# In a Rut Here



## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

I've been trying to get several thoughts from people and I've heard a few things so far from other people that I know. Stephanie is in a Facebook group and has been helping me out...but I'd like to hear what other people think as well. 

Lately it just seems like Maddie is not motivated to do much obedience. It shows in the ring as well. I'm thinking that maybe it's the food being unpresent...and then she tends to get into that panic mode when we're in the ring, seeing the ring gates..and may run out of the ring. I'm thinking it's ring anxiety because she sees it as not being any fun. I use toys when training, a little bit of food except for when I'm teaching something new. Sometimes, it doesn't seem like she wants to play either! How can I make her play? She LOVES to play otherwise but doesn't seem very engaged in it when we do. I see those dogs who can score very well, having a blast out there...just not sure what I'm doing wrong exactly. Any thoughts or comments are very much appreciated!

Thanks!


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

When does she like to play/readily play? How do you play with her?
How do you use food in training? 
How proficient are your pieces of the exercises?
What time of day is she happiest/most excitable?

How often do you get to classes/run throughs? How many times has she been sad in the ring/how recently were those times?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

How often are you training?

How long are your training sessions?

How else do you reward good behaviors besides using food?

Are you doing fun matches - where you can loosen up and have fun in the "ring" ?

Are you playing with your dog between exercises - even when showing?


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

How did she do in Rally? Didn't you put an RE on her? So, she was working off leash in a ring for RA and RE. What did that look like?


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Okay...so answer all of your questions:

I train her usually right after I get home from school. Sometimes I'll work her twice a day, but on different things. My training sessions are anywhere from 5-15 minutes long depending what we work on. 

She loves to tug as well as chase a tennis ball...either one works good for her. I haven't shown her since October and I can't remember if I did play with her after...it was Rally so it was different than Obedience. Fun matches are very scarce around here and are usually in the spring...but our club does Run Thrus on Friday nights, once a month. 

Okay, so our club sets up rings with gates at class and we can go in there and work...I don't do everything that a dog normally would when at a show...so I break it up and do a recall maybe a jump and then go on to more heeling outside of the ring. I have played with her in and out of the ring...not sure what one really makes a difference? 

I'm don't think that she's 'sad' in the ring...just like in that mood of "Ehh, I don't really want to focus on Mom. She's not giving me treats." I can see her attitude change quite a bit from moving from exercise to exercise. Maybe I'll find a video of what I want in her...to show you guys. She's just lacking focus and drive without the toys and food in the ring..maybe?

Yes, I did earn her RA and RE with her...to me she could've had a lot better attention in the ring. And she didn't trot with me during heeling..just kind of paced or walked, which is NOT what I've trained her to do. But I'm hoping with this attention stick it'll correct that.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

At the club run throughs, do you have to do a run through or can you use the time for what you want? If you can do that or find a match here is what I would do:

Walk in the ring, set up for heeling, and then release her before you even take a step. Then do whatever you need to (with yourself, not with food or toys) to get her happy. Even if that means sitting on the mats with her in your lap, get her in a happy state. Then set up again and take just a couple of steps of heeling. Big release and make happy. Repeat. Don't make her work for a long period of time, just make the time she is working a fun time. Better to have two steps of heeling with good attitude than a whole pattern of something you don't want. You can work up to longer periods of work over time. Only stay in the ring a few minutes. Try to leave while she is having a blast (even if it takes you playing chase with her to get her to have a blast). When you walk out of the ring, put her in her crate, fun time is over.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I wrote something very similar to Loisiana, but must have forgotten to actually post it from work 

I spend a good portion of my ring time at matches and rentals getting in the ring, setting up and perhaps a few steps of heeling followed by party time. I even do it at class when I go. Short, sweet and very energetic bursts should bring her attitude up  Precision can follow but attitude - well - priceless


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## Augie's Mom (Sep 28, 2007)

You may want to check out the Bridget Carlsen Motivational DVDs.

