRCA. Join the Atlanta club. Volunteer at events, learn how to keep the book in a rally trial, learn to steward. And along the way, you will develop your eye, and make connections for when you are ready to buy a bitch to breed-


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Breeding for breeding's sake is not easy to do well. It should follow the hobby of competing and learning about Goldens.
Too many people start breeding before anything else. They are destined to fail at anything besides making more pet puppies that may or may not be correct.


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## goldy1 (Aug 5, 2012)

Prism Goldens said:


> The best route into breeding is to take your girl and do some competition with her, putting a CD on her, then try out agility and field... and meet people along the way, pay attention to structure as you watch others compete in performance events- and go watch conformation. Do get the CCA when she's old enough. And learn, learn, learn all you can. Remember when you see a dog lift his lip to another at a show- and write his pedigree down for reference. Remember when you notice missing teeth in a dog. Write that down. Learn all you can.
> Join GRCA. Join the Atlanta club. Volunteer at events, learn how to keep the book in a rally trial, learn to steward. And along the way, you will develop your eye, and make connections for when you are ready to buy a bitch to breed-


Prism Goldens gives excellent advice. Another way in would be to co-own with an experienced breeder. You can learn a lot this way and have a support system.


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