# 1 Year Old Male Golden Showing Aggression in his "Home" Dog Group



## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Bumping up


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

He's a year old and hormones are kicking in. 

Dogs are not human kids - they do not need to have "play dates" with other dogs.


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## Ilovegoldens123 (May 12, 2021)

My golden was dog selective


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

First point: When you have a group of dogs, don't give them toys or stuff they might guard. It's literally asking for trouble.

Second point: Since what you perceive as 'vicious growling' happens at the end of the session, it may be your dog signalling that he's fed up with the other dogs. Contrary to popular belief, some dogs actually don't like group encounters like this. A group encounter can be a very stressful thing for a dog, especially where (as seems to be the case here) the humans who are supposed to be in charge are basically clueless. It's surprising that there hasn't already been a serious incident. Now that your dog is maturing and is clearly showing that he doesn't like these encounters, my advice would be to stop them.

Third point: As Megora said, dogs don't need "play dates" with other dogs. What they need is one-on-one time with their humans. If you want to be part of a group of dog-owning humans, try some kind of training activity: obedience, agility, dock diving, whatever. This will build your relationship with your dog and bring you into contact with other dog owners in a structured setting, where the focus is on the dog-human relationship. The problem with spending so much time in unstructured "play groups" is that your dog isn't bonding with you during that time. You actually say in your post that he seems to enjoy playing 'fetch' with you more than he enjoys the group dog play. IMHO you should listen to him.

Fourth point: You say your trainer is going to address resource guarding. Is your dog guarding things from you, or only from other dogs? If he's only guarding when he's with other dogs, this doesn't need addressing. It's natural behaviour and the way to stop it is simply to remove all toys and guardable objects when your dog is playing with another dog. More important IMHO would be for the human members of the family to learn more about dog behaviour and different types of growls. During play, growling doesn't necessarily signal aggression.

I mostly spend one-on-one time with my dog (a 5-year-old intact male), but we do go for group walks on the local off-leash trails, with small groups of carefully chosen, well-trained dogs that we know well. My dog is usually pleased to see the other dogs, but during the walk he barely interacts with them at all. He's off doing his own thing, exploring, sniffing, running back to me from time to time, but basically ignoring the other dogs. He enjoys our solitary walks just as much, if not more. His favourite activities of all are our agility and obedience training sessions. If I were to cut out the group walks altogether, he wouldn't miss them, but he would definitely miss our training classes.

From your post, it seems that your dog is telling you that he's becoming uncomfortable with the group play.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

I've had experience with multiple family dog situations for over 30 years and pretty practiced at watching my dogs and have educated myself on canine body language etc. and honestly I still have trouble recognizing when the dynamic changes - (we just brought my adult daughter's puppy home a couple weeks ago, so I've been more focused lately). I do believe that dogs do develop 'friendships' and have other dogs they like better than others. In my experience that is likely to happen in a smaller one on one setting over time rather than in a large, public free for all - a lot of dogs are not cut out for that dynamic and it only takes one to ruin it for everyone - which dog is actually the problem is not always evident.

When I think of the more confident adult male dogs I know, they do not make a habit of rolling over and submitting to anyone who isn't 'family'. Your dog doesn't sound like a great fit for the large group. If your husband enjoys the camaraderie of a dog friend group, I encourage you all to find and join an AKC club for obedience, training, agility or even hunt test training. You will find a lot of educated and like minded people and it will open up SO much fun and new experiences for you and your dog. I can't recommend it enough.

In the meantime, I'd consider working intensively on obedience both on leash and off. A reminder that he is not the adult in charge will only benefit everyone involved. It also gives a better foundation for any other sport or activity you'd like to try and there are so many available that you all might enjoy. The training for these things will only strengthen your relationship with your dog and build his confidence and yours. If you want to try to have some one on one meet ups with a dog that you know is a good fit for him under close supervision you could give it a go after you've worked on obedience for a while. Involving a trainer is an excellent use of money, I now it's not cheap but it's the best thing to do.


