# Drifting to the left, need suggestions.



## Solas Goldens (Nov 10, 2007)

I have noticed lately that when I start moving forward with Finn he is always drifting to the left.Since we are training in conformation as well as really basic obedience and rally, I would like suggestions from others on how others would correct this so it doesn't become a habit.Thanks


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Solas Goldens said:


> I have noticed lately that when I start moving forward with Finn he is always drifting to the left.Since we are training in conformation as well as really basic obedience and rally, I would like suggestions from others on how others would correct this so it doesn't become a habit.Thanks


Work him on your right side.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I would drift to the right, while making heel position a very rewarding place to be. When he workes to be in heel postion, cookies, praise and/or play should rain from heaven 

Also, please video tape yourself to make sure you are walking in a straight line when not deliberately drifting. Often a dog will drift to the left if you keep drifting into his 'lane'.


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## Solas Goldens (Nov 10, 2007)

you mean actually place him on the right to move forward?Then switch back?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

My guy does that on the outer circle during figure 8's... and it's something I'm trying to correct. 

But with straight heeling, you could put the treat in your left hand and hold it to your left hip bone. This keeps his head and shoulders at your side where he needs to be. Heel a few steps until he's perfect, halt/sit, reward, release - and repeat. 

When not practicing heeling, you can also put the treat in your left hand and reach it out in front of your dog's nose while you walk at a brisk pace until a point where he's "driving" forward for a few steps and that's when you release him (throw the treat and let him chase it down). <- This corrects lagging and gets your dog driving forward. <- I corrected this, because in general when you put the treat in front of the dog's nose, you are focusing on getting him to move out and forward, and not so much on keeping his shoulders in line with your leg. 



> Also, please video tape yourself to make sure you are walking in a straight line when not deliberately drifting. Often a dog will drift to the left if you keep drifting into his 'lane'.


Absolutely agree with this one too. Make sure you aren't stepping into your dog, because that teaches them to move out away from you.


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## Solas Goldens (Nov 10, 2007)

Good suggestions.... I will be going out with him in a bit, and let you all know how it goes.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Solas Goldens said:


> you mean actually place him on the right to move forward?Then switch back?


 
Yes. Work him on both sides. We all tend to ONLY work dogs on our left, moving counter clockwise. It make them "left handed", so to speak. I teach my dogs to work on a long line (as lunging a horse) moving BOTH counter clockwise and clockwise, so they are more flexible physically, as well as know how to move straight any way I ask them to. They don't anticipate, and work as I need them to when I need them to. They are happier, and less bored, too.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Megora said:


> My guy does that on the outer circle during figure 8's... and it's something I'm trying to correct.
> 
> But with straight heeling, you could put the treat in your left hand and hold it to your left hip bone. This keeps his head and shoulders at your side where he needs to be. Heel a few steps until he's perfect, halt/sit, reward, release - and repeat.
> 
> ...


 
Because you are also working in conformation, I'd be cautious about working him with a treat in your hand. In the breed ring, you do not want him looking up and over at you - it will completely throw off his movement - especially on the down and back.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

just an "I agree" post. Often a dog that drifts left has a handler that has unknowingly done some left drifting of their own. I would do the drifting to the right to counteract that for a little bit. Then make sure you are always walking straight lines and not drifting. Either find some lines you can walk on, or mark something ahead of you as you walk towards it.

I have that problem too....Flip has a tendency to go just a little bit wide and I find that I will go left a little without realizing it to compensate the distance between us. I have to continually remind myself to make sure I am going straight.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Pointgold said:


> Because you are also working in conformation, I'd be cautious about working him with a treat in your hand. In the breed ring, you do not want him looking up and over at you - it will completely throw off his movement - especially on the down and back.


*nods* But having the dog look up at you while heeling is important for obedience work. Same thing with driving forward (tossing the treat forward) but collected in the heel position (treat at hip bone). 

Do you use seperate words for when you are doing obedience training and conformation training? <- I'm asking, because with the conformation work you do not want the dog heeling at all, right?


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## Solas Goldens (Nov 10, 2007)

Do you use seperate words for when you are doing obedience training and conformation training? <- I'm asking, because with the conformation work you do not want the dog heeling at all, right? 

I do use different language, and he seems to understand what we are doing based on whether or not he has a slip lead or a collar on. Like I use "Lets Go" instead of "Heel" to move forward.You don't do heeling in Conformation, and I have taught him "Stand" as a command". There is no sitting on conformation. LOL!


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## Solas Goldens (Nov 10, 2007)

I will say that some of his drifting is probably due to me being directionally challenged.LOL. Remember guys, I am totally new to this, and I am learning just as much as my pup!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Megora said:


> *nods* But having the dog look up at you while heeling is important for obedience work. Same thing with driving forward (tossing the treat forward) but collected in the heel position (treat at hip bone).
> 
> Do you use seperate words for when you are doing obedience training and conformation training? <- I'm asking, because with the conformation work you do not want the dog heeling at all, right?


