# The Balancing Act?



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I use the crate. Flip also had to wear a bark collar because he would pitch an absolute fit when I would work Conner.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Another thing I've done is put the dog in the crate and have someone with a bag of treats keep them occupied.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Loisiana said:


> Another thing I've done is put the dog in the crate and have someone with a bag of treats keep them occupied.


That's something I'm probably going to do in the short term... my one instructor kinda goes nuts about dogs barking during class. 

Another question I have... 

I'd prefer to buy an xlarge soft crate because it will be easier for me to carry and set up. 

But am I right in assuming that a wire crate would be a bit more comfortable for a dog? Those soft crates must get warm inside...?


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

A lot of people have very good luck covering the crate with a sheet. I crate my crew while working the other ones, but in Towhee's case I will frequently put her in the truck - she is a barker when I work another dog. Sometimes other folks will treat them or if I am at a private with one of my instructors Towhee will actually get some delicious treat to keep her occupied ; but even then she might end up in the truck LOL She is quiet at shows though, go figure.

For working multiple dogs - in obedience classes I set a time limit per dog and switch off. In round abouts and park adventures I basically do the same thing but I decide ahead of time what exercises I want to work on and will frequently work the exercises at their individual levels. For example, if I set up gating that can be used for about turns into the gating for all the dogs, go outs at individual levels and ring entrances/setups. Then another time with gating I might do heeling along the gating, broad jumps by the gating and halts into the gating. I have learned to practice Figure 8's in front of the high jump so this might be another set of exercises I set out to practice (ie; Figure 8, ROF, ROH) 

i rarely work more than 3-4 things in any training session; agility either. With multiple dogs you do need to go into a session with a plan but be flexible in case things go south.

ETA: I will also take back to back classes when possible - for example Faelan and Casey are in the advanced 7 o'clock agility class and Towhee follows at 8 - the 8 o'clock class is slightly less advanced but I find it helpful to only need to concentrate on Towhee for that hour. I also either bring my own crates or wash the crates out before I put my dogs in them (and after I am through with shared crates). I also pay for 3 dogs in these classes so they all get their share of runs.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

I rotate my two dogs so each gets a turn. It actually motivating for the dog that is in the crate "resting". Since my dogs are no longer puppies I can use a soft crate but with you having a puppy I suspect the soft crate would not last. I use a 36 inch metal crate for Baxter when I take him to class and it is fairly easy to carry and set up. You will find a balance between the two, especially since the puppy will need shorter sessions initially because of his limited attention span.
How fun for you! I hope everything comes together as you hope.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Plan on crating them in the car. Non-crate trained dogs generally take to the crate just fine in the car. Don't use a mesh crate with a dog that is not already very reliable in a metal crate, they can dig out in a second.
My guys still get jealous if I train right outside the car -- Slater wore a bark collar for a year -- but if you are going into a class and are far enough away they will be fine and can relax.
If you train at home, put the one not being trained in a back bedroom where they can't see you through a window.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Some of Susan Garrett's Crate Games are fun to play with puppies. I crate all four of mine, and sometimes with a crate fan for Copley bc he loves it. They get so "professional" when it is part of their routine at classes, shows, and seminars. A frozen kong here and there plus ignoring any early protests is all any of my 11 goldens have needed to be good in and about their crates over the years. It is hard to take one out for training, and leave the others. I think going to different classes with each is helpful. I live at a training center, so it is like Sophie's choice every day bc all want to be the "demo" dog.


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## KathyG (Nov 21, 2011)

Almost the first thing they learn is NO barking in the crate...ever!! It's annoying to listen to and not good for anybody.

So training multiple dogs has not been an issue.....-as long as the ones who aren't working are crated. If I train at home and they are loose in the house, they go absolutely nuts. I usually just stick them in the crate in the car and they happily wait for their turn.

I can't stand it at class where dogs are constantly recreationally barking and the owners do nothing about it.

