# Can't cope with Henry any longer



## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

Your posts were some of the first I read when I started using this forum... I ached for you then and I ache for you now =( I don't want to make any suggestions because I know there are far more experienced members here that will help you much more than I could, but I wanted you to know that you have support.


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## Serawyn (May 23, 2011)

Oh no! I know you've been trying SO hard to make it work. Do you think it's time to maybe find another home for him? I think with persistence, training, and patiences, he CAN be a good dog for someone. As it sounds, you are going through a tough time. Financially and emotionally, this may not be the right time for both of you to be together. I know it's difficult to admit, but I always think if the dog or human are not happy after trying so hard, maybe it's fair to let someone else give it a try. 

It's not an easy decision, but it doesn't sound like he is getting any better in this situation. If anything, he sounds like he is getting bored and even more aggressive. I'm so sorry. I hope you can find a solution that works for you soon.


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## ggdenny (Nov 2, 2008)

I know how much time, loving and caring you've put into Henry. How old is he now? There are behavior options that you can pursue without spending money. Try the library and internet for reading resources on dealing with aggressive behavior. Also, I know that the internet has at least a few videos that can help.

He could just be displaying anxiety over his new living situation and it manifests as aggression toward you. Don't give up on Henry. You know he loves you. Come here for help and advice. I know everyone here will do their best to help you get through this. We want you to succeed and for Henry to mature so that you can be the loving pair that we all know is possible.


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

I've not posted to your threads before, but I have read them and know of your situation with Henry. I have no advice to offer but want you to know how sorry I am that this is continuing to happen. Maybe it would be best for you both if he were placed with a person/family who is equipped to deal with a dog with behavior issues. It's not a reflection on you or your love for Henry. It just might be what's best for you both. Again, I'm sorry this is still happening.


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

I'm sorry this is happening. 

When I was a child we had a collie. He bit a neighbor lady and my parents decided to give him to my dad's cousin that lived on a farm. There were 3 other kids in the family, younger than me and my mom was afraid he might bite again. After a few years they had to put him down. My mom said they thought he had or did have a brain tumor. 

Has Henry been checked out by your vet? My point is, it possibly could be a physical issue rather than behavioral. Even a thyroid imbalance can cause behavior problems.


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## em6984 (Dec 1, 2010)

*I really don't want to give him up because I fear he'll end up being put to sleep. I've browsed the internet and I am so shocked to see the aggression in other dogs. I don't know if I'm selfish in feeling that I can't live without him, I love him so much. When I see his wagging tail on a morning and his wiggling bum shaking like beyonce, it just fills me with joy, even if it is brief, it always feels so good.*


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## em6984 (Dec 1, 2010)

*I was thinking it could possibly be a thyroid issue - how much approximately would a full test be? *


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

There are really no words to express how sorry I am that you're having such a hard time. I hope you have support of some good friends or family so that you don't feel alone coping with everything. I wish I had words of wisdom. Please know that I am pulling for you...


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

I would suspect that the blood work to run a full thyroid panel is cheaper than replacing your belongings that he's destroying. Call your Vet and ask, maybe they'll divide the payments over time to make them easier for you. If you haven't had him checked for medical reasons for this behavior, I definitely would have him checked now.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Don't know what a full thyroid panel would run there, but I just had it done for Maggie thru Hemopet ( in fact you could have it sent there. She has lab work sent from around the world). Anyway, the thyroid 5 panel is $75. You would have to get the blood drawn and spun down to serum and ship to her. The cost includes Dr. Dodds' interpretation. She emails you and your vet the results and her interpretation.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Please forgive me for not knowing, but I thought you'd had the vet do a complete blood panel work up on him? If you have not, please figure out a way to get this done ASAP. It can be helped with medication if this is the case. I have no idea how much it will cost you where you live but I have to think trying to save up and get it run would be worth the cost for your sanity.


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## Dreammom (Jan 14, 2009)

I am so sorry you are going through this...

Layla will be 3 in November, we have had her since she was a pup and have had problems from the beginning. She is a very anxious, reactive dog, has problems with fear aggression, etc. We have consulted trainers, behaviorists, veterinary behaviorists and our own Vets countless times...Layla is what she is, there is nothing wrong with her physically, but she does most likely have a brain wiring problem. She will never be a dog park dog, we rarely go on walks, they are too upsetting to her. However she has gotten much better with people coming to our home, fence fighting other dogs, coming when called and so on. 

We can not just go up to Layla and start petting and snuggling her like we can our other dogs..it sends her into a tizzy. Last night I tried, had been snuggling with Hurley and did not want Layla to feel left out, I crawled over to her and she went bonkers, got the zoomies so bad, became aggressive biting and scratching at all of us - I think she even scared herself. 

Layla has made great progress in the past year, but she is always going to be a tough nut to crack. She is on a SAM-E supplement rather than prozac (the Vet feared it would have the opposite effect on her)...She will never be a typical Golden I usually refer to her as my Golden that must be Border Collie/chihuaha and tasmanian devil mix. We love her and manage her as best we can...it can be a challenge at times, but she is worth it.


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

> She is on a SAM-E supplement rather than prozac (the Vet feared it would have the opposite effect on her)...


My niece's Lab is one of those dog's who cannot be on anxiety meds because they do have the reverse effect on him. He's not agressive, though he has accidentally drawn blood before, just extremely hyper and barks incessently. They cannot have fences in their neighborhood, so put in a radio fence thinking he'd do better having 'open spaces' but it only made him bark more and become even more hyper. He's now taken to walking backwards on their wood floors because the slick surface scares him. Poor guy is exhausted by the end of each day and starts all over again the next.

I hope you find some solution for Henry. Hopefully it's as simple as his thyroid and thyroid medication will help him.


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## em6984 (Dec 1, 2010)

*Thank you for all responses... Dreammom it sounds like we have similar issues with our goldens... my vet refers to Henry as a dog with special needs and I have been told by a behaviourist he has a "screw loose" and they weren't being nasty or anything, I think they were just trying to say his brain was wired the way it was supposed to.

Anyway... in answer to your questions yeah Henry has had two full blood tests done... is this the same as a thyroid test though. Both tests came back saying Henry was anemic and he is on medication for this, it has not worsened overtime, just stayed exactly the same. The vet recommended I get him castrated, but it has made no difference at all... and it has been over a month now.

I have only even done positive training with Henry, but fear I am way too soft on him and he is beginning to think he is the alpha of the household. I am quite a soft spoken, quiet, calm person, who doesn't get angry and I am very tolerable. 
*


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## Dreammom (Jan 14, 2009)

We kind of had to put Layla in her place...by doing NILIF and being strict about it. She is made to sit before she gets anything...the door opened, her food, a treat, some loves, etc. Sadly, my hubby has not been on the same page with that, and any good training I get into Layla, he usually undoes. He is a pushover and lets her do whatever she wants!


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm sorry you are having such a struggle. Please try to hang in there, there has been so much change and emotion in your life lately, making any decisions about Henry right now would not be good. In a few months things may be much better, or if they are not you can make decisions then with more confidence. There is so much upheaval in your life right now and Henry feels it too. He very well may calm down once things are the "new normal" for you both. 

Like all of the other board members, I have followed your threads about Henry and I think the behaviorist is right that there is something not quite wired correctly in his brain. With good mangement and stability he can get better, or not. 

But I hope you will take time and let yourself settle into your new life and see how things are in a few months. Walking away when Henry is starting to get wound up is a good thing right now. 

We are here to listen, please let us know how things go for you.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

A full thyroid panel consists of T4, free T4, T3, free T3 and the antibodies (TgAA). If you are interested in learning more about canine thyroid disease, Dr. Dodds has a book recently published called "Canine Thyroid Epidemic".


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I have also been following your threads. I am so sorry that you are having such a time of it with Henry. I know he gets exercise, but it sounds like he needs even more. I also wouldn't let him sit on you, next to you or on the furniture at all. I hope that more structure is all that he needs, but I do know that I had a 6 month old chocolate lab stay with me for 2 weeks and by the time she left, I was covered in bruises. She had no idea how to properly interact with me and she, too, would work herself into a frenzy and start barking, growling and biting me. I do think her issue is also energy related, she's one of those dogs who needs a good, hard three hours of exercise every single day.


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> A full thyroid panel consists of T4, free T4, T3, free T3 and the antibodies (TgAA). If you are interested in learning more about canine thyroid disease, Dr. Dodds has a book recently published called "Canine Thyroid Epidemic".


Isn't there also a test for thyroid stimulating hormone - TSH? I know there is for humans. I'll check the records for my dogs, since I know we had a full panel done. The cost here was around $275.

I wish that I had more to offer. The only dog I know of that had serious aggression problems and bit his owner badly turned out to have brain tumor. That's certainly not what you hope to find with Henry.

I so hope that things work out for you.


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## Stressedgoldenmom (Aug 2, 2011)

My neighbors have a dog that was like that! She would terrorize the neighborhood and the parents were at the end of their rope and they did 2 things:

doggie valium
e-collar

both worked wonders and now even my 6 year old can play with her and my new golden puppy, who I was really nervous about introducing him to, was just delightful! She was incredibly gentle with Wrigley when they first met and she doesn't wear the e-collar much anymore. It was like the drugs and collar made her realize what behaviors got her the love.

It's not anything I would recommend in just any situation, but again, it seems like you are in dire straits here. Maybe the move ratcheted up her anxiety.

Bless your heart, Henry's too.


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

i am sorry to hear this it sound Neurological to me..i hope you can find out what it is that is wrong with Henry. Dont give up yet. It must be awful though to be scared of your own dog..very sorry.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

If you are not already practicing "Nothing in Life is Free" methods with Henry please read up on them and start using them. Furniture access would be the first thing he needs to lose.


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## AmandaSmelser (Mar 22, 2010)

I was thinking "e-collar" just as I read Stessedgoldenmom's post. First of all, only if this problem cannot be solved through medication, and secondly, maybe the tool would help you since you are so light-handed and that obviously isn't working for you. I could never imagine being in a situation where my own dog would attack me as I sat on my own couch that I PAID FOR! My dog isn't even allowed on the couch.

I had an unruly golden that an e-collar worked wonders for. He was never aggressive though and I used it for some behavioral issues(jumping up on people, chasing the cat, etc) but mostly off leash training. I paid approximately $1000 for personal training on use of the collar, but think that you could train yourself with youtube videos if you are willing to spend the time researching it.

The bad thing though is that used inappropriately, the e-collar could make the situation even worse than it is now. I am truly sorry you have this dilemma and hope that things get better for you very soon.


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## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

It's unfortunate that you are afraid of your own dog. The last thing on earth you should do is use an e-collar with an aggressive dog, most likely you will aggravate the situation. The following link 


Are Shock Collars Painful or Just Annoying to Dogs?  A 2004 Study Reveals Some Answers | Animal Behavior and Medicine Blog | Dr. Sophia Yin, DVM, MS

provides an article from an DVM who is also an animal behaviorist about e-collars. Since I have not read your other posts I was wondering if you have consulted an animal behaviorist. You will need to make some hard decisions.


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## Stressedgoldenmom (Aug 2, 2011)

I was to make it clear that my neighbors used the e-collar after 3 years of her being hard to handle and it was temporary.


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## em6984 (Dec 1, 2010)

I don't think I could use an e collar, sorry - I just think there must be a better way as to how I am doing things, but I don't think I could inflict pain on Henry.

I think not allowing him on the furniture is a good idea, Henry has no boundaries at the moment as I am so afraid of him.


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## Dreammom (Jan 14, 2009)

Here is a link regarding nothing in life is free...

Nothing in Life is Free


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

Mention of the e-collar made me think... what about an elizabethan collar? The cone collar thingy? It might inhibit his ability to bite at you/get his mouth on you, which may make you feel more comfortable doing things such as pushing him away while you're on the couch. Might be a dumb idea, but just a thought.


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## AmandaSmelser (Mar 22, 2010)

em6984 said:


> I don't think I could use an e collar, sorry - I just think there must be a better way as to how I am doing things, but I don't think I could inflict pain on Henry.
> 
> I think not allowing him on the furniture is a good idea, Henry has no boundaries at the moment as I am so afraid of him.


 
That's interesting because he has absolutely no problem inflicting pain on you.

Just sayin'


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

That was a very unhelpful comment and encouraging the OP to strike at her dog could result in a really horrible situation if the dog decides to fight back. Also, if this is a neurological problem or an anxiety problem, inflicting pain has absolutely no benefit.

Edit:: Sorry, I didn't mean strike as in hit since you did not mean that the OP should hit her dog, I meant it in terms of striking back with pain.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Henry*

I will pray for Henry and you. Lots of good advice Here. I would have his thyroid tested for sure and looks into the book Nothing in Life is Free, like Mylissyk said.


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## ggdenny (Nov 2, 2008)

I think you should start (slowly) setting boundaries for Henry and making it clear that you're the boss. I say slowly because you're looking for a firm correction that doesn't elicit fear or anger in him and he feels like he has to bite. But hopefully firm correction will soon begin to register with him that you're in charge. I also think the idea of getting him a low dose of a sedative is valid and worth considering.

Another thing I though about is to make Henry wear a gentle leader at all times, which may make it easier to correct and control him.

Please stick with him and try to be positive.


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## AmandaSmelser (Mar 22, 2010)

rhondas said:


> Are Shock Collars Painful or Just Annoying to Dogs?* A 2004 Study Reveals Some Answers | Animal Behavior and Medicine Blog | Dr. Sophia Yin, DVM, MS
> 
> provides an article from an DVM who is also an animal behaviorist about e-collars. Since I have not read your other posts I was wondering if you have consulted an animal behaviorist. You will need to make some hard decisions.


