# Do you think GSDs are mean/untrustworthy?



## AquaClaraCanines

Curious what the Golden owning and (mostly) non-GSD owning dog forum population thinks about Shepherds. They are often lumped with pit bulls as aggressive dogs, bad with kids, etc. Would love to hear thoughts, experiences, and whether you think GSDs are untrustworthy pets.

Poll included


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## AquaClaraCanines

I think they are wonderful, sweet babies, and I love them! Loyalty second to none! Very one person, devoted, intelligent dog. However, I have seen many nervous, insane American show lines ones, so it would only be on a case by case basis that I would consider one of those lines. I would always select working lines and German lines, and preferably long haired (just because they seem even more cushy! Maybe because they are soft and cuddly  )


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## esSJay

I haven't met a ton of them in my lifetime but the majority of the ones that I have met are really sweet. I think they are beautiful looking dogs. As with any breed though, part of the temperament comes from the way they were trained by their owners or bred by their breeders.


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## Daisybones

I love them. My best friends mom had one who was so sweet and would protect me to the death if she had to.


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## Debles

I love GSD's , have had two in my life (as a child) and would love to have one again but don't think I still have the energy. I think they require more exercise than goldens.

There is an excellent breeder in western Nebraska who has excellent German lines and what I think so far is a great breeding program. I haven't looked into them thoroughly as I don't know if it will ever happen. I just dream. But their dogs are gorgeous wonderful family dogs, with wonderful stories from their "families". : )


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## jlc's mom

We have a half gsd/husky and he is a sweety and the biggest whimp that you have ever seen


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## AquaClaraCanines

My puppy is SO mellow. He is a lot less active than my Goldens (except for Brooklyn).


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## Pointgold

I had GSD's. I've never heard them lumped in with Pit Bulls. I'm surprised that you would make a blanket statement about "insane, American show lines." Frankly, the Germans don't export their best dogs to the US, which is true of most foreign breeders of nearly any breed.
I love the breed, but am not naive to their idiosyncracies and would not recommend them for everyone.


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## jwemt81

We have had our GSD since she was 8 weeks old (she's almost 11) and she has never shown one ounce of aggression towards anyone. She has had a lot of training from a young age, so that has a lot to do with it, but they are a very loyal and loving breed when raised properly. They're not the dog for everyone and I would never recommend the breed to an inexperienced or frist-time dog owner because they are a huge handful and require an enormous amount of training. I always feel very safe with Kodi around!

This is our Kodiak:


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## AquaClaraCanines

Well of course you wouldn't like anything I had to say about any topic. I have seen MANY nerve-bag Am-lines dogs, and some nerve-bag West German Show Lines dogs too. I am allowed to share MY observations, am I not?

They are often lumped with pit bulls in breed ban proposals, banned breeds for rental housing, etc.


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## AquaClaraCanines

AquaClaraCanines said:


> I have seen many nervous, insane American show lines ones, so it would only be on a case by case basis that I would consider one of those lines.


Not sure how that can be seen as a blanket statement that "all" Am-lines are nuts.


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## fostermom

I think that part of the "problem" with GSDs is that they *are* so family loyal. If they are not raised by someone who believes in super socializing them, then there can be some problems.

My mom's dog is a GSD mix (high mix) that I pulled from a shelter when he was a pup. He is extremely intelligent and overall well trained. But he has only had real socialization with my dogs and up until he was 6 month old he went to daycare. So he can get really snarky with other dogs. He has also snapped at my nephew (who was allowed to climb on him). I am not the least bit afraid of him (though he is 110 lbs giant) and if something were to happen to my parents, he would come live with us. He likes people, but he is also quite standoffish. He sleeps in the livingroom when he stays with us, while all of my dogs sleep in our bedroom. I realize that he is not the good will ambassador of the breed, but I have also been exposed to many GSDs througout my life and most of them have had a lot of very similar traits to Obi.

I guess I would say that I don't think a GSD is a good dog for a novice owner. I am positive that there are exceptions to the rule, just like not all goldens make a good first dog regardless of what people say.


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## Pointgold

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Not sure how that can be seen as a blanket statement that "all" Am-lines are nuts.


Pretty close. I didn't see the choice "Poorly bred German lines that are exported by Germans who don't want them in their gene pool so off them on American's or other foreign countries for big bucks".

*And, in previous discussions I have commented on the same detestable practice done by American breeders selling to Asia, etc etc...


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## Faith's mommy

sadly, i don't trust them. it's probably just the dogs i meet around here, but all of them are sketchy and nervous and just plain "off"


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## LilTuffGirl

My ex (who was a police officer) and I got a GSD from a breeder who bred and trained her pups for rescue, search, and attack dogs. She became very ill and had to get rid of the litter before she could train so we picked on up. We use to train with his officer buddy's attack dog and our fire department's search dog. She was a VERY smart dog and thankfully was VERY loyal to both of us.

My ex was slightly a moron who thought since I didn't have the bite sleeve on the dog wouldn't attack me when he gave her the que.... She ran right to me in full attack mode and grabed my arm but it looked like she realised who I was RIGHT before chomping down. She had a soft hold on my arm and let go and just started to wag her tail and look at me. I could have KILLED my **** ex that day but was VERY VERY glad the DOG was smarter than my ex.

ONE issue with the GSD was when she was a pup and in her teething stage she didn't understand how **** strong and sharp her bite was. She was trying to play with me and sunk her teeth right into my shoulder. That sucked. I know she didn't mean it in a mean way but from then on I had to limit rough play BIG TIME.

At least the golden has a very soft mouth. I always tell her no when she gets mouthy but i'm still glad it's a soft touch.


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## cubbysan

I really did not know how to answer your poll. I voted: 
_I'd only trust one of any lines that has proven himself to be reliable_ 

I have owned two GSD's.

One had bad fear agression, we worked it out with a behaviorists, but he did bite before that. He was excellent with his family and those who were not afraid of him. He was afraid of his own shadow. Not sure if we did not socialize him enough as a puppy or if it was just the way he was.

The other I rescued at 1 year, she had a lot of insecurities we had to deal with. She ended up being an excellent dog. Did not have to train her, she just knew English, she just always knew what I wanted from her.

Both dogs, even though they had issues, were very loyal, perpetual toddlers, and I know they would have risked their lives to protect us. I always felt safe, but I had to be very careful when I had guests.

If I were to get a GSD again, I would very much research the lines he came from, and make sure the lines were very stable. Plus I now know so much more about raising puppies.


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## cinnamonteal

I voted for only one who had proved himself reliable. As with any breed, I view them on a case by case basis. Maybe it's because I had a dog phobia as a child, but I try not to make assumptions about any dog. I've met some GSD's who are as sweet as honey and a couple who were just plain scary.


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## NuttinButGoldens

Any dog can be mean.

My Mom had a Lhaso Ahpso that was, bar none, the meanest dog I had ever met.

It bit her and sent her to the emergency room several times, and all she was doing was setting it's food down so it could eat!


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## MurphyTeller

I wouldn't lump them with pitbulls. For one Pits should never show aggression towards humans - even when provoked. Like any bushel of apples you have good ones and bad ones - but the bulk of my experience with GSDs as a breed is that you just never know what they're likely to do. If a rott or a pit intends to take a piece out of you - you know it - you can see it coming 500' away. GSDs don't seem to have that warning and seem to go from zero to aggressive without warning or any signs that they're going into a bad place. I've also seen more than my fair share of fear based reactivity in GSDs - more so than in any other breeds - even from lines and breeders that are supposed to be (and should be) stable and even in the hands of very experienced dog (and shepherd) owners. I think there's a trend right now that is putting way more "german lines" high drive dogs in homes that shouldn't have a dog - let alone a GSD.

Should they be banned? No. Should people do more research before buying a GSD? Yes - absolutely - any breed. Are there bad breeders out there really screwing up the breed? Yeah - and just as many golden breeders screwing up the breed too. Would I ever own a GSD or a GSD mix? Never. Would I cross the street to avoid one if I saw one walking with their owner on a sidewalk? Probably yes and especially if I had my dogs with me. And I've pulled my so-far qualifying dog from stays next to a GSD too.


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## LifeOfRiley

I think everyone knows how I feel about them.  They're incredible dogs and I can't imagine not having at least one in my life.

There are a few bad apples, though. That's how I voted. 
I completely agree with Fostermom, that part of the "problem" is that they _are_ so incredibly loyal. And fiercely protective. I think that makes them probably not the best choice for everyone. 

And I agree about the working lines versus show lines with regard to temperament. (I just agreed with someone else here today who had mentioned that.) From what I've seen and from everything I've learned, the working lines DO tend to be more stable. Not that there aren't wonderful show line GSDs. There are. But it seems that the working line breeders tend to focus more on temperament and are "better" all-around breeders from square one. The American/American show lines are far more common with the BYB, which (I think) is a huge part of the problem.


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## HovawartMom

I love GSD!.
They are beautiful,loving and intelligent!.
Would own one,in a heartbeat and absolutly love LH,GSD!.
If they come from a good breeder,they are amazing dogs but that's good for any breed!.
Titus'best buddy,is a GSD called Hammer and I could steal him!.
Sadly enough,her owner knows where I live!.


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## New Golden Mom

My parents raised German Shepherds for many many years when I was a kid (eons ago) and I love the breed as a whole. I think given their power and intelligence they are not for everyone, but in the right hands with training and love, a well bred GSD makes a wonderful pet. When our kids were younger we had a gorgeous male named Bear and he was a fantastic dog. He adored our three boys and when we took them all out for a walk, he herded them to make sure no one got away!


