# Did I make a mistake choosing Blue Buffalo?



## ebenjamin85 (Apr 13, 2008)

We feel Blue Buffalo salmon and love it. It was the first food to eliminate a lot of tummy problems with Samantha. However, I know that a lot of others have had the opposite reaction. We stick with it because it works for us, tummy trouble and allergy wise. We've been feeding some form of BB for about 3 years now i think. 

I'm guessing though that if your pup has had tummy troubles with so many foods that something else might be going on. I think at the end of the day you have to feed what works for your dog, but make sure to give any food time as it needs to be a slow transition and it takes time to see if a new food will relieve any issues.

I'm by no means trying to advocate for BB, just saying that it has worked well for us and saved a lot in digestive upset and allergy vet bills and both the dogs love it so we're going to stick with it until we hear otherwise, but I look forward to hearing what others have to say. We're not opposed to trying new foods but want to make sure that we don't return to the diarrhea and hot spot nightmares that we had in the past.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

No one can really answer this question; you need to see how JJ responds to it.

My personal experience with BB was bad. Flora had liquid stools on it. But she also had liquid stools on Orijen and Solid Gold, so it wasn't just BB that caused problems.

I know a lot of people feed BB with good results, so I hope it works for you and JJ.

Have you tried a food that is NOT bird based? You've tried fowl and poultry, maybe try beef or lamb or fish if the BB doesn't work. Also, I would switch to an adult formula if you haven't already.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

There have been reports of puppies not tolerating BB. I would not choose it for a puppy with an already sensitive digestive tract myself. But you have to feed what works for your puppy and it might just do the trick, but he needs at least a month on it to see if it changes things.

I just can't believe that there is no test showing anything wrong after all this time he's had trouble. I had a foster dog for many months that had chronic diarrhea. The vet finally sent out stool samples to a lab to be cultured. It took a couple of weeks, but came back with a diagnoses of bacterial overgrowth in the intestines. He was put on three months of Tylan antibiotic, and we finally resolved the problem. It might be worth asking your vet about. Or it might still be coccidia that you just have not caught in the right life stage to find on the tests.

The only other thing that might show you the culprit would be tests for allergies. 

As far as food, have you looked at the Natural Balance foods? They have a line of foods that are limited ingredient, and a couple of them are novel proteins like Duck or Rabbit.


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## ebenjamin85 (Apr 13, 2008)

mylissyk said:


> There have been reports of puppies not tolerating BB. I would not choose it for a puppy with an already sensitive digestive tract myself.


Very true. We did not start Samantha on it until she was a little over a year old. We started with chicken but switched to a novel protein (salmon) as soon as it became available as you also suggested in your post.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

mylissyk said:


> There have been reports of puppies not tolerating BB. I would not choose it for a puppy with an already sensitive digestive tract myself. But you have to feed what works for your puppy and it might just do the trick, but he needs at least a month on it to see if it changes things.
> 
> I just can't believe that there is no test showing anything wrong after all this time he's had trouble. I had a foster dog for many months that had chronic diarrhea. The vet finally sent out stool samples to a lab to be cultured. It took a couple of weeks, but came back with a diagnoses of bacterial overgrowth in the intestines. He was put on three months of Tylan antibiotic, and we finally resolved the problem. It might be worth asking your vet about. Or it might still be coccidia that you just have not caught in the right life stage to find on the tests.
> 
> ...


We're shocked too that all the tests have come back negative, even though he's been having issues with diarrhea since he was just a few weeks old. We know though that some of these things can be hard to catch and that it may take several stool tests. We've probably done about 4-5 normal stool tests and that one "major" stool test.

The diarrhea isn't as bad as it use to be where he was getting it for 1-2 days. He'll get it now maybe once every other week, and it only lasts for one outing. And it's nothing like the "pudding cups" we saw before. For example, he'll have it in the morning but not in the afternoon. It goes and comes, but never sticks around for longer then a few hours. The fact he appears healthy otherwise is a plus though in our book. It can appear out of nowhere to. Like, he'll take a normal (firm) poop in the morning, walk around for 2 minutes, and then take another poop, this time it being extremely loose and wet.

What could happen if he does have something like coccidia and it's not found for a few months? Is his life or health in jeopardy if the vet or stool samples fail to indicate that?


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## ebenjamin85 (Apr 13, 2008)

JDK said:


> What could happen if he does have something like coccidia and it's not found for a few months? Is his life or health in jeopardy if the vet or stool samples fail to indicate that?


 
I'm not sure but look forward to hearing what the vets on here have to say about that. I will say that as a puppy Samantha had fleas once. A week later I saw white worms wiggling in her poop. I didn't know what to do at the time so I cleaned up the poop and threw it away (we were living in an apartment). I called the vet and they said to bring in a stool sample so I brought in her next poop. 

Their tests indicated it was clear. It took a little convincing for me to get them to give me the wormer. I basically was like "hey, I saw them in her poop earlier, trust me they are there." I guess my message is that maybe their tests are only as good as the poop they get. Have you brought in the yucky poop for testing? Sorry if I'm being too descriptive, lol!


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

ebenjamin85 said:


> I'm not sure but look forward to hearing what the vets on here have to say about that. I will say that as a puppy Samantha had fleas once. A week later I saw white worms wiggling in her poop. I didn't know what to do at the time so I cleaned up the poop and threw it away (we were living in an apartment). I called the vet and they said to bring in a stool sample so I brought in her next poop.
> 
> Their tests indicated it was clear. It took a little convincing for me to get them to give me the wormer. I basically was like "hey, I saw them in her poop earlier, trust me they are there." I guess my message is that maybe their tests are only as good as the poop they get. Have you brought in the yucky poop for testing? Sorry if I'm being too descriptive, lol!


Don't worry about being too descriptive. I work for a septic company. My job revolves around poo :

I brought in a pretty nasty looking sample once before, thinking that maybe the nastier it looked, the more it would be contaminated with a parasite. I was wrong haha.

Would love some of the vets on here to chime in though. Didn't know we had any vets on the board. That's good to know.


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## ebenjamin85 (Apr 13, 2008)

Yes there are several vets on here. It might help to create a separate post asking for vet advice in the title so that they see it?


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

Are you sure it is the food? Did you try cutting out EVERYTHING other than the food before switching diets? I thought Beamer had a food allergy but it turns out he was just allergic to rawhides and that fixed his diarrhea issues.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Rainheart said:


> Are you sure it is the food? Did you try cutting out EVERYTHING other than the food before switching diets? I thought Beamer had a food allergy but it turns out he was just allergic to rawhides and that fixed his diarrhea issues.


No, I can't say I'm 100% sure it's the food. Nor can his vet. We changed it after the vet told us too though - after numerous stool samples came back negative for parasites.

What he gets is limited though as far as treats. We were giving him maybe 3-4 Milk-Bones a day - one every time he went in his crate. I was told the main ingredient in Milk-Bones is wheat though, so we decided to switch to a peanut butter treat made by Newmans Own. He's been getting those for about 2-3 weeks now.

We were also using some bacon flavored treats at one point for training, however, he had issues with diarrhea way before we started giving him those, so we can't really say those were part of the cause. We have since cut them out, but that didn't stop the loose stools. We switched over to a salmon flavored treat made by the same company for training, but only used them for a day or two before deciding not to use them anymore (noticed they were made in Denmark). He hasn't gotten either of these two treats in about 2-3 weeks.

