# What am I doing wrong?



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I started to ask this question on somebody else's thread, but edited it out to avoid the appearance of popping up on somebody else's thread and making it all about me. : That wasn't my intention, but I realized it COULD look that way. 

If you want, skip over the quoted explanation to get to my question... 



> Just to clarify where I stand on some of this...
> 
> As far as training, I know everything pretty well from Puppy K through Novice. But that's about my limit as far training something RIGHT the first time and thoroughly understanding the methods.
> 
> ...


My question has to do with teaching a proper "go out" to your dog. 

I feel like there is something I've done very wrong because while my guy DOES go out, I still have to be within a couple feet to make him sit. 

The way we taught him to go out was using the paper plate or napkin and putting a treat on it. And using your hand next to the dog's nose to show him the direction to go, and sending him with you running right next to the dog to throw a party at the target spot. 

This turned into me running up and making him sit for a treat after getting the target treat. <- I think this is where I went wrong, because he's connecting the treat with me giving it to him by hand. Even if I'm tossing the treat. 

Would this be a simple matter of going back to step one, running with him to the target, and then squirting cheezwiz or dropping a visible reward on the plate as the reward for sitting. Hanging a bag of treats on a fence at the go out spot. Basically getting that second treat off my person so he's not expecting it to come from me? 

* We are also doing distance sits and downs/position changes. He does these fine. Our one instructor wanted me to teach a different sit command (signalling on the side of my body vs in front of the body to give the dog every opportunity of seeing the hand signal). We've only been practicing that new sit signal for a week and he's already connecting.

* I've also started warming him up to do DOR by using Janice Gunn's method of tossing the treat and sending the dog, tossing the treat in the other direction as he's coming back and sending the dog after that, throwing in a down command + tossing a treat as a reward, etc. 

^^^^ Keep in mind that I'm learning all of this with my dog. I don't have previous experience to fall back on... and I'm pretty sure I'm making a mistake somewhere. :no:


----------



## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Take this with a grain of salt, as it has been a long time since I had a reliable go-out. Dooley is just learning. But we start go outs with the dogs nose right at the target, be it stanshion, plate, whatever. Squeeze cheese is squirted on where you want them to look and immediately, say "look"...."go-back-get-it". Repeat this moving away from the target in small increments repeating the command. I wouldn't put the sit in for a while. 

I look forward to hearing how others suggest working our this, I learn so much from everyone.


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Hi! So will he sit on command at a distance? If so just say SIT while you are walking up to him, or sit before you start to follow him on his go out. Dogs are creatures of habit and soon enough he will start to anticipate the sit command and do it himself, just like they learn to sit on their own when you halt during heeling. Another thing you might want to practice is isolating the exact position and behavior you are wanting without doing the full go-out. Take him to the go-out spot and have him sit. Praise praise, give treat, break him off, repeat repeat repeat. Do not reward until he is sitting on his own. Obedience dogs are so programmed to sit for treats I'm surprised this is a difficult concept for him.
Does he do signals? 
Janice Gunn's get-it game for down is wonderful, I do that a lot with both my guys.


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Okay more brainstorming. A treat on the target plate is putting his nose on the ground which is NOT how you get a dog to sit. I fail to see how you giving him a treat is encouraging him not to sit. In fact, you could use this to your advantage, teach him he must sit and wait while you walk up and give the treat. Another thing I noticed, you really need to quickly get away from running WITH him and get him to go without your assistance. He has a target, he doesn't need you to hold his hand out there. Send him, let him get a head start and follow him out. By going WITH him and then futzing around at the target I think you are not teaching him what a go-out really is. He needs to do this himself. Another thing I'm a fan of is only giving treats for go outs by putting your treat hand BEHIND the gate and having the dog reach his nose through the gate to eat the treat. This does two things. Makes the dog very familiar and friendly with the gate itself (which for Jacks is big, as I believe he is very sensitive about objects like gates and jumps), secondly the dog will always expect that you will come to THEM to the go-out spot, not them run away from the go out spot to get a treat. You want that go out spot to be PARTY TIME and always a good place to be. I have seen dogs that were VERY UNCOMFORTABLE at the go out spot because the only thing that happened there was a correction if they did it wrong. When their owners are told to GO TO THEM and treat them AT the spot the dog literally could not wait to leave the area and was nervous about even taking a treat there. How sad!


