# need help on hyper behavior + not eating problem



## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Welcome to the forums, Jenhys. You've come to the right place for advice, as the people here know what they are talking about.

As far as the hyper behavior....without knowing more, I'd guess he's just not getting enough exercise. Goldens need a lot of exercise. How much exercise is he getting now? 

With the eating....I'm not sure about that. How much food are you giving him?

By the way, are you in Vancouver BC? Or Vancouver, WA?

Rick


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## jenhys (Jan 9, 2006)

thank you for your reply! I live in vancouver BC.

Yes i realize big dogs need alot of exercises. Because rocky pee and poo outside, we walk him 3 times a day and each time around 5 to 10 minutes only depending on the weather. We sometimes walk him to the field and just let him run around and play ball catching with him. But it's a headache everytime walking him. it will be fine if there's no one on the street despite that he pulls when he sees new things or when he wants to pee poo. When there is other people around, its hard to calm him down. 

we feed rocky 2.5 cups each time and 2 times a day, which is what is said on the bag. is it the right amount?

also, he always makes a dolphin voice/sound when he wants attention. is this a sound that a normal golden retriever makes? 

when i'm playing with him, he always try using his mouth to bite my hands. but when he got my hands, he licks my hands. this is why i think he knows what is allow to do and what is not, but he sometimes cannot control himself. do you think this will get better as he grow up?

=) thanks!


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

I'm sure you'll get more feedback tomorrow, once people get back on the board, and I'm pretty new to this....all I have is the book knowledge...I read so many books before we got Samson.

I think some of the behavior stuff is just that he's not getting enough exercise. I understand the weather, since I'm down here by Seattle, I think we probably get a lot of the same weather, except that you're probably a little colder. I'd continue walking him, but maybe spend time playing fetch (or hide and seek, as I've seen others mention here) inside. We have a few different toys that we will spend a lot of time just tossing it down the hall and Samson fetches. It burns off a lot of energy for him, when we can't walk him as much as he needs.

A lot of behavior issues are just caused by boredom or lack of exercise. So I think that can help you with that.

I'm really not sure about the food. Hopefully, someone else can help you out with that. Maybe try feeding him less, so that he's feeling more hungry at feeding times. I don't think you're feeding him too much though. Samson will scarf down anything I give him, so that's something we haven't experienced yet. And I don't recall it from any of the books I've read.

Watch the board tomorrow. I'm sure there'll be others with good advice for you. There's people who have been living with Goldens for years and years and their experience will help you much more than mine will.

Rick


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Oh....and the reason I asked which Vancouver is that I grew up in Vancouver, Washington.....

Rick


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## LauraEyes2 (Sep 16, 2005)

I'm going to back up the others on the notion that more exercise might help you out a lot. Unfortunately with goldens a few 5 minute walks every day often just don't cut it. See if there's a local dog park that you can go to for extra exercise or maybe dedicated 20 minutes in the yard each day to playing fetch and some good running time. Often goldens do "calm down" as time progresses and some even turn into couch potatoes, but it all depends on the dog. Many act like puppies till the lie in their deathbeds! 

Another thing to do would be get involved with obedience/agility training. That gives the dog a "job" as well as teach them the act of "listening" to you. The fact that he becomes uncontrollable with guests leads me to believe that he doesnt think he needs to listen to you. Maybe a personal one-on-one obedience trainer would be more curtailed to your needs.

As for the food, I would completely stop feeding with a spoon. That sounds more like he's training you. Dogs are animals and will eat when they're hungry unless there's a medical problem at stake, which i don't think is the case. You may wish to try feeding him in his crate assuming he's crate-trained. My 7 mo old pup (I think he has puppy ADD!) gets distracted from his food and doesn't sit and eat his food straight through, rather decides to play with his toys, seek attention from me, etc. But when he's in his crate he sits and scarfs his food down. Set up a feeding schedule and only feed him in his cage. That way he doesn't get distracted by other stuff. Everything's exciting for the little guys, they don't want to miss out by eating! If he doesnt eat all his food in like 30 mins in his crate, let him out and take the food up until then next feeding time. That way he gets on a schedule. Just my 2 cents. Good luck. Goldens are WONDERFUL dogs as anyone on this board will tell you, but they can sometimes make you want to rip your hair out when they're in the younger years!


