# Normal for his age, or a problem behavior?



## KellySue301 (Aug 8, 2014)

Hello everyone! Ryder has officially hit the 1 year mark as of May 15th. He's a great dog; smart, funny, a goofball...basically everything you would expect a Golden to be. However he has one major issue we have not been able to overcome, even though he has been in obedience classes since he was 12 weeks old. He is just obsessed with meeting/greeting other dogs, to the extent that any and all training goes right out the window. On his own Ryder is so well behaved. Listens to his recall (most) of the time, does "leave it" with no problem..we can sit on out front stoop with dogs walking right past us down the sidewalk, I will hold his collar to be safe, but he just sits and watches them pass by with seemingly no interest. He is so calm at home unless we initiate play time with him. Even out in public areas where he is off leash he will have his initial burst of energy for 10 minutes, and then he becomes disinterested and would rather lay and chew a stick if we are by ourselves.

The problem arises when we are on walks either in the neighborhood or on trails. We frequent a local lake with miles of walking trails, but a portion of this lake is dubbed by the locals as "Dog Beach". Basically its an unofficial dog park with a huge lake where all the dogs swim. Ryder absolutely loves it, we have been bringing him there since he was a puppy. But since its been nice out and we have been bringing him to the lake, he has been showing a habit of running right up into other dogs' faces whether or not they are interested in him. Even on leash walking the trails, he will see a dog approaching and begin nearly pulling my arm off to get right up in their face to attempt to initiate play and this more often than not leads to the other dog growling, cowering away, etc. but it barely ever leads to them actually wanting to play with him. For instance, we went to the lake today and there were 3 other black Labs there. One was 2 yrs old, the other two a bit older. He would not leave the 2 yr old alone and would chase her endlessly, biting her neck and face and that's when I leash him up and leave the area. He has been getting worse with this behavior..it is how he plays now, for some reason. The biting, the endless chasing to try and get them to play as hardcore as he does..he seems to always be the worst behaved wherever we go. Also thought I should mention Ryder was neutered at 11 months. However, many dogs will hump him. Mostly males, but there is a female pitbull that humps him too. The dogs that do this are altered, unaltered...either way, he seems to get humped quite a lot. He usually just stands there and takes it. 

Now we also go to a separate off leash dog park at the training facility where he has been taking his obedience classes and he is the one getting picked on there, to the point he runs to the little pool they have to get the other dogs off of him. There is one dog in particular (American Bulldog) that he LOVES to play with, and man do they play rough. But Ryder loves it! Should I discourage this play? I don't know how else to get him to act better with other dogs other than to expose him to them..we are about to start Level 3 obedience class which involves going to local trails to try and train how to properly walk in public, but I fear it will be nearly impossible to stop him from focusing on the other dogs in the class as well as on the trails.

Sorry for the length, just feeling at my wits end to the point where I don't even want to bring him out of our yard. (Though we don't have a fenced in yard, so we rely on these public areas for his main source of exercise.)


----------



## Doug (Jul 17, 2010)

Ah what a cutie pie 

Goldens are social creatures so his behaviour is totally normal especially at this energetic age. Expecting him not to react to another dog is too high of an expectation at this point.

However I have learned through this forum and through my own experience to be very cautious around dogs that we do not know well. By allowing your dog to go up to strange dogs you are increasing your chances of a vicious incident especially when he approaches so boldly. All it will take is one fearful dog to be confronted and you will regret it deeply.

Yes they love other dogs but put them on a leash and we keep walking, we give no energy to it and most of the time they do not either. "Nothing to see here."

I do not encourage any form of hard core rough play not even between my two at home. The good news is that he will settle but unfortunately we will need to wait a few years for that. Try not to expect too much from him too soon otherwise you will be left feeling disappointed.

You could try the easy walker harness to help correct the lunging in the meantime.


----------



## KellySue301 (Aug 8, 2014)

Thanks for the reply! Yes he is so cute, but not to these poor other dogs! I don't blame them for growling and snapping when he gets in their faces, in fact I wish more would other than letting him walk all over them so he learns that not every dog wants to see him. He was attacked by a rottie at the lake a few weeks ago, but I had him off to the side to let the rottie and his yellow lab friend to pass by us and Ryder was of course pulling to see them and I said he is friendly, the other owners said their dogs were too, so we let them meet and as soon as they did the rottie started attacking him and Ryder rolled over right onto his back and didn't move. Luckily the owner got her dog off, but he grabbed Ryder's tail as we were trying to walk away and ripped a few strands off him. So I guess we can't even trust when other owners say their dog IS friendly!

