# Ethical "English Creme" breeders



## DanaRuns

In the last 24 hours I've been contacted by four different people looking for English Creme/European/white/light Goldens. I referred them to a couple friends who breed light dogs. But I'd like to create a list of ethical breeders all over the country who breed light dogs, or European dogs. You know they're out there. They do the health testing, they compete, they follow the CoE.

So please list any you know of in this thread. We need to be able to verify them. No greeders, mills, or BYBs, please. Just people who breed light colored dogs, both European and American, and who do it the right way. And then I will see what I can do about creating a list that we can refer people to, since this English Cream thing just keeps coming back like herpes.

Will you help?


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## cwag

Halia Golden Retrievers Winter Garden Florida. She's on the forum


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## ArkansasGold

Marissa Hendrix (Arkgold - also breeds "American" style) in Arkansas, Kristy Theimer (Barafields) in Oklahoma, and Marlo Grayson (Grace N Goldens - also has "American" style) in North Texas all breed light dogs with all clearances, adhere to the COE, and compete.


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## Emmdenn

My Way Golden Retrievers, CT
Eastshore Goldens, NH
Stoneledge Golden Retrievers, MA
Quapaw Golden Retrievers, IN (not sure how updated her website is but she is active on FB)
Kyon Kennels (Canada)
Darrowby Goldens, NY (though I can't maneuver their website for the life of me..)
Bandegold Golden Retrievers, MI
Is Trowsnest still breeding???

Thanks for doing this Dana! I think it will be really helpful to steer those members looking for English type goldens in the right direction.


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## Prism Goldens

The problem imo is verifying things- Kathy for instance never sends heart and eye in (Quapaw) and there's one in NC who in the past I used to refer to till I realized she has zero C heart clearances, all hers are P. Plus there is the foreign underaged ortho stuff. There's one here in Ocala who's a MF member but I would never refer to her. 
I hope we can come up w a list- but I fear even our list will have to be researched individual litters at a time, I doubt ANY of them are consistently sending heart/eye in and getting C hearts and doing 24+mo orthos. I hope I am wrong. I really do. Thank you Dana. Good idea!


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## Emmdenn

I agree Robin. W/ regards to breeders who don’t send stuff in (I don’t get it). I went through most (not all) of those breeders in depth at one point, and all of them had the core 4 clearances done appropriately and publicly verifiable. We can only hope they remain consistent. 

There is a website that boasts a long list of English-type breeders in North America who abide by the GRCA, and when I found it and went to vet a few of the breeders, there were a bunch of clearances that I couldn’t find. Of course I’m a novice...but less so than the average puppy buyer, so there’s no way the average puppy buyer would be able to know for sure whether they truly are done.


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## nolefan

Prism Goldens said:


> .... even our list will have to be researched individual litters at a time....


This is a good rule of thumb but is very disheartening. This isn't rocket science (clearance and genetic testing info is out there and readily available) and certainly the volume of puppies being produced means they can afford to get the clearances done. Truly shameful. 

No, I don't believe that Trowsnest is breeding anymore on a regular basis, if at all.


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## Megora

DanaRuns said:


> ethical breeders all over the country who breed light dogs, or European dogs. You know they're out there. They do the health testing, they compete, they follow the CoE.


The awful thing that goes through my brain is every time I check a box on a breeder, thinking that they at least are going about the whole breeding thing the right way....

THERE YOU GO - they are breeding an 18 month old dog who failed elbows or has a questionable history behind him to another dog who has a completely unknown history. :frown2:

That's just dumbing down recommendations to pointing people in the direction of breeders who have bare minimum done clearances on all their breeding dogs. 

Competing - I have no idea what that even means right now when people say they compete. You had another thread where somebody was making a big deal about CGC titles and dock jumping titles - as a way of proving what they breed before they breed. And the one exchange went awry when it was outed that the CGC titles weren't even sent in to AKC so who knows if they are legit. 

But hey - even rally titles which a lot of people are touting as proof that they breed "performance" dogs is "curious" sometimes. I was chatting with my instructor about the last trial I did with my Jovi. When we were going into the ring, there was a golden retriever in Rally Advanced having a VERY VERY VERY VERY to extremes bad day. This was a dog running around the ring, barking at the owner, and showing every sign of being unable to work out there. The judge was being kind in letting the handler finish her run - but dog should have been excused at the first loss of control. This was a dog with a RN title - which a lot of breeders across the board tout as a "my CH dog has brains too" title.  

There's a lot more stuff, but quite honestly there's reasons why it's so difficult to put together a list of breeders who reliably 100% toe the line. So many don't.


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## LJack

Well, I know a gal in AZ that does have European lines with full certifications, but I don’t think I am allowed to name names. ?


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## Prism Goldens

Is that AZ gal Italian bitch owner? 
We need to add you to the list. But I suspect since she's not white you'll stand out like a a sore thumb.


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## Sweet Girl

Along with Kyon, there is also Blackpool (both are in Ontario, Canada). They are light coloured, not sure either would use the term English Cream.


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## DanaRuns

LJack said:


> Well, I know a gal in AZ that does have European lines with full certifications, but I don’t think I am allowed to name names. ?


Fortunately, I already know about that breeder. Even sent someone her way a couple days ago.


