# dog food



## stumped (Sep 9, 2019)

Is everyones choice of dog food Purina Pro Plan?I see that quite often on here


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

I feed Nature's Variety Be Natural line, not the grain free Instinct line. I also sometimes feed a full meal of their instinct frozen raw food patties or I supplement with he raw medallions in with the kibble,


Some feed Fromm, Pro Plan, Royal Canin. There are a few types out there.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

stumped said:


> Is everyones choice of dog food Purina Pro Plan?I see that quite often on here


 No. I feed my four dogs Acana, have done so for years with no problems.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

Not mine.. I feed Kirkland Chicken and Rice and have done so for years. (by Diamond) My 6 month old Golden gets Kirkland Puppy Chicken and Rice....I will never knowingly feed a food that has corn, or food from a company that actively promotes cheap fillers. Corn is usually reserved for low tier low cost foods.


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

I use Eukanuba for my retrievers (Lab and Goldens). But I'm also a fan of Purina Pro Plan.


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## CCG_FDL (Sep 23, 2019)

I feed Royal Canin Golden Retriever Puppy and have had no issues at all. May switch to Pro Plan when I move to adult food.


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## Shnga (Jan 25, 2019)

I feed Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy to my 11 month old after trying many different foods. Will be looking to find another food shortly as she is getting older and I've noticed that her ears are getting red and itchy since being on the Eukanuba. Might switch to PPP sensitive skin and stomach or may try something totally different.


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## daisy1234 (Jun 17, 2018)

I'm a Fromm user. My girl is doing great on it.


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## ecaba (Aug 19, 2019)

Currently in the middle of transitioning from Diamond Puppy to Purina Pro Plan Sport 26/16


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

_*Spoiler alert..NO Facebook "research" here.*_
*There is a bit of information about just how certain dog food companys feel about our pets vs their profits though.*

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*"Cancer Causing Aflatoxins Found In Dog Foods*









By: Dana Scott - 
Reading Time: 4 minutes

35k290Shares35k

A recent test on dry pet food has revealed some dangerous facts about the food your dog or cat may be eating.
The Consumer Council of Hong Kong recently published the results of testing performed on nearly 40 popular pet foods. The results were a shock to many pet owners. Three popular US food manufacturers, Purina, Hill’s and AvoDerm, all had foods that were found to contain aflatoxin B1. The Hill’s food tested was cat food.
*What Are Aflatoxins?*

Grains such as corn, wheat, and rice, as well as nuts and legumes, are often contaminated with molds, often as a result of poor growing conditions, substandard or extended storage. Molds called aflatoxins can easily grow and produce a very potent carcinogen. Aflatoxins are very stable and even the high temperature processing involved in kibble manufacturing won’t destroy them, leaving little protection for any dog eating that food.
Purina confirmed this in a statement to the South China Morning Post. They stated that cancer-causing aflatoxins were an “unavoidable natural contaminant.” AvoDerm stated that they have since removed the corn from its formula as they believed it was the source of the aflatoxins.
Corn has become a major source of aflatoxin. Droughts in the US Midwest in recent years have caused a record amount of mold-infested crops amounting to nearly $75 million in insurance claims. In response to this surplus of corn that wasn’t safe for human consumption, the FDA increased the allowable amount of aflatoxin permitted in animal feed.
*A History Of Aflatoxins And Sick Pets*

The pet food industry is no stranger to product recalls due to these molds. The earliest documented aflatoxin outbreak dates back to 1974 when hundreds of stray dogs in India died after consuming aflatoxin-contaminated corn. In 1998, 55 dogs died of contaminated corn and in December 2005, over 100 dogs were killed from aflatoxin-contaminated pet food in the US.
Testing in the US also shows that apart from the recalls from high levels of aflatoxins, nearly every pet food on the market contains aflatoxins or other mold-related mycotoxins. The animal health and nutrition company Alltech analyzed 965 pet food samples and found 98% of them were contaminated with one or more mycotoxins, while 93% contained two or more mycotoxins.
Even grain-free pet foods still contain a high carbohydrate content, so there is the potential for mold spores to contaminate the kibble during storage, especially if it is exposed to a moist environment. This can also happen in your home if your kibble is stored in a moist basement or an open container.
*How Do Aflatoxins Make Dogs Sick?*

Cancer causing aflatoxins primarily affect the liver and dogs who eat 0.5 to 1 mg aflatoxin/kg body weight can die within days. Smaller amounts of aflatoxins, like those found in most pet food samples, can cause sub-acute symptoms including weight loss, lethargy, jaundice and even death.
Aflatoxins are also carcinogenic. They bind with DNA and cause cell mutations. Newberne and Wogan (1968) were able to produce malignant tumors in rats with less than 1 mg of aflatoxin per kg of feed.
Because eating small amounts of aflatoxins over a period of time will cause cumulative liver damage or cancerous tumors, a very small percentage of affected dogs would be reported. This means that tens of thousands of cases of liver disease and cancer could be caused by contaminated foods every year but the link would never be reported.
*[Related]* Skip the kibble and move to raw. Here are 10 rules that make it really easy.
*That’s Not All They Found*

The Consumer Council study also found some other alarming trends. Three of the US brands tested (Purina, Iams and Solid Gold) also contained melamine or cyanuric acid. These are the substances that poisoned thousands of pets in 2007.
On top of that, processed pet foods also contain other toxic ingredients including heterocyclic amines, acrylamides, and most recently discovered in dry, cooked pet foods, PBDEs (polybrominated diphenyl ethers) – a chemical used as a flame retardant. Learn more about these toxic ingredients.
Trevor Smith, a mycotoxin researcher at the University of Guelph, says “A shift in pet food ingredients is on. Instead of worrying about bacteria spoilage or disease contamination, like we have in the past, we now have to focus on removing mycotoxins.”
Cancer causing aflatoxins are harming our dogs. Pet owners should avoid any food containing corn, especially as mold infested corns are added to animal feeds. However it’s important to also remember that melamine and other harmful substances will still be in many processed foods, so feeding fresh, whole foods remains the best way to protect your pet from cancer and other diseases that processed pet foods can cause.
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*[UPDATED] An Unexpected Cause Of Cancer In Dogs*









By: Julia Henriques - 
Reading Time: 6 minutes

12k354Shares13k

It’s estimated that over 6 million dogs die from cancer each year. More than 1 in 2 dogs will get cancer at some point.
That means you need to do whatever you can to reduce your dog’s risk …
… but, in order to prevent it, first you need to know what causes cancer in dogs.
*What Causes Cancer In Dogs?*

