# Newbie owner handling



## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I'm considering handling Jack myself in a few shows when he's old enough and looking more put together - right now his residual puppy fluff and teething have him looking like a hot mess!  We'd like to wait to spend the money on a professional handler until after he has his clearances, or at least prelims, and so we can wait to see how he turns out. Our breeder has waited on showing a male from this same line until he was 18 months because he wasn't completely matured, but Jack's sire finished his champion before he was 2...so who knows how Jack will fare.

Do those of you who are involved in conformation think it's worth it for me to try to handle Jack on my own while he's still young or is it a waste of time? I know it's extremely competitive and very uncommon for a judge to put up a puppy against other more mature dogs, but I'm not really in it to put points on him at this stage. Of course it would be nice (who doesn't like to win!?) but I'm not expecting it at ALL - especially if I'm going toe to toe with professional handlers. I'm planning to go to a handling class at a local kennel club to learn the ropes and see how that goes but wanted to get some additional opinions on the issue.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I am very curious about this too, and wondering some similar things.


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## Doolin (Jun 23, 2008)

I would say after taking classes it would be definitely worth it to go out and have some fun. It will give him good experience in the ring and help him in the future, if he learns to have fun there.

I will caution against trying too hard... dogs can feel pressure. Take everything in as an adventure and along the way you will get good advice from judges and handlers alike! 

I loved showing my first conformation dog. I will admit I was a bit nervous, but you get over it and realize how much fun it is to just be out there with your dog and watch him learn new tricks along the way...


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

I will clarify this--I am a newbie--but I think positive ring experiences for a young dog are really important. And if you can do it yourself, then you will save the expense of the handler. I took mine to one at six months and here is the advice I got:

* go for just one day, or do every other day. You don't want to burn out
* Make it FUN!!
* It is an excellent place for socialization. Scout got to meet so many people and so many strange dogs
* Do it under a judge who is good with puppies

Scout went for just a day and had a blast. Granted, she was naughty in the ring wanting to play with the dogs 'chasing' her but she had fun. Mission was accomplished. I would much rather have a dog that is slightly naughty but had fun, then one who is well-behaved but hates it.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I think I will be nervous, but I know I'll have at least a couple people there in my corner so I won't feel totally out of place. I just want to have it be a good experience for both of us so I'll have to focus on being there just for that - for the experience. I think the key will be working with him once we start the classes. He's good at standing in a somewhat stacked position but not so good at staying in that position....he's much more interested in the treat than standing still. Although I'm sure that's common for pups his age. Plus, like I mentioned, he's looking a bit silly these days (but still SO cute) so this stage will need to pass prior to entering any shows. 

My other question is with grooming. My breeder recommended the Erik Strickland DVD set for me to learn how to groom. Is that pretty much the go-to guy for golden grooming?


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

As an aside, we just settled on Jack's AKC name and finally sent in the paperwork. It's Scotts24kJackJackittyJack. We went back and forth on whether it was too silly sounding, but we call him Jack Jackitty Jack all the time so it works for him! (As I'm sure you figured out, Scotts 24k is the kennel name.) At least it'll be memorable! haha


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

If you can keep the mindset that you're not in there yet to win, just for the experience, I think it's a great idea. 

If, on the other hand, you know you're the type of person that, once you get in there, you will decide that you need to show every one else up and win this thing, then I would hold off until you're both really ready.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Ha! Love the name, it is very cute! I have hear Erik Strickland DVD is good, but I went with the Deb Oster one which had also been recommended before.


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## Goldnbear (Dec 28, 2009)

Do it! You might find you like it so well you want to continue doing it and save yourself some money in handling fees. You may end up being very good at showcasing little Jack, you won't know until you've tried! I agree to get him accustomed to the sites and sounds of the shows before he is 2 and the ring as well. As long as it is done under controlled, comfortable circumstances, you don't have anything to loose and everything to gain! Enjoy it!


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## jmc (Sep 16, 2009)

I agree with the sentiment of just going out there and having fun with your puppy. I have the Erik Strickland DVD and highly recommend it. he's very generous with sharing his knowledge about grooming and also I like how he explains the breed std when grooming so you groom to the std.
Good luck with your pup!


