# laparoscopic spay vs laser spay



## Bella's Mommy (Jan 30, 2010)

My female is six months old (yesterday). I have decided to have her spayed. I have been search for information regarding the benefits of laparoscopic spay over laser spay. The only info I can find is laparoscopic spay vs traditional spay. I will either have laser or laparoscopic and I just can't decide. My previous Golden had laser and did well. My new girl is very active, so I can see the benefits of faster recovery time. Also, I am told that laser they remove both ovaries and uterus and that laparoscopic they will just remove the ovaries. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated as I need to make up my mind soon. (My vet has a month waiting list for laparoscopic spays...while laser is no wait...seems alot of people are opting for laparscopic. Thank you.:wavey:


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## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

Ill be interested to hear about this also...I have only heardof the traditional spay....


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I'm not sure I see the sense of removing ovaries and leaving the uterus? Without ovaries is she still subject to pyometra, or other uterine infections/tumors?

My friends and I are actually considering the opposite-having the uterus removed but leaving an ovary so the bitch retains the usefulness of her hormones. Of course we generally don't spay until the bitches are 6 years of age or older.


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## Bella's Mommy (Jan 30, 2010)

I was told if the the laparoscopic spay is after the first heat cycle then they will remove the uterus due to still change of pyometra, but if it is before the first heat cycle (which would be the case for my girl), then just ovaries.


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## Bella's Mommy (Jan 30, 2010)

Still debating. Your thoughts please. Thank you.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

A laser spay *is* a traditional spay, just with a laser doing the cutting instead of a scalpel blade. This is the way I spay dogs (laser). It is a actually quite a safe procedure (incidence of surgical problems is very low, not impossible, but low).

Laproscopic spays are performed through just a few of little holes in the abdominal wall. It is a safe procedure also. I would not hesitate to have my dog spayed this way, but I'm also very comfortable spaying my dogs traditionally (with or without a laser).

Either way you will need to keep your pup quiet for 1-2 weeks after surgery. One might think that the pup would do that naturally, but in my experience (with traditional spays) by the next day most pups are feeling pretty darn good.

As to the question of taking just ovaries, both the ovaries and the uterus, or leaving an ovary and taking the uterus: In a young pre-heat bitch I would be comfortable leaving the uterus. It's very small prior to heat and never develops if the ovaries are removed. The hormones from the ovaries are what cause pyos, not the presence of uterine tissue (granted uterine cancer would be possible, but probably not likely due to the lack of hormonal stimulation). I would of course be comfortable taking the uterus along with the ovaries too. I would not leave an ovary. Even without a uterus (or without MOST of the uterus-there will always be some uterine tissue left), the dog will go through heat cycles. She just won't bleed, but males will still think she's in heat, she'll think she's in heat, etc. Unless the cervix and everything is removed with the uterus (not something that is typically done) the bitch with an intact ovary will still be at risk for stump pyometra. This is not common in bitches with both ovaries removed (it *can* happen), but the incidence would have to be similar to "regular" pyo if an ovary is left.

One of my friends does laproscopic spays. I really want to watch one of her procedures one of these days. An endoscope is on my short list of "toys" I may ask my boss to consider at some point.

I think you will be satisfied either way you choose for your girl.

PS you might want to ask a mod to move this to a more appropriate forum. You'll probably get more feedback that way.


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## Bella's Mommy (Jan 30, 2010)

Update for those who may be considerating laparoscopic spay.
AMAZING. She was spayed laparoscopically on Thursday March 25th and had ovaries AND uterus removed. I did the preop lab which is VERY important and I also had her microchipped. She was a bit groggy that day of course from anesthesia. My vet said she could go back to all normal activity...walks, run, jump, bathe...the very next day on Friday. She I took her for a walk the next day on Friday and she did great. He did two incisions...about 1/2 inch each. The sutures are internal, therefore she does not have to go back to have stitches removed. The very next day...it is like she had nothing done...the only clue is the shaved tummy area. She is the most active golden of all my goldens so far...so I had concerns about keeping her quiet post recovery...which is why I chose this route. This has been wonderful. It cost about $200 more than traditional spay...but for me it was well worth it. Our daily walk steak is unbroken. I have taken her for a walk at least one a day since I brought her home at 3 months of age. The morning of her spay...I set the alarm for 5 a.m. so we could walk before I took her in for surgery. I totally expected not to be able to walk her the day after...but yes...much to Bella and my delight!!!!


