# Elbow dysplasia in a field/obedience competitor



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I'm very sorry Marie.....  

Let him dictate when he's had enough or when he can't do it anymore. There is no "no" until then. 

My Danny had terrible elbows - and this includes bone chips in the elbows. He loved going to classes and absolutely loved training with me - even when he was old. He was an even better dog for heeling and fronts and stays than my Jacks is. And when I'd be training Jacks, Danny would come barging into heel position because that was his job.  I imagine it will be the same way with Riot even when it comes to a point where you have to retire him. 

Danny's quit point came when he was Jacks' age. We were playing in agility and were even thinking about entering him in trials... but he gave a very clear communication that he was done when he went running out of the agility ring and refused to go back in. 

I told our instructor that was that and said our goodbyes then. 

He still lived a fairly active and normal life - lots of hiking. He self-regulated. We just let him be when he held back. If he had a lot of exercise one day, we kept him quiet the next day. 

This isn't the end of the road - it just means you will be handling him a little differently. Even if he can't handle the jumps in obedience, I imagine field work would still be a good idea for him. Keep him active and keep the weight off him.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

I keep coming back to this thread to say something, but I don't know what to say other than I am really sorry. I am sure you will still be able to do great things with Riot, although it may not be what you had originally planned. I have no doubt you will continue to provide Riot with a happy life, regardless of this sad news.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

Megora said:


> Let him dictate when he's had enough or when he can't do it anymore. There is no "no" until then.
> 
> He still lived a fairly active and normal life - lots of hiking. He self-regulated. We just let him be when he held back. If he had a lot of exercise one day, we kept him quiet the next day.
> 
> This isn't the end of the road - it just means you will be handling him a little differently. Even if he can't handle the jumps in obedience, I imagine field work would still be a good idea for him. Keep him active and keep the weight off him.


Thanks for this. I'm hoping that he will be able to self-regulate. I am hoping that the best is to let him do what he wants, as long as he isn't lame. I also think that I will probably have to keep him more quiet before a test or trial to make sure he is sound for them. Unfortunately, it seems that he gets lame most after field work. But I think that swimming will be really good for him. I need to find a good place to take him regularly. I might just focus on obedience, but I don't know. It feels like a lot of "wait and see." Frustrating.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

I just saw this thread and I am so sorry to read about Riot's diagnosis of ED. I do not know much about it, although I met a beautiful Golden girl last year who had undergone surgery on both elbows. She was very active like your Riot, and her owner was discouraged because of all the trouble and expense. She did tell me that the breeder had refunded the purchase price. I met the dog in obedience class, and the owner told me that the day after class, her girl limped.

I hope you can still enjoy Riot. He is the same dog, but sounds like his activity will have to be restricted some. Time will tell what you can do with him. But we get so much from our Goldens in so many ways, I am sure you and your family will get much from Riot over the coming years. Swimming is a great, low impact exercise. Our Max is a more mellow boy, but he does enjoy swimming and retrieving his ball or float.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

> Does anyone else have experience with ED in a dog they were/are competing with? Surgery isn't really an option for us. How do you manage your dog? I just have no idea what to do or where to go from here. I want my pup to be happy and healthy and pain free.


To be honest I would retire him from further competition and training for such. There is no sense causing extra wear and tear on the joint and risking further injury. 

Leading the normal life of a pet should afford him many years of pain free life.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

I am so sorry, Marie. Unfortunately, I agree with Swampcollie. Any forced exercise/training would not be good on the elbows. My boy Trip had ED. I had the surgery done and after, with my other dogs, he kept coming up lame from playing. I found the best thing for him was to place him in an only dog family. It was really hard to do, but he now has the best life with his retired couple. I'm not saying you should place Riot, as he is not subject to other dogs, but I really would consider retiring him from training/competition.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I too would retire him. It is very sad but our dog sports are tough on dogs with joint issues and usually dysplatic dogs can be managed and kept relatively pain free as companion dogs but the added stress of field work and/or competition obedience jumping is just too hard on them. 

Can you get the purchase price refunded to help towards the possibility of surgery?



