# March/April training



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Well I guess I'll start a thread for training this month since the weather is getting better for most of the country and people are maybe getting back into field training.

This weekend is my club's trial, Bally ran his 2nd Q yesterday, didn't make it too far but as always it was good experience.
First series was a land triple in a baled field, no cover but hay bales everywhere. Middle bird was 410 yards, left bird was 200 yards, swing all the way to the right for a flyer at maybe 150. Left and middle birds retired behind their closest bales (!). Bally worked with me perfectly on the line, focus was perfect, never came off the long bird early, watched it to the ground. Picked up the flyer, took a beeline to the left hand short retired bird, which many dogs had trouble with. It was thrown tight angle back against another bale. Long bird I got him to focus on it quickly and sent, he immediately headed off too far to the right, blew past the backside of the flyer station and was gone over the hill. Eventually he came back over the hill the same way he went out (he knew not to get tangled up in the flyer station) but I called him in. He had plenty of company, they cut half the dogs in that series. 
The land blind was 350 yards through a VERY narrow slot of bales making it a whistle fest and very difficult to handle, glad I didn't have to mess with it!
Water was a double and blind up the middle, extremely contrary double -- the go bird was longer and the true path to the mark was just skirting around the edge of the water and not getting wet -- yuck. Again, glad I didn't have to mess with that -- NOT something I want my dog to navigate. If you see water, get in. Bad setup. They only brought back 7 dogs to the water series, one dog actually no-go'd the go bird -- handler turned around and said sorry, it's the setup, she knows not to run by water! 
There were 30-something starters and only 5 dogs finished the test.

On Friday I marshaled the Derby and ran my BF's Labrador as test dog. 18 month old male. He SMASHED all the series, it was very fun and very exciting! The dog did so well for me and would have been extremely competitive had he been entered. The two land series were pretty standard fare derby doubles but both water series were quite challenging big water marks and Blitz stepped on all of them.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Crap I still have 3' of snow in my front yard. But I can say I've been training in it almost every day all winter. I think I get the gold star for annoying my friends to come out and train in the crappiest of weather. But getting out the snow shoes and dragging around a sled hauling bumpers isn't that much fun. But it has been a beautiful winter, one of the prettiest in a long time. Riot has been moving along well. So last week I took him to visit a pro in Tennessee for a week. He has not seen open water since September. I felt kind of bad since he would see open water in Tennessee, then go home and not see open water again for at least another 45 days or more. But I needed to warm up! Riot got to hear thunder for the first time in his life. We don't have thunder in Anchorage, so that was good exposure for him. Whenever my dogs are exposed to new things, I feel like it will help them in the field for days that might have noises or people or stuff happening that is unexpected. During our week in TN, Riot became really solid on land blinds. Not so much on water blinds, but hey he hadn't seen water in quite a long time, so I'll give him that. I did learn some very nice water de cheating drills. Also lots of nice land drills. We ran marks and marks and marks. Lots of water marks. When the other dogs thought it was a little chilly to get in the water, Riot bailed right in. The bad news is they have ticks in TN, another new experience for Riot.

It's been interesting to see how Riot and I have come along on handling. Lucy was either hot or cold on handling. She either did or she didn't and worked very hard to completely blow me off if she wasn't interested in handling. There was no gray with her. Riot on the other hand, he works me. His approach is more manipulative than Lucy. He brings my self doubt to the surface. After he leaves the line, he likes to look over his shoulder about 50 yards out asking me if I really said back and did I mean it? So of course you give him another "back" and he keeps going. But that doubt is now a seed in your brain working against you. We'll get there, it's just going to take time. But he's only 17 months old now, so we have time I think.

Why is dog training so hard?


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Hunting season is over and it is nice weather right now. Time to take advantage of this and do some training. I will get out to the field and work Thor then go straight to his obedience class. Buffy is in heat so she is staying home today.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I had a very good day Tuesday. I am very happy with my training partners in my one training group. We worked on marks where the dog lost sight of the gunner due to undulating hills. Thor and Buffy did quite well with this. 

