# Puppy nervous about Trainer?



## canine_mommy (Dec 27, 2010)

I have trained Austin (9 months old now) with positive reinforcement and he has done really well. He almost got his CGC, except that he gets super excited when another friendly dog approaches, so he couldn't hold his stay long enough. 

I recently started Competitive Obedience and have gone to 2 classes so far. Both he and I are learning and it is a lot more disciplined than the basic obedience stuff. Thing is, the trainer is strict, not mean, just strict. She keeps her voice stern and has the typical alpha approach. Somehow this makes Austin nervous (I think). She asked all dogs to line up in a stand, so that the "judge" (herself) could inspect them. Austin stood by my side very well, but moment she approached, he sat down, tail low, doing a nervous wag. She told him sternly to stand, and he goes further down. So she kinda forced him using his collar/leash to stand back up. And she had to hold him that way, otherwise he would again go down. Moment she let go of him, he turns to me and clings on to my leg using his front legs, like hugging. She wanted to demonstrate "Heel" with him and walked him, he kept turning to look at me, so she did a "Pop and Release" on his leash to make him look at her. He then tried more to run back to me. 

I am thinking this is because he's nervous about the new training. But the trainer said, it's because Austin has a mind of his own and wants to do things his way. She said a Prong Collar is what may be needed. I have heard both pros and cons of Prong collar and I don't want to get into that discussion. I am not sure I may be the right person to use it, because I don't want to yank on it with too much force and hurt him (I use a Martingale). I tried the same exercises at home and he did very well. Of course, it's a controlled environment, no dogs etc. So maybe that's why he did well as compared to the class...

I am not sure what to do. The trainer is very good, great reputation. But is Austin just nervous or does he really have an attitude? I guess I am just wondering aloud here... But anyone got any advice on how I can make him more comfortable in class, in case he really is nervous?


----------



## Angelina (Aug 11, 2011)

Looking forward to hearing others thoughts on this, especially people who train to show....

My gut is he is a sensitive golden, mentally immature and the last thing he needs is a prong collar. Also I don't agree with he "has a mind of his own and wants to do things his way"...heck he doesn't even know what is being asked of him! She is scaring him!

Question for you...does she usually train other breeds or does she mainly work with goldens?


----------



## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

nonononononono!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the wrong trainer for your dog. He may be immature and lacks confidence. Her harsh (imho) methods will just make this worse. The best thing you can do is withdraw from the class immediately and find a trainer who works WITH your pup at the level he's at.

He may not be ready for this level with any trainer. "Learning waits on maturation"


----------



## canine_mommy (Dec 27, 2010)

Angelina said:


> Looking forward to hearing others thoughts on this, especially people who train to show....
> 
> My gut is he is a sensitive golden, mentally immature and the last thing he needs is a prong collar. Also I don't agree with he "has a mind of his own and wants to do things his way"...heck he doesn't even know what is being asked of him! She is scaring him!
> 
> Question for you...does she usually train other breeds or does she mainly work with goldens?


There are 2 other Goldens in her class and the other breeds there were a Chinese crested, Sheltie. She has 2 Flat Coats of her own.


----------



## canine_mommy (Dec 27, 2010)

Penny's Mom said:


> nonononononono!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> This is the wrong trainer for your dog. He may be immature and lacks confidence. Her harsh (imho) methods will just make this worse. The best thing you can do is withdraw from the class immediately and find a trainer who works WITH your pup at the level he's at.
> 
> He may not be ready for this level with any trainer. "Learning waits on maturation"


He has done really well with me so far and in the Basic Obedience class too with another trainer. But there, we were more informal I guess, more about speaking in high tones, encouraging, making it fun. This Competitive Obedience class was more disciplined. I guess you may be right... maybe I should wait a bit more... The trainer is not actually mean or anything, I don't want to convey that. She is just a lot stricter than what he is used to, I guess...


