# Breeders' snap judgments



## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

And this is why so many people buy from Byb. In my opinion when breeders act like that it is arrogant. Who wants to go through that when getting a puppy that you want as a family pet.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

That's a shame. Because who knows what awesomeness was behind those fourteen words.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Cpc1972 said:


> Who wants to go through that when getting a puppy that you want as a family pet.


You do. These breeders have the puppies who will be healthy, who have the famous Golden temperaments, who will be rugged and hardy, who will be able to play all day and then flip the "off" switch so that they are manageable in the house, and who are less likely to suffer from hip or elbow dysplasia, heart problems, eye problems, and other diseases that run rampant in the BYB and puppy mill puppies.

Put your ego aside and do what you have to do to make a good impression on these breeders. You'll be glad you did for a decade or more.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Brave said:


> That's a shame. Because who knows what awesomeness was behind those fourteen words.


To be fair, there were some breeders in that particular thread who said they would return the contact in good faith and make an effort to determine what was behind those fourteen words, and whether or not they would be a good home that just needs some education. There were some very thoughtful and good-hearted breeders commenting in that thread, too. It's just that there were so many who were quick to judge and condemn. You have to be careful what you say. You think you're making a casual inquiry, but the breeder doesn't see it that way, at all.

And there were some people from this forum in that thread, too. And other such threads.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

I always try to think of it from the breeders perspective. I haven't ever had to place a dog or puppy but if I had bred a dog I loved, with careful planning, raised a puppy for 8 weeks and absolutely loved them with all my heart, I'd want them to go o someone who loves them at least as much as I do. Not all puppy buyers are good people looking for a family pet. Many are BYB's looking to buy a puppy and turn them into a puppy machine. Other people might mean well but aren't really suited to owning a golden or any kind of puppy. It's not all good in the world and I can see how a breeder could get jaded after a while, especially if they'd been burned before.


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## Jamm (Mar 28, 2010)

This is a great post. Every time I read the horror stories about breeders I feel so grateful our first time was so easy and perfect with our breeder.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

> I always try to think of it from the breeders perspective. I haven't ever had to place a dog or puppy but if I had bred a dog I loved, with careful planning, raised a puppy for 8 weeks and absolutely loved them with all my heart, I'd want them to go o someone who loves them at least as much as I do. Not all puppy buyers are good people looking for a family pet. Many are BYB's looking to buy a puppy and turn them into a puppy machine. Other people might mean well but aren't really suited to owning a golden or any kind of puppy. It's not all good in the world and I can see how a breeder could get jaded after a while, especially if they'd been burned before.


Yup. This. ^^^


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

Dana I think this is a great thread. From my very limited experience with the kind of breeders you are talking about I have learned so much and realize that they truly are working to make the golden breed the best they can. I imagine many of them have learned over their years of breeding to be cautious because of reasons we will never know.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I just think people need to all around be careful about their written presentation so to speak. In my line of work, I see a lot of resumes from people and am surprised that so many people don't proofread or really give a lot of thought as to how they send emails or what they say. In the department of first impressions - it is a quick disposal, unfortunately. And I can understand why this happens elsewhere, including with breeders.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

If a particular person is looking for a particular way to be contacted, why not put out a contact form on their website? Or have a downloadable questionnaire that the potential puppy buyer can fill out and email to the breeders for consideration? 

Buyers are not psychic. I think it's unfair to judge a buyer prematurely because they didn't address a breeder in the manner in which the breeder deems worthy. 

Edited for typo.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Brave said:


> If a particular person is looking for a particular way to be contacted, why not put out a contact form on their website? Or have a downloadable questionnaire that the potential puppy buyer can fill out and email to the breeders for consideration?
> 
> Buyers are not psychic. I think it's unfair to judge a buyer prematurely because they didn't address a breeder in the manner in which the breeder deems worthy.
> 
> Edited for typo.


Of course it's unfair. But it is what it is. So, _caveat emptor_.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

DanaRuns said:


> Of course it's unfair. But it is what it is. So, _caveat emptor_.



Ok. Buyer beware. Shouldn't the breeder take responsibility in letting their audience know what the breeder wants to know? Wouldn't it help alleviate some of these rash judgments if the breeders put a disclosure on their contact me or puppy pages? 

"Please send tell to inquire about available puppies. Please note that my animals are my livlihod/life/passion and therefore I am selective as to whom I respond. Please include information about yourself, your family, your home, and why you think one of our puppies would be a welcomed addition to your life."

Then if someone emails only asking about the price, the breeder has the clean conscious to delete the email. And if the person goes back to email again, they might read the actual disclaimer and see their mistake.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Unfortunately, some breeders aren't that astute. They just assume that you should know what to say. And, you know, some folks get into dogs because they are not very good with humans, so they may not have the social skills we might hope.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I totally agree with you. (I also agreed in your other post on the other group). I think it's extremely unfortunate how potential puppy buyers are treated by some breeders. There are certain things that tend to be important to puppy buyers, and the physical appearance of a puppy and price are usually two of them. I have no problem with someone asking about those things. In fact, I had someone who I really liked who didn't ask about price for some time, and then discovered once she asked that it was much more than she was expecting. So I appreciate getting that out of the way. 

I try to reply to every inquiry I receive with the information I *think* they are seeking. I tell the the timeline of what we are planning, the name of the parents of the litter and the k9data link, the price of the puppies from the litter, and what our procedures are for getting on our waitlist. I don't think it's that hard. I have a form I use and modify for each reply initially, which makes it easy.

I think the problem is that some long-time breeders get very jaded by puppy buyers. I recently had someone email me wanting a "white" golden. I explained to her that goldens are not "white" and why color, while it is fine to have a preference, should not be the primary consideration in choosing a puppy. When it came down to it, they had recently lost their darker gold boy and really just wanted a puppy that looked different than their sweet boy. It made sense to me.


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## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

When searching for a breeder I narrowed it down to two. I was still working and had access to data bases where I was able to do an in depth search on the two breeders. One had an impeccable background while the other was best described as "aloof." 
So I made my decision and down the road I acquired Deaglan from my first choice.
Prospective puppy buyers have to get rid of the mentality that "I hope I'm good enough for one of their puppies." 
Playing offense instead of defense is a formidable route to take.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

To answer a question above, I intentionally don't put our questionnaire on our website for a couple of reasons. First, I like it to take some effort to contact us. It sounds weird but I receive emails pretty regularly where they are addressed to a different name or talk of dogs we don't own (i.e. reference a specific breeding of dogs we don't own). So I like to make sure people are interested in us and our dogs before they are filling it out. Second, I don't send the questionnaire to everyone in my initial reply. With many people I can tell they are just starting the search process and want a better sense of their timing, etc. before I ask them to spend the time to fill out the questionnaire. I also don't have a ton of spare time, so I don't want to review a questionnaire and do a phone interview with people who are looking for a puppy yesterday. Sounds a little selfish but it's how I do it


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Brave said:


> If a particular person is looking for a particular way to be contacted, why not put out a contact form on their website? Or have a downloadable questionnaire that the potential puppy buyer can fill out and email to the breeders for consideration?
> 
> Buyers are not psychic. I think it's unfair to judge a buyer prematurely because they didn't address a breeder in the manner in which the breeder deems worthy.
> 
> Edited for typo.


I agree. I asked all the wrong questions as a first time puppy buyer/adopter three years ago, but I think I provide a good home for both my Goldens. I wanted a red (although I was open to all), but did specify red. Would I have loved any dog the same? Absolutely. I asked about the cost so that I could understand if I could actually afford to bring a puppy into my family and I put a budget together to walk my husband through it. I did buy from a BYB (didn't know it at the time because I didn't know what I was doing), and have spent a lot of money due to health issues on Duke. This is all before I found this forum and learned about all these different things and learned from having Duke. 

If breeders want specific information to determine if the family is a good pick for their puppies they could actually learn a lot from rescues. When I adopted Charlie, As Good as Gold had me fill out a long questionnaire which included questions about lifestyle, viewpoint on veterinary care, discipline and the role my golden would have in my family. They asked about the personalities of everybody in my house (including Duke), did a vet check and a home visit where everybody who lived at home at that time needed to be present. In addition, we had a meet and greet between Duke and Charlie at the Foster's home. If breeders followed a similar process upfront, I can only think it would help them pick the right family for their puppies.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

And yet there are people who complain bitterly about rescues and how difficult THEY are to work with. 

Be sure to watch exactly what you say and kowtow down to these elite breeders or else NO PUPPY FOR YOU! Reminds me of a SNL skit.

Seriously?


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Tennyson said:


> Prospective puppy buyers have to get rid of the mentality that "I hope I'm good enough for one of their puppies."
> Playing offense instead of defense is a formidable route to take.


To my mind, that's just as poor an attitude as some of the breeders have. It's not an adversarial process. You just have to understand where other people are coming from, and like all of life, be equipped to deal with odd traits and eccentricities.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Thank you, Goldenjackpuppy for your input. I appreciate your contribution.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

DanaRuns said:


> Ironically, this is the kind of breeder you're looking for. If you get a breeder who takes it in stride that all you want to know is the price, the color and whether the puppy is available now, you're dealing with a breeder who is in it for money and isn't working to make the best puppies possible and put them in the best homes they can. From such a breeder you're likely to get a poorly bred puppy, who may have serious, expensive and heartbreaking health or temperament problems later on. So, as infuriating and unfair as the process may seem, it's these judgmental breeders who will disregard the wrong kind of initial contact that you're actually looking for. They have the puppies you want. So, you have to be cautious and sophisticated, so that you don't immediately get excluded from consideration for something that seemed like a casual initial inquiry to you.
> 
> Be careful. It's a jungle out there!


You had me until here!! I think exactly what you said when I read the 'watch out' or 'what do I say to this' posts...that lead to instant hating on the poor guy who just asked a question in the best way he knew how. 
But not all good breeders react this way, post belittling 'watch out' posts, or neglect to answer a simple inquiry such as the one today on FB. Not all breeders who take it in stride are in it just for the bucks. I ALWAYS answer- I figure I have an opportunity to educate... even if puppies are too much, or too red, or too whatever in my litter, I can still have the ear of the puppy buyer long enough to tell them about Goldens, what tools to use to be selective in choice, and where there are litters I know of. I wish everyone who gets puppy inquiries would take the time to write up a puppy letter, one that can be changed as time goes by and you'd want to give current litter info but one that told how to research, what to red flag on, etc. I think we all owe it to the breed to answer politely every inquiry we get, and not with just 'I don't have puppies'. For every 100 inquiries, we may educate 10 of them who truly are trying to do the best job they can with their resources and not just looking for a puppy next week who has some color or none or a particular head type,etc.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

I am sure glad my breeder was not like that when I was asking about Titan. I already knew what sire I wanted my puppy to be sired from that was the easy part. I had not had a puppy in 10+ years and she took a chance! I had not purchased a puppy from a good breeder so one of my 1st questions was how much.. because no matter how much I wanted and loved the litter.. if I could not afford that litter it was wasting everyone's time.. so please don't be so quick to judge.. help educate!


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## Coopsmom (Jan 13, 2015)

this is a great post Dana as it provides some excellent suggestions about how to approach breeders. It's unfortunate that some have become "jaded" but that is probably related to their passion re: the breed and less than good experience with some puppy buyers. Our most recent breeder has a great website with a lot of information and a "puppy questionnaire" that she asks people to complete. She also takes a lot of time with puppy buyers. We have become friends so aside from my experience with her, I have been able to observe her WITH new puppy buyers and talking about potential buyers. She is ALWAYS respectful and kind in those discussions even when there are buyers she is unsure of and decides not sell to. I have a ton of respect and admiration for her integrity. I'd feel less so if she started to "bash" or "make fun of" buyers. I guess i expect Golden breeders to possess a Golden temperament!!


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Prism Goldens said:


> You had me until here!! I think exactly what you said when I read the 'watch out' or 'what do I say to this' posts...that lead to instant hating on the poor guy who just asked a question in the best way he knew how.
> But not all good breeders react this way, post belittling 'watch out' posts, or neglect to answer a simple inquiry such as the one today on FB. Not all breeders who take it in stride are in it just for the bucks. I ALWAYS answer- I figure I have an opportunity to educate... even if puppies are too much, or too red, or too whatever in my litter, I can still have the ear of the puppy buyer long enough to tell them about Goldens, what tools to use to be selective in choice, and where there are litters I know of. I wish everyone who gets puppy inquiries would take the time to write up a puppy letter, one that can be changed as time goes by and you'd want to give current litter info but one that told how to research, what to red flag on, etc. I think we all owe it to the breed to answer politely every inquiry we get, and not with just 'I don't have puppies'. For every 100 inquiries, we may educate 10 of them who truly are trying to do the best job they can with their resources and not just looking for a puppy next week who has some color or none or a particular head type,etc.