Her jackpot technique is used to create drive and motivation in the ring but the focus is really you. Her word is "hungry" and her dogs light up. 

I was watching an OTCH person I know train her young dog and recognized her using Bridget Carlsen's techniques and asked her about it. She felt that it keeps her dogs from burning out during their OTCH pursuit since they show almost every weekend.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

I'm LOVING the wonderful suggestions you guys have given me! I will try that at class next week and we'll see how it goes! 

Since I'm going to the specialty show tomorrow and Saturday I'll watch Obedience and see what handlers and dogs I like and maybe get the guts to go and talk to them...I'm kind of shy with new people, believe it or not!

Hmm..so much to ponder about the Bridget Carlsen DVD. I guess I could get it. I've heard good things about it and maybe jackpot training is something I need to go to. Decisions..decisions..


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Do some google searching about "Conditioned emotional response," that's essentially what Bridget Carlson is doing with her "jackpot" (.....in behavior... "jackpot" means something different......). It's something that everyone should be utilizing to some extent, and most people do, just with different amounts of intention! She has created a training plan that's fairly easy to follow, making it a lot easier for other people to intentionally use CER. 

If she can tell you don't have food/toys on you.... you should change what you're doing when you -do- have those things. Be sure you are not luring/prompting with the reinforcers...only using them after you get the desired performance.

You may want to work up to sending her to reinforcers.... Start with a bowl of food or pile of treats or toy on the ground.... ask for a sit or attention, when she does it, release her to the (whatever). Over time, ask for more, until she can heel past it, over it, etc...and be released to it. 

You may want to look into ways to deal with human stress as well as helping your dog relax at trials when she's not working, so she can put 100% into her work.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Be sure you are not luring/prompting with the reinforcers...only using them after you get the desired performance.


^ This is so true!


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

I agree with what you said! I'm thinking about just ordering the DVD...for 3 dics and it only being 80...that's not too bad. If I see her tomorrow at the show I may ask her for some help. But not sure what she'd be able to do lol. I guess I gotta get out of this shy stage! lol


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## Augie's Mom (Sep 28, 2007)

Bridget Carlsen also does video lessons, her website has the details.
You send in a video to her of your issue and she creates a plan for you. A friend I train with is doing that and really likes it. This may be of more help to you as it will be specific to your issue.



MaddieMagoo said:


> I agree with what you said! I'm thinking about just ordering the DVD...for 3 dics and it only being 80...that's not too bad. If I see her tomorrow at the show I may ask her for some help. But not sure what she'd be able to do lol. I guess I gotta get out of this shy stage! lol


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

She is a spayed girl - Older then 4 years right?
Has she had a complete thyroid panel? 

Liberty seemed 'off' and bit edgy that and the hair on her neck and haunches had changed...sure enough low...she just started taking supplements and I am curious to see if she perks up!

Not saying that there arent training issues to work thorough <we've all got one or another>...only that maybe there is a health issue feeding the problem...


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Hmm...you know a friend of mine has had that problem with her dog..but still has some ring issues/stress.

I will try the above suggestions and see if the taking baby steps in the ring help any. Then I may turn to the thyroid panel test.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Caryn, are you sure Maddie is the one with the motivation problem? I say that kindly, not rudely. But if you are tired or stressed, or WORRIED ABOUT HER MOTIVATION, she senses that and she will get more and more "down". Ask me how I know....


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

What does your instructor say about it?


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Barb: You know..that may be the truth! And no, you didn't say that rudely!

Steph: I haven't asked my instructor about it. We don't really have one at this moment..trying to find someone in my area who has tons of experience and maybe an OTCH


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## Rastadog (Oct 24, 2006)

*Reread this thread from 2008*

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Sounds like Maddie doesn't clearly understand 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

that you expect her to keep her head up looking at you. That requires trust that comes with consistant training. Instead of shopping for fancy article bags you could spend 5-10 min a day working on stationary attention and your first step. I have never see anyone train attention with a halti. My guess is it makes Maddie worry. Not a good way to get a happy dog in the ring. You need to find a way to motavate her so she wants to look at you without worry or fear. 


