# Bailey in a Fight



## 1wdmcdonn1 (Jul 18, 2014)

I take my 18 month old, male, neutered GR Bailey to a play group of 12-15 dogs on Saturdays & Sundays. Most of the dogs have been together for at least a year and generally play well together. Over the past two years, there have only been several fights with no injuries. Bailey plays hard and can be pushy and aggressive, but not vicious. Today, Bailey seemed more hyper than usual and got into a fight with a mild mannered 8 year old male mixed GR. The result was a torn ear. As I reflected on how to deal with this, rather than outright pull him from the group, I thought I should first exercise him well before we go there and second, supervise him more closely when there to see how that goes. Also, are these events “play at your own risk”, or should I offer to pay for the owner’s vet expenses. Any thoughts, or advice on this situation? Thanks much.


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## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

A bunch of red flags in your OP.
12-15 dogs is way to many in an unsupervised group. 
"Last 2 years there's been several fights with no injuries." Odds are injuries will occur.
"Bailey plays hard and can be pushy and aggressive but not vicious." Very fine line your walking with Bailey.
I would hope you offer to pay for the torn ear and then make good on your offer.
I don't think it's safe for you, Bailey and the other dogs to continue with these play groups. Reflect all you want but exercise alone won't stop your dog's behavior with this group.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

I agree w/ Tennyson. Bailey has learned it's ok to play hard, be pushy & aggressive--if you do continue w/ group play--you need to be in close proximity ready to step in & redirect him before his behavior escalates to the level you described. Great opportunity to practice recalls. If redirection doesn't work, take him out of the game until he settles, if he can't settle, then play ends.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Bailey*

I agree with all that both Tennyson and Sheetsm said.
I would definitely offer to pay for the vet bills.
So sorry that this happened.


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## Harleysmum (Aug 19, 2014)

I don't want to pile on here but I would not want to be part of any group where there was a "pushy and aggressive" dog.


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## 1wdmcdonn1 (Jul 18, 2014)

Thanks to you both. Apropos of SheetsSM's comment, I have been working on recalls when there are big distractions and recently introduced an e-collar which is working well. I have not yet taken it to play group which now seems warranted. I want to give him one more chance. Re: "piling it on", some of the dogs are young, full of oaks and testosterone so there are some altercations which the owners are attentive to...


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## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

1wdmcdonn1 said:


> Thanks to you both. Apropos of SheetsSM's comment, I have been working on recalls when there are big distractions and recently introduced an e-collar which is working well. I have not yet taken it to play group which now seems warranted. I want to give him one more chance. Re: "piling it on", some of the dogs are young, full of oaks and testosterone so there are some altercations which the owners are attentive to...


You're asking for more trouble with that e-collar in a group of dogs.


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## 1wdmcdonn1 (Jul 18, 2014)

Please explain


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## thorbreafortuna (Jun 9, 2013)

I agree with Tennyson that an e collar here would be a bad idea. Bailey may identify the stimulus of the e collar with the proximity of the other dogs and before you know it he may start developing real fear aggression issues. It would be great if the group could be smaller. Even when I was taking Thor to the public dog park I would only go in if there were fewer than 10 dogs including him. 
What I would do is definitely offer to pay for the vet bill, also my instinct would be to put a little time between the incident and a return to the group, if nothing else to try to erase a little bit of the bad memories for everyone involved, including myself. then if I do return to the play group I would stay very close to him, watch him really closely, and follow the advice given by SheetsSM.
Actually, for what it's worth, I probably would not return any time soon, but maybe that's just me because I get very tense in these situations. Thor started guarding a tennis ball at the park one day, scaring off a younger dog that was insisting on getting it with an ugly snarl. I was so shaken up (no actual fight, no injury, could be explained, but he had never shown any such behavior before so it really got to me) that I leashed him right up, left the park immediately. It has been over 8 months and we have not been back. He also has not shown this behavior again in any other context and I am quite happy about that. Why mess with things.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

I would be concerned with the e-collar that he'd associate the nic with whatever dog you were looking to get him away from & thus be the catalyst for a fight. I haven't used e-collars, think it would be a good idea to pulse several of the field folks on their thoughts regarding the use of the collar for this particular situation.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

If you're looking for an alternative for Saturday, PVGRC is having a field training day 9 Apr, Bailey will be sure to get a work out of both his body & brain. One dog per group runs at a time, so a controlled environment for some off leash work with the benefit of having doggie crack available aka birds.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

My thoughts for what they are worth.