----------



## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

When I start adding a sit to the go out, when sent, the dog either hears "get it" or "sit". With Dooley, I started using the clear dowel that Michelle suggested. This way, it can always be there, but not always visible. But then, Dooley will play with a plastic dowel with as much gusto as a ball. I just started using the two identical toys (ball with loop so it can hang on the stanchion) so one can always be on the target and I will have one for dog party (AT THE LOCATION OF THE SIT, never letting him come to me from between the jumps....just learned that, thanks Barb). Having a ball encouraged Doo to turn and sit nicely so that he could catch the ball I threw him. I don't like throwing the dowels. Gradually I can hide the toy/dowel but in practice, something will ALWAYS be there.

I trained my Brandy girl to go out to a bumper on a chair. Everyone laughed at me for doing so.....She never had a bad go out.


----------



## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

When I start the sits, I begin in my kitchen in a corner. On lead. My dogs are sent to the corner and cued to sit while I use the lead to ensure a fast, square sit. Then they are treated or rewarded. This will eventually become a game (continued through their life) of me racing my dog and snatching the treat if I beat them to the counter!

I then start to back chain the sit still on lead while outside or in the training hall. I start a few steps away and cue sit, gradually working a full ring away, first running then starting to let my dog win the race to the go out spot.

I will also hide some favorite toys here and there so the dog never knows when I might stay in my position, wait until he sits and then (i) run out to reward the dog with the hidden toy or treat. Some of my favorite hiding places are in trees since the dog will rarely think to look up. Their delight is really precious once they realize their (say) pooh bear has been waiting for them 

Go outs are a complicated exercise and need to be broken into a lot of pieces and a lot of different places.

The dog needs to wait, to run out in a straight line (dogs don't do straight lines) until told to turn around (name) sometimes to a stanchion but also to other things including walls, turn in a tight circle and sit without moving forward, They then need to wait for the signal and verbal to take a jump and to take the proper jump without coming directly to you.

This is a lot to train and I train the pieces seperately. Eventually the jumping becomes the reward but in the meantime your dog has probably been trained to stay fairly close to you - you are now asking him to leave you. Your dog may honestly not realize that he can sit away from you - he has sat at your side and in front of you enough so sitting away is a different thing. 

I personally never correct a dog at the go-out spot - as Anney mentioned this is a good way to create a bad attitude. 

I will also heel my dog, do an about turn and drop a treat/toy on an object (chair, even the floor etc)heel to the opposite side of the ring, do another about turn, demanding full focus on me, halt, pause, give the hand signal for mark, and send to the treat/toy Paaaaarty time when he gets it. This game will also work for marking etc - just drop a treat behind you and keep going. This will not create a dog that explores the floors - at least it never has for me since eventually you sit them before they reach the treat and then release them back.


Good luck!


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Thanks for all the feedback guys<:

I have set them up at home and at class. Whether there is a treat on the target or not, he knows the words "go out" means run in a straight line to the target and hunt for that treat. We got to the point where I tell him "go out" and he's lunging forward and galloping for the target. 

Early on I would jog after him to catch him before he turns around or wanders too far from the target to praise and "release" him there. <- This was before I started introducing sits.

When I introduced sits, I was jogging after him and asking for sit and rewarding right there at the spot. 

I'm good through there. But the problem I'm having is his focus is on me as the reward bringer vs understanding that I will bring a reward for sitting. If I'm not right there within 2 or so feet, he doesn't stick around long enough to hear the sit command in time. 

