# Gold Rocks Goldens



## PeanutsMom (Oct 14, 2007)

I'm sorry you had a bad experience.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Thank you for this information. It's important to get this out there, and on this forum, as well.

Thank you again.


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## Bailey & Bentley (Feb 25, 2007)

I am sorry this happened to you. I don't think you are the first from what I have read on this forum.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Wow...sorry this happened to you. What type of action will you take? Sorry, I like legal actions...lol.

Is that why she blew up before she left? About the clearances and stuff?

Just wondering...


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Im sorry you are going through this..... But to be truthful it doesnt surprise me at all..... Looking at the website, there were way to many litters. Glad you came out and let others know , so they know what you have been through.


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

Sorry to hear that you are going through this. But I do thank you for sharing your story with us. I do so hope your Golden is healthy and lives a long life.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Dave & Sandi -

This is particularly painful to read, as photos of Kali Kliza were plastered all over this forum and her progress followed by many nice people who enjoy puppy photos. You were then brought into the fray via a thread started by the breeder as an "apology" to you. Now, I hope that you will find community, and helpful advice, and a forum of understanding here.

While the fact is that you paid a very high price for dog that certainly is not what it was represented to be, she is lucky to be yours. And hopefully, your concern and good care will assure health and longevity for her. Too many others who have purchased dogs from Kali's breeder have had to resort to legal action to get her to honor her guarantee when their dogs were diagnosed as dysplastic at a young age. I _sincerely_ hope that you will not be joining that club. 

Please know that you are not alone in your confusion and trying to understand how this situation has been able to exist for so long.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

I hope everything turns out ok with your puppy. 

But I agree that I would take legal action. If for no other reason than principle. Just print outs of her web page should be evidence of the lies you were told.


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## jessie girl (Mar 24, 2007)

I wish you the best of luck with your puppy. Her website is very inviting and we inquired w/ her on purchasing a puppy back in Feb/Mar - something just didn't add up then for us. 

We purchased our pup from another breeder in Michigan she is 15 weeks old, her name is Lilly. 

Your girl is beauitful and hopefully she will have a happy and healthy life w/ you and your family. Thanks for sharing your story as heartbreaking as it may be it may help another future family from making the same mistake - that is falling for the wonderful site w/ lots of cute pictures.

Penny 
Jessie Girl

mom to 2 crazy human kids and Jessie 7 and Lilly 15 weeks


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I hope that your Kalli has good health and doesnt suffer any health problems. I am sorry you are having problems with Goldrocks' but as I have been reading I am not surprised.
I hope that you will stick around and share pictures and stories of your beautiful girl and we can fully understand what you are going through. Good luck with Kalli. I love her name.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Let us know if we can help you in any way. I think it is very important that information such as this be kept out there, as perhaps the knowlege will help others make informed choices. 
Thank you for sharing your story.


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

im am so sorry that you were treated that way. the breeder i got jake from acted the same way, in a sense. (not saying shes anything like GRM)

she was soo nice and soo helpful, until i paid her and took jake home. Now, i cant get ahold of her AT ALL. shes a busy lady, but i just think shes not very interested in her puppies. makes me sad... (i paid not nearly as much as you did...i paid 600 for jacob) she still doesnt know that he has addisons disease. i contacted her while he was being diagnosed, and told her i would let her know for sure. since then, she hasnt answered any calls or emails.

i hope your pup stays healthy and happy!

by the way, thanks for coming back and updating everyone!! do you have pictures?


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## dave&sandikliza (Sep 12, 2007)

*Golden Breeders*

Thank you for your reply and the pictures of Jake, He is a great looking Golden. We appreciate knowing others are going through similar problems as ours. We will be taking legal action in an attempt to prevent disreputable breeders from taking further advantage of Golden buyers and the Goldens themselves.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm so sorry Dave. I remember you posting. Lets hope you have the same wonderful years with Kalli. It can happen...


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

dave&sandikliza said:


> Thank you for your reply and the pictures of Jake, He is a great looking Golden. We appreciate knowing others are going through similar problems as ours. We will be taking legal action in an attempt to prevent disreputable breeders from taking further advantage of Golden buyers and the Goldens themselves.


Good for you. I know that this is not a decision that you have taken lightly. All Golden lovers should be grateful to you.
Thank you, and good luck.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles. Your puppy is adorable and I wish you the best with her.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Excuse me for asking a dumb question here, I should know the answer but I don't.

Is it okay for breeders to give their puppies shots, rather than a vet? What are the issues with this practice? Is it common?


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Our Rescue gives shots to the dogs except Rabies, at lic. vet has to give that..... Anyone can buy the shots from a feed and seed or online.. and give them....


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

Jo Ellen said:


> Excuse me for asking a dumb question here, I should know the answer but I don't.
> 
> Is it okay for breeders to give their puppies shots, rather than a vet? What are the issues with this practice? Is it common?


I give my own shots, BUT my puppies go in for a check up to my vet also. My vet has actually taught me to do my own shots as well as microchips. If he didn't feel comfortable with me doing them, he would have told me. He is very up front about everything with me.

I also only buy the brand of shot that he recommends - Fort Dodge - and I get them through Valley Vet Supply, not a feed store.


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## dave&sandikliza (Sep 12, 2007)

*Golden Breeders*

Hey Carol and Bama Bear,

We appreciate your concern and insight into our problem with Gold Rocks and your offer of assistance. We believe we have learned alot going through this experience and hope and pray it will not be detriminal to Kalli's health. This is now our a major concern of ours, and although our funds are limited, we have been in contact with legal representation to persue the matter as best we are able. We love the picture of Bama Bear holding the flag. We have pics of Kalli but are still having difficulity getting them to post.
Again, thank you and everyone else who have responded with their thoughts and comments. We felt obligated to share our story with the forum members.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I give my own shots, even to my adults, with the exception of rabies. I order from Foster and Smith, who are only about 1 1/2 hours away from me, so delivery is quick and quality is high. It is very easy to do and much much cheaper-usually less than $2 per shot per puppy. I also keep epinephrine on hand for severe reactions, and benedryl as well. I've never had to use either but just in case.

I won't use the feed and seed stores because I do worry about how they store their vaccines, and I know that Foster and Smith do a good job with them (a friend who is a vet works for them.)

My puppies do however see the vet at least once before they go home, for a "well baby" visit  Those are always fun, as the entire staff helps bring the puppies in and corral them in an exam room.

My vet gives me a puppy record for each puppy, and the labels from the shots go there, to provide a record for the new owner. I also do my own wormings, although if I suspect coccidia or giardia, a trip to the vet is generally in order.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I am so sorry, Sandi and Dave, that you have to go through this. I hope that Kalli will have a healthy and happy life for a very long time.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

My puppies are always seen by my vet. Checked over thoroughly, and a written record of each exam provided. Their first exam is usually done at a couple of days old. They are always seen twice, and sometimes the vaccines as well as microchipping is done by him on their 2nd visit. With some litters, I have done my own vaccinations, and purchased the vaccine directly from my vet. On the health record that goes home with each puppy, I attach the vaccine vial label so that the owners may show this to their vet. There is no question as to what has been administered, and a record of the manufacturer, lot number, and expiration date of the vaccine used is available.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Dave and Sandi,

I am so sorry that you have had to go through this with your beautiful Kalli! Hopefully she will remain in excellent health. I think you are doing the right thing by persuing legal action. You were lied to and at the very least should have some or all of the purchase price for Kalli refunded to you. Hugs to you and your precious Kalli.

Jazzys Mom


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## Angel_Kody (Feb 27, 2007)

I'm so sorry you had this experience. It sounds like Kalli is one lucky pup to have ended up with responsible and loving owners like you. I wish you all a long, happy, and healthy life together.


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## dave&sandikliza (Sep 12, 2007)

*Gold Rocks*

Hello Pointgold,

The points you made are well taken. We appreciate the information and assistance you have provided to us. We are in process of persuing the matter as you suggested. It is ironic in that the Goldens themselves are the ones who are at the real risk in this fiasco. Unfortunately we came to this realization late in the game but we will make every effort in circling the wagons to defend them and their health. It is inexcusable for there to be no health clearances paperwork from the breeder. We realize we were also at fault for not researching her website and her past practices prior to purchasing our puppy.


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

I'd also like to wish Kalli many years of great heath ahead. This is such a terrible shame... and what's worse is that it is able to continue.


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

I am very sorry to hear about these issues as well. Hopefully, she will be a happy healthy pup with you.


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## dave&sandikliza (Sep 12, 2007)

*Gold Rocks*

Good morning Jazzys Mom,

Hey, great picture! You sound like a devoted Golden owner. Kalli is something else. She will sometimes take something that she knows she isn't supposed to have, like a shoe or towel and sit on sofa with it hanging out of her mouth just waiting for us to notice her with it! Needless to say we will be taking her to obedience classes when she has all her remaining required shots. She keeps us going similar to how this ball keeps going!:bowl:

Dave & Sandi


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

dave&sandikliza said:


> Hello Pointgold,
> 
> The points you made are well taken. We appreciate the information and assistance you have provided to us. We are in process of persuing the matter as you suggested. It is ironic in that the Goldens themselves are the ones who are at the real risk in this fiasco. Unfortunately we came to this realization late in the game but we will make every effort in circling the wagons to defend them and their health. It is inexcusable for there to be no health clearances paperwork from the breeder. We realize we were also at fault for not researching her website and her past practices prior to purchasing our puppy.


I only wish that someone could have helped you sooner, rather than after the fact.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

As a former public affairs person, I also encourage Dave and Sandi to follow up with the reporter who has covered Gold Rocks Mom's issues in the past about these latest developments and broken promises. There was at least one previous thread with more information, name of newspaper, etc. The world needs to know the truth. I hope Kalli has a long and happy life with you.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

dave&sandikliza said:


> Good morning Jazzys Mom,
> 
> Hey, great picture! You sound like a devoted Golden owner. Kalli is something else. She will sometimes take something that she knows she isn't supposed to have, like a shoe or towel and sit on sofa with it hanging out of her mouth just waiting for us to notice her with it! Needless to say we will be taking her to obedience classes when she has all her remaining required shots. She keeps us going similar to how this ball keeps going!:bowl:
> 
> Dave & Sandi


Thank you! Yep, my Jazzy (and my SunnyRose) are the owners around here and we just do what they tell us to do!: Jazzy is the most curious dog I have ever had! She's like a little kid! When I bring groceries in she has to poke around in every bag to see what it is! Hubby put something on top of a board he has in the garage and when she went past it she noticed it immediately and had to stand up on her rear paws to sniff it and see what it was. NOTHING gets past this girl. 

Jazzys Mom


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Jackson'sMom said:


> As a former public affairs person, I also encourage Dave and Sandi to follow up with the reporter who has covered Gold Rocks Mom's issues in the past about these latest developments and broken promises. There was at least one previous thread with more information, name of newspaper, etc. The world needs to know the truth. I hope Kalli has a long and happy life with you.


This is a good idea, and I know that there are others on this forum in the same postion (and even worse, as they've alread spent several thousand dollars for surgery for a young, dysplastic dog bred by and purchased from GoldRocks). They should all contact the Tri-County Times in Fenton, MI. Sharing their stories make make the picture clearer for those in Tyrone Township who might not be aware of the ramifications of GoldRock's operations.


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## Goldmom42 (Oct 17, 2007)

I am so sorry for what you are going through. I think the worst part is the worry about the future health of your baby. I hope Kalli has a long and healthy life.


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## jaxson (Oct 9, 2007)

Dave and Sandi,

Welcome to the club! Not only the GoldRocks Duped Club but also the GR Forum. I have to say, finding this site has been extremely informative and of great value. Not only to the history of GoldRocks but also to the vast depth of breed knowledge and information shared by the users of this site. Since joining the site there has been some great takeaway by myself and kids to help us through our training program with Sadie.

Like you, I purchased a puppy from GRM 18 months ago. And to this day, our puppy has endured 2 hip surgeries and we have yet to receive paperwork (certs, registrations) of any kind. Despite threatening to file and ultimately filing suit against them their is still no response. I will not reiterate my details (beacause this has been beaten to death) as they are already noted in one of the threads (I believe under Introductions, Hello from Gurnee). Sorry for the weak directions, but I am slowly learning my way around the site.

As for the discussion of the subject matter and reading some of the threads from yesterday, sharing this type of information is imperative. Not only on this site but others as well which ultimately will help get the word out and thereby alerting potential buyers as to the issues with a particular breeder. The long term effect would be a reduction in demand from this person which may then reduce the frequency of litters and potentially require the breeder to reconsider their method of practice. 

Any way, if you would like to chat or share information, feel free to shoot me a private message.

Jaxson


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## Emmysourgolden (Oct 10, 2007)

Omg, how sad. I just wanted to wish you and your goldens good health and hope you get everything worked out.


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

*Legal?????*

This is almost starting to sound like a class action law suit. I wonder how many Gold Rocks customers are simply in the dark, and have never asked any questions, either before or after they took their dogs home.


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## Jellybean's mom (Jul 6, 2007)

Unfortunately, it appears that many customers were told similar stories that everything is legitimate, but the papers are not available yet.

The fact is that is a puppy is able to be registered by the AKC you would have received that paperowrk immediately and there is no legitimate reason it would not be available. Now we all know that due to the AKC ban, thses puppies are probably not able to be registered with the AKC.

Also, I hope you realize that if you are waiting for clearance paperwork you will most likely not ever receive it. Per GRM's own statements she "has" all the clearances but they haven't been sent in to OFA. Please be aware that she MAY have xrays that have been reviewed by some vet and deemed to be "OK" but this is NOT a clearance. At best this is a statement from a vet that the hips/elbows/patellas MAY be normal. 

Having independent evaluation by impartial experts at OFA (or Pennhip) that certify that the xrays were correctly done and having them graded on a standard scale is the only way to obtain clearance.

We all sincerely hope that all of your puppies live happy, healthy lives. I'm so sorry you have to go through this. Hopefully your stories will help someone else.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

This is heartbreaking to me. When the time is right, I will share the nightmare I have been living since January of 2005 when I, along with the Flint Journal, their reporter, and a Leader Dogs for the blind puppy intake person were named in a lawsuit filed by GoldRocks. Whatever was shown to forum members who visited her in regards to that lawsuit was either not viewed accurately, or was shown to them completely out of context.
Suffice it to say that her own attorney has attempted twice during the course of the suit to be removed as counsel. Interestingly, _that_ attorney is not the same one that was named as her counsel in the Tyrone Township's suit against her. Note also that counts against the four of us defendants have already been dismissed, leaving her responsible for the legal fees. My attorney is still attempting to complete depositon of Ms. Schulz, last week would have been the 7th continuation, however, Ms. Schulz did not show, yet again. This is delaying judgement on the last remaining count.
My frustration has been twofold - one, my own situation and the thousands of dollars spent to defend against what amounts to a harassment suit and misuse of the judicial system, and second, my concerns for the dogs and buyers who have suffered from what they now know are false representations at best , and worse, the pain and expense of crippled and ill dogs.
There have been days when I have wanted to scream "I TOLD YOU!!!" But those are far outnumbered by the days that I cry thinking that I did not do enough.
All I can do now is pray that my personal nightmare is over soon, and to try my hardest to help those who need it with theirs.


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## Bailey & Bentley (Feb 25, 2007)

I feel so sorry for everyone that has gotten a dog with problems. It is just saddening to me. There is nothing we want more than for our furbabies to live happy healthy lives. This is just so wrong to me.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Dave & Sandi, twcc, and jaxson... thanks for being so brave and telling us your personal stories... I know it was not easy but it does need to be told as a lesson to those of us who fell under the spell of over-the-top emotional outbursts and endless puppy and dogs-in-costume pictures, and all the lies and half-truths created and told to gain both sympathy and time (delaying tactics), and even when it really didn't all add up many of us still had our brains switched to "OFF" and continued to run on the 'blind faith' we'd given to essentially a total stranger met over the internet. Also the posting of your stories (your first-hand experiences) also provide a warning to all future puppy buyers that finding and evaluating a reputable breeder is a very serious matter indeed. I've learned as much through this experience as I think everyone else did.

