# Anyone use a Manner's Minder?



## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

I got a really good deal on a Manner's Minder at the last vet conference I went to. So good that the thing has been sitting in it's box for 3 months. I bought it because I'd heard rumors that some people use it for some parts of agility training. Has anyone here ever used one?

I finally got it out of the box tonight and actually found 4 "D" batteries (I was prepared to empty flash lights, but I actually had 4 new batteries!). Piper is already in love with it, but what self-respecting golden wouldn't love something that gave her treats? 

My plan is to use it while teaching 2X2 weaves. I started teaching 2X2 last week and have been making progress, but of course I don't have time for 3 sessions a day, I'm lucky to get one session. So progress has been fairly slow. If you've never done 2X2 before, there is supposed to be a "reward line" which is basically a straight line through the poles that your dog is supposed to take. That's all well and good, but one is supposed to be able to throw a toy on this line consistantly, so the dog understands the direction they are supposed to go. Needless to say, my dogs feel this line is a bit ambiguous. I'm sure it's because I never manage to throw the toy in the same place twice. I also have some problems getting the timing just right-I either throw too late and the dog looks at me or I throw too early and the dog then ends up not actually finishing the behavior I just rewarded. I have only managed to hit my dog with the toy once during this training! So brilliant trainer that I am, I've decided to see what happens using the MM. I'm going to set it up on the reward line, hoping that having a "target" out there will make the reward line more obvious. Plus I think I can manage to push a button in a more timely fashion that throwing a toy. I do plan to still carry a toy with me so that I can call the dog back for a little tug between reps.

I'm also planning to go through Susan Salo's jumping program with Piper as I think she really needs to learn to jump properly to keep those elbows as happy as possible. When I was playing around with this program with Ruby, I had some issues with using a toy as a target at the end of the jump chute. Ruby was far too fast for me to be able to grab the toy before she got to it after a mistake. But you need the target because you're trying to teach the dog to not focus on you, but what's in front of them. I think the MM will work really well here too.

Any other uses you can think of? I know some people use it for contact training, but I'm a bit at a loss of how they do it.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

I know people who have them, but mostly for crate training or teaching laying on a mat or something. I would love to have one! I have not heard about it used for agility, I guess you could use also use it on the table? Good luck with the weave and jump training.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

I have one and have LOVED it!

I didn't find it very useful for 2x2 training or contact training (positioned 10-15' out for running or near the end for 2o2o). I didn't feel like it dispensed fast enough...it felt like there was a delay between the button press and the food being released. Others have told me that i'm probably imagining it.

Great idea for using it with the Salo jumping exercises! And really...I might take mine to use at class when we're doing that or 2x2 work...sometimes students don't have a helper come with them and would benefit from the extra 'help' of the MM.

I've used it for crating, long duration informal stays, introducing obedience long stays. 

It definitely has a place in agility for distance work when its' difficult for someone to reinforce in a good position or timely way. 

I might have to dust mine off and do some more work. If you go through periods where you won't be using it often...take the batteries out of the remote. I've had to replace those way more than in the unit!


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

RedDogs said:


> I didn't feel like it dispensed fast enough...it felt like there was a delay between the button press and the food being released. Others have told me that i'm probably imagining it.


I think there is a slight delay too, but I'm not too worried about it. My guys are clickered trained and I'm viewing this as basically a clicker. The beep comes immediately when I push the button and that will mark the behavior. Then they know the treat is coming.

Using it for contacts: I teach 2o2o. Would you use it in place of a target at the base of the obstacle?


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

I often feel like one of the only clicker trainers that REALLY dislikes targeting. 

We don't typically use a target for teaching a 2o2o (and NEVER the "cookies on a target" lure!). But when I have tried it for a 2o2o, I placed the machine at the base of the obstacle, somewhat sideways (so the "back" is to the side of the obstacle but the plate is about in the right spot to be reached).... we do a lot of 'get into position and get reinforcement while I move around." 

Mine sure seemed like the beep was delayed... at times I would click and then use the dispense-without-a-beep button on the remote, but I wasn't good enough to use both remotes at once and I didn't try to get better at it.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Actually I'll add in.. placement of the MM depends on the lesson.

For early training, yes at the base of the obstacle.
For teaching to remain in the position while handler moves or distractions happen, it's at the base.
For teaching a good release it's 5-10+ feet out (and I lure/collar transport the dog into the 2o2o).
For teaching to get into position and stick when tempted...it's 5-10+ feet out (we do this after the dog is good at the above parts).


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I've never used one before, but what about using it for the drop on recall? You could set it up behind the dog, and when the dog drops release him to get his reward behind him.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

Good one. Hadn't thought too much about obedience applications yet (see my other thread about only being able to work on one sport at a time!).


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

I never heard of this before Now I want one. Don't know if I should put it on my Christmas list or just go get it because I want to use it NOW


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

I joined the treatntrain yahoo group, now I want to get a couple more!

Use one for start line stays. I remember watching a Susan Garrett dvd (I think), maybe Sucess with One Jump where she showed a clip from one of her seminars. She was pretty disappointed in the group's stays at the line. She went on and on about the need to reinforce the stay very, very often (like 1/2 the time if I remember correctly). Well, I'm lazy and I just don't see myself walking back from a three jump lead out to reward the sit on a regular basis. I can see myself pushing a button and having the MM reward the dog (probably behind the dog). I'm pretty sure I can then get my dog to sit again in decent position to start the run.

One person on the TnT group used two when teaching contacts (one off to either side) and used a target the dog touched before rewarding from random sides. She thought this helped the dog learn "straight" better. I don't think I'm going to use this method (I'll start with the MM directly in front, then move it farther away but still straight in front to reinforce "straight"), but it did make me think about using a different target sometimes vs. having the MM always be the target. I am strongly considering using a target now for contact training. I think I'm going to use a paw target though rather than the somewhat popular nose target. With Piper's elbows being rather questionable, I'm afraid that using a nose target would encourage her to shift her weight forward. I'd like to teach her to put her paws on the target and rock back. In the long run I think I will be able to train a solid 2o2o faster and with less repetition than a running contact, decreasing the strain on her front end. Plus my dogs are fast and I'm most definitely NOT, so a good 2o2o lets me catch up!

I'd like to have a couple to play with obstacle distrimination and for working "out" and "here" and "turn". "Go" might be easier. Definitely would help with distance training for FAST sends.

I was playing around with it last night and think I'll use it for utility signals too, much like for the drop on recall Jodie suggested. Ruby is pretty darn good for the stand (although she does rarely creep), the drop is almost always very good, but she does miss her sit more than I would like. With the MM behind her last night, I used it to reward her for doing the sit signal (and randomly for dropping/staying in the drop and for standing/staying in the stand). She was way excited about doing the excerise. I hope that using it for awhile will then make it into a strong habit that I just have to maintain.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

So I had this great idea for using that thing (which I had to look up, lol I try not to be a big cookie/clicker trainer). I had issues with Scout confusing her left- and right-back casts so I decided to simplify. I took a clicker and in the house started just clicking to mark a correct turn for each back cast. I think using a manner's minder setup behind the dog then clicking for the correct turn and having the dog run out to get the treat would be a great way to teach clearly the basic idea of those casts. It would be especially good for teaching little puppies (the funnest to train) and dogs that are not solid on retrieve yet.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I was doing signals with Flip last night and thought it could be nice to use one for that also. He still sometimes tries to sit by moving his butt up instead of moving feet back. Having the reward behind him would encourage backward moving thoughts.


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