# Aggression after attack?



## Kris L (Mar 2, 2013)

Hi all, I could REALLY use some insight and advice on this. Kiba got attacked over a ball he was not even interested in by another dog about a month ago. The dog did not break his skin, but had him on the ground shaking him by his side neck skin. Pretty scary. Since then he's gotten snarly at three other dogs over a ball he had, I caught him so am not sure he would actually attack. He snarling even though I had him by the collar last time and the other dog was calmly sitting there. He had never done anything like this before.

Fast forward today and he immediately lunged, once again snarling, at a dog he knows that ran up to greet him as soon as we went in. I personally do not plan on taking him back at this point. I'm not sure if this may be him getting fearful or maybe a thyroid issue (he has been really lazy lately and does not want to walk nearly as far as usual) or if its maybe because he's almost three and he just might be maturing more. Would it be hasty to call a behaviaralist or trainer? Or should I get a thyroid panel done first? Or is there something else I should try? These incidences have been out of the blue. He's fine 90% of the time and seems to enjoy socializing. I thought maybe it was the ball so we did not have that today. I am totally ignorant on this kind of issue. And pretty upset that he's going through this as he absolutely loves visiting the neighbor dogs and the neighbors themselves. But at this point I do not want to risk him getting any worse. He just had a vet appointment a week ago for shots and the vet said he was in perfect condition.


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## LUCKYme (Mar 29, 2015)

I think it is important to work on the issue with a trainer. Regardless of the reason he is acting out the behavior needs to be corrected. Of course, if you feel inclined to have a thyroid panel done then do so but I wouldn't attribute this behavior to a thyroid issue when the only other symptom is laziness  

In the meantime be very conscious of his behavior and be careful when allowing him to socialize with other dogs. I would not recommend you allowing him to be off leash around other dogs until the behavior is under control. 

Best of wishes!


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## azzure (Dec 10, 2011)

The exact same thing happened to my dog when he was about that age, with the exact same results. Gus is good with all the neighborhood dogs, but I really can't trust him off leash with new dogs. I have tried everything...I took him to a behaviorist and he was even on Prozac for awhile, and I've tried him with a trainer who uses the BAT training method. It's such a shame as he is the sweetest, cuddliest dog I've ever had. I wish I could give you ideas for a sure-fire cure, but I've not found one yet.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Sounds like fear aggression.... unfortunately this is a huge reason why "positive" socialization is such a huge thing for growing dogs. The wrong thing happening during a fear stage could totally mess up your dog.


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## Kris L (Mar 2, 2013)

Thank you. He will defiantly not be going back. Luckily he has not actually hurt another dog. Is 2 years still in a fear stage? I did not know that. I will be looking for a good trainer. And the only reason I thought it could really be a thyroid issue is because I heard that could be a reason for a dog to get snappy. It has also been pretty hot here and even I don't want to go outside. All sounds like good advice to me. I never thought my sweet laid back boy would be like this but after that last attack wich must have been terrifying for him I can't really blame him. This is also my pet peeve bad behavior with dogs so hopefully its not too late to get him back like he was.


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## Kris L (Mar 2, 2013)

Also the wierd thing is he is fine in any other dog park or on leash greetings. The dog park in question is the small apartment complex one by our building. luckily it is always empty in odd hours as most people are military. I will be keeping him away from all the parks though for now to be on the safe side, I personally believe if you cannot 100% trust your dog you should keep them out.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Megora said:


> Sounds like fear aggression.... unfortunately this is a huge reason why "positive" socialization is such a huge thing for growing dogs. The wrong thing happening during a fear stage could totally mess up your dog.



I agree with this. I think our job is to carefully choose peers and experiences for the dogs, and not let them interact with strange dogs at will. Dogs need to trust in us we will keep them in good situations or deal ourselves with unsafe ones so they dont feel they must be defensive with other dogs. 

I would try to set up play dates one by one with bombproof dogs he already loves, and insulate him from strange or edgy dogs. Keep the ball/ toys off the floor at first.


