# Show Pup Questions



## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

I am guessing this dog is really not show quality, some defect or other, maybe too big or too small to show but has good pedigree. At one year she is too young to have done most clearances. She wants a breeding most likely means she wants you to take her to her to breed and she will keep all the puppies. Some breeder tried to get me to do this when I did not know what I was doing. She even wanted me to pay for the dog but not be the owner, although I would get to "have" her at my home. Unless you really know this breeder I would say no.


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## Goldilocks (Jun 3, 2007)

Some breeders place their dogs in "foster homes" and have them return to them for a few weeks to whelp a litter. The dog would live with you like a normal pet but would go back to the breeders close to the time the puppies were due and stay at the breeder's until the pups are weaned. This may be what this breeder was talking about. Once the breeder is done using the dog for breeding, she is spayed and lives out her life with you as a normal pet and ownership is transferred to you. If she said she "wants a litter out of her" she meant that she wants to breed her. 

How this all plays out will depend on the contract you sign.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

I would think that a reputable breeder and show person would not sell a pup to someone if they did not think it was show quality. I have talked to many breeders and they say that they would not sell a show puppy to someone, unless it is something they would keep for themselves. I do not think that is it.

But, I probably would not do anyways, I was just wondering what reasons would be?


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

kfayard said:


> Okay....So, I have been on a hunt for a show pup for about 4 months now. Looking at Pedigrees and looks that I like. One breeder emailed me about a little over a year old female that she wants to see go to a nice show home. I love the pedigree, but can anyone answer, what would be the reason of trying to find another home for her after living with them for over a year? She also says she wants a litter out of her? Does that mean she just wants the registered name of her kennel to be in the pedigree? Or does she want the money out of all the pups? I did email the breeder about these questions, but trying to see if anyone has any insight into this.


I don't know the reason for placement, I'd ask and see what is the answer. I would wonder if she doesn't have time to show her or has more promising dogs that she's focusing on. Id want to know if she has had prelims yet? Has she shown much to date? If so, how did she do?

I have heard of some breeders that require a pick puppy back from the 1st breeding. I would assume with that comment that she wants all money from the sales of the puppies from her first litter. I'm not sure that I could or would agree to such an arrangement. Whelping and raising a litter is very hard work, time consuming, and expensive.


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

kfayard said:


> I would think that a reputable breeder and show person would not sell a pup to someone if they did not think it was show quality. I have talked to many breeders and they say that they would not sell a show puppy to someone, unless it is something they would keep for themselves. I do not think that is it.
> 
> But, I probably would not do anyways, I was just wondering what reasons would be?



I do know that my breeder would not sell a "show quality" puppy to anyone planning on showing unless it was a very competitive dog. That dog in the ring represents their kennel name! That's my breeder but I'm sure not all are like that.

Why not get someone who is very involved in the golden show world & get them to do an evaluation on the bitch.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

CarolinaCasey said:


> I don't know the reason for placement, I'd ask and see what is the answer. I would wonder if she doesn't have time to show her or has more promising dogs that she's focusing on. Id want to know if she has had prelims yet? Has she shown much to date? If so, how did she do?
> 
> I have heard of some breeders that require a pick puppy back from the 1st breeding. I would assume with that comment that she wants all money from the sales of the puppies from her first litter. I'm not sure that I could or would agree to such an arrangement. Whelping and raising a litter is very hard work, time consuming, and expensive.


That is what I am trying to find out! If I am the one investing all my money into showing her and achieving her championship...I do not want her to have all the money from the pups!! Heck NO! THat just does not sound right? Who in their right mind would agree to that?...Not me! I am in no RUSH for the right pup!


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Gwen said:


> I do know that my breeder would not sell a "show quality" puppy to anyone planning on showing unless it was a very competitive dog. That dog in the ring represents their kennel name! That's my breeder but I'm sure not all are like that.
> 
> Why not get someone who is very involved in the golden show world & get them to do an evaluation on the bitch.


That is what I would think too! I am awaiting her reply. I know the pic on k9 data is from months ago! I told her I wanted an updated picture of her. I have not gotten that far because I will probably not purchase the pup. I was just trying to find reasons why? If any breeders on here have done this before.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

If the breeder does other things besides conformation, it may be this pup doesn't measure up, isn't as fast or have as much drive as the breeder would like personally. Or they may have conflicts within their dogs too.

But many do the 'foster' thing so they can breed more litters but not have so many mouths to feed, and if the dog isn't doing anything other than popping out puppies then look elsewhere.

What you'd have to find out is what the breeder intends to do and how. Are you going to pay for clearances, stud fee, whelping the litter and finding homes? Or part of that? Or will the breeder do all of that? When? Are you ok with having your dog 'gone' for months and dealing with an intact female? 

Storee will be used by the breeder, but everything is agreed on before hand an I'm comfortable with the situation and how things will go - and I would be able to go there anytime to visit or check up on things. Mind you we 'swap' dogs often, I take her pups here and there and if I need dog care that's where my guys go.


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

You might contact your local GR club and join it. Usually there are many members who show dogs and could mentor you, and help you pick a dog. We have a couple of very helpful people who do that, mentor folks who want to show.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Ian'sgran said:


> You might contact your local GR club and join it. Usually there are many members who show dogs and could mentor you, and help you pick a dog. We have a couple of very helpful people who do that, mentor folks who want to show.


