# Growling and nipping.



## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

She is still a pup and I would attribute it to just a phase she is going through where she is testing you. I think if you just keep doing what you are doing it will pass. Don't let her growls change your behavior or else she will see that it works.


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## Celeigh (Nov 29, 2007)

Have you considered a nail grinder? You are much less likely to cause pain and you get nice smooth nails.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Oaklys Dad said:


> She is still a pup and I would attribute it to just a phase she is going through where she is testing you. I think if you just keep doing what you are doing it will pass. Don't let her growls change your behavior or else she will see that it works.


That's sort of what I thought. Very recently she has become extremely nippy and has been testing everyone's patience (particularly my father's), so I sort of figured this was her way of being a b*tchy teenager. :



Celeigh said:


> Have you considered a nail grinder? You are much less likely to cause pain and you get nice smooth nails.


Yeah, I've been thinking about those a lot. Flora's breeder said they were a waste of money, but Flora's nails are always so sharp feeling and it's really hard trying to clip them. A grinder sounds like it may be a bit easier.


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## Old Gold Mum2001 (Feb 25, 2007)

I'll send my Jax over, he can teach her how to bite her nails


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Old Gold Mum2001 said:


> I'll send my Jax over, he can teach her how to bite her nails


Haha. I'm a terrible nail biter. I should be able to give her some tips too.


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## Cratemail (Nov 6, 2008)

Just a thought - I have only clipped Duncan's nails after he's had his exercise and is a little pooped out. I tried to do this once before he had his walk/run and he was definitely not a happy fella.

After his walk/run, he is much more compliant and doesn't seem to care as much and it goes much faster, without any complaint from him. I'm sure Flora is just letting you know that her paws are sensitive and she isn't very happy about the nail clipping.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

That's what I'm hoping. Flora is by no means an aggressive dog (although I pity the person who tries to take a marrow bone away from her ) so I thinks she's just saying, "Hey, my paws are sensitive, leave them alone!" 

Even when she's sleeping and I go to massage her paws, she'll always pull them away from me. I guess she'll never want to hold hands with me. 

I think today I tried grooming her right after a really good walk, but maybe she wasn't tired enough. I'll try it again when I'm sure she's nice and sleepy!


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

I wouldn't take her off the table and stop the grooming when she growls and nips. That reinforces that nasty behavior works like a charm. Even if you want to stop the nail clipping, you might want to switch to combing or something else while still on the table. Wait a bit to break the growl/nip/"yay I got to get down" connection. Welcome to puppy adolescence


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I think what Finn's Fan said can't be overemphasized. You've already taught her now that growling and nipping works. You're going to have to un-teach it by keeping her on the table when she starts. If she quickly sees that it gets her nowhere, she's much more likely to stop doing it.
One thing I would suggest, though, is never try to do all the paws on one day at her age. Do ONE paw. Then praise her and let her down. Maybe even clip one nail, give her a treat, clip another, another treat. Let her learn that this, although not her favorite thing, isn't really all that horrible. Use high value treats.
Another thing that worries me is your statement that you pity anyone who tries to take a marrow bone away from her. If you were serious, this tells me that the problem isn't with the grooming table, it's with your puppy's idea of where she fits in with the order of the pack. I think you need to work on her "too big for her britches" attitude before it escalates and starts flowing over to other areas, such as when you tell her to move if she's in your way, etc. 




