# Orijen is changing their formula...



## stealle (Nov 12, 2012)

I just got word that Orijen is changing their dry formula. The new line up will be called Orijen Whole Prey (same as the new freeze dried formula). It sounds like all good changes. I'm just wondering if anyone else has any info??? Like when will it hit the shelves. Here is most of the info I got from Orijen...

_As an example of the amount of fresh meat and the variety in our diets, take a look at the first 15 ingredients of our new ORIJEN Adult diet. Boneless Chicken, Chicken Meal, Chicken Liver, Whole Herring, Boneless Turkey, Turkey Meal, Turkey Liver, Whole Eggs, Boneless Walleye, Whole Salmon, Chicken Heart, Chicken Cartilage, Herring Meal, Salmon Meal, and Chicken Liver Oil.

We’ve also made changes that improve the glycemic response of our diets, and contribute to a better stool quality.

To improve the Glycemic Response of our diets, we removed high glycemic carbohydrates such as potato. The potato in the diet was replaced with lentils and chickpeas, both low glycemic alternatives. Our diets are now potato free, something our Consumers have requested over the years._

They forgot one thing...

_Guaranteed that "waschampionfan" will still bash it no matter what!_ :uhoh:

The changes sound great to me!

This was news for me. Has this info been out for awhile? I'd love to know when I can try it out. I just sent them a message asking when it will be available.


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

I had not seen this information yet. I agree that potato has no real value to a kibble other than being a non-grain carb to help bind the kibble in processing; so deleting that is no big deal. 

But my question is: adding lentils and chickpeas does bring down the glycemic response, but they are also quite high in protein. As a pescatarian, lentils and chickpeas are two "go-to" foods for providing me protein. Does Orijen say what percentage of protein in the new formulas will come from meat sources? 

As far as calling the re-formulated kibble "Orijen Whole Prey", that is quite disingenuous considering that their kibble is a highly-processed product just like any other kibble. But that makes them no different than any other brand trying to find a marketing angle. Just as Fromm has a dog dressed in an apron and chef's hat on their website. 

I'm really not trying to put Orijen down. I think overall they offer formulas that are much better than a lot of what is on the market. But I'm always skeptical and curious when any company makes changes.


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

I've been very interested in back to basics dog food, I've heard Afew people talk about it, and in addition it has none of these carbohydrate "fillers". I've also heard the quality of the meat and veggies is very high, but does anyone have any Experiance with the dog food?


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## stealle (Nov 12, 2012)

MyBentley said:


> Does Orijen say what percentage of protein in the new formulas will come from meat sources?


Well, that's a good question. They actually did give me some info on that, but I intentionally left it out because it was not clear to me. So, here goes anyway... They said they are increasing the fresh meat content. The meat content will be 50% "fresh meat". What I don't understand is that the current formula boasts 80% meat (without the word "fresh"). So I don't understand how the new formula has increased the fresh meat content. More play on words.


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## artbuc (Apr 12, 2009)

I wonder if these changes were required to reduce odor? Odor control seems like it has been the major manufacturing driver for several years.

EDIT: Maybe not. Looks like Champion is regaining cred with the locals.

http://morinvillenews.com/2013/01/3...n-petfoods-finalist-for-major-business-award/


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## stealle (Nov 12, 2012)

I'll just go ahead and post the remainder of the info that I have...

_
Our new ORIJEN Whole Prey diets are a deeper expression of our Biologically Appropriate philosophy. Simply stated, by providing Biologically Appropriate diets we mirror the freshness and variety of meats that dogs and cats would naturally hunt in the wild, and for which they are evolved to eat.

We are making key changes to our diets.

More Fresh- Fresh meat now makes up to 50% of the total diet. This is important because the fresh meats that are used in our diets are cooked only once, and at low temperatures to maintain the integrity of the nutrients.

More Variety- The top 10-15 ingredients in our ORIJEN diets are from meat! To provide additional variety, we are excited to introduce new ingredients such as lamb fat, tripe, lamb liver, beef liver, whole fish, etc._


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

stealle said:


> Well, that's a good question. They actually did give me some info on that, but I intentionally left it out because it was not clear to me. So, here goes anyway... They said they are increasing the fresh meat content. The meat content will be 50% "fresh meat". What I don't understand is that the current formula boasts 80% meat (without the word "fresh"). So I don't understand how the new formula has increased the fresh meat content. More play on words.


