# Well my pup is going away.



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Would suggest making sure you know how that program works with the dogs and takes care of the dogs. 

Have seen horrific things online with people tattling about dogs being abused or neglected since it's all out of sight and without the owners knowing the specifics. 

Ideally - if the behaviors are caused by your handling and behavior with the dog - the trainers need to be working with you too. With fear aggressive dogs and fear reactive dogs a lot of people prefer to completely blame the dogs and breeding rather than understand what led to the situation. With an insecure dog, you'll need to continue handling your dog correctly. 

This is a case where a behaviorist coming to your house and working with both you and the dog would be more appropriate.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

Megora said:


> Would suggest making sure you know how that program works with the dogs and takes care of the dogs.
> 
> Have seen horrific things online with people tattling about dogs being abused or neglected since it's all out of sight and without the owners knowing the specifics.
> 
> ...


 Do you think I would send my dog to some place like that. We spoke to the people that work there to find out how the program works. We received e mails and pictures of the place. The place is well reviewed. After the dog is trained and comes home they work with us. With a behaviorist coming to your house and working with us would be hard because it would be a long program of coming to the house. Our work schedules would make that hard to work out.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

I hope this program works well for you. I also hope you made the effort to go out to look at this place, anyone can make a website 

However I tend to agree with Megora. The path you have picked is like sending your kids to boarding school vs getting family therapy. The behaviors you have described sound more like the group dynamics is off and everyone needs to learn new behaviors, it's never just one family member that makes a problem. Unless you learn and practice daily any new behavior you will return to what you have always done and the problem will return. LOL try putting your trash can in a new location and see how many days it takes to get comfortable with new location without having to think about it. Patterns are something we all do without thinking. You have to change your patterns too.

JMHO but the level of effort and time you put into your dog & his training the better your results will be. Your family has to be as invested in the process as the dog. If you can't make the time to do this as a family... well you are putting all the expectations on the dog. Good luck with that.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

puddles everywhere said:


> I hope this program works well for you. I also hope you made the effort to go out to look at this place, anyone can make a website
> 
> However I tend to agree with Megora. The path you have picked is like sending your kids to boarding school vs getting family therapy. The behaviors you have described sound more like the group dynamics is off and everyone needs to learn new behaviors, it's never just one family member that makes a problem. Unless you learn and practice daily any new behavior you will return to what you have always done and the problem will return. LOL try putting your trash can in a new location and see how many days it takes to get comfortable with new location without having to think about it. Patterns are something we all do without thinking. You have to change your patterns too.
> 
> JMHO but the level of effort and time you put into your dog & his training the better your results will be. Your family has to be as invested in the process as the dog. If you can't make the time to do this as a family... well you are putting all the expectations on the dog. Good luck with that.







Do you really think I would spend over $2000 to get my dog trained if we didn't try everything else first. I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't feel comfortable with the place. Do you really think I would send my dog to some place I didn't feel comfortable with. The place also came highly regarded by my dogs vet. Thats were we got the number from.


So what you are saying is that my family needs the training. My wife should learn to walk differently because it upsets the dog to the point where he constantly is biting at her legs. We should all change our behaviors to suit him. 





I posted this here hoping to get someone else on here that had the same experiences. But instead I am told that my families behavior needs to be changed for my dog.


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

I was going to try and stay off of this post, but I think you may be misinterpreting the meaning behind peoples responses. I don't think anyone here is trying to make accusations about you as an owner.

I send my dogs away for training. It is specific - field training. They are away from me for a few months, depending on the level of training I want them to receive, how much I've been able to complete myself, and how quick they learn. It does not cost anywhere near $2000 for 3 weeks. That seems crazy to me. 

The first week they are away from me they do very little other then get acclimated to their new surroundings. I've had the same trainer for 20 years. I can show up anytime I want and check on my dog. I make sure we use the same veterinarian and my vet knows when he has my dog. (he is my vets trainer as well) I supply all food so that doesn't change. It also takes me about a week when I get them home to get them back into our routine. 

Over the years my trainer has spent much more time teaching my husband, myself, and my oldest son how to properly train and handle our dogs then he has with the dogs. I think this is where all of us here have a concern!!

If you simply send the dog into a new environment and "fix it" I don't see how it is going to apply when you bring the dog back home. If your problems entail taking the dog to the vet and having it groomed the trainer isn't going to do these things with your dog. These are situations that you need to handle and work through with your dog. You may need a trainer to see the exact issues you are having and coach YOU on how to correct the problem as it is happening.

For $2000 I would take a week of vacation (or two if I could) and hire a private trainer to come into my home and teach me how to handle the issues with my dog. You are describing basic training and behavioral problems. These are things that you need to know how to handle the minute they happen. 