That's a good article, but seems to not take into consideration low-level e-collar training. A dog should never show any of the affects listed such as high-pitched yelps, crouched, squealed during low-level e-collar training. The level is way too high if the dog flinches or does anymore than a subtle twitch like they've been bitten by a flea and have an itch.

E-collar training is a very delicate issue and too many people use the tool in the wrong, wrong way.

I agree that Henry's owner is not equipped to take on this training method...but I know some professional trainers in Houston who would be.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

AmandaSmelser said:


> That's interesting because he has absolutely no problem inflicting pain on you.
> 
> Just sayin'


***? Seriously?


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## AmandaSmelser (Mar 22, 2010)

Yes, I apologize for not getting my meaning across appropriately. I am not inferring that she should fight pain with pain, as I don't believe that e-collar training ought to be painful - see previous post. I think you took my meaning the wrong way.

I just think that this situation is way out of control and that no one should be in the situation where a dog is physically "beating up" on them. Fighting back cannot necessarily be physical, just like a man beating his wife cannot be fought back with punches. 

Henry doesn't "think" he's the alpha dog. He IS the alpha dog.


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

em6984 said:


> I don't think I could use an e collar, sorry - I just think there must be a better way as to how I am doing things, but I don't think I could inflict pain on Henry.
> 
> I think not allowing him on the furniture is a good idea, Henry has no boundaries at the moment as I am so afraid of him.


If a training e-collar is like an invisible fence collar, it isn't painful. We have an invisible fence and the collar as something like 5 settings. The setting we use for Hank is like a shock you get when rubbing your feet on the carpet and touch a person. A surprise, but not pain (I've felt it), but he doesn't like the "surprise" and has learned to respect the boundary.
Henry won't know the correction is coming from you, only that when he does something inappropriate, he's corrected.


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## AmandaSmelser (Mar 22, 2010)

Mssjnnfer said:


> ***? Seriously?


Well, let's picture this. I am sitting on my couch, relaxing, and my dog approaches me, claims the couch, and full-on attacks me when I move.

I personally wouldn't be pitying the dog at this point.

I'm not saying that you can solve the problem with physical punishment, but at some point in all of this you've got to stand up for yourself (ie. keeping the dog off the couch, as so many wise repliers have mentioned, is step 1).


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## AmandaSmelser (Mar 22, 2010)

Willow52 said:


> If a training e-collar is like an invisible fence collar, it isn't painful. We have an invisible fence and the collar as something like 5 settings. The setting we use for Hank is like a shock you get when rubbing your feet on the carpet and touch a person. A surprise, but not pain (I've felt it), but he doesn't like the "surprise" and has learned to respect the boundary.
> Henry won't know the correction is coming from you, only that when he does something inappropriate, he's corrected.


 
My e-collar has 129 levels. Level 1 is completely undetectable. I have put it around my neck and upped the level to about 20 when I felt a tingle. Literally - a tingle.

My previous golden's working level was about 30. I always felt on my hand the level I had taken him to. 30 felt more like a pulse to me. I also found the "working level" of all my friends. That is when they tell you they feel a tingle on their hand. Most people were in the 20s.

The carpet rub shock is way too high for low-level e-collar training. For an invisible fence, it's truly meant to hurt a little bit.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think the e-collar is a moot point, as I don't think they are allowed in England. I know they are banned in some country, not sure which. Anyway, I have and do use e-collars but this is NOT the situation where one would be beneficial. Carry on.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

em6984 said:


> I don't think I could use an e collar, sorry - I just think there must be a better way as to how I am doing things, but I don't think I could inflict pain on Henry.
> 
> I think not allowing him on the furniture is a good idea, Henry has no boundaries at the moment as *I am so afraid of him*.


This just breaks my heart. I'm so sorry this has been such a struggle. I've read your other threads, too, so I do know how much you've tried.

The fact that you are scared of him definitely empowers him. He knows you are scared of him. And it seems that if you do _anything _he doesn't care for, he lashes out. 

The fact that his personality seems so volatile makes also me wonder if there isn't something neurological going on. You say he wags his tail, does the fully body wag... what elicits that behaviour? Specifically, what changes it? Is it something you do? Or does it just seem to change for no reason?

My advice would be to call your vet and talk about whether there is any way to do some tests on a payment plan of some kind. It would be so tragic to treat it as simple aggression if he has a brain tumour (not that I am at all hoping this is what it is) or his thyroid is out of whack. Go in to talk to him/her without your dog so you can really concentrate and focus, without having to try to correct, etc.

Best of luck. I applaud you for hanging in like this. He may not know it yet, but Henry is lucky to have you.


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## mygoldenkids (Oct 4, 2010)

I agree w/ mylissyk & the nothing in life is free. I really feel as if Henry is Alpha in your house. I also believe he picking up on all of your emotional distress. He is also stressed because of his new home. I'm certainly not ruling out a physical issue, but your pup has had A LOT of things to go through so far in his short life. A blood panel could rule out some of the physical problems.

Maybe you can record some episodes of the Dog Whisperer w/ Cesar Milan (free) or buy a book of his that addresses aggressive behaviors (low $.) I know that he emphasizes being in control. 

Molly, my pup, isn't exactly aggressive, but she has been a feisty, strong-willed dog since I got her. When I went through some health issues this past winter, her bad behavior would flare up, as she would sense the anxiety and tension and feed off of that. I kept her on a 6' leash in the house (which I would of, course remove w/ the collar whenever I would leave her unattended.) She would just walk around w/ it. I could then be quick in making a correction. I did use a prong (not a choke) collar and still use one to this day. She is a strong little girl, and there was no gentle leader, leather collar, or any other collar that would do the trick. (BTW--she has NEVER, NOT ONCE yelped in pain.) I made sure to always walk through doorways first, with her following me. I made her do a sit/stay before giving food. I made sure to never allow her up at my level (on furniture.) I was always higher. I would only touch/pet her when she was calm and in control. I also instructed everyone who came to my home not to pet her or extend their arms out until she was in a "sit" position and in control. I never gave any treat for free. She had to do something to earn it.

I will also tell you that some goldens need A LOT more physical exercise than others. Molly is like that. Her disposition changes completely when she has adequate exercise. Mental exercise also works wonders. She loves to learn, and sometimes I think the mental workouts tire her out more than physical ones.

I would really give the leash in the house idea a try. I know some on this site are against prong collars and it's definitely an individual preference, but it really worked wonders for Molly. It's a very quick jerk, release action--not constant pressure. Whatever you do, yelling, shouting, or trying to push him away will only worsen the situation. That makes it a game. He is then succeeding in getting your attention.

I hope your situation gets better--I know you are trying.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

em6984 said:


> I think not allowing him on the furniture is a good idea, Henry has no boundaries at the moment as I am so afraid of him.


I know how hard you have tried with Henry. I remember how pitiful he was when you got him.
I know you have spent a lot of money on vets and training. I know your long-term relationship ended at least in part because of Henry.

I understand why you are afraid of him. In all honesty, I would be too and he would know that and take advantage of it.
We have our dogs in general to give us love and companionship which we give them too.

With all that said, it might be time for you to throw in the towel. I know you are getting a lot of encouragement and advice, but no one is there to help you IN PERSON.

_I think you should really consider your best interests too_. Could the trainer you worked with before recommend someone who would be better able to deal with Henry? I'm not trying to say you haven't tried really hard or don't have the ability, but you have been in a huge amount of turmoil over Henry for months and maybe it just isn't meant to be.


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## AmandaSmelser (Mar 22, 2010)

mygoldenkids said:


> Maybe you can record some episodes of the Dog Whisperer w/ Cesar Milan (free) or buy a book of his that addresses aggressive behaviors (low $.) I know that he emphasizes being in control.


OMG, you did not just mention Dog Whisperer on this forum! You are going to get torn up on this forum worse than me. 

All joking aside, I love this forum and everyone who comments on it. You are a wonderful group of folks and if anyone can help Henry and his mom it's you people.

Good luck Henry's mom. Hang in there cause it's obvious you love him too much to give up on him.


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

*E-Collar?*

Reading recent posts, I think I see a misunderstanding. To me, an e-collar is a plastic "elizabethan collar" - a cone - a way of keeping a dog from biting or scratching some part of him/herself or perhaps keeping the mouth away from another being.

It sounds to me like some people think of an e-collar as an electronic device that inflicts pain on the dog.

There is a vast difference between the two. Perhaps it would be helpful for people to clarify which device they have in mind.


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## Stressedgoldenmom (Aug 2, 2011)

GoldensGirl said:


> Reading recent posts, I think I see a misunderstanding. To me, an e-collar is a plastic "elizabethan collar" - a cone - a way of keeping a dog from biting or scratching some part of him/herself or perhaps keeping the mouth away from another being.
> 
> It sounds to me like some people think of an e-collar as an electronic device that inflicts pain on the dog.
> 
> There is a vast difference between the two. Perhaps it would be helpful for people to clarify which device they have in mind.


The e collar my neighbors used was an electronic collar.


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## sophiesadiehannah's mom (Feb 11, 2007)

i don't want to be a "debbie downer", but sometimes it is just not meant to be. i adopted a 6 month old female who i named faith marie, she came up from kentucky, what a beautiful girl, everything was so good, no problems at all until she turned 1, then she wanted to be the alpha dog, and began to pick on the other girls, she would push the others away for petting or just for attention. i tried so many things, however my home was not the place for her. she needed a large yard and the only dog. i felt like a failure, however it was not my fault,she had a personality which didn't mesh. the good news was i found her a fantastic home, she is the only dog and has a huge yard with a lake, yes she found her heaven on earth.


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## Cathy's Gunner (Dec 4, 2008)

I'm sad to see that you are still having major problems with Henry. Is there a college near you that treats dogs that could possibly be less expensive than a vet? We have a university that practices on dogs while the students are training to be vets. It sure sounds like there is something wrong with Henry and that he probably can't help his aggression. I will keep you and Henry in my thoughts and prayers....hugs too.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

coppers-mom said:


> ...... With all that said, it might be time for you to throw in the towel. I know you are getting a lot of encouragement and advice, but no one is there to help you IN PERSON.
> 
> _I think you should really consider your best interests too_. Could the trainer you worked with before recommend someone who would be better able to deal with Henry?


There is a great deal of wisdom in Coppers Mom's comments. If you are not the best person to help Henry, have you considered it would be the greatest act of love to find someone who could help and, perhaps, ultimately save his life?

You probably don't remember me, but at the beginning of this year I made what may go down as the most difficult decision of my entire life. I sent my beloved, 16 month old golden back to his breeder after spending quite a bit of time and effort with training, vet work ups and a certified behavioralist. My boy had fear agression issues and could not be trusted around children. (I have 3) and my greatest concern became that although I could try to manage him, if I ever slipped up, he could bite someone else's child (again) or even mine and have to be euthanized. I decided that Duncan's greatest hope at a long life would be the chance that the different dynamic with his breeder (she has no children and a good 25 more years dog experience than me) would be a more workable situation. 

Now my dog was not the same situation that you have been thru with Henry, but I will say Duncan's breeder told me right off that many times, dogs do behave very differently for different people. 

I practiced 'Nothing In Life Is Free" (HIGHLY recommended by my behavioralist) and from the beginning I tried to do everything possible to make Duncan feel safe and that I was the one in charge. Apparently it just wasn't enough. She and I are in regular contact, he is doing well with her (no children in her home). I miss him terribly and will always love him. But I know in my heart I absolutely did the best thing for him.

Have the thyroid study done, but also, please think this perspective over a bit. No one in the world could possibly accuse you of not doing everything you can to help your dog. But sometimes our best just isn't enough in every situation. Not one person here would judge you harshly or view you as a 'quitter' if you began working on finding a qualified person to take over with Henry. It might end up being the kindest thing you could possibly do for him.

No one should have to live with someone, dog or human, who they fear. Please know that we support you.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

It might be best to consult with your behaviorist or better yet a vet behaviourist. They will know Henry best. 

For what its worth, we have dogs like Henry at the shelter - often young puppies with health (including neurological) and behaviour challenges. I do not believe you are simply dealing with am unruly teenager or a dog that would be helped by an e-collar or NILF 
methods.

I speak from the perspective of an owner of a cat with health (neurological and bladder) and behavioural (aggression and hyperstimulation) problems. The only way to help him is through medication, which with counter conditioning and management of his environment and interactions, has made him a near normal cat. 

If you decide that rehoming is best for him I would ask the behaviourist to help you place him.

Please don't beat yourself up over this. Know that you have everyone's support here.


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## ElvisnHenry'sMom55 (Mar 10, 2011)

It's those naughty little Henrys' again. Oh dear! I don't have much to add, but just know I empathize with you and completely understand what you're going through, though my situation is not quite so severe. You've got a lot of sound advice from many on here and I'm sure you'll do what's best for you and the other little Henry. Sending good thoughts your way and hugs.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

AmandaSmelser said:


> That's interesting because he has absolutely no problem inflicting pain on you.
> 
> Just sayin'


He's a dog, he doesn't reason the way a human does. As a human, we can make a conscious on whether to hurt someone or something. Dogs don't have that reasoning ability.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I remember your earlier posts about Henry. I agree with many here that maybe it is just not the right fit. I would never want to live with my dog being fearful of his/her behavior. Oh, and personally, I think there are just some dogs out there that have screws loose. You have worked with him and gotten help, what more can you do? Best of luck in what ever you decide...


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Sally's Mom said:


> I remember your earlier posts about Henry. I agree with many here that maybe it is just not the right fit. I would never want to live with my dog being fearful of his/her behavior. Oh, and personally, I think there are just some dogs out there that have screws loose. You have worked with him and gotten help, what more can you do? Best of luck in what ever you decide...


