# Golden Saint Puppy wanted



## Ollie2StLucia

Hi,
I have seen only one litter of 5 Golden Saint puppies anywhere in the past year. Does anyone know where there might be a possibility of finding one? Thanks.


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## SRW

Ollie2StLucia said:


> Hi,
> I have seen only one litter of 5 Golden Saint puppies anywhere in the past year. Does anyone know where there might be a possibility of finding one? Thanks.


If "Golden Saint" means Golden Retriever / St Bernard cross, you should find a Mutt Forum and inquire there.


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## CAROLINA MOM

You will not find a Breeder listing for the mixed breed dog you're looking for.

Do a search on Petfinder.com, enter the Breed mix, listings with dogs in area shelters will come up you can contact.


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## FurdogDad

Do they each come with their own little mini keg?


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## livduse

Ollie2StLucia said:


> Hi,
> I have seen only one litter of 5 Golden Saint puppies anywhere in the past year. Does anyone know where there might be a possibility of finding one? Thanks.


No reputable breeder would produce “golden saints”. If you want a mixed breed dog, I would encourage you to adopt a dog instead of supporting irresponsible breeders.


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## Hildae

Reputable breeders don't produce mixes. That is the kind of dog you'll have find on craigslist or perhaps in a pound. Good luck. (If you find one, please get pet insurance immediately.)


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## DogParentofOne

I’m not sure what a “ Golden Saint “ is, but if it’s a cross breed, then the only place you’d find those are at a shelter or Craigslist


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## JerseyChris

Thread is going about what I expected


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## Ollie2StLucia

Hello all and thanks for your replies,
I understand these dogs are only “oops” as first generation. That’s how I got my current Golden Saint. However, they are a recognized “designer dog” (I hate that term) being no different than a Goldendoodle or Bernedoodle or any other number of popular mixes today. While I am not a geneticist or breeder of any kind except my own kids, I think a Golden Saint bred to a Golden Saint would produce another Golden Saint of 50% Golden Retriever and 50% Saint Bernard. While these dogs are really mutts, they are no different in quality than Goldendoodles which are bred over and over. Just as a Goldendoodle is not a pedigreed dog does not mean it is any less desirable. And no, they do not come with their own little keg. That was something the painter of that famous picture decided to add to the dog because he thought it was cute and it is not based in reality at all as to what working St Bernards do. So, to clarify. What I would be looking for is a 2nd generation breeder of Golden Saints. Again, my question, does anyone know of anyone?


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## SRW

Ollie2StLucia said:


> However, they are a recognized “designer dog” (I hate that term) being no different than a Goldendoodle or Bernedoodle or any other number of popular mixes today.


Exactly, and why are _______doodle litters bred?


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## Ollie2StLucia

I don’t understand your reply.


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## Hildae

Ollie2StLucia said:


> I don’t understand your reply.


Intentionally bred mixes are not considered ethical here on this forum. "Designer breed" isn't a thing, they are just mixes. It is not a supported activity on this forum for people to intentionally create mixes. Understand that this doesn't mean that folks here hate mixed dogs, that isn't the case, no one blames the dogs and many here probably have or have had a mix at some point. In short, you won't likely be getting any recommendations from the folks here on how to find a mixed breed puppy.


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## Ollie2StLucia

Thanks. That explains the attitude and I will look elsewhere.


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## SRW

Ollie2StLucia said:


> I don’t understand your reply.


The answer is money.


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## FurdogDad

Ollie2StLucia said:


> Hello all and thanks for your replies,
> I understand these dogs are only “oops” as first generation. That’s how I got my current Golden Saint. However, they are a recognized “designer dog” (I hate that term) being no different than a Goldendoodle or Bernedoodle or any other number of popular mixes today. While I am not a geneticist or breeder of any kind except my own kids, I think a Golden Saint bred to a Golden Saint would produce another Golden Saint of 50% Golden Retriever and 50% Saint Bernard. While these dogs are really mutts, they are no different in quality than Goldendoodles which are bred over and over. Just as a Goldendoodle is not a pedigreed dog does not mean it is any less desirable. And no, they do not come with their own little keg. That was something the painter of that famous picture decided to add to the dog because he thought it was cute and it is not based in reality at all as to what working St Bernards do. So, to clarify. What I would be looking for is a 2nd generation breeder of Golden Saints. Again, my question, does anyone know of anyone?


Wow!! I thought St. Bernards all had little kegs around their necks....if I was buried in an avalanche for a while and rescued, I'd definitely be ready for a stiff drink......


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## Tagrenine

I wanted to address your response greasing genetics. Not even a first generation cross is guaranteed to be 50% of each breed. Because of genetic recombination, the puppy could be more St. Bernard or more Golden. If you cross two first generations, then you’re even less likely to get anything close to 50%. Some could be nearly 80%+ golden and others will be much more St. Bernard.


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## SRW

Boxers Rule


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## FurdogDad

They don't have mini kegs either....


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## GoldenDude

I saw the movie. That St Bernard ate that woman's car.


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## LJack

Food for thought...

It sounds like you love your current mix breed dog. As many of us do, we tend to want another just like our favorite or heart dog.

I am a breeder of Goldens and here is what I will say, it just doesn’t happen that way even within the stabilized traits of a breed with hundreds of years of consistency bred in. I currently have 5 dogs that I can trace back to the founder of the breed. A pair (mom and a daughter) and then trio (a grandma, mom and daughter). Even within these dogs that are not only the same throughly established breed but also family, they are far from the same dog. Yes they are all wonderfully Golden but not identical. Had I had that as the ideal (the dogs I bred would be identical), I would be sorely disappointed.

Now take two random breeds from very different backgrounds (hunting and working in this case) to make puppies and that variation will not just be in physical traits but in temperament and behavior as well.

Add to this the fact that purposeful mix breeders have to source their dogs from risky places such as back yard breeders, pet stores and commercial kennels (mills), these dogs have a high risk for health problems.

The people purposely doing this want money and rarely care about anything other than profit. They get people interested in a fake breed (creating a breed is a process that takes decades, with very specific steps) with a cute marketing name, misrepresentation of facts and usually slick websites. Take time to educate yourself through trusted sources, not random websites. AKC, National breed clubs (Golden Retriever Club of America), and OFA are a couple of good ones.

I would recommend looking at your current mix breed dog and make a list of the traits that make this dog so great for you and your family. Then compare this list to breed descriptions on AKC or National clubs for each breed like the GRCA. Once you find a match, find a responsible preservation breeder in that breed that competes the appropriate health certifications and perhaps competes in conformation, obedience, hunt or any other breed specific discipline.


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## livduse

Ollie2StLucia said:


> Hello all and thanks for your replies,
> I understand these dogs are only “oops” as first generation. That’s how I got my current Golden Saint. However, they are a recognized “designer dog” (I hate that term) being no different than a Goldendoodle or Bernedoodle or any other number of popular mixes today. While I am not a geneticist or breeder of any kind except my own kids, I think a Golden Saint bred to a Golden Saint would produce another Golden Saint of 50% Golden Retriever and 50% Saint Bernard. While these dogs are really mutts, they are no different in quality than Goldendoodles which are bred over and over. Just as a Goldendoodle is not a pedigreed dog does not mean it is any less desirable. And no, they do not come with their own little keg. That was something the painter of that famous picture decided to add to the dog because he thought it was cute and it is not based in reality at all as to what working St Bernards do. So, to clarify. What I would be looking for is a 2nd generation breeder of Golden Saints. Again, my question, does anyone know of anyone?


