# March 2015 hunt and field training



## Vhuynh2

Wow, busy weekend! Congratulations!!


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## CarmenK

hotel4dogs said:


> Wow, March already!
> We ran 4 HRC upland tests this weekend, so Tito has a new title to add now, the HRC "UH" (upland hunter) title.
> WAY different from the AKC tests. Lots of fun, just different.


Congratulations on Tito's new title!  Yes, upland tests sound to be much fun. I might the run upland test with our dogs this year. I have been a bit hesitant to enter so far.

We got more snow today. After the icy snow melted a bit yesterday, we run some BB blinds yesterday and a long DT today. The dogs loved those boring drills. Unfortunately, with the icy conditions we can't do different things at the moment.


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## hotel4dogs

Carmen, the HRC Upland tests are really quite easy as long as your dog is steady. They just want to see hunting desire, and steadiness.


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## Sweet Girl

Way to go! Who knew there was still a title Tito didn't have yet! :

He is so impressive!


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## CarmenK

hotel4dogs said:


> Carmen, the HRC Upland tests are really quite easy as long as your dog is steady. They just want to see hunting desire, and steadiness.


I like that they ask for hunting desire because this is natural ability of the breed. What I find difficult is to teach a dog with a ton of prey drive the switch from hunting on its own in upland tests to obedience on blinds.


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## hotel4dogs

At the awards *ceremony* when they read Tito's titles someone did ask if there were any titles Tito doesn't have. Dan piped up with, " PhD....but he's working on it".




Sweet Girl said:


> Way to go! Who knew there was still a title Tito didn't have yet! :
> 
> He is so impressive!


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## hollyk

Congratulation!


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## Sweet Girl

hotel4dogs said:


> At the awards *ceremony* when they read Tito's titles someone did ask if there were any titles Tito doesn't have. Dan piped up with, " PhD....but he's working on it".


:lol: I have no doubt he'll get one. 

Dr. Tito has a nice ring to it.


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## hotel4dogs

Dan has lots of funny lines about Tito. He told everyone after the second test on Sunday that Tito is out in the field with his protractor figuring out the optimum angle to get to the downed bird.


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## Alaska7133

Good for Tito!

I've been having a little trouble with Lucy on a couple of drills. So I was complaining to DH about it. So he had some comments that I thought were silly of him to make since he doesn't field train or run dogs hardly ever. Isn't it great when an outsider says here this is what you should be doing? DH trained work horses growing up, so he has more experience training animals than me. I said he should sit down with me and watch Lardy's DVD and tell me what I'm missing. So last night we did and he actually had some ideas of what I'm missing and what I have already have. He actually had ideas I could use. So now I have a little bit of a plan from a horse guy and we'll see how it goes.


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## Vhuynh2

How does one teach a channel blind when you don't have a channel? Do shoreline blinds?

I would like to start painting the picture of a channel blind in Molly's head. 

Test season is coming up and I feel that we are going to be close to ready but not *quite* there yet.


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## hollyk

Pepper's under the house as you first come in. 
The short red one was a Senior water blind last year.


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## hollyk

If you run it from the road side, the road in between Jigg's and Big Water, and run into the channel it works well.


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## Vhuynh2

Thanks for the diagrams. Now I don't have an excuse to not work on it. 

I actually did attempt the short red one today after surveying the land for possible channel blinds. It seemed "easy" enough to start with. Please someone tell me if I'm teaching this wrong. I first started by throwing a bumper 1/2 of the way down the channel. Molly did not watch me throw it but it was a visible black and white bumper. I sent her for it and she swam down the channel. Next, I walked around the pond and threw a bumper in the water 1/5 of the way down the channel. I walked back around and ran it. Molly could not see this one from the line. I had a ton of trouble keeping her off the right bank. She wouldn't take my cast into the water. I ended up sitting her and throwing a bumper into the channel and casted her over. (My trainer says if she doesn't take the cast after two attempts, I have to show her.) After she got that, I sent her again and she banked right again but this time took my cast into the water. Now she wanted to bank on the left. She ended up scalloping twice and after the third left angle back she saw the bumper and swam down the rest of the channel. That was EXHAUSTING. I'm not sure what my next step should be. Repeat that and if successful, run the whole thing with a white stake at the end?


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## K9-Design

I think channel blinds are the culmination of many different training steps and drills. IMO channels and shorelines are not something you decide one day to teach. 

I think before attempting channels or shorelines you should make sure your dog is fluent in all the water handling steps that tell him "more water":

swim-by
decheating
decheating pile (line to white stake progressively getting more cheaty)
cheating singles
down-the-shore drill 
cast over finger
cast into water drill
cast off point

These are all the same concept broken down into smaller pieces for the dog : take more water and go straight

Also this shows you that you don't have to have a perfect channel to hone the skills. Points and fingers, long shorelines, islands, potholes and coves all have their place in cementing the same concept.


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## Vhuynh2

We have done most, not all. I was really surprised that she would not take my cast into the water as we have worked on casting into water and I have never had a refusal. Scalloping is also usually not an issue.. but a channel is a different picture. Maybe I am doing this all wrong, and should wait until I see my trainer. I also couldn't find a shorter channel blind to start with, so that is why I broke it down the way I did.


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## K9-Design

How do you correct for a cheat? 
I cooked up a really cool down-the-shore drill that is for casting off the shore and swimming parallel close to shore, but it depends on the dog understanding a recall with nicks on the wrong path as a correction for cheating. When reading your above post I would definitely start with a visible white stake, send her first very fat through the water and with each send get cheatier and cheatier, until the last one is running just a few feet off the shore. You're sure to get some handles. That might be a good start.


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## Alaska7133

DH is yard work training with me every day at lunchtime now. This is the first time he's done anything more than throw. It's kind of fun teaching him the verbal and physical commands to give. Lucy is pretty well trained now and does very well for him. It's fun to watch how they do. I think he's gaining a new appreciation for the timing required in yard work. There is that special knowledge of knowing when to react and how to exactly react, that I'm still learning.

