# Goldens named No. 3 Biter on Animal Planet Program



## Florabora22

I feel like I've heard this before. However, I have also read an article in the past saying that dachshunds were the #1 biters, but b/c their bites were generally small and insignificant, it usually goes by unnoticed as compared to, say, a pitbull bite.

This is not the article I'm referring to, but it carries the same idea:

http://ezinearticles.com/?Top-Biting-Dog-Breeds&id=1407118


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## Ranger

I bet a lot has to do with backyard breeders, puppy mills, and beginner dog owners. Unfortunately, golden retrievers have that great family dog reputation and are very popular which means easy money to people with no scruples or morals (or just plain ignorant) AND people who don't research a breed or how to raise a dog gets them because of that good reputation. Add the two together and you get a golden that might bite.

When I was little my mom took me out because a friend of hers had just had a golden retriever who'd had a litter. We got there and this big male golden came charging out of the house, barking and snarling and growling at us. The owner had to come, grab him, and put him in dog run before we could even get out of the car. The puppies were cute, but why in heaven's name would you breed such an aggressive dog? The pups later sold for about $500 each. None were registered.

I think that's the biggest problem with the "biting" golden retrievers. That and because people wanting a dog will buy them because all they know is how good a golden is with kids, just like they "know" dobermans are aggressive, pitbulls are mean, etc. So you get the untrained, unsocialized golden that "had" to be bought so the kids have a dog...and then one day the dog bites one of the kids' friends.

Poor breeding and beginner or ignorant owners are probably the main cause of the golden retrievers biting people. Not to mention the sheer numbers of goldens in NA means the bite percentage will be higher than other breeds.


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## ButtersPeople

I wouldn't be at all surprised. Not because Goldens are aggressive but because people are expecting a "perfect from day 1 dog" without training when they get a Golden. Lack of training, improper training techniques, failure to properly supervise dog/child interaction would be more prevalent with Goldens. Hence, more bites.


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## PennyWhistle

That was the information I ran into with the article I was writing. The most prevalent biters were three small dogs, but because their bites are more annoyance than dangerous they don't get reported. But I still doubt the validity of the vet's remark. In all the pit bull bites that permeate the news and internet, they aren't in the top three on this vet's list?

I just worry about a statement like this, on a nationally syndicated program having a detrimental effect on the breed. Suppose you were a parent, considering getting a dog for your family...and you had been considering a Golden til you saw that segment...and then switched to a Cocker, or another of the biting prone breeds.


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## FlyingQuizini

All dogs can bite and yes, I've seen some nasty, aggressive Goldens.

The statistic probably has a lot to do with the popularity of the breed. There are more Goldens in homes, so given that all dogs can bite, if more of the dogs out there happen to be Goldens, you'll see a higher number of bites.


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## timberwolf

Also, keep in mind the number of Golden's out there as compared to the number of other breeds. 
As example, if there are 100,000 goldens out there and 1% of them bite someone, that's 1000 bites.
Now take a breed that the numbers aren't so high, take 50,000 Poodles (and this is just an example), and if 1% of them bite someone, the number reported would be 500, much lower.
Hence, it looks like Goldens bite more but they don't, there is just many more of them!
Hope that makes sense - it did in my head as I was saying it


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## LifeOfRiley

I just read one report, not too long ago, that stated Labrador Retrievers were #1 on the bite list. So I really think it depends on which report/survey/"expert" you listen to. 

Goldens being at #3 wouldn't necessarily suprise me, though. Like the Lab, they're a very popular breed, and when they outnumber other breeds by such a wide margin, it stands to reason that you're going to have more bites, as well.

I think it has a lot to do with the factors that others have mentioned, too. Goldens have a reputation for being wonderful family dogs, so people assume that they're automatically born that way and will require little or no effort on their part.
The ad that Riley's "breeder" had placed in the paper had a big headline in bold, "Great with kids!" (Yeah, because they're all just born that way.) These so-called breeders greatly contribute to the problem, in my opinion. They have questionable (at best) breeding practices to begin with, so they often have no idea what they're going to get in terms of temperament. Then, they turn around and advertise that they're great with kids, great family dogs, etc., insinuating that little effort will be required on the part of the owner.
~Ack. Okay, I'm done ranting now.~


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## PennyWhistle

Here's something else I found from the National Canine Research Council:

"Bite numbers become even more misleading when subdivided by breed descriptors. Recent research has confirmed that it is impossible to breed label dogs of unknown history and genetics solely on the basis of their appearance. And at least half of the dogs in the United States are mixed breed dogs! Nevertheless, animal controls and shelter workers continue to assign single breed descriptors to mixed breed dogs."

Also, according to the NCRC, animal control and public health departments classify all of the following animal exposures as dog bites:

Nips from playful puppies
Scratches from a dog’s nail
Scrapes from a dog’s tooth
Accidental bites by dogs
Bites to canine professionals that may have occurred under extreme duress, such as when the dog was in pain or otherwise unable to control its behavior (e.g. a vet tech bitten while removing intubation tube from a dog’s throat)
Good Samaritans bitten trying to assist injured dogs (e.g. dogs hit by cars)
Bites by working K-9 dogs in the performance of police duties
Unfortunately, when animal exposures are tallied up, they are released to the public as simple bite numbers. The circumstances of the incidents have been stripped away. In consequence, bite numbers are not an accurate representation of canine aggression, which is, in itself, a general term that is applied to range of different behaviors. 

Quizini, I've not run into nasty aggressive Goldens yet, so I am just going to continue to disbelieve Dodson until I see evidence of it myself, I guess. Its really eye opening to hear all these negative remarks about our breed, when I look over at Murphy, laying there, so sweet tempered and calm, and not a mean bone in his body. But I did take the time to make him a good canine citizen...apart from that sock eating and leash tugging. But no one's perfect, right?!? RIGHT?? ;-)


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## FlyingQuizini

*Quizini, I've not run into nasty aggressive Goldens yet, so I am just going to continue to disbelieve Dodson until I see evidence of it myself, I guess. Its really eye opening to hear all these negative remarks about our breed, when I look over at Murphy, laying there, so sweet tempered and calm, and not a mean bone in his body.*

Look through the archives. Many people with aggressive Goldens have come here for help. :-(


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## PennyWhistle

Alright Quiz, you've convinced me not to advocate the drawing and quartering of Dr. Dodson, but its sure disappointing to learn that something you really believed to be a truth isn't at all. But I still would like to see him tarred and feathered! LOL


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## RedDogs

Dodson is a veterinary behaviorist if I remember correctly. Very experienced dog guy, he works (or did) at a university so he is more likely to have used a reputable source for his numbers compared to others... but at the same time there aren't good statistics on dog bites. Most are suspected to go unreported. 

Any type of dogs can and will bite under the right circumstances, some dogs just have a different threshold for that point, some are in different settings, and some are more genetically predisposed to be fearful/low threshold. 

I too have worked with 'aggressive' goldens and met ones with bite histories. Dogs have teeth. They can bite. 

Re: Bully breeds... for whatever reason they're targeted by the media. Many more horrific attacks and bites often get nowhere near the amount of attention. It's really sad in many ways.


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## FlyingQuizini

PennyWhistle said:


> Alright Quiz, you've convinced me not to advocate the drawing and quartering of Dr. Dodson, but its sure disappointing to learn that something you really believed to be a truth isn't at all. But I still would like to see him tarred and feathered! LOL


...Haha...


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## PennyWhistle

Well, his university credentials aside...I'm not always impressed by affiliations with universities, or whatever cockamamie studies they've done. Often universities make the most ridiculous studies...i.e. the one I just saw that determined fat kids are more likely to be bullied. Yeah, thats a reaaaaaal eye opener there, Professor.

Anyway, there's a big difference between puppy nipping, or biting because a vet tech pulled his tail, and ending up No. 3 on the Hall of Shame List.


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## willows dad

Ive owned an aggressive dog not a golden i ha sen to add but a lot comes down to what people think is aggressive,mine tried to kill my son he went strait for his throat,luckily i was able to bring him down in time,(it turned out it was an illness)but on another forum i visited there was a lady who posted that she needed help with her 12 week old golden pup who was aggressive.i mean come on a 12 week old pup:no:.but thats how she saw it.


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## Blondie

I remember seeing that Dog's 101 episode awhile back before we got our puppy. I believe it all boils down in part to our belief system. What is considered a bite? They don't call them "land sharks," for nothing. Did you know there is a beer named Landshark? I saw it at Walmart and immediately thought of my Maggie. I never had a golden retriever before and this excessive chewing and biting were new to me. Some days are better than others and I have been reassured by many here on the forum that, "this too shall pass." I even find myself at times looking at my dog and wondering where is that loving, gentle, loyal companion I have seen all to often in movies such as, "Homeward Bound?"


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## PennyWhistle

I think you make a good point Blondie. If anytime a dog's mouth is opened and closed on a part of the human body is considered a bite, then Murphy is hideously aggressive and probably should be destroyed. He still will lovingly grab my hand and mouth it, not that he never breaks the skin, or exerts any pressure, but he holds my hand in his mouth when we're playing, and also grabs my wrist, but he's never even caused a pressure point. If they're considering scratches and nips as puppies biting then Goldens should probably push aside the GSDs and take first place.

Also, is it considered aggression when you're playing with your dog and you throw your tee shirt hem over his head, and then he runs through your legs, and turns around and bump bites your butt?

Just wondering.


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## fostermom

PennyWhistle said:


> Also, is it considered aggression when you're playing with your dog and you throw your tee shirt hem over his head, and then he runs through your legs, and turns around and bump bites your butt?
> 
> Just wondering.


That would be considered playing.

I have also dealt with some very aggressive goldens. Our rescue had to euthanize one several months ago after he attacked his foster and bit her arm badly enough that she had to have surgery to repair the damage. Sad thing is, that dog was turned into the shelter with a generic "doesn't care for the crate". The foster was trying to put him into a crate when he attacked her. It's pretty obvious to me that the person who turned him into the shelter knew about his aggression but wasn't man or woman enough to euthanize their problem dog and one of our foster paid the price for that.


