# Temporary neutering



## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

I want to start off by saying I've never heard of this. I'm sure there are instances for medical reasons, that this injection might be of use but not for the reasons you stated - problems with recall, excited when meeting other dogs and sniffing everything. Those are all common behaviors for a 17 m.o. Neutering is not going to change these behaviors only training and maturity will.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

All my husband's previous dogs were intact. No shots or anything. They only shots given were for the female dog so she can hunt while in heat. He has trained them not to roam around and stay in our yard with no electric fences - pretty expensive to do that on two acres of land. 
While I give him credit for all his training I also believe that it depends on the dog. It also helped him a lot by having more than one dog. He put most effort with the first one and then each new dog learned from the older one along with his training. 
I never heard of that shot or any sideeffects. I will aks my vet and see what they say. I would like to know myself especially that we plan to get a male dog in less than two years. 
I am sure that many experts on this site will have great inputs.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I just recently heard of that injection, but don't know much about it.
Personally, I would have him permanently neutered now, if you were planning on having him neutered in the future anyway and work on his training. 
I agree neutering will not solve such problems but I think he is old enough to be neutered now, IF that is what you are worried about.


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## Sokokomo (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks for the input. 
Cgriffin, I was hoping to keep him entire if possible, I don't like the idea of changing their personalities for potentially the worse, the additional health problem stats. The only reason for thinking about this is the temporary benefit, to switch him into listening to me, able to work on his training without the hormones during the peak of his adolescence. But I don't want any of this to affect him negatively and sorta of the idea that if t isn't broken don't try and fix it. He isn't a bad dog, just very independent, but always has been since before his hormones ever kicked in. ClaudiaM I think you are right about older dogs providing a good example, unfortunately he is an only dog!
Willow52 I understand about the training and I don't want it to be an excuse for that. I'm just glad you said about maturity, this is my first dog and no idea how he'll act when he's older. I suppose he is still very young in his head and with the added hormones it is at its worst now. But I've also heard that Goldens (especially hyper Goldens) never grow up..so I'm still none the wiser. 
Surprises nobody has heard of the injection for males, there is also an implant Superlornin but this lasts for 6 months so less temporary. 
Doe anyone else think that neutering causes behavioural issues that weren't there before?


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## Boscorelli (Sep 25, 2010)

i have not heard of Tardak, but am familiar with Suprelorin.
Suprelorin is also used for temporary neutering and last about 6 months and can be repeated if required.
It is an implant which is simply injected under the skin, a bit like a microchip.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I don't think that anybody suggests that neutering causes behavioral issues.
I have two neutered males and no issues whatsoever.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Sokokomo said:


> ...He is a lovely dog and part of me thinks that because he isn't aggressive now, and all his behaviour comes through excitability and play, to leave him be and hope he grows up once he is through the adolescent stage. ...


You answered your own question. All of the behavior you have trouble with is correctable with training. If the methods you are using have not worked, find another trainer and try some different TRAINING methods. I do not believe a hormone injection will remove bad habits. 17 months old is the teenage brat stage. I really encourage you to find another trainer and get some different suggestions/methods for training.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

I do want to add. Sometimes we think our dogs really understand more than they do. I say this often but dogs don't generalize to different situations well. When we get into places with more distractions sometimes we have to go back a few steps in our training in those situations to make it really clear what we expect the dog to do. Young dogs can always use more work on focus and impulse control. Set him up for success by working these type of training games in quiet places then slowly move to more exciting places. 
One other thing that happens is once we assume our dog knows the rules sometimes we actually slack off and are not as consistent in what we accept from them which then unintentionally tells them that sometimes inappropriate behavior can be acceptable. We also get sloppy in our signals and requests to our dogs. So when a dog that we think knows something well doesn't follow our requests we need to examine our own signals/cues and verbal requests as we may not be being clear.

I don't know enough about the shot you are looking into. How long have they really been using this? What studies have they done long term on any side effects to the dogs this is done to? In their studies have they followed a group of dogs through their entire life that have used these shots?


