# Food aggression



## bjreichard (Nov 25, 2012)

My wife and I have a 2 year old golden retriever. He has had a slight food aggression that seems to keep getting worse. When he was a puppy we would do the hand in bowl tricks and such and never really had much of an issue. We had another dog at the time that snapped at Graham(golden in question) and they would get into it a little. Once Graham got bigger than the other dog then the fights got worse and to the point where we gave the other dog back to my wife's parents because of the fights. I got it once trying to break a fight of theirs up. More recently my mother in law was staying at our house in September watching Graham and he was chewing on a pine cone. She went out attempting to get it from him and he attacked her. We then put him into training recommended by our vet. However we discontinued it because it was apparent that it was aggressive and more pain based and not what we wanted. So we continued working with him on our own. A couple weekends ago we had a couple situations where I tried to take a leaf from him and he went after me a bit. Then the next day we were working with him during a meal trying to get him in a more relaxed position. All of a sudden he lunged at my wife. I pulled on the leash and yelled no at him when he turned on me and attacked me. Luckily I was wearing a sweatshirt or my arms would have been much worse. At that time we were contemplating everything as we were both scared of him and his next attack. We decided on a behaviorist. She wanted us to get a basket muzzle before working with him. She had us feeding him with it on but then while he was eating nudging him away and putting him in a down stay. It was working for her but he again attacked me twice with the muzzle on although he got me again slightly despite the muzzle. She is now having us hand feeding him which is a 40 minute ordeal per session. His behavior is encouraging but we are still very apprehensive when we go back to feeding normally. I tried brushing him, which is another issue with him, today with the muzzle on and he again got a little aggressive(did not attack) again. I think we are both just on edge and worried about the next time. We both work 8-5 and we do not trust him out of his cage so he is in it for 9-10 hours a day. We are trying to get him on a couple of walks and ball play time a day. What are others experiences with these situations. Would he be better off with a family that can devote more time to him. He can be so sweet which is the most upsetting thing about the situation. His personality is so different than our other golden that we lost to cancer. Thanks in advance for your insight.


----------



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

How did you find the behaviorist you are working with? Some people use this title very loosely, without adequate training. If this were my dog, I would only be using a Certified Veterinary Behaviorist. There is a big difference in training, you can do a search on the internet to find one in your area, they aren't a dime a dozen. Here is a link:

Find a Board Certified Veterinary Behaviorist « ACVB

Behavior | College of Veterinary Medicine


I do not understand why she would have you nudge him away from his food and put him in a down, this seems to be simply confirming his feeling that he has to protect his food. Keep the basket muzzle on him, that is good advice. Why can't you let him out of his crate with the muzzle on? Please consider looking for a Certified Veterinary Behaviorist, you should have a written evaluation and protocol from the behaviorist that you are working on with this dog and it shouldn't involved nudging him away from his food while he's eating. 

Has your vet done a complete blood panel workup on this dog? He or she should have done this prior to the behavior consult.

I'm sorry that you're having these issues, please back off from the brushing and anything that seems to get a reaction from him until you have better advice from a professional. This is nothing to take chances with.


----------



## bjreichard (Nov 25, 2012)

Thank you for the advise. We found the behaviorist through the Internet but she is not a certified behaviorist. As far as the blood panel work by our vet. He has not offered that and quite honestly seems disinterested in helping. He recommended the aggressive trainer that if anything made the issue worse. Other than that his only other "words of wisdom" was euthanizing. 

As far as the crate when we are home he is outside is crate with no muzzle. He is in his crate when we are at work. This is because we are worried about him tearing stuff up otherwise. Has happened before. I do not think he should be roaming the house unattended with a muzzle on for 9-10 hours during the week. As you have linked it looks like the closes certified behaviorist is 2 hours or so away.


----------



## LeilaM (Sep 14, 2012)

Are you still in contact with his breeder? They would probably want to know about the issues you are having with him and may be able to help you.


----------



## bjreichard (Nov 25, 2012)

We tried contacting them a while back with no success. Kind of made us wonder about them in retrospect. May try again.


----------



## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

You can also look for a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist.