I give the sit command, but by that time he drops into it he's already lunged a couple feet back in my direction.

That's why I was thinking about seperating the treat from me - hanging the treats nearby or leaving the bottle in that area so he knows to stick around long enough to hear the sit command.

@corrections - definitely understand. The only correction I've been doing is telling him "no-no" and walking him back to sit at the target spot, telling him sit and rewarding him.


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Ah, okay now I can see the problem.
ONLY GIVING THE TREAT THROUGH THE GATE eliminates this. The dog knows he gets nothing from running forward to you, that you are bringing him the treat. Fisher will even back up in sit position as I walk toward him and smash himself up against the gate because I ONLY give a treat THROUGH THE GATE. 
Again, isolate this behavior, put him in a sit at the go out spot, and walk away, walk back praising him as you would in a go out but make him wait until you get there then FEED THROUGH THE GATE.


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

And actually it's good for him to think that YOU harbor the treats and not some magical place on the floor. He just needs to understand that you will only dispense said treat if he waits in that particular spot for you to bring it to him. Boy, this sounds like group stays, doesn't it?


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

K9-Design said:


> Boy, this sounds like group stays, doesn't it?


*weeps* And don't I know it. I wanted a dog who would stay with me and be focused only on me in the ring. And I got my wish. :doh:

Great advice. 

I'll probably go back to square one in putting a squirt of cheese on the gate and give myself time and enough reps so he has a solid go out to the fence before I start asking for sits.

When I start sits, do I ask for a sit facing the right direction and then release to the treat from behind the fence?


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Megora said:


> *weeps* And don't I know it. I wanted a dog who would stay with me and be focused only on me in the ring. And I got my wish. :doh:


Trust me, I know ALLLLLLL about it!



> I'll probably go back to square one in putting a squirt of cheese on the gate and give myself time and enough reps so he has a solid go out to the fence before I start asking for sits.
> 
> When I start sits, do I ask for a sit facing the right direction and then release to the treat from behind the fence?


I think you're overthinking the sit aspect of this whole thing. I would tell him to sit each time you do a go out. Have him do the go-out and eat the treat off the target, follow him out, as he finishes the treat tell him to sit, no matter where he is, what direction he's facing, and if he tries to come to you just catch him and lead him back and repeat SIT at the spot, then treat through the gate. It will only take a little while of doing this before he chains it all together and starts sitting. Don't worry about where he's facing as they all tend to square up once they understand the exercise, especially when you start jumping them. But yes, if you can get him to turn completely and sit with his back to the gate that's great, and yes just let him get up and get the treat behind the gate. Don't overthink this, just do it


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Oh, and I never really understood doing a go-out WITHOUT sitting. As in, putting the sit in later. They're obedience dogs. Sit is like the first thing they learn, and their default behavior. This is not a big thing to them, and they will ALWAYS -- and I mean ALWAYS -- be required to sit at the end of a go out in the ring. Why give them other options?


----------



## BeckyB (Jan 21, 2008)

I have always taught the go-out by using a pvc box, Its about 2`x2`.....I teach when there puppies to go in the box and sit, down,spin(right), twirl(left) wave ect. 
By the time i teach to go out my dog can do all the above in the box from 60` away(good for signals as well) so teaching them to run to the box is easy because fun things happen in the box and they already know how to turn and sit in the box.

When im doing go outs i always feed through the gate , I use the box most of the time to keep my go outs straight but remove the box to test him sometimes and because he sits in a box a lot he does not creep, he has a very nice turn and sit and had done 80` go outs to his box and without.

I personally don't like putting food on the gate or go-out spot because ive seen so many dogs run out and sniff around for food , the box has worked so well for my dogs and its fun.
You can put a bit of food in the box at first but the dog should soon learn that when he gets in the box you give him a treat.
A hoola hoop works just as well as a box and i have several of them as well (in car,at home,training building ect.)

