# The Horseman is Angry...



## Ninde'Gold

So, we recently moved out onto a 10 acre farm. The dogs absolutely LOVE the space we have for them to run around.

Well, kiddy corner to us is a huge million dollar race horse farm and their back field is beside our house and occasionally horses are training and trotting by.

Neither dog has been around horses before but usually are quick to listen to my "stay" when I see a horse approaching.

Not today... as soon as I opened the door, both dogs took off and somehow managed to get under/over the fence. Reece came right back when I yelled for her.

Tucker, who I think may be going deaf (as he doesnt even look when I call for him from far distances), wouldn't come back. I had to crawl through huge burr bushes and hop a fence that I tripped over, when he saw me, he sat on the horse track and looked at me like ":wavey:" :doh:

The whole ordeal only lasted like 2 minutes but the owner of the farm came right over, pounded on my door and said if he ever saw the dogs on his property again he'd shoot them dead, then said "especially this one" and pointed to Reece who was the most behaved one in the whole situtation...

Now I dont know what to do... my dogs won't hurt the horses, they just don't know what they are. Do I stop them from having free run of our own property?

Obviously I don't want my dogs to get shot but I'd hate to think that we have all this property and now I can't let them run on it in case they decide to do that again.

There's a couple of rolls of chainlink fence piled up beside the barn, maybe we should build them a huge run...

This sucks... I'm worried and confused now :gotme:


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## C's Mom

Is it possible to build up the fence between your two properites? I'm sure it will be costly but well worth the expense to you and your dogs over the years.

Is it legal to kill dogs in Ontario or to even threaten to do so?


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## Ninde'Gold

We're only renting this place for a year, not sure if we really want to invest a bunch of money on a fence to not be here that long.

I'm not sure if it's legal or not. I know its my responsibility to make sure my dogs stay on my property. But its not like the dogs are terrorizing his horses on a daily basis, its happened just once and Tucker just barked at a horse from like 50ft away.

I mean, even if there's a fence up and the horses are trotting by and the dogs start barking and it scares the horse... then what? I don't see how threatening to kill someones pet is going to solve the problem... 

Anyway, there's a few different types of old chain fencing in the back field... if anything we can build some sort of dog run and try to keep the dogs on the opposite side, away from his property.


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## Megora

I think my concern here is that if the guy next door doesn't shoot your dogs, the horses could nail and kill your dogs.

What kind of fence surrounds your yard? Maybe fence in a yard sized play area for the dogs for when they are going to be off leash.


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## Debles

My dogs are never outside without me and they have been trained to Heel, STAY and mind us. Until your dogs are trained it may be necessary to take them out on a long lead.


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## Ninde'Gold

The fence on that side of the yard is old wooden..like...log things? and some square rusty looking type fence.... a lot of it has fallen down.

My guess is the dogs found a hole, or jumped it. 

I think we'll just have to find a way to make them a dog run or keep them leashed at all times.


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## Florabora22

Unfortunately, once your property ends, his property begins, and it is his right to keep dogs off of it if he wants to. Furthermore, like Megora said, a horse could easily injure one of your dogs if it's spooked. I would either look into fencing off a part of your land or keeping them on a long leash. Sucks, but that's the way it is. :/


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## Ninde'Gold

It sucks, but I'll do what I gotta do. I've never dealt with someone like that before. Though he started petting Tucker towards the end and called said "stay, bubba" as he walked away... weirdo.

I guess we'll see if the landlord will let us put up fencing, if not, they'll just be walked like they used to.


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## Angelina

Dogs chasing horses IN Pasture is extremely serious business and I would be pretty pissed off too if dogs were in chasing mine. Horses can run thru fences, break legs and mentally be terrified from dogs forever. As someone who has seen a dog attack a horse in a paddock I completely understand this guy's concern. He does not know your dog's intentions and frankly, you don't either. Dogs instincts easily take over in the heat of the chase and they can tear a horses tendons just in 'good fun'. Depending on the state and county, he may very well have the right to shoot your dogs if they are terrorizing his livestock. So don't judge too harshly, it could have been worst...

