# Fromm vs Purina Pro Plan vs Royal Canin Golden Retriever Food



## AllGoldenLove (Jul 26, 2020)

Hi there,
I've posted on this before and still don't know which I should choose as of course I don't know if there is a "best for Golden Retrievers" based on any objective information or data.
I am almost out of the Royal Canin Golden Retriever Puppy formula that I've been feeding my boy since he was 8 weeks old. 
He is about 17 months old, and the label on the bag says to switch him to Royal Canin Adult Golden Retriever food.
I think maybe he could have allergies from something in the food (maybe the chicken, since that's the main protein).
Some people have suggested environmental, but I'll start changing his food and see if that makes a difference.

I really like the idea of Fromm, and specifically their lamb one with grains (considering DCM concerns).

Anyone here fed their Golden Fromm for the long-term?

What might make one better than the other, specifically with regard to feeding a Golden that is about 17 months old?
(Fromm vs Purina Pro Plan vs Royal Canin Golden Retriever Food).

Besides marketing, habit, or only going after what the breeder might have recommended, what would be the reason to choose one over the other. 

Thanks in advance for the input and advice.


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## Hildae (Aug 15, 2012)

Fromm doesn't meet wsava guidelines so I wouldn't use that. PPP is a good food, used by many. RC is also a good food, but we prefer PPP.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

I feed raw and haven’t fed exclusively kibble in 15+ years, so I can’t speak to the long term use of any of these food, but FWIW…

I don’t care for the quality of the Royal Canin foods. Of the three you mention, I think Fromm has the highest quality ingredients, though I’d go with the chicken based, especially if you are concerned about DCM, since lamb as a whole has one of the lowest levels of natural taurine. I’m fine with Pro Plan (with a strong preference for the sensitive skin and stomach variety), I just don’t think the ingredients are as good as Fromm.


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## AllGoldenLove (Jul 26, 2020)

Hildae said:


> Fromm doesn't meet wsava guidelines so I wouldn't use that. PPP is a good food, used by many. RC is also a good food, but we prefer PPP.


Thanks for the input.
What is “wsava” and does it matter?


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## AllGoldenLove (Jul 26, 2020)

pawsnpaca said:


> I feed raw and haven’t fed exclusively kibble in 15+ years, so I can’t speak to the long term use of any of these food, but FWIW…
> 
> I don’t care for the quality of the Royal Canin foods. Of the three you mention, I think Fromm has the highest quality ingredients, though I’d go with the chicken based, especially if you are concerned about DCM, since lamb as a whole has one of the lowest levels of natural taurine. I’m fine with Pro Plan (with a strong preference for the sensitive skin and stomach variety), I just don’t think the ingredients are as good as Fromm.


Thank you. I have wanted to do raw since before I got my puppy. That was in my mind it to only feed him that, but then a lot of people, including my breeder mentioned that raw is not good early on.
I know that discussion is opening up Pandora’s box.
I would do raw if the price wasn’t super crazy and it was the healthiest option for him…
Thanks for your opinion about the foods. 
Makes sense.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

AllGoldenLove said:


> What is “wsava” and does it matter?


WASAVA is the World Small Animal Veterinary Association. World Small Animal Veterinary Association - WSAVA They put out a set of guidelines for pet foods that meet their standards, which only includes Hills Science Diet, Purina, Royal Canin, Iams and Eukanuba. However, not all agree that these guidelines are unbiased (especially since several of the recommended companies provide monetary support for WASAVA):








WSAVA, part 2: Pet food recommendations are now guidelines


The World Small Animal Veterinary Association made some useful revisions to its tool for selecting pet foods, yet in some cases failed to set a proper bar.



www.petfoodindustry.com




,


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

AllGoldenLove said:


> I would do raw if the price wasn’t super crazy and it was the healthiest option for him…


I hear you! There is definitely no getting around the fact that feeding raw is unbelievably expensive, especially compared to kibble.

Keep in mind that you dont have to go full-on raw to reap some benefits of unprocessed foods. One of the easiest things to do is to supplement your dog’s kibble with ”real” foods (eggs, canned fish, cottage cheese, lightly cooked meats, cooked or puréed veggies, etc.). The Dog Aware website has a a diet section that does a good job of suggesting appropriate additions.

