# Offended! (Border Collie Blues)



## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I went to watch my sister's prenovice agility class. (Tango is taking puppy fundamentals agility class at a different place, so i was curious.) The instructor started class by saying that she admitted a prejudice for Border Collies and that she didn't think "BARBIE dogs like Golden Retrievers" were "worth much" in upper level agility! I guess she never met a Morninglo golden! Meanwhile, my sister's golden went through all the tunnels, first time, while the border collie wouldn't quit the tug-of-war games. HA! I was SO offended. I know Border Collies are amazing, bright dogs, but my sister's golden is a driven dog whose parents are OTCH (mom) and U-UD;MH(dad)- he is definitely a high prey drive dog with working chops- not the dumb blonde the instructor expects. My poor sis felt kind of uncomfortable.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Aahhhh, Tango may teach her a lesson. Sometimes all we need to do is, wait. Waiting sure it the hard part of everything.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Thanks, Kimm. I am used to people in obedience class adoring goldens, so I was kind of caught off guard by this different view in agility. The instructor tried to make up for her comment by saying there are Barbie border collies too. It was funny- and you are right. The thing to do is quietly do a good job and let the goldens prove themselves.Still, I wishOTCH U-UD Morninglo Fire in the Sky UDX4 MH NA NAJ WCX VCX OS or a great golden like that would suddenly appear in Maine and show the group that goldens CAN do agility.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> Thanks, Kimm. I am used to people in obedience class adoring goldens, so I was kind of caught off guard by this different view in agility. The instructor tried to make up for her comment by saying there are Barbie border collies too. It was funny- and you are right. The thing to do is quietly do a good job and let the goldens prove themselves.Still, I wishOTCH U-UD Morninglo Fire in the Sky UDX4 MH NA NAJ WCX VCX OS or a great golden like that would suddenly appear in Maine and show the group that goldens CAN do agility.


This will be a passive aggressive statement coming from me. :uhoh: 

You could get a T-shirt made with I wanna be just like OTCH U-UD Morninglo Fire in the Sky....omg too much to copy...on it !


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

it is too early in the morning for passive aggression. It is like admiring a triple crown winning race horse or an olympic swimmer. I am not ahamed to admire the great dogs, and at the same time love my sweet regular dogs.


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

Wait... am I to understand the teacher said this to her students (even potential ones)? I'm surprised... wouldn't be good for business!


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## Bogart'sMom (Sep 16, 2005)

I'm used to these kind of statements from my instructor also. I train with an all breed rescue group and we have been training there since Bogart was 11 weeks old and still take classes there. But the main instructor loves her pitbulls and I have to say they are all 3 awesome dogs. She told me before that her old pitbull didn't get an award because he was a pit and a golden with the same points got an award because it was a golden, nothing I can do about I beleave it too. But my little guy is doing really well in Rally and she tell me Not bad for a "Golden" LOL. She is also our agilty instructor and Bogart also has lots of focus the thing I don't like is having him jump too high so I keep his jump hight low. She teases me about it like he is a prissy but we tease eachother so I take it in fun and when my golden has a 96 in a Rally trial and her Pit an 86, hehehe I tease her LOL. 
I have an Australian cattle dog also and I take one of them anyday over a hyperactive Border.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I love them all. We had a student whose parents raised Australian Cattle Dogs. Another has Catahoulas (sp). They seem to be very hard workers and smart dogs.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

That's terrible. Was that her first class with that instructor? I would have marched up to that lady told her she had offended a PAYING student.

I like the shirt idea.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Yes, it was her first agility class ever. It definitely wasn't the nicest way to be greeted by the teacher. She has a good sense of humor though, so she'll probably hang in there; she called her pup "Barbie" instead of Banyan a couple times yesterday.


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## Celeigh (Nov 29, 2007)

How was she able to teach the rest of the class with her big 'ol foot in her mouth?! That is so rude especially considering there was a golden in the class! Grrrr (that growl was from Fergus - he can't stand injustice). 

Sounds like your sister's golden showed her!


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## Sivin (Nov 23, 2006)

So who is this instructor? Should we all, uh, spam her? Hmm...sounds good to me!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

She must just not like goldens for some reason, but my sister was definitely flustered. The class has nine dogs, and Banyan is the only golden and also the only youngster. There is also only one Border Collie.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I remember reading that many other breed enthusiasts do not give Golden Retrievers enough credit because of their beauty. That is where the term "swamp collie" came from.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> Yes, it was her first agility class ever. It definitely wasn't the nicest way to be greeted by the teacher. She has a good sense of humor though, so she'll probably hang in there; she called her pup "Barbie" instead of Banyan a couple times yesterday.


