# Field golden



## jonesyboy (Sep 20, 2008)

I've read the term "field golden" several times on here - what does it mean??

Thanks.

Sue


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## jwemt81 (Aug 20, 2008)

The field goldens are usually a bit smaller than other goldens and their coats aren't quite as heavy. They are usually dark red. My aunt and uncle used to have a field golden when I was a kid. That's the only reason I know this.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Here is field-bred golden Gus








and conformation -bred








and our field bred Finn


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Here is the female version of a field line.....


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

A "field" Golden refers more to a "type" than it actually does to the breeding. It normally refers to a smaller, finer boned, less coated Golden.
While many field trainers prefer this type there are many Goldens bred to do field work that do not fit this description. 
Hope that helps explain.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

*Generally* speaking, "field" Goldens tend to run a bit higher-drive than conformation Goldens. Not that there aren't drivey conformation Goldens out there, but if I had to make a sweeping generalization, that's what it would be.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Here is my "field" golden. He isn't small though. He is taller than my other two dogs and weighs 78 lbs.









Here is my "show" golden. He is sort of small. He weighs 63 lbs.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

I suspect that Tia comes from field lines, given her small size (also probably due to having been bred early and often) and lack of a long, thick luxurious coat. She also is the most energetic golden I've ever had. She would retrieve a ball for hours, rest a bit, then be ready to go again. She's a light blonde color. Do my assumptions appear correct?


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Jackson'sMom said:


> I suspect that Tia comes from field lines, given her small size (also probably due to having been bred early and often) and lack of a long, thick luxurious coat. She also is the most energetic golden I've ever had. She would retrieve a ball for hours, rest a bit, then be ready to go again. She's a light blonde color. Do my assumptions appear correct?


Truly no way to tell without seeing the pedigree. Many puppy mill and BYB dogs fit the "field" type but I would never refer to them as "field bred/field lines". And I do not think high energy is a "field" trait. I have seen many more what folks refer to as "high energy" Goldens that were "conformation" bred than "field" bred. When people hear this term, high energy, they picture a dog who does not know how to settle. But that is another can of worms that I would rather not get into. :no:


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## FranH (May 8, 2005)

Our "field" golden Rosie....


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

:smooch:Also, to me, "field" means a dog who is driven to work as a retriever of ducks. A field retreiver will have titles in their pedigrees like SH, MH after their names, more than Ch in front. Also FC,AFC,NFC . . ."Field" titles can be also a way of predicting birdyness and retrieving drive by seeing what ancestors have done in field trials and hunt tests. They often compete against labs& chessies etc. Sometimes very serious field trialers don't warmly welcome show ring labs and goldens who want to "put" a junior hunt title on a dog.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Ljilly28 said:


> Sometimes very serious field trialers don't warmly welcome show ring labs and goldens who want to "put" a junior hunt title on a dog.


They don't always warmly-welcome the "city kid" who comes out with her "obedience Golden" either!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

AmbikaGR said:


> Truly no way to tell without seeing the pedigree. Many puppy mill and BYB dogs fit the "field" type but I would never refer to them as "field bred/field lines". _And I do not think high energy is a "field" trait._ :


Maybe I tend to see it that way b/c a lot of the heavy conformation dogs in this are have become, um, well..... big, beautiful.... and kinda lazy! :no: They just don't strike me as any kind of "working" dog. I actually refer to them as Malibu Barbie Goldens. Similar thing happened with Border Collies. The "conformation" Border Collies are so far from a working Collie... We call those "Barbie Collies" too! Compared to a true working BC, or even a moderate BC, the "Barbie Collies" are downright FLAT!


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> Sometimes very serious field trialers don't warmly welcome show ring labs and goldens who want to "put" a junior hunt title on a dog.





FlyingQuizini said:


> They don't always warmly-welcome the "city kid" who comes out with her "obedience Golden" either!


As I always say there are jerks in all walks of life. Please don't assume the above situations to be the norm. I know many "serious" field trial people who welcome newbies all the time. The key is the newbie needs to understand that they must be prepared to work there share and then some during training. And I know FlyingQuizini and Ljilly28 would both be willing to do just that. You ladies just need to find the right group. Some of the most patient and knowledgeable trainers I have had the pleasure to train with were among the top trialers. But I hav also dealt with those that felt I was not worth the time of day.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

AmbikaGR said:


> As I always say there are jerks in all walks of life. Please don't assume the above situations to be the norm. I know many "serious" field trial people who welcome newbies all the time. The key is the newbie needs to understand that they must be prepared to work there share and then some during training. And I know FlyingQuizini and Ljilly28 would both be willing to do just that. You ladies just need to find the right group. Some of the most patient and knowledgeable trainers I have had the pleasure to train with were among the top trialers. But I hav also dealt with those that felt I was not worth the time of day.