You also have the option of just occasionally feeding a raw bone (marrow bone, beef knuckle, etc) for “recreational” chewing, or even a dehydrated or freeze dried raw, or actual raw, meal a few times a week. Most dogs don’t seem to have a big problem eating both raw and kibble (though, as with any food, it should be introduced gradually if your dog has been eating the same diet for a long time).


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Biggest thing for me with WSAVA is the feeding trials. I don't want my dog to be the feeding trial, ya know?


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

Eh. I don’t put a lot of weight in the feeding trials either. The trials only include (or have to use at least) eight dogs, and only 6 need to finish the trial. Usually the dogs are lab beagles (so a very specific group in a confined environment). The dog food being tested must keep six out of the eight apparently healthy adult dogs alive for six months (_Alive_. Not healthy, not thriving). Dogs must not lose more than 15% of their initial body weight, and the average of four certain blood values (hemoglobin, packed cell volume, serum alkaline phosphate, and serum albumin) must fall within acceptable levels. The test fails if dogs show signs of nutritional deficiency or toxicity. I doubt that things like DCM would even be caught given how brief the trial is, the limited number of things they test for, and the very limited data set.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

No retriever works and trains harder than a field trial retriever. The vast majority are fed PPP. Eukanuba is also popular.


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

If feeding trials are so easy and no big deal, why wouldn't all companies run trials? 😉

All things considered -- there are many diets that work for different dogs. Personally feeding an AAFCO and WSAVA compliant diet is what vets recommend (my vet is a repro vet, so thinking of potential breeding dogs in my home) so it's what I do. I also supplement with raw (10-15% of each meal) plus fresh toppers because it's what works. And there is no "best" for for every single dog. The DCM studies/investigation is still ongoing but personally until there is a definite answer, sticking with the big 5 brands, or making sure any other brand/formula doesn't contain peas, lentil, legumes, potatoes etc seems like the safest best for _most_ homes.


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## AllGoldenLove (Jul 26, 2020)

pawsnpaca said:


> WASAVA is the World Small Animal Veterinary Association. World Small Animal Veterinary Association - WSAVA They put out a set of guidelines for pet foods that meet their standards, which only includes Hills Science Diet, Purina, Royal Canin, Iams and Eukanuba. However, not all agree that these guidelines are unbiased (especially since several of the recommended companies provide monetary support for WASAVA):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for the clarification. It sounds like they are as not as legitimate as I would like. It’s like the US government and the pharmaceutical industry. They are all in bed with each other so why would I trust them.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

AllGoldenLove said:


> why would I trust them.


Would you trust the opinions of hundreds of retriever owners across the country that devote countless hours to and spare no expense in the training, care and health of their dogs?


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

AllGoldenLove said:


> Thank you for the clarification. It sounds like they are as not as legitimate as I would like. It’s like the US government and the pharmaceutical industry. They are all in bed with each other so why would I trust them.


I'd imagine the biggest thing WSAVA and AAFCO are in business for is canine health and nutrition. Purina (for example) employs over 400 veterinary nutritionists in line with those guidelines which many find to be important when formulating for for dogs.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

I’d have more faith in the veterinary nutritionists and their commitment to canine health if Purina didn’t also produce super _low_ quality foods like Beneful. 😕

I just checked the Purina website and counted only 2-3 _small animal_ nutritionists on their staff (happy to be corrected if you have a different source of info). According to the article I linked above (which was authored by a nutritionist who used to work for Hill’s) there are only 96 veterinarians (total) board-certified by the American College of Veterinary Nutrition. Of those 96, 83% work for academia, veterinary practices or as consultants. Which means that only 16 work for pet food companies (and of those, most work in marketing, not R&D).

I‘m yet to be convinced that either WSAVA or AAFCO have the health and wellbeing of animals as their _primary_ goal… at least not in a way that isn’t greatly influenced by the big pet food companies or Big Ag. I think both organizations play a vital role in regulating the industry, I’m just not willing to consider them the final word in what makes a healthy pet food… there are just too many outside influences that bias them toward the huge pet food manufacturers…

[Update: the link I provided above to the Purina site goes to their livestock site. I _think_ this is the correct link to their pet food experts: Purina’s Pet Experts | Purina. I’m still only seeing four veterinary nutritionists, only one is listed on the ACVN site, and that vet works in their vet tech communications group, not in R&D.]