Exactly, this is like buying a poodle mix. You are looking for a poorly bred mutt bred without health, temperament, or structure in mind. No responsible breeder would ever produce doodles, "golden saints", etc. There are plenty of mixed breed dogs and even puppies in shelters in need of a loving home. If you buy a mixed breed from a breeder though, you are undoubtably supporting an irresponsible breeder and in turn getting a dog that will have an unpredictable temperament, likely poor health, and bad structure.


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## Rockalicious

LJack said:


> Food for thought...
> 
> It sounds like you love your current mix breed dog. As many of us do, we tend to want another just like our favorite or heart dog.
> 
> I am a breeder of Goldens and here is what I will say, it just doesn’t happen that way even within the stabilized traits of a breed with hundreds of years of consistency bred in. I currently have 5 dogs that I can trace back to the founder of the breed. A pair (mom and a daughter) and then trio (a grandma, mom and daughter). Even within these dogs that are not only the same throughly established breed but also family, they are far from the same dog. Yes they are all wonderfully Golden but not identical. Had I had that as the ideal (the dogs I bred would be identical), I would be sorely disappointed.
> 
> Now take two random breeds from very different backgrounds (hunting and working in this case) to make puppies and that variation will not just be in physical traits but in temperament and behavior as well.
> 
> Add to this the fact that purposeful mix breeders have to source their dogs from risky places such as back yard breeders, pet stores and commercial kennels (mills), these dogs have a high risk for health problems.
> 
> The people purposely doing this want money and rarely care about anything other than profit. They get people interested in a fake breed (creating a breed is a process that takes decades, with very specific steps) with a cute marketing name, misrepresentation of facts and usually slick websites. Take time to educate yourself through trusted sources, not random websites. AKC, National breed clubs (Golden Retriever Club of America), and OFA are a couple of good ones.
> 
> I would recommend looking at your current mix breed dog and make a list of the traits that make this dog so great for you and your family. Then compare this list to breed descriptions on AKC or National clubs for each breed like the GRCA. Once you find a match, find a responsible preservation breeder in that breed that competes the appropriate health certifications and perhaps competes in conformation, obedience, hunt or any other breed specific discipline.


This was a thoughtful and informative response, thank you. I understand people's objections to purposefully breeding mixed-breeds, and the inherent problems in doing so. And I understand everyone's love of goldens. However, I thought some of the replies were unnecessarily shaming and snarky, and appreciated your reasoned approach to the question.


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## SRW

Rockalicious said:


> I thought some of the replies were unnecessarily shaming and snarky


I thought mine was just right.


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## Prism Goldens

Rockalicious said:


> This was a thoughtful and informative response, thank you. I understand people's objections to purposefully breeding mixed-breeds, and the inherent problems in doing so. And I understand everyone's love of goldens. However, I thought some of the replies were unnecessarily shaming and snarky, and appreciated your reasoned approach to the question.


well, considering this is not a mixed breed forum but a Golden forum- it could have been far worse. No ethical breeder of any breed would deliberately produce this mutt whose cross purpose in founding breeds couldn't even have the excuse of 'better at' anything.


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## Rockalicious

Prism Goldens said:


> well, considering this is not a mixed breed forum but a Golden forum- it could have been far worse. No ethical breeder of any breed would deliberately produce this mutt whose cross purpose in founding breeds couldn't even have the excuse of 'better at' anything.


Wasn't trying to argue, I was just saying that people can nicely share the reasons why the OP was unlikely to find recommendations here for a mixed-breed pup, rather than chastise her for wanting to find one.

I agree that people who produce "designer breeds" are generally not high on the ethical food chain, and that it's mostly done for money. I still don't understand why doodles are so popular, other than that some people don't like dog hair. Of course, far too many people believe doodles never shed or that they are all hypoallergenic, and have never taken a genetics class, but I digress. I just liked LJack's suggestion of writing down all of the characteristics of her first pup that she liked, and then trying to match that up with a breed of dog. 

For those of you who do breed, a question: Do you believe that a responsible breeder/breeders could hypothetically produce healthy "designer breed" dogs? I would suspect that a majority of doodle breeders couldn't care less about health clearances for their dogs, but is there a reason why a responsible breeder of goldens and a responsible breeder of poodles couldn't produce healthy doodles? Put aside for the moment, the knee-jerk reaction of, "But why would any responsible breeder WANT to do that?" I'm legitimately interested in hearing responses from people, since I don't know anything about breeding. Is the problem that doodles are so relatively new, and responsible breeders of doodles so rare, that you'd have to rely on too much inbreeding? Just curious.


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## pawsnpaca

Rockalicious said:


> Do you believe that a responsible breeder/breeders could hypothetically produce healthy "designer breed" dogs?


This is an interesting question that I suspect might provoke quite a bit of discussion. You may want to start a thread with this as the topic. If nothing else, it might make it easier for readers to find that conversation in the future... I'm curious to hear the response myself...


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## sevans

Ollie2StLucia said:


> Hello all and thanks for your replies,
> I understand these dogs are only “oops” as first generation. That’s how I got my current Golden Saint. However, they are a recognized “designer dog” (I hate that term) being no different than a Goldendoodle or Bernedoodle or any other number of popular mixes today. While I am not a geneticist or breeder of any kind except my own kids, I think a Golden Saint bred to a Golden Saint would produce another Golden Saint of 50% Golden Retriever and 50% Saint Bernard. While these dogs are really mutts, they are no different in quality than Goldendoodles which are bred over and over. Just as a Goldendoodle is not a pedigreed dog does not mean it is any less desirable. And no, they do not come with their own little keg. That was something the painter of that famous picture decided to add to the dog because he thought it was cute and it is not based in reality at all as to what working St Bernards do. So, to clarify. What I would be looking for is a 2nd generation breeder of Golden Saints. Again, my question, does anyone know of anyone?


I doubt you will find many people on this forum who would support the suggestion that Golden-doodles” etc. are acceptable just because people keep doing it. I cannot imagine anyone who owns a Golden with clearances who would outcross to a St. Bernard (or to any other breed) intentionally. The same holds true for repuatable breeders of St. Bernards.This leaves animals who do NOT have clearances being oucrossed. The likelihood that you will end up with the genetic weaknesses of BOTH breeds in those litters is exponentially increased. Second generation breedings of these mixes increases the risk still further.


