# Any vets here? Radiograph attached. I have questions



## BrennaB (Dec 15, 2017)

Hi. This is my first post here. Thank you for allowing me to join your community. 
I am trying to come to terms with our decision to euthanize our Golden Tuesday. He was only four and his cancer dx came as a huge shock to us. 
On Monday he was his usual self. Ate all his food as usual and even begged for our food. He played, ran, no problems whatsoever. 
Tuesday we woke up and when we went to let him out, he just laid on the floor and didn’t want to get up. After much encouragement he got up and went outside to pee but his back legs were wobbly and weak. We knew something was wrong so we immediately took him to our local vet. His blood work showed anemia and they referred us to a more specialized clinic to get an ultrasound and treatment accordingly. Less than 30 minutes after arriving there they came in with his radiograph X-rays and said our energetic (just the day before) and young (only four) had a tumor and also cancer in his lungs after she highly suggested euthanasia we took that route and have been so upset. he was a huge part of our family and this has been a huge blow. I have do e much readi g si. e about people whose goldens had lung cancer and still lived up to a year or more with medications. I am left wondering if we jumped the gun on tne decision. he didnt want to walk but i wonder if steroid therapy would have helped that. Obviously i am not a vet or a doctor and i do t know how to read these tni gs. Can anyone tell me how advanced the cancer looks in these radiographs?
Thank you so much in advance. i have been a blabbering snotty mess since Tuesday night.


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## BrennaB (Dec 15, 2017)

I would also like to add his photo. He was such a beautiful boy.


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## SKT (Oct 7, 2017)

I'm so sorry to hear about your golden Tuesday. I'm not a vet, I'm another golden parent that had the same shock as you with a cancer diagnosis at the beginning of October. I wish I could offer some words to help you through this awful time. Hopefully someone can answer your questions. Your boy was beautiful, It hurts a lot I know


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I wish I knew how to mark up a photo to outline the tumors for you. Steroids wouldn't have made them go away... I am not a vet either but I can see multiple sites. Maybe SIANDVM will see this post and reassure you. I'm so so sorry. It's hard to have a vital and young and in the now dog one minute and the next find you have to decide to let him go. Please don't second guess the decision- you did the best you could for your dog. Please put his info on k9data.com so he can be a part of breed history.


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

I am so sorry. There are way to many young Goldens dying of cancer. It's sad and terrifying. You made the hard but loving choice to spare your boy any more pain. Try to be at peace about the choice. He was a gorgeous boy and lived a loved life.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

I'm so sorry for your loss of your boy. 

There are two members that are Vets here on the forum.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I am so sorry for your loss. He was a beautiful boy.


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## Olympia (Jan 11, 2010)

I am so very sorry for your loss......


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

BrennaB I am so sorry. I'm no vet but will try and describe the x-ray. The dark area is air in the lungs. All the white slivers in that void is the problem. There is no way you can remove this much growth with surgery. When there is this much growing in the lungs, it's usually somewhere else in the body as well.

I'm so sorry for your loss.


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## usually lurking (Apr 21, 2017)

If it helps, I had somewhat similar situation with my last Golden, though mine was 10, not 4. One morning, he coughed up blood. He had been acting completely normal, racing around the yard, playing in the sprinklers, playing with the kids. He had even been at his breeder's for a week, living in her house, two weeks prior to this. Our regular vet took xrays, and his had a very similar look to your dog's, with white cotton-looking strands throughout his lungs. I went to a specialist three days later for further testing and analysis. They confirmed hemangiosarcoma, which had spread to his lungs. They presented me with several options, one of which was euthanasia, and I took the one where we'd try chemo because he was still acting okay, other than coughing up blood. They kept him and gave part of the first round of chemo that day, and sent me home with more meds. They warned me to watch for him collapsing, as that was an indicator of hemorrhage. Less than a week later, I happened to be standing in my bedroom with him and saw him start to drop. I don't think I have ever moved so fast in my life. I caught him on the way down, then he was fine a few minutes later. We went back to the specialist (also an e-vet) and they checked him out and took another xray of his lungs and did more tests. They couldn't find any signs of hemorrhage, other than his collapse. I can't recall if chemo is supposed to help after the first round, but there was absolutely no improvement after the first treatment. I took him home that night, he was still up and around and interacting with us, and eating anything that was people food. He was a little more lethargic than usual - happier to cuddle than anything else. On the second day after the middle of the night trip to the e-vet, he was just lying around. Wouldn't get up for anything. Wouldn't go out, wouldn't get up for any food I offered, wouldn't get up for the kids, wasn't drinking. I took him to the vet that day, after everyone had a chance to say goodbye. It was both the hardest and the easiest thing I've ever done.