Oh of course... and please know that in no way did I mean to make a sweeping generalization and besmirch "hard core field people". Most of the people I encountered during my brief time in field work were quite nice, supportive, complimentary of my dog and overall encouraging. The "city kid" moments were rare -- and frankly, when I managed to get my truck stuck in the mud at a trial site, I probably had it coming!


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## dannyra (Aug 5, 2008)

> and frankly, when I managed to get my truck stuck in the mud at a trial site, I probably had it coming!


I'm sorry, I just had to let you know I blew Dr. Pepper all over my monitor when reading that line of your post.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Maybe I tend to see it that way b/c a lot of the heavy conformation dogs in this are have become, um, well..... big, beautiful.... and kinda lazy! :no: They just don't strike me as any kind of "working" dog. I actually refer to them as Malibu Barbie Goldens. Similar thing happened with Border Collies. The "conformation" Border Collies are so far from a working Collie... We call those "Barbie Collies" too! Compared to a true working BC, or even a moderate BC, the "Barbie Collies" are downright FLAT!


Stephanie
While I do understand what you mean, where I have the problem is the "generalization" of the statement, "high energy". Here are some very good "field" dogs of the last decade. All have/had amazing enregy levels but all with an on/off switch. This is truly more the norm for "field bred" lines. 
Hope this helps to explain my position. 
Am. CH. Amigold On A Wing N A Prayer CD MH WCX VCX DDHF OS***
AFC AFTCH Rosehill's Mr Speaker MH OS CCA FDHF
Can. Dual CH AFTCH Firemark's Push Comes to Shove Am.*** OS
FC AFC OTCH FTCH AFTCH Can MOTCH TNT's Stanley Steamer UDX, WCX , MH, OBHF, FDHF, OS
FC AFC FTCH AFTCH Can. OTCH TNT's Explosion Am. UD, FDHF, OS Cdn FDHF, OBHF
FC AFC OTCH Topbrass Ascending Elijah OS/FDHF
There are others but these come to mind at this moment.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

AmbikaGR said:


> As I always say there are jerks in all walks of life. Please don't assume the above situations to be the norm. I know many "serious" field trial people who welcome newbies all the time. The key is the newbie needs to understand that they must be prepared to work there share and then some during training. And I know FlyingQuizini and Ljilly28 would both be willing to do just that. You ladies just need to find the right group. Some of the most patient and knowledgeable trainers I have had the pleasure to train with were among the top trialers. But I hav also dealt with those that felt I was not worth the time of day.


Well, I love and adore my Malibu Barbie golden, but I do hide him from the group of awesome field trialers here in Maine who love Finn. You think I'm kidding, but I'm not! Lots of the dogs who I think of as versatile goldens and sort of revere, they say are "overdone fluffies" who are hard to watch as they lumber through JH tests. Someday, when I pass an MH test, I will defend my dog-heroes. Until then, I keep my mouth shut and hide my barbie golden lol.

Hank, is high prey drive better terminology than high energy? We have several goldens in the family with some of the dogs you listed featured pretty prominently in backgrounds. All are livable, lovable,sane house dogs with off switches, but all have much more explosive prey drive outside than our more conformation-lined goldens. My parents& sibling are all golden-crazy- you should see holidays with even more retrievers than children/grandchildren


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

No pedigree here but Abby is surely field lines. This picture is when she was two:


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

My son's Lab is a hunting field line....and run rings around Lucky as he sits there dumbfounded . This is a dog that can go, go, go and needs alot of exercise. Perhaps in a year or two Lily will learn to "shut it off" but for now.....


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> Hank, is high prey drive better terminology than high energy? We have several goldens in the family with some of the dogs you listed featured pretty prominently in backgrounds. All are livable, lovable,sane house dogs with off switches, but all have much more explosive prey drive outside than our more conformation-lined goldens. My parents& sibling are all golden-crazy- you should see holidays with even more retrievers than children/grandchildren


Not really, they are two different things in my mind. Both very important for a field dog but not always tied together. Prey drive would normally kick in when they see something like a squirrel, rabbit, bird etc. At this time my puppy has more prey drive than any dog I have ever had. But her energy level is not always up to that of the rest of the group. But when "field" training her energy is over the top and never seems to deminish.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Thanks! That is a very useful distinction for me. It makes me so satisfied to learn a small new thing like that. Appreciate it it very much.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> Thanks! That is a very useful distinction for me. It makes me so satisfied to learn a small new thing like that. Appreciate it it very much.


