# Copper is going to an orthospedic specialist



## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

He is doing much better with massage, heating pad, Glycoflex III and Duralactin but I chose those things based on what made me feel better (massage and heating pad) when I injure myself (pretty often:doh and recommendations from the forum for the supplements.

My regular vet has been no help with Copper's gait and hip issues so I want him to see a specialist to make sure I am doing all I can to help him. Although his gait and movement has improved drastically, he still has trouble getting up (especially on a tile floor).

I will post everything I learn in hopes others can learn too. He has spondylosis, but the X-rays that revealed that were taken for other reasons (critical) and we were busy concentrating on other health issues at that time so he has not had X-rays or an evaluation specifically for this problem.

Of course, since it is a new problem I have to have a referral again. I am hoping to have an appointment next wednesday.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Sending good thoughts for Copper's appt. Keep us posted on what they have to say.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Thanks for the good thoughts. This is a "make sure I'm doing everything I can" appointment and not critical so I am not worried.

He is doing much better and going on hikes so I am happy for that. I just want to make sure I am not missing anything that would improve his quality of life. I've gotten good advice about exercies (from you too!), but I am afraid to do most of them without knowing what is really going on with him.

The office manager at my vet's is not in until later today and she has to do the referral. I'll try again this afternoon.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

We will keep good thoughts and paws crossed that the ortho vet can do something for Copper.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Keep paws and fingers crossed here that all goes well!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

hope all goes well! Looking forward to hearing what the specialist has to say.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Yeah - those orthospedic guys are much faster than the regular orthopedic ones.:doh:

No appointment yet since I haven't been able to get in touch with the office manager at my vet's. I'll take his massager and supplements so the ortho vet knows what we are doing. His oncologist there mentioned his stiffness last November. Hopefully she will remember and give a better description if needed.

If he is as good as he is going to get that is fine. I just want to make sure we can't do better.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

From the human world, but it also applies to our dogs.
Grief we get over.
Guilt takes forever, if ever.
When we lose a loved one, we feel grief but time heals the hurt. But if we feel guilty that we didn't do right by them, or didn't do all we could, we never really get over it.
I'm rambling. I'm in Indy for the dog show, been a long day.
and no, we did not win.


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## jlc's mom (Dec 21, 2007)

I hope you find that your doing everything right. Copper is lucky to have found you!!!!


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> From the human world, but it also applies to our dogs.
> Grief we get over.
> Guilt takes forever, if ever.
> When we lose a loved one, we feel grief but time heals the hurt. But if we feel guilty that we didn't do right by them, or didn't do all we could, we never really get over it.
> ...


Hotel4dogs, maybe you are rambling, but you definitely know where I am coming from based on your quote. You said Toby doesn't have arthritis and I have forgotten what is causing his problems with his hind end. Let me know and I'll quiz the doc as much as I can.
I'm sorry you didn't win. I hope had a good time at least.

Hi Jessi Mom - He and I are lucky we found each other. Can you believe I turned him down the first time the shelter called me? It took two calls and a threat of euthanasia to make me take him. :doh:


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

If Copper's having troubles on tile floor, you might purchase some rubber-backed throw rugs to place around on the tiles. Target, Lowe's and Home Depot have them pretty cheap. You won't win any decorating awards, but your old guy will be much happier if he doesn't have to struggle as much


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

good thought Copper's way; he has such a sweet, happy face--he knows he's well-loved.

He may just be feeling the good weather more so than usual--maybe that's all it is. Here's hoping you get a good report. Hugs to him.


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## jlc's mom (Dec 21, 2007)

Hi Jessi Mom - He and I are lucky we found each other. Can you believe I turned him down the first time the shelter called me? It took two calls and a threat of euthanasia to make me take him. :doh:[/QUOTE]

Hey, I think they knew that you would take him and that it would be a perfect match.


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## goldencontriever3 (Nov 7, 2008)

Hoping Copper has a good visit. Please keep us posted. Give him a big hug from us.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I hope you have a good visit and learn some new stuff that you will later impart on us. We took our first golden to an ortho consult when he was almost 13 and learned he had neurological issues (and we thought it was just his hips).


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## desilu (Nov 2, 2006)

I think those orthospedic vets have quick appointments! I think that's a wise choice, taking Copper to a specialist. One of the things that eases our minds is knowing we do everything we can for our beloved pets.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Sending good thoughts Cooper's way. He knows he is well-loved and well-cared for.

When our Angel Polly got this way (almost 25 years ago) it was so painful to watch her struggle to get up. DH had a shoe-shine furry that had a handle on each end. We used that under her tummy to help lift her hind end.

When she wanted to get up she would to roll onto her tummy from laying on her side, stick a paw out and look at us. We'd grab the shoe shiner, she'd start thumping her tail and we'd get her up. It was almost as though she was saying "That is good help, I'm glad you thought of it".

