# Hi All - Newbie Here with a Breeder Question RE: Starrdust Goldens



## leesooim (Nov 1, 2012)

Figured I would post links to the dams that currently have litters. This is Splash's first litter, whereas the current litter is Breeze's last litter per the breeder.

Pedigree: Starr's Splash Me Again RN Splash
Pedigree: Starr's Ocean Breeze CD RN CGC Breeze


----------



## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Clearances seem to be in order with Starrdust, so that is a good thing. The only thing is, that some of the dogs do have European lines behind them so I would want to see testing for PRA1 and now PRA2 done on those dogs as those forms of PRA are more prevalent in European lines.

There are more breeders of Goldens in your region of NYS--it may be a couple of hours to get to them but it will give you an opportunity to meet more breeders and dogs. Check out the Golden Retriever Club of Central New York. I know of number of people in that club who breed on a limited basis as well. Golden Retriever Club of Central New York, Golden Retrievers, Syracuse, New York


----------



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

The suggestions made to you above are very good. Please take your time and do the research, meet more breeders, preferably some who show their dogs in some venue (obedience, confirmation, hunt etc) and are very open about health clearances. Have fun with your search!


----------



## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

You are on the right track! Both look to be good breeders, but as the others have said, look into the additional venues people show their dogs in, to see what their dogs can do, not only looking pretty for the show ring. Any other questions are certainly welcome!


----------



## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

leesooim said:


> Figured I would post links to the dams that currently have litters. This is Splash's first litter, whereas the current litter is Breeze's last litter per the breeder.
> 
> Pedigree: Starr's Splash Me Again RN Splash
> Pedigree: Starr's Ocean Breeze CD RN CGC Breeze



Looks like Splash was due for eye clearance update. I would get a copy of the update. Eyes have to be done every year so she was due in September. Posting the dams are only half of the story. Who are the sires to these litters.


----------



## leesooim (Nov 1, 2012)

Good morning!

Thanks for the replies so far -- very sound advice!

I just wanted to clarify that we did look at other breeders in the central and western NY areas (probably 8-10), and I have visited 4 of them. We just felt it might be more beneficial if we were able to find a breeder closer to home than a couple hours, but I'm getting the sense that it's not important to have easy access to the breeder via physical proximity?

www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=239271 Blake (sire)

Breeder website for Blake (doesn't seem like they're good at maintaining it): Gemstar Golden Retrievers and Comfort Kennel, Golden Retriever Breeders, Darien Center, New York

Also, and perhaps I'm really showing my ignorance and if so, I apologize, but as we are ONLY interested in having a companion dog, if the breeder has excellent clearances for their dogs, is it really so important about show stuff? Obedience lines and therapy lines are great things to know (and we certainly don't want a line that is known to be working or aggressive), but if the dog looks pretty in the show ring, I'm not sure if all I want is a pet if that's something that should matter to me. Insight is appreciated


----------



## mickeychick (Jul 19, 2012)

leesooim said:


> Good morning!
> 
> Thanks for the replies so far -- very sound advice!
> 
> ...


I think (and I could be wrong here) that showing their dogs is important because it proves that the breeder is conforming to proper breed standards. I didn't understand why that was important either, but that is my understanding.


----------



## leesooim (Nov 1, 2012)

That makes sense, actually. And I did notice that Starrdust for example she is an AKC breeder of merit, and refers to herself as a small scale serious hobby breeder.


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Hey leesooim,

I have "just" pets too, but I've learned a ton about how important titles and competition are.

The reason that show and working titles are so important is that they mean the breeder is using more than just her own eyes to choose breeding dogs. Obedience, field, agility, and conformation ("show") titles are proof that the dog is showing good ability, athleticism, and structure. Without them, the breeder is relying on his or her own expertise alone to pick good dogs, rather than proving those good qualities in front of independent eyes and to independent standards.

Since there are so many joint, heart, and temperament problems in dogs, competing offers a way of evaluating your dogs over and over and over so only the best and truest to type are bred. If you neglect to do that, those positive qualities can slip. 

Ten or fifteen years ago, I thought that the show ring was just about looks too, but I've since learned that it's about protecting what makes Goldens Goldens and making sure that each and every dog produced has the best possible shot at a Golden temperament and a long, healthy life.

Everything we love about a Golden Retriever is protected by those hobby breeders who compete with their dogs and then produce litters with extraordinary care and attention to health, temperament, and working ability. The "big four" clearances (hips, elbows, hearts, and eyes) are the first step, but there's so much more that goes into it.