Just remember that is the opinion of one very insignificant man.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I think we might be saying pretty much the same thing. I don't at all mean to say that high energy dog won't have an off switch. The well-bred/well-trained ones certainly do. To me, there's still a visible energy difference between a "field" and "conformation" Golden. 

This is not to say that *any* Golden who is considered to have lots of energy is therefore automatically considered a "field" Golden. BUT - you put two Goldens out on a bird, and assuming they both have a desire to go get it, if I *had* to generalize, I'd bet you'd see more drive out of the "field" Golden than the "conformation" Golden.



AmbikaGR said:


> Stephanie
> While I do understand what you mean, where I have the problem is the "generalization" of the statement, "high energy". Here are some very good "field" dogs of the last decade. All have/had amazing enregy levels but all with an on/off switch. This is truly more the norm for "field bred" lines.
> Hope this helps to explain my position.
> Am. CH. Amigold On A Wing N A Prayer CD MH WCX VCX DDHF OS***
> ...


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> out on a bird, and assuming they both have a desire to go get it, if I *had* to generalize, I'd bet you'd see more drive out of the "field" Golden than the "conformation" Golden.


I will agree with that under the condition that when you say "field" Golden above you are referring to a "field bred" Golden as compared to what most people refer to as a "field type" Golden.  :crossfing


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I have to add to your list just 2

Trifectas Repeat Performance ***,UD, MH, CCA, WCX, CGC, Can CD (Ditto-hope he is feeling better)
and kind soul Rooster, High Times Run'n The Roost UD MH WCX ***OS


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I am no expert of field trials or hunting tests. But I have had a hunting golden who had a field lines pedigree (Funky Farquar and Holway Barty) This dog lived to hunt and retrieve quail and pheasant. He had such a high drive in the field that he had so many scars from running full tilt through barbed wire fences and brambles. When he developed hypothyroid and couldn't hunt anymore, it almost killed him to see Dad go hunting without him. He was not small or tall. He fit the perfect golden standard.
At home, he was the mellowest, sweetest golden you can imagine. He loved children and other dogs. There wasn't an aggressive bone in his body.
Trailblazer's Major Max Von Walzer


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

AmbikaGR said:


> A "field" Golden refers more to a "type" than it actually does to the breeding. It normally refers to a smaller, finer boned, less coated Golden.
> While many field trainers prefer this type there are many Goldens bred to do field work that do not fit this description.
> Hope that helps explain.


 
THANK you, Hank. I find myself grrrrrring when I read "That is a field Golden. That is a show golden." 
THere is one breed. Golden Retriever. And we could really get into the debate as to one or the other meeting or not meeting the standard.
"TYPE" is the key word. I think as used above, a better word might be "style", as many of what some people call "field Goldens" lack breed type. Type, by definition in discussing dogs, refers to the qualities that define a particular breed and separate it from all other dog breeds. _Breed type_ is outlined in the written standard for each breed, and _breed type_ is the basis of judging dogs in the conformation ring.
As an example - a Golden Retriever that looks like a Great Pyrenees lacks breed type. A Golden Retriever that looks like a Saluki lacks breed type.
STYLE is a different story - there are differences in _style _between some bloodlines - ie one might readily recognize a dog coming from Birnam Woods as being different from one coming from Rush Hill. Both are very obviously recognizable as quality Golden Retrievers, possessing breed type, but are very different styles.


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## jonesyboy (Sep 20, 2008)

Thanks for all the responces. Whenever I've seen a comment about a golden looking like a field golden I've allways thought, that's sort of how Jonesy looks. He was a rescue so I have no idea about his parentage, except that he is supposed to be a pure bred golden. Here's a picture - anyone care to hazard a guess?? It's probably not the best picture to evaluate, but I don't have one that shows more of his body on this computer.











Of course it doesn't matter either way, but I thought if there are any particular traits common to field goldens it might help me to understand/train him. He certainly has puppy energy, but I really wouldn't classify him as high energy.

Thanks.

