# Need help with behavioral problem (fear)



## ksuer (Feb 26, 2008)

Hi. I have not been a member here very long but wanted to see if anyone has any thoughts on how I can help my sweet Andy. We have an appointment with a behavioral therapist on Saturday but wanted to see if anyone has had this same problem. 

My husband got Andy when he was 12 weeks old and he had not been socialized at all. He is terrified of many things but especially people. At first he would just cower but now that he is 6 months old if he gets really stressed he will growl and then bark. (He did this at obedience class this week when a little girl jumped - not at him, she was about 5 feet away) I have tried taking him places where there are people but also where it's not too busy to try to desensitize him. He's in obedience class which I read would help. He is learning everything in class but he is still scared to death! When we first get there he shakes and then he sleeps a lot as a way of dealing with the stress. He also will growl and bark in our yard whenever he sees any of our neighbors in their yards. Nothing seems to be working.

Andy is such a sweet thing otherwise and I hate that he is so scared and unhappy when he's outside of our house. I also don't want him to grow into a biter.

If anyone has had any experience with this I would appreciate any feedback. Thanks so much!!


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

Definatly desensitize in small doses from long distances at first and moving in. While desensitizing work through all your "tricks' like sit, stay, down. This will let the dog know that you don't see the person/object as a threat. Keep working closer and closer over a period of weeks/months.

Good luck to you. Keep us posted on what works for your pup.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I would first ask you if when Andy exhibits this behavior you pet or stroke him and tell him "It's alright, it's okay"...

If so, that is offering positive reniforcement for negative behavior. While as a human we are intending to tell him that the THING he is afraid of is alright or okay, what he hears is that his response to it is alright or okay.


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## ksuer (Feb 26, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> I would first ask you if when Andy exhibits this behavior you pet or stroke him and tell him "It's alright, it's okay"...


I definitely don't do that. I caught my husband doing it and had to explain that it was just reinforcing the behavior. 

I actually think I may be trying to do things too fast. Sometimes there are more people around him than I like and he's so cute that people will just make a bee-line for him before I can stop them. It's not their fault...they just don't understand.

I really appreciate the input from both of you. Thanks!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Good. It sounds like you are doing the right things. I am a firm believer in classes, and lots of exposure. If you remain comfortable and confident around him, he should get through it.

Good luck!


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## maiapup (Nov 22, 2007)

I would ask if the classes you are taking him to are strictly 'obedience' or do they offer some behavior work as well. If they are strictly 'obedience', I would look for a class that has a behavior focus as opposed to the task oriented regime of most 'obedience' type classes where they simply teach the exercises and don't address behaviors.

If you need a referral, feel free to PM me and I may be able to refer you to someone in your area.


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## Thalie (Jan 20, 2008)

I happen to have a guardy Labradork. I think it is partly fear-based with a dash of territoriality added. She used to throw it all out (barking, hair up from her neck to her spine, etc.) when people dared come to our fence, to our door or to work in our house. She was perfect on the street though so I knew it was not deep down aggression.

The way I've worked with her recently (and it could perhaps work with your pup's fear based displays too) is to treat her as soon as she interrupted her behavior and focused her attention back on me. At first, I really had to look for that quick instant so I did not reinforce the barking/out of control behavior but the stopping of it. By now, I can have somebody visit or work in the house and she will announce but come and sit or down when asked (still keeping her baby gated and using treats at this point then letting her go visit if appropriate). The overall idea was to make her associate people with good stuff happening and to find something I could reward her for. 

While she will never be an "everybody is my friend" Lab and will always need one of us to be present to make sure that people are not "invading", she has made good progress. Perhaps you could find a way to associate meeting people (and yes, keep trying to make it as low key as you can) with something he enjoys (treat, toy, tug, chest rub, whatever makes his day). The trick is to be sure of what you are reinforcing.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Thalie said:


> I happen to have a guardy Labradork. I think it is partly fear-based with a dash of territoriality added. She used to throw it all out (barking, hair up from her neck to her spine, etc.) when people dared come to our fence, to our door or to work in our house. She was perfect on the street though so I knew it was not deep down aggression.
> 
> The way I've worked with her recently (and it could perhaps work with your pup's fear based displays too) is to treat her as soon as she interrupted her behavior and focused her attention back on me. At first, I really had to look for that quick instant so I did not reinforce the barking/out of control behavior but the stopping of it. By now, I can have somebody visit or work in the house and she will announce but come and sit or down when asked (still keeping her baby gated and using treats at this point then letting her go visit if appropriate). The overall idea was to make her associate people with good stuff happening and to find something I could reward her for.
> 
> While she will never be an "everybody is my friend" Lab and will always need one of us to be present to make sure that people are not "invading", she has made good progress. Perhaps you could find a way to associate meeting people (and yes, keep trying to make it as low key as you can) with something he enjoys (treat, toy, tug, chest rub, whatever makes his day). The trick is to be sure of what you are reinforcing.


Great advice! Timing is the key and Thalie is totally on the mark with all of the advice given.

I have a golden who missed out on socialization when it was most important, very minimal human interaction. He loves people, but is very reserved unless it is a child or someone he knows. His tail wags very infrequently, usually only for me, but sometimes for a child. I have taken him to training classes, all of our rescue events, to the store to shop and to the park almost daily for a walk. He will be taking his therapy dog class soon and will pass it, I am sure. It does help, but he is never going to be the most outgoing dog with people he doesn't know.


