# Seperation Anxiety?



## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

Hello. I am new to the forum. Actually...I just signed up today. haha. Anyway, we just adopted a golden from the humane society about a month and a half ago. He is about 8 months old now. He is a very well behaved pup. He is house broken, knows some commands, and is in the process of going through puppy class. He is extremely mellow, and calm. It's actually pretty pathetic how lazy he is haha. But, we have a but. A very big "but". We think he has separation anxiety. He cannot be in a room or his crate, alone. He does whatever he can to get out. He's not in his crate a lot. Only a few hours a couple days a week. Let me explain what we've been through.

When we first got him, we kept him in his crate when neither of us were home (which isn't often). Well, that didn't last long because he learned out to open the door (it's a metal crate). So then we though, just leave him in the bedroom, but keep the door shut. He did fabulous for about 2 weeks, until he thought he could dig the carpet up by the door to get out. So we started putting him back in the cage, and zip tieing the locks so he couldn't open them. Well within a day he broken the plastic bottom of the cage and got out by climbing under the cage. So then we flipped the cage upside-down (cuz the bottom of the cage has bigger openings) and zip tied two wire shelves on top of the cage. There was a tiny gap where the two shelves did not come together. He chewed the zip ties off the side of the cage to get a little bit bigger gap, and squeezed out through the top. So we used about 50 zip ties, so he can't do that again. lol. I mean...he's not a dumb dog...we're just at our wits end.

The thing that worries me most though, is that he's hurting himself doing it. He's cut his paw a bit. He has 2 scratches below his eye. The front half of his nose is swollen. I mean...he does whatever it takes to get out of that cage. The latest thing, since using the 50 zip ties is he's actually detached some of the individual wires that make up the cage. I didn't want to cut them cuz i didn't want to make such sharp edges...so what did i do...zip tied them back down. 

I don't know. He only does this if he's alone. If i'm in the room, and he's locked in the cage. he just lays there. sleeps. plays with a toy. He doesn't freak out. But, as soon as i leave the room...bam...chaos.

I am going to the vet on monday. I asked the puppy teacher, and she suggested a sedative...which i really do not want to do. I found HomeoPet Anxiety Relief and wondered if anyone has tried this yet. Or if anyone else has had the same problems. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks much.


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## Katiesmommy (Sep 10, 2006)




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## Baileysmom (Aug 5, 2006)

I haven't dealt with seperation anxiety, but I know a lot of people have. I watched an episode of Dog Whisperer about it. They had the dog stay in the crate (out of sight) for a few minutes and went back and rewarded the dog and let it out. Slowly they increased the time the dog was in the crate before it got rewarded. I have heard it is common with rescues that have been kenneled. They think you are not coming back. Good luck!


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

Yes. I've read that online, and tried it. It hasn't helped. I think it might have been because we did it for 3 days while i was off work, and then the 4th day when I had to go back to work, he was in there for a few hours. Maybe we'll try it again. 

Thanks for your response.


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

We've done a couple of things that have helped with separation anxiety. 

1. We make leaving a big event, and make coming home a non-event. We use our 'excited' voices when we're getting ready to kennel our dogs, give them treats for getting into the kennel, and they have access to toys that are not allowed out of their kennel. 

2. We don't allow our dogs out of their kennels once we return until they are calm and quiet. It may require standing there a few minutes and waiting for that split second for the quiet. Then we praise heavily and open the door. 

Since he's already hurt himself, try to find a way to lock the kennel so that he cannot escape even if it means a padlock.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

I'd also consider a crate that isn't so easy for him to get out of.....


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

Brandy's Mom said:


> We've done a couple of things that have helped with separation anxiety.
> 
> 1. We make leaving a big event, and make coming home a non-event. We use our 'excited' voices when we're getting ready to kennel our dogs, give them treats for getting into the kennel, and they have access to toys that are not allowed out of their kennel.
> 
> ...



I like the idea of having "kennel toys" that aren't allowed to leave the kennel. That is a fabulous idea. I think I may try that. As for your number 2. As soon as I come into his site, he immediately sits down and patiently waits for me to cut all the zip ties lol. 

Also, an update. We have done everything to the crate that we possibly can. His nose is swollen from trying to squeeze through the little openings. But, he has now actually pulled so hard on a single piece of the wired cage, that the wire actually pull up, and detached from the cage. So when I came home, there were 2 wires just sticking straight up. Basically he's trying to make a larger opening in the bottom of the cage to get out. I have tied them back down because I'm afraid to cut them. But thank you very much for your response. I really, really like the kennel toy idea.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

RickGibbs said:


> I'd also consider a crate that isn't so easy for him to get out of.....


I'm afraid if I get a plastic crate or something, that he'll chew right through it. i mean, if he's getting through the metal, and the plastic from the bottom of the metal crate lasted about an hour, I think the plastic crate would be even easier for him. Thoughts? 

Were you thinking of something in particular when you posted this? Maybe a type of crate I'm missing?


