# Declining entry counts



## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Alaska has always had a hard time with counts. But now we are getting very hard to keep a couple of our shows going. Here's a show next month and the counts they have had over the last few years. Pretty dramatic falling numbers:

2016: 331 Dogs, 342 Entries, 71 Breeds.
2015: 335 Dogs, 354 Entries, 73 Breeds.
2014: 327 Dogs, 352 Entries, 69 Breeds.
2013: 387 Dogs, 406 Entries, 74 Breeds.
2012: 413 Dogs, 437 Entries, 84 Breeds.


I think in the next year or so we will see a show or two close completely and possibly some kennel clubs also. One our Anchorage shows has dropped almost 50% in 10 years. 


Because of our small entries, it does take very few dogs to have a 5 point major. Only need 4 dogs for a 3 point major and 7 bitches for 3 points. 8 dogs for a 5 point major and 10 bitches for 5 points. Our specialty later this month will be 5 point majors because we pull a lot of out of state dogs in. Without those out of state dogs, we would have a hard time.

Will we see the end of conformation showing in Alaska in the next 10 years? Possibly. Unless some major changes happen very quickly!


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

So you're saying if I want to start showing Teal and get some points, I should come to Alaska? 
Is it difficult to find judges for these events as well? I know they travel often but Alaska seems like a long trip.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

We are considered the last place owner handlers can show their own dog and win. Pros here do ring side hand offs and do not show for a living because there are so few shows. Getting judges to come up isn't too bad. We do reimburse them for their troubles. We pay air, hotel and food. We also give them I think $300/day. It's definitely not a money maker for the judges. 


The flight from Portland OR to Anchorage is about 4 hours. Bring the dog on Alaska Airlines and it only costs $100 each way. Come in July, run hunt tests and conformation events and agility trials. Wrap up an obedience title too!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

It does seem like entries are declining so many places, and it makes me sad. I understand it though. Owning a dog training center, we get lots of calls from people saying they own purebred Australian Labradoodles or purebred Maltipoos. I think there is real attack on purebred dogs by some elements of shelter rescue( which I understand though do not agree with) , radical PETA types, and then "designer? breeders charging 3500 a puppy for dogs "better than purebred. There isn't an understanding of a dog's happiness and usefulness and good fit for a particular owner being tied to outstanding structure/ fixed predictable traits in the general public. 


Owner handlers have been kicking tail feathers and excelling in the Northeast USA this year in goldens. I see a huge change for the owner handler.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Good to know owner-handlers are doing well in the NE! Your boy's sister is doing very well up here and finished HIT a couple of weeks ago. John has her in utility now! He's a go getter. Too bad we don't have enough entries for OTCH points in Alaska. Obedience is another area that is down with entries. The only increase in entries is agility. For awhile our hunt test numbers were way up. But now they are sagging again. Clubs are the mainstay of conformation, obedience, etc. Clubs need to be better at positive PR in the media. Without clubs we wouldn't be able to have any of our events. With all the cross over of breeds to compete in events they couldn't before, some clubs are seeing increases in numbers. The spaniel hunt test numbers are way up now that retrievers can compete in their hunt tests. But the pointers asked to run retriever hunt tests, and we never see them entered. That was disappointing. But losing obedience numbers is definitely a problem.


I do think that people believe they can go to the pound and do anything with their dog. And you might be able to have that one in a million dog. But a purpose bred dog can't be replaced by a dog from the pound in so many ways. 


