# Beware of dancing gate



## Tunu

I am writing this, to create awareness with regards to 'DANCING GATE GOLDEN RETRIEVERS'. I would advise any future puppy owners to stay away from this place. It is exactly what one might call a puppy 'farm/mill'. There are about 60+ Golden retrievers and flat coat retrievers there, being bred to produce and unlimited supply of puppies. Please do not be fooled. The people there will lead you to believe that they have an extremely high standard of breeding, bombarding you with information on hip scores and eye tests and what not, however the majority of it is just one big lie. The whole farm just seems extremely dodgy, you cannot go around the back, you can only greet some of the dogs through a wired fence (probably because they don't want you to see how many dogs they REALLY have) They do not let you see the puppies or the mother until the day you get it. They just allocate you a puppy. The real reason as to why you don't get to see the puppies is probably because you would see the condtions in which they are kept in. You will be told that the reason you cannot see them is due to parvo virus. However if this is true, then why would every other reputable breeder allow you to see their puppies? The bitches are just mated far too often that deemed healthy. From the front entrance you can see about ten dogs all in kennels, but what you cannot see, is all the other dogs behind these. If you want a quality golden retriever, that will not end up with future health or behavioural problems do not buy a puppy from here. All you will be doing is promoting mass commercial breeding. PLEASE. THINK BEFORE YOU BUY.


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## soup

We have a 4 year old boy from Dancing Gate. Maybe we just got lucky, but he is in perfect health, beautifully tempered, excellent hips and eyes and smart as a whip. Our goldie is a stunning specimen and gets commented on by everyone who sees him. The reactions when we tell people we got him from Dancing Gate are priceless.

I agree that the process of buying him felt a bit strange at the time, but to say Joy doesn't care for her dogs or doesn't know what she's doing is absurd. Take the time to sit and speak to her (as we did) and you'll soon learn how much she loves her animals. She's been breeding goldies for more than 50 years, of course she has a lot of dogs around. 

I have since seen a lot of this "Dancing Gate is a puppy mill" and general dog snobbery in the years since we got ours. Do your own research, take the time to speak to Joy at Dancing Gate about her dogs and her breeding history and then make up your own mind.


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## Tunu

soup said:


> We have a 4 year old boy from Dancing Gate. Maybe we just got lucky, but he is in perfect health, beautifully tempered, excellent hips and eyes and smart as a whip. Our goldie is a stunning specimen and gets commented on by everyone who sees him. The reactions when we tell people we got him from Dancing Gate are priceless.
> 
> I agree that the process of buying him felt a bit strange at the time, but to say Joy doesn't care for her dogs or doesn't know what she's doing is absurd. Take the time to sit and speak to her (as we did) and you'll soon learn how much she loves her animals. She's been breeding goldies for more than 50 years, of course she has a lot of dogs around.
> 
> I have since seen a lot of this "Dancing Gate is a puppy mill" and general dog snobbery in the years since we got ours. Do your own research, take the time to speak to Joy at Dancing Gate about her dogs and her breeding history and then make up your own mind.



Hi,
I understand what you are saying, we had in fact put a deposit on a puppy and we spoke to joy for a long long time, she seems like a lovely lady. She is. But it's all gotten a bit out of hand. Do you really agree on having more than 60+ dogs and using them to breed? Dogs are meant to be in a home and in a loving environment. Not locked in kennels. We went to different vets and they ALL told us to stay away from dancing gate. Do you think they told us that for no reason? They said that 90% of dogs they get from dancing gate end up with health problems and many of the people that we met who had dogs from dancing gate said not to go there. Not one person recommended it. Ask any reputable breeder whether they agree with not letting you see the puppy before putting a deposit. It's completely absurd. Joy will make you believe that what all the other breeders are doing is wrong, but how can she be the ONLY one with this rule? We even met with one of the lady's that used to work at golden gates who said it was awful and unsanitary and that was the reason they made you wipe your feet with disinfectant and why they let you only meet the dogs behind a gate. Because with having so many dogs there, they are all prone to disease. Especially the puppies. We have 3 people in our own neighbourhood who bought dogs from dancing gate and told us that they had fleas and all of them ended up with some sort of hip problem. I really do think that you have been extremely lucky! Of course all the dogs are lovely and friendly, most goldens are. It's the health problems that many are concerned about. As well as the way in which the dogs are kept. It's really not fair to keep dogs like that. Just have a proper think about it. We went there 3 months ago. And it was really ridiculous. 
Regards,