Just some ideas anyway, good luck


----------



## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

K9-Design said:


> Oh, and I never really understood doing a go-out WITHOUT sitting.


Well, it worked well for me.


----------



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

If I have a dog walking forward on a sit, I put out a yard stick. If they cross back over the yard stick after they turn then I tell them no and pat the yard stick on the ground. Every dog I have ever used that with learned within about two sessions not to move forward, and I never had issues taking the stick away after that.

I want my dogs to go all the way out to the gate and perform an action because I don't think dogs are good at figuring out it's five feet in front of the gate that you want them to stop. So when you sit them five feet away every time they will usually eventually start to anticipate the sit earlier and earlier. If you don't care if they run all the way out to the gate then that's different, because I do think they can understand run all the way to the gate and sit every time. The five feet away thing tends to make it fuzzier and I want my expectations completely clear to the dog. So my expectation is for them to go all the way to the gate unless I tell you otherwise.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

@Jodie & Becky - From watching the Open/Utility class before mine, I got the idea to use a dowel in front of the spot where I want him to turn around and sit. I also put dowels on the sides to sort of give him an idea of a "park it" spot. 

He'd skip right over those things on his frantic way back to me.  

Again I wanted to thank everyone for brainstorming for me and telling me how you train this. The problem I've had is knowing precisely how the "go out" needs to be taught from our classes a couple years ago. And then watching the finished product with the sits from watching more advanced trainers at class. And being totally unsure about the in-between parts... 

I need to pick up a gate to work with at home... I assume it has to look like ring gating and can't be a baby gate. :doh: I think I need to place an order from J&J after all. 

Last night I did a little doodle work in our living room. Thinking about bringing his focus up off the ground, I put the treat (on the usual paper plate) on a little table that was at his face level. 

And then I sent him in the go-out and followed him close behind like suggesed. I don't know if he was tired, or the fact the treat was up at his face level, or I used a crunchy treat that he wasn't swallowing in a single bite, _or if he had read what I was complaining about on this thread_. I told him "sit" at the point he got the treat and he turned around and sat, smiling at me while crunching. It was inexplicable.  We still have a long way to go before I can get him to sit without me moving from the original spot, but at least I have something positive I can go nuts praising him for and building on.


----------



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Megora said:


> @Jodie & Becky - From watching the Open/Utility class before mine, I got the idea to use a dowel in front of the spot where I want him to turn around and sit. I also put dowels on the sides to sort of give him an idea of a "park it" spot.
> 
> He'd skip right over those things on his frantic way back to me.
> 
> .


Well you do have to teach them what it means. If you start up close, you can tell them no as soon as they cross, and then I bend down, lift one end of the stick, and continue saying no as I tap that end on the ground. You have to start up close and work your way back so you can react quickly enough.


----------



## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Megora;1567758And then I sent him in the go-out and followed him close behind like suggesed. I don't know if he was tired said:


> If you don't want him to pick something up off the ground, to keep his head up, I saw at a Terri Southard seminar where she uses a small denim bumper in both white and black. There is velcro attached to it, so you could put it up virtually anywhere. First it would be highly visible then you would move it to the back of the gate or whatever you are using, then you would change to a color that blends in with your go out target. I made a few of these and it worked pretty well.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

DNL2448 said:


> If you don't want him to pick something up off the ground, to keep his head up, I saw at a Terri Southard seminar where she uses a small denim bumper in both white and black. There is velcro attached to it, so you could put it up virtually anywhere. First it would be highly visible then you would move it to the back of the gate or whatever you are using, then you would change to a color that blends in with your go out target. I made a few of these and it worked pretty well.


Do you have problems with them getting confused about retrieves when you use toys or bumpers?

Watching your video on the other thread - I liked the idea of moving away from food (simply because I'm really loading the treats as we practice this every day). But I was concerned about going that route because we play hidden or placed retrieve games. We do that because I didn't want him to get in the habit where he will only retrieve something that has just been thrown.


