# Hip Dysplasia... What would you do?



## damita (Jun 4, 2009)

Did you submit the x-rays to OFA? Honestly, I had one vet who questioned if my boy would pass and he came back "Good" and told me that Pyper would be excellent and she come back Fair. General vets are not the greatest at assessing hip x-rays for the most part and before I make a large decision I would want an experts opinion. 
You don't mention his age but if he is young I would avoid ANY jumps for now until he is finished growing - especially if there is concerns about his hips.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

If it were my dog, and he had verified Hip Displaysa, I would retire him and make him 100% cuddly, lovable Pet. I'd choose exercise that would help him as best possible and stick to that plan only.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I would submit to OFA.... and do lots of swimming. Being fat and out of shape will only make things 100 times worse of course.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

I would find a vet who specializes in sports medicine...and get an opinion from that person.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

I would either submit to OFA or bring the xrays to a board certified Orthopedic Vet for a second opinion.
If there is a problem I would proceed with caution depending on the severity of the diagnosis. If it is mild I would be okay with what your vet suggested with some minor changes. In agility you have to option to run the dog in the preferred class so that would lower the jumps by 4 full inches. And in training I would virtually never train at full height. The same would go for obedience training - basically never at full height. 
Keeping the dog in condition AND slim would of course be key. And from what you explained you have been thru this before and knew to stop as soon as your dog showed any signs of a problem. I think you will again know if you need to stop. 

Good luck!!


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

My vet is a rehab specialist--she believes in doing what the dog wants to do--if the dog is up for fun and games in agility and/or obedience, then go for it--that's what I would do. If you find that your golden isn't using proper form, for whatever reason--desire, structure--the hip problem--then there are plenty of other games to try--or just go for the basic levels.

And I agree with those who say that you should be speaking to a specialist. With hip x-rays, so much depends on the ability of the vet taking the x-ray, and the ability of the vet interpreting the x-ray. You want to make sure you're dealing with a vet that has a practice that is primarily devoted to performance dogs--and if you're doing that, that's great.

I think your vet has given you some very good advice--now you need to listen to Jack. What does Jack want to do?


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Megora

There is a good vet at MSU that does hip xrays he does the OFA stuff. You may want his opinion. I can give you his name if you want it. Also I know there is a good sports med vet on the west side of the state if you want their opinion. 

I sent you an email...

Ann


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

One more thing, positioning can make all the difference in the world on the read. Which is why you "really" want an OFA certified vet if there is any 'gray' area. 

Teddi's hips were NO WHERE near the socket, my vet got a pretty good shot since she was very cooperative. The surgeon took his own, and did not refute my vet's findings. 

Ann


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

How old is your boy? When I neutered Quiz at 10 months, I did a preliminary set of rads at my regular vet's office. We saw that one hip wasn't as tight in the socket as we'd like. I was devastated (with big, fun career plans for him!) so I went to an ortho vet for an eval who said he felt he'd be fine for a normal career, provided I kept him lean, fit, on supplements, etc.

When he turned two, I did OFA rads and he came back as GOOD. He's nearly seven and has no problems whatsoever. 

If I were you, I'd do OFA rads, keep him slim, fit and probably jump a preferred height rather than the full 24" - just to be on the safe side.

As for supplements, I use K9 Liquid Health's Glucosamine product.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Thanks for all of your responses - they help a ton while I'm sorting out what exactly I'm going to do with the boy. <- I think that I'm going to take it one step at a time. We have Novice Obedience shows coming up. As long as there aren't any automatic doors (one of his little phobias, he likes the sliding doors but thinks the ones that open inward or outward and 'bang' are out to get him) at the show location, we should do OK. Then again, I'm planning to trot up to the Armada show (Macomb County Dog Club?) this weekend to watch with him, and I get to see what he thinks about the noise level of an actual show. 

After that, I think Rally and then Agility (preferred). He's a chickenheart about loud noises, so he might have to be conditioned to deal with the bangs and noises of the equipment. He might not enjoy it enough to risk the jumps.

