# Beginning Field Class



## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

I thought we discussed this before, but when I searched I could not find it. Our training facility put the project on hold last year, anyway. They have renewed their interest again this year and have asked for my input on what to teach in a beginning (ground zero) field training class. 

Here are some of the things I suggested:

Stressing obedience and manners in blinds and on the line.
Working on HOLD command
Simple marking with increasing distance
Working with birds
Working in water
Beginning whistle sits
Beginning honoring (on leash)

Other thoughts? Most of their target audience would not be interested in e-collars or force fetch, so that would be something to think about. Thanks for your input.


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Nix the last two (whistle sit & honoring).
Work on marking white bumpers on cut grass.
Loose-tab steady
Birds
Take-hold-give
Basic obedience
Water
That should keep you busy.


----------



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

my pro introduces basic casting (to food bowls) when the pups are very young. Easy and fun.


----------



## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

HERE! along with the other line obedience aspects. One of my training partners likes to say that you pass or fail based on what is happening right at your side. If that is not crisp and calmly controlled then the rest of it can fall apart.
Working with a fellow club member right now on introductory field work, and this is the biggest challenge. The dog has tonnes of GO and can mark well, but thinks returning to heel is optional. He will not be able to run and pass a test until this is taken care of.


----------



## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I would definitely emphasize things NOT to do with puppies:

Examples: endless number of retrieves
getting pup into inappropriate water---too cold, muddy, etc.
yelling at pup when it is carrying your underwear


----------



## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

gdgli said:


> I would definitely emphasize things NOT to do with puppies:
> 
> Examples: endless number of retrieves
> getting pup into inappropriate water---too cold, muddy, etc.
> yelling at pup when it is carrying your underwear


Exactly! I was actually going to suggest they have a seperate puppy retriever class to discuss just these items as well as others. The class they are thinking about will be for retrievers who have already been through their beginning and intermediate obedience classes.


----------



## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Based on my beginning field training class, I agree with Anney to nix the whistle sits and honoring. You can try having dogs honor on leash while other dogs are working, but not have it be a focus of the class. Our trainer divided the class into 3 groups when training, one working, one honoring, one running. It worked well, especially for the dogs that initially screamed the whole time other dogs were running. By the end of our class they were just mildly going crazy. 

In addition to general water training, I would set aside a day for showing how to avoid cheating. It was not something I realized could be a huge problem (although obviously experienced field folks know that) but definitely good to know how to deal with it early on.


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> Based on my beginning field training class, I agree with Anney to nix the whistle sits and honoring. You can try having dogs honor on leash while other dogs are working, but not have it be a focus of the class. Our trainer divided the class into 3 groups when training, one working, one honoring, one running. It worked well, especially for the dogs that initially screamed the whole time other dogs were running. By the end of our class they were just mildly going crazy.
> 
> In addition to general water training, I would set aside a day for showing how to avoid cheating. It was not something I realized could be a huge problem (although obviously experienced field folks know that) but definitely good to know how to deal with it early on.


I will say for "Beginners" honestly I don't know how you'd go about honoring before they are steady for their own marks. Cart before the horse and all that. It will probably take them the whole 6 week course (or whatever) to be steady, much less honoring. 
With cheating if the dog is not collar conditioned and doesn't handle, not sure what you can do for it especially with a beginner dog or dogs with not a lot of water experience. What did you guys do in your class?


----------



## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

K9-Design said:


> I will say for "Beginners" honestly I don't know how you'd go about honoring before they are steady for their own marks. Cart before the horse and all that. It will probably take them the whole 6 week course (or whatever) to be steady, much less honoring.
> With cheating if the dog is not collar conditioned and doesn't handle, not sure what you can do for it especially with a beginner dog or dogs with not a lot of water experience. What did you guys do in your class?


I completely agree. Our trainer introduced the concept by having the handler stand with their dog on leash as far away as necessary (i.e. Jack was able to be closer while not being a gigantic PITA and others needed to be 100 feet back) while other dogs ran. It wasn't really "teaching honoring" but more introducing the concept to the dogs. Letting them know that every mark isn't theirs. I don't think one of them was steady at the line by the end of the class, but many were getting there. 

