# Very serious dog fight between housemates.



## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

First, welcome to the forum. I'm sorry this is what brought you here, but glad you found us as there are so many nice, knowledgable folks here.

I'm really glad your girl is going to be okay. You must have been terrified. 

We used to have serious dominance issues with our girls (lab and jrt x) but we've successfully gotten them under control, for the most part. What I did was started treating them like dogs. No one is allowed on the furniture/beds anymore. The girls are both crated at night, every night--even though they are 10 and 6 yrs old. I feed in order of age (jrt, golden, then the lab). But even 5 years later, they still have occasional tiffs. Nothing quite as bad as what you described though.  

I really don't know if this is a dominance thing with yours though. Mine got so bad the lab jumped on our bed and peed because the Jrt had been up there, laying, for example.

It could've been too rough of play and when the little one jumped, the golden decided she wasn't taking that crap--and her size alone is pure advantage. 

I think you're doing the best thing by bringing in a behaviorist to help you. And in the meantime, do not leave them unsupervised, for even a minute. Crates if you can't watch them or if they need to settle. 

Best of luck to you, please keep us posted.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

I am so sorry you are having to deal with this frightening situation. I really don't have any suggestions but hope you are able to resolve the problem. There is a yahoo group called AGBEH (for aggressive behavior in dogs) that you might find helpful. I received many good suggestions from that group for a different type of dog aggression issue I was dealing with.
One of my favorite trainers who is great with dog behavior issues, Shirley Chong, sometimes responds to concerns and questions on that group.

I hope you are able to sort this out. Wishing you the best...


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

I had a friend who had a somewhat similar experience. In their situation 2 dogs that had lived happily together for about 7 years got into a pretty bad fight out of the blue. In that case they saw what happened. They had a new (9mo) baby that was being fed. When the baby was done mom put the high chair tray on the floor (she'd done this many times before). All 4 of our dogs used to be able to eat out of each others bowl so this wasn't unusual. As far as she could tell what happened is dog A went in at the same time as dog B and dog B got a tooth caught on dog A collar and got the tooth pulled up at a right angle-pain! Fight ensued. She was able to break it up before it got anywhere close to what you had, but it was pretty bad. The dog with the tooth had to stay at the vet for some time and when she came home it was like nothing had happened. They never had another fight.
I don't know that it will be similar with you, but it sounds like these dogs were on good terms in the past and something escalated it this time. I think it's a good idea to see a behaviorist.
My guess is he's being so good because he knows he did wrong and is trying to make up for it


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Jennifer1 said:


> My guess is he's being so good because he knows he did wrong and is trying to make up for it


ummmm no ...he may be easier to handle because his blood chemistry is out of whack cause of the adrenaline AND he is confused about what happened and where his housemate is... he doesn't know that what he did is wrong... he just knows that the feelings in the house is not right... he may not be aware of why... 

We have had dog fights here... serious dog fights... it is what happens in multi dog households at times... I am glad you have a trainer coming. My guess is that your other dachshund the one that ignored the situation was very aware of what was happening but didnt know how or couldn't deal and thus shut down. It is very scary to have your family and pack in an uproar like that. You may or may not be able to trust these dogs alone again. It took years before I let Shalva out wiht Bing after the fight... he also had her by the neck and she ended up needing 20 staples and had a MRSA infection afterwards... it took ages and now years later she is still reactive towards him. If he bumps her or pushes her she will react aggressively toward him ... she is still afraid. 

I think that the trainer is the best one to come and see... and watch the dogs interact but this could be a long term fix and one that never quite goes away... and remember just because the dachshund got the worst doesn't mean the golden started the fight.. it just meant that the golden got the upper hand...


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## dachsie (Feb 8, 2011)

Well, the dachshund (Eileen) is back in the hospital for the weekend. She developed an infection and her wounds came apart, just as the vet thought they might. Her injuries were very severe. Several muscles were severed completely and the bites went all the way to the bone. There is still the possibility that she won't make it, although the vet thinks she has a good chance. My husband is particularly torn up about this. The golden (Gracie) is "his" dog and he says he doesn't know if he can ever forgive her, especially if Eileen dies. At this point, I can still see the same sweet, loving dog in Gracie and I put a lot of the blame on myself for what happened, but if I lose Eileen, I may feel differently too. Eileen is the dog I would clone if I could. She's that special.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

I am so sorry to hear that Eileen is not doing well. You must be so conflicted about this situation. I am not sure how I would handle this as trusting a dog, who had no apparent bite inhibition and inflicted such harm, would be very difficult.
Sending healing thoughts to Eileen and strength and wisdom to you and your husband.