He was given chicken liver too during a few training sessions, but once again, he had diarrhea and loose stools weeks before we started giving him that. I recently bought a thing of beef liver, but haven't given him any of it yet.

So, basically, on a daily basis, he gets nothing but I/D kibble (3 cups) and 3-4 peanut butter treats. We probably give him about another 1/3 cup of kibble throughout the day during training sessions, since we decided to cut out any sort of "specialty treat" like the chicken liver or the bacon-flavored treats I mentioned earlier. He's never had rawhide or bully sticks or anything like that. Mostly just quality treats from companies like Wellness, Newmans Own, and Pro Treat, plus Milk-Bones - don't know if you can consider that a quality company. I have some new Wellness treats in the cabinet that I'm dying to let him try, but I'm scared they're going to cause problems since it seems like everything we give him does. They're suppose to be made with yogurt and a few other fruits.

That's what bugs us most. We would love to be giving our guy the best of the best (fruit, high quality treats for training and yatta yatta yatta), but it appears he can't handle it for whatever reason, whether it be the food itself or a nasty parasite. People in training class tonight were using hot dogs and here we are with his regular ol' I/D kibble, which he gets 3 times a day. It makes training him and getting his attention that much more difficult, I think. 

I'm wondering, could soft stools and diarrhea have anything to do with the fact that he eats incredibly fast and that the food may not be digesting properly? We have a pacer ball and everything and he still gobbles it down in the blink of an eye.


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## Chaoticnot (Aug 14, 2011)

I too have a dog that has a sensitive stomach, and around 4 months developed diarrhea, which turned out to be a sensitivity to chicken. So then switched to Canidae lamb and rice, okay for a little bit, but then started having diarrhea after about 6 months. Switched to California Natural, lamb and rice, still diarrhea. Finally now on Natural Balance fish and sweet potato. But before switching to this, he was on Tripett - green lamb tripe, which calmed his stomach down and stopped the diarrhea. So now he gets the Natural Balance and a small bit (1/4 can) of Tripett. Sometimes out of the blue, he will have an occasional runny, pudding like stool, with no change in diet. I think it is stress related. I do have to be careful with treats, nothing with chicken, and he does not tolerate any kind of rawhide/pigs ears etc, so he gets none of those. I think it is a matter of trial and error, but you probably need to remove all the treats, and just feed one kind of food, and see how he does.


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## ebenjamin85 (Apr 13, 2008)

Good idea Chaoticnot. We also switched to no corn, wheat, or chicken just to be safe. It took a year of on and off stomach upsets with Samantha for us to learn to make the complete switch but it helped a lot. Trial and error it definitely is. Don't forget that you can always use a little bit of food as a treat... we've definitely done it in the past.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Is he on an adult formula or still puppy food?


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## muchocheko (Nov 28, 2011)

Just my two cents...We switched from Eukanuba to BB soon after we got Cooper about 5 months ago. Not a health issue, but I heard that BB was supposedly a higher quality food. I'm not going to argue about the best dog food. We had our last Golden on Eukanuba his whole life (14 years) so it wasn't bad.

We've been happy with BB, aside from the higher price. I have noticed our dogs' coats are a little shinier and healthier looking, but in the end, it just matters what's best for your dog. Maybe you'll have to try different foods until you find one that works. 

I wish you the best of luck. This sounds like a trying time.


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## Sophie_Mom (Jan 21, 2009)

My Sawyer's tummy issues were finally, finally resolved when we switched him to a fish based diet. He did so well on Fromm Whitefish and Potato (and still does). The Honest Kitchen supplement Perfect Form was a godsend for us. The combination was magic for Sawyer's tummy. Honestly, for weeks and weeks our lives revolved around Sawyer's poop - we had a rating scale and everything. I was feeling like it would never end.... It seemed he was sensitive to chicken (even though he did fine on the i/d), turkey, and duck. When he matured, he could (and can) handle all of these in small doses, as long as we keep him on the Whitefish and Potato.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

kdmarsh said:


> Is he on an adult formula or still puppy food?


Still on puppy food. I was told that I shouldn't switch to adult foot until he's a year, or at least 8 months being he's a large breed dog.

I wanted to try that Pro Plan Sensitive Stomach formula, but apparently it's only for adults.


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

I'd first try cutting out all treats... everything first before you try switching foods. Just use the kibble as treats for now. See how it goes for about a week. Then you can think of switching foods if no improvement.

I had Beamer on the PP sensitive stomach formula for about a month. I liked it, but I switched him back to the regular LBP food. He was on it when he was 6 months, so I think you will be fine if you want to switch eventually.


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## cory (Aug 23, 2010)

Dakota came to us with a very very sensitive stomach. She got a little tummy bug as a pup (can't remember which one but very common) and once we got that cleared up we tried switching her to Blue Buffalo and that didn't work (it was too much and she had loose stools). We switched her to Purina Pro Plan puppy and that worked great. However, anytime we gave her a treat of any kind (except for a little peanut butter) it resulted in loose stools. Depending on the size of the treat, sometimes we could treat her ourselves and other times we needed meds from the vets. Under our vets advice, she does not get any "dog treats" at all. Her treats are carrots. She loves them. It seems that her tummy was just too sensitive to the stuff in the treats. She now eats adult ProPlan (regular) and carrots. I haven't tried any treats as I'm afraid of what may happen with her as it has been close to 9 months since she has had a "dog treat". It may be worth cutting out JJ's treats to see if that helps but for a longer period of time. It took awhile to get Dakota's stomach back to normal.


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## Tuckers Mom (Nov 12, 2010)

You have been given alot of experiences and advice here. I personally think it's the protein base that your dog has issue with. Try a Lamb based protein, it's the least allergenic to dogs as I was told by my Vet. Tucker had horrible poops on many expensive different foods. He is on Lamaderm from Natural Life Pet Products. it's a limited Ingredient diet for dogs that have allergy to common food ingredients like wheat corn, and poultry. On the FIRST FEEDING his stool was firmer, and got better from there. It is available at Walmart, and NOT because it's cheap low quality food, but because NLPP made the choice to go with WM because of the ability to distribute nationwide with good buying power to keep the costs low. The Folks at Natural Life Pet Products are Wonderful, and I have spoken with them a few times when My local WalMart did not stock what I needed for Tucker. They took care of the problem right away, and they are very knowledgeable. I would further agree with everyone else, it's trial and error, some Dogs just don't do well on the protein rich food like BB, and that was Tucker's case. His stools were oily and loose, and once I stopped feeding him poultry based food, and fish based food, he got much better. Good Luck.


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## Pemphredo (Nov 14, 2011)

mylissyk said:


> Or it might still be coccidia that you just have not caught in the right life stage to find on the tests.


This is exactly what I though! Since my pup just had a coccidia diagnosis and everything the OP posted was going on with my pup too.... we thought for sure it was just a food thing. We went threw different foods, tried pumpkin, even tried the beef rice potato thing. it would be ok for a day then water jets out her butt just when I thought it was getting better. Maybe see if the vet will give JJ a treatment for coccidia just to rule that out? I hope JJ gets better. I know how stressful it is for your pup's tummy to not feel well. You feel like you have tried everything and nothing helps. or just when you think it is getting better and you have taken a step forward you take 45 steps back and it is bad again. It's all consuming. everything you can think about. in your head constantly going threw thoughts of what to do to try to fix the problem. I am sorry y'all are going threw this and I hope it gets better soon.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

How old is JJ?

