# Alpine White Golden Retrievers



## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

There is no such thing as a white Golden. :no:

Here's a good place to start your search:

http://www.englishgoldens.net/breeders.htm


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

TahoeHines said:


> Has anyone heard of or purchased their puppy from Alpine White Golden Retrievers in Red Bluff, CA? Golden Retriever Puppies ca
> 
> I've read on this website to avoid any breeder claiming they specialize in a specific type or color or english cream. From what I can tell they do not, I've asked them what is behind the name (hope to hear back soon, just inquired today).....


Did you actually read the page you linked for us? The opening lines make reference to "white" and "English creme" - *English Cream and American Golden Retrievers White Goldens* ... "SPECIALIZING IN EXQUISITE ENGLISH CREAMS!" ....We have large facilities such as large runs and pens to contain our lovable dogs when they are not in the house with us. ....*Puppies selling fast*.....*.Before using PayPal to make a deposit*, you must call or email to verify puppy availability Welcome to Alpine White Golden Retrievers!

... *We specialize in European type English cream Golden Retriever puppies*"

This is a puppy farm using all kinds of marketing ploys to sell their puppies as a business. Do a search of our forum for this breeder (search feature is at the top of the page - they are well known) They make this claim: "All of our breeding dogs are OFA hip, heart, and CERF eye certified." But I just went to OFA to search for the dam of the current litter offered and what do you know, No OFA listing. You can search OFA and K9data for "Alpine White" owned by these people and find dogs bred by these people without proper clearances. 

Reputable breeders do not sell puppies based on the color of the coat. You are going to have to expand your search area and fly to another area of the country or to Canada to find a light colored dog from a really good breeder who does clearances. 

Here are some links on previous threads you may find informative:

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...py/443737-help-english-cream-breeders-ny.html

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...3-english-golden-puppy-breeders-nc-sc-va.html

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...ver-breeder-puppy/453097-icewind-goldens.html


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## TahoeHines (Apr 19, 2017)

Thanks nolefan for your input and help. To answer your question, yes I did review the website and hence why I had questions and wanted additional opinion on whether I should be concerned about certain things (PayPal, pens, the "white" and "alpine" claims). Not everyone here is as experienced in searching for a breeder as others so the help is appreciated. 

In an email response I was told the parents of the current litter (Chaika and Garik) have their clearances and we'd receive those in the "puppy pack" and she has originals for us to see if we wish. The fact that they're not on the website and I cannot see anything on OFA or k9data halted me for obvious reasons (again, wanted to confirm I was correct). The "alpine" reference has nothing to do with the coat color according to the breeder, but she chose the name based on where she grew up. 

Sure the top english cream breeders may be in other parts of the country but I cannot imagine there are NO respectable breeders in northern CA (or even SF/LA areas). 

Again, I appreciate your help. This is our first time searching for a breeder.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Keep looking- and don't fall for the 'we will give you copies in the puppy packs' story- because by then you will be invested heart and pocketbook- and will probably not give the packs more than a cursory look. 

Most every litter of Goldens has light colored puppies in it along with a darker one or two. Color is just cosmetic, you want the bones below the coat to be correct and the dog to have a predictable temperament (many of these type breeders unfortunately import pregnant bitches from eastern Euro countries) and whose owners really KNOW the girls and what will improve them. None of the hype (less cancer, calmer temperament, etc) are true and some are actually the opposite of the truth.


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## TahoeHines (Apr 19, 2017)

Thanks Prism Goldens, we will keep looking! We've also spoken with Classic Heritage and West Coast Cream Goldens. We visited Classic Heritage and a few things concerned me: 1. the amount of dogs they breed and 2. the lack of communication post puppy pick-up that several others on this forum had with the breeder. Classic Heritage is also relatively expensive ($3,500) but to be honest if we felt comfortable with the breeder and all checked out I would still be willing to pay that (rather than spending the money to fly elsewhere). 

Thanks for all your help!


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

TahoeHines said:


> Sure the top english cream breeders may be in other parts of the country but I cannot imagine there are NO respectable breeders in northern CA (or even SF/LA areas).
> 
> Again, I appreciate your help. This is our first time searching for a breeder.


The problem with extreme color breeders is they are almost always in it for the money. They don't compete in any competitive venues, so claiming health is important is a marketing ploy and not an essential. 

