# antlers...uh oh



## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

I don't feed antlers but that is scary information you present there. I wonder what they consider is a safe quantity to give your dog. How much of an antler do they actually consume?


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## kgiff (Jul 21, 2008)

I'm seriously running out of things to let my dogs chew on. Currently we're down to antlers and sterilized beef bones. Ugh. Off to do some research.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

This seems scary, similar to CJD and Mad Cow Disease where the normal prion proteins are converted to the abnormal, diseased proteins. Off to research. I just had a class last semester that went over this.

I haven't looked into anything yet, but can CWD be contracted from only chewing? Or does the entire antler need to be eaten?

With Mad Cow the brain matter of cows is what spread the disease. Farmers feeding brains to other cows that were used for meat. Cyclic process. I would wonder if one would have to consume the diseased brain/meat. It also says that it is spread by urine and feces. I'm sure that we've all cleaned the antlers before giving them to the dogs.

I just looked here for a few minutes. Some good info.

http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fuseaction/about.faq


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

what I found said it's in high concentrations in the velvet, as well as in the interior of the antler.
what next?!?


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

CWD is down right rare in Maine....so not a big concern for me personally. 
If I lived in other parts of the country where the disease was more prevalent...it would be higher on my radar...not only for the dogs, but for my families personal consumption of farm-raised and/or wild venison.

From Maine's DIFW:
_In a 1999 cooperative study, DIFW, DOA, and Center for Disease Control officials tested 299 hunter-killed white-tailed deer from the western mountains and foothills of Maine. All deer tested negative for CWD. In 2002, DIFW biologists tested 831 hunter-killed deer from all areas of the state. All deer tested negative for CWD. Similar negative results were obtained from 810 deer in 2003, 756 deer in 2004, 819 deer in 2005 and 909 deer in 2006.

No sick animals that may fit the clinical profile for CWD have ever been brought to the attention of the Department of Agriculture (DOA) or private veterinarians from among Maine's licensed deer farms. Since autumn of 2001, more than 1,900 farmed-raised elk and deer slaughtered in Maine have been tested for CWD. To date, all tests have been negative for CWD.

In a 1999 cooperative study, DIFW, DOA, and Center for Disease Control officials tested 299 hunter-killed white-tailed deer from the western mountains and foothills of Maine. All deer tested negative for CWD. In 2002, DIFW biologists tested 831 hunter-killed deer from all areas of the state. All deer tested negative for CWD. Similar negative results were obtained from 810 deer in 2003, and from 756 deer in 2004, and 819 deer in 2005.

At this time, we consider Maine to be CWD-free, based on available evidence. However, we are stepping up surveillance for wild deer and captive/farmed cervids to better evaluate CWD status in Maine, as is being done throughout the U.S. 
_


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Antlers supposedly are used in chinese herbs for arthritis and hip dysplasia and pain relief. Our acupuncture vet prescribed a formulation that contained deer antlers in it. When our regular vet found out about it she called me and told me to stop giving Barkley the herbal formulation immediately because the risk of contracting CWD was so high. She said the herbal formulations are not regulated by the FDA and there are no standards for the manufacturing process and grinding of the antlers to ensure purity of the source; therefore we should assume the risk is there. I took Barkley off the formulation immediately and didn't research it further. I'm curious as to what others have discovered here. I assume letting a dog chew on an antler is just as risky as taking an herbal formulation with deer antler in it. That's why we never give our dogs the antlers to chew.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

I ordered my antlers online, so I really have no knowledge of where it came from. Was it a CWD-risk area? 

I'm going to look into CWD's prevalence in PA, too. Good idea, Mary!


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## Augustus McCrae's Mom (Aug 14, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> what I found said it's in high concentrations in the velvet, as well as in the interior of the antler.
> what next?!?


Can you post a link to what you're reading? This sucks.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I've always questioned this when I first learned that people were using them for their dogs. I've seen too many deer with CWD, and TB. I can't see taking a chance.


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## Augustus McCrae's Mom (Aug 14, 2007)

I got our antlers from petexpertise.com, and I know some other people here get them from them too. This is the only thing I found that they say about where they get them from:

Our antler chews for dogs are from free-ranging North American deer or elk. Some of the antlers are naturally shed and some of the antlers are harvested from animals that have been hunted for sport or food (and not for their antlers!).
___

The first antlers we gave the dogs were off a deer my husband killed himself, so I suppose if we were to only give them antlers from deers he killed, we could have them tested for CWD.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

As far as CWD being rare in your area, how do you know where the antlers came from? Presumably they could come from anywhere, including China (and we know how horribly negligent China is in regulating ingredients). I would assume any antler product is suspect and risky unless and until you have 100% proof of the source.


