# Goldens won't come when called



## Wrigley's Mom (Nov 6, 2006)

Hi Tom--welcome to the forum. I don't have any advice, because I have the same problem, only not on 40 acres of land. Wrigley comes when he wants to and when he hears the word "treat". But if there's something good and smelly around, I'm out of luck.

Looking forward to hearing everyone's advice...


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I use the term "this way" when I have them off leash at the lake or the park. When I say it, I change my direction. For some reason it works much better than "come". I try to only use "come" when I know that they will really listen! Another phrase I use instead of "come" is "over here". We do a lot of off leash walking up at the lake and the dogs adore their walks, so they tend to listen really well.


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## Goldilocks (Jun 3, 2007)

We are having the same problem! AND I think the females are more independent than the males, with a mind of their own. My brother's Golden (male) is so obedient, comes when called and rarely needs to be scolded but if you do express your displeasure with something he's done, he's sooooo sorry and you can visibly see he feels bad. My girl, that's another story, she does what she wants, when she wants and the word "no" and me getting cross with her has no effect whatsoever! She frustrates me! Today, she was testing my patience as she likes to eat ice outside which I know isn't good for her. It's impossible to get her to do her business in a timely fashion (it's -18 with wind chill) and she just wants to "chill out" and eat ice in the middle of a blizzard! 

I'll be taking her to boot camp at the next "radical recall" course at our doggy daycare.


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## Judi (Feb 26, 2007)

I suggest you enroll in Obedience Training.


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## guild.tom (Feb 7, 2008)

Judi said:


> I suggest you enroll in Obedience Training.


Already did so -- and we passed the first and second classes with Mollie. She's the hard one. Not only that, the pups come from lines that have won obedience trials. My pups seem to feed off each other's misbehavior.

Mollie is extremely agile for a Golden. She's gone before I know what has happened. Willie I can keep up with. Willie is also more compliant than Mollie. Both are very tender hearted pups.

Tom


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## jak_sak (Jan 23, 2008)

Just a thought! 

I bought one of those laser pointers at a local pet store. My Puppy gets obsessed with it! When I turn it on, he *HAS* to chase the light! I "field tested" this when I took him out for potty WITHOUT his leash. The moment he was done, I called him; but realizing he had no leash, he tried to run in the snow. All I did was turn the pointer on and presto! - he followed it like a baby! And I pointed it inside my apartment and he ran in chasing it!

Not sure if this will help you, but always worth trying.

Cheers..
-JI


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## RoxyNoodle (Nov 9, 2007)

Have you tried a whistle? I used one after suffering very similar deaf episodes like the ones you describe. I only ever use the whistle with extremely hugh reward treats. I started by making a 'pip' sound and immediately treating at home, then around the house, then the garden then to the park. I always condition the whistle when I go out - i.e. a 'pip' and immediately treat 4-5 times when she's stood right next to me, then I let her get a few feet away and build up the distance. A few months ago, she would have been off like a shot the second I removed her lead and I wouldn't have seen her - now she'll only ignore me around 20% of the time - to remedy this, I have her on a harness and long line which means if she does try and ignore me when she's a reasonable distance I can pick up the end and reel her in - I basically try not to let her ignore me, and make a very big show of putting the treat back in the bag when she does.

Also, and I do hope people don't think this is cruel, but I started off by not giving her breakfast - the fatty suasages she gets as treats more than make up for this ommission - so she's keenly interested in what I have to offer more than other sniffs and distractions.

I wouldn't say my Roxy's very reliable, but then I was useless at recall training for a long time, and the 4 or so months it's taken to get her to this point is only my own fault. There is a light at the end of the tunnel though.


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## guild.tom (Feb 7, 2008)

I just realized that this forum has a section devoted to behavior. Cool.  I should have scrolled a bit before posting.

Because I am retired and still young enough to sort of keep up with the pups, I had better get with it.

Of the two pups, Willie is going to be easier to work with. I think that I "messed up" with him right when I brought him home. Mollie was a year old and immediately the pups became inseparable. Mollie ended up "training" Willie. Willie looks to Mollie for directions -- not good.

