# new training class - small vent



## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

That's too bad. The instructor should have either said to leave dogs at home, or given people the chance to put their dogs in the car or bring a crate if they were going to be talking the whole time. Might be something to mention to the trainer or the manager.

I did a flyball class that was almost as bad - for 45 minutes each class they wanted us to clicker train the dogs to hit a spot on the wall. Every class. Needless to say it was more of a sit and talk to other people because it was insanely boring (I think I had Ticket doing it the day after the first class, and they had no alternate things to do - at the end they did one recall per dog and that was it). 

Lana


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## Faith's mommy (Feb 26, 2007)

that's the funny thing - every other class i've gone to has had you leave the dogs home the first night.

she kept talking about the intense training and how she'll be quizing us, etc.... fine... but let's *do* something!

also, and this is huge for me, she suggested bringing toys to class to keep the dogs occupied while they are working with other dogs. she suggested a kong filled with peanut butter. i was thinking - are you nuts? just how many fights do you want to see?


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Faith's mommy said:


> she suggested a kong filled with peanut butter. i was thinking - are you nuts? just how many fights do you want to see?


I use peanut butter bones in class all the time for the dogs -- put peanut butter in one of the hollow bones. Why should that start a fight? If another dog is working and mine isn't, the bone is a great pacifier. If the working dog can't be under enough control so as not to come over and try and take my dog's bone (the only way I could envision it starting a fight) then that dog shouldn't be in class.

Just curious what your concern is over a peanut butter kong in class? Please share.


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> I use peanut butter bones in class all the time for the dogs -- put peanut butter in one of the hollow bones. Why should that start a fight? If another dog is working and mine isn't, the bone is a great pacifier. If the working dog can't be under enough control so as not to come over and try and take my dog's bone (the only way I could envision it starting a fight) then that dog shouldn't be in class.
> 
> Just curious what your concern is over a peanut butter kong in class? Please share.


Yay for peanut butter bones. One of Vito's favorite parts of class! It is a great way to keep dogs busy so owners can listen.


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## Faith's mommy (Feb 26, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> I use peanut butter bones in class all the time for the dogs -- put peanut butter in one of the hollow bones. Why should that start a fight? If another dog is working and mine isn't, the bone is a great pacifier. If the working dog can't be under enough control so as not to come over and try and take my dog's bone (the only way I could envision it starting a fight) then that dog shouldn't be in class.
> 
> Just curious what your concern is over a peanut butter kong in class? Please share.


there are 11 dogs in the class. if she's working with one and the other 10 have to amuse themselves i can absolutely see fights happening. so, i give mine a peanut butter kong, but the other 9 don't have one and start trying to come over to check it out. i can see Faith getting growly and snappy over that. it also forces the other owners to have a constant battle keeping their dog away from mine. not fair of me to do that, no?

why even introduce the temptation? even some of the best behaved social dogs don't want to share their goodies, and to assume that it'd be fine for people to bring high value treats to class and not expect a problem seems completely foolish to me.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I can see both sides.

My dogs are all excellent and just sitting and ignoring. And to me, that's part of being a good therapy dog (or public access dog, period). 

I feel like a dog that would get up and lunge at a dog several feet away because it is guarding while enjoying a kong should not be in class- nor should a HANDLER who would lack the common sense to keep his dog away from a dog that's eating/chewing a bone.

At the same time, I am sure it was frustrating... but working dogs must not show interest in other dogs, or in people, without permission or a signal. It probably was a form of training in and of itself  My dogs get a ton of play time, but when we're in public (not even working) I expect my dogs to snooze at my feet, under my chair (if possible) and ignore all distractions. Most of my crew grew up hanging at busy beaches and similar, so that comes naturally to them. Being lazy helps too- I have an exceptionally calm Golden and two Whippets. But, IMO, any dog can learn this with ample socializing and play time when appropriate.