----------



## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Not really, because (and I don't know if you can see it in the video) I have two identical toys. One is placed on the stanchion (or whatever I am doing a go out to) the other I have. His cue on go out is either "get it" for the stationary toy at the target or "sit". I have found with Dooley that he presents a very nice tight turn knowing I am going to throw him the toy. Thanks to Barb and others, I am going to start going out to him and we will play with the toy without throwing it occasionally as well. I am trying to back off of the food in training with him, as I, too, am using it too much.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

One more question... :wave:

Thanks again for the advice here and I guess I want to say that I feel a lot better about where we are as far as "go-outs", considering I have no clue what I'm doing with this. I did a couple at class a couple weeks ago without feeling really weird and embarrassed about it. 

I've also started randomly sending him to empty targets and rewarding him when he sits. I'm hoping he will make the connection that the treat comes after the go out and sit command. 

^ My instructor back in novice class told me to never let him see me put treats on the target. Unfortunately, I didn't take her advice, always let him see me load the target, so I have to undo that. 

So far the way I've been doing that is attaching the word "Mark" to the spot where I want him to go. I will go halfway and point at the spot and then return to his side and send him. Whether I have food there or not. I hope to wean that off to just me pointing at the spot from heel position with the word "Mark" and sending him. 

As it is right now, he will go and check out the target and if there is nothing there turn around and shuffle into a sit facing me. 

My question though has to do with the level of practice we are doing. And how many reps we are doing. 

I am doing a LOT of reps until we get a perfect empty target send and turn around sit. 

My old instructor said to never burn out an exercise by doing too many reps, so I'm worried I'm over doing this and not making this enough fun for him. Even though he's loving all the attention and treats. 

The other thing, I'm assuming I should keep at that certain level (sending him and trying to be within 5 feet to ensure he sits) until he's successful on that first try. Right? 

And then backing up a foot at a time. Right? 

Or should I just maintain that training level (within 5 feet) until this is automatic and solid? 

Or should I be focusing on shrinking the target down right now before backing away? 

(*** just to show I'm not planning out life on the other side of the gap before building the bridge, we are also working on DOR and dumbbell retrieves over high jumps finally. He's completely adorable springing over the jump with the dumbbell.  )


----------



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I never move ahead of my dog to point out where he needs to go. I'll move up _with _my dog as close as I need to be for him to be successful, even if that means I'm only one foot away with a green dog. But the skill I need for him to learn is to learn to mark from my side, so that's what I start teaching him from day one.

I keep the go out completely seperate from the sit until the dog is doing full length go outs without problems most of the time. Until I work on sits from a distance seperately.

By the way, this weekend the utility judge was hitting 3 POINTS for dogs going too close to the gate, and 6 POINTS for dogs actually touching the gate. And of course that is for EACH go out. A friend of mine working on her UDX said "you're not supposed to send them all the way to the gate?" :doh:


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Loisiana said:


> I never move ahead of my dog to point out where he needs to go. I'll move up _with _my dog as close as I need to be for him to be successful, even if that means I'm only one foot away with a green dog. But the skill I need for him to learn is to learn to mark from my side, so that's what I start teaching him from day one.


I think that's where I made the mistake... or basically Jacks was watching me put the treats on the target and thought that "mark" meant the treat. That's one thing I did wrong. That's why I'm trying to reteach "mark" means "THAT is where you go when I say go". >.<


----------



## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Loisiana said:


> By the way, this weekend the utility judge was hitting 3 POINTS for dogs going too close to the gate, and 6 POINTS for dogs actually touching the gate. And of course that is for EACH go out. A friend of mine working on her UDX said "you're not supposed to send them all the way to the gate?" :doh:


6 points?! Wow - she considered it both a minor & a substantial deduction?