The techs talked me out of the expense of the OFA xrays. :doh: That and they definitely would have Jacks put unconscious because of the specific positioning. I didn't want to put him through that if the basic xrays were all I needed for the yay or nay. <- I'm rethinking that decision now. 

- He's 2 yrs old + 6 months. I think he's full grown though people immediately call him a puppy when they see him. I think because he's so hyper and bouncy about greeting people. :uhoh: 

- The g/c/msm supplement I picked up on the way home from the vet yesterday might be going back to the store. The little guy had a bad reaction to it. His poor tummy.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

How old is he? If he is young (less than a year), and he is only subluxed in the hip, with a deep socket and no bony changes, you might be surprised what can happen.

It is not unusual for a young Golden to be subluxed, and for the hips to tighten as they get older. I had it happen many years ago and is one of the reason I no longer prelim. I had young puppies whose hips would show as subluxed at 6-10 months and who would then clear as 2 years olds with OFA Excellent and Good, and with good hip production records.

You could send them into OFA and get their opinion on what the hips look like. Most vets just aren't that familiar with hip xrays and especially with young growing dogs.

Oop-just saw his age. I would send his hips into OFA and get their take on them, and you can go from there.


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## damita (Jun 4, 2009)

Megora said:


> The techs talked me out of the expense of the OFA xrays. :doh: That and they definitely would have Jacks put unconscious because of the specific positioning. I didn't want to put him through that if the basic xrays were all I needed for the yay or nay. <- I'm rethinking that decision now.


I thought the OFA fee was only $35 or $40 dollars? Not that expensive if you ask me (especially considering the cost of supplements or surgeries). I also question the quality of the x-rays taken if they would want to re-do the films? How can the vet tell if the dog has dysplaysia if the positioning on the x-ray would not work for an OFA evaluation? Just my 2 cents!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

damita said:


> I thought the OFA fee was only $35 or $40 dollars? Not that expensive if you ask me (especially considering the cost of supplements or surgeries). I also question the quality of the x-rays taken if they would want to re-do the films? How can the vet tell if the dog has dysplaysia if the positioning on the x-ray would not work for an OFA evaluation? Just my 2 cents!


I could be wrong, but the cost of the OFA xrays would go up because of the anesthetic, then also they would have to send it out for the OFA evaluation. 

The positioning for the OFA would be a bit more exact (they have specific positioning required by the OFA) and can be a bit more painful than a preliminary xray. I could be wrong, but the preliminary or basic xrays can judge whether the hips are dysplastic or not. The OFA can judge the extent of the dysplasia, etc, and obviously you have a specialist looking at the xrays... 

With the basic xray they did with my guy, his legs were pulled down and turned at the ankles. <- He was able to go through these xrays without any sedation. My good little munchkin. :smooch:

The difference in price that I was quoted =

$120-160 for the basic xray ($88 + cost of office visit/exam + possible medication)
$200 for the OFA


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

It's $40 to have OFA review hip and elbows--you would want to have elbows done--so the difference in price is the $40 OFA fee it looks like (to me).

Are you sure you don't want to get a second opinion? Can you ask around and find out which vet or vets the performance people use in your area? I think it's worth a shot to get some additional advice--not that your vet isn't good, but when I dealt with an experienced vet who dealt with OFA this man quoted one price, and could do the x-rays without any anesthesia, he was that good.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

rappwizard said:


> It's $40 to have OFA review hip and elbows--you would want to have elbows done--so the difference in price is the $40 OFA fee it looks like (to me).
> 
> Are you sure you don't want to get a second opinion? Can you ask around and find out which vet or vets the performance people use in your area? I think it's worth a shot to get some additional advice--not that your vet isn't good, but when I dealt with an experienced vet who dealt with OFA this man quoted one price, and could do the x-rays without any anesthesia, he was that good.


I'll check when I go to class tonight... 

I do like my vets, but yep... they've made mistakes on xrays before.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Megora said:


> I could be wrong, but the cost of the OFA xrays would go up because of the anesthetic, then also they would have to send it out for the OFA evaluation.
> 
> The positioning for the OFA would be a bit more exact (they have specific positioning required by the OFA) and can be a bit more painful than a preliminary xray. I could be wrong, but the preliminary or basic xrays can judge whether the hips are dysplastic or not. The OFA can judge the extent of the dysplasia, etc, and obviously you have a specialist looking at the xrays...
> 
> ...