> You did drive the injured dog and owner to an emergency vet and pay, correct?
> My dogs would not be allowed to be in a group environment with your dog -- period. 
> An eCollar in a group setting on a dog who is 'pushy and aggressive' is truly a bad bad idea.
> And no, group environments have to be closely supervised and monitored. they are not 'play at your own risk'.

Your dog should not be given another chance to hurt another dog.

Now this may all have been a learning experience for you, but please learn from it.


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## 1wdmcdonn1 (Jul 18, 2014)

In my experience so far and from what I've read, the collar snaps him out of his mindset and focuses his attention on me, but the timing is critical which is why I've moved very slowly with its use.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Listen to what everyone is telling you. It's a bad idea all the way around.


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## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

1wdmcdonn1 said:


> In my experience so far and from what I've read, the collar snaps him out of his mindset and focuses his attention on me, but the timing is critical which is why I've moved very slowly with its use.


I don't think your grasping the seriousness of what you and Bailey did today. First of all those "Play at your Own Risk" signs are there to protect the municipality where the park is located. Not meant for you or other dog owners. You're on your own when you choose to use their facility.
What's to say that the owner of the dog Bailey attacked hasn't contacted Animal Control or your local police? That could lead to Bailey being quarantined. That could lead to a civil lawsuit. Then instead of just paying the vet bill initially you'll get hammered with all kinds of costs. They add up quickly. You'll need an attorney and we all know how cheap they work for.
Bailey will be considered an aggressive dog for the rest of his life. You really want that for you and your pup?
Don't reflect. Think long and hard what happened and what could happen.
This thread should have been in the Behavior section not the training section.
An E-collar won't fix any of Bailey's problems.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Max and I are regulars at our local dog park. Aggressive dogs are not welcome. You should listen to what everyone else has suggested. Do not return to the play group and pay the vet expenses of the dog Bailey injured.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

I agree with what everyone else has said. 

On a side note e-collars are a great tool when used appropriately. This situation is not one of those. Nicking a dog in a heightened state in close proximity to the stimulus (other dogs) is too dangerous. You found out that in a heightened state he is willing and capable of inflicting damage on another dog. A nick at the time he is already in a hieghtened state would very likely increase this state. 

I also, would not expose my dog to any dog that has engaged in the behavior you described but then again, I don't engage in any play group or dog park because there is the possibility of this type of event happening.

You also open yourself to more risk if he does this again as you have knowledge and so does the group that he has done this before.


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## 1wdmcdonn1 (Jul 18, 2014)

Points will taken. Thanks to all


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## 1wdmcdonn1 (Jul 18, 2014)

Allow me to reframe this issue and hopefully get some positive feedback and constructive suggestions from you experienced folks. This is not a "dog park" but rather a relatively fixed small group of people in a small community who have been bringing their dogs together on Saturdays and Sundays for 1/2 to 3/4 of an hour for several years. Bailey started as a 25 pound puppy and is now a 75 pound "teenager" that has been participating for 1 1/2 years with only a few "flare-ups" among the dogs during that time. During that time, he has completed beginner and intermediate obedience training at PetSmart and did well. I am attempting to contact his trainer who is an outstanding dog trainer for advice.

His normal daily routine is a 1/2 mile walk in the morning; two 1/4 mile walks in the afternoon and at least out 3 other times out for potty. 