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## elisterine

I came across ChrisTi when I was looking for a breeder, but I didn't look at them for too long, because that's not my personal taste in dogs. I haven't gone through anything in great detail, but to my untrained eye, things looked ok!

The breeder is Christi Golden Retrievers.


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## DevWind

Light puppies in Pilot's litter were a surprise at the time. We later found where it came from. I don't know anyone that specifically breeds for lighter color.


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## HaliaGoldens

This is the list I usually refer people to, but I know there are some on here who do not consistently send in clearances ?, so it's important for people to verify each litter and use their own judgement.
Michigan: Brandegold (Jody Brandeberry) Texas: Northern Love (Nancy Porter Gadd) Wisconsin: Cedar Goldens (Tom and Mary Schulz) 
South Carolina: Tanglewood (Joanne Cava) Oklahoma: Barafields Goldens (Kristy Theimer) 
Vermont: Kernow Goldens (Pam Badger) California: Star Crowned Goldens (Karen Webb) 
Massachusetts: Stoneledge Goldens (Louise Guy)
Arizona: Anasazi Goldens (Laura Jack)
New Hampshire: Eastshore Goldens (Wendy Bergeron)
New York: Crosscreek Goldens (Chris Miele)
Canada: Coppermoon Goldens (Shannon Flynn)


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## pawsnpaca

Two more for the New England area:



*BeauGeste* 
In MA, breeds both American and more "European" type dogs. I know her personally (I own one dog she bred, my first dog was sired by one of her dogs); she's a long time breeder, well-respected, many champions, great longevity, lovely temperaments



*JRS *
In MA, only know what's on her website but it looks good. Advertises that she specializes in "English-type Goldens." Due diligence recommended however (re: clearances, etc), as always.


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## Emmdenn

HaliaGoldens said:


> ....so it's important for people to verify each litter and use their own judgement.


Thank you for saying this...a good rule of thumb for any breeder/litter.

Totally forgot to mention Kernow in VT...I am in handling classes w/ her daughter and she's awesome.

And Anasazi in AZ of course.

I have friends who paid far too much for a very poorly bred "English Cream" puppy who has all sorts of issues/things going on. Knowing what they are going through with their boy, and being a member here I think it's important that if people know they prefer English type that we educate and provide them with those breeders who do it right.


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## kwhit

Chance wasn’t a herpes...:crying:


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## Rion05

My friend, Susan, is a very responsible breeder, does clearances, breeds for temperament, shows, trains obedience, and some of her litters have been very light (but she does not only breed light goldens...just has many currently who are very light) - Willo-B-Woods in IL.


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## LJack

Prism Goldens said:


> Is that AZ gal Italian bitch owner?
> We need to add you to the list. But I suspect since she's not white you'll stand out like a a sore thumb.


True I don’t breed for light color or profit. I breed for a better dog. This difference is ultimate reason most “English Cream” breeders are not stellar.


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## HaliaGoldens

LJack said:


> True I don’t breed for light color or profit. I breed for a better dog. This difference is ultimate reason most “English Cream” breeders are not stellar.


What she said.


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## HaliaGoldens

LJack said:


> True I don’t breed for light color or profit. I breed for a better dog. This difference is ultimate reason most “English Cream” breeders are not stellar.


A couple of the stud dogs I’m considering for my girl next year are darker; it will be a very nice litmus test to see if any of the buyers on my list decide they don’t want one based on that. Good riddance if that’s the case!


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## Mary Schaleen

When I was looking, these were on my short list:

Brandegold—Michigan
Darrowby--New York
Desdia--Arizona
Kyon--Canada
Overlook--Connecticut
Stoneledge—Massachusetts. The website says they no longer have females
Tanglewood--South Carolina

Trowsnest was on my list, but I never could find her

I too went through the English Goldens in North America site, but found that some breeders listed there were no longer breeding. It doesn’t seem as though the site has been updated.

I actually thought of putting together a list of reputable breeders of English/cream/light goldens, but Dana beat me to it and will most certainly do a much better job! Thank you Dana.


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## Heidi Wheeler Duckworth

I think that the phrase "Ethical English Creme" is an oxymoron. I am not a breeder, but anyone who "advertises" that they breed "English Cream/Creme" Goldens is breeding for all of the wrong reasons. AVOID, AVOID, AVOID!


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## Brave

Heidi Wheeler Duckworth said:


> I think that the phrase "Ethical English Creme" is an oxymoron. I am not a breeder, but anyone who "advertises" that they breed "English Cream/Creme" Goldens is breeding for all of the wrong reasons. AVOID, AVOID, AVOID!


The "english creme" was in quotes to denote that the layperson may term it "english creme" but that doesn't mean an ethical breeder would term it such. It's SEO (search engine optimization). The goal is to compile a list of ethical, reputable breeders whose stock and pups tends to be lighter gold than is common among the well bred community. So if someone google "english creme golden retrievers" hopefully this thread pops up over all the random BYBs out there.


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## DanaRuns

^^^^ What Brave said.


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## Heidi Wheeler Duckworth

Brave said:


> The "english creme" was in quotes to denote that the layperson may term it "english creme" but that doesn't mean an ethical breeder would term it such. It's SEO (search engine optimization). The goal is to compile a list of ethical, reputable breeders whose stock and pups tends to be lighter gold than is common among the well bred community. So if someone google "english creme golden retrievers" hopefully this thread pops up over all the random BYBs out there.


