# Loss of undercoat, feathers and tail feathering, "crunchy" coat, muscle weakness



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

the only thing that comes to mind is that the thyroid should have been decreased slowly, not changed so suddenly. Wish I had more ideas for you.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I am unsure about the numbers, but my Casey needs to stay slightly in the hyperthyroid range to maintain his coat, energy and beautiful tail. A pill once a day does not sound like enough to me - if the dosage is right, I would consider asking the vet if dividing the tablet in half and giving a half in the morning and the second half in the evening might give him better coverage.

For instance, my Casey gets 1.5 pills in the morning and 1 in the evening at 0.5 mg.

All of my dogs who have been hypothyroid (I used to smoke which might have contributed to their hypothyroidism), were given the meds twice a day regardless of dose.

Good luck !


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I think it's most likely due to the thyroid meds being not quite right, either because of amount, timing, or absorption. Given that it was already an issue and explains all of the symptoms, it's probably the most likely explanation.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Thanks hotel4dogs. I appreciate the idea.

Here is a picture of his coat, tail and feathers in March or April of last year:










And the day after Christmas.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Lilah has the same problem with her coat, and those pictures look exactly like the change in her coat. She used to have a very thick coat, thick full feathering on her legs and hips, but it's gotten so thin and sparse, and she has barely any feathers anymore. I have had her thyroid tested and she's right int he middle and doesn't need medication. 

I'm interested in hearing other suggestions besides thyroid being the problem.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Thanks for all of the ideas. I appreciate them. Please keep them coming.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

mylissyk said:


> Lilah has the same problem with her coat, and those pictures look exactly like the change in her coat. She used to have a very thick coat, thick full feathering on her legs and hips, but it's gotten so thin and sparse, and she has barely any feathers anymore. I have had her thyroid tested and she's right int he middle and doesn't need medication.
> 
> I'm interested in hearing other suggestions besides thyroid being the problem.


I remember your posting those pictures a year or two ago. They did look a lot like Jasper's.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Your dog sounds hypothyroid again. If we just measure T4 and send it to Idexx, they want the value slightly hyperthyroid. However, we usually send the thyroid monitoring panel to MSU when we have the dog on thyroid supplement, plus you can get an endocrinologist interpretation. It gives more values than just T4. We also usually draw blood 4-5 hours post pill.


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## Katie and Paddy's Mum (Mar 31, 2010)

To me, I firmly believe that your vet cut back Jaspers meds too quickly and far too much (dosage). For example, my parents dog, Paddy also has hypothyroidism and about 2 years ago his values went into the "hyper" range. He was losing weight, drinking so much water and was a little manic. Paddy had been on 0.8mg of thyroxine daily. Our vet did not cut back 50% - instead he cut Paddy back by 0.1mg and measured again in 6 weeks. At 6 weeks, he was borderline, so he cut him back another 0.1mg and he is now maintaining at that dose. So while Paddy went into hyper ranges, it only took lowering his dosage by 25% and very slowly (still giving his tablet twice a day) to get him regulated.

One of the biggest symptoms for hypothyroidism is what is known as a "rat tail" - where the dog begins to lose hair from the bum and hind end. 

Like someone else said, my vet explained that the T4 being somewhat over the normal ranges can be very normal for a dog being supplemented with thyroid meds, but you really want to pay attention to the Free T4 levels as that is an indication of how well the body is processing the thyroid medication. 

I would have your vet run another full panel thyroid screen. My vet always recommends that the blood be drawn 4-6 hours post giving the pill AND he also recommends it be done on an empty stomach that way no other factors influence results.

Have you considered emailing Dr. Dodd's to get her opinion on this? I know she can be very helpful when it comes to thyroid issues.

Anyhow, that is what my thinking leans towards. I hope you get it sorted out, it must be very distressing! But really all the symptoms you're describing: loss of coat on tail, hind end stiffness, increased scratching are all classic hypothyroid symptoms.

Kim


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Thanks for the additional comments and suggestions! Yes, it's very distressing to know that he has to feel pretty darn cruddy.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

fostermom said:


> I remember your posting those pictures a year or two ago. They did look a lot like Jasper's.


Hopefully Jasper's is just a need to get his thyroid medication leveled. I wish I could find something to explain Lilah's problems. Different times of the year it's worse.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

mylissyk said:


> Hopefully Jasper's is just a need to get his thyroid medication leveled. I wish I could find something to explain Lilah's problems. Different times of the year it's worse.


If I find out that it's something else, I will definitely let you know mylissyk!


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## bioteach (Nov 13, 2010)

My Buckskin had a very severe problem with hypothyroidism and he kept his coat. We supplemented his food with Fish Oil and I really believe that it helped him because living in the desert with our dry air the oil was very good for his skin anyway. 

The funny part is that I take thyroid medication and the pharmacist insists that it be taken first thing on a completely empty stomach with plenty of water. Apparently taking it later in the day with or after food will prevent proper absorption. What does the vet say about this?