I am truly glad you guys did post your first-hand experiences because though I (and some others on this forum) knew of even more horrifying events we were prevented (and still are) from relating any of it on the open forum as any 're-telling' constitutes hearsay... this kind of information can (legally) only come from people with first-hand dealings with GRM. So now maybe more forum members (past and future) can finally be made aware of a bit more of what has been going on for many years. I feel so relieved now that somebody has started telling their story... thanks, you guys!


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

Pointgold said:


> This is heartbreaking to me. When the time is right, I will share the nightmare I have been living since January of 2005 when I, along with the Flint Journal, their reporter, and a Leader Dogs for the blind puppy intake person were named in a lawsuit filed by GoldRocks. Whatever was shown to forum members who visited her in regards to that lawsuit was either not viewed accurately, or was shown to them completely out of context.
> Suffice it to say that her own attorney has attempted twice during the course of the suit to be removed as counsel. Interestingly, _that_ attorney is not the same one that was named as her counsel in the Tyrone Township's suit against her. Note also that counts against the four of us defendants have already been dismissed, leaving her responsible for the legal fees. My attorney is still attempting to complete depositon of Ms. Schulz, last week would have been the 7th continuation, however, Ms. Schulz did not show, yet again. This is delaying judgement on the last remaining count.
> My frustration has been twofold - one, my own situation and the thousands of dollars spent to defend against what amounts to a harassment suit and misuse of the judicial system, and second, my concerns for the dogs and buyers who have suffered from what they now know are false representations at best , and worse, the pain and expense of crippled and ill dogs.
> There have been days when I have wanted to scream "I TOLD YOU!!!" But those are far outnumbered by the days that I cry thinking that I did not do enough.
> All I can do now is pray that my personal nightmare is over soon, and to try my hardest to help those who need it with theirs.


When I visited, nothing to do with the lawsuit, the AKC or clearances was brought up. I simply was there to see the dogs and their living conditions. Nothing more.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

telsmith1 said:


> When I visited, nothing to do with the lawsuit, the AKC or clearances was brought up. I simply was there to see the dogs and their living conditions. Nothing more.


telsmith, I was not necessarily referring to you. I do recall that in a previous thread, a Forum member did relay his or her experience visiting the Schulz property, and did mention either being shown documents relating to our case, or it being discussed, and the information as it was posted to this forum was absolutely not an accurate representation of what has transpired.


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

Is today Groundhog day?


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## jaxson (Oct 9, 2007)

Correct me if I am wrong, but this Forum is about sharing of information relating to our goldens and the breed. Would it be unethical, illegal or otherwise wrong in the eyes of the members, to create a "Breeder Forum" tab. This would allow those of us with both positive and negative first hand experience to share those experiences on this site for all to see. Thus allowing prospective buyers the opportunity to gain additional information about the breeder.

Just a thought.

Jaxson


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

Pointgold said:


> telsmith, I was not necessarily referring to you. I do recall that in a previous thread, a Forum member did relay his or her experience visiting the Schulz property, and did mention either being shown documents relating to our case, or it being discussed, and the information as it was posted to this forum was absolutely not an accurate representation of what has transpired.


I know you weren't referring directly to me. I just wanted to clarify that nothing of that nature was shown or offered to be shown to me.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Jaxson, that sounds like a great idea. As long as Joe and those of us posting would not be at risk for sharing information of this nature? (breeder's sueing if something negative was said?)


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## jaxson (Oct 9, 2007)

Jellybean's mom said:


> Unfortunately, it appears that many customers were told similar stories that everything is legitimate, but the papers are not available yet.
> 
> The fact is that is a puppy is able to be registered by the AKC you would have received that paperowrk immediately and there is no legitimate reason it would not be available. Now we all know that due to the AKC ban, thses puppies are probably not able to be registered with the AKC.
> 
> ...


What would be the best way for an independent buyer, as in our cases, in obtaining certs?


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

You would have to wait until your puppy is over two years old, then do clearances yourself on your puppy.


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

jaxson said:


> What would be the best way for an independent buyer, as in our cases, in obtaining certs?
> 
> Jaxson


You can search the OFA website with the parents names or akc numbers, but that is only if they were sent in to the OFA.

Hips and elbows have to be done after 2 years of age. Heart, eyes, thyroid, and patella can all be done after one year.


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## jaxson (Oct 9, 2007)

Jenna,

I would _assume_ (and we all know what this stands for) that if the post is a first hand experience which cannot be deemed as heresay, no group of individuals should be held liable. It is when you get into people posting "well I heard or I was told" the stories become exaggerated and embelished as one person posted about the telephone game. 

Jaxson


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Right, that's what I think, too. But I know little about such things!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

BTW your pup in your avatar is a beautiful Golden


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Just as a suggestion, I might direct you to Ripoff Report: By Consumers, For Consumers

This site is a place for consumers to relay their experiences with businesses, and there are already dog breeders and other businesses within the pet industry nemed. The business has the opportunity to respond. I think that the site would take a hit if there were any legal questions, rather than individuals posting. I don't know if Joe, or the members, really want to go to "that place" where there could end up being infighting and hard feelings, much like my own situation when I first came to this Forum, hoping to educate members about the breeder in question. I was ultimately banned. I am grateful for having been given the opportunity to come back, and would hate to see the forum, or any individual, go through that kind of chaos again.
Just a suggestion.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Joe can actually take a hit from what already has transpired. The person may not win, but they can actually take up valuable time.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Kimm said:


> Joe can actually take a hit from what already has transpired. The person may not win, but they can actually take up valuable time.


I cannot imagine resources being available for any more lawsuits.
And yes, I am all too aware that anyone can sue for pretty much ANYthing.


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

The Ripoff Report website is a good suggestion. I searched for Golden Retrievers and found three hits. Looks like something I might try.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

tcww said:


> The Ripoff Report website is a good suggestion. I searched for Golden Retrievers and found three hits. Looks like something I might try.


We use The Ripoff Report a lot as a sales tool. A lot of our competitors are listed often...

I'd definitely say to post your own stories...

Somehow I missed this thread yesterday....


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## sophiesadiehannah's mom (Feb 11, 2007)

i am with telesmith on this one, i know kimberly only on a personal basis, she does care for the dogs and they seemed very well taken care of, but i absolutely know nothing about her breeding practices, clearences or paperwork. i bought a dog from lakeland get a golden and never recieved any paperwork, and have no idea if there are any clearences on my sadie. however i do have and had all the paperwork on sophie when i picked her up from telesmith.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Pointgold said:


> This is heartbreaking to me. When the time is right, I will share the nightmare I have been living since January of 2005 when I, along with the Flint Journal, their reporter, and a Leader Dogs for the blind puppy intake person were named in a lawsuit filed by GoldRocks. Whatever was shown to forum members who visited her in regards to that lawsuit was either not viewed accurately, or was shown to them completely out of context.
> Suffice it to say that her own attorney has attempted twice during the course of the suit to be removed as counsel. Interestingly, _that_ attorney is not the same one that was named as her counsel in the Tyrone Township's suit against her. Note also that counts against the four of us defendants have already been dismissed, leaving her responsible for the legal fees. My attorney is still attempting to complete depositon of Ms. Schulz, last week would have been the 7th continuation, however, Ms. Schulz did not show, yet again. This is delaying judgement on the last remaining count.
> My frustration has been twofold - one, my own situation and the thousands of dollars spent to defend against what amounts to a harassment suit and misuse of the judicial system, and second, my concerns for the dogs and buyers who have suffered from what they now know are false representations at best , and worse, the pain and expense of crippled and ill dogs.
> There have been days when I have wanted to scream "I TOLD YOU!!!" But those are far outnumbered by the days that I cry thinking that I did not do enough.
> All I can do now is pray that my personal nightmare is over soon, and to try my hardest to help those who need it with theirs.



And I never looked for lawsuits in other counties because I found the ones against you guys and their were no others listed. And I assumed wrongly (you know what they say) that this county was where they all would be. Gold rocks is on the border of 2 counties. 

And I agree that this information is imperative to have out there. Because so many people appear to be afraid of her (with good reason) that no one was willing to say anything bad and some even said good things. You have to wonder how many potential puppy buyers talked to local vets and rescue people and were told she was OK as I was.

Unfortunately I do not get the Tri-county Times. I'm just outside of their area. And I just pet sat for a couple tat live in Linden and they don't get it either. And I was 10 minutes from Goldrocks, which is why I went to speak to the neighbors. So I'd recommend talking to the Flint Journal & The Oakland Press. Both are quite popular in the area.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

sophie said:


> i am with telesmith on this one, i know kimberly only on a personal basis, she does care for the dogs and they seemed very well taken care of, but i absolutely know nothing about her breeding practices, clearences or paperwork. i bought a dog from lakeland get a golden and never recieved any paperwork, and have no idea if there are any clearences on my sadie. however i do have and had all the paperwork on sophie when i picked her up from telesmith.


I actually went out to talk to her neighbors. What we saw when we were there is actually the way things are whenever she has puppies that are ready to go and may have people coming by. Otherwise it is not. Though since she put up the new fencing the dogs have not run loose off her property.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

And as a side note for those of you that fear you may have health problems, Pet insurance could be a pocketbook saver. Especially if your pup has not been diagosed with anything yet. I know there are threads on it and I'm sure someone else can remember the name of the companies that cover hereditary issues. VPI does not cover congenital or pre-existing conditions, so Tinkerbell's heart was not covered but I still after the first year came out ahead. The insurance cost me about $330 for the year and I got reimbursed almost $400. If I had bought gone thru pone of the other companies it would have been reimbursed more than double that.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

This whole thing is sickening. I am utterly DISGUSTED. How any decent human being can profit off of churning out potentially unhealthy dogs is reprehensible. I am so sorry for all who have experienced this particular brand of greed. I pray that your dogs will grow up healthy, and for those who have already developed genetic issues, may they find comfort in your care.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

Marsha.....the company we use is Pet Care Insurance. They do cover genetic problems. They do not cover routine care. We have the Pet Care Gold 70% coverage.

Pet Insurance, Dog Insurance and Cat Insurance for Pet Health - PetCare Insurance


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## boyd114 (Mar 7, 2007)

very sorry to hear this!!


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

What a mess. As my Mom say, "There is something rotten in Denmark." Hope you get everything all worked out.


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

I am so sorry all of you had to suffer through this. Many of us have been suffering in silence for months, being to afraid to inform you of the truth.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

marshab1 said:


> I actually went out to talk to her neighbors. What we saw when we were there is actually the way things are whenever she has puppies that are ready to go and may have people coming by. Otherwise it is not. Though since she put up the new fencing the dogs have not run loose off her property.


 
This is an accurate statement. People visiting are only shown what GoldRocks wants them to see, which is most assuredly not what the neighbors and the township have been seeing for years.
The neighbors on one side actually put up 60' of privacy fence to prevent GoldRock's dogs from running into their yard. The dogs were jumping on their young children. They still deal with loose horses on a nearly daily basis. The entire property is _not _fenced, and there are issues with a garbage dumpster in the area where the horses are. The neighbor said that there seems to be less dogs there the last few days, but that they could be in the house. At first she thought they may be in the 5 stall barn, but "that usually means loud fighting type noises" and they haven't heard anything like that at all. She said that yesterday they heard barking, but it was just a couple of dogs, "not the big numbers that usually patrol the fenceline". When she went outside she said she saw 3 dogs and a litter of puppies (the first time she's seen puppies outside in a while). She has not seen anyone there but Gail. She also said that "the place gets quieter when the weather gets colder, but it has been quieter than normal".


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

This whole thing really bothers me on so many levels.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

vrocco1 said:


> I am so sorry all of you had to suffer through this. Many of us have been suffering in silence for months, being to afraid to inform you of the truth.


Then there's me, who was still pretty much in the dark....hoping for the best, but banning the wrong people who wanted nothing but getting the truth out.....


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

As a bit of a side note though.....when people asked why we had the long debate/discussion after Monomer first posted his findings.... It's stories like this we should hope to avoid. If one potential puppy buyer finds Monomer's thread prior to purchasing a puppy, was that thread not worth it?


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

RickGibbs said:


> Then there's me, who was still pretty much in the dark....hoping for the best, but banning the wrong people who wanted nothing but getting the truth out.....


You can't take all the blame. Many of us were. And I feel so bad for the puppy owners that did some research and talked to people and heard postive things before making their decision. I never would have posted publicly anything positive about her if I hadn't heard positive things from others.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

It's okay to go on an on with educational information. It's tiring to go on and on with other issues.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

RickGibbs said:


> Then there's me, who was still pretty much in the dark....hoping for the best, but banning the wrong people who wanted nothing but getting the truth out.....


What you were doing, Rick, was being a moderator. A tough job, if you do it right. Meaning trying to keep things on an even keel on the Forum, preventing conflicts, keeping members happy, and, at the same, staying true to yourself. You obviously were not the only one who fell for pictures of cute puppies wearing hats, and grandiose tales of wonderful, healthy dogs. 
The truth always finds it way, and admitting to having been wrong about something takes a very big person.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

RickGibbs said:


> As a bit of a side note though.....when people asked why we had the long debate/discussion after Monomer first posted his findings.... It's stories like this we should hope to avoid. If one potential puppy buyer finds Monomer's thread prior to purchasing a puppy, was that thread not worth it?


Absolutely. 

Remember that any dog bred by anyone can have hip or other problems. But the odds are greatly reduces with a low volume, careful breeder. I'd rather buy a puppy from a mistake litter or someone doing a one off with no clearances than support someone who constantly produces tons of litters without them- or worse yet, actually PURPOSELY and knowingly breeds dogs who actually FAILED OFA.

If someone didn't know better, and I went and bought a dog for $300 from this person, knowing full well it was a risk, that's one thing. But for someone to go pay $1200, or more, and get nothing... after doing homework and believing he was buying the best of the best with all certifications. That is just so wrong!

I paid $300 for Keira and I got MORE than the recent posters here got frm GRM- I got a healthy dog, no clearances- but I got AKC papers, all shot records, health certificate from a vet, a six generation pedigree, etc. And my dog has good hips, no problems at all.

These people can't even get their dogs' papers.

Just sad


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Remember that any dog bred by anyone can have hip or other problems. But the odds are greatly reduces with a low volume, careful breeder. I'd rather buy a puppy from a mistake litter or someone doing a one off with no clearances than support someone who constantly produces tons of litters without them- or worse yet, actually PURPOSELY and knowingly breeds dogs who actually FAILED OFA.
> 
> ...


It is sad. In my opinion, there is no excuse for not having the papers when the puppy goes to its new owner. The litter paperwork usually only take 7-10 days to get once you file for it. I have never and will never promise someone papers or health records. They will always get them when they get their pup. They will also get copies of ALL clearances, certificates, papers on both parents!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I guess it is hard to provide papers if one has no AKC privilages. She could at least stop advertising them as AKC, though, and switch to CKC.


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> I guess it is hard to provide papers if one has no AKC privilages. She could at least stop advertising them as AKC, though, and switch to CKC.


From what GRM has told me, she is using a registry called API? I have never heard of that one.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

API... I thought that was some kind of insurance lol... I'll have to google it

But she still has AKCgoldenpuppies on her site


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

The only API I can find is an animal rights group- not sure how extreme they are, but I doubt she'd support them. Can't find anything about a regisitry.


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> API... I thought that was some kind of insurance lol... I'll have to google it
> 
> But she still has AKCgoldenpuppies on her site


I know. :no::no:

I wonder if she meant APRI.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Ah, yes, this America's Pet Registry, Inc.:


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Ah, yes, this America's Pet Registry, Inc.:


That would be APRI. I know that she has told people "API". I wonder if it is the same (I would _assume _so...) 
Wow. This "registry" was started by an insurance agency. Sounds even "better" than the (fake) CKC. 
Man, people will fall for ANYthing if it's on the internet with a fancy website.