I wish you the best of luck. I just think everyone here is trying to tell you that they are skeptical that this method will actually benefit you or your dog in the end. Hopefully we are wrong. 

PS - My trainer can get my dogs to do things they will never do for me. I've worked for years to learn all of his tricks but they perform better for him at his house. It's just a fact. He says that they love me but they respect him. I'm afraid your going to find out your dog may respect this trainer but it won't help you....


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

rusy95 said:


> Do you think I would send my dog to some place like that. We spoke to the people that work there to find out how the program works. We received e mails and pictures of the place. The place is well reviewed. After the dog is trained and comes home they work with us. With a behaviorist coming to your house and working with us would be hard because it would be a long program of coming to the house. Our work schedules would make that hard to work out.


What are your expectations? What are you hoping the results will be from the board and train? What will you have when he comes home?

If the training accomplishes what you hope for, you still will need to have sessions with the trainer yourself to learn what they taught the dog, and how to maintain that training and also progress forward with continued training. So yes, you and your family need to be involved in the training. Any good training program is always about teaching the owner how to train your dog.

What training have you done so far yourself with the dog?


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

rusy95 said:


> So what you are saying is that my family needs the training. My wife should learn to walk differently because it upsets the dog to the point where he constantly is biting at her legs. We should all change our behaviors to suit him



What people are saying is that you and your family _also _need to learn how to deal with a dog like this. When the dog goes to the trainer, he'll learn to behave differently with the people who are at the trainer's place, but if you and your family keep dealing with him in the same way when he gets home, he will quickly revert to his old behaviour. You can't fix a dog-family problem by only treating the dog; you have to treat the combination, because it's the combination that is the root of the problem in 95% of cases: in other words, the relationship the dog has with the family. Nobody is saying that you're sending your dog to a place you're not happy with. But it's a fact in dog training that there are no short cuts, and remote training very often isn't successful in cases like this because the family actually needs to work through the problem with the dog. And regardless, $2000 is extremely expensive, even for this type of thing.



A couple of observations: Biting and nipping like this is bratty behaviour. Your dog is doing it because he thinks he's in charge and can get away with it. It's a game to him. What you've been doing to stop it hasn't worked, and it won't work in the future either, even after training. Personally I'm not a fan of giving a dog a toy when it bites. Look at this from the dog's perspective: he bites your wife, you give him a toy. It's kind of like rewarding him for the biting. If my dog was doing this to me, I wouldn't be giving him toys. I'd have him wearing a leash in the house, which I'd use to get him under physical control when he started running around and biting, then I'd give a command (down, stay), and if necessary I'd stand on the leash to prevent him from getting up until I decided it was time. This way, you've put yourself in charge. The problem seems to be, from your description, that your dog is doing what he wants and the consequence you're giving him (a) isn't enough for him to stop and (b) isn't changing the balance of the relationship and putting you in charge. If it was, the dog would have stopped the behaviour by now.


It's not a question of changing your behaviour to suit the dog: if you did that, he'd still be in charge, and that's exactly what you don't want. However, it _is _a question of changing your behaviour so that you're in charge of the dog. 



And another thing that I'd add: When you originally got this dog, you mentioned that you'd gone out and bought a 6-week-old pup. That tells me that your pup didn't come from a reputable breeder, because no breeder worth his/her salt would send a 6-week pup home. Pups usually go home at around 8 weeks of age, and there's a very good reason for this. Those last two weeks with the litter are when the pups learn the rudiments of bite inhibition from the mother and their littermates. Pups that go home earlier are almost always much more mouthy and more prone to biting. At least part of your problem almost certainly stems from the fact that you got your pup at 6 weeks of age and probably didn't work actively on bite inhibition in those first few weeks at home. In addition, a good breeder would have asked you about the type of dog you wanted, and then matched you with a suitable puppy. This clearly didn't happen, and it sounds as if you may inadvertently have got the bratty, bossy, assertive puppy from the litter. That's fine, if it's what you wanted (I actually chose that type of puppy), but it can be a bit of a handful if you weren't expecting it or aren't equipped to deal with it.



I wish you the best, moving forward, and I really hope the training works out. It's good that your trainer is going to work with you in your home after the 3-week remote session. Please let us know how it goes.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

First of all I don't know you and the world is full of people that make decisions they regret later. $2000, you never mentioned how much this training cost and has no bearing either way. No need to get defensive, just offering my opinion.. it's not personal and no attack intended.

I can tell you for about $100 and 6 to 8 (1 hr class), one day a week classes you can have a well trained dog with a little time, effort and homework. 