I simply use different leads. (Collars are the same, but my show leads are very thin, light leads, while for obedience I use a 6' leather. 5/8" leash with a heavier snap. My dogs move ahead of me in the breed ring, and do heel (and watch me) when we are doing obedience. When we come in and stop in the breed ring, i make a subtle move slightly to the front of the dog, and they stand/stay. In obedience, when we stop, they auto sit, or, if asked, front.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Solas Goldens said:


> I will say that some of his drifting is probably due to me being directionally challenged.LOL. Remember guys, I am totally new to this, and I am learning just as much as my pup!


 
If you don't have a mat to work on, put a chair or a cone or other visual, and aim the dog straight for it.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> Because you are also working in conformation, I'd be cautious about working him with a treat in your hand. In the breed ring, you do not want him looking up and over at you - it will completely throw off his movement - especially on the down and back.


I've actually been using the same leash and on rare occasions the same collar for both obedience and conformation and mine has had no problems with that. Same if I use food or not (but I don't like to use it a lot for obedience). I really think what matters is your individual dog and how you approach the training and make it separate.

I would be most concerned about the food in the long term. I think it is ok to get things going, but don't get stuck on it. I would move away from using the food after the dog had a few practices doing it right and then incorporate some sort of correction for drifting so the dog actually learns he shouldn't drift. This could be as simple as a butt tag or a quick pop and turn then lots of praise and play when the dog gets in the right position.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

If you mean the dog is crabbing when being gated and seems to have his front moving left/away from you -- this is usually caused by the handler pulling the dog to him or stringing him up -- the dog naturally opposes this and leans away from it. Loosen up the lead and see what happens. Many dogs naturally crab a small bit to make up for some structural weakness but not to the extreme.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

K9-Design said:


> If you mean the dog is crabbing when being gated and seems to have his front moving left/away from you -- this is usually caused by the handler pulling the dog to him or stringing him up -- the dog naturally opposes this and leans away from it. Loosen up the lead and see what happens. Many dogs naturally crab a small bit to make up for some structural weakness but not to the extreme.


 
And, if truly crabbing, I will also work the dog on the other side.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

@Solas and Pointgold re/differences - makes sense. 

I agree that the leash and collars you use in addition to the words and your body posture do make a huge difference<: 

And Solas - the directionally challenged thing is something I think everyone has a problem with. I do it when "about turning" because I'm left-footed. It's probably the same reason why we have outer circle problems with the f8. In that case, we are working on our footwork (T for abouts, single track for f8s). 

You can use colored tape on the floor to make sure you line yourself up. Or put a cone or some other object out as a reminder. Or if you are in a show, you can use the judge or rally cones as line-targets, and so forth. 



> I would be most concerned about the food in the long term. I think it is ok to get things going, but don't get stuck on it.


I agree. The treats like the leash and even the collar you use becomes a crutch. One thing my one teacher (Adele) said is that if you can't go out on the training floor and go through a whole routine without treats in your pocket, then you aren't ready for shows. <- When she said that, I think I was still using at least three handfuls of treats per class. :uhoh:


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Another thing to add in... be sure that "parallel" is part of your criteria for heeling and gaiting. And be sure to reinforce appropriately (and be sure to NOT reinforce inappropriate motion).

For your heeling, the Silvia Trkman video (



) may be very helpful. "Maintain Parallel" is one of the earliest criterion. We teach heeling in a similar way. And while no conformation expert by any means... we've had people in our manners class who do conformation and they have done the exercise to find it it useful (as well as a lot of rienforcers tossed ahead or fed with dog looking straight ahead).


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I have to disagree, it's absolutely not necessary for the dog to look up at you in obedience as long as he stays in proper heel position. If you intend to do multiple sports with your dog, especially field, I would not be encouraging the dog to look up while heeling.
I always thought it looked nice when the dogs look up while heeling, until a judge told me that those are the ones who can't keep their mind on what they're doing unless they are looking directly at the handler :doh:.
JMO of course.




Megora said:


> *nods* But having the dog look up at you while heeling is important for obedience work. Same thing with driving forward (tossing the treat forward) but collected in the heel position (treat at hip bone).
> 
> Do you use seperate words for when you are doing obedience training and conformation training? <- I'm asking, because with the conformation work you do not want the dog heeling at all, right?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

another thing, check the position of your shoulders (easiest to have someone else look for you). 
If you are tipping your left shoulder slightly back, or dropping it down a little (especially to turn a little and check where your dog is), it often causes them to drift to the left. You are getting into his "space" and he will drift away.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

hotel4dogs said:


> I have to disagree, it's absolutely not necessary for the dog to look up at you in obedience as long as he stays in proper heel position. If you intend to do multiple sports with your dog, especially field, I would not be encouraging the dog to look up while heeling.
> I always thought it looked nice when the dogs look up while heeling, until a judge told me that those are the ones who can't keep their mind on what they're doing unless they are looking directly at the handler :doh:.
> JMO of course.