Swampcollie said:


> To be honest I would retire him from further competition and training for such. There is no sense causing extra wear and tear on the joint and risking further injury.
> 
> Leading the normal life of a pet should afford him many years of pain free life.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

Just wanted to say how sorry I was to see this and can imagine how disappointed you are. I think we just have to be realistic about the strengths and weaknesses of our dogs and give them the fullest life possible considering those strengths and weaknesses, trying always to keep in mind what's in the best interest of the dog.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

So sorry Marie and I completely understand how shattered and disappointed you may feel. DH was at that very point back in the early 90s with our Trooper. He did not do the Xrays as the pain was quite self evident and he had to retire him early. All in all he was the best dog I have ever seen and I owe him my love for the goldens. He lived to be 13 and most likely would have lived longer if it wasn't for the seizures. 
I do agree with swampcollie as far as retiring from field.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

DNL2448 said:


> I am so sorry, Marie. Unfortunately, I agree with Swampcollie. Any forced exercise/training would not be good on the elbows.


I've been thinking hard about this. 

I just don't know what to do. He loves to work so much, and I love working him. But on the other hand, he is my baby, and I don't want to do anything that will hurt him in the long run. 

For now, I think my plan is to stop doing field work with him and just focus on obedience, with no jumping. I want to see if he can stay sound if we stop field and pull back on some of the more strenuous exercises. If he can't, then we stop. But think I want to at least give him that chance. 

I'm seriously crying as I write this. I hate that we will not be able to reach some of my goals by no fault of my own or his. I know they are just my goals, but Riot really has become my best buddy and has so much potential. I just keep remembering the first time Connie Cleveland saw us working, she told me "you're going to have SO much fun with this dog." I know that I still will, but just not in the same way. It's hard...


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## Colie CVT (Sep 15, 2013)

Does he have actual fragments within his elbows or are they starting to get a little oddly shaped? 

We see a lot of dogs for ED and other foreleg problems where we work. Many of them find a lot of relief after arthroscopy, and the surgeons that I work with do a lot of PRP injections, shockwave besides physiotherapy for patients with this kind of condition. We have had some patients who aren't exactly surgical that seem to have an improvement with the shockwave and PRP injections alone, if not just the shockwave. :/ Just to give you some ideas of things to try there. 

My boy has something odd about his elbows (however the radiologist never gave me a real answer to what, nor the surgeon who thought he was going to get it). I've been doing a lot of sit/down repetitive motions with him and working on a sit-up per the physiotherapist that I work with. It's helped keep my boy pretty sound. He's over 3 years now, very active and athletic, and shows no signs of lameness. Even when he tweeked his elbow a few weeks ago, by the time I had one of my bosses look at him he said it was fine. :/ 

Is there any other thing you could work with him at? I know obedience can have those jumps, but what about like Rally or something like that? They don't really know when to quit. My dog has come up lame a few times from various dummy acts and just keeps running through it until he can barely breathe lol. They have more heart than they should have some days.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

mlopez said:


> I've been thinking hard about this.
> 
> I just don't know what to do. He loves to work so much, and I love working him. But on the other hand, he is my baby, and I don't want to do anything that will hurt him in the long run.
> 
> ...


I've seen how devoted you and Riot are to each other and I know this is only scraping the surface on how devastated you truly are. I have confidence that you will find the right combination of rest and training to give Riot purpose in his life without sacrificing his quality and longevity. It will always be hard to think about what might have been, but I know all of that pales in comparison to the thought of him not being around to snuggle on the couch with you in his old age.

It breaks my heart that you are having to face that some of your dreams will not be realized with him, but you two are an amazing team and I'm confident you will find challenges for him and for you that allow you both to grow without sacrificing his well-being. Please let me know how he's doing, I'm so hopeful that cutting out some his hard work will help. Thinking about you....


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Marie - can you talk to a ortho specialist or physical therapist about Riot and what you need to be looking out for? Or his limitations? 

My vets have all told me to keep my dogs active - mentally and physically. And just use a lot of common sense and wariness when it comes to what they can or can't do. 

I've already shared a few times that my Jacks has bilateral hip dysplasia. It was mild when he was 2 and had two rounds of xrays done (the second going to ofa). It's not the same thing as bilateral elbow dysplasia - which I went through with Danny, but still it will limit what he can do long term. 

All my vets and the specialist I spoke with concerning him have emphatically told me to keep him very active and just watch for signs from him. 

It's made me a lot more cautious and limiting when it comes to jumping. He is very capable of doing high jumps and can and will jump 25" very easily despite his 23.5" frame. But the past few months I've mainly been asking him to only jump 20" and I am actively limiting how many jumps I ask him for in practice. 

I know people who jump their dogs every day and jump higher on a regular basis to really proof their dogs. I'm not doing that. 

