# Biting and crate problems, please help



## jacksonho (Mar 6, 2006)

Hi guys and girls,
hopefully you can help me out with this one, as it is causing me a lot of problems. I have a now 9 week old male pup who I have had for around 1 week. He is mostly a good pup, sits, waits for his food, comes when called but I have 2 serious issues.
1. He will not stop biting anyone, he will be calm for a bit then all of a sudden is known to charge people and go to bite their face, arms etc. He often bites clothes and holds on. He will also not release anything that he is holding, he just wants to play tug of war. The bites are very painful and are really putting us in a angry position with him. I have tried numerous things, scream ouch, loud yelps. Those do not work, he just holds on. I have also tried turning my back but he just bites my back, we attempt to put him into time out areas for 30 seconds but he just comes back and bites.
2. He seems to be resisting his crate. He has no problems sleeping in there when he is really tired, but the usual routine is that he will go to sleep on the floor outside his crate, then I will pick him up and put him in his crate, in the process of moving him he wakes up. I close the crate door and he will just make noises, whining and barking till he is let out. Last night it went for over 1 hour. As soon as you let him out he goes straight to sleep on the tiles and then after I wait 5 minutes I put him in the cage, he lays down and goes to sleep. Any ideas to get him to sleep the first time?
Thanks, any help is appreciated, he is a lovely dog, but is such a handful.


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## greg bell (May 24, 2005)

sounds like a pretty agressive little pup.. but, you are bigger and time for you to take charge.. 
others will have suggestions.. but the biting, I do not permit.. 
i do like their mom would.. I take them by the scruff of their neck..shake them with a NO!!!!... and be consistant... every time he bites, he gets in big trouble.. he will quit.. 
and you are right..little puppy teeth do hurt..


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## mblondetoo (Jan 9, 2006)

Sorry to hear about the problems with your new pup. We just adopted a rescue that was 9mo. old and she did the same biting thing! She was 50 lbs. though. Nothing worked with her until one day we found she would stop playing when we made a barking noise! We tried that a few times and overnight she's a different dog. This I'm sure was a freak thing but it did work! It sounds crazy. Having a pup, you do want to "nip" it in the bud. lol. Some have suggested all the things you mention trying, but one thing we were even ready to try was using the bitter apple spray. I'm not sure what has worked for others but have heard to spray it into his mouth when he starts biting. I have also heard that some dogs actually like the taste! We were going to try Listerine! No one likes that taste do they?

We didn't have the crate problem you mention but it sounds like he is training you to let him out. I would suggest what we did with our dog even though she was a lot older, keep him awake. Make sure he is tired when he goes in. I know it's hard to deal with no sleep and a crying if not screaming pup. Some say let them cry, others bring the crate into their room so they are close. Some feed them in the crate. There are so many different ways to deal with it. When our other pup refused to deal with a crate we brought her in with us and our other dog and packed up the crate. She was perfect and never went back in! You just never know. This is a great place and you will get lots of ideas to try.


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## ty823 (Feb 7, 2006)

This will be kind of hard to describe in words, but were told to do this in obedience class-
While saying "NO BITE", make your hand flat and shove it all the way to the back of their mouth while holding on to the back of their neck. When your hand is all the way back, they can't bite down on you and they will actually start to gag a little and try to spit your hand out, and soon learn that it is not very pleasant to have your hand inside their mouth.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Lucky was a playbiting fiend also. The only safe way to get near him was to play tug a war. We couldn't even pet him with out the needle teeth raring back for skin. I must say...I did not have a good "young puppy" relationship.

Yelping, anger, time-out, nose-tapping didn't seem to do anything to stop Lucky's biting either....but at about 14 weeks something went "click" and he began to understand. So don't dispair. Keep "teaching him". Just like "mama dog" would.

One way I found to have a little bit of occassional mental "peace" was to pack my pockets and hands with kibble and sit down for some "cuddle" time. As long as he let me pet him and cuddle he'd have a little snack. When I was a chew toy...me and the treats angrily went away. 

My young children always had kibble in their pockets and this was a good time for them to teach him commands and have him obey them. Lucky calmed down with the smell of food and learned to consider them as the master. They really couldn't play with him safely at this young age until the biting was controlled.

