# Dog on Dog Aggression



## Ashtyn (Jul 29, 2020)

I feel like we have tired everything, Winston my golden is still having problems with my boyfriends male Golden Doodle. 

Both are males and both have been playing together almost everyday for Winston entire life (life we have had him) and in the last 3 months something has happened and they physically attack each other. 

We tired buying them both muzzles so they couldn't actually hurt other and other. But, that didn't help. We have tired keeping them both on leashes and slowly warming up. Nothing. We tired petting them both at the same time saying "good boys, good job." Showing them both the same attention. Nothing 

And so far its only with Cesar (the golden doodle) is the only dog there is an issue. And our neighbours dog but they just haven't officially met yet so they bark and growl from a far but, they both wag their tails so its not in aggressive way.

But with Cesar is aggressive teeth bare, tail flat down ears back and a deep growl. It's very odd. They have grown up together. We even had the female that is there fixed we thought that was part of the problem, but, even that doesn't seem to work.

Our next option is to have a trainer come to the house and see what they can do.


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Are they both intact?


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## Ashtyn (Jul 29, 2020)

Emmdenn said:


> Are they both intact?


they both are... but winston also plays with other golden who is intact too and they get along great


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

I’m not an expert, but I would guess hormones playing a factor. How old are they? They could both be trying to determine who the top dog will be, because they share the same space.


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## Ashtyn (Jul 29, 2020)

Cesar is 7 and winston is 17 months old. 

See we thought that at first but Winston comes with me to work everyday where there is another golden who 7 years old too (Max), and they don't fight at all.

Cesar is a very timid dog, they got him as a rescue so I don't know if its him, because other than Winston, he really doesn't socialize with other bigger dogs. 

It's very strange!


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

The difference is that Winston is living with Cesar. The other dogs he is interacting with in neutral territory. He's at an age where the hormones are making him feel macho and like they need to compete, and he is challenging the 7 year olds authority. I would get him into obedience classes ASAP and honestly consider consulting with a trainer or behaviorist who specializes in aggression. They may be able to give you a better idea on what they are seeing. Also if he's being a jerk and truly being aggressive he does not need to stay intact and potentially pass on that temperament.


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## Ashtyn (Jul 29, 2020)

Emmdenn said:


> The difference is that Winston is living with Cesar. The other dogs he is interacting with in neutral territory. He's at an age where the hormones are making him feel macho and like they need to compete, and he is challenging the 7 year olds authority. I would get him into obedience classes ASAP and honestly consider consulting with a trainer or behaviorist who specializes in aggression. They may be able to give you a better idea on what they are seeing. Also if he's being a jerk and truly being aggressive he does not need to stay intact and potentially pass on that temperament.


 oh no they don't live together


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Does Cesar come over to Winston's home to play? To stay overnight? Does Winston go over there frequently to play or stay overnight?


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## Ashtyn (Jul 29, 2020)

Emmdenn said:


> Does Cesar come over to Winston's home to play? To stay overnight? Does Winston go over there frequently to play or stay overnight?


Winston goes over there almost everyday to play outside and the odd sleepover every couple of weeks. 

Sadly Cesar has yet to be over to our new home as we just moved in and don't have our yard fenced in yard just yet.


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

I have three intact males. They all get along fine but it is a process. Duke will be 10, Moe is 2 1/2, and Cruz is 5 months. My son has an intact yellow lab that visits often, he's 6. Duke is the dominant male at my house. His rules go, but they are still expected to behave properly. If I take Duke to my sons house it is an entirely different story the lab is then the ruler supreme. Dogs are territorial. At Dukes house he is the boss. At Whiskeys (the lab) house he is the boss. Both dogs are hunt trained and are obedient enough that we can allow them to work it out. They growl and sound vicious and posture for about 10 minutes but work it out. They were raised in the same house when Whiskey was a puppy. He lived with us until he was 7 months old. 

The problem isn't hormones in my opinion. It's more likely territory a little jealousy. If I were you I would try taking both dogs to a neutral territory. I'd keep both dogs on a leash and under firm control. I wouldn't try to have them play I would do manners and obedience leash work with them in close, but not to close, proximity to each other. As they start to want to be together or become more curious of each other you can SLOWLY introduce them. Part of the problem is that they were not raised together. If they don't live together you will more then likely see some form of this behavior every single time they are thrown together at one or the others house. 

