# Waitlist check in



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I assume you are waiting on the litter that the little sticker is doing advertising for on some of your other posts... have you considered the pedigree? Here is the dam's k9data page-http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=1005305 much of it is unknown. This breeder states on their site that they only breed w all 4 core clearances, but the reality is this-https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1997150 inadequate cardiac, eyes done for first time a year ago (and out of date this week), came out of sire and dam with zero clearances for anything... I dk who she uses for stud dog- the puppy she has she says she bought for her stud when he's old enough but that attitude is a very detrimental to the breed attitude. Stud dogs are easy to find- the BEST stud dog is available to ethical breeders (who is he? he is a different dog for every bitch but that's the point...)
THIS is the dog she calls 'stud dog' on her site- https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1979347 and his pedigree/OFA record https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1979347 not stellar and certainly not an attempt to bring down a COI.. two dogs who have little in common except their lack of merit pedigree-wise. 
Anyway- you have posted so many times that little advertising sticker and the mods probably haven't noticed it has a breeder name on it. It may be a blessing you are number 12 or whatever on this litter because it does not look like a super safe breeding.


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## Miranda Gallegos (Aug 18, 2019)

When I asked about the k9 data at midnight last night they said they would start filling it out. So what you’re looking at is brand new information posted and likely isn’t complete. I understand that the Creed people have some questionable ethics as I’ve found they’ve been breeding dams less than 2 years without clearances. But Tucker has all his clearances and so does Harley so what is there to be worried about?


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

With all my years in Goldens- many decades actually- I would find it worrisome. Pedigree: Miss Harley Quinn if you look @ the page I began for her (the info is not complete because I would have to order her pedigree on AKC to finish it up- since grandparents aren't trackable on OFA due to no clearances- sometimes we can build a k9data page going back and forth from OFA but not in this case...in other words, if it were findable, I could find it) you will notice she has a heart clearance that is essentially useless, especially so when you add in that neither of her parents had the first clearance on anything at all. Goldens have cardiac issues. ONLY A CARDIOLOGIST clearance is adequate for a Golden. 
That's just one piece of it. 
Harley- https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1979347 eyes out of date, inadequate cardiac clearance. His pedigree is full of dogs without sufficient clearances to breed on. 
I know you're excited but think there is plenty there to worry about. Perhaps others will chime in. The research and transparency is so very important when choosing a dog to spend your life with.


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## Miranda Gallegos (Aug 18, 2019)

What about Golden Rule Retrievers? They’re my back up.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

For educational purposes- cardiac clearances:Goldens- you want a clearance that either starts with ACA- *or* ends with C-VPI or C-PI or C-NOPI.. not one that ends with P-VPI, P-PI, etc. That "P" means practitioner (and the PI part has to do with the identification of the dog). Frankly, unless that practitioner did a residency in cardiology (which we know s/he did *not* or s/he'd have gotten boarded shortly after) that clearance is absolutely worthless. It's only marginally better than an experienced lay person listening (and I mean no slight to the practitioner in saying that- none whatever. It's just what it is worth wise in a Golden). Why does OFA take P clearances? Because there are many breeds who do not require a cardiologist. OFA is going to ACA clearances and those require a cardiologist. But for a GOLDEN RETRIEVER, a P clearance has *never* been in line with the Code of Ethics. 
Cardiac issues are not issues that are rare in Goldens. They are fairly common. I have no basis for my guess that cardiac issues are more common than hip issues other than 'what I hear of' but I hear of an awful lot.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Miranda Gallegos said:


> What about Golden Rule Retrievers? They’re my back up.


post sire and dam info (reg name or number) and someone will screen it for you!
or maybe someone has time to go to their site and find upcoming litters and screen those. I gotta go get my elder's feet tended to....


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## Miranda Gallegos (Aug 18, 2019)

Thank you for your input. I will ask my breeder about it.


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## Miranda Gallegos (Aug 18, 2019)

They’ve been nothing but transparent the entire time and have removed their own dogs from being potential sires due to heart problems or conformational issues and had them neutered. This dam and sire pair have one litter together already.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

I'm with prism on this one. I looked at all the pictures and maybe I'm a snob but when I purchased a golden puppy I wanted it to look like this (pic below). Any breeder that doesn't know what the breed standard is shouldn't be putting out puppies. These people do nothing with their dogs, they don't compete in any venue to verify their dogs are worth breeding. They just produce puppies. They have no idea about structure so must assume they know nothing about breeding a biddable (trainable) dog with good temperament. I have kids, grand kids and great grand kids.. LOL and cats. I also have special needs grand kids and want to know the pup I buy can go anywhere, be around anything or anybody and not panic or become frightened or nervous.