I am pretty sure only Penn Hip requires sedation, not OFA. Penn Hip is what I would recommend if you want to see the exact grading of dysplasia per hip. An arbitary word such as fair, good, or excellent isn't going to tell you how tight his hips are, but Penn Hip will. Penn Hip requires three different views. One is the OFA view and two others using a distractor to simulate walking. 

All you need is one x-ray in OFA view to get a reading. It should already be done, the "basic xray"- the one that the vet had to take to give you a diagnosis. Ask them to send it in to OFA. There should be no further sedation required. 

 I've taken lots of Penn Hip and OFA rads lately. Let me know if you have any questions re: sending the film in. Since the x-rays are already done, you should only have to pay the fee for OFA to evaluate. The $200 is normally charged because it takes the vet's time, x-ray film, postage, expertise, etc.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I wonder if the person I spoke with for the quote (the tech) was talking about Penn Hip instead of OFA... and was just confused? Because she was talking about having to take 3 xrays, specific positioning, microchip (I wasn't sure what that was about) etc and emphasized that anesthesia was absolutely necessary. 

I'll give them a call and see if they could send the xray they took.


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

And since you're going to class tonight, it doesn't hurt to ask who is the vet or vet of choice amongst your friends. I suspect if it's anything like South Florida, you'll get the same 3 or 4 names--and that's it. If your vet's office is among them, that's great, then at least you have a couple of other names for a second opinion--because IMHO, to send a poor set of x-rays to OFA is not going to result in an accurate result--you want proper positioning--OFA won't reject x-rays just because they are poorly done--they'll read, and do their best at reading, what has been presented (actually 3 separate radiologists read the x-rays and render an opinion separately).

If your vet's name doesn't come up in class, then all the more reason to get another opinion. Plus, don't you want to check elbows? Elbows get as much as a workout with jumps as such as hips do--don't forget the other part of the package if you want to be fair to your future performance dog (again, JMHO).


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Megora said:


> I wonder if the person I spoke with for the quote (the tech) was talking about Penn Hip instead of OFA... and was just confused? Because she was talking about having to take 3 xrays, specific positioning, microchip (I wasn't sure what that was about) etc and emphasized that anesthesia was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I'll give them a call and see if they could send the xray they took.



OFA does require specific positioning for hip xrays. While they do not normally reject for poor positioning they absolutely will refuse too grade them if they are not by their standards. And to me it sounds as if the ones your vet did already would not conform to this. Many vets do require sedation for the OFA xrays to insure the dog does not move. Some vets will do them without sedation if the dog is very well behaved/trained as to not move. OFA requires one xray for hips and two (one of each) elbow. PennHip is normally three xrays for the hip evaluation and requires sedation.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I spoke to my instructor at class, and she expressed the same opinion as others here on GRF. She apparently had a 10 month old dog who was diagnosed with severe dysplasia by her vet, and fortunately got a second opinion as there was nothing wrong with the dog's hips. She told me to get a second opinion - but with an orthopedic specialist. And she gave me the name of a guy at MSU. She also emphasized that the xrays would not be any good if they don't sedate him. 

I'm going to pick up his xrays tomorrow and see if I can convince a specialist to take a look at them without me having to pay for another round of xrays. *coughs* Or worst case scenario, I could get a quote and see what I can do to save up for that. The 3 xrays including 2 elbows and 1 hips makes sense. 

Regardless of whether or not he has a hip problem, I'm still going to get him onto supplements. They can't hurt. And I know I will be doing another xray in a year when I'm 100% sure he's done growing and filling out. <- I will continue to keep the jumps low (10 inches) until then. 