I hope the class improves, though, because that does sound extremely boring. I often skip the first day of a class because I hate that. Not because my dog won't just sleep at my feet- but because *I* get bored out of my brain! LOL I skip the first day of some college classes for the same exact reason. I just want to get on with things!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

PS, maybe suggest a ten minute meet and greet before class so all the dogs can say hi, play a bit, etc? Then the initial "HEY, NEW DOGS!" thing will be out of their systems.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Well, like I said - I use them all the time and it's never been a problem. And if the other students can't keep their dogs away from your dog's bone, then perhaps they aren't ready for a busy class environment? I mean really, it's not hard for me to keep my dog away from yours during class... Dogs need to learn that they can't always have what they want when they want it - including your dog and his bone.


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## beargroomer (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm sorry you had a bad time at your first class. First nights are always a little hectic. The dogs will get better at settling down with the coming weeks. I think it's important for dogs (especially ones that will do therapy work) to learn how to ignore other dogs and people. 

Like Nicole and Vito, Gibby and I love the PB filled bones during class. We never see any dogs in our class fighting. They're all busy with their own and there is enough space between eachother. Sometimes our instructor puts dividers when she feels a certain dog is too distracted by a neighbor. As long as your instructor has you guys sitting with enough space between eachother, it should be fine. Hope your next few weeks are a funner experience for you! I'm sure Faith will do great!


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## windfair (Jul 19, 2008)

I'm getting a little nervous about Ranger's first obedience class now...he LOVED puppy kindergarten where he was able to basically do whatever he wanted and play, play, play with other puppies and sniff all the other owners. We start beginner's obedience this Tuesday (a first for both of us) and I'm worried we might get sent back to puppy kindergarten!


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## Sadiesdream (Jul 11, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Well, like I said - I use them all the time and it's never been a problem. And if the other students can't keep their dogs away from your dog's bone, then perhaps they aren't ready for a busy class environment? I mean really, it's not hard for me to keep my dog away from yours during class... Dogs need to learn that they can't always have what they want when they want it - including your dog and his bone.


I second this. Its not as if you're in Obed 1. These dogs should already be trained to the point of knowing commands and following them. If the owners can;t keep control of their dogs a simple PB filled kong should weed out the people whom arent ready for this type of class. Theres a huge difference in me signing my puppers up for a Obed 1 class and signing them up for Rally without any type of obedience training.. It defeats the purpose entirely in my opinion. So feel free to bring your pacifiers with ya to class for your pup, because there may be situations outside of training where your furkid will have to stay in down position for a long period of time without any issues, even when the parents are talking. My guys go to training weekly and we have as mentioned a " Say hi and sniff off". It allows all the pups to get the NEW DOG NEW DOG NEW DOG out of their system and helps make the bullmastif next to sadie less of a problem. Good luck with training!!!


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

Faith's mommy said:


> there are 11 dogs in the class. if she's working with one and the other 10 have to amuse themselves i can absolutely see fights happening. so, i give mine a peanut butter kong, but the other 9 don't have one and start trying to come over to check it out. i can see Faith getting growly and snappy over that. it also forces the other owners to have a constant battle keeping their dog away from mine. not fair of me to do that, no?
> 
> why even introduce the temptation? even some of the best behaved social dogs don't want to share their goodies, and to assume that it'd be fine for people to bring high value treats to class and not expect a problem seems completely foolish to me.


How big is the space? This is a therapy dog class - one would presume that you guys are learning and practicing working around distractions. If you go into a nursing home there is a good chance that someone, somewhere is going to have a plate of cookies or their left-over meal in their room. Shouldn't a therapy dog be able to work around this? Aren't these dogs on leash? If the other 10 people in the class don't have enough control over their dogs to prevent them from getting your dogs bone/treat/toy/etc than you have bigger problem than what you're giving your dog to settle. Just my opinion, but I don't see a problem with the bone - absolutely watch your dog and watch out for your dog if someone gets loose - but seriously...I hope that people have more control over their dogs...

Erica


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

I've never heard of using pacifiers in class for the dogs waiting. Usually our classes move too fast for that - there's a minute to sit and watch a demo then the dogs are working again, or waiting in line to. Plus I don't think it's a bad thing to expect my dog to lie down and be quiet when needed (usually with puppy classes we use the 'down time' for owners to work on restraining their pups). 