Grrrrr...:no:


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Ah, yes, this America's Pet Registry, Inc.:


APRI accepts all AKC dog registration certificates at face value *if the breeder/owner is in good standing with AKC.* The AKC dog can be dual registered with APRI and any litters produced may then be registered with APRI.

Very interesting.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

BTW, I clicked the link to apply for APRI breeder number (no, I don't want to apply, I'm just curious) and they ask to know what other registries have banned you! I wonder what she said on her application LOL


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> What you were doing, Rick, was being a moderator. A tough job, if you do it right. Meaning trying to keep things on an even keel on the Forum, preventing conflicts, keeping members happy, and, at the same, staying true to yourself. You obviously were not the only one who fell for pictures of cute puppies wearing hats, and grandiose tales of wonderful, healthy dogs.
> The truth always finds it way, and admitting to having been wrong about something takes a very big person.


Not every one falls for this sort of thing. I keep asking someone a question and the person evades an answer. That tells me a lot and it is there right This is unrelated to GRMom. 

It is what is _not_ said sometimes, that brings clarity.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

telsmith1 said:


> APRI accepts all AKC dog registration certificates at face value *if the breeder/owner is in good standing with AKC.* The AKC dog can be dual registered with APRI and any litters produced may then be registered with APRI.
> 
> Very interesting.


Also interesting to me is that this "registry" advertises events and "shows" - and they are all right smack dab in the heart of puppy mill country - Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas...


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Kimm said:


> Not every one falls for this sort of thing. I keep asking someone a question and the person evades an answer. That tells me a lot and it is there right This is unrelated to GRMom.
> 
> It is what is _not_ said sometimes, that brings clarity.


Very true. And while your statement may be unrelated to GRM, it definately applies.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> BTW, I clicked the link to apply for APRI breeder number (no, I don't want to apply, I'm just curious) and they ask to know what other registries have banned you! I wonder what she said on her application LOL


If this APRI is assuming that a person/breeder has been banned by another licensing agengy, why would they want this person/breeder in their agency? This would tell me that APRI isn't what its cracked up to be either. If an agency such as AKC has banned someone than I would think there was good reason and I certainly wouldn't want that person in MY registry.

As for how long it takes to get puppy papers: When I picked up Jazzy her breeder had all papers already in a booklet for me. We did the registration together as he explained it to me (I already knew all about registration but this is how he does things). He went through all the certifications of both parents and explained them in detail. He went through about 30 to 40 minutes with the paperwork. When we picked up Flirt and Dakota from the breeder, same thing. Paperwrok was in a folder and ready to go!

Jazzys Mom


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

WOW!! I think this APRI registry is a GREAT IDEA!!! Its the registry for all the bad breeders... what a resource! One could just simply check this registry to see who NOT to deal with and save some time. Thank You APRI!!!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Yup- Epic and Rigby's breeders didn't explain it to me as I had had many AKC dogs before, but it was all provided- health certificates, pedigree, AKC papers, pictures of mom and dad, information on how they feel puppies should be raised, sample of the current food, records of the shots, instructions for how they suggest vaccinating (I happen to agree with them- minimal and later is better, so I followed), etc...


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

monomer said:


> WOW!! I think this APRI registry is a GREAT IDEA!!! Its the registry for all the bad breeders... what a resource! One could just simply check this registry to see who NOT deal with and save some time. Thank You APRI!!!


LOL!!! Good point!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Hell even KEIRA'S breeder, a BYB with ONE litter in her ENTIRE life, gave me AKC papers, instructions, shot records, a collar, and a clean, healthy puppy free of all parasites.


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## jaxson (Oct 9, 2007)

This past October I was with an old friend in Ohio who also has Goldens. We were talking about my dilemma and the BS I was fed. He was telling me all about his breeder and the wonderfull service and follow up they provide as well as "family reunions". My friend then produces a three ring binder with sections. This person, upon delivery of the puppy, provides each buyer a vast amount of information which includes complete lineage of both parents, parent certs, AKC papers, health tips, recommended vets in their area and on and on.

I was completely in awe and disappointed at the same time.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

This is normal procedure for legit. breeders. I did this with the 2 litters I bred. I even put in info, web sites and such for raw feeding - pros and cons. Also put in a list of good Golden Retriever books, a blank subscription to Golden retriever review if they wanted to order it, recipes for homemade dog cookies, tips on crating and housebreaking as well as all the above.

Jazzys Mom


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## Nan (Jul 21, 2007)

Now I'm worried about the dogs still in her care!!!


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

RickGibbs said:


> Then there's me, who was still pretty much in the dark....hoping for the best, but banning the wrong people who wanted nothing but getting the truth out.....


Well, if I remember correctly, I was a bit mad that night also.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

It's a tough job you (all of you mods) have, and I think you all do a good, fair job. And like someone else said, admitting it later that you may have made a mistake is even harder. No matter who you are!


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

Nan said:


> Now I'm worried about the dogs still in her care!!!



I really don't think you need to worry about the dogs she maintains, except that some female might produce seven litters. I worry about the 100's of puppies sold every year.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Agreed. I see no reason to think the dogs she has are not cared for. Clearly I have never seen all of them, but they look fed and maintained.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Agreed. I see no reason to think the dogs she has are not cared for. Clearly I have never seen all of them, but they look fed and maintained.


They most assuredly are fed. They need to be in some sort of condition to produce the numbers of litters that they do. 

As to the nice puppy packs and information that "legit" breeders send with their puppies, it begins even before a sale. When someone inquires about a puppy, we send photos and pedigrees and links to health clearances via email, so that the person has something concrete to help them base a decision on. Then the questions and the relationship begins if it is decided to move forward. As I understand it, several forum members were concerned that GoldRocks wouldn't proved pedigree information from the start. Perhaps she didn't want that information traced to show no AKC reg, no health clearances, full brother/sister breedings, underaged dogs being bred, etc. It might have prevented sales.

MarshaB1 - I am in Grand Rapids for the dog shows, and I spoke with Mike Pickard this afternoon (Judy Layne's son, of Trailsend.) They do NOT endorse GoldRocks, and are mortified by the association. As I stated, I helped Mike at his first show, and have watched him become a good handler. He has been working very hard to repair his mother's reputation, not an easy undertaking for anyone. They have learned a lot, and are striving to do things right. Had they known then what they know now, they would not have sold dogs to GoldRocks. They now use limited registrations so as to prevent dogs they sell from being bred indiscriminately. Mike is very open to gaining as much knowledge as he can, and teaching his Mom. He assured me that they no longer have ANY association with her, as did Cathy Gaca of Bear Creek, who stated that she has been on the receiving end of Ms. Schulz wrath for not recommending her. The intimidation/threat factor may well have been behind any "recommendations" that you said breeders and others had made for GoldRocks.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Pointgold said:


> They most assuredly are fed. They need to be in some sort of condition to produce the numbers of litters that they do.
> 
> As to the nice puppy packs and information that "legit" breeders send with their puppies, it begins even before a sale. When someone inquires about a puppy, we send photos and pedigrees and links to health clearances via email, so that the person has something concrete to help them base a decision on. Then the questions and the relationship begins if it is decided to move forward. As I understand it, several forum members were concerned that GoldRocks wouldn't proved pedigree information from the start. Perhaps she didn't want that information traced to show no AKC reg, no health clearances, full brother/sister breedings, underaged dogs being bred, etc. It might have prevented sales.
> 
> MarshaB1 - I am in Grand Rapids for the dog shows, and I spoke with Mike Pickard this afternoon (Judy Layne's son, of Trailsend.) They do NOT endorse GoldRocks, and are mortified by the association. As I stated, I helped Mike at his first show, and have watched him become a good handler. He has been working very hard to repair his mother's reputation, not an easy undertaking for anyone. They have learned a lot, and are striving to do things right. Had they known then what they know now, they would not have sold dogs to GoldRocks. They now use limited registrations so as to prevent dogs they sell from being bred indiscriminately. Mike is very open to gaining as much knowledge as he can, and teaching his Mom. He assured me that they no longer have ANY association with her, as did Cathy Gaca of Bear Creek, who stated that she has been on the receiving end of Ms. Schulz wrath for not recommending her. The intimidation/threat factor may well have been behind any "recommendations" that you said breeders and others had made for GoldRocks.


THANK YOU! for taking the time to check on this for me. I think I may give him a call. I'd love to come out and meet Tinkerbell's father. I don't hold them responsible for her heart problems. And they are only about 20 minutes away. How great would that be for a breeder.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Pointgold said:


> ...as did Cathy Gaca of Bear Creek...


Yea, that's Sophie's breeder! Hope Cathy is in better health... the last time I saw her (last month) she was battling pneumonia.


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

We visited Bear Creek...I love her male, Rudy, what a beautiful guy!

Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


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## dave&sandikliza (Sep 12, 2007)

*Gold Rocks Kalli*

Kalli seems to be doing fine. She is a pretty calm puppy, at least so far! Her second vet visit shows that she still has Coccidiosis. She is on her second round of medication. Wonder where this came from?? In reference to API Registration, those were the exact initials put on the vet information that was emailed to us. Has anyone used Field River Ranch food? What is your opinion of it? Kalli seems to like it and it was recommended by GRM.But we had to do the research on how to order it of course.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Phoebe said:


> We visited Bear Creek...I love her male, Rudy, what a beautiful guy!
> 
> Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


Sophie's mom (Kate) is a litter-mate to Rudy. Cathy has some really nice looking dogs up and coming... many of them have a real 'meaty' look to them. Sophie has always had a thick neck and huge shoulders (with some 'real' muscle underneath there)... so much so, we took to affectionately calling her the little tank  Just lately it appears her head has started to grow in and she now seems to be balancing out quite well. She's even managing to grow into those big ears of hers. She's actually becoming quite attractive... I should take a few photos and post.



dave&sandikliza said:


> ...Her second vet visit shows that she still has Coccidiosis. She is on her second round of medication. Wonder where this came from?? ...


Its generally said that it comes from unclean living conditions. Basically where you have a large number of dogs (other 'versions' of the parasite also lives in horses, cattle, birds, etc but tends to be species specific though there are exceptions) allowed to roam and poop in places where puppies have access to and the poop in those areas is not picked-up on a regular basis. The oocysts are spread through the poop of infected dogs who are stressed for some reason... these oocysts can live in the soil and water (a pond for example) for a very long time then if a puppy should mouth, eat or drink anything contaminated with the oocysts, they will become infected and are also now carriers.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

dave&sandikliza said:


> Kalli seems to be doing fine. She is a pretty calm puppy, at least so far! Her second vet visit shows that she still has Coccidiosis. She is on her second round of medication. Wonder where this came from?? In reference to API Registration, those were the exact initials put on the vet information that was emailed to us. Has anyone used Field River Ranch food? What is your opinion of it? Kalli seems to like it and it was recommended by GRM.But we had to do the research on how to order it of course.


I am so sorry your puppy has Coccidia...I am just stunned to be honest. If I paid $1200 for a puppy and it had coccidia......don't get me started...

Anyway, Flint River Ranch is decent food - but does contain wheat. Is GRM a distributor? I used to use it for years, but have since found better choices. FRR isn't cheap and there are better foods out there for the money.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

You asked where the coccidia came from. Is this a sanitation issue? I understand most usually it comes from the mother's feces, is this true? Is it true that most dogs carry it but only dogs that aren't immune (for whatever reason, including young puppies) are susceptible? 

How is coccidia prevented?


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Coccidia is not at all uncommon in Golden babies and, even if treated, it can break out again when the puppy is stressed (when they move into a new home for example). If a puppy had coccidia in the litter, it should be explained to the new owners, so they and their vet can watch for it.

I keep my puppies very clean but have had issues with cocicidia over the years. There are a lot of pigeons in the area (barns), as well as ducks in the ponds, so there is a lot of exposure. Just as with worms, it can become encysted in the mother dog and break out when she is under stress.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

So do you test puppies for coccidia? How do you know it's present so you can alert the new owners?


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

I believe the best practice is to treat all the dogs in the kennels at the same time (all well as the premises) if any single dog or pup has been found to be infected, otherwise it will be a never ending battle as they will continue to be re-infected with the parasite. I'll have to look it up (I did my research about 14 years ago when our little American Eskimo pup was diagnosed with it).


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Jo Ellen said:


> So do you test puppies for coccidia? How do you know it's present so you can alert the new owners?


The diarrhea (or stools) have to be observed under a microscope to identify the oocysts... only then can a positive diagnosis of coccidia be made. My best understanding is that oocysts are not that easy to find and so sometimes the diagnosis is made if its a puppy and the symptoms 'fit' even though oocysts were not actually found.


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## Sunny Delight (Mar 10, 2007)

Tahnee GR said:


> Coccidia is not at all uncommon in Golden babies and, even if treated, it can break out again when the puppy is stressed (when they move into a new home for example). If a puppy had coccidia in the litter, it should be explained to the new owners, so they and their vet can watch for it.
> 
> I keep my puppies very clean but have had issues with cocicidia over the years. There are a lot of pigeons in the area (barns), as well as ducks in the ponds, so there is a lot of exposure. Just as with worms, it can become encysted in the mother dog and break out when she is under stress.


Well that makes me feel a lot better about the coccicia. Sunny's breeder was great and I saw the environment twice and it was all clean, but about 4 pups from her litter of 10 (she being one of them) had coccidia. On a positive note, I was just about to call the breeder about a day or two of diarrhea, when she called me to let me know that some of the pups had it. The meds worked well and we've never seen it again. 

And after hearing so many promises of "paperwork to come", I'm very glad that I got all clearances and AKC paperwork right then and there when we paid and picked her up. It took me about 10 months to fill it in, but at least I had it!


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

With such a large number of dogs though, it would seem very difficult, if not impossible, to control. Do you think?


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Coccidia is unmistakable! Very smelly stinky poops-ugh! I always run stool samples to the vet and ask them to check for coccidia as well as worms. It is a separate test.

And if not treated, the pups are often much smaller than they should be for their age. I saw one litter that was 6 weeks old but when I first saw them, I thought they were between 2-3 weeks old. When they stood up and barked, I almost fainted!

Once they were treated, they eventually caught up to where they should be in size.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Oh yes, I think it would be very hard to control with large numbers of dogs. If I have puppies with it, both they and their mother are treated. It presents much more of a problem for puppies than for healthy adults. I sterilize the whelping pen, make sure the environment is kept super clean, and don't allow the other dogs around until the treatment is done.


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## JimS (Jan 2, 2007)

dave&sandikliza said:


> Kalli seems to be doing fine. She is a pretty calm puppy, at least so far! Her second vet visit shows that she still has Coccidiosis. She is on her second round of medication. Wonder where this came from?? In reference to API Registration, those were the exact initials put on the vet information that was emailed to us. Has anyone used Field River Ranch food? What is your opinion of it? Kalli seems to like it and it was recommended by GRM.But we had to do the research on how to order it of course.


Coccidia is nothing to worry about. It's rampant out here. Both Kali's and Chase's breeder caught and treated it...but it recurred in each of them, most likely due to the stress of a new environment. The treatment is easy and effective. Kali loved her Alban. Chase was given pills (can't remember the drug)...but loved the cheese they were wrapped in.

If the food you mentioned is Flint River Ranch, it is a very good food. It was on the Whole Dog Journals top food lists for years, although it's fallen from thta list. It's sold by a multi-level marketing scheme that's a bit off the wall. We fed it to Kali for quite a while, and she did great on it. Unfortunately, the serving size for weight maintenance with her was so tiny that the poor thing was always starving. We ended up supplementing with a cup of frozen green beans during her dinner meal.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Here is something I just 'lifted' from what appeared to be a reputable and knowledgeable website:

_"How is coccidiosis prevented or controlled?_
Because coccidia is spread by the feces of carrier animals, it is very important to practice strict sanitation. All fecal material should be removed. Housing needs to be such that food and water cannot become contaminated with feces. Clean water should be provided at all times. Most disinfectants do not work well against coccidia; incineration of the feces, and steam cleaning, immersion in boiling water or a 10% ammonia solution are the best methods to kill coccidia. Coccidia can withstand freezing.