This is what I think a golden should look like.


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## Miranda Gallegos (Aug 18, 2019)

I want it to look like that too.


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## Miranda Gallegos (Aug 18, 2019)

And I retract my statement about Golden Rule Golden’s being my back up. I totally missed the part where they don’t do OFA at all. Big no thank you!


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

You won't get it from the place you are looking.


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## Miranda Gallegos (Aug 18, 2019)

I sent in an application to Scion Golden’s. But their website hasn’t been updated since 2012 and they don’t have a Facebook page. If anyone has any recommendations in Texas please let me know. Yes I’ve looked at the Texas breeders thread.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Well...

Hm...

No way in hell I'd ever consider a puppy from this litter. But...

Most puppy buyers aren't me. Or Puddles. Or Prism. We insist on the highest standards. But I'm coming to my regular (controversial) rant, here.

[rant]

Fact: There aren't enough well-bred puppies for all the puppy buyers. When all those well-bred puppies are gone, where do the remaining puppy buyers go? After all, this is a zero sum game. There simply aren't enough puppies for puppy buyers. So, when the music stops and they don't have a puppy, where can they go to get one? They can go to puppy mills, back yard breeders, pet stores...where else? Hm. 

So, I suggest that "second tier" breeders be an option that we shouldn't chase people away from.

[/rant]

To my mind, 2nd tier breeders are those who do the 4 core clearances but little/nothing else. And while I'd like to see generations of clearances behind a litter, this breeder at least does the 4 (except for the practitioner on the cardiac clearance, which, though inadequate under the GRCA CoE, does have some value to my thinking). I'd say this breeder is on the borderline low end of 2nd tier.

Puppies from such parings often lack in type, litters lack consistency, and puppies are wildly unpredictable in structure, temperament, and suitability for original purpose. But lots of buyers wouldn't care about those things even if you educated them on these issues, and for them a 2nd tier breeder is perhaps something they should be willing to consider.

Here, you've told the OP our very valid concerns, and she doesn't seem to care. There will be a puppy available for her, and she has made up her mind. And since this breeder appears to be a (very low end) 2nd tier breeder, perhaps after voicing concerns we shouldn't discourage her too much. She has been educated and is making an informed decision. The parents have the four core clearances (though with practitioner on cardiac). Not everyone is going to get a well-bred puppy. So, for those who don't care about that, but are making an informed decision, and the breeder at least tries to do better than the generations previous...hm...I say wish them well. :shrug: Hard to say here, because this breeder is just clinging to the bottom edge of the 2nd tier, but still...

My humble (and controversial) opinion. Your mileage may vary.

Good luck with your puppy search, Miranda. I hope you get a wonderful companion.


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Miranda Gallegos said:


> I want it to look like that too.


Unfortunately I do not see any of the dogs that they own producing dogs with that look. Highly unlikely you'll end up with a conformation bred 'look' with that pairing. Their dogs look more fine boned, with shorter/thinner coats, and narrow-ish heads. I agree with Puddles that they do not seem to breed with structure in mind...which is so so important. if you want your golden to be able to run and play and hike and swim like a golden should, structure has to be there. 

That being said, I do agree with Dana about the whole 2nd tier breeder thing. You're pretty far down the waitlist at #13, so if I were you I would try to find a better breeder. If the dam doesn't end up coming into heat soon you're going to have a several month wait, and if the Dam has (let's conservatively say) 8 puppies and people before you on the list all can commit to a pup, you'll be waiting even longer for the next litter. 

Reach out to your local Golden Retriever Club for breeder referrals:

GHGRC Home

Austin Golden Retriever Club

Dallas Fort Worth Metro Golden Retriever Club


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## Miranda Gallegos (Aug 18, 2019)

Thanks so much for the recommendation! I am not being stubborn and if I were I wouldn’t have put in an application to Scion. Yes I am personally satisfied with the health clearances of both parents. No I am not and have not been satisfied with their type or color. I don’t like Tucker’s head but he meets the breed standard which is what they say. So I’m definitely open in finding different breeders because I don’t want to wait an entire year and for the reasons listed.


