# Matigan Goldens in San Diego?



## Goldenlover001 (May 10, 2019)

Been looking for a golden for a while now, but I’m looking for one that looks similar to Tucker Budzyn (all over the Internet). I’m obsessed with his fluffiness and face. I came across Matigan Goldens and I’m thinking about getting a puppy from them. Does anyone have any experience with this breeder? I’m very nervous in general and not sure exactly what I need to be looking for. Thank you so so much for your help!!!

She has 2 litters and here is the parents info of each:

Sire: Vonschenk's Last Stand At Matigan CGC EYE13 OFA24G (SR98750802)
Dam: Bonanza Matigan June Bug OFA24G OFEL24 (SR92974801)

DOB: 03/15/2019 (8 weeks old)
Sire: Shadalane's Caliber Gabriel EYE27 OFA26G OFEL25 (SR94433006)
Dam: Matigan's Dana Scully EYE11 (SS00994101)

The puppies are each $3000

Edit to add: Grew up with Goldens and had a dog the last 13 years of my own that we lost in November (not a golden). Yes, I’m very well aware of the golden breed and what they require. I only mentioned the “look” I am looking for as they are extremely hard to find with the wide face and puffy fur so I thought maybe someone would know a breeder in SoCal as the only breeder I’ve found that I know have that Tucker look is in Michigan so we may need to purchase from that breeder. Thank you!


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## 153330 (Dec 29, 2016)

Hi! Great that you love Goldens! 
Welcome to the forum - there are many Golden experts here who can advise you :0)
So - where to start answering your post:
I guess the first thing is, what do you want a Golden Retriever for? Seeing a cute one on the internet doesn't necessarily mean that you ought to just go out and get a look-alike... are you sure you know what sort of dog a Golden Retriever is? (Big, smelly, hairy and slobbery) Are you sure you can offer a loving and healthy forever home? (They're expensive in every way, and need a lot of 1-2-1 time, and even more excercise).
Have you done your breed homework? Don't just ask a forum - go and read books, visit shows, look up breeders and their programs, find out what genetic issues they have, and *read" the AKC standards for Golden Retriever dogs. These guys are special.... :0)
Once you do that, I think you'll look at the website of the breeder you are considering and wonder why there is quite a lot of information missing about their breeding dogs, clearances, health testing, etc. 
Also, buying a 'ready made' pup comes with pros and significant cons. You need to educate yourself about these before you buy any pup regardless of breed.
If you want to avoid significant heartache later, please do your homework on the Golden Retriever breed now, before you buy. Be realistic about your situation and what you can offer a dog. They're not ornaments or trophies.
Good luck and keep us posted :0)
:0)


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Sire: Vonschenk's Last Stand At Matigan CGC EYE13 OFA24G (SR98750802)
>>> Sire is missing elbows https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1937111
Dam: Bonanza Matigan June Bug OFA24G OFEL24 (SR92974801)
>>> Dam has outdated eyes (check with the breeder to see if they have the clearance but hasn't sent them in https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1886899


DOB: 03/15/2019 (8 weeks old)
Sire: Shadalane's Caliber Gabriel EYE27 OFA26G OFEL25 (SR94433006)
>>> Sire heart is practioner only instead of either Advanced or by a cardiologist (this doesn't follow the GRCA guidelines) https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1991961
Dam: Matigan's Dana Scully EYE11 (SS00994101)
>>> Dam turned 2 years old 2 months ago. No hip or elbow clearances but it might just be a delay in reporting. Check with the breeder and ask for copies of their clearances. https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1942042

There is a user her LJack who posts what clearances should look like so you can tell if you're reading the real thing or not.  

FWIW - I paid $2500 for my girl 10 months ago. But I've heard SoCal prices are jumping to $3k so that alone doesn't say anything one way or the other. 

Will this be your first dog? Your first golden?

Edit to Add: I took a look at their website and nothing is looking out of place per se. But for me, personally, I would pass on both litters because the four core clearances are not up to ethical standards for either pairing.


