# Advice Please: Very Small Puppy



## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Welcome to the forum.

Congratulations on your new little one, do you have Vet records, AKC Registration paperwork from the breeder? These would have have DOB on them. 

Can you post a pic of your pup?


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## thefrostedcake (Jul 18, 2018)

Thank you! I do have the paperwork with AKC info and date of birth which is 5/21. I also have the vaccine records and his weight at each appointment. He was 1.6 pounds at 3 weeks, 2.0 pounds at 5 weeks and 3.8 at 8 weeks.


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## thefrostedcake (Jul 18, 2018)

I'm having a hard time getting the pictures to attach. Let me try again.


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## thefrostedcake (Jul 18, 2018)

Here are a couple of pictures.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Ask your vet if there is the possibility of a shunt. 

He is way too small to pin on litter size- and I'm assuming he was dewormed at those 3 weight times. Even in a tube-fed scenario, the smallest 8 week old I've ever had was 7#.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

What information do you have on the parents? Did you see the parents? or at least the mom?

Would you be willing to post the parents registered names?? Might be able to provide more info. if you provided this information. My girl was full of parasites & coccidia when she came home and was 10 lbs at 7 weeks.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

This is abnormally small. Our guy was at least 4-5lbs even at 5 weeks. Do you know what the weights are on the other puppies in the litter, roughly? Even a visual guess? 

What's his behavior like? Good strength/stamina? How's he feel to your hands? Even an 8 week old Golden should feel pretty sturdy from a tactile perspective, like a little roll of bagels. 

If your vet rules out anything that could be inhibiting growth (which I would definitely push for), I might bring a holistic vet into the care team (alongside your primary vet) to ensure all the bases are covered in terms of boosting immunity/strength/nutrition profile/etc.

Edit to add: Could we get a more direct shot of his face? There's something in his facial coloring and maybe even some redness around the eyes that also gives off "newborn puppy", so I'm not surprised your vet is surprised he's actually 8 weeks.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

That is about the same size as our toy poodle was when we got him at 10 weeks of age. Your pup really is abnormally tiny for a Golden Retriever. As others have suggested, I would want to rule out underlying health issues. Was he a lot smaller than the other pups in the litter?


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## thefrostedcake (Jul 18, 2018)

Thank you for the reply! He was not born smaller than his siblings at birth per the Breeder. He was however 1 of 12 puppies and we were told that he, not being as aggressive as the others, didn't get as much nutrition from his Mom. We saw the Dad on site, but not the Mom. The Breeder was great about sending pictures and videos throughout the process and is reputable from what I can see based on reviews and feedback from previous litters. We just had no idea how tiny he really was until seeing him in person. We are scheduled tomorrow morning with our vet to do some additional blood work to determine if there are any other potential health issues.


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## thefrostedcake (Jul 18, 2018)

Based on photos of the others with the exception of one smaller female, he is about 1/3 their size. His behavior doesn't seem to be what I would expect which is another reason I wanted to seek advice here as well as from our Vet. He is sleeping a lot. He wasn't eating very well yesterday but that does seem to be better today. We have had him since Sunday so only a few days. I would describe him kind of like a little rag doll. When he is sleeping or sleepy he just kind of flops around in our arms. (That sounds terrible, we are very careful with him as he seems so fragile) I'm hoping he really is just very tiny for his age and that there is nothing serious with his health. We love him so much already. I did notice on the paperwork we received, the envelope has his date of birth as 5/21 but the AKC paperwork has his date of birth as 5/26. So only 5 days different, but that would have made him 7 weeks Sunday not 8, if I'm doing my math correctly. Let me see if I can get a closer picture of his face. I can tell you the rings around his eyes, (not sure how else to describe them) are identical to those of his Dad. We didn't have any concerns with the Breeder at all, their home and the areas where the puppies were kept were all very well kept and very professional. We visited a few other Breeders before selecting this one that we felt had some red flags, but we didn't have those concerns here. Thanks again for all of the replies.


