# Vegan Diets for Dogs....



## maggiesmommy (Feb 23, 2010)

Wow..not good. Dogs are carnivores! They should not be forced into whatever diet its owner chooses.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Ditto. I'm a vegan but there's no way I'd put any dog on a vegan diet. Ranger does best on his raw meat diet...and he'll continue to eat that way. Even if I feel hypocritical buying 30 lbs of raw meat every few weeks.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Ranger said:


> Ditto. I'm a vegan but there's no way I'd put any dog on a vegan diet. Ranger does best on his raw meat diet...and he'll continue to eat that way. Even if I feel hypocritical buying 30 lbs of raw meat every few weeks.


I personally do not think humans living on a vegan diet is healthy. Any person that I have ever met that was eating a vegan diet were rail thin and looked like they were knocking on deaths door. Took dozens of supplements to make their diet balanced. 

Maybe they were doing it wrong? I dunno but seeing those friends/relatives like that turned me off that type of diet all together. Personally, I would die without meat...


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

That diet is not much different than many of the foods from Earthborn, Fromm and Nutrisource, and several others.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

WasChampionFan said:


> That diet is not much different than many of the foods from Earthborn, Fromm and Nutrisource, and several others.


Yes except the absence of MEAT


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

I feed 1/2 cup Earthborn a day and it has lots of great fruits veggies and meat. I also feed 1 cup of Grandma Lucy's a day to give the next best thing to raw for me. Both have meat which dogs need. 


Sent from my iPod touch using PG Free


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

A1Malinois said:


> Yes except the absence of MEAT


Not really actually. When you see "pea protein", "potato protein", "pea fiber" and/or "pea starch", there is much less meat than you think.

Animal protein meals are 50 - 65% protein but "pea protein" is about 90% protein, so with simple math you can easily see how "vegan" some very fancy foods can be, without you knowing.

The real "fillers" are these, not things like rice or corn.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

WasChampionFan said:


> Not really actually. When you see "pea protein", "potato protein", "pea fiber" and/or "pea starch", there is much less meat than you think.
> 
> Animal protein meals are 50 - 65% protein but "pea protein" is about 90% protein, so with simple math you can easily see how "vegan" some very fancy foods can be, without you knowing.
> 
> The real "fillers" are these, not things like rice or corn.


Right...forgot you were the expert :doh: Annamaet uses brown rice, millet, rolled oats, pearled barley, brewers yeast and flax seed. In fact those make up the majority of their one formula....


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

A1Malinois said:


> Right...forgot you were the expert :doh: Annamaet uses brown rice, millet, rolled oats, pearled barley, brewers yeast and flax seed. In fact those make up the majority of their one formula....


You don't have a clue. Seriously. 

I will give you a little help. let's say you have a food with 25-30% protein and rice is about 3% total protein, how much rice needs to be in the food to reach 25-30%.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

WasChampionFan, do you try to be rude or does it come naturally. Evey post I read of yours makes having a discussion with you difficult. If you are an authority on food, ie have a degree in animal nutrition great, maybe you do know what you are talking about, but you have a bad way of expressing yourself.

I personally do a lot of research into what I feed my dogs and since they have all lived to 15 so far, I think I must be doing something right.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Tayla's Mom said:


> WasChampionFan, do you try to be rude or does it come naturally. Evey post I read of yours makes having a discussion with you difficult. If you are an authority on food, ie have a degree in animal nutrition great, maybe you do know what you are talking about, but you have a bad way of expressing yourself.
> 
> I personally do a lot of research into what I feed my dogs and since they have all lived to 15 so far, I think I must be doing something right.


I give you facts. If you don't like them, don't read them. I don't mean to be rude, but for some, facts hurt I guess.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

Doesn't hurt me in the least. I use a lot of different sources to check on food quality. I just find your posts to be delivered in such as way as to provoke people instead of pursuading them or inviting conversation. I am curious as to what you feed your dogs.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

WasChampionFan said:


> I give you facts. If you don't like them, don't read them. I don't mean to be rude, but for some, facts hurt I guess.