If you choose to go this route and continue to search by the marketing ploy term "English Cream" you will find less than reputable breeders. You will pay more for color and usually get much less in the form of health certifications. Many times the prices asked by color breeders are 2-4 times what you should expect to pay based on cakes offered. It is kind of like walking on to a car lot and saying I want a blue sedan and the deelwr saying "Well I have a used blue Kia or a new grey Lexus. They are the same price". Sure both a sedans and fulfill the same basic function but the difference should be reflected in a price difference. 

Color marketing breeders with spotty health certifications are exactly what you are finding here. Classic Heritage is not likely to have full certifications. As an example their current stud dog only has a heart certification on OFA. West Cost has missing or deficient heart certifications and missing or expired eye certifications. At the astronomical prices they ask, I would experience full and easily verifiable health certifications. 

At $2000-2500 you can get a puppy from parents with fully verifiable complete health certifications, plus generations of health certifications behind them and competitive accomplishments that show the parents are well made, structurally correct and/or biddable if you don't make pale color you main priority. . 

Here are some resources in how to verify health certification claims. 
Attached Thumbnails


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## Sandy22 (Mar 12, 2016)

Please take the advice of the folks on this board. They have a wealth of information to share. I've had goldens all my life, but never had to find a reputable breeder for myself, as my parents always took care of that. When it was time to find a breeder on my own, I took the advice of the amazing posters on this board, and couldn't be happier with the puppy I found with their help. Here is the thread I started last year. Post #10 has a great list to help start your search. Don't get caught up on color. Great dogs come in all shades. Good luck!

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...uppy/404714-northern-california-breeders.html


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

TahoeHines said:


> Thanks nolefan for your input and help. To answer your question, yes I did review the website and hence why I had questions and wanted additional opinion on whether I should be concerned about certain things (PayPal, pens, the "white" and "alpine" claims). Not everyone here is as experienced in searching for a breeder as others so the help is appreciated. .....
> 
> Sure the top english cream breeders may be in other parts of the country but I cannot imagine there are NO respectable breeders in northern CA (or even SF/LA areas).
> 
> Again, I appreciate your help. This is our first time searching for a breeder.


I apologize for coming across in such an impatient manner. We have so much information on this website regarding the pitfalls of choosing a breeder based solely on color of the dog that I do get a little sideways sometimes when someone says they understand that a breeder shouldn't be placing a lot of emphasis on "cream" color marketing but then appears not to be applying it in real time. The Alpine folks are just classic violators. It's frustrating.

Did you have a chance to read through the links I attached to the bottom of my post? The explanations given in them are pretty thorough. By placing color at the top of your list of requirements for a breeder you're setting a very strong filter on your search. 

Truly reputable people compete in some way with their dogs. They just do, they're not sitting at home on their acreage selling over priced white puppies to unsuspecting people. They aren't farming puppies like livestock. It's very easy to say that a dog has a good temperament if the dog isn't ever leaving the house. Dogs that are anxious or easily upset can be ok at home and then be completely different out in the world. That doesn't translate well to a pet that you'd like to take to kid's soccer games, the lake to visit friends on the weekend, Saturday morning walks to get coffee etc. You want your puppy to be from a breeder who does things with their dogs to prove that they have stable temperaments. 

Because so many people are simply raising light colored Goldens to sell for profit, it is very difficult to find hobby breeders. You may very well find a reputable breeder in your region who competes in obedience or field work with light colored Goldens but they are very hard to find. Here is a link to a breeder website that would be more in line with what you are looking for: https://www.kernowgoldens.com/about-us

Notice there is no mention of Paypal, 'world champion bloodlines", Cream or white or high tech, top notch "facilities" or kennels, no high pressure sales terms like "puppies selling fast" etc.. The breeder uses most of the space on the site talking about what activities she competes in with her dogs. 

Here is a link to a long time breeder where you can see that the breeder favors lighter colored dogs but you can see that the emphasis is more on the form and function of the dog rather than the color: Golden Retriever Puppies | Ontario | Kyon Kennels Again, lots of talk about competing with their dogs.

Here's a place to check where you'll find attention placed on the whole dog, rather than just the color of the coat: CAPTAIN ? Chuckanut Retrievers Ask them for a referral if they don't have a litter planned soon. You can find heavier boned dogs with lighter colored coats, it just takes more research.


