# Update on Tiny's liver enzymes



## Dallas Gold

hotel4dogs said:


> We got the results of her 3 week re-check back today, and it wasn't what I wanted to see.
> Her ALT is up to 309, from about 170. Her ALP is up to about 550, from about 350.
> Sigh. I'm just not ready to deal with this yet.
> It might be the increased rimadyl. If so, the vet said he feels the benefits outweigh the risks, as she's been feeling really really good since we increased it.
> Or it might be....whatever??
> We have to recheck in 4 weeks to be sure it's not heading up more. Although I don't know what we'll do if it's going up.


Oh no, so sorry to read the liver enzymes increased. Is it possible you could try something like buffered aspirin for the inflammation, or maybe even a different NSAID like Metacam?


----------



## Bentley's Mom

I'm so sorry the numbers weren't better. I don't know enough about this to offer any advice but I can send prayers.


----------



## hotel4dogs

we're going to re-test in a month, and decide what to do then. If they are higher, I think we will try a different NSAID, or possibly prednisone. 
She had also just finished a 3 week course of amantadine, and had 9 days prior had the propofol and various other sedating drugs. So we don't really know the cause.
My vet, who is a very practical person, said that as long as the values don't spike up, he feels the benefits of the rimadyl exceed the risks. But he is very open to trying a different pain management drug.
Of course, I will do LOTS of research between now and then to have a better feel for where we should head.


----------



## hotel4dogs

a very, very good article on liver enzymes in dogs:

The District of Columbia Academy of Veterinary Medicine


----------



## AmberSunrise

Oh no! I hope the values do go back down soon,

I've had 2 dogs spike on Rimadyl. Once the Rimadyl was removed, the enzymes went back to within normal range. I no longer allow Rimadyl or another drug (forget the name but know it when I hear it) to be prescribed. 

Tramadol & Metacam are 2 that seem safer for my dogs.


----------



## Finn's Fan

Barb, I'm sorry Tiny's numbers are going in the wrong direction. Hopefully, it's the result of all the different things in her system recently, but if not, you will research and make whatever will be the best decision. Give the old girl a gentle pat from me, please.


----------



## Dallas Gold

hotel4dogs said:


> we're going to re-test in a month, and decide what to do then. If they are higher, I think we will try a different NSAID, or possibly prednisone.
> She had also just finished a 3 week course of amantadine, and had 9 days prior had the propofol and various other sedating drugs. So we don't really know the cause.
> My vet, who is a very practical person, said that as long as the values don't spike up, he feels the benefits of the rimadyl exceed the risks. But he is very open to trying a different pain management drug.
> Of course, I will do LOTS of research between now and then to have a better feel for where we should head.


It very well may be the drugs and the propofol caused an elevation. I hope the recheck shows the enzymes in lower numbers.


----------



## hubbub

All our fingers and toes are crossed for better results next time. :crossfing I'm glad you have a caring vet for you and Tiny to rely on.


----------



## PrincessDi

Sorry that Tiny's liver enzimes are so high. Can't offer much wisdom. Max's Kidney values were high and they took him off Deramaxx. He is now on Metacam and doing really good. Keeping Tiny in our thoughts and prayers that they correct themselves for the next panel.


----------



## jealous1

Our permanent foster, Susie, takes pain meds due to her back left hip. When she first came, they just had her on Tramadol. After talking w/ my vet, we now alternate between Tramadol and Metacam. She feels that by doing so, it helps avoid/decrease lliver problems and stomach issues that come with longer term use of each.


----------



## hat trick

My boy also has elevated liver enzymes. He is taking Deramax for arthritis. I also take him to a holistic vet for accupuncture and she started him on Liver Assist (NaturalPet) that has milk thistle in it that is supposed to help the liver. Will be having his liver enzymes recheck in about 2 1/2 months and am anxious to see if it helps. I will post if it makes a difference and maybe this is something you may want to try.


----------



## Claire's Friend

I am sorry to hear this too. My guess it's the drugs. I think you are already giving SAM-e and Milk thistle, that is about all I can think of. Did you ever do Adequan injections with her?? I have had great success with that.


----------



## hotel4dogs

Thanks everyone. My vet, I believe, suspects that the biggest problem is just her age. She will be 15 in 3 weeks. 
She already takes milk thistle and sam-E, and she already gets adequan injections once per week. Great minds think alike 
I do think changing up the meds. is going to be the only possibility.


----------



## Sweet Girl

Oh, darn. I hate reading posts like this. But I'm going to hope that the numbers are down again in a month. I hope it was just a fluke, and that if not, a switch of meds might help. :crossfing

Big kisses for Tiny.


----------



## Cathy's Gunner

Barb, just seeing this today. I'm sorry to hear about Tiny's liver enzymes. I'll continue to send good thoughts and prayers for Tiny. Sounds like you have a very reasonable vet. Hugs...


----------



## MyMaggieGirl

Sorry to hear this, Barb. I hope you will consider changing the meds if need be.


----------



## coppers-mom

I'll hope and prayr Tiny's values improve in the next four weeks and if not, then a change in meds is all she needs.

Big, big hugs to you.


----------



## Rainheart

Just wanted to say how sorry I am to hear this. I hope you can get some kind of regimen figured out for miss Tiny.


----------



## AmbikaGR

Sorry to hear this Barb. It is so difficult to know what is best when the "experts" can't give a clear answer to what the might be. Give tiny a hug for me.