Nah, you give the facts as _you_ see them - and make it clear you think everyone else is a clueless idiot if they don't agree with your view. It doesn't hurt me in the least. Just makes me roll my eyes.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

A1Malinois said:


> I personally do not think humans living on a vegan diet is healthy. Any person that I have ever met that was eating a vegan diet were rail thin and looked like they were knocking on deaths door. Took dozens of supplements to make their diet balanced.
> 
> Maybe they were doing it wrong? I dunno but seeing those friends/relatives like that turned me off that type of diet all together. Personally, I would die without meat...


Your response to my post is completely off topic. You were talking about a vegan diet for DOGS and I responded as such. Your post in response to mine was about PEOPLE being vegans which wasn't the issue at hand. 

And just because you've seen people not doing it correctly doesn't mean a vegan diet isn't healthy, despite what you 'personally think'. I'm not going to get into here but just because a person claims to be 'vegan' and doesn't eat meat or dairy, doesn't mean that they are vegan. I know some people who live on soy lattes, chips, and french fries who consider themselves 'vegan'. No, they're a junk food eater who doesn't eat meat or dairy, not a proper vegan. 

Anyway, you can keep your stereotype of vegans being unhealthy, gray and sickly looking to yourself as this thread was about a vegan diet for dogs, not for people.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

WasChampionFan said:


> You don't have a clue. Seriously.
> 
> I will give you a little help. let's say you have a food with 25-30% protein and rice is about 3% total protein, how much rice needs to be in the food to reach 25-30%.


The whole point in this thread is there is no MEAT in that Vegan formula. Dogs need meat..period. Dogs have no use for grains IMO

You have yet to post any credentials that you have other then you own dogs that live outside...


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Tayla's Mom said:


> WasChampionFan, do you try to be rude or does it come naturally. Evey post I read of yours makes having a discussion with you difficult. If you are an authority on food, ie have a degree in animal nutrition great, maybe you do know what you are talking about, but you have a bad way of expressing yourself.
> 
> I personally do a lot of research into what I feed my dogs and since they have all lived to 15 so far, I think I must be doing something right.


I think its both. He was banned once before here and hes on MANY other dog forums where he spews the same crap about how Champion pet foods is horrible. Often times under different usernames but your style of writing doesnt change. He recommends Dr Tims and Annameat foods which are loaded with filler....Yum!



Ranger said:


> Your response to my post is completely off topic. You were talking about a vegan diet for DOGS and I responded as such. Your post in response to mine was about PEOPLE being vegans which wasn't the issue at hand.
> 
> And just because you've seen people not doing it correctly doesn't mean a vegan diet isn't healthy, despite what you 'personally think'. I'm not going to get into here but just because a person claims to be 'vegan' and doesn't eat meat or dairy, doesn't mean that they are vegan. I know some people who live on soy lattes, chips, and french fries who consider themselves 'vegan'. No, they're a junk food eater who doesn't eat meat or dairy, not a proper vegan.
> 
> Anyway, you can keep your stereotype of vegans being unhealthy, gray and sickly looking to yourself as this thread was about a vegan diet for dogs, not for people.


Holy *&^% Ranger! My intentions were not to be rude at all. I asked you a simple question since were on the topic of vegans. It was an honest and true question. I offered you the chance to explain a bit better what types of things are involved in a vegan diet since all I was exposed to was improper vegan diets (maybe they were proper I dont know)


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

WasChampionFan said:


> Not really actually. When you see "pea protein", "potato protein", "pea fiber" and/or "pea starch", there is much less meat than you think.
> 
> Animal protein meals are 50 - 65% protein but "pea protein" is about 90% protein, so with simple math you can easily see how "vegan" some very fancy foods can be, without you knowing.
> 
> The real "fillers" are these, not things like rice or corn.


Pea/potato fibers and starches add to the carb levels, while pea/potato proteins are essentially the grain free protein enhancing counterparts of corn gluten meal and rice protein concentrates. Not saying that's good or bad, but the different perceptions of each is interesting.


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## bowdense (Feb 22, 2011)

A1Malinois said:


> I personally do not think humans living on a vegan diet is healthy. Any person that I have ever met that was eating a vegan diet were rail thin and looked like they were knocking on deaths door. Took dozens of supplements to make their diet balanced.
> 
> Maybe they were doing it wrong? I dunno but seeing those friends/relatives like that turned me off that type of diet all together. Personally, I would die without meat...