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## Loboto-Me

That's funny that GSDs are lumped into the same category as pitbulls (to me) because I have never heard of it.

Around my parts, and as I was growing up, we rarely heard of dangerous GSDs or agressive ones unless they are/were specifically trained to do that job. Police dogs (trained), guard dogs (trained). I see a GSD and I don't automatically think "danger", but if I see a Pitbull I first think "danger" until he shows me otherwise, and even then, because of all the stories about pitbulls, I may not give him a chance to prove himself. Yes, I'm very sorry to say I'm prejudiced... what I prefer saying is "I tend to learn from other people's mistakes."

So I voted for I think the second one? GSD's are great, and there are some bad apples like in every other breed (something like that LOL)


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## NuttinButGoldens

It depends on the owner more than the dog me thinks...

My Mom raised them when I was a kid. Never had a mean one.

Then again, my sister had her ear bitten off by someone else's when she was a young child.


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## Florabora22

Anyone know what's up with white german shepherds? My neighbor has 4 of them and I don't know if they're a genetic defect or if there is a whole different category for white german shepherds.

Beautiful dogs... when I see them - which is next to never.


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## Adriennelane

fostermom said:


> I think that part of the "problem" with GSDs is that they *are* so family loyal. If they are not raised by someone who believes in super socializing them, then there can be some problems.


I guess this is where I'm wary of them. My dog growing up was half lab/ half chow, and she was _very _single family loyal. I honestly don't think she could have lived with another family. I was just a kid, and my parents were raised with different ideas regarding dogs, which is obvious every time my Mom visits and asks that Lucy and Dory be put outside now. Anyway, Jetta wasn't socialized, and it was obvious. She loved us ferociously, but was just ferocious regarding other people. She would have been very trainable had somebody bothered with it, though.

I'm sure that a properly trained GSD from good blood lines would probably make a great pet. However, I have vivid memories of my uncle's old GSD, Bruce, who rightfully scared the crap out of me when I was a kid. That kind of childhood trauma can stick with a person a bit.


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## nixietink

I love GSD's...well most. 

My grandpa had a white GSD when I was growing up. This GSD made me truly fall in love with dogs. He was a phenomenal, phenomenal dog. 

My brother has a GSD. He's beautiful, strong headed, intelligent, and slightly anxious. I personally think he just doesn't get enough exercise. Vito cannot keep up, and frankly does not appreciate, his rough play. It's been hard...kind of a divide because their dog is so rough with Vito.  

I had NEVER met an aggressive GSD until the other day at the park. I came in with Vito and this GSD was playing fetch with his owner. I let Vito off lead and right away this GSD comes straight for him pummeling Vito to the ground as he growled and lunged at him. Vito scrambled fast enough to his feet and the GSD was RIGHT over him immediately. Luckily, his owner grabbed him before anything else happened. I clipped Vito up and left right away. It was scary.


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## ilovemydogs

I don't have a lot of experience with GSD's, but what little I have had they seem like sweet dogs. My neighbors have one that is not the least bit aggressive. In fact I think that she is afraid of her own shadow.


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## desilu

I can't choose one of the options, because it seems to me that with this breed, it depends so much on the individual dog. I think they are beautiful and have met some very lovely GSDs. I have also encountered some very scary GSDs. I know they aren't the breed for me - I love my goofy goldens!


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## ggd

I like them, my grandparents had one that I loved when I visited them as a child. We were buddies when I was there and he followed he everywhere.


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## Jo Ellen

I certainly do have the impression that GSD's are naturally aggressive, and I've never been around one. Not sure how I got that impression, it had to have come from somewhere. Maybe because they are guard dogs and I see them a lot in the police force? And aren't they right up there in the statistics for fatal dog attacks on humans? I'll have to recheck that.

Anyway, I am fascinated with german shephereds. I'd really love to have one someday. I like the one-to-one relationship, I like the feeling of being guarded, and I like the impression they give others to think twice before they mess with me. But I'm afraid of most dogs LOL ... I'm not sure I'm the right kind of person to own a GSD. But I am fascinated, I do think about it ... but ..... 

All that being said, would the GSD owners here consider me to be an inexperienced dog owner or not someone that should own a GSD? What qualities should a GSD owner have? What is the general profie of a responsible GSD owner?


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo

I've met some wonderful GSD's. I've also met a few I really respect and know to keep my distance. My friend's rescue GSD actually spent many hours with a Senior Citizen. They loved each other and he was the most gentle dog.


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## fostermom

Adriennelane said:


> I guess this is where I'm wary of them. My dog growing up was half lab/ half chow, and she was _very _single family loyal. I honestly don't think she could have lived with another family. I was just a kid, and my parents were raised with different ideas regarding dogs, which is obvious every time my Mom visits and asks that Lucy and Dory be put outside now. Anyway, Jetta wasn't socialized, and it was obvious. She loved us ferociously, but was just ferocious regarding other people. She would have been very trainable had somebody bothered with it, though.
> 
> I'm sure that a properly trained GSD from good blood lines would probably make a great pet. However, I have vivid memories of my uncle's old GSD, Bruce, who rightfully scared the crap out of me when I was a kid. That kind of childhood trauma can stick with a person a bit.


I also had a corgi/chow who was very one family, too. Chows are really that way, that's for sure! She could have never lived with another family, the sun rose and set around my husband as far as she was concerned. Eventually we had to have her put to sleep (she was 10) because her aggression towards strangers and our other dog had gotten increasingly worse.

I think that why some people think a GSD will nail you with no warning is because their ears are almost always at alert. Whether they are interested, curious or on defense. They are very hard to read (I have trouble reading boxers too because of their wrinkled lips). And the way they look directly at you can be intimidating.


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## Jo Ellen

My fascination with GSD's began right here with Diesel


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## fostermom

Jo Ellen said:


> Anyway, I am fascinated with german shephereds. I'd really love to have one someday. I like the one-to-one relationship, I like the feeling of being guarded, and I like the impression they give others to think twice before they mess with me. But I'm afraid of most dogs LOL ... I'm not sure I'm the right kind of person to own a GSD. But I am fascinated, I do think about it ... but .....
> 
> All that being said, would the GSD owners here consider me to be an inexperienced dog owner or not someone that should own a GSD? What qualities should a GSD owner have? What is the general profie of a responsible GSD owner?


I am not a GSD owner, but as long as you are committed to socialization and training, plus exercise, there would be no reason you shouldn't have one. I am fascinated by them too, and may have one in the future myself. I love Obi. Man, that dog's mouth is HUGE! My husband calls him the alligator dog, because when he opens his mouth, you feel like he will swallow you up. That said, I have never, ever feared that he would hurt me. He is a huge baby.


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## Mssjnnfer

I chose the "a few bad apples, like any breed" option. The ones that I have seen have seemed sweet, but I know there could be bad ones out there. 

I think the next time we get another puppy (lol... that won't be for a while...) we're gonna get a GSD. I do feel safe-ISH with M2 at home, but I would feel COMPLETELY safe with a GSD. People generally know not to mess with them. Even if they are the sweetest dog ever.


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## Jo Ellen

Mssjnnfer said:


> People generally know not to mess with them. Even if they are the sweetest dog ever.


I know, I like that about GSD's.

Gosh Jenna, I'm so glad you brought this topic up. I have so many questions! 

How are GSD's with other people they don't know? Little kids they don't know? What about when my son's fiance's daughter comes over for the first time? What happens when a nice stranger knocks on my door? How are they in unfamiliar places around people they've never met?


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## jwemt81

Jo Ellen said:


> All that being said, would the GSD owners here consider me to be an inexperienced dog owner or not someone that should own a GSD? What qualities should a GSD owner have? What is the general profie of a responsible GSD owner?


One major thing to be aware of is that GSDs are natural protectors and look out for their family. They have an extremely powerful jaw with a tremendous bite force. Our GSD can actually dislodge her jaw to pick up very large/heavy rocks and tree branches. She can easily snap a thick tree branch right in half with just one or two bites. They need to be trained from a very early age so that they can learn not to cross the line when becoming protective, especially when you have guests coming into your home. They need to be trained so that they know what is appropriate behavior and what is not. They are extremely intelligent dogs and can have a huge stubborn streak and, because of that, they're not for everybody!


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## Jo Ellen

See, that scares me, that's what holds me back. I don't know that I would rise to the challenge in the training aspect. I am not 100% consistent and some things fall by the wayside with me ... Daisy is easy, she makes me look good :


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## Griffyn'sMom

My cousin has 2 - one small female who rules the roost and one imense male who is a big dufus - but he has a black face and I think that makes him look very intimidating - besides his size.

We were over one New Years and my then 2 year old wandered over and before I realized what he was doing, had Boomer's big bone - waving it around. My heart was in my throat and here was poor Boomer looking at all of us with this "Help!" look on his sweet face.

I do warn my kids not to wrestle with their cousins and keep the giant hugs down as well since the dogs are protective - but that's about it. They are good dogs.

This is Big Boomer - he's all head!


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## Bossoli

I'm a huge fan of GSDs. I think they're right up there with Goldens as far as trainability and intelligence is concerned- just harder temperaments. I'd love to own a working line GSD someday.


