# Conformation critique--this will be fun!



## CarolinaCasey

Sounds like a great idea. I don't breed or have any conformation dogs but would be interested in learning from the pros about which dogs represent the standard best.


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## vrocco1

I'm going to have to resist posting a picture of myself. (kidding  )


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## Gwen

vrocco1 said:


> I'm going to have to resist posting a picture of myself. (kidding  )


The critique would include: needs to tone up, too heavy in the chest, feet are too big, slow moving, trips over feet, :no::no::no::bowl::bowl::bowl::uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:...... not you vern, ME!!!!!

... I don't know if I want to go first?????????









I tried to post 15 week old Razz's pic without success so I won't even try Nyg's.... yes, I'm having PC problems


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## donnaj03

*Our BIS. Ch. Atlanticgold's Brooklyn Heights. SDHF.*​


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## telsmith1

Abondell's Heir To The Throne (10 Months Old)


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## Gwen

donnaj03 said:


> *Our BIS. Ch. Atlanticgold's Brooklyn Heights. SDHF.*​


No expert here but I will give my critique - Very nice!!!!!! I like!!!!!!


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## hotel4dogs

I must be feeling contrary tonight...I don't know how one can critique a dog from a photo? So much depends on the grooming, etc. and without feeling the dog there's no real way to tell what's under the fur.


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## K9-Design

hotel4dogs said:


> I must be feeling contrary tonight...I don't know how one can critique a dog from a photo? So much depends on the grooming, etc. and without feeling the dog there's no real way to tell what's under the fur.


Tee hee -- I feel the same way -- and Donna needs to stack Brooklyn so she's not looking skyward with her back feet stretched so far out!!! Then all of anything I was going to critique would go away


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## Pointgold

K9-Design said:


> Tee hee -- I feel the same way -- and Donna needs to stack Brooklyn so she's not looking skyward with her back feet stretched so far out!!! Then all of anything I was going to critique would go away


Ditto. Because I _know _that dog is NOT ewe-necked or straight stifled.


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## Pointgold

Go for it!


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## Bender

donnaj03 said:


> *Our BIS. Ch. Atlanticgold's Brooklyn Heights. SDHF.*​


Ok I'll go.... 

The way he's got his head makes him look short in the back, and takes away a bit from his shoulder - looks a bit choppy with the sharp angle of his neck. Lovely head and expression though, can't complain there!

Not sure if he's free stacked or not? I would put his back feet forward a bit - he looks like he's leaning. Nicely balanced front and back anyway, I like him. Guessing he's a young dog waiting to grow some hair? Only thing I'd suggest for grooming is some fluff work to get his feathering to stand out a bit more on his front legs and bib. 

It's a hard picture in that he's got his head up like that and tail tucked, when usually you see stacked shots with the head a bit more forward and the tail held out. Very pretty boy though.

And to be fair, I'll get a stacked shot of Storee, ungroomed, bald and thin and post it for comments. No laughing at the hunt'n dog though!

Lana


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## Pointgold

Bender said:


> Ok I'll go....
> 
> The way he's got his head makes him look short in the back, and takes away a bit from his shoulder - looks a bit choppy with the sharp angle of his neck. Lovely head and expression though, can't complain there!
> 
> Not sure if he's free stacked or not? I would put his back feet forward a bit - he looks like he's leaning. Nicely balanced front and back anyway, I like him. Guessing he's a young dog waiting to grow some hair? Only thing I'd suggest for grooming is some fluff work to get his feathering to stand out a bit more on his front legs and bib.
> 
> It's a hard picture in that he's got his head up like that and tail tucked, when usually you see stacked shots with the head a bit more forward and the tail held out. Very pretty boy though.
> 
> 
> Lana


 
Lana, I dunno. I think he's bitchy.


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## Bender

:doh: when you cant check them out in person you can't tell if they're packing or not. Sorry, thought that was a boy. That and was just looking at stud dogs so expecting the dripping coats....

