# Concerns about Ichthyosis...



## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Since I saw this mentioned on another thread, (never knew about it before ), I'm pretty sure that it's what Chance has. I have fought his flaking for years and asked many vets about it but none of them ever mentioned this. Here's some pictures of his coat/skin:







This pic is what I took off the slicker brush after brushing a very small section of the feathering on his back leg:



My regimen with him is brushing twice a day, he gets 2 Aller G-3 capsules daily, (2,000/mg ea.), I bathe him once a week in either Sebolux or Dermal-Soothe shampoos and he gets sprayed with Humilac after I brush him, (maybe not every time but at least 4-5 times a week). 

None of this seems to help...the Dermal-Soothe seemed to help better than the Sebolux, but I get the same amount of flaking every time I brush him. That picture that shows the flakes from the slicker is only a fraction of what comes off of him every day.

Some of the sites say that it doesn't itch, but he scratches and bites at the areas that have more flaking so maybe it affects him that way. Instead of going to his regular vet, (I've been having "issues" with the clinic), I'm debating whether I should just go to the specialty clinic we have in my area. They have a dermatologist there that's supposed to be really good.

Is this a condition that can develop into something more serious or does it just affect the skin? I stayed up last night looking at sites and the first thing I did when I woke up this morning is more research. But they don't say if it gets worse, (Chance's has seemed to get worse), or if it could develop into something else. Can you tell I'm worried?


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Wow, I can't believe those photos! If it is ichtyosis, our client has made huge strides by getting the right DX and treatment. They just said today they are easing off to one bath per week now.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

The Clinical and Morphologic Features of Nonepidermolytic Ichthyosis in the Golden Retriever

This is a pretty interesting scientific article, although I think you'd mostly be interested in the introduction and then the last couple of paragraphs in the conclusion. There's not much offered in the way of treatment.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1748-5827.2009.00730.x/abstract

This is an excellent article as well, but I had to go through LSU's library to get it. If you want me to email it to you, PM me and I'll send it off your way.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Ljilly28 said:


> Wow, I can't believe those photos! If it is ichtyosis, our client has made huge strides by getting the right DX and treatment. They just said today they are easing off to one bath per week now.


Yeah, it's bad...and he only has flaking where his skin is dark, on his belly, groin, arm pits, (do dogs have armpits? ), on his chest and on the back of his legs. Where his skin is pink, (on his back, head, around his ears), no flakes. It's bizarre.


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## 3goldens (Nov 7, 2011)

I have never heard of this thanks for bringing it up


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Wow, I've not heard of this either. I'm sorry you are dealing with this. I don't know if this will help the ichthyosis or not, but for generalized itching and scratching, we've had some luck using the Allerderm Spot on treatments by Virbac. It's full of essential fatty acids and ceramides. Here is a link to the brochure: http://www.virbacvet.com/Libraries/PDFs/9025_Allerderm_Spot-On_Detailer5OCT09.sflb.ashx
It supposedly rebuilds damaged epidermal layers of the skin.
Good luck in finding more information and some relief.


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## Penny and Barneys Mum (Jan 17, 2012)

I know this is an old thread but this is exactly what our male golden has. He had it when he was a pup and it cleared up for around 10 years and it is back and bad. It only flakes on the black skin areas too, not the pink areas. Barn does not seem bothered by it though, his doesn't seem to itch him. He did have some biopsies taken when he was a pup and nothing showed up, so it is a bit of a mystery.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Since I took those pictures, Chance's flaking has gotten worse. Before you couldn't see the flakes just looking at him, you'd have to part his hair. Now, they're really easy to see, they're on the top of his coat, also.  I still brush him twice a day and bathe him once a week. I tried bathing every other week and brushing only once a day to see if maybe the frequent bathing and brushing was contributing to more flakes, but then it was even worse.

I'm trying a new shampoo, Pyoben, today. Chance is kind of the guinea pig for his vet to try out different shampoos/conditioners that he gets samples of. If Chance does well with them, he'll carry them in his clinic. It's a good deal for me because I get them free. :dblthumb2


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I use Pyoben and I find it dries the skin out causing more flaking on mine (though mines not anywhere near as bad as your guy). 

Have you ever had him tested for Autoimmune Thyroiditis? That can cause blackening of the skin as well as a host of other issues. My friends Golden has really bad flaking of the skin and she has had luck using a human shampoo called Dennorex. Not sure whats in it, but she loves the stuff buys in in bulk


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## golden_eclipse (Apr 1, 2011)

Have you done a DNA test to confirm it is Ichthyosis? It could be something different with a completely different treatment. Just a thought.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

A1Malinois said:


> Have you ever had him tested for Autoimmune Thyroiditis? That can cause blackening of the skin as well as a host of other issues.