I feel guilty because I didn't do more to ease her pain. I read such wonderful things here and have to remind myself that 25 years ago there wasn't the meds or research that there is now. She lived until she was 14 1/2.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

No referral yet since they haven't had time to do the paperwork.......

Luckily Copper is a small golden (65lbs) so I can pick him up put him on/off the couch and such. He tends to just hang in the air when I am trying to set him down on the floor. I think he might have my number.....

I am a little anxious that it might be something more than I think it is, but I really want to know if there is more I can do. He really is doing much, much better with his current supplements and massage so at least that is good.

I am also hoping I can learn more and maybe someone else on here can too.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I have the referral, but I was out of work Monday and Tuesday due to a huge, awful cold so I will have to schedule him for week after next.

Since this is not a critical visit I can schedule it for my day off and we can go to all the petsmarts in the big town after his visit. Much fun or Copper since he gets to shop, eat treats and most importantly - get petted!

I have been not been diligent about his massage for the last few days and his gait reflected that. I gave him a nice long massage this morning and will again tonight. It really, really makes a difference.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Teresa:

I was wondering if you have a camcorder or a flip cam if you could possibly video your massage sessions so we can see what techniques you are using? You could post it on You Tube and we could learn a lot. Obviously what you are doing is working for Copper!! 

I'm sorry you have a bad cold. I hope you are feeling better soon.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I took some video with my camera. I have to hold it with my left hand so I can't show exactly what I am doing. It would give you an idea though.

I cannot upload it from home since I have dial-up and even pictures are almost impossible. I'll have to see if I can do it from work. I don't know if they have youtube blocked, but I'll try if it will help any of you guys.

I massaged Copper pretty thoroughly yesterday and this morning and he is walking better so that is an important part of his therapy.

I am also hoping to get tips from the orthopedic specialist and I will share those too.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

coppers-mom said:


> I took some video with my camera. I have to hold it with my left hand so I can't show exactly what I am doing. It would give you an idea though.
> 
> I cannot upload it from home since I have dial-up and even pictures are almost impossible. I'll have to see if I can do it from work. I don't know if they have youtube blocked, but I'll try if it will help any of you guys.
> 
> ...


Thanks for trying! I forgot that you can't film yourself and hold a camera at the same time. :uhoh: I hope you can upload it. I'm also happy Copper is doing so much better after his massage. He is a lucky lucky boy!


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## Goldenz2 (Mar 14, 2008)

Hi Coppers Mom and everyone :wavey:
I haven't been active on this forum in a while, but I do lurk alot and read threads like this one that interest me. 

My Archie is 11 yrs and 7 mos old. He has been taking Glucosamine since about age 5 when he would limp after excersize. He has never limped again but now that he is getting up there in age it's obvious that I need to do something more for him. 

I see a difference when he lays down, his back legs are in a weird position and he is always laying on his tail which I have to pull out from under him. He has alot of problems getting up once he is laying down and besides having Hip Displasia, he also appears to have Arthritis in his lower back. (he has not been X-rayed, only palpitated by our Vet) 

He can walk fine it's just the getting up part. He also has a younger "brother" who he loves to play with but the hopping around he does is really not good for him LOL

After reading your post and some others, I have started giving him some different Supplements. On Feb 1st I started *500mgs of Ester C*, he handled that well so I started the *Glycoflex III*. Lastly I started the *Duralactin* and he seems much more comfortable now!!! :thanks: It really helps that people post about what does and doesn't help their dogs. He will always have Hip Dysplasia and still has issues with getting up from a down position but he is obviously much more comfortable. Yesterday I took him and his much younger brother Halo to a field to play and it was much more activity that he is used to and today he is none worse for the wear! He is actually playing with Halo right next to me as I type!

I was not comfortable with giving him Ascriptin daily as my Vet suggested, and I don't want to start him on NSAID's just yet if I can help it so I am thrilled!

Here is a photo of the boys playing yesterday. Archie is the red boy.


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## Meggie'sMom (Dec 24, 2007)

Hey Teresa - Just saw this. Our poor old creaky babies. Do pass on what you learn. I would be interested too. Meggie gets pretty stiff and I have noticed if I take the time to just rub her hips and back when she gets up that it seems to help her a lot. I bought a book on massage and we use their techniques, but mostly it's common sense to me. Hope Copper is getting around much better with all that massaging.


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

Goldenz2- Thank you for posting the results you have seen, we all appreciate the feedback. Hooray for Archie!

