# Casey has bone chips in his knee?!?!



## Nomes (Nov 7, 2011)

Casey, my 4 and 1/2 month puppy was scheduled for his first puppy class, so my brother took him out for a run to work off some of that energy...And then about 30 minutes later he was limping...(we didn't take him to the class btw!)
We took him to the vet this morning, did x-rays and they said he had some bone chips floating around in his knee. they're not sure if it's congenital or because of a fall or something...
I'm just curious if anyone has had this happen to their dog before?
He's in some pain, he's limping, but he still jumps up to check the counters so he can't be hurting too bad! 
The vet gave us some doggy-pain meds and we're working out a surgery for next week hopefully.
Thanks!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I think it can be caused by both hereditary conditions + an injury. 

It could have been anything that caused the chips.... including the running. You can't wrap them in bubble wrap until they are adults, but this is one of the reasons why I would not run with a puppy. 

Hope all goes well, poor little guy. Our Danny had bone chips in one of his elbows. It was something we regretted later on - not having that surgery done.


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## Nomes (Nov 7, 2011)

yeah, i should've told my brother to lay off with the running...he's 17 and has boundless energy and doesn't understand that puppies should run until they're half dead! : ok, i'm exaggerating slightly...
Thanks for the well wishes!


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## Nomes (Nov 7, 2011)

oh, and what happened to Danny? did he develop arthritis? that's what our vet was saying might happen even if we did the surgery!


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## 2dogsandagrrl (Nov 16, 2010)

Nelson has bone chips and spurs in his left elblow. He started limping around 2 off an on after exercise. An xray revealed the elbow of an old arthritic dog. My vet thought it was from an injury when he was younger. X-rays were sent to an Orthopedic surgeon and she wanted to do a scope to remove the chips and such. The more research I read the less I was convinced that this might have a good outcome as arthritis had already set in and I didn't want to take the chance that he might have a permanent limp at such a young age. I put him on Ester C, MSM, Synflex, fish oil and other supplements and the limp went away in days. He might limp a couple of times a year if he goes crazy when he's off leash but otherwise not. I don't let him jump out of vehicles or off the bed or stuff like that. He's 6 now and he's still limp free.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Nomes said:


> oh, and what happened to Danny? did he develop arthritis? that's what our vet was saying might happen even if we did the surgery!


Yes. 

And we were told the same by the specialist who convinced us not to go ahead with surgery. He said he would perform the surgery for us, but essentially there would be a long recovery + therapy for maybe two or three years of painfree life before Danny developed arthritis. He said that many dogs who have the surgery still develop arthritis by the time they are five or six.

That in addition to the conflicting diagnoses we were getting (Pano+elbow dysplasia, OCD, Just Pano, Bone Chips in elbow result from an injury, bilateral elbow dysplasia, elbow dysplasia just in the one elbow) - sent us back home to wait it all out and treat as best as we could.

I think knowing what I do now, I would have risked that surgery anyway. Danny lived a very _normal_ and active life, but we xrayed his elbows much later on when he was 10 or 11, and they were roughed up quite a bit. The vet who looked at them said they were the worst elbows she'd ever seen. We had him on a combination of joint supplements and "as needed" pain meds all his life, but I believe to a certain extent he had adjusted to some level of pain.


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## Nomes (Nov 7, 2011)

oh great...just great!  well, we'll do the surgery and hope that since this happened so early in his life that he'll heal up and not have too much pain...?? The xrays did show excellent hips though, on a happy note!


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## desi.n.nutro (Mar 18, 2011)

Ask your Vet about adding Glucosamine, Chondroitin, and Green Lipped Mussel to possibly prevent, or at least lessen, the affect of arthritis: 