I agree. I had one that had loose screws, she wasn't a golden, and after 10 years of "managing" her, I had to finally face the fact that her illness was making the rest of the household unstable and I had to make the hard decision to have her put to sleep. It wasn't her fault and she had lots of sweet, wonderful qualities, but they couldn't overcome the aggressive qualities and I had to make that horrible decision.

I do want to say that she never attacked a person, though she did nip a repair person who came to work on the washer. But when she attacked Jasmine, she did it to inflict damage (and succeeded) each time. 

My heart breaks for you, Henry's mom. I hope this all works out for you and him because I know you adore him.


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## AmandaSmelser (Mar 22, 2010)

fostermom said:


> He's a dog, he doesn't reason the way a human does. As a human, we can make a conscious on whether to hurt someone or something. Dogs don't have that reasoning ability.


I know, and mine was an inconsiderate comment. It sounds as though Henry is reacting to an unstable environment in an aggressive way because his "pack leader" is actually second in command and Henry is trying to control the situation in the best way his instincts tell him.

I guess I was trying to reason from the "you deserve to be treated better" point of view to encourage Henry's mom to stand up for herself and take the lead. I just don't have as much tact as others.

Henry's mom seems like such a nice, sensitive lady. As humans, we love those traits, but they are very confusing to dogs who see it as weakness...not love.

note - when I say stand up for herself, I am not saying to physically react. A calm response with positive, assertive energy goes a LONG way.


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## GinnyinPA (Oct 31, 2010)

I'm so sorry you're going through this, after all you've been through already. 

When you talked to the vet and the behaviorist, besides saying that Henry had a screw loose or was wired differently, what did they tell you about how you should manage the situation? Did they give you any hope that things could get better? Or that anything you could do would make a difference? 

Henry's problem isn't that he's an energetic puppy who misbehaves - he was deprived nutritionally in the womb. It is a physical, not behavioral problem. That can make a huge difference. His illnesses when he was still a baby can make a difference. All the love you have may not be able to fix him. I would talk to the vet and ask for a realistic assessment of Henry's future and whether you are the right person to deal with whatever Henry needs now.


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## bioteach (Nov 13, 2010)

Hello,
I have followed you and Henry and I feel that I have known both of you all of my life. You are the most dedicated doggie mom ever, and you have given Henry more than many people have sacrificed for their human children.

I agree with GinnyinPA. Henry may have lost out during his pre-natal development and may truly have special needs. He cannot talk to you; but like a select few special needs children he may "act out" as a form of expression. Thyroid issues may play a role as well. There is a behavioral pattern known as "puppy rage" that has been linked to thyroid problems that may not have been detected.

Henry is beautiful; but he may not be healthy. I can't advise you to let him go but if you and your vet consider that possibility please open your heart to another little golden who is healthy and will thrive living with you.

I truly admire you. You don't quit and don't give up in the face of difficult problems! You deserve a dog with a sweet disposition to enrich your life.


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## em6984 (Dec 1, 2010)

*Thank you for all your comments - Amanda, I think I know what you were trying to say - my dad has the same sort of attitude.

Henry is only ever aggressive when he doesn't get his own way - this is the only time. When out meeting people, they always assume he is the most perfect dog in the world as he just licks them to death and rolls over, very submissive, he never bothers any other animals. 

The only three people he is or was really close to is me, my ex partner and our very committed dog walker. All three he has bitten at some point, but more so me. Richard was very firm with him and they didn't do much together. The dog walker has a similar sort of personality to mine and has been bitten on just as many occasions as me.

Last night, I started thinking about what if I truly considered giving him to a better home. I've always had dogs or one dog and this is the only bad experience I have had. I don't really want to live alone without a dog but fear if I can no longer control them it might be for the best. 

Henry acts out of fear, that I have no doubt about - fear at certain intervals and dominance at other times. He is such a troubled dog. My vet has already indicated he thinks Henry should be put to sleep if I can no longer cope with him as he can't be trusted around children and I'd just be passing on the problem.
*


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## aerolor (May 27, 2011)

AmandaSmelser said:


> That's interesting because he has absolutely no problem inflicting pain on you.
> 
> Just sayin'


Wjhat a silly, unhelpful comment to make :doh:


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## aerolor (May 27, 2011)

em6984 said:


> *I am literally at the end of my tether with Henry. We moved house on Monday to an upper floor flat and it has been hell ever since... and his aggression has got so bad over the last few days, I feel quite terrified.*
> 
> *Now, please for all newcomers, I am devoted to Henry - I have given up so much for him, I love him entirely with my whole heart. My relationship of almost nine years has collapsed and I am going through a very hard time. I live alone now, with Henry, I have two jobs just so I can pay the rent, money is a huge problem. I have taken this week off to help Henry adjust and to some extent it is working, but I can not cope with this aggression anymore.*
> 
> ...


I am so sorry that you are having so many problems at the moment. It is more than likely that Henry is picking up on your unhappiness. It also sounds as if Henry is a typical "doggy lout" who has had too many privileges without having to work for anything. The other factor, which I think is a very important one is that you are now living in a top floor flat and from what you say Henry is having to spend a lot of his time on his own while you have to work. Boredom, frustration and too much pent up energy which he cannot release probably means that he is constantly trying to find an outlet and cannot relax. 

As others have said in this thread, I think, partly because your circumstances have changed and partly because of the type of dog Henry is, it may be that you and Henry are no longer compatible and both of you would be happier if Henry could be found a sympathetic and experienced home where he can be trained and allowed to fulfil his potential as an active and intelligent dog (which is what he sounds like to me). 

All this sounds quite negative and I am in no way intending to be unsympathetic to the situation you find yourself in, (quie the opposite -it must be very difficult and stressfull for you) but unless something changes dramatially neither of you are going to be happy and things will get worse. I think you need space to get yourself happy again and maybe this is not going to happen with Henry (who himself needs help). You should not think you have failed with Henry, you have done your best for him in what has now turned out to be very difficult circumstances, but it is very difficult to get him turned around when you are now actually frightened of him and in such a low emotional state yourself. 
I think, if I were in your situation, much as you love Henry, I would seriously look towards letting him go and re-homing him to someone who will know how to handle him and give him what he needs. 
E-collars are not the way to go IMO. 
You are now living in a top floor flat with an active, frustrated dog whose needs you cannot meet. 
I don't think anyone would criticise you for making the brave decison to part with Henry. You need to think of yourself and try to become happy again. 
I apologise if you think I have spoken too plainly, but from what I have read, hard as it may be, I really do think it would be the best decision to make. Best wishes.


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## em6984 (Dec 1, 2010)

Thank you aerolor - maybe we are no longer compatible. Thing is I walk Henry about five times a day and he's not much of a runner or player, he prefers to pick up sticks, grass etc and chew. When I am at work I have a dog Walker, who insists on taking him out for at least an hours walk. I also give him frozen kongs so he has plenty going on in his life during the day. I really doubt it is boredom.

I can see why that may look like the case though.

I have a vet app this afternoon as I spoke to ANOTHET behaviourist this morning and she said he possibly could be having epilepsy problems??? Everything is just a guess though.

Im gonna try, possibly for the last time, to sort this out!!!


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## aerolor (May 27, 2011)

em6984 said:


> Thank you aerolor - maybe we are no longer compatible. Thing is I walk Henry about five times a day and he's not much of a runner or player, he prefers to pick up sticks, grass etc and chew. When I am at work I have a dog Walker, who insists on taking him out for at least an hours walk. I also give him frozen kongs so he has plenty going on in his life during the day. I really doubt it is boredom.
> 
> I can see why that may look like the case though.
> 
> ...


Whatever way you decide to go I wish you well Em. It must be a very diffiult position to be in. Take care.


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

Good luck with the appt today. Please refresh my memory...how old is Henry now? 
I do hope you are able to find a helpful solution be it medical or behavioral, with Henry. Hopefully this new Vet can offer you a beneficial 2nd opinion. 

Are there Golden Rescues in England? Could they work with you and Henry? Maybe they could find the right home for Henry and find help you find the right dog for you too.


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

nolefan said:


> ...No one should have to live with someone, dog or human, who they fear. Please know that we support you.




This is so important! Your first responsibility is to yourself - for your own well being and safety. Living with a dog you fear is just not acceptable. It isn't good for you and it isn't good for the dog.

However you decided to handle the situation - whether it is more professional help or re-homing or whatever - it is clear that you love Henry and that you have tried your best to help him. And I hope you will make a decision that is in _your_ best interests, too.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

em6984 said:


> I have a vet app this afternoon as I spoke to ANOTHET behaviourist this morning and she said he possibly could be having epilepsy problems??? Everything is just a guess though.
> 
> Im gonna try, possibly for the last time, to sort this out!!!


I just have so much respect for you. 

I hope you find some answers. I, too, know you will make the right decision for both of you.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

AmandaSmelser said:


> I know, and mine was an inconsiderate comment.
> ...
> I guess I was trying to reason from the "you deserve to be treated better" point of view to encourage Henry's mom to stand up for herself and take the lead. I just don't have as much tact as others.


Thank you. It takes a lot to admit something like that. I think it deserves to be bumped up for anyone who only saw your original comment - and didn't see this.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

So glad you're getting a second opinion. The more professional help in this case the better. 

Also wanted to encourage you and say that no matter the outcome these situations force us to learn and grow so much. It took me 5 years to really understand what was happening with my cat - I ended up in animal welfare because of my troubled kitty. I think he was meant to come to me. 

Hang in there!


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## em6984 (Dec 1, 2010)

*Okay so the vet appointment was interesting...

This vet listened to Henry's heart, that sounded good. He give him a full examination, that was okay. He then went through Henry's history with me as I had the previous vet forward this on earlier this morning. 

His honest opinion: from looking at previous blood tests there is no reason whatsoever to do a thyroid test. Also, he indicated that his coat was very healthy and wavy and this wouldn't be the case if there was a thyroid issue and all his blood tests came back the same, indicating that there was no problem just the very slight anemia. 

He thinks Henry is very anxious and acting out of fear aggression, and fear towards me too. He also believed that there is no behaviourist that will EVER be able to fix this, I will just have to manage it as best I can, seek advice etc, but that it will never, ever be gone. Over time it may escalate, who knows.

He did give me a collar that could possibly calm Henry down, apparently it gives off vibes from the mother and a soothing scent. He says he doubts this will work, and if it doesn't he can put him on tablets for anxiety.

I'm stressing out as my parents are telling me to get rid of him and they are becoming very anti-Henry and they don't even know that he has attacked me on three occasions. My dad said he would come round and walk Henry when I am at work and my dog walker doesn't work weekends... (my dog walker is awesome, totally brilliant, none of this is ever an issue for him... I believe he loves Henry just as much as me and if he didn't have training on weekends then he would be able to walk him). Will Henry attack my dad? Who knows? I hope not.
*


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

It sounds like anti-anxiety medication may help then, and worth a try. If your dog walker deals with him well maybe it would be helpful for you to have some sessions with him to learn how he handles Henry. Is there a possibility the dog walker might know people who could give Henry a good home if you decide to go that way?

I would almost prefer Henry be left alone longer on the weekends rather than risk your dad having a problem with him.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

I'm so sorry for you and Henry. It looks like you have two choices: keep working with him or give him up. I doubt anyone here will judge you if you opt for the latter; you've done so much for this dog throughout his young life and dog ownership should be a two-way street meaning YOU should be getting something out of it as well. I own, feed, brush, walk, etc Ranger and I get so much out of having him: companionship, love, protection, happiness and so on. Right now, I don't think you're getting those same intangible benefits. You're scared of him and that breaks my heart. Owning a dog is a lot of work and responsibility, but there should be a little fun in there, too. It can't be ALL work. So, if you do opt to find another home for him, no one should judge. However, due to his bite history the chances of him finding a home are not great. 

If you choose to keep working with him, I would invest in a good muzzle. Right now you're scared of him (with good reason) and he knows it. That's why he's trying to control you. No 'alpha' shows fear, so your fear is actually putting him in the position of power. Get a well fitted, secure muzzle on him and start teaching him boundaries. His weapon against you is his teeth; so take away his weapon and you won't feel powerless anymore. Muzzle him, get a leash on him and start doing NILIF and set up random boundaries for him. Keep him off the couch, don't let him into the kitchen, don't let him into the bathroom. He needs to learn he has expectations placed on him by you. With the muzzle on, next time he jumps up on the couch you can take his leash and remove him without fearing that he's going to bite you and can start exerting some control.

Don't leave the muzzle on all the time but definitely use it when you're in the house with him and need to establish some control. Take it off for meal times, walks, crate, and night and use it when you're hanging out at the house or going to do some training. Henry's learned that if he bites or gets aggressive when he doesn't want to do something, then he doesn't have to do it because people back down. With the muzzle on, he can't bite so there's no reason for the people to back down. Give it a shot.

I wouldn't normally suggest using a muzzle but this is a last resort situation. I think it's a better option than an e(lectronic) collar.


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## em6984 (Dec 1, 2010)

*I was speaking to the dog walker this morning as he lives close by, and he is going to speak to his wife who is a behaviourist - she has helped before.

I really don't want to give him up.

He has bit the dog walker on a few occasions though and lashes out at him too, in fact it is him and myself who gets the worst of it - never was it my partner, mind he didnt spend that much time with Henry.
*


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## em6984 (Dec 1, 2010)

Thank you for the muzzle idea - I will get one first thing tomorrow  oh I feel thats a great suggestion


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## aerolor (May 27, 2011)

It is good that your vet doen't think there is anything physical causing Henry's problems, but if his behaviour is fear aggression I think you will need sensitive and expert help with Henry. I don't know the story about Henry, so could I ask if you have had him from a young puppy and if so did he show these signs from being little. It might be an idea to let the breeder know about it as well.