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

jmc said:


> I agree with the sentiment of just going out there and having fun with your puppy. I have the Erik Strickland DVD and highly recommend it. he's very generous with sharing his knowledge about grooming and also I like how he explains the breed std when grooming so you groom to the std.
> Good luck with your pup!


I also have the Erik Strickland DVD and was fortunate enough to attend a two day grooming and handling seminar that he conducted here in South Florida--two big Golden Retriever paws up!!!!

Yes to the DVD.
If you can attend one of his seminars if he's in the area, I also recommend that--well worth the $$$$--he is entertaining and you will learn so much.
If you can afford his intermediate set of grooming shears I also recommend them. I purchased them and my friends who owner/handle and owner/breeder/handle were always borrowing them from me and they went out and bought some too later on! He has nice products.

As to showing your own pup, if you think you can go out there and make it a nice experience for your pup, by all means, have a great time and do it yourself! FWIW, the pups here in South Florida, for the most part, are owner/breeder/handled and rarely have I seen them act up in the ring--very mature for their ages--very well trained!

Because of that, and since it takes me forever (still) to stack, I had my pup with a handler who I trusted completely to show her a great time, win or lose. For me, the extra price was worth it because I felt my frustration would only travel to the end of the lead and it would not be a good experience for either of us. I'm happy with my decision--Mac is now 22 months and she is maturing slowly but has taken a Reserve under a very well respected breeder judge. She is happy about going to shows (we only go to local shows) and she is happy in the ring.

I'm sure that as I progress I'll eventually feel comfortable about handling her--I continue to take her to matches and we have fun together but maybe I'm too tough on myself--I've handled my veterans (now deceased) at specialties and had a blast--but these AKC shows--even for the experience, at least for me, right now, I prefer a handler. Hope this info helps.


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## Retrieverlover (Feb 8, 2010)

Tattle and I are new to handling too and I am very thankful that I can take her to handling class once a week. She loves going there eventhough she thinks it's a social event and not "work". But that's okay - it's all about having fun!


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Thanks for all the input! While I'm sure it'd be nice to win, I doubt we will so I'm sure it'll just be for the experience. Who knows though, I may be great at handling - it can be my second calling! haha I think my downfall will be the grooming though, so I need to start working on that asap. 

I'm taking Jack to a local show next weekend to start getting him used to the sights and sounds and to watch our breeder friend compete with her two dogs. We're also going to another semi-local show in about a month with our breeder and are planning to go to one in July. Hopefully he'll have fun there. 

I think I'm going to start going to the handling class in a couple of weeks. It's a drop-in style class so we can go whenever. It can't hurt, right? Do most handling classes only work with older or experienced dogs? Will they be annoyed that I don't know anything and have my silly puppy there?


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

The handling class I go to is mostly puppies! Breeders bring their 1st and 2nd pick male and females and take turns with their friends going around the rings. It's pretty cool! Mac was amongst the babies and now she's part of the older set--it's great for her because she learns that puppies are fun and the breeders get their pups out and about with different dogs and teach them to respect their elders.

Tonight we have handling class and I know of someone who is bringing her "veteran" to practice since some of the shows are having a veterans class for the older dogs. So we'll have a 10 year old out there!

Usually, where I go, the obedience drill, drop in class is held at the same time, and the woman who is in charge of the overall program will allow you to split--30 minutes obedience drill, 30 minutes conformation. It's loads of fun!


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

The weekly handling class I go to is mostly composed of young green dogs. It is a great place to play with them and do a few things. It helps a lot to have a 'judge' to practice going over them. Mine has been a horrible wiggle butt, but she is getting better.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Oh good! That was my fear, that I'd show up with my wiggly Jack and everyone would be looking at us like "why is this crazy puppy here???" Our breeder friend who lives near us said she'd maybe like to go to the class with me and take her 7 month old bitch (Jack's current BFF when he goes to her house) since she's just started entering her in shows. So that would probably be less uncomfortable for me to have someone we know there. 

I'm not usually hesitant about new experiences, but in a hobby that I know is extremely competitive I don't want to start off on the wrong foot with anyone - if that makes sense. I also want to make sure we learn everything the right way the first time.