I think they are counting on the public being confused by their terminology. 

It takes a lot more "fresh" meat (a slurry) by weight to provide the same amount of protein than it does a specific "meal" such as "chicken meal". So, it seems that if you increase the amount of "fresh" and decrease the amount of "meal", then it's likely that plant proteins such as lentils are making up the difference if the total protein percentage numbers are listed the same as the old formula. In my simplistic way of viewing it: if you have a bucket full of chicken meal which is very light but has a lot of protein; and then start taking out some of the meal and replacing with a fresh meat slurry; you'll end up with the full bucket containing less protein.

While it's true that fresh meat is less processed than "meal", the trade-off is less meat protein compared to plant protein if that's important to the consumer.


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

The other 30% are meat meals, watch are cooked to the point where most of the fat and water is cooked out of it. Or it could also be meat by product meals which are particularly bad


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## stealle (Nov 12, 2012)

I understand what you are saying. The new formula will probably have a higher percentage of protein from plant-based ingredients. Although,they did not say they were going to omit the use of meal. The ingredient list on my post above shows the use of quite a lot of meal-based ingredients in the new adult formula. So if they are using 50% fresh meat and still using meal, the final product should still include a very high percentage of protein from meat.


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## stealle (Nov 12, 2012)

Oh... one more thing. They told me their website will be updated in the next couple weeks to reflect the new formula. So I would imaging the product should be on the shelves fairly soon.


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

It's a guessing game for the consumer. A formula like the new Orijen with a "meal" as the 2nd, 6th and 13th ingredients may not have any more protein coming from meal than a formula with the first 3 ingredients of "chicken meal, rice, chicken fat". It's not how many different ingredients are listed but rather what their weight is. One meal listed first in an ingredient list could represent more meat protein than a formula with 3 different meals listed farther down a list.


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

MyBentley said:


> It's a guessing game for the consumer. A formula like the new Orijen with a "meal" as the 2nd, 6th and 13th ingredients may not have any more protein coming from meal than a formula with the first 3 ingredients of "chicken meal, rice, chicken fat". It's not how many different ingredients are listed but rather what their weight is. One meal listed first in an ingredient list could represent more meat protein than a formula with 3 different meals listed farther down a list.


Very true


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky (Feb 22, 2011)

Interesting. I currently feed (on rotation) Orijen's Regional Red and 6 Fish. 

The Regional Red with current potato ingredient is: 
75% Premium Animal Ingredients (whatever that means)
25% Fruits, Veggies, Botanicals
38% Protein (all protein sources) It does say how much protein comes from animal sources.
1.6% Cal
1.4 Phos

6 Fish with potato ingredients (sweet potato included ~ which is actually lower glycemic, so I wonder if they are ridding this variety of it along with the russets):

80% Premium Fish Ingredients
20% Fruits, Veggies, Botanicals
38% Protein 
1.4% Cal
1.2% Phos

Hmmmm........wonder what the new stuff will be like, they are changing all their varieties or just their "Adult". 

I really like Orijen. It did take some gastric adjustments, but it didn't take long once we were 100%. It was actually worse when we had a mix of the other brand we were using. The gastric issues didn't stop until we were 100% on Orijen. Anyway. I recently tried Fromm Beef Frittata Veg for fun. My sister loves it for her whippets. My girl did fine, but her poops were so much bigger and a funky golden color. Orijen poops (lol!) are dark, firm, and really small. 

Hope the changes are for the better!!


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

Tuco said:


> meat by product meals which are particularly bad
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Not true if from quality sources. By products are included in these Orijen formulas as such products provide essential nutrients without some of the downfalls that can come with muscle meat products. Speaking of which, I'd be curious to compare the nutritional analysis of old v. new. And I'm betting cost rises or bag size reduces.


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## LisaMarie (Feb 2, 2013)

*Transitioning Puppy*



KatieBlue'sMidnightSky said:


> Interesting. I currently feed (on rotation) Orijen's Regional Red and 6 Fish.
> 
> The Regional Red with current potato ingredient is:
> 75% Premium Animal Ingredients (whatever that means)
> ...


Thanks for the info! I've just finished transitioning to Orijen puppy...and still having some trouble with "gastric adjustments". How long before all was "firm" for you?:uhoh:


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## stealle (Nov 12, 2012)

Looks like they are changing all the formulas. Looks great to me. 

