# Red and bulging eyes........



## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

Could she have scratched the eye on something? Or maybe gotten something embedded in it? Can she see OK? Any tearing of the eye, or pawing at or rubbing it? I'd definitely have a vet check it. Eyes are not something to mess around with. Hope Karlie will be OK and that the problem isn't anything serious. Please let us know what the vet says.


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## Ronna (Mar 24, 2007)

Jackson'sMom said:


> Could she have scratched the eye on something? Or maybe gotten something embedded in it? Can she see OK? Any tearing of the eye, or pawing at or rubbing it? I'd definitely have a vet check it. Eyes are not something to mess around with. Hope Karlie will be OK and that the problem isn't anything serious. Please let us know what the vet says.


Thanks for your concern, but it isn't like there is something in her eye, it is that they both are swollen looking. I should have taken a picture of her before posting, but she has retired for the evening. No rubbing, pawing etc. she just looks like a cartoon. 

I know that this is nothing to mess around with and I agreee that I will call the vet in the am. 

My girl Karlie is the Love of my life and I hope will be better real soon. Thanks for taking the time to respond to the post.

Ronna
Dallie & Karlie


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

Could you try some Benedryl? See if that helps. I'd call the Vet clinic (Emergency if necessary) and ask the dosage.

They do make Benedryl strips too. Just place on tongue and they disintegrate instantly. We always have that stuff handy.

Oh...and have you taken a cool washcloth (very wet) and wiped over her eyes? I do that if one of ours has any irritation. I also wash off their muzzle and head to remove any pollens.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

Ronna said:


> she has retired for the evening.


I like that she has 'retired' for the evening! Sounds very regal!!


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## Ronna (Mar 24, 2007)

Ardeagold said:


> Could you try some Benedryl? See if that helps. I'd call the Vet clinic (Emergency if necessary) and ask the dosage.
> 
> They do make Benedryl strips too. Just place on tongue and they disintegrate instantly. We always have that stuff handy.
> 
> Oh...and have you taken a cool washcloth (very wet) and wiped over her eyes? I do that if one of ours has any irritation. I also wash off their muzzle and head to remove any pollens.


That's a good idea the Benedryl, I have some and I think that would be a great idea-! It certainly won't hurt her. I already have the dosages worked out because of all the bee's in the summer.

Thanks
Ronna
Dallie & Karlie


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## Ronna (Mar 24, 2007)

Jackson'sMom said:


> I like that she has 'retired' for the evening! Sounds very regal!!


Is it so obvious that she may be spoiled???? or was it the trip to England a few years ago that gave me away, or too many James Bond movies???

Ronna
Dallie & Karlie


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## Heidi36oh (Feb 27, 2007)

Could it be pink eye, seems like a lot of dogs been getting it around here?
Are her eyes red and matted?


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## Ronna (Mar 24, 2007)

Heidi36oh said:


> Could it be pink eye, seems like a lot of dogs been getting it around here?
> Are her eyes red and matted?


 
They are red, but I don't know what you mean by matted??

Ronna
Dallie & Karlie

I have to go to bed soon as I am way too tired........


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Ronna said:


> Karlie has this bulging eye problem again and I would appreciate some feedback from you guys. The last time my vet gave her drops and some Predisone to clear up the problem. She felt it was an allergy to something and I am in agreement with her. I let Dallie and her loose before I went away and they were running through the bush together for about an hour.
> 
> What is your take on what she may have wrong with her?? I just returned from Ottawa and will be calling the vet tomorrow.
> 
> ...


I was just at The Animal Ophthalmology Center in Williamston, MI to see Dr. Ramsey, and he gave me a copy of a paper he published. It was about what you are describing. I will get it for you, and see if I can find the link to it.

I just got the article - it is Bilateral Extraocular Polymyositis. Dr. Ramsey said that it is more common in female Golden Retrievers, the median age of onset is 8 months, and that it usually ist triggered by a stressor - spaying, heat cycle, castration, boarding at a kennel, etc. and recurrs. Treatment is with cortocosteroids, but he is now using a new drug called Atopica 30mg/kg one daily. You might mention this to your vet.