----------



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Sunrise said:


> 6 points?! Wow - she considered it both a minor & a substantial deduction?


who knows....just like the judge who hit 10 points for moving on the stand. Not sure how one mistake can be worth 10 points, either hit a 5 or NQ. But maybe she saw the go out as two seperate things, like going too far out and being slow to respond? I didn't actually watch utility so I don't know.


----------



## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Yep there are a few judges going to teach us all lessons..ROFL!
We have one at the NOI that has already warned if we send our dogs too far she will be taking substantial points, which I am totally okay with as long as it is the same for everyone. I will still train my same way and hopefully remember to opne my mouth in time..LOL! I have a real tough time judging depth as I get older..


----------



## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Most of our shows have gating, so I judge distance off of them LOL I know one girl who paced off distances and was really thrown if they moved the jumps - a top dog but not a really strong jumper - so I learned to judge the distances by the gating.


----------



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

There's usually a cross mat along the end of the ring, so I know I need to stop him right before he gets to that mat. Of course that's not always the case, and it makes it a lot harder to judge the distance when it's not.


----------



## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

Just a clarification (I would like several opinions)...

So what exactly do you all target to when you are teaching the go-out? Do you place a target on the ground? Do you target to the fence? Does the treat always come from you? Do you train the dog to run and sit with their butt very very close to the fence in practice, but stop them early in competition?


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

goldengirls550 said:


> Just a clarification (I would like several opinions)...
> 
> So what exactly do you all target to when you are teaching the go-out? Do you place a target on the ground? Do you target to the fence? Does the treat always come from you? Do you train the dog to run and sit with their butt very very close to the fence in practice, but stop them early in competition?


My understanding of what I'm doing with this exercise is pretty scrambled, and generally (aside from what I learned in bits and pieces from actual instructors working with me and the boy) does come from watching other people at classes preceding my usual class without completely understanding all of the ins and outs so take whatever you want from that... 

I was taught that a target is something visible at a specific spot that means WAITING REWARD to your dog. Over time the target shrinks down and then you take it away. And you don't want that visible target to be something that will be anywhere in the ring when you show*. 

Where I take classes right now, there is a clicker box which is basically a flat piece of wood hinged to another flat piece of wood and with a clicker between the two. 

They also use rounded flat pieces of brightly colored rubber as targets. These are flat enough that they blend right in with the matt, except they are brightly colored. 

Other people use sticky notes on the wall. Or paper plates for the floor. 

Other people that I've seen use the clear dowel. 

Or they use a place mat to show where the dog needs to sit.

I've never really seen anyone use the PVC parking spot that has already been mentioned on this thread, but some people use leashes or folding yardstick thingy for the go out spot.

*I was toying with the idea of just using duct tape to mark the target spot on the wall or floor, but doh! Guess what most judges use to mark the start spot... :bowl:


----------



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

For me target means what they are looking at and going to, so for me it is ALWAYS the gate itself. I don't want to start with a visible target that won't be in the ring later on and will have to wean away from. 

I've trained four dogs to do go outs now, and all four have been trained to run all the way to the gate and do something. What I had them do at the gate was different for each dog. With Annabel she had a nose touch. For Conner I tucked a treat pouch between the stanchion and the gate, and he had to retrieve the pouch and bring it back to me for the treat. Colby had a paw touch. Flip's main go out is to retrieve a piece of clear plastic tubing (tucked into the same spot that Conner's pouch was), but he also has a paw touch that I practice on occasion.

Three of the four dogs were taught to perform that action unless I told them to sit before hand. With Colby, just attempting to get a UD on a Lhasa Apso was enough for me, I wasn't so concerned about his scores, so I always let him touch the gate before I gave the sit command.

I might sit the dog close to the gate every once in a while, but most of the time when I give the sit command I am trying to get the dog to sit in the correct spot. I think this takes a lot of practice to get the timing down right, so most of our sits take place 5 feet from the gate.