In 1981 Oxford University epidemiologists Richard Doll and Richard Peto published a report for the US Congress called _The Causes of Cancer_. It said that about 1/3 of human cancers were due to smoking and 1/3 were due to diet. Viruses, genetics, environment and unknown causes made up the rest.
After reviewing this research, experts at the World Cancer Research Fund said that cancer’s a largely preventable disease: “The strongest evidence indicating that food and nutrition modify the risk of cancer comes from a combination of different types of epidemiological enquiry, supported by experimental findings, and by identification of plausible biological pathways.”
So, research shows diet can be a cause of cancer in humans and changing the diet can help prevent it.
But this is talking about people …
… what does it have to do with our dogs?
*Carcinogens In Dog Food*

Even though the US Congress hasn’t commissioned a study of the impact of diet on cancer in dogs, there are numerous other studies that show certain diets are a problem.
After all, the carcinogenic ingredients in human food may be in your dog’s food too, especially if he eats kibble.
The most common carcinogens in commercial dog food are aflatoxins. Aflatoxins are a type of mycotoxin that come from the Aspergillus species of fungus. This means they’re a type of mold and they are the cancer-causing ingredients in dog food.
Many commercial dog foods contain grains like corn, wheat and rice. Because of poor growing conditions or poor long term storage, this mold grows on these grains pretty quickly.
Think the cooking process gets rid of this mold? It doesn’t. Aflatoxins are very stable. The high temperatures needed to process them don’t even kill them.
Here are some of the foods that are most commonly contaminated with aflatoxins:


Corn
Wheat cereals
Peanuts
Rice
Soybeans
Walnuts
Brazil nuts








Aflatoxins are a major problem. They can bind with DNA and cause cell mutations. If your dog eats a small amount of aflatoxins over a long period time, he becomes a high risk for cancer.
And the presence of mycotoxins in dog food isn’t a secret. Dr Max Hawkins says, “The pet food industry is no stranger to recalled products due to mycotoxins … In December 2005, 76 dogs were killed from aflatoxin-contaminated pet food in the US, causing a large recall.”
*[Related] *There have been a ton of product recalls for aflatoxins. Find them here.
*Is Cost A Factor?*

Low cost kibble is usually criticized for substandard quality. But is this low quality food the only food contaminated with aflatoxins?
Nope.
A recent study proves that aflatoxins hide out in all kinds of kibble, no matter the price.
The results are alarming to say the least:


Standard food – aflatoxins found in 100% of the foods tested
Premium food – aflatoxins found in 100% of the foods tested
Super premium food- aflatoxins found in 69.2% of the foods tested


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Without citations, it's the same as FB research.


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## rtboswell (Aug 17, 2019)

Prism Goldens said:


> Without citations, it's the same as FB research.


If, you follow the rabbit trail of links throughout the articles, there are some citations eventually, but none seem to be of any major qualitative substance or even pertinent to the main point of the OP. I can link random scientific journal articles all day long to “substantiate” my research/perspective, but a discerning reader such as Prism will see right through it. The general public? Not so much normally and that’s why anyone with a website or Facebook account can convince the undiscerning reader. I see it all the time with general news stories and in my old field within the humanities. 

This means Prism’s point stands firm. 

However, there does seem to be a research bias by Dana Scott who happens to sell premium supplements for those who feed raw. Imagine that. ?‍♂?‍♂

The takeaway is this: be very careful what you believe to be “fact.” Fear mongering as a tactic has led many to false beliefs.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

Missed this I guess:


*The Consumer Council of Hong Kong *recently published the results of testing performed on nearly 40 popular pet foods. The results were a shock to many pet owners. Three popular US food manufacturers, Purina, Hill’s and AvoDerm, all had foods that were found to contain aflatoxin B1. The Hill’s food tested was cat food.


Typical responses from Purina and the FDA!

"Corn has become a major source of aflatoxin. Droughts in the US Midwest in recent years have caused a record amount of *mold-infested crops *amounting to nearly *$75 million in insurance claims. In response to this surplus of corn that wasn’t safe for human consumption, the FDA increased the allowable amount of aflatoxin permitted in animal feed."
*
"Molds called aflatoxins can easily grow and produce a very potent carcinogen. Aflatoxins are very stable and even the high temperature processing involved in kibble manufacturing won’t destroy them, leaving little protection for any dog eating that food.
*Purina confirmed this in a statement to the South China Morning Post. They stated that cancer-causing aflatoxins were an “unavoidable natural contaminant.” AvoDerm stated that they have since removed the corn from its formula as they believed it was the source of the aflatoxins."*


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

Let's recap.

Some people believe the small DCM sampling from the FDA, so they don't feed grain free foods (I agree; it's smart to be prudent)

Some people believe the "findings" of a FB group regarding DCM in Goldens and consult Dr. Google over their vets.

However, the very same people would continue to feed foods with corn, despite similar concerns about CORN and aflatoxins. It would be so easy to put this matter to rest, by doing what Avoderm did, and eliminate corn from their formula. Of course that would decrease Purina and Mars' profit margin by forcing them to make a higher quality food..less the corn.


Fear Mongering? 

Follow the $$......
My sympathies to the dogs, that eat this stuff. (the Soylent Green for dogs!)


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Soylent Green- made of euthanized humans. Not corn. 
(You must be my age.. when I was senior in HS my English class went to see this movie as an example of dystopian fiction... )

regardless...
EVERYONE has a motive. I don't need to track your graphs down to know they too have motives. The FB group you refer to is owned by the biggest promoter of Royal Canin. He's always going to have a motive in that he is probably being subsidized by RC. 

You might hate Purina, but in reality, PPP is one of the few foods with zero cases of DCM. And you don't show your dogs, but in reality, PPP is one of the biggest 'show dog' foods- and those dogs are clearly not suffering -as is evidenced by their excellent coats, teeth, body tone. And in real life we are all pro "whatever-we feed"... but unless "we" are formally educated in canine nutrition, "we" are only offering an uneducated opinion. And opinions are colored by experiences but in science, experience is something we control for. Do we all know or offer our controls too when posting on a forum such as this? Not usually. People often believe their opinion is gold by virtue of their experience. So when one is looking to find an experience perspective, one needs to hit up the folks who've successfully raised hundreds of dogs.That, or look to agencies doing research and seek to find their errs in study setup. That's MY opinion.


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

Prism Goldens said:


> An aside- are you also Jeff S? You both came here around the same time, and both seem to be set on the same general positions...


Moderators can check the IP address and if it is the same IP address for both accounts I would assume they could notify the user and correct the issue. I think having more then one user ID could substantiate trolling.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> Moderators can check the IP address and if it is the same IP address for both accounts I would assume they could notify the user and correct the issue. I think having more then one user ID could substantiate trolling.


