# Food for Thought



## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

I have a little bit of advice to share with all of you. Where I work this summer there is a lady who comes in every few months or so and is very knowledgeable about dog foods, etc. One of my co-workers was telling me yesterday that she had said that if your dog smells like a dog would, and not you; you need to change the food you're on. This is because if your dog smells too "doggy", the quality of the food isn't the greatest. 

Just thought I'd share this with the forum. I think it's GREAT advice. Too bad those average pet owners who feed Iams, etc. could know this!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

If your dog smells a bit musky, and is an intact male, that's pretty normal.
If your dog smells like a swamp, and has been swimming, that's real normal.
If your dog smells doggy, and is a basset hound, that's real normal.
If your dog smells a big stinky, and drools a bit, his mouth needs to be cleaned more often.
And so on....


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

MaddieMagoo said:


> I have a little bit of advice to share with all of you. Where I work this summer there is a lady who comes in every few months or so and is very knowledgeable about dog foods, etc. One of my co-workers was telling me yesterday that she had said that if your dog smells like a dog would, and not you; you need to change the food you're on. This is because if your dog smells too "doggy", the quality of the food isn't the greatest.
> 
> Just thought I'd share this with the forum. I think it's GREAT advice. Too bad those average pet owners who feed Iams, etc. could know this!


Sounds pretty silly.....


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## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

Sorry but I have to giggle at the thought of spraying my dogs with my Beyond Paradise perfume.  

I just can't expect my dogs to smell like me--and if they start to smell too doggie, it's bath time!


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

We "average" pet owners fed Carmella Iams for years and she smelled like a dog. Flora is fed Purina Pro Plan and she smells like a dog. I love the smell of my pup!

What are dogs supposed to smell like? Cats? Elephants? Humans? :


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I think that's pretty silly. Goldens smell like Goldens because of their coat oils. Unpleasantly strong doggy smell, if you've been taking your dog swimming, means he needs to be dried better, and if you haven't, it means he needs a bath.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

MaddieMagoo said:


> I have a little bit of advice to share with all of you. Where I work this summer there is a lady who comes in every few months or so and is very knowledgeable about dog foods, etc. One of my co-workers was telling me yesterday that she had said that if your dog smells like a dog would, and not you; you need to change the food you're on. This is because if your dog smells too "doggy", the quality of the food isn't the greatest.
> 
> Just thought I'd share this with the forum. I think it's GREAT advice. Too bad those average pet owners who feed Iams, etc. could know this!


This "average pet owner" who feeds ProPlan (and used to feed Iams) is pretty aware of the fact that a dog will smell like a dog, because he is a dog. If my dogs smell like me I am going to be broke. Chanel No 5 is too expensive for my dogs to be using it. 

If your dog stinks, he probably needs a bath.


Sorry, Caryn. I don't buy this advice at all.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

WasChampionFan said:


> Sounds pretty silly.....


Your being polite.:


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## newport (Aug 8, 2011)

I was just commenting to my hubby last night how Lola is the first dog who has NO DOG SMELL AT ALL. She just smells nice and clean. Even last winter when I had not bathed her for months and months... she had no doggy smell. I do think diet - a clean diet- and good health ( teeth - digestion etc.) make all the difference in how a dog and for that matter PEOPLE smell.


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## Allie.G (Aug 29, 2011)

*Doggy Smell*

I totally agree about diet influencing the doggy smell.
I got my Golden from a rescue center. They told me that 
Goldens always have a doggy smell.
I have since changed Mia's diet, which I assume was 
basic kebble at the rescue center, to a high grade 
kebble (at the moment she is on Orijen).
She has no doggy smell whatsoever now.
I bathe she about three times a year so that has 
no influence.
Do believe you are what you eat!!!
Cheers,
Allie.G


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

You know, as much as I LOVE dogs, I can't stand the doggy smell...


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Most people who think that their dog has no smell are simply used to it. Other people notice (although most are too polite to say anything) - not saying it "stinks", but trust me, they have an odor. We bathe the dogs very frequently here, because we prefer not to live with "doggy" smell (and the hair and dirt that Pointers and Goldens going on regular "field trips" leave all over!). And we notice when they stink!
Obviously, a dog fed a quality diet is generally going to enjoy better overall health and digestion, which will lessen odors associated with the same. But, no matter what... a dog smells like a dog, a horse smells like a horse, an elephant smells like an elephant. They will never, nor should they, smell like a person.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

Someone should talk to Riley about the smelling thing - he just went swimming earlier today and he stinks!


