# E Collars



## St. Louis (May 28, 2012)

I have a 1 year old male, and he loves to eat everything from socks to laundry pods. Our trainer has recommended a muzzles and he continues to eat socks. Our vet has recommended for his safety an E collar by Tritronics.
Have you used this method before and has it been successful?


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

How about keeping the socks and laundry out of reach?


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## Kylie (Feb 16, 2013)

E collars/shock collars are a bit of a hot topic on the forum (especially with this thread going on http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...teresting-thoughts-reward-based-training.html) so keep that in mind when reading answers to your question. Anyways not sure that is would work for that behavior problem and definitely wouldn't be my answer to the problem. I have used shock collars (I prefer to not sugar coat things and call things what they are), but only to teach recall. I would just try to keep the laundry out of reach, or keep the laundry door shut.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

If you're not there to see him getting into the socks, the ecollar isn't going to work. How can you reinforce the behavior if it's not witnessed? I like the others above, recommend keeping socks out of his reach. If he can't be trusted loose, consider crating him for his safety.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Dogs can die from eating laundry pods. Keep them in a cabinet!


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

I agree - have you tried a hamper that closes on top? Winston is a sock thief mastermind and we just keep the socks out of reach.


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## robinrd (Oct 30, 2012)

My golden is 10 months and he loves socks too and I just keep them put away. I also have an e collar. I took him to training and they use the e collar. My main thing I use it for is recall. I did used it in the beginning when he would jump and jump and bite and pinch with his teeth and he would not stop no matter what so it did help with that and I hardly use it anymore unless I am taking him somewhere where he is off leash and I think I may need it. I would not use for minor things I just keep things put away and he is getting better. I never thought I would use an e collar it was my last resort he isn't my first dog but my first golden and he has been more challenging than the others but I love him so much! I would not use it on him for something like keeping him away from shoes or socks. Good luck


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

I won't sugar coat it either. I do use an "e collar" and there is no shock involved. However this is not the right tool to use on a dog that eats things his owner can't keep out of his reach. Keep them out of his reach and you won't have the problem.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I feel your pain, I have one that eats everything that isnt nailed down.... I do keep everything put away, all bedroom doors are kept shut, laundry baskets/hampers that have vents are ducked taped so he cant pull clothes through the vents,and are kept behind clothes doors, There is nothing on my coffee tables, nothing on my kitchen table, no pillows on my couches. I keep everything bare. If I leave a room he goes with me, he cant be left alone for 1 second. He has been in training for 9 months and we still work on this everyday.


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## Leslie B (Mar 17, 2011)

I have used the Tritronics collars and I think that they are great. They are a wonderfull tool to reinforce WHAT THE DOG ALREADY KNOWS. It can tighten up the response to a command.

You can use the collar to reinforce the "leave it" command and therefore to avoid items or areas in your home but first you would have to collar condition the dog. If you do not know how to do this there are a number of DVD's that demonstrate the process. Even Graham and Mike Lardy both do a good job of these.

The bottom line is that the collar is not a quick fix. 

Keep the laundry in the closet and keep the closet door closed.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

I have another one who loves all forms of clothes from socks to underware to shirts. We are not a neat couple. Never have been and never will be, but we contain our messiness in the bedroom, a room that Tayla is not allowed into. I am working with her on boundaries and what she can and can't have with some success. She used to be bad with hand towels and now she is much better at leaving them alone. I don't believe in the use of e-collars. My belief and I won't debate the issue. I will say that for safety sake you need to teach a good and reliable "leave it", "out" or "drop it". Is Tayla's 100% reliable, no, not yet, but it is pretty good for most things except bones and cat poop she finds outside. We are still working on those things.


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

E collars are illegal here in Germany. But in America, I had an invisible fence around the perimeter of our property, and a physical one in the front as we lived on a major road where their life depended on it, and it only reinforced their training to the boundaries. I believe hunting dogs can and often should use an e collar, again to reinforce when long distance recalls are essential. Their lives can depend on it.

For everyday use, NO. There are much better ways to keep socks from dogs! When I am not home, Ellie is not allowed upstairs in the bedrooms, so the doors are closed and a baby gate at the stairs.


