# Who has shown in obedience?



## Rastadog (Oct 24, 2006)

Curious as to forum members who have been in the obedience ring working towards titles. I showed some, 25 trials over a four year time frame with my first golden. We were good enough to earn some HIT's but we both didn't like the show ring, BUT we did love the training. What I wouldn't give to do a heeling pattern with her again. I have two at home now but have been unwilling to train them for the ring. It's time for me to use some of the training tricks I've learned, from some very good teachers, to build my relationship with my current companions. Hopeing by starting this thread it might get me to take out the training bag full of toys, collars, articles, leashes, flexis and maybe some three year old pieces of sting cheese, cut into various sizes. Please share your experiences and feelings about training and showing in AKC obedience. Thanks Alex


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## PeggyK (Apr 16, 2005)

I have always found that obedience training is wonderful in so many ways. One, you have a better behaved companion, two-they are better socialized(if you do group classes,) but the best result is that the bond between trainer and dog is sooooooooo much stronger. My first Golden, Boomer was in obedience for years and he was wonderful. I did enter him in some shows and he even won a silver bowl as highest scoring dog in the compeptition. I never did it for titles, just for fun but the training made him a fabulous dog. I could put him in the "Stand" position with 75 nursery school children around him and I could leave the building and he wouldn't move until I came back and released him!!!! Training dogs is like so many other things in life-you get out of it-what you put into it. All this make me want to take the dumb-bells out and work with Coach. I broke my shoulder when he was about 10 weeks old and he was never tained as well as boomer-and I think he would be better, since all he wants to do is please us.


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## Rastadog (Oct 24, 2006)

*Thanks Peggy*

It good to read that someone else understands the bond and the relationship benfits of competition obedience training. That is the reason my two aren't trained like my first. In some ways it's been emotional safer for me not to do the relationship work with my current companions. They are both good dogs and deserve to be given the confidence relationship based motavational training can do. For basic pet owners it is hard to explain the bond you have with your utility dog. It does carry over into day to day life. With my first golden we lived the last 5 or 6 years off lead in all situations, vets waiting room, obedience club, etc. That trust came from a foundation in obedience.


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## LaurJen (Aug 10, 2006)

I don't think I realized there were obedience ring trials. What is involved (types of classes, etc.) in getting a dog to that point?


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## JimS (Jan 2, 2007)

Never shown in obedience...not yet anyhow. We ran hunt tests for a couple of years though. I'm hoping to try obedience as well as hunt tests with the new still unnamed pup....maybe even try my hand at the Derby. I'm retiring a couple of weeks after the pup comes home...so I'll have all sorts of time to work with the pup, take classes and go to matches, trials, and tests.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Yes. Have earned a few minor titles. Nothing special. Watch for my SL in a ring near you. He's a nutjob, though. My new puppy (who isn't born yet) is, I hope, my future superstar


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Laurjen, they have obedience shows. Often they are held at the same time as a conformation dog show, but not always. Dogs are shown in three levels in obedience. The dog earns a title in his level by earning a qualifying score in three shows. He does not have to beat other dogs' scores, though if he does he gets ribbons.

You walk in with 200 points and lose points for each error. If you lose too many, you do not qualify. NQ that's called. If you do qualify, you get one of your 'three legs' towards your title in your level, and a green qualifying ribbon.

The levels are as follows:

Companion Dog (CD after the dog's name)- this is novice level. Sit, down, short stays, heelwork on and off leash, stand for exam, and a recall

Companion Dog Excellent (CDX after the dog's name)- this is open level. More complicated, with a retrieve and a broad jump, etc included

Utility Dog (UD after the dog's name)- the most advanced and includes hand signals, directed jumping, scent work... very tough!

Dogs can also earn a UDX (VERY HARD)

To earn the coveted OTCh (Obedience trial champion, which goes BEFORE the dog's name) you have to beat other dogs, not just qualify.

Note: in AKC, titles BEFORE the name indicate the dog beat other dogs to earn them- Champion, OTCh, Field Ch, MACh, etc... titles AFTER the name are earned by qualifying, regardless of other dogs' scores- JH, MH, SH, CD, CDX, UD, etc


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## Rastadog (Oct 24, 2006)

*Well written Aqua Clara*

You covered all the important stuff


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

The MOST important thing is that it is FUN!! Like all dog sports, some people take it too seriously, but for the most part it's a LOT of fun. And it's a lot more meaningful to earn something based on your mutual respect and teamwork with your dog- rather than some subjective or political opinion as often happens in the breed ring. Many novices get started in obedience by taking their family pet to a dog training class and discovering how FUN it is!