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

I don’t tend to pay too much attention to wsava. I worked in the pet food industry for awhile, I’m over it. You’ll also find that far many more brands than just the big 5 employ veterinary nutritionists on staff.

Regardless, currently both of my dogs are eating one of the big 5 foods. Kaizer is on Royal Canin bc prescription, Eden’s eating Pro Plan SSS salmon bc her other food is out of stock. Pro Plan changed a bunch of their ingredients after the pandemic (food shortages? whatever) so the SSS now has pea protein where it never used to. I’m unsure how I feel about that, so I won’t keep feeding her that food forever. I’ll likely switch back to my non-WSAVA compliant food as soon as I can. I guess the caveat is that if she does even better on this food than her old food.

At the end of the day, just feed whatever your dog does best on.


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## Hildae (Aug 15, 2012)

AllGoldenLove said:


> Thanks for the input.
> What is “wsava” and does it matter?


The world small animal veterinary association, and it matters very much. If a food can't be bothered to meet their guidelines, I'm not comfortable feeding it to my dogs. ETA the guidelines are about much more than just employing a board certified nutritionist and feeding trials.


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## Hildae (Aug 15, 2012)

pawsnpaca said:


> I just checked the Purina website and counted only 2-3 _small animal_ nutritionists on their staff


For what it's worth, the website you linked is their livestock (Purina MILLS...horses, cattle, sheep etc) page. I'm not sure if the other website would have more info or not.


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## kidfrcleve (11 mo ago)

My neighbor had an Akita and he fed him raw, $2000/month, so he said. His Akita passed from bone cancer at 12. So I would say that environment plays a larger part than food. But food type is also important.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

Hildae said:


> For what it's worth, the website you linked is their livestock (Purina MILLS...horses, cattle, sheep etc) page. I'm not sure if the other website would have more info or not.


Thanks for pointing that out! I _think_ this is the correct link (I’ll update my original post as well): Purina’s Pet Experts | Purina

Per this ^^ link they have 4 individuals who are referred to as either “veterinary nutritionists” or “ pet nutritionists” ( not sure what the difference is). I could only find one of them listed on the Diplomate Directory site. And ironically, the vet I found on the ACVN site is listed as being part of their veterinary technical communications group, not part of research and development.


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## AllGoldenLove (Jul 26, 2020)

pawsnpaca said:


> I hear you! There is definitely no getting around the fact that feeding raw is unbelievably expensive, especially compared to kibble.
> 
> Keep in mind that you dont have to go full-on raw to reap some benefits of unproceesed foods. One of the easiest things to do is to supplement your dog’s kibble with ”real” foods (eggs, canned fish, cottage cheese, lightly cooked meats, cooked or puréed veggies, etc.). The Dog Aware website has a a diet section that does a good job of suggesting appropriate additions.
> 
> You also have the option of just occasionally feeding a raw bone (marrow bone, beef knuckle, etc) for “recreational” chewing, or even a dehydrated or freeze dried raw, or actual raw, meal a few times a week. Most dogs don’t seem to have a big problem eating both raw and kibble (though, as with any food, it should be introduced gradually if your dog has been eating the same diet for a long time).


Thank you! Yes, I feed him raw, organic pasture raised egg yolks a couple times a week along with some lightly cooked/primarily raw grass-fed beef from time to time. 
I think adding freeze-dried raw supplements to the top of his kibble would be a great option. I've seen a lot of companies are making these as toppers/supplements now


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

_puts on troublemaker hat for the moment_

DCM has kinda faded away from everyone's focus because as we speak - there has still not been any proven connection between dog food and DCM.

To put into context, compare to the times where Blue Buffalo got into big trouble over having too much of X or Y vitamins in the food and poisoning dogs.

Or even the menadione supplement from China poisoning dogs - that likewise was swiftly identified and solved.

With the DCM thing - it's apparently more of a struggle to connect the dots when you have 4-5 brands that are off limits. That calls into question the validity of results when these researchers claim that other dog foods are causing DCM because dogs can't handle pea protein or grain free kibbles..... while the 4-5 brands they are protecting have the same grain free kibbles and pea protein and brown rice and so on and so forth.

A little extra craziness - Purina (one the golden gods for some) owns some of the companies which people say don't feed because they aren't WSAVA approved, and blahblahblah.

When FDA came out and named brands - it basically did no good other than stirring the pot for all of the Pro Plan and Science Diet folks who were waiting for the opportunity to get back at all the food snob folks. 