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#50 (permalink) 02-28-2008, 05:09 PM 
MaddieMagoo 
OTCH Wannabes! Join Date: Aug 2007
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Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts 

Thanks for the advice. But no thanks.

I have a trainer who knows how to use the Halti. Here is what she said in my e-mail I got today about making it 'fun'. 

From Linda:
There is simply no way to make this "fun" for her, just as there is no way to make this fun for you. The fun will come later when you realize that each time you work her she starts to give in sooner and sooner. 

Keep at it! I'm not kidding. This is going to take time and effort. This is where you discover what you're made of -- this is where you become a real dog trainer. You're trying to change Maddie's negative attitude about working and that's going to take some time. But in the end it's so very worth it! One day you'll win and then she won't say "no" anymore.

The only reason why she wants us to use the Halti, is because Maddie drops her head, and I don't know what to do/don't correct her for it. THis isn't a mean approach, it's called "dog training". 

I'm happy with my trainer and I am comfortable with her techniques. 

To Julie:

The only reason why I am signing up for Pre Novice, is because Linda told me to. She told my dad the reason as I was working with her, and didn't ask because I forgot, why Pre-Novice. Yes, it may sound like common sense...but I'll ask Linda that. 

Caryn 
__________________
-Caryn & Maddie =]

Miss Maddie Magoo RE CGC 



I guess training attention on a halti and microprong didn't work too well. Caryn it's not about tapes and books and article bags it's about your relationship with your dog. You never made it fun for Maddie or made yourself interesting to her. Reread the whole thread.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Just a note that I have been seriously considering getting a head halter for attention purposes for Flip. It is a legitimate training tool that I have seen some trainers use with great results.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Thank you Jodie for saying that! A LOT of people gave me such crap for using it. Hmm....maybe they'll think twice about it now! HA! =P


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Karen,

Just curious... Why do you elicit advice and suggestions when you seem to be pretty set in your ways in terms of how you want to do things? While I still struggle how to understand how a dog is supposed to find it motivating to have his head physically pulled into position with the Halti, I'm sure it does work well for some dogs. There's a gal locally who I've seen use it with her Rottie. However, that doesn't mean it's the right technique for all dogs --- and maybe, just maybe ... who knows ... in the long run, there's a chance it might not have been the most motivating method for your dog. You said you want a dog who LOVES to work and be in the ring, yet it sounds like your training attitude is, at least in part, centered on "she HAS to do it this way." Those beliefs are kind of at odds with each other. While some dogs can handle compulsion-style training methods and stay drivey and animated, many flatten out. I wonder if that's what's happening with Maddie?

The email that Rasta re-posted ... it's all about how it's not supposed to be fun ... it's dog training ... she has to do it ... etc, etc. No disrespect to your other trainer, but that attitude seems at the other spectrum from motivating. I wonder if it's possible that some of that training has impacted her overall level of motivation? [Edited to Add: Again, hear me say that I'm not suggesting this way is *wrong*. There are as many ways to train dogs as there are trainers to think them up. I'm just saying there's a chance that, while a potentially fantastic method (and I say that not knowing much about it), it might not be what's right for your dog.]

We've posted ideas here, and people have posted on the FB group you joined where you asked the same question. Lots of things like, "Play, make it fun ... Go in the ring, set up to heel; then release and play instead!" yet the only thing you seem interested in doing is defending what you've already done.

"If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always got."

Just sayin'...

