# Growling-or grumbling?



## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Very cute photo!

I'd suggest reading up on "Nothing In Life Is Free." Many people here recommended this program for dogs with resource guarding behaviors. I would also suggest hand feeding Stanley each meal...and feeding he and Maui separately. A good training class that uses positive reinforcement would probably help Stanley make leaps and bounds. These classes can really help to develop a bond between you, too.


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## furrygodmother (Jun 12, 2008)

Actually we do hand feed with a "sit" and "take' command and Maui is fed in a seperate room. Our elder dog is fed with Stanley because he could really care less about Stanley's bowl. We follow the "nothing in life" principle fairly well. 

I may not have been horribly concise in my first post.
I'm wondering if his reaction is more fear-based or just kvetching. 

Maui (who is half GR) is a "smil-er" and also makes a happy growly sound when she meets someone new that some people confuse with a real growl. (Most of my many previous dogs were labs who don't seem to TALK this much )

I'm wondering if psychologically I am reacting to Stanley correctly with "talking him down" from that reaction or if a true "correction"is a better approach for a youg dog that was undisciplined and or OVER-disciplined for most of his young life.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Punishment can create frustration and aggression.

I work with a lot of reactive dogs. I really really really like dogs that growl. Dogs that do not growl and just go directly to biting (as the growling had previously been punished...) are really scary. 

Always immediately be sure you and others are safe. Then note the situation and come up with training plans to address it. If it's resource guarding: approach when he has food/chews/stuff, drop a SUPER YUMMY treat and leave the area. Repeat a lot of times over several weeks.

With the car...consider that touching may be painful (due to structure, a recent injury/soreness from playing, tick diseases or something else...), or you may have startled him. Do lots of handling activities. Pat on the shoulder, high value treat. Pat on the back, high value treat. NEVER touching where he is uncomfortable, and going super slowly.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

I view it as a growl but I don't think a growl is out of the norm for a dog in a new environment. Its a gut reaction. I think it takes time to get that gut reaction to change. I think positive training will change that "gut reaction" to something trustworthy.

Good Luck. Lucky is a growler in some situations....but I know him enough to trust him. He won't bite. I dont think your new pup has earned the trust yet.


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## furrygodmother (Jun 12, 2008)

*sUPER YUMMY TREATS*

I like that idea. I've been working on the "give" and then giving the toy right back to him and he is getting better.. he never offers to bite or really "snarl" it's just more of a "grumbling"... maybe he's just trying to let me know he's atill nervous. 
Such a big dork, though...we love him!


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## Griffyn'sMom (Mar 22, 2007)

Well he's certainly letting you know what he doesn't like. It's a shame he's been mistreated - it will probably be a while before he's totally comfortable in his new home. 

I'm sure changing your tactics a bit and more OB training will help him immensely. Best wishes, he's a beautiful boy.

(If he's a talker, you will hear a different type of growl/grumble when he is overjoyed. My Jake was an extreme talker and he would "complain" when he was told to do something he didn't want to - but he would do it. Never once did he bare his teeth though.)


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Growling can be the equivalent of a person telling you "I'm not comfortable with this situation." Punishing, or yelling at, them of course would not be the right way to respond. Dogs only have growling as a way to communicate they are nervous, uncomfortable, or aggressive, I consider it communication and try to understand what they are communicating.

Positive methods of changing your handling help a lot. For instance, instead of pushing him over in the car, go around to the other door and call him to you to make room for the other dog, instead of grabbing his collar to pull him away from the dishwasher, call him to you with a treat or toy.

Just some ideas, I know sometimes it's hard to think of an alternative way to handle them in the moment.

Thanks for adopting him, he is a beauty!


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

I also wouldn't give the dog mixed messages--sounds like you comforted him in the car, and then had a talk with him (how long of a talk?) at the dishwasher. That can be very confusing to a dog. You reprimanded him--then you had second thoughts because of the way he acted (he cowered) so you comforted him. Your new pup needs to know that you're the leader, and that you'll be in charge, take care of him and any situation, and be fair. He hasn't had a fair leader (owner) from what you've said--you may think you're playing fair with him by rationalizing with him, but he needs to know that all is well--if you feel you're being too firm, don't second guess yourself (IMHO) just make a note for the next time that you'll lighten up at the next opportunity--otherwise, to comfort him will only have him guessing as to what is the right response to give.

Several have mentioned using obedience more and I agree--when the dishwasher door comes out, put him in a down/stay--and reinforce with treats and praise. Give him opportunities to do good. Once the dishes are loaded and the door is closed, give him the release command and have a great big party--loads of praise and more treats! Sounds like your needs direction on just what is good behavior--just what is expected--and I think once you have that solved, you'll see the cowering go away and you'll see a more confident dog who recognizes his place in your home, and sees you as his 
golden equally confident owner. (IMHO)


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Lots of great ideas in this thread and I don't have much to add besides that it took Ranger a long time to settle into my house. On the surface, it looked like he adapted right away. He figured out the routine, learned the "rules" (no going into bathroom and no going in kitchen when I'm in it or charging up the stairs ahead of me) within a few days but still was anxious. When it came to correcting him, I made sure first he knew what he was doing wrong and spent the first few weeks redirecting him when he did something I didn't want him to do. After that, I corrected him. I didn't want to correct him when he didn't know what he was doing was wrong.

He did growl at me once when I forgot about my re-directing and reacted to the situation like I would have if he'd been a dog I'd had since a pup. He got into the garbage I had left open (my bad) and I came up behind him and touched him as I said "hey!". He spun around and growled at me for a second before it seemed to click that I wasn't who he had been expecting (his former owner used to beat him). I redirected him to a bone, closed the garbage and that was it. That was the only time he growled at me and that seemed more like an instinctive reaction to something he'd previously experienced. Like a poster above said, better they growl than bite.

