# TPLO surgery wake-up call!



## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

Wish I could be of more help, but I think other would be more qualified to give good behavioral/training advice. I just wanted to wish you luck with Lucia.


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## Kimi's dad (Apr 3, 2007)

Our 2-year old golden, Gracie, had TPLO surgery in December & I can't believe how well she's doing now. You would hardly know she ever had surgery 5 months ago. Our surgeon gave us a sedative to use. He said to use it for 6 weeks. He said we'd be helping ourselves & Gracie. He said it would keep Gracie from running around, as she likes to do. We didn't give it to her for the 1st few days as we didn't want to give her something that just made it easier for us. We thought we'd try it though as I cringed every time Gracie got up to investigate every little thing that happened. We started out with the recommended dose, which really knocked her out. We then went to half-dosage which turned out to be perfect. Just took the edge off her. Not sure about your specific issues but I bet mild use of a sedative would help a bunch. I guess not all vets give a sedative but might be worth checking into...


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## pine (Jan 16, 2010)

I'm SO GLAD to hear that the TPLO surgery worked out so well for Gracie! That's really reassuring - I've been worried about whether she'll be able to do everything she used to, so thanks for the encouragement.

About the sedatives; that's a good point. I forgot to mention that our vet said we could use Benadyl - both for the itchiness of the incision and as a mild sedative. We have used it (50 mg at a time) but it's not usually enough to slow down her normal busybody behavior. Thanks for mentioning it, I'll talk to my vet. But I still need to work my own behavior!


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## Kimi's dad (Apr 3, 2007)

pine said:


> I'm SO GLAD to hear that the TPLO surgery worked out so well for Gracie! That's really reassuring - I've been worried about whether she'll be able to do everything she used to, so thanks for the encouragement.
> 
> About the sedatives; that's a good point. I forgot to mention that our vet said we could use Benadyl - both for the itchiness of the incision and as a mild sedative. We have used it (50 mg at a time) but it's not usually enough to slow down her normal busybody behavior. Thanks for mentioning it, I'll talk to my vet. But I still need to work my own behavior!


I guess each vet has their own opinion on sedatives as my dad's 6-year old female golden just had TPLO surgery but they didn't send my dad home with a sedative. They told him he could get one if he needed but figured since the vet didn't give him one he didn't need it. His girl runs around way too much in my opinion. The sedative would be my number one recommendation. Not sure about the behavior issues as Gracie has me wrapped around her finger (paws)...

PS- if Lucia seems bad now don't worry, she'll be her old self before you know it. The 1st 2 months were tough on Gracie (because I couldn't let her do much) but after that she's made improvement in leaps & bounds. It does take a while for the muscle strength to build back up but the bone is usually healed after 8 weeks, although we had to keep Gracie calm for an additional 8 weeks as the vet wanted to see a little more healing. I was saddened when I took her to the vet for her 8 week checkup to find that I had to keep her calm for another 8 weeks but that's all over & she's her happy-go-luck self...


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## GoldenMum (Mar 15, 2010)

:bowrofl:I have an 11 month old who had double shoulder surgery, with 8 weeks down after...we survived! Thank the lord for loopy meds...I'd never have survived!


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## pine (Jan 16, 2010)

Wow, yes! It would be so hard to go to the vet thinking you'll get the "go ahead" to return to business as usual, and then find out that she needs 8 more weeks of taking it easy!  Ugh.... that would be tough.

The thing is that these behaviors aren't really unique to the TPLO recovery, they've just been exacerbated by it. When you say she's got you wrapped around her paw; you still have to be able to go about your work at home without simultaneously entertaining her, right? How did you teach her that there are times when she can't be the center of attention and has to keep herself occupied? Did she try to "blackmail" you with threatening to chew something if you didn't give her attention?


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## pine (Jan 16, 2010)

GoldenMum said:


> :bowrofl:I have an 11 month old who had double shoulder surgery, with 8 weeks down after...we survived! Thank the lord for loopy meds...I'd never have survived!


haha, good to know! Was it the OCD surgery?


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

If you need it, you might as for some real sedatives. My vet sent some home with me for Robbie after TPLO, to use a week or two or more into recovery when he started getting really wired and antsy. It is CRITICAL that they rest and let the bone knit, so actually knocking them out if they are too hyper is one option. We only needed it about one week out of the 4 that he was strictly confined to the crate.


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## pine (Jan 16, 2010)

Thanks - I think you guys are on to something with the sedative idea!


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

If you're close to the Twin Cities, look into re-hab therapy offered at the U of M Saint Paul campus. They have a great program and will get the dog up to snuff on that leg in a very short time.


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## pine (Jan 16, 2010)

Swampcollie said:


> If you're close to the Twin Cities, look into re-hab therapy offered at the U of M Saint Paul campus. They have a great program and will get the dog up to snuff on that leg in a very short time.


Oh, neat! Thanks!


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## Luci (May 26, 2009)

I liked your post! It seems like you're thinkin ahead. 

I don't have much advice to offer, but with treat/calorie ratio... could you try apples or carrots or green beans? Something that seems like a big reward, but has less of those dratted calories in them?

Good Luck!


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## pine (Jan 16, 2010)

Luci said:


> I liked your post! It seems like you're thinkin ahead.
> 
> I don't have much advice to offer, but with treat/calorie ratio... could you try apples or carrots or green beans? Something that seems like a big reward, but has less of those dratted calories in them?
> 
> Good Luck!