Like I said, it was made clear from day one that barking while crated was a major offensive.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Covering with a sheet from the get go is what we did. We would take Quinn, then Gabby, to watch trials, matches, classes etc. If the dog was quiet, they could watch, if they started to pitch a fit, then the cover came down until they settled. Then they could look out again. Both my dogs learned, if I want to watch, shut up.

Now when we are doing agility, if we crate where they can see, I cover them. They don't make a fuss. They are "ok" when each other is running but if Art runs Gabby or I run Quinn the other dog has a major fit... if they can see it. Covers are your friend. 

Also... your trainer who doesn't like barking dogs needs to grow up. She can shut up her dogs in her fenced area too. Sorry pet peeve of mine since she has chewed us out about Quinn barking. 

I take Teddi and Gabby to obedience class together. It took me a while but I learned I need to work Teddi first. She runs out of gas fastest, and I don't want her "worrying" when I am working Gabby. Gabby fusses because it is hard for me to cover the crates where we do obedience. She isn't "bad" I just hear her talking. She can get over it. When the weather isn't blistering hot, keeping one dog in your car while you work the other is not a bad option. We love our crates in our car, and we used them a lot in the winter and spring. 

I think in your case, it will be harder because "you" are the common denominator in both dogs. If you can find someone to come with you to help teach the puppy proper behavior, start taking the puppy to class the moment you can, to watch. With Jacks, when you start training the puppy..I am on the fence, part of me says leave him home, he will be more willing to go out and work when you take him but jealousy can build drive and workability. My dogs are definitely (Quinn and Gabby) competitive of each other.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Dogs barking in their crates because of jealousy watching the other dogs IS A PROBLEM in a training or trialing situation. Sorry I can't find any way to excuse or justify it. It's annoying for everyone and wears the dog out. Why is it tolerable?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I wouldn't be letting either dog bark.... 

The only reason why I'm worrying a little about this is because I want to take both dogs to class with me, but it's easier to train manners when the dog has no opportunity to bark. 

Jacks went through that stage when he was a puppy when he would get that "look" that he was getting ready to let as big one out, and I'd immediately give him a correction (I hold their muzzles gently and say "no bark"). 

I have a feeling that the best way to handle this is to aim for open floor opportunities with both dogs, and condition both dogs to maintain calm for brief periods while their bro is on the floor.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

You know the toddlers that throw total temper tantrums - yelling and screaming until they turn red, fists pounding the floor, all that? That's what Flip was like as a puppy when I'd work Conner. Totally lost control of himself. He would literally have such a hissy fit that he would make himself pee in his crate. Six months of working on it, two very good obedience trainers trying to help me with positive methods, both finally told me it was going to probably be best to put the bark collar on him to break him of the cycle.

But most dogs aren't as bad as Flip was....

When we were at trials I would put him in the car while Conner had his run (with the air conditioning running of course) since I wasn't in a position to do anything while I was in the ring and he couldn't wear a bark collar there.

I agree with Anney, a repeatedly barking dog is annoying to everyone and disrespectful to allow it to continue in public.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

I have never had this trouble I teach my dog to be crated from the time I get them home. I guess becaue of doing rescues I always have new dogs coming into the home and my dogs have to be quite. I dont think I would have any hair left if they barked all the time cause I was working with one. 

I think if you work on crate training from the begining you wont have any trouble.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

General V said:


> I think if you work on crate training from the begining you wont have any trouble.