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## Goldenlover001 (May 10, 2019)

Thank you very much for your help! This will just be a family dog with no breeding or shows, just wanted to add that! ?


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

Goldenlover001 said:


> Thank you very much for your help! This will just be a family dog with no breeding or shows, just wanted to add that! ?



Doesn't matter if you're going to title the dog or use it for a heating blanket in bed with you  health clearance are stacking the odds in your favor the dog is healthy long term. You don't want a blind dog from cataracts or a bad heart leading to a short lie or anywhere from 4-8 years of age and expensive and painful, debilitating hip or elbow dysplasia (can be between $5k-10K to correct).


Getting a dog from lines that have 4+ generations of health clearances is what you should be looking for. If you're spending 2-3K for your dog, why get a puppy with those types of health risks?


Edit to add: The best thing I can tell you is look for breeders that have dogs that look the way you like and then vet the heck out of them. scrutinize all their dogs and make sure they are doing the minimum 4 core health clearances (Hip/Elbow at 24 Months or older, heart by cardiologist and eyes yearly). Then it's just a choice on which dogs you like better. It could be a head style you like, a color but that is all the last thing AFTER you know they are reputable by doing the health clearances. Go and look up the Golden Retriever Code of Ethics and that is what they should be doing before deciding to buy.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

For $3000, you should get full health certifications on both parents. That is not what you are getting. 
I will post the lacking health certifications for this breeder. Then i’ll Do another post showing what you should see.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Here is an infographic and screen shot that will help you determine if there are full health certifications. Take the parents registration name or number to www.ofa.org and look them up.


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## Goldenlover001 (May 10, 2019)

LJack said:


> Here is an infographic and screen shot that will help you determine if there are full health certifications. Take the parents registration name or number to www.ofa.org and look them up.



Thank you so much LJack!!! This is so helpful!!! Ya, we want a perfectly healthy golden, especially if I’m buying from a breeder. This is extremely concerning that all of those health checks are not up to date. Thank you so much for helping us understand what we need to look for. I’ve already talked to over 25 breeders in the last year and all of the dogs were over $2500 and none of them had the health clearances that even these litters have (which are still incomplete). This is actually scary to me. We are filling to drive to other states if that’s what it takes to get a healthy pure bred golden. I could be wrong but it feels as though SoCal breeders are taking advantage of the system.


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## Goldenlover001 (May 10, 2019)

LJack said:


> Here is an infographic and screen shot that will help you determine if there are full health certifications. Take the parents registration name or number to www.ofa.org and look them up.



Should I just expect to get the parents health records or should I also be asking for previous generations health records? I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you LJACK!!!!!!!!


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

For $3000.00 I would think your should get full certifications on parents and on the generations behind them. If you are looking at imported dogs, the generations behind may not look the same as US born dogs as other countries don’t always have the same stringent standards we have in the US. 

As far as taking advantage of the system, it is more like taking advantage of a lack of knowledge. I find it very unethical to present dogs as fully tested if they are not. Buyers are certainly at a disadvantage in this interaction. That is why I spend as much time educating as I do. 

I am sending you a PM that might be helpful.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

There are plenty of breeders in Southern California doing things right. You may just have had some bad luck. Have you emailed the GRCSDC and GRCGLA for litter referrals? I'm also happy to help if you would like to PM me.


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## Tesoro (Jan 4, 2019)

I know this breeder well and she is responsible breeder who produces puppies with the look you’ Seeking. She’s used my stud dog with nice results.
I want to add some thought on the heart clearances. The change from accepting practitioner heart auscultation to cardiologist heart auscultation is recent (2-3 years ago), so keep that in mind when looking at these litters. 
Also, the most important thing is to get a warranty on your puppy. Responsible breeders will give a 2 year warranty on hips, elbows, heart and eyes.


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

Tesoro said:


> Also, the most important thing is to get a warranty on your puppy. Responsible breeders will give a 2 year warranty on hips, elbows, heart and eyes.


