# Thyroid test results are in !!!!! Need help



## jweisman54 (May 22, 2010)

I don't know if any of you have been following any of my threads but Izzy has been shedding excessively and is also on Prozac for her tail chasing and fur pulling. Her thyroid panel came back yesterday with the values as follows:

Total T4 1.0 ref range 1.0-4.0
Free T4 14 ref range 8-40
TSH <.10 ref range 0.00 - 0.60

The vet says that she is perfectly normal with no hypothyroidism but her total t4 seems to be on the very low end of normal.

Any suggestions?

Her CBC was all totally within all limits.

The lab that did the work was Antech Diagnostics.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

We're in the midst of getting the girls tested. Their Antech T4 came back at 1.3. We're going to be sending a sample to Dr Dodds the first of the week. Many vets don't see low normal as a problem, but thru the forum we see that isn't so. With her issues going on, I'd at least have a consult with Dr. Dodds. Her site is www.hemopet.com I think there is a $40 consult fee, but she will work with your vet. My vet wasn't keen on me pursuing the issue, but I felt strongly about it. Bottom line, when he said he didn't think there was any reason to look further, that they're not hypothyroid, I said I hope you're right. Are you willing to do the blood draw and spin for serum and I'll send to Dr Dodds.


----------



## jweisman54 (May 22, 2010)

Would I have to have blood drawn again to send to Dr. Dodd's?


----------



## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

I've been thinking about getting Maddie tested. Her obedience and agility training have been kind of off kilter the past few weeks. A well-known trainer told me to get her tested and to check her thyroid and see if there are any problems going on with her health. If not, we can rule her health out. She just seems lethargic and sleeping more than normally. Somedays are better than others but it maybe could be because of her Lymes....affecting her joints. My mom said she had no problem getting her blood panel done but I just worry that if we give her Glucosamine that it won't help her joints...it may be that as well, not too sure.


----------



## jweisman54 (May 22, 2010)

MaddieMagoo said:


> I've been thinking about getting Maddie tested. Her obedience and agility training have been kind of off kilter the past few weeks. A well-known trainer told me to get her tested and to check her thyroid and see if there are any problems going on with her health. If not, we can rule her health out. She just seems lethargic and sleeping more than normally. Somedays are better than others but it maybe could be because of her Lymes....affecting her joints. My mom said she had no problem getting her blood panel done but I just worry that if we give her Glucosamine that it won't help her joints...it may be that as well, not too sure.


She has been diagnosed with Lyme disease? My previous black lab had it and almost died but was put on a regimen of antibiotics for one month and was fine after that. It did affect her joints and was also more lethargic.


----------



## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

She was diagnosed with it about 3 years ago. She almost died too....but is now much better. But could this be thyroid or her Lymes affecting her joints? She's eating normally and everything. Just lethargic and not always wanting to tug her toys when training...it just concerns me.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

jweisman54 said:


> Would I have to have blood drawn again to send to Dr. Dodd's?


Check on their website. I believe you can have just a consult and fax her the results. Also, you can email and find out all the particulars. I had a few questions and emailed and Dr Dodds herself actually answered! www.hemopet.com


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

MaddieMagoo said:


> She was diagnosed with it about 3 years ago. She almost died too....but is now much better. But could this be thyroid or her Lymes affecting her joints? She's eating normally and everything. Just lethargic and not always wanting to tug her toys when training...it just concerns me.


Go to your vet and get a C6 done for Lyme; it measures Lyme antibodies in the blood. Sometimes the disease goes dormant for a long time and flares up again. The C6 will establish a baseline for how active the disease is so you can see the effects of treatment. It would have been best to have a C6 from the first episode, but you can start now even so.


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I've heard a number of times that low normal might still benefit from supplementation. It would definitely be worth sending out a sample to Dodds.


----------



## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

tippykayak said:


> Go to your vet and get a C6 done for Lyme; it measures Lyme antibodies in the blood. Sometimes the disease goes dormant for a long time and flares up again. The C6 will establish a baseline for how active the disease is so you can see the effects of treatment. It would have been best to have a C6 from the first episode, but you can start now even so.


Okay so can that be included in the blood panel? Since she is getting older, I want to do the full blood panel to make sure everything is functioning correctly. Can she have another episode of Lymes disease? Currently she hasn't been on anything since she took the dosage of doxycycline...the vet hasn't had her on anything since. But, I'm wondering if she should be?