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## DanielleH (Nov 4, 2006)

Haven't yet, but definitly interested in starting Obedience trials in the next year or so I think it would be a lot fun!


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## Rastadog (Oct 24, 2006)

*Well put, FUN!*

Not just for the ring but in everyday life training make it fun. For home or the ring breaking down training into a series of games be upbeat and nonjudgemental teaching your dog not to be afraid of learning or being wrong. Learning to be interesting to your dog so they want to pay attention to you. We did work at it but that work was fun for both of us.


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## hawtee (Nov 1, 2006)

This summer I plan to enter our first obedience trial, I have been showing Lilli in pre-novice and Rally(which is a ball). I feel we are almost ready for the real test lol..
my experience in pre-novice was a hoot, I did not realize that Lilli would go up to the post (a person during the figure 8) and lick her toes. The post was wearing sandals it was so funny. Thank heavens the judge had a sense of humor.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

I got into this because it is fun! A Golden's sweet life is too darn short to be miserable...Liberty LOVES to train and loves to work a crowd... she thinks they are there to watch her! Lexi loves to train, but hates to compete (hates the ring noise and throng of dogs) - so the backyard and park are her 'rings'. Just becuase she will never earn a "title" doesnt mean she isnt worthy of my time and attention. Training is great for her mind, body and soul...


I compete with Liberty...she has her CD and RA (1/3 or her RE) in AKC and her CD in ASCA as well....

We are working and working and working on Open exercises right now...she hasnt entered in any trials but will in July.....

Currently trying to clean up her dumbell work....tightening up her grip....and increasing her speed...

Always working on heeling... <smile>

In Utility exercises we are working on go outs - again on speed...she loves to prance out there.... I would like to see her run - to reduce the chance she will become distracted!

Am learning the different methods of teaching articles....I am leaning in favor of starting with two articles slowly adding 1 by 1 . Any favored methods here?


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## Rastadog (Oct 24, 2006)

*Janice Demello's*

Round the clock method of scent discrimination, the tape is boring, and the dog she used a bit to well trained, but the method works very well and was used by many who have trained otch dogs. I believe you can still buy it. I have the written instructions around somewhere. You're smart to be working on go outs now. Speed can be trained. Maybe a little scoot on the butt with your hand as you give your get it command or go out command. It will taken a few reps but the dog learns to beat the pop by being fast. Good luck with your open work. Many dogs do better at open than novice because it's more interesting. But with all obedience work attention is the glue that keeps it all together. Make yourself interesting to your dogs, play games,do the unexpected. One other suggestion, Teri Arnold wrote a 3 part series of obedience training books that are excellent. They are about 100 bucks but worth it. She has a web site. Have fun with it.


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## hawtee (Nov 1, 2006)

What is the round the clock method for scent?


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## Rastadog (Oct 24, 2006)

*This may help*

Janice Demello, The Around the Clock Method of Scent Discrimination

Or goggle Janice Demello


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## greg bell (May 24, 2005)

know exactly what you mean about liking training, but not particularly liking the actual competition... I am the same way with my field work.. but i need to do the competition to really motivate myself to get out there every day and do the training.. 
It is really about time for me to get another pup, but I just hate the puppy stuff.. I do like pups, but they come to you so stupid.. lol.. 
getting the ribbons and titles is a high high..but the tension and nervousness makes me gotta pee 20 times on the way to the line..


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## Rastadog (Oct 24, 2006)

*Been there done that*

Greg, I get it. I would hit the mens room at least twice in the 30 min prior to being in the ring. In 25 trials I only had the same dog I had in training 3-4 times. The reason for that is she didn't have the same handler. In obedience there is a connection that comes from both members of the team. I would stop breathing from nerves and disconnect from my partner in the ring. I do know what you mean about puppies. The ribbons are cool but the connection between dog and handler is what it's all about. I know you both benefit from the bond developed in training. I like the field work and have gone to some tests or trials? The dead bird thing put me off. I did date a woman who kept dead birds in her freezer. Funny the stuff we do for our dogs.


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## greg bell (May 24, 2005)

lol..yep..i understand the dead ducks in freezer.. i have a few of those myself.. 
some days it is so hard to motivate myself.. to do this stuff requires a lot of set up time and usually other people to train with.. getting it all together takes real work... and I put a lot of time and work into it..
have never been, nor do i plan on being, a checkbook trainer.. know a pro would probably do better, but would lose a lot of the satisfaction i get from the days that everything goes right and know that "we" did it ourselves.. 
plus I would be a lot poorer.. 
overall, I end up with one hell of a hunting dog out of the process.. I am kinda common in field trials and hunt tests.. 
I train with an ecollar which most people on here are going to shiver at..but modern collars are adjustable and i just use a low level "nick".. pretty tough to correct a dog that is 200 yards from you without some kinda remote tool.. but, because of it the tests and trials have increased in difficulty by quantum leaps over the last 20 years or so.. training equipment and methods have advanced incredibly..


