# It's been a while, but I need some advice.



## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I would discuss the term "animal abuse" with her. Beating a dog is abuse, plain and simple. If you cannot get her to stop, then you need to be fair to Ellie and rehome her (if you don't want to rehome the wife, which is what I would do!). I hope you do not have children with her, it sounds like she has some anger issues, too from what you posted. I am sorry if this comes across as harsh, but I cannot stand the idea of people beating a defenseless animal, there are way too many ways to apply positive corrections.


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

Get a new wife?? 

j/k

But in all seriousness, you really need to talk to her about this. 1. hitting a dog is WRONG. Even if she's meaning it as discipline, if someone saw her do it, she could be charge with animal cruelty I'm sure.

And 2. it's YOUR dog, is it not? Any disciplining should be left to you. Maybe make up a rule that if she sees the dog acting badly, to notify you immediately, and then you can confront the issue at hand ???

There's no excuse at all for hitting an animal, I dont care if Ellie ate all her jewellery or something. No hitting! I'm sure you wouldn't want Ellie growing up to fearing women because of her.


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

Yikes! The "Ass beatings" need to stop immediately! There is never a reason to hit a dog esspecially a mild mannered breed like a golden. I trust there will be scads of replies on this forum that you will need to print out and show to your wife. Your wife might also want to take your pup to an obedience course to better understand how dogs learn. Good luck.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

I have no advice about dealing with your wife, but beating or hitting a dog is NEVER justified, in my opinion. Whether it leaves physical scars or not, it is cruel to the animal, especially a breed as sensitive and human-oriented as goldens, and will leave emotional scars. I'm sorry to hear that Ellie is being mistreated by your wife and hope that someone on this forum can provide some advice to help improve the situation for both you and Ellie. Perhaps some counseling would be helpful for your wife to learn to better deal with her anger issues.


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## geonova (Nov 1, 2006)

Hey there....my wife & I have 2 dogs (yes, I know, I'm hacking my wife's user on here...I always do  ); a 2.5 year old male golden and a 8 month old female lab. We've had both of them since their earliest puppy days. I have firmly established myself as the alpha male in the household, but I have never done so with any form of physical abuse. Even now, both dogs will test me every now and then, but that is not a sign of them "not respecting me as the alpha male". Instead, what they are doing is simply challenging me to ensure I am still the alpha male. This is a dog's nature. Do any reading and research on wolves and how they operate in packs, and you will see this. As the previous poster said, what you are describing is abuse to a defenseless animal. How you've described Ellie sounds great - she's responding to all your commands immediately...sometimes that can be a huge task with those stubborn golden breeds! Now, I wouldn't want to say you should kick your wife to the curb, since that would be considered wife abuse now, wouldn't it? But I think you get my point...


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## jason0618 (Sep 17, 2007)

WOw, this got some fast responses...
I agree with you all, and I've mentioend animal abuse to her before to no avail. Even right now, my wife is at work, and Ellie is quite contently hanging out upstairs with me while I type this message. Getting another wife isn't an option. There's a picture of me on here somewhere... Anyone on here interested in a chubby 29 year old guy? 

Oh, and to clarify, I myself have been known to swat her on the buttin her younger days, and I tapped her on the nose when she tried to nip at me once. That's it, though. And it was more of an attention getter than a hit.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Well, I really don't know what to say.

I jokingly tell my dogs I'll "beat their asses" for stuff, but an "ass beating" in this house means a verbal correction, or for really bad crimes, a lecture 

If you mean she really hits the dog, I think you need to try to educate her when she's feeling calm.

I'm a bit confrontational and I don't take advice well. I wouldn't take kindly to anyone telling me how to raise my dog, BUT I have done tons of research for years and I know hitting a dog serves no purpose.

I have been known to pop a dog on the bum for something, to startle them into stopping- but hitting a dog for picking up a shoe or other item, or peeing inside, etc, is NOT going to earn respect or fix it.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

When you say hit, do you mean a light spank or with a rolled up news paper, or do you mean she literally grabs the dog and beats her?

I don't support old fashioned rolled up newspaper methods, but IMO it's not abuse.

Beating the dog, however, is absolutely abuse.


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## geonova (Nov 1, 2006)

Sure, mine will get a small slap on the ass, but nothing painful. 95% of the time, all I need to do is look at my golden sternley with a finger pointed and you'd think his world is coming to an end! Ask her if she has a kid, and the kid opened a kitchen cupboard when he or she wasn't supposed to, would she spin him around and whack him or her across the face? I would hope her answer would be "of course not"...it is absolutely no different with dogs, ESPECIALLY with a sensitive & human oriented breed such as goldens, as a previous poster mentioned!


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

I would never let anyone beat my dog... I just couldn't. If you don't think you can "educate" your wife, then as much as I understand you love Ellie, I think it would be in her BEST interest that she be placed in a loving and gentle home. It tears me apart knowing that she is being beaten. No living thing deserves that... EVER! Also, it's the quickest surefire way to create agression in your dog. Perhaps a pet rock would be a better fit for your wife. Sorry .... JMO.

Edited to add: that I would make it very clear to your wife "why" you are going to rehome Ellie (if you do)... as perhaps that will get-thru to her just how serious this is to you.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> WOw, this got some fast responses...
> I agree with you all, and I've mentioend animal abuse to her before to no avail. Even right now, my wife is at work, and Ellie is quite contently hanging out upstairs with me while I type this message. Getting another wife isn't an option. There's a picture of me on here somewhere... Anyone on here interested in a chubby 29 year old guy?
> 
> Oh, and to clarify, I myself have been known to swat her on the buttin her younger days, and I tapped her on the nose when she tried to nip at me once. That's it, though. And it was more of an attention getter than a hit.


If you are going to stay married to her (again, I feel strongly about animal abuse, which is what this is) then you need to rehome the dog. It is totally unfair to allow her to be beaten for every little transgression. 

I can promise you, there are plenty of women who are attracted to men who love and care for their dogs (or cats) regardless of self proclaimed chubbiness. 

Your wife needs to get some anger management counseling. When/if you have children, this is sure to spill over into their upbringing, too. A bully is a bully is a bully. Beating something that is defenseless is what a bully does. Be it a child or an animal.


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## jason0618 (Sep 17, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> When you say hit, do you mean a light spank or with a rolled up news paper, or do you mean she literally grabs the dog and beats her?
> 
> I don't support old fashioned rolled up newspaper methods, but IMO it's not abuse.
> 
> Beating the dog, however, is absolutely abuse.


Both. Newspapers or magazines if there's one around, hands if not...
And just as an example... This morning, my wife gets up before I do in the morning. She took Ellie out to go to the bathroom, and started yelling out the door at her. Then, when she came back inside, I heard her hit Ellie ELEVEN times. Keep in mind, I'm upstairs in bed at 6:45 am and I heard this. I went downstairs, and was informed of Ellie's crime: She didn't go poop. Yep, you read it right. Ellie didn't have to poop, so she got hit 11 times. We ended up arguing, and that's how things were when she left for work.
I absolutely do NOT want to rehome Ellie. Just looking at her right now, I know she's happiest when my wife isn't here. She's all stretched out getting ready to go to napland. I hate this.


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## geonova (Nov 1, 2006)

I'm sorry, but reading that made me sick to my stomach. I am in London, Ontario, but I would be more than willing to drive down to Ohio this weekend to get Ellie. No animal (not even cats, and I HATE, HATE, HATE cats) deserves to be subject to that kind of abuse. Christ, if she doesn't have to poo, she doesn't have to poo!


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## Faith's mommy (Feb 26, 2007)

please rehome your dog and get a vasectomy so that you don't subject human children to this unstable person.


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

You might be looking for a new wife as this type of situation could blow up as it is something that you'll never agree on. Do you have kids? If so, how does she treat the kids? If not, be careful about considering this.

Would your wife consider going with you to obedience/manners class to make her feel more in tune with your golden? It could be a great bonding experience & change her tune about how she's been treating your "kid".

For curiousity, was she involved in the decision to get a dog? (I do think that there are some people who should NEVER have an animal)


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

I understand that you don't "want" to rehome Ellie... but is it really fair to her to have to suffer repeating daily beatings... just so that the two of you can be together? Her own spirit will be as crushed as I daresay yours is in just a short matter of time. And just how high are the beatings going to escalate? That's really scarey. If hitting her eleven times today did not produce the desired result will it be 12 tomorrow... 13????

Perhaps you both need a new home.


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

geonova said:


> I'm sorry, but reading that made me sick to my stomach. I am in London, Ontario, but I would be more than willing to drive down to Ohio this weekend to get Ellie. No animal (not even cats, and I HATE, HATE, HATE cats) deserves to be subject to that kind of abuse. Christ, if she doesn't have to poo, she doesn't have to poo!


It's 5 1/2 hours from my place to yours but I'd go with you. Yes, that dog needs to be rescued before she turns on your wife. What would your wife do if this happened?????


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

She HIT the dog loudly ELEVEN times because the dog didn't need to ****? Or was too nervous to perform even!! I'm sorry but that is insanity... I give people the benefit of the doubt and anyone can lose his or temper on rare occasions and mess up but that's abuse... I wouldn't get rid of my dog either, but I would not let this person touch my dog, and I would get out. It isn't my place to ask if she hits you, but it's a real concern. It sounds like she was probably beaten or verbally abused as a child- which is sad- she may not KNOW there are other ways to handle things.


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> I've got a dilemma I'm hoping to get some advice on... I joined this site a few months ago when I got Ellie. I've not had time to get on here too much lately, but Ellie is progressing wonderfully from a cute little puppy into a lanky lady. The problem is this: My DW doesn't treat her very well at all. The slightest behavioral issue is met with "an ass beating" as she calls it. If I say anything about it to her, she says it's the only way she'll learn. Obviously, I disagree with that wholeheartedly. My wife feels that Ellie doesn't "respect me as the alpha male" but I'm a firm believer that knowing the "pack order" doesn't mean I need to physically hit her. When I call Ellie, she comes. When I tell her to get back, or go to her crate, or anything else, she does it--immediately. She is everything I've ever wanted in a dog, but I don't know how else to deal with my wife. She's a confrontational person by nature, and loves arguing so I usually get nowhere when I try to talk to her about this.
> Adivce? Comments?


She is being emotionally abusive to YOU as well as physically abusive to the dog! This is NOT right - do something NOW, please!


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

You need to sit her down and explain over and over to her about what she is doing is wrong and she is breaking the law. Beating a dog will never make the dog behave. It just creates fear and that can create even more problems. Ask your wife to take anger management classes, because if you plan on having kids with her, I GUARANTEE she will do this with them also. THis needs to be stopped. Does she hit you also? Than you need to get out of that relationship. 
This is not fair to Ellie. She cant live in a home with someone that will "beat her ass". Nobody human or animal should have to live with that. I know you love her but she deserves better. I would rather be alone than be with a person even if I loved them that hit my furkids. They are my children and are innocent, defenseless creatures. You would never forgive yourself if she hurt her or worse killed her in her fits of anger. 
She can be charged with animal abuse if someone turns her in. 
Good luck and I would think about rehoming her or leaving the wife. IT WILL NOT STOP WITHOUT SOME COUNSELING.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Would your wife consider counseling together, with YOU? She may truly not be able to control herself, and counseling and even meds could help. Children (and we all started out as children) only know what we are taught- she may never have been.


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## Tracey & Honey (Jun 26, 2007)

Hi, I am sorry but I have to say I think your wife is unstable. Why don't you make your wife sit on the toilet and do a poo at your command and then when she can't do it then ......................

Sorry but someone should call animal welfare and report your wife for cruelty and what will happen when the dog turns and bites your wife. It will then have to be put to sleep.

Think about the love for your dog it is better it is rehomed

Sorry


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I couldn't give up my dog and I couldn't be a happy person without dogs for my entire life- so I know what I'd be doing...


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

Jason you have to ask yourself some very serious questions here. Do you plan to have children with this woman? If so, what are you going to do when she smacks your toddler 11-12 times for not pottying on demand?

Smacking Ellie is no different just because she is a dog. She is a gentle, helpless soul who is being abused. ABUSED. There is no candy coating what is happening to her.

Your wife needs serious counseling. You, as a "parent" to Ellie, need to ensure she is SAFE, at ALL times. There is absolutely no excuse for you to leave that poor soul in your angry wife's hands. You are Ellie's protector. Do the right thing, PLEASE. Either make sure your wife has no contact with Ellie or you rehome her. This is wrong and you know it. Your wife needs help, and Ellie needs you to protect her. Please do the right thing!


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## lovestofly (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm hoping that this thread is a cruel cruel hoax because as I sit here ato work trying to enjoy my lunch, I have been sickened to my stomach to the point that I cannot eat. The lunch went to the trash. Your wife has a very serious problem, if she hit the poor dog ELEVEN times cause she couldn't poop then what is she going to do next?? I am no therapist but this woman appears to have a LOT of pent up anger and she is taking it out on the poor dog. I would NOT allow that woman NEAR my dog - EVER. I'm so sorry but you need to find your dog a home that will not be abusive, my choice however would be to get rid of the WIFE. I don't care how chubby you are, YOU and your dog deserve better. I'm actually shaking as I am typing this, I cannot believe what I have read. PLEASE rehome your dog NOW!!


