# Issue with Teaching "Leave It"



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I start teaching "leave it" first on a leash with everyday things the puppy might get distracted with, like a rock or pot of flowers, yanking on the leash with"leave it" - they catch on really fast, and then build up to high value treats from your hand. Tone of voice is also very important with this command.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Now that I think about it, I have never taught leave it from a treat from my hand, I think that would be a bad thing for a show dog because we are always baiting them. I will put treats on the ground and teach leave it that way, that comes really in handy in the show ring, especially when handlers throw bait on the floor.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

cubbysan said:


> Now that I think about it, I have never taught leave it from a treat from my hand, I think that would be a bad thing for a show dog because we are always baiting them. I will put treats on the ground and teach leave it that way, that comes really in handy in the show ring, especially when handlers throw bait on the floor.


Yes, this is my concern, too. Now, my older dog did learn to both bait and not "mug" my hand-- but he's more methodical than my puppy. My puppy is very different-- kind of throws his whole self into what he's learning.


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## FosterGolden (Mar 10, 2014)

I never yank my dog or yell. In my experience that has resulted in the dog gulping or snatching and running with the item (I used to teach it this way). Leave it is a cue for us. It means stop what you are doing and come to me and get something better. I say the cue normally, not like "no!". My leave it treat is always something pretty amazing and as the dog is older and more mature, since the leave it cue has a positive CER to the cue, I can successfully use whatever I happen to have. 

I was more systematic with my older dog and it was taught in the house. With my younger dog, we basically went to "leave it bootcamp" aka the beach, when he was a puppy. He's pretty food motivated and I wasn't expecting so much junk on the beach, so we went through a pretty large bag of Charlie Bears that weekend! I was close and each time he went for something I was there, waved the food in front of his face, lured him away, and gave it to him with lots of praise. Often I jackpotted him with a few cookies. That was three years ago and he's rock solid. 

I never tell my dogs to leave food in my hand. For the food I want the puppy to leave I would put it on the floor, possibly in a container that he can't get open. But, I would start with something simple so he gets the hang of it and then graduate to actual food. Your puppy might be getting stuck because he is trying hard to be right and your timing is not great or he is afraid to make a mistake or you are just being unclear. Sometimes when they don't know how to win they'll just sit there and do nothing.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

FosterGolden said:


> I was more systematic with my older dog and it was taught in the house. With my younger dog, we basically went to "leave it bootcamp" aka the beach, when he was a puppy. He's pretty food motivated and I wasn't expecting so much junk on the beach, so we went through a pretty large bag of Charlie Bears that weekend! I was close and each time he went for something I was there, waved the food in front of his face, lured him away, and gave it to him with lots of praise. Often I jackpotted him with a few cookies. That was three years ago and he's rock solid.


For me with my older dog, sometimes this works and in other scenarios it created an unwanted chain of behaviors. When we used this method with my older dog re: the cat, he'd learn that approaching and then leaving the cat meant he got a treat. But that just means he'd keep going back to the cat. How do you break that chain? (Oh, and if we didn't treat him, that just means he'd bother the cat by sniffing him.) Is it just increasing the time that you give the treat so that you build duration? 



FosterGolden said:


> I never tell my dogs to leave food in my hand. For the food I want the puppy to leave I would put it on the floor, possibly in a container that he can't get open. But, I would start with something simple so he gets the hang of it and then graduate to actual food. Your puppy might be getting stuck because he is trying hard to be right and your timing is not great or he is afraid to make a mistake or you are just being unclear. Sometimes when they don't know how to win they'll just sit there and do nothing.


I agree; putting the food on the floor is what has been working for us (he's understanding), but I wasn't sure this was the best way. Since other trainers are so successful at getting their dogs to understand both concepts (leave food in hand and follow food as lure) I want to know what my missing piece is... but I suppose I'd have to have someone watch me in person. I am guessing the biggest issue is making sure my hand cues are very precise in terms of being different enough when I am luring vs. holding the food.

Thank you for your insights!


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Honestly, teaching it either way is fine because you're rewarding the dog for looking away from the food and making eye contact with you. If you spend a lot of time teaching attention (which you should whether your game is obedience or conformation or pet obedience) it's all ok. Whether you hold the treat in your hand or cover it on the ground with your hand, eventually the dog will get tired of digging unsuccessfully at the treat and look away from the treat (click and reward) and then should also be looking to you with a "WTH" look (click and treat). The food in any situation he is first off - looking away from the treat but ultimately - looking at you. If you ever want to try to get a CD on a dog you simply cannot spend too much time on building attention (eye contact) and rewarding that. It's the ultimate foundation for partner work.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

nolefan said:


> Honestly, teaching it either way is fine because you're rewarding the dog for looking away from the food and making eye contact with you. If you spend a lot of time teaching attention (which you should whether your game is obedience or conformation or pet obedience) it's all ok. Whether you hold the treat in your hand or cover it on the ground with your hand, eventually the dog will get tired of digging unsuccessfully at the treat and look away from the treat (click and reward) and then should also be looking to you with a "WTH" look (click and treat). The food in any situation he is first off - looking away from the treat but ultimately - looking at you. If you ever want to try to get a CD on a dog you simply cannot spend too much time on building attention (eye contact) and rewarding that. It's the ultimate foundation for partner work.