----------



## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Not the class for your dog! I had my Selli in an intro competitive obedience class when she was still a pup and it was too much for her at such a young age even though no one was harsh with her. You need to make obedience training FUN for your dog or you will never get anywhere in competition. With Selli I focused on agility to give her confidence and fun. I wish I knew trainers to recommend in your area who focus on happy motivating training.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Thing is, the trainer is strict, not mean, just strict. She keeps her voice stern and has the typical alpha approach. Somehow this makes Austin nervous (I think). She asked all dogs to line up in a stand, so that the "judge" (herself) could inspect them. Austin stood by my side very well, but moment she approached, he sat down, tail low, doing a nervous wag. She told him sternly to stand, and he goes further down. So she kinda forced him using his collar/leash to stand back up. And she had to hold him that way, otherwise he would again go down. Moment she let go of him, he turns to me and clings on to my leg using his front legs, like hugging. She wanted to demonstrate "Heel" with him and walked him, he kept turning to look at me, so she did a "Pop and Release" on his leash to make him look at her. He then tried more to run back to me.


 
Few thoughts here...

I am thinking that your dog needs to have more confidence with approaches by confident/strong/dominant type people if you want to compete. Some judges try to be nonthreatening when they approach for the stand/exam, but sometimes you have judges...

And the methods of teaching him could be bad or not. Pulling on the collar to teach stand is not something I would do. I generally start with one hand on the collar and the other hand hovering on the belly while somebody pats him down. This teaches the dog to hold the stand pose while being touched. <- And ideally after your dog is rock solid with the sit/approaches that you do for the CGC test. 

The pop on the leash too is something I'd do to get a dog to focus. 

Your dog grabbing your legs doesn't necessarily mean he's scared or hugging you. Sometimes dogs respond to stress or excitement that way...



> I am thinking this is because he's nervous about the new training. But the trainer said, it's because Austin has a mind of his own and wants to do things his way. She said a Prong Collar is what may be needed. I have heard both pros and cons of Prong collar and I don't want to get into that discussion. I am not sure I may be the right person to use it, because I don't want to yank on it with too much force and hurt him (I use a Martingale).


If your dog is soft and cowing while you are training him, I would not put a prong on him. You might want to just try out a slip collar. (WHICH YOU ARE - I'm a horse person and get the wrong mental images when I read the word "martingale")

If your dog is hauling you around or tuning you out completely, then a prong might be helpful - if you have the instructor show you how to put it on your dog and use it. 

My instructor showed me the correction with the leash is just a tightening of the finger on the leash as opposed to the pop that you would need with any other collar. 



> I tried the same exercises at home and he did very well. Of course, it's a controlled environment, no dogs etc. So maybe that's why he did well as compared to the class...


Yep. Always happens. I've thought about inviting a judge to come over to our house to run me through patterns and sit/down stays here. It would be perfect! 



> I am not sure what to do. The trainer is very good, great reputation. But is Austin just nervous or does he really have an attitude? I guess I am just wondering aloud here...


I doubt it. 

To me it sounds like he might be a soft dog who needs more exposure to class. I would probably talk with the instructor about what you want to do with your dog. It's OK to set groundlines with instructors. Unless they are really egomaniacs, they should be able to work with you. If not, then if I were you, I'd probably find another program that I'm comfortable using.


----------



## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

I train for competition and I have a very sweet and wonderful but soft dog. I have to approach each new exercise with a bit of caution to make sure my immature boy learns to be confident with the activities.

It sounds like this trainer, although she has a good reputation, may not be taking into consideration the specific needs of your dog. If it were me I would find a different trainer.

Follow your gut...you know what is best for your dog and in my opinion, without actually observing what is happening, this does not sound like a good situation for a dog that needs to learn more about being confident.

Don't let this discourage you from the competition level of obedience training. Not all trainers use the same methods.


----------



## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Seems like the trainer needs to learn some things about dogs. I would quickly leave that particular class behind. There are many trainers who, even if they are not 100% positive, will at least know how to read you dog and work with his needs.


