# Please Help My Breaking Heart



## leftlane (Jul 24, 2009)

Hi everyone - 

This is my first post here, and I need some very wise counsel on what I should do. Here is our situation (with a little background that colors my thoughts):

We had a wonderful male Golden (Champ) that contracted leptospirosis that destroyed his kidney function and essentially killed him in 3 days - this happened summer of 2007. My family (and probably me the most) was devastated, as he was only 4 years old and was absolutely perfect. Definitely a heart breaker for all of us.

We waited about 6 months until my daughters were ready and adopted a female pup (Roxy) from a good breeder, and she has been fantastic - sweet, mellow, all the great qualities you expect from a Golden. Couldn't be happier - she is 1 1/2 today and is loved to death.

Now the problem - 3 months ago we were asked to "rescue" a 10 month old male Golden that was a littermate to a family friends' pair. The young family who originally adopted him was divorcing, moving back in with parents, 2 young kids, etc, and the dog was about to be turned in to a shelter. We met the dog, introduced our dog to him (on his turf), and had a very good experience/feeling, so we went ahead and took him home. The dogs get along great, and they really are quite fond of eachother so far. However.......

The new dog (Jax) is more dominant and has lunged at several young (under 5) neighborhood kids while on his leash and halti - once when a child approached quickly, another time when the kid wasn't even looking at him and was fairly far away. The last time I was walking both dogs some kids were out, and since all the kids around know and love Roxy, some of them wanted to come over to see them. Knowing that Jax was showing aggressive tendencies towards littler kids, I asked them to back up and wait for me to get him into a sitting position with me right at his side, with my hand around the back of his collar just in case. Well, with no warning that I saw, and with no provocation, he lunged at a 5 year old girl about 3 feet away and went right for her face. He hit her right below the eye, and she of course freaked out and was screaming and crying. Thank God I had a grip on his collar and immediately pulled him down, or else it could have been so much worse. As it is, no broken skin or actual bite, but a swollen cheek under her eye. I was literally shaking and took him straight home after making sure she was okay. 

I talked to our trainer, our vet, and the Golden Retriever Rescue organization here - the vet and the rescue group have advised me that this dog most likely needs to be put down. 99% of the time he is wonderful - very gentle with my kids, who are a bit bigger, and incredible with me - very loyal, very smart, and generally awesome, except for this major flaw. But I don't see how I can get to a point of trusting him when I'm being told by the experts that this is most likely a genetic flaw from poor breeding that can't be "trained out", and I will never forgive myself if I allow something more serious to happen to a child.

Very long post to get to my question, but I've basically been crying and stressing for a week trying to determine what to do. It's not feasible to sequester this dog from the rest of the world, as we live in a neighborhood literally infested with kids. What do I do? The mere thought of having him put down makes me nauseous. Finding another home probably isn't advised either, as I don't want someone else to have to deal with this issue just to get me off the hook.

Please let me know your thoughts - I value your opinions and I am running out of time to do whatever needs to be done.

Thanks in advance,

Todd


----------



## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I am so sorry you are going thru this. You said you spoke to your vet, rescue and trainer. What did the trainer say? Has the vet ruled out any medical issues that might be causing this? There may be some other organizations that may take him but I dont know their names. Maybe someone else will be able to tell you the name of them. I have seen dogtown on National Geographic takes unadoptable dogs sometimes. Here is their website http://www.bestfriends.org/atthesanctuary/animals/dogs.cfm

I know it is hard because of the love you have for him and the liability issues. Sometimes the hardest things are the kindest. And you would have so much guilt if something happened to a child. My heart goes out to you.


----------



## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

Welcome to the forum. Without having seen the lunging you describe it is difficult to offer an opinion. I hope your vet and trainer are very wrong since my boys have lunged and many childrens faces to try to get some kisses in. Several of those kids tumbled to the ground in process. Thankfully they were not injured and were laughing hysterically. 

If you are seriously concerned that your golden is aggressive you should call in a one on one dog trainer to observe and help you make the right decision.


----------



## Kohanagold (Nov 5, 2008)

Wow... I dont know what to say. I certainly respect the euthanasia option for "aggressive dogs", but I really feel for the situation you're in. 