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## PennyWhistle

fostermom said:


> That would be considered playing.


Errrm....yes, I know...my post would be considered humor.


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## fostermom

PennyWhistle said:


> Errrm....yes, I know...my post would be considered humor.


Sorry, kind of hard to "hear" humor in a post.


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## PennyWhistle

fostermom said:


> Sorry, kind of hard to "hear" humor in a post.


I thought maybe the incongruity of the described play would explain itself, Foster.


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## Noey

Goldens are "mouthy" to start with. My guys go mouth first into everything and like to "hold" your hand with a soft mouth.

All dogs can bite. I wonder how they define it... And nails are constantly causing issues as mine are also "high fivers" and tend to slap you with a paw to get your attention and or use the paws/legs in ways I've only seen a golden use them.

People are probably worse biters... have you been in a room of toddlers? they bite as well. : )


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## Bender

Goldens tend to be mouthy dogs, it's part of the breed - they like to have something in their mouth and often they'll pick an arm or a hand and it becomes a habit to do so. Some might call that a 'bite'. Also people assume goldens are great, sweet, perfect tempered dogs that can go in the ring and get a perfect score in obedience from day one without training - so they don't train them. At soccer there's a golden for every other dog out there, watching with their family.... they get a golden and assume they don't need to train anything. People see a golden and assume they're friendly and safe to let their kids pet without asking.

But a pit bull owner will tend to do more training and/or control over their dog, and less people will allow their kids to run up and pet that dog too..... 

And sadly, because they're popular (thanks to Air bud and the thought that they make perfect pets), there's a good market for back yard breeders to produce them. I've met some nasties too. 

Lana


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## Ranger

Bender said:


> But a pit bull owner will tend to do more training and/or control over their dog, and less people will allow their kids to run up and pet that dog too...


...you'd hope.


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## kwhit

I've always heard that Labs were #1 for bites involving children. 

As far as Pit Bull bites, I really believe that any dog that even slightly resembles a Pit will be labeled as such. I doubt that 1/2 of the media people even know what a true Pit Bull looks like and most reports involve mixes. I remember one report that labeled a Boxer as a Pit and another that claimed a Bullmastiff as a Pit.


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## Muddypaws

I saw that show last year and was a little surprised but people that don't know better will confuse "mouthy" with bite. Sad but true, our trainer warned in puppy class that one mouthy moment with the wrong person can label your dog a biter. He was very serious when he taught "no bite" and that under NO circumstance is it acceptable for a dog to put his/her mouth on a person.

It's a shame our beloved breed has this reputation, but statistics are hard to argue.


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## Deisel's Mom

I think any animal could be a potential biter.....shoot I'd bite if I was threatened or mistreated


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## FlyingQuizini

willows dad said:


> Ive owned an aggressive dog not a golden i ha sen to add but a lot comes down to what people think is aggressive,mine tried to kill my son he went strait for his throat,luckily i was able to bring him down in time,(it turned out it was an illness)but on another forum i visited there was a lady who posted that she needed help with her 12 week old golden pup who was aggressive.i mean come on a 12 week old pup:no:.but thats how she saw it.


Hate to break it to ya, but even 12 week old pups can be truly aggressive. Yup. I've seen those, too. :-( It's very sad when that happens. Often, in the right hands, they can be rehabbed. But sometimes bad genetics are just too stacked against them.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo

I know of someone who had to put their GR down due to aggression. It's thought to have been a neurological issue. I remember walking Shadow as a pup and a little girl saying she was afraid to say hello to him. Why? She had been bitten by a Golden.

I do feel people should remember that Goldens are dogs and dogs have the capacity to bite.


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## Retrievers Rock

kdmarsh said:


> I feel like I've heard this before. *However, I have also read an article in the past saying that dachshunds were the #1 biters*, but b/c their bites were generally small and insignificant, it usually goes by unnoticed as compared to, say, a pitbull bite.
> 
> This is not the article I'm referring to, but it carries the same idea:
> 
> http://ezinearticles.com/?Top-Biting-Dog-Breeds&id=1407118


I'll believe this one! My aunt's bit my face when I was little, and I had my top lip sewn back together as a result.


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## PennyWhistle

Well...I guess I can sort of see how they could be aggressive. Afterall, they do turn into a dingo now and then. You all know what I mean...when they lay on their backs, ears flopped up, foxy look in their eyes, and they let their lips fall back...if its not The Dingo, I don't know what it is.


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## Jax's Mom

Dogs are dogs...they can bite. But I tend to agree with the poster that noted, Goldens are a very popoular breed, and more dogs=more bites.


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## Nicole74

My golden has bitten.  Three times when she was 5 months old. I do not trust her at all around strange people or children. I have to keep a very good eye on her. Most of the time she is fine, it's just when she is in her moods I have to keep a more careful eye on her. Bailey is snarly and snappy too during her moments.


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## sharlin

They're in the sporting group for a reason. Original purpose was for an overall good gun dog with a soft mouth and a medium to high prey drive. In the book Animals In Translation the author pointed out a couple of instances involving Goldens because of their breeding and their intelligence. Are they more PRONE to bite? Probably not - just a whole bunch more of them out there.


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## cham

RedDogs said:


> Dodson is a veterinary behaviorist if I remember correctly. Very experienced dog guy, he works (or did) at a university so he is more likely to have used a reputable source for his numbers compared to others... but at the same time there aren't good statistics on dog bites. Most are suspected to go unreported.
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Dr Nick Dodson is a Veterinary Behaviorist at Tufts Vet School in Grafton MA. http://www.tufts.edu/vet/facpages/dodman_n.html
> 
> I have taken one of my GRs to him who does have aggressive behaviors towards certain people. But he also has medical issues which in my opinion are connected.
> 
> Given a choice between Dr Dodman and his former associate whom I have also seen, I much prefer Dr Alice Moon-Fanelli who is now in private practice in CT. I found Alice cared, whereas I got the distinct feeling that Dodman was more interested in getting us out of there so he could get back to his next book, or TV appearance.


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## Selli-Belle

HMMMMM... 

Very interesting thread that makes me consider things in a different light. Goldens are a very oral breed, they really like having something in their mouths in a way which is different than different kinds of dogs. People find it cute and unusual when Goldens have to pick up a toy or a shoe or a bra in order to greet someone, but I just consider it normal behavior. I have asked owners of other types of dogs if they do the same thing and their dogs don't feel the need to have something in their mouths. 

My Goldens (and my Dad's Golden (Selli's sister)) have all liked to chew on their humans, but they will only chew on their specific humans, i.e., Selli will chew on me and my Boyfriend but no-one else (we encourage them to do it). My Duffy (Golden/Sheltie) and my parent's old dog Elmo (Golden/Collie) would never even consider putting a human's body part in their mouth.

Our Goldens have all been from breeders who breed for temperament and they have been intelligent, socialized dogs, but if you had a Golden from someone who didn't care about temperament and you add to that a dog who has a tendency to use its mouth to communicate with humans, you could wind up with a group of dogs who bite more than normal.


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## PennyWhistle

Okay, I stand corrected, but now I am wondering the dogs that have been deemed aggressive, bad breeding or bad training, or no training notwithstanding, I am ****** lucky Murphy is as sweet as he is, because he required very little correction, and he's the sweetest thing I have ever known.


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## Heidi36oh

My Golden's never been biters, but I have met quite a few that are, we have one next door right now that would attack in a minute, dogs or kids don't matter he don't like them..kinda scary!


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## Stircrazy

PennyWhistle said:


> Okay, I stand corrected, but now I am wondering the dogs that have been deemed aggressive, bad breeding or bad training, or no training notwithstanding, I am ****** lucky Murphy is as sweet as he is, because he required very little correction, and he's the sweetest thing I have ever known.


My opinion is it starts with bad breeding. temperment is suposed to be one of the main qualities goldens are bread for but to often it goes by the way side so people can get perfect confermation dogs.. as long as they look good thats all they need. 

I would say lack of socilization as the next important factor, then not corecting bad behaviour. 

We rescued a golden x and it turned out to be severly dog agressive to the point it would want to kill another dog as soon as it saw it. I spent 4 months and 1000.00 in training with agression specialests (2 different ones) and neither could make any headway and had never seen a dog this bad. so we made the sad disision of returning her to the shelter as I couldn't even let her in the back yard alone as we had dogs all around us, walks were impossable ect.. we figured out there was a lot of chow mixed into her with the golden and I think there was probably more chow than golden, but I guess the spca felt it was easier to find a place for a golden Xthan it would be for a chow X.

but we ended up getting a pure golden from a breader who values temperment as much as looks and couldent be more happy with him. not an agressive bone in his body in 7 months has only play growled when playing tug of war, doesn't bark at other dogs or people, except to let me know he has to go to the bathroom. so I think there is a lot to the breading part.

Steve


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## Luci

timberwolf said:


> Also, keep in mind the number of Golden's out there as compared to the number of other breeds.
> As example, if there are 100,000 goldens out there and 1% of them bite someone, that's 1000 bites.
> Now take a breed that the numbers aren't so high, take 50,000 Poodles (and this is just an example), and if 1% of them bite someone, the number reported would be 500, much lower.
> Hence, it looks like Goldens bite more but they don't, there is just many more of them!
> Hope that makes sense - it did in my head as I was saying it



Exactly what I was thinking. 

I also agree with whoever mentioned that goldens are supposedly "come perfect" dogs. Wrong-o! I'm amazed at how many people just expect a dog to be good and well trained from the start with no effort. 

Lucy is pretty mouthy, but we've taught her what she can put in her mouth and what she can't. I really wish people would do all the research when they get a pup. Including which basics to teach their new pet ie bite inhibition etc.