The plan -- over the next few weeks I'll be working with the pups separately. Already, Willie is starting to "get it". However, Mollie will stay on the leash for a while when we take our prairie walks. I can't get to her quickly enough if she chooses not to come.

I know that I will get this figured out with a little help. I have whistle trained all of my dogs. The Drahthaar was something else. He would chase deer for miles. I had to use a "shock" collar with him. I'll not do that with the Goldens. As I mentioned before, Mollie is extremely sensitive (but very strong willed). A "shock" collar would be devastating to her. Better to have her on a leash.

This whole problem came to a head yesterday, when the pups were gone for a half an hour and would not "come". Today, I found what was keeping them -- a coyote carcass. Hard to compete with something like that. 

Oh, why two Goldens? Mollie had some rather serious medical problems when she was a young pup. The breeder gave us a second Golden to "Keep, Miss Mollie company". 

Tom


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## Penny'smom (Mar 3, 2007)

I think all obedience training dulls without practice and refresher courses. I suggest you work with really good treats (I'd come for sausages too!) every month or so or when you see they're getting a little lax.

I think every dog (and people, too) slack off when they think no one is looking. And once they 'don't come' you've trained them that they don't have to obey you. Funny how they'll pick up on THAT immediately, isn't it?

I think you're off to a good start with them, you just need to stay on top of your game with them.


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## kalkid (Feb 22, 2007)

I've had success with a long lead but obviously you can't cover 40 acres. If you could get a 100 foot rope or so that is manageable that might work. My girl is real clingy so she's always looking back and making sure she is going in the same direction as me. However I had a chocolate that in his early years would bolt out of the truck and be gone for a 1/2 hour everytime I took him hunting. I used a 50' rope I think and if he didn't come back I'd give him a yank. He learned to pay attention to my voice eventually which is really what it boils down to in my opinion. Like you said they get so wrapped up in smells or chasing something and I don't think they even hear you or choose not to. You might give it a try.


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## jcasks (Oct 14, 2007)

First off, welcome to the forum!! Tucker is my GR and still young, unfortunately we don't have much land (actually, no land  ) but he will do ANYTHING for peanut butter. He knows what the jar looks like and if he goes out front (We have a small field across the street) to go potty, I secretly take the jar and when I bring it out he comes running to me as fast as he an.
I understand carrying an big jar of peanut butter might not be an option, but maybe something much smaller with peanut butter (or something he loves) and that way when your pups see it, they will come running.
If that doesnt help you will find awesome advice here, the forum is great!


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## guild.tom (Feb 7, 2008)

Penny'smom said:


> I think all obedience training dulls without practice and refresher courses. I suggest you work with really good treats (I'd come for sausages too!) every month or so or when you see they're getting a little lax.
> 
> I think every dog (and people, too) slack off when they think no one is looking. And once they 'don't come' you've trained them that they don't have to obey you. Funny how they'll pick up on THAT immediately, isn't it?
> 
> I think you're off to a good start with them, you just need to stay on top of your game with them.


I'm a retired elementary school principal -- 38 years of dealing with thousands of kiddos and a teacher or two that "would slack off when no one was looking". I was really good at "looking. 

Mollie and Willie will be a piece of cake. At least I hope so.

Tom


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## Mrs_B (Jan 21, 2008)

Hotdogs..... If I call my dogs and they see the hotdog bag.... It's a race.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

fostermom said:


> I use the term "this way" when I have them off leash at the lake or the park. When I say it, I change my direction. For some reason it works much better than "come". Another phrase I use instead of "come" is "over here".


My dog, off leash, is also more independent than "obedient" (unless he sees a treat--then Obedient is his first name!).
Mine does think he is the leader when he's off leash.
I have had the same success using these two phrases. Also, when we turn around to head back, the word Back! is one that works well (in part because he wants to be leader as we make our return trek).


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

fostermom said:


> I use the term "this way" when I have them off leash at the lake or the park. When I say it, I change my direction. For some reason it works much better than "come". I try to only use "come" when I know that they will really listen! Another phrase I use instead of "come" is "over here". We do a lot of off leash walking up at the lake and the dogs adore their walks, so they tend to listen really well.