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## jwemt81

Bossoli said:


> I'm a huge fan of GSDs. I think they're right up there with Goldens as far as trainability and intelligence is concerned- just harder temperaments. I'd love to own a working line GSD someday.


This is my brother-in-law's GSD from working lines. She is very intimidating since she is very vocal and has the all black face, but she's really a big baby. She just turned 5.


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## Pudden

known quite a few when I still lived in Germany, and a few more here in the US. All were good, well-behaved dogs. Although, sadly, many were crippled by the age of 6 or 8 due to those weird hips


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## Bossoli

Pudden said:


> known quite a few when I still lived in Germany, and a few more here in the US. All were good, well-behaved dogs. Although, sadly, many were crippled by the age of 6 or 8 due to those weird hips


Yeah, those hips bother me. If it wasn't for that darn slope...


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## Bossoli

jwemt81 said:


> This is my brother-in-law's GSD from working lines. She is very intimidating since she is very vocal and has the all black face, but she's really a big baby. She just turned 5.


Gorgeous!!!


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## Goldenmomma

We had one when I was a child, and I remember her as being sweet, loving, and protective. We had to get rid of her because our neighbor complained and my dad didn't want any trouble. I think they are beautiful, but now I am always worried that neighbors would complain if I got one. I can't stay the thought of getting rid of a 'baby' because it 'looked too scary'. My neighbor's pom is the most ferious dog in our neighborhood. Some people judge a bred and not the dog.


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## Jo Ellen

I definitely think twice about having a dog that people are afraid of. 

But ..... :


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## nixietink

Jo Ellen said:


> See, that scares me, that's what holds me back. I don't know that I would rise to the challenge in the training aspect. I am not 100% consistent and some things fall by the wayside with me ... Daisy is easy, she makes me look good :


Jo, I have NEVER, EVER seen a dog more stubborn than my brother's GSD. They even sent their dog away for over a month to a training program. He still has that stubborn streak, and it shows. : But, to be fair to their dog, they don't really use the most positive of training methods...I would put up a fight too!


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## booklady

I have a GSD mix. Okay, he's mixed with rottweiler and maybe some b & t coonhound (he bays and has longer ears). He has come to work with me every day since I took him out of the shelter at 9 months and has been around babies to senior, disabled, citizens. He will chase a cat if it runs, but when it stops so does he. Has approached every dog he's met as a long, lost friend. Socialization and training was everything. He looks intimidating, but wouldn't hurt a fly. I have a feeling that if I were being robbed, he'd gift wrap and carry it to their car! BUT, he looks impressive! All I need! I have the security of a dog who looks and sounds like he's going for the jugular, but he actually is saying "come here, I love you!"

A combo of two very maligned, very intelligent breeds who need to be socialized and trained. (To my home owner's insurance - he's a coonhound mix)


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## Jo Ellen

nixietink said:


> But, to be fair to their dog, they don't really use the most positive of training methods...I would put up a fight too!


I would probably be too positive. I'm not a very firm, stern person ... not sure that I have the right personality for a GSD ??


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## Griffyn'sMom

She is beautiful but needs to ease up on the twinkies a bit. : Perhaps it's just the camera angle. The slight tip to the one ear gives her a sweet look but I would think twice before headed down a dark alley if I saw her in it! LOL



jwemt81 said:


> This is my brother-in-law's GSD from working lines. She is very intimidating since she is very vocal and has the all black face, but she's really a big baby. She just turned 5.


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## lgnutah

My "best" dog from my childhood was a cross between a collie and a GSD. This was almost 50 years ago. We never "trained" her, but she always just stayed close by whenever she was on a leash or not. She was protective. As a kid I used to tell my friends, "Pretend you're hurting me" to see what she would do (growl menacingly) and cause I was a kid, I had no idea she meant business. I also knew if I told her not to do something, she would obey me.


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## Elisabeth Kazup

The first dog I ever loved was a GSD named Lady. She lived across the street. Sometimes they left her in the yard when there were gone and she would bark a little. I spent hours petting her over the gate.

My mom was taking care of her while they were out of town. Mom had her hand on the door knob and as soon as the door opened far enough, Lady put her teeth around Mom's wrist. Didn't close down. Of course when she realised it was Mom, she was all about playing and getting fed. She was ready to defend if need be. After that we talked to her before opening the door and she was all wiggle butt and kisses.

I loved that dog to pieces!


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## Jo Ellen

How would a person go about getting a "good" german shepherd? 

Do they play like regular dogs? Can you play tug with them? Do they sit next to you and cuddle maybe or do they sit across the room and watch you? Would they sleep in your bedroom or downstairs by the front door?

I have so many questions!


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## Elisabeth Kazup

I don't know about the breed now but Lady grew up with kids. She had 2 boys of her own plus all the kids in the neighborhood. There were never any warnings about how to play with her or what to be careful with. She was always part of the gang.


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## Ashivon

Sorry to tell you guys, but I've been a GSD fan since I was seven, and I met Queenie. She was supposed to be our watch dog, dad used to keep her isolated to make her mean. I'd sneak in and talk to her while she sat in a corner. My mom saw how attatched we were and decided that she wasn't some monster.

GSD have been my choice since. 
For twenty yrs I've worked with all kinds of dogs, GSD's have this remarkable ablility to attach themselves, both to good owners and bad. They need to be needed, taught, led and loved and without it they will literally go insane.

It just happened to be a golden that came into my life a few yrs ago, but I named her after a GSD Lisa the first.

The dear hubby decided he wanted another dog after Poochie passed from bone cancer. He picked a lil GSD girl he named Gina an promptly decided to ignore her. Left to him she'd have become one of those neurotic chewers and barkers, when all she wants is nothing more than follow where you lead. 

Lisa has ADHD so she'll follow me up until she gets distracted by bright light or a butterfly LOL

Just between us Lisa has graciously decided to share her mommy and adopt herself a baby sister. In our eyes she has been renamed "Djina" or just "na-na". They are currently sleeping at my feet butt to nose LOL


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## docinbird

Orson was rescued from a horrible situation and was almost starved to death. He was my best friend dog. He was so intelligent that it was scary, opening doors from the inside and knowing which presents were his under the tree at Christmas, among other things.

He was very gentle with kids and pups and was so well behaved that he went virtually everywhere with me. Everyone just assumed he was a service dog. He even had a job at the local supermarket, for which he was paid in fresh bones.

Everyone in the area knew him. A common situation was someone coming up to us and saying, "Hi Orson, and I forgot your name."

Does he look mean or threatening?


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## FlyingQuizini

I personally don't like making sweeping generalizations about breeds of dogs -- that they're all "good" or "bad" or whatever. Here in LA, several years ago, pretty much every GSD I saw in a class had a crappy temperament. Thankfully, it seems to be swinging back to nice-tempered dogs.

The one generalization that I *will* make is that I think they need a TON of socialization with people/places/experiences - even more than a lot of other breeds.

Suzanne Clothier is a GSD breeder. I've often said if I were inclined to want a GSD, I'd get one of her pups, but she breeds very, very, VERY infrequently.


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## Ashivon

Jo Ellen said:


> How would a person go about getting a "good" german shepherd?
> 
> Do they play like regular dogs? Can you play tug with them? Do they sit next to you and cuddle maybe or do they sit across the room and watch you? Would they sleep in your bedroom or downstairs by the front door?
> 
> I have so many questions!


Like any other breed, do your research. Health mental and genetic. 
Djina plays, cuddles like any of my other dogs. I would say they do benefit from sleeping with you in the same room. Lisa would be with us and she'd get stuck downstairs in a kennel. We brought a kennel upstairs so she can hang out.
:wavey: The monks of new skete have been my bible for years. 

PS They can be chewy as puppys, LOTS of chew toys


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## Jo Ellen

Docinbird! Orson is amazing, I could look at that dog all day and still be filled with wonder. Does he look mean? No but he looks like he could be fierce if he wanted to be ... I wouldn't want him to get mad at me LOL

I soooooo want a german shepherd. Just like Orson. Chewy I can handle but I'm a very timid person by nature, just not sure that's a good mix with a GSD.


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## AquaClaraCanines

My GSD is stable, sweet, mellow, easy going, quiet, and loving! He ADORES children and is drawn to them. He is beautiful and everyone is fascinated by his color and his long coat. He is a true dream dog and I am SO blessed. He is the most cuddly dog I own, and could spend all day on my lap or snuggled beside me. He is a sight to behold with beautiful movement and that shining black coat. He is alert and aware, but not timid. I have a great dog and I am blessed. There's NOTHING compares to a GOOD Shepherd. They do need a lot of socialization. More than most breeds. I agree with that. I love my puppy to pieces. I enjoy reading the experiences!


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## sammydog

Love them. I grew up with them. They are great dogs and as a child when I grew up with them, I must say great with children!


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## cubbysan

Jo Ellen said:


> How would a person go about getting a "good" german shepherd?
> 
> Do they play like regular dogs? Can you play tug with them? Do they sit next to you and cuddle maybe or do they sit across the room and watch you? Would they sleep in your bedroom or downstairs by the front door?
> 
> I have so many questions!


Even though my GSD was fear agressive, he was a big baby. Even as an adult, he loved to be held on the couch like a baby on his back. He would sleep in bed with us, and was like having a little child. He would whine when he was worried about something, like one of the other dogs finding where he hid his treats. 

He once buried a slice of pizza in the laundry basket. Boy, was I surprised when I did the laundry.

When my daughter was about 7 months old, whenever she crawled away from me, he would grab her by her onsie, and carry her back. 