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## Baileysmom (Aug 5, 2006)

You might want to make sure that he is exercised a lot before you leave. I have heard that at least a 45 minute walk would help. That way he is tired and doesn't have much energy to put forth "getting out'"

Another idea: Do you have a doggie day care by you? Maybe if he spent a day at doggie day care playing with other dogs, learned that you come back to get him and spent the next day very tired would help.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

UPDATE:

Bosco is not doing any better. He now has a 3 pieces of metal from the crate pulled apart. He's seriously hurting himself and I'm afraid one day I'm going to come home and he's going to have one of them stuck in him. His first cut below his eye has healed, and so has his cut on his paw, but now he has a huuuuuuge gouge right above his nose, and a cut about 1mm from his eyeball. I tried that homeopet anxiety relief, but with no success. I tried calling the vet, but she didn't return my call until a few days later. That in itself is another story (we're looking for a new vet). I don't know what else to do. I really don't want to put him on some type of sedative medicine, but I think we might have to. Also, I have to get him a new crate, because his is just DESTROYED. Does anyone have any suggestions? Preferably one that he can't break out of, and one that he wouldn't hurt himself trying to get out of?


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

Have you spoken with a behaviorist? What state do you live in, perhaps someone has a referral.


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## Baileysmom (Aug 5, 2006)

What type and how large of a crate are you using? Where do you keep his crate? Ours is a Midwest crate, is 42 inches x 28 inches and has a plastic liner, but there is metal crate under that. Do you ever feed him in his crate? I know they suggest with puppies to put their food in the crate and feed them in there when you are home. Does he ever get put in the crate when you are home? Like when you are eating dinner? You could use the crate more when you are there so that he doesn't consider it such a negative thing. The hard part with rescues is that they may associate the crate with being abandoned again, especially if they weren't fostered.

I still like the idea of taking him to doggie day care if there is one in your area. It may cost money but be worth the peace of mind when you are at work. My friend takes her dog three times a week and the other days he is so tired that he just "crashes" when she is gone because he is so tired.

Another thought, do you have a basement? If so, could you build a kennel down there?


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

Brandy's Mom said:


> Have you spoken with a behaviorist? What state do you live in, perhaps someone has a referral.


I live in Harrisburg, PA. I'm not aware of any. I will google it, but suggestions are welcome. Thanks for the response.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

Baileysmom said:


> What type and how large of a crate are you using? Where do you keep his crate? Ours is a Midwest crate, is 42 inches x 28 inches and has a plastic liner, but there is metal crate under that. Do you ever feed him in his crate? I know they suggest with puppies to put their food in the crate and feed them in there when you are home. Does he ever get put in the crate when you are home? Like when you are eating dinner? You could use the crate more when you are there so that he doesn't consider it such a negative thing. The hard part with rescues is that they may associate the crate with being abandoned again, especially if they weren't fostered.
> 
> I still like the idea of taking him to doggie day care if there is one in your area. It may cost money but be worth the peace of mind when you are at work. My friend takes her dog three times a week and the other days he is so tired that he just "crashes" when she is gone because he is so tired.
> 
> Another thought, do you have a basement? If so, could you build a kennel down there?


Yes, ours is also the 42 by 28 crate. He has more than enough space. I'm not sure of the brand, but Midwest sounds very familiar. We got it at PetSmart. It HAD the plastic liner, but he broke that to pieces in about 2 days, so there is no more liner. We put a blanket down, and he tore it to shreds. We put a puppy bed in place of that, and I came home to a bunch of fuzzies. I have never fed him in his crate. Would you suggest that? His crate is in my bedroom. He sleeps in there with me, but not in the crate. I've tried putting him in the crate to sleep, and he does fine (as long as i'm in there with him). I've tried putting him in the crate while we're home. If someone is in the room with him, he plays/sleeps in there with no problem. If we put him in there, and go in another room, he breaks out of it. We have made it a point though, to never put him in there when he misbehaves (which he only ever does when noone is home). I do not believe the dog was ever fostered. The only thing I know is that he was a stray. I've also tried the suggestion from before of labeling a toy "crate only". I've done that. At night (while i'm in the room), he'll actually go into the crate and play with his toy, but he doesn't seems to care about it when he's left in there alone. I mean, I guess that's a little progress.

We do not have a doggie day camp. At least I couldn't find one. We do have the people who will come to the house and let the dog out, but I do that anyway. And, a lot of times, when I'm at work and stuff, I will have a friend (that bosco knows) hang out at the house for a little while so he's not in there as long. 

Unfortunately, we do not have a basement

Ugh, I don't even know anymore. He's a great little guy. THIS is our ONLY problem with him.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

I just uploaded a picture of mr. bosco. Now you guys can see why I couldn't leave him at the humane society and just had to take him home


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## Baileysmom (Aug 5, 2006)

My dh started letting Bailey sleep with us. Once he did that, Bailey started not liking the crate as much anymore. I put a quick stop to that and he can now lay in bed with us for a few minutes and then off to the crate he goes until he gets a little older. I am grasping at straws because I feel for you.... Feeding him in the crate can't hurt. Perhaps you could try having him sleep in the crate at night in a different room. I did find a pet behaviorist in your area by using google. He definitely is adorable!


