# Nervous about getting a Golden-- have always had German Shepherds



## Stay_Golden (Jun 10, 2014)

I hope this post is in the correct place. I am new to this forum and do not want to post incorrectly or upset any mods or members. 

I'm Melissa. I currently share my home with my husband and my son (6) and a rescued house rabbit ( she is only out when supervised and is litter-trained) we also have a green cheek conure (small parrot) and a cockatiel. All of the animals we have now are secondhand and came to us as rescues. 

My history with dogs is as follows:

I rescued a black shepherd and CGC'd her + and we did therapy work for a few years on Miami Beach. She died of natural causes at 11 when my son was a baby. While she was still working I got an eight (?) week old German Shep pup (German lines) and he lived with me for ten years until last May. I euthanized him for compassionate reasons -- he was terribly arthritic and it was one of the most difficult things I've done. 

My husband and I are considering a Golden now and have appointments to see a half dozen breeders in the coming weeks. I know a bit about these dogs, not nearly as much as I know about GSD's but, I am a relatively proficient clicker trainer with rabbits, birds and especially dogs.

I'd like some insight on what I should expect as far as puppyhood goes with a herding breed like a GSD vs. a sporting like a Golden. My puppy shepherd, Jack, was a horrorshow puppy and it took years for me to overcome my own shortcomings as both a trainer and the amount of exercise he required. He had tremendous prey drive/territorial issues and it is an understatement to say he was way too much dog for me in the beginning.

We worked through it, I became a runner and learned many aspects of dog behavior. I became decent at clicker training and was able to clicker both of the birds and the rabbit through a whole bunch of ISSUES, lol.

Anywho-- before I spin this into an even more boring novel--

Should I treat a Golden puppy the same as a Shepherd puppy?
NILF (Nothing in Life is Free) ?

I crate train, my husband runs and we are devotees to Karen Pryor (clicker training has saved us from madness)

Should I socialize a golden puppy *as much as possible? *
Dog parks?

What are some behavioral issues I should look out for-- prey drive/children/territory/food territory/child aggression etc ?

Thanks very much for your insight and thanks so much for reading.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Goldens can run the full spectrum from lazy-super hyper, it all depends on the parents and the dogs personality. I think most of the people here would say that goldens are the best dogs ever. If you get a well bred puppy and properly socialize, you should have absolutely no problem with kids or child aggression. But you should always supervise dogs and kids. Goldens can have resource guarding problems, and they tend to put everything in their mouth, including hands so you should search here about those issues. Goldens are people dogs and will always be indoor dogs and want to be with their people. I don't really understand you NILF training, can you explain?


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

I can't stress enough how important to get a well bred puppy from parents with all clearances and preferably titles in whatever venue you'd prefer. Pick a puppy who's parents are the type of dog you'd like to have.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

ArchersMom said:


> I can't stress enough how important to get a well bred puppy from parents with all clearances and preferably titles in whatever venue you'd prefer. Pick a puppy who's parents are the type of dog you'd like to have.


I agree. You will increase your odds of success by concentrating on breeders who do more than just conformation with their dogs. I would definitely try to start talking to some breeders who concentrate on obedience at the very least and discuss what you have in mind for your dog. Take your time and have fun with your research, I think you will really enjoy learning from some of the people you meet.

I have to put my daughter to bed, I will look for a link to a thread where people gave suggestions on good performance breeders and add it here in a bit. 

I think you will be fine with a Golden given that you have the background and experience, especially with the last puppy being high maintenance. You will find that the mouthy stage lasts longer, much longer probably, with a retriever. But the shedding won't be any worse and you will be delighted with the desire to please that a nice Golden will have. NILIF is smart no matter what breed you're dealing with. I think you will be delighted with adding a Golden to your family


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

Not completely objective of course but IMHO Goldens are just the best . . . good looking, intelligent, trainable and most important loving and empathetic. A well bred Golden should have a great temperament, easy going with humans of all ages and other dogs, never aggressive. Having said all that, they do shed and there are Goldens with health and temperament problems. Goldens can be mouthy and very active as puppies. I second the recommendation of looking for breeders who compete in venues beside just conformation but be aware that Goldens bred for field or performance tend to be "higher energy" needing more exercise but some would argue also more intelligent. It seems to me that Goldens connect with people in a special way making them a great family member and very often used for therapy work.


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## PrincessDaisy (Dec 20, 2011)

Goldens have had agression largly bred out. In the field or their working-envrionment-by-training (conformation, field, obedience, agility, dock diving), Goldens have drive, intense but different from the prey drive of a shepard or dobie.

Good luck.


Max


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Here is the link I was thinking of:

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...breeder-puppy/124618-preeminent-breeders.html


I was thinking about your questions again, yes, socialize the heck out of your dog - any breed needs this. I am personally not a fan of dog parks because there are so many people there who aren't watching their dogs and bring dogs with questionable background/temperament there. I prefer to socialize with friends or neighbors dogs who I know. Goldens are hunting dogs and so they will have prey drive. Not sure that I would have a pet bunny with a Golden. I'd be so worried about an accident occurring. The mouthiness can be a hassle with kids and since I have 3 and my Ellie is just over a year, I keep the stairs gated and our toy room door closed so that the temptation to steal toys or dirty socks is minimized. She goes up with me and no longer steals shoes etc but does love to get a paper cup out of the trash and bring it to me for attention. 

Not sure how you found the breeders you are visiting, but I just wanted to emphasize again finding someone who is doing some performance with their Goldens. It will help you have a better chance of ending up with a very smart, focused dog who wants to please you… Keep us posted


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## goldy1 (Aug 5, 2012)

Goldens are great.

We always had German Shepherds too. They are wonderful in a very different way. Loyal, intelligent, but in general, serious. 

I had always wanted the happy-go-lucky spirit I saw in the Goldens I knew. 

Having no need or wish for a watch dog (this is one BIG difference between the breeds), when my last GSD died, we got my Golden. He is the most wonderful boy, more wonderful than I could ever have hoped or imagined.

Much "softer". I never need to speak sharply and he is always happy and trying to please. He has a great sense of humor and makes us laugh daily.

Go for it.


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## Stay_Golden (Jun 10, 2014)

Thanks for the wonderful replies. 

We have been looking at titled/agility/etc breeders. I have always kinda felt you tend to get what you pay for up front with a dog. That being said, my Shep came from a line that was CRAZY with prey drive, and it was way too much for me at first. HIGH MAINTENANCE was the word for every day, lol. I ended up spending a solid hour running with him on the beach every am and then even got him a treadmill, too. Then hours of walking nightly. Then we started doing hide and seek during days. My family is VERY active. My husband is a runner ( I blew out an ankle ) and we hike very often. 

NILF (Nothing is Life is Free) means a dog is asked to sit/lay down/do a pirouette, anything before having it's food bowl set down, being taken out, leashed, anything. I also teach "wait" early on and "thirty minute down-stay" when my pups are very young. It kind of teaches that "stay" means "STAY" until released. 