How many different foods have you tried?


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

How long have you kept him on one food before switching it?

How are you introducing the new food? (Gradually mixing it with the current food, or just a straight-up switch?)


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

JDK said:


> Still on puppy food. I was told that I shouldn't switch to adult foot until he's a year, or at least 8 months being he's a large breed dog.
> 
> I wanted to try that Pro Plan Sensitive Stomach formula, but apparently it's only for adults.


I switched Flora when she was 8 months, although I think it's okay to switch as early as 5-6 months.

I know a lot of people seem to think it's a parasite, but it could really just be that his stomach is still developing and not able to handle rich foods. Flora did not have parasites - we struggled with colitis for about 6 months with her before she stopped having liquid stools on an almost daily basis. 

Why not ask the vet to treat JJ for parasites and see if he responds to that?

Hang in there!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Could you repeat a bunch of steps:
1) 5 days of panacur
2) Pepcid AD 1/2 before feeding
3) Feed something that works even if it is not the best food like Pro Plan Sensitive Skin & Stomach and worry about a switch to a BB type food in six months. 
4) use flagyl/metro if you have to


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Allergies in dogs under one year of age are unusual. I switch my dogs over to adult food at four months of age. I have done this for almost twelve years. And since the food I feed (Wellness) didn't have LB when I started, I have always fed regular Wellness(in fact, the LB Wellness has less kcal per cup and I would have to feed more, and that doesn't make sense to me). Have you done a fecal PCR? You might have a bacteria that would respond to treatment. Also checking cobalamin,etc can be useful if they are having a lot of loose stool.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

A friend of mine posted on a previous thread... She was concerned that her five dogs might be food allergic. So we did PCR and found cryptosporidium and clostridium. Treated with Zithromax, but ultimately, the dogs are on a regimen of tylan.... And doing well.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Sally's Mom said:


> Allergies in dogs under one year of age are unusual. I switch my dogs over to adult food at four months of age. I have done this for almost twelve years. And since the food I feed (Wellness) didn't have LB when I started, I have always fed regular Wellness(in fact, the LB Wellness has less kcal per cup and I would have to feed more, and that doesn't make sense to me). Have you done a fecal PCR? You might have a bacteria that would respond to treatment. *Also checking cobalamin,etc can be useful if they are having a lot of loose stool*.


Our Toby was not a puppy when his "poop" issues started. We were seeing a loss of weight as well. We tried a couple of premium foods with disastrous results so we went to Wellness- that improved things a little, but not entirely. We went through all the fecal tests and his vet decided to do a TLI/PLI Test through Texas A&M Veterinary school (Cobalamin: Diagnostic use and therapeutic considerations - Texas A&M Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences
Bingo--he was deficient in cobalamin, and we started treating him with Vitamin B-12 (cobalamin) injections. At his first retest we discovered he was still low, so we went to a different formulation of cobalamin and increased the supplementation frequency (two injections per month as opposed to once a month), retested and he was now normal in cobalamin but low in folate. We added a daily folic acid supplement (40 mcg) and retested--normal, but... PLI was off. Another test and we know it's in normal ranges. His poop has definitely improved, his weight is basically the same (he needs to gain some weight). We find his stool is firm to slightly soft now, except if he's stressed out (vet visits) then we have a day or so of softer stuff. The last thing we will be doing (soon, just not now for other reasons) is we will be trying a single based protein kibble (egg and rice) to see if it helps. If not, we will go back to Wellness because it helped. 

I always thought dogs didn't develop digestive enzyme deficiencies until they were older, but perhaps not. I'd suggest a TLI/PLI test (there are probably other labs you can use though). 

One thing I will encourage you to do is check out this research study. They are enrolling now (no cost to you) and you can get these tests done for free--it might help: Canine Inflammatory Bowel Disease - Texas A&M Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences

The GI lab website has a lot of good information on digestive/gastro issues from a general education perspective. 

Good luck. I hope you get some answers--it is frustrating.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Pemphredo said:


> This is exactly what I though! Since my pup just had a coccidia diagnosis and everything the OP posted was going on with my pup too.... we thought for sure it was just a food thing. We went threw different foods, tried pumpkin, even tried the beef rice potato thing. it would be ok for a day then water jets out her butt just when I thought it was getting better. Maybe see if the vet will give JJ a treatment for coccidia just to rule that out? I hope JJ gets better. I know how stressful it is for your pup's tummy to not feel well. You feel like you have tried everything and nothing helps. or just when you think it is getting better and you have taken a step forward you take 45 steps back and it is bad again. It's all consuming. everything you can think about. in your head constantly going threw thoughts of what to do to try to fix the problem. I am sorry y'all are going threw this and I hope it gets better soon.


What meds are used to treat coccidia? JJ's been on medication before due to his diarrhea issues, but it's never seemed to solve it completely. Maybe for a few days or a week, but after that, it's back. He's been on Flagyl like 3-4 times already, and has had one other medication. Can't remember what it was. I'll have to look back through my papers.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

mylissyk said:


> How old is JJ?
> 
> How many different foods have you tried?


JJ is just about 6 months old. We tried Eukanuba, which the breeder had him on, and Fromm (Duck and Sweet Potato). We have Blue Buffalo Basic now (Turkey) but haven't started to give it to him yet.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

JDK said:


> JJ is just about 6 months old. We tried Eukanuba, which the breeder had him on, and Fromm (Duck and Sweet Potato). We have Blue Buffalo Basic now (Turkey) but haven't started to give it to him yet.


FYI, Fromm Duck&SP was too rich for Toby.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Sweet Girl said:


> How long have you kept him on one food before switching it?
> 
> How are you introducing the new food? (Gradually mixing it with the current food, or just a straight-up switch?)


As soon as he has a case of diarrhea (not just loose stools), we take him off the new food and go back to just I/D. I was told by a few people on here that one case of diarrhea is enough to consider the food no good.

When we do introduce him to another food, we do it gradually. He gets 1-cup, 3 times a day. So we usually start with 3/4 I/D and 1/4 new food. Do that for about 3 days and then slowly start to mixing more of the new food in day after day.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

kdmarsh said:


> I switched Flora when she was 8 months, although I think it's okay to switch as early as 5-6 months.
> 
> I know a lot of people seem to think it's a parasite, but it could really just be that his stomach is still developing and not able to handle rich foods. Flora did not have parasites - we struggled with colitis for about 6 months with her before she stopped having liquid stools on an almost daily basis.
> 
> ...


What do they use to treat parasites? He may have already been on it.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Sally's Mom said:


> Allergies in dogs under one year of age are unusual. I switch my dogs over to adult food at four months of age. I have done this for almost twelve years. And since the food I feed (Wellness) didn't have LB when I started, I have always fed regular Wellness(in fact, the LB Wellness has less kcal per cup and I would have to feed more, and that doesn't make sense to me). Have you done a fecal PCR? You might have a bacteria that would respond to treatment. Also checking cobalamin,etc can be useful if they are having a lot of loose stool.


I don't believe we've done a fecal PCR. We did some sort of "major" fecal test recently that was around $200, and everything came back negative. The vet assured us that if he had something nasty in him, that test would be the one to find it. I can't remember what the test was called, but I believe it had 4 letters in it.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Im running out of ideas here, though.

We got to the vet tomorrow for his 6-month checkup.