I think I've heard that before... or maybe my teacher from last year brought it up as an alternative...? It sounds familiar. 

With her she taught us that a dog who is looking around everywhere is twice as likely to get transfixed by the bouncing dumbbells in the next ring and either forge or lag out of heel position or go jumping fences. 

I guess it does make sense though that you need to teach your dog to work through distractions (bouncing dumbbells), especially since people can be rattled when first entering the ring and might start heeling without that perfect attention from their dog. 

And OMG. You are absolutely right about the tipped shoulder. :doh:


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> I have to disagree, it's absolutely not necessary for the dog to look up at you in obedience as long as he stays in proper heel position. If you intend to do multiple sports with your dog, especially field, I would not be encouraging the dog to look up while heeling.


I agree it's not necessary to have a dog look up at you while heeling (although it is my preference). But I would disagree that you shouldn't teach your dog to look up if teaching field work. That's like saying don't teach your dog to sit if you're going to do conformation. Dogs can be taught to heel different ways in different circumstances. 

When I first started in the field and had that question I was given the example of Connie Cleveland: her dogs have wonderful attention heeling in obedience, but look out when heeling in the field. I've never seen Janice Gunn's dogs work in the field but they certainlyheel with attention in the obedience ring. And both Connie and Janice have produced dogs that can perform at the top levels of both sports, both OTCH and Field Champions. And sure enough, Conner has no trouble going between attention heeling and field heeling.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Loisiana said:


> I agree it's not necessary to have a dog look up at you while heeling (although it is my preference). But I would disagree that you shouldn't teach your dog to look up if teaching field work. That's like saying don't teach your dog to sit if you're going to do conformation. Dogs can be taught to heel different ways in different circumstances.
> 
> When I first started in the field and had that question I was given the example of Connie Cleveland: her dogs have wonderful attention heeling in obedience, but look out when heeling in the field. I've never seen Janice Gunn's dogs work in the field but they certainlyheel with attention in the obedience ring. And both Connie and Janice have produced dogs that can perform at the top levels of both sports, both OTCH and Field Champions. And sure enough, Conner has no trouble going between attention heeling and field heeling.



Concur. I would never train an obedience dog to heel WITHOUT looking at the handler. 
Heel in the field is totally different and trust me there is not a dog out there who can't tell the difference.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Loisiana said:


> I agree it's not necessary to have a dog look up at you while heeling (although it is my preference). But I would disagree that you shouldn't teach your dog to look up if teaching field work. That's like saying don't teach your dog to sit if you're going to do conformation. Dogs can be taught to heel different ways in different circumstances.
> 
> When I first started in the field and had that question I was given the example of Connie Cleveland: her dogs have wonderful attention heeling in obedience, but look out when heeling in the field. I've never seen Janice Gunn's dogs work in the field but they certainlyheel with attention in the obedience ring. And both Connie and Janice have produced dogs that can perform at the top levels of both sports, both OTCH and Field Champions. And sure enough, Conner has no trouble going between attention heeling and field heeling.


I agree--I teach strut for obedience and heel for field. I think there is an advantage to teaching a dog to look up the whole time. Not only is it flashy, but it keeps the dog focused on you and not other things going on. 

My trainer once mentioned how she took her boy to a competition where there were holes with little critters popping out of them. She said many successful trainers were very concerned and worried about their dog's performance. She did not have to worry about her dog, however, because he wouldn't be looking at them.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Bridget Carlson is another one who does both field and obedience, with multiple MH and OTCH dogs, and yes, her dogs look up at her while heeling in the obedience ring but not in the field.
Sadly, I am not of the caliber of Bridget, nor Connie, nor Janice.




Loisiana said:


> I agree it's not necessary to have a dog look up at you while heeling (although it is my preference). But I would disagree that you shouldn't teach your dog to look up if teaching field work. That's like saying don't teach your dog to sit if you're going to do conformation. Dogs can be taught to heel different ways in different circumstances.
> 
> When I first started in the field and had that question I was given the example of Connie Cleveland: her dogs have wonderful attention heeling in obedience, but look out when heeling in the field. I've never seen Janice Gunn's dogs work in the field but they certainlyheel with attention in the obedience ring. And both Connie and Janice have produced dogs that can perform at the top levels of both sports, both OTCH and Field Champions. And sure enough, Conner has no trouble going between attention heeling and field heeling.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

If you do choose to teach your dog to look up at you while heeling, be sure that his/her head is not getting in front of your body (if you've seen it in the ring you know exactly what I'm talking about) but rather stays next to you in proper heel position.
A lot of people lose points under some judges for "impeding progress" and/or "forging" if the dog's head gets in front of their body, looking up at their face.
I guess if I had a highly reactive dog I would probably teach him to heel looking up at me, but he isn't at all (although on occasion he has been known to take the "scenic route" on a finish real near the steward's table).