With cheating, our drills involved setting them up for success and certainly weren't at the degree of difficulty you would be doing with a collar. We started with a long straight water mark where the best option for any dog was to return to the handler, since we sent them from a long narrow peninsula that was basically in the middle of the pond. Then we slowly moved the marks closer and closer to the bank across from the peninsula until we were finally on the bank right at the water line, then up onto the bank. If there was any indication of even considering cheating, we took a step back with the dog. I don't think any of them (maybe 1 out of 13 did) actually tried to cheat because they were so used to the water marks, and by the time they finally had a mark on land they just turned right around and came straight back through the water. It was a really good exercise for us.


----------



## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

If it is a beginning puppy class I would nix the the last three. You want that dog on marks and more marks with birds. You can teach line and holding blind manners in training at home but the desire to focus on birds going down would be my choice. If it is a beginning class I want momentum and drive to the bird for a dog just starting out. As far as getting the dog to line you have to balance what you are doing to get the results you want.
Build the drive and momentum first then put in the OB you should have already taught separate from test or training day. Honoring?? Build the drive first.
I am open to differing opinions.


----------



## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Radarsdad said:


> If it is a beginning puppy class I would nix the the last three. You want that dog on marks and more marks with birds. You can teach line and holding blind manners in training at home but the desire to focus on birds going down would be my choice. If it is a beginning class I want momentum and drive to the bird for a dog just starting out. As far as getting the dog to line you have to balance what you are doing to get the results you want.
> Build the drive and momentum first then put in the OB you should have already taught separate from test or training day. Honoring?? Build the drive first.
> I am open to differing opinions.


I think those of us who have been through it with a few dogs understand the importance of that drive, and that the control also takes work, and we rather unconsciously build it in as we go along. I want my baby pups to go, but I also set up the expectation of returning to me in how those early retrieves are taught. We just don't let them get away with too much of those shenanigans, so that it doesn't become a self-reinforcing reward. The Traffic Cop thing that Bill Hillman does in his puppy program is very much about creating that balance, I think.

Often through breed club training days, the dogs coming out are not baby puppies, but closer to a year or even beyond. The ones who have been focusing on formal obedience with experienced trainer/handlers usually have no problem with the line manners aspect and are the ones who sometimes (depending on their breeding and inborn drive) are the ones needing the type of building you describe. Others however have little formal training in them and take it as an opportunity for a freedom party. The boy whose owner I am trying to help can mark and has plenty of drive--he finds the mark, picks it up and then goes on a tour--but it is not a retrieve unless he brings it back!! He tries to drag his owner to line (the pinch collar is our new friend) and twists and struggles over being made to sit for the mark. He basically he challenges his owner for control at every opportunity--for a dog like him the obedience is vital to getting him to understand that she is driving, not him. He will be CC'ed but at this point his recall is just not proofed enough to start that. An early emphasis on praising for returning with the retrieve object, rather than the fun of _going_ being the reward, would have gone a long way to preventing a lot of this.


----------



## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

I would approach teaching the beginning field class with a focus on things to do at home, IE Yardwork and things to work on in the field such as marks and casting drills. 


Basic Obedience is key as everything else is built upon it. Here, Heel and SIT are part of the basic beginner package for Yardwork. Heel work in the yard is where you and the dog learn to read each other and form the basis of communication between you. 


A basic yardwork package should include


Intro to the conventional collar, lead and check cord.
Here, heel and Sit.
Front and Side finish
Remote sit
Whistle sit 
Recall to front
Whistle Recall
Basic heeling pattern drills. 
Intro to bumpers
Intro to frozen birds
Intro to live birds.
Three handed casting.


A basic Field package should include
Intro to helper thrown bumpers, birds and calls.
Short singles on a mowed featureless field. (30 yards or less)
Intermediate singles on a mowed field (100 yards or less)
Intro to the gun.
Marks in short cover
Marks in moderate cover 
Marks in heavy cover
Intro to cover changes
Intro to terrain changes 
Singles into heavy cover across multiple terrain changes.