That said there are solutions other then putting in a permanent, expensive fence. I have open space behind me and extended my yard out into it (actually unused private land). I used Benner fencing...the poles are put into a 'sleeve' in the ground so they can be removed without damage at anytime. The fence is a strong black plastic...you do not have to buy from them. Many livestock stores now offer this black fencing. I also put chicken wire at the bottom and then folded over the ground to discourage digging. I would not use if to a dog determined to leave its yard put for my 2 goldens it works fine. They respect it and stay in (so do my cats because they cannot climb it) and it keeps the rabbits and deer out of my garden. If the land ever gets sold or I'm told to take it down I can without harming it.

Here is a link and good luck to you.

Dog Fences - Best Friend Fence Dog Fences


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## GoldenMum

You could put in an invisible fence, I have one covering about 5 acres. That way you can take it with you when you leave. I have 5 dogs on it, no one crosses the line, even for deer.


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## Elisabeth Kazup

Horses are not the most sensible animals out there and they are perfectly capable of panic and severely injuring themselves to the point of death. They just RUN.

And unfortunately if you have a dog that may be hard of hearing, then you need to make doubly sure he can't get in with them. Can you get a roll of chicken wire or farm fencing to tack to the wood fence? 

The suggestion of invisible fence is a good one. You can get an diy kit from Petsafe.com.

I understand your concern, but as a horse owner with valuable show horses, I understand his concern too.


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## Ninde'Gold

Thanks for the suggestion.

I do understand his concern, but I think a simple knock on the door with a "Hi, I own the property next door and I'd appreciate it if the dogs stayed off of it as I have valuable horses I don't want spooked. Thanks" instead of "Imma kill your dogs!!" approach.

Especially since this is a first time offense for my dogs. We've only lived in cities so we're not used to things just yet.

Our landlord is stopping by on the weekend, we're going to ask if we can put up the fencing thats just laying by the shed and barn.


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## Florabora22

He probably is just a hot headed dude. I'm the same way. I'll get FURIOUS for like 1 minute and then I immediately cool down. Sounds like that's kind of what he did. Yelled at you, and then chilled out and petted Tucker. Don't take it personally. We can't help ourselves.


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## Ninde'Gold

Hahaha I'll try not to take it personally.

I completely understand that horses spook easily. I just don't want my dogs to lose their freedom because of it, y'know what I mean?

I'm sure we'll find the right solution for everyone.


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## Elisabeth Kazup

I hope you can find a way to keep your dogs home because they DO have the right to be free on YOUR property.

In defense of his anger, people out in the country tend to let their dogs roam. He was probably sick and tired of what he considers 'irresponsible owners' putting his stock at risk and just blew a gasket.

OR he really is a hothead, in which case he's probably totally serious about shooting dogs on his property. 

If I were you, I'd take whatever steps necessary to keep them home. Then I'd go over and let him know what you have done and that you don't want your dogs over there either.

btw, DD spent over $15K to perimeter fence the entire 10 acres because dogs were such a problem. Her property was treated like free range. 

"Good fences make good neighbors"


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## Ninde'Gold

Yeah, the previous people living here had a dog, I wonder if they let it roam and maybe that's why he was so angry.

The dogs are never out there alone, it's just today their curiosity got the best of them.

I have a bunch of cuts and bruises on my leg where I tripped over broken down fence, then had to pick like 100 burrs out of my shirt... :doh:

Today was not a happy day!


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## Elisabeth Kazup

I'll bet you're right!! Sorry about the cuts and burrs. You need a glass of wine and some Golden hugs! :smooch:


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## Ninde'Gold

Yeah, for sure!

Though Tucker hasn't left his crate since I yelled at him. He knows he did wrong! He's been hiding in there for hours. The door is open, he is free to come out LOL.


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## Angelina

You do not know if this guy has had dogs go after his horses in the past or not. Unfortunately dogs are known to run in packs at night and kill livestock...people think MY dog would never do this but guess what, they do! The country invites people to let their dog out and that is what they do... They run down deer until deer die of exhaustion, they go after sheep and livestock...it is way too common. And it is usually dogs of all shapes and sizes...