_What is the treatment of coccidiosis?_
Fortunately coccidiosis is treatable. Drugs such as sulfadimethoxine (Albon), trimethoprim-sulfadiazine (Tribrissen) and amprolium (Corid) have all been effective in the treatment and prevention of coccidia. Because these drugs do not kill the organisms, but rather inhibit their reproduction capabilities, elimination of coccidia from the intestine is not rapid. By stopping the ability of the protozoa to reproduce, time is allowed for the puppy's own immunity to develop and remove the organisms. Drug treatments of five or more days are usually required."


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

There is a lot of misinformation about coccidia. If untreated, or persistent in young puppies it can be dangerous. 
Evidently, there is a problem with this at GoldRocks. I have a friend who works with someone who purchased a dog from them. He apparently boards the dog there when he travels, and is just now questioning why, every time the dog comes home, it has a cough and "infection". The "infection consists of bloody diarhhea. I understand that for some dogs, boarding is a stressful situation, and stress colitis could be an issue.

As an aside, Flint River Ranch food, as someone mentioned, is a pyramid marketing type distribution. I personally would not choose a food that is not readily available wherever I am. 


From the Pet Ed site:

What are coccidia? 
Coccidia are small protozoans (one-celled organisms) that multiply in the intestinal tracts of dogs and cats, most commonly in puppies and kittens less than six months of age, in adult animals whose immune system is suppressed, or in animals who are stressed in other ways (e.g.; change in ownership, other disease present). 
In dogs and cats, most coccidia are of the genus called _Isospora_. _Isospora canis_ and _I. ohioensis_ are the species most often encountered in dogs. Regardless of which species is present, we generally refer to the disease as coccidiosis. As a puppy ages, he tends to develop a natural immunity to the effects of coccidia. As an adult, he may carry coccidia in his intestines, and shed the cyst in the feces, but experience no ill effects.

How are coccidia transmitted? A puppy is not born with the coccidia organisms in his intestine. However, once born, the puppy is frequently exposed to his mother's feces, and if the mother is shedding the infective cysts in her feces, then the young animals will likely ingest them and coccidia will develop within their intestines. Since young puppies, usually those less than six months of age, have no immunity to coccidia, the organisms reproduce in great numbers and parasitize the young animal's intestines. Oftentimes, this has severe effects.
From exposure to the coccidia in feces to the onset of the illness is about 13 days. Most puppies who are ill from coccidia are, therefore, two weeks of age and older. Although most infections are the result of spread from the mother, this is not always the case. Any infected puppy or kitten is contagious to other puppies or kittens. In breeding facilities, shelters, animal hospitals, etc., it is wise to isolate those infected from those that are not.

What are the symptoms of coccidiosis? The primary sign of an animal suffering with coccidiosis is diarrhea. The diarrhea may be mild to severe depending on the level of infection. Blood and mucous may be present, especially in advanced cases. Severely affected animals may also vomit, lose their appetite, become dehydrated, and in some instances, die from the disease.
Most infected puppies encountered by the authors are in the four to twelve week age group. The possibility of coccidiosis should always be considered when a loose stool or diarrhea is encountered in this age group. A microscopic fecal exam by a veterinarian will detect the cysts confirming a diagnosis.

What are the risks? Although many cases are mild, it is not uncommon to see severe, bloody diarrhea result in dehydration and even death. This is most common in animals who are ill or infected with other parasites, bacteria, or viruses. Coccidiosis is very contagious, especially among young puppies. Entire kennels may become contaminated, with puppies of many age groups simultaneously affected.

What is the treatment of coccidiosis? It should be mentioned that stress plays a role in the development of coccidiosis. It is not uncommon for a seemingly healthy puppy to arrive at his new home and develop diarrhea several days later leading to a diagnosis of coccidia. If the puppy has been at the new home for less than thirteen days, then he had coccidia before he arrived. Remember, the incubation period (from exposure to illness) is about thirteen days. If the puppy has been with his new owner several weeks, then the exposure to coccidia most likely occurred after the animal arrived at the new home.

Fortunately, coccidiosis is treatable. Drugs such as sulfadimethoxine (Albon®) and trimethoprim-sulfadiazine (Tribrissen®) have been effective in the treatment and prevention of coccidia. Because these drugs do not kill the organisms, but rather inhibit their reproduction capabilities, elimination of coccidia from the intestine is not rapid. By stopping the ability of the protozoa to reproduce, time is allowed for the puppy's own immunity to develop and remove the organisms. How is coccidiosis prevented or controlled? Because coccidia is spread by the feces of carrier animals, it is very important to practice strict sanitation. All fecal material should be removed. Housing needs to be such that food and water cannot become contaminated with feces. Clean water should be provided at all times. Most disinfectants do not work well against coccidia; incineration of the feces, and steam cleaning, immersion in boiling water, or a 10% ammonia solution are the best methods to kill coccidia. Coccidia can withstand freezing.
Cockroaches and flies can mechanically carry coccidia from one place to another. Mice and other animals can ingest the coccidia and when killed and eaten by a dog, for instance, can infect the dog. Therefore, insect and rodent control is very important in preventing coccidiosis.
The coccidia species of dogs and cats do not infect humans.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I have known entire litters to die from it- from a good breeder. It can be very dangerous.

I treat all new rescue dogs, especially puppies, for it automatically.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

It appears that "GoldRocksMom" has visited the forum at least as recently as Monday. I am wondering if she has contacted either Dave & Sandi Kliza, TCCW, or Jaxson?


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

I'd like to know what became of the senior golden found very close to her house this week.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

marshab1 said:


> I'd like to know what became of the senior golden found very close to her house this week.


I had not heard about this. Is it thought that it might be one of her dogs?


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

There's a post on here about a senior golden found in Livingston county. And from the location given it would be pretty close to her.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...enior-female-livingston-county-howell-mi.html


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Well that doesn't make me feel good at all. I had not put the locations together till you pointed it out. The Petfinder posting is no longer available, which leads me to believe the dog was reclaimed by it's owner since it would not have been available for adoption until 11/19.


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## Chaucer and Mom (Feb 26, 2007)

monomer said:


> Sophie's mom (Kate) is a litter-mate to Rudy. Cathy has some really nice looking dogs up and coming... many of them have a real 'meaty' look to them. Sophie has always had a thick neck and huge shoulders (with some 'real' muscle underneath there)... so much so, we took to affectionately calling her the little tank  Just lately it appears her head has started to grow in and she now seems to be balancing out quite well. She's even managing to grow into those big ears of hers. She's actually becoming quite attractive... I should take a few photos and post.
> 
> 
> Its generally said that it comes from unclean living conditions. Basically where you have a large number of dogs (other 'versions' of the parasite also lives in horses, cattle, birds, etc but tends to be species specific though there are exceptions) allowed to roam and poop in places where puppies have access to and the poop in those areas is not picked-up on a regular basis. The oocysts are spread through the poop of infected dogs who are stressed for some reason... these oocysts can live in the soil and water (a pond for example) for a very long time then if a puppy should mouth, eat or drink anything contaminated with the oocysts, they will become infected and are also now carriers.


 
Chaucer's breeder had very unclean living conditions. I should have been willing to give up my $200 deposit when I saw them, and walked away. But I didn't. Chaucer came to me with a horrendous case of coccidia as well as whipworm, giardia and roundworm. He was a sick little puppy. I spent over $1000 the first year on vet bills. This past year I spent almost the same amount since he had severe pain and limping. He did have panosteitis; but also has luxating patella.

To add insult to injury, I've never received AKC papers for him. Originally the dam was co-owned by a large Canadian kennel and my breeder. But the ownership has since passed to his breeder; and I still haven't gotten papers. I've been given every excuse. 

I wrote to the breeder who had given me Chaucer's breeder's name. The woman was totally apologetic. Said she had heard another person who had a dog from this litter had returned the dog because it had so many problems; and would never recommend her again. I also wrote to the kennel that co-owned the dam to tell them the story and got no response. 

The breeder lives in MA and I live in CT. I'd love to get my $1300 back. But I can't imagine how. 

BTW... I never checked to see if Chaucer's breeder was a member of the YGRC. And of course she wasn't. Later the breeder, herself, actually told me she was asked to leave because of the living conditions in her house.

I've had eight dogs, have bred a champion Westie, had two goldens from show litters and I was still blindsided by grief and impatience. I've learned an expensive lesson.

I'd love to mention all names. What is the liability in doing so?? Anyone know?


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

The truth about who you purchased your dog from is not actionable.


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## Chaucer and Mom (Feb 26, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> The truth about who you purchased your dog from is not actionable.


 
Are the things I say assuming they're true? I would think not.


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## dave&sandikliza (Sep 12, 2007)

*No response*



Pointgold said:


> It appears that "GoldRocksMom" has visited the forum at least as recently as Monday. I am wondering if she has contacted either Dave & Sandi Kliza, TCCW, or Jaxson?


We have had absolutely no response from Gold Rocks Mom despite our many attempts to contact her. We would certainly like to hear what kind of explanation she has for the past repeated falsehoods she has given us regarding our promised paperwork.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

dave&sandikliza said:


> We have had absolutely no response from Gold Rocks Mom despite our many attempts to contact her. We would certainly like to hear what kind of explanation she has for the past repeated falsehoods she has given us regarding our promised paperwork.


It's bizarre to think that she is coming to the Forum, obviously knowing that puppy buyers are attempting to contact her, yet no word at all...


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## Wrigleysmom (Dec 30, 2006)

If she has time to check out the forum she should have time to e-mail or pick up the phone to contact dave and sandi, don't ya think? I ran a daycare business for 8 years, liscensed with DHS, Child Care Recource and Referral, and Sieda, believe me, I know what a pain paperwork is. But I got it done, especially if people kept asking me for it!!!(Anytime you are liscenced in a government agency, there is TONS of paperwork!) So I can't understand the procrastination. Especially if people are paying 1200 per dog, that is almost as much as I made in a month!!!! Maybe having *too many *litters just got over her head and she is just overwhelmed. Not that this is an excuse, I mean I feel bad about her mom, but a business is a business. Maybe she has learned something about biting off too much to chew.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Wrigleysmom said:


> If she has time to check out the forum she should have time to e-mail or pick up the phone to contact dave and sandi, don't ya think? I ran a daycare business for 8 years, liscensed with DHS, Child Care Recource and Referral, and Sieda, believe me, I know what a pain paperwork is. But I got it done, especially if people kept asking me for it!!!(Anytime you are liscenced in a government agency, there is TONS of paperwork!) So I can't understand the procrastination. Especially if people are paying 1200 per dog, that is almost as much as I made in a month!!!! Maybe having *too many *litters just got over her head and she is just overwhelmed. Not that this is an excuse, I mean I feel bad about her mom, but a business is a business. Maybe she has learned something about biting off too much to chew.


One would think. And, if there were actually paperwork TO be done, that would keep her busy. However, since there cannot be AKC papers, and clearances don't seem to exist, the time it takes to cruise/lurk on the Forum certainly could be used to contact the puppy buyers desparately looking for answers. Those buyers have had to resort to legal action. Process servers, who have told those filing suit that they are "very familiar" with her, have been given permission by the court to post the notices as she does not respond to letters or calls. She does not attend the township meetings. My attorney has now filed for the _eighth _re-notice of continuing deposition.
As frustrating as the situation is for those of us involved, I cannot help but wonder how in the world a person with 52 dogs, many horses, and who knows how many cats, as well as an unusually large number of lawsuits pending, can continue day to day?


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

*Response*

None here, either.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Why do you suppose she still comes here? Obviously not to make contact with anyone or to repair her reputation. 

Very curious.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

tcww said:


> None here, either.


As a breeder, I would at the very least congratulate you on having earned the CGC with Murphy, who she bred.

I take great delight in the accomplishments of dogs that I have produced, and am as excited as the owners.

And given that Murphy is one of very few other, if any, GoldRocks dogs with any sort of verifiabe certificate or title, I'd be singing Hallelujah!

Well, TCWW, you know the Forum community was thrilled for you...


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Probably to see what is written- can't say I blame her there. But I dearly wish she'd make contact with her buyers.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Yes we were. Murphy is a darling boy!


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

*Ignorance*

I really wonder how many GoldRocks customers are out there, who either because of ignorance or unwillingness to investigate a bit deeper, are simply happy (or unhappy) with their pets. I found this forum because I did a Google search for "Goldrocks", and then searched on the forum itself for the same thing. Otherwise, I would have still been in the dark.

That being said, there are probably more GoldRocks dogs who have achieved some sort of training milestone, but they simply haven't been published or announced by their owners.

Just sent in my check to the AKC for the Murph's CGC Certificate yesterday, and he's also getting a collar tag that I'm sure he'll wear with pride......if he doesn't chew it up first.

Thanks to all of you on the forum who have been supportive of this very interesting journey. The latest is that I've sent a registered letter to Gold Rocks, and barring any response, I'll probably file with the Michigan Attorney General's Consumer Fraud Division. Probably won't get any response from that either, but at least I'll have the satisfaction of having done the right thing.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Probably to see what is written- can't say I blame her there. But I dearly wish she'd make contact with her buyers.


If I remember correctly, not that this concerns anyone, she mentioned printing all of this out. 

They give out tags for the CGC Cert's now? I didn't get one for my guys. Congrats by the way.


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

*CGC Tag*

There's a link on the AKC CGC web page. You can order two different sizes in either plastic or metal. They're $6.00 each.

What's to print out when a person's own actions dictate the response? Had I, and others, been treated fairly, none of this would have transpired.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

tcww said:


> There's a link on the AKC CGC web page. You can order two different sizes in either plastic or metal. They're $6.00 each.
> 
> What's to print out when a person's own actions dictate the response? Had I, and others, been treated fairly, none of this would have transpired.


Thank you for that info. My two got their CGC certs about 4 years ago. I'll have to find their paperwork.

I hear you about the printouts. I complained about Shadow's breeder and even removed her name from k9data. People can pull you into court for _nothing_ knowing they can never win. I don't have the time for that, plus my hair is already turning gray...


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

At least you have hair!


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

tcww said:


> At least you have hair!


LOL, this is very true! How or why I still have hair ~ I do not know. :uhoh:


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Kimm said:


> Thank you for that info. My two got their CGC certs about 4 years ago. I'll have to find their paperwork.
> 
> I hear you about the printouts. I complained about Shadow's breeder and even removed her name from k9data. People can pull you into court for _nothing_ knowing they can never win. I don't have the time for that, plus my hair is already turning gray...


Well, I'm already IN court with her, and all that she could possibly print out from this Forum could do would be to validate my defense. 
Nothing that has been written on the forum by anyone has been anything but the truth, with the exception of some of her own posts. TCWW would have had his "papers" LONG ago, as, according to her own post, they were "on their way". Dave & Sandi Kliza, ditto. Jaxson - ditto. I'm sure there are more. There are certainly more that have been succesful in a court of law against her. Remember, she had written on this forum that the AKC situation was "being fixed" according to her. And there was going to be a flattering article published by the Tri-County Times. She had said several years ago that there was going to be a retraction published by the Flint Journal, instead, her charges against them were dismissed. Haven't seen any of it as yet.
My concern is, and always has been, the dogs.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I most certainly care about dogs. There is no doubt about that.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Kimm said:


> I most certainly care about dogs. There is no doubt about that.


