# How much to feed?



## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

I recently switched Molly to a new food. So far so good, she has less gas already and her coat is softer and smoother. My problem is, her old food was 496 calories a cup, 30% protein. I fed 2 cups a day. According to the math, I needed to feed 2.25 cups of the new food to be close in calories and protein content (435 calories, 25% protein but I also add a boiled egg every day for extra protein). Her stools had been HUGE and sometimes too soft (but still formed) until I decreased each meal to 4/5 cup and now they are more normal sized and firm. But is she getting enough protein and calories?? Will she lose muscle with so little food? 


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## Mosby's Mom (Oct 19, 2011)

I play the "how much food" game with Mosby constantly. And honestly, some weeks he needs more food then others because he's an insanely active dog - when he starts to look a little thin, or we weigh him and he's lost the tiniest bit of weight, his food is increased. I'm not sure if there is a way to really know if she will lose muscle/weight on her current amount of food until she's been on it a while and you watch her and see that she's lost the weight.

I sometimes also wonder if different foods are used differently by dogs - is there a different type of protein in this food? A different starch? Mosby, for one, seems to lose weight on fish-based kibbles no matter how many calories/protein/fat the bag says are in the food. But on other proteins he doesn't have that problem.


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## goldhaven (Sep 3, 2009)

I may be wrong but I don't think she will loose muscle with too little food. I think she will loose weight. I believe that she will loose muscle with too little exercise. As long as she is getting enough exercise and not loosing weight, I don't think you need to increase food.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

It is a different protein and while it is not grain free it has less grains. We went from chicken and rice to duck and pear and the grain source is oats. I read that too much food could cause large and soft stool so that was what caused me to try reducing it. It's just a bit concerning that she needed 1000 calories of her old food (and even more in the summer) and now only 700 of the new. I'm not sure if that means ultimately this isn't the right food for her.. 

It's a little more difficult since she is still a puppy; I don't know if she should still be gaining weight, but she has only gained 1 lb the last two months on her old food. 

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## Mosby's Mom (Oct 19, 2011)

Since it is a different protein and a different grain, if it were me, I would probably wait it out and see how she does on the amount of food that is giving her the best stools. Perhaps she's actually using the duck and oats better? I would just watch and make sure she isn't losing weight, especially if you think she looks to be a good weight and because she's still a puppy.


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## goldhaven (Sep 3, 2009)

I don't think that the calorie count is always accurate. You mentioned some HUGE stools. I think that the higher quality dog food will make them poop less because they are utilizing more of it, and a lower quality dog food, or over feeding will cause them to have more and larger stools. 
I once heard that beneful was one of the worst dog foods on the market. I was told that it was 70% waste. I have no idea if this is true or not but I had a dog here for boarding that was on beneful and he had huge stools about 3 - 4 times a day. I used to call his bag of beneful "doggy crack". I had to keep it out of reach of my girls because they would tear open the bag to get at it, and eat every bit of it. :doh:They have never done this with any other dog food.


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## Mosby's Mom (Oct 19, 2011)

FWIW - when Mosby was eating a fish based kibble, it had 480 cal/cup and on 3 cups he was still losing weight. Now he eats a tukey based kibble that is only 420 cal/cup and gets 2.5-3 cups and has put back on the weight that he lost and needed. I try to go more by how my dog looks then what the bag says.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

goldhaven said:


> I don't think that the calorie count is always accurate. You mentioned some HUGE stools. I think that the higher quality dog food will make them poop less because they are utilizing more of it, and a lower quality dog food, or over feeding will cause them to have more and larger stools.
> I once heard that beneful was one of the worst dog foods on the market. I was told that it was 70% waste. I have no idea if this is true or not but I had a dog here for boarding that was on beneful and he had huge stools about 3 - 4 times a day. I used to call his bag of beneful "doggy crack". I had to keep it out of reach of my girls because they would tear open the bag to get at it, and eat every bit of it. :doh:They have never done this with any other dog food.


I switched from ProPlan Performance to Acana Duck and Bartlett Pear. *Theoretically* the Acana should be higher quality. I have nothing against ProPlan, but Molly has gotten increasingly itchy, yeasty ears, gassy, etc. 