The late night PETA and HSUS commercials are having their effects now on the general population. People believe what they see in those commercials that are quite often fabricated baloney.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

It would be nice to visit Alaska. I know at least one breeder from our local club does bring her dogs up in July, I think it's for the specialty. If Teal passes all of her clearances next year we'll switch to full registration and I'll try to get involved with conformation. Speaking as a total newbie to the dog world, conformation is very intimidating. It seems very political and I certainly don't have the money to send her out to campaign with a handler. At least with professional field training we'll still have a lovely dog to hunt with if she never wins anything. So it'll just be for fun to learn about her structure, meet people involved with the breed, etc. But it would be nice and encouraging to have a shot at some kind of win as an owner handler. I think a lot of people just can't understand the point of competing with their dog. When I tell someone that training with my dogs and possibly breeding are my hobbies I usually hear "oh that's a good money maker." :doh: Maybe it would be if I didn't care at all but I've already spent thousands and will spend even more with my dogs just learning and hoping to prove she's healthy and worthy of being bred. And I know that's nothing compared to what it takes to earn a CH.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Alaska7
I do think that people believe they can go to the pound and do anything with their dog. And you might be able to have that one in a million dog. But a purpose bred dog can't be replaced by a dog from the pound in so many ways.
The late night PETA and HSUS commercials are having their effects now on the general population. People believe what they see in those commercials that are quite often fabricated baloney.[/QUOTE said:


> I agree with this completely, and the rise of easier venues is a big problem like Cookie Rally and Everyone_gets-a-trophy Conformation venues. People gravitate to easier venues in which a less well trained or less well structured dog still gets a blue ribbon and gets immediate gratification.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Owner handlers have been tearing it up in my part of the country right now in golden . When you have good teaching and present a nice dog well turned out as an owner -handler, you have a good chance right now . It is a long learning curve in AKC conformation but the journey IS the goal, if you know what I mean. So much learning, so many highs and lows. . . these things add up to both becoming wise and streetwise. It takes time, plenty of time and effort, but it is worth it.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

ArchersMom,
We have 4 show clusters in the summer in Alaska. 
Memorial Day weekend starts off our season in Fairbanks. That's 3 days of conformation, obedience and rally. Fairbanks is fun but a 7 hour drive from Anchorage depending on weather and road work. 
Next up is the late June cluster that includes our club specialty here in Anchorage. It's 2 all breed shows and the golden specialty, along with obedience and rally. Onofrio is the superintendent. Visit Jack Onofrio Dog Shows, LLC | Welcome to see our counts. You'll see that our shows are very small, but we don't need very many dogs/bitches to have 5 point majors. You will see usually one or two top 5 golden retrievers in this show.
Then we have the Kenai shows in mid-July. That is 3 days of conformation, obedience, rally, and AGILITY! Kind of a fun mixture. Kenai is very small. There are usually few if any dogs from the state's. Kenai is about 3.5 hours south of Anchorage and is a beautiful drive.
Last summer shows are a 3 day cluster in Palmer, which is 1 hour north of Anchorage, at the end of July. It is conformation, obedience and rally. We call this the pro handler show. Lots of dogs from the states come up for this show. I do not like competing in this show due to the competition. You will also see 1 or 2 of the top 5 goldens at this show. The judges for this show are almost always former pro handlers and I call this a political show, which is why I don't like doing this show. 2 years ago Freedom was here, he was the number 1 golden at the time.

If I was looking for a show that is at a good time for fishing and having fun in Alaska, I would pick the Kenai shows. It is close to excellent fishing and recreational opportunities. And there is usually a hunt test within a week or so of this show in the same area. Plus it has agility. Also you don't have all the big dogs from the states coming up for this show.

If I was interested in hiking opportunities and mountain biking, I would do the June cluster in Anchorage. But I wouldn't bring a special to that show. This year Willis, the number 1 golden, of course won the show. Sydney was also in the show, so the two of them wrapped it up.

If you have any more questions about showing or visiting in Alaska, PM me. I spayed my bitch last fall, so I don't show anymore, but I do compete in all the other venues except agility.

Yes showing can be political. It also can be fun. I enjoyed a mix with Lucy at shows - conformation, obedience and rally. Now with the new puppy, he won't be a show dog, but he will do everything else. 

