# Help! My Puppy is biting my 3 kids!



## mers123

I have a beautiful 10 week old puppy, Penny. Penny is recovering from an immune disease called "Puppy Strangles", which she got shortly after we got her home from the breeder. So unfortunately she is still on prednisone. Despite that she is still a wonderful puppy in both demeanor and sweetness. However her biting is getting out of control. She is already about 18 pounds, and she is biting my 6 year old son worst of all. The poor kid has horrible bite marks on his inner thighs, his arms, and his backs of his legs. She also goes after my 3 year old and my 11 month old but not as often, and she doesn't bite them as hard...probably because my 6 year old reacts more when she does bite.

We have tried a thin vinyl cord, and everytime she bites, I tug on it and say "drop it!", and reward her once she does, and replace it with a toy. I constantly am shoving bones and toys in her mouth to distract her. I have my son "freeze like a statue" when she starts to bite him so that she will lose interest but so far nothing seems to work. I have even tried to hold her mouth shut and shout "No bite!", and put my thub and finger in her lower mouth as I've read on here to do, but it only seems to rile her up more. She's getting so big everyday and I'm starting to fear for my little ones. Her razor sharp teeth are very strong! My kids are having to hide on the couch (which won't work much longer once she's able to jump up there) and I'm having to constantly put my 11 month old in her highchair or hold her just to keep her safe.

Does anyone have any suggestions other than what I've tried? 
I'm desperate here and before i go out and spend $700 on a private dog trainer i'm hoping I can get some answers here first.

Thanks!


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## OutWest

Hi--I don't have a lot of answers for you but wanted to reassure you that tomorrow youll get lots of responses. It sounds like normal puppy biting but obviously for everyone's sake and safety it has to end soon. 

My guess is that the reaction she's getting when she bites is only exciting her more and causing her to bite more. My understanding is when puppies are upset with a littermate who 's playing too rough, they turn their backs and/or leave. you might ask your kids to not get too excited, say "ouch" loudly and then calmly walk away. it doesn't work with all puppies but has worked with my last two. 

Also, watch the puppy carefully for a while. You will lean to see when she's getting excited and ready to start playing rough. If you can distract her before she starts, it's easier then correcting after the fact.

Good luck! This too shall pass. And you'll get more responses tomorrow.

Oh--and your pup is a doll!


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## JazzSkye

Hi,

Penny needs structured training. You don't have to spend 700 on a puppy trainer, but a puppy class is a must. What she's doing is asserting dominance over your children--she considers them as siblings and in a litter, puppies establish rank amongst themselves through dominance and submission. Young children also have high voices which sound like their own puppy siblings. 

If she's resisting your "no bites" and getting riled up more, she's trying to assert dominance over you too. She seems to have a strong character, so you've got to get her under control before she gets too big. Penny can sense your children's fear and will only grow more confident because of it, so it's up to you, the adult, to be the uncontested Alpha here.

At ten weeks, she's still small enough for you to grab her by the scruff when she bites, give a firm shake, then put her on her side. Say "NO" in a deep voice as you do this--you can even growl, it's how momma corrects-- and hold her on the floor, one hand on her neck, the other on her body. She will squirm and struggle. What's important is that you do not let her up until she totally relaxes--this is a sign of submission.

I'm not for rewarding a biting dog who lets go. My concern is that she may be associating biting people with a reward. Biting is serious, so for me it's absolutely forbidden and no treats in sight if I have to correct her, just kind but strong discipline.

Not all puppy classes are equal. I would call and explain your problem before enrolling her. Your 6 year-old, athough pretty young, can be taught how to put her through her paces but until the kids are old enought to really show Penny they're not her siblings and are to be respected, you need to protect them. 

If it's any comfort, Jazz was like Penny at 10 weeks. He bled all three of my kids and I nearly shipped his hindquarters back to the breeder. But learning about dog behavior (2 great books IMO are by the monks of New Skeet: How to be your Dog's Best Friend and The Art of Raising a Puppy) and getting structured training changed everything.

At nearly 7, he's the dog of my life and a true marshmallow. Has never even shown his teeth since puppyhood. Actually, he did: when Skye arrived as a puppy last year, to her only, and only until he got used to her. He was educating her, and it was between them.

All the best to you and Penny. You can do it.:wavey:


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## wmag

Kasey was terrible with my 3yr old! When Kasey started to bite my daughter I would tell her no bite put a toy in her mouth and take my daughter into another room where Kasey could not follow. My daughter spent alot of time hiding on the couch too! Kasey was 4 or 5 months old before my daughter could actually play with her. When they do play Kasey has a toy in her mouth and if she drops it play time is over! Now they are best friends always together! It is really funny if my 14yr old daughter wants to play with Kasey she will give her a toy but she drops it right away so she tells the 3yr to give it to her and she will hold on to it!


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## oakleysmommy

consistency and patience it is just a phase it will pass..each time one of mine kept nipping i would say "no bite" and hand her one of her toys..10 weeks old i think is the big nipping stage! I remember bringing my puppies home at 8 weeks and saying wow they are so good they dont even nip! that all changed at 10 weeks. My dogs are now 5 months, 9 months and 1.5 years and every once a while they get too excited and nip nip nip we just turn away or say no bite and they calm down. Hang in there!! also i did not do puppy classes.


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## mommyof5

Thank you for this useful post. We are bring home our golden girl in 2.5 weeks and I was wondering what to do about this. THank you.


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## momtoMax

I so disagree with the asserting dominanace part of the one post I have to comment.

What she IS doing is being a normal 10 week old puppy, playing with the humans the same way she'd play with her litter mates. Thinking it's a dominance thing can really screw up in how you handle a situation. Don't misunderstand her behavior. I suggest you get some books about golden retrievers and doggy communication. You are going to have to live with the biting thing while you try to teach her not to do it. Good luck with that - it was a very long road for us. Max did outgrow that stage like they all do. 

The cord is a very horrible way to deal with something the pup won't understand. Oh, so you don't want me to play with you? is the only possible message she will get that you are going for - more likely to not understand and more likely to become uncomfortable around leashes and feel unsafe when she's on one and you're holding the other end. I'd stop that like, yesterday. Shoving - again - not the best way - trading, absolutely. The statue thing I've heard of working sometimes as the yelping thing but it takes a long time for either to work. Just takes a lot of patience and determination. Whatever you do, don't punish her for this typical behavior - you most likely are not sending her the message you think you are.


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## nolefan

Welcome to the forum, it's a great resource. 

1). First thing this morning start searching for puppy class, as suggested. Try dog training clubs and if you can't find one, start calling local breed clubs for their suggestions. People want to help if you tell them what you need. 