Finn's Fan said:


> I wouldn't take her off the table and stop the grooming when she growls and nips. That reinforces that nasty behavior works like a charm. Even if you want to stop the nail clipping, you might want to switch to combing or something else while still on the table. Wait a bit to break the growl/nip/"yay I got to get down" connection. Welcome to puppy adolescence


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> I think what Finn's Fan said can't be overemphasized. You've already taught her now that growling and nipping works. You're going to have to un-teach it by keeping her on the table when she starts. If she quickly sees that it gets her nowhere, she's much more likely to stop doing it.
> One thing I would suggest, though, is never try to do all the paws on one day at her age. Do ONE paw. Then praise her and let her down. Maybe even clip one nail, give her a treat, clip another, another treat. Let her learn that this, although not her favorite thing, isn't really all that horrible. Use high value treats.
> Another thing that worries me is your statement that you pity anyone who tries to take a marrow bone away from her. If you were serious, this tells me that the problem isn't with the grooming table, it's with your puppy's idea of where she fits in with the order of the pack. I think you need to work on her "too big for her britches" attitude before it escalates and starts flowing over to other areas, such as when you tell her to move if she's in your way, etc.



Well, I suppose I mislead you. When she growled the first time, I stopped clipping and moved on to giving her a quick brush with a comb and then I took her off the table. The second time she growled I was in the process of taking her off the table, so I don't know what that was about.

And I usually try and do 2 or 3 nails at a time. I'm lucky if I can get 1 done because she's so squirmy. I don't want to nick her quick again!

The marrow bone thing was sort of a joke. She'll usually bring one up to me after she's been chewing on it a while and growl playfully and shove it in my face and try to get me to play with it, but that totally grosses me out so I usually just leave it alone. I did try moving a marrow bone onto a blanket to keep her bed clean when she was in her crate eating it, and she gave me a warning growl. I ignored it and continued to move the bone anyways and she didn't do anything, but I sort of figure it was unfair of me to meddle with her while she was in her crate. I just hated the thought of blood getting on her bed. :

I think she's just testing her boundaries at this point. We've noticed a change in her behavior over the last week or so - she a lot more nippy, a lot more demanding, and we're working on letting her know that that sort of behavior isn't going to do anything in her favor.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I think you need to go back to square one and start making the grooming table a great place to be. Put her up there and give her a treat. Take her back down. Do that over and over. Then add in picking up her foot and giving her a treat while you are holding her foot (as long as she isn't growling or yanking away. As soon as she is not squirming give her a treat). This will begin to reinforce that being up on the table and being handled is a good thing.


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## Sqwumpkin (Jan 28, 2009)

What age is your pup?


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

She's 4 months.

Fostermom - I was doing that yesterday, actually, since I decided she needed a little more reassuring that the grooming table was a nice place. I would pick up her paw, massage it a little, then click and treat. I would tap the clipper against her paw, and click and treat. It's good advice, I'll continue to do it. 

Flora isn't an aggressive dog at all; I'm not worried about her getting that way. She's super submissive and super sweet. I think she's just entering that "adolescent" stage where she begins testing my patience. Up until now she has been as docile as a lamb (and for the most part still is!), but now she's turning into a little landshark. :uhoh: I was wondering when her nippy days would come... I think I finally got my answer.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Ah, that's much different. I had erroneously thought you meant she growled and you took her right off the table! I misunderstood you.




kdmarsh said:


> Well, I suppose I mislead you. When she growled the first time, I stopped clipping and moved on to giving her a quick brush with a comb and then I took her off the table. The second time she growled I was in the process of taking her off the table, so I don't know what that was about.
> 
> And I usually try and do 2 or 3 nails at a time. I'm lucky if I can get 1 done because she's so squirmy. I don't want to nick her quick again!
> 
> ...


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Well, I did her again today on the table. She was really good the whole time (I clipped 3 nails) and then when I finished, took off the noose, and tried to take her off the table, she started wrinkling up her muzzle and baring her teeth at me! She didn't growl and she never really outrightly tried to bite me, but it was really unusual. I simply stood my ground and tried a couple more times, but she kept baring her teeth. So I finally stood back a step, counted to ten, and said, "Ready to get off the table?!" in a really excited voice, and proceeded to take her off the table with no muzzle wrinkling or baring of teeth.

Why the heck is she doing that? It's so weird. She's seeing her vet on Wednesday so I'll make sure to find out if she's tender anywhere on her body which might explain why she doesn't want to be picked up, but she doesn't seem to really have a problem being picked up anywhere else.