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## jmamom (Dec 3, 2009)

Bella's mommy - *Thank you* for posting this! Josie is scheduled to have a laprascopic spay on Thursday and of course I'm worried about it. My vet does tell you to keep them quiet for a week, but I'm so happy to hear that she's not going to be in pain. Did she have any trouble sleeping that night? How about her appetite and potty needs - everything seem normal? Oh I will be a mess by Thursday, I know it!


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## honeysmum (Dec 4, 2007)

I have only just seen this thread, pleased to hear all went well with Bella's spay Honey had a Laparoscopic spay and was back to normal next day only thing she couldn't do was hydrotherapy for a week.


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## Dr. Jaffe (Aug 5, 2011)

*A vet's opinion*

I have been doing laparoscopic dog spays for the past 3 years. I do not do traditional spays anymore as laparoscopic spays are far less traumatic and my patients go home the same day, with no E-collar, no external sutures, no antibiotics and can return to normal activity the very next day. This is not the case with a traditional spay. A traditional spay requires tearing the ovarian ligament away from the kidney to which it is attached and this can cause additional bleeding. 
I generally only remove the ovaries (Ovariectomy)unless the uterus appears abnormal on laparoscopic exam. Plenty of research has been done on comparing the risk/benefit of removing the uterus vs leaving it in and only removing the ovaries. There is a great article about this on my website at www.drjaffe.com

Even with a traditional spay, the entire uterus is not usually removed. There is almost no risk of pyometra in an ovariectomized (ovary only) dog unless estrogen is given supplementally. The main benefit of removing the ovaries is to remove the estrogen as that is what triggers the heat cycle. If spayed before the first heat cycle, the risk of mammary cancer later in life is 0 percent. After the first heat, but before the second heat, there is a 25% chance of mammary cancer later in life. Spaying a dog after the 2nd heat cycle does not reduce its chances of developing mammary cancer. 

Laser surgery is not the same as laparoscopic. The laser is only used to make the skin incision and to cut the ovarian ligament. It can't work in a wet environment, including blood, so the rest of the procedure is still done with a scalpel. The skin incision is still the same size as using a scalpel and recover time is still the same. A laparoscopic procedure only requires a couple 5mm holes in the abdomen which is not much bigger than the end of a pencil. 

The abdomen still has to be shaved completely and surgically prepped even with laparoscopic for a couple reasons. It ensures a sterile surgical site and, in the event that the laparoscopic surgery has to be converted to a full open procedure due to unexpected conditions such as internal bleeding or an abnormal uterus that must be removed, the area has to be ready for this.

You can find a clinic near you that offers Lap Spays by going to www.lapspay.comand entering your zip code. Although a lap spay generally costs a couple hundred dollars more than traditional, the benefits are well worth it. 

Dr. Paul Jaffe
Jaffe Animal Clinic
www.drjaffe.com


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

Dr. Jaffe said:


> Laser surgery is not the same as laparoscopic. The laser is only used to make the skin incision and to cut the ovarian ligament. It can't work in a wet environment, including blood, so the rest of the procedure is still done with a scalpel.


This is the only statement you wrote that I don't agree with (the rest was great and I suspect timely). I have not touched a scalpel during a spay for many years. The laser works just fine for cutting through the uterus (the ovarian ligament and the broad ligament are also cut with the laser).

Oh and 99% of the spays I do with the laser don't need e-collars, either!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I went to a continuing ed meeting with a reproductive specialist who was promoting laparoscopic spays. And as the previous vets said there is technically no risk of pyometra as pyometra depends on the effects of estrogen followed by progesterone in a heat cycle.

Our neuters are all done with laser(as IowaGold said). They go home the same day and rarely with an E collar. My last girl who was spayed "traditionally" with laser at 7 1/2 years had a very uneventful recovery. In fact, for this old dog, the advent of pain medications has greatly improved recovery and healing.

What are the uterine cancer stats if the uterus is left?


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

And Tahnee, you most definitely do not want to leave an ovary... if there is any remnant of uterine tissue, you open up the possibility if pyometra.


