# Life After Chemotherapy



## Duke's Momma (Mar 1, 2007)

So, Duke is done with his chemo. We opted (with the advise of the vet) to forego his fifth and final treatment because of the WBC tanker and dehydration scare yesterday. His kidneys may not survive another attack like that.

I'm feeling a little vulnerable now. Is that normal? How do you go about life and business as "not so usual" anymore but normal as we now know it.

I'm just wondering how everyone else has dealt with this. It's a similar feeling as to when my horse was at the trainers for about 6 months years ago and then I take him home. Now what?

Thanks for any input!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I have no input but will be following this thread closely. I'm so sorry you had the WBC and dehydration scare yesterday. I just read about those possible side effects and I don't like hearing any dog suffering from them. I'm going to mention Duke's experience to DH. Forgive me for asking, but how old is Duke?


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Wow, I've been thinking about this too, what will we do when Duke is through with his chemo. Will he just get stronger and stronger now and stay in remission? That's a wonderful thought. But part of me is really scared now too, kind of like holding my breath. Is it the same for you? 

Normal as you now know it. Things like this change everything, don't they. And we are hostage. 

I think about Duke everyday, Cindy. You've fought for him so hard, the chemo was a rough road. But it bought you some time with Duke and maybe now you can both begin to heal and find your new normal. A better normal. This is my prayer.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Just enjoy him!!! Extra love, kisses and walks! 

I know that is easier said than done, and I am the world's worst worry wart. Just take one day at a time, and enjoy!!


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Now you start trying to get him stronger through food and exercise, and you also realize that he may still have some "off" days. Don't anticipate and don't regret....he doesn't. Ask the onco vets for the best food recommendations that will help keep the cancer at bay while supporting his kidneys. Remember to put your worry aside (I know, almost impossible, but do it anyway) and simply treasure your time. None of us know when that time is up, but we can and will kick ourselves for not making the most of it. Do his favorite things. Do your favorite things with him. And remember to give him a big ole smooch from me and Finny!


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## Duke's Momma (Mar 1, 2007)

Dallas Gold said:


> I have no input but will be following this thread closely. I'm so sorry you had the WBC and dehydration scare yesterday. I just read about those possible side effects and I don't like hearing any dog suffering from them. I'm going to mention Duke's experience to DH. Forgive me for asking, but how old is Duke?


Duke will be 9 in April. He was diagnosed with lymphoma September, 09. Since that time he's had a chemo treatment of some sort every 3 weeks without fail. Last one was 1/12/10. 

Doxorubicin, from my understanding, is the most brutal on the dogs. He had 4 treatments of that. That said, there are some pups that never experience any side effects whatsoever. 

The biggest most worrisome side effect from day to day has been appetite loss. He lost 10# the first 3 weeks and gained probably 7 of that back. Ideally he should be about 5 pounds more than he is now but he's had alot of muscle wasting which is from the disease and the steroid. both of which are now gone so we'll build that up so he can have a swim date with Finnie in the spring. Right now just getting to the water would wear him out.

Duke has had a meriad of health issues in his short life (many of which were caused by himself *sigh*) but was healthy when stricken with this **** disease.

Good luck with what ever you choose DG. You'll be making the right decision for your guy.


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## Duke's Momma (Mar 1, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> Wow, I've been thinking about this too, what will we do when Duke is through with his chemo. Will he just get stronger and stronger now and stay in remission? That's a wonderful thought. But part of me is really scared now too, kind of like holding my breath. Is it the same for you?
> 
> Normal as you now know it. Things like this change everything, don't they. And we are hostage.
> 
> I think about Duke everyday, Cindy. You've fought for him so hard, the chemo was a rough road. But it bought you some time with Duke and maybe now you can both begin to heal and find your new normal. A better normal. This is my prayer.


Jo, I can always count on you being right there with me. I like it when you say "what will WE do..." He's got such a big family! So do all our golden babies.

So, yes - he should get stronger and stronger now that the toxins aren't being fed into his little body. The vet said he expects a rally about one month after his final treatment. And, yes I am having to remember to breathe. Since his kidneys are now more compromised we will really have to watch that. We'll know more after tomorrow's blood work. He's doing much better - even got a squeeky toy out last night. I want him to eat and he's just not yet. Not even as good (which wasn't great prior to this incident) as he was before. Does he still feel crappy from the WBC? I just don't know.

I want a new normal to settle in quickly. But, will jsut have to wait for that - gotta get over this new hump.

I gotta run to church


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## Duke's Momma (Mar 1, 2007)

Finn's Fan said:


> Now you start trying to get him stronger through food and exercise, and you also realize that he may still have some "off" days. Don't anticipate and don't regret....he doesn't. Ask the onco vets for the best food recommendations that will help keep the cancer at bay while supporting his kidneys. Remember to put your worry aside (I know, almost impossible, but do it anyway) and simply treasure your time. None of us know when that time is up, but we can and will kick ourselves for not making the most of it. Do his favorite things. Do your favorite things with him. And remember to give him a big ole smooch from me and Finny!