What should I tell the vet to do as far as tests go? Can anybody be specific and give me a list of things to ask the vet or tell the vet to do? I'm not familiar with all the different sorts of tests, so I don't even really know what to tell him to try. I'll mention the PCR test though, now that I've been made aware of that. For all I know though, we may have done that already.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Pulled out my last vet bill and wouldn't you know it, we just did a GI PCR, which set us back $187.95

Everything came back negative for that test.


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## Deb_Bayne (Mar 18, 2011)

Have you tried pumpkin? I would get a can of pure pumpkin, freeze tablespoon amounts into an ice cube tray and Bayne would get one cube with each meal. This regulated his stools whichever way we noticed, soft-hard, hard-soft. We all need fiber to help regulate us, so why not dogs/puppies.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Deb_Bayne said:


> Have you tried pumpkin? I would get a can of pure pumpkin, freeze tablespoon amounts into an ice cube tray and Bayne would get one cube with each meal. This regulated his stools whichever way we noticed, soft-hard, hard-soft.


I haven't tried pumpkin yet cause the diarrhea and loose stools don't hang around for more then a few hours. He can go out in the morning (6am) and have really loose stool, but by mid-day his stool is back to being firm, without giving him anything to firm it up inbetween. That's what baffles us. When he first started getting diarrhea it was real bad and would last throughout the day, if not into the following day. Now it comes and is gone within 2-3 hours.


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## desi.n.nutro (Mar 18, 2011)

You are on the right path looking for limited ingredient diets from premium food companies. Don’t let the net worry you about your choice. I wouldn't look to the net too much for food advice or at least I would be skeptic about a writer’s motivation. I have found so many erroneous comments about foods and ingredients out there. Your breeder and your Vet, labels, your pup and friends on GRF can help more than any review sites. I say go forward with caution and your best discernment. _All _Premium food companies create foods with the best for the pet in their minds and hearts. I work for a pet food company and our nutrition philosophy is, "Pets First, Pure Purpose, and No Compromises."


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## Pemphredo (Nov 14, 2011)

JDK said:


> What meds are used to treat coccidia? JJ's been on medication before due to his diarrhea issues, but it's never seemed to solve it completely. Maybe for a few days or a week, but after that, it's back. He's been on Flagyl like 3-4 times already, and has had one other medication. Can't remember what it was. I'll have to look back through my papers.


the med for coccidia is called Albon. my puppy is small but for her 10 day dose is only cost us $13.78 but your dog is 6 months so I am guessing the med was priced by amount and your dog would need a larger dose so the price will more then likely be higher then that. But it is worth a try I think.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

desi.n.nutro said:


> You are on the right path looking for limited ingredient diets from premium food companies. Don’t let the net worry you about your choice. I wouldn't look to the net too much for food advice or at least I would be skeptic about a writer’s motivation. I have found so many erroneous comments about foods and ingredients out there. Your breeder and your Vet, labels, your pup and friends on GRF can help more than any review sites. I say go forward with caution and your best discernment. _All _Premium food companies create foods with the best for the pet in their minds and hearts. I work for a pet food company and our nutrition philosophy is, "Pets First, Pure Purpose, and No Compromises."


JJ's breeder is a dope and I would never recommend anybody to her. I've contacted her several times about JJ's issues and she acts like it's the first time she's ever heard about any of this. She's been telling me that in all her years of breeding, she's never had a dog with a sensitive stomach. When JJ's eye was real bad, she told me she never heard a dog having an ingrown eyelash that needed to be removed surgically. She's acting like every single one of the her dogs has been 100% perfect and has never had any sort of problem what so ever. We all know that's a lie. Finally, she started trying to blame me, telling me that maybe I let him eat something he shouldn't have, and told me that maybe "I'm not ready for a puppy and should bring him back". I have since stopped talking to her cause shes no help what so ever and just wants to try and blame me for this and that.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Pemphredo said:


> the med for coccidia is called Albon. my puppy is small but for her 10 day dose is only cost us $13.78 but your dog is 6 months so I am guessing the med was priced by amount and your dog would need a larger dose so the price will more then likely be higher then that. But it is worth a try I think.


He's been on Albon twice already. Is it possible that he does have coccidia and the Albon didn't kill it off, or that it did and it just came back?


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Other than the random loose stools, is he healthy, good weight, normal activity, nice coat? 



If you are already switching him over to BB now, I would give it at least a month to see if it helps. 

If it doesn't, I think I would try the Pro Plan Sensitive Stomach food next. 6 months is old enough for adult food. 

If that doesn't work, then as crazy as this sounds, maybe you could try a lower end food, sometimes the "better" quality foods just don't do well for some dogs.

I wish this wasn't such a guessing game. It must be driving you insane.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

JDK said:


> He's been on Albon twice already. Is it possible that he does have coccidia and the Albon didn't kill it off, or that it did and it just came back?


How long was he on Albon?


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## Pemphredo (Nov 14, 2011)

mylissyk said:


> How long was he on Albon?


 That was going to be my next question because I know there are shorter doses (5 or less days I think) that I have heard do not work as well as the longer dose like Sharlette is on ( 10 days)


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## Pemphredo (Nov 14, 2011)

JDK said:


> He's been on Albon twice already. Is it possible that he does have coccidia and the Albon didn't kill it off, or that it did and it just came back?


it can come back if he is reinfected from contaminated things... like maybe your yard if he had it before and he came in contact with soil that he may have pooped on while he had it before maybe stepped in some poo and then licked his foot later he could easily re infect himself.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

mylissyk said:


> Other than the random loose stools, is he healthy, good weight, normal activity, nice coat?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, aside from the occasional diarrhea, he appears healthy as can be. He eats, drinks, plays, bites, and does everything a normal puppy would. His coat is nice and soft. People can't keep there hands off him due to how soft he is. That's why I'm not majorly concerned, cause he doesn't have any of the other symptoms a sick puppy would have.

I'm not sure how tall he is since it's hard to measure him, but his weight seems to be good. I weight him every Saturday. This past Saturday, he weighted in at 43.2 lbs. The week before that he was 41.2. So he's gaining weight.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

mylissyk said:


> How long was he on Albon?


I'm gonna have to take a guess here and say that both times he was on it for at least a week, if not a little longer.

Knowing that he can reinfect himself again, I guess it could be a possibility he has it again. However, the vet doesn't seem to think so as they haven't once suggested putting him back on Albon or Flagyl.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

mylissyk said:


> If you are already switching him over to BB now, I would give it at least a month to see if it helps.


I haven't started to switch him over from the I/D yet. Figured I would wait until tomorrow to see what the vet says when we go for his 6-month check-up.

Let me ask you, if I begin to switch him over to BB and he has a case of diarrhea, should I immediately stop giving him the BB as some people suggested in the past when it came to giving him other foods, or wait a few days to see if his stomach is just adapting to the new food? How long and how many cases of diarrhea do I wait for before deciding the food isn't working? I was told once before that if he has one case of diarrhea, it's enough to label the food no good for him.