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## thefrostedcake (Jul 18, 2018)

Close up picture of his face.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

thefrostedcake said:


> Based on photos of the others with the exception of one smaller female, he is about 1/3 their size. His behavior doesn't seem to be what I would expect which is another reason I wanted to seek advice here as well as from our Vet. He is sleeping a lot. He wasn't eating very well yesterday but that does seem to be better today. We have had him since Sunday so only a few days. I would describe him kind of like a little rag doll. When he is sleeping or sleepy he just kind of flops around in our arms. (That sounds terrible, we are very careful with him as he seems so fragile) I'm hoping he really is just very tiny for his age and that there is nothing serious with his health. We love him so much already. I did notice on the paperwork we received, the envelope has his date of birth as 5/21 but the AKC paperwork has his date of birth as 5/26. So only 5 days different, but that would have made him 7 weeks Sunday not 8, if I'm doing my math correctly. Let me see if I can get a closer picture of his face. I can tell you the rings around his eyes, (not sure how else to describe them) are identical to those of his Dad. We didn't have any concerns with the Breeder at all, their home and the areas where the puppies were kept were all very well kept and very professional. We visited a few other Breeders before selecting this one that we felt had some red flags, but we didn't have those concerns here. Thanks again for all of the replies.


What a SWEET looking boy, oh my gosh. Very glad to hear you are exploring potential issues with your vet, none of what you are saying is quite normal for a pup his age. Puppies absolutely sleep a lot but they are total tornados when awake. The "rag doll" sensation you are describing is exactly why I asked how he felt to your hands -- this is also not normal. His sweet sweet face looks quite lethargic, to my eyes. Those little eyes are not nearly as open and alert as they should be. I am sure he is in good hands with you -- I don't want to advise too much because this is absolutely a veterinarian situation. 

Also, please know that Golden Retriever breeders will go to incredible lengths to seem reputable, even if they are not. You would be astounded at how reputable some very not good breeders can seem. Did the breeder provide you with appropriate certs on the parents (not just AKC paperwork)? If not, that's a good cue that something may be amiss. *IF* it turns out that there is any issue with the breeder, that is definitely not a slight on your judgement and you'll find ample support here. Goldens and the folks who love them are unfortunately huge targets for this kind of thing.

Hope you'll keep us updated, snuggle your small floof for us


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

I really hope the little guy is ok health wise and just tiny. That size would definitely have me worried. He should be playing and biting, even if he's still getting settled. I have a litter of 10 five week old puppies and even the runt of the litter was almost 6 lbs on the day they hit 5 weeks.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Be sure to ask the vet about the possibility of a shunt. He has that 'look' to my eye, I've only ever seen a couple but they always look unthrifty with the tiny body size and rag doll body tone. 

Regardless of the parents' health statuses, something like that would be a birth defect and isn't likely to end well.... no matter how attentive you are to his needs, fixes take surgery. 

I am quite surprised the breeder sent him home. He's way too small to let a family put him in their hearts and possibly set your children up for heartbreak. Would've been way better to keep him herself till he reached a minimal weight of 8#.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Mirinde said:


> Also, please know that Golden Retriever breeders will go to incredible lengths to seem reputable, even if they are not. You would be astounded at how reputable some very not good breeders can seem. Did the breeder provide you with appropriate certs on the parents (not just AKC paperwork)? If not, that's a good cue that something may be amiss. *IF* it turns out that there is any issue with the breeder, that is definitely not a slight on your judgement and you'll find ample support here. Goldens and the folks who love them are unfortunately huge targets for this kind of thing.


You are SO on the money- and the lengths folks go, it would just be so much less effort to do things right to start with.. I will never understand that.


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## thefrostedcake (Jul 18, 2018)

You are all confirming my thoughts. Our 10 year old Golden was the runt of the litter and was much bigger at 8 weeks. It has been awhile since we've had a puppy so I was hoping I had just forgotten how sleepy they get. This little one does play he has a favorite ball that he'll chase and bark at, but his active time is just so minimal. I was thinking liver shunt or anemia possibly just based on what I've read online. I've started that general conversation with our Vet over the phone and we have our appointment this morning. Praying we get some answers and that there is a good outcome in all of this. It will devastating if something is seriously wrong. Thank you all - I will definitely post an update after our appointment.