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## Dr. Jaffe (Aug 5, 2011)

IowaGold said:


> This is the only statement you wrote that I don't agree with (the rest was great and I suspect timely). I have not touched a scalpel during a spay for many years. The laser works just fine for cutting through the uterus (the ovarian ligament and the broad ligament are also cut with the laser).
> 
> Oh and 99% of the spays I do with the laser don't need e-collars, either!


Sara,
Thanks for the additional information. My favorite parts of the lap spays is great visualization on a 21" HD television and sending home the same day with return to normal activity right away. I think if most pet owners were to ever see how a traditional spay was done, they would easily be convinced about the benefits of the lap spay. 

Dr. Jaffe


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Not to beat a dead horse... uterine cancer????


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

My Laney, working on her CDX and UD, was back jumping 10 days post OHE(traditional and no laser). She was 4 years old.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

Sally's Mom said:


> My Laney, working on her CDX and UD, was back jumping 10 days post OHE(traditional and no laser). She was 4 years old.


Ruby was 12 months and jumping 7 days after her traditional OHE (but with laser).:uhoh:


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Exactly, so what is the rush? And part of me wants everything gone when I decide it is time. (Since I breed some of my dogs and show in conformation, "time" is veriable).


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## Catharine (Nov 30, 2010)

Actually by removing the ovaries you stop the production of progesterone, and it is progesterone that causes pyo. there is no need to remove the uterus if it is healthy. ovarioectomy is frequently done in Europe.




Tahnee GR said:


> I'm not sure I see the sense of removing ovaries and leaving the uterus? Without ovaries is she still subject to pyometra, or other uterine infections/tumors?
> 
> My friends and I are actually considering the opposite-having the uterus removed but leaving an ovary so the bitch retains the usefulness of her hormones. Of course we generally don't spay until the bitches are 6 years of age or older.


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## jluke (Nov 18, 2011)

*Laparoscopic Spaying*

Thanks for your input. I'd just consulted Maisie's vet about the pros and cons of the two spaying approaches and had just decided to have her use the laparoscopic method. Your post helps confirm my decision.



Bella's Mommy said:


> Update for those who may be considerating laparoscopic spay.
> AMAZING. She was spayed laparoscopically on Thursday March 25th and had ovaries AND uterus removed. I did the preop lab which is VERY important and I also had her microchipped. She was a bit groggy that day of course from anesthesia. My vet said she could go back to all normal activity...walks, run, jump, bathe...the very next day on Friday. She I took her for a walk the next day on Friday and she did great. He did two incisions...about 1/2 inch each. The sutures are internal, therefore she does not have to go back to have stitches removed. The very next day...it is like she had nothing done...the only clue is the shaved tummy area. She is the most active golden of all my goldens so far...so I had concerns about keeping her quiet post recovery...which is why I chose this route. This has been wonderful. It cost about $200 more than traditional spay...but for me it was well worth it. Our daily walk steak is unbroken. I have taken her for a walk at least one a day since I brought her home at 3 months of age. The morning of her spay...I set the alarm for 5 a.m. so we could walk before I took her in for surgery. I totally expected not to be able to walk her the day after...but yes...much to Bella and my delight!!!!


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## Catharine (Nov 30, 2010)

*lap spays*



jluke said:


> Thanks for your input. I'd just consulted Maisie's vet about the pros and cons of the two spaying approaches and had just decided to have her use the laparoscopic method. Your post helps confirm my decision.


I don't understand why your vet would have removed her uterus? 
Totally unnecessary to do so, without the ovaries there is no progesterone. No progesterone no pyometra. I hope one day North American vets will start to do what is BEST for our dogs...not what is just 'what they learned in vet school eons ago'. 
But glad to hear that your girl did well and you are both happy!


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## Dr. Jaffe (Aug 5, 2011)

I agree. I have only been removing the ovaries (unless there is disease in the uterus) with our spays for the past 5 years. Once the medical journals started showing the benefits of ovariectomies as compared to that of ovariohysterectomies, my practice changed. 
With laparoscopic spays, we still only remove the ovaries but it is so much less invasive. I also like seeing them go home the same day and hearing from the owners the next day about how they are back to normal. 
I posted a video of a lap spay on my website just so people could see what "Minimally Invasive" really means. Watch a video of a regular spay and you will see such a huge difference.
Everyone who has had it done laparoscopically should tell their friends...that is the way to go. 

Dr. Jaffe
Jaffe Animal Clinic


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