Reilly's blindness in his left eye is almost complete now. His depth perception is suffering when he jumps into the SUV. He's happy and doesn't care. I haven't tried him on retrieves lately except short ones in the yard. Still he can get them, just has to accommodate for being one eyed. I'm going to get him out on some longer retrieves this weekend and see if it's possible to run him in hunt tests. I'd still like to see him have fun.

The weather here has been spectacularly warm! We are thoroughly enjoying it. Most of the snow is gone in my yard. The ground is still very frozen, but it muddy on top. North of us has no snow at all, so we've been field training on frozen grassy fields. I'm hoping that we can get some early water work in this year. Maybe swimming in early May or possibly even late April... Fingers crossed! You all can keep our snow!


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## Claudia M

I am officially tired and done with all the snow, freezing rain, mud piles all over the yard and more snow. More than that I am tired of all the shoveling, I am tired of the girls having one or two safe days outside in the yard. Playing in the house helps but it is not enough exercise.


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## Vhuynh2

I thought about it and realized that I don't think cheating is the problem. When Molly banked onto the shore, she did not continue and run down the shore but circled around in that space as if she thought the pile might be there. We have done blinds past points and islands but she probably was not ready for a channel. 

So I actually went out and put a white stake at the end of the channel and ran it. She saw the stake and took water the entire way and did not cheat the slightest bit coming or going. I thought about removing the stake and running it again, but it's Friday and I decided I was gonna leave it at that.


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## K9-Design

I wouldn't remove the white stake right away, rather, move it way up on land. So a bigger entry & exit but the same line.


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## Alaska7133

Field training Saturday morning, then run to the obedience trial. Q'd in CD and RN. Yard work Sunday morning then back to the obedience trial. Q'd in CD and RN. Next month we have another trial, hope to finish CD and RN. Never had an obedience/rally title before. 

Trying to do better at yard work. Trying to be more consistent with my voice and reactions. Slowly we'll get there.


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## K9-Design

Very good!! Congrats on the obedience passes!


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## Vhuynh2

K9-Design said:


> I wouldn't remove the white stake right away, rather, move it way up on land. So a bigger entry & exit but the same line.


Thanks for this. I put the stake further up today and she didn't lock on it so I know she didn't see it. She also took a poor initial line unlike last time when she did see the stake and lined it. I casted her once and she took it all the way to the blind. 


Congratulations Stacey on your Q's. I commend you for entering two classes in one day -- I won't even enter Novice twice in one weekend.


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## Alaska7133

Vivian, why? 

I did because I didn't know any better. I watched a lot of people NQ last weekend. Reminded me of when I pulled Lucy from obedience trials a year ago. Now that's she's 2 we're back in the ring. But when she was under 2, she was a pistol in the ring, so I didn't want to beat my head against a wall anymore, so I pulled out. It's nice that she's finally mature enough to run. I do see people at our trials running multiple dogs and titling on them all! We have so few obedience trials, you get in them when you can. I've learned not to do outdoor obedience trials, too many distractions. We'll see if we can get titles in both next month. Not sure if lightening can strike twice, but we'll go for it!


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## Vhuynh2

Alaska7133 said:


> Vivian, why?
> 
> I did because I didn't know any better. I watched a lot of people NQ last weekend. Reminded me of when I pulled Lucy from obedience trials a year ago. Now that's she's 2 we're back in the ring. But when she was under 2, she was a pistol in the ring, so I didn't want to beat my head against a wall anymore, so I pulled out. It's nice that she's finally mature enough to run. I do see people at our trials running multiple dogs and titling on them all! We have so few obedience trials, you get in them when you can. I've learned not to do outdoor obedience trials, too many distractions. We'll see if we can get titles in both next month. Not sure if lightening can strike twice, but we'll go for it!


My nerves really get to me so one trial per weekend is plenty for me. Molly used to have a really bad issue with stressing out and deflating in the ring so I don't want to subject her to two days in a row of trials and I don't think she would do as well on the second day anyway. Two a DAY would be even worse -- I already have enough to be nervous about with one class!


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## hotel4dogs

An obedience competitor in this area (who I believe is the only person to ever win the National Obedience Invitational more than once) one time told me that, if you stop being nervous before you go in the ring, it's time to stop showing.


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## hollyk

Just thinking about the last holding blind or waiting outside the ring makes my heart race!


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## Alaska7133

Holly I agree, I'm way more nervous when I'm heading to that last holding blind. I even get nervous sometimes when I'm just training with a group and it's my turn.

Vivian, I think it helped at the obedience trial because Anchorage is a small town in the dog world. I knew probably 50% of the people and dogs there, so it was a pretty comfortable environment. I also had many obedience classes there in the past. So we were pretty calm. I was also super happy that the floors were clean and no treats were laying around on the floor. All that is such a huge distraction for Lucy or any dog.

So DH has been doing yardwork with Lucy and I. We switch off. Either he or I goes first, and we switch between us at some point. I think it's really helping Lucy get reinforced on what she needs to do. DH and I do things a little differently in how we move etc. But all in all I think it's good for dogs to learn how to work for different people. Plus I'm happy that DH is taking an interest in training dogs. In the past he has done no dog training. Right now we're reviewing basic casting, I've had some times where Lucy isn't turning to the correct side, so I thought it would be good to review the basics so we overcome that issue now before hunt test season starts up. First AKC HT is June 20-21. First NAHRA test is May 16-17.


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## Vhuynh2

Molly's enthusiasm at group training is waning again.  I love the group and I love going out with them but for some reason it isn't working out for Molly. Even the way she gets out of her kennel is different. When we go out alone, she is whining and scratching at the door while I set things up. Then at group training, even when I open her door to let her out, she's perfectly content staying inside her crate. Whyyyyy?


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## hotel4dogs

We went to Dan's today...by the time we got done training, you'd have thought I was running a flat coated retriever! Talk about MUD. Yeeeeeesh. 
But had a great time, anyway.