No one saw how this fight started, but I will concede fault as he was overly charged up that day and the other dog in the fight was an 8 year old seemingly mild-mannered golden/chesapeake bay (I think) mix. Everyone I have spoken to here has been supportive and offered suggestions as to how to handle the situation (discussed below). 

During this past week, I have been pondering how to address this behavior with him starting at home where I have curtailed the indoor hard play the two of us engage in when he is full of energy. Meanwhile, I have only used the e-collar outside to insure that he safely and routinely comes to me in the field when I recall him since he has been prone to bolting across the road in my subdivision when distracted. It has worked like a charm.

Options I have contemplated are to:
1. Discontinue his participation in the group
2. Allow him to participate on a leash
3. Use a muzzle
4. Give him the second chance he deserves by taking him for a long walk and allow him to retrieve balls before going to the group. Then, allow him to participate in the group with the closest possible supervision and correction when needed.

My sense is that discontinuing him will not be instructive and that leash or muzzle use will frustrate him which could lead to more aggressive behavior and not help him learn.


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## Rundlemtn (Jan 16, 2015)

1wdmcdonn1 said:


> Options I have contemplated are to:
> 1. Discontinue his participation in the group
> 2. Allow him to participate on a leash
> 3. Use a muzzle
> ...


1. Yes, definitely. He needs to learn to interact with dogs in a more controlled environment. 
2. This will only be aggravating, and would more likely lead to an aggressive interaction. 
3. This would be like throwing you in a lion pit with nothing to defend yourself. 
4. Young dogs have a ton of energy and are very easily excited. I doubt you would be able to do enough to curtail his energy and excitement upon meeting the pack.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

In response to all of your questions I am not going to respond. There are way too many others on GRF with far more expertise than I possess who can offer suggestions. I would, however, like to offer my own experience when my dog was attacked by another dog. First of all Gracie is a flat coat retriever cross. She is a very gentle dog and her "job" is as a therapy dog who visits nursing home residents. I live in a suburb with fairly large lots and most of my neighbors have dogs. The neighbors across the street host frequent "play groups" for their dog and other dogs who are from this neighborhood. Their yard is surrounded by an invisible fence for their dog, a 6 year old male lab. I have never attended the "play groups". Last summer I was out working in my yard and Gracie was napping on my front steps. Suddenly a fight broke out across the street. Two dogs bolted from the area. One of them was the yellow lab who ran thru the invisible fence. He headed straight for Gracie and attacked her. I was able to pull him off of her without too much injury to myself (a few scrapes and bruises but no puncture wounds to me). Gracie was less fortunate. She received a bite above her eye which required stitches. It could have been much worse had the bite been 2 inches lower. My first reaction was concern for my dog and, later, for the stupid actions of a neighbor who was allowing basically a doggy free for all in her yard while she and the other dog parents sat around talking smart and ignoring their dogs. I say that because not one of them responded when the fight broke out and the 2 dogs bolted from the yard. I talked to the neighbor and requested she pay the vet bill for the injury caused by her dog. Her response was to tell me I shouldn't have had MY dog in the front yard of my house while her dog and his "friends were playing" (her words, not mine). Obviously I did not get reimbursed for the vet bills. I did not contact the police because I have to live here and really did not want bad blood with the neighbors. I did, however, stop allowing my dogs in my front yard and I stopped walking them past the house across the street when the dog was outside. Shortly before Christmas another neighbor was walking her 12 year old golden and her 2 small children around the block. The dog across the street was out. He bolted from the yard and attacked the golden retriever. While my friend was attempting to pull him off of her golden the lab that lives across the street from me turned quickly and bit her 6 year old daughter. Since this happened the dog across the street has been declared a dangerous dog. Had I reported the attack on my dog perhaps the second attack would not have happened. My point is that when a dog injures another dog or a person you cannot put that dog in the same situation and expect different results unless there has been some very serious re-training which has gone on in the interim. Please do listen to the advice given by the people who have responded to your post. They really do know what they are talking about. While it would be far easier to ignore the advice and ignore the incident I am afraid doing so could result in an incident similar to the one with the dog across the street from me. I, for one, would hate to see that happen.