I don't know if I mentioned that I work from home so the pup will be supervised/out with me all day. He/She will also learn to negotiate the buses and trains here as dogs are allowed, uncrated. I have no intentions of making Bunny it's buddy as, well, rabbits are prey animals. My shep did well with her but, that was likely luck and his advanced age. 

I wanted to ask if anyone had any prefernces/insight into temperament differences between males and females? I know that males are a good bit larger. I also know that, statistically-- most dog bites _overall_ are from male dogs. 

My shep (not the therapy certified female, the male of german lines) was INCREDIBLY mouthy as a puppy. I found that clicking when not mouthing and clicking a "sit" or other incompatible behavior helped. I also would remove myself from his presence when he'd get aggressive with it. It helped but, his training was a long road and I made many newbie mistakes (I was 24 when I got him) along the way.

Do you start your pups on a flat or slip collar? 

We will likely go look at a litter this weekend. I am so apprehensive. My husband is a marvelous trainer, and we are both on board but, having relatively little experience, I am always a bit of a fraidy cat with dogs I've only known friends to have. My parents have had two labs and I found them to be a bit, well, a bit stubborn. I housebroke, and taught their pup basic obedience and she was a good bit thicker in the head than I was used to. She's a lovely, sweet two year old now though, so, no complaints.

Again-- thanks so much. Any opinions on male vs. female and starter collar types are appreciated.

Best to you--
Melissa


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## kellyguy (Mar 5, 2014)

Welcome to the forums.
I've always had male goldens and can't offer first hand advice, but most breeders have confirmed my experience that males will tend to be affectionate and somewhat goofy at times while females are a bit more independent.
As someone else mentioned, goldens are not watch dogs and tend to be happy and excited to meet everyone they encounter. My first two boys were well trained for retrieving birds to hand and had very soft mouths. Rusty delivered to me a whole litter of baby bunnies one day, all perfectly unharmed except for a little drool. I don't know how they would react when a rabbit jumped and ran though. Chasing squirrels up a tree seems to be a universal trait though.
I'm a firm believer in using nothing but a plain flat collar for training and a halter harness to attach a long lead to when I'm training or walking.
Training methods have evolved quite a bit since my last puppy, so I'm reading and learning myself. (Still waiting for litter to be born).


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Welcome to the forum, glad you've joined us. 

I too think you will absolutely love having a Golden. I've had a few other breeds in my lifetime and like many other breeds. I currently have two, lost my Bridge boy three years ago at the age of 15.5, because of him I will always have Goldens. 

Wishing you the best of luck in your search for a Breeder and Puppy.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

My first breed of choice is the American Pit Bull Terrier hard to have in a multi dog household. I wanted to compete in hunt trails when I started with my search on breeds I had not settled on a Golden at first I looked at many different breeds, Jige would be the first dog I paid for all my other dogs were rescues. I couldn't be happier with my boy. He is a therapy/ reading dog. He has his UKC Started Title, a Total Dog Title 3 legs in Rally01, a Conformation Title. We love training together. Yes he is way different than my pit bulls in he is easy going fun loving but has tons of drive but yet leave the rabbits and fowl alone. I have free range chickens and he doesn't bother any of them. This spring I had wild rabbits in the yard and none of my dogs bothered them. 

As far as fear issues goes I read a lot on here about it so I took a proactive training on that and took Jige everyplace I could at least 4 times a week. If I saw something he had not seen I would take him up to it. I stop at Police stations, fire halls, mals ball parks, fishing docks. you name it we did it. Jige has no fear. With my new little rescue Waase I am doing the same thing.


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## Jamm (Mar 28, 2010)

I think one huge difference is that goldens can be more sensitive then GSDs. When Joey was around a year we did a 6 week training class at a school who primarily dealt with GSDs... the training methods they used did NOT work for Joey. Joey learns with positive reinforcement.. not a sharp tug on his leash. We dropped out after the 2nd class. 

I would treat your golden puppy the same as any puppy, lots of learning, fun socializing, and rewarding games. I would totally use the clicker and lots of positive reinforcement. 

Goodluck!


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

You may want to check out the Golden Retriever Club of America for information on Goldens. They also have a Puppy Referral, I've posted the links below for you.

Golden Retriever Club of America GRCA: The Official AKC National Breed Club

Puppy Referral-

Golden Retriever Puppies: GRCA Puppy Referral: Golden Retriever Club of America (GRCA) Find your Golden Retriever Pupppy Here


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

In my opinion, GSDs require an owner who can stay on top of them all the time. They are great, loyal dogs, but there is a lot of work involved in maintaining their training. Goldens, again, in my opinion, are much easier overall. Yes, you can occasionally get a crazy, wide-open one, but that's the exception rather than the rule. I've trained both and even though I think GSDs are great dogs, I definitely find the Goldens less likely to test the boundaries as much as GSDs do.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

One thing I would mention is that a golden puppy isn't what many people vision it to be. They see the adult dogs that are calm, sweet and gentle and can be shocked to find this little furball of all teeth and energy! We call golden puppies landsharks for a reason!


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## Goldendancer (Oct 22, 2008)

Be very careful about taking a Golden puppy to Dog Parks. There are a lot of adult dogs that will chase and or attack puppies which will then give your Golden a lifetime of fear or aggression towards other dogs. 

Look for puppy play groups and watch that the puppies are having a good time. Be in charge to change things up if a puppy is not having a good time as that can result in not liking other dogs. Take a break if it is getting too rough and a puppy is not having a good time. 

Look for puppy training classes where the pups can play supervised between each very short training lesson.

Its best if you can find a similar size similar age playmate puppy to have play sessions with. Goldens do seem to prefer playing with other goldens over other breeds but that all depends.

Also, consider adopting an adult or senior Golden from Golden rescue. So many great older Goldens that really appreciate getting a home and you don't have to go thru the whole puppy thing. Puppies are great but a lot of work. There is such a need to find so many unwanted senior Goldens homes, and those I know that have adopted senior goldens have really enjoyed the great companionship. 

Search Golden Retriever Rescue, your city your state, to find the local Goldens. They usually have Meet N Greet days where you can meet many of the Goldens both puppies to seniors to find a match that fits into your family.

When my senior passes on, knock on wood, hopefully we have another 5 years if we are really lucky. I will adopt only senior goldens. Having a senior Golden is wonderful. I loved our young years but now has been a golden time for us. 

Senior dogs make for wonderful companions and won't need all that major exercise and training classes the young ones will need. 

My senior wants to go hiking or to the beach daily, but it is easier.

I want to give other senior goldens a great quality of life for however much time we may have.


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## Leslie B (Mar 17, 2011)

While I have never had a GSD I started out with shelties and know some of the pit falls of the herding breeds.

Like a GSD, a golden puppy can be a terror. Mouthy is the primary complaint but that is quickly followed by general household destruction. I am down by 2 couches from the dogs. I try to determine if it is being mouthy or biting. Biting is prohibited but since these are bird dogs - the desire to hold something in their mouths is very instinctive. Work with it instead of against it. Teaching a good retrieve can help to burn energy and satisfy the need to carry something.