Here is the .pdf with all the info (except pricing):
http://orijen.ca/wholeprey/ORIDRYWEBBRO2012.pdf


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

These new Orijen foods are nothing but an attempt to cut costs. The addition of chickpeas and lentils add a ton of protein, and if Acana is any guide, the fiber in the food wil nearly double. The amount of meat-based protein will be substantially lower in the new foods.

Also, the company makes claims about "glycemic response". This is total rubbish. There are no indexes for glycemic response and foods in dogs. There is no standard for dogs. Technically, claiming a medical benefit like this is illegal. This is just marketing to make you believe that a low "glycemic response" is healthy in some way. All these companies do is use the questionable glycemic index for people and assume it the same for dogs.

Keep in mind, no matter what the carbohydrate, the same amount of insulin is used by the body to break it down. The difference is how long it takes.

Also keep in mind, the amount of protein and fat and type of fiber have a greater impact on blood insulin levels than the type of carbohydrate. You cannot simply single out one ingredient like some food companies routinely do and say it changes insulin levels.

Claiming there is a benefit for a healthy dog is a really sleazy way to rationalize saving money by adding chickpeas and lentils.


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## stealle (Nov 12, 2012)

I got a response back from Champion today. All of the new formulas are currently being shipped out. Many stores have them in stock. I order from chewy.com Hopefully they will have new stock for my next order!

So far the transition from FROMM to the old Orijen 6-fish formula is working out great for my dogs (no poop problems). I can't wait to try the new formula. I plan to rotate between 6-fish and regional red.


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## Maddie'sMom2011 (Apr 26, 2011)

Orijen has worked for us.


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## artbuc (Apr 12, 2009)

WasChampionFan said:


> These new Orijen foods are nothing but an attempt to cut costs. The addition of chickpeas and lentils add a ton of protein, and if Acana is any guide, the fiber in the food wil nearly double. The amount of meat-based protein will be substantially lower in the new foods.
> 
> Also, the company makes claims about "glycemic response". This is total rubbish. There are no indexes for glycemic response and foods in dogs. There is no standard for dogs. Technically, claiming a medical benefit like this is illegal. This is just marketing to make you believe that a low "glycemic response" is healthy in some way. All these companies do is use the questionable glycemic index for people and assume it the same for dogs.
> 
> ...


This is my take exactly. I have a great deal of personal experience with the GI index, insulin and blood sugar. Champion's claims are misleading at best. The GI index does not work for all diabetic or insulin resistant humans. It is a starting point for experimentation; but, for example, my blood sugar spikes the same on all carbs regardless of GI. There isn't any scientific evidence for saying the human GI applies to dogs. It is simply an ubsubstantited assumption. Here is a good read:

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/128/12/2654S.full

It is clear that the GI of an individual ingredient in kibble is meaningless. Replacing meat protein with plant protein increases total starch load and makes the kibble more insulinogenic. This is a step in the wrong direction if you are concerned about your dog's blood sugar. The new Orijen formula may still be excellent compared to competition and it may be the best food for your dog. But it is wrong to claim the new formula is less insulinogenic because it uses carbs which have higher GI than the old formula.

I do give them A+ for their successful marketing effort to present an ingredients cost reduction program as a formula upgrade, complete with all new packaging design. I did notice they deleted their claim about 100% locally sourced ingredients. They now say (roughly paraphrased) they prefer locally sourced ingredients and make sure they always know the source and quality of all of their ingredients.

This award should be a big sales boost:

http://www.gripetfoods.com/PetFoodoftheYear.htm


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## stealle (Nov 12, 2012)

- waschampionfan - Since you are a self-proclaimed, former "Champion fan", I can't help but wonder, what WAS so great about the Champion dog food products and what changes did they make to the actual product.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

I was never a fan of any of the products or the company itself. It is not a product I would use or recommend.

The more you learn, the less impressed you are, thus, "Was Champion Fan"


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky (Feb 22, 2011)

LisaMarie said:


> Thanks for the info! I've just finished transitioning to Orijen puppy...and still having some trouble with "gastric adjustments". How long before all was "firm" for you?:uhoh:



So sorry for not seeing this post earlier. I'm trying to recall, for certain, but it's been so long ago. Bella is now almost 2 years old...on Valentine's Day to be exactly *: *I'm thinking it wasn't more than a day or two after we went full on Orijen. The worst period was actually when she was transitioning. I almost gave up on Orijen, but the guy at the store said to go cold turkey, so we stopped the transition method and amazingly her poops we perfect after that. I was so nervous to do that, but he seemed so adamant.