I think that goes without question, Kimm.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

tcww said:


> I really wonder how many GoldRocks customers are out there, who either because of ignorance or unwillingness to investigate a bit deeper, are simply happy (or unhappy) with their pets. I found this forum because I did a Google search for "Goldrocks", and then searched on the forum itself for the same thing. Otherwise, I would have still been in the dark.
> 
> That being said, there are probably more GoldRocks dogs who have achieved some sort of training milestone, but they simply haven't been published or announced by their owners.
> 
> ...


I've met a few Goldrocks dog owners and they were happy. And the dogs looked good. And most of them probably got their AKC papers because it was sometime before the AKC banned her. So why would they complain.

Can I also suggest filing a report with the Better Business Bureau. She is already listed on there. And she may be able to explain away a couple of complaints against her. But if all the owners that are unhappy made a complaint, you can't explain that many away. And many people not knowing as much as we do may still think to look at the BBB to see if their are any complaints.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

marshab1 said:


> I've met a few Goldrocks dog owners and they were happy. And the dogs looked good. And most of them probably got their AKC papers because it was sometime before the AKC banned her. So why would they complain.
> 
> Can I also suggest filing a report with the Better Business Bureau. She is already listed on there. And she may be able to explain away a couple of complaints against her. But if all the owners that are unhappy made a complaint, you can't explain that many away. And many people not knowing as much as we do may still think to look at the BBB to see if their are any complaints.


And make use of www.ripoffreport.com
There is already a complaint.
LOTS of people access that site.


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

*Update*

As of this evening, USPS says they attempted to deliver my letter and left a message to pick it up at the post office.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

tcww said:


> As of this evening, USPS says they attempted to deliver my letter and left a message to pick it up at the post office.


:crossfing Here's hoping (against all hope)


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## dave&sandikliza (Sep 12, 2007)

*your letter sent*



Pointgold said:


> :crossfing Here's hoping (against all hope)


Let us know if the letter you sent is ever received or picked up.As you know letters to her never seem to get through, We wonder why?! Could it be that she simply could care less about her client's and their puppies welfare, and if this is not the case, then she owes us an explanation at the very least. Why no returned calls or answers to Emails or letters.We repeat: Why? It is certainly amazing to us that this fiasco can go on and on with no government agency to realistically do anything to support us. The bureaucracy involved is mind boggling. Since we have have heard absolutely nothing we can only assume more puppies are being sold under the same circumstances, with no paperwork and no clearances for hip and or other prone to health problems. There is something seriously wrong in this system and unfortunately it is the pups who are likely to suffer the most. That remains our foremost concern...


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

Like many other situations, I think the saying Caveat Emptor applies. We researched pretty long and hard, but we missed some things that are now painfully apparent. Even with iron-clad guarantees, some things go awry.

There are many unregulated industries, and this is one of them. Unfortunately, there are also many unscrupulous business owners, whether regulated or not.

I don't know if there'll ever be a truly happy ending to this, but I have the comfort of knowing that The Murph is happy and as healthy as I and the vet can ascertain.

As I said, I'll keep everyone continuously posted.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

dave&sandikliza said:


> It is certainly amazing to us that this fiasco can go on and on with no government agency to realistically do anything to support us. The bureaucracy involved is mind boggling. Since we have have heard absolutely nothing we can only assume more puppies are being sold under the same circumstances, with no paperwork and no clearances for hip and or other prone to health problems. There is something seriously wrong in this system and unfortunately it is the pups who are likely to suffer the most. That remains our foremost concern...


Look closely at the information your were supplied prior to purchase and compare that to reality. (AKC Reg vs API Reg, etc.) If there are straight forward "Provable" misrepresentations, you should be able to file a criminal charges (theft by swindle) with law enforcement and have her arrested. 

If you didn't get anything in writing to prove your point, you're SOL, and you may as well take this as one of life's difficult lessons and move on.



Always, ALWAYS get things in writing! 

.


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## dave&sandikliza (Sep 12, 2007)

*Your answer*



tcww said:


> Like many other situations, I think the saying Caveat Emptor applies. We researched pretty long and hard, but we missed some things that are now painfully apparent. Even with iron-clad guarantees, some things go awry.
> 
> There are many unregulated industries, and this is one of them. Unfortunately, there are also many unscrupulous business owners, whether regulated or not.
> 
> ...


Your point is understood, however government is also here to serve the public. When blatant injustices occur repeatedly in society resulting in needless pain and suffering to others then government has an obligation 
to do something besides simply bury their head in the sand as you are in effect suggesting. Sure buyers of all types of products need to do more research. However it is a two way street. If things get out of hand then it at the least needs to be investigated. In our minds it is unconscionable to merely summarize situations such as these as "tough luck, guy"


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

So......

What are the options?

1) File a lawsuit that will probably cost ten times as much as what we paid for our pets (I don't know of any pro bono lawyers).
2) File with the Michigan Attorney General (I'm going to do that...have you?)
3) File a complaint with the BBB
4) File a report on ripoffreport.com.
5) Attempt to monitor as many Golden Retriever sites as we have time to make sure she doesn't reappear.

I don't know what else there is to do. I don't for sure know that "blatant injustices have occurred repeatedly". I know there are three of us. There may be more, and probably are, but we don't know that.

I'm not sticking my head in the sand, but we have to be realistic. We can go on a crusade, spend a great deal of money, and still end up with nothing except lost time. I live seven hours away from Fenton, and I have a job, so that's not a drive I would be willing to make on a daily basis, assuming we could ever get this thing brought to court. And I didn't summarize it as "tough luck, guy". Read my post again! I was trying to be realistic rather than Pollyanna.

I think it would be great if Michigan got involved....do you think there's any hope of that happening?

I just checked the USPS again, and the package is still unclaimed. I'm not holding out a lot of hope.


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

*Adoption Agreement*

Swampcollie:

Here's part of the agreement I signed:

"Adoption/Purchase Agreement & Health Guarantee Agreement 
This agreement, entered into on ________________ 
between GoldRocks, Steven and Kimberly Schulz 
Breeder/Seller and _____________________________ 
purchaser, is for the Purchase/Adoption of one 
__________ Companion (pet) Golden Retriever ~ 
Micro Chip # ________________________ with AKC 
DNA Certification and or limited registration. Above puppy is to be sayed/nuetered by the age of seven months and NEVER to be used for breeding. "

Looks to me like AKC.

But I think we're beating a dead horse.......


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I'm no lawyer, nor do I play one on tv. However, at this juncture, I think I own one - Lord knows I've paid enough for him...

Anyway, doesn't what GRM is doing constitute "mail fraud"? I believe that internet sales are regulated just the same way as mail order...

That would actually be federal, no? Are there any lawyers on board? Because I didn't buy a dog from her, my case is entirely different. But, I can ask my lawyer - he's very committed to this situation. I know that at least one of the GRM puppy buyers has spoken to him. 

Her very domain name < www. akcgoldenretrieverpuppies. com > would most certainly suggest that she is selling AKC registerable puppies. (As I understand it, the AKC's legal department is working on that...) And she continues to tout AKC in her "guarantee" and on her site.


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

I think you have a point. It may also be wire fraud. I'm filing tonight with the online form.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

The term "*Internet fraud*" generally refers to any type of fraud scheme that uses one or more online services - such as chat rooms, e-mail, message boards, or Web sites - to present fraudulent solicitations to prospective victims, to conduct fraudulent transactions, or to transmit the proceeds of fraud to financial institutions or to others connected with the scheme.
Internet fraud is committed in several ways. The FBI and police agencies worldwide have people assigned to combat this type of fraud; according to figures from the FBI, U.S. companies' losses due to Internet fraud in 2003 surpassed US$500 million. In some cases, fictitious merchants advertise goods for very low prices and never deliver. However, that type of fraud is minuscule compared to criminals using stolen credit card information to buy goods and services.


Internet crime complaint center:
http://www.ic3.gov/


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

tcww said:


> I think you have a point. It may also be wire fraud. I'm filing tonight with the online form.


 
No charge.  But you can call me Perry Masonette...or, Raisinette. I like chocolate.

Seriously, after nearly 3 years of this, I have a timer next to my phone because I am now thinking "billable hours...":gotme:

Keep your sense of humor, that's all I can legally advise...without it I'd be doomed. If I don't laugh, I'll never stop crying.


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

*Update*

That was easy. Here's the web site.....http://www.ic3.gov/.

Filled out the form on-line. Any others out there, you should do the same.
*"Thank you for filing a complaint with the Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3).*

Your complaint has been submitted. Once processed by the IC3, you will be sent an email containing your complaint id and password to be used for future contacts with the IC3. This process can take several hours.

The IC3's mission is to serve as a vehicle to receive, develop, and refer criminal complaints regarding the rapidly expanding arena of cyber crime. The IC3 aims to give the victims of cyber crime a convenient and easy-to-use reporting mechanism. If you have comments or problems related to the IC3 website, please contact us.
*Complaint Status*

The IC3 receives thousands of complaints each month and does not have the resources to respond to inquiries regarding the status of complaints. It is the IC3's intention to review all complaints and refer them to law enforcement and regulatory agencies having jurisdiction. Ultimately, investigation and prosecution are at the discretion of the receiving agencies.
*Evidence*

It is important that you maintain any evidence you may have relating to your complaint. Evidence may include canceled checks, credit card receipts, phone bills, mailing envelopes, mail receipts, a printed copy of a website, copies of emails, or similar items. Please keep the items in a safe location, in case you are requested to provide them for investigative purposes."


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

*Thanks!*



Pointgold said:


> No charge.  But you can call me Perry Masonette...or, Raisinette. I like chocolate.
> 
> Seriously, after nearly 3 years of this, I have a timer next to my phone because I am now thinking "billable hours...":gotme:
> 
> Keep your sense of humor, that's all I can legally advise...without it I'd be doomed. If I don't laugh, I'll never stop crying.


It's actually Internet Fraud, and it falls under the FBI. Now all we need is J. Edgar to show up.

I survived Vietnam. I've got a fully developed sense of humor!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Have you filed your story with ripoff.com?


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

Got my complaint ID and Password from those folks already. Who said the government's inefficient?


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> Have you filed your story with ripoff.com?


That's next on the list!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

tcww said:


> It's actually Internet Fraud, and it falls under the FBI. Now all we need is J. Edgar to show up.
> 
> I survived Vietnam. I've got a fully developed sense of humor!


Thank you for your service to our county.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

*OMG! GoldRocks*

I now see what she did on 11/12 when she "visited" the forum. 
She edited all of her posts. 

GO to her profile and look at all of her posts...

Joe, is there any kind of back up or archive?


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

*Report*



Pointgold said:


> Have you filed your story with ripoff.com?


Completed!!!!


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

Time for that sense of humor to kick in......


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

tcww said:


> Time for that sense of humor to kick in......


 
Tap tap tap tap tap...I'm waiting...tap tap tap tap tap... and it kicks in when?


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

Who knows what evel lurks in the hearts of men (and women)?

If you can appreciate the humor in MASH (the book, not the movie), then you should have no trouble here.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

tcww said:


> Who knows what evel lurks in the hearts of men (and women)?
> 
> If you can appreciate the humor in MASH (the book, not the movie), then you should have no trouble here.


 I appreciated MASH (both the book and the movie). That said, the lives and health and well being of the dogs is at stake, here, and it's real.

Sorry, but I am feeling extremely frustrated, and lawyer poor, here...


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

tcww said:


> Who knows what evel lurks in the hearts of men (and women)?


 
The Shadow Knows! 


Back to the subject at hand.

I would consult the local Police about fraud charges. The person in question knowingly misrepresented a product for financial gain. This is theft, plain and simple. If it were jewelery and somebody said they were selling diamonds when in fact they were knowingly selling cubic zirconium, the police would be all over them in a heartbeat.

While the product in question isn't diamonds, the ecconomics are the same, the product you received is only worth a fraction of the price you paid for it. The monetary value of an AKC Registerable pup is worth substantially more than one of API by as much as a factor of ten. 

That is Fraud, and it's a crime that goes beyond being just a civil matter.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Swampcollie said:


> That is Fraud, and it's a crime that goes beyond being just a civil matter.


I wondered about that as well....


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

RickGibbs said:


> I wondered about that as well....


 
So, I again ask - what does it take, Rick, for you to ban her? Before she compromises even more postings that could be beneficial in the pursuit of some sort of resolution for the HONEST people on this forum who have been harmed? Key word "criminal"...


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

tcww said:


> Who knows what evel lurks in the hearts of men (and women)?.



The Shadow Knows!!!!!!! I almost resigned up as The Shadow to post this but was too lazy!!!

Rick we could do a temporary ban so she couldn;t edit anymore until Joe was consulted.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

TheHooch said:


> Rick we could do a temporary ban so she couldn;t edit anymore until Joe was consulted.


Very good idea....


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

What does it mean that now "GoldRocksMom" does not even exist under members?


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Pointgold said:


> What does it mean that now "GoldRocksMom" does not even exist under members?


Wow....I don't know what that's about.... I didn't even think it was an option to delete a user...


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

I believe I've seen that happen when other people have been banned.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

marshab1 said:


> I believe I've seen that happen when other people have been banned.


I think it might be a temporary thing.... She's still in the system on the Admin screens...


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

Yep I see her there. I hate I had to step out in the middle of all of this. The in Laws came....Joy of joys!!! LOL At least they gave me a month before they started ruining my weekends. ROFL


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

TheHooch said:


> Yep I see her there. I hate I had to step out in the middle of all of this. The in Laws came....Joy of joys!!! LOL At least they gave me a month before they started ruining my weekends. ROFL


If you didn't have IN-laws you wouldn't have your wife. And the wife is a good thing, right?:thinking::roflmao:


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

Let me go ask her how I should answer this. ROFLMBO


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Swampcollie said:


> The Shadow Knows!
> 
> 
> Back to the subject at hand.
> ...


And, these folks aren't even getting the API papers! (Not that anyone would want 'em... a registration from WalMart would be about as valid). Not to mention that they did NOT purchase the dogs to have API registrations, but rather AKC. And then there are the Jaxson's of this story - those sho purchased "guaranteed healthy" dogs from that woman who have had to have surgery on VERY young dogs, already dysplastic.


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

The complaint I filed with the Internet Crime Complaint Center will be forwarded to the local police in Fenton.

Oher folks need to file, too!


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

I'd be wanting DNA samples of the dog and bitch involved in breeding, then a DNA of my puppy to see if the dogs listed as parents are even accurate. I would think advertising parents that may not necessarily be the parents of the puppy would also constitute fraud. The mom would be accurate, but the "stud" dog is suspect.

Jan,Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

Phoebe said:


> I'd be wanting DNA samples of the dog and bitch involved in breeding, then a DNA of my puppy to see if the dogs listed as parents are even accurate. I would think advertising parents that may not necessarily be the parents of the puppy would also constitute fraud. The mom would be accurate, but the stud dog is suspect.
> 
> Jan,Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


I would put the word stud in quotes.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

With 52 dogs, how could you be sure who the father is


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

Jo Ellen said:


> With 52 dogs, how could you be sure who the father is


Ask on the Ricky Lake or Jerry Springer shows?


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

vrocco1 said:


> Ask on the Ricky Lake or Jerry Springer shows?


Ohhhhhhhhhhhh that was a good one.


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

I'm a fan of both of those shows from waaaaay back.


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

I can't remember the name of it but I use to be a fan of a late night talk show that came on that made fun of them. They would always kind of catch you channel surfing and thinking it was a real show then bam something or someone stupid would happen. It came out about the time Riveria got his nose broken by the KKK on his show. It didn;t stay on long but it was funny.


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

Jo Ellen said:


> With 52 dogs, how could you be sure who the father is


Considering that the township discovered there are no kennels per the Tri County article, how would she contain or keep dogs separate? I would think it would be very hard to know who's the daddy in a situation where you have 50 dogs most of which are not spayed or neutered. No doubt there are some planned litters, but wouldn't you think there would be some unplanned as well? 

Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

tcww's registration paperwork said something about AKC DNA certification.

If she's banned from AKC, how does this DNA certification work??

