# Problems related to old age



## GoldieMad

Sorry to say that my ageing male golden retriever (Ben) is showing more signs of senility. He's very nearly 14 and is, generally speaking, pretty healthy (if you discount the cataracts, failing hearing and arthritis). Besides that he appears to be happy, eats well and is generally calm and friendly - he's a lovely dog. He also has quite a turn of speed on him when he puts his mind to it!  He is on medications for his arthritis (vet prescribed along with a 'natural' joint supplement) - these help him a lot and signs of stiffness are, as a result, kept to a tolerable minimum.

For a few months now he has occasionally pawed at the carpet, doors, barked at nothing, ended up staring into corners for no reason (and barking), etc - basically the signs of senility that I've read about elsewhere (incidentally, I'm using the word 'senile' as a general term for behaviour changes due to old age - apparently dogs don't really go 'senile' in the same way that humans do - the biological mechanisms are different). He sometimes also just sits and pants and stares at you yet seems excited and happy. He has seen the vet about all this, but to no avail (well, they can't cure it in people so I guess I shouldn't really expect a cure for dogs). I should point out that whenever he does any of the above he doesn't appear distressed - if you approach him he'll wag his tail, insist on having his back rubbed and generally appear extremely happy. He also has a bit of a mischievous twinkle in his eye!

He is on Cholodin, a 'natural' product that I saw recommended here for ageing dogs - it apparently helps the brain functions a bit so the dog has less 'senile moments'. I'm not sure if it's working that well though!

Ben's latest 'trick' (which he has been doing with increasing regularity for the past week or so) is to wake up my wife and myself during the night by pawing at the bedroom door at some random hour - curiously enough he also paws at this door very occasionally during the day, even though we're not in there! There is another door opposite the bedroom which he will also sometimes paw at during the night.

Once let into the bedroom he will generally settle down, although he will still occasionally fidget and/or paw at the carpet. Overall this is causing my wife and myself to have many bad nights - we'll soon go mad from sleep deprivation!

We have thought of putting him into another room in the house overnight, but he's so used to being near us at night (the hall where he sleeps is just outside the bedroom) that we wonder if putting him in another room will distress him (he's a fairly 'sensitive' dog). He would also then be out of earshot and we like to know that we can hear him if he has any kind of a problem. 

We have two other dogs - both male, one is nine months old, the other coming up to two years old. The two year old sleeps in the hall with Ben, the youngster sleeps in the kitchen (if I also let him into the hall overnight then he'd end up playing with the two year old all night - not a good idea!).

Any thoughts please re Ben's 'senility'? Any ideas how my wife and myself can get a decent night's sleep?  

Thanks


----------



## sasha's mum

*showing more signs of senility. He's very nearly 14 and is, generally speaking, pretty healthy (if you discount the cataracts, failing hearing and arthritis). Besides that he appears to be happy, eats well and is generally calm and friendly - he's a lovely dog. He also has quite a turn of speed on him when he puts his mind to it! 

For a few months now he has barked at nothing, ended up staring into corners for no reason (and barking), etc - He sometimes also just sits and pants and stares at you yet seems excited and happy.* 

my goodness we could be talking about saxon here , so if anyone has any ideas would be good to hear them


----------



## hotel4dogs

have the pressure in his eyes checked, and have his ears scoped. Sometimes when older dogs do that, they're in pain, especially eye pain!


----------



## GoldieMad

Ben's eyes were checked a few months ago - the only apparent problem is the cataracts. He certainly doesn't seem to have an type of eye discomfort, ie he's not constantly blinking, rubbing his head on the floor, pawing at them, etc. They're not red either.

His ears are pretty waxy and I have some special cleaning solution to try and get the most obvious muck out (the vet has shown me how to do this without 'digging deep' and causing ear-drum damage).