It's perplexing.


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## Nikki Boy (Mar 14, 2009)

There probably is something to be said for some of the comments above. Young dogs are like teens testing boundaries and finding their place in the family. Probably something you should "nip in the bud" - pardon the pun. 
One thing I found - try to walk her on blacktop or cement (greenway or something) - nails stay nice and short - no need for cutting.


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

(although I pity the person who tries to take a marrow bone away from her )

Like hotel4dogs, this statement kind of disturbs me. 

Only my opinion, but I firmly believe that an owner should be able to take anything including a marrow bone from their dog without fear of getting nipped at or bit. I have four dogs here, they have a definite pack order, but I'm at the head of the pack. What I say goes, with four dogs we would have pure bedlam if any of them were allowed to think they were the head of the pack. There is no doubt in my mind that I could go up to any of them and take something out of their mouth, have had to do it many many times and not once have any of them shown any kind of agression or guarding. If it had happened the wrath of me would have fallen upon them and they would have been very sorry puppies. Flora is just a puppy, right? She needs to learn that nipping during nail clipping is not acceptable, growling at her owner is not acceptable, and her toys and treats can be taken back by you at any given moment. Just a matter of her understanding the rules of the house, if you are consistent and firm won't take long for her to figure it out. She is probably just testing you to see how far she can go. Goldens are very clever dogs, just need to learn the rules so everybody is happy. I know somebody who now is having some very serious issues with her golden, he was allowed to get away with all kinds of stuff when he was younger, now he is showing aggression towards his owner and others, and being full grown and 70 pounds it is a very real problem. Anyway, just my 2 cents.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*My experience*

KD:

We've had puppies before and I don't ever remember clipping their nails that often. I agree the sander might be better.

Also, our Male dog Snobear has never liked his paws touched-he has always pulled them away immediately, whereas Smooch doesn't mind at all.

Maybe your baby thinks this is a game and she's playing with you.
I agree the behavior should be stopped-I'm sure the vet can offer some suggestions.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

Brooks has never liked his paws touched. He always pulls them back when they are touched or even reached for. He also will sortof bite toward my hands but never in an aggressive way.
This creates problems when I have to dry his paws with a towel after he has been outside on rainy days (we get over 50" year of rain).


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I'd start with just feeding her treats on the table and take her off. Repeat often. Apart from that, touch her feet and feed treats at the same time - just on the floor, not on the table. Then try to put them together, all w/o even having clippers. Then add clippers in your hand, aim them at a paw, feed a treat and stop. Then touch a nail with clippers (don't clip) and feed. You get the idea. Move in tiny little steps and gradually shape her acceptance of having feet handled and nails done.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Of course, we took a different approach with Tito (and my other dogs). We just grabbed their feet and clipped. If they tried to pull back, or my female tried to nip at me, we whapped them upside the head and they never tried it again. All 3 of them calmly offer their foot to have their nails cut. 
Sort of old school dog training.
Hmmm, now you're thinking....is she kidding, or isn't she????


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

All excellent suggestions, thank you so much! I do think she is definitely testing her boundaries with me in many different areas. She has started digging in the yard, and when I scold her and say no, she'll run around me in circles and then go right back to digging. Sometimes she'll whip by me and give me a quick nip on the leg, like it's fun. Little brat. I will just be consistent in letting her know in a firm, calm manner, that I am boss and I am not going to let her tell me what to do.