Amazingly, he was the only puppy that never tried to challenge me and when he did look at us from across the room, you could just see the love he had for us in his eyes. Very loyal.


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## spruce

didn't read whole thread.....but a trained GSD is the most impressive sight! 

my former in-laws had an really nice GSD girl they didn't train (farm dog) and she was wonderful


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## Tahla9999

Like Jo, I'm fascinated by the breed. To me they are nothing short of incredicable, but strangely I have no desire to own one. Maybe some day in the future my feelings might change....

I always believed that Chouchi was a mix between a GSD and a chow. Your thoughts?


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## Lisa_and_Willow.

Jo Ellen said:


> My fascination with GSD's began right here with Diesel


:smooch: As much as I adore Willow and Lucky before her I have to admit that Diesel has my heart. I grew up wanting a GSD and have many of them in my family but although I knew what shepherds were like owning one has been a bit of a rollarcoaster ride!

When looking for a pup I knew I wanted one without the horrible sloped back and preferably long-coated (I know it is a fault but I love the look.) In my mind I knew I had found the right breeder when I went to their house and Diesel's father leaned against me and 'talked' to me as I scratched his ears. He is the sweetest boy ever! 

Dad









I also met his sister who was as lovely as him but had recently held off an man who tried to attack their daughter. She didn't bite him but put him in a 'bark and hold' position until the police came. 

Diesel was a noisy pup but very friendly and happy. When he was 5 months old he was attacked while off leash by two adult GSD's. They chased him and he ran into a metal fenced area and got his head stuck. He screamed and screamed which scared off the other dogs. From then on he started showing mild dog aggression. It was my fault and I should have done something earlier but one more attack by yet another GSD tipped the scales. Diesel was fear aggressive to other dogs.

If a dog came near him he would raise his hackles and bark but too close and he would want to run away. I found a good training group with someone who knew the breed and thankfully his fear has mostly gone. He is still wary of other GSD's and dogs bigger than himself but he knows just to sit quietly near me and I won't let them too close. I don't mind that he doesn't want to play with every dog all I ask is that he is calm and quiet and that he trusts me. 

It has taken time but the trust is there and I think that going through that has made him and me a stonger team. He adore little dogs and puppies and will crawl on his belly to play with them. 

He is a one person dog although family and friends all get licks and cuddles he will always return to me and I like that. 

When I hurt myself on a walk last year it was just me and the dogs. I had climbed a huge stile and fell over. I had barbed wire wrapped around my leg and couldn't get up. The dogs were on the other side but I called to Diesel and he climbed over to get to me. I held his collar and he pulled me out. He cried as I examined my leg and wouldn't leave my side until I got home. 



Jo Ellen said:


> Do they play like regular dogs? Can you play tug with them? Do they sit next to you and cuddle maybe or do they sit across the room and watch you? Would they sleep in your bedroom or downstairs by the front door?
> 
> I have so many questions!


Diesel is noisy when he plays and loves to be chased by Willow. He also loves to retrieve his ball and like to carry it home after a walk. I think it makes him feel important! He loves water and swimming. And he will happily play tug although 'drop it' is needed for this game as you could never win! He is very big on cuddles and sleeps on my bed with me until he gets too hot.


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## twinny41

Oh Lisa we know how much you love Diesel, it oozes from your posts. We all love him too (and Willow of course). He is one gorgeous dog and if I ever had a GS he would have to look like Diesel!
Thanks for sharing all those pictures and the story of his background, some of which I have never heard before.


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## maggie1951

I love them like all dogs you gets some that let the breed down we have one near us at the moment she is fine with people not dogs she is a rescue and the owner is taking her to classes so hopfully she will change.
And lovely photo's Lisa i love Diesel to and Willow of course.


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## AquaClaraCanines

I love that boy, too!! One reason I wanted a long hair, and bi-color long hairs are so unusual and striking. I feel so lucky!


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## tintallie

kdmarsh said:


> Anyone know what's up with white german shepherds? My neighbor has 4 of them and I don't know if they're a genetic defect or if there is a whole different category for white german shepherds.
> 
> Beautiful dogs... when I see them - which is next to never.


White GSDs are a result of a recessive genetics and are not part of the GSD standard (SV - the organization for GSDs in Germany) and would be disqualified from conformation, so some white GSD fanciers have started clubs for just the white GSDs. The SV views breedworthiness with a much more strict eye than the AKC or CanKC. You need to have a working title, the AD (12 mi endurance test), a breed survey, and clearances for hips and elbow.



Bossoli said:


> Yeah, those hips bother me. If it wasn't for that darn slope...


You are thinking of conformation lines...Working line breeders highly value the structure of the dog and a dog that walks on its hocks and pasterns would not be able to work. Breeding for extreme angulation for a "flying trot" and black and tan colours only has been a detriment to the breed



Jo Ellen said:


> How would a person go about getting a "good" german shepherd?
> 
> Do they play like regular dogs? Can you play tug with them? Do they sit next to you and cuddle maybe or do they sit across the room and watch you? Would they sleep in your bedroom or downstairs by the front door?
> 
> I have so many questions!


Ask lots of questions, find a GSD forum to talk to GSD owners, contact the United Schutzhund Club of America and contact breeders to talk to from the breeder directory. It took me over 8 months to find a breeder I liked and I have constant support from them even if they are in Chicago, IL and I'm in Alberta, Canada.

Miya is a busy busy girl and doesn't sit still for long unless she is occupied with a bone or toy or obedience. I have her sleeping in a crate in my room so that she is bonding with us even while we sleep, but the crate helps keep her out of trouble because she likes to chew.

You sometimes luck out and get a mellow one like Jenna's or you get one that is higher energy and drive. I'm thinking of participating in Schutzhund with the help of a trainer we have been seeing privately and I have been teaching my pup to play tug. She also knows to "out" her toy when I ask her to, and it is a good outlet for her energy. Miya is smart as a whip and it gets her into trouble sometimes LOL!

Here's a link to her breeder: http://www.kulladogs.com Bill is a UScA teaching helper at the national level and both he and his wife train their dogs, title their dogs and hold back a pup every so often to see how the lines develop.


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## AquaClaraCanines

She is GORGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!!! Looks a lot like my puppy's mother, who is a Treu daughter.


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## Murphysmom

I've never had one but it was a toss up between a golden and a GSD. The only reason we didn't get a GSD is because I'm a novice and all the research I did suggested a golden would be better. Of course now I wouldn't trade him for the world!


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## Maxs Mom

While I have some friends who have very nice GSD's, I do not trust them. I think I am more leary of GSD's than I am of Pits. Their intensity is too much for me. If I am between my friends and their dogs, I do NOT exist in that dogs eyes and will blow me over to get to their owner. 

I do not think they are vicious dogs, I think most are incredible if trained properly. I like the strong hind end version not the AKC hind end version. I think they are beautiful, I just never want one.


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## AquaClaraCanines

My favorite thing about them (and sighthounds) is how devoted to their special person they are! It's not for everyone, though.


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## bwoz

I LOVE them, and have always had them or at least a mix of Shepherd. I think if you get one with the correct temperment, you have a wonderful dog that is good with family and strangers. They are definitely reserved with their affection though, a big change for me with a Golden! But I've seen lots that are badly bred too, including my last dog. He was 130 pounds and VERY fearful so I'd say there wasn't a good breeder thinking about the standard with his litter. It was alot of work, but he really was a good dog. I do think about getting another some day. There's a guide dog facility near us and they breed their own unique line, so I think I'd foster pups for them when and if I was ready for one again.


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## LifeOfRiley

Jo Ellen said:


> All that being said, would the GSD owners here consider me to be an inexperienced dog owner or not someone that should own a GSD? What qualities should a GSD owner have? What is the general profie of a responsible GSD owner?


Personally, I think you could handle it just fine, Jo. 
As a first-time GSD owner, I think the first key is finding a reputable breeder. One who breeds for temperament above all else. If you start out with a well-bred pup and are committed to training and socializing (throughout the dog's life, not just in the beginning) then, chances are, you'll do just fine. 
You do have to be a leader, but it's not like you have to rule with an iron fist. My mom isn't exactly what I would call a strong leader. She's quite the pushover where the dogs are concerned and she's had no problems handling our GSDs. (I swear, more often than not, they've just humored her, but it works, so... lol.)
Another big key is common sense and I think you have plenty of that. They're _not_ goofy Goldens and you just have to be mindful of that, at all times. With most, their main priority in life is to protect you. That can be a good thing and it can be a problem if they feel the need to protect you when it isn't necessary. That's where socialization is such a HUGE key. They not only need to go out in the world and meet "strangers", they need to be exposed to strangers coming into their home, from an early age. They need to understand that when you say "it's okay", they're to stand down, so to speak. 

If you ever do seriously think about getting one, I'd suggest getting involved with a rescue, or something, just to spend some time around the breed and get to know it, before you start looking for a pup. (Or, you never know, you might just fall in love with one at the rescue.) Working with a GSD rescue, you'd pretty much get to see it all - the good, the bad and the ugly.
But overall, I really think you'd be just fine with a GSD. The only people who make me cringe are the ones who don't already have an understanding that they CAN be overprotective or the ones who get them specifically BECAUSE they're protective and want to exploit that trait. (The ones who visit the GSD forum, asking, "How do I train him/her to attack on command?" :doh


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## goldensmum

Never had one but have worked with them and found the majority of them ok - like most breeds that are lumped in the "aggresive breed" box,(rotties etc) many of the dogs wouldn't be aggresive etc if they had gone to the right people, and not the idiots who have them for their "macho" image


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## NuttinButGoldens

I think any dog can surprise you, in the wrong way. And any dog has the _capability _to do damage.