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## Alaska7133

Our tromp through the woods off leash last night turned into a great training opportunity. We were out with another person and her golden. So the 4 goldens were tearing around having a great time. We normally walk on trails through the woods to a gravel runway that's about 6,000 feet long and 150 yards wide. There are woods on either side. So as we walk the runway, we let the dogs run in and out of the woods chasing each other the whole length of the runway. As we were walking, Lucy came out of the woods with a frozen solid mallard hen. I called her to heel and took it from her. The bird was not shot or damaged in anyway. It hadn't been dead otherwise the wolves/coyotes/foxes would have eaten it by now. So rather than leave it I decided to train with it. I placed the bird on the ground, told all the dogs to leave it, then walked farther down the runway while the dogs chased and played. After about 50 yards, I called Lucy to heel. I turned to the bird, lined her up, and sent her on a Back for the bird. She went right to it and brought it back. So I walked a bit farther with the bird and placed it again. This time I went a little farther and decided to run her at a slight angle across one of the cross country ski trails along the runway. We went about 75 yards. No problem again. So as we walked the runway, I continued to run Lucy to the bird from different lengths and at different angles across trails. Longest distance was maybe 150 yards. She only needed one handle. All rest she lined. So as we walked again through the woods to the car, I left the frozen solid duck for the next dogs to find (or wolves, etc.). So what do you think I should do next time for training down the run way? Surface is gravel down the middle with grasses on the sides then woods. Oh and no airplanes ever.

Below is the trail with Lucy and a photo down the runway. It was a beautiful 10 degree evening.


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## gdgli

Today my puppy got his first bumpers. He's happy and I am happy.


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## Claudia M

hotel4dogs said:


> We went to Dan's today...by the time we got done training, you'd have thought I was running a flat coated retriever! Talk about MUD. Yeeeeeesh.
> But had a great time, anyway.


UMMMMMMM Darcy says WHAT?????? 
We were going to try to train this weekend. Not sure with all the rain and mud.


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## hotel4dogs

Yep, Tito was pretty much the same color as Darcy!


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## K9-Design

Stacey -- just be careful you aren't inadvertently teaching your dog just to track you to the bird/bumper. What you're doing is probably a variation of "walk out blinds" and can be a nice transition to cold blinds. But make very certain you aren't sending her to the bird/bumper along the same path that you've walked. Then they just learn to track you.

GORGEOUS day today. Low 80s and sunny. Pattern blinds w/ diversions on land and marks and blinds in the water. Fun stuff


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## gdgli

My puppy, Thor, is being a puppy. And I am having the greatest time teaching puppy obedience with a clicker. He will be a field dog and obedience dog so an early start in making him an operant dog is part of my plan.

Yes, we are now doing whistle sits. I like getting a real early start on this.


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## MillionsofPeaches

we are training hard around here now that the weather is somewhat decent. Running lots and lots of blinds and learned a few tricks from some field trainers from up north that train down here in the south. They have been helping me a lot with Katniss. Just luck that I met them and watched them train. Peaches has one leg left on her JH and working with the nasty wet ducks for her. Proof has been doing great, he has gone swimming a couple times (no baby swimming for him, he swims like a pro), done the beach, gone to field trials, gone to the high school clay shoots twice (doesn't seem to have issues with guns), walked through woods, fields, duck ponds, met lots of people and quite a few dogs, rode in his first dog box on the back of a pick up, does lots of simple obedience, 20 yard marks with bumpers, started learning baby blinds with bumpers and so on and so on. His life has been incredible since he's come home. sleeps from 7 to 530 every night and is nearly house broken. I've ended up meeting some neat people because of him. He has shown me a new world and its very exciting! Next week is CCA in Atlanta and the following weekend is hunt tests. This week I may meet up with one of the best trainers in the country for derby dogs and start doing some puppy training with his young puppy trainer. We will see how it all goes but I'm jazzed up to say the least! Oh and we are finally online and done moving!


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## gdgli

My plan for Thor: Obedience dog and field dog. My training style will be similar to what I have been doing with Buffy. One minor change, I think I will be taking the bird from a front finish rather than a finish right into heel. Not a big deal. I have also decided to do more training with my new (relatively) training group. I like our attitude.

We did some puppy retrieves yesterday. The wind created some swirling leaves that resulted in distractions. No problem, Thor is ultimately doing the right thing. Actually, I am thankful for the strong chase instinct. I want that in a pheasant dog that must run down cripples.

On the menu today: more yardwork and more puppy obedience.

As for Buffy, she seems to be back to fighting trim. She has regained her lean look. We have been doing some roadwork. Can't really get to a field today---my car is in the shop. OK, maybe some yardwork for Buffy. Nothing wrong with review.


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## Alaska7133

George = Photos are so important!! Where are there? We need our puppy fix!


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## gdgli

gdgli said:


> My plan for Thor: Obedience dog and field dog. My training style will be similar to what I have been doing with Buffy. One minor change, I think I will be taking the bird from a front finish rather than a finish right into heel. Not a big deal. I have also decided to do more training with my new (relatively) training group. I like our attitude.
> 
> We did some puppy retrieves yesterday. The wind created some swirling leaves that resulted in distractions. No problem, Thor is ultimately doing the right thing. Actually, I am thankful for the strong chase instinct. I want that in a pheasant dog that must run down cripples.
> 
> On the menu today: more yardwork and more puppy obedience.
> 
> As for Buffy, she seems to be back to fighting trim. She has regained her lean look. We have been doing some roadwork. Can't really get to a field today---my car is in the shop. OK, maybe some yardwork for Buffy. Nothing wrong with review.


Just want to clarify: Thor and Buffy are a field dogs first. I like my field dogs full of piss and vinegar. I like doing obedience because I have an agenda. I want to dispel the myth that field dogs "are not biddable, don't make good pets, and are not good in the house." So far I have done a darn good job of disproving the myth.

Many thanks to my mentors---Guy Fornuto (field) and Rick Pisani (obedience).


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## Alaska7133

George,
If you look at some of the top obedience trainers and competitors like Janice Gunn, Bridget Carlson, and Connie Cleveland, all use field goldens with field trial backgrounds. I think that's all that needs to be said about the dependable nature of field goldens in the obedience arena. The level of obedience required and the nature of teamwork required for field work, sets up a great obedience trial competitor. I think your pup has all that going on! He should do really well! Is an OTCH in his future?


