# When to Neuter



## WI12345 (Dec 31, 2016)

We will be getting a male Golden in about 5 weeks. I know I will have to sign something when we pick him up,saying we will neuter him. I don't know what the time line will be as far as what the breeder wants. I'm hearing more and more that it should not be done before he is a year old, and I have even heard I should wait till he is 2. Our last Golden was neutered at 6 months old. I would like to do it at the right time for health reasons, but I'm also hoping his hair will be longer and he'll have more feathering if we wait.

The next time I talk to the breeder I will ask her for her take on this, but I wanted to have some other opinions before I talk to her.

Thanks!


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

The best knowledge lately is after sexual maturity (so 15-24 months).


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## wdadswell (Dec 17, 2015)

Tons of info out there. I wish I'd known, about all the health risks, when I got my last Golden, or, I wouldn't have neutered him at 6 months. I hope you will read up on the results of the study they did on Golden Retrievers, out of UC Davis. That was an eye opener, for me. It's amazing, how much their gonads protect them.

I'm hoping, not to neuter my male, or wait until 2, at the very least. I spoke to my breeder about that, as she had a clause in her contract, to neuter and she was fine with it.

Mine is 15 months now and rarely tries to hump my other dog. He's lean, from being intact. He does mark, but then my spayed female, marks too-outside only. drawbacks to keeping an intact male, to some people, would be doggy daycare rules and dog parks, could be dicey, as well as the obvious one, of an unplanned breeding.


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## WI12345 (Dec 31, 2016)

wdadswell said:


> Tons of info out there. I wish I'd known, about all the health risks, when I got my last Golden, or, I wouldn't have neutered him at 6 months. I hope you will read up on the results of the study they did on Golden Retrievers, out of UC Davis. That was an eye opener, for me. It's amazing, how much their gonads protect them.
> 
> I'm hoping, not to neuter my male, or wait until 2, at the very least. I spoke to my breeder about that, as she had a clause in her contract, to neuter and she was fine with it.
> 
> Mine is 15 months now and rarely tries to hump my other dog. He's lean, from being intact. He does mark, but then my spayed female, marks too-outside only. drawbacks to keeping an intact male, to some people, would be doggy daycare rules and dog parks, could be dicey, as well as the obvious one, of an unplanned breeding.


Hopefully my breeder will be OK with waiting. As far as marking, my last male Golden marked everything even when he had nothing left to get out! Outside only, thankfully. He was neutered at 6 months and it made no difference there. Oddly, he also marked the other way ... when he pooped. If I took him for a short walk he would go 3 times ... by the third time he would have to force it out.


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## danoon58 (Jul 1, 2015)

Since your breeder will want him to not be able to sire puppies, the other option is to get him a vasectomy. Here is a website that has information on veterinarians that do the procedure all over the country. 

https://www.parsemusfoundation.org/projects/hormone-sparing-male-sterilization/


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

I'm interested in what the breeders here say, if a client asks for a waiver for neutering for health reasons? I know that there are several members who have intact males and don't breed. We originally planned to neuter Noah after he was 2 years old, but have now decided to keep him intact because we want to try to stack every odd we can in his favor a long lived life (and we also plan to titer to avoid over vaccination, and we keep him lean and athletic). We have NO plans to breed him. 

Do breeders agree if they believe the owner to be responsible, or do they just have them on limited registration? We got Noah before learning about clearances, and got him from a BYB, who had no issues with us keeping him intact, and had no contract regarding it. Though a BYB, they still keep in touch with all their puppies, even have a reunion planned for the end of the month with Noah's litter - so, while not "responsible" in the sense of a breeder, who breeds to improve the breed, is still very involved and keeps up with the puppies. When Noah's brother was killed a few weeks ago - their comment on her page was "while the puppies are only ours for a short time, we still keep them all in our hearts - we will miss Remi". I guess I say all that to say we "lucked out" in that we got a BYB who seems to care very much about their puppies, even after they've gone to their home.

In ANY case - what do reputable breeders tend to do when an owner expresses a desire to keep their male puppies intact for health reasons, with no intentions to ever breed?