Laura


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Have you thought of taking him to a trainer? Ours told us the goldens need atleast 2 30 -45 min walk a day, plus toy exercise. Maggie (5 months) liked to jump alot, the trainer told us to let her run around the house with the leash on and to give her a pop with the leash everytime she jumped,(he goes by the 1.5 sec rule) if you dont catch him doing that 1.5 then dont punish him...same thing with the leash, when pulling. After 2 lessons what a difference when walking maggie.


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## paprika (Jan 9, 2006)

first of all, i'm sorry about my english ; i'm french 

You're dog is only 10 months. he's young and don't know really how to restrain his emotions. 

But it's not a reason to let him doing what he wants. He must know that you are the boss. If he walks too quickly, you can buy what we call here a strangler collar, it's chain ; if the dog pull too hard, the chain curls up and the dog has to slow down. With such a chain, the dog learns to walk near you.

In France, the dogs buyed in pet-stores often have comportmental problems, because they have not been well socialize and have often been separate too young from there mother. I think that you should be very firm with him, show him where is his place in your family hierarchy (the last) : he soulh eat after all, accept that you maintain him on his back, etc., but be comprehensive


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

paprika said:


> If he walks too quickly, you can buy what we call here a strangler collar, it's chain ; if the dog pull too hard, the chain curls up and the dog has to slow down. With such a chain, the dog learns to walk near you.


We call that a "choke" chain and I use it for Lucky. It offers a bit more control for me but isn't hugely different then a leash on a regular collar. That added bit is very much appreciated when we walk. 
But I have the same problem as Jenhys when it comes to new people who want to pet him. Lucky doesn't realize or care that he's on a choke chain as he is trying to maul people with his joy. His mouth, jumping and claws are a big issue. He is entirely out of control with new people especially in the outside environment.
Yesterday a neigbor who should know by now that Lucky isn't exactly "pettable" came up again and tried to pet him. As she approached I told her that he still wasn't really petable and I haven't trained him yet in this situation. She came up anyway and I pulled Lucky back as he attempted to jump on her in his excitement and she was scratched. She was upset. Did I ask her to come up? Did I not TELL HER? 
So after that incident I read Jenhy's post and I too am interested in some strategies for new people, guests and the like.


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## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

paprika said:


> If he walks too quickly, you can buy what we call here a strangler collar, it's chain ; if the dog pull too hard, the chain curls up and the dog has to slow down. With such a chain, the dog learns to walk near you.


Choke collar. Do Not use this type of collar. They can be very damaging to a dog. I prefer a Gentle Leader which works very well without damaging the dog. 

pet store dogs could have problems because of lack of socialization and because pet stores are just nasty awful places for any dog to grow up. I personnaly won't even walk into a petstore that sells animals.

The peeing when new people come is normal, it will usually go away. It is a submissive peeing and is not to be corrected.

The rest of your problems are obedience related. he needs structure and obedience. I suggest classes.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

timberwolfe said:


> Choke collar. Do Not use this type of collar. They can be very damaging to a dog.


How can this be damaging? I really do want to know. 

The reason why I like it is because it is a more sensitive collar. He doesn't "choke" on it but responds to its more sensative manuvering. The only actual "choking" I've noticed is if he really balks to the point of gagging and I realize there is problem that needs figuring out.(burr in foot for instance.) On a regular leash (which I used when he was young) I kept moving him right along with a burr in his foot, not realizing that he wasn't being "disobedient" but in pain. When a dog is willing to gag rather then go, then you know their is a problem. In other words, actual choking almost never happens, is a microsecond in length and denotes a problem that is not with the dog.

Let me know what you know Timberwolfe, I certainly don't want to hurt my dog if there is a history of damage with this collar.


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## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

Dogs have been known to get severe throat damage. larnyx I think being crushed, but I can't remember the exact damage. But I have heard it happening too many times for it not to be true.

I will try to find the exact damage that is done.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

I'll do some research on it myself and see what I come up with. I've looked at the Gentle leaders....so expensive and I didn't know much about them. So I'll do a looksee into this.


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## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

Information is from a PETA sight, which is not always reliable, but here is a list of damage:

Injuries caused by choke collars:

*	Dislocation and/or fracture of the vertebrae

*	Intervertebral disc protusion

*	Fainting

*	Partial or complete paralysis of the fore and or hind limbs dueto spinal cord injuries

*	Damage to the vagus nerve thus affecting function of majororgans such as the heart, lungs, liver, bladder, spleen,kidneys,etc.