This just boggles my mind. If she doesn't have the support of the AKC, no kennels, 50+ dogs, how can there be any faith in the lineage as she reports it. Am I missing something?


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

Phoebe said:


> Considering that the township discovered there are no kennels per the Tri County article, how would she contain or keep dogs separate? I would think it would be very hard to know who's the daddy in a situation where you have 50 dogs most of which are not spayed or neutered. No doubt there are some planned litters, but wouldn't you think there would be some unplanned as well?
> 
> Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


Don't wanna defend what is obviously a scam, but the two times we were there, the females in heat were in a separate, fenced off compound. I don't believe she had 50 adult dogs...it was more like 20 -30....at least so far as I could tell. The rest were puppies of various ages.

But then, I didn't see the inside of the barn. That could be a whole different story.

Does anyone live close enough to this place to take a drive by?


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## Chaucer and Mom (Feb 26, 2007)

Sorry to interrupt the flow here; but the search engine won't take my question.

Can you tell me the circumstances under which a breeder can be banned by the AKC? As I've mentioned before, I've never received papers for Chaucer. Is that enough? 

How much internet fraud constitutes a valid case?

PointGold, how did you find other victims of GoldRocks?

If someone knows these answers and would like to PM me rather than my hijacking the thread, please do so.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Chaucer and Mom said:


> Sorry to interrupt the flow here; but the search engine won't take my question.
> 
> Can you tell me the circumstances under which a breeder can be banned by the AKC? As I've mentioned before, I've never received papers for Chaucer. Is that enough?
> 
> ...


Nancy, I think you can find some info in the secretaries notes on the AKC website??? It's been a long time since I've been on there.


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

http://www.akc.org/pdfs/about/secretary_page/0607.pdf

There is the link to the June 2007 AKC Secretary's Page. It is on page 2.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Chaucer and Mom said:


> Sorry to interrupt the flow here; but the search engine won't take my question.
> 
> Can you tell me the circumstances under which a breeder can be banned by the AKC? As I've mentioned before, I've never received papers for Chaucer. Is that enough?
> 
> ...


There are a wide variety of infractions that can be just cause for disciplinary action by the AKC. Actions against an individual or breeder may range from a minor slap on the wrist (small fine) to fines of thousands of dollars and lifetime suspensions. (Keep in mind when an individual is suspended, so are the Registrations of their dogs. They can't register or transfer any dogs, puppies or litters.)

As far as Chaucer's papers go, that may or may not be regarded as grounds for suspension. More details on the situation and transaction would need to be studied.


Fraud is fraud, It's a crime. How much effort local law enforcement will put into the situation will depend upon the severity of the case. A fraud case involving tens of thousands of dollars will usually get swift action, those involving twenty bucks will usually be ignored or filed away for later use when the offender committs another offense.


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

TheHooch said:


> It came out about the time Riveria got his nose broken by the KKK on his show.


Now that is something they should show everyday on TV. I'll take Jerry Springer over Riveria any day.


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

tcww said:


> Don't wanna defend what is obviously a scam, but the two times we were there, the females in heat were in a separate, fenced off compound.


hehehe I wish I lived on a compound. I refer to my joint as a "ranch". It just seems more friendly


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

I lived in a compound in Vietnam....pretty exciting stuff.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Phoebe said:


> Considering that the township discovered there are no kennels per the Tri County article, how would she contain or keep dogs separate? I would think it would be very hard to know who's the daddy in a situation where you have 50 dogs most of which are not spayed or neutered. No doubt there are some planned litters, but wouldn't you think there would be some unplanned as well?
> 
> Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


 
A dear friend of mine works with her next door neighbor. This neighbor had to put up 60' of privacy fencing (the nice new fencing you see in all the bazillions of pics that woman posted) at their expense, simply to try to keep the dogs from running over in a pack and knocking down their little children. The entire 23 acres is NOT fenced, and horses are loose daily. There is an issue right now re: n old dumpster on the property in the area where the horses are, and concerns about them getting injured. According to this neighbor, there is a 5 stall barn on the property, and dogs are put in there. This precipitates lots of fights, as one would imagine, and may be where dogs were put when the nice people on this forum were allowed to visit. I don't care what anyone says - enough intact males with bitches around, and there are going to be fights. We have a note from the township clerk saying that one of the trustees, during a township meeting, stated that "a pack of GoldRocks dogs was loose and killed her neighbor's small dog." I have documentation of a full brother/sister breeding. Planned? Who knows, but sold, just the same, at her normal (inflated) prices. There is apparently some question re: DNA testing which, in addition to her not allowing inspection of dogs and records, and the number of complaints received, was part of what prompted the AKC to suspend.


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

Chaucer and Mom said:


> Chaucer's breeder had very unclean living conditions. I should have been willing to give up my $200 deposit when I saw them, and walked away. But I didn't.
> 
> I wrote to the breeder who had given me Chaucer's breeder's name. The woman was totally apologetic. Said she had heard another person who had a dog from this litter had returned the dog because it had so many problems; and would never recommend her again.
> The breeder lives in MA and I live in CT.
> ...


I live in MA. Would you be willing to tell me which town Chaucer's breeder is from? Thanks.


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

tcww said:


> I lived in a compound in Vietnam....pretty exciting stuff.


OMG, I guess that would be. Thank you for your service to the USA, my friend.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

gold'nchocolate said:


> I live in MA. Would you be willing to tell me which town Chaucer's breeder is from? Thanks.


We got Shadow from MA, too. His breeder no longer breeds Goldens.

Vietnam, I remember Jimmy MacFarland coming home on leave and then having to go back. Our hearts used to stop when he'd put his uniform back on and we'd have to bring him to the airport. His wife rented a room from my Mom. I was pretty young, but his memory will live with me forever.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

tcww said:


> Don't wanna defend what is obviously a scam, but the two times we were there, the females in heat were in a separate, fenced off compound. I don't believe she had 50 adult dogs...it was more like 20 -30....at least so far as I could tell. The rest were puppies of various ages.
> 
> But then, I didn't see the inside of the barn. That could be a whole different story.
> 
> Does anyone live close enough to this place to take a drive by?


Each time I drove by I think I saw about the same # as when I was there. Which was a lot of very young dogs and older pups. And I also saw the fenced in area with females in heat. It is kind of hard to do a drive-by viewing though because a lot of the fencing is now wood.


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> A dear friend of mine works with her next door neighbor. This neighbor had to put up 60' of privacy fencing (the nice new fencing you see in all the bazillions of pics that woman posted) at their expense, simply to try to keep the dogs from running over in a pack and knocking down their little children. The entire 23 acres is NOT fenced, and horses are loose daily. There is an issue right now re: n old dumpster on the property in the area where the horses are, and concerns about them getting injured. According to this neighbor, there is a 5 stall barn on the property, and dogs are put in there. This precipitates lots of fights, as one would imagine, and may be where dogs were put when the nice people on this forum were allowed to visit. I don't care what anyone says - enough intact males with bitches around, and there are going to be fights. We have a note from the township clerk saying that one of the trustees, during a township meeting, stated that "a pack of GoldRocks dogs was loose and killed her neighbor's small dog." I have documentation of a full brother/sister breeding. Planned? Who knows, but sold, just the same, at her normal (inflated) prices. There is apparently some question re: DNA testing which, in addition to her not allowing inspection of dogs and records, and the number of complaints received, was part of what prompted the AKC to suspend.


this whole thing is hard to even comprehend. i cant even imagine, or begin to figure out how she thinks all this is "ok"

edit: "she" being GRM


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

marshab1 said:


> Each time I drove by I think I saw about the same # as when I was there. Which was a lot of very young dogs and older pups. And I also saw the fenced in area with females in heat. It is kind of hard to do a drive-by viewing though because a lot of the fencing is now wood.


The township clerk told me that the police had been there to do a count (this was the week of one of the township meetings) and that their count was 52. In fact, it came up when Schulz's post on GRF stating that she was "in her living room surrounded by 20 dogs" was mentioned. The clerk said "Huh. Wonder where the other 32 were?" and then said that the police had gone in and counted 52, because Schulz would never tell them the actual number.
The neighbor has spoken for quite some time now about dogs being in the barn.


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> The township clerk told me that the police had been there to do a count (this was the week of one of the township meetings) and that their count was 52. In fact, it came up when Schulz's post on GRF stating that she was "in her living room surrounded by 20 dogs" was mentioned. The clerk said "Huh. Wonder where the other 32 were?" and then said that the police had gone in and counted 52, because Schulz would never tell them the actual number.
> The neighbor has spoken for quite some time now about dogs being in the barn.


 
at least their inside.....but what about the horses? are they outside then?


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Pointgold said:


> The township clerk told me that the police had been there to do a count (this was the week of one of the township meetings) and that their count was 52. In fact, it came up when Schulz's post on GRF stating that she was "in her living room surrounded by 20 dogs" was mentioned. The clerk said "Huh. Wonder where the other 32 were?" and then said that the police had gone in and counted 52, because Schulz would never tell them the actual number.
> The neighbor has spoken for quite some time now about dogs being in the barn.


I don't doubt that there were that many dogs. I think I probably saw that many. But most of what I saw were not yet old enough to breed or (in the females anyways) were probably just old enough to be reaching their first heat. When I was there their was probably 20 between the ages of 3 - 7 months.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

foreveramber said:


> at least their inside.....but what about the horses? are they outside then?


The neighbor regularly has loose horses in her yard. I have no idea how they are housed - if they go into the barn at night, and dogs are put somewhere else - I wouldn't know.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Pointgold said:


> The neighbor regularly has loose horses in her yard. I have no idea how they are housed - if they go into the barn at night, and dogs are put somewhere else - I wouldn't know.


I didn't see horses at all on her property, any of the times I was out that way. But I did see horses on other people's property. I assumed they were where they belonged, but maybe they were GRM's.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

marshab1 said:


> I didn't see horses at all on her property, any of the times I was out that way. But I did see horses on other people's property. I assumed they were where they belonged, but maybe they were GRM's.


She has several horses. The neighbor thinks around 12...and so did the clerk.


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## dave&sandikliza (Sep 12, 2007)

*Gold Rocks Kalli*

Today we took our 6 month old Gold Rocks Kalli to be spayed. We spoke with our vet about not having clearances on her parents and he suggested doing radiographs while she was put under. Are her parents even known....we'll never know. Regretfully, he informed us that she does have hip dysplasia which is unusual in a six month old puppy. He is communicating with a specialist in Oakland County to determine if a new procedure would be feasible to hopefully correct the condition which if possible, will be quite costly, and must be done before she is 10 months old. Needless to say we are more concerned about Kalli's health regardless of the cost. We will do whatever it takes to ensure that Kalli has as best a life as is medically possible....thanks alot Gold Rocks....

Dave & Sandi 




Dave&Sandi


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Oh, no. Dave & Sandi, I am SO very sorry for you, and for Kali. This is heartbreaking news.

Call me later, if you have an opportunity.

I wish I could say something to take this all away...


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

gosh... this is just terrible! I am so so sorry that you guys are going thru this esp. with just a baby. I hope that the vet can give her some relief. This whole thing is just sickening.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Oh no! I am so so sorry


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm very sorry too. I know how worried you must be. And bless you for standing by Kalli now when she needs you.

And a total thumbs down to GRM. She must know what she's doing. What an awful pitiful inexcusable shame. I just am not liking her right now AT ALL.


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

I am so dreadfully sorry...I don't know what else to say...


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Dave,

I'm so sorry. Please get a second opinion from an ortho and don't tell him that Kalli's parent's clearances are unknown. Do research on the newer procedures. Shadow had a FHO (which I wouldn't have done if it wasn't an emergency) but also had a THR and he's doing wonderful.


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

I'm very sorry that you and Kalli have to go through this, but very glad that Kalli has a family that is willing to give her the medical care she needs. If Goldrocks did nothing else correct, she did a fine job choosing a good family for Kalli. Michigan Veterinary Specialists, Dr. Jackson, did surgery on my in-law's very young poodle a couple of years ago. Not sure if this is who your vet is recommending, but if so, Kalli will be in good hands. If you watched Crickett play now, you'd never know she ever had a problem with her hips.

Wasn't somebody on GRF going to court on November 29? I wonder if Ms. Shultz showed up and if so, what happened?

Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


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## PeggyK (Apr 16, 2005)

I am so sorry about Kalli-but she is so lucky to have you. My Oakley has HD and his breeder (wouldn't go back to him again) paid for the operation. He had FHO and is 10 1/2 and doing pretty darn well!! Hopefully Kalli will be good as new. I'll be thinking of you.


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## jcasks (Oct 14, 2007)

I am SO sorry you are going through this right now....shame on GRM for doing this to you and all the other owners who have purchased pups from her. 

I mean this is so out of control, it almost seems a class action lawsuit could be taken out!!!!


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

I'm so sorry. It is awful when you are giving bad news about your beloved pet. But you have found us here and none can better understand what you are going thru than many of the people on here. Our pets are family members we would do anything for. And many have had experience with HD and the surgeries and treatments. And I know they'll be more than happy to tell you their experiences and offer support.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

There is a type of surgery that they are now doing that is a lot less invasive, this is probably what your vet is talking about. It needs to be done before the growth plates are fused, before 8 months. It is a lot cheaper than the HD surgery done to adults, and when all is healed, your dog would actually rate an Excellent when OFA screened.

Be thankful that HD was discovered now. Sorry for your bad news.


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## jaxson (Oct 9, 2007)

Phoebe said:


> I'm very sorry that you and Kalli have to go through this, but very glad that Kalli has a family that is willing to give her the medical care she needs. If Goldrocks did nothing else correct, she did a fine job choosing a good family for Kalli. Michigan Veterinary Specialists, Dr. Jackson, did surgery on my in-law's very young poodle a couple of years ago. Not sure if this is who your vet is recommending, but if so, Kalli will be in good hands. If you watched Crickett play now, you'd never know she ever had a problem with her hips.
> 
> Wasn't somebody on GRF going to court on November 29? I wonder if Ms. Shultz showed up and if so, what happened?
> 
> Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


I took the day off and drove the 5 hours from Chicago to Michigan to appear in court on the 29th. We were the second case but the magistrate moved it down into the docket to give GRM the chance to appear. Two cases later, no GRM and he heard my case and awarded judgment to me. After informing me of the methods of payment and collection, his parting words were "good luck, seems like you will need it".

Jaxson


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

jaxson said:


> I took the day off and drove the 5 hours from Chicago to Michigan to appear in court on the 29th. We were the second case but the magistrate moved it down into the docket to give GRM the chance to appear. Two cases later, no GRM and he heard my case and awarded judgment to me. After informing me of the methods of payment and collection, his parting words were "good luck, seems like you will need it".
> 
> Jaxson


 
what is your experience with grm?


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

jaxson said:


> I took the day off and drove the 5 hours from Chicago to Michigan to appear in court on the 29th. We were the second case but the magistrate moved it down into the docket to give GRM the chance to appear. Two cases later, no GRM and he heard my case and awarded judgment to me. After informing me of the methods of payment and collection, his parting words were "good luck, seems like you will need it".
> 
> Jaxson


Well at least you got to state your case and hopefully others will learn from it. Kudos to you for standing up and doing what's right.


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## jaxson (Oct 9, 2007)

foreveramber said:


> what is your experience with grm?


Experience? Define.

Jaxson


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

jaxson said:


> I took the day off and drove the 5 hours from Chicago to Michigan to appear in court on the 29th. We were the second case but the magistrate moved it down into the docket to give GRM the chance to appear. Two cases later, no GRM and he heard my case and awarded judgment to me. After informing me of the methods of payment and collection, his parting words were "good luck, seems like you will need it".
> 
> Jaxson


Thanks for the update Jaxson. I'm sorry you had to take a vacation day and make that drive for somebody that wasn't even decent enough to show up in court. She obviously has no respect for the golden breed, no respect for her customers, no respect for neighbors, and no respect for the law.

Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

jaxson said:


> Experience? Define.
> 
> Jaxson


 
what experience did you have with grm, that landed you in court? is there a thread somewhere so you dont have to repeat yourself?


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

foreveramber said:


> what experience did you have with grm, that landed you in court? is there a thread somewhere so you dont have to repeat yourself?


Jaxson also purchased a GoldRocks dog, and she had to have surgery as she was dysplastic, diagnosed at a young age, as well. One of many, sadly. In addition to the price paid for a dog that is unregisterable, contrary to her sales contract and her many many web sites and web ads, these nice people have many thousands of dollars in veterinary bills to look forward to, and the possibilty that their dog will be unable to live the normal, active life as a family member that they had planned for it. And yet another puppy buyer has had to resort to legal action to honor the guarantee made by the breeder.

This is fact, although Ms. Schulz is apparently printing everything that I post to this Forum and claiming that I am "attacking" her. Yet she felt it was okay for her to come onto this forum, knowing that her trusting puppy buyers were desperate to contact her, ignoring their calls, emails, and even legal notices served, and take the time to DELETE all the posts that she made, and replacing the nasty words and untruths with smiley faces and waveys, essentially telling those who bought pups from her in good faith, paid for with their hard earned money, "too bad for you, and too bad for the puppy that I produced that will suffer from a crippling, hereditary disease."


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## jaxson (Oct 9, 2007)

foreveramber said:


> what experience did you have with grm, that landed you in court? is there a thread somewhere so you dont have to repeat yourself?


My story can be found on Member Introductions, Hello from Gurnee, page 6. Pointgold did a good job of summarizing as they know the frustration all too well.

Jaxson


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

jaxson said:


> My story can be found on Member Introductions, Hello from Gurnee, page 6. Pointgold did a good job of summarizing as they know the frustration all too well.
> 
> Jaxson


Frustration on _many_ levels. Because I love these dogs.


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## dave&sandikliza (Sep 12, 2007)

*Gold Rocks Kalli*



jaxson said:


> I took the day off and drove the 5 hours from Chicago to Michigan to appear in court on the 29th. We were the second case but the magistrate moved it down into the docket to give GRM the chance to appear. Two cases later, no GRM and he heard my case and awarded judgment to me. After informing me of the methods of payment and collection, his parting words were "good luck, seems like you will need it".
> 
> Jaxson


We would like to thank everyone who have replied to our post and given us encouragement and useful information. We really were at a loss when our Vet made the diagnosis. It seemed he was as surprised as we were. Thank god it appears that it might be operable with this new less evasive procedure. As we only found out today you can be sure we are researching the subject. If any other members have knowledge in that area please share it with us. 

The Michigan Veterinary Specialists in Southfield was mentioned and we are familiar with the office. We and our daughter have taken "her" 20 year old cat Pancakes there many times. It seems when Pancakes is well it's "her cat" and when he's sick he's "our cat" We will get a 2nd opinion.

Congragulations, Jaxon on winning round one verses Gold Rocks mom. We appluad your perservance. We are getting advice and weighing our legal options. We have learned the word research the hard way. 

Our Vet is keeping Kalli overnite from her spaying procedure today. As you can see it leaves us with more time to answer replies as she is not here to demand our attention. We are looking forward to seeing her in the morning!

Dave & Sandi


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

dave&sandikliza said:


> We would like to thank everyone who have replied to our post and given us encouragement and useful information. We really were at a loss when our Vet made the diagnosis. It seemed he was as surprised as we were. Thank god it appears that it might be operable with this new less evasive procedure. As we only found out today you can be sure we are researching the subject. If any other members have knowledge in that area please share it with us.
> 
> The Michigan Veterinary Specialists in Southfield was mentioned and we are familiar with the office. We and our daughter have taken "her" 20 year old cat Pancakes there many times. It seems when Pancakes is well it's "her cat" and when he's sick he's "our cat" We will get a 2nd opinion.
> 
> ...


Kalli is indeed a lucky girl, having been brought into such a loving home. 
As are Sophie, and Sadie, and Murphy, and the list goes on. My sadness in knowing that these wonderful families have to cope with issues with the breeder, and to fight to have promises made fulfilled, is only outweighed by my knowing that there ARE puppies who will suffer hip dysplasia and will not be so fortunate to be treated with every therapy possible.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

So is there a way to collect judgment against the guilty party? Seems there should be some way to force her to liquidate her assets to satisfy the judgment. Or haul her sorry a** into jail until she does.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I think the name of the surgery is "pubic symphysiodesis". I was told it was about $1400 compared to the $4000 surgery done as an adult.


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## jaxson (Oct 9, 2007)

Jackson'sMom said:


> So is there a way to collect judgment against the guilty party? Seems there should be some way to force her to liquidate her assets to satisfy the judgment. Or haul her sorry a** into jail until she does.


 
Stay tuned for Round 2 which begins in 16 days and counting down.

Jaxson


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

jaxson said:


> Stay tuned for Round 2 which begins in 16 days and counting down.
> 
> Jaxson


good luck! im so sorry to hear your story...i cant imagine what its like. how can that woman sleep at night?


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

People wondered why we were so hard on GRM....and I guess this is one of the main reasons others are so passionate about breeding practices...


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## kerribear's golden kids (May 17, 2007)

I am so saddened to read all of this! 
My best to you and your pups for everyone who got a dog from her! 
Just saddened! Poor puppies!


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

cubbysan said:


> I think the name of the surgery is "pubic symphysiodesis". I was told it was about $1400 compared to the $4000 surgery done as an adult.


Is this the surgery Morgan had? I know they do TPO (not a new procedure) on the younger pups if they're candidates. I just know there is one procedure that did not go well for one pup, but I'm not sure if it's the one you mentioned.


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

*Attacks*

"This is fact, although Ms. Schulz is apparently printing everything that I post to this Forum and claiming that I am "attacking" her."

PG:

Do you mean that GRM is printing your postings to use against you in your upcoming court date?

If so, I would be more than happy to provide some sort of deposition regarding her business practices, etc. Let me know.

On a related note, I know that she's been banned/fined by the AKC, but exactly what kind of enforcement power does the AKC have? How can they force her to pay the fine? Her website address still has AKC prominently displayed.....why isn't the AKC taking more aggressive action?


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

tcww said:


> On a related note, I know that she's been banned/fined by the AKC, but exactly what kind of enforcement power does the AKC have? How can they force her to pay the fine? Her website address still has AKC prominently displayed.....why isn't the AKC taking more aggressive action?


How effective the AKC's authority will be depends upon the person in question. If the individual desires to register dogs with the AKC again in the future, they need to take the suspension and fine seriously. If they have no desire to register dogs or litters with the AKC again, they tend to ignor the AKC's Sanctions. 

The AKC does have extensive experience in dealing with Breeders who make false claims about their affiliation with the AKC but before they can act, somebody has to step into the light of day for all to see and file a formal complaint, citing actual damages to themselves. (For example, I could not file a complaint because I don't have a business relationship with the person in question, therefore no basis upon which to file a complaint.)

Without such a complaint, it will take many months of letter writing, statements of possible litigation, statements of pending litigation, etc, for the AKC to finally get the references to their brand name off the offenders advertisments and literature.



.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Swampcollie said:


> How effective the AKC's authority will be depends upon the person in question. If the individual desires to register dogs with the AKC again in the future, they need to take the suspension and fine seriously. If they have no desire to register dogs or litters with the AKC again, they tend to ignor the AKC's Sanctions.
> 
> The AKC does have extensive experience in dealing with Breeders who make false claims about their affiliation with the AKC but before they can act, somebody has to step into the light of day for all to see and file a formal complaint, citing actual damages to themselves. (For example, I could not file a complaint because I don't have a business relationship with the person in question, therefore no basis upon which to file a complaint.)
> 
> ...


This is good, solid information, SC. I hope that those who have purchased puppies with the promise of AKC registration papers do file formal complaints.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> This is good, solid information, SC. I hope that those who have purchased puppies with the promise of AKC registration papers do file formal complaints.


That really is what it takes to get after the bad apples. If you were sold a puppy under provable false pretenses (like AKC Registration for example), you can bring your complaint and documentation to the AKC and they will act and file criminal charges (Fraud) with Law Enforcement authorities in the offenders local jurisdiction.

Of course there is down side, to face. You will almost certainly face countersuits filed on behalf of the offender, so you will spend a lot of time and money defending yourself in the process. (Out of pocket expenses that you will not recover. But you will have the satisfaction of putting a dirtball away.)


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Swampcollie said:


> That really is what it takes to get after the bad apples. If you were sold a puppy under provable false pretenses (like AKC Registration for example), you can bring your complaint and documentation to the AKC and they will act and file criminal charges (Fraud) with Law Enforcement authorities in the offenders local jurisdiction.
> 
> Of course there is down side, to face. You will almost certainly face countersuits filed on behalf of the offender, so you will spend a lot of time and money defending yourself in the process. (Out of pocket expenses that you will not recover. But you will have the satisfaction of putting a dirtball away.)


What could possibly be countersued for? If a puppy buyer did nothing but purchase a puppy in good faith, paid for it in full, and followed the breeder/seller's requirements insofar as vet care, feeding, etc, while the breeder/seller did not provide the promised registration papers (obviously non-existent if suspended) nor lived up to contractual promises such as replacement/paying for treatment of hereditary illness, etc, what could be countersued for? (I know that anyone can sue for pretty nearly anything, but in such a circumstance, what might be charged?)


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## 3spoiledgoldens (Oct 31, 2006)

What is the website for Gold Rocks?


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## tcww (Oct 3, 2007)

*Website*



3spoiledgoldens said:


> What is the website for Gold Rocks?



GOLD ROCKS GOLDEN RETRIEVER SERVICE AND COMPANION(PET)


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> What could possibly be countersued for? If a puppy buyer did nothing but purchase a puppy in good faith, paid for it in full, and followed the breeder/seller's requirements insofar as vet care, feeding, etc, while the breeder/seller did not provide the promised registration papers (obviously non-existent if suspended) nor lived up to contractual promises such as replacement/paying for treatment of hereditary illness, etc, what could be countersued for? (I know that anyone can sue for pretty nearly anything, but in such a circumstance, what might be charged?)


They can bring one meaningless suit after another, usually slander, defamation of character, loss of revenue, etc. If you have your ducks in a row you'll nearly always prevail, but you will have needed to seek the services of council, burn hours upon hours of vacation time, just doing the ground work to answer all the frivolous suits filed against you.


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## jaxson (Oct 9, 2007)

Swampcollie said:


> That really is what it takes to get after the bad apples. If you were sold a puppy under provable false pretenses (like AKC Registration for example), you can bring your complaint and documentation to the AKC and they will act and file criminal charges (Fraud) with Law Enforcement authorities in the offenders local jurisdiction.
> 
> Of course there is down side, to face. You will almost certainly face countersuits filed on behalf of the offender, so you will spend a lot of time and money defending yourself in the process. (Out of pocket expenses that you will not recover. But you will have the satisfaction of putting a dirtball away.)


If she cannot afford to honor her contracts and pay/reimburse those that have been awarded claims against her, I cannot imagine she would have the financial wherewithal to file counter suits.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Swampcollie said:


> They can bring one meaningless suit after another, usually slander, defamation of character, loss of revenue, etc. If you have your ducks in a row you'll nearly always prevail, but you will have needed to seek the services of council, burn hours upon hours of vacation time, just doing the ground work to answer all the frivolous suits filed against you.


I've always believed this myself. I just could not put my thoughts into comprehendable words. People think I'm nuts when I tell them they can be sued after posting negative comments, but the response is usually, "If I'm stating the facts how can they sue?" People can, and will, sue for anything...


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

Kimm said:


> I've always believed this myself. I just could not put my thoughts into comprehendable words. People think I'm nuts when I tell them they can be sued after posting negative comments, but the response is usually, "If I'm stating the facts how can they sue?" People can, and will, sue for anything...


Hmmmmm maybe I can sue for beer?


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

vrocco1 said:


> Hmmmmm maybe I can sue for beer?


I'd choose whole belly clams...


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## dave&sandikliza (Sep 12, 2007)

*Gold Rocks Kalli*

We contacted the Michigan State Police and the Livingston County Sheriff's Department. The folks there claim that since it is a "business" matter it should be handled in court and filed as a civil suit. It still seems to us that it is fraud and the police should be able to do something.
Kalli's hip x-rays show that one hip is fair and the other poor. So sad in such a baby isn't it? The specialist our vet spoke with said to do nothing unless she starts to exhibit signs. A second opinion was recommended by our vet so we have an appointment with Michigan Veterinary Specialists in Southfield.Any other advice is appreciated.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

dave&sandikliza said:


> We contacted the Michigan State Police and the Livingston County Sheriff's Department. The folks there claim that since it is a "business" matter it should be handled in court and filed as a civil suit. It still seems to us that it is fraud and the police should be able to do something.
> Kalli's hip x-rays show that one hip is fair and the other poor. So sad in such a baby isn't it? The specialist our vet spoke with said to do nothing unless she starts to exhibit signs. A second opinion was recommended by our vet so we have an appointment with Michigan Veterinary Specialists in Southfield.Any other advice is appreciated.


If one hip is fair that sounds positive. Shadow's hips were both really bad and the FHO side just popped out of the socket (he had no sockets) and needed ER surgery. The ortho Vet said we could wait to have the other side corrected, but if we felt it was a problem for him and interferring with his quality of life to go ahead with the surgery.


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## jak_sak (Jan 23, 2008)

Hi there!

I got a puppy, male from Gold Rocks about 6-7 weeks ago. I did NOT get the AKC registration. I instead got the API registration. I did not realize that API was different from AKC (I am a foreigner living in the US). I wanted to talk to her about it and called her and left two messages. She hasn't called me back. My Puppy was also diagnosed with Giardia. I took him to the vet and had him treated. He is better now and tested negative. After reading all the reviews in here, I am REALLY WORRIED about my puppy. He seems active and OK, but being naive, I am really worried. She never gave me any certificates of OFA/HIP CLEARENCE etc of the SIRE/DAM. She has not given me any health guarantees and I thought those would come with the registration. I was talking to my brother in Canada and he said "Any dog not registered with the AKC means it has some genetic defect and has been banned from being registered with AKC." 

I am now really worried as to what needs to be done. Do puppies from Gold Rocks have genetic conditions?

Cheers..
-JI


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

oh no, another one. jak_sak, firstly, welcome to the forum, you have found a great source of info and support here. secondly, yes goldrocks has scammed countless puppy buyers with defective puppies.... take some time to read through this and other threads regarding goldrocks... i am glad you found us.



jak_sak said:


> Hi there!
> 
> I got a puppy, male from Gold Rocks about 6-7 weeks ago. I did NOT get the AKC registration. I instead got the API registration. I did not realize that API was different from AKC (I am a foreigner living in the US). I wanted to talk to her about it and called her and left two messages. She hasn't called me back. My Puppy was also diagnosed with Giardia. I took him to the vet and had him treated. He is better now and tested negative. After reading all the reviews in here, I am REALLY WORRIED about my puppy. He seems active and OK, but being naive, I am really worried. She never gave me any certificates of OFA/HIP CLEARENCE etc of the SIRE/DAM. She has not given me any health guarantees and I thought those would come with the registration. I was talking to my brother in Canada and he said "Any dog not registered with the AKC means it has some genetic defect and has been banned from being registered with AKC."
> 
> ...


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## gracie's mom (Aug 6, 2006)

how much did you pay for your puppy?


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

jak_sak said:


> I was talking to my brother in Canada and he said "Any dog not registered with the AKC means it has some genetic defect and has been banned from being registered with AKC."


That isn't quite correct.