Thanks for the clarification. I commented erroneously thinking this was a thread started by a lay person. After I posted my comment I realized this thread was meant for different purpose, but didn't know how to (or if it was even possible) erase my comment. My bad. Sorry guys.


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## HaliaGoldens

kwhit said:


> Chance wasn’t a herpes.../images/GoldenretrieverForum_2016/smilies/tango_face_crying.png


❤❤❤ Of course he wasn’t. I think she was referring to the breeders who are using the term English cream to mislead puppy buyers. Every golden, no matter who bred him/her and for what reasons, is a complete love.


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## cwag

kwhit said:


> Chance wasn’t a herpes...:crying:


I think you just mis-took what Dana was saying. She was not referring to light dogs but the deceptive marketing that has created such a demand for something called "English Cream" 
dogs and the proliferation of greedy breeders who care only about profiting from that demand.
Chance was a beautiful Golden Retriever with the best of the Golden temperament and no one is criticizing him or other light dogs.


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## CAROLINA MOM

Heidi Wheeler Duckworth said:


> Thanks for the clarification. I commented erroneously thinking this was a thread started by a lay person. After I posted my comment I realized this thread was meant for different purpose, but didn't know how to (or if it was even possible) erase my comment. My bad. Sorry guys.


_*FYI*_-Members have up to 4 hours from the time they make a post to "edit" the post. You can make any changes to a post you want- remove, add info, or completely remove the post, the entry remains on the board. 

After the 4 hour time frame, _*no*_ changes can be made to a post, they remain on the forum as they are.


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## DanaRuns

kwhit said:


> Chance wasn’t a herpes...:crying:


When I saw this post, I had no idea what it meant or that it was referring to me. I didn't mean it that way _at all_, and I'm sorry if I made it sound insulting. I wasn't referring to the dogs as herpes, I was referring to the threads on this forum as herpes.

What I meant is that we have the same discussion over and over and over ("coming back like herpes"), where people come here, hopeful, asking about a particular "English Cream" breeder, only to have everyone here expose the breeder as unethical, the parents lack clearances, there are lies on their website, etc. LJack then comes in with her charts. Prism then gives them chapter and verse on the parents' deficiencies. Everyone explains that "English cream" is a marketing term for bad and greedy breeders. And the OP goes away dejected, lamenting, "Well, I guess I'll keep looking."

Because this conversation keeps coming back over and over (like herpes), I wanted to see if we could put together a list of ethical breeders of dogs that look like the kind of dog ("English cream") such folks are looking for. I just wanted to do something nice for all these folks, something hopeful, so we don't just dash their dreams and send them away disappointed.

Sorry if I inadvertently seemed to be insulting dogs. I would never.


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## diwolff

*English Cream Breeder*

We got our cream puppy from Recherche Kennels located in Statesville, NC There are excellent


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## Prism Goldens

diwolff said:


> We got our cream puppy from Recherche Kennels located in Statesville, NC There are excellent


unfortunately, Recherche cannot meet the minimum Code of Ethics clearances/methods.


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## LJack

diwolff said:


> We got our cream puppy from Recherche Kennels located in Statesville, NC There are excellent


Unfortunately the lacking health certifications would put this breeders off of the reputable breeder classification. Also blatant misinformation on their website is a disturbing indication of their ethics.


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## Emmdenn

diwolff said:


> We got our cream puppy from Recherche Kennels located in Statesville, NC There are excellent


https://www.goldenretrieverforum.co.../60107-recherche-goldens-near-roanoke-va.html

Here is a thread on that breeder. I have friends with a puppy from them, he's 13 months old now and they have dealt with a good deal of health, temperament and conformational...."stuff" that really boils down to poor breeding.


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## Val King

For sure not Mothers Farm School In Santa Fe, NM...my English from her shows no clearances for mom...falsified or never done??? claims they are with no proof...remember she is the one missing 7 adult lower molars!!! STAY AWAY!...mine is so cute but only 1.5 yrs old so I worry about primary Golden issues to come! I"m guessing BYB


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## nolefan

Apparently they are quite busy at the Recherche puppy farm....

In addition to White Goldens, they are breeding Cavapoos, Cavachons and Bernedoodles.


"Recherche Bernes are professional breeders and trainers of Bernese Mountain Dogs & Bernedoodles. Recherche Bernes is owned by Jamel & Charity Hamka.....
in the ministry to make some extra money, we decided to buy some high-quality American Eskimos and breed them. We did that for a few years as hobby breeders. The amazing thing is that we learned that all the desires of my heart and the gifts that God gave me was perfectly suited to breed and train puppies. God knew that which I didn’t. We eventually moved breeds to a more friendly and trainable breeds including Bernese and Bernedoodles. We wanted a breed that was highly intelligent and loving. We wanted breeds we can trust with our young daughter. "


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## Lincgold

pawsnpaca said:


> Two more for the New England area:
> *BeauGeste*
> In MA, breeds both American and more "European" type dogs. I know her personally (I own one dog she bred, my first dog was sired by one of her dogs); she's a long time breeder, well-respected, many champions, great longevity, lovely temperaments


I too have had two Beau Geste dogs, Daisy and currently Bear, the grandson of her Pollux. Good people.