Oh believe me I attempt to just walk past the people with other dogs and not even allow Ryder the chance to meet them but he pulls so hard and the trails aren't very wide so he ends up getting his face in there if even for a split second. I think he is way too much for most dogs to handle, energy wise. There is a boxer that comes to the lake once in a while and they play chase endlessly. I think she really matches his energy well. I just don't like this new found extremely rough play where he just is relentlessly biting the other dogs' face, legs, anything really. But thank you, it's good to know he will hopefully grow out of most of this and calm down with age!

Edit to add: we actually do have that harness, among many others LOL, in order to curb this pulling. He is really good on walks in the neighborhood (unless he sees another dog) with it but I don't use it on the trails because I want him to be able to run and swim without constraint when I do let him off the leash, so I only have a collar on him when hiking. And if he does see a dog with it on when walking in our neighborhood, it doesn't matter what harness he's wearing he will pull regardless unfortunately.


----------



## AoifeRollo (Jun 1, 2015)

Your dog sounds like a lot of fun, but it sounds like he doesn't really know how to act around other dogs. For dogs, getting up in another dog's face, even if his intent is to initiate play, is very rude. Knowing that your dog is going to behave rudely, which may initiate an aggressive response from the other dog, it's your responsibility to not allow introductions with other dogs until you've had a chance to work with a trainer on his behavior. Your dog is friendly and just wants to play, but he's initiating play in a way that can elicit negative responses from other dogs, and it's safer for him to not interact at all if you don't know the other dog.


----------



## AoifeRollo (Jun 1, 2015)

And I don't mean my response to be mean at all. I have one very rude dog, so we have to monitor closely all doggy interactions and restrict him to interacting with dogs that we've had a chance to do formal introductions with.


----------



## Doug (Jul 17, 2010)

They really are just like boisterous children aren't they?

Just like children as guardians we need to protect them from dire consequences since they don't know any better. We would not let our children go up into others faces and bite them and we shouldn't allow that with our pups. It is a hassle to pull them back but if they can't play nicely then privileges are removed until they reach maturity. It is hard to believe right now but they do calm down 

Goldens are known for their excessive greeting syndrome. However I personally strongly dislike being rushed by a strange dog especially since we have been attacked out of the blue before so out of courtesy and respect for others we leash our dogs when we see another dog coming and step to the side and allow the other dog to pass or we move by swiftly. 

It is up to the owner as the advanced/intelligent being to control the dog not for the other dogs to be put in a position to defend themselves.

Oh and sadly no you cannot trust people when they say that their dog is friendly.


----------



## KellySue301 (Aug 8, 2014)

Thanks again to both of you for the feedback. Yes, I agree that he is very rude and I don't know how this ended up being the case because he was socialized so much when he was very young in order to avoid anything like this from happening. We went hiking again today and I think the main way I will have to tackle this is by sitting him down and letting the other dog/people pass (he lunges up at just people passing too). Otherwise he is able to pull me way too much and it's too hard to gain his focus. Exactly, we always leash him up if we see another dog approaching. He is offleash at the lake area so he can run and swim, but most all other dogs end up running there ahead of their owners off their own leashes.

Would you all suggest I refrain from bringing Ryder to the dog park at the facility where he gets his training? While he loves it, I really think he's been picking up bad habits from the dogs there. He never did this face biting thing with other dogs until he began playing with that American Bulldog. It just doesn't leave him alone, and grabs him by the collar constantly and pulls him by it. Ryder really doesn't seem to mind though, he gives it right back to the other dog by biting his face and ears, but I think this is the way he's beginning to think is the only way to play.


----------



## Doug (Jul 17, 2010)

I think that it is really important to get a lot of off leash exercise so Ryder is a very lucky boy 
Handling it responsibly is setting him up for success will prevent a lot of heart ache  

If need be you could also try to step on the leash to ground him when others pass by or I have even found wrapping the leash around a pole or tree once or twice while still holding on to the end is a good way to gain control. It is amazing how incredibly strong they are!

Time and time again this forum reminds me that dog parks are a no no as inevitably all it takes is one unbalanced dog in one moment of time to create a disaster. Through this forum I also learned about the dangers of dogs playing with their collars on. My two no longer wear collars at home as jaws can get caught underneath and twisted with tragic consequences. There is no way I would let my dogs play at a dog park where they have no escape route and definitely not if another dog even touched their collar. However, this is my personal choice based on my personal experiences and from what I have learned here  

My "nothing to see here" approach has made my two more respectful of other dogs. Now when they are off a leash they are able to pass by and continue on their way (most of the time ) My girl is currently 10 months old and my boy is 5. They have been taught that there is no need to approach every human and every dog even though I am certain that they would absolutely love to. 

They know that when the circumstances are right they are free to play... which includes a good old game of bitey face and ear pulling but only with each other, never a dog that they do not know well. 