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

To me, my apartment and my puppy (most of the time) don't smell, but I know I'm just used to it. I Febreeze when people come over and worry if they think the place smells like dog. I would never expect a dog to not smell like a dog. My bf loves Molly's smell; he describes it as "comforting". However, I doubt anyone else would describe it the same way! Lol


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

MaddieMagoo said:


> Too bad those average pet owners who feed Iams, etc. could know this!


I don't feed Iams but I find this insulting. Why does feeding Iams and "etc" make you an "average" dog owner. Many people feed what works best for their dogs, sometimes after trying many foods, both more and less expensive. I just find it ridiculous to insinuate that you can't be a great dog owner and feed Iams and "etc."


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

vcm5 said:


> I don't feed Iams but I find this insulting. Why does feeding Iams and "etc" make you an "average" dog owner. Many people feed what works best for their dogs, sometimes after trying many foods, both more and less expensive. I just find it ridiculous to insinuate that you can't be a great dog owner and feed Iams and "etc."


In fact, Iams is a very low-quality food. I was told by several people to never feed Iams. Most "average" people who just feed whatever happens to be on sale, not checking ingredients in the food; don't know that these things..and end up buying it anyway. I didn't say they couldn't be a good dog owner, but feeding your dog high-quality food can lead them to a happy, healthy life.

Yes, if you feed a very high-quality food that helps the digestion process, among other things. I didn't mean your dogs should literally smell JUST like you, but like your home? It's just like if you eat fast food every freaking meal, you will start to have a BAD odor.


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

MaddieMagoo said:


> It's just like if you eat fast food every freaking meal, you will start to have a BAD odor.



...wow...


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

Enzos_Mom said:


> ...wow...


Yeah, I know! 

I just don't think its fair to judge others by the decisions they make when you don't know their situations and the events that have led up to making those decisions. 

I'm sure people could find fault with plenty of the decisions I make as a dog owner, no one is perfect. But its about overall love and care. 

For example, right now Riley is eating Nutro Max. Not exactly the most high quality, expensive food on the market. But the reason he is eating that is that his food was unfortunately part of the recalls and the evening I realized this it was too late to go out to buy any food and my friend happened to have a bag of it. So I started giving it to him. I am going to be switching him to a new food but I haven't decided which yet and I am going to finish out this bag because I don't want to switch him again so quickly after he just had to switch suddenly. His stomach has just settled down from the switch, I don't want to make another so fast.

So there are countless reasons that people could be feeding one food versus another and I just don't think we should be calling people only "average" versus "good" or "great" dog owners based on one decision, such as food type.

It is also worth mentioning that dog foods and diets do tend to go through phases or fads. So what is considered "best" for a dog today may be completely different five years from now.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

MaddieMagoo said:


> In fact, Iams is a very low-quality food. I was told by several people to never feed Iams. Most "average" people who just feed whatever happens to be on sale, not checking ingredients in the food; don't know that these things..and end up buying it anyway. I didn't say they couldn't be a good dog owner, but feeding your dog high-quality food can lead them to a happy, healthy life.
> 
> Yes, if you feed a very high-quality food that helps the digestion process, among other things. I didn't mean your dogs should literally smell JUST like you, but like your home? It's just like if you eat fast food every freaking meal, you will start to have a BAD odor.


See, and its crap like this that perpetuates the myth that these holistic, "high quality" foods are better than brands that have been around for DECADES, such as Eukanuba, Pro Plan, and, dare I say it, Iams.

Feed what works for your dog. End. of. story.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

*sigh*
Here we go again.
Feed whatever works for your dog. Do not insult or belittle others because of what they feed, whatever that may be. We do not know the reasons that they have made the choices that they have made, nor is it anyone else's business. It's almost in the same category as discussing politics or religion.
I have said this over and over, but here it is again...I board dogs for a living. Over the past 12+ years I have boarded some really, really old dogs. A few that come to mind right away are a 16 year old big rottie mix, 16 year old golden, 17 year old lab mix, 20 year old American Eskimo, 17 year old beagle mix, another 17 year old beagle mix, 12 year old great dane, 15 year old golden, another 15-1/2 year old golden, 2 Brittanys at 16 and 15 years old, my own 15 year old golden, and there are quite a few others. I'm just listing the big dogs, there have been some really old smaller dogs, too. Every single one, with no exceptions, ate either Purina One/Pro Plan or Iams. That speaks for itself. Other foods may or may not have the same results, and I'm not saying they don't because I don't know, but you can't argue with a long, proven history of success.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