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## Cari

I would NEVER see a reason to have that many dogs! No way they can all be quality and obedient and loved to the fullest in those circumstances :-(


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## MGMF

soup said:


> We have a 4 year old boy from Dancing Gate. Maybe we just got lucky, but he is in perfect health, beautifully tempered, excellent hips and eyes and smart as a whip. Our goldie is a stunning specimen and gets commented on by everyone who sees him. The reactions when we tell people we got him from Dancing Gate are priceless.
> 
> I agree that the process of buying him felt a bit strange at the time, but to say Joy doesn't care for her dogs or doesn't know what she's doing is absurd. Take the time to sit and speak to her (as we did) and you'll soon learn how much she loves her animals. She's been breeding goldies for more than 50 years, of course she has a lot of dogs around.
> 
> I have since seen a lot of this "Dancing Gate is a puppy mill" and general dog snobbery in the years since we got ours. Do your own research, take the time to speak to Joy at Dancing Gate about her dogs and her breeding history and then make up your own mind.


I am not responding to the intention of Dancing Gate as I don't have anything to verify them one way or another. I will give a comment to this situation as it exists in so many places. 

At 4 years old you probably won't see the results yet of bad hips or eyes. Golden's parents and several generations should have minimum clearances for for hips, elbows, heart and eyes. If your puppies pedigree was not cleared there is a chance as he ages these things will effect him. It is very sad when a dog is 8-10 and could have a longer life in front of them but suffer from pain in the joints. They develop eye issues or have heart failure. This is just some things we can start to prevent. Smart, sweet and beautiful for a golden is not a sign of good breeding. Sick or poor breed puppies are just as cute as the healthy ones. I don't know what your strange process of getting the puppy was but if you can not visit or explore where they come from it is bad practice. Just because someone loves dogs or is nice does not make it acceptable how they breed dogs. There is a point to have to many dogs and breeding 50 years is not the reason. Did you verify with their vet to know ever dog on the property was being seen and getting the correct care at all times. Did you see their property to know the conditions are well kept, they are socialized, exercised and have human contact more then to have the dog bowl dropped in their cage? How often do they breed all the females and do they always use the same dogs? Are the breeding pairs only breed after two years old when clearances can be done? Are all the clearances valid and up to date? The love for animals is not the reason to get a dog from someone. Even hoarders love animals. This is not a form of snobbery but the need to know the intentions for caring about their dogs especially when considering breeding them. If some of these things are not being met then the underlining answer is they are not doing their best to properly caring for them. If a nice person convinces you this situation is a good place to get a puppy then you are being taken advantage of if want to accept it or not. If someone purchases a puppy from dogs without clearances or being able to see they are getting the best care then they are supporting mills or poor breeding practices. I feel if the puppy purchaser truly loves dogs and puppies they would not support the lack of care that is causing lots of dogs to suffer.


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## tippykayak

Is this in Australia? Are you referring to Dancingate rather than Dancing Gate?

I see "WA" and I think "Washington," but is it West Australia?


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## tippykayak

The criticisms here, if true, would be cause for concern, but a lot of it seems very speculative. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it seems a bit hasty to judge so severely based on the information given thus far.

Do we have any hard information on how many litters this breeder breeds every year? On whether clearances are being done or not done? Don't forget that if this is Australia, some of the best practices may be different than what the GRCA CoE presents.

I'm certainly not endorsing them, but Tunu, please understand that there's no way to verify any of what you've presented here.