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## Prism Goldens

Rockalicious said:


> For those of you who do breed, a question: Do you believe that a responsible breeder/breeders could hypothetically produce healthy "designer breed" dogs? I would suspect that a majority of doodle breeders couldn't care less about health clearances for their dogs, but is there a reason why a responsible breeder of goldens and a responsible breeder of poodles couldn't produce healthy doodles? Put aside for the moment, the knee-jerk reaction of, "But why would any responsible breeder WANT to do that?" I'm legitimately interested in hearing responses from people, since I don't know anything about breeding. Is the problem that doodles are so relatively new, and responsible breeders of doodles so rare, that you'd have to rely on too much inbreeding? Just curious.


The population of doodles with full clearances on both involved breeds is probably miniscule. 

Standard Poodle- hips, eyes and at least one of these: heart, thyroid or SA exam by dermatologist, 
Minature Poodle- hips, eyes, patellas and PRA DNA test
Toy- PRA, patellas and eyes, 
add in Goldens- hips, elbows, cardiologist heart and yearly eyes. 
So with that miniscule population, the COI would get crazy inbred. 
And consider that absolutely NO ethical breeder of each would be keen on this, you have the issue of breeding stock coming from BYBs, HVBs and other unethically breeding folks. 
So no pedigrees that are traditionally safe ones for the other things like longevity, health, etc. 
Then add in that doodles of any variety have a weirdo temperament, this mythical breeder would have to be willing to A. keep longer, and B. cull. 
What is the type one would breed towards?
Too many questions and too few decent answers to imagine one could ever clear the hurdle of the issues.


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## Megora

Rockalicious said:


> Wasn't trying to argue, I was just saying that people can nicely share the reasons why the OP was unlikely to find recommendations here for a mixed-breed pup, rather than chastise her for wanting to find one.


First, the forum does not make it easy to identify which country a poster resides in. That should not necessarily make a difference, I know, but it does. My first thought is that some countries are overrun with puppy mills of the worst kind and it is a moot argument trying to tell somebody to look for a breeder that does all clearances, etc.

Secondly, many people today have no understanding about what makes a breed.... a recognized and recognizable breed. This is sadly a severe lack of education and effects of accelerated societal conditioning, including in the US. You can see some of this conditioning with people repeatedly saying they don't want a show dog - while looking for a purebred puppy.

People state they do not want a poodle because they don't like the poodly look - but many people have never seen a well bred and well groomed poodle in person. Just like a majority of the breeds I see at dog shows any time I go.... the average person in people's neighborhoods have NEVER SEEN any of these dog breeds in person. Heck, even I have never seen some dog breeds in person... despite being to many dog shows over the years.

I was eyeing a gorgeous dog the other day - this is a Finnish Lapphund. And it's a dog that won the breed at the show I was at. Adult dog. Slightly smaller than goldens (about 19-21"). And just very puffy and cute. Picture of that dog way way way below.

The handler for one of these dogs chuckled when I asked him WHAT THE DOG BREED WAS. Told me that most people assume they are chow mixes, despite them having a completely different temperament + don't have the squashed nose/face.

Meaning that most people when they see purebred dogs in person.... assume it's a mixed breed, just because mutts are so commonplace today.

Designer breeds came about because people got mutts that they really loved and wanted to replicate the breeding behind those dogs to create the same result. The problem is.... most rescues "assume" that a mixed breed or mutt that comes in has a very simple 1st generation mixture behind it. Which they tell the people who buy those mixed breeds from the rescue. Depending on what mix is identified, the mutt may sell for more money and/or be worth more money. IE, a very simple mix of a golden retriever and another breed is worth more money than dogs who have had no purebred behind them for the last 10-12 generations.

Means that somebody who bought a St. Bernard x Golden mix may think that's the magic formula behind their dog, despite the concept of breeding a 130-200 stud to a 50-65 pound female is horrific.... just like that girlie carrying HUGE pups and needing a c-section absolutely is horrific.

In reality, a person may have a mixed breed that is actually made up of many different breeds and mixes X golden retriever. Some may not even have golden in them.

Thirdly - I think people should keep in mind how much a gamble breeding even purebred dogs may be for a new breeder, or even an experienced breeder. I know of people who are trying to "recreate" a perfect dog that was everything for them (won titles in every possible sport, etc) by using certain lines and combinations.... and they have NOT struck gold, despite trying over and over.

Other breeders may see a stud dogs head or expression or like how that dog won every time he showed.... and they use him in a breeding... and all the pups might be duds, or may have inherited questionable temperaments from that sire. You never know. Fact is though that breeding is not simple math - 1 + 1 = 2.

Simple answer to that original poster is possibly to consider other breeds which have the attributes they liked in the mixed breed they had. Other breeds may not be the exact same thing they had.... but it's a better gamble than trying to blindly toss random ingredients in a pot and hope for the best (ie designer breeding).


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## SRW

Megora said:


> My first thought is that some countries are overrun with puppy mills of the worst kind and it is a moot argument trying to tell somebody to look for a breeder that does all clearances, etc.


Maybe some countries but defiantly not Ukraine.


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## Taz Monkey

nO


Ollie2StLucia said:


> Hello all and thanks for your replies,
> I understand these dogs are only “oops” as first generation. That’s how I got my current Golden Saint. However, they are a recognized “designer dog” (I hate that term) being no different than a Goldendoodle or Bernedoodle or any other number of popular mixes today. While I am not a geneticist or breeder of any kind except my own kids, I think a Golden Saint bred to a Golden Saint would produce another Golden Saint of 50% Golden Retriever and 50% Saint Bernard. While these dogs are really mutts, they are no different in quality than Goldendoodles which are bred over and over. Just as a Goldendoodle is not a pedigreed dog does not mean it is any less desirable. And no, they do not come with their own little keg. That was something the painter of that famous picture decided to add to the dog because he thought it was cute and it is not based in reality at all as to what working St Bernards do. So, to clarify. What I would be looking for is a 2nd generation breeder of Golden Saints. Again, my question, does anyone know of anyone?
> [/QUOTE





Ollie2StLucia said:


> Hello all and thanks for your replies,
> I understand these dogs are only “oops” as first generation. That’s how I got my current Golden Saint. However, they are a recognized “designer dog” (I hate that term) being no different than a Goldendoodle or Bernedoodle or any other number of popular mixes today. While I am not a geneticist or breeder of any kind except my own kids, I think a Golden Saint bred to a Golden Saint would produce another Golden Saint of 50% Golden Retriever and 50% Saint Bernard. While these dogs are really mutts, they are no different in quality than Goldendoodles which are bred over and over. Just as a Goldendoodle is not a pedigreed dog does not mean it is any less desirable. And no, they do not come with their own little keg. That was something the painter of that famous picture decided to add to the dog because he thought it was cute and it is not based in reality at all as to what working St Bernards do. So, to clarify. What I would be looking for is a 2nd generation breeder of Golden Saints. Again, my question, does anyone know of anyone?


You won't find anyone here who is okay with doodles either...