I think what I should have said is that you don't want a breeder who will sell you a puppy only on your inquiry about price and availability, and who does nothing more to find out if you're a good home. I'm very appreciated of, and have tons of respect for, breeders who, like you, take the time to educate puppy buyers whose first contact is less than stellar. I'm sure the crappy buyers reveal themselves in short order, so you don't waste time with people who are truly not appropriate. But I think most folks just don't understand, and appreciate being educated.

There are those buyers -- and a couple of them are here on this forum -- who just want the generic, plain wrap "Golden," and truly all they are concerned about is getting a dog right now, for the best price, as if they are buying a car or going to the hardware store. I imagine those folks reveal their nature early on, and can be discarded, while the good-hearted folks can be educated, even if you don't actually have a puppy for them.

I remember how horrible I thought crate training was. Lol!  I remember responding to a question about crate training saying I would NEVER do something so cruel! I was just uneducated, and am thankful someone took the time to educate me.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

I will add a thought that has been on my mind for a while. Getting a well bred dog is kind of like buying a house in a sellers market. If you want a good one, one everyone else wants, you have to stand out. With houses it is high offers, cash, or flexable terms. 

Those things don't work with breeders but it is I think important to understand that most litters have few or no puppies available when they are finally born. Breeders are inundated weekly, sometimes daily by people who want a puppy. You have to be aware so you are thinking about how you can stand out, how can you get above the clutter. 

It is easy to see the lack of response or a short, quick response and be outraged. But, think about this angle. If you have 30 inquires and 10 are short a few sentences 10 are more detailed but impersonal and 10 are nice detailed and unique. Where would you spend your time? Which homes are most attractive? 

Is that fair? No. Some people are not good with words on paper, some are not good on the phone. But as a breeder, one who likely works to support a hobby, how much time should they be expected to give up with their family and dogs to answer when 10 really great homes are so easily identified? 

It is really easy to be critical if you never think of the other side. I like Dana have been on both. Goldens were not the breed I originally wanted but NO breeder of my chosen breed would sell to me after a year and a half of trying to get my foot in the door. So, I can see both sides. I just ask everyone to try to do the same while acknowledging that this process is not about fair.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

The thing is price is important. If they are above your price range your wasting everyone's time. I have seen a few breeders who put the price right on there websites. It says firm and will not sell if you ask about price. This is ok because it clearly states the price and these conditions on their website. If that offends you then put that info on your website. To not even talk to someone is arrogant and stuckup. Some people have no clue what a well bred puppy cost. Everyone is told to do research but if they won't help educate how are you supposed to get info.

As far as coat color. We wanted something lighter then Jake. It was so soon that it would of been to hard to have one the same color.

Like I said if they are going to make it so hard to just get the convo started people will just go to a Byb. Chloe has not been sick once and is a happy puppy with the golden temperament you expect.


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## cram501 (Nov 16, 2014)

It's a two way street.

The breeder has to sell me on their dogs. I have to sell myself to the breeder on what I'll provide and that they have the dog I'm looking to adopt (color, price, licky-ness, etc... depending on the buyers desire.)

While looking for a dog I've contacted a number of breeders. I've run into some reputable breeders, referred here, that wouldn't even respond to queries or had really poor attitudes. They could have just been having a bad day(s) but I looked elsewhere. 

If they give me a poor impression, I'll look elsewhere. I can't blame them for doing the same with me.


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## Harleysmum (Aug 19, 2014)

Great thread Dana. Made me laugh and a great insight into human nature! We got our dog free to a good home on Gumtree (like Craig's list). He was advertised with a photo showing him interacting beautifully with a two year old boy. By the time I saw the ad there had been over 200 hits. I knew this dog was probably already rehomed. I rang the number and managed to get hold of the young girl rehoming him. She already had a "meet and greet" organised but I gave her all our information anyway. The next day she rang back and said she had changed her mind about the meet and greet and that she thought we would be a better fit. She said that all the other enquirers had asked negative questions "Does he bark, does he dig, does he counter-surf, eat shoes, etc etc. We had been rejected by rescue as we didn't have fences so I spent all my time telling her about our positives - We are retired and at home most of the time, our children have left home (we have a lot of excess love to give!), we have two and a half acres, we have a lake, we have wanted a golden all our lives, we can afford vet care etc. etc. She said we were the only ones that talked about what we had to offer the dog and that is why we got him. So this young lass who would have no doubt been roundly criticised on this forum for rehoming her dog via a newspaper ad probably had a little bit in common with these reputable breeders.


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## NewfieMom (Sep 8, 2013)

jennretz said:


> I agree. I asked all the wrong questions as a first time puppy buyer/adopter three years ago, but I think I provide a good home for both my Goldens. I wanted a red (although I was open to all), but did specify red. Would I have loved any dog the same? Absolutely.


This may sound like digression or a threadjack, but it is not. It is a metaphor for the same behavior and response in another part of life.

I have been a professional social worker for 22 years, but when I first applied to a graduate school of social work I was rejected. I knew it wasn't because of my grades or intelligence; I was coming from a Ph.D program in history!

It turned out that the committee read my essay and felt I had little concern for the poor, because I had written about psychotherapy.

In reality when I was younger I was very concerned with the poor...to the point where I made FDR look like Ronald Reagan. But I was not about to discuss politics in a school application! So the school had had no idea. All they knew was what I wrote about: psychotherapy. And I am a Freudian.

Once we spoke, the school admitted me. Later on I became a field instructor for another graduate school of social work as well. 

NewfieMom


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## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

jennretz said:


> I agree. I asked all the wrong questions as a first time puppy buyer/adopter three years ago, but I think I provide a good home for both my Goldens. I wanted a red (although I was open to all), but did specify red. Would I have loved any dog the same? Absolutely. I asked about the cost so that I could understand if I could actually afford to bring a puppy into my family and I put a budget together to walk my husband through it. I did buy from a BYB (didn't know it at the time because I didn't know what I was doing), and have spent a lot of money due to health issues on Duke. This is all before I found this forum and learned about all these different things and learned from having Duke.
> 
> If breeders want specific information to determine if the family is a good pick for their puppies they could actually learn a lot from rescues. When I adopted Charlie, As Good as Gold had me fill out a long questionnaire which included questions about lifestyle, viewpoint on veterinary care, discipline and the role my golden would have in my family. They asked about the personalities of everybody in my house (including Duke), did a vet check and a home visit where everybody who lived at home at that time needed to be present. In addition, we had a meet and greet between Duke and Charlie at the Foster's home. If breeders followed a similar process upfront, I can only think it would help them pick the right family for their puppies.


So I guess when I asked the breeder if she had any pups with one of those cute little knowledge bumps on their head I looked pretty dumb? Just kidding, I did not do that really.

But like Jen I asked a load of questions which may have seemed dumb to the breeder but which made good sense for me! And in spite of my line of questioning Buddy has found himself in the dream environment!

Having read this thread I think that "quality" Golden Retrievers are probably more readily available in UK than in USA? Is this possible? The dynamics of the breeding, selling, buying market seem so much different here?


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## Rumple’s Mom (Apr 1, 2015)

When I first emailed my breeder, I spent a week composing it and having a friend look it over before sending it lol. I was so nervous sending it off, felt like I was sending query letters to publishers (note: that is not a fun process). I had done research on this very thing, so knew what not to ask straight away (price, etc). Mainly I talked about myself and my family, why we wanted a golden, our lifestyle, our past dog experience, etc. Really, it was nerve wracking for me to send that first email as I didn't want to screw things up.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

When I got Brady, I sent probably ten e-mails out, and only got one response. Thank goodness it was from the breeder that I liked the best and had the best lines. The e-mail was pretty long explaining my previous history of dogs, breeds and how two were very long lived. Explained my household - children and cats, and that I was looking for a puppy about six months out. 

I am sure I asked for the price because I honestly did not know if a puppy from some of the best champions went for $500 or $5000. 

Her response to my e-mail was "e-mail too long, please call me". I called her and had a deposit in the mail the next day.

I have been learning a lot from Sailor's breeder, and I do not think she would treat any puppy buyer like that. She is VERY fussy about her buyers, and the puppy definitely has to match the buyer, but it is not done in a snobby way, it is because she wants to make sure the puppy fits the home.


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## Cookie's Mom (Oct 14, 2013)

This is the exact initial contact email I sent out to breeders when I was looking for a puppy after Cookie's passing. I always wondered how I came across to the breeders. I did get a response back from most of the breeders (1 or 2 did not respond back). What would you guys have thought after reading my email?

Hello,

My name is Sherri and I am interested in getting more information about your upcoming litters. I recently lost my beloved golden to osteosarcoma and feel that by December/January, I will be ready to open my heart up to another golden. If there is a chance, I would love to come to meet the golden parents to see if their temperament is well suited to my lifestyle. If you do not have any planned litters in the near future, would you have any recommendations for breeders in the southeastern Massachusetts/Rhode Island area? Thank you so much.

Sincerely,
Sherri 
(I had my telephone # here)

*If the breeder had a particular upcoming litter on the website, I would ask about that. In the only email where I asked about price, she told me what it was in the response and she was the breeder I ultimately went with. I'm so glad my asking about price did not turn her off! Maybe it helped that I asked about clearances and such in that particular email?


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## golden77 (Sep 5, 2012)

Being new here, I was hoping to maybe shed some light on the "novice" end of this. (Keeping in mind, I am here, and have been for a couple years trying to learn "best practice") ... 
I get that these goldens are your lives, and your babies. and well, I just said goodbye to one, and the impact he made on our family was huge. So I can understand why breeding and making sure puppies go to the appropriate homes are so important. 

I was kind of hoping to give you the other perspective.

My husband and I have children, we work as nurses so someone is always home. We have a house with an acre of a fenced in back yard. I used to work for the mspca. I am huge on adoption, and I despise anything that might be supportive of a puppy mill. 

I have been turned down by just about every rescue because I have children under age 6. 

We wanted to look into another golden years ago, but ours didn't want to share his space, and we respected that. After he passed, my five year old continued to bring his food out, thinking he would wake up soon. My 3 year old twins, continue to find a stray tennis ball in the yard and bring it to me, telling me they have "babas ball". 
These are some of the reasons that I personally have called every breeder in the area asking if they have available puppies/or an older golden they are looking to place. I don't mean to offend, and I don't ask about price. ( I don't want to sell a kidney but..) I have filled out a questionnaire or two. When you hear that a someone might have litter next year, its kind of heartbreaking. To hear that breeders might be talking about you, well thats kind of sad too. What do they think is driving people to go out and buy at a byb or a pet store? Its wrong, but they will give you time. I did have one breeder say to me, "why don't you come and meet me, and play with my current litter, get a puppy fix and we can talk". She acknowledged me. And that, is what has kept me from craigs list and the other immediate available pups. (and some really helpful people here) 
Please understand that there are some of us that just don't know the "rules"...... and the other thing, is don't they have the reputation of the best family dog ever? So Im guessing that Golden breeders probably attract a lot of families... so maybe just another perspective


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

I'm sorry you feel that way. Try not to look at it as sad. It's just...human.

I've had Goldens for 50 years, I currently have four, and I'm involved in conformation (2 of my current dogs are champions and one is now out as a special), agility, and am a newcomer to hunt/field (though we had hunting Goldens when I was young). And until maybe five years ago, my initial contact would have sounded like "Do you have puppies? How much are they?" I was a "pet dog" owner, unsophisticated in the nuances of negotiating the breeder labyrinth. And asking about color and price would have seemed the most natural of introductory questions, to me.

I think about all the people who post in those breeders' forums who wouldn't have even considered me for a puppy, based on the initial contact. They never would have found out what kind of home I provide. 

That just makes me so very thankful for those first breeders who didn't know me but who took the time to find out about me and trusted me with their puppies. They are out there! As for those breeders blowing people off: their loss! Too bad, so sad! LOL! 

Do not lose heart. Just be smart. You know, I wound up with my current champion show boy, Gibbs (left hand photo in my signature), because I was referred to the breeder by someone here, goldenjackpuppy, who had two dogs from that breeder. You never know where your "in" to the right breeder is going to come from.