----------



## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

The other thing to be aware of is-do her test results indicate in anyway, autoimmune thyroiditis? She's a little young for it to show up, but if she does have it, she needs to be treated, even if she is low normal. Autoimmune thyroiditis does not get better on its own. The test for this is the TgAA. Did you get her TgAA results?

I have found it is not uncommon for dogs going through puberty to have their thryroid out of whack. This is temporary. The thyroid gland, or thyroid levels, are impacted by many things-stress, illness, pregnancy, whelping, etc. You can treat it or not, as often when the underlying issue is corrected, the thyroid will return to normal. It is a "sick thyroid" One of my old girls had that, and once the underlying issue was resolved, her thyroid returned to normal levels. 

One of my other girls, OTOH, tested thyroid normal on 3 separate occasions, until she was a little over 7. At that point, she came back with autoimmune thyroiditis and had to be placed on medication permanently.


----------



## jweisman54 (May 22, 2010)

TgAA was NOT done, neither was T3.

I did some research and found that young dogs (Izzy is 13 months) generally do NOT have hypothyroidism that it usually shows up when they are older. I think I will send an email to Dr. Dodds with the test results although they will not be the full panel and see what she has to say.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

One thing I'm thinking... and this could just be whatever advice I got from MSU when I got the full panel results for Jacks back. His numbers were low and one of the theories was if the dog is under a good deal of stress that it will cause those numbers to fluctuate. 

I did suspect it could be stress since Jacks is a stress-out machine (he was afraid of blowing curtains at class this past week - they were SO SCARY!). But his numbers were really low.


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

jweisman54 said:


> I don't know if any of you have been following any of my threads but Izzy has been shedding excessively and is also on Prozac for her tail chasing and fur pulling. Her thyroid panel came back yesterday with the values as follows:
> 
> Total T4 1.0 ref range 1.0-4.0
> Free T4 14 ref range 8-40
> ...


 
The paremeters used are "canine", and not breed specific. "Low normal" is QUITE low for Goldens, and I would _insist_ on supplementation. I would also agree with sending the panel results to Dr. Dodds.


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

MaddieMagoo said:


> Okay so can that be included in the blood panel? Since she is getting older, I want to do the full blood panel to make sure everything is functioning correctly. Can she have another episode of Lymes disease? Currently she hasn't been on anything since she took the dosage of doxycycline...the vet hasn't had her on anything since. But, I'm wondering if she should be?


The C6 thing is an Idexx blood test. You'll have to ask your vet how they want it done. It's not part of a normal blood panel, but I'm sure they can draw the sample for the C6 at the same time that they draw the sample for the panel.

A dog absolutely can have a second episode of Lyme if the disease went dormant instead of dying off completely, and they can also get reinfected down the line with a fresh tick bite.

If you really believe your dog isn't right, you're probably correct. Some vets will give doxycycline just in case and take a look at the dog's behavior and the next C6. If the C6 shows a decrease in activity and the dog perks up, chances are it was chronic Lyme. If not, then you've ruled out the Lyme pretty well.


----------



## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I run the Snap4 test at least once a year on my dogs. If, for example, Creed would show a positive for Lyme on that test, I immediately run a C6. You really cannot treat Lyme without the C6 for reference. Otherwise, you are just guessing.

It could be a brand new infection, or it could be a flare-up of the original, especially if it was undertreated.


----------



## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Thank you Linda for the wonderful suggestion...hopefully the cost isn't too much! That's the only main concern, but I want her back to normal and not acting sketchy from time to time.


----------



## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

jweisman54 said:


> TgAA was NOT done, neither was T3.
> 
> I did some research and found that young dogs (Izzy is 13 months) generally do NOT have hypothyroidism that it usually shows up when they are older. I think I will send an email to Dr. Dodds with the test results although they will not be the full panel and see what she has to say.


I am currently digesting Dr. Dodds new book on hypothyroidism and she states in several places that she's seeing dogs diagnosed as hypothyroid (the autoimmune kind) at younger ages, even as early as 17 months. Either Dr. Dodds or MSU can do better and more comprhensive testing of her thyroid levels (as opposed to Antech) and you really need a full panel of tests first to get a proper diagnosis. Our veterinary clinic does the MSU panel for Goldens initially, then once the dog is diagnosed and on supplementation they use Antech for the retesting, which involves a thyroid post-pill absorption test. 

