# Recall problem



## Lise123 (Jan 1, 2014)

My dog Bailey (2.5 years old) spends every other weekend in a cabin on eight acres of land. From the time I got him, we have spent hours on our recall, because I wanted him to be able to wander around the woods with me without fear of losing him. He's progressed to the point where he can be chasing a deer and will still break off and come back to me when I call him.

Sounds ideal, right?

We have neighbors on one side who have decided to throw food waste outside next to their house (the place varies, so I'm not sure if they're composting or feeding the deer or ???). They toss potato chips, rotten eggs, potatoes, you name it. And when Bailey sniffs it, he's over there like a shot, and he will NOT come back unless I crawl through the bushes to get him and snap on his leash.

We tried going back to the long lead again, and he gets it... after hauling him back once or twice, he becomes perfectly compliant. For days. And then I unhook him, and he's off.

My husband wants to train him on an e-collar or an electric fence, but I don't want to do that if I don't have to. I have no experience with either method, and I don't want to do it wrong and make it worse. I feel like there's something I'm missing to train this out of him. Part of the joy of having a place where we can romp through the woods together is knowing that I can rely on him to come back, so I've got to get this figured out.

Talking to the neighbors and asking them not to throw food outside is not an option, unfortunately. It's a rural area, and people are set in their ways.

Any ideas? Other than hoping they move?


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## Lise123 (Jan 1, 2014)

Here he is in his first year of cruising the fields. If it had a pond, it would be golden retriever heaven. He lives for these visits.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I would install a 6 foot high fence along the property line between the houses; probably chain link. Possibly along the back as well. If Bailey can run around from the front yard, a lower and more attractive fence there.

I have bad neighbors on one side and installed attractive 6 foot high PVC privacy fencing a few feet in from the property line with 4 foot high ornamental aluminum fencing within my yard going from the privacy fencing to the top of the driveway and backyard access staircase that is by the house, effectively opening the view to the back yard (no fencing along any other property borders but it is not needed) with gating for vehicular access to the back garage & driveway.

I have sadly come to the conclusion that fences do indeed solve many issues with bad or weird neighbors. Expensive for sure, but the peace of mind is worth it when it comes to our dogs safety & well being. Blocks unsightly views to some extent too 

ETA: And, the coyotes and whatever other wildlife they are attracting might also go around your property instead of through it


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I use both e-collar and invisible fence.

Food waste on the ground is an incredible draw. It's smelly because it is starting to decompose. Dogs are natural scavengers.

So here's my take on using either device in this situation, it might work at times and it might not. Both my invisible fence and e-collars have varying degrees of intensity of nic and they also make a sound. There are situations that dogs will resist to the highest levels of correction and do what they want. Especially when smelly rotten food is around. So will your collar work on your dog, probably not reliably. Your dog is 2.5 yrs old. The collars would be a new correction for him. I don't think you will overcome 2.5 years of stealing rotten food with those collars. You could try, but you might be disappointed. The good news is, your dog has a great recall under most situations, so you are ahead of the curve. Adding the collar and an additional reinforcement of a command may very well work. 

So that being said, think of the e-collar as a reinforcement of a command like here or come. Which means you would have to be watching all the time and catching him at the moment he goes next door. That would be hard to do, but you could do that. You could adjust th eleven of nic at the transmitter in your hand to coordinate with the level of reinforcement needed. With an invisible fence you can't do that. The adjustment of nic is in the collar itself. So if you need to increase the nic, you have to have the collar in your hand.

I hope that helps, let me know if you have more questions, I have a fair bit of experience with both devices.


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## Lise123 (Jan 1, 2014)

Alaska7133 said:


> I use both e-collar and invisible fence.
> 
> So that being said, think of the e-collar as a reinforcement of a command like here or come. Which means you would have to be watching all the time and catching him at the moment he goes next door. That would be hard to do, but you could do that. You could adjust th eleven of nic at the transmitter in your hand to coordinate with the level of reinforcement needed. With an invisible fence you can't do that. The adjustment of nic is in the collar itself. So if you need to increase the nic, you have to have the collar in your hand.
> 
> I hope that helps, let me know if you have more questions, I have a fair bit of experience with both devices.


Luckily for me, the food just started last fall. So we're only looking at undoing six months of bad behavior. 

When he heads over there, he is always outside with me or my husband. (We don't allow him outside without one of us to supervise.) It would be easy to catch him as he takes off. With an ecollar, do I call him back, wait for him to blow me off, and then use the button? Or do I press the button immediately as he takes off as a deterrent?

Like most goldens, he's a smart, trainable guy. He just has a very big weakness for garbage. I tried upping my recall treats to the most stupendous things I could think of, but it didn't help.


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## Lise123 (Jan 1, 2014)

Sunrise said:


> ETA: And, the coyotes and whatever other wildlife they are attracting might also go around your property instead of through it


You wouldn't believe the number of coyotes up there. I've learned to trust Bailey when he doesn't want to go out for the last potty trip of the night. We have a pack in the area, and my smarty-pants (albeit garbage-eating) dog is savvy about avoiding them!

My other, kinder neighbor has two large dogs, and for a while, I thought he wasn't picking up after them when they pooped on my property. Nope. Coyotes all the way.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I wouldn't try competing with the cwap the neighbors are dropping on their property. 

I agree with the fence idea from Sharon... but otherwise, I would keep your dog on leash anywhere near that area that he can smell the food junk. You would also be working on border training on leash. And just give some thought as far as a "border" that your dog is not allowed to cross on that side of the property. You can build up brush along that side, for example. And generally it will take a few months or a year but your dog will both grow up a little and also learn not to cross a line. 