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## Aiden's Mom (Aug 27, 2014)

DanaRuns said:


> I'm sorry you feel that way. Try not to look at it as sad. It's just...human.


It IS human, and it IS sad. 

Are the buyers who ask about price really the people who cannot provide for a golden? Are the buyers who ask about a certain color, does that mean their home is worse than another? This really gets to me, because I know so many loving families that would never formulate the "perfect" puppy application. Just because budget can be a concern for so many people, and that they have always had that "one color" of their dreams, does that automatically cut them out of the picture? Does that mean they should be refused a simple response and some education?

This is upsetting. I knew nothing about the dog breeding world when I got Aiden and seeing this topic I know I could have never been on a "champion breeder's" waiting list. It's sad because Aiden has 200+ acres of trials and farmland with a pool. He is in obedience, rally, and agility competitions/classes. I give him my everything and he is an absolute dream. Thankfully not all breeders are as described by this topic or I would never have a dog to share my love of life with. 

I guess this is why so many families look toward BYB's/puppy mills/pet shops? You can't expect people new to the dog world to know about their 4 clearances, parents' past activities, good breeding practices, etc. All they want is a loving companion and if they KNEW HOW they could help their favorite breed of dog, they would do just that.

Sigh. Just disappointed.


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

It has been a little while since I had any email looking for puppies but when I did it was overwhelming. Everyday I would get a few and this continued even a good month after the pups were gone because my info was left up on a breeder referral page. I emailed just about every one back with some sort of reply. Even if I didnt have puppies to educate them on what are area is like for prices, waiting for a breeder and what to look for in a good breeder. I got some replies back thanking me for taking the time to send them it. 

I personally don't mind someone asking price. Like someone else said, it will allow someone to more quickly decide if they can afford one now or if they may have to wait. Again, I educate them on why the price is what it is. I also tell them about us and ask them some questions but then I also tell them if they are still interested I will send them my questionnaire. That way I get a little idea of them before we talk on the phone or meet in person. Not everyone understands on the difference of the difference "types" of breeders. We have amish puppy mills around here, pet stores and lots of bybs. Those are more then norm than a good reputable hobby breeder. Most of my buyers are from out of state. 

When I was on the search for my first show golden I did not ask price in the first email but I already had an idea on prices for the area. I did ask at some point just so I knew how much I needed but was surprised it wasnt as much as I was prepared to spend. I didnt care about color per-say but I would have loved to get a darker one but now I cant imagine my life without my light golden girl Lilly. All goldens are beautiful in my eyes! But having a preference is not a bad thing! 

I think we need to educate more, be less arrogant and snobby...maybe hey be more like our lovely Goldens who love everyone and everything!! (Well most of the time!)


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## Pilgrim123 (Jul 26, 2014)

I find this thread very discouraging and extremely sad. My husband and I are on fixed incomes and therefore any expense has to be within budgetary limits. He is also from Scotland and needs to feel he is control of the finances. Because of this, we need to save to buy another dog. How on earth can we find out the cost unless we ask? And, as for the specious argument that we can't afford a dog if we have to ask, haven't breeders ever heard of pet insurance? I love my animals, have never let them go hungry or failed to provide vet care (I've done without a few things myself at times!) So, apparently, we're not "good" enough, according to the original post. Makes me want to cry for all us pet owners on finite budgets who love their goldies.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

golden77 said:


> I don't mean to offend, and I don't ask about price. ( I don't want to sell a kidney but..) I have filled out a questionnaire or two. When you hear that a someone might have litter next year, its kind of heartbreaking. To hear that breeders might be talking about you, well thats kind of sad too. What do they think is driving people to go out and buy at a byb or a pet store? Its wrong, but they will give you time. I did have one breeder say to me, "why don't you come and meet me, and play with my current litter, get a puppy fix and we can talk". She acknowledged me. And that, is what has kept me from craigs list and the other immediate available pups.


This part of this particular post touches on something else I think it is important for puppy buyer to keep in mind. 

Do reputable breeders what everyone to have a well bred puppy? Of course. Is it their responsibility to do so? No and honestly thank goodness. 

There is a much sadder circumstance in buying a puppy than any of the normal human weaknesses. It is the simple fact that there are never and I mean NEVER enough wellbred puppies for the number of people looking. That is one major fact that keeps mills and BYBs in business. 

It is not the job or intent of the good/great breeders to make puppies for buyers. They are breeding with the thought and hope to keep something for themselves. Sure sometimes it does not work out, their dream puppy just did not turn up and a whole litter is placed in to pet homes. But think if you are a breeder looking to potentially keep a puppy out of every litter you have, how many litters can that be? The number varies from person to person and situation to situation but it certainly is not the number of litters that would have to be produced to meet demand. It is not any breeders' responsibility or fault that someone else decided to support a BYB or mill. 

As I said before this is a process where fair has very little importance. 
We can bemoan that fact or we can use the information and make a positive impact. 

I for one see this forum as a great positive step forward for puppy buyers. The information on this thread is not "new". It has been in many threads before and it will be in many threads in the future. Think of the days when we did not have the ability is research so readily. Now, people who are willing to put in some self education/research time, can find just about everything they need right online before even contacting a breeder. 

How many threads pop-up each week where members here give education links and also price ranges for the posters area? Interested in a particular color or look? A quick look at the breeders website or K9data will likely tell you all you need to know about color ranges and looks. Sure there are some breeders who don't have websites but buyers can be sooo much further ahead than back in the day.

Yeah, the technology can be a double edged sword because yes, like any other group of people gossip happens and now it is online. The thread Dana mentioned, I simply interpreted as a steam blow off and those type of Facebook posts are not unique to breeders. It is not very common that I see a true names mentioned, warning post and those that I have the poster included pretty compelling information that had nothing to do with normal newbie questions like price, color and availability.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

I did not want to start anything with my earlier post. I want to give information on my 1st search for a puppy with a top breeder. I emailed her and asked information on her upcoming litters.. about a week later she sent me this large puppy packet about the upcoming litters.. I was completely blown away as it had every thing you needed. clearances, pictures of mom and sire and what she expected out of the litter..BUT.. as I was got more excited I read on the final page her price for the puppies.. $2800 and that was over 11 years ago.. While she was a top notch breeder ...I work hard for my money and I thought saving 1000.00 would be enough.. She was upset at me for awhile because I did not ask up front for her price..years later we can laugh about it now..So when Titan's breeder responded to my price question with a couple of questions of her own. I told her the truth about what had happened on the last search and I did not want to waste her time, we also talked about what I was looking for in a puppy..My dream puppy...and I told her my dreams ... that litter did not take and when she offered on the next litter I told her no.. I wanted to wait for an Apollo puppy.. she said she was planning on trying one more time and she would keep me on the list just in case.. well out of the blue a year or so later she emailed that the puppies were here and asked if my plans were the same..told me she had a little stinker that was everything I dreamed up.. She said I ordered him up special and I guess I did because he is my heart dog.. .. so I guess what I am trying to say.. when you find the right breeder for you things just fall into place..hang in there and do not few color the rest of the breeders.. there are some very very nice informative breeders out there willing to help you when they can just remember they have lives too and with puppies,kids,jobs...families..


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

LJack said:


> I will add a thought that has been on my mind for a while. Getting a well bred dog is kind of like buying a house in a sellers market. If you want a good one, one everyone else wants, you have to stand out. With houses it is high offers, cash, or flexable terms.
> 
> Those things don't work with breeders but it is I think important to understand that most litters have few or no puppies available when they are finally born. Breeders are inundated weekly, sometimes daily by people who want a puppy. You have to be aware so you are thinking about how you can stand out, how can you get above the clutter.
> 
> ...


This post resonates with me. Breeding is stressful and time-intensive. There can be 9 pups on ultrasound that are reabsorbed and one is born; there can be whelping night disasters. Some good breeders do not want to get people's hopes up until they see what they have to give when the pups are healthy and thriving. Complicatitng this is waiting to see which are show pups and which pets. If you have 6 pups , 10 show home inquiries, and hundreds of pet homes inquiring, and you are planning to keep a puppy, it is lots of pressure. I find it very hard to deal with the sheer volume of email and phone calls while dong everything else I need to do with 6 dogs and a full time small business with clients who also call. I treasure the puppy homes once I can see who clicks and who is likeminded and wants a pup for the right reasons. The process of responding to 100s of emails is intimidating to me.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

I have always been an advocate of ethical and responsible breeders. Always. But there is nothing ethical about dragging a person's name through the mud to other breeders and letting them know that this person should never be sold a puppy. I don't care who the breeder is. 

It's not fair to do that to someone who just doesn't know any better. Are we back in grade school? What happened to education? I will never think about breeders the same way again...at least Golden breeders. Never...

I've gone back and forth for years whether my next Golden will be from a breeder or a rescue. I think this thread just made that decision for me...


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

golden77 said:


> I have been turned down by just about every rescue because I have children under age 6.
> 
> We wanted to look into another golden years ago, but ours didn't want to share his space, and we respected that. After he passed, my five year old continued to bring his food out, thinking he would wake up soon. My 3 year old twins, continue to find a stray tennis ball in the yard and bring it to me, telling me they have "babas ball".


Your story really melted my heart. I feel for your loss and your children's loss. I hope that you find a new golden retriever soon; not to replace your "babas", but to help mend.


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## MommyMe (Jan 20, 2014)

I've been thinking about this thread since yesterday, and as a buyer (which is all I will ever hope to be) it is disheartening. However, at the end of the day, a breeder isn't required to respond to every inquiry they receive, nor it is their responsibility to educate someone who may be "doing it wrong". It is up to a puppy buyer to do their research in choosing a breed that works well for them and their family and then to find a breeder that can help match those needs. One would think (hope) that after doing all that research, they would do more than send a couple of sentences to a breeder to get the wheels in motion. We aren't talking about buying someone's used tires on Craigslist, we are talking about a family member. I guess in this situation, I'll be thankful I decided to be an "over sharer". ;-)

The pill that is kind of hard for me to swallow is the idea that a breeder could/would blackball a potential buyer simply because they didn't care for their initial contact. If you didn't like Joe Schmo's email to you, then fine, don't respond. Seems that people could do worse than ask about color and price (which seems to be changing constantly). But to blackball him completely seems a bit extreme. The GR world seems very hard to bust into without that cloud hanging over you.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

But that's just it...most people don't know about researching a breed or it's breeders, let alone how to go about it. Many, many of my customers who absolutely adore their dogs and give them very loving homes, are clueless about researching breeders.

I always do my best to inform them and put them on the right track, if given the opportunity, but not everyone even knows to ask. Seriously, if any of these people wrote a breeder, they would probably do what you're not supposed to do. And these people would be phenomenal homes. So they make a mistake and suddenly they're on some sort of "hit list"? That's crazy!

I agree about not having to respond to all inquires, but leave it at that. Don't destroy someone's name in other breeders' eyes just because they didn't say the right things in their initial contact. That's not fair, IMO.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

I just want to clarify. I saw the post mentioned on FB & like others, I really felt the breeder was just blowing steam, posting in jest. The individual's name who made the inquiry was not posted. In fact, several people had rec'd the exact same inquiry. 

I know I've joked about similar things with rescue, where someone's want list made it seem like I could just pull a rescue that the met the criteria off the shelf as if it was ready & waiting and if you couldn't meet their specifications, they wanted to know exactly when you could. Some of the volunteers might blow the person off, others like myself try to educate. Same goes with breeders.

The only time I have seen an actual name (first, last) was recently & it was an individual that wasn't being truthful with their intentions & it was very easy to see what this person was trying to do as this person was making the rounds with various breeders. The name mentioning was done to protect the dogs. Any other time, it's a hey if you get an inquiry from Johnny from so & so town, let me know, I have some info that may be helpful. Any puppy buyer who is on the up & up needn't worry. However, if you're flipping pups, looking to break contract terms (i.e. breeding) or keep having the family dogs run over, then yeah, you're probably going to be talked about. The same is true with rescues, they have their own "do not adopt" lists. At the end of the day, it's about the dogs.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

DanaRuns said:


> So be careful what you say in your initial contact. Think about what the breeder wants to hear, not what you care about. They have to like you before they will even think about dating you. Dog breeders are part of a very small and tightly knit community (though they stab each other in the backs regularly, too), and if you make a bad impression in your first contact attempt, you may find yourself "blackballed" for no reason other than you said the wrong thing in a first email.
> 
> If you've sent emails to several breeders, and you're not getting any responses, you may be a victim of this group disapproval. What sometimes happens is that the first breeder won't even bother writing or calling you back, but will go online and email all her friends to warn everyone that you're not someone they want to waste their time with. And it can happen arbitrarily and without you ever knowing.