I agree with this whole-heartedly. The command "all dogs", or "This Way All Dogs", for whatever reason, gets instant results in the woods. 

One good way to teach "come is by playing hide n seek spontaneously. On the prarie walks, when the dogs are not too far, hide behind a rock or hill or in tall grass and say "come". Make a big fuss when they find you. Increase the degree of difficulty as they learn to look for you, and keep it very fun when you greet them. This worked wonders for Finn.


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## guild.tom (Feb 7, 2008)

*"Puppy Paradise" vs. "Boot Camp"*

I most certainly appreciate all of your suggestions. 

Sadly both pups have been allowed to develop some bad habits. In addition to that, my 40 acres is "puppy paradise" -- native prairie, three "critter filled" ravines, and a pond. It is not fenced but most of the time that is OK because our country road is not all that busy and our house and out-building is set back about 1/4 mile from the road. We never let the pups go close to the road.

This morning it is less that 10 degrees, but the pups and I still tried "boot camp" again -- one pup at a time. Yesterday Willie discovered a rabbit carcass at the edge of a ravine. (Probably the victim of a great horned owl or coyote or both.) I removed the carcass before I took the pups out. I was sure that that was not enough. I was right. Both pups went right to where the carcass had been.

Both pups respond fairly well in our yard. (It's not fenced either.) It's those wide open spaces that are causing the problem. I'm using great treats (venison) and the pups are always hungry, but the "wilderness" is simply too much fun.

I think that "boot camp" is going to be much longer than six weeks. Oh well, we are now all inside where it is warm. The pups are snoozin' on the bed and I'm having a hot cup of coffee. Life is good on our little piece of the Nebraska prairie -- good for the pups and their "drill sergeant.

Tom


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## guild.tom (Feb 7, 2008)

Nothing like a "year old" post. The only thing worse is a "year old" uncorrected problem. Had I brought up this concern in a new thread, it would have been pretty much the same.

Willie has come along quite well. He is the pup that is most anxious to please. He also seems a little bit more insecure in new situations.

Mollie has not changed much. She will still "vamoose" when she is off her leash. Usually she will head for one of the ravines on my property and then move on to my neighbor's place. When I go after her she will not come until I am very close to her. She simply is too much into the "smells" around her.

As I mentioned earlier, both pups are from hunting lines. I'd love to use them for that, but no way am I going to take Mollie into the field.

They are both gorgeous dogs and there is nothing better than watching them romp together in the tall prairie grass that covers my 40 acres. Unfortunately I can't let them do this either.

I make sure that both pups have long walks on their leashes four-six times per day. Willie always has at least half of his walk off leash.They also have carefully supervised playtime close to the house two or three times a day. (Just like when I had to watch a couple of hundred kids on the playground at school.)

The "boot camp" worked fairly well for Willie but only "so so" for Mollie. I always have their favorite treats with on their walks -- either freshly cooked venison tidbits or Natural Balance allergy treats.

I have found that both dogs repsond better to a quick and sharp "Come" command than to a whistle. 

Using a "shock collar" is still not an option.

I think that I'll just have to enjoy the pups as they are. I really hate having Mollie on a leash. She is such a high energy dog. She loves to run, but I simply can't let her run. I am actually considering fencing part of the "wilderness" area of my acreage just for the pups.

Any other suggestions?

Tom


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

How about enrolling them in agility? It sounds like you have the room to set up a course on your land and that they have the energy since they're from field lines. They could learn the commands to keep them moving through the agility course and then they could then be used on your walks along the prairie.


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## ems (Dec 12, 2008)

How about fencing off 2 acres to train them in.


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## Fidele (Sep 17, 2008)

First, let me say thank you for ressurecting this thread! I posted a similar concern & didn't get nearly the responses (and variety of suggestions) you did - the ressurection was a great help to me - thanks! (I live in a 40 acre neighborhood about 1/4 mi. from a country road - but my boy was allowed, by his previous owner, to roam the meighborhood, so now I'm trying to unlearn that - and he just has too much fun rambling! Squirrels to chase, fish to catch . . . .) - so thanks for the new (to me)suggestions!

as for:


guild.tom said:


> Using a "shock collar" is still not an option.