Consider going to GRCA national this year down in CA. I've gone the last 3 years and have really enjoyed going.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Thanks, Stacey. I'll have to look into the GRCA National. I just started going to the PRGRCO meetings and I'm soaking up so much information about upcoming events.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

A lot of us on the forum go to GRCA national. The hard part about this year is the separation of the 2 locations by 2.5 hours. Plus they overlapped the field trials with obedience, rally, and agility, but at the 2 different locations so far apart. Of course they didn't overlap the conformation shows with anything else. So you will have to choose between attending the field trials, or obedience/rally/agility. There are no hunt tests at national this year. Let me know if you are going. I bet it's a bit of a drive for you from Scappoose. I'll be flying into Sacramento and driving up from there to Corning for the field trials.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

You know what.... let's be absolutely honest.  

1. Breed/Show quality
2. Registration (Limited vs Full)
2.5 - AKC's changes concerning eligibility of unpapered dogs 
3. Dog Clubs
4. Dog TRAINING Clubs
5. Culture

^^^ The above are a bunch of things that weigh in how likely a new dog owner is to at some point enter an event with their dogs. 

1-2. Golden Retrievers are in the top ten as far registered dogs in the AKC. This means that the owners of golden retrievers are more likely than not to register their dogs after purchasing them as puppies. But there are major gaps between some goldens and others when it comes to show/breed quality. That is a fact. In some states where you are less likely to have people going out of their way to purchase a show bred golden retriever, that gap is going to be greater than other states where a show bred golden may be a bit more common. Keep in mind though that majority of pet owners do not own dogs who could be shown even while they are show bred. That's based on registration, but it's also based on health, based on grooming habits of the owners, based on temperament, etc... 

Bottom line though - the breed probably could do better if more breeders bred for show in addition to everything else... and if they were more selective and helpful to the puppy owners. Which at this point is pretty impossible when you consider so many people purchasing dogs from out of state. They keep in touch on FB, but that's not the same type of influence that a nearby breeder may have. <= For example, my first obedience dog - my breeder helped me with a lot of stuff from grooming to just her coming and sitting outside the ring and rooting for us in the ring. Same thing with conformation, I had all the breeders involved stepping up and helping me (and gosh knows, I needed a lot of help) with handling and grooming tips. 

Might add, there's somebody I know and have a ton of respect for as a very new owner handler who I believe is going to be a breeder as well (but that's down the road as her female is a puppy right now and she focusing on her two boys that she's showing herself). She and her husband are awesome. And they got their start by purchasing a puppy from a breeder who is relatively local and who has done a ton to help them get started. They also live in an area where they have access to support and help from pro handlers who show goldens. This person started out as a very nervous owner handler the same time I did... but she's going places. You can see it. And it's helpful that she and her husband have the time and means to travel and put all in to the sport of conformation with their dogs. And they are stepping up and probably replacing the 1-2 other people I can think of who just in the past couple years have pulled back and are semi-retiring.

Problem with registration is part of a conversation I had with somebody who is up in Canada, actually. She was the breeder for a dog who I really liked. This dog had a similar look and temperament to my Jacks - but also was bred for both show and obedience. And this was an obedience dog. I spoke with the breeder and was sad to basically get the gist that the breeder was very hostile to the idea of selling a puppy with full registration or even with the "open consideration" of switching registration down the road. This breeder absolutely required neutering by a certain time with registration withheld until proof of neutering. Which that in of itself was a huge "no-no" for me, because even if you don't show a dog - neutering has some harmful effects on a growing dog, particularly one who has a future in obedience or agility. And I'd expect to compete with a young dog before age 2 - getting out there in rally and BN, to start. But you will have a lot of people in obedience who do not neuter male dogs at all or if they do, it's only as needed (if the dog's temperament is very bad in various ways - which is the fault of the breeder with our breed which should be outgoing, friendly, kind, confident, eager to please, and sound...).

3. Dog clubs are not doing as well as they did before. It's expensive to keep putting on shows when you do not have members and volunteers to support. And even worse when the volunteers become nasty and there's infighting and all kinds of bad stuff - which affects the quality and popularity of the shows they put on. People are affected by angry and nasty stewards or other volunteers who make a show unpleasant to attend as a spectator OR as an entrant. 

And people entering the sports they create a good chunk of the bad stuff as well - between their demands for certain judges to their demands for perfect or pristine show sites, which can sometimes be unreasonable. 