Tucker is 12yrs 8 months today. He has been on the Nupro joint support (Glucosamine, MSM, Ester C) for about a month now. I have not seen much of a difference although I have read it takes time for these Glucosamine supplements to work. He has no problems with his hips and can get up off the floor just fine, but a old shoulder injury has come back to haunt him. He appears more stiff legged and is slower on walks. Given his age, he isn't bouncing back from it the way he used to. My vet told me to give a low dose aspirin once a day for a week instead of just when needed (to help tamper down the inflammation to give it a chance to heal). He has not had a noticeable limp while on it, but I get what you mean about the aspirin, i'm not thrilled to give it to him either. From all I have researched on this Duralactin stuff, I have ordered it and am eager to try it out.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

*oh my*

Ok, so I did a google search on "personal massager" to buy something to use on Toby, and you can only imagine what came up! 
To make it worse, now all the ads on my page feature, well, you know :doh:.
So I can see this is something I'm going to have to actually buy in a store, not order online. 
Sorry Teresa, I didn't see your question about Toby from over a week ago, what's wrong with him is a badly calcified disk in his spine right where the spinal column meets the pelvic bone. It puts pressure on his spinal cord and causes him pain (?) and weakness.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> Ok, so I did a google search on "personal massager" to buy something to use on Toby, and you can only imagine what came up!
> To make it worse, now all the ads on my page feature, well, you know :doh:.


 Whoo hoo! I found some of those same ads when I was searching for one to "show" you. Anybody who finds those searches attached to me thinks I have a much more interesting life that I do.


GoldenZ2 - Hooray for Archie. He is such a good looking fellow. I am thrilled that he is feeling better. Copper gets in some really odd looking position now too. I think it is the spondylosis, but I shall soon know more and will let you know.

GoldenCamper - I hope Tucker responds well to the Duralactin and massage and his shoulder gets better. he is absolutely adorable.

Meggie's Mom - give her a hug and kiss for me. I'm putting a lot of hope in this specialist being really good and giving me a lot of information.

Copper is having a really good day today. It is beautiful and 60°. I am still feeling really poorly and have been unable to make myself do anything today. I am going to try to make myself go at least a little way up the mountain and let him play in the woods. Finally some good weather and I am under the weather.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

oh no, I'm sorry you're still not feeling well! I think you get so busy caring for everyone else you don't take care of yourself.
Hope you feel better FAST!


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

We finally made it to upstate specialists today. Good news on some fronts and some worrisome news on others. I guess that is par for the course with an older fellow who has had a tough year.

Ortho - arthritis in his hips, knees and shoulders. An ACL tear on his left hind leg that is hopefully healing.:crossfing They said the glycoflex III and duralactin were good supplements for that, but since he is still having trouble getting up to add 25 mgs of Rimadyl and we will do a blood test in 3 weeks to make sure his liver is handling it well. I can add fish oil and just need to start it slow and give his body time to adjust. I need to continue the massage and heating pad since that is helping with his stiffness and the ACL. I knew he had a problem with that leg and my SA regular vet said no. He will have a new regular vet. They keep getting things wrong.

His liver values have not been all that bad. I was wondering since I thought my regular vet was still remembering the bogus blood test from >1 year ago that led to Copper's splenectomy. His ALP was 308 in November, but they think that was due to him having a steroid shot that month. His ALT has been good all along.

They think he has a heart arrythmia. We did not do any further testing at this time since they aspirated 12 (!) lumps and one had suspicious results so they biopsied and sent it out to a lab. The really scary part is that his lymph nodes in his neck are enlarged. They biopsied and sent a sample out as well. I hope and pray it is due to the infected boil on his head, b ut will not do anything else until those results come back.

He is looking for me and can't come upstairs so I have to go down there now. We need each other.:


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## maggie1951 (Apr 20, 2007)

Meggie'sMom said:


> Hey Teresa - Just saw this. Our poor old creaky babies. Do pass on what you learn. I would be interested too. Meggie gets pretty stiff and I have noticed if I take the time to just rub her hips and back when she gets up that it seems to help her a lot. I bought a book on massage and we use their techniques, but mostly it's common sense to me. Hope Copper is getting around much better with all that massaging.


 
My to don't no how i missed it poor boy.
Charlie can't get up on a tiled floor i have to put rugs in the kitchen for her and thats why i have carpet everywhere.
I have had Charlie on extra supliments as well her back legs are so straight she can't bend them very well and we now think she is a good 8 years old not 6 but who cares i love my Charlie the clown 
Fingers crossed for the results for Copper.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I'll be praying for good test results. Give him a big hug.


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

I hope and pray the results come back OK on the biopsy, what a day you had. I started Tucker on the fish oil 10 days ago and do believe it has helped, today was a good day for him. I hope Copper tolerates the fish oil OK, and the Rimadyl too. He is a handsome boy.
Give Copper a big hug for us!​


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Copper*

Teresa:

Praying so very hard that Copper's results are just fine-you and Copper have helped Smooch and I SO MUCH!! Ken and I have been using the heating pad on her everydy and I've done "a little," of my own finger massage on her right hind leg.

I wonder if it's possible for any of the Golden Oldie Mom's that have written in this post if your dogs could have something similar to what our vet said Smooch has, where she took muscles in her leg.
I will attach here.