Accounts of all users are verified at time of Registration, these are two different users from two different locations.


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## Cjm (Oct 26, 2018)

Here is a good independent website on the various food options https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> Moderators can check the IP address and if it is the same IP address for both accounts I would assume they could notify the user and correct the issue. I think having more then one user ID could substantiate trolling.



Sorry to disappoint you.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

Prism Goldens said:


> Soylent Green- made of euthanized humans. Not corn.
> (You must be my age.. when I was senior in HS my English class went to see this movie as an example of dystopian fiction... )
> 
> regardless...
> ...



I think probably a bit older, and you already know that I don't show. I never go out of my way to hide my feelings, and the only motivation that I have is to present another point of view for others to see..The choice is always up to them, and I never try to impose my own views on anyone. 

The issue that I brought to THIS discussion concerned afatoxins from CORN, it's mold, the FDA changing the rules to permit substandard corn to be put into our pet's food, and companys like Purina saying that it was a natural occurrence and to basically get over it. NOT ACCEPTABLE, when the simple answer would have been to do what Avoderm did (not saying anything + or - about them, but they did the right thing in that instance, imo)

Trying to lump that together with my comment on DCM is totally misleading.


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

jeffscott947 said:


> Sorry to disappoint you.


Not disappointed. I tend to believe we are all entitled to our opinions, and have the right to express them. I wasn't making an accusation, merely a statement. I believe in researching and finding real answers to questions from proven professionals, in this case our moderators.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

Cjm said:


> Here is a good independent website on the various food options https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/



Sadly, this isn't a good source of information. It's written by a dentist (for humans) who has an interest in dog nutrition but no formal training and no credentials. Much better to seek advice from someone with training in canine nutrition.


As the owner of DogFoodAdvisor states on his website: "We rely entirely on the integrity of the information provided by each company on its product label or its website."


I would not use the information from that site as a basis for deciding what to feed my dog. When I chose my dog's food, I asked a trained nutritionist for advice. I've been feeding Royal Canin Gastro High Energy for over two years now, and my dog does very well on it.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

jeffscott947 said:


> I think probably a bit older, and you already know that I don't show. I never go out of my way to hide my feelings, and the only motivation that I have is to present another point of view for others to see..The choice is always up to them, and I never try to impose my own views on anyone.
> 
> The issue that I brought to THIS discussion concerned afatoxins from CORN, it's mold, the FDA changing the rules to permit substandard corn to be put into our pet's food, and companys like Purina saying that it was a natural occurrence and to basically get over it. NOT ACCEPTABLE, when the simple answer would have been to do what Avoderm did (not saying anything + or - about them, but they did the right thing in that instance, imo)
> 
> Trying to lump that together with my comment on DCM is totally misleading.





It's actually spelled Aflatoxin if people want to look it up. But that mold is in more grains then just corn (in corn, corn silage, all cereal *grains*, sorghum, peanuts, and other oilseeds). It's grows INSIDE the grain, it's not topical and it must be tested for. EVERY major company (Hill's, Purina, Nutro, Iams/Euk and others like Diamond) tests for it before the truck can off load the grains. Diamond missed testing a few trucks back in 2005 with that massive recall they had. Most don't know but the average rejection rate due to aflatoxin back from 2005-2012 was about 30%. 



This mold was the subject of scrutiny in relationship to potential issues with hip dysplasia as the suspicion was mycotoxins like aflatoxin in the food feed to pregnant dogs and the dysplasia may have been starting in the womb. Maybe the reasoning it still happens in puppies from parents with generations of certified hips I have no idea.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> Moderators can check the IP address and if it is the same IP address for both accounts I would assume they could notify the user and correct the issue. I think having more then one user ID could substantiate trolling.



Inquiring in a *PM* to a forum moderator is not rude or insulting..

Inquiring, about a member trolling, leveling insults at those with differing opinions, on a *public forum* is both rude and insulting; especially since the accusatory remark was totally incorrect in the first place.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> It's actually spelled Aflatoxin if people want to look it up. But that mold is in more grains then just corn (in corn, corn silage, all cereal *grains*, sorghum, peanuts, and other oilseeds). It's grows INSIDE the grain, it's not topical and it must be tested for. EVERY major company (Hill's, Purina, Nutro, Iams/Euk and others like Diamond) tests for it before the truck can off load the grains. Diamond missed testing a few trucks back in 2005 with that massive recall they had. Most don't know but the average rejection rate due to aflatoxin back from 2005-2012 was about 30%.
> 
> 
> 
> This mold was the subject of scrutiny in relationship to potential issues with hip dysplasia as the suspicion was mycotoxins like aflatoxin in the food feed to pregnant dogs and the dysplasia may have been starting in the womb. Maybe the reasoning it still happens in puppies from parents with generations of certified hips I have no idea.



The issue discussed was why Purina defends it, (not why my spell checker messed up), uses corn previously declared unfit for human consumption by the FDA (Trusted worldwide sources again), and implies that Dog owners get over it, since it is a normal by-product. They neglect to offer a reason why they simply don't just change the formula..After all" new and improved" on the bag always sets the hook.


The carcinogen and dog deaths associated with ingestion are issues that have also been avoided, which was in the article that was quoted.


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## Tony G (Oct 2, 2018)

In general I stay away from any products Nestle owns or makes which includes Purina as Nestle is a horrible company with awful business practices. I'll stick with the American owned and manufactured Diamond products but I am biased as their HQ and Meta MO plant are maybe a 30 minute drive from my house so I consider it buying local for me.


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

Aflatoxin can now be tested for at the site the farmers sell the grain, prior to being unloaded, along with moisture content. We own a grain farm; corn, soybeans, and wheat. Our corn is not sold for dog food, but is sold to large poultry growers. I can not say whether or not the mills that supply the dog food companies do the same testing as the ones supplying the poultry industry. Here's an interesting thought though.... If your dog food contains chicken what are the chickens being fed?

This is not a discussion I really want to go into any further. I'm quite sure that someone that grew up on a working farm may have different views on some of the issues. We all do the best we can by our pets with the knowledge we have.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

Growing up on a farm does not make one an expert on the dangers of feeding corn to dogs, nor would it provide any insight as to why a company that is aware and admits to the dangers; (PURINA) continues to sell products containing corn; I am afraid to say, nor provide proper credentials. Since a corn farmer makes their living farming and selling corn.....their OPINIONS would be very suspect and biased imo. They are simply experts at farming!