I don't agree -- crate training doesn't have anything to do with dogs barking out of jealousy watching another dog work. 
Slater was crate trained from day 1 but always was a barker in his crate. By 4 or 5 months old he knew he better shut up once I opened the front door, but he would bark from the time I pulled up in the driveway until I opened the door. He was crazy in the car when I worked Fisher. He would bark so much he'd wear himself out! I would close the car and crank the radio while working Fisher so I couldn't hear Slater bark. It was crazy. Going to him and correcting him only made him stop for that instant. When it was time for him to be collar conditioned at about 10 months of age I started with the bark collar. Let him collar condition himself AND learn how to shut up! Worked like a charm. He wore the bark collar EVERY time we field trained for a YEAR. Guess what? No corrections from me -- I am not the bad guy -- and now, no barking when I'm working the other dogs, and he doesn't wear the bark collar anymore. Dog collar conditioned himself. All of this has nothing to do with being crate trained.
The other issue especially in an obedience/agility setting -- if your dog is busy barking and making a fuss in his crate -- and if you try to be a good owner and correct him to get him to shut up -- repeatedly -- now how the heck are you going to go to him 10 times and get after him, enough to make him demotivated such as to be quiet, then five minutes later pull him out of the crate to work and expect him to be gung ho about working? Not fair for the dog. If I had a barking dog and didn't want to use the collar I would take him to class and work ONLY on the not barking until he learned to be quiet, then and only then would he be allowed to work. 
Just my little theories here!


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

K9-Design said:


> The other issue especially in an obedience/agility setting -- if your dog is busy barking and making a fuss in his crate -- and if you try to be a good owner and correct him to get him to shut up -- repeatedly -- now how the heck are you going to go to him 10 times and get after him, enough to make him demotivated such as to be quiet, then five minutes later pull him out of the crate to work and expect him to be gung ho about working? Not fair for the dog. If I had a barking dog and didn't want to use the collar I would take him to class and work ONLY on the not barking until he learned to be quiet, then and only then would he be allowed to work.
> Just my little theories here!


The other issue with constant correcting of the barker is that the one you are training will at times think your correction is aimed at them. And talk about demotivating! :doh:


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Speaking of all of this, Maddie tends to whine in the crate in the car, especially on long car trips...or because my Mom just so happens to be in the car riding to a show with us. I try to shut her up, but have no luck. I've squirted her with water and have told her to be quiet. Any suggestions? She does just fine in a crate at home, no qualms about it.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Is she hot or anxious (car sick)? 

Would opening the window help her? 

I wouldn't squirt her with water if there's a chance that she's anxious....


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

No she hasn't ever gotten car sick since she was a puppy. Meaning that she has thrown up, right?


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

That's funny, the ONLY time I can count on Flip to be quiet in the crate is when I'm driving. As soon as the car starts moving, he's out, and stays that way until I get out of the car.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Loisiana said:


> That's funny, the ONLY time I can count on Flip to be quiet in the crate is when I'm driving. As soon as the car starts moving, he's out, and stays that way until I get out of the car.


Mine is just the exact opposite! :doh: She will lay down and stuff, but will normally sit on one hip like a total goof ball and then worry the stuff next to her crate will fall on it! Someone is a total worry wort!:uhoh:


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Huh... that's disappointing. >.<

There is a litter that I was fairly excited about from a pretty good breeder here in MI. I am not at that point where I want to put my name on a waiting list or commit to a litter just yet (I'm waiting for a work related decision). But I am looking around...

The thing is I just heard back from the breeder on some questions I had, particularly a clearance (elbows) missing on offa.org. The breeder said that one elbow was normal and the other was grade 1. She submitted the xrays to OVC and they passed there. So in a manner of speaking, they cleared... just not with OFA. 

She said there is too much a gray area between normal and grade 1 to throw out a gorgeous dog like him over just one elbow. 

The dog is a Yogi son and the health/longevity on his side and the female's side is great - and why I was so tempted with the litter. But I don't think I can get over the elbows. Especially knowing how bad ED can be.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Not passing elbow would be a deal breaker for me


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## Kira Zoe & Marie (Feb 27, 2011)

*Crate games*

I use crate games (DVD) approach...it is awesome! Was able to get a non crate trained older dog to enjoy his crate...and the dogs quickly see the crate as a game and resting spot. I also use a command to teach one dog it is the other dog's turn to work. Later on, I use only a place board for he one waiting his turn. Thus they have a job to do while they wait.


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