MaddieMagoo said:


> In fact, Iams is a very low-quality food. *I was told by several people to never feed Iams.* Most "average" people who just feed whatever happens to be on sale, not checking ingredients in the food; don't know that these things..and end up buying it anyway. I didn't say they couldn't be a good dog owner, but feeding your dog high-quality food can lead them to a happy, healthy life.
> 
> Yes, if you feed a very high-quality food that helps the digestion process, among other things. I didn't mean your dogs should literally smell JUST like you, but like your home? It's just like if you eat fast food every freaking meal, you will start to have a BAD odor.


So, if several people told you to go jump off a 50 story building and you would not get hurt, would you believe them? Of course not...don't believe what "several people" tell you unless they have credentials. 

Feed what works for you dog and please don't criticize or judge what others might feed their dog that works for their dog.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

vcm5 said:


> Yeah, I know!
> 
> I just don't think its fair to judge others by the decisions they make when you don't know their situations and the events that have led up to making those decisions.
> 
> ...



Please don't feel that I'm "judging" everyone by what they feed their dogs. I'm simply stating that just because the ads on TV may look like the food is awesome, do your research! I've learned so much from here as well as other dog friends have told me. It's as simple as that. Just like the example I stated about eating fast food, it's not good for you at all! Eating low quality foods can have an overall affect on your health...it goes the same for dogs. 

I'm not here to judge what you do with your dogs. I'm only giving advice, the advice I wish I had way back when I first got my Golden. I'm merely here to help everyone out. Jeesh, didn't know my advice was judging people!


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

Caryn, sadly it seems that recently people aren't taking advice too kindly when it is in front of their noses on this forum. One person feels the need to overly examine what a poster says and then attack the OP for it. And then everyone else jumps on the bandwagon. How mature. I am so fed up with recent posts on this forum that just end up in everyone being in attack mode.

I originally came to this forum for advice and to share my love of the breed. Sadly, it seems like we have lost many of these people with my same intent. I am not saying that everyone on GRF constantly attacks everyone else. I am just saying it is a much different forum than it once was when I joined. And it amazes me that a 20-year-old can figure that one out.

I am about done here. Let's remember why we are all here and why this forum exists. Let's not be so self-centered that we think that a harmless post is directly attacking us.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Emily,

I came to this forum looking for advice in the past...but I have been in and out of it, because life got too busy for me to keep sitting on here day in and day out. I've had bad experiences on here...with some "mature adults"..and it only seems to be coming back around to bite me. I just thought giving some advice I heard from a person WITH CREDENTIALS, would be helpful to the forum. But sadly, I guess not. 

With me being almost 20, I have figured out not to be on the bandwagon and I don't attack people on here. I may give my opinion, and then I'm done. I think if we want to help out our breed-we must be able to be civil on here. The Golden is something I treasure with my whole heart. I want to be a reputable breeder once I'm finished with college, and I want to give back to the breed that got me started in the "dog world", by eliminating and being a very educated person on what a true Golden should be.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

MaddieMagoo said:


> In fact, Iams is a very low-quality food. I was told by several people to never feed Iams. Most "average" people who just feed whatever happens to be on sale, not checking ingredients in the food; don't know that these things..and end up buying it anyway. I didn't say they couldn't be a good dog owner, but feeding your dog high-quality food can lead them to a happy, healthy life.
> 
> Yes, if you feed a very high-quality food that helps the digestion process, among other things. I didn't mean your dogs should literally smell JUST like you, but like your home? It's just like if you eat fast food every freaking meal, you will start to have a BAD odor.


In fact, you are incorrect on several counts, Caryn. Iams is NOT a "very low-quality" food at all. I fed it for years and was very happy with. I only switched to ProPlan because the Pointers do so well on it, and I want to feed all my dogs the same food. ProPlan is also considered a "very low quality food" by many. Considering that you are now an "AKC Dog Handler", you probably know that the majority of the top winning dogs are fed ProPlan.

And you are also incorrect in that a very large number of "average" pet owners DO in fact check ingredients and do NOT purchase whatever happens to be on sale.

And not everyone who eats a poor diet (fast food every day) will have a bad odor.