If he hangs on your clothes...don't wait for him to decide when to get off. Get him off yourself immediately and communicate your anger. This helps him know that you are in charge.

I know you are frustrated. My Lucky is now the most soft-mouthed, sweet, sensitive 6 month old. It took a while for him to get out of the baby stage. At 14 weeks I saw some real changes.

As far as the crate...you are just going to have to let him cry. Everytime you let him out...he learns his crying works and you make the problem worse. 

Others on this board will have ideas to help him be more comforted. My thought is to feed him in the crate, give him a treat when he goes in...anything to help him see it as a secure, comfy place. The more he goes in the more he'll find it accepting.

Good luck to you!!!!!! It seems tough now but the future is worth it.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Maggie was a biter... we were told by several trainers.... to put you finger down the back of his throat and press down on there tongue..It will make them gag and they dont like the gagging feeling. She stop after a few times...


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Welcome to the forum, jacksonho....

The biting....Samson also did that, but the saying Ouch and ignoring him helped....and eventually, he either grew out of it, or he lost the baby teeth and we haven't noticed as much.....not sure which. I think he still does a lot of play biting....it's just not as painful/noticable without those SHARP teeth.

As far as the crate.....we started off bribing him with a treat to get into it. He eventually got to the point that he would just go straight for it when we opened his treat bottle.... There were times in the beginning with his crate, that I'd put him in it, and then I would lay down in front of it. He was more comfortable in it when I was that close. Then he'd fall asleep easier.....

Rick


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

I go with Lucky's mom on this one... time and patience do work. You can (and should) apply some sort of mild corrections but from my experience, don't expect too much until about 14-weeks (or so) of age. At this point, it seems some sort of mental development occurs that allows them to begin exercising some self-control over their instinctual behaviors. Don't look for an instant miracle to occur, but you actually will begin see real, undeniable improvement with the biting and by the time your pup is 5 to 6 months old all those sharp puppy teeth are gone, your arms have healed, and you'll have a wonderful, cuddly dog... well, most of the time.

One thing that always helps is to make sure your puppy is getting adequate exercise. Take him out for little 15-20-minute 'walks' several times a day. Play with him during his waking hours... especially those 2 or 3-hours just before bedtime... do NOT allow him to nap in the few hours before his bedtime... and when you put him into the crate, under no circumstances do you ever remove him unless he has been quiet for at least 5-minutes. It can seem like an eternity when a puppy is crying, barking and acting-up... so have a clock near-by and actually time the 5-minutes of silence... it will be longer than you think.


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## Leo's Mom (Feb 27, 2006)

Leo was the same way with biting. I did what ty823 did with the mouth thing and it worked wonders! We did add in a "alpa dog" hold and waited for submission. I am very soft hearted and I must confess that I have trouble correcting, but this was a technique that I was able to use and never thought twice about it. I can get a photo of the hold that we used on Leo if you want to see how it works. 

As for the crate thing, Leo had some problems with being in the crate so I got creative. I kinda crawled in the crate with him and got him settled and rewarded him with lots of affection. After 2 nights of helping him go to sleep he did it on his own. He did wake up a few times and cried but I did not give him any additional attention.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

jacksonho said:


> ...he will be calm for a bit then all of a sudden is known to charge people and go to bite their face, arms etc. He often bites clothes and holds on. He will also not release anything that he is holding, he just wants to play tug of war...
> ...I have tried numerous things, scream ouch, loud yelps. Those do not work, he just holds on. I have also tried turning my back but he just bites my back...


If it's any consolation to you, you are pretty much describing Sidney when he was 9-13 weeks old and yet today (@ 22-months old) he is the quintessential, stereo-typical Golden Retriever... he's gentle, lovable and calm, very soft-mouthed (only to people he knows and loves) and never mouths anyone he doesn't especially love or if the 'loved one' says "Don't bite".


jacksonho said:


> ...The bites are very painful and are really putting us in a angry position with him...
> ...we attempt to put him into time out areas for 30 seconds but he just comes back and bites...