My Barkley was rescued in pretty bad shape when his medical doctor owner brought him in for euthanasia, claiming his allergies were out of whack, causing his fur to fall out. The vet suspected some negligence and lack of proper care and convinced the owner to release him to her so she could treat him and get him into rescue. When they ran the initial tests he was hypothyroid and placed on supplementation while they treated all of his medical issues. When he was better he was retested and once the supplementation was stopped his levels were back to normal. That was an example of stress causing the thyroid to plummet. He was diagnosed again with autoimmune thyroiditis when he was around age 10 (MSU panel done), placed on supplementation and did really well until the hemangiosarcoma reared it's ugly head at age 12 1/2.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Anne, when Antech does the retest is it a T4 and free T4?


----------



## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Megora said:


> One thing I'm thinking... and this could just be whatever advice I got from MSU when I got the full panel results for Jacks back. His numbers were low and one of the theories was if the dog is under a good deal of stress that it will cause those numbers to fluctuate.
> 
> I did suspect it could be stress since Jacks is a stress-out machine (he was afraid of blowing curtains at class this past week - they were SO SCARY!). But his numbers were really low.


At the same time, being hypothyroid can cause a dog to stress out more easily too.


----------



## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Selli-Belle said:


> At the same time, being hypothyroid can cause a dog to stress out more easily too.


I'm thinking this is what Maddie has. All of the sudden she's become really stressing about training and just doesn't even want to play. My mom wants to wait because it could be her joints but tugging is one of her favorite things to do! I'm thinking get the blood panel done anyways and go from there. If it's not her health in the end...then we've got a seminar next weekend to get some help!


----------



## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

Joyce, make sure you mention Izzy's symptoms to Dr. Dodds when you send her Izzy's blood work. I have had at least a dozen dogs under 2 (some mine and some through my rescue) with low thyroid that needed meds. It is not an old dog disease as some would have us believe. I really think this is going to help Izzy !!!


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

jweisman54 said:


> I don't know if any of you have been following any of my threads but Izzy has been shedding excessively and is also on Prozac for her tail chasing and fur pulling. Her thyroid panel came back yesterday with the values as follows:
> 
> Total T4 1.0 ref range 1.0-4.0
> Free T4 14 ref range 8-40
> ...


A lot of Goldens need medication if they are in the low end of normal. Having Dr. Dodds look at the results is a good idea, and not expensive either.


----------



## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Anne, when Antech does the retest is it a T4 and free T4?


Toby goes in Tuesday for his semi-annual. I will ask. The name of the test on my invoices is always Thyroid Post Pill Absorption, but the nurses refer to it as a different test. There are several different tests Antech does with thyroid but this particular test is the only one the vet relies on now since he's now on continual supplementation. His senior blood panel we get 2x per year has standard T3, T4 and free T4 results in addition to all the usual blood tests in a wellness panel, but the vet disregards those in favor of this post pill test.


----------



## jweisman54 (May 22, 2010)

So, I am getting conflicting advice here.....should I use MSU or Dr. Dodds? Dr. Dodds emailed me back today suggesting that I use either her clinic or MSU. It was like moving a mountain to get my vet to agree to do the bloodwork that I would send out. They just didn't get it!!! Also, do I have to keep the blood cold when I send it.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I asked Dr Dodds that. You need to send at least 1.5 ml of serum. So the vet needs to draw and spin the blood down and separate the serum off. Then ship wrapped in bubble wrap and in a baggie. It does NOT have to be refrigerated and is stable for 10 days according to her. Also, I don't believe an individual can send to MSU like you can with Dr Dodds.


----------



## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Dr. Dodds read Gunner's results from MSU and said because he was low normal he needed to be supplemented. I didn't see any symptoms before but I saw a big change after he started on meds!! More energy, better coat etc.


----------



## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

I send my blood (my pet's blood to Dr. Dodds through Antech. Did you tell her that's who has already done Izzy's test? I am thinking she can just read those results. I believe she is in India right now, but is stilll answering her e-mails.


----------



## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

When I needed advice from Dr. Dodds I just sent her the lab results I already had done. She was able to give me a recommendation based on those tests. The biggest problem I had was my vet at the time did not agree with her that Beau was hypothyroid, though he had plenty of symptoms and was "low normal". 
So 6 months later I had the tests redone and the results were completely abnormal and my vet agreed that Beau needed thyroid supplementation. It really bothered me that poor Beau could have been treated a lot sooner if I could have convinced my vet to write a prescription. Dr. Dodds does not prescribe she only makes recommendations, at least that was the case then. I don't know if that has changed.