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## FeatherRiverSam (Aug 7, 2009)

I'm so sorry to hear Eileen is back in the hospital...hopefully she'll pull through! You've certainly got a tough situation on your hands through no fault of your own. The trainer / behaviorist is definately where I'd start as well.

My thoughts are with you...

Pete


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Am I correct in thinking that the young dog is somewhere between 18 months and 2 years old? If so, she is reaching social maturity a point at which their mature temperament starts to show and aggression if it is there really becomes a problem. I would be concerned that she injured the Dachshund so seriously, it doesn't seem like just a tiff. The worst fights in dogs occur between females because it is less of the "I will make you cry 'Uncle'" fights of males and more of the "You are my mortal enemy and I am going to kill you" fight.

For right now I would keep the Golden mix away from both the Dachshunds, do not trust her with either of them. You very well may have to always manage the situation, do a "crate and rotate."

I am sorry you are going through this.


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## Puzzleface (Jan 1, 2012)

I also think it best to keep the dogs separate for now. Please be very, very careful in choosing the professional to come and assist you. Remember there are no rules regulating the dog training industry and anyone can call them a "behaviorist" whether they have a PhD in animal behavior or whether they've just watched some tv shows on dogs. Aggression can easily be made worse by confrontational and physical training methods so again, PLEASE be cautious. Because of the severity of your dachshund's wounds, it may be the case that you are advised to keep your dogs separate. I know this may sound awful, but trust me, many people keep dogs separate from each other either completely or partially and dogs can live very happy fulfilled lives this way. 

Here is a link that I strongly encourage you to have a look at which may help with your evaluation of your trainer.

How to Choose a Dog Trainer

Good luck, inter-household dog aggression can be scary but it can also be very manageable.


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## mmacleod75 (Apr 7, 2012)

I am so sorry to hear about your situation. I'm praying Eileen makes a full and speedy recovery. A few months ago I was in a similar dilema when my then 6 month old Golden grabbed my 12 year old yorkie by the neck. I was feeding the Golden, who would get into a very excited state come feeding time. It is something we had been working on and out trainer suggested trying feeding puzzles/kong to slow her down a bit so she didn't inhale her food plus the puzzles make her work for her food. Anyways, I just set her Kong full of kibble down and she was rolling it around and the yorkie went to grab a morsel that rolled her way. I was there but had my back to them as I was putting the lid back on the food container and right about to turn around and grab the little dog as I always let the Golden eat in peace...Best I can put together is little dog went to get a piece off kibble and Keltey (the Golden) went for it at same time. Abby (yorkie) can be a bit bossy so I don't know if she made a little snap at Keltey or what ... it all happened so fast. I was putting the lid on container and as I was starting to turn I heard growling and Keltey had Abby by the back of the neck. I immediately hollered (my first instinct) and grabbed Keltey's collar. She let go of Abby right away and I pushed her out of the room and closed the door to keep her away. Abby had went into shock and was laying there with her tongue hanging out. She had a glazed look in her eyes I was sure she was going to pass in my arms. She has heart issues and a collapsing trachea so she has her share of medical issues to begin with. When I picked her up I noticed blood on my shirt and realized she was bleeding at the neck. I threw her in the car and flew to our vet - luckily only a few miles away. Ran in with Abby in my arms frantic...they know us there and said come right through. They stabiled Abby with oxygen and she came around. They did xrays to see how bad. Turned out it was just punctured through first few layers of skin but hadn't punctured chest cavity which was our concern. They cleaned the wound and we had her on antibiotics and pain meds for a week. I was beside myself as Abby is my hubby and I's baby. We had her since puppy and have not been able to have kids  She was our baby all this time and after a few days when I knew my Abby was feeling better I was sitting on the couch and just broke down. I think I almsot was having a bit of post traumatic stress...I had that horrible image of Abby in my mind. I was scared if it could happen again. After talking it through and having a good cry I felt better to move on. We always separate them if Keltey is eating. I also noticed after this incident Keltey behaved so much better with her food. She is so calm and relaxed now. Lays down before we feed her, doesn't inhale it. Better body language...that said, I'll never trust Abby near her when she's eating...not worth the risk. I am more aware of them and they are rarely both out of my sight at the same time...luckily no more incidents and my little Abby just turned 13 last week  It's something I know I will always have on my mind though and be very careful not to have any sort of 'triggers' such as treats/food without careful supervision. It is very scary and I understand how you're feeling. You don't want to give up on the new, young dog...but your older dog has been in your family longer and you have that much more of an emotional connection. It may never happen again, but it's great you have a trainer and I agree you may always have to manage the situation, not leave them alone unattended if need be. I have a baby gate I put up to keep them separate if I'm outside of not here...it's a bit of a pain in the neck to always do that, but it's peace of mind for us. Sorry so long, but know you're not alone and I wish you all the best for your pups


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## Suni52 (Jan 18, 2012)

I don't have any advice for you, I just wanted to say my prayers are with your family and Eileen.