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

@Tony G
I have a Purina Pet Food Plant close by (Reno-Sparks, Nevada), but I haven't gone by in years. The stench and filth that used to surround the place were terrible. I was always surprised that the County did not make them clean it up. Have not be by in many yrs, so hopefully they have cleaned up the place.


I was a new dog owner in those days and wanted to fully investigate the foods I was buying. Needless to say, Purina (now Nestle/Purina) was never a consideration after that. 



BTW..You and I, and a few others are in the minority here.


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

jeffscott947 said:


> Growing up on a farm does not make one an expert on the dangers of feeding corn to dogs, nor would it provide any insight as to why a company that is aware and admits to the dangers; (PURINA) continues to sell products containing corn; I am afraid to say, nor provide proper credentials. Since a corn farmer makes their living farming and selling corn.....their OPINIONS would be very suspect and biased imo. They are simply experts at farming!


Do you even read what I write, or are you literally here just to try and argue with someone? I'm not your girl. I have better things to do. Don't you have a puppy to train? 

Bless your heart!!!


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## Valhalla09 (Jan 26, 2019)

Has anyone looked into this food? They just started carrying this at our local specialty pet food store.

https://www.farmina.com/us/


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> Do you even read what I write, or are you literally here just to try and argue with someone? I'm not your girl. I have better things to do. Don't you have a puppy to train?
> 
> Bless your heart!!!





So rude.
G'day.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> Aflatoxin can now be tested for at the site the farmers sell the grain, prior to being unloaded, along with moisture content. We own a grain farm; corn, soybeans, and wheat. Our corn is not sold for dog food, but is sold to large poultry growers. I can not say whether or not the mills that supply the dog food companies do the same testing as the ones supplying the poultry industry. Here's an interesting thought though.... If your dog food contains chicken what are the chickens being fed?
> 
> This is not a discussion I really want to go into any further. I'm quite sure that someone that grew up on a working farm may have different views on some of the issues. We all do the best we can by our pets with the knowledge we have.





True but that testing has been done since well before 2005


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

jeffscott947 said:


> @Tony G
> I have a Purina Pet Food Plant close by (Reno-Sparks, Nevada), but I haven't gone by in years. The stench and filth that used to surround the place were terrible. I was always surprised that the County did not make them clean it up. Have not be by in many yrs, so hopefully they have cleaned up the place.
> 
> 
> ...



I have news for you. I've been physically in the food manufacturing plants of Purina, Hill's, Iams/Euk, Natura, Nutro, Wellness, Diamond, Champion and a couple I can't remember at the moment and EVERY single of them have the SAME stench. It's from the extrusion process with the fats and oils.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Reminder everyone- Rule #13

Everyone has different view points and opinions, you may like/dislike or agree/disagree with them, please be respectful to one another when making comments.


https://www.goldenretrieverforum.co...6-grf-board-rules-registration-agreement.html



> 13. GoldenRetrieverForum.com Members will treat individuals with respect. The Golden Retriever Forum relies on its members to self-monitor in terms of rudeness that is just gratuitous. It is one thing to focus passionately on a topic; it is another thing to call someone an offensive name or to be condescending. We hold golden temperaments on high, so let's see our members be friendly to one another as well, even when disagreements occur. You may respectfully disagree with a member’s point of view but do not assault the member or individual personally, or be rude in your responses. Do not use statements that incite conflicts among members. This could include such things as rehashing conflicts from past or closed topics. Do not make abusive, hateful, harassing, or threatening statements. Do not make statements that are untrue, misleading or based on rumors. Discussions of a breeder’s practice are permitted but keep these discussions as you would “reviewing” any other type of business. No personal attacks on the actual individual, who is the breeder, will be permitted. If a thread starts getting heated, take it to a mod, NOT PUBLIC. Those who do not follow this can be warned, suspended or banned.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> I have news for you. I've been physically in the food manufacturing plants of Purina, Hill's, Iams/Euk, Natura, Nutro, Wellness, Diamond, Champion and a couple I can't remember at the moment and EVERY single of them have the SAME stench. It's from the extrusion process with the fats and oils.



Moot point since you haven't visited the plant here in Sparks. 

In fairness, my last visit was well over 25 yrs ago, and I have zero interest in returning. Releasing stench/pollutants into our valley air is a violation of our air pollution and air quality regs; and is NOT tolerated. Temperature inversions cause that stagnant air to remain close to the valley floor..especially in the winter. My house was well above the pollution line for many years, but it has gradually crept into my area as well. The release of stench/pollution is not tolerated by our populace, since people have to breath it. The Purina Plant lies at the very bottem of the valley floor, which amplifies their problem.



Back to the point of my post. With Purina admitting that this by-product is a carcinogenic agent (the original point); why don't they simply reformulate the food and avoid the entire issue that could kill our dogs?...


It would be up to Purina to step forward and correct the Problem (which they refuse to do) ..Just like Avoderm did..Avoderm was not positive that it was the corn, but they manned up, and removed it anyway, which is to their credit. People that truly have our dog's interests at heart would do it in a split second, in-spite of a negative impact at the bottem line (which would translate into a price increase at the retail level). 



The other point, not addressed, was why the FDA permitted animal feed companies to use "not fit for human consumption" corn to be used in in animal food, after a huge amount of spoiled corn was not destroyed and mulched. (they simply changed the regulation) Money talks and nobody walks with the FDA..been that way forever.....Human foods and meds included.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

Like talking to a wall. Can't talk to someone that doesn't hear what people have to say and dismisses what people say as moot every time since they know everything.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> Like talking to a wall. Can't talk to someone that doesn't hear what people have to say and dismisses what people say as moot every time since they know everything.



I am not the wall you speak of, and don't try to divert attention from the central issue, with insults, grammatical corrections, and innuendo.


Your point about visiting OTHER plants is MOOT, relative to the only plant that I mentioned; if you read the part about the Reno/Sparks/ Tahoe valley air pollution/stench problems. That's what those industrial filters are made for.

If people choose not to like what I say, it is so much easier not to read my posts and do something else..Like moving on.

I don't attempt to belittle, and insult others that don't agree with me either. I also feed the same foods (and meds when needed) that I mention positively, so that I can speak from my own experience. I don't attempt to recruit others to my way of thinking with PMs, and self platitudes either.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> I have news for you. I've been physically in the food manufacturing plants of Purina, Hill's, Iams/Euk, Natura, Nutro, Wellness, Diamond, Champion and a couple I can't remember at the moment and EVERY single of them have the SAME stench. It's from the extrusion process with the fats and oils.



I am literally less than a mile from a corn processing facility (Cargill) right now at work. Corn processing, in general, is smelly. It stinks like generic dog food and gets corn dust all over everything. If you wax your car, it turns into a nasty film. They make corn syrup. I'm sure it's used in many applications. 