----------



## Ljilly28

Tippykayak and I lived with my golden Joplin the year he was 14 turning 15, when he started to do strange puppyish things he never had before. He ate a sock, rocks, and Brian has a memory that he ate a candy bar from a "candy bouquet" someone had sent us- things the vet said were the doggie version of senility. It was stressful taking him out at night, because he couldnt hear and got his "pause button" stuck at an interesting smell and just would stay sniffing the same spot for 15 -20 minutes. If I moved on with the other dogs, I wouldnt know where he was and couldnt call him any longer. For the first time in his life , he had to be on a leash when visibility was poor for his own safety. What if he got lost? Tippykayak reminded me, bc I had forgotten, that when he was finally too elderly to go on walks with the other dogs, I used to pack him in the car and drive him around the neighborhood, and he would_ think_ he'd been on a walk. He did the same thing of pawing in the middle of the night. I had such a high pressure schedule(partially self-imposed) of getting up at 3:45 am to grade English papers/prepare for class, that I remember that feeling of going insane from sleep deprivation, but yet not having the heart to shut an old dog out of a room he'd slept in all his life. It was a really difficult period offset by waves of love and appreciation for a best friend with such a long and happy life.


----------



## GoldieMad

Puppy-ish - yes, a good description of Ben's behaviour as, besides the pawing and barking at nothing, in many other ways he does appear to be reverting to puppy-hood (as with people I guess, ie as people get older many become more child-like in behaviour).

Did you do anything about Tippykayak's night-time pawing, or didn't it disturb your sleep?


----------



## goldensmum

No real advice i'm afraid, but in the last few months that Ginny was with us she would start panting for no apparent reason, and as like you, we and our vet could find no reason.

I don't think that putting him in another room would help - in fact it may distress him even more.

Some nights were a nightmare. Both Ginny and Holly slept in our bedroom, and very often Ginny once she got upstairs would not settle and keep going to the door - i would take he downstairs, she would have a wander around the garden and then back upstairs and she would settle and go to sleep. This sometimes happened as well during the night, and although we grumbled about it, we learnt to live with it. We don't know why she did it, because she never wanted to go to the toilet. She would also come and nudge my arm, and once she had her head stroked she would settle again - it was if it she needed the reassurance that we were still there.

Sorry can't be any help.


----------



## GoldieMad

Sorry to hear about Ginny.

Ben has had his intermittent panting routine for a few years now - he seems to do it when he's excited about something, but we're not always sure what that is.


----------



## Chelsea's Mom

*I know how you feel*

I went throught the same type of wierd behaviour the last few months of Sandys life. She was so weak and had lost most of the control of her back legs she would bark when she couldn't get up. So I would help her up, carry her down the stairs and it was so hard on us. 

There is a common theme in this thread. We have all mentioned what happened shortly before we lost our faithful friend. I think it is safe to say that you too are coming to the end of your journey together. So, rub and love on Ben as much as you can.


----------



## GoldieMad

I've kind of been thinking the same thing, but given the fact that he still eats well, moves pretty well, seems pretty strong, seems happy, etc - well, I'm not so certain. Time will tell I guess - I was just curious if I could help him in any way to settle at night, which would possibly help him and also allow my wife and I to get a bit more sleep.


----------



## Ljilly28

Dog-drops said:


> Puppy-ish - yes, a good description of Ben's behaviour as, besides the pawing and barking at nothing, in many other ways he does appear to be reverting to puppy-hood (as with people I guess, ie as people get older many become more child-like in behaviour).
> 
> Did you do anything about Tippykayak's night-time pawing, or didn't it disturb your sleep?


Lol, Tippykayak is a forum member, and Joplin was the dog.

I didnt know what to do about the pawing, and a couple nights I really despaired bc I was so tired. It's tough, bc a puppy can be crated, but an old dog's dignity is important to preserve. It was just hard, but in a way it helped prepare me to say goodbye, seeing the changes in cognition. The "Sundowner" syndrome is a classic hallmark sign. Knowing that from my vet helped me emotionally, for sure. You might have to bear with Ben through this time. They must be disoriented about night and day, and have some inner premonition that agitates them.I was worried the pawing might mean Joplin was in some kind of pain. but the vet checked him from head to toe, then told me that sundown syndrome is common in elderly horse, cats, and even humans when their bodies begin to outlive their brain connections(???). Your posts take me back in time, and I miss my Joplin but also remember the difficulties. What about giving him a tiny bit of a gentle sedative from your vet at bedtime now and then when you have to get some solid sleep?


----------



## GoldieMad

Thanks for the words of advice - I think I may take Ben to see the vet and get some advice on medication, etc - even a gentle sedative if the vet thinks it's a good idea.