^^^ I'm saying that flippantly enough, but more seriously - I just feel like there's too much politics that gets in the works regarding DCM. And I think that's terrible because it obviously is a real issue and isn't just hereditary (which I think it is in part). I truly hope that clear minded researchers do get to the bottom of the issue, including feeding trials that do not exclude any brands.

Otherwise - between those options, I probably would pick Pro Plan over Fromm and Royal Canin. My issue with Fromm is when I fed it to my dogs (when I travel, I just buy a small bag of kibble and typically this is when the dogs get fed other brands than I normally feed because small bags for the kibble I feed can be a bit overpriced), the kibble looked like it had sat on the shelf a bit long. It was one of the kibbles that my one dog (finicky eater) refused to eat. Issue with RC - you are paying through the nose for kibble full of corn.

IF feeding Pro Plan - be careful when selecting formulas. Some are better than others. I don't feed to my dogs because they'd have big poops on the adult food. Pro Plan puppy food - I love feeding my pups.

My adult boys eat Merrick Backcountry with Grains. Normal poops, healthy coats, health skin, etc... both boys got their heart clearances at around 2 years old each while eating Merrick, no complaints.


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## AllGoldenLove (Jul 26, 2020)

Megora said:


> _puts on troublemaker hat for the moment_
> 
> DCM has kinda faded away from everyone's focus because as we speak - there has still not been any proven connection between dog food and DCM.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for the great feedback.
What I’m dealing with now (this get so overwhelming) is trying to eliminate chicken, because I have a feeling that could be contributing to his allergies he scratches all day and goes to town that his paws… ever since I got him at eight weeks old.
To try to figure it out, I think I will not feed him the Royal Canin anymore now as it looks like the golden retriever one is just primarily chicken (and corn, as you say).
I looked into Purina Pro Plan, and was considering the salmon, but I really don’t trust that the salmon is safe.
It looks like it is from farms owned by Purina from what I saw on the website, but they don’t specifically say the salmon is not farm raised.
I just can’t trust that. I know it’s not wild caught salmon.
So now I am lost again because I’m trying to find a good food, and a good protein, that would work.
Maybe I’ll do the Merrick.
I’ve heard good things from other people about the Merrick as well…
I just want to make sure that at 17 months of age, he is getting the right protein and grains.
Just to be safe, and I really don’t know enough about the science, but I’d rather give them some thing with grains considering the possible connection to DCM without them… just not sure.
What Merrick food specifically are you giving your Goldens? What protein(s). I'm trying to not add several different meats as once. Even on the Merrick ingredients for one of the Backcountry formulas I see there are so many different protein sources, and again CHICKEN 
*(Ingredients*
Deboned Beef, Salmon Meal, Chicken Meal, Brown Rice, Dried Egg Product, Oatmeal, Barley, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat*). *I do see on their website that they have single source protein formula, though... seem like a great brand.

...and am always skeptical of the beef, poultry, or fish from any company. I'm trying to avoid proteins that were fed too much corn, chemicals, or antibiotics. Ideally, the beef would be grass-fed, any poultry would be free of antibiotics and free range, and the fish would be wild.
Are you adding anything else to that food?
Thanks again


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I think if you can't feed chicken, that limits you quite a bit.

I typically rotate between Great Plains Red and Pacific Catch - with grains. I believe Pacific Catch doesn't have chicken in it.

I do not add anything to kibble.

Itchies with dogs can also be environmental.

One of the breeders behind my dogs had a dobie with either skin or gut issues (or both) so all her goldens were fed Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach - because it was practical just buying one formula for all the dogs. That was back in 2012... believe PP changed formulas since then. No corn or chicken in that formula.


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## AllGoldenLove (Jul 26, 2020)

Megora said:


> I think if you can't feed chicken, that limits you quite a bit.
> 
> I typically rotate between Great Plains Red and Pacific Catch - with grains. I believe Pacific Catch doesn't have chicken in it.
> 
> ...


Thank you.


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## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

AllGoldenLove said:


> Thank you. I have wanted to do raw since before I got my puppy. That was in my mind it to only feed him that, but then a lot of people, including my breeder mentioned that raw is not good early on.
> I know that discussion is opening up Pandora’s box.
> I would do raw if the price wasn’t super crazy and it was the healthiest option for him…
> Thanks for your opinion about the foods.
> Makes sense.