When you do the training yourself, yes the training is for you more than the dog. The training is to teach you how to train your dog. This is about understanding each other, learning body language and better communication between you. Training is how you build a relationship with your dog. 

Yes relationship... and like any relationship if you want a different response from the other party YOU are the one that needs to change. The dog is responding and learning from you guys. Even with training, this is not a robot and you two need to understand each other otherwise this training will fail. If you do not practice continued training of the exercises once the dog returns, the dog will return to the way things are now.

But like I said... I hope this works for you and happy to hear you checked this place out, not everyone does.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

rusy95 said:


> So what you are saying is that my family needs the training. My wife should learn to walk differently because it upsets the dog to the point where he constantly is biting at her legs. We should all change our behaviors to suit him.
> 
> I posted this here hoping to get someone else on here that had the same experiences. But instead I am told that my families behavior needs to be changed for my dog.


I think you are misunderstanding what I (and probably others) meant when we said that the bigger focus of training should be a trainer seeing what's going on, seeing how you and your wife are handling what's going on, and literally training you vs the dog.

There might be nothing at all wrong with your dog. What might be going on is stress behavior on the part of your dog, and he is flipping out based on how you and your wife are reacting. 

My vet, I will say this much - generally takes the dogs away from people to give shots. This is because it might take several techs holding a dog down or who knows what else they need to do... and owners sometimes interfere or exasperate the situation. <= That was literally my first thought when I read what you described of the shot situation.

Based on the other mouthing you describe, I would assume this is more excitement and sassing. 

Mouthing and biting your wife again it could be excitement behaviors. And you and your wife need to know how to handle your dog to calm him down.

You sound upset about being told that you and your family need the training vs just the dog, but unless they are taking your dog away for 2 years and bringing him back when he's closer to being middle-aged, you are going to have the same excitement behaviors happening.

Where I train - they do not train your dogs for you. They train you to train your dogs. You own a young immature golden and he's a long way from settling down. So daily training needs to happen. This is beyond looking to fully train a dog in 2-3 weeks (which is nonsense).

**** Forgot to mention something that we did back when my Bertie was a 4 month old pup in basic obedience classes.

When I took these classes, Bertie was already competition level trained (and had been in 2 competition level obedience matches and doing all the exercises by then). I was taking these classes because they were a good source of distraction training while waiting for a spot in an competition obedience level training class. 

My dog was heeling, auto sitting (when I stopped), holding stays, doing formal fronts, stand stays, etc.... in this class right from the start.

The other dogs were somewhat all over the place - generally pulling away from their owners while heeling, not sitting on command, not holding position (stays), and not understanding recalls. 

The class was 6 weeks and by the 4th week the instructor did a game where she had all of us switch dogs. 

Everyone wanted my dog - totally cracked me up.

What followed was within a couple adjustments the dog I got during the switch was prancing in heel position and after 1-2 reminder-training were sitting on command and then sitting when I stopped moving. Actually, I found the dog very responsive and easy to handle with clear communication - this despite him dragging his owner around. 

My dog was dragging their owner around and completely ignoring her. 

^^^ This is why I do not really believe that short term "sending dogs away for obedience training" works if there is no pressure on the owners to learn how to handle their dogs. 

Me, I learned how to handle dogs because I've done a lot of privates and classes with people teaching me. 

And that's the missing link for a lot of people who have problems with their dogs. Sometimes they train at places where the classes are overcrowded and the trainers are not good at communicating with and teaching people. Some people especially young kids who decide to be trainers at Petco or whatever, they think they are getting a dream job where they can just work with dogs. And that's wrong - 99% of dog training (as a career) is the trainers teaching people. And it doesn't happen all at once. 

Taking classes with their dogs for 2 years - generally makes a lot of people really good dog trainers. That's why I think any new puppy person needs to commit to finding a place to train their dogs and doing it.


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## usually lurking (Apr 21, 2017)

Megora said:


> Actually, I found the dog very responsive and easy to handle with clear communication - this despite him dragging his owner around.
> 
> My dog was dragging their owner around and completely ignoring her.





My first thought is that this is likely the crux of the problem. Frequently, humans think they are giving clear direction to their dog, but they are not. I know how to train a dog with clear signals. My oldest son did/does not. He was all over the place with his body and got confused about what to do with treats, his hands, the leash, and the dog. His verbal commands were all over the board when he started, too. I sent him and our puppy to obedience class so that my *son* could learn how to give clear directions and train the dog. Dogs are much more easily trained than humans. Is my son perfect at this? No, but he's better because he went to three or four classes doing different things and worked on it with our dog. Honestly, it was super frustrating to watch because I wanted to just jump in and get it done, but I did not. It would have been absolutely useless to my son because he never would have learned to direct the dog on his own. You have to learn how to effectively communicate with your dog in way that ensures the dog understands exactly what you want, knows that you (and everyone else in your household) are always consistent with commands and expectations. If you do not have that, your dog will run amok and take advantage of whomever he can. They are like little kids, in that way.


