# Avoiding Unwanted Patterns?



## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

Here is a question I've been boggled with since I started training, and still don't have a solid answer. 

I don't understand how to avoid unwanted patterns in training. 
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Example 1: *My dog jumps on the counter. I say "off," I treat the "off." Now I've just trained my dog to jump on the counter so that I say off and he gets a treat for getting off. 
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Possible solution:* Make sure nothing is on the counter that he can get; ignore the jump so that the behavior is extinguished on its own. 

BUT, he's been with us for 7 weeks now (got him at 9; he's 16 weeks now) and he has never, ever, ever gotten anything off the counter . . .but he has tried since about day #2 here. STILL TRYING!!! I did not start with off . . .I tried ignoring initially for quite some time.

*Example 2:* All of a sudden, my dog is going after my coat again. In the past, I could easily redirect him with a toy, so as long as I had one with me, all was fine. In the last 3 days, this does not work. He will pull, pull, pull. I have tried ignoring/turning away, but my coat is getting damaged. He DOES stop eventually, but my poor coat can only take so much. So, I tried "give" today. He did it, but then immediately went back to the coat. Patten being established: rip coat, wait for "give" instruction, get treat.

*Possible solution:* Try to get him used to the coat inside, where the environment isn't so stimulating. Problem is, he completely ignores my coat inside. Other idea is to put him into a series of commands before giving treat-- HOWEVER, he will go right back to my coat as long as those commands are done. He has not been interested in other types of play lately, either. He has also done this while on walks-- during exercise.

I feel like my dog is always several steps ahead of me!


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## SwimDog (Sep 28, 2014)

I love your questions and how you think about solutions!

Counters - If a behavior is continuing we know it is somehow being rewarded. It could be you created a pattern with the off for a treat. It could be that he gets attention. It could be the curiosity/exploring is reinforcing.

Management: Tether to something far enough away so he can't get up (I did glance through your post on that), delegate someone to do puppy mat training during kitchen time, invest in remote treat dispenser to help you with that, keep him out of the kitchen, put boxes on the counters so he can't complete the jump, do R+ boundary training to keep him away frm counters (I have not found that to be effective). Floor food and puzzles during higher activity kitchen times. Crate/gate/pen during more kitchen times. 

My puppy is now 4.5 months. He started being interested in counters 1-2 weeks ago. I kept them clear. He mostly gave up. I keep it clear, but I also do my best to make it not interesting - I do cooking with him on a mat or when he's behind a gate I use a far away counter (not the close and tempting one). It's really not a problem now, I expect him to make new attempts every few months but if I minimize reinforcement there and maximize reinforcement for floor things, no problem. 

Coat - obviously we know where the reinforcement is. I would give him something to chew on or put the coat on out of range. Step into his area, pull out a tug toy (before he is coat btiing) and invite him to tug. Play treat games. Head outside doing treat games and tug on a toy.

I think in both those scenarios you're focusing on what to do when the naughty behavior happens rather than how to prevent it from even occuring? If you are not wearing coat, he cannot tear it. If you invite him for appropriate tug, he will have an appropriate outlet for his interest. If someone is delegated to puppy settle training during kitchen time, he cannot jump on the counters.

It is good to have a back up plan in case something happens - but by then often reward has already happened (fun and curiosity rewards the leap on the counter. The joy of jumping on a person and the coat in his mouth).


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

SwimDog, thank you for your insights!

This gave me a chance to think about WHEN the counter-jumping happens. He does not get free reign in the kitchen-- either he is tethered (for now our table is working for that) or walking through on a leash in order to go outside. It happens when he is on a leash. So, I suppose I could just keep it short enough so that he can't jump, but I don't think this will extinguish his curiosity. Again, he has never had access to anything there, so it's only the possibility that is reinforcing to him. He has high hopes, hahaha! I know for sure that if I treat him "through" the kitchen for coming, he will always expect treats. Ask me how I know this. Maybe what I will do is get through the kitchen with a series of commands-- but make them unpredictable. We will come/touch/sit/down while going in and out of the kitchen. I could also think of another activity. For example, at night, he knows to run to his "office" (crate) and does not jump. He will get a treat for going in his crate, so he is focused on that. Maybe I should plan for a job to do that gets him through the kitchen? 

As for the coat, it's cold here! I have 2, and this one is less tempting than the other. I do think it's OK to wear a coat (and he will go after other clothes, too-- outside only at this point). And, I DO use the tug toy preemptively. I always offer it to him when we are out (before he tries my coat), try different ones, etc. and he will go for the toy a little at first, but then right back to my coat. Hmm. 