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## Vhuynh2

I am convinced that the reason Molly doesn't like the group environment is because she's listening to everyone else correcting their dogs. One time, I drove up while a friend was running a drill and there were a lot of verbal corrections and whistle sits going on and when I tried to let Molly out to air her, she did NOT want to get out. If there is a more sensitive dog out there I'd like to meet them. 

I went out to group today because I had invited someone to join us but wasn't planning on running Molly. I was going to see first how she acted getting out of the crate. It seemed like she wanted to get out so I let her out and threw fun bumpers, let her love up on everyone, and she ran around while I loaded wingers. When she's stressed, she won't run around like that, so I took it as a good sign. I ran the setup right after, and she had much more enthusiasm than she did last week. She did a really nice job on the blind too. 

So I think I'll keep trying that and see how she does. People tell me I should work on getting Molly over this problem, instead of just exclusively training alone again.


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## Alaska7133

How does Molly do at a test? Does the stressful environment bother her or is it just the yelling and whistling get her down? Sweet goldens sometimes they just want to please and don't want to do anything wrong. They hate hearing people get "upset".


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## Vhuynh2

So far she is fine and very excited at tests. I think the whistling and yelling at training makes it a stressful environment for her. We haven't run tests that require handling yet, so I have no idea how she will react. 

I'm going to run her in UKC Seasoned next month so we will see..


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## K9-Design

My training partner's bitch is VERY sensitive to people yelling at their own dogs. She will sit in the holding blind waiting for her turn and shiver if someone is correcting their dog, or get very nervous if she is working and the honor dog or handler is making noise. I agree you have to work through it because trust me you will not make it through master without training with a group at least part of the time.


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## Loisiana

Just entered a fun upcoming weekend - Flip going for his last JH pass on Sat. and Phoenix going for his WC on Sunday (Easter sunday actually). 

I was hoping to get to go out and meet with the training group one or two more times before the tests, but they meet during the week and I ended up taking three days off work already this month (I lost my Conner last week and I've been taking it pretty hard). Work was pretty understanding but I don't think they'd be happy if I took more time off already to let my dogs go get dead ducks.


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## Vhuynh2

K9-Design said:


> My training partner's bitch is VERY sensitive to people yelling at their own dogs. She will sit in the holding blind waiting for her turn and shiver if someone is correcting their dog, or get very nervous if she is working and the honor dog or handler is making noise. I agree you have to work through it because trust me you will not make it through master without training with a group at least part of the time.


Does it affect how her dog runs? How did she work through it?


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## K9-Design

Vhuynh2 said:


> Does it affect how her dog runs? How did she work through it?



She has a fair amount of anxiety lining up for blinds and it definitely makes it worse but no more of an effect than that. The anxiety at the line has been a quirk of hers from the start. She doesn't get any excuses made for her she's expected to perform to the level she is capable. The dog is a MH.


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## hotel4dogs

Jodie---so sorry to hear about Conner.


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## gdgli

Loisiana

Sorry for your loss.


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## MillionsofPeaches

I'm very sorry about your loss of Connor...


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## Claudia M

gdgli said:


> Just want to clarify: Thor and Buffy are a field dogs first. I like my field dogs full of piss and vinegar. I like doing obedience because I have an agenda. I want to dispel the myth that field dogs "are not biddable, don't make good pets, and are not good in the house." So far I have done a darn good job of disproving the myth.
> 
> Many thanks to my mentors---Guy Fornuto (field) and Rick Pisani (obedience).


George, I could not agree with Stacey more! A dog that goes against it's natural instincts (get the bird) and sits quietly until the owner tell him what to do it the utmost obedience. There is no myth to dispel.

When we introduced Belle to the duck there was this 3yr old lab there. The owner sent her to the chair. We were throwing the duck in front of her, Belle was going to her chair to play with her. Kids came to see Belle. That dog did not move. The moment the owner told her to do something she did, the moment the owner said place she went straight back to her chair. And let me tell you this girl is a dynamite in the field, she runs after the birds as if she has fire under her legs.


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## Claudia M

So very sorry for your loss Loisiana.


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## MillionsofPeaches

Vivian that is interesting about Molly. I am glad you think you found the reason behind her behavior at group. I think you have my girls beat, they are sensitive and don't like hearing other dogs get yelled at but they will still get out of the car. I think it is neat how you are always trying to figure her out, that is how I am too and sometimes people think I'm a little nuts.


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## Alaska7133

Louisana, sorry to hear about your Conner... We never forget them do we...


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## Vhuynh2

Shelby, we're in the same boat! I have been teased by a training partner who says, "Vivian's favorite question is 'why'." People also probably think I'm nuts. I am always throwing out possible explanations for dogs' behavior to the group and most of the time I'm met with the response: they're animals.


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## MillionsofPeaches

THIS is me to a TEE! Ask George, I'm always doing this, but luckily he is the same way ....Yeah I always say sorry in advance, I ask a lot of questions.


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## MillionsofPeaches

I just have to laugh. So I signed up for a hunt test and I was hoping and praying I wouldn't be first in the running order. I'm nearly always in the first five but this one is my first and I was nervous about it. Wouldn't you know it. I got what I wanted but the extreme. 25 out of 27. Ugh. Ha ha ha


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## hotel4dogs

at least around here your number has very little to do with when you actually run, they work around the pros.


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## MillionsofPeaches

that is true....I hope that is the case, I'm more a middle girl...


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## Loisiana

MillionsofPeaches said:


> I just have to laugh. So I signed up for a hunt test and I was hoping and praying I wouldn't be first in the running order. I'm nearly always in the first five but this one is my first and I was nervous about it. Wouldn't you know it. I got what I wanted but the extreme. 25 out of 27. Ugh. Ha ha ha


My last test I was forty something out of 45. And when I asked that morning they said they were trying to keep it in order as much as possible, so I had a loooong wait.


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## MillionsofPeaches

oh Gosh Jodie that is a LONG wait!! holy smokes. I haven't seen a test under master with that many entries, wowzers!