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## Lucy222 (Aug 15, 2016)

Lucy's breeder had us sign a contract that we would NOT spay/neuter until after 15 months old. It's also a no-breed contract, but she made clear that she felt it was very important to the health and development of the dogs that we wait until they are fully mature to have them fixed. Lucy just finished her first heat - a month of house arrest seemed long, but well worth it I believe!


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

rabernet said:


> In ANY case - what do reputable breeders tend to do when an owner expresses a desire to keep their male puppies intact for health reasons, with no intentions to ever breed?


Our contract with Kaizer's breeder does say we should neuter only after 12 months, but his breeder actually wanted us to keep Kaizer intact for the rest of his life. It was her idea actually, she knew Kaizer was doing well (no issues whatsoever relating to him being intact) and that we had no intention to breed him (i suppose her thinking is that if we wanted it to happen, it would've happened by now lol) so she gave us the OK.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

For myself, neither of the two reputable breeders I've worked with had any requirements, they both left it up to owners to make those kinds of decisions.


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## Coopscooper (Jan 23, 2017)

DO NOT. Do not neuter you puppy until he is 24 months. At this time you are 100% percent sure he is done physically growing. Neutering a puppy can affect his growth development, bone density, muscle proportions and temperament overall. My breeder strongly advised me not to do it, neutering is a HUGE business for all vets nowadays and there is tons of stigma on the cons of not neutering your dog that are not well supported by testing and facts. In fact, there are more cons of neutering your dog. The best way to make sure your dog will grow strong and healthy is to make sure his hormones are there to develop. Cooper is 5 months and my intention is to grow him as natural as possible, dogs are not meant to be neutered. Think about it for a second. Probably your vet, like most of them, will strongly advice you to do it. I decided to go with the vet of Coopers breeder since day 1. He was very honest with me regarding this topic. My advice, do not go for it, at least until he is 2 years old. 

My experience: I had a french poodle around 11 years ago. I decided to pay for a trainer to walk him every afternoon since I didn't have time. She recommended neutering him, he was already 3 years old at the time. I decided to go for it since she told me "it would make training so much easier and his behaviour would drastically improve". 
It was literally the worst thing I could have done to my dog, he stopped being as active as before ( he was very athletic) i noticed he would get tired quickly, and his temperament and personality just went down. He was shy at situations he wasn't before.

In conclusion there was no vet to tell me my poodle had this downgrade due to neutering and there is not scientifically proven information to support this. Its just my experience. 

There are tones of scientifically proven facts to support the cons of neutering though.

At the end is your decision to what is the best for your dog, just my advice and opinion, don't go for it.


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


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## Rambo's mom (Apr 30, 2016)

Our breeder contract required neutering between the ages of 18-24 months. Our long time vet said it was ok to wait 12 months for the large breeds. But then he said, and I will paraphrase, "if you want him to retain his sweet behavior, the earlier the better". What????? I still go to this vet, I like him, but I certainly disagree with him on this. Rambo is almost 17 months old and as sweet as he can be. I now have decided to wait until he is close to 24 months old. Oh, and far as marking and humping, not a problem. He did have a stuffed bear that was his "girlfriend" but that was only occasionally and has stopped altogether. And like the others have said, do what you think is right for your circumstances.


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## Fattner (Apr 1, 2015)

12/18 months no sooner


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## WI12345 (Dec 31, 2016)

I finally had a chance to speak to the breeder about this subject. She told me definitely not before a year old, and preferably not till he is 2. I asked her if I will have to sign something saying that I will eventually neuter him and I was pleasantly surprised when she said no. We have had several extended phone conversations and she has come to trust me to be a responsible dog owner. Also, now that the puppy is just over 4 weeks old she is seeing potential in him as possibly being a stud dog for at least one litter. She asked if I might be interested in that in the future and I think we would be. Both of his parents are champions. His grandfather won best in breed at Westminster a few years ago.

To the people who did not neuter their dogs, have you noticed any negatives as far as temperament? Our last Golden was neutered at 6 months and he still humped everything in sight and lifted his leg. I did notice that compared to his father ... who was very majestic ... he was a bit smaller (his father was 80 pounds and he was under 70), and did not have as many "feathers," especially on his chest. 