I am grateful, on some level, that his downward spiral was relatively quick. I'd have done anything to help him. It was just too late, and that sounds like what happened with your dog, as well. So, the flip side of your choice is mine. Should I have euthanized immediately? Maybe. But I had to try. We both ended up in exactly the same place, though. You can only make your choice based on the information you are given. I've found that, in the end, you are probably going to question yourself for a while - did you do the right thing and at the right time? Did you miss some subtle sign? Did you not do enough? Unfortunately, it frequently comes with the territory of having to make these decisions. It takes time, but eventually, you (kind of) come to terms with whatever choice you made.


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## Siandvm (Jun 22, 2016)

I’m so very sorry for what you are going through. So many of us can relate on some level, with our Goldens, with other pets, and I on a professional level as well. I think it’s human nature to question, to second guess, to play out the what-ifs. Please do not add to your heartbreak by questioning your decision. Those are not happy looking radiographs by any means. Could you have given him steroids and made him feel better? Maybe. Steroids are wonderful in the short term, but they don’t fix cancer, they just mask the signs. You mentioned that they said he had a tumor AND that he had cancer in his lungs. Did they say where the tumor was or am I misunderstanding? If I understood you correctly, based on your description of his symptoms and the anemia, I am going to assume that he had a liver or spleen tumor, probably hemangiosarcoma, and it was bleeding, causing the anemia. Again, if I’m right and it was that PLUS lungs that look like this, I really don’t think you could have made any other decision than the one you did. Even if I am misunderstanding, there is not one solitary mass in his lungs which could have been removed by lung lobectomy. Steroids might have helped in the short term, or they might not, but with the guidance of the veterinarian who was there, you made the kindest decision you could, without regard for your feelings, and that is all one could ever ask for. Please do not add to your grief by feeling that you made the wrong decision.


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

What type of cancer was he diagnosed with? The radiographs show metastasis to his lungs, but that is not the primary site of cancer. Bone tumors and hemangiosarcoma like to do this to lungs, but there are other tumors. This *could* also be a fungal disease, but less likely because the nodules are of different sizes. Sorry about the diagnosis. Cancer stinks


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## Gleepers (Apr 20, 2016)

Several years ago our husky started acting a bit off. Thought she had a UTI but when meds didn’t help we took her in and had it xrayed. 
Her upper mid section was solid tumor. She had been fine a week prior. It was a Friday and decided to take her home and enjoy what time we had left. Turns out not a lot. It progressed very quickly and was horrible for her and for us that weekend as we had to wait for the vet to open to take her in. 
You may have been able to stretch it out some but it likely wouldn’t have been of good quality. Saying good by is never easy but you guys did the right thing. 
I’m so sorry for your loss.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Brenna, my heart just goes out to you, I'm tired and it's been a long week and I feel myself fighting a losing battle with tears at the thought of what you're going through. My girl is the same age as your gorgeous boy and I can imagine how flattened you must feel. I am glad to see the input here from a few members I was really hoping would see this and respond, I hope they have been able to calm your anxiety and convince you to try to stop second guessing your decision. I think one of the most self-less things you can possibly do for a dog with cancer is to let him go and not have him linger and suffer. I am so terribly sorry for your loss and your grief. He sounds like a wonderful dog, a dog who deserves to be missed. My heart goes out to you.