The only class where I would have seen that being worthwhile is the one place I'd never go to again for a class anyway. To me if I'm paying for a class (generally classes here are $20 an hour) I'm not going to be impressed if my dog and I are sitting on a chair for long enough for that to be needed.

Lana


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

MurphyTeller said:


> How big is the space? This is a therapy dog class - one would presume that you guys are learning and practicing working around distractions. If you go into a nursing home there is a good chance that someone, somewhere is going to have a plate of cookies or their left-over meal in their room. Shouldn't a therapy dog be able to work around this? Aren't these dogs on leash? If the other 10 people in the class don't have enough control over their dogs to prevent them from getting your dogs bone/treat/toy/etc than you have bigger problem than what you're giving your dog to settle. Just my opinion, but I don't see a problem with the bone - absolutely watch your dog and watch out for your dog if someone gets loose - but seriously...I hope that people have more control over their dogs...
> 
> Erica


That is why they are taking a class for the dogs to become therapy dogs. When I took the class with Danny, I had to struggle with him almost every class because he is overly dog friendly. No matter how obedient he is the rest of the time, when a new dog walks in, he tends to lose his brains somewhere. The first day of class is not when you expect the dogs to be perfect, or even exceptionally good. That is why you have 6-8 weeks of classes and lots of time to practice. And yes, both of my boys are certified therapy dogs. But they are not perfect dogs, or robots, either. But when they are working, they know it and are calm and gentle.

I am sorry it was frustrating Faith's mommy! I know how that can be.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

fostermom said:


> That is why they are taking a class for the dogs to become therapy dogs. When I took the class with Danny, I had to struggle with him almost every class because he is overly dog friendly. No matter how obedient he is the rest of the time, when a new dog walks in, he tends to lose his brains somewhere. The first day of class is not when you expect the dogs to be perfect, or even exceptionally good. That is why you have 6-8 weeks of classes and lots of time to practice. And yes, both of my boys are certified therapy dogs. But they are not perfect dogs, or robots, either. But when they are working, they know it and are calm and gentle.
> 
> I am sorry it was frustrating Faith's mommy! I know how that can be.


I "get" that it's a class to become therapy dogs - my point is that in order to be in that class which is presumably 4-6 weeks in duration the dogs should be under control in a class setting. The owners should be able to keep their dogs close to them - with a leash. And the dogs should not be of the mindset that they get to go and play with the other dogs or people. If the class consists of 11 out of control dogs it is not preparation for therapy work and should be treated as a basic or level one intro class. 
Erica


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## Faith's mommy (Feb 26, 2007)

well, i guess i should update this a bit - week 2 was the same. except, we have two new dogs. so, i guess we are now up to 13 in the class, in a room that was already crowded with 11.



we had 50 minutes sitting listening to lectures on - 

the "t-touch" - i.e. putting a human's teeshirt on a dog backwards so that the tag is touching them just below the neck. this is said to help calm them during thunderstorms or fireworks.
what to do if an aggressive dog is charging you (turn to the side, don't look at it, don't run)
what dogs use for calming signals. our homework for next week is to observe our dog and note their individual calming signal(s).
practicing when you should give a verbal correction. so, she had her assistant (human) pretend to be a dog and we had to give her a "sit" command. the assistant sat, and then we had to practice at what point we gave a verbal correction - i.e. when she lifted her butt or shifted her shoulders. this was quite silly and the poor assistant looked embarrased.
tried to teach us that when the dog does lift it's butt, you should give a verbal correction until they sit down again. i am not a fan of verbal diahrrea commands - the instructor wants us to say "eh-eh, eh-eh, eh-eh" over and over and over until the dog sits again. i won't do this. Faith and i already have a system. she lifts her butt, i say "eh-eh, sit" and she sits again.
but, then, finally (!), we got up from our chairs for a moment to practice putting them in a sit before you go through a doorway. i wouldn't play nice with this. Faith does not like to sit on linoleum. she slides all over and is not comfortable. she's got a very solid "wait" where she stops dead in her tracks and waits for the next command. the instructor told me i had to put her in a sit. i told her i wasn't going to do that, that we have a different command that's already solid and we're using that. she puckered her face up like she was sucking on a lemon, but, Faith was perfect (one of only 5 of the dogs that were) so she can keep sucking on that lemon.

according to the materials she passed out the first night, she should have introduced some medical equipment the 2nd night. hopefully she'll do that next week.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

Ugh! Hope it gets better. Sounds a bit like the instructor is 'babying' everyone and not assuming you have a brain and can figure things out. 

