# Gentle Leader for Puppy?



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Get a Gentle Leader (not a Halti) or an Ez Walk Harness. The GL can be custom fit. You'll probably want a med. GL or a S/M harness.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

I really like the Ez Walk Harness, I think a Medium would fit. I have had a medium for my puppy, 10 months 45 pounds, since she was about 3 months. I also have a Gentle Leader for her size Medium. I do not like the Halti's either.


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

do you find the Harness to work as well? He isn't absolutely horrible on the leash, but when he is bad he is bad. Now that it is cold and the ground is icy I don't have much grip and my back and arm ends up hurting by the end of the walk.
Would the harness be as effective or should I just not even bother?


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## KRayl (Aug 22, 2008)

MyCodyBoy said:


> What size should I get?
> 
> Cody pulls so bad that walks are just not something I look forward to these days. he is 35lbs (yes I know he is huge!) Would he fit the 25-65lbs one now? My Mom gave me a Halti but it is way too big (size 3) and I can't see myself waiting it out till he grows into it.


We have used the Easy Walk harness with Avery for about 2mos now and it works really, really well. It makes it really difficult for them to pull so they learn (quickly) not to. She's 5mos old and weighs 33lbs and has just outgrown a s/m so we're moving up to the next size. Hope this works out well for you and Cody.


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## marieb (Mar 24, 2008)

MyCodyBoy said:


> do you find the Harness to work as well? He isn't absolutely horrible on the leash, but when he is bad he is bad. Now that it is cold and the ground is icy I don't have much grip and my back and arm ends up hurting by the end of the walk.
> Would the harness be as effective or should I just not even bother?


I love the EZ walk harness and it works great for Maddie. I tried the Gentle Leader but she hated it and wouldn't stop rubbing her face on the ground. She had an EZ walk when she was a younger puppy and she outgrew it, I ended up buying a new one a few months ago because she pulls way too much without it.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

I really like the harnesses and I do think they work just as well to prevent or stop pulling. But unlike the Gentle Leaders you do not have control over the head, which in a crowd, can be nice. The Gentle Leaders are a lot smaller too, so stuffing them in your pocket while not in use is easy. But dogs seem to adapt to the harnesses easier, like mentioned above no rubbing their face on the ground or your legs!


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

thank you! I like the idea of the harness much better.

So not just any harness will do? I have one from our previous dog that I did try to use but Cody still pulled.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

MyCodyBoy said:


> thank you! I like the idea of the harness much better.
> 
> So not just any harness will do? I have one from our previous dog that I did try to use but Cody still pulled.


No. It needs to be a front clip harness. If the leash clips at the back, it will encourage pulling.


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## wagondog (Aug 24, 2007)

MyCodyBoy said:


> thank you! I like the idea of the harness much better.
> 
> So not just any harness will do? I have one from our previous dog that I did try to use but Cody still pulled.


Don't use the Halti, if your dog lunges for something very serious neck damage can occurr.
Jerry


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> No. It needs to be a front clip harness. If the leash clips at the back, it will encourage pulling.


Funny! I will try the Harness first then. Thanx so much!


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Yes, the EZ Walk Harness (Made by the same people who make the Gentle Leader) clips in the front and puts pressure on the chest. There are ther brands as well, they all clip in the front.

Here is a link


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## AcesWild (Nov 29, 2008)

Careful with gentle leaders they can lead to neck injury and they don't really fix the problem just cover it up, as soon as the gentle leader is off the pulling behavior continues.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

AcesWild said:


> Careful with gentle leaders they can lead to neck injury and they don't really fix the problem just cover it up, as soon as the gentle leader is off the pulling behavior continues.


That can be said about ANY tool that discourages any behavior. The tool alone isn't going to train the animal - the human at the other end of the leash has to do their part and train for the behavior they'd like to see: polite walking. As for the neck injury, it has to be an EXTREME situation or a dog with a compromised neck/spine.