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## dlmrun2002 (Mar 4, 2011)

Rest assured you made all the right moves for your dog. I am sorry you had to say goodbye to your golden boy. His photo ( not the X-ray) is awesome. Very handsome guy. All the happiness and tail wags he gave you was his way of thanking you for taking great care of him. You gave him a fantastic life and you made sure he didn't have to suffer much at the end. You should be proud of the hard but loving decision you made for your golden. I hope his special movie he made just for you reminds you how lucky you were to have him in your life as well.


“To call him a dog hardly seems to do him justice, though inasmuch as he had four legs, a tail, and barked, I admit he was, to all outward appearances. But to those of us who knew him well, he was a perfect gentleman.” – Hermione Gingold

dlm ny country


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## 4goldengirls (Jun 10, 2014)

:crying:I'm so very sorry. Life can be so unfair. For such a young dog to succumb to this disease is horrible. I understand your second guessing but please don't. I've second guessed myself for the past year and a half over euthanizing my dog for horrible kidney issues. Your dog is at peace and looking over you. Remember all of your happy memories and may those memories help you thru this difficult time. hugs. :crying::crying:


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## brianne (Feb 18, 2012)

I'm so very sorry for your loss. I cannot imagine the shock you are feeling losing him at the tender age of 4. 

I agree with the others - you made the kindest and best decision for your boy. Please try not to second-guess yourself too much.

I'm glad you found this site, though I wish the circumstances were happier. It's a wonderful, supportive community of Golden lovers. When you feel able, we'd love to hear more about your boy and see pictures.

Sending prayers for comfort.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

I'm so, so sorry. I can't imagine the pain you're going through. Let yourself grieve. Try not to second guess. I do know that's way easier said than done. Even after I treated my beloved girl's cancer for eight weeks, and she was not better, and I let her go, I doubted and questioned and felt guilty. My heart goes out to you. You made the right decision. You took her suffering into account - and you decided not to let her suffer anymore. That takes great selflessness and courage.


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## BrennaB (Dec 15, 2017)

I have tried all day yesterday to post a reply with no success. I finally typed a reply and screen shot it so I wouldn’t lose it again. Ugh.


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## BrennaB (Dec 15, 2017)

Also, a few asked about the tumor she told me about. I’m sorry. There were six total radiographs and I only posted the two of his lungs where she said showed cancer. Do you see a tumor in any of these other 4? Any translation of these would be so helpful. We were at an out of town “specialty” vet that I didn’t know. I didn’t ask many questions after she mentioned cancer and euthanasia. I kinda lost it after that. It wasn’t til the next day when I became an “internet research expert” (sarcasm) that I started having questions. I emailed the facility and asked for his clinical summary and copies of his radiographs. So, I SO appreciate you guys. Again, I can’t thank you enough. Your kind words have helped me so much.


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## Siandvm (Jun 22, 2016)

First, let me say that I do not have a veterinarian-client relationship with you, I never examined your pup, and you should not take anything I say as a diagnosis or in any way official. That said, there’s definitely something there. I’m having a little trouble figuring out what I’m seeing here, perhaps the resolution I’m looking at is not as it should be. However, you can see a very clear mass effect. That means I cannot define a mass per say, but there is something acting like a mass as far as it’s effects on other abdominal contents. What’s confusing me is it’s not where I expected it to be. Unfortunately, as I am typing this I cannot see the pictures, so now I’m going from memory. The mass effect is a uniform gray in the caudal (towards tail, right side of lateral view) aspect of the abdomen. It is pushing the intestines down and forward. In the other view (vertical spine in middle of view), the mass effect seems to be located on the right side of the radiograph, which is the left side of the patient. 