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

Here is the link to GRCA's Code of Ethics for Breeders. I personally would want a breeder who completely follows or exceeds these guidelines with no excuses. A breeder may have their reasons for not complying, but I would hold out for compliance.

https://www.grca.org/about-grca/grca-code-of-ethics/

II. The following reports are acceptable for dogs residing in the U.S.:
Hips – a report from the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) or PennHIP at 24 months of age or older. Since PennHIP results are not automatically published, these results should be recorded in an approved online database as described above.
Elbows – a report from the OFA at 24 months of age or older.
Hearts – a report from a Diplomat of the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine (Cardiology), at 12 months of age or older. Report should be recorded in an approved online database as described above.
Eyes – a report from a Diplomat of the American College of Veterinary Ophthalmology. Examinations should be done within 12 months prior to a breeding, and results should be recorded in an approved online database as described above.
Dogs that produce offspring should continue to have ophthalmology examinations on a yearly basis for their lifetime, and if the findings permit recertification, the results should continue to be recorded in an approved online database.


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## Miranda Gallegos (Aug 18, 2019)

GHGRC - I found their list of breeders and if they had websites I looked around on them and submitted an application. If they didn’t have a website I sent them an email inquiring. Thanks so much guys!


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Miranda, are you somehow connected to Texas TLC Goldens? Not sure what's up w/ the advertisement in your profile pic and signature block. I can understand excitement about a puppy, but this just downright appears to be blatant advertising for a less than stellar breeder. Are they giving you a discount or promises to bump you up the list if you advertise for them? I'm sure they're nice people who have a convincing sales pitch, but they're not doing the pups they're producing or the families who purchase those pups any favors by slacking on the bare minimum health testing. Even w/ k9data in the process of being updated, the pedigrees should be easy to fill in if in fact there were generations of verifiable clearances behind they gods they're breeding available on ofa.org.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

If you are in the Austin area, you should try Amica as well. There are actually several amazing breeders in Texas from Dallas to Houston to Austin. I don't personally know any in San Antonio, but I'm sure they exist. Most of them know and talk to each other regularly and several breed litters together, so if you apply to more than one and end up on an official wait list for both (or more) be sure to be upfront about it and don't back out at the last minute.


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## Miranda Gallegos (Aug 18, 2019)

I don’t know why my signature is bothering people. The only message I received from the mods had to do with my affiliation with my own farm. No they are not paying me or giving me any perks or bumping me on the list. They absolutely do not do that. I did it because I was proud to be on their waitlist and excited to get a puppy from them. 

And yes I reached out to amica as well.


Went ahead and deleted my signature and profile pic.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

You aren't allowed to post anything that may advertise puppies for sale.
I had my own personal website linked in my signature, that they removed because it linked to my DOG website, which sometimes linked litters sired by my dogs. I don't even own females and never have puppies to sell myself. It was like six degrees from a puppy and they yanked it.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Miranda Gallegos said:


> Thanks so much for the recommendation! I am not being stubborn and if I were I wouldn’t have put in an application to Scion. Yes I am personally satisfied with the health clearances of both parents. No I am not and have not been satisfied with their type or color. I don’t like Tucker’s head but he meets the breed standard which is what they say. So I’m definitely open in finding different breeders because I don’t want to wait an entire year and for the reasons listed.


Meets the breed standard- 
this dog does not have any points, or a CCA- so who knows if he 'meets the breed standard'. I'm reasonably sure his owners and these breeders have no idea what the breed standard says. They may just be picking @ one point- like, height for instance. 
The Breed Standard is a document that has real meaning, every single word in it. 
It's not a blanket 'looks like a Golden' document. The Standard's not something dogs fit or don't because even the very most stellar stud dog has _something_ that's not exactly per Standard. You pick your poison... but I do not think these people have enough experience to be able to evaluate either one of these animals. I can look @ Tucker and see 10 things off the top that would make him a pet. Certainly not a stud dog. 
I'm sorry I seem to be picking on you, I really am not- I'm picking at what the breeder is telling you. 
Everything you've repeated has had inaccuracies to the statement. It's tiring. I hope you enjoy whatever puppy you get, and I hope you have no problems with that puppy's health. I also hope these people fix the lacks in their breedings in the future.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

There seems to be some misunderstanding or confusion about the Rules, Rule #4 and the update to Rule #4 in particular. 

I am not going to side track this thread discussing a rule. 

Here are the links for both, read through the information and if you have any question regarding a Rule, contact a member of the Mod Team for clarification via a PM. 

https://www.goldenretrieverforum.co...6-grf-board-rules-registration-agreement.html

Update to Rule #4-

https://www.goldenretrieverforum.co...ate-clarification-pup-sales-availability.html


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## Kiera Girl (Jul 5, 2019)

I'm on a wait list for a Fall litter and I'm pretty obsessed. I'm reading new golden retriever training books, and have devoured all the info on this site, from best dog toys to most popular dog beds! I have to say, this forum is how I learned a ton of information about the breed standards, health clearances, and even how to choose a reputable breeder. I actually crossed two local breeders off my list based on reviews and also due to the breeder not having proper clearances and other issues. These people on here know what they're talking about so I would heed their advice. Also, I researched breeders from other states to give me more flexibility in getting our new puppy. I didn't want to wait another year as I had already been searching for over 6 months. Some of the good breeders how long wait lists and rightfully so.