As for resource guarding, it's really the first time she ever growled at me, and as I said before, she was in her crate and it was a VERY delicious treat. I am now working on giving her delicious things like bully sticks and marrow bones and trading them for something of higher value (in her instance, pop corn. She goes nuts over it.) So I say, "Let's trade!" and I offer up a piece of popcorn and take her item away. Then I give it back. So far no problems with that. She usually starts ignoring the other item and just begs me for popcorn. :

Oh and Karen - I don't clip her nails every single day. I just get her on the table every single day. And when I DO get the chance to clip a nail, it's not much more than a sliver, so I guess I clip her nails sliver by sliver.  I don't want to get her quick so I'm really careful.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> Of course, we took a different approach with Tito (and my other dogs). We just grabbed their feet and clipped. If they tried to pull back, or my female tried to nip at me, we whapped them upside the head and they never tried it again. All 3 of them calmly offer their foot to have their nails cut.
> Sort of old school dog training.
> Hmmm, now you're thinking....is she kidding, or isn't she????


You have me confused. But I don't think I will try that method. Flora might start hating me. :


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## mygarnetboy (Nov 3, 2008)

I'll second the walking on concrete thing--I seldom have to clip Sherman's nails during nice weather b/c the concrete wears them down so much during our walks.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

It helped *me* when we muzzled Lexi (our girl with a history of fear biting). With her muzzled, I found that I could relax and feel more confident...which in turn (over time) helped her relax..

The muzzle did nothing to immediately change her feeling about having her nails clipped - she was still very anxious and would snap and try to bite, but it did allow me to safely and confidently proceed.

With much repetition, over time, her history of good experiences has (slowly) changed her expectations of what happens when her nails are trimmed.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Nah, I wasn't seriously suggesting you smack her upside the head!: I'm truly not into physical punishment, won't even "force fetch" train my dog in obedience.
But I am serious that a golden with a sound temperament can take a fair correction, fairly given, and just move on. They will not hate you for it, they will just shake it off as deserved. Never worry that your dog will hate you if you give a FAIR correction that was deserved.
As far as trading up for high value treats, this may also be an unpopular opinion but I am greatly opposed to that method. 
What will you trade her when she comes flying up to you outside with that yummy box of rat poison clamped firmly between her teeth? Or a nice bony chicken breast that she happened to get hold of when someone dropped it on the floor? 
In a previous post I mentioned a golden that put a gash in the owner's daughter's arm which required over 15 stitches to close. It involved a "high value treat" that would have been quite toxic to the dog, and the 12 year old daughter didn't have anything to trade. Not saying your dog would ever do anything like that, it's unusual behavior, but can be a result of the training method.
It basically has to do with the difference between using food as a lure, and as a reward.
Something to think about.





kdmarsh said:


> You have me confused. But I don't think I will try that method. Flora might start hating me. :


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> Nah, I wasn't seriously suggesting you smack her upside the head!: I'm truly not into physical punishment, won't even "force fetch" train my dog in obedience.
> But I am serious that a golden with a sound temperament can take a fair correction, fairly given, and just move on. They will not hate you for it, they will just shake it off as deserved. Never worry that your dog will hate you if you give a FAIR correction that was deserved.
> As far as trading up for high value treats, this may also be an unpopular opinion but I am greatly opposed to that method.
> What will you trade her when she comes flying up to you outside with that yummy box of rat poison clamped firmly between her teeth? Or a nice bony chicken breast that she happened to get hold of when someone dropped it on the floor?
> ...


Well, I will admit that there have been times when I've pried Flora's mouth open and yanked something nasty from her mouth and didn't give her anything in return. In fact, I did that yesterday with a big old glob of mud and grass. She doesn't seem to put up protest with that. What other methods do you suggest for this situation? And as I've said before, I don't really think she's particularly possessive of her treats, but some treats she will snap up and run away from me when I approach her, which to me indicates that she is possessive of that particular treat.

As for correcting Flora, I'm not sure how to "correct" her when she growls at me or bares her teeth. I usually just stand my ground and keep my hands on her to show her that I'm not afraid.