*	Crushing of the trachea with partial or complete asphyxiation

*	Crushing of and sometimes fracture of the bones in the larynx

*	Brusing of the esophagus

*	Sharp increases in pressure in the head which can cause brain oreye damage and sometimes prolapse of the eye

I found the gentle leader worked very well with us. it took a while for Clancy to get used to the collar, but it works without use of force.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

I will take a serious look into this. Peta isn't on my list as a reliable source. But its definately worth looking into.


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## LauraEyes2 (Sep 16, 2005)

CHOKE CHAINS: e.g. the "slip knot" or "noose" -like appearance are more damaging. they apply excessive pressure on the trachea and larynx which is what are the typical problems observed. The times when they are most dangerous are with dogs who still pull constantly and literally choke themselves or when used improperly, excessive pulling etc. 

PRONG COLLARS: while the harshest looking of any training collar, uses prongs to come down and apply direct pressure at several places around the neck, rather than simply strangle the dog. These collars usually warrant a quicker response and have been shown to cause far less incidence of problems and injuries, even moreso when used properly. 

GENTLE LEADERS: or head-collars, look more like the halter that woudl be used to lead a horse or a cow, and work applying pressure to the head and mouth, rather than to the neck. Many people prefer to use these as they feel they are less dangerous.


The best method to use definitely depends on your individual pet and how they respond to the training tool. If unsure, consult a reputable trainer who can better assess the best method and train YOU in the proper way to use the collar. Most collars are safe when used properly, it is when they are used incorrectly or abused where the most danger occurs. If you have further concerns of the safety, I would recommend consulting your veterinarian, and not PETA.


Laura


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## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

Ya, I would have liked to find another source, but in this case i think it is accurate. Or at least partially accurate.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Just a few quicky remarks here...
Choke collars can cause major injury to trachea (collapse) and spinal (nerve and alignment damage) when used improperly. Choke collars are made to only ever be momentarily tightened and then immediately released (as in a quick collar jerk)... the instant release ability of this type of collar is dependant upon the collar being correctly installed. The damage happens when the dog is allowed a constant pull or when not installed correctly the collar doesn't immediately release. The collar must be install in the correct orientation and always be positioned up high on the dog's neck to be effective. It is only to ever be used in a quick 'jerk and release' fashion, anything else is dangerous to your dog's neck. Better and safer alternatives to the standard choke chain collar is what's called a 'limited-slip collar' (sled-dogs wear these) or even a 'Martingale collar' (Greyhounds wear these). Regardless of collar type, wider collars are safer and more comfortable than thin collars... very thin choke collars can be very dangerous indeed.


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## mblondetoo (Jan 9, 2006)

Our new dog Tabitha is a total wild child! She wakes up wanting to play. We are very lucky to have a huge fenced yard, 18 acres of trails and plenty of time to cater to this young girl or we wouldn't have gotten her. In the two weeks (almost) that we have had her we have found that she needs at least two 30 min. walks in the woods, playtimes outside throughout the day, some playtimes inside (discouraging running games due to hardwood floors and cats). Then she can be a lot of fun.

When our dog Abbey was young, we were still in our old house without a big yard so we became creative and used carpeted steps to play on. She would run up and down, slide on her belly, rough house and just wear herself out. Then she was able to have some sense and listen. A lot of the bad behaviour
is a ploy for attention. I agree with others that school would help your dog. Not all schools are good with their methods so look around and talk to people in dog clubs. You may even be able to find a trainer who can come to the house and help. It's worth it.

Tabitha is going to her first night of school. The preferred collar is the chain choke collar or less severe, easy lead (I think that's the name).Meeting her at the rescue I also used a prong collar on her because she was so bad on a walk. I have used choke collars before in classes and if you know how to put them on properly and use them right, they are wonderful. But, in the wrong hands or even the wrong dog, they can do damage. Our sweet dog Abbey became a bit "forgetful of training" in her senior years and started to pull on her walks. More than anything it was to drag her out of a woodpile or to stop her from pulling on roots. Wrong move on our part to use the choker. She gagged and hacked for hours after her walks. We realized what was going on and purchased a custom harness and used it for walks and never again had trouble with the coughing or pulling. We also have one for Tabitha but will start with the choker for class and a harness for walks. Good luck.


