# About corn ...



## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

It would be interesting to actually read the article. I would take it with a grain of salt, because it appears the authors have monetary "skin in the game."

But I do believe that GMOs present one of humanity's greatest threats, and recent legislation really enhances that risk at a number of levels.

There was another thread on the forum where various members were talking about whether the ferulic acid levels in heated sweet corn can be found in its field corn counterpart.

I wonder...if the assertion in the linked article is correct, that Monsanto GM field corn has substantially less of a number of minerals (and that Monsanto is lying about it), I wonder if the *perhaps* false nutritional data factor into corn-based pet food nutritional breakdowns. 

I'm not sure if the nutritional numbers on the labels of dog foods have to be independently verified after the food has been manufactured, or if manufacturers can use the nutritional information from the raw ingredients to derive the final nutritional analysis.

It's all a lot of what-ifs, I suppose, but I'm sure there are people who have information like that...


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

goldentemperment said:


> It would be interesting to actually read the article. I would take it with a grain of salt, because it appears the authors have monetary "skin in the game."
> But I do believe that GMOs present one of humanity's greatest threats, and recent legislation really enhances that risk at a number of levels.
> 
> There was another thread on the forum where various members were talking about whether the ferulic acid levels in heated sweet corn can be found in its field corn counterpart.
> ...


 
There are quite a few interviews (youtube) & articles/studies on the subject. According to Dr Don Huber " the nutritional efficiency of GE plants is profoundly compromised. Micronutrients such as iron, manganese and zinc can be reduced by as much as 80-90% "
Dr. Don Huber Talks about Genetically-Engineered Foods


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

Another study released ...
(Roundup is used on GM crops) 
New Study Links Roundup to Diabetes, Autism, Infertility and Cancer


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Do people realize that over 90% of the corn and soybeans grown in North America are GMO and have been now for almost two decades? GMO's are here and there is no way to eradicate them at this point. There DNA is out in the environment and you can't put the genie back in the bottle.


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

Swampcollie said:


> Do people realize that over 90% of the corn and soybeans grown in North America are GMO and have been now for almost two decades? GMO's are here and there is no way to eradicate them at this point. There DNA is out in the environment and you can't put the genie back in the bottle.


This is why the whole world is marching against Monsanto on MAY 25th ... 
It CAN get worse ... GM alfalfa, GM salmon. GM etc


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

Swampcollie said:


> Do people realize that over 90% of the corn and soybeans grown in North America are GMO and have been now for almost two decades? GMO's are here and there is no way to eradicate them at this point. There DNA is out in the environment and you can't put the genie back in the bottle.


Denmark did a great job significantly reducing the ammount of GMO foods about a decade ago, they forced mandatory GMO labelling on the menus of restaurants beside names along with on the top front right corner of a package, the GMO products available now has reduced 10 fold


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

Tuco said:


> Denmark did a great job significantly reducing the ammount of GMO foods about a decade ago, they forced mandatory GMO labelling on the menus of restaurants beside names along with on the top front right corner of a package, the GMO products available now has reduced 10 fold
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App[/QUOTE
> ...


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

I keep waiting for some nice organic farm to sue Monsanto that their crops are being tainted by Monsanto's icky seeds. Turn about for Monsanto after they sued farmers whose crops were inadvertently Monsanto based seeds.

I'd put money up for them.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Gwen_Dandridge said:


> I keep waiting for some nice organic farm to sue Monsanto that their crops are being tainted by Monsanto's icky seeds. Turn about for Monsanto after they sued farmers whose crops were inadvertently Monsanto based seeds.
> 
> I'd put money up for them.


They can't sue. Congress just passed a law baring such suits.

Getting excited about GMO Corn and Soybeans is kind of like getting excited about the barn door being left open 25 years after the cows got out. It's too late now.


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

Swampcollie said:


> They can't sue. Congress just passed a law baring such suits.
> 
> Getting excited about GMO Corn and Soybeans is kind of like getting excited about the barn door being left open 25 years after the cows got out. It's too late now.


That's exactly what Monsanto wants to hear.
But ... what if ... ie millions of parents in America suddenly stop feeding their children Kelloggs (= GMO corn) ?
Kellogs who btw spent more than half a million $ in their campaign against mandatory labelling of GMOs... 