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## kaysy (Jan 9, 2010)

Aren't antlers and hooves hard on the enamel on a dogs teeth? There's even concern that tennis balls thrown outside, picking up dirt can be abrasive. I use the gumabone type things, ropes and kongs.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

The CDC article I found only referenced finding prions in elk brain material and the velvet portion of the antler. Can you link to the article you read?

I'm not all that concerned at this point. Heck, there's something bad about almost everything-even water can kill you if you drink too much.


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## MillysMom (Nov 5, 2008)

What is the velvet portion of the antler?


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

The velvet is the soft, skin like outer covering of antlers. When deer rub their antlers on trees, etc., they are rubbing off the velvet.


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## MillysMom (Nov 5, 2008)

Thanks for clarifying.


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## FinnTastic (Apr 20, 2009)

What if you feed your dog dog food with venison in it? I think we use a venison and rice formula from Nature's Recipe.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> I've always questioned this when I first learned that people were using them for their dogs. I've seen too many deer with CWD, and TB. I can't see taking a chance.


All the more important to know your source. Mine come from a captive elk population on an elk farm 15 miles from our house...

E


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## goldencontriever3 (Nov 7, 2008)

FinnTastic said:


> What if you feed your dog dog food with venison in it? I think we use a venison and rice formula from Nature's Recipe.


I also feed one of mine Hills venison and potato. I was wondering the same thing.


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## Augustus McCrae's Mom (Aug 14, 2007)

I would assume that with deer being used for food, they are probably farm-raised and tested before being used for food.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Dallas Gold said:


> As far as CWD being rare in your area, how do you know where the antlers came from? Presumably they could come from anywhere, including China (and we know how horribly negligent China is in regulating ingredients). I would assume any antler product is suspect and risky unless and until you have 100% proof of the source.


In my particular case...they are hand harvested, natural drops from the Maine woods...


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Augustus McCrae's Mom said:


> I would assume that with deer being used for food, they are probably farm-raised and tested before being used for food.


Unless it has been tested according to FDA standards I would not assume they were farm-raised or tested for food or anything else. With all the pet food and toy recalls of years past I now assume nothing.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Any sheds or naturally dropped antlers wouldn't have velvet and most deer killed in a legal hunt in SC have no velvet because they would have already rubbed it off in preparation for rutting season. So the risk from velvet would be minimal and you could tell by looking at it if velvet was present in any significant amount.

I don't know about the marrow though. We've only found one shed antler during our numerous trail rides and the dogs lost interest in it pretty quickly since it seemed to be at least a couple of seasons old. It decorates my end table now.

This is intereesting though and I will do some research too as soon as I have time.


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Finn is chewing on an elk antler that I bought at the dog show yesterday from an elk farmer. He claimed that he gets them from his own elk, not natural sheds out in the mountains. Barb, I'd love to read the article and may have to give up on this entertainment for the pup, as well.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I've read about 10 articles about it, went back and re-read everything, and they ALL refer to the velvet. Every last one.
So perhaps the antlers themselves are safe? Or was it just that they only tested the velvet because it's what's used as a nutritional supplement?


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

hotel4dogs said:


> I've read about 10 articles about it, went back and re-read everything, and they ALL refer to the velvet. Every last one.
> So perhaps the antlers themselves are safe? Or was it just that they only tested the velvet because it's what's used as a nutritional supplement?


The articles I looked at mentioned the velvet as a nutritional supplement and also the theory that the velvet falling to the ground in the woods could be another source of CWD getting into the environment and into other hosts.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Tahnee GR said:


> The CDC article I found only referenced finding prions in elk brain material and the velvet portion of the antler. Can you link to the article you read?
> 
> I'm not all that concerned at this point. Heck, there's something bad about almost everything-even water can kill you if you drink too much.


That's all I could find either, and it was based off of one paper, so far as I can tell.


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## zeke11 (Jul 21, 2009)

Well, I'm glad I found this thread as I was just on Amazon, preparing to order Duffy some antlers.

I just threw out the bully stick. OMG, it was SOOOO stinky, horrible. The dogs absolutely loved it, adored it, but I could not stand the stench. Maybe it was the brand, idk, (Red Barn). 

