# Are very well trained dogs happy?



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

If you make the training fun, and always keep it a game he enjoys he will be happy to "perform". It's all how you approach the training.


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

I agree. Goldens love to please and if you keep training upbeat your pup will feed off the positive energy and love to perform. I say all this as I sometimes reinforce some less than perfect behavior in my boys. I let Caue bite me in play and he is two. I let him tackle me and lick my face. OK I'm a weak golden owner.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Oaklys Dad said:


> I agree. Goldens love to please and if you keep training upbeat your pup will feed off the positive energy and love to perform. I say all this as I sometimes reinforce some less than perfect behavior in my boys. I let Caue bite me in play and he is two. I let him tackle me and lick my face. OK I'm a weak golden owner.


 
Max thinks that running off with my shoe is the most fun thing in the world, and it makes me laugh so hard that .........umm, well, I just can't reprimand him for it. I be weak, too.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

It depends entirely on the dog and how he was trained. A blanket statement cannot be made. I also don't think that such an assessment could be made meeting a dog one time. A dog that is making public appearances such as an Airbud dog, would have to be very well behaved in such situations. 
My dogs are very happy, very well trained dogs. Because they don't jump up on people, or don't lick people, and act "civilized" in social situations certainly does not mean that they are not happy. Perhaps having good manners is being mistaken for unhappiness. I find that just as sad - people so used to untrained, ill-mannered dogs that they would think a well behaved dog is unhappy.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

I think that Max, although I wouldn't presume to say he's "well trained" cuz we have lots of work to do and we know it, is the happiest dog I know. He IS trained, not to jump on people, not to greet people unless I say so. The airbud dog may have been extremely tired, too - I would think a day of appearances and having to be well-behaved would be tiring after a while.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Think of it this way -- a well trained dog is allowed and even welcomed in public, to meet new people and dogs, to go lots of places, basically is welcomed with his owner everywhere. What could make a golden happier? An untrained maniac is meanwhile at home in the crate.
It all depends on HOW you train the dog. Do you make it fun or are you a drill sargeant? 
I have a friend with a 10 yr old golden. I have known them since the dog was a pup. The dog is wild. Not only does he jump all over new people, drag his owner down the street to meet and perhaps fight with new dogs and clobber new people, he steals toys and plays keep away, barks for attention, and just about any other annoying, manipulative, demanding behavior you can think. His owner thinks this is hilarious, integral to the dog's personality, and that it would be a shame to "train him out of it." I think it is a crime. There's no way I would allow this dog in my house, and he'd be totally unsuitable to take to an outdoor restaurant, a hotel, etc.
On the flip side there is Fisher, who is very well trained, well mannered in new places, knows not to clobber new people, is quiet, and responds very well off leash. He is welcome and does great in new environments. My friend thinks Fisher is "moody" and "serious." I think Fisher is thrilled to be with me and happy to go to new places. 
So there ya go, it's all in how you look at it. 
Also remember that dogs thrive under leadership. They WANT you to instruct them and tell them how to act. They LIKE not having to guess who is in charge.
Another quote comes to mind, from field trainer Mike Lardy: "Leave something in it for the dog."
You may spend a lot of time training and proofing for a solid recall, but that means your dog can now be off leash to play fetch in a field or walk in the woods. An untrained dog could not do these things.
Best of luck -- and happy training!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Sure they are! Dogs love nothing more than to interact and communicate with their people. I also personally feel like dogs who know what to do feel confident and happy, too.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

OK I read the responses so I'll say that a dog trained with unkind methods might not be happy- but I am assuming from your statement that your dog is happy that you are using upbeat methods and he seems to enjoy it


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## AcesWild (Nov 29, 2008)

Moxie met my new roommate yesterday and she didn't even bother to getup to greet her, even though I encouraged Moxie to be sociable. I think some people take her devotion and attachment to me as aloofness when really all she wants to do is sleep. She's old and wants very little but I can understand how people would think she's vacant or whatever...