Weaned on to raw at the breeder and raw fed since. If you are interested in raw, and willing to take the time to learn, do it. I personally won't feed anything else again unless there's a medical reason not to.
.


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## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

kidfrcleve said:


> My neighbor had an Akita and he fed him raw, $2000/month, so he said. His Akita passed from bone cancer at 12. So I would say that environment plays a larger part than food. But food type is also important.


lol, I feed 3 dogs raw, using premium, human grade, every protein imaginable, chicken, beef, turkey, duck, lamb, boar, elk, venison, kangaroo, bison, sardines, herring, mackerel, smelts, raw meaty bones, organs, etc. and I pay about $500. So I think he was exaggerating. I do agree that environment plays a big part. Vaccines, flea and tick meds, household toxins, bug sprays, etc etc etc. Those kinds of things play a huge part.


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## StanleyMum (Dec 27, 2020)

AllGoldenLove said:


> Hi there,
> I've posted on this before and still don't know which I should choose as of course I don't know if there is a "best for Golden Retrievers" based on any objective information or data.
> I am almost out of the Royal Canin Golden Retriever Puppy formula that I've been feeding my boy since he was 8 weeks old.
> He is about 17 months old, and the label on the bag says to switch him to Royal Canin Adult Golden Retriever food.
> ...


Ted has allergies and cytopoint cleared them up miraculously. He was licking and scratching and getting ear infections all the time (yeast) - my first instinct was food but our vet said that is actually quite unlikely. Change food if you like (and if you suspect allergy Hills and Pro Plan have some good options) but you will need to do a proper elimination trial as well if allergies continue. I’d really encourage you to check out the environmental side first, I am so glad we did. Here’s our vet.









Food Allergy & Itchy Dogs | 5 Traps To Avoid | Walkerville Vet


If you have an itchy dog, it doesn't take long before someone tells you it's due to the food. Usually that someone also offers an alternative. It's not a case of people trying to pull a fast one; they just believe in what they use. Who doesn't? If all you have is a hammer,…




www.walkervillevet.com.au


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## AllGoldenLove (Jul 26, 2020)

Thank you


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## sam (May 21, 2005)

Hildae said:


> Fromm doesn't meet wsava guidelines so I wouldn't use that. PPP is a good food, used by many. RC is also a good food, but we prefer PPP.


Agree. And my Golden had terrible GI issues on Fromm that took months to resolve.


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## sam (May 21, 2005)

One of the breeders behind my dogs had a dobie with either skin or gut issues (or both) so all her goldens were fed Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach - because it was practical just buying one formula for all the dogs. That was back in 2012... believe PP changed formulas since then. No corn or chicken in that formula.
[/QUOTE]
One of my Goldens (7 yo) has been thriving on PPP SSS (used to have a history of itchy skin, but not on this food), and my 3 yo has been on Hills Biome due to unknown GI issue and has been fine on it.


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## AllGoldenLove (Jul 26, 2020)

Well, finally got a food that’s different that seems to be going pretty well so far.





Red Meat & Grains Recipe


ACANA Wholesome Grains Red Meat & Grains recipe is packed with our delicious ranch-raised beef, Yorkshire pork, and grass-fed lamb, and complemented with wholesome grains like oats, sorghum, and millet. These grains are high in fiber and gluten-free, offering added nutrition that helps support a...




www.acana.com




The Acana with grains and beef.
Although I’m always concerned that these companies are pulling tricks by saying things like a “ranch raised” beef, I looked a little deeper and it looks like the quality might be OK…
I don’t know if it’s fully grass fed, but may be close (?).
Either way, it seems like it’s going well with him.


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## Hildae (Aug 15, 2012)

AllGoldenLove said:


> Well, finally got a food that’s different that seems to be going pretty well so far.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Acana, both it's grain free and grain inclusive foods, has had the highest number cases of DCM associated with them. Just a point of information.


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## AllGoldenLove (Jul 26, 2020)

Hildae said:


> Acana, both it's grain free and grain inclusive foods, has had the highest number cases of DCM associated with them. Just a point of information.


Why would the DCM be associated with in the food?
There’s always something that people say about any food and nothing seems to go without serious criticism… unless it’s PPP which everybody endorses here.


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## Hildae (Aug 15, 2012)

AllGoldenLove said:


> Why would the DCM be associated with in the food?
> There’s always something that people say about any food and nothing seems to go without serious criticism… unless it’s PPP which everybody endorses here.