You have a VERY SERIOUS situation going on. I would cease any modification techniques you are using right now and feed him ONLY in his crate, that is, put the food at the back of his crate, have him go in to eat, shut the crate up and leave him there for at least 10 minutes after he is done eating. Then let him out of the crate. Alternatively, chose a reasonably large room (say a bedroom) that has a door, have him outside the room (not even close) and put his food at the far side of the room. Come out of the room and let him in. Close the door and leave him with his food for say 20 minutes. At that point open the door and call him out of the room lead him to another part of the house and you go in and remove the bowl.

While this may seem like letting him win, at this point I think it is most important to A) keep yourself safe and b) not let him practice this behavior (guarding his food). Do everything you can to eliminate any tension about eating. When you start working with a certified behaviorist you can begin to change his behaviors.


----------



## bjreichard (Nov 25, 2012)

Honestly he is only like this when working on food issueor trying take it away from him. We currently are hand feeding him with muzzle on and he is doing fine. Before getting muzzle we were just feeding him and leaving him alone which was working ok. The issues arise when trying to take anything he perceives as food away from him. He has not done this with toys before although we try to be as careful as possible.


----------



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

I hope you will consider making the drive (I assume to OSU vet school) for the evaluation or trying the idea below. It sounds like your best chance at getting the best information and advice for resolving this the best way possible for the dog and for your conscience. Please do not consider re-homing him to another family. Another family with more time to devote is not the answer. 

Selli-Belle's advice on dropping everything and feeding as she suggests is really the best thing, I think, until you find a better behaviorist who is truly educated and experienced enough to help you decide what the next step is. 

I know this is truly heartbreaking, I've been through a similar issue in the past and wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. For a dog loving family it is truly a nightmare to have a dog you can't trust. Please check back here for support, it is a good community.



Selli-Belle said:


> You can also look for a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist.
> 
> You have a VERY SERIOUS situation going on. I would cease any modification techniques you are using right now and feed him ONLY in his crate, that is, put the food at the back of his crate, have him go in to eat, shut the crate up and leave him there for at least 10 minutes after he is done eating. Then let him out of the crate. Alternatively, chose a reasonably large room (say a bedroom) that has a door, have him outside the room (not even close) and put his food at the far side of the room. Come out of the room and let him in. Close the door and leave him with his food for say 20 minutes. At that point open the door and call him out of the room lead him to another part of the house and you go in and remove the bowl.
> 
> While this may seem like letting him win, at this point I think it is most important to A) keep yourself safe and b) not let him practice this behavior (guarding his food). Do everything you can to eliminate any tension about eating. When you start working with a certified behaviorist you can begin to change his behaviors.


----------



## bjreichard (Nov 25, 2012)

Oh and the behaviorist we are working with is doing the "dog whispering" techniques. She is relating this all toward leadership and pack order type of things.


----------



## Dwyllis (Nov 22, 2012)

I'm no expert on Golden Retrievers, but it sounds as if he is spending the greater part of his day in the crate .....I guess that would be like us being confined to a small room day in & day out. I think I might grow aggressive if that was the case. Perhaps he feels as if the only thing he has control of in his life, is his food? And so he is protecting that as something he thinks he might also lose. Just a thought. My trainer is always telling us to put ourselves into our dogs' head & to try & think like a dog, in order to explain their behavorial issues or the way a dog behaves & the reasons behind it ...which are perfectly logical to the dog. She is a certified behavorialist. Dogs, like humans, need companionship & if your boy is spending most of the day in a crate, & on his own ......you say he spends time in a crate outside even when you are at home, if I have read correctly ....maybe that would explain his behaviour. My boy is four months old today, & the only time he is in his crate is between the hours of 11.30pm-6.30am, when we head off to bed. When I am working, he goes into a large pet playpen in our dining room, which has been cleared of all furniture, & our other dog stays in the same area to keep him company, though the papillon is not in the playpen. He only has to be in that for four hours until my husband is home from work, & he is free to be with him from then on. He spends every evening in the lounge with either both of us, or with my husband if I am at work. When we are at home, Loki is out of the playpen & either in the house with us, or outdoors with us, or with our adult papillon. I think a lot of the problem you are having might be due to him being cooped up for long hours on his own, but as I say, I am no expert. I do hope you are able to work through this,& it doesn't sound as if your vet is much help. I would change vets & find one who is more sympathetic. I have read on a posting on this forum, that Prozac can be helpful in situations like this .....prescribed by a vet.