At times you will want to just "smack" him... but please don't... get a grip, remember he's just a little puppy. Do the time-out thing, it does work but it's really got to be more than 30-seconds to be effective... that's because it will take him at least 5-minutes to "throttle down" and go through a change of state... from a 'nutz-o' puppy to a calm puppy. Again, time him. He needs to be quiet and calm for at least 5-full minutes before you release him from the time-out. Also remember you can resort to exercise when he gets really revved-up. Start him now by putting on a collar for longer periods of time... then start attaching a short string for him to pull around and eventually a leash. When he gets use to the 'equipment', walk around with him while you hold the leash... finally, when he is use to the 'collar, leash, and you' as one unit, start putting a light tension on the leash in the direction you wish to travel in until he figures out that if he goes in your direction slack in the leash is created. Do this 6 to 8-times a day with him, for about 10-minutes each time. In the beginning you won't go very far (even 20-feet in 10-minutes is good), but soon he will be 'leash walking' properly... I venture to say within 3 days, easy. Now you can take him for walks around the block (no more than 15 to 20-minutes each time). Do this 4 or 5 times a day along with several play sessions in the house or in the backyard... your puppy will become a lot easier to handle then and will start to calm-down much sooner. Again, there are no miracles to be had here... remember you have a little puppy and little puppies soon become big puppies with more energy and get into more trouble. It will get crazier before it gets better... hang in there, nurture your bond with your puppy by not demanding too much too soon or by using undue force (all you accomplish by 'strong-arming' a little puppy is to teach him that humans can play really rough and eventually he will 'step-up' to meet that challenge... not the best situation for bonding).


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## VeronicaLovesHerGoldens (May 27, 2005)

I never had a biting problem with my dogs but I do know that as they get older they will catch on to what it is you want from them. The one thing that Zazoo does do is take my wrist in his mouth but doesn't bite down whenever I try to pat my older Golden. He has a big jealousy issue.

As far as the crate issue went - I placed the crate next to our bed and when I put Zazoo in it for the night I'd put a light weight blanket on top of the crate to let him know its time to sleep and he did well with that. I know every dog is different but this worked for us. Good luck!


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## kowey (Feb 28, 2006)

Others have given great advice. Let me console you with this:
A pup looks cute, but is not always. An old dog does not look cute, but is.
So keep faith!

Remember Kiplings poem:

‘Thy Servant a Dog’
His Apologies
Rudyard Kipling


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MASTER, this is Thy Servant. He is rising eight weeks old.
He is mainly Head and Tummy. His legs are uncontrolled.
But Thou hast forgiven his ugliness, and settled him on Thy knee . . .
Art Thou content with Thy Servant? He is very comfy with Thee. 
Master, behold a Sinner? He hath done grievous wrong.
He hath defiled Thy Premises through being kept in too long.
Wherefore his nose has been rubbed in the dirt, and his self-respect has been bruiséd.
Master, pardon Thy Sinner, and see he is properly looséd. 

Master—again Thy Sinner! This that was once Thy Shoe,
He hath found and taken and carried aside, as fitting matter to chew.
Now there is neither blacking nor tongue, and the Housemaid has us in tow.
Master, remember Thy Servant is young, and tell her to let him go! 

Master, extol Thy Servant! He hath met a most Worthy Foe!
There has been fighting all over the Shop—and into the Shop also!
Till cruel umbrellas parted the strife (or I might have been choking him yet).
But Thy Servant has had the Time of his Life—and now shall we call on the vet? 

Master, behold Thy Servant! Strange children came to play,
And because they fought to caress him, Thy Servant wentedst away.
But now that the Little Beasts have gone, he has returned to see
(Brushed—with his Sunday collar on—) what they left over from tea. 

. . . . .
Master, pity Thy Servant! He is deaf and three parts blind,
He cannot catch Thy Commandments. He cannot read Thy Mind.
Oh, leave him not in his loneliness; nor make him that kitten’s scorn.
He has had none other God than Thee since the year that he was born! 
Lord, look down on Thy Servant! Bad things have come to pass,
There is no heat in the midday sun nor health in the wayside grass.
His bones are full of an old disease—his torments run and increase.
Lord, make haste with Thy Lightnings and grant him a, quick release!


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Oh my.....I had to read it twice and aloud to get my mind to comprehend...and broke down at that last paragraph.


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## kowey (Feb 28, 2006)

Yes I know: even after xxx times, I can't read it, without becoming sentimantal. But I was always something of a silly fellow!
Still, it's my favorite dog-poem. Good old Kipling!


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## katieanddusty (Feb 9, 2006)

Welcome!