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## PennyWhistle

Stircrazy said:


> I guess the spca felt it was easier to find a place for a golden Xthan it would be for a chow X.Steve


I have a feeling that is the reason there are so many "golden mixes" and "lab mixes" in the shelters, Steve. Its easier to convince an unsuspecting adopter to take a lab or golden than a chow or a pit.


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## AquaClaraCanines

I have known and had to deal first hand with nasty, mean, and shy BYB Goldens


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## Pointgold

Poorly bred Goldens with unsound temperaments are a dime a dozen. And because they are so popular, the sheer numbers would increase the bite statistics. Sad, but true. And a problem that I have been committed to fighting. (Me, the one who is "in it for the money"...)


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## PennyWhistle

I'm going to be frank, I am quite literally astounded by the responses on this thread. I would have bet my last nickel that everyone would be up in arms about this statement and would stand behind me willing to take up proverbial arms to defend our beloved Goldens. If someone had told me this would be the response, I would have called them a liar...or at the least doubted their sanity.

I am going to hug Murphy extra hard every night and thank my lucky stars we got a good one. I suppose I've been fortunate and the three Goldens I have known in my life...Murphy, Roxie and Elvis have been sweet natured and loveable. I can tell you this right now...I am now not even remotely considering a Golden rescue or fostering. I would not want to deal with a biter or an aggressive dog, under any circumstance. I'll leave that to the experts, thank you very much.


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## Pointgold

PennyWhistle said:


> I'm going to be frank, I am quite literally astounded by the responses on this thread. I would have bet my last nickel that everyone would be up in arms about this statement and would stand behind me willing to take up proverbial arms to defend our beloved Goldens. If someone had told me this would be the response, I would have called them a liar...or at the least doubted their sanity.
> 
> I am going to hug Murphy extra hard every night and thank my lucky stars we got a good one. I suppose I've been fortunate and the three Goldens I have known in my life...Murphy, Roxie and Elvis have been sweet natured and loveable. I can tell you this right now...I am now not even remotely considering a Golden rescue or fostering. I would not want to deal with a biter or an aggressive dog, under any circumstance. I'll leave that to the experts, thank you very much.


And this is a shame, really. Because good, legitimate rescues properly evaluate dogs do not randomly place dogs with unsound temperaments. There are many lovely, safe, CORRECT Goldens in need of adoption. Unfortunately they are outnumbered by those produced by irresponsible persons who do not care for anything other than the money to be made selling dogs and who, after the check is in hand, take no responsibility or accountability for what happens to them.


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## PennyWhistle

I suppose I was lucky as hell, Point. I got Murphy from a hobbyist breeder, the mother and father were in excellent condition, the place was puppy heaven and the breeder was knowledgeable and presented all the requirements I asked him for. Other than a seige of digestive issues when he was about 3 months old that required me to research canine digestion and get him on a good holistic dogfood, we've had no issues with Murphy...oh, and a little bout with an ear infection one year....we've been issue free. No excessive barking, no growling, no biting, no dog aggression. He is a dedicated cat hater, but I attribute that to my sister's hateful cat, not Old Murphy dog.


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## rappwizard

PennyWhistle said:


> Alright Quiz, you've convinced me not to advocate the drawing and quartering of Dr. Dodson, but its sure disappointing to learn that something you really believed to be a truth isn't at all. But I still would like to see him tarred and feathered! LOL


I still think you are on the right track about contacting Animal Planet. I also saw that "Breed All About It" too--we actually have it saved on TIVO. I did a google search and can find no link that backs up those statistics.

What I do find is that there appears to be a consensus that dog bites are under reported--to what degree no one knows. I can pretty much bet that every GRF member who has owned a golden who bit did not report it (I'm sure a few did, but it's a guess that most did not--could that also be said for all breeds of dogs?) I'm not about to argue whether or not goldens are biters--I think any dog is capable of biting--these are animals we are talking about--but I think the good doctor misspoke when he quoted that statistic, or he should have revealed his source--and I would be very surprised to see what his source is.

There are even concerns that the breeds identified are not even correct on the dog bite list. Is that "pit bull" really a boxer? Is that pit bull really a lab? 

This is the CDC study that a lot of people allegedly like to quote, but it was a small sample, City of Denver--there you see the German Shepherd and Chow mentioned as the two breeds most likely to bite--but the Golden is not mentioned as being in third place--looking at the table, in third was the LABRADOR Retriever (well not really, "Unknown" was third, but among "known" breeds the lab was #3 (followed by Collies and Cockers).

But it's such a small sample--just Denver? And the reason no pit bulls are mentioned is that Denver kills them--you move to Denver with a pit bull, and it must die. (what a stupid law). Off rant now!

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dog3.pdf


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## Pudden

PennyWhistle said:


> ...and bragged about their mouth being so soft they can carry around raw eggs without breaking them...


quick, someone tell the Pudden, before she swallows it whole! :doh::bowl::doh::bowl:


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## Pointgold

PennyWhistle said:


> I suppose I was lucky as hell, Point. I got Murphy from a hobbyist breeder, the mother and father were in excellent condition, the place was puppy heaven and the breeder was knowledgeable and presented all the requirements I asked him for. Other than a seige of digestive issues when he was about 3 months old that required me to research canine digestion and get him on a good holistic dogfood, we've had no issues with Murphy...oh, and a little bout with an ear infection one year....we've been issue free. No excessive barking, no growling, no biting, no dog aggression. He is a dedicated cat hater, but I attribute that to my sister's hateful cat, not Old Murphy dog.


 
If you got your dog from a "hobbyist" breeder, I wouldn't say that you were "lucky as _ _ _ _". If it had been a BYB, then yes. "Hobby Breeders" as a rule are devoted and dedicated to the breed, know and respect the standard, usually compete in one or more venues, and are there for the lifetime of the dog.


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## Debles

Most rescues screen and use a behaviorist if there are any kind of aggression issues with a rescue golden. The incidents our rescue has had were resolved by going with a home with no children after a behaviorist worked with the dog. Only once do I recall a golden had to be put down due to aggression issues.

99% of our goldens in GRRIN have been workable, loving and forgiving after they have been neglected, abused or even worse. They have unconditional love and so want and need to be loved themselves.


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## goldielocks

Pointgold said:


> And this is a shame, really. Because good, legitimate rescues properly evaluate dogs do not randomly place dogs with unsound temperaments. There are many lovely, safe, CORRECT Goldens in need of adoption. Unfortunately they are outnumbered by those produced by irresponsible persons who do not care for anything other than the money to be made selling dogs and who, after the check is in hand, take no responsibility or accountability for what happens to them.


 Ironic that you said this... because just last night a trainer that I work my golden with said basically just the same thing you said. In her star puppy program that she teaches, a 4 month old golden (repeat 4 Months) did not pass because the pup was just so aggressive with the owner as well as charging and growling at the other pups in class. She also mentioned that she was seeing more and more rescued goldens with much more serious behaviors and unsound temperaments than in the past because of the BYB's just trying to make $$$.


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## Lucky's mom

I think its bunk! The same sites that stress Goldens biting ...tend to pad pit bulls as "perceived" biters.

I've met ONE aggressive Golden and several pitties charging tp kill so I say they are nuts.


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## AquaClaraCanines

My mauled arm, hands and leg say it's not bunk. Perhaps that one statistic is not correct, but people are living in a dream world believing no Golden would bite anyone. They have the power to do serious damage, too. 

Greyhounds are pretty high on my list of biters, but it's almost always space issues due to their regulated lives in the racing world. It can be cured with conditioning and the common sense to not let a child climb on a sleeping hound. 

We ask a lot of dogs, and it's amazing to me how few of them do bite!

My list, from MY experience would be something like:

Chows
Akitas
Chi's
Australian Shepherds- are there any that are not psychotic or at least have a screw loose?
Toy poodles
GSDs (mostly due to human idiocy, fear issues, and bad breeding)
Border Collies (what a load of nasty ass man-biting ones I met in the UK!! At obedience shows!!)
Great Danes
Goldens
Labs
Doxies (smooth only) for sure

Dealing with countless rescue dogs, often the most extreme and hopeless cases, I have been bit far more than the average person. I am not afraid of dogs or of being bitten. 

Sometimes I have had to let a feral, extreme spooky dog bite me. They do cluster bites, nothing more than bruising and little teeth marks and my hand a bit red. No blood usually. They are just terrified. Usually blow their glands too. I keep doing what I need to do, quietly. They eventually learn that biting doesnt work and that people are not scary. It's hard working with dogs that are not tame. I have no intention of ever doing it again.

I used to take in the nuts. Now that I have a child, there's just no way.


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## Pointgold

I do not agree with your list in total. Nor the order. Not having pit/pit mixes on it is also, IMO, incorrect... These sorts of lists are as much of a problem as the dogs themselves, IMO.


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## Mileysmom

Just to brag for a moment...those dogs featured are Miley's Grandmother, Grandfather & many other "relatives" before Miley was born from Beechwood Goldens on that clip...No matter who's golden I have seen....I haven't found one yet that I don't find beautiful!


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## hotel4dogs

Good, I hope they continue to publicize that goldens bite. And that they're aggressive, and shed a lot, and have all kinds of health problems.
Maybe then they will be less popular, and people will stop breeding them for just money. Then the only people left breeding will be the ones who care about the breed.
Ok, sorry, I was dreaming.


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## Nicole74

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Australian Shepherds- are there any that are not psychotic or at least have a screw loose?


 
Awww, my Annie is so sweet. She has a much better temperament then Bailey. I just got Annie from the humane society. She was brought in as a stray. 

Bailey was a byb buy. I love her to pieces even though we have had a rough start with her.

Edit to add that my Annie will lick you to death! LOL She is a licker, not a biter and she LOVES children!!!


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## Laurie

All 4 of my Goldens have been or are from BYB. I have been truly blessed as none of my dogs have ever shown any kind of agression toward any person or any dog. None of them have ever given any indication they were inclined to bite. We have socialized them, taken them to obedience classes and IMO, they are extremely well balanced dogs. I could go on and on about how wonderful they are but it would take me too long and they are waiting patiently for us to take them out for their morning walk!!!!