Feels like you're pretty closed off to other ways of doing things. And if I'm wrong on that, please let me know. It's been about 10+ days since you first posted looking for ideas. Have you tried any of them so far?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I do not know you, your dog, and did not see the other threads. But after training my first golden, I figured out a lot of the things I needed to do to make things fun for the next dog. A lot of those things had to be done from day one (like dropping down to reward a flying come with permission to chew my hair), but I'm sure there are a lot of things you can do now to have more fun.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Okay I have never seen Caryn work her dog before but I devour every word that I can find by Linda Koutsky and here is what I am getting from it. I could be off base but I think that Linda is saying that Maddie is not truly stressed but choosing not to enjoy working because it's not the way she wants it. Sometimes you've just got to stop giving the dog options and let them know it's it's NOT yer choice. Once they realize the rules and it becomes black and white to them that poopy face pouter is not going to get them out of it then they learn to enjoy it. 

Flip and I do moving head holds together regularly. We do not do them for fun. It is not a fun time for either one of us. But it is something this dog _needs._ And every time we do them I get less and less resistance from him. I do believe that in the end he will stop fighting me about it that is when he will be able to enjoy it.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Editing this all away, because I was probably incorrect. Nevah mind<:


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Megora said:


> Unless I'm wrong, Linda's idea for fixing stays is making the dog work on watches the entire time.


One area I have studied and earned my degree in is Linda's stay protocol! And I've never heard her say anything about teaching a dog to watch on stays. 

I agree not everything works for every dog. But Linda and Caryn worked together for quite awhile so I think that is the feel Linda got off Maddie from their time together. Whether it's right or not, I can't tell you that.

BTW, the spinning thing certainly wouldn't be the right thing for all dogs! But ya know I have a special dog with very special needs! 

I listen to everything Linda says, think about it, consider how what she is saying goes with my dogs. But I don't do everything she says.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

The rest of my babble was simply that. Not very important. 

I googled really quickly and can't sort out WHO did that seminar that I was referring to. I thought it was Linda, but surely was confuzzled. Hmm... *think + google first before speaking moment*


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

I worked with Linda for about 4 years, if I'm correct. That was the most time well spent in my life working with her. I don't use the Halti anymore...did I not say that? It's been YEARS since I've used it. Linda doesn't use the armband attention, but I thought it would work for my dog...and guess what, it has! 

It's not her heeling that is demotivated..not sure where some of you are gathering this from? Her heeling is very drivey from a dog like her and I'm quite pleased with it. It's her attitude between the exercises that concern me. 

Yes, Obedience is supposed to be fun and all, but you can't just give up on the dog because they don't want to do it, that's just not how it works (at least in my world). If any of you truly know Linda, her OTCH dog went from being the most stubborn dog in the world...to being a 200 score winner with multiple HIT and HC. Hmmm...that type of attitude in the dog sounds oddly familiar. I'm not saying that you can't play with the dog or do motivating things to get them revved up, but sometimes you have to let them know that they can't get away with things and this is how it's going to be. 

I thank Jodie for backing me up on a lot of this, we too often let dogs get away with things that are just disrespectful and unnecessary. I think that with her seminar coming up I'm going to ask her about our problem....as another person told me to wait what she has to say...(she happens to be Judie Howard). 

I did try the suggestions you guys gave me...but with class being only once a week it's hard to judge how she's doing from only doing it once. But...she did do pretty good with the few times we set up and rewarded and played.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> It's not her heeling that is demotivated..not sure where some of you are gathering this from? Her heeling is very drivey from a dog like her and I'm quite pleased with it. It's her attitude between the exercises that concern me.


I must have misread something earlier.  Between exercise work depends on you keeping her attention and staying loose. 



> I'm not saying that you can't play with the dog or do motivating things to get them revved up, but sometimes you have to let them know that they can't get away with things and this is how it's going to be.


I agree. You have to have a solid foundation - and at least how I learned it from my instructors. That involves using corrections and making the dogs do the exercise right. 

But what I was saying is you need to balance that out with a lot of positive reinforcement. 