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

I ordered a Harness and will start with that.
We used Haltis with our dogs growing up and they never had any problems because of it. If the harness doesn't work I will move to the head one.
My intention is to try and control him a little with the harness so I can attempt to train him at the same time. he just gets a little crazy during walks and his focus is completley lost. I think the harness will help.


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## AcesWild (Nov 29, 2008)

Cross post from another forum, just something to think about

http://www.prodoggroomingsupplies.com/dog-forums/showthread.php?p=667478#postid667478


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

AcesWild said:


> Cross post from another forum, just something to think about
> 
> http://www.prodoggroomingsupplies.com/dog-forums/showthread.php?p=667478#postid667478


There's an awful lot of, "I've heard that head collars can cause damage..." in that discussion. Not one of the posts links to an actual cited case of head collar-related injury. That's my overall beef with that argument... 

I've heard lots of things... including that the moon is made of cheese! Doesn't make it true! 

Yes, I'm sure it's possible to injure a dog on a head collar. It's possible to injure a dog on ANY collar. When used improperly, ANY training tool can cause damage. 

I just think we need to be careful about stating opinions as facts. The two are very different.


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> There's an awful lot of, "I've heard that head collars can cause damage..." in that discussion. Not one of the posts links to an actual cited case of head collar-related injury. That's my overall beef with that argument...
> 
> I've heard lots of things... including that the moon is made of cheese! Doesn't make it true!
> 
> ...


I have to agree. Even our vet told us that he uses the gentle leader head coller, and I trust his judgment completley.


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## AcesWild (Nov 29, 2008)

Watching these head collars and seeing how they control the head and the movements that happen when the dog pulls or is pulled, it's not a stretch to worry about affects that it has.

But it interested me so here are some links I found.

http://www.kooldawgtees.com/gentleleaderFAQ.html
http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001b/collars.htm
http://www.dogproblems.com/public/238.cfm?sd=2
http://www3.sympatico.ca/tsuro/_articles/gentle_leader.html
http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/463699-post16.html
http://flyingdogpress.com/headhalters.html


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

AcesWild said:


> Watching these head collars and seeing how they control the head and the movements that happen when the dog pulls or is pulled, it's not a stretch to worry about affects that it has.
> 
> But it interested me so here are some links I found.
> 
> ...


Again... lots of peoples' anti-head collar OPINIONS. I'd give the anti-head collar people far more "props" if they could direct me to a documented cases of head collar injury. 

Yes, they are hard for some dogs to get used to.

Yes, they have a flattening affect on some dogs' personalities.

Yes, if used incorrectly, they can case damage.

Still not sure how that makes them any different than any other training tool? If one doesn't like them and choosed not to train with them, that's fine... but I find it odd that peope keep using the "they cause neck damage" argument when I can't find actual cases of damaged necks to back that up.

That's all I'm saying.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> There's an awful lot of, "I've heard that head collars can cause damage..." in that discussion. Not one of the posts links to an actual cited case of head collar-related injury. That's my overall beef with that argument...
> 
> I've heard lots of things... including that the moon is made of cheese! Doesn't make it true!
> 
> ...


I've seen neck injury from a head harness, I've seen neck/airway injuries with choke collars too..The problem with any of these tools is what Quiz said - incorrectly used they can and do cause harm. That being said the easy-walk harness and the sensation harness (same tool different manufacturers) are much harder to use incorrectly - and even if used incorrectly I believe it's harder to cause damage with them. 

I don't use any tools when teaching loose leash walking - they hit the end of the leash (on a buckle collar or cotton slip) or pull and I stop forward motion and wait - sometimes it's a LONG wait. I'm very consistant with this from the time that they are little babies - it takes about a week and they don't pull anymore - no collar pops, no lecturing, no battles (though I get the occaisional puppy-tantrum while we're getting though the initial steps). I do the same thing with my boarding dogs - once spending over an hour with an aussie to walk from my truck to my front door on my terms..but the next time we went out on a leash I had to stop twice when the lightbulb came on and he just "got it"...You have to be very very consistant though - you can't be in a hurry and let them drag you into the vets, towards other people, squirrels, etc...BUT, I also don't plan to go anywhere in a specific timeframe during the bulk of this training. Not particularly feasible if your dog's primary potty or exercise comes from leash walks...but it's possible.