The reason I am confused is that if it was the spleen or liver as I had originally predicted, I would expect the mass effect to be towards the chest, not lateral or dorsal (towards top line of patient) or caudal. I wonder if it may be retroperitoneal, which is where the kidneys and adrenals hang out. Perhaps there was a retroperitoneal bleed, which could cause this mass effect and the anemia you described. The other thing I am not seeing is evidence of a significant bleed within the abdomen. That would cause a graying out of the abdomen as the blood has the same color appearance as the mass effect. That’s what is making me wonder if it is retroperitoneal, which would allow it to stay contained, causing the appearance of a mass rather than a generalized bleed. You said they did an ultrasound. What did that show? That would certainly have been my inclination after seeing these radiographs. What do the records say re. a presumptive diagnosis? 

Let me be clear again, though, I am seeing nothing to tell me that you did not make the best decision possible in the moment. I am so sorry for your and your son’s pain.


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## BrennaB (Dec 15, 2017)

Siandvm, thank you so much. First, I do realize you haven’t examined him and you are giving the best opinion you can just looking at the radiographs. I just appreciate the insight because I am just not familiar with how to read them. I’d be grateful for a veterinary perspective, or just someone who has been through this and are familiar with this kind of stuff. So please know, I understand what you are saying. You are just offering your best educated opinion from what little you are seeing. 
In the clinical summary, she says abdominal mass mastisized (sp?) in the lungs. I just don’t know what I’m looking at. 
When she came in she had her iPad or whatever and said “we just got the X-rays back and it’s a lot worse than we thought”. Then she quickly showed one image so fast I didn’t see it and said “see this, that’s a tumor but we could deal with that”. Then she brought up the lungs and said “this is a picture of his lungs. There is cancer all in there. See all those nodules?” Then I remember nothing from then. 
I DO remember us being in there with him crying and we finally told the Tech we were ready. The vet came in with her syringes and knelt down and sweet Smoky wagged his tail while she spoke to him telling him how sorry she was. He still seemed so happy. Then just before she was about to administer the drugs a tech came in asking if we wanted to settle our bill “now or after”. I just dug out my credit card and gave it to him. Some of these people need sensitivity training, I swear. 
We had had him at the vet several times in the past 6 months for his skin. Probably about 4 times. In fact, when he died he was on like his 3rd or 4th round of antibiotics and prednisone in the past 6 months or so, maybe a little more. This was the last time and when it cleared up this time we had planned to start him on a cadi injection that he would need every 4 to 6 weeks for maintenance. He kept getting this yeasty smelling black greasy stuff under his arms, mostly his right arm pit. It would clear up with antibiotics and pred then come right back when he went off the meds. I started making his food to rule out a food allergy but that didn’t help either. 
Every single time we had him in there they did a physical exam and felt his abdomen. Even the records we have from our local vet describes his abdomen as soft/normal. If he had an abdominal mass would that, in most cases, be felt during the exam? 
Im attaching the clinical summary. I blurred out my phone number, address and the veterinarians name. I just didn’t want to splash her name out there, and my address and phone # for obvious reasons. 
Again, thank you for insight, and anyone else’s insight that may be familiar. 

Gah, I feel so high maintenance with all my questions ?. I apologize. It’s getting easier but sometimes the smallest little thing triggers an ugly cry. I just miss my boy. He came home to us yesterday, via the US mail. ?


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

I'm not a vet but can understand. Over the years I have seen X-rays of mine at the end and I have become to understand there was no question.

When my boy was passing all the vet could say was look at that spine, best spine I ever saw for a 13 yr old.

I see plenty of problems so you did make the right decision. I'm so sorry for your loss. The follow up mail and a wagging tail at the time doesn't help and just brings it all back to a head.


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

Maybe you could try to focus on the good part of him still being able to wag his tail and be happy and with his people at the end. It could have been much worse, miserable days getting sicker and sicker or maybe being home alone or alone at the vet hospital at the end. Clearly he loved and trusted people even at the end which tells us he had a great life with your family. I know you just need reassurance that you made the correct choice and that's okay. It's hard.