To give you prospective Duke and Moe have lived in the same home together every day since we brought Moe home as a puppy. We had the occasional friendly squabble, but nothing serious. We sent Moe away to field training for a few weeks. While he was gone Cruz came home from the breeder. Duke took to Cruz as if he was his very own puppy. We never imagined we'd have a problem when Moe came home. The minute Moe came home our house was a war zone. Duke guarded the house and the puppy from Moe. It took about 3 weeks for them to be able to be near each other without leashes on. The puppy was kept completely out of the mix. They were both only together while on leash and my husband had Moe and I had control of Duke. We slowly allowed them to interact taking a very firm line with Duke on acceptable behavior toward Moe. In about a months time we could trust Duke and Moe to be together again. The first time they were both allowed off leash my husband played fetch with Moe and I played fetch with Duke with about a 100 yards of space between us. We were just testing the theory that they wouldn't actively go after each other given the opportunity. Both dogs are hunt trained with firm recall, sit, and formal retrieve ingrained in them. Once we were certain the balance between those two was back in place we started allowing Cruz to interact with each one of them independently again. They are all three currently laying at my feet in my office happily. 

Having multiple dogs of either sex is a process. Sometimes you get lucky and there is no problem. Sometimes it's a training and time issue, and sometimes you can't fix it. I have a friend that had two females that just couldn't be trusted near each other. She is an obedience instructor and ended up having to re-home one of the females. It's heart breaking but it just doesn't always work.

My advice is take your time. Practice obedience with both dogs and try to find neutral territory for any interaction until you have relaxed behavior from both dogs when they are together. Each step you take should be done with careful observation and planning. Keep in mind that sometimes play still looks like a pack of wolves but you will be able to tell the difference. I would always have one person for each dog. Hopefully with a little hard work and time things will work out.


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> I have three intact males. They all get along fine but it is a process. Duke will be 10, Moe is 2 1/2, and Cruz is 5 months. My son has an intact yellow lab that visits often, he's 6. Duke is the dominant male at my house. His rules go, but they are still expected to behave properly. If I take Duke to my sons house it is an entirely different story the lab is then the ruler supreme. Dogs are territorial. At Dukes house he is the boss. At Whiskeys (the lab) house he is the boss. Both dogs are hunt trained and are obedient enough that we can allow them to work it out. They growl and sound vicious and posture for about 10 minutes but work it out. They were raised in the same house when Whiskey was a puppy. He lived with us until he was 7 months old.
> 
> The problem isn't hormones in my opinion. It's more likely territory a little jealousy. If I were you I would try taking both dogs to a neutral territory. I'd keep both dogs on a leash and under firm control. I wouldn't try to have them play I would do manners and obedience leash work with them in close, but not to close, proximity to each other. As they start to want to be together or become more curious of each other you can SLOWLY introduce them. Part of the problem is that they were not raised together. If they don't live together you will more then likely see some form of this behavior every single time they are thrown together at one or the others house.
> 
> ...


This is great advice. Re: hormones, I was more bringing this up because the younger boy is not a little puppy anymore and seems to want to be the dominant dog now that he is older and more mature. I agree with all of the above advice and hope the OP tries out a similar approach.


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

Emmdenn said:


> This is great advice. Re: hormones, I was more bringing this up because the younger boy is not a little puppy anymore and seems to want to be the dominant dog now that he is older and more mature. I agree with all of the above advice and hope the OP tries out a similar approach.


I’m not discounting that hormones play a part in dog behavior and attitude. I just feel like you say “intact male” and everyone thinks it’s a hormone problem. Neutering a dog will not fix bad behavior. You still have to put the work in to correct the behavior. I really hope it works out for the OP. It really caught me off guard when my guys had their little spell this summer.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

All great ideas above.

I'm curious about the bad behavior. Are the dog chest butting? Are they mouthing each other? What kind of noises are they making? Will they respond to any voice commands while they are getting heavy attitude? Have they punctured the skin of each other?
Neutering will only fix a male that is overly sexual with any female they meet. That's it. 
Keeping your boy intact will keep his hormones developing important joint functions long term in his life. So please keep him intact if you can.


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Yes aware about that, I was stating that if he were intact with the possibility of being bred it may be best to not pass on the temperament _if_ it is true aggression, not because I think neutering a dog will change behavior. My apologies if I was not clear about that!


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## bigblackdog (Jun 14, 2013)

The OP's dog has a heart murmur and an enlarged heart. Not breeding material.


