# Handing Over Your Dog to a Trainer for Four Months?



## NFexec (Jul 14, 2012)

Oops - subject is wrong - I meant Four Weeks, not months!! 

We have a 15 month old and have tried a number of training routines with Greta. Been quite consistent with most, and she is doing better, but still has bad habits we just can't seem to break: jumping, biting (soft or sometimes not so soft mouthing and nipping), refusing to "COME", and so on. We are very frustrated with all of this.

A good friend recently recommended a particular private training organization that did wonders with their dog who was in much worse behavioral condition. We went there yesterday and met with a very nice, extremely knowledgable young woman who is part of the training team. She had five dogs laying on their blankets along a wall in a large training room (they were all just being very still and patient). She went through a detailed interview with us, had us show her how we walk with Greta and do a couple of simple commands - then she showed us a different way using a strong, quick pull on the leash (attached to a choke collar) and went through the same steps we did. We could already see some difference. She then showed us her own dog doing some basic commands and it was extraordinarily impressive. This training organization has been around for years, has high marks, quality customer feedback, is professional, and also has a few sister centers around the country.

Cutting to the chase here.... the training options are to bring Greta to the site once/week for several weeks where Linda and I are taught the methods and we do practicing while being given supervision and feedback. Each session is about an hour. This way we learn the actual training routine and work with Greta every day until the end of the training.

The second option is that we hand over Greta to this trainer who takes her home and Greta lives there for four weeks while she gets intensive training and feedback every day for a month. Linda and I still do the once/week training at the center; the big difference is we are not learning the training details per se, but are being shown how to handle Greta and practice with her. 

Obviously the 2nd option is more expensive (but that's not terribly important). What IS important is that we have Greta comply with commands, stop the jumping and biting, learning to sit and stay, lay down and stay, come, walk at the side without pushing ahead, and so on. 

We intuitively feel the 2nd option would be highly successful; but we're a little uncertain about proceeding with the first one due to our concerns over being strongly consistent with her. (We realize this is OUR fault).

We are compiling a list of questions on the 2nd option, and I am asking folks here if 1. Have you ever done this sort of training method where your dog lives with the trainer for a month? If so, how did that work out? and 2. What questions would you ask before agreeing to this method?

Thank you for your feedback.

Doug & Linda


----------



## KeaColorado (Jan 2, 2013)

I personally would opt for visiting the trainer and learning how to train the dog myself. Even if you could commit to two 10 minute sessions working with her on your own twice a day, I think you'd see some major results. Is the trainer willing to come to your house and give you specific things to do to work on the jumping and biting behaviors, along with some specific goals each week?

The only way I'd be comfortable sending my dog out for training (and maybe not even then) would be if the trainer used 100% positive methods. That's not the case with this trainer, given what you've said about the leash pop. Don't get me wrong, I am not completely against using aversive methods. However, I want to be the one in control and administering them, not someone else. I guess it could also be argued that aversive methods are potentially more problematic in the hands of an amateur trainer. Ultimately, my opinion is that there's no way to control what goes on behind closed doors. There was one of those board-and-train type trainers near me who was recently arrested for kicking dogs. Probably not something he would have done in front of the owners during a demo. 

And, a word of encouragement for you: Training is a wonderful bonding experience between you and your dog. Our first dog was a rescue. When we got her, she was a bit older than Greta, but had been someone's former puppy mill dog and likely had never lived inside the house. She didn't know how to play with toys, she did the submissive urination thing with my husband. She was afraid of mops and brooms and anything with a long handle (shudder). we took her to classes and I worked with her daily. She was the star of her class, and it was so much fun to see her blossom and gain confidence. Eventually, we were invited to join a therapy dog group with our trainer and we visited a local nursing home regularly and also volunteered at the Special Olympics. If I could do it, so can you!


----------



## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

I know of a few people that have sent their dogs to a residential training center but none of them were Goldens. I think it's somewhat more common if the dog is being trained for field work.

Most good training involves training the owner/handler in how to read and interact with the dog. You wont get that when you send a dog away. I've noticed that many dogs will immediately respond to the handling of a professional but the dog doesn't then behave that way for the owner unless the owner uses the techniques the pro used.