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## TahoeHines (Apr 19, 2017)

Thank you all very much for your help and I apologize for coming off uneducated about selecting a breeder that focuses solely on color. The truth is we love goldens off all shades but really enjoyed the blockier heads/bigger bones. Taking the advice of everyone here we're now simply looking for a breeder in the NorCal or PacNW area. If they happen to have heavier boned dogs with lighter colors all the better but we won't let that determine our search. 

nolefan I plan to call Chuckanut soon to introduce myself and begin a conversation with them. Thanks for pointing out the website differences. Makes complete sense. 

I've emailed some reps from the NorCal GR club to get their thoughts on any referrals in the area.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

I know someone from our club has some nice lighter colored male pups ready to go now and there may be a few pups available soon from other breeders. Contact the breeder referral for the Pacific Rim Golden Retriever club PRGRCO.com


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

TahoeHines said:


> The truth is we love goldens off all shades but really enjoyed the blockier heads/bigger bones. Taking the advice of everyone here we're now simply looking for a breeder in the NorCal or PacNW area.
> If they happen to have heavier boned dogs with lighter colors all the better but we won't let that determine our search.


You may want to attend a dog show. It seems to be a common misconception that American dogs are all fine boned with narrow heads. Some are, especially in field trial lines but you may be very pleasantly surprised that most US show little news have nice heads and quite a bit of substance. 

I have 2 American show girls and an Italian import. Guess who has the least bone and head substance? My Italian. I love what she is and she is not weedy but lacking bone substance is not uncommon in European show lines when compared to US show lines. Heads are a different style but most American show looks be heads will have as much and sometimes more substance.

Get out to a show, take a look in the ring and see if you perception of American dogs holds true.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Tahoehines, thanks for updating us on your progress. I hope you will come back and let us know how things are going, eventually I hope you'll be here introducing us to your knew puppy and sharing photos. I have had a Golden in my home for 20 years but learned the most from the experienced folks I've met through this forum. The education you can get here with your eyes open is top notch. I hope you'll take LJack's suggestion and maybe venture out to a show.


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## wyoming golden (May 20, 2017)

*English Creme pups*

You should not apologize for wanting information on selecting a breeder! I looked for several months on a website Golden Retrievers of Montana - they include bordering states. 

Here is a breeder where I am getting a pup. I have been sent the health certs for both the mom and dad for heart, eye, hips and elbows. The males are $1,500, the female $1,650 - breeding rights are more, but many breeders will not sell them. Mallory will answer any questions you have, describes the temperament of each pup. The pups are in Idaho Falls, Idaho. Both parents are from Serbia.

Look on facebook on Osgood Acres Golden Retrievers. They have posted pictures of each pup, and videos. You choose your pup when they are six weeks old, and they keep them until eight weeks. These pups are four weeks on May 23. Happy to help if you have more questions.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Osgood Acres with dogs from Serbia and selling full breeding rights on the puppies they let you pick out at 6 weeks old? Why would this breeder be selling puppies for different prices based on sex? None of this is typical of a reputable hobby breeder and they're not competing with these dogs. At first glance, this doesn't appear to be a great breeder. What are the registered names of the parents of this litter you're suggesting so we can verify on OFA? Since I find no mention of them on k9data and no mention on the page of the dogs registered names I would be surprised if we found OFA clearances on both parents.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Pedigree: Serbian Ch Tiara's HeartsofGold Rock My World
Pedigree: Nalimana Magic Carnelian

Well, this breeder has two dogs on k9data- one of them claims foreign clearances, the other claims excellent prelims but neither are on OFA.
OP- I would not trust this any further than I could throw it. And who sells their CH bitches if the ch took any effort to acquire? I dk Serbia dog shows but imagine it's not much if they sold her...if it is truly an earned title. These FB breeders are really ____________________. (irritating, fly by night, difficult to verify, fill in the blank)

mallory marshall also input this dog to the k9database- http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=825923 not sure if it was an idle thing or if (hope not-he is underaged) it is the stud dog and she was bred before flying her to the US. Wyoming Golden, you could tell us in your second post.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

One important thing to know...if a dog gets a final (done after the dog is 24 months and the only one that is a clearance (meaning any x-rays taken before a dog is 24 months old called a prelim)) hip or elbow clearance (meaning it passed) that ALWAYS gets published on the OFA website. That means if a breeder claims their dog has an OFA clearance for hips or elbows but you can't find that dog listed on the OFA website as having that clearance, the breeder is not telling the truth. There are very few reasons why this would not be the case. The OFA may have just given the clearance and it is not yet entered on the website, but if puppies have been born that would mean that the parent was bred before it had the clearance. There also could be a spelling issue, but unless the breeder can direct you to a file on the OFA website showing the dog has hip and elbow clearances, they don't