Getting excited about picking up this boy! We are getting him from a different litter than we originally thought. This boy was born a week later, but from the same breeder. We will get him 4 weeks from today!!!


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

Congratulations on your puppy!! I hope you'll post lots of pictures when you get him (and maybe even now, if you have any!). My boy's grandfather won best of breed at Westminster a few years ago, too! 2014 specifically.

I haven't noticed any negatives with Kaizer whatsoever, never had an issue with him. He's a sweet, funny dog. He gets along wonderfully with everyone and every dog he's met (to date - but that number is also extremely small).


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## WI12345 (Dec 31, 2016)

aesthetic said:


> Congratulations on your puppy!! I hope you'll post lots of pictures when you get him (and maybe even now, if you have any!). My boy's grandfather won best of breed at Westminster a few years ago, too! 2014 specifically.
> 
> I haven't noticed any negatives with Kaizer whatsoever, never had an issue with him. He's a sweet, funny dog. He gets along wonderfully with everyone and every dog he's met (to date - but that number is also extremely small).


The puppy's grandfather won in 2013. Funny thing is, I almost got a puppy from that dog's breeder, which would have also been the grandson of the same dog! As it turned out I got one from someone who had pups that were ready to come home sooner, and since they all seemed to be equally good quality, I chose to get the one who I could bring home sooner. It's been 3 months without a dog and the waiting is so hard! 

Here is a pic, but I don't know which one is mine yet.


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## 155569 (Jan 27, 2017)

This is such great info! We are getting our pup in about 5 weeks, too. I had the same questions. Thanks


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## saleski (Feb 16, 2017)

I am new to the group and love all the information here. we have a deposit on a puppy to be born this weekend. The breeder is requiring no neutering until 2 years old. Having had my previous 2 golden neutered at around 6-8 months I am worried about behaviors because of this (someone told me they run "away" because of it??) and the ability to not do doggy daycare. But it if it truly makes a "better" dog because of it I will make it work.
My other question, should I worry about the puppy (health wise or socialization wise) because there are only 2 puppies in the litter? TIA for any help with these concerns


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## WI12345 (Dec 31, 2016)

saleski said:


> I am new to the group and love all the information here. we have a deposit on a puppy to be born this weekend. The breeder is requiring no neutering until 2 years old. Having had my previous 2 golden neutered at around 6-8 months I am worried about behaviors because of this (someone told me they run "away" because of it??) and the ability to not do doggy daycare. But it if it truly makes a "better" dog because of it I will make it work.
> My other question, should I worry about the puppy (health wise or socialization wise) because there are only 2 puppies in the litter? TIA for any help with these concerns


I did not think about the day care thing. We don't need daycare but we do occasionally need a reputable kennel when we travel. I never paid attention to whether or not they require neutering. 

Our puppy is coming from a litter of only 3 and I also wondered if that was something to be concerned about. 2 of the dogs in the litter died and were reabsorbed by the mother (so originally there were 5). That sounded strange to me but after doing some research, it is not that uncommon. My last 2 Goldens came from litters of 10 or more, so 3 sounded very unusual. I would appreciate any input on that subject as well.


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## wdadswell (Dec 17, 2015)

What a cute pic!! I've been trying to expose Bodie, to as many different scenarios, that I can, to see if it's going to be a problem, keeping him intact. So far, he's passed everything with flying colours. He's happy, social and confident. He's even had a couple of dogs, try to pick a fight with him and while he will stand his ground, he would not go after them and avoided them afterwards.

Bodie comes from a litter of 3 as well. That shouldn't affect the social aspect, as well, or health wise. Bodie's Mom had a c-section, to get the last pup out and all pups were well looked after, gorgeous and friendly.

I have a dog walker, walk my guys. Daycares usually have a cut off age, for non-neutered dogs. Kennels should be fine. They don't run away, to look for a female. My dog is exposed to lots of other dogs, on our walks and leash free hikes and will always come, when called.

No negatives for me. With all the health risks, Goldens are susceptible to, I want to give Bodie any edge I can, to live a long and healthy life


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

saleski said:


> I am new to the group and love all the information here. we have a deposit on a puppy to be born this weekend. The breeder is requiring no neutering until 2 years old. Having had my previous 2 golden neutered at around 6-8 months I am worried about behaviors because of this (someone told me they run "away" because of it??) and the ability to not do doggy daycare. But it if it truly makes a "better" dog because of it I will make it work.