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## em6984 (Dec 1, 2010)

*Yeah I got him at six weeks - I know way too young. He is now almost a year old. When I got him he didn't even weigh 2lb and was in dog hospital for almost a week on a drip... it has been a battle trying to put weight on him. His heart was weak and he was riddled with worms, his heart is now fine though.

He has suffered so much. He found it difficult to put on weight, he was sick after every meal several times, always had diarhoea and was in and out of the vets. It wasn't until he was about seven/eight months old that he became well.

He also suffered from severe nose bleeds, thankfully that doesn't happen anymore. His hair would not grow and he was always sleeping.

The breeder give me a little money back but doesn't want anymore contact.
*


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## Deb_Bayne (Mar 18, 2011)

Sounds more behavioral (which can be managed) from the sounds of his early life. You probably gave him a lot of sympathy while he was sick and gave into him from that emotion. Now he is confused that he doesn't get that now but a totally stronger emotion like fear. In reality, there are only 2 emotions, LOVE & FEAR. Sympathy is fear based, yet soft and not as strong, you fear for his health, you fear that he will die, you fear that you couldn't handle losing him. He needs stability from you, he needs to know the exact same emotion day in and day out... this is a tough one and takes a lot of inner growth from you. You say your life is in a turmoil right now, your emotions are all over the place, well, look at Henry his emotions are all over the place too. I know you say that he has always had these issues but can you take a look back at your life in your relationship, was it a calm, relaxing and fun time for you before issues started in? You say you've only had Henry almost a year, was your relationship breaking down already at that point? Henry cannot take the blame for your relationship ending only you can take that on yourself. Make sure you are not projecting onto him your frustrations even though they are internal. Animals all live on energy and they are so intuitive and only react to what they are sensing. Can you find a way to relax yourself, and while in that state keep Henry contained, such as in a crate. When you can get your LOVE feeling moving freely you may notice a calmness come over Henry. Worth a shot anyway. 

Although, many here do not believe in Cesar Milan's methods at least he does know that dogs pick up on our energies and his belief that we get the dog we need, not the dog we want. Also, they are telling us that we need to do some inner work in order to improve what is going on in our outer world. Is it possible for you to have someone to talk to about your inner stuff? Henry, is just trying to tell you he loves you and wants the BEST FOR YOU!!!


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## aerolor (May 27, 2011)

Thats awful Em. Shame on the person who sold you such a poorly pup and left you to get on with it. Your devotion to Henry does you credit; a lot of people would have given up before now. I do hope that things can turn around for you and Henry - he is only a youngster, who has been through a lot in his short life. If he didn't have the robust "puppy" period that is normal maybe these problems are not surprising. Perhaps a "good" training class, even one-to-one help is the way forward. The best bit of advice I can give is not to let him get into situations where he feels he has no control and has no alternative but to bite. Good luck - you must do what is best for both of you long term, but I hope things will improve for you both soon.


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## kira (Jan 13, 2009)

I really feel for you and Henry - but especially you. I truly hope that you and your vet and the behaviorist are able to find a workable solution. I definitely agree with those who have suggested NILIF. Although I don't know anything about muzzles, I read your post about getting one tomorrow with a smile on my face because it was the first of your posts in this thread in which I could really feel a sense of hope. If using a muzzle with him gives you the confidence to be a stable and calming leader to him, I think that's great. I don't agree with everything Cesar Milan does/says but I certainly believe that our dogs feed off of whatever we have going on emotionally/mentally. 

Have you tried Rescue Remedy? It's an herbal/flower essence remedy. They make formulations both for humans and pets. Personally I prefer the spray but they make a dropper bottle and pastilles also. It's not a miracle cure for stress and anxiety by any means, but for me it does help. I relied on it quite a bit when I went through a major break-up a few years ago and then again when I was seriously injured about a year ago. 

Original Bach Rescue Remedy: Rescue Sleep, Rescue Cream, Rescue Pastilles - scroll to the bottom for the pet version. I am in the US but I was in Europe recently and saw Rescue Remedy in stores pretty frequently.


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## GabeBabe (Oct 1, 2010)

*How is Henry?*

Hi, Well I’ve just seen this post and things may be 100% different since Dec 2010.
However if you still own Henry I would like to drop my two cents. For what it’s worth I agree with aerolor. 

Dogs are SO smart. They know what we are going to do before we do it. They read our behavior and react – the response they get shapes them for future actions.

The smallest tendency towards reinforcing their behavior leads to that behavior being repeated. That is why positive behavior reinforcement is so important. (over the yank and crank method of training). 

Working two jobs doesn’t leave you much time to be with your dog, thus the time you do have is so important for developing your relationship with him. Money being an issue – go for activities that help without spending too much.

Someone mentioned a gentle leader – we use the Comfort Trainer collar. Or Tellington Touch has a snoot collar. This helps when walking to prevent pulling or to make gentle corrections to behavior. They also have a calming collar for mimicking the gentle bite a mommy uses to train her pup.

Linda Tellington’s T-Touch has free videos on line to do t-touch massage or look for a practioner in your area that must do some of their work for free to get certified, they may be willing to help if you call.

An Anxiety wrap or thundershirt helps instead of drugs to calm a dog. Use an elastic wrap, a t-shirt snug, or buy the ‘official’ thundershirt.

Homeopathic, as mentioned for anxiety are Rescue Remedy, DAP in spray or room diffuser, or lavender drops. Some drops of lavender on a bandana will add to calming, or on your jeans.

Clicker training. If you cannot afford a clicker – use the word “YES” in a happy and quick voice. Read up on how to clicker train on line for free.
Leerburg Dog Training | 16,000 pages of dog training information, 300 free streaming videos, DVDs and Free Dog Training ebooks - Michael Ellis free training videos

K9 nose work is a great sport and you can use boxes and treats at home to help your dog “hunt” and make them mentally tired. The nacsw.net is the national association. Learn from classes then continue work at home.

The game ‘find it’ is great. Hide kibble pieces around the house and let Henry ‘hunt’ for them. Using their minds tires them out.

Educational toys like Nina Ottosson’s dog pyramid or block make working for treats a tiring activity – similar to the kong you use (do you freeze yours?) Given after a walk or obedience session to be the reward. Even just working on sit, down, stand, stay, recall helps to tire out a pup and it’s free.

Diet is important – if all his blood work is good, what about a healthy diet and dog food – find information on forum. 

Rewards for the behavior you want to encourage is important. Tiny bitty pieces of a high value treat encourage attention and help you to model behavior.

When you are on your sofa – use the ‘Go to your matt’ activity. Rewarding for staying in place on their blankee or towel by tossing teeny tiny bits of treat as he stays in place, and encouraging with your voice 'Gooooodddd Boooyyy'

Check the Relaxation Protocol by Karen Overall that teaches how to encourage your dog to train himself to relax through a set of training sessions you can do at home. Also works with/on his matt.

Be aware of yourself and your posture. Your pointing and arm movements. Your glance. A dog sees them all. Work yourself to encourage behavior and discourage negative actions. Bit by bit, tiny steps.

Begin training with him calm and settled too. Sit on the floor and have him in a sit in front of you facing away from you - with your hands on his shoulders - breathe, tell him 'settle' or 'relax' - if he tries to get away keep him until you can gently lift away your hands and he stays. 

Your stress of moving, work and circumstances are felt keenly by Henry.

Some reading. 
Tail Lights Dogs - Resources

Hope this helps. We love our pups and the special personality of a Golden. It’s never too late to train and encourage positive behavior. 

Remember to breathe, clean breaths. Dr. Weil has some good breathing exercises for the human!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

GabeBabe said:


> Hi, Well I’ve just seen this post and things may be 100% different since Dec 2010.


Huh??? This thread started yesterday.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

DNL2448 said:


> Huh??? This thread started yesterday.


I think the poster got confused with the Join Date and Last Post date. The OP joined Dec 2010.


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## GabeBabe (Oct 1, 2010)

*My bad!*

Guess I saw the 'membership date' and thought it was the thread date.
My bad.
:doh:


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Oh, okay. Sorry. I didn't even think to look there. I though I was in a time warp of some kind.


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

I know of your suffering and am very sorry for it. I believe you will do what is best for all concerned. You have gone above and beyond with Henry.


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## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

HOw are you and Harry doing? Im so sorry that you are going throught this...it is heartbreaking..I so hope that things are better for you.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Are you acting fearful or even feeling fear when you are around Henry?

I had a behaviorist fix the problems I had with a fear aggressive dog I had. He never lashed out at us, but he did with children and people that were afraid of him. In fear aggression, they are so afraid, that they will attack before the person they are afraid of does.

What the behaviorist told me, was that people that are afraid, emit a smell of fear, and that is what the dog is reacting to - in addition to possible body language.

I had to gain confidence that I could control my dog. Once he felt my confidence and he knew I was in control, he was no longer lashing out, although I kept him situations that he might fail at.

After the 6 sessions we had with the behaviorist, he became a very well behaved dog.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Em*

Em

So very sorry for what you and Henry are going through. You are in my prayers.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

em6984 said:


> Thank you for the muzzle idea - I will get one first thing tomorrow  oh I feel thats a great suggestion


I agree, this is a GREAT suggestion. Have you been able to get one? The behavioralist I worked with also highly recommended using a muzzle. It may take some desensitization work to get him accustomed to it.

If you have been unable to come up with a working plan for the muzzle, please let me know and I will forward you the info I had from my dr. on desensitizing. I bet it would really change your demeanor with Henry.


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## em6984 (Dec 1, 2010)

Oh yes please nolefan  that would be excellent.

Okay so on Friday after taking Henry to the vet, I came home in the car and just cried. Saturday morning, I awoke to him and his happy tail and I just knew instantly I wouldn't be giving up on him.

I love him, and he is a handful, but I feel stronger (strange, but every time I express a problem on here, I really feel a million times stronger as there is so much good advice).

I went out got him a muzzle, and have been using it in the sitting room... he has tried pushing me off the sofa a few times, but i just say very firmly no and put him in his place. Today, no muzzle and he has been okay. Mind I was at work this morning.

I'm not sure if he is ill or not because he is being so much better today and yesterday... I know that sounds silly but whenever he is in pain, he tends to sleep more and be better behaved. Or maybe he is just settling down to his new routine and home with mummy 

I just can't give up on him. The vet agrees he could end up in a home which wasn't as understanding as what I am, well some people may say a doormat. I just feel I took on a life time commitment, he makes me smile every day without fail, yes life is bloody hard with him around sometimes, but we'll get there... we will, I just know it.

Thank you again. Who knows tomorrow may not be good, but this forum always fills me with such hope.


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## ggdenny (Nov 2, 2008)

Please know that we're all behind you. Henry has an awesome mom!


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## MycrazyGoldengang (Jan 15, 2008)

Hi

We sent you a private message, where are you in the UK, we would love to be able to help you.


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## em6984 (Dec 1, 2010)

I live near Durham, North East. Sorry, I did not read your private message... I just looked and have loads :/ I will read them now I know where it is


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

I'm glad the Forum is giving you strength to work through these concerns and see a brighter tomorrow. The pic of Henry sleeping...who would expect such sweetness to have a rough side? He's gorgeous. I haven't seen images of him before. I bet that your strength gives you a confidence that Henry can detect and maybe, just maybe, that will be a huge step in finding a happy and safe relationship for you and Henry.


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## MycrazyGoldengang (Jan 15, 2008)

We have followed your story and only wish we lived closer to help out.

Your right this forum does give you strength, we adopted Bella and she was a handful, but in time she settled in her new home with her new routine.

I used this forum to rant and get all the things that got me down out my system and the advice i got helped me through and now i am reaping the benefit.


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## em6984 (Dec 1, 2010)

*henry attacked me again this morning*

*what a horrible morning - more scars to show off on my arm*

*i give henry a rawhide bone, he has been fine with them lately but this one was in a different shape than he is usually used to. straight away he took it and sat next to me on the sofa, which i thought was weird.*

*the phone rang, i got up and answered it. when returning to the sofa henry growled at me. *

*i then moved to the other sofa. he jumped down and came straight over to me slowly, i wasn't sure why he was moving away from his bone. he then got right near me, started growling, i went to move and he bit my hand and kept growling.*

*after this horrible episode, i am still having nasty flashbacks, he looks sad and i got really upset. i did shout at him and was crying because of all the blood. he got submissive and came up to me, tail between legs, but i ignored him completely, feeling furious and just disappointed that i'm not getting anywhere despite trying so hard.*

*the rest of the morning he looks really scraed of me and cowers when i approach him and starts snarling.*

*aww i am just so fed up... *


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## mamabear (May 17, 2011)

Oh, no!!  I'm so sorry - I was thinking of you just last night...I'm sad for you that this is your update. *hug*


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

While I am still sympathetic, and impressed that you are showing such loyalty to a difficult dog, I think this needs to stop now with Henry, and he should be managed 100 percent consistently. No high value objects outside of a crate, and no couch even if you have to put chairs up where you are not sitting. This is not safe for either of you. If Hnery growls, and you move away, he learns his threats work. However, it is also not safe to disregard his warning. Therefore, the situation cannot be set up ever again. When Henry practices these behaviors, they become more entrenched each time. Henry needs to wear a tether and a basket muzzle when he is loose, until you are able to have the funds for a professional. If he drags his lead, then you can step on it quietly rather than reach toward him with your hands or accidently loom over him. There are lots of ways to make a basket muzzle a nonissue for the dog with positive training, and you'll need to do a little research. This dog needs to be managed very, very carefully, and no matter how much we love them, sometimes the situation is just not salvagable. If you are dedicated to trying, then Henry must wear his muzzle, and work on his obedience commands in a nice, matter of fact, nonemotional climate with plenty of praise, reward, and firmness.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

I am so sorry to read that this happened...I hope your hand/arm is okay and not too painful!

