# My Babies, MIA and LORD



## naderalmaleh (Dec 11, 2007)

Hello Everyone..
I finally learned how to upload photos.
Here are my babies:
LORD and MIA
Mia is the one with the red collar 
They are both born on 1st October 2007.. Brother and sister 
Now they're almost 10 weeks old I love them so much. I got them when they were 4 weeks old and now they're 10!!


----------



## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Awwwww, what sweeties! Thanks for posting the pictures of them!

Jazzys Mom


----------



## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

Gosh, they are very very cute. Must be quite a handful at times. How come you happened to get them so very very young?


----------



## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

OMG---two of them at the same time - I'm super jealous.


----------



## naderalmaleh (Dec 11, 2007)

I got them from my parents.. they have 2 goldens male and female 3 years old and also a brother and sister, they gave birth to 7 adorable puppies.. i took two of their puppies and the other 4 are now in an adoption place, one died.  I loved them all but MIA and LORD are the only ones that got into me the first time i saw them.


----------



## kerribear's golden kids (May 17, 2007)

ADORABLE! But taken from Mom dog why to young! But glad to hear they are doing so well now @ 10 weks old...


----------



## naderalmaleh (Dec 11, 2007)

They're doing so well.. I know it was early but it's fine i am used to puppies this age. They were taken early because I work and live away from my parents, different countries!! I had to take the beauties on my way back from vacation.. because i wont have the chance to get them if they stayed until they are 5 months old!!!


----------



## kerribear's golden kids (May 17, 2007)

Glad you got them when you did.


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I hope they get mom spayed to keep it from happening again.

Your puppies are adorable!


----------



## naderalmaleh (Dec 11, 2007)

I am glad too...  thx


----------



## naderalmaleh (Dec 11, 2007)

my parents want more and more puppies :S so... it's they're choice not mine


----------



## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

May I ask why your parents want more puppies if they give them away to an adoption place?

Did I read that the parents are brother and sister, or do your parents have 4 adult dogs?

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with either of these practices. In fact, I find them both disgusting and cruel.


----------



## norabrown (Jul 20, 2007)

Such cute babies! Are your pups from the UK? They are that light, almost white color. 

How did you pick your names for them?


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

your parents want to breed a brother and sister together and give the puppies to rescue repeatedly?


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

naderalmaleh said:


> my parents want more and more puppies :S so... it's they're choice not mine


You might encourage your parents to reconsider this. I'm sorry to say, but they are being very irresponsible. It may be "their choice", but it is most assuredly NOT the choice of the puppies produced, who are going to rescues... What are your parents getting out of this??? I am willing to bet that they have not done any health clearances on the dogs that they are breeding. And, while cute puppies, these are honestly not exhibiting the breed's desired characteristics. Additionally, removing puppies from their mother, and other littermates, at 4 weeks old is detrimental to their development. I am concerned that you yourself think that it was okay. It would in fact have been preferable to have waited, even if 5 months.


----------



## PeanutsMom (Oct 14, 2007)

I'm curious as to what country this is?


----------



## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

This is the same person that has 10 yrs experience in training dogs. The solution to a 10 week old puppy is to shout at them and if they dont listen then chain them. But when I questioned them on it, "I meant to say crate them". http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/golden-retriever-puppy-up-1-year/25782-biting-not-nipping.html 

I can see where he/she got all their experience. Parent breeding brothers and sisters. I think this is just wrong. And taking a puppy away from the mother at 4 weeks. That just makes me sick. The puppyies are still learning from their mother, things they cant learn from the human parent and still nursing. If you want a puppy that bad, go back when they are old enough to bring home to your country. I am sorry if I sound harsh with this member but everything they have said is just irresponsible. JMO


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

BeauShel said:


> This is the same person that has 10 yrs experience in training dogs. The solution to a 10 week old puppy is to shout at them and if they dont listen then chain them. But when I questioned them on it, "I meant to say crate them". http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/golden-retriever-puppy-up-1-year/25782-biting-not-nipping.html
> 
> I can see where he/she got all their experience. Parent breeding brothers and sisters. I think this is just wrong. And taking a puppy away from the mother at 4 weeks. That just makes me sick. The puppyies are still learning from their mother, things they cant learn from the human parent and still nursing. If you want a puppy that bad, go back when they are old enough to bring home to your country. I am sorry if I sound harsh with this member but everything they have said is just irresponsible. JMO


 
Great. I missed that one, thankfully. I'd have gone postal...
Is there a full moon somewhere? I have NEVER seen so much really disturbing stuff on this forum since One Whose Name Must Not Be Spoken left.
Whew.