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

Baileysmom said:


> My dh started letting Bailey sleep with us. Once he did that, Bailey started not liking the crate as much anymore. I put a quick stop to that and he can now lay in bed with us for a few minutes and then off to the crate he goes until he gets a little older. I am grasping at straws because I feel for you.... Feeding him in the crate can't hurt. Perhaps you could try having him sleep in the crate at night in a different room. I did find a pet behaviorist in your area by using google. He definitely is adorable!


Yeah, maybe I can start putting him back in the crate to sleep at night. I just feel bad doing it. If i put the crate in another room, I'd never sleep (nor would my neighbors haha). He's not one to bark. Even if there is another dog instigating him, he just looks at him like he's nuts. But, put him in the crate,and he acts like a mad-man haha. I mean it's gotten so bad that I cancel plans because I feel so bad having to put him in the crate for an hour or so. You did find one in the area? I saw the University of Penn had 2 people. It's kind of far, but it might be worthwhile to write an e-mail or something.

Do you think when I put the food in the crate, I should sit in there with him? Because he won't even eat the food in the kitchen if he can't see me. He'll eat while i'm there, and as soon as i walk away he follows, and then when i go back he'll eat some more, and so on. Should I lock him in the crate when I feed him, or just leave the door open?


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## Baileysmom (Aug 5, 2006)

Most goldens are velcro dogs. They want to be with you 24/7. Bailey even tries to follow me into the bathroom  . I think everyone feels bad leaving them sometimes. After 8 years I still got the sad face from Boomer, either begging to go with me, or wanting me to stay home. When you have separation issues, you need to work on getting him used to being without you, even when he eats. I wouldn't stand by him when he eats. If he gets hungry, hopefully he will go back and eat it when you are in the next room. You need to shut the door when you go to the bathroom, take a shower, etc. Those might be good times for him to go into the crate. He needs to know when you leave you are coming back. Here is a website I found for behaviorists that you can check: http://www.iaabc.org/c_locator_dogs_ne.htm Hopefully there is one near you that you can contact or email. 

Keep your chin up. You were wonderful to rescue him. He already loves you and I am sure he will be worth the hard work.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

I never had this problem and I sympathize!!! It has to be so tough. I just wouldn't feel comfortable leaving him until I felt he was comfortable and at peace. It sounds like he's fully capable of hurting himself....

If it were me I'd put him the crate several times a day for short periods of time while I'm there and act non-chalant(sp?) about it. Maybe 15 minutes to start. I'd feed him in there, put water in there. Let him out only when he had a second of quietness and control. But this is dependent on the fact that he isn't totally freaking and hurting himself while your home. If he just whined and fretted thats not harmful but if he's a mad man even while you are home that's something else.

Lucky was in the crate at my convenience...when I was wanting to focus on my kids. Or when I was cooking supper for instance. When I needed to wrap presents..... 

At just over a year he has no need for it, but until then he was in and out, in and out constantly.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Oh, I see that you have put him in when you are home. I missed that. Sorry.

I'm sure you will get past it, and though its not an uncommon problem, I"m not familier with the procedure to follow. Keep us updated....great opportunity for us to learn.


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

I know this is a trying time for you! Thank you for rescuing the dog! 

Sadly most shelter dogs come with some issues, when you watch Caesar almost all his shows are with shelter dogs. 

Understanding that Goldens as Baileysmom said are literally 'velcro' dogs will help. It is an odd moment when Julie lets me out of her sight. At one time I had my Golden, Julie and 2 fosters, plus a Mama cat with kittens (5 cats total) and every last one of them would take every step I took--including to the bathroom. Worse than kids--at least kids are not excited when you do your business and want to taste it. 

Long story short--Goldens have by the very breeding made them want to be right by your side--sitting in a duck blind until you shoot etc. 

So you have a dog by his nature and breeding wants to be with his people and you have a dog that has been abandoned. 

Considering he is a shelter dog--a crate might not be the best way to go. He might need to comfort himself with your smells while you are out. 

IMHO--shelter dogs don't care for being confined-again. Just my own personal experience. Goldens are smarter than we give them credit for...

Again--THANK YOU for rescuing this dog.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

Baileysmom said:


> Most goldens are velcro dogs. They want to be with you 24/7. Bailey even tries to follow me into the bathroom  . I think everyone feels bad leaving them sometimes. After 8 years I still got the sad face from Boomer, either begging to go with me, or wanting me to stay home. When you have separation issues, you need to work on getting him used to being without you, even when he eats. I wouldn't stand by him when he eats. If he gets hungry, hopefully he will go back and eat it when you are in the next room. You need to shut the door when you go to the bathroom, take a shower, etc. Those might be good times for him to go into the crate. He needs to know when you leave you are coming back. Here is a website I found for behaviorists that you can check: International Assoc of Animal Behavior Consultans @ IAABC.org Hopefully there is one near you that you can contact or email.
> 
> Keep your chin up. You were wonderful to rescue him. He already loves you and I am sure he will be worth the hard work.