I'll give you an example - more and more obedience people are quick to crab about being placed too close to conformation rings or too close to agility or too close to big crowds or such.... <= And I'm totally in that group sometimes, if only on the basis that sometimes it's difficult to hear the judge when you have loud ruckus going on outside the ring. Very few handlers and dogs do well at very noisy and "messy" shows. So entries are poor despite it being very expensive for a Dog Club to include obedience and space for obedience in a show. 

Personally speaking, I think obedience would be aided by more outside shows in my area. It would be cheaper than renting halls. And the fact of being outside means that any crowd or environment noise would not be a problem. Because you are not dealing with acoustics to the same level. 

A lot of people, however, get freaked out about training their dogs to walk on uneven ground and not sniff or PEE in the ring because there's grass out there. Or there's bugs biting their legs while they sit outside the ring for 10 hours or whatever. These are the kinds of complaints that some people make - despite the fact that years ago we had very popular and successful shows that were held outside. 

5. Culture is the last thing and it's so common to bump into people who have a very PC perspective on dog ownership - it's the whole "guilt" factor about purchasing a puppy and fear of being judged for doing "pageant stuff" with their dogs. 

The difference between a dog show and a pageant, for example is the purpose and the history behind the dog show. Pageants with people are the ultimate stupidity, quite honestly. You can't compare to a dog show where the expectation is to select dogs best for breeding based on breed quality, structure, and soundness. That is what it should be about. And even if you aren't interested in breeding - participating in a show that has that purpose is an impressive experience. 

But a lot of people have been "trained" to think that dog shows is a bunch of stuff between a waste of money to animal abuse. 

Obedience training for competition suffers because you even have dog trainers TEACHING classes who are telling people that the dogs don't enjoy obedience.... and it continues to suffer as people introduce all kinds of training methods which might be helpful as far as motivation, but they also layer on the degrees and levels of stuff that needs to be weaned off before you compete with your dog.

Even showing in rally, for example, is a problem for a lot of people who feel that even for the most stuffiest and firm of us - it encourages bad habits in the ring for the owner and the dog. It's a nightmare for somebody who is used to helping out in a competition level training class and helping spot various stuff that you tell the people in the class that they are doing and SHOULDN'T be doing on the basis of it costing points in the obedience ring. In rally - many of the same stuff is allowed, and can be rampant for many of the people who go out there and get the highest scores out there. 

Other thing is dog training clubs and competition focused training facilities are cheaper and more efficient at "Raising a handler" from scratch. And once you get that bug, you are more likely to return to doing obedience with the next dog and the next dog.... 

A good example is I attended a class last week and got to touch base and really gab through class with a really lovely lady who only did obedience after accomplishing everything in agility with her rescue dog way back when my Jacks was young.  This lady was just dabbling in obedience to help give her dog a happy thing. And her dog had confidence stuff going on. As far as I know, she's a leg away from CDX with this dog. Might not be impressive to people who expect to get CDX' early and often with their very young dogs, but it was really impressive considering where they started and the temperament of this dog. They started out as maybe the worst students in class... and really worked hard. With her puppy now - it was fun to see that she's now one of the best students in the classes. She has a good dog and the training was spot on from early, but also her own confidence was fun to see. This is how you grow a new recruit iin obedience.  And you do not get this out of Petsmart, Petco, Puppy Classes at the Vet taught by the Vet Tech, etc.... 

Years ago - I was directed by our vet to train with my instructor way back who had a private competition focused group. That's where I got started in training. 

Today, the same vet recommends people bring their puppies to obedience class taught there at the vet by their vet tech who has a training degree. They recommend the dog training club as well, but do remind people that they don't have to drive out of their way when they can play with their dogs right there at the vet...  I had no words when I overheard this. LOL. 

Anyway.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Megora said:


> You know what.... let's be absolutely honest.
> 
> 1. Breed/Show quality
> 2. Registration (Limited vs Full)
> ...


