# Puppy Aggression: Can we work through it?



## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

How old is this puppy now? 

Im not sure that neutering will be any type of cure...the ONLY thing neutering is CERTAIN of doing is the obvious...anything else is normally to do with training...he sounds very young...and very workable...please don't give up on him...hopefully someone on here will be able to refer you to a good behaviourist in your area...


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## JimS (Jan 2, 2007)

You need to contact another behaviourist. I think putting a ten week old pup down for aggression is ridiculous. A bit of tough love may be in order...but euthanasia...certainly not yet.


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## Goldenhandful (May 14, 2007)

He is 4 months old. The vet said that neutering would just help with the testosterone, but the obvious issues do need more help than that. 

It would KILL me to give him up since he's part of my family. At some point though, I have to be logical. I'm doing everything I can right now to work through this and I'm looking for success stories for hope!


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## HovawartMom (Aug 10, 2006)

Neutering him will certainly help but might not make the problem,disapear.
Training will make the difference and patience.
I would get a trainer,ASAP that specialize in behavior problems.
I would,also,use,at home,the NILIF technic which means that he has to work for anything he gets whether it's food,walk,attention or play.
I am happy to see you're ready to work with him and give him,a chance.
It will take time but with love and training,you will do it!.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I had a fear aggressive German Shepherd, I had called a few behaviorist/trainers, and they told me the same thing - without even looking at him.

I found actually two behaviorists that actually evaluated him and told me he could be trained - and he was 2 -3 years old then. The behaviorist did train him and he was awesome.

You just have to find someone that will work with you. At ten weeks, I think he is trainable.

My puppy was growling at 9 - 10 weeks, if I tried to take something out of his mouth, or if he was eating. To resolve that one, I fed him from my hand. I also had some mounting, but the past few weeks that has finally gone away. You need to show him who is boss.


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## Goldenhandful (May 14, 2007)

cubbysan said:


> I had a fear aggressive German Shepherd, I had called a few behaviorist/trainers, and they told me the same thing - without even looking at him.
> 
> I found actually two behaviorists that actually evaluated him and told me he could be trained - and he was 2 -3 years old then. The behaviorist did train him and he was awesome.
> 
> ...


That is music to my ears! I hear from "experts" what I need to do, and that was put him down/give him back to breeder to be put down. I love this little guy and to hear that it can work for someone else (and at 2-3 years old), that really does give me hope. 

And I've tried the feeding out of my hands b/c he growled at my husband when he went to put his hands in his dish. So I took the dish away for a week. He hasn't growled during meal time since the "hand" experiment".


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

At about 9 weeks Finny (lab not a golden) got really growly, barky and nippy when I was getting him accustomed to the grooming routine. I immediately put a slip lead on him, took him to the driveway and did basic training (sit-stay, heel, come) for at least 15 minutes. Then we went back to grooming and if he did it again, which he did, we went back to the driveway. It refocused his attention but it seemed to work. The reason we went to the driveway, not the backyard, was it is not a "play" place, it is a "work" place. My Abby (golden) is so sweet and cooperative, she wasn't necessarily putting him in his place, so I had to. 

Some of them just take longer, and take more direct supervision. Are you crate training? Are you making him wait before he eats? NILIF is a great suggestion, too. 

Puppyhood can just be an intense time, lots of work.

Hang in there and Good luck.


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

*Sorry!*

Sorry - I started my reply before your other post in new members (I hate it when work intrudes). I see you have been to puppy kindergarten and tried things I suggested. Good luck to you, I'd say try a different behaviorist.


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## Cloenmoe (May 14, 2007)

Your pup is only 4 months old, he is still very young and trainable! I have a pup in my class doing the samething right now (different breed) I would not recommend PTS as of yet.
Where did you go to puppy school at? Was it some place that had a guarntee that if you were not happy with the classes you could take them again? 
I am a trainer, and I personally would offer you the chance to go through the classes one more time free of charge. Or If he graduated the puppy classes, then enroll him in the next level. 

You need to find a behavorist in your area. Where are you located?
NILF was an excellent suggestion. Whe he is nipping at you get get some bitter apple and spray in his mouth, this has worked wonders for a student of mine. He was told to push on the tongue thing also, but it was only making matters worse. If he is biting clothes or something to that effect, as soon as he opens his mouth up far enough spray some bitter apple in there. Or you could just offer a treat and then give him something else to chew on instead of you. A bone, Kong etc. 
When he is chewing on something he should not have, instead of reaching down and taking it out of his mouth offer him something else. Hold a treat up to his nose to get him to drop it first of all, then give him a Kong filled with treats or a big ole knucle bone. Nylabone etc. 
In puppy classes they should have taught you how to do take it, drop it & leave it. 

