# AKC VS UKC----Why?



## St. Louis (May 28, 2012)

What does the UKC offer that the AKC does not? What do you think are the advantages of each organization?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

If you are showing... there are a lot more AKC events for starters.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

This is my warped take on it. UKC is more owner handler friendly, and all around less pressure. AKC is the big show, the bigger stage, more rigorous and competitive. UKC would be a great venue for practice , except for the sticking point that it ignores AKC limited registrations that an AKC breeder means as a no breed/no show contract. Because of that, we do not participate in UKC. If that ever changes, then it would be fun to work young dogs there with less pressure


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I agree with Jill. UKC would be a fun venue to try, except for the limited registration thing.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

UKC is a wonderful place to,get practice. For example, last time I showed my pup she went into the puppy class and won. Then she went into the Best Female class and won. Then she went against the Best Male and won. So finally she was up for BOB and lost! To another one of my dogs. Anyway that was a lot of practice for me! And her! As a person who is not comfortable with running and stacking, it gives me lots of practice. This year, I have met two longtime breeders( and well respected breeders) of Goldens who are also doing it for experience... The people that I know and talk to are not doing it to get around AKC limited registration... And although the AKC has made me a Breeder of Merit in their system, there are things that I do not agree with... The HVB breeders who register pups and sell to pet stores... For one thing... And yes, in terms of titles, it is much easier to attain. My Basil became a UKC Ch in three straight shows, and is 3/5 of the way to a GrCh. 
My puppy finished in five shows at nine months. I also find that people root for each other and one of the golden breeders said that she would enter her dogs as well in subsequent shows so we could compete for Gr Ch. Until you have experienced it.... And years ago, I let a Jr Handler take my dogs to get experience.....


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## Game Boy (Mar 21, 2011)

Personally, I love UKC. Being newer to the confirmation world, I see that I will never have a chance to win going into the AKC ring because I am not a professional or a well know person on the circuit following the judges around the country. I am doing this to further bond with my dog and not ship him/her out to someone to get a title. I am proud to tell people that I have accomplished UKC Champion and 3/5 for GR Champion. It has been fun and everyone there, is supportive. I have been in the AKC ring with professional handlers pushing up on you in the ring to spook your dog and make you and your dog look bad. For me, I do not consider that good sportsmanship. I have also seen many dogs in AKC win that (again, in my opinion) are not fit to win. They only win because of the face on the other end. I will still show in ACK but I look at it as more experience for both me and my dog. I understand what everyone says about the limited registration but why does ACK allow breeders to give full registration without full clearances in the pedigree? I don't see the difference.


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## Lucky Penny (Nov 13, 2011)

UKC is great for beginners and anyone wanting more experience. No paid handlers are allowed, so more owner handlers complete against each other. The shows are usually more laid back and less stressful. The judges even offer great advice when asked. It is great to bring self esteem up and one will not throw money away for a title he or she may never get. Titles come easier and it is more fun all around.

AKC is a lot stricter and there are a lot of professor handlers. (obedience and rally too!) It is more expensive to get titles in AKC. A lot of people recognize AKC titles over UKC titles, and you will get some who will talk badly about UKC for the whole limited registration thing. Honestly there is a lot to talk badly about with AKC as well. Any organization isn't 100% perfect, it will always have faults.

I like both organizations. UKC is great for me, because I get LOTS of practice and it brings my self esteem up. I also don't spend my whole pay check on it. I like AKC because it is very impressive to have AKC titles, and fun to earn them! I almost think UKC is a fun thing to do before AKC.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I do not think that observations about UKC or AKC are black or white...


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

I'm not understanding the limited registration thing. I understand that with AKC limited registration the dog's not supposed to be bred (or shown in AKC events?) but why would you care if you're full AKC registered dog is competing against dogs with only limited registration in UKC?


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

What it is is that AKC limited registered dogs can get full UKC registration to compete in conformation. Those who speak out against UKC need to show me how UKC is ruining it for AKC with limited registration. The golden people as well as so many others with different breeds are not showing dogs in UKC with limited registration (at least in the Northeast). We are having fun and getting experience. Matches for conformation are few and far between up here!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

TheZ's said:


> I'm not understanding the limited registration thing. I understand that with AKC limited registration the dog's not supposed to be bred (or shown in AKC events?) but why would you care if you're full AKC registered dog is competing against dogs with only limited registration in UKC?


That's not the issue. 

You have breeders who only sell puppies on limited registration - to protect the puppies from falling into the hands of people who will breed them. If you have limited registration, you can't produce papered puppies with your dog. 