I don't care whether that particular post mentioned names or not. From the quote above, it's pretty obvious that it's happened other times...and that is not acceptable to me...ever. To not even know what you've done wrong and then be ignored by breeders that you are trying to contact is just really mean and says a lot about those involved. I can't wrap my head around this...


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## SwimDog (Sep 28, 2014)

This was not a good thread to read a few minutes after sending an inquiry! Most of my inquiries in the past have been quite short because I want to get to the point and ask questions and be respectful of that persons time.

The person I contacted is very, very busy. I only wrote a few sentences about me and what I want - and then a few questions. I didn't want to write a lot and potentially waste his/her time (or get my hopes up!) if some of the logistical pieces weren't going to work out.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Okay....
I think this needs some clarification.

*The face book post that was the impetus for this thread never mentioned a name at all. *

I am getting the impression because this happens elswhere that the assumption is the post looked something like this: 
"Hey every breeder I know. Don't sell to John Doe, he asked about price and color, so no one should sell him a puppy. Based on these two questions it is my descion he should never have a dog". Let me assure you it looked *nothing* like that. 

There are about 35 post and how many say they would not write back or simply say no? 6. And a few explained based on the particular wording they are afraid of scammers. 

There is not, that I have ever seen an issue with breeders posting a name and saying don't sell to this person because they asked about price or color. 

Sure breeders (and any similar friend group) fuss, moan, commiserate and gossip like any other group of people. Is that sucky? Yes, but I think we are all guilty of that. Never had a bad day at work or with life and make a cranky post?

Posts and or discussions where I have seen/heard names have been a legitimate item of consern. Things like indicating they want to breed a pet dog, hiding information, getting on every possible waiting list (without disclosing) and/or lies. These are things people should worry about getting black balled for not price and color.

Sure being ignorant (not an insult but the true definition of the word as in lacking knowledge) of the finer points of first contact could cost you a solid "look" from a breeder but it is highly unlikely to get your name spread across the face of the earth.

Is it good to know that breeders talk to each other? Yes. It means that puppy buyers should be honest and not get on to several lists with out communicating that. Even better though, it means that if a breeder likes what you have to offer and they don't have a puppy for you they will really try to go through their friends and aquaintances to get you on a good litter list. 

It is not all doom and gloom. If you want to paint all reputable breeders by the response of so few that you never even read, well then that is up to you.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

kwhit said:


> I don't care whether that particular post mentioned names or not. From the quote above, it's pretty obvious that it's happened other times...and that is not acceptable to me...ever. To not even know what you've done wrong and then be ignored by breeders that you are trying to contact is just really mean and says a lot about those involved. I can't wrap my head around this...


People show their true colors & what works one doesn't work for another. I know in my puppy search, I intentionally avoided one breeder based on how they acted online. 

And there are rescues that do the same thing...no one is perfect. I know I turned off one family to a golden rescue since I didn't allow them to adopt my foster, they showed up to the adoption day without an appointment, I had no who clue they are, but they singled out my boy cause he was light colored & handsome, didn't care to learn anything about him, just liked his looks. I had friends in an obedience class with this person & years later they still say they would never adopt from rescue x & named me as the reason why. While I feel bad as they would have made a capable home for a rescue, I don't regret the decision I made for Dakota.

I think we're reading a lot into a post with no info or insight into the people were making assumptions about.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

I know you can't paint all breeders in this light and I'm in the wrong if I came across that way, (I know I did), but this thread really rubbed me the wrong way. It brought up things that I never thought would ever be the case. It makes me feel better knowing that only six said they wouldn't write back.

But I would love to know those breeders that have posted someone's name online for not writing what they believe to be a "proper" inquiry. I wouldn't look twice at their dogs, no matter how wonderful they are.

And please let me clarify that if they knew someone to be an irresponsible dog owner, or worse, then by all means put the word out. But not if they happen to say the wrong thing because of being unaware. I still feel that's unfair...


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## Chritty (Aug 17, 2014)

How is someone meant to know how to word an email to a breeder without any education? This all just screams elitism and self righteousness to me


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

KWhit I get it where you are coming from and yes this process is far from fair for the buyers. Because it needs to be fair to the dogs first. 

Honestly, I have never seen a name attached to something that was not a real consern.

I know it rubs against your sense of fair play that people are not told their names are being shared but, honestly in situations when names should be shared, it is nessasary to not tell them. Telling them, would educate them on how to hide the bad stuff and get a puppy when they should not. I am talking about lies, wanting to breed or make doodles, etc.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Chritty said:


> How is someone meant to know how to word an email to a breeder without any education? This all just screams elitism and self righteousness to me


I am sure it does if you don't think about your target audience. 

Any written communication is a challenge because you loose body language, tone of voice, and inflection. So, anyone regardless of knowledge of puppy buyer etiquette (which is pretty easy to find a version of online) simply needs to think about putting themselves in their audiences (breeder) shoes. Think about in terms of, "if I had a puppy what would I want to know about the person I would give this dog to" and go from there. I really don't think you are likely to go wrong if you do that.

By the way other than the 6 non-responders, the rest of that thread was a bunch of posts about educating people or taking the time to atleast ask a few questions of the puppy shopper. So, I see that as a very good thing. Perhaps those 6 are considering the other responses and might make a change.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

And it should absolutely be about the dogs. And if someone is a threat to the dogs and their well-being, then, as I stated in my previous post, their name should be put up in neon lights and shared with every breeder possible. 

But a person's name doesn't need to be shared with other breeders as someone deemed unworthy if they just happen to ask about color or price in their initial inquiry, does it? And that's exactly what I took away from the original post.

I'm happy to hear that some of the posts were about educating and finding out more about the person. And, yes...hopefully those other six may consider other options in the future.


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## Pilgrim123 (Jul 26, 2014)

When I first researched golden retrievers, I looked at bllodlines, health, longevity and personalities of the dogs from various breeders. It never crossed my mind that there was a "puppy buyer etiquette (which is pretty easy to find a version of online)" In fact, until this post, I would still be blissfully unaware of the self-righteous judgement of some breeders. I give up. Take me off this forum. I'll love my dogs in private.


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## Chritty (Aug 17, 2014)

LJack said:


> I am sure it does if you don't think about your target audience.
> 
> Any written communication is a challenge because you loose body language, tone of voice, and inflection. So, anyone regardless of knowledge of puppy buyer etiquette (which is pretty easy to find a version of online) simply needs to think about putting themselves in their audiences (breeder) shoes. Think about in terms of, "if I had a puppy what would I want to know about the person I would give this dog to" and go from there. I really think you are likely to go wrong if you do that.



Assume that I'm a first time puppy buyer (which we were) and I'm not aware of the need to search for puppy buyer etiquette (which we weren't). 

A breeder has/will have a litter and advertises this on their website. They have a contact section on their website. In no way, shape or form would I consider writing a novella on my first contact. 

I'm not referring to this one particular example but rather to the whole idea of it that DanaRuns outlines in her first few posts.

ETA: knowing this now I would be happy that those mean spirited people would not contact me. And I'm glad that there are those that would seek to educate


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## kayakhappy (Jul 16, 2015)

This makes me sad. I could totally be blacklisted and not even know it since I asked about a red girl? My childhood golden Zoey was the sweetest girl and made me love this breed. She was a redhead and whenever I see one they tug at my heart strings. I love being reminded of her. I think that is a great reason to hope for a redhead. It is very hard being a first time buyer and learning all the ins and outs of a world we are new to. We just want a furry family member to love! I hope breeders will give us the benefit of the doubt. We would love any golden dearly!


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## Harleysmum (Aug 19, 2014)

kayakhappy said:


> This makes me sad. I could totally be blacklisted and not even know it since I asked about a red girl? My childhood golden Zoey was the sweetest girl and made me love this breed. She was a redhead and whenever I see one they tug at my heart strings. I love being reminded of her. I think that is a great reason to hope for a redhead. It is very hard being a first time buyer and learning all the ins and outs of a world we are new to. We just want a furry family member to love! I hope breeders will give us the benefit of the doubt. We would love any golden dearly!


You would probably be alright asking about a red girl. It is asking about light colours that seems to rile everybody up!


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## glenwoodswoman (Oct 11, 2011)

While I agree on the "designer dog" request of color etc, I do not think it unreasonable to inquire about price very early in the contact. It would be heartbreaking to decide on a puppy and then find out that it is way beyond your price range. Not everyone can afford a $2000 puppy. That should not be offensive to a breeder, as I am sure that they would also like to know in advance on whether or not the prospective puppy buyer understands the investment. To me, this is similar to qualifying up front for a mortgage or a car. Let's find out where we financially. While this may seem cold and calculating and maybe offensive to some breeders, it makes good sense to me. 
I am about to embark on a puppy search as I just lost my beautiful soul dog Madison. I have several breeders in mind with whom I will check in and, since I am now retired, will have to ask THAT question, so I know how much I need to save before I can bring home my new zen dog.


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## bethlehemgolden (Aug 2, 2014)

glenwoodswoman said:


> I do not think it unreasonable to inquire about price very early in the contact. It would be heartbreaking to decide on a puppy and then find out that it is way beyond your price range. Not everyone can afford a $2000 puppy. That should not be offensive to a breeder, as I am sure that they would also like to know in advance on whether or not the prospective puppy buyer understands the investment.


I completely understand and agree. I could not afford a $2k + Dog. 
I also wish that the breeders would ask their puppy buyers to call and get the cost for the 1 year shot and office visit prices. I did that which is how I found out to not go with a $2k dog. I also spent the money saved on my pup and paid a trainer.

As far as the color goes, I wanted to avoid the "red/red". I meet my breeder at a show and spoke to her about these issues. I didn't talk to her via e-mail, maybe that was why I wasn't brushed off.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

This thread is totally bumming me out.:--sad:
I believe Dana's idea was to create awareness and help people. I have tried to add clarifications here and there because I believe people are taking away more negativity from it than there really is.

If you believe that breeders are going to black ball you for even emailing anything, I guess you just should not. If you never do any research before making any unusual/important/large purchase, than I guess you should not. In all honesty choosing to believe there is no hope for getting a well bred puppy or that all breeders behave this way only hurts the person thinking that. Interesting how the thread is titled "breeders snap judgements" when the snaps I see are deciding all breeders behave this way.

I also find the fact that the sentiment "People would never know about etiquette" sad and amusing at the same time as these are post on a thread about with advise about etiquette.

Breeders are human beings...as with all human beings some are nice, some are not, some are having a good day, some are having a bad day, some are freindly, some are jaded, some have free time, some are always pressed for time, some are rigid in their expectations, so more forgiving, some like to educate, some do not. 

In the end people will believe what they want to believe. So, ugh I give up.:gotme:


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## Coopsmom (Jan 13, 2015)

I think inquiring about price at the first contact might be seen as similar to asking about salary at the beginning of a job interview. I know it's not exactly the same but what IS similar is this: 1)both parties are trying to evaluate whether it's a good "fit", 2)both parties are evaluating the competence of one another, 3)both parties have a long term stake in whether the "transaction" happens, 4)both parties may have been "burned" before because of a "bad fit".
When we purchased our last dog, we started with emails, progressed to a phone call and then a visit. Our breeder does want to meet anyone she sells to who is local and along the way, she is evaluating whether everything is a good fit. During our first visit, we did not raise the issue of cost. The breeder brought it up toward the end of our visit.
Does cost matter? YES! it's important in terms of being able to purchase a dog, but it's also important in terms of how educated puppy buyers are re: ongoing costs (food, vet care, etc). Well bred Goldens aren't cheap and the annual cost of care requires a fair amount of money. I imagine that a breeder MIGHT be concerned if a potential buyer has not considered all of the longer terms factors in owning a dog.


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## NewfieMom (Sep 8, 2013)

Harleysmum said:


> You would probably be alright asking about a red girl. It is asking about light colours that seems to rile everybody up!


I just saw this. I wanted a red girl, too. Why on earth can't I want one? When I adopted a dog, I took a dog from among the dogs who needed a home. But if I going to a breeder, am I not going to a breeder who has dogs that I like?

