# First Training Session



## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

You also need leather gloves.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

The trainer didn't mention them for the first lesson, but I'm sure I'll bring my work gloves.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

ktkins7 said:


> The trainer didn't mention them for the first lesson, but I'm sure I'll bring my work gloves.


Definately leather gloves and a whistle. Sounds like you have a knowledgeable trainer, as the skill sets you mentioned are formal Basics. Get those solidly in place and you will always be grateful. Take your time and have fun!

EvanG


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

If we both like it then it's definitely something I would like to continue. One of my few worries is that Ella can be sensitive with certain things, but it doesn't seem to be consistent. For example, her bark collar doesn't bother her, even though it does make her stop barking. But she is still scared of the invisible fence. She is slightly afraid of the vacuum cleaner, but so far loud noises like thunder and fireworks don't bother her in the least.

The way the trainer has it set up is you go to the class and he assigns homework. You train 10-20 minutes daily at home. Once you've achieved the goals of the homework assignment or are very close then you set up the next lesson. If you have any questions or issues regarding the assignment then you can call or email for assistance. So it really is flexible for the pace. Since she is still hesitant for the yard with the invisible fence I'll just have to find a local field where I can take her for training. Hopefully she'll adjust to the fence sooner rather than later. This may help too if she enjoys the training where her interest in training will overcome her hesitancy of going in the yard because of the fence.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

VERY COOL!
So Ella's reactions to the bark collar vs. invisible fence are very interesting. My take on it is one is very black-and-white and therefore understandable by the dog, so it's not scary because she controls it. The other is rather vague, changes with every step, and is confusing to her, so it is stressful. Makes you realize how you need to train with the collar! They can take the pressure as long as it is understandable and they feel like they are in control of stopping it based on their behaviors. If it's random, cloudy in application, or inconsistent, it is stressful for the dog and you start to see phobic behaviors. 

Your classes sound GREAT and I hope you have a lot of fun with it!


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

She caught on with the bark collar right away. First time we used it. No barking equals no correction. With the fence, I think even though we did the boundary training I don't think she us connecting that where the flags are is where her border is, so she is unsure of how to prevent the correction. I'm doing a combination of distracting her and getting her out there with treats.

I can't wait to start though. I'm so excited. Got to find somewhere to get a 20' line and whistle this weekend our next week, other than Petco. I had a Petco line that didn't hold up too well. Maybe Tractor Supply well have some because I know they have some dog supplies there.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

That's awesome! Be careful, it's very addicting! Can't wait to hear your report.


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## tpd5 (Nov 7, 2013)

Very exciting. I would order the whistle online (gundogsupply.com) and you will have it in plenty of time for your first session. Not sure how far you are from cabelas but they may have whistles as well. Have Fun!!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

gdgli said:


> You also need leather gloves.


yup yup yup! When we pet-sat Darcy's little uncle I used the long line on him and forgot the gloves. Wow that rope can sting your hand and fingers and that pain lingers!


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## flatcoated (Feb 3, 2013)

That sounds like a great program! I will have to start looking for a trainer within reasonable travel distance who offers a similar option. Look forward to hearing about your experience.



ktkins7 said:


> I can't wait to start though. I'm so excited. Got to find somewhere to get a 20' line and whistle this weekend our next week, other than Petco. I had a Petco line that didn't hold up too well. Maybe Tractor Supply well have some because I know they have some dog supplies there.


My experience is with tracking, not fieldwork, but I can't recommend biothane/tufflex lines highly enough. They offer great grip, are easy to clean, don't absorb water, don't tangle, and are easy on the hands (though you'll still want the gloves). Palomine Lines and Gun Dog Supply are two sources, and I think there's an additional source named in the Product Recommendations sub forum.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

*First Class Complete!*

We had our first class this morning. Overall it went well but it didn't start off so great. It was about an hour drive and Ella got car sick and threw up right as we were pulling in the driveway. So she was a little off when we started. Ella got out for a few minutes for her to do her business while I met the trainer. Then I loaded her back into the car and we went back to the field where the training is done.

Ella was a little worked up at first. We let her off leash, which she normally doesn't get to do because her recall isn't trusted yet. You could just tell she was nervous and anxious. The trainer threw a bumper for her that she completely ignored, which isn't like her. She'll fetch in the house for hours, in the water, outside she'll always chase the thrown object but doesn't always bring it back if she is distracted. But she didn't show any interest at first. I explained about her issues with the invisible fence that I'm working on, and we thought that maybe she was nervous thinking that she might get a correction somewhere. So we ended up putting her on the long line and letting it drag behind her, just letting her explore. After a bit she must have realized that she wasn't going to get any correction she seemed to settle down and the longer we were there the more she calmed down and started acting herself. We tried with the bumper again and then she went after it. It was larger and heavier than she was used to so she didn't actually pick it up but she did go after it. So I'm going to get some bumpers to work with her so that she'll get used to a bumper. The trainer suggested a smaller canvas one at first and then work the way up to the size and weight they're using.