Maybe Molly isn't utilizing one of the main ingredients in the Acana for some reason..


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Mosby's Mom said:


> FWIW - when Mosby was eating a fish based kibble, it had 480 cal/cup and on 3 cups he was still losing weight. Now he eats a tukey based kibble that is only 420 cal/cup and gets 2.5-3 cups and has put back on the weight that he lost and needed. I try to go more by how my dog looks then what the bag says.


Was the protein content the same for both foods? I am not sure if I'm thinking protein content plays a larger role than it actually does..


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## Mosby's Mom (Oct 19, 2011)

Vhuynh2 said:


> Was the protein content the same for both foods? I am not sure if I'm thinking protein content plays a larger role than it actually does..
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


 
Let's see: Fish food was 35/15 (protein/fat) and turkey food is 26/12. Both grain-free. 

Mo does get protein in other ways (all of his treats are freeze dried meats or meat I buy at the butcher and cook and cut up myself, and he gets tripe a few times a week), BUT this was the same on both foods.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

How much does Molly weigh now? And what is her shape like? How much exercise does she do?

My inclination would be to feed a little less if the stools are huge and soft when you feed more but better when you feed less. I would either weigh her each week or feel her ribs each week if you feel comfortable judging based on that. I stay roughly in the two cups a day range with Riley and he is about 58 pounds but I'll do more or less depending on exercise levels and how he is feeling.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Mosby's Mom said:


> Let's see: Fish food was 35/15 (protein/fat) and turkey food is 26/12. Both grain-free.
> 
> Mo does get protein in other ways (all of his treats are freeze dried meats or meat I buy at the butcher and cook and cut up myself, and he gets tripe a few times a week), BUT this was the same on both foods.


Wow, that is surprising! I would think keeping weight on the fish food would be MUCH easier. I guess I won't worry too much about the protein/fat content.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

vcm5 said:


> How much does Molly weigh now? And what is her shape like? How much exercise does she do?
> 
> My inclination would be to feed a little less if the stools are huge and soft when you feed more but better when you feed less. I would either weigh her each week or feel her ribs each week if you feel comfortable judging based on that. I stay roughly in the two cups a day range with Riley and he is about 58 pounds but I'll do more or less depending on exercise levels and how he is feeling.


She's 51-52 lbs and she has the "hourglass" figure and obvious tuck. I can easily feel her ribs. She gets 1 hour of off leash walking/romping, 10 mins of fetch, and 3 short walks. A couple times a week she swims.

I think I'll see how she is at the end of the bag. Maybe her metabolism is slowing down as she is entering adulthood. 


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## Mosby's Mom (Oct 19, 2011)

Vhuynh2 said:


> Maybe her metabolism is slowing down as she is entering adulthood.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


I was just coming back to say THIS  Perhaps those stools were her body's way of letting you that she isn't a growing puppy anymore!


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

I forgot to mention her energy levels seem to be lower. After one hour of off leash romping she will sleep for a long time. In the summer she got at least twice the amount of exercise and didn't seem as tired at the end of the day. I'm not sure if it's the lack of calories/protein or she's growing up. It's really not a good time to make a food switch I guess.. 


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

Vhuynh2 said:


> I switched from ProPlan Performance to Acana Duck and Bartlett Pear. *Theoretically* the Acana should be higher quality.
> 
> Maybe Molly isn't utilizing one of the main ingredients in the Acana for some reason..
> 
> ...


I tried to switch my golden girls to Acana this summer, and I had the same problem, large soft poops that eventually became diarrhea. I stuck it out for about 4 months, a few vet trips, a number of stool samples and a course of metronidazole and I finally had to switch back to their old food. Acana doesn't work for every dog.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Millie'sMom said:


> I tried to switch my golden girls to Acana this summer, and I had the same problem, large soft poops that eventually became diarrhea. I stuck it out for about 4 months, a few vet trips, a number of stool samples and a course of metronidazole and I finally had to switch back to their old food. Acana doesn't work for every dog.


It's not that it's not working for her -- her stools are fine now that I have decreased the amount I'm feeding. I'm just worried she's not getting enough calories.