His horses should not have to be worried about being harrassed in their pasture which is their home because you decided to move to the country....

Really, you are lucky he came over and talked (or yelled) at you instead of just taking out the old shotgun...

BTW, it isn't how 'valuable' the horse is...we love our horses. Mine is NOT valueable to anyone...but he is priceless to me. I would protect him with my life.


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## Elisabeth Kazup

After I said it that way, Angelina, I realized that value is in the heart for us, not the $$$ signs. I apologize. I didn't mean to suggest there were any throw away horses. :no:


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## Angelina

Oh no, no, no need to apologize! I wasn't even thinking of your post! I was just thinking of it over all, that people may not understand horses are not just valuable money wise, but that we love them as much as our kids or our dogs too. If you've never had a horse or experienced that bond you just wouldn't know. Just like people whose never had that bond with a dog do not always realize....


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## GoldenJoy

May I make a case for the ever-so-inexpensive long lead? I guess with two dogs, it could get tricky, but we have just loved taking Joy out on her long line. We don't have a fence, and the long lead is an essential part of life for us. Best of all, it forces ME to take a break, get outside, and run around like a madwoman!!!! Like I said, though, it may not be practical with two dogs. I'm picturing you whirling around like a rotor as the dogs circle you, a leash in each of your hands...


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## Elisabeth Kazup

You're right! People don't understand that horses have personalities and love people the same as dogs do. My heart was so broken when Rocket died, it was 10 years before I could mention his name without crying. And he was a backyard baby, trained by me. 

btw, yesterday after I drove Daz, he had his head out over his door, watching me, while I swept and got ready to bring in the other two. I wondered why he wasn't eating his hay??? When I went in his stall to fill his water bucket, he started eating his hay and nuzzling my hair and neck. He was lovin' on me! and liked having me in his stall with him. :smooch: 



Angelina said:


> Oh no, no, no need to apologize! I wasn't even thinking of your post! I was just thinking of it over all, that people may not understand horses are not just valuable money wise, but that we love them as much as our kids or our dogs too. If you've never had a horse or experienced that bond you just wouldn't know. Just like people whose never had that bond with a dog do not always realize....


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## Angelina

Awww how sweet! I love going out to the pasture, calling Mystery.... and he lifts his head, whinneys and leaves the herd for me. Of course part of it is he knows I will give him treats but when he leaves too he nuzzles me...he does not do that to any other human....

Ok, guess we should go back to the horse thread now!!!


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## Ninde'Gold

You guys have such cute stories! 

I used to ride horses about 10 years ago... it's something I might get into again when we buy our own farm.

Is there a way to train horses and dogs to get along or do horses really not like smaller animals?


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## Angelina

My horse gets along with all dogs.... until they start barking! Here we share trails (fireroads) with bikers and hikers and their dogs. I can't tell you how many times I've introduced dogs to my horse and educated people on how to behave around horses.

My other dog has a high prey drive. She cannot be lose on the ranch at all (my barnowner has a 300 acre ranch and raises grass fed beef on most of it). She cannot be off leash on Mt.Burdell when the cattle are out. I found this out by accident one day when she went after the cattle (who were laying down) and got them up, started herding them all within 30 seconds; but then listened to me and came back. Now if the cattle are out, she is on leash. And believe me, I was horrified it happened!

So it isn't so much as 'getting' along but more of overcoming instinct. Some dogs will just naturally have more of that prey drive then others...

Remember, horses are prey animals...that means they are the meat the predators eat. They have to deal with coyote, mountain lions. They have to overcome their instinct in allowing us to ride them. They will use flight first, then fight if they have too. Flight would usually be enough except there are fences. That is why wolves will kill an entire flock of sheep...they cannot get away and their instinct stays up. If they could scatter they would settle.

I guess what you could do is take one dog on a leash at a time. Walk them on the outside of the fence with treats. Keep the dogs attention on you. If he starts barking and going crazy correct, turn and leave. If you can get him to a sit those horses will come over to you. They will come and look at you and the dog, they may even try and sniff him thru the fence. Turn his back to them and let them sniff. Give the dog treats. He will be a little intimidated (thats ok). Reward him for staying calm.