While I got you here, let me explain how the process went when we gave him Fromm. We gradually started adding Fromm in when his stool firmed up. He made it about a week and a half before having a case of diarrhea. At this point he was getting about a 50/50 mix of the I/D and Fromm. I was told by the vet to take him off the Fromm, put him back on just I/D, and wait a week or two before trying the food again. So we did. The second time we tried it, he got diarrhea within 3 days.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

I can't find the old prescription bottles from when he was on Albon, but I did find the ones from when he was on Flagyl. He was getting 250MG of Flagyl twice a day for a week.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

When I switched Flora's foods I did it cold turkey, and my vet gave me a week long prescription of Metronidazole to keep her solid during the switch. That way, I was able to get her off her old food and onto her new food without having to deal with the diarrhea associated with switching. Maybe you could ask your vet for some Metro to use and switch JJ over to BB cold turkey.

I wouldn't discard a food based off of one incident of diarrhea. I'd give it at least a couple of weeks, as others have suggested. If the diarrhea continues and the vet assures you he doesn't have parasites, then I'd try an adult formula food that is fish or lamb based.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

kdmarsh said:


> When I switched Flora's foods I did it cold turkey, and my vet gave me a week long prescription of Metronidazole to keep her solid during the switch. That way, I was able to get her off her old food and onto her new food without having to deal with the diarrhea associated with switching. Maybe you could ask your vet for some Metro to use and switch JJ over to BB cold turkey.
> 
> I wouldn't discard a food based off of one incident of diarrhea. I'd give it at least a couple of weeks, as others have suggested. If the diarrhea continues and the vet assures you he doesn't have parasites, then I'd try an adult formula food that is fish or lamb based.


I'll run the idea of switching him cold turkey with a prescription of Metronidazole by my vet tomorrow and see what he says. Maybe it's the chicken in the I/D doing this...?

It was also suggested by a member that we get a PLI/TLI test, which we'll also ask about tomorrow.

Nobody believes it could just be a case of the food not settling or digesting well since he eats to fast? Personally, I've never heard of this causing diarrhea, but some friends of mine have asked me if I ever taught that could be the problem.


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## mayapaya (Sep 28, 2011)

Sounds like you are doing things right in the timing and amounts of new food you are introducing, and another thing that seems odd is the sporadic bouts of diarhhea--it would seem that if it was the food, the diarhhea would be consistent. Maya did not do particularly well on Blue Buffalo--very soft stools, and occasional diarrhea. I'd read in several other threads that some pups had problems with it as well, but then you will find others who rave about it--which is pretty much what you will find about almost every food out there. I slowly switched Maya over to Fromm's, (she's had the chicken ala ved, and duck and sweet potato) and she's doing very well now. Maybe it's a combination of the food and some type of parasite. Hope it go's well at the vet tomorrow and you can find a food that works for your guy!


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## Faith82 (Aug 25, 2011)

We used BB for a while and our pup had diarrhea with it (I've heard it is really rich). We switched to Fromm and he's doing great. If the Fromm didn't work a friend of mine whose going to school to be a vet told us to try Nutro for sensitive skin and stomachs. We read up on it and it sounds good.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

mayapaya said:


> and another thing that seems odd is the sporadic bouts of diarhhea--it would seem that if it was the food, the diarhhea would be consistent.


That's what I always believed, and that it wouldn't take a week for it to disagree with his stomach. I know when I eat something that doesn't agree with me, I feel the effects of it that night, if not the next morning. It's pretty odd we think.

If he had a parasite or some sort of infection, would he show signs of diarrhea and loose stool ALL the time, or could it be possible that one day he would have diarrhea, firm up the next day, and then not experience it again for a couple days?

My worry is that if there is a parasite or an infection and the vet and stool samples aren't detecting it, it's going to effect JJ's health in a bad way. How long can a dog have a parasite or infection before it does damage to him?That's why I'm real anxious over this cause I hate to think something else is wrong and it's going to have a negative impact on his health.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Ask your vet about tylan and probiotics...


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Sally's Mom said:


> Ask your vet about tylan and probiotics...


Will do. I'm writing all this stuff down.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

JDK said:


> I'll run the idea of switching him cold turkey with a prescription of Metronidazole by my vet tomorrow and see what he says. Maybe it's the chicken in the I/D doing this...?
> 
> It was also suggested by a member that we get a PLI/TLI test, which we'll also ask about tomorrow.
> 
> Nobody believes it could just be a case of the food not settling or digesting well since he eats to fast? Personally, I've never heard of this causing diarrhea, but some friends of mine have asked me if I ever taught that could be the problem.


I'm not a vet so I don't know for sure, but I don't think how fast the food goes into his stomach would affect how it gets digested through the intestines/colon. But I could be totally wrong.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

JDK said:


> I'm gonna have to take a guess here and say that both times he was on it for at least a week, if not a little longer.
> 
> Knowing that he can reinfect himself again, I guess it could be a possibility he has it again. However, the vet doesn't seem to think so as they haven't once suggested putting him back on Albon or Flagyl.


Just a week of Albon would not be enough to clear a coccidia infection. When I've treated for it, it was a 14 day course, and it may need to be repeated because of the life cycle of the parasite. It is also notorious for not being easily found in the fecal tests.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Sally's Mom said:


> Ask your vet about tylan and probiotics...


I agree with Sally's Mom 100%


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## embreeo (Aug 19, 2006)

Wow, you've really had a lot going on since you got your puppy! I want to offer my two cents on a couple of things.

I've always switched my puppies to adult food once they reached 6 months of age. Personally, I think it's better to let the dog grow at a little slower pace - not trying to stunt the growth, but better for the hips and joints in the long run. You mentioned wanting to try Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Stomach but it is an adult food. I've used this food and had great success with one of my dogs. She had surgery at a very young age and her stomach was never right after that. On that food, she had great stools.

I once tried Blue Buffalo on my other dogs because I had heard such great tihngs about it. They all got diarrhea and I never even finished the bag. That's not to say BB isn't a good food ... it just didn't work for my dogs.

You also mentioned JJ eats too fast. Have you tried putting water in his food?

I agree with Sally's Mom about trying the probiotics. I give it to all of my dogs daily and I think it really helps.

I hope you get your problem solved ... I really feel for you. BTW, how is JJ's eye doing?


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## Sheamus (Jul 4, 2010)

We had Sheamus on Blue Buffalo and he was having tons of gas and very loose stools, so we switched him to Costco brand..Kirkland Chicken, vegetables and rice..the difference is amazing...I have met many golden owners who use this dog food and at first was very aprehensive about using a "chain" store dog food, but after researching it have found that it is a very high quality dog food with all the same ingredients as a much more expensive brand, I can get 40lbs for just under $30.00 a bag, Sheamus loves it and the gas and loose stools have stopped, I highly recommend you lookk into this food...food for thought!


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

mylissyk said:


> Just a week of Albon would not be enough to clear a coccidia infection. When I've treated for it, it was a 14 day course, and it may need to be repeated because of the life cycle of the parasite. It is also notorious for not being easily found in the fecal tests.


If he doesn't have a parasite/infection and he's put on Albon anyway, are there any negative side effects to taking it if he doesn't need it? Could the vet give it to him just to give it to him, to see if it works and cures anything, or would it be bad to give a dog Albon when they don't need it?


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

embreeo said:


> Wow, you've really had a lot going on since you got your puppy! I want to offer my two cents on a couple of things.
> 
> I've always switched my puppies to adult food once they reached 6 months of age. Personally, I think it's better to let the dog grow at a little slower pace - not trying to stunt the growth, but better for the hips and joints in the long run. You mentioned wanting to try Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Stomach but it is an adult food. I've used this food and had great success with one of my dogs. She had surgery at a very young age and her stomach was never right after that. On that food, she had great stools.
> 
> ...


