# Hip Dysplasia + obedience?



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I spoke to two vets who I really respect, one being a orthopedic surgeon at the practice, on what my options re/my HD dog are as far as hiking and training. They both emphasized that keeping a dog active and trim will do more good than bad, provided that I'm careful and watch for any reluctance or stiffness. They want my guy using himself and building up lean muscles around the joints. 

I described what he would be doing in agility and obedience, including jumping his height and length, and they again did not see that being a problem. 

_You do need to get your dog on treatment_ - Glucosamine/Chon/MSM especially. 

As far as limping in the ring - yes, you can be excused if your dog is noticably limping. It does impact your training and showing in a big way if you have a dog who is not sound. <- My previous golden had bad elbows and did get stiff sometimes. He was not sound until he was almost 2, and even afterwards every now and then he would over-exert himself and be stiff or downright lame for a few weeks. <- And this usually happened when I was getting ready to show him. 

He still did get his novice title in obedience, finishing with two firsts and a third for his three legs. And I regret not trying Rally with him, because I suspect he would have done fine in that as well. And the jumps are much lower than in regular obedience. <- And he could jump pretty well and was a better weaver than his brother who had solid hips and elbows. We did a little agility for fun after we finished novice obedience. 

He loved being trained and worked with, even when he was stiff and hobbling. And seriously, after I brought Jacks home, he still wanted his training time with me even though we weren't going to classes anymore. 

So definitely - do the classes with your dog and take it one step at a time. Even if you just show in novice obedience and rally novice, you will enjoy spending the time with your dog. And if he's high energy and quick learning, you will have a ball.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

I had a Golden who had surgeries on both hips from hip dysplasia. I showed him in novice obedience and rally but could go no farther because he wasn't able to jump. We had fun just showing in the novece classes and he was an awesome performer. 
I would check with your vet to see if there are any limitations he recommends then have fun within the limitations of your pup's abilities.
Best of luck to you.
You might also want to check with a rehab vet or one with experienced with performance dogs to see if they can recommend any exercises and guide you in your dog's activities.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

even if you don't do obedience, consulting a vet rehab specialist, or other appropriately qualified dog rehab person would be a VERY good idea to know about how to best maintain quality of life with various exercises (and what to not be doing).


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

RedDogs said:


> even if you don't do obedience, consulting a vet rehab specialist, or other appropriately qualified dog rehab person would be a VERY good idea to know about how to best maintain quality of life with various exercises (and what to not be doing).


^ Seconds this. We did this with our Danny and helped keep him comfortable and sound most of his life. I mentioned cases where he was stiff or lame, but those were not all the time and were understandable considering the state of his elbows. He was still a very active dog. When he was old, his biggest problem came from rear end weakness. <- Which case, I do know that some physical therapist types are now saying that certain exercises you do with your dogs now while they are young, may limit the extent of what they have to go through when they are old.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

My mild unilaterally dysplastic girl had a UD and 2 RE legs before a splenic tumor killed her at almost 12 years.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

The hard part is...if you have a dog that LOVES to train...they will work hard for you because they love the work, the attention, the play, the cookies... they LOVE the time spent with you. If you say jump they jump....

The down side is, if they are dysplastic..one day the pain, that they have likely been feeling for many months, will prevent them from jumping all together....I made this terrible mistake and it haunts me still. My girl loves to work and she loved the ring..until one weekend when she refused both jumps and it smacked me in the face.

If you knew she only had 1000 pain-free jumps left in her body...where would you want her to spend them? In the Obed ring or over logs and streams in the woods? It is so hard because you just don't know that dogs particular magic number.

A little piece of my heart breaks when I watch Liberty run around a log in the woods or wade through a stream that she would have gazelled over in the past...


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

My King was mildly dysplastic in one hip. He was an incredible obedience dog and loved it intensely - he NQ'd once in 40 or 50 shows and that was in Utility A after running into the article pile so fast he knocked them all together and brought 2 back...

King's jump height was 30 inches, so 95% of the time I jumped him at 24 inches to help extend his jumping life - this is now the height he would jump in competition  Rally has lower jump heights (16 inches maximum) and these are not from a stationary start so Rally might also be an option?