When I was a kid, thee was a Neighborhood St. Bernard named Bravo. He was well over 200 pounds. He was usually in the owners yard, but he did run free in the Neighborhood as well, for years. All the kids played with him. Some of the smaller kids even rode him from time to time (yeah, I know...). He was the Neighborhood mascot. Never snarled or made a bad move towards any living thing.

Here the really sad part begins 

One day, a couple of criminals planning to break into their house, threw poisoned meat over the fence, and Bravo ate it. He became Cujo very shortly thereafter.

He **** near killed 3 people before he was put down


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## docinbird

Jo, just be prepared to intellectually stimulate a GSD. It is equally important with physical exercise. After Orson mastered the basic CGC things and learned not to cross the thresholds of doors and curbs, I had to come up with new training methods. I used a combination of the game approach (everything he learns is a game and doing it right is winning the game and thus its own reward) and the theory of contextual behavior (where he adapts his behavior to the situation). It was great fun and he very much enjoyed learning new games.

GSDs are territorial, so expect one to check the fence line on a regular basis. The urge to defend can be channeled with some training. When some punk would be physically threatening to me, Orson would simply position himself between us and give the guy "the stare" (he could stare down cats for fun). My dw weighed the same as he did, so he would be a little more protective, but always within the boundaries of his training.

I must say that it was far easier to train foster dogs with Orson here. I could work at training them all I wanted, but he could do it better. They would model what he did.

GSDs are herding dogs, so you should be prepared for that too. It can actually be fun to watch, because those being herded don't have a clue that they are being herded. Want to see a gaggle of kids become a nice tight group?

Orson was gentle with pups and kids. When introduced to a young Jack Russell pup, he showed the patience of Job while this little thing climbed up to sit on top of his head.

There are GSDs that need to be rescued and some good breeders. If you take your time and learn the breed characteristics, you can often find young dogs in rescue that have the traits you might want. It just takes patience and a little education.


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## NuttinButGoldens

When I was a kid, my pal Trooper, who was a GSD, LOVED to play Tetherball. And he was ****** good at it too!

He did puncture a few balls though


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## Hershey

I love German Shepherds, and I also love American Pit Bull Terriers. Two of my favorite breeds. I am always saddened how a breed of dog can have such a terrible reputation. It's the fault of the owner, the "more intelligent species", NOT the dog. Yet people constantly blame the breed instead of pointing the blame where it belongs.


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## Lisa_and_Willow.

AquaClaraCanines said:


> My favorite thing about them (and sighthounds) is how devoted to their special person they are! It's not for everyone, though.


I love this too. The bond is amazing. 

I was quite shocked when I first got Willow as everything about her was so easy going. Totally different from a Shepherd or my terrier. She is easier to train than Diesel because she just acts when I ask her to while Diesel thinks 'why?' I think I got him through his Silver Good Citizen test by luck alone as he sees very little point in heelwork. He walks lovely on leash outside of class but prancing around a hall over and over is not for him! 

His talent is for tracking and he loves this with a passion. Our favorite game is for my mum to walk Willow around the village and Diesel will track her down about 30 mins after. As soon as he sees his harness come out he goes nuts! He also likes finding treats/toys/objects around the house.

Herding and stalking is an everyday game for him. He will crouch and stalk Willow for ages before springing into action and chasing her!

He is generally a very aloof dog and if someone new comes to the house he will check them out then go to his bed. He is never agressive, just watchful. He did surprise me the other day by giving this strange man lots of kisses but the man laughed and said that he had just eaten a bacon sandwich! Must be the way to Diesel's heart!


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## cubbysan

Another thing about owning a German Shepherd is that most home owner's insurances will not cover them (at least not in the state of Massahcusetts). I had to go into the state "pool" of insurers, and then get an extra binder which cost about 20 percent more if I wanted to be protected from lawsuits.


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## HovawartMom

The white Shepherd or better known as The"Berger Blanc de Suisse" is FCI recognized and shown,everywhere but in the AKC!.
Beautiful dogs,most of all,the LH ones!.
Hammer is not only beautiful,goofy but also ball crazy and loving!.
Here are a couple of pictures of Hammer,Priska and Titus!:


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## AquaClaraCanines

Pretty! She looks like a WGSL, nice girl.


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## tintallie

AquaClaraCanines said:


> She is GORGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!!! Looks a lot like my puppy's mother, who is a Treu daughter.


Miya is my purdy girl LOL but everyone seems to think she's male depsite her feminine head. I even had one person ask if she was a black Lab :doh: Since when do people crop Lab ears?! 

What is Spirit's pedigree? You can do a search here on the PDB site: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/index.html


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## tintallie

LifeOfRiley said:


> But it seems that the working line breeders tend to focus more on temperament and are "better" all-around breeders from square one. The American/American show lines are far more common with the BYB, which (I think) is a huge part of the problem.


Breeders that work and train their dogs will know their lines inside and out. There are indeed some working line dogs that you probably don't want to handle, but an experienced breeder would be upfront with you and if they don't have something that is a good match, they would know where to direct you to.



Jo Ellen said:


> See, that scares me, that's what holds me back. I don't know that I would rise to the challenge in the training aspect. I am not 100% consistent and some things fall by the wayside with me ... Daisy is easy, she makes me look good :


Jo Ellen, I was also hesitant about getting a GSD, but I think that it has to do a lot with its reputation (good and bad). Crazy neighbourhood children are not trying to approach Miya and molest her (which I like).



nixietink said:


> Jo, I have NEVER, EVER seen a dog more stubborn than my brother's GSD. They even sent their dog away for over a month to a training program. He still has that stubborn streak, and it shows. : But, to be fair to their dog, they don't really use the most positive of training methods...I would put up a fight too!


Hardness in temperament is a good and bad thing. A dog that is hard towards the handler can be more forgiving during training if the handler is an amateur and makes mistakes. A dog that is too soft would probably do poorly in protection (actually personal protection dog or Schutzhund (sport)).

Different dogs need different training techniques. My breeder starts all their pups with imprinting by using a clicker. Currently, I am using a clicker to mark her correct behaviour as well. The video below is of my breeder working with a pup.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=gsdayla#p/u/17/cpOxeVlXfd4


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## AquaClaraCanines

He's on there


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## Phillyfisher

I love GSD's, and someday hope to have another. The one we had as kids growing up, Gus, will forever hold a very special place in my heart. His devotion to our family was unbelievable. Super smart, smarter than a lot of humans! I would love to get another one someday, but my biggest worry would be finding a good pup. Guess I will have to find a GSD forum when the time comes. Love the photos of Diesel Lisa! What a beautiful boy.


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## DNL2448

I used to show GSDs and they were wonderful dogs. I noticed (20 some years ago) that there was a 3 way split in the breed, German, All-Breed and Speciality. The speciality dogs were very angulated and of a softer temperment than the all-breed dogs who were, in my opinion the most well rounded dogs. The German dogs had that crazy hump in their back that I never liked. They are the most magnificantly regal looking dogs, and a well put together will take your breath away.


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## AquaClaraCanines

Lisa, it's funny, just today Spirit was doing some major "stalking" at the dog park!


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## Selli-Belle

Diesel is beautiful in the stalking picture.

GSDs can either be really wonderful dogs or dogs you do not want to be around. 

Like so many others, we had a GSD when I was growing up. He was a reject from a "sniffing dog" kennel. He washed out as a six week old puppy. He was a great dog who was a nationally ranked obedience GSD when he had to retire due to spinal myelopathy. He loved other dogs but was not good with very young children and was afraid of thunder, fireworks and fire.

Now, unfortunately, I see far more not so good GSDs than good GSDs. There are a few GREAT GSDs that I work with, one being an intact male who is just a sweetheart and also very good looking in a classic GSD way. I have had two young female GSDs who come in who are very human aggressive. One owner is trying to deal with it, the other liked her dog that way (we told her not to come back).

As the owner of a private dog park, I can say, we have not had one GSD remain as a member for very long. When they get to be 18 months they start getting pushy, which is just so sad, our GSD was so good with other dogs. I have noticed that it seems to be the thinner-boned, smaller GSDs that are so sharp.

I think that GSDs have been a popular breed for much longer than GRs have been so greeders and puppy mills have had a much longer time to screw them up in terms of temperament. I so fear for our breed.


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## Lisa_and_Willow.

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Lisa, it's funny, just today Spirit was doing some major "stalking" at the dog park!


How cute! I love it when puppies play at being big dogs!


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## Ashivon

AquaClaraCanines said:


> My GSD is stable, sweet, mellow, easy going, quiet, and loving! He ADORES children and is drawn to them. He is beautiful and everyone is fascinated by his color and his long coat. He is a true dream dog and I am SO blessed. He is the most cuddly dog I own, and could spend all day on my lap or snuggled beside me. He is a sight to behold with beautiful movement and that shining black coat. He is alert and aware, but not timid. I have a great dog and I am blessed. There's NOTHING compares to a GOOD Shepherd. They do need a lot of socialization. More than most breeds. I agree with that. I love my puppy to pieces. I enjoy reading the experiences!