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## jdavisryan (Jan 28, 2018)

thefrostedcake said:


> You are all confirming my thoughts. Our 10 year old Golden was the runt of the litter and was much bigger at 8 weeks. It has been awhile since we've had a puppy so I was hoping I had just forgotten how sleepy they get. This little one does play he has a favorite ball that he'll chase and bark at, but his active time is just so minimal. I was thinking liver shunt or anemia possibly just based on what I've read online. I've started that general conversation with our Vet over the phone and we have our appointment this morning. Praying we get some answers and that there is a good outcome in all of this. It will devastating if something is seriously wrong. Thank you all - I will definitely post an update after our appointment.


Just wanted to let you know that I'm pulling for your little guy, and I hope you get some encoraging news this morning. He's precious


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## Rundlemtn (Jan 16, 2015)

Pulling for you as well.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Really hoping your puppy is ok. Please let us know what happens at the vet.


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## thefrostedcake (Jul 18, 2018)

Thank you all for the thoughts and prayers. Our little guy has a pretty serious case of worms. Round and Hook. He has a hernia (which we knew about previously from the breeder) and the hernia does need to be repaired very soon. The problem is he is not healthy enough for surgery right now. So, we're treating the worms and praying he gets stronger. I just feel really bad for this little guy and a little dumb for not recognizing there was something wrong other than him being little when we first got him. We want so badly for him to be well and grow big and strong. Our Vet did say there is a possibility that there could be other underlying health issues but diagnosing and treating could be very costly. (This on top of the surgery for the hernia) His recommendation was to return the puppy. Our breeder has returned our money but has said it is not necessary to return him. So the biggest question now is, what next? We plan to treat the worms and hope that over the next couple of days he starts to get better. I cannot even fathom the alternative of him not getting better. We are all so attached and I'm just heartbroken that this little guy seems to have the odds stacked against him. We would definitely appreciate your thoughts and prayers for our little guy. We've given him the name Nashville Clifford. (Clifford seemed appropriate!) He goes by Nash. If any of you have Goldens that have had worms and/or hernias, and have thoughts or suggestions on anything additional we can do (besides the recommended treatment of our Vet) please let me know. I keep hoping this will have a happy ending, and that he'll get well and a year from now he'll be so big, we'll all be shocked that he was ever so small. Also, I do want to mention that our Breeder has been reaching out to us and responds immediately when I message her. I don't feel like she misled us or that this was intentional in any way. I have read and heard horror stories and feel fortunate that even though we have a little guy that needs a lot of extra special care, our money was returned. Thank you again!!


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

I'm very sorry, I hope he will be doing better and will be healthy enough soon so he can have the hernia repair surgery. 

Sending good thoughts and many prayers to you and Nash.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

He's on the path to getting healthy and that's good! Hopefully it's just the works that have kept him small and he'll catch up now. You might want to get him on a probiotic to help his tummy recover from the worms and treatment. Geneflora is my top pick, but I use Forti Flora when that's unavailable. I'll be thinking of little Nash and your family!


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

First, take a deep breath. You are doing great, you felt something was not right and kept asking questions until you got some answers.

Second, it's pretty common for puppies to have intestinal worms, so this is not so unusual. You may need to repeat treatment to completely remove them, but he should be fine after a couple of treatments. 

If he has an umbilical hernia those are somewhat common also. Normally they can be corrected during the same surgery when they are neutered. It is a little bit of an expense but hopefully not too much more than a normal neuter. 

In order for him to be this small the breeder must not have wormed the puppies at all. I'm glad she refunded your money. She should not have sent home a puppy in that condition, and I'm sure she knew that.

He can overcome this and grow, and there is a very good chance he will catch up in size as he matures. There's also a chance he may be smaller than average. In any case, with good care and love he will definitely be a loving family companion.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

My heart goes out to your family and Nash. Sending prayers that once he is rid of the worms, he will feel so much better. 
When I fostered puppies, they would often come to me tiny, frail, and full of worms, but their will to live was always amazingly strong, for such tiny guys. Once they were dewormed, I fed them small amounts of a warm, softened and mashed high quality kibble at least half dozen times a day, and quite honestly, it didn't take them long to rebound and become healthy and happy little pups.
I hope things go well for your little guy and he grows up to be a strong and healthy boy! 