The behavorist is correct on telling you to use treats, the treats are a reward for good behavior and is used as a lure to get them to do the correct behavior, you have to use them awhile so the dog learns to understand what the correct behavior is before you take the lure away. You moved to quickly by taking them immediately away. This is all part of postive training. Did you use treats in the puppy class?
As for the growling when you touch him. Get lots of treats ready sit on the floor with puppy, feed him the treats while you are doing cradle and massage with him. Rub his head, his ears down, all over his face, keep feeding treats as long as he is doing good. Rub down his sides, his chest, his legs, in between his toes, down his back, his belly, everywhere. This is to desensitize him to being touched. 


You talked about him going under the bed and you going in after him? Why did he go under in the first place? Did he do something wrong and you corrected him and he ran and hid? Was this recently or after you brought him home? The dog most likely reacted the way it did out of fear. And dogs can only react with a bite. 

A good book is A complete Idoits guide to Positve Training. Amazon.com: The Complete Idiot's Guide to Positive Dog Training, 2nd Edition (Complete Idiot's Guide to): Books: Pamela Dennison

Good luck to you. I think you will make it through it. You sound like a wonderful owner willing to put in the time and effort.


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## Goldenhandful (May 14, 2007)

We took our dog to PetCo for training. Unfortunately the class was not what we needed. I will say, my dog is smart, too smart for his own good. The commands that he needed to learn for class he already knew before training began so the instructor would use him as the example. But for the first 20-25 minutes we would do puppy socialization. We all kind of stood around while my dog pummled the other 3 tiny dogs. Then we'd do some class stuff and then puppy socialization again for about 10-15 minutes. Overall, the other owners and us weren't thrilled with the outcome, especially since the instructors kept changing and never knew what we should be focusing on. Bottom line: if you have a good trainer, you'll benefit no matter where your class is. We didn't want to repeat at Petco since it would be the same trainers. So we're signed up at a class through a recommendation of my vet.

As for Barkley going under the bed, he goes under there to play with the box spring, bed skirt and cords behind the night stand, never after I discipline him. I now leave him on a leash in the house so I can pull him out when I can't get to him. I'll try the treats when I'm holding him and petting him, though getting ready to pick him up. Hopefully that will help with the picking up more! Thanks for the tip!!! 

I found when I would use treats to get him to stop biting my clothes, jumping on me, etc. it would encourage the bad behavior. He knew if he did it, he'd get his treat.


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

Now I know you are getting tons of different things to try so I am going to tell you about my experience. Our Jake, we got him at 8 weeks, was VERY DOMINATE. He thought he was top dog in our home. He did all the things you have described. We did puppy classes, intermediate classes,private classes. He would have been put down and stuffed with most people but I LOVED him. SOOOO the best things that worked for me(he was much better with my husband) were positive training techniques. He resented the choked type collars. I did the hand feeding a little at a time and over time that worked really well. My best discipline was time out. When he got too rough or aggressive we would isolate him(NOT IN HIS CRATE) for a short period and ignore him. He wanted attention so we withdrew it. We had him neutered which helped some but not completely. As he got older he got much better. I was always watchful of him around others but we never had any problems. He became a pure love and snuggle boy and lived to 10 years. Being consistent with every thing was very important. He knew exactly what was coming as a consequence. Good luck! :crossfing


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## GoldenDevil (Mar 23, 2007)

My 18 week still bites our hands and arms, but she is teething really bad - her adult teeth are coming through. I always have lots of toys and chews for her, and if she gets bad with our hands and arms, we shove something else of hers in her mouth. Right from the start, when she would eat I would get down on the floor and touch her food, put my face in her face, take her food, etc., and she accepts it all. I periodically repeat all this, especially if she has a chew toy and she is really into. I don't want her to protect anything at anytime. Crystal seems to growl when she is frustrated, and yes she talks back, but I still get my point across. I have tried to socialize her a few times with other dogs at dog parks. If big dogs come running toward her, she will submit immediately, but once she gets a little confident, she will bark and growl in their face, and try to nip them. She will run along side other dogs, and try to initiate play, but will always growl, bark and nip. At home she does nothing but bark, growl and nip at the cat, it is an endless stand-off. I am hoping that once all her adult teeth come through, the biting will ease off.


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## Rachel's Mom (Feb 26, 2007)

*when*

when rachel was young, she was very mouthy and very nippy, I can not tell you the times she nipped at me, and even ripped a couple pairs of my jeans....being nippy but I just kept at it, with the help of the people on the forum, by telling her no, off, yelping, etc. and she is finally settling down, she will get mouthy once in a while if she gets worked up playing with the person I live with but all I have to do is tell her off, or no, and she will settle down...just keep working at it...it will pass...