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## Lincgold

My Bear, 15 mos, is the son of Colin from Eastshore Goldens in NH.


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## SRW

If having a white dog was my a priority, I would not get a golden retriever.


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## Lincgold

SRW said:


> If having a white dog was my a priority, I would not get a golden retriever.


Bear’s mom was “golden” colored who came from Beau Geste’s Pollux who was also “golden” colored. His dad was Colin from Eastshore who happened to be “cream” colored. Of the 8 puppies in the litter, about half were “golden” and half “cream” colored. Bear resembles his dad, Colin. I did not request a lighter colored pup. I would have been happy with either. This is our first “cream” colored pup and he is a great dog. He’s smart, loving, well-mannered and goofy...everything a Golden should be.


Bear at about 6 weeks
Lincoln with Bear


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## SRW

Lincgold said:


> Bear’s mom was “golden” colored who came from Beau Geste’s Pollux who was also “golden” colored. His dad was Colin from Eastshore who happened to be “cream” colored. Of the 8 puppies in the litter, about half were “golden” and half “cream” colored. Bear resembles his dad, Colin. I did not request a lighter colored pup. I would have been happy with either. This is our first “cream” colored pup and he is a great dog. He’s smart, loving, well-mannered and goofy...everything a Golden should be.
> 
> 
> Bear at about 6 weeks
> Lincoln with Bear


 I'm sure he is a fine dog.
My point, breeding for color is usually for money, not for the betterment of the breed.


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## diane0905

Lincgold said:


> Bear’s mom was “golden” colored who came from Beau Geste’s Pollux who was also “golden” colored. His dad was Colin from Eastshore who happened to be “cream” colored. Of the 8 puppies in the litter, about half were “golden” and half “cream” colored. Bear resembles his dad, Colin. I did not request a lighter colored pup. I would have been happy with either. This is our first “cream” colored pup and he is a great dog. He’s smart, loving, well-mannered and goofy...everything a Golden should be.
> 
> 
> Bear at about 6 weeks
> Lincoln with Bear


I think Bear is gorgeous. Lincoln was too.


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## Andythom

SRW said:


> I'm sure he is a fine dog.
> My point, breeding for color is usually for money, not for the betterment of the breed.


That's the whole point of this thread- to point people in the direction of breeders who are not simply breeding for color, but for health/temperament/etc. that happen to focus on lighter colored GRs.


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## mzilke

could you please give us and example of why we should look for and English cream breeder. thanks


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## pawsnpaca

mzilke said:


> could you please give us and example of why we should look for and English cream breeder. thanks


Actually, most of us would say you should NOT look for an "English cream breeder." LOL! This forum is full of threads where we try to educate uninformed buyers about the fact that there is really no such thing, that they are NOT longer lived or less prone to cancer, that breeders using that term aren't generally "good" breeders, etc., etc.

That said, there are many people who just like the look of the super light Golden Retriever, or who find the somewhat heavier body style of what I think of as "European-style" more appealing. Everyone is entitled to their own preference... Liking the light blond golden is every bit as legit a preference as liking any other shade of Gold. 

The problem comes in that the breeders who breed with color as the goal, or who try to capitalize on the current fad of lighter colored ("English Cream") Goldens are almost always NOT responsible, reputable breeders who are breeding according to the GRCA Code of Ethics ("COE"). This thread is an attempt to provide the novice puppy buyer who might prefer light-colored dogs with a list of reputable breeders who just happen to produce (always or sometimes) dogs with lighter coats.


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## Laura Way

There are many wonderful ethical English/European style golden breeders through out US and Canada. 

I also suggest researching pedigrees on K9data and following up on OFA to make sure all clearances and genetic test are up to date, done at appropriate ages by correct specialist as needed, and asking others if you are not sure to help you research the breeder, pedigree and clearances if one is not sure. 

Marge Trowbridge of Trowsnest Goldens in her early years was in CT and then moved to NH and now retired from breeding. Many still have her lines and may have incorporated them in their lines.

Suzanne Birks of Birks Goldens is in CT, was partnered with Marge for many many years. No longer breeding. 

Cindy Jones of Golden Joys, CT

Robert Swanson of Overlook was in CT years ago now NY.

Chris Miele of Cross Creek was past president of GRCA. Great to pick her mind about pedigrees and all. 

Wendy Bergeron of Eastshore NH has many lovey imports and great pack. Very knowledgeable. Has studs and bitches. 

Jan Bramhall of Beau Geste in NH has studs and bitches

Karin and Sean Klouman of Kyon Goldens Canada both bitches and stud dogs. Very very active really knows European lines and style 

Louise Guy of Stoneledge MA stud dogs now. 

Shannon Flynn of Cooper Moon West Coast 

Nancy Porter Gadd Northernlove Texas now, 

Joanne Cava of Tanglewood NC stud and bitches

Mary and Don Schulz Cedar Goldens MI, stud and bitches also does blend, Don is a AKC judge 

Karen Webb Star Crowned CA

April Fulk Huesofgold Alaska 

Jennifer Manzer Jadd Goldens Canada 

Marijana Racic Glamour Shine, Croatia 


There are many more good ones but a nice start and most can answer questions or refer you to someone else. Always due your homework though.