Thank you so much for all of this information, Rob, and for taking the time to write this and share this. When we visited one of our vets at Arborteum View Animal Hospital, in Downers Grove, IL ,yesterday, he said that Smooch should come back on Tues. morning, March 2, at 9:45 to see the surgeon that did her TPLO, Dr. Silbernagel and Ken is taking Smooch to see him.
Ken said when they did the TPLO they checked the miniscus and had to do some reshaping of it and put it back in-the surgery was March 17 or 19, 2009.
On the xrays they took on Feb. 2nd, they didn't see any tear but she will most likely be re-xrayed on Tuesday, March 1st. Yesterday, for the first time, I heard a clicking sound when she walked. Smooch is using her leg but limping and once in a great while she holds her paw off the ground for a moment, but for the most part her paw is on the ground, not completely like the left side.

I am glad to hear that if they have to repair the miniscus it isn't as huge a recovery time, or hopefully doesn't cost as much as the TPLO did. 

Will keep you posted and will look at your website-Thank You So Much!! 

HERE IS WHAT ROB, WONDERFUL VET FROM COLORADO POSTED ABOUT WHAT HE THINKS OF DIAGNOSIS WE GOT ON SMOOCH:
03-08-2010, 07:24 PM 
rvonau 
New Member Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 2 

That's great that Smooch is getting better and it isn't a meniscal tear. Nice that she won't need surgery again. Sounds like the surgeon had to remove part of the meniscus at the first surgery so that does make it unlikely that it would get injured again.

Sounds like your doctor is thinking it is an iliopsoas muscle injury. Physical therapy like you are doing and rest are the treatments to help it heal. 

Iliopsoas muscle injuries are a relatively new injury that we are realizing in dogs. The muscle runs along the lumbar vertebrae (spine) and attaches on the inside of the top of the femur on a piece of the bone called the lesser trochanter. Not really understood how dogs injure it but I would equate it to a groin pull that athletes get. Can be pretty painful when it occurs. Most dogs will show pain when the hind leg is internally rotated (knee is turned inwards towards the body) and the leg is pulled straight back. That position stretches the muscle and if torn, most dogs will show pain. With muscle tears, they will heal on their own but may take weeks to fully recover (6-8 weeks). The key is a slow, gradual return to activity.

This is much better news than a problem with her TPLO which is great. Sounds like the rehab is going well so hopefully she will be back to normal in a few more weeks. I'm sure the decreased activity is tough on Smooch but it will all be worth it when she is back to normal. 

Best wishes for your speedy recovery Smooch.

Rob


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

my heart sank as I read about all the biopsies, and the lymph nodes. But my vet told me not too long ago that swollen lymph nodes in the neck are caused a bunch of different things, so I hope that it is, in fact, from the infection. 
Poor Copper. Give him a big hug for me. Thoughts and prayers going out to you and Copper.


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Healing thoughts going out to Copper for the ACL tear, and fingers crossed for good biopsy results. You may want to give him milk thistle while he's on the Rimadyl; it's good support for his liver. Give the old boy a big smooch from me, please.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Copper is sacked out on the couch after his morning massage and heating pad treatment. He does get too hot with the heating pad so I put it on for 5 minutes, take it off until he cools off and then repeat. He is a bit of a high maintenance fellow.

I keep telling everyone I can to massage their dogs and use the heating pad. I believe supplements are a personal choice, but the Duralactin and Glycoflex have really made a difference too.l

The ortho vet was also his surgeon for the splenectomy last year.: What a wonderful man! Magic hands as far as I am concerned. He did a very thorough exam yesterday (in fact - Copper was checked out by 4 vets) and was pleased to "only" find the arthritis and ACL tear. He said he would have recommended surgery for the ACL initially, but thinks it is healing well enough now to continue current treatments only.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

coppers-mom said:


> Copper is sacked out on the couch after his morning massage and heating pad treatment. He does get too hot with the heating pad so I put it on for 5 minutes, take it off until he cools off and then repeat. He is a bit of a high maintenance fellow.
> 
> I keep telling everyone I can to massage their dogs and use the heating pad. I believe supplements are a personal choice, but the Duralactin and Glycoflex have really made a difference too.l
> 
> The ortho vet was also his surgeon for the splenectomy last year.: What a wonderful man! Magic hands as far as I am concerned. He did a very thorough exam yesterday (in fact - Copper was checked out by 4 vets) and was pleased to "only" find the arthritis and ACL tear. He said he would have recommended surgery for the ACL initially, but thinks it is healing well enough now to continue current treatments only.


