# Lepto Vaccine?



## Otter (Feb 23, 2011)

Lepto Vaccine?

My wife has been doing a lot of research on vaccines and our dogs.

We are going to start doing titer tests for everything except the lepto vaccine. I guess titer tests aren't available for that.

We might not do lepto anymore. I know a number of Golden breeders/handlers in the area that don't do any vaccines after a certain age. 6 or 7 or so I think.

We live in a suburb of Cleveland (no Cleveland jokes please  ). We rarely go into the woods, river, or lake with them anymore. And, they are rarely unattended when they are in the back yard. I can't find any info whether or not Lepto is a problem in this area.

Anyway, and I'm not wanting to start a vaccine vs. no vaccine debate, but I am wondering what some of you folks do regarding the lepto vaccine. 
*Yes or no. Why or why not.*

Thoughts?

Thank you.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

I give the lepto vaccine to my golden retriever because he tolerates it well. However, our toy poodle had a very severe reaction last time we gave him this vaccine - we thought he was going to die - and the vet and I agreed that we wouldn't give it again. There's a small risk to this, but we feel it's less than the risk of exposing him to the vaccine.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

I do the lepto vaccine because we are regularly out in ponds and rural areas, where she could easily drink racoon pee or eat racoon feces (or other that of other wildlife). If we were not doing that, simply hanging out in more urban parks and such, I would not do it. Lepto is not a big risk in Toronto, but my vet recommends it for us because of the activities we do and where we do them.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Living in the city, my vet stopped giving Lepto years ago because so many dogs had problems with it. Something I hadn't even noticed actually.

Critter poop in the yard can cause a problem even if you don't see the critters and seems to be quite yummy to dogs. 

Maybe it's more about my peace of mind but when the vets says it's common in this area, I include it. So if your dog can tolerate the shot, do it. Lepto can shut down their kidneys before you even know they are sick, why chance it?


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

My boy receives the lepto vaccine, lots of critters in my yard due to an overgrown vacant lot next door to me that has all kinds of critters living in it and also because he goes swimming in the InterCoastal Waterway. 

Here is info from the AVMA site on it-

https://www.avma.org/public/PetCare/Pages/Leptospirosis.aspx


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I'm actually heading to the vet in a couple minutes to get the lepto vx done with my 2 goldens. 

I do live in a marshy wooded area where there have been infected dogs per my vet.

However, every time I hear somebody say think it's just a rural thing and they are safe in the city... I wonder if they realize that this disease is carried/spread by rodents! Worst cases here in Michigan that I can tell by googling were in the Detroit area due to rats carrying the disease and also spread by stray dogs (infected by the rats).


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

The newer lepto vaccination doesn't have nearly the reactions the older one did.
I always get the lepto. Having watched 2 dogs I boarded at the pet hotel die slow, painful, horrendous deaths from lepto scared the poop out of me. Both were just suburban, subdivision dogs.
BTW, it's correctly given in Feb. or March.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Ours is included with the annual shots. I believe that it must be a problem in our area. Lots of lakes and ponds and we do live right in front of a 1100 acre woods. Chloe had never had a issue with it.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

hotel4dogs said:


> The newer lepto vaccination doesn't have nearly the reactions the older one did.
> I always get the lepto. Having watched 2 dogs I boarded at the pet hotel die slow, painful, horrendous deaths from lepto scared the poop out of me. Both were just suburban, subdivision dogs.
> BTW, it's correctly given in Feb. or March.


Is there a reason it is given in Feb or March? Chloe got hers in April when she had her yearly checkup.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Because it only lasts about 9 months, so you want them protected through the height of the lepto "season".



Cpc1972 said:


> Is there a reason it is given in Feb or March? Chloe got hers in April when she had her yearly checkup.


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## djg2121 (Nov 22, 2015)

Otter said:


> Lepto Vaccine?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I’m in upstate NY, and there has been a surge in Lepto in the NE over the past couple years. A lot of dogs that were rescued after the hurricanes and brought north had it, and it’s not uncommon in wild animals. I was advised by the Vet in my family to absolutely vaccinate. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I vaccinate my dogs, they are field dogs and may come into contact with it.