And the other thing is I have him out swimming a LOT - because it helps bulk up his muscles to keep things tight. And that's not just his hips, but I'm really trying to keep his shoulders and front end strong and muscled up. 

I was talking to my mom this morning... she came out to where I was working (I work from home in the early hours before heading in to the office) and showed me an article on something a lady is doing. Basically she was a search/rescue K9 unit officer with the police for a long time... long story short, she is now a pet detective. She uses her dogs to track and find lost pets. And she now has a training program where she trains other people to do the same thing with their dogs. <- My mom was all emphatic about how I should do this with Jacks and even Bertie. LOL.

I basically told her that tracking is a goal... and definitely something I will look into down the road when I've made the decision to stop asking Jacks to jump in obedience. I just have been very stretched for time and money with obedience stuff and now conformation with Bertie to switch gears to tracking.... but it's always been an interest, especially since both dogs have been trained to track me and other family members around our property. I like training them to use their noses.  

So please keep your spirits up and look forward to other stuff you can do with Riot even if it does reach a point where the fieldwork has to stop and even obedience becomes limited. 

And you know your dog better than anyone - you will know when it's time to stop.


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

This is in the same family of problems. At the age of one,my 150lb mastiff developed a slight limp after playing in the snow I let him rest for two weeks. A dog that walked at least two miles a day from the time he was old enough. The limp returned and off to the Vet I went. He was xray and I was told he had an ununited anconeal process. Off to the orthopedist we went and he wanted to operate. Surgery on a dog that size would change his life forever. I started the dog up on Cosequin and rested him two months. We blocked off the stairs which made him unhappy to sleep alone. It was very tough as he wanted his walks and sleep in the master bedroom. After two months we started walking again slowly. We got up to the two miles a day after about 60 days. The ortho could not belived this dog was able to do it! SO I agree with the others....let your dog live a normal life with everyday walks. I bet he'll do great.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

In the continuing saga of our past few weeks, I took Riot back to vet yesterday because he was itching like crazy! He had chewed part of his tail raw. I think it was an allergic reaction to the medication they put him on, since that was the only thing that had changed, and it started when I started the meds. So now he is on antibiotics and stopped the anti-inflammatory meds for now. We have some tramadol just in case he goes lame again. UUUGGGHHHH. 



Megora said:


> Marie - can you talk to a ortho specialist or physical therapist about Riot and what you need to be looking out for? Or his limitations?
> 
> My vets have all told me to keep my dogs active - mentally and physically. And just use a lot of common sense and wariness when it comes to what they can or can't do.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice  My vet recommended keeping Riot active and also highly recommended swimming. Today after obedience class, I took Riot swimming for a bit to cool off and stretch out. 

I'm only about 2.5 hours from the NC State Vet School, and they have a rehab and mobility clinic. I think that a trip there might be in order sometime soon. I think my vet needs to refer us. 



Colie CVT said:


> Does he have actual fragments within his elbows or are they starting to get a little oddly shaped?


No fragments, just wrong shape. 

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and encouragement. I love my boy more than anything.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

My Piper has ED. She was diagnosed at 7 or 8 months old. We did scope her elbows (I was refunded 1/2 her purchase price which paid for the surgery with my discount). She hasn't been lame since she recovered. Since the baby was born we haven't been nearly as active training but we do still compete in agility a few times a year, jumping preferred height. Since her diagnosis she has earned all the titles in my signature. Piper is super active and I just can't not let her do what she was made to do especially since she isn't lame afterwards. If you haven't done so, I'd strongly encourage you to consult with an orthopedic surgeon. Mine gave me my dog back.


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## Colie CVT (Sep 15, 2013)

That's one upside, no fragments means that there's no reason to go to surgery at this point. You could probably see benefit from starting some physiotherapy with him. Joint supplements, being most cautious on jumping. Myles is in the same boat that Riot is in! He does a ton of swimming, we stay very active. I've worked very hard on keeping him fit and trim. Does Riot know how to sit up? Working his core muscles can be very useful. It's the one trick that I have Myles do daily. But finding a good canine physiotherapist is very useful. I would ask about the PRP injections too! It's become my surgeon's favorite thing to do with inflammed joints, tendon injuries. We have seen a lot of wonderful results with it.  It's basically platelet rich plasma and it seems to really help promote healing. 

