# Suddenly need house manners



## geonova (Nov 1, 2006)

Have friends come over and coach them ahead of time and tell them that when they come in the door and the dog is about to jump on them, to stick their knee out so the dog will bounce off them.....when the dog falls back, you can be there to quickly grab ahold and keep her lying down with a firm "no"...followed by a sit/stay for several minutes until the dog calms down. That will help to teacher that jumping up is bad and is associated with a knee in the chest!


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

When you find out let me know. Julie was a level one grad at 5 months old and knows the commands when not distracted--but just this week after her trip to the Petco groomer--she literally jumped into the arms of a strange man! Good thing he weighed about 300 pounds--I in turn pulled a muscle in my shoulder trying to hang on to her! Glad the man had a sense of humor! All he said was "well--hello there" 

She of course is younger, so folks give her more leeway--but no way can she be doing this when she is full grown. 

I do know the trainer said, obeying commands without distractions is one thing--they have to be able to do it with lots of activity around them--AND the key is to stop the excitement before it gets out of hand BUT --that is sometimes a HUGE is not impossible task. 

I guess you could practice 'down' at Petco or something on a busy Saturday? 

Again--when you figure it out let me know!


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## jeffreyzone (Feb 8, 2006)

That's a good idea for a business...Doggie House Manners 101! I was sitting here thinking about what that would involve, and I realized that I was basically repackaging the commands that were taught in other classes. Still, you have a different context in your house; for example, it's not quite the same as approaching a stranger on the sidewalk.

We've had to deal with this for years, as Dottie and Barrington are convinced that anyone who comes to our house is coming to visit them. We realized that if we could just get past the initial 45 seconds of mayhem that ensues when the dogs greet the visitor, we'd be OK.

For Brandy, perhaps you could use a combination of commands that she already knows. You could have a neighbor help you out by coming over and visiting at predetermined times, and you could be ready.

But how? Well, we string together a few well-established commands. First, we put the dogs on a "blibe" in a designated place well away from the door, but with a clear line of sight to the door. In our loose interpretation of the command, _blibe _means simply "Do not cross," as in, "Stay behind this threshold." 

Then, we greet the guest and welcome him or her inside. If either dog barks, we issue the "No bark" command. The guest inevitably sees the dogs and starts talking to them, and at that point, I ask the guest to walk over and say Hi to the dogs. The guest approaches, and as he or she extends a hand, I release the dogs. For some reason, their reaction is much less crazy than when they are allowed to rush the door. 

It has taken us years to get this right. And both dogs would still gladly rush the door if we allowed them to do so. Goldens are such social critters.

Good luck, and please keep us posted.


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

We don't have any friends, family or neighbors here who can help with this. I was hoping to get a jump start on the problem before we moved but it sounds like a longer process than I anticipated. 

The nearest Petco (actually a Petsmart) is 45 minutes away. The only other dog-friendly place around here is the training facility where all the dogs are allowed to run free and go a little haywire before class.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

geonova said:


> Have friends come over and coach them ahead of time and tell them that when they come in the door and the dog is about to jump on them, to stick their knee out so the dog will bounce off them.....when the dog falls back, you can be there to quickly grab ahold and keep her lying down with a firm "no"...followed by a sit/stay for several minutes until the dog calms down. That will help to teacher that jumping up is bad and is associated with a knee in the chest!


This is exactly what the author of Marley & Me did, so this was my first thought.... Real life training like this would be best, in my opinion...


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## jeffreyzone (Feb 8, 2006)

I know that I left some large gaps in my description of what we do. The big question: "What do you do when the dogs blow off your _blibe _and come running up to the guest?"

Well, in that case, everyone turns their backs to the dogs and ignores them, and then I take them back to their waiting place. Then, we commence the greetings again. *BUT*: If the dogs are blowing off the _blibe_, I have a much bigger problem than orchestrating a guest greeting; my dogs have not learned self-control. If they were to continue to disregard the protocol, they'd be taken to a different room without any positive feedback from the guest. And they'd stay there, behind a door, till the guest leaves. Then, we'd go about working on that _blibe_.

"What if the dog keeps barking, even after I've said 'No bark?'" Well, this means that the "No bark" command isn't established. In that case, it would make things uncomfortable, but yelling at the dog isn't the answer. I'd take the dog to another room and close the door, telling her that nobody likes a barky dog, period. The dog should never get what she wants by blowing off commands.

The ideas about practicing various commands in distracting situations like Pet Smart is great. I am surprised that Brandy's agility experience with you hasn't yielded better results. Maybe she needs training experience in even more distracting environments!


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## Gldiebr (Oct 10, 2006)

Bailey does best at the door when we give her a positive command, such as 'sit', so she knows what's expected of her. She's still a handful, but is doing better as she matures. Of course, she's now 70 pounds, so she'd better be improving! When my 82 year old mom visits, I keep her on a leash until my mom is sitting, then have her sit at her side and say hello. 