My son has a shock collar for his yellow lab, and it can be set to vibrate OR shock. Would a *vibrate* be enough to get Mollie's attention?


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## guild.tom (Feb 7, 2008)

A vibrating collar might work. I'll think about it. 

Right now I am just in from running down Willie. He went AWOL at the end of his walk as we approached the house. He doesn't go quite as far as Mollie. I found him under a cedar tree devouring some type of "golden delicacy". Now he'll be confined to his leash for a while.

Willie is lying under my chair as I type this note. He appears to be quite penitent. He knows darn well that he shouldn't have made his side trip through the "wilderness".

Gotta' love Willie and Mollie's strong will. Sure.

Tom


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## Dreammom (Jan 14, 2009)

I belong to a Siberian Husky forum, Sibes are notorious for ignoring the command LOL. One of the women there is a trainer and has had much luck with the "front" command. The dog is required to come from wherever they are and sit in front of you.. looking at you. She uses a pivot board to get her point across and keeps pivoting on the board. I did try this with Hurley my sibe (without the pivot board), sometimes the command works sometimes it doesn't... I have to admit I got a bit lazy about it, it was easier to bribe him in with a treat LOL. It is worth a shot though, and I plan on trying it with Layla.

blessings,

Julie


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

guild.tom said:


> Using a "shock collar" is still not an option.
> 
> 
> Any other suggestions?
> ...


Hi Tom
You can ignore this response if you want but it is a YEAR and your problem is NOT fixed. An e-collar can be used in such a way it is far more fair and compassionate than what you are currently doing. Your dogs will have NO idea why they are back on leash and once you let them loose again they will return to their unresponsive ways. The collar is not used to teach a "command" but to make them understand no matter how far away from you they are they MUST respond to it. I have used "Retriever Training" by Jim and Phyllis Dobbs with Alice Woodyard as my training guide for the e-collar for field work. 
Whatever you do please find some way that will work. Someday it just might save the life of one of your dogs. Good Luck, Tom!!


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## gd8man (Jan 10, 2008)

*My TWO cents*

My advice is to start early , as when you have puppies..
Because when you have puppies all you have to do is call them and run away!!!
They will always follow you..
So call them and run and HIDE!!
AND do it over and over ,all the time.
Make it a game, they will play.


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## guild.tom (Feb 7, 2008)

Yep, A year is a long time. 

I did work with them when they were pups. Mollie and I had two sets of obedience classes and Willie and I had one. We all did satisfactorily in the classes. I continued to work with them outside of class and still do -- daily.

When we are in a "training mode" they respond appropriately. Willie's trip today was very much out of character for him. 

I do not take the pups for "prairie walks" off leash at the same time. (I'm getting a heck of a lot of exercise with four of five walks daily with each pup.) I frequently use these walks for training. I also work with them when they have there outside play times.

The problem arises when Mollie decides to run. I honestly believe that the has so much pent up energy the she feels the need to run free and then she keeps going.

I've sent the breeder that I got the pups from a note. He does obedience trials with his dogs and they do very well. I asked him what he thought about using an e-collar.

All of our goldens are unique, right?. Well, Miss Mollie is more than just a "little unique". She's intelligent, submissive and super-sensitive. I say this lovingly -- She is the "strangest" dog that has ever been a part of my life. My wife would agree.

Tom


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Tom, I've known some good dogs that still would run for the sake of running and/or great scents to explore. If you're up for a spring project, I think fencing a couple of those acres would benefit both pups. You might also be able to have Mollie playing long rounds of fetch (tennis racquet and tennis ball works well) in the fenced area before doing some "by me" or "come" type training. Perhaps if she's tired out and conditioned well in the fenced area, you can practice some in the prairie with better results. My rescue boy Finn is not trustworthy off leash everywhere, but I've found some open spaces that are safe for him, and training goes much better when he's got some of his energy expended.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

What would I do?

I'd put up a nice, big attached dog run, and put in a doggy door. That way they could safely go in and out as needed, and be safe. You'd still be able to take them out for runs if you wanted to.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

My Rusty was a runner 

He came from a farm where he ran free, and he was a year old when I got him.

