# AKC Hunt Test Judge Issues



## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

I seriously doubt that AKC is listening ... sorry to say.

Although I only run field trials, I'm aware of the accumulation of complaints regarding hunt tests, including but not limited to the lack of judges and the difficulty in getting entered in a hunt test, both of which AKC could address and, while not maybe not cure, at least ameliorate the situation.

But don't feel that hunt tests are alone in the lack of judges regard. In field trials, 8 point judges are booked up years in advance (e.g., my next open year is 2021). There've been lots of complaints about the lack of good judges (I don't complain about judges unless there is demonstrative bias ... anybody that gives up their weekend to judge deserves the contestants' respect, or at least acceptance). The problems are multiple: many clubs prefer to have persons who train their own dogs; pros cannot judge field trials; judges would prefer to run their dogs instead of judge; judging a trial consumes AT LEAST one vacation day, often two vacation days, and sometimes three vacation days ... if you put that in terms of compensation (which owners of businesses must do), that's a fair amount of money that is being donated to the clubs for the purposes of letting other people run their dogs. 

*SORRY!* :doh: I got way off the topic of AKC's actions or failures to act in regard to hunt test judges. As I suggested above, don't hold your breath in anticipation of an AKC resolution.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Hey off topic slightly but what do you guys think of pros judging? This has been a topic of debate at training on numerous occasions. While I don't know enough to get into the conversation I still understand both sides. What are you guys feelings?


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Sherrie and Clint Catledge judge often. They've been pros for awhile. I had set up with them to come up and judge for a hunt test weekend then do a training seminar on the Monday after the hunt tests. I thought it would be a great way to get people geared up for the hunt tests the following month. Unfortunately my club couldn't get their act together and the deal fell apart. 

Up here pros as judges are a problem. We have so few people and so few pros. Baron Rea is a popular pro. If he were to be a hunt test judge, he would have a ton of conflicts with dogs he's trained. Having Sherrie and Clint judge here would mean they would probably have no conflicts with dogs they've trained or bred up here. So for pros, it's all in the conflicts they might have in judging in an area they might know a lot of the dogs. 

I don't have a big problem with pros judging. Field trials don't allow it. But hunt tests do. I don't know why the distinction.

With only 3 hunt test weekends up here, it's so hard to get people to judge and still run their own dogs. So we spread our hunt tests to: master & senior on Friday, master & junior on Saturday, senior & junior on Sunday. Then if you ran master, you could still judge a junior, or if you ran senior you could judge a master. 

Yesterday we spent 2 hours figuring out who could judge what, who had which dogs running at what level and who had judged with who in the past. It was an interesting discussion. Very short list of people for master.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

man Sheri and Clint were fantastic, what a bummer for your area to miss out. They did a training day the day before and it was like an all and all seminar! They are very down to earth too.
Yes, the debate was in field trials. There are conflicts on pros running but there are also political back rubs going on with ams judging each other's dogs. One week, you give my dog a break and the following week I'll do the same. I don't know, I haven't run enough to know if this is all true. One of the pro's mentioned making pros judge outside of their regions. There is also a belief that pros might set up a better test, but on the other hand they might set up tests they train their dogs for....I don't know, there is no good solution I suppose. 
Frankly, how does a pro have the time to judge, am's don't have the time and they don't have a truck full of dogs.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Clubs gotta pony up.
It's EASY to become a hunt test judge compared to the hoops you have to jump through to become a conformation or obedience judge. E-A-S-Y
In fact too easy I think there are far too many people becoming judges who have very little dog training experience. What you get are dumb tests.

Bottom line if you want different judges you need to put out some money and fly people in.

I bet there are some people who would love a 2 week vacation and judge every weekend


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Anney I agree on obedience and conformation judging being way hard to get into compared to FTs and HTs judging.

FT brings up a great point about taking vacation days off to judge. When I go to Fairbanks to judge, it's a 7 hour drive each way. Then I need to be there the day before for laying out the test. So for judging one day, it ties me up for 3 days. If I run Lucy in senior both days and judge junior on the third day, I'll be tied up for 5 days. Haven't explained that to my husband yet.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Alaska7133 said:


> Why has AKC made it so incredibly difficult to become a hunt test judge? What was the point? They haven't done that for field trials. Why are hunt test judges treated so differently?
> 
> My club is up against trying to find master level 8 point judges. We've looked at the west coast, and they don't have a lot of options either. So then the few that can judge master, are used to heavily they wear out and get tired of judging all the time.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately there are reasons for every single one of the requirements That are in place. 

Up until seven the seven year rule came in we still had people judging master tests that not only had never run a master dog, but they had never even walked a RETRIEVER to the line in a field event. 

Today there are an awful lot of judges who have never trained a dog. They went out a bought a dog, then hired a Pro to train it and handle it in events for them. On occasion they step in and handle the dog in a series or two, then they take a seminar, apprentice and start judging. Such individuals really lack the necessary knowledge and experience needed to design appropriate tests. The hurdles that are in place are there to help make certain the judges evaluating the dogs actually know what they're looking at.

Yes you're correct that the pool of qualified judges is small and it's getting smaller. My test expired last year and I've been dragging my feet about updating it. I had been judging five or six tests a year and I'm burned out. It's a lot easier to say no when your test is expired.

Field Trials aren't any easier. I'm looking for a pair of Judges right now for an O/H Q in June and I can't even get people to call me back. Then I have to find judges for a D/Q the first weekend in July.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

"What you get are dumb tests."


That is for sure.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

As I look at the master runs up here last summer. We have so few dogs running master, it's really amazing. But when I look at the list I see a lot are run by pros and not owner handled. I think I should spend some time cross referencing the dogs and handlers that have passed master and see if any have taken the test, and just need to apprentice. I found one person today. He took the class, but never got around to apprenticing. He's run a lot of times at all levels. So now I'm working on him to apprentice all the way up. Now I'm on the hunt to find more! If we spread out the work load, it will be so much easier. Crossing my fingers.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Here's a question I'm hoping that someone on here can answer. I have found someone that took the class 2 years ago. He's run plenty of times himself in master and senior with a lot of passes in both. He didn't apprentice last year due to an injury. So here's the question:

Can he just apprentice master and go ahead and judge master? I'm hoping he doesn't need to apprentice all 3 levels, then judge twice at each level before moving up. With only 6 hunt tests a year (3 double headers) in Alaska, it will take him years to get to judging master.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Alaska7133 said:


> Here's a question I'm hoping that someone on here can answer. I have found someone that took the class 2 years ago. He's run plenty of times himself in master and senior with a lot of passes in both. He didn't apprentice last year due to an injury. So here's the question:
> 
> Can he just apprentice master and go ahead and judge master? I'm hoping he doesn't need to apprentice all 3 levels, then judge twice at each level before moving up. With only 6 hunt tests a year (3 double headers) in Alaska, it will take him years to get to judging master.


Normally no, he would have to start at Junior and work his way up. 

The AKC has however worked with the Alaska Clubs in other areas where the remote distance has caused "hardships". It might be worth a call to Jerry Mann and ask about it.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Thanks! Our hunt test chair has a call in to Jerry. He's been up here before and knows the difficulties.

We have a few odd things that AKC has allowed us to do. Our distances and population locations have been an interesting issue over the years. We've now modified our 2 Anchorage clubs to have the same board members for both clubs. It's a lot easier that way and less confusion for everyone. It's the only way we can have enough events for our dogs to qualify.


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