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## Miranda Gallegos (Aug 18, 2019)

You sound like me in the obsession and research department! I considered out of state breeders but I reeeeally value having someone local, I want to participate in the meet ups and reunions. Not only am I purchasing my personal best friend but I’m also buying the breeders as new friends too and I want to foster those relationships. I made a list of some products that I think are good (shamelessly using Tucker Budzyn’s Amazon!”


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## Miranda Gallegos (Aug 18, 2019)

My pictures won’t post so here is a copy paste of my list 

Golden Retriever Puppy Shopping List

Dr. Muller Pet Solutions EFA shampoo
Spa Tropiclean conditioner (nourish)
Bravecto
Heartgard
Purina Pro Plan Focus for puppy
Purina Pro Plan Savor for adults
Flying Pig dog dryer
Furminator
Roomba i7 ✅
Shed Monster
Exercise pen ✅
Crate


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## Kiera Girl (Jul 5, 2019)

Great list.. I'll take a look! I'm still trying to figure out new dog beds. This might be expensive but was highly recommended. https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/66388?page=premium-dog-couch&bc=31-134-507408&feat=507408-GN3&csp=f The LL Bean premium dog couch. 

I understand being close to a breeder. I live in NJ so neighboring states are pretty close!!!


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## Miranda Gallegos (Aug 18, 2019)

That’s a really neat couch! I saw at bed bath and beyond they had this cooling mat for dogs. And of course the dog in the picture was a golden. I’ve also heard that large dogs sleeping on hard surfaces can increase their risk of dysplasia problems although I’m not sure how accurate that is or where I heard it. It makes sense on the surface. What I’ve seen plenty of is dogs choosing to lay on the cool floor instead of their nice plush bed. ?


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## Kiera Girl (Jul 5, 2019)

I guess it is probably hotter in Texas than Jersey. My dogs all love their plush beds throughout the house. They won't sleep on anything hard! In summer, my house is really cold... they even love blankets!


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## Miranda Gallegos (Aug 18, 2019)

Just checked my breeders waitlist and I moved down a spot! Now I’m #12. 8 people want female and 4 people want male including me. Yay! I needed this little bit of pawsitivity today.


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## Oldreid (Aug 16, 2019)

If your house is very cold in summer, then your dog loves the blanket to keep warm, isn't it right?


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

My house is pretty cold in the summers and my Golden puppy loves to lay over the A/C Vents..her favorite times in the puppy pool are early mornings and at dusk as the outside temps get cooler. (I am wearing a fleece hoodie) 



I took her crate pad out for the summer so she can lay on the cooler plastic. She is happy with the arrangements. She will leave my bed at night to lie on the A/C vent and she loves sleeping on the people bed. I have a very hairy Aussie that is the opposite..he loves the heat and crawls under the covers..go figure..


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## evotaw (Aug 18, 2019)

What part of Texas do you live in?


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## evotaw (Aug 18, 2019)

We live in Texas in the Houston area and just bought a beautiful English Cream. He is amazingly perfect and the most adorable happy puppy that we have ever owned.


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## Grom&Gidget13 (Nov 9, 2018)

Kiera Girl said:


> Great list.. I'll take a look! I'm still trying to figure out new dog beds. This might be expensive but was highly recommended. https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/66388?page=premium-dog-couch&bc=31-134-507408&feat=507408-GN3&csp=f The LL Bean premium dog couch.
> 
> I understand being close to a breeder. I live in NJ so neighboring states are pretty close!!!


Im in NJ, too! Hi:wave:

I've been waiting FOREVER! Our litter should be born any day now and I just truly, truly hope it all goes well, they all survive and everyone is healthy. Honestly, I was hoping for a boy but we'll take either. I fully trust my breeder and her lines. I've bought a bunch of stuff and have quite the list still to work on. Technically we're more than set. I have 10 books I've read through, contacted two training centers, bought crates, toys, treats, bitter apple, stain remover, refenced parts of the yard, stopped treating the lawn a year ago, educated the kids, cleaned out toys and removed choking hazards, bought more baby gates/x-pen thing, researched and decided on insurance and interviewed a new vet. I don't know what number I am on the list but I think pretty high up since I opted out of the last litter for gender preference.