I am a little confused as to why you'd give Henry such a high value item when still dealing with aggression. High value items can cause snapping/growling even in 'normal' dogs so it doesn't really make sense to me. Especially not having him confined when he has it...i guess that's in the past now. In future, I would definitely NOT give Henry anything like that. A dog doesn't need rawhide, marrow bones, etc to live a happy life. They are non-essential treats and a dog that is growling and biting his owner doesn't deserve a treat IMO. Not to mention that it's a trigger for Henry's rage.

Look around the room and pick up everything that is on the floor and is "henry's". Toys, chews, bones, etc. Leave nothing on the ground. Next time he wants something, he can play with it in his crate. You need to set him and yourself up for success so you don't get fed up anymore...let alone bit. If you want to give him a toy, put him in his crate and give it to him in there. When he comes out of the crate, pick it up and put it away. Having toys/bones around on the ground is just another thing he can get possessive about. Keep him off the couch, too. Muzzle and leash him and when he jumps up on the couch calmly tell him the cue to get back on the ground and then make him do it. He needs to realize he is not the boss and is NOT in charge.


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## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

Ljilly28 said:


> I think this needs to stop now with Henry, and he should be managed 100 percent consistently. No high value objects outside of a crate, and no couch even if you have to put chairs up where you are not sitting. This is not safe for either of you.


I was thinking the same. Boundaries are paramount, 'this is for you, this is where you have it if you want it'! Henry knows what strings to pull, you have to cut them so they are no longer there for him to pull. I am sorry you had this happen but let today be a new start, ..this isnt to happen again as you wont put Henry in a position t let it happen again. I wont let Chester off lead when hes out with me as I know I cant get him back...so why would I let him off lead? Just to get myself upset and mad and get him in trouble and at risk? No, so he stays with me on lead. its the same. Off couch..gets a low value treat. ALL HIGH value treats..are in CRATE with locked gate until he learns thats the rule. It will work


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Our daughter had a dog who would get extremely agressive when she got frustrated. She was able to wiggle out of her harness, no matter how tightly it was on, and then attack. Her attacks always involved our daughter's other female. 

We debated over what to do for a long time. Vet bills were running into the hundreds of $$$ every other month or so from the attacks. The decision was made to euthanize the dog. She had been a rescue of unknown background.

Daughter considered rehoming her but that was with risk because this dog would bite people too when she got frustrated. And the fact that she could get out of collar and harness meant that in public, she may not by under total control.

It was a very hard decision to make because most of the time she was a sweet dog. Just when she didn't get what she wanted. I had to stop taking Penny to the barn because even though she'd never attacked her, I couldn't take the chance. Penny is already a little unsure of other dogs. In the end, daughter just couldn't take the responsibility to pass the problem on to someone else when there are so many sweethearts needing homes. Also, we didn't want her to live a life of being passed along every so often because people couldn't cope. Or being brutalized for being 'mean'. Or possibly ending up living chained up in someone's back yard being tortured by heat, cold and bugs. Daughter felt the humane thing to do was to put her to sleep. Thanks to a thoughtful forum member's suggestion, she was taken to the vet's and daughter stayed with her to the end. She didn't want her to be frightened. It was sad. I'm in tears now that we couldn't help her.

I'm not suggesting you SHOULD euthanize Henry. I'm just saying I add my full support along with the others. Some dogs just are rogues and too difficult for the average person to deal with. I agree that you are not obligated to live a life in fear...of animal or human. I'm so sorry for you and Henry.


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## em6984 (Dec 1, 2010)

*i do feel stupid for giving him a bone, he was doing so well with them and clearly it was just too much. i honestly think because it was a different shape it set the whole thing off.*

*henry hates me, i can tell he does - he is scared of me at times and is trying to dominate me, i know he is. i don't feel like i have a dog like any other, i think henry has huge problems and i am trying to resolve them but just making things worse it seems since the move as there is no one room that henry can have, my flat is too small. his room is now the sitting room. he can't go in a crate as everytime in the past he has been in one he has been violently sick, even behind the crate, even when the door is not closed, he freaks out and panics.*

*he has so many good qualities. outside he is an angel, he walks to heal off lead, will never run up to anyone and stays by my side, constantly looking up at me, he looks happy outside... i love taking him out, he is the same in the car, so pleasant and full of joy. *

*there are things i have overcome with henry. he used to pick up mud and flowers and eat them, i can now tell him to leave and drop and he will, but only when he is outside. *

*i can't even sit on my sofa anymore and read... without fear he will come along and start barking and growling at me to get off. *


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

I have something that hasn't been suggested yet... 
Would you be open to tethering Henry? Not to you, but to the wall. We use tethers at training and they are SO nice and SUPER effective for reactive dogs. It requires some handy work because you actually need to install what looks like a light switch plate with a ring in the center into your wall and then you can invest in tethers of various sizes with leash clips at the end. I don't know how good Henry is with his crate, but that this point I see you even trying to put him in his crate as a potential for confrontation. The tether would accomplish the same effect as containing him/keeping him in a safe space while also allowing you to work on training that you couldn't with him confined and out of reach in his crate. I'll try to find a picture of what we use at training and attach it. Victoria Stillwell also used them in an episode with two clingy english sheepdogs if anyone can find a clip on youtube.

Here's a general idea of what it would look like : 









Also, I just want to say... the worst of Iorek's guarding happened over a rawhide... sometimes the things they value most can be really surprising and that makes it even harder to manage =(


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

So sorry you've had another incident with Henry. I wish I had some advice for you that you haven't already heard or tried.

You say he's a different dog outside. I wonder what a behaviorist would make of this? Might it have implications for fixing what's going on in your home? If he's not scared or possessive outside, why not? Just wondering...is this behavior toward you always when you're on the sofa or chairs? Maybe there's something about those pcs of furniture?


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

It is common but not helpful to imbue dogs with human emotions and motivations. Hard as it is, try to deal with his actions. I do not think he "hates" you. I do agree with Penny's Mom that once in a great while the wiring is just somehow wrong, or the behavior is so deeply entrenched it is not always safely remedied even in an above average situation. However, muzzling, tethering, crating, and applying dog science/ positive training consistently might help since you say he improves sometimes. Susan Garrett Ruff Love and Crate Games and the Jean Donaldson pamphlet MINE! about resource guarding are just tiny suggestions in a sea of interesting reading about aggressive dogs. http://www.amazon.com/Mine-Practical-Guide-Resource-Guarding/dp/0970562942


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Im so sorry. I agree with the others - thus is not a dog that should get a high value item at this time without management.

It is so easy to attribute terms like "dominance" to Henry but I don't this is going to help. Just plain throw out dominance theory all together and you'll be able to maybe better understand henry's motivations and thus how to manage him. 

I suggest contacting a behaviorist who can take him into their home, at least for a while, so they can really spend 100% of the time with him. I do still think there is something medically going on, I would think in his neurology. Is there a vet behaviourist around?


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Em,
How is de=sensitizing to the basket muzzle going? I hope you will do something to protect yourself. I'm afraid he's going to do serious damage to you.

Just checking on you....


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm sorry if this comes off blunt and insensitive, but I think Henry has some very real problems either physiolocally or mentally and you have reached the point that he is dangerous and can't be trusted. I know you love him, but sometimes the best thing you can do is let them go.

The last resort I see available to you would be to put him in a board and train program with a professional who can evaluate him and really determine if his behavior can be corrected. But truthfully euthanasia for a a dog with his history, and with the extreme escalation of aggression he is showing may well be the most humane option.

It is not safe for you to have him in your home any longer, he stalked and attacked you this time, it was not just a reaction to you being near him. For your safety you need to move him out of your home one way or another.


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## Deb_Bayne (Mar 18, 2011)

paula bedard said:


> You say he's a different dog outside. I wonder what a behaviorist would make of this? Might it have implications for fixing what's going on in your home? If he's not scared or possessive outside, why not? Just wondering...is this behavior toward you always when you're on the sofa or chairs? Maybe there's something about those pcs of furniture?


This was exactly my thought too and I was about to post this after I read the rest of the comments... so I just echo paula's words.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

There is a Victoria Stillwell certified trainer listed on her website, maybe you could contact her:

Victoria Stilwell Positively |  Find a VSPDT Trainer


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

mylissyk said:


> I'm sorry if this comes off blunt and insensitive, but I think Henry has some very real problems either physiolocally or mentally and you have reached the point that he is dangerous and can't be trusted. I know you love him, but sometimes the best thing you can do is let them go....
> 
> It is not safe for you to have him in your home any longer, he stalked and attacked you this time, it was not just a reaction to you being near him. For your safety you need to move him out of your home one way or another.


Well said. If Henry does more harm to a person, he is likely to be (and should be, IMO) euthanized. I haven't wanted to be blunt about it, but there is tremendous legal liability here, for dog and owner. If a dog attacks his owner this way, I suspect the courts will have no sympathy when/if he attacks someone else.

The kindest thing to do is to either find someone to take him who really can handle him or send him gently to the Bridge.


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

So sorry to read this thread after all you have been through with Henry. I have heard of 2 other dogs where the dogs were happy dogs and then attacked the next minute but usually with no warning and then reverted to 'normal' behaviour afterwards. I think the suggestions of using a muzzle and the tethering are excellent but should be used at all times- you cannot go on being attacked. The GR rescue's in the UK will not rehome a dog with temperament problems. I hope the suggestion of the vet and behaviourist will help but at the end of the day you have to think about yourself and if you do have to make a decision about euthanasia remember that no-one could have done more for Henry than you have done. Annef


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## mamabear (May 17, 2011)

annef said:


> no-one could have done more for Henry than you have done.


This, exactly. *big hug*


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## Noey (Feb 26, 2009)

so sorry about your pups issues.

Sorry if I missed this - has you pup had nose and eyes and hearing checked. Maybe you need to seek out another vet? My sister had a Rottie that was wonderful...started to turn aggressive and it ended up being a neurological problem. 

I would try contacting really ligit trainers and seek advice, I tend to think part adjustment issues to everything and part underlying illness...be it neurological or something else. 

I feel bad, but I would not blame yourself. Your love is true. Sometimes part of that love is understanding that Henry might not be living the best life he can live...and if something is causing his aggression - rehoming with someone who knows how to handle aggression (if you want to rehome) is the option. Perhaps contacting a local vet college or something as well. I would say his behavior for all you have tried is not the norm... meaning something underlying that your vet can pinpoint. 

Could be emotional along with illness. With that said you mentioned you walk him off lead outside and inside he seems to have issues? I would not walk off lead-if he is aggressive toward you the owner...the one who feeds and cares or him...he will not think twice if he decided to be aggressive towards others. You also mentioned you work 2 jobs? how long is Henry alone during the day? could depression and loneliness be an issue? He is happy walking out with you because he is doing and moving and active...he is with his pack.

Inside with your couch issues - you mentioned you won't sit on it anymore out of fear. If he feels that fear...he will act differently. So outside he does not feel that so inside he might? 

Outside of illness - I think it's a combo of things for him. A good trainer should be able to help you out. It might be as simple as he is lonely when our away...and is sowing you that in aggression?

I hope he gets better.


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## Brady Ian (Aug 11, 2011)

*Have you tried medication for him? Also, has this been an ongoing issue and/or has it gotten worse as you have become more stressed due to your personal difficulties? If so, and if you can afford it, some type of counseling might be good for you, so that he doesn't sense/react negatively to your anxiety.*


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

i wonder why he is ok outside and in the car but not in your home?? Dominance inside the house....im not sure if you have done this already but has a dog behaviorist been to the home to watch him/study him? i feel awful you are going thru this with Henry..


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## em6984 (Dec 1, 2010)

I thought I could conquer all but I couldn't 

As a last resort I had another behaviouist see Henry in our home and she wouldn't stay the full two hours and didn't accept payment as she believed this was the second worse case she'd seen.

This happened on monday, after a week of being attacked... And quite severely so. Once I was in the kitchen bench and he was lunging at me and I had nowhere to go. 

Henry was put to rest last night. I am full of self loathing, I despise myself ... I wish I could go with him so not to carry this pain any longer


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## Sabine (Nov 10, 2009)

I am so sorry for having to make the impossible decision. Tears are streaming down my face, for you, the loss of your relationship and the loss of Henry. Hugs from me to you.....


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## luverofpeanuts (Jun 9, 2011)

em6984 said:


> I thought I could conquer all but I couldn't
> 
> As a last resort I had another behaviouist see Henry in our home and she wouldn't stay the full two hours and didn't accept payment as she believed this was the second worse case she'd seen.
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry for the pain you are going through and I wish there was some way lessen this burden you have bore. You have truly spent everything you've had, but in the end you've still had to bear a choice, which is right, I believe, but yet still hurts. It hurts me to just hear the pain your in. Please rely on your true dog friends to help you through this grieving process. You have clearly suffered emotionally; please take care of yourself.

<human hugs to you>


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

Please lean on the vast amount of love and support you have here... it sounds like you are absolutely struggling more than you deserve and I hope you can find some peace. You did the right thing. Be kind to yourself for the next few months--you have gone through so much emotional trauma recently and time to heal is in order.


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## Sosoprano (Apr 27, 2011)

I'm so very sorry for your loss--made incredibly more painful by the circumstances. I've been following your efforts with Henry and rooting for you from the sidelines, and I know you've done everything possible to help him. I hope he is now at peace and that you can begin to heal. My warmest wishes for you.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

em6984 said:


> I thought I could conquer all but I couldn't
> 
> As a last resort I had another behaviouist see Henry in our home and she wouldn't stay the full two hours and didn't accept payment as she believed this was the second worse case she'd seen.
> 
> ...


Oh hon, I am so terribly sorry you had to make this decision. Please, please do not torture yourself. I honestly, and with my whole heart believe that poor Henry was the victim of terrible breeding, and probably had genetic problems that caused his behavior, and maybe even brain malformation. 