Meanwhile ... there are 235 cities across the globe (...and counting) taking action on May 25th (https://www.facebook.com/events/147274678766425/)


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## CITIgolden (Mar 9, 2013)

Gwen_Dandridge said:


> I keep waiting for some nice organic farm to sue Monsanto that their crops are being tainted by Monsanto's icky seeds. Turn about for Monsanto after they sued farmers whose crops were inadvertently Monsanto based seeds.
> 
> I'd put money up for them.


That would be the day! Unfortunately, as retarded as our system is - one can't patent "organic seeds" and/or most organic farmers don't have the money to even try suing...

I try to avoid products with corn altogether whether for dogs or myself, some stuff is impossible to avoid unfortunately...Dogs just don't need corn. I'm begging a switch to raw food this weekend so we'll see how that works - the problem obviously being that most animals have been fed corn, ugh....


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## CITIgolden (Mar 9, 2013)

T&T said:


> That's exactly what Monsanto wants to hear.
> But ... what if ... ie millions of parents in America suddenly stop feeding their children Kelloggs (= GMO corn) ?
> Kellogs who btw spent more than half a million $ in their campaign against mandatory labelling of GMOs...
> 
> Meanwhile ... there are 235 cities across the globe (...and counting) taking action on May 25th (https://www.facebook.com/events/147274678766425/)


The problem is that corn is so heavily subsidized in the US that even farm raised fish is being fed corn (which is beyond insane)...there's no way in the world you can completely avoid it whether you're a vegetarian or not...


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

As long as we allow Monsanto, Bayer, and the other genetic "players" to continue business as usual then things are only going to get worse. How can China - with possibly the worst environmental safeguards in place - have banned or have mandatory labeling of GMO's and the U.S. & Canada not? Will we be able to eradicate GMO's in my lifetime? Of course not. But I'm not thinking about me - I'm thinking about my son and my grandsons. We in North America think that 1) Our elected officials actually try to represent our beliefs & wants 2) That business corruption is limited to business and not government 3) That "someone" else will take care of the problem 4) When it comes to food production and pharmaceuticals everything is being done correctly and with the welfare of the people in mind. I'm sure most of us realize all of that is far from the truth. 

Just because the barn door was left open doesn't mean we can't go round up the cows and put them back in the barn. Because if we don't the entire future of food production is at risk of being controlled by three Mega-Agri-Corps which have NO concern for our health and welfare whatsoever.

And yes - at 62 years old I'll be Marching Against Monsanto here in Sacramento.
There is no age limit on doing what's right.


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## CITIgolden (Mar 9, 2013)

sharlin said:


> As long as we allow Monsanto, Bayer, and the other genetic "players" to continue business as usual then things are only going to get worse. How can China - with possibly the worst environmental safeguards in place - have banned or have mandatory labeling of GMO's and the U.S. & Canada not? Will we be able to eradicate GMO's in my lifetime? Of course not. But I'm not thinking about me - I'm thinking about my son and my grandsons. We in North America think that 1) Our elected officials actually try to represent our beliefs & wants 2) That business corruption is limited to business and not government 3) That "someone" else will take care of the problem 4) When it comes to food production and pharmaceuticals everything is being done correctly and with the welfare of the people in mind. I'm sure most of us realize all of that is far from the truth.
> 
> Just because the barn door was left open doesn't mean we can't go round up the cows and put them back in the barn. Because if we don't the entire future of food production is at risk of being controlled by three Mega-Agri-Corps which have NO concern for our health and welfare whatsoever.
> 
> ...


Yes but you're forgetting how busy we are discussing the "all important" issues of abortion (fetus rights) while tens of thousands of LIVE babies die every day in ERs because of lack of access to care and we top the list of countries with the highest birth mortality rates in the world, gay marriage in a country with over 60% divorce rate, and not even mention gun rights...while you have no rights to know where your food comes from or for example in some states like NY BY LAW you can't even get your blood test results directly from the lab.


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

CITIgolden said:


> The problem is that corn is so heavily subsidized in the US that even farm raised fish is being fed corn (which is beyond insane)...there's no way in the world you can completely avoid it whether you're a vegetarian or not...


You're right. It's difficult to avoid GMO corn either directly or indirectly. My best hope as a pesacatarian (eat seafood) is to carefully source my seafood selections. Fortunately, living in the Northwest makes that easier.


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)




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## tobysmommy (Jan 9, 2011)

Friends, please remember to keep potentially explosive political topics out of any discussions here on GRF. They never end well. Let's stick to discussing all things Golden, without alluding to subjects that will almost certainly make enemies of friends. Thank you.