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## Megora

@Laura Way - I agree that many of the people you have mentioned are known and are good breeders. But Dana's question was about breeders who absolutely toe the line when it comes to clearances, breeding age, and ethics when it comes to what they breed and why. 

My perspective is across the board, you should trust but verify with any known breeders - INCLUDING the ones I've gotten my dogs from. You should never just buy a puppy without checking clearances or asking candid questions. And unfortunately, a lot of breeders find reasons to breed dogs who are not even two years old, who only have preliminary clearances, or who failed one or both elbows. 

When it comes to European style breeders - with many of them it seems to be more prevalent that they are cutting corners. Or they are out of the country (Canada or eastern Europe) and they are not to be held to the same standards. And some of them are drastically overcharging for what they breed, considering the quality isn't quite there.

One of the breeders I can think of has bad luck producing good looking dogs. The ones I've seen are really terrible looking. She charges equal or double what other breeders charge.

Anyway - I think puppy buyers should not be looking for a list of "approved" breeders. Particularly since there is nobody making each and every breeder toe the line and behave in an ethical manner when it comes to breeding and interacting with their puppy buyers. 

People need to know what to look for - in any case across the board whether you are looking for a European style golden, a show bred golden, a field bred golden, a golden bred for obedience and agility, or whatnot -

Look for full clearances on the dogs. 

Hips and elbows cannot be cleared until after 24 months. 

Eyes should be done once a year or at least the same year the dogs were bred.

Hearts - should be cleared by a cardiologist once after 12 months.

That's bare minimum what people should be looking for. 

Next level after that is wanting all of the same on the grandparents, great grandparents, etc.

For European style goldens, I'd go the extra step and expect the genetic tests to be done as well - particularly for ichthyosis. This skin condition is in the breed across the board. But it's worse in European lines for whatever reason.


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## Emmdenn

The purpose of this thread was to construct a list for reputable English-type breeders. We are educating perspective owners on what they should be looking for using this list as a guideline. There are, unfortunately many, many irresponsible breeders of golden retrievers in general. Now with the rise in popularity of light coated dogs, the "English Cream" trend has created a rise in those types of breeders as well.

OF COURSE regardless of the color of the dog, field type, conformation type, english type etc. buyers should be verifying heath clearances and making sure that necessary health testing is in place. This list is not the be all end all, but rather a good start for anyone who is looking for this type of breeder.

So yes, ALWAYS do your research and verify everything, but we have heard from several responsible breeders on this thread making sound suggestions for puppy buyers.


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## Prism Goldens

@Laura- Cedar Goldens- Mary and TOM not Don.


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## Emmdenn

Reminder - You can edit posts up to 4 hours after posting.


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## Megora

Prism Goldens said:


> @Laura- Cedar Goldens- Mary and TOM not Don.


And Wisconsin, not MI..


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## Laura Way

Right I was tired when putting the list together. It is Mary and Don and MI.


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## Megora

Laura Way said:


> Right I was tired when putting the list together. It is Mary and Don and MI.


They are not in Michigan.


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## Laura Way

Emmdenn said:


> The purpose of this thread was to construct a list for reputable English-type breeders. We are educating perspective owners on what they should be looking for using this list as a guideline. There are, unfortunately many, many irresponsible breeders of golden retrievers in general. Now with the rise in popularity of light coated dogs, the "English Cream" trend has created a rise in those types of breeders as well.
> 
> OF COURSE regardless of the color of the dog, field type, conformation type, english type etc. buyers should be verifying heath clearances and making sure that necessary health testing is in place. This list is not the be all end all, but rather a good start for anyone who is looking for this type of breeder.
> 
> So yes, ALWAYS do your research and verify everything, but we have heard from several responsible breeders on this thread making sound suggestions for puppy buyers.



Thank you Emma, even with the list I pulled together one should always check clearances, check pedigrees, always do your research. But it was a list to start with and no way supporting not to do those things. I believe I also suggested this when I pulled the list together. And if one is not sure how to go about researching this forma is a great place to ask with so many that understand pedigrees, and clearances and can help.


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## Goldenhunter

Goldnote Golden Retrievers, has English Cream Goldens too, not exclusively . In Wyebridge, Ontario.
Got a pup from them 2 weeks ago, extremely impressed all around; so were the folks from LA and Sanfrancisco.


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## Harley 2012

Emmdenn said:


> My Way Golden Retrievers, CT
> Eastshore Goldens, NH
> Stoneledge Golden Retrievers, MA
> Quapaw Golden Retrievers, IN (not sure how updated her website is but she is active on FB)
> Kyon Kennels (Canada)
> Darrowby Goldens, NY (though I can't maneuver their website for the life of me..)
> Bandegold Golden Retrievers, MI
> Is Trowsnest still breeding???
> 
> Thanks for doing this Dana! I think it will be really helpful to steer those members looking for English type goldens in the right direction.





DanaRuns said:


> In the last 24 hours I've been contacted by four different people looking for English Creme/European/white/light Goldens. I referred them to a couple friends who breed light dogs. But I'd like to create a list of ethical breeders all over the country who breed light dogs, or European dogs. You know they're out there. They do the health testing, they compete, they follow the CoE.
> 
> So please list any you know of in this thread. We need to be able to verify them. No greeders, mills, or BYBs, please. Just people who breed light colored dogs, both European and American, and who do it the right way. And then I will see what I can do about creating a list that we can refer people to, since this English Cream thing just keeps coming back like herpes.
> 
> Will you help?