You tried everything anyone could possibly try for Henry, you gave him more care and love than anyone else would have. Watching this story unfold from the time he was a puppy till now, believe me you went above and beyond by far what anyone else would have. If Henry could have been helped your efforts would have done it. 

I know your heart is broken, mine is broken for you, but you have nothing to blame yourself for. His problems were not your fault, I don't believe for a moment that you in any way caused them, and the outcome was something you had no way to prevent. 

Please be kind to yourself, I believe you have done the kindest thing for Henry.

I wish I could come sit with you and give you a hug. I know it doesn't help, but my tears are flowing for you.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't be so hard on yourself. You did every possible thing for Henry and gave him every chance possible. Sometimes there is no good solution..... to me it sounded like there were some serious neurological issues with him. Nothing you could have done.... nothing ANYONE could have done to make Henry a happy, healthy pup. What you did do is free him from his demons. Bless you for that. Henry didn't deserve to live like that and you certainly should never live in fear of being attacked from a pet. Try to be kind to yourself and know that you did the very best in a very hellish situation.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

I am so sorry. 

For what it's worth I think you did right by Henry - he will no longer have to face a world of fear. You gave him all that could be asked of you, your whole heart. THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT. Entirely at fault is the person who bred his parents - I pray for Henry's mom and dad and siblings, wherever they may be.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

I'm so sorry to hear this and so sorry for your pain; not just for the incredibly difficult decision to put him to sleep, but for all the pain you carried when you were doing the best for him in his life. Try to take comfort in the fact that you did EVERYTHING you could for him and gave him the best life possible. Even putting him to sleep was ultimately the best thing you could have done for him. I'm sure he's at peace now like he was never during life due to possible poor breeding and being unsound mentally. Wishing you comfort during this incredibly hard time.


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## baumgartml16 (Jun 19, 2011)

So sorry to hear this. You did the right thing, I have been following from the sidelines but since I had no expertise, I didn't feel it was my place to say anything. But I am so very sorry! You did all you could! Try to think of how stress free he is now.


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## aerolor (May 27, 2011)

I am so sorry to hear you have had to put Henry to sleep Em, but you know it is said that the kindest and bravest thing we have to do for our animals is to ease a poor creature's suffering when it finally means putting an animal to sleep. From what you say Henry was suffering mentally and you should not feel guilty or reproach yourself for being brave and responsible in deciding to put him to sleep. You gave him the best life you could and tried to help him overcome his difficult start in life. The early weeks of his life probably contributed to how he behaved as he grew - he couildn't help it. I don't think you could have done anymore for him than you had already done over the difficult months.


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## Deb_Bayne (Mar 18, 2011)

Sad for you, sad for what you had to go through with Henry and sad that you had to make the decision you did, that is so so so very hard no matter what the reasons behind it is. 

Henry is now at the rainbow bridge he is whole again and running and being happy, totally happy.


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## mamabear (May 17, 2011)

Gosh, I am so sorry that you're hurting. I agree with the others - this is the ultimate act of love and respect toward your Henry. Peace, peace, peace... *big hug*


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Henry had a rough start from day one. If it wasn't for you, he would not have known what being loved was all about.

You went beyond what most pet owners could do or would do. You gave him every chance and you showed him your love by doing that and then making the hardest decision you could make.

Please remember the good times with Henry. Don't be hard on yourself. Things would have just gotten worse.

I had a fear aggressive dog, but he would never have hurt me or my family. When a dog goes after the ones he loves, then he isn't safe for anybody.

(((( HUGS ))))


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Thoughts are with you in this difficult time. You were so strong to give Henry the peace that he so longed for but never knew. You truly put his needs above your own, do not think for a minute you didn't do enough.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Oh dear one , I KNOW what a hard decision this has been. We were there and not even that bad. Give yourself time to grieve for what you thought he would be, give yourself time to accept what he was and give yourself time to know you did the humane thing. You gave him the best home possible, the best hope. He wouldn't have made it anywhere else.

I still cry for Zoey and sometimes feel we didn't give it enough time or didn't give her the right attention. But she proved over and over again that her issues weren't about either one of those things. Neither were Henry's. Sometimes they are just so broke, they can't be fixed with love.

I'm so sorry for you pain. Please take care of yourself and give yourself time to heal.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Oh Em,

You gave Henry a chance at life he would never have had. Nothing you did caused his problems and there was nothing you could have done to solve them. His whole history pointed to a inborn neurological problem, his inability to thrive when you got him and his aggression. And you did him the final kindness of being let go by the one who loved him the most. Dogs with these kind of problems are not happy dogs, they are in mental anguish and you gave him peace.

You were kind and loving for Henry, now be kind and loving to yourself. Forgive yourself for everything that happened as it wasn't your fault. Take some time, sleep as much as you can and take it easy. You have been through a tramatic experience and you need time to heal.

You are in my thoughts.


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## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

Penny's Mom said:


> . Give yourself time to grieve for what you thought he would be, give yourself time to accept what he was and give yourself time to know you did the humane thing. You gave him the best home possible, the best hope. He wouldn't have made it anywhere else.
> 
> I still cry for Zoey and sometimes feel we didn't give it enough time or didn't give her the right attention. But she proved over and over again that her issues weren't about either one of those things. Neither were Henry's. Sometimes they are just so broke, they can't be fixed with love.
> 
> I'm so sorry for you pain. Please take care of yourself and give yourself time to heal.


Oh Em Em Em, I am so so sorry, please please please take all that Pennys Mom says, she truly knows where you are at far more than many of us, in fact than most of us and she is so right, please do take that time to grieve for that dog poor Henry could never be but that you deserved to have and did everything and more for him to become but as Pennys Mom says...sometimes some dogs are 'just too broke'..Henry was one of them and now hes mended and feeling well,..close your eyes and you will smell him, hear him..he will be near and happy now. You loved him and he loved you...he was just too ill and given too bad a start in life.
Thank goodness he had you. You looked after Henry unconditionally for as long as you could and beyond the realms of 'safe', now please look after you. Big Hugs Em x


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Is there anyone in the UK close enough to go see Em?


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Em*

Em

You did everything you could for Henry and gave him all of you-you did the kindest thing for Henry.


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## GoldenMum (Mar 15, 2010)

Sometimes the most difficult thing to do is the greatest gift of all, I am so sorry for your pain.....But, Henry is now pain free...run softly sweet boy! My heart goes out to you...Bless you...


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## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

mylissyk said:


> Is there anyone in the UK close enough to go see Em?


I was thinking the same, I dont know where she is and I sadly cant as I have had surgery and am fairly poorley and immobile but I would if I could, I hope someone somewhere can :crossfing


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

Take care of yourself, now. You did more than you could. God Bless.


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## ElvisnHenry'sMom55 (Mar 10, 2011)

Awe...so sorry to hear that. I know that is definitely one of the absolute hardest decisions you'll ever make. Like everyone else said, you did the best you could, but Henry was just too troubled. He's at peace now and you will be too, eventually. Take all the time you need to grieve. Take lots of bubble baths, pamper yourself and try to think about him now being the healthy, happy puppy he was meant to be, running freely at the bridge. You gave it a valiant effort and I'm sure he knew you tried your best, but sometimes things are just beyond our reach. Know, he'll be there at the bridge waiting to greet you again someday, happily wagging his tail.


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## desilu (Nov 2, 2006)

I am so sorry for your loss. No one here doubts that you did everything possible for Henry. Setting him free was the kindest act - so hard to do when your heart hurts so much. Wishing you peace . . .


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

As a veterinarian for 25 years, I believe that some dogs, like some people are born with incorrect wiring. You did what you could for Henry and in the end made the correct, responsible decision. No one should ever live in fear of their dog...especially a golden retriever. Time will help, but you did the right thing.


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## Bogey's Mom (Dec 23, 2008)

cubbysan said:


> Henry had a rough start from day one. If it wasn't for you, he would not have known what being loved was all about.
> 
> You went beyond what most pet owners could do or would do. You gave him every chance and you showed him your love by doing that and then making the hardest decision you could make.
> 
> ...


I've been sitting here for 15 minutes trying to figure out what to type. I will just echo this. I hope this doesn't scar your heart forever - you proved (to others, but most importantly to yourself - the only one that matters) that you are capable of the most amazing type of love. I hope at another time in your life you will share that with another lucky soul. You really did save Henry.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Bogey's Mom said:


> I've been sitting here for 15 minutes trying to figure out what to type. I will just echo this. I hope this doesn't scar your heart forever - you proved (to others, but most importantly to yourself - the only one that matters) that you are capable of the most amazing type of love. I hope at another time in your life you will share that with another lucky soul. You really did save Henry.


This is so true, and so well said.


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## Tammy (Jul 7, 2011)

I'm so sorry. I've been keeping up with your posts & know that you did all you could. Hugs & prayers to you in this time.


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky (Feb 22, 2011)

Please! I worry so much about you, especially after the comment about wishing you could go with him. Without repeating, I will simply say I agree 100% with all the posts in support of YOU!

I feel helpless to help you, especially so far away. Please seek out some support, okay? Or stay on the forum and just post, post, post! Keep talking. Keep seeking support! You need it right now. 

May all the peace that you need come to you ~ you deserve it!

Your friend,



em6984 said:


> I thought I could conquer all but I couldn't
> 
> As a last resort I had another behaviouist see Henry in our home and she wouldn't stay the full two hours and didn't accept payment as she believed this was the second worse case she'd seen.
> 
> ...


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Oh dear i just read the last few threads. I have been following this from day one. You have done all you could do for Henry. Dont ever question that. I am so sorry to hear of this. Please stay strong knowing you did the right thing and that you loved him and did all you could do.


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## Zoey's Mommy (May 16, 2011)

I've also had a similiar situation only she was a husky/malamute mix. I thought if I loved her enough and worked with enough I could fix her. But I also found out that some dogs cannot be fixed no matter how much we love them. Please do not blame yourself, it will get easier with time and you will always wonder if you did the right thing, in those times please remember your fear and being biten. In other times remember some of the good memories you have. I often think that if someone else would have taken my Gypsy they would have probably beaten her and possible to death when she bit, used her as a fighting dog, or just shot her out back but she at least knew love and was spoiled for a year of her life and left this world in a humane way. Just think that at least Henry knew what love was but he just couldn't be fixed. He did love you but something just was not right in his mind that he couldn't control. If anything hate the people that breed him wrong. Give yourself a mission to shut down that breeder along with all the puppy mills out there so no one else will have to feel your pain. We promised our Gypsy as she was leaving that we would shut her breeder down. 

Sorry this is so long and please come here to people that understand your pain and we'll be here for you. XOXO


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## puddinhd58 (Jan 15, 2009)

Em,
My heart goes out to you. I had a mutt years ago and 95% of the time he was fine, but every great once in a while he would just go nuts and fly across and room and attack anyone that was standing there. 
I had to put him to rest as everything we tried failed. 

Please believe that you did everything possible for Henry. You did the most humane thing anyone could ever do.... He felt no pain whatsoever and is now free from his fears. 

Like the vet said, some dogs are just wired wrong from birth and there is nothing, nothing, nothing that can be done to fix that wiring...

God Bless you and PLEASE reach out to anyone that can help you.... the people on this forum are a godsend and will help you through this most awful time... {{{{{{{ hugs }}}}}}}}


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

Bogey's Mom said:


> I've been sitting here for 15 minutes trying to figure out what to type. I will just echo this. I hope this doesn't scar your heart forever - you proved (to others, but most importantly to yourself - the only one that matters) that you are capable of the most amazing type of love. I hope at another time in your life you will share that with another lucky soul. You really did save Henry.


Beautifully said.

Henry is where he needs to be, finally able to heal from whatever made him crazy. And that's what he was ... not able to be responsible for himself or to you. He knew that you loved him and I believe he is grateful that you let him go before he did harm to you or to someone else.

Peace be with you.
Lucy


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## Cathy's Gunner (Dec 4, 2008)

Em, I'm so sorry to hear about Henry. You were a wonderful owner and did everything humanly possible to help him. You did what you had to do to relieve him of the demons that were in him. I will continue to keep you in my thoughts and pray that you will find peace with yourself as you made the right decision. Please keep coming here so we can all help you through this sad time in your life. Hugs, Cathy


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## GinnyinPA (Oct 31, 2010)

I'm so sorry that things have ended the way they have, but I really believe you did everything you could to help Henry. Reading your posts over the past few months, the love you feel and the efforts you made were evident. Henry had serious problems from the moment you got him. You didn't cause them. You did what you could to deal with them and get him the help he needed. It isn't your fault that it didn't work as you hoped. His problems were too big. He is at peace and it is time for you to feel some peace as well.


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

Dear Em,
I read your story, crying from the first page. I know the feeling when you don't want to stay behind, I felt that way for weeks. Some things are just meant to be, you can't see the reason why now but will be able to see it one day. You loved Henry and stayed with him to the end. Your Henry loved you in his bright moments, but his illness overpowered him. For very short time on a journey called life you traveled together, and one day will be together again and this time Henry will show you all his love. You are one wonderful person and deserve all the best. Henry found his peace and I pray for you to find your peace soon.


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## MissLibby (Aug 6, 2011)

Em, I am sorry for your loss.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

mylissyk said:


> Oh hon, I am so terribly sorry you had to make this decision. Please, please do not torture yourself. I honestly, and with my whole heart believe that poor Henry was the victim of terrible breeding, and probably had genetic problems that caused his behavior, and maybe even brain malformation.
> 
> You tried everything anyone could possibly try for Henry, you gave him more care and love than anyone else would have. Watching this story unfold from the time he was a puppy till now, believe me you went above and beyond by far what anyone else would have. If Henry could have been helped your efforts would have done it.
> 
> ...


