# Newbie Questions: comments appreciated



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

You want hip, elbow, heart, eye clearances on both parents. And you should have 5 generations of those clearances. 

Both parents should be at least 2 years old and in good health.

If the breeder provides a guarantee of some kind, that might be helpful as well. Not so much "if it's broken, return for a new one". More like giving at least 1/2 the puppy price back to you if your puppy has a health issue. 

These are things you want to discuss with breeders.


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## Laurie Falter (Sep 26, 2011)

Your instincts are correct! That first "guarantee" is worthless! "Free of communicable diseases as appears to the eye"- what does that mean? That the pup won't be vomiting blood or dripping purulent discharge from its orifices when you pick it up? 

At a bare minimum, you want parents with OFA hip, elbow, cardiac, and current CERF (eye) clearances. You can also surf and cruise around the OFA website and see clearances (or lack thereof) for dogs farther back in the pedigree as well as littermates to the sire and dam and offspring on the ground. This will give you a better picture of what these lines are producing. 

Any health guarantee before the dog is 24 months is not worth the paper it is written on, IMO. I would expect to pay between $1,200-$1,800, and anything less than $1,000 and more than $2,000 would make me a little suspicious. Your initial puppy purchase price may be a little higher, but you will make it up in vet bills over the years!


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## goldprof (Oct 12, 2011)

Thank you very much. Your responses are really helpful!

Right now I am poised to reserve a female 1/2 American and 1/2 English Golden puppy for $1400. The following is included:

"Our dogs are AKC registered and have been cleared for hip, elbow (OFA) heart (SAS) and eye (CERF) defects. My studs have also been DNA tested. Our Goldens have excellent pedigrees with champion lines. We are also proud to be members of the Golden Retriever Club of America (GRCA). . . . We 
provide copies of all health certifications to you when you adopt a puppy. Our puppies are wormed, vaccinated, vet checked at 6 weeks and micro chipped before they go to their new families. Our puppies also have a 1 year health guarantee."

Does this sound pretty standard? I have also asked for additional information about the parents, including whether or not the clearances go back 5 generations. To me, it seems like a fair price since most English goldens are $2000. I'm not quite sure why they mixed the two lines and did ask the breeder if mixing is helpful in terms of long-term health prospects.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I'd want to see the proof of clearances before any money is exchanged.


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## goldprof (Oct 12, 2011)

PS-Looked on the OFA site as you suggested and found records of all the health clearances for both sire/dam. Also confirmed that the parents are 3 years old.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

goldprof said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am in the process of selecting a breeder for a golden puppy (we live in VA). I grew up with dogs, both pure breds and mixed breeds, but have never owned a pure-bred golden. What I am finding are breeders who sell golden puppies whose parents have health clearances and papers, etc. for approximately $850. Their contracts state the following (or similar) about the puppies: "This puppy has been bred by us and has been carefully and painstakingly reared. The parent animals were mated with the aim of breeding good and healthy puppies. Seller guarantees this dog to be free of communicable diseases as appears to the eye at the time of sale." Sounds a bit vague, right?
> 
> ...


A few thoughts. What exactly to you mean in the first one that they have "health clearances?" OFA hips and elbows, yearly CERF, heart by a specialist? This is what you want. Do any of these people you are looking at have websites? Often we can find out a bit more from there. Or even if you have the registered names of the dogs. 

Another thought is: microchipping and DNA testing DOES NOT make up for the different prices. Are these dog titled? Does the owner show them in obedience/conformation/agility/tracking/hunt tests? I would not pay $1500 unless the parents (or at least one) were Champions, in addition to all health clearances, etc. These are the breeders that take pride in their puppies and dogs. Also, don't think that you will necessarily find the perfect puppy near you. I got mine from a breeder out of Florida and then my pup was shipped to me from Chicago. Here are some places/people near you who may be able to give some guidance about what breeders to check out around you.
Tarheel Golden Retriever Club
Puppy Referral


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## goldprof (Oct 12, 2011)

Thanks for your advice. According to the breeder both parents are champions and I've been able to look up their clearances on the OFA website and trace their lineages back multiple generations. Is there any additional way to "prove" if a dog is in fact a champion?

What I've basically discovered by doing all this research over the past few weeks is that goldens from really respectable breeders in my general area cost anywhere from $1200-1800. I never thought I would spend so much money on a pet--at least not initially!

My husband says, why don't we just adopt a needy mixed golden puppy from a shelter or rescue society for $150-300 at some point? This is certainly a possibility. But we have small children and I am most concerned about adopting a healthy pet with an excellent disposition.


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## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

Post the registed names of the parents and the forum can offer you better help. As many will tell you be careful when it says "english creme".


