# No more gentle leader



## americangolden

Awhile ago I decided to stop using the gentle leader as I felt I was using it as a crutch for walking our golden. I was told when we first bought the gentle leader by a trainer at petsmart that she will have to use the gentle leader her whole life because she was a "puller." I knew I wanted her to walk properly using just a leash & collar but didn't know how to get the results.

I decided awhile ago it's been long enough using it and decided to stop using the gentle leader completely. I did a lot of research & trial and error with what techniques worked/didn't work with using a collar/leash and finally got it all figured out.

At first she was pretty wild with the pulling because neither her or I were used to it but I am very proud to say for the past week of walking her every night I'd say for about 95% of the time she stays at my side loose leash with her head by my legs . A couple times during the walk she will get her nose stuck on a smell or walk a bit ahead of me but I correct it as soon as It happens & we continue the walk.

I am SO HAPPY & we have been taking a lot more walks now  !!! Just a little story for people that use the gentle leader or other harnesses that think they can't walk their dog without them, it can be done!


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## Laurie

Please share your secret!!! I've got 2 guys that pull even with their gentle leaders....we've tried everything. 

Way to go Emma!!!


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## Megora

Good job<:

I'm cringing about trainers/instructors giving advice like that instead of helping people train their dogs. Ugh.


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## americangolden

Laurie,

Honestly the only thing I found that worked was acting like a tree when she wanted to pull. It is kind've hard at first because of how hard they can pull but once they realize that we aren't moving unless they stop they get the hint. It took a few tries but she got the hint pretty quickly.

I also made sure the walk started with her at my side or behind me. From the moment I put the collar on her by the door to go out. To walking out the gate of our yard. Any signs of her pulling ahead of me I gave a small little tug back on the leash to put her back into the right position where she should be and if she didn't want to fall back into place we just stopped & she would look back at me wondering why we wern't moving lol. Now when I say I tugged back on the leash I don't mean a correction, it's just as I am guiding her back into her place if that makes any sence. No leash snap or anything like that.

If I started to walk and she bolted forward again we would stop instantly. I would start to walk again and if she would go ahead of me we'd stop again. It probably looks goofy to anyone watching you but that doesn't matter. The dog will understand soon enough that loose leash at my side means move & pulling ahead means stop no walk.

Don't get disguraged the first few times. Trust me at first it doesn't seem like anything it happening but trust me one of the times it'll suddenly click when your dog gets sick of the stoping and going lol. It is such a great feeling when you are walking with a loose leash and your dog is walking at your side. I have to admit it feels GREAT !


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## americangolden

Megora said:


> Good job<:
> 
> I'm cringing about trainers/instructors giving advice like that instead of helping people train their dogs. Ugh.


 I wasn't too impressed with what they told me back then but I told myself right then and there that she would NOT be wearing the gentle leader her whole life. I wish I would've just skipped the gentle leader to begin with but you live & learn and move on .


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## Laurie

Thanks!!!! We've done the tree thing many times but I guess we'll just have to keep at it. My goal is get rid of the halti/gentle leader once and for all. I hate using them but I really need my arms intact and they're so strong (especially when they see a bunny)!! Honestly, the loose leash walking is the only thing holding us back from going for their CGC so I really need to work at it. 

Funny thing is, when we're out at the ball diamond and I put the leash on them, they're great....it's when we leash them up for walks around our neighbourhood that they're horrible. I'm guessing it's because there are no distractions at the ball diamonds and they know full well what's lying ahead on their normal walks (ie. dogs, blowing leaves, kitties, bunnies, etc.).....all of the fun and exciting things!!


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## americangolden

Another thing I noticed was that my energy was already telling myself failure in the beigining. Sometimes you just need to take a deep breath and clear your mind, head & shoulders up. Take the mindset and energy you have at the ball diamond & bring it to the walk. Be confident in what you are doing, it really does help!


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## Laurie

You're absolutely correct about the energy!!! Okay..tonight it's the deep breath, relaxation, shoulders up and away we go. I just hope the bunnies are at home staying out of the rain!!!!


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## americangolden

Lol @ the bunnies comment! Goodluck though !


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## jimla

Congratulations on achieving loose leash walking! I recently reverted back to front hook harnesses on our two. My shoulders were hurting too much.