Cubbysan, I will do exactly that. He loves to walk and I know the fresh air is doing him good.

I don't regret, Molly. I was a little but when we get over to the other side it'll be better. What's so unsettling about all of this is the unknown. When he had his ACL surgery, we knew the outcome. The final outcome, you know?

Good idea with the food recommendations. I'm going to talk in length about him with that. I can't wait for spring. It'll be fun meeting you and Finnie.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I think part of this reaction is from your horrible scare with the dehydration and kidney problems. You knew about the chemo, cancer etc., but this surely blindsided you.

You are having to adjust your mindset to "no more chemo" and supporting his kidneys. This is a big change in the way you were thinking Thursday. I don't know how to help make it easier, but you and Duke are in my thoughts and prayers.

I hope he just moves forward and recovers from all the meds/chemo/UTI etc. and you start getting your boy back like he used to be.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Have you thought about swimming _with_ Duke and using one of those great life vests? 

I've lived almost my entire life not knowing what tomorrow will bring (healthwise). My doctor, who has been my doctor since the age of 13 said to me one day, "You've been wondering for 46 years what will go wrong." It's hard, but do your best to live in the moment ~ Tomorrow is promised to no one ~


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

"Don't anticipate and don't regret---he doesn't"

I think that statement is a beautiful truth about our pups!

Cindy, I caught up with your scare post yesterday (I always check on Duke) and could feel your fear, and mixed feelings over being 'done' with Chemo. I also remembered you saying once you were 'all about plans of attack'. 
Lacking the right words myself, I searched for some piece of prose or poetry from folks in the same boat to ease your mind and heart a bit....
and thought about it the rest of the day. You with a strong faith, me with little to none, what could I say to help?

Duke's cancer cells may be gone for good, or not. You very well know that. Now your main 'plan of attack' has been stopped. So here's my suggestion for a new one, focus on what the cancer can't do, if by chance a cell or two has survived the Doxo:










_CANCER IS SO LIMITED: It cannot cripple love; it cannot corrode faith; it cannot shatter hope; it cannot eat away peace; it cannot destroy confidence; it cannot kill friendship; it cannot shutout memories; it cannot silence courage; it cannot invade the soul; it cannot quench the spirit. _

You've got your boy by your side. Cancer or not, none of us know if we'll get a minute more from our loves, we really don't. 
You are armed with loads of information on diet, health, exercise...and you've got a team of admirers here to go after any new questions with you. 
You two aren't done!

No anticipation, no regrets...just love


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## Jazz & Jules (Feb 25, 2007)

I have no words of wisdom Cindy, or even any life altering advice, but I have hugs and prayers and good thoughts. You have me here on the west cost cherring the two of you on!


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## goldencontriever3 (Nov 7, 2008)

The first thing you do is ENJOY every moment you have with Duke. Do not let this horrible disease rob you of that! Live in the moment just like Duke does.

My best advice to you as far as treatments is to formulate a plan with Duke's oncologist. Tasha went every 2 months until she was in remission for a year and now goes every three months. We usually see our regular vet in between because of skin issues. They recommend blood work every 6 months but we choose to do it every three months for piece of mind. You are able to breath a little easier every month but it is always a part of your life.

My wish for you is many many more healthy years for you and Duke. Give him a Big hug!!


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## Meggie'sMom (Dec 24, 2007)

You've gotten fantastic advice, Cindy. I love *moverking*'s "cancer cannot..." quote. It reminded me of another legendary quote from one of my heroes:

_Cancer can take away all of my physical abilities. It cannot touch my mind, it cannot touch my heart, and it cannot touch my soul. And those three things are going to carry on forever. - Jim Valvano_

He chose to live every day like it was a joy and gift long before cancer touched his body, and then he spent the last months of his life inspiring the rest of us and establishing a foundation to support research for a cure.

As others have said, enjoy each day. We never know which will be our last. Duke may outlive us all.


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## Duke's Momma (Mar 1, 2007)

Thank you, everyone

Yes, I also like Moverking's "cancer cannot". This has been very helpful and I am not feeling quite so vulnerable.

He's actually eating better today and has drank water and we may be on the other side. (I hope so) so we can have another "plan of attack" which involves a whole new set of rules. Our new normal. It's exciting!


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## Hudson (May 18, 2005)

You and Duke have fought the battle, enjoy every day and his second chance,tell him how much you love him and I'm sure he knows he has another chance too! Big hugs to your boy, hope you can try to relax and just live in the moment ( good advice but hard to follow, its just natural to worry about our best friends.)