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## hotel4dogs

Great day at Dan's today! The weather was nice, it was 45 and cloudy, which is good weather for Tito. 
We started with a series of blinds run toward a tree line, because he's been tending to square the tree line on blinds since the "hunt dead" stuff in the AKC upland tests. So these were to be a series of blinds of decreasing angles, along the tree line.
Anyway.
On the first blind, he took a perfect line, got to where I thought the bird was, and veered off course a bit. Of course, I sat him and casted him over to the bird. He took the cast but scalloped back a bit, so tweet-over--- same thing--- so now it's tweet-tweet-tweet- and angle back. I probably had to cast him 4 or 5 times, and it was almost as if he was avoiding the bird except his attitude was awesome. Weird. So I gave another angle back, and let him roll with it thinking maybe I was wrong about where the bird was (as it's been known to happen, LOL). So he dives next to the evergreen, and flushes a live chukkar! The bird must have been crippled because it never really flew, Tito chased it down within a couple of feet and came back with it, just as proud as could be.
Dan and I laughed and laughed! No wonder he wouldn't go to the dead duck, there was a live chukkar not 10 feet away from it! Dan said, "Not your ordinary blind, Tito!" 
I told Dan it was very clever of him to plant a live bird right next to the dead bird, to get Tito all jacked up  .
Anyway, the rest of the drill went great, then some nice marking. 
A good day.


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## gdgli

Loisiana said:


> My last test I was forty something out of 45. And when I asked that morning they said they were trying to keep it in order as much as possible, so I had a loooong wait.


When that happened to me, I drove a short distance to a very nice field and worked on some stuff and de-energized my dog. I put that time to good use.


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## gdgli

Ran some marks and blinds. Buffy is back in shape.


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## MillionsofPeaches

why couldn't the weather be like that when I came up to visit you!


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## gdgli

Thor doing some yard training.


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## hotel4dogs

Tito and Dan at the HRC upland tests. A good weekend for all, everyone passed all tests.


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## Vhuynh2

That's so cool that the club gave out medals!

We went to see our trainer today. We hadn't had birds in awhile so we used shackled pigeons. Once Molly figured out it was pigeon day, she broke twice in a row. I was also handling in the gun in preparation for UKC so that probably did not help either.

Water blinds were OK -- this particular pond is really shallow and when Molly's feet touch ground (even though she is in the middle of the pond and water up to her chest) she tends to pop. She is usually fine as long as she is swimming. I got a few good corrections in.


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## gdgli

Today looks nice, just a bit chilly. I think I will get out and do some blinds with Buffy.

Thor will get more yard training.


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## Alaska7133

Made it to the range to shoot today. I didn't shoot as well as I wanted to. Shot with some native kids from a village. They live in Anchorage to go to college. They had Very rusty shotguns from living on the ocean, but all the kids were excellent shots. I'd go hunting with them anytime. I'm sure out in the village the hunt a lot more often than we ever get a chance. They don't hunt with dogs though. Dogs are for pulling sleds, they don't retreive. 

Lucy is doing very well. She is more steady than ever. Worked Reilly on doubles today. He's getting more steady. I might run him on Hunter level in NAHRA this summer. He'll love the trailing part of the test. He's just not always so steady with birds. I think I've gotten him past eating the birds. But time will tell. Not sure if Lucy is ready for SH level. First test is in late June up in Fairbanks.


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## Claudia M

Finally back to training. Water was a bit cold. Did a couple marks across the pond with bird landing on land and then a couple field trial marks in water. Pleased with both girls. Rose needed handling on the first long water mark. She got on the peninsula and I had to whistle stop her and then give her an over back to the bird. Darcy does not have a good whistle stop yet but she hunted it down and got it. Tried to cheat on the way back and had to correct that. All in all a good day. And Belle went crazy after the pigeon.


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## K9-Design

Bally did his first cold land blinds today. It was great. I wrote about it in his journal on this forum


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## Loisiana

When I looked at junior entries for our upcoming test yesterday, they were at 23 junior dogs. Now an hour and a half before closing its up to 51. 

ETA: make that 52. Going to bed now, will be interested to see final count tomorrow morning.


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## K9-Design

So Jodie what was the final count? That's huge for junior! Good for the club.

Had a productive day yesterday. Did Bally's blinds first, 3 blinds the first two I got probably 5-6 handles on each and the last one he lined. 
Then we set up a water double on training pond -- only about 15 yards of swimming (narrowest part of the pond) but 60-70 yard exit to the marks. Ran as singles first, put Bally up, training partner ran other dogs, then brought Bally back and did the double -- he did perfect! We also honored with a bumper in his mouth. Usually I say "no - sit" for the honor, and face my dog's side with my arms crossed, but every time I said "No" to Bally to signal an honor he was like, Oh I'm sorry and backed into heel position! Oops. I've decided to tell him "honor - sit" instead. Probably not necessary but I like the extra cue.
We then caught 3 live birds and threw 3 long walking singles into high cover -- they LOVED that  Even Fisher got to catch a bird (his mark was much shorter  )


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## Loisiana

K9-Design said:


> So Jodie what was the final count? That's huge for junior! Good for the club.


Final junior entry of 53. I was surprised they got that many, since it's just a junior/senior test (Houston golden club). But I read a post on RTF that said another club in that area had a junior entry of 95 ( I forget if that's this year or last year)! Senior is only 23 dogs. 

That's all on Saturday. Sunday is WC/WCX, and entries are 8/7.

Looks like it will be a long day Saturday, but we should get through early Sunday!