The UKC does not recognize the limited registration from AKC. They allow people to fully register their dogs with them - hence produce dogs with papers. 

This causes headaches for certain breeders who are very protective of their puppies and their lines.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Megora said:


> That's not the issue.
> 
> You have breeders who only sell puppies on limited registration - to protect the puppies from falling into the hands of people who will breed them. If you have limited registration, you can't produce papered puppies with your dog.
> 
> ...


But those people, and I have seen MANY will ignore the limited registration and sell dogs not AKC and without clearances. "Papers" or not will not change those who truly do not care.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Sally's Mom said:


> But those people, and I have seen MANY will ignore the limited registration and sell dogs not AKC and without clearances. "Papers" or not will not change those who truly do not care.


I know.... 

I do think there are people who are savvy to the fact people might not buy a puppy with CKC (continental kennel club) or whatever other random rubber stamp club that people register their brood dogs under.... but would buy a puppy with UKC registration, particularly if the parents are UKC champions etc.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Just curious -- do breeders ever grant their not-quite show quality pups (with limited registration with the AKC) full registration with UKC to show for fun?


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Honestly, if a pup I bred had an owner who decided to show in UKC with AKC limited registration and opened my eyes, I would re evaluate...my guys in theory are sold with spay neuter contracts. And that is where you can follow up...


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

The breeder doesn't have to be involved if you want to get UKC registration. And you can show your dog in conformation, obedience.... and whatever else.  

My instructor keeps pushing me to get Jacks registered so I can get his UKC cd and rally titles. And the turn around is fairly quick.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Megora, the problem is that even if you sell AKC pups with limited registration, they might still breed them...


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

One of my instructors also suggested I show in UKC obedience and rally for general experience but my contract with Molly's breeder states she may not be registered with any registry other than AKC and CKC. I don't care much about UKC obedience and rally, but I did want to enter in UKC hunt tests along with AKC. Oh well..


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Vhuynh2 said:


> One of my instructors also suggested I show in UKC obedience and rally for general experience but my contract with Molly's breeder states she may not be registered with any registry other than AKC and CKC. I don't care much about UKC obedience and rally, but I did want to enter in UKC hunt tests along with AKC. Oh well..
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


Is she on limited registration?


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Sally's Mom said:


> Is she on limited registration?


Yes, and she is spayed. I was only interested in UKC hunt tests. Her breeder has really strong feelings about UKC as a registry, so I will just accept that.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Sally's Mom said:


> Megora, the problem is that even if you sell AKC pups with limited registration, they might still breed them...


But having to sell puppies without papers is a deterrent at least. 

@V - I think you should talk to your breeder since it's in your contract. Something my instructor has drilled in my head about.... obviously too late for Jacks, but you can show in UKC obedience now get her titles and still show in the AKC at the A level, even though your dog has all that experience.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

That's a shame, HRC is supposed to be a blast


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

You can register with UKC with altered dogs. When I got into UKC by the woman who was showing my dogs in AKC, I also registered my dogs who were altered They have altered on their registration...


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

@Janice - do they have show classes for altered dogs? I thought I saw something like that when I was looking at a program for the Premier here in MI?


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## hvgoldens4 (Nov 25, 2009)

Sally's Mom said:


> Megora, the problem is that even if you sell AKC pups with limited registration, they might still breed them...


Yes, that is true. There may be people with AKC limited registration papers that could breed their dog. However, the AKC will not allow them to register the dogs offspring. The problem is, you can take a dog on AKC limited, get a UKC full registration, breed the dog and register the litter with the UKC. This totally destroys the AKC's limited registration that the breeder had sold the puppy on. Because of this, I personally will not support the UKC.

I am coming at things from a bit of a different angle with conformation. I started in goldens many moons ago doing competitive obedience. However, I then wanted to try conformation and so I got another dog that I could do conformation with. My obedience dog was a wonderful dog and I loved him dearly but he was basically from a BYB(although the parents did have clearances) I have been an owner handler and now an owner/breeder/handler in AKC shows for many years. Yes, there are some politics involved. But there are politics in every facet of our lives. Not every judge and every show is coming down to politics or I would never be able to finish a dog and I have finished quite a few to their AKC championships, AKC group placements and AKC Grand Champions. As an owner, I am not getting any "favors"/political wins. I am a middle aged woman who has long since seen slim, trim and full of vim , so no favors there, either. So, I guess it must be the dog is the reason why I win!!  It can be done. It takes a lot of time and a lot of work learning to groom and train the dog to show. But, it is very rewarding to have the judge point to you as the winner!!! I enjoy spending time with my friends at the shows and also spending time with my dogs. I find it very rewarding to be an AKC owner handler.