I will now go back to my crate and proceed to type out the stuff I promised DH two days ago.....:new (13):

Lana


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## Pointgold

Bender said:


> :doh: when you cant check them out in person you can't tell if they're packing or not. Sorry, thought that was a boy. That and was just looking at stud dogs so expecting the dripping coats....
> 
> I will now go back to my crate and proceed to type out the stuff I promised DH two days ago.....:new (13):
> 
> Lana


SMOOCH! LOL. I couldn't resist.


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## Bender

Pointgold said:


> SMOOCH! LOL. I couldn't resist.


You are too kind.....:

I blame it on the drink menu I had sitting here. Can you get drunk from typing? 

Lana


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## K9-Design

Pointgold said:


> Go for it!


Straight line from ear to elbow -- not good -- but probably more Sylvia's stacking than the dog!
See, this is why pictures are hard.
My dogs are perfect in every way so no need for me to post their pictures!!!


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## Pointgold

K9-Design said:


> Straight line from ear to elbow -- not good -- but probably more Sylvia's stacking than the dog!
> See, this is why pictures are hard.
> My dogs are perfect in every way so no need for me to post their pictures!!!


Curious as to why that bothers you? I'd be more bothered that her rear looks straighter that it actually is.


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## hotel4dogs

From the point of view of someone who is sooo new to this and knows sooo little, I'd love to see it as a discussion of "what's wrong with this STACK" rather than "what's wrong with this DOG"!! I could really learn from that!


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## arcane

Can't critique from pics alone...they can give an idea, but I truly feel you must get your hands on....


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## Dalton's mom

They're all beautiful!


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## Pointgold

It is true that you cannot accurately assess a dog from photos. Hands on, and being able to see movement, are the only way that you can.


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## Fidele

Cedar's not for show - so no show pic (is that what STACKED means?) - how about a mental composite from the following? Can you tell how/if he measures up to golden standards? Although he's a rescue, I know he's registered - is there any way to look up a pedigree using the owner's name? I'd love to know his "background."


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## MillysMom

Pointgold said:


> I'd be more bothered that her rear looks straighter that it actually is.


Wow, I'm proud of myself. I was going to say her rear looks a bit too straight. I am so new to this and just trying to learn.


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## MillysMom

hotel4dogs said:


> From the point of view of someone who is sooo new to this and knows sooo little, I'd love to see it as a discussion of "what's wrong with this STACK" rather than "what's wrong with this DOG"!! I could really learn from that!


I think that's a great idea! Anyone up for changing it to this? I know pictures don't give you the whole picture (no pun intended), but I'm sure there is still stuff to learn that visuals would really help with the learning process. 

If anyone wants to comment on their own photos please feel free. I'd love to learn what the experts on here see as their dogs strong points, or weak points. It isn't everyday you're able to go see beautiful dogs in person, and feel them over, and watch their movement, so I'm trying to make do with what resources are available. 

One thing I'm very curious about is if stacking a dog a certain way can help lessen the appearance of small flaws, and accentuate the positive aspects? I know when I showed ponies in conformation classes I had one pony where if I encouraged him to put a little more weight on his back end (by tapping him on the chest once & not allowing him to stretch is neck forward) I was able to make him look like he had a better neck and a shorter back (he was long backed). Are there little tricks handlers use to show off each dog as an individual? Or, is there a standard stack that a handler would use for every dog? 

I think what I'm asking with this post is, if a dog is stacked PERFECTLY would that stack work the same on another dog?


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## MillysMom

I also wanted to add all of these dogs are sooooo beautiful!


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## Pointgold

MillysMom said:


> I think that's a great idea! Anyone up for changing it to this? I know pictures don't give you the whole picture (no pun intended), but I'm sure there is still stuff to learn that visuals would really help with the learning process.
> 
> If anyone wants to comment on their own photos please feel free. I'd love to learn what the experts on here see as their dogs strong points, or weak points. It isn't everyday you're able to go see beautiful dogs in person, and feel them over, and watch their movement, so I'm trying to make do with what resources are available.
> 
> One thing I'm very curious about is if stacking a dog a certain way can help lessen the appearance of small flaws, and accentuate the positive aspects? I know when I showed ponies in conformation classes I had one pony where if I encouraged him to put a little more weight on his back end (by tapping him on the chest once & not allowing him to stretch is neck forward) I was able to make him look like he had a better neck and a shorter back (he was long backed). Are there little tricks handlers use to show off each dog as an individual? Or, is there a standard stack that a handler would use for every dog?
> 
> I think what I'm asking with this post is, if a dog is stacked PERFECTLY would that stack work the same on another dog?