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## sophieanne (Feb 4, 2014)

I live in a suburban area in WA state and after talking to my vet, we do not give them the vaccine. The vet said if they don't go into the woods, on trails or in lakes, etc. it shouldn't be an issue.


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

Back in 2008, my Dogue de Bordeax, contracted Leptosporosis. I live on Long Island, Ny, a suburban area outside New York City. He became deathly ill very quickly. Could not hold food down and drank little to nothing and would not move from his bed. My Vet did blood work and gave fluids. Kidney and liver numbers were very bad. After two days, at 4am, I took him to the emergency Vet. The minute I told her about the blood work, she suspected Lepto. Since the blood work to confirm it took a few days, she began to treat him just in case it was Lepto. It was!! Thankfully he recovered because he was treated quickly. I've never seen an animal so sick!
This happened in the month of September and every summer there after he received the vaccination with no ill effects as does my boy Murphy. I do give two benedryl before the trip to the Vet, as a bit of a precaution. 
Thankfully I had insurance because the bill for treatment and follow up blood work reached in the vicinity of $5000.00.


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

PS.....we don't do woods, rivers or trails. We walk thru neighborhoods. We do have raccoons etc. If there is wildlife where you live, there can be Lepto.


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

Otter said:


> We might not do lepto anymore. I know a number of Golden breeders/handlers in the area that don't do any vaccines after a certain age. 6 or 7 or so I think.
> 
> 
> Anyway, and I'm not wanting to start a vaccine vs. no vaccine debate, but I am wondering what some of you folks do regarding the lepto vaccine.
> ...


It doesn't matter the age of a dog if they were to contract Lepto or not.

The best advocate is your vet. I asked my vet about Lepto vet long ago and he asked me questions like where do you go and what does your dog do?

Oh, we romp in puddles around cranberry bogs and get muddy. He said you should get it then. Enough for me.

Lepto vac is only good for 6-9 months so it's why you do it come spring. Just my opinion.


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## joro32000 (Feb 25, 2017)

No lepto or any other vaccination for my Gatsby this year or ever again! 

A week ago I brought Gatsby for the usual, annual set of vaccinations and after hearing about Gatsby seizures the vet declined to vaccinate him and recommended no further vaccinations in a future. Gatsby will not be vaccinated against rabies either (the only vaccination required by law here) as the vet has a right to excuse a dog from rabies vaccination if there is a medical condition. 

We live in a wooded area, and go for a hike every day. Swimming in a creek/pond is part of Gatsby daily activity. The vet, who is also located in a wooded area close by, said that during her 35 years of practice she only seen 2 dogs with lepto. One dog was not vaccinated against the disease and the other one had lepto vaccine, but apparently the vaccine is good only for about 6 months. She said the risk of catching the lepto is very small comparing to the side effects of vaccination. 

On the other hand Rufus, my other golden, who went for his annual exam a week before received a full set of vaccinations from the same vet without mentioning any side effects of vaccinations. I guess the vet has to always weight the costs and benefits on individual basis.


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## Berna (Jun 14, 2016)

I've stopped all vaccines back in 2011 (my dog was 5), except for rabies (law). We live in the city, but walk regularly in rural areas as well. He is a Lab, so he swims everywhere, even dirty ponds. Never had an issue with lepto. Talk to your vet if it's an issue in your area and how many cases he sees, if any. 

Also, keep in mind that the lepto vaccine isn't really effective. It protects for only up to 6 months and only against certain streams. If you give it annually, your dog is not protected. Also, if lepto is an issue in your area, watch out for symptoms, it's curable if caught early, since the vaccine is no guarantee that your dog won't get it.


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## Otter (Feb 23, 2011)

Thanks everybody for taking the time to provide feedback to my questions!
I think we are going to continue with the lepto vaccine for now.


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

we live on a farm, with a creek running thru our property and lots of critters. So we do the lepto. Usually I think in March or so.