It's been a year now and Ranger's just letting his personality show more. He's getting more "golden" and less aloof. More goofy at times and he's starting to show me what he wants more. It takes time before rescues get totally comfortable even if it seems they fit in so well it's like they've been a part of the family for years.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Don't punish this behavior, and even if it's nothing serious, you'll do right by the dog if you treat it as potentially serious and work positively on making him feel safer and less nervous around resources.

Treat it like it's a warning of escalating behavior. If you're right, you'll help prevent it from getting worse, and if you're wrong, you won't hurt him by teaching him how to give up toys and relax around his food.


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## furrygodmother (Jun 12, 2008)

Great advice from all! Thank you. This morning he very proudly brought me my socks... and his new sister's chew bone, and a small stuffed panda that is most decidedly NOT a dog toy.
So very proud of himself, I had to laugh.


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## furrygodmother (Jun 12, 2008)

Ranger said:


> it took Ranger a long time to settle into my house. On the surface, it looked like he adapted right away. He figured out the routine, learned the "rules" (no going into bathroom and no going in kitchen when I'm in it or charging up the stairs ahead of me) within a few days but still was anxious.
> He did growl at me once when I forgot about my re-directing and reacted to the situation like I would have if he'd been a dog I'd had since a pup. He got into the garbage I had left open (my bad) and I came up behind him and touched him as I said "hey!". He spun around and growled at me for a second before it seemed to click that I wasn't who he had been expecting (his former owner used to beat him).
> .
> (snip)
> ...



This is exactly waht we've been experiencing... and we ARE seeing daily improvement. It's almost like at first, he is on his best behavior and then the anxiety sets in and you have to work through THAT to get to the real dog underneath it all... I'm confident we'll be able to say the same about Stanley soon enough. Here he is at Easter with his new family.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Furrygodmother*

Furrygodmother

Stanley and Maui make a great pair. Did you adopt Stanley?

Beautiful boy!!

My first impression when you said growling or grumbling is it might be Stanley's way of talking/communicating with you. It does take time for a rescued dog to settle in and feel secure in their new home, especially if he was mistreated before.

Our Samoyed, Snobear, used to growl/grumble, and he did this his entire life-we got him as a puppy-it was Snobear's way of "talking."


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## furrygodmother (Jun 12, 2008)

Yeah we adopted him! Oh and cool thing is today I got in contact with his original breeder and found out a bit about his mom and dad's personalities (both live with the breeder) which helps me get a handle on him a bit more.

In that picture Maui is the far left dog.. she 's from a shelter but is half Border half Golden and is almost 2years old ( she is also brilliant  ) 
Stanley is our adoptee from Golden Bond Rescue in Oregon, and we've had him about 7 weeks. Our sweet Golden girl Briana died suddenly from Lymphoma in January and we felt (OK.. I felt) we could help another Golden find a fur ever home. Big yard, two big girls...lots of love.
Buddy is the elderly gentleman on the right... We found him running down a busy street 10 years ago.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Careful with the socks! I can't tell you how many threads on this forum start with something like "Oh my god! My dog brings us our socks sometimes and it was hilarious, but tonight he swallowed one and we spent $4000 at the vet!"


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## furrygodmother (Jun 12, 2008)

Argh! YOu are right! I forgot about that. This morning it was teddy bears... one after another from somewhere in the kids bedrooms. I swear he does that knowing he'll get to exchange them for a treat.:doh:


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

"Smiling" is a very submissive gesture. People who haven't been around a dog who does it can easily mistake it for snarling. It's the dog's way of trying to appease you. I don't think tough methods are needed at this point. Just try to keep an even temper with him and give him more time to settle in before you jump on training and NILIF. I have had a smiler in the past and have fostered a few, absolutely none of them were the least big aggressive and I am wondering if what you are hearing is a deep whine of fear instead of a growl. I have NEVER met a smiler who had any aggression in them.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Reply*

Buddy, Stanley and Maui are ALL BEAUTIFUL!

Yes, be careful with the socks and I still think his growling/grumbling might be his way of talking/communicating with you like our Snobear, (Samoyed), did.

When my rescued female Golden Ret. Smooch smiles, my hubby Ken always says she has a bad smile-her smile looks like a snarl/growl, she smiles SO MUCH!


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## furrygodmother (Jun 12, 2008)

*smiling dogs*

Yeah.. Maui is a BIG smiler. Her trainer just thinks it's adorable and Maui's file at the vet's office says "this dog SMILES" in big bold letters...

Here's another Stanley pose


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## furrygodmother (Jun 12, 2008)

Oops.. never attached the image.


Stanley


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## furrygodmother (Jun 12, 2008)

Great.. now it shows up TWICE!!


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## furrygodmother (Jun 12, 2008)

*Stanley update*

So proud of my boy! He's has been improving so much on his trust. No "grumbliing" at all this week and he even brought me a stuffed animal and dropped it into my hand when I told him to drop! (THIS is HUGE for him!) I made a major fuss over him and he was so darned proud of himself, it cracked me up! tail wagging... happy tongue hanging out!~ Little by little he is beginning to trust us!:banana:, and boy was he thrilled when I gave him a Girl Scout cookie case (The big cardboard boxes they are shipped in ) to destroy! ( He LOVES to deconstruct boxes!)


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Stanley*

Stanley is just beautiful and it just takes awhile for them to adjust and trust!

So glad he is doing much better!!


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