----------



## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

So, if you let Connor or Flip touch their target, do you go to them to reward immediately after? Do you practice go outs to other things besides a ring gate? Like a wall or just a regular fence? Or do you think this is confusing for the dog? I would think that a go out is a go out is a go out. The dog runs away until I say sit.

On the other hand, if you do say sit, how do you reward the dog?


----------



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

For a dog that has done a touch, I will often either throw a reward out to them or go meet them out there. After a sit, I will either throw something at them, go out to them, or have them jump. Or occasionally I will ask for a different behavior.

I always send to _something_. Besides gates, I also send to the poles in fences a lot. If I don't have either of those I might send to something else standing upright, like a tree.


----------



## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks for the clarification. I may try working with Layla in the long hotel hallways since we have several weekends of agility trials in a row during my winter break. We haven't done anything obedience-wise in forever! There just hasn't been enough time, and my club at home doesn't have very competitive obedience trainers so I haven't had someone to work with. I'm looking forward to starting back up in the next year. Hopefully moving Layla to Denver with me will give me some new motivation (and resources!).


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

@targets - I had a good laugh at class today because the rubber circles came out. It wasn't for go-out practice, but Jacks was CONVINCED that's what was going on. He kept rushing over to check the circle out and then turning around and sitting expectantly. How cute is that<:


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Thanks to Thanksgiving week being chaos.... I didn't get too much training done. Except for today.

I'm excited (keep in mind I'm still using our hallway) to say I think something is starting to click. Or to the extent that he's trying to cheat now. He's going out to within a foot of the target and pivot/sitting on his own without me telling him. Oops. 

I backed up and put treats on the target, praised him when he touched the target, and then told him to sit. He did it perfectly.

The next empty target I did, he did it perfectly. 

*So we did three go-outs - and the last two were perfect*. The first was still a cheat.  Thanks again, people for your help. 

Beyond that we did a mixture of things (signal work, moving stands, call front from heel position, drops, and regular fronts and finishes). Every single thing was perfect the first time.

The only bad thing about training today is he got over hyped up and demanding. Barking, mouthing, bringing me everything except the kitchen sink to play tug with... oh dear.


----------



## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Sounds like a great session  It is always better to have a dog who is too up than too down - yes, you can loose the same amount of points but you all have more fun and the spectators are not left with a bad impression. Something about an up down brings a smile to (almost) everyone's face


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Sunrise said:


> Sounds like a great session  It is always better to have a dog who is too up than too down - yes, you can loose the same amount of points but you all have more fun and the spectators are not left with a bad impression. Something about an up down brings a smile to (almost) everyone's face


We just had another one of those sessions... 

I just put him in a ten minute down stay (and counting) because he was so hyped up he wouldn't stop barking and mouthing afterwards. The mouthing is... well, it is. But this is he who never barks. That's how hyper and demanding-more-training he was.  

We started off with rally type jumps - me running past and him jumping 16"

Then did straight recalls over the 16" jump. Then 20".

Then we worked on retrieves over high jump. Just 20" because we haven't done these very often and I want him to be successful. He did this PERFECT!!!! 

Then I took him to our hallway to do go-outs. We only did three. Two with treated targets, the third empty. I yelled "YES-SIT" when he touched the target each time. He did them PERFECT. With me standing still, never moving from the send spot, I might add. I'm so excited! *bounces up and down* 

The other thing we did today was introduce the DOR from a wait at the other end of the hall. I don't want him to get confused about the front, so I reverted to my old "come pose" with me standing sideways with my hip facing him. And I'm just doing two "come" calls instead of come and front. He did them pretty good for somebody who has just been doing the Janice Gunn drills up through now. 

And we finished with signals. 

I have to admit that working on these things is a lot more fun than working on straight novice. Or I just like training something NEW and seeing the light go on.


----------



## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Megora said:


> I have to admit that working on these things is a lot more fun than working on straight novice. Or I just like training something NEW and seeing the light go on.