Sue


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> THANK you, Hank. I find myself grrrrrring when I read "That is a field Golden. That is a show golden."
> THere is one breed. Golden Retriever. And we could really get into the debate as to one or the other meeting or not meeting the standard.
> "TYPE" is the key word. I think as used above, a better word might be "style", as many of what some people call "field Goldens" lack breed type. Type, by definition in discussing dogs, refers to the qualities that define a particular breed and separate it from all other dog breeds. _Breed type_ is outlined in the written standard for each breed, and _breed type_ is the basis of judging dogs in the conformation ring.
> As an example - a Golden Retriever that looks like a Great Pyrenees lacks breed type. A Golden Retriever that looks like a Saluki lacks breed type.
> STYLE is a different story - there are differences in _style _between some bloodlines - ie one might readily recognize a dog coming from Birnam Woods as being different from one coming from Rush Hill. Both are very obviously recognizable as quality Golden Retrievers, possessing breed type, but are very different styles.


It seems like lots of top field trial trainers don't prioritize the look or type/ visual style of the dog or care to meet the visual standard, but rather focus on the athletic prowess/inherent birdiness/speed, and stamina of the dog as he/she must compete against Labs, chessies and tollers in national talent pools. Form and function ideally are related, but in practice. . To me a "field golden" possesses the prey drive, work ethic, memory for marks, quick wit for blinds, and mental/phyisical toughness to meet an athletic challenge pretty far above a day of hunting on Saturday. The gene pool is fairly small in the field lines and the in top five sires, four are related. IMO , a "field " golden is bred from the getgo to succeed in field trials, but the term used loosely, in common parlance, refers to the dogs from these lines who are hunt test dogs, duck hunters, or pets with this blood in their veins. These foundation dogs are great golden retrievers, but not bc they fit the breed standard visually. People always talk about the great breeding of Bro to Butter bc it produced so many field legends; these are legendary golden retreivers too, in their own world, even if they cant enter a show ring. You have to see the dog work to say he/she's a great dog in the field: http://www.emberain.com/wst_page4.html()[URL="http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=19261"]http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=19261[/URL]http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=2311http://www.topbrass-retrievers.com/paws.htm.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> Lots of top field trial trainers don't prioritize the look or breed type of the dog or care to meet the visual standard, but rather focus on the athletic prowess/inherent birdiness/speed, and stamina of the dog as he/she must compete against Labs, chessies and tollers in national talent pools. Form and function ideally are related, but in practice. . . To me a "field golden" possesses the prey drive, work ethic, memory for marks, quick wit for blinds, and mental/phyisical toughness to meet an athletic challenge pretty far above a day of hunting on Saturday.


However, Goldens were designed to be a gentleman's hunting companion. In that type of hunting situation, running hell-bent for election, as fast as possible, is NOT a realistic hunting scenario - a field trial is not a hunt. Designing a dog to win in field trials - small, wiry, fine boned, narrow - compromises the standard. As does designing a dog that is large, carrying excessive coat, wide, and heavily boned (as was a short lived fad in the show ring for some). A Golden is to be an active, friendly dog. NOT a "hyper", wired dog.


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## GoldenOwner12 (Jun 18, 2008)

Both my goldens Einstein & Shelley are the english variety they both came from show lines.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> However, Goldens were designed to be a gentleman's hunting companion. In that type of hunting situation, running hell-bent for election, as fast as possible, is NOT a realistic hunting scenario - a field trial is not a hunt. Designing a dog to win in field trials - small, wiry, fine boned, narrow - compromises the standard. As does designing a dog that is large, carrying excessive coat, wide, and heavily boned (as was a short lived fad in the show ring for some). A Golden is to be an active, friendly dog. NOT a "hyper", wired dog.


I agree. How do you judge "gentleman's hunter" in a show dog never asked to retrieve or in a field dog not asked for the pleasures of gentlemanly companionship and excellent conformation? Retriever means retrieving capacity is essentially important too. A moderate, friendly dog with a soft mouth, affinity for water, and drive/desire for birds.. . Many show dogs will be awarded championships without ever retrieving anything. Many field trial dogs will be awarded championships who do not come close to the standard. It is hard to find a golden exemplifying/embodying the middle ground who both sides admire.


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## nictastic (Aug 21, 2008)

Maggies mom said:


> Here is the female version of a field line.....


 wow, wow, wow!!! She is stunning.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

nictastic said:


> wow, wow, wow!!! She is stunning.


Thanks.......


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> I agree. How do you judge "gentleman's hunter" in a show dog never asked to retrieve or in a field dog not asked for the pleasures of gentlemanly companionship and excellent conformation? Retriever means retrieving capacity is essentially important too. A moderate, friendly dog with a soft mouth, affinity for water, and drive/desire for birds.. . Many show dogs will be awarded championships without ever retrieving anything. Many field trial dogs will be awarded championships who do not come close to the standard. It is hard to find a golden exemplifying/embodying the middle ground who both sides admire.