I


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## Harley 2012

Brave said:


> The "english creme" was in quotes to denote that the layperson may term it "english creme" but that doesn't mean an ethical breeder would term it such. It's SEO (search engine optimization). The goal is to compile a list of ethical, reputable breeders whose stock and pups tends to be lighter gold than is common among the well bred community. So if someone google "english creme golden retrievers" hopefully this thread pops up over all the random BYBs out there.


I am looking for a reputable breeder for the European Cream Golden because I have one and he is so calm and gentle. This is not my first Golden I have had 6 golden retrievers and I had good luck with my European golden


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## Harley 2012

pawsnpaca said:


> Actually, most of us would say you should NOT look for an "English cream breeder." LOL! This forum is full of threads where we try to educate uninformed buyers about the fact that there is really no such thing, that they are NOT longer lived or less prone to cancer, that breeders using that term aren't generally "good" breeders, etc., etc.
> 
> That said, there are many people who just like the look of the super light Golden Retriever, or who find the somewhat heavier body style of what I think of as "European-style" more appealing. Everyone is entitled to their own preference... Liking the light blond golden is every bit as legit a preference as liking any other shade of Gold.
> 
> The problem comes in that the breeders who breed with color as the goal, or who try to capitalize on the current fad of lighter colored ("English Cream") Goldens are almost always NOT responsible, reputable breeders who are breeding according to the GRCA Code of Ethics ("COE"). This thread is an attempt to provide the novice puppy buyer who might prefer light-colored dogs with a list of reputable breeders who just happen to produce (always or sometimes) dogs with lighter coats.


That is what I am looking for the European style crime coat stockier built and blocker heads


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## pawsnpaca

Harley 2012 said:


> I am looking for a reputable breeder for the European Cream Golden because I have one and he is so calm and gentle. This is not my first Golden I have had 6 golden retrievers and I had good luck with my European golden


Just be aware that coat color and country of origin has no bearing on an individual dog's temperament. It's fine if you prefer the look of the so-called "European Cream" but you still need to do your own due diligence when choosing a breeder AND let the breeder know what kind of temperament you are looking for. Even within a given littler there can be a wide range of personalities!


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## Harley 2012

pawsnpaca said:


> Just be aware that coat color and country of origin has no bearing on an individual dog's temperament. It's fine if you prefer the look of the so-called "European Cream" but you still need to do your own due diligence when choosing a breeder AND let the breeder know what kind of temperament you are looking for. Even within a given littler there can be a wide range of personalities!


I know this would be my 6 one . I had a good breeder but she passed with lung cancer. So I just wanted a little help


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## Cindy Deatly Ross

Emmdenn said:


> My Way Golden Retrievers, CT
> Eastshore Goldens, NH
> Stoneledge Golden Retrievers, MA
> Quapaw Golden Retrievers, IN (not sure how updated her website is but she is active on FB)
> Kyon Kennels (Canada)
> Darrowby Goldens, NY (though I can't maneuver their website for the life of me..)
> Bandegold Golden Retrievers, MI
> Is Trowsnest still breeding???
> 
> Thanks for doing this Dana! I think it will be really helpful to steer those members looking for English type goldens in the right direction.


Thank you !!!


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## Patp05

Prism Goldens said:


> The problem imo is verifying things- Kathy for instance never sends heart and eye in (Quapaw) and there's one in NC who in the past I used to refer to till I realized she has zero C heart clearances, all hers are P. Plus there is the foreign underaged ortho stuff. There's one here in Ocala who's a MF member but I would never refer to her.
> I hope we can come up w a list- but I fear even our list will have to be researched individual litters at a time, I doubt ANY of them are consistently sending heart/eye in and getting C hearts and doing 24+mo orthos. I hope I am wrong. I really do. Thank you Dana. Good idea!


Which one in N.C.?


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## Patp05

Heidi Wheeler Duckworth said:


> I think that the phrase "Ethical English Creme" is an oxymoron. I am not a breeder, but anyone who "advertises" that they breed "English Cream/Creme" Goldens is breeding for all of the wrong reasons. AVOID, AVOID, AVOID!


I don’t agree with this at all. Many with outstanding reputations call them English style.


diwolff said:


> *English Cream Breeder*
> 
> We got our cream puppy from Recherche Kennels located in Statesville, NC There are excellent


What did you think of breeder?


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## Prism Goldens

English style and English Cream are two different descriptors. In reality what the great majority ( I would guess this at 95%) of dogs claimed to be English Cream are not from England but the Eastern Euro countries; Russia, the Ukraine. Recherche has been discussed numerous times here, they are not GR experts. They are expert at selling puppies for a lot of money.


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## [email protected]

Any advise about Golden Retriever Puppies | Indiana | Europeanretrievers.com ?


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## SRW

[email protected] said:


> Any advise about Golden Retriever Puppies | Indiana | Europeanretrievers.com ?


Yes, don't buy a pup from them or any other breeder selling white Golden retrievers.


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## Emmdenn

English[email protected] said:


> Any advise about Golden Retriever Puppies | Indiana | Europeanretrievers.com ?


