# Price range for puppy



## hchiasera (Nov 11, 2008)

Hello all!

I just wanted to post a quick message for advice/opinions on prices you paid for your puppy and why there seems to be a broad range from $800 up to $2,500. After doing exhausting research I finally found a responsible breeder I like who is selling the puppies for $2,000 but when I mentioned the price to my husband he almost went through the roof and does not want to pay that much for a dog . Is 2k a high price to pay? He would prefer the lower end of $800 and I realize price does depend on many variables. Just curious on everyone's thoughts about this. Thanks!!

Heather


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I think it depends on where you are located, and on the "credentials" of the puppy. For example, if you are getting a puppy that's show quality, with breeding rights, you will pay a whole lot more than a "pet quality" puppy on a limited registration. Also, it can depend on how many titles the sire and dam have both before and after their names. If both parents are CH dogs (not further up the pedigree, specifically the parents) and have multiple performance titles, too, you will pay quite a bit more. The breeder needs to at least recoup some of the money put into titling the dogs, which is many many thousands of dollars.
So....it depends on what you're looking for!


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## hchiasera (Nov 11, 2008)

*price*

Okay, I guess I should be more specific. I am not looking to breed or show. Just looking for a healthy pet! The breeder is Goldenway Goldens in NJ. They have show dogs with titles.
Thanks.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

hchiasera said:


> Okay, I guess I should be more specific. I am not looking to breed or show. Just looking for a healthy pet! The breeder is Goldenway Goldens in NJ. They have show dogs with titles.
> Thanks.


I think its the area, however, I have Ch lines, all clearances and warranties, etc etc and my pets are sold for $900 with a spay/neuter clause ...I am located in Canada. Do your homework, you may find a more reasonably priced quality puppy for under the above quoted amount ....Good luck


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I agree-I think it's the area. I charge $800 but I live in pretty rural Wisconsin and cannot charge what they charge in more populated areas. I think that $1200-$1500 is pretty common in Madison or Milwaukee, for a pet puppy. I would think that both coasts would be more expensive.


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## Dinsdale (Feb 26, 2008)

In the Chicago area (within 3 hour drive) the priciest pups we found were $2k. Several wonderful dogs could be found for $1200-1500, and some as low as $800. 

By no means should price be your sole determinant, but you do have to determine how much better - if at all - a $2000 dog is than a $1500 one that also has clearances and titles going back generations.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

as well I don't follow the fellow breeders rule that I was told when I was a newbie..."you _*must *_charge what we are charging or you are undercutting us" blah blah blah....I charge what I feel is a reasonable affordable amount for a quality pet puppy, if the others don't like it they can jump in a lake: yes I have always been a rebel!


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

arcane said:


> as well I don't follow the fellow breeders rule that I was told when I was a newbie..."you _*must *_charge what we are charging or you are undercutting us" blah blah blah....I charge what I feel is a reasonable affordable amount for a quality pet puppy, if the others don't like it they can jump in a lake: yes I have always been a rebel!


Oh how I remember this. I only bred when I was ready for a pup myself and I was more concerned with the homes they went to than the money we charged. I was told by numerous people that I was low balling other breeders and I thought I was being greedy. 
In the area you are talking about it seems that 2K is becoming very typical, same area I am located. But if that is more than you are willing to spend you can still find good responsible breeders in the area for 1500 but not much less than that I am afraid.


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## jonesyboy (Sep 20, 2008)

This was a big dilemma for me when I was looking for a dog. I wanted a family pet, not a show dog. Pedigree meant nothing to me, but of course I want a healthy dog. Deep down I really, really wanted a golden puppy but I couldn't consiously pay $1000 or more for it when there are so many unwanted dogs out there needing homes. Nor was I willing to buy a dog from a pet store or questionable breeder. Most golden rescues had older dogs, but with 2 little kids I really wanted a younger dog - preferably 2 or under. I kept checking the local rescues figuring when I saw the puppy that was meant for us I'd know it - even if it wasn't a golden. I got very lucky because I found Jonesy through a local rescue - he was a surrender. He doesn't have any papers but I was told he's a purebread (and he looks every bit a golden). I paid an adoption fee of $300 that goes to the rescue so I had absolutely no problem with that - perfect for both my conscience & pocketbook. When I finally found him, I just had this feeling that he was meant to be part of our family. He's turned out to be a great dog and so far no health problems.


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## BELLA (Nov 13, 2006)

*Good for you !!!!*



jonesyboy said:


> This was a big dilemma for me when I was looking for a dog. I wanted a family pet, not a show dog. Pedigree meant nothing to me, but of course I want a healthy dog. Deep down I really, really wanted a golden puppy but I couldn't consiously pay $1000 or more for it when there are so many unwanted dogs out there needing homes. Nor was I willing to buy a dog from a pet store or questionable breeder. Most golden rescues had older dogs, but with 2 little kids I really wanted a younger dog - preferably 2 or under. I kept checking the local rescues figuring when I saw the puppy that was meant for us I'd know it - even if it wasn't a golden. I got very lucky because I found Jonesy through a local rescue - he was a surrender. He doesn't have any papers but I was told he's a purebread (and he looks every bit a golden). I paid an adoption fee of $300 that goes to the rescue so I had absolutely no problem with that - perfect for both my conscience & pocketbook. When I finally found him, I just had this feeling that he was meant to be part of our family. He's turned out to be a great dog and so far no health problems.