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## Shalva

tippykayak said:


> The criticisms here, if true, would be cause for concern, but a lot of it seems very speculative. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it seems a bit hasty to judge so severely based on the information given thus far.
> 
> Do we have any hard information on how many litters this breeder breeds every year? On whether clearances are being done or not done? Don't forget that if this is Australia, some of the best practices may be different than what the GRCA CoE presents.
> 
> I'm certainly not endorsing them, but Tunu, please understand that there's no way to verify any of what you've presented here.


I dont know about Oz but I do know that in Denmark for example these large commercial kennels are fairly common and some are very well respected... it is a different model than what we see here...


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## tippykayak

Shalva said:


> I dont know about Oz but I do know that in Denmark for example these large commercial kennels are fairly common and some are very well respected... it is a different model than what we see here...


Even the GRCA is careful not to condemn breeders purely by volume. They do make a distinction that a High Volume Breeder, defined as 7+ litters a year, isn't the idea place to get a dog, but they also don't come out and condemn the practice.

While I personally would not ever get a dog from a kennel fitting the definition of an HVB and would never recommend one, I'm more concerned about clearances, temperament, and health issues than I am about the volume itself.


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## Jasmin86

*Hip dysplasia*

Hi All,
I have concerns also of Dancing Gate located south of Perth, Western Australia. I was living in Karratha, WA and proceeded to purchase a puppy from Joy / Dancing Gate in September 2011. A work friend of mine had a Dancing Gate Male who was over a year old and seemed like a lovely dog, and I also knew of other families in the community who had Dancing Gate Dogs and they all seemed to be healthy looking animals. I contacted Joy after seeing her advertisement and we spoke over the phone numerous times before getting a pup as I was living 1600 kms north of Perth. Joy let me take the pup at 8 weeks (which I thought was really young - as my previous Golden Retriever which I purchased in NZ which is now 14.5 years of age was picked up at 12 weeks). I travelled to Perth personally to pick up my female pup and quite frankly was shocked by what I found. Joy assured me that she had been breeding dogs for years and that her dogs were the most well trained Golden Retreivers I'd ever see. On arrival Joy let me view the father of my pup behind a fence and when he was let out by one of Joy's workers he was probably the worst trained Retriever I'd ever seen - he was jumping all over Joy's worker and nearly knocked her over, and was basically uncontrollable. He did not come when he was called or anything! Not what I'd expect from a well trained dog. When I asked if I could view the Mother or any of the other puppies I was told that due to the risk of infection I was unable to. I also asked when my puppy had been weaned as I was concerned at taking the pup so early. Joy informed me that the puppy hadn't seen its Mother since it was 3 weeks old - I was like ***!! My puppy has grown into a beautiful dog who is now 16 months old, however from a young age I noticed her gait did not appear right and she seemed to waddle. A week ago she started limping and I've now had her examined and x-rayed by a vet and they have diagnosed her with hip dysplasia and she has had to start a treatment regime consisting of weekly injections and I'm going to start taking her to hydrotherapy etc. I viewed her x rays to which her hip sockets and neck of femurs aren't developed and are not sitting in the sockets well at all. I am now in for hefty vet bills and my dog requires life long medication and faces decreased quality of life (I had my dog fully insured in Australia - and have just moved back to NZ 2 months ago and cancelled the insurance and now this has happened!!) Joy told me she had hip scores and I took her word for it and never viewed them. I have now learnt from this mistake and will never get another puppy without doing a large amount of research. I also have massive concerns about what is behind closed doors at Joy's property. I would be interested to know how often the property is checked by authorities.


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## gregormci

i too have a problem with dancing gate. my goldie of 7 months has just been diagnosed with hip dysplasia. so severe that only option is total hip replacement :-( 
question is how Joy can sit there and convince us that she's breeding with the dogs best interest and that all her dogs are of perfect health. i cant believe our lovely dog is going to have to go through operations etc with the pain associated with it. Joy needs to stop this breeding. What age is she anyway? surely she is unfit to run such an operation. when we turned up to collect our puppy she couldn't even remember us and had nothing prepared. wish i just decided to turn away at that point. but then we would never have our 'buddy' in our lives. im very angry with Joy, and wish there was some way to report Dancing Gate and have them banned from breeding or even limit them. 

anyway here goes months and months of surgery and recovery and not to mention the cost that this old woman has brought to our family! 