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## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

goldengirls550 said:


> Caryn, sadly it seems that recently people aren't taking advice too kindly when it is in front of their noses on this forum. One person feels the need to overly examine what a poster says and then attack the OP for it. And then everyone else jumps on the bandwagon. How mature. I am so fed up with recent posts on this forum that just end up in everyone being in attack mode.
> 
> I originally came to this forum for advice and to share my love of the breed. Sadly, it seems like we have lost many of these people with my same intent. I am not saying that everyone on GRF constantly attacks everyone else. I am just saying it is a much different forum than it once was when I joined. And it amazes me that a 20-year-old can figure that one out.
> 
> I am about done here. Let's remember why we are all here and why this forum exists. Let's not be so self-centered that we think that a harmless post is directly attacking us.


I'm fairly new here--and IMO, it's one thing to give good advice. It's another to be completely judgemental in giving that advice. 

Many feed Iams/ Eukanuba/ Pro Plan here--and that far from makes them an average pet owner. Most feed these foods because they work--not because it's cheapest. Many jump on the grain free bandwagon (for example) because it's the newest "fad" out there today, when in reality, it is not the best thing for every single dog. (mine included). Iams doesn't make a pet owner inferior, nor does it mean they are not trying to give their dogs a long healthy life. And that has been implied here. 

Sometimes a little finesse in the way something is worded can go a long ways.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

MaddieMagoo said:


> Emily,
> 
> I came to this forum looking for advice in the past...but I have been in and out of it, because life got too busy for me to keep sitting on here day in and day out. I've had bad experiences on here...with some "mature adults"..and it only seems to be coming back around to bite me. I just thought giving some advice I heard from a person WITH CREDENTIALS, would be helpful to the forum. But sadly, I guess not.
> 
> With me being almost 20, I have figured out not to be on the bandwagon and I don't attack people on here. I may give my opinion, and then I'm done. I think if we want to help out our breed-we must be able to be civil on here. The Golden is something I treasure with my whole heart. I want to be a reputable breeder once I'm finished with college, and I want to give back to the breed that got me started in the "dog world", by eliminating and being a very educated person on what a true Golden should be.


 
Then it is very important that you not take as gospel everything that you are told by people. The "facts" that you were given are quite incorrect.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

All I was trying to say in the beginning was: "You put crap in, you get crap out." Meaning that if a dog is fed a poor diet..you get some bad results. Hey, I fed Science Diet in the past, and switched as soon as I found out it wasn't the best food out there for a dog. But hey, I learned. 

I don't get why most of you turned this around on me, when I was merely offering advice?? That's the one thing that puzzles me about this forum.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

MaddieMagoo said:


> All I was trying to say in the beginning was: "You put crap in, you get crap out." Meaning that if a dog is fed a poor diet..you get some bad results. Hey, I fed Science Diet in the past, and switched as soon as I found out it wasn't the best food out there for a dog. But hey, I learned.
> 
> I don't get why most of you turned this around on me, when I was merely offering advice?? That's the one thing that puzzles me about this forum.


 
Caryn, you stated "as fact" some things that simply are not.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Laura- I personally don't like ProPlan. I have tried it, and didn't enjoy the results. But then again, if the top-winning dogs are fed this, it doesn't speak for the quality of the food. Now, if they were all fed raw or grain-free, I'm sure that would be the new "fad" and everyone would be feeding it. I suppose now some would think that because I don't feed my dogs with ProPlan, I'm a "bad handler". 

I just want my dog to have the best quality of life, even if it means spending more $ on food. I don't plan on having kids anytime in my life, so I know those dollars will be put to good use. 

And with this post, I am done here. I have said what I need to say.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

MaddieMagoo said:


> Laura- I personally don't like ProPlan. I have tried it, and didn't enjoy the results. But then again, if the top-winning dogs are fed this, it doesn't speak for the quality of the food. Now, if they were all fed raw or grain-free, I'm sure that would be the new "fad" and everyone would be feeding it. I suppose now some would think that because I don't feed my dogs with ProPlan, I'm a "bad handler".
> 
> I just want my dog to have the best quality of life, even if it means spending more $ on food. I don't plan on having kids anytime in my life, so I know those dollars will be put to good use.
> 
> And with this post, I am done here. I have said what I need to say.


 
This is really quite ridiculous, Caryn. It doesn't speak for the quality of the food? Really? It is not a fad. Pro handlers have used it for YEARS. 
You used it. On who? Maddie? One dog? Or, are you now, as a handler, housing a string of client's dogs who you are responsible for feeding and conditioning?