I would start with having him in a crate and having a young child come up and sit beside the crate, but not acknowlege him and certainly not stick fingers in. I would watch and see if he acts as though he's going to tear into the child or is he okay if the child is sitting calmly beside him. Is it *really* an aggressive lunge, or is it something more innoscent. The dog cant hurt the child if its crated (provided there are no fingers entering the crate). I'd also videotape it, so you can show a trainer what happens. 

I really feel for your position! I'm not sure how I would react, but unfortunately, one way or the other, something needs to be done. BJ


----------



## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

How about letting a rescue rehome him to empty nesters with no children, giving them full disclosure and letting them assess?


----------



## Doodle (Apr 6, 2009)

I agree with what others have said in that you really need to have a good, experienced trainer see this behavior in action so they can assess and advise you. My husband and I don't have children, and there aren't really any small children in our neighborhood, so both of our dogs did their share of lunging at little kids at first. But it was not aggression. It was curiosity at something new (because they had not been exposed to little kids...maybe this dog wasn't previously???), and wanting to get right in their faces for kisses and play (your know the "golden" rule...if you're down at my level, all bets are off and it's playtime!). They both freaked the kids out at first, but as they met more kids and got used to them, the lunging , in-your-face behavior diminished. But you certainly don't want anyone to get hurt, so I think an assessment by a good trainer to determine whether or not it's real aggression is in order.


----------



## esSJay (Apr 13, 2009)

First of all, welcome to GRF! You've made a great decision to come here as there are many people with great advice and resources here!

I commend you for not wanting to 'give up' on this dog or let someone else deal with the problem, as his previous owners did. I think there are some great suggestions in posts above mine, for example using the crate as a barrier between the dog and a child to assess his attitude towards them, and more importantly, enlist the help of a one on one behaviour specialist. 

As a short term measure, have you looked into muzzling him for when you're out walking? I know it won't stop him from lunging at children but it would definitely help prevent a bite and give you a bit more peace of mind for the meantime.


----------



## leftlane (Jul 24, 2009)

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts so far. I am working closely with our vet and trainer, and in turn with a behavioral specialist, to at least do everything I can to make this work. Many of the suggestions above are good and I will try them all. I am a determined SOB, and I'm praying that the right course of action will correct these behaviors. It's so hard to reconcile because he is stellar with me and my family.

We're off to the vet now for another once over and to discuss possible medical causes. Roxy doesn't much care to be left behind while Jax gets to go on a car ride, I can tell you that.


----------



## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

Welcome to the forum! Sorry about this bump in the road. Did you adopt Jax from a family or a breeder? Perhaps he has never been socialized with children and needs a bit of that. The muzzle is a great idea until you get the problem figured out.

It just seems to me that if he made contact enough to make a bruise, his mouth was closed and he did not intend to bite, because if he did intend to, he would have. If he gets along great with your family, I would steer clear of children (tell them) until he gets older. Is he altered? I would seriously consider it. Good luck and keep us posted.


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Aggression is never a fun thing to have to deal with.

Of course it's harder to say w/o seeing the dog, but a well thought out classical conditioning/desensitization progam might be just the ticket to change how he feels about small, kid-like people. If it were me, I'd want to enlist the help of a qualified trainer who was well-versed in humane, reward-based methods. Get a full eval on the dog and let the trainer paint you a realistic picture of the what the behavior mod and life management program will look like. Then decide if she's the right dog for your family or not.


----------



## wagondog (Aug 24, 2007)

I commend you for coming to seek out help and not just taking the opinion of a vet and trainer. Personally I have a concern with anyone telling me the chances are 99% that the dog needs to be put down. did they witness the aggression? I for one would give the dog the benefit of the doubt here *but never at the cost of a bite* and that will take dilligence from you. If the kids rush up to see your friendly Golden, walk them seperately and instruct the kids that the two dogs have different personalities. The muzzle allows you to control the situation. If you can enlist the help of a friend or family member that trusts you and understands the love of a dog possibly there is a little older child that you can test the dog with (please don't hang me out to dry) *but never at the risk of injury.* A savvy dog owner should be able to read their dog by eye fixation, rigidity, and body language. You sholud be able to assess the dog by observing him around a child (muzzled of course). I just don't like the 99% statement, and I have known too many vets and trainers that I would never take their assessment with a grain of salt. However, if you enlist a behaviorist with credibility and together you reach the same conclusion....it is what it is!
Wagondog