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## TahoeHines (Apr 19, 2017)

ArchersMom said:


> I know someone from our club has some nice lighter colored male pups ready to go now and there may be a few pups available soon from other breeders. Contact the breeder referral for the Pacific Rim Golden Retriever club PRGRCO.com


Thank you ArchersMom and all others for your continued help. I reached out to Kathy at the PRGRC who suggested I reach out to Debbie Barry at Sunshine Goldens in OR. I emailed Debbie who forwarded my information onto Chris Crawford from Takatia Golden Retrievers. Chris does in fact have 2 males from a litter born on St. Patty's Day so currently 9 weeks old. I explained our very active lifestyle in the email so both Debbie and Chris responded relatively quickly as Chris feels one of the boys might be a good fit for our lifestyle. There were 10 in the litter. She said she had them graded by Pam Hastings (is that common) and 9/10 were show quality, including the 2 males that remain. She socialized them following the "Rule of 7" which was good to hear about. 

We had a 30 min call yesterday with Chris and immediately I could tell the difference between her and other previous breeders we spoke with (such as Alpine White or Classic Heritage). I had the puppy buyers checklist questions ready to go but she answered most of them without me even asking. Chris is a vet in Salem, OR and this is her 2nd litter (first also from bitch Lexie). 

Here is the information on the parents:
Sire: "Bounce" - Orthopedic Foundation for Animals
Dam: "Lexie" - Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

Is there any need to be concerned about the Mar 3 2016 Eye testing? Looks like she was "normal" again a month later. Also, I see on K9data that the sire was tested normal for eyes on 1/9/17 but I don't see the clearance on OFA (Pedigree: Crangold Sunshine's Skiing Cross Country). Any concern there? 

We plan to follow up with Chris next week after providing her more information. Salem is about a 9 hour drive from Truckee, is that a concern when bringing a puppy home (safer to fly it home?). Any and all comments/thoughts would be appreciated before we take the next steps. Thank you all again.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Did you ask the breeder about Lexie's eyes? Hopefully Prism or Tahnee will see this and have some input, I'm not knowledgeable enough about eyes to answer. Ask to see the sire's eye clearance. It apparently wasn't submitted to OFA and by now it should have been. This is a very legitimate concern and as long as you are respectful, the breeder should understand and be very forthcoming. You really need to see it. I wouldn't purchase a puppy without it. Eye issues in Goldens are way too serious. 

The trip is up to you. A puppy should travel fine, you'll want a crate though. Probably going to be too big to fly under the seat at that age.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm guessing you meant she had the litter evaluated by "Pat Hastings" who is a well known expert in dog structure and in what traits to look at in puppies in determining which ones should grow into correct physical form for conformation showing and performance. The correct structure is important for more than just good looks, it's necessary first and foremost so that the dog is able to physically perform the job it was bred for without breaking down.

You might ask questions about why the litter is being bred and why she chose the sire etc. Is she keeping a puppy, what is her hobby with her dogs? The parents of this litter have no titles listed on k9 data to give an indication of why she's wanting to produce puppies from them. This is not necessarily a problem, there may be other reasons she's breeding, certainly there is a market for nice pets with health clearances. This would not be a breeding you would expect to pay above market value for a pet puppy for. Not sure what that would be in your area, but be sure you know what breeders in your region set as a price for pet puppies from parents with clearances but not a lot of titles. This would be something that people at the Golden clubs in your region could probably give you a ballpark range on.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Ask to see a copy of the eye cert for the sire, it's not on OFA but I'm sure he has it. Both Debbie and Chris compete in conformation, and I think both do obedience as well. Lexie has her RN. Bounce is a conformation dog and multiple best in sweeps winner according to k9data.


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## TahoeHines (Apr 19, 2017)

Thanks again for all your help. This weekend we also visited Pam with Delta Golden Retrievers in Wilton, CA. She has a litter of 8 at 5 weeks old right now. Sire is Punch from Emberain Golden Retrievers. We enjoyed our visit with Pam and enjoyed seeing Ayla in person as well as the pups. She said she only has a litter every few years. 

Below are the clearance links for both Ayla and Punch. 

Ayla: Orthopedic Foundation for Animals
Punch: Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

Has anyone had any experiences with Delta or Emberain? Thanks in advance.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I love Ayla's name (and wish the author of the books would write another in the Clan series and leave out all the sex in this one)! It looks like all is in order w this litter, they are surely darling puppies!