Not reputable. Many many red flags. No no no.


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## nolefan

[email protected] said:


> Any advise about Golden Retriever Puppies | Indiana | Europeanretrievers.com ?


They are advertising Christmas puppies - big red flag.


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## [email protected]

Here are the AKC registration details of the parents the breeder provided:

DONETELLO = SS03716503
MAYROSE = SR98755601

Please advise.


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## Emmdenn

[email protected] said:


> Here are the AKC registration details of the parents the breeder provided:
> 
> DONETELLO = SS03716503
> MAYROSE = SR98755601
> 
> Please advise.


Not a SINGLE health clearance on OFA between the two of them. This is a breeder who imported light colored, badly bred dogs and is breeding them together without health clearances to make money.


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## SRW

[email protected] said:


> Here are the AKC registration details of the parents the breeder provided:
> 
> DONETELLO = SS03716503
> MAYROSE = SR98755601
> 
> Please advise.





SRW said:


> don't buy a pup from them or any other breeder selling white Golden retrievers.


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## [email protected]

Also if you don't mind. I have another breeder with details as below. Please advise if there would be a risk in this.
-----------------------------------
We imported our female from Ukraine when she was 4 months old. Her name is Huntmagic Elegance aka Elza.
Pedigree: Huntmagic Elegance

We bred Elza to a young Spanish Stud by frozen semen and AI. His name is Back to the Future De Lar De Casanova aka Marty. He has been shown in conformation and is doing really well in Europe. His pedigree is filled with champions! He is qualified for Crufts for this year! Marty has three clearances as it is not as popular in Europe to get heart clearances.We will be selling our puppies on limited AKC registration for $2500
---------------------------------------


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## Heidi Wheeler Duckworth

I would pass. Using an excuse as "it's not popular to get heart clearances in Europe" as a way to excuse yourself from using a stud who has all core clearance is shady. Not to mention charging that much for puppies from a stud who doesn't have all core clearances. This breeding is being done in the USA, not Europe. The breeders should at least follow the code of ethics for the breed club for the country in which they live.
You could do better. Keep looking for a breeder who is following GRCA code of ethics.


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## sophiameanswisdom

DanaRuns said:


> Fortunately, I already know about that breeder. Even sent someone her way a couple days ago.


"Az breeder" ? contact info?


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## sophiameanswisdom

[email protected] said:


> Also if you don't mind. I have another breeder with details as below. Please advise if there would be a risk in this.
> -----------------------------------
> We imported our female from Ukraine when she was 4 months old. Her name is Huntmagic Elegance aka Elza.
> Pedigree: Huntmagic Elegance
> 
> We bred Elza to a young Spanish Stud by frozen semen and AI. His name is Back to the Future De Lar De Casanova aka Marty. He has been shown in conformation and is doing really well in Europe. His pedigree is filled with champions! He is qualified for Crufts for this year! Marty has three clearances as it is not as popular in Europe to get heart clearances.We will be selling our puppies on limited AKC registration for $2500
> ---------------------------------------


any pics


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## gr56

[email protected] said:


> Also if you don't mind. I have another breeder with details as below. Please advise if there would be a risk in this.
> -----------------------------------
> We imported our female from Ukraine when she was 4 months old. Her name is Huntmagic Elegance aka Elza.
> Pedigree: Huntmagic Elegance
> 
> We bred Elza to a young Spanish Stud by frozen semen and AI. His name is Back to the Future De Lar De Casanova aka Marty. He has been shown in conformation and is doing really well in Europe. His pedigree is filled with champions! He is qualified for Crufts for this year! Marty has three clearances as it is not as popular in Europe to get heart clearances.We will be selling our puppies on limited AKC registration for $2500
> ---------------------------------------


 The dams clearances align with CoE

however I have no idea they would pair with frozen semen of a dog that didn’t have heart clearances . I see a excuse being cloaked in “transparency”
You would have to do the leg work with this pairing and look at the studs offspring and start going into their clearances and see if anyone has listed any heart defects.
Too much gray area for my liking I would pass


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## danimalone

DanaRuns said:


> In the last 24 hours I've been contacted by four different people looking for English Creme/European/white/light Goldens. I referred them to a couple friends who breed light dogs. But I'd like to create a list of ethical breeders all over the country who breed light dogs, or European dogs. You know they're out there. They do the health testing, they compete, they follow the CoE.
> 
> So please list any you know of in this thread. We need to be able to verify them. No greeders, mills, or BYBs, please. Just people who breed light colored dogs, both European and American, and who do it the right way. And then I will see what I can do about creating a list that we can refer people to, since this English Cream thing just keeps coming back like herpes.
> 
> Will you help?


I'm very new to this so I hope you can enlighten me...Is the English Cream bread not an accurate description or is there something I don't know about this type of retriever? I assume there is something not positive about this based on your above statement. Thanks Much!
D


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## LJack

It is that “English Cream” is a fictitious marketing label that is used almost exclusively by less than reputable breeders.

These dogs are almost never from England. Instead they are often sourced from commercial kennels (what you might call a puppy mill) in the old Soviet Bloc countries. The breeders in those countries have discovered that there is a rabid pale dog market in the US, where people will pay exorbitant prices regardless of quality as long as the dog is pale. So, often they keep their best dogs and send the lower quality puppies here for a huge profit.