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## hotel4dogs

Just back from an awesome session at Dan's. The Monster Boy will sleep well tonight.
We started out by throwing a live duck as a water mark, "lightly shackled". The decision to use a live duck was because the water was 34 degrees, the air 42 degrees, and we wanted to be sure he was having fun. Oh yeah.....he had a BLAST! The duck, unfortunately, was quite able to swim, and Tito chased after it for over 10 minutes. It would dive, come back up, swim more, dive, etc. Finally it appeared that he was never going to catch it, so Dan ended up shooting the duck and Tito got his retrieve.
Needless to say he was all jacked up at that point, so Dan released a live duck (wing tied) into the heavy cover nearby. We waited about 2 minutes, then sent Tito after it for a little trailing fun. Again, he had a great time. He took about 5 minutes to track down the duck, and was so pleased with himself. 
This was the perfect time to run technical singles, so we ran a whole bunch of them. Very hard marks, such as behind a low tree/bush line, over a couple of ridges, across 2 roads and 2 cover changes, and other stuff like that. He slammed every single mark, much to my pleasure. Then a L-O-N-G difficult blind, which he one whistled. His initial line was over 100 yards dead straight, and not far from a mark we had just run, so that, too, was good.
Did some "swinging with the gun" stuff to get him ready to run HRC finished, as we've never really done much of it with him since he runs almost all AKC.
A great day. Some days are like that (others not so much, lol).
Actually, a great week. He did terrific in agility yesterday morning, working some impressive distances. And in tracking, he did a fantastic job on a 460 yard track aged 25 minutes, with 4 turns. So he's really on his game this week.


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## K9-Design

Trained with Carol Cassidy today  master setup plus "mark & a blind" x 3 in the water. Great stuff. Always learn so much from her


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## K9-Design

Barb you can use swinging with the gun very much to your advantage in AKC in fact it's more important they swing with the gun there since you cannot talk to them between marks.


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## hotel4dogs

Thanks Anney, I'm sure it will be a big help in Master. There's so much noise in the field in AKC he swings anyway, at least in Senior where there are only 2 marks.


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## MillionsofPeaches

I'm jealous, Anney!


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## gdgli

Claudia M said:


> Finally back to training. Water was a bit cold. Did a couple marks across the pond with bird landing on land and then a couple field trial marks in water. Pleased with both girls. Rose needed handling on the first long water mark. She got on the peninsula and I had to whistle stop her and then give her an over back to the bird. Darcy does not have a good whistle stop yet but she hunted it down and got it. Tried to cheat on the way back and had to correct that. All in all a good day. And Belle went crazy after the pigeon.


Very nice.


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## K9-Design

Really nice training session yesterday, the weather was PERFECT 75º and sunny all day 

I got there first and set up 3 long blinds for Bally, he one-whistled the first one which was great -- other two had handles and we worked it out.

Training buddies showed up, we ended up setting up 3 marks from the same line, two short ones and one longer one up the middle. 

Slater I practiced all three marks as walk-up singles, really cuing him and getting him to focus. The middle one I did as a poison bird to the blind off to the left of the fall. Slater one-whistled this blind, and remembered exactly where his mark was. He lined the other blind.

Bally did the two short marks as walk ups, but I did the right one first, then re-ran the left blind. Then the left mark, re-ran the middle blind, then the middle mark as a single. He again one-whistled the left blind, and was sucked toward the middle mark a bit on the middle blind. (right blind we didn't repeat)

After everyone went through that setup we moved and did 3 walking singles for everyone angling up the side of the hill. Hold the line! Bally has a tendency to fall off but I think he's starting to fight it as he did fine on these.


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## Claudia M

Yesterday was a pretty good day except very very cold. Today was much warmer outside but the marks were on water. Almost turned around to go home. But decided to stay and give it a shot. Darcy decided to drop the chukka bird and look for a duck. After the second fetch command she went back and got it. Rose almost turned back when she hit the cold water. She looked from left to right and then finally got all the way in. Maybe she thought I was going to nick her as I had to do back in January when she tried to go into the frozen pond. Since she did go I let her carry the chukka bird all the way back to the car. She loves those little birds.


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## Alaska7133

Last weekend was busy! DH and I had a booth in the spring home show for our business, so I was running between that and a dog show. Showed Lucy Saturday and Sunday. Then race home drop her off, and race to the home show. Before the dog show I would do some drills in the yard. I ran her in no-no drills - directed jumping essentially. She runs straight and true going out, but around obstacles on the return. Which she can't do in obedience trials. I'd like to have her in Open after we finish Novice. Darn little bugger wouldn't change her tune on coming back and continued to go around. She was quite defiant about it!! Hmmm... Not sure what was going on there. It's supposed to be a no pressure drill, so I'll continue to go after her and re-direct as necessary.

Showed Lucy Saturday and Sunday. Came in dead last again on Saturday. I looked at the competition and decided that it definitely wasn't her, it was definitely me. So I decided to hire a pro. So Sunday morning at the show I approached a pro I had seen around doing well and asked if she was interested. She had time, so yes she could. Anyway needless to say Lucy took winners bitch. Man oh man, over 30 shows and never ever doing well. Occasionally 2nd in her class, but never ever doing more than that. It was so nice to get a win. It was only 2 points, but it was her first 2 points. I was sad it wasn't me in the ring. But Lucy looked happy. Her tail was up, her ears were forward, her speed on the go around was just right. She did look the best of all the bitches. So I will be using this same pro to finish Lucy. Pros up here are a bit different than other places. We have so few shows, there are no pros here that have a herd of dogs they travel around with from show to show and live in an RV. We have pros that live in the area and just take the leash from you ringside and run the dog around the ring. You generally pay for each day of showing. Sometimes a little more per point, but it's not much to use a pro here. Some pros for a little extra will groom your dog too. So I broke down and hired a pro to show my dog. Something I swore I absolutely would NEVER do! But it's the only way I will ever finish this bitch unfortunately.

So onto no-no drills and T drills. Lucy is doing just fine in the field.


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## MillionsofPeaches

that's great about the win, Stacey! I know how badly you want her to finish and I hope it works out for you. Don't feel bad about hiring a pro.

We've been training in between the rains. It has done nothing but rain here! Blah!

Saturday Katniss and I had our first senior test. It was crazy. Several things that could happen, happened. The live flyer was against a tree line and in the shade. When they called dog, I didn't even see it land so I know Katniss didn't. So she went for the memory bird. My heart sank, ugh, because she has never gone for the memory bird so I was sure she didn't see the live flyer. When she got back I lined her up as if it was a blind. I held her steady for a few seconds and she took the line all the way to the bird. I was so relieved. She even started to slow down half way there and I knew she was thinking about if she was doing the right thing. I was sweating it as I didn't want her to be handled yet. She kept on and quickened her pace and scooped up the bird. whew. Then the blind. UGH. the sun was right behind me. I don't know if you guys remember but those are two of the worst things for her. Seeing the birds against dark shady tree lines and sun behind me. But she did super on the blind and I was very pleased. The judges told me that she did great and we worked well together. 