I daresay that there are far more "conformation" dogs with titles on either end than there are field dogs with CH's, or even points. Not many field dogs will ever be awarded a championship - let alone if they don't come close to the standard.
I believe that more show dogs would be able to achieve performance titles were it not for the economics of competing. In today's times, one has to choose a priority unless they have unlimited capital - showing a dog to a championship is not inexpensive, not to mention the time involved. The same is true for any of the performance venues. 
As for multi-purpose dogs, some that readily come to mind are many of Jean Von Barby's Elyisan dogs; a lovely young bitch, Ch Autumn's Phantom From Valleygold, SH, WCX ; some of the Snowshoe dogs; the Evergreen dogs; Ch. Seeshaw Dylan's Evening Blaze SH,WCX,OS; Am. CH. Amigold On A Wing N A Prayer CD MH WCX VCX DDHF OS***;. I'm certainly leaving out many. But I have am having a difficult time finding field trial dogs with championships... 
I am also aware that there is a faction of people who run field trials and other performance events who actually discount titles such as CD's and WC's/WCH's, JH's as being somehow "lesser" titles, but I contend that they still prove trainability and a sense of instinct and should never be diminshed in their importance.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> I agree. How do you judge "gentleman's hunter" in a show dog never asked to retrieve or in a field dog not asked for the pleasures of gentlemanly companionship and excellent conformation? Retriever means retrieving capacity is essentially important too. A moderate, friendly dog with a soft mouth, affinity for water, and drive/desire for birds.. . Many show dogs will be awarded championships without ever retrieving anything. Many field trial dogs will be awarded championships who do not come close to the standard. It is hard to find a golden exemplifying/embodying the middle ground who both sides admire.


I agree with both of you. Those small wiry hard headed "field " line goldens we looked at after Max died were not even close to the pedigree Max had.

Selka and Gunner were both bred for obedience and come from show lines with Senior Hunter titles also and even though they both love to retrieve and will retrieve birds, they aren't born hunters like max was. Gunner's being gun shy is an anxiety problem that happened in utero. (JMO)


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Here's one of my favorite field goldens, Rodin, Sand Dancer's Super Nova CDX, SH, WCX. CGC . He finished/passed MH at Nationals in good style this year. We wanted a Sand Dancer puppy for years before we got Finn and especially admire Ranger,UCDX HR SR Sand Dancer's XX MTB Ranger UD, SH, TD, WCX * . Sand Dancer is owned by Rhonda Mulholland in Norway, Maine


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## tannernoodle (Mar 19, 2008)

Like everyone else said, it's refering to a golden that's redder in color..I see some people say they're smaller in size yet every field golden I've run into in this part of Minnesota...they mostly have field goldens and they're big dogs...usually close to 100 lbs and tall. My last golden Tanner was a field golden...tall, long and red...I prefer the looks of a "field" golden vs a more typical standard golden but I love any golden


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Yup, tannernoodle (by the way, I call my Jasper jasperdoodle, lol), I love my boys even though they don't meet the standards that keep being posted here. I knew they were not well bred, since both of them were shelter dogs, but they meet the standards when it comes to loving me as much as I love them, that's for sure! Plus, I think they are absolutely drop-dead gorgeous! But I am pretty biased, I think.


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## tannernoodle (Mar 19, 2008)

fostermom said:


> Yup, tannernoodle (by the way, I call my Jasper jasperdoodle, lol), I love my boys even though they don't meet the standards that keep being posted here. I knew they were not well bred, since both of them were shelter dogs, but they meet the standards when it comes to loving me as much as I love them, that's for sure! Plus, I think they are absolutely drop-dead gorgeous! But I am pretty biased, I think.


They're beautiful! That first one in your picture looks like my tanner. I miss him. Yep, called him tannernoodle. : Now I call Tucker...Kentucky Fried Tucker...not sure why. Just rolled off my tongue one day ROFL!!! My daughter calls him Tucker Tanner because she really didn't understand Tanner being gone and Tucker being a different dog...she couldn't tell the difference even though they look so different color wise...but that's okay. So we call him Tucker Tanny sometime...


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## GoldenOwner12 (Jun 18, 2008)

can someone please tell Shelley she is comformation dog and should be slow and lazy lol. Shelley is always on the move she is very energetic and hyperactive. Einstein can be lazy but once you start to throw his toy he will keep chasing it till he falls over.


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