I read your post in another section about Copper's lymph nodes, then I read about the ACL tears and my heart was racing--ooooh noooo. I had to leave for several hours and the first thing I did when I got back was check for your posts to see what is going on with Copper. I am so sorry you have to worry about possible lump/bump and lymph problems and I hope and pray you get good news on ALL of them. I'm also sorry to hear about the ACL tear--wow! Poor Copper...he sure is a trooper though, even if high maintenance. I have one of those high maintenance guys myself--and you know what? I *love* it because it means we have more bonding time together, one on one Mom and Barkley time. :smooch:

I was curious why only 25 mg rimadyl? Barkley is on 50 mgs twice daily for a total of 100. I always thought they based the dosage on the dog's weight (he's 54 now post splenectomy --should be about 59).

Anyway, I'm glad to hear so many good experiences with the Durlactin--I'm going to ask Barkley's oncologist if we can add this in at this point in time since we aren't able to walk him as far these days. 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Copper. I'm also glad you had a good visit with the specialist and I hope you find a good competent regular vet too. I'm blessed in that department and I really do appreciate them.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I am worried about the biopsies, but the ACL tear is doing quite well. I am angry that I was told for 6 months that nothing was wrong with that leg, but it seems to be doing remarkably well.

I am starting him on a half dose of rimadyl (he is about 65 lbs and would normally get 50 mgs 2X daily) so his body can adjust and we can verify how his liver is handling it in 3 weeks. If his blood tests come back good then, I can increase if needed.

Deramaxx may have contributed to his last bout of pancreatitis so that is another reason to start him off slowly. His body does not seem to accept new things well unless we go very slowly.

These high maintenance boys are great.:


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Teresa, a comment on the rimadly, my Toby is 80 pounds and he gets 75 mg once a day.
My vet feels it's better to give a bigger dose once a day than a smaller dose twice. Something to do with the anti-inflammatory properties lasting at least 24 hours, so it's better to hit it hard once a day. Or something like that. 
I can see his point, because when we take Toby off the rimadyl it does take several days to a week or more to see the pain and/or stiffness come back, so it must take a while for the inflammation to build back up???


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

We get as many answers as we have vets it seems. He was willing to go as high as 60mgs twice a day since Copper had gained some weight. I don't have a clue!

He did say that maybe Copper just needed a little to to take the edge off. I'm hoping the 25mg 2X daily is enough and he doesn't have to have a higher dose.

I have not started him on fish oil. I want to let his body adjust and see how he does with Rimadyl added to the mix so I will add fish oil in a week for 1.5 weeks.

It's all so confusing.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I hope Copper does better very soon. I know we worry about out old gold. 

I put Teddi on salmon oil when she was diagnosed with bad elbows. The vet said NSAID's but since she was two I did not want to do that yet. So I tried salmon oil (not capsules I used the oil) I got Timberwolf organic. I decided it would not hurt to put all my dogs on it. OMG Maxine my senior at the time came to life! She had not been exhibiting any 'issues' but she behaved like a much younger dog. No additional meds, just salmon oil added. We also started Belle and Teddi on adequan injections at the same time. They are expensive but good for dogs with joint issues. Anyway, because of the price we didn't start Maxine at the same time. We thought we were going to, but when we saw the results we got with just the salmon oil, we decided we may not be able to control her if we got her feeling too much better. I STRONGLY suggest doing the salmon/fish oil. You may have better results with the NSAID too at a lesser dose. Good luck!

Ann


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Maxs Mom said:


> I put Teddi on salmon oil when she was diagnosed with bad elbows. The vet said NSAID's but since she was two I did not want to do that yet. So I tried salmon oil (not capsules I used the oil) I got Timberwolf organic. I decided it would not hurt to put all my dogs on it. OMG Maxine my senior at the time came to life! She had not been exhibiting any 'issues' but she behaved like a much younger dog. No additional meds, just salmon oil added. We also started Belle and Teddi on adequan injections at the same time. They are expensive but good for dogs with joint issues. Anyway, because of the price we didn't start Maxine at the same time. We thought we were going to, but when we saw the results we got with just the salmon oil, we decided we may not be able to control her _if we got her feeling too much better_. I STRONGLY suggest doing the salmon/fish oil. You may have better results with the NSAID too at a lesser dose. Good luck!
> 
> Ann


Thanks for the info. I got the fish oil capsules. If they don't help, I will get the salmon oil.

Old gold sure can get to feeling good and try things they shouldn't. A case of "I feel good so I can..." jump on the couch, go up the stairs, leap small buildings in a single bound. It makes my heart sing for him to feel so good and then cringe when he tries something he shouldn't.

I meant to ask about adequain, but forgot.:doh: I'll ask about that at the next visit. Maybe he will be doing well enough to not need anything more.:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing:crossfing


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Well, the low dose of Rimadyl is making a huge difference. Copper is running and jumping and feeling great. Now I just have to be careful he doesn't overdo it and hurt his ACL leg. It sure is great to see him feeling so good.