That being said, I retired him at 7 before he started showing signs of arthritis or trouble jumping and kept him well exercised throughout his lfe. He lived to be 14 1//2 and then died due to liver cancer and in his later years did have manageable arthritis, but I am not sure if the dysplasia or just old age contributed more. Supplement and NSAIDs kept him comfortable and active until the day before he wasn't allowed to wake up from exploratory surgery.

Just be careful to keep an eye out for stiffness, popping etc. The high drive dogs need an outlet for their energy or everyone suffers!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

My sweet Laney(that I spoke of earlier in this thread) never limped a day in her life from her mild unilateral hip dysplasia. She was OFA FAIR at 24 months, then I re xrayed her at 44 months, not because she was limping, but I could feel a skip when heeling. The skip went away and I had her on Cosequin DS for the rest of her life(and fish oil). She got her CDX and UD and RA all post diagnosis of hip dysplasia. She was working on her RE(had just gotten 2 legs) and was entered for her last leg when she died due to a splenic hemangiosarcoma at 3 months shy of 12 years. She was a working machine and never tired from all of the endless training we did for her UD. She was also about 20 1/2 inches and 52 lbs. So she was a 22/44 inch jumping dog. My first golden with the laterally luxating patella repair achieved her CDX post repair and also never limped a day in her life when she died at age 12 1/2 years. She was a big girl, 23 1/2 inches and 62 lbs. That was Sally and she had to jump 30/60 inches in those days. At the National, when I showed her in Veterans Open in 1999, they lowered the jumps to 20 inches or something like that. She could still jump easily at 10 years. 
Laney's 1/2 brother whom I knew well(I would take him and his owner to out of state shows) had one hip that was moderately dysplastic. He got a CDX and also never limped a day in his life on that hip. 

I agree our dogs will do anything to keep up and please us... but you have to look at the dog(size, build,etc) and decide if the dog can take it. My Laney had more issues on the front with repetitive ball chasing and retrieving than she ever did training for obedience and dabbling in agility which she loved. I decided not to pursue agility with her as I felt she was too " go for broke" and would probably hurt herself doing that. One of my guys got his CD and RN, but I never went further because I felt he was too short coupled and "long in the hocks" to jump well. His mom and actually the rest of the family have more athletic builds.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Have you had the dog evaluated by a boarded ortho vet? I'd do that. It may be that it's mild enough that the vet feels low jumping (assuming the dog is kept at a good weight, well conditioned, etc.) would be okay. I have a client with a mild HD dog and the ortho vet said he honestly didn't see a problem with her jumping 16". They are thrilled to be doing agility together - something she initially thought they wouldn't be able to do.

I'd ask the ortho what he feels is safe. Either way, you can definitely do Novice obedience and I'd say even all levels of Rally w/o a problem. Even though upper level Rally does include a jump, it's not something you have to log thousands of reps in for training, and the jump height is lower anyway. Depending of the ortho's findings, you might be able to do preferred agility and jump at 16" rather than 20". 

If it were me, I'd want more than just x-ray results to rule my dog's sports future.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Depending of the ortho's findings, you might be able to do preferred agility and jump at 16" rather than 20".


This is off topic, but it's too bad that regular obedience does not allow some dogs to jump preferred. 

It's not just because of dogs with dysplasia. I've seen some older dogs just barely getting over the high jump, and it's a shame because they are perfect in every other way.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Megora said:


> This is off topic, but it's too bad that regular obedience does not allow some dogs to jump preferred.


It would definitely provide more options.

APDT rally and St Huberts Obedience both allow lower jump heights, even MUCH lower for some specific dog health problems.... options to consider for those who have it available in their part of the country.