Then I ran Buffy on some blinds. She did these well. I ran lining drills with Thor. He is not as stubborn as his mother, no, on the contrary he is a cooperative student. I will start pushing both dogs on blinds.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

My girl needs to get back to work! About the time I started getting things figured out from the past couple of weeks. She still needs to get her table work done.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

So summer is about here where I live. Time for everyone to move up north for cooler temperatures. We are just doing the same transition work we've been doing. There are so many concepts to learn on blinds. It never stops just when I think we have learned something here comes a new concept to understand and learn. It seems to me that it is impossible to learn them all and when it comes down to it, you never know what the judge will throw at you so just hope and pray your dog will do the right thing and for me that I recognize the challenge of the blind! Im very nervous about this. Running lots of marks with retired guns and getting Proof solid on that. Proof is catching on to a lot of the concepts and has a few that we need to work on more. Its interesting to see the strengths and weaknesses of each dog. And my daily motto is "oh well, we'll get it one of these days..." ha ha ha ha


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Abeille said:


> My girl needs to get back to work! About the time I started getting things figured out from the past couple of weeks. She still needs to get her table work done.


What things are you working on?


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

It is rainy right now but I am hoping it will clear. When it does we will be headed out to the field to work on casting drills and blinds. If it doesn't look nice enough we will train close by in the city parks.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Alaska is melting, but still below freezing every night. The ground is still frozen, but very muddy on top during the day. We have a super dry spring every year, which means the mud will turn to dust and start blowing and being annoying. We call this time of year "break up". There is still a lot of ice flow on the ocean in town. But I've heard the beluga whales are back, so that means the hooligan (tiny fish) have started running up the rivers from the ocean. 

This weekend we will be struggling to find a place to train. The muck is hard to deal with, knee boots or hip waders are necessary. The dogs don't care a lot, but the water is very cold that they are running through, which promotes cheating. I was using snow covered parking lots for drills, but they are thawed and running dogs on gravel covered asphalt parking lots isn't good for their feet. Since the EPA doesn't allow us to use salt on our roads or parking lots, everything is covered with gravel and sand. The street sweepers haven't been out yet with it still being winter. 

Sigh, Alaska in the spring is a pretty tough place to be. I'll be happy once everything is thawed. A bit of rain would help. 

First hunt test of the season is a NAHRA hunt test 4 weeks away!


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

ugh, I just can't believe it is so cold there, Stacey. It is in the 90s here. It seems very hot this year but we will see. I can't complain, though, we only couldn't do water 2 days the whole winter. It was in the 50's the majority of the season. 
Im in the middle of my second apprenticing assignment. Both have been for the amateur and luckily on my home grounds. Ive really learned a lot about handling my own dog watching others run their dogs. Its also interesting to see how they maneuver out of very sticky situations. What is even more interesting is comparing the judging styles from the previous judges to my current judges. Today, after the trial is finished, I will go back and run proof on the blinds and stuff with my friend. I did this last time, as well.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

MOP,
good for your for apprenticing for field trials! We need more judges, especially judges that have actually run field trials, not just judges that have only paid a pro to run their dogs. We have the same problem over on hunt test side of things. 

I took the spaniel hunt test judges seminar. They require all judges do a seminar every 5 years. Then the written test is taken as a group during the seminar. We work our way through the questions one by one answering them as a group. The spaniel hunt test questions are written far better than the retriever hunt test exam questions are. The spaniel test actually makes sense. The spaniel judges are required to apprentice twice. My local club asks that you apprentice all 3 levels in one day. Which is possible with the way that spaniel hunt tests are run. So this summer, my club asked if I would be interested in apprenticing! I said yes, so this summer I'll become a spaniel hunt test judge.

Mosquitoes and snow in the yard right now. Yuck. The ground is soggy and thawing, but frozen down deep still. We still can't dig for foundations for our construction company yet, but soon, maybe 2-3 more weeks and we can start digging.

Yesterday I dusted off Lucy and ran her in the same set up as Riot. She hasn't run anything since last summer or trained at all. She did pretty well, which was nice. She's not as fast as Riot of course, but she is still an excellent marker. She did very well on her blinds too, which was a surprise considering how she's done nothing all winter but goof off. I need to get her tuned up for the spaniel hunt tests this summer. I should start training her to sit on the flush. It would be great if she could run master, she does all the other spaniel stuff wonderfully.