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

Why did you close the other one, it was an extremely interesting thread and I feel a warning would have been sufficient


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

I really don't understand how this thread or the other that was closed in ChitChat can be labeled political. I would venture to say that a vast majority of members feed their packs some sort of corn based kibble or treats. I have not tried to either endorse nor condemn any feeding practice of any member. It is simply a matter of making sure all members are given information regarding WHATEVER impacts the health of their furkids. I have seen numerous posts whenever a supplier changes their formula alerting members to the change. All I ask is that members be aware and investigate the possible pitfalls of GMO based food. Look at both sides of the equation with open eyes and make your determination.


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

Although the approval of GMOs was a political decision & not a scientific one, I think it's quite obvious that these threads were meant to raise awareness & not political debates. 

Why ? Because I've been following/researching GMOs for now 8 years and the biggest misconception is that GM crops are same as conventional crops & just an extension of traditional breeding.

And because every single independant study that I have come across (other than Monsanto's) have linked GMOs and it's herbicide RoundUp to health issues.


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## Rob's GRs (Feb 25, 2007)

Swampcollie said:


> Do people realize that over 90% of the corn and soybeans grown in North America are GMO and have been now for almost two decades? GMO's are here and there is no way to eradicate them at this point. There DNA is out in the environment and you can't put the genie back in the bottle.


 
Prior to this Humans have altered the genomes of species for thousands of years through artificial selection and now this can be looked at as just another form of selective breeding.


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## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

I heard on the radio the other day that GM crops tend to lack natural probiotics that non-GM crops have. I've been meaning to get around to researching that, but it's a compelling statement, if true.


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## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

Rob's GRs said:


> Prior to this Humans have altered the genomes of species for thousands of years through artificial selection and now this can be looked at as just another form of selective breeding.


I guess I take issue with that argument because the selective breeding human beings have been doing is still within the scope of nature. Injecting and modifying things at the chemical and atomic level is not the same as compelling two animals to reproduce


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## Rob's GRs (Feb 25, 2007)

goldentemperment said:


> I guess I take issue with that argument because the selective breeding human beings have been doing is still within the scope of nature. Injecting and modifying things at the chemical and atomic level is not the same as compelling two animals to reproduce


However it is still all a "modification" from an original to change the DNA no matter what the method.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

goldentemperment said:


> I guess I take issue with that argument because the selective breeding human beings have been doing is still within the scope of nature. Injecting and modifying things at the chemical and atomic level is not the same as compelling two animals to reproduce


Not to take this totally off topic, but I disagree. It's certainly not an identical situation to crops, but they have modified certain breeds beyond repair, IMO. For example, bulldogs are incapable of breeding naturally if left to their own devices (they require human intervention to breed) and have to have c-section, as they have been selectively bred to the point where they cannot deliver puppies. They were intentionally selected for traits that people initially deemed desireable (bowleggedness, etc) and then the continually bred them to the point they are at today. I watched a really interesting documentary on it a couple of years ago. Anyway, back to corn.


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

Key word ... 


"A GMO (genetically modified organism) is the result of a laboratory process where genes from the DNA of one species are extracted and artificially forced into the genes of an *unrelated* plant or animal. The foreign genes may come from bacteria, viruses, insects, animals or even humans. Because this involves the transfer of genes, GMOs are also known as "transgenic" organisms.
This process may be called either Genetic Engineering (GE) or Genetic Modification (GM); they are one and the same. Read more. "


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## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> Not to take this totally off topic, but I disagree. It's certainly not an identical situation to crops, but they have modified certain breeds beyond repair, IMO. For example, bulldogs are incapable of breeding naturally if left to their own devices (they require human intervention to breed) and have to have c-section, as they have been selectively bred to the point where they cannot deliver puppies. They were intentionally selected for traits that people initially deemed desireable (bowleggedness, etc) and then the continually bred them to the point they are at today. I watched a really interesting documentary on it a couple of years ago. Anyway, back to corn.


In any event, it speaks to the fallability of humans, even well-intentioned ones. It's hard to compare the selective breeding of dogs to GMOs, because the rate at which these modifications are introduced into the gene pool is so much faster with GMOs, and the scope is so much wider than a dog breeder could do.

As far as "...have modified certain breeds beyond repair," I disagree with a premise of that, because if dogs were able to reproduce at the rate corn does, a breed like bulldogs could be brought back to a more "self-sufficient" state within a few years via selective reproduction. And that doesn't account for natural mechanisms that would eventually correct through natural selection, if selective breeding were abandoned, given a large enough population. 

