# 16 weeks & still biting



## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

Goldens are basically working dogs that enjoy learning and doing stuff. I'd suggest that more training - not more playing or more exercise - might be the way to go. It's a great idea to take a second obedience class. At home, instead of playing with her, try a series of short (5 minutes) training sessions throughout the day. When my dog was a pup, I fed him most of his meals during training sessions - using pieces of kibble as rewards. We'd practise one or two commands each session: starting with the basic commands (sit, lie down, stand, stay, come) and then moving onto simple tricks (spin, etc.). The mental effort tired him out a lot more than walks or play sessions. Also, I would feed his evening meal during our walk on leash, using pieces of kibble to reward him for not pulling, being attentive to me, etc. By training, not only are you getting a dog that's easier to live with, but you're also changing the nature of your relationship with the dog, in that she is doing the things that you want, rather than the other way round. In other words, you're running the show, not her.

As for eating gravel and sticks, it's a problem because goldens explore the world through their mouths. The only way to stop it, really, is not to leave her outside on her own. My last golden wasn't too bad for this, but my current one was terrible as a puppy - he would try and pull bushes out of the ground to eat them. So he just wasn't allowed out alone. Even now - he's 18 months old - the first thing he does when he goes outside is to find a stick to chew. If I take my lunch outside (I'm self-employed, working from home), he will spend time ripping up chunks of grass (with the roots) and tossing them in the air. So it doesn't always go away. 

The biting and eating of stuff doesn't necessarily have anything to do with your pup's personality. It's mainly a management problem. You wouldn't find a gentler dog in the world than mine - he's a sweetheart - but he's also a mobile garbage disposal unit and has to be closely managed outside for his own safety. As for the biting, it really does come down to training. Once you've trained some "desirable" behaviours - sit, down, etc. - and at 4 months old your pup really should have been taught to do this kind of stuff - then you'll find it easier to control her.

Best of luck. Goldens can be difficult pups, but if you lay the groundwork when they're young, they make wonderful companions.


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## Genevieve's mom (Mar 27, 2017)

We train her several times each day. She is very good with sit, down, up, wait, and tummies (which means show us your tummy while you are laying down). She is also pretty good with "leave it" and with "give". The biting pretty much draws blood every time. It's been that way since we got her. I know that we aren't doing everything correctly. We had Goldens in the past - four of them - two we had as puppies and two were Senior Goldens (way over 10 years old) that we rescued from Nor Cal Golden Retriever Rescue. Does anybody know if fruit has too much sugar and that could be causing her to act up? The corrections we have tried for biting include looking directly in her eyes while holding the scruff of her neck, turning our backs to her, walking away for a period of time (30 seconds), yelping "ouch", etc. We've tried pretty much every suggestion I've found in a book or online. Thank you.


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## Mayabear (Aug 26, 2015)

I think the truth about puppy biting with goldens is that it is inevitable and that every management tool you incorporate will only work for a short period of time, if at all. But what is also inevitable is that this land shark phase will pass.

I can tell you from personal experience that the "ouch/oww" game does not work. More often than not, we are not able to replicate a puppy's yelp, so our high pitched "ouch" only riles up the puppy more. I am not a big proponent of grabbing the pup by the scruff even though I do acknowledge this is how the mum would discipline an unruly pup. 

Turning our back to the dog did not work either. Maya simply proceeded to bite us from behind!

What did work was getting up and walking away and stopping play completely. Going into another room altogether. Maya soon understood her behavior was causing us to distance ourselves from her. It took a lot of time, but eventually she outgrew the phase. I honestly cannot comment on whether it was attributable to our actions, or that she simply outgrew the phase. 

So hang in there, train hard and know that it will definitely improve with the passage of time. I would also suggest using one way to manage the biting that is consistently used by everyone in your home. Multiple tools may not drive home the point.


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## usually lurking (Apr 21, 2017)

The best solution that I have found for persistant mouthers is spearmint binaca. When your pup starts mouthing, pull away, douse whatever part of you she was biting in binaca, and continue on. She isn't going to want to taste that. Worked like a charm on both of my last two, who, despite trying other methods, refused to stop mouthing. You only spray when she bites, not before. In effect, you're teaching her that if she puts her teeth on you, you're going to smell and taste bad. In fact, the scent alone was enough to make my current dog back off. He stopped mouthing within a week.