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## ksuer (Feb 26, 2008)

maiapup, right now they were just obedience classes but we have an appt. tomorrow with someone that teaches behavioral classes. The only problem I have is that my husband thinks this is all so silly and he "will get over it." Hopefully, the person we are seeing tomorrow will make him see the light! I sent you a PM.

Thalie & Fostermom, thanks so much for telling me about your babies. Hope it's OK if I call them that  It makes me feel so much better to know that I'm not the only one. We had a friend come over tonight and just walk in the door. Andy immediately started growling at him before I got in the room. As soon as I got there I told Andy to watch me and he did. I can't believe the training actually worked! While he was focused on me I handed our friend a treat and he gave it to him. Of course as soon as Andy ate the treat he started growling again so we all just started talking and he stopped. Within 10 minutes he was chasing a ball our friend was throwing and bringing it back to him. Andy didn't want to be touched though but I still consider it a small success! I also have a 10 year old golden that loves everyone and she was all up in our friend's face. I think when Andy saw her so happy he figured maybe he's not so bad. 

We did have a little scare in the yard tonight. I had Andy out to relieve himself and all of a sudden he took off like a shot to the door and started growling. (We have a fenced in back yard) Turns out my neighbor was standing outside his door. Their house is so far away that they are almost like a speck to me...I cannot believe Andy even noticed. Nothing I could do before-hand to stop it. I kind of panicked not knowing what to do so I just picked up a stick and threw it - he loves to chase sticks. That distracted him enough to calm him down. It might not have been the right thing to do but it happened so fast my brain froze!

I just want him to be happy even if he doesn't love everyone. It's so sad how scared he gets at times. It breaks my heart when I see him tremble. He doesn't have to love everyone - just understand that he can co-exist with them and he won't be harmed. On a lighter note...tonight he started putting toys back in his toy box, lol! Whenever he wanted a new one to play with he would drop the old one in and get the new one out. It was adorable!

Sorry for being so long-winded tonight!


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## Thalie (Jan 20, 2008)

I think you handled both the visit and the yard situation quite appropriately. Having him watch you, having the friend treat him then ignoring the behavior seems to have worked. Appropriate behavior was rewarded then the lack of attention made the renewed behavior fade out.
The throwing of the stick also got him to focus on something else he likes even though there was a "big bad human" in the vicinity; I would perhaps have continued to play a while (or have him gone thru a combination of play and sits) so that he would have time to realize that there was no threat and that life can go on normally. 

What you are seeing could be the onset of a "fear period" (talked about as starting anywhere between 4 and 14 months depending on the authors). I hope the behaviorist will put your mind at ease and will give you more tools to help build Andy's confidence. Let us know how it goes. From what you describe Andy is very probably going to turn out just fine when he is a little bit more grown. 

One note about the growling, it is also adviced to never over-correct for growling; it is a communication that something is not right. If you extinguish the growling completely, the dog could end up stepping up to a bite without having had a chance to warn off. I think a lot of "without warning" incidents are due to the inadvertent shutting off of the warning system.

Fostermom - :thanks:


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## ksuer (Feb 26, 2008)

I just wanted to thank everyone for your advice and support. We saw a behavioral specialist yesterday and I'm looking forward to our sessions. We started off with a 2 1/2 (!) hour interview with the trainer, my husband, and Andy. She basically observed Andy for the first hour or so through the glass table we were all sitting at. He was very scared to be in a new place but she we very good with him. When the trainer finally interacted with Andy she had me sit on the floor with her and she turned her body and face away from him and offered him a treat. It took a little while but he finally took it. He never really relaxed - his tail was between his legs, ears down, and was in a stance to flee if necessary but at least he took the treat. 

We don't have our first session until the 27th (she's in very great demand because there are only two specialists in town) but she gave us some pointers until we get started. We are not going to take him places with a lot of people because he was being overwhelmed, only walk in in my yard (that way he can still see other people and dogs but not in close proximity), and don't leave him in the back yard unattended. 

One other piece of advise she gave us was whenever anyone comes to our home and he starts barking is to just act like Andy doesn't exist. Now we don't get many visitors but the past two days have been like Grand Central Station! Before we let anyone in we tell them not to look at Andy and to just ignore his barking. So far it has worked like a charm! Andy barks for a few minutes and then just seems to think, "well, that's not doing anything so I will just sit down and be quiet." My BIL started playing with our other dog and Andy figured out that he was missing out on something and started playing too! My BIL came back later in the day and my husband was in the back of the house...he walked in the door and Andy didn't make a sound. 

I'm so encouraged by just these past two days! One thing she did warn us about though is not to take things going well for granted. Act every day like the problem is as bad as it first was or we will get careless and he could back-slide.

Thanks again to all of you and I will keep you updated!

Thalie, due to past mistakes I have been letting Andy bark. We had a lhasa apso once that barked so much I tried to stop him and then he started biting. I sure didn't want to make that mistake again! I adored Winston (the lhasa) - he was the smartest dog I ever saw but was a total psycho! We left him in the car for about 5 minutes to go in a quick-mart one time and he ate the dash of the car! Not just little teeth marks - he tore that thing up!!


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