I'm planning to just do a couple jumps every other day with him, just so he builds up those 'butt' muscles. Swimming is an understood, but I'm also looking forward to walking him this winter when we hopefully get a LOT of snow. It's good for human knees and hips to walk in snow. Must help dogs too, right? <- I saw somewhere somebody suggested walking a dog in sand to build up the muscles. I can do that too (when the park police aren't around to notice me and the dog jogging around on the beach). 

Thanks for all of your help on this! Please keep your fingers crossed for the little guy.


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## Trude (Jun 21, 2010)

*hi*

my saint bernard was diagnosed with hip displaysia at 11 months.she had xrays and i had a second opinion. we took her swimming at a dog pool in telford once a week for 1 year and bought her a BIOFLOW collar from where she did the swimming. also i kept her weight down which helped her alot. you would of never known bella had hip displaysia. bella sadly passed away last year at 8 and a half. she was the best.i would of thought The agility wouldn't help her hips my consultant recommended swimming and that's what i did Trudy


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

My ortho vet used my existing x-rays and did a thorough exam. Based on what he felt in the exam, he didn't feel additional x-rays were needed --- so I waited until he was two and re-did them for OFA, at which time the hips were rated as good.

Hopefully your ortho vet can do the same. OH- and when he examines your dog, you're gonna be convinced he's bending him enough to break him! I was, anyway! I really didn't know my dog's leg could bend like THAT!! ;-) (Ok... not really.... but sort of!)


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

My goodness... vet technology has changed a lot since we had elbow xrays done on one of our previous dogs 14 years ago. :O

Called the vet and instead of carrying a big envelope with original delicate xrays enclosed around from breeder to specialist to alternate vet to alternate vet, carefully trying not to destroy them... uhm, I'll have a CD with my own copy of the xrays!!!!!!!!!!! <- Yes, all of those exclamation points are definitely necessary. 

@Trude - Swimming - quick question -> You only went once a week? How long did you 'swim' him each session/week? Was it just like they do with people and doing laps?


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Megora- isn't that cool? Some vet hospitals can submit them digitally to OFA or Penn Hip. We don't have that technology- wish we did! 

If you wouldn't mind, I think some of us inquiring minds would love to see the radiograph of his hips!


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Most "specialists" will want their own xrays to get the right view. Not that it can not hurt to take yours but like many have said it could just be a bad shot so you may want more pictures. 

Also, there are a couple swimming facilities if you can find a good outdoor place to just swim Jack. There is one it Dexter at the same facility as Canine Sports and Recreation. Attached is a business called ARF (animal rehab facility) There is a heated pool it also has "wave" resistance capability. We took Teddi there when she was post op THR because it was winter. They also have an underwater treadmill. Not 'sure' but Michigan Neurology in Commerce has a rehab center they too may have a pool. I know they have a treadmill. 

Ann


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

@Ann - yeah. After talking with Raissa yesterday, I have a feeling that I'll have to have another xray taken with better positioning (w/Jacks zonked out). When he's relaxed, you can move his legs whichever way and he doesn't care. If he's nervous or anxious, then he bunches up and they might not have the same amount of flexibility to get whatever shot they need. 

I'm mainly looking forward to getting the xray and comparing it with the diagrams on the OFA website, as well as healthy and bad xrays online. I'm second guessing what I saw on Sunday. Maybe his hips really ARE bad and the vet was just trying to keep a positive spin. :uhoh: <- And yes, I know that positioning does play a part and could make hips look worse than they really are, etc. But I do enjoy worrying. 

I'll call around and get quotes from the guy at MSU, as well as a specialist out in Farmington Hills/Bloomfield.The vet at MSU went off original xrays with my previous golden, so I'm hoping he'll do the same here. I'm also going to email them over to the breeder and see what he suggests. :crossfing


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Okay... 

This looks dysplastic to me (comparing to diagrams on OFA), but not sure about the positioning.

Here's the link - it was huge when I tried posting it here in my post! :uhoh: 

http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad279/megora123/0JACK-1.jpg

It isn't anything like Sam's hips (really a lot of space between the ball and socket) or Danny's elbows (bone chips/spurs + lots of space).