With dog breeding, a desired trait may be targeted, and eventually achieved, but breed enthusiasts would notice at somepoint if, in the process of developing that trait, side-effects were created which were more harmful than the benefit added by the desired trait, and they could attempt to correct. Bulldog breeders saw the birthing problem, but continued developing those traits anyway.

Never, in the history of anything ever, has a gene pool been modified at the rate and scope corn and soy have over the past couple generations, save for *perhaps* the after-effects of nuclear bombs or meteors.

So even if corn and soy were able to be selectively reproduced to produce "desired results" (which to some extent, they are), I still would prefer that over GMOs because selective reproduction happens under the machinations of a natural world that's pretty good at correcting itself when something goes terribly wrong. When we remove or alter that mechanism, we assume risks that may not manifest themselves for years.


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

Rob's GRs said:


> Prior to this Humans have altered the genomes of species for thousands of years through artificial selection and now this can be looked at as just another form of selective breeding.


I also take issue with that statement, even pro GM biochemists are often against the comparison. The key is that with selective breeding you are taking 2 closely related things and combining to get Desirable traits, while GM organisms are the drastic combination of sometimes even dozens of genes from organisms that can be unrelated going as far back to their perspective classes or phylums, it's like comparing a blood transfusion from a parent to dr Frankenstein mixing together body parts from 20 different people


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## Rob's GRs (Feb 25, 2007)

Tuco said:


> I also take issue with that statement, even pro GM biochemists are often against the comparison. The key is that with selective breeding you are taking 2 closely related things and combining to get Desirable traits, while GM organisms are the drastic combination of sometimes even dozens of genes from organisms that can be unrelated going as far back to their perspective classes or phylums, it's like comparing a blood transfusion from a parent to dr Frankenstein mixing together body parts from 20 different people
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


It is all still modification and you cannot stop science....... So I guess we will have to just disagree......


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## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

There was another topic I wanted to address in my book-of-a-post earlier, and that is GM's relationship with other organisms in an open-system. With selective breeding, changes are not generally so drastic that they could alter the rest of the system's patterns, even within many generations.

But consider a genetic modification that removes a protein, or some other main component of the plant's makeup. Birds or other animals that eat the plant might not survive, because they rely on that particular ingredient of the plant. 

Genetic modfication has downstream food chain impact, even if the plant or animal is modified similar to how it would be via natural reproduction (although, I think it's a stretch to say that GM and selective reproduction results in similar genetic changes...they don't).


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## Rob's GRs (Feb 25, 2007)

And now that we have diverted this topic off politics and strictly on GMO.... Let me say I never said the result from it may ever get to what they are looking for. I never even mentioned I am really for it, or totally against it. Just pointing out that mankind has once again made modifications to living things by way of science and more than likely it will not stop here. That is all I was pointing out.......


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## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

Rob's GRs said:


> And now that we have diverted this topic off politics and strictly on GMO.... Let me say I never said the result from it may ever get to what they are looking for. I never even mentioned I am really for it, or totally against it. Just pointing out that mankind has once again made modifications to living things by way of science and more than likely it will not stop here. That is all I was pointing out.......


Fair enough.


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

Rob's GRs said:


> It is all still modification and you cannot stop science....... So I guess we will have to just disagree......


Yes, but the difference is the predictability of the result, they are often very unstable and unpredictable in the resulting changes. BGH turned out to increase mammary cancer levels, octadecatetraenic acid was eventually found in GM tobacco plants which was never in the original plants, GM yeast was found to accumulate the metabolite methyl-glyoxal in toxic and mutagenic concentrations, 

A brazil nut gene was inserted into Soya and unexpected strong allergic
reactions were recorded in nut-allergic persons whom had never had a problem with normal Soya. Also the inserted brazil nut gene did not code for any known allergen (Nordlee et al,. 1996).



(Organic consumer)


� A bacterium was engineered to produce increased levels of the amino acid
L-tryptophan which was harvested and sold as a nutritional supplement in a
tablet form extensively across health food stores. Small amounts of a
toxic, tryptophan-related molecule was identified in the tablets (Sidransky
et al,. 1994). This toxic tryptophan-related molecule may have been the
cause of EMS (easinophilia-myalgia syndrome) in persons whom consumed the
product and resulted in 37 deaths and 1500 cases of chronic neurological and
auto-immune symptoms. However, this has never been clarified because the GM
stock of bacteria was not available for investigation (Australian Gen-Ethics
Network, 1994).