Velcro is the best word i saw on the site to describe GR's lol. He is definitely the heavy duty kind of velcro! A lot of what you (and everyone else) has been saying on here is starting to make sense. He DOES follow me into the bathroom. He sleeps on the floor while i'm showering, using the toliet, etc! I am going to have to reanalyze my entire routine to see how i can separate a little. I'm afraid if I don't stand near him while he's eating, then he just won't eat! I'll have to try it for a day or two and see how he does. I will be sure to keep you posted.

P.S. Thanks for the site. I found one in my area, and I will have to give her a call. 

A little of the subject, but does anyone's GR sleep on their back? lol My roommate and I laugh hysterically when Bosco sleeps because he sleeps on his back with limbs spread as far as they can go! haha.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

Lucky's mom said:


> Oh, I see that you have put him in when you are home. I missed that. Sorry.
> 
> I'm sure you will get past it, and though its not an uncommon problem, I"m not familier with the procedure to follow. Keep us updated....great opportunity for us to learn.


I'll be sure to keep updates on how things are going.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

njb said:


> I know this is a trying time for you! Thank you for rescuing the dog!
> 
> Sadly most shelter dogs come with some issues, when you watch Caesar almost all his shows are with shelter dogs.
> 
> ...




Considering he is a shelter dog--a crate might not be the best way to go. He might need to comfort himself with your smells while you are out. 

What are you suggesting by this? 

When he was in the crate, he tried to break out.
When he was in the bedroom, he tried to dig his way out through the carpet lol
Only this left is the run of the house, and he's not NEAR ready for that.

Golden's are much smarter then they're given credit for! You wouldn't believe how long my roommate and I would stare at the crate wondering how he got how! It sometimes took us a few days to figure it out! We have nicknamed him houdini(sp?) lol.


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## Baileysmom (Aug 5, 2006)

nc14 said:


> A little of the subject, but does anyone's GR sleep on their back? lol My roommate and I laugh hysterically when Bosco sleeps because he sleeps on his back with limbs spread as far as they can go! haha.


Yes! They are so funny when they sleep on their backs. You wouldn't think it was comfortable, but I guess it must be.


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

IMHO he breaks out of the crate and digs out of the bedroom to be with you. Goldens are velcro dogs by nature and he will be even more so because he is also a shelter dog. 

My own personal way of dealing with it would be just to let him run the house and if I did not want to pay attention to him, I would just not look at him or give him any positive attention. If he wants to lay at your feet, let him. If you are not ready to give him affection--just let him lay there until you are. 

Dogs are pack animals--and when they are separated from the pack they feel punished. It is more so with a dog with separation issues already. 

Should we call C easer for you? I would LOVE to see someone I know on TV.


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## goldenstaples (Apr 3, 2006)

yeah somebody call Cesar, this definitely sounds like a job he would like, a real challenge! He especially seems to like helping rescue dogs!! (Maybe we could get the forum mentioned?!)First thing he is going to ask though is how much are you walking the dog? This case sounds a little familar to Marley in the book Marley and me.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

goldenstaples said:


> yeah somebody call Cesar, this definitely sounds like a job he would like, a real challenge! He especially seems to like helping rescue dogs!! (Maybe we could get the forum mentioned?!)First thing he is going to ask though is how much are you walking the dog? This case sounds a little familar to Marley in the book Marley and me.


It hard to say an amount of time I walk him. I don't want to under/over estimate. I will say though, that we have two tennis courts in one fenced area. We take him up there alot to play fetch and run free. We're usually up there for about a 1/2 hour each time (sometimes longer if he's really having fun). I think that does more for him than walking. Like i said a while back though is that I work a very odd schedule, and I only work 3 days one week and 4 days next week, 3 days, 4 days. And the 4 day week is 2 at the begining of the week and 2 at the end of the week. Those are the days he's in the crate the longest.


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

I still think walking him would do more good. Free time is great--but long walks with you are better for many reasons.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

ANOTHER UPDATE:

I just got home from work a little bit ago, and guess who escaped from his cage again! This time he chewed every zip tie i had around the door of the cage and opened the cage. Also today, when I went to put him in, the bottom of the cage door is now impossible to close. He also has another pretty bad cut right below his eye. It actually even looks like he damaged the bottom of his EYE BALL! I'm going to the vet tomorrow morning to get that checked out. A friend of mine just recommended a new place for us to go since we had a problem with the first vet. 

I'm just going to state that I was in tears today when I came home and saw him. (I'm a female...so it's okay haha). Pretty much when I saw his face. He knew he was bad. He just laid down when he saw me. But his eye and his nose. It makes me want to cry! 