Also, I'll add that the reason everyone here gets concerned about posts that reference sending dogs away for training, is that there have been incidents whereby training companies offer to take your dog and train it quickly, but use questionable techniques. I believe there were, at one time, reports of actual abuse by one of these companies. So, posters were merely offering fair warning and alternative suggestions. No one meant to insult your attempts to train your dog, thus far.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

usually lurking said:


> My first thought is that this is likely the crux of the problem. Frequently, humans think they are giving clear direction to their dog, but they are not. I know how to train a dog with clear signals. My oldest son did/does not. He was all over the place with his body and got confused about what to do with treats, his hands, the leash, and the dog. His verbal commands were all over the board when he started, too. I sent him and our puppy to obedience class so that my *son* could learn how to give clear directions and train the dog. Dogs are much more easily trained than humans. Is my son perfect at this? No, but he's better because he went to three or four classes doing different things and worked on it with our dog. Honestly, it was super frustrating to watch because I wanted to just jump in and get it done, but I did not. It would have been absolutely useless to my son because he never would have learned to direct the dog on his own. You have to learn how to effectively communicate with your dog in way that ensures the dog understands exactly what you want, knows that you (and everyone else in your household) are always consistent with commands and expectations. If you do not have that, your dog will run amok and take advantage of whomever he can. They are like little kids, in that way.
> 
> 
> Also, I'll add that the reason everyone here gets concerned about posts that reference sending dogs away for training, is that there have been incidents whereby training companies offer to take your dog and train it quickly, but use questionable techniques. I believe there were, at one time, reports of actual abuse by one of these companies. So, posters were merely offering fair warning and alternative suggestions. No one meant to insult your attempts to train your dog, thus far.





Thats the place I am sending my dog, to the one that abuses them. Did you read what I wrote about the place I am sending him to I got the number from my vet, it is a licensed and accredited business. It has great reviews.


We also realize that we are also part of the problem.




And for the poster that said you can get home training for 5 or 6 lessons for $100 this is 2019 not 1975. I live in NY for a trainer to that it's an easy $1000.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

mylissyk said:


> What are your expectations? What are you hoping the results will be from the board and train? What will you have when he comes home?
> 
> If the training accomplishes what you hope for, you still will need to have sessions with the trainer yourself to learn what they taught the dog, and how to maintain that training and also progress forward with continued training. So yes, you and your family need to be involved in the training. Any good training program is always about teaching the owner how to train your dog.
> 
> What training have you done so far yourself with the dog?





I expect my dog not to bite my hand and bite my wifes feet. Thats what I expect to get out of it, I expect hium to be better behaved than he is now. You people must think I am an idiot that I don't realize what is involved. My dog went to a puppy training and then the next step. He has always had the biting problem and the other day it came to a head. I obviously can't get it done so someone else will and show me how to maintain it.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Not sure why you choose to be so snarky at people when they are offering their experience and knowledge, after all you asked. I hope you learn to listen to your dog as well as this trainer when he TRIES to work with you on the dogs return. 

I never said anything about in home trainers... what I said is for about $100 (maybe more in NY but far less than $2000) you can attend a group class, 1 hr classes for about 6 to 8 weeks and get the same results. I also said you need to participate in the training which seems to be the part you aren't on board with despite all of the post explaining how important this part is. If you think you are going to get a pre-programed dog back without your family changing how you communicate with this dog you might as well save your money and rehome the dog.

So good luck and hope you get the results you are looking for.


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

Fingers crossed this option helps! Keep us updated.

It worked wonders for my rescue Golden.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

puddles everywhere said:


> Not sure why you choose to be so snarky at people when they are offering their experience and knowledge, after all you asked. I hope you learn to listen to your dog as well as this trainer when he TRIES to work with you on the dogs return.
> 
> I never said anything about in home trainers... what I said is for about $100 (maybe more in NY but far less than $2000) you can attend a group class, 1 hr classes for about 6 to 8 weeks and get the same results. I also said you need to participate in the training which seems to be the part you aren't on board with despite all of the post explaining how important this part is. If you think you are going to get a pre-programed dog back without your family changing how you communicate with this dog you might as well save your money and rehome the dog.
> 
> So good luck and hope you get the results you are looking for.





We did that. $600. I am not being snarky. But will not be talked down to. Like I didn't go thru the hard decision we made. We had a golden before this and a lab before that. You talk to me like I don't realize what it takes to have a behaved dog. You talk like I never read anything on the subject. When it gets to the point that it's more than I can handle I will get a professional to do it and show me how it's done.