----------



## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

I've seen a lot of stuff on this board that has disturbed me, but this takes the cake. These people who appear to no little or nothing about the breed decide to breed siblings and then dump the puppies on a rescue to care for. And they apparently enjoy it so much they want to do it again! I can't even put into words how upset and revulsed I am by this.


----------



## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

Of course everyone who posted here is right. Well except for I didn't get where the parents of the pups were brother and sister I believe the poster meant the puppies were brother and sister. 

I tired to be diplomatic in my post since it seemed to me that this person was posting from another country far far away without the same animal sensitivity we have here in North America and other places. I really think we should try to educate posters like this when they do come to our board and not be so hard on them while still getting our point across. Remember even WE haven't been doing such a great job with our pets until the last 20 to 30 years, if that. I doubt this person will ever return to this forum to learn more.


----------



## naderalmaleh (Dec 11, 2007)

Thank you very much Oaklys Dad... It's weird how reactions start escalating in this forum, well yes they are brother and sister. And in fact you're wondering where my parents live, They live in Orange County California and they have done health clearance and their vet encouraged them to do so saying that people will want to rescue such beautiful dogs espacially that they're pure and healthy.
Anyway, I will stay in this forum for only one reason, EDUCATING THE UNEDUCATED and showing people that not everyone who has a dog knows how to deal with it or how to react about it.

Oh and also *BeauShel you really have to relax and take it easy on the offenses.
yes I happen to know alot about dogs and when you take them from their mother or littermates at such a very young age (i know) the care must be doubled and you must feed them special milk. Oh and by the way, the puppy training or about the previous post about nipping, a simple misuse of words (that i corrected myself!!! if you read more in the thread) gets you all excited. Well anyway i don't practice such methods on my dogs because i know how to raise them without all these mistakes. Also in this world there aren't any one who's better than the other in raising their children there are in fact different methods for raising them.

Believe me everyone, if everytime i will post anything in this forum and get this reaction just let me know that you people don't give a chance to anyone to explain anything. And let me know that you want me out and I will be leaving this forum with dignity.
*


----------



## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

I'm still a little confused, and I'm not trying to be mean here, but I don't think your last response quite clarified (things are often misconstrued when typed, as opposed to spoken). I know that your puppies are brother and sister. When you say "yes, they are brother and sister" are you referring to your puppies? Or are you referring to their parents??

Julie and Jersey


----------



## naderalmaleh (Dec 11, 2007)

What my parents are doing is non of my business to be honest with you all. If i tell you the truth, that doesnt mean i am with what they're doing thats why i said before that it's not my choice it's theirs. Anyway I love my puppies and my adult german shephard NICKIE so much. I am proud to have them and very proud of how i raised NICKIE and how the puppies are amazingly smart in the house.
I will not wait for any post. I just wished to share my lovely GR with you all but you seem to not like new people around here so I am going to sign out and never again. Thank you very much for your lovely offensive posts about me and my puppies.


----------



## naderalmaleh (Dec 11, 2007)

The parents are brother and sister (same father, different mother) 2 months difference. my puppies are brother and sister from the same litter. Hope everything is clarified in here.


----------



## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

:dblthumb2 Forums are very dynamic place where people tend to REACT quickly and express themselves freely. In my opinion sometimes too freely. Can you offer some insight into why your parents breed goldens and where exactly the pups go?