I would VERY highly recommend getting some treatment at that veterinary teaching hospital.  There are often ways to get treatment at the schools that you cannot always get with private practice, since they have a little more access to extra funds we sadly don't have. I've worked exclusively with the 3 surgeons at my work the last 3 years, and worked at this hospital in general almost 6 years now. The things that we can do for dogs are getting so insanely advanced.  Our physiotherapist has SO many things for owners to help keep their canine friends strong and active!


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## Colie CVT (Sep 15, 2013)

Interestingly enough, even if the general practice that I work at prescribes it all the time, one of the vets that I work with mentioned that previcox is a NSAID that is supposed to be avoided in use. Like only used with a certain kind of cancer. Which was the first time that I'd heard of that. Carprofen and Meloxicam are the two I've come to prefer of all the choices for NSAIDs in canines. Acupuncture can also help with pain. My first dog Kenai had a hip replaced when she was 8. She'd had bad reactions to 3 different NSAIDs (the last of which caused kidney damage) and she just got tramadol and a Fentanyl Patch with multiple acupuncture appointments to help with her pain. Just for a few other ideas.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Years ago, when I competed with my Laney, we competed against a beautiful golden that had ED. He went on to get many titles, including an OTCH. I have seen surgery be very helpful for certain types of ED. Lastly, I am a big fan of the Nutramax products (Dasuquin w MSM, Cosequin DS), fish oil, and Adequan which is back on the market. My Laney, who was OFA Fair at two, became mildly unilaterally dysplastic at 44 months, and got her UD after the diagnosis.
She still was competing in the rally ring at almost 12 years and jumping. Never limped a day in her life after I started her on Cosequin DS.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

If you are looking for other avenues for competition with your dog, I would look at tracking and nosework.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

Piper had no fragments that could be seen on x-ray but once we were in with the scope we found a piece of cartilage that, while still attached, was loose. It was removed along with any other "bad" cartilage. Made a huge difference for my girl (she was lame before surgery).


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

IowaGold said:


> My Piper has ED. She was diagnosed at 7 or 8 months old. We did scope her elbows (I was refunded 1/2 her purchase price which paid for the surgery with my discount). She hasn't been lame since she recovered. Since the baby was born we haven't been nearly as active training but we do still compete in agility a few times a year, jumping preferred height. Since her diagnosis she has earned all the titles in my signature. Piper is super active and *I just can't not let her do what she was made to do* especially since she isn't lame afterwards. If you haven't done so, I'd strongly encourage you to consult with an orthopedic surgeon. Mine gave me my dog back.


THANK YOU for sharing your experience. I feel the same way about the section that I bolded. The problem is that right now, Riot does sometimes get lame after exercise. How old was Piper when you had surgery done? From what I heard and read, the earlier the surgery is done, the more successful it is. 

Colie CVT: Thanks for all the advice!! I'm taking notes of things I want to check with the vet about. I'm going to call them tomorrow to get them to refer me to the vet school.


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## Colie CVT (Sep 15, 2013)

You're welcome!  I am lucky to work at a wonderful practice that believes very strongly in looking at the whole picture and we are HUGE believers in physiotherapy and things like acupuncture, shockwave, lazer, etc. Myles had a CT done of his elbows (I got lucky and the radiologist wanted to try some protocols so he got to be the guinea pig lol). 

My Kenai managed to make it to 8 with pretty severe bilateral hip dysplasia before I really needed to get one of them replaced. She wasn't much for competition though. However she sure would go all day and was ready to take on challenges. Dogs rarely know that they have short comings! My current shepherd Leia hurt her iliospoas muscle and even if it hurt so badly she didn't want to put her leg down, she wasn't going to release the bite sleeve and she still stood over it like she always did, yelling after the decoy. They always have heart!


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

Piper was 11 months when she had surgery. According to my surgeon, almost all dogs that are lame from ED get at least some relief with surgery. No one meeting my girl for the first time would know that there's anything wrong with her (she's 4 now). I don't have any delusions that she's never going to have problems, but she leads a normal life for now.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

Just a little update on Riot. He isn't really any better. We stopped the previcox and have been trying Tramadol plus prednisone, but he is still lame. We are going back to the vet on Tuesday to switch around some meds and see if we can get things better under control. Regular things are starting to make him lame, even tossing toys around in the house. If the new meds don't help, we are probably going to have to look into surgery. I'm still not sure what to do. I'm just trying to keep Riot as quiet as he allows me to.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

I am very sorry Marie, I wish I had something better to offer... We will be thinking about you.