PS-I came to love, not just like, my rescue/adoptee. But he was the one who bit everyone who came on our front porch. He cost us a lot of money in fines and quarantine fees and obedience training. He was *not* an easy boy!!!

NewfieMom, who went to a breeder who had Newfoundlands!!!


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

When searching for my last 2 breeders I wrote up a little bio about us, our home and work, and how our dogs live. I included pictures. It took a little time but I used it for many breeders this last time around and it swung the doors wide open.


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## Chritty (Aug 17, 2014)

LJack said:


> This thread it totally bumming me out.:--sad:
> I believe Dana's idea was to create awareness and help people. I have tried to add clarifications here and there because I believe people are taking away more negativity from it than there really is.
> 
> If you believe that breeders are going to black ball you for even emailing anything, I guess you just should not. If you never do any research before making any unusual/important/large purchase, than I guess you should not. In all honesty choosing to believe there is no hope for getting a well bred puppy or that all breeders behave this way only hurts the person thinking that. Interesting how the thread is titled "breeders snap judgements" when the snaps I see are deciding all breeders behave this way.
> ...



I feel you maybe taking it the wrong way yourself. I don't think people are deciding that every breeder behaves this way. It's just shocking to hear that some do behave in appalling and petty ways from the other side of the fence. They're breeders, not holier than thou. 

The depth that you are involved in the breed, dogs and showing may be making it hard for you to see the "pet buyers" perspective.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Chritty said:


> The depth that you are involved in the breed, dogs and showing may be making it hard for you to see the "pet buyers" perspective.


I don't think so but you are welcome to your opinion. I have been a pet buyer several times and a buyer looking for a show dog with out any success for over a year and a half. So I well remember the feeling of disillusionment, frustration and bewilderment. 

Can I see the other side better now? Absolutely, but when ever I have shared those things on this particular thread people still seem to choose to take a doom and gloom view and make broad sweeping comments that seem to indicate a set oppinion about all breeders. 

I know what I am saying is not going to change minds who were already decided which is why I said I am done with adding more new information to this thread.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

One way to avoid this "problem" is to get to know breeders. There are breeders on this forum, why not get to know them? (Maybe you already have.) Even if they are not in your area, when you're ready for a puppy they might be able to refer you to someone they know. A referral, as I mentioned before, is a fantastic "in," and the breeder would already feel good about you after hearing, "Hey, ______ is looking for a puppy, she is someone I know from the GRF and is educated and seems like she would be a good home, so I'm sending her your way."

Also, there are Golden groups on Facebook you can join. Two offhand that might be welcoming are Golden Retriever Litter Listings and Golden Retriever Discussions On Anything. Go to a dog show in your area and talk to people sitting ringside. The people around the ring are people with dogs in the ring. They are either breeders or people who know breeders.

You don't have to begin your search with a 14-word email. You can get a leg up on those who do. I just tried to caution folks about a common _faux pas_, not drive you into despair. Good grief. Look at what Ihowemt wrote three posts above this one, that's the message you should take from this thread. And what Laura says is absolutely correct. So put down that bottle of pills and just do things right, understanding that breeders are a tight community, they gossip among each other, and just like every other area of life some of them are jaded and/or petty. While that thread may have had 6 people who said they wouldn't sell a puppy to the inquirer (I actually counted 10 plus the OP), as has been mentioned there were plenty of people taking them to task for such proclamations.

And besides, once you're in, you're in. For instance, I will never have to cold call/email a breeder ever again. Either I already know the breeder whose puppy I'm interested in, or I know her friends. If you're into Goldens enough to be posting regularly in this forum, you're interested enough to be interesting to the many breeders out there, who love to talk about Goldens just as much as you do.


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## Chritty (Aug 17, 2014)

DanaRuns said:


> There are breeders on this forum, why not get to know them?



This to me is not thinking like a first time puppy owner. Who knew that there was a forum dedicated to Goldens? I certainly didn't. Not every prospective buyer is going to go online and talk to people months on end before purchasing. So how do you educate those people that you can't even reach? And why would you condemn them for not following imaginary rules?


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## Chritty (Aug 17, 2014)

LJack said:


> I don't think so but you are welcome to your opinion.



I should have put a question mark at the end of that. It was not intended as a definitive statement.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

My perspective 

I do performance events and that is my focus - both for breeding and bringing a dog into my heart and home.

For performance homes, color will rarely play a huge role - yes, we all have our favorites looks but the puppy's temperament, attitude and structure weigh more heavily.

For conformation homes (I am guessing here so could be way off base), the structure and attitude take precedence over color, but either very light or very dark and/or red would not be first pick other qualities being equal; this would obviously change if a very light or dark pup had outstanding potential.

For companion homes, activity levels and temperaments need to be weighed for what the prospective owners are looking for. A red puppy that shows promise of high activity levels and a need to keep busy would not be well suited to many companion homes - so again the color preference would need to take on a lesser importance.

That said, if you are (for example) an active companion home, if several of the puppies test as being a good match and one happens to be your preferred color (looking at the ears on pups), or if you want a quiet dog for companionship and perhaps therapy work and several of the pups test as being a good match ...... well certainly your color preferences come into play 

I think the bulk of the objections over stating a color preference may be because the breeder looks at the other qualities first. 

As an example; with my Faelan's litter there was an active red boy that I kind of had a yearning for and honestly, most people who know me thought for sure would be the pup coming into my home and being named Raouri. He was not. He showed a level of independence that I have first hand knowledge of . He is very happy and doing great in a hunt home. I picked perhaps the lightest male ... now known as Aedan and a dream puppy! For me. Placing color preferences above temperament (both puppies are sound) could possibly have led 2 puppies into homes that may not have been best fits. Good fits yes, Best fits, possibly not.

So state your color preferences, but probably not first - maybe in almost an offhand way -- perhaps something like ..... I'd like an active companion, not too independent but not underfoot either, able to live with young children (if you have children this is important!! critical in fact to mention this). I like red boys, but the other qualities are more important to me. 




NewfieMom said:


> I just saw this. I wanted a red girl, too. Why on earth can't I want one? When I adopted a dog, I took a dog from among the dogs who needed a home. But if I going to a breeder, am I not going to a breeder who has dogs that I like?
> 
> PS-I came to love, not just like, my rescue/adoptee. But he was the one who bit everyone who came on our front porch. He cost us a lot of money in fines and quarantine fees and obedience training. He was *not* an easy boy!!!
> 
> NewfieMom, who went to a breeder who had Newfoundlands!!!


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Chritty said:


> This to me is not thinking like a first time puppy owner. Who knew that there was a forum dedicated to Goldens? I certainly didn't. Not every prospective buyer is going to go online and talk to people months on end before purchasing. So how do you educate those people that you can't even reach? And why would you condemn them for not following imaginary rules?


1. I don't care to educate those folks, I'm only trying to educate the people who come here.

2. Note that I haven't condemned anyone, and if you think so it's what you're projecting, not what I am saying.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Growing up in a dog/horse family, I looked at our breeder as an authority figure with a high level of expertise. To me, our dogs' breeder had the same cachet as the principal at school, the president etc. I knew our breeder had to have many more credentials than we did as regular owners- hours in the whelping box, titles, knowledge of food and medicine beyond ours. I never was taught to have a consumer mentality about puppies or feel entitled to get one- it was more an awe I had for the breeder as a kid that I remember, and a respect for her authority. 

Fastforwarding through several decades, I have learned more about how much danger to the mama dog comes with the whelping date, the joy of it and the frequent losses and sorrows too. 

I read the breeders who are less patient with inquries as experienced in war-torn moments of grief, miracle moments of a puppy's first breath, in making a poor placement and having to live with that, in making a perfect placement and feeling the sweetness of that. . .
It is very high stakes to place a precious pup in the right home; it is hard to get a read on total strangers. The two juxtaposed ideas can make breeders have plenty of anxiety in trying to sort through 350 inquiries for 6 pups.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Cookie's Mom said:


> This is the exact initial contact email I sent out to breeders when I was looking for a puppy after Cookie's passing. I always wondered how I came across to the breeders. I did get a response back from most of the breeders (1 or 2 did not respond back). What would you guys have thought after reading my email?
> 
> Hello,
> 
> ...


That is such a sane and sincere sounding email. It is levelheaded and shows you already had a golden, it forms a common bond bc so many of us have lost our old folks, and it shows an appreciation for the fact that litters are planned not always at the right time. . . great letter.


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

I think we all have snap judgements. If I were a breeder for instance and got a sentence or two type reply in a email asking how much and what color the dogs would be it would certainly go in the trash.

If a person gave a background to explain why they put forth those questions I would have a completely different attitude.

A articulate discussion via email at first would be important to me. If they drive up in a rotted of Chevy and stumble out of the van half cocked then I would say all the pups have homes, sorry.

I know a few breeders, they don't take deposits until the meet and greet.

The problem therein is the best person might not get a pup due to text. The worst sly one could. I know of pups returned from idiots for instance that were supposedly good future owners over what amounted to nothing. Minor murmur or it bites me BS.

Great breeders rarely make a dime from what they do and let go part of their heart and soul when they sell a pup.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Pilgrim123 said:


> I find this thread very discouraging and extremely sad. My husband and I are on fixed incomes and therefore any expense has to be within budgetary limits. He is also from Scotland and needs to feel he is control of the finances. Because of this, we need to save to buy another dog. How on earth can we find out the cost unless we ask? And, as for the specious argument that we can't afford a dog if we have to ask, haven't breeders ever heard of pet insurance? I love my animals, have never let them go hungry or failed to provide vet care (I've done without a few things myself at times!) So, apparently, we're not "good" enough, according to the original post. Makes me want to cry for all us pet owners on finite budgets who love their goldies.


I sell my pups for less than many backyard breeders in my area even though they have more clearances and credentials for that reason- I dont want to price out the best homes. It upsets me when I see the price of untitled goldens with no health clearances at 2220 or 2250 and one of the best breeders in the country in a neighboring state to mine sells hers for 1500K with decades of tremendous clearances, titles, and longevity. I placed a healthy pretty pup for free with a great family I loved, and another with a friend I made on this very forum. I am not out to make money( I have a job but it is not breeding), and literally all I care about is that the pup has a life of love the way I love my Tally dog . I would rather give a pup for free to a tremendous home than sell one for 10,0000 to a poor choice of a home. Where the rubber meets the road is how to judge/ ascertain this from emails, phone calls, or even one or two visits.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I was reading the last couple pages of posts... and this led me to go back to the first page to understand better what people were all atwitter about. Maybe it's best to respond to the OP then...



> Someone will post an email from a potential puppy buyer inquiring about puppies, and everyone will mock and ridicule that puppy buyer.


 Because it seems not everyone has access to some of the private groups which the OP is alluding to... I think it's probably pertinent to point out two different things. 

1. I could be wrong, but the post that the OP is alluding to has been removed. Probably because of this conversation here. Um. Just fyi - people don't operate in a vacuum. And a lot of people see what is posted here. 

2. Sometimes the imagination is worse than reality. Meaning that I would wager that if I were not a member of those same groups, I probably would be assuming it's a bash-fest over there and these conversations are just all breeders yacking about stupid pet people. It's not always the case though. These conversations do not come up very often... and generally when they do, it's more serious than people price shopping puppies, looking for English cremes, etc...


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I recommend everybody looking for a golden puppy either now or in the future, to join their local golden retriever club. I have done that, met some great people - breeders, show people, performance people and pet people. We even have board members that don't own goldens, but other breeds such as giant poodles and German shepherds so they can be active in our agility and obedience events.

Because I joined my club, I now my Sailor. I did not even go looking for her, she found me.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Unfortunately many golden breeders have this reputation. Arrogant.
I have experienced this myself while trying to help a friend look for a pet golden. She lost her golden at almost 15. After many attempts with "reputable" goldens she got her golden from a BYB. She got tired of being put down or not responded to. She has actually vowed to never ever deal with the ones that call themselves reputable but feel so free to be arrogant towards her and her family. After seeing similar FB posts I have actually removed myself from those groups. 

Really, do they think that price is not a factor? Do they think that the temperament of the mother and the other dogs they own does not matter? Do they think they can only ask questions but answer none?


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

cubbysan said:


> I recommend everybody looking for a golden puppy either now or in the future, to join their local golden retriever club. I have done that, met some great people - breeders, show people, performance people and pet people. We even have board members that don't own goldens, but other breeds such as giant poodles and German shepherds so they can be active in our agility and obedience events.
> 
> Because I joined my club, I now my Sailor. I did not even go looking for her, she found me.