Many years ago, off the coast of New Zealand, researchers came across an unexpected anomaly. But it wasn’t what they found that was the anomaly, it was what they didn’t find. They discovered a community living off the coast of New Zealand absent of arthritis symptoms. How is this possible? Arthritis was present in all societies around the world, how was this community any different? After studying the New Zealanders, it was determined that their diet, which was high in Green-Lipped Mussel, was the only discernible difference between this community and others around the world. Green-Lipped Mussel is a nutritional whole food that possesses a unique fatty acid combination. This edible bivalve, a class of freshwater marine life, has been a valuable food source for the native people of New Zealand for centuries. It contains the ocean's natural mineral balance, similar to that found in the human body.
Green-Lipped Mussel is a bivalve mollusk shellfish that differs from other mussel species. Green-Lipped Mussel has a dark brown/green shell, a green lip around the edge of the shells and only has one adductor muscle (similar to that of the muscles in a human hip). It is also one of the largest mussel species reaching 240 mm in length. Green-Lipped Mussel contains a unique combination of fatty acids (ETA, EPA & DHA) that are not found in any other marine or plant life. It is this unique
combination that assist in the natural rejuvenation of joint tissues. Studies have found Green-Lipped Mussel is a nutritional solution for joint health. Successful research studies have been conducted using Green-Lipped Mussel associated with:​•​Osteoarthritis (degenerative joint disease)​•​Rheumatoid Arthritis Bursitis​•​Sports Related Injuries​•​Lyme Disease​•​Inflammatory Skin Condition​•​Connective Tissue Repair
Maintaining joint mobility is key to both people and dogs, and impacts the quality of life in 20% of people and approximately half of the dog population. Mobility issues can affect adult dogs of all sizes, senior and large breed dogs, overweight and working dogs, and breeds with predisposition to hip & joint problems. 
​
(Article from GREENIES Hip and Joint)


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## Nomes (Nov 7, 2011)

Thanks so much desi.n.nutro!!


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Have you considered getting a second opinion from a board certified orthopedist?


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## Nomes (Nov 7, 2011)

LibertyME...i haven't...would i contact one by phone or email or would i have to go to one....? are they like normal vets but certified in some way?
Thanks for the suggestion! Maybe you could recommend a place where i could find one?

sorry, i'm a little clueless on this whole issue, i just want to try as many things as i can to get what's best for Casey!


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

I would start a new titled something like "Looking for canine orthopedist near (name a town) MN. That will catch the eye of more forum members... then you could link back to this thread or copy/paste your initial post in this thread...

A second set of eyeballs wouldnt hurt...then if they also say that he needs surgery at least you will (hopefully) be getting someone that does lots of procedures...


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

Nomes said:


> yeah, i should've told my brother to lay off with the running...he's 17 and has boundless energy and doesn't understand that puppies should run until they're half dead! : ok, i'm exaggerating slightly...
> Thanks for the well wishes!


Sorry about your pup. My 1.5 year old has elbow dysplasia. I don't know about surgery at this point. I have heard from a few people not to do it. We also don't have the money right now...

Just in case others did not know this: puppies SHOULD NOT be doing ANY forced running, especially at such a young age. Need to wait until at least 1 or 2 years old. And they need to be introduced to longer distances gradually. Stress like that on the joints can either lead to injury directly or exacerbate genetic predispositions to joint problems.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

You might want to talk to your breeder too...

As well as asking your vet for a referral.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Yes board certified orthopedists are specialists that have had further education & taken additional board exams and usually only see orthopedic cases.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

I doubt a 30 minute run would cause bone chipping. I would see the specialist for a second opinion and also contact the breeder if it is possibly hereditary.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

MikaTallulah said:


> I doubt a 30 minute run would cause bone chipping. .


For adult dogs with healthy joints and good structures, probably not. 

With puppies going through a gangly stage, with immature bones, who might be genetically prone to something like OCD... I think so.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I wonder if it is OCD? Definitely contact a vet orthopedic specialist.


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## Nomes (Nov 7, 2011)

thanks so much everyone! i will be looking for a ortho specialist! 

Sally's Mom, what's OCD? all i can come up with is obsessive compulsive disorder...:


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Osteochondritis Dissecans

Canine OCD (Osteochondritis Dissecans) | Symptoms, Causes, and Treatment of OCD in Dogs

Puppies should never be taken on long runs on hard surfaces, to avoid damaging growing bones and growth plates. Voluntary running and playing is fine, but not forced runs ie, jogging/running partner. Dogs should not be jogging/running partners until they are 18 months to 2 years.


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