I also didn't have my bedroom door shut all the way, so he didn't think he was so confined. Also, because i never thought he'd get out. So he had the run of the house. The only thing he did was got into the trash. Didn't touch the christmas decorations; didn't touch the glass decorations along the window (floor to ceiling windows); didn't chew any couches/furniture/pillows; NOTHING. Just the trash. He did get at the carpet in the bedroom a little bit, but that's the same carpet he already got at, and he just basically was playing with the padding that is under it that was already exposed. I mean, I can deal with the trash compared to what could've happened. 

I am going to take a picture of his face and post it on my profile. Maybe I'm just over-exaggerating, but I am going to the vet first thing tomorrow morning. I will take some pictures when I'm done with this post, and post them immediately. You guys have been so helpful, and I think you should see what he's doing to himself. Feel free to take a look. This is what I have to see everytime I come home. I have to "inspect" him every time I come home from leaving the house to go anyway. Actually...I will also get some picture of his crate.

I think we're also going to goto the pet store tomorrow. I am off the next 2 days. I think I'm going to try and get him a new crate. A wire crate (like he has) but a thicker gauge wire, and start over. Maybe a new crate will help? No idea, but anythings worth a shot. A new "crate" toy to go with. We'll do the 15 minute thingy again. Start over like we just got him. I'm out of options. Hopefully this will help. 

FYI When I came home and saw he got out again, I logged right onto this site. The trash is still everywhere. Guess where Bosco is...yup, laying down right under my chair.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

njb said:


> I still think walking him would do more good. Free time is great--but long walks with you are better for many reasons.


That's interesting. Actually makes sense cuz it's like he's by my side. Maybe instead of letting him run free and get the energy out that way, we'll take longer walks.


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

Think about this for just a second--you have tried everything you know--why not just try next time to leave him out of the crate when you leave. Leave just for a short time and see what happens. Try to leave him a tasty bone to chew on when you do. 

See what happens. Since he did not tear up your house this time maybe he just really really hates being confined. If your only gone for a short time you can assess any damage. Might want to move the trash onto the porch when you do leave though.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

njb said:


> Think about this for just a second--you have tried everything you know--why not just try next time to leave him out of the crate when you leave. Leave just for a short time and see what happens. Try to leave him a tasty bone to chew on when you do.
> 
> See what happens. Since he did not tear up your house this time maybe he just really really hates being confined. If your only gone for a short time you can assess any damage. Might want to move the trash onto the porch when you do leave though.


Mainly because a lot of our furniture is not cheap what-so-ever. I don't wanna come home to my investments being destroyed. Granted he hasn't done anything yet, but yet is the key word. 

When we first got him he broke out of the day the first/second day. For about 2-3 weeks after that, we just left him in the bedroom. He did fine in there for while, but after a while is when the carpet incident happened. That's when we started the crate again. This may have been a very bad idea on my part now that I look back at it, but I never had a dog that didn't like his crate. Anyway, once we started putting him back in the crate, he kept escaping, and the carpet started to get worse every time he got out, because every time he got out, he tried to dig out through the door. Maybe I over-reacting, but who's to say after 2-3 of having the run of the house, he's not going to dig up the carpet at the front door.

Basically, he's not trained yet to be left alone in the house. As much as I'd love to test it, I just can't do it.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

Ok so my camera broke, and I just realized I can only have one profile picture. So here's the pictures
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c254/nchecchi/IMG_0107.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c254/nchecchi/IMG_0106.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c254/nchecchi/IMG_0105.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c254/nchecchi/IMG_0103.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c254/nchecchi/IMG_0102.jpg


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

These came out worse than I thought...but you get the point.


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

My point is the dog is kennel crazed--and you said other than eating trash the dog did not harm to your home. The dog is harming itself trying to get out of the crate, so why not give it 30 minutes without out you outside the crate? Since the 'crate' seems to be the problem. You have no problems otherwise correct? 

I know most folks here are 'crate' people --I am not. I will spare everyone my feeling on the matter.


Rescue dogs are not like puppies you buy from anyone that will sell them to you--they come with issues. 

If it gets too much for you I am sure there is someone on this forum who will take the dog--this forum is filled with wonderful people.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Why not gate him in your kitchen... or bathroom....... this way hes not trying to hurt himself..... What about Doggy day camp or something in those lines... so hes not stuck in a crate and hes having fun while your gone.....


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

njb said:


> My point is the dog is kennel crazed--and you said other than eating trash the dog did not harm to your home. The dog is harming itself trying to get out of the crate, so why not give it 30 minutes without out you outside the crate? Since the 'crate' seems to be the problem. You have no problems otherwise correct?
> 
> I know most folks here are 'crate' people --I am not. I will spare everyone my feeling on the matter.
> 
> ...



see that's the thing. I don't think the "crate" is the problem. If I'm in the room while he's in the crate, he's fine. He plays with his toys, drinks his water, sleeps, etc. It's when I'm not in the room. For example, if I leave him in the room and shut the door, he tries to break out through the door. It's not so much the crate as it is someone not being with him. I guess what I'm trying to say is, no matter where he is, whether it be in the crate, in a room, or in the house, he's going to freak out unless someone is there with him.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

Maggies mom said:


> Why not gate him in your kitchen... or bathroom....... this way hes not trying to hurt himself..... What about Doggy day camp or something in those lines... so hes not stuck in a crate and hes having fun while your gone.....