Every dog is different enough that you have to consider each ones individual strengths/weaknesses to get them right. Your "style" will remain the same, but you are working to assure that each dog looks his or her best. One dog might look better baiting his head down, another slightly up. There's lots of "secrets".


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## Pointgold

MillysMom said:


> Wow, I'm proud of myself. I was going to say her rear looks a bit too straight. I am so new to this and just trying to learn.


Great eye. Zoom is so NOT straight in the rear. The photo was taken when she'd won the breed in Longmont, CO. She'd won the Mile Hi Specialty two days before. It rained like I've never seen! That ground was soaking wet - and both Sylvia and Zoom were literally sinking. (Not to mention the grass was long and growing in front of our very eyes!) 
Zoom had seen her very first squirrel at the park where the Specialty was held and was _obsessed _with them, and sure enough, the photog had A SQUIRREL toy! So, between sinking, and being a nano-second from leaping out of the stack to "GET THE SQUIRREL", this posture was the result. Even still, it's one of my favorites.  It may not be technically "perfect" or correct, but she looks showy and flashy.


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## arcane

oh many of the greats out there are MADE by the handlers ....fluff,puff, and yes "little secrets" I would love a show where they are all judged soaking wet with nothing hidden!!!!!!!!


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## Ash

Critique away. Here is mine:


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## Gwen

Here's Nyg @ 11 months.



.... and here's Razz @ 15 weeks old free stacked. 

Please be kind!


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## Pointgold

arcane said:


> oh many of the greats out there are MADE by the handlers ....fluff,puff, and yes "little secrets" I would love a show where they are all judged soaking wet with nothing hidden!!!!!!!!


I wasn't really referring to products or trimming, but rather things like simply touching a dog's belly to bring up a sagging topline, or, "pigeon toeing" a dog that tends to toe-out, not holding out a tail on a dog whose tail set is too high snd will make him look too short backed, OR, HOLDING out a high-set tail on a LONG backed dog to make it look shorter, pushing down a bit on the hips to "create" angulation in the rear, or pulling way up to make a dog look like there is neck when there is no, etc. Granted, a good judge won't be fooled by any of it.


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## HaliaGoldens

K9-Design said:


> Tee hee -- I feel the same way -- and Donna needs to stack Brooklyn so she's not looking skyward with her back feet stretched so far out!!! Then all of anything I was going to critique would go away


Haha I was going to say the exact same thing about Brooklyn. She has a gorgeous head and expression, lovely neck into shoulders. My only critique would be that her back feet are too far back, which gives the appearance of a sloping topline. Other than that, she's fantastic.


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## arcane

I think what is seriously lacking in our dogs of today is, proper layback and return of upper arm ...rears appear easy to fix


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## Pointgold

In the midwest US, fronts have improved, and rears are weak.


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## arcane

*my submission!*

If you would like to critique ...be my guest, I know what his faults are, the biggest one being I am not a professional groomer!!!!!!! LMAO!!:


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## AcesWild

Moxie "thinks" she's a golden would she be considered stacked? In these photos, the first is more recent, she's lost ALOT of weight and as you can see from the seocnd picture, she also had a hernia repaired which was very visible on her belly.


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## Ambertru

Ashley, re: Kali ...
Ok, lovely head, beautiful arch of neck and blend of shoulder, Nice topline, nice compact body, beautifully balanced girl with good front and rear. I think you should put her on a plane to visit Logan. I'll take a puppy :--heart:


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## Pointgold

arcane said:


> If you would like to critique ...be my guest, I know what his faults are, the biggest one being I am not a professional groomer!!!!!!! LMAO!!:


I really like this dog's body. He is very nicely balanced, had a strong topline, very nice angles front and rear. I'm not fond of his head. In this photo, he appears to be somewhat throaty, and I like a bigger eye. Heads are fixable in a generation, so a bitch that produces lovely heads would do well by him.