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## Stircrazy

PennyWhistle said:


> I have a feeling that is the reason there are so many "golden mixes" and "lab mixes" in the shelters, Steve. Its easier to convince an unsuspecting adopter to take a lab or golden than a chow or a pit.


thats exactly what I said...

Steve


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## Nicole74

I socialized Bailey well and taken her to kindergarten and obedience class. I take her out 2-3 times a week to public place, mostly the beach during the summer months, which is not easy for me with a spinal cord injury. I obedience train her at home and she gets exercised well. I did everything right and it still didn't help with her temperament. However, she was attacked and bitten by a dog when on a walk at 4 months.

I guess Annie needs some work on not herding Bailey and she is afraid of really tall people, especially tall men. Annie has come a long way though since she has been home. Annie was deathly afraid of men and tall people when she first came here. Annie now will go up to people after meeting them. It takes about 1/2 hour for Annie to warm up to strangers. Once she has met them, she is fine after that. Annie has not bitten anyone since she has been home with us. I obedience train and trick train Annie. I love training and working with my dogs. I find it very rewarding.

I personally believe that any dog no matter what breed has the potential to bite and needs to be watched, especially around children. I would never put any full trust in any animal though. All animals will bite when scared.


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## Stircrazy

Lucky's mom said:


> I think its bunk! The same sites that stress Goldens biting ...tend to pad pit bulls as "perceived" biters.


ah but pittys are generaly percived biters.. because when the do bit it is generaly way more serious than other dogs they are raised to a mythical level. but the amount of bites against humans from pitties is way less than the amount of bits from other dogs. 

a proper bread pitty is one of the best family dogs you can have as they are bread not to bite humans in any situation as the handlers dont need to get bit when breaking up a dog fite. but like any dog they can be wrecked by bad breading, bad handling and so on.

we almost rescued a pit befor the golden chow mix but it had an issue with cats, we visited it for about 6 hours did some walks, played ect.. it was so gentle with my kids it wasn't even funny, but would kill a squeeky ball in 3 seconds flat I'll admits I used to think pits were evil but the more of them I meet the more I like them.

Steve


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## Karen519

*My Smooch*

My Golden Ret. Girl, Smooch, is quite possibly the SWEETEST dog I've ever known.

I can't picture her biting anyone!


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## AquaClaraCanines

I clearly said MY list from MY experience. I've never once met a human aggressive pit bull.


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## Selli-Belle

A golden with a "correct" temperament is very unlikely to bite even in the most trying situation. We had/have a forum member who told of a story of a kid sticking a pencil up a golden's nose and the dog did not bite. I don't think it is a matter of training, you need to train them to cooperate, but, except in very extreme cases, a dog is born with the tendency to bite or the tendency never to use its mouth aggressively with humans.

Breeding is key and if Goldens become less popular due to a belief they have are biters, I can't see that its a bad thing.


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## PennyWhistle

I know how you feel Laurie. Murphy is so sweet natured and soft, I can't imagine him biting anyone. He doesn't even show any aggression to anything other than the confounded cats he can't seem to keep out of his yard. He's trusting and so confident of us that when you talk to him, he looks you right in the eyes, and listens so intently. Its hilarious to talk to him and have him sitting on the floor, looking up, keeping eye contact, because he's never known anything but love and affection and security. I don't think he's even been swatted for infractions. A harsh tone is enough to correct him, and those are few and far between.

I can't remember who mentioned luck and the hobbyist vs. BYB, but I wouldn't be totally opposed to getting a dog from a BYB providing he was knowledgeable about the breed, and could answer my questions with intelligence, and the puppies were clean and well taken care of, and the parents were both on site and looked healthy. I would however, never get a puppy from a petstore or a puppy mill. And thats being honest...when I go to get a dog, I do a lot of research before hand, and I pretty much know the warning signs of places to avoid. I might have been born at night, but I wasn't born LAST night. 

Our breeder was a hobbyist, I am certain.


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## PennyWhistle

Selli, I was trimming Murphy's toenails last week, and nicked him...He yelped, it bled, I cried...but he didn't bite, and he was right beside my face. He forgave me, licked my face, and I had the groomer finish the job.


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## Nicole74

AquaClaraCanines said:


> I clearly said MY list from MY experience. I've never once met a human aggressive pit bull.


Me either. I've only seen really nice ones. Even if they've gotten away from their owners and are running loose. When I use to run, most days we would encounter loose running dogs that would follow us.:uhoh:

Did I tell you that I just love my Aussie! : Annie is the sweetest pup and we love her kisses. You would love her too. Annie has a very soft side to her. She is pretty submissive too to us and loves belly rubs. She closes her eyes and groans when she is getting scratched.


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## AquaClaraCanines

Your Aussie looks like a DOLL! I have to admit I really like her. 

They drive me insane at dog training because they bark the entire way around the agility course lol


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## Nicole74

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Your Aussie looks like a DOLL! I have to admit I really like her.
> 
> They drive me insane at dog training because they bark the entire way around the agility course lol


That's funny.lol I didn't think they were barkers. Annie is sooooo quiet. She will only bark if someone is up at our front door if she doesn't know who it is. She does make cute groaning noises when being scratched. Bailey barks a whole heck of a lot more then Annie.


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## AquaClaraCanines

Maybe she's got Golden in there ;-)


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## Florabora22

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Maybe she's got Golden in there ;-)


I totally thought Annie was a golden/aussie mix when I saw her pic. I once tried rescuing an aussie who... was a total nutcase, and she only resembled Annie in her coloring. Annie is SO pretty!


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## AquaClaraCanines

I thought the exact same thing


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## Ranger

PennyWhistle, so you're never going to even consider a rescue golden because they "might" bite but you'll consider a BYB? That seems unbelievable to me. Most dogs end up in rescue/shelters because ignorant owners or bad situations. There was a golden in the shelter here that was 5 years old and a perfect gentle dog. He ended up in the shelter because his owners got a divorce and no one wanted him anymore. My own dog ended up in rescue after being chained to a tree for the first nine months of his life. How was that his fault?

Most of the goldens (any breed actually) that end up in shelters originate from BYB - the people who breed dogs for money or other dumb reasons...so instead of rescuing a dog and giving him a second chance, you'll just go right to the source? 

I thought the stigma of rescue dogs being "bad", "mean" or having done something to end up there was starting to fade out. How disappointing that that attitude is still around.


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## Mssjnnfer

Ranger said:


> PennyWhistle, so you're never going to even consider a rescue golden because they "might" bite but you'll consider a BYB? That seems unbelievable to me. Most dogs end up in rescue/shelters because ignorant owners or bad situations. There was a golden in the shelter here that was 5 years old and a perfect gentle dog. He ended up in the shelter because his owners got a divorce and no one wanted him anymore. My own dog ended up in rescue after being chained to a tree for the first nine months of his life. How was that his fault?
> 
> Most of the goldens (any breed actually) that end up in shelters originate from BYB - the people who breed dogs for money or other dumb reasons...so instead of rescuing a dog and giving him a second chance, you'll just go right to the source?
> 
> I thought the stigma of rescue dogs being "bad", "mean" or having done something to end up there was starting to fade out. How disappointing that that attitude is still around.


I completely agree with this post. 100% what I was thinking.


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## PennyWhistle

Ahh, but you just added to the whole myth of the bad shelter dogs all through this discourse. I came into the forum to talk about an article I had seen on Animal Planet, and most everyone who posted here had a horror story to tell me about a rescue dog, or a shelter dog. I'm not an idiot. I'm not a first time dog owner. I'm not a child. I know the warning signs when I see them, and if I wanted to rescue a dog, I would get it. If I want a puppy, I will get it. 

So, what should happen to those BYB puppies, folks? Let them die in the yards? Wait until they're dropped over your fence like the poor lady in the other thread? If a shelter dog can be rehabilitated...then a BYB puppy can be raised to be a perfectly good dog too.

Here's the way this thread went...I started a thread about Aggression in Golden Retrievers, and mentioned I found it easy to disbelieve after having owned and known several Goldens. Many of you jumped forward with horror stories and bold statements about how it could be easily true...and most of those examples were regarding shelter dogs and rescues. I stated that now I was rethinking a rescue or shelter dog, and then you tell me that I am perpetuating the problem. Would I go seeking a BYB? Absolutely not. Could I say I would never get one? Abso-freaking-lutely not. I can't say what the circumstances are regarding getting a puppy or dog from ANY situation. Hells bells, I can't say I wouldn't pick up one from the side of the road if I thought it was abandoned and you can't tell me you wouldn't either

This superior attitude is disquieting...and offputting.


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## fostermom

You do realize the the rescue/shelter dogs came from BYBs, right? The one I cited was an owner surrender to the shelter. Where exactly did you think that dog originally came from? A reputable breeder? A hobby breeder? Or a backyard breeder?


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## PennyWhistle

You can sit there and say that 100% of the shelter dogs or rescues come from Back Yard Breeders? I'd like to see the documentation on that one, please. 

Again, I am not stupid. I am not naive, and I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. I know ****** good and well that backyard breeders are a scourge and are to the detriment of the breed they churn out.

You can preach to me, but I am not your target audience. I neutered Murphy when he was old enough because I know breeding dogs should only be to the advancement of the breed. He's not a show quality dog, he's a nice field golden. But I don't like this arrogance that you are the only ones with knowledge, because you aren't.


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## PennyWhistle

To be honest, I am sorry I even registered here and started this thread. Its not the forum I thought it was. I was actually looking for the old Chat Golden site, and I knew it had been revamped. I thought this was it. After the thread was in full swing, I realized my mistake. I don't know you people, I really wanted to talk to old friends about what I considered a travesty. I'll see this thread through, but I won't be hanging around too long. Its not a pleasant forum for me.