So make your own mind up about Dancing Gate. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## AllieB

We too have *serious* health issues with our Golden Retriever purchased from DANCINGATE. He is less than a year old. The financial and emotional cost has been severe. It is so serious that I have raised my concerns with Dogs West who are a member of the Australian Kennel Council and emailed [email protected] A representative is now dealing with this on my behalf.

I PLEAD with anyone who has issues with their dog purchased from this kennel to please contact Dogs West. There is nothing that can be done unless they have the appropriate data and can act accordingly. Complaining on the Internet does not give the appropriate authorities the opportunity to prove there are possible inherent issues in breeding kennels (this is not meant to offend previous posters). Please note we read initial comments on here before we purchased our dog and put it down to the competitive nature of breeding practice.

We also registered our dog on K9DATA.COM Home Page using our dogs papers to which we were able to obtain a 5 generation pedigree. It made interesting reading.


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## SammyStorm

I saw this thread pop up in Google during my search for Golden Retriever breeders in WA, however I have had my own bad experience with Dancingate.

8 years ago, my Mum was looking for a dog to buy since our Dalmatian had passed away the year prior. Upon researching breeds, she fell in love with the Flat Coated Retriever.
At the time I was only 12, however my 11 year old brother and I still had a say in this decision on the dog itself. 

In the beginning she got in contact with Black Regal, how's now over East. My mum had her heart set on a black male, but the breeder only had one and she wanted to keep him, so then she was directed to Dancingate.

We went there only once, I saw the father of the puppies through the wire fence. Rufus his name was, and then we saw the mother Opal. It was very brief but I had also noticed the kennels with all the dogs locked up towards the back, if I had the knowledge then which I do now, I would have known what I was looking at.

Joy seemed nice, she plopped a black boy down in the grass nearby. He was so happy seeing grass for the first time (for it's what it seemed to me at the time), that he was uninterested in us. However, we purchased him that day. We named him Storm.

He was a normal puppy, chewing on things and very playful. However during his Obedience Training (which I went with my mum to) at 8 months old, he developed a strange limp. Vets later told us he had severe hip dysplasia.

Joy was then contacted, she told my parents that they were lying. Then we sent her a copy of the X-Rays, she then said to us "do you want a replacement dog then?", we were so offended, we loved little Stormy with our hearts.

His life was filled with pills, injections every 3 months and yet he still loved life every day to the fullest despite being in so much pain. Storm was truly the best dog to have during my teenage to adult years, he'd been with us through so much.

Unfortunately he passed away from a tumor last year in June at 7 years old, my mum has his ashes in a box back at her home. Before Storm passed however, he managed to teach my little Siberian Husky puppy a few of his old tricks, making my dog seemingly part retriever.

I'm always seeing Joy advertise her puppies on gumtree and the quokka, stating that she's a licensed breeder yet I can't find her on DogsWest or DogzOnline. I inform as many people as I can about Dancingate and offer my friends assistance when they're looking to buy a puppy. I've learnt a lot from this experience, studying animals in TAFE helped a lot too. 

I just want her to stop, because it breaks my heart thinking that some other family has a little Storm in their household, winning their love but not being able to live life to the fullest, pain free.


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## gregormci

AllieB said:


> I PLEAD with anyone who has issues with their dog purchased from this kennel to please contact Dogs West. There is nothing that can be done unless they have the appropriate data and can act accordingly.




Thanks Allie, i am going to email them to raise my complaint. hopefully this woman will be stopped!


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## gregormci

I got a reply from Dogs West. 
Apparently this afternoon Joy Smith handed in her resignation as a member of Dogs West, effective immediately, this means that Dogs West cannot take any action against her.
-very smart on Mrs Smiths part i reckon.

anyway, i don't know if that means that she is legal able to sell pups now but lets hope she has now stopped!