Absolutely! I joined my club, volunteered at various events (conformation, field & obedience) & glued myself to anyone who would share with me their thoughts. It was through those experiences, that I was able to figure out what I actually wanted in a pup & then to have the help in understanding pedigrees that had the best chance of delivering that. While inquiring about one litter, I was referred to another. I found a wonderful breeder, where there is no stupid question, who I have no problem picking the phone up & calling, who is invested for the long haul. My pup's sire also wants to be involved & is actively following the pups. 

Had I not gotten off the computer & out in the golden community, I wouldn't have my special girl--she's phenomenal.


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

Chritty said:


> . It's just shocking to hear that some do behave in appalling and petty ways from the other side of the fence. They're breeders, not holier than thou.
> 
> .


I don't get this. No group of people is without different personalities. Why expect breeders to not have a few cranky gossipy people, or a regular person just having a rough day and venting? You say they aren't holier than thou, but seem to hold them to that standard.


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## thomas&betts (May 13, 2014)

NewfieMom said:


> I just saw this. I wanted a red girl, too. Why on earth can't I want one? When I adopted a dog, I took a dog from among the dogs who needed a home. But if I going to a breeder, am I not going to a breeder who has dogs that I like?
> 
> PS-I came to love, not just like, my rescue/adoptee. But he was the one who bit everyone who came on our front porch. He cost us a lot of money in fines and quarantine fees and obedience training. He was *not* an easy boy!!!
> 
> NewfieMom, who went to a breeder who had Newfoundlands!!!


And perhaps that's why people go to breeder's who have lighter colored pup's. They do seem in higher demand and cost every bit as much as the better marketed offspring of "show dog's". Who wants to deal with an arrogant puppy breeder? I found the breeder's who were rude and condescending to be the most shady of all. No contract on website, no clearances listed on website, etc. No mention of price. No details at all. Just kept staring at my wallet. I will always be willing to support only small family breeders who know how to breed cancer free pups. If they use parents to hunt or relate to the sporting use of Golden's, it's an obvious plus. 

I think people who read this thread are starting to wake to just who is breeding the majority of America's Goldens. It's a start. Soon they will wake to the reason for decreased longevity in show quality Goldens (one can hope ). Only then they will know what it's like to live with a Golden into its old age, and stop supporting people who live off of our favorite breed!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I will always be willing to support only small family breeders who know how to breed cancer free pups.[/QUOTE said:


> This mythical family breeder I would also support- but there is sadly no such thing as a cancer free golden( or dog for that matter). There is wishful thinking, there is magical thinking, but all dogs and humans are at risk of succumbing to cancers, and goldens more so. I have been very lucky and had many live to double digits, and have one now and they have come from many different kinds of breeder. It is hard to accept that there is an element of chance when we love them so very much, but in the words of C.S. Lewis the pain now is part of the joy then, the joy now is part of the pain then. My Tally dog could never live long enough for me unless he took his last breath when I took mine, but life has limits and humankind's capacity to prevent cancer and death with the power of our love hasnt evolved into reality yet, if it ever will. There is no use trying to blame anyone for that.


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## Coopsmom (Jan 13, 2015)

thomas&betts said:


> ..... I will always be willing to support only small family breeders _*who know how to breed cancer free pups*_. If they use parents to hunt or relate to the sporting use of Golden's, it's an obvious plus.
> 
> I think people who read this thread are starting to wake to just who is breeding the majority of America's Goldens. It's a start. Soon they will wake to the reason for decreased longevity in show quality Goldens (one can hope ). Only then they will know what it's like to live with a Golden into its old age, and stop supporting people who live off of our favorite breed!


Please don't spread misinformation by suggesting that ANY breeder "knows how to breed cancer free pups". *NO breeder knows how to do that.*


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

This thread is getting a bit out of hand. Let's try to keep things within the bounds of reason. It's not supposed to be a forum to spout that breeders are evil or ruining the dogs or other nonsense. It's supposed to be about how to, and how not to, make a first contact with breeders, nothing more.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

I actually think the op had some good info for anyone who may be looking for a pup. Although I do think it's sad. Even though Chloe came from a Byb I remember I sent that first email for my parents. Although I already knew the price and the color of the pups. I said in a few short sentences asking if they were still available and telling our story of how we lost Jake and we're looking for a new golden. Yes I think it's sad some breeders do it but not all of them do.


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## thomas&betts (May 13, 2014)

DanaRuns said:


> This thread is getting a bit out of hand. Let's try to keep things within the bounds of reason. It's not supposed to be a forum to spout that breeders are evil or ruining the dogs or other nonsense. It's supposed to be about how to, and how not to, make a first contact with breeders, nothing more.


Sorry, I didn't know you were a breeder! Yet now you are going to tell me how I should approach breeders? Shouldn't I be free to approach my breeder any way I choose? Why do you think you have that right to tell me how I need to speak or act (or did I misread your quoted post)? I certainly didnt solicit your advice! Are you just curious how I and other forum members would do it? This certainly isn't Facebook or Pinterest where you can control the give and take of idea's. If you want to know how I would do it, just ask. If you want to suggest how I do it, wait until I or other solicit your opinion. You act as if you can *BLACKLIST* forum members just as was done on Facebook, and then act surprised to find people can respond immediately.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

thomas&betts said:


> I will always be willing to support only small family breeders who know how to breed cancer free pups.


If you know somebody who knows how to breed cancer free pups, please give me their contact info. I will go on their waiting list TODAY. Also, since that secret would be worth many millions of dollars, I would encourage you to put that family breeder in touch with a legal team ASAP so they can patent their methodology. Man, if you actually knew anybody who could breed a cancer free litter or line, you'd have a list of blank checks a mile long from everybody who cares about this breed.


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## thomas&betts (May 13, 2014)

tippykayak said:


> If you know somebody who knows how to breed cancer free pups, please give me their contact info. I will go on their waiting list TODAY. Also, since that secret would be worth many millions of dollars, I would encourage you to put that family breeder in touch with a legal team ASAP so they can patent their methodology. Man, if you actually knew anybody who could breed a cancer free litter or line, you'd have a list of blank checks a mile long from everybody who cares about this breed.


*At DanaR request, I will stay on topic. Please feel free to request in a new thread. I promise to respond. All others please honor our thread host request. Thank You*


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## Coopsmom (Jan 13, 2015)

thomas&betts said:


> Sorry, I didn't know you were a breeder! Yet now you are going to tell me how I should approach breeders? Shouldn't I be free to approach my breeder any way I choose? Why do you think you have that right to tell me how I need to speak or act (or did I misread your quoted post)? I certainly didnt solicit your advice! Are you just curious how I and other forum members would do it? This certainly isn't Facebook or Pinterest where you can control the give and take of idea's. If you want to know how I would do it, just ask. If you want to suggest how I do it, wait until I or other solicit your opinion. You act as if you can *BLACKLIST* forum members just as was done on Facebook, and then act surprised to find people can respond immediately.


She was trying to be helpful - please be nice.


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## Chritty (Aug 17, 2014)

DanaRuns said:


> 1. I don't care to educate those folks, I'm only trying to educate the people who come here.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Note that I haven't condemned anyone, and if you think so it's what you're projecting, not what I am saying.



I am referring to the breeders that you speak of in your first few posts, the ones who act terribly when asked questions that they think are beneath them on the first email, not you. They're the ones that I would not care to deal with


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

thomas&betts said:


> Sorry, I didn't know you were a breeder! Yet now you are going to tell me how I should approach breeders? Shouldn't I be free to approach my breeder any way I choose? Why do you think you have that right to tell me how I need to speak or act (or did I misread your quoted post)? I certainly didnt solicit your advice! Are you just curious how I and other forum members would do it? This certainly isn't Facebook or Pinterest where you can control the give and take of idea's. If you want to know how I would do it, just ask. If you want to suggest how I do it, wait until I or other solicit your opinion. You act as if you can *BLACKLIST* forum members just as was done on Facebook, and then act surprised to find people can respond immediately.


Excuse me, but I think you misunderstood. Please read the post again.


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## dezymond (May 3, 2012)

Let's stay on topic and remain respectful everyone.


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## Chritty (Aug 17, 2014)

lhowemt said:


> I don't get this. No group of people is without different personalities. Why expect breeders to not have a few cranky gossipy people, or a regular person just having a rough day and venting? You say they aren't holier than thou, but seem to hold them to that standard.



This will be referring to breeders that DanaRuns has spoken about in her first few posts. 

It's because they need the consumer. The very same consumer that they mock. It has been said on here that the most reputable breeders are the hobby breeders. I would assume that these hobby breeders would not be able to go 2-3 full size litters without being able to home their puppies. It is their arrogant attitude that makes them come across as holier than thou. 

Maybe if this thread had been titled differently and the stories about breeders mocking prospective buyers privately, some even putting the word around not to sell to certain people because they don't like them, had not been posted then the last few pages of discussion would never have happened. 

Being a part of this forum allows people who have no part of the breeding/showing/sporting world a look behind the curtain. Not every potential puppy owner has the privilege of seeing behind it


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Do they also immediately reject and ridicule people who are involved in rescue?


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

mylissyk said:


> Do they also immediately reject and ridicule people who are involved in rescue?


Rescues aren't perfect either: https://www.thedodo.com/adoption-applications-perfect-family-1188877689.html I think there are plenty of threads on this forum with people complaining about the black & white policies of rescues. Having just purchased my first pup & being involved in GR rescue, I had no issue finding a reputable breeder.


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## thorbreafortuna (Jun 9, 2013)

Personally, I'm grateful to have some insider tips on how to start a contact with a breeder and enjoy the highest likelihood of getting my next perfect puppy. Is it a shame that some people make snap judgements? Sure, but we all do at times in our own realm of influence, even as we strive to be fair and just individuals.


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## Cookie's Mom (Oct 14, 2013)

Ljilly28 said:


> That is such a sane and sincere sounding email. It is levelheaded and shows you already had a golden, it forms a common bond bc so many of us have lost our old folks, and it shows an appreciation for the fact that litters are planned not always at the right time. . . great letter.



Thanks Jill. ?

All the breeders that responded were great and quite a few were expecting small litters so they weren't sure if they would have a girl for me but they that they would keep me updated. One breeder, Alaine Hamilton from Dromara Goldens was so wonderful in that she reached out to other breeders to see if anyone had an available girl for me. That was such a nice gesture that really touched me. She took tome out to help me. I really appreciated that. She ended up locating a possible puppy for me but right at that time we had already got on the wait list with Julie.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

mylissyk said:


> Do they also immediately reject and ridicule people who are involved in rescue?


I think breeders generally are extremely supportive of rescues. The breeders in my local GR club started a GR rescue, in fact, which is one of the biggest in California. So, in my experience, no. Anything that helps dogs, they are for. Of course, all generalities fall apart at some point, so I'm sure there's some breeder out there who isn't fond of rescues. But really, the disdain flows from rescues to breeders, not so much the other way around. Good breeders see themselves and rescues being on the same side. Rescues don't always see it that way.


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## forgop (May 26, 2015)

Evidently these breeders don't have an ounce of class.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I do think the thread idea is useful. A Lush puppy went to a forum member I didnt know before bc of the balance between specific enthusiasm for Lush and her lines on the one hand and a low pressure approach on the other being understanding of the busy times like the whelping week.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

From some of the comments, you'd think it was like this...


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## ktaylor320 (Jul 15, 2015)

See, I find this post very interesting and also partially nerve-wracking! When I was looking for Rex, I emailed tons of breeders, and I would always inquire as to the price, because to me, it says a lot about the type of breeder they are. For instance, if they claim AKC registration, clearances, etc. and then only charge like $300, I would be skeptical. And then if they were charging $2000, I would think they were just in it for the money, and would also wanna look elsewhere (range for where I am from is anywhere from 800-1500 for a good dog). 
To me, sometimes buyers can be very tentative too and have been burned by bad breeders before. I just feel like I want a golden for the love of having a golden. It's shocking to me that breeders would see one "wrong" question and tell everyone they know to blackball you, and it makes me nervous for any future puppy endeavors.