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## rappwizard

PennyWhistle said:


> Ahh, but you just added to the whole myth of the bad shelter dogs all through this discourse. I came into the forum to talk about an article I had seen on Animal Planet, and most everyone who posted here had a horror story to tell me about a rescue dog, or a shelter dog. I'm not an idiot. I'm not a first time dog owner. I'm not a child. I know the warning signs when I see them, and if I wanted to rescue a dog, I would get it. If I want a puppy, I will get it.
> 
> So, what should happen to those BYB puppies, folks? Let them die in the yards? Wait until they're dropped over your fence like the poor lady in the other thread? If a shelter dog can be rehabilitated...then a BYB puppy can be raised to be a perfectly good dog too.
> 
> Here's the way this thread went...I started a thread about Aggression in Golden Retrievers, and mentioned I found it easy to disbelieve after having owned and known several Goldens. Many of you jumped forward with horror stories and bold statements about how it could be easily true...and most of those examples were regarding shelter dogs and rescues. I stated that now I was rethinking a rescue or shelter dog, and then you tell me that I am perpetuating the problem. Would I go seeking a BYB? Absolutely not. Could I say I would never get one? Abso-freaking-lutely not. I can't say what the circumstances are regarding getting a puppy or dog from ANY situation. Hells bells, I can't say I wouldn't pick up one from the side of the road if I thought it was abandoned and you can't tell me you wouldn't either
> 
> This superior attitude is disquieting...and offputting.


I am also the only one, so far, to state that I feel there are no statistics to back this up, and that it would be entirely appropriate, IMHO, to contact Animal Planet and ask the vet to reveal his source. I can not locate a source for this information.


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## PennyWhistle

I still disbelieve it Rappwizard. I also talked to a friend of mine who is a Vet Tech and she actually laughed out loud. She said with all the dogs she's dealt with in her ten years of working with dogs, she's encountered one disagreeable Golden....amid the hundred shepherds, schnauzers, pits, Rotts and Doberman.

I think Dodson is full of hooey.


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## Ranger

So what exactly was the purpose of this thread? You asked people their opinions/experiences about goldens because you didn't believe the program's stats about goldens. People responded with tales of aggressive/biting goldens and pointed out that it's mostly a NUMBERS game. Due to the popularity of the breed and every joe-blow breeding a backyard golden for money because they KNOW the breed is popular, you get some poorly trained, poorly bred goldens thrown into the mix. Again, because there are SO many golden retrievers out there, the stats are going to be a little skewed. If you have 200 dobermans and 50% of them are biters - that's 100 biting dobermans. If you have 1000 golden retrievers and only 20% of them are biters...that's 200 goldens. Gasp!! There are more biting golden retrievers than there are dobermans!!!1!!

As for the "bad shelter dogs" myth - most of those dogs have come from backyard breeders or bad situations, as I stated above. Bad situations like, "we bought the puppy but now it's big and not cute anymore" ,"we didn't realize how expensive or how much work dogs were", "our kids won't walk him and this is going to teach them a lesson", and even "i don't want him anymore". I've seen and heard all these excuses for giving away dogs as young as 7 months and as old as 12 yrs. But you won't ever consider rescuing and saving some of these old souls because SOME people have had bad experiences with rescues? 

It's funny you listen to some of what people are saying and ignore the rest. Some people have had bad experiences rescuing and that proves that all rescues are bad. Yet people are telling you about some aggressive goldens and you "refuse" to believe them? So you hear what you want to hear and ignore the rest?

Good for you for neutering your dog. If more people did this, there'd be less dogs in the world and less sitting on death row. Unfortunately the solution to getting rid of BYB and puppy mills is a long and complex one. Right now, NOT buying from them is the best offense people have. You buy one to "save him", and the breeder breeds more litters and more pups end up in homes where they're deemed "disposable" or "unwanted". Rescuing a BYB dog that ends up in a shelter is a different thing - the money is NOT going into the BYB pocket. It's going to a rescue/shelter where they'll be spending the money to neuter/spay/save other animals.

As for your point that people are saying all shelter dogs are BYB dogs...I don't see anyone that' saying that. I myself said SOME are, some are from bad/neglectful (note I'm not saying abusive) situations and some are given up for the dumbest reasons possible (again, see above). Some are purebreds, some are "accidents", and yes, some are BYB. Again, I'm not sure what your point was.

But I probably wrote this post in vain for 2 reasons. One being that you only seem to hear what you want to hear; what will effectively back up your pre-conceived notions and the rest you discard. Two being that you said you weren't going to hang around here due to the "attitude" and "high-handedness" of the community. in that case...:wavey:


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## PennyWhistle

Oh, I've read it all, commented on most of it. Weighed, evaluated, considered and disseminated. 

I didn't realize threads had to have a "purpose." Does this rule apply to everyone, or just some? Does it only apply to the threads where the Original poster doesn't fall over backwards at your brilliance?

I really don't see where you can make such an assumption that I am ignoring advice. Quite frankly, I wasn't looking for advice. If I want advice, I will go to someone who's opinion I trust...someone I KNOW will give me sound advice, and it won't come from a discussion forum where I don't know any of the people, or their credentials. As far as I know, you can be so full of bull that no one can believe a word you say. I've been polite for the most part, but I find you an unmitigated ass.

Its a shame that "the community" has a spokesperson in you. I imagine your attitude runs off a lot of people. By the way, I dont plan on sticking around. I am waiting to hear from one of the other members in IM regarding the forum I was really looking for. And as an aside, do you come bulldozing into all threads, or just the ones where people seem to be having a good time?

Apparently, you don't read all of the responses either, Jack. Fostermom is the one who stated shelter and rescues all come from back yard breeders.


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## Ranger

I never said anything about advice. I never got the impression you were looking for advice, just opinions and experiences. Like you said, you never asked for advice - you were created a thread for discussion purposes and asked people what they thought about the stats. No advice needed. No advice given.

It just seemed bizarre to me that after 8 pages of people giving detailed descriptions of their experiences of aggressive goldens and the reasons why they think some goldens are aggressive, you shrugged it off because your vet tech laughed and said she'd never dealt with any. That's one person out of how many on this thread...the thread you created to discuss aggressive goldens. You didn't seem to want to believe it, people backed it up, and then your vet tech said she'd never dealt with any so you believe her. That's great she never had to deal with any - hopefully you guys are lucky enough to live an area where there aren't many BYB so the risk of running across an aggressive golden is minimal.

I am definitely not the community spokesperson. I defended the community when you lumped everyone together and said GRF has a bad attitude. I'm still not sure where this bad attitude is coming from, unless you meant just me. Which doesn't really bother me...because, like you, I don't take into account what everyone tells me on a messageboard. Some people are just so full of bull, you know?


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## AquaClaraCanines

You are taking this way too personally. We are a pretty friendly bunch, and lots of the Chatters are here. Jump in and post pics of your pup in the pics forum- and you will find what you are looking for. This forum has come together to save and transport dogs across the country and even across the border. We have our bad apples and we have our disagreements like any "family" but we welcome new comers happily. So share about your pup... offer advice... or whatever. Don't base it all on this one thread


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## PennyWhistle

Actually no, I don't live in an area devoid of BYB, Ranger. I live in the epicenter of ignorance, rural south. You'd be hard pressed to find a dog in ANY other venue than a BYB here. I had to travel 90 miles to a large area to get Murphy from what I think was a hobbyist...he could have been a BYB too, though I didn't get that impression.

I didn't say that I discounted every piece of information or opinion given after having talked to my friend. I mentioned the thread to her, and she disagreed...had she been here, she would have voiced her disagreement in no uncertain terms.

I thought the 8 pages was a good thing. I thought keeping a thread going was good for the forum, as it gives people a chance to express their views, disagree, agree, counter, etc. This is not the first forum I have participated in, and I have had the burden of having my own for several years, though not one devoted to dogs. I know its hard to get people interested in posting and keeping threads alive is difficult at best. Often they seem to peter out and die off.

I'm sorry if I was overly prickly, and it was never my intent to insult your nice forum.


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## PennyWhistle

And AquaClara, I know this is a nice forum from the thread where the poor lady came out and found the mother dog and 7 pups dumped in her yard and someone in the same state offered to help her with the puppies and placement...thats not fake concern or lip service, thats genuine caring.


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## fostermom

Reputable breeders screen their adopters and they take back their dogs/puppies for the life of that animal. They also know where their puppies are. I am pretty sure there is the chance that .1% of the purebred dogs that end up in shelters are from reputable breeders. The other 99.9% of them are from backyard breeders.

You refer to us as a disagreeable bunch, but you have haven't been the most agreeable poster either. It's like you came here with your guns blazing looking for a fight.


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## PennyWhistle

Sorry, but don't project onto me, FosterMom. I wasn't blazing guns and if I was, you'd know it for certain. Furthermore, if I was looking for a "fight" I woudlnt' have used that topic, or that format, or worded it anywhere nearly as conversationally as I did. I didn't have an issue, didn't have an agenda. For the most part, I was met with people who did have an agenda, and try to tell me differently. 

I thought it was a nice lively conversation til the last page or two.

Oh wait, I read back up...you're the one with the condescending tone when I was making a joke about bump biting on the butt. That explains a lot. From now on when I make a joke, provided I find anything to joke about, I will use a cute little emoticon to dennote laughter, then there won't be any doubt.


----------



## Emily&Brody

I know I'm a noob but my Golden is a rescue and he's sweet as pie. He gets along with everyone. All my dogs are dreams to work with. I actually went up to the rescue today and most of the dogs are friendly and awesome. Some aren't, though. 

Every dog has the potential to bite. I'm a groomer, and I get bitten a lot (mostly little nips from small dogs) because I'm putting them in a strange situation and a lot of them are fearful. I let them bite it out and a lot of times they never bite again. My knuckles used to be constantly cut up from my Toy Poodle biting me on the hands while I groomed her, and now she sits like an angel. It doesn't mean she's aggressive, it means she was scared. Dogs don't have the ability to tell us they don't like something. 