Oh, and as for walking her on concrete, I'm trying to avoid a lot of hard impermeable surfaces right now just b/c she's so young and I want to watch out for her joints. I've been taking her mostly on wood chip pathways and gravel pathways, but as she gets older she'll definitely get more walking on concrete. Good idea.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I hope others will answer this as well, because I don't claim to be an expert, can only tell you what I've done with my own dogs.
I teach the "drop it" command from the day they come home. 
Start with, as you said, a low value treat (or a big glob of mud and grass works just fine!) or any time you see her with something in her mouth that's not a real high value treat.
Tell her "DROP IT" in a no nonsense voice. The first few times, pry her mouth open and yank it out if you need to. Then immediately tell her GOOD GIRL, GOOD DROP IT etc. and then give her a treat which you have had HIDDEN until this time. 
Repeat it very often with low value items. The critical difference is that the food is a reward, not a lure. She doesn't see the food in order to drop something, but if she doesn't drop it, you are going to take it from her anyway. 
After just a few times, stop giving her the treat if you have to pry her mouth open. Goldens are very smart. She will quickly learn that, in order to earn a treat, she's going to have to drop whatever is in her mouth. You pry it out, no treat. She drops it, nice treat.
As you progress with it, start using higher value items and having her drop them. You might need to take it slowly, that's fine. I think you are pretty patient from your posts, and if she doesn't drop it, go right back to prying it out of her mouth. No drop, no treat. 
When she will drop pretty much anything on command, you can start using variable treats. Sometimes she just gets petting or praise, other times she gets a treat, sometimes maybe a favorite toy or you play with her for a while. It's like a lottery effect, she doesn't know if THIS is the time she's going to get a treat. 
Soon she will be able to drop something whenever you tell her to. It's worked really well for my dogs. 
As far as the growling/snapping, I hesitate to answer this one. I had one of my goldens pull that stuff on me (a female, neither of my males ever did) and I can tell you what I did. Others can answer and maybe make better suggestions, but this worked for my dog. I'd like to qualify my answer that I would NOT try this on an older dog who shows bite potential, only on puppies. 
When my female (Tiny) would growl/show her teeth, at about the same age as Flora, I would grab her muzzle firmly and give it a shake, and tell her "NO" in absolutely no uncertain terms. Then she would IMMEDIATELY go into a down-stay. (I teach down and stay when my dogs first come home also, as I find them infinitely valuable in the rest of their training). If she tried to move, it was, UH UH, STAY in no uncertain terms. Remember, she knew what stay meant. Down is a very submissive position for a dog. To be forced into a 5 minute DOWN-STAY any time she got bratty put an end to the bratty behavior real fast.
I hope that's some help. 



kdmarsh said:


> Well, I will admit that there have been times when I've pried Flora's mouth open and yanked something nasty from her mouth and didn't give her anything in return. In fact, I did that yesterday with a big old glob of mud and grass. She doesn't seem to put up protest with that. What other methods do you suggest for this situation? And as I've said before, I don't really think she's particularly possessive of her treats, but some treats she will snap up and run away from me when I approach her, which to me indicates that she is possessive of that particular treat.
> 
> As for correcting Flora, I'm not sure how to "correct" her when she growls at me or bares her teeth. I usually just stand my ground and keep my hands on her to show her that I'm not afraid.
> 
> Oh, and as for walking her on concrete, I'm trying to avoid a lot of hard impermeable surfaces right now just b/c she's so young and I want to watch out for her joints. I've been taking her mostly on wood chip pathways and gravel pathways, but as she gets older she'll definitely get more walking on concrete. Good idea.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> I hope others will answer this as well, because I don't claim to be an expert, can only tell you what I've done with my own dogs.
> I teach the "drop it" command from the day they come home.
> Start with, as you said, a low value treat (or a big glob of mud and grass works just fine!) or any time you see her with something in her mouth that's not a real high value treat.
> Tell her "DROP IT" in a no nonsense voice. The first few times, pry her mouth open and yank it out if you need to. Then immediately tell her GOOD GIRL, GOOD DROP IT etc. and then give her a treat which you have had HIDDEN until this time.
> ...