2). Normal puppy behavior, but your kids do need to be protected. Absolutely no unsupervised contact. Baby gates and an X pen are good for management. 

3). Do you have any friends with young dogs? Puppy playdates are a great thing for rough housing, start asking neighbors, your kids' friends' parents, at church etc. it can be a huge help especially if the puppy has to be crated a bit more because you can't supervise constantly. 

4). Consider tethering the puppy to your waist so you don't have to crate while youre doing chores etc. 

5). It's going to be a huge committment of time and effort on your part, but you will get thru this phase. Hang in there! You're not the only one who has struggled with this.


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## Willow52

momtoMax said:


> I so disagree with the asserting dominanace part of the one post I have to comment.
> 
> *What she IS doing is being a normal 10 week old puppy, playing with the humans the same way she'd play with her litter mates. Thinking it's a dominance thing can really screw up in how you handle a situation. Don't misunderstand her behavior. I suggest you get some books about golden retrievers and doggy communication. You are going to have to live with the biting thing while you try to teach her not to do it. Good luck with that - it was a very long road for us. Max did outgrow that stage like they all do.
> *
> The cord is a very horrible way to deal with something the pup won't understand. Oh, so you don't want me to play with you? is the only possible message she will get that you are going for - more likely to not understand and more likely to become uncomfortable around leashes and feel unsafe when she's on one and you're holding the other end. I'd stop that like, yesterday. Shoving - again - not the best way - trading, absolutely. The statue thing I've heard of working sometimes as the yelping thing but it takes a long time for either to work. Just takes a lot of patience and determination. Whatever you do, don't punish her for this typical behavior - you most likely are not sending her the message you think you are.


You don't need a $700. trainer, this is normal behavior that puppy will outgrow. Some puppies are worse than others, my Hank wasn't a particularly "mouthy" puppy (compared to our others) but our family still had the scratches and torn clothing to prove our new puppy status!

Our granddaughter was 4 y.o. when we got Hank, we made a rule of no floor playing/wrestling with puppy. Puppies like to play rough and kids quickly learn they are no match for those puppy teeth.


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## vcm5

I do not think that this is anything but normal puppy biting. I would advise you strongly NOT to follow the previous poster's advice regarding rolling the puppy on its side, this is not a sound training procedure. Your puppy is playing and this will only scare her and will have no positive benefits.


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## vcm5

JazzSkye said:


> At ten weeks, she's still small enough for you to grab her by the scruff when she bites, give a firm shake, then put her on her side. Say "NO" in a deep voice as you do this--you can even growl, it's how momma corrects-- and hold her on the floor, one hand on her neck, the other on her body. She will squirm and struggle. What's important is that you do not let her up until she totally relaxes--this is a sign of submission.


This is what I mean. Please DO NOT do this to your dog. These dominance based training practices have been shown to be harmful. Your puppy is not trying to dominate you, she is just being a puppy!!!


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## JazzSkye

Harmful, sharmful...as with "other" subjects, it's all in how you do it. It can be kindly but firmly done. Telling your child to stand there and "freeze" until the dog tires of biting is putting the dog over the humans.

"Just being a puppy" is no excuse not to educate her, and she won't learn unless you teach her it's wrong to bite.

I would like to see some proof that this technique is harmful. I've seen it used many times--again, not in a rough way--and the puppies respond because they're being corrected the way their own mother would correct them.

Worked for us, and many others I know. And our dogs are not fearful animals.


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## mylissyk

JazzSkye said:


> Hi,
> 
> Penny needs structured training. You don't have to spend 700 on a puppy trainer, but a puppy class is a must. What she's doing is asserting dominance over your children--she considers them as siblings and in a litter, puppies establish rank amongst themselves through dominance and submission. Young children also have high voices which sound like their own puppy siblings.
> 
> If she's resisting your "no bites" and getting riled up more, she's trying to assert dominance over you too. She seems to have a strong character, so you've got to get her under control before she gets too big. Penny can sense your children's fear and will only grow more confident because of it, so it's up to you, the adult, to be the uncontested Alpha here.
> 
> At ten weeks, she's still small enough for you to grab her by the scruff when she bites, give a firm shake, then put her on her side. Say "NO" in a deep voice as you do this--you can even growl, it's how momma corrects-- and hold her on the floor, one hand on her neck, the other on her body. She will squirm and struggle. What's important is that you do not let her up until she totally relaxes--this is a sign of submission.
> 
> I'm not for rewarding a biting dog who lets go. My concern is that she may be associating biting people with a reward. Biting is serious, so for me it's absolutely forbidden and no treats in sight if I have to correct her, just kind but strong discipline.
> 
> Not all puppy classes are equal. I would call and explain your problem before enrolling her. Your 6 year-old, athough pretty young, can be taught how to put her through her paces but until the kids are old enought to really show Penny they're not her siblings and are to be respected, you need to protect them.
> 
> If it's any comfort, Jazz was like Penny at 10 weeks. He bled all three of my kids and I nearly shipped his hindquarters back to the breeder. But learning about dog behavior (2 great books IMO are by the monks of New Skeet: How to be your Dog's Best Friend and The Art of Raising a Puppy) and getting structured training changed everything.
> 
> At nearly 7, he's the dog of my life and a true marshmallow. Has never even shown his teeth since puppyhood. Actually, he did: when Skye arrived as a puppy last year, to her only, and only until he got used to her. He was educating her, and it was between them.
> 
> All the best to you and Penny. You can do it.:wavey:


Please don't do this! Please, I beg you do not use dominance theory methods on your baby puppy, it will in all likelihood backfire and make her fight you, as you have already seen when you grab her muzzle. 

I do agree with Jazz, you need to get in a puppy class with her as soon as possible. And she could use more exercise when the kids are not out running with her, maybe have her chase the ball for a while before the kids will spend time with her.




momtoMax said:


> I so disagree with the asserting dominanace part of the one post I have to comment.
> 
> What she IS doing is being a normal 10 week old puppy, playing with the humans the same way she'd play with her litter mates. Thinking it's a dominance thing can really screw up in how you handle a situation. Don't misunderstand her behavior. I suggest you get some books about golden retrievers and doggy communication. You are going to have to live with the biting thing while you try to teach her not to do it. Good luck with that - it was a very long road for us. Max did outgrow that stage like they all do.
> 
> The cord is a very horrible way to deal with something the pup won't understand. Oh, so you don't want me to play with you? is the only possible message she will get that you are going for - more likely to not understand and more likely to become uncomfortable around leashes and feel unsafe when she's on one and you're holding the other end. I'd stop that like, yesterday. Shoving - again - not the best way - trading, absolutely. The statue thing I've heard of working sometimes as the yelping thing but it takes a long time for either to work. Just takes a lot of patience and determination. Whatever you do, don't punish her for this typical behavior - you most likely are not sending her the message you think you are.