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## DevWind

Ollie2StLucia said:


> Hello all and thanks for your replies,
> I understand these dogs are only “oops” as first generation. That’s how I got my current Golden Saint. However, they are a recognized “designer dog” (I hate that term) being no different than a Goldendoodle or Bernedoodle or any other number of popular mixes today. While I am not a geneticist or breeder of any kind except my own kids, I think a Golden Saint bred to a Golden Saint would produce another Golden Saint of 50% Golden Retriever and 50% Saint Bernard. While these dogs are really mutts, they are no different in quality than Goldendoodles which are bred over and over. Just as a Goldendoodle is not a pedigreed dog does not mean it is any less desirable. And no, they do not come with their own little keg. That was something the painter of that famous picture decided to add to the dog because he thought it was cute and it is not based in reality at all as to what working St Bernards do. So, to clarify. What I would be looking for is a 2nd generation breeder of Golden Saints. Again, my question, does anyone know of anyone?


Not necessarily how genetics works. They can take on all the good and/or bad traits of one breed over the other. Desirability is in the eyes of the beholder.


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## 3goldens2keep

Ollie2StLucia said:


> Hello all and thanks for your replies,
> I understand these dogs are only “oops” as first generation. That’s how I got my current Golden Saint. However, they are a recognized “designer dog” (I hate that term) being no different than a Goldendoodle or Bernedoodle or any other number of popular mixes today. While I am not a geneticist or breeder of any kind except my own kids, I think a Golden Saint bred to a Golden Saint would produce another Golden Saint of 50% Golden Retriever and 50% Saint Bernard. While these dogs are really mutts, they are no different in quality than Goldendoodles which are bred over and over. Just as a Goldendoodle is not a pedigreed dog does not mean it is any less desirable. And no, they do not come with their own little keg. That was something the painter of that famous picture decided to add to the dog because he thought it was cute and it is not based in reality at all as to what working St Bernards do. So, to clarify. What I would be looking for is a 2nd generation breeder of Golden Saints. Again, my question, does anyone know of anyone?


NO!


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## Ollie2StLucia

That was a thoughtful post and is appreciated. I have done all the things you have suggested and have decided that a Golden Retriever has the characteristics that are closest to what I like. 
This is the 2nd Golden Saint I’ve had, the first being about 30 years ago when they were still “mutts”. I am very cognizant that some if not all pedigreed dogs were bred from mixes of dogs to get the desired traits and then selectively bred over time to sustain those traits, Golden Retrievers are included in this, as reported by the AKC on the history of Golden Retrievers. As in families, no two children are alike and in litters, no two dogs are alike. There are personality traits that are similar in breeds and families and environment (training) certainly is important but no two are the same. Both of my Golden Saints came from pedigreed St Bernard fathers and pedigreed Golden Retriever mothers. I don’t think any responsible pedigreed owner of these two breeds would want to breed a Golden Saint intentionally and that is why they are so rare. They only exist to my knowledge as ”oops”. That was the case with both of my dogs. The male and female lived on adjoining farms where there were pedigreed animals. The female Retriever had 7 pups and had to have a Caesarian. Neither owner was happy and I certainly understand.
But just as the Golden Retriever was bred with a Water Spaniel and then selectively bred again to create today’s version of the Golden Retriever, sometimes “oops” happen and turn out to be a good thing. The traits that I like are present in both dogs and if you read in depth about Golden Saints, the gentle and non-agressive personality is present across the board. My dog had training for 4 months with a trainer that has had grand champion Golden Retrievers and many years of showing and competing various Golden Retrievers. He had never seen a Golden Saint but he and all of his staff have been impressed with the dog. They have a kennel where I board him occasionally while I travel and every time the remarks are the same at what a special dog he is. Complete strangers stop their cars and remark how beautiful he is and people at dog parks are impressed that he plays well with all dogs and backs away from any kind of tussle. At any meeting, social gathering, restaurant or outing, he sits quietly at my feet and waits patiently until I am ready to go. I would put my dog’s behavior up to anybody’s as the quality of the dog has been appreciated over and over. 
As far as the physical problems, all dogs pedigreed or not have tendencies toward certain health problems. I like big dogs and they all have a tendency to have hip dsyplasia. To think your pedigreed Golden will be immune from health problems is not realistic. Again, check the writing on the Golden’s potential health problems listed in the AKC. My other Golden Saint had a happy and health problem free life until she was 10 right up to the last days of her life when she died a natural death. She lived the normal life span of many large dogs. 
My current dog has had many vet visits as I’ve traveled overseas with him and there are rigid entry requirements for other countries. All the vets everywhere have said he is a very healthy dog with a great disposition. What more could any of us want for our pet? 
To disparage a Goldendoodle or any of the hybrid dogs to being not wanted by many people or inferior to a pedigreed dog is also not realistic. Many of the comments seem the same as those of racist and prejudicial people. I find this very interesting! I stated early in this post that my best alternative is a Golden Retriever. I like your dog. Why can’t you like mine? 
PS: In case you can’t tell, I have done extensive reading and research from a variety of sources on virtually all large dogs. I would suggest you do the same as it is enlightening and enjoyable to learn about many kinds of dogs.


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## SRW

Ollie2StLucia said:


> This is the 2nd Golden Saint I’ve had, the first being about 30 years ago when they were still “mutts”.


Now, 30 years later, they are still mutts. Want to guess what they will be 30 years from now?


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## Megora

Ollie2StLucia said:


> Both of my Golden Saints came from pedigreed St Bernard fathers and pedigreed Golden Retriever mothers. I don’t think any responsible pedigreed owner of these two breeds would want to breed a Golden Saint intentionally....


Nobody who has any love of any breed or their dogs would do anything like that intentionally, because it could be dangerous for the mom to carry huge pups like that.

It is morally WRONG for somebody to intentionally breed dogs in that fashion.

W/R to the origins of purebred breeds, I suggest you study up on what AKC expects of new breeds prior to acceptance into the AKC. This includes studying up on AKC's stance on hybrid breeding (where instead of producing a purebred breed that breeds true, you have people constantly mixing 1-2 breeds in order to product a mutt).

There are many breeds that were either extinct or at that point, who were brought back by introducing existing breeds into the breeding pool... but they do not continue to do so. They have to prove that the dogs they breed are breeding true after a number of generations prior to being recognized as an actual breed.

Golden retrievers as a breed took well over 100 years to develop, and I hope you understand that the very beginnings of this breed is probably something that could not be done again with modern sensibilities.

Otherwise any "designer breeds" - are just mutts. They get fancy names and compliments because somebody generally wants to pad the value of puppies who might otherwise not be worth much. 

You have not shared any pictures of your dogs and I would probably ask why that is if these are so wonderful? It may be people could really tell you possibly what's behind your dog's breeding and point you in a good direction. I'm still horrified at your casual preference for a breeder that would breed a giant breed with a much smaller breed... on purpose.

In general, I would probably suggest you look into breeds like clumbers - many who remind me a ton of St. Bernards, without the size. Since you are not in the US, it is possible you have access to other breeds which are not common in the US.


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## LJack

All of that was wonderful anecdotes about your personal dogs. One key component you mentioned but then clearly try to refute was this -


Ollie2StLucia said:


> I am very cognizant that some if not all pedigreed dogs were bred from mixes of dogs to get the desired traits and then selectively bred over time to sustain those traits, Golden Retrievers are included in this, as reported by the AKC on the history of Golden Retrievers.