I feed the Goldens and my hound mix Purina Pro Plan Sport and they are in fantastic condition. I feed my other mix breed Iams. She's older and since she's part Pug she is more likely to gain weight. She is a healthy 10 year old.


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

Valhalla09 said:


> Has anyone looked into this food? They just started carrying this at our local specialty pet food store.
> 
> https://www.farmina.com/us/


Many people here feed Farmina. I tried the cod and orange ancestral grains a while ago when my older dog started exhibiting issues. It didn't turn out to be the answer for him, but I think it's a fine food. He had gas issues while on it and we ended up finding out he had bigger issues going on then food choice. I ended up going back to the PPP line since it wasn't the problem or answer for us.

Best of luck with whatever you choose.


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## Valhalla09 (Jan 26, 2019)

Thanks DblTrblGolden2. It seems like a good food. Ragnar was gassy on the PPP, he is good on the Fromm one. The N&D one is appealing to me.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

jeffscott947 said:


> Your point about visiting OTHER plants is MOOT, relative to the only plant that I mentioned


Well, that's a logical fallacy. You've set yourself up as the only possible authority on the subject. If anyone offers any other evidence -- such as the same kind of smell coming from 20 or more other plants making the same products -- you can waive such evidence away by simply claiming:

"Your point is moot because you didn't visit the one plant I did."

"Even if you visited the plant I did, your point is moot because you didn't visit it 25 years ago, when I did."

"Even if you visited the plant I did 25 years ago like I did, your point is moot because you weren't there when I was there."

Etc., _ad nauseum_. Essentially, the only way someone could speak with authority on this is if they were there with you when you smell what you claimed to smell, and agreed with your characterization. Likewise, only someone there with you has authority to address your perceptions -- e.g., what it smelled like -- otherwise you can simply dismiss anything they say. This is not how a civil and rational argument is conducted.

In fact, someone who has visited 20 or more dog food plants, including Purina as well as many of its competitors, speaks with far more authority about the smells that come from such plants, including Reno's, than someone with a gripe who visited one plant 25 years ago.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

stumped said:


> Is everyones choice of dog food Purina Pro Plan?I see that quite often on here



THIS ^^^ is the original post. Dana is our resident lawyer- she uses English correctly so her definition of moot points is well taken. Where the conversation went from the original post was (largely one person's) reaction to the support PPP gets here from people who have raised multiple dogs well on it. 

"don't try to divert attention from the central issue".... the whole PPP is BAD because of corn, or smell, or whatever- it is actually a diversion of the central issue which was what kind of food is 'everyone's choice' ... and since PPP is probably the brand most used on the GRF and certainly is the most recommended one, it would appear the PPP=BAD position is contrary to what people who have owned/trained/shown maybe hundreds -and certainly many tens - of dogs have found. 

I love the bag illustrations on the ancestral grains Farmina fwiw. And I love the bag material too- it's very reusable and that matters to me. It is one of the foods I use when I am in a switch it up spirit and I think for a smallish company it is probably pretty good.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

The number of posts on this forum of the poor YOUNG Goldens dying from cancer, that probably eat Purina Foods, continue to climb, and climb. 



I can't say for sure what these poor souls have been eating; But I am using the same logic as you, since "MOST" people here are feeding PPP.


The issue remains unfortunately..Why is Purina refusing to stop flooding their foods with substandard "not fit for human consumption" CORN? Especially that they admit that it could contain a carcinogenic agent from the by-product produced.


Their "attitude" of just get over it still doesn't fly....so feed what you like as will I!


Since I am apparently the only member here that lives in our valley; I am thankful to the authorities for FORCING companys and individuals to heed air pollution regulation warnings..STENCH included. I have seen one other member here that lives within a 50 mile radius of that plant and are still above the smog line.but am not aware of any others that even live close.


Very interesting that there are very few plants in the west and apparently NONE in the NW (according to their own map) Could it be due to the West having more stringent pollution requirements? The "plant" in Sparks apparently is no more, since I attempted to look them up and it does not show on their map..It is now a Purina distribution service. I wonder why?
It won't be financial, since Nevada is one of the most business friendly states in the union and Sparks is located within 5 miles of Interstate 80..the major freeway between the coasts.



I can only locate one of their plants in California..Hmmmmmmm.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

Prism Goldens said:


> THIS ^^^ is the original post. Dana is our resident lawyer- she uses English correctly so her definition of moot points is well taken. Where the conversation went from the original post was (largely one person's) reaction to the support PPP gets here from people who have raised multiple dogs well on it.
> 
> "don't try to divert attention from the central issue".... the whole PPP is BAD because of corn, or smell, or whatever- it is actually a diversion of the central issue which was what kind of food is 'everyone's choice' ... and since PPP is probably the brand most used on the GRF and certainly is the most recommended one, it would appear the PPP=BAD position is contrary to what people who have owned/trained/shown maybe hundreds -and certainly many tens - of dogs have found.
> 
> I love the bag illustrations on the ancestral grains Farmina fwiw. And I love the bag material too- it's very reusable and that matters to me. It is one of the foods I use when I am in a switch it up spirit and I think for a smallish company it is probably pretty good.



Since this is a public forum and not a courtroom, bound by legalities and semantics;
I choose to follow and use #*2.2 *as my point of reference.
* from Oxford



moot

/mo͞ot/
 Learn to pronounce 
 


_adjective_
adjective: *moot*



1. 
subject to debate, dispute, or uncertainty.
"whether the temperature rise was mainly due to the greenhouse effect was *a moot point*"

h 
Similar:

debatable

open to debate

open to discussion

arguable

questionable

at issue

open to question

open

doubtful

open to doubt

disputable

contestable

controvertible

problematic

problematical

controversial

contentious

vexed

disputed

unresolved

unsettled

up in the air

undecided

yet to be decided

undetermined

unconcluded









2. 
*having little or no practical relevance*, typically because the subject is too uncertain to allow a decision.
"the whole matter is becoming increasingly moot"








_verb_
verb: *moot*; 3rd person present: *moots*; past tense: *mooted*; past participle: *mooted*; gerund or present participle: *mooting*

raise (a question or topic) for discussion; suggest (an idea or possibility).
"Sylvia needed a vacation, and a trip to Ireland had been mooted"


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

My dogs eat PPP, I have lost one at age 6, but have also had two live to 14 1/2. I don't blame the food on losing Tugg so early, just as I don't blame his breeder, the way we took care of him, his vet care. It was the cruel disease hemangiosarcoma that took him. I hope I never lose one so soon again, but sadly, with Goldens, it could happen.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

To add a thought..Not relevant to food; but brought out in light of where this thread has gone:
If I were an attorney with the best interests of the group and forum at heart;
I would be spending more time counseling others about participating in discussions, about other breeders, that could become actionable, and cost alot of money and resources to defend. Winning one is not the question; but defending one is. 