Not everyone uses PPP here, but it is a highly respected food used by many.

Here is the FDA chart showing which foods had the most cases, and another showing which breeds were most affected. This is not genetic DCM, this is nutritionally caused DCM.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

AllGoldenLove said:


> Why would the DCM be associated with in the food?
> There’s always something that people say about any food and nothing seems to go without serious criticism… unless it’s PPP which everybody endorses here.


It’s a correlation, not a causation… yet.

I’m one that will recommend Pro Plan to other people, but don’t use it myself. When they changed the sport 30/20 formula a little over a year ago, Eevee had a bad reaction to it: vomiting, diarrhea, and unilateral facial edema (twice). When I called to tell them about it, their response was “we’re sorry, but we’ll send you some coupons”.

I switched to Annamaet and have been extremely pleased. Things improved that I didn’t even realize were a food related issue. Annamaet is owned by one of the premier canine nutritionists in the country. He also has a board certified veterinary nutritionist on staff.

Acana is one that does make me wary because of the number of dogs that got DCM while on it. However, it really comes down to which food your dog does the best eating. It’s a highly personal decision.


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## AllGoldenLove (Jul 26, 2020)

Hildae said:


> Not everyone uses PPP here, but it is a highly respected food used by many.
> 
> Here is the FDA chart showing which foods had the most cases, and another showing which breeds were most affected. This is not genetic DCM, this is nutritionally caused DCM.
> View attachment 890446
> View attachment 890447


Thanks for the data. 
I guess as* ArkansasGold *says, it's correlation, not causation... so far.
So, I wonder what guesses people have with regard to Acana in particular.

I thought Diet-Associated DCM had to do with grain-free diets leading to taurine deficiency. 
I guess the jury is still out on that. If we're using an Acana grain-inclusive food, then I wonder what the link would be; what is it about the food that might have such high cases of DCM associated with it?

Orijen is relatively low on the reported cases which is interesting as Acana and Orijen are the same company. Yes, they make different foods for different consumers/dogs, but again, I wonder why Acana is the highest list of DCM cases.


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## AllGoldenLove (Jul 26, 2020)

ArkansasGold said:


> It’s a correlation, not a causation… yet.
> 
> I’m one that will recommend Pro Plan to other people, but don’t use it myself. When they changed the sport 30/20 formula a little over a year ago, Eevee had a bad reaction to it: vomiting, diarrhea, and unilateral facial edema (twice). When I called to tell them about it, their response was “we’re sorry, but we’ll send you some coupons”.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the bringing up Annamaet. I'd never heard of it. 
As it's not one of the larger brands - and I don't know if I fully agree with this argument I've heard many times - would a brand like this have enough vets, trials, and "science" behind it to prove the efficacy of the food in the long-term?

Looking at the ingredients for the "Option Formula" I see they use canola oil and the salmon is likely not wild (I'm usually concerned about farm-raised salmon). Of course on Chewy, the brand says the following -


> Whenever wild-caught salmon is available, it is sourced for this diet. When not available, farm-raised Salmon from the Pacific Northwest is used to ensure the recipe is still available for the members of our furry families.


So in other words, they use farm-raised salmon.
I realize it's whatever works for the dog you have, then use that. I'm still fairly new to this and don't know certain what works now or, of course, what will work for the long-term.
I'd love to provide the cleanest food possible, so if that requires me to anthropomorphize my dog and feed him in many ways the way I choose to eat for my health, then I'll do it.

Thanks for your input.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

AllGoldenLove said:


> what is it about the food that might have such high cases of DCM associated with it?


The main hypothesis I’m hearing these days is that it’s not the “grain-free” part, it’s replacing grains and animal protein with legumes (peas, lentils, chickpeas, etc.). The thought is that legumes interfere with the taurine manufacturing process in the body. 


AllGoldenLove said:


> would a brand like this have enough vets, trials, and "science" behind it to prove the efficacy of the food in the long-term?


The founder uses the formulas on his own dogs, so yes, IMO. He did the research that led to a transformation in kibble formulation. It was long assumed that dogs used carbs as their main source of energy for strenuous activities, like humans do. Mr. Downey disproved that and found that dogs as a species use fat more efficiently than carbs. He tested this on his sled dogs (he did/does competitive sled dog racing) and found that a higher fat content proved better for stamina. He’s the reason that performance formulas, like 30/20, exist.