I did this with my first dog (focused on eye contact) and believe it or not, it caused a lot of issues! He gave us VERY intense eye contact which meant we couldn't use food as a lure easily and on walks... all he did was give us eye contact and expect treats... then get frustrated when he couldn't get them even though we focused on being like a slot machine and not an ATM. He rarely would just enjoy his walk. I found my puppy doing the same thing yesterday on a walk (hyper focus on eye contact) so I want to avoid this issue and find a balance... I know most people (inc our trainers) have always pushed for automatic check-ins but it has not worked out well for me.

Our new puppy will be a show dog. Our older dog has managed to learn when to give us eye contact for "permission" to take food and how to bait correctly in the ring... but I want to approach this methodically so that eye contact isn't the default. Any ideas about that?

This is what I need:
Follow food as a lure
Stare at food as bait
Don't mug hand for food

I am trying to think of when I need eye contact. I'll have to think some more. Right now on walks, I am happy if the dogs just look away from distractions (dogs, squirrels, etc.) vs. look at me. Maybe I only need it for permission to go to an object/animal (human or otherwise)-- like my dog will look at me to "go sniff" on walks instead of pulling me to trees... he is good about that (older dog-- puppy has not learned this yet) or take his dinner.

All of your comments are really helping me think through the process. Thank you!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Honestly.... if something is in my hands, I train the dogs to "wait" until I say "take it" or "eat it" or some other release kind of word. 

If my dogs go to snatch something from my hands, I usually just close my fingers around the object and mainly focus on "take it nice".

For dog shows - this is huge, because I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who has had a dog try chomping my fingers off because the bait's good.... 

Training leave it around the house... I usually have my dog on leash to train the first part. Whether you are popping the leash or just hanging on so the dog pops himself, there is a correction when he tries lunging at a treat. The same time you say "leave it".

If you start early with a puppy - this with food on the floor in the kitchen or other set up types of things... you can quickly move on to having a dog who does not lunge at food or other stuff until you tell him to "go get it". 

The training of the verbal correction "no leave it" - ideally, when you say those words with a piece of something in your hand or on the table or whatever, your dog needs to actually turn his face away. 

If I were circling an object on leash, my dog would move away from the object when I say "no leave it". 

If you're not using corrections at all and have another way of training this - that's fine. But in the situation you are describing, the missing link is a "release" to the object. And obviously when baiting in the ring, you're never saying "leave it". It's fine. Won't break the dog. What will happen is he will learn that food in your hand is OK - unless you say "leave it". Which is appropriate.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Anele - there's obedience people who would KILL to have a pup giving focus the way you are describing.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

Megora said:


> Honestly.... if something is in my hands, I train the dogs to "wait" until I say "take it" or "eat it" or some other release kind of word.
> 
> If my dogs go to snatch something from my hands, I usually just close my fingers around the object and mainly focus on "take it nice".
> 
> ...


Right now, with the puppy, the release is the clicker or "yes." I have to work on "take it." (OT but do you use "Take it" when you want them to hold an item in their mouths... I would think that would be a different cue, right? "Take it" is more-- do what you want with the item but "hold" would be different-- hold the item in your mouth, yes?)

I think what I am struggling with (and probably overthinking) is the difference between FOLLOW the treat with your nose vs WAIT for the treat. The problem is, I like BOTH to be a default behavior depending on the scenario. 

My older dog usually does turn his face away, as you said, when I say "leave it" though he isn't proofed in every scenario. 

One thing my dog does NOT do is bring a piece of steak to me in his mouth... that's what my friend's Havanese does. Her cat will knock meat onto the ground and her dog will bring it to her! I don't know if I could ever train my dog for that.



Megora said:


> Anele - there's obedience people who would KILL to have a pup giving focus the way you are describing.


  I wasn't expecting a second dog to have the same focus! They are different... older was always more serious (once he thought he learned how to earn a treat, he was set on that being the "only" way) whereas the puppy seems to experiment a lot more, which is really fun with training.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Take it = Take from my hands or go fetch 

It literally means go get your mouth on that thing and hold it. 

The "hold" command is given early on when shaping the "take it", but is faded over time. 

Another release word and probably most common is "ok".

My guys bring stuff to me...  I usually can tell they have something when they parade back and forth in front of me with their heads tucked slightly. I get them to bring it over and "show me" just so I can be sure it's not going to kill them, but usually I let them have it and give it back. 