Plus, the AKC now has a new Owner Handler Series where only owner handlers compete against each other after Best Of Breed is awarded. Currently, our boy Detour-GCH Harborview Under Construction is the number 1 owner handled golden in the U.S. At the end of tabulating year, the Top 10 Owner Handled dogs for each breed get invited to compete at Eukanuba during the Owner Handler Series there. Fingers crossed that we will make it!!!!!!!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Does anyone have instances where dogs have AKC limited registration on dogs with UKC registration where those UKC dogs have gone on to reproduce? And is it so black and white? At what point breeding dogs does one decide what is ok to breed a dog any way? So is it the GRCA recommendations.? Or is it going the extra step and doing the Optigen testing? What in anyone's opinion does a registration mean? As a vet, I,see numerous small breeds with luxating patellas whose owners breed the,dogs any way and they are AKC.....


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Megora said:


> @V - I think you should talk to your breeder since it's in your contract. Something my instructor has drilled in my head about.... obviously too late for Jacks, but you can show in UKC obedience now get her titles and still show in the AKC at the A level, even though your dog has all that experience.


I did speak with her and like I said, she has very strong feelings about it so I won't push it and I'll leave it at that. I may just get my experience by obtaining the first two legs for RN and BN and then show in Novice A. 



Loisiana said:


> That's a shame, HRC is supposed to be a blast


It's a bit of a bummer. Well, if I continue doing field work I'll definitely know what to look out for in the contract when looking for my next pup.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Megora, they do have altered classes in conformation. Obedience, obviously, it does not matter...


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## hvgoldens4 (Nov 25, 2009)

Sally's Mom said:


> Does anyone have instances where dogs have AKC limited registration on dogs with UKC registration where those UKC dogs have gone on to reproduce? And is it so black and white? At what point breeding dogs does one decide what is ok to breed a dog any way? So is it the GRCA recommendations.? Or is it going the extra step and doing the Optigen testing? What in anyone's opinion does a registration mean? As a vet, I,see numerous small breeds with luxating patellas whose owners breed the,dogs any way and they are AKC.....


Yes, I know of two instances where this was done and the breeders were not very happy about it, for obvious reasons. The breeders spoke with the UKC about it and the UKC did not care.

As to it being black and white about breeding, etc., I know you have breed some litters and have mentioned that you have sold them on AKC limited reg/spay/neuter contracts. I know I would be very upset personally if someone did this with one of my dogs without my consent and I have language in my contracts to address this. I suppose you would have to ask yourself how you would feel if the same happened to a puppy that you had sold.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I,have seen so many Goldens bred without clearances and AKC registration. Honestly, there are many people out there that either do not care or will ignore it..


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

And even after I council clients about what to look for and what to ask, they still do what they were going to do in the first place... Ignore me and my recommendations .


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

hvgoldens4 said:


> YHowever, not every judge and every show is coming down to politics or I would never be able to finish a dog and I have finished quite a few to their AKC champions, AKC group placements and AKC Grand Champions. As an owner, I am not getting any favors. I am a middle aged woman who has long since seen slim, trim and full of vim , so no favors there, either. So, I guess it must be the dog is the reason why I win!!  It can be done. It takes a lot of time and a lot of work learning to groom and train the dog to show. But, it is very rewarding to have the judge point to you as the winner!!!


Yes, that is a good point. Many owner handlers succeed in AKC when they have outstanding dogs, and Jenn is a good example of that. I love to watch Lisa Dunn show Miss MoneyPenny. I can think of 20 owner handlers who regularly beat the pros and politics without effort. I think the main thing for AKC is to have a dog not too much in gray area between pet and show quality, a dog with both good structure and excellent breed type- both are needed. I think UKC would be more fun/less expensive for a dog in the gray area. My beautiful dog Copley was in the grey area. I am sure UKC would have been a more fun way to start.

I don't have anything against UKC dog sports, except I think they should not allow UKC breeders to register AKC limited dogs. The other reason I can't do UKC is just a free time issue. I think whatever people do with dogs is great. People always bring up doing APDT Rally too. I wish I had time to do some of these things, but I know it will be five years before I have that kind of free dogs time. My AKC goals come first to me, and I have to teach many classes to afford them, so not extra time to try some wonderful things.


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