1. I didn't know what a show dog was before I owned one. I had owned 4 goldens before I had a show golden. I didn't know the difference! I still am a terrible judge of conformation.
2. Limited registration is killing dog shows. It's also killing relationships between breeders and buyers. It makes for an us and them culture in the dog show world. I know I'll get some flack for saying this, but it's true. You see it over and over again: Pet People is the phrase. What a slam to Pet People. Like somehow you are less worthy.
3. Dog clubs are also a bit of a problem it seems. Politics and all that. Let's face it sometimes dog people can be a special kind of crazy. I'm no longer on any dog club boards. I'll help do whatever, but don't put me in a room making decisions on a board for a dog club!
4. Dog training clubs. Petco has had an impact on classes. I have a friend that teaches at the local obedience club and at Petco. It's kind of funny. She figures that hey she needs to make money and Petco pays her. When she teaches at the club, she doesn't get paid. So she does both. I have to give her credit. At least she is a legitimate person teaching. And if she can put an Open title on a St Bernard, she is definitely someone you want teaching at Petco. But I do realize that most people teaching at Petco really don't know what they are doing.
5. Culture. This is the hard part. Facebook somehow makes it better and makes it worse. Dog people are more active on Facebook than anywhere else. Kind of funny isn't it? So I use Facebook to educate my friends and family not in the dog sports world. I try to make everything I do with my dogs sound fun. I try to encourage people to get out there and try new things. It's up to us to make a difference. AKC won't do it. The local clubs don't have the access to people like we do. So educate and make a difference!


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Alaska7133 said:


> A lot of us on the forum go to GRCA national. The hard part about this year is the separation of the 2 locations by 2.5 hours. Plus they overlapped the field trials with obedience, rally, and agility, but at the 2 different locations so far apart. Of course they didn't overlap the conformation shows with anything else. So you will have to choose between attending the field trials, or obedience/rally/agility. There are no hunt tests at national this year. Let me know if you are going. I bet it's a bit of a drive for you from Scappoose. I'll be flying into Sacramento and driving up from there to Corning for the field trials.


Looks like I won't be able to attend this year. It's only about a 5 hour drive from my parents place but I'm due September 25th so I won't be doing any traveling in early October. It's too bad because that would actually be a very convenient location for me. Would have been nice to meet more people in person!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Two more I thought about while walking around VG's (grocery store here)....

6. Economy

7. Facts of life/Retirement/laws


 

Economy has had a huge impact on excess income that people have to travel longer distances (gas prices, hotel fees, lack of dog friendly hotels, basically need for a truck and a RV if you are bringing more than 2 dogs to a show). I only do local shows (within 2.5 hours drive) because I can't really afford major trips that require me taking a week between going there and back again. Only people who could afford that are people who are retired, supported by an understanding spouse, or have money to burn basically. Or who do this for a living (ie handlers). 

And with the economy taking a dump 12-16 years ago, fewer people can just spend a lot of money on their hobbies. And that is even the wealthier people out there who take vacations to go golfing at stupidly expensive places! They are cutting back on what they spend their time and money on.

The facts of life and so on - it involves the fact that most of us can only work one dog at a time in obedience. Actually a lot of us tried multiple dogs and nearly DIED from the workload and happily stick to only working on one dog at a time. It may take 3-4 years for a do to become really ready to compete. And then you compete for the next 5 or 6 years, if you are lucky. And a lot of people just focus on quick titles and then they get to start working on the next puppy. Which takes time and sometimes means these people are not at trials in any way during any years between retirement of the older dog and training of the young dog.

Add the factor of some people being tied into breeding contracts with their dogs - it may take longer. <= somebody I really miss training with is a prime example of the above. Her OTCH dog is retired and she was finishing up the polishing stuff with her younger dog + has the setback of breeding a litter of puppies per the contract with her breeder. Her dog is basically missing 3-6 months of training during this time because of various stuff involved. 