----------



## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Swampcollie said:


> I would approach teaching the beginning field class with a focus on things to do at home, IE Yardwork and things to work on in the field such as marks and casting drills.
> 
> 
> Basic Obedience is key as everything else is built upon it. Here, Heel and SIT are part of the basic beginner package for Yardwork. Heel work in the yard is where you and the dog learn to read each other and form the basis of communication between you.
> ...


This is a nice, comprehensive summary, Swampy.


----------



## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

sterregold said:


> I think those of us who have been through it with a few dogs understand the importance of that drive, and that the control also takes work, and we rather unconsciously build it in as we go along. I want my baby pups to go, but I also set up the expectation of returning to me in how those early retrieves are taught. We just don't let them get away with too much of those shenanigans, so that it doesn't become a self-reinforcing reward. The Traffic Cop thing that Bill Hillman does in his puppy program is very much about creating that balance, I think.
> 
> Often through breed club training days, the dogs coming out are not baby puppies, but closer to a year or even beyond. The ones who have been focusing on formal obedience with experienced trainer/handlers usually have no problem with the line manners aspect and are the ones who sometimes (depending on their breeding and inborn drive) are the ones needing the type of building you describe. Others however have little formal training in them and take it as an opportunity for a freedom party. The boy whose owner I am trying to help can mark and has plenty of drive--he finds the mark, picks it up and then goes on a tour--but it is not a retrieve unless he brings it back!! He tries to drag his owner to line (the pinch collar is our new friend) and twists and struggles over being made to sit for the mark. He basically he challenges his owner for control at every opportunity--for a dog like him the obedience is vital to getting him to understand that she is driving, not him. He will be CC'ed but at this point his recall is just not proofed enough to start that. An early emphasis on praising for returning with the retrieve object, rather than the fun of _going_ being the reward, would have gone a long way to preventing a lot of this.


Good points I evidently misunderstood your goals and the what you are trying to achieve. Kind of out of the loop of new handlers and dogs. I build OB from the day I get a new pup. The members we have in our club are a little more experienced. By the way that "Traffic Cop" works and I would do it on a dog no matter the age. 



> An early emphasis on praising for returning with the retrieve object, rather than the fun of going being the reward, would have gone a long way to preventing a lot of this.


You are dead on,on this one :appl:


----------



## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Radarsdad said:


> Good points I evidently misunderstood your goals and the what you are trying to achieve. Kind of out of the loop of new handlers and dogs. I build OB from the day I get a new pup. The members we have in our club are a little more experienced. By the way that "Traffic Cop" works and I would do it on a dog no matter the age.


No prob--just my experience with my breed club. Most of our members are conformation folks and a few do some semi-serious obedience work. The serious field folks are a distinct minority!! So when we hold club training days the control issues for dogs with drive are obvious. We tend to have one extreme or the other--from the "Ew, what is that" dogs to the "OMG this is so much fun and I just want to keep it for myself" dogs.


----------



## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Swampy, one addition to the field package. Heeling and sending and returning on both sides. Just a thought.


----------



## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Radarsdad said:


> Swampy, one addition to the field package. Heeling and sending and returning on both sides. Just a thought.


Yep, you could do that too but I usually do those a little later. I was thinking about what I'm usually doing with a 16 to 18 week old puppy.


----------



## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Swampcollie said:


> Yep, you could do that too but I usually do those a little later.* I was thinking about what I'm usually doing with a 16 to 18 week old puppy.*


Here's a question and I really want an opinion. I practice that in the kitchen and or indoors with treats and transition it to work outdoors. My original post to the OP was in that same thought. I did the Hillmann puppy but we did do heeling and returning etc. from both sides. Is that asking too much from the pup at that age??


----------



## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

I don't think it is too much to start shaping that with a little pup. When I did formal obed our instructor actually had us introducing scent discrimination exercises in the Competition Puppy 1 class, and it sticks with them when you actually get to Utility work. Their little minds are so plastic when they are babies that I think it is an excellent time to start imprinting these expectations on them--an the cue of a hand to one side or the other with the labels of heel and side is really adding in only one more skill.

It isn't something I try to teach my dogs any more--I know it can give an advantage in some situations, but I have a very difficult time telling where the dog is pointed when on my right--something to do with my wonky eyes.


----------

