# Deposit before pups are conceived/born?



## MissCammie (Dec 4, 2014)

Hello - I'm in the (very long) process of trying to connect with a good breeder with a dam we are comfortable with. I've found one we really like, but the main issue is that the breeder requires a non-refundable $500 deposit to secure a spot on the wait list (mom isn't even in heat yet). I'm wondering if others have found this to be a common practice?

It's not that we're not willing to commit, but what happens if we're #4 on the list for a female and only 3 are born? Or if she doesn't get pregnant at all? Then we're stuck waiting for a future litter from another mom who we might not be as excited about. And we'd be sacrificing our ability to move on to another breeder if the litter we'd originally planned on didn't work out.

A few other breeders I've spoken with specifically will NOT accept deposits until pups are born and they're looking to match families to dogs, and that seems a much better process to me. Just hoping others can weigh in with their experience, particularly other breeders who can share their rationale. Thanks!


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## Harleysmum (Aug 19, 2014)

Have you established to your satisfaction that this is a reputable breeder who has done all clearances on the parents of this litter?


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## MissCammie (Dec 4, 2014)

Yes, I have ... all appear to have all their clearances and health checks.

This particular breeder is definitely more on the "business" end of the spectrum as opposed to the occasional hobby breeder, as evidenced by the collection of up-front deposit and cost of pups, which are $400-$500 more expensive than other breeders I've spoken with.

We don't necessarily mind the higher price, or paying a deposit, but the fact that it's non-refundable gives me pause.


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## ckshin05 (May 6, 2012)

You can bring it up to their attention. It doesn't hurt to ask breeder's questions. I came in with a tone of questions when I picked up Darla.


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## Pirate Molly (Mar 20, 2015)

We were are with a breeder who requires deposit when pregnancy is confirmed and she would have transferred our deposit to another litter in the future if this one hadn't worked. The deposit does not bind you to another litter with them you can decline however 500 is a lot to lose. Like others say check clearances and make sure you are comfortable.
A couple of reasons they do this is because so that all prospective puppies have homes and they are secured. Mostly too because the deposit goes for dam and pup care immediately.
If you're not happy with your list position I would ask the breeder wether her dams produce more of one sex than the other , or option for the other sex if available . Best of luck to you this process is a bit daunting.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Personally, I don't know any breeders who require a non-refundable deposit before puppies are even conceived. Too many variables for me to feel comfortable with that.

Most of the breeders I know have puppies on the ground before they actually will accept a deposit.

Do both parents of the litter have hips and elbows certified after 2 years of age, hearts cleared by a cardiologist and eye reports within the last 12 months or so? Do these clearances run generations deep?

Given that you said they are more expensive than other litters you have been looking at, I would assume that both parents are AKC champions or have higher level hunt or field titles.

All this said, there is no right or wrong as to how a breeder wants to handle deposits or the price they want to charge. It's up to you as to whether or not you are comfortable with it.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Agree with Tahnee GR, I never take deposits until the pups are born......


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

My first breeder took a $100 deposit upon confirmation of the pregnancy by ultrasound, but she did not deposit the checks until the puppies were a week old. She did not tell me she was doing that, but I had noticed that it took a very long time for the check to clear and that was the timing of the cleared check.


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## GoldInMyHeart (Jun 4, 2014)

Unfortunately, I am quite familiar with this practice. I gave a deposit to a breeder last spring before the puppies were born, and I would not recommend it. We lost our deposit as the breeder refused to give it back to us.  We wanted a male FROM THIS SPECIFIC BREEDING and gave our deposit believing we were first in line for our choice from all the male pups. As time went on, the breeder then told us "you will have first pick of the males after I choose the show puppies" which is not what we agreed to. Like you, I was thinking "what if there are no male pups or what if there is only one male and the breeder decides to keep that one pup". Well, the litter was born and the breeder told me one week after the birth that all the pups were females and that we would be "moved to the next litter". Well, I didn't want to be moved to the next litter because the parents did not have what I wanted and the timing was way off for us. We got into a nasty dispute and still the breeder would not return our deposit. Many flat out lies and kooky behavior all the way around. Whenever someone asks for a breeder recommendation in Wisconsin, I don't hesitate to name this breeder as one to stay away from.