Will this cure him from chasing horses? I don't know. You will still need to take away that opportunity, but this may help.


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## Elisabeth Kazup

It all depends on the horse. Daughter's Aussie mix runs frantic circles around the horses barking and leaping, even jumps up and nips their noses. Our 3 are very calm, well-balanced and never react. When I was looking at Harry for the first time, he got a shock from the fence while his rider was on him. He never reacted to that either.

BUT, the dog must be the one who is under control if the horses don't like it. Nothing you can do with them once they've been traumatized. 

I often wonder if our horses would be as calm if a strange dog did the same thing. I think they know she belongs there and is approved by the boss mare! And I think they are glad she goes in the house with the boss mare and doesn't live with them!


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## Megora

Ninde'Gold said:


> Is there a way to train horses and dogs to get along or do horses really not like smaller animals?


Definitely. 

Jacks was a little puppy when I started bringing him out to introduce him to my horse. 

He still has the instinct to chase my horse when I turn my guy out or lunge him (so he has to be leashed with no exceptions), but when we are in my horse's stall, both guys are very comfortable with each other. Judging by how he greets my horse, I think Jacks is under the impression that Z is a big dog.  

Jacks has no fear of horses - and that in itself is a huge problem because he has no clue that other horses bite or kick. It scares the heck out of me.


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## Willow52

We live in a semi-rural area and our closest neighbor can't seem to keep their dogs on their property. We tried the neighborly knock-on-the-door approach but nothing changed. What did change the situation was a citation from the police after the one dog tried to come through the screen to get my dog. Here in our county it's legal to shoot a dog that come on one's property. We of course wouldn't do that.

We have a wood/wire fence as well as an invisible fence to keep our dog on our property. I understand you don't own the property, but that is no reason to allow your dogs to become a nuisance to your neighbor. This may be the first time, but more will follow now that your dogs know what fun it is!

I'd look into a wireless fence. It's much like an (underground) invisible fence. There is a transmitter plugged into an electrical outlet that emits a radio signal to the receiver collars within a radius. My dog won't cross the boundary of our fence for balls, people, deer etc.


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## GoldenCamper

Is there a place you could walk your dogs on leash on a regular basis with horses around to desensitize them to the horses?

I had the opposite problem you do with my adopted Fiona last year. First time she saw one she was petrified and hid behind dad. Now she could care less if one comes trotting along.


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## Elisabeth Kazup

She mentioned that one of her dogs has a hearing problem. Just wondering how a wireless fence would work with a dog who is hearing impaired. Is it a fair device? Is invisible fence a fair device?


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## Ninde'Gold

Thanks for all the great suggestions, guys!

Our landlord is stopping by this weekend, we're going to ask if he'd be okay with us putting up a temporary fence.

There's a huge roll of this stuff out by our barn:










Not the prettiest but it would certainly keep the dogs in I would think.

Then when we leave it can easily be taken down and rolled up again.


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## Angelina

That is like the black fencing I was talking about except the black fencing is almost invisible. You may have to take a roll of chicken wire and put it along the ground. Fold it in half so half is on the ground, half goes up the plastic fencing. You use irrigation 'U' metal clamps to keep it in the ground, plastic tyraps up on the fence. Otherwise the dog can just go underneath no problem.

This should help to deter them as you work on the training.... Good luck!


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## Ninde'Gold

I will have to go to the local farming store to see if I can find some chicken coop fencing.

I'm sure if we just put a few stakes in the ground here in there not in the middle of the yard or anything, the landlord shouldn't care TOO much. I'm sure he'd rather have tenants who are responsible in trying to keep their dogs contained than someone who doesn't give a crap and just lets them run wild.

It only happened once and it was enough to scare me out of wanting to let them run free again. I don't want anyone to shoot my dogs!! And I definitely don't want them being trampled by a horse or having the horses get hurt.

Thanks again guys for all the advice, I'll keep yas updated on the situation!