----------



## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Guarding is never 'treated' with aggression or confrontations. Dogs guard because they feel they are going to lose what they have, and experience has taught them it is true. Avoid confrontations of any kind, he is feeling threatened and his warnings have been repeatedly ignored - hence the tendency to bite/snap 'right' away. Dogs use 'calming signals' when they feel threatened or uncomfortable in a situation. They may - lick their lips/nose, they will avoid eye contact, turn their head, just their eyes, or their whole body away from you, they may 'freeze' in position, hover over their bowl, look at you out the side of their eyes-, ignore all that, growl, ignore the growl (punish the growl the bites 'without warning') - the dog is forced to bite. He does not WANT to bite you.

Firstly, give him his bowl and walk away. Leave him to eat in peace - he deserves that much. Do not try to take anything away from him that is not life threatening. If he has something he cannot have, try calling him off of it to another room or scattering some high value treats on the floor so that he has to move away from it - so that you can safely pick it up.

Secondly - teach him to TRADE, and teach yourself to trade with him -every time. Start with a very low value item to him, perhaps an old toy that he will take in his mouth, then offer him a high value treat ( meat, cheese, hot dog) when he drops the toy, give him the treat, AND give him the toy back. Repeat repeat repeat. Gradually work up to higher value items. 

Thirdly - teach 'leave it' and 'drop it' and reward like crazy when he does.

Highly recommend the book 'Mine' by Jean Donaldson. It deals specifically with resource guarding, and has a protocol to follow using positive reinforcement.


----------



## bjreichard (Nov 25, 2012)

To clarify when we are home he is never in his crate. Only when we are working.


----------



## bjreichard (Nov 25, 2012)

Thank you all for your suggestions. I think we may call Ohio State. It seems extreme when first thinking about it but this issue is extreme and we really want this to work. He can be so good 90% of the time but his bad times are really bad and dangerous. And we just feel that everything that has been attempted thus far has not worked or is making it worse. We love the big guy emensely but cannot put ourselves or others at risk. We will keep you posted.


----------



## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

I'd definitely work with a credentialed behaviorist. One of my boys resource guards food & toys from my other pets--it's disheartening (and scary) to see the behavior in an otherwise wonderful golden but it's something I will always have to manage to keep everyone safe. Best of luck working with your boy.


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

bjreichard said:


> Oh and the behaviorist we are working with is doing the "dog whispering" techniques. She is relating this all toward leadership and pack order type of things.


Please please please immediately STOP any and all dog whisperer techniques. They are very old school and will backfire and teach your dog he needs to defend his resources.

You are in a situation that you really must spend the time and the drive to go see a certified veterinarian behaviourist. They can run all the blood tests that others have recommended, and they should be done. They will be able to tell you how to handle your dogs problems, and probably give you a reference for a positive method trainer in your area.

Trying to find another home for your dog is only going to pass the problem to someone else. Please make the effort to consult with the certified behaviorist.


----------



## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Ohio State is a great idea! Until them remember that every time your dog practices the aggressive behavior it increases the likelihood he will do it again. Remember for him the aggression is working. If you can eliminate any chance for him to practice the behavior you will be ahead of the game.


----------



## bjreichard (Nov 25, 2012)

Well a quick little update. We are taking him to OSU tomorrow as they had an opening. If not we would have had to wait until late February.


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm very glad to hear that.


----------



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

bjreichard said:


> Well a quick little update. We are taking him to OSU tomorrow as they had an opening. If not we would have had to wait until late February.


Thank you for letting us know, I was wondering how you were doing. Fingers crossed that it goes well and they give you ideas you can put to use.  If you don't mind sharing what you learn, I would love to hear what they say and what you think.


----------



## Dwyllis (Nov 22, 2012)

All the best with that. I am sure they will be able to find out what is going on & you will all greatly benefit from your visit. Would love to hear out it all goes.