Riot is coming along ok. We're backing up a bit. I need to make sure he's solid on his whistles. He's starting to think he's smarter than me and slipping the occasional whistle. Then when he does sit, he's looking over his shoulder for the bumper. Little rascal. So whistle sit drills it is for the next few weeks. I need to be able to count on him sitting promptly and not looking around for that darn bumper. His marking is so much better lately. We've switched to only orange bumpers and he's really coming on strong. His drive is super nice. His line manners continue to clean up. Now if he could just find a handler that knew what the heck she was doing, then he could go a long way. In the meantime, we're both learning.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Hi Stacey, two things:

The "looking around for the bumper" when you sit him to cast is NOT "looking around for the bumper." It is "Mom doesn't know what she's doing and I can't bear to even pay attention to her." It's a power play move on the dog. Have seen this time and time again, do not be fooled. So long as the dog has a good foundation in basis a tweet-nick every time they do this clears it up quickly. I don't know if Riot is running cold blinds when he does this, or some sort of pile work. Either way it warrants a correction and is the dog blowing you off.

Two, what is this throwing orange bumpers? Why not just fake it and throw nothing at all? Is this a Bill hillman thing? I don't get it. They can't mark what they can't see. Maybe they see the motion and not the color contrast but I never have understood the value in throwing orange bumpers.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

K9-Design said:


> Hi Stacey, two things:
> 
> The "looking around for the bumper" when you sit him to cast is NOT "looking around for the bumper." It is "Mom doesn't know what she's doing and I can't bear to even pay attention to her." It's a power play move on the dog. Have seen this time and time again, do not be fooled. So long as the dog has a good foundation in basis a tweet-nick every time they do this clears it up quickly. I don't know if Riot is running cold blinds when he does this, or some sort of pile work. Either way it warrants a correction and is the dog blowing you off.
> 
> Two, what is this throwing orange bumpers? Why not just fake it and throw nothing at all? Is this a Bill hillman thing? I don't get it. They can't mark what they can't see. Maybe they see the motion and not the color contrast but I never have understood the value in throwing orange bumpers.


1. Total power play! He thinks he's knows better than me. DH says Riot has little respect for me and I need to push his buttons more. Riot only does it on cold blinds. And yes it's a sit whistle with a nick, then another sit whistle to clean it up. He doesn't do it on pile work, just cold blinds. Smart litter buggars aren't they?

2. I went to orange bumpers after visiting TN. All winter Riot's had dokkens and black/white flagman bumpers on the snow. We got to TN and he couldn't find the darn orange bumpers in the grass or on the water. After a few days, he finally could find any color easily. White bumpers are like beacons saying, "here I am". I've continued on with orange bumpers since returning and he's doing really well. I'm looking for him to mark. That's what I felt was lacking when I went to TN, he was not marking as well. I feel like the orange bumpers cleaned up his marking a lot! But he also had not seen grass or water since September. So it was situational too. Marking on snow and water is completely different on snow. I bet I could throw some marks on snow that my dogs could easily pick up, but dogs from the states would have a huge problem on.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

stacey is the theory behind it that because they are so hard to see it trains the dog to focus harder?


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

MillionsofPeaches said:


> stacey is the theory behind it that because they are so hard to see it trains the dog to focus harder?


Good question, I don't know. But it did work gradually over the course of the week I was there. Let's face it white on a green background versus any other color, is like a beacon. So I would think if you wanted to work on marking, orange would be the way to go. Then you are sure your dog is marking, not just going to the area of the fall and hoping to hunt it up. I definitely had a lot less hunting it up after the course of a week. Now was it just experience gained by training all day for a week solid, or was it the orange bumpers? Heck I don't know. It sounds like a good idea so I'll stick with it for now.

What color do you use for cold blinds?


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

MillionsofPeaches said:


> stacey is the theory behind it that because they are so hard to see it trains the dog to focus harder?


I'm not Stacey, but I slept in a Holiday Inn last night (well, not really).

I don't know how Ms Alaska will answer this question, but I'll give it a shot.
I occasionally use orange bumpers for marks, especially when there's no, or very little, cover, otherwise there's a glowing white object that the dogs can focus on and run straight to without even having to try...even a GoldenDoodle could do that. 
Also, dogs don't learn how to put up a hunt in the AOF if there's always a white object that draws their attention. 
Plus, sometimes your mutt will be asked to pick up a bird that it didn't see in the air, for whatever reason, so they have to recognize the arm movement and the direction of the throw even if the thrown object is unseen or impossible to see (could be due to lighting conditions or the dog just didn't turn to the mark in time).
That said, some (maybe most) dogs seem to see an orange bumper as a mark, regardless of lighting conditions, and do as well with orange as they do with white...what the heck, try it and see what happens...you won't ruin your dog by doing it. [I know a successful field trialer who throws orange bumpers for marks most of the time.]