----------



## Allan's Girl (Apr 16, 2009)

I too had a bit of a problem getting my vet to understand why I didn't want to use their lab, but they spun then blood and even gave me a little ice pack (i am having complete blood work done along with thyroid panel) They wouldn't ship it for me bur I just ran it down to the post office and express mailed it to Dr. Dodds. I hope to hear something back on Monday. Claire's friend recommended Dr. Dodds and hemopet last year. I wish I would have listened to her then.


----------



## wicamnca (Oct 12, 2008)

Please keep us updated on what happens. My dog also recently was tested through Antech and her results were very similar:

T4: 1.3
Free T4 13.8
TSH 0.05

The dermatologist said she was normal. I took her to another vet for a second opinion and even though he agreed that it was low normal, he didn't want to put her on any supplementation because she doesn't show any of the classic symptoms. Meanwhile she has horrible allergies which causes her paw pads to fall apart (the tests show she is allergic to grass among a lot of other things). I don't want to pin all my hopes on the thyroid meds fixing all her allergy issues, but if it really can (or at least help) why won't the vets give it a try?


----------



## jweisman54 (May 22, 2010)

I just came back from the vet, had blood drawn and sent the serum off to Dr. Dodds. We will see what she has to say. Total T4 at 1.0 is way too low for a golden. I am thinking she will be on meds soon.


----------



## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

jweisman54 said:


> I just came back from the vet, had blood drawn and sent the serum off to Dr. Dodds. We will see what she has to say. Total T4 at 1.0 is way too low for a golden. I am thinking she will be on meds soon.


Did you do a full panel and not just T4?

Vito was diagnosed hypothyroid under 2 years of age. It happens often, especially in goldens.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

jweisman54 said:


> I just came back from the vet, had blood drawn and sent the serum off to Dr. Dodds. We will see what she has to say. Total T4 at 1.0 is way too low for a golden. I am thinking she will be on meds soon.


Keep us posted as to what you hear. We're getting the girls drawn Monday am.


----------



## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

I'm not sure if anybody lives in northern Illinois, but I just thought I'd pass some information on about a seminar Dr. Dodds is giving at our local club. She is coming for a two day seminar on August 6 and 7, 2011. Seminar is hosted by Stone City Kennel Club. If anyone needs more information i can provide it.

Donna


----------



## jweisman54 (May 22, 2010)

Yes doing a full panel including antibody! Wish I lived in the mid west to see her.


----------



## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Maybe I read Dr. Dodds wrong, but I think she states in her book that she doesn't diagnose hypothyroidism based on T4 alone, but really looks at the free T4 and the TgAA. Betty, did I read her wrong?


----------



## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

By the way, Dr. Dodds new book called The Canine Thyroid Epidemic is very interesting and is recommended reading for any owner with a thyroid dog. She explains the tests and results. I don't understand all of it, but it did help me interpret Toby's initial MSU thyroid panel! She also gives information on foods that might interfere with thyroid function (including soy and artificial preservatives in many commercial dog foods). She also included some photos showing signs of hypothyroidism, including before and after shots. One of the skin lesions she photographed on a dog were the exact same lesions I saw on my first Golden months before he was diagnosed! 

The book is available on Amazon for $20+ or - some cents.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Dallas Gold said:


> Maybe I read Dr. Dodds wrong, but I think she states in her book that she doesn't diagnose hypothyroidism based on T4 alone, but really looks at the free T4 and the TgAA. Betty, did I read her wrong?


 
Yes, in fact from what I remember she says that many are OVER diagnosed hypothyroid on just T4 alone. She recommends T4, free T4, T3, free T3, and the antibodies. I think she calls this grouping the Thyroid 5.


----------



## jweisman54 (May 22, 2010)

Yes that is what the grouping is called. My local vet only did the total T4, T4 and TsH which does not give an accurate enough picture.