I know a lot of you breeders may hate me but I would never buy a dog that way. All the dogs I have had have been from shelters or rescue groups. All my dogs have been mixed breeds too. As much as I like the golden, I wouldn;t pay anything more than $250 (which was what Bella was and the money went to the rescue group). When I see people with their stunning purebred goldens I just smile and look at my beautiful "mutt". I don;t plan on ever owning a purebred.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

I have had several purebred dogs (as far as can be determined by physical appearance), both goldens and an English springer spaniel. All were adopted at shelters or through rescues. I, too, would never 'buy' a dog as long as there are so many needing homes. But that's a personal decision and I certainly will not criticize others for choosing to do otherwise.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I would buy one- there is NOTHING wrong with buying a puppy if you want one- but if money is a real issue, there are some things you can try:

Consider a field bred Golden Retriever- they are often considerably less with all the same clearances in my research

Consider shipping a puppy from a good breeder in another state- even with the cost of shipping, the total may be far less than $2000.

Consider a rescue puppy or young adult.

I have gotten so many free Goldens/unwanted dogs that were awesome... 

Piper, who is three years old and the perfect ready made housepet, was free/unwanted and Francine, whom we got at 8 weeks old and is GORGEOUS, was only $300 (I think... it wasn't much), and was basically a rescue. But, all she needed vet wise was a deworming which I did myself and she's the picture of health. 

Sadly many folks are turning dogs in due to losing their homes. Also military folks sometimes have to give up a dog when they're sent away. So, keep your eyes and ears open for such dogs. Some are very young puppies when they find themselves in need.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

PS I love mutts too, but I do not think people who choose a certain breed or a puppy are bad at all!  All dogs need and deserve love.


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## dogluver04 (Jul 5, 2008)

When I bought Chloe 7 years ago, i paid $800 for her.. Cedar who we just got recently from a different breeder was $950.. I honestly dont think I would pay more then that for a dog. My boyfriends sister just bought a Goldendoodle pup from a "breeder" and paid $1800.. and Goldendoodles arent even a real breed! Sorry I really dont like them, and I think people are getting ripped off for a mixed breed dog!


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## norabrown (Jul 20, 2007)

My first dog was a black lab and I paid for him. He had papers and I made monthly payments as the breeder's house had burned down and they were living in a trailer (a neighbor, so I knew the situation). So I got hiim at a good price and it fit my budget. Since he had such great blood lines, the breeder approached me about using my first dog for stud. I did have to get his clearances and she covered some of the costs. And I got pick of the litter.

I personally like a pure-bred dog because I feel you have a better idea of what you are getting. Not 100%, but there is a general area that most pure-bred dogs fit in for their breed.

Then with Samson, I got him for free (with lots of medical expenses). He was a rescue through my local vet. He was born with lots of issues and I've had to have a couple surgeries on him, but he was so worth it. His surgeries have cost me as much as a dog from a good breeder with all the clearances.

Then Delilah was a BYB situation where the people did it for money. She was the second litter for the bitch and the bitch was only 18 months old. She was under nourished and in bad shape. So I rescued Delilah in my eyes. I paid $300 for her and she has no papers or clearances and neither did her parents, but other than a UTI early on, she's been totally healthy.

It's a gamble no matter what way you go. So follow your gut and do what you are comfortable with.


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

My husband grew up on a farm and to him dogs should be free.
So paying $350 for Cody was the most I could convince him to pay. He is not registered at all and I did look into registered puppies where I live and they all go for about $1000.

ETA: he is a very healthy puppy and his previous owner was a very nice family who decided to breed their 2 year old female. We went to see their house and saw the mom, saw pictures of the dad and were very happy with the situation. He was vet checked, dewormed and she gave use food and vet records.

I think if you do your resurce and don't rush into getting just any puppy you can find a resonably priced puppy that was well taken care of.


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

dogluver04 said:


> When I bought Chloe 7 years ago, i paid $800 for her.. Cedar who we just got recently from a different breeder was $950.. I honestly dont think I would pay more then that for a dog. My boyfriends sister just bought a Goldendoodle pup from a "breeder" and paid $1800.. and Goldendoodles arent even a real breed! Sorry I really dont like them, and I think people are getting ripped off for a mixed breed dog!


So true!
Our neighbours got a Labradoodle. Good luck with that! Standard Poodles are not generaly nice dogs at all.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I have to pipe in in defence of the Standard Poodle. They are actually wonderful dogs- calmer and I dare say smarter than most dogs, including most retrievers (and I am a Golden lover). They are wonderful, intelligent, hard working, awesome dogs.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

But I do hate the doodles!


