# Raw... what's your opinion?



## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

I just talked to an old friend of mine... who has been feeding her dog RAW for many years now. He's gorgeous, and has wonderful teeth, etc.

I mentioned that my hubby has agreed to one meal raw and one meal kibble each day... and this is what she said...

"First of all.... Either go 100% raw... or stick with 100% kibble...
The half/half would really mess with a dog's digestive system and the kibble would just destroy the benefits of the raw.
Also, if a dog gets kibble and raw at the same time, it slows the digestive process really down... which means salmonella etc stay sin the body longer, can start to multiply and that increasses the chances of the dog getting sick e.g. salmonella poisoning. It really doesn't make sense to feed half/half. I even switch dogs cold turkey from kibble to raw and never had a problem."

I had planned on feeding the raw meal in the morning b/c it digest more quickly, and then her kibble (Innova) for her evening meal.

I have read sites about making the switch to raw, and I keep reading about for those hard to switch adults, mix the old and then new together, and keep increasing the new until you are 100% new. Which can take a month or two to accomplish sometimes. 

I am hoping that hubby will agree to 100% raw at some point in the future (by seeing the benefits from 50% raw)... but I don't risk her digestive system in order to accomplish this. So I'd love to know what is your opinion on the part raw/part kibble vs 100% of either?


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I said half bc it was the best choice of the three I guess, but really I prefer all raw. However, I don't think it hurts a dog to snack on TOP kibble like Timberwolf or EVO. Anything less in quality than those two and I agree it would somewhat blow the point of feeding raw.


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

I can't eat meat unlesss it is totally cooked and can't go raw for my dogs. HOWEVER once in a blue moon I will give them a couple of raw chicklen hearts. They actually eat the raw last. But i do cook for them and they get about 2/3 kibble and 1/3 cooked daily.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Well I sure don't eat meat either, raw or cooked- but my doggies do


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

I've read that the reason for not mixing raw and kibble is because kibble will sit in the stomach for 6-8 hours which won't allow the raw meat to pass through their system fast enough to prevent salmonella. With cooked meat there wouldn't be this problem. 

The other reason for feeding raw separately from kibble is that the stomach produces some sort of digestive acids that help the bones to soften and digest but if kibble is eaten in the same meal then the stomach doesn't produce that acid. I may be wrong, since I'm new to this, but this is what I have been reading.


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

I can't seem to add this to my other post so I'll add it here. It's about the digestion and anatomy of the dog:

B-Naturals


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## HovawartMom (Aug 10, 2006)

I do a day raw and the next one,kibble and my male is doing great.
No problems whatsoever.


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## tintallie (May 31, 2006)

Wiggles is 100% on the raw diet and we switched him over cold turkey with no problems. He digests the bones really well and his poops are small. Wiggles did very poorly on kibble diets and they gave him the runs.

Not having to scrape liquid crap off grass or asphalt is enough for me to be feeding him raw. However, EVERYONE that pets Wiggles thinks his coat is super soft


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

We just started feeding a raw diet from a local producer. I have been mixing it into their normal food (THK + TO kibble). My dogs are NUTS for it! Even Walter who we were sure was heading to the bridge goes crazy for it and has suddenly found the fountain of youth!!! Don't even get me started on her MAJ...she was RUNNING today to get her share!! I am really, really, REALLY considering making the switch to completely raw. The food we are buying now is so expensive though - $3 - $4 per pound...even more than THK! And honestly, it can't be much more difficult to make it myself, right? This stuff comes in frozen tubes - it's already ground up with veggies and bone meal. 

If anyone has any recipes for a balanced raw diet I would love to hear from them!!!


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## winstonandmaizeesmommy (Feb 8, 2007)

I was thinking of going raw and when I was at the vet today told her so. You would have thought I told her I ate puppies or something - She said that raw is bad, makes them sick, and is a step backward in feeding them!!

Kind of makes me want to do it now just to prove her wrong, but it is very expensive. I am still trying to talk myself into THK.

Lisa, what is the TO kibble that you use?

Laura
Winston and Maizee's mom


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

Check out this story of the longest living dog--eats a raw diet:

USATODAY.com - Outback mongrel could be oldest dog


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I voted half & half because it's certainly not worse than 100% kibble. Let your husband make the change gradually, it sometimes has to be that way. It was with me!


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> I am really, really, REALLY considering making the switch to completely raw. The food we are buying now is so expensive though - $3 - $4 per pound...even more than THK! And honestly, it can't be much more difficult to make it myself, right?
> 
> If anyone has any recipes for a balanced raw diet I would love to hear from them!!!


This is a good site to start off with. This woman feeds 5 (I think) Great Danes using this menu. It seemed pretty easy to understand and even easier to actually feed than some of the complicated raw diets I've come across in my reading. I have some more sites to check out if you are interested in them.