Goldens have a low guard instinct so they do not tend to be territorial. They welcome the local burglers with glee and joy along with the neighbor kids and your family. They also have low boundaries for who is in their family. Anyone can join and they tend to transfer easily into a new family. This is a trait that makes them popular as service dogs. They don't pine away for the family left behind. It also means that your dog will happiliy go off with some stranger who is nice to him. 

That bird dog nose can get them into real trouble. They can follow their nose for miles without any reguard to where they end up or what roads they cross to get there. Containment is a must because they will not stay on the porch like a dog with a clear territory.

While the golden is generally much softer than a GSD but can be more challenging to train. It is easier to apply pressure to get the dog to respond. It is harder to get the dog to respond with limited pressure. Be sure to use the NILF method because it is a great method for every dog. 

Good Luck and Welcome to the forum


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## janababy (Jan 2, 2012)

Welcome to the forum. I personally found a HUGH difference between a German Shepherd and a Golden. This is our second Golden. Before that, we had had 3 shepherds (not all the at the same time}. I personally found the shepherds much more easy to train than the Goldens. We has a trainer out to help us with our first Golden. She said that a Shepherd would die for you, a Golden, not so much. LOL!!!!! It sounds like you have some great training behind you, that will go along way when you train a Golden. Wishing you well with your search.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

Jennifer1 said:


> One thing I would mention is that a golden puppy isn't what many people vision it to be. They see the adult dogs that are calm, sweet and gentle and can be shocked to find this little furball of all teeth and energy! We call golden puppies landsharks for a reason!


As Tayla was the worst puppy imaginable, I can second this. She is a high drive dog and we had never experienced this before. She was all mouth and teeth as a puppy until almost a year old. I don't know I'd ever do a Golden puppy again, but she has grown into a fun dog that I wouldn't trade for the world. But she was a ton of work. Lily, our adopted 5 year old, is just the opposite. Calm and gentle until you put her on a lure course and then she is all about drive and chase. Got to love the different personalities.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

I think the key is to figure out what you want from a Golden and then find a breeder who excels in that.

We have many different focuses in our breed, that is a great thing. It means that the Golden is a dog that can excel in many different sports. I would never penalize a breeder for choosing to focus in a single direction such as only competing in hunt/field, only in agility, only in obedience, only in conformation, only in tracking, only in dock diving, etc. There are many breeders who don't have the time, money or desire to compete in every venue even when the dog clearly has the talent. If you want an "all a rounder" there are breeders out there who produce dogs that can compete successfully in many different venues. They are also amazing breeders who have made this a goal. Every breeder just has different goals, but as long as that goal contains health testing, trying to breed a better Golden, and proving their dog in some venue, they are all doing a good job. It is just down to find which one shares your idea of what is important in a Golden.

If you are looking for a dog that will carry traits for a particular discipline find a breeder that has that trait in their adult dogs. There is a breeder for every one, find one that has what you want. Remember that what I want in a dog may be very different from what you want in a dog so, first define what traits are important to you in a Golden, then find a breeder that has it. 

No matter what breeder you choose, always do your due diligence when it comes to the health clearances of your puppy's parents. Your best chance for a healthy puppy will be with a breeder who does the core four health clearances. Here is a good resource on them Canine Health Information Center: CHIC Information. 

If you are unsure what you are looking for with the clearances or just want a double check, you can post the potential parent names and we can help. Good luck in your search.


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## Stay_Golden (Jun 10, 2014)

You all have the most GORGEOUS dogs. Wow. 

I'm stepping away from the breeder I was going to visit this weekend. She just seems to have too many puppies right now and after running a search found her on a number of sites I'd not get a dog from. That may sound snotty, I admit but, in my experience, reputable breeders generally don't do a whole lot of advertising....

The search continues!


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## Stay_Golden (Jun 10, 2014)

Any opinions about these guys?

NewEnglandGoldens.com

I'm looking to do therapy work again, maybe agility/obedience.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Okay, not a lot to go on. 
No registered names. If you had them we could plug them in here Orthopedic Foundation for Animals to see the Heath clearances on the parents if they have any. 

Here are my thoughts/ opinions based on this quote from the website...
"Included with your
Golden Retriever Puppy...

AKC Registration Papers
AKC Champion Pedigree Documents
Health Certificates & Up to Date Vaccinations
Your Vet Exam Guarantee
Genetic & Congenital Guarantee
Excellent References
Great Temperament - Socialized
Our Training Level-1 Completed"

1. A champion pedigree does not mean much if the accomplishments don't belong to the mom and dad. Even puppy mill mommas will sometimes have champions way back there and can make this same claim.

2. It seems the health certifications are for the puppy not the parents, so I am thinking it might be an initial well puppy check "certificate" that does not tell you much. If it is the parents get this info before you are looking into the eyes of a cute puppy and verify it.

3. What kind of congenital/genetic guarantee? Until what age? Does it require the return of your now beloved pet for a replacement? Would you want another puppy from them if your dog had a severe issue?

4. Great temperament I would hope so but you would need to meet the parents as puppies do not have their adult temperament. Socialized, how? What have they been exposed to? Inside the house? Outside? Different types of people? Noises? Surfaces? 

5. training level 1? I don't even know what that means. Usually I see this as an attempt to justify a higher price for a puppy who should cost less based on parents lack of accomplishments, health testing, etc. I pay $40 for 6 weeks of Puppy Kindergarten. So, if this training raises what should be about 400-600 (what I would consider a fair price for an AKC registered Golden with nothing else) puppy to around $2000, I don't see the value.


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

Welcome to the forum! I have a 6 month old Golden sitting under my feet right now and he's my first after having had 3 GSDs. My first 2 GSDs came from a not-so-great breeder, and my first male in particular had aggression and anxiety issues and was definitely a lot of work his whole life (I did love him very much though). My third GSD, who is also sitting in the room with me, came from a fantastic breeder of working line dogs, and he's a good boy but he requires a great deal of work as well. His energy levels are through the roof (although he settles at home very nicely) and he's got quite a bit of drive. By comparison, my Golden is a piece of cake. Seriously, I get compliments from random strangers all the time about how nice Will (my Golden pup) is and how I must be working so hard with him, and I tell them it's not me, he's just like this!

This probably has a lot to do with the stage of life I am in now vs when I first got GSDs, but I am unlikely to get any other breed of dog besides a Golden again. Will is every bit as smart as my GSDs and so easy to train, but he's laid back and he loves everyone. He's happy to get up and go and do whatever I want to do, but he doesn't need it the way a GSD does (he does, however, need lots of time with his people - that's his happy place). Granted, I am sure a lot of this comes from his breeding. If he were a field bred dog I might be singing a different tune. 

You mentioned how you have to raise GSDs with the "nothing in life is free" approach and I have done the same with my GSDs, but it just hasn't been necessary with Will. I feel like when I ask Huck (my 3 year old GSD) to do something, if he could talk, he'd say, "Okay, Mom. But make me." When I ask Will to do something, if he could talk he'd say, "Okay, Mom, sure! I can do that! What are we going to do next for fun?!" Will is just silly and has the best sense of humor to boot!