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## FosterGolden (Mar 10, 2014)

It sounds like maybe you got a puppy from a line that needs a job. More training may work or getting involved in a sport. Since you are retired, you have options. Rally, nosework, field work, tracking, obedience, dock diving, agility, trick dogs, barn hunt...the list is long. It's not cheap, but it's healthy and you'll find lots of new friends, get outside more, and the bond you create with your dog will be like no other. 

When she is doing something you don't want and you ask her to sit, then what? Do you reward her for that? I would. Do you reward her for the training you do? What about when you ask her to leave it or drop it? Is she rewarded when she does that? She is still very young and it's important to reinforce good behaviors. Personally, I still reinforce good behaviors in my adults and carry treats when they are off leash. If my dogs are called off of a deer, I think they should be paid for that, even when they "know better". 

She may need more mental stimulation in the way of nature walks. You can put a long line on her and take her on trails, let her sniff and just be a dog. That is pretty exhausting for them and extremely healthy. Being retired, if you have something like this available, it should be easier for you to go to places like this when it's not very crowded. 

As far as biting goes, have you told the dog what you do want? Have you tried putting a toy in her mouth and then rewarding her by playing and gushing over her? She is just four months old and if you have tried everything in the book, I am thinking that you have tried things for a day or two and when it didn't work, tried something else. Dogs need consistency and it takes time for them to learn. You really just need to decide one method and stick with it. By now, your pup finds this behavior self-rewarding and it's become a habit. Instead of what you are doing, show her what you want and reward her for that. The scruff shakes, staring into her eyes, etc. are a good way to get bit. Those methods are outdated and do nothing more than scare a dog and create distrust. In some dogs, it makes them mad and they lash out, or perhaps they become defensive. It just depends on the dog's temperament. 

Overall, to me, she just seems bored and is latching on to whatever is fun and rewarding for her. The fact that she was from a c-section or a little of 12 does not matter. You may have purchased a puppy from working or field lines or you just happened to get a puppy that was more than you bargained for. It's hard to know how they are going to be when they are baby puppies, and frankly, she is still very young and likely to grow into a fine adult as long as you put in the time and effort. 

You can try a different food. I have heard that dogs with anxiety do better with a non-processed diet (i.e., no kibble, only raw). If you think it's the fruit just stop feeding it for awhile and see if it helps.


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## CoopersMom16 (Dec 29, 2016)

I found the biting to be the worst at 4-7 months. Nothing worked. But at 8 months it just started to diminish. Now at 9 months, it's more of an occasional excited thing. But still we have a couple of occurrences a day. I've never had a puppy that bit before and it's certainly the worst thing about Golden puppies but it does eventually go away. Unfortunately it's been replaced by chewing on furniture.


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## bqkali (Apr 19, 2017)

Just a thought - my puppy decreased his biting episodes when he got MORE naps. I think I was trying so hard to exercise him and provide mental stimulation/training that he was cranky from being exhausted all the time. Admittedly my puppy is younger than yours.

The other thing that has seemed to help for us is by doing lots of little training sessions. Instead of training for 20 minutes at a time, try 5 minutes during four separate sessions. Each training session seems to calm our pup down, especially if we start the session when we see a tantrum coming on  It's not perfect, but it is an improvement.

I am NOT an expert by any means...trust me, we still have our own sets of puppy problems!!! You're not alone!


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## mmolleur (Dec 18, 2015)

*It will pass!*

Someone here told me something I really needed when my arms were black and blue: Goldens are among the worst puppies but they are the best dogs. So hang in there. I agree that more training might help. Consistency matters a lot. She'll probably calm down a bit soon and then she'll be teething and everything will be back to square #1. But it's not you; it's not her, it's normal. I tell people now that I spent the first six months trying to keep my dog alive because he would swallow anything. But he is alive! He's 14 months old and a big cuddly love-bug who mostly listens to me. Just keep the faith, keep posting and reading and reaching out for support.