You can eat a vegan diet and be very healthy. It's hard and you have to know what you are doing or you will look like you describe. My daughter has been a vegetarian since age 5. At age 16, she developed an anaphylactic food allergy to dairy. So, besides eggs (which she doesn't like but will eat in things), she is pretty much vegan. I have her bloodwork done twice a year and the doctors can't believe how healthy and strong she is. She also works out a lot. The rest of our family eats meat and dairy occasionally. There are many health benefits to a meat-free diet for humans.

As far as dogs, they are carnivores. They need meat. I do not agree with veganism for them at all.


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

Tayla's Mom said:


> Both have meat which dogs need.


Technically, dogs are not true carnivores and can survive without meat. In fact, true elimination diets are sometimes formulated without meat protein initially and some dogs are actually found to not be able to tolerate any meat protein at all. 

However, while it's possible and even necessary in select cases, the dog's design and nutrient requirements certainly suggest the suitability of meat in their diet. Ideally, vegan dog foods would be by prescription only/used solely for aforementioned select cases and not marketed to anthropomorphism in feeding of the general dog population.


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## bowdense (Feb 22, 2011)

Garfield said:


> Technically, dogs are not true carnivores and can survive without meat. In fact, true elimination diets are sometimes formulated without meat protein initially and some dogs are actually found to not be able to tolerate any meat protein at all.
> 
> However, while it's possible and even necessary in select cases, the dog's design and nutrient requirements certainly suggest the suitability of meat in their diet. Ideally, vegan dog foods would be by prescription only/used solely for aforementioned select cases and not marketed to anthropomorphism in feeding of the general dog population.


That makes sense. I didn't know that. Thanks.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Garfield said:


> Technically, dogs are not true carnivores and can survive without meat. In fact, true elimination diets are sometimes formulated without meat protein initially and some dogs are actually found to not be able to tolerate any meat protein at all.
> 
> However, while it's possible and even necessary in select cases, the dog's design and nutrient requirements certainly suggest the suitability of meat in their diet. Ideally, vegan dog foods would be by prescription only/used solely for aforementioned select cases and not marketed to anthropomorphism in feeding of the general dog population.


Dogs are anatomically carnivore. Sure, they can survive on a omnivore diet. Im not saying they cant. But, in the wild wolves eat meat and only eat other stuff when meat is hard to find. I would eat anything to to keep my body alive. Dogs have sharp teeth meant for ripping meat and crushing bone...not for flattening carrots and corn. Humans are Omnivores. We have a longer digestive tract then dogs do. 

In any science text book it will say dogs are anatomically carnivores.


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## aerolor (May 27, 2011)

A1Malinois said:


> Dogs are anatomically carnivore. Sure, they can survive on a omnivore diet. Im not saying they cant. But, in the wild wolves eat meat and only eat other stuff when meat is hard to find. I would eat anything to to keep my body alive. Dogs have sharp teeth meant for ripping meat and crushing bone...not for flattening carrots and corn. Humans are Omnivores. We have a longer digestive tract then dogs do.
> 
> In any science text book it will say dogs are anatomically carnivores.


:appl::appl::appl: Thank goodness for common sense.


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

A1Malinois said:


> Dogs are anatomically carnivore. Sure, they can survive on a omnivore diet. Im not saying they cant. But, in the wild wolves eat meat and only eat other stuff when meat is hard to find. I would eat anything to to keep my body alive. Dogs have sharp teeth meant for ripping meat and crushing bone...not for flattening carrots and corn. Humans are Omnivores. We have a longer digestive tract then dogs do.
> 
> In any science text book it will say dogs are anatomically carnivores.


First, a dog is not genetically identical to a wolf. Secondly, as I noted, the design of the dog is suitable to a meat inclusive diet, though it does not change the fact that dogs are scientifically categorized as non-obligate carnivores are indeed capable of surviving without meat. Thirdly, I still don't advocate a long term vegan diet for them unless medically necessary.


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