 
I agree with momtoMax. First understand this is totally normal puppy behaviour and is the way she would play with her littermates. 

Obviously teeth on skin is not acceptable and she does need to learn not to do it. Literally put a toy or chew bone in her mouth when she starts, encourage her to play with it and praise her when she does. Something attractive enough she will be redirected to it instead of your child.

As you have seen physical correction like grabbing her muzzle only makes her ramp up her efforts to bite. Please don't do that anymore. I think it's ok to keep a leash on her and redirect her away from your children when starts being a land shark, but don't punish her for it. 

Also, when she is particularly mouthy try a time out in her crate or puppy pen, give her a nice chew toy or bone, it's not meant as a punishment just as a time to calm down. 

And I would use the puppy pen or baby gates to keep her seperate from your kids more until she is a little older and starts learning not to put teeth on skin. I realize you got her to be a family pet for your kids, but for now until she can learn not to bite, you need more structure, kids play time with the puppy put up, puppy play time when kids are occupied elsewhere. And play time together must be strictly supervised, if puppy gets too mouthy, Oops, time out.

Pick the method that seems to work the best now and use it consistently to correct her, she will learn it just takes time.


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## JazzSkye

momtoMax said:


> What she IS doing is being a normal 10 week old puppy, playing with the humans the same way she'd play with her litter mates. Thinking it's a dominance thing can really screw up in how you handle a situation. Don't misunderstand her behavior. I suggest you get some books about golden retrievers and doggy communication. You are going to have to live with the biting thing while you try to teach her not to do it. Good luck with that - it was a very long road for us. Max did outgrow that stage like they all do.


I totally disagree with this. They don't all outgrow it, and it most cetainly IS a "dominance thing"...she's trying to pull rank like she'd try to do with her littermates. This is totally normal; dominance and submission are an integral part of the learning experience in the litter. It's not "mean" on her part.

But "you're going to have to live with the biting thing" until the dog supposedly outgrows it is a dangerous idea to pass on to someone. I've seen owners of nearly-grown goldens finally bring them to obedience training because they're no longer controllable, after believing they'd naturally grow out of their behavoiral patterns, which by then had become firmly engrained.

We have a responsibility to teach our golden companions that humans are not to be bitten, and are to be obeyed. This can be done without physically or psychologically harming the dog---or spending your entire day entertaining him so he won't think to bite. 

I've worked in training dogs for quite a few years now, and I stand by my recommendation. But to each his own: that's the beauty of free choice.

Good luck with Penny. :wave:


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## mers123

I appreciate all of the wonderful replies everyone!! As far as the pupply classes go, from what my vet has told me she is far too young to do a class because she is not fully vaccinated, and won't be until she is 16 weeks...that's 6 LONG weeks away. That is why I have debated hiring a costly private in-home trainer...to get this under control. And because of her immune disease she has she is even more susceptible to any diseases that are out there right now . She is mostly very calm...she lays around and sleeps A LOT of the day. But there are about 3 times a day when she gets totally wild - morning, afternoon and evening. So I don't feel it fair to keep her confined all day just for those 3 short bursts. 
Does anyone know if there are classes out there that are safe for younger puppies that are not fully vaccinated yet? Any advice on that one? I will look into the books..thanks for that advice. She's been wonderful with the baby....when the baby crawls up to her and tugs on her fur she just lays there..doesn't even do anything. It's really just when she's in her "hyper" moods.


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## momof2boys and one dog

been there! I have two kids too, including a three year old. I THOUGHT we were totally prepared for a puppy but we had NO idea how much work and patience are truly required. There was a period when we all were covered in teeth marks and scratches...I do believe they are affectionatley called land sharks for a reason, lol. He is 7 months now and so much better. He still gets out of control (not in a mean way, but just really hyped up sometimes while playing) and starts nipping and when that happens we immediatley stop all contact with him, and walk away. I believe what you are going through is total normal puppy behavior. Its something you WILL get through with teaching and patience. Puppies are truly like toddlers! Potty accidents and little self control. They get caught up in the moment, you have to teach them the "proper" way to behave. It DOES get better, I swear to you. I had many secret moments of "what did we get ourselves into"? But you will get through these times. Our Fred and my two sons are IN LOVE, they are learning how to play together more and more every day. Hang in there!!


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## nolster

*Tired puppy = good puppy*

I am not going to venture into the dominance debate, but I will tell you what worked with Riley for us. We tired him out at every chance and we did not wrestle in the house. 2-3 times a day for the first few months we would play outside in the yard. The playing would range from chase around the back yard to working on his recall and fetching skills. These play sessions do not have to be long sense the puppy will want to sleep most of the time anyway. When we would go back inside he was so tired most of the time that he would sleep until the next session. 
I think that the puppy training class is a really good idea especially if this is your first puppy. (getting an adult dog is a whole different ball game) I would not spend outrageous money on the first class. We waited till after his parvo shots and then signed up at the local petsmart. Although the instructor was not the greatest the homework gave us the structure to work on his behaviour throughout the week. The class also introduced us to a few other responsible owners in our neighbourhood to set play dates with.

These are just what worked for us when Riley was a puppy. After 2 1/2 years he is always best behaved after a long walk, swimming, or a trip to the dog park!


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## Thegoldenclaa

We are in the thick of the same thing right now. Ella is 9 weeks. I watch a one year old two days a week. On those days the x-pen is invaluable. I have two kids almost 6 and 3 1/2.my kids have learned to be trees really well when Ella tries to bite them and how to trade toys pretty well with her. When Ella gets out of control we put her in the x-pen or remove the kids from the room until she settles down. Hopefully she will learn soon that bitie behavior equals no more playing. We also have a bully stick that she loves to chew hard at those times. She starts puppy kindergarten next week. It only a class for puppy's under 16 weeks old and it's all off leash. I would look for a puppy only class and get a bully stick if you don't have one yet. Hopefully this stage passes soon :crossfing until then practice deep breaths.


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## kwhit

This book is a valuable resource for anyone with a puppy. It addresses puppy biting on pg. 79, but I'd really recommend reading the whole thing:

http://www.dogstardaily.com/files/AFTER You Get Your Puppy.pdf


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## mers123

Do you all think a puppy class would address the biting? I've always been told the classes like the ones offered at Petsmart are more just for socialization and basic commands.


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## solinvictus

"I would like to see some proof that this technique is harmful. I've seen it used many times--again, not in a rough way--and the puppies respond because they're being corrected the way their own mother would correct them."