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## AmyPat (Jun 29, 2020)

Megora said:


> He's a year old and hormones are kicking in.
> 
> Dogs are not human kids - they do not need to have "play dates" with other dogs.


Yes...thank you...learned that piece and have pulled back from the puppy play dates a week ago...


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## AmyPat (Jun 29, 2020)

ceegee said:


> First point: When you have a group of dogs, don't give them toys or stuff they might guard. It's literally asking for trouble.
> 
> Second point: Since what you perceive as 'vicious growling' happens at the end of the session, it may be your dog signalling that he's fed up of the other dogs. Contrary to popular believe, some dogs actually don't like group encounters like this. A group encounter can be a very stressful thing for a dog, especially where (as seems to be the case here) the humans who are supposed to be in charge are basically clueless. It's surprising that there hasn't already been a serious incident. Now that your dog is maturing and is clearly showing that he doesn't like these encounters, my advice would be to stop them.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your well-thought out response--I appreciate your time. Yes--we are "listening" to him in every way and educating ourselves too. I have raised many pets and trained a few dogs in my time...even had a Golden prior. I never trained a Golden from 2 mos. old though--and also--looking back--did spend a lot of 1 v 1 time with my pups vs dog socials (seems more popular now). I think you are right, too, he was becoming uncomfortable and more solo in the play group--we heeded his input. He is resource guarding a little bit with us (balls or the occasinal item he finds and puts in his mouth)--but, its lessening the longer we are away from the group (I believe).

Just re-read everything--I think he would LOVE some hunt-and-find activities...I love this idea!


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## AmyPat (Jun 29, 2020)

nolefan said:


> I've had experience with multiple family dog situations for over 30 years and pretty practiced at watching my dogs and have educated myself on canine body language etc. and honestly I still have trouble recognizing when the dynamic changes - (we just brought my adult daughter's puppy home a couple weeks ago, so I've been more focused lately). I do believe that dogs do develop 'friendships' and have other dogs they like better than others. In my experience that is likely to happen in a smaller one on one setting over time rather than in a large, public free for all - a lot of dogs are not cut out for that dynamic and it only takes one to ruin it for everyone - which dog is actually the problem is not always evident.
> 
> When I think of the more confident adult male dogs I know, they do not make a habit of rolling over and submitting to anyone who isn't 'family'. Your dog doesn't sound like a great fit for the large group. If your husband enjoys the camaraderie of a dog friend group, I encourage you all to find and join an AKC club for obedience, training, agility or even hunt test training. You will find a lot of educated and like minded people and it will open up SO much fun and new experiences for you and your dog. I can't recommend it enough.
> 
> In the meantime, I'd consider working intensively on obedience both on leash and off. A reminder that he is not the adult in charge will only benefit everyone involved. It also gives a better foundation for any other sport or activity you'd like to try and there are so many available that you all might enjoy. The training for these things will only strengthen your relationship with your dog and build his confidence and yours. If you want to try to have some one on one meet ups with a dog that you know is a good fit for him under close supervision you could give it a go after you've worked on obedience for a while. Involving a trainer is an excellent use of money, I now it's not cheap but it's the best thing to do.


Thank you for your post and the effort you put in. We do not believe in "large, public free for alls" either--and as I mentioned in my post--it's not a dog park--but rather a few neighbors who get together with their dogs. Never go to dog parks b/c I don't trust the other pet owners--and usually way too many. I like the idea of looking into the AKC club for some solutions--we have an excellent long time trainer lined up--and they do some of these things. I will continue to research though. Yes--intense leash training starting Saturday at 3 p.m.  I appreciate your words! We are willing to invest--we love this boy more than anything. We may have stumbled with the dog group--but, he is still very loving and wonderful--just needs a little re-direct.