----------



## canine_mommy (Dec 27, 2010)

Selli-Belle said:


> Not the class for your dog! I had my Selli in an intro competitive obedience class when she was still a pup and it was too much for her at such a young age even though no one was harsh with her. You need to make obedience training FUN for your dog or you will never get anywhere in competition. With Selli I focused on agility to give her confidence and fun. I wish I knew trainers to recommend in your area who focus on happy motivating training.


I agree, it should be fun for him. He is a very quick learner and I have actually never seen him nervous around anyone before. I have enrolled in Agility, but it doesn't start till end of October. I guess that may be a better outlet for his energy.



BayBeams said:


> I train for competition and I have a very sweet and wonderful but soft dog. I have to approach each new exercise with a bit of caution to make sure my immature boy learns to be confident with the activities.
> 
> It sounds like this trainer, although she has a good reputation, may not be taking into consideration the specific needs of your dog. If it were me I would find a different trainer.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I will need to start looking into a different class for Competitive Obedience or maybe wait a bit more.



jackie_hubert said:


> Seems like the trainer needs to learn some things about dogs. I would quickly leave that particular class behind. There are many trainers who, even if they are not 100% positive, will at least know how to read you dog and work with his needs.


Thanks for your inputs. I will talk to the trainer about the situation and look into a different training approach.


----------



## canine_mommy (Dec 27, 2010)

Megora said:


> Few thoughts here...
> 
> I am thinking that your dog needs to have more confidence with approaches by confident/strong/dominant type people if you want to compete. Some judges try to be nonthreatening when they approach for the stand/exam, but sometimes you have judges...
> 
> And the methods of teaching him could be bad or not. Pulling on the collar to teach stand is not something I would do. I generally start with one hand on the collar and the other hand hovering on the belly while somebody pats him down. This teaches the dog to hold the stand pose while being touched. <- And ideally after your dog is rock solid with the sit/approaches that you do for the CGC test.


Thanks. Thing is Austin has always been confident, i.e. has never cowered or put his tail down when anyone approaches, new person, new dog. I have never seen him nervous actually. It was quite a surprise to me when he reacted that way to this particular trainer. Even during the CGC test, he was fine with greeting a new person, petting and inspection. He lost only on the "Reaction to another dog", he sat very obediently for a few seconds, then couldn't contain his puppy excitement (I took the test when he was 6 months old). And since he seemed to be doing well in all other aspects, I thought this may be a good time to start Competitive Obedience too.



> Your dog grabbing your legs doesn't necessarily mean he's scared or hugging you. Sometimes dogs respond to stress or excitement that way...


Makes sense.



> If your dog is soft and cowing while you are training him, I would not put a prong on him. You might want to just try out a slip collar. (WHICH YOU ARE - I'm a horse person and get the wrong mental images when I read the word "martingale")
> 
> If your dog is hauling you around or tuning you out completely, then a prong might be helpful - if you have the instructor show you how to put it on your dog and use it.


Till now he has not been cowering and stuff, but I will just stick to the slip collar. I will learn the right method to use the Prong Collar in any case; may be useful thing to know in future. 



> To me it sounds like he might be a soft dog who needs more exposure to class. I would probably talk with the instructor about what you want to do with your dog. It's OK to set groundlines with instructors. Unless they are really egomaniacs, they should be able to work with you. If not, then if I were you, I'd probably find another program that I'm comfortable using.


Thanks once again. I will speak to the instructor about this issue and maybe take the class later or with a different person.


----------



## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

canine_mommy said:


> Till now he has not been cowering and stuff, but I will just stick to the slip collar. I will learn the right method to use the Prong Collar in any case; may be useful thing to know in future.


There is no reason to think that you will ever need to use a prong on your dog. You can get everything you need to have a competitive dog using positive motivational methods, you just need to search out the right instructor.