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I refuse to believe that any veterinarian, California or anywhere else, would encourage someone to deliberately do a brother/sister breeding, strictly for them to go into rescue. I'd like to allow you the benefit of the doubt : Please, provide the name of this veterinarian, because if there is a language issue that caused you and your parents to misinterpret something, it needs to be addressed. Additionally, please provide the registered names of the male and female so that health clearances can be verified. Again, there may well be a language issue here.
I am not an UNEDUCATED person as regards dogs by any stretch of the imagination. Yet, I will admit that I am TRULY gaining an education over the past couple of days on this forum, and what I am learning is NOT good...




naderalmaleh said:


> Thank you very much Oaklys Dad... It's weird how reactions start escalating in this forum, well yes they are brother and sister. And in fact you're wondering where my parents live, They live in Orange County California and they have done health clearance and their vet encouraged them to do so saying that people will want to rescue such beautiful dogs espacially that they're pure and healthy.
> Anyway, I will stay in this forum for only one reason, EDUCATING THE UNEDUCATED and showing people that not everyone who has a dog knows how to deal with it or how to react about it.
> 
> Oh and also *BeauShel you really have to relax and take it easy on the offenses.*
> ...


----------



## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Don't do that, that wasn't my intent at all. I was curious as there seemed to be confusion throughout the thread. You are right, you can't control what your parents do. And it is great that you love your puppies as much as you do. I think the concern that people are showing on the site is that breeding in this way can lead to MAJOR health problems in the offspring, so people were hoping that by educating you of this fact you may be able to have some influence with your parents in helping them to see this isn't the best way to get puppies. I have at no point since you joined the forum attacked you, and that was not what I was trying to do in my last post.

Julie and Jersey


----------



## naderalmaleh (Dec 11, 2007)

I know all about the health problems... Iam not with this. And i know Jersey's mom that you dont have any intention of offending me whatsoever. It's just that i have my puppies now and they're healthy and perfect and i cant control my parents life.. i was just sharing how i got the puppies until i was showered with all the posts!!!


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

naderalmaleh said:


> I know all about the health problems... Iam not with this. And i know Jersey's mom that you dont have any intention of offending me whatsoever. It's just that i have my puppies now and they're healthy and perfect and i cant control my parents life.. i was just sharing how i got the puppies until i was showered with all the posts!!!


Your puppies are only 10 weeks old. Hereditary disease may not raise its ugly head for some time. As the product of a brother/sister breeding, I hope that you are prepared for the very real possibilty that those puppies will have problems. I am glad that you so obviously love them, and that in your eyes they are perfect. But to a long time breeder with years of experience with dogs bred to be within a standard, I see them more critically. 
You are in Lebonon, according to the PM you sent me. I am aware of cultural differences, but cannot believe that breeding siblings, even half siblings, only to be put into rescue, would be considered acceptable.

I hope that novice people coming to this forum are able to be educated, as well, but the lessons that you are teaching are ill-advised.


----------



## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Naderalmaleh, where do you live? When you say your parents give the puppies to "rescue" what does that mean?


----------



## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

Oh No!!!! I hate the thought of another "UGLY" thread here. :doh: Please take this as a "Teachable Moment" here and help this person person teach their parents to be responsible breeders or non breeders.


----------



## naderalmaleh (Dec 11, 2007)

I just hope that my puppies will be fine and healthy in the long run eventhough i am aware of the possibility of health problems. but I will make sure that this entire thread is sent to my parents email to show them how much trouble they caused for only me sharing the story of my puppies' parents with you :S


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Oaklys Dad said:


> Oh No!!!! I hate the thought of another "UGLY" thread here. :doh: Please take this as a "Teachable Moment" here and help this person person teach their parents to be responsible breeders or non breeders.


Unfortunately, this is not going to happen. The OP has pm'd me twice, now, and insists that a veterinarian has advised his parents that this is good breeding. I would love to have the name of that vet, as he would be reported to the AVMA so fast his head would spin. If this story is true, it is completely unethical to suggest that siblings, even half siblings, be bred only to produce dogs to go into rescue. Perhaps this vet is from another country, as well, but regardless, this is not sound breeding practices, and these people are being encouraged to continue.