One mention regarding the roll-over piece--it was more when he was a puppy...and not something he has done in the dog group over the last month or two--which is why there was some reaction I believe. He would always jump up and play more (why we never thought it was an issue) He did do it yesterday, as I mentioned to the neighbor's dog--who was very snippy and aggressive to him when he was a pup--(she is an older dog)--I was surprised he did it...but wondered: Do dogs have a memory? With new dogs--all equal.


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## AmyPat (Jun 29, 2020)

Megora said:


> He's a year old and hormones are kicking in.
> 
> Dogs are not human kids - they do not need to have "play dates" with other dogs.


Thank you for your input!


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## AmyPat (Jun 29, 2020)

Megora said:


> He's a year old and hormones are kicking in.
> 
> Dogs are not human kids - they do not need to have "play dates" with other dogs.


Thank you for your input!


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## sigan7 (Oct 8, 2020)

I don't know if I agree with the "play dates" thing. If your dog enjoys interacting with other dogs then I don't see a problem with it. Seems like opinions are being stated as if they were facts. They aren't facts, just preferences of your particular dog.

My golden is approaching 2 yrs and he still loves playing with dogs. I send him to doggie day care 1x a week to have fun. That doesn't mean his bond with me is any less. But not everything needs to be about me. He can entertain himself alone, he can entertain himself with other dogs. People bad mouth dog parks all the time but I've had nothing but good experiences at them. Fights and aggression break out when a dog who doesn't want to be there is there. So the key to all of this is to read your dog. Does he want to be there? Does he look like he's having fun?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

sigan7 said:


> Seems like opinions are being stated as if they were facts. They aren't facts, just preferences of your particular dog.


And seems like people can't get it into their heads that dogs are dogs. They are not kids. They do not think like people. 

Fights break out because dogs are dogs. It's not about a dog "not wanting to be there and just having a rough time". LOLOL. 

If you want your dog to have fun, you would be better off getting a second dog and providing your dog with a stable dog pack.


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## AmyPat (Jun 29, 2020)

sigan7 said:


> I don't know if I agree with the "play dates" thing. If your dog enjoys interacting with other dogs then I don't see a problem with it. Seems like opinions are being stated as if they were facts. They aren't facts, just preferences of your particular dog.
> 
> My golden is approaching 2 yrs and he still loves playing with dogs. I send him to doggie day care 1x a week to have fun. That doesn't mean his bond with me is any less. But not everything needs to be about me. He can entertain himself alone, he can entertain himself with other dogs. People bad mouth dog parks all the time but I've had nothing but good experiences at them. Fights and aggression break out when a dog who doesn't want to be there is there. So the key to all of this is to read your dog. Does he want to be there? Does he look like he's having fun?


Thank you so mucy for your reponse! Yes--I take all the input in--and we will navigate forward with all the info. For now, we will keep him from little 5-dog group he was hanging with until we work with this well-respected trainer (and I interviewed a few with our boy Mavs). He has been around dogs 1 v 1 and loves it...again--something about that group--which is what I was trying to get feedback on--we don't have issues with all groups-or any other dog interactions, group or solo. He is social--and seems to enjoy other dog play. We will not pull that from him forever...but we are chilling off the one group as I think he has memories or feelings or dog re-call about experiences there when he was a pup. There was no fair equity play back then. Also--we think he gets over-stimulated there. Your dog sounds adorable!


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## sigan7 (Oct 8, 2020)

Most dog fights I've seen happen for 3 reasons in this order:

Poorly socialized dog who is fear-reactive
A dog who has no interest in being there being accosted by other dogs
There is some hormonal element but around here most people fix their dogs, it's minimal
I still feel like you are trying to extrapolate your personal preference as actual behavioral science. "Dogs are dogs" isn't really saying anything. I also do not agree that it is in any way superior to have multiple dogs yourself and a "pack" versus a dog having interactions with others' dogs.

Dogs playing with other dogs is a completely natural behavior seen in the wild with wolves. Sure, in the wild it's within a pack, but with dogs we've evolved well beyond the social rules of wolves. Alpha/dominance theory has been thoroughly debunked and the social structures of wolves don't really apply here.