I ended up rescuing Rex. A friend of mine knew of some people that were selling a golden puppy, and she told me that they were keeping him outside because their son had an allergy, and he never got the love and attention that he deserved and so they were selling him, and of course my heart melted. He doesn't have his papers, he is most likely from a BYB, and he has a heart murmur and I feel like a lot of people would say I screwed up, didn't know what I was doing, etc. But Rex is my pride and joy, and he deserves more than a life in the backyard alone all the time, and if I could go back, I wouldn't change a thing. Months of searching finally led me to my sweet boy, and we even have the same birthday. Someday I will want a new puppy and will want to go through a breeder, and I hope they will be understanding.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

ktaylor320 said:


> I ended up rescuing Rex. A friend of mine knew of some people that were selling a golden puppy, and she told me that they were keeping him outside because their son had an allergy, and he never got the love and attention that he deserved and so they were selling him, and of course my heart melted. He doesn't have his papers, he is most likely from a BYB, and he has a heart murmur and I feel like a lot of people would say I screwed up, didn't know what I was doing, etc. But Rex is my pride and joy, and he deserves more than a life in the backyard alone all the time, and if I could go back, I wouldn't change a thing. Months of searching finally led me to my sweet boy, and we even have the same birthday. Someday I will want a new puppy and will want to go through a breeder, and I hope they will be understanding.


What a wonderful story! But it sounds like maybe Rex rescued you.  Who cares if he doesn't have his papers? That's meaningless. Only one of my rescues has ever been registered with the AKC, and that was only because I was able to track down the greeder and get the registration papers, and then I registered her when she was five years old. But who cares? Our rescues can touch our souls as much or more than the fanciest puppy.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I do encourage anyone interested in a golden retriever to attend dog events in their area and get to know dog people. Meeting people face to face is so much better. A good impression in person is worth so much more than a stack emails or even phone calls. Getting referred by someone you met at a dog event to a breeder is so much better than sending an email inquiry hoping that a breeder reads it.


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## ktaylor320 (Jul 15, 2015)

Also, I have read through this entire thread and can see both sides of this 'argument' per se, and think that is precisely the issue. There are sides. Shouldn't we all be making the best effort to try and reach balance, after all, regardless of opinions, backgrounds, ideologies, or socioeconomic status, aren't we all the same in that we want the best home for this breed we have come to love so much, through one means or another?
DanaRuns, maybe, since you obviously have experience in the breeder world, you could encourage other breeders to make a more concerted effort to be understanding, particularly with regards to first-time pet buyers that obviously have no idea what they are doing (we have all been there at one point). 
And we as buyers can try and remember that breeders are people too. I am totally offended by the notion of blackballing people, or insisting that there is proper etiquette and decorum involved to be followed when simply issuing an inquiry. After all, we've all seen times where our sweet goldens are the exact OPPOSITE of well-mannered. That being said, I can also see that if I love a dog, I would be strict about where to place it. If for some reason I had to give up Rex, you can be dang sure any potential placement would be scrutinized and vetted more than a potential presidential cabinet member.

This thread has created some heated discussion, and exposed some interesting ideologies, but perhaps we can use it to enact change? We can educate first-time buyers on how to approach breeders, as well as inform some of the breeders that are less than kind that their behavior is also not acceptable!


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

ktaylor320 said:


> Also, I have read through this entire thread and can see both sides of this 'argument' per se, and think that is precisely the issue. There are sides. Shouldn't we all be making the best effort to try and reach balance, after all, regardless of opinions, backgrounds, ideologies, or socioeconomic status, aren't we all the same in that we want the best home for this breed we have come to love so much, through one means or another?


That's a great thought. Idealistic and good. But this thread wasn't made so much to inspire breeder/buyer utopia, as to give puppy buyers a heads up about how important that first contact can be, and how sometimes unfair things happen when you make contact in a way that doesn't give breeders a sense of who you are.



> DanaRuns, maybe, since you obviously have experience in the breeder world, you could encourage other breeders to make a more concerted effort to be understanding, particularly with regards to first-time pet buyers that obviously have no idea what they are doing (we have all been there at one point).


In that thread I made several efforts, and I have done so in other such threads, and continue to do so whenever and wherever such discussions come up. Honestly, though, I don't think it ever has much impact. Most of those breeders have been doing this for decades, have had possibly thousands of interactions with potential puppy buyers, and can be pretty solidly set in their ways.



> This thread has created some heated discussion, and exposed some interesting ideologies, but perhaps we can use it to enact change? We can educate first-time buyers on how to approach breeders, as well as inform some of the breeders that are less than kind that their behavior is also not acceptable!


Good luck with that. I'm a relative newbie, and I'm already jaded enough to think that wholesale change is a pipe dream. My hope is that this thread will help people to realize how important it is to make sure your initial contact is not a casual one, but a very carefully crafted one. Longtime breeders aren't likely to change, and the newer breeders are probably not so jaded yet and likely aren't part of the "problem" (which I put in quotes because many breeders don't see this as a problem).


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I just read the new posts in this thread and many of the responses made me sad. I think it was intended to help but went a bit awry, unfortunately. 

I thought it might be helpful to tell you the things that I like receiving in puppy buyer inquiry emails. I like hearing about your history with the breed. Tell me about your heart dog, tell me about the dog you grew up with, tell me about your recent loss of your dog. That is a very easy way to connect with someone via email. If you have never had a golden before that is OK, but tell me why you want one now. Also, tell me what you are looking for. If you want a specific personality or appearance, that is ok too. But it helps me know immediately if the litter I am planning may be right for you. It doesn't need to be a novel but providing information is helpful. I have no problem with someone asking about price, so if that will be a deal breaker for you then include that too. But know that just asking about price without including any other info may rub some breeders the wrong way. Hopefully this helps!


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## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

Can I ask this question please. Why are things so different here in the UK and France? In the US it is clearly a sellers market, sorry if I am using clumsy terms I am not wanting to offend ANYONE. But there the breeders can and do call the stakes, as would happen in any seller driven market. Here where I live there seems to be a much healthier supply and demand environment and things play out naturally. Is it simply a question of too few quality breeders in US compared to the size of the population?


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> I just read the new posts in this thread and many of the responses made me sad. I think it was intended to help but went a bit awry, unfortunately.
> 
> I thought it might be helpful to tell you the things that I like receiving in puppy buyer inquiry emails. I like hearing about your history with the breed. Tell me about your heart dog, tell me about the dog you grew up with, tell me about your recent loss of your dog. That is a very easy way to connect with someone via email. If you have never had a golden before that is OK, but tell me why you want one now. *Also, tell me what you are looking for. If you want a specific personality or appearance, that is ok too. But it helps me know immediately if the litter I am planning may be right for you. It doesn't need to be a novel but providing information is helpful.* I have no problem with someone asking about price, so if that will be a deal breaker for you then include that too. But know that just asking about price without including any other info may rub some breeders the wrong way. Hopefully this helps!


I think a lot of pet puppy buyers wouldn't know what to say about what they are looking for, other than price and color. They want a Golden Retriever, that's all they know.


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## Coopsmom (Jan 13, 2015)

I agree that this thread, with a LOT of helpful information, has gone a bit astray..... It seems to me that "serious", ethical breeders are mostly interested in making the breed BETTER (including needed attention to health, conformation, performance, etc). 
The average "pet" buyer may be making their first call/email to a breeder due to the over-popularity of the breed and may possess a lot of "misinformation" about the Golden being a "perfect family dog" (they are BUT it's not like what you see in LLBean commercials/photos where the Golden is just hanging out and looking beautiful . In other words, Goldens require a lot of attention, activity, exercise, training, etc. (breeders know this/buyers may not). 
Breeders know that a Golden may not be the best "pet"for a potential buyer, thus the need for breeders to be selective about who they sell to. If we agree that breeders want to IMPROVE the breed as a primary motivation then they are probably looking for potential buyers who have done their "due diligence" in terms of why they want a Golden. The breeders I know who use a questionnaire gather a lot of this information before engaging in any real discussion about a potential sale.
Although I am not a breeder, I understand why competent/ethical breeders are protective about who they sell to and I am glad for this! That said, rather than making a "snap judgment" about a potential puppy buyer, a competent/ethical breeder might also wish to take some time to educate potential buyers about the breed, the importance of a good match, etc. If a breeder simply ignores calls/emails it probably (inadvertently) contributes to the rise of backyard breeders and puppy mills. (not blaming good breeders for this- just making a point).


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

DanaRuns said:


> I think a lot of pet puppy buyers wouldn't know what to say about what they are looking for, other than price and color. They want a Golden Retriever, that's all they know.


I should have been more specific. I meant, appearance, temperament, personality, etc. I have a questionnaire I use that gets into more detail, but initially I like knowing what someone is looking for generally. Some people are looking to train the dog to be a therapy dog, some have a desire to run daily with their (adult) dog, etc. It's more about the puppy buyer's lifestyle and desires than anything.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Pretend you don't know me... Would this be too short, too long, or worth a response? 

"Hi! I'm looking to purchase a golden retriever puppy. I grew up with a golden and fell in love with the breed. I currently have two retriever mixes that were adopted from non profit rescues. My eldest is a 3 year old Golden Mix, and my youngest is a 6 month old Flat-coated Mix. 

Ideally I'm looking for a puppy with moderate energy, an off switch, that could be suited for Rally, maybe competition obedience, maybe therapy work. Mostly as a companion. Bear and I are just getting started in Rally and don't know where it'll lead. 

Do you have any puppies on the ground or a litter planned? 

Also, I realize the general range of a well bred puppy, but money is a factor. How much do your puppies cost?

Feel free to email me at xxxxxxx
Or call me at xxx-xxx-xxxx

Sincerely,
Jen"


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## Rkaymay (May 12, 2014)

I read every single post in this thread, and I wonder, how many people do most of you deal with on a regular basis? I don't mean that in a hostile way, but people are not made of a mold. You will encounter MANY personalities - even among breeders. You will get kind ones, open ones, arrogant ones, irritable ones, close-minded ones, harsh ones, compassionate ones, the list goes on and on. Never lump all of one group of people into a stereotype - that is how racism begins, how genocide happens, and how people get hurt. Many of you demand a breeder who is kind and open to all sorts of people, but you yourselves are condemning all breeders without knowing all breeders. Do you see the irony?

Being in healthcare, I see people at their worst (incredibly sick) and their best (having a baby, for example). I've met people who are incredibly crappy at their best and people who are incredibly kind at their worst. I have seen, first hand, the sense of entitlement some people have - you are here to cater to me and only to me. I have seen the selfless nature of some people.

Breeders don't make much off their puppies. They don't gain anything by selling to you. If people come to them with any sense of entitlement, of the breeder needing THEM, they are probably not going to get the most favorable response from a breeder. If people come to the breeder with the sense of needing the BREEDER, the breeder will probably respond well to that person.

The breeder _is_ your authority on that puppy. The breeder knows everything about that puppy; they have poured their life, their heart, and maybe even their hopes and dreams into that puppy. They want what is best for that puppy - and they want what is best for you. They need to get to know you to make that happen.

A doctor is your authority on any ailments. If you go to your doctor and say, "I need my gallbladder out. My sister had her gallbladder out and I have the same symptoms. I need you to take it out", your doctor may humor you and run some tests, but they won't take your gallbladder out. They'll try other, safer things first. Many of us wouldn't dream of going to the doctor and telling them how to do their job (though there are people that do). We don't say doctors think they are "holier than thou" because they've gone to school for 6+ years to learn the skills of their trade. Breeders are no different - they have spent years learning about their dogs, putting their life into their dogs, and yet we think we know more than them?

I, for one, really appreciate this thread. I rescued Z from a shelter; I have never contacted a breeder before. However, at some point I will want another puppy, and I may want to buy from a breeder. I love knowing what breeders want to know, and now that this thread is on the internet, puppy buyers can google "what to say to a breeder" and maybe get this thread or another from this forum. How wonderful is that? We've successfully educated hundreds of people without talking to them directly! Go team!

Relax, friends. People will always talk behind your back, regardless of how you relate to them (consumer, friend, family, boss, etc). People will not change because you are offended. You don't want people to talk badly behind your back? Don't let people talk badly behind anyone's back. Shut down any gossip you hear. Refuse to gossip yourself, or to condemn someone you don't know.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Brave said:


> Pretend you don't know me... Would this be too short, too long, or worth a response?
> 
> "Hi! I'm looking to purchase a golden retriever puppy. I grew up with a golden and fell in love with the breed. I currently have two retriever mixes that were adopted from non profit rescues. My eldest is a 3 year old Golden Mix, and my youngest is a 6 month old Flat-coated Mix.
> 
> ...