I've been attacked by a pit bull. Say what you will, but when they bite, it's terrifying. My bad bites have mostly been from pits and lab mixes. It doesn't have much to do with breed, it has to do with poor breeding and poor owners. After the pit attacked me, the owner lazily said that the dog was aggressive. Gee, thanks.

I guess my point is, any dog can bite. Don't write off shelter dogs and rescues because of that.


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## PennyWhistle

Nice response Emily. Its great to hear from someone from the grooming point of view.

Truth be told, and not trying to wind anyone up here, I would rescue a Golden...or a houseful of them if I had the space. I've often thought Murphy could use a companion because he likes to play so much. I just don't have the space right now to enlarge my canine family.

But when I do....


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## Emily&Brody

My dad actually is getting a rescue as well. I was so proud of him. Rescue dogs are great. They have so much love to give.


----------



## PennyWhistle

Well, we lavish so much love and affection on Murphy, another dog could benefit from it and we've often talked about a breed rescue, but I would want to know A LOT of info before taking it in...Murphy doesn't have a mean bone in his body, and I wouldn't want him mistreated in any form...but I guess thats what trial visits are for, eh?


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## Mssjnnfer

PennyWhistle said:


> Truth be told, and not trying to wind anyone up here, I would rescue a Golden...or a houseful of them if I had the space.





PennyWhistle said:


> I can tell you this right now...I am now not even remotely considering a Golden rescue or fostering. I would not want to deal with a biter or an aggressive dog, under any circumstance. I'll leave that to the experts, thank you very much.


...

:scratchch

Interesting.


----------



## PennyWhistle

*sigh*

I would have thought this was obvious, but I will explain like I am talking to children. 

When I posted this thread, I thought it was my old forum Chat Golden. I saw the first thread, saw Hooch's name mentioned, he was someone I knew there, and I knew several others fairly well, and some extremely well. I've been away for over a year, involved in something called Second Life, which took up most my on line time.

I saw the Animal Planet program. I came here, thinking it was my old forum, where the people knew me, knew my humor, knew my posting style. I made the post.

I was corrected, with great gusto and vehemence. I was put in my place. I got defensive. Since people were mentioning Rescues and Shelter dogs mostly being the aggressive types, I made a flippant remark that I would NEVER rescue one and risk being bitten.

I don't suppose you, Jennifer, have ever done that? Never been a smart ***? Never said something you didn't mean? Never acted like a brat? Good for you, but I did. I probably will again.

Now, how interesting is that?


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## Pointgold

:thinking:I would suggest that anyone who doesn't like this forum simply not participate. Simple, at least to me.


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## PennyWhistle

You know, I actually know what its like to be a member of an established forum, and have some interloper come in, acting like they know it all, and having the feeling of superiority to put them in their place, slap them down, and show them they know nothing. I was on the other end of this in a forum once that had to do with Ireland and the Irish. I just didn't figure in a forum dedicated to the most loving dog imagineable I would encounter it.

Again, I stand corrected.


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## fostermom

Nice. Keep talking to us like we are children. Maybe we will understand you more clearly. 

I'm sorry this isn't your old chat forum. I wish you could find your old friends who would get your humor, because it's apparent that we aren't smart enough to do so. Besides, they all obviously agreed with your opinions and thoughts and that's what you believed you would find here again. Those of us who are members of GRF are just stupid, rude folks who just don't get it.


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## Mssjnnfer

PennyWhistle said:


> *sigh*
> 
> I would have thought this was obvious, but I will explain like I am talking to children.
> 
> When I posted this thread, I thought it was my old forum Chat Golden. I saw the first thread, saw Hooch's name mentioned, he was someone I knew there, and I knew several others fairly well, and some extremely well. I've been away for over a year, involved in something called Second Life, which took up most my on line time.
> 
> I saw the Animal Planet program. I came here, thinking it was my old forum, where the people knew me, knew my humor, knew my posting style. I made the post.
> 
> I was corrected, with great gusto and vehemence. I was put in my place. I got defensive. Since people were mentioning Rescues and Shelter dogs mostly being the aggressive types, I made a flippant remark that I would NEVER rescue one and risk being bitten.
> 
> I don't suppose you, Jennifer, have ever done that? Never been a smart ass? Never said something you didn't mean? Never acted like a brat? Good for you, but I did. I probably will again.
> 
> Now, how interesting is that?


So... I'm just wondering, and please forgive my childish mind for doing so... but which statement didn't you mean? The one about never rescuing a Golden... the one about definitely rescuing a Golden... or the ones about how sweet Murphy is?

I just don't want to be mistaken again! I hope you'll understand.


----------



## PennyWhistle

Pointgold said:


> :thinking:I would suggest that anyone who doesn't like this forum simply not participate. Simple, at least to me.


It is rather simple, isn't it? And I probably won't. I don't find this forum overly friendly, to be honest. Some of the people seem very nice, but more are not. I love Golden Retrievers, and was sincerely looking for a place to talk about something I felt strongly about, but I guess I will look on. I don't expect to be coddled, or anyone to hold my hand, but jumping down the throat of fledgling members isn't really conducive to encouraging people to stick around. I would imagine this is a smallish forum, and I would also imagine it gets stagnant from time to time. I would think new members would be treated a little better to get them to stick around, but perhaps you know better than I do. Discussion forums, by and large, are old hat and passe, and making them unpleasant and unwelcoming is a sure way to bring about their demise, Point.


----------



## PennyWhistle

Mssjnnfer said:


> So... I'm just wondering, and please forgive my childish mind for doing so... but which statement didn't you mean? The one about never rescuing a Golden... the one about definitely rescuing a Golden... or the ones about how sweet Murphy is?
> 
> I just don't want to be mistaken again! I hope you'll understand.


Oh, I certainly do understand. It took me a minute to respond because Murphy got all aggressive on me and almost chewed my arm off. I'm going to place him in a shelter tomorrow, and then go get a couple of pups from the Amish whereupon I am going to raise them, brother and sister, and let them breed so the kids can witness the miracle of birth. Then when I can't unload the pups, I am going to set up a roadside stand, and give them away with tomatoes and corn. Of course, I am going to keep one male pup, not have him neutered and let him roam the neighborhood impregnating all the females, so that the stray dogs in the neighborhood will be much more attractive.


----------



## Mssjnnfer

PennyWhistle said:


> Oh, I certainly do understand. It took me a minute to respond because Murphy got all aggressive on me and almost chewed my arm off. I'm going to place him in a shelter tomorrow, and then go get a couple of pups from the Amish whereupon I am going to raise them, brother and sister, and let them breed so the kids can witness the miracle of birth. Then when I can't unload the pups, I am going to set up a roadside stand, and give them away with tomatoes and corn. Of course, I am going to keep one male pup, not have him neutered and let him roam the neighborhood impregnating all the females, so that the stray dogs in the neighborhood will be much more attractive.


Okay... just to clarify... was this another one of those smart *** moments you're talking about?

I'm a bit too childish to tell.


----------



## fostermom

PennyWhistle said:


> It is rather simple, isn't it? And I probably won't. I don't find this forum overly friendly, to be honest. Some of the people seem very nice, but more are not. I love Golden Retrievers, and was sincerely looking for a place to talk about something I felt strongly about, but I guess I will look on. I don't expect to be coddled, or anyone to hold my hand, but jumping down the throat of fledgling members isn't really conducive to encouraging people to stick around. I would imagine this is a smallish forum, and I would also imagine it gets stagnant from time to time. I would think new members would be treated a little better to get them to stick around, but perhaps you know better than I do. Discussion forums, by and large, are old hat and passe, and making them unpleasant and unwelcoming is a sure way to bring about their demise, Point.



LOL. Tsk tsk Pointgold. Is this an old friend of yours?

Shame on us for being so rude. It's us, not PennyWhistle. He/she has been nothing but a sincere gentleperson with impeccable manners......


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## PennyWhistle

Oh FosterMommy, you're just ****** off from the early pages of the thread when I laughed at you thinking I was serious about the butt bump. And no, I don't know any of the people here.


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## Pointgold

I have no idea who this is, or what the previous screen name was, and frankly, it doesn't matter to me.
I just figure that if someone doesn't like it here, they should just stop posting (as they said they were going to do hours ago) rather than further alienating themselves by saying how terrible this place is and how unfriendly/unkind the members are.


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## Nicole74

PennyWhistle said:


> *sigh*
> 
> I would have thought this was obvious, but I will explain like I am talking to children.


Wow, how classy. I'm sorry you feel that your better then everyone else. You are the one who stated two totally different statements. So, what is the truth?

Any animal has the potential to bite when feeling threatened or frightened.




> Originally Posted by *PennyWhistle*
> _Truth be told, and not trying to wind anyone up here, I would rescue a Golden...or a houseful of them if I had the space._
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PennyWhistle*
> _I can tell you this right now...I am now not even remotely considering a Golden rescue or fostering. I would not want to deal with a biter or an aggressive dog, under any circumstance. I'll leave that to the experts, thank you very much._


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## PennyWhistle

No, No...."Jen" I was serious, sweetie. Once I staunch the flow of blood, I plan to toss little Murphy out, blood on his muzzle and all...then he's off to the pound tomorrow.


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## Mssjnnfer

Penny, I have a friend in Kentucky. If you could just let me know what shelter you're taking Murphy to we'd both really appreciate it. She loves rescuing animals, and would LOVE a Golden! 

Thanks!


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## ButtersPeople

Stop reinforcing bad behaviors by acknowledging them - Works on people as well as it works on dogs


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo

PennyWhistle said:


> To be honest, I am sorry I even registered here and started this thread. Its not the forum I thought it was. I was actually looking for the old Chat Golden site, and I knew it had been revamped. I thought this was it. After the thread was in full swing, I realized my mistake. I don't know you people, I really wanted to talk to old friends about what I considered a travesty. I'll see this thread through, but I won't be hanging around too long. Its not a pleasant forum for me.


*********** and ChatEvo is gone...I remember CG with fondness. Sorry...I forgot they blank out the old name. May I ask your username on CG? I was there for years.