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

JMO, My fiance used to act the same way. When Diesel was a puppy he used to go potty in the house ALL THE TIME. He wouldnt ever go outside. In turn, Keith built a pen for D and then we left him outside. Now, thanks to everyone on this forum, D is finally back in and has not went potty on the floor yet! I mean, people considered him being outside cruel. Anyway, back to what I was saying... The only way to prevent this, is keeping TOTAL control of your pet. Feed, Walk, Potty... You have to do it ALL! Otherwise (due to him and your wifes relationship) this is going to continue. He can't listen to her, because hes scared of her... You get up and take him out in the morning... etc. Tell her its your dog, and do not touch him!! If she does, I'd call and have her arrested... Sounds as though, JMO, she has a lot of control issues. If you cant tell her to quit, and shes your wife, there is a problem. Its supposed to be a relationship...not a dictatorship...


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## jason0618 (Sep 17, 2007)

Guys, c'mon... IF, and that's a big IF, I were to rehome Ellie, she'd go to my parent's. They're golden people, and are the erason for my love of the breed. We had them when I was growing up, and my parents absolutely love Ellie. They get upset when I don't bring her when I visit.
No, my wife doesn't hit me. At least not in the same sense.

True story about conseling... Last year, she thought I was cheating on her. Swore it up and down, though I emphatically denied it. She went so far as to confront the girl, who also denied it. Counseling was suggested, and she agreed to go. After several visits, the counselor told us BOTH that my wife has anger issues, as well as various other issues that she wanted to meet with her privately about, and said very clearly that what my wife saw as cheating was in no way, shape or form, cheating. I was friends with the girl. That's it. Anyway, after that, my wife got p.o'd and never went back for teh follow up private sessions, and things have obviously not changed.


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

I honestly believe that you know in your heart that this is both wrong and that something has to be done. This is why you are here today posting for help. If there is anything I can do, please let me know... I am in Windsor... (part way between you and a forum member offering to give her a home)... I would be willing to help transport. 

Ellie needs you to be strong for her and to protect her.


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## lovestofly (Feb 25, 2007)

Then PLEASE PLEASE give Ellie to your parents, you can visit her there often, you really need to remove her from this abusive situation, apparently your wife does not think she has a problem and she is NOT going to change. I wish you well living with her, your going to need all the luck you can get.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Doesn't hit you, at least not in the same sense? I don't understand that sentence.

I am trying to be fair because I am not a saint (who here is?) and people make mistakes. But the thing you described happening this morning has truly disturbed me. I don't blame you keeping Ellie, because I didn't give up mine when I lived with an abusive person. I just kept them away from the abuser, and eventually, I threw the abuser out of my house. Alcohol was the issue there. In another relationship, my partner was very loving to the dogs, and to me, most of the time, but would occasionally lose it (he rarely does but when he does it's BAD) and in a few instances abused either one of my dogs or worse yet, a client dog. I left, and that was a very large part of why. 

Now I may disagree with some things my current partner does with her dog, but NEVER EVER is it abuse- ignorance or lack of experience only! And she quickly will adjust something if I tell her it's not best for the dog the way she was doing it before. There is a big difference. I find it hard to imagine your wife truly cannot understand losing it like that and beating the dog 11 times is abuse. Sounds like she just loses it and cannot control herself. I have a temper myself and I do get upset sometimes over stupid things but I turn it on myself, or I take a walk. 

I am a trained counselor and I have no idea what to tell you... in spite of this long post. I feel for the dog and for you.


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

If anyone hit my dog like that, even my hubby of 17 years, I would be out of there with my dog so fast. This is so disturbing it makes me sick. That is ABUSE!!!


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## lovestofly (Feb 25, 2007)

Yep it is ABUSE and if YOU let it continue, you are just as guilty as her for allowing it to happen. Would you allow your wife to beat children that way and stand by and do nothing?? I'm sorry, I'm just being very honest, if you allow it all to continue then you are also an animal abuser.


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

Jason we are trying to help, but you have to expect us to be incensed by this. You come to a Golden Retriever Forum, and tell this horrible tale of abuse...what do you expect? You clearly are in a very unstable marriage, but that is not the point. The point is your beautiful "child" is being abused at the hands of your wife. It is not just morally wrong, it is also ILLEGAL. How can you continue to allow this to happen? You said you laid upstairs and counted 11 smacks?

I would have been downstairs and STOPPED it before I could count that far.

Please please, protect this girl and do what is right for her. You know what is right in your heart or you would not be posting.


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## jason0618 (Sep 17, 2007)

I can't believe this. I came and asked for advice, and it's dongraded itself to telling me all about what a horrible person my wife is. I realize this is a golden forum, and that I'll get golden oriented responses, but seriously... I married her, and that's not something I take lightly. If I were just dating her, yeah, there'd be no questions asked. But this is marriage. I'm also not going to live my life without my dog just because she and I have some differing opinions on how to raise a dog. This isn't an "every day three times a day" occurence... It just happens sometimes, and I wanted to know if anyone could give me some advice on what to do about it.


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## Luvinmygoldens (Jul 16, 2007)

I feel terrible for the situation you have going on. Please let Ellie go. Let her go live with your parents. You'd still be able to see her and know that she's taken care of. Letting her suffer beatings so you two can stay together is just not right. Love her enough to let her go and live life where she won't be beaten and where her spirit will remain intact. As it is now, she will be a broken girl in no time. This is just sad.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Your wife is using your dog as a punching bag and an outlet for her anger. She is getting pleasure in beating Ellie.

Ellie is completely innocent
Ellie is totally confused and has no idea why she is being hit
Ellie NEEDS your protection - who else will protect her
This is the exact same thing as your wife beating a 4 year old child - would you stand by and let her do that?

If you allow your wife to continue abusing Ellie then YOU are as guilty of beating an innocent being as your wife is. 

So what are you going to do?


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## geonova (Nov 1, 2006)

Jason, of course marriage isn't something anyone should take likely...but I couldn't fathom staying married to my wife if she abused our dog or any other dog, whether it is a "sometimes" occurence or an "every day three times a day" occurrence. This, by the way, is a very weak justification. Sounds like something a battered wife would say..."it only happens once in awhile, not every day or anything like that". Because you and your wife have some differing opinions on how to raise a dog, your dog has to suffer through the abuse because you won't live your life without her? I'm sorry, but that is incredibly selfish on your part, and simply unfair to the dog.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> I can't believe this. I came and asked for advice, and it's dongraded itself to telling me all about what a horrible person my wife is. I realize this is a golden forum, and that I'll get golden oriented responses, but seriously... I married her, and that's not something I take lightly. If I were just dating her, yeah, there'd be no questions asked. But this is marriage. I'm also not going to live my life without my dog just because she and I have some differing opinions on how to raise a dog. This isn't an "every day three times a day" occurence... It just happens sometimes, and I wanted to know if anyone could give me some advice on what to do about it.


You asked for advice, we've given it. MAKE IT STOP 
What else did you want Golden loving people to say, let her keep beating the dog? You KNOW your wife has anger problems, you said so yourself.

This the advice you asked for, make the beating stops however you have to, up to and including finding Ellie a new home. You said yourself Ellie is happier when you wife is not home. Why would you want to continue subjecting your sweet, and now fearful puppy to an angry person who continues to beat her?


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I can't believe you won't take the advice you asked for.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

That brings up a good question- why didn't you get up and STOP her this morning?


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

The way I see it, one of them has to go. The wife or the dog. It's not fair to poor Ellie who doesn't understand why she's getting hit just because she didn't poop.

Are you prepared to deal with Ellie being beaten the rest of her life? Do you understand that beating her almost most definitely WILL cause her to become 1. Aggressive or 2. Fearful of being around your wife.

Trust me, I've seen this in my own dog. My brother got mad a couple of times and let it out on Tucker, and now everytime someone comes downstairs, he cowers into his crate and won't come out until he knows its not my brother, or if it is him, he makes sure he's not angry. 

Do you want a dog like this? It saddens me daily to see him acting like this. My brother hasn't gotten mad at him for several months now, almost a year, actually. And the long-term effects seem to be permenant.

So... it's up to you. when it comes down to it YOU have to make the decision.

You can let your dog to continue receiving these "ass beatings" or you can rehome her with your parents and let her live the life she deserves where you can still see her. She won't forget you, and she'll be safe.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

(if someone was beating my dog, I would be down there in 2 seconds flat, and I would stop it)


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## Tracey & Honey (Jun 26, 2007)

It could be a jealousy thing. Is it possible she thinks you pay more attention to the dog than her so she hates the dog and takes it out on the dog at every opportunity. 

This could also happen if you have children (currently happening to sister in law/brother in law. He idolises the kids and pays them loads of attention so she abuses them. They are now getting divorced and he took the kids.


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## lovestofly (Feb 25, 2007)

There is no quick fix for your wife's anger problems Jason, you know that what we have all told you is the BEST advice you could get so now just follow it and give Ellie a chance at a happy life. I myself could not live with a person such as your wife but that is your choice - Ellie doesn't HAVE a choice so make the right decision for her.


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## Emmysourgolden (Oct 10, 2007)

mylissyk said:


> You asked for advice, we've given it. MAKE IT STOP
> What else did you want Golden loving people to say, let her keep beating the dog? You KNOW your wife has anger problems, you said so yourself.
> 
> This the advice you asked for, make the beating stops however you have to, up to and including finding Ellie a new home. You said yourself Ellie is happier when you wife is not home. Why would you want to continue subjecting your sweet, and now fearful puppy to an angry person who continues to beat her?


Exactly!!! What did you expect for an answer?? 

Tell her to knock it off!! It's that simple. If she won't give the dog to your parents. How can you sleep knowing you let your wife abuse your dog. I don't care if it's not every day... Hitting 11 times because it didn't poo...you've got to be kidding!! I almost don't believe this thread!


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Jason, I'm going to take a slightly different route in the advice here, because it seems you are getting frustrated, and I don't want you to just give up and allow nothing to change. It's obvious by you coming here today that you do realize that the status quo is not working. What if your dog were to stay with your parents "for now." Sign the dog up for an obedience class (do your research and try to get a class that focuses solely on positive reinforcement. They do exist.) Tell your wife that you would like her to work with the dog at class in order to strengthen their relationship so that the dog can hopefully come home eventually. If she is willing to give it a try, maybe seeing that she can "control" the dog without punishing it will open her eyes a bit to the fact that all this hitting is not only not helping but actually hurting the dog and her level of performance in your wife's presence. At that point you may be able to speak rationally to her about the fact that dogs, like humans, have to go when they "have to go" and can't always pop-a-squat on command. If this is successful, she may become more self-aware and perhaps you two could discuss resuming counseling. I would not bring the dog back into your house full time until she has completed the full training session (usually 6 to 8 weeks) with the dog. Then discuss it and if things are going well, perhaps give it a trial basis. In addition, if your wife cannot change her bahavior and is abusive toward the dog in class, you won't have to be the one to call the cops on her. And of course, you're not completely giving up the dog to never see her again. I hope you found this helpful. 

Julie and Jersey


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## JensDreamboy (May 25, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> . I'm also not going to live my life without my dog just because she and I have some differing opinions on how to raise a dog. This isn't an "every day three times a day" occurence... It just happens sometimes, and I wanted to know if anyone could give me some advice on what to do about it.


OMG would you say this if it were children she was abusing? Please let your Golden live with your parents! I think shed have to turn on your wife eventually!


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## ID_Hannah (Jun 8, 2006)

jason0618 said:


> I'm also not going to live my life without my dog just because she and I have some differing opinions on how to raise a dog. This isn't an "every day three times a day" occurence... It just happens sometimes, and I wanted to know if anyone could give me some advice on what to do about it.


I'm sorry I can't really add anything more than everyone else has said. They're all correct by the way, hitting a dog in the way you describe your wife doing is unacceptable. If you can't stop it, then you need to step up and get Ellie out of the situation. 

I do disagree vehemently with you; this isn't a simple matter of you and your wife having "differing opinions on how to raise a dog." Beat the dog vs. not beat the dog do not qualify as differing opinions on how to raise the dog.

Like you, I'm not going to say that I've never raised a hand to my dog. Boone still gets a firm tap on his rump when he tries stick his head in the garbage in the kitchen. But the scenario you described with your wife was not a correction, it was a beating. Even ONE swat in that situation would make no sense to Ellie. She comes in the backdoor, she has no clue that defecating was the expectation so she has no idea that she did anything wrong. And then she faces a beating. It's cruel.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Exactly Hannah- I have popped a dog on the rump for something- that the dog will UNDERSTAND!

But this just makes no sense.


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## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

wow. I would LOVE for someone to beat my dog. They wouldn't know what hit them after I found out. Dogs do not respond to physical punishment, besides to make them fearful or aggressive. My dogs will get a tap on the butt when they are doing something wrong, but its not hard (seriously, its like when someone taps you on the shoulder to get your attention) and its mostly so they will turn around and look at me if they are too into what they're doing. To the OP, I know you think we're all ganging up on your wife, but this goes way beyond how she treats your dog. It goes to how she treats you, other people, future shildren. Your dog is just who is around NOW. Get your dog out of the situation, and get your wife some counseling.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Where and from who did you get this dog from????

I think you wife needs some Mental help - therapy or something. If my spouse hit my dog 11 eleven times for somthing so stupid. I would charge her if I did not beat her 11 times myself. I agree with the others you need to re-home the dog or your wife. I hope you do not have children or al least don't plan on it. I always thought how men behaved with and around my dogs and horses said alot about who they would be with children and how much patients they have etc. You need to seriouly think about this situation. 

SOME THINGS TO THINK about:

LETTING ABUSE GO ON AROUND YOU WHETHER TO A DOG OR CHILD HAVING THE FULL POWER TO STOP IT IS THE SAME AS BEING THE ABUSER.

MARRIAGE CAN BE A BLESSING BUT SO CAN DIVORCE.


