# Please help with this pedigree!



## mdoats (Jun 7, 2007)

*Missing link?*

I don't see a link.


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## julie62675 (Aug 12, 2007)

because I forgot to ad it.. :doh:

Pedigree: Sir Budrick of Shawangunk


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## GoldRocksMom (Feb 9, 2007)

Preliminary clearances (hips & elbows) can be done as early as 4 months up to 24 months of age.
your boy looks like he is going to be four in November
he is old enough at age two (24 months) for permanent clearance (assignment of OFA #) Cardiac also (One year) for permanent clearance, CERF can be done 6 weeks and older(done annually), thyroid (permanent One year, nice to do a few years later also)) as well as others.
looked up his parents and a couple of grandparents on OFA website, none listed. Do you have any info on them from his breeder?
What is your females pedigree ?
Kimberly


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## GoldRocksMom (Feb 9, 2007)

Hi Julie,
did some searching and the only health clearances I can find in your male's pedigree anywhere close to him is his grand sire on his sire's side .

Grand Sire (Mary's Prozac) has hips good at 36 months. 
grand sire has two offspring listed both from different litters with hip fair & elbow on one(Mystic), 
and hip good with elbow, cerf,& cardiac on the other(Caelyn's Irish Piper).

On his dam's side, one great great great great grand dam has hips good at 24 months of age(Topaz Gilda of Fourwinds).

As many will tell you on here health and temperament are #1 and #1 in
importance in breeding. 
Without any history you simply do not know.

If your male and female had all their health clearances you would still run the risk of the unknown of so many. 
These genes can cause your puppies to be dysplastic, cause hip and or elbow dysplasia, congenital cardiac diseasae and others.

Are there any with health clearances in your females pedigree?

Since this was not a planned breeding you may want to highly consider
neutering/spaying. WHY? If even just a few ancestors are without the benefit of clearances you do not know what they carry. 
They may not have passed or were never tested, to include on OFA database Abnormal results the breeder/owner must agree to this on the OFA form.
For breeding you also want to see a history of offspring produced.
no siblings for your dog, his parents, grandparents or great grand parents.

Just a suggestion, you may want to CERF these puppies ($25-$35 dollars each) to be sure eyes are clear, preliminary cardiac (8 weeks) of age
again $30-$35 a puppy to be sure there is no murmurs detected.
hips and elbows besides good nutrition, vitamins, care and guidance
as to limits of excercise while growing bones is the best you can do at this point.
I would get the health clearances done on your male and your female.

This is all my opinion, there are others on here, an they are your puppies.

This is what we had done with the rescue puppies back in December.
We were without the sire to puppies as he had lost his life in a fire
and only had hip clearance by previous owner to his last breeding owner.

I hope I have helped you.
Kimberly


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## Brinkleysmom (Dec 17, 2005)

Great post Kimberly. I am sure there will be people who will disagree as always but Kimberly makes a lot of sense. I do not breed but there are quite a few that do on here. I am sure you will get many opinions but what Gold Rocks Mom is saying makes all the sense to me. Julie dont knock yourself out. Hopefully the pups will go to great homes and have a wonderful life and you have learned from this experience. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Where is the mom's ped? It may actually be better... and we know this was unplanned, so we're not going to judge you- or I'm sure not! (if she's super young or whatnot). It happens. You live and learn. Your puppies are darling and healthy and that's what matters!

Dad is backyard bred, like my beautiful Keira girl. I can't tell what's behind him on most lines, as the ped only goes back a few generations except for one small part. If you're so inclined, you can pay and get a little further back by getting a ped on a grandparent or something from AKC ($10 for a five gen online research pedigree last time I bought one).


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## julie62675 (Aug 12, 2007)

My female's pedigree is very basic.. doesnt go back but the 3 generations on k-9 data.. There are no clearances there either I am assuming. 

Pedigree: Bella Marie Hyland

As for the others post.. I honestly believed ..mainly because my vet told me that the clearances need to be done at 2yrs.. my Bella is just shy of 2 when she became pregnant. Like I stated earlier, unfortunately this was not planned, and I'm sure I would have learned alot more in the next year or two when I planned on making my decision and learning about breeding..lol...I was doubtful that I would breed again.. now I am positive. I certainly do NOT want to create goldens that have health issues. I will look into the clearances for the puppies...certainly well worth the money to have some kind of peace of mind, although little. I certainly know that the temperment of the parents is superb...so that I am not concerned with as much.. but the health issues, well like was said, there are no quarantees. I will hope for the best, which is all I can do at this point.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

That is all you can do and you are doing more than most. If you have a dream of breeding, consider getting your female's clearances done and breeding her to another male- a show or working dog (depending what you like/want to produce)- with all his clearances and some titles. Try your hand at getting a few basic titles on your girl. Everyone starts somewhere... 

It is impossible to know what is behind your girl as far as show or working dogs as it doesn't go back far enough. Both are beautiful. Enjoy those babies... I wish I could come snuggle them, and take one home!


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## GottaBeGoldens (Aug 11, 2007)

Don't beat yourself up. Accidents happen and now you are responsible for those 8 puppies. Believe me, I am sure a few people on this list have had the same thing happen to them, have bred goldens without clearances, before the age of two and so on........

Have clearances done on your male and female as well as the pups. This will at least give you some answers. Then spay/neuter both of them so this doesn't happen again.

If it were me, since it was an accidental breeding - I would place those pups in loving homes for free. Yes - free. No clearances, no guarantees means I couldn't live with myself IF these pups develop issues down the road...JMHO. I know some breeders charge big $$$ for pups that are from underage goldens with no clearances.......I don't know how they sleep at night.

You can always start over again with a golden that has a pedigree filled with CH's, clearances 5 generations behind them ( or more!) if you are truly interested in breeding again some day. 

Good luck with the pups!


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## Swanolck (Jan 17, 2007)

Our dogs are related!!! My puppy's grandma is Caelyn's Irish Piper. I met her when I picked up my puppy. She is lovely. Piper's mom is Mary's Prozac.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Swanolck said:


> Our dogs are related!!! My puppy's grandma is Caelyn's Irish Piper. I met her when I picked up my puppy. She is lovely. Piper's mom is Mary's Prozac.


Wow, maybe you could contact them and ask about health/age, etc  cool!


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## Swanolck (Jan 17, 2007)

Sure what would you like to know. Piper is 5 and has her clearances. She just had a litter of pups in April, I think my breeder mentioned that it would be her last. I would be happy to give out the name of my breeder if you want to contact her. She is super nice. I'm sure she could probably help you out.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I mean the original poster, not me- but that is really cool to know that your dog passed all her clearances and you have info about HER parents too!  This is really a SMALL world!


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Wow! Its great that someone on here has a dog related to your! Now maybe you can get some more info. 

As others have said, don't beat yourself up over it. What you may want to consider since you don't have the clearances, is selling the puppies on a limited registration so they cannot be bred. You can also have the buyer sign an agreement that the pups will be spayed/neutered by a certain age. So you would know that it actually happened they would have to have their vet send you a signed bill that the spay/neuter took place.

Just a thought ---- good luck! beautiful dogs!

Jazzys Mom


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## Swanolck (Jan 17, 2007)

Piper is my breeders dog. She is my puppy's grandmother. If the OP wants her info, pm me, she may be able to help her out.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm sure this info will be comforting to know...What a great find!!!


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## julie62675 (Aug 12, 2007)

Wow so Buddy must be 2nd cousins with your pup.. how cool is that!!!


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