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## BriGuy (Aug 31, 2010)

I would not bring him back to the group ever. I don't think that dogs necessarily need to play with other dogs, especially in large groups. 

What are you trying to get out of the play group? If it is to exercise him, then I'd just increase the morning and afternoon walks. If you have some trails to hike on, that would be ideal.


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## Harleysmum (Aug 19, 2014)

G-bear said:


> In response to all of your questions I am not going to respond. There are way too many others on GRF with far more expertise than I possess who can offer suggestions. I would, however, like to offer my own experience when my dog was attacked by another dog. First of all Gracie is a flat coat retriever cross. She is a very gentle dog and her "job" is as a therapy dog who visits nursing home residents. I live in a suburb with fairly large lots and most of my neighbors have dogs. The neighbors across the street host frequent "play groups" for their dog and other dogs who are from this neighborhood. Their yard is surrounded by an invisible fence for their dog, a 6 year old male lab. I have never attended the "play groups". Last summer I was out working in my yard and Gracie was napping on my front steps. Suddenly a fight broke out across the street. Two dogs bolted from the area. One of them was the yellow lab who ran thru the invisible fence. He headed straight for Gracie and attacked her. I was able to pull him off of her without too much injury to myself (a few scrapes and bruises but no puncture wounds to me). Gracie was less fortunate. She received a bite above her eye which required stitches. It could have been much worse had the bite been 2 inches lower. My first reaction was concern for my dog and, later, for the stupid actions of a neighbor who was allowing basically a doggy free for all in her yard while she and the other dog parents sat around talking smart and ignoring their dogs. I say that because not one of them responded when the fight broke out and the 2 dogs bolted from the yard. I talked to the neighbor and requested she pay the vet bill for the injury caused by her dog. Her response was to tell me I shouldn't have had MY dog in the front yard of my house while her dog and his "friends were playing" (her words, not mine). Obviously I did not get reimbursed for the vet bills. I did not contact the police because I have to live here and really did not want bad blood with the neighbors. I did, however, stop allowing my dogs in my front yard and I stopped walking them past the house across the street when the dog was outside. Shortly before Christmas another neighbor was walking her 12 year old golden and her 2 small children around the block. The dog across the street was out. He bolted from the yard and attacked the golden retriever. While my friend was attempting to pull him off of her golden the lab that lives across the street from me turned quickly and bit her 6 year old daughter. Since this happened the dog across the street has been declared a dangerous dog. Had I reported the attack on my dog perhaps the second attack would not have happened. My point is that when a dog injures another dog or a person you cannot put that dog in the same situation and expect different results unless there has been some very serious re-training which has gone on in the interim. Please do listen to the advice given by the people who have responded to your post. They really do know what they are talking about. While it would be far easier to ignore the advice and ignore the incident I am afraid doing so could result in an incident similar to the one with the dog across the street from me. I, for one, would hate to see that happen.


 GBear, thank you for posting this story in this thread. It is a sobering reminder that the advice that has been given to the OP is not an over reaction.


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## DJdogman (Apr 23, 2013)

Hi there - I know this feeling - you want your dog to play with other dogs as you see how much fun they have and it really tires them out. I've been there. One of my dogs is such a friendly dog who loves playing with other dogs, daycare and the dog field were his favourite places. 