----------



## bjreichard (Nov 25, 2012)

I hope whatever his issue this works or gives us answers. Everyday his domination issues are getting worse. He is trying to hump us more and more often. This had not occurred for a while until recently. What was not happening at all turned into every evening over the past week or so at the end of the night and is now more frequent than that. He is also nipping at our clothes, thighs, and arms when doing this. It is really becoming apparent that this is Graham's last chance. I know it is horrible to say and we are in tears even thinking about it but we cannot keep living this way. We are getting very worried about our safety and potentially others.


----------



## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

"Humping" is not a domination issue, it is what a dog does when it does not know what else to do. I never practice taking coveted things away from my dogs. However, I trust them and they trust me and I know they would let me take things away.... I was horrified when my sister this past weekend practiced taking a rawhide bone away from my pup. First of all, my pup saw her first rawhide at my sister's house... Second of all, I just do not do that to my dogs....
But true to my pup's temperament, she willingly gave my sister the rawhide.. I personally think it is not fair to annoy dogs when eating. I always meander around my kitchen when the dogs are eating, but I do not bug them...


----------



## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

Just a thought but since it's getting worse, is he getting the same amount of exercise or less? I know with all of my dogs if we're having a problem I increase the walks and it always helps. I'm not saying it'll work in your case but thought I'd mention it. I feel for you and him.


----------



## bjreichard (Nov 25, 2012)

To answer a couple of your questions. The humping is getting more aggressive in nature as well. He also just has a different look about him when doing so as well. This may be because we are more on edge and notice so we are worried more about his next action. As far as the exercise, over the last week plus in the worsening state if anything he is getting more exercise. We were both off this past week so he was getting multiple walks and play sessions.


----------



## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Good luck with your appointment tomorrow. If you happen to have any video of your boy exhibiting any of the questionable behavior, definitely take it with you--not recommending that you provoke him to get footage but if you happen to have any, it could be helpful.


----------



## bjreichard (Nov 25, 2012)

Unfortunately we do not have footage and we are not about to try and get any. I agree that it would be helpful but unfortunately we are not thinking it is going to happen when it does. Thank you all for your help and suggestions. It is much appreciated. We will keep you posted on our findings.


----------



## bjreichard (Nov 25, 2012)

Well we just got back. The vet/behaviorist basically stated that in our situation he is not dominant in any way he just has an extreme amount of anxiety for whatever reason. This is creating the issues we are having. This is very elevated with anything he perceives to be food related. Basically there is no cure for this. Medicine can be prescribed, and tips and tricks can be used to keep us as safe as possible but there are no guarantees. She stated what was particularly troubling in our situation was the fact that he gave off little to no warning signs and when he attacked it was not one bite but multiple aggressive bites. She said given that she felt there was a pretty high probability of another attack. It may be the same trigger or something new. Do not hate us as it is not the outcome we wanted but we have decided to have him put down. It was a horrible realization but we do not feel safe in our own home and do not feel comfortable having anyone else exposed to him. She stated if we ever wanted kids that he should not be around. Basically genetically whether due to the breeder or not he is not wired right and is a time bomb that could go off regardless. Thank you all for your help on this matter. He taught us so much in a short period of time and for that we are forever grateful. RIP Graham you will be forever missed and remembered for all of the good times. It is not your fault and you are in a better place now without anxiety or fear.


----------



## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

I am truly very, very sorry, both for you and your wife and for Graham...


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

You did get some answers and for that I am grateful. I am terribly sorry there was not more that could be done for Graham. I have fostered a dog that was wired wrong, and the final choice is heartbreaking, but sometimes it is the kindest thing for the dog. They are living in fear and insecurity, and that must be a terrible way to live. 

My heart goes out to you, you did nothing wrong, and you loved him. He is not afraid or anxious anymore. Peace is a gift, and I hope you allow yourselves to feel it too.


----------



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

mylissyk said:


> You did get some answers and for that I am grateful. I am terribly sorry there was not more that could be done for Graham. I have fostered a dog that was wired wrong, and the final choice is heartbreaking, but sometimes it is the kindest thing for the dog. They are living in fear and insecurity, and that must be a terrible way to live.
> 
> My heart goes out to you, you did nothing wrong, and you loved him. He is not afraid or anxious anymore. Peace is a gift, and I hope you allow yourselves to feel it too.


I really couldn't say this any better. Please know that you did the right thing and I admire the strength of character it took to see this through in a responsible and humane way. Bless you all.


----------