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Brady at 5 months is still chewing on my hands and the kids, but it doesn't hurt anymore with his adult teeth. I also notice when he does this, he is usually ready for bed. Yes, he has ripped holes in my jeans and quite a few of my kids stuff, that is winding down now.

I had a shepherd puppy that would do that to me, and we bought him another puppy. The best thing we could have done. He played rough with him, and no longer with me. 

I don't think growling is always an act of aggression. I have had dogs growl during playtime with me. It is more like a "play growl". Sometimes they growl when they get the "zoomies".


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

my neighbor had a golden that was VERY nippy and acutally liked all the bitter apple, dog repelent stuff.....so his vet told him to try binaca...you know the breath spray?? just spray a little either near his nose, or in his mouth (DONT GET IT IN THE EYES)...the vet said shed never met a dog that liked binaca....try that maybe??


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

Keep at it. You'll find something that works. Anyone that suggests a puppy can't be trained (and should be put down) is really being foolish. Listen to the breeder. You need to be really firm, and don't be afraid to yell. Your puppy will respect you when you show him who the boss is (IMHO).


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Goldenhandful said:


> We took our dog to PetCo for training. Unfortunately the class was not what we needed. I will say, my dog is smart, too smart for his own good. The commands that he needed to learn for class he already knew before training began so the instructor would use him as the example. But for the first 20-25 minutes we would do puppy socialization. We all kind of stood around while my dog pummled the other 3 tiny dogs. Then we'd do some class stuff and then puppy socialization again for about 10-15 minutes. Overall, the other owners and us weren't thrilled with the outcome, especially since the instructors kept changing and never knew what we should be focusing on. Bottom line: if you have a good trainer, you'll benefit no matter where your class is. We didn't want to repeat at Petco since it would be the same trainers. So we're signed up at a class through a recommendation of my vet.
> 
> As for Barkley going under the bed, he goes under there to play with the box spring, bed skirt and cords behind the night stand, never after I discipline him. I now leave him on a leash in the house so I can pull him out when I can't get to him. I'll try the treats when I'm holding him and petting him, though getting ready to pick him up. Hopefully that will help with the picking up more! Thanks for the tip!!!
> 
> I found when I would use treats to get him to stop biting my clothes, jumping on me, etc. it would encourage the bad behavior. He knew if he did it, he'd get his treat.


I hope you don't take offense to me saying this, but I would get a referral for a behaviorist/trainer from your vet. I think your dog's situation requires a very experienced trainer, and I'm not sure Petco can provide that.

Your dog's existence in your home in the future is dependent on the problem getting dealt with properly. If it were me, I'd get a few referrals and then speak to each trainer over the phone to get an idea what their methods are, what their experience is, etc.


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## Goldenhandful (May 14, 2007)

Thank you to everyone for ALL of the advice! I have been able to utilize a lot of it and some of it we had already been using, as I had said in previous posts. Wow! What a change since the last few weeks. My puppy is like a whole new dog!!! Yes, he had some MAJOR dominance issues, and would growl, show his teeth when we'd go to pick him up (subsequently bit my husband and drew blood) and not having had a puppy in years and years we turned to "the experts" about the aggression - a Vet and a Golden Rescue for advice on behavior issues. Both said he needs to be put down because he bit, broke the skin when we were trying to pick him up . THANK GOD WE DIDN'T LISTEN! 

Our own vet saw him, showed us how to get him in line, we used some of the suggestions here and we have truly a different dog!!!!!! I wish you could see the transformation. He got neutered last week is doing really well and so our confidence is where it should be. Our 4-month old puppy is normal (play biting, talk growling, chewing - no longer aggressive growling or snapping to bite us) and I can't tell you how relieved I really am!!!!!!! So thank you again, everyone!!


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I am so happy. Sometimes the "experts" do not know the whole picture.


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## rusty02 (Jun 14, 2007)

Hi my 2 yr old golden (rusty) reminds me of your dog.... he has growled at both my husband and I some times when he doesn't get his way, but has never bitten us. He plays rough.... The worse thing is when he's inside our car and someone approaches the car he'll snap. Barking, growling. If that person reaches for him I think he would bite. He's very protective of his properties, such as the car, or our house....


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## KatzNK9 (Feb 27, 2007)

It is awesome to hear that you've made so much progress so quickly! Wonderful news. I'm just sorry I missed this thread earlier to respond. If you ever happen to be in the company of someone who even remotely insinuates a 4 month old pup should be PTS for aggression issues, RUN, don't walk away. They're incompetent & looney!

Petco/Petsmart training classes are notorious for having bad trainers. I'd advise you find a good all-breed obedience club in your area & attend classes with them. It sounds like you've got yourself a great dog just waiting for all the right training methods. Congrats on your success so far & keep up the good work.


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