At this point the trainer explained the whole program. As I mentioned before he goes at each dog's individual pace. He said high drive intelligent dogs may take a year, others may take quite a bit longer. It's a combination of the dog and how much is put into it. With Ella she has the intelligence and he said she definitely has drive, but it's yet to be seen how much drive she has. But the start of the program is an obedience program. It goes through basic obedience, collar conditioning, hold, force fetch, pile work, single-t, double-t, drills, and run-by. Each step has be completed and tested before moving on. While doing the obedience portion, which actually does sound like it will be a good fit for Ella even if we don't go on to do field work. The trainer also said we can come and observe their in the field group lessons as well, maybe even give her a try if possible.

Moving on, the first thing we worked on was heel. Rather than using a pinch collar with her, he said that a choke collar would work with her. We used a rope style that had a 4' line on it. We started with placing her in the correct heel position at my side. He explained the importance of having her sit in a heel with field work and how everything builds off it of it and how much she will take cues from my own position. Then we worked on walking and turning in a heel. Having her sit at a heel. Also how to have her sit to a whistle command.

From there we went from walking at a heel and having her sit, then me going around the front of her. Went to the end of the line with her still sitting, then went in a circle around her. If she got up we put her back into the sit and went again. The homework is to work on this until she can do it with a 20' line.

The other thing he did was pull out a dead duck. This was towards the beginning when she was still nervous. He tossed it on the ground and she kept sniffing it. She was definitely interested but appeared unsure. When he picked it up she kept sniffing the ground where it was. She didn't try fetching it at all. But when he was holding she kept jumping up toward it. He also gave some duck wings for her to either retrieve those, or to attach to a bumper and have her retrieve.

Ella is now sound asleep on the couch next to me. Even if she isn't cut out for the field portion, which is yet to be seen, I'm still going to keep doing the obedience portion. I could see a huge difference with just the one lesson. Now we'll have to work on our homework so we can have a next lesson to work on recall.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

Ella sleeping after getting back home


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Sounds like you had a nice productive morning! I would personally take advantage of going to the group training with her and get her accustomed to being at least in the car in that environment. As you work on the heeling and recalls and get more confident with her out of the car I would certainly give it a shot in the group as well as the one on one training. 

You want the first experiences in the field to be good ones and for Ella to get excited when she goes to training. 

I swear my girls know when Saturday and Sunday mornings are. I feel guilty if I do not take them to the training grounds on a weekend. They already wake me up early on weekends; if they could they would get me dressed and my boots laced because obviously I am taking too long to get ready.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Hope you continue to have fun. Make sure to do your homework every day so that you move along nicely. Just remember to make sure your dog is having fun too!


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

For the training, is 15-20 minutes daily sufficient or should I do it more often?

Also, the trainer said to only play fetch with her using bumpers now. He said to start off with a smaller canvas one and then work up to ones like they use, which are larger and supposed to be about the weight of a duck. I was looking at the ones at Gun Dog Supply. Would it be the "regular" size or the "jumbo" size? Do I stick with white? Anything in particular I want to stay away from?

Thanks again everyone!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

The medium weighted ones. You do NOT want to go with Jumbo. I would go with the white ones for now. 

Canvas Retriever Training Dummies / Bumpers.

ETA - gundogsupply is really fast in processing and mailing.

As far as 15 to 20 min - IMHO I think it is sufficient.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Ask your trainer. Make up a list of questions. Email to them and see what they say. Some trainers supply the items you use. You want to follow their directions as close as possible.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

To start he said just a smaller canvas one to get her used to retrieving a bumper instead of a chuckit ball. I asked he said no specific one for now. Then once she is consistent with the canvas then get her going on the particular bumpers that they use.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

GUN DOG SUPPLY reviews Hunting Dog Training Collars & Supplies for Retrievers & Bird Dogs Get small white bumpers at first. Then move up to large size.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Alaska7133 said:


> GUN DOG SUPPLY reviews Hunting Dog Training Collars & Supplies for Retrievers & Bird Dogs Get small white bumpers at first. Then move up to large size.


The problem that I see with the small puppy ones is that they roll them in the mouth as they bring back and causes chewing. A bad habit to break. Reason also why I started with the canvas ones instead of the plastic ones. Same issue. 

The large or Jumbo are too big and you can get a refusal to pick up. The medium ones are perfect size and close enough to a duck sized bird. 

Here are what the medium ones look like


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I have the jumbo ones at home and the small ones. I can get pictures with the dogs holding it to see the difference. 