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## C's Mom

Congrats! I hope to one day get rid of the halti too. Cocasse has been ok the few times we try walking without one but just last night I tried again and when he saw a dog he dragged me with him to get to the dog. Will keep trying.


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## Laurie

Well our walk last night wasn't a total flop!!! We started out with the halti/gentle leader which was good because within 10 minutes of our walk....Mr. Cottontail made an appearance!!!!! After I finally calmed Austin down, I did remove the leash from his GL and put it on his regular collar......he actually walked really well the rest of the way home...just a couple of corrections and it was all good. 

We didn't take the halti off of Lincoln, who is the big puller!!! We are going to practice, practice, practice with him this weekend........


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## RedDogs

A few things...

-With ANY piece of equipment, forward motion should stop if the leash clip is NOT hanging straight down. Slight tension is still tension. If your dog is pulling and you are walking, he will think that is how humans move. Dogs learn to pull on front clip harnesses and head halters when the humans still walk with a pulling dog. 
- If your dog is a super strong puller and you are a smaller person or have health issues... just keep using the equipment other than controlled circumstances. It is NOT worth it for you to get hurt. And in the case of older pet owners...a fall could lead to injuries that lead to a hospital visit... and greatly reduced quality of life. There is nothing wrong with continuing to use head halters/front clips.... BE SAFE!!

- Get some walks with low (no) pulls with the equipment. Next walk, take it off during the quietest part. Frequently reinforce your dog (...food is typically the best reinforcer....) often. Especially if he thinks about pulling but does not. 
- Gradually extend the time you have the head halter off. If you are a healthy person and able to hold on, you don't have to go as gradually... but the key is to be getting low/no pulls.... not "less pulls than before."

- Add in distractions in a controlled manner at home. Up to a ridiculous level!

- If your dog is really wild... a training class that focuses specifically on self control will be a great option. It's WAY easier to have a dog that notices things in the environment and then will leave it, walk on, or return to you ---wtihout--- prompting from you. 

Walking is my favorite thing to teach.


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## Laurie

RedDogs said:


> A few things...
> 
> -With ANY piece of equipment, forward motion should stop if the leash clip is NOT hanging straight down. Slight tension is still tension. If your dog is pulling and you are walking, he will think that is how humans move. Dogs learn to pull on front clip harnesses and head halters when the humans still walk with a pulling dog.
> - If your dog is a super strong puller and you are a smaller person or have health issues... just keep using the equipment other than controlled circumstances. It is NOT worth it for you to get hurt. And in the case of older pet owners...a fall could lead to injuries that lead to a hospital visit... and greatly reduced quality of life. There is nothing wrong with continuing to use head halters/front clips.... BE SAFE!!
> 
> - Get some walks with low (no) pulls with the equipment. Next walk, take it off during the quietest part. Frequently reinforce your dog (...food is typically the best reinforcer....) often. Especially if he thinks about pulling but does not.
> - Gradually extend the time you have the head halter off. If you are a healthy person and able to hold on, you don't have to go as gradually... but the key is to be getting low/no pulls.... not "less pulls than before."
> 
> - Add in distractions in a controlled manner at home. Up to a ridiculous level!
> 
> - If your dog is really wild... a training class that focuses specifically on self control will be a great option. It's WAY easier to have a dog that notices things in the environment and then will leave it, walk on, or return to you ---wtihout--- prompting from you.
> 
> Walking is my favorite thing to teach.


Thank you for this!!! The only thing that really causes us big time distractions/problems are the rabbits running around the neighbourhood....they're fine with people, other dogs and cats. 

I use treats as a motivator for Lincoln and when I do, he has the cutest little prance right at my side....he's good for a few steps and then it's back to pulling. He does get better near the end of our walk. :doh: To be fair to Lincoln, hubby typically walks with him together with our 10 year old and he's actually worse than the young ones. This weekend, it's all going to be about Lincoln and Austin and perfecting their walk!!!


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## RedDogs

Walk one at a time for training. Pull out the food after they turn to you, not to make them leave the rabbits. Go to the edge of the 'rabbit alert' area. Wait for attention or good walking. Feed a treat. And when you get attention again, feed a treat. And repeat. When you have great attention, go a bit closer. And closer. And closer. Use the best food you can.