I'm sure you can pick that up by going to seminars. You can also head out to shows to watch more experienced trainers and see what they are doing between exercises to keep their dogs happy and focused. Same thing when you go to fun matches or class.

Different people have different methods, and if you know your dog you will pick up bits and pieces of things you can do with your dog.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

The whole first day of Celeste Meade's seminar is teaching you what to do with the dog BETWEEN exercises. It was excruciating to sit through but if that's what you're looking for, that's who you should hone in on.
If the dog were magnificent in heeling and the exercises themselves but was mopey between exercises, then nobody would care. Clearly it's an overall attitude. 
Caryn I would ask what your goals are with Maddie. I mean really and truly what do you want to accomplish in the obedience ring. The dog is no spring chicken and you guys haven't broached Novice yet. This is not meant as a slight but rather a reality check. If Maddie does awesome at heeling and the other exercises but is draggy in between, well then is it worth spending 6 months or a year of the dog's life changing that? Because that's how long a real change is going to take. Or can you live with it and go ahead and go for her CD and realize the precision and long-term attitude needed for an OTCH isn't necessary. 
I think you guys need a shot in the arm and maybe just GOING FOR IT in novice will do that for you, rather than grinding away at training.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

If the only problem is "between exercises," then don't treat the between time that differently. Heel right out of one (praising as you heel) and immediately set up for the next one.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Anney- An OTCH really isn't my goal anymore. Since I'm off to college next year, I really don't see that happening. It was my goal like a few years back, but I've realized that it's not all about the OTCH. I want to be able to get nice scores in Novice and Open...up in the high 190's. 

I will still ask Linda at her seminar what to do...as she may have a solution to the root of the problem.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

MaddieMagoo said:


> Anney- An OTCH really isn't my goal anymore. Since I'm off to college next year, I really don't see that happening. It was my goal like a few years back, but I've realized that it's not all about the OTCH. I want to be able to get nice scores in Novice and Open...up in the high 190's.


Gotcha, and I think that is realistic although -- are the scores really THAT important to you? You are the only one who will ever remember the dog's scores. 



> I will still ask Linda at her seminar what to do...as she may have a solution to the root of the problem.


Well I think we can all tell you the root of the problem. Getting and maintaining attitude in the obedience ring is HARD. Maddie is your first dog and there is a huge learning curve for both of you. With a completely green handler, it's extremely difficult to not only teach the nuts and bolts of the exercises but to instill the drive, attention and attitude you see with the OTCH dogs. It's something that starts from day one. The skills and finesse from the trainer to get this are something that you must develop over years of training dogs, you don't read a book and understand it, much less be good at it. Maddie didn't get that. It's not her fault and it's not your fault, it's just a function of First Dog Syndrome. We ALL go through it. You know the saying, you have to ruin 10 dogs before learning how to train one correctly?
So what I'm saying is that the fix for this will not be a little nugget gleaned from any trainer during a 10 minute conversation. You won't read it in a book. You won't see it on a youtube video. It takes years to understand and apply. Maddie has taught you more about training than any dog will in the future, for better or for worse, but you can't change what she is as a dog, and it's really hard to take back or re-do her early training. 
I applaud you for trying, because that's the only way to succeed. I just hate to see you spinning your wheels when I think if you could walk in the ring right now and qualify in Novice, regardless of score, you'd be absolutely thrilled, and you're missing out on that by trying to get it perfect.

I got my first golden when I was 13. Oh the crazy mistakes I made with that dog, holy cow. I remember I drew this picture of a golden winning a big ribbon and over it I wrote "CHAMPION-FIELD CHAMPION-OBEDIENCE CHAMPION TUCKER" and showed it to my obedience instructor. My little dream as a teenager. She laughed and said "Well sometimes dogs can change." I was crushed. But even with those pie in the sky lofty goals, I would have been absolutely ecstatic to get his CD. He was a freak with stays and we never got our last Novice leg to finish his title. I learned a lot with that dog though, mainly what I shouldn't do. Anyways, I wish you the best of luck but bottom line is, accept your dog for what she is and be happy with the accomplishments you can attain.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> I remember I drew this picture of a golden winning a big ribbon and over it I wrote "CHAMPION-FIELD CHAMPION-OBEDIENCE CHAMPION TUCKER" and showed it to my obedience instructor.