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

To get back on topic here . . . 

I believe dogs can be smelly (or have less than a great odor) for a variety of reasons as someone else posted.

If a particular food (and I don't care how much it costs) isn't well-digested and utilized by an individual dog, then the dog may have some additional body odor due to that.

I'll add that I read a dog magazine article once where several vets said they could tell if a dog ate kibble that had high corn content in it . . . that it gave off a particular aroma. No opinion on that - just passing it along.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

I'm sorry - did I miss the post where someone _asked_ for this advice?

Because it seems like you just came and posted out of nowhere with what is, I'm sorry, a ridiculous, utterly unscientific "fact" - and then got all huffy when people took offence. And, apologies again, you were the one who was judgmental and insulting in your very first post. (And, no, I don't happen to feed Iams, but I can recognize a put-down when I see one).

As Dallas Gold said, feed what works best for your dog and quit worrying about the rest of us. If people have challenges or questions about their dog's diet, they ask. Every one of our dogs is different. We hope to find what works best for them - and what works best for one dog is not going to work best for another.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

I'm sorry if I in any way turned this into an argument. I just meant to say that while I truly do appreciate advice, I just think that maybe we should be a little more careful before we make judgements or say negative things about one brand and the people that may feed it. I think that maybe sometimes this forum does come off too rigid and judgmental, but I think that comment about "average dog owners" and Iams was part of the problem in itself.

I'm sorry, but to me it seems like in your first post you made a pretty judgmental comment and then you complained later that the forum members were jumping down your throat and being judgmental. It just didn't make a lot of sense.

That being said, I truly mean it when I say I do appreciate advice. If your or anyone else has any advice on and easy way to quickly make my dog smell better after he takes a dip, I would love it!


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> This is really quite ridiculous, Caryn. It doesn't speak for the quality of the food? Really? It is not a fad. Pro handlers have used it for YEARS.
> You used it. On who? Maddie? One dog? Or, are you now, as a handler, housing a string of client's dogs who you are responsible for feeding and conditioning?


That is their choice to use the food. But many of the "top dogs" aren't always the best dogs representing the breed..let alone having some faults towards the standard. Most of the time, it is who is on the end of the lead...let's be honest here. And to say they are on PP, is a good campaign for the dogs, as well (more advertising for PP!) 

Yes, I used it on Maddie. Why are you questioning my handling services? I clearly am not a Registered Handler, and if I was I wouldn't be going to school, furthering my education. If you'd really like to know my services, you can PM me on here..not on the boards. I don't think it belongs on here.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

vcm5 said:


> I'm sorry if I in any way turned this into an argument. I just meant to say that while I truly do appreciate advice, I just think that maybe we should be a little more careful before we make judgements or say negative things about one brand and the people that may feed it. I think that maybe sometimes this forum does come off too rigid and judgmental, but I think that comment about "average dog owners" and Iams was part of the problem in itself.
> 
> I'm sorry, but to me it seems like in your first post you made a pretty judgmental comment and then you complained later that the forum members were jumping down your throat and being judgmental. It just didn't make a lot of sense.
> 
> That being said, I truly mean it when I say I do appreciate advice. If your or anyone else has any advice on and easy way to quickly make my dog smell better after he takes a dip, I would love it!


Thank you Valerie for apologizing...but I was merely giving Iams as an example. Not personally attacking those who use it. I'm sure there is a list of foods that aren't so good for your dogs, but may think they are. I guess I should have said "as an example" in my original post. I guess the Internet sucks as far as communication and trying to say what you really mean.


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## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

MaddieMagoo said:


> Thank you Valerie for apologizing...but I was merely giving Iams as an example. Not personally attacking those who use it. I'm sure there is a list of foods that aren't so good for your dogs, but may think they are. I guess I should have said "as an example" in my original post. I guess the Internet sucks as far as communication and trying to say what you really mean.


That's just it. There is no list of good foods or bad foods. We can all have our opinions--but what works for YOUR Dog is what is a good food for your dog. It really is that simple.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

MaddieMagoo said:


> That is their choice to use the food. But many of the "top dogs" aren't always the best dogs representing the breed..let alone having some faults towards the standard. Most of the time, it is who is on the end of the lead...let's be honest here. And to say they are on PP, is a good campaign for the dogs, as well (more advertising for PP!)
> 
> Yes, I used it on Maddie. Why are you questioning my handling services? I clearly am not a Registered Handler, and if I was I wouldn't be going to school, furthering my education. If you'd really like to know my services, you can PM me on here..not on the boards. I don't think it belongs on here.