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## Melfice (Aug 4, 2012)

Berna said:


> I've stopped all vaccines back in 2011 (my dog was 5), except for rabies (law). We live in the city, but walk regularly in rural areas as well. He is a Lab, so he swims everywhere, even dirty ponds. Never had an issue with lepto. Talk to your vet if it's an issue in your area and how many cases he sees, if any.
> 
> Also, keep in mind that the lepto vaccine isn't really effective. It protects for only up to 6 months and only against certain streams. If you give it annually, your dog is not protected. Also, if lepto is an issue in your area, watch out for symptoms, it's curable if caught early, since the vaccine is no guarantee that your dog won't get it.


I also stopped all vaccines after my pups got their final set of puppy shots. But, I had to get the rabies booster today for my two dogs because the city is asking for them. It has been over 5 years since they got any vaccine, but I hate giving them the shots. 

The only reason I think the city sent the letter, was because of our ***hole neighbor made a complaint about the dogs "barking" too much. The dude is a prick, and the dogs do bark if he is riding his bikes. He does not seem smart enough to figure out dogs don't like bikes (motor) lol

Anyway, the vet said the city won't take blood tests to see if the dogs are still immune to the rabies virus, and I think that's unfair. I don't like giving the dogs vaccines if they are not needed but what can I do about it. I hope this is the final time I have to give them the rabies shots going forward.


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## Goldens&Friesians (May 31, 2014)

My first golden, Autumn, had terrible vaccine reactions to lepto-like she almost died. We never gave her lepto again after we figured out it was that vaccine she was reacting to. She went in the woods and camping with us all the time and was fine. She lived to be 15 1/2 years old. I've been doing more research on vaccines myself. Because of what happened with Autumn, I'm gun-shy on lepto. My current golden April also goes camping, hiking in the woods, and trail riding with us on our horses in the woods. From what I've researched, even if you live where lepto could be a problem it is very rare to get it. The article I read suggested asking your vet how many cases of lepto he's treated. They said most vets have never had lepto cases. I looked into titering last year, but it was going to cost like 3x as much as just doing the vaccines so in the pressure of the moment I let myself be talked into doing the vaccines. I'm considering stopping all vaccines except rabies since its required by law. My current golden is 7. From what I've researched, the core vaccines have been proven to last at least 7 years and rabies has been proven to last at least 3 years. Lepto only lasts a few months.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

I titer everything I can and only give the Rabies every 3 years. My vet won't even give a multi shot with Lepto in it. They say it should never be given to a puppy less then 6 months of age. It's also not a vaccine, its a Bacterin. This means there isn't immunity to but it helps lessen the reaction. Also because it is a bacterin, it can be shed in the stools by your dog, infecting your dog with Lepto and other dogs as well. Plus the reaction rate is fairly high.


If you're in an area where it is rampant and a high rate of infection I would consider it but otherwise I would not touch Lepto for my dogs.


Here is also a very good read on Titer testing. https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/titer-testing-dog/
https://www.avma.org/News/JAVMANews/Pages/160701a.aspx


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## Barlosh (Sep 1, 2018)

I've never had lepto vaccine with any of my dogs in the 40+ years I've owned them and they have never caught the disease. There's a Facebook group about lepto vacs and the posts on there are heartbreaking. The founder of the Dogmatic head collar also lost a prize winning Dobe after a Lepto shot and she's just one of hundreds here in the UK. Her story features on Canine Concerns website and like many others is hearwrenching. Mine have one puppy shot at 20 weeks old when mothers immunity may no longer cover them and no more shots for life and they have all been walked prior to shots in order to avoid the nervousness that often accompanies the older puppy. 
The less chemicals/drugs in my dogs the happier I am and I'd never trust a vet to tell me about vaccines as I know they are in drug companies pockets.

I have always had multiple dog households and currently have five so all in all I'm talking about many dogs of mixed and pure breeds.