Speaking personally, I'm not entering any conformation shows for the next month probably - maybe two while sorting out a muscle tweak my little guy suffered either from jumping in obedience or more likely something that happened while hiking. He has a lot of pain tolerance so it's possible this is not a "fresh" injury that just happened. He's not even limping which makes it more complicated for me. Give me a dog that goes three-legged when he's hurting even a little so I know he's sound when he looks sound!  

Not saying this is a big deal because I'm small fry and only bringing one dog to shows, but there was a supposed to be big benched show this past month and I was stunned to see how low the entries were. I would have at least been one more dog to get the show a smidge closer to at least having 2 points. I don't remember the actual numbers, but this show when not benched is a major. With it being benched - a lot of people apparently stayed away + more didn't enter because they knew it wouldn't be a major. 

The facts of life thingy - if I had my way, I'd probably have a younger dog right now who would be showing while I'm thoroughly resting Bertie. But having 4 dogs around the house kinda breaks my brain at the moment. Having 2 goldens in the car with me when running errands kinda breaks my brain. LOL. <= I'm still recovering from the fact that after I came out of VG's to drive home with my groceries, I discovered that Jacks randomly had started shredding my favorite blue hoodie while I was in the store. I'll probably wear it still until I find a replacement I like (probably not until fall clothes come out), but it will look like I got attacked by a pack of wild dogs with the holes in the sleeves. Bertie's an angel, but sure bet the next pup will probably take more after Jacks with my luck... >.<


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

ArchersMom said:


> Looks like I won't be able to attend this year. It's only about a 5 hour drive from my parents place but I'm due September 25th so I won't be doing any traveling in early October. It's too bad because that would actually be a very convenient location for me. Would have been nice to meet more people in person!


Congratulations!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

The first thing I saw when I approached the obedience rings this week was a lady snap at another woman sitting on a bench with a boston terrier wanting to watch obedience to see if it looked doable. I cringed at how mean it was and the stewards made faces and rolled their eyes. She wasn't an OTCH competitor either- just a Novice B person like me without too much cause to be either rude or stressed. 

For entries to stay up in the AKC, people have to be nicer to new exhibitors even if stressed/ tired, new people have to be trained enough behind the scenes to experience some success when they arrive at the show/ trial and not find themselves failing or flailing , and breeders/ dog trainers etc have to encourage with the both the carrot and the stick for puppy buyers to compete in AKC with their nice dogs. 

There is a lot of losing in AKC goldens, even with the nicest possible dogs. I think culture outside dog shows itself is more focused on immediate gratification than it used to be, and by contrast showing goldens is just really hard, bc there are so so many nice ones that it is a marathon and not a sprint sometimes to get to each win. There is just no way to hurry up and win, and there are leaps of faith needed.

It is a grueling road compared to grabbing your dog and playing some frisbee in the park, lol. WHY walk down the road used to be more self-evident bc the AKC had some authority and even glamour in popular culture. 


I love conformation, specifically developing and developing some more an eye for correct structure/movement/type over hours and weeks and years- to me the show is like exam week for if you are on the right track choosing, training, and breeding golden to the standard. 

I just don't think many people out there in the USA are interested in that level of intensity anymore.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Couple thoughts on that, Jill.... 

1. There was a spectator walking through the obedience section. It's somewhat awkward for these people to take in the action.... part of why I wish that as a rule we could have a row of seats near the ring for people to watch - which would NOT be taken by the squatters competing. I don't think there are a ton of spectators who stop to watch obedience, but the ones that do - they seem to feel like they are intruding and are unsure of how to behave around the ring. 

I set up near the ring, stuffing my crate in a last remaining spot (thank goodness next to somebody nice) and sat down for about a minute to glance back towards the crating sections where all the obedience people were crammed in together like sardines. Many of them came early to set up and grab the best spots possible. And they were sectioned off with every dog mostly hidden away in their covered crate. <= Very different from conformation where people are used to weaving through the grooming aisles to visit the dogs and talk to the handlers/owners. 

I actually think it's not so bad that way because some obedience dogs can be kinda terrible when crated. There's crate guarding and dogs that will growl and snarl at people who get too close to their crates.... not specific breeds. Just in general. 