We have tired wetting his food before, but he still ate it extremely fast. I just started, as in this weekend, feeding him his dinner in a Kong Wobbler to try and get him to eat slower. It works, and he has a blast playing with it, so that's a plus. It takes him about 8-10 minutes to eat a cup of kibble out of the Wobbler, whereas it takes no longer then 3minutes when it's in a bowl with a pacer.

His eye is better but still not 100%. It's probably 75% better. He doesn't seem to be bothered by it though. The only time he'll try and scratch it is after he wakes up from a nap. He'll throw himself on the living room floor, roll back and forth on his back and rub his eyes on the carpet. After about 5 minutes of that, he'll try and scratch it with his paw, which is where I step in to stop him. After stretching out, he won't bother with it again until he wakes up from another long nap. He also squints it when he's tired. He doesn't appear to be clamping it shut though like he was when his eye problem first started.


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## Deb_Bayne (Mar 18, 2011)

I was going to try Blue Buffalo but when I saw the recall on it posted here I decided not to try it. Decided to just stick with ProPlan Large Breed and switched Bayne to adult at 6 months. He does great on it. I was going to change him to Acana and started slowly introducing it but he started getting soft stools so I switched back to PP and will just stay with it from now on.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

The sulfa in albon can cause keratitis sicca(dry eye). Coccidia does not usually cause disease in an animal with a good immune system... Coccidia is not really extremely pathogenic ..... I would be digging deeper.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

JDK said:


> If he doesn't have a parasite/infection and he's put on Albon anyway, are there any negative side effects to taking it if he doesn't need it? Could the vet give it to him just to give it to him, to see if it works and cures anything, or would it be bad to give a dog Albon when they don't need it?


That would be a question for the vet.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Sally's Mom said:


> The sulfa in albon can cause keratitis sicca(dry eye). Coccidia does not usually cause disease in an animal with a good immune system... Coccidia is not really extremely pathogenic ..... I would be digging deeper.


That's interesting since JJ has some eye issues that are resolving. 

SM, have you ever seen a puppy with a digestive enzyme disorder? I was under the impression they typically develop later in their lives, but I'm wondering if JJ has IBD or a cobalmin/folate issue.


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## doggiedad (Aug 27, 2011)

you might have to switch foods a few times before
finding one that works for your dog. dogs can be allergic to
chicken and turkey. how old is your pup? he might have
purebreditis.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> you might have to switch foods a few times before
> finding one that works for your dog. dogs can be allergic to
> chicken and turkey. how old is your pup? he might have
> purebreditis.


Just under 6 months.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Alright, so here's the situation. Hope you like to read.

As I mentioned earlier, we had to take JJ for his 6-month checkup today. I wrote down many of the things you guys suggested asking the vet, such as going him Tylan or Probiotics, giving him a prescription of Albon, checking for cobalamin, doing a TLI/PLI and etc. Here's what the vet has decided to do when I questioned him about these things and told him that JJ is continuing to have problems with his stool.

He wants to start with a trial run of Albon. He said there's no harm in giving a dog Albon even if it's not necessarily needed. However, he only gave me enough for 6 days. 2 pills tonight and one each day for 5 days afterwards. After leaving there, I remember somebody on here had mentioned that when giving Albon, it should be for at least 10 days. Should I call back and request more, or just play it out for now?

If the Albon doesn't clear things up, he wants to do a Cobalamin/Folate Test. By the way, he really liked this suggestion. Not that he wasn't going to suggest it himself, but he was surprised it was suggested. I told him I get the advice from some pretty experienced Golden owners 

If there's no problems there, which I hope there isn't cause he said if so, I would have to give JJ a shot on a weekly basis and I don't like the idea of injection my dog without experience, he wants to do a Metronidozle trial. He said that's simple, and if there is improvement, he wants to switch him over to Tylan rather then keep him on Metronidozle.

He said he doesn't see a TLI test being needed in JJ's future, but a PLI test wouldn't be a bad idea after running these trials.

As far as food goes, he wants me to keep JJ on the I/D kibble and not mix the new food in. I asked him about treats and he said "I'm not a hard ass, so I'm not going to tell you to not give him treats cause look at him, I wanna give him a treat myself". He said just keep tabs on what we give him as far as treats and if we notice the next day that his poop isn't firm, don't give him that specific treat anymore. What do you guys think about stepping around from the store-bought treats altogether and just giving him something like carrot slices? He loved the carrots when I gave them to him before.

On another note, he asked me if I was thinking of neutering JJ. I told him I was, but not yet, and that under the advice of other Golden owners and his breeder, I was probably going to wait until he's at least a year. He asked why out of curiosity and I told him cause I was advised it's the best thing to do for cancer reason. Shocked by his answer, he said neutering a dog now doesn't have anything to do with whether or not they get cancer and it won't lessen the chance if I get him neutered later. He wasn't arguing with me, but he went on to say that it's better to neuter a dog now for standard reason like humping, aggression with another male, tracking females, and that the only reason people don't do it now is cause they want the dog to look more manly, and maybe because they're doing something like agility where the dog should have tons of energy. Neither here or there, I'm not going to neuter him now.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

As far as neutering, there is evidence that waiting provides benefits. Perhaps you should print out this study and share with your vet. http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/longtermhealtheffectsofspayneuterindogs.pdf


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> As far as neutering, there is evidence that waiting provides benefits. Perhaps you should print out this study and share with your vet. http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/longtermhealtheffectsofspayneuterindogs.pdf


I know there's evidence out there, which is why I was shocked when he disagreed. I don't know if it's just what everybody does around here and the vets push it, or what, but you would think that with there being evidence out there to prove otherwise, they would suggest waiting. I do have to say though, there's a boat load of dogs around here that end of missing. You always see a picture of a different one on a telephone pole or on the bulletin board downtown. The books at the vets for missing dogs are loaded too. I guess it's one of those things that each person has a different opinion on, since it can be both good and bad to do it early.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I like the carrot idea.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Aside from carrots, I found another way to get him to work for me. I'm trying to teach him how to step up, and since he doesn't really get to excited for the I/D kibble, I decided, let me add a twist to it. Knowing every dog loves peanut butter, I put a tiny bit on the cap and just dipped the end of few pieces of kibble in it. Once he caught the smell and the taste, he was stepping up all night long.

Is peanut butter something neutral I could give him in tiny amounts like that (not even close to 1/4 of a teaspoon, or would the carrots be a better choice, and a healthier one at that?


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## Deb_Bayne (Mar 18, 2011)

JDK said:


> I know there's evidence out there, which is why I was shocked when he disagreed. I don't know if it's just what everybody does around here and the vets push it, or what, but you would think that with there being evidence out there to prove otherwise, they would suggest waiting. I do have to say though, there's a boat load of dogs around here that end of missing. You always see a picture of a different one on a telephone pole or on the bulletin board downtown. The books at the vets for missing dogs are loaded too. I guess it's one of those things that each person has a different opinion on, since it can be both good and bad to do it early.


My vet at first suggested 6 months for neutering, however I went back and discussed with her that I would like to wait because of what I learned here on the forum and she totally agreed, she admitted that there is a lot more information and studies done that show more benefits to waiting that there is to early neuter. I was relived to not have to stand my ground with her because she is an awesome person and vet to my cats too.