I need to read this thread. I'm a day late and a dollar short as always.


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## PennyWhistle

Point, my first post in this forum was this thread. I have never been a member here, under any name, at any time. I don't hide under guises, but if you have that problem here, that explains a lot.

I have seriously ****** up what I had hoped would be a nice place to post about my dog. I probably ought to count my losses and run for it, though that really goes against my grain. I would rather stick around and win every one of you over with my wit and charm.

I really can be a fun person, I love Goldens, I thought I was home.


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## PennyWhistle

Kimm..I cried when Oakley's Dad told me Hooch was dead. He was such a good friend, such a nice man. I came here looking for him...he had such gorgeous Goldens. Kimm...my name was Penny, there. I was in the same time as Summer's Mom...remember her? Her real name was Jan. We both got our dogs at the same time, and about had the same digestive issues. Summer was so tiny, and when she started to grow, she really blossomed.


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## fostermom

ButtersPeople said:


> Stop reinforcing bad behaviors by acknowledging them - Works on people as well as it works on dogs


Good advice ButtersPeople! 

PG, I wasn't actually insinuating you knew this person. They just acted so familiar with you, sort of like he/she has been acting with the rest of us. That's all it is, an act.


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## Pointgold

fostermom said:


> LOL. Tsk tsk Pointgold. Is this an old friend of yours?
> 
> Shame on us for being so rude. It's us, not PennyWhistle. He/she has been nothing but a sincere gentleperson with impeccable manners......


Yeah. Me and PeeWhist are like THIS 
You know me, lovin' those BYB's and all...


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## fostermom

Pointgold said:


> Yeah. Me and PeeWhist are like THIS
> You know me, lovin' those BYB's and all...


See my post above this. LOL, we were posting at the same time.


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## PennyWhistle

"PG, I wasn't actually insinuating you knew this person. They just acted so familiar with you, sort of like he/she has been acting with the rest of us. That's all it is, an act. "


Ohhhhh...now I get it, I didn't come in and show proper respect. I didn't kowtow, or kiss any butt. I had the temerity to use people's names when addressing them. Shame on me! Shame on me!

Forgive me, but I actually thought it was polite to address someone by using their names. I had no idea my using names would be so offensive. Perhaps you should Sticky Topic that one, FosterMother. I won't call you FosterMom because thats just too familiar. Maybe you should also furnish new people with a list of those Solid Gold Members so they don't dare address you familiarly, or use your names, or disagree with anything you say.

And I would prefer that you call me Miss Whistle during my tenure.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo

PennyWhistle said:


> Kimm..I cried when Oakley's Dad told me Hooch was dead. He was such a good friend, such a nice man. I came here looking for him...he had such gorgeous Goldens. Kimm...my name was Penny, there. I was in the same time as Summer's Mom...remember her? Her real name was Jan. We both got our dogs at the same time, and about had the same digestive issues. Summer was so tiny, and when she started to grow, she really blossomed.


I remember Jan. I met Hooch online in 2003. His birthday is coming up soon. JPD has since passed away, too. I'm not sure JPD posted as much over there. It's sad to think about how many wonderful people I have met online that are no longer with us. So many Goldens have passed away, too.


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## Ranger

Umitigated *** speaking here - I can't believe this thread...I love how pennywhistle listens to what she wants to hear and ignores the rest. I especially love the cute, little underhanded comments by calling people "sweet" and "children"...yeah, we're the idiots here. Oh Peewhist, you must be an incredibly fun person in real life. Your posting style certainly represents that.

Blaming your contradictory posts as "humour" when people call you on them and then making it sound like we're too stupid to understand is really nice. Why not just admit you made a bold statement, got called on it, then chickened out instead of following through?

I love the editing job you did on the post ahead of mine a few pages back to clarify and change your points to make it seem like I was the idiot. Real mature.


----------



## Pointgold

PennyWhistle said:


> "PG, I wasn't actually insinuating you knew this person. They just acted so familiar with you, sort of like he/she has been acting with the rest of us. That's all it is, an act. "
> 
> 
> Ohhhhh...now I get it, I didn't come in and show proper respect. I didn't kowtow, or kiss any butt. I had the temerity to use people's names when addressing them. Shame on me! Shame on me!
> 
> Forgive me, but I actually thought it was polite to address someone by using their names. I had no idea my using names would be so offensive. Perhaps you should Sticky Topic that one, FosterMother. I won't call you FosterMom because thats just too familiar. Maybe you should also furnish new people with a list of those Solid Gold Members so they don't dare address you familiarly, or use your names, or disagree with anything you say.


 
A post like this is designed to do nothing but stir things up. You have not used people's screen names, you've used whatever version of them you've chosen as familiar/cute/annoying, whatever. 
This is ridiculous.


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## PennyWhistle

Ranger said:


> Umitigated *** speaking here - I can't believe this thread...I love how pennywhistle listens to what she wants to hear and ignores the rest. I especially love the cute, little underhanded comments by calling people "sweet" and "children"...yeah, we're the idiots here. Oh Peewhist, you must be an incredibly fun person in real life. Your posting style certainly represents that.
> 
> Blaming your contradictory posts as "humour" when people call you on them and then making it sound like we're too stupid to understand is really nice. Why not just admit you made a bold statement, got called on it, then chickened out instead of following through?
> 
> I love the editing job you did on the post ahead of mine a few pages back to clarify and change your points to make it seem like I was the idiot. Real mature.


I don't know what you're talking about. THe only "edit" job I did was when I added something to the end of posts. If you are an idiot, its all your doing, not mine, sport.

Kimm...let me give you my e-mail address via IM...I don't expect to be allowed to remain here much longer, I feel a booting coming on. But I would like to talk more to you, if you please.


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## Mssjnnfer

PennyWhistle said:


> I don't know what you're talking about. THe only "edit" job I did was when I added something to the end of posts. If you are an idiot, its all your doing, not mine, sport.
> 
> Kimm...let me give you my e-mail address via IM...I don't expect to be allowed to remain here much longer, I feel a booting coming on. But I would like to talk more to you, if you please.


... I'm wondering why you are still here. Shouldn't you be tending to your wound and kicking out your dog or something?


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo

I'd be surprised if you got booted. They boot and then they let you back. Happens a lot. You can contact me via email right through the forum. I'm trying to remember who you are. I'm not sure why I do not remember you. I'll bet if you share a few stories, I'll remember.


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## PennyWhistle

Pointgold said:


> A post like this is designed to do nothing but stir things up. You have not used people's screen names, you've used whatever version of them you've chosen as familiar/cute/annoying, whatever.
> This is ridiculous.


Oh, but its okay for you to use variations of my name?

And yes, I did use shortened varieties of names in the early pages of the thread...I don't know anyone's name, and I was using what I could remember. Foster, Point, etc. I had no idea it was so offensive.


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## Pointgold

PennyWhistle said:


> Oh, but its okay for you to use variations of my name?
> 
> And yes, I did use shortened varieties of names in the early pages of the thread...I don't know anyone's name, and I was using what I could remember. Foster, Point, etc. I had no idea it was so offensive.


 
Right.....


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## PennyWhistle

Kimm said:


> I'd be surprised if you got booted. They boot and then they let you back. Happens a lot. You can contact me via email right through the forum. I'm trying to remember who you are. I'm not sure why I do not remember you. I'll bet if you share a few stories, I'll remember.


Kimm, I came to the forum when Murphy was 3 months old and had developed a nasty digestive issue. We had gone through dozens of foods, had a bout of vomiting, the vet was ready to send us to a gastro enterolologist (and I spelled that wrong) but I am too tired to look it up. Anyway, I found Eagle Pack and started Murphy on it, and he's never looked back. I wasn't a prolific poster as I was still running my own forum (Rogues Tavern) but I talked with Hooch a lot in Yahoo, and he was always a wealth of information.


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## PennyWhistle

Pointgold said:


> Right.....


So I am a liar? I called you Point to deliberately disrespect you and the entire forum by shortening your names? 

Give me a bloody break.


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## Pointgold

PennyWhistle said:


> So I am a liar? I called you Point to deliberately disrespect you and the entire forum by shortening your names?
> 
> Give me a bloody break.


Hahaha. Yeah. I called you a liar. Not. But it's pretty funny when you say you can't remember peoples names - in the early stages of the thread you DID use member's sceen names. Whatever. Hope you're enjoying yourself, whatever your motives are.


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## PennyWhistle

How about if I refer to you as Lord and Master of All Goldens and I refer to FosterMom as Goddess of All That Is? Would that be showing the proper respect? Now, keep in mind, I am kowtowing as I do it, and maybe finishing up with a genuflection.

Sorry, but I can't help it that you take yourselves so freaking seriously that calling you Point is getting your bloomers in a bunch. I think I will just call you Poin...or maybe just P.

Edit Reason: now, I saw a typo, and I edited to correct, lest Ranger think I am trying to make P look silly.


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## fostermom

LOL. You are a hoot Peewhist! Keep on, it's really entertaining.


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## Pointgold

PennyWhistle said:


> How about if I refer to you as Lord and Master of All Goldens and I refer to FosterMom as Goddess of All That Is? Would that be showing the proper respect? Now, keep in mind, I am kowtowing as I do it, and maybe finishing up with a genuflection.
> 
> Sorry, but I can't help it that you take yourselves so freaking seriously that calling you Point is getting your bloomers in a bunch. I think I will just call you Poin...or maybe just P.
> 
> Edit Reason: now, I saw a typo, and I edited to correct, lest Ranger think I am trying to make P look silly.


 
That'd work. Thanks.


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## PennyWhistle

Okay, now Murphy and I are going to go watch The Tudors...I won't be able to do any indept posting, so dont' think you've run me off if I don't respond swiftly.


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## PennyWhistle

fostermom said:


> LOL. You are a hoot Peewhist! Keep on, it's really entertaining.


I told you I was a peck of fun, Fost. I'm glad I managed to win you over...now, I just have to work my magic on Poin.


