# Heart Murmur - 8 week Pup



## HoneyQ (Dec 27, 2013)

Hi everyone,

I just joined the forum 2 days ago. My family and I have been involved in the search process for almost a year. Through a number of situations (litter lost, pregnancies not taken, extensive research on 4 breeders, etc.) we finally picked up our female pup yesterday from the breeder. Upon going through all of the paperwork with the breeder she communicated that our female pup, along with 2 other females in a litter of 9 have a grade 1/6 heart murmur. Our breeder has an impeccable reputation, has been a breeder for 25+ years, involved in GRCOA, AKC, etc. She shared with us the health certificate. The entire litter was screened for congenital heart problems by a DVM, Diplomate ACVIM (Cardiology) on December 26th. The doctor appears to be very reputable as well from reading his creds. Here is the language as it appears on the doctors assessment of my pup; 

Grade I/VI early systolic, high pitched left basilar murmur that sounds innocent. 

The description for the other two female pups is exactly the same however "Intermittant" is included. Per the doctor's summary - "There is no family history of congenital heart disease and no congenital heart disease is suspect in any of the puppies. This litter has 3 puppies with soft, innocent sounding murmurs that are expected to resolve in time. These puppies should have routine auscultation performed at 4 and 6 months of age to ensure that murmurs resolve". The parent's of the pups have all of their clearances and both have Normal Cardiac assessed by a Cardiologist.

Needless to say we are concerned that if the murmur does not resolve in time we could be in for extensive vet bills and the health of our pup could be at risk. The breeder said it is nothing to be concerned about as the murmur is the lowest grade possible. I'm on deck to see my vet for the first time tomorrow and will certainly ask her opinion. I'd like to know if I should get a second opinion and have my own Cardiology assessment completed to validate what I've been told by the breeder and her Cardiologist. I have a health guarantee of ONE WEEK to return the pup for a refund of the full purchase price ($1,800). That is certainly a last resort as we all love her and my 10 year-old daughter would be crushed if we had to that. If I keep the pup will this be considered as a "pre-existing condition" on a future health insurance policy? Guess I'm looking for some of the experts here and perhaps breeders to weigh-in. Thank you in advance for your input.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

My puppy Reilly was purchased at 14 weeks. He had a murmur diagnosed by my vet, not a cardiologist. In Alaska we do not have a cardiologist in state. So I did not have the option of going to a cardiologist and making sure my vet knew what they were talking about. My point is, your pup has been diagnosed by a certified cardiologist. I would not take the pup to my vet and ask for any information about my pup's heart. I would only go to a cardiologist who is trained more specifically in that area. 

Going back to Reilly. He did grow out of it, which was great because I did NOT have a contract.

You have a contract and you have great information from a cardiologist. If you have concerns I would take your pup only to a certified cardiologist for a second opinion. I personally wouldn't worry about it. Is is wonderful that your breeder took the pups to a cardiologist. I would do that before the week is up so that you can make an informed opinion. Your pup will probably grow out of it.

This is just my 2 cents, I am not a vet or a vet tech.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

FWIW - this is not uncommon to have innocent grade 1 murmurs. It is a good sign that your breeder used a Cardiologist and disclosed the issue. If you are truly concerned that this could be a serious issue later, I recommend consulting you contract to see what is says. If there is nothing in there, perhaps you could ask the breeder to write an addendum specific to this single issue. though you would have had a better position to do this before you signed and took the puppy, it may be worth a try. 
Usually in 4 to 6 months, you will find there was nothing to worry about. I hope it goes that way for you.


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## HoneyQ (Dec 27, 2013)

Yes, my breeder was very transparent and informative. Guess I'm just concerned and want the best for my pup and family. Thank you both for your input. Appreciate it.


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## rkiel512 (Dec 29, 2013)

In the context of human medicine, a _murmur _is nothing more than a superfluous heart sound that doesn't correlate well with morbidity and mortality. For example, I have a heart _murmur_ but that per se doesn't restrict activity or life expectancy. However, if the _murmur_ is the result of other pathology then it is an issue. That doesn't seem to be the case here. The puppy is too young and there is no history of anatomical cardiac anomalies. The _murmur_ doesn't have to "go away" with time. You can have a _murmur_ your entire life with no consequence whatsoever.