I do like the way Caesar Milan reads the state of mind of the dogs he is working with. One day Ryder will realise that he does not need to greet every dog with such enthusiasm and maybe one day soon at the end of a tiring walk he may be able to approach another dog in a calm and relaxed manner just to say hi as you walk by.


----------



## SwimDog (Sep 28, 2014)

At what distance can he see people/dogs and walk calmly?

Do you have a few friends with dogs who could help you out?

Find a big soccer field or parking lot, walk past the stationary helper dog at a huge distance, reward often, work your way closer very gradually.

Most dogs who are boisterous (not reactive) can get right past the helper dog in the first session. In additional sessions you can repeat with a different dog, or use the same dog but have him walking slowly (then faster, then playing a little, etc).

It shouldn't take very long, but is hard if you can't find a good helper dog.


----------



## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

Gorgeous dog!! I am just wondering about your dog school. Our School taught Buddy from a very early age, as soon as the socialisation phase was over, not to sniff or approach other dogs unless invited to by me. This was a permanant feature of the classes every week and any play off leash between dogs before or after class was prohibited. Buddy is 9 months and can now walk in a field of dogs off leash to heel without getting distracted (95 percent of the time). When we hike he mostly sits down and waits for a dog to pass when he sees one coming. We live in France where there are no dog parks. But when I want him to play, with some of the neighbourhood dogs, i tell him "go play" and he's off. So just wondering if the classes are the right ones for your chap. Not wanting to come over as a "know all"! Buddy has so many faults that I am working on (poop eating GROSSSSS) but he understands perfectly how to leave other dogs alone, all thanks to the fantastic teachers at the obedience class. Regards!


----------



## KellySue301 (Aug 8, 2014)

Doug - I certainly agree! If Ryder never got his off leash exercise he would probably go absolutely insane! Stepping on the leash or tying it around a tree is a good idea, will have to try that one. I have been reading up on this dog park business on the forum and wow so many people despise them! Maybe we should try to go on days that his "friend" that tugs his collar isn't there. He does really well with all the other dogs, and everyone is so vigilant on keeping their dogs in check there. I wish I would have taught Ryder at a younger age that not _all _people need to be greeted! Maybe I socialized him TOO much! We went to the lake today and by coincidence a friend from the dog park was there and so we walked together to Dog Beach. Ryder did so well with her - a quick greeting when we first met up, and then as we walked he just sniffed along the trail as usual and really didn't bother with her too much. Once we got to the swimming area they played and had a blast. Some instances of face-tugging, but I corrected as soon as he did it and it only happened once or twice. Several other dogs showed up and of course he ran right up to them (they were already off their leashes as well) but he did greet them quite well. I really do think the running right into their faces thing will go away with age, he is just so excited and happy that he runs at full speed and almost runs right into them. With these other new dogs he would bite their faces and cheeks a little, but I corrected every time and had him sit out for a time out for a bit. He seems to do it when he gets extremely excited. Also, he tends to pick on certain dogs more than others and really bug the crap out of them. I noticed he does it to dogs that seem to be overwhelmed by him and somewhat nervous. Ryder tries to get them to play, but his version of play is much too rough for them.

SwimDog - Ryder is good up until about 3 feet away. Before that he slows down and is very alert, walking slower and anticipating the people and/or dogs approaching us. Actually today I put him in a sit off to the side of the trail when a runner was passing by and he did great, no lunging or anything. However his pittie friend that was with us did exactly that! I think Ryder did so well because he had burned off pretty much all of his energy playing and swimming. Unfortunately we are new to our area and we don't know anyone with a non-reactive dog! I wish we did though, that is a great idea.

BuddyInFrance - No worries, you don't come off that way at all! Our instructor discourages any meeting as much as possible, as some dogs in class are aggressive rather than friendly. However at the end of our Level 2 training there was only Ryder and one other dog (Great Dane) in class, and since it was the last session and they are both very friendly, our instructor let them run and play in the enclosed training area. However all throughout every single class that is Ryder's issue - he is so interested and focused on meeting the other dogs in class that it is so hard to get his attention on me. We will see how Level 3 training goes; it is a class where we go hiking on trails and the instructor is teaching us how to properly pass people/dogs (exactly what Ryder needs!).


----------



## SwimDog (Sep 28, 2014)

Can you get together with the pittie friend to do training/passing/etc? And because he sometimes likes to jump on people you could even use friends without dogs. Promise them lunch in exchange for some help.

3' is very close - so you'll be able to find plenty of opportunities to work on reliability at 5 and 6' away from strangers etc, and then closer when it's friends who know an occasional (very occasional!) mistake may happen.


----------