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## peeps (Sep 12, 2007)

OKAY, you knew that you would get golden oriented so Idon't understand your anger when people are trying to get you to protect your dog. Your first warning sign was the refusal to return to councilling. I don't think she will change - there are people in this world who do not respect animals the way they should and you cannot change their minds I think she is one of them. If you want to stay with her that's fine-but you should NOT NOT NOT subject your dog to abuse because of it. Let her live a normal happy life with people who will love her. If you really love her maybe you need to think about protecting her from harm as she obviously needs it.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

2 words:

MARRIAGE COUNSELING

Your wife's issues go well beyond the dog.
You are absolutely correct - a dog loves most the person who he perceives as his "leader", and that does not mean that the leader is physically dominating the dog. Your wife is abusive, on many levels. I do not know if you have, or plan to have shildren, but this would concern me greatly.
Your puppy is doing fine. Your wife is not. As much of a proponent of Obedience Classes as I am, my first stop would be to marriage counseling.
Good luck.


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## Cam's Mom (Apr 13, 2007)

Jason, I haven't read all the posts, but enough. Your wife should be reported to animal control...and Ellie should definately not be in the same building as your wife. If you can't rehome her immediately calll a rescue group as soon as you can. In the meantime see if a friend would take her. I'd be leaving the wife too...she'll start on you sooner or later...

Ellie needs to be removed from your wifes environment either with or without you. If it was a child it would be a no brainer...think of your pup as your child!

I feel for you, cause can't imagine being without my dogs. In that situation I'd leave my spouse, and not my dog.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> I can't believe this. I came and asked for advice, and it's dongraded itself to telling me all about what a horrible person my wife is. I realize this is a golden forum, and that I'll get golden oriented responses, but seriously... I married her, and that's not something I take lightly. If I were just dating her, yeah, there'd be no questions asked. But this is marriage. I'm also not going to live my life without my dog just because she and I have some differing opinions on how to raise a dog. This isn't an "every day three times a day" occurence... It just happens sometimes, and I wanted to know if anyone could give me some advice on what to do about it.


(I've been reading this thread backwards, sorry for my replies being disjointed...) Jason, none of this was meant as an attack. But you are in denial. You and your wife need help, and the dog should not be in the middle. You say that Ellie is happier when your wife is not home, do some soul searching - aren't you, too?
It is most admirable that you hold marriage sacred - that is as it should be. But this situation is not healthy for you or Ellie. You have a choice. Ellie does not. Ellie does not deserve the treatment that your wife is giving her, and should be removed into a home where her obvious good disposition and obedient demeanor is appreciated by all.
Again, good luck to you.


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## Cam's Mom (Apr 13, 2007)

I meant to add, that what often happens to abused Goldens is they BITE...and then they're put to sleep...and through no fault of their own other than being scared ********!!

There's no excuse for hitting a dog whatever they did. Hitting them doesn't teach them anything, ever...except to be afraid of being around hands.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> Both. Newspapers or magazines if there's one around, hands if not...
> And just as an example... This morning, my wife gets up before I do in the morning. She took Ellie out to go to the bathroom, and started yelling out the door at her. Then, when she came back inside, I heard her hit Ellie ELEVEN times. Keep in mind, I'm upstairs in bed at 6:45 am and I heard this. I went downstairs, and was informed of Ellie's crime: She didn't go poop. Yep, you read it right. Ellie didn't have to poop, so she got hit 11 times. We ended up arguing, and that's how things were when she left for work.
> I absolutely do NOT want to rehome Ellie. Just looking at her right now, I know she's happiest when my wife isn't here. She's all stretched out getting ready to go to napland. I hate this.


This is as far as I have read in this thread so I don't know what others have had to say about this. I'm going to say what I think and if its not proper then I really don't care!

I would have been down those stairs faster than my legs could have carried me and probably slamed the DW against the wall! Then I would have called the animal abuse hot line (is there one??) and reported her and laughed as she was carted off to jail in her jammies!! There is no excuse for this type of treatment of that poor dog and there is no excuse for you not stopping it. You may be 29 and chubby but there are many, many women who would love to have you! Its not how you look on the outside but how you look on the INSIDE that counts and its clear you love Ellie and are not happy with the dog beater. I had a thought right away ------- do you have children? If not and you someday DO have kids with this angry woman do you think she would treat them any differently that she is Ellie? Sorry, but my advice is to take Ellie and run as far and as fast as you can. If you don't she is going to end up hurting Ellie and maybe you! This makes me furious!! Sorry, I don't mean to be attacking your wife but this is serious and must be delt with immediately!

Jazzys Mom


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

My wife was raised in a household that thought that smacking a dog was the way to train them. I remember reading dog books as a kid that mentioned a swat on the nose with a rolled newspaper.... And many still believe this.... The way we were supposed to housebreak a dog was to rub their noses in any accident they had in the house.... And we just didn't know any better.

I think it's all about educating your wife. These "old ways" just aren't acceptible anymore.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Wow....I responded before reading the whole thread......

I don't know what to think or say. If it were me, I'd be putting my foot down. 

Don't treat my dog that way or get the hell out of my house (or I'd be leaving with my dog).


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Something else to think about it she is getting slack as she is a women. This happens a lot men do seem to get punished further or thought of a lot less then a women. This is not acceptable behavior from anyone. 

I just had to tell you what I thought in the post above but PG is right this is not meant as an attack. This is to put you into perspective and give you a shall we say wake-up call that this in not right this is wrong. Please try to take the points from everyones posts to help yourself. I think we are just all appauld as this is so wrong it is shocking. Your dog does not deserve this and please read again I can not stress it enough is that:

~~**~~LETTING ABUSE GO ON AROUND YOU WHETHER TO A DOG OR CHILD HAVING THE FULL POWER TO STOP IT IS THE SAME AS BEING THE ABUSER~~**~~


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Oh dear GOD, 11 times you say ???

Forget the marriage counseling, forget the education, *REHOME* your dog *NOW* and then deal with whatever issues you have after. YOU ARE RUINING YOUR BEAUTIFUL LOVING GOLDEN RETRIEVER BY ALLOWING THIS TO CONTINUE. 

MAKE IT STOP *NOW*. If you love your golden retriever, *DO THE RIGHT THING. *

This makes me sick. 

SICK SICK SICK SICK SICK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:yuck: :yuck: :yuck:


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> WOw, this got some fast responses...
> I agree with you all, and I've mentioend animal abuse to her before to no avail. Even right now, my wife is at work, and Ellie is quite contently hanging out upstairs with me while I type this message. Getting another wife isn't an option. There's a picture of me on here somewhere... Anyone on here interested in a chubby 29 year old guy?
> 
> Oh, and to clarify, I myself have been known to swat her on the buttin her younger days, and I tapped her on the nose when she tried to nip at me once. That's it, though. And it was more of an attention getter than a hit.


Jason if your situation were reversed....if your name were Julia and your wife was a man...we would all be telling you to grab the dog get out ... you are in an abusive situation.....the only difference is that the dog is taking the physical beating and bearing the bruises not you...

Our local womens shelter has foster homes for the pets of women/children in abusive situations, becuase they wont leave their abusers for fear of what they will do to their dog.....your wife is already, blatantly, beating your dog...

It is admirable that you take your marriage vows seriously....but I suspect you are using your vows as a way to avoid dealing with your fears - fear of being alone, fear of starting all over again, or fear of a failure (of a failed marriage)... Fear will kill your spirt and make you ill....facing your fears will fill your spirit, set you free and make you strong...

Chubby or not, there are plenty of people in the world looking for a caring, kind hearted man.....there are *far fewer* looking for a man so wishy-washy and unsure of what is right and wrong that they would allow another person to beat their dog....

Just becuase your wife stopped counseling doenst mean you have to....we all benefit from being heard and having someone objective listen to us...call your counselor....get back in for some appointments....get to be bottom of why you have allowed this to happen in your own home....

IMO your choices:

Rehome Ellie with your parents 
Rehome with a rescue group
Call an attorney explore the option of leaving your marriage _with your dog..._
Do nothing and wait for Ellie to bite her attacker and then put her to sleep...


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> Guys, c'mon... IF, and that's a big IF, I were to rehome Ellie, she'd go to my parent's. They're golden people, and are the erason for my love of the breed. We had them when I was growing up, and my parents absolutely love Ellie. They get upset when I don't bring her when I visit.
> No, my wife doesn't hit me. At least not in the same sense.
> 
> True story about conseling... Last year, she thought I was cheating on her. Swore it up and down, though I emphatically denied it. She went so far as to confront the girl, who also denied it. Counseling was suggested, and she agreed to go. After several visits, the counselor told us BOTH that my wife has anger issues, as well as various other issues that she wanted to meet with her privately about, and said very clearly that what my wife saw as cheating was in no way, shape or form, cheating. I was friends with the girl. That's it. Anyway, after that, my wife got p.o'd and never went back for teh follow up private sessions, and things have obviously not changed.


Sorry Jason, but you are in an abusive relationship and are saying all the things that abused wives say. I know this because I have had several friends in these kinds of relationships and their statements mirror yours! If your wife doesn't want help (and she obviously needs help) then its up to you to take the lead in your household and do something! Either leave her or let Ellie go to your parents. Ellie is a helpless pawn in all this. You at least can defend yourself. I'd say poor Ellie has shown much restraint by not already biting your wife. What she did - beating her 11 times because Ellie didn't poop when she wanted her to is one of the most horribly mean things I have ever heard of! Either you stop it or you are just as bad as her.

This makes me physically sick!

Jazzys Mom


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Honestly Jason we are not trying to gang up on you....
We will support your decision to rehome...if you cannot find the inner strength to protect Ellie right now--at this point in your life
We will support your decision to keep Ellie provided you dont allow the abuse to continue...
We are all glad that you reached out...it took some guts to do so!
I would guess the flood of passionate repsonses has been a shock to your system....
This tends to be a passionate bunch of people....


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

Jason, many of us have been in abusive situations and I personally attest to this motto, "It's better to be alone than it is to be alone in a relationship." Yes, it sounds like this could apply to you.

As well, Jason, being male and being abused (mentally & physically) is sometimes seen in a different light than when a female is abused. Take that step, get out & get on with your life (& that of Ellie's) It's a big step but one that will give you eventual satisfaction. Our family is just going through the effects of spousal abuse and my son & his 3 year old child have lived with us since April 2007 as a result. My son's c/l wife took a knife to my son & he escaped with his daughter and the clothes on his back. She was charged and convicted of being an abuser and she doesn't have any access to her daughter unless it is children's aide agency supervised. For 4 years I saw the bruises, cuts and emotional damage that it did to my son & gave him all the support he needed to leave. (The mother did not touch her daughter) You are being abused & your "child" Ellie is too! Get out before it's too late. As well, you are WORTHY of better. Don't feel that because you are "chubby" that you aren't worthy and you won't find anyone else. YOU ARE!!! and you'll eventually find someone who cares about you, your feelings and your values (ELLIE!)

By the way, it doesn't matter whether Ellie is a purebred Golden Retriever or a Heinz 57, our responses would be the same! We care about YOU & ELLIE!


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

By the way, it doesn't matter whether Ellie is a purebred Golden Retriever or a Heinz 57, our responses would be the same! We care about YOU & ELLIE![/quote]


Gwen, the only reason I asked was to see if maybe the Breeder could take the puppy back while he got somethings figured out in his life with his marriage. Just because I breed does not mean that I think Mixed breeds don't matter. And whether they have a good home and are taken care of doesn't matter. OK


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

Ash said:


> By the way, it doesn't matter whether Ellie is a purebred Golden Retriever or a Heinz 57, our responses would be the same! We care about YOU & ELLIE!


 
Gwen, the only reason I asked was to see if maybe the Breeder could take the puppy back while he got somethings figured out in his life with his marriage. Just because I breed does not mean that I think Mixed breeds don't matter. And whether they have a good home and are taken care of doesn't matter. OK[/quote]

I didn't take your comment in ANY negative way at all. I just wanted Jason to know that we're not a bunch of golden fanatics but dog/animal lovers. I apologize if my comment was taken in a negative way:doh: Sometimes I put my foot in my mouth!!!!!! Sorry!:uhoh:

(But we are golden fanatics!!!!!!)


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Ohhh ok I was not so sure how to take that comment as I did ask in the previous post. Ok cool were good!


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

Jason, reading your last post it seems as though you dont understand how big of a situation this really is... this isnt the usual "My dog is chewing"..."My dog is peeing on the floor" post. This is Illegal... Its kinda a big deal. You need to research the breed and how easily it is to effectivley train your GR without violence. If you do not take care of this situation, someone else will and you are going to lose your dog. I do not believe in divorce, but counseling makes perfect sense. I know some people think "its just a dog, and it needs to obey my every command"... But here, this forum, Its never "just a dog". If you wanted easier to swallow answers, find the "its just a dog and doesnt matter forum". Maybe you will find the answers you are looking for there. And maybe they'll tell you abusing an animal is fine under certain circumstances.... But not here....


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Jason, you need to stand up to this woman. I have to imagine that you would be incensed if you knew that a neighbor or acquaintance were hitting their dog for what is essentially no reason at all, other than THEY CAN. If I were your neighbor and knew that this was happening, I'd have called animal control so fast your head would spin. Because you have made yourself a member of the Forum Community, we care about you as well as Ellie, and you are both in a very unhealthy situation. Your worth as a man is NOT dependant upon whether you have a woman or not, and staying in a bad marriage is worse than what you might think is "failing" by ending it. 
PLEASE resume counseling - even solo if your wife refuses.You need support and a voice of reason. If you truly care about Ellie you will remove her from this situation and prevent more harm to her, physically and emotionally, as well as preventing the inevitable - she will only submit to your wife's abuse before so long before she acts to protect herself - and I can only imagine what your wife would do to her then.
Jason, I would take Ellie for you, temporarily, with the guarantee that you would get her back once the home life would be stable for her. Cincinnatti is not that far from me, and I would be happy to make sure that the worst case scenario doesn't happen...