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## HoneyQ (Dec 27, 2013)

Thanks rkiel512. Makes sense....guess I am being overly cautious here. Just want the best for my girl. Appreciate it...


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Gr1 murmurs are soooo common in our breed. In a puppy that will ultimately have SAS, it is a left ventricular just below the aorta tissue band that will become a stenosis and cause the chamber not to fill as it should. Any turbulent blood flow that makes a sound is a murmur, and the cardiologist that the breeder had examine the litter stated that s/he expected they were innocent and should resolve in maturity- I'd for sure take her back for a listen when she's 6-7 months old, and ask the breeder to be open to a remedy should it not resolve... but it sounds like the cardiologist expects it to, and the breeder should be trusted to do the right thing as s/he has already disclosed and sought the best opinion available. And your puppy could live her whole life with a Gr1 murmur with absolutely no problems whatever, a murmur isn't SAS but just a sound created from turbulent blood flow.


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## ktkins7 (Jul 20, 2013)

I don't know how different it is for dogs, but I know that I have a very slight heart murmur. Doesn't affect me in any way. My doctor said it isn't anything to worry about because its so minor. I had another doctor that I had to see for a physical for work and he said the same thing when he heard it. They just check every couple of years to make sure that it sounds it the same and hasn't changed at all.

If you are worried I would look into and see how it can affect the puppy. I take it as a good sign that the breeder told you about it and was up front and everything. If you really feel uncertain maybe a consult with a specialist and see what they have to say.


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## Jaxmom (Oct 3, 2013)

my husky had a murmur when she was little. The vet said we would keep our eye on it. She was fine, and lived a happy life.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I have to say, your breeder impresses me, bc that is over and above what most people will do with a typical grade I puppy murmur. 

I empathize with your worry, as I have been there with a grade I that did resolve completely by 12 weeks, and then did pass the cardiologist as well.

I have also been in the anguishing position of returning a different puppy within my 72 hour window to a well-known breeder who sent me a puppy with a 4/5 heart murmur. My vet had me listen to that puppy's heart and then to Tally's good heart- it was educational and sad at the same time to hear the waterfall woooosh sound of a very bad prognosis heart. That puppy ended up with a life expectancy of less than a year. 

There is every reason to think your pup's murmur will resolve, but I would want to see that happen at 12 weeksish. Nonetheless, I think that in most cases a severe heart issue is shockingly obvious and would alarm the cardiologist. the language is very reassuring, as cardiologists dont usually go in for false hopes etc and have lots of experience.


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## HoneyQ (Dec 27, 2013)

We are very happy with our breeder and her complete transparency in dealing with us. It's more of a sanity check then anything else for me and the responses here have been extremely helpful and reassuring. Thank you all for sharing.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Generally Grade 1 will be innocent... The lower the grade going from 1-6, the better... And I have known many Grade III,with mild SAS live a normal life...


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

And a pup can have an innocent murmur at a young age, but develop SAS. SAS is hereditary, not congenital..


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## goldy1 (Aug 5, 2012)

The odds are in favor that the murmur will resolve. Not to cause you unnecessary worry either. But my Golden Chance was one of the unfortunate cases where the murmur was still present at 6 months. 

We also were informed of the murmur when we took him home at 8 weeks. Another puppy in the litter had a murmur that DID resolve. 

Our puppy's murmur turned out to be caused by a congenital condition (not hereditary). A malformed valve. Without getting into all the details, we were told that without surgery, he might live to be a year or 2 at most. The only option was open-heart surgery at Colorado State Veterinary Teaching Hospital (1900 miles from where we live on the east coast). Chance had the surgery when he was 9 months old. It was 100% successful. Chance is now 8 years old and lives a completely normal life. I still consider it a miracle.

If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't make a different decision. Chance was meant for us and we for him. I shudder to think if we didn't choose him due to him having a murmur. He is a miracle and the sweetest gentlest boy who makes every day a joy. 

I doubt that the murmur in your pup will be anything more than an innocent murmur, but wanted you to know other stories do exist.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*HoneyQ*

HoneyQ

Welcome to you and your pup!!


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## HoneyQ (Dec 27, 2013)

Thank you Karen...appreciate it...


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