Sorry, I respectfully disagree with a warranty being "the most important thing." I think parents with health clearances on hips, elbows, eyes tested by ophthalmologist, and heart tested by a cardiologist are the most important to me. What good is a warranty if you love your dog and would never want to give it up due to a health issue? I'd rather have a dog with reduced chances of a health issue because the parents have verifiable good health clearances and a lineage of good health.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Tesoro said:


> Also, the most important thing is to get a warranty on your puppy. Responsible breeders will give a 2 year warranty on hips, elbows, heart and eyes.


Seriously, such warranties are all but useless. Some breeders even require that you give your puppy back, something no one ever does. And the warranty doesn't provide a healthy dog, only some measure of economic relief if the dog is not healthy. A dysplastic dog is going to be dysplastic no matter how great that warranty is. You might get some cash or a replacement puppy, but the dog you have is always going to be dysplastic.

The "most important thing," IMHO, is all required health testing, and then I'd add genetic testing on top of that.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Tesoro said:


> The change from accepting practitioner heart auscultation to cardiologist heart auscultation is recent (2-3 years ago), so keep that in mind when looking at these litters.


That is not accurate. The Cardiologist heart certification has been in the GRCA CoE and CHIC standards for about 8 years at this point. 

Most breeding bitches are well under 9 years of age and should have a Cardiologist heart certification or it would be considered deficient. There certainly could be some older stud dogs out there that were tested by a practitioner prior to 2011. However, stud dogs tend to be tested to the latest offerings first and many oldsters had been tested by a Cardiologist years before it was added to the CoE.


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## ChrisFromOC (Sep 19, 2018)

Goldenlover001 said:


> Thank you so much LJack!!! This is so helpful!!! Ya, we want a perfectly healthy golden, especially if I’m buying from a breeder. This is extremely concerning that all of those health checks are not up to date. Thank you so much for helping us understand what we need to look for. I’ve already talked to over 25 breeders in the last year and all of the dogs were over $2500 and none of them had the health clearances that even these litters have (which are still incomplete). This is actually scary to me. We are filling to drive to other states if that’s what it takes to get a healthy pure bred golden. I could be wrong but it feels as though SoCal breeders are taking advantage of the system.


I live in Orange County, and began our search for a puppy last fall. This forum was an excellent resource and helped point me in the direction of several breeders who were doing things right in terms of breeding practices, and they also had a solid history of success. I also talked with many others who did not quite check all of the boxes that one should inquire about — many of these people seemed quite nice and put out reasonable explanations for missing clearances, etc., but in the end there’s no reason to take a shortcut. 

I don’t think you will have any problem locating a fantastic litter in this area, just be patient and make sure that you select a breeder who is doing everything they can to produce healthy and breed standard puppies.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

Tesoro said:


> Also, the most important thing is to get a warranty on your puppy. Responsible breeders will give a 2 year warranty on hips, elbows, heart and eyes.



Agree, Warranties are really a selling tactic as like Dana said, no one gives up the puppy and only will get SOME monetary help, MAYBE. Usually that at most might be the cost you paid to buy the pup, what 2-3 but usually far less even then that. A Hip replacement will cost 7-10k. Some will just give you another puppy if you return the dog with bad hips. If you're not getting the full health certifications at the minimum and having 3-5 generations back with those health certs, you're playing Russian roulette with the health of those puppies.


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## three retirees (Aug 31, 2018)

No health clearances might mean you will have a million dollar dog. Hip dysplasia surgery is about $3000 per hip. 



$3000.00 per puppy. Yikes. Drive a little, save a lot! Breeders north of Rancho Santa Fe will usually be cheaper. The breeders does not do confrontation or show their dogs. But they are on the AKC marketplace. 



Just my 2 cents.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

three retirees said:


> The breeders does not do confrontation or show their dogs. But they are on the AKC marketplace.


Are you saying that Matigan doesn't show their dogs? I've seen their dogs at shows. In fact, my handler showed one of them. This one: Pedigree: CH Matigan Dharma Bum

Matigan also wanted to buy a show puppy from us, though we ended up keeping him and are currently showing him ourselves.