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## Kirby'sMom (Feb 26, 2007)

We paid $700 for Kirby from a breeder in Green Bay, WI. She gave us a notebook full of his family tree and champions in his background, too. They had all their health clearances, etc. Our first golden was $75 from a BYB back in 1979. Never had any health issues or problems with him. He was AKC and the best dog we ever had, until Kirby. We didn't know much about "health clearances" or anything back in 1979. But, he was a wonderful dog. There is a litter in our area that they're asking $1700 for right now. They are calling them English Cremes, which is holding the price up. I wonder and worry if they're going to be able to sell them at that price with the economy the way it is and people getting laid off. That is a very high price for a puppy in our area. 
I agree with checking out the Golden rescues in your area. They have puppies and younger goldens quite often.


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> I have to pipe in in defence of the Standard Poodle. They are actually wonderful dogs- calmer and I dare say smarter than most dogs, including most retrievers (and I am a Golden lover). They are wonderful, intelligent, hard working, awesome dogs.


really? I was missled. A lady at the dog park told me she had a labradoodle(paid $5,000) for it to only give it away after 3 years because it was a horrible dog. amybe she should have just got a bure breed poodle!


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## Kirby'sMom (Feb 26, 2007)

MyCodyBoy said:


> really? I was missled. A lady at the dog park told me she had a labradoodle(paid $5,000) for it to only give it away after 3 years because it was a horrible dog. amybe she should have just got a bure breed poodle!


$5000 for a mixed breed??? Yikes!!!


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## Fidele (Sep 17, 2008)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Consider a field bred Golden Retriever- they are often considerably less with all the same clearances in my research
> 
> How do you find a field bred Golden?


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## jonesyboy (Sep 20, 2008)

We met a 10 week old LabraDoodle while we were camping this summer. It was the most adorable puppy. Are these new mixed breeds usually that expensive?? You see so many of them nowadays.


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## jwemt81 (Aug 20, 2008)

We got Tucker for $650. Both of his parents have all health clearances, plus he has great show and hunting blood lines. He is also AKC registered. If you are just looking for a nice pet, I personally think that $2000 is quite high!


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

Kirby'sMom said:


> $5000 for a mixed breed??? Yikes!!!


I see it all the time in my puppy classes...Have a doodle "breeder" in one of my classes right now (her dogs are $1900 - she told EVERYONE in class) and it's all I can do not to be really obnoxious - especially when she makes comments while pointing at my boy like "I'd like to add a dog like that to my program". Honestly, I've never seen a poodle-mix of any kind that I thought was cute, good looking or particularly fun to spend time with - I've met a lot of poodles that I like - but the mixes seem to have funky textured coats, awful heads, weird movement - nothing I've found appealing in the slightest.

I think the key here is looking at the dog and bitch likely to be used for doodles - first, most reputable breeders/stud dog owners are pretty careful about screening their homes - so the nice goldens and the nice poodles don't end up with people who are going to breed them to each other - so when you breed the worst examples of poodles and the worst examples of goldens you get pretty scary dogs - and yeah, I've seen more temperament issues with doodles than any other kind of dog (purebred or other mixed breeds). The other part is the population that gets sucked in by marketing ploys - the people who think that $5000 is a good price to pay for the product of what is likely irresponsibly bred parents...There are several doodle people in the area that LOVE telling people how much they paid for their dogs and asking other dog owners how much they paid for their purebred - "You ONLY paid $1200 for your lab? My Mitzy set us back $2200". 

I used to say "Buyer Beware" but honestly it's not the buyers that ultimately have to clean up the mess - most of the doodles I hear about end up in rescue because they shed, have too much energy, don't have good temperaments (and owners who don't want to put time into fixing the problem), breeders who won't stand by their puppies, etc etc etc...

Wow, how'd that turn into a rant?


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

As far as doodles they range just like any other. You can get them for $200 to thousands.

I think breeders usually (if not based on color) set their price according to the going price in the area, the quality of the dog trying to be bred, its pedigree and the reputation they have. A breeder with the reputation of standing behind the pups after the sale is going to charge more. 

I would love to have a $1500 puppy with a long-standing breeder relationship that I can count on. And I would love a mixed breed from the shelter because they have always been excellent dogs in my experience. And frankly, I'd buy a doodle for $500 if it was raised properly and had health guarentees. (No $5000 doodles for me)Sooooo many choices. You just have to weigh the risks and prepare and live with them and commit to the choice.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Im not a fan of Doodles but our rescue took in a golden doodle a couple weeks ago and he is one of the nicest doodles we have gotten and very smart.... at the age of 13 weeks, and has been very easy to house train and doing formal training


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## GoldenOwner12 (Jun 18, 2008)

On Einsteins pedigree all his grandmas,grandpas,dads are australian champions the only dog on his pedigree which was a champion was his mum. I got Einstein for $650 australian dollars on limited registration. Shelle had absolutely no champions on her pedigree and i got her forr $600 australian dollars on main registration. This breeder i think did wrong cause she had Shelleys sister who has a parrots beak top mouth over hanging the bottom and she is on main registration too,The whole litter is on main registration. I got Shelley spayed i'm not into breeding i will leave that to the pros. If you want a well natured,well bred,health clearences then go with a registered breeder and pay what there asking its all worth while. Just think of it this way you get a purebred golden from a byb for $600 but then when it turns 1 year old it comes down with hip dsplasia worst case is it will need hip replacments thats $10,000per hip ruffthy. Or instand of hip dsplasia it has different medical problems like uti keep coming and going, or ear infections,skin infections etc etc. I know with a breeder there dogs can also get hip dsplasia but the breeder also offeres help and will repalce puppy or offere money to help with treatment. Where with a byb they sell you the dog and you will get no help with them.