So I would not recommend sending the dog away and would want to be sure the trainer isn't using unnecessarily harsh techniques before signing on for the first option.
Greta's a very pretty girl and her behavior sounds not really unusual for a 15 month old Golden.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

The problem with this method - and this is something I chatted about with one of my instructors and we totally agree on this point.... 

The dogs may go to a trainer and be trained. But unless the owners are trained to train their own dogs, the obedience will slip. That's why the first option is the better one, imo. Especially since we are talking about household obedience. 

The reason why my instructor and I got on that subject at all was because one of the people in my class had a Labrador retriever who had gone away for a couple months for field training. And this dog was spastic and uncontrolled in the obedience class - partly because his owners didn't know what commands he knew and/or how to reinforce them. They struggled to get him to do very simple retrieves for them, and this dog had been professionally trained to retrieve. 

The other reason I would not send my dog away to somebody else to train, is because working on a daily basis with my dogs has formed and reinforced the bond between us. To the extent that they are my dogs. If I walk away and leave them while they are eating dinner, they will leave their food to go find me. I'll tell them to go back and eat their food, and they will - but not before they've made sure I'm not training my "invisible dog" or whatever it is they think I do when they aren't around.  

The other reason is I'm always suspicious of organizations that train other people's dogs - and suspicious of what they may do to my dogs. I train with people - some of whom use methods that heck no, I would never use on my dogs. If I'm right there, I will put my foot down and say absolutely not. 

If I leave my dog in somebody else's hands, I can't stop them from grabbing my dogs ears and pinching them into obedience or hauling them up by a choke chain and choking them into submission. Or whatever else is including in a training program. 

There is no universal method of training that works on all dogs, but there are programs out there which treat the dogs that way.

And fwiw - our first experience with dog training came from a lady who had goldens who would sit on the side of the room and not move from their park it blankets at all until she told them to. She was the one who wanted everyone in the puppy class to alpha pin their puppies for 10 minutes every single day. And pin them ten minutes (in addition to the daily pinning) every time they sassed or did anything wrong. We hated that teacher and dropped out of puppy class because she was ruining our golden. The last straw was her coming up and pinning our dog in class because we were not pinning him enough. Do not judge any program on the obedience of the dogs.


----------



## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

Never Happen. What they show you is not necessarily what happens in your absence.


----------



## Wendy427 (Apr 4, 2009)

Is this trainer Amy Richardson of canineUnlimited (www.canineunlimitedohio.com)? If so, she's wonderful! Renny stayed with her for 10 days at her "doggie bootcamp". Then I had 4 follow-up sessions with her so she could teach me all the methods. Worked quite well.


----------



## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

I would say NO to the second option. Dogs can be trained by someone else, but once they come back to you if you haven't built that bond and have the knowledge you have just spent money to have a dog trained to obey someone else. I also don't trust anyone to have my dog and do training without me being present.


----------



## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

Megora said:


> The dogs may go to a trainer and be trained. But unless the owners are trained to train their own dogs, the obedience will slip. That's why the first option is the better one, imo. Especially since we are talking about household obedience.


This!

NFexec if you opt for in kennel training, it doesn't stop there. You will still need to continue the training and be consistent (which you mentioned isn't your strong point). A good trainer will always tell you that *both the dog AND the owner need to be trained.*

Both are good options if you keep up your side of the deal


----------



## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

I agree with the above posts...training is as much about training the owner as training the dog. The behaviors being described are more immuturity than anything. Consistancy and age will help.


----------



## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Pulling on a choke collar can cause tracheal damage...


----------



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Nope wouldn't do it. And the main thing for overall manners isn't the initial teaching of it, it's the lifetime consistent follow up. If the owners aren't consistent about what they expect from the dog at all times, then it doesn't matter how many months away they spend training.


----------



## NFexec (Jul 14, 2012)

First off, as the OP, I want to thank you all who responded with very insightful comments. But secondly, I was aghast that my title says four MONTHS! It would be four WEEKS! Ack!