GoldenSail said:


> I agree--I teach strut for obedience and heel for field. I think there is an advantage to teaching a dog to look up the whole time. Not only is it flashy, but it keeps the dog focused on you and not other things going on.
> 
> My trainer once mentioned how she took her boy to a competition where there were holes with little critters popping out of them. She said many successful trainers were very concerned and worried about their dog's performance. She did not have to worry about her dog, however, because he wouldn't be looking at them.


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## Retrieverlover (Feb 8, 2010)

Pointgold said:


> Yes. Work him on both sides. We all tend to ONLY work dogs on our left, moving counter clockwise. It make them "left handed", so to speak. I teach my dogs to work on a long line (as lunging a horse) moving BOTH counter clockwise and clockwise, so they are more flexible physically, as well as know how to move straight any way I ask them to. They don't anticipate, and work as I need them to when I need them to. They are happier, and less bored, too.



Working on both sides comes in very handy if you ever wanna do agility. My lab was a bit confused in the beginning when I kept switching sides on him but he got the game now  (and frankly, it doesn't take a lot to confuse him)


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## Rastadog (Oct 24, 2006)

*work against a long wall*

To teach you to walk straight work against a wall. Another thought, many times we think it's the dog, I wonder what you are doing with your head position. If you look left it can push the dog left. Keep your face in your space.Last it's so important to keep your feet and knees together. I wonder if when you start your left foot is interfering with your dog, forcing a left bias. What I learned early in our obedience work, It's usually the handlers fault when our dogs do something. Look to your behavior has a handler before you think it's the dog.

My obedience dog heeled with her head up. Not just looking up but having active attention, where your dog is engaged and interested in what you are doing. There is a balance you have to find so they are not forged and wrapped around your leg. I worked hard to get her to look at me that way. What I wouldn't pay to see her in heel position one more time. She's been gone 6 years.


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## Solas Goldens (Nov 10, 2007)

HI everyone..... I'll write more tomorrow after I work with Finn, but here are some thoughts.
1) I definitely think the drifting is my fault. I realized that the ground we work on has a very slight slope to it. The point at which he starts to drift is where I start to move over to prevent myself from drifting to the right and going off course. With that said, I also think I am holding the lead up to high and tight. Poor baby no wonder he is trying to get some space.

2) I am trying to be conscious of where I am looking so I head straight and don't drift. 

3)The food issue, is tough.Finn is definitely motivated by food.In the obedience/rally work I have done, we use food incentive. In Conformation the first trainer we had, had me using a lot of food incentive, but the new trainer does not encourage that, so I have had to cut back and only use food to get him to settle so I can stack him.Last night the trainer was using a treat to get him to free stack after we did what ever she asked us to do, triangle, down & back etc. The bigger problem was he expected it, looked for it, and when he got it he wanted more.It was difficult for me to get his attention back on me without food.

4) As far as eye contact, with Finn, there are varied amounts depending on what we are doing.There is much more in the obedience/rally, than in conformation. however I have taught "Watch Me" to refocus his attention on me, and use that when doing both.

Everyone gave great suggestions, and it will take me a bit to digest it all, I'll keep you all posted.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Solas Goldens said:


> 3)The food issue, is tough.Finn is definitely motivated by food.In the obedience/rally work I have done, we use food incentive. In Conformation the first trainer we had, had me using a lot of food incentive, but the new trainer does not encourage that, so I have had to cut back and only use food to get him to settle so I can stack him.Last night the trainer was using a treat to get him to free stack after we did what ever she asked us to do, triangle, down & back etc. The bigger problem was he expected it, looked for it, and when he got it he wanted more.It was difficult for me to get his attention back on me without food.


I agree food is very tough. I would suggest as I did in other threads--wait for a time when your dog really REALLY wants your attention and then go train. Do something very easy and work in tiny pieces and then play and praise your dog. Make playing with you a big deal--let the dug tug on his leash, play grab at his tail or ears, jump up and down with him. Be crazy  Work up from there for longer duration sans food.


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## Solas Goldens (Nov 10, 2007)

Hey,,,, Just an update...... I took many of the suggestions given, and had really good success training on Wednesday night.Although we were doing rally not conformation, Finn didn't drift at all. This morning we went out to work, I wanted to minimize the use of food,so I used lots of praise with play in between,and it worked out well. 
Thanks Again Everyone!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Yay Phyllis! Glad to hear it's working out!


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