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## bigblackdog (Jun 14, 2013)

Alaska7133 said:


> All great ideas above.
> 
> I'm curious about the bad behavior. Are the dog chest butting? Are they mouthing each other? What kind of noises are they making? Will they respond to any voice commands while they are getting heavy attitude? Have they punctured the skin of each other?
> Neutering will only fix a male that is overly sexual with any female they meet.


This is not true. Testosterone also plays a big part in aggression, and aggressive behavior....it's not just sexual behavior. This is the reason million dollar race horses are gelded, bulls are made into steers, etc. Neutering will take away the testosterone, which may help with dog aggression along with training.


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## Ffcmm (May 4, 2016)

I think it might depend on the type of agression, because there are many cases where a male is anxious/ has fear aggression, and neutering does not help that, if anything they might even become more dog reactive after neutering. Testosterone wise it does help with excessive sniffing (which many dogs find very rude), and can prevent fights from triggering. 

What if you try meeting in a neutral territory on leash, and then head for a short walk together? When letting them have their initial greeting make sure to monitor and do not allow any dog to dash face first to the other dog, it should be a head to butt greeting that is _SHORT_ eg, sniff for 1-2 seconds and then you pull them apart.


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## Ashtyn (Jul 29, 2020)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> I have three intact males. They all get along fine but it is a process. Duke will be 10, Moe is 2 1/2, and Cruz is 5 months. My son has an intact yellow lab that visits often, he's 6. Duke is the dominant male at my house. His rules go, but they are still expected to behave properly. If I take Duke to my sons house it is an entirely different story the lab is then the ruler supreme. Dogs are territorial. At Dukes house he is the boss. At Whiskeys (the lab) house he is the boss. Both dogs are hunt trained and are obedient enough that we can allow them to work it out. They growl and sound vicious and posture for about 10 minutes but work it out. They were raised in the same house when Whiskey was a puppy. He lived with us until he was 7 months old.
> 
> The problem isn't hormones in my opinion. It's more likely territory a little jealousy. If I were you I would try taking both dogs to a neutral territory. I'd keep both dogs on a leash and under firm control. I wouldn't try to have them play I would do manners and obedience leash work with them in close, but not to close, proximity to each other. As they start to want to be together or become more curious of each other you can SLOWLY introduce them. Part of the problem is that they were not raised together. If they don't live together you will more then likely see some form of this behavior every single time they are thrown together at one or the others house.
> 
> ...


This is all great advice and very insightful too! Thanks


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## Ashtyn (Jul 29, 2020)

Alaska7133 said:


> All great ideas above.
> 
> I'm curious about the bad behavior. Are the dog chest butting? Are they mouthing each other? What kind of noises are they making? Will they respond to any voice commands while they are getting heavy attitude? Have they punctured the skin of each other?
> Neutering will only fix a male that is overly sexual with any female they meet. That's it.
> Keeping your boy intact will keep his hormones developing important joint functions long term in his life. So please keep him intact if you can.



They will not listen to anything they have to be physically pulled apart during this moment. It starts with the golden doodle, growling and baring teeth and then Winston going into this state where he stands his ground and goes as close as possible to his face and then the growling deepens. We tried putting muzzles on both dogs so neither could hurt each other.. but Winston will force his self ontop of the doodle and actually almost pin him down...


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## Ashtyn (Jul 29, 2020)

Winston also ONLY does it to this dog... we go on walks all the time and he barks at the other dogs and then goes up and sniffs them and is completely fine ! Both male and female dogs. 

I thought it was a jealous thing between owners, Cesar (doodle) feeling jealous because my boyfriend was paying attention to other dog. But the fighting happened once when it was just me there...


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## Mindquad (Aug 9, 2020)

I had a rottweiler that would do this with a labrador.. Me and the Lab owner started taking (what we now call) socially distanced walks together ... our dogs were about 15 feet apart to begin with, but after a few weeks they became much more comfortable until we were walking closely, and then eventually both dogs were fine and could be walked on the same leash. 

But it took a while, and it took a lot of me and the other dog owner working together. If they freak out at 30 feet, keep them 35 feet away, treat when they are calm... get closer and closer as long as they both remain calm and obedient. Any other attitudes are met with a larger distance and no treats.


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## three retirees (Aug 31, 2018)

Seems to me dogs are working out who is the Alpha. Younger dog is challenging the older male. Younger dog is feeling his oats. Happens with dogs and humans all the time. They either work it out or go their separate ways. It does require close watching to make sure it does not become physical. Just my 2 cents.


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