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## hvgoldens4 (Nov 25, 2009)

As far as showing your own puppy goes in the puppy classes goes, GO FOR IT!!! We all have to start somewhere) As the saying goes, the mighty oak was once a little nut! lol I started in goldens doing competitive obedience and when I got a "show dog" and told everyone I was going to show the dog myself, they all said I was nuts. It wasn't going to happen. I wouldn't be able to do it. Goldens were too competitive. Well, that was many CH's ago that I can say that I have finished all myself) 

The puppy classes, as I see them, are for getting the puppies out and getting them socialized and getting their feet wet as far as what they are supposed to be doing and what dog shows are all about and the atomosphere. There isn't any sense in paying big bucks for a pro to do this when most times a puppy isn't going to be hugely competitive unless it is small shows and the pros are also still going to be carrying other dogs on their strings so the chances are still good that their older, more experienced dogs are going to win. Puppies are always a humbling experience because they are babues and are going to act that way!

Go to some puppy classes, some handling classes-HAVE FUN with your puppy and then enter some shows and you may find you like it and decide you want to be an OWNER HANDLER!!)


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I would really like to be the person that shows Jack if I can do it. I know it's unlikely that this will be my random talent, but who knows! 

In your experience have you found that the dogs handled by the professional handlers win because they show the best that day or because the judges know who the handlers are? I've heard both sides but I'm wondering how prevalent the "political" game is going to be?


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

I was just talking to my handler about that last night.

The handlers, overall, do a wonderful job of presentation. The dogs are well-trained and groomed. Because the handlers are at the shows, they also know which judges will like a certain "style" or "type" or which ones are more forgiving of certain traits, and which traits are their hot buttons and that they hone in on. The amateur doesn't normally get involved in that much research--although I've seen some very good owner/handlers that do.

Several years ago, when my second golden was being shown, my husband would come to the shows to take pictures. He loves photography and he not only took photos of our golden, but of all the goldens in the ring--we would come home and relive the day and see the dogs and handlers all over again--but frozen as stills, for us to critique. He knows less than I do about structure and gait, but he would point to a golden and say "wow! that one is impressive!" and I would match the armband of the handler and the catalog and say "good eye--Winners Dog" or "not bad--Reserve Winners Bitch." One day he pointed to two goldens and said--"these two are nice looking" and he had chosen Winners and Reserve.

What we saw was that some dogs asked for the win--some handlers asked for the win--some handlers fumbled with their dogs--some dogs fumbled--and a combination of all seemed to happen at times. But the ones who kept their cool consistently were the pros--and they were able to make their charges look like pros too.

I've seen people at shows take photos/videotape the performance of their dog. That's fine. But also take photos of the competition--you will learn wonders--and it will stop a lot of the griping that goes on.

I also believe that if a judge is perceived as unfair, that word will get out and people won't enter under him or her. 

But looking at it from the other side, the judge has got to judge what they see. If a dog is not presented to its best potential, they can only judge what is before them. I've been fortunate enough to speak with several judges as show chair and/or assistant show chair for the local golden club--they love it, and they love the opportunity to find the best dogs and bitches.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

I was lucky with my younger dog because I had Murphy out already - Teller got carted around to shows when he was as young as 9 weeks! I had him at Hudson Valley's specialty and just kept handing him off to random people - then did the same at Syracuse the following week. He got to go as a tourist and I got to save some cash by not entering a puppy 

If you have the time and desire to get out there and make a positive experience for him - do so. Take him to classes, take him to matches and small shows (get an idea of those judges and how they handle puppies though beforehand) - have fun, go for the mileage and enjoy the ride (and puppyhood).

Erica


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Do you guys have any advice for when I take Jack to his first show next weekend to watch his girlfriends compete? I know those extend-a-leash things are not allowed, right? I've also heard that people keep their dogs away from each other. Any other rules, customs, practices I should know? 