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## Brads035 (Apr 1, 2014)

It sounds like he is fearful and going on the defensive after his attack. He likely growled to keep other dogs away from his ball, which if it's just growling I don't think that's a reason to get too alarmed. With lunging at the dog who ran up to him - he might have been scared by the running, which can be interpreted as the prelude to an attack. Perhaps you can set up calm introductions on leash. Speak to a trainer but I wouldn't stop all introductions to new dogs or it will just get worse. Try to set up positive experiences. How is your dog's bite inhibition? If he gets into a scrap do you think he would hurt another dog?


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## DJdogman (Apr 23, 2013)

Is it only over the same ball all the time? If so, perhaps try just getting rid of that ball.
But yes unfortunately it sounds like that first attack has made him react like this. I would definitely go to a trainer immediately. We had a similar situation with our adopted boy who was attacked very soon after he came to us, and it made him fearful of other dogs and he would bark/lunge/growl. We did not nip it in the bud quick enough, we just kept putting him back in the same situation thinking he would get used to it but it only made him work. He is much better now after lots of training, but I wish we had got the training sooner after the incident. Best of luck, you CAN fix this!!


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

I never go to dog parks for a bunch of reasons...but being attacked is one of the big ones. A lot of people that have know idea how to own a dog and be responsible are out in those parks....

After my dogs are initially socialized to kids and dogs by our breeder, I never 'socialize' our dogs to other dogs. I spend all my efforts socializing my dog to me and my family, which includes two other Golden's as part of my 'pack'! And of course to all of the people I have contact with family, friends, and associates.....

Course that is just me!


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## Kris L (Mar 2, 2013)

This is a small dog park so people in the complex have a place to let the their dogs run. They are also allowed in the lake which is what we are sticking to for now. Most of the dogs that go in are great, only a few who are rather iffy who we avoid. The dog that attacked Kiba he has known well for months (along with the dogs he lunged and snarled at) but she has become aggressive and attacked quite a few dogs recently, she never had an issue with Kiba so I thought they would be ok. I have no idea why the owner keeps putting her dog in the same situation. I have contacted a trainer who gave me contact info for more qualified trainers (she does not work with aggression) so fingers crossed . Thanks for the advice guys. Luckily he's seems perfectly happy to be around a few of his small friends and the dog he grew up with so he won't be too lonely. He does seem to still want to socialize, after some research though I missed some more not so obvious signs that he was stressed or showing fear with some of the larger and more energetic dogs.


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## dezymond (May 3, 2012)

Kris L said:


> This is a small dog park so people in the complex have a place to let the their dogs run. They are also allowed in the lake which is what we are sticking to for now. Most of the dogs that go in are great, only a few who are rather iffy who we avoid. The dog that attacked Kiba he has known well for months (along with the dogs he lunged and snarled at) but she has become aggressive and attacked quite a few dogs recently, she never had an issue with Kiba so I thought they would be ok. I have no idea why the owner keeps putting her dog in the same situation. I have contacted a trainer who gave me contact info for more qualified trainers (she does not work with aggression) so fingers crossed . Thanks for the advice guys. Luckily he's seems perfectly happy to be around a few of his small friends and the dog he grew up with so he won't be too lonely. He does seem to still want to socialize, after some research though I missed some more not so obvious signs that he was stressed or showing fear with some of the larger and more energetic dogs.


You can contact the leasing office or whoever watches over the complex to report said owner. It's in my experience that these kinds of people don't learn and they certainly won't take responsibility if it ever came to their dog injuring another dog or even someone else.

There's one old man that goes to our dog park and his GSD is an absolute bully. That dog recently harassed another female Great Dane puppy enough that he ended up leaving wounds on her. I wasn't there when it happened, but this isn't the first time that this old man has been chastised about his dog's behavior. The guy is a knucklehead too because he gets a kick out of what his dog does to others and all he does is laugh. 

We've reported him and his dog to the rangers since it's a county park. Unfortunately, the guy has some property in the hills and he just walks his dog over so he doesn't go through the ticket booth like the rest of us. It's pretty obvious he's not on anyone's good side so it's more of a community effort to try and shun the man out as well.