Although I am still not happy about being ripped off -- no other way to say it -- it did all work out because we found the breeder of our dreams (thank you Goldenjackpuppy!), Stephanie Glass at Buttercup Goldens, and got our precious boy from her. I love her, her family and she cares for us also. I found the other breeder to be SCARY and Steph is the exact opposite of that -- she is wonderful and amazing, and we will have a happy relationship for a long while to come. That is what you want with your breeder. If your gut is telling you something is not quite right, then I would listen to it.

I would give Steph a deposit if she ever asked for one, but I can't picture myself giving one to anyone else.


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## Loukia (Sep 20, 2014)

Even if the breeder checks out to be a reputable breeder with all of the clearances, I would be worried about giving a nonrefundable deposit for the reasons that GoldInMyHeart mentions. There are too many unknowns and since it isn't refundable, you're stuck with how ever the breeder wants to handle it. You may not be satisfied with the next breeding if the mom you're hoping for doesn't get pregnant. It's also important to know why this breeder is charging more for these pups. Like Linda mentions... champions, etc. is one thing and will warrant a higher price, but charging for a certain color is a whole different story.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

I would not work with a breeder who deals this way! Period, it says something about how they will treat you going forward.

I like breeders who require a deposit, not a problem. But, not refundable...be serious! What is the pup cannot get pregnant? What if it only has one pup? What if the pups are sick or get sick after you get home? etc, etc.

Run....run away fast....or you could call them and counter offer....asking for money back if any of the above + more should happen! You are the customer, and there are 1,000's of good breeders....unless these breeding dog are all FC or Grand Champions...this is ridiculous!


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I take deposits before I breed, but I cannot imagine making them non-refundable. I do tell people that once puppies are 2 weeks old, half of it will go to GRFoundation if they decide otherwise, but I still return half of it.. but I would never want a deposit to force someone into a puppy they don't like of course. It's just over the course of decades I've realized that some people will enjoy the photos and relationship and then find several weeks into it that they'd rather move to a different litter because of some reason or another, and after a couple of litters down the line I came to realize those people are not risking anything at all and I am risking having a puppy unspoken for at the time they need to go to their new homes....and making it partially nonrefundable to a good cause (GRF) and not into my pocket seems fair to me. But a $500 deposit is a big deposit, and it being non-refundable at that, seems to be a pretty big risk for you as buyer. I assume you are a great home, and one the breeder should be thrilled to have on their list, so if they can't give you THIS breeding, at THIS time, they should be willing to give you the deposit back week one after whelp. I can't imagine funding breeding expenses on deposits, either, because if you can't afford to cover it all yourself, you should not be doing the breeding. IMO.


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## GoldInMyHeart (Jun 4, 2014)

> I am risking having a puppy unspoken for at the time they need to go to their new homes....


This is a VERY good point. And, quite honestly, when the breeder for which I am speaking had "non-refundable" written on her form, I interpreted it to mean if WE backed out it would be non-refundable. If there had been a puppy for us, one that we agreed upon and went along for seven weeks with the understanding that we would take him and then all of a sudden decided not to take him, then yes, I can totally see her keeping the deposit and would have believed that to be fair.

Even after our nasty dispute, lies and total kookiness, including an intervention with an outside source, the breeder kept saying "just let me know when you are ready for a pup".......after all of that she was still willing to sell us a pup but would not return our deposit!!! It is absolutely mind blowing, right?


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## Susan6953 (Jun 9, 2008)

I paid a deposit at about the time of conception but if there wasn't a puppy of the sex I wanted I could get the deposit refunded.


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## Trin57 (Jul 11, 2015)

I think I am facing the same thing, but also no contract. Is that normal? I'm giving 1,000 deposit (non-refundable) and I'm not sure where I stand in line??


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Trin57, hello from another Marylander (at least for now). Where are you looking to get your pup from, also do you have the pedigree links for the sire/dam?