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## GinnyinPA (Oct 31, 2010)

One thought I had reading your post - you said it had been a few weeks with no exercise for your golden. No matter how hot it is, you need to find a way for your dog to get real exercise - whether it's walking early in the morning or late in the evening, or going someplace where it can get wet frequently or go for a swim, or playing ball in the basement. Large dogs really need the release of energy they get from exercise.


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## mmacleod75 (Apr 7, 2012)

Just wondering how Eileen is doing? 
Praying all is well.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

mmacleod75 said:


> Just wondering how Eileen is doing?
> Praying all is well.


Me too.... I'm so sorry you're going through this.

I second the comments of two previous posters. 1) Finding a way to make sure the golden receives early morning exercise before the heat kicks in is so important. A couple weeks with very little physical outlet will certainly cause issues. (Not saying it caused this incident, just that she needs the outlet.) 2) I hope your behaviorist is a certified veterinary behaviorist or comes with a recommendation from your vet or someone whose opinion you really trust. NC State has a couple good ones, I've used Dr. Flannigan and I was very pleased with him.

I hope Eileen is improving... please let us hear.


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## khrios (May 5, 2010)

I can offer no advice, but know that you, your puppies, and your family are in my prayers.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

This whole thread has made me maybe reconsider the sex of my next dog. I have one of each but Lucy can be a real brat. Chance is the model dog of mellowness. I had always thought that my next dog would be a female, but now I'm thinking it should be a male. I know that two females fighting is the worst. And they never forget. 

I really hope that Eileen, poor little baby, pulls through. I don't think that you will ever be able to leave them together alone again and will have to be right there whenever they're in the same space with each other. What a difficult situation to be in.


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## dachsie (Feb 8, 2011)

Thank you everyone for your concern for Eileen. The vet reports that her fever is gone and her wounds look healthier. They opened everything back up and cleaned it out and are keeping them open with bandaging for now. The surgeon will evaluate her tomorrow morning. They may use a vacuum or do more surgery, or just continue with bandage changes. The worst wound was still a concern she said. Better than yesterday though. 
Yes, that is one of the reasons I'm blaming myself so much for this - the fact that Gracie hadn't been for her normal walks. But she seemed very bothered by the record heat we'd been having even in the early morning. The air was just so thick and miserable with the humidity added in. We don't have a basement and she's afraid of water, so I was letting her just run around the house, but I shouldn't have had them all in together while she was so wound up. I just didn't think something like this would happen since they had always played together so happily. It's difficult to reconcile the savagery I witnessed with the extreme sweetness she shows towards us and every other human she meets. 
The person I called is not a certified behaviorist, but he was highly recommended by the vet who is treating Eileen. She said she had two dogs that fought and he had been a lot of help to her. But if I don't get a good feeling from him when we have the first consultation, I'll look for someone else. I think we really probably just need to keep them separated anyway. It would be easy to do if it were just keeping Gracie and Eileen separate. I can easily rotate them in and out of the house. The difficulty will be with the older dachshund (Livy). She really doesn't much like to be in the house. She's an odd little dog and really prefers to just do her own thing out in the yard, so having to keep her in the house while Gracie is out is not fun. But how can I know whether she will turn on Livy next? She may never, but then again, she may. Even now, Gracie acts like she is dying to go out and be with Livy, but I just can't trust her. I wish I had seen what started the fight.
Oh, and yes Gracie is 20 months old.


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## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

Glad to hear Eileen is doing a little better--but I'm so sorry she is back in the hospital. I think you are right on in not trusting Gracie with either of the Dachsunds....I just couldn't/wouldn't take that risk. Hopefully the behaviorist will be able to help her and you all. Hang in there and please keep us posted.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Any update? Hope your girl is home and doing better.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Hope Eileen heals OK. So sorry to hear.