I posted this to maybe get someone that has gone thru this and sent a dog away for training. And get their experience. I didn't post here for people to tell me what the problem is or what I should do That is not the experience or knowledge you talk about. I know what the problem is and we have discussed this with a vet and the people that own the business.


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## usually lurking (Apr 21, 2017)

rusy95 said:


> Thats the place I am sending my dog, to the one that abuses them. Did you read what I wrote about the place I am sending him to I got the number from my vet, it is a licensed and accredited business. It has great reviews.


I did read that, yes. I am fairly certain that the company I referenced was also licensed and accredited, and it certainly had great reviews, or people wouldn't have used it. However, it was also franchised (I think), which was likely the problem, as you then have individuals using a particular company name, but you likely lose some measure of control - not unlike how you can go into one McDonalds (or any other franchised restaurant) and it's clean and the employees are polite, and then go in another and, to one degree or another, find the opposite. Obviously, no one would WILLINGLY and KNOWINGLY send their dog somewhere that would be abusive. The skepticism, here, is that it takes more than three weeks to properly train a dog. It takes months, and then there's the lifetime commitment to maintaining that consistency. 

Perhaps if you'd share the methodology by which they stated they plan to accomplish this, people could assist and support you better, especially if (a) that's why you posted originally and (b) you'd actually like suggestions/support on how to most effectively continue those methodologies at home, so that you don't spend $2000 for training, only to have the dog fall into prior tendencies when he returns home.


Lastly, I'll just add that, at least based on this thread, I have no idea what your experience level is. I have no idea what you have read, what training classes you have attended, or how you trained your other dogs, or even with which types of dog personalities you have experience training. Perhaps, if you had laid out all those details in your initial post or, alternatively, posted at the end of the other threads you mentioned (I haven't read them), rather than making the assumption that everyone visiting *this* thread has knowledge of all your prior ones, people would have had fewer questions that you seem to find insulting.


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## usually lurking (Apr 21, 2017)

Since I have not read your prior threads, what *have* you tried and what has been suggested to you, in regards to the biting issue, if you don't mind me asking?


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

I'm going to approach this from a more clinical aspect so as not to offend. I have had great success with boarding/training (usually 3 months not 3 weeks)... with people that are willing to understand 3 months will not give you a solid trained dog and the 6 visit follow-up will be to help the owner adapt to a new way of communication with their dog so that the training continues.

Because the owners did not participate in the training process I found that most people went back to their usual patterns after a few months and required a sort of refresher course as people are creatures of habit. There were many times the dog was not suited for the environment... like buying a dog bred for field or performance (high energy) and expecting it to be a laid back house dog happy with a couple of walks a day. In these cases I helped them find a suitable home as well as helped them pick another dog more suited to their lifestyle. After 50+ yrs of teaching dogs manners it was quite successful in most cases but without meeting the dog or the owners and seeing the interaction between them I can only advise from the information given. Best of luck with this place and hope it helps.


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## GoldenMom999 (Apr 14, 2017)

rusy95 said:


> We did that. $600. I am not being snarky. But will not be talked down to. Like I didn't go thru the hard decision we made. We had a golden before this and a lab before that. You talk to me like I don't realize what it takes to have a behaved dog. You talk like I never read anything on the subject. When it gets to the point that it's more than I can handle I will get a professional to do it and show me how it's done.
> 
> I posted this to maybe get someone that has gone thru this and sent a dog away for training. And get their experience. I didn't post here for people to tell me what the problem is or what I should do That is not the experience or knowledge you talk about. I know what the problem is and we have discussed this with a vet and the people that own the business.


I haven't seen or heard of an tremendously experiences. The dog may be well-behaved for a bit when it comes home, but old behaviors return quickly, primarily because the level of attention, mental stimulation and exercise at the home is not the same as at the training place. You said the training of your family in house would be difficult because of your work schedules. How much time does your dog spend alone? How much exercise does he get every day? Remember, first and foremost golden's are hunting dogs.


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## Walt Watson (Mar 20, 2019)

Dogs are the best friends of human beings. In fact, you can learn some basic dog commands, starting with simple daily training. Be patient and you will eventually get a better dog friend. At the same time, you can save your expenses.


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

rusy95 said:


> I posted this to maybe get someone that has gone thru this and sent a dog away for training. And get their experience. .


As I mentioned in my post, I have gone this route and am happy to share my experience via PM. It was for a very specific Golden, for a very specific reason, and I chose a very specific trainer based on very specific criteria after a very thorough vetting process. I don't know that your situation is or will be comparable but happy to discuss.