Keep it fun, Moxie loves working.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

As I was reading Anney's comment, I saw the photo of Fisher in her signature with his happy face, lol. It's hard to picture him in my mind as moody and serious.

Don't we have another Airbud on the forum, the happy Nugget of Dustyrdr?

It sounds like Zip loves his training right now. Maybe you could just have small goals, and check at each step that he still loves working for you? Canine Good Citizen is a nice attianable goal that wouldnt tax a dog. My goldens definitely do like to be included in outing and gatherings of all kinds. I can&do take them anywhere, even to my job teaching English. Tally, especially loves formal training in obedience and field work, but my Finn isnt too enthusiastic about it. If you do see signs of burn out, you can back off. Congratulations on a very nice golden!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I think there are a bunch of factors here. The first is people's perception of a dog's mood. Some people are just plain bad at reading dogs and think an under-exercised, rowdy dog is "happy." Frequently, a dog like that with no leadership is confused and trying to engage, not happy.

People might mistake a calm, focused dog for less happy when that couldn't be further from the truth. A dog can feel deeply fulfilled by working with his human and showing how well he can engage with people. Dogs don't show happiness by panting. Even wagging isn't a sign of happiness per se, though it's often mistaken for it. A dog shows happiness by being content; he knows what his job is and he enjoys doing it.

At Ajax's puppy class, people with rowdier dogs commented on how "calm" he was. One woman almost seemed to be making an excuse for the fact that she was struggling so much with her Wheaten. The fact of the matter is that Ajax is a huge spazz with boundless energy, but I bring him to class after significant exercise. We also practice skills all week in all kinds of distracting situations. Heck, we practiced puppy pushups and eye contact in the vet's waiting room last week! Her Wheaten, I feel confident, gets practiced with a few times a week but never sees other dogs except at class. Of course he only wants to run and play! Sure, he's enjoying himself at class, but wouldn't, under any circumstances, call him the "happier" dog of the two, since he was spending so much of class being chastised and half strangled. (It's a correction-free class, but you just can't teach some people).

The other set of factors are the training methods involved. A "well" trained dog can be dutiful and obedient without being truly happy. I think you risk developing this kind of behavior if you use more than minimal correction in your training methods. Harsh training is a surefire way to drain the fun right out of a dog, but even more mild corrections can create a dutiful but joyless dog. I made this mistake in training Gus's leash skills. He was rarely on it since his obedience to voice was surefire (and positively trained), but we trained for the leash with the Monks' "pop" corrections. He learned that pulling was unpleasant, so he walked dutifully next to me when he was leashed. He never learned that it could be a blast the way he learned with fetching (which, if dogs go to heaven, he's surely doing right now), recall, and all of his other obedience.

With Comet, I set out to eliminate corrections from every possible aspect of his training and instead worked on creative positive solutions to problems. I even began starting training sessions by saying "You wanna play a game?" and tried to move my whole mindset to the idea that dog training should be a fun game for both of us. He is joy personified now. He'll sit calmly for company and children, and he'll walk on a loose leash or at formal heel, even around other dogs, but he's one of the happiest dogs I've ever met.

So I guess I think people mistake energy for happiness in dogs when the energy is often a sign of confusion or lack of exercise instead. But I also think you can make a dutifully obedient dog that isn't as happy as possible if you use the wrong mix of methods.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I do think a lot of it can be the personality of the dog.

Danny thrives on training and loves doing what I ask him to do. He is my buddy and wants to know what the next exciting adventure might be. He is always alert and looks happy all of the time.

Jasper is an old soul in a young dog's body. He will do what I ask him to do and I can trust him off leash because he is going to stay by my side. He is totally devoted to me. But he tends to look sad most of the time. It's just the way he is. I always get a lot of joy when he does show excitement over something, because it's really rare (other than when I come home from work).