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Hopefully it is poor positioning. I would have them redone by someone that is "Known" for doing good OFA xrays. Below is a link to my Oriana's xray to compare with yours.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=74638


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Thanks for the comparision. <:

One thing I'm looking at is the 'neck' part of the femoral bone. Going by the ofa diagrams, even for 'mild dysplasia' he should still have a little U in there. Your dog has a defined tip. With my dog, I can see the Y part of the bone, but it is missing that little tip. I'm gathering that means there is 'thickening' or remodeling of the neck (per the descriptions on the OFA website). Which means he likely has moderate hd rather than mild. Even if he could be positioned better... I don't think the femoral neck would look any better. :[

So I guess what I'm thinking right now - I don't think he is going to do any jumping other than the goofy stuff he does with regular training (he jumps a couple feet in the air to flip around into place) or playing. Considering he already is experiencing bone changes (I didn't realize earlier), I want to be careful. 

Just for other people who might be staring at their xrays and trying to understand why their dog is 'dysplastic', I found a couple good sites yesterday -

http://www.wildhauskennels.com/dysplasia.htm

AND ESPECIALLY THIS ONE (if you are just trying to sort out why the OFA says your dog is fair instead of good, or mild instead of fair)-

http://www.aladarbeagles.com/hd2.html

- For what it's worth. I wish that the OFA registry would include the actual xrays for the dogs, not just the grading. It would be interesting to see what Jack's parents' 'good' hips looked like.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Thanks for posting the xray. Jack's hips don't look very tight... I hope that you're able to continue with agility until he shows apprehension about it or pain.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

AmbikaGR said:


> Hopefully it is poor positioning. I would have them redone by someone that is "Known" for doing good OFA xrays. Below is a link to my Oriana's xray to compare with yours.
> 
> http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=74638


*nods* My breeder had a snit when she saw the x-ray and said that if Jacks was not lying flat and straight, then it could cause a bad reading. She gave me the name of the vet she uses and said I should go there. Hmm.


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

Jack's left thigh bone definitely isn't lying flat and straight--that looks curved to my eye--look at it compared to the other x-ray that has been posted on this thread--that is a very nicely done x-ray-- nice straight positioning of the legs. Also, nice UNIFORM positioning--both sides, left and right, look equally well-positioned to my eye.

Take things one step at a time (and trust me, I'm just like you--I research, and I go into my vet's office with the symptoms, diagnosis, and treatment--and she rolls her eyes and laughs, bless her). But if your experience is anything like mine, the ortho vet will look at what your vet did first, and will probably be able to determine if any further x-rays are needed (if he or she feels that what was taken are frankly, just not that good enough).

With my golden, Alli, when I brought in her set, the ortho vet didn't need to take another set--he came up with a totally different diagnosis, that she was just fine (now again, we're talking about a 6 month old pup in my case, at the time). And it turns out he was right, as she cleared OFA with a good rating after she was 2 years old.

I'm so glad you spoke to your instructor. Even if Jack has a diagnosis, I believe you'll feel better knowing that you are pursuing all options for him. Good luck and hugs to Jack from me!


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

His pictures look better than I remember Teddi's....  I would say his worse side looks like her best. Of course now her titanium hip is PERFECT. 

Belle never had her hips done, and of course I have no idea about her parents and of course I wondered after Teddi's dx. When we registered Belle at age 4 (procrastinator) I found out her dad was 'good'. When she had her back injury recently they took xrays, got her hips. Not a 'good positioning' but her hips really looked good in them for a 7 year old HUGE lab. That was comforting. 

Ann


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## eeneymeanymineymo (Oct 5, 2009)

Looking at your boys Xrays, the femoral heads are not fitting tightly into the sockets and very partial covering of the femoral heads. This Xray leans towards moderate hips (in my opinion). You can have your vet redo the CD with his AKC# and microchip information reset into the Xray and submit those Xrays to OFA still. This way you are getting OFA's opinion. 