Erica


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## AcesWild (Nov 29, 2008)

MurphyTeller said:


> I don't use any tools when teaching loose leash walking - they hit the end of the leash (on a buckle collar or cotton slip) or pull and I stop forward motion and wait - sometimes it's a LONG wait. I'm very consistant with this from the time that they are little babies - it takes about a week and they don't pull anymore - no collar pops, no lecturing, no battles (though I get the occaisional puppy-tantrum while we're getting though the initial steps). I do the same thing with my boarding dogs - once spending over an hour with an aussie to walk from my truck to my front door on my terms..but the next time we went out on a leash I had to stop twice when the lightbulb came on and he just "got it"...You have to be very very consistant though - you can't be in a hurry and let them drag you into the vets, towards other people, squirrels, etc...BUT, I also don't plan to go anywhere in a specific timeframe during the bulk of this training. Not particularly feasible if your dog's primary potty or exercise comes from leash walks...but it's possible.
> 
> Erica


I find this post very useful. I would rather put more time into a dog then watch their head get whipped around.

Personally I would not use head collars, but that is a personal choice and my reasons are the same as most of those posts, and personally if the company making the thing said that THEY researched the documented cases and found NOTHING wrong, I am a bit cautious. I want a third party to research the cases, not someone who has a special interest and that is why I still believe that there might be more to it.

When I first got Moxie she would pull to the point of vomitting, it was suggested that I use a gentle leader and I did and a soon it was on she behaved fine didn't have to correct her or anything but as soon as it came off the bad behavior started again. for her she knew when it was on and it changed her behavior it got to the point where I could leave it on and buckle to her collar which worked but then one day she was on it and the leash was clipped to it. A black lab came after her she bolted to get away from the snapping jaws and ended up getting whipped around by the head, she won't go near it now. Because she felt like she couldn't escape in a scary situation and when she turned there was the big dog staring her down. (keep in mind she's only 20lbs). Not for me. No thanks.


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## JoelSilverman (Oct 21, 2008)

*The Gentle Leader*

Much like what has been written in this thread, it is all about the person holding the other end of the leash. If the Gentle Leader is a tool works for you I think you should definitely use it. I don't use one of these, and I never have and there are a few reasons. When I teach dogs to heel and not pull, it is all about teaching the dogs TO UNDERSTAND that there should be slack in the leash. There are a few ways I like to teach it, and the first begins with the dog right next to me, and me just standing there with slack in the leash.

One of the other things that I teach a dog from day one is that his nose never goes in front of my leg. With a Gentle Leader, the animal's nose is always in front of your leg. 

You can see in especially the first 4 or 5 videos in the HEEL behavior that if the animal is close to you, the corrections with the chain collar are very minimal. Remember that with many dogs, you may not be using a chain collar, and you might just be using a flat collar that your dog might normally wear. I also make sure the animal is next to my leg, and understanding that there is constant slack in the leash. 

http://www.companionsforlife.net/Heel_members1.html

1. The dog's nose next to, or in back of my leg
2. Slack in the leash
3. Since the dog is so close, corrections are minimal


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

The other reason for choosing a head halter is if the handler has physical limitations.....
When my arthritis is flaring...my fingers and toe joints are useless... a gentle leader makes walks possible - may hands just cant take any pressure and my feet cant counter balance well - my pups just dont pull at all when using a GL....
I have made it a point to get them all accustomed to wearing one...but dont use them all that often...but it is nice to know that if *I need to use it*, they will accept it...


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