I wasn't questioning your handling services at all, Caryn. I was trying to clarify how you'd tried ProPlan. One dog is not all that telling, frankly.

Thanks for the enlightenment as to most of the top dogs not being the best of their breeds. :doh: I guess you know more than long time breeders/handlers/and judges. (You're off base, again, on the ProPlan, as it is not just top conformation dogs - many who are actually B/O/H - but also the performance venues, and none of them get anything from using it, other than the usual Pro Club incentives - like MOST FOODS OFFER.)

I'm okay on the handling end, thanks, I generally show my own unless I have a dog I want specialed. (But if you don't think it belongs on the boards, why put it in your signature?)


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

<- average dog owner here who fed Iams for a bit, then Dog Chow for a bit, Blue Buffalo for a bit, even Ol' Roy for a bit when we were both unemployed and had three dogs and a cat to feed (one of the dogs was a stray we'd taken in) and is now feeding Pro Plan. 

They are awesome on it, and the only food that actually really messed them up was Blue Buffalo, a so called "high quality" food. Hm.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> I wasn't questioning your handling services at all, Caryn. I was trying to clarify how you'd tried ProPlan. One dog is not all that telling, frankly.
> 
> Thanks for the enlightenment as to most of the top dogs not being the best of their breeds. :doh: I guess you know more than long time breeders/handlers/and judges. (You're off base, again, on the ProPlan, as it is not just top conformation dogs - many who are actually B/O/H - but also the performance venues, and none of them get anything from using it, other than the usual Pro Club incentives - like MOST FOODS OFFER.)
> 
> I'm okay on the handling end, thanks, I generally show my own unless I have a dog I want specialed. (But if you don't think it belongs on the boards, why put it in your signature?)


I guess it just didn't work for my dog, so I switched. 

And of course I don't know more than the experts out there, I'm only 20 years old! Once I find something that works for every dog, then I'll stick with it. You like your food that you feed, and I like mine. 

I ONLY meant that if I wanted to discuss my services in depth, we should privately talk about it off of the boards. I don't see a problem with it on my signature, as a means of possibly advertising. But I know you have to advertise more and get the word out if you want any success. 

OK..now I'm finally done with this. I'm not going to argue over why one food is better than the other...which wasn't the intention in the first place.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

MaddieMagoo said:


> I don't get why most of you turned this around on me, when I was merely offering advice?? That's the one thing that puzzles me about this forum.


I think it was because your post seemed to indicate that people who fed Iams were feeding a bad food and that doing so made them "average" pet owners. So anybody who's fed Iams or something similar may have felt a bit insulted by that.

The food debate gets highly charged, especially when people make strong claims as if they're fact, even though those claims are actually strongly disputed.

Iams is a good food. Some of the adult blends, in my personal experience, don't have enough fat for some Goldens' coats, but it's a good food. There's no food that every Golden thrives on, but there's so much misinformation out there about dog foods that many foods get a bad rap for no good reason. Most of what people say is bad about Iams isn't based on sound evidence.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

MaddieMagoo said:


> I guess it just didn't work for my dog, so I switched.
> 
> And of course I don't know more than the experts out there, I'm only 20 years old! Once I find something that works for every dog, then I'll stick with it. You like your food that you feed, and I like mine.
> 
> ...


 

Caryn, I have ALWAYS said to feed what your dog does best on. However, one should not denigrate a food that others feed, and particularly when there have been years and years of substantiated, PROVEN results. 

(BTW, Forum Rule 4 prohibits advertising. Even in a signature or listing a link to a sales oriented site. )


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## Maddie'sMom2011 (Apr 26, 2011)

Your first post:



MaddieMagoo said:


> I have a little bit of advice to share with all of you.


Maybe that started all of this?


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## Maddie'sMom2011 (Apr 26, 2011)

What about this source?

Dog Food Reviews - Main Index - Powered by ReviewPost


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Maddie'sMom2011 said:


> What about this source?
> 
> Dog Food Reviews - Main Index - Powered by ReviewPost


These folks have a philosophy, and they rate foods by how well they conform to that philosophy. Many (most?) of their claims aren't based in solid evidence.