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## Rastadog (Oct 24, 2006)

*AH dog sports*

The space and setup req. for what you do vs. obedience and the space involved would seem time consuming. I did drag gates and jumps around but I was lazy and did most of my training at home, big basement carpeted and a large yard for outside work. I used an ear pinch during retrieving training so I understand the purpose and use of an e-collar. While I'm a positive motavational trainer I learned that dogs are not people and some compulsion is necssary for reliability. That is true in real life training. The most violent correction my dog would get was a violent scruff shake with both hands on each side of her face if she didn't come when called. This only happened once or twice a year. Usually a fresh pile of deer scat would help her make the wrong choice. Off lead recall could be life or death and was not negotiable. The majority of people here are pet owners and cringe at the thought of ear pinches and e-collars. My dog didn't wear a prong till she was three because I didn't understand then. I do now. Best wishes on your field training.


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## hawtee (Nov 1, 2006)

Rastadog & Greg,
question for both. In obedience Lilli still mouths the dumbell, have tried cookie on the nose, hand under the chin and lightly tapping the dumbell . I find that when she has a duck in her mouth she has a nice solid soft hold from the weight. With a bumper she still mouths but not as much as with a dumbell,so I went as far as adding weight to the dumbell and no mouthing, a little weight to the bumber again no mouthing. Do you have any other suggestions to stop the mouthing without having the extra weight attached?
Thanks


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Have you checked her bite with the dumbell in place? 
When I really got down and looked at Liberty's bite with the dumbell in place - the diameter of the bar was too small. I switched to a 15/16" diameter bar and in addition to being a little bit heavier, it clearly 'fits' better. While I was waiting for it to arrive....I wrapped the bar with vet wrap....it was a good transition for her...

Does she mouth when she is sitting in front or walking with it or both?

Regards,
Mary


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## hawtee (Nov 1, 2006)

Ok the outside is 2 3/4 (Square)and looks like it is 3/4 dia..she mouths it mostly when moving and a little when in front. Will try the vet wrap and see what happens.
thanks


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I break mouthing by having the dog go over a jump when teaching the dumbbell. Most dogs won't mouth when they're jumping.


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## Rastadog (Oct 24, 2006)

*back to basics*

I taught, take it, hold and drop as seperate commands. Maybe your dog doesn't understand the hold part. Why not go backward and teach the hold. Hold dog in heel position dumbell in right hand, take it, and now with left hand stroke the dogs head, control the dogs lower jaw with your right hand. Praise if no mouthing. Make it short to start, 2-3 seconds, praise, food and then set her up and do it again increasing time as you both figure it out. Build this foundation with repitition. I would work on this a couple of times a day for a week, short 3-5 min training sessions. Make it fun. It may be as simple as your girl isn't clear that mouthing is not ok. The birds and bumpers are just too big to do that. You might get a dumbell with a bigger dowel but keep the ends the same so they don't interfere with her vision. Good luck let us know how it goes.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Confirmed obedience addict here! My first competitive dog was my Whippet, Zoie. We did well and she was the #1 Obedience Whippet for 2004.

Quiz, the Golden, should debut in obedience the end of this year or early next. He's been in training since I got him at 7 weeks! I'm a total perfectionist and want to get a 198+! Fortunately, he LOVES anything that we get to do together, so he enjoys the endless hours of training spent trying to fine tune every little front and finish!

-Stephanie


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## Rastadog (Oct 24, 2006)

*#1 Whippet*

Good for you, showing a breed not often seen in the obedience ring. Have fun with your golden, fronts and finishes were the only part of training I hated to do. They are of the utmost importance at the level you are working. We won classes and trials but averaged 1 1/2 points off for fronts and finishes. That doesn't cut it in a good open b class. Work the details, sounds like you have the attitude. Good luck when you come out. It may be just a bit harder being #1 golden, lol.


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## hawtee (Nov 1, 2006)

Thanks for the back to the basics check..will do that and see what happens.We have the take it and the drop and now will work on the hold part .
I appreciate your insight.