Now you gave me an idea. Since he is thinking coat = treat, I have to change the association using the TUG. Then if he is going to work for a treat, let it be by giving up the tug instead of giving up my coat. The coat will give him nothing!!!!

He does it always after he does his business. Then it's right to pulling on my coat. Since he is so predictable, I am ready-- but my plan has been failing. 

And yes, you hit the nail on the head-- if jumping on the counter is inherently fun, and if pulling on my coat is in and of itself fun, then what??? I'll try my strategies and report back! Thank you again!!!


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## Susan: w/ Summit we climb (Jun 12, 2014)

Anele said:


> if I treat him "through" the kitchen for coming, he will always expect treats.



Don't the treats get phased out very soon anyway? That's my understanding, anyway. Like Kikopup does it.


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## KKaren (Oct 29, 2014)

Anele said:


> The coat will give him nothing!!!!


Anele, too funny. I am storing up your reports for the future


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## SwimDog (Sep 28, 2014)

Your puppy is so, so young. For habits that I am trying to establish, I am still rewarding every single repetition that meets my requirements. You can use food for going through and after 1-2 weeks treat every other step, then every 3. Becuase counters are soooooo enticing we need to build up bigger history of reward for staying with you/off. 

You can use treats to distract him through the kitchen. And at other times you can do training
- send him from a mat at one side of the kitchen to the other
- do walking training (counters as a distraction - neutral counters then with more and more enticing things up there
- Leave it training with counters (kikopup has a video on this i think?)
- hand touch to guide him through the kitchen
- tug on a toy as you go through the kitchen

Pulling him away/tight leash will probably build interest -that's how we build toy interest in some dogs who are not as interested in playing.

Coat - 
- use tug toy to teach games of "when I move the toy you should play with me, when I hold the toy still you should let go" This concept transfers to clothes very easily "clothes are still. let go."
- Use nibbling/licking treats to establish new patterns and habits
- After he eliminates, call him to you and scatter a handful of kibble on the ground. Again, new habit of potty = look at the ground rather than his pattern of potty = jump at the coat.

My experience is most people get rid of the rewards before habits are established. Get rid of the food as a prompt ASAP always - but continue to use food/toy as a rewrd much longer.


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## Chritty (Aug 17, 2014)

SwimDog said:


> .
> 
> My experience is most people get rid of the rewards before habits are established. Get rid of the food as a prompt ASAP always - but continue to use food/toy as a rewrd much longer.



I feel like I never seem to be fading out the treats.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

I know many here won't appove of this, so I'll give my two cents, and bow out, since I have no interest in the back and forth. 

Bella was counter-surfing every day for about a week, once she discovered she could reach. One time, she grabbed a sandwich right off my son's plate. This was after constantly saying "off" and "good off." She understood, but it was self-rewarding behavior. The very last time she counter surfed, I gave her a good squirt with a sports bottle-probably about 16 oz of water. That was well over two years ago. Hasn't happened since.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

Susan: w/ Summit we climb, from my understanding, treats as a lure are faded out quickly, but treats as a reinforcement (if that's what the dog finds reinforcing) are not.


KKaren, haha! The coat is still giving him nothing! I can't believe I still need to wear it in April sometimes!


SwimDog, I am finding that I have MUCH MUCH MUCH better success when I reinforce with a treat each time. For example, I think I have treated the "touch" command 100% of the time, so my dog responds to this always. I hear so many conflicting things about treats but I think that, for the first year (esp. to get us through the teen period) my dog will be able to count on treats or some type of life reward that he truly enjoys each and every time. If a dog can do sit 100% of the time, in ANY situation, then that is an amazing thing, and I think making it so automatic with treats is what I need to do. (Again, not as a lure, and not that I will reward each sit when part of a "series" of cues, etc.)

Something that has saved the day is his mat. I was advised not to leave the mat in one place, as then it will no longer be a training tool, but this has greatly diminished counter surfing once I put it back in the kitchen for good. It's still a pain to get him OUTSIDE (believe it or not) because he just wants to lie on the mat in hopes of food, but I would much prefer this problem over the constant surfing. Now that his mat is always there, now he knows what to do in the kitchen. Lie down calmly and hope that a morsel appears once in awhile! I'm not saying he never gets up from the mat-- he does-- but it has made a huge difference. 

Chritty, I hear you! 

Nairb, you gotta do what you gotta do. Karen Pryor euthanized her cat for peeing on the burners. You sprayed some water . . .


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