Since you have a few acres - I'd walk your dog on leash away from the neighbors and give him offleash playtime - where he learns he can be off leash as long as he stays close to you. 

It DOES mean you can't just let your dog out the door and let him run around while you are inside the house. You will have to go out there to keep an eye on him. 

I don't think ecollars are absolutely necessary for things like this. I'd rather put months of work into border training my dog with a leash and collar as opposed to zapping him even once.


***I'd check to see if there are fines, btw, for feeding wildlife.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

The electronic collar may be the only viable solution you have if the neighbors are putting out food waste. You have two training issues to address. Recall when he's off lead and teaching him the garbage pile is dangerous and off limits.


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## Lise123 (Jan 1, 2014)

Megora said:


> I agree with the fence idea from Sharon... but otherwise, I would keep your dog on leash anywhere near that area that he can smell the food junk. You would also be working on border training on leash. And just give some thought as far as a "border" that your dog is not allowed to cross on that side of the property. You can build up brush along that side, for example. And generally it will take a few months or a year but your dog will both grow up a little and also learn not to cross a line.
> 
> Since you have a few acres - I'd walk your dog on leash away from the neighbors and give him offleash playtime - where he learns he can be off leash as long as he stays close to you.
> 
> ...


Thanks for more good ideas. Right now, we have a four-foot rock wall between the properties, as well as thick juniper bushes. They don't pose much problem to Bailey as he runs over there, but it definitely makes it harder for me to get him back. 

I love the idea of border training. I don't think it would be effective immediately, but with the stone wall already in place, we could work on it. Bailey loves to train, so over time, this could be a great option for us.

At the moment, we take him to a different, heavily wooded part of the property so he can run around and play, but it was so nice last summer when the entire family could be out playing in the front part of the yard together. He loves ambling around and checking out places under the trees, chasing turkeys, etc., and that freedom is currently gone. 

He's never allowed outside alone. I can't imagine doing that. He would be lonely, and I can't even imagine the trouble he would get into. 

Thanks to everyone for the great ideas!


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## Harleysmum (Aug 19, 2014)

Any chance you could discuss the issue with the neighbours?


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I think if you can't fence physically, the invisible fence is the way to go. The e-collar would require watching him and hitting the button at the right moment. Invisible fence will make the correction whenever he goes too far.

There are 2 types of invisible fences, wired and wireless. I've had both. The wired kind is very defined, you could put it on the property line or wherever you want. If you have a paved driveway to cross, you would have to cut the paving and put the wire in the cut, then seal the cut with driveway caulk. The wireless works with a beacon and a radius from that point. So it's more circular. I'd buy whichever method works best with your property.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Lise123 said:


> I love the idea of border training. I don't think it would be effective immediately, but with the stone wall already in place, we could work on it. Bailey loves to train, so over time, this could be a great option for us.


I thought of something else that probably was helpful to add....

My mom got into the habit of pouring grease outside - because it can't go down into the septic field. She puts it in the same areas each time and usually the critters out there eat the crud and it's cleared up. 

She used to let the grease sit and gel and hang it up for the birds, but I gather she found it cuts to the chase as far just tossing it over the deck railing because the birds will find it anyway. 

My dogs are trained to leave it. If they were outside by themselves - they probably would go right to the spot to check the grease out and nom. But if I'm out there and I see them poking their noses in that direction - it just takes three words "no, leave it" and they obey. 

It's just like with the border training. Takes time and does take commitment to training and following through, but the dogs learn. Unless they are truly out of control.


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## Lise123 (Jan 1, 2014)

Megora said:


> I thought of something else that probably was helpful to add....
> 
> My mom got into the habit of pouring grease outside - because it can't go down into the septic field. She puts it in the same areas each time and usually the critters out there eat the crud and it's cleared up.
> 
> ...


That explains why they toss grease over their porch -- we are all on septic up there. (Still not sure why they leave out old food, unless they are purposely feeding coyotes -- I can't imagine another animal wanting rotten eggs and old potatoes. Except my dog.)

Thanks to everyone for their helpful ideas. We have started border training, which Bailey loves, but we will also look into an electric fence. I'm going to try spraying the food with bitter apple when I retrieve him, too. We've had some success with bitter apple reinforcing the "leave it" command.

Harleysmum, I am too embarrassed to ask the neighbors to stop. It's their right to throw food trash on their property, and it's my responsibility to keep Bailey away.

Funny story: this fall, another neighbor of ours up there was draining a deer. Bailey caught wind of it and was off like a madman. I couldn't see what he was driving for, but he's not allowed to cross the property line, and I called him back. He came, I snapped his leash on, and we went into the house. It was only later that I saw the deer. Thank heavens he came back! If he had mauled it, how in the world could I have replaced that??


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## Lise123 (Jan 1, 2014)

*Update on Recalling Bailey*

UPDATE

Bailey spent a great holiday weekend swimming, hiking, and running through the woods. He didn't try to visit the neighbors, so by Monday, I relaxed my vigilance and allowed Bailey to sit with me on the outdoor deck. And he took off for the neighbors' house.

Before I could even get up to follow, I heard a loud barking from the neighbors. They had a dog visiting for the weekend, and he was telling off Bailey for coming over. My dog sprinted back to me so fast you would have thought his tail was on fire!

He didn't try going back again.

I will continue to work with him on border training, which he adores, and generally just keep him in the woods and in the lake when we're up there, but I really hope my neighbor's friend with the dog visits a lot this summer.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> My dog sprinted back to me so fast you would have thought his tail was on fire!
> 
> He didn't try going back again.



LOL - gotta love when nature lends a hand.


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