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## greg bell (May 24, 2005)

Mouthing has never been an issue with me..I guess because we train and work with bumpers and ducks... she will mouth a tennis ball or stick when playing, but it just doesnt matter to me... it is not one of the fights that i choose to fight.. she does fine with the bumpers and ducks..
so i am no help
I do teach hold, drop, and fetch as seperate commands also.. when i do teach hold i put the object in her mouth and command hold.. and if she so much as moves that lower jaw, I tap her under the jaw and "no"..."hold"... but my objective is to just not have her drop it.. fetch, of course, is a big deal... a very big deal..


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Whippets are very intelligent, but hard to motivate. Mine is VERY good and knows many tricks and commands, but he's so ABOVE it all LOL He doesn't work for food or toys- both bore him. My GR on the other hand... would sell my soul to Satan for a piece of kibble.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Rastadog said:


> Good for you, showing a breed not often seen in the obedience ring. Have fun with your golden, fronts and finishes were the only part of training I hated to do. They are of the utmost importance at the level you are working. We won classes and trials but averaged 1 1/2 points off for fronts and finishes. That doesn't cut it in a good open b class. Work the details, sounds like you have the attitude. *Good luck when you come out. It may be just a bit harder being #1 golden, lol.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Haha! Ya think?!?  No plans on being #1 Golden, but we do aspire to earn an OTCH -- which is challenging enough, w/o the added fact that in my area, trials are usually dominated by Louise Meredith who has Twister, the NOC dog from a couple years ago, or Flo Walberg. They seem to trial every weekend and one or the other of them take HIT and HC at almost every trial! My "competitive" friends usually try and travel out of the area in hopes of picking up OTCH points!
> ...


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

hawtee said:


> Rastadog & Greg,
> question for both. In obedience Lilli still mouths the dumbell, have tried cookie on the nose, hand under the chin and lightly tapping the dumbell . I find that when she has a duck in her mouth she has a nice solid soft hold from the weight. With a bumper she still mouths but not as much as with a dumbell,so I went as far as adding weight to the dumbell and no mouthing, a little weight to the bumber again no mouthing. Do you have any other suggestions to stop the mouthing without having the extra weight attached?
> Thanks


I've tried a couple things for mouthing:

1. I take a dowel the same diameter as my dumbbell and weight only ONE end. Now the dog has to hold it tight vs. letting it rest behind the canines. I do a ton of work on "hold" that way and get the dog to do everything he knows how to do (sit, down, heel, tricks, etc.) with the un-evenly weighted object in his mouth.

2. I've also used a piece of string on the dumbbell and will pull a just enough to get the dog to tighten the grip. Fade the pull, then the string as the dog gets the hang on it.

Lots of calm priase during the holding. I also think you need to be careful about rewarding with food once the dog releases the dumbbell --- you're actually rewarding the "out" that way. I think that makes some dogs mouth more in anticipation of the "out" and the cookie that follows.

The string method is working really well for me right now.

-Stephanie


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> I break mouthing by having the dog go over a jump when teaching the dumbbell. Most dogs won't mouth when they're jumping.



True, but do you find that you get the carryover on the front?  

I played around with that with Quiz and yes, he'll tighten the hold while running and jumping, but as soon as he hits the front, the mothing resumes.

I think the biggest reason for the problem is that most of us want to rush the "take" and "hold" pieces of the retrieve to hurry up and get to the actual retrieving part! I think that's where I messed up. He didn't fully, fully understand "hold" before I added the rest. I should have had him doing everything under the sun while "holding" (in other words, major "hold" proofing) before I added the retrieve part. 

Ahhhh.... live and learn!

-Stephanie


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## Rastadog (Oct 24, 2006)

*I forgot the string thing*

Stephanie, Our dumbell had a string on it for a long time. For three or four years I was very serious about obedience I've since watched results of trails and It seems that dogs, judges and handlers kinda cycle when viewed or a three year period. Sort of like the stock market. You mentioned 198, that score will win many open b classes and even more in utility b. If you work maintain, connection/attitude , work the detail stuff as mentioned earlier and keep up your healing, what's nicer than a really good figure 8?, You will get your OTCH and in the process beat good teams by being better than they are on any given day. Like the stock market, consistantly good dogs get their OTCH. It sounds like you have a lot more dog now,lol . I had to cheerlead my first golden. It is nice not to have to do that. I was on the verge of training for an otch with my puppy who will be two in April. Lessons 150 miles away when she was 10 and 12 weeks old with an excellent teacher I liked. I found between missing my first dog and hating the ring I blew it off. Reading your posts I know how you feel and I do remember the excitement and fun of good training and getting ready to show. We used ASCA trails for warmups before the AKC trials. Good luck again


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