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## TahoeHines (Apr 19, 2017)

Thanks Prism Goldens. We feel good about Pam and Ayla & Punch's litter. Both Ayla and Punch are absolutely gorgeous dogs! We went ahead and put our deposit down last night.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

TahoeHines said:


> Thanks Prism Goldens. We feel good about Pam and Ayla & Punch's litter. Both Ayla and Punch are absolutely gorgeous dogs! We went ahead and put our deposit down last night.


That's awesome! Emberain is a well known producer of amazing performance dogs. Go do a google search or a k9data search on the name Emberain Golden retrievers. Punch has a pedigree that reads like performance and field royalty. Your puppy's grandsire is 'Ted' - a dog I've had a crush on for years. Coppertop's Live Wire

You must have impressed the breeder if she's letting you have one of these special puppies. If you don't have one lined up already, I hope you will ask her to help you find a great obedience club in your area so you can get involved with classes and training. With some work on your part, your puppy will easily be the star of his class. I really hope you will come back and introduce your puppy and share photos, I can't wait to hear what you do with him.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

There is a DVD called "Sound Beginnings" it is by "Jackie Mertens". See if you can find one used if you can. You'll have to buy it on line either way. It is an awesome way start teaching a puppy the foundation for retrieving. Your puppy will most likely be bird crazy and retrieving will be an awesome way to get him proper exercise. The dvd is worth every penny if you will work with your puppy. (Can you tell I'm really excited for you??)


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## TahoeHines (Apr 19, 2017)

nolefan said:


> That's awesome! Emberain is a well known producer of amazing performance dogs. Go do a google search or a k9data search on the name Emberain Golden retrievers. Punch has a pedigree that reads like performance and field royalty. Your puppy's grandsire is 'Ted' - a dog I've had a crush on for years. Coppertop's Live Wire
> 
> You must have impressed the breeder if she's letting you have one of these special puppies. If you don't have one lined up already, I hope you will ask her to help you find a great obedience club in your area so you can get involved with classes and training. With some work on your part, your puppy will easily be the star of his class. I really hope you will come back and introduce your puppy and share photos, I can't wait to hear what you do with him.





nolefan said:


> There is a DVD called "Sound Beginnings" it is by "Jackie Mertens". See if you can find one used if you can. You'll have to buy it on line either way. It is an awesome way start teaching a puppy the foundation for retrieving. Your puppy will most likely be bird crazy and retrieving will be an awesome way to get him proper exercise. The dvd is worth every penny if you will work with your puppy. (Can you tell I'm really excited for you??)


Haha thank you Nolefan! We're quite excited as well. Looking through the line, there are many handsome boys and lovely girls. Living in Tahoe we expect to be very active w/ our dog once he/she gets to the right age. I went ahead and ordered "Sound Beginnings" - thanks for that recommendation! There is so much information out there (books, DVDs, etc.) it's a bit overwhelming so recommendations are also helpful. Pam from Delta said she likes Ian Dunbar's books. I'm reading through "The Art of Raising a Puppy" now. 

Thanks for all your help!


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Free Ian Dunbar book:

BEFORE You Get Your Puppy | Dog Star Daily

Great resource for Ian Dunbar books and lectures:

Dog Star Daily |


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## TahoeHines (Apr 19, 2017)

kwhit said:


> Free Ian Dunbar book:
> 
> BEFORE You Get Your Puppy | Dog Star Daily
> 
> ...


Thanks kwhit!


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Smart to do tons of reading now before the puppy gets home, you won't have time later  Dr. Ian Dunbar is a guru, his books are great, Before and After Getting your Puppy is updated and has great info. We have plenty of other books and things to recommend, just let us know when you want more info


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## durfita (Jun 9, 2017)

Tahoe, did you ever find a breeder? I am completely disinterested in the white vs. red golden conversation or akc papers since I think both are a bunch of crapola. I have had 5 goldens in my life, hunting stock, champion show dogs, and field trial champion lines. These dogs were from American champion lines and as such suffered from all of the genetic inbreeding issues of goldens - cancer and skin issues. I am not interested in snooty papers, this does not make for the best dog.

I am seeking a breeder who uses European or Canadian dogs that do not suffer like the American dogs. I don't care about color, champion lines, size, etc. - I want a dog that is overall healthy. End of story. To anyone reading this, you can save your lectures on no one can guarantee the health of a dog, blah blah blah. I get it. Tahoe, I am located in Northern CA too and would like to visit the kennels and meet the parents and the pups. Did anyone give you an actual answer to your question? Thank you for your time!