On to water. OMG! I was dying. So it was a shoreline blind. I was spazzing so bad as this is something I've been working on for a while now and she can fight me sometimes but the return is her worst, she fights me on cheating the way back. The judge emphasized that the dogs had to stay in the water to the blind. So I get up there and I was terrified of the blind. I think I affected her on the double because she was a dud out there, like she didn't want to do it. The memory bird was terrible as they placed the thrower too far away from he hay bale and they guy had to throw it about two feet off the ground to get it to where the judge wanted it. Lots of dogs were missing it as there was a bank so just a second of the bird in sight and then the go bird was tossed. Finally the judge changed it and put a duck call on the thrower but still that didn't do much. Then the judge decided to make it a hot blind and oh did I mention the blind was behind the gun? ugh. 
I get up there and I had to handle her to the bird on the memory bird but she took it perfectly all the way to the bird. Then she comes up and we do the blind. She suddenly perks up and wouldn't you know it? She does a really nice blind! And on the way back she swims a perfect line to me! The judge says look at that the only dog so far to not cheat the bank coming back! So she learned something!! woohoo. 
So we got our first leg. It was exciting. I was proud of both of us as I was really nervous about entering. I know that we still have tons of work to do but it was a nice relief to know that we are capable of doing this. 

The next day was JH and Peaches needed one leg left. Well, it didn't happen. I was so frustrated with this judge. He only had one gunner on the live flyer (shoot as senior he had two) and he said he was going to make sure the birds were dead. Well, none of them were dead after being shot but died fairly shortly. One lady gets up there and the bird is not dead so he lets he go back and redo. But when Savannah gets up there the bird isn't dead and he called dog. So Peaches takes after the bird and four feet in the bird gets up and CHASES after Peaches! so peaches runs off but keeps trying to get back tot he bird. The judge told savannah don't worry it should die soon. Well, it doesn/t and savannah walks out there and she had to chase the bird to get it! And it bit her! After that the judge got two gunners out there but he never let savannah rerun Peaches. Peaches has never not picked up her live flyers and they've not been dead when she's gotten to them before but this bird was chasing the dog and it was a big old mallard. I don't know what to think on a junior test. 
So now we still have one more leg to go on her. I felt bad for savannah she was crying, she felt like she didn't do something right. I told her there was nothing she can do on this one because honestly I wouldn't train a dog on a big mallard without taping his beak so I couldn't prepare Peaches for that hot mess. 

Oh on a good note both dogs passed their CCA's and Peaches was the dog the judges loved! I was really excited, they were asking why she wasn't being shown! Surprising! I learned a lot of about the faults of the dogs and their pluses, it was interesting.


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## Vhuynh2

Congratulations Stacey on Lucy's win, that's very very exciting!

Shelby, congrats again on Katniss' senior leg!!! I'm so excited for you two as I am not even sure if I will run Molly this year. So sorry about the live flyer  But it sounds like Peaches did a great job trying her very best.


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## MillionsofPeaches

Vivian you can totally do this! I think you are way ahead of me and Katniss...At least try in the fall. I did this because I felt like I had to get over my fear of failure and I'm glad I did. Even if we fail other tests this leg gives me more confidence that yes my "fluffy" girl can do this and so can my "fluffy" self!


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## Alaska7133

MOP,
That was a weird thing on the JH test. I thought they were required to have 2 gunners not 1? I wouldn't want to be that gunner and only wing the bird. Heck I sometimes will double pump my shotgun if I think there's a chance that bird might still be alive when it hits the ground on a JH test. You have to be especially sure since a junior dog is usually not a highly experienced dog with live flyers. That wasn't fair! Sorry that all happened to you.


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## Alaska7133

Congratulations on the SH leg! 
Also passing the CCA with both girls had to be so much fun!


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## MillionsofPeaches

Yeah I thought they had to have two gunners too but apparently not. I mean a flock of snow geese in the middle of a junior test seemed a little crazy as well. One of my friends was furious about that and he had a master dog. Luckily we've already dealt with that and I have been training for it. Not to mention the angle entry into the water that was down a bank. The judge was rather full of himself, I felt like. I think he might have been a new judge as he seemed to really enjoy emphasizing the challenge to the handlers. Like a little overzealous. Also he let everyone know at the senior water that there were many bleeding dogs and that this was a "WATER BLIND" and said that several times. I was nervous as hell!


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## hotel4dogs

Ah Stacey, that's why I hired a pro (ringside pickup) to show Tito. I had put 2 points on him myself, but knew there is just no way I can show him to reflect what a great dog he is. Face it, it's what they do for a living. And this is why I say it's really not all that political, it's just that they know how to present the dog and, well, I don't. But congrats on the points, more to come soon I'm sure!
MOp congrats on the SH leg and the CCAs. I think the CCA is really great information! Sorry about the JH, but it falls under that old category of "sh*t happens".


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## Alaska7133

Barb,
At least you got 2 points on your own! I didn't even manage that after 30 shows. When I watched Lucy I can see that she sees me as an obedience partner, not a show partner. I don't know how to make it fun for her. So it really is my fault. But she has finally matured too and come into her coat and her body. But it was quite interesting how she could go from last to first overnight, with the same exact dogs. The pro is convinced she should easily finish. I did have her trained well for the ring, so at least that part is done.

MOP,
you just never know what's going to happen when you are outdoors at a test!


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## hotel4dogs

Stacey, I, too, did all the training for the breed ring, so I didn't feel badly having someone else trot him around a few times! The achievement is yours, the handler is just showcasing her.


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## Loisiana

Phoenix is entered in WC this weekend. I just got an email that they are doing WC/WCX training Wednesday in Houston. Now I need to figure out if there's any way I can get off work so I can take him.


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## hollyk

MOP
WOOHOO! Congrats on Kitness's Senior Pass! 
Also on both girl's passing the CCA.


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## hollyk

Go Team Lucy! 
Congratulations Stacey.