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## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

I have to agree here. Bentley is the same way, he will eat anything. I would really be leery of a trainer that suggests using a muzzle for this problem. Sure, it may stop him from eating a sock in that moment but what has it taught the dog? Nothing.

With Bentley it is an everyday, every moment training session. He has to learn that he can not eat socks or anything else, ever. What is the trainers plan as far as the muzzle? Is he supposed to wear it his entire life? What kind of life is that?
Same for a e-collar. Sure you could zap him but what is he learning from that? Oh mommy has that thing in her hand so I better not eat this sock right now.

Please, please take the time to train the dog what is not allowed. If my trainer told me to use a muzzle in this situation I would immediately find a new trainer. The trainer we're currently with did recommend a shock collar for Bentley. We are finishing up the last couple of classes WITHOUT the collar and will be using a different trainer from now on.

Your puppy is only one year old. Now is the time to train him so that he can live a happy, stress free life. Trust me, I know training isn't easy in this situation and it takes a lot out of you but it is absolutely necessary. Good luck.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

St. Louis said:


> I have a 1 year old male, and he loves to eat everything from socks to laundry pods. Our trainer has recommended a muzzles and he continues to eat socks. Our vet has recommended for his safety an E collar by Tritronics.
> Have you used this method before and has it been successful?


My goodness you've brought up a lot of hot topics since signing up, haven't you.... :

As far as laundry, I know how difficult it can be training family members to stop tossing their clothes down the steps instead of taking them directly to the laundry room and/or putting their clothes away.... 

Same thing with keeping track of a busy or bored young dog who is constantly getting into things. And that's getting consistent help from family when you yourself can't be there keeping an eye on your dog.

My mom was complaining about my Bertie and telling me about how he snatches things and jumps on counters and so forth. This despite my assertions that I never have any problems, and he is most definitely trained not to do all that.

I had her sit there in the kitchen while Bertie was loose. 

- Bertie went walking towards the kitchen counters and when he was within a foot of the counter, I told him "No, leave it" and he immediately backed away and went off to do something else. 

I took a piece of bread and held it in the air to tempt him to jump up, the instant his feet left the floor, I told him "off" and he immediately tucked his feet in and dropped back to the floor. Another tempt and he made no attempt to jump up. 

And then I showed my mom how I want her to give treats to him, as well as the command word (take it nice). 

And I had her use the other commands a different day so she knows they work for people other than myself. 

And what it came down to is my parents were using the wrong commands and allowing Bertie to self-reward for bad behaviors with them when of course those wrong commands did not work. 

I know it's going to be a work in progress helping my parents remember those commands until Bertie matures and settles down. 

As it was, it was gratifying to show that - yes, he is trained and backed up what I was asking of them - which is to use the same commands and reinforcement that I do. 

In a roundabout way I'm saying you have to have a set training plan with your dog, and the entire family needs to be on the same page as to how to reinforce that training. IMO, this does not have to use any tools other than your voice and hands. There is no rough handling necessary. I would be very matter of fact in teaching your dog to bring things to you and trade for treats. Don't make a big deal about them having something they shouldn't. Just trade and put the clothes away.


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## KeaColorado (Jan 2, 2013)

I apologize if this has already been mentioned, and maybe the answer is obvious...but have you provided your pup with appropriate toys with which to play and chew? 

If you can't have eyes on your dog 100% of the time when he's loose in the house, he should be crated or gated in a safe place. If your eyes are on him and he goes for the laundry, take it away and replace it with one of the aforementioned appropriate toys in conjunction with lots of praise. I told myself with my puppy that if she got into anything naughty, it was my fault and not hers. I then modified MY behaviors to set her up for success and perhaps more importantly, keep her safe. 

I don't think an e-collar would work very well in this situation.