I posted in a previous post that there are not any doggy day camps around. I've looked. I know either pet smart or super petz has them (I can't remember which one) but they don't have it in our area. They do have the people who come to the house to let him out and stuff, but I, my roommate, and a lot of friends stop by throughout the day to let him out and play for a little, so why have a stranger come when we're doing it.

Our bathroom is pretty small and the washer/dryer unit is in there along with chemicals. As in chemicals I mean like cleaning supplies under the sink, tolietries, laundry soap, etc. He's already gotten the cabnet doors open in the kitchen, and we have very similiar ones in the bathroom. That kind of makes me nervous. I guess we could try gateing him in the kitchen, but sorta the same thing. Do you think gateing him in a specific area of the house is any better? Yeah, he wouldn't be hurting himself, but I dunno, I think he'd find something to get into.

Also, I'm very appreciative of all suggestions that everyone has given. His obedience school teacher suggested seditives, which I do not want to do. Yeah, he probably won't hurt himself that way, but it doesn't actually fix the problem. I guess I'm more concerned with trying to get him over this anxiety he's feeling then just trying to find ways around it. I'd like to fix the problem, not bypass it.


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

You have 2 things to remember 1st--this guy is still a puppy and is going to act like a puppy, and 2nd with any rescue dogs it takes a couple months for them to adjust. 

It might be worth considering if you have any friends with dogs to arrange play date days with them for when you have to work, you could trade. I am sure if he was busy playing with another dog he would not be getting into stuff. 

He is doing all this because you ARE his security right now. Dogs like people all have different personalities and some are just more dependent by nature. 

You might actually want to consider a second dog. Older-not puppy- but still young enough to want to play.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

njb said:


> You have 2 things to remember 1st--this guy is still a puppy and is going to act like a puppy, and 2nd with any rescue dogs it takes a couple months for them to adjust.
> 
> It might be worth considering if you have any friends with dogs to arrange play date days with them for when you have to work, you could trade. I am sure if he was busy playing with another dog he would not be getting into stuff.
> 
> ...



I've actually been considering that for the last few weeks. Thanks for the reassurance.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

My Maggie has anxiety....she is very very active and never stops..... the best thing we did was got another golden for her to play with..... he was a rescue and older than her(4 months older)..... there are the best of friends..... they do get into things...but more less there sock thieves or shoes are another favorite......But they don't eat my carpet or furniture.....


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## LaurJen (Aug 10, 2006)

Oops, nevermind  Didn't see page two of these posts; responded to an earlier one.


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## Bizzimomx2 (Nov 12, 2006)

If he's housebroken, why not leave him with the run of the house, lots of toys w/treats in them so when he finds one he's busy trying to get the treats out and not destory the house, also leave music or TV on.


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## Oralia Schatzman (Jun 12, 2006)

Bosco looks like a sweet boy but his sounds like a more extreme case of separation anxiety than Bentley suffers. His has lessened somewhat with time and a combination of the things folks have already mentioned: 30-40 minute walks before leaving, mild sedatives (Rescue Remedy and Benadryl) and no-big-deal comings and goings (plus a treat once he settles down on his bed). Once he developed a comfort level with us and our routine, his safe world expanded from his crate to a limited area of the loft to the entire place. If there are no doggie daycares in your area, you might check Craigslist for sitters but be sure that they can provide references. Or, are there any trustworthy neighbors who could check in on him, spend a limited amount of time so that he is reassured that people do leave but that they also reappear? This must be agonizing for you but good luck!


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

Maggies mom said:


> My Maggie has anxiety....she is very very active and never stops..... the best thing we did was got another golden for her to play with..... he was a rescue and older than her(4 months older)..... there are the best of friends..... they do get into things...but more less there sock thieves or shoes are another favorite......But they don't eat my carpet or furniture.....


Yeah, like I said in the last post, I have been considering that. I just need to weigh out if I'm ready to take that step.:thinking: 

Bosco also loooooooves shoes LOL


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

Bizzimomx2 said:


> If he's housebroken, why not leave him with the run of the house, lots of toys w/treats in them so when he finds one he's busy trying to get the treats out and not destory the house, also leave music or TV on.


I am very leary about doing that. He's been okay on the days he breaks out of the crate, but I really don't think he, nor I, am ready for that. I leave animal planet on while he's in the crate. He loves to watch the other animals.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

Oralia Schatzman said:


> Bosco looks like a sweet boy but his sounds like a more extreme case of separation anxiety than Bentley suffers. His has lessened somewhat with time and a combination of the things folks have already mentioned: 30-40 minute walks before leaving, mild sedatives (Rescue Remedy and Benadryl) and no-big-deal comings and goings (plus a treat once he settles down on his bed). Once he developed a comfort level with us and our routine, his safe world expanded from his crate to a limited area of the loft to the entire place. If there are no doggie daycares in your area, you might check Craigslist for sitters but be sure that they can provide references. Or, are there any trustworthy neighbors who could check in on him, spend a limited amount of time so that he is reassured that people do leave but that they also reappear? This must be agonizing for you but good luck!