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## Kohanagold (Nov 5, 2008)

I dont know.... to me, that seems like a lot for a pet. But granted, I've always dealt with breeders that sell all their pups as pets. There is no distinction between show puppy or pet puppy, except they would generally let the "show people" pick first or they would evaluate the puppies and the show quality puppy went to somebody wanting to show and the pet puppies went to people looking for a pet. Here they're around 1000 with a non-breeding agreement and there is usually a clause that if you want to breed, you must finish the dogs Ch. and get clearances. I have heard that pups are more expensive in the Eastern states than the Western ones. BJ


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## wagondog (Aug 24, 2007)

BELLA said:


> I know a lot of you breeders may hate me but I would never buy a dog that way. All the dogs I have had have been from shelters or rescue groups. All my dogs have been mixed breeds too. As much as I like the golden, I wouldn;t pay anything more than $250 (which was what Bella was and the money went to the rescue group). When I see people with their stunning purebred goldens I just smile and look at my beautiful "mutt". I don;t plan on ever owning a purebred.


You are certainly entitled to your opinion and it is totally respected and I'm happy you are there for those dogs, however, there are also some of us that donate to shelters and really care about rescue dogs but would not choose to own one and I am one of those people. When I decide to commit to a dog, I want that dog to be mine from puppyhood to old age.
Many rescued dogs are again returned to the shelters because of behavioral issues, that I could not do. I'll take my money, find a reputable breeder, get a pup that has the best chance of good health through good breeding decisions and make that dog mine for the rest of his life. With that said, thank-you for being there for rescue dogs......


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## agoldenliferanch (Aug 1, 2008)

I'd like to interject another point for discussion when choosing a breeder and considering costs that I haven't seen mentioned before. Aside from all the other considerations already mentioned, nutrition to me is a vitally important issue as a consumer and a breeder. When I bought my last dog, how the breeder took care of the brood and what the dam and litter was fed was extremely important to me. How many breeders have you visited over the years that were feeding the litter a grocery brand when you visited? I know for me, it was way too many. The longevity issue is paramount to us, and yes we seek guidance and reassurance from the clearances of the parents and the overall genetic history. To me, it's also vitally important to know that all health precautions are taken, that premium nutrition is part of their care and that the pups have gotten the best start in their life for the first 8 weeks before I bring them home.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

I'm in NJ, and breeders charge more for dogs here.

Assuming you actually have the money and your husband is just having sticker shock, here's what you can say.

Dogs from better breeders have health clearances and are bred carefully for temperament. 

Over the course of its lifespan, a $1,500 dog is 29 cents a day. 
An $800 dog is 16 cents a day. 

The difference is 14 cents a day. What can you buy these days for a dime and four pennies? 

You could easily spend a month's worth of that "premium" in one visit to Starbucks.

If that $800 dog needs a $3,500 hip operation or a lifetime supply of thyroid meds, all of a sudden that bargain dog costs you 84 cents a day, or almost three times as much as the more expensive dog. 

While it's no guarantee, buying from a quality breeder stacks the odds in your favor that your dog will be healthy.

And just to make it clear, I'm not suggesting there's a direct price/quality correlation. I would much rather have a $900 dog from Arcane than a $3,000 dog from some other breeder. And if you're comfortable shipping the dog, it's certainly an option.

But that $800 price, especially around here, is more typical of a backyard breeder who may mean well, but doesn't have the kind of clearances you'd like.

In my short time here, I've heard enough sad stories about seven-month old puppies who need hip operations or have another serious chronic medical problem. While these owners love their dogs, they'll also be the first to encourage you to not make the same mistakes that they did, because an unhealthy dog is still a member of the family, not a car with a balky transmission. 

Skimp on dog beds and dog toys (or lattes), but don't skimp on the dog.



AquaClaraCanines said:


> Consider a field bred Golden Retriever- they are often considerably less with all the same clearances in my research
> 
> How do you find a field bred Golden?


In case you don't fully understand, a field bred golden is bred to be a hunting dog. While many of them can be wonderful pets, they have an energy level and "drive" that requires more exercise and mentally stimulating "work" than a "pet" or "conformation" bred golden. 
There are forums like this that specialize in field dogs, as well as many members here who have field goldens.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

wagondog said:


> You are certainly entitled to your opinion and it is totally respected and I'm happy you are there for those dogs, however, there are also some of us that donate to shelters and really care about rescue dogs but would not choose to own one and I am one of those people. When I decide to commit to a dog, I want that dog to be mine from puppyhood to old age.
> Many rescued dogs are again returned to the shelters because of behavioral issues, that I could not do. I'll take my money, find a reputable breeder, get a pup that has the best chance of good health through good breeding decisions and make that dog mine for the rest of his life. With that said, thank-you for being there for rescue dogs......