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## Jazz & Jules (Feb 25, 2007)

Good Luck today Dukie with your WBC!!!!!! i lobe u!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Hey Cindy,

The only advice I know is to hug your dog like today is the last day on earth. You should do it no matter what the prognosis. We can't control whether or not we'll be here tomorrow or our dogs are, but we can treat them well and live with gratitude.

As far as practical advice, I love the swimming idea. It's low impact, triggers that working mode that's so satisfying for the dog, and is great exercise. Short sessions would be key. I bet his appetite comes back now that the chemo is leaving his system.


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## Duke's Momma (Mar 1, 2007)

tippykayak said:


> Hey Cindy,
> 
> The only advice I know is to hug your dog like today is the last day on earth. You should do it no matter what the prognosis. We can't control whether or not we'll be here tomorrow or our dogs are, but we can treat them well and live with gratitude.
> 
> As far as practical advice, I love the swimming idea. It's low impact, triggers that working mode that's so satisfying for the dog, and is great exercise. Short sessions would be key. I bet his appetite comes back now that the chemo is leaving his system.


Hi, Brian! It's always nice to hear from you. I am praying his appetite comes back. Now I'm obsessing on if he's drank, how much, is it enough, why is he peeing so much when he's on the grand-daddy of all antibiotics, should I force feed water, etc., etc.,

I'm actually looking into raw feeding once his immune system rallys. Do you feed raw? I know it's controversial. But, he's really enjoying his raw steak pill pockets. It's the only thing he's excited about! I like seeing that - it makes me happy.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Duke's Momma said:


> Hi, Brian! It's always nice to hear from you. I am praying his appetite comes back. Now I'm obsessing on if he's drank, how much, is it enough, why is he peeing so much when he's on the grand-daddy of all antibiotics, should I force feed water, etc., etc.,
> 
> I'm actually looking into raw feeding once his immune system rallys. Do you feed raw? I know it's controversial. But, he's really enjoying his raw steak pill pockets. It's the only thing he's excited about! I like seeing that - it makes me happy.


I don't feed raw because I trust my vet's experience. It's a popular thing here in CT, and my vet (an ER attending and surgeon) loves to tell me horror stories about E. Coli and obstructed raw bones. It's definitely not something I'd do with an immuno-comprimised dog, even after he recovers.

Plus, the dogs so clearly thrive on the Eukanuba, I'm not sure what benefit I might be looking for by switching. They're so ridiculously shiny, and I certainly don't need any more energy out of them. 

If I might be so bold as to offer more advice, is there any way you can monitor all the things you need to monitor and then let the rest go? There are factors you can control and try to help with (monitoring what goes in and out, appetite, exercise, etc.) and things you can't control (what his body actually is doing, whether there are any cancers cells left, etc.).

I think we have this tendency to try to exert control over the uncontrollable by obsessing over what we _can_ control. It sounds like it's exhausting you through perpetual anxiety. Is there any way to take care of all the little details, and then put it all away for awhile and to just enjoy Duke as a dog? Not a sick dog, not a well dog, not a dog who will live for one more day or for a hundred more years. Just the big, warm friend in your arms for that minute or hour.

You're probably already doing that, but when you say that you're obsessing over the little things, I think it might help to take care of what you can take care of and then to let yourself off the hook for a few hours. Heck, if you can send calmer energy to him, it might benefit you both.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

tippykayak said:


> Hey Cindy,
> 
> The only advice I know is to hug your dog like today is the last day on earth. You should do it no matter what the prognosis. We can't control whether or not we'll be here tomorrow or our dogs are, but we can treat them well and live with gratitude.


Sage advice, I like that! We should hug our healthy dogs too because you never know what tomorrow will bring.


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## Duke's Momma (Mar 1, 2007)

tippykayak said:


> Plus, the dogs so clearly thrive on the Eukanuba, I'm not sure what benefit I might be looking for by switching. They're so ridiculously shiny, and I certainly don't need any more energy out of them.
> 
> If I might be so bold as to offer more advice, is there any way you can monitor all the things you need to monitor and then let the rest go? There are factors you can control and try to help with (monitoring what goes in and out, appetite, exercise, etc.) and things you can't control (what his body actually is doing, whether there are any cancers cells left, etc.).
> 
> ...


Well, and the other thought regarding the raw is his kidneys. I should just QUIT obsessing on every little thing. I wonder if Eukanuba has a kidney formula. I'm going to wait and do some more research and for the time being just get him to eat whatever he will eat for another month or so to try to get his weight back. He's lost 5# over this whole thing and I'm really glad the chemo is over. 

_"Is there any way to take care of all the little details, and then put it all away for awhile and to just enjoy Duke as a dog? Not a sick dog, not a well dog, not a dog who will live for one more day or for a hundred more years. Just the big, warm friend in your arms for that minute or hour."_

This comment touched my heart deeply and I will find a way to do that. It's just that my last 1/2 year has been encompassed with him being a chemo, immuno-suppressed, finicky, sick dog that it's hard to wrap my brain around a "new normal!" Thank you, Brian.