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

I would try doing an anti-inflammatory again (previcox, deramaxx) and the tramadol..also ask about Gabapentin, another pain reliever. Thats the combo we use at work for really bad pain (hip or elbow dysplasia, bone cancer). Surgery def sounds like you may need to do sooner rather than later..poor guy


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Has it been established the elbows are what is causing the lameness? For example, my Laney who had OFA normal elbows had a lameness at about 1.5 years of age. I eventually took her to an orthopedic specialist who diagnosed biceps tendonitis. It was definitely exacerbated by chasing a ball, slamming on the brakes, then turning on a dime to bring it back. I stopped playing with her that way and a long time later she was better. After that she got her CD CDX UD RN and RA with no lameness. As another example, a dog can have dysplastic hips that do not hurt, but the panosteitis does....


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## Colie CVT (Sep 15, 2013)

Pred is a rather interesting choice for this kind of thing. I don't think I can think of a time we've ever given that for elbow pain. Odd.

Since previcox made him sick, I would avoid that one and I personally hate Deramaxx the most of all the NSAIDs out there. We have seen more dogs come into my work with a perferated gut from that medication and my own personal dog was sent into acute renal failure with it. Dislike much! I'm more a fan of carprofen and meloxicam for NSAIDs than anything else. Gabapentin could potentially help, however it doesn't always seem to help in all cases. 

It may not hurt to see an orthopedic specialist to see if they agree with your vet's assessment or if they find something else. Forelimb lameness is really very hard to diagnose and treat, unless it's pretty obvious what is going on. They're taught to look for the weird as much as the common, and you would be amazed what you can find for injuries! My white shepherd hurt herself during protection training and the way she was holding up her leg and crying out, I thought it was her back or her CCL. Neither one palpated as being it. When I explained it to my boss I asked to evaluate her for me, he thought it was possibly a tendon injury near the hock, however all those places where normal. We discovered through all his poking and prodding that it was her iliospoas muscle that was injured! Her back twitched just a touch when he rotated her hip in full extension. 

Hopefully you guys can get this under control somehow. :/ I have a feeling in his heart of hearts he wouldn't want to stop doing what he loves, even if he limps afterward! They never like to be told that they can't.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Thanks Colie - that was the same thing I thought when I read pred. 
So sorry you are going thru this Marie. I hope the vet or specialist can get to the bottom of this soon and Riot can go on Disturbing the Peace again. Poor you and poor him. Any idea why the vet recommended prednisone?


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

Prednisone is a fabulous anti-inflamatory but the problem is that it makes everything feel better so you must still keep the dog from overdoing it......he will feel much better. Keep him off stairs!! Hope things improve!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I am so sorry about this news. It is so hard to take in a negative diagnosis, and work through how to address it best. My Topbrass girl Tango had ED in both elbows, very severe. I went ahead and did the surgery when she was 7 months old, bc she had FCP so it was like she has painful sand in her joint. The surgery made a miraculous difference, and she went from hobbling to appearing sound to the naked eye. I live in a very active multidog household, so I ended up placing her with a dear friend and golden lover as an only dog who goes to teach history class daily. However, she runs, swims, plays ball, and races around with the campus dogs there, and has never even limped again. I have to say, I am amazed how effective the surgery was.


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## Colie CVT (Sep 15, 2013)

Pred is a really old school choice now for joint pain when there are so many canine approved anti-inflammatories. The list of side effects of using corticosteroids is why most people tend to avoid them in cases like this. When I think pain and pred being used, I am thinking of back pain or cervical pain dogs. We see thousands of dogs every months, hundreds a week for pain or limping of some sort or another. We very rarely jump for the steroids and usually am for NSAIDs first. The side effect list alone... :/

I know if my specialists think the issue is elbow pain, they'll palpate the whole front leg, watch them move, take their own x-rays (we have digital which has such a crisp picture) and usually our recommendation is a CT with arthroscopy if indicated. We've had some dogs who were limping that didn't have anything surgical, and shockwave plus the ACP worked wonders. That stuff really is pretty awesome and it heals ligaments and joints really amazingly.  