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

I am just sick about this thread! This poor dog needs to be removed from this situation NOW! Jason I admire your commitement to your marriage, but do you truly have a healthy happy one?? Sad so very SAD!


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## Tracey & Honey (Jun 26, 2007)

Hi, I think if you were to tell most people and other forums what you have told us they would all give you the same reaction.

My goldie is my baby - I love her to bits and I love her too much to beat her. If she is naughty I tell her she is naughty in a stern voice but she already knows she has done wrong because she cows down. 

Poor Ellie doesn't even know she's done wrong as far as she is concern she went in the garden and when she came in she got beat up for it. Maybe she thinks now she shouldn't go in the garden anymore because she'll get a good beating. 

Only you know about your marriage and whether it is good or bad. But telling us about Ellie being beaten is enough cause to rehome her.

Ellie is your baby


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## jason0618 (Sep 17, 2007)

I never once indicated that I think abuse is fine under any circumstance. I don't. I just didn't write to be told to rehmoe my dog. I just was looking for advice on how to make my wife understand that hitting Ellie does nothing positive. Turning it around and saying that I'm "just as guilty" for "allowing" it to continue is not the advice I want or need. I realize there are other women out there. Beyond that, I have no problems with being single. I didn't get married until I was 27 and I was single t a lot before that, by choice. I"m just not the "My wife hit my dog, so I'm leaving her" kind of guy. 
That being said, she came home for lunch and I told her about all of this... Needless to say, she's not a big fan of goldenretrieverforum.com not that anyone cares what her opinion is. She's also said she will NOT go to counseling because I have a problem with the way she deals with the dog, and that if I'm not happy to "get my happy ass out". So there we are.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Have you taken your wife and your dog to training classes? We attended family basis in a Positive atmosphere. Maybe if she hears how beating a dog's backside doesn't help help with the situation??? 

My DH never hit my two, nor would he think of doing so because I'd truly send him packing, but when training Shadow he thought I was nuts. I then made him and my son go to training with Tucker and he finally got it. I finally didn't have two heads anymore.


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## lovestofly (Feb 25, 2007)

Well Jason, guess she told you huh? I'd do just that too, take my dog and get my Happy Ass Out - Fast. Sorry but a person that will not admit there is a problem or even talk about it is a time bomb waiting to go off. Gee, I really don't think anyone here will be upset that she doesn't like GRF, we do however care about your Ellie and ulitimatley you too. Please grow some cannoongies Jason............


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Well that speaks volumes....


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Jason, you need to look beyond the fact that you think we are all attacking your wife. Please, get your head out of the sand and you'll see that we are all concerned not only for Ellie, but for you. Its pretty clear that you are being emotionally abused. Your wife is abusing Ellie because Ellie is YOUR dog! She needs help, Jason ---- professional counseling. As has been said before here, if she refuses to go to counseling again then you go alone. I fully understand that marriage is to be taken very seriously but no one should have to be in an abusive relationship and its criminal to allow Ellie to be in that relationship! She is going to be seriously hurt if you don't do something. We are all just trying to help you and you have to have an open enough mind to accept that help. You HAD to know by posting what you posted that it would open a floodgate of negative responses about your wife. Maybe you wanted conformation of what you already knew to be true. Please, please get help for you and Ellie or get out of the relationship. Pointgold has made a very generous offer to take Ellie out of the situation until the situation is cleared up. I guarentee you that Ellie wouldn't get better care anywhere than Pointgold would give her. She would be loved and nurtured with Pointgold until you could take her again. Many of us would gladly take Ellie for you until you get your life straightened out. I would take her also. We are in the Chicago area. Please, just sit back and read these postings again with an open mind and you'll see we are just worried about you and Ellie both. A person that beats a dog like that is very unstable and could do some real dmamge to you and to Ellie. What do your parents say about all this? If you were my son I would want you back home with me. My youngest son is older than you so I've been around awhile and seen a lot. Please, please listen to us

Jazzys Mom (worried about you both!)


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

LibertyME said:


> ...It is admirable that you take your marriage vows seriously....but I suspect you are using your vows as a way to avoid dealing with your fears - fear of being alone, fear of starting all over again, or fear of a failure (of a failed marriage)... Fear will kill your spirt and make you ill....facing your fears will fill your spirit, set you free and make you strong...
> 
> Chubby or not, there are plenty of people in the world looking for a caring, kind hearted man.....there are *far fewer* looking for a man so wishy-washy and unsure of what is right and wrong that they would allow another person to beat their dog....


WOW, these are some harsh words but unfortunately speak powerful truths... it would take a real man to digest it all and not take offense but instead view it as an opportunity to grow emotionally.

However, I suspect there is more to this story as well... I would love it if you (Jason) could get your wife to come on the forum to tell her side of it. Oh for sure, there is no excuse for the 'doesn't-want-to-poop beating' but the fact that this problem exists at all bears witness to a horrible lack of communication and 'team work' in this marriage... and I firmly believe it does take two to make a good marriage as well as a lousy one. Does your wife take the marriage seriously too? ...or is this just a one-way street? If both of you do take the marriage seriously then you should both be actively working on your communications skills (counseling is one avenue)... otherwise it will all end badly regardless of how much you say your marriage matters... but unfortunately a wonderful Golden will have to pay part of the price for your education in the process.

My suggestion to you is get Ellie to a safe place NOW! your parents' house sounds like it might be the best place. Then get to work on your marriage... there is some changing that will need to take place on BOTH your parts (I'm not falling for the old "It's all her fault!" BS... I've been around long enough to know that there IS another side to this story of your marriage). When you get to the point of agreement about how to raise a dog without violence, then its time to begin re-introducing Ellie back into the household. I applaud you for saying you take your marriage vows seriously but please try and put that into more action... a true marriage is WORK, lots of hard work.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> I never once indicated that I think abuse is fine under any circumstance. I don't. I just didn't write to be told to rehmoe my dog. I just was looking for advice on how to make my wife understand that hitting Ellie does nothing positive. Turning it around and saying that I'm "just as guilty" for "allowing" it to continue is not the advice I want or need. I realize there are other women out there. Beyond that, I have no problems with being single. I didn't get married until I was 27 and I was single t a lot before that, by choice. I"m just not the "My wife hit my dog, so I'm leaving her" kind of guy.
> That being said, she came home for lunch and I told her about all of this... Needless to say, she's not a big fan of goldenretrieverforum.com not that anyone cares what her opinion is. She's also said she will NOT go to counseling because I have a problem with the way she deals with the dog, and that if I'm not happy to "get my happy ass out". So there we are.


She sounds just like my sister in law. I am sorry that she is so emotionally abusive to you. That may be why she physically abuses Ellie. It hurts you when she does it, and that pleases her.

Only you can make Ellie's life better. Only you. She deserves to live her life without fearing being beaten. I have fostered many dogs who have come from that type of situation. Trust me, getting them to trust us humans again is a long, long road. My Jasper, who I have had since he was 4 1/2 months old still will cower if I move too quickly and startle him. He is 2 1/2 years old now. My sister has a golden who was even more damaged by a human. He cannot make eye contact with anyone and lives in a terrified shell. She has had him for over 2 years now. He came in as a foster and she adopted him.

Only you can save her now, before she becomes an even more damaged dog.

Again, I am sorry that you have to deal with the abuse that is being heaped on you.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

take her advice and get your happy ass out. with ellie of course


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

So what are you going to do now, if she continues to hit your dog as you've described, knowing how it displeases you, and you knowing how damaging it is to your dog's spirit.

Can you protect your dog ????? If that's not a priority for you, you should not have her.

THINK OF ELLIE !! She's the one who has no choices in this situation.


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## Tracey & Honey (Jun 26, 2007)

Unfortunately you know the dog is in for another beating now and she (the wife) is going to see your reaction.

She hates Ellie that is why she beats her


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## geonova (Nov 1, 2006)

So, you're not the "My wife hit my dog, so I'm leaving her" kind of guy...instead you're the "My wife hits my dog, and I'm too much of a coward to stop her". Whether what everyone has posted her is the advice you want or not, what everyone has said is simply the cold, hard truth. If you want your wife to stop beating your dog, that's great, that's the right mindset. However, if you wife is not willing to change, or seek help, then you need to go to plan 'B', and do whatever is best for the dog.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

I never once indicated that I think abuse is fine under any circumstance. I don't. I just didn't write to be told to rehmoe my dog. 


*what did you want us to say here Jason!!! ah it's ok...if it doesn't happen every day!!!! Get REAL!!! I am sorry but i am getting my hackles up with this...*

I"m just not the "My wife hit my dog, so I'm leaving her" kind of guy. 

*Oh so stay and keep Ellie & subject her to this!*

She's also said she will NOT go to counseling because I have a problem with the way she deals with the dog, and that if I'm not happy to "get my happy ass out". 

*Well I'm sorry but if you truly love yourself and your dog that is exactly what you should do!! I am very sorry to you for the tone of this reply , all but this makes me wan't to puke:yuck: I can't read any more...your wife truly needs help and sadly Jason so do you *


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

You stated your wife "beats your dogs ass"... you have gone to counceling and she now "refuses". You can't speak to her about it because she won't. You have talked/argued with her about how this is a problem for you and she now tells you to "get our happy ass out". I fail to think of any suggestions for helping your wife to "wake up and change" when she is being a complete brick wall. If you can't speak with her about this, how could there be any helpful suggestions for us to give??? I fail to see how she's concerned one iota about how you feel.

I can only suggest that you protect your dog (who cannot protect herself)... and yourself, if you are willing. You cannot be there 100% of the time and take 100% care of your dog... it's just not possible. And your dog cannot get inside your wife's head and just "know" how to please her... she is an innocent... an innocent who is only going to shut down mentally and emotionally b/c she will not be able to understand "why" she is being beaten... or what she can done wrong. In order to correct a dog properly you have to correct a bad behaviour at the time that it happens, and with "proper" training... NOT beating.

I am greatly sorry that you see this as "differing opinions about how to raise/train a dog" b/c it is not. This is about being cruel and abusive.

I just fail to see what possible advise we could give "other" than to rehome your sweet pup.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> I never once indicated that I think abuse is fine under any circumstance. I don't. I just didn't write to be told to rehmoe my dog. I just was looking for advice on how to make my wife understand that hitting Ellie does nothing positive. Turning it around and saying that I'm "just as guilty" for "allowing" it to continue is not the advice I want or need. I realize there are other women out there. Beyond that, I have no problems with being single. I didn't get married until I was 27 and I was single t a lot before that, by choice. I"m just not the "My wife hit my dog, so I'm leaving her" kind of guy.
> That being said, she came home for lunch and I told her about all of this... Needless to say, she's not a big fan of goldenretrieverforum.com not that anyone cares what her opinion is. She's also said she will NOT go to counseling because I have a problem with the way she deals with the dog, and that if I'm not happy to "get my happy ass out". So there we are.


Jason, *WE ARE* trying to give you advice on how to get your wife to stop abusing Ellie! Either leave or take Ellie out of the home. That is the *ONLY* advice there is. You cannot seem to get it through your wife's head that abusing the dog is wrong. You may not be the "wife hit dog so I'm leaving" kind of guy but after her thoughtless remarks you'd be a fool to stay. Of course she doesn't like us - we've told you she is wrong. Did you expect her to like us? *LISTEN --- YOU DO NOT HAVE THE PROBLEM -- AS SHE TOLD YOU. ITS CLEAR THAT SHE DOESN'T CARE IF YOU LEAVE OR STAY!* Don't torture yourself and torture Ellie. Give it up, Jason! She's not worth it!

Jazzys Mom


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

Look at this face?? Here is your picture you were referring to


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I remember those pics; she is such a sweet little pup. I really believe you know what you need to do, and we will support you and Ellie through it. Did you see PointGold's lovely offer as well? And always, LibertyME and Monomer and others have wise words.


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## lovestofly (Feb 25, 2007)

lovealways_jami said:


> Look at this face?? Here is your picture you were referring to


 
If this is you and your sweet Ellie, I know a TON of women that would be more than happy to welcome you BOTH into their arms!!


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Jason, 

Replies are coming in fast and furious. Having grown up around situations such as these, I know it's not easy. If you are trying to make this work you must keep your pup from being hit. I say your pup because this is the problem you asked for help with.
Is there anyone who will dog-sit while you are not at home? 
Can you take Ellie out when things become heated? 
Can you bring Ellie to work with you?

Ellie doesn't deserve any misplaced anger. Other than having a trainer come in and advise, I don't think there is another option due to your responses.

What do you think it will take to change your wife's reaction to Ellie?


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Jason, you are an attractive guy, chubby or not. And your Ellie is precious.

I would be interested in you, if you would be interested in adding 2 more goldens to your family LOL

But I would not be interested in someone who would allow another person to hurt their dog, for any reason.

STICK UP FOR YOUR ELLIE, DUDE!!! It's a very attractive quality.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

That is the sweetest picture and it speaks volumns!

1. you are NOT chubby
2. you are very handsome
3. its very apparent you love Ellie
4. you deserve to be as happy everyday as you are in that picture
5. you have very kind eyes
6. Ellie loves you and looks to you for protection

Come to Chicago Jason. I know quite a few young women that would love to have a guy like you!