So that's kind of my take on GSDs vs Goldens. As for the breeder you posted a link to, I've never heard of them so I can't comment, but I will say, as other forum members have, that doing your research and making sure you get a pup from someone reputable and ethical is absolutely essential. You're in New England? There are lots of great breeders up there. How far are you willing to travel?


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## Stay_Golden (Jun 10, 2014)

I found this one
ThorneLea Golden Retrievers - Pelham New Hampshire

She won't have any until December BUT her friend has a few 5 month old pups out of two of her studs. These pups are in the same 2K price range but seem justified to be as the pedigree/titles on the Thornlea males (O Henry and James Bond) these pups are out of seem pretty serious. I'm not well-versed with American titles etc, as my GSD was German.

I like your questions. I'm 86'ng that breeder. 

We're willing to travel as far as need be. It's a pretty long commitment!  Recommendations are VERY WELCOME!!!!


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

Do you have info on the dams of the litters out of the Thornlea studs?


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## CStrong73 (Jun 11, 2012)

Hi and Welcome!

Our first dog was a GSD/Rottie mix. We currently have our first Golden. AND up until a year ago, we also had a pet bunny. 

First off, from my own personal experience, both the GSD mix and Golden were very mouthy as puppies. The biggest difference was that the Golden has a MUCH softer mouth. He nipped and chewed on us constantly for the first 6 months, but never drew blood. The GSD mix left scars all over my arms!

Now, some of this is because we got the GSD mix in college and she lived in my husband (then boyfriend)s fraternity house. But, in general, the GSD mix was a horrible chewer. She ate a whole couch down to the frame,a Ralph Lauren comforter, a door frame. She was basically a nightmare until she turned two. Then it was like someone flipped a switch. I think she was just generally too smart, and too much dog for an inexperienced new owner, as we were. She was a dream to house train. Actually, I don't know if she ever had an accident in the house. And boy was she just the smartest dog I've ever seen! She wasn't one for strangers, and I loved that I could walk alone at night with her without worrying about anyone bothering me. People kept their distance when they saw her.

Our Golden was mouthy, like I said, but he has always had a soft mouth. He's never drawn blood. He's never been much of a chewer, and outgrew the mouthy phase much more quickly than the GSD mix. He is much more sensitive than the GSD mix. All it takes for a correction is a loud voice. He is a snuggler and loves everyone. He DOES still act as a watch dog. He barks when he hears any out of place noise at night. Which I love since my hubby travels a lot. Now, if someone actually broke into the house, he would probably lick them to death, or beat them with his wagging tail, LOL! But he's got a great bark that would scare most would-be intruders away. 
When I am out with the Golden, though, rather than scaring people away as the GSD mix did, he draws people to me. I constantly have people of all ages (but especially kids) wanting to meet and pet him.

As for the rabbit, we kept the dog and bunny separated. Our bunny lived in a hutch in the backyard in the summer (basement playroom in the winter). We would let him out to hop around the back yard, separated from the dog by a small wrought-iron fence, maybe 2 feet tall. The dog would perk up and definitely want to chase the bunny, but I really don't think he would have actually hurt it if he caught it. And for the most part, they just ignored each other. 

While I love GSD's, I think I will pretty much be a Golden kinda gal from now on. I just love the fun personality of the golden. They are more goofy, fun and happy-go-lucky than the GSD.

Good luck in your breeder search. I can't wait to hear what you think of the two breeds once you have your golden pup!


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## Stay_Golden (Jun 10, 2014)

i don't. I know they are all eye/heart and hip "certified" (or whatever it is referred to, eesh, I'm a bit of a layman) but I do not know if they are titled.

Too much $$$ if both parents are not titled?

She had three litters and has pups from all three that did not sell.


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## Stay_Golden (Jun 10, 2014)

> She ate a whole couch down to the frame,a Ralph Lauren comforter, a door frame.


My GSD male ate an entire spindle of CD's while I was in the shower. I lived on South Beach and my ex hub had to drive home from Kendall with the car. I fed him an entire packet of cotton balls soaked in milk (vet's advice) until we got him into the vet about an hour and a half later. Didn't actually swallow one sliver. 

That ended my rap-phase. 

I think it was a message.


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

Stay_Golden said:


> i don't. I know they are all eye/heart and hip "certified" (or whatever it is referred to, eesh, I'm a bit of a layman) but I do not know if they are titled.
> 
> Too much $$$ if both parents are not titled?
> 
> She had three litters and has pups from all three that did not sell.


If you have the registered names of the dams you can verify clearances on offa.org and k9data.com and you can also look at pedigrees to get a better idea of what to expect out of one of the pups (based on what titles are in the pedigree). 

Too much money? That's hard to answer. Especially since you are in New England and the going rate for a well bred pup tends to be a bit higher. But am I understanding this correctly? That there was this one person with three bitches and she bred them all at the same time to Thornlea studs and they did not all sell?


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Stay_Golden said:


> She won't have any until December BUT her friend has a few 5 month old pups out of two of her studs. These pups are in the same 2K price range but seem justified to be as the pedigree/titles on the Thornlea males (O Henry and James Bond)


I know her by reputation only and everything I have seen and heard has been good. You are right about the boys. Nice accomplishments and full clearances on them. 

Here are some links for them so you can research
Bond-
Pedigree: Am/Can CH ThorneLea Bond...James Bond
Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

Henry-
Pedigree: CH ThorneLea Oh Henry TD
Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

If the mom's are also of this same caliber in the accomplishment and clearances department, I know I would be interested


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Golden temperament, energy level, drive, prey drive, etc. runs a huge range. I've only had one golden that I would have a bird with. The rest no way would I have owned a bird and a dog at the same time. Nothing in Life is Free I use with my young girl Lucy right now. I've never had to do that type of training with my other goldens. Lucy is a harder dog training wise, so I've had to go with a very firm line, which none of my other goldens required. Goldens very pretty dramatically. 2 of my current goldens have no field breeding in the last 5 generations, but are very birdy, and I do field work with them. So wouldn't rely on a pedigree to tell you that the dog will do X, goldens are very versatile dogs. Energy levels also vary quit a bit as you've heard.

I to have owned a GSD. I thought she was easy to train. She was also a one person dog, whereas goldens will go home with anyone. My GSD really wanted to please me. She did pine away when I wasn't home. She was a bit hard on the cats I had trying to herd them all the time. My goldens like the neighborhood cats and never hurt them.

Most goldens will kill birds and small mammals like mice. Sometimes they eat them sometimes not. So it's a different kind of prey drive than a GSD prey drive.

I've had goldens that were super quick and easy to train, some that were not. Two of mine I have right now you just talk to and explain what you want and they try their best to do what you ask. My girl is a pain in the neck and only wants to do what she wants to do, hence the NILF training.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

here are the GRC in your area. I would start with their puppy referrals. Still check the clearances, but they are more likely to have them
Yankee Golden Retriever Club
Puppy Referral - Green Mountain Golden Retriever Club


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## Stay_Golden (Jun 10, 2014)

I am unsure why the Thornlea pups did not sell.