Okay must fess up ...stole a picture of ur doggie and Diesel, pinups for Djina:


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## AquaClaraCanines

Awwwww!


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## docinbird

I forgot to mention one of the most endearing attributes of a GSD. Since most GSDs have black, brown, tan, grey, and white fur, the dog hair they produce goes with almost any sweater, fleece, suit, or dress you might own.


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## AquaClaraCanines

Oh yes, the German Shedder is the real name LOL


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## nellie'smom

Grew up with German Shepherds, love them. Can't wait until I can have another. (Would love another black male  ). The 4 we had were great, loyal, loving, and they knew when to be protective. Not nasty by any means. My dad always tells a story of when my little sister was a baby and she was in her car seat on the couch, and a vacuum sales man came, and he went to sit down by my sister on the couch and Princess stopped him. She was also the dog that would let you on the porch, but not off of the porch. LOL! 
Spirit, is gorgeous, and I just love seeing pictures of him.


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## Lucky's mom

I've had two dogs in the past that was half German shepherd and half somthing else. And I've spent time with the neighbors GS.

So my GS experience is very limited, but they were simular in many traits.. 

Loyalty was sooooo strong within these three dogs. These dogs didn't just want your "lovin"...they were your partner.

Territorial and not into "wandering". 

Highly energetic and needing to work. If a good "work ethic" didn't take place in some way or form, then incessent barking would happen.

Recall.....SO GOOD at recall. I could trust these dogs to come back on a turn of a dime.

Loved kids they knew. Wary of any strangers.


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## Lisa_and_Willow.

The only times I have ever had an issue with Diesel's recall is when he is playing with a puppy in the park. But even then that was with me standing and watching him, if I had started to walk away he would have followed. 

And the hair doesn't go well with the purple carpet in my bedroom!


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## tintallie

On our morning walks in the dark (6am), Miya is very alert of our surroundings and will frequently switch walking to the opposite side if she feels she needs to be between a stranger and I. A few times it was a woman jogging and she was wearing head to toe black.

I'm glad my GSD is all black since over half of my clothes are black!


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## Ashivon

Seems like a lot of us have or have had two breeds that each are special in their own way, but are in general strong, athletic (or can be LOL) and are highly trainable. 
(can be disasterous when you don't)
I wonder what it says about us collectively as owners?

PS..I see willow is tanning a bit LOL is her nose still black? Lisa's fur got darker, and she started getting snow-nose LOL


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## EvilNessCroft

I never meet one! They are such a beautiful breed. But I'll admit I am a little weary of them..!  They scare me. But maybe if you introduce me to your sweet Spirit, I'd change my mind!


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## LifeOfRiley

tintallie said:


> Breeders that work and train their dogs will know their lines inside and out. There are indeed some working line dogs that you probably don't want to handle, but an experienced breeder would be upfront with you and if they don't have something that is a good match, they would know where to direct you to.


Oh, definitely. I know of a few working line GSDs that I, personally, wouldn't want to handle. I know my limitations. LOL. Some of them have way too much drive for me!
But that's what I was trying to say - I think that most who breed working lines tend to be better breeders from the get-go. I mean (from what I generally see, anyway) you won't find many true working line GSD pups advertised in the newspaper. On any given day, I can look through our classifieds and I'd say about 99.9% of the backyard-bred GSD pups are going to be American/American show lines. So I think that has a lot to do with it. It might come down to the breeders more than the actual line, itself. 



EvilNessCroft said:


> But maybe if you introduce me to your sweet Spirit, I'd change my mind!


Oh, I wish you could meet my Gunner, too. He's a good alarm system and generally scares the crap out of people who come up to the door, but he's really just a big, sweet baby. He loves everybody. He'll be seven years old this Friday and I've seen him act protective of me exactly once. He knows that it's generally not necessary and would rather be nice to people, because that means they'll pet and play with him. lol.
Even my vet goes on and on about what a big sweetheart he is. There are a few GSD breeders who are clients there as well and she must be used to dealing with ones who require a little caution because she always says that she can't get over what a lovebug Gunner is.


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## EvilNessCroft

LifeOfRiley said:


> Oh, I wish you could meet my Gunner, too. He's a good alarm system and generally scares the crap out of people who come up to the door, but he's really just a big, sweet baby. He loves everybody. He'll be seven years old this Friday and I've seen him act protective of me exactly once. He knows that it's generally not necessary and would rather be nice to people, because that means they'll pet and play with him. lol.
> Even my vet goes on and on about what a big sweetheart he is. There are a few GSD breeders who are clients there as well and she must be used to dealing with ones who require a little caution because she always says that she can't get over what a lovebug Gunner is.


Aaw! He looks like a sweetheart!  Did you even post pictures of him?


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## LifeOfRiley

EvilNessCroft said:


> Aaw! He looks like a sweetheart!  Did you even post pictures of him?


This is the GunMan. July of this year










This was him acting like a pup, playing in the snow last winter. He's a little thin in this picture. I think it was taken shortly after he was diagnosed with EPI and he hadn't put much weight back on yet.


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## EvilNessCroft

He's gorgeous! The first pic makes you wanna sit there beside him for some cuddle time!


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## laprincessa

My best friend growing up had a GSD named Christina, but for some reason we called her Sy. She was the best, we could do anything with her and she was just a big baby, but don't let anyone try to come near us with evil intentions. I adored her.

And then I met Bear, his best friend has a GSD named Sasha. She wouldn't let me in the house, wouldn't let me sit down once I finally got in, stared at me the entire time we were there. I was terrified of her. I told her owners, and thank God, they didn't tell me not to worry, they worked with us together, and now Sasha is my buddy. I'd love to have one, but like Jo, I don't think I'm strong enough to really give a GSD what he or she would need.


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## AquaClaraCanines

They really are amazing dogs.


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## LifeOfRiley

EvilNessCroft said:


> He's gorgeous! The first pic makes you wanna sit there beside him for some cuddle time!


Thanks! 
It's funny, he's not much of a cuddler. He'll let you sit next to him and pet him or brush him for as long as you want to do it. He loves that. But if I start trying to hug on him, he gets the most annoyed look on his face. There's no doubt that he's thinking something along the lines of "Ugh, god... stop your fussing already." lol. Then he immediately brings me a toy. I guess playing tug or fetch is his idea of 'quality time.'


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## AquaClaraCanines

My Spirit is a cuddle freak!!!! I hope he doesn't outgrow it!


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## LifeOfRiley

AquaClaraCanines said:


> My Spirit is a cuddle freak!!!! I hope he doesn't outgrow it!


If he's that much of a cuddler, I'd say there's a pretty good chance that he won't outgrow it.
Gunner's _never _been much of a cuddlebug. Not even when he was a pup. But really, when I think about it, we've only had one other GSD who didn't appreciate cuddling. All the others have been big lapdogs.


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## AquaClaraCanines

Gunner is so beautiful!


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## BorzoiMom

To answer the question- to be blunt- HEAVENS NO! They are a fabulous breed! One I had for 25 years, and would not change a thing. Granted- they need training and socialization- wellllllll so should any breed. Highly intellegent and given good exercise, structured training, one FABULOUS breed! As a matter of fact, speaking as a certified trainer, I trust big breeds much quicker than spoiled little ones- at least the Napolian complex has not set in. 
Granted- my dogs are spoiled every lovin rotton- but - they know the line they tow, and same with my shepherds. ( man- I better get off this soap box fast...) lol


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## Lisa_and_Willow.

Jenna- Diesel didn't cuddle much as a puppy but all he wants is cuddles now! He likes to lie against me, put his head on my chest and look up at me. I swear he only does it because I find it adorable!


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## Jo Ellen

I want a german shepherd


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## LifeOfRiley

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Gunner is so beautiful!


Thank you! 
It's hard to believe that he's going to be 7 years old this Friday. I think he's lookin' pretty good. (Especially for an EPI dog.)


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## AquaClaraCanines

Wow! He is! I thought he was 2 or 3.


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## Sivin

I just misread the poll -- thought it was about goldens --and didn't vote the way I would have. Rather than vote GSDs in the #1 option, as I did, I would have selected #2.


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## LifeOfRiley

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Wow! He is! I thought he was 2 or 3.


LOL. It even surprised our new vet, the first time she saw him. She was looking over his records before starting the exam and was all ready to correct his date of birth. She'd guessed about 4.


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## AquaClaraCanines

I get that with Rigby too, from vets and even Whippet breeders. They ask if he's Rigby's son, because they can't imagine Rigby still looks so good at 12. Most people think he's about 3 or 4.


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## LifeOfRiley

AquaClaraCanines said:


> I get that with Rigby too, from vets and even Whippet breeders. They ask if he's Rigby's son, because they can't imagine Rigby still looks so good at 12. Most people think he's about 3 or 4.


Rigby does look fantastic. I'd never guess his age either, if I didn't know.


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## AquaClaraCanines

Do you have any pics of your boy as a baby? I just love GSD puppy ears lol


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## LifeOfRiley

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Do you have any pics of your boy as a baby? I just love GSD puppy ears lol


Oh, I have pictures! They aren't very good, though. (The camera I had then was even worse than the one I have now. lol.)
He was the goofiest-looking pup - I think he looked like a little bat - but there was something about him I couldn't resist. 

This was the day we brought him home.










About a week later











Mr. Serious



















And I just love this one of him and Cooper. "Who, us? We weren't fighting over the toy."


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## EvilNessCroft

Aaaw! Love the ears!  What a sweet face to!