And he was sneaky about it.

We'd be out in the big lot next to where I rented a basement apartment (normally he stayed in the big fenced-in back yard).

We'd play some ball, run around, and then...

He'd turn and look at me with that look.

I'd say "Rusty...."

He'd take a step.

I'd say "RUSTY...."

He'd take another step.

I'd say "Don't you do it!"

He'd give me that last grin and bolt off into the neighborhood looking for adventure.

I'd say "Oh no you _didn't!"_

I'd hop in the car and go get him. It was a regular drill for us.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

That works for Ronin, The Siamese Cat 

No matter where he is asleep at the time in the house, whenever he hears that little chain rattle he comes a runnin'.



jak_sak said:


> Just a thought!
> 
> I bought one of those laser pointers at a local pet store. My Puppy gets obsessed with it! When I turn it on, he *HAS* to chase the light! I "field tested" this when I took him out for potty WITHOUT his leash. The moment he was done, I called him; but realizing he had no leash, he tried to run in the snow. All I did was turn the pointer on and presto! - he followed it like a baby! And I pointed it inside my apartment and he ran in chasing it!
> 
> ...


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I highly recommend the DVD "Really Reliable Recall" by Leslie Neilson. Available at www.dogwise.com or www.cleanrun.com.


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## Tanyac (Jun 18, 2008)

Reading your posts I can identify with your problems. I would suggest maybe keeping the male on the lead - this may sound odd but would your wandering female be so inclined if her buddy wasn't hot on her heels?

In my case when I had this problem I kept the better behaved dog on the leash which funnily enough brought some control to the naughty dog, as her partner in crime wasn't free to engage her in a naughty spree!

I also use words as "this way" and "see ya" if they really aren't listening to me - and then promptly disappear, causing them to look for me rather than the other way round.

Although you have a large property with what sounds like a fabulous and exciting environment for your dogs, do you take them for walks away from home? Do they meet up with other dogs to play and socialise? I think part of the problem might be that they are so familiar with their own place, they know where everything is, the "hunt" is a bit predictable... do they still ignore you when they are in a new place, for a walk?

I have a friend who lives on a farm, with land and as soon as she moved there she stopped walking her dog outside. The dog became very naughty and quickly unlearned all of his training... no matter how large the land available they will claim it all as theirs.

Good luck, I would just love to live somewhere like you do... you are very lucky!


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## Fidele (Sep 17, 2008)

NuttinButGoldens said:


> My Rusty was a runner
> 
> He came from a farm where he ran free, and he was a year old when I got him.
> 
> ...


That sounds SO MUCH like what Cedar does! As he takes flight he may pause & look at me - like "well, I'd really like to come, but I saw this squirrell . . . ."

Did you ever stop him? (and how?)


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## tannernoodle (Mar 19, 2008)

I didn't really read any other replies but I'd either keep them on a leash or try letting them drag a long rope behind them. That's what I used to do with my golden pup in my mom's big field. I'd let him roam and drag like 15 feet of rope behind him. When I'd want him to come, and he didn't, I'd grab the rope and reel him in and reward him.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

Nope 

Luckily I eventually moved from San Diego (La Mesa, actually) and had my own place with a nice back yard 



Fidele said:


> That sounds SO MUCH like what Cedar does! As he takes flight he may pause & look at me - like "well, I'd really like to come, but I saw this squirrell . . . ."
> 
> Did you ever stop him? (and how?)


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## guild.tom (Feb 7, 2008)

Thanks so much for your suggestions. 

The breeder that I got Willie and Mollie from doesn't really like using electronic collars. He gave me some of the usual suggestions for getting the pups' attention -- chase games, etc.

I am also considering fencing off a couple of acres for a play area. I'll leave it like the rest of my acreage -- prairie grass with a few big cedars. 