Sorry for the mix-up re the name of your dog.


----------



## Ljilly28

How about starting him off in the bedroom on a comfy dog-bed and tethering him loosely with a leash near you so he knows right where you are? Maybe he has to go out bc his bladder control is diminishing? Those were things I tried with Joplin. The digginat at the carpet. . . it's so similar it amazes me.


----------



## GoldieMad

Thanks, will try that. He definitely doesn't need to relieve himself as even when let outside he doesn't 'do' anything.


----------



## Finn's Fan

I used Cholodin with my old boy Cody, and it did the trick for his canine cognitive dysfunction. My vet had advised Benedryl for its sedative effects, and that worked, too, before I got him on Cholodin. Perhaps a couple of Benedryl will ease Ben's night time activities (I still have a ruined spot in my carpet from the digging and pawing, but who cares...I miss that dog daily) and give you some sleep. Give the old fella a smooch for me, would you please? I'm a sucker for the seniors.


----------



## GoldieMad

Thanks for the advice, consider him smooched!


----------



## gold'nchocolate

You could give Melatonin a try. I use this for Jack because it helps with his anxieties--he gets 6 mg twice a day. It is also a natural sleep aide.

Hershey is 14-1/2 yrs old and is experiencing some of the things that you mentioned. Luckily, her 'wandering time' is earlier in the evening and she gets it out of her system by the time I go to bed but she still gets up 2 times a night to go out to pee. She is nearing the end of her life so I am not overly concerned about it right now. 

She has had 3 episodes, lasting approx 12 hours each time, of losing control of her hind end and basically collapsing to the floor, losing control of her bladder and bowels at the same time. I will put her on her bed, drag her bed into the living room where I can watch her and give her occasional drinks of water. She spends most of the 12 hrs just staring straight ahead or sleeping. Then as suddenly as it began, she gets up and starts walking around. I don't know what is happening but assume it's some sort of seizure.


----------



## GoldieMad

Thanks for the advice. Sorry to hear about Hershey, it sounds most distressing for both of you when she has her possible seizures.


----------



## gold'nchocolate

Here are some symptoms of *Cognitive Dysfunction Syndrome:*

Disorientation
--wanders aimlessly
--appears lost or confused in house or yard
--gets "stuck" in corners or under/behind furniture
--stares into space or at walls
--has difficulty finding the door; stands at hinge side of door
--does not recognize familiar people
--does not respond to verbal cues or name
--appears to forget reason for going outdoors

Interaction with family members
--seeks attention less often
--less likely to stand for petting; walks away while being petted
--less enthusiasm upon greeting
--no longer greets family members

Activity and sleep
--sleeps more during the day
--sleeps less during the night
--decrease in purposeful activity
--increase in wandering or pacing
--barks at night for no reason

Housetraining

--Urinates indoors
--has accidents indoors soon after being outside
--does not ask to go outside 

___________________________________________________

I picked up a pamphlet about this at my vets office and I just found it so I'm posting the symptoms in case you may recognize some of these. The medicine used for this is called Anipryl. Here are a couple of links with more info:
http://www.cdsindogs.com/CDSInDogs.aspx?drug=CC&country=US&species=OO&sec=100
http://www.cpvh.com/Articles/4.html


----------



## coppers-mom

I don't have any real good advice to help with Ben's behavior, but maybe you could wear earplugs?
I hope you you find something to help. Have you asked your vet about a mild tranquilizer for night time? Maybe something for Ben too?


----------



## GoldieMad

He's actually been a bit better for the past few nights - still has a little 'session' but he's sleeping a bit better.


----------



## Finn's Fan

That's great that you and your old friend are getting more sleep, which always makes it easier to cope. Kindly give the old man another smooch from me, please, as I no longer have this face to smooch.


----------



## jealous1

My JC (sheltie) is almost 14-1/2 and for the past several months has to get up at least once during the night (usually between 1:30-2:30 a.m.), sometimes twice as he has been diagnosed with chronic renal failure. I am a pretty light sleeper but if I don't hear him start to wander (he sleeps in the same room either on a dog bed on the floor or in our bed), he barks to let me know he has to go out. He always needs to take care of business, but then likes to wander around some and I have to get his attention by clapping really loud to get him to come back in. I mention this because I know what you mean by sleep deprivation. Sometimes I wish for a full night's sleep, but then I get to thinking about the alternative. A dog bed in your room and a couple of benedryl or other sleep aid from your vet sounds like pretty good advice.