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Just go have him neutered, and keep training. 
This whole neutering/age thing is making people paranoid.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

This is a training issue not a hormonal one - the longer you continue to link his lack of attention and lack of responsiveness to his testicles the more days/weeks/months will pass in which he will continue to practice and perfect bad habits...

To me, it make no sense to chemically suppress his hormones with injections month after month after month - any health benefits you are trying to reap by keeping him whole dissapear with each injection...


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## Sokokomo (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm not sure about the studies behind it to be honest, I think because it is seen as temporary they assume no side effects, but like you say, don't know about health effects later.
K9-Design, may I ask what benefits you see to neutering in my case? Which issues do you think it will address for us? Much literature written by vets has seemingly pointed out the removal of hormones causing nervousness, aggression (probably fearful related) and generally a change in personality. Obviously only in a few cases as I do believe most pet dogs are neutered routinely now. But if it isn't going to change Leo's behaviour (either positively or negatively), and only training will do that, why run the risk?
Obviously I have answered my own question here, Mylissyk, you are quite right. Both with the temporary and permanent versions of neutering! That is of course if these behaviours are down to a lack of training, (we've been to training class every week since he was 12 weeks old  and consistently train every day  ), focus and leadership. I do hope he is just in the bratty stage, but I can honestly say he has never been any different, from 2-3 months old to now. 
Anyway I've turned this into a training thread when really it was to ask about this injection, so if anybody has anymore input on the neutering/temporary neutering debate please share


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

You have a healthy dog, why are you injecting him with anything other than a vaccine?

The situation isn't really any more complicated than that question implies.

Personally, I don't neuter either. It's a temporary surgery that drastically alters a dog's hormonal makeup for life. Unless he's got testicular cancer, I don't really see any possible benefit that would mitigate the negatives or justify the risks of an unnecessary (albeit relatively routine) surgery. You don't see human doctors taking out tonsils or appendixes just because- they only do it if there are problems.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

cgriffin said:


> I don't think that anybody suggests that neutering causes behavioral issues.
> I have two neutered males and no issues whatsoever.


I have to respectfully disagree with this. My male was fine with any intact male dog hes met, he never batted and eye when another dog was acting aggressive towards him. After he was neutered, some dogs hes never bothered with he wants to eat now, specifically one intact male that always shows him aggression. My training methods have not changed from when he was intact to when he was neutered so I do believe neutering played a part. 

Taking away a vital part of a dogs system can devastate them. Some are not bothered by neutering, some are...like mine. This is just my stance on the subject as a whole. I am in no means stating everyone should keep their dogs intact. In fact, I believe 99% of the worlds population should be fixed themselves let alone their dogs 

Owning an intact dog is a huge responsibility, something I have proven more then once I am capable of dealing with. I never had a problem with any intact males, but have had issues with a neutered one.

If your worried about breeding and want to shush the "zomg spay/neuter or your dog will breed!!!!!!!!!!!" people...have a vasectomy done on him that way he cant produce a litter but gets to keep his hormones. Sure, the tubes could eventually warp back together or whatever it does and the dog will become able to produce pups, but....thats a huge what ifs that people will use to try to justify a good enough reason to not do that and just neuter. Kinda like how I say the risk of testicular cancer is less then 1% so why even factor that into my decision....


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I am not saying she should neuter, I am just speaking from experience that my dogs are no different after neutering. My Golden is still intact and he never had any issues either and he has never been acting up. He is just a big baby.
I am not casting stones. I just never have encountered a dog having issues after neutering, that's all. 
For irresponsible pet owners, which are very prevalent in the outside world (and my neighborhood), I would still recommend spaying/neutering at appropriate ages. Kill shelters are full of unwanted puppies.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

cgriffin said:


> I am not saying she should neuter, I am just speaking from experience that my dogs are no different after neutering. My Golden is still intact and he never had any issues either and he has never been acting up. He is just a big baby.
> I am not casting stones. I just never have encountered a dog having issues after neutering, that's all.
> For irresponsible pet owners, which are very prevalent in the outside world (and my neighborhood), I would still recommend spaying/neutering at appropriate ages. Kill shelters are full of unwanted puppies.