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## Barbara H L

I too would like to add my experience. Many years ago my parents wanted a golden retriever and had the misfortune to purchase one from Dancingate. He was a beautiful dog but upon testing many years later for hip dysplasia he was one of the worst they had ever seen. Yesterday my husband and I responded to an advert in the West and got this long, long diatribe about her babies. We went to have a look at the puppy. He was lovely but!! When I introduced myself she did likewise but just said Joy, I asked her surname because the place looked familiar. I didn't say anything as my husband had never been there, but I just listened. We were not allowed to touch the puppy unless we were buying and had paid - in case of viruses etc. We too saw the mother and father through the railings and were allowed to touch them. She said she had 60 dogs and that they were all her babies.
She has three people looking after the dogs. If this is not a puppy farm then I don't know what is. Totally heartbreaking. Dogs require human contact and love - I don't see them getting much of that being shut up in cages


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## Barbara H L

Also they do not advertise Dancingate in their adverts any more and the name Dancingate has been removed from the front of the property


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## jagaro

Tunu said:


> I am writing this, to create awareness with regards to 'DANCING GATE GOLDEN RETRIEVERS'. I would advise any future puppy owners to stay away from this place. It is exactly what one might call a puppy 'farm/mill'. There are about 60+ Golden retrievers and flat coat retrievers there, being bred to produce and unlimited supply of puppies. Please do not be fooled. The people there will lead you to believe that they have an extremely high standard of breeding, bombarding you with information on hip scores and eye tests and what not, however the majority of it is just one big lie. The whole farm just seems extremely dodgy, you cannot go around the back, you can only greet some of the dogs through a wired fence (probably because they don't want you to see how many dogs they REALLY have) They do not let you see the puppies or the mother until the day you get it. They just allocate you a puppy. The real reason as to why you don't get to see the puppies is probably because you would see the condtions in which they are kept in. You will be told that the reason you cannot see them is due to parvo virus. However if this is true, then why would every other reputable breeder allow you to see their puppies? The bitches are just mated far too often that deemed healthy. From the front entrance you can see about ten dogs all in kennels, but what you cannot see, is all the other dogs behind these. If you want a quality golden retriever, that will not end up with future health or behavioural problems do not buy a puppy from here. All you will be doing is promoting mass commercial breeding. PLEASE. THINK BEFORE YOU BUY.


I have just spent a heartbreaking three hours trying to comfort a friend who has to have her beloved three year old Golden Retriever put to sleep this afternoon due to cronic hip displacement. He was purchased from Dancing Gate with the assurance that they never had these problems with their dogs. Yeah right! Buyer, be very aware. RIP darling. We will miss you terribly.


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## Waterbowl1

To affected Dancing Gate dog owners PLEASE contact WA Commerce and lodge a formal complaint. Dogs West can do nothing as the breeder is no longer ANKC registered and the RSPCA will not intervene.

Making a complaint or an enquiry - Consumer Protection - Department of Commerce


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## Lexy2014

I purchased a female retriever from joy late in 2014 and was very uncomfortable with the lack of contact with the puppy I was interested in but after just reaching into the holding pen and grabbing her out and placing her on the ground I just walked away to view the parents running around in the large yard. Apon turning around there she was sitting beside my foot looking loving up at me. Sure I was worried about the practices joy has. I was always under the impression that you should let the dog choose you and under these circumstances you dont see the whole litter. But the little girl I left with is heathy and the sweetest little soul I have ever come across. If joy had another litter of goldens to sell I would not hesitate to get another golden from her. Every breeder has had problems and if they were around as long as joy would have worse odds than her. Leave the poor lady alone she has given up her breeders licence and would be heart broken the way she was treated by her peers especially what she gave to the industry in her day. Thanks again joy for our gorgeous girl.


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## mylissyk

Lexy2014 said:


> I purchased a female retriever from joy late in 2014 and was very uncomfortable with the lack of contact with the puppy I was interested in but after just reaching into the holding pen and grabbing her out and placing her on the ground I just walked away to view the parents running around in the large yard. Apon turning around there she was sitting beside my foot looking loving up at me. Sure I was worried about the practices joy has. I was always under the impression that you should let the dog choose you and under these circumstances you dont see the whole litter. But the little girl I left with is heathy and the sweetest little soul I have ever come across. If joy had another litter of goldens to sell I would not hesitate to get another golden from her. Every breeder has had problems and if they were around as long as joy would have worse odds than her. Leave the poor lady alone she has given up her breeders licence and would be heart broken the way she was treated by her peers especially what she gave to the industry in her day. Thanks again joy for our gorgeous girl.