Yes, most breeds start as a mix, but with a goal and following the steps for recognition. The baseline of a breed is that it breeds true. There is no Golden Saint breed. There is no standard, they wouldn’t breed true.

Our breed founder(s) had a goal, kept meticulous records and proofed their dogs to the goal. But you will notice that we have a Golden Retriever breed, not a Yelloweed Spantriever. They breed true, meet the standard and can be proven in competition (confirmation, hunt, obedience, etc.) and have pass the rigorous process to be recognized by the National or International Kennel Clubs.

Do you really think a professional getting paid by a client really would say anything other than complementary words? It’s kind of like children, no one with a lick of sense is going to tell someone anything but nice things about their kids.

I know I am not a trainer but still find something positive to say about any dog I meet. It is the very divine nature of dogs in general that nearly all are wonderful in some way. That however doesn’t make them a breed.

This forum loves dogs, all dogs. The pushback you get is not about your dog. It is about health risky breeding practices. You mention with what seems a call to authority you dog’s parents where registered. That is literally no indication of quality or health. Do you know if either parent had the breed appropriate health certifications? Do you know if either where independently evaluated for structure, temperament or breed specific qualities?

I would challenge you to find a single Poodle mix breeder, Saint Bernard mix breeder or Golden Retriever mix breeder that has the appropriate health certifications on OFA for the parent breeds involved, that would be enlightening research.

Most of here have likely had and loved deeply a mix-breed dog at some point. We all think we have the best dog ever and guess what, we are all right. When it comes to breeding there should be a high bar for health. And yes statistically well bred dogs with health certifications are less risky.


----------



## ceegee

Ollie2StLucia said:


> (...) As far as the physical problems, all dogs pedigreed or not have tendencies toward certain health problems. I like big dogs and they all have a tendency to have hip dsyplasia. To think your pedigreed Golden will be immune from health problems is not realistic. Again, check the writing on the Golden’s potential health problems listed in the AKC. My other Golden Saint had a happy and health problem free life until she was 10 right up to the last days of her life when she died a natural death. She lived the normal life span of many large dogs.
> My current dog has had many vet visits as I’ve traveled overseas with him and there are rigid entry requirements for other countries. All the vets everywhere have said he is a very healthy dog with a great disposition. What more could any of us want for our pet?
> To disparage a Goldendoodle or any of the hybrid dogs to being not wanted by many people or inferior to a pedigreed dog is also not realistic. Many of the comments seem the same as those of racist and prejudicial people. I find this very interesting! I stated early in this post that my best alternative is a Golden Retriever. I like your dog. Why can’t you like mine?
> PS: In case you can’t tell, I have done extensive reading and research from a variety of sources on virtually all large dogs. I would suggest you do the same as it is enlightening and enjoyable to learn about many kinds of dogs.


Nobody has said they don't like your dog. He sounds like a great dog and a great pet. I'm sure almost everyone here would love him if they met him. I think you may have missed the point. It's not about the dogs. It's about the people who breed them.

The point is that you're trying to compare apples to oranges. You can't compare a back yard breeder producing hybrid dogs, accidentally or deliberately, to a responsible breeder producing purebred dogs, who has decades of experience with the breed and does extensive health-testing. You just can't. It's not the same thing. Health testing doesn't just mean taking the dog to the vet. It means testing generations of dogs for hip and elbow dysplasia. It means doing eye examinations and heart examinations. It means doing a host of genetic tests to eliminate many of the genetic conditions to which different breeds are prone.

The responses you're seeing here have nothing to do with racism (!) or prejudice. It's a simple fact that a responsible breeder knows the breed inside out, has health-tested generations of dogs precisely to minimize the likelihood of dysplasia and other problems, and chooses breeding animals with a view to preserving the characteristics of the breed. People who deliberately produce doodles and other mixes don't do any of that. No responsible breeder would ever sell a dog to someone who wants to produce a mix. They just wouldn't. They don't want to see their decades of hard work and effort abused for profit. So the only sources of breeding dogs for hybrid breeders are puppy farms or imports or breeders who don't care about quality and who don't health-test their breeding stock. It's expensive to breed responsibly. The problem everyone on this forum has with the doodle and hybrid breeders is that they charge the same price or more for their pups as responsible breeders charge for their pups, but don't put in one-tenth of the effort or investment. For a responsible pedigree dog breeder, breeding is a mission. For most hybrid dog breeders, it's a money grab.

So it's not about the dogs. There is no "racism" against hybrid dogs. Many of the people here on the forum, including me, either own or have owned hybrid dogs. Nobody is blaming the dogs. They're not "prejudiced". The problem people here have is with the hybrid breeders and their lack of ethics. Hybrid breeders play on the fact that uneducated consumers want designer dogs, and they set their prices accordingly. I know people who have literally paid three times more for their doodles, with their high-maintenance coats and high-strung personalities, than I paid for my amazing purebred golden retriever with his lovely wash-and-wear coat and extreme biddability.

These days, when you buy a high-priced hybrid dog, you're implicitly supporting poor breeding practices. It's something to think about.


----------



## FurdogDad

LJack said:


> All of that was wonderful anecdotes about your personal dogs. One key component you mentioned but then clearly try to refute was this -
> 
> 
> Yes, most breeds start as a mix, but with a goal and following the steps for recognition. The baseline of a breed is that it breeds true. There is no Golden Saint breed. There is no standard, they wouldn’t breed true.
> 
> Our breed founder(s) had a goal, kept meticulous records and proofed their dogs to the goal. But you will notice that we have a Golden Retriever breed, not a Yelloweed Spantriever. They breed true, meet the standard and can be proven in competition (confirmation, hunt, obedience, etc.) and have pass the rigorous process to be recognized by the National or International Kennel Clubs.
> 
> Do you really think a professional getting paid by a client really would say anything other than complementary words? It’s kind of like children, no one with a lick of sense is going to tell someone anything but nice things about their kids.
> 
> I know I am not a trainer but still find something positive to say about any dog I meet. It is the very divine nature of dogs in general that nearly all are wonderful in some way. That however doesn’t make them a breed.
> 
> This forum loves dogs, all dogs. The pushback you get is not about your dog. It is about health risky breeding practices. You mention with what seems a call to authority you dog’s parents where registered. That is literally no indication of quality or health. Do you know if either parent had the breed appropriate health certifications? Do you know if either where independently evaluated for structure, temperament or breed specific qualities?
> 
> I would challenge you to find a single Poodle mix breeder, Saint Bernard mix breeder or Golden Retriever mix breeder that has the appropriate health certifications on OFA for the parent breeds involved, that would be enlightening research.
> 
> Most of here have likely had and loved deeply a mix-breed dog at some point. We all think we have the best dog ever and guess what, we are all right. When it comes to breeding there should be a high bar for health. And yes statistically well bred dogs with health certifications are less risky.


I have to say, Yelloweed Spantriever sounds very exotic.....next time someone asks "What kind of dog is that?"........