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## goldprof (Oct 12, 2011)

Sire: Painted Knoll's Bodacious Ice Prince

Dam: Painted Knoll's Fanciful "Phoebe"


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

goldprof said:


> Sire: Painted Knoll's Bodacious Ice Prince
> 
> Dam: Painted Knoll's Fanciful "Phoebe"


Hm... I couldn't find the dam on k9data... anyone else?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Here they are...

Sire: Orthopedic Foundation for Animals
Female: Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

I don't see clearances going too far back on the boy, but that could be because this is a european dog?


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

From what I see, she does appear to do the health clearances. However, the dam is not on k9data. Also, her dogs are NOT champions. They may be from "champion lines" aka, there is a CH somewhere (anywhere!) in the dog's pedigree. It also looks like the dogs that do have CH in the male's pedigree were from Romania.  

Does anyone know what she means by DNA testing the sires? This means nothing to me. DNA testing for WHAT? 

Anyway, to me, personally, these pups are not worth $1400. She may be very nice and may take great care of her dogs, but you can find a GREAT litter for that much, one with many titles and health cleared dogs. 
Some examples:
Puppies
MULTI PURPOSE Litter due late Summer 2011

Good luck. We are here to help as much as we can!


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## goldprof (Oct 12, 2011)

Thanks, I just spoke with two other very reputable breeders over the phone and their American golden pups are going for $1300 and $1500. So $1400 is starting to look like the norm in VA/surrounds for golden pups from good, healthy stock.

The pups that are $1300 are also temperament tested around 7 weeks because the breeder is also a dog trainer, so she makes sure that the pups go home with the right family. 

So at this point we could either reserve the $1400 mixed US/UK golden pup or reserve a US golden pup for $1300. The only difference I can see is that the more expensive pup will be micro chipped.

Does anyone out there own a golden they've acquired through a rescue agency? That is, of course, always another option.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Microchip costs about $40.. wouldn't be a selling point to me... And I wouldn't settle for just the parents with clearances, you want to go back at least 5 generations. And I believe the European lines should also be doing one of the genetic tests for PRA... I agree with Mlopez, even though you want just a "pet". I firmly believe that people who breed dogs should compete in some venue with them.


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## goldprof (Oct 12, 2011)

Thanks, I'll keep doing more research and contact as many breeders as possible. Hard to believe I've spent weeks looking into this and still no puppy in sight!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Neither of the Painted Knoll parents have current eye clearances on OFA and the sire has my personal (not!) favorite of a practitioner heart clearance... NEEDS to be done by a cardiologist. So in fact, all of the clearances are NOT done.


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

Good luck with your search. 

I had to smile when I saw this question 


> Does anyone out there own a golden they've acquired through a rescue agency? That is, of course, always another option.


This Forum is LOADED with Goldies that have been rescued, members who work with Golden Rescues, and many good hearted individuals who've put together transports to get the perfect Goldie to it's forever home.


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## Angelina (Aug 11, 2011)

> Any health guarantee before the dog is 24 months is not worth the paper it is written on, IMO. I would expect to pay between $1,200-$1,800, and anything less than $1,000 and more than $2,000 would make me a little suspicious. Your initial puppy purchase price may be a little higher, but you will make it up in vet bills over the years!


I don't agree with this at all. I've had many, many dogs thru out my life that were all rescues and none of them had major health issues. Paying money for a dog does not guarantee it will be healthy. How many breeders reveal how many of their dogs end up with cancer in their lives?


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## Angelina (Aug 11, 2011)

> My husband says, why don't we just adopt a needy mixed golden puppy from a shelter or rescue society for $150-300 at some point? This is certainly a possibility. But we have small children and I am most concerned about adopting a healthy pet with an excellent disposition.


Both of my current goldens are rescues. The key if finding a good rescue who will match the energy level and background of the dog with your family. I adopted between 1 - 2 years of age...it leaves the puppy-poop years to someone else! Definately look into rescue, you may be pleasantly surprised!


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

Angelina said:


> I don't agree with this at all. I've had many, many dogs thru out my life that were all rescues and none of them had major health issues. Paying money for a dog does not guarantee it will be healthy. How many breeders reveal how many of their dogs end up with cancer in their lives?


I think she means that you have a better chance of getting a healthy dog if you see all the paperwork, clearances, etc. I agree with you, rescues are AWESOME! I have one. And I hope to rescue a golden in a few years. 

Any great breeder is still going to have cancer in their dogs. Its just a fact of life. Its way too hard to breed cancer out because most dogs get it when they are older and already bred. I look for longevity rather than "cancer statistics." Thats much more important and a better indication of health, IMO. 