I called and got the names. This may all be pointless as she seems unwilling to hold any (with a hefty deposit after I meet and handle the dogs) until July 1. My husband has a proposal due on a telescope. He's swamped. We want to enjoy this together, as a family.  He's never had a dog of his own (I had my sheps prior to meeting him, he loved them but, they were "my" dogs, in a way)


Anyway:

MALES AVAILABLE:

1. CH ThorneLea OH Henry TD x Daisy Hill's Martha Speaks
2. AM CAN CH ThorneLea Bond...James Bond x Daisy Hill's Snow White

FEMALES AVAILABLE 

1. AM CAN CH ThorneLea Bond...James Bond x Daisy Hill's Honey Bun
2. CH ThorneLea OH Henry TD x Daisy Hill's Baby's Best
3. CH ThorneLea OH Henry TD x Daisy Hill's Baby's Best

All dogs available may not be registered as far as eyes. She has vet contacts, she assured me?

Whatcha think?

I'll admit, I feel a bit discouraged.


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## Stay_Golden (Jun 10, 2014)

Jennifer1 said:


> here are the GRC in your area. I would start with their puppy referrals. Still check the clearances, but they are more likely to have them
> Yankee Golden Retriever Club
> Puppy Referral - Green Mountain Golden Retriever Club


I sent them an email earlier, thanks for that! I got pretty excited at the idea of a five month old but--- just not meant to be, maybe.

Breeder is sleeping on a July 1 pick-up (this is assuming I even liked one of the dogs )


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## jaina8851 (Apr 19, 2014)

Stay_Golden said:


> My parents have had two labs and I found them to be a bit, well, a bit stubborn. I housebroke, and taught their pup basic obedience and she was a good bit thicker in the head than I was used to. She's a lovely, sweet two year old now though, so, no complaints.


No one has commented on this yet, but in my experience, there is a world of difference between a lab and a Golden... my parents had a Golden when I was growing up and it made me never want another breed. After she died, they adopted a one year old lab from a family member. She was very sweet, but... as you say, a bit thick in the head : 

My husband and I just got our first puppy a month ago and it has been so wonderful. Neither of us have ever trained a puppy before, since I was a kid the last time my family had a puppy, and it's been challenging, but he is so sweet and eager to please. As someone else said, when we tell him to do something, it's as if he is saying "Okay! I can do that! Let me show you how well I can do that! What are we going to do next!?" We have been working very hard with clicker training and NILIF since day one.

So far (and believe me, I am acutely aware of how this might change in a few months :crossfing ) he hasn't been that mouthy, but if his teeth do ever touch our skin, it is usually barely hard enough to even hurt, let alone break the skin. 

I hope you find the perfect puppy for you!! We are in RI, we got our boy from Sunfire. I'm not sure if she has any more litters planned, but she also is the puppy referral person for a GR club in Connecticut. The one in MA might be closer for you though! Good luck!!


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

Stay_Golden said:


> I am unsure why the Thornlea pups did not sell.
> 
> I called and got the names. This may all be pointless as she seems unwilling to hold any (with a hefty deposit after I meet and handle the dogs) until July 1. My husband has a proposal due on a telescope. He's swamped. We want to enjoy this together, as a family.  He's never had a dog of his own (I had my sheps prior to meeting him, he loved them but, they were "my" dogs, in a way)
> 
> ...


I can't find any of the Daisy Hills dogs on k9data or offa. Are you sure of the spelling? I would want to see clearances on paper on eyes, hips, elbows and hearts. A breeder telling me she didn't have clearances but has "vet contacts" would be a red flag.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

I looked on k9data for the two dams and didn't find either. A quick google of Daisy Hill turned up this prior GRF thread _goldenretrieverforum.com/choosing-golden-retriever-breeder-puppy/134418-breeder-question_


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## Stay_Golden (Jun 10, 2014)

CharlieBear80 said:


> I can't find any of the Daisy Hills dogs on k9data or offa. Are you sure of the spelling? I would want to see clearances on paper on eyes, hips, elbows and hearts. A breeder telling me she didn't have clearances but has "vet contacts" would be a red flag.


She said she used to post clearances but no longer does? I thought it was weird too? I'm going to read the linked forum post referencing those dogs... Sigh.


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## Stay_Golden (Jun 10, 2014)

TheZ's said:


> I looked on k9data for the two dams and didn't find either. A quick google of Daisy Hill turned up this prior GRF thread _goldenretrieverforum.com/choosing-golden-retriever-breeder-puppy/134418-breeder-question_


There's not anything really out there. She swears her dogs are checked but, I can't really think of a reason a breeder wouldn't register them? None of the females are titled, as far as I can tell. 

I found a blog about one of her pups, sold at three months in 2012. Pretty dog. I couldn't gather from my snooping who she was out of. 

I'll be honest, I feel that 2K is a bit high for an older dog lacking full certification on the bitch's side. Is that wrong? Also, although I'm not puppy-crazy, most people are. These guys are nearly six months old. That does mean that they are up to date on everything except rabies BUT she did mention that they were not FULLY house trained. My sheps were at that age, as was my parent's (lovely but umm "thick") lab. Then again, I've always believed you can't truly trust a pup with that until 9-12 months... I digress, and, I'm rambling.

Thoughts? 

Thx for being patient with me.


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Stay_Golden said:


> BUT she did mention that they were not FULLY house trained. My sheps were at that age, as was my parent's (lovely but umm "thick") lab. Then again, I've always believed you can't truly trust a pup with that until 9-12 months... I digress, and, I'm rambling.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Thx for being patient with me.


My family has had goldens for close to 40 years and we average about 3 accidents in the house when potty training. I wouldn't expect them to hold it as long as an adult, but imho I would think they should be fully house trained by then. Does she keep them kenneled a lot? Why is she selling them?


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

Stay_Golden said:


> I'll be honest, I feel that 2K is a bit high for an older dog lacking full certification on the bitch's side. Is that wrong? Also, although I'm not puppy-crazy, most people are. These guys are nearly six months old. That does mean that they are up to date on everything except rabies BUT she did mention that they were not FULLY house trained. My sheps were at that age, as was my parent's (lovely but umm "thick") lab. Then again, I've always believed you can't truly trust a pup with that until 9-12 months... I digress, and, I'm rambling.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Thx for being patient with me.


Regardless of price, I would not purchase a puppy that came from parents lacking in clearances AT ALL.


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## Jamm (Mar 28, 2010)

Have you tried contacting your local golden retriever club? Maybe a training club as well? They might have breeder referrals or know of breeders by word of mouth. 

Yankee Golden Retriever Club

Found that by googling Boston goldens.


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## Stay_Golden (Jun 10, 2014)

Eowyn said:


> My family has had goldens for close to 40 years and we average about 3 accidents in the house when potty training. I wouldn't expect them to hold it as long as an adult, but imho I would think they should be fully house trained by then. Does she keep them kenneled a lot? Why is she selling them?