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## jenhys (Jan 9, 2006)

thank you for all of the valuable advices!

starting tonight i will try the feeding method Laura suggested and see how rocky does. 

my family and i will try to take rocky outside more. my backyard is not big. and only 1/3 of the yard is grass. In the summer, we usually just let him jump around in the backyard, not to mention he ate all my mom's roses. But in the winter, we dont want to let him out to the yard because the grass is so wet, soil not firm, rocky digs and scratch and kill the whole grass land and he gets really muddy and dirty. so in the winter he's inside the house most of the time. 

also, rocky doesn't pull when i practice walking him in the house. he is so patience, he sit-stay when i put the leash on. but when he goes outside, you know what happen... i'm not sure about any types of collars except the Choke dog collar we got him, maybe this one is one of the ones some of you mentioned. I will find out more later. we thought that this leash hurts rocky alot. and the reason my family didn't think of getting another one is because we think rocky does not care if the leash is hurting him. 

my brother may think about bringing rocky to obedience class later. Cuz last time the class did not help much, maybe hiring a personal trainer is the right way for him. does anyone has experience in having a trainer come to your house and train doggys? how expensive and around how many sessions and how often? 

Thanks again for all you guys help and thanks for tolerating my bad english writing too =)


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

jenhys....glad you got lots of advice. Just work on it. In the long run, it'll be worth it....

Rick


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Keep us informed of how things are going. I've learned much from this thread and my focused goal is to get Lucky's out of control behavior with new people dealt with. I'd be very interested in seeing how things are going for you.
Cyndi


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## paprika (Jan 9, 2006)

Obedience class is a very good idea. It's very usefull for dogs and masters (is it the right word ?).

Do not forget that your dog is a teen, so he acts as a teen (want to see where the limits are, reapraisal of your authority, etc.).

What you are saying about the choke collar is very interessant. I can imagine that damage may happen if it's not well used. But don't forget that dogs are not like us ; they've got a muscle ahead the neck that protects the trachea... If it's well used, no problem could occur (i personnally use it every day to go to the river with my Vanille, who's always excitated when she understands where we go... She does not see any problem to slip on the collar)


Tell me : di you understand what i'm saying as a french and not fluent in english ?


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

paprika said:


> Tell me : di you understand what i'm saying as a french and not fluent in english ?


Yes. Your english is fine. I couldn't even make an attempt at French, which is a little embarrassing to say...

Rick


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## paprika (Jan 9, 2006)

ty


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## tite louloute (Jan 9, 2006)

i'm agree with paprika. I use choke collars on my 3 dogs and if this type of collar is well used there's no pb. First the dog is not so silly and understands quite quickly where is its interest and then i think that if this collar was damageable fot dogs it would not be sold for a long time and would not be recommanded by breeders.


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## LauraEyes2 (Sep 16, 2005)

I think the key is PROPER use. I use prong collars with my dogs for training and they respond well to that and learn their limits quickly. First time users should have a trainer/breeder/veterinarian show them the proper positioning and manner of use for any choke collars to ensure they aren't using it in a harmful manner. When used properly, training collars of any type are safe and effective--but improper use-even of a gentle leader-can cause harmful effects to the dog. 

Laura


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## tite louloute (Jan 9, 2006)

LauraEyes2 said:


> I think the key is PROPER use. I use prong collars with my dogs for training and they respond well to that and learn their limits quickly. First time users should have a trainer/breeder/veterinarian show them the proper positioning and manner of use for any choke collars to ensure they aren't using it in a harmful manner. When used properly, training collars of any type are safe and effective--but improper use-even of a gentle leader-can cause harmful effects to the dog.
> Laura


exactly what i think with the right words ! thanks Laura !


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## timberwolfe (Apr 15, 2005)

Yes, but it is a lot easier to misuse a choke collar than a gentle leader. How many times have you seen a dog leading its owner down the street straining on a choke collar and hardly able to breath? 

Plus I don't use collar popping as a training method, so a choke collar has no use in my training methods. Even out vet won't sell them anymore.


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## krbshappy71 (Dec 30, 2005)

I love the Gentle Leader, please consider purchasing one. I could not handle our lab without it, she walks right along side me now, and I have the peace of mind that comes with knowing if another dog comes up I will have control of her. (she is the type to whine, put her hair up, growl, wimper, and desperately try to get to the other dog) I plan to use it with my retriever when she gets a bit older. (we haven't worked on walks yet)

If you have stairs in your house, we play fetch with the dogs by throwing it down the stairs, it wears them out faster. We also change the direction that we throw the ball (in the house, yes, my mother would cringe) which I feel keeps the dogs mentally challenged instead of just being a robot fetching a ball. Its a guessing game as well as exercise. Hide and Seek a toy is fun too, if you can get him to sit and stay in another room and hide yourself, even better. Sorry you have having trouble with your dog, but it does sound like things that can be corrected. Best of luck!