----------



## Waggily Tail (Jan 11, 2009)

"There is no reason to think that you will ever need to use a prong on your dog. You can get everything you need to have a competitive dog using positive motivational methods, you just need to search out the right instructor. "

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Sounds like she didn't want to get into the prong debate. We have done many classes, none competitive as this is not our focus. All I know is what has worked for Maggie and me...positive, positive and more positive, so she wants to be close at my side. And it has gotten us out of some difficult situations, thank goodness. 

I think Austin is a smart boy.


----------



## canine_mommy (Dec 27, 2010)

Selli-Belle said:


> There is no reason to think that you will ever need to use a prong on your dog. You can get everything you need to have a competitive dog using positive motivational methods, you just need to search out the right instructor.


Not that I plan to use it. Just educate myself on the right way. But yeah, I don't think I would still be comfortable using it since I don't really like the idea of it.


----------



## canine_mommy (Dec 27, 2010)

Waggily Tail said:


> "There is no reason to think that you will ever need to use a prong on your dog. You can get everything you need to have a competitive dog using positive motivational methods, you just need to search out the right instructor. "
> 
> I wholeheartedly agree with you. Sounds like she didn't want to get into the prong debate. We have done many classes, none competitive as this is not our focus. All I know is what has worked for Maggie and me...positive, positive and more positive, so she wants to be close at my side. And it has gotten us out of some difficult situations, thank goodness.
> 
> I think Austin is a smart boy.


Thanks  Positive training does work really well for him. He has been very quick to learn things and is more than willing to do them when I ask. Even if I am not using my fun voice (after he did something naughty), he is quick to respond. This is the only time I've seen him nervous, so I guess that's a good indication that this training approach is not working for him. Like another member said earlier, he may be a sensitive guy...


----------



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Nobody can say for sure without seeing what is happening, but I agree it sounds like he's a little nervous at this point around the trainer. My trainer also has a strong personality like that and when Conner was young he would pee every time she did the exam on him. Conner also always tried to jump on me anytime he got anxious about something. I pretty much just ignored it and he quickly got over it. If he was jumping on me I would push him down and tell him to knock it off. I didn't want to feed into the bahavior and encourage more of it, but I didn't want to punish it either, so just a general attitude of not noticing it is how I approached it. Now he loves my trainer and can't wait to go see her.

Personally, I don't think there is any tool that is more effective for teaching competitive heeling than a prong collar. Yes great heeling can be taught without one but I like what I get using one so I do. 

What part of Dallas are you in? I know a lot of the competition obedience people up that way.


----------



## canine_mommy (Dec 27, 2010)

Loisiana said:


> Nobody can say for sure without seeing what is happening, but I agree it sounds like he's a little nervous at this point around the trainer. My trainer also has a strong personality like that and when Conner was young he would pee every time she did the exam on him. Conner also always tried to jump on me anytime he got anxious about something. I pretty much just ignored it and he quickly got over it. If he was jumping on me I would push him down and tell him to knock it off. I didn't want to feed into the bahavior and encourage more of it, but I didn't want to punish it either, so just a general attitude of not noticing it is how I approached it. Now he loves my trainer and can't wait to go see her.
> 
> Personally, I don't think there is any tool that is more effective for teaching competitive heeling than a prong collar. Yes great heeling can be taught without one but I like what I get using one so I do.
> 
> What part of Dallas are you in? I know a lot of the competition obedience people up that way.


I use "OFF" command when he jumps on me. Just that I have never had him cling to me like that. I live in Dallas, not one of the surrounding cities. But I can take class anywhere in the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex area. Could you provide me a list of trainers you would recommend?


----------



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I really like Joan Jung of Shiloh Road Kennels in Midlothian. She has goldens (and the most precious norwhich terriers).

Training - Shiloh Road Kennels


----------



## canine_mommy (Dec 27, 2010)

Thanks. I will try contacting her tomorrow regarding classes. I couldn't find a class schedule on her website.


----------