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## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

Just as with humans, hypothyroidism should be treated holistically and not just on paper..look at the patient andd what does the vet see? A patient who has responded perfectly to a middle range dose as dictated by age old medical books meaning all dogs are identical or a dog that needs to treated slightly higher or lower depending on its own individual body needs and how its body would have naturally responded had it not been dependant on being given thyroxine? The more modern day thoughts and findings are that treatment often needs to be more aimed at leaning towards hyper. Fuller profiles need to be looked at too. Temp responses differ too even with treated hypothyroidism in humans of course so why not dogs..could that affect their coats?


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

bioteach;1335736
The funny part is that I take thyroid medication and the pharmacist insists that it be taken first thing on a completely empty stomach with plenty of water. Apparently taking it later in the day with or after food will prevent proper absorption. What does the vet say about this?[/QUOTE said:


> I wondered about this too. I read it was best to give one hour before food or three hours after--so that's what we did with Brooks. The vet said it didn't matter.
> Then I found that because I was having to separate the pill administration from feeding time, I was starting to miss doses. So, finally, I decided to just give it with the food so at least the medicine was regularly given. I rationalized that consistency in administration was important, and whatever his thyroid levels are with this schedule will dictate whether the dosage needs changing or not.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Elly, that's a really good point! I have to be my dogs' advocate and I need to do whatever it takes to get this figured out.

I don't give it to him on an empty stomach, it wasn't something that either vet ever suggested, much less said was important. I think I will try to give it to him when I come home at lunch. That's the only time I know that it's been a long time since he's eaten (I feed at 6 AM).


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

fostermom said:


> Elly, that's a really good point! I have to be my dogs' advocate and I need to do whatever it takes to get this figured out.
> 
> I don't give it to him on an empty stomach, it wasn't something that either vet ever suggested, much less said was important. I think I will try to give it to him when I come home at lunch. That's the only time I know that it's been a long time since he's eaten (I feed at 6 AM).


That may help Jasper's absorption of the medication. We also follow the 1 hour prior to eating or wait until 3 hours after feeding protocol.

We do a MSU panel once a year with quarterly thyroid absorption tests (fasting blood draw) to check Toby's levels. The fluctuate wildly depending on the season--in the spring and summer he's hypothryoid and in fall/winter he's on the upper levels of normal.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

We just drew blood to check Gunner's thyroid as he was low normal and has been on thyroid meds for two years. (.5 twice a day.)
But Gunner also has had allergic reactions to changes in food, treats and shampoo which resulted in his losing all his fur, lots of weight and resembled thyroid symptoms. He is just now getting his lush coat back and still has a sparse tail.

I was giving Gunner fish oil caps twice a day but he has developed reflux so have stopped them for now. I know the oil can cause reflux.

Hope you figure out Danny's issue. His coat and tail were so gorgeous before!!!


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## booklady (Mar 3, 2009)

My vet has always told me to give Chance's thyroid meds 1/2 hour before eating. 

My initial reaction to Jasper's lower dosage was why doesn't he still take it twice a day (in a lower dosage). As I've been led to understand that keeps the level at a more even keel.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

booklady said:


> My vet has always told me to give Chance's thyroid meds 1/2 hour before eating.
> 
> My initial reaction to Jasper's lower dosage was why doesn't he still take it twice a day (in a lower dosage). As I've been led to understand that keeps the level at a more even keel.



My vet has never done a twice a day dosing, Jasper was diagnosed by another vet who did the twice a day dosing, so she followed their recommendations. I think that could also be the problem. Thanks for the idea. Another thing to run past the vet!


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Okay, the vet's coming on Thursday to do a full thyroid panel. *fingers crossed that it shows something*


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## Katie and Paddy's Mum (Mar 31, 2010)

fostermom said:


> Okay, the vet's coming on Thursday to do a full thyroid panel. *fingers crossed that it shows something*


Definitely wishing you good luck. Let's hope it's a simple fix like adjusting his thyroid meds!!

Kim


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## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

Just wondering if theres an update? Hoping things are better now


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I hope he's doing better!


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Yes, sorry I forgot to update this thread. His level was down to 1.9, so we went back to the initial dosing of .5 twice a day. Within 5 days his undercoat started growing back in. His coat is soft and thick again and the muscle weakness has gone away completely.

I seriously think the first bloodwork that started the whole downward spiral wasn't actually Jasper's and that the lab mixed up his bloodwork with another dog's.

Thanks for asking! I am so glad to have my happy, healthy boy back.


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

Well, i am certainly glad the mess was corrected. Our scooter's coat sounded just like tha before he was diagnosed with low thyroid. He was on .8 soloxine twice a day.

Years later his full brohter later litter, was diagnosed just about the time he turned 10. He had beautiful thick, glossy, soft coat, hih energy, etc and neither our vt nor i suspected low thryid---it was caught during a pre dental full blood work up. His was so low th ehad to take 1 1/2 of the .9 soloxine twice day.

Strang, scooter *(diagnosed at age 4) showed all the classic symptoms, and his full brother, diagnosed at age 10didnt' show any....and his was wrose than schooters. By the way, buck had a full geriatric blood pannel done jsut a few months before and his thyroid level had been perfect. We have o idea why the sudden and rapid onset that caused it to be so low.


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## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

Great, exactly as I thought then, so glad it was retested, give him a big hug from us!!!


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