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## Pointgold

Ambertru said:


> Ashley, re: Kali ...
> Ok, lovely head, beautiful arch of neck and blend of shoulder, Nice topline, nice compact body, beautifully balanced girl with good front and rear. I think you should put her on a plane to visit Logan. I'll take a puppy :--heart:


Nah. She needs to travel abroad. Like, to TC, MI, USA


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## arcane

Pointgold said:


> I really like this dog's body. He is very nicely balanced, had a strong topline, very nice angles front and rear. I'm not fond of his head. In this photo, he appears to be somewhat throaty, and I like a bigger eye. Heads are fixable in a generation, so a bitch that produces lovely heads would do well by him.


thanks Laura your critique means alot & I feel you are bang on in your points! Now where are the girls with great heads!!!!!!!


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## JDandBigAm

Ash said:


> Critique away. Here is mine:


 Are you going to show her at the GR Specialty in BC in July? She is a real beauty!


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## SunGold

Knock yourselves out, here's Miss Diva!


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## Ash

I have planned too although the judges don't look to to good for her type. We will just hope she can hang on to her coat until then. Are you planning on attending Happy??


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## Golden Leo

arcane said:


> If you would like to critique ...be my guest, I know what his faults are, the biggest one being I am not a professional groomer!!!!!!! LMAO!!:


I like this dog also, like PG said only head is not by my taste..... But very good body.  He reminds me a lot of my Leo, they are similar type... Short in body, good bones, but yours has better rear angles 

I find it very difficult to look at dogs that are groomed and handled american way. On european dogs I can see everything in a glance but on these I have to look and look.... Specialy front angles.

Even that you can't judge the dog from photo you can still learn what is good and what is bad. It is like judging puppy and junior class- you judge what you see now, maybe that dog will be much better or worse in next 2 days or on another photo but you make opinions on what you see now.
My dog is in awful puppy phaze ( 7 months old), as soon as he gets back his rear angles I'll post his photo for jugding.

One more thing is very good when you want to learn about conformation. I go to some golden retriever club web page after club show when great judge was judging and read what they wrote about each dog. And then when I read it I usually go- oh, yes indeed that dog has that fault or it is very good on him...


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## arcane

Golden Leo said:


> I like this dog also, like PG said only head is not by my taste..... But very good body.  He reminds me a lot of my Leo, they are similar type... Short in body, good bones, but yours has better rear angles


Boston does have a love or hate type of head : It is very pleasing front on, but sometimes his profile shots do not do him justice!! lol here is a photo of him just casual in the yard ...He does need girls with strong correct planes that tend to produce the same


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## molmotta

Here's mine... Let's hear the critics... Ungroomed and free stacked...


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## molmotta

arcane said:


> Boston does have a love or hate type of head : It is very pleasing front on, but sometimes his profile shots do not do him justice!! lol here is a photo of him just casual in the yard ...He does need girls with strong correct planes that tend to produce the same


Tee hee hee... I cant complain because Rocker's mom is Boston's sista... :wavey:


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## arcane

molmotta said:


> Tee hee hee... I cant complain because Rocker's mom is Boston's sista... :wavey:


are you serious!? who is momma???


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## arcane

molmotta said:


> Tee hee hee... I cant complain because Rocker's mom is Boston's sista... :wavey:


lol a quick k9data search does reveal that Envy is mommy and yes the whole litter has similar heads ...Rocker is cute!!!


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## molmotta

arcane said:


> lol a quick k9data search does reveal that Envy is mommy and yes the whole litter has similar heads ...Rocker is cute!!!


Thanks.. he's growing like a weed - in all directions now. :

What the heck... here's Rocker in a show in Feb. He's the first dog up with a lady in red (not me) and then there he is again competing for WD against a 2+yr old. Just note that in the later part of the video, the same handler is handling another dog... 