I never said you were casting stones . I agree, many should spay/neuter and I know a few myself that I wish would fix their pets. Especially my ex that let his dog get his brothers 12 year old Golden pregnant because he "doesnt have the time to watch them"

I truly believe that neutering has caused some health issues for my dog. I know most people will just say its impossible that removing a vital part of a dogs body can cause any issues but I dont think they are realistic. But thats just me. Opinions are a wonderful thing.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

"I have a 17month old tear away who hasn't heard of a recall (despite 15 months of constant training), very over excited with other dogs, and can't stop sniffing everywhere.

I hope that if I have it done he will listen to me more, not be as distracted with sniffing to want to do a recall. And also that he will stop his excitable lunging and wanting to play with other dogs (he's too heavy for me and when he digs his heels in on a walk I can't move him and is giving me a bad back). He is also likely to cause trouble with dogs that aren't friendly as he does an initial submissive greeting but launches onto them to play without reading their body language, which has caused some scuffles. He is the instigator of play, but they are the instigator of aggression back at him (rightly so

That is of course if these behaviours are down to a lack of training, (we've been to training class every week since he was 12 weeks old  and consistently train every day  ), focus and leadership. I do hope he is just in the bratty stage, but I can honestly say he has never been any different, from 2-3 months old to now."

Just to be clear my opinion is not that there is a lack of training. From your posts you have been training your dog all along. But it sounds like at this time you are getting the responses you want. I do think you need to get your dog to focus on you in all situations. This isn't easy. You have to be more rewarding than anything that presents itself in your dogs vision/view in each instance. That is why I say to re-evaluate and work on steps back further in the training to build up to that level.

If your dog doesn't come on the recall then something else is more rewarding than you are. It is your job to make yourself more rewarding so that your dog wants to come to you. You need to be more fun/exciting than the other dog coming up the street, the squirrel collecting nuts at the bottom of the tree etc. 

You need your dog to want to focus on you instead of the other dogs being walked. 

Usually if what you have done so far isn't working then you haven't built good habits with you being more fun and rewarding than the enviroment.

I see people doing the same things over and over without the results they want. But instead of changing things up (which is building more value in themselves) they keep doing the same things over hoping for a change.



This takes time.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

A1Malinois said:


> I have to respectfully disagree with this. My male was fine with any intact male dog hes met, he never batted and eye when another dog was acting aggressive towards him. After he was neutered, some dogs hes never bothered with he wants to eat now, specifically one intact male that always shows him aggression. My training methods have not changed from when he was intact to when he was neutered so I do believe neutering played a part.
> 
> ...


 
Can I respectfully point out that you have a Malinois, and the OP has a Golden and cgriffin has a Golden? Your dog's personality issues may be more about breed than neutering or not. This is a Golden Retriever forum. And the two breeds are not identical in terms of temperment, trainability, etc.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Sweet Girl said:


> Can I respectfully point out that you have a Malinois, and the OP has a Golden and cgriffin has a Golden? Your dog's personality issues may be more about breed than neutering or not. This is a Golden Retriever forum. And the two breeds are not identical in terms of temperment, trainability, etc.


A dog is a dog. If neutering can have negative effects on a Malinois, it can have the same negative effects on a Golden Retriever as well regardless of the difference is temperament and train ability.

Neutered DOGS are more at risk of hypothyroidism. It does not specify neutered Golden Retrievers are more prone to hypothyroidism then a Malinois is. Any neutered dog is more at risk of vaccine reactions, incontinence, excitable urination etc. Its a general statement.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

There is a study done through BARC that does show that their sometimes the problems can be more in certain breeds than other breeds.

Sometimes spaying/neutering can be a problem if you have a shy/fearful/unconfident dog. 