Todays behavior science has come a long way from aversive training such as alpha rolls and taking the pup by it's scruff. Dominance theory comes from watching wolves that were not able to act appropriately as they were no longer in their own pack and in the wild. What those wolves did in captivity wasn't the same as they do in the wild. 
Later studies have totally debunked these theories. 

Recopied from one of my past posts. A few things don't exactly apply as these things were not suggested but they are aversive and fall into the same category.

A few articles for your consideration.

What are the Implications of Using Training Techniques Which Induce Fear or Pain in Dogs? 
'Decrease the dog’s ability to learn" (I think this is a very key point in this article)


What's wrong with using ‘dominance&rs to explain the behaviour of dogs? 


Traditional Dog Training Methods and Behavior Problems Discusses the Kohler method.

there was a recent survey and study that suggests that aversive training affects the owner dog relationship in a very negative way. I will look for it and put it in the post when I find it.

Here is the link to an article on the subject.

If You're Aggressive, Your Dog Will Be, Too, Says Veterinary Study at University of Pennsylvania | Penn News 

"training technique they employed. Of the 140 surveys completed, the most frequently listed recommendation sources were “self” and “trainers.” Several confrontational methods such as “hit or kick dog for undesirable behavior” (43 percent),
“growl at dog” (41 percent),
“physically force the release of an item from a dog's mouth” (39 percent),
“alpha roll”physically -- rolling the dog onto its back and holding it (31 percent),
“stare at or stare down” (30 percent),
“dominance down” —- physically forcing the dog down onto its side (29 percent)
and “grab dog by jowls and shake” (26 percent)
elicited an aggressive response from at least 25 percent of the dogs on which they were attempted. In addition, dogs brought to the hospital for aggressive behavior towards familiar people were more likely to respond aggressively to some confrontational techniques than dogs brought in for other behavioral reasons."

This is all generalized below.
The problem with training mostly with aversives (positive punishments) is when the punishment you are using no longer works (gets the desired result) the owner has to up the anti and use something harsher.
If shaking the noisy can no longer works what will be your next step in positive punishment?
If spraying the water bottle no longer works what will be your next step in positive punishment?
If popping the leash no longer works what will be your next step in positive punishment?
If grabbing the collar no longer works (dog won't get close enough) what will be your next step in positive punishment?
How far in aversives (positive punishment) are you willing to go?
The dog loses trust and that breaks our bond with our loving pet. 
Each of us has to look at this and decide is this the type of relationship we want with the dog we love.

It is a lot easier to use aversives (positive punishment) as these methods are usually actions. Grabbing the collar, popping the collar, shaking the can, yelling at the dog. 
Negative punishment is a lot harder and we really have to think to apply this to our dogs be consistent and also be patient. These are things that are no action. Not giving the reward. (praise, treat, toy, game, attention) It is hard to just not do anything.


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## solinvictus

"Do you all think a puppy class would address the biting? I've always been told the classes like the ones offered at Petsmart are more just for socialization and basic commands."

Good puppy classes do address some basic commands. If the pup knows those basic commands (cues) the owner can ask for those behaviors from the pup and reward those giving the pup positive actions to do in place of the biting. The owner also has a trainer they trust that they can then get good quality advice in person.


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## Wimbles

I can totally empathise with what you're going through. Hector will be 2 at the end of this month and when we brought him home at 8 weeks my kids were 10, 8 & 6 so a little older than yours. We went through the summer holidays of constant nipping and biting and there were times when I wondered what a little monster we'd brought to join our family. However...it does get better. We taught the kids the tree trick and most of the time it worked but not always. We would also let out a short, sharp high pitched 'OW' as his litter mates would've done. After having teeth holes put in pairs of jeans and joggers and with red hands we found a cheap option which together with the methods mentioned above really worked for us. Vicks Vapour Rub, the stuff you rub on your chest when you've got a cold. I would rub a little on our hands and round our ankles. Hector absolutely disliked the smell so much the nipping very quickly stopped. As a side note, I also rubbed it onto the legs of the dining room chairs and he decided he didn't want to chew those any more either:yuck:!

Hector has never been crate trained (or been to a training class) but we would also reinforce to him that we didn't like this and other unacceptable behaviour by putting him into timeout, only for a few minutes, in the sun room. It has big glass doors and is next to the family room so he could see us and us him. He very quickly realised that if he wanted to stay in the company of the 'pack', certain behaviour was not going to be tolerated. He too had certain times of the day when he seemed to go totally mad and would get full on zoomies. Usually around 6pm and 1am:doh:

Penny is just behaving like most pups of her age. I hope it gets better for you soon. I'm sure when she loses her baby teeth the nipping will reduce too. Hang on in there. It really is worth all the hard work


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## solinvictus

"As far as the pupply classes go, from what my vet has told me she is far too young to do a class because she is not fully vaccinated, and won't be until she is 16 weeks...that's 6 LONG weeks away."

http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/puppy%20socialization.pdf 

Veterinarians specializing in behavior recommend that owners take advantage of every safe opportunity to expose young puppies to the great variety of stimuli that they will experience in their lives. Enrolling in puppy classes prior to three months of age can be an excellent means of improving training, strengthening the human-animal bond, and socializing puppies in an environment where risk of illness can be minimized.

Behavior society supports early puppy socialization - October 1, 2008 

The guidelines state puppies can start socialization classes as early as 7 to 8 weeks of age. In general, they should receive a minimum of one set of vaccines at least seven days prior to the first class as well as a first deworming.
Additionally, puppies should show no signs of illness during the classes and should be kept up-to-date on vaccines throughout the class.
While veterinarians are appropriately concerned about infectious disease in young puppies, the fact is that behavioral issues—not infectious diseases—are the number one cause of death for dogs under 3 years of age, according to the AVSAB. Veterinarians contribute to these behavioral issues when recommending pets be kept away from possible germs until their vaccine series is complete, the AVSAB stated
American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior - AVSAB - Position Statements


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## Thegoldenclaa

mers123 said:


> Do you all think a puppy class would address the biting? I've always been told the classes like the ones offered at Petsmart are more just for socialization and basic commands.


I went to our orientation training last night and she said that the two big goals for the class are socialization and bite inhibition. Those two things really have a time limit on them and it's hard to do later in life. We will do basic commands like sit and down but primarily getting Ella used to being around all different kids of people and dogs. And the puppies will teach each other how to not bite so hard.


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## JazzSkye

Hi again,

We start our dogs in classes as soon as 10 weeks, after primo vaccination over here. I'm surprised that you need to wait until 16 weeks, but there's more than one way of doing things.