Critics welcomed too


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## Ash

The one you posted is my fave photo of Boston. I just wanna kiss him. I also like the one in your avatar. 

Yes, I do love Crew and Logan too  They are some handsome fella's. More photos??? ....... Please.


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## arcane

Ash said:


> The one you posted is my fave photo of Boston. I just wanna kiss him. I also like the one in your avatar.


thanks Ash! that front on one does indeed bring out the "wanna just smooch your smiling face" it depicts his happy loving goofy personality well :smooch: to know him truly is to love him!! lol


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## Ash

Okay little Miss Diva.... Nice length on neck, nice neck into shoulders flow, looks like a nice solid topline and tailset. I like a little more bone and head. Looks like she has decent front. JMO and not too long in the body.


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## arcane

I agree with Ash re: Diva ...she is a pretty feminine bitch, I liked her from the get-go


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## AquaClaraCanines

I love Boston!!!  And Diva and Kali, too. Beautiful dogs.


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## SunGold

Ash said:


> Okay little Miss Diva.... Nice length on neck, nice neck into shoulders flow, looks like a nice solid topline and tailset. I like a little more bone and head. Looks like she has decent front. JMO and not too long in the body.


I agree with you - I'd like a little more stop on her, she's still a cutie, and has a pleasing expression, but gotta find her a man with some STOP!
Picture taken last week - she loves the snow!


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## arcane

SunGold said:


> I agree with you - I'd like a little more stop on her, she's still a cutie, and has a pleasing expression, but gotta find her a man with some STOP!
> Picture taken last week - she loves the snow!


see she is similar to Boston and my 2 Boston girls ...pleasing from the front, lacking in profile, If you find that boy, send me his sibling!!! LOL


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## Thor0918

You know the conformation pictures are great but, I have to say I love Diva in the snow! On the other stuff I'm a dummy.


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## BIGDAWG

Nobody has critiqued our boys yet. Oh well, I guess no news is good news!


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## AquaClaraCanines

Fidele said:


> Cedar's not for show - so no show pic (is that what STACKED means?) - how about a mental composite from the following? Can you tell how/if he measures up to golden standards? Although he's a rescue, I know he's registered - is there any way to look up a pedigree using the owner's name? I'd love to know his "background."


Send this one my way... Love that pic of him running with the ball. Classic Golden to me!


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## Selli-Belle

I think we should start new threads for each dog critiqued, that way I won't get so confused!

Carolyn


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## hotel4dogs

The Tito monster says "I may not have a lot else, but STOP I got!"




SunGold said:


> I agree with you - I'd like a little more stop on her, she's still a cutie, and has a pleasing expression, but gotta find her a man with some STOP!
> Picture taken last week - she loves the snow!


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## Thor0918

Ok now I'm the dummy again. What's stop?


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## Ash

Creeksidefrm Stings Like A Bee - if you want stop. I frequently joke he has a bubble head but in a handsome way. I love the head I got on my Taylor and the rest of the litter but Taylor stands out.


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## Pointgold

Thor0918 said:


> Ok now I'm the dummy again. What's stop?


 
The break between forehead and muzzle. In a Golden it should be pronounced, unlike, say, a Collie or Borzoi.


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## Pointgold




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## Thor0918

Oh then I think Leo has the break. My Dh says he's not a block head he's a round head. Maybe like Ash says.


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## Thor0918

This is the side a while ago.


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## Thor0918

This is from the front


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## Ash

http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=220098

There is the link for those who don't know how to get there. This is a dog IMO with a great stop.


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## Thor0918

I do like the look too!


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## goldengirls550

Ash said:


> http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=220098
> 
> There is the link for those who don't know how to get there. This is a dog IMO with a great stop.


Yep Taylor did get Buzz's head! They are both gorgeous dogs. : )

I can't wait to see what little Taylor does, Ash.

I will post some pics as my new show "project" grows up.


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## SunGold

Ash said:


> Creeksidefrm Stings Like A Bee - if you want stop. I frequently joke he has a bubble head but in a handsome way. I love the head I got on my Taylor and the rest of the litter but Taylor stands out.