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## GoldenGoldenGolden (Apr 26, 2009)

wow! Thank you to everyone. We will definately take it one day at a time and I will talk to my vet about his limitations. I am a little relieved with your responses. Training him is an outlet for me as much as it is for my dog. It is stress relief (if that makes sense). Jax is high energy so I will have to train him to tone things down while heeling etc. - This is new for me because I had a Golden who looked so very impressive enthusiastically jumping into heel position after his recall. Jax is a little like that. It has been hard taking all of this in as this is the first dog I have had with a hip issue. Thank you to all.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

GoldenGoldenGolden said:


> wow! Thank you to everyone. We will definately take it one day at a time and I will talk to my vet about his limitations. I am a little relieved with your responses. Training him is an outlet for me as much as it is for my dog. It is stress relief (if that makes sense). Jax is high energy so I will have to train him to tone things down while heeling etc. - This is new for me because I had a Golden who looked so very impressive enthusiastically jumping into heel position after his recall. Jax is a little like that. It has been hard taking all of this in as this is the first dog I have had with a hip issue. Thank you to all.


I forgot to ask... Is it both hips or just one? 

One thing our vet commented on when I was asking if it was something I did or what I should have done differently... 

Her opinion was that dogs are born with hip dysplasia and the only difference that care makes is how bad the damage will be or how soon the dog will exhibit arthritis, if at all. And even then that is no guarantee. 

Her feeling was that there are a lot of undiagnosed dogs with hip dysplasia out there who live normal and healthy long lives. And then by the time they are old, there's no telling whether the arthritis because of hip dysplasia or if it was due to normal aging. <- Most dog owners are not preemptive and xraying hips if there are no clinical signs.

I did ask if by jumping him or hiking with him (weather permitting, I'm planning to go on uber long hikes with him this summer like we did last summer) if I could cause something horrible like the hip popping all the way out or something. <- she said that those types of dysplasia are rare and generally he would have to really injure himself to dislocate his hip. 

I asked if jumping and hiking would cause damage to the bones - like bone spurs and major league remodeling, and she said yes. But repeated that was why she wanted me to keep him thin and build up his muscles in the area and keep him strong and lean. And put him on supplements. 

And she wrote up a list of supplements to put him on and amounts he needed for his size. 

My guy has bilateral mild hip dysplasia, but it hasn't caused any problems as far as him jumping. Right now I only practice 20" jumps with him to get him prepped for rally jumps. I've thrown in a 24" now and then and he clears it with space to spare. <- For that matter, he is the same dog who jumped out the window of a moving car last summer and jumped up all four feet on top of our kitchen table (a bit higher than 24") from the floor last summer, and he easily outruns our fleet-footed collie and beats everyone up and down the stairs. And of course he head bumps me every time he springs into heel position (left finish). And of course when I'm not forcing him to walk slow because of my bad left knee, he has a very nice easy moving gait. 

The most important advice I got from the vet is to be careful and watch for very subtle signs that he may not be superdog. Because not all dogs are smart about self-limiting. :doh:


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I have a dog with bilateral HD, severe right, moderate left. She had a THR on her right side. For her I let her tell me what she was willing to do. Now she has 'other' issues to as a result of having been born with HD. She was symptomatic at 8 weeks we just did not know it. Any way she has bad elbows and spondylosis from compensating all her life too (she is only 4)

Ok my point. Teddi LOVED agility until we moved her to the competition class. She has 2 legs in UKC AGI, and one leg in AKC jumpers. However the pressure of the class running like a trial (only dog in the ring) made her shut down. She won't jump anymore. Did it hurt her? I don't know, I don't make her jump anymore but she SAILS over my 27" labrador in the back yard. Her condition is much worse than your dog. 

If you manage the weight, and practice moderation on aspects like the jumping, I say go for it. I would LOVE to do obedience with Teddi but there is no way in heck I would get her over a 24" panel which would be her required height. I don't think she would bat an eye at the broad jump. I do plan to get a CD on her. She has her RN. However watch and listen to your dog. Some dogs are tough, some are wussie. Teddi is tough when it comes to pain, but wussie when it comes to pressure. Your dog will talk to you. I think you can manage and have a good obedience career, especially with mild dysplasia. I know two dogs one who had a bilateral triple pelvic osteotomy, and one who had a THR that compete at the highest levels of agility. 

There is life with HD, you just have to manage.


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## GoldenGoldenGolden (Apr 26, 2009)

My dog has unilateral - left side. I have questioned his movement though since he was about 4 months old. He paced a lot. It really stood out because I have a Golden who will be 14 next month (he was rated OFA - Good) who just floats when he walks just to go potty outside. He is really beautiful. Does anyone think it is strange that he was pacing with only mild HD? or do you think it might be just him being lazy on top of it?