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

Goldens&Friesians said:


> My first golden, Autumn, had terrible vaccine reactions to lepto-like she almost died. We never gave her lepto again after we figured out it was that vaccine she was reacting to. She went in the woods and camping with us all the time and was fine. She lived to be 15 1/2 years old. I've been doing more research on vaccines myself. Because of what happened with Autumn, I'm gun-shy on lepto. My current golden April also goes camping, hiking in the woods, and trail riding with us on our horses in the woods. From what I've researched, even if you live where lepto could be a problem it is very rare to get it. The article I read suggested asking your vet how many cases of lepto he's treated. They said most vets have never had lepto cases. *I looked into titering last year, but it was going to cost like 3x as much as just doing the vaccines so in the pressure of the moment I let myself be talked into doing the vaccines. * I'm considering stopping all vaccines except rabies since its required by law. My current golden is 7. From what I've researched, the core vaccines have been proven to last at least 7 years and rabies has been proven to last at least 3 years. Lepto only lasts a few months.


If you haven't yet, join the Dr. John Robb - Protect the Pets Facebook page. The sticky has a link about how you can send blood to Dr. Robb and the associated costs to get the titers done, which at first glance seem pretty reasonable to me. 

https://www.facebook.com/DRRobbPTP/


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I give Lepto to all my dogs. As a kid, I saw a lepto dog, and the suffering stayed in my mind's eye. I know it isn't 100 percent, but I wouldn't forgive myself if all our hiking resulted in one of my dogs coming down with Lepto if I hadnt tried.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

Ljilly28 said:


> I give Lepto to all my dogs. As a kid, I saw a lepto dog, and the suffering stayed in my mind's eye. I know it isn't 100 percent, but I wouldn't forgive myself if all our hiking resulted in one of my dogs coming down with Lepto if I hadnt tried.



I'm sorry you have to go through that Ljilly28. Don't know if you saw my earlier post but The Lepto shot isn't a vaccine and doesn't give immunity. It just helps lessen the reaction. It's a Bacterin. It doesn't protect from contracting the Lepto. Read the 1st link in an earlier post in this thread and you'll get the info on it.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> I'm sorry you have to go through that Ljilly28. Don't know if you saw my earlier post but The Lepto shot isn't a vaccine and doesn't give immunity. It just helps lessen the reaction. It's a Bacterin. It doesn't protect from contracting the Lepto. Read the 1st link in an earlier post in this thread and you'll get the info on it.



I would be very interested in further explanation of the above sentences in red, including scientific references - and I don't count "Dogs Naturally" as a scientific source. My understanding of a bacterin is that it's a component in a specific type of vaccine. This is not what the above suggests.


Vaccination is a subject I feel strongly about. My first husband became wheelchair-bound for life after he contracted polio because his parents thought vaccines were risky.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

ceegee said:


> I would be very interested in further explanation of the above sentences in red, including scientific references - and I don't count "Dogs Naturally" as a scientific source. My understanding of a bacterin is that it's a component in a specific type of vaccine. This is not what the above suggests.
> 
> 
> Vaccination is a subject I feel strongly about. My first husband became wheelchair-bound for life after he contracted polio because his parents thought vaccines were risky.



The lepto vaccine used in Canada is the Recombitek 4 Lepto. It prevents the disease (doesn't just lessen the effects of the disease), and studies have determined there is immunity up to 15.5 months after vaccination. 

https://www.drugs.com/vet/recombitek-4-lepto-can.html

I had asked my vet about it after I read here that it only lasts about 9 months - I wondered if Shala should be getting it more often. She told me the one used i Canada provides protection for at least 12 months (it is easier for people to remember an annual vaccine than a 15-month one). 

Here's a blurb from the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association:
Leptospirosis:
•
A number of variants, or biotypes, of the Leptospira
bacteria cause leptospirosis in dogs in North America, with some biotypes causing more severe disease than others. For some biotypes of this bacterium there is no vaccine commercially available in Canada, but vaccines do protect against the most commonly diagnosed ones
.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

Sweet Girl said:


> The lepto vaccine used in Canada is the Recombitek 4 Lepto. It prevents the disease (doesn't just lessen the effects of the disease), and studies have determined there is immunity up to 15.5 months after vaccination.
> 
> https://www.drugs.com/vet/recombitek-4-lepto-can.html
> 
> ...