The publicity and possible negative outcome would be financially devastating to anyone, not to mention the time wasted. 



Times have unfortunately changed.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Jeff.... do a little research on the CA business tax levels, real estate / property taxes, might answer your questions about locality. There is so much more that goes into plant locations than air pollution, although they are quite diligent about this. Oil companies hate doing business in CA, this is a very OVER regulated state and not very business friendly.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

jeffscott947 said:


> To add a thought..Not relevant to food; but brought out in light of where this thread has gone:
> If I were an attorney with the best interests of the group and forum at heart;
> I would be spending more time counseling others about participating in discussions, about other breeders, that could become actionable, and cost alot of money and resources to defend. Winning one is not the question; but defending one is.
> 
> ...


But you're not an attorney, so you're out of your lane.

Rest assured everyone following this thread knows precisely how you feel about PPP. There is no ambiguity. You've made your point well. And done it again. At this point, your dead horse is well beat. But it is also well met, for you got me thinking about what you had to say, and perhaps others. So unless you have something new...

I can be counted among those who currently feed PPP to my 8 show Goldens. I've fed other foods, from Diamond products, to raw, to Royal Canin, to Acana, to TOTW, to whatever, I've been through them all. I went back to PPP after it seemed the safest route in context of the current knowledge regarding dilated cardiomyopathy. My dogs do thrive on it. And they are healthy and robust. Years ago there was a brouhaha about corn in dog food, which has since been pretty well debunked. (BTW, the vast majority of corn grown in the U.S. is in the "not for human consumption" category, but is consumed by meat animals for humans, so we are all eating that corn, just secondhand.) And indeed the reaction to that fuss was to create dog foods that caused DCM in many Goldens. So, for now at least, PPP is what works best for us, supplemented with whole meats, fruits, eggs, and vegetables.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

DanaRuns said:


> But you are not an attorney. And you don't have the expertise. Are you a dog food expert? Or are your posts on that subject imbued with the same level of expertise as your legal observations?
> 
> At first I thought your adamance on food was just something you were so passionate about that you come off as overly strident, as often do those who are passionate, obsessed, or fanatical about a thing to the exclusion of all other input. But then you seemed to just start taking gratuitous unrelated potshots at people, so now I'm wondering if there isn't something else going on. The _non sequitur_ crack about breeder discussions is not relevant or helpful to the subject at hand, is it? It was just passive-aggressive. I expected to see the "play nice" moderator post after it.
> 
> ...


Talk about insulting. WOW!
It was NOT I that got this thread off course!
I attempted to drop it, and was met with continuing insults and *MOOT* information, so I returned to give my own side..as you just did.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Jeff remember this is a public forum and while you seem to consider yourself as an expert in food, structure, pot, etc. I don't believe it's a requirement to agree with you. So state your view and move on, everyone has the right to their opinions on the GRF.

Edit: Maybe Jeff didn't understand my post... everyone is entitled to their opinions on the GRF *WITHOUT* having to argue with you. State your opinion & move on, no need to repeat yourself or use bold print or anything else to bring attention to your opinion.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

jeffscott947 said:


> The number of posts on this forum of the poor YOUNG Goldens dying from cancer, that probably eat Purina Foods, continue to climb, and climb.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What I see with this map is like many, many other business maps. There are typically more facilities in Eastern part of the country. That's where the majority of the population is. Since we are talking about a dog food company, I am also seeing manufacturing plants where the resources are. I prefer them having facilities close to their resources. It means they are fresher and they aren't trucking resources across the country.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

I feed PPP. I supplement it by giving my dogs whole raw organic chickens, whole raw eggs, raw or cooked veggies (mostly green beans and broccoli), and fruits (mostly blueberries for their antioxidant properties, and because the dogs all like them), but the base is Purina Pro Plan. Depending on the dog, they either get Sport (young, active dogs) or Focus (everyone retired from sports). They do really well on their food. They are all robust, strong, active, bright-eyed, and healthy. Right now they run from 22 months to 10 years old.

We also feed PPP Bright Minds to our blind, elderly terrier mix, and the difference it has made in his life is astonishing. As my Goldens get into their senior years and start to fade, I'm going to try Bright Minds for them, too. Theresa started feeding that to our terrier (named Dave  ), and I was blown away by how it seems to have taken years off him. So the Goldens will get that, too.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

puddles everywhere said:


> Jeff remember this is a public forum and while you seem to consider yourself as an expert in food, structure, pot, etc. I don't believe it's a requirement to agree with you. So state your view and move on, everyone has the right to their opinions on the GRF.



I was done with all this until I saw ^^^..


I never, ever considered myself an expert ( nor stated that) as other have claimed to be...I simply post my opinions as a long time dog owner with links and quotes to back them up. I also never claimed to be an expert in anything dog related... 



As for a few things that you mentioned..I just happen to be an expert in one of them..MEDICAL MJ, which is quite legal in the state that I live in. I actively consult in large legal grow operations to this day (on my own..not paid), and give free advice to new legal growers across the country:
ie: my gifted Golden Puppy came from a grateful student. 

I draw upon my own personal experiences before stating an opinion. I also happen to be an ex Nevada State Gaming Key employee. That title takes a major background investigation by the state, prior to a license being granted. Ex, only because I happily retired 10+ yrs ago. 

Self Platitudes done!


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

DanaRuns said:


> I feed PPP. I supplement it by giving my dogs whole raw organic chickens, whole raw eggs, raw or cooked veggies (mostly green beans and broccoli), and fruits (mostly blueberries for their antioxidant properties, and because the dogs all like them), but the base is Purina Pro Plan. Depending on the dog, they either get Sport (young, active dogs) or Focus (everyone retired from sports). They do really well on their food. They are all robust, strong, active, bright-eyed, and healthy. Right now they run from 22 months to 10 years old.
> 
> We also feed PPP Bright Minds to our blind, elderly terrier mix, and the difference it has made in his life is astonishing. As my Goldens get into their senior years and start to fade, I'm going to try Bright Minds for them, too. Theresa started feeding that to our terrier (named Dave  ), and I was blown away by how it seems to have taken years off him. So the Goldens will get that, too.