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## Deb_Bayne (Mar 18, 2011)

JDK said:


> Is peanut butter something neutral I could give him in tiny amounts like that (not even close to 1/4 of a teaspoon, or would the carrots be a better choice, and a healthier one at that?


If you can buy the unsalted peanut butter or even better, make your own. It's so simple to make and you'll always have fresh PB for yourself and JJ.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Deb_Bayne said:


> If you can buy the unsalted peanut butter or even better, make your own. It's so simple to make and you'll always have fresh PB for yourself and JJ.


That's not a bad idea really. Peanut butter is pretty easy to make. Maybe I'll order some unsalted nuts from NutsOnline - roasted / peanuts — NutsOnline - and give it a try.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I'll keep fingers crossed the Albon works and that cures everything up--but watch his eyes for signs of dryness. Sally's Mom mentioned this as a side effect in this thread.

If you end up needing to give cobalamin injections please PM me--we are doing this twice a month. As far as injections go, I share your hesitance to do it--it scares the heck out of me. The good news is these injections are easily accomplished because you don't need to inject in a muscle--and if I can do it, I know you can! If he's folate deficient--that's a simple folic acid tablet (40 mcg) you can get at any drugstore (and it's cheap). 

Regarding peanut butter, a word of caution--it is very rich and can cause some stool softening if it's overdone. We went to tiny amounts of an all natural one--no sugar, no salt, no added oils (Arrowhead Mills and one Smuckers brand). It's hard to find in the stores too. I ended up just getting unsalted no oil added peanuts at the grocery store and processing them in small amounts in the food processor. I even like the homemade PB! We don't give it to him every day, just to not overdo it.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Maybe I should just stick with the carrots to be on the safe side, or something like apple slices....? Granted I only gave him a tiny amount of peanut butter, it seems the littlest things can set him off. I gotta find something that works and is more exciting then his kibble to train him with.

What would be some signs of dryness to watch for?


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

JDK said:


> Maybe I should just stick with the carrots to be on the safe side, or something like apple slices....? Granted I only gave him a tiny amount of peanut butter, it seems the littlest things can set him off. I gotta find something that works and is more exciting then his kibble to train him with.
> 
> What would be some signs of dryness to watch for?


The usual redness, rubbing and pawing at his eyes. I'm not sure how "recovered" he is from his previous eye issues. I'd just look at them carefully and watch him for signs they may be bothering him. With my dry eye they get really red and irritated. Sometimes it feels better if I squint or close them--probably same with dogs.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Dallas Gold said:


> The usual redness, rubbing and pawing at his eyes. I'm not sure how "recovered" he is from his previous eye issues. I'd just look at them carefully and watch him for signs they may be bothering him. With my dry eye they get really red and irritated. Sometimes it feels better if I squint or close them--probably same with dogs.


Well, he still paws at his eye, and rubs it on the carpet. As I've mentioned before, he usually only does this after a long nap. So, 3 times a day. He'll do it for maybe 3-4 minutes and then stop. I let him rub it on the carpet, but as soon as I see him go at it with the paw, I stop him. He initially did this with just his right eye, the one that he had the problem with, which, by the way, still tears up a little bit. The only time it really tears up is after his naps, when he starts rubbing it on the floor. I've noticed that he started rubbing his left eye too, which he never had a problem with and which doesn't tear like the right one. I know when I wake up, I stretch and rub my eyes, which is basically what he's doing, but I don't know if he's doing it for reasons that it bothers him since that's the only time he'll do it. After that first time, he could play, get tired out, lay around, and not bother with it one bit.

What's odd is, these past few days I have let him wonder around all day instead of putting him in his crate to sleep. So he'll take quick naps in all different places around the house, moving from time to time. When he wakes up from these power naps, he doesn't bother with his eye. It's like he only does it after taking a long nap in his crate for a few hours.

If he had dry eye, his eye wouldn't tear up, would it?

I wanted to get him doing the whole rubbing his eye on the floor thing this afternoon, but I apparently left the baby gate open and he ran to the door first. He didn't do it after coming back in, so I guess going outside for a couple minutes avoided it. I'm sure he'll do it tonight though.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Wow, from your description it sounds like he's got eye allergy irritation, not dry eye. My Toby does the exact same things and we have a difficult time preventing it. He's just had double cataract surgery and is still healing so we don't want him irritating anything in his eyes.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Dallas Gold said:


> Wow, from your description it sounds like he's got eye allergy irritation, not dry eye. My Toby does the exact same things and we have a difficult time preventing it. He's just had double cataract surgery and is still healing so we don't want him irritating anything in his eyes.


eye allergy irritation as in his eyes are bothering cause he's allergic to something? Forgive me if that's a dumb question.

He's in the crate now, but when he wakes up I'll record it so you can see what he does. I wouldn't think that rubbing his head on the carpet would hurt him, but I know if he starts to paw at it, he could easily scratch it.

If you recall a few months ago, the eye specialist originally told us he had an ingrown eyelash, and went into full detail with a drawing to show us exactly what was going on. He was sure of it, so he scheduled surgery for a month later. By then, with drops daily, JJ's eye not better. Not 100%, but almost. So the doctor said to cancel surgery, continue the drops for another week and just keep an eye on it. If we noticed it was bothering him again as it was before, then he would do surgery. It never entirely healed, but it's nowhere as bad as it was before. It's around 80%. We went back after a month for another check-up and the specialist told us that he couldn't see the ingrown hair now but now there was a little bump on the inside of his top eyelid where the ingrown hair originally was. So he said that's what appears to be bothering JJ now, and not an actual hair as before. He started throwing out technical terms, but I think he was basically saying that his eyelid grew over it, causing a tiny lump. Once again, he said keep an eye on it and if he starts clamping it shut and going at it continuously, bring him back. As time went by, he started rubbing his left eye on the floor, although he doesn't really paw at that one as much as the right. The vets and specialist have told us that aside from that tiny bump, his eyes look great and respond perfect.

Knowing all that, do you think I should get a second opinion from another eye specialist?


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

JDK said:


> eye allergy irritation as in his eyes are bothering cause he's allergic to something? Forgive me if that's a dumb question.
> 
> He's in the crate now, but when he wakes up I'll record it so you can see what he does. I wouldn't think that rubbing his head on the carpet would hurt him, but I know if he starts to paw at it, he could easily scratch it.
> 
> ...


I'm no expert and you have to go with your gut on whether you trust this specialist's opinion. If you feel like they are hurting him you can always ask for a recheck or go with another opinion. 

He could have environmental allergies, like we humans do, to pollens in the air. I'm sensitive to things like mountain cedar, ragweed and fungus. The first two are prevalent this time of year, the fungus is a year round thing. I've had 2 dogs with eye issues related to pollens as well and it comes and goes depending on what's out there. The only way to know for sure if JJ has environmental allergies is to do allergy testing and he's so young and it doesn't seem like he'd develop them this young. Both of my guys had them develop as adults.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Dallas Gold said:


> I'm no expert and you have to go with your gut on whether you trust this specialist's opinion. If you feel like they are hurting him you can always ask for a recheck or go with another opinion.
> 
> He could have environmental allergies, like we humans do, to pollens in the air. I'm sensitive to things like mountain cedar, ragweed and fungus. The first two are prevalent this time of year, the fungus is a year round thing. I've had 2 dogs with eye issues related to pollens as well and it comes and goes depending on what's out there. The only way to know for sure if JJ has environmental allergies is to do allergy testing and he's so young and it doesn't seem like he'd develop them this young. Both of my guys had them develop as adults.


