# 2nd day of puppy school went OK But???



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> She suggested we get an older female who will not tolerate her hard playing, but one who will not hurt her. I am currently looking.


This is probably just me, but I wouldn't be getting a second dog just to train a puppy to play nice with a poodle at puppy class. I would simply make sure she's not playing with that poodle. He does not sound like a dog I'd want playing with my dog.

As far as the "hyena back", that's normal.


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## pensgirl (Apr 18, 2011)

"I wouldn't be getting a second dog just to train a puppy to play nice with a poodle at puppy class. I would simply make sure she's not playing with that poodle. " Megora

Do you think the problem is the poodle? I got the impression from the trainer and the poodle owner (who helps out with training) that the problem was Sadie.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

pensgirl said:


> "I wouldn't be getting a second dog just to train a puppy to play nice with a poodle at puppy class. I would simply make sure she's not playing with that poodle. " Megora
> 
> Do you think the problem is the poodle? I got the impression from the trainer and the poodle owner (who helps out with training) that the problem was Sadie.


I was going off of this quote:



> The problem was the poodle was very rough with his play. He growled and bit hard.


I do not think it's appropriate that they are talking about you bringing a second dog to teach your dog bite inhibition. I would be hoping they would be teaching you when to go in and break up play when it is getting too pushy.


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## pensgirl (Apr 18, 2011)

They did break them up and give Sadie a "time out" in a blocked off section of the room. That is what made me think that the problem was her. They never gave me a detailed reason, just that she needs to learn how to understand the warning of other dogs. With the hair on her back, I thought maybe she was agressive. It all started when she put her paws on his back. He growled and bit and she didn't get down. When she started to bite (not growling) they broke them up. Took Him by the scruff with a shake. I'm starting to think he may be agressive. Not wanting her on his back. I thought they were supposed to take turns equally with top and bottom during play. I just want a well adjusted dog, now I am more confused than ever.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

I agree with Kate about getting a 2nd dog. The trainer is supposed to be there to tell you what to do in that situation so you and your dog can improve! She will not getting any better and you are not training her by adding a 2nd dog?

I just do not understand their reasoning for this. May I ask, if you know, how many years they have been training and what their qualifications are.

If your girl was getting along with all of the other pups and the poodle was the one growling first. I would think the poodle was aggressive and not yours. JMHO. I am not there....so, I can not say for sure. What are they doing about it? I would ask after class, what are some things for you to fix that (not by getting an older dog)! Surely, they can think of something else!!


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## pensgirl (Apr 18, 2011)

I am not sure of how long they have been in training or their qualifications. The class was recommended by my vet. I became a bit leary when they were reading from note cards. Actually, everything they covered so far Sadie could aready do perfectly. Look at me, (eye contact), Name (turn head toward me), sit, and leave it. Everything I learned was from a book and this forum. They did show us a pressure point in front or their hip bone. Since she sits so well, I don't think I will need to use it. I live in a very rual area. Not much available for dog training. I have checked into agility training centers for later. I would like to try that when she is older. Fun for both her and I, but the closest is over an hour a way and only evening classes. It just is not possible with work and young girls' sporting events.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think either dog was being 'aggressive'. Aggressive gets thrown around a lot when in reality, it's just doggie to doggie manners. She put her paws on the poodle's back in play, the poodle growled that it's 'impolite' to do so, she didn't listen, so she got nipped at. She needs to learn other dog's signs for easing up and that's what the puppy class is (supposedly) to be teaching. No pup or dog immediately knows how to play or when enough is enough. Case in point: Scarlett has been all over Ranger in the last day. She's hopping up and biting his face. Proper puppy manners? Nope. So he growled at her in warning, she didn't listen/know/respect the warning and kept doing it, so he snapped at her. She yelped and took off. 2 minutes later she came back to play but was a lot nicer about it. Later in the night he gave another soft growl and she immediately stopped. A fairly similar scenario to what you described except your pup didn't back down and that's why the trainer stepped in. I don't think either dog is aggressive. It's all part of learning how to play properly.

Another example I have is when I first adopted Ranger when he was 9 months. He'd never been socialized with other dogs and didn't know how to initiate play. Instead of play bowing, he'd put both front paws on the other's dog back. He tried that once with a friend's rottweiler. Rottweiler turned, growled and snapped and Ranger snapped back. Ranger got a time out. Next meeting, Ranger didn't try that. 

The whole 'get another dog' thing is a red flag because it's ridiculous. But I don't think, and it's just my opinion, that you need to worry about 'aggression'.

Oh, and you're right about dogs taking turns about being top/bottom in play, but a dog putting it's front paws on another dog's back when standing is NOT the same thing. The poodle was right to correct your pup for it as it's bad manners. Some people think it's a dominance thing, but I think it sounds more like your puppy was just trying to play and didn't know how to initiate. So the poodle tried to tell her that was a wrong move.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

I agree with what everyone else is saying. The advice that you need to get another dog is ridiculous and impractical. Not everyone can afford or handle another dog at the drop of a hat, so they should focus on managing and teaching the puppy you have. Maybe they meant for you to just hang out with an older female dog? I don't know, it sounds ridiculous. The whole point of puppy classes is so dogs learn to play and socialize properly. There may be some mishaps, the way there were at this class, but its all a part of learning. It just sounds like that poodle was telling her that the way she was behaving was not appropriate. There is a big difference between aggression and puppies just learning how to play properly!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> The whole point of puppy classes is so dogs learn to play and socialize properly.


And it's also intended to teach the trainers how to train their dogs how to walk on leash and be under control long before the pups develop issues. Socialization should be getting the puppies used to being around other dogs and not necessarily feeling like that have to go and play with every puppy they meet... 

(I was one of those people that had flames shooting out of her ears when people let their dogs loose on the training floor. This when I did not want my guy to get used to the idea he should pay any attention to dogs while on the floor because then I'd have to untrain all of that.... I wound up sitting there with my 30-40 lb golden in my lap until they clicked their leashes back on)


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## pensgirl (Apr 18, 2011)

I should have been more clear. What I ment was for us to find a dog for her to play with. Not for us to have at home. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Ranger made it more clear to me why my Puppy was in time out and not the poodle. I will need to find some way for her to interact with other dogs. The only well adjusted dog I know of is my brother's chihuahua and she is too small to teach Sadie her manners.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

Okay well that makes more sense!! That is what I thought they must have meant - I can't imagine a trainer asking you to find another dog!!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Wait, wait, wait .... Did the trainer tell you to go add a second dog to your family, or find someone who has one to set up a play date? The latter could be a very good idea, so long as it's done quickly. Those kinds of lessons are best taught well before six months.

Sounds like she may be a bit of a Tarzan ... not knowing when to back off (not successfully reading other dog's cues), which means you need to A. pick her friends so she's not overwhelming other dogs, and B. breaking up rough play with dogs who seem to like it, so that your girl isn't practicing too much rough and tumble, which could turn into bully-like behaviors. On playdates, I'd only allow a few seconds of play before you break it up and get her in her thinking brain again (sit, down, watch, etc.) and then back to play.


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## DRM796 (Jun 23, 2011)

The trainer in our puppy class keeps a squirt bottle handy during play time and whenever the play gets to rough or barky she gives a couple of quick squirts to the dogs involved. Does just enough to break their focus, frequently the puppy leaves that play partner and moves on to another. This has worked very well with all the dogs.

Dennis


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