 
She should make sure she's right next to the instructor after Banyan finishes a good run and say "GOOD JOB BARBIE!" I think that's what you call passive aggressive right?


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## GoldenSmile (Apr 10, 2008)

You can also have your dog come into class with a Ken Doll in her jaws.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Golden retrievers Barbie Doll dogs?? LOL ... I don't see it :no: The instructor should see my golden at the lake when she's fishing. Granted, a little different style of agility but nothing Barbie Doll about it! She obviously has not seen the full spectrum of golden retrievers!

:wave:


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

mylissyk said:


> She should make sure she's right next to the instructor after Banyan finishes a good run and say "GOOD JOB BARBIE!" I think that's what you call passive aggressive right?


Yesssssssssssssssss...lol Goldensmiles response, too!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I have a shirt that says "Where the $#!$% did all these fast Goldens come from?" We wear it when we're out BEATING Border Collies in agility!

Yeah, a lot of people are used to the "pretty" Goldens who aren't drivey, flashy and fast. I have to admit... there are some that even I call Malibu Barbie Goldens... the ones that are BEAUTIFUL to look at, but not much for sporting events. I personally prefer the sports car version, myself!

You'll show 'um!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> I have a shirt that says "Where the $#!$% did all these fast Goldens come from?" We wear it when we're out BEATING Border Collies in agility!
> 
> Yeah, a lot of people are used to the "pretty" Goldens who aren't drivey, flashy and fast. I have to admit... there are some that even I call Malibu Barbie Goldens... the ones that are BEAUTIFUL to look at, but not much for sporting events. I personally prefer the sports car version, myself!
> 
> You'll show 'um!


Cool shirt. I wish you could come to class wearing it! Are barbie border collies too? There must be a show side of border collies as opposed to the herding ones?


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

_She should make sure she's right next to the instructor after Banyan finishes a good run and say "GOOD JOB BARBIE!" I think that's what you call passive aggressive right?_

Nice one.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> Cool shirt. I wish you could come to class wearing it! Are barbie border collies too? There must be a show side of border collies as opposed to the herding ones?


Border Collies were not even AKC recognized until very recently. There was no standard to be bred by until they actually went to be AKC recognized. That is why they vary so much in looks. I believe a lot of the hard core Border Collie enthusiasts were against this recognition.


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## katieanddusty (Feb 9, 2006)

Who was this? It's one thing to prefer BCs for her own dogs, but it's really unprofessional to insult a student's dog like that. There are definitely some Goldens that I wouldn't consider as agility dogs, but the instructor should still know how to help the handlers get as much speed/enthusiasm as possible. With the right training and conditioning Goldens can do pretty well (and a few of them are just as fast as the Border Collies - like Quiz! ).


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

katieanddusty said:


> Who was this? It's one thing to prefer BCs for her own dogs, but it's really unprofessional to insult a student's dog like that. There are definitely some Goldens that I wouldn't consider as agility dogs, but the instructor should still know how to help the handlers get as much speed/enthusiasm as possible. With the right training and conditioning Goldens can do pretty well (and a few of them are just as fast as the Border Collies - like Quiz! ).


And this is just a foundation/prenovice class. I do admit that one of my three goldens IS a Barbie Golden who is never going to do agility(he snuggles for a living). But Banyan is from high caliber working atheltes and has drive and focus. It made the atmosphere of the class awkward for my sister.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Ljilly28 said:


> Cool shirt. I wish you could come to class wearing it! Are barbie border collies too? There must be a show side of border collies as opposed to the herding ones?


Oh yes, there are definitely Barbie Collies! In fact, I've always called the "pretty" (conformation) BCs "Barbie Collies" and the heavy conformation Goldens "Malibu Barbie Goldens". I've seen Barbie Collies that are afraid of the sheep!

I frequently wear my Fast Golden shirt at agility trials! It's good for a lot of laughs!

-S


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

BTW - you can get the fast Golden shirt here: http://www.beautyofthebeast.com. They have LOTS of fun agility shirts!


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## Heidi36oh (Feb 27, 2007)

Get you one of them shirts and go out there and show them, that's pretty sorry the trainer said that. I'd show her.