I'm sorry y'all, I'm on my phone & I'm not sure how to multi-quote here yet. Anywho- yeah, I kinda got the impression that they were being kenneled a lot. She mentioned "they make it from their crates out the door fine" and "I don't let them have full run of my house."


It did strike me as odd but, I was hesitant to judge. She's bred to a pretty reputable stud, I can't imagine she'd be neglecting valuable dogs or any dogs, for that matter? 

I let a litter trained rabbit run around and, my birds are free range at times too so, I'm clearly a bit of a nutter...


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## Stay_Golden (Jun 10, 2014)

Jamm said:


> Have you tried contacting your local golden retriever club? Maybe a training club as well? They might have breeder referrals or know of breeders by word of mouth.
> 
> Yankee Golden Retriever Club
> 
> Found that by googling Boston goldens.


I emailed the attached email for the club, I assume they take a bit to get back. Thanks for that! Btw, Joey's just got the sweetest face!!!


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## Stay_Golden (Jun 10, 2014)

CharlieBear80 said:


> Regardless of price, I would not purchase a puppy that came from parents lacking in clearances AT ALL.


I'd buy a pup from a rescue (they avg. around $350-$500 donation) or an AKC'd GR for around that without clearance. 

2K though? Ehhhhh. 

Here's the story on why she's selling them:
These guys were born in winter. She bred all 3 of her bitches to Thornlea assuming one or two wouldn't get pregnant. All did. She told me that with the bitter winter, people just didn't come out to see them. Now they're 6 months old, almost & she's impatient. I mentioned that we would want to visit in about a week and possibly put a hold deposit if we liked a dog & pick up in July- July 1st. My husband is a researcher at Harvard and he's in the middle of a huge proposal for the astrophysics department & we want to do this as a family, not just me picking out the dog. Anyway. She doesn't like this idea and is "sleeping on it."

I think I might just get a mutt from the pound. I have had some real hassles with breeders over the past two-three weeks.


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

Stay_Golden said:


> I'd buy a pup from a rescue (they avg. around $350-$500 donation) or an AKC'd GR for around that without clearance.
> 
> 2K though? Ehhhhh.
> 
> ...


Based on the lack of clearances and how it sounds these dogs have been kept, I'd look elsewhere. Also, breeding to a reputable stud isn't always an indication of a good breeding (unfortunately). You'd have to dig a little deeper to get the full picture on that, is my guess. 

If you want to rescue a shelter dog, that's great! But if you want a purebred GR, you may have to do lots of research, contact lots of breeders (some of who you will not hear back from or just won't mesh with) and be willing to wait. When I was researching and looking for the right breeder/litter last fall, I about drove myself nuts. But in the end it was worth it because I got a fantastic pup from a woman that I believe is doing right by the breed and that I can maintain a decade+ long relationship with.


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## Stay_Golden (Jun 10, 2014)

CharlieBear80 said:


> Based on the lack of clearances and how it sounds these dogs have been kept, I'd look elsewhere. Also, breeding to a reputable stud isn't always an indication of a good breeding (unfortunately). You'd have to dig a little deeper to get the full picture on that, is my guess.
> 
> If you want to rescue a shelter dog, that's great! But if you want a purebred GR, you may have to do lots of research, contact lots of breeders (some of who you will not hear back from or just won't mesh with) and be willing to wait. When I was researching and looking for the right breeder/litter last fall, I about drove myself nuts. But in the end it was worth it because I got a fantastic pup from a woman that I believe is doing right by the breed and that I can maintain a decade+ long relationship with.


I love shelter dogs. I love rescues. All of my other animals ( parrots + rabbit) are rescues. Some shelter animals are dumped because their owners get into bad situations & the dogs are great and need minimal work. Some rescued animals need maximum work. That may not be a popular opinion.

Both of my parrots and the rabbit were a good bit of work. All were neglected and it took quite a bit of creative clicker work to move past their issues. It was definitely worth it but, I'll be brutally frank and admit that it would be nice to start with a blank slate. I know all animals have inherited personalities, traits, etc, but- I have a method and it would be really nice to just work with a puppy, knowing what it's complete history is, etc. 

Having re-read that, it sounds harsh. Please know that I do support a number of parrot and rabbit rescues with my business (I've donated regularly) and, although I'd like to do what many might view as the most noble option and adopt a dog, I just don't truly feel that would be the best thing for us right now. 

Having dug around on the internet more, and re-read this thread, I'm not going to go see the Thornlea x Daisy Hill pups. 

Some fluffy boy or girl, better suited to us, will come along. 

Thanks again for your patience and salient points. 
Best,
Melissa


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I too used to have GSD's, one rescue and one that I raised from a puppy. Lost both of them at 9 years old to cancer of the spleen. 

Now I have three golden retrievers. As much as I loved my GSDs, owning them was a liability. First of all, my home insurance company dropped me. If I wanted to be insured if they bit, I had to go to a state pool and buy a special binder. Secondly, they were very protective, had to be very careful when we had people to the house. I could not really take them out in public, because many people are afraid of them. One of mine had fear aggression, so that did not help when people were afraid.

Smart wise, are think the two breeds are comparable. Goldens are more trustworthy when it comes to other animals, they are everybody's friend and every species friend. I do have one that has a high prey drive, the other two don't.

I think both breeds are mouthy as puppies.

I do think having a golden with a family is easier.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I tried to look at the rescues in Mass and could not find one that I could adopt from for three reasons, 1) I had a child under 6 years old, 2) I did not have a physical fence, only invisible and 3) I worked full time.


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## Stay_Golden (Jun 10, 2014)

cubbysan said:


> I tried to look at the rescues in Mass and could not find one that I could adopt from for three reasons, 1) I had a child under 6 years old, 2) I did not have a physical fence, only invisible and 3) I worked full time.



UGh.  I just lost my last reply. 

ANYWHOOZIT.

I so appreciate all the insight I have rcv'd from everyone here, especially on the issue of finding a breeder. When Jack and Rye came into my life it was prior to the internet age being really hot and I was clueless to the sheer numbers of well, ...... that are out there. 

This guy:
NewEnglandGoldens.com
sent me 2 emails within a few hrs. but, when questioned about titles and clearances went radio silent. :doh:

I found a pup I thought was a "farm dog" but then found out that the individual was, essentially, functioning as a mill and breeding ALL TYPES of dogs. It looks to me like she fakes a lot of the positive reviews because they are INSANELY glowing as opposed to the negative ones which are HOLY HORRORSHOW.
Winterhill Kennel Reviews - West Brookfield, MA 01585 | Page 1

That's just a sample of what is scattered across the internet. I so know better, too. 
:doh:

Still waiting to hear back from the club. 

I've come to the conclusion that it will likely be up to a year before we can find an appropriate breeder. I should have begun looking months ago when we decided on a Golden but, I somewhat assumed it would not be this difficult to find a pup with clearances.