I still say - read your dog. Mine can't wait to go back to doggie day care and I'm more than happy to let him interact with other dogs at doggie day care. I don't think anyone should be shamed into avoiding this as it is a perfectly acceptable thing to do.


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## GoldenGirlMinnie (Jan 23, 2020)

So we had something similar- a group of 5-6 dogs that would play daily in a park when Minnie was younger. My dog is very friendly and enjoyed playing, but would do the whole rolling over, crawling up to other dogs, giving up her ball at any provocation thing too. I found when she hit 18 months, she really became more vocal about what she considered appropriate play and developed a certain time limit tolerance. She started making a show of teeth and snarls in, in my opinion, a very appropriate way, to get over-exuberant dogs to back off. It wasn't every time, and the amount of patience she had varied. We pretty much stopped bringing her to play with other dogs at the park every day. She still plays with a dog here or there maybe once a week when I can tell she's in the mood, but no more big groups. I thought she was going to miss it, but she's extremely happy just going for sniffy walks now. You might be finding that your submissive boy is getting enough confidence to form preferences that he didn't have when he was younger, and what he likes to do may have changed. Minnie is still very friendly, will happily meet and greet other dogs, but no longer has any desire for regular large play groups.


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## AmyPat (Jun 29, 2020)

GoldenGirlMinnie said:


> So we had something similar- a group of 5-6 dogs that would play daily in a park when Minnie was younger. My dog is very friendly and enjoyed playing, but would do the whole rolling over, crawling up to other dogs, giving up her ball at any provocation thing too. I found when she hit 18 months, she really became more vocal about what she considered appropriate play and developed a certain time limit tolerance. She started making a show of teeth and snarls in, in my opinion, a very appropriate way, to get over-exuberant dogs to back off. It wasn't every time, and the amount of patience she had varied. We pretty much stopped bringing her to play with other dogs at the park every day. She still plays with a dog here or there maybe once a week when I can tell she's in the mood, but no more big groups. I thought she was going to miss it, but she's extremely happy just going for sniffy walks now. You might be finding that your submissive boy is getting enough confidence to form preferences that he didn't have when he was younger, and what he likes to do may have changed. Minnie is still very friendly, will happily meet and greet other dogs, but no longer has any desire for regular large play groups.


This is so helpful! I was wondering if there were any similar experience  Yes--we get him out several times a day and do a big fetch, soccer, interactive (with us) play in the evening...with several "sniffy walks" earlier--so funny. I think you are right--once he was able to stand behind what he likes/doesn't like--is when things changed up. He wasn't having massive fights...just some chase-ups, some a little more snarly and menacing than others (in short bursts). He is a teen...and has defintitely grown into a big dog. We are loving our learning path with him...and are staying tuned in to his growing personality. Minnie sounds like a fun girl!


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

sigan7 said:


> I don't know if I agree with the "play dates" thing. If your dog enjoys interacting with other dogs then I don't see a problem with it. Seems like opinions are being stated as if they were facts. They aren't facts, just preferences of your particular dog.
> 
> My golden is approaching 2 yrs and he still loves playing with dogs. I send him to doggie day care 1x a week to have fun. That doesn't mean his bond with me is any less. But not everything needs to be about me. He can entertain himself alone, he can entertain himself with other dogs. People bad mouth dog parks all the time but I've had nothing but good experiences at them. Fights and aggression break out when a dog who doesn't want to be there is there. So the key to all of this is to read your dog. Does he want to be there? Does he look like he's having fun?


It's a bit more complicated than that. Doggie day care is fine. "Play dates" are fine. Group interactions are fine. But in terms of activities, they aren't particularly enriching for either the dog or the human. They burn off steam but they don't give the dog any kind of mental stimulation or purpose. Goldens are basically working dogs. They were originally bred to do a job. The Goldens I've owned and known have all, without exception, been enthusiastic and willing partners in different "jobs", be it as agility partners, obedience partners, hunting or field partners, dock diving partners, and in sports such as scent detection and barn hunts. They love to learn and do things. Dog parks and daycare have the advantage that they don't demand much effort from the human element of the partnership, whereas any kind of activity that involves training requires a commitment of both time and effort from the human. But the payoff is immense, especially when you're working with a dog that learns as quickly and as enthusiastically as most Goldens.