There can be several reasons why the AKC won't register a dog or litter. Genetic health issues aren't usually the reason. In most instances it is due to questionable practices on the part of the breeder or owner of a dog, when it comes to dealing with their dogs, other dog fanciers or the public.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

jak_sak said:


> Hi there!
> 
> I got a puppy, male from Gold Rocks about 6-7 weeks ago. I did NOT get the AKC registration. I instead got the API registration. I did not realize that API was different from AKC (I am a foreigner living in the US). I wanted to talk to her about it and called her and left two messages. She hasn't called me back. My Puppy was also diagnosed with Giardia. I took him to the vet and had him treated. He is better now and tested negative. After reading all the reviews in here, I am REALLY WORRIED about my puppy. He seems active and OK, but being naive, I am really worried. She never gave me any certificates of OFA/HIP CLEARENCE etc of the SIRE/DAM. She has not given me any health guarantees and I thought those would come with the registration. I was talking to my brother in Canada and he said "Any dog not registered with the AKC means it has some genetic defect and has been banned from being registered with AKC."
> 
> ...


Your brother's statement is n ot entirely true. BUT, GoldRocks IS in fact suspended from the AKC - for 10 years, with a $2000.00 fine - each Mr. & Mrs. Schulz. The API is not a registry, other than for micro-chipping, and is a support network for "The Pet Industry", including puppy mills and brokers.
As for the health of your puppy, we'll all pray that he doesn't end up like the numerous others, some Forum members, who are now coping with dysplastic puppies.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Sigh... I wonder if I will again be told to "let it go"... GoldRocks has TWO LITTERS due in February, as advertised on her website. The Tyrone Township consent judgement clearly states no dogs under 6 weeks of age shall be on that property (the clerk was quoted in a published article as hoping that would stop the breeding...). It seems a blatant disregard of the law.
And now, yet another puppy buyer who was misled, now ignored, with a puppy with health issues.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

How I wish someone would/could do something to stop this despicable profiteering in innocent animal life. :banghead:


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## Angel_Kody (Feb 27, 2007)

jak_sak said:


> Hi there!
> 
> I got a puppy, male from Gold Rocks about 6-7 weeks ago. I did NOT get the AKC registration. I instead got the API registration. I did not realize that API was different from AKC (I am a foreigner living in the US). I wanted to talk to her about it and called her and left two messages. She hasn't called me back. My Puppy was also diagnosed with Giardia. I took him to the vet and had him treated. He is better now and tested negative. After reading all the reviews in here, I am REALLY WORRIED about my puppy. He seems active and OK, but being naive, I am really worried. She never gave me any certificates of OFA/HIP CLEARENCE etc of the SIRE/DAM. She has not given me any health guarantees and I thought those would come with the registration. I was talking to my brother in Canada and he said "Any dog not registered with the AKC means it has some genetic defect and has been banned from being registered with AKC."
> 
> ...


I just want to welcome you and your pup to the forum. Please don't panic. There is a lot of info here about Gold Rocks which I'm sure you are reading right now. I don't have any personal experience with her myself as others do. I just want you to know that I pray that your puppy will live a long, healthy and happy life.

Please continue to ask questions. I'm sure that those who have first hand knowledge will be happy to lend support.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> Sigh... I wonder if I will again be told to "let it go"... GoldRocks has TWO LITTERS due in February, as advertised on her website. The Tyrone Township consent judgement clearly states no dogs under 6 weeks of age shall be on that property (the clerk was quoted in a published article as hoping that would stop the breeding...). It seems a blatant disregard of the law.
> And now, yet another puppy buyer who was misled, now ignored, with a puppy with health issues.


Can't this be reported to the authorities of Tyrone Township? Then they would have to investigate and maybe shut her down completely

Jazzys Mom


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

jak sak: I don't have any experience with this breeder either, and am in no way informed enough to tell you what to expect, but I would make one suggestion: If it were me, I would do some research and get pet insurance for my dog... the sooner the better. My hope is that you will never need to use it... but it may help you out in the long run. Welcome to the forum.

Julie and Jersey

Julie and Jersey


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Jazzys Mom said:


> Can't this be reported to the authorities of Tyrone Township? Then they would have to investigate and maybe shut her down completely
> 
> Jazzys Mom


Didn't she have a certain amount of time to comply with the order? If that window hasn't closed yet, unfortunately I don't think the township would have any recourse. 

Julie and Jersey


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## Augustus McCrae's Mom (Aug 14, 2007)

I'm in the mood for conspiracy, so can we take a field trip and do some dog-napping? 

I'm just kidding...I just finished reading Kimm's comment about being sued for stuff.


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## Kzwicker (Aug 14, 2007)

I feel bad for all the puppies.. Does she treat her adult dogs well?


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## jak_sak (Jan 23, 2008)

My puppy *Casanova* seems to be doing fine and when I went to visit her the week prior to buying my puppy, everything seemed fine. Mine was the last puppy of the litter born 08/16. I haven't had a chance to talk to her yet - have left her two messages - but will try to square this away with her.

As in the case of others, I trusted the information in her website. She never gave me a form for health guarantee. I did not know that the puppy would not be AKC registered. I paid $1000. Not to mention the additional 500 I have spend in treating a bad case of Giardia. Its not about the money, but even though Casanova has only been with me for 6 weeks, I've gone to like him as my baby. I don't want to see him suffer with anything. I am so frustrated that I did not do the proper research! I wish I would have found this forum before.

That being said, what should I do now?


1. I need to get him AKC registered - is it possible?
2. Get Goldrocks to issue me health guarantees.
3. Get Insurance for covering any issues that might come up.

Being a first-time pet owner, I wish I had done more research. How many puppies from there have had genetic defects? Anyone purchase puppies from her from the 08/16 litter? 


Cheers..
-JI


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

jak_sak said:


> My puppy *Casanova* seems to be doing fine and when I went to visit her the week prior to buying my puppy, everything seemed fine. Mine was the last puppy of the litter born 08/16. I haven't had a chance to talk to her yet - have left her two messages - but will try to square this away with her.
> 
> As in the case of others, I trusted the information in her website. She never gave me a form for health guarantee. I did not know that the puppy would not be AKC registered. I paid $1000. Not to mention the additional 500 I have spend in treating a bad case of Giardia. Its not about the money, but even though Casanova has only been with me for 6 weeks, I've gone to like him as my baby. I don't want to see him suffer with anything. I am so frustrated that I did not do the proper research! I wish I would have found this forum before.
> 
> ...


You will never get AKC registration. She is suspended for 10 years of all AKC priveledges. The parents are not registered, either.
It is very unlikely that health clearances exist, and her guarantee has not been honored with the many others who have purchased defective puppies. Many have resorted to suing her (and won) but never get the money awarded. As the saying goes, "Get in line".
Yes, DO get insurance, and soon.

I believe that Kalli Kliza may have been from the same litter. (Don't quote me...) You can find info her on the forum, as I believe the Kliza's posted it. Kalli is dysplastic, diagnosed at 6 months of age, and will need a hip replacement - MSU vets told them that she is not a good candidate for TPO.
I am very sorry for any frustration you might be experiencing. I certainly understand.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

make sure to do your research and get a pet insurance that DOES cover hereditary defects, like hip dysplasia. many do not. but some do.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Pointgold said:


> Sigh... I wonder if I will again be told to "let it go"... GoldRocks has TWO LITTERS due in February, as advertised on her website. The Tyrone Township consent judgement clearly states no dogs under 6 weeks of age shall be on that property (the clerk was quoted in a published article as hoping that would stop the breeding...). It seems a blatant disregard of the law.
> And now, yet another puppy buyer who was misled, now ignored, with a puppy with health issues.


In all honesty I cringe whenever I see someone asking you to "let it go". Apathy is the last thing needed in a situation like this. Just look at this latest poster! I can't believe I was reading yet ANOTHER GR's issue. To know there are MORE puppies being born now...it's just so disheartening. I thank you PG for bringing this to the forefront and keeping it there - it's not something that people should just "get over". We are talking about an ongoing production of dogs of questionable heritage with HEFTY pricetags to boot. It's SICK SICK SICK.


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## jak_sak (Jan 23, 2008)

One thing I DID KNOW when I visited Goldrocks (twice) is that she did care for her puppies and dogs. I mean I saw close to 8-10 adult dogs and 2 new litters of puppies. But what worried me was the fact that I was not able to register my puppy in the AKC registry. I don't want to breed him, but if I need to show him, I won't be able to do so with this API thing (and I thought API is a part of AKC- how dumb!) Ok, I admit I did not do my research right.

However I never imagined puppies from goldrocks had genetic defects. She talked well and seemed to genuinely care for her dogs. I am not going to conclude anything until I hear back from her. Obviously after reading these forums, I see people talking 'for' and 'against' goldrocks.


I am going to ask her two things -

1. I need written health clearances of the sire and dam of my puppy.
2. I need to find a way to get my puppy AKC registered failing which I will ask her to return my money back.

I am also looking around for pet insurance to see if they will cover genetic defects. Anybody here know of any pet insurers that cover genetic defects (if any)?

I thank everyone who wishes my puppy well. I pray that he does not have to undergo any surgery which will put under stress on the little fellow. 

I will post some pictures of my wonderful 'Casanova' soon!!


Cheers..
-JI


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

jak_sak

I am so sorry that you have to go through this, especially as a first tiem puppy owner.

As others have said, no, you won't get him AKC registered but I would try to get my money back from her. Its doubtful that you will be successful according to what others have gone through with Gold Rocks Mom already. You have to give it a try though. More importantly is your puppy. I am not aware of any pet insurance company that insures against genetic defects. That's not to say though, that there are none. Keep looking on the internet and see what comes up. 

Sounds like you have read this whole thread so you do know what to look for in your puppy. Praying that he is not affected and will grow up to be a happy and healthy dog.

JAzzys Mom


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

First off welcome to the forum. Wish you had found us earlier. Unfortuanately you will never get AKC papers on the your pupper and I wish you the best of luck trying to get anything out of her. I would contact a lawyer and see what options in your state you have open to you. I wouldn;t even pretend to know that. Good luck with your new pupper and know we are here any time you need help.


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## Sophie's slave (Jul 1, 2007)

Can't tell you which insurers will, but VPI, the insurer I use for Sophie, does not cover genetic problems like hip dysplasia. They're great for most other things, but if you're looking at a potentially dysplastic puppy (and I'm so hoping you're not), it's not the one to use. Mark them off your list. 

Good luck and I do so hope that your puppy is fine and healthy. Get the insurance, just in case. I've had it since Sophie was a year old and would not be without it.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

i have pet plan insurance and they do cover hereditary defects. www.gopetplan.com


good luck getting anything from goldrocks mom... this includes your money back, a health guarantee, or heck, even a call back.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I just checked and want to make a correction to an earlier statement - Kalli Kliza was born May 30. Her sire and dam are Prince and Olympia. So she is not a littermate to your Casanova. Can you tell us who his parents are?


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## jak_sak (Jan 23, 2008)

His SIRE is "Christine's Cuddly Cody" and DAM is "GoldRock's Apple Jelly Bean". How do I find the information in the OFA database?

Cheers..
-JI


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## jak_sak (Jan 23, 2008)

*Casanova!*

I attached a picture of little Casanova!


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Awwww, what a cutie! I certainly hope the best for him. 

As for the OFA database, I am not sure God Rocks dogs were even cleared. Others on here can tell you better tha I can though

Jazzys Mom


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

Just go to k9data.com and type in the names of your dog's parents. I just finished doing this and came up with no information on either dog, which did not surprise me.

Casanova is so cute!

Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

> I am also looking around for pet insurance to see if they will cover genetic defects. Anybody here know of any pet insurers that cover genetic defects (if any)?


Jak_Sak, this insurer does cover heridetary defects, but get the coverage NOW in case anything happens in the future. They have an exclusion policy if the dog has been diagnosed previously (just like human insurance does). 

There are many plans. We have the Quick Care Gold (because that's the plan that covers heridetary defects) - the 70% plan. If we had to use it, we'd pay a $100 deductible first and then would be responsible for 30% of the bill. They do have plans that pay more, but of course are more expensive.

This plan (the Quick Care Gold) does NOT cover routine care like vaccinations, HW prevention, Flea and Tick prevention, etc. But it covers things that are costly.

Here's the plan with Pet Care Insurance that we have. Remember, if the plan you're looking at doesn't say that it covers hereditary defects, it doesn't...many/most plans don't:

http://www.petcareinsurance.com/us/dog-insurance-gold.asp


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## bizzy (Mar 30, 2007)

While others have said you get a full AKC registry to show in breed. You can get what is(well was they just changed the name and I can't remember what to) ILP listing that will allow you to show in preformance events such as obediance or agility. Good luck with your new little one.


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## dave&sandikliza (Sep 12, 2007)

*Gold Rocks Kalli*

We are the owners of Gold Rocks Kalli, the Gold Rocks not a name to be proud of.we recently had Kalli evaluated at Michigan State University Veterinary Hospital, a top of the line facility. We saw the head of Orthopedics,a Dr. very respected inthe field of hip dysplasia and his major field of research.He did confirm that Kalli, just shy of 8 months, has dysplasia along with arthritis.he does not believe that TPO is the best treatment for this condition. At the present time she is not showing clinical signs so we are in the wait and see mode. Hip replacement may be necessary in the future. Check the website on Embrace Pet Insurance. It is reasonable. GRM has a vet that will do TPO for $750 the usual cost is 3 to 4 grand...hmm.She relayed this info to us during the course of hanging up on us and telling us she was recording our conversation. The story goes on and on.

Our other, happier news is that we now have a 9 week old golden brother for Kalli! Are we crazy??Kody was a rescue dog. He was purchased for an austic child and it did not work out.We fell for that adorable little face and here we are. He has AKC papers and we do not know about clearances but will take our chances for $200 as opposed to $1250 scam. Life is very chaotic with two puppies . The cold Mich weather is making house training very hard. I think Dave sleeps in his jacket for those potty runs!Kalli is being very 'bitchy' taking all the toys from Kody and then he fights back. He is pretty much fearless but our house is no longer calm. Any suggestions? Thanks forum members for all of your support. Any questions about GRM just send a private message. Good Luck.
dave&sandi


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I did a quick check on OFA (www.offa.org) and neither parent shows up. Given their location in Michigan and the USA, I would expect to find at least a hip and elbow clearance.

Goldrocks was banned from k9data, so unless someone else entered the dogs, or they were entered a long time ago, I would not expect to find them there either.

Good luck with your new baby though! He might just be fine with no problems, you can never tell. I second the suggestion to buy pet insurance that covers genetic problems, ASAP.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

jak_sak said:


> His SIRE is "Christine's Cuddly Cody" and DAM is "GoldRock's Apple Jelly Bean". How do I find the information in the OFA database?
> 
> Cheers..
> -JI


 
Neither dog is in the OFA database.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Welcome and I am so sorry you didnt find us sooner. I pray that your sweet baby doesnt have the health problems that some other members here are dealing with. Good luck and definetly find some good pet insurance. Dont feel bad for being fooled by her, there are alot of us that just feel in love with her pups by her pictures and postings. Then she was angry when someone started questioning her and asking for reassurances and ended up deleting alot of her posts and making snide comments instead of just answering legitimate questions. Your puppy is just adorable and I hope you are able to get your questions answered by her and your money back. Unfortunately you will never be able to get the AKC paperwork. I hope you will stick around and share your pictures and stories of your baby.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

I can't imagine how many GR dogs out there have medical issues. We hear about the ones who have families who know enough to get them proper care, but what about those families who just had cash and no knowledge or support systems to help them recognize a health issue? Those are the dogs I feel for the most. They may have to endure lifetimes of pain.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> I can't imagine how many GR dogs out there have medical issues. We hear about the ones who have families who know enough to get them proper care, but what about those families who just had cash and no knowledge or support systems to help them recognize a health issue? Those are the dogs I feel for the most. They may have to endure lifetimes of pain.


I agree wholeheartedly. While I of course wish that none of these puppies were ever produced, only to suffer illness and hereditary disease, I am grateful that there are in fact so many good people who are doing right by them. It's more than unfortunate that they have to go through this.


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

Agreed ...


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