I love Bright Minds- when I put Edward on it, he lost probably 3 years (and he was by no means an 'old' 11 YO- but now he acts like he's 5-6YO). Molly Bloom is also on it. It's been astonishing to watch them grow younger. She may have been a typical 10YO- but now appears about 8. For an older dog, and in Goldens that is over 7, I think Bright Minds is great.


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

DanaRuns said:


> I supplement it by giving my dogs whole raw organic chickens....



I just want one of those new Popeye's fried chicken sandwiches but I think I have better odds of winning the lottery.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

GoldenDude said:


> I just want one of those new Popeye's fried chicken sandwiches but I think I have better odds of winning the lottery.


I know, right?


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

So this thread has been beneficial! I’m going to try Duke on the PPP Bright Minds. He’s been having a rough year, maybe it can help him age a little slower.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

DanaRuns said:


> But you're not an attorney, so you're out of your lane.
> 
> Rest assured everyone following this thread knows precisely how you feel about PPP. There is no ambiguity. You've made your point well. And done it again. At this point, your dead horse is well beat. But it is also well met, for you got me thinking about what you had to say, and perhaps others. So unless you have something new...
> 
> I can be counted among those who currently feed PPP to my 8 show Goldens. I've fed other foods, from Diamond products, to raw, to Royal Canin, to Acana, to TOTW, to whatever, I've been through them all. I went back to PPP after it seemed the safest route in context of the current knowledge regarding dilated cardiomyopathy. My dogs do thrive on it. And they are healthy and robust. Years ago there was a brouhaha about corn in dog food, which has since been pretty well debunked. (BTW, the vast majority of corn grown in the U.S. is in the "not for human consumption" category, but is consumed by meat animals for humans, so we are all eating that corn, just secondhand.) And indeed the reaction to that fuss was to create dog foods that caused DCM in many Goldens. So, for now at least, PPP is what works best for us, supplemented with whole meats, fruits, eggs, and vegetables.



You can actually trace back the whole corn thing to Nutro back in the late 80's or early 90's when they came out with their Natural Choice line which was the Lamb and brown rice. They BEAT EVERYONE over the head that corn isn't digestible, it's bad, allergies the whole gamut. If corn isn't digestible why don't we see it in the stools? The outer part of the corn, the kernel is cellulose, not digestible, but virtually ALL the corn INSIDE the kernel is digestible and usable. This is why they ground the corn into a powder to add to the food. Once ground everything is exposed that is digestible and therefore is used. People don't really get the full explanation and just go by a dentists word on such matters.


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

Prism Goldens said:


> I love Bright Minds- when I put Edward on it, he lost probably 3 years (and he was by no means an 'old' 11 YO- but now he acts like he's 5-6YO). Molly Bloom is also on it. It's been astonishing to watch them grow younger. She may have been a typical 10YO- but now appears about 8. For an older dog, and in Goldens that is over 7, I think Bright Minds is great.


My old guy was on Bright Minds probably the last 4 or 5 years of his life. Aside from a little arthritis, a little deafness, and a little loss of sight, the day he died at 14 1/2 years old in June he truthfully was as bright as he ever was during his lifetime. It worked for him.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> You can actually trace back the whole corn thing to Nutro back in the late 80's or early 90's when they came out with their Natural Choice line which was the Lamb and brown rice. They BEAT EVERYONE over the head that corn isn't digestible, it's bad, allergies the whole gamut. If corn isn't digestible why don't we see it in the stools? The outer part of the corn, the kernel is cellulose, not digestible, but virtually ALL the corn INSIDE the kernel is digestible and usable. This is why they ground the corn into a powder to add to the food. Once ground everything is exposed that is digestible and therefore is used. People don't really get the full explanation and just go by a dentists word on such matters.


Which has absolutely nothing to do with why Purina still puts corn, with possible carcinogens, (self admitted) in their products and then implies dog owners should just get over it. Sounds just a bit disingenuous.


I would take the word of the dentist (AND HIS FREELY GIVEN RESEARCH) over that of a company like Purina, with a financial axe to grind.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

jeffscott947 said:


> Which has absolutely nothing to do with why Purina still puts corn, with possible carcinogens, (self admitted) in their products and then implies dog owners should just get over it. Sounds just a bit disingenuous.
> 
> 
> I would take the word of the dentist (AND HIS FREELY GIVEN RESEARCH) over that of a company like Purina, with a financial axe to grind.



I didn't say anything about Purina. Dude, give it a rest man.


You do realize it behooves companies like Purina or any that make dog food to do what's best and keep your dog ALIVE as they need them to live a long life to eat their food. you make it sounds like they are trying to kills dogs on purpose lol I can't track your logic at all.


I'm starting to wonder if you work for Nutro lol


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> I didn't say anything about Purina. Dude, give it a rest man.
> 
> 
> You do realize it behooves companies like Purina or any that make dog food to do what's best and keep your dog ALIVE as they need them to live a long life to eat their food. you make it sounds like they are trying to kills dogs on purpose lol I can't track your logic at all.
> ...



No one said Purina was trying to kill dogs on purpose; just that they value today's profit over a pet's well being.The logic is simple. A company like Purina has no interest in a pet's health..just in their profits. Reformulating a few of their products would cost too much..in the short run. I wonder why Avoderm (never tried their food) took the lead in eliminating a possible carcinogen, even though the link had not been proven as yet.* Kudos to Avoderm for being proactive.
*


I fed Nutro when it was owned by Nutro and not since they sold off the brand to MARS. Different entity..same lack of principals. You already know my employment status..HAPPILY RETIRED. 

Attempts at snide remarks don't enhance your position...I know.....You were just being sarcastic...LOL


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

LOL is right- seriously, are you pranking us?


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

Prism Goldens said:


> LOL is right- seriously, are you pranking us?


 NO..I am not a troll, as some have previously tried to imply. It seems that anyone that won't go with the flow is subject to insults and insinuation by some people here. Many new people have left the forum because of that, but still communicate with some members to try and get an honest answer to their questions (via email exchanges and not PMs). 

I simply offer a different point of view, and rebuttals, (ON FOODS, TRAINING etc.) from those of the Purina people on the forum. Lurkers need to see other viewpoints before deciding on pet foods, professional trainers and the like. That way folks get to make their own decisions. 

The dentist that everyone here knocks, provides a very valuable service public FREE service, even if you don't like or accept his research. If you join his email list..you get instant notifications of all Pet related recalls as soon as they are made public..Way before any pet food company is ready to spill the beans. That seems to go unmentioned as the bashing continues.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

To be clear. I don't feed Purina. I just understand the ingredients and why they are used. Your information is from a dentist and companies that market against what Purina uses. I do say that soy and wheat aren't what dogs should eat and I've explained why in the past. The fact you're so against corn you should be feeding grain free and the fact you aren't paints you as a hypocrite. There reason your again corn, the mold, can and is found in most every other grain used in dog food. This is why you have no credibility.