I think he is getting by with such a low dose of Rimadyl because he is taking the duralactin too. It alone got him to 80% better.:

Now we jsut have to get good biospy results:crossfing and then a good liver test in 2.5 weeks. 

His coat is beautiful and he hadn't gotten any more infections since I started washing him with chlorhexadine shampoo, so all-in-all quite good for an older guy.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

I'm just seeing this. :doh:

Glad to hear that he's feeling better. And fingers crossed for those good results, as well!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm glad to hear Copper is feeling well! The rimadyl makes a HUGE difference for Toby Dog, too. Poor guy is off of it for 3 weeks pending the next liver blood draw, and we can really see the difference.
Fingers crossed for GREAT biopsy results....


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Teresa*

Teresa

So Glad to hear that Copper is feeling better.
Did you read Rob, the vet in Colorado's post, in my Smooch topic?
I wonder if Copper could have torn muscles too?



rvonau said:


> That's great that Smooch is getting better and it isn't a meniscal tear. Nice that she won't need surgery again. Sounds like the surgeon had to remove part of the meniscus at the first surgery so that does make it unlikely that it would get injured again.
> 
> Sounds like your doctor is thinking it is an iliopsoas muscle injury. Physical therapy like you are doing and rest are the treatments to help it heal.
> 
> ...


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

When do the biopsy results come in? I'm crossing my fingers for you both!

I'm glad the low dose rimadyl is working too! That's fabulous news. 

We did adequin injections with our first golden Beau. He didn't see much of an improvement. The orthopedic vet we saw told us some do, some don't and I guess Beau was one who didn't. The injection also stung him going in and since I was doing the injecting I was always hesitant to give it to him. We never started Barkley on it. Does Copper have any blood sugar issues? If so adequin causes blood sugars to rise and it could be a problem for him. Hopefully that isn't the case.

We swear by the Omega 3 fish oils (300 mgs for every 10 pounds). Take DHA and EPA and add for the Omega 3 amount in a capsule. Caution--make sure whatever oil you use (salmon or otherwise) is tested for purity. There are some recent threads on that in the nutrition section.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Benign!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

His lymph nodes were just reactive and the lump on his chest is just some unknown mass left over from his huge unfection last november.

He is having some GI tract (major mucous in his poo) so they told me to give him pepcid AC. I sure hope it is not from any of his supplements or the Rimadyl since he is doing so well on his current regimen.

I am going to add fish oil to his "diet", but want to wait until he settles down with all the current stuff. that way, I'll know (well - maybe) what the culprit is if he has anythng new come up.

I was hoping to have more information to post for other people, but I guess I have nothing new.

I'll reitrate what is working for him:
Massage (manual and heating pad), Duralactin, Glycoflex III and 25 mgs of Rimadyl twice a day.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

coppers-mom said:


> Benign!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> His lymph nodes were just reactive and the lump on his chest is just some unknown mass left over from his huge unfection last november.
> 
> ...


We are doing a happy dance here in Dallas! Fabulous news for you both! So happy!

Start the fish oils slowly because too much can cause GI distress and soft poops. We don't want Copper having those issues!


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Thanks for the warning about the fish oil. he does react poorly to any change in diet or supplements.


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

That is wonderful! I am so happy for you!


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

YEAH!!!!

Glad to hear. Hope Copper keeps improving. 

Ann


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Well, the improvement was short lived.

We are going back for another ortho consult next Wednesday. I don't know if there is anything else I can do.

I'll print all the suggestions for supplements to take with me. copper is up to 50 mgs of rimadyl 2X daily and still having a lot of problems. he walks like frankenstein. It could be worse, but it is pretty bad.

He is currently taking glycoflex III, fish oil, duralactin and rimadyl for his arthritis. it just isn't enough.

At least he is still happy and enjoying life more than not. I have to be grateful for the good things, but I want to try one more time to improve his quality of life.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Have you considered acupuncture for pain management? I am NO expert, I have heard great results with dogs with HD people are managing. When Belle hurt her back I considered it but it was not necessary. 

Most vets won't recommend unless they are up to date on "holistic" methods. We have a vet trained in holistic medicine at our clinic so it has been brought up when talking about managing Teddi's issues. Fortunately we are not there yet. 

Only because I just had a back issue with a dog... have you checked to be sure it is not neurological? Belle's issue, while it was an acute situation, caused her to have difficulties getting up and down. Hers was strictly neurological. She too was dx with spondylosis but not her "problem". 

I hope you find relief for Copper. It is so hard when you just want to help them. 

Ann


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

He had a physical workup and multiple x-rays in February by the orthopedist. They take him out of the exam room so I don't know just what they do to see where the problems are.

he also has a huge lipoma in his right shoulder. It has been there for years but might be causing him problems now. I will have that checked again. He also has a partial ACL tear in his left rear leg. that was misdiagnosed by his regular vet for 6 - 8 months. the ortho specialist said he thought it was not bad enough to have surgery in February and there are also concerns about that causing him to put too much strain on his shoulders.