When we got our second boy however, he was very different. I could no longer go to daycare or the dog field and I was very upset over this. It took me a few weeks and lots of training to realise that I don't NEED to have them playing with other dogs, they can have just as much exercise and stimulation in the house and on their walks, or in an enclosed field only when there's no one else there. They are healthy, happy boys, and there's no risk of anyone being harmed. Ultimately, your dog is not going to lose out on anything by not going to the play group, and its safer for all that he doesn't go. Its probably only a matter of time before your boy is uninvited to the group anyway, so you may as well make the first move. Your boy will not miss anything I promise


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

You may want to consider that the recent introduction of the e-collar may have been a contributing factor to your dog's aggressive response to the other dog, coupled with the environment of being in a group of dogs with a history of random altercations. Stress in dogs accumulates, particularly if they have not had the opportunity (2 to 3 days) to de-stress after an 'event' that has increased their anxiety levels, and for their bodies to return to a physiologically normal state, increasing the likelihood that the dog will escalate sooner and with more intensity that he had in prior, similar, situations. 
Something you may also want to consider is whether your dog is coping as well with the group play situation as you think he is. It is often the dogs that are anxious or stressed, not coping well, and lacking in confidence, that play rough, play hard, tend to 'bully', and are unable (or due to anxiety levels ) to maintain self-control, and calm themselves and adapt their play style to the dogs they are playing with.

I will reiterate here what others have said, using an e-collar is not advisable nor appropriate in working with a dog who has shown aggression towards other dogs, and runs the risk of creating a dog who is fearful of other dogs caused by association of the punishment with the other dogs. Absolutely punishment will interrupt and suppress behavior, but it does not resolve the reason for the unwanted behavior in the first place.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

1wdmcdonn1 said:


> During this past week, I have been pondering how to address this behavior with him starting at home where I have curtailed the indoor hard play the two of us engage in when he is full of energy. Meanwhile, I have only used the e-collar outside to insure that he safely and routinely comes to me in the field when I recall him since he has been prone to bolting across the road in my subdivision when distracted. It has worked like a charm.
> 
> Options I have contemplated are to:
> 1. Discontinue his participation in the group
> ...


Concerning the leash: this is not a good idea and is likely to make him worse, not better. Many dogs are more insecure and aggressive towards other dogs on-leash than off-leash. Yours has already shown aggression off leash may well be worse on-leash.

Concerning the muzzle: again, not a good idea. Aggression sometimes stems from insecurity, and if your dog is insecure, the muzzle will make him much worse because he can no longer defend himself. In your shoes I would not do this.

Concerning the e-collar: I would not ever use this tool in a group setting.

Concerning the giving of another chance: it's important to remember that your dog isn't the only one involved here. He's already injured another dog. Exercise isn't going to make the problem go away. By including him in the group again, you're putting other dogs at risk of injury. I repeat: this isn't a problem that's going to disappear - it's more likely to get worse.

My last golden was once attacked gratuitously at an agility trial when she was about three years old. She was on leash and under control; the other dog (much larger than mine) escaped his handler and came to attack her. It was a nasty, vicious fight, and while my dog wasn't physically injured, I was bitten hard while attempting to separate them, and was very shaken afterwards. To her credit, the owner of the other dog never brought him to another agility trial and now exercises him only in her back yard. As for my dog, she became reactive after this incident and needed careful handling for the rest of her life when with other dogs. I never let her play off-leash with any dog we didn't own ourselves after this happened - she was too anxious. Dog-on-dog aggression has many consequences for the dog that is attacked; physical injury is only one of them. It just isn't fair to run this risk for other people.

If I were in your shoes, I'd contact the owner of the dog that was injured, offer to pay for her vet costs, apologize and tell her that I won't be bringing my dog to the group again.

It's a myth that dogs like to play in large groups. From my personal observation, it seems that many are stressed in this type of context, and the chances of things going wrong are high. It takes only a second or two for things to escalate and a fight to start. You can't possibly control this, even if you're more attentive. 

My dogs are allowed to play with one another, and occasionally with another dog I know well (only one at once). If you feel your dog must play with others, I strongly recommend that you find one other dog with whom he gets on, and try some one-on-one play in a neutral setting. Before you do this, to be fair, you should tell the owner of the other dog that yours has already shown aggression in play situations. 

If he were my dog, I would never again put him in a large group to play. It's not fair to him, and it's certainly not fair to the other dogs. As other posters have said, you're risking a lot, and not just for yourself and your dog. There's so much other stuff you can do with him instead: train him for a sport (obedience, agility, field, frisbee, dock diving ...), take him for long walks on leash, find a place where he can swim, play interactive games such as fetch or tug, go jogging with him, train him to become a therapy dog, etc.