:doh:


----------



## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

I hope that the puppies are happy and healthy too. And while you may have beeing just saying it, it may pay to share some of the opinions shared here with your parents. Encourage them to speak to the vet again. Is it possible that he was trying to say that both the dogs were good candidates for breeding, but did not mean to eachother? For example, if he said something vague like "I see no problem with you breeding them," that could easily have been misunderstood by your parents to mean breeding the dogs to eachother when in fact he had in mind to breed them to other dogs. Or maybe the vet didn't know they were related? I'm just spitballing here, as I obviously don't know what was said, but I would personally question the credentials of a vet who purposely encouraged the breeding of half-siblings. If this is what the vet meant, maybe you can encourage you parents to find a new one who will do a better job of educating them in the future.

Julie and Jersey


----------



## naderalmaleh (Dec 11, 2007)

I agree with you all.. This is unethical and you're 100% right in that the vet is not from US. 
I will be more careful in stating the facts in other posts that's if i post other ones :S I am still shocked by the responses! And again I will mail this thread to my parents to show them what a huge mistake they're making.
I am just so worried now about my puppies having health problems down the line  I got so attached to them. This sucks


----------



## naderalmaleh (Dec 11, 2007)

Whatever the vet meant i will make sure the message is delivered.
As you're upset about the whole situation, I am very sorry about it!!


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

naderalmaleh said:


> Whatever the vet meant i will make sure the message is delivered.
> As you're upset about the whole situation, I am very sorry about it!!


Good for you, naderalmaleh, I hope that your input has some influence. 
All you can do regarding your own puppies is provide love, excellent nutrition and vet care, and hope that they will be fine. If not, perhaps your parents would then see the results of their mistake in breeding and the consequences created. Of course, I hope that your puppies are healthy.


----------



## PeanutsMom (Oct 14, 2007)

Please don't let everyone worry you! Whats done is done and you have already said you will do your best with your parents.I'm sure your babies will be fine  From what I have heard there are breeders out there who inbreed to keep the lines pure.I'm not saying this is a good thing, simply that your parents are not the only ones doing it and that your puppies have no worse of a chance then their puppies.Also I think we have a misunderstanding going on here as to where the puppies go after breeding.


----------



## naderalmaleh (Dec 11, 2007)

I appreciate the good heart for all of you members and how you love your babies so much. I do too and I will make sure the message is delivered from all of you and especially from me. I am glad that you opened my eyes to a whole new understanding of dogs genetics that i really dont know anything about.
I will use this thread to post pictures of my babies as they're growing up because i am sure i am not the only GR lover in this world 

It's time to feed my babies


----------



## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

I agree you should do all you can to ensure healthy and happy puppies. Do your parents do this as a way to make extra money?? It is really not worth it at the expense of an animal. They are living things with needs and feelings and should not be treated in this manner. Please do try and make your mom and dad understand they not doing anything positive here. Also, I hope your vet was mis-understood because if he infact condones inbreeding like that he should get the boot. He is obviously not fit to be in that position. Also PM, there is a huge huge diffrence between inbreeding and linebreeding. That type of breeding is incest. You will find a very large support system here for when you address this issue with your parents. People are always here and we would all be happy yo help you with anything that may arise.


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

PeanutsMom said:


> Please don't let everyone worry you! Whats done is done and you have already said you will do your best with your parents.I'm sure your babies will be fine  From what I have heard there are breeders out there who inbreed to keep the lines pure.I'm not saying this is a good thing, simply that your parents are not the only ones doing it and that your puppies have no worse of a chance then their puppies.


Many breeders linebreed, rarely anything as close as this breeding. And it is done with a purpose, not to "keep lines pure", but to strengthen certain traits - structual, cosmetic, temperament, movement, genetic health, etc. And before ever even being considered, much research is done of a very complete vertical pedigree. To simplify the explanation, linebreeding may be done to a certain point, and then, it is necessary to outcross, although those dogs might be linebred within their own lines. 
The puppies from this particular breeding do have a worse chance of problems in that it is very unlikely that there is a solid history of health clearances, and simply given their appearance, the breeding certainly wasn't done to strengthen desired traits. 
Again, I hope for the best outcome, but I certainly don't want newcomers to think that such breeding practice, which in this case essentially amounts to the breeding of a male and female, simply because they are there, and no consideration made for the pedigree, structure, health history, etc. is advocated or encouraged.