As for the "dominance" techniques of training, thanks for the articles, I'll check them out. But one thing I'd like to make clear: I never said to "induce fear or pain in a dog", or to use negative reinforcement. I'm not for having my dogs obey me because they fear me or what I might do to them, but because they love me, respect my position and want to please me. Rewarding and praise are very important...you never call your pup to you to reprimand him for example, as he must associate coming to you with positive experiences. Training should be fun for both of you.

But biting (not to be confused with nipping or mouthing) is different. A puppy who is growling, snarling, and/or biting yong children can be grabbed by the collar or scruff and scolded, then put on his side so he understands this is unacceptable behavior. I wouldn't do it on an adult dog (good way to lose your fingers or part of your face), but puppies know their "youngster" status and will give in and modify their behavior far more easily than adults or adolescent dogs.

For the rest, I completely agree with exercising and socializing the pup as much as possible, and that bite inhibition is best learned among a group of the pup's peers than on your children.

The last thing I need is to be seen as a whip-cracking dog abuser . I believe in kindness, bonding, and positive reinforcement, but also in unequivocal firmness when needed.


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## toliva

I have 3 kids, ages 7, 6, and 3. I will share with you what worked for us. When our pup was about that age, if he got one of the kids' body parts in his mouth, I squirted a little bitter apple directly into his mouth. Immediately the biting would stop. It was a very small amount, and wasn't done as a punishment but as a way to associate the bad taste with biting. He would get a treat or toy or both when he stopped. When he would nip at me, I would gently pull him the opposite direction by the scruff and say, "ah ah ah" or "aught" - our stop word - in a nice voice, and offer a toy when he released my hand (this was all done gently, mind you, no shaking or growling at him). After awhile all I had to do was say the stop command and he would stop, and then by 4 months he knew "leave it" so I could use that command, and I started teaching him to give kisses instead. 

Now he is 5 1/2 months and he very rarely nips, and when he does it is a gentle bite. I can put my hand in his mouth and he won't bite down. If he gets excited he might nip, and now I just say "leave it, give kisses!" and he will stop nipping and lick my hand. He's even to the point now where little kids can pet him around his muzzle and he doesn't open his mouth, or if he does, it is to lick them. Also I noted that his bite became noticably softer at exactly the time all his adult teeth were in.

He still *really* likes to greet new people by showing a toy, and if I don't have a toy he will grab their sleeve (he's gentle) and show them the sleeve. It's funny, but I am working on that now and he is learning.

Good luck, have patience, be gentle and be consistent


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## mers123

I don't know of any puppy socialization classes for pups as young as 8 weeks where I live...in AZ. Even Petsmart requires the Puppy to be 10 weeks - but I don't trust all the dogs that have walked in and around the store there. I would love to socialize her before 16 weeks but i just don't know where to do so where i live. I will try the bitter apple spray in her mouth..I like that idea!! Thanks Trista!


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## nolefan

I didn't realize that she was only 10 weeks old (even though it was in your first sentene ). If she truly has a compromised immune system and your vet has said she absolutely cannot go anywhere until she is completely vaccinated, then I would tweak my budget and get someone (again a recommendation from a local club would be good, someone who uses positive training methods) to come to your house to help you. I'm assuming this is your first golden and even if you have a lot of dog experience, a golden puppy can beat you down. They just tend to mouth more than other breeds.

I am someones who believe that training is so critical for my golden's future health and happiness that I am willing to risk taking a puppy who has had a couple rounds of shots to training class at my training club because they check up on vaccinations and clean up with sanitizer etc. My vet supports this. I know others may disagree and in your case if your vet says it is way too dangerous because of what she's been through healthwise, then you should certainly follow dr's orders.

If you are feeling overwhelmed with puppy nipping, and you feel what you've been trying isn't getting proper results, then I would consider it an investment and get someone to come to you for a bit of help until she's old enough. There are a lot of things I would give up in my monthly budget to make sure this gets done, I feel it is that important.

A good trainer will give you suggestions on the nipping, but honestly it's going to be a lot of management on your part. Sitting on the floor and playing with the dog and re-directing her is what I have always done. She simply cannot be left with the kids unless you are giving hands on supervision.


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## nolefan

Trista's idea of teaching her to "kiss" is an excellent one, you just smear a tiny bit of peanut butter in your palm or back of hand and when she starts licking you give the command you want to use "kiss" or "give kisses".... do this daily and you'll be surprised how quickly she'll learn and you'll have a 'redirect' command.


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## toliva

The other thing I didn't mention but maybe should have, was the level of "environmental control" we used in those early weeks to avoid the nipping as much as possible. Puppy was confined to the kitchen only. We have an "open concept" house, so we accomplished this by forming makeshift walls with opened x-pens.

We established rules for the kids to follow to help keep the excitement & nipping to a minimum:

1. No kids' toys in the kitchen
2. No shoes with laces
3. No skirts or dresses (I have 3 girls)
4. No crawling on the floor
5. When you play with the puppy, you do so seated on the floor with your back against the wall
6. Do not play with puppy without asking permission
7. No running in the kitchen
8. No rough games
9. Keep hands, feet, and hair away from puppy's mouth as much as possible
10. Do not sit down to play with puppy without a puppy toy in hand
11. Do not enter the kitchen without a puppy toy ready to give

The kids' went to most of our puppy classes (people even brought babies to puppy class). AS SOON as puppy started learning commands, the kids started using them with him as well, with me nearby so I can be sure the commands are being enforced. The kids take turns feeding the dog, and he could only eat when he was calm. Once he learned stay, he had to sit and stay before eating. We still do this now.

Some of our rules have relaxed, but not many. The girls can wear skirts, and don't have to sit on the floor to play, etc. But we are still pretty strict about maintaining the level of excitement in the house.


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## nolefan

toliva said:


> The other thing I didn't mention but maybe should have, was the level of "environmental control" we used in those early weeks to avoid the nipping as much as possible. Puppy was confined to the kitchen only. We have an "open concept" house, so we accomplished this by forming makeshift walls with opened x-pens.
> 
> We established rules for the kids to follow to help keep the excitement & nipping to a minimum:
> 
> 1. No kids' toys in the kitchen
> 2. No shoes with laces
> 3. No skirts or dresses (I have 3 girls)
> 4. No crawling on the floor
> 5. When you play with the puppy, you do so seated on the floor with your back against the wall
> 6. Do not play with puppy without asking permission
> 7. No running in the kitchen
> 8. No rough games
> 9. Keep hands, feet, and hair away from puppy's mouth as much as possible
> 10. Do not sit down to play with puppy without a puppy toy in hand
> 11. Do not enter the kitchen without a puppy toy ready to give
> 
> The kids' went to most of our puppy classes (people even brought babies to puppy class). AS SOON as puppy started learning commands, the kids started using them with him as well, with me nearby so I can be sure the commands are being enforced. The kids take turns feeding the dog, and he could only eat when he was calm. Once he learned stay, he had to sit and stay before eating. We still do this now.
> 
> Some of our rules have relaxed, but not many. The girls can wear skirts, and don't have to sit on the floor to play, etc. But we are still pretty strict about maintaining the level of excitement in the house.