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## RufusTFirefly (Feb 17, 2017)

bqkali said:


> Just a thought - my puppy decreased his biting episodes when he got MORE naps. I think I was trying so hard to exercise him and provide mental stimulation/training that he was cranky from being exhausted all the time. Admittedly my puppy is younger than yours.
> 
> The other thing that has seemed to help for us is by doing lots of little training sessions. Instead of training for 20 minutes at a time, try 5 minutes during four separate sessions. Each training session seems to calm our pup down, especially if we start the session when we see a tantrum coming on  It's not perfect, but it is an improvement.
> 
> I am NOT an expert by any means...trust me, we still have our own sets of puppy problems!!! You're not alone!


I second this recommendation. Almost always when our puppy enters TOTALLY BONKERS MODE (usually once a day during the evening), I can set her in the X-Pen and leave her for a few minutes. When I look back at her, she's dead-to-the-world asleep. She comes out 30 minutes later refreshed and better behaved. Their puppy brain only has so much self control and it's even less when they're tired.

Our puppy sounds a lot like yours in personality. Very independent and determined (not a cuddlier either). You're definitely not alone.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

My very first and now oldest golden retriever Brady was like that. He was terrible, and not one this the trainers told me to do worked. I now have five, and the other four were hardly mouthy at all, including the 14 week old I have.

One thing I noticed is he got mouthier when he was tired. When he became a landshark, I would lock him in his crate for a nap like a baby. He would fall asleep in 3 minutes!

I would also keep him leashed to my waist, so I could have some control of him. He first stopped biting my husband, about a month later me and my then four year old, and then finally my then 8 and 9 year old. They would run and squeal from him, so that just encouraged things. Right around 7 or 8 months he finally calmed down, became a velcro dog and became the best adult dog I could ask for. He did not totally stop the nipping until we got golden number 2.


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## Genevieve's mom (Mar 27, 2017)

I appreciate all the suggestions. We do reward her with treats for sitting, down, come, wait, stay, etc. I can't believe she doesn't weigh 70 pounds by now:wink2:with all the treats she gets during training. I too have noticed that right after she goes "crazy" she goes to sleep. Kind of reminds me of a little kid who is fussy and doesn't want to take a nap (even though I have never had kids myself). The one thing that has worked the best is to leave her completely alone - leave the room or leave the area. When I say "she bites", I mean she breaks the skin and draws blood - more than what I would consider "mouthy". She is just so good with so many other issues - the Dremel isn't a problem, having her nails clipped is fine with her, sounds pretty much don't bother her, she is very social and likes every person and every dog she meets. I'm sure we will work things out as she grows up and we are better able to communicate with her in a way she can understand. My husband has even trained her to sit and wait for her meals. It only took him a week or so to get her to do this. She is very food oriented so treats are a big part of each day. I do wonder if she is more of a "field" Golden. We got her in Washington, from Soundview Farms in Hansville. They have "show" Goldens but I have to admit I never really asked the question about her line. I was more concerned about the OFA clearances and health issues. We'll keep working at it. They are a great breed!!! And she's cute as a button.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

I just realized the connection to the UTI post... please remember that having a UTI is extremely painful. Her behavior will change completely once it's cleared up. Maybe this will help with the training.


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## zoeythewonderdog (Mar 18, 2017)

lots of good suggestions above, only thing I want to add is learn how to use a clicker, and click-treat for the pup chomping on "approved" items, in addition to limiting access to non-approved items. I'm just starting this with my ten-week-old pup. we've just done 2 sessions - last night's dinner and breakfast this morning, This pup was introduced to the clicker from the first day I had her, and has never received a meal in a bowl from me - all food rations are used for clicker training. Training priorities are set by "what's pissing me off the most this week," and this week it's the relentless biting and chomping. In other words, this is training for "life skills", not the sits and downs that seem to take up so much of the time in puppy class. The clicker engages the thinking part of the dog, and chomping comes from the mindless little monster part of the dog. These two are so different that I actually had a hard time getting my pup to bite on the toy so I could click for it during our first session, because seeing the clicker in my hand puts her in "thinking dog" mode. This morning I used a different toy, and was able to elicit the chomping behavior by letting her sit in my lap and loving her up. Mixing up this play time with the clicker was new for her, and I could see the little wheels turning in her head and smoke was coming out of her ears at the notion that thinking and playing could happen at the same time :grin2:I wish I could tell you this will surely work, but we're just experimenting. If you're new to clicker training, it really, really helps to work with a good trainer to learn how to arrange your training setup to get clickable behaviors. good luck!