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## Augie's Mom (Sep 28, 2007)

You will find as you adjust to normal that with each passing day as he gets stronger and stronger you start to relax and breathe again. The insecurity that you have won't entirely disappear but if won't be in the forefront of your mind.

Like the others have said love your dog everyday because whether cancer or not you never know what tomorrow brings. Live every day to the fullest, have no regrets.

You and Duke have been through a lot what you have achieved is miraculous, enjoy your success.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Duke's Momma said:


> Well, and the other thought regarding the raw is his kidneys. I should just QUIT obsessing on every little thing. I wonder if Eukanuba has a kidney formula. I'm going to wait and do some more research and for the time being just get him to eat whatever he will eat for another month or so to try to get his weight back. He's lost 5# over this whole thing and I'm really glad the chemo is over.
> 
> _"Is there any way to take care of all the little details, and then put it all away for awhile and to just enjoy Duke as a dog? Not a sick dog, not a well dog, not a dog who will live for one more day or for a hundred more years. Just the big, warm friend in your arms for that minute or hour."_
> 
> This comment touched my heart deeply and I will find a way to do that. It's just that my last 1/2 year has been encompassed with him being a chemo, immuno-suppressed, finicky, sick dog that it's hard to wrap my brain around a "new normal!" Thank you, Brian.


I'd confer with the doc about diet so you get something that's not putting extra stress on the kidneys. Dogs are not so good at recovering from kidney failure. Something high in calcium and protein like a raw diet might be a big problem; I sincerely don't know.

Five pounds down is a lot, but given that you made it all the way through chemo with that small a weight loss, I'm betting you're in the clear in terms of his weight. 

I'm glad I can be helpful. Gratitude is the only surefire wisdom I know of. You don't want to fight for this extra time with him only to waste it worrying instead of enjoying your dog.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

tippykayak said:


> Five pounds down is a lot, but given that you made it all the way through chemo with that small a weight loss, I'm betting you're in the clear in terms of his weight.


OK, this scares me. My golden boy Barkley starts chemo on Thursday, at a lean 55 pounds post splenectomy(normally he is around 56 to 57 but has been as high as 60 in his younger days). If he loses 5 pounds he will be a walking skeleton and more than that, oh my. I guess you entice them to eat with the good fresh chicken and stuff?


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

You entice them to eat with whatever they will eat. I'm sure that everyone will kick in their suggestions if Barkley gets finicky about eating, but I've known dogs who have breezed through chemo with essentially no side effects. A good friend of mine's basset hound still walked three miles every day, never threw up, ate like she'd run a marathon and was happy as a clam. Try not to bite off trouble until it smacks you, and then smack it right back.


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## Duke's Momma (Mar 1, 2007)

Finn's Fan said:


> You entice them to eat with whatever they will eat. I'm sure that everyone will kick in their suggestions if Barkley gets finicky about eating, but I've known dogs who have breezed through chemo with essentially no side effects. A good friend of mine's basset hound still walked three miles every day, never threw up, ate like she'd run a marathon and was happy as a clam. Try not to bite off trouble until it smacks you, and then smack it right back.


That's exactly right. Don't obsess on the what'if's. Rusty has flown through his first round of chemo with NO side effects. Barkley could do the same. B - R - E - A - T - H - E ! ! ! One of the things I've learned that's so valuable is that they really do glean from your vibes. If you're stressed - they're stressed. Take each day as it comes.

Hmmmmm, that's good advice! Haven't I heard that somewhere? lol


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

They also have appetite stimulants you can give dogs during chemo if weight becomes an issue.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Dallas Gold said:


> OK, this scares me. My golden boy Barkley starts chemo on Thursday, at a lean 55 pounds post splenectomy(normally he is around 56 to 57 but has been as high as 60 in his younger days). If he loses 5 pounds he will be a walking skeleton and more than that, oh my. I guess you entice them to eat with the good fresh chicken and stuff?


As Brian stated there are things you can try to stimulate their appetite with. One is Mirtazapine which is an a drug for depression. I believe the way it works is it makes you feel good which them stimulates the appetite. (Think of a person being high and having the munchies )
Another suggestion I would make is a product that you can get over the counter by Tomlyn called Nutri-Cal. It is a paste that can be put on the roof oof the dog's mouth and they eat it by trying to get it off the roof of their mouth. It will help get some nutrition in the dog when they have no desire at all to eat ANYTHING. I feel if not for this product there is a good chance Keeper would not be here today.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Thanks Tippy and Ambika for the great information about appetite stimulants. I've got anticipation nerves going on right now and appreciate any of those types of tips. I think he'll get extra food today and tomorrow.


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