This really could be a sticky for smart puppy management with little kids, it's very well done. I'll be bookmarking it for future 'landshark' threads!


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## Wyatt's mommy

We found that lots of re-direction and time outs (x-penned away from family) worked for Wyatt. And yes I also was a meanie and gently rolled him on his side until he settled more than once. This did not cause him to be fearful of me in any shape or form Nor did it harm him or deter him from learning.


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## mers123

I tried the peanut butter - well almond butter since my daughter is allergic to peanuts  - and that seemed to work for the moment. But we'll see how long it takes to really "stick" - pun intended. As far as the rules mentioned above they're not too doable with my crew - I can't tell my 11 month old not to crawl..it's her only method to get around. Our kitchen is not separated from the living room like some houses - it's a great room floor plan so they kind of mesh into one...doesn't really work with the rule listed above either..but I appreciate the input. I will get some bitter apple spray for sure. I'm trying to decide between waiting for a basic puppy class or a more private person coming out to the house.


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## solinvictus

" I can't tell my 11 month old not to crawl..it's her only method to get around. Our kitchen is not separated from the living room like some houses - it's a great room floor plan so they kind of mesh into one.."

X-pens are puppy play pens. When your 11 month old is out and about crawling on the floor put the pup in the x-pen. Getting a puppy to like the x-pen is pretty much the same as the pup learning to like a crate. Lots of fun games and rewards for pup being in the pen. As the pup gets bigger sometimes they figure out they can move the x-pen so blocking it in with furniture can help. 

It is like anything else when you have a baby your world changes and you have to make adjustments, when a young puppy comes into the home especially with young children more adjustments just have to be made to keep everyone safe. Each of us just has to figure out which adjustments work best with our family situation.

One thing new puppy owners should think about is that the puppy is always learning even when we aren't actively teaching them and they can learn tons of bad habits during that time. It is easier to use some management (they aren't learning bad habits) vs trying to fix bad habits later on.


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## solinvictus

As for the "dominance" techniques of training, thanks for the articles, I'll check them out. But one thing I'd like to make clear: I never said to "induce fear or pain in a dog", or to use negative reinforcement. I'm not for having my dogs obey me because they fear me or what I might do to them, but because they love me, respect my position and want to please me. Rewarding and praise are very important...you never call your pup to you to reprimand him for example, as he must associate coming to you with positive experiences. Training should be fun for both of you.

But biting (not to be confused with nipping or mouthing) is different. A puppy who is growling, snarling, and/or biting yong children can be grabbed by the collar or scruff and scolded, then put on his side so he understands this is unacceptable behavior. I wouldn't do it on an adult dog (good way to lose your fingers or part of your face), but puppies know their "youngster" status and will give in and modify their behavior far more easily than adults or adolescent dogs.
________________________________________________________________

Dominance definition according to Animal Behavior . high status in a social group, usually acquired as the result of aggression, that involves the tendency to take priority in access to limited resources, as food, mates, or space. 

The dominance theory again stems from what wolves did under captivity. When an unknown wolf rolls another it isn't to ask them to have better manners it is for the kill.
Puppies know we are not their dog mothers and when they are put into this position they are afraid because instinctively they know it is for the kill. At the time they either shut down (fear = helplessness) or their fear makes them fight back. 

Tons of dogs went through these training techniques and came out the other end great dogs. There have been many others that most likely didn't. With the knowledge in behavior science we now know that many dogs end up with issues when these techniques are done. We don't know which pups would still come out okay using these training techniques and which ones will not. IMO, I want to give owners the training tools that will give much less risk to having a dog with issues.

"The last thing I need is to be seen as a whip-cracking dog abuser . I believe in kindness, bonding, and positive reinforcement, but also in unequivocal firmness when needed. "

Owners can be firm and fair without using dominance.
And I do not think of you as you have described above. We all want what is best for all the dogs. I believe you love your dogs just as much as I love mine, that you are a kind and loving person over all that was giving advice that has worked for you and your dog.

Growling, snarling and biting can be normal behaviors for a puppy. We as the owners need to teach them what is acceptable behavior when they are dealing with humans vs other pups. We want to teach bite inhibition (soft bites then eventually no bites) but we do not want to actually stop a pup from growling. Growling is a form of communication. The pup is telling us something by growling if we stop this communication they may take the next step and just bite.


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## canine_mommy

mers123 said:


> I tried the peanut butter - well *almond butter* since my daughter is allergic to peanuts


Almonds can be bad for dogs. I've read in some places that they are toxic, while others say harmful but not toxic. The only nuts that are safe for dogs are peanuts, that too in limited quantities. 

Here's the ASPCA link about Almonds: http://www.aspca.org/Pet-care/ask-the-expert/ask-the-expert-poison-control/almonds.aspx It says Almonds are not toxic, but can be bad for the tummy.

As for your biting issue, I think you are getting a lot of great advice. I would refrain from the "dominance" technique. There are a lot of other ways to train, than holding your pup down to the floor and shouting into her face. Please remember that she doesn't speak "Human". It will take a little while to understand what you're saying and what you expect of her, but she will get there.


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## toliva

mers123 said:


> I can't tell my 11 month old not to crawl..it's her only method to get around. Our kitchen is not separated from the living room like some houses -


For the first point, of course you can't. This was a rule we had in our house because my kids had a bad habit of crawling on their hands and knees to play with the puppy. To the puppy it was like putting up a sign saying "bite me." If I had an 11-month old, I absolutely would not let her crawl in the presence of the puppy unless I was within hands reach at all times.

Many newer houses these days are like you describe, including mine. Our living room and kitchen are one huge room. We had to create a separation because we had to confine the puppy to a single area. You should have seen our house - it was like an x-pen exploded in here. At one point we were using 3 x-pens to make our kitchen into one confined area. Whatever you do, you absolutely must make sure that the children and the puppy have separate areas to play.

Really good advice from solinvictus: 


> One thing new puppy owners should think about is that the puppy is always learning even when we aren't actively teaching them and they can learn tons of bad habits during that time. It is easier to use some management (they aren't learning bad habits) vs trying to fix bad habits later on.


This is exactly why we controlled our puppy's environment and still do, to a lesser extent.