Jazzys Mom


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

Okay, well you got some responses from that pic, LOL... If you end up meeting one of these fiiiinnnne ladies, you owe me one... and possibly one of the puppies that come from it  HAHA Im just kidding.... GO GET'EM TIGER.... RAAAARRRR


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Jason, I think part of the problem is that you expected we would have some magic words you could say to your wife that would snap her out of it and show her that this is an abusive way to treat the dog. Unfortunately, we don't have those words for you. Although it's not what you want to hear, you have received some sound advice on this forum. Whether it winds up being temporary or permanent, the best thing you can do for Ellie is to get her out of the house. It sounds like she would do great staying with your parents. Then you really have to get down to it and have some hard discussions with your wife. As others have stated, this is not simply a difference of opinion on how to raise a dog. It is the difference between abuse and humane treatment. I also agree with others who said if your wife is not willing to go back to counseling you should go by yourself. This can help you to either a) figure out how to save your marriage or more likely b) see that it is your wife who is throwing your vows out the window and show you how to stand up for yourself. Someone else asked what your parents think about this? I would assume that it was from them you learned your reverence for your marriage as well as your love for animals. At a time when you are having trouble reconciling these two parts of yourself, there is no one better to turn to than the wonderful people who made you into the man you are today. I know you realize this situation is wrong and unhealthy for your dog. And I can also tell by your posts that you love her very much. So please, for her and for yourself, consider seriously the advice you are being given... whether or not it is precisely what you want to hear. Talk to your parents. Go back to counseling (with the wife if she's willing, alone if she's not). And please, do right by Ellie and make sure things change one way or another starting TODAY.

Julie and Jersey


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

We are all a big family here. We all LOVE our goldens and if you read any of the Hooch threads you will see how we all care for each other. Get Ellie in a safe place and come join our family.......


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Jason, practice tough love...
next time Ellie is hit like that, call animal control...

We had something go on here between two people and I told them if they did not stop I would call 911 and let them handle it. Guess what? They know I would call in a heart beat. When adults (young adults in this case) do something that causes the authorities to be called, they can very well deal with the consequences.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Jersey's Mom said:


> Go back to counseling (with the wife if she's willing, alone if she's not).


She's already told him she doesn't need the counseling....she thinks he's the one with the problem....


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Jason I'm just so very afraid the happy loving little puppy you have now, will become a quivering fearful shell of a dog if the abuse is allowed to continue. Ellie will only become more fearful and more withdrawn if it continues.

How can you get through to your wife?
You know her best, what would make her listen?
What would make her stop?

You haven't been able to get through to her, so what is next? Ellie is suffering, how can YOU make the suffering stop?


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## jason0618 (Sep 17, 2007)

lovealways_jami said:


> Look at this face?? Here is your picture you were referring to


Yup, that's us. Of course, she's gotten much bigger since then. She's still quite adorable though. I've given it some thought. I do think you're all right. Except for the saying I'm too much of a coward to leave. That's just unnecessary... Anyway, I went outside and played with Ellie after lunch in the yard. She had a great time splashing through puddles, and came in a muddy, grimy mess. But completely happy. So I think I'll heed the advice I've been given. Of course, now I'll be waiting to see if any of the offers I've gotten from other golden loving women are true.


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

Are you going to talk to your parents?


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> Yup, that's us. Of course, she's gotten much bigger since then. She's still quite adorable though. I've given it some thought. I do think you're all right. Except for the saying I'm too much of a coward to leave. That's just unnecessary... Anyway, I went outside and played with Ellie after lunch in the yard. She had a great time splashing through puddles, and came in a muddy, grimy mess. But completely happy. So I think I'll heed the advice I've been given.


Awww thats great to hear. I hope you arent just saying that to make us feel better though!! GOOD LUCK JASON!


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## lovestofly (Feb 25, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> Yup, that's us. Of course, she's gotten much bigger since then. She's still quite adorable though. I've given it some thought. I do think you're all right. Except for the saying I'm too much of a coward to leave. That's just unnecessary... Anyway, I went outside and played with Ellie after lunch in the yard. She had a great time splashing through puddles, and came in a muddy, grimy mess. But completely happy. So I think I'll heed the advice I've been given.


Wonderful decision Jason, get Ellie safe then work on the rest. Best of luck to you and please keep us posted on how it's going.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

We are all pretty fanatical about our dogs, I apologize if I went over the top before. Sincerely, we all just want the best situation for Ellie. And we want the best for you as well, I'm sure this is not a pleasant experience for you either.

Take care of Ellie, but take care of yourself too, Ellie needs you.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

There is nothing wrong with you I agree with Jazzy'sMom on the things she listed. If your wife is treating you this way obviously you are NOT her priority neither is your happieness. I may not have a right to say this but it sounds like your marriage does not mean much to her the way it does to you. People usually work togther and comprimise to meet each others needs and desires. It does not sound like it is going to happen for you. There is no grey area here. Hopefully you figure something out for that puppy because this is abuse. People get charged and get their animals taken away for this. Please either do something with your wife or you dog this is unfair. Thats the only way to put it I'm not into sugarcoating here Jason.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Best wishes to you and your Ellie pup


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Good for you Jason! No, you are not a coward - it takes a strong man to search his mind and know that the situation youo are in is not a good productive one. If your wife were willing to work on it or could even admit that she is wrong in hitting Ellie then I would be the first to say --- TRY! But, she has shown you and told you that she won't try. You've done you best, now its time to do what is best for you and Ellie!

God Bless You!

Jazzys Mom


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Kimm said:


> Jason, practice tough love...
> next time Ellie is hit like that, call animal control...
> 
> We had something go on here between two people and I told them if they did not stop I would call 911 and let them handle it. Guess what? They know I would call in a heart beat. When adults (young adults in this case) do something that causes the authorities to be called, they can very well deal with the consequences.


Does she know and realize it's illegal to abuse your dog? Did she not see any of the public outcry against Michael Vick? I know Vick is an extreme case, but the general public is very ANTI pet abuse...


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Jason, you take care of Ellie and just remember that you have OPTIONS !!

A guy and his golden is a pretty powerful chic magnet, by the way. You know that don't you? 

IT'S TRUE !!!!! :heartbeat

I'm a girl, I know these things


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Thats good to hear! Hopefully it works out for you keep us posted and Good luck. Its just too bad something you love has to be parted with because of someones denial and refusing to change or get help. Sorry


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

RickGibbs said:


> She's already told him she doesn't need the counseling....she thinks he's the one with the problem....


I did read that, but my thought was that people who are intent on being in control will try anything to retain that control. So, if he were to set up counseling appointments without her, it is a possibility that she would get involved for fear of losing control over him. Jason, if she does decide to do this, and then shortly after decides she's not going to continue the counseling (as you state she's done before) don't let her decision stop you from continuing on your own.


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

Remember Jason, there is nothing hotter than a man who loves his dog....


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## Wheels within wheels (Nov 6, 2007)

I give you credit for seeking help, but you need to step up and do the right thing. I am not a regular poster here as you all can see, but my wife alerted me to this post.
Personally I don't care what you are willing to put up with yourself but no one, be that person or animal should be abused like you are descibing. Have some faith in yourself and do the right thing. There are people here and elsewhere that will help you. If you don't it will only get worse. Unless this whole thing is a big pack of lies you do know there is a problem, what are you expecting the people here to do for you? The dog cannot be taught to anticipate your wife's every command because that is what will end up happening. What I mean by that is that even if she beats unfailing obedience into her she will more than likely keep taking her frustrations out on a defeceless animal that only wants to love and be loved.

If don't don't stop this you are every bit as guilty as your wife, do something today!
We will all thank you, but none more than Ellie.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Good luck Jason. I hope you do this for yourself and for Ellie. 

My brother has been married to my abusive SIL for 23 years. He didn't start trying to leave until 3 years ago. He is still going back to her after separations. He would rather live with the abuse than to be alone after 23 years. It makes no sense to me, but I am a pretty confident woman and know I could live on my own. Do it now, before you get even more entrenched like my brother is. (he is in Ohio, too)

Please let us know if you need anything!


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## Cam's Mom (Apr 13, 2007)

Jason..I don't think it's been said, but perhaps she sees Ellie as competition? You do look VERY happy in that photo with Ellie, and I expect Ellie loves you and gets lots of attention. Could your wife be jealous?

While she's mad about all the posts is not a good time for discussion...you need to wait for some mutually quiet time, after she too has had time to digest everything, preferably with Ellie out of the house. It's distressing for dogs to hear arguments just as it is for kids.

I give you a great deal of credit for digesting all we've said and still replying calmly, and positively. Kudos certainly goes to you for that! I wish you and Ellie all the best, and hope we'll see you here for years to come.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> Yup, that's us. Of course, she's gotten much bigger since then. She's still quite adorable though. I've given it some thought. I do think you're all right. Except for the saying I'm too much of a coward to leave. That's just unnecessary... Anyway, I went outside and played with Ellie after lunch in the yard. She had a great time splashing through puddles, and came in a muddy, grimy mess. But completely happy. So I think I'll heed the advice I've been given. Of course, now I'll be waiting to see if any of the offers I've gotten from other golden loving women are true.


I'm glad you seem to be reading through these posts with an open mind. This community obviously cares a lot about both Ellie and you, and although frustrations have run high throughout the thread due to the passionate love people have here for their goldens, I think everyone came with the best of intentions in trying to help you help yourself (and Ellie of course). I hope you'll keep us updated on how things turn out for both of you.

Julie and Jersey


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

Jason... are you going to talk to your parents about them taking temporary care of Ellie? If I can help at all (if your parents cannot for some reason take her) please let me know... I'd be more than willing to help with transport.


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## jason0618 (Sep 17, 2007)

Lego&Jacub said:


> Jason... are you going to talk to your parents about them taking temporary care of Ellie? If I can help at all (if your parents cannot for some reason take her) please let me know... I'd be more than willing to help with transport.


I called my mom. They're going to keep her until I figure out where to go. I figure that if my wife tells me to go, it's not worth it to hang around. I'll either need to buy a house or get an apartment or something. Either way, Ellie will still be with me.


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> I called my mom. They're going to keep her until I figure out where to go. I figure that if my wife tells me to go, it's not worth it to hang around. I'll either need to buy a house or get an apartment or something. Either way, Ellie will still be with me.


YOU ARE AMAZING!!


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## kerribear's golden kids (May 17, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> I called my mom. They're going to keep her until I figure out where to go. I figure that if my wife tells me to go, it's not worth it to hang around. I'll either need to buy a house or get an apartment or something. Either way, Ellie will still be with me.


Jason, that is so wonderful to hear after reading all the posts here! Thank you for finally seeing the light and for saving yourself & Ellie.
Take care, Kerri


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> I called my mom. They're going to keep her until I figure out where to go. I figure that if my wife tells me to go, it's not worth it to hang around. I'll either need to buy a house or get an apartment or something. Either way, Ellie will still be with me.


Good for you. This must be really hard for you but you did the right thing. We are all here for you anytime you need it.


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## geonova (Nov 1, 2006)

Good job buddy, you're doing the right thing.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

That is so sweet and caring and the right thing to do. That shows courage and strength Jason. You really have a good heart and that is more important then anything else. Keep us posted we are all here to help and support you in anyway we can.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> I called my mom. They're going to keep her until I figure out where to go. I figure that if my wife tells me to go, it's not worth it to hang around. I'll either need to buy a house or get an apartment or something. Either way, Ellie will still be with me.


I'm sorry it's come to this, I know what a hard position you are in. At some point in the future you may thank Ellie for opening your eyes. Hopefully your wife will see that what is happening is serious and get some some help. It could be the beginning of getting help for both of you.

Keep both you and Ellie safe and cared for. Your parents are a good support for you as well as Ellie.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I am so glad she'll be with YOU!!!  I've been through divorce: it takes guts. We're here for you.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> I called my mom. They're going to keep her until I figure out where to go. I figure that if my wife tells me to go, it's not worth it to hang around. I'll either need to buy a house or get an apartment or something. Either way, Ellie will still be with me.


Way to go Jason! I wouldn't hang around anywhere I wasn't wanted! You are a very strong man and you are definitely doing what's best for Ellie as well as for you.Remember, we are here for you anytime the going gets rough. Just start a thread and we'll all be there for you. Bet your mom is kinda happy too!

Hugs
Jazzys Mom


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> I called my mom. They're going to keep her until I figure out where to go. I figure that if my wife tells me to go, it's not worth it to hang around. I'll either need to buy a house or get an apartment or something. Either way, Ellie will still be with me.


BRAVO, Jason! You have taken the first step to being in control of your life. You deserve SO much more, and so does Ellie. It may seem frightening, but I full well believe that you will soon come to realize that you have not been happy...but, rather you've been complacent and used to the "constancy". 
You'll be fine. You are a handsome man, obviously a caring individual, and when you and Ellie are together you will see her value as (as my son's say) a "babe magnet"! 
Good for you, Jason!!!


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

Jason... I'm soo glad that you are going to do the necessary right thing here. I do understand that this is in no way easy. It is very hard and scary to stand up to people esp. when you have been beaten down repeatedly yourself. You obviously care very deeply for Ellie, and I hope you remember to care for youself as well. I'm glad that your parents are there for you!! We are here for you too, even if you just need to chat or vent. Please keep us posted on how things go.


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## jason0618 (Sep 17, 2007)

Thanks. Things should get interesting.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

I called my mom. They're going to keep her until I figure out where to go. I figure that if my wife tells me to go, it's not worth it to hang around.

Jason...I am sorry for going off on you before! It's the Sag in me ...pretty passionate:doh: It takes a BIG man to do what you are doing ...thank you for getting temporary care for Ellie, and please stay strong and do what is best for yourself, you look to be a kind, caring handsome fellow, and Ellie a sweetheart...we are all here for you to get you through this difficult time

Regards


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> I called my mom. They're going to keep her until I figure out where to go. I figure that if my wife tells me to go, it's not worth it to hang around. I'll either need to buy a house or get an apartment or something. Either way, Ellie will still be with me.