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## Ranger

Not sure if anyone mentioned it, but it is legal for property owner's to shoot dogs who are harassing their livestock. The problem is that not everyone agrees on what 'harassing' is. Disclaimed: This is NOT directed to the OP. With the de-urbanization happening, lots of city folk are moving out to the country and odds are, dogs haven't seen horses, cattle, sheep before. So dogs get loose or are left loose, they find these big animals and hey! these big animals RUN!! Well, this is fun!! So the dogs are chasing livestock who can end up seriously injured, cost thousands of dollars in vet bills (which i doubt the dog owners are going to pay) or they end up dead. That is too common of an occurrence in the country. Now, imagine if that'd happen and the owner of the livestock went to talk to the owner of the dog and the owner of the dog was one of those annoying people used to let their aggressive, under-exercised dogs run around at off leash parks terrorizing other dogs and making excuses. Dog owners gushes, 'ohhhh he's just playing! Pookie would NEVER mean to hurt your horses!" and won't do anything about it. Next time the dogs chase the livestock, they end up getting shot.

Again, I'm not saying Ninde'Gold is this type of owner. Obviously she's not because she was chasing her dogs and trying to get them back. I'm just trying to give some perspective. I had two strange dogs come in that started to chase the school horses in their paddock one time. It was AWFUL. Horses CAN tell the difference between the intent of a dog. A dog just cruising by or mildly interested won't alarm a horse. A dog that's too intent, too "predator"...will cause them to panic. I had 15 AGED senior horses galloping and almost running into fences trying to get away from the dogs who were harassing them: chasing, barking, nipping at heels. One dog got kicked in the head, flew 20 ft in the air, then got up and went back after the horses. 

It doesn't matter if dogs are trying to hurt the horses, i.e. snapping or trying to take one down to kill it, or if they're going to unintentionally injure a horse (or cow, or sheep, etc). Most people would have been heading out to the paddock with a shot gun and if I'd had one in my hands...

And like others have said, this doesn't mean horses and dogs can't mix. Lots of farms have dogs on the property off lead and there's no problems. My old border collie used to love going to the stable and the horses never cared about him, even when he was in their paddocks chasing gophers. Ranger, on the other hand, is a little too intense for the horses. He makes some uncomfortable though he's never done anything and probably wouldn't. But I'm not going to bet "probably" on Ranger's life and ever leave him unsupervised or off leash near livestock. 

So in the safety of your dogs Ninde'Gold, I'd look into getting a better fence or finding a way to keep them on property. Even if they're running after the horses and just trying to 'play', they can cause serious injury to the horses OR people, if the horses are mounted at the time. Not to mention your own dogs could easily get hurt or killed by a kick or getting trampled. If a dog is harassing a horse with a person on it's back, usual tactic is to get the horse to charge the dog. 

Now, having your dogs on YOUR property and barking/fence chasing at horses going by? Not a big deal whether the horses are loose or mounted so if anyone gives you grief over that, then they're being ridiculous. The loose horses are free to not go there and the mounted horses...need to learn to deal. So long as the dogs don't break loose and start chasing them!

Hope that helps put some perspective to it. We've had huge problems in the last few years with people moving out to the country and then thinking they could do what they wanted, i.e. loose dogs, discharging firearms constantly (one guy was shooting at cans on a fence and killed 2 horses an acre away), and so on. If you're on a rental property, I wouldn't be surprised if the owner of the horses has had to deal with people like that before and thought he'd come over and nip it in the bud before it happened so to speak. Especially since it's a lot easier to train a dog not to chase horses BEFORE they've learned to do so. Breaking the habit is almost impossible once it's been ingrained.


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## Angelina

Yes I think we did cover that! It is a big problem out here; not just country people letting their dogs out at night to run in packs, but city folks moving next to farms; especially dairy farms. They buy what I call 'gentleman's farm'...not really productive but a good tax write off as long as they grow 'something'. Then the wind changes and whoa...they didn't realize the dairy down the road stunk so bad. Next thing you know they are trying to change the zoning laws and get the dairy shut down...you know the mom and pop place that has been there for generations? It is problematic all the way around...