Praying for a good outcome for you and your boy!


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## bigblackdog (Jun 14, 2013)

*Not a quality breeder*

I'm sorry to hear about your pup, and I do hope he gets better.
I just want to point out...that even though your "breeder" is concerned....they should never have let this pup go when it was so tiny. A quality breeder usually has the litter of pups checked by a vet before they leave. The breeder should have noticed a hernia, and the pups should have regularly been wormed. No decent breeder would be sending a puppy home with a heavy load of hook and round worms. Sounds like these pups have never been wormed, or not wormed enough.

You may want to let the forum members the name of this breeder...so they can avoid heartbreak.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

I'm so glad your money was refunded so that you can put it towards his care! I hope the worming treatment has him feeling much better soon and that you are in for a land sharknado in no time  

I'm an enormous fan of Western Medicine vets but this is a situation where, again, I would probably seek out a holistic vet to have on the care team. He will probably need quite a bit of immunity and nutritional support as he catches up and I can't think of a better source of info on that. Since he has very little weight left to lose, does your vet have you set up with any support in case the further deworming disrupts his appetite or causes loose stools/vomiting? That's one base I would try to cover before rolling into the weekend and potentially ending up at the emergency vet with an even weaker pup.

Thinking all the good thoughts for your family and Nash!! I'm busting up over here at "Clifford", it sounds like he is in a family with the good humor needed to ride this kind of thing out!


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## thefrostedcake (Jul 18, 2018)

bigblackdog said:


> I'm sorry to hear about your pup, and I do hope he gets better.
> I just want to point out...that even though your "breeder" is concerned....they should never have let this pup go when it was so tiny. A quality breeder usually has the litter of pups checked by a vet before they leave. The breeder should have noticed a hernia, and the pups should have regularly been wormed. No decent breeder would be sending a puppy home with a heavy load of hook and round worms. Sounds like these pups have never been wormed, or not wormed enough.
> 
> You may want to let the forum members the name of this breeder...so they can avoid heartbreak.


Thank you! We are hoping he is on the road to recovery too! I do appreciate your concern and don't disagree that the puppy was too tiny to come home with us. I probably should have recognized this myself. The breeder did have the litter checked by a Vet, we have the Vet records including immunization/worming details. The hernia was discovered after his last vet appointment and the breeder called me that morning to advise of the hernia. Because we were driving several hours to pick up the puppy and were already nearly there, we agreed that she would take the amount of $ off of his purchase price for the cost of the hernia repair. She is an established breeder with many returning customers and very good reviews. I think this was a unique situation, but again I don't disagree that he was too small to come home with us.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Fortunately hernia repairs aren't terribly costly. And round worms are very common. The hooks are what you're going to have to give him time to get over. He's probably anemic and with that comes lots of side effects. And you have to be very careful w your children and his bottom because humans can get both round and hooks.Nash is a GREAT name- that's my son's name.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Prism is correct, wash hands often... no bare feet! Clean up poops quickly. With that said I was fortunate that my pup was larger but was also loaded with parasites, hook/round/tape and coccidia... along with a UTI  We visited the vet every 2 weeks for 4 months and she was wormed on every visit and because of the UTI was on antibiotics. She is now 2 and hasn't been sick once since we got through all this.

At least the breeder returned your money, I would have welcomed this to help pay for the all the vet care! Treat your pup like a newborn baby, feed often, keep clean and snuggle often! Remember they can't always keep themselves warm, LOL or cool, there thermostat isn't working yet 

Prayers coming your way and hope you will continue to let us know your progress. This takes time so be patient.