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## dachsie (Feb 8, 2011)

Eileen is healing well now. The worst wounds on her neck have healed up and the sutures have now been removed. She does still have a couple of open wounds on her back that we are bandaging. They were the result of an abscess that developed from a puncture wound that went undetected in the beginning. Her microchip actually fell out of one of them! Took me a minute to realize what it was. We took her on vacation with us since we couldn't put her in a kennel in her condition. She has seen Gracie through the fence and they both act like nothing happened. 
We still have the trainer coming this weekend, but my husband is leaning towards trying to find Gracie a new home where she is the only dog. He's having difficulty feeling the love for her after this incident and is worried that a mistake will be made and she'll gain access to the other dogs with tragic consequences. I'm not quite on board with that idea, since I do still love her, plus I'm not sure who would want to take on a dog that almost killed her housemate. Although she is a fabulous dog in all other respects. Then again, I know I would never forgive myself if she hurts Eileen or Livy again. I'm torn. Our teenage daughter is adamantly opposed to the idea. But she doesn't get to make the final decision.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

You CAN have multiple dogs and no fighting. In twenty two years of owning multiple dogs, almost exclusively Goldens, the only fight I have had was over a food bowl. Knowing what triggered it I can prevent it. Once dogs start to fight in a household, it can be very difficult to overcome.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I would be nervous in your situation due to the degree of fighting and injury. You might want to place your new girl. Five years ago, I sold a golden pup to someone with male intact Norwich terrier, a female intact Norwich terrier, and a neutered male golden. By the time my female golden pup was eight months old, the female Norwich wanted to eat her. I offered to take her back and return the money. No go. Then 1.5 years later when someone left a gate open, they tried to kill each other. The owner almost Had his finger bitten off..


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Duplicate post.


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## dachsie (Feb 8, 2011)

If I had a good breeder to return her to, the decision might be easier. But she came from a kill shelter and I'm not taking her back there. She really is a wonderful dog except for this. I feel a responsibility to her but also a responsibility to keep the little ones safe. It's just a really hard position for me to be in. If she seemed bent on going after them it would be different too. But I don't see that as the case. It seems more of a situational/trigger thing rather than a pure "I hate you and I'm going to kill you" thing.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Would you consider a rescue? You could potentially even foster her (depending on the rules of the rescue) until she is adopted. I wouldn't want to live with the stress wondering what is going to set her off and heave forbid she gets a hold of your other dogs...it only takes a second.


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## dachsie (Feb 8, 2011)

Do rescues take dogs with her history? I thought they wouldn't take dogs with a history of aggression. Or does that only apply to human aggression?


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

SheetsSM said:


> Would you consider a rescue? You could potentially even foster her (depending on the rules of the rescue) until she is adopted. I wouldn't want to live with the stress wondering what is going to set her off and heave forbid she gets a hold of your other dogs...it only takes a second.


 I think this is a great idea. I have seen dogs listed before lots of places where they specify that the dog needs to be an "only dog." I absolutely wouldn't be able to live with a dog I couldn't trust, no matter how much I loved her. The anxiety would run through the atmosphere and it would be too much.


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## dachsie (Feb 8, 2011)

Well, the trainer agreed with my husband (along with the vet and many others), that the best thing for everyone is to find Gracie a new home. The trainer actually works with the Golden rescue in the area and suggested we contact them. After much discussion and many tears, we called. They are looking for a foster home now. This is one of the hardest things I've ever had to do and it goes against everything I've always believed in regarding my dogs being "for life", but after reviewing all of our alternatives it did seem best for the dogs. The trainer liked Gracie and doesn't think she needs to be an only dog necessarily, just needs to live with the right dog. I'm not sure about that, but maybe a non-reactive, polite male her own size would work out ok. Definitely not another female five times smaller than she is. 
I never thought I would ever surrender a dog to rescue, but in this case, I'm more comfortable with more experienced people determining just the right home for her.


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## GoldenMum (Mar 15, 2010)

I feel your pain, I was also devastated when I had to rehome my Hobbes. Calvin and Hobbes were littermates, and began squabbling at about 5 months old. I tried everything I could think of, and felt I was walking on egg shells, waiting for the next episode to happen. I realized one of them had to be placed after two years of occasional fights (drawing blood fights). I was lucky that my BIL had fallen in love with Hobbes. He has been with him about 6 months now, and has two sisters he does great with. I think your girl would do fine with the right pack. Keep us posted!


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

I think you are doing the right thing for her and your other dogs. Usually the right road is the hardest to take - so kudos to you.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

IMO- It is best for Gracie the golden to be rehomed. If she attacked the doxie it could be one of your kids next or she could kill the doxie next.