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Pacing is a "lazy' movement, yes HD dogs will do it but I think it is more lazy than anything else. Teddi has a hip sway that could put Marilyn Monroe so shame (LOL) but only if I let her be slow. If I make her kick it up to a normal pace, she trots out just beautifully. My lab Belle would pace a lot too. She is a BIG dog and has LONG legs. When we would walk her 'slow' was a pace. She has no sign of dysplasia. I think you can train the pace out of them. 

Mild unilateral, you should be able to manage quite easily, and not have too many restrictions. However every dog is different. Some are tough (Teddi is tough as nails when it comes to pain) some are wimps. You will just have to read your dog. 

Now that being said, Gabby my golden pup is a GORGEOUS mover. I know what you mean about floating across the ground, her movement is so effortless. 

We were out at a park with Teddi and Belle this weekend, Teddi could not get enough of running. She had a great time. It is a wonderful thing to watch.


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## GoldenGoldenGolden (Apr 26, 2009)

I did have to train Jax to trot and when he does trot he looks rather nice. He would not trot naturally at first. He does have a big hip sway when he walks. Does your dog with the hip sway have HD? Also as fast and energetic as he is, after a walk (about a mile or two) when we go back to the car he only puts two feet up on the car. I have to lift his hind end up to get him into the crate. Now, I did train him to do this on the grooming table so maybe this is why he does it but when we are leaving he leaps right into the car.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Dogs also can sway from poor core body strength. My dog with "excellent" hips was swaying when in pain/after weeks and weeks of minimal activity due to lameness (...ultimately a pulled psoa muscle). As we did the recommended exercises and increased activity, the swaying has decreased. For some dogs, pacing may be due to shape (length, or front/rear angulation being different).


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

GoldenGoldenGolden said:


> I did have to train Jax to trot and when he does trot he looks rather nice. He would not trot naturally at first. He does have a big hip sway when he walks. Does your dog with the hip sway have HD? Also as fast and energetic as he is, after a walk (about a mile or two) when we go back to the car he only puts two feet up on the car. I have to lift his hind end up to get him into the crate. Now, I did train him to do this on the grooming table so maybe this is why he does it but when we are leaving he leaps right into the car.


Yes Teddi does have a hip sway, and I also agree with Red Dogs comment. It can be a sign of "HD" but by itself means nothing. I always laugh and say Teddi's hip sway would have put Marilyn Monroe out of business. Teddi is ALSO long in the back which also does not help. She has a BEAUTIFUL trot when I ask her for one. 

Teddi will not jump in a car, never has. I suspect when she was a baby it hurt her to try, and we didn't know. So she remembers to this day. She will sometimes pop her front end up, and I lift her back end. I don't make her. She is more comfortable doing it that way so be it.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Teddi will not jump in a car, never has. I suspect when she was a baby it hurt her to try, and we didn't know. So she remembers to this day. She will sometimes pop her front end up, and I lift her back end. I don't make her. She is more comfortable doing it that way so be it.


It could also be a routine or trained behavior for her if you always helped her into the car when she was a puppy and then she went through her joint issues when you had to help her.... 

Jacks was trained to use a suitcase step to climb up onto my bed. This was from back when he was a puppy and I literally taught him how to hop up on the suitcase and up on my bed and back down again so he wouldn't try jumping from the mattress to the floor or gosh forbid from the pillows/headboard area down to the floor. 

To this day he still uses that step, even while easily jumping up on the couch which is higher off the floor than my bed. He's just used to stepping up on the suitcase and then up to the bed.

I consider it training for when he's old.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Teddi would run away SCARED from the car as a pup. She really worries when we ask her to jump. She 'has' jumped in on her own volition a couple of times and the funny thing, she jumps into my Explorer more regularly than hubby's Focus. Now I encourage her to put her front feet up by herself. 

She has difficulty jumping on our bed too, the couch she manages. Lately she has "stiffness" at the end of the day, we are going to increase her MSM and see if that makes her more comfortable. 

Teddi has SO many issues, I really don't care if she doesn't jump in the car, between her hips, her back and her elbows, no she probably should not be.


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