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## Mssjnnfer

PennyWhistle said:


> Okay, now Murphy and I are going to go watch The Tudors...I won't be able to do any indept posting, so dont' think you've run me off if I don't respond swiftly.


Why would we think we'd run you off?

Perhaps because you've states numerous times you didn't think you were staying?

Oh... shoot... must be that dang sarcasm again! :doh:


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## fostermom

PennyWhistle said:


> I told you I was a peck of fun, Fost. I'm glad I managed to win you over...now, I just have to work my magic on Poin.


You really are making me crack up now! Just call me Fos and call PG Poi. Or just F and P would work.


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## PennyWhistle

F and P it is...unless there are other Fs and Ps here, and then there's going to be pandemonium in the ranks, and we can't have that.

Now, I must respectfully request to call Jan, J. And Jan, you know you want me to stay...thats why you engaged me in battle. You like me, admit it.

PeeWhist...winning over a forum one member at a time;


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo

I don't know why, but this thread has made me go silly. I'm sorry folks.

When I think about it, we used to shorten everyone's usernames, didn't we...


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## momtoMax

Now watch this be closed just as I'm trying to post here. This was very interesting reading. Gotta say that having people like this logging on and posting does really liven up a place. 

Here I am, completely fair and impartial and here's my verdict: Penny, you are the weakest link!! You totally were ignorant to Fostermom, no doubt and there was nothing funny or witty about how you looked down your figurative nose at her. And then to go all loco on Ranger - who if you'd taken the time to get to know her, is a great knowledgable and caring person - that was like you pooing on your couch in the home you thought you found. Loving that Jen is getting in there too - another person that you really have to work hard at not to like. And PG, two thumbs up!!! Not something you'd expect from me, but this was a good call on your part. I know you're not really defending anyone but your own beliefs, that's not a bad thing. 

Not feeling sorry for you. Not at all. From what I read everyone was being nice to you and you crossed that line - followed by saying opposite things and attacking well respected and supernice people - pretty dumb. I will not miss you should you decide to go.

If you really want to make nice, I'd stop being such a butthead and be nice to the people you've worked hard to be ignorant to. If you are mean to them, I know for sure I so won't like you.


----------



## momtoMax

PennyWhistle said:


> F and P it is...unless there are other Fs and Ps here, and then there's going to be pandemonium in the ranks, and we can't have that.
> 
> Now, I must respectfully request to call Jan, J. And Jan, you know you want me to stay...thats why you engaged me in battle. You like me, admit it.
> 
> PeeWhist...winning over a forum one member at a time;


 
It's making me wish that PG had gone for a login name like UberGolden or UncleCracker.


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## Pointgold

For my part, I'm certainly not trying to run anyone off, especially not someone who has promised to leave. I'd rather believe that they'd keep their promise.


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## PennyWhistle

Pointgold said:


> For my part, I'm certainly not trying to run anyone off, especially not someone who has promised to leave. I'd rather believe that they'd keep their promise.


If you beg me to stay, I'll go.

And MomtoMax, I have seen toadys before in my time, but you take the cake.


----------



## Pointgold

Yawn....:sleeping:


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## Pointgold

I'm finding it difficult to believe that there isn't a full moon...


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## PennyWhistle

I'm off to start another thread...I think I shall call it Penny's Lounge, and it will be where everyone comes to have witty banter and repartee...it will be the toast of the forum, and everyone will want to post there.


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## momtoMax

PennyWhistle said:


> If you beg me to stay, I'll go.
> 
> And MomtoMax, I have seen toadys before in my time, but you take the cake.


 
Did that make sense to anyone? If it does, please enlighten me.


----------



## PennyWhistle

Pointgold said:


> I'm finding it difficult to believe that there isn't a full moon...


Its not, Pointums...but let me ask you a little question. Are you a male or a female? Its real hard to tell with all these dog avatars. I had pegged Ranger as a guy...no offense to Ranger or to guys, but her name is decidedly masculine. Now, I only ask because I intend to win you over, and my methods will vary depending on if you're of the male persuasion or of the female.


----------



## Pointgold

Didn't The Tudors start 20 some minutes ago?


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## PennyWhistle

momtoMax said:


> Did that make sense to anyone? If it does, please enlighten me.


It means that I know I am not welcome here, you all don't like me, and if you all beg me to stay, I will leave. Golly, I thought that one was self explanatory.


----------



## PennyWhistle

Pointgold said:


> Didn't The Tudors start 20 some minutes ago?


Laptops are wonderful things! I can post here, with you my charming new friends, and watch Henry get ready to marry his last wife. Modern technology is sooooo great!


----------



## GoldenJoyx'stwo

I think it's all coming back to me now!


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## PennyWhistle

Kimm said:


> I think it's all coming back to me now!


Gulp.

Dag...it wouldn't let me post a one word response. Imagine...encouraging verbosity in a discussion forum!


----------



## momtoMax

Ah, so you are one of those people who needs attention all the time to feel special and important because you have no self esteem of your own. Well, I'm done feeding the bear. Good luck with that new thread on the forum. You were ignorant to some people I happen respect and like and I stood up for them so really, we're done here. This has gotten old and stale already. 

But come on people, don't I get a laugh for that initial thing? I mean, heck, that was a jewel, people, a JEWEL. Man, I crack me up sometimes.


----------



## GoldenJoyx'stwo

PennyWhistle said:


> Gulp.
> 
> Dag...it wouldn't let me post a one word response. Imagine...encouraging verbosity in a discussion forum!


Ale????????


----------



## PennyWhistle

M2M, did your friends need you to take up for them? It seemed like they were pretty much holding their own before you took up the gauntlet.

Now, more important things are at hand. My name is clearly lacking. I need to incorporate Murphy's name in there somehow. Here are some options and then later, I will take a poll:

MurphsSlave
MurphysPeon
MurphysLackey
PooperScooper (to show I am responsible regarding doggie doolie areas)
Murphy'sMammy - Cause we have the Irish thing going on
Murphy'sMadre - because we like Tacos
Murphy's Maman - because we like French Toast


----------



## Ranger

You guys can all bow down to me - PeeWhist gave me the best title. Henceforth, I will be known as "Unmitigated ***."

Anyone else find it funny that she calls "us" childish, yet she's the one who resorts to name-calling and insults...just like a child does?

Maybe I'm crazy, but I try to back up what I say with, oh I don't know, information or experiences. If someone has a different point of view but can clearly express the whys and wherefors of said point of view (without the ridiculous name-calling) then it's almost like..a...discussion. Crazy. Of course, I also don't state one thing then two pages later say the exact opposite. Then, when it gets pointed out to me, freak out and say I was joking and then start name-calling. But that's just me. Me being an unmitigated ***.

As for being called thought a dude...it takes more than that to get me riled up. Some people's skins are thicker than others, though.


----------



## PennyWhistle

Kimm said:


> Ale????????


No, that was me swallowing my rising gorge for fear you were remembering something....errmm....distasteful.


----------



## PennyWhistle

Ranger, as an aside from all the acrimony, I honestly did not suspect you were a female. I was being a smart *** earlier, but I wouldn't have deliberately messed up your gender anymore than I would have ***** your names on purpose...except for FosterMom and I did call her FosterMommy out of snotitude.

If its any consolation, you don't argue like a chick. You got it going on.


----------



## Nicole74

Ranger said:


> Anyone else find it funny that she calls "us" childish, yet she's the one who resorts to name-calling and insults...just like a child does?


Yes, she is the one who is doing the name calling. I'm glad I don't know you in real life. You are very rude, inconsiderate and you have lied more then one occassion in the short time you've been here. 

When you are here putting others down and attacking them, you are only describing youself.


----------



## Mssjnnfer

Don't feel bad Ranger. I think she called me Jan.


----------



## PennyWhistle

Mssjnnfer said:


> Don't feel bad Ranger. I think she called me Jan.


No, I didn't call you Jan. I know your name. I was referring to someone Kimm and I both knew named Jan.

Now, I hope you little possums don't snipe around til my thread gets closed. Just look how many people have read it. I'm a breath of fresh air around here and you all are just too stubborn to admit it.


----------



## momtoMax

Okay....maybe you aren't getting the initial thing...Fostermom and Ubergolden....F and .... do you get it now? Why am I the only one laughing??

If lots of people read this thread that means lots of people will read my joke and maybe someone will actually post and laugh at my joke : 

Honestly, the other stuff is getting old and pointless but come on, not even a giggle? :no: I don't get it.


----------



## Mssjnnfer

PennyWhistle said:


> No, I didn't call you Jan. I know your name. I was referring to someone Kimm and I both knew named Jan.





PennyWhistle said:


> Now, I must respectfully request to call Jan, J. And Jan, you know you want me to stay...thats why you engaged me in battle. You like me, admit it.


:uhoh:

Am I the only person that doesn't see Jan's battle posts?


----------



## PennyWhistle

I'll be darned if you ain't right. I made a mistake. I made a typographical error! I am not infallible! I was wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwrong!

Sorry Jen, can I call you Jen, or should I be more respectful and call you Miss Jennifer?


----------



## Jazz & Jules

We have gone off topic here.

No more points need to be made and the name calling will stop.

Doesn't matter who started it, it will stop here.


----------



## Jazz & Jules

OK folks,

I read through the most of this and it just seems we got off topic and took things to a personal level. Now in the spirit of the forum guidelines, let's just all take a step back, take a breath and relax.

If you took something personal or were offended, lets handle it in PM or email. If you would like a Mod to help, please reach out and ask.

I'm not going to call anyone out or names names where I felt things began to get complicated. And as a new moderator myself, I am going to reach out to my senior counterparts for advice.

Meanwhile, let's just get back on topic and not look for things to attack.

I will also be going back through some of the posts in this thread and doing some edits to some language.

If it's your post I edit, please don't take it personal, I just want to clean it up some.

Thanks so much for understanding and let's enjoy the rest of our day!


----------