As to rescues:

A few years back, I submitted an app to a Shepherd rescue, after Rye's death, but was rejected because I have epilepsy and my health is seen as a negative factor that leads to instability. My financial situation is very secure, I work from home, and I have/had a fenced yard. I also had a CGC titled dog under my belt and she worked as a therapy dog. 

I think I'd likely be rejected again, due to this and my six year old son. Possibly the bunny and the parrots, too. 

Anyway, the search continues. :wavey:


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Stay_Golden said:


> UGh.  I just lost my last reply.
> 
> ANYWHOOZIT.
> 
> ...


Where are you looking again? I have looked into Sunfire goldens? They are more field style and have puppies a little more often.


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## Stay_Golden (Jun 10, 2014)

Eowyn said:


> Where are you looking again? I have looked into Sunfire goldens? They are more field style and have puppies a little more often.


They're in CT, and I just sent an email. 

They look to be completely reputable and it seems a LOT of their dogs are here, at least when I ran a forum search their name popped up quite often. About how much do they run? I've come across 2K dogs with no clearances or titles and shady promises of clearances so I don't know what to expect?

I also looked at Colonial Goldens
Colonial Goldens

and

Indian Trail
Indian Trail Golden Retriever Puppy Connecticut Home

and
Golden Ridge but,
Goldenridge Kennels | New England Breeder of Fine Quality Golden Retrievers

Her dogs seem to be bred for color only? (Golden Ridge) I am also wary of clearance on them after running a forum search.

ANY and ALL New England breeders that do full clearance are desperately wanted.  :crossfing


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## Stay_Golden (Jun 10, 2014)

I'm also thinking of contacting Thornlea and seeing if I can put down a deposit on her next litter....?

Also-- "competition home" -- does that mean I have to be currently competing? Can I just plan to compete?


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Planning on competing should be fine (as long as you are actually serious about it). We do have several sunfire goldens on the forum. In fact we had a sunfire puppy thread last year http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...28338-theyre-here-titan-x-towhee-puppies.html
I don't know what they ask for the puppies, but I don't think it would be over 2,000.


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

Duplicate post


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## Stay_Golden (Jun 10, 2014)

I'll update when I hear back from Sunfire and /or ThorneLea. If I can put a deposit on a ThorneLea, I will wait for one of hers, I think. The Sunfire dogs are gorgeous, too. We'll see. Might not hear back from either.


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## Cookie's Mom (Oct 14, 2013)

I got my Oatmeal from Brookshire Goldens in Northborough, MA. She has been great so far-in temperament, trainability, and looks! Not sure if the breeder will have any more litters this year though. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

Just wanted to say my current pup (9 months old today) is from Sunfire. She's very intelligent, energetic and athletic, pretty high energy but not over the top. She loves people and is often described as very happy. I get lots of compliments on how good looking she is. My training experience is somewhat comparable to yours, a BN, CGC, and Delta therapy certification on my prior Golden. I'm hoping to do competition obedience and therapy work with her. I'm thinking it may take awhile for her to settle enough for therapy work but we were at a dog show last week and she did really well with the meet and greets, even with a guy in a motorized wheelchair who chased us down to see if he could pet her. We're doing introductory agility for fun and she loves it. The trainer thinks she'll be very good at agility should we continue with that.


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

Best of luck wherever you get your puppy, Goldens are just wonderful!


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

There's Brookshire (MA), Pennylane (NJ), Chestnut Goldens (NY), Ruffwater (NJ).


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## Stay_Golden (Jun 10, 2014)

Thanks for the help everyone. I've sent out a TON of emails and even applied on a retriever mix at a rescue (even though I said I wouldn't.) She just had a good bio-- good with kids, other dogs and cats, etc. I don't have cats but- hey. Cats are alright. Sorta. LOL

We'll see what shakes out.

I'll update when something does.

Sunfire dogs make me drool!! GORGEOUS!!!!!


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Stay_Golden said:


> I found a pup I thought was a "farm dog" but then found out that the individual was, essentially, functioning as a mill and breeding ALL TYPES of dogs. It looks to me like she fakes a lot of the positive reviews because they are INSANELY glowing as opposed to the negative ones which are HOLY HORRORSHOW.
> Winterhill Kennel Reviews - West Brookfield, MA 01585 | Page 1
> 
> That's just a sample of what is scattered across the internet. I so know better, too.
> ...


About twenty years ago my husband and I answered an ad for Great Pyrenees puppies in West Brookfield. Those days we just knew not to buy from a pet shop and thought buying from the classifieds was the best thing to do - until we went to this place. We made an appt, but showed up about an hour early ( must have been the same place). It appeared to be a home, but we saw all these people leaving with different breeds of dogs. We went on knocked on the door, and they were very upset we did not come at our assigned time. They went to get the puppies, but told us they needed to bathe them first, so we had to wait. The brought up the pups, ended up being they were from Illinois. We left empty handed, and looked in the backyard to see dozens of dog cages. Very sad.

Wow, I can't believe you were denied because of your illness.

You are actually very fortunate to live in Mass, there are many good breeders. My Brady is from Twin Beau D in Scituate. He is seven, and he has been a great dog. My vet out here in Kansas City told me he was one of the top five dogs she has ever met, looks and temperament wise. She always says she would love to borrow him for the day. Many of the lines in Mass have Twin Beau D foundation. I am not sure if they still show or not. She has been bringing back some of her older sires through frozen sperm.


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## Jamm (Mar 28, 2010)

Im so sorry you're not having such great luck, but please don't give up! The perfect, healthy puppy will be well worth all your struggle. Have you thought of expanding your search to further states/north of the border? Im not to familiar with the US states and locations but you could also look at NYC/NJ/Maryland?(whatever else is neighbouring states) 

Thinking of you!


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Stay_Golden said:


> ...
> Sunfire dogs make me drool!! GORGEOUS!!!!!


Hey, just checking on how your search is going. I am glad you are making health clearances a priority in your search. It stacks the odds in your favor of a dog without those inherited health issues. I see that you love the Sunfire dogs (me too ) and I just wanted to give you my 2 cents. 

You and your husband are an ideal household for a good breeder for many reasons - you understand how important training is, working from home is huge, have previous experience with larger dogs and know what daily exercise really means etc. I promise if you are patient you are going to find your ideal puppy. I think you are just beginning to discover how many possibilities are out there for you. Please take your time and make sure you shop around, don't rush into a puppy because you miss having a dog in your home so much and then realize in 6 months that you wish you'd held out for a Sunfire puppy (or something else etc.). Does that make sense? It is so much fun to research breeders and their dogs and talk to people and learn. I look forward to hearing how you proceed


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## Stay_Golden (Jun 10, 2014)

I've decided to wait for a Sunfire or another dog of that caliber or so. I figure it'll be a year or so. Maybe less. 

In the meantime I plan on attending a lot of shows and trials and getting a real good idea by visiting here often, doing a ton of research on various lines and possibly considering a move to a place with a larger yard so I can purchase & set up a spot for my own in-house obstacles and a pool. 

I did about six months of research+ before my second shepherd and I could have done even more, in retrospect. 

