# comparing kennel clubs/AKC/UKC/CKC



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I have some familiarity with AKC CH requirements, and with UKC, but I don't know anything at all about CKC (meaning Canada, not the one here in the US).
How does one get a Canadian Championship? Is it more like UKC, where you have to have "competition" but not necessarily huge numbers of dogs or like in AKC where you need to beat a LOT of dogs and get 2 major wins(23 dogs for a 3 point major in my area, sheesh)? How many dogs do you have to defeat in CKC? How many "major wins" do you need? How do they award points? 
Thanks!


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## SunGold (Feb 27, 2007)

I *think* in Canada you need 10 points but you don't need any major wins like in the US. But I do think you need to win under at least 3 judges total, I'm sure some of the Canadian breeders here can give you more details.


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## DUSTYRD2 (Feb 28, 2007)

You need to acquire 10 point under 3 judges. The maximum number of points that can be taken at one show is 5.
Points are awarded based on the # of dog beaten as below:

SECTION #1. A dog awarded WINNERS at a Championship show held under these Dog Show Rules shall be
credited with a number of championship points (ranging from 0 to 5), and the determination of the number of
championship points to be credited to a dog awarded WINNERS shall be as provided hereunder.
SECTION #2. The schedule to be employed in the determination of the number of points to be allocated a dog
awarded WINNERS shall be as follows;

Dogs Competing 1 2 3 to 5 6 to 9 10 to 12 13 or more
Points Awarded 0 1 2 3 4 5
*includes the dog awarded Winners
To determine the number of points earned by a dog awarded Winners, total all dogs in competition which were
defeated, directly or indirectly, for the highest of the following official breed awards: Winners, Best of
Winners, Best of Breed or Best Opposite Sex and then consult the schedule set forth above. The point system
provides for additional points if a class dog awarded Best of Breed also places in the group as listed below;
BREEDS GROUP GROUP GROUP GROUP
COMPETING FIRST SECOND THIRD FOURTH
13 or more 5 4 3 2
10 to 12 4 3 2 1
6 to 9 3 2 1 1
5 2 1 1 1
4 2 1 1 0
3 2 1 0 0
2 1 0 0 0
1 0 0 0 0
A class dog awarded Best in Show at an all-breed Championship show will be credited with 5 points inclusive of
any points earned at the breed or group level. In counting the number of eligible dogs in competition, a dog
that is disqualified or that is dismissed, excused or ordered from the ring by the judge, shall be included in the
calculation for championship points (Absentees are not to be included). In order for a dog to be recognized as a
Canadian Champion it must: (1) earn at least ten championship points under at least three different judges;​
and (2) be individually registered in the records of the CKC or have a CKC Event Registration Number (ERN)
These rules apply at shows across Canada.


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## DUSTYRD2 (Feb 28, 2007)

Sorry I copied & pasted that and it's not coming out right.
Dogs competing at the class level.
1 = 0 pts.
2 = 1 pt.
3 to 5 = 2 pts.
6 to 9 = 3 pts.
10 to 12 = 4 pts.
13+ = 5 pts.


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## Packleader (Nov 27, 2007)

Good questions Hotel4dogs and thanks for the info. Dustyrd2. That filled in some blanks for me as I am still learning the points in AKC. However I learned a lot a couple of weekends ago being a ring steward. That was fun.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

ok, so does that mean that, in Canada, you could theoretically get your CH by beating 1 other dog 10 times? So there's no "major" wins needed?
Thanks


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## DUSTYRD2 (Feb 28, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> ok, so does that mean that, in Canada, you could theoretically get your CH by beating 1 other dog 10 times? So there's no "major" wins needed?
> Thanks


 Not quite. You would have to beat 2 other dogs, 10 times. You don't count your own dog in the mix. And it would have to be a Winners Dog or Winner Bitch win to get that 1 point. Winning the class only gets you into the next round of judging for Winners and Reserve Winners. (Thank heavens we don't see those low numbers that often though. LOL) Yes, you are correct, there are no "majors" required.
Sorry, I reread my corrected post and it is incorrect that I put in "competing at the class level". So you would have to take 1st at the class level and then take Winners Dog/Bitch to get points.
So when are ya coming to the frozen north to compete? LOL
Good luck!!