Best of luck with this. It's not easy, but IMHO, as someone who's already been on the receiving end of an attack, it's important to do the right thing.


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## macdougallph1 (Oct 13, 2013)

I also used to allow my pup to play with a small group of dogs at outer training facility. He was attacked once by this one dog after playing. The other dog was given a second chance unbeknownst to be and the next time he saw my dog he immediately attacked him again with no warning. He had my pup pinned on his back with his mouth around his throat and the owner of the facility and dog trainer had a very difficult time getting him off of my pup. It was a messy situation and thankfully my pup hasn't shown any issues from it. I also agree (and feel bad as its got to be hard to accept) you should absolutely not bring your dog back to that play group. If the dogs are playing and over their threshold you can guarantee it will happen again. It's smart to get some help with this matter now from a trainer. Good luck.


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## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

1wdmcdonn1 said:


> Allow me to reframe this issue and hopefully get some positive feedback and constructive suggestions from you experienced folks. This is not a "dog park" but rather a relatively fixed small group of people in a small community who have been bringing their dogs together on Saturdays and Sundays for 1/2 to 3/4 of an hour for several years. Bailey started as a 25 pound puppy and is now a 75 pound "teenager" that has been participating for 1 1/2 years with only a few "flare-ups" among the dogs during that time. During that time, he has completed beginner and intermediate obedience training at PetSmart and did well. I am attempting to contact his trainer who is an outstanding dog trainer for advice.
> 
> His normal daily routine is a 1/2 mile walk in the morning; two 1/4 mile walks in the afternoon and at least out 3 other times out for potty.
> 
> ...


I would seriously stop taking Bailey to be with this group. I hope you got in touch with the injured dog's owner and do what's right.
I don't understand why some dog owners feel they have to socialize their pup with a group of dogs in an unstructured setting. It's like having that gang-banger mentality at worse. No need for it.
My boy plays with the 4 females next door and sometimes that little PITA pom across the street. Only one at a time though. I know all these dogs very well but the owners and I agree only one at a time. None of the dogs need 5 or 6 pals to play at one time. It's just not safe for any of the dogs. 
Really do hope you went and sought out the injured dog's owner. That should be your priority.


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## 1wdmcdonn1 (Jul 18, 2014)

I understand the consensus viewpoint and agree with it. And yes, I long ago spoke to the injured dog's owner and reimbursed him for the expense.


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## sirbailey (Feb 6, 2016)

YIKES!

I sure would offer to pay for that ear wound, and I wouldn't never take my dog to that play group again ... or any play group where fights were ' allowed' for that matter. I am a newer member with a new pup, but a seasoned dog owner. If I had to use a muzzle on my dog, I would want to RE train and RE socialize him, and fast!

I would strongly urge you to forget the e collar and find a great trainer ( no matter how well trained your dog is!) and explain your dog has gotten aggressive, and see if you can bring the dog to well supervised classes to socialize. I have to say it has been my experience that places like Petsmart do not usually employ the ' best' trainers.

When I had my Bailey, we went to training all the time ( it was kind of our hobby for years !) He met all different kinds of dogs in a safe and disciplined setting. Furthermore, we took our border collie Pete ( still have him/ he is 11 now) as he had reactivity issues when we adopted him, and it was great for him.
The key is to find a very good trainer.

I hope you will consider all of this and have great success and fun with it as we did !
Good Luck to you.