When I did daycare, and Sandy was jumping, I had the parents immediately greet her at her level, then move on. It worked great (no ruined business clothes), but I've since read that it's a bad thing to let the dog think that visitors are there to see them. In reality, Sandy won over most of my clients during the interview, so technically, they WERE there because of her. 

Good luck!


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

Well, I'm not hearing anyone saying I should take her back to obedience training. I like your ideas about setting boundaries. 

Would you suggest breaking the behaviors into stages? For instance, learning to sit when the doorbell rings. Then learning the blibe. Etc. Etc.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Brandy's Mom said:


> Well, I'm not hearing anyone saying I should take her back to obedience training.


Well, you said she's already been to training right? So in theory, she knows it... It's all about real life practice now, in my opinion. I don't see why you should waste the money to have her learn stuff she already knows.


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

I agree, Rick. I didn't know if the reinforcement of a class might be warranted.


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## jeffreyzone (Feb 8, 2006)

Brandy's Mom said:


> Would you suggest breaking the behaviors into stages? For instance, learning to sit when the doorbell rings. Then learning the blibe. Etc. Etc.


Absolutely. That's how we've seen success with our two. Decide how you want the whole scene to unfold, and then script it. It's YOUR scene! Then, break out each piece. If she learns to sit/stay when the doorbell rings, you've made a huge leap forward. She's already on a stay, so she needs to hold that stay till you release her, period. 

You could start with the doorbell ringing; when that happens, take her to her stay place and tell her to sit. Wait a few seconds and then release her with lots of praise. That would be the end of the exercise, because nobody would be at the door...just have someone ring the bell for you at first. Then, step it through to the point where you are greeting someone and welcoming them into your house. 

And remember, sometimes, the dogs are not allowed to greet the guest. For example, if some kid comes to my door selling something, the dogs maintain the _blibe _while I buy the stuff. Or, when any kind of workman comes into our house, the dogs are asked to maintain the _blibe_.

This is a lot of effort, but it will pay off. We never dreamed that we'd be at a point where guests comment on how well-behaved our dogs are. It's almost like a big joke!


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

That is a great idea Brandy's Mom--I like the stages idea. 

If you can get them to sit when the doorbell rings you can block the jumping (access to the visitor) with your body language by stepping in front of them and make them sit again when the guest comes in...when you do get near civilization--:0 then you can take them out of public places like Petco etc. 

Just make sure your attention is on her constantly--

My problem at Petco this week was I stopped to talk to the Greyhound rescue people and Julie saw a cool looking guy (to a dog I guess)...oh the joys of puppies! She must have jumped 5 feet out and 6 feet straight up to pull off landing in his arms! Good thing he caught her! All from a sit/down/stay!~


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## jeffreyzone (Feb 8, 2006)

One thing that really helps us is putting the dogs on the _blibe _at a good distance from the front door. In our case, they are behind the threshold of the kitchen doorway, which has a direct line of sight across the foyer to the front door. It seems like the distance helps calm them.

So, it's never a question of blocking them with my body; they are 15 feet away on a _blibe_. I don't ask them to sit, but to simply stay behind the threshold line. So, this is not anything near a true _blibe_, which generally means something like "Down, Stay, Do-Not-Move-A-Whisker."


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

njb said:


> She must have jumped 5 feet out and 6 feet straight up to pull off landing in his arms! Good thing he caught her! All from a sit/down/stay!~


Hence my comparison of Brandy to a pogo stick. She's still an adolescent and doesn't realize she's 65 pounds not 35!


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

jeffreyzone said:


> One thing that really helps us is putting the dogs on the _blibe _at a good distance from the front door. In our case, they are behind the threshold of the kitchen doorway, which has a direct line of sight across the foyer to the front door. It seems like the distance helps calm them.


I love this as a starting point! Next question. Our other two dogs bark initially but are otherwise polite around visitors. (Of course, they're both 8 years old which helps.)

Obviously, I can't manage 3 at once and answer the door. Do I work on Brandy first? Or do I try to train all 3 at once to sit in a specific spot?


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## jeffreyzone (Feb 8, 2006)

Brandy's Mom said:


> Obviously, I can't manage 3 at once and answer the door. Do I work on Brandy first? Or do I try to train all 3 at once to sit in a specific spot?


I guess it depends on the dynamics among the three dogs. For us, we had to work with both of them at the same time, because excluding one would have been like punishment. But if one of them had been blowing us off while the other was cooperating, the disagreeable dog would have been removed from the training opportunity and placed behind a closed door. Fortunately, that didn't happen.