Thank you! This is what I had understood from talking to my vet too: that it is in fact a vaccine and that it does in fact protect against the most common strains of the disease. We had a long discussion about it after our toy poodle reacted strongly to it. My Golden has no problem and continues to be vaccinated against Lepto because he swims a lot and runs off-leash in the forest almost every day. However, we no longer give the Lepto vaccine to the poodle because he doesn't swim (sinks like a stone in water) and isn't given to chasing wildlife in the forest, so the risk is much less in his case. But we're more careful with him too.


Both dogs get the other basic vaccines and the rabies vaccine on a three-yearly basis, and have no problem with them.


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## joro32000 (Feb 25, 2017)

Sweet Girl said:


> The lepto vaccine used in Canada is the Recombitek 4 Lepto. It prevents the disease (doesn't just lessen the effects of the disease), and studies have determined there is immunity up to 15.5 months after vaccination.
> 
> https://www.drugs.com/vet/recombitek-4-lepto-can.html
> 
> ...


Very interesting. I guess there are 2 kinds of lepto vaccines in Canada. My vet told me in June this year the lepto vaccine lasts only for about 6 to 8 months and we are only about 40km apart. I will ask her again about it when I am back at the clinic.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Sweet Girl said:


> The lepto vaccine used in Canada is the Recombitek 4 Lepto. It prevents the disease (doesn't just lessen the effects of the disease), and studies have determined there is immunity up to 15.5 months after vaccination.
> 
> https://www.drugs.com/vet/recombitek-4-lepto-can.html
> 
> ...



I saw when looking at the link you provided, this vaccine is manufactured by Merial in Ga-



> For Veterinary Use Only.
> 
> Manufactured By MERIAL, INC., Athens, GA 30601 USA, U.S. Vet. Lic. No. 298
> 
> ...


Here is the info from Merial's website-

Merial Launches Combination Vaccine to Help Prevent Core Canine Diseases and Provide Comprehensive Leptospirosis Protection | Boehringer Ingelheim

I've always vaccinated my guys for Lepto-info I've read on the NC Vet Med School site says it's prevalent in the SE States where it's warm and humid which it is here. 

My guys have always gone swimming in the Inter Coastal Waterway. During the summer months the water is tested regularly for bacterial levels, they are usually high due to the warm temps, high humidity and warm water temps. Often times areas are closed, no swimming or fishing of any type is allowed.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> Here is the info from Merial's website-
> 
> Merial Launches Combination Vaccine to Help Prevent Core Canine Diseases and Provide Comprehensive Leptospirosis Protection | Boehringer Ingelheim



Thank you! This clearly confirms what SweetGirl's vet said, namely that the vaccine provides 15-month protection against the target strains. My vet also told me it was good for more than a year.


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## Goldens&Friesians (May 31, 2014)

rabernet said:


> If you haven't yet, join the Dr. John Robb - Protect the Pets Facebook page. The sticky has a link about how you can send blood to Dr. Robb and the associated costs to get the titers done, which at first glance seem pretty reasonable to me.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/DRRobbPTP/


Thank you! This is MUCH more reasonable than what my vet wants! Now if only I could find something like this for my horses too...