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

I would suggest looking north of the boarder to a long established program. The snooty papers will probably be part of the deal even if they don't matter to you, it is how you know the dogs a purebred and how breeders can track thier dogs, the lineage and health testing. 

I would be hesitant to send you to any of the English cream breeders in that area because most simply import what ever they can get from European commercial Kennels. They will not know if those lines have the issues more commonly seen in the European lines like epilepsy, neurological issues, ectopic ureter and the cancers like Osteo and Lymphoma these lines present. Not knowing is not the same as not having, hence the suggestion of a well established program. 

Off the top of my head: 
Tashora 
Chuckanut 

Farther afield:
Kingsgold/Timberbash
Timberee


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

durfita said:


> Tahoe, did you ever find a breeder? I am completely disinterested in the white vs. red golden conversation or akc papers since I think both are a bunch of crapola. I have had 5 goldens in my life, hunting stock, champion show dogs, and field trial champion lines. These dogs were from American champion lines and as such suffered from all of the genetic inbreeding issues of goldens - cancer and skin issues. I am not interested in snooty papers, this does not make for the best dog.
> 
> I am seeking a breeder who uses European or Canadian dogs that do not suffer like the American dogs. I don't care about color, champion lines, size, etc. - I want a dog that is overall healthy. End of story. To anyone reading this, you can save your lectures on no one can guarantee the health of a dog, blah blah blah. I get it. Tahoe, I am located in Northern CA too and would like to visit the kennels and meet the parents and the pups. Did anyone give you an actual answer to your question? Thank you for your time!


You should probably head north of the border if you are looking for a European pedigree- the 'cream' dog breeders in the US have often imported young adults from eastern euro countries, with clearances done at 4-12 months- far earlier than acceptable here. That, or imported in whelp bitches. 

If you have had 5 Goldens and they have all had skin issues I would suspect something environmental myself. I have probably had 30 Goldens over the last 40 years and I have had exactly ONE hotspot. Cancer will happen to any dog that lives long enough sadly- whether his genetics hail from here or there. Early cancer is a different thing. Study of the pedigrees you seem to feel disdain for can help dodge that bullet in cases where COD is listed on k9data. 

I'd tone down the 'blah blah' theme when you contact breeders- a good breeder is very proud of their pedigrees and accomplishments and someone who clearly isn't a fan of that might not be considered for a nice litter because it comes off abrasive and no one wants to start a relationship that seems doomed from the start. JMO.


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## TahoeHines (Apr 19, 2017)

durfita said:


> Tahoe, did you ever find a breeder? I am completely disinterested in the white vs. red golden conversation or akc papers since I think both are a bunch of crapola. I have had 5 goldens in my life, hunting stock, champion show dogs, and field trial champion lines. These dogs were from American champion lines and as such suffered from all of the genetic inbreeding issues of goldens - cancer and skin issues. I am not interested in snooty papers, this does not make for the best dog.
> 
> I am seeking a breeder who uses European or Canadian dogs that do not suffer like the American dogs. I don't care about color, champion lines, size, etc. - I want a dog that is overall healthy. End of story. To anyone reading this, you can save your lectures on no one can guarantee the health of a dog, blah blah blah. I get it. Tahoe, I am located in Northern CA too and would like to visit the kennels and meet the parents and the pups. Did anyone give you an actual answer to your question? Thank you for your time!


I did find a breeder and we're picking up our 8-week old tomorrow. We went with Delta Golden Retrievers in Wilton, CA. Not sure I can be of much help but it sounds like Prism and Lack have chimed in with some advice.


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## JudyK (Oct 5, 2018)

*Alpine white goldens*

Not sure I understand the classification of Alpine White Goldens as a puppy mill. They clearly have the information of the Dam and Sire clearances on thier pages of litters. All pedigree informaion is posted on K9 data. I am considering buying a dog here. I have had english goldens for 30 years from England. I have not seen any reason to be suspect about this breeder. Does anyone know something I do not?


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

The issue is that these dogs live in the USA. While their health certifications might have been appropriate to Russia or other European countries, they are not sufficient for the US. This breeder is choosing to not follow the testing requirements of the US. They also do nothing with their dogs but breed and when they do so it is always to a dog they own. Breeding all your bitches to one in house stud is a profit set up, not a quality set up. The pricing is another issue as these dogs are in the same price range as those from breeders that do much more in the way of health, purposesful pairings and competition. 