I'm just glad I didn't get the obedience bug that early or I probably would have done a LOT of funny things like that.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

K9-Design said:


> Gotcha, and I think that is realistic although -- are the scores really THAT important to you? You are the only one who will ever remember the dog's scores.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree with you Anney, 100%. Yes, I think we could qualify in the Novice ring but I'm overlooking it all and trying to get it perfect (I guess that's the perfectionist side in me). The only thing I'm worried about is making a fool of ourselves and having her run out of the ring on me...but if I don't let her run out of the ring. By that I mean making the transition from exercise to exercise motivating enough for her to stick with me, yet have her stick with me like only patting her and saying "Good Girl!" and maybe a hand touch but then she MUST heel with me to the next exercise. I'll play around with it and see if it works at class tonight. 

Not sure if anyone is going to see this...but any suggestions on how to fix WIDE about turns? Hers are so wide you could fit another dog in the space between her and I! :


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> By that I mean making the transition from exercise to exercise motivating enough for her to stick with me, yet have her stick with me like only patting her and saying "Good Girl!" and maybe a hand touch but then she MUST heel with me to the next exercise.


If she's under control (not jumping on the judge or running out of the ring), she doesn't have to heel between exercises. You just want her to stay with you and be ready to go back into training mode when you give her the "let's work" cue (mine is I get my guy to sit at my side and I do a teeny scoot-heel-sit forward). So you can clap your hands to get her with you and take your good old time getting to that starting position. 



> but any suggestions on how to fix WIDE about turns? Hers are so wide you could fit another dog in the space between her and I!


Give the leash a pop as you do an about and stride out (and I mean move fast). Give her a sense of urgency to stay right with you.

Other times (if off leash), if she's with you when you complete the about, toss a treat forward and release her after it.

Make sure you are not unconsciously stepping into her, so watch your footwork (I do a modified T - mainly to keep my feet under me). 

The other thing is to make sure you aren't stepping sideways away from her. Set markers to line you up properly when you do the about turn.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

MaddieMagoo said:


> I agree with you Anney, 100%. Yes, I think we could qualify in the Novice ring but I'm overlooking it all and trying to get it perfect (I guess that's the perfectionist side in me). The only thing I'm worried about is making a fool of ourselves and having her run out of the ring on me...but if I don't let her run out of the ring. By that I mean making the transition from exercise to exercise motivating enough for her to stick with me, yet have her stick with me like only patting her and saying "Good Girl!" and maybe a hand touch but then she MUST heel with me to the next exercise.


In Novice you are allowed to hold the dog by the collar in between exercises so this should be a complete non-issue. 
If the dog is consistently and purposefully leaving the ring on a regular basis, you've got bigger fish to fry and that speaks volumes of the desire and motivation the dog has been conditioned to.



> Not sure if anyone is going to see this...but any suggestions on how to fix WIDE about turns? Hers are so wide you could fit another dog in the space between her and I! :


This also speaks volumes about your training in general. Good about turns are sort of competition obedience 101. 



> I'll play around with it and see if it works at class tonight.


You've got to lose this mentality. NONE of your complaints are going to get fixed by playing around with it at class. And that seems to be your method of choice. It doesn't work.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I am using Linda's footwork that includes the step back in training to keep the rear end where it needs to be plus using the snug leash to keep the front end in and it has made an ENORMOUS impact on our about turns.