The vet actually mentioned today about bebadryl! I wish I would've thought of that! I'm going to try it though. I do, do the no-big-deal coming and goings, but I have a hard time judging when to give him the treat. When I put him in his crate to leave, he just sits there and looks at me (no barking, no bitting the wires, etc), then I leave. When I watched the video back, he barks for about 25 minutes after I leave then stops (barking was never an issue with him). When I come home (if he's still in the crate)...as soon as he sees me, he sits and looks at me while I'm cutting off the zip ties. He doesn't bark or try to get out. Once they're all cut off, he jets to the door so he can go outside and pee. I didn't want to give him the treat as soon as he sees me because I don't want to make it a big deal, but when I give him the treat after he pees, I'm sure he thinks it's because he peed outside. Now when I come home and he's out of his crate, I don't give him a treat. Maybe I should? But still, as soon as he sees me, he just lays down and stares at me because he knows he was bad.

I do have friends that he knows and likes stop by throughout the day. There are some days where friends spend the night here and are here with him until sometimes 2pm while i'm at work. I don't know...maybe all the inconsistancy is confusing to him? We were at the vet today, and we came up with some other options too. I'm going to post about then when I'm done responding to everyone else.

Thanks for the info!


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

Well, we went to the vet today. She said the obvious, which is he has a severe case of seperation anxiety, and she gave me a lot of documentation on it. I'll probably read though some of it tonight. She also said his cuts are alright and none of them are infected or anything. She prescribed him some medicine. It's called Clomipramine. We are to give it to him twice a day. I haven't gotten a chance to research it yet, bosco had a busy day and we just got home a little while ago. The vet also said the medicine takes about 2 weeks to kick in, and for the first 2 weeks to give him benedryl to make him sleepy. Man, I wish I would've thought of that! So we'll see how this goes. I really didn't want to put him on medicine, but I'll trust the vet's decision. Maybe if he's relaxed and not so worried about getting out for the next few weeks, his training might be more productive. Besides that, he's very healthy.

After the vet appt. he got a bath and cut. He always looks so handsome after that! If I can get my camera to work, I'll post a new picture. Anyway, while he was getting that done, I did some creative thinking at petsmart. We decided not to get another wire crate. They only have the one size gauge crates there, and I'm not about to have him hurt himself more or buy a new crate every two months, sooooo here is what we came up with.

We got the doggie barrier things. Those gates to block off a doorway, you know. Like you would use for a child at the top of the stairs. I think you know what i mean. Anyway, we decided to keep him in the kitchen. We're going to stack the two gates on top of each other so he can't jump over them. They're solid plastic. I also sprayed them with the bitter apple stuff so maybe that will keep him from chewing on it. It's going to be a pain to take the stuff out of the kitchen (decorations and stuff) everytime we put him in there, but hey, it's worth a shot. I'm going out tomorrow to find something to keep the cabnit doors shut. I'm thinking maybe like a velcro or something. We'll see. I'm off all day again tomorrow, so we'll go through the 15 minute thing again for the kitchen. I'll keep you all up to date on how it works out! 

Thanks again for all the info, advice, suggestions, and support!!!!


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## LaurJen (Aug 10, 2006)

nc14 said:


> I'm going out tomorrow to find something to keep the cabnit doors shut. I'm thinking maybe like a velcro or something. We'll see. !!!



Just look in the baby section. They make all sorts of products to baby proof/ puppy proof your house. When my kids were little, we installed locks on the inside of cabinets, that could only be opened with a magnetic key. Once they were older, you could just move a little lever to keep the cabinets unlocked. Let me see if I can find a link....

eToys: Safety 1st: Magnetic Tot Lock 4-Lock Set from Safety First

Here's a link to other types:

Amazon.com: Cabinet Locks & Straps - Safety: Baby: Cabinet Safety Locks, Cabinet Safety Straps & More


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

If you have something 'disposable' like a towel with your scent on it try leaving that with him too at first. It can't hurt--just don't give him your best sweater. 

How about a cat for him to chase? LOL that works around here....


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

njb said:


> If you have something 'disposable' like a towel with your scent on it try leaving that with him too at first. It can't hurt--just don't give him your best sweater.
> 
> How about a cat for him to chase? LOL that works around here....


haha i tried the towel thing before...didn't seem to matter. As far as the cat goes...i'm really not a big fan of them. Maybe a toy cat that runs around the house...do they make those? haha

Well, I tried gating him in the kitchen today unsuccessfully. lol. Again, he did not destroy anything. I'm at a loss. My best friend suggested what everyone else has...give him the run of the house. I think I might try it. I mean, he basically lives here, and knows how much is invested in the funiture, nic-nacs, area rugs, etc, and for him to suggest that makes me firmly believe that bosco will be okay with the run of the house.