Some states do not require anesthesia for OFA hips and elbows. Some do. Was your boy laying in a padded cradle on his back while his legs were extended down to take the Xray? Positioning does have a lot to do with getting good films. I think you should take a look at this:

http://leerburg.com/hipart.htm

Positioning is everything ........but bad hips are bad hips no matter how well they are positioned!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Some states do not require anesthesia for OFA hips and elbows. Some do. Was your boy laying in a padded cradle on his back while his legs were extended down to take the Xray? Positioning does have a lot to do with getting good films. I think you should take a look at this:
> 
> http://leerburg.com/hipart.htm
> 
> Positioning is everything ........but bad hips are bad hips no matter how well they are positioned!


Our vet required anesthesia for the OFA's - I don't know if that is their policy or if it is the rule. I just wanted to know if my dogs hips were dysplastic or not so I knew if I could loosen up with his training and start him on higher jumps. Anyway, I asked them to skip the anesthesia and only sedate him if it was necessary - that part was my fault as the overprotective mum.  

I'm going to get a second opinion, but it isn't going to change very much. I'm not going to put him through any jumps. There are low jumps in Rally Novice, but I'm debating whether I want to continue his training on those. Or maybe I will simply limit it as much as possible. I don't want him to have severe hips until he's an old geezer and has plenty reason to have severe hips. :

I'm still concerned about the bone changes (happens with mod hips) he already has - and I'm waiting for a call back from our vet. I'll discuss them with her and then I have a tentative appointment next month with a specialist. I may cancel that, because it makes more sense to focus on getting his weight down, getting him on a g/c/msm product that doesn't upset his tummy, and making sure he gets plenty of non-jumping exercise. I can always do another xray in 3-6 months to see where he's at. 

If there is no further damage, I could start slipping in low jumps again and get ready for Rally Novice. But that's up in the air. 

It may be expensive in the long run doing xrays every 6 months, but at least I'll have a good idea if I'm doing the right thing with him. 

Or I'll totally depress myself if I do everything possible and he still shows degrading. :uhoh:


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Thought I'd post an update (and keep this alive in case anyone else is in the same position I was a week ago).... :

*Spoke to my main vet (Fri) and while I wasn't totally confident with his feedback (he only looked at the dysplasia, waffled when I asked if he'd say it was mild or moderate/progressed hip dysplasia, and hadn't even seen the tops of the femurs and didn't know what to tell me about the possible wear/remodeling)... at least we had a nice chit chat about how to treat him and what I should do about Jacks other problem (he's storm phobic and we've been bombarded by storms). 

*Went to dog show on Saturday and found myself watching gaits and body language more... I'm pretty sure one golden retriever doing open had hip dysplasia or was dealing with age related arthritis (I'd wager he was older than 7). He bunny hopped on the fast and just barely cleared the jumps. His sits too... were painfully slow. 

He was a beautiful dog though and did not balk at anything. <- I was wincing when I saw his belly brushing the high jump both times over. I don't think I'd ask my Jacks to do the same, even if he was ready and willing to do anything I asked. 

*I'm smiling over here because I just got off the phone with my barn lady who has three German shepherds (2 whites, one regular) who have lived with CHD all their lives. Two are fourteen, the other is 13. They are slower moving, but not on any pain meds. They are on joint supplements and she has the chiropractor (the same one treating my old horse) do accupuncture on them once a month. 

She just told me I should switch dog foods (diamonds?), switch to the same joint supplement she uses (Kirklands own?)... <- Which isn't too bad. When I first told her he has CHD, she told me to spend the $2000 and have the surgery done. Even if he's acting like a normal athletic 2 yr old (besides the storm phobia flakeouts). :yuck:


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

If she feeds Diamond dog food, read the label. We were on that once, it was HIGH in corn, and my dogs did not do well on corn. 

When Teddi was dx, we had switched our dogs to Nutro Ultra she was on the puppy variety. Our vet said that food was fine, just to WATCH HER WEIGHT!!!! We keep her on the skinny side of normal. She picked up a couple pounds this spring when we were not getting the dogs out in our usual fashion and DH had started feeding the "summer rations", usually we are HIGH activity in the summer. She looks normal now but for her that is a few pounds too much. I don't think it matters what you feed, as long as your dog stays thin. I read once (don't know if it is true) that for every pound a dog is 'overweight' it is the equivalent of 10 pounds to you or I. I keep that in perspective. 