I also think some volunteer work with various rescues woul help scratch the itch I have right now and sharpen my skills with dealing with problematic behavioral issues that can crop up from time to time. 

Hub and I have also decided we'd like to set up a separate vet fund for emergencies, even though our credit line is healthy and have a fair amount of savings in case we decide we want a more expensive dog than the 2K or so we had decided on. 

Maybe this sounds nutty, and it might be overkill but, I'm a bit of an overly paranoid and overly prepared person in general. I'd rather be in a position to have the ability to choose from a multitude of breedes all over the US, including airfare to see different breeders, check them out with you guys, extensively research the dog's lines etc. 

I'm still going to be around, reading threads and asking a lot of questions. I hope I don't drive you all too batty in the process!


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## Goldendancer (Oct 22, 2008)

Check out Golden Retriever Rescue, your city, your state and other areas as well. Due to the gov caused depression, a number of golden showers and or breeders had their houses stolen when they lost their jobs, businesses closed, etc, and Golden rescues in many states have ended up with Golden show dogs and or Golden breeding dogs due to being unable to find rental housing that allowed big dogs due to the severe shortage in housing. I have been to numerous Golden Rescue events in different states and see they have some amazing Goldens that people gave up due to horrific hard times. Some have adopted show Goldens, etc right from rescue. 

You can learn a lot about Goldens by going to the local Golden Retriever Rescue events and Golden Retriever Meet N Greets where you can meet many available Goldens from pups to adults to wonderful seniors. They range from Golden show dogs, to Golden pet dogs, to Golden rescued dogs and many are given up due to property managers and real estate agents refusing to rent to pet owners. 

You will learn a lot about Goldens at a Golden Rescue event, they specialize in Goldens, many use to breed Goldens, and they have a wealth of info about the Golden Retriever breed.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Stay_Golden said:


> I've decided to wait for a Sunfire or another dog of that caliber or so. I figure it'll be a year or so. Maybe less.
> 
> In the meantime I plan on attending a lot of shows and trials and getting a real good idea by visiting here often, doing a ton of research on various lines and possibly considering a move to a place with a larger yard so I can purchase & set up a spot for my own in-house obstacles and a pool.
> 
> ...


I can't tell you how happy I am for you. Not only do you have a level head on your shoulders for making a life decision, but you are mature enough to focus on the benefits of delayed gratification. Very proud of you.

I am so pleased to hear that you've set the bar high and are not prepared to compromise because you can't wait. You're so smart to keep researching and looking around. Try to meet people and their dogs at different performance events. Especially the Sunfire dogs. (But who knows you may even discover others you admire just as much) Pay attention to the threads on this forum and look up the pedigrees of some of your favorites. You will also find that plenty of good breeders will base their kennels on certain lines and you may find a breeder you like who blends different lines in an attempt to get the best traits from different places. I have younger children and a husband who travels and am still very much a novice trainer - a really high-powered dog would not have been a good fit for me. After learning a lot through previous experience, my girl is more of a performance/conformation blend and she is super smart, more focused and willing to please me than my own kids and will retrieve like her tail is on fire and then come home and snuggle on the couch with me. I was on the wait list for her litter for two years. (The first breeding didn't take) and let me tell you that she is worth every second of the wait).

Have you been on the websites for Infodog and entry express and AKC etc. to find different events that are an easy drive for you or that you could build a long weekend around? The Golden Retriever National is in Asheville, NC this year and that could be a great trip (if you've never been to Western North Carolina, it is wonderful) to watch all the different events and meet a few people and their dogs from this forum in person. There should be many options in the Northeast for you to choose from as well. If you've never seen a hunt test or field trial in person, you would be amazed at how beautifully trained and athletic those higher level dogs are. It is fun to have a project, I'm glad you're putting so much time into your next dog, you will get out of it what you are putting into it, I promise


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Here is a terrific example of what I'm talking about. 

We have a member on this forum who is FourLakes Golden Retrievers
Four Lakes Goldens - Champion Line Golden Retrievers | Companion and Hunting Dogs | Golden Retriever Breeder | Madison, WI

Jane has her foundation girl named Abby (here is her pedigree) Pedigree: Cheerio Four Lakes Abby Gale CGC

who came from Cheerio Goldens and they have a strong foundation in Sunfire Goldens. I am not knowledgeable enough about genetics and pedigrees to say a lot about it, but if you were interested in Sunfire it would be worth talking to Jane and asking questions or emailing Wendy the owner of Cheerio and talking to her about why they like Sunfire dogs and how they make breeding choices for their dogs and what their goals are. Both of these ladies are super nice and I feel certain would respond to questions, although Jane has a ton of puppies right now http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/golden-retrievers-main-discussion/293442-how-many-puppies.html  I know they're both pretty busy.

Anyway, I just wanted to show you what I was talking about, if you like certain dogs that you can sometimes find other breeders who have similar goals and are using those lines in their kennels. Have fun researching


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## Julie Timmons (Dec 16, 2016)

Stay_Golden said:


> This guy:
> NewEnglandGoldens.com
> sent me 2 emails within a few hrs. but, when questioned about titles and clearances went radio silent. :doh:
> 
> ...


I know this thread is old but I just wanted to point out my [bad] experience with Winterhill Farm and Kennel in the hopes it saves someone else from making the mistake I almost did.

This post saved me from purchasing one of her pups (and also steered me away from NewEnglandGoldens). I am new to this and due to my inexperience, thought the WFK owner Leah seemed genuine. I had plans to go look at one of her available 11 wk old puppies. I had a week to wait and in the meantime started googling her and I ended up here. I have a love/hate relationship with the internet. Sometimes bad reviews are unjustified, in my opinion. So I contacted Leah again and asked her about the issues I had seen online. Asked her about the status of the sire/dam, if they were onsite, AKC registration, etc. Also asked if there was a reason she still had 11 wk old pups as that seemed unusual in my area. They are usually sold at 8 wks and from wait lists.

She refused to answer all of my questions except one and then told me that she was no longer considering me as a potential buyer. She wouldn't sell me a puppy if I had doubts about her right from the start. The question she answered was to tell me she does not keep wait lists and does not begin to sell her puppies at 8 weeks. She said she is able to pick out the people who are a good match for her babies. [I guess I wasn't a good match bc I knew too much?]

I replied that her refusal to answer my questions indirectly answered my questions. She came back with something like "If that makes you feel better..." and then she blocked me so I couldn't leave a bad review or comment on her Facebook page. She didn't block my fiancé though so I was able to still leave her a one star review. As the original poster stated, she has GLOWING Facebook reviews. Now I know why. At the first hint of trouble, she blocks you. 

Long story short, I am THRILLED it ended up the way it did as it pushed me to be more skeptical and further research how to find a a good breeder, this forum has been a huge help!! I am now waiting on a pup from Twin-Beau-D, they are expected on 12/27 with a Feb 18 "gotcha day." 

I am so excited and SO THANKFUL for all the people who post here. You all provide a great service to others who need help. 
Merry Christmas


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