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Genevieve's mom said:


> I appreciate all the suggestions. We do reward her with treats for sitting, down, come, wait, stay, etc. I can't believe she doesn't weigh 70 pounds by now:wink2:with all the treats she gets during training. I too have noticed that right after she goes "crazy" she goes to sleep. Kind of reminds me of a little kid who is fussy and doesn't want to take a nap (even though I have never had kids myself). The one thing that has worked the best is to leave her completely alone - leave the room or leave the area. When I say "she bites", I mean she breaks the skin and draws blood - more than what I would consider "mouthy". She is just so good with so many other issues - the Dremel isn't a problem, having her nails clipped is fine with her, sounds pretty much don't bother her, she is very social and likes every person and every dog she meets. I'm sure we will work things out as she grows up and we are better able to communicate with her in a way she can understand. My husband has even trained her to sit and wait for her meals. It only took him a week or so to get her to do this. She is very food oriented so treats are a big part of each day. I do wonder if she is more of a "field" Golden. We got her in Washington, from Soundview Farms in Hansville. They have "show" Goldens but I have to admit I never really asked the question about her line. I was more concerned about the OFA clearances and health issues. We'll keep working at it. They are a great breed!!! And she's cute as a button.


Yes, Brady broke skin and ripped our clothes to shreds. He was terrible. As I look back, I do not think when I told his trainers how had he was that they believed me. Some golden puppies and full litters are worse then others. He was from a very well known show breeder. She also had a rule that she would not sell to first time puppy owners and families with children under 4.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

This is a good article to ready. Others may have said already, but your puppy is 100% normal for a Golden puppy her age.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...y-up-1-year/380986-its-puppy-not-problem.html

Try physically putting a toy in her mouth when she starts to bite, and encourage her to play with it, praise and make it fun when she does.


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## oceanlady (Mar 29, 2017)

Robbie is same age just turned 4 months. He bites my husband more than me because he doesn't catch the signs as fast and will keep playing when he is too bitey. I am very careful around him and when he starts biting I give him a bully stick, started ordering natural ones from Amazon. We bought these blue rubber balls with holes in them and I stick the bully through the middle where it has a smaller hole and will stick. He then will get the biting out of his system and will bite for a long time on it.

Before I got those I had your problem too and also listened and got playpen and when he gets too riled up and bites will put him in there with a bone or bully stick.

We have forced ourselves to do daily training and for the past few weeks have been working daily on heel and not going nuts on walks. He is getting better. The training keeps them from getting bored.

All is not perfect, I have days where I am not feeling good or hubby and other person not home so he doesn't get much that day but life happens. Next day we do longer walks and say sorry buddy!!!


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## 1wdmcdonn1 (Jul 18, 2014)

My pup was also really bad with biting and chewing on everything in sight including my hands which were constantly bruised and bloody. When such approaches as a tug on the cheek with a firm "No" produced no improvement, after he ruined a nice rug, I had had enough. From then on, every time I caught him in the act, I sprayed Bitter Apple directly in his mouth while saying a firm "No". This worked very quickly. It got to the point that the mere sight of the bottle, and then later a comment that "I'm going to get the stuff" caused him to run in the opposite direction. Nasty, nasty taste, but the dog unharmed and more attentive to guidance.

All along I had been giving him age appropriate chew toys and I took him though basic and intermediate obedience training. He is now approaching 3 years old and is reasonably well trained.


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## Genevieve's mom (Mar 27, 2017)

I never heard of spraying bitter apple directly into a dog's mouth. Are you sure it's safe for the puppy? Our little girl (now nearly 20 weeks old) is doing less biting of me. She is now getting her permanent teeth and I wonder if that helps.


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## LdyTlfrd (Jan 11, 2017)

We had the same problem with Luna when she had her milk teeth. Oh we were all bloodied & bruised by her. I never thought of spraying Bitter Apple directly into her mouth. I only used it on things she tried to chew/bite. 

Luna is now 1 yr 2 mos and her biting has almost completely stopped. She will show her teeth when she isn't happy but we usually tell her to be "gentle" and she stops. 

My son used to hold her "flub" (cheeky flaps/lip) against her teeth as she wouldn't bite herself to make her stop biting him.


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