A man's got to know his limitations.

I agree with wagondog. I'm supporting rescue efforts by making sure that I find the best dog that I can, so there's no chance she'll end up needing to be rehomed. 

For people with the time and patience, rescue is a wonderful, noble thing. But our lifestyle is such that we'd rather do a great job with an "easy" dog that's healthy, good-tempered and easy to train, rather than a less-than-great job with a demanding dog. Our shelter dog, Alison, was wonderful when it was just my wife and me. But with her natural reticence around strangers, she would have been less than an ideal pet in a house with kids running around.

allen


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## Tinsley (Nov 11, 2008)

In the UK, I see most going from the equivalent of $1000-1200. In the cities they were going for this sort of price, but because I live in a county which is very sparsely populated and so doesn't have much money in it, I got Rupert for only $750 and he's just a pet but does have good lineage and clear eye certs/ both parents hip scored and so on.


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## wagondog (Aug 24, 2007)

avincent52 said:


> A man's got to know his limitations.
> 
> I agree with wagondog. I'm supporting rescue efforts by making sure that I find the best dog that I can, so there's no chance she'll end up needing to be rehomed.
> 
> ...


Allen........I didn't realize that us getting and keeping our dogs supports rescue as well as those who do rescue work. Good point! I have had dozens of dogs in my life and not one has not died in MY arms.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

It may just not be a good combo- I have never met a Labradoodle I liked, either (or Golden-doodle). But I like all three breeds themselves. Labs a little less- for me- they're hyper and they bark more and every single one I ever fostered had this high pitched god awful screaming bark in the crate. Something thankfully I have never experienced in all the many Goldens I have fostered. Maybe combined with the different nature of the poodle, the result is just NOT good! 

I love mutts but I just do not get the designer dog thing. Most of the expensive designer dogs are about the ugliest dogs in the world to me, where as many regular mixed breeds that are an accident and show up at the shelter are absolutely gorgeous!! BELLA's girl on here is one of the most beautiful dogs I have ever seen.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I love field/working bred Goldens, and I do not believe they do not make good pets. They DO require extensive exercise, but I think all Goldens should get that, regardless of breeding. I have lived with show bred, field bred, and everything in between/backyard bred Goldens, and all were perfectly lovely pets. My avatar dog was of great field bloodlines and was a dream dog. I did give him TONS of exercise and miles of walking, but he was just the greatest dog.

As for where to find one, you can try various working retriever websites for litter listings, or start emailing breeders and asking around by word of mouth. Some are $1500, but I have seen nice field lines/titled parents/all clearances good looking working bred pups for as little as $500 listed on working retriever websites. They are the smaller, slightly less hairy, and often redder colored Goldens, though. So if you want the blonde, very thick coated look, you'll want the show type. 

Here's one site's ad section: http://www.working-retriever.com/Classified.php?category=2 but that was just a quick google search. Try googling working or field golden retriever and exploring breeder websites. Maybe try your local Golden club and attend a field event. Some people simply prefer the field type anyway... and it'd be a good way to see the working side of the Golden breed and meet the dogs in person.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I have both rescue and breeder dogs..... Hootie and Abbie ended up in our rescue because there breeders had health issues and were no longer breeding dogs and no longer could take care of there dogs. None of my rescue dogs have "behavioral issues". And for the most part most, all our rescue dogs that have behavioral problems because *there owner* didnt take the time to train them and they are fixable. As for Cruiser being a rescue, he does have a heart murmur and I knew that when I adopted him, he has been one of the best dogs I have ever owned and call me crazy but I would take 5 more Cruisers from his breeder ..heart murmur and all...I have had dogs from breeders that have issues and yes it did took longer to work through them, but its like my kids, they have had behavioral issues and Im not going turn my backs on them either and we work through them. Im not against good breeders or rescues, Im sure in my lifetime, I will always own a breeder dog and rescue ones as well....


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Ditto Maggie's Mom. I have dogs from top show breeders (not Goldens) and one has genetic Separation Anxiety which few people could handle, at least in his younger years, though that aside he is the most push-button, mild mannered, easy dog I ever met. On the other hand foster Golden Piper is practically the best dog ever (a rescue) behavior wise and is so charming we keep thinking of reasons to foster her a little bit longer!


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

Maggies mom said:


> I have both rescue and breeder dogs..... Hootie and Abbie ended up in our rescue because there breeders had health issues and were no longer breeding dogs and no longer could take of there dogs. None of my rescue dogs have "behavioral issues". And for the most part most, all our rescue dogs that have behavioral problems because *there owner* didnt take the time to train them and they are fixable. As for Cruiser being a rescue, he does have a heart murmur and I knew that when I adopted him, he has been one of the best dogs I have ever owned and call me crazy but I would take 5 more Cruisers from his breeder ..heart murmur and all...I have had dogs from breeders that have issues and yes it did took longer to work through them, but its like my kids, they have had behavioral issues and Im not going turn my backs on them either and we work through them. Im not against good breeders or rescues.