The Raw Diet

Raw Diet Menu

As I was picking up dog poop the other day (and with 4 dogs you have lots of time to contemplate things while you are picking up : ) I came to the realization that it seems as if I pick up a larger _'volume'_ of poop compared to the _'volume' _of food that goes in the other end!!! How can this be????


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

gold'nchocolate said:


> I've read that the reason for not mixing raw and kibble is because kibble will sit in the stomach for 6-8 hours which won't allow the raw meat to pass through their system fast enough to prevent salmonella. With cooked meat there wouldn't be this problem.
> 
> The other reason for feeding raw separately from kibble is that the stomach produces some sort of digestive acids that help the bones to soften and digest but if kibble is eaten in the same meal then the stomach doesn't produce that acid. I may be wrong, since I'm new to this, but this is what I have been reading.


Good information Cathy!

I agree that you should really do one or the other, I've also read research that supports that. Although I have not had any experience feeding raw, I fully respect people who do because to feed a complete diet, one must know what they are doing and take the time to do it, it's admirable in my opinon. Perhaps someday I'll feed raw , too.

I didn't check any of the poll options b/c none applied to me. I think kibble or raw is fine.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

winstonandmaizeesmommy said:


> I was thinking of going raw and when I was at the vet today told her so. You would have thought I told her I ate puppies or something - She said that raw is bad, makes them sick, and is a step backward in feeding them!!
> 
> Kind of makes me want to do it now just to prove her wrong, but it is very expensive. I am still trying to talk myself into THK.
> 
> ...


 
I am using TO's Ocean Blue formula right now, but I alternate with the Blackforest and Dakota Bison formulas also.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

gold'nchocolate said:


> This is a good site to start off with. This woman feeds 5 (I think) Great Danes using this menu. It seemed pretty easy to understand and even easier to actually feed than some of the complicated raw diets I've come across in my reading. I have some more sites to check out if you are interested in them.
> 
> The Raw Diet
> 
> As I was picking up dog poop the other day (and with 4 dogs you have lots of time to contemplate things while you are picking up : ) I came to the realization that it seems as if I pick up a larger _'volume'_ of poop compared to the _'volume' _of food that goes in the other end!!! How can this be????


 
THANKS CATHY for the raw food link!!!!!!!!!!!  I know the feeling with the poop thing. With 7 dogs right now it's pretty wild! I have Doody Calls coming twice a week and I do the "in-between" scooping! If only we could turn dog poo into a useable resource...we'd be RICH!!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I would never, btw, mix raw and kibble on the same DAY


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Nah a lot of vets are really clueless about nutrition, honestly, and are horrified at raw. My vet is too- but he cannot argue that my dogs have better teeth and coats stuff than any other clients when they're all on raw


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> I would never, btw, mix raw and kibble on the same DAY


 
Why not? Let me pick your brain!!! I am new to this raw food thing - but I have to tell ya...my dogs are NUTS over it! Buddy, our #7 (I failed fostering...AGAIN) has cancer. I want to give him the best diet I can so he can fight it. He has surgery on 7/11.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Oh they love it! The reason being that they do digest the two differently. That said- do I think it would truly cause harm? Probably not. If it's working on your oldie boy- go for it! But if you can afford to do all raw at least for the cancer pup with some good suppliments, I might go for that. If he's a good eater, perhaps you could alternate days?


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Oh they love it! The reason being that they do digest the two differently. That said- do I think it would truly cause harm? Probably not. If it's working on your oldie boy- go for it! But if you can afford to do all raw at least for the cancer pup with some good suppliments, I might go for that. If he's a good eater, perhaps you could alternate days?


I really was blown away by just how much they love it. I was hesitant initially but thought I'd give it a try. After seeing their reaction and how well they are all tolerating it - I am close to joining the raw movement! (for them, I recently went back to veg-ism for myself)

So, is there any harm that can come from mixing kibble with raw? Someone mentioned the bacteria issue (which I am not thrilled with - I am like a woman possessed with the bleach after they are done eating! : )


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

gold'nchocolate said:


> Check out this story of the longest living dog--eats a raw diet:
> 
> USATODAY.com - Outback mongrel could be oldest dog


 
WOW!!!! NOw that is incredible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

gold'nchocolate said:


> This is a good site to start off with. This woman feeds 5 (I think) Great Danes using this menu. It seemed pretty easy to understand and even easier to actually feed than some of the complicated raw diets I've come across in my reading. I have some more sites to check out if you are interested in them.
> 
> The Raw Diet
> 
> Raw Diet Menu


Lisa...this excerpt is from the above site The Raw Diet:

 OK, You have done your research and found your suppliers. You have several days worth of meals ready. Everything is bagged, frozen and in meal portions. ( more on amounts later). You will want to fast your adult dog for a full 24 hours before you start feeding raw foods. If you have a pup under 3 months of age, 12 to 18 hours is plenty. It is not good to make that young of a pup go a full 24 hours without food, but at least 12 hours of fasting is necessary. The reason for the fasting is because Kibble and Raw food digest at completely different rates. Kibble can take anywhere from 12 to 24 hours to digest depending on the quality of the kibble and the individual dog. Most people do not realize this because their dog eats a bowl of kibble and goes out and to potty a short time later. But that is more then likely yesterdays meal finally making an exit. Raw food digest in 4 to 6 hours. 
 So, while raw foods do not pose a threat of e-coli or salmonella poisoning to dogs who eat the raw diet as a sole diet, raw foods CAN cause problems if it is forced to sit in the gut with kibble waiting on it to digest. This is why vets will tell you to never feed raw food to your dog. So you want to be sure your dogs system is empty before you start feeding raw meaty bones!

I don't think I would be able to fast my dogs for 24 hrs before starting a raw diet but she recommends giving a marrow bone or other recreational bone so that they think that they have eaten and that is probably what I would do about that.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I mixed before somebody told me not to...  never had a problem. I am a germ freak myself and I hate meat, so I do clean a lot. Bleach is your friend!


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

gold'nchocolate said:


> Lisa...this excerpt is from the above site The Raw Diet:
> 
> OK, You have done your research and found your suppliers. You have several days worth of meals ready. Everything is bagged, frozen and in meal portions. ( more on amounts later). You will want to fast your adult dog for a full 24 hours before you start feeding raw foods. If you have a pup under 3 months of age, 12 to 18 hours is plenty. It is not good to make that young of a pup go a full 24 hours without food, but at least 12 hours of fasting is necessary. The reason for the fasting is because Kibble and Raw food digest at completely different rates. Kibble can take anywhere from 12 to 24 hours to digest depending on the quality of the kibble and the individual dog. Most people do not realize this because their dog eats a bowl of kibble and goes out and to potty a short time later. But that is more then likely yesterdays meal finally making an exit. Raw food digest in 4 to 6 hours.
> So, while raw foods do not pose a threat of e-coli or salmonella poisoning to dogs who eat the raw diet as a sole diet, raw foods CAN cause problems if it is forced to sit in the gut with kibble waiting on it to digest. This is why vets will tell you to never feed raw food to your dog. So you want to be sure your dogs system is empty before you start feeding raw meaty bones!
> ...


 
Ahhhh...I see! Thanks!!!!!


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> I mixed before somebody told me not to...  never had a problem. I am a germ freak myself and I hate meat, so I do clean a lot. Bleach is your friend!


My trusty bleach and water solution is practically holstered to me - I whip it out and spray away!!!


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## tintallie (May 31, 2006)

Wiggles' vet wanted us to put him on a gastro formula diet to ease the diarrhea after he was done the bland hamburger rice diet, but when we told her that the raw worked, she actually said to stick with it.

Besides, the veterinary gastro formulas had corn in it


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

Thank you soo much to everyone who replied!! The poll ended up at about 50/50 with a couple others. So I think we'll go ahead with the plan as scheduled.

The half day kibble/half day raw (6 hours apart) is not something that I want to do for the future. I want to go all raw. But I'm thinking that even half raw is better than no raw. And sometimes you have to do things slower than you'd like... until everyone is ready to accept that it's for the best.

Actually we got our raw patties delivered last night... and they brought cat patties doh! So Geddy's won't show up until tomorrow. 

She's been doing very well with the raw necks/backs, etc. that we've given her so far... perhaps it's because she's young. So I look forward to the beginnings of a proper raw life for her. 

Thanks a lot for everyone's input!!


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## Goldndust (Jul 30, 2005)

I myself do not feed raw. I would however go as far as feeding home cooked. 

With that said, there is one kibble out there today that was designed to supplement a raw diet with, it is EVO. You could check that out on there website. 

Didn't put a vote in because EVO would be one that would be ok, but by voting since no names are mentioned I didn't want all to think they all were ok do too the wording of the poll.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

I am really looking at going raw all the way. I have so far really liked what I have seen in my dogs - no gastric upset, no issues of any kind, great looking stools (I know, only dog people!) and the best part is, they LOVE it! For Walter who we suspected truly was heading to the bridge - it has brought him back to life! Maybe it's some instinctive response in him harkening back to the days of wolf packs...but if it gives him joy and health in his last days, weeks, months...then I am all for it!!!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Yup, it can make all the difference! The first raw fed dog I knew personally was a GR with heart disease and cancer AND bad hips that wasn't supposed to live past 2 or 3... he was seven when I met him. Shortly after I got into it with my then baby Whippet (now ten years old)


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

I found this "raw" site last night. If you click on "recipes" I think you'll get a kick out of it.

Raw Feeding


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

gold'nchocolate said:


> I found this "raw" site last night. If you click on "recipes" I think you'll get a kick out of it.
> 
> Raw Feeding


 
LOL! Those are my kinds of recipes!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Mine too


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