I am hoping for a magic bullet. I need to at least make sure I've tried everything.

I'll have to see if there is an acupuncturist in my area. I'd try it at least. Not too much to lose here.


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

Sorry Copper is not doing well again. I know exactly what you mean by the Frankenstein walk  Tucker's ortho vet recommended Cosequin instead of Glycoflex, something about the 5:4 ratio of Glucosamine and Chondroitin. I have yet to try it on Tucker, waiting until his gastro issues are resolved to my liking.

I would give acupuncture a try, you have done pretty much everything else. It worked well for Tucker and he is not on any supplements or meds except for the thyroid med soloxine. We went for a 1/2 mile walk yesterday and he could have done more. Tucker has a holistic vet that is certified in acupuncture. He also used one of those cold lasers to stimulate the needles, he seems to think cold laser therapy by itself doesn't do that much. He showed me a massage technique to use at home that involves running the thumb and index finger along the spine to help with the flow of Chi or something like that, I forget what he called it but it works, I will try and find the name of that technique for you.. It's worth a shot!

Another supplement you could try is DLPA, I did a Google search for you.

http://www.google.com/search?q=dlpa...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Good luck on Wednesday!


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Thanks for the info Steve. It's time to order copper's supplements so I will check into the cosequin.

I'll also check out DLPA and be happy to learn a new massage technique for him.

I take it Tucker has a bit of Frankenstein walk too? These old guys sure are treasures, but a little heartbreaking to watch them age.


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

Yes, he still has a bit of a mini-me Frankenstien walk at times, compared to what it was months ago though, much better! I did a search for that massage technique but no luck, I will ask the vet about the name of it next time I talk with him.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

coppers-mom said:


> Thanks for the info Steve. It's time to order copper's supplements so I will check into the cosequin.


Check out Healthypets.com for Cosequin DS. I find it to be the best price and they ship REALLY fast. All my dogs are on it, my horse, and I am on the human version. I like Cosequin. 

They also carry a supplement called Dausquin might need a vets rx or you have to get it from a vet. I have heard it is supposed to be better than Cosequin, but most vets say it is new and the jury is still out. The latest greatest for joints is supposed to be ASU and Dausquin has it. It is more expensive. I plan as needed to up Teddi to that later. 

Ann


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## maggie1951 (Apr 20, 2007)

Sorry to hear Coppers not doing so well its so hard to know what to give them Charlie is on lots of suppliments and she has a very strange walk she trots ok but her walk is bad it looks like she has 2 stiff back legs.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Sending healing energy for dear Copper!


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## goldencontriever3 (Nov 7, 2008)

Sorry Copper is not feeling well. Hope you can find something that will give him some relief. He is such a sweet looking boy! We will keep the both of you in our prayers.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Shoot, I just read this and I'm sorry Copper is ailing. 

I've had great results with acupuncture on my dogs. If you have one close by they sometimes use a laser therapy to help in certain areas and to assist in healing. 

Have you thought about adding Tramadol if he is in pain? 

I hope the partial tear and lipoma aren't the cause of his Frankenstin walking. If you have to do a surgical procedure for either of these you can also do a stem cell therapy transplant at the same time (Vet Stem) but it is $$$$$$$$ and then some. 

We use Cosequin DS chewables. We tried Dausuquin (over the counter--not rx required) but saw no improvements. Barkley's acupuncture vet said if we didn't see results in a few weeks it wasn't going to help. It was a lot more expensive so we didn't reorder when the bottle was finished. We ordered it through Amazon.com.


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## jealous1 (Dec 7, 2007)

Teresa - so sorry to hear about Copper and hope you figure out something that will give him some relief. Our vet put Rott'n on metacam a few weeks back for his arthritis but last week he kept throwing up so we are discontinuing for a week then trying again with tagament. It is so hard watching our babies grow old.


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Fingers crossed that you find the magic bullet for Copper. I know several dogs for whom acupuncture was the magic bullet, so you might want to see if there's a certified vet acupuncturist nearby. The one I used for Finn was $70 a session, so it can get pricey. Give the old boy a big smooch from me, please.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I've tried Tramadol and it makes him so dopey I'm afraid he will fall down and hurt himself more. Maybe we can get a lower dose and try again.

I haven't checked into an acupuncturist yet. I'll ask his specialists on Wednesday.

I don't think he can have shoulder surgery since he uses his shoulders to get up now. If we can get his hips working better maybe that would be an option.

thanks for the advice and encouragement. I guess I'll have to see what they tell me on Wednesday.

He seems to be walking better today. Maybe it was the fresh fish he got Wednesday. I don't really think so, but he likes them so much I'm going to go catch him some more tomorrow. He's just a tad spoiled and catered to.:


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## puddinhd58 (Jan 15, 2009)

coopers mom,
I sure hope he feels better. I am sorry for the pain he and YOU are in due to the arthritis....