Excellent points Mary. Every individual has to do what is right for their situation. Some people are better off with a rescue dog, while others should go the route which includes a well researched decision. I've gone both routes in my lifetime, and had good results both ways. Although, both of my poorly bred dogs were not around nearly long enough for me, and one required a lifetime of intensive medical care which some people would not be prepared to provide. Problem is, that can easily happen with a well bred dog as well.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I think it is fallacy to suggest that a shelter dog is there because of behavior issues. I have fostered over 35 goldens (that number does not include the mixed breed fosters), all but 5 or so were from shelters. Not one of them had any behavioral issues beyond the one or two who were cat aggressive. And that isn't an issue for many people. Most of my fosters ended up in shelters because of irresponsible owners, not because of anything that they did.

Both my boys are from shelters. Jasper and his litter were starved. The only issue he has is that he is timid. I blame that on the treatment he received before they were dumped. Danny had 2 serious heart defects. Those have been fixed. He has no behavioral issues. Matter of fact, both of them are the sweetest, most gentle dogs you could ever meet.

I have seen a lot of posts here from people who bought puppies and got them at 8-10 weeks old who have plenty of behavioral problems. 

So basically, making blanket statements about shelter dogs is really not right. And, as unpopular as this sounds, I do no believe that buying a dog and keeping it for it's entire life is helping rescues out. As long as there is demand, there will always be supply.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

That's true, too... it's always at least some what of a gamble. Many BYB dogs on this forum have lived to 16, 17, with few problems- others die so sadly young.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

vrocco1 said:


> Excellent points Mary. Every individual has to do what is right for their situation. Some people are better off with a rescue dog, while others should go the route which includes a well researched decision. I've gone both routes in my lifetime, and had good results both ways. Although, both of my poorly bred dogs were not around nearly long enough for me, and one required a lifetime of intensive medical care which some people would not be prepared to provide. Problem is, that can easily happen with a well bred dog as well.


I agree with you Vern, we just had a family who came and adopted a dog from us, who lost there 3 year old to cancer and this dog came from a *very good* breeder. The breeder was shocked when she found out, this was the first dog that she has ever had that died of cancer and there wasnt any cancer in the lines. So it can go either way, a good bred dog or a dog like Cruiser, he could live to be 10 or he could leave me tomorrow, and if that would happen I wouldnt regret taken him in with his medical condition what so ever....


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

fostermom said:


> I think it is fallacy to suggest that a shelter dog is there because of behavior issues.


As a matter of fact as of lately the dogs we have had being turned in to use isnt because of Behavior issues its because there family lost there jobs and homes and cant take proper care of there dogs.


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

Maggies mom said:


> I agree with you Vern, we just had a family who came and adopted a dog from us, who lost there 3 year old to cancer and this dog came from a *very good* breeder. The breeder was shocked when she found out, this was the first dog that she has ever had that died of cancer and there wasnt any cancer in the lines. So it can go either way, a good bred dog or a dog like Cruiser, he could live to be 10 or he could leave me tomorrow, and if that would happen I wouldnt regret taken him in with his medical condition what so ever....


I am not a firm believer that all cancers are genetic. I think much of it is a numbers game. One top show dog breeder in my area has a reputation of producing dogs with cancer. But, you also have to consider that this breeder has thousands of dogs out there. The larger the sample population, the more cancers you are going to find (in absolute numbers), no matter the breeding.


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## wagondog (Aug 24, 2007)

fostermom said:


> I think it is fallacy to suggest that a shelter dog is there because of behavior issues. I have fostered over 35 goldens (that number does not include the mixed breed fosters), all but 5 or so were from shelters. Not one of them had any behavioral issues beyond the one or two who were cat aggressive. And that isn't an issue for many people. Most of my fosters ended up in shelters because of irresponsible owners, not because of anything that they did.
> 
> Both my boys are from shelters. Jasper and his litter were starved. The only issue he has is that he is timid. I blame that on the treatment he received before they were dumped. Danny had 2 serious heart defects. Those have been fixed. He has no behavioral issues. Matter of fact, both of them are the sweetest, most gentle dogs you could ever meet.
> 
> ...


Please don't take my statement of "many shelter dogs" as a blanket statement referring to all that was not said and not intended. and I can't help wondering how keeping a dog it's entire life does not help decrease the number of rescues in shelters at least by one and by one more for every owner like me.. My life could change, my obligations could change, my dogs health could deteriorate but the shelter would never see my dog! sounds like one less dog in the shelter to me....I am aware that many rescues are good, solid dogs with good temperments however, I need to know that the dogs first glimpse of life was made as positive as possible by a trusted breeder. Many negative behavior issues can develop during those first several months and unfortunatly many of those issues remain with a dog forever. Many families who rescue from the shelters have neither the skills or the resources necessary to develop good behavior in a dog that requires work and training. That dog may very well revisit the shelter... mine will never see the shelter.


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## teresac (Nov 11, 2008)

We paid $700.00 in VA. Not a show dog but bred for families. He did come with papers and all of that as well. But we were more interested in a dog with a proven solid background with children.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

> Many families who rescue from the shelters have neither the skills or the resources necessary to develop good behavior in a dog that requires work and training. That dog may very well revisit the shelter... mine will never see the shelter.