 
Everything she said is true. You went far and above what so many people would have done for Henry. Never doubt it. He knew you loved him and did everything you could for him. He is now at peace at the bridge running and playing free of the pain from what happened before you ever took him into your life. I agree it sounds like it was a brain issue that couldnt be fixed caused by the breeding or health issue. 

We are here for you and know you are a great pet parent. My heart goes out to you for your pain that you are feeling but know we are here for you to discuss your pain. Please dont loath yourself, you did everything for him and endured alot of pain over this. You need to let that pain go. Remember the sweet Henry and not the angry Henry. And remember it was not his fault or yours. 

(((HUGS))) I am crying with you for your loss.


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## Maxwell (Aug 12, 2011)

This whole story has me crying. I agree with everyone on here that you went above and beyond for Henry and tried so hard to fight for him and to help him. If I lived near you I would come over and give you a great big hug for being a pet owner who truly loves her animals. You did the right thing for both of you, neither of you deserved to live in fear. Big hugs from this newbie.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Sometimes the kindest thing we can do is make the difficult decision to help set a troubled dog free of his demons.

(((HUG)))


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

I am so sorry to read about Henry but relieved that you are now safe. You made the hardest decision anyone could make and you will always remember him and miss him. You must remember that cared for him and loved like no-one else ever would and he was so lucky to have you as his owner. If you ever need any help in the future with a golden, please feel free to contact me and I will help in any way I can. Take care. Annef


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## Martasa (Jul 13, 2011)

I'm so very, very sorry Em.
I've been following your story too and also feel Henry was a very lucky boy to have had you. The patience and love you had for him is so very obvious so please don't be hard on yoursself.
Sending the biggest of hugs 
Terasa :--heart:


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## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

I am so sorry for your loss Em. You loved Henry and he loved you. Because of the love you have for him you were able to do what was best for him. He is now free of the mind that had him turn on the one he loved. You did the right thing. Henry is happy now and running free....
I have always heard that the hardest thing to do is the right thing to do. You did right by Henry...you showed him love from day one all the way till then end.
My heart breaks for you though. Remember the good things and times.
Hugs to you Em.


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## goldensmum (Oct 23, 2007)

I haven't read all of the thread, but just wanted to say that our very first retriever that we had when i was a kid bit my brother 2 or 3 times, and finally left him needed over 100 stitches. My mum said that he was to be put to sleep and when my dad took him the vet said he had had a brain storm (this is going back 30+years) - and that he would most likely do it again. He said the kindest thing for the dog would be to let him go.

Sadly, some dogs, no matter what we do cannot be helped and you have shown Henry how much you loved him by letting him go painlessly and peacefully to the bridge.

I hope that this sad incident will not put you off owning another dog - whether it is a golden or whatever.

Henry, you can now run free at the bridge


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

I am so very, very sorry. I am one of the many, many people on the forum who have followed your path the last year...Don't loathe yourself for making the most difficult and in the end the kindest decision you could have made for Henry. I hope that one day another dog will be lucky enough to meet you...


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## twinny41 (Feb 13, 2008)

So sorry to hear of this sad outcome for you. I, as others have said, feel that no one could have done more for Henry than you. I truly believe his behaviour was not curable but that he knew love and he loved you. He is now at peace with himself. Truly very sad for all though.


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

Just wanting to send cyber hugs and say I'm sorry for what you've been through. You did everything possible trying to help Henry, that's all you can ask of yourself.


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## T-Joy (Aug 22, 2011)

*A message for em*

Hi Em,

Well. I am new here but I red all your posts from the very beginning…
I was reading and crying…
I felt sorry for not being here to help you when you needed. It’s crazy but I felt like that while reading your posts. I had the need to tell you that…

He was so cute Little Hen. What a wonderful creature. If I where you I would do the same thing, I would choose the one that nobody wants, the one who needs special care. I admire you Lady!!! 
You saved him twice, at the beginning and... at the end. 

*Don’t feel guilty, you are the Queen!!!*

I just received a message for you, so I feel free to share it with you and all these wonderful people here.

*Stop crying, you did a GREAT JOB!!!*

Love & Light to everybody and Peace to Little Hen!


*THE MESSAGE IS:*

*My dear mommy Em,:--heart:*

*Once I was born, *
*Once I lived, the best life I could have,*
*Thanks to your tremendous Love I could survive, breathe*
*Leave all these suspicious people, down, beneath…*
*Make your wish come true and become a big, or very handsome boy *
*I could play, I could learn,*
*I could be so happy and spoiled*
*I could choose what I want*
*Because I was considered and Loved by you*
*I could love and I could run *
*And the best of all…*
*I could be, your Beloved Son!*

*You were my Angel on the Earth *
*You saved me from too early death*
*You gave me a chance to see what you see...*
*To see the Rainbow and the Sun,*
*To feel the snow and the rain,*
*To be protected from any pain, *
*To feel the Love on the Earth,*
*To say: thanks God for my birth!*
*We had one Christmas together, *
*But it was the best I swear*
*It was enough for me to see *
*What endless Love of my mom is... *

*I wanted to tell you that I am sorry,*
*For hurting you and for leaving you,*
*But you mom, you don’t have to worry, *
*You did your best for me*
*You know that I was born but not to live*
*Thanks to you I could stay*
*You did an impossible work*
*I was your, and you were mine, the best Sunshine ray.*

*Now mom when I am on the Bridge*
*I’ll send you all my Love that I can*
*Protecting you from up above *
*By sending you every day, I promise,*
*My best Golden smile *
*Encouraging you in your every future step*

*And as the Time means nothing here*
*Our separation will be just for a while*
*And then we’ll be together again *
*Running down floral meadows*
*Celebrating our never-ending Love*
*While Angels singing *
*A smile on your lovely face again bringing.*

*Thanks mom for your endless Love*
*Sending you the best Love that I can *
*To my forever beloved mom Em*

*Your son, Little Hen*
*Love & Light:--heart:*


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## mygoldenkids (Oct 4, 2010)

I haven't been on the forum in about a week or so, and I searched for this thread. I am so very sorry to hear about Henry. I think I speak for everyone when I say that you did everything that was both humanly AND humanely possible for him. You've been so hardworking and patient. Just know that there is absolutely nothing else you could have done.

Henry will find lots of friends at the bridge, as many of us have pieces of our hearts there.

Again, my deepest sympathies. Take care of yourself. The healing will take time, but it will come.


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## Tilly's Mom (Dec 3, 2010)

Just like everyone else on here I have been following your story from the beginning. I am so sorry it had to end like this. Please know that you have done everything possible for Henry. He is free and healthy now running with all the other angels. I know it doesn't help you but I am sitting here crying my eyes out. I am so sorry. Please take take of yourself even if you think nothing else matters without Henry by your side. I know it is really hard, I have been there but I promise it will get better and Henry will want you to be happy and healthy.
Big Hugs


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

This is such a sad ending , it took courage to do what you did, and it is clear you loved him.


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## bluefrogmama (May 31, 2011)

I just read this entire thread and felt like I couldn't read and run. I don't think I can say anything any better than what has already been said. I just want you to know I am thinking of you and hope you are doing ok. You have a huge loving community here that is supporting you and that is here for you. Big hugs to you!


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## ggdenny (Nov 2, 2008)

I too have been following Henry since you brought him home as a pup. I have to say that the outcome makes me very, very sad. I wasn't there and can't possibly know what you were going through, but I wish like hell that there had been another solution to save his life. I'm sitting here tearing up and shaking just thinking that this may not have been the only possible outcome for Henry. I'm not judging, just being my dog-loving, all dogs are worth saving self. I've written enough.

RIP Henry - a world of people loved you and were rooting for you.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I am so sorry Em. I had a mentally unstable dog I had to have put to sleep 4 years ago. I still mourn the fact that after 10 years of having her in my life, I wasn't able to fix her. But I also knew that if I had kept her alive much longer, I would start to hate her for all the stress she was causing all of us, and I couldn't bear to hate my dog. I loved her and she couldn't help the fact that she was off mentally. She never attacked us as family, though she did bite my son unintentionally when he was trying to break up a fight between her and Jasmine. But she attacked Jasmine at random times, at the end it was happening quite regularly, we could never figure out exactly what set her off. She also nipped a repairman who was here, and that's when I realized that she was becoming a huge liability.

I cried when I let her go and felt horrible guilt for at least a year. The guilt has eased, but the fact that I felt that I failed her took even longer. So take comfort that you did what you had to and eventually, your guilt will ease. My thoughts are with you and I am sending you cyber hugs because I know you need them.


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## Cathy's Gunner (Dec 4, 2008)

Hoping we hear from Em soon. Worried.....


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Me too, I'm worried about her


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

She was logged on a little while ago. I left her a message on her page saying I was glad to see her on here. I so hope she reads all the messages that affirm her decision.


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## puddinhd58 (Jan 15, 2009)

I am worried too..... everyone suffers such great pain when they lose their four legged buddies, but I am sure she is beating herself up with guilt also....
PLEASE don't Em..... 
Check in and just let everyone know you are ok.... we are here for you.....


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## Pilgrim (Jul 22, 2011)

I'm new here but took the time to read all of Em's story. She stood beside Henry and nurtured him even when her relationship was breaking apart and in spite of her family telling her she was wrong - and then she finally had no other choice. Henry was damaged - very damaged. All the love in the world could not overcome his deficiencies. But how can anyone know until they try and try and try again? Em did try - tried everything humanly possible and even then she kept trying. And the people closest to her continued to criticize her best and most selfless attempts to help Henry. In the end, she inevitably felt she failed. She didn't. Everyone here knows she didn't. She stuck by Henry when most would have quit. But I worry that the "real" people in Em's life are having quite a fest of "I told you so" going on with her. And that would hurt ... terribly. And she doesn't deserve it. She had hope for Henry and when she finally realized she had to say goodbye I fear she lost her hope along with her Henry.

I pray she realizes that her parents and her ex-partner were not wiser or smarter or "righter." They simply did not have the patience and hope that Em had. And, of all the good signs of character any person can have, hope and love and patience are far more valuable than being "right."

As I read Henry's story I think Henry's brain did not have sufficient nourishment during those critical early weeks before and after whelping. Without it, his nervous system did not develop properly. He was a Golden and by his very nature, he wanted his person (Em) to be happy. And he attacked her and bit her dangerously and frightened her and somewhere, in his head, he must have been so confused and so sorry but lacked any way to be able to stop his behavior. It is now apparent that Henry was broken. But Em gave him everything she could to try to find the true Golden within him. She finally released him so that all that damage - the twisted brain circuitry - fell away and he can now run free.

I hope Em takes pride in her ability to love and care. I hope she knows that letting Henry go was the ultimate act of love. And I hope she stands up to the real people in her life and says, "I will never be ashamed that I loved him enough to exhaust every possibility. I didn't give up on him. And I expect that you will not give up on me."

If Em can stand tall and appreciate that Henry helped her to discover the depth of her emotional and supportive strength, then Henry's time on this Earth will be worthy. And if she can take that strength and regain her hope, the world will be a better place because Em is in it. But first she needs to cry. It hurts when we first discover that no matter how much we care and how hard we try, sometimes we just can't fix it. I wish for Em peace in the discovery that, in the end, it isn't the fixing but the loving, the caring and the trying that is most important.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Pilgrim said:


> I'm new here but took the time to read all of Em's story. She stood beside Henry and nurtured him even when her relationship was breaking apart and in spite of her family telling her she was wrong - and then she finally had no other choice. Henry was damaged - very damaged. All the love in the world could not overcome his deficiencies. But how can anyone know until they try and try and try again? Em did try - tried everything humanly possible and even then she kept trying. And the people closest to her continued to criticize her best and most selfless attempts to help Henry. In the end, she inevitably felt she failed. She didn't. Everyone here knows she didn't. She stuck by Henry when most would have quit. But I worry that the "real" people in Em's life are having quite a fest of "I told you so" going on with her. And that would hurt ... terribly. And she doesn't deserve it. She had hope for Henry and when she finally realized she had to say goodbye I fear she lost her hope along with her Henry.
> 
> I pray she realizes that her parents and her ex-partner were not wiser or smarter or "righter." They simply did not have the patience and hope that Em had. And, of all the good signs of character any person can have, hope and love and patience are far more valuable than being "right."
> 
> ...


You are exactly right, and I hope Em reads this, and then reads it again, as well as everyone else's comments in support of her.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

She's in the UK, so it's likely she's in bed now. Hopefully she'll have an update on how she's doing tomorrow. Hugs to you Em!


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## T-Joy (Aug 22, 2011)

Please Em, give us a sign we are worried about you now.

Just say HELLO, we need to know that you are OK.

Hugs and kisses from Paris:--heart:


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

She was on at 5:02 am CST today, so hopefully she's reading how much we care and support her. Perhaps she just needs to soak in the support right now before she can post.


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## Cody'sMom (Nov 7, 2010)

I hope you are OK, em. You did the right thing freeing Henry from his mental anguish and unstability. It would not have been a good life for him. I see Henry would have been one year old on Tuesday, the 23rd so I imagine that is making it extra difficult for you.

In Barbara Woodhouse's famous book "No Bad Dogs" she says "Only the owners of unbalanced dogs can really know where the line can be drawn between a dog that is sane and one that is mentally unsound. No one can make up the owner's mind as to what to do with the last kind. I, as a great dog lover, feel it is kinder to put them to sleep. Surely, when all training and veterinary help has been exhausted and there is no hope that the dog will ever live a reasonably normal existence, it is kinder to the pet and owner to put the dog to sleep."

A friend of mine had an aggresive Golden she refused to put down. 11 miserable years later, the dog finally died of cancer. There really is no martyrdom in that.