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

ceegee said:


> Maggie'sVoice said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry you have to go through that Ljilly28. Don't know if you saw my earlier post but The Lepto shot isn't a vaccine and doesn't give immunity. It just helps lessen the reaction. It's a Bacterin. It doesn't protect from contracting the Lepto. Read the 1st link in an earlier post in this thread and you'll get the info on it.
> ...


the article below clarifies a bit on the vaccine and bactarin. It explains a bit that the vaccine really doesn't offer verifiable immunity and that there hasn't been anything consistent clinically of the efficacy of the vaccines for Lepto. I think what the other article was talking about missed the explanation but the meaning is still the same. Immunity is still in question. Unless something has happened recently, my vet who works at a specialty clinic who all the vets are board certified in something said they don't offer Lepto unless someone as for it and then special orders it, they don't keep it in stock.

https://www.dovepress.com/recent-ad...velopment-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-VMRR


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> the article below clarifies a bit on the vaccine and bactarin. It explains a bit that the vaccine really doesn't offer verifiable immunity and that there hasn't been anything consistent clinically of the efficacy of the vaccines for Lepto. I think what the other article was talking about missed the explanation but the meaning is still the same. Immunity is still in question. Unless something has happened recently, my vet who works at a specialty clinic who all the vets are board certified in something said they don't offer Lepto unless someone as for it and then special orders it, they don't keep it in stock.
> 
> https://www.dovepress.com/recent-ad...velopment-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-VMRR



Actually this article says the vaccine _does _provide immunity from the strains of Lepto that it specifically targets, but doesn't provide verifiable immunity from strains it doesn't specifically target. It discusses the potential for a different type of vaccine offering wider immunity from more strains, but notes that, so far, effectiveness tends to decrease if too many strains are targeted. In other words, the vaccine is effective if it addresses only a few strains, and if those strains are the ones that are active in the area where the dog lives.


Our vet doesn't vaccinate systematically for Lepto, but she does recommend the vaccine for dogs that swim in ponds, lakes or streams, or that spend time in forests or in places where wildlife is prevalent. Since we live in a semi-rural area, spend lots of time in the forest and have access to ponds and lakes for swimming, she recommends it for my Golden.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

This also is from 2015 so that almost 4 years so the info I've had is also maybe older and there is newer vaccines at this point with better efficacy. Interesting that my vet didn't offer to new info since she told me this info a few years ago. 

Still not likely to use Lepto though and the potential severe reactions to it. As of 2 years ago my vet said they've only seen less then 10 cases since the 80s abd it's an area of concern and they don't vaccinate dogs for Lepto in their practice.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Chloe gets the lepto in the combination shot every spring. It must be common here because the vet never asked if we wanted it. We now live right in front of a woods and the area is considered wet lands. Even before we moved she swam in lakes and ponds a few times. So I think its smart to give it to her. She has never had a reaction.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> This also is from 2015 so that almost 4 years so the info I've had is also maybe older and there is newer vaccines at this point with better efficacy. Interesting that my vet didn't offer to new info since she told me this info a few years ago.
> 
> Still not likely to use Lepto though and the potential severe reactions to it. As of 2 years ago my vet said they've only seen less then 10 cases since the 80s abd it's an area of concern and they don't vaccinate dogs for Lepto in their practice.



Ultimately it's up to you as the owner of your dog as to whether or not you vaccinate your dog for Lepto.

It's obvious you live in an area where very few cases are reported, which is great. 

Everyone should educate themselves about Lepto-use reputable sites such as Vet EDU sites or AVMA, there's a lot of not so reliable sites out there.... 

Discuss how prevalent or how many cases of Lepto are reported in your area each year with your Vet and ask your Vet if they recommend if your dog should receive the vaccination. 

it's not a one size fits all situation..... it depends on where you live, what type of weather you have and what activities your dog does.


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## craigtoo (Jan 6, 2016)

I spoke with my vet last week about the Lepto vaccine for my boy. I wasn't too excited about giving him another shot (neither was our breeder). She (vet) said that for years she hadn't pushed it, or even recommended it, only in specific cases where a dog was going to a higher risk area. However, she also only heard of very few cases of it locally in 7 years. In the past year however, she said that they've treated 5 dogs for Leptospirosis and that now she's recommending it for all active outside dogs... I live on the Broadneck Penninsula, near Annapolis, MD. She believes the problem is that we've had such a "wet" summer (and now fall). There is alot of standing water around, and urine/feces from other animals is in those puddles.

So, in a few weeks, Scout will get the Lepto vaccine.


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