The pulling of the leash with a choke collar is something that is used with discretion and only to start the attention getting when the dog doesn't comply with the command. It's use is reduced significantly once training has gotten underway. 

However - I do understand the issue of trust as well as the dog's owner doing the training vs someone else and then having the owner(s) pick up the method AFTER the dog is trained. Bonding and strengthening of the relationship is clearly another good reason for not sending her to any trainer for a month. I'm not quite as concerned about how Greta would be treated elsewhere, but I do have questions about a typical day, other pets in her house and how they interact or are kept separate, how she structures potty breaks, exercise, play time, etc. I'm not worried about the home being a loving and clean environment; but as mentioned.... one just doesn't know. I am leaning toward the first option, but may ask for references of owners who opted for #2. 

I need to admit that option #2 is very tempting as it intuitively seems that Greta would come away really well trained and I think the transference to our use of the commands might be a little odd at first, but I sense it would work just fine. Afterall, we would see her and train with her once/week along with the trainer's observation and supervision. Of course we would enjoy a little break, but would really miss her, too! 

This is a bit more difficult than I thought it would be.:crossfing

Doug


----------



## BentleyBeamer (Sep 18, 2013)

*Training*

When our dogs where puppies they would lead each other on just like naughty kids egging each other on. We never had the need for choke collars or never had to spank them. We would just change our voices and adjust the tone to make them understand it is naughty. Our neighbor uses a clicker to train her dogs but it just wouldn't work for us as we use voice commands as we previously had a Border Collie who was trained through voice and a whistle. Also a lot of patience is needed.
Retrievers are very intelligent dogs and really don't need a lot of training, just a lot of love and patience.
In our house we have two dogs, two cats (one is an evil cat) and two ferrets and all of them get on really well. Bentley & Beamer are very passive and gentle, they were taught at a young age not to jump up and to greet people by sitting before getting petted.
It just all takes time and you have to be the trainer otherwise they wont know who you are or who to follow.
Just my two cents, just show the love and they will love you right back.


----------



## olliversmom (Mar 13, 2013)

As per my breeders contract, olliver and I had to do 2 training sessions. We've been training together at st huberts, a humane positive rewards based training school and adoption center for 13 classes. Having previously trained all my own dogs was pleasantly surprised how many things we learned. But more important, we have forged a strong bond by successfully working together as a team. Ollie was a bit headstrong and the training was invaluable in addressing that tendency. And the positive training follows right along with my own dog rearing beliefs. So great fit.
instructor we worked with not teaching class 3 so we decided to try a recommended class down the road,rather than hour plus each way.
It was a mistake.
The class incorporates leash popping and aggressive verbal corrections. 
To each his own. 
I have never personally used a choker, leash pops or loud verbal corrections when training my pups and find it unnecessary. My dogs have always been excellent learners.
At New school, the two teachers were amazed that Ollie worked the lessons better than any other pupil in the class, including the teacher's 14 month old dog, with just food lures and gentle commands.
I am not saying u cannot successfully teach a dog obedience thru adverse methods, I just don't understand, especially with intelligent, intuitive, sensitive dogs like goldens why you would choose that over a positive approach. 
As for the sending of the dog away, well Ollie would never forgive me. I can't understand how a bond can be formed when one is partner absent.
Sorry if I sound very opinionated about the training methods. I went from one straight to another and the difference in the room energy, the dogs attitude, demeanor had me taking those long drives back to S.H. We are having a blast!


----------



## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

NFexec said:


> First off, as the OP, I want to thank you all who responded with very insightful comments. But secondly, I was aghast that my title says four MONTHS! It would be four WEEKS! Ack!
> 
> The pulling of the leash with a choke collar is something that is used with discretion and only to start the attention getting when the dog doesn't comply with the command. It's use is reduced significantly once training has gotten underway.
> 
> ...


Good luck on your decision! If you do decide in kennel, let us know how it worked out!


----------



## ashleylp (Jul 23, 2011)

As a trainer, I just wanted to put in my two cents.

I do board and train programs in my home... and they are expensive. I offer 1-4 week packages and the average person sends their dog for two weeks. I have never had a client who has not been happy with the results.