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

I am hoping something positive came from Copper's visit to the specialist today. :crossfing


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Thanks for the support and good wishes everyone.
The lipoma in his shoulder does not seem to be the culprit. The ortho vet says his arthritis has just progressed to the point it is affecting his front end more too.

I increased his rimadyl dose from 25 to 50mg twice a day a couple of weeks ago and I think I see some improvement. He is to stay on that dose and see what happens. He could take up to 60mgs twice a day based on his weight. The vet said he should not take tramadol since it makes him dopey and he didn't think he would do well on whatever the other options were (I forget).

The only supplement this vet was comfortable recommending was Sam-E. I know that has been recommended on here so we will try that. He did say to expect it to take 2 -3 months to see improvement and that it only works for some dogs. He did say that some dogs show as much improvement on that as rimadyl so I shall keep my fingers crossed.

As usual Copper loved going to the vet and of course we went to PetSmart afterwards. He got a couple of chewy granolas and they were gone before we got home an hour later.

He was happy and almost bouncey last night so I am glad for that.


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## goldencontriever3 (Nov 7, 2008)

Glad to hear Copper seems to be feeling better. Give him a big hug from us!


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

"Happy and almost bouncey" is a good thing. Did you ask about acupuncture?


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

His ortho vet said that he is a "western thinking" vet and he was not comfortable recommending anything other than Sam-E, but he wouldn't say it wouldn't work either. I'll have to check around and see what I can find out.


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## jealous1 (Dec 7, 2007)

Teresa - so glad to hear Copper is doing better and that he had a good trip out. As you know, Rott'n is on metacam right now for his arthritis and when I was looking up the Sam-E you mentioned, noticed it was for liver function.  Is this something I should be looking into for him? Should I get blood work done first?


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

I understand the "western thinking" thing. Tucker's vet was doing it for 27 years before he got frustrated about not being able to do more for the animals in his care, so 10yrs ago (now a vet for 37 yrs) he learned about the holistic side of things and got certified in acupuncture. He does not push his current "philosophy" on his clients.

Even though over the years I have heard of people speaking of success with acupuncture and their dogs, I was in the "western thinking" mode myself and tried various supplements, then the orthopedic specialist that recommended NSAID's. I knew the risk and was willing to take it. Metacam did nothing, but Deramaxx did for a whole 2 days before bad things happened. Now I have been cooking for him daily for the past month and a half trying to get his system back to normal, he still needs to gain back 7lbs he lost and I remain hopeful that he will.

So it was like what else can I do, oh yeah, the acupuncture thing. :doh:

It was a bit odd having acupuncture done on Tucker for the first time with all the needles sticking out of him. That and talk about the flow of energy and meridians and other things I did not get or understand before. I kept an open mind thinking that if such techniques have been proven successful for thousands of years, there must be something to it.

So in Tucker's case it has worked. He is not on any supplements or drugs although I will re-introduce Cosequin and fish oil again if his system can take it. He can go on a half mile walk a day with no problems, but I am stopping that for now because he lost the one lb he gained back. :doh:

My boy turns 13 on Monday and there will be more kiddie pool and fishing fun! Give Copper a hug and a fish for me.


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

I found a couple IVAS certified acupuncturist vets that I think are near you.

http://www.sodvm.com/aboutus.htm (Aiken,SC)

http://www.holisticvetsc.com/acupuncture.html (Travelers rest,SC)

Hope that helps...


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I am glad the acupuncture is helping. I am a "traditionalist" at heart but when Teddi was diagnosed with HD at 9 months old. I did NOT want NSAID's so I started looking for other options. Unfortunately.. she needed surgery but post op she is doing well....

When her elbows went again, NSAID's. She was two. I am hoping for a long life here folks... So we discussed options. They do have a certified acupuncture vet at our clinic. My vet said at this time it would not help Teddi as it was early, not a "lot" of pain, so we went another direction. That is definitely on my plate as an option if our current plan stops working. I play to stay off the NSAID's as long as possible. I don't mind the "occasional" I just do not want to do any long term. 

I have heard it is very good for managing pain. I hope Copper agrees. 

Ann


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

My aunt and uncle had great results doing acupuncture on their bouviers about 15 years ago. Then the vet moved to a different province and the dogs declined in health and eventually passed away a few months later. Nothing changed in their routine/habits except no more acupuncture.

Crazily enough, I had heard this story for years and years then one day my horse's vet was talking to me about acupuncture since the equine chiropractor/masseuse was out and she had been recommending acupuncture for my horse. So the vet and I started talking and I mentioned that my aunt and uncle had done it on their bouviers blah blah blah and the vet looked startled, then asked hesitantly if the people were "L---- and H---- P-----". He was the vet that had done the acupuncture so many years ago! What a weird coincidence.


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