I have used the small one only with Rose when she was a puppy as a toy (except she was never allowed to chew on it). The jumbo ones I hardly use. My next step was the docken which I can also put the duck scent in.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Here are some pics of the jumbo ones. I looked for the small ones and my DD said we threw them away.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

And here is Darcy with the immense bumper.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

Hi Ella's mom....sounds like you and Ella are off and going down the road of field trained dog! It is a journey with many turns and has no real end, once you start you just keep on going down that road. It is fun most of the time, with great rewards for you and Ella. Welcome aboard the journey. I have a 21 month old that has been in training since she was 6 mo. She is just now putting all the many elements together ( I also have two older Goldens, already trained). She is really fun and teaches me something every day! She loves her work!

As for bumpers I use only the standard size, especially for training. Do not use anything but white ones, as dogs do not see in color, so other colors are hard for them to see. Until or unless you choose to have her training to include finding birds she did not see fall (blind retrieves), you would never use a colored bumper.

I can tell that sometimes you want to work on things that your trainer has not yet covered with you. Don't only do what the trainer says, in that way you will not have to break any bad habits you pup may pick up. 

I would practice for 15-20 min. Twice per day, morning or evening. You will get to recognize when you pup is getting bored or tired. When you see that end the session by doing something really easy that your pup likes to do, ending on a happy note!

For carsickness I give my pup one Bonine pill 25mg. Works wonderfully, can be purchased at the local drug store, and does not make them sleepy. Give it to them with peanut butter 45 min before you travel. If you are not comfortable with this, try fresh ginger, a small amount 1/4 teaspoon given with food in the morning does the trick!.... 

Have fun...looks like your trainer is a good one, work with him and do not jump ahead....you dog will love you for it!


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

I'm not sure if he had the jumbo or one size down. I think it was similar to the size in the first pictures but I'm not sure. I won't order any jumbo sizes until I'm sure I'm getting the right one. 

I haven't been practicing as much as I'd like because I've had a cold the last couple of days and feel absolutely awful.

KCGold, normally for longer car rides I use the generic of Dramamine which helps per the vet. I didn't give her anything before going the other day though.

The only thing I'm unsure of at this time is the use of the choke collar. I've used the pinch collar a bit before but not a choke collar before Monday. I'm not sure how I feel about it because her training before this has been almost all positive reinforcement, but I also realize the positive reinforcement has not been entirely successful with Ella. The corrections have been effective and she seems to be picking it up a lot quicker than the positive reinforcement method (walking at a heel in one lesson when I couldn't even get her to go loose leash let alone heel when I'd been working on it consistently for almost a year). It hasn't seemed to so far but I don't want to damage my relationship with Ella, if that makes sense. I don't want her to be afraid of me or anything. The pinch doesn't seem as harsh, but the trainer, who seems to know what he's doing and has been doing it for quite a while, says go with the choke collar. I haven't discussed it with the trainer at this point because I don't know how I feel about it myself. He seems extremely knowledgeable and I don't know what methods are normally used in field training. Guess I'm just looking for thoughts on this.

Thanks again everyone.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Discuss training collars with the trainer. He uses the chain collar everyday and is comfortable and proficient in its use. You have no experience at all with the chain collar. You are comfortable with the prong collar and its use. I have to believe the trainers goal is for you to be administering praise or correction, in the proper amount for your dog, with the proper timing. Whether you use a chain collar or a prong collar shouldn't matter if you're using them correctly.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

Swampcollie said:


> Discuss training collars with the trainer. He uses the chain collar everyday and is comfortable and proficient in its use. You have no experience at all with the chain collar. You are comfortable with the prong collar and its use. I have to believe the trainers goal is for you to be administering praise or correction, in the proper amount for your dog, with the proper timing. Whether you use a chain collar or a prong collar shouldn't matter if you're using them correctly.


That's why I didn't dismiss it right away because I figure he's experienced with it and knows what he's talking about. I'm attempting to be open minded about it. I guess I'm more of seeking support that I'm not torturing Ella. 

He uses the type style. I attached a pic.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

see my dogs and I feel like the prong collar is worse. They have no issues with that kind of collar. I use a chain choke collar (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411vvY4GgxL._SY300_.jpg) and I like that toggle, the noise really gets their attention, its not about the pull. The pro I worked for only used chain collars and wouldn't even think of using a prong collar. I think he thought they were dangerous for the field, which I can see why.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

The majority of Field Trainers use either the pinch collar or choke collar for basic obedience training. They then transition into use of the e collar. All, if used properly by a trained handler, will not harm the dog in anyway.

As far as the relationship with your dog, as part of your training you need to learn about how dogs learn and related to their handlers. They do not think like people and the biggest mistake we people make is to place human characteristics regarding training and learning into our pets!

Without spending tons of space and time, suffice to say that dogs are 'pack' animals. A lot of their behavior is related to how packs relate. They need every pack member to have a place and level within the pack. They will constantly test the pack leader to try a move up to that level in the pack. Just like a pack leader will correct a young dog that is challenging his/her authority, we have to take the pack leader role and correct the pup when they challenge our authority. Thus enters the correction collar to help us perform and clarify that role....

Good Luck


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