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky (Feb 22, 2011)

From what I understand, the chickpeas and lentils are replacing the russet potatoes. They are NOT adding chickpeas and lentils in lieu of any meat. I don't mind that exchange at all.


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## artbuc (Apr 12, 2009)

KatieBlue'sMidnightSky said:


> From what I understand, the chickpeas and lentils are replacing the russet potatoes. They are NOT adding chickpeas and lentils in lieu of any meat. I don't mind that exchange at all.


Chickpeas and lentils are 9% protein whereas russet potatoes are 2.6% protein. Since they are holding total protein constant, I have to assume they reduced the amount of protein coming from meat. This does not bother me because amino acids are amino acids. As long as the amino profile is balanced, the dog will not know if the amino acid came from meat or starch. They have made a lower cost, higher carb food which is likely more insulinogenic; yet, they falsely advertise it as a lower insulinogenic food because the chickpeas and lentils have a lower GI than potatoes. If they do a feeding trial comparing old and new recipes which show the new food is less insulinogenic, I will retract my criticism. Also, there is not necessarily a direct relationship between insulin response and serum glucose levels. Champion's claims for their new recipe are at least misleading and perhaps downright fraudulent.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

artbuc said:


> Chickpeas and lentils are 9% protein whereas russet potatoes are 2.6% protein. Since they are holding total protein constant, I have to assume they reduced the amount of protein coming from meat. This does not bother me because amino acids are amino acids. As long as the amino profile is balanced, the dog will not know if the amino acid came from meat or starch. They have made a lower cost, higher carb food which is likely more insulinogenic; yet, they falsely advertise it as a lower insulinogenic food because the chickpeas and lentils have a lower GI than potatoes. If they do a feeding trial comparing old and new recipes which show the new food is less insulinogenic, I will retract my criticism. Also, there is not necessarily a direct relationship between insulin response and serum glucose levels. Champion's claims for their new recipe are at least misleading and perhaps downright fraudulent.


Chickpeas and lentils are about 20 - 25% protein in dry form. They make a very big difference in the protein count compared to potatoes, rice or corn.


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

artbuc said:


> Chickpeas and lentils are 9% protein whereas russet potatoes are 2.6% protein. Since they are holding total protein constant, I have to assume they reduced the amount of protein coming from meat. This does not bother me because amino acids are amino acids. As long as the amino profile is balanced, the dog will not know if the amino acid came from meat or starch. They have made a lower cost, higher carb food which is likely more insulinogenic; yet, they falsely advertise it as a lower insulinogenic food because the chickpeas and lentils have a lower GI than potatoes. If they do a feeding trial comparing old and new recipes which show the new food is less insulinogenic, I will retract my criticism. Also, there is not necessarily a direct relationship between insulin response and serum glucose levels. Champion's claims for their new recipe are at least misleading and perhaps downright fraudulent.


That's not true first of all, it's in their dry form that protein percentage is more like 25%. Also there is a large difference between animal and plant proteins, first of all they have a much higher biological value, which is basically how they can synthesize those proteins. In addition the animal proteins have more amino acids and different amino acids. Animal proteins are much more readily available for use than plant proteins, and the increasing percentage of plant protein should be a concern


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

The GA of these foods has not changed, but lentils and chickpeas have been added and they contain 5 times the protein per gram as potato.

Obviously, the amount of protein from meat will fall. This is a way to save money and that is all. They will market this on the basis of the glycemic index which is false and misleading. It is all a scare tactic.

By the way lentils and chickpeas are 30% protein.


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky (Feb 22, 2011)

Chickpeas and Lentils: protein = 9% - 30% depending who is right. (I personally don't have a clue) 
Russets have: 2.6% according to one post. (personally, I don't have a clue about this either) 

I have not seen the information from Champion yet to know that the overall protein levels are staying the same, or not, but I am not terribly worried about the difference between 9% & 2.6% (assuming that Champion is indeed reducing the meat sources protein with Chickpea/Lentil protein), but if Chickpeas/Lentils are more towards the 30% AND Champion is replacing the difference between 30% & 2.5% with non-meat proteins, then that is a worrisome difference. (hope y'all could follow me on that ~ I'm not a canine nutritionist ~ just trying to do my best for my girl)  

I also feed Nature's Variety Raw Medallions ~ maybe she is getting enough meat protein either way. ?? This food thing is tough!