 
Thank you!! Actually, I appreciate that suggestion because I never got into the habit of giving Lucia raw fruit or veggies, and it's a good idea. Thanks again:wavey:


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I did two TPLO's on one dogs (both knees) she was a senior so rehab was pretty uneventful. Then I had a THR (total hip) on a 1 year old pup and she had to stay quiet for 3 months.... Yup that was fun. 

Sedatives helped us. We did not need to keep her on them, just until she got into a sedentary routine. Just like people they can grow lazy. However one thing to discuss with your vet, is swimming. Maxine was cleared to swim almost immediately after her sutures were removed after her TPLO. She could not walk but she could swim. Check with your vet, then see if there are any facilities near you. You can help disipate energy that way too. We did swim therapy with Teddi post THR when the vet cleared her about 12 weeks post op. The surgeon said she does not need therapy, I said I need a way to get her energy out without putting strain on her leg if she can't go for walks and runs. It really helped. Then when she was ok to go for walks, she was stronger physically, and less fresh mentally. 

An option to investigate.

Just to add my TPLO dog Maxine. She did great through both surgeries. Her second was just over a year from her first. The second knee went taking the strain while the first one healed. She was 8 for #1, coming 10 for #2. She never took a bad step again. We never found a need for NSAID's for limping ever again. She kept up with our young dogs, swimming, jumping, running sure she got shorter strided but that could have been old age too. No way to know. I lost Max this past fall from cancer. Her knees never bothered her again in her life. She was 12 1/2. Be diligent about following post op instructions and you should be fine. When you get cleared, go back slowly, slowly increasing exercise time and type. Don't risk re injury. 

Ann


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## pine (Jan 16, 2010)

Thanks Maxs Mom - sorry to hear Maxine isn't with you anymore. She was a very pretty dog (I like the princess getup). Lucia really loves swimming but we're not supposed to let her swim until 6 weeks after the surgery, and even then we have to walk her in and not let her do it for more than 5 minutes. But it sounds like you went to a therapy pool ... I'll have to look into that, as well as sedatives. Thanks so much for the support and info.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

My training plan would go something like:

1) Training. Teach my dog to do a prolonged down-stay and/or settle on a mat. I would also use the (newer/updated-ish) Karen Overall relaxation protocol. You can find an older variation on google...drop out the punishment parts. If you need help on teaching a stay, let us know. In the classes I do, we teach "Get 5 steps from your dog" "Owner spins in a circle" and then "owner sits in a chair" and most dogs get to the third part on the first 2-3 weeks.
2) Also teach a nose touch and response to name.
3) Feed ALL meals through kibble dispensing toys, by creating a water-kibble mush to put in kongs (and frozen) OR through training. You might be able to get your kibble in smaller pieces to allow for more reinforcement. Wear your treat pouch around the house (or put kibbles in your pocket). Be prepared to reinforce good behaviors.
4) Avoid settings where she is troublesome. This means putting her in another room, crated, etc while you are doing your human resting things. OR give her a chew BEFORE you sit.
5) If she barks, leave the room ASAP. You forgot to turn off the stove! And then make a mental note of the setting and that you should not have had it happen.
6) Find an instructor/qualified professional who can help you. PM me if you need help I can possibly refer to someone in your area or who might know who can help you.


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## Maya's Mom (Apr 13, 2009)

pine said:


> How did you teach her that there are times when she can't be the center of attention and has to keep herself occupied? Did she try to "blackmail" you with threatening to chew something if you didn't give her attention?


As much as it may seem like she is "blackmailing" you, dogs really don't think like that. They don't think about getting revenge. They chew on furniture, etc. because it is a strong instinct and chewing is a basic need for dogs. If your goal is to stop all chewing, you probably won't succeed. However, you should be able to redirect her chewing to appropriate items. I recommend kongs, marrow bones, and antlers. This will not only help sastisfy her urge to chew, but it will also help her feel more comfortable alone and teach her how to amuse herself. You can make all sorts of kongs. You'll want to start out with really delicious things (meat, cheese, etc.) in order to get her more comfortable chewing by herself. Maya has several favorite kong recipes. One of her favorites is mashed banana mixed with peanut butter. Once you make the banana/peanut butter mixture, you can mix in kibble. Then freeze it so it last longer. Her other favorite is a veggie kong. I read an article posted on here that said that broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, and brussel sprouts reduce the risk of cancer, so I use those veggies, but you could use anything. I put the vegetables through a food processor until they are well blended, then add plain, lowfat yogurt and sometimes a little bit of cheese. I freeze those ones too. She loves yogurt and cheese and she likes veggies too. If you are trying to limit calories, I think a veggie kong might work well. You can also soak kibble in hot water for a while and then mash it and put it in a kong. Maya wasn't very impressed with that one though! 

You want to avoid situations where she can continue to chew inappropriate things. The act of chewing is a reward for her, so she is being rewarded (indirectly) for doing the wrong thing. This may mean you have to crate her more, or loop her leash through your belt-loop (called umbilical-cording) so you can always be watching her when you are home. I think while you are training her, it may be best to either have her crated or umbilical-cored to someone. That way she doesn't keep practicing the unwanted behavior. 

Definitely try to do your best to avoid thinking in terms of blackmailing and your dog maliciously trying to manipulate you. Think of it just as that she doesn't understand the rules yet, and she needs your help to learn them. It is easy to become angry with the dog when you think they are doing something to bother you, and dogs sense that, making training more difficult. They really aren't smart enough to think in terms of blackmail and revenge. They act in ways that have worked in the past. From your post it sounds like you have been reinforcing this behavior, which will make it take longer to retrain her. Consistency is the most important part. It sounds like you have put a lot of thought into making things go more smoothly. I think you're on the right track! Good luck! :crossfing


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