----------



## PeanutsMom (Oct 14, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> Many breeders linebreed, rarely anything as close as this breeding. And it is done with a purpose, not to "keep lines pure", but to strengthen certain traits - structual, cosmetic, temperament, movement, genetic health, etc. And before ever even being considered, much research is done of a very complete vertical pedigree. To simplify the explanation, linebreeding may be done to a certain point, and then, it is necessary to outcross, although those dogs might be linebred within their own lines.
> The puppies from this particular breeding do have a worse chance of problems in that it is very unlikely that there is a solid history of health clearances, and simply given their appearance, the breeding certainly wasn't done to strengthen desired traits.
> Again, I hope for the best outcome, but I certainly don't want newcomers to think that such breeding practice, which in this case essentially amounts to the breeding of a male and female, simply because they are there, and no consideration made for the pedigree, structure, health history, etc. is advocated or encouraged.


I'm no breeder! You guys know that.:doh: I just hate to think someone has extra worries tonight because of us.She'll talk to her parents and they may or may not listen but regardless she has two sweet babies that she loves very much.I'm glad they have her


----------



## naderalmaleh (Dec 11, 2007)

HIM not HER


----------



## JensDreamboy (May 25, 2007)

Just catching up on all this. Now that the ugly is out of the way, welcome to the forum. I'm sorry that you have extra worries with your pups, but this is a great place to get solid advice and guidance. I'm sure we would all love to keep seeing pictures of your beauties as they grow!! Good luck with talking to your parents, I hope you can help them change their ways.


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

The parents are not full siblings. They have the same sire and different mothers. Is that what I am hearing?


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

OK I read further. I'm glad you're going to talk to your parents about their dogs


----------



## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I am glad that you are going to talk to your parents about the breeding. I just worry because there are enough homeless dogs of all ages needing homes and dont think that they need to breed to put dogs in rescue. Hopefully your parents will listen with an open mind. 
I hope that your puppies continue to have good health and hope you share their growing up pictures with us. 
I am sorry if I sounded alittle tough it just bothered me so much and I love goldens alot and with all their hereditary issues already breeding half siblings just seemed wrong to me. 
Good luck with your puppies and talking to your parents.


----------



## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

Although some of our responses (mine included) may seem harsh, please understand that it's because we all love goldens so much. We get upset if we think someone is doing something, regardless of their intent, that will hurt the breed as a whole and individual animals in particular. Breeding is something best left to those who are really well informed and know what they are doing. And there are so many animals in rescue all the time, including many, many goldens, that the thought of anyone breeding more with the intent of giving them to a rescue group really concerns us. I wish you luck in helping your parents understand the implications of their breeding practices.


----------



## naderalmaleh (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks for the support, as a matter of fact I did send an email but got no response. I'll have to wait a couple of days, if they don't reply i will be calling them to stop this madness!! I would never forgive them if anything will be wrong with my puppies down the line because of their mistakes that i wasn't aware of until I joined this forum. This is a great forum and I am very appreciative of all the responses and the advice.


----------



## GoldenDaisy (Jul 16, 2007)

They are so adorable. I love the light color. How nice you have 2X puppy breath and kisses.


----------



## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

I am so happy you have re-considered. We will all be here for you during the process. No puppy is perfect but the odds of problems are cut back when breeding is done properly. Hopefully everything turns out good with you puppies. Good luck in days ahead.


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

naderalmaleh said:


> Thanks for the support, as a matter of fact I did send an email but got no response. I'll have to wait a couple of days, if they don't reply i will be calling them to stop this madness!! I would never forgive them if anything will be wrong with my puppies down the line because of their mistakes that i wasn't aware of until I joined this forum. This is a great forum and I am very appreciative of all the responses and the advice.


Good for you. Perhaps some of the postings made her, and in pm's, will be able to be shown to them and will affect them positively, as they did you.


----------