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## Micki's Mum

I LOVE GSDs! I think they were my first dog loves (not counting my mutt that I had for 15 years growing up). There were GSD guard dogs where my dad worked and I always visited them with treats.  I don't think I will ever own one simply because I don't think I could socialize them well enough and I've been told that that is very important.


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## AquaClaraCanines

Goodness! How totally ADORABLE! And your red Golden was GORGEOUS!


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## Mandy's Dad

Before Mandy I had two GSD mixes and then two GSDs. I LOVE the breed!!! Like ALL breeds, they are individuals and can have problems at times, but as a breed they are smart, loyal, wonderful dogs that are just as trustworthy as any other breed.

Here is a photo of my two GSDs:


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## Amerz

I read through most of this thread, but skimmed through some of the middle pages. A few thoughts:

GSD's are a strong willed, hard-headed, incredibly smart breed. As with many working breeds, I believe they require the right owner who will train and exercise them properly. Untrained and poorly exercised will lead to an out of control, destructive shepherd who will then get dumped at the shelter when they are about a year old and the owners can no longer handle them. 

As with any breed, there are good and bad things to consider. All of our shepherds have been very protective of the nuclear family. My dog used to sleep in front of my crib and never left me alone. As I got older, the dog went everywhere with me and would stand in between me and anyone who walked by. Never lunged, or acted aggressively. He was just very alert and watchful of our surroundings. Owners need to be aware that these dogs require training to harness their natural instincts and put them to appropriate use. While its not a requirement to participate in schutzhund or agility, doing those activities are great ways for a shepherd to get the physical and mental exercise they require to thrive. 

My dad was a K9 handler for the police department. We have always had amazing, well behaved dogs as a result of the training he learned on the job. GSD's have been the family dog of choice for our household for over 40 years. Rocko is the first non-shepherd and frankly, my dad was a little peeved at me originally when I brought him home! He loves him now of course, but his only child bringing home a fluffy yellow dog was almost an insult to our household. LOL

As far as the breeding lines go? I won't trash any of them, but will say that as a preference I prefer the Czech dogs. They have a beautiful temperament and fabulous work drive. 

A few pix of our GSD's past and present. The child in these pix is little me.


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## Jo Ellen

Wow, BEAUTIFUL dogs! I love the first picture, have to go look at that again after I post here. And the last picture, that's funny! 

Are these Czech GSD's? 

I'm pretty sure I'm not the right owner for a GSD, I will just admire them from afar. What I see in that first picture is what fascinates me most about this breed ... just wow!


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## tessalover

My grandmother has one who is almost 10 and she is a amazing dog! And does everything she is asked to do and never does soemthing she's not suposed to. Also. there is a stray one running around my village for about 2 months and he seems very friendly. He actully wanted to come play with my golden in the basketball court today, but I was scared abotu fleas otherwise I would have. We have tried to find the owner, but can't and someone down the road has caled the pound many time's as he is very thin, but they never come to get him. Sad! I've been leaving food out, and he's been eatinf and I think he's put on a couple pounds latly!


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## tintallie

Jo Ellen said:


> Wow, BEAUTIFUL dogs! I love the first picture, have to go look at that again after I post here. And the last picture, that's funny!
> 
> Are these Czech GSD's?
> 
> I'm pretty sure I'm not the right owner for a GSD, I will just admire them from afar. What I see in that first picture is what fascinates me most about this breed ... just wow!


@JoEllen

One of the most notable Czech German Shepherd Dog kennels is z Pohraniční stráže which was the Czech border patrol government kennel which has been since disbanded. The same bloodlines are being bred by Jiri Novotny who was also directing the breeding program at z PS. More information about the Czech dogs can be found at http://jinopo.cz/main.php?lg=en

Some of the best known working line dogs have dogs like Titus z PS (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/108942.html) and Norbo Ben-Ju (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/409047.html) are Czech dogs.

For years, I thought a retriever was the right breed for me and later on when the crime increased in my city, I had to think about what I really wanted in a dog a bit more. I actually don't like strange people approaching me to pet my dog without permission and I don't like kids who run at my dog and try to pet my dog either. So my own personal aloofness matches the GSD. You could always try contacting some GSD breeders near you to see if their temperament, personality, energy level match yours. Here is a breeder directory from the United Schutzhund Clubs of America (UScA): http://germanshepherddog.com/breed/KennelList.htm


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## Jo Ellen

Thank you, Tin! 

What is a working drive? What kind of work do companion GSD's do?


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## LifeOfRiley

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Goodness! How totally ADORABLE! And your red Golden was GORGEOUS!


Thanks! 


Amy, those photos are gorgeous! The one pictured with you when you were little, wow - what a looker! 
And that last photo is great. I almost spit my coffee out laughing.


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## AquaClaraCanines

Working drive generally means ball drive, lots of courage (many GSDs are spooks, timid, or what I call "nervebags"). My puppy does the Border Collie "stare-down" and crouch waiting for me to throw the ball. He "herds" dogs at the park, and I can't wait to do herding with him. He is alert, and hears every sound. He is not a barker. He's so sensitive, intuitive, and totally *mine* and just such a special puppy. I think I will always have a GSD.


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## Lisa_and_Willow.

Awwww puppy Gunner! Adorable.


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## FinnTastic

I've only had one experience with them. We use to go to a field with many dogs and one of them was a GSD. He was about a year old but was good with Finn and the other dogs. He was the owners first GSD.


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## AquaClaraCanines

Happy six months to my baby boy!


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## Amerz

Aw, what a handsome boy!


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## LifeOfRiley

Lisa_and_Willow. said:


> Awwww puppy Gunner! Adorable.


 
Thanks!

But I'd be willing to bet that Diesel was the cutest GSD puppy _ever_.
I've never seen a puppy picture of him. (Hint, hint...)


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## Jo Ellen

Oooooohh, a puppy Diesel picture. That would probably be the end of me 

Do GSD's ever attack their owners? I realize I'm asking questions that indicate my own ignorance and stereotypes with this breed, please be patient with me! :curtain:

I understand that GSD's are guard dogs by nature. Golden retrievers aren't. I have never been afraid that Daisy might turn on me, even in moments of confusion or fear. I'm not sure I would have that same comfort level owning a GSD. 

Would it be possible to work through my ignorance and be as confident with a GSD as I am with Daisy? 

LOL, are these stupid questions? :


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## Lisa_and_Willow.

Happy 1/2 birthday Spirit!

Jo, the absolute last dog I would fear is Diesel. Although they will adore the family they will latch onto one person and that person is their world. Unless the dog is incredibly nervy or unbalanced I can't imagine one attacking it's owner. 

They will guard against strangers. Their family is everything to them.

Here is a pic of my boy at 8 weeks. His breeder had a photograher take pics of each pup before they went home and gave all the puppy owners a framed photo!










At 9 weeks.










4 months. It is amazing how the coat changes in sable dogs.


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## Jo Ellen

_Heavy sigh_ 

:heartbeat :heartbeat :heartbeat


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## tintallie

Jo Ellen said:


> Do GSD's ever attack their owners? I realize I'm asking questions that indicate my own ignorance and stereotypes with this breed, please be patient with me! :curtain:
> 
> I understand that GSD's are guard dogs by nature. Golden retrievers aren't. I have never been afraid that Daisy might turn on me, even in moments of confusion or fear. I'm not sure I would have that same comfort level owning a GSD.
> 
> Would it be possible to work through my ignorance and be as confident with a GSD as I am with Daisy?





Lisa_and_Willow. said:


> Although they will adore the family they will latch onto one person and that person is their world. Unless the dog is incredibly nervy or unbalanced I can't imagine one attacking it's owner.
> 
> They will guard against strangers. Their family is everything to them.
> 
> Here is a pic of my boy at 8 weeks. His breeder had a photograher take pics of each pup before they went home and gave all the puppy owners a framed photo!


Miya is completely attached to me, although she is just as happy to see DH when he comes home from work. A dog that has handler aggression either has rank issues (not being a strong enough leader) and/or has poor temperament. Some people prefer their GSD having a lot of fight drive (confidence to continue on the fight even if not in defense), but this is only for the experienced handler. I don't think Miya would turn on me, and every time she greets me, it is with kisses although her pearly white landshark teeth coming at my face was a little un-nerving at first! :curtain: She also is very watchful of others and will walk in between me and strangers if we don't know them.


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## Jo Ellen

For those with GSD's, do you find that when you're out and about with your dog that other people are often afraid or that they avoid you or cross to the other side of the street? 

I love how when I'm out with Daisy, people will be so friendly and want to stop and pet her, give her a treat. I wonder how it would be different with a GSD.


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## HovawartMom

I,so,wish I could own one!.
Love the ones,I met ,were wonderful,goofy and playful!.
ACC abd Diesel'sMom:
yr boys are so very ugly,please,send them,to me!!.


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## AquaClaraCanines

Love your titus siggie!

I never heard of a GSD attacking its owner, but I am sure it has happened. Goldens too.

Mine is a mush and loves everyone. Definitely loves mom best, though.


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## tintallie

Some people will cross the street or not want to pet Miya, but I now prefer that because then I can choose who she socializes with. I really don't like kids running up to her screaming and yelling, "I wanna pet the doggie!" I told one kid that they had to stop moving around and be still for him to pet Miya because he was trying to drive one of those motorized toy Jeeps at her. He refused and I walked away and his dad carried the boy away.