Question: Do you always put white on your gunners? 

FTGoldens


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Alaska7133 said:


> What color do you use for cold blinds?


For me, whatever color I have handy.
FTGoldens


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

On the other hand a local pro here throws only dokkens. Some have white streamers tied to them. His dogs mostly run master and Qs. So he's not playing in the upper stakes, but dokkens work for the dogs on his truck. One woman I trained with this winter uses red head dokkens (white body with red head). I thought that was interesting. Up here in the winter lots of people use black/white canvas bumpers with streamers in the snow. Sometimes the sky is white and the snow is white, and we're trying to get some contrast for the dogs to see what we are throwing. Then sometimes the bumpers are falling into the snow and cannot be seen at all and the dogs are looking for hole in the snow to find the bumper. Kind of weird factor given they would never see that at a test/trial.

What is the theory on what we are throwing? Color, size, shape, texture, material? The gun dog suppliers sell just about everything under the sun. Is it that our dogs need variety of things thrown and that's the most important thing? Surprise the dog with something new? I have no idea, I'm still trying to figure it out.

So everyone, what do you throw for your dogs?


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

I own "0" dokkens ... too pricey for me, not to mention unnecessary, at least for my dogs.
If I'm not using ducks, it's knobby bumpers of some color.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Proof always has ducks thrown for him when we are day training with the pro which is 80% of Proof's training. When its just me I am usually throwing a set up similar to one Proof struggled with in day training. IN this case, I might use white bumpers to make the end point very visible to Proof so he can get through the problem without the worry of remembering where the bird exactly is. If I'm just training with friends we usually use ducks as well. All our blinds are orange or white bumpers depending on the end of the blind no what unless someone surprises the dogs or its some kind of unique reward. If the mark is against a tree line and its really really far out there with a lot of concept then its a big white bumper with a planted bird. Never used an orange bumper but I think I might have once with another friend of mine come to think of it. I don't really care what I use for the most part but those are the usual training diet. 

As far as the gunners always using white. yeah for the most part that is the case. Before I did this and I thought I was training Proof for hunt I had the gunner always hidden behind trees, ha ha, or wingers.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

FTGoldens said:


> I own "0" dokkens ... too pricey for me, not to mention unnecessary, at least for my dogs.
> If I'm not using ducks, it's knobby bumpers of some color.


So do you all think that there's any point to throwing something like an orange bumper?

MOP, it would be nice to have ducks to throw and sometimes in the winter I thaw a few and throw them. But for the most part I don't throw ducks. I have a lot in my freezer, but I usually reserve them for "special" times.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

I will occasionally have a gunner take off the white coat so the mutts have to look really hard to find the gunner ... you never know when you will be running a trial and the shadows encroach and cover up the gunners. This happens with a degree of regularity because when the judges are setting up the day before the trial begins, the sun is, basically, in one position and they don't take into consideration how the shadows will move throughout the day.
I try to prepare my dogs for everything that may come up, or at least expose them to it ... I don't like it when the first time they see something in their life is when they are on the mat with a couple of judges standing behind them.
FTGoldens


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Interesting day today. Traveled 84 miles to train at Stewart Forest to train in the rain. I started with walking singles with terrain features for Thor and Buffy. These included running along a steep hillside parallel to a ridge. Both dogs did well.

Next---blinds. I ran Buffy on three blinds and established a pattern and then reran one of them while introducing some suction. Actually a lot of suction. Guess what happens to a pheasant hunting dog when you run her past some excellent pheasant cover on the way to her blind. Excellent learning opportunity to do some explaining to Buffy. 

Then I ran Thor on the same blind but reduced suction. He did quite well.

I also sneaked in some scouting for turkey.


Overall a good day.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Good thinking with the gunners. I do know that a lot of guns were placed in the shade in the derbies and they were very hard to point out to the dogs. Yeah Stacey, I have a freezer full of ducks but I don't use them that often because I don't need to anymore. I will this summer when Proof goes away as I plan to get a new pup and I can use them on her a bit. 

Ran four set ups yesterday with the beautiful temperatures we had. Second series triple had both guns retired and Proof NAILED both those birds so that was neat to see. First series had the gunner throw a mom and pop and proof nailed both those too and had no problem going "behind" the gun to get the easy bird. Had a super long land blind that pretty much covered one end to the other end of the field to end the day. Today all water. Yay!


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