We have a family friend who's lab attacked their poodle for no reason one day. They have been together for several years. She also has a GSD. She spend several thousand dollars putting the poodle back together. Everyone told her the lab needed to go including trainers and a behaviorist as well as the breeder. She did not want to face the facts. She keep the poodle in a playpen while it was recovering and the lab crated. Either the door of the crate was not properly closed or the dog broke out. Long story short she got home from work and the lab had killed the poodle tearing into pieces and the GSD was injured as well.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

MikaTallulah said:


> If she attacked the doxie it could be one of your kids next...


Dog aggression _does not_ equal human aggression. There are a ton of dogs that are DA but are perfectly fine with people, kids included. 

I would hate to see her limited in her placement opportunities if this concern was mentioned.


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## dachsie (Feb 8, 2011)

I agree kwhit. Gracie has shown no sign of human aggression EVER. I have no thought that she would attack a person. And neither did the trainer think that she would. It is not the same thing at all. If I thought she would attack a child like that I would have her euthanized.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

kwhit said:


> Dog aggression _does not_ equal human aggression. There are a ton of dogs that are DA but are perfectly fine with people, kids included.
> 
> I would hate to see her limited in her placement opportunities if this concern was mentioned.


I was thinking child goes between the 2 to protect the doxie. Sorry for the confusion.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

dachsie said:


> I never thought I would ever surrender a dog to rescue, but in this case, I'm more comfortable with more experienced people determining just the right home for her.


I can't tell you how much I admire you for seeing this through and choosing to do what's best for the dogs (and for you, I think) and go ahead and re-home her. What a blessing that the trainer is able to help and is a golden person. Funny how things have a way of working out.... I appreciate you letting us know how things went, I think it's a valuable learning experience for anyone who loves dogs and would like to have multiple dogs. Re-homing a dog to a loving, caring environment isn't a failure. I wish you all the best.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

You are doing the right thing, even though I know it is the hard thing.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Ironically, the girl I got back due to fighting with another dog, has done well for three years in her new home...


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

I am so sorry but I do feel the right decision is to rehome Gracie. If you find a rescue that will take a dog that has injured another dog so badly please make sure they are aware of her strengths as well as her history with other dogs.
Wishing you the best...


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Sally's Mom said:


> Ironically, the girl I got back due to fighting with another dog, has done well for three years in her new home...


I think there are certain dogs that another dog just might not like. We don't like everyone we meet, dogs are probably the same way. It's a disaster and a very sad situation when the two dogs happen to live together as in the OP's case where placing the Golden, IMO, was the absolute correct decision. 

Chance has the most easy going nature toward other animals in any dog I have ever known. He even watched a spider crawl all the way across our patio without ever touching it. But...there was my friend's Golden puppy, (male), that he went after twice. I know he wouldn't have hurt him, but he didn't want that puppy anywhere near him at all. For some reason this puppy rubbed him the wrong way. There were no toys or chews involved, just the puppy being close to him.

This is the same dog that let a maltese puppy, (1.5 lbs.), crawl all over him for the three days I was pet sitting him. And he was always great with all my customer's dogs, too. Never even a raised lip in all the years I took him to work with me. I'm talking about _hundreds_ of dogs that he's met.

So sometimes it's being aggressive to one dog that can get another dog labeled DA. Probably not in most circumstances, but you never know...


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## dachsie (Feb 8, 2011)

I thank you all for your support and advice. Gracie now belongs to Neuse River. It was the hardest thing I've ever done, leaving her there. Harder than euthanizing an old sick dog. Though my head knows it was the right thing to do, my heart still isn't convinced. Not one minute has gone by since we left her Friday morning that I haven't thought of her. I've cried like a little girl many times. I can't stop myself. 
But the stronger Eileen got, the more it was obvious that they could never have lived together. When we first brought her home from the hospital, Gracie seemed friendly towards her, just like before the fight. But the last week, she growled every time she saw Eileen. She just stared at her across the room and growled a low menacing sounding growl. I know if she could have she'd have gone after her. And one mistake in keeping them separated could have cost Eileen her life. And that mistake nearly happened last week. I was grooming Gracie behind a closed, but unlocked door and my daughter almost walked in with Eileen right on her heels. 
I know they will find her a good home and I know she will get "over" us. I know this, but it doesn't make it easy.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I volunteer with Neuse River and I can tell you that she's in good hands, I promise! I am sorry you had to go through this. I've had female on female aggression in my dogs in the past and it can be very, very bad.


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