# Help with pedigree please



## Momoftwins (Oct 18, 2013)

Hi there, looking at this litter, can anyone offer any thoughts on the pedigree, coi, etc? Any red flags? Just looking for a pet, maybe therapy. Thank you very much in advance!!

Pedigree: starrise ravello royale

Pedigree: BISS Am GCH CH/Can CH Gangway's SUV OS SDHF

Thanks


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## NewfieMom (Sep 8, 2013)

Wow. I can buy a diamond on-line by its cert, as long as it is a GIA or an AGS, but I wouldn't dare to buy a dog that way! Do you know the breeder already? I think that you have to start there. I do not know you and I am new to this forum. You may be an old hand at this and already know the breeder backwards and forwards. I would want to be sure that the Golden Retriever organizations loved the breeder and that the breeder was known for producing the healthiest dogs before I looked at a pedigree. But, again, you may already have done this. I am new, as I said!

I wonder if this thread on picking the perfect breeder might be helpful to you: Picking The Perfect Breeder...http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...der-puppy/223090-picking-perfect-breeder.html

The best of luck to you!!!

NewfieMom


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

NewfieMom said:


> Wow. I can buy a diamond on-line by its cert, as long as it is a GIA or an AGS, but I wouldn't dare to buy a dog that way! Do you know the breeder already? I think that you have to start there. I do not know you and I am new to this forum. You may be an old hand at this and already know the breeder backwards and forwards. I would want to be sure that the Golden Retriever organizations loved the breeder and that the breeder was known for producing the healthiest dogs before I looked at a pedigree. But, again, you may already have done this. I am new, as I said!
> 
> The best of luck to you!!!
> 
> NewfieMom


Huh?? Buy a dog what way?? She didnt say anything about the breeder..just an opinion on the pedigree. Nothing wrong with that as it does give information. Like health clearances, longevity, COI.. 

The sire is the product of a very tight line breeding..like half-brother/sister (mother is the same) so COI is high on him 30%.. The dam is not like that..so putting the two together may not be soo bad..but not sure how comfortable you feel on that. I would look at his offspring (he has alot) and see what has or hasnt happened with them.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Rugby, the dad, has some very nice pups out and about.... Probably a nice breeding...


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

My friend has a Rugby son and he is very pretty. 


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Here are the OFFA info for the sire and dam

Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

Both have CHIC numbers which is very good. The mom's eyes need to be updated. The breeder probably has them but has not sent them in. So, ask to see the current one if you decide on this litter.


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## NewfieMom (Sep 8, 2013)

OnMyWay2MyDreams said:


> *Huh?? Buy a dog what way?? She didnt say anything about the breeder..just an opinion on the pedigree. Nothing wrong with that as it does give information.* Like health clearances, longevity, COI..


Yes, well one lives and learns. Her posting alarmed me because the question about a pedigree appearing to come completely out of thin air made me wonder if _someone_ might be about to buy a dog from a breeder of whom he had never heard. (Later I saw that Momoftwins has been posting very actively in the section on breeders, but this one posting did not tell me that.)

Now that you have explained that people ask about pedigrees casually and that I should not assume that a question about a pedigree means that someone has not also investigated the breeder, I will know how to conduct myself better on dog fora


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Both look to have excellent pedigrees.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

NewfieMom said:


> Yes, well one lives and learns. Her posting alarmed me because the question about a pedigree appearing to come completely out of thin air made me wonder if _someone_ might be about to buy a dog from a breeder of whom he had never heard. (Later I saw that Momoftwins has been posting very actively in the section on breeders, but this one posting did not tell me that.)



Knowing the breeder is important, but depending on what you want (performance or pet), pedigree is probably even more important.


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## Momoftwins (Oct 18, 2013)

Hello to all, thank you for your help. I am just a normal mom trying to find a healthy pet for my family. I have seen many, many people ask for help on breeders and pedigrees. I have tried my best to learn all of the technicalities before asking directly. But, at a certain point I have to rely on people who know. Hence my request on the pedigree. 