Sure, they are not the worst breeder that has been asked about here but they also can’t be classified as a responsible/reputable breeder either. 

I had to go to Italy to get my girl and sit on pins and needles for her to turn two and get full health certifications for the USA. Many less than reputable breeders won’t do that and prefer importing on foreign clearances because the true cost of meeting the more stringent requirements of the US is having to not breed a dog that fails.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

LJack said:


> The issue is that these dogs not live in the USA. While their health certifications might have been appropriate to Russia or other European countries, they are not sufficient for the US. This breeder is choosing to not follow the testing requirements of the US. They also do nothing with their dogs but breed and when they do so it is always to a dog they own. Breeding all your bitches to one in house stud is a profit set up, not a quality set up. The pricing is another issue as these dogs are in the same price range as those from breeders that do much more in the way of health, purposesful pairings and competition.
> 
> Sure, they are not the worst breeder that has been asked about here but they also can’t be classified as a responsible/reputable breeder either.
> 
> I had to go to Italy to get my girl and sit on pins and needles for her to turn two and get full health certifications for the USA. Many less than reputable breeders won’t do that and prefer importing on foreign clearances because the true cost of meeting the more stringent requirements of the US is having to not breed a dog that fails.


The 'not' underlined in the quote shouldn't be there. She means that the dogs do not live in Ea. Europe, they live here- and do not have adequate clearances for a breed with health issues. ...


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## benelatuit (Jul 22, 2018)

I've seen several references here and elsewhere to breeders "north of the border" - Canada - being preferable to domestic breeders for people looking for the lighter colored/blockier head shaped Goldens. 

But Canada is a big (REALLY BIG) place. Are there any recommended names? And what is it they're doing in Canada that is better than here?

My first reaction to the "lectures" about white goldens was also frustration but I've been lurking around here a bit and seeing how much time and effort those in the know are providing to try to educate the rest of us about responsible breeding. It can't be easy to work so hard at it as a breeder trying to maintain and improve the breed and then see poorly-bred puppies flying off the shelves everywhere.

We are still in the grieving process having lost our light-colored Golden in June, but I sure wish I knew where to look in CA for another one, possibly a young adult rather than a puppy. Does that ever happen?


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

benelatuit said:


> I've seen several references here and elsewhere to breeders "north of the border" - Canada - being preferable to domestic breeders for people looking for the lighter colored/blockier head shaped Goldens.
> 
> But Canada is a big (REALLY BIG) place. Are there any recommended names? And what is it they're doing in Canada that is better than here?


Trashora
Blackpool
Braefield (always honest about elbow scores)
Coppermoon
Goldnote
Kyon
BelCanto
Dreamkeeper 

I am sure there are many more but those are the ones I know from where I am in Arizona. 

As far as what they do better, nearly everything. While this style/color has been a marketing fad in the US, it has not been so in Canada. 

These breeders have been working seriously with these lines for decades. They have built and retained relationships with high quality breeders overseas. Many times able to import much higher quality dogs and from breeders overseas that won’t sell to the profit driven “white dog” breeders in the US. 

Canadian breeders are usually active showing in their national kennel club. This means on the whole they are much more experienced and educated than those with this style in the US. Again it also means higher quality dogs especially structurally which is important to all homes. Breeders in the US usually have no desire to show competitively and avoid AKC, our national kennel club like the plague. They are happy to sit at home and pump out pale profit puppies without the benefit of external unbiased evaluation. They also miss out on building a strong support network that would help them stay informed on newly emerging research or issues. 

Health testing. On the whole, you are much more likely to find breed appropriate testing meeting the standards of their country in Canada than breeders of pale dogs here. Though some Canadian breeders do follow the more European attitude of breeding grade 1 elbows, they don’t hide it. It is made public and buyers can make their choice as to if they are comfortable. On the other hand, the main reason you see “lectures” is because the majority of the breeders working with European lines in the US are playing fast and loose with health. They are happy to sell health risky puppies from underage parents, parents with no certifications, missing certifications, deficient European certifications or failed certifications. Often these certification issues are hidden or down right lied about to take advantage of buyers. 



benelatuit said:


> It can't be easy to work so hard at it as a breeder trying to maintain and improve the breed and then see poorly-bred puppies flying off the shelves everywhere.
> 
> We are still in the grieving process having lost our light-colored Golden in June, but I sure wish I knew where to look in CA for another one, possibly a young adult rather than a puppy. Does that ever happen?