But I think people who want to see the dogs - should have a designated spot to sit - even if it's limited seating. And right near the ring where they can see everything, vs having a wall of people standing in front of them.

This might not work for every location - I know of one where there's hardly any room for regular crating and seating for exhibitors. Forget about spectators. But I was a show today and there's others out there where you could definitely put a row of spectator seats up which are reserved for people wanting to stop and watch for a few minutes. 

2. This one person today was a very nice lady who came up on impulse to visit after I left the obedience ring. And she literally pulled herself up short in the middle of praising our run and pulled her hands back with a "oh, I know I'm not supposed to touch/visit" comment. <= I did a double-take at her and emphatically told her that I really want people to feel free to visit and that the best part of any dog show or trial is my dog getting people to come and TOUCH him. He loves people. His happiest part of the day is people fussing over him. He's a big lap dog about stuff like that. 

As a rule - people shouldn't visit a trainer/dog from obedience when they are warming up... but after they come out of the ring. Heck yeah. That's the fun part. 

I'm saying all this from my perspective... having very social dogs in general. And being a friendly kind of person.

A lot of people though in obedience - are very cliquey, reserved, and sometimes can be offputting with their attitudes. Some breeds - you can expect that. I swear some people take on the same behavioral traits as their dogs or chosen breeds! But golden retrievers are joyful lap dogs - not just about people, but other dogs as well.

3. I shared this thought elsewhere, but there was a very new exhibitor showing her dog in obedience (Preferred) and she made a lot of handler errors which cost points. I think she ended up with a score in the 170's - which is very low, particularly since her dog was not that terrible technically speaking. There was lagging, but nothing hugely as costly as the handler putting her hands together in front while calling her to front. You know as a big rule you do not do anything that makes the judge think about whether you are guiding your dog. It could cost you. <= I tend to think that people make these really huge errors because they have not taken enough competition level obedience classes geared towards the regular classes. I haven't looked this dog up, but I was guessing that they've done rally because that kind of guidance does happen a lot in rally and it can very difficult for a handler to wean off those habits. A lot of people get lower scores than they'd like in regular obedience because of those habits + nobody really drilling them to get rid of those habits. 

Speaking personally - my worst habits are things I'm unconscious that I do. Noticeably lowering my head when my dogs come in to front. Crooking my shoulder and almost turning my upper body back towards my dog. Newest one as I've been fixing the crooked upper body issue - it's sticking my elbow out like a coffee cup handle! <= All these things get spotted by my instructors or fellow trainers in classes before I show.

A lot of people who train alone or train with people who do not know the rules for regular obedience (or believe in them, apparently) - they don't have anyone spotting what they do and correcting them before they start showing. 

**** Other thought as well is that otherwise there sometimes can be an unfair perception that obedience people are unfriendly and stuck on themselves. There's plenty of those out there, but when you train at a club (or two) - it gets to a point where you know everyone and they know you. My experience was very different from the average newbie at a trial. There's a lot of warmth in the sport when people know you and your dog. And you don't have to really be in the serious cliques to feel that. I know a lot of people because I train with them at a couple different locations. Which means that on my way out of the trial building this afternoon - there were a lot of familiar faces to stop and chat a little with. A lot of people I was really happy to see at the show too...


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

I'm a newbie to competitive dog sports & had no clue about the opportunities available. I'm enjoying learning & showing (obedience, rally, field) my girl who is really up for anything. It was a wake up call transitioning from basic obedience and rally run throughs to a class geared for competitive obedience--having the detailed assessment of your performance, understanding the basis for deductions. I have the benefit of a couple of training clubs within and hour of the house. I've also been fortunate to attend several trials where the more experienced competitors and ring stewards have been supportive from teaching me to tear notches in my number so it doesn't slip off the rubber band to helping calm the panic attack about not understanding a rally sign--the simple things leave a favorable/lasting impression. I also have an extremely supportive breeder who drove 5+ hours this past weekend so we could all enter a show together. I will say with all of the areas available to play in, it's challenging to set priorities so the limited time we have available to practice is appropriately utilized & as a newbie, I want to do it all & do it now and for the life of me can't understand why the rest of the golden world doesn't want to do the same.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

In any venue, we could all be a lot nicer to everyone at the event. We could all be more welcoming to new and old. We could all help out a little more with the event. It doesn't matter if it's a hunt test, conformation show, or a rally trial. All of us could be a little nicer. I know I'm guilty of not always being on my best behavior.