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## hollyk

Loisiana said:


> Phoenix is entered in WC this weekend. I just got an email that they are doing WC/WCX training Wednesday in Houston. Now I need to figure out if there's any way I can get off work so I can take him.


Bird Flu???


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## Loisiana

Don't think I'm going to get to go to the training, just too tough to get off right now if I'm not really sick. Bad time of year as a teacher. I guess I'll be operating partially on the crossed fingers method this weekend. :crossfing


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## K9-Design

Hey gals -- BIG CONGRATS on all the points and passes!!!! So exciting to read about your fun weekends 
MoP I love your description of the judge being a big meanie and reminding everyone about the WATER blind -- all I can say is -- welcome to senior & master!!! hahaha Glad you got your feet wet -- literally and figuratively 

My car is in the shop today so I borrowed Dad's truck and can only take one dog. So Bally got to go train which was very entertaining -- got to ride loose (he wants to surf on the console) and staked out during training like a real field dog. He was actually really well behaved for this -- didn't flip out, dig, bark, or anything. Just sat and watched the other dogs. Fisher would have been aghast if I treated him like that LOL

Anyways we started with angle-back drills, then did a setup on land. Two long blinds (~150-175 yards) inside two very spread out marks, 75-100 yards long. First I ran Bally on the two blinds before we set up holding blinds. Then did the memory bird as a single, and put him up and ran other dogs. When it was his turn to put it all together, I ran the double then the two blinds, separated by a hand-thrown diversion bird, which he loves. Bally is REALLY figuring all of this stuff out. This was the first time I felt he really understood what was happening on the double. He didn't try to break before the go-bird, he swung with the gun and instantly focused on the 2nd bird. He came back with the go bird, sat and looked right at the memory bird with ears up, no prompting from me. He stepped on it. Blinds were rough but to be expected. Handling is sort of all over the place, but as long as he makes some effort to change direction I'm happy. He is starting to wag his tail when I am lining him up for blinds  He is getting the game.


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## MillionsofPeaches

Anney, sorry, I didn't mean to come across like I was whining about the judge being unfair at the senior test. While I thought the water was difficult I didn't think it was over senior level. I was stressing about how much he emphasized water, I already knew what was expected, it just got me jacked up even more. And believe it or not, what you said a while back about how most dogs fail because of the water blind, that kept running through my head as he was talking about his blind. That wasn't his fault and I didn't mean it to sound that way. The point I was trying to make was him as the junior judge and how much he really enjoyed how "challenging" his tests were. I thought he wasn't a thoughtful judge for a junior level setup. It seems like a lot of new judges get really creative on how to show their abilities to judge and make a set up and then as time goes on they realize that maybe they were being a bit over the top with junior and their tests are a little more entry level. And as Barb said, **** happens which it did.


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## Alaska7133

Worked again on no-no drills last night. Lucy only needed one correction. I am trying really hard to not handle over obstacles. I really want her to run directly to and from the bumpers without going around without me having to blow that whistle. Since we don't have open water and won't for a few more weeks, I'm hoping this transfers to water when we run water blinds. I'm going to start extending the distances and angle and quantity of obstacles. I want to reinforce the true way that she runs to bumpers, but also especially on the return. From MOP's perspective, sounds like Lucy could get docked on a blind if she runs or swims around obstacles on the way back to the line. But I'm not sure how this all works with swim by once we can train on water? Any thoughts?

I've been using Dennis Voigt's new DVD on drills. There are some really great ideas! I do like Cassidy's book too. I really like Dennis' DVD on training alone.


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## MillionsofPeaches

Stacey, 
the judges don't really grade on the way back unless you start calling here or something to dissuade the dog to not cheat. 
This shoreline blind was on a bank about 3 to 4 feet high. The dog had an angle entry down the bank at about 7 feet maximum. Then the dog had to swim about 40 yards in the water but only 2 to 4 feet away from the shoreline, depending on the curves of the shoreline. Then the dog started touching about four feet to the bank and had another 15 or so yards to the blind. The judge did not want the dogs to walk on the shoreline or get on the bank. He also didn't want people to send their dogs off the line to the center of the pond to keep them from wanting to cheat. 
The problem a lot of people had was they had to make a decision on the return. do they risk getting docked by correcting their dog on the way back or do they let the dog think its okay to cheat the way back?
I have been trying very hard to prevent Katniss from cheating on the way back. I figure if she learns its okay to cheat coming back it doesn't make sense to her for not cheating or squaring the bank on the way in. I have a harder time with her cheating on the way back then I do taking my line on the way in. AT the test I was shocked when she took a straight line back into the water to me because none of the dogs had done that yet (later on there were dogs that of course did it perfect) and I figured she was going to not do it. So I was excited that she showed me that she learned something!


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## K9-Design

No it typically does not matter if they cheat on the way back in a test, unless you try to stop and handle the dog and he blows you off, then you've invited the judges to watch and grade accordingly. 

I would strongly suggest you guys get ahold of Mitch White's decheating drill. It is in his transition manual which you can purchase off his website (Google Gamekeeper Retrievers / Mitch White). It begins by decheating only on the way back, and extends to handling on the way out. It is so simple and works so well, it floors me how people can get their dogs not to cheat going out but be cheater pumpkin eaters on the way back in! It's so easy to fix. It is a work ethic thing -- and can help the dog really understand its job if he is required to take the correct line coming and going. 

Stacey -- no no drills are great -- I still have to do it with Bally -- but I would encourage you to embrace not only when the dog lines it but when they need to be handled. Even if your dog tries to go around the obstacle, if you can stop them and handle it over the obstacle, that is a huge success. Often in a field setting the dog will not immediately recognize an obstacle and choose to go over it, but if you can quickly handle them over it that is great. No-no drills teach that skill.

I do not think no-no drill on land will be of terribly much use on the water as a means of decheating, if that's what you're hoping. It does help overall with handling skills. Dogs are so bad at generalizing I don't think they are going to connect the dots on that alone. Of course the message is always "go straight" but since dogs are very poor generalizers we have to teach them all sorts of skills to maintain that (decheating, no-no, swimby, etc).


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