For the biting I would try yelping like a puppy whenever his teeth touch your skin (whether it hurts or not, even if it barely brushes your skin). Then if he does it again, yelp again and then walk away for a few minutes. Yelp as loud as you want, but don't hit him or talk to him or anything. You are communicating in the same way that his littermates did, "ow, that hurts, please stop."

For the crate, it would be easiest to make sure he's really tired before he goes into the crate. Keep him awake for a few hours beforre bedtime and then play fetch or something right before you put him in.


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## Brinkleysmom (Dec 17, 2005)

Hi, I never had the biting problem; but as for the crate, what I did was bring the crate in the bedroom with us and put one of his toys in there with him. I also gave him a half of a biscuit and that seemed to work. His crying days were over. With Brinkley, she did well on the crate. But I think she was just so glad to have a home and be loved that she would do anything. My crate problem was with my first golden, Tyler. But once I did that, I never had another crate problem. Hope it helps.


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## DEE (Jan 17, 2006)

We Tell Our Pup Clyde He's Not A Shark When He Bites, And Now He Thinks It's His Name!11 It's A Tough Habit To Break, And The Bites Can Be Painful- Clapping Our Hands At Him Seems To Help. He Doesn;t Like The Sound.
Dee


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## MegB (Jul 19, 2005)

jacksonho said:


> The bites are very painful and are really putting us in a angry position with him.


Lots of great advice here. I only have to add that when you are feeling angry, it is time for a time-out, for you and for the pup. Put him somewhere safe and confined, to give him time to calm down, and you time to cool down. Woody nipped so much as a puppy, and there were times I felt I was losing my patience. But getting angry won't help the problem, it will only make it worse. A time-out will give you time to think, and him time to realize that biting equals no playing.

I also use this with my kids


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## Samson's Biggest Fan (Feb 20, 2006)

1.When our pup was younger, and teeth much sharper we tried the yelping and barking too but with no sucess....The only thing that seemed to worked for us was when we held his snout like a muzzle would and told him repetitively "No Biting". OR a quick (but not too hard) slap under his chin with the same "No Biting" command. He is as gentle as anything now with the acception of playfights with Dad.
2. Crate training can be heart breaking....I realize it takes A LOT of patience but all we did is ignore Samson and he started to learn that we were not going to come when called.

Good Luck! Hope we can help!


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## jacksonho (Mar 6, 2006)

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the help, thought I would update you on the situation. He is liking his crate more and more now, barely moans at all. 

Unfortunately the biting hasn't improved at all. I have tried the nose hold, he just moves around, makes noises and once I release him he just grabs on. I tried the fingers in the mouth for a few days and all he did was learn that he just had to move his head a bit back and he could bite again.

I've put him outside for 5 - 10 mins but that is no help either. Any other ideas?


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## ty823 (Feb 7, 2006)

When you shove your fingers in, hold onto the back of his neck with your other hand so that he can't back out of it.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

jacksonho said:


> ...I've put him outside for 5 - 10 mins but that is no help either. Any other ideas?


Putting him outside won't really do much for calming a puppy down... there are so many distractions out there. You need to confine him, like in a crate or some other little closed off area without much distraction... this forces him to calm down over the course of 5-minutes... but he must be 'quiet and calm' for a full 5-minutes first before you go to him.

Take heart, by my calculations you only have about another month until his own natural "self-control" will start to 'kick-in' and within another month the sharp puppy fangs fall out... Whew!

Then the jumping begins :doh:


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Here is an article that brought me some peace and understanding. Believe me...I was as frustrated and angry as you. This can be a trying time.
http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

I might add that puppies are different. Some puppies seem to do well with deterrants...like shoving your finger in the back of the throat. Didn't work for my Lucky. Yes it did stop that particular bite.....

Since consistancy didn't seem to work on him I figured that 1) He was deranged somehow or 2)He was lacking in the needed control.

The article I posted above helped me see that he was a normal puppy that needed to learn self-control. Unfortunately that can take some time.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Your right every dog is different, but I can say this Maggie was the worse at nipping and biting..etc... I went and watched a days worth of K-9 training with hands on and still today were are working with a private trainer( not for biting).... the finger down the back of the throat with consistancy will stop the biting...It wont happen over night.. but it works! It took Maggie about a month to totally stop biting and nipping. As my trainer says hes not there to train the dog ,... hes there to train us.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Maggies mom said:


> ...It took Maggie about a month to totally stop biting and nipping...