So, she does show.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

three retirees said:


> No health clearances might mean you will have a million dollar dog. Hip dysplasia surgery is about $3000 per hip.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dana is right, they have shown their dogs. In addition, $3,000 is the average price for puppies in Southern California these days. Some are $3,500.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

three retirees said:


> $3000.00 per puppy. Yikes. Drive a little, save a lot! Breeders north of Rancho Santa Fe will usually be cheaper. The breeders does not do confrontation or show their dogs. But they are on the AKC marketplace.
> 
> 
> 
> Just my 2 cents.



I think he was saying the dogs further north and cheaper are the ones whose breeders do not show their dogs - but they're on AKC marketplace. And they're cheap! (Probably have no health clearances or proper socialization, but, hey, cheap!).


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## Tesoro (Jan 4, 2019)

The first OFA heart clearance for my dog was auscultation by a vet practitioner. This was 2016, 3 years ago. This clearance was valid for the life of my dog. OFA changed their requirements after 2016. We now need auscultation by a cardiologist to get a heart clearance and the adult onset clearance has to be updated by a cardiologist annually. For my own comfort, I had echocardiograms by a cardiologist performed in order to confirm the health of my dog’s hearts (more accurate than auscultation).
By all means only purchase a puppy whose parents have all their health clearances, but also be aware that this does not guarantee that your dog will have healthy joints, heart or eyes. If we could eliminate these issues from the breed by careful breeding, they would already be gone. 
As an owner, you also have an obligation to raise the puppy with joint health in mind, no excessive exercise or jumping, healthy weight, no early neuter, etc. Please go to the GRCA website to read accurate information on health and get guidance on purchasing a healthy puppy.
Also remember that the contract you have with your breeder should be open to negotiation. If their warranty seems inadequate, you should feel free to modify it, or walk away from the deal. Good breeders stand behind their puppies both emotionally and financially for the life of the dog.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Tesoro said:


> The first OFA heart clearance for my dog was auscultation by a vet practitioner. This was 2016, 3 years ago. This clearance was valid for the life of my dog. OFA changed their requirements after 2016.


This is still incorrect. Cardiologist heart exams have been the standard for Golden heart certifications since 2011. In 2016 you chose to do a deficient (for Goldens) practitioner exam. You could still choose to do that same deficient heart certification today. 

OFA doesn’t set what is required for any breed, the breed clubs do. There are breeds out there that do not have the same heart disease risks that Goldens do and therefor a practitioner or specialist heart certification is appropriate for that breed. For that matter there are test we don’t run on Goldens provided by OFA because we don’t generally have that issue in our breed such as patellar luxation. In 2011 the Cardiologist component was added to the GRCA CoE and the requirements for OFA CHIC designation. Any dogs born after 2010 would need to have a Cardiologist heart certification, anything else is deficient.


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## three retirees (Aug 31, 2018)

> Originally Posted by *three retirees* View Post
> _The breeders does not do confrontation or show their dogs. But they are on the AKC marketplace._
> Are you saying that Matigan doesn't show their dogs? I've seen their dogs at shows. In fact, my handler showed one of them. This one: Pedigree: CH Matigan Dharma Bum
> 
> ...





> Originally Posted by *three retirees* View Post
> _
> $3000.00 per puppy. Yikes. Drive a little, save a lot! Breeders north of Rancho Santa Fe will usually be cheaper. The breeders does not do confrontation or show their dogs. But they are on the AKC marketplace.
> 
> ...


Maybe you should peruse their web page. I did not find anything saying that they were showing their dogs. But they do say that they train their dogs. Matigan Golden Retrievers - About Our Program BUT, you as a show dog breeder would see them at shows that I do not attend, Thanks for the correction.


I know of some breeders NOT in SoCal who show their dogs AND charge about $2000.00. A significant discount to $3500.00. Hence my comment about drive a little and save a lot. 