I think NindeGold took all of our criticism, warnings and advice really, really well; did not get defensive at all and will do the right thing to protect her dogs and her neighbors. She may even be a future horse owner; one who cares about her animals judging from her dogs, and we can't get too many of them!


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## Ninde'Gold

Thanks for the great post, you've given a lot of insight.

I kind of have a feeling the dog that used to live here was a problem. The guy seemed like he's had more than one occurance with dogs and his horses.

Even though my dogs only did it once, I kindly thanked him for stopping by (even though he wasn't nice AT ALL) and told him I wouldn't let it happen again.

Tucker didn't get too close to the horse but followed along barking in his fearful kind of bark like "oh my god big intruder get away". 

My SIL has horses, maybe I can bring the dogs over on leash and introduce them slowly.


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## mylissyk

Ninde'Gold said:


> We're only renting this place for a year, not sure if we really want to invest a bunch of money on a fence to not be here that long.
> 
> I'm not sure if it's legal or not. I know its my responsibility to make sure my dogs stay on my property. But its not like the dogs are terrorizing his horses on a daily basis, its happened just once and Tucker just barked at a horse from like 50ft away.
> 
> I mean, even if there's a fence up and the horses are trotting by and the dogs start barking and it scares the horse... then what? I don't see how threatening to kill someones pet is going to solve the problem...
> 
> Anyway, there's a few different types of old chain fencing in the back field... if anything we can build some sort of dog run and try to keep the dogs on the opposite side, away from his property.


Any amount of money you invest in fencing to keep your neighbor from shooting your dogs IS WORTH IT.

In most places it is perfectly legal for people to shoot dogs that are threatening their livestock, especially if they are on their property.

Do what it takes to keep your dogs on your property. It's YOUR responsibility to keep them contained.


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## mylissyk

Ninde'Gold said:


> Thanks for all the great suggestions, guys!
> 
> Our landlord is stopping by this weekend, we're going to ask if he'd be okay with us putting up a temporary fence.
> 
> There's a huge roll of this stuff out by our barn:
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> Not the prettiest but it would certainly keep the dogs in I would think.
> 
> Then when we leave it can easily be taken down and rolled up again.


I would not trust this type of material to contain the dogs, very flimsy plastic, they can push right under it.


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## Ranger

I posted before I saw the next posts by Ninde'Gold otherwise I may not have been quite so 'loquacious' in my post!

Ninde'Gold - you are really handling this well and I think the horse guy will realize that. The fact he knows you're going to do something about it instead of just blowing it off is huge. At the very least, the lines of communication are open so even if the dogs do sneak out in the future, hopefully he'll know it's an accident as opposed to not caring.

You're the kind of neighbour I'd want in the country, that's for sure!


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## Ninde'Gold

There's also a roll of this kind of fence by the barn:










I'm sure we can find some sort of t-bar to stick it to, though there wouldn't be a bar at the top but it should still hold, and its not as flimsy?


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## Ranger

Chicken wire will work (that's what the fencing is above) especially if you train them to leave it alone. Don't let the fence keep them in the yard, train them to stay away from the fence so they're not jumping or bouncing at it, does that make sense?


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## mylissyk

Ninde'Gold said:


> There's also a roll of this kind of fence by the barn:
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> I'm sure we can find some sort of t-bar to stick it to, though there wouldn't be a bar at the top but it should still hold, and its not as flimsy?


I think that's actually chain link fencing, which is a good option installed correctly, pulled tight top and bottom, and tall enough they can't jump it. If you attach it to the existing wood slat fence to cover the gaps they can get through it would be ideal. 

(I think it does have to have a top rail or it won't be sturdy enough to stand on it's own.)


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## Ninde'Gold

I did some research, this is who our neighbour is: 

Firestone Farms

I guess they race all over North America. I can see why they wouldn't want their thoroughbreds spooked by anything!

We're putting up the fence next weekend!


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## Elisabeth Kazup

Pretty nice horses. I know nothing about horse racing because basically I don't approve. But maybe you can get some inside information to bet with! :bowl:


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## Ninde'Gold

I've never seen a horse race before...don't care to watch one either... LOL.