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## MercyMom

You're not alone. My Mercy jumps on and mouths my 2 3/4 year old son too. We are cosistently working with her over and over with patience. Joshua is too young to stand still to get her to stop. It takes work to get them to stop mouthing! Just don't give up!


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## nolefan

solinvictus said:


> We don't know which pups would still come out okay using these training techniques and which ones will not. IMO, *I want to give owners the training tools that will give much less risk to having a dog with issues*.


If I could give you a standing ovation for this, Solinvictus, I would. Not being able to see a dog first hand and witness a situation makes it so important that we be very careful about how we give advice and make suggestions on this board. I know none of us would ever want to steer someone in the wrong direction.


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## lynn0624rj

My puppy used to bite us a lot. I do find if you say ouch in a really high pitch voice. Make it sound like it really hurt. That helped a lot and I always kept stuff for her to chew on. My puppy likes the dental chews from Walmart the best. Also, certain games does encourage the biting. Don't play any kind of tug of war games. Hope this helps.


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## mers123

Thanks again for everyone's advice on here. I spoke with a trainer this evening...he suggested too the bitter apples spray and spray it IN her mouth when she bites us. Then he said we should RE OFFER our hand..NOT A TOY. I asked why..he said because the toy teaches them that they will be bribed for toys. He said if I re-offer my bitter tasting hand, she won't want it, and she will learn quickly that it is not worth chewing on. This man also said that although he teaches one on one classes he thinks puppy classes are the way to go...sounds like a honest chap to me. So i'm going to sign up with him. He has classes in his home...and every dog who comes in has to show proof of current shots to even get in the door..sounds pretty safe to me as far as the diseases go for Penny. He said he didn't think a private instructor was the way to go for a puppy - that that was something for a problem dog with real behavioual problems, which Penny doesn't have...she's just a puppy. So I think i'm going to follow many of your wonderful people on here advice and sign up for this class, get the bitter apple spray, and perhaps put up the x-pen, much to my husbands objection!!


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## mers123

canine_mommy said:


> Almonds can be bad for dogs. I've read in some places that they are toxic, while others say harmful but not toxic. The only nuts that are safe for dogs are peanuts, that too in limited quantities.
> 
> Here's the ASPCA link about Almonds: ASPCA | Almonds It says Almonds are not toxic, but can be bad for the tummy.
> 
> As for your biting issue, I think you are getting a lot of great advice. I would refrain from the "dominance" technique. There are a lot of other ways to train, than holding your pup down to the floor and shouting into her face. Please remember that she doesn't speak "Human". It will take a little while to understand what you're saying and what you expect of her, but she will get there.


Thanks for letting me know about the almond butter..i didn't realize it was dangerous. I'll be sure to not use it again. I'll try it with some of the Kong squeeze I have..maybe that will work for her. PB is just a no-go in our house...


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## JazzSkye

solinvictus said:


> Puppies know we are not their dog mothers and when they are put into this position they are afraid because instinctively they know it is for the kill. At the time they either shut down (fear = helplessness) or their fear makes them fight back.
> 
> Tons of dogs went through these training techniques and came out the other end great dogs. There have been many others that most likely didn't. With the knowledge in behavior science we now know that many dogs end up with issues when these techniques are done. We don't know which pups would still come out okay using these training techniques and which ones will not. IMO, I want to give owners the training tools that will give much less risk to having a dog with issues.
> 
> "The last thing I need is to be seen as a whip-cracking dog abuser . I believe in kindness, bonding, and positive reinforcement, but also in unequivocal firmness when needed. "
> 
> Owners can be firm and fair without using dominance.
> And I do not think of you as you have described above. We all want what is best for all the dogs. I believe you love your dogs just as much as I love mine, that you are a kind and loving person over all that was giving advice that has worked for you and your dog.


Solinvictus: Human hierarchy has to be established over the pup--I call that dominance. The pup must stop unwanted aggressive behavior--I call that submitting to the dominant (human) will. It should not and must not be violent, however. We still use the (gentle) "roll-over" in training here, accompanied by a growl, and I've yet to see a puppy terrified or broken by it. It's a rapid and effective means of putting a stop to biting. But as I said, I'm open to other sources of info and will look into the articles you took the trouble to post.

I'd also like to add that I much appreciate being able to have a cordial difference of opinion with you--not always the case on this forum. This allows for a free exchange of ideas and info so that others can consider their options and make their own informed choices without weeding through the potshots :banghead: 

Mers123: Glad you're getting puppy training and some direction for you and Penny. Let us know how she comes along :wave:


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## solinvictus

"Human hierarchy has to be established over the pup--"

I don't want to establish a hierarchy over the pup. I want a willing partnership with the pup. I want that pup to do (acceptable behaviors) because the pup learns that they are fun and those behaviors bring rewards. (for the pup who is a very social animal that reward is in the end lots of attention and social time with me and other people.

I do look at it as a dance. I as the owner take the male position in the dance as the leader. If my partner isn't following my lead then I need to make sure that my lead is very clear because if I am not giving clear signals I am confusing my partner. I would not give (positive) punishment to my partner because then my partner will not want to dance with me. In the dance if I punish my partner I am souring our relationship.

"I call that dominance. The pup must stop unwanted aggressive behavior"

I don't see puppy behavior as aggressive. I just see it as puppy/dog behavior. They are not out to dominate us. They are just using their natural skills to get what they want. Those skills can hurt humans so I need to give (teach) them alternate behaviors that are acceptable for them to do since they are living in our world. 

When a puppy becomes over threshold it is because I let it happen. I need to evaluate the situation and not let it happen the next time. 
Putting a puppy in the laying down side position (when over threshold) is telling that puppy that I can kill you. It does not matter if you do it gently or not. That position for a dog is one of major vulnerability. This does nothing for bonding and trust to the relationship. 

Until my puppy has some alternative behaviors if I get myself in the situation of a pup over threshold I would ignore the pup. (any attention is reward to that pup) if I cannot ignore the pup safely next to the pup, I will put a barrier between me and the pup and ignore the pup. Puppies are smart and will do what works so if I am consistent that pup will learn that unacceptable behavior means the fun goes away, acceptable behavior brings the fun back and keeps it there.

If I make a mistake in my training I have a dog that just doesn't understand the command (cue) and make my criteria clearer to get the dog to understand. I still have a dog that loves life and trusts me.

If I use those more aversive techniques and I make a mistake in my training my dog may still love life and trust me but he/she may not and my relationship is damaged with a dog that is intimidated and fearful of me. This is something much harder to fix.

I like Susan Garrett's suggestion of living in DO LAND vs living in Don't land.

We all have to walk our own path through life and follow our hearts.