This particular breeder and litter was recommended to me by the president of their local golden club. She said she would not hesitate at all, she sent me to her. I do not KNOW any breeders, as I am not a breeder myself, just a mom. After so many, many warnings about the health problems and questionable breeders/breedings, i am doing my best to do my "homework". I left out the breeder name because I wanted objective opinions on the pedigree itself. I posted the pedigree question under pedigree, and the breeder question under breeder.

This breeder is an active member of her club, and has been great to me. She is just not in my direct area, so thought I would reach out in the forum. There are sooooooooo many breeders in my area, none of them in our desired time frame. We were hoping to find a pup around Christmas/first of the year when my husband is off for a few weeks, so we could enjoy the pup as a family....help with house training, etc. We are willing to drive a few hours to make that happen. We will wait, no problem, just trying to see if this is a good option.

Thanks so much!


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Looks like a nice breeding.


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## Momoftwins (Oct 18, 2013)

Onmyway....that's what I was thinking, the coi is very high, that is my concern. I will look at the offspring. Just got an email back from my local club member who seems to think that the tight line breeding was done for a specific reason, and under the advisement of a very knowledgeable breeder. Still not sure.....

Ljack....what are CHIC numbers? I saw that about the eyes, I will ask.

Thanks so much for the feedback on rugby. 

Overall, would any of you go for this litter, or should I just wait? I value your expertise....

Thanks!


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## GoneTooSoon (Jul 21, 2011)

The Mother of the Dam is the same Mother of the Dam of my new puppy. So the Dam and my puppy's Dam are half sisters. It is just any FYI, do not know if this means anything. My puppy is very light and very healthy.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Momoftwins said:


> ... Just got an email back from my local club member who seems to think that the tight line breeding was done for a specific reason, and under the advisement of a very knowledgeable breeder. Still not sure.....




You really should call the breeder or email and ask what the specific goal is behind breeding this litter of puppies. It will tell you a lot.

I've seen your name on here a couple times doing research and I wanted to commend you for being so smart. WHen you realize that you're spending over a thousand dollars on a (hopefully) 12 year commitment with an animal who will live under your roof as a member of your family every single day, it's truly amazing how many of us 'just pet owners' rush into a new dog with such little research.

I am a stay at home mom with 3 kids and have had dogs all my life. I am definitely not the most knowledgeable person giving you input on this thread, but I did want to share a little bit I've learned because some of it I've learned the hard way. I have a Collie named Mack and a Golden named Ellie - Ellie is my 3rd Golden. (In the interest of full disclosure, Ellie is a 9 month old Fisher daughter and she is a dream come true, I waited two years for her.) 

You're on the right track looking for a breeder who is religious about health clearances and is showing their dogs in conformation. I have added some other criteria to my wish list for a good dog - I want a breeder who understands and cares about conformation because I want my Golden to look like a Golden Retriever. The other piece of the puzzle I have learned to care about is that I also want a breeder who is doing something more with their dogs. 

My ideal breeder is really into performance with their dogs. I want to find someone who is trying to breed puppies who are the whole package: They look like a Golden but aren't so grown over with coat that they can't swim and dry off, smart enough to train easily, not so crazy and high strung that it can't focus on you and what you're asking it to learn. I want someone who is trying to breed puppies who live to please their people and have the energy to make it fun but aren't so over the top crazy that they won't settle in the house unless they have a constant job to do. A breeder who values temperament and knows that a Golden who is dog aggressive is no fun to compete with in any venue and should not reproduce those genes no matter how beautiful or talented and athletic he is.

I hope that makes sense. It is extremely time consuming and expensive for people to do EVERYTHING with their dogs - conformation and performance. And it is challenging for a trainer to go outside their comfort zone and learn to train dogs for hunt tests or agility when all they've ever done is conformation and maybe a little obedience. Not every breeder can do it. But now that I've learned there are people out there who try to do it all with their dogs, I know their puppies are worth the wait. They don't breed every single year and they aren't perfect, this is nature after all as well as educated guesses, but they are striving for a Golden that looks and acts like a Golden and is as trainable and bright as a Golden should be. If you want a therapy dog, you need one who can go through basic obedience classes and be under your control, able to listen and pay attention. I would look for a breeder who is trying to breed obedience Goldens. 