Honestly, I don’t worry about if health risky puppies sell or how quickly they sell. I care that anyone looking to get help finding a well bred puppy gets that help. After that, as long as they have complete information they can make their best decision. Responsible breeders believe it or not don’t see themselves as in competition with shady breeders. We usually have all our puppies sold before they are born or even bred for. 

I would try Star Crowned in CA. 

As far as young adults, they are usually only available if they aren’t stacking up to their potential. I placed one as she went oversized and would be disqualified if I tried to show her. A lot of these young dogs may have failed a health certification that means a responsible breeder would not use them but many are still perfectly suited to a companion life. Something to be aware of though so you can ask why the dog is being placed.


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## benelatuit (Jul 22, 2018)

Thank you so much for this thoughtful and thorough reply! Yes, I'm inclined to be wary of the availability of a young adult. Just remembering how much having a puppy is like having a baby...


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

There are a million reasons why a young adult might be placed. I may place a young adult girl of ours. She and her half-sibling have just decided they don't like each other, and they suddenly started fighting. I've never had that problem before. And frankly, if it persists it's not a trait I want in my breeding program. So I might place one of them.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

benelatuit said:


> Thank you so much for this thoughtful and thorough reply! Yes, I'm inclined to be wary of the availability of a young adult. Just remembering how much having a puppy is like having a baby...


Puppies ARE like infants. Lots of work. Which is why a grown out one costs more- if you are dealing with an honest breeder then I would not be wary of a older pup/young animal. I agree w Dana- there are a million reasons why, not all or even most of them a reason to worry. If you aren't showing the dog, the thing that might be a reason to place one won't be something you'd even notice in most cases. I have a thing about ear leather. I only like it thick and supple. I would place a keeper whose ears did not please me- since it is important to ME I would not want to use a dog lacking it in my breedings going forward.


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

I wouldn't be wary of an older pup/young adult. A couple of years ago, I purchased a 10-month old female from Bearabella and a 16-month old male from My Buddy. Both dogs are delightful, very sweet, and are easy to train. Both were kept by their breeder for possible conformation purposes but ultimately the breeders realized they had other dogs better suited and more likely to complete a championship so they placed them in a pet home. 

Now, I will say - if you get an older puppy/young adult it is IMPERATIVE that you have a conversation with the breeder about what the dog has been doing. In my case, Helena (Bearabella) and Leah (My Buddy) had the dogs around their other dogs so they were socialized to dogs. Additionally, they had lots of human contact so they're incredibly friendly. 

I would be wary of an older pup/young adult that has not been appropriately socialized; however, I'd say that's probably rare if you're working with a breeder who follows the GRCA's COE because those tend to be breeders who really care about their dogs and aren't likely to abandon the puppy in a crate with no socialization. 

I would add that when I worked with Bearabella and My Buddy, I went through many of the same conversations you would have if you were acquiring a puppy. I told the breeders what I was looking for in a dog and a lot about our lifestyle. Helena had two older puppies/young adults available when we spoke and after our discussion she immediately ruled out one of the two, saying, "One dog wouldn't fit with your living situation so you'd both be unhappy but the other one is perfect." I find that a good breeder cares just as much about a good match for an older puppy/young adult as they do about the placement of an 8-week-old puppy.


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

One other thing. Never, ever let someone tell you that an older pup/young adult won't bond with you like a puppy will. Absolutely not true in the case of Golden Retrievers and Labrador Retrievers.


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## Kirstencoy (Jan 23, 2020)

YES! The lady who breeds these babies has done it for years and years and my friend continually gets her puppies from her. They have a clean record, live long, clean bill of health and are adorable and perfect! She is picking her new baby up next week! I can connect you with her client who is my best friend and you can always ask for info and pictures!


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## Kirstencoy (Jan 23, 2020)

Red Bluff Puppies


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Not really... Alpine White's current litter is out of : Pedigree: Walyuta iz Stolitsy Urala and her clearances are not only not verifiable, but done underaged. Nothing has changed there. Sire: Pedigree: JRUS/JCLUB CH/RUS CH Angelonato Hurricane also underaged, no verifiable clearances, eyes listed are 3 years out of date (K9data- not OFA) and it appears from the change history he has been in the US for several years... 
Again- nothing changed- these are not breeders who are using best practices by a long stretch.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Wow, that's really white! Pups are cute, looks just like my son't great pyrenees when it was a puppy.


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