Does Riot know how to sit up? This was the really big thing that the physiotherapist recommended I did with Myles. Having to balance on their hind legs like that engages their core and having a strong core helps take some of the pressure off of their forelegs.  My boy had mild degenerative changes at 18 months and we had gotten pain out of him with his elbows as a puppy multiple times. Now as an adult he's incredibly sound, very athletic and you should have seen the physiotherapist's eyes bug out when she felt how strong his muscles are along his spine! It's kind of crazy how strength training can help them too.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

Sally's Mom said:


> Has it been established the elbows are what is causing the lameness?


Good question! My vet seems to think that it is the elbows, but I'm going to get a referral to a specialist before we think about surgery or anything else. 



Colie CVT said:


> Does Riot know how to sit up? This was the really big thing that the physiotherapist recommended I did with Myles. Having to balance on their hind legs like that engages their core and having a strong core helps take some of the pressure off of their forelegs.  My boy had mild degenerative changes at 18 months and we had gotten pain out of him with his elbows as a puppy multiple times. Now as an adult he's incredibly sound, very athletic and you should have seen the physiotherapist's eyes bug out when she felt how strong his muscles are along his spine! It's kind of crazy how strength training can help them too.


Yup! We have been working on this. We are also looking into a rehab vet who works with acupuncture, laser treatments, and conditioning. 

Med wise, we were doing the prednisone just briefly because Riot chewed his all his tail fur off. We had to stop the previcox, put him on Tramadol, and then added prednisone after a few days so we could get him to stop itching. We weaned back off the prednisone a few days ago. I just picked up rimadyl and gave him his first dose with his dinner tonight. We will see how things go. Thanks for all the positive thoughts!


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

So, no good news here... 

Riot was too lame last Sunday to show in obedience. He was lamer than I had ever seen. I took him back to my vet on Monday because he was so hobbled. We increased his medications to the maximum: 125 mg of Rimadyl in the morning and 100 mg of Tramadol three times a day. He was still lame until Thursday, when he seemed to finally look better. However, I also noticed that he was itching pretty badly again, had chewed a new spot open on his tail, and had a rash on his tummy. So back to the vet again. Got some antibiotics for his staph infection and abx spray for this tail. The vet thought maybe it was fleas, but we brushed him really well and found no fleas or flea dirt. I haven't seen fleas in a few weeks, so I'm not sure what's going on. 

Then Saturday evening, he started limping again. He was pretty lame this morning again, a little better now, but not great. I just want to hug him and snuggle him and make him feel all better. We have our referral into NC State vet school, so I will be calling them tomorrow to set up an appointment. Apparently, these people Canine Orthopedic Surgery and Rehab Therapy - VOSM are considered some of the best in the country for this sort of thing, so I am going to also get an online consult with them. It's a little far, but if I'm going to do surgery, I want the best. That will give me a second opinion from what the vet school says.

And the saga continues....


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

I am so sorry to hear of Riot's problems. Hope the consults give you some good options.


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## Makomom (Feb 28, 2012)

Mako had FCP in both elbows....thought he had just pulled a muscle at the dog park but the limp wouldn't go away. He was 7 months old when diagnosed....we had surgery done on both elbows at the same time and 6 weeks of therapy afterwards....he had hydrotherapy which helped him a lot and we have a pool so he got extra. I must say now he is over 2 years only and has no issues. The specialist we took him to was wonderful. They did say he will have arthritis in both elbows and to make sure we keep him on the lighter side. Luckily he swims everyday and has no signs of arthritis yet. I am saying a prayer that Riot does as well with whatever you decide needs to be done. 
The pic is Mako in physical therapy.


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

mlopez said:


> So, no good news here...
> 
> Riot was too lame last Sunday to show in obedience. He was lamer than I had ever seen. I took him back to my vet on Monday because he was so hobbled. We increased his medications to the maximum: 125 mg of Rimadyl in the morning and 100 mg of Tramadol three times a day. He was still lame until Thursday, when he seemed to finally look better. However, I also noticed that he was itching pretty badly again, had chewed a new spot open on his tail, and had a rash on his tummy. So back to the vet again. Got some antibiotics for his staph infection and abx spray for this tail. The vet thought maybe it was fleas, but we brushed him really well and found no fleas or flea dirt. I haven't seen fleas in a few weeks, so I'm not sure what's going on.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear your boy is getting worse.  i will say VOSM is an awesome awesome place. Two of the techs and one of the doctors at my work have been there with their dogs. The tech dogs were for cruciate issues..the dogs have healed and are doing so well. The doctors dog was something to do with the shoulder/elbow..and he also has done really well. That is my first choice if I ever needed an orthopedic for my dog. Luckily it isnt too far from me..but if you dont mind the drive that would be one to consider!