With most dogs, it really doesn't take as long as it sounds!


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## americangolden

RedDogs said:


> With most dogs, it really doesn't take as long as it sounds!


Agreed! Sometimes toys work well too, depends what your dog likes the most. With Emma she is very food motivated but has a few toys like her rope, bones & balls that she will get her attention. Find out what works best for your dog!


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## iansgran

I used the gentle leader most of my Subiaco's life--he was 11 when he died. He did not really need it after he was 3 but it was my insurance because I have bad knees and am older. Didn't use it for everything, just when there was a chance he might get the pulling urge. I will be doing the same for Jaro. Right now I am using the gentle leader or easy walk with him--and he does very well but I have to be sure he doesn't pull me down which even at 5 months he could easily do. Thanks Reddogs for the supportive answer.


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## golden_daisy

We use the Easy Walk Harness with Daisy (4 mos old) and it's great! She walks loose leash (most of the time -- she's still just a pup!) by our sides with it and I feel that we have more control of her with it on. Also, the kids (ages 12,9,6) are able to easily handle her with it on, even if she does pull sometimes. We'll likely continue to use it for quite some time yet, and maybe switch as she gets older and better trained. We'll see....we may just use it always since she's so good on it.


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## Gator

I used the Gentle Leader on Holly twice before - the first time we gave up after one day, the second time for about two months until it got a bit too small for her. I also tried an Easy Walk harness but it really didn't help prevent her pulling during our daily 3-mile hikes and other shorter walks.

A trainer-friend suggested that I give the Gentle Leader another try so I picked one up last Saturday right before a group dog walking session in one of our community parks - the results were amazing that day (and since) - no more uncontrollable lunging/pulling - it's like walking Holly with power steering and power brakes! We were also able to walk with another handler and a black lab - both dogs in a "heel" - for the first time.

I would like to eventually get Holly to walk under control without a special "tool" but considering the joint pain that I suffer and how much better things are now that we use the Gentle Leader again, I'll continue to use it for as long as it takes. Oh, by the way, hot dog treats given at random helps a lot too.


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## Marjorie

I searched "Gentle Leader" for advice, and found it. I bought it, watched the instructions, used it, and it worked on Bess. I had a submissive dog walking behind or next to me. My cat LOVED it! LOL But it was all such a sad affair. There was no camaraderie, no friendship, no joy. I stopped using it and have just been jerking her neck with a slip-lead. (We don't need to go far on lead --just to the forest where she can run, but I want to be able to take her other places.) But I hate the correcting, too, and it wasn't working. I did work with her after the walk, with treats, when we were both tired and it was horribly hot, but she still pulled. I'm going to try your tree method. Thanks, american golden!


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## mylissyk

I would love to hear what methods you used to work with her and get her to walk on loose leash. Well done both of you.


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## Burd

americangolden said:


> Laurie,
> 
> Honestly the only thing I found that worked was acting like a tree when she wanted to pull. It is kind've hard at first because of how hard they can pull but once they realize that we aren't moving unless they stop they get the hint. It took a few tries but she got the hint pretty quickly.
> 
> I also made sure the walk started with her at my side or behind me. From the moment I put the collar on her by the door to go out. To walking out the gate of our yard. Any signs of her pulling ahead of me I gave a small little tug back on the leash to put her back into the right position where she should be and if she didn't want to fall back into place we just stopped & she would look back at me wondering why we wern't moving lol. Now when I say I tugged back on the leash I don't mean a correction, it's just as I am guiding her back into her place if that makes any sence. No leash snap or anything like that.
> 
> If I started to walk and she bolted forward again we would stop instantly. I would start to walk again and if she would go ahead of me we'd stop again. It probably looks goofy to anyone watching you but that doesn't matter. The dog will understand soon enough that loose leash at my side means move & pulling ahead means stop no walk.
> 
> Don't get disguraged the first few times. Trust me at first it doesn't seem like anything it happening but trust me one of the times it'll suddenly click when your dog gets sick of the stoping and going lol. It is such a great feeling when you are walking with a loose leash and your dog is walking at your side. I have to admit it feels GREAT !


AWESOME!!! I'll try this with Dixie!