My mutt has cancer. She's 13. Its generally a disease of age. The older the cells are, the more likely there will be flaws in replication resulting in cancer. A lot has to do with environmental factors. Its no simple dominant.recessive thing. I expect that my golden will probably die from cancer eventually, at the end of a long life. So if you don't want to have to worry about your dog getting cancer, don't get a dog, especially a golden.


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## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

DNA testing is required from the AKC for dogs that produce 5 or more litter. Many breeders will just send it in for all their breeding dogs.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Sunkota
Cathy Story
Fairfax Station, VA USA 22039 
[email protected]
Sunkota Golden Retrievers 

Eldorado Golden Retrievers
Chris Browning
Richmond, VA USA 
[email protected]
Eldorado Goldens 
804-556-6344


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

MGMF said:


> DNA testing is required from the AKC for dogs that produce 5 or more litter. Many breeders will just send it in for all their breeding dogs.


Thanks! I didn't know that. Are they testing it for something specific? Or are they just making sure the dog is who he says he is?


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## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

For Identification purpose.


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## Angelina (Aug 11, 2011)

@MLOPEZ


> My mutt has cancer. She's 13. Its generally a disease of age.


I am very sorry to hear that and yes, I agree it is generally a disease of age but...I keep reading about these 4 and 5 year olds with it (one today). Those are the ones I think should really be kept track of....

I hope your dog enjoys the rest of its days with you and that you have many of them!


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## goldprof (Oct 12, 2011)

Just curious: Has anyone heard of Breezewood Kennel in VA or Ivy West Farm in VA? 

I contacted the Potomac Valley Golden Retriever Club yesterday and was sent an information packet about the importance of health clearances, etc. This was very useful. They also sent me the names of several breeders who have been fully cleared by the PVGRC as well as Golden rescue society info. I think I will take it slow and contact as many breeders as possible before making a decision. I'll also seriously consider adopting on older Golden that needs a good home. Apparently this process takes months. 

Thanks, again, everyone!


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## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

Don't know them others may know. Do they have a website? Send the AKC name of the parents in question so they can be researched. As far as cleared by the PVGRC I would hope they would only list breeders who follow the GRCA requirements. Club referrels still need to be researched for every breeding they do. I love my fellow clubs but many list puppy referrals because they have the number one requirement....they are a member.


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## goldprof (Oct 12, 2011)

Thank you. They only refer people to breeders who have submitted copies of all health clearances to the club.

I've also looked into Eldorado Goldens and Delmarva, both of which have come highly recommended here and elsewhere. But it seems like Eldorado primarily breeds show dogs and so I would imagine these dogs are quite pricey!


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## luvbuzz (Oct 27, 2010)

You are doing the right thing by looking into various breeders. This forum has many experts...listen to the advice.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

goldprof said:


> Thank you. They only refer people to breeders who have submitted copies of all health clearances to the club.
> 
> I've also looked into Eldorado Goldens and Delmarva, both of which have come highly recommended here and elsewhere. But it seems like Eldorado primarily breeds show dogs and so I would imagine these dogs are quite pricey!



Most litters will have "pet puppies." Not all the pups will make the cut of being a show dog, which has pretty strict requirements. You WANT a breeder who has a specific purpose (in this case, show dogs) for breeding dog x to dog y. Pet pups are sometimes (but not always) priced lower than those going to potential show homes.


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## goldprof (Oct 12, 2011)

Ah, thank you again. This forum is incredibly informative and much more helpful than most generic Golden Retriever books/articles. The books have helped me to understand the breed, and determine that a Golden would be a great fit for my family, but they're not necessarily enlightening in terms of the actual nuts and bolts of acquiring a golden. I now realize the whole process takes time and patience and lots of research. 

*I'm very grateful to everyone who responded to my original and subsequent posts.


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## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

goldprof said:


> Thank you. They only refer people to breeders who have submitted copies of all health clearances to the club.
> 
> I've also looked into Eldorado Goldens and Delmarva, both of which have come highly recommended here and elsewhere. But it seems like Eldorado primarily breeds show dogs and so I would imagine these dogs are quite pricey!


 
Both these breeder have a very good reputation. Do not look past a breeder who only breeds show dogs. Just because a litter is breed with the intention of finding a show dog doesn't mean they are not pets. I would like that they work hard to try to perfect the perfect dog within the standard. You may be very suprised about the price. The reality that two show dogs would produce only show dogs is very low.


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## sconner (Apr 17, 2014)

I would appreciate suggestions of breeders near central Virginia, but I am willing to fly if necessary. I am writing this in April, 2014 and trying to compile a current list of reputable breeders. Thanks!


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