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## Walt Watson (Mar 20, 2019)

All dog training needs to start with the most basic dog commands. I think the training of these dog commands I listed is a process that must be experienced.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

I started this thread to see if anyone had the same experience as I am having and how sending your dog away helped. I did not ask for opinions if I was doing the right thing and I did not come here to be interrogated on the treatment of my dog. If you took the time to read thru this and my others threads on the subject it might help. I am not 9 years old so don't talk to me like that. I have had other dogs that were trained and well behaved. Luke is a very energetic golden that was trained when he was younger. He knows how to sit, stay, walk on a leash, walk without a leash, come when called and all the other little tricks. He has always had a habit of nipping at you when you tried to do certain things. We tried our best to get him to stop but nothing worked and now he feels he can do it anytime he wants to. He has bite me and my wife. I am afraid to take him to get groomed because I don't want to attendant to get bite. The place I am taking him to is well accredited and gets great reviews as I have stated before. I am not 9 years old and do realize that it takes a whole family to raise him.


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## Walt Watson (Mar 20, 2019)

*Very sorry*



rusy95 said:


> I started this thread to see if anyone had the same experience as I am having and how sending your dog away helped. I did not ask for opinions if I was doing the right thing and I did not come here to be interrogated on the treatment of my dog. If you took the time to read thru this and my others threads on the subject it might help. I am not 9 years old so don't talk to me like that. I have had other dogs that were trained and well behaved. Luke is a very energetic golden that was trained when he was younger. He knows how to sit, stay, walk on a leash, walk without a leash, come when called and all the other little tricks. He has always had a habit of nipping at you when you tried to do certain things. We tried our best to get him to stop but nothing worked and now he feels he can do it anytime he wants to. He has bite me and my wife. I am afraid to take him to get groomed because I don't want to attendant to get bite. The place I am taking him to is well accredited and gets great reviews as I have stated before. I am not 9 years old and do realize that it takes a whole family to raise him.



Sorry to bring you unhappiness, I sincerely apologize to you.


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## drew510 (Sep 12, 2017)

I can certainly see rusy95's point of view. I can see how he would feel folks jumped all over him. It's like the dirty looks or snarky comments I get from people when they see I have a purebred dog and not a rescue.

What might have helped is either linking your previous threads in the first post here OR just updating a previous thread. Most of the time, when I come to this forum, I just click on the "active topics" thread, so when I read this one, I had no previous knowledge of your efforts. Had you updated a previous thread, I would have seen that info. 

I hope that this works for you. There are many ways to train a dog, but I do agree with some of the posters that the humans need just as much training. Right now, I am struggling a little bit with my 10 month old pup and her relationship with my kids. She still sees them as siblings and treats them as such. I am working with my kids to show Piper that they are pack leaders, but then I'll catch them reinforcing bad behaviors. My kids KNOW what is right and they actively participated in both of Piper's obedience classes, they just choose to be kids sometimes. So, in my case, it's much more on the humans than the dog.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

rusy95 said:


> Thats the place I am sending my dog, to the one that abuses them. Did you read what I wrote about the place I am sending him to I got the number from my vet, it is a licensed and accredited business. It has great reviews.
> 
> 
> We also realize that we are also part of the problem.
> ...


I'm sorry you're feeling defensive about a choice you made. A couple of things- there is a 'trainer' in TN and one in IL or OH I can't recall which- both of these men were recently found to have sold dogs they had after telling owners the dogs died...and both of these men were highly recommended by vets and folks who competed. That's all.Vets are not in the business of training or even knowing if the trainers are good- they just know they exist and offer a name. I doubt seriously your vet has sent a dog to this trainer...who may be fine or may not. 
Puddles was not referring to in-home training 6-8 lessons for $100- she was referring to group classes. That's the going rate pretty much everywhere. 
It'll get you some time off to send dog away- but return doesn't promise dog will be any different. Your family would be best served by taking group classes. This poor puppy was taken from his litter way too early, and never learned litter lessons. In haste to get a puppy asap what you got was a puppy you needed to do remedial work with.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

rusy95 said:


> I expect my dog not to bite my hand and bite my wifes feet. Thats what I expect to get out of it, I expect hium to be better behaved than he is now. You people must think I am an idiot that I don't realize what is involved. My dog went to a puppy training and then the next step. He has always had the biting problem and the other day it came to a head. I obviously can't get it done so someone else will and show me how to maintain it.