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

I'm gonna have to check the Gentle Leader collars, since I don't even know what that means.....

Samson has actually figured out how to play fetch by himself on the stairs. He takes his ball to the top and rolls it down himself, then chases it. Funny how he can spend so much time doing that, by himself.

Rick


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## jenhys (Jan 9, 2006)

so far, rocky is still not really eating but improving..

i put the food in his crate
he sit-down in his crate and squeal like dolphins..
(im not sure if the word "squeal" is right")
when i walk close to him, he starts eating and when i go away he starts squealing again. i take away the food and he continue on squealing so i think he wants to eat. so i brought the food bak and locked the food in the cage for 5 minutes. when i open the cage, i said "go". he starts eating. i go away, he continues and finishes the food.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Sounds like some progress is being made.... I'd keep working on it. He'll catch on.


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## tmsarraz (Jan 27, 2008)

One of our 2 goldens would pull on her leash as well. We put her in obedience, and they put the spike training collar on her. I cried at first thinking this would hurt her to bad. But because of her thick hair around her neck they said this would work better then the normal choke chain. So when she would pull, I would give the chain a slight jerk, and she would back off. After a season of the obedience she walks beautiful now. In fact I can walk both goldens at the same time with no problems. ( The other golden thank Goodness never had pulled on her leash, and also took first place in her obedience class.) Also when she jumps we were told to bring our knee up so it lightly pushed against her chest, It also took care of the jumping. ( Not hard enough to hurt her, just enough to let her know she isnt supposed to be jumping. I know it all sounds cruel and inhumane, but it worked well and they are well behaved today.


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## Marie Welch (Jan 25, 2008)

Not sure I have advice but I will tell you our experiences. Bonnie is almost 7 months old. She is very much like you describe. We know she needs more exercise but we are seniors and with the cold weather she doesn't get enough. Also, our yard is not fenced. We have her out at least 8 or 10 times a day and walk about 300 yards to the end of our property. We also take her to his game club property which is in a remote area and let her run when possible. We have never tried a dog park but I hear they are good.

We have had 2 weeks training at Petsmart and she is learning her commands very well and she is settling down. She also likes to bite gently or lick which we don't allow. 

Feeding is no problem.

My suggestion would be to try to get into a training class of some sort.

Another thing you might want to try for walking is a Gentle Leader Easy Walk harness. We saw them in use at Goldstock last year and they are wonderful. You can take a dog that is very hard to handle, put one of those on and they walk perfectly. We got one for Bonnie but she is just a little small for it yet. Her shoulders need to grow into it but she would have outgrown the medium too quickly. There are two types, one that goes around the muzzle like a lot of service dogs wear or just the one that goes around the chest and legs. We didn't want the one around the muzzle. You can get them at pet supply stores or online.

Good luck.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Hi there and welcome! You have gotten some excellent advice here. Just work on it and you'll begin to see a difference in Rocky. Sounds to me as if he has YOU trained just a little!:

I totally agree on the choke collars. They can do horrible damage to the dogs trachea if you are not a professional. The prong collars are much gentler even though they look awful. Prong collars work better than choke collars do too. Definitely look into the Gentle Leader too, they are great.

As for jumping on people, you can try this. Get a squirt bottle and put the water spray on stream. Fill the bottle with water and add a tablespoon or so of apple cider vinegar. When Rocky jumps squirt him in the face (careful of his eyes) and say NO JUMP! Make sure you squirt him as he is jumping - not just before or after. Most dogs hate this and it will stop them pretty quick. Then tell him to sit and as soon as his butt hits the floor in a sit position tell him good dog and give him a treat! Have a friend come in so you can practice this over and over. When the doorbell rings and Rocky runs to the door tell him to sit before you open the door. Have the squirt bottle with you or close so you can grab it quickly. Open the door and if he continues to sit, treat him. If he tries to jump on the person squirt him. Keep practicing this until he automatically sits when the door bell rings and doesn't try to jump on the person.

He needs lots more exercise that a 5 minute walk several times a day. It is cold where you are, I know so throwing the ball up and down the stairs is great exercise. When its nicer out I would take him for really long walks with a prong collar or gentle leader so he cannot pull you. You have to teach him you are the alpha and he must walk at your side. If he pulls ahead of you stop cold in your tracks so he can't go any further. When he returns to your side then start walking again. This will teach him that he gets to walk when he is at your side and when he leaves you side he has to stop. Get him enrolled in a good basic obedience calss too

Good luck

Jazzys mom


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