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## Siandvm (Jun 22, 2016)

The clinical summary really doesn’t add anything to what you have already told and showed us, unfortunately. The US is listed as a fast exam, which is not intended to be a full abdominal US, but an emergency procedure, primarily looking for free fluid, which they found. Without any further diagnostics (analysis of the abdominal fluid, a complete abdominal US, eexploratory surgery) we can’t postulate any further. You could have done any or all of those things given the abdominal rads, which is what the vet was getting at with her comment about being able to deal with that. Unfortunately, the appearance of his lungs changes the usefulness of that. He was your dog, so it would be your decision whether or not to pursue anything further, but I have to say, had he been mine, I probably would not have. Maybe, for my own information I might have done a full abdominal US to figure out exactly where the mass was, but I cannot fathom that it would have changed the outcome, it would just have satisfied my professional curiosity. 

I would not expend any more energy questioning whether you did the right thing. Just mourn the loss of your special boy and the fact that there are so many of these wonderful dogs who succumb at such a young age.


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

I'm so sorry for what you had to go through. Putting your boy to sleep was the kindest thing for him, It is exactly what I would have done. Personally I don't think bringing a terminally ill dog home, for him to continually decline and possibly suffer even more, is in the dogs best interest. You are a wonderful pet owner and made the best decision you could have and if you believe as I do, you'll see him again.


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## SandyK (Mar 20, 2011)

I am so sorry for your loss. Smoky was way to young...cancer sucks!! My thoughts are with you as you mourn the loss of your boy. He will live in your heart forever!!


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## BrennaB (Dec 15, 2017)

Thank you. I knew they didn’t do the full US. She was going to call someone in to do it then she told us we would just be wasting our money if we did because of the cancer. That’s why it wasn’t done. She pretty much told us there was no hope and the best thing was euthanasia. She pretty much said they wouldn’t do anything else. I didn’t really care for her coldness, but I guess it could be just because I didn’t know her. She was short, to the point, and quite frank. I understand she can’t hold everyone’s hand and cry along with them. My husband and I both were in the law enforcement profession (me administratively) and we completely understand having to be like that. He had to deal with a lot of “people” deaths and talk with their families and had to be professional and separate himself from the emotions of it all or you would never get the job accomplished. But still, a small amount of compassion would have been nice. Our local vet is awesome.


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## Siandvm (Jun 22, 2016)

I’m sorry that she made a difficult time worse for you. A little time and compassion goes a long way.


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## BrennaB (Dec 15, 2017)

I want to thank everyone here who have talked me through this. After your replies I feel a lot better about our decision. You guys took a “newbie” here and reached out to help me during this sucky and emotionally turbulent time. For that I can never thank you enough. You are a truly awesome group of people and I wish I had found you sooner. 
I always say I love my dogs more than I like most people. They are a major part of my every day. This is the first time I have been golden retrieverless in a long time. We now just have our sweet little 4lb yappy dog. Lol. That sounded bad but I love her, she is attached to me like Velcro. I just miss my big goofy huge brown eyed babies. 
I feel sure I will take the plunge again but I just need a little time, and I also need to figure out if I want another GR. There is no other breed that comes close to the love and loyalty of a GR. My odds just aren’t good. I did everything right and feel so screwed out of many more years that I should have had with them. But, I know dwelling on what “could have been” helps no one, least of all me. I will figure things out in time. 
You all are a bunch of great people!!


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

BrennaB said:


> ...I feel sure I will take the plunge again but I just need a little time, and I also need to figure out if I want another GR. There is no other breed that comes close to the love and loyalty of a GR. My odds just aren’t good. I did everything right and feel so screwed out of many more years that I should have had with them...


I hope that you know how much everyone wished you weren't going through this, most of us know how painful it feels from experience. Maybe when the time is right, you will come back here and let us help you with your search. I understand the idea that while you love your little yapper, he's not a Golden. I felt the same way with my Collie, who is a wonderful boy, just not a Golden. It can help keep you busy to work on research and it would be better to find a litter too soon and say no then to wake up one day and realize you wish you'd started months ago. Thinking of you.