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## maiapup (Nov 22, 2007)

I remember being taken aback by similar comments (in my case, the instructor just lumped 'herding' dogs together) but then I realized that must be how people in obedience think about Goldens, so I figured we were even. : ) I know many high level Golden Retriever obedience competitors that have alienated other breed folks with their 'in your face' Goldens are better than XXXXX in obedience. I was unaware of this to be honest, because when I did competition obedience many years back I was the same way, felt we were so superior because we had Goldens and they always blew away the national competitions, etc. I have learned over the years that each breed has a certain something that makes it unique or clever. Terriers for example, I'm not a terrier person period. But when we trained with a Scottie person, I learned to appreciate their tenacity and quite frankly brains! Likewise the Scottie person came to love my Goldens because I wasn't like the other 'competition' Golden people looking down at her Scotties because well....they are terriers. 

I love Golden Retrievers and it is probably the only breed for me, but, I still think that Border Collies do have a better structure for competitive agility than Goldens. There are a lot of MACH + Goldens but truly is (IMHO) a sport owned by the BC, as most of the high level competitions prove time and time again. 

I always say whatever floats your boat. : ) I love my conformation Goldens, they are beautiful, nicely built, great temperaments and easy to live with. The fact that they enjoy agility (as do I) and we fun is what it's all about for us what everyone else thinks or does... I just don't care. : )


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I still think that Border Collies do have a better structure for competitive agility than Goldens. [/QUOTE said:


> What makes the border collie structure better, specifically? I am curious.
> 
> I know that my goldens arent going to herd sheep and the border collies arent going to win the next field trial at West Thompson, but this was just a foundations class for absolute beginners.


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## maiapup (Nov 22, 2007)

They are smaller, lighter boned, lower to the ground and can cover ground move quickly. 

Have you ever watched a Border Collie run either on tv or in person, there really is no comparison even with a fast Golden (IMHO). One of the guys in my Golden club has a field Golden he calls a 'red' Border Collie (of course, I asked why not just get a BC if that's what you wanted but whatever!) : ) and even though it's probably under the Golden breed standard for height, probably only weighs 50 lbs.. and yes, he is fast, his running style is still not a Border Collie style.


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## maiapup (Nov 22, 2007)

One other thing, your sister may need to shop for another training facility if she's going to feel uneasy about the instructor's preferences. We trained with a very well known agility person in my area and his preferences were made well known from the get go about his preference for herding breeds. That said, he was an awesome instructor and his philosophy in training the dogs matched mine, so I just didn't care about his preferences in breeds, his style matched what I wanted for training my dog.

We are lucky, we have several agility training options in my area, including two well known (multiple years) World Team members who run their own training groups but some of the methods they use in training do not match my philosophy, so though they may "appear" to be more supportive of different breeds, I wouldn't take my dogs to their training because of the difference in training styles.

It may just take a while to find the right fit but for me, I don't care what anyone thinks of my breed or dogs. 

Just wanted to point out, though I know you are defending your sister/her dog and the training situation, one of the things you said in an earlier post could have been considered offensive to others, (dumb blonde). So, we all have preferences even within Golden Retrievers and what is right for some may not be right for others, doesn't mean people are wrong for prefering something over another.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

maiapup said:


> They are smaller, lighter boned, lower to the ground and can cover ground move quickly.
> 
> Have you ever watched a Border Collie run either on tv or in person, there really is no comparison even with a fast Golden (IMHO). One of the guys in my Golden club has a field Golden he calls a 'red' Border Collie (of course, I asked why not just get a BC if that's what you wanted but whatever!) : ) and even though it's probably under the Golden breed standard for height, probably only weighs 50 lbs.. and yes, he is fast, his running style is still not a Border Collie style.


Very true. I have a very Border Collie-esque Golden - 21.5" at the withers and 43 lbs soaking vet. He's insanely athletic and super fast, and we do often beat Border Collies in agility, but put them side by side and the styles of moving are quite different.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Sorry to offend you Maiapup! It's kind of ironic to offend someone in a thread about being offended by someone. My seniors are discussing opposing articles about teaching Huck Finn in the modern classroom http://www.fhs.fuhsd.org/~dclarke/AM_LIT_H/READINGS/UNIT_2/finn_smiley_abbr.pdf, and in a larger sense, talking about the difference between what a writer intends to say versus what is heard/understood by the listener/ reader. It was great to be able to use your shout out as a much more simple example- they got a kick out of it since they tend to view are English Department as veering to PC. I was trying to reflect the instructor's stereotype, not perpetuate it myself; that didnt come through to you. And no, I don't judge intelligence by haircolor- canine or human. Again, so sorry I offended you, Maiapup! I will be more careful with my language.


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