I've been eyeing him for a while...


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## Ash

Zoom, I think she is fluid and substantial bitch. That is my pet peeve when you look at a male and think wellllllll, he would be gorgeous if he was a bitch. You can see her condition even though its a photo and she has a lovely head!


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## arcane

I would like to see another of Zoom, a different angle, I have a photo of Boston winning his first 5 pt major, BPIG & Group 3 win, where he is ready to vault after the toy, and its HORRID! he looks to have No front and very upright shoulders ....No one shall ever see that photo lmao!!!!!!!!


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## Ash

LOL Heather I think we all have those ugo shots. 

Here is another - knock yourselves out!


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## Shalva

here is my Emmett at 13 mos. with a great deal of maturing left to do..... I know that the stack makes him look like he has a stovepipe for a neck but he was practicing .... and actually has quite a nice neck into shoulders


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## peeps

Here's one I would be interested to hear about.


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## Ash

Ok Peeps, looks like a nice stop, nice topline, good bone, nice front, good tailset. Lacking a some backend but hopefully that will come. It would be nice to have a headshot! Looks like he has a great headpiece.


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## Ash

Shalva said:


> here is my Emmett at 13 mos. with a great deal of maturing left to do..... I know that the stack makes him look like he has a stovepipe for a neck but he was practicing .... and actually has quite a nice neck into shoulders


Looks like he has smokin' pigment, nice compact body, good front and topline, nice neck into shoulders. Yes, he needs maturing. This is the worst time to look at a male. Very cute.


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## arcane

I don't want to comment on the young ones as for many they are awful times of growth. I find it difficult when the dog is looking up like that as it distorts the neck into shoulder and they look to be too abrupt or ewe necked  a bad pic can otherwise wreck a good dog!


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## SunGold

Love to hear thoughts on my boy Eclipse if anyone is interested! I like this thread - I always love to get others opinions!


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## SunGold

arcane said:


> I don't want to comment on the young ones as for many they are awful times of growth.


I agree with you, especially boys!


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## JDandBigAm

SunGold said:


> Love to hear thoughts on my boy Eclipse if anyone is interested! I like this thread - I always love to get others opinions!


 I am a beginner but would love to give a go at critiqueing. You pros out there please tell me where I'm right and wrong. Eclipse has a nice head, neck, topline, and rear assembly. He does appear in the pictures to be a wee bit short in body length to height. The second picture of him moving looks like he could be sidewinding. Maybe due to body ratio or his nicely angulated rear. He sure is a beauty.


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## Ash

I will give Eclipse a go...... Nice neck into shoulders and topline. I like his front end and tail set. He looks like he has a rather solid topline on the move. He may have a bit of a big ear (in the photo) JMO and a prefer a little more bend of stiffle. I think he is a nice moderate boy. He looks like he has great pigment and I like that he carries his tail in a nice normal fashion (anyone that knows me knows I am picky when it comes to tail carriage. I like him!


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## SunGold

Happy said:


> I am a beginner but would love to give a go at critiqueing. You pros out there please tell me where I'm right and wrong. Eclipse has a nice head, neck, topline, and rear assembly. He does appear in the pictures to be a wee bit short in body length to height. The second picture of him moving looks like he could be sidewinding. Maybe due to body ratio or his nicely angulated rear. He sure is a beauty.


Hit the nail on the head - he is a bit short.


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## SunGold

Ash said:


> I will give Eclipse a go...... Nice neck into shoulders and topline. I like his front end and tail set. He looks like he has a rather solid topline on the move. He may have a bit of a big ear (in the photo) JMO and a prefer a little more bend of stiffle. I think he is a nice moderate boy. He looks like he has great pigment and I like that he carries his tail in a nice normal fashion (anyone that knows me knows I am picky when it comes to tail carriage. I like him!


Yup, his ears are large - I don't personally mind them because I don't think it takes away from his pleasing expression.  You should have seen him during that awkward stage - we thought he was going to take flight! :


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