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## Leslie B (Mar 17, 2011)

KeaColorado said:


> I apologize if this has already been mentioned, and maybe the answer is obvious...but have you provided your pup with appropriate toys with which to play and chew?
> 
> If you can't have eyes on your dog 100% of the time when he's loose in the house, he should be crated or gated in a safe place. If your eyes are on him and he goes for the laundry, take it away and replace it with one of the aforementioned appropriate toys in conjunction with lots of praise. I told myself with my puppy that if she got into anything naughty, it was my fault and not hers. I then modified MY behaviors to set her up for success and perhaps more importantly, keep her safe.
> 
> I don't think an e-collar would work very well in this situation.


 
I had to laugh a little at the toy thing. For my dogs, there could be a dozen toys on the floor and they will find the sock/dish towel/slipper and bring it to me. There is something so irresistable about the white color and the scent of their family that is like Golden Retriever crack cocaine. The only thing they like more has feathers on it!!

For young dogs, the only way they can keep their prize is to eat it so it is not surprising that the pup is swallowing something so odd as a sock. I have a giant bottle of hydrogen peroxide on hand to get the pup to throw up if they eat anything that is not appropiate. However, you need to do this within a hour of them eating the item. Do it outside or at least in the garage!!! Usually a shot glass of the stuff does the trick. I have retrieved a number of my husbands work gloves in this fashion.

One thing you might want to work on is the "hold" command. It is an element of force fetch that we use for field work. I have found once the pup has the hold command down I can use it with items that they want to eat but should not. 

Like the "trade" command - it does require work on your part to teach the dog the what you want him to do. 

Good Luck


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

Megora said:


> My goodness you've brought up a lot of hot topics since signing up, haven't you.... :
> 
> As far as laundry, I know how difficult it can be training family members to stop tossing their clothes down the steps instead of taking them directly to the laundry room and/or putting their clothes away....
> 
> ...


Like the end about bringing you things. That's what Tayla does for me. When hubby screws up and let's her get something she brings it to me and I tell her out and she gives it back.


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## KeaColorado (Jan 2, 2013)

Leslie B said:


> I had to laugh a little at the toy thing. For my dogs, there could be a dozen toys on the floor and they will find the sock/dish towel/slipper and bring it to me. There is something so irresistable about the white color and the scent of their family that is like Golden Retriever crack cocaine. The only thing they like more has feathers on it!!
> 
> For young dogs, the only way they can keep their prize is to eat it so it is not surprising that the pup is swallowing something so odd as a sock. I have a giant bottle of hydrogen peroxide on hand to get the pup to throw up if they eat anything that is not appropiate. However, you need to do this within a hour of them eating the item. Do it outside or at least in the garage!!! Usually a shot glass of the stuff does the trick. I have retrieved a number of my husbands work gloves in this fashion.
> 
> ...


We are lucky Kea has never been an eater of golden retriever crack cocaine. She did eat an entire bottle of her skin and coat supplements that resulted in a trip to the emergency vet. We are pretty sure the cat knocked them off the shelf. I swear those two are in cahoots. 

When I was a kid, my parents had a springer spaniel they taught to 'trade' naughty items for a treat. She had some issues and was not the kind of dog that appreciated someone reaching into her mouth to remove the item. When we would sit down to dinner, she would search the floor for a piece of paper, tissue or stray article of barbie doll clothing. She would then come and sit next to the table chomping loudly, not trying to EAT the item, but as if to say, hey, I will give you this if you will give me something from your plate. When one of us would look at her, she would stop chewing and, I kid you not, the item would be hanging out of her mouth. That dog sure was good at training her humans. :doh: The moral of the story is make sure you know who is training whom.


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## St. Louis (May 28, 2012)

Thanks everyone for you suggestions. We are working with one of the top obedience trainers in the country, who also has a degree in animal behavior. The muzzle was not lightly suggested. Likewise, our vet, who I have been going to for over 35 years, suggested the e-collar for the dog's safety and the hope of preventing a situation that requires surgery. 

Also, our house is free of clothes on the floor, but there are moments when the kids and grandkids accidently take their socks off, our little guy can find them. Yes, he is a work in progress and we are not taking the easy way on training. He is very good in obedience (recalls) and retrieving things. He has a strong drive for socks and plastic bags. 

Thanks,
Gus's Dad


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Mind sharing who this instructor is..... if top in the country?