Do your three respond reliably to the same commands? If so, it may be best to try working with all of them as a group at first. They learn from each other, and you can command their attention with extra-yummy treats at first. If you make it fun for them, they'll catch on quickly.

As you progress, the reward can be when the guest comes to say Hi to them (instead of a food treat). You'll need to try this with a full-on dog person, of course.  And as someone mentioned earlier, if you have elderly people or small children coming over, you can reward the dogs with praise and perhaps a nice treat for maintaining the _blibe_. For some guests, a Golden greeting is just too much!

After those kid-at-the-door events, I usually release my two when the kid is gone and the doors are closed, and we kinda go crazy for a minute or two as I tell them how good they are. It's all a game, really.


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## jeffreyzone (Feb 8, 2006)

Brandy's Mom said:


> Obviously, I can't manage 3 at once and answer the door. Do I work on Brandy first? Or do I try to train all 3 at once to sit in a specific spot?


I reread your question. I think you should try to work with all three for sure. The key is, work with them on the sit/stay in a designated place. Do this without actual visitors arriving. Once you establish that they all go and sit in that place when the doorbell rings, you can proceed to the next step.

That way, you won't be trying to manage all three dogs and answer the door; they'll be sitting quietly in anticipation of the next step. And your guests will say that you are all genuises!


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## LaurJen (Aug 10, 2006)

jeffreyzone said:


> One thing that really helps us is putting the dogs on the _blibe _at a good distance from the front door.


This is all really great information! Thank you for sharing


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

All things being equal--it is easier to train a very well exercised Golden. 

Part of my bouncy girls problem is that I have not been walking her as much because of her limping thing. Vet says it is a growing thing and she will out grow it--but I still think it is weird. It freaks me out--people stop me on the street to ask if she hurt herself...

I am actually so paranoid that I changed vets over it....lol. (and the fact that I can't get out of the vet for less that 200 bucks-for a healthy dog--spent over 3500 bucks in 6 months on a 'healthy' dog) Does anyone else pay $77.50 for a bath and nail trim? 

So--considering I have been keeping her closer than usual--she is extra excited to get out and around people. 

Really the key is exposure--there is a term in psychology called 'habituation' --pretty much meaning if you live near a airport after a while the sound of the planes don't bother you as much, you tune them out. 

When you get back to civilization again, no matter how exhausting, just keep exposing them both to lots of activity, and keep a pocket full of those freeze dried liver treats (my trainer calls them "dog crack" )--

I am not trainer for sure--but I think the first issue you have to deal with the excitement to see a new person before you can train them to stay back behind a line. We want our Goldens to be the social creatures they are, we just want them well mannered.


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## jeffreyzone (Feb 8, 2006)

njb said:


> I am not trainer for sure--but I think the first issue you have to deal with the excitement to see a new person before you can train them to stay back behind a line. We want our Goldens to be the social creatures they are, we just want them well mannered.


Exactly. We need to teach our dogs self-control, and this is the key to everything. Staying behind the line and waiting calmly for the guest to approach can only be achieved with a dog who can control his or her excitement.

The interesting part of this is that once the guest greets the dogs (which gains a simultaneous _blibe _release for them from me), the dogs are significantly less crazed in their greeting, and then they go about the usual business of grabbing Nylabones and settling down in the room where the people are.


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## Baileysmom (Aug 5, 2006)

Interesting that the word "Blibe" is german for stay! I agree with jefferyzone, it is a great training tactic and one used by Ceasar himself! Not with the word though, just his funny noise!


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

Thanks to everyone for your advice and insights! I really really appreciate your taking the time to help. I've decided to start the training with their daddy's homecoming tonight. They'll be excited but not as nutso as they are with complete strangers.


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## jeffreyzone (Feb 8, 2006)

Good luck! Please keep us posted!


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

Had an unexpected visit from a family of 3 yesterday, all dog lovers. I put Brandy on leash and let them in. (No way I could corral her into a sit position so this was a starting point.) 

After a couple of minutes, Brandy wasn't jumping around like a maniac so I removed her leash. She was never still, dancing around the visitors, sitting on their feet, and rough housing with Jenna, but I was thrilled that she didn't jump on anyone or knock anyone over.


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

Congratulations--that is progress!


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## jeffreyzone (Feb 8, 2006)

Brandy's Mom said:


> Had an unexpected visit from a family of 3 yesterday, all dog lovers. I put Brandy on leash and let them in. (No way I could corral her into a sit position so this was a starting point.)
> 
> After a couple of minutes, Brandy wasn't jumping around like a maniac so I removed her leash. She was never still, dancing around the visitors, sitting on their feet, and rough housing with Jenna, but I was thrilled that she didn't jump on anyone or knock anyone over.


Way to go! By taking control of the situation, you received a desirable outcome. This was a terrific first step!


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