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

You also have to have at least one 3 point (or better win)...I like the CKC point system - it's FAR easier to know what you have and what you need 

I also find the atmosphere to be a lot more relaxed - really nice people, the judges are nice...not that there aren't nice people and judges at AKC shows - but it's a different vibe for sure.

Erica


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## Kohanagold (Nov 5, 2008)

*CKC Ch. Points*



hotel4dogs said:


> ok, so does that mean that, in Canada, you could theoretically get your CH by beating 1 other dog 10 times? So there's no "major" wins needed?
> Thanks


No, that's really not the case. 

To become a Conformation Champion, your dog must earn at least 10 points under at least three different judges and have earned at least one 2-point win, either at the breed or group level. 


So, you have to beat at least 2 other dogs at least once to get your 2 point "major". A friend of mine has a German Pincher (AMAZING DOG!!) and that was an issue for her because there is no competition. So, she had to earn her points at the group level because even with one other GP in the ring (which is the most competition she had at the breed level), it wasn't enough to get her 2 pt win. She did get it, fairly easily, but it was a frustration for a bit. Hope that helps. BJ


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## Kohanagold (Nov 5, 2008)

Also, when you figure out the number of points, you do count your own dog. If you are the only dog, there is obviously 0 points. If there is one other dog, plus your dog, its 1 point. 3-5 dogs competeing (including your dog, so 2-4 other dogs), its 2 points... and so on. There are no points available for the class, just for winners and of course there are no points for reserve (if there were, Paige would be in great shape... argh!) BJ


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

I like the system but wish a a Can CH was worth a little more. I don't like having to send dogs to the US but find its almost imperitive if you want to prove (ecpecially to people from the States) that you have worthy dogs. Generally, Americans scoff at Can CH's. One thing I do like is that the clubs here bring in American judges (they have cut it back lately to to the cost of travel). I just wish the quality, numbers and competition was a little better, not to say that we don't have quality just that the US is where is really counts. I am probably off topic but thats just my 2 cents but that would be my comparision of the CKC to the AKC.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

That's probably because the AKC CH is much more difficult to obtain, especially for some breeds. With Newfs I have to really travel to find TWO majors. One is pretty easy (only a 3.5 hr drive one way)....but generally I'd have to travel at least 6 hrs one way to find that second one. Golden majors are fairly easy to find in this area. The points awarded for a major varies depending on the region, as well.

However....because of the sheer numbers of Goldens registered with the AKC (in various regions) it takes a LOT more of them to make a major.

For example: Goldens need 21 bitches and 17 dogs to make a 3 point major in my region (region 3) whereas Newfs only need 7 bitches and 5 dogs for a 3 point major in this region. (It takes MORE for a 4 point major and even more for a 5 point major)

Here's the AKC link for the point schedule (which may change, therefore is updated yearly):

http://www.akc.org/events/conformation/point_schedule.cfm

Here's a quote and a link which explains things pretty clearly:



> To become Champion (Ch.), a dog must earn a total of at least fifteen points, including two “major” wins under two different judges. A major consists of 3, 4, or 5 (the maximum) points at an individual show. Wins of one or two points are considered “minors.” Any combination of at least two majors and minors totaling 15 points earns a dog its championship.
> 
> The number of dogs or bitches of a breed entered and present at each show and the region of the U.S. and Puerto Rico where the show takes place determines the number of points awarded.


http://dogshows.suite101.com/article.cfm/dog_shows_made_simple


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

thanks for the replies, it's interesting how different the systems are. I can see value to each, and I can see that the AKC CH has gotten so hard to get that it's really prestigious. A lot of dogs are dual AKC/CKC Ch, so I think the quality of the dogs isn't different, though.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> thanks for the replies, it's interesting how different the systems are. I can see value to each, and I can see that the AKC CH has gotten so hard to get that it's really prestigious. A lot of dogs are dual AKC/CKC Ch, so I think the quality of the dogs isn't different, though.