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

Vhuynh2 said:


> It's not that it's not working for her -- her stools are fine now that I have decreased the amount I'm feeding. I'm just worried she's not getting enough calories.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


Sorry, I must have misread the post. Giving her an egg is providing her with almost pure protein and very few calories aprrox 70 cal for a large egg.I don't think it could hurt, and is such a good idea, I may start doing it with mine. 

Could you give her a small extra meal, replacing the missing calories? If I remember correctly, and university was a long time ago, with any type of weight loss, lean muscle maybe lost. The best way to prevent this muscle loss it through adequate protein and exercise. My younger girl is very thin and very active and I have had to start giving her an extra "meal" (1/2 cup of kibble) at lunch, to keep weight on her and prevent her from losing muscle.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Millie'sMom said:


> Sorry, I must have misread the post. Giving her an egg is providing her with almost pure protein and very few calories aprrox 70 cal for a large egg.I don't think it could hurt, and is such a good idea, I may start doing it with mine.
> 
> Could you give her a small extra meal, replacing the missing calories? If I remember correctly, and university was a long time ago, with any type of weight loss, lean muscle maybe lost. The best way to prevent this muscle loss it through adequate protein and exercise. My younger girl is very thin and very active and I have had to start giving her an extra "meal" (1/2 cup of kibble) at lunch, to keep weight on her and prevent her from losing muscle.


I started giving her one boiled egg a day when she started on the Acana. I am hoping to make up for the lost protein but now I may need to feed two eggs a day to make up for it, which is probably too many.

I might try giving her an extra small meal/snack if she starts to lose weight. It's only been 8 days on the new food though, so I don't know if it will even work out in the long run. 

Did your vet say to try the new food for at least 4 months?


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## desi.n.nutro (Mar 18, 2011)

My take so far;
1.Calories, protein/fat, activity levels, stool quality, body image...... ALL important. Unless a pup WORKS, and works a lot, or a Vet has recommended other-wise, IMO should not get more than 30% protien. 
2.Duck, pea, pear, and oats are some dang good (and novel) ingredients. Changing up proteins is always a good idea.
3.Feeding guildlines are set based on calorie content usually but there are sooooo many other factors. 
You are a good parent trying to get it the most right you can. Good for you!


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

Vhuynh2 said:


> I started giving her one boiled egg a day when she started on the Acana. I am hoping to make up for the lost protein but now I may need to feed two eggs a day to make up for it, which is probably too many.
> 
> I might try giving her an extra small meal/snack if she starts to lose weight. It's only been 8 days on the new food though, so I don't know if it will even work out in the long run.
> 
> ...


My vet is pretty laid back about food. I wanted to give my dogs, what I thought was a better quality food and she had no issues with Acana. When we started having problems, she did not to automatically blame it on the food, hence the stool samples and metro pills and she did want to give them time to adjust to the new food. A big pet peeve of hers is owners bouncing around from new food to new food without allowing the dog to get used to it or blaming it on allergies at the first sign of trouble. She was the one who suggested that I go back to the food they had both done well on since weaning.

If you feel you need or would like to give her more egg, how about 2 small hardboiled ones (108 cal) vs 1 1/2 large ones (105 cal)?


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## desi.n.nutro (Mar 18, 2011)

Millie'sMom said:


> My vet is pretty laid back about food. I wanted to give my dogs, what I thought was a better quality food and she had no issues with Acana. When we started having problems, she did not to automatically blame it on the food, hence the stool samples and metro pills and she did want to give them time to adjust to the new food. A big pet peeve of hers is owners bouncing around from new food to new food without allowing the dog to get used to it or blaming it on allergies at the first sign of trouble. She was the one who suggested that I go back to the food they had both done well on since weaning.QUOTE]
> 
> Nice! Sounds like a good Vet! However; Food is usually a less expensive and less invasive way to attempt to resolve certain issues. I see why some folks go there first. It is easy and often successful. Still, I think your Vet is wise to realize that food is less often the issue.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

I don't want to keep switching, but if I have to supplement her with extra protein and calories I feel like I might as well just feed another food.