It may sound like I am all about rainbows and unicorns but I believe in rules, being firm, and giving our dogs consistent, clear direction. I do not have to dominate a dog to do this. Puppies/dogs are smart some absolutely brilliant and it doesn't take long for them to understand that even if we are equal partners that I do control all the resources but life is fun and those resources are handed out very generously for acceptable behavior whether I asked for it or whether they made thier own choice to offer it.


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## Wyatt's mommy

Mistakes can be made in all techniques of training. I have seen OUT OF CONTROL dogs because owners are afraid of taking charge of their dogs. They are afraid they are going to hurt them. Kinda like the out of control kids of today who's parents want to be friends instead of parents.

If I have a puppy who is drawing blood on my children I need to take control.


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## mers123

Well i went ahead and decided to go with an in-home trainer. Penny had her first session last night and I think she did very well. We are working with an "umbilical" method, where she is attached to me via a leash as much as possible. This is going to also limit the biting of my kids, since I'll have control over her as much as possible. When she's not on the leash, she's in her crate, or sleeping as she does much of the day in her favorite spot, under the kitchen table. I'll keep you all posted!


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## Mssjnnfer

Rolling/pinning didn't work for Mojo. In fact, it made him turn into a growling, snarling MONSTER. It was terrifying and heartbreaking. We stopped and the demon within him went away. I would NEVER roll/pin a puppy. There are just so many other (better) ways to train.

As for your trainer... spraying bitter apple INTO the pup's mouth. I'm sorry, but I think that's cruel. Bitter apple on hands, clothing, leashes, whatever... that's what it's meant for, but not directly into their mouths.

And I've never heard of "re-offering" your hand instead of a toy. Do dogs even understand what bribing means? Sounds like they're trying to place human emotions on a puppy...


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## Thalie

mers123 said:


> Well i went ahead and decided to go with an in-home trainer. Penny had her first session last night and I think she did very well. We are working with an "umbilical" method, where she is attached to me via a leash as much as possible. This is going to also limit the biting of my kids, since I'll have control over her as much as possible. When she's not on the leash, she's in her crate, or sleeping as she does much of the day in her favorite spot, under the kitchen table. I'll keep you all posted!


To me that makes much sense and souns 100% better than the Bitter Apple in the mouth squirt or the dominance ideas. Puppies have sharp teeth and low-level self-control when faced with excitement of any kind, kiddos have soft skin and low-level self control when faced with a little pain. Limiting the interactions this way while taking every opportunity to teach her what you want her to do has a good chance of success in the long term. 

Thank you for you willingness to consider different approaches and methods of puppy raising, reflecting on the advice, and making a reasoned decision.


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## Discoverer

JazzSkye said:


> ... But biting (not to be confused with nipping or mouthing) is different. A puppy who is growling, snarling, and/or biting yong children can be grabbed by the collar or scruff and scolded, then put on his side so he understands this is unacceptable behavior. I wouldn't do it on an adult dog (good way to lose your fingers or part of your face), but puppies know their "youngster" status and will give in and modify their behavior far more easily than adults or adolescent dogs.


 As a matter of fact you got it exactly opposite - the ADULT dog should be scolded, but never grab by the scruff and shake the 10 weeks puppy! The only way he knows how to play at that age is biting and growling. There is absolutely no aggression toward your children, he just doesn't know how to play "human" way and that's your goal to teach him. The best way is redirect his hard biting to some fluffy and colorful toy. If you see the pup runs to your 6 years old, make some sound to get his attention and wave a toy, so he will start chase it. Play with him for awhile, let him bite the toys and anything else that he can bite. Another important thing - you'll have to start teaching your puppy a bite inhibition to control the force of his play-bites. Google for "bite inhibition " and read these articles. In general it is much better for you to walk away from the pup than to physically restrain him. The biter soon learns that hard bites interrupt an otherwise enjoyable play session. He learns to bite more softly once play resumes.Your pup should learn not to hurt people well before he is three months old. Ideally, by the time he is four-and-a-half months old — before he develops strong jaws and adult canine teeth — he should no longer be exerting any pressure when mouthing. Once again - forget everything you've ever read about dominance and alpha rolling for such young puppies. It's not just ineffective, but could create a huge problem in a future. Good luck!


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## dezymond

My pup is getting quite nippy as well. His bites hurt more than compared to last week. Your pup is much bigger than mine, I think mine is about 10lbs if not a little under 11lbs. Hope you can get that behavior fixed.


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## nolefan

Hey, Just wondering how Penny is doing and how you've liked your trainer? Hope it's going well.... Update and some new photos???


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## Megora

Never mind.


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## LibertyME

mylissyk said:


> And I would use the puppy pen or baby gates to keep her seperate from your kids more until she is a little older and starts learning not to put teeth on skin. I realize you got her to be a family pet for your kids, but for now until she can learn not to bite, you need more structure, kids play time with the puppy put up, puppy play time when kids are occupied elsewhere. And play time together must be *strictly supervised*, if puppy gets too mouthy, Oops, time out.


Amen
One hand on the puppy at all times when interacting with a child.
EVERY time she nips a child and the child squeals and/or pulls away... youve increase the odds that she will nip again.
If you cant have one hand on the pup, then separation is key....


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## mers123

*Update on Penny - 16 weeks old!!*

As requsted I am posting an update on my wonderful puppy Penny. Penny turned 16 weeks old today. She is the most wonderful dog I have ever owned by far. She is still very mouthy....and still biting our skin when she gets excited. But the umbilical method our trainer taught us has worked very well so far. When she gets out of hand crazy off the leash I just grab hold of the leash and she instantly calms down. Or if I am unable to hold her leash because I'm cooking, or feeding the baby, I put her in her crate. She goes in very willingly now and I always give her a bone while she's in there to continue getting her "biting" out of her for that moment. She is super smart and has already learned many basic commants - sit, down, stay, look at me, and be nice. She is doing great with her illness - she is recovering from a bout of Puppy Stangles. Tomorrow we lower her prednisone again to half a pill every other day....she's been on it for 2 months now. One more week and we hope to have her completely off the meds. Here are some more recent pics of her too!


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## nolefan

Thanks for the update! I'm sorry to hear that she was sick  but glad things are improving... both physically and mentally! You're so smart to stick with a good trainer, the time you put in now will result in a wonderful dog. Keep practicing as she gets older and your friends will all be jealous of your extremely well behaved dog. Glad to hear you all are doing well  she is just precious!


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## roxieyap

I would just like to share my experience with my dog Hummer and my son. Hummer was into biting and nipping when he was still a puppy. And he does that to my son was 6 years old then. I noticed that when I was the one reprimanding him, he listened to me. So I engaged my son to do the same. Puppy biting is a serious thing and should be dealt with at an early age.


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