I know you have a lot of advice about supplements, and I told you what I use. It doesn't matter, as long as you feel it is working. I have had a lot of success with what I am using. Teddi runs, plays, jumps, carries on like a dog. She has no issues getting down or up, and (knock on wood) has not limped in over a year. Now I am more worried about her elbows than her hips at this time. I will change things with her as I see the need, and acupuncture is on our radar as she may need it but not now. 

Lastly, when my vet took Teddi's xrays I asked him his opinion of the severity. He said he was not a professional to read or judge the results but felt she leaned toward severe on the right moderate on the left. I commented that Jack's xrays looked like Teddi's left hip, and you got the word that he is probably moderate. So that made sense to me. You can manage this... it takes commitment but you are there. You will do fine, and so will Jack. 

Did you check out the Yahoo group? I do recommend that. 

Ann


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

*nods* Even if I'm ticked at Nutro for sneaking that corn gluten back into the food, I'm going to keep Jacks on Ultra. Other than the weight problem (I noticed he gained weight when I switched him back on it), I don't have any complaints about it. He has a nice healthy coat, good breath, shiny white teeth, his eyes are bright, no ear/bladder/ut infections, etc... those other things matter too.  

Supplements - *nods* I got a little sample of Cosequin DS from the vet and so far so good. We are starting slow and weaning him onto it. The other stuff I put him on immediately caused stomach issues and I wasn't sure if it was something he was going through (our collie had issues too) or if was the pills. 

The nice thing about Cosequin DS is I can just run over to Petsmart to buy a bottle when need be. Even if it is ten bucks more than online (the site you suggested plus the one I use for my horse supplies).


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## sdain31y (Jul 5, 2010)

*Surgery?*

Did anyone have their vet or ortho specialist recommend surgery after the HD Dx? TPO? THR? Why or why didn't they have the surgery?

I know they only perform TPO on younger dogs without any bone changes. But, how does performing TPO surgery mesh with the many posters that say their dogs hips were Dx as dyslplasic when they were pups and then OFA judged their hips good, exellent, etc when they are older?

We are in that situtation - two different orth specialists, two different Dx - HD and CCL tear, two different recommended surgeries - bilateral TPO and unilateral TPLO and no solution we are confident with.


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

When my vet diagnosed my second golden at aged 6 months with dysplasia, and sat us down with an ortho specialist to recommend surgery on both hips, my husband and I felt that for such a major surgery, we needed to get a second opinion. And we called the top ortho vet in the area. And then called our breeder, who, after hearing the story, was glad we were going for the second opinion with this vet, because it was one that she also had used and trusted (not that she didn't trust our original vet, but she had never heard of the vet practice we were seeing).

When that specialist said Alli was fine, and that he would not perform surgery even if we attempted to force him to, we felt better, but we still had worries, on and off, until she was x-rayed for OFA after she turned 2. Which vet was correct? This one, or our original vet? (who we had fired). When our breeder's vet came out and said that he was looking at a pretty set of x-rays, and was predicting OFA good hips and normal elbows (which is exactly what happened), well, all I can say is that my husband and I were very glad we decided not to go through with the surgery as recommended, and were very happy that we had fired our original vet--our decision was vindicated. Good luck with your decision--if you are anything like me, you fret over these goldens so.


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## sdain31y (Jul 5, 2010)

Thanks! That gives me hope maybe not having the surgery would be a good decision.

One bad thing thing is the second ortho vet is board certified and really thought of as the best around. But???? We'd take her to the closest Vet school, but at $500 or more each consult its getting expensive to continue to try to find the right Dx. Plus, not sure the ortho vet here would actually treat her after we got yet another consult if we decided on the surgery! Besides, can they actually predict how their hips will eventually end up as?

Yes, I worry to death over her. Three hours plus online just tonight looking for answers ........ and this has been going on for weeks. ugh!!! :bowl:


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

Wow, I know South Florida is expensive, but our consult was not $500--that I remember; it was maybe a hundred--but then again, I'm going back 12 or so years ago, so who knows, with inflation, prices could have gone up.