The wait is killing me though lol.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

I don't really get waitlists.

We have people waiting for a puppy from us, but we don't assign them a number or an order, or commit anything to them. We want to place puppies with the best homes for each puppy. So, while we have folks waiting for a pup, we don't make any decisions until the litter is on the ground, we gauge their temperament, see how many of each sex we have, etc.

For instance, if someone wants a male, how can you assign them as having #5 on the wait list before you know if you'll have any males, at all? Or how can you put an older couple who want a calm dog as #8 on your list before knowing if there will be any puppies suited to that lifestyle? And the whole notion of assigning numbers seems to indicate that you just get whatever pup is remaining at that number. We don't do that, we match people and puppies to each other the best we can. The only thing I can think of is that those breeders just want to sell puppies first come, first serve, without regard to matching pups with peeps. Like one puppy is the same as another. And, to me, that's doing a disservice to both puppies and buyers.

Or am I missing something?


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I suspect people who sell puppies in the 'waitlist' way probably do not give much thought to matching,etc. 
Personally I will take 3 girl and 3 boy deposits when I have a litter coming. Then take names if people want but it amounts to whose application has appealed to me most, not when they wrote it. 
The whole #5 on the waitlist idea is just dumb to me but I too might be missing something.


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## Miranda Gallegos (Aug 18, 2019)

My post has taken many turns and from now on I’d like for it to stay about people that are on waitlists which was the original intent of the post. Perhaps if waitlists are worth debating, a breeder that disagrees can make their own post about it. Not trying to be disrespectful or rude as I value your input. Thank you!


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## Grom&Gidget13 (Nov 9, 2018)

I kind of assumed waitlists were like a general no deposit checks mailed until pups on the ground type grouping. That's our situation anyway-if it isn't right you wait it out for the right pup even if that means waiting until the next breeding or even the next after that or move on. There's the prelim app and conversations and informal interviews then wait wait wait and if and when pups are born then deposits then temperment testing and then the breeder decides. I have been on a puppy list (which is what the breeder calls it not a 'waitlist') for a long time and this will be the third litter I'm hoping to get a baby from. Hoping. No guarantee. I've also never gotten a number but my breeder knows our lifestyle and what a match for us would be. So puppy list or wait list, whatever you want to call it, I'm currently without a puppy but praying and prepping and wishing and hoping.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Miranda Gallegos said:


> My post has taken many turns and from now on I’d like for it to stay about people that are on waitlists which was the original intent of the post. Perhaps if waitlists are worth debating, a breeder that disagrees can make their own post about it. Not trying to be disrespectful or rude as I value your input. Thank you!


LOL! Good luck with that. I'll respect your wishes and not post in your thread anymore, but this is the internet, you know. Thread drift is a thing. You have to expect any and all comments. And sometimes, that ends up with some wonderful discussions. But hey, if you're telling me to get out of your thread, okay. Bye!


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I will stay out as well- but fyi- I have now filled in all the DOBs and AKC#'s and any (few) clearances behind 5 gen of this pedigree. If it's not on k9data, it's not... I didn't do this for the OP in particular I do this for the historical record.... downline it may make a difference to her, too.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Thank you Robin, that's a great deal of work for someone that clearly does not see the value in the information. I do have to wonder sometimes why people come to the forum for advice when they have already made their decisions. Looking for validation? If you have a budget clearly get that but why not say this is what I'm limited to so people can help them find the best they can within those parameters. I hope she enjoys her new puppy but clearly they are over priced for what she is getting. I'm out too.


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## Miranda Gallegos (Aug 18, 2019)

puddles everywhere said:


> Thank you Robin, that's a great deal of work for someone that clearly does not see the value in the information. I do have to wonder sometimes why people come to the forum for advice when they have already made their decisions. Looking for validation? If you have a budget clearly get that but why not say this is what I'm limited to so people can help them find the best they can within those parameters. I hope she enjoys her new puppy but clearly they are over priced for what she is getting. I'm out too.



I do not appreciate the passive aggressive tone you’re making towards me. I have been more than grateful and appreciative towards the unsolicited advice I’ve received, to include hijacking my post in the process. I did not ask for advice here. Rather, it was thrown at me. Trust me I know that even if my breeder did 99% correct people would still criticize the 1% and find absolute fault with them and encourage me to look elsewhere. I emailed every single breeder on GHGRC. I’m sorry my response has not been what you’ve hoped for it to be. But I’ve been more than polite here. So please stop coming after me like this.


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