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

wagondog said:


> I commend you for coming to seek out help and not just taking the opinion of a vet and trainer. Personally I have a concern with anyone telling me the chances are 99% that the dog needs to be put down. did they witness the aggression? I for one would give the dog the benefit of the doubt here *but never at the cost of a bite* and that will take dilligence from you. If the kids rush up to see your friendly Golden, walk them seperately and instruct the kids that the two dogs have different personalities. The muzzle allows you to control the situation. If you can enlist the help of a friend or family member that trusts you and understands the love of a dog possibly there is a little older child that you can test the dog with (please don't hang me out to dry) *but never at the risk of injury.* A savvy dog owner should be able to read their dog by eye fixation, rigidity, and body language. You sholud be able to assess the dog by observing him around a child (muzzled of course). I just don't like the 99% statement, and I have known too many vets and trainers that I would never take their assessment with a grain of salt. However, if you enlist a behaviorist with credibility and together you reach the same conclusion....it is what it is!
> Wagondog



I don't think the 99% was connected the possibility of euthanasia. It actually goes with the next statement in the post:

_"99% of the time he is wonderful - very gentle with my kids, who are a bit bigger, and incredible with me - very loyal, very smart, and generally awesome,..."_


----------



## wagondog (Aug 24, 2007)

mylissyk said:


> I don't think the 99% was connected the possibility of euthanasia. It actually goes with the next statement in the post:
> 
> _"99% of the time he is wonderful - very gentle with my kids, who are a bit bigger, and incredible with me - very loyal, very smart, and generally awesome,..."_


Thanks for the correction.....
Jerry


----------



## Tahla9999 (Nov 21, 2008)

Yes, follow the advice many members have here. But if all else fails, I think it is safe to say some dogs are just not wired right. The fact that he is lunging at kids with little to no provoking is alarming. I was in a similar situation and I know how difficult it is to make the final decision.


----------



## leftlane (Jul 24, 2009)

Thanks to everyone for your kind words and thoughtful suggestions. The issue has been remedied in a way that is best for everyone involved. After observation with our vet and our trainer, along with consultations with one of the state's foremost behaviorists from Texas A&M, the decision was made to place Jax with another family, and that has taken place with the help of our wonderful vet. The issue was one of aggression and dominance - after witnessing Jax attack several other non-threatening dogs, the vets determined that any eye contact at his level, from either another dog or a small child, was taken as a direct challenge and he would immediately establish himself as the dominant alpha by attacking. Of course, this scares me to death with both other children and other dogs, but also my own kids who love to get on the floor and play with our other Golden. I just can't risk the possibility of an unprovoked attack that could have horrific results.

Our vet worked all week to help us locate another family with no children and experience in working with aggressive dogs (just in case), and she was ready for me to make the difficult decision on Friday afternoon. I cannot deny the opinions of trained experts, and they all told me that I really had no choice here. He will be missed by us and loved by his new family, and I pray that it all works out in the end. While we only had him here for 3 months, it still rips at my heart a bit.

I honestly can't detect any "depression" in Roxy, our Golden who is still here. She has been pretty happy this weekend - is it because she's back to being the center of attention, or that she no longer has to worry about a stealth attack from her compadre?

Thanks again - I hope to spend more time on here for reasons that are much more pleasant than this.

Todd


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Todd, I applaud you for doing the right thing for this dog, and for your family. You went the extra mile by finding another family for Jax. 

You've done well for everyone involved.


----------



## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I am glad that the vet, trainer and behaviorists worked to find out what the problem was and how to fix it without putting him down. And your vet finding a new family is wonderful and shows that he really cared. I know your heart hurts but you can rest easier knowing he has someone else that can love him. Glad you are staying around and hope you will share some pictures of Roy and him too.


----------



## wagondog (Aug 24, 2007)

Very happy to hear that a good resolution was achieved.


----------