They have found in this one study that Golden Retrievers that are spayed and neutered have more of a problem with dog directed aggression.

here is the link.

http://www.cdoca.org/downloads/files/Early%20SN%20and%20Behavior.pdf 

page 8 
breed specific behaviors of spaying/neutering

dog directed aggression and fear

spayed and neutered golden retrievers have more of a problem with this than intact

page 9
doesn't single out a breed but
spayed and neutered dogs are more aggressive to people and other dogs

spayed and neutered have more touch sensitivity 
spayed and neutered have more non social fears

For most behaviors, spaying/neutering was
associated with worse behavior, contrary to
conventional wisdom.
A few behaviors (e.g., energy level, urine marking)
were reduced in spayed/neutered dogs.
The effects of spaying/neutering are often specific
to certain breeds and are not always equivalent
between sexes.

So if someone is having problem behaviors in a young dog they should be evaluated by a vet behaviorist or a certified behaviorist prior to making the decision to spay and neuter. Sometimes this may be the best thing for that individual dog and sometimes it may make things worse.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I understand there is certain health issues more seen in certain breeds. But every dog has an increased risk of everything when its neutered. 

Also, why bother consulting with a trainer or vet about it? Honestly, I dont see any vet every saying neutering may not be good. I am always told neutering eliminates testicular cancer, but they never share the actual risk of your dog getting it is less them 1%


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

"Also, why bother consulting with a trainer or vet about it? Honestly, I dont see any vet every saying neutering may not be good"

My suggestion to seek the advice of a certified behaviorist or a vet behaviorist is if someone already has a shy/fearful/unconfident dog before making the decision if they had concerns on neuter/spay. 
A1Malinois I do think you know Lincoln better than anyone else and I tend to agree with you that neutering him probably brought on some of his health and possible behavior issues. I do believe that the average vet wouldn't be able to give the best opinion in cases where there is behavior problems as they don't have the education level for it. That is why I suggest anyone that has these type of problems should seek out the specialist before actually neutering/spaying their dog.

From looking at the one study it looks like neutered/spayed dogs present more problems for the average pet owner over the course of time than most intact dogs do.

I do hope they do more of these studies over time.

Back to the original poster no matter what decision they make on traditional neuter/monthly shots/to keep intact they still have a training issue.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

K9-Design said:


> Just go have him neutered, and keep training.
> This whole neutering/age thing is making people paranoid.


I completely agree with this.


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## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

I have never heard of this "temporary neuter" but it's not something I would be interested in personally.
I understand your frustration with the training. All of my dogs have been adults when I got them and male, Ky is my 1st female.
Some of my dogs were easy to train, some were not. I had one guy that was so stubborn, at least that's what I thought in the beginning, he just would not learn and we were in class a lot. Some days it felt like I was beating my head against a wall while emptying my wallet and getting zero results. This went on and on until I thought he would never learn basic manners, which I insist on in my house. 
When I got to the point of crying over this I decided that continuing to try the same teaching method over and over was getting us nowhere so I looked for a new trainer. That's when I found my current trainer (many, many years ago). What a blessing!!
She read him and had me teach him differently than normal classes. Most of the changes we made were with the leash. For instance she would bring the leash around behind his body so the leash was actually touching the back of his legs before it reached my hand. (Picture a U shape from neck, behind legs, to my hand) Don't think that makes sense without seeing it but anyway, all of a sudden he learned...everything.
It turned out that he wasn't stubborn, he just needed different training techniques to learn from. Once we figured that out he was a fun guy to train!
Don't lose hope. I believe there are some dogs, like some people, that learn differently. One day all of your hard work will pay off although I know it doesn't feel like it to you at the moment.
Hang in there, good luck :wave:


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## rob1 (Sep 21, 2009)

I haven't heard of the drug, but I'll throw in another data point. I'm not planning on neutering Lucky, who will be 3 in Dec. For me personally, the cost/benefit isn't clear enough to warrant it. And I do think most behavioral issues are training issues- and your boy is right in the bratty stage. Just push through consistently with your training and things may well start to shake out when he hits 2 or so.