If the dog trusts that he can keep something - they can be trained to bring it to you. Even steak.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Megora said:


> Honestly.... if something is in my hands, I train the dogs to "wait" until I say "take it" or "eat it" or some other release kind of word......


This was my first thought on how to approach next. It is nice to have people to "talk it through with", fun to see how different people have trained things.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

I teach leave it entirely on leash so that I am in control. I am watching the ground constantly, and it's just by repetition and consistency. If there is something on the ground I don't want her to have, I say leave it and guide her by it. And give her a treat for paying more attention to me. If I miss, and she gets it, we work on drop it, which is a more direct exchange of object for treat, or I just pull the other thing out of her mouth or make her drop it as I give the command, and give her the treat. I feel like it's my job for the first year of my puppy's life, but it pays off.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

Sweet Girl, so far we don't have an issue with things on the ground-- he doesn't pick up things on walks, and he is in a puppy-proofed rooms. Whatever is in the yard is safe, minus a few rocks but we quickly overcame his interest with making treats better.

The main issue is his interaction with my older dog at this point (typical annoying puppy-- my older dog keeps trying to redirect him with toys) but we've been working on just calling him away from the dog with treats (or a little break in the crate) and it's working. I don't really like him being on leash around my other dog... I don't even let them wear collars together, to prevent accidents. That being said, I know how important "leave it" is in general even though we rarely have a need for it now, minus with my other dog. 

I appreciate all the insights and ideas. Thank you again!


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

I use Susan Garrett's "It's yer choice" to get a puppy not to mug my hand and they still will follow a lure. In the beginning training puppy is on a leash. Both Kikopup and Susan work these games without giving a verbal cue so the dog actually learns an automatic leave it. Later after the dog/pup has a total grasp of the behavior Kikopup will also teach a verbal cue. Both have youtube videos that have been put into the forum. Kikopup's more advanced leave it is actually listed as solving counter surfing but she has the shorter leave it also.
The very beginning of Susan's recaller program starts with the It's yer choice game and adds many layers to the game.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

solinvictus said:


> I use Susan Garrett's "It's yer choice" to get a puppy not to mug my hand and they still will follow a lure. In the beginning training puppy is on a leash. Both Kikopup and Susan work these games without giving a verbal cue so the dog actually learns an automatic leave it. Later after the dog/pup has a total grasp of the behavior Kikopup will also teach a verbal cue. Both have youtube videos that have been put into the forum. Kikopup's more advanced leave it is actually listed as solving counter surfing but she has the shorter leave it also.
> The very beginning of Susan's recaller program starts with the It's yer choice game and adds many layers to the game.


I was using It's Yer Choice. My puppy understood quickly. The issue came when (in a separate training session) he was then conflicted about following the food as a lure. He thought he should back off, like in It's Yer Choice.

Thank you!


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

Just wanted to update that we got this resolved! At training class, the teacher saw the issue with the hand targeting, so she suggested we use our foot to cover the treat. This worked like a charm, and then we moved onto using our hand. He understands the verbal cue now no matter where the treat is.


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## bixx (Sep 8, 2015)

method i used:
I had Amber on a sitting position in front of me and made a show of taking a treat out and putting it on the floor. As soon as her head goes down to sniff it (and try to eat it), I place my hand palm down above the treat, basically blocking her nose along with a "leave it". As soon as her head snaps up to look at me, I reward her with a treat (a different, more delicious kind) that I have hidden in my other hand. I do this a few times until she's not even trying to sniff a treat but simply looks to me for permission first. I never give the treat on the floor to her. I didn't have to use a clicker, but that's personal choice.

From this, it's walking on a leash and different scenarios like -- having food on the ground and walking past it, having something drop out of your pocket onto the ground, etc. Never ever yank the dog leash to emphasize the leave it command. If by this point the dog knows the command well, he will leave whatever it is alone.


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## joannabelle54 (Nov 25, 2017)

Hi! I teach Leave It as a cue on leash. 

I start the training by setting him up by placing a not so interesting (to him) treat on a paper plate or a plastic lid, in a room. I walk him toward it, but I don't talk to him at all while we are walking. As we get close enough to the treat that he looks at it, but not so close enough so that he can grab it, I say Leave It and do an about turn and walk away from the plate/lid. Granted, by the time we start working on Leave IT, he has learned to look at me whenever he hears my voice. As we walk away following the about turn I tell him "good boy!" and reward him with a super smelly/tasty reward. 

I keep practicing this, getting closer and closer to the treat on plate until we can walk right up to it without him trying to grab it. He gets rewarded with the awesome treats every time he doesn't grab for it. If he goes for the treat at any time, we start over. Eventually he will turn away from whatever he is interested in when I say Leave It, and accept whatever treat I have; if I don't happen to have a treat I make a party out of it by telling him "good boy!" and loving him up.


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