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## LifeOfRiley

Oh my god, Lisa - Diesel really _was_ the cutest GSD puppy ever! _Beyond_ adorable. Thanks for the pictures. 

Jo - Yes, I get that reaction when I'm out with Gunner. When we're out walking around the neighborhood, people generally at least pause when they see him coming. If I tell them that he's friendly or that he won't bother them, some continue to pass, but with caution. Some just cross the street to avoid him. On rare occasion, someone will reach right out to pet him, but that certainly doesn't happen very often! lol.
Now I do get a much better reaction to him when we're in PetSmart or something. I guess people figure that if I've brought him in there, he must be friendly.

As far as a GSD turning on their owner - I'm sure it's happened, but I've never heard of it, personally. Their loyalty is really unsurpassed, so I think they're far less likely than some other breeds to turn any aggression towards "their people." 
I do agree, though, that while they're generally a wonderful family dog, they do tend to bond a little bit more with one particular person. My Alomar was a real good example of that. He loved my mom with every fiber of his being and would have defended her with his life, but when it came right down to it, he was my baby. He absolutely _loved_ my dad. He would go bananas when he came over to visit. Whining, wiggling, licking his whole face... but when my dad would give me a hug before he left, Alomar would get in between us and push him back. Never showed any aggression whatsoever, he just made his point that he didn't like it. Now my mom could hug me and he never paid any attention, but she lived here. She was "his", dad wasn't. As much as he loved my dad, he had boundaries.


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## Jo Ellen

So GSD's do well in a one-owner family as an only dog? A true pack of two? 

Are GSD's good in a dog daycare setting? They do okay in group training classes? 

Haha, one of these days I might run out of questions!


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## LifeOfRiley

Jo Ellen said:


> So GSD's do well in a one-owner family as an only dog? A true pack of two?
> 
> Are GSD's good in a dog daycare setting? They do okay in group training classes?
> 
> Haha, one of these days I might run out of questions!


 
LOL - Questions are a good thing. 

I think a GSD would do just fine in a one-person household. I do think that socialization would become even MORE important in that situation, though. If the vast majority of their time is spent one-on-one with their person, that bond is going to become even stronger and there would be a better chance of them turning into a true "one person dog." My uncle made that mistake with one of the GSDs he had. It got to the point where Buddy would barely tolerate anyone BUT my uncle. (That was the only dog, in my life, that I've honestly been afraid of.) 

From what I've seen, they're great in group training classes. If you work on your bond and their focus, they'll outshine everyone else. 

Can't say how they would do in a doggie daycare setting. I haven't had any experience with that. My aunt does occasionally take hers to daycare and apparently he loves it. Beyond that, I have no idea.


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## AquaClaraCanines

Mine LOVES the dog park, is very good with others. I think he would thrive at doggy daycare, but for reasons entirely unrelated to breed, I'd never ever leave ANY dog of mine at such a facility.

I see them in group classes all the time 

I think the biggest factor is finding parents and puppies with good temperaments.


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## Lisa_and_Willow.

A shepherd would do well in a family of two but like Deni said some GSD's could become too overprotective. 

Diesel is in a training class everyweek. No issues there. I am happy to leave him in a 5-10 minute downstay with about 8 other dogs and leave the room. 

Here he is with some of his classmates on a walk.



















There are no doggie daycares here but much like Jenna I would be uncertain of any of my dogs going to one reguardless of breed. But I see no reason why a GSD couldn't go to one. It all depends on the individual dog.

As for being out and about, yes I have had people cross the road away from Diesel. I had issues when Diesel was just a pup and we made lots of doggy friends at a local park but as soon as he hit about 6 months no one wanted their dogs to play with him. It actually made me go home and cry a few times because there was an agressive dalmatian who would often mount, snarl and *pee on people!* But he was accepted. Just because of Diesel's size and breed he wasn't. 

Other times I am glad about how scary Diesel can look such as when I was followed by two men once when I was out who I could hear saying behind me 'Do you think she has any money?' The other guy said 'I ain't going near that dog.' I kept Diesel at a close heel and the men walked away.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v229/Keeyah/snow/?action=view&current=IMGP2908.flv


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## Ashivon

tintallie said:


> @JoEllen
> 
> One of the most notable Czech German Shepherd Dog kennels is z Pohraniční stráže which was the Czech border patrol government kennel which has been since disbanded. The same bloodlines are being bred by Jiri Novotny who was also directing the breeding program at z PS. More information about the Czech dogs can be found at http://jinopo.cz/main.php?lg=en
> 
> Some of the best known working line dogs have dogs like Titus z PS (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/108942.html) and Norbo Ben-Ju (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/409047.html) are Czech dogs.
> 
> For years, I thought a retriever was the right breed for me and later on when the crime increased in my city, I had to think about what I really wanted in a dog a bit more. I actually don't like strange people approaching me to pet my dog without permission and I don't like kids who run at my dog and try to pet my dog either. So my own personal aloofness matches the GSD. You could always try contacting some GSD breeders near you to see if their temperament, personality, energy level match yours. Here is a breeder directory from the United Schutzhund Clubs of America (UScA): http://germanshepherddog.com/breed/KennelList.htm


Beautiful dogs.... !

But living in New york, I never had a problem with kids trying to pet my other sheps, even unasked. Guys who were drinking, on something they could smell a mile away, and they'd better stay that far from us.


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## Willow52

My daughter's fiance has a GSD. He's the sweetest, big lug you've ever met. Hank and his brother climb all over him, my granddaughter plays with him and he minds beautifully.

His dad is a huge junkyard dog and the mom has HD, so I'm not sure of the whys or wheres as to the breeding, questionable I'm sure. But that's not the topic here.


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## LifeOfRiley

Ashivon said:


> Beautiful dogs.... !
> 
> Guys who were drinking, on something they could smell a mile away, and they'd better stay that far from us.


It's funny, but that's the one time in seven years that I've seen Gunner act genuinely protective. When we're out and about, he's (for me) the perfect balance between aloof and friendly. 

But one night when we were out walking, we encountered a guy who, I assume, was in the neighborhood doing some landscaping. It seemed like he'd been drinking and, for whatever reason, Gunner didn't like it. He positioned himself in front of me and stared the guy down, growling at him. Since I'd never seen him behave that way before, I thought maybe it was the alcohol. It would be an unfamiliar smell to Gun. Or maybe his actions and body language were a little "off" because of the alcohol and it was just enough to put Gunner on guard. Whatever the case, I was happy to see it.


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## AquaClaraCanines

There is a dog walker at the dog park I frequent. He brings a sweet Golden every day. On the weekends, her owners bring her, and we're good dog park chat buddies. The dog walker is a man they pay to take her on weekdays. I think taking someone else's dog to the dog park without the owner present is beyond stupidity, but that's not the point. The point is that this man is clearly a staggering drunk. My dogs don't like him. He's rude, obnoxious, and creepy. I wonder if they know their dog walker is ****-faced, and I wonder if I should tell them? 

Sorry to hijack my own thread, but that made me think of it.


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## LifeOfRiley

AquaClaraCanines said:


> There is a dog walker at the dog park I frequent. He brings a sweet Golden every day. On the weekends, her owners bring her, and we're good dog park chat buddies. The dog walker is a man they pay to take her on weekdays. I think taking someone else's dog to the dog park without the owner present is beyond stupidity, but that's not the point. The point is that this man is clearly a staggering drunk. My dogs don't like him. He's rude, obnoxious, and creepy. I wonder if they know their dog walker is ****-faced, and I wonder if I should tell them?
> 
> Sorry to hijack my own thread, but that made me think of it.


Yikes. That's a tough one. I would probably mention it. If you're friendly with them, you could probably find a subtle way to work it into a conversation. At least just enough to gauge their reaction, ya know? Then take it from there.
It could be a sticky situation, though. I mean, if the guy is that much of a drunk, it's hard to imagine that they don't know.


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## Ashivon

LifeOfRiley said:


> Yikes. That's a tough one. I would probably mention it. If you're friendly with them, you could probably find a subtle way to work it into a conversation. At least just enough to gauge their reaction, ya know? Then take it from there.
> It could be a sticky situation, though. I mean, if the guy is that much of a drunk, it's hard to imagine that they don't know.


If he's really that bad mabye you can take (discreetly on the DL ) a quick video with your camera. Perhaps on the pretext of taking videos of the dogs. Then you could say "I was taking video of the dogs and I noticed this .........., since we're friends I thought you should know."
That way it's not hearsay.:curtain:


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## HoldensMom

It's funny how many of us had GSDs growing up. This was my first and only childhood dog. I have loved GSDs every since I can remember (I used to watch shows like Rin-tin-tin and K9 obsessively). Whoever mentioned their dog chewing and carrying on rocks, that was my Rocky. Not a good line, since my parents picked him up from a couple who lived out in the country and had never raised puppies before. He was a sweetie though, and always gave lots of kisses. And man was that dog smart, but definitely head-strong too. The only thing I can think of that made him more of the "nervous" type was that around the age of 6 or so he developed storm phobia. I've seen dogs that whimper and will run over to cuddle with you when they hear thunder, but this dog would literally go nuts and often he would hurt himself in the process. It was so bad that we had to give him valium before a storm. I loved that dog. He died while I was in college at the age of 10, from what we think was an infection. He started limping on his left front leg, and within a week had passed. Tons of tests were done, but nothing conclusive and we opted not to do an autopsy. I remember that is one of the few times I've ever seen my dad cry.


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