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## St. Louis (May 28, 2012)

Megora,

I indicated that she is one of the top. There are several very good instructors in the U.S.; the person that I am referring to is Sharon West. She has a degree in animal behavior from Purdue. She is outstanding in that she breaks every component down from the dogs to the handler. 

Another outstanding thing that she does, is that she will bring in other top obedience instructors in the country to her site for the handlers to work with.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Thanks<:

Do you train at her club? (looks _nice_)

What is her suggestion as far as handling the household issues? I assume she's not on the same page as the vet recommending the ecollar?


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Can't imagine a top obedience trainer recommending a muzzle to stop sock chewing. 


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## St. Louis (May 28, 2012)

Yes, I do train two dogs at her training facility. Narib, I don't think you can be critical, unless you are directly working with the dog. You, might do something different, but each dog is different. No, the muzzle is not the cure all. There is no cookie cutter design in dog/handler training. 

The basis of the question(s) was asking one's opinion not one's criticism.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

It seems like the natural response would be "put the socks away." That's what I would assume any trainer would say, but apparently not....


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

St. Louis said:


> Thanks everyone for you suggestions. We are working with one of the top obedience trainers in the country, who also has a degree in animal behavior. The muzzle was not lightly suggested. Likewise, our vet, who I have been going to for over 35 years, suggested the e-collar for the dog's safety and the hope of preventing a situation that requires surgery.
> 
> Also, our house is free of clothes on the floor, but there are moments when the kids and grandkids accidently take their socks off, our little guy can find them. Yes, he is a work in progress and we are not taking the easy way on training. He is very good in obedience (recalls) and retrieving things. He has a strong drive for socks and plastic bags.
> 
> ...


If the training is directed at keeping the socks out of the dogs mouth, presence would be required, making it just as easy to take it away from the dog. The muzzle, well, that's just cruel unless absolutely necessary, in my humble opinion. 

Better thing to do is explain to your kids the danger, and expect your grand children's parent to actually parent the children. There are consequences. My dog has a strong drive for paper. She will shred my sons collector cards in a heartbeat! So, his bedroom door is closed, and she has no access to the upstairs when she is not supervised. No strong arming required.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Well, I used a muzzle on my Tiki who tried to kill herself eating the iris rhizomes in my garden. It was a basket muzzle and there was nothing cruel about it. She could still bark (and she did) and she could still pant so she would not overheat. Eventually, she out grew her taste for iris plants... But she got very sick when she ate them..adverse effects in her liver. I raised my kids to not leave socks lying around. At an early age, I told them they would choke and die. An oversimplification for sure, but they never left their socks where the dog could get them. My dogs don not have access to half of the upstairs where they could get into trouble . They sleep in our bedroom, but I have trained my husband well to put his clothes in the laundry basket...


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## Ohiomom9977 (Jul 27, 2012)

Sally's Mom said:


> Well, I used a muzzle on my Tiki who tried to kill herself eating the iris rhizomes in my garden. It was a basket muzzle and there was nothing cruel about it. She could still bark (and she did) and she could still pant so she would not overheat. Eventually, she out grew her taste for iris plants... But she got very sick when she ate them..adverse effects in her liver. I raised my kids to not leave socks lying around. At an early age, I told them they would choke and die. An oversimplification for sure, but they never left their socks where the dog could get them. My dogs don not have access to half of the upstairs where they could get into trouble . They sleep in our bedroom, but I have trained my husband well to put his clothes in the laundry basket...


I told my kids the same thing about the socks (that it could kill him). At ages 6 & 9 they've done excellent with not leaving stuff laying around. We also have our upstairs gated off - he's only allowed up there at bedtime or during the day under supervision.


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

Sally's Mom said:


> Well, I used a muzzle on my Tiki who tried to kill herself eating the iris rhizomes in my garden. It was a basket muzzle and there was nothing cruel about it. She could still bark (and she did) and she could still pant so she would not overheat. Eventually, she out grew her taste for iris plants... But she got very sick when she ate them..adverse effects in her liver. I raised my kids to not leave socks lying around. At an early age, I told them they would choke and die. An oversimplification for sure, but they never left their socks where the dog could get them. My dogs don not have access to half of the upstairs where they could get into trouble . They sleep in our bedroom, but I have trained my husband well to put his clothes in the laundry basket...