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## Maddie'sMom2011 (Apr 26, 2011)

tippykayak said:


> These folks have a philosophy, and they rate foods by how well they conform to that philosophy. Many (most?) of their claims aren't based in solid evidence.


Please explain. Let's be honest.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Maddie'sMom2011 said:


> Please explain. Let's be honest.


I'm not 100% clear about the "let's be honest" part, but here goes.

From their own FAQs:



> But the animals we’re feeding them to are carnivores and should be eating a diet that is mainly made up of meat…


That's an assumption and an oversimplification. Dogs followed humans for thousands of years and ate their leavings. It's a vast oversimplification to say dogs are "carnivores" when they evolved to eat like humans for so long. Proto-dogs that did better on human food reproduced better, and over tens of thousands of years, that makes dogs much more omnivorous than wolves.. Dogs don't have the same exact dietary needs as humans, but they no longer have exactly the same needs as wolves either. 



> Grains contain protein too – but it’s far less bioavailable protein for a carnivore that lacks the digestive enzymes needed to digest plants.


"Bioavailable" should ring some alarm bells. They throw the word out with absolutely no substantiation at all for the claim that dogs lack the requisite "digestive enzymes." There's no indication at all that they have any way of measuring a dog's ability to access different nutritional sources, so they can say "bioavailable," but unless they define it, it's utterly meaningless.

The fact of the matter is that plants have lots nutrients that dogs can access. It's true that a dog wouldn't thrive getting all of its protein from plants, but it wouldn't thrive getting all of its proteins from meat either. There's nothing wrong with a mix.



> Protein derived from meat represents a far higher quality and species-appropriate diet for a carnivore than plant proteins ever can be. What’s the point of a protein if it cannot be properly digested?


More mumbo-jumbo and pseudoscience. "Higher quality" and "species-appropriate" are so vague that they're meaningless. They also have no evidence that a dog can't digest an appropriate amount of plant material; they just say it. And if you think about it for two seconds, the existence of thriving dogs on one star foods absolutely contradicts all of these claims, vague as they are. If these one star foods are so totally undigestible, how is it that so many dogs digest them so well? 

The fact of the matter is that no kibble is just meat because nobody could get AAFCO-certified that way. Dogs wouldn't thrive on an all-meat kibble. They need some starch and some proportion of nutrients they don't get from meat.

The most ridiculous thing to me is the way the site prefers potatoes to corn. If a food has corn, it gets absolutely panned. If it has potato as the starch source, it's fine, 'cause that's grain-free. Both are vegetable matter. They have different ratios of vitamins and minerals, but one isn't inherently better than another.

That site has absolutely no information about how dogs actually do on food. It's all a game of label-reading to them. If the label fits their philosophy, the food gets more stars, and the real-world performance of the food is completely ignored.


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Just because I really need to add my two cents ... I'd like to say that in my brief time on GRF, I've found few other topics quite as divisive and passionately discussed as dog food. I like reading about the different products and all of your experiences with them. Only time I get annoyed is when people give opinions stated as facts, then don't back them up. Dog nutrition is an evolving field--look how different it is now from just 20 years ago. I hope we'll all continue to share our experiences and learnings, and "all just get along.".  

To the OP--if it feels like you opened a can of worms, that's because you did! LOL.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

OutWest said:


> To the OP--if it feels like you opened a can of worms, that's because you did! LOL.


Well hey, someone's gotta open the can of worms at some point, now don't they?


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Iams,Eukanuba,ProPlan=tried and true
Grain Free-FAD
My Opinion
I feed neither as of right now.


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## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

Mick eats Wellness Core and he smells like a man-dog.
That's our story and we're sticking to it!


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

oakleysmommy said:


> Iams,Eukanuba,ProPlan=tried and true
> Grain Free-FAD
> My Opinion


Agree. Now I would go the grain free route if my dog was allergic to grains. But he's not. So I'm fine with the above products. Looks great and smells like a normal dog.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

The person who mentioned the basset hound smell......omg, that is a definite smell isn't it? I guess you would have to be a BH lover to appreciate it


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

LOLOL that was me! I can tell you, in a 5000 square foot building with 11 foot ceilings (and only 23 dog suites), where we turn the air over 10 times an hour, if there's a BH in the building!!!




lgnutah said:


> The person who mentioned the basset hound smell......omg, that is a definite smell isn't it? I guess you would have to be a BH lover to appreciate it


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