This spring I have to work on socializing both pups a bit more. They never see other dogs unless they are being kenneled and they rarely see people. I'll be taking them with me one-at-a-time when I go into town. They both love rides in the truck. (My truck is a large White Dodge Ram pickup. They look mighty good in it, especially when they are wearing their bandannas.  )

Tom


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## Fidele (Sep 17, 2008)

Today I spent the day doing yard work & before I went outside, made a huge production of filling my baggie with treats, letting him watch, sniff, and taste one. And then we practiced all day - for once, Cedar came flying whenever I called - HOORAY! maybe we're making progress - but then he didn't see a rabbit either....

(I'm scared to try the long rope idea for fear he really will take off before I can react, and he's lightning fast! There are lots of woods around here, and if he left & then got the rope tangled up in the bushes & briars, I might never find him)


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

To be honest, all three of my guys have had to have e collar work for off leash safety. Bender used to go get into garbage in the alley next to where we would go for walks, and wouldn't come until I was 20 feet from her - and of course you can't correct her for doing a nice front then, even though she'd just ingested a bunch of garbage and likely would be sick for the next 24 hours as a result. Ticket, well he likes to take off, escape and go do his thing, and he'll come when he gets a minute but there's a scent in the air he has to follow first, or someone is throwing the ball and that's just too fun to pass up. Storee, well she's gotta go for a swim first thank you, or there's a bird flying above and she needs to give chase even if it is an airplane...

So, as needed we put the collar on (mainly the two youngsters anyway) and if they choose not to come when called, they get a very mild correction, I up it if need be but usually they know better and all I have to do is put the collars on them before we head out (usually if it's to the river or something). Quite often they've been turned off but they know they 'have' to come when called with them on. 

To me, it's a tough one because it's so hard to give them a correction for not coming unless you can catch them, and no amount of positives is going to deter a dog who is getting rewarded on their own (swimming, garbage, dead animals to roll in, balls being tossed....). I would rather put the dogs on an e collar and still allow them their freedom than have to keep them leashed for walks which doesn't teach them to come when they're not on leash.

Lana


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## guild.tom (Feb 7, 2008)

I'm glad that I resurrected this thread. Seems like many of us have goldens who love to make naughty expedition trips.

I plan to just keep working at it. Fortunately I have the time and the space to do so.

I'm not throwing out the idea of the e-collar. I have one that still works.

Tom


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## bcumming (Jan 18, 2013)

*Chase Me*

My 22 month old golden, Maxwell Edison, is just like all the others I'm reading about. He is a wonderful pup, but comes when he feels like it, and only if there is nothing more fun to do ... got a scent and he's gone! I'm trying the e-collar. I need for him to stop when I say stop and come when I say come - I live in a city next to the Chesapeake Bay, and he comes when we are on the beach, but want to be able let him off leash more than I do, and couldn't bear to have him hurt. We'll see how this goes. If it's good, I'm going to work on my other dog (I got a shelter dog for him because he needed a buddy), so Penny Lane is next! Will keep you posted.


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## Melfice (Aug 4, 2012)

Wow a 5 year bump haha. Btw your pups are handsome


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

For my money, obedience training with a trainer that teaches how to use an e collar! I have field dogs and we hunt pheasant, quail, and waterfowl. Our dogs are exposed to running deer, rabbits, etc. all the time. I use a whistle recall signal, tweet, tweet, tweet, and the come a running. My trainer and I worked hard to get them trained properly, if you want a for sure thing, that is it!

Do not think using an e collar without professional help will work, it will not and you can harm the dog, regardless what salesman may say, get a trainer and go from their!

I know a lot of people train using other methods, and I believe they must work, but for me the e collar trained with a pro is the best way. I have often wondered how many people have said, "I will never use an e collar on my little doggie" and then lost their dog to an accident do to poor training or no training? I shutter to think!

Good Luck


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## bcumming (Jan 18, 2013)

*Good Idea*

Thanks goldlover68 for the idea. I'll see if I can't find a trainer around my area that will help me with that.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

bcumming said:


> Thanks goldlover68 for the idea. I'll see if I can't find a trainer around my area that will help me with that.


99% of Field Trainers can help with this....find a local field trial or hunt test on EntryExpress.com or AKC go to the event and you will find people who can refer you to good trainers for exactly what you need to do!

Good Luck


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