Just fyi, this thread is 2 years old.


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## 12345

Hello, ok, I feel really sad just now. I seriously want to kill the breeder. SERIOUSLY. I actually don't know what this is-- as in the place-- but the place where I got my very first dog was EXACTLY AS YOU DESCRIBED THERE. SHe died. At the age of 11 months. this year in february. Our family didn't know ANYTHING ABOUT WHERE TO ACTUALLY BUY DOGS ETC. And unluckily found a place EXACTLY like that. 

ok I have done research -- IT IS THAT PLACE AND I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW. 
cutting stuff short now. 

I'm depressed since my dog's passing. we never really knew why and from what and how she died. she was in good health ... was.. and just. Argh I can't do this .. my head is a mess. I just found this out -- this is seven months after she went. I dont know what to do .. why does she have to suffer.. Joy masked everything so well and being an old lady and all that -- now i think back everything was dodgy af. but i didn't think at that time. why am i so dumb what the heck.. but that you .. now I know a factor contributing to her death..


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## Prism Goldens

There are bad breeders in every country, mediocre breeders, fair breeders and good breeders, as well as master breeders in every country. The continuum is never going to change. 
The best measure of whether a breeder is doing a good job is found in peer review, in my opinion. Puppy buyers rarely know what they are looking at, or how to discern quality. Even titles and clearances are not the full picture. That's one reason I find such value in this forum, for here, a puppy buyer can come and ask and will get an honest peer review that includes such things outside of clearances and titles but also can put the titles into a fair "how hard is it" model, and let the puppy person know whether the titles are any indicator of anything such as trainability, conformation, etc. 
Recently someone posted something criticizing us for criticizing a breeder. Believe me, no one here enjoys having to say someone is sub-par, or less than transparent in their practices. But it is one of the jobs of the GRF to allow those more qualified than a buyer to translate what they are seeing/hearing/reading into common english so that they can make an educated choice. 
I hope that this thread's breeder is no longer cranking out puppies, 60 dogs are too many to manage litters from well in my opinion. I personally couldn't remember the names of 60 dogs much less work with them enough to title and know traits of so that I could make good breeding decisions~


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## Rachel Anderson

I was just about to buy a pup from her for 2 grand!!! Thank God I did my research. However I did not see anything upsetting. The two dogs I meet were beautiful but I did not go out the back and Joy came across very lovely


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## Joni J

soup said:


> We have a 4 year old boy from Dancing Gate. Maybe we just got lucky, but he is in perfect health, beautifully tempered, excellent hips and eyes and smart as a whip. Our goldie is a stunning specimen and gets commented on by everyone who sees him. The reactions when we tell people we got him from Dancing Gate are priceless.
> 
> I agree that the process of buying him felt a bit strange at the time, but to say Joy doesn't care for her dogs or doesn't know what she's doing is absurd. Take the time to sit and speak to her (as we did) and you'll soon learn how much she loves her animals. She's been breeding goldies for more than 50 years, of course she has a lot of dogs around.
> 
> I have since seen a lot of this "Dancing Gate is a puppy mill" and general dog snobbery in the years since we got ours. Do your own research, take the time to speak to Joy at Dancing Gate about her dogs and her breeding history and then make up your own mind.




I totally agree with the above. We bough our Golden Retriever from Joy, and he is a lovely boy.


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## woody1975

gregormci said:


> I got a reply from Dogs West.
> Apparently this afternoon Joy Smith handed in her resignation as a member of Dogs West, effective immediately, this means that Dogs West cannot take any action against her.
> -very smart on Mrs Smiths part i reckon.
> 
> anyway, i don't know if that means that she is legal able to sell pups now but lets hope she has now stopped!


I believe she has changed her trading name and is registered to her daughter. I believe she is still located in Southern River


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