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## Heidi36oh (Feb 27, 2007)

sorry one of my made up words LOL (I make up words and sometimes people don't know what I'm talking about, I'm from germany, does that explain why I make up words..LOL), is there a discharge, yellow or green


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## Ronna (Mar 24, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> I was just at The Animal Ophthalmology Center in Williamston, MI to see Dr. Ramsey, and he gave me a copy of a paper he published. It was about what you are describing. I will get it for you, and see if I can find the link to it.
> 
> I just got the article - it is Bilateral Extraocular Polymyositis. Dr. Ramsey said that it is more common in female Golden Retrievers, the median age of onset is 8 months, and that it usually ist triggered by a stressor - spaying, heat cycle, castration, boarding at a kennel, etc. and recurrs. Treatment is with cortocosteroids, but he is now using a new drug called Atopica 30mg/kg one daily. You might mention this to your vet.


After reading your above response, I believe you have just given me the proper diagnosis. The first time was I think around eight months and she hasn't had it since. I will be taking your comment to my vet for her opinion........thank you so much for your comments. I really think you nailed it here!!!! 


My late father had the disease polymyositis so I will be researching this condition throughly. 

Ronna
Dallie & Karlie

If you could pm me the article I would really appreciate it!


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I hope you get to the bottom of the problem now. In humans, the protruding eyes can thyroid, but hyper and the problem doesn't resolve without treatment. I was also told dogs don't usually suffer from hyperthyroid issues.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Ronna said:


> After reading your above response, I believe you have just given me the proper diagnosis. The first time was I think around eight months and she hasn't had it since. I will be taking your comment to my vet for her opinion........thank you so much for your comments. I really think you nailed it here!!!!
> 
> 
> My late father had the disease polymyositis so I will be researching this condition throughly.
> ...


 
Ronna, here is the link to Dr. Ramsey's clinic (it is state of the art - amazing) http://www.eye-vet.com/ and Dr. Ramsey himself is a great guy - passionate about his work.

I'll try to find a link to the article for you...


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## Ronna (Mar 24, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> Ronna, here is the link to Dr. Ramsey's clinic (it is state of the art - amazing) http://www.eye-vet.com/ and Dr. Ramsey himself is a great guy - passionate about his work.
> 
> I'll try to find a link to the article for you...


 
thanks so much for the link and I have bookmarked it. I really appreciate the time you have taken to try to help my dear Karlie. She doesn't seem to be in any distress at all, but she looks dreadful. I will post a picture shortly

Ronna
Dallie & Karlie:wavey:


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Found it!
http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00521.htm


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## Ronna (Mar 24, 2007)

Here is a close up of Karlie's eyes. I don't know if I have really captured her problem, but it was the best that I could do for now.

Ronna
Dallie & Karlie


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Ronna said:


> thanks so much for the link and I have bookmarked it. I really appreciate the time you have taken to try to help my dear Karlie. She doesn't seem to be in any distress at all, but she looks dreadful. I will post a picture shortly
> 
> Ronna
> Dallie & Karlie:wavey:


 
Dr Ramsey spent a lot of time with us last Wednesday. We'd gone for CERF clearances, and just started talking. He loves to talk ophthalmology, and he shared the info on BEP with us because I'd told him about a dog who'd gotten a concussion and her eyes bulged ( she cleared CERF without any permanent damage, thank goodness) but he showed me pics of BEP which looked very similar. We talked about how one of his patients would have a recurrance every time she came into season, and another after boarding. It was very interesting. Your description just rung familiar. I am sure that Dr. Ramsey would be pleased to speak with your vet. Let me know how it goes.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Ronna said:


> Here is a close up of Karlie's eyes. I don't know if I have really captured her problem, but it was the best that I could do for now.
> 
> Ronna
> Dallie & Karlie


 
This looks very much like the photos that Dr. Ramsey shared with us. Some were mild cases, others so severe that the orbits looked about to burst.