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## Doodle (Apr 6, 2009)

Pointgold said:


> It depends entirely on the dog and how he was trained. A blanket statement cannot be made. I also don't think that such an assessment could be made meeting a dog one time. A dog that is making public appearances such as an Airbud dog, would have to be very well behaved in such situations.
> My dogs are very happy, very well trained dogs. Because they don't jump up on people, or don't lick people, and act "civilized" in social situations certainly does not mean that they are not happy. Perhaps having good manners is being mistaken for unhappiness. I find that just as sad - people so used to untrained, ill-mannered dogs that they would think a well behaved dog is unhappy.


Very well said...I agree 100% with this. My husband and I have done some pretty intense training with Brady thusfar, and we have tried to keep it fun for him. In my non-expert dog trainer opinion, I'd say he is very well behaved for the most part (yes, we still have the issue with the occasional jump). But I like PG's point about people not expecting dogs to be well behaved. I take Brady to my office with me 3 days a week. He stays behind the front desk with my receptionist and greets people who come in (by sitting and waiting to be petted behind the baby gate I have set up). I can't tell you how many people have asked me if I have given him some kind of medicine to make him calm or if there is something wrong with him because he's so calm. I just say, nope, he's just well trained. He knows when I'm working he is to stay quiet, play with his toys or lay on his bed. When we break for lunch or it's the end of the day, he comes alive and wants to play. And yes, I'd say he's quite happy.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

First off, it sounds like Zip is probably better trained than most dogs in that he walks on a leash and acts in a civil manner to people and other dogs. So I think you're past the crazy dog=happy dog stage.

The phrases that stand out in your OP are "super dog" and "stage Dad." I think that dogs, like kids, can sense your expectations. If you approach the next trick with, "hey, let's try this." and the process is more important than the outcome, the dog gets one vibe.

He'll get a different vibe if your expectations are high, and every trick moves you closer to "super dog" status, or something. In short, I think a dog can sense what you've got invested in the outcome.

And while I don't pretend to be able to parse this Air Bud's mood, I would bet that a dog who's been on a Hollywood soundstage where $1,000s of dollars every hour are riding on him properly executing a trick, that he has sensed disappointment and frustration in his handlers. Or maybe he was just tired that day or his belly hurt because he ate too fast.

allen


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

just curious, what does everyone define as "well trained"? I would think that would greatly influence the answer to the original question.
I define as "well trained" a dog that knows the basic obedience commands, and is 100% reliable on them. This, to me, would include sit, down, stay, come, here, wait, drop it, leave it, stand, fetch it, and probably a few others.
Also included would be the "manners", such as not jumping on people, not yanking on the leash, settling down when told to, not shoving things in your face (toys) or demanding attention when told to stop, not begging for food, not mouthing people, not stealing things off counters,etc., not barking needlessly, and probably a LOT of others.
But it wouldn't necessarily include tricks, etc. 
Any other opinions?
This drifts a little, but this little ditty is pretty well circulated in the obedience world and I just love it. Makes me misty eyed every time I read it. I think it can be extended to just plain having well-trained dogs.
*What Is An Obedience Title, Really? *








*by Sandy Mowery, from Front & Finish*
Not just a brag, not just a stepping stone to a higher title, not just an adjunct to competitive scores; a title is a tribute to the dog that bears it, a way to honor the dog, an ultimate memorial. It will remain in the record and in the memory, for about as long as anything in this world can remain. 

And though the dog himself doesn't know or care that his achievements have been noted, a title says many things in the world of humans, where such things count. 
A title says your dog was intelligent, adaptable, and good natured. It says that your dog loved you enough to do the things that please you, however crazy they may have sometimes seemed. 
In addition, a title says that you love your dog. That you loved to spend time with him because he was a good dog and that you believed in him enough to give him yet another chance when he failed and in the end your faith was justified. 
A title proves that your dog inspired you to that special relationship enjoyed by so few; that in a world of disposable creatures, this dog with a title was greatly loved, and loved greatly in return. 
And when that dear short life is over, the title remains as a memorial of the finest kind, the best you can give to a deserving friend. Volumes of praise in one small set of initials after the name. An obedience title is nothing less that the true love and respect, given and received and recorded permanently