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## Ollie2StLucia

Megora said:


> Nobody who has any love of any breed or their dogs would do anything like that intentionally, because it could be dangerous for the mom to carry huge pups like that.
> 
> It is morally WRONG for somebody to intentionally breed dogs in that fashion.
> 
> W/R to the origins of purebred breeds, I suggest you study up on what AKC expects of new breeds prior to acceptance into the AKC. This includes studying up on AKC's stance on hybrid breeding (where instead of producing a purebred breed that breeds true, you have people constantly mixing 1-2 breeds in order to product a mutt).
> 
> There are many breeds that were either extinct or at that point, who were brought back by introducing existing breeds into the breeding pool... but they do not continue to do so. They have to prove that the dogs they breed are breeding true after a number of generations prior to being recognized as an actual breed.
> 
> Golden retrievers as a breed took well over 100 years to develop, and I hope you understand that the very beginnings of this breed is probably something that could not be done again with modern sensibilities.
> 
> Otherwise any "designer breeds" - are just mutts. They get fancy names and compliments because somebody generally wants to pad the value of puppies who might otherwise not be worth much.
> 
> You have not shared any pictures of your dogs and I would probably ask why that is if these are so wonderful? It may be people could really tell you possibly what's behind your dog's breeding and point you in a good direction. I'm still horrified at your casual preference for a breeder that would breed a giant breed with a much smaller breed... on purpose.
> 
> In general, I would probably suggest you look into breeds like clumbers - many who remind me a ton of St. Bernards, without the size. Since you are not in the US, it is possible you have access to other breeds which are not common in the US.


I stated quite clearly that my dog was the result of an “oops” and was not purposefully bred and that both owners were upset. I also state that no one would do this intentionally. However, my question was concerning the availability of a Golden Saint being bred with a Golden Saint. 
I have learned a lot from these posts and have more learning to do. I agree with many of the points concerning the motivation of puppy mill breeders. While health certificates and background checks and responsible breeding for health are all important, there are no guarantees and sooner or later an animal or person will die. That part does not bother me as much as how the puppies were treated after they were born. Not all family breeders are greedy, non-caring owners.
I also agree that people are willing to pay a lot for designer dogs but you have to ask why they would. The dogs are popular for a reason and I don’t think it is mass marketing. 
I will share a picture if I can figure out how to do it of my current dog. I only have one of my first dog and it is a head shot but I will have to find it as it is from the 1980’s.

















https://www.goldenretrieverforum.co...892011/?hash=35ddca7e4f21a1b7aa1807d0d56268fahttps://www.goldenretrieverforum.co...892011/?hash=35ddca7e4f21a1b7aa1807d0d56268fa








I can’t find my other dog’s pic at present but the head was exactly the same but the coloring was more of a Golden. She was heavier at 135lb while my current dog above while not full grown at 17 months is 103lb. As stated, he plays very nicely with all dogs. Obviously, he could pull the toy in an instant away form the street dog my daughter adopted. My daughter has she dogs, a pedigreed, a hybrid and a mutt and loves them all the same.


----------



## Ollie2StLucia

LJack said:


> All of that was wonderful anecdotes about your personal dogs. One key component you mentioned but then clearly try to refute was this -
> 
> 
> Yes, most breeds start as a mix, but with a goal and following the steps for recognition. The baseline of a breed is that it breeds true. There is no Golden Saint breed. There is no standard, they wouldn’t breed true.
> 
> Our breed founder(s) had a goal, kept meticulous records and proofed their dogs to the goal. But you will notice that we have a Golden Retriever breed, not a Yelloweed Spantriever. They breed true, meet the standard and can be proven in competition (confirmation, hunt, obedience, etc.) and have pass the rigorous process to be recognized by the National or International Kennel Clubs.
> 
> Do you really think a professional getting paid by a client really would say anything other than complementary words? It’s kind of like children, no one with a lick of sense is going to tell someone anything but nice things about their kids.
> 
> I know I am not a trainer but still find something positive to say about any dog I meet. It is the very divine nature of dogs in general that nearly all are wonderful in some way. That however doesn’t make them a breed.
> 
> This forum loves dogs, all dogs. The pushback you get is not about your dog. It is about health risky breeding practices. You mention with what seems a call to authority you dog’s parents where registered. That is literally no indication of quality or health. Do you know if either parent had the breed appropriate health certifications? Do you know if either where independently evaluated for structure, temperament or breed specific qualities?
> 
> I would challenge you to find a single Poodle mix breeder, Saint Bernard mix breeder or Golden Retriever mix breeder that has the appropriate health certifications on OFA for the parent breeds involved, that would be enlightening research.
> 
> Most of here have likely had and loved deeply a mix-breed dog at some point. We all think we have the best dog ever and guess what, we are all right. When it comes to breeding there should be a high bar for health. And yes statistically well bred dogs with health certifications are less risky.


As a teacher for more than 30 years and an active sponsor of youth groups there are plenty of times I tell it like it is to parents. Otherwise, there is no way for improvement. Same with trainers. But total strangers on the street or in a restaurant commenting without any solicitation is an entirely different matter. They have nothing to gain from complimenting a dog!


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## Ollie2StLucia

Megora said:


> Nobody who has any love of any breed or their dogs would do anything like that intentionally, because it could be dangerous for the mom to carry huge pups like that.
> 
> It is morally WRONG for somebody to intentionally breed dogs in that fashion.
> 
> W/R to the origins of purebred breeds, I suggest you study up on what AKC expects of new breeds prior to acceptance into the AKC. This includes studying up on AKC's stance on hybrid breeding (where instead of producing a purebred breed that breeds true, you have people constantly mixing 1-2 breeds in order to product a mutt).
> 
> There are many breeds that were either extinct or at that point, who were brought back by introducing existing breeds into the breeding pool... but they do not continue to do so. They have to prove that the dogs they breed are breeding true after a number of generations prior to being recognized as an actual breed.
> 
> Golden retrievers as a breed took well over 100 years to develop, and I hope you understand that the very beginnings of this breed is probably something that could not be done again with modern sensibilities.
> 
> Otherwise any "designer breeds" - are just mutts. They get fancy names and compliments because somebody generally wants to pad the value of puppies who might otherwise not be worth much.
> 
> You have not shared any pictures of your dogs and I would probably ask why that is if these are so wonderful? It may be people could really tell you possibly what's behind your dog's breeding and point you in a good direction. I'm still horrified at your casual preference for a breeder that would breed a giant breed with a much smaller breed... on purpose.
> 
> In general, I would probably suggest you look into breeds like clumbers - many who remind me a ton of St. Bernards, without the size. Since you are not in the US, it is possible you have access to other breeds which are not common in the US.


Please review all of my posts. I never suggested purposely breeding a Saint with a Golden and said no one would do it! But if 2 Golden Saints are already here and are bred, that is not the issue. I explained exactly how I got my current dog and my other dog was the same situation except the mother was a Saint Bernard and father, a Golden.


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## SRW

Ollie2StLucia said:


> I never suggested purposely breeding a Saint with a Golden and said no one would do it!


If there is a demand from you and others, yes they will. I bet they will even tell you it was an accident if that is what you want to hear.
Stop being part of the problem.