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## Ronna (Mar 24, 2007)

I am printing out the article as I type this. I agree that she does resemble the photo of Bilateral Extraocular Polymyositis. My photo does not even show it very well, but you can see the bulging a bit.

Thanks again Pointgold and I will let you know how I make out this week with her.

Ronna
Dallie & Karlie


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

What about uveitis? Also very common in Goldens.

Can you get an appt. with a board certified opthamologist?


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> What about uveitis? Also very common in Goldens.
> 
> Can you get an appt. with a board certified opthamologist?


 
I'd certainly recommend seeing an opthalmologist, if possible. While uveitis is a possibility, the fact that Karlie's issue seems to go away, and then recur, suggests that it is either an allergic reaction or BEP. From the photo, it looks as if her eyes tend to turn outward, which is one of the clinical symptoms of BEP along with the orbits themselves actually swelling. Dr. Ramsey showed us slides and photos of normal eyes and of those affected with BEP. Interesting stuff... and he believes that many dogs seen by regular practioners for eye issues diagnosed as allergies are actually BEP. Because many of the allergies are treated with ophthalmics containing steroid, the symptoms go away, only to recur at another time, just as would allergies, and BEP is treated with steroids, as well. He is using a new drug with great success.


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## Ronna (Mar 24, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> What about uveitis? Also very common in Goldens.
> 
> Can you get an appt. with a board certified opthamologist?


Hi Stehanie:
I don't think there are any opthamologists in my area, but what I think I will do is check with the vet (she is good) and see if she can refer me to get Karlie checked out. We are approx. 2 hours from Ottawa and I am sure there must be one practicing there. 

Ronna
Dallie & Karlie:wavey:


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## Ronna (Mar 24, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> I'd certainly recommend seeing an opthalmologist, if possible. While uveitis is a possibility, the fact that Karlie's issue seems to go away, and then recur, suggests that it is either an allergic reaction or BEP. From the photo, it looks as if her eyes tend to turn outward, which is one of the clinical symptoms of BEP along with the orbits themselves actually swelling. Dr. Ramsey showed us slides and photos of normal eyes and of those affected with BEP. Interesting stuff... and he believes that many dogs seen by regular practioners for eye issues diagnosed as allergies are actually BEP. Because many of the allergies are treated with ophthalmics containing steroid, the symptoms go away, only to recur at another time, just as would allergies, and BEP is treated with steroids, as well. He is using a new drug with great success.


 
I just looked back in her medical record to see when the last outbreak was and it was August 29 2007. She then ordered Pentasone 7.5 ml and Vanectyl P drops. She was better in four days. No symptoms since at all. 

Ronna


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Ronna said:


> I just looked back in her medical record to see when the last outbreak was and it was August 29 2007. She then ordered Pentasone 7.5 ml and Vanectyl P drops. She was better in four days. No symptoms since at all.
> 
> Ronna


 
Has anything occurred that could be considered a "stressor"? Any illness, changes in schedules, moves, boarding, surgeries, etc? Dr. Ramsey said that not all outbreaks are stressor triggered, many are.


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## Ronna (Mar 24, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> Has anything occurred that could be considered a "stressor"? Any illness, changes in schedules, moves, boarding, surgeries, etc? Dr. Ramsey said that not all outbreaks are stressor triggered, many are.


 
Not anything that I would call a stressor. She is 13 months and we have been having to tell her NO from time to time to correct her behaviour, but nothing I can think of. She is a bit defiant right now, with a touch of independance??? She loves to tear into the bush when opportunity presents itself. The only difference I can think of is that the snow is melting and the grass trees smell lovely and fresh after being covered up since November 20th!!!!! 

Ronna


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Ronna, how is Karlie doing? Were you able to have her checked?


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