I’m not saying you should jump on the Annamaet train, just trying to answer your questions. I know of other dogs that have tried it (probably not the right formula for the dog, but 🤷🏼‍♀️) and it was too rich for them.

I highly recommend listening to episodes of Pure Dog Talk in which Gayle Watkins talks about dog nutrition.


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

I like Annamaet a lot too and used it successfully with my oldest dog when he was a puppy. I’ve met the founder/owner of the company, Robert Downey, and he is very knowledgeable. I attended a seminar he did and learned a lot. I will feed it again when I have the urge to switch my youngest dog’s food (because variety is the spice of life and there are so many brands of dog food I’m intrigued by).


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## AllGoldenLove (Jul 26, 2020)

ArkansasGold said:


> The main hypothesis I’m hearing these days is that it’s not the “grain-free” part, it’s replacing grains and animal protein with legumes (peas, lentils, chickpeas, etc.). The thought is that legumes interfere with the taurine manufacturing process in the body.
> 
> The founder uses the formulas on his own dogs, so yes, IMO. He did the research that led to a transformation in kibble formulation. It was long assumed that dogs used carbs as their main source of energy for strenuous activities, like humans do. Mr. Downey disproved that and found that dogs as a species use fat more efficiently than carbs. He tested this on his sled dogs (he did/does competitive sled dog racing) and found that a higher fat content proved better for stamina. He’s the reason that performance formulas, like 30/20, exist.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much. That makes a lot of sense. For myself, to anthropomorphize the dog again, I believe that a higher fat diet is healthier in most cases. High carbs is usually not the way unless you are running a marathon or doing extra special activities beyond the norm.
I appreciate the information.


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## AllGoldenLove (Jul 26, 2020)

aesthetic said:


> I like Annamaet a lot too and used it successfully with my oldest dog when he was a puppy. I’ve met the founder/owner of the company, Robert Downey, and he is very knowledgeable. I attended a seminar he did and learned a lot. I will feed it again when I have the urge to switch my youngest dog’s food (because variety is the spice of life and there are so many brands of dog food I’m intrigued by).


Thanks for the input


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## v.c. 236 (Oct 3, 2020)

AllGoldenLove said:


> Thanks for the bringing up Annamaet. I'd never heard of it.
> As it's not one of the larger brands - and I don't know if I fully agree with this argument I've heard many times - would a brand like this have enough vets, trials, and "science" behind it to prove the efficacy of the food in the long-term?
> 
> Looking at the ingredients for the "Option Formula" I see they use canola oil and the salmon is likely not wild (I'm usually concerned about farm-raised salmon). Of course on Chewy, the brand says the following -
> ...


Just saw your post. I contacted Annamaet because we are thinking of using it for my new puppy. They recommended the Medium and Large breed formulation. I think it has fewer calories then option. They addressed all my concerns and we are going to give them a try.


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## Rundlemtn (Jan 16, 2015)

Sooo, I too am an Acana feeder, and so was obviously very concerned when the reports of linking Acana to DCM came out. Looking into it, it's really important to know that it wasn't ALL of the Acana foods that were called into question. It was specifically their Acana Singles lines, which were limited ingredient foods marketed to dogs with allergies. Unfortunately, in these lines they replaced a large amount of their protein ingredients with pea/lentil ingredients, which caused an issue in some dogs prone to DCM. I feed my dogs Acana grain free wild prairie/ranchlands/grasslands/pacifica, which has a higher concentration of protein, whole-prey based, and American sourced meats (the latter being very important to me). The pea/lentil concentration in these bags were very low compared to singles brand. Once Acana realized the possible link between high concentrations of peas/lentils and DCM they adjusted their Singles brand formulas. So, I'm not convinced that feeding any of the Acana lines should still be of concern. I appreciate their use of high quality, locally sourced ingredients and the fact that they have never had a recall on any of their foods. Ultimately, we're all doing the best we can to feed our dogs what we think is the best option for them. And as people said, if your dog is thriving on a particular food, than that is probably your best evidence as their are so many options out there, a lot of differing opinions, and not much in the way of good evidence for feeding one way over another.

Edit to add: I did feed RC Golden Retriever Puppy food up until one year of age though due to the ratios of protein among other ingredients.


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