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## MaureenM (Sep 20, 2011)

Just reading this, and so sorry about Riot. It sounds like you're heading in the right direction and will get some answers and hopefully a resolution that will keep him able to do what he loves.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Thinking of you and Riot during this difficult time!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Any news on Riot?


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

Claudia M said:


> Any news on Riot?


Thanks to amazing modern technology, I was able to video chat with the surgeon in Maryland. I had sent them the x-rays and video of Riot walking, trotting, and running. 

The vet's opinion is that Riot would benefit greatly from surgery. He can see evidence of bone changes on the x-rays, but he also thinks, considering the progression of Riot's lameness, that he probably has one or more bone fragments in the joint. The vet can tell from the videos that Riot is off on both legs, not just the right, so he wants to do both elbows at the same time. I think that makes most sense to me. They do arthroscopic surgery, with a camera the size of a coffee stirrer. This means shorter recovery time and less risk of infection. Riot will have to be on activity restriction for at least 12 weeks after the surgery. This vet does a lot of long distance surgeries, so they have a bundle of information that I will take home. They also have information for my local vet and will help me find a local rehab vet. And I will send videos of Riot at scheduled intervals so they can see his progress. Of course, if anything abnormal happens, I can bring him back up to Maryland. 

Since Riot is still young, the vet believes that the surgery will help him out a lot. I am going to call on Monday to schedule surgery, probably for the week of the 11th. It's about a 7 hour drive, not too bad. Riot will stay overnight after surgery and then will be able to come home. 

I'll keep everyone updated when I know the exact day of surgery.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

That sounds like good news. I am glad you are going to do the surgery. Good luck!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I'm glad you have a plan and will be getting those elbows cleaned out!


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Sounds like a good plan!


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## Makomom (Feb 28, 2012)

So glad you are getting the surgery. The recovery will go by faster than you think! Mako now has no indication he had issues with both elbows and runs and plays like a 2 yr old golden should. Riot will do fine and I will be thinking about you both....good luck and keep us posted!


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Sounds like an good plan! VOSM is truly an awesome place!so glad you are going there..Riot will feel so much better!


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

OK, everyone, mark your calendars : Surgery is scheduled for November 14th. We will be dropping him off at 8am then picking him up at 10am the next day. I am so ready to get him on the road to recovery!!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Hope all goes well!


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## MaureenM (Sep 20, 2011)

Wishing you guys the best of luck and a quick recovery!


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Wishing you the best.


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

Will be sending prayers and thinking good thoughts for an uneventful surgery and complete recovery. Tell Riot Tugg sends his best, as do I.

Donna


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

checking on you and Riot! How is he? How are you?


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

Claudia M said:


> checking on you and Riot! How is he? How are you?


We are a week away from leaving for Maryland! Riot has actually looked great this week. If there is a bone fragment, it must have recently moved to a better place. We even did a little bit of training the other day. However, tonight he looked lame. It has been really hard to keep him resting. He loves the cool weather and keeps trying to do zoomies in the back yard. I'm going to have to be much more diligent after surgery. He will also be confined to my bedroom when I'm not home. 

My mom and I have started planning on how we will spend the day of surgery, since we drop him early in the morning. We will have all day, and I don't want to be sitting around worrying. We will probably head into DC and explore some museums. 

EEK!! Can't wait! So ready to be on the road to recovery.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I can only imagine how hard it must be. Rose was not lame but she was under house arrest during her heat. I used that time to do a lot of obedience training which did not exhaust her physically but it did exhaust her mentally. The first time she was 8 months old. Now we are at the same spot at 17 months old - maybe a good time for force fetch. 
Hang in there, do attention sit/ stays, down stays, short directional training in the house and it will pay off once he will be better! Also it gives you the peace of mind that you are not losing training time.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Good Luck tomorrow! Will be thinking of you and Riot!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I hope everything went well today and you and Baby Riot are on your way back home!


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

Just a quick update before I crash in my bed... 

The surgery went really well. Riot had bone fragments in both elbows, more in the right and had a lesion on the right. The vet believes that he will recover well and has a good prognosis because there was minimal cartilage damage. 

Riot is on total exercise restriction for the next two weeks. Only outside to go potty. No stairs, which means he has to sleep downstairs away from me  but I know it will be worth it in the end. He is such a good boy but doesnt understand why he can't snuggle on the couch or go upstairs to bed. 