----------



## Goldenz2

Angelo used to have problems sleeping (among other things) and once we started giving him Melatonin at night, it was a life saver for all of us. You have to really time it right for it to work. For us it was around 9PM. We started initally with one tablet and had to increase to 2. But it really made a BIG difference.

Good Luck to you,

Jeanne in NJ


----------



## GoldieMad

Thanks - how was Angelo the next day, was he sleepy at all?

Any side effects?


----------



## MurphyTeller

Dog-drops said:


> Thanks - how was Angelo the next day, was he sleepy at all?
> 
> Any side effects?


You could try tethering him to you at night - just clip a leash to his collar and keep him close to you - this might help a lot. 

You might also ask your vet about giving him a benedryl - makes them just a little bit sleepy (sleepier). You could also think about rescue remedy too...

Also remember to cherish the time you have - many of us would give our eye teeth to have our guys at 14+

Erica


----------



## GoldieMad

Thanks again for the sound advice.

Spoke to my vet earlier and she mentioned Diazepam, any thoughts on that?


----------



## MurphyTeller

Dog-drops said:


> Thanks again for the sound advice.
> 
> Spoke to my vet earlier and she mentioned Diazepam, any thoughts on that?


Diazepam could help - but he might be really out of it the rest of the day. If it were my dog and I was worried about the behavior - I'd try something smaller first - probably the rescue remedy, then the benedryl and then go to the valium if I had to...But - that's just my opinion - I am not a vet 
Erica


----------



## GoldieMad

I too am concerned that Diazepam could make him groggy the next day. I'll have another chat with the vet and suggest some of the other things mentioned here.

I realise that it's difficult asking these kind of questions here, after all I am familiar with Ben and his current condition, plus the vet of course is knows his medical state.


----------



## NuttinButGoldens

A very big guess here...

I wonder if the eye condition isn't causing him to see 'spots' or some thing else that really isn't there.

Think of how a dog or cat reacts to a laser light pointed on the ground and moved around. They go nuts!

Maybe he is seeing something similar due to his eye condition?


----------



## NuttinButGoldens

I have to say, as hard as it is to accept that your friends are now showing signs of their aging, it is actually kind of nice to _read _about a Golden aging to the point of 14 or 15 years old. It usually doesn't work out this way...


----------



## GoldieMad

That's certainly a possibility and may explain a few of his problems. So hard to tell though.

How I wish he could talk - where's Dr Doolittle when you need him?


----------



## Ardeagold

We have a 13 year old girl, Sasha, and in the past we had a Yellow Lab live to be 17...Carrie.

Carrie, during the last six months of her life, definitely showed the symptoms you're describing. But then again, she was always one to stare at a blank wall for an hour or so. Even when she was young. LOL What we noticed most, however, was restlessness all night long.

Sasha is just beginning to sleep the day away and become more lively in the evening. Fortunately, after dinner and a walk, and then just wanting to be petted and loved for a solid 5 hours, she will settle down. From dinner time until about 11pm, she's "busy" being sociable with us.

One thing that's helped Sasha is to feed her a small meal (1/4 - 1/2 cup of kibble) at around 11pm. 

She got to the point that she didn't want to get up to eat breakfast, (although around noon she will get up to go potty and then will eat about 1/2 cup of food and then come back in and go back to sleep.) 

She wakes up about 4:30ish, eats a solid dinner, goes out for some walkies and playtime (and potty time). Then she has her "interactive" hours. At about 10pm she gets 1.5 treats (after she comes in from her last potty time) and then she immediately gets her small meal. Of course then she needs a couple of ice cubes to munch on. Once that's all done, if we don't pet her or interact with her....she'll lie down and go to sleep for the night.


----------



## GoldieMad

Interesting re the small meal - if I ate at that time (even something small) I'd end up with indigestion but, well, I guess I'm not a dog. 

Good to hear that you've found a way to make Sasha's life easier - my wife and I are doing our best with Ben. It's all so sad though knowing that this is probably the beginning of the end .........


----------