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## Augie's Mom (Sep 28, 2007)

MaddieMagoo said:


> I agree with you Anney, 100%. Yes, I think we could qualify in the Novice ring but I'm overlooking it all and trying to get it perfect (I guess that's the perfectionist side in me). The only thing I'm worried about is making a fool of ourselves and having her run out of the ring on me...but if I don't let her run out of the ring. By that I mean making the transition from exercise to exercise motivating enough for her to stick with me, yet have her stick with me like only patting her and saying "Good Girl!" and maybe a hand touch but then she MUST heel with me to the next exercise. I'll play around with it and see if it works at class tonight.


No matter what happens in the ring, you and Maddie won't make a fool of yourselves. You may miss out on an incredible experience that you and Maddie can share in by waiting for perfection. You are putting so much pressure on the two of you that I'm sure she senses it as well.

Have you tried being more physical in your praise between exercises?
I was thrilled to be able to interact with Augie between exercises when we moved from Rally to Obedience. Between exercises Augie gets verbal praise, hugs and kisses. It not only helps keep him connected with me but reassures him that I'm there for him.

You will never have another Novice A dog, be proud of your achievements and most importantly enjoy the journey together!:wavey:

P.S. We are far from perfection, but if I waited until we were he would not have his BN, RAE, NJP and CGC. Since he can't handle groups, we are working towards Grad. Open now and then hopefully Versatility one day.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

So tonight we went to class...and I'm not sure what the heck was up with her...but for some reason she was as happy as ever. I did everything normally....but I may have been praising her more and really interacting with her. But she was focusing on me and very excited to work with me....

Hmm...makes me wonder!


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Maddie please take this the right way but if you are waiting for perfection you are setting yourself to be dissapointed every time you walk in the ring..you can train for perfection but rarely do you see it in the ring....the very best handlers out there don't get them all that often. I concentrate on the important things in the ring.. like my footwork, making sure I am handling clean, making sure I set my dog up for the next exercise, what is the pattern, what's next.. ect.. get the idea? The minute you focus on the score you lose the whole reason for showing. It is to show that you guys are a team and are having fun.If you are doing it for placements and ribbons you will be disapointed.


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

How often do you use treats in training?
Everytime, sometimes, never, intermittently?
After they understand what you what, it is often better to give rewards intermittently and keep them guessing!


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Hmmm....it honestly depends on what I'm doing. For heelwork, when she's doing everything right and I'm happy with the attention I will reward her and she will light up and thinks, "Hey if I do that, mom will give me a cookie!!" 
I don't do them on fronts anymore just because they are pretty solid and I mainly just play with her..
Like I said, it depends on what I'm doing. But I'd have to say between never and intermittently. If that makes any sense?


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

MaddieMagoo said:


> I worked with Linda for about 4 years, if I'm correct. That was the most time well spent in my life working with her. I don't use the Halti anymore...did I not say that? It's been YEARS since I've used it. Linda doesn't use the armband attention, but I thought it would work for my dog...and guess what, it has!
> 
> *It's not her heeling that is demotivated..not sure where some of you are gathering this from?* Her heeling is very drivey from a dog like her and I'm quite pleased with it. It's her attitude between the exercises that concern me.
> 
> ...


Sorry if I confused you. I wasn't referring to her heelwork specifically. I haven't seen it other than in the early training videos where you were holding her head up with the Halti. I was more referring to, if that was your overall attitude toward all of the training... i.e., "Dog, you HAVE to do this ... it's not an option," that may be unmotivating to your dog.

I guess we can agree to disagree on the disrespectful/unnecessary thing. I simply do not believe dogs do things to be disrespectful, and I think viewing their behavior as "disrespectful" or anything similar can lead to the unnecessary use of compulsion. Dogs do what works. Period. It's our job to make them *want *to play our silly little game.

Sounds like whatever change YOU made in your recent class elicited a change in your dog's behavior, so good for you! 

Definitely relax and enjoy it. You really only have this summer with Maddie... then you head off to school. Relax, don't worry about perfection. Go do BN and see what happens!


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