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

Vhuynh2 said:


> I don't want to keep switching, but if I have to supplement her with extra protein and calories I feel like I might as well just feed another food.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


Good point. Keep an eye on her weight over the next little while, then you can make an informed decision. Does your vet let you walk in an use their scale? It is most accurate to weigh them on the same scale every time, as each different scale is calibrated a little differently. That is one thing that was drilled into us at university, if you are watching your weight, it is not the numbers on the scale that count, it is the difference in the numbers on the scale from the last weighing. I also found that their coats were not as nice on the Acana, but that may have been because it was not agreeing with them.

A small extra snack midday or before bedtime may be all you need if she is starting to look skinny. I had yet to meet a golden that would turn up their nose at a midday snack


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## Mosby's Mom (Oct 19, 2011)

Vhuynh2 said:


> I forgot to mention her energy levels seem to be lower. After one hour of off leash romping she will sleep for a long time. In the summer she got at least twice the amount of exercise and didn't seem as tired at the end of the day. I'm not sure if it's the lack of calories/protein or she's growing up. It's really not a good time to make a food switch I guess..
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


For me, energy levels are the most important thing - Mosby is a very energetic dog, and if his energy levels seemed noticeably different on a food, even if everything else was great, that is reason enough for me to know the food isn't working for him. Although, if you said Molly has only been on the new food for 8 days, I would wait it out until she's been on the food more like 8 weeks.


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## Keragold (May 9, 2008)

Trying to calculate how much to feed your dog based on a calorie count is problematic. You need to look at the digestibilty of the ingredients in the food which will also account for different stool volumes. Usually the pet food manufacturer has taken all of the factors into account when formulating their feeding guidelines which is why you will see foods with the same or similar calorie content listing vastly different feeding suggestions. You can use these guidelines as a starting point to decide how much to feed and adjust from there once you see how your dog is doing. Unfortunately, it's going to become even more difficult to understand how much to feed your dog based on the calorie count of any given product alone. The AAFCO is about to sign off on a new labelling rule which will regulate how pet food manufacturers list the calorie content on their products. It goes like this. The calorie count will be determined by the amount of protein, fat, fiber etc listed for each diet, regardless of the ingredients that make up the food. Currently each pet food manufacturer determines their own calorie content so they are able to take digestibility into account. With the new regulation there is going to be no accounting for digestibilty of the food ingredients, so you could have the food with the worst ingredients in the world listing the same calorie count as the best, because it will all be based on numbers not ingredients. The only thing left for pet food manufacturers to help you to determine how much to feed your dog will be the feeding guidelines. So be aware, and also understand that some manufacturers have already changed their bags to reflect the new regulations. It may look like they have changed their formula because of a new calorie count on the bag, but if the feeding guidelines have not changed then they have probably been proactive and changed their bags before the new regualtion takes effect next year.


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## Melfice (Aug 4, 2012)

Rusty is 6 1/2 months, and weighs 59 pounds. I feed him 3 cups a day (two meals split up). Is that enough for him? Online says it should be 4 1/2 cups etc.


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## Keragold (May 9, 2008)

Personally I always find the feeding guidelines on bags are a little on the heavy side. But it depends on the dog. If Rusty has a waistline, and you are able to feel his ribs without digging for them, then he is in good weight and you are feeding him the right amount. If you can feel his spine and/or hipbones he may be a little on the thin side and you need to give him more. If he has no waistline and you have trouble finding his ribs, he is too fat.....a big no no for large breeds. Feeding guideline are only that...guidelines. You can use them as a starting point, but they are not written in stone.


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## xoerika620xo (May 25, 2012)

Keragold said:


> Personally I always find the feeding guidelines on bags are a little on the heavy side. But it depends on the dog. If Rusty has a waistline, and you are able to feel his ribs without digging for them, then he is in good weight and you are feeding him the right amount. If you can feel his spine and/or hipbones he may be a little on the thin side and you need to give him more. If he has no waistline and you have trouble finding his ribs, he is too fat.....a big no no for large breeds. Feeding guideline are only that...guidelines. You can use them as a starting point, but they are not written in stone.


I agree with this. I was feeding Chester 2 cups a day and was noticing he looked a bit too thin once I boosted an extra cup he looks healthy. I can feel his ribs and can see his waistline with no problem. 


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