Should I attempt to groom him so he looks somewhat presentable for the show even though he's not competing? I always try to keep up on his feet and nails and recently trimmed his puppy fluff since it was looking a bit ragged. But he's got a wavy coat, etc. that I need to start training with a blow dryer. Now may be a good time to start. Do people who bring their dogs for fun still try to pretty them up?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

the shows I've been to do not allow unentered dogs on the show site, so depending on how mature he looks for his age you may need to leave him home (if he doesn't look at least 6 months old).


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> the shows I've been to do not allow unentered dogs on the show site, so depending on how mature he looks for his age you may need to leave him home (if he doesn't look at least 6 months old).


Good to know. He's not a tiny boy...he was 36 pounds at his last vet visit a couple of weeks back. So I'm sure he can pass for 6 months. He's almost 5 months. I'll pretty him up though just to look the part. We'll also likely be arriving with the two who are entered so maybe they won't notice.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

No training collars--prongs or head collar specifically. Someone was telling me that the no-pull harness is ok, but I would double check. Choke chains are allowed though, go figure...


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## filhar (Mar 13, 2010)

*handler?*

When deciding whether or not to use a handler, go to the shows and watch them in the ring. Some handlers are better at making a dog enjoy the experience. They play with the dog in the ring and let the younger dogs enjoy it. I know one handler who took on a dog who didn't really like to show and got him to enjoy it so much he couldn't wait to get in the ring. He always gaited out in front of her and was always "up". Some are professional and knowledgable, and some also have the "knack". Showing is an art.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

filhar said:


> When deciding whether or not to use a handler, go to the shows and watch them in the ring. Some handlers are better at making a dog enjoy the experience. They play with the dog in the ring and let the younger dogs enjoy it. I know one handler who took on a dog who didn't really like to show and got him to enjoy it so much he couldn't wait to get in the ring. He always gaited out in front of her and was always "up". Some are professional and knowledgable, and some also have the "knack". Showing is an art.


I'll definitely start watching that next weekend!


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

So excited for the show this Saturday! I'll be taking pictures (with my spiffy new DSLR camera) and will post them afterward!


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

Have lots of fun!


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## Goldenz (Mar 16, 2010)

I would say go for it! I think that showing puppies is a lot of fun. No one expects too much from them so if they get a little silly, it's ok. The key word is FUN. If your puppy starts to feel the pressure, they will hate showing. Keep it light, keep it fun, play with your puppy and plenty of praise


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

We had a great time at the show today! Jack did great and was very well behaved. He even got to work with the handler who will likely be showing him when he's older. He was great with Jack! Overall a great day!

ETA: Forgot to mention one of the highlights of the day. A woman approached me and asked if Jack was a golden-doodle since his coat is wavy on top. I said no, that he is a golden retriever and my breeder friend (nicely) responded with "ma'am, golden-doodle is not a breed." After the "comfort goldens" and such on this site, it made me laugh


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Glad you had a good day!

Aw man, I am going through dog show withdrawals. Just looking at the photos of a show site made me all anxious feeling. Five more weeks to go until our next trial....


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

Loved the photos of Jack and so glad he's having a good time in the rings! He's adorable!


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Thanks! They may have convinced me to show him sooner than I had planned. Apparently there are quite a few southern california shows coming up. I had planned to wait 3-ish months but might do it in about a month and a half


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

How nice that your first experience was such a positive one, both for you and for Jack! He looks wonderful on the photo's! It will be fun to follow your show adventures!


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Yay I love dog shows! Looks like you've got a cutie too!


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Thanks! I think he did really well for his first show experience and first time being stacked since he was 9 weeks old (I've tried but I have no idea what I'm doing). We're going to another show in 2 weeks and the handler is going to groom him after he's done showing his client dogs, and work with him again.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

he's cute as heck and looks like he has a GREAT bone structure!


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> he's cute as heck and looks like he has a GREAT bone structure!


 
Thanks! His structure and movement are two nice qualities he inherited from his parents. His dam has passed her beautiful movement on to two of her puppies that I've seen, and apparently Jack inherited it too. It was hard for me to tell on my own but with Robert, the handler, he moved beautifully. Unfortunately his head has pretty much disappeared right now but I've been told that in these lines it's the first thing to go and last thing to come back when they're growing. (Fingers crossed that it comes back!)


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