So even when you don't plan to show your dog in any venue, the dog most likely to turn out with true Golden qualities and the best structure and longevity is the dog whose breeder is consistently competing and proving his or her dogs. And, interestingly enough, these dogs are rarely the most expensive because the great breeders tend to keep their prices artificially low in order to be picky about finding great homes for their beloved puppies.


----------



## leesooim (Nov 1, 2012)

Thank you thank you. I've also found the thread in this forum titled another puppy checklist to be very helpful -- without the page from that site listing the terminology, I never would have been able to figure out what the heck all the letters after the dog's names meant!

Looks like the breeder I originally posted about has quite a few RN's, but also some RA's and RE's among her girls (current dams are RA's and CGC's, and the one is CD).


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

*Why are show/proformance dogs the best "pets" IMHO*



leesooim said:


> Also, and perhaps I'm really showing my ignorance and if so, I apologize, but as we are ONLY interested in having a companion dog, if the breeder has excellent clearances for their dogs, is it really so important about show stuff? Obedience lines and therapy lines are great things to know (and we certainly don't want a line that is known to be working or aggressive), but if the dog looks pretty in the show ring, I'm not sure if all I want is a pet if that's something that should matter to me. Insight is appreciated


This is a statement that a lot of puppy buyers make. I don't want a show dog or a proformance dog, why should I care about champions or performance titles in the pedigree?

1. When you buy from a breeder who is actively competing and showing, they are out there in the fancy. They are talking to other breeders, attending seminars, gaining knowledge of structure, heritable diseases, bloodlines and care. This means they are not working in a vacuum.

2. Breeders who compete are actively looking to improve their line. That litter they are producing is one they are hoping will produce the next step in their program. They are working for themselves. You reap the benefit since there are usually a small number of show quality, the rest are pets. Ever hear the addage you work harder when your selfemployed? It is the same philosophy here. 

3. Structure, structure structure. Breeders who compete will have more structurally sound dogs. In addition the *core four clearences*, the dog's structure will determine if it will live most of it's life comfortable with activity or not able to go and do because of structural break down. This is where those Champion titles really come in. Champions are not judged on beauty, but it is a really nice by-product. They are judged on structure, angulation, movement, etc. Your pet puppy will benefit from these attributes.

4. Temperament. I want a dog that comes from stock that has been out in the world doing something. Dogs who compete and title not only prove themselves in that venue, but also that they can handle life beyond their home. Dogs that stay at home may have great temperaments but, how do they behave away from home in stressful conditions. Dogs that compete are exposed to these stresses and succeed.

5. My vanity. Okay, it is hard to look at a golden puppy an not think what a cutie! But,_ if I have chosen to buy a puppy and not rescue_, I want my dog to be gorgeous. Call it vain, but that is what I want. I know that with parents that are proven in competition that is going to run in the line. I want things like proper coat, dark pigment, great structure, lovely top lines, fantastic headpieces, and lovely expression.

I hope this helps. So many folks who have only watched shows or see Westminster on TV only see the absolutely gorgeous dogs an come to equate them to beauty pageants. They were started an continue today as a venue in which you can evaluate your breeding stock as compared to the ideal dog of your breed.


----------



## golden_eclipse (Apr 1, 2011)

It seems that stardust is pretty active in obedience, most of her girls have at least some titles. Maybe she doesn't have any OTCH dogs, but it does show that she works with her dogs and ensure they have the proper temperament and train ability. 

Her dogs do have conformation lines as well, so I don't think she is ignoring the breed standard, just because she doesn't have an CH's on her dogs...conformation takes a certain type of person to really enjoy it. I think you could be a great golden breeder and want nothing to do with that kind of competition, as there are many other competitions goldens excel at and prove they are worthy of being bred. Of course CCA's are great to get on dogs you don't plan on showing in the conformation ring.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Based on my quick look I would agree that Stardust is active with their dogs. My preference is for "Show" dogs that can also work. It looks like Stardust is breeding for "Obedience" with the potential to show. Both are good breeding philosophies, just different. Personally I love what both Meadowpond River To The Sea (in the mom's) and Daybreak Varsity Jump (in the dad's) have produced.


----------



## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

tippykayak said:


> Hey leesooim,
> 
> I have "just" pets too, but I've learned a ton about how important titles and competition are.
> 
> ...