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## artbuc (Apr 12, 2009)

KatieBlue'sMidnightSky said:


> Chickpeas and Lentils: protein = 9% - 30% depending who is right. (I personally don't have a clue)
> Russets have: 2.6% according to one post. (personally, I don't have a clue about this either)
> 
> I have not seen the information from Champion yet to know that the overall protein levels are staying the same, or not, but I am not terribly worried about the difference between 9% & 2.6% (assuming that Champion is indeed reducing the meat sources protein with Chickpea/Lentil protein), but if Chickpeas/Lentils are more towards the 30% AND Champion is replacing the difference between 30% & 2.5% with non-meat proteins, then that is a worrisome difference. (hope y'all could follow me on that ~ I'm not a canine nutritionist ~ just trying to do my best for my girl)
> ...


The protein numbers quoted vary depending on the form - cooked/wet or raw/dry. Putting that aside, the key point is that Champion is reducing their costs by replacing meat protein with plant protein. There is some disagreement, apparently, about whether this makes the new recipe better, worse or the same. My criticism is centered on how Champion is marketing this formula change.


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

Since its a dry dog food you can assume its gonna be dry, raw and dry is 29% cooked dry is 25%


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## stealle (Nov 12, 2012)

Tuco said:


> Since its a dry dog food you can assume its gonna be dry, raw and dry is 29% cooked dry is 25%
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I don't follow that, but...

Let's take the old Orijen 6-fish formula.

Before it is cooked, you have a wet mixture that is 80% meat based product and 20% other. 46% of that 80% is "fresh meat" which is going to be 75-80% water. 34% of that 80% is going to be meal, which has very little water. 

Here are the ingredients of the OLD Orijen 6-Fish showing the breakdown of that 80%. As you can see, it is 34% meal and 46% meat and oil (both together total 80%):

Fresh boneless salmon (23%)
salmon meal (17%)
herring meal (17%)
fresh boneless herring (5%)
fresh boneless walleye (5%)
russet potato
sweet potato
peas
salmon oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols)(4%)
fresh boneless lake whitefish (3%)
sun-cured alfalfa
fresh boneless flounder (3%)
fresh boneless northern pike (3%)
pea fiber
organic kelp
pumpkin
carrots
spinach
turnip greens
apples
cranberries
blueberries
licorice root
angelica root
fenugreek
marigold flowers
sweet fennel
peppermint leaf
chamomile
dandelion
summer savory
rosemary
vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium yeast, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium.


I wish I knew the percentages of the other non-meat products, but the old formula obviously contains a lot of meat product. Also, keep in mind some of the fruits and vegetable ingredients also contain moisture that will be removed. 

After it is cooked/processed and most of the moisture from the meat is removed, you end up with a dry product that has 38% protein. Keep in mind that 34% of the recipe is from meal. The meat meal can have up to 3 times more protein than fresh meat. One would still have to guess about how much of the 38% crude protein is from meat, but I would think it is fairly high. I don't know. I'd guess around 70%.

I was told the new formula has 50% fresh meat. That's only 4% more than the old formula. So there will still be, 30% meal. 


It depends on what source you look at for protein content of chicpeas and lentils, but I'm finding 18% and 29% respectively. 

Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Chickpeas (garbanzo beans, bengal gram), mature seeds, raw
Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Lentils, raw


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

artbuc said:


> The protein numbers quoted vary depending on the form - cooked/wet or raw/dry. Putting that aside, the key point is that Champion is reducing their costs by replacing meat protein with plant protein. There is some disagreement, apparently, about whether this makes the new recipe better, worse or the same. My criticism is centered on how Champion is marketing this formula change.


Totally agree. The bottom line is the company's ability to produce a cheaper product by decreasing the meat protein with increasing plant protein; but at the same time, marketing it as an improvement and charging just as much if not more. 

I think their formulas in general are still better than many out there because they don't rely totally on canola oil and are not using pea protein. I'm feeding Acana Pacifica and am pretty pleased with it for both my dogs; but the cost to value ratio is certainly not improving. My lab needs a chicken-free kibble and there are just not that many to choose from that don't contain pea protein or solely use canola oil.