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

A dog is happiest when unleashed, bouncing around, digging, rolling in mud or dead fish, swimming, chasing, exploring, doing dog stuff


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## Phiddler (Sep 1, 2008)

avincent52 said:


> First off, it sounds like Zip is probably better trained than most dogs in that he walks on a leash and acts in a civil manner to people and other dogs. So I think you're past the crazy dog=happy dog stage.
> 
> The phrases that stand out in your OP are "super dog" and "stage Dad." I think that dogs, like kids, can sense your expectations. If you approach the next trick with, "hey, let's try this." and the process is more important than the outcome, the dog gets one vibe.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you commented on "Superdog" and "Stage Dad." I purposely used those words, because I don't want to change Zip's eager, happy attitude. Zip is very happy and seems very proud of being complemented on his behavior. He always seems ready to perform and do as asked. We always make everything we do fun and a game, so I find myself saying "good dog" or something like that, or giving him treats all day long. My thinking has been that if he is always successfully doing as he is told, he will be a very happy dog, and so far that seems to be the case. I have always treated him like he has something I want him do, and he does it well. I have definitely been influenced by NILIF. I guess my question involves the transition from amateur clown to professional ham.


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## kgiff (Jul 21, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> just curious, what does everyone define as "well trained"? I would think that would greatly influence the answer to the original question.


I joke that I have highly trained dogs, but they're not well behaved. They have titles on them, they love to work for me, they know a ton of commands, but they still do occasionally jump on people, bark at the doorbell, and I can't keep them off my bed. :curtain: 

I really do think so much has to do with the dogs' personality, how they've been trained, how they handle stress, etc. I'd like to think my dogs are happy and that their training allows them freedoms that they wouldn't have if they weren't as trained, but I also give them lots of times to be dogs -- play fetch, chase, go swimming, chew on bones, and hand out on the couch and watch tv with us.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

Phiddler said:


> I'm glad you commented on "Superdog" and "Stage Dad." I purposely used those words, because I don't want to change Zip's eager, happy attitude. Zip is very happy and seems very proud of being complemented on his behavior. He always seems ready to perform and do as asked. We always make everything we do fun and a game, so I find myself saying "good dog" or something like that, or giving him treats all day long. My thinking has been that if he is always successfully doing as he is told, he will be a very happy dog, and so far that seems to be the case. I have always treated him like he has something I want him do, and he does it well. I have definitely been influenced by NILIF. I guess my question involves the transition from amateur clown to professional ham.


He's really cute. 

I think that as long as you're setting him up to succeed, it's a win-win. If no matter what he does or how well he does it, he gets rewards, both tangible (a treat) and intangible (your positive vibe) he's happy (or at least one kind of dog happy.) 
It's when the word "should" creeps into the conversation (He "should" be able to learn this trick, so why isn't he?) that it ceases to be fun and you've got to worry. 

The other point is that Air Buds probably get less opportunity to roll around in dead fish and the like. 

In general, I think it's better to interact with your dog too much than too little.

FWIW, I thought the movie Bolt was very perceptive about dog behavior, and especially looking at the world from a dog's point of view. A dog thinks something's important or worthwhile because the leader of his/her pack thinks so (kind of the way young children think.) Shoulder that responsibility wisely.

This also reminds me of a thing that happened a couple months ago with Tessie. We went for a long walk and I tied her up to a tree outside the falafel store. I was gone about 90 seconds, maybe 15 feet away and watching her the whole time. A woman came up and when I went back outside (without my falafel) she said, "you should never do this to a dog." 
I asked "why not?" and she looked at me as if I were an axe murderer.
In a perfect world, I wouldn't have to tie her up, but the alternative was leaving her at home in the crate for an hour, so whether she realized it or not, Tessie was getting a pretty good deal. 

allen


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