I feed Nature's Variety be natural line by the way. So I'm not sounding off about a food I feed and feel the need to defend it. 

Also I get every pet food recall on food and treats the instant they go out from the FDA. All you have to do is sign up for email notifications. Still no reason to listen to a dentist food dog food advise. And as far as recalls and the food companies go. The FDA forced them. They say voluntary recall... The FDA allows them to use that term to save some face. The food companies can't hold it back and must put the recall info out there when the FDA tells them to.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> To be clear. I don't feed Purina. I just understand the ingredients and why they are used. Your information is from a dentist and companies that market against what Purina uses. I do say that soy and wheat aren't what dogs should eat and I've explained why in the past. The fact you're so against corn you should be feeding grain free and the fact you aren't paints you as a hypocrite. There reason your again corn, the mold, can and is found in most every other grain used in dog food. This is why you have no credibility.
> 
> I feed Nature's Variety be natural line by the way. So I'm not sounding off about a food I feed and feel the need to defend it.
> 
> Also I get every pet food recall on food and treats the instant they go out from the FDA. All you have to do is sign up for email notifications. Still no reason to listen to a dentist food dog food advise. And as far as recalls and the food companies go. The FDA forced them. They say voluntary recall... The FDA allows them to use that term to save some face. The food companies can't hold it back and must put the recall info out there when the FDA tells them to.



I actually just googled what I *think *is your food of choice and find no mention of Corn in their ingredients. ..Admittedly I may have pulled up the wrong products. The ones I looked at appear to be a very high quality food..judging by their contents alone (NO I am NOT the dentist either).


As far as my expertise in LEGAL Cannabis..Does this look like a prank?


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

We have members that come to the forum to ask questions, want advice or are looking for information. 

There are members from all over the US, Canada, Europe and other countries. There's a wide variety of personalities, because of this we are going to have different viewpoints and opinions. Not everyone is going to agree or like a person's viewpoints or opinions, but everyone has a right to them. 

The back and forth between members is not only distracting but very unpleasant and certainly not helpful to anyone, it may lead to threads being closed.. 

The Forum asks all members to treat each other with respect........


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

Never said my food had corn in it. I free a different style of food. The point I made that you missed was that I'm not defending a food I feed. I trying to educate you plus not let you spread your hate for corn with misconceptions. You make sounds like all corn is a carcinogen and that food companies still user it knowing such. This is totally untrue. There has been testing for aflatoxin way since before 2005 and the info today been spouting isn't true. And the fact that all grain can have it and yet you feed a grain inclusive food showed your just trying to tailor information to fit your argument/agenda.


I'm really quite bored and tired of this at this point. There is enough posts out there people can take what they want from it. Do and say what you want, don't really think many care at this point.

Peace and happy retirement


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> Never said my food had corn in it. I free a different style of food. The point I made that you missed was that I'm not defending a food I feed. I trying to educate you plus not let you spread your hate for corn with misconceptions. You make sounds like all corn is a carcinogen and that food companies still user it knowing such. This is totally untrue. There has been testing for aflatoxin way since before 2005 and the info today been spouting isn't true. And the fact that all grain can have it and yet you feed a grain inclusive food showed your just trying to tailor information to fit your argument/agenda.
> 
> 
> I'm really quite bored and tired of this at this point. There is enough posts out there people can take what they want from it. Do and say what you want, don't really think many care at this point.
> ...



That's one thing that we agree on..Everyone gets to make his/her own choice. It was not I that attempted to insert things into other people's mouths or infer that they are disingenuous, or trolls.


I was well over this thread until intentionally provoked into answering; so I did so.


One thing that was never questioned is that you would do anything but _*good *_for your pets.
Peace and contentment to you as well, and the best to your dog(s):smile2:


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

never mind .


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

Aaaaaand haha


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## rockcp21 (Dec 29, 2011)

Wow! I actually did see Charlton Heston in Soylent Green! 
After having 4 beautiful Golden's from 1985 thru 2013 all die from cancers, all eating kibble, all receiving vaccines, drinking tap water, used flea/tick products. I'm now feeding my 2 current dogs a raw diet, filtered water, doing blood titers with minimal vaccines & minimal flea/tick treatments, in hopes that they may live a healthier & longer life. I know genetic genes & ancestors play a huge role in the cancer problem. I'm sure the food is a big factor here.....


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## drew510 (Sep 12, 2017)

jeffscott947 said:


> A company like Purina has no interest in a pet's health..just in their profits.


Right, because causing their customers' deaths would be good for them? Yeah, that makes sense.



jeffscott947 said:


> The dentist that everyone here knocks, provides a very valuable service public FREE service...


You get what you pay for.

BTW, what does marijuana have to do with anything in this thread?


To answer the OP's question...as do many others, I also feed my pup PPP and she is doing fantastic on it.

And on a personal note, I LOVE corn. My wife - not so much. Slather it in butter (or mayo), some salt, pepper, Mexican spices - YUMMY!


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## Remy (Feb 7, 2019)

stumped said:


> Is everyones choice of dog food Purina Pro Plan?I see that quite often on here


To the OP,
I have 3 goldens, I feed all of them PPP and have since I got my second dog in March. My 2 1/2 year old gets either Sensitive Skin and Stomach or Savor Lamb and Rice. She was on Fromm Grain Free and TOTW bofore March. She has seasonal allergies in the spring time and she pulls at and out her tail hair/feathers. She is under a vets care. It is not food related.

My two puppies, 6 & 9 months, get PPP Large breed puppy. I use the Lamb and Rice as training treats and they love it. 

Before I knew anything about NM-DCM, I fed my GSD Kirkland, Red label for the canned and red bag for the dry, I don't remember the name but it was grain free. He died from DCM in January of 2016. I fed Kirkland because I foolishly trusted what I read on dog food advisor which gave it very high marks. 

No one knows the correlation of DCM and grain free yet, but I won't risk it. There are a lot of people who claim that the FDA is giving out poor information bc it's "only" a few hundred dogs that have been reported.... My dog was not reported, it was before any of this came to light. Also..... how many people have died from vaping... a handful, so with that same logic, the FDA should not have issued any warnings about vaping! 

Good luck with your pup, like I said, all 3 of mine get PPP now (I was a dogfood snob once) they are all healthy happy and their coats are beautiful and so are their ears!


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## Schrader (May 1, 2019)

I’ve been feeding SportDogFood with good results. SportDogFood.com
I’m using whitefish in the Elite series.


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