I work wed.-fri this week, but he has recently lost his job, so he is going to stop in a couple times while I'm at work and check on things, and play with him for a bit. I have my fingers crossed:crossfing . 

P.S. Bosco really does not like his medicine! Has anyone ever tried the gravy you put on the food? I think I might get that stuff and mix it with his medicine.


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

I would suggest that if you have nick nacks that are really valuable--put them up for now--just like with toddlers. 

It would have been so much easier for you if the medicine was a pill. You might try canned cat food with the medicine--mix it up real good--I have done that before to give dogs no pill medicine. Every dog I ever have ever met LOVES canned cat food.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

njb said:


> I would suggest that if you have nick nacks that are really valuable--put them up for now--just like with toddlers.
> 
> It would have been so much easier for you if the medicine was a pill. You might try canned cat food with the medicine--mix it up real good--I have done that before to give dogs no pill medicine. Every dog I ever have ever met LOVES canned cat food.


actually it is a capsule. I've been dumping the powder out to make it easier. Turns out that's probably not the easiest way lol. I'll probably just give him the entire capsule. :yuck:


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## Baileysmom (Aug 5, 2006)

My dogs always liked pills wrapped in cheese, liversausage, peanutbutter, or there are even treats called pill pockets. Makes giving medicine a whole lot easier!


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

wrap the pill in a piece of cheap sliced cheese(not the whole slice)--or liverwurst--will be a breeze to get the meds down.

Oh--I was serious when I said start him off with like 30 minute sessions alone with the run of the house.--if your not working today-- come and go often--you might even want to sit outside if possible so you can hear what he is up too.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

njb said:


> wrap the pill in a piece of cheap sliced cheese(not the whole slice)--or liverwurst--will be a breeze to get the meds down.
> 
> Oh--I was serious when I said start him off with like 30 minute sessions alone with the run of the house.--if your not working today-- come and go often--you might even want to sit outside if possible so you can hear what he is up too.


I am working today, but that's ok. He was home alone for about 5 hours. A friend has stopped over to play with him for a bit. He called and said the only thing he did was poop. He didn't get into ANYTHING. No trash, no shoes, no furniture, no pee, NOTHING. I'm so proud of him. I hope it stays this way.:crossfing I can deal with an occasional poop!


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

I am so happy for both of you! I am sure we all are! Goldens in particular want to be part of the family are are just miserable when they can't be--hang in there-your going to have a great dog!


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## Baileysmom (Aug 5, 2006)

When searching the rescue site in Texas, I found this article. I thought you might find it interesting.....

http://grrh.org/17Training/SPCA Info/ReducingSeparationAnxiety.pdf


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

That is a really good article Bailelysmom---I had read it before and forgotten. The Human society has quite a few good articles available to the public.


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

Goldens are very intuitive. I don't doubt for a second that he knows he's got to earn your trust in order to stay out of his kennel. I'm thrilled that he was such a good boy!


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

Baileysmom said:


> When searching the rescue site in Texas, I found this article. I thought you might find it interesting.....
> 
> http://grrh.org/17Training/SPCA Info/ReducingSeparationAnxiety.pdf


YES! very good article! thanks much


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## mainegirl (May 2, 2005)

I don't know if anyone mentioned this..... but my 14 y.o golden (who died this summer) was claustrophobic.. She would freak in a crate, to the point of bending the bars back. I got so afraid of her strangling herself with her collar and the crate that we stopped using the crate. for 13 years she had pretty much free roam. She behaved herself pretty well, i guess to her anything was better than being crated.

beth, moose, angel and
sandy at the bridge


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

Another thought just came to me. Our trainer mentioned the other day that she uses the underground fencing equipment INDOORS to teach her dogs to stay out of certain parts of her house. I didn't pursue the discussion with her, or ask her how she accomplished it. But her dogs know absolutely not to go into specific rooms.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

mainegirl said:


> I don't know if anyone mentioned this..... but my 14 y.o golden (who died this summer) was claustrophobic.. She would freak in a crate, to the point of bending the bars back. I got so afraid of her strangling herself with her collar and the crate that we stopped using the crate. for 13 years she had pretty much free roam. She behaved herself pretty well, i guess to her anything was better than being crated.
> 
> beth, moose, angel and
> sandy at the bridge


I wondered the same thing. The only reason I didn't think that could be it is because I tried putting him in the crate to sleep (to get him used to it) and he was fine. I didn't zip tie it or anything, just locked the top latch. As long as I was in the room with him...he never tried to break out.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

Brandy's Mom said:


> Another thought just came to me. Our trainer mentioned the other day that she uses the underground fencing equipment INDOORS to teach her dogs to stay out of certain parts of her house. I didn't pursue the discussion with her, or ask her how she accomplished it. But her dogs know absolutely not to go into specific rooms.


Yeah, I also considered this. not so much for specific rooms (i don't care what rooms he gets into) but more for furniture. Like run it around the couches/entertainment center/etc. That would take a long time and would be very tedious. If he does start to get into stuff...I might try the bitter apple spray before