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## Marjorie

*Progress & Frustration --acting like a tree & checking-In*

I am fortunate enough not to have health issues to consider while walking Bess, although I did have to see a doctor after one good unexpected yank she gave my arm (I'd also been carrying buckets of rocks out of the garden, so it wasn't just her.) When I first started the Tree Act, she did look up at me, just as *americangolden *said.This was fantastic because it was the *very first time she had looked at me* while walking. I've read here how you all get your dogs to "_*check-in" by looking at your faces*_, but I couldn't get Bess to do it. I had treats with me and rewarded her, but she hasn't really done it much since. Walking out the door and to the woods is always more or less a failure. She tries... starts out great, but gets distracted fast by all the smells and sounds. Food and toys don't interest her. On the way home, exhausted, she's wonderful. But she doesn't look at my face. I'm bewildered. I've had many dogs --all kinds --and they always looked at my face for guidance. I didn't try to make them do it --they just did. But Bess just doesn't. Maybe because it's not yet 3 months since she came here....?


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## Angelina

> Honestly the only thing I found that worked was acting like a tree when she wanted to pull. It is kind've hard at first because of how hard they can pull but once they realize that we aren't moving unless they stop they get the hint. It took a few tries but she got the hint pretty quickly.
> 
> I also made sure the walk started with her at my side or behind me. From the moment I put the collar on her by the door to go out. To walking out the gate of our yard. Any signs of her pulling ahead of me I gave a small little tug back on the leash to put her back into the right position where she should be and if she didn't want to fall back into place we just stopped & she would look back at me wondering why we wern't moving lol. Now when I say I tugged back on the leash I don't mean a correction, it's just as I am guiding her back into her place if that makes any sence. No leash snap or anything like that.
> If I started to walk and she bolted forward again we would stop instantly. I would start to walk again and if she would go ahead of me we'd stop again. It probably looks goofy to anyone watching you but that doesn't matter. The dog will understand soon enough that loose leash at my side means move & pulling ahead means stop no walk.
> 
> Don't get disguraged the first few times. Trust me at first it doesn't seem like anything it happening but trust me one of the times it'll suddenly click when your dog gets sick of the stoping and going lol. It is such a great feeling when you are walking with a loose leash and your dog is walking at your side. I have to admit it feels GREAT !


__________________

This is so true and may I add you can also change direction on them with warning of course "Nell, with me..." and when you stop if they automatically come back to your side you can treat them too. And it is true one day it just clicks...usally the day after you are convinced this will never work!


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## Minnesota

I too, have decided to use a martingale collar instead of the gentle leader as it lost it's effectiveness after a few months, I started to use the umblical leash method and standing like a tree when Minnesota pulled,as he too is very strong ...this was working(I did this for 2 weeks) walking him 2-3 times a day I did not expect heeling by my side yet. I just started to have him heel by my side holding leash in hand and using treats/praise, this too is going well, he does try to pull at smells still ,but if he is behind me I keep walking ahead and he does not resist as much as he used to.I need to practise patience with Minnesota, our trainer says he is not stubborn, he just needs time to process what is asked of him...ugh...patience....these posts are encouraging knowing one day he will walk nicely without pulling.
This pulling is the only thing we have struggled with since rescuing him 8 months ago.


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## Burd

I tried what you mentioned earlier in this thread yesterday and this afternoon. And guess what?!!! It's already working! When me and my sister walked Sherlock and Dixie down to the school to pick up our nephew, she did PERFECT! Absolutely perfect! She pulled a couple of times wanting to get back home in a hurry on the way back but other than that she was fabulous. LOL! And I had just finished telling my mom it doesn't happen overnight! ;D Thank you so much!


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky

Excellent Job!!! I agree with the "tree" suggestion. This works too if you've got a dog that likes to suddenly stop to sniff something and I've already walked ahead. I used to stop and turn around and watch her sniff -- big mistake! Now, I just stop and stay facing the direction we were going. I might steal a look to make sure she isn't into something bad, but I try to be stealthy. It's weird, because she quickly gets back on board walking forward instead of hanging out longer to sniff! Our walks are gradually getting so much more enjoyable without all the stops to sniff every gosh darn smell! hahaha I 100% agree too on how amazing it is when I lift my head up, set back my shoulders and walk with confidence towards my destination. I think all these situations are just great examples of pack leadership, don't you?!






americangolden said:


> Laurie,
> 
> Honestly the only thing I found that worked was acting like a tree when she wanted to pull. It is kind've hard at first because of how hard they can pull but once they realize that we aren't moving unless they stop they get the hint. It took a few tries but she got the hint pretty quickly.
> 
> I also made sure the walk started with her at my side or behind me. From the moment I put the collar on her by the door to go out. To walking out the gate of our yard. Any signs of her pulling ahead of me I gave a small little tug back on the leash to put her back into the right position where she should be and if she didn't want to fall back into place we just stopped & she would look back at me wondering why we wern't moving lol. Now when I say I tugged back on the leash I don't mean a correction, it's just as I am guiding her back into her place if that makes any sence. No leash snap or anything like that.
> 
> If I started to walk and she bolted forward again we would stop instantly. I would start to walk again and if she would go ahead of me we'd stop again. It probably looks goofy to anyone watching you but that doesn't matter. The dog will understand soon enough that loose leash at my side means move & pulling ahead means stop no walk.
> 
> Don't get disguraged the first few times. Trust me at first it doesn't seem like anything it happening but trust me one of the times it'll suddenly click when your dog gets sick of the stoping and going lol. It is such a great feeling when you are walking with a loose leash and your dog is walking at your side. I have to admit it feels GREAT !


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## Summer's Mom

Be-a-tree is a great way of making sure dogs are not pulling, but it may not be enough to teach some dogs quickly what you want.. We used this in combination with a food reward method (yes, its not that bad!) to get a perfectly well behaved girl  

I'm on a phone and can't lost the video link, but you can see her walking on a short clip at the thread Hip Dysplasia Gait in the video section..

How we got there - i use a clicker.. My dog has never been scolded, nor given any corrections.. Start out with a pocketful of secret yummy food.. Its best if the dog doesn't know u have it, and if its really special - cubed boiled chicken or similar 

Drop a piece of food right beside your foot.. As the dog goes to eat it, keep walking.. As he catches up to your side, click or say'yes!' and drop a piece next to your shoe, keep walking, repeat.. After a whole walk like this (maybe 10 mins) your dog will start hesitating everytime he catches up to beside u, this is exactly what we want! 

When he is reliably hesitating next to you and waiting for the yes and food, you can take a step before rewarding, then extend to 2 steps, then 3 etc. If your dog ever starts rushing ahead or seeming to forget the drill, go back to rewarding more often  

Summer can walk perfectly well for a whole walk, but i still surprise her with good food every few walks, and reward for a variable no. of steps (up to 10) throughout those training walks.. 

Hope this works for someone at least!  Also, its best if the dog doesn't see the food on you and it appears out of no where


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## Marjorie

Summer's Mom, that sounds like a great technique! Forgive someone new to this a dumb question, but exactly how do you manage the treats? I've been keeping them in an open zip-lock bag in the right-hand pocket of my shorts, but unless I have one already in hand, I still have to fumble a bit for it. The fumbling really takes away from the effect, I think. (I bought a bag of Zuke's minis --peanut butter, but she's not nuts about them, so I've been using bits of left-over pot roast.) I've been wondering if I should hang a shallow pouch around my neck...?
Anybody?


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## Summer's Mom

Amazon.com: treat pouch: Pet Supplies

You can look into one of these, we have the Premier one  if you do get one though, try to wear it behind your hip (away from the dog) and to not ALWAYS use it.. We don't want the dog to get smart and know that we only have food when they see the pouch.. You can also wear it around the house randomly, so they know it doesn't only appear when its training time  Sometimes I still try to mix it up and if the pants/shorts i'm wearing has a good pocket, I just go with the pocket.. 

Pot roast sounds like a wonderful treat.... Summer loves cheese, and boiled chicken..


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## Marjorie

Thank you, Summer's Mom! I had no idea they made such a thing! Thought I'd have to improvise. Clearly, I am not the first frustrated fumbler. Your link was to your signed-in page, therefore blocked to me. Here's one:







 Amazon --Treat Pouches The Premier has mixed reviews --some people say it breaks right away, so I'm not sure which to get. 

This morning I made sure she was outside before I prepared her treats --hoping for secrecy --but she smelled it right away. Maybe chicken and cheese won't be so aromatic! 

Looks like my link won't work either. Odd.


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