So true! Dooley should be close to ready for Open and Utility when we get our CD!

Keep up the great work, sounds like lightbulbs are coming on all over the place!!!


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

DNL2448 said:


> So true! Dooley should be close to ready for Open and Utility when we get our CD!


That's my hope for Jacks as well. I'd originally had a plan to get his novice title by the time he was 1 or 2, that way to give us plenty of time to dedicate class training time to open and utility. I thought these things had to be done in order, not all at once. 

The instructor I had with my Danny would not let people sign up for the open classes until the person had at least one novice leg, and you couldn't do utility until you had at least one open leg. I think the idea was to ensure that she had serious trainers at those classes who were close to the same level of training. 

But anyway, thanks to Jacks' stays being so rotten and eating so much time out of his training life, I've started getting serious about training everything else. Maybe by the time he figures out that stays aren't evil, we can get everything in short order. Especially if he's OLD by then. :bowl: 

I think the Graduate Open optional title does not have stays at all.... so I'm aiming for that even if my dog never survives Open stays. :crossfing We just have to learn everything. 

There is a scent discrimination seminar where I train next week (I think?) and I was thinking about signing up. Except we don't have any articles. And even if I ordered them, I wouldn't have them in time for the class. :bowl: But we are going to aim for classes like that next year. I'll say as much whenever anyone puts out a 2012 goals thread. 

*** I need to video Jacks doing the go-outs.  He's just getting better each time. It really came down to giving him every opportunity to be successful so I can mark the behavior. And marking the TWO good behaviors. YES for the touch, and YES for the sit. 

We did mini go-outs at a fun match this week. I was shy about sneaking into the empty ring in front of all of the utility people sitting on the side, so I just claimed an empty corner of the room where I had 10 feet of space all to myself. 

I am still using a target right now, because I don't want him to get confused and regress while he's still learning. The target I used at the match since I didn't have any target plates was just his leash. 

I put him in a wait 6 feet away from the wall and put the leash down and "loaded" it with a treat. Planted my feet, sent him, told him sit, and rewarded. 

Then we bumped it up to 10 feet. Same deal. 

He went to the target, nommed the treat, and then turned around and sat when I told him to. Just like he's been doing at home. 

I think we are getting to that point where I can carefully build more distance at class. It's hard because I am so new at this I feel embarrassed doing it in front of other people just yet. Like they are going to come up and tell me that we are doing it ALL WRONG. :bowl: If the Open classes I'm taking this winter are anything like they were last year, it will help build my confidence.


----------



## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I used to have a stick that the dog had to go over and then turn. It seemed to help train them to not go forward.... The stick is then pretty easily removed. I have found using a stick(jump pole, whatever) to be useful in other areas like the drop on recall as well...


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Sally's Mom said:


> I used to have a stick that the dog had to go over and then turn. It seemed to help train them to not go forward.... The stick is then pretty easily removed. I have found using a stick(jump pole, whatever) to be useful in other areas like the drop on recall as well...


The drop on recall may be a target for another panicked thread by and by. I'm being very patient and alternating between the toss, toss, toss, down, toss, etc... to putting him in a wait and calling him to come, telling him down, praising the down to mark the down and rewarding, calling him to come for another reward. 

So far he is really good at home - keep in mind we are really babystepping.

The problem I can see happening isn't going to happen at home necessarily, but at class he is SUPER ANXIOUS to come to me (I know everyone is really surprised :curtain: that Mr. No-Stay has an overpowered and overenthusiastic come). This means that by the time a judge gives a drop command, he will already be 3/4 of the way to me, which only gives him so much stopping distance. Which means I either have to slow him down somehow or get him dropping like a shot. :uhoh:


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

^^^^ This isn't how we usually train this. He knew there wasn't a treat at the end of the hallway, so I was being a bit emphatic there with the mark business. 

Poor Jacks. I had it playing just now and he went running around the room trying to figure out where the squeaky toy was.


----------