I understand you're not a licensed professional, but I respect your opinion since you have far more experience and knowledge when it comes to these things then I do. I'm still learning here  I've always had mutts for dogs, and none of them ever had problems like this, so it's all new to me.

I caught him on video tonight. He didn't do it for as long as he usually does, but I'll upload the video tomorrow so you can see what I'm talking about.

Part of me wants to go for a second opinion, and another part of me doesn't. My worry is that they're going to push for surgery, which may only be because they want money and not cause he actually needs it. I would hate to put him through that as such a young age if its not necessarily needed. If what the first specialist told us is in fact true and that he really does just have a little bump under his eyelid and we can avoid him scratching his eye, I don't know if surgery is really needed. He didn't think it was at this time. Then again, another specialist may diagnosis him with the same thing but tell us surgery is needed since he makes any attempt at all to rub it. Since I'm not an expert and have limited experience on the cause and effects, I don't want to make the wrong decision just cause some money hungry specialist suckered me into giving him a couple grand.

That's why I come here to ask for the opinions of my Golden buddies 

My gut tells me that he's got a problem with chicken. I keep a close eye on his eye to see when it tears and when he bothers with it. Sometimes, it seems like it tears up a little more then usual after after eating the I/D, which is loaded with chicken product. Still, it doesn't tear up a lot, but unless my mind is playing tricks on me cause I want to think it's something as simple as the food, I believe there's more of a tear after eating as opposed to any other time of the day. Once it tears up after eating or him rubbing it on the floor, it drys up pretty quick and doesn't tear up again until the next time.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Trust your instincts. If the eye issues appear to bother him, if I were in your shoes I'd get a second opinion from another certified ophthalmologist, just to be on the safe side. In my experience I've never felt the specialists were pushy to do surgery. In fact our ophthalmologist put off doing cataract surgery on Toby until he developed a second cataract and it started progressing. Only then did he tell me we should consider surgery. He's been Toby's ophthalmologist since he was 6 months old--and he will be 8 years next month. 

If the bump is on the inside of the eyelid, my gut would tell me it is going to be an irritant and I'd want him out if the specialist recommended it, but I'm just imagining how it would make me feel.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Dallas Gold said:


> Trust your instincts. If the eye issues appear to bother him, if I were in your shoes I'd get a second opinion from another certified ophthalmologist, just to be on the safe side. In my experience I've never felt the specialists were pushy to do surgery. In fact our ophthalmologist put off doing cataract surgery on Toby until he developed a second cataract and it started progressing. Only then did he tell me we should consider surgery. He's been Toby's ophthalmologist since he was 6 months old--and he will be 8 years next month.
> 
> If the bump is on the inside of the eyelid, my gut would tell me it is going to be an irritant and I'd want him out if the specialist recommended it, but I'm just imagining how it would make me feel.


My gut is in the middle :doh:

Part of me says get it out of there and the another part of me says if I can avoid him scratching it with his paw for those first 5-10 minutes after he wakes up, surgery may not be necessary right now. The whole idea of surgery just worries me. Even for myself. Maybe I'll seek a second opinion though. I do have more questions now then I did before, such as whether or not the bump is going to grow over time, and if it's something that's going to rub against his eye and cause a problem over time. I wouldn't imagine it's something he can "grow into". If he bothered with it all the time, I'd def be doing surgery to protect his eye, but since it's just for around 30 minutes total for the entire day, I'm on the fence.


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## Chaoticnot (Aug 14, 2011)

JDK -you have certainly gone through a lot with JJ, I remember when you were first posting about getting a puppy and were worried about getting a dog walker/sitter, for when he was little so he wouldn't be left alone all day. Then the eye stuff, and now the diarrhea. You certainly have proven what a devoted doggie parent you are, with all your postings here on the forum.

In reading these forums, I have found that many goldens do have a chicken intolerance, so if that is your gut feeling, then eliminate any items with chicken, especially treats. My dog has a chicken intolerance, and gets diarrhea if he has anything with chicken in it.

I also give him probiotics, he is on Natural Balance sweet potatoe and fish diet, and does pretty well on it. But still has occasional diarrhea, and I cannot always associate it with something he ate. I think sometimes it is stress related, and he just has a sensitive stomach.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Chaoticnot said:


> JDK -you have certainly gone through a lot with JJ, I remember when you were first posting about getting a puppy and were worried about getting a dog walker/sitter, for when he was little so he wouldn't be left alone all day. Then the eye stuff, and now the diarrhea. You certainly have proven what a devoted doggie parent you are, with all your postings here on the forum.
> 
> In reading these forums, I have found that many goldens do have a chicken intolerance, so if that is your gut feeling, then eliminate any items with chicken, especially treats. My dog has a chicken intolerance, and gets diarrhea if he has anything with chicken in it.
> 
> I also give him probiotics, he is on Natural Balance sweet potatoe and fish diet, and does pretty well on it. But still has occasional diarrhea, and I cannot always associate it with something he ate. I think sometimes it is stress related, and he just has a sensitive stomach.


Thanks for the comments. We sure have been through a lot with JJ, but it's worth it for him. I couldn't be more happy, even if he is a "special needs" dog.

I do feel there's something going on with the chicken, but the vet wants me to keep him on I/D while he runs all these trials. So we'll wait until that's over with and then try the Blue Buffalo Turkey. If that doesn't work, he'll be old enough for old food and we'll try the Purina Sensitive Stomach formula which I think is fish-based.


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## JDK (Jul 30, 2011)

Here's the video of JJ stretching out and rubbing his eyes on the carpet I talked so much about. I can save you the trouble of watching the whole thing by telling you he doesn't really get going until 1:45. Before that he's just laying there, nibbling at a scratch on his back. The rolling around on his back is part of his usual routine as well.


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## DebP (Oct 10, 2011)

My girl has a problem with bully sticks she has an upset tummy every time she has one. Make sure it's not a treat of some kind eliminate them for a long while then reintroduce one at a time and see if thats the problem.


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## roxanness (May 29, 2009)

I don't have any experience with BB, but I do have experience with a dog with chronic soft stools and diahrrea. It took me a while to figure out that he can not tolerate and fowl products at all. I have been feeding him EVO (red meat) and he his stools have been solid (weight and coat are great too!) EVO is grain free and I am happy to say that since I switched to it quite a few years ago, my dog has never had an ear infection or a hot spo - he is now seven.


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## desi.n.nutro (Mar 18, 2011)

JDK said:


> JJ's breeder is a dope and I would never recommend anybody to her.


I agree. The breeder sounds like a dope and a self-righteous dope at that. I take back the breeder statement then.


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## Jamiebehr (Jun 20, 2014)

*Diarrhea problems*

Working in a veterinarians office I have learned that a lot of these chronic diarrhea problems can be traced back to a pancreatic indeficiancy which can sometimes be accompanied by low cobalamine. Usually a very thorough GI panel can pick this up and checking the cobalamine/folate levels. Currently have 3 clients with Goldens that this ended up being the case. Started them on enzymes for the pancreas and once monthly B12 injections and they are doing amazingly!! Just something to consider discussing with your vet if struggling with chronic off/on diarrhea. We also recommend Royal Canin foods to accompany the therapy and finally owners started to see consistent solid stools.


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