No one here thinks you are an idiot. Everyone here thinks you bought a puppy with little info and that is clear by the fact he came to you at 6 weeks of age. When people make foolish choices in their purchase, it is reasonable to think they have the idea you can throw $$ at a problem and get a quick fix.The reality is you all have a lot of work to do. I hope this trainer is a good one and he gives you a result you can build on.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Prism Goldens said:


> I'm sorry you're feeling defensive about a choice you made. A couple of things- there is a 'trainer' in TN and one in IL or OH I can't recall which- both of these men were recently found to have sold dogs they had after telling owners the dogs died...and both of these men were highly recommended by vets and folks who competed. That's all.Vets are not in the business of training or even knowing if the trainers are good- they just know they exist and offer a name. I doubt seriously your vet has sent a dog to this trainer...who may be fine or may not.
> Puddles was not referring to in-home training 6-8 lessons for $100- she was referring to group classes. That's the going rate pretty much everywhere.
> It'll get you some time off to send dog away- but return doesn't promise dog will be any different. Your family would be best served by taking group classes. This poor puppy was taken from his litter way too early, and never learned litter lessons. In haste to get a puppy asap what you got was a puppy you needed to do remedial work with.


I have to agree that everyone is just concerned for your pup’s safety. I know there was a trainer in Ohio that was accused of some things. Not sure if it’s the same one since this guy I heard about 6-7 years ago. I think he was starving them to death. He had some wonderful reviews. And there’s good ones that have a tragic accident. You have to be extremely diligent about who you trust with your dog.


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## Val King (Jun 23, 2016)

Frankly, I think rusy needs to get off this thread...They are so defensive and unappreciative of the great advice they are getting from very experienced breeders/owners and my guess is they are taking their guilt out on GRCA...if you are miserable with the advice you are asking for, go away! Things will go okay or they will go bad..you are already justifying your decision..it's clear you are not comfortable with it....hope it turns out ok ...if not, don't blame your puppy....he doesn't know!


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

Prism Goldens said:


> No one here thinks you are an idiot. Everyone here thinks you bought a puppy with little info and that is clear by the fact he came to you at 6 weeks of age. When people make foolish choices in their purchase, it is reasonable to think they have the idea you can throw $$ at a problem and get a quick fix.The reality is you all have a lot of work to do. I hope this trainer is a good one and he gives you a result you can build on.



But right now you are talking to me like I am an idiot. We got our dog at 6 weeks because that is the age you usually get a puppy, and we had a golden for 12 years before this one so the choice wasn't foolish it went on past experience. We are not throwing money at the problem. The dog bites. I can't help him so you get a professional. You don't think I have better thing to do with $2000.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

Val King said:


> Frankly, I think rusy needs to get off this thread...They are so defensive and unappreciative of the great advice they are getting from very experienced breeders/owners and my guess is they are taking their guilt out on GRCA...if you are miserable with the advice you are asking for, go away! Things will go okay or they will go bad..you are already justifying your decision..it's clear you are not comfortable with it....hope it turns out ok ...if not, don't blame your puppy....he doesn't know!



Another fine answer. People should really think before they write.


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## rusy95 (Nov 8, 2017)

Prism Goldens said:


> I'm sorry you're feeling defensive about a choice you made. A couple of things- there is a 'trainer' in TN and one in IL or OH I can't recall which- both of these men were recently found to have sold dogs they had after telling owners the dogs died...and both of these men were highly recommended by vets and folks who competed. That's all.Vets are not in the business of training or even knowing if the trainers are good- they just know they exist and offer a name. I doubt seriously your vet has sent a dog to this trainer...who may be fine or may not.
> Puddles was not referring to in-home training 6-8 lessons for $100- she was referring to group classes. That's the going rate pretty much everywhere.
> It'll get you some time off to send dog away- but return doesn't promise dog will be any different. Your family would be best served by taking group classes. This poor puppy was taken from his litter way too early, and never learned litter lessons. In haste to get a puppy asap what you got was a puppy you needed to do remedial work with.





So they said the dogs died and sold them. So didn't the owners want the dogs bodies back. I would. Groups sessions are a little more than $100. I have checked with some trainers. Vet may not be in business to find trainers, but they have a reputation to keep up and if they give bad advice they lose customers.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

rusy95 said:


> But right now you are talking to me like I am an idiot. We got our dog at 6 weeks because that is the age you usually get a puppy, and we had a golden for 12 years before this one so the choice wasn't foolish it went on past experience. We are not throwing money at the problem. The dog bites. I can't help him so you get a professional. You don't think I have better thing to do with $2000.



I've stayed out of this and will continue to do so but just wanted to point something out. You mention you normally get a puppy at 6 weeks of age? that is incorrect as in a lot of states it is illegal to send puppies home at less than 8 weeks of age. The pups need those extra couple of weeks for socializing with their litter mattes and that is when they learn bite inhibition and the mom starts correcting the pups and teaching right from wrong. It's actually a fairly important 2 weeks that most pet puppy buyers are unaware of and can lead to some behavior issues and make training take a bit more time and can frustrate puppy owners not knowing why they have a "more stubborn puppy" when it comes to training.