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky (Feb 22, 2011)

I will most likely continue to feed Orijen (all with the other things I feed) ~ My girl maintains a very nice weight, has tons of muscle, excellent energy when she needs it, has a nice shiny coat, clear eyes, beautiful teeth, and hasn't had much in the way of illness. So, I guess it's working for her. 

I am always keeping my eyes open for something that we may try ~ I think mixing it up a bit is good too. Just haven't found anything compelling enough to try...yet. Always keeping an open eye and open mind. 

As far as the marketing, well ~ it's not like they are marketing a horrible product and making it out as being really good ~ so I'm fine with it. It's not out of the range of being acceptable for me. It's still, even with the changes, a very good product option. We all have our own individual tolerances, and I respect that.


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## artbuc (Apr 12, 2009)

KatieBlue'sMidnightSky said:


> I will most likely continue to feed Orijen (all with the other things I feed) ~ My girl maintains a very nice weight, has tons of muscle, excellent energy when she needs it, has a nice shiny coat, clear eyes, beautiful teeth, and hasn't had much in the way of illness. So, I guess it's working for her.
> 
> I am always keeping my eyes open for something that we may try ~ I think mixing it up a bit is good too. Just haven't found anything compelling enough to try...yet. Always keeping an open eye and open mind.
> 
> As far as the marketing, well ~ it's not like they are marketing a horrible product and making it out as being really good ~ so I'm fine with it. It's not out of the range of being acceptable for me. It's still, even with the changes, a very good product option. We all have our own individual tolerances, and I respect that.


I fed 6Fish for almost 2 years and Rocky did great on it. Also fed some Acana Pacifica with good results. However, for a fraction of the price and MUCH easier availability, I get Dr Tim's Pursuit which Rocky loves and thrives on. Check-out Petflow and try Dr Tim's. You will wonder why you spent so much $$ on Orijen for so long.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

We're also liking the results on Dr. Tim's Kinesis for our 3. However, all his formulas do have chicken.


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky (Feb 22, 2011)

artbuc said:


> I fed 6Fish for almost 2 years and Rocky did great on it. Also fed some Acana Pacifica with good results. However, for a fraction of the price and MUCH easier availability, I get Dr Tim's Pursuit which Rocky loves and thrives on. Check-out Petflow and try Dr Tim's. You will wonder why you spent so much $$ on Orijen for so long.



Cool ~ I'll look into Dr. Tim's. Maybe get a small bag and try it out. I don't have any Orijen availability issues, and I am not worried about price, but it is good to try new things. Maybe I'm weird, but I think a little variety in a dog's diet is good. 

On another note ~ I don't want to hi-jack this thread, so maybe I should start another, but it's on the topic of "hot" foods. I have a lovely neighbor who owns a high-end dog store, and we were lightly discussing foods. She mentioned something about some of the foods I was feeding my dogs as being too "hot" for them during the summer. I didn't dig further into that conversation because I was in a hurry to get somewhere, but I am super curious what she meant by that. (she was also talking about how careful she is about lamb and where it comes from...another topic, ha!) 

Input from everyone on this ^^ Thanks!


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky (Feb 22, 2011)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> We're also liking the results on Dr. Tim's Kinesis for our 3. However, all his formulas do have chicken.



Hmmmm....chicken. I've been giving Bella just a tiny bit of chicken here and there hoping that over time, her reaction to it will be nil. I've heard people, and hopefully animals too, can overcome some allergic reactions to foods.

I might try it still ~ just to see.


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

I like Acanna and Orijen because they have their own processing plant and therefore better quality control but some of the changes they have made recently have disatisfied me with them


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## stealle (Nov 12, 2012)

KatieBlue'sMidnightSky said:


> Hmmmm....chicken. I've been giving Bella just a tiny bit of chicken here and there hoping that over time, her reaction to it will be nil. I've heard people, and hopefully animals too, can overcome some allergic reactions to foods.
> 
> I might try it still ~ just to see.


Have you tried Orijen Regional Red? It does not have any chicken (unless you count whole egg, which I assume are chicken eggs). I am hoping to rotate between 6 fish and regional red. I'm thinking 2 bags of 6 fish for every 1 bag of regional red. I like 6 fish better because of the higher glucosamine/chondroitin. Also, higher in fatty acids. But, I would like to feed some variety so... regional red.


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