My other comment is to make sure you interview your breeder closely as to how much time they spend with their puppies and how important it is to them to know individual personalities in their litters. Are they raised in the house and lots of human interaction EVERY day or are they in a laundry room with the door shut- yep, that's in the house, but it's not what I had in mind for puppy socialization. Very hands on breeders will really set you up for success by knowing their puppies very well and sending you home with a puppy whose personality is a good fit for your situation.

There are some really experienced people on this forum who I have a lot of respect for. If I needed a new puppy this year, I would be sending a PM to Hotel For Dogs/ Barb or K9-Design/ Anney and asking them for a lead on any breeders planning to use one of their dogs as a sire. Barb owns Tito and Anney owns Fisher, both of those boys have conformation titles and are owner trained and handled to a bunch of performance titles - and everyone who meets those dogs talks about how sweet they are. They are healthy and have clearances, I don't know how old Tito is now but Fisher is a senior and I am pretty sure that Barb is as careful as Anney about who she would allow to breed to her dog. Tell them what you're looking for and ask for a suggestion. They also know people and probably have pretty specific opinions about who to go to for a nice all around Golden. 

I am not a pedigree expert, do not know about the dogs you are asking about here, just thought I would tell you what I would do if it were me. I wish you the best of luck. Also, start researching now where your puppy is going to go for obedience classes. If you haven't had a chance to do that, it's never too early  Have fun!


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## NewfieMom (Sep 8, 2013)

nolefan said:


> I want to find someone who is trying to breed puppies who are the whole package: They look like a Golden but aren't so grown over with coat that they can't swim and dry off, smart enough to train easily, not so crazy and high strung that it can't focus on you and what you're asking it to learn. I want someone who is trying to breed puppies who live to please their people and have the energy to make it fun but aren't so over the top crazy that they won't settle in the house unless they have a constant job to do. A breeder who values temperament and knows that a Golden who is dog aggressive is no fun to compete with in any venue and should not reproduce those genes no matter how beautiful or talented and athletic he is.


Thank you so much, nolefan, for your insightful posting! I feel like printing it out and putting it up on my refrigerator. You are so wise!!!


NewfieMom


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## Momoftwins (Oct 18, 2013)

Nolefan.....Thank you soooooo much for your time in answering my post, I really do appreciate it. Also, thank you the confidence to keep going with this research, I am pretty much at my wit's end. I actually called this breeder today and she was wonderful. I asked her tough questions regarding coi and her breeding purposes. She has apparently been around for a very long time, and is well known in her area. I asked why the mom hasn't been in confirmation or anything at all really, she said she is just "softer" and wouldnt be happy showing. I just want to make sure they will train easily in my home, nothing more. She is very familiar with each and every puppy. They live in her house, all of her goldens do. She said everything I was looking to hear, as far as love and affection given to them already. I think at this point I will just follow my gut 

Thanks so much again


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Something else that's important is what the breeder does to socialize the pups before they go home. I would ask about that. 


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

And I think the dam of the litter would have been bred to my boy, if his sperm count would have been better  Elaine is a really sweet person. If she was honest with you and gave you answers, and you feel comfortable with it...I'd Say Congrats!!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

looks like a nice breeding to me

I have a Hug The Rug t shirt for Rugby that is cute and funny. Meet the mom in person and make sure her temperament is wonderful. If so, I would go for this litter.


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## Momoftwins (Oct 18, 2013)

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you! Did I say thank you yet? I will definitely meet the mom. Elaine seems to care very much about her dogs. She said she spends all day with her puppies, described them all in depth with adorable stories. The mom's sister is a service dog to a dr that had a stroke. The Mom's mom is Soarin (Am Ch. Gorca's Free-Flying Adventure), who Elaine also owns. I will ask about socializing, thanks!

Kfayard, I am so glad you posted. You are the only person who knows Elaine. Thank you!!


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