That's fantastic for Ellie, and for you as well! I do think you've known all along what needed to be done, but doing the right thing sometimes means taking the hard road. Although this was a difficult decision to make, I think you'll find things will get easier from here on out because you are taking charge of your life. Good luck to you, keep us updated, and give that sweet little pooch and extra hug and a kiss from all of us!

Julie and Jersey


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> Thanks. Things should get interesting.


Just keep coming here. There are always people here to listen and ......as you found out give advice....lol


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## mdoats (Jun 7, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> I called my mom. They're going to keep her until I figure out where to go. I figure that if my wife tells me to go, it's not worth it to hang around. I'll either need to buy a house or get an apartment or something. Either way, Ellie will still be with me.


I really believe that is the smartest thing to do. It won't be easy though. Be prepared for some anger and some tears from your wife. Be prepared for some manipulation. She is likely to rage at you, followed by a tearful apology and a promise never to do it again if she sees you're serious about leaving. She may even mean it. She may even agree to go to counseling and then go once or twice before deciding there's really nothing wrong with her and dropping it again. This is a typical pattern for abusers, but the behavior almost always starts up again eventually unless there is extensive counseling.

If you can get your folks to agree, I'd suggest getting the dog out of the house immediately. Ideally, I'd want the dog out of the house by the time your wife gets home from work. Then you can talk to her about this issue without worrying about her targeting Ellie and "making her pay" for it. Your parents can take care of the dog until you're either settled in a new place or your wife has gone through extensive counseling.

Even if your wife agrees to counseling, I think it would be a good thing for you to move out. You can always move back later if your wife agrees to counseling and she goes regularly.

Good luck to you. Making a decision like this is very hard. Sticking with it can be harder. Whatever you end up deciding for yourself, please stick with your decision to let Ellie live with your parents for now.


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## davebeech (Feb 11, 2006)

jason0618 said:


> I called my mom. They're going to keep her until I figure out where to go. I figure that if my wife tells me to go, it's not worth it to hang around. I'll either need to buy a house or get an apartment or something. Either way, Ellie will still be with me.


Top Man Jason, I wish you and Ellie all the best, oh and you've just found one of the reasons she is with you.


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

mdoats said:


> I really believe that is the smartest thing to do. It won't be easy though. Be prepared for some anger and some tears from your wife. Be prepared for some manipulation. She is likely to rage at you, followed by a tearful apology and a promise never to do it again if she sees you're serious about leaving. She may even mean it. She may even agree to go to counseling and then go once or twice before deciding there's really nothing wrong with her and dropping it again. This is a typical pattern for abusers, but the behavior almost always starts up again eventually unless there is extensive counseling.
> 
> If you can get your folks to agree, I'd suggest getting the dog out of the house immediately. Ideally, I'd want the dog out of the house by the time your wife gets home from work. Then you can talk to her about this issue without worrying about her targeting Ellie and "making her pay" for it. Your parents can take care of the dog until you're either settled in a new place or your wife has gone through extensive counseling.
> 
> ...


I agree people who are abusive can be VERY manipulative... please, please take care of yourself in the days ahead. You really do deserve sooo much better. No one deserves this kind of treatment, esp. by those who profess to love you.

Just wanted to add that RESPECT is the very LEAST you should be able to expect from a spouce... even if they don't agree with you, they should be able to give you respect.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Hang in there Jason! You have a ton of support here.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Good for you...

Im dying to know what your mom said.....but I wont ask....:curtain:

Now the practical stuff...No sense sugar coating anything now....

You wife is likely just going to shift her aggression toward you...stay calm whatever you do stay neutral and dont add fuel to her fire......you are acting differently then you always did...so she will have to try different tactics to get the same predictable response (yes by-golly that does sound like dog training!)

Make a plan...call an attorney today to set up an appointment just for advice...just talking to an attorney doesnt mean you are divorcing tomorrow, however...if things dont go well with your wife....you need to start coming up with a plan...

You need advice how to document and keep your wife from getting her mitts on your dog...I've seen it and I am sure others have too...all of a sudden the spouse that disliked the dog...suddenly wanted shared custody....and used the dogs to torment the other person....

Is only your name on Ellie's AKC papers or does you wife's name appear also?
Whose name is listed as the contact person at the vet's office?
Who is listed on her dog license at your town office?
Have you taken her to obedience classes?
Who buys the toys/food/flea and heartworm medications? Any chance the purchases are on a credit card for easy documentation...


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## jcasks (Oct 14, 2007)

Jason - People like you and your wife make it sad to come to this forum. I understand you came for advice, but honestly what do you expect golden lovers to tell you. I hope you know that as much as your say you love your dog, YOU ARE JUST AS MUCH THE ABUSER as your wife, by letting her do this. 

Knowing people like this exist is pathetic.


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## jason0618 (Sep 17, 2007)

LibertyME said:


> Good for you...
> 
> Im dying to know what your mom said.....but I wont ask....:curtain:
> 
> ...


Nope, I"m the only one on Ellie's AKC paperwork, I'm the listed person at the vet's office, (shhh, I didn't get her licensed yet.) Yes, she's been to obedience classes, puppy kindergarten, and I'm the opne who buys the food, etc. Everything I buiy is put on the debit card. Seriously, I may have $6 in cash in my wallet that's probably been there for as many months.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

jcasks said:


> Jason - People like you and your wife make it sad to come to this forum. I understand you came for advice, but honestly what do you expect golden lovers to tell you. I hope you know that as much as your say you love your dog, YOU ARE JUST AS MUCH THE ABUSER as your wife, by letting her do this.
> 
> Knowing people like this exist is pathetic.


I'm not trying to be critical, so please don't take this the wrong way: I'm assuming you may have just stumbled upon this thread and reading the early pages felt compelled to respond in order to help protect the dog. Please skip ahead to pages (i believe) 10 and 12 where Jason has made comments. He has contacted his parents and they have agreed to take the dog until he can find a place to live. I just don't want to see this conversation regress after progress has been made. Again, no offense, as I surely understand your impulse to respond immediately upon seeing the situation the dog has been in.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

jason0618 said:


> Both. Newspapers or magazines if there's one around, hands if not...
> And just as an example... This morning, my wife gets up before I do in the morning. She took Ellie out to go to the bathroom, and started yelling out the door at her. Then, when she came back inside, I heard her hit Ellie ELEVEN times. Keep in mind, I'm upstairs in bed at 6:45 am and I heard this. I went downstairs, and was informed of Ellie's crime: She didn't go poop. Yep, you read it right. Ellie didn't have to poop, so she got hit 11 times. We ended up arguing, and that's how things were when she left for work.
> I absolutely do NOT want to rehome Ellie. Just looking at her right now, I know she's happiest when my wife isn't here. She's all stretched out getting ready to go to napland. I hate this.


PLEASE get this dog out of your home immediately!!! Your wife is an animal abuser, plain and simple. I won't sugarcoat it to make it seem nicer - GET THE DOG OUT OF YOUR HOUSE!!!! She doesn't deserve to be beaten!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## jason0618 (Sep 17, 2007)

jcasks said:


> Jason - People like you and your wife make it sad to come to this forum. I understand you came for advice, but honestly what do you expect golden lovers to tell you. I hope you know that as much as your say you love your dog, YOU ARE JUST AS MUCH THE ABUSER as your wife, by letting her do this.
> 
> Knowing people like this exist is pathetic.


Have you considered maybe reading all posts before making a response?


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## Rosco's Mom (May 1, 2007)

jcasks said:


> Jason - People like you and your wife make it sad to come to this forum. I understand you came for advice, but honestly what do you expect golden lovers to tell you. I hope you know that as much as your say you love your dog, YOU ARE JUST AS MUCH THE ABUSER as your wife, by letting her do this.
> 
> Knowing people like this exist is pathetic.


Whoa tiger.....No need for name calling....

Did you even read the whole thread? He's keep the dog and kicking out the wife.


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## lovestofly (Feb 25, 2007)

Jason YOU ROCK! My husband was in a loveless marriage for 30+ years and after all was said and done he said it's the BEST thing he ever did, he now isn't afraid to open his mouth and is finally HAPPY! Best of luck to you!!!


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## bizzy (Mar 30, 2007)

congradulations on making a VERY hard decison. Just look into ellie's eyes and remember how she looks when she is happy and that is why you are doing this. You love your wife and that is great. Sometimes the ones we love are broken and need help but aren't able to see that themselves yet. This is one of the hardest things in life because we want to help and fix the ones we love. Sometimes the best Help we can give is the leave. Rock THEIR world. This can be a catlyst for change and there may be a happy ending. But YOU need to be ok for it to go either way. YOU are important to. Love is not a reason place yourself endlessly in a bad situation. I wish you the best of luck and come here if you need a shoulder to lean on.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

*Yes, folks, let's PLEASE read the entire thread before replying. Thanks! *


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## jcasks (Oct 14, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> Have you considered maybe reading all posts before making a response?


Jason - I actually didnt read all posts before I posted that, but I still stand by what I said. You say you are doing something about it, maybe you are, maybe you arent. But you still let it go on for too long and you should be ashamed of that.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Lets move onto the positive things  Jason is working towards resolving a very tough issue. Kudos to you, Jason.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

jason0618 said:


> I never once indicated that I think abuse is fine under any circumstance. I don't. I just didn't write to be told to rehmoe my dog. I just was looking for advice on how to make my wife understand that hitting Ellie does nothing positive. Turning it around and saying that I'm "just as guilty" for "allowing" it to continue is not the advice I want or need. I realize there are other women out there. Beyond that, I have no problems with being single. I didn't get married until I was 27 and I was single t a lot before that, by choice. I"m just not the "My wife hit my dog, so I'm leaving her" kind of guy.
> That being said, she came home for lunch and I told her about all of this... Needless to say, she's not a big fan of goldenretrieverforum.com not that anyone cares what her opinion is. She's also said she will NOT go to counseling because I have a problem with the way she deals with the dog, and that if I'm not happy to "get my happy ass out". So there we are.


Your dog doesn't deserve to be beaten while your wife figures out how to control her anger. You have a voice, but Ellie does not. You have to speak for her. She is completely innocent and trusting - she takes that abuse without complaint. It's wrong. I will never make excuses for an animal abuser. Some truths are hard to swallow. The truth here is you have to protect this dog. 

I give you a lot of credit for coming here - you sound like a nice guy...and chubby 29 year olds with big hearts are catches in my book!


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> *Yes, folks, let's PLEASE read the entire thread before replying. Thanks! *


This one is a little hard to not respond to before reading to the end.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Agreed- I didn't mean that in a nasty way. I am just very happy to see how it HAS progressed.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

jcasks said:


> Jason - I actually didnt read all posts before I posted that, but I still stand by what I said. You say you are doing something about it, maybe you are, maybe you arent. But you still let it go on for too long and you should be ashamed of that.


I think this is a little unnecessary. Sometimes people need a (figurative) kick int he rear to make tough choices, even if they already know they're the right ones. Jason came here today looking for help, and despite his initial resistance he was able to give us an open mind and is now working proactively to make a change, both for the dog and himself. The most important thing we can do now is to support him through this transition, not attack him for a past he cannot change. He's changing the only thing he can, the present and the future and that counts for a lot in my book.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Lets move onto the positive things  Jason is working towards resolving a very tough issue. Kudos to you, Jason.


I think we all will be happy to move on once we know Ellie is safe and don't have to imagine her being beaten. Jason - I truly hope you will be successful in getting Ellie out.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

jcasks said:


> Jason - I actually didnt read all posts before I posted that, but I still stand by what I said. You say you are doing something about it, maybe you are, maybe you arent. But you still let it go on for too long and you should be ashamed of that.


 
This has all been gone over earlier. Let's not go through it again, doing that won't help the situation. Jason is standing strong and doing something about it now so lets all back him up. If you can't back him then just don't say anything. He needs our help so lets help him and not bash him when he's down.

Stay strong Jason. We have your back. Give that sweet Ellie a big kiss from Chicago!

Jazzys Mom


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Jersey's Mom said:


> I think this is a little unnecessary. Sometimes people need a (figurative) kick int he rear to make tough choices, even if they already know they're the right ones. Jason came here today looking for help, and despite his initial resistance he was able to give us an open mind and is now working proactively to make a change, both for the dog and himself. The most important thing we can do now is to support him through this transition, not attack him for a past he cannot change. He's changing the only thing he can, the present and the future and that counts for a lot in my book.


I don't know you, but I love you already!


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## ID_Hannah (Jun 8, 2006)

Jason, I'm glad to see you're working on making changes. I imagine it will be very difficult, but you do have a lot of support here.

I'm just curious, I was looking back through your posts to find the photos of Ellie and came across this post about your JRT. http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/other-pets/21616-heres-my-other-baby-dog.html

Is he still with you? I hope he's not been subjected to the same treatment that Ellie has been.


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## jcasks (Oct 14, 2007)

I guess this is just a sensitive subject for me. I agree I shouldnt post negatively and focus on the positive so I apologize for that. Just picturing everything that has gone on with poor Ellie gets me a little bit fired up!


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## jason0618 (Sep 17, 2007)

ID_Hannah said:


> Jason, I'm glad to see you're working on making changes. I imagine it will be very difficult, but you do have a lot of support here.
> 
> I'm just curious, I was looking back through your posts to find the photos of Ellie and came across this post about your JRT. http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/other-pets/21616-heres-my-other-baby-dog.html
> 
> Is he still with you? I hope he's not been subjected to the same treatment that Ellie has been.