That was a great deal of help, thank you! I wasn't sure if I should do something like that to express my dominance over her - I didn't want her to begin fearing me which would in turn add to her "aggression". I think next time she bares her teeth at me I will firmly but gently grab her muzzle and say "NO." very sternly. She knows down and stay, so I will do that as well. She's just such a super submissive dog that it surprised me when she first bared her teeth.

I have been touching her paws a lot since and she hasn't once bared her teeth or growled, although I can tell she doesn't like them touched.

As for the drop it command, I have been pretty bad with that one. She'll drop toys and shoes at this point, but she won't drop things like coyote turds, dead animals, grass, mud, etc., so I will definitely work on what you suggested.

Thank you so much!


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## Joanne & Asia (Jul 23, 2007)

I agree that the down stay is a very valuable tool to put them in their place when needed. It is a non physical way of telling them you are the boss. Necessary if your pup is showing any dominant behaviours.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

I guess I'm so hesitant to let Flora know I'm the boss because she is such a painfully submissive dog around other people and dogs. I don't want her to think she always has to be submissive, but I do understand that she needs to know I am alpha, not her. 


Thank you for all of the useful information.


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## Joanne & Asia (Jul 23, 2007)

I hear you as Asia was very submissive around other dogs and people as a puppy however the dominance gradually grew and led to aggression with some dogs so we had to get a handle on it. Best to mamage it early before it becomes too much of a problem.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

My female, the one that we had to discipline as described before, was also very submissive around most people and dogs, and was even prone to submissive peeing. That doesn't really stop the bratty behavior.



Joanne & Asia said:


> I hear you as Asia was very submissive around other dogs and people as a puppy however the dominance gradually grew and led to aggression with some dogs so we had to get a handle on it. Best to mamage it early before it becomes too much of a problem.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Hm, that's interesting to know. I'll have to make sure I address this issue early on then. She growled at me yesterday when I tried to pick her up to take her to bed (she had planted herself in my bathroom and wouldn't budge when I called her.) I put my hand over her muzzle and said "Flora no!" in a stern voice, and then carried her into my bedroom. I'll still check with my vet to make sure she doesn't hurt anywhere, but this morning when I have picked her up twice already (one to carry her down a steep flight of stairs she can't do yet) and she had no problem with it.

I have been practicing "confidence building" exercises with Flora such as losing to tug of war and dominant roleplay. Maybe I'll stop that for now since she thinks her britches are bigger than mine.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I have to say I commend you for addressing this now and taking decisive action. It's sad to see how many owners (and here at the pet hotel, I see it a lot) just make excuses for the puppy and let it go on and on, until it becomes a major problem.
Dontcha love teenagers?
I wouldn't stop the games, I'd just change who wins!


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> I have to say I commend you for addressing this now and taking decisive action. It's sad to see how many owners (and here at the pet hotel, I see it a lot) just make excuses for the puppy and let it go on and on, until it becomes a major problem.
> Dontcha love teenagers?
> I wouldn't stop the games, I'd just change who wins!


Yeah I think I've been letting her get away with too many things because she's "just a cute little puppy and I don't want to upset her." I have found that now when I issue commands in a much more authoritative voice Flora almost always obeys, as compared to when I would pretty much say "please" after every command. :doh: 

I do NOT want to deal with a puppy that grows up to be an aggressive dog (although I really don't think Flora has an aggressive bone in her body), so I am going to monitor her behavior like a hawk over the next few months and make sure she doesn't get out of hand.

Thank you for all of your help.  And yeah... I might start winning tug of war every now and then. :


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

this is often true of husbands, too 



kdmarsh said:


> I have found that now when I issue commands in a much more authoritative voice Flora almost always obeys, as compared to when I would pretty much say "please" after every command. :doh:


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> this is often true of husbands, too


LOL, I'll have to keep that in mind if ever I marry.


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