Owning an intact dog means there's more of an emphasis on responsibility and training. That means consistent training for the first year or two. Group classes, private trainers, whatever, training is key. Your dog won't run away (I'm assuming this means going after a female in heat?) if you stay on top of training. Responsibility means that your dog is always under your control (and I don't mean physical control - if your dog is ever off leash, he should still listen to you), and that you take the right steps to make sure that accidental litters can't happen.

I didn't have to worry about doggy daycare, but we did need to leave Kaizer at a place for 12 hours last summer (that's the only time he's ever been left somewhere - he's usually always with us). He couldn't be out with the rest of the dogs because he was intact, but he had his own room with free access to the outdoors and someone came in and interacted with him every so often (can't remember how often). He had water and he had some toys from home. Some places specify on their website if they allow intact dogs - usually they can't be a part of the big group, but they get their own room and someone comes in to interact with them throughout the day and they get a walk too. It's not ideal, but it's better than nothing.

Another option would be to do a vasectomy (obviously ask your breeder first if that's okay). The dog keeps his testicles, but the vas deferens is cut and sealed. The dog then gets to keep the hormones necessary for growing and maturing properly, but is sterile. <-- if you don't think you can handle an intact dog, that'd be the course of action I'd recommend.



saleski said:


> My other question, should I worry about the puppy (health wise or socialization wise) because there are only 2 puppies in the litter? TIA for any help with these concerns


You should probably create another thread and ask about that - I'm going to assume that if the breeder is a good, reputable one, then they'll take the necessary precautions to make sure the puppies grow up to be very well-adjusted. There are a lot of people on here who can answer that question better though.


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## WI12345 (Dec 31, 2016)

aesthetic said:


> Congratulations on your puppy!! I hope you'll post lots of pictures when you get him (and maybe even now, if you have any!). My boy's grandfather won best of breed at Westminster a few years ago, too! 2014 specifically.
> 
> I haven't noticed any negatives with Kaizer whatsoever, never had an issue with him. He's a sweet, funny dog. He gets along wonderfully with everyone and every dog he's met (to date - but that number is also extremely small).


I didn't see any Golden that won Best in Breed in 2014. Maybe you are mistaken and it was 2013? If that's
the case, our dogs have the same grandfather!!! His name is Cody.


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

No, my boy's grandfather is Will - Kalm Sea's to Have and to Hold. He won BOB group 3 in 2014 (I checked my breeder's facebook)


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

There's a BOB at every show. What Cody did was a Group 1======= way big. That was after he was BOB.


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## WI12345 (Dec 31, 2016)

Prism Goldens said:


> There's a BOB at every show. What Cody did was a Group 1======= way big. That was after he was BOB.


I don't know much about showing dogs, but I would imagine just being at Westminster is quite an honor! That being said, from looking at his pictures, Cody looks like quite a magnificent dog!


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## azzure (Dec 10, 2011)

Just adding to this thread...I have an appointment to have Duffy neutered next week. He will be almost 2 and 1/2. I have gone back and forth about doing this at all, as he is so sweet and laid back now. But he sometimes comes in contact with off-leash dogs and has lately become more interested in mounting them, and I know a breeding can happen almost instantaneously! Also, though he has never marked in my house, he has done so several times in the home of the kind neighbor who looks after him while we are away. My vet seems to think marking behavior will decrease. Any input is welcome.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Wait as long as possible.

I have had the fortune to know a handful of Sailor's litter mates, and watch them grow up. Two females and two males, plus Sailor. Only one male was neutered, I think at about 9 months old. The others are show dogs and not neutered yet. They are all now three years old.

This weekend I walked into a grooming room, and the unspayed female was being groomed, and the neutered male was there with his owners - he looks now about 5 years older than his siblings! He has an awful spay coat that the owners cannot handle, overweight, graying - my mouth just dropped when I found out who he was - I did not recognize him. I wanted to cry. The other four do not look like this.

My Sailor still looks like she is about 18 months old!


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