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## Elsa Cholla's Mom (Feb 8, 2016)

I am sorry to hear you and your dog had this experience. I would be horrified if my dog ever did that to another dog. I think I would, and this is just my opinion, (I don't even know what an e-collar or 'nicking' is all about. If it is a shock collar, I would not use one.) 
I would take the age of Bailey into consideration, 18 months? Not fully mature, but old enough to think he can decide his limits. So just like a teenage son who has done wrong; I would limit his time with friends, and only the right friends, until he has some more time to mature, and had won back my trust. I certainly wouldn't let him go to the same party the next weekend! So my answer is not an all or nothing, but I would be very careful to make sure my dog, (or my child), did not have another chance to do someone harm until I felt there was some improvement in attitude.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Play groups are not always appropriate for dogs, or even dogs at every age and stage. The main thing is they all have a "threshold" for stimuli under which they function well and make good decisions, but when over threshold that is when impulse control breaks down. The reason I don't let my golden play in dog parks or play groups is bc I want to do my best to keep them out of situations in which other dogs go over threshold. When dogs to bite/fight, they actually rehearse that behavior and are more likely to report to it again. It may be you could let hm cool off and grow up, and try it again at a different age. Not all dogs even enjoy play groups. Yes, you should offer to pay the vet bill for the other owner. No you should never use an e collar on a dog who is near or over threshold as that puts in more stimulation ( "stim" and can lead to a very aggressive moment.


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## 1wdmcdonn1 (Jul 18, 2014)

Post Script: It seems that my choice to describe Bailey as "aggressive" has unfortunately set the wrong tone for this discussion. I took him to my trusted trainer who has known him from a puppy. She observed him interact with other dogs and believes that he is not aggressive, but does get very excited and plays hard and rough as many grs, especially males, can do. She recommends much more exercise than I have been giving him and further training with other dogs in a controlled class environment to improve impulse control. I have been taking him to the river to swim to retrieve balls and he loves it. It's also clear to me that I also need to have him more frequently (on a leash) around groups of people where he can learn to control his typical need to be everybody's friend and seek attention. You're all quite right. It's time to move on from this play group. I do appreciate your excellent advice.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Bailey*



1wdmcdonn1 said:


> Post Script: It seems that my choice to describe Bailey as "aggressive" has unfortunately set the wrong tone for this discussion. I took him to my trusted trainer who has known him from a puppy. She observed him interact with other dogs and believes that he is not aggressive, but does get very excited and plays hard and rough as many grs, especially males, can do. She recommends much more exercise than I have been giving him and further training with other dogs in a controlled class environment to improve impulse control. I have been taking him to the river to swim to retrieve balls and he loves it. It's also clear to me that I also need to have him more frequently (on a leash) around groups of people where he can learn to control his typical need to be everybody's friend and seek attention. You're all quite right. It's time to move on from this play group. I do appreciate your excellent advice.


I think your trainer has given you excellent advice. Hope you and Bailey have fun together.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

1wdmcdonn1 said:


> Post Script: It seems that my choice to describe Bailey as "aggressive" has unfortunately set the wrong tone for this discussion. I took him to my trusted trainer who has known him from a puppy. She observed him interact with other dogs and believes that he is not aggressive, but does get very excited and plays hard and rough as many grs, especially males, can do. She recommends much more exercise than I have been giving him and further training with other dogs in a controlled class environment to improve impulse control. I have been taking him to the river to swim to retrieve balls and he loves it. It's also clear to me that I also need to have him more frequently (on a leash) around groups of people where he can learn to control his typical need to be everybody's friend and seek attention. You're all quite right. It's time to move on from this play group. I do appreciate your excellent advice.


This sounds like a very sound plan. Well done.


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## sirbailey (Feb 6, 2016)

*Golden retrievers overexcited*



1wdmcdonn1 said:


> Post Script: It seems that my choice to describe Bailey as "aggressive" has unfortunately set the wrong tone for this discussion. I took him to my trusted trainer who has known him from a puppy. She observed him interact with other dogs and believes that he is not aggressive, but does get very excited and plays hard and rough as many grs, especially males, can do. ..."
> 
> Well, I will say that the ' typical' GR can get extremely overexcited. It did sound as though the play group might end up bringing out some aggression in Bailey. so I think you have made a wise choice to leave it.:wavey:
> Good Luck!


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