Three retirees.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Tesoro said:


> The first OFA heart clearance for my dog was auscultation by a vet practitioner. This was 2016, 3 years ago. This clearance was valid for the life of my dog. OFA changed their requirements after 2016. We now need auscultation by a cardiologist to get a heart clearance and the adult onset clearance has to be updated by a cardiologist annually. For my own comfort, I had echocardiograms by a cardiologist performed in order to confirm the health of my dog’s hearts (more accurate than auscultation).



I think you are thinking of the new forms for OFA heart clearances - the Advanced Cardiac forms. That change may have been in 2016 and only cardiologists can use those. But the GRCA recommended a cardiologist heart clearance prior to that time.


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## Tesoro (Jan 4, 2019)

I guess my point here is that: (1) heart clearances by auscultation should be updated annually. (2) puppy buyers should examine the clearances to be certain that they are up to date (3) SAS can be subclinical before 18 months, so heart clearances after age 2 are a better indicator of heart health (3) echocardiograms after age 2 should be the GRCA standard in my opinion. (4) heart clearances or any health clearance (except DNA) do not guarantee a healthy puppy. If we could breed out the major diseases impacting our dogs, we would. The clearances we have are all we have now.


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## Goldenlover001 (May 10, 2019)

LJACK, I hope you are well. I’m still on the hunt. Talked to over 50 breeders by this point. Not one has had the proper certifications out here in SoCal. I’m done looking in this area. Question for you: do the certifications need to be done every year to adhere to the Golden retriever standards or just one time after the dog is 24 months? I couldn’t find it on their website.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

*Goldenlover001*-have you looked at this list of Breeders in this thread?

https://www.goldenretrieverforum.co...468618-southern-california-breeders-list.html


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

GRCA recommends clearances for eyes be done yearly and requires owner to send to OFA.. cost like $12.00 for OFA submission. In my opinion this would be best if eye clinic was required to submit as it's really easy to forge these. Hips/elbows done once after 24 months (these rads are submitted to OFA directly from the clinic/vet that did them) heart for GR should be done once after 15 months by cardiologist and owner is required to submit to OFA, it too is like $12 to submit so no excuse not to send them in.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Hips and Elbows are a one time certification at or after 24 months. 

Heart is a one time certification done by a Cardiologist at or after 12 months. 

Eyes are the only repeating certification and should be done yearly or at the very least, less than 12 months prior to the breeding you are buying a puppy from.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Goldenlover001 said:


> I’m still on the hunt. Talked to over 50 breeders by this point. Not one has had the proper certifications out here in SoCal. I’m done looking in this area.


Wow, I cannot believe that. Where are you looking, Craigslist? Check out the list that Carolina Mom kindly linked you to. That's a list I created. Every single one of those breeders has all the proper health certifications. _Every_ one. Someone linked you to that list back in June, but you neither acknowledged it nor posted in your thread again.

Also, you say you've contacted over 50 breeders in SoCal. But you haven't contacted me, and I have all clearances and certifications on all my breeding dogs and follow the GRCA Code of Ethics to a "t", so you're not being very thorough. There is a higher concentration of ethical breeders in the greater Los Angeles are than anywhere else in the country. How you can contact 50 and not find a single one of them is beyond me. Did you look at the puppy referral pages for the GRCGLA.org or the San Diego Golden Retriever Club? Every breeder listed on those websites has all the proper certifications and clearances.

Wherever you've been looking, you're fishing in a dry hole. Try going where you might catch something. You've had some good suggestions.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Tesoro said:


> I guess my point here is that: (1) heart clearances by auscultation should be updated annually. (2) puppy buyers should examine the clearances to be certain that they are up to date (3) SAS can be subclinical before 18 months, so heart clearances after age 2 are a better indicator of heart health (3) echocardiograms after age 2 should be the GRCA standard in my opinion. (4) heart clearances or any health clearance (except DNA) do not guarantee a healthy puppy. If we could breed out the major diseases impacting our dogs, we would. The clearances we have are all we have now.