Have you spoken to your breeder, if you got your pup from a breeder? It really helped us that our breeder was also on the same page as us--after we got our second opinion and got back to her, she agreed with our decision to abide by his recommendation--and she reminded us about keeping her lean, no strenuous walks--just routine walks through the neighborhood, and lots of swimming. It made us feel better knowing that we were going to a vet that she also knew and trusted, and when we went to have OFA x-rays done, she insisted we use her vet that x-rays all of her breeding stock, even though he doesn't take any more new patients. 

I know exactly how you feel--I am a google searcher too and can find a million things and then my mind is spinning when I'm doing research--sometimes I can't keep it all straight.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

WOW - I just went through a consult with a board-certified ortho vet here in Los Angeles and it was only $140 for the consult fee. Are you getting x-rays or other diagnostics for the $500?


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## Karen2 (Jan 5, 2009)

I feel like a novice about dogs, we have had Sierra going on 2 years this coming Oct.
reading thru these posts kinda scare me, but, what better place to start with some questions.
Sierra will be 4 yrs in Aug. Her weight when we got her was about 90 lbs, she she now under 78 (haven't weighed her lately) she's had Anaplasmosis, which I hear just goes into remission and never really goes away. 

She has pretty good energy, but seems to tire quickly after some intense play. The other thing I have noticed after a fun session of play and running and jumping around, after a rest she is gimpy, seems to favor her left rear, she doesn't put a lot of weight on it. She seems fine after she moves around some.
She is also a pacer when she walks on leash, so her butt is wiggling a lot when we walk.
I'm not sure where I should go from here...
I don't have a lot of cash to just start asking for test I know nothing about.
Should I try adding some supplements like glucosamine or something and monitor her a little while first?
There is a Animal Chiropractor in the area I could take her to to check her out.
I'm open to suggestions, I really want to know what I should be looking for as it seems to always come back to the Anaplasmosis with her vet and wants to do another round of antibiotics.
Thanks for any help!
Karen


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Should I try adding some supplements like glucosamine or something and monitor her a little while first?


It couldn't hurt. I have my guy on a combination of Cosequin DS and Triple Joint Max. <- I'm going to try Cosequin DS soft chews at some point, as my golden hates the pill form, but drools for the Joint Max chews. 

The sway... I don't think you can go by that, because even our collie does the sway. And he has excellent hips. If anything, look at the legs and see if your dog is turning one or both the feet in or out with every step or when she standing still. And even there, I think this could also signal sore or stiff muscles. 

It costs between $120 and $200 for the physical exam + xrays. As mentioned earlier in the thread, the difference is whether they put your dog under anesthetic or not. It may cost even MORE if you go with a specialist. I know the specialist we are in speaks with regarding my golden charges a little over $400 for everything. *coughs* And you can see why when you step into their office. It's like the Taj Mahal of vet clinics. 

Um - but I'd definitely have a regular vet do the xrays. They can't diagnose or rule out hip dysplasia otherwise. 

I'd have them done, particularly as there is a chance that it's not the hips bothering him. At least you can rule that out and not worry about it.

Something to keep in mind too - I fussed (and still do) about the hip dysplasia diagnosis on this thread, because this dog was supposed to be my superstar. His registration name is "Jumping Jack Flash" if that gives you any hint as to what I was thinking back when I brought him home and filled out the paperwork that same day. I'm dealing now and have begun to set the bars lower for him. And I'm content. Even if I'm still not completely ready to change that official name to "Couch Potato Jack". 

The same is true if you have an active lifestyle and wanted a dog to run on marathons with you. Or whatever. 

But for most people who want a dog for company around the house and town - you can generally keep your dog comfortable and still have a dog who can go out and about with you. It's not like he's been diagnosed with something that will take him away from you. You don't always need surgery and sometimes you don't need to put them on NSAIDS. It is possible to adjust to what your dog is able to do and you will recognize when your dog is going to have a bad day - in which case you can give him something to take away the pain early _before_ he starts limping.


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