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## BrennaB (Dec 15, 2017)

nolefan said:


> I hope that you know how much everyone wished you weren't going through this, most of us know how painful it feels from experience. Maybe when the time is right, you will come back here and let us help you with your search. I understand the idea that while you love your little yapper, he's not a Golden. I felt the same way with my Collie, who is a wonderful boy, just not a Golden. It can help keep you busy to work on research and it would be better to find a litter too soon and say no then to wake up one day and realize you wish you'd started months ago. Thinking of you.


Aww, thank you!! Research is exactly what I am doing now. I’ve learned so much in the last 2 weeks than I have learned in the past 15 years of GR ownership. Or, I am learning about the bad stuff anyway. Not something I want to dwell on but now I realize it’s better to be aware of the early signs, no matter how small, and maybe if it ever happens again I’ll be able to get help before it’s too late. Now that I think back, there were a couple of early signs. They were nothing you would normally get upset about, but knowing what I know now I would have done something to get him checked. He spit up blood once in early November. Just once. I thought maybe he bumped his mouth or bit his tongue or something. Then he had those coughing problems a couple times. They would last a Day then go away for a week then come back another day then go away for another week. And even so, those things happened late October early November, so it may have still been too late. 
He has had skin problems for the past couple of years. We never had him allergy tested but we had spent a bunch of money over several vet visits trying to fix it. Several rounds of prednisone and antibiotics. He got a black greasy type rash, kinda crusty. That’s the reason I started making his food and mixing it with a little bit of limited ingredient kibble, thinking it could be food allergies. That never helped but I continued to make it just because it made me feel better to do it. We could never figure out what the problem was and were going to start him on a non-steroidal alternative when we got it cleared up this time, something called Cadi ?? I don’t know if his skin issues had their roots in something far more serious. Just something else for me to research I guess. 
It’s always hard to lose an animal this way. But to lose 2 or more like this is excruciating. Our female GR was obtained through a local breeder and her breeding left a lot to be desired &#55357;&#56838;. Her sire was also her grandsire. (We didn’t know that until we got her papers). I know that they say this can be done by experienced responsible breeders but I’m not sure how “responsible” she was. I mean, we visited her house, both parents were on site, we saw all the puppies and picked ours out. It wasn't a puppy mill. Maybe what they call a “backyard breeder”? She was my first GR and I really wanted one. They all looked loved and cared for so I purchased one. She lived to be 12, almost 13. &#55357;&#56838;. I’m pretty sure she died of cancer, she had mast cell tumors on her belly, but she was old and I just referred to them as old lady bumps. She got them late in life. We had one removed but the vet didn’t really want to put her under for anymore because of her age. 
Funny how the two I purchased with Grand Champion bloodlines died at 4 and 6. The “questionable” (we called her our inbred ******* girl, out of love of course &#55357;&#56845 lived a full and long life. 
Christmas is over and hopefully after the new year life can get a little less bumpy and I’ll have time to think about my future puppy. I’ll never forget my other babies though, none of us ever do. They will forever live on in our hearts. 
Thanks for letting me ramble on, and if you actually read all that, thanks for “listening”. 
I attached some photos. He was a gorgeous doggie. One picture he is with his sister Daisy (darker golden with white face) who died in 2014 and another he is with my little 4lb terror. He was such a good big brother to her. So gentle with her, like he knew she couldn’t play like the big boys could. &#55357;&#56382;&#55357;&#56374;&#55357;&#56382; &#55356;&#57096;


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I'm glad you are researching. If you haven't discovered it yet, you can click on any name on k9data and look to see what that dog died of if it was entered. You can look at the change history (if Leslie entered the dog, oftentimes you will find no further info since it was done as part of her research/gift to the community) and see who input the info. You can go to a 5 gen page and see a longevity pedigree and a hip pedigree.


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## OscarsDad (Dec 20, 2017)

My deep and sorrowful commiserations and sympathy for your loss. My first wonderful golden, Cirrus, died of abdominal cancer at six. It will take awhile to heal. Second guessing yourself is not helpful. He was beautiful and I am sure you loved him enough for several lifetimes.


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