----------



## hotel4dogs

Thanks for the kind words. At her age, of course we are more concerned with quality of life than quantity of life, and if the rimadyl is the only thing that keeps her comfortable, then so be it. But for now we still have a lot of other drugs to try.
What I'm thinking I might do for now is double the adequan injections to twice a week, and cut the rimadyl back to what it was previously (1/2 dose per day) and see what happens.
I hope it's only the drugs causing the elevation. Fingers crossed!


----------



## Claire's Friend

What Glucosamine do you have her on? I swear by Glycoflex III so much I have told people to try for 3 months and it they didn't think it helped I would refund the price of the bottle. Never have had to pay a dime!! I have used several other Glucosamine products in the past and none have come close to it. 18 (almost) year old Erin had no hips, bunny hopped when I got her at 9 years old. All I ever had her on was GF III, never needed any pain meds and she was still running until right before she died. If you haven't tried it, you might want to think about it. I always kept her at the loading dose, never went down to maintenance .


----------



## hotel4dogs

we had her on several different glucosamines in the past and never saw a difference, but that was not one of them. I will have to find that one and give it a try. Do you know the dose for her? She's 60 pounds.


----------



## coppers-mom

You and Tiny are often in my thoughts and always in my prayers.


----------



## 2golddogs

I hope Tiny is having a good day. Hope the recheck shows lower values.


----------



## boomers_dawn

Aww I hope they go back down. Boomer's been on Rimadyl forever but it never bothered his liver enzymes yet. I guess they have different reactions to different meds. He's on Adequan too - $$$$$$$ and Tramadol as needed - supposedly Tramadol has minimal side effects.
I had them on Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM but took them off when they had loose stools due to holiday feeding at my family's. I should put them back on. Hyaluronic acid was suggested to me too - just a thought for you. 
Good luck w/ Tiny's med regimen.


----------



## Claire's Friend

hotel4dogs said:


> we had her on several different glucosamines in the past and never saw a difference, but that was not one of them. I will have to find that one and give it a try. Do you know the dose for her? She's 60 pounds.


One in the am and one pm, they are chewable, like treats
I get mine at KV vet Supply, way cheaper than the stores around here. I really should go to work for them, I have given them so much business. Make sure that's it GF III.


----------



## hotel4dogs

*Update on the update!*

Took Tiny to the vet yesterday for a recheck of her liver values. One of the techs said that, if Tiny hadn't been going there since she was 8 weeks old, they would not believe me that she's 15! She acts like she's 10!
Anyway, the vet just called with the results .
While still above normal, her values have dropped back down to where they were before the last check about 5 or so weeks ago. Her ALT was about 168 or so, her ALP was around 350 again. Both values are about half of what they were 5 weeks ago.
I've cut her rimadyl in half again, so we suspect that's what's making the values go up. When she was on the full dose, they were much higher. 
But it's a quality of life thing. She seems fine on the half dose for now. If she is having a tough time, I will increase it "as needed". If we have to, we can switch to a different NSAID.
But I'm very, very pleased to see they're much lower.
The vet also said that her hemoglobin and hemocrit (?) are a little low, but nothing he would consider abnormal in a geriatric dog.


----------



## Claire's Friend

hotel4dogs said:


> Took Tiny to the vet yesterday for a recheck of her liver values. One of the techs said that, if Tiny hadn't been going there since she was 8 weeks old, they would not believe me that she's 15! She acts like she's 10!
> Anyway, the vet just called with the results .
> While still above normal, her values have dropped back down to where they were before the last check about 5 or so weeks ago. Her ALT was about 168 or so, her ALP was around 350 again. Both values are about half of what they were 5 weeks ago.
> I've cut her rimadyl in half again, so we suspect that's what's making the values go up. When she was on the full dose, they were much higher.
> But it's a quality of life thing. She seems fine on the half dose for now. If she is having a tough time, I will increase it "as needed". If we have to, we can switch to a different NSAID.
> But I'm very, very pleased to see they're much lower.
> The vet also said that her hemoglobin and hemocrit (?) are a little low, but nothing he would consider abnormal in a geriatric dog.


:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:


----------



## hubbub

Fabulous news! Go TINY!!!!!!


----------



## Dallas Gold

Barb, I'm so happy for you!! 

FYI, we are on a half dose of Rimadyl for Tobe's eye inflammation and so far, no adverse side effects like we had when he was on the full dose.


----------



## nolefan

hubbub said:


> Fabulous news! Go TINY!!!!!!


I couldn't say it better


----------



## BajaOklahoma

Our Bailey has had elevated liver enzymes for three years. Our vet put her on Denamarin, two pills a day (give on empty stomach). Her labwork improved dramatically in just one month and has remained just slightly elevated for three years. While it is possible that her normal is slightly high, we prefer to keep her happy on the Denamarin.

And both girls are on Osteo-3 for their joints - and have been for several years. Riley has some genetic orthopedic issues and this has head off issues for her. We've tried a variety of cheaper brands (blind trials - my husband gives them their pills and I can always see a difference in 8 hours), but these are available on amazon.


----------



## AmberSunrise

I love that update - you go Tiny!!


----------



## coppers-mom

Hooray! Hooray! Hoooray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Made me smile and want to shout with glee!


----------



## PrincessDi

So glad to read that they are back in line!! I know that had to feel amazing to be told that she acts more like 10 than 15!!!


----------



## GoldensGirl

So happy to see the good news for Tiny. I'm with you all the way on the quality of life issues. Deramaxx worked wonders for Charlie.

Hugs and prayers,
Lucy


----------



## Sweet Girl

Good news!!


----------



## AmbikaGR

:--big_grin:


----------