Nope, he's still here, and gets treated like royalty.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

jcasks, I do understand that 

Jason, how odd- so she never mistreats the JRT? Was that her dog?


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> jcasks, I do understand that
> 
> Jason, how odd- so she never mistreats the JRT? Was that her dog?


Very strange??


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> Nope, I"m the only one on Ellie's AKC paperwork, I'm the listed person at the vet's office, (shhh, I didn't get her licensed yet.) Yes, she's been to obedience classes, puppy kindergarten, and I'm the opne who buys the food, etc. Everything I buiy is put on the debit card. Seriously, I may have $6 in cash in my wallet that's probably been there for as many months.


That will make proving ownership much easier....Find her AKC papers...Get your dogs licensed...Gather up vet bills...recipets.....
Round up all of her documents and store them at your parents for safe keeping...


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## jason0618 (Sep 17, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> jcasks, I do understand that
> 
> Jason, how odd- so she never mistreats the JRT? Was that her dog?


Well, he started out as "our" dog, but he's gone to basically being hers now. He jumps on the couch and snuggles in her lap all the time. She's totally different with him than with Ellie.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

jcasks said:


> I guess this is just a sensitive subject for me. I agree I shouldnt post negatively and focus on the positive so I apologize for that. Just picturing everything that has gone on with poor Ellie gets me a little bit fired up!


I think that is totally understandable. The truth is none of us knows the people who post here and how much of the real story they share...look at GRM... When we read of a dog in danger we react with our hearts and guts first. I think it's big of you to apologize.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> Nope, he's still here, and gets treated like royalty.


That's strange. I can only think that she treats Ellie like an ugly stepchild because Ellie is your dog. Transference maybe? Wow! You've turned us all into armchair psycologists! Does sound though that she is taking her anger out on Ellie for some reason. I just have to ask this ---- do you have a church? Maybe talking to your Pastor would help

Jazzys Mom

jcasks ---- understandable! We were all their earlier!


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

jason0618 said:


> Well, he started out as "our" dog, but he's gone to basically being hers now. He jumps on the couch and snuggles in her lap all the time. She's totally different with him than with Ellie.


Hmmm...did your wife have a bad experience with a large dog at some point in her life?


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## jason0618 (Sep 17, 2007)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> I think that is totally understandable. The truth is none of us knows the people who post here and how much of the real story they share...look at GRM... When we read of a dog in danger we react with our hearts and guts first. I think it's big of you to apologize.


What is GRM?


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

GRM stands for Gold Rocks Mom. She was a breeder that was on this forum and completely duped everyone!

Jazzys Mom


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## jcasks (Oct 14, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> What is GRM?


 
UH OH----thats a wholenother chapter!!!


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## jason0618 (Sep 17, 2007)

Jazzys Mom said:


> That's strange. I can only think that she treats Ellie like an ugly stepchild because Ellie is your dog. Transference maybe? Wow! You've turned us all into armchair psycologists! Does sound though that she is taking her anger out on Ellie for some reason. I just have to ask this ---- do you have a church? Maybe talking to your Pastor would help
> 
> Jazzys Mom
> 
> jcasks ---- understandable! We were all their earlier!


As for a church... Yes, sort of. I go to church regularly, and try to lead a decent lifestyle. My wife went to church at our wedding. Never since then. Most of the people at my church probably think I'm single.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

jcasks said:


> UH OH----thats a wholenother chapter!!!


You've got that right!::::::


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

Jason,

A very difficult decision has been made by you so it's onwards & upwards (with a pile of bumps along the way!) Keep your head up and Ellie will be there with the cuddles and kisses when you feel the most down.

On the positive side - I used to billet Jr. A hockey players - age 16 to 21 years of age. They used to practically "fight" about who got to take the dogs for a walk as they were total chick magnets!!!!

Good luck in your (& Ellie's) life

((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> As for a church... Yes, sort of. I go to church regularly, and try to lead a decent lifestyle. My wife went to church at our wedding. Never since then. Most of the people at my church probably think I'm single.


Do you think it would help if you talked to your Pastor or some friends at church? We are all here for you but lets face it ---- we HAVE NO FACES!: It helps to talk to someone you can actually see face to face sometimes

Jazzys Mom


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

I wonder if maybe because its a smaller breed... she cuddles... etc. I know its tough to cuddle with a 60 LB GR... I bet thats what it is... she doesnt seem to find the comfort in her GR. 
More responsiblity in a GR too... I personally think thats what it is... too much responsiblity. I small dog suits her, less maintenance.. what do yall think?


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

jcasks: I fully understand the knee-jerk reaction to speak out immediately and strongly in defense of the dog. As I'm sure you can see throughout the thread, everyone else had the opportunity to rage about the situation earlier. And it's very admirable that you are willing to support Jason in the decision he is making now. I would have to imagine that if I stumbled on this at this point, I probably would have reacted the same way at first. 

Jason: I would never have guessed you guys had another dog! Once Ellie is safely out of the house, be sure that she does not transfer her frustration to this other dog. At the first sign of trouble, hopefully you will be able to get that dog to your parents also. I can't even begin to guess what would cause her to react so differently to the two dogs. Is the JRT's paperwork set up the same as Ellie's with only your name on the AKC papers and such? If so, seriously consider the option of protecting this dog before she has the opportunity to turn on him.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I defintely "prefer" my clean, well mannered Whippets to, say, my partner's muddy, messy, nutty golden over all, and they have some furniture privilages and so forth that the Golden does not. And I am closer to them- they are MINE and are more attached to me than to her. But I cannot IMAGINE mistreating my partner's Golden. (And for the record I have a big, messy, shedding, goofy Golden myself, too!) We may be odd in this house that I definitely have my own dogs and my partner has her own dog- and we are not as attached to eachothers' dogs as we are to our own. But the mistreatment of one, is just plain bizarre.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Oh, I don't know Jami. We all know how cuddly Goldens are. Mine climbs up on top of the couch cushions and lays across my shoulders. I think her abuse goes much deeper than that. 

Jazzys Mom


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

lovealways_jami said:


> I wonder if maybe because its a smaller breed... she cuddles... etc. I know its tough to cuddle with a 60 LB GR... I bet thats what it is... she doesnt seem to find the comfort in her GR.
> More responsiblity in a GR too... I personally think thats what it is... too much responsiblity. I small dog suits her, less maintenance.. what do yall think?


I've NEVER had a problem cuddling with my 60 lb GR. He's a big snuggle-bug!


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## jcasks (Oct 14, 2007)

Jazzys Mom said:


> Oh, I don't know Jami. We all know how cuddly Goldens are. Mine climbs up on top of the couch cushions and lays across my shoulders. I think her abuse goes much deeper than that.
> 
> Jazzys Mom


I second that!! Goldens are super cuddly


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I think she feels threatened by Ellie. I think Ellie represents something very different about Jason that his wife is not accustomed to. She feels out of control now and she's angry because she's fearful and she feels safer striking out at Ellie than she does at Jason. 

Maybe she didn't have as much say in getting Ellie as Jason did? Jason, what was that process like for you two as a couple, bringing Ellie into your home?

At any rate, Jason, so glad to hear you're beginning to see the need to take different steps, for yourself, for Ellie. Life's a journey, but one thing's for certain -- you take good care of Ellie and all that love and care you show her will come back to you tenfold and more. You will have a best friend, a soulmate, a cherished relationship for years to come and a memory to hold dear til the end of your days. Stay strong !!

There's a chat forum on here. Please feel free to come in sometime, there's usually a group of us there in the evenings, chatting about whatever. You're more than welcome to join us !!!

:wave:


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I do find it harder to cuddle with a dog that is getting hair or sand on my clothes and sofa, that is panting in my face, that smells like a dog (even a clean dog, but still smells like a dog), or that is wiggling around like an ass- all things Whippets do not do. On the other hand, I can bond in different ways with my Golden- playing ball, long outside walks in any weather, swimming, training for hours... all of which are ALSO things Whippets do not do LOL so I like both "types" of dogs- some people really don't and are not suited to one, the other, or either! While I CAN understand that, it does NOT make this whole situation of abusing one make any more sense. My guess would be because YOU love Ellie, and she doesn't like that.


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

Jazzys Mom said:


> Oh, I don't know Jami. We all know how cuddly Goldens are. Mine climbs up on top of the couch cushions and lays across my shoulders. I think her abuse goes much deeper than that.
> 
> Jazzys Mom


I can just see the reaction though.... I cuddle with D too, but someone who isnt used to the bigger breed may not find comfort in it. To be honest, hes my best friend, and best cuddler in the world. But some/most other people who come to the house and Diesel is all over sees him as a hassle, he bothers them. I think that GR's are not for everyone. Its a preference for people who do have to unconditional love. I love all animals, but never like a GR. I agree that the abuse goes deeper... but I can see where someone who doesnt love this big of dog could get "annoyed" with them.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

AGREED Goldens LOVE to cuddle... even if I don't want the cuddle at the time LOL


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Yes, exactly Jami... a golden is a LOT of big, messy, hairy, panting dog... my mom thinks they're precious dogs and sees why I like them, but she'd NEVER ever want one in her house and can totally understand why. If I had a house as nice as hers, I would only have sighthounds. 

All of this said- again, and again, it NEVER makes abuse okay!!! Be sure what you're getting into before getting ANY dog!


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

My husband is nice to "my" golden, but he doesn't feel the same adoration for him as he does for Jasmine and Danny. 

Me on the other hand, adore all of them totally and completely and cannot imagine life without any one of them. I feel the same about the cats, too (except for the random pee-er. She pushes her luck!).


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## bluebomberx (May 23, 2007)

I've thumbed through this thread to know the problem, confrontation, and the decision you made and I wish the best of luck to you, sir. I only offer a single demented/humorous-to-some thought. If you were to beat the bejeezus out of your wife every time you came home from work, would she eventually figure out it's because dinner wasn't on the table? Probably not...

DISCLAIMER: I do not condone spousal abuse. Just have a twisted sense of humor sometimes


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

That's why my #1 rule is ALWAYS take your dog along on the first date !!

ROTFLMBO


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> That's why my #1 rule is ALWAYS take your dog along on the first date !!
> 
> ROTFLMBO


That's priceless! ROFLMBO too!


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

ha ha, just try to stay away from the skunks. that happened to me on a first date once -- he never called me back !!!


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> ha ha, just try to stay away from the skunks. that happened to me on a first date once -- he never called me back !!!


That's probably because HE WAS a skunk!! LOL


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> That's why my #1 rule is ALWAYS take your dog along on the first date !!
> 
> ROTFLMBO


That's funny & so true. When I was in the dating world (just a few years ago) I would always introduce my date to my golden & then make an excuse to leave the room. I would "spy" to see what his reaction to the dog was WHEN I wasn't in sight. There were a couple of guys who were asked to leave after their attitude change was not impressive & I never saw them again. 
There were also the guys who brought me flowers & treats for the dog!  Now they earned brownie points!


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

AGREE AGUA!! For someone who isnt prepared for such a responsibility, it can be overwhelming, but not an excuse!! Im just trying to find some sort of comfort for Jason!! Trying to figure out WHY... or WHAT may be causing her to react this way...


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

I think the best is to let the dogs get filthy and muddy then let the dogs jump all over him or be Tux and really jump on them and hit them in the man spot and see how mad or how quick they are to snap!! Just call tricky LOL


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

Wow, I just returned from a trip to Sacramento after reading Jason's original post early this morning. I am so proud of you, Jason, for making a life-changing decision and doing what is best for both Ellie and you. I know it won't be easy, but you both deserve a much better, happier life, and you'll be better off in the long run, regardless of the final outcome. Animal abuse is never OK, regardless of the underlying cause. You are a courageous young man, and you are to be admired and respected for your decision to protect Ellie and yourself. Please come to the forum any time for support or advice (or have you had enough of our advice for a while?) and keep us posted.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Jami, I totally understand what you're saying. A golden retriever is a whole lot of dog and definitely not a dog for everyone. Golden retriever owners are every bit as special as their dogs :wave:


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## Sivin (Nov 23, 2006)

Jason,

I've been skimming through this thread and I really think you're going to have to rehome your wife. If she treats Ellie that way how will she treat any children you might have? How does she treat you? Is she from a cultural background where this is all well and good? Makes no difference, what she is doing is abusing an animal. Shame on her and shame on you for putting up with it. Your wife is one angry cookie and I wouldn't want to be in the same house with her. If you insist on staying there, then do Ellie a favor and find her a situation with love, gentleness and stability.

Helaine


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## Sivin (Nov 23, 2006)

Jason,

Just looking through your past postings. How does your wife treat your terrier?

Helaine


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

Sivin said:


> Jason,
> 
> Just looking through your past postings. How does your wife treat your terrier?
> 
> Helaine


He says great... like royalty... thats where I started thinking it was a size thing


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## Rosco's Mom (May 1, 2007)

i don't think its a size thing...She treats the small dog better because it's *her* dog.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Yup, I LOVE Goldens for some special reasons, but will be the first to admit they, or ANY breed, are not for everyone. 

I am a snob who doesn't like doggy dogs- I would never EVER own a Lab or most other big sloppy dogs. But I LOVE Goldens... there is just something so special about a Golden...

They remind me what is important. They love and hug me when no one else (including my Whippets) will. They make me laugh. They keep me humble. They keep my house lived in and slightly doggy. They are beautiful. They make people smile. They bring me friendships and joys. There is something truly special about this breed.


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## Goldndust (Jul 30, 2005)

I've read all I care too! Your wife has a serious problem, she needs help. Sorry if have offended you, but hitting a dog for eleven times simply because it wouldn't go too the bathroom is abuse and total rage out of this person. Right now forget your wants to save this dog from harm and beatings for any old thing, fight it a new home quickly before it is too late!

