# Curling his lip to me ALL THE TIME



## oktay (Feb 14, 2009)

Hello everyone. This is sort of a unique issue as far as I can see. I can't find any info about it.

Puf, when he was a bit younger (he's 20 months now) was a crazy food guarding puppy. He would curl, growl, snap very readily when food was nearby. Once I got bit for touching his empty WATER bowl. It was getting very bad at one point and the thing that stopped the BITING - and I don't recommend this, I was just so desperate and willing to try anything - was the last time he bit me, I did not pull my hand back.. and I let him bite. He bit my hand a few extra times then went to a corner looking very surprised that his "back off now" tactic did not work anymore. That was the last of the BITING.


BUT,

With our without food present, he has been showing me his teeth lately, curling his lips. He won't growl, but he does this so many times a day when I do anything but pet him (like when I was examining his skin for a little bump I felt while petting). I hand feed him and he behaves, even to the extend that he is fine with eating a bone while I hold the other end of it, but he still gives me this lip thing all the time. For a long time now I have not been concerned at all that he will bite me. Even when he seems like he might, he ends up licking my hand instead (i know this is submissive behavior, not love).


Did I just make him get his little head get wired incorrectly? He doesn't do this to anybody else. Incidentally I am also the only person he will not jump on. Does he think we have a love/hate relationship. (I personally just love him, a lot) Does he think this is the behavior I expect of him?


I know that some professional training will be advised and I am not against it, but I cannot trust people with this where I live and a classroom environment where I can be present is not available.

Thanks for reading.

Oktay


----------



## oktay (Feb 14, 2009)

By the way, it's this dude


----------



## Duke's Momma (Mar 1, 2007)

Hi

I do not have any words of wisdom for you but someone will come along that does. I just wanted to say that I love the fish pic. How can you not love that face?!?


----------



## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

It sounds to me like he is "smiling" at you. It's a very submissive gesture. Can you try to catch a picture of it when it's happening?


----------



## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

WOW I did not even think of that fostermom....


----------



## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

He could be 'smiling' at you - but what is the rest of his body saying?


----------



## oktay (Feb 14, 2009)

I can assure you he is NOT smiling at me  He is very stiff when he does this and sometimes it leads to a deep growl - like if i am trying to hug him or something. He doesn't like his movement restricted.


----------



## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Technology is great, a video/phone consult with a veterinary behaviorist in the US or Europe could be a very good option.

Get the book "Mine" by Jean Donaldson, you should be able to order it online.

Due to the frequency and number of situations where the behavior is exhibited, I would recommend a vet behaviorist as a first step... but I don't know of anyone near you!

Can you get a video clip of some of these situations?
Can you make a list of the times it happens?
And again, this is ONLY with you?

First thoughts: His resource guarding hasn't really been addressed, he loves you , but also sees you as a threat to his items. He hasn't been trained to not jump on you and/or there's some anxiety to your departures/arriving. He has a lot of conflict about how to appropriately interact with you. Dogs don't like hugs and kisses. We can train them to like it... but in the meantime, don't do stuff you know will provoke him. It's just not fair.


----------



## vrmueller (Jun 14, 2008)

Ruby would curl her upper lip as a puppy and I thought it was some kind of aggressive behavior. She would come at us with the scary looking face. On a vet visit, Ruby showed her teeth to the vet and the vet said that Ruby was smiling and only about 1 percent of dogs do this.


----------



## oktay (Feb 14, 2009)

Thanks everyone for the help. I will report back with some photos etc. A proper identification of the issue is crucial to solve it, and your help in that area is much appreciated.

Oktay


----------



## Lestorm (Feb 25, 2007)

Have you had him to the vet to check that he isnt in any pain?


----------



## animallover (Jul 18, 2010)

He's adorable. We lived in Izmir for two years and I had my Maine **** cats with me. Since we were US Military we had a vet who visited occasionally. I don't recall that Turkey had vets... Good luck and I hope it all works out. I'm sure he loves you.


----------



## oktay (Feb 14, 2009)

Here are few photos I snapped today. Any opinions?


----------



## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

Is he growling in these photos?


----------



## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I get lip curling during play all the time because I let Penny play bite.

My concern is when it is accompanied by stiffening of the body and freezing in place.

Can you get a book or video program to help you with training? He sounds like he doesn't know what his 'job' in the family is. Working with him on the basics will help him bond with you as well as look to you for direction rather than giving you the directions.

When he does this, do you ever say "Hey, be nice". Do you approach him with hands down, palms open towards him? This is a universal sign of "I'm not a threat to you". When I do this with Penny she lets her ears drop and softens her face to be petted. 

In the last picture he looks like he has that goofy Golden grin, especially when their lips get caught on their canine teeth.


----------



## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Does this happen when you touch the side of his face? I have seen dogs (including Jasper) that have a "snarl spot" on the side of their face. It's a nerve there that causes their lip to curl when you touch it. With some dogs it happens on both sides of the face and others (like my Jasper) it only causes one side to curl.

If that's not the case, it's hard to tell from the pictures whether he thinks you are playing with him, or if he's being defensive. I wish you had a video so the entire event could be caught.


----------



## audreyannlow (Mar 5, 2007)

*Is that aggression?*

It may be, but I can't tell from the photos. Below is what mild snarling looked like in my dog. Did the bites draw blood?


----------



## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

fostermom said:


> Does this happen when you touch the side of his face? I have seen dogs (including Jasper) that have a "snarl spot" on the side of their face. It's a nerve there that causes their lip to curl when you touch it. With some dogs it happens on both sides of the face and others (like my Jasper) it only causes one side to curl..


Do you know I have been meaning to ask if anyone else's dog had this spot on the face. 
Brooks has it on both sides--if you touch that place, the face on that side makes the snarl face. But there is no snarl behavior associated with it so I knew it was a reflexive movement


----------



## kaysy (Jan 9, 2010)

Yes, our last golden truely smiled teeth bared, etc. (not just the golden grin). I know Marty shows teeth too and I know this isn't a "smile", though he does it at other dogs. Hope you can get the help you need.


----------