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## Trin57 (Jul 11, 2015)

*Hi*

I'm thinking Eldorado Goldens in VA. This is the combines pedigree for the litter I believe I'll be getting my pup from (need to confirm this) Sorry I thought the below info would be in links.:doh:
brooks x misty mae	
Am GCH/U-CH Eldorado's Bootscoot'N Boogie CHIC#90775	
Am CH/U-GRCH/Int CH Eldorado's Adirondack Timberline CGC CHIC#78657	
CH Lycinan's Sweet William CDX TD WC VCX OS
Eldorado's For Your Eyes Only
Eldorado's Hawaiian Dancer	
Ch. Eldorado's Don't Cha Just Luv Me Multi BVISS/Multi BVIS
CH Eldorado's Tropical Paradise Multi SpecialtyBOSS Winner
Eldorado's 4 X's Olympic Gold	
Eldorado's Ima Alot Too Hott RN	
AM CH Lycinan's Big Bang CDX JH WC VC OS
Ch Eldorado's Sizzl'n Hott Multi BVSS
U-CH Eldorado's Virginia is for Luv'rz	
Am CH/U-GRCH/Int CH Eldorado's Adirondack Timberline CGC CHIC#78657
Eldorado's Hawaiian Dancer


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## Trin57 (Jul 11, 2015)

brooks x misty mae	
Am GCH/U-CH Eldorado's Bootscoot'N Boogie CHIC#90775	
Eldorado's 4 X's Olympic Gold

or Brooks & 
Am GCH/U-CH Eldorado's Bootscoot'N Boogie CHIC#90775
Eldorado's Bound 4 Glory

Sorry you didn't need the whole family tree. I'm so new to this!!


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Chris is a member on here. I saw her showing some of her dogs at the PVGRC specialty this April. For your own peace of mind & the substantial amount for the non-refundable deposit, I would want an agreement in writing what "non-refundable" means, nothing against Chris, just have seen too many posters come on this forum upset that their interpretation & their breeder's interpretation of the terms weren't the same & unfortunately weren't written down. Also, I totally get that "where do I stand" on the list--just ask her. Good luck!


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## lloyddobler (Nov 30, 2014)

I had to put a $400 deposit but it would have been refundable if enough puppies were not born. I think the breeder said she only took three or four deposits before the pups were conceived


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## Trin57 (Jul 11, 2015)

I just emailed her with some questions. Honestly, I was overwhelmed with her beautiful Goldens (I lost my girl @ 14years a year ago) so I just wasn't thinking and just emailed her all the questions I should have asked. Thanks for your advice. The first golden I bought was from a woman who did it as a hobby and she happened to use one Of Chris dogs. A beautiful golden!! Thanks so much!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

MissCammie said:


> Hello - I'm in the (very long) process of trying to connect with a good breeder with a dam we are comfortable with. I've found one we really like, but the main issue is that the breeder requires a non-refundable $500 deposit to secure a spot on the wait list (mom isn't even in heat yet). I'm wondering if others have found this to be a common practice?


I just cant imagine taking deposits that early. I wouldnt take them until week 4 personally, bc there are so many good buyers that want pups in my area, and I wouldnt want the responsibilty of cashing a check if I didnt end up having a puppy for you.


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## gretzky (Dec 1, 2012)

I agree with others on this thread - have something in writing. With verbal agreements, it's very easy to get carried away in the moment and not have a clear understanding.


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## Trin57 (Jul 11, 2015)

I know mine is having 3 litters so I should be able to get one from those 3. I guess I need to ask what happens if I don't. I know she will have more litters after these 3. I guess its a good idea to put some time limit on how long I need to wait. This is so difficult because I have heard this is a good breeder and she has healthy litters.


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## Anderson.beth (Jun 23, 2015)

Trin57 said:


> I know mine is having 3 litters so I should be able to get one from those 3. I guess I need to ask what happens if I don't. I know she will have more litters after these 3. I guess its a good idea to put some time limit on how long I need to wait. This is so difficult because I have heard this is a good breeder and she has healthy litters.


3 litters at once seems like a lot. I too am searching for a pup and all the breeders I have spoken with will refund the deposit if therd is not a pup for you in the agreed litter. Especially since they only do a few breedings a year. I would say this is a major red flag.


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## BlazenGR (Jan 12, 2012)

I quit taking deposits completely. Yes, I have had people back out, but I would rather they do that then bring a puppy into a situation that wasn't good for them or the puppy. I don't even care if they get cold feet. I only have a litter of 4 right now. One was "sold" prior to the breeding based on a referral; the prospective home had to contact me because the wife has been diagnosed with breast cancer and will be having surgery and chemo. A second puppy was committed to a home two weeks after they were born. He backed out because I couldn't return every one of his phone calls and emails that were coming on a daily basis. Whatever. Every time I have had a puppy past 10 weeks, it has been because I wanted to keep them for a couple more weeks. Even when I did take deposits, I never cashed the checks, and always returned them, no questions asked.

Lesley


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