As for dog parks, it's not a question of "bad-mouthing" them. They are dangerous places. If you've never witnessed or had a bad experience there, then you've been lucky. And it's not only a question of dogs that don't want to be there. Dogs that haven't learned proper greeting techniques, pushy dogs, dogs with short fuses, big dogs that haven't learned how to play with small dogs ... all these dogs are usually thrilled to be in dog parks, but they can and do cause trouble. Having your dog play regularly with groups of dogs you don't know, owned by people you don't know, is just not a good idea. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact, confirmed by countless specialists. An article that covers the subject well is this one:








The Dog Park Is Bad, Actually (Published 2020)


Dog parks may seem like great additions to the community, but they’re rife with problems — for you, and for your dog. Here’s what to know before you go.




www.nytimes.com





I would add that a lot of people are clueless about monitoring their dog's behaviour. They don't know how to read their dogs, but they take them to parks anyway. I would guess that they form the majority of the dog park clientele in general. That's why dog parks are so dangerous.

Anyway. The OP's dog seems to be sending clear signals that he's uncomfortable in the group setting, so it's probably a good idea to step back for a while and do something else.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

sigan7 said:


> Most dog fights I've seen happen for 3 reasons in this order:


They happen because of clueless owners.


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## AmyPat (Jun 29, 2020)

ceegee said:


> It's a bit more complicated than that. Doggie day care is fine. "Play dates" are fine. Group interactions are fine. But in terms of activities, they aren't particularly enriching for either the dog or the human. They burn off steam but they don't give the dog any kind of mental stimulation or purpose. Goldens are basically working dogs. They were originally bred to do a job. The Goldens I've owned and known have all, without exception, been enthusiastic and willing partners in different "jobs", be it as agility partners, obedience partners, hunting or field partners, dock diving partners, and in sports such as scent detection and barn hunts. They love to learn and do things. Dog parks and daycare have the advantage that they don't demand much effort from the human element of the partnership, whereas any kind of activity that involves training requires a commitment of both time and effort from the human. But the payoff is immense, especially when you're working with a dog that learns as quickly and as enthusiastically as most Goldens.
> 
> As for dog parks, it's not a question of "bad-mouthinlg" them. They are dangerous places. If you've never witnessed or had a bad experience there, then you've been lucky. And it's not only a question of dogs that don't want to be there. Dogs that haven't learned proper greeting techniques, pushy dogs, dogs with short fuses, big dogs that haven't learned how to play with small dogs ... all these dogs are usually thrilled to be in dog parks, but they can and do cause trouble. Having your dog play regularly with groups of dogs you don't know, owned by people you don't know, is just not a good idea. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact, confirmed by countless specialists. An article that covers the subject well is this one:
> 
> ...


Good info -- article too. Thank you for taking the time to respond. Yes--we are finding that he is equally happy to walk and play ball with us. I do feel that other owners are content to let ther dogs "be" as long as they are not getting the "short end of the stick" so to say. Maverick, for the most part, always seemed happy--but, he was the younger pup. I think learning a dog's cues is important...and for us, we could see he was overstimulated by the end of a gathering--the article references this. I love the idea of finding "jobs" for him--he is very smart and loves to engage on this level. We are on a new path with him for sure. Again--we were hanging with a small group of 4 owners/5 dogs (incld Mav)--I am also nervous about "dog parks" as you really don't know the owners. But, the article references small dog groups. We do know them--and the training each dog has had and what the owner is doing to maintain good behavior...but really--have learned that they don't know either. I appreciate all the perspectives and the info...we are listening and learning.


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