We went to a PAINFUL obedience seminar once, the presenter took all morning to explain that you wanted to walk in a curve when doing turns in the ring, rather than doing a sharp 90 degree turn. So, she had everyone stand on a chalkline curve, with the right angle as a guide, visualize the curve, then walk it, then go back to the start, visualize the curve, then walk it - over and over again. Then the next group did this, then the last group - this took about 2 HOURS to get everyone through. Then after lunch, she started with the first group again to do LEFT turns, same thing. Needless to say a lot of people left, went outside to hang out and train in the parking lot, and the next day those who showed up all brought reading material. The really sad part was that the presenter never seemed to notice that people were sleeping, reading books and otherwise not impressed. She's never been back for a seminar here - go figure hey?

Lana


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## Faith's mommy (Feb 26, 2007)

ok, week 3 update - again, 50ish minutes of sitting, listening to lectures. the list of topics were - 


she went around the room and asked everyone to give examples of their dog's calming signals. this was actually kind of interesting, except for the folks who didn't seem to understand the question, even though she discussed calming signals *quite* thoroughly the week before. i.e. one of the owners said their dog's calming signal was "our problem is the way he barks at people he sees walking by" um.. hmmm.. :uhoh:
the history of clicker training and the proper timing of clicking and treating
she then did a session teaching us how to train "look" to our dogs, as well as how to get them to sit and down. um, seriously - why on earth would they accept anyone into this class who didn't have them solid already? they were showing the sit and down with the lure technique - like they were puppies and didn't understand what the commands were. 

the person that sits near us (with a lovely yellow lab girl i just love) and i were both commenting during the sit/down stuff that both our dogs have CGC's already - we don't need lessons on how to get them to sit.

they then showed us how to start teaching the touch command. that i will practice on and hope to get her at least most of the way trained by next week.

still not one introduction to any medical equipment or specific situations we may run in to in the course of a therapy visit.

oh! and, there is a dog in the class who is a nightmare - growls and lunges at the other dogs and on top of that he's very overweight (owner tells us, he's not fat, but big boned, so DH and i are calling the dog Cartman). it turns out, she was asked to stop coming to the early class and come to ours instead because he was having so many problems with the dogs in the first class. um, no, tell her to stop coming with a dog that has dog aggression issues!


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## Faith's mommy (Feb 26, 2007)

week 4 update - 

we practiced sit and down. the instructor wants all of us to have a 5 second down stay. um, hello - this is supposed to be therapy dog training, not basic.

it actually was quite funny. the other dog who has their CGC wasn't making her dog do the down / stay during our practice time. the instructor pointed it out to her that she needed to get her dog to have a good down stay. the owner replied "my dog has a 5 *minute* downstay which she needed when we passed our CGC. i'm not going to have her practice a 5 second down stay. i'm not going to go backwards in her training."

none of the other owners practiced "touch" like they were supposed to so Faith was the star when it came to that. 

what really gets me angry though - the owner of the out of control dog i've mentioned before asked if the trainer would be honest with everyone about whether their dog was ready to go through therapy dog training II with her. i almost fell off my chair - the instructor said "everyone in here could pass the test today. i have no worries"

what?!! that dog is dog aggressive, she has NO control over him and he can't even complete a two second sit stay or down stay. how on earth is the instructor thinking that that dog should even be in this class is beyond me, but to say that he's ok to move on? seriously? ***!


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## kgiff (Jul 21, 2008)

Wow. Your class sounds really disappointing. Was there any pre-requisites for this class? I haven't taken a therapy dog class, but all the skills for the TDI test were covered in our CGC class (in addition to the CGC requirements -- like our milling crowd usually included someone with a cane or crutch and a wheelchair).

Hopefully you're getting something out of the class.


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