� Research at the Scottish Crop Research Institute in Dundee demonstrated
indirect ecological effects from GM potatoes expressing an inserted lecthin
gene to reduce aphid attacks. Ladybirds predating the aphids had a
significant reduction in life expectancy and reproducibility. Likewise,
researchers at the Swiss Federal Research Station for Agroecology in Zurich
demonstrated serious harm to lacewings foraging on aphids affected by the
insecticide Bt toxin produced by GM. (The disappearance of predators of
crop-ruining insects via modern farming practices is already a major
worldwide problem for the maintenance of biodiversity, further acceleration
in this process would indeed be tragic, claims this report).

� Field trails in Denmark and Scotland have shown that GM oilseed rape
transferred its inserted transgene by cross-pollination of wild relatives
(Mikkelsen et al,. 1996). In France transfer of resistance genes from rape
to radish have been documented (Chevre et al., 1997). (Similar examples of
the spread of transgenes over long distances have been demonstrated for
other GM species and it is for this reason that organic farmers in European
countries have initiated legal actions for fear that their produce may
become deprived of the "organic" label).




There is a reason people call them franken-foods


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

Lots of answers in this "evidence-based" PDF on GMO Myths & Truths
http://www.nongmoproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/GMO_Myths_and_Truths_1.31.pdf


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## AlanK (Jun 28, 2008)

I had to modify my jeans a couple of years ago....34 to 36 ....Oops you all are talking scientific genes...:doh:....my bad.


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## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

AlanK said:


> I had to modify my jeans a couple of years ago....34 to 36 ....Oops you all are talking scientific genes...:doh:....my bad.


Genetically modified jeans are humanity's greatest thread. Especially the ones with the tapered leg.


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## AlanK (Jun 28, 2008)

goldentemperment said:


> Genetically modified jeans are humanity's greatest thread. Especially the ones with the tapered leg.


Im doomed...I always buy the boot cut with slight taper and back in the 70's I got the big bells


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

AlanK said:


> I had to modify my jeans a couple of years ago....34 to 36 ....Oops you all are talking scientific genes...:doh:....my bad.


Actually ... 

Genetically modified jeans? Monsanto takes on cotton - New York Sustainable Living | Examiner.com


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## AlanK (Jun 28, 2008)

T&T said:


> Actually ...
> 
> Genetically modified jeans? Monsanto takes on cotton - New York Sustainable Living | Examiner.com


Well I cant take this scientist seriously with a name like that....lol

"Monsanto scientist Phoong Tang just made the announcement on the new modified cotton strain at the Australian Cotton Conference"


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

AlanK said:


> Well I cant take this scientist seriously with a name like that....lol
> 
> "Monsanto scientist Phoong Tang just made the announcement on the new modified cotton strain at the Australian Cotton Conference"


Lmao I kinda lost the h and g in his first name, poor guy


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

As we know, GM crops are sprayed with RoundUp

"There is now a CLASS ACTION SUIT in the works for RoundUp Consumers who have been exposed to RoundUp and are now diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease, Autism, Birth Defects, or Cancer " http://www.yourlawyer.com/topics/overview/Monsanto-Roundup-Herbicide-Linked-to-Parkinson-Autism-and-Birth-Defects

There's been many studies ... here's the latest [URL]http://www.mdpi.com/search?q&journal&volume&authors=samsel&section&issue&article_type&special_issue&page&search=Search[/URL]


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

Love it !!!
This canine, along with 2 million humans across the globe, marched against GMOs this Saturday ...


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

BREAKING NEWS

EFSA validates the Seralini long term study which revealed serious health impacts of GM corn ( & it's herbicide it is engineered to be grown with). This after much premeditated ill-judged unscientific attacks on the French research team.
http://gmoseralini.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/GES-final-study-19.9.121.pdf (WARNING: pics of rats with grotesque tumors included)

http://gmoseralini.org/seralini-validated-by-new-efsa-guidelines-on-long-term-gmo-experiments/


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

No matter how deep the truth gets buried - it always digs its way back to the top.


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

This May 24th, millions across the planet will march against Monsanto's GMOs again ... and yes, corn & soy used by the petfood industry is Monsanto's GMOs  now banned in many countries ...
Here's the latest on the SERALINI GMO toxicity paper Tumors, Bad Organs, and Deathâ€¦Oh My! | Institute for Responsible Technology

Here's all the cities marching this year across all continents !
March Against Monsanto: May 2014 Events

Or thru FB page https://www.facebook.com/MarchAgainstMonstanto


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