Also, most of this type of breeder only cares about color and/or profit. You will see parents chosen based solely on color and convenience, which is why they often own one or more studs unrelated to their girls and constantly breed only to their own dogs. That is a set up for profit or convenience, not quality.

Way too often these breeders don’t adhere to the testing standards for the US. They might not test at all, represent underage tests as being appropriate or even bred on failing results tests.

This term gets so much scrutiny because so many bad actors are using it. It is really not about the dogs, it is about shoddy breeding practices, insufficient health certifications and lack of overall quality that are being sold to unsuspecting or uneducated buyers as being better than any other dogs.

There are responsible breeders working with this style but they don’t use this term.


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## CCoopz

danimalone said:


> I'm very new to this so I hope you can enlighten me...Is the English Cream bread not an accurate description or is there something I don't know about this type of retriever? I assume there is something not positive about this based on your above statement. Thanks Much!
> D


Also worth knowing English cream isn’t a thing in the UK. There is no great preference for cream GR’s here, it’s just one of the permissible golden shades. We love all Golden shades, lighter is not better. 

UK breeders very rarely export to the US. One reason being the demand for puppies here is sufficient, so they don’t need to. Secondly ethical reputable UK breeders are wary of the obsession some, mainly unethical for profit breeders over the pond have for the lighter ‘cream’ Golden’s.


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## littlemoonbeam

HaliaGoldens said:


> What she said. ?


I completely agree. I have been looking for a brother for my boy who we brought here from England. He is not white. He's very healthy 14.5 years and still can drag me to every place that has every he can get a treat. In England they do not refer to golden retrievers as English Creams. Mine started of a beautiful light gold color and now is much lighter. I love is blocky head and body shape but a lot of the "english creams" I have seen here are snow white, seem to come from eastern europe and are much more slender looking. I also heard that these dogs are not given as stringent health tests as the one I have from the UK. 
I am not a dog expert and do not claim to be one but breeders in the US do not seem to offering dogs that look like mine. 
If anyone knows of a breeder who has actually imported a dog of good health from the UK I would love to know. 

Thank you!


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## HaliaGoldens

littlemoonbeam said:


> I completely agree. I have been looking for a brother for my boy who we brought here from England. He is not white. He's very healthy 14.5 years and still can drag me to every place that has every he can get a treat. In England they do not refer to golden retrievers as English Creams. Mine started of a beautiful light gold color and now is much lighter. I love is blocky head and body shape but a lot of the "english creams" I have seen here are snow white, seem to come from eastern europe and are much more slender looking. I also heard that these dogs are not given as stringent health tests as the one I have from the UK.
> I am not a dog expert and do not claim to be one but breeders in the US do not seem to offering dogs that look like mine.
> If anyone knows of a breeder who has actually imported a dog of good health from the UK I would love to know.
> 
> Thank you!


I have imported a few puppies over the years from Western Europe (Austria and Holland), and shipped frozen semen over from stud dogs in the United Kingdom, Spain, and Holland, and they have been very healthy dogs with excellent pedigrees. But it takes years of building a relationship and trust with a quality breeder over there. The ones that are good are going to require you to demonstrate your knowledge and good intentions, so they can be confident that you won’t diminish the quality they’ve worked so hard to create over the generations of their breeding program. My breeders in Europe have become good friends and mentors over the years, so it can be done. But it’s not common, and most European goldens in this country now are unfortunately from unscrupulous breeders that will sell to anyone willing to pay enough.


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## littlemoonbeam

HaliaGoldens said:


> I have imported a few puppies over the years from Western Europe (Austria and Holland), and shipped frozen semen over from stud dogs in the United Kingdom, Spain, and Holland, and they have been very healthy dogs with excellent pedigrees. But it takes years of building a relationship and trust with a quality breeder over there. The ones that are good are going to require you to demonstrate your knowledge and good intentions, so they can be confident that you won’t diminish the quality they’ve worked so hard to create over the generations of their breeding program. My breeders in Europe have become good friends and mentors over the years, so it can be done. But it’s not common, and most European goldens in this country now are unfortunately from unscrupulous breeders that will sell to anyone willing to pay enough.


Hi I would love to be updated when you have a new litter coming up! I’m currently on the search for a little brother for my guy.


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## rfuk808

Just want to say thanks for posting the recommended ethical breeders. After reaching out to 5+ breeders (found on google and AKC) and coming away only feeling 'ok" at best about 1 of them we reached out to Sallie at Darrowby Goldens. I came away from our initial conversation with her feeling great and very excited about potentially getting a puppy from her next year.


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## annef

CCoopz said:


> Also worth knowing English cream isn’t a thing in the UK. There is no great preference for cream GR’s here, it’s just one of the permissible golden shades. We love all Golden shades, lighter is not better.
> 
> UK breeders very rarely export to the US. One reason being the demand for puppies here is sufficient, so they don’t need to. Secondly ethical reputable UK breeders are wary of the obsession some, mainly unethical for profit breeders over the pond have for the lighter ‘cream’ Golden’s.


One of many reasons I won't export to the US (although I did breed one that had a wonderful home as a pet and has just died at well over 13 years of age) We have all shades of gold and cream here and nothing nicer than to see a lineup of all colours in the show ring, all meeting our breed standard.Annef


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