Nothing human or animal learns by hitting or beating, it may learn to fear someone or a hand but fear in itself will not teach anything. 

Dumb question, why don't you just stand up to her? I do not understand anyone not running down the stairs to save a dog from a beating when it's heard in there own home!!! I don't understand you at all!!! Someone beats on my dogs, they better watch out because I fight back!!

ACC, I shall defend my lab! They are not big sloppy dogs, they are everybit as sweet as the goldens are. Very little difference between the two. We all love our dogs no matter what breed, I wouldn't be much of an owner if I didn't defend my breeds. I will own anything that needs a home, I love my goldens but I also have a special place for a dog in need...I do not pick breeds most times, they pick me.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

He is leaving his wife and the dog is going to stay at his mom's... keep reading


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## Scorpio118 (Jul 9, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> I can't believe this. I came and asked for advice, and it's dongraded itself to telling me all about what a horrible person my wife is. I realize this is a golden forum, and that I'll get golden oriented responses, but seriously... I married her, and that's not something I take lightly. If I were just dating her, yeah, there'd be no questions asked. But this is marriage. I'm also not going to live my life without my dog just because she and I have some differing opinions on how to raise a dog. This isn't an "every day three times a day" occurence... It just happens sometimes, and I wanted to know if anyone could give me some advice on what to do about it.


 
Plain and simple.......... YOU'RE A F***** ******* FOR PUTTING UP WITH YOUR WIFE IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!! How many pages will it take for you to realize that? I got through a few pages and cant possibly read any more!!

YOU'RE AN ASS FOR ACTUALLY COUNTING THE HITS.......... what kind of IDIOT DOES THAT? Here - let me smack you around 11 times... see if you like it!!

YOU MAKE ME SICK!!!! 

Hey - the moderators here should be able to find out who you are - where you live and call the cops on you themselves!! 

If this is a sick joke - then I hope you rot in hell you sick *******!!

F****** idiot............


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Scorpio118 said:


> Plain and simple.......... YOU'RE A &*^%$&* @!!#$%^ FOR PUTTING UP WITH YOUR WIFE IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!! How many pages will it take for you to realize that? I got through a few pages and cant possibly read any more!!
> 
> YOU'RE AN $%% FOR ACTUALLY COUNTING THE HITS.......... what kind of IDIOT DOES THAT? Here - let me smack you around 11 times... see if you like it!!
> 
> ...


This is very uncalled for! Have you even read the whole thread??? This type of language is not appropriate. There are teens that read this forum. We are supposed to be helpful, not hurtful. Your the idiot!

Jazzys Mom


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Agreed, and I am awaiting permission from more experienced mods to delete or edit that post. Opinions are one thing- pure hate and swearing are another.

I respect you Scorpio, but I think this is over the top. Hate doesn't accomplish anything.

Jazzy you could edit the swears out of your quotation of the original post if you wanted... lol


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Woops! I didn't even think too I was so outraged. I'll do that now!

Jazzys Mom


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I agree with Joe's general rule of not deleting anything. That said my worry is just that this will just cause a continuation of hurt to someone who has made some pretty bold and difficult choices today. I can hope that perhaps you, Scorpio, will read the thread and then post any thoughts you have about the OP moving forward with his dog.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

OK, we've all agreed that hitting a dog is never justified. Jason is taking action to protect Ellie and deal with his wife's issues. Vicious personal attacks are not warranted or helpful, in my opinion. Why would anyone ever come to this forum for advice if they're going to be subjected to vicious attacks?! I may be a newbie, but this sort of response is totally inappropriate.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Okay Okay OKAY !!! 

I've known Scorp for many years, and GoldenDust. They are WONDERFUL PEOPLE !!! They are exemplary golden owners who care very much for their dogs. 

Obviously they did not read through the entire thread, and that's hard to do, it's very long.

We all understand the anger. I do myself. The motives are good and pure. 

_Deep breath everyone_...


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Jackson'sMom said:


> OK, we've all agreed that hitting a dog is never justified. Jason is taking action to protect Ellie and deal with his wife's issues. Vicious personal attacks are not warranted or helpful, in my opinion. Why would anyone ever come to this forum for advice if they're going to be subjected to vicious attacks?! I may be a newbie, but this sort of response is totally inappropriate.


Agreed. Completely.


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## bluebomberx (May 23, 2007)

Revelation on page 10. 

I have no doubt everyone here is pretty decent. Don't make an ass of yourself because you only read the first three pages.


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## Carsonsdaddy (Nov 1, 2006)

Scorpio118 said:


> Plain and simple.......... YOU'RE A F***** ******* FOR PUTTING UP WITH YOUR WIFE IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!! How many pages will it take for you to realize that? I got through a few pages and cant possibly read any more!!
> 
> YOU'RE AN ASS FOR ACTUALLY COUNTING THE HITS.......... what kind of IDIOT DOES THAT? Here - let me smack you around 11 times... see if you like it!!
> 
> ...


That is just plain un-called for and I've edited it out. This is a family forum....please remember that when posting. 

That being said.... I've tried to stay out of this thread all day, but I guess it's time I said my piece.

#1: Abusing an animal for ANY reason is unacceptable, and makes me sick.

#2: I'm not a marriage counselor...and unless I miss my guess no one else on here is either. What gives us the right to tell Jason what to do with his life? I want the dog out of that situation as much as anyone else, but that doesn't mean I'm going to tell someone to end their marriage. Get the dog out, and THEN deal with the rest. My suggestion: Get the dog out of that house, and then talk to someone who is qualified to help you with your marriage. Your Pastor would be a good place to start. 

#3: We don't know the whole story. That doesn't justify her actions, but it sounds to me like there is more going on than just her beating the dog. We don't know all of it....so how can we tell him to end the relationship with only half of the story??? 

These are just my thoughts....thanks for listening.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Jeremy.....I couldn't have said it better...

Well, I probably could've, but still.....good points...


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## parrothead (Nov 1, 2007)

Why do I get the feeling this whole thing is a prank ?


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## bluebomberx (May 23, 2007)

parrothead said:


> Why do I get the feeling this whole thing is a prank ?


God I hope someone doesn't have that much spare time...


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

parrothead said:


> Why do I get the feeling this whole thing is a prank ?


That thought also crossed my mind..... You never know...


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Thanks guys. I was going to edit it myself but wanted advice from the men first- OMG did I just say that? LOL!


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

bluebomberx said:


> God I hope someone doesn't have that much spare time...


It wouldn't be the first time, though....


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## Emmysourgolden (Oct 10, 2007)

K, just read the whole thread and a big high five to you Jason!!! 

First, way to go on sticking around and listening to us go off on you. A lot of people would have never come back! I was one of them and apologize for being harsh...just love dogs and it made me so sad to picture what you were saying... It made me think of my dog, Emmy, coming in the back door and someone hitting her 11 times because she didn't poo... 

Second, your picture and how you said earlier that you had a chubby face so who would want you or something to that regard. My hubby has a chubby face (and belly ) and a heart of gold, LOVE HIM TO PIECES!! Sounds like you have just as big of a heart and I totally agree about a golden being a chick magnet. Not that this is important while you're still married. But, I want to congratulate you on being commited to your marraige...that is also attractive! But I agree that staying in an abusive marriage is not expected of anyone! I'm curious if your wife has made reference to "your chubby face"...I hate saying that because you are handsome. 

And finally, stick around this forum. Let the good things everyone has said soak in and believe them. Go talk to someone. I did this because I had zero self esteem and I'm a happier person because of it. There's no shame in talking to someone.

Way to go, Jason. Hang in there and keep us updated!!! We are here for you and Ellie!!


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Thanks guys. I was going to edit it myself but wanted advice from the men first- OMG did I just say that? LOL!


Oh....you know you want me....


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> Okay Okay OKAY !!!
> 
> I've known Scorp for many years, and GoldenDust. They are WONDERFUL PEOPLE !!! They are exemplary golden owners who care very much for their dogs.
> 
> ...


Can you send them PMs to read the entire thread and to edit their posts? I understand the anger and frustration. I have been there and felt that earlier today. 

But there is a fine line that needs to be walked. Attacking someone is not the way to make things all better. I am positive that these are very nice posters who just got over emotional. But it would be good if they edited now.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Actually, I want your sister, Rick

And EmmySourGolden, thanks for that post


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop re-quoting scorpio's post!!!! It's very easy to understand both his/her anger, and the angry responses his/her replies precipitated. But, requoting it is simply drawing more attention to it.

Jason, just know that there is a community here that will stand behind you and help lift you when you are feeling down. And also know that my offer to bring Ellie here if that would in any way help you, stands. Just say the word. You have a lot of work to do and I personally admire you for having the courage to adress it head on.
You're a good man.

I am of the opinion that perhaps it might be time to put this thread to bed...It's very long, and members might come in and not be inclined to read the entire thing, getting up to speed, and then make posts such as scorpios. We've all been VERY good and don't want yet another blow-out - Hooch is counting on us!


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Emmysourgolden said:


> First, way to go on sticking around and listening to us go off on you.


I agree..... I think we can all agree that most of us here are pretty passionate about our dogs and dogs in general... And there's no way a subject like this is gonna come out without some serious emotions coming out....


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## jason0618 (Sep 17, 2007)

Unfortunately, this thread isn't a big prank. That'd be a pretty dumb prank to pull.


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## dmfla (Aug 1, 2007)

Jason, 
I understand what your talking about here in a manner of speaking, I didnt have the abuse going on in my home but i had to make the same sort of decision on family members. I had told my now ex to never make me choose between her and my dogs, it came to that and I chose the dogs naturally. I moved her out and the puppy in, lol. Be strong and follow your heart. From what i've read in this thread, Ellie and you will be much happier in the long run.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

fostermom said:


> But there is a fine line that needs to be walked. Attacking someone is not the way to make things all better.


Attacking will only run him off....then what good are we?


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Actually, I want your sister, Rick


Awwww crap....


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## Emmysourgolden (Oct 10, 2007)

fostermom said:


> Can you send them PMs to read the entire thread and to edit their posts? I understand the anger and frustration. I have been there and felt that earlier today.
> 
> But there is a fine line that needs to be walked. Attacking someone is not the way to make things all better. I am positive that these are very nice posters who just got over emotional. But it would be good if they edited now.


Yeah, I read though how many pages and ALMOST posted before getting to the end. Just saw so many more pages ahead that I figured something big had happened so I better get to the end before commenting. Otherwise I would have had like 18 posts right in a row!


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

RickGibbs said:


> Attacking will only run him off....then what good are we?


Thanks. That was my point.

Jason needs support right now.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

jason0618 said:


> Unfortunately, this thread isn't a big prank. That'd be a pretty dumb prank to pull.


I didn't think it was......but the thought did cross my mind....

I only hope you are reading between the lines and getting the advice you really need. Just look into Ellie's eyes and you know where the anger comes from....

But despite some of the mean and hurtful stuff said, there's been some good helpful posts as well....


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## jason0618 (Sep 17, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> I am of the opinion that perhaps it might be time to put this thread to bed...It's very long, and members might come in and not be inclined to read the entire thing, getting up to speed, and then make posts such as scorpios. We've all been VERY good and don't want yet another blow-out - Hooch is counting on us!


I would agree with this. I wasn't anticipating anywhere NEAR this kind of reaction. Thanks again to those of you who offered actual advice. To the Cliffsnotes type readers, I can't hate on you. If reading just a few of the posts, I'd have the same reaction myself. Next time, maybe just try reading it all, or just don't comment.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Attacking does nothing!

Winning people to YOUR side of something requires kindness, people skills, and an open mind. Acceptance, and friendship get a person a lot more places than hatred and alienation.

I am guilty of it myself to some degree on topics like politics, where I just cannot understand the other side at all- but ultimately, I have to try.

Animal abuse is a hot topic and it's very hard to bite our tongues and reach out. Breeding is another- but how can we save this dog, help this man, and stop careless breeders (or anything else) if we spew hatred? Would YOU listen to and take advice from someone who told you to eff off and rot in hell? Most likely not...


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## Jenny Wren (Feb 27, 2007)

Jason,

Hang in there with us. We are trying to give you good advice...but unfortunately emotions get in the way. You are doing the hard work today. Keep at it. Stay with your convictions and know that you can count on people here to be a sounding board...a mostly GOOD sounding board.

Perhaps people are emotional because they are passionate about your (and Ellie's)plight. You have heard a lot of good things from people today, that reinforce what we know about you: that you are a good, kind, intelligent, caring guy. Those traits are the kind of strengths that will get you through this.

Keep talking to us... Peace...


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## Carsonsdaddy (Nov 1, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Attacking does nothing!
> 
> Winning people to YOUR side of something requires kindness, people skills, and an open mind. Acceptance, and friendship get a person a lot more places than hatred and alienation.
> 
> ...


Bravo!!! Well said!!!! :appl::appl:


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I'm going to close this- other mods can open it if they see fit. Jason, feel free to start a new thread and let us know how you are doing, how Ellie is progressing at your moms, or anything else you'd like to share!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

jason0618 said:


> I would agree with this. I wasn't anticipating anywhere NEAR this kind of reaction. Thanks again to those of you who offered actual advice. To the Cliffsnotes type readers, I can't hate on you. If reading just a few of the posts, I'd have the same reaction myself. Next time, maybe just try reading it all, or just don't comment.


Given that Jason is the OP, and agrees with closing the thread, is there a mod that will do that?

Jason, you know that you can always either start another if need be, or, even PM members who you've found to be of help to you.

Best of luck, friend.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Done, my friends


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