I feel so sorry for you and am very sorry your experience with your first dog as an adult ended in heartbreak. You certainly did all you could and the best you could.
Much love,
Connie and Cody


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I also am very sorry. Your story is beyong heartbreaking, I am very sad for you.

I look here everyday for you, I want to know you're okay. I'll keep on looking, every day.

{{hugs}}


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## em6984 (Dec 1, 2010)

Im sorry I haven't meant to make everyone worry... I just miss him so much. I dont know what to do with my life anymore. I feel I've committed the worst sin possible.

Ggdenny I truly believe I did all I could and I beat myself up thinking what you have said. Nobody can make me feel worse than I'll make myself feel. The vet had told me if Henry was attacking just when someone said the word no it was dangerous. My choice was to have henry on a muzzle at all times or save his soul. I hate myself for it but I did the most humane thing possible


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## T-Joy (Aug 22, 2011)

Em as I said in my previous post, I ADMIRE YOU! Not for doing the final act but for everything you did from the very beginning. 

You tried everything Lady, don’t keep yourself in the state of a guilty person. It’s not a sin that you did, it’s ACT OF LOVE. Yes, you saved his soul and dignity!!!

In some other case I would say that you should try more and more, but in yours…

Take care of you now; Little Hen will be happy to know you are happy!

Hugs and kisses from Paris :--heart:
Tania


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## luverofpeanuts (Jun 9, 2011)

em6984 said:


> Im sorry I haven't meant to make everyone worry... I just miss him so much. I dont know what to do with my life anymore. I feel I've committed the worst sin possible.


So glad you checked in here. I won't pretend to understand how you feel, but I know you are suffering. I truly believe you did what took the most love, and strength; and that was to save Henry from himself. Something which he could not do. I believe Henry hated that he hurt you but that at times he just couldn't stop himself. You saved him, and you feel guilty for having the slightest sense of relief for yourself. I will just stop there because so many other posters have said much more eloquent words of support that I could write. I hope the support you feel from the forum can help you through this time to find peace and a way to feel good about life again.


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

My condolences to you. You definitely did everything you could have done for Henry. Do not beat yourself up. May he run free.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

em6984 said:


> Im sorry I haven't meant to make everyone worry... I just miss him so much. I dont know what to do with my life anymore. I feel I've committed the worst sin possible.
> 
> Ggdenny I truly believe I did all I could and I beat myself up thinking what you have said. Nobody can make me feel worse than I'll make myself feel. The vet had told me if Henry was attacking just when someone said the word no it was dangerous. My choice was to have henry on a muzzle at all times or save his soul. I hate myself for it but I did the most humane thing possible


 
I'm so glad you checked in Em. You are absolutely right you did do the most humane thing for Henry.

I sincerely hope you will be able to look back at his life and understand you have nothing to feel guilty for. You GAVE him so much.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

You did the right thing, do not beat yourself up!! Here's my perspective: 19 years ago, my 6 month old son was diagnosed with microcephaly. No one knew what that would mean, but at around 3 years of age, he was diagnosed with autism. I had a choice, I could beat myself up about it(what did I do to cause this, etc?) or I could say to myself everything happens for a reason and that's why I have Drew. I chose the latter thought. And my beliefs were further reinforced when an insensitive co-worker said, " I could never have lived with a child like Drew." What's so hard about Drew? Nothing... and I could never have lived with her insipid, shallow daughters either. 

I think ggdenny's post was wrong on so many levels. I am here to say as a veterinarian of 25 years that I have seen dogs that you cannot salvage. Many years ago, a client brought in his 1 1/2 year old neutered bullmastiff. The dog had savagely attacked him and the only reason the owner wasn't badly hurt is that it was Winter and the owner was a big man wearing 2 coats. The dog had jumped up and latched onto his arm and the only way he could get the dog off was to break the close by baby gate on his head. This man had a a baby (obviously). At first he didn't admit that the dog had ever bitten anyone else... However, he finally confessed that a friend of his with a teenage son who the dog knew well had been bitten as well. The dog had gone for the son's head(fortunately, he had on a motorcycle helmet) and ended up biting his shoulder. Due to how unpredictable the incidences were, I could not recommend training(the dog IMO was dangerous). And guess what? Bullmastiff Rescue didn't want him either. And yes, I euthanized a perfectly physically healthy, but severely unstable dog.

From all of your earlier posts, you tried so hard with Henry... but what you went thru is not what people sign on for when they choose a golden as a pet. It is always hard to lose a pet, but please do not feel guilty.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

I'm glad you're okay, Em. I've been following this thread and I just wanted to tell you to go easy on yourself.

You did not fail Henry. You saved him. What if he'd gone to someone who didn't love him as much as you did, and might not have been so understanding? You showed him patience and love and when there was nothing else that could be done, you did the most humane thing possible and you freed him.

We went through something similar with our GSD, Gunner. He had a medical issue that was starting to affect his nervous system. He went from a gentle, loving dog to a dog who was very unstable and miserable. He had pretty severe generalized anxiety because of his condition, developed _severe_ separation anxiety after we moved and started getting aggressive with strangers. We thought that it was just the move that had upset him and tried everything to work him through it. He saw several different vets and we consulted two behaviorists after he lunged at a little girl with serious intent to do harm. I didn't like what they were telling me, so we kept trying. I was terrified every time I took him outside. I never knew when his wires would cross and he'd try to hurt someone. I was always afraid that someone would come too close, he'd get away from me and we'd have a tragedy on our hands. Finally, when he got to the point where his condition was affecting him physically and the vet convinced me that there was nothing we could do to fix him, we let him go. 
With the benefit of hindsight, I realize that we probably waited too long to release him from his troubles. But for a _long_ time, I beat myself up. I kept going through the 'what if we'd tried one more behaviorist?' 'What if we'd tried one more vet?' (Getting beat up by people who didn't live with him and didn't understand didn't help, either.) It took me a long time to realize that nothing we could have done would have helped him. 

I think it's always so much harder when it's the dog's mind that isn't right. We don't see the clear-cut, physical symptoms of suffering, so we think there has to be something we can do to fix their problems. But, unfortunately, sometimes there just isn't. The kindest thing we can do is to release them from their troubles.
I believe (or at least, I hope) that in time you'll come to feel that way. In the meantime, please be good to yourself. Henry was so very lucky that he found you. Please remember that.


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## Deb_Bayne (Mar 18, 2011)

Perhaps they are not stars
but openings in heaven
where the love of our children
with fur pours through and shines
down upon us to let us know
they are at peace.









​


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## mygoldenkids (Oct 4, 2010)

"There are things that we don't want to happen but have to accept, things we don't want to know but have to learn, and people we can't live without but have to let go." ~Author Unknown

I hope you find strength and peace during this difficult time.


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## doggiedad (Aug 27, 2011)

you've done your best for Henry. maybe Henry
isn't a sound dog or maybe Henry needs
someone that can do more for him. it's nice
to have a pet when you're going through trying
times but if the pet is a major part of the problem
then that part of the problem needs to be resolved.
if you decide to rehome Henry it could be better
for both of you. "no matter how bad things become
when we wake up to a new day it's beautiful day".


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## doggiedad (Aug 27, 2011)

to em6984: i'm sorry for your loss. i didn't follow the thread
closely enough to be informed about Henry.

to LuverofPeanuts: thank you for your pm regarding
Henry. i would have pm'ed you but i don't have enough
posts so i can't pm other members.


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## Logan'sMom (May 10, 2011)

Em -- Just wanted to say that you are in my thoughts. Like others said, you showed Henry love in everything that you did for him. Although I haven't been as active on the boards, I have followed your stories and they touched my heart. Henry was very lucky to have you in his life.


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## bioteach (Nov 13, 2010)

You are a brave and valiant lady, a woman of honor. It was destiny that Henry's life on earth would be brief, and he had an angel to watch over him. 

Bless you for all that you did for Henry, especially letting him go. 

Our our love, JR (Bioteach) and Nugget.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

em6984 said:


> I thought I could conquer all but I couldn't
> 
> As a last resort I had another behaviouist see Henry in our home and she wouldn't stay the full two hours and didn't accept payment as she believed this was the second worse case she'd seen.
> 
> ...


I am so very sorry for you. Please don't loathe yourself - you tried so very hard. Sometimes there are things we just can't fix.

You are in my thoughts and prayers. I cannot imagine the pain you are going through.

Bioteach said it so well I can only quote 

"You are a brave and valiant lady, a woman of honor. It was destiny that Henry's life on earth would be brief, and he had an angel to watch over him. 

_Bless you for all that you did for Henry, especially letting him go_."


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## em6984 (Dec 1, 2010)

Im having such a bad day today. I wish I could turn back the clock... Wish there was more I did. I can't believe my angel has gone, despite his problems, I love him so much. I scream in frustration at times, I can't believe I did it!!! Please don't ever make the same mistake I did, I feel I will be cursed and punished with my decisions forever.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

NO NO NO!!! You did the most loving, humane thing possible.... you freed him of his demons. He was in a living hell because of how he was "wired" or made. And you sought out every possible aid in trying to make the most of his life, but, in the end, there was nothing humanly possible to fix him. Bless your heart... you will NOT be cursed or punished and you should not do it to yourself. You have a kind, loving, caring heart and soul. Please be kind to yourself. What you did takes great great love and courage.


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

em6984 said:


> Im having such a bad day today. I wish I could turn back the clock... Wish there was more I did. I can't believe my angel has gone, despite his problems, I love him so much. I scream in frustration at times, I can't believe I did it!!! Please don't ever make the same mistake I did, I feel I will be cursed and punished with my decisions forever.


Do not blame yourself! Scream, cry, holler, stamp your feet, but do not blame yourself. I've followed your story and honestly do not know what I would have done were I in your impossible shoes. You tried everything, loved him relentlessly, and in the end you gave him the most unselfish gift of all, you gave him peace and rest. Honor his memory by relishing in the good times and the joy he brought you. Let the bad things go. 

Hugs to you...you did not do anything wrong, unkind, unloving, or selfish. You have nothing to feel guilty for.


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

NO please dont feel like you made a mistake! You have done all you could do for Henry, you went way above and beyond. It was not healthy anylonger for you and not fair to Henry to live with the problems he had...do not regret it..


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## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

Em, you did everything you could and more, although you feel it ended in tragedy it would have ended in a far worse type of tragedy and probabley one that would have been taken out of your hands hun,...please try to remember the bad times...it is natural to remember the good ones and forget the fear...but you had some very very hard times and so did your darling Henry,..the two of you suffered and loving someone or something is being able to love them enough to let them go...thats exactly what you did. Big hugs to you. I know its hard. But it was hard. And it wasnt right as it was. You did the right thing. Truly.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Em, is there someone who you could talk to about your grief? Maybe a clergy member or a grief counselor? Of course feel free to vent with us, but someone local who is trained to help grieving humans may be helpful.

I hurt for you and I would like to be able let you see that you should not feel guilty, that you did everything possible to help Henry and in the end you sent him free and gave him peace.

You loved Henry and Henry loved you, you did what you needed to do for Henry to be at peace and happy, now he would want you to be happy and at peace. Forgive yourself for Henry.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

From, everything, you have talked about ,and said you tried, you really tried to help that poor boy, seems there was just something off, in his little mind, he could not help it, you seem to have loved that little guy, so he knew that he was loved.


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky (Feb 22, 2011)

I don't know what more to add that the others before me have not already said. 

I am just SOOOOO GLAD to hear from you! 

Love,


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

em6984 said:


> Im having such a bad day today. I wish I could turn back the clock... Wish there was more I did. I can't believe my angel has gone, despite his problems, I love him so much. I scream in frustration at times, I can't believe I did it!!! Please don't ever make the same mistake I did, I feel I will be cursed and punished with my decisions forever.


No, no, no. Em please don't be so hard on yourself. Think for a moment, you would not want Henry to continue with the mental instability he was going through, during those episodes he had to be terrified as well as you. 

Oh honey, you really, honestly you did everything possible to help him. Even the last choice was made out of love and for his benefit.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Please seek out someone to talk to who can help you process everything that happened, I'm so worried for you.


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## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

Em, please do not blame yourself. You did the most loving thing for your Henry, you released him from the pain that he must have been feeling...whether it was mental or physical pain. I am so sorry..but please do not blame yourself. xxoo


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## Zoey's Mommy (May 16, 2011)

Em, 
I know how you feel. I often wonder if I made the right choice and in those times I have to remember all the times she bit me and my kids. Please know you did do the right thing. There are some dogs that no matter how hard you try and how much you love them you cannot fix them. You could not fix him but god can and has. If anything be angry at the breeder. There had to have been some bad breeding there. 

I know it may feel early yet, but have you considered opening your heart to another pup/dog? A new furbaby to love may help ease your pain and give you a friend again. Please consider this but also if you do just make sure you meet both parents and check their temperment.


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

Em, I would be tempted to go back to your vet. They will reassure you that you made the right decision (and you did make the right decision). There was really nothing else that could be done, you or someone else would have ended up badly injured. Anne


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## em6984 (Dec 1, 2010)

Thank you everyone - I keep thinking that my story needs to be highlighted and people need to know the consequences of poor breeding. Not only was henry living a poor life but I feel mine has been turned upside down and I truly don't think I will ever forgive myself.

I am seeing someone for this because the guilt is tearing me up - I do really hate myself, I truly can't believe there's nothing more I could have done. I tried so hard, effort wise and money was never an issue.

I miss my boy dearly and I really hope my little chap is blessed and happy now.... I love you Henry =)


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## ggdenny (Nov 2, 2008)

I'm sorry you went through this. I'm sorry Henry had to go through this. When you feel like it could you post something in the Rainbow Bridge section with some pictures of that wonderful little boy?

I didn't know him personally, but I miss having him in this world.


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