So I was proceeding to the next option - antlers. Now, I think I'll take a pass. Why take a chance on anything these days?

I have now eliminated rawhide (stinky farts), bully sticks and antlers. My dogs aren't crazy about the nylabones. I have some frozen marrow bones, but those are only for outside and we have several inches of snow so no place for them to lay out and chew....

Plus, I like them to have something to keep them occupied in the house or they end up restless and bored.

I reallllly can't wait for spring!

Kris


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## Merlins mom (Jun 20, 2007)

So I emailed Pet Expertise to get their take on this. They responded promptly (within a few hours) but were a little vague. While they state that their antlers don't come from CWD areas, they didn't say what area they do come from. Also, in their response was nothing about the velvet carrying the disease and I found research indicating that online myself. I'm not going to throw my antler out yet, but doubt I'll be ordering anymore.

Their email response:

>>Hi Sarah,

We have researched this as well. 

First, our antlers are not from areas infected with CWD. 

Second, here is what we found during our research:
"There is no evidence that CWD poses a risk for dogs. Canids are generally considered resistant to TSE's: With BSE, a small number of cat species (both domestic and large zoo cats) have acquired the disease by eating affected cattle, but there is no documentation of BSE amongst the millions of domestic dogs (or foxes) who would have eaten BSE infected cattle.
Furthermore, CWD risk is not in the antlers, but in other tissues, such as brain, lymph nodes, spinal fluid, etc.
http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fuseaction/recommendations.questions
Hope this helps to alleviate your concerns.
Tia Kropf-Beringer
CWD Alliance
[email protected] "

I hope this helps, please let me know if you have any further questions.<<


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I'm not worried after reading the articles, and I plan to continue using antlers for my dogs.

I believe the elk antler velvet study is very recent and I think, just one study.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

zeke11 said:


> Well, I'm glad I found this thread as I was just on Amazon, preparing to order Duffy some antlers.
> 
> I just threw out the bully stick. OMG, it was SOOOO stinky, horrible. The dogs absolutely loved it, adored it, but I could not stand the stench. Maybe it was the brand, idk, (Red Barn).
> 
> ...


Free Range Dog Chews brand makes non stinky bully sticks, they're just really expensive. But frankly, it's worth not having to smell that godawful bully stick smell. I think they're called MOO Bully Sticks.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

It's pretty clear that there's no indication at this point that even a single dog has ever contracted CWD from an antler. Are there any documented instances at all of pet dogs contracting CWD in any way? Honestly, just because scientists can use elk velvet to give the disease to mice is no reason to fear that dogs could even get it from velvet, much less a clean antler.


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

zeke11 said:


> I just threw out the bully stick. OMG, it was SOOOO stinky, horrible. The dogs absolutely loved it, adored it, but I could not stand the stench. Maybe it was the brand, idk, (Red Barn).


Make sure to buy *Moo* Brand, they are odor free. I buy the 12" Supreme in bulk from K9 Cuisine. http://www.k9cuisine.com/p-245-free-range-dog-chews-moo-bully-sticks.aspx


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## Sophie_Mom (Jan 21, 2009)

Sophie loves the Moo Bully sticks (and they truly are odorless - wonderful!), but we rarely get them for her anymore. She demolishes them in less than 10 minutes. She has had an antler for almost a year that she still loves to work on - no problems at all with that. Her favorite things is getting a new marrow bone though! We let her have them in the house, but she is trained perfectly to keep it on a towel until it's good and cleaned off. Her face is pure bliss when she gets a good position for the marrow!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I am not a medical expert by any means; however, in the human version of CWD eating ANY part of an infected animal can infect the human. We obviously don't eat the antler portion, but it just seems to me if the rest of the animal is infected the antlers, antler velvet and everything else on the animal could potentially be infected as well. As far as my dogs, we steer clear of antlers and our regular vet insisted we stop using a chinese herb with ground up deer antlers due to the risk of CWD. The herb was prescribed by a holistic veterinarian for Barkley's hip dysplasia and arthritis. Our regular vet based her opinion on something she found in her research and discussions on a veterinarian forum. I took her at her word as she has the degree and we pay her the big bucks. Our holistic acupuncture vet obviously feels differently; however, in light of the herbs originating in China that was reason enough for me to throw the bottle of herbs out.