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## Hildae

SRW said:


> If there is a demand from you and others, yes they will. I bet they will even tell you it was an accident if that is what you want to hear.


That is true of BYBs. If they get a hint of someone wanting some particular mix, they'll try it for $$.


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## LJack

You’re right there is no guarantee on health, but by that argument you should stop wearing seatbelts too since they are no guarantee. 🤷‍♀️


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## Megora

Ollie2StLucia said:


> Please review all of my posts. I never suggested purposely breeding a Saint with a Golden and said no one would do it! But if 2 Golden Saints are already here and are bred, that is not the issue. I explained exactly how I got my current dog and my other dog was the same situation except the mother was a Saint Bernard and father, a Golden.


All ooopses should be neutered. 

They should not be bred. 

That is it.

Somebody making an oops and then deciding to breed oops to oops doesn't make anything else but a mistake.

Your dog reminds me a little bit of leonbergers. If you are looking for something that looks like that... maybe tilt that direction.

The temperament is not necessarily the same as goldens, however, there is no predictability of temperament from mixed breeds either. St. Bernards have had issues as a breed with temperaments so I would not really want a mix with a St. with poor breeding behind it. It's pretty risky in a very large animal.


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## Ollie2StLucia

Fyi, my “oops” is neutered and I visited the farm where I got him and the owners were adamant there would be no others. I have read about Leonbergers but the consensus on temperament is not as assuring to me as the consensus on Goldens. I do not know where the writers of info about Golden Saints got their info and it couldn’t have been that large of a pool as there are not just that many of them but however small that number is, all writings spoke about the wonderful personality and easy trainability of the Golden Saint. I’ve had only two but they both were/are exceptional dogs and it probably won’t happen but I would love to find another. “Oops” happen and if I happen upon another, I will gladly take my chances!


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## LJack

Ollie2StLucia said:


> I do not know where the writers of info about Golden Saints got their info and it couldn’t have been that large of a pool as there are not just that many of them but however small that number is, all writings spoke about the wonderful personality and easy trainability of the Golden Saint.


Based on the types of websites (I could find) this information appears on and the decided lack of ability to find credentials for the authors, it seems likely they have potentially never met one at all.

I would encourage you strongly to consider rescue if available in your are since you are drawn to mix-breed dogs. Yes they will still be health risky but the dogs need a home and you won’t be supporting irresponsible breeding practices.


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## DevWind

Ollie2StLucia said:


> I stated quite clearly that my dog was the result of an “oops” and was not purposefully bred and that both owners were upset. I also state that no one would do this intentionally. However, my question was concerning the availability of a Golden Saint being bred with a Golden Saint.
> I have learned a lot from these posts and have more learning to do. I agree with many of the points concerning the motivation of puppy mill breeders. While health certificates and background checks and responsible breeding for health are all important, there are no guarantees and sooner or later an animal or person will die. That part does not bother me as much as how the puppies were treated after they were born. Not all family breeders are greedy, non-caring owners.
> I also agree that people are willing to pay a lot for designer dogs but you have to ask why they would. The dogs are popular for a reason and I don’t think it is mass marketing.
> I will share a picture if I can figure out how to do it of my current dog. I only have one of my first dog and it is a head shot but I will have to find it as it is from the 1980’s.


So glad you've learned something! You're right. There are no guarantees of longevity. Testing definitely puts the odds in your favor though! I know that my puppies have very little to no chances of having genetic health issues. Goldens have some devastating ones. I'm not sure what you mean be "family breeders". If you mean the people who breed without testing, then they aren't doing right by the dogs. 

The reason "designer" breeds are so popular is that they are a status symbol. I've seen some very rich people brag about their brand new double doodle. They don't breed true at all. I know a golden doodle that looks like a giant flat coat.




Ollie2StLucia said:


> https://www.goldenretrieverforum.co...892011/?hash=35ddca7e4f21a1b7aa1807d0d56268fahttps://www.goldenretrieverforum.co...892011/?hash=35ddca7e4f21a1b7aa1807d0d56268fa
> I can’t find my other dog’s pic at present but the head was exactly the same but the coloring was more of a Golden. She was heavier at 135lb while my current dog above while not full grown at 17 months is 103lb. As stated, he plays very nicely with all dogs. Obviously, he could pull the toy in an instant away form the street dog my daughter adopted. My daughter has she dogs, a pedigreed, a hybrid and a mutt and loves them all the same.


He looks like a Newf to me. I hear they are nice dogs. I have 2 goldens and 2 mixed breeds. We love them all the same. I do have the closest bond with one of my goldens but it isn't his breed, it's the time we've spent together and his absolute, no holds barred love for me.


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## Rockalicious

Ollie2StLucia said:


> However, my question was concerning the availability of a Golden Saint being bred with a Golden Saint.


I read your post and your follow up comments, and there are some inconsistencies. First, you mentioned that both of your dogs "came from pedigreed St Bernard fathers and pedigreed Golden Retriever mothers." When people commented about the dangers of breeding a giant breed to a golden female, you then said that your current dog's mother was a Saint Bernard, and the father was a golden.

You've also said, "I don’t think any responsible pedigreed owner of these two breeds would want to breed a Golden Saint intentionally and that is why they are so rare." But you seem to be fine with people purposefully breeding a golden saint with a golden saint, and that is what people are responding negatively to, both the idea of purposely breeding a Golden to a Saint Bernard, AND a Golden Saint to a Golden Saint, and they have provided many legitimate reasons why both of these situations are ill-advised. Then your last comment said you'd love to find another "oops" litter. I don't think many people in this group would begrudge you adopting a puppy from an oops litter, if you happened to run across another one like your first two. The objection is to your argument that there's nothing wrong with purposeful breeding of a mix - either essentially an F1 cross or F2.

I myself have learned a lot in these posts about how difficult it is to "create" a new breed if your concern is the health of the dogs you produce (which it should be) and not financial incentives. In terms of mixes, in general, suppliers will keep producing as long as they are making more money selling than it costs them to produce, and this seems to be the case with most designer breeders. So I can understand peoples' objections to those who support the trend of designer dogs. Sometimes people who bought from a responsible GR breeder have ended up losing their pups young to genetic (or at least partially genetic) causes like cancer, while other people who bought a doodle from an irresponsible designer dog breeder end up with a healthy, long-lived companion. It can be a crapshoot, but I will take my chances with a responsible GR breeder who puts the health and longevity of their dogs at the forefront of any breeding program.


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## Ollie2StLucia

My current dog came from a pedigreed St Bernard and a pedigreed Golden mother. He was an oops. My previous dog came from a pedigreed Golden father and a pedigreed Golden mother. She was also an oops. If I misstated the origin of the two dogs originally, I apologize.


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## 3 goldens

My current dog is a Sanit/Great Pyrenees mix. The Pyrenees Rescue from which we had adopted 3 senior Pyrs, ages 7 1/2 to almost 10, one blind , asked me if I would be willing to foster this old gal for the rest of her life. Her previous foster had a couple of dogs that picked on her and she stayed so tense. Her vision isn't great and neither is her hearing. At some point she had been hit by a car and her lower back is fused, her tail broken so bad that it didn't heal right. She can not wag her tail nor sit down.