Chance has black skin anyway. That's his normal coloring. 



kdowningxc said:


> Have you done a DNA test to confirm it is Ichthyosis? It could be something different with a completely different treatment.


Well, I've been out of work for almost 2 years, so I have to pick my battles, so to speak, concerning what needs to be done medically for my two. As soon as I find a job, the DNA test will be done.


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## golden_eclipse (Apr 1, 2011)

It is a very expensive test, I hear ya. Hence why a lot of breeders have yet to do the test on all of their breeding dogs, considering there are three other tests for eye diseases too, it probably adds up to nearly $600 for the DNA tests for each dog...


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## Penny and Barneys Mum (Jan 17, 2012)

Thanks everyone, sorry to hear Chance has gotten worse. Barney has many, many flakes visible just to look at him and they are all over the house. He has got really bad in the last few weeks. We brush him and get a huge pile of black flakes  

He has not been DNA tested. He was biopsied many years ago in five places down the side of his body and put on steroid tablets and a shampoo which we think from memory, had some kind of steroid in it (stunk really, really horrible, beyond words horrible) He was never given a diagnosis other than some kind of skin problem. This was a specialist vet we had to travel to, not your usual vet. We were sent there by a previous vets surgery as well, not our current vet. 

No smell, no scratching, just flaking of the black skin. The black skin is the only skin that flakes. Some of the flakes are 5mm in size, others are quite small, he has more large flakes though. 

I read on another thread that Nutrogena have a T Gell medicated shampoo for people, someone said that can help this condition. The black shampoo not the regular. Don't know if it works, we will get some and try, don't know if you can get it outside the UK or not. 

Our vet didn't seem concerned about it because barns not itching or anything, nor smelling. I will mention it when he goes back to the vets on Wednesday for his stitches out.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

kwhit said:


> Chance has black skin anyway. That's his normal coloring.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I've been out of work for almost 2 years, so I have to pick my battles, so to speak, concerning what needs to be done medically for my two. As soon as I find a job, the DNA test will be done.


I to have to pick my battles wisely. Sadly, there will still be those people who think if you cant do every test under the sun you shouldnt have a dog. Mine needs an allergy test, but I dont have the money. What can ya do



Penny and Barneys Mum said:


> Thanks everyone, sorry to hear Chance has gotten worse. Barney has many, many flakes visible just to look at him and they are all over the house. He has got really bad in the last few weeks. We brush him and get a huge pile of black flakes
> 
> He has not been DNA tested. He was biopsied many years ago in five places down the side of his body and put on steroid tablets and a shampoo which we think from memory, had some kind of steroid in it (stunk really, really horrible, beyond words horrible) He was never given a diagnosis other than some kind of skin problem. This was a specialist vet we had to travel to, not your usual vet. We were sent there by a previous vets surgery as well, not our current vet.
> 
> ...


T-Gel has the same ingredient as Dennorex. Coal tar, Dennorex just has a couple more added ingredients which is why my friend prefers that one


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## Penny and Barneys Mum (Jan 17, 2012)

A1Malinois said:


> T-Gel has the same ingredient as Dennorex. Coal tar, Dennorex just has a couple more added ingredients which is why my friend prefers that one


That's interesting, I'm doing to google the dennorex now.

Regards tests, we too find it hard with all the vets bills. This year we've spent all our savings on our two, the bills have been never ending, both of them have been in and out of the vets  We paid a fortune to have barn checked with the skin specialist years ago, they didn't even come up with anything at the end of it. Not easy when all the bills come at once I know


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

If money is an issue (isn't it always?) I would probably just *assume* it's ichthyosis and treat it accordingly, since the treatments are pretty harmless. Just fish oil supplements and medicated shampoo. Much better than treating allergies!


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Khwit*

Khwit

So very sorry for all Chance is going through and I know how it is being out of work.
I've been out of work for three years!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

here's the response on fish oil:

"Antagene has explained that the fish oils can help because ICT is a problem with the lipid process ... so adding oils can help. However, it is not certain that this will help all dogs, but it might help some. So, you'll probably be using trial-and-error to find out what dosage works for each individual dog.

I'm not certain, but I think that these fish oils are also blood thinners. If so, then if you have a surgical procedure scheduled for such a dog, you may want to discontinue the oils for a period of time prior to surgery or teeth cleaning. Ask your vet about this..."


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