Definitely not a gambler!


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## K9-Design

One of my best friends and her husband are pinhookers -- they train yearling TBs for racing. They have them for about 8 months, they don't own the horses, they train them for their clients who then re-sell them as 2 yr olds.
My friends will be the first ones to tell you that these horses are wild, highly reactive, spooky, and plain old unstable. The slightest thing can set them into a panic, which often results in injuries to the horse, equipment and/or the rider. Not only are the horses flighty, but very expensive, up to $1 million in value, and again, this is their livelihood, they make their living taking care of these animals and ensuring their safety. It is absolutely an unacceptable risk to have a loose dog around them. If I go to their house while they have babies out in training, I'm not allowed to even let my dogs out of the car, on leash, off leash, doesn't matter.
Sounds like you are handling this well, best of luck.


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## Ninde'Gold

The dogs haven't been near their property since. The ground started to freeze before we could afford/have time to get the fence up so we're gonna do it in the spring.

I've been working with the dogs on leash taking them near the property line, then correcting them when they go towards it. Hoping it will register in their heads that they can't go there. So far, so good!


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## Amberbark

*Chain Link Fence*

The photo is chain link and is a sturdy fence. Requires poles set in concrete and a top fence pole as the chain link itself is stretched tight with a come-along. We buried the bottom foot so no one/nothing could dig under.:wavey:


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## Ninde'Gold

We rolled out the two rolls of chain link and it turns out they're not as big as we thought so we're gonna have to use the orange snow fence, the black chain link, the grey chain link.... it'll be pretty! :uhoh: LOL. That's okay. I'm not concerned on looks as long as it keeps everyone in/out where they should be!


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## bioteach

It's too bad that you didn't know about the horses before you signed a lease, but it is impossible to anticipate everything. The property seems like heaven for dogs; but perhaps a half acre would be enough for them. 

Rather than fence the whole property perhaps it would be best to select a nice area that would let your babies run in. This way you would have a "buffer" zone that keeps horses and dogs separated. Horses are beautiful, but not very smart compared to dogs who have evolved from animals that cooperate and hunt for a living.

Once your neighbor sees that you are making an effort on his behalf I bet that you will see him soften up quite a bit.


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## Ninde'Gold

We're just fencing in the back portion of our yard. Hard to explain...

There's a huge front yard the dogs never go in, the backyard (where we have a door and patio doors leading outside), then there's a whole other side yard on the other side of the laneway (no where near any horses) where the dogs play.

The side yard is located beside one of our 2 or 3 acre fields that's completely fenced in.

The dogs can only get to the horse farm beside us from the backyard where the old fencing fell down, that's where we'll be putting the fence up. 

Does that make sense...?


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## Ranger

Actually, horses are very smart when it comes to dogs.:wave: You're viewing horses' intelligence from a 'predator' perspective. People tend to think their flightiness is from dumbness when it's just the opposite. Sure, we can rationalize that horses shouldn't run from playing dogs because they're "just dogs" but...Horses are prey animals and have lived for thousands of years RUNNING from dog-like creatures in order to survive. So when they're reacting to something "we" think is stupid, i.e. a dog, it's actually how horses have survived for as long as they have. And survived and been sacrificed to help mankind progress through the ages.

"Look back at our struggle for freedom,
trace our present's day strength to its source,
and you'll find that man's pathway to glory,
is strewn with the bones of the horse."

So I will have to disagree with you about horses not being smart in comparison to dogs. Horses are VERY smart and always have been. Don't take their flightiness as 'stupid'. If dogs are smart based on their ability to be domesticated and to 'hunt', then that should be value of intelligence should be applied to horses, as well. If a horse wasn't domesticated, there's no way people would be able to take advantage of their kind nature that allows people to share in their strength and power. If humans were wiped off the face of the earth tomorrow, my horse would survive no problem but I doubt Ranger would. Please don't write off a horse's intelligence because you're judging their actions as not making sense based on a predator's perspective.


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