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## LynnC (Nov 14, 2015)

Just a reminder for all members to stay on topic and offer the OP helpful advice and suggestions.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

No one talked to him like he is an idiot. HE is the one who turned the conversation from a helpful 'this is happening because..' place, so he could intuit why some of this is happening to his family and his puppy which is always a helpful piece. As well, he overestimates the veterinarian's basis for judging trainers. Many of us use trainers. Regularly, and (as someone said) for a specific venue. I use trainers for field past the puppy place, I can't go to hunt tests and I have no bird boys here to help me so I pay someone for that but choosing who to hire is never on the basis of a vet's recommendation. I would wager that that is the case w any of us who use trainers. Being IN that world, we also know of the awful things that happen in the hands of a trainer sometimes, and to answer his question on the dogs who were sold, apparently that trainer told the owners he'd buried them. I have only marginally kept up on that one. That said, I hope his puppy goes to a good trainer, who can teach his family how to work w puppy and nothing bad happens. I feel like this forum is 99% a supportive place that a person CAN learn lots from but not if they come here w a chip on the shoulder and not a learning mind. Whatever. I will be done w this thread and spend my time and energy on someone who wants to learn.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

LynnC I appreciate wanting civil post but it appears the only post that hasn't been supportive or informative is from rusy95. Everyone has politely provided some very good information from many perspectives... pet people, owners that are also working on biting problems, breeders trying to explain some reasons for the problem, someone that has done this training and offering to discuss, and trainers that have done this board / train and why it does or doesn't work.

The point is rusy95 has been angry, defensive and rude as all he wanted was someone to agree with his decision despite of possible failure or knowledge of bad trainer dangers. Basically he has no desire to learn anything. Because he has had dogs in the past he is an expert and doesn't need any advice... like all dogs are the same?

I believe every single member that responded, posted that they hoped the training helped. Not sure you can get more civil than this or on topic. Just what rule have we broken now?


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

rusy95 said:


> But right now you are talking to me like I am an idiot. We got our dog at 6 weeks because that is the age you usually get a puppy, and we had a golden for 12 years before this one so the choice wasn't foolish it went on past experience. We are not throwing money at the problem. The dog bites. I can't help him so you get a professional. You don't think I have better thing to do with $2000.



Nobody thinks you are an idiot, but we are trying to explain that:


(a) Six weeks of age is NOT the usual age to get a puppy. The usual age to get a puppy is EIGHT weeks of age. In some states, it is ILLEGAL to sell a puppy at six weeks of age. No REPUTABLE breeder would EVER sell a puppy at six weeks of age. There are several good reasons for this, one of them being that, during the period from six to eight weeks of age, the puppy learns about inappropriate biting from its mother and littermates. Puppies that are taken from the litter before eight weeks of age haven't learned that biting can be inappropriate and do not understand how to control it. So they have to be taught by their human families before they develop the type of problem you are now facing.


(b) Once you understand this, it is a whole lot easier to deal with the problem without spending $2,000.


Best of luck, hope things work out for you, and especially for your dog.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

rusy95 said:


> I started this thread to see if anyone had the same experience as I am having and how sending your dog away helped. I did not ask for opinions if I was doing the right thing and I did not come here to be interrogated on the treatment of my dog. If you took the time to read thru this and my others threads on the subject it might help. I am not 9 years old so don't talk to me like that. I have had other dogs that were trained and well behaved. Luke is a very energetic golden that was trained when he was younger. He knows how to sit, stay, walk on a leash, walk without a leash, come when called and all the other little tricks. He has always had a habit of nipping at you when you tried to do certain things. We tried our best to get him to stop but nothing worked and now he feels he can do it anytime he wants to. He has bite me and my wife. I am afraid to take him to get groomed because I don't want to attendant to get bite. The place I am taking him to is well accredited and gets great reviews as I have stated before. I am not 9 years old and do realize that it takes a whole family to raise him.


Nowhere in your original post on did you ask "if anyone had the same experience as I am having and how sending your dog away helped."

The replies are based on what you did post. Every single post was made in the hopes of helping you. Every single person that responded thought you asked for that help. This board is full of people who are extremely experienced dog trainers, dog breeders, and even just very experienced pet owners who want to help. Please take the things posted as such, and see if the suggestions made can be applied to your problem. 

I do agree with you that you need to get a good trainer involved, and I sincerely hope the one you go to is able to address the problems and help resolve them. In all sincerity, I wish you and your dog complete success.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Closing thread


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