I have mentors already. I do not have a so called "local GR club." The closest one to me is Atlanta or Houston and they are both 7 hours away. I am going to join the atlanta one though. Finding breeders who would be willing to give me a pup has not been my problem. I have had a few litters that I am interested in, but this one just came up and I was wondering about it.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I would think maybe the breeder kept the girl as a show prospect but either doesn't have the time/money to show her. Or maybe she has another bitch with the same or similar pedigree and likes the other bitch just a bit better. I wouldn't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but I don't like the idea of you spending the time and money to whelp a litter and then handing over the proceeds to her just because she wants it. If she wants a litter out of her then she should keep her, IMO. The worst contract I've heard of yet is a breeder that got 1st and third pick out of all the bitch's litters....that seems a bit excessive to me when the breeder isn't paying for finishing the dog. But getting a whole litter is extremely excessive, I would never agree to that.

ETA: I know of a breeder out here that is breeding two of her girls in the next year to boys from the lines that I know you are looking at. PM me if you want their info.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Honestly I don't know what to think. I think it is great that you are sticking to your standards in looking for this pup.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

it may also be that the breeder held back two pups and then chose the one she wanted after they matured. Thus is now looking to place the other, it could be that they are both show quality and could finish but one is slightly better than the other or has more drive than the other. It doesn't mean that the other is not show quality. I place pups in show homes... I keep the best pup and send the others that are show quality to show homes... In this case the differences between the two could be so slight that she opted to hold them both back until she decided who to keep herself.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I once was excited about a situation like this, but it turned out the pup was missing 4 teeth. The dog world demands so much caution when it comes to show puppies.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Okay, so this is the email I received from her. Trust me...I emailed back tons of questions!!

"Hi Kelli!
Congrats on your girl! That is great! She looks nice in her pictures.
I will have to get an updated picture. The k9data picture is from when is was 5 months old. She is now 15 months old. I have shown her a few times as a puppy. She is real cute. But I really haven't shown her that much because I have others that I am showing and have taken priority over her. She just blow all her puppy coat and she is not showable right now. She has no furnishings or tail. She will look great when she comes back in coat. 
I really don't want her to go anywhere, but I have too many dogs right now. I am also very busy with two young human children right now. But I will keep her unless I find the right home for her. I really do like her and she is a ****** (my foundation bitch) granddaughter. ****** has been an incredible producer for me. And I don't want to lose that link to the past."

I blurred out her foundation bitch because i did not want to give it away of who the breeder is.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Good point, Ljilly28!!!


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Ljilly28 said:


> I once was excited about a situation like this, but it turned out the pup was missing 4 teeth. The dog world demands so much caution when it comes to show puppies.


That would be my luck! ha! But, I would never buy (especially an older pup) without seeing her in person.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Did the breeder explain what kind of arrangement she wanted if you took the pup and she was going to get a litter out of her? Who would pay for expenses? Choose stud dog, etc? 

Whatever you do though, make sure you get it in writing!


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

GoldenSail said:


> Did the breeder explain what kind of arrangement she wanted if you took the pup and she was going to get a litter out of her? Who would pay for expenses? Choose stud dog, etc?
> 
> Whatever you do though, make sure you get it in writing!


I emailed her with all those questions, just awaiting her response.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Curious for the response. I hope that you find your next show puppy.  Remi needs a friend!!


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Hey...she has not responded back yet! Probably at shows...so hope to hear from her Monday.


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## brookshiregr (Feb 19, 2009)

If I found out someone I was talking to about buying one of my puppies posted/forwarded a personal email that I had written them, like you have done here, the deal would be dead right then and there. Reprinting a private email without permission is such a violation of trust. It's not that I have anything to hide,
it's that as a breeder I have to decide if a potential puppy buyer is one I can trust and work with. This would be a definite deal breaker. Then again maybe you got the breeder's permission and all is well.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

I did not realize that it was a bad thing to do. My apologies! I purposely deleted all personal info on purpose because I do realize this is a public forum. All I wanted was others opinion on what reasons could be of getting rid of an older bitch...in general. I will go back and delete the email, even though it had nothing bad in it. Thanks for the heads up.


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## brookshiregr (Feb 19, 2009)

The only person who could tell you why she was placing her older bitch is the person who is placing her. All the rest of us could do is speculate. Is that fair? Isn't first hand info from the breeder better then guesses from people that don't know the situation? Even so all that didn't bother me until I saw the breeder's email forwarded to this forum. Delete all the info you want it is still a huge breach of privacy and trust, at least in my eyes.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

I completely understand where u are coming from. I know that the only answer has to cone from the breeder not the forum. I was just wondering if any breeders have had to do this and why. Without personally knowing the breeder, i as a potential buyer want to make an informed decision. That is why I posted the question. Just asking a question. I should have not posted the email and i realize that now. Now i know for the future. thanks For the pointing out that because i honestly, at the time, did not realize the wrong in it. Thanks


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## eeneymeanymineymo (Oct 5, 2009)

kfayard said:


> I did not realize that it was a bad thing to do. My apologies! I purposely deleted all personal info on purpose because I do realize this is a public forum. All I wanted was others opinion on what reasons could be of getting rid of an older bitch...in general. I will go back and delete the email, even though it had nothing bad in it. Thanks for the heads up.


So why haven't you deleted the email yet?


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

eeneymeanymineymo said:


> So why haven't you deleted the email yet?


The edit button is gone, which is why she can't likely go back to delete it. It has been over 3 days since that post.


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## eeneymeanymineymo (Oct 5, 2009)

oh, I thought the original poster could only see the 'edit' button......didn't realize it disappeared after only a few days.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

eeneymeanymineymo said:


> oh, I thought the original poster could only see the 'edit' button......didn't realize it disappeared after only a few days.


Yes, the original poster is the only one who can see the EDIT button, but my previous posts were at about the same time and the EDIT button is gone so I inferred that the same would be true for the OP. It goes away after 24 hours, I think. I'm sure an admin could edit it, but I don't know.


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