I think it's a good contact, because you've hit several "magic words," like "grew up with a Golden," "fell in love with the breed," I currently have two...," and experience specific terms like, "moderate energy," "off switch," "rally," "obedience," and "on the ground." I think you'd get a positive response from anyone.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

What about: 

"I came across your website when I was researching local breeders. I didn't see any updated information on your litter listings. Do you have any puppies on the ground or planned breedings? 

I'd love to get to know you better and see if your dogs and you would be a good fit with us. 

Please email me at xxxxxxxx or call me at xxxxxxxxx. 

Sincerely, 
Jen. 


*******************************************
Is that too short and/or informal and/or generic?


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

P.s. Thanks in advance for humoring me. 

I think examples would help others visualize what their emails should look like. I appreciate your help with this.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Brave said:


> What about:
> 
> "I came across your website when I was researching local breeders. I didn't see any updated information on your litter listings. Do you have any puppies on the ground or planned breedings?
> 
> ...


I don't think that one is going to get a lot of traction with many breeders. Some, but you'll miss out on a number of them.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

DanaRuns said:


> I don't think that one is going to get a lot of traction with many breeders. Some, but you'll miss out on a number of them.


I disagree. I think most breeders (even the ones who can be a bit persnickety about this stuff) would respond to both emails. But the first one is definitely better because it gives more information about the puppy buyer and what you are looking for.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

This is probably me being flippant here, but sometimes it seems like this subject boils down to something like the song "How do you handle a woman".... LOL.  

It seems like for every single breeder who may want to know what people are specifically looking for.... there's another breeder out there who gets turned off when somebody contacts them with a shopping list of stuff they want in a dog and what they want to do. 

People seem to be really focusing on emails - but use your phone and talk to people. There's a lot of people I can think of who are not the best at checking their inbox, but they are pretty good at answering the phone or returning calls. 

And biggest thing that I can tell is... if you don't want somebody going "ick" about you contacting them. Don't make them think too hard about what kind of home you'd give a puppy. Unless as the case may be, you might not be an ideal home for a puppy. 

About people being blacklisted btw.... that again, as far as I know... is reserved for those homes who have proven to be bad homes for one reason or another. A lot of it is people who actually unlike what the premise of this thread describes, are very slick when it comes to talking the talk but don't walk the walk. I would hope that nobody participating in this thread would even come close to being a home like that.... 

And universally not getting a response when you've sent the same email out to everyone.... I wouldn't call that blacklisted.... blacklisted is more like people's names being shared privately or not to ensure that somebody does not get their hands on another puppy because of some games they played before.


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

I would respond to either email. It is a good starting point for communication to begin. 

Always remember the saying from Forrest Gump.. "life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get". That holds true for everything we do when it comes time to have a litter and have to screen the homes. I have had families, young couples, older retired couples, disabled people, medical people (two pups are being trained as service dogs, one for a wheelchair bound lawyer and a diabetic alert dog). They were teachers, stay-at-home moms, lawyers, pilots, nurses.. All walks of life! Some of them had good emails, some didnt but I know it is awkward reaching out to someone like that and not knowing how to really put it forth in an email. 

And as like DanaRuns metioned, some breeders just might not change, and hey some puppy people will never think to look up how to reach out to a breeder, but for those who do (like the great people on this forum!) now you do know and can be better prepared for the next time. 

Us humans dont know it all! We learn something every single day! This is one of those things!


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Here is a message I received in my e mail box this morning. 

"Hi do u have puppies, If so how much?"

That's it. No Information about themselves. No questions about the kind of pups we produce or what the focus of our breeding program is, nothing.

I haven't responded yet, but I think it will be a one word answer.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Swampcollie said:


> Here is a message I received in my e mail box this morning.
> 
> "Hi do u have puppies, If so how much?"
> 
> ...


This is precisely the kind of initial contact I was talking about, and precisely the kind of response I was cautioning about. Thanks for making it real.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Swampcollie said:


> Here is a message I received in my e mail box this morning.
> 
> "Hi do u have puppies, If so how much?"
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, this is how many kids in the next generation texts. They no longer know how to hold a conversation or spell out words. I had an English teacher tell me this is the first generation that does not capitalize the letter "I" when used as a pronoun.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Rkaymay said:


> I read every single post in this thread, and I wonder, how many people do most of you deal with on a regular basis? I don't mean that in a hostile way, but people are not made of a mold. You will encounter MANY personalities - even among breeders. You will get kind ones, open ones, arrogant ones, irritable ones, close-minded ones, harsh ones, compassionate ones, the list goes on and on. Never lump all of one group of people into a stereotype - that is how racism begins, how genocide happens, and how people get hurt. Many of you demand a breeder who is kind and open to all sorts of people, but you yourselves are condemning all breeders without knowing all breeders. Do you see the irony?
> 
> Being in healthcare, I see people at their worst (incredibly sick) and their best (having a baby, for example). I've met people who are incredibly crappy at their best and people who are incredibly kind at their worst. I have seen, first hand, the sense of entitlement some people have - you are here to cater to me and only to me. I have seen the selfless nature of some people.
> 
> ...


This is a great post, and it resonates with me. I taught in a high-powered prep school for twenty years, and there was always a tiny contingent of more burned out faculty members complaining about specific kids, the headmaster, other teachers, the dress code- whatever it was (right about the month of February before spring break). That stayed IN the faculty room only. Were they blowing of steam, exhausted from the long winter, or were they terrible people? I lean to blowing off steam bc they were engaged and dynamic in the classroom. The vast majority of teachers did not waste time "coffeepot complaining" in the faculty room, to be team players, to keep heads on straight, to keep congruent with the mission to care about each kid in loco parenti etc or even just not to get caught dragging down the school culture with a bad 'tude. The teachers there have one year contracts only, so you really have to be on board and passionate to stay- easy to be fired for a lousy attitude. 

For this thread, it is like things the grouchy said in the context of the faculty room with only colleagues suddenly got put in the newspaper with no context. It is different to complain breeder to breeder, than really be hostile to the clients, buyers, inquirers. Still, only a small percentage do it, and then I have only seen really bad apples named- like someone trying to buy a bitch puppy under false pretenses for a doodle breeding operation etc.

I am thankful for inquiries and enthusiastic interest in my dogs. As a buyer often I have had every experience under the sun, and I think it is like applying to college. Once I wanted a son of a specific stud dog, and a breeder offered me pick 8- a pet quality puppy when I wanted to show my dog. When I said thank you, no, I got a scathing letter about "tire-kicking" the great dog's puppy, and how I would be lucky to have ANY offspring. That didnt make me hate all breeders, but it did make me realize what the post above says- there are every type of person under the rainbow breeding with every kind of world view and perspective. Some mesh, some dont. That experience made me very careful never to pressure homes into taking the wrong pup, and now I dont take any deposits til week 4, and no show puppy deposit at all.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Swampcollie said:


> Here is a message I received in my e mail box this morning.
> 
> "Hi do u have puppies, If so how much?"
> 
> ...


I can understand the reluctance to answer to the above email. I would probably answer with more than one word email: "How much are you willing to spend on the dog now and for the rest of it's life?"

Would you respond to an email in which she tells you about her previous golden who passed at almost 15, had goldens all her life, does not do field, obedience or other stuff as her family and work life does not allow her time for it but does go camping and has a large yard and pool for her dogs? If you do have pups available she would like to meet you and your dogs especially the mother.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Claudia M said:


> Would you respond to an email in which she tells you about her previous golden who passed at almost 15, had goldens all her life, does not do field, obedience or other stuff as her family and work life does not allow her time for it but does go camping and has a large yard and pool for her dogs? If you do have pups available she would like to meet you and your dogs especially the mother.


I always respond to such emails.


The thing that make to one sentence inquiry so irritating (beyond the lack of writing real words) is the only place they can find that particular email address is on the litter page on my website. That page clearly states at the top in large bold type that we don't have puppies at this time and we won't until next year.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Swampcollie said:


> I always respond to such emails.
> 
> 
> The thing that make to one sentence inquiry so irritating (beyond the lack of writing real words) is the only place they can find that particular email address is on the litter page on my website. That page clearly states at the top in large bold type that we don't have puppies at this time and we won't until next year.


Thank you! This is close enough to what I helped this lady in her inquiries. I actually suggested to her to ask about the price on either the follow up email or when visiting. The inquiries went to the ones I saw they had show/pet potential listings. 

While she did go to a BYB she had pictures every week of the entire litter, she went and visited twice before picking up the puppy. 

Honestly I felt bad for her. She has gone thru over two months before someone gave her the respect anyone deserves - a returned email/call. 

An email is the best way in my view, you cannot leave much detail in a voicemail.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

I do respond to EVERY email I get. It might be short, if one emails me:
"Do you have any puppies available?" 

This type of email, I will respond back and say 
" Hi, I am sorry but I do not have any puppies available. 

Thank-You,
Kelli"

When someone can not even do an introductory or closing statement.... when someone can not say hi or hello, or put a name to the email, they will not get my time. I find it rather rude.


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## ktaylor320 (Jul 15, 2015)

cubbysan said:


> Unfortunately, this is how many kids in the next generation texts. They no longer know how to hold a conversation or spell out words. I had an English teacher tell me this is the first generation that does not capitalize the letter "I" when used as a pronoun.


I am 21 years old, and I personally prefer a face-to-face conversation and relationship to one through a phone screen. Not everyone of the "next generation" is unable to hold a conversation or spell.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

ktaylor320 said:


> I am 21 years old, and I personally prefer a face-to-face conversation and relationship to one through a phone screen. Not everyone of the "next generation" is unable to hold a conversation or spell.


Thank you!!! What I am seeing with my teenagers at home and their friends is very scary and my kids are not half as bad as their friends.

In corporate America, many big companies are considering getting rid of desk phones, because people are not using them anymore - everything is instant messaging.


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## kayakhappy (Jul 16, 2015)

If there isn't a questionnaire on the website, I have been sending something like this:


Hi,

I saw you recommended numerous times on the Golden Retriever Forum and am interested in information about the litter listed on your website. My husband, soon-to-be 5 year old Lily, and I would love to add a golden to our family anytime after Oct.5. 

We are a laid back family looking for a dog that can hang with us in our day to day walking to school, playing in our fully fenced yard, being part of the family in the house, but then love hiking, biking, kayaking, camping with us on weekends. 

We currently have no pets and this would be the first time we raised a puppy. My husband and I had dogs as children, but our parents did the hard work. My favorite dog was a sweet redheaded golden girl we had when I was a teen so I am sure a golden is the breed for us. They are the best!
We are looking for a breeder who is happy to share knowledge with newbies and who is experienced enough to help match us to a dog that will fit our family.

We are outside Sacramento, but traveling is not an issue for us. 

I appreciate your time and would love to know if you have spots available for this litter, info on the sire and dam, as well as your process for selecting homes.

Thank you so much!

Not very many respond, but some do. I think you just have to be yourself and the right owner and breeder will find each other eventually. It is really hard to be patient though when you have wanted a little furbaby for a long time! It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round. I hope both buyers and breeders treat others the way they would want to be treated.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Sometimes puppy buyers will commit social faux pass's or blunders because of their lack of social skills. I learned the art of making a good impression for a breeder. I still struggle with social skills sometimes since I am on the autism spectrum. There might be first puppy buyers in their 20s who have researched the breed and are serious, but they still leave a dorky e-mail and are turned down. I think they need a little more patience, because there are us dorks who would provide an excellent home for a puppy, but might not quite have all of the social graces. For the rest of us, it is a skill and an art. Sometimes going to a dog show to try to connect with breeders is a great idea. I am already doing that even though I don't plan on getting another puppy for 3 or 4 years. Not all breeders are exactly alike. If you can be authentic about your love of the breed, your activity goals, and what you enjoy as a dog owner, if you already have one, etc. then you should get a friendly supportive response.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Perhaps ironically, some breeders got into dogs because they, too, had a hard time with social skills and graces, and dogs were an easier and happier connection. Just because they are breeders now doesn't mean that they magically became better with social skills.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

This thread made me think of one FB thread I saw where a breeder in a Midwest state (I think Texas) was warning other breeders about a request she got from the Carolinas. She mentioned the person by name and where he was from. She was so scared because he contacted her 1500 miles away, instead of buying a puppy in his state. I was really shocked by that. Most people in my area need to look outside of the state too because there are not enough well bred puppies.

Being nosy, I stalked the guys FB page. Poor guy was minor league baseball player with a young wife, probably doing exactly what all of us do when searching for a puppy.


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