If there are specific times and it is life threatening, I see it. But for socks around the house?


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

An ounce of prevention...living with a muzzle is quite different than certain issues and times. 


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## St. Louis (May 28, 2012)

I will be happy to send our kids and grandkids to you, so that you can re-program them.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

St. Louis said:


> I will be happy to send our kids and grandkids to you, so that you can re-program them.


No thanks! I already have two that I'm trying to program. 




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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

St. Louis said:


> I will be happy to send our kids and grandkids to you, so that you can re-program them.


Same here! And yes, I find lots and lots of socks in the couch, under beds, etc. but we also police the house since I cannot crate Ellie. And we close doors so the kids can continue living like the boys that they are. My husband too. 

It's a lot easier preventing...you asked for thoughts and opinions. :/


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## St. Louis (May 28, 2012)

No, the dog is not living with a muzzle on 24/7. Let me know where the parenting forum is located, so my wife and I can log-on. I am sure the perfect parents will be there with their criticisms.


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

Ouch....I never said I was the perfect parent. But I am realistic with my kids and my puppy. My sweet 10 year old son left a pencil where Ellie could get it. She shredded it, I then explained how the bits can perforate her insides. He felt terrible and might think twice about leaving those types of items out. And, as a puppy owner, I feel it my duty to protect her from herself, just as I would protect my kids from things they didn't understand when they were toddlers. 

That's just me.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

It is spring time. How about a fun spring cleaning weekend with the kids where the theme is 'Find the socks!'


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

A quick reminder to keep your responses polite. Ecollars and muzzles can be hot button issues on the forum, but they can certainly be discussed politely.


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## Lou Castle (Mar 16, 2011)

The first thing I'd recommend, is the as several others, management. With kids around it's difficult to keep sox and the like, off the floor, but getting them involved, as some have suggested, will help. As has been said, keep the laundry pods where the dog can't get to them. 

I don't understand how a muzzle would stop a dog from eating a sock unless it was completely closed off, and that might cause breathing and overheating problems. 

I'd suggest being careful in taking dog training advice from a vet. While they get a great education in medical issues involving dogs, they don't get much in the way of dog training. I don't ask my cardiologist for plumbing advice. 

I don't think you'll find a bigger advocate for the Ecollar on this forum than me. That being said ... You can do aversion training with the Ecollar but I think it's needlessly expensive (for the purchase, unless you're going to use it for other purposes and you've already made this decision). For one thing, you need to be there to correct the dog, at the start of the training, EVERY TIME he starts to go for the sock. If you miss, even once, he'll have learned the lesson, "Sometimes I can do as I please, and that discomfort doesn’t come!" For the rest of his life he may decide to gamble and try to get to a sock that he finds. 

I prefer to treat this the same way as with other undesirable chewing. Catch him in the act, act angry and yell (not so much that he becomes afraid, but enough so that he realizes that you're displeased) take the sock away and replace it with an appropriate chew toy. Praise, and play with him with that toy, if he likes that kind of thing. 

You might take a look at the cotton knotted rope chew toys. They may feel the same in his mouth, you can wash them so that they smell and taste similar to the socks (although he may be attracted to the human smell on them, in which case washing would not be a good idea) and when they come apart the small threads pass easily. 

The dog DOES NOT have to know the desired behaviors to use an Ecollar as some have commented, if you use the correct methods. CLICK HERE for an article on how this is easily done. 

Teaching a "leave it" or a "drop" as has been suggested won't help if you're not there to give the command. And so, while it's a necessary command, it's not going to stop the danger of chewing if you're not around. 



MominGermany said:


> E collars are illegal here in Germany.


I think that you're mistaken on this. Last I heard, and of course things can change, they were not illegal. The SV, the governing body of SchH there, ruled that they could not be used, but that does not have the force of law. It's the policy of a private entity, not the government. But as I said, things might have changed. Can you please supply a link to the law? If you're right, I'm sure that it's available online. I looked but not being familiar with the legal system there, that might have made my searches less effective.


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