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## arp123 (Jan 14, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> For those of you who give your dogs antlers to chew on, are you familiar with the research that indicates that they contain reasonably high levels of chronic wasting disease prions if the animal is infected?
> Just wondered how everyone feels about it. Apparently repeated exposure over time, even at low levels, can result in CWD.
> My info. comes from the U.S. CDC.


Hello,

I saw your post regarding deer antlers and CWD.

I have a 16 wk old teething Golden and allow her to chew on deer antlers, however, I am concerned about CWD. I could not find any CDC information specifically about antlers. Could you please post the URL to the CDC for information?

Thanks.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

here's some general information about CWD (the references at the end mention it being transmitted to humans:
CDC - Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD)
and some information about it being found in the velvet on antlers:
http://www.cdc.gov/eid/content/15/5/pdfs/696.pdf
hope that helps. I, for one, am not willing to take the chance, there are plenty of other things out there for dogs to chew on. But to each their own, the risk is probably pretty small.


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## Jamm (Mar 28, 2010)

Oh man that sucks! I just saw this now! Joey has one antler that he doesnt chew on too much because my mom says it 'scratches' the floor.. But thanks for posting this! I guess this will be his last time with an antler in the house!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I've posted my opinion about deer antlers above, based on conversations with several of my Barkley's veterinarians about CWD, but did want to point out that I asked a veterinarian at the clinic we patronize about deer antlers and dog teeth and she said it was not a good idea :no: for dental health because they are too hard for them.


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

tippykayak said:


> It's pretty clear that there's no indication at this point that even a single dog has ever contracted CWD from an antler. Are there any documented instances at all of pet dogs contracting CWD in any way? Honestly, just because scientists can use elk velvet to give the disease to mice is no reason to fear that dogs could even get it from velvet, much less a clean antler.


I agree with you 100%. There has NEVER been a documented case of a dog getting Chronic Wasting Disease and this is simply fear mongering. Also, given my particular location (Canada) I feel EXTREMELY confident that any antler I give wouldn't have been exposed to it regardless. 

On a side note... I don't let them chew them because they are too hard LoL.:doh:


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## Cathy's Gunner (Dec 4, 2008)

O.K. now I'm concerned. Gunner loves his deer antlers. He is a very aggressive chewer and can chew one down very quickly. I have asked the people that I buy them from about how safe they can be. Here are is my question and her answer:

Hi Katybeth,

I have been telling several people about your deer antlers. I have a few questions regarding how safe they are... Where do they come from and how do we know that these deer were disease free? One person is telling me if a deer has chronic wasting disease that it can be passed along to our dogs. What can I tell these people? Thanks for your help. Cathy



Hi Cathy, 

Well.....


The antlers come from sheds in Utah and Montana. They are shed naturally.


Nothing is 100% safe as we all found out from the recent dog food disaster. Greenies have a terrible reputation for choking and blockages, and bones can splinter. I guess the big difference is we give our own dogs deer antlers and have a number of vets who recommend them to their clients. Doberman breeders love them. The Wasting question has come up on forums....it is considered highly unlikely but I guess not impossible. In over five years of selling deer antlers we have never had anyone tell us they have made there pup sick. 


Having said all this, I would never try to convince a dog person of anything  we sell Deer Antlers and believe them to be the greatest chew we have ever given our own dogs but we only want to sell to customers that are completely comfortable giving them to their pups. There are lots of things I don't give my dogs--Greenies, products from Overseas, colored bones (when they throw them up the dye stains) but I am comfortable with deer antlers. We trust our customers to make the best decisions for their own pups.


Please let me know, If I can answer any other questions and I will try my best! 


Happy New Year,



Katybeth

Katybeth Jensen,PPS
Professional Pet Spoiler
deerantlersforpups
oddlovescompany

​


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

This has been discussed over and over on the list, and the conclusion has been that there is no danger to dogs of getting CWD from deer antlers. In fact, there is a question as to whether dogs can even get CWD:

Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD)


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I just don't want my dog(s) to be the first documented case of CWD....The fact my veterinarian clinic highly discourages their use for that reason, as well as the dental damage they can inflict, cements my personal choice to ban them from our house.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

In general, those who specialize in doggie dentistry hate any of the hard type chewing products... they tend to cause slab fractures of the shearing teeth. I have seen a lab that ate the point off a cow hoof, it perforated his intestine, gave him peritonitis, and killed him. I'm at odds with bullies and rawhides as they are so preserved and frequently come from another country. I stopped feeding pressed rawhide when the package I wanted to buy said "package irradiated for safety." They do like those antlers.


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