Two part response...I don't know if I'd call an AKC CH prestigious - there are lots of deserving dogs who get their CH - but there are a lot of unworthy dogs that earn their championships too. I'm sure the same is true in any venue. Some of it is faces on the other end of the leash...there are many many lists out there with people asking about judges with the question of "can s/he find a good dog not attached to a handler" - the reponses seem to be that a lot of judges can't.

The quality of dogs can vary widely between breeds in Canada and the US. Goldens are a pretty competitive breed in both countries - though I've heard that there was a time when "american dogs could just walk up to canada and leave with their CH in a weekend" - I'm sure that's an exaggeration, but there are days when I've seen some breeds (in Canada) create their own points - one owner/breeder enters 5-6 of their own dogs. There have been a couple of groups when I look at some of the dogs in there and wonder how the heck they won the breed...

Erica


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## Kohanagold (Nov 5, 2008)

MurphyTeller said:


> Two part response...I don't know if I'd call an AKC CH prestigious - there are lots of deserving dogs who get their CH - but there are a lot of unworthy dogs that earn their championships too. I'm sure the same is true in any venue. Some of it is faces on the other end of the leash...there are many many lists out there with people asking about judges with the question of "can s/he find a good dog not attached to a handler" - the reponses seem to be that a lot of judges can't.
> 
> The quality of dogs can vary widely between breeds in Canada and the US. Goldens are a pretty competitive breed in both countries - though I've heard that there was a time when "american dogs could just walk up to canada and leave with their CH in a weekend" - I'm sure that's an exaggeration, but there are days when I've seen some breeds (in Canada) create their own points - one owner/breeder enters 5-6 of their own dogs. There have been a couple of groups when I look at some of the dogs in there and wonder how the heck they won the breed...
> 
> Erica


I completely agree with that, that there are a lot of dogs (in both countries) that are unworthy. I dont really think that the Can Ch holds no value though. I think it does and of course I'm Canadian, but I do think its important. 

As for the one weekend... its not all that uncommon for a dog to finish in a weekend, but not just American dogs. A lot of them come up and leave with nothing too. But it entirely depends on the competition and the judges. This is a HUGE generalization but from what I've seen, American shows are huge in comparison, but the quality of the dogs varies a lot more. Canadian shows are smaller (generally), but the quality of the dogs tends to be more consistant. Kindof a "pick your poison" scenerio. We do have some larger shows here and its the same too... the quality tends to vary more. BJ


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

MurphyTeller said:


> The quality of dogs can vary widely between breeds in Canada and the US. Goldens are a pretty competitive breed in both countries - though I've heard that there was a time when "american dogs could just walk up to canada and leave with their CH in a weekend" - I'm sure that's an exaggeration, but there are days when I've seen some breeds (in Canada) create their own points - one owner/breeder enters 5-6 of their own dogs. There have been a couple of groups when I look at some of the dogs in there and wonder how the heck they won the breed...
> Erica


Most times and I have seen many of them thats not exaggeration although there are dogs bred and born in Canada that can do the same. You make a very good point a few Breeders come to mind when you say making there own points LOL been there and seen that haha. When a certain dog can't finish in Canada it really tells you something about the quality of it. LOL my opinion and thats all I am saying.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

BTW, Tito's father was whelped in Canada and he's an awesome dog. He's exactly what AKC is looking for, although his owner refuses to show him.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Any photos of this dog??



hotel4dogs said:


> BTW, Tito's father was whelped in Canada and he's an awesome dog. He's exactly what AKC is looking for, although his owner refuses to show him.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

no, not a one, although she's supposed to be mailing me some of Tito and his father that we took recently and if they're viewable maybe I can scan them in.
She wouldn't show him because he's her stud dog, and she didn't want him gone for months at a time. Very small breeder, just a couple select litters per year. She doesn't breed for show, only for pet, and said it wasn't important to her that he be a CH. It's too bad, because a friend who is a handler begged her to let her take him out and she said no.
His father, tito's grandfather, is Faera's Starlight. They look very very similar, except that Tito's father is a little heavier in the head when view straight on.
Here's grandpa:
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=40824


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