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## thefrostedcake (Jul 18, 2018)

Quick update - Nash seems to be a little perkier over the last couple of days. Still spending a lot of time sleeping but he likes to follow me around the house and even trots a little wagging his tail often. (Even this is a big improvement) I've been feeding him 5-6 times a day mostly boiled chicken but mixing in some of the A/D food the Vet recommended for Nutrients. I'm looking for a holistic vet in our area for additional advice on overall care. As for caution with the worms, we picked up some preventative from our Vet for both our older Golden and our two outdoor cats. I'm using pet wipes after he has a bowel movement to clean his bottom and making sure our boys wear shoes. I never expected having a new puppy to be quite like this. I feel like I need to take Maternity leave.  In all seriousness though I am fortunate to work from home so the puppy isn't alone and kenneled all day. He has the will to live, and we're doing all we can to help him. I'll try to post updates occasionally especially as he gets stronger/healthier and is able to have the hernia surgery. I am so thankful to have found this forum. You've all made this a lot easier to manage with your advice and support.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Great to hear he's doing better, thanks for the update.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

thefrostedcake said:


> Quick update - Nash seems to be a little perkier over the last couple of days. Still spending a lot of time sleeping but he likes to follow me around the house and even trots a little wagging his tail often. (Even this is a big improvement) I've been feeding him 5-6 times a day mostly boiled chicken but mixing in some of the A/D food the Vet recommended for Nutrients. I'm looking for a holistic vet in our area for additional advice on overall care. As for caution with the worms, we picked up some preventative from our Vet for both our older Golden and our two outdoor cats. I'm using pet wipes after he has a bowel movement to clean his bottom and making sure our boys wear shoes. I never expected having a new puppy to be quite like this. I feel like I need to take Maternity leave.  In all seriousness though I am fortunate to work from home so the puppy isn't alone and kenneled all day. He has the will to live, and we're doing all we can to help him. I'll try to post updates occasionally especially as he gets stronger/healthier and is able to have the hernia surgery. I am so thankful to have found this forum. You've all made this a lot easier to manage with your advice and support.


My very much adult pup is going through some stuff right now, and it really does feel like having a newborn in the house!! It's amazing how much work it is but you guys are doing great  I love that he's wagging his tail!!


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## R and B (Jul 4, 2018)

Hi, I just found your post and am glad to hear your puppy seems to be doing a bit better! 

We are in a similar situation with a very small puppy we just rescued (we consider her a rescue - she came from very, very questionable origins) on July 3. We were told that she was 10 weeks old, but she only weighed 3.5lbs (our vet estimates that she was probably closer to 7 weeks at the time, but still extremely small)

I also had significant concerns about her size, but fortunately she’s tested negative for everything, and other than one bout of diarhea/vomiting/lethargy that lasted 24 hours (hence the testing for “everything”), she has really thrived since coming into our family just 3 weeks ago and has already more than doubled in size and now weighs 7.5lbs at ~10 weeks old.

Anyway, just sharing to provide some reassurance (if that’s possible!) that being little doesn’t mean they can’t get big and strong or that there are definitely underlying health issues besides the worms and hernia. Praying for your little guy!


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## thefrostedcake (Jul 18, 2018)

R and B said:


> Hi, I just found your post and am glad to hear your puppy seems to be doing a bit better!
> 
> We are in a similar situation with a very small puppy we just rescued (we consider her a rescue - she came from very, very questionable origins) on July 3. We were told that she was 10 weeks old, but she only weighed 3.5lbs (our vet estimates that she was probably closer to 7 weeks at the time, but still extremely small)
> 
> ...


So glad your little one is doing so much better - very reassuring to hear!


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## thefrostedcake (Jul 18, 2018)

Hi everyone! Just dropping in to share some happy news! Nash is doing great - growing and getting stronger every day. He's developed such a fun (ornery) personality and we just love him to pieces. Barley, (our 10 year old Golden) tolerates him well. LOL! Nash is up to 9.2 pounds and is finally content eating dry dog food from his dish. (No more boiling chicken and hand feeding him) We have an appointment next week with our Vet to see about scheduling the hernia repair surgery. Hoping after that hurdle he'll be on the road to a long and happy life. So glad to have found you all here. Thanks for the prayers and well wishes.


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

That's great news, thanks for the update.


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