----------



## vrmueller (Jun 14, 2008)

Ruby was diagnosed with autoimmune thyroiditis last September by Dr. Dodds. I had my vet's office draw the blood and I shipped it off myself. It did not need a coldpack. I heard from her personally within 2 days of them receiving the sample. Ruby had just turned 3 years old and her symptoms were digestive issues, severe allergies and she was just plain neurotic. She by no means had a weight problem and she was never lethargic. Ruby began taking Soloxine 2 times a day and in between that time her dosage has changed twice. Alongwith, a change in her food, the only improvement has been her digestion. Her allergies are still severe and she is still neurotic. These symptoms have been with her since she was a puppy and got worse as she has gotten older. She never had classic hypothyroid symptoms. Had I even known about this earlier, we may have been able to stop some of the damage that has been done to her system.


----------



## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

jweisman54 said:


> Yes that is what the grouping is called. My local vet only did the total T4, T4 and TsH which does not give an accurate enough picture.


Perfect! Let us know when you get the results.


----------



## jweisman54 (May 22, 2010)

I am wondering if Izzy's OCD issue is related to the low thyroid levels that she has. She is currently taking prozac which has really not kicked in yet.....only been on it for a month.


----------



## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

I asked the experts at our local GR club today and they agree that low normal is too low for a Golden, and think Dr Dodds is tops.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

It seems many of the breed people are really on board and a good sum of the vets I've heard of think she's a little whacko. That's where being our dog's advocate comes into play. I simply asked my vet if he'd draw the blood and spin it for me and I'll do the rest... no asking permission, simply that I thought this was important.


----------



## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

jweisman54 said:


> I am wondering if Izzy's OCD issue is related to the low thyroid levels that she has. She is currently taking prozac which has really not kicked in yet.....only been on it for a month.


If you start her on thyroid supplementation I will be very interested to hear if it does help those issues.


----------



## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> It seems many of the breed people are really on board and a good sum of the vets I've heard of think she's a little whacko. That's where being our dog's advocate comes into play. I simply asked my vet if he'd draw the blood and spin it for me and I'll do the rest... no asking permission, simply that I thought this was important.


That's definitely the assessment of the veterinary clinic we use (but there was an "incident" with a patient as well that really cemented the distrust and I totally understand and agree with the clinic's position on that incident). Despite all of that she knows her stuff and I'm in turn learning a lot from reading her book. I recommend this book to anyone who thinks or knows their dog has hypothyroid issues. It's got a good discussion on symptoms, reading and interpreting test results and maintenance, in addition to discussion how foods and additives can affect thyroid levels. After reading about how certain foods affect the thyroid gland I ran to Toby's food bag to reassure myself it didn't contain soy, BHT and BHA!


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

We got the girls' results from Dr Dodds just now. Maggie is VERY low and Penny came back normal.

Here are Maggie's results:

T4 .7 (range .8 - 3.8)

free T4 .49 (range .55 - 2.32)

T3 18 (range 30 -70)

free T3 1.4 (range 1.6-3.5)

TgAA was normal. Oh, and it shows all values were rechecked!

She recommends soloxine .4 mg bid and retesting in 6-8 wks.

And this is a dog with minimal symptoms! Wowzers. Needless to say, I'm calling the vet first thing in the am to get meds.


----------



## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> We got the girls' results from Dr Dodds just now. Maggie is VERY low and Penny came back normal.
> 
> Here are Maggie's results:
> 
> ...


I'm glad you got these tests! She did have that hot spot recently so she did exhibit that as a symptom. 

How much does Maggie weigh to get to the .4mg bid? We are currently re-evaluating Toby's supplementation levels so I'm curious.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Dallas Gold said:


> I'm glad you got these tests! She did have that hot spot recently so she did exhibit that as a symptom.
> 
> How much does Maggie weigh to get to the .4mg bid? We are currently re-evaluating Toby's supplementation levels so I'm curious.


 
Anne, Maggie weighed in at 62.7 lbs.


----------



## jweisman54 (May 22, 2010)

Good news...............

Dr. Dodds just emailed Izzy's results. Although her Total T4 is a bit low, everything else is very normal.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Yea for Izzy!!! Penny came back normal too, Maggie is very low.


----------



## jweisman54 (May 22, 2010)

Yeah, I saw that. I must say that I was impressed with the quickness of the results.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Me too. I sent ours UPS on Monday and it was delivered Wed am. My biggest hassle was at UPS.... 3 separate people had to call their haz mat office. First they had me do it ( how smart is that) and the woman told me that serum is not regulated in any way and does not even have to be noted. Of course, then the supervisor said that the customer can't be the one calling (duh!) and then the clerk , then supervisor had to hear it herself.


----------



## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

Good news is always welcome.


----------