Ill take some pictures of my shaved boy in the morning. 

Thanks again to everyone for your support!! Riot and I greatly appreciate it!


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Good to hear that surgery went well. Now hoping for a smooth recovery!


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

So glad to hear that the surgery went well and you're both back home. Keeping Riot quiet for 2 weeks sounds like a challenge but it all should be well worth the effort.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

So so glad to see these news! I have a couple sleeping bags I can send to camp downstairs with Riot


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## MaureenM (Sep 20, 2011)

What good news!!!! So glad everything went well!!


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## Makomom (Feb 28, 2012)

Good to hear surgery went well. Can't wait to see the pics! Does Riot have a cast? When Mako had both his elbows done he only had stitches and no cast which on one hand was great but on the other I worried like crazy he was going to reinjure!!! All worked out great in the end which I am sure Riot will too.
This pic is Mako all shaved


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

Makomom said:


> This pic is Mako all shaved


That is exactly what Riot looks like!!! So funny! No casts, just two tiny incisions on each elbow with a few stitches. 

Here is a picture of the fragments that came out of each elbow. The ones in the right are obviously bigger. There is a quarter there so you can see the size.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Any pics of Riot? I hope you got some rest after such a long and stressful trip.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

Honestly, Riot is acting like he is feeling better than ever!! I'm so happy, but it makes it hard to keep him confined. I'm trying to stay strong against his puppy eyes 

Icing his elbows



















"Let me out!! Please..."



















Oh, and Riot had his first post-op poop this afternoon! Always important :


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## Makomom (Feb 28, 2012)

I didn't get to see the actual fragments that were in Mako's elbows. Probably the same as Riot's! I know about the eyes.....don't give in....the next 6 weeks are crucial for him!!! I know 1st hand!!!! Mako is doing awesome with no issues!! The only thing is to make sure he stays slim....any extra weight will not be good for this elbows. Mako is a big boy (his dad was 100 pds) and we had to shave off some pounds....keeping him on the skinny side is key to succes!


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

Glad to hear all went well.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

*Update!*

Riot has been doing very well, even though he hates being in his crate and ex-pen so much. He has fallen in love with the deer antler that I bought him. I'm going to have to pick up another one soon. He has been very good about not messing with is stitches, which is good since he refuses to wear his cone. I've made him an appointment to get his stitches out this coming Friday. Then we should get the OK to start rehab and 5 minute walks. Slow and steady. I have also added fish oil and Adequan injections to his regimen of supplements. 

I spoke with Riot's breeder and got a very good response from her. We will start talking about new puppies in the middle of next year, once I know how well Riot has recovered.

Fingers crossed that we get have good report Friday!


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

Marie,
Glad to hear Riot is doing well, and very glad you are very satisfied with is breeder's response, it's exactly what I thought would happen. I have to tell you, when I see Riot I think I am looking at my Tugg !! They could be be identical twins !! Good luck to your boy on his continued recovery and rehab. I am sure it will go very well.

Donna


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Just catching up on this..so glad everything went well. I am sure that trip was well worth it! Cant wait to hear about the day he is free of pain while he is training or going in the ring!


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## Artnlibsmom (May 8, 2013)

So glad to hear that Riot's surgery went well!

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

*Riot goin' to rehab*

Well, tomorrow will be 4 weeks post-op for little Riot. Yesterday was our first rehab appointment. Because we are not local to the group who did Riot's surgery, they recommended a rehab vet close to us. She is very nice and was very good with Riot. He was very amped up and hard to keep under control. He is so desperate to get exercise. Thankfully, we were cleared to start two 10 minute walks per day. Not much, but more that we were doing. The vet thinks that Riot is at a good spot right now, as a baseline. The surgeon doesn't want us to start underwater treadmill until about 8 weeks post-op, so we have a ways to go until then. But we will go slow and steady so that we can hopefully get the best results possible. Riot is pretty sure he is being tortured.....


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Sounds like Riot is on the right track!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Great news..all of mine take dasuquin w/MSM and fish oil... I also use adequan when necessary.. Hope Riot continues to do well.


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## MaureenM (Sep 20, 2011)

Glad to hear Riot is doing well! You guys will be back on track in no time!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Glad to see this update on Riot. I have been thinking of him but did not want to pester you on keeping us updated. I bet it is hard to keep him to none to moderate activity.


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

So glad he is doing well


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