I never saw this post- but the CoE doesn't require repeats of auscultations done by cardiologists. The new ACA clearances do say that for 'adult onset' they should be repeated yearly but Goldens for the most part don't have adult onset cardiac conditions and most all of our issues the dogs are born with or develop during first year. Should they be repeated annually? Probably are without benefit of cardiologist clearance- most people I hope do take their dogs in for vet visits. I don't believe a practitioner clearance is ever enough for a heart clearance in our breed- but we're not asked to repeat auscultations by cardiologist yearly.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Goldenlover001 said:


> LJACK, I hope you are well. I’m still on the hunt. Talked to over 50 breeders by this point. Not one has had the proper certifications out here in SoCal. I’m done looking in this area. Question for you: do the certifications need to be done every year to adhere to the Golden retriever standards or just one time after the dog is 24 months? I couldn’t find it on their website.


Eyes- yearly. 
Heart- by cardiologist (number will end w C-VPI, C-PI or C-NOPI OR start with ACA)
hips/elbows- after 24 months of age.


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## floofmonkey (Jul 19, 2020)

HiTideGoldens said:


> Dana is right, they have shown their dogs. In addition, $3,000 is the average price for puppies in Southern California these days. Some are $3,500.


I know this is an old thread but I've had large breed dogs, including 3 goldens, for the last few decades. My last golden who came from a reputable breeder cost me endless heartache and around $28,000 in vet bills for the worst case of elbow dysplasia imaginable. Surgery was $7K and the remainder was acupuncture, meds, lifelong aquatherapy, and so on. I actually got him when he was 3; he was a retired champion show dog. We had clearances for heart, eyes, and hips going back 3 generations. Elbows were incomplete. 

He was PTS at home in 2008, unrelated to the dysplasia. But we had 9 years of treatment because I fell in love with him and got sloppy on the details. Just a warning...


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## ClaireD (8 mo ago)

Tesoro said:


> I know this breeder well and she is responsible breeder who produces puppies with the look you’ Seeking. She’s used my stud dog with nice results.
> I want to add some thought on the heart clearances. The change from accepting practitioner heart auscultation to cardiologist heart auscultation is recent (2-3 years ago), so keep that in mind when looking at these litters.
> Also, the most important thing is to get a warranty on your puppy. Responsible breeders will give a 2 year warranty on hips, elbows, heart and eyes.


Hi I know this post is old. But I am looking for the same type of golden! What is the breeders name for the confirmation breeder? Thx!


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## Tesoro (Jan 4, 2019)

ClaireD said:


> Hi I know this post is old. But I am looking for the same type of golden! What is the breeders name for the confirmation breeder? Thx!


Jan Arkless Wilson of Matigan Golden Retrievers. She’s located in Rancho Santa Fe, CA


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## vasarely1 (7 mo ago)

HiTideGoldens said:


> There are plenty of breeders in Southern California doing things right. You may just have had some bad luck. Have you emailed the GRCSDC and GRCGLA for litter referrals? I'm also happy to help if you would like to PM me.


i dont know how to PM but i desperately need recommendations regarding golden breeder recommendations. . .if you could possibly respond to me i would be most appreciative


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

vasarely1 said:


> i dont know how to PM but i desperately need recommendations regarding golden breeder recommendations. . .if you could possibly respond to me i would be most appreciative


Welcome!

Here is a link to the Forum's FAQs that will help you navigate the board.

FAQ | Golden Retriever Dog Forums (goldenretrieverforum.com)

To send a PM (conversation) to a member, click on the member's avatar, it will take you to their User page.

Scroll down to "Start Conversation" as shown on your user page-












Here is a list of SoCal Breeders you can look through-

Southern California Breeders List | Golden Retriever Dog Forums (goldenretrieverforum.com)


If you need further assistance navigating the Forum, feel free to contact me or any member of the GRF Mod Team.

Staff members can be found here-

Staff members | Golden Retriever Dog Forums (goldenretrieverforum.com)


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