P.S. Jill I saw Oakley last weekend. She did well at our mock hunt test. It was really neat to hear about her passes in the utility ring before she even turned 2 years old. John has worked really hard with her! I'll be judging her in a couple of hunt tests this summer. She's a really nice dog!


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Off topic but Stacey, I'll see you in California!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Hi Vivian,
I plan on going. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that nothing comes up in the mean time! Are you bringing both your girls?


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Yes, both girls are coming. I have a room booked in Redding for now.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I'm at the Super 8 in Corning. Are you putting Maise in the derby? How about running Molly as test dog for the derby?


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Umm, it would take Molly thirty minutes to return from those marks  

But yes, all signs are pointing towards the derby. We're just going to have to crash train. I assume you are running Riot? We are staying at La Quinta for the reward points


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Yup it will be Riot this year. Lucy is staying home. Lucy was test dog for the derby last year. I wish there was a puppy stakes this year. But it doesn't look like there will be. It will be a fun derby! I plan on shooting for the Am or the Q the day before if they will have me. I love shooting for the big dogs. You should come and help out over at the Am or the Q. We have a great time. When I get done shooting, I marshal the rest of the day. So many beautiful goldens the GRCA field trials. I encourage anyone attending national to come to the field trials and watch some amazing athletes.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Do you already know the field trial schedule?? I couldn't find any info at all


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I agree with everything you say for first world to last. 




Megora said:


> Couple thoughts on that, Jill....
> 
> But I think people who want to see the dogs - should have a designated spot to sit - even if it's limited seating. And right near the ring where they can see everything, vs having a wall of people standing in front of them.
> 
> ...


I agree with this too. I know almost everybody there, and went with friends so it was easy and fun. Because of this thread i paid more attention to how the Novice A people fared and what they experienced in their days.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Vivian, the field trial schedule is on Entry Express Event Management Systems

Megora, when I go to shows or obedience trials and people ask me to pet my dog, I just say of course, she just came for the people! I mean why the heck else did the darn dog come to a show, trial, test, etc.? They came to make people happy! I don't care how much time I've spent grooming before I show my dog, please pet my dog! It makes her happy and her attitude is so much better before she goes in the ring. Heck I don't even care if someone doesn't ask, just be nice to my dog, and she will love you forever. Now my young boy, he might jump on you if you pay attention to him!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

@stacey - I agree re/conformation. Meeting people and letting them pet anytime before, during, after - it shouldn't matter. I always laugh because while I spend at least an hour grooming... it's just washing and drying a good coat. There's nothing done to the coat that would be drastically undone by somebody touching my dog's head or scratching his ears. 

Obedience - can be touchy for some people and it is understandable for some. If a dog is very excitable and/or the owner is trying to get the dog acclimated and "zoned in" before going into the ring - it's reasonable for them to keep their dogs crated and covered... if not outside in their trucks. 

On Sat - I sat and watched Beginner Novice - during which the recall had a "trap" - as far as the ring entrance being a few feet to the side of where the owner stood to call their dog. The stewards had active duty as far as keeping the dogs in the ring and actually one dog got out and was loose for a brief bit outside the ring. 

This was because many were very green dogs and probably being shown too soon. But something that probably didn't help was the fact that the owners were all hanging out together with their dogs visiting with each other and being petted by spectators, right outside the ring and right up to them going into the ring. The dogs had zero focus as a result... <= Might probably add that personally speaking, if I'm showing in obedience, I want zero contact between dogs the whole time to encourage zero focus on other dogs. 

After showing in obedience and/or if you have an experienced dog and hours before showing - visiting with _people _is just fine.


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