Well said.....:dblthumb2


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

kdowningxc said:


> It seems that stardust is pretty active in obedience, most of her girls have at least some titles. Maybe she doesn't have any OTCH dogs, *but it does show that she works with her dogs and ensure they have the proper temperament and train ability.*
> 
> Her dogs do have conformation lines as well, so I don't think she is ignoring the breed standard, just because she doesn't have an CH's on her dogs...conformation takes a certain type of person to really enjoy it. I think you could be a great golden breeder and want nothing to do with that kind of competition, as there are many other competitions goldens excel at and prove they are worthy of being bred. Of course CCA's are great to get on dogs you don't plan on showing in the conformation ring.


This sounds ideal to me and I agree 100%+ with this. 

I would not want a obedience pedigree with absolutely no conformation. 

I would not want a conformation pedigree with absolutely no obedience.

I think there should be both, and a breeder who is actually working WITH their dogs and recognizes the importance of proofing the trainability and temperament of their dogs gets extra kudos. And the fact she has put open titles on her dog means that she knows the importance of proper structure.


----------



## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

leesooim said:


> I just wanted to clarify that we did look at other breeders in the central and western NY areas (probably 8-10), and I have visited 4 of them. We just felt it might be more beneficial if we were able to find a breeder closer to home than a couple hours, but I'm getting the sense that it's not important to have easy access to the breeder via physical proximity?



If some of the breeders you feel more comfortable with are not in your immediate area then don't let distance hold you back. Now with email, fB, and smart everything you are closer then you think. The easiest start is make sure the breeding pair (I like more history too) have at least the four need valid clearances Hips, elbows, heart and up to date eyes. You also want a good relationship with your breeder you can trust. Trust with a good breeder will offer you more then sound of mind but honest help, support and advice for the life of the pup/dog. I know we have always said here "We never loose a puppy, we gain relationships" The dogs have brought me together with so many wonderful people who share the same compassion and love for the golden. I know there are breeders out their that are salesman and seem like the most wonderful people. If you do your homework don't let them convince you their is anything less then to do the right thing so you have given your puppy the best opportunity to live the longest, healthiest life they can.


----------



## leesooim (Nov 1, 2012)

Honestly, I put Starrdust in this thread specifically because they were the LAST of the 4 we actually managed to physically visit, and aside from being impressed with the breeder and her family and the area the dogs were kept, etc (and she already had all the clearances/papers ready for us to see when we got there), it all had come down between them and a breeder that was about 2 hours away that we also really liked. In my gut though, and I can't really explain why, I really feel like Starrdust "clicked" with us more, if that makes any sense. I view the fact that they're local as an added bonus, but you're right -- with the Internet and cellular phones, anyone is merely a few keystrokes or phone call away.

So far, the comments I've received from others who took a peek at some of the links I provided have been positive with good additional precautions to take, so I am feeling better and better about working with this breeder, even though no one here that has posted has had any direct experience with them.


----------



## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

That all sound like good news. I would make sure that you did see the valid up to date clearances. For example Blake does not list heart or eyes on the OFA or CERF. Besides hips and elbows which do, hearts and eyes do not need to be listed on those databases. You do need see a copy of the report from the cardiologist and ophthalmologist. The eyes have to be done every year to be valid. If they present them to you and all is good then you are in the right directions for a new puppy.


----------



## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

leesooim said:


> Honestly, I put Starrdust in this thread specifically because they were the LAST of the 4 we actually managed to physically visit, and aside from being impressed with the breeder and her family and the area the dogs were kept, etc (and she already had all the clearances/papers ready for us to see when we got there), it all had come down between them and a breeder that was about 2 hours away that we also really liked. In my gut though, and I can't really explain why, I really feel like Starrdust "clicked" with us more, if that makes any sense. I view the fact that they're local as an added bonus, but you're right -- with the Internet and cellular phones, anyone is merely a few keystrokes or phone call away.
> 
> So far, the comments I've received from others who took a peek at some of the links I provided have been positive with good additional precautions to take, so I am feeling better and better about working with this breeder, even though no one here that has posted has had any direct experience with them.


Hi leesooim,

I am wondering if you ended up getting a pup from Stardust Goldens, as I am currently in touch with them for a puppy anticipated this fall. I am feeling confident and (very very) excited so far based on the research I have done and my interactions with them so far, but it would be awesome to talk to someone who has a Stardust pup.


----------



## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

EmmaKFricke said:


> Hi leesooim,
> 
> I am wondering if you ended up getting a pup from Stardust Goldens, as I am currently in touch with them for a puppy anticipated this fall. I am feeling confident and (very very) excited so far based on the research I have done and my interactions with them so far, but it would be awesome to talk to someone who has a Stardust pup.


FYI: This is an old thread, member leesooim has not been active on the board since 4/2013.


----------