She is well known at the rescue, She had been adopted3times and her owner died each time. It is in the contract that if you can't keep a dog, it is to be returned to the rescue. Or family members can keep it if they are approved to do so. She was liste4das going to be 12the first ofnext month. However, due to her getting out when my grandson didn't put the lock onte4h gatecorre4tly (still now sure how it went down),and being picked up by the dog catcher, a chip was located saying she was born. 7, 2008, making her14. Her name was listed as Baily and shebelonge4d to someone in Oklahoma (I am on the Texas coast).

Without the entire story, the rescue went backs thru old records and found that the old chip was correct. She had come into the rescue 12 years ago come June 1..She did turn 14 on Feb. 6.

She is 1/4 Saint and 3/4 Pyrenees. the Pyr really comes thru. She doeshavetherequire4d double dew claws. She patrols the entire yard a couple of times, checking out everything to make sure nothing new has been here. She lays on the patio with head up, watching (as best she can), nose working. This is how Pyrs work. She is so gentle, she lets you flush ears with no trouble, clip her nails, etc. My vet and staff are very impressed with her. She is 105 pounds and I am keeping her on the thin side due to he

Now down here where there are lots of sheep, goats, free range chicken, cattle, there are a lot of Pyrs and Anatolian Shepherds, and many mixes of the two. I belong to a Pyr forum with well over 100 and I was surprised at how many have adopted golden/pyr mix. They all say the same thing--these golden/pyr mixes love kids and are so gentle, are great in the house (both breeds fit this). Still. I prefer goldens or a Pyrenees. I love Majik, my current pyr/Saint mix and she is perfecto. But I would not intentionally breed a Pyr and a saint.


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## Just_want_all_the_dogs

Hildae said:


> Intentionally bred mixes are not considered ethical here on this forum. "Designer breed" isn't a thing, they are just mixes. It is not a supported activity on this forum for people to intentionally create mixes. Understand that this doesn't mean that folks here hate mixed dogs, that isn't the case, no one blames the dogs and many here probably have or have had a mix at some point. In short, you won't likely be getting any recommendations from the folks here on how to find a mixed breed puppy.


So nice of you to speak on behalf of the entire group.


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## Just_want_all_the_dogs

Tagrenine said:


> I wanted to address your response greasing genetics. Not even a first generation cross is guaranteed to be 50% of each breed. Because of genetic recombination, the puppy could be more St. Bernard or more Golden. If you cross two first generations, then you’re even less likely to get anything close to 50%. Some could be nearly 80%+ golden and others will be much more St. Bernard.


I don’t think you understand how genetics and dna work…. Sure a dogs phenotype could lean one way, but make no mistake that dog is 50% of each breed.


----------



## Just_want_all_the_dogs

Ollie2StLucia said:


> Hi,
> I have seen only one litter of 5 Golden Saint puppies anywhere in the past year. Does anyone know where there might be a possibility of finding one? Thanks.


I hope you found the dog you were looking for. I wish people wouldn’t be so rude on these forums. If you haven’t found your dog, maybe try greenfield puppies or Big Fluffy Dog Rescue. I foster with big fluffy dog and they are wonderful.


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## FurdogDad

Just_want_all_the_dogs said:


> So nice of you to speak on behalf of the entire group.


Wow! You had to join the group to tell her she wasn't speaking for the group......that's pretty funny......


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## JerseyChris

FurdogDad said:


> Wow! You had to join the group to tell her she wasn't speaking for the group......that's pretty funny......


the funny part is that she can speak for the group, we are all in agreement


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## LJack

Just_want_all_the_dogs said:


> I hope you found the dog you were looking for. I wish people wouldn’t be so rude on these forums. If you haven’t found your dog, maybe try greenfield puppies or Big Fluffy Dog Rescue. I foster with big fluffy dog and they are wonderful.


Greenfield puppies is one of the most BYB, commercial kennel riddled, low quality, high health risk puppy brokering sites there is.

Getting a mixbreed dog from a reputable rescue is a valid way to find one.

It is incredibly rare to find any intentional mix breeder that has quality dogs from a structural and health perspective and most of the time they charge exorbitant prices for little to no value other than praying on a buyer’s desire for a special blend. That is why money people on this forum do not support mix-breed breeders and I have never seen any thread where There has ever been a breeder recommendation from anyone in the forum who is an active long term member. Mix breeding is just not safe health-wise or ethically honest in most cases.

If you feel you can find a breeder of this mix that does all the health certifications for both breeds as listed below, then I challenge you to prove my assertions about health risky mix breeder wrong.

Golden Retrievers -

Hip DysplasiaOne of the following:
OFA Evaluation
PennHIP EvaluationElbow DysplasiaOFA EvaluationACVO Eye ExamAnnual Eye Examinations. Results registered with OFACardiac EvaluationOne of the following:
Congenital Cardiac Exam at 12 months or older, with exam by cardiologist
Advanced Cardiac Exam
Basic Cardiac Exam at 12 months or older, with exam by cardiologist

Saint Bernard -

Hip Dysplasia - Min Age 24 MonthsOne of the following:
OFA Evaluation
PennHIP Evaluation (min age 24 months)Elbow DysplasiaOFA EvaluationACVO Eye ExamEye Examination once 22 months old. Results registered with OFACardiac Evaluation - Min Age 24 MonthsOne of the following:
Congenital Cardiac Exam by Boarded Cardiologist
Advanced Cardiac Exam
Basic Cardiac Exam by Boarded CardiologistDegenerative MyelopathyDM DNA Test from an approved labAutoimmune thyroiditis(Optional but recommended)
OFA evaluation from an approved laboratory


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## SRW

Just_want_all_the_dogs said:


> I wish people wouldn’t be so rude on these forums.


Am I the rudest?


Just_want_all_the_dogs said:


> I foster with big fluffy dog and they are wonderful.


Maybe so but are you aware of the fact that Boxers Rule?


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## FurdogDad

SRW said:


> Am I the rudest?
> 
> Maybe so but are you aware of the fact that Boxers Rule?


This person just joined an hr ago....they probably haven't had time to experience your unique perspectives yet. But don't worry, there's still time.....


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## Tagrenine

Just_want_all_the_dogs said:


> I don’t think you understand how genetics and dna work…. Sure a dogs phenotype could lean one way, but make no mistake that dog is 50% of each breed.


Can you enlighten me?


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## Megora

Tagrenine said:


> Can you enlighten me?


I believe that's a person who was told all his life that he was 1/2 something and 1/2 something else.... did 23 and me and found out that he was 6% of the one and 2% of the other and a whole lot of other miscellaneous. And didn't like that. Because ancestry for some is more identity than actual genetics.


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## DevWind

I have a feeling it's someone looking for entertainment.


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## SRW

DevWind said:


> I have a feeling it's someone looking for entertainment.


If you were referring to me, you would be correct.


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## DevWind

SRW said:


> If you were referring to me, you would be correct.


Well, no. But if the shoe fits.....


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