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

Our Honey always got along great with dogs. . We brought her into a household with 3 goldens. Well, I guess she was 5 when I had to evacuate for Hurricane Rita in 2005. My youngest brother came down from Austin and took as much of our stuff as possible in his truck and also took our older golden, Buck, and I had Kaycee and Honey and our cat Pippi in my car. Buck was boarded up there as he could go over their low fence. My girls were in and out, as was their Bassett Hound. We had been there a couple of days and Honey was laying on the floor "froggy doggy" and her tail sweeping when she saw Belle coming ove. Suddenly Bell snarled and started running at her. Honey didn't even react. My brother grabbed Bell and put her outside. He was so mad. Was no reason for Belle to act that way. She had even taken food from Honey's bowl as Honey ate, so no problem between them.

Then a few months later I was at my vet's and Honey was laying like she always does, froggy stayle when a guy with fox hound came out of exam room--and that dog lunged at Honey snarling. She didn't get u but she did growl low at him.

months later, a guy brought in a cage with 3 rottie puppies. One spend all the time snarling at Honey, the other two sat there happy as larks. The last straw was when we were there a year or so later and we were sitting out front and a guy came out with a big lab and ig growled and aging at Honey--and she got up growling, fur standing up. After that, she would give low growls when a dog got withint a couple of feet of her, even it if was coming up to play or be nice. I started calling her an attack magnet. she had gone from the fun loving dog to one leery of any dog approaching her. she never tried to attack, but she gave warning.

Okay, now about tyroid. Our first golden, Scooter, started having fur loss, put on weight, started sleeping a lot, and he started growing at the kids next door. They wre monsters and we figured they were getting up on picnic table and throwing things at him over the 6 foot fence. Vet trip--low thyroid. Meds and diet food--lsost eht weight, fur came back thick, lots of energy and no longer growling at the boys next door. Fast forward several years, his brother Buck was about 10 and needed a dental. Had a panel done and the vet--and us--were shocked to learn he was very low thyroid, lower than Scooter had been. And he didn't have a single symptom. Oh, they were full brothers but different litters. 

So it is hard for me to say what to do first. I saw Scooter's reaction to kids when he was low thyroid, and saw where Buck didn't even have a symptom. I saw Honey changed from the "I want to play with you "dog to the "stay back from me" dog after dogs had gone after her so many times, tho none had gotten hold of her.


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## Kris L (Mar 2, 2013)

I am tempted to report her to be honest. But she does not get a kick out of it like that guy. Actually she gets pretty upset and usually grabs her by the harness, pins her down with her hand on her dogs head and tells her no. Then either leaves or puts her in the separate part of the park. She is trying to fix it but has not taken her dog to a trainer. Noone has really said much to her, although I did casually tell her about the dog behavialist who did wonders with my sisters dogs anxiety with noises and hit the nail on the head on what the problem was after working with him for two hours. And was nice enough to give Kiba and I more effective ways to teach him not to jump. (He jumped on her), which made her have to stay a good half hour longer to still work the actual dog we called her for. I don't think it had much effect, wired part is her dog has gotten a little better. I thought she probably learned her lesson when her dog went for kiba like that but I guess not, and now my boys paying the price. On top of that she's rehoming an 8 month old dog who her dog has now attacked at least three times I know of. Luckily her dog has not actually broke skin on another dog. I am hoping she does seek a trainer though because her dog was also really nice before she started this. Kiba has an appointment in a week so I will bring it up with him and see what he thinks.


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## Kris L (Mar 2, 2013)

Update if anyone wanted to know. The trainer said he was showing a lot of avoidance, fearful and stress behaviors (with his calm dogs), but its not to the point I have to really worry about it (no BAT classes or anything). The problem was Kiba was giving signals and taking a time out that I did not recognize, and when the dogs would not give him his space he panicked and snapped. So I need to keep him around steady eddies, and small dogs with good social skills to build his confidence again. (he's still good with small dogs and pups) he actually did pretty well and even played a bit with the other dogs, at least he did not snap. No more dog parks. I will never do them again. He also showed that he wanted to socialize.


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