HOWEVER- I was at my first Rally competition last week and was talking to a nice woman competing 2 goldens in Novice B. The were magnificent- both scored 100 (all the placing B dogs did). And I discovered she taught one of the agility classes at the club sponsoring the trial. Man- I wish it was closer, as I would LOVE to take her class. Seriously- those dogs were just beautiful to watch.

And she told me her boy- who just turned 3- was going in for neutering this week. He has a tendency for his attention to wander while in the agility ring- 'eyeing the pretty girls while at the top of the A-frame' is how it was phrased .

So yea- I wouldn't generally consider neutering, temporary or otherwise, for most behavioral issues. But I really admired the results of this woman's training. If she'd consider it as an option... If I found myself in the same situation, I might well consider it.

That said- I'd probably wait until 2 anyway- just to see if he grows out of it. Assuming you want to keep him intact w/out a compelling reason not to.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

A1Malinois;1811880If your worried about breeding and want to shush the "zomg spay/neuter or your dog will breed!!!!!!!!!!!" people...have a vasectomy done on him [/QUOTE said:


> I didn't realize that vasectomies can be done on dogs. Why isn't that offered as an alternative to castration?


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

A1Malinois said:


> *A dog is a dog.* If neutering can have negative effects on a Malinois, it can have the same negative effects on a Golden Retriever as well regardless of the difference is temperament and train ability.


Could not disagree more with this. But I'm not getting into it with you. You have little faith in vets and veterinary science. You believe you know more. 

But a Poodle is not a Bulldog is not a Saint Bernard is not an Italian Greyhound. Each has its own temperment and its own health issues and its own level of trainability. 

Dogs have been neutered for decades and not all neutered dogs have the issues of which you speak. It is not a general statement.


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## Sokokomo (Aug 15, 2011)

Looks like there's a lot of converging opinions on this! I do think that all dogs are different and react differently to neutering, but also that similar individual traits can exist in other breeds too.
A magazine I read on dogs had an article about the downsides of neutering and even vets who had contributed to the article said that they no longer suggest neutering for all dogs and they have noticed changes even in their own dogs. 

So the question comes back to temporary vs permanent. Yes the hormone injections aren't ideal if done every month for the rest of his life, obviously this isn't a viable option. But neutering is so permanent; would no-one even consider having a month or two of 'try before you buy'? To see how the dog reacts and hope that if negatively, you know you haven't altered them permanently?

I will keep up with the training, I have very recently started clicker training him which I haven't tried before, so I am trying to change my methods. He would still rather be off doing his own thing though! I just hope that in another 6 months he is a bit more receptive to training...does that sound feasible or am I dreaming? I have also recently started going to 2 classes a week, one obedience and one agility, hopefully to channel his exuberance in other ways, be around other dogs and learn to listen to my directions a bit more! I do worry though when I am attending all these classes if one day there will be a bitch in season that will send him potty. He doesn't seem to react any differently to male or females though at the moment.

So basically the questions are, to people that have had difficult pups, do they ever alter, firstly without neutering, but as they get older? Or is the reason most people say their dogs get more mellow is because they have neutered them around 12-18months of age??


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Anyone think it is hard on an unneutered male never to be bred? Perpetuation of the species, lol, is a pretty strong drive. I think it is kinder to neuter a dog who will not be bred.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

My Golden is intact and he has no sex drive whatsoever. He is just a big innocent baby!
I guess you can't miss what you never had, lol.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

I've never neutered any of my male dogs. They only displayed interest in females if there was one in heat near them, but this only happened at trials. 
That said, I have just neutered my boys. This, however, was because the doggy day care where they go required it at age two, since I had explained that my contract required them to not be neutered early. 
As far as an injection to solve those behavioural problems, I think they won't solve what you're describing. Those are bad behaviours that can be trained away.


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

The Supralorin implant is very safe and can be useful in directing their brains in the right direction especially whilst they are 'teenagers'. Tardak used to be used but has been superceeded by the implant. Anne


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