I don't want to turn this into a rescue vs. breeder argument since those apparently have not gone well on this forum in the past. I also don't want to come across as thinking I am "superior" because I am involved in rescue. I don't do it because of how I think people might view me, I do it because I enjoy it and I am a dog geek.

That said, there are many people who buy puppies and when they hit 6-8 months old, they realize how much training is required along with the expenses involved and they dump them at the shelter. Your dog will never wind up there, but very many do.

My boys came from shelters and they will never wind up back there, either. But our rescue takes in the ones that are dumped there. Many of them are puppies whose owners didn't want to or could not handle the training that is required after they bought them.

I also do not blame the ruputable breeders for the ones that end up in the shelters. In general, the screening that they do on their puppy buyers is comparable to the screening that our rescue does on our adopters.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Puppies take more work and training than any rescue I have ever had, with the exception of extreme abuse/bad temperament/severe problem (ie, not even TAME, totally feral, etc) dogs.


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## wagondog (Aug 24, 2007)

fostermom said:


> I don't want to turn this into a rescue vs. breeder argument since those apparently have not gone well on this forum in the past. I also don't want to come across as thinking I am "superior" because I am involved in rescue. I don't do it because of how I think people might view me, I do it because I enjoy it and I am a dog geek.
> 
> That said, there are many people who buy puppies and when they hit 6-8 months old, they realize how much training is required along with the expenses involved and they dump them at the shelter. Your dog will never wind up there, but very many do.
> 
> ...


.
So many rescue dogs the laymen (me) read about are owned by the folks on this forum. just by the nature of the forum member being on this forum is indicitive of their concern for the well being of their dogs so they will give that dog the attention, care, and training the dog deserves. That small number is not a real good cross section example of families that adopt. In the perfect world I would hope that those families give the attention and care that you give, however, that may not be true. I just think (jmo) the person that researches a breeder, waits for the litter to arrive, plunks down the cash, and is subject to the references a reputable breeder requires is likely to put time and training into their dog. I may be entirely incorrect but that dog is not impulsively adopted from a shelter van parked outside PetSmart while the family happens to be walking by going to the Target store.
You are so correct in recognizing the need for rescue and I applaude you for making those efforts, and this is not about rescue vs breeder. It's just a nice way to allow different opinions to be raised.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

vrocco1 said:


> I am not a firm believer that all cancers are genetic. I think much of it is a numbers game. One top show dog breeder in my area has a reputation of producing dogs with cancer. But, you also have to consider that this breeder has thousands of dogs out there. The larger the sample population, the more cancers you are going to find (in absolute numbers), no matter the breeding.


I totally agree Vern. A dog/line may be predisposed to cancers, but I think its what the dog is exposed to that perhaps triggers it in many cases. What about the dog that dies early of a form of cancer and still has it's parents/grand/great-grand parents living well into their teens?  It isn't a black and white issue, I sure wish it was.


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

wagondog said:


> .
> I may be entirely incorrect but that dog is not impulsively adopted from a shelter van parked outside PetSmart while the family happens to be walking by going to the Target store.


Just wondering how those rescues work. Wouldn't they have to fill out an application first and their vet be contacted for they can just walk off with a dog?


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

I never completed a Petsmart adoption because the people who got to the pup we wanted decided to take him. I think..if I"m remembering right....they chose the puppy, it was saved for them and THEN they filled out the application.

But I think a pup adopted that way would be returned the same route and if there was a problem it could be noticed.


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## wagondog (Aug 24, 2007)

I won't attest to the procedure required from the adoption vans but I know that dogs leave with families that same day. What is checked or not checked I can't say. I do know however that one can go into our local adoption center on Long Island and leave with a dog within the hour .........that just seems impulsive to me.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Charlie06 said:


> wagondog said:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...


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## wagondog (Aug 24, 2007)

Maggies mom said:


> Charlie06 said:
> 
> 
> > Notta..... Our human society doesnt check anything , much less the shelters... I couldnt tell you how many times we went in and got a dog from these places as a person , not a rescue , no questions asked. With our rescue, the only way your walking out of our adoptions with a dog , same day, is if you have adopted from us before. otherwise your going through the whole process and it takes a few days.
> ...


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## jonesyboy (Sep 20, 2008)

Just as there are good and bad breeders, there are good and bad rescues. There may be places that let you take the dog home right away, but I know there are many places that have adoption days that don't let you bring them home that day. A lot of rescues around here are very, very picky where they place dogs.

Most people I know that get a dog put a lot of thought into the decision, irregardless of whether it's a rescue or purchase. They don't just get a dog on impulse because they saw a cute one outside a pet store. I would say that at least 75% of the people I know have gone the rescue route and I only know of 1 person who has ever returned the dog. The vast majority of them are happy, well adjusted, healthy dogs. Of the 25% that are purchased, I also only know 1 person that got rid of the dog. I know there are irresponsible owners out there, but in my circles people that get dogs seem to view it as a commitment for the life of the dog.