Could it be that Maggie would have quit biting and nipping on her own, as her self-control just naturally developed? About how old was she when she began curtailing the biting behavior? In the past I had conferred with a number of Golden puppy/dog owners (on another forum at the time) and discovered that 14-weeks seemed to be the magic age at which self-control over the biting urge first seems to emerge. Nothing dramatic, mind you, but definitely noticeable where you can finally begin to see progress. In fact, several posters and longtime Golden owners said that they do absolutely nothing about the biting and it just mellows into gentle soft mouthing on its own... its merely a function of time. I personally think an owner should do something but I will admit there was no noticeable improvement in Sidney's biting until he turned 14-weeks old... so go figure.

I will continue to urge patience and the passage of time as part of the solution... However I will continue to advise plenty of opportunities for excercise... exercise will go a long way toward helping to solve almost any puppy/dog problem liable to come up... in fact, I believe its always the very first step in any behavior problem solving solution.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Maggie was over 14 weeks and it was getting worse.... having kids in and out thur the day, I was going to take any chances.... I am home all day so it wasnt for the lack of excercise... we walk a mile a day 2 times a day, we play in the yard a good hour a day, as in the house as well....


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

See, I'm thinking Lucky's bad biting (8 weeks to about 13 1/2 weeks) was almost reflexive...But at 14 weeks, he nipped in play (had that mischeivious look in his eye) and THEN timeout was truely effective.


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## natedog91604 (Apr 10, 2006)

I'm having the same problem as you are. Dixie, my 12 wk old is a biter too. But I must say, reading all the responses made me feel better. I seriously hope that eventually, this bad habit of hers will go away and be the pet I'd always wanted to have. I wonder what's causing this behavior, though? Baby teeth? What if I had all of them pulled and let her real teeth come out? Not too saddistic? Sorry for sounding crazy here. But I think it's a trial and error strategy. I'm doing all the techniques I read to be effective and whichever works, obviously I'd stick by it. The most practical for me is the spray bottle. Just had to make a stronger pressure to emphasize my displeasure of her behavior. She seems to stop for several seconds and then I walk away and shut the door in front of her. I hope I'd see results eventually.
The crate...we used to leave her in our garage during her bedtime. I heard her cry for a very quick moment and there she was, all quiet and trying to get some sleep. I am just trying this crate training though. We got this play pen, more like a cage. Will this work wonders for her or us leaving her in the garage works the same? The pen is also in the garage. The only difference i can think of is that she has smaller space to roam around on. Does this pen substitute for the purpose of having a crate? I am sorry that I am asking. I should be giving you answers instead of burdening you with my problems.:wave:


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## mrod (Apr 12, 2006)

I heard yesterday from a neighbor that freezing a sock and giving that to puppies to chew on will help when they are young and teething. Has anyone else heard of this or tryed it?


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## Shane's Mom (May 7, 2005)

How about trying to give your pup something he CAN chew on when he starts nipping with those sharp little teeth? Teething is very painful for them and goldens are definite agressive chewers! When he starts nipping, I'd still do the "OUCH!" thing and then give him something he's allowed to chew! He'll soon understand what he's allowed to chew and what's off limits.
Puppyhood is so hard and can be very frustrating. I keep telling myself patience! He'll outgrow this!


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## Shane's Mom (May 7, 2005)

Sorry - I forgot to mention about the crate training. I was always told to NEVER let them out of the crate when they're barking or having a fit. I had a pup once that carried on the entire first two nights in the crate. You just have to bite the bullet and put in ear plugs. If you give in and let him out you're rewarding the bad behavior. To get my pup in the crate at night I just lure him in with a treat - sometimes just held through the top of the crate until he gets in there - and then simply close the door and then give another treat. The pup I have now went thru a few days (well after he had been sleeping in the crate at night) when he would bark and bark for about ten minutes before he settled down. I just ignored him until he got the idea that the barking was not going to work. I am too worried he will chew something that will hurt him while I'm asleep to give in to him about sleeping in the crate. He's a very good boy now and goes to sleep every night without a peep! Good luck!


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