BUT - I also offer private lessons (once a week, in their home, with THEM working with the dog) and I always tell my clients that this is the better option if they can commit to it. I also tell them that although board and train programs seem like a quick fix and easy option, they MUST follow through.

I basically equate it to weight loss. If I had a client who wanted to lose 500 lbs, and they do a board and train, I am losing all the weight for them... but they still have to keep it off. If they don't eat right and continue to exercise, the weight will come back. Clients MUST work with their dogs constantly and follow-through on what I have taught the dog... or they won't see long-term success.

So I guess I wouldn't write the board and train program off, but recognize that the trainer will teach the behaviors but you have to enforce them, as opposed to having to both teach and enforce (private lessons).

Hope that makes sense!


Edit to add: I also allow clients to visit my home if they are unsure of the environment. I allow them to observe me working with their dog. I treat every situation as if the client is watching. I am no more harsh in private than I would be comfortable being in public. I can be stern, but I am never mean or abusive. I know that one person can ruin it for all... and I hope that all trainers strive to be the best they could be in private as well as in public.


----------



## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

I know you aren't asking this, but I love the training method in the book "control unleashed-puppy". It is clicker, and most significant it teaches shaping with a clicker. 

Agree with training your own dog, because it is more about training you.

Also, private lessons are well worth it.


Good luck!
Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I know from experience the more you work with your dog the more consistent and fluent you become, as does the dog, it also goes a long ways to building a strong, lifelong, bond and relationship. If you haven't done formal training classes with your dog, basic obedience classes and more, that would be a good place to start, even if you have, there is no shame in repeating - classes are about teaching you how to teach your dog and a good trainer will be able to help you with your specific issues, and trouble shoot when/if you are having problems.


----------



## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I do in home boarding school training. We keep the dogs for 3 weeks (or longer if the issues they have require a longer stay) and they live with us and our pack. We spend an hour and a half transferring the training to the owners when we return the dogs and then do an hour and a half follow up consult with them a week later. We are also available via phone or email for an unlimited time period. We also offer Continuing Education to the owners, if they go out of town, their dogs can come stay with us again for however long the owners will be gone. The owners also can attend as many of the group classes that our company offers as a part of the boarding school package, and we encourage them to do so.

Most of the training problems we deal with is lack of consistency on the owners' part. That's not a jab at the owners, they just don't normally realize how much dogs need consistency. We've had multiple golden retrievers, mainly first time owners who don't realize that goldens actually are as much work as any other breed. Plus the fact that we are golden retriever people. 

I am sure there are some trainers out there that offer what we offer who are not nice people or who are mean to dogs. We aren't those type of people, so there are some of us who are trustworthy and who would never dream of abusing any dog.

I think that you (the OP) need to decide which way you want to go with the training, but keep in mind that you will probably need some classes, too. I always said that I went to training classes to learn how to train my dog, instead of going to training classes to train my dog.


----------



## NFexec (Jul 14, 2012)

*Update*

Well....

Over the past few weeks, we've been doing our best to train Greta on the basics. She was generally doing better - but still a long way from where we had hoped she would be. (this is after a few months of accumulative training sessions with us). So we decided to have her stay with the trainer. Greta is a very strong and determined soul and to date she has never NOT walked with us without pulling or straying from our side at least some of the time during our walks. 

After 11 days, we had our reacquaintance with Greta and the trainer. Greta was so much more compliant and calm. We nearly cried! She never pulled, she never jumped up on anyone, and she never attempted any biting or mouthing. She walks along side, sits, lays down, and comes (all on leash for now) very nicely. After our session, we had time to get lovey-dovey (is that a word?) with her and she was just nuts with love and excitement. 

So - - - we continue this for the next four weeks and have our weekly training sessions (ours - not Greta's!). Based on how things went the first week and a half, we are optimistic. We miss her terribly, but I have to admit it's nice not to have to vacuum the carpet every other day! 

We're not the least bit worried about losing any bonding or closeness with her. She's simply wonderful. All the trainers love her and say she is the best looking golden they've ever seen!

Wish us luck with the rest of the program. :wave:

Doug & Linda


----------