I don't think there's anything wrong with researching & buying a purebred from a reputable breeder. But I think it's a fallacy to say that rescue dogs are more prone to having behavioral or health problems. It also adds to the IMO false attitude that a purebred dog is somehow better than a pound puppy.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

Remember that this thread started with someone wondering about dog prices.

I think we can all agree that dog ownership is a big responsibility regardless of whether you get a puppy from a breeder or a dog or pup from a rescue, and that each dog is going to bring its own rewards and challenges. 

I think that we can all agree that while there are exceptions and no guarantees, a dog owner increases his or her odds of getting a healthy golden from a skilled breeder whose dogs have clearances (rather than a pet shop or a for-profit backyard breeder.) 

I think we can all agree that the initial purchase price is a small fraction of our lifetime investment (both in time and money) in our dogs. 

And, finally, we all have to make our own choices about where we get our animals, and by being honest with ourselves we're likely to end up with the right dog, and at the very least, we won't end up contributing to the pet overpopulation problem.

best
Allen


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

This thread has covered a lot of topics.


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## Kohanagold (Nov 5, 2008)

vrocco1 said:


> I am not a firm believer that all cancers are genetic. I think much of it is a numbers game. One top show dog breeder in my area has a reputation of producing dogs with cancer. But, you also have to consider that this breeder has thousands of dogs out there. The larger the sample population, the more cancers you are going to find (in absolute numbers), no matter the breeding.


I agree... I also think that while cancer is a VERY scary thing and the very word strikes fear into anyone, it is everywhere... dogs and people. Its devistating and an awful disease, but I dont think its a cut and dried genetic problem.


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

jonesyboy said:


> We met a 10 week old LabraDoodle while we were camping this summer. It was the most adorable puppy. Are these new mixed breeds usually that expensive?? You see so many of them nowadays.


They are considered "designer" dogs.
When we were doing our reasurch on dogs before we got Cody we found that all the mixed breeds are more expensive than a pure breed dog.
Imagine paying $3,000 for a beagle/pug x. 

Even our local Pet store where I buy our dog food sells cross breeds only these days. Its like the in thing. 
I remember I was very intrested in a boxer/bulldog x and the pet store wanted $1,200 for him. My DH almost lost his shorts when I asked how much the puppy was, lol


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## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> I have to pipe in in defence of the Standard Poodle. They are actually wonderful dogs- calmer and I dare say smarter than most dogs, including most retrievers (and I am a Golden lover). They are wonderful, intelligent, hard working, awesome dogs.


I have to agree with Jenna on this one. Every standard poodle I've met have been awesome! Extremely smart, but very loving. 

I did not pay anything for my golden. She was bought by my aunt for $800 and is registered, but she was given to me when she was 14 months old. I'll only pay whatever the rescue charges for a dog. But I don't have a problem with a responsible breeder. But I do think it's smarter to pay $1000 for a well bred dog than $200 for a BYB dog who may or may not have health problems down the road that will cost you $$$


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## tintallie (May 31, 2006)

Dr. Stanley Coren, a professor at the University of British Columbia and author of The Intelligence of Dogs, ranked the following breeds in learning a command after about 5 repetitions:

1. Border Collie
2. Poodle
3. German Shepherd Dog
4. Golden Retriever
an so on (the rest of the list is here: http://www.stanleycoren.com/e_intelligence.htm)

I think Poodles get a bad rap with that image of being a foo foo dog all dressed up in bows in its Continental clip (which btw comes from keeping the fur around the vital parts that would get cold when the Poodle went into the water for a retrieve). The standard poodle I encountered was very smart and it is one of the original retrievers!

http://www.poodlehistory.org/
http://www.lakelandhuntingpoodles.com/Breed.htm

Back to the OP's question. DH and I paid $1000 for our pup (he's 2.5 and still a pup) and my original intent was to pay a reputable breeder who did clearances (hip/elbow/heart/eye) and involved in a venue with their dogs (conformation/field/hunt/etc). Part of my reasoning was that this could off set future heart break and vet bills because I was trying to find a well bred dog. It is by no means a guarantee, but it certainly increases the probability of a healthy dog. Currently, our dog has some dietary restrictions that we figured out by an elimination diet so we feed him raw to make it easier on his digestive tract and me, the pooper scooper.

The next time round, I would still want to purchase a dog from a reputable breeder and raise the dog from puppyhood because I feel there is a great bond. It's not that there wouldn't be one if you rescued a dog (who would probably be very grateful), but I kind of like to start from a blank slate with genetics on my side if possible!


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## RummysMum (Jan 9, 2009)

On shelter and rescue dogs... I got my Holly (my first and only dog who has now passed) through a rescue, she was free of charge. She was a senior and had health issues, however, she was amazing. One giant loving teddy bear. I miss her terribly.

I do believe rescue dogs are a wonderful option, not just in terms of cost, but the fact that you are saving a little life, and one more dog rescued is one less puppymill dog that is being asked for. However, I do think there is a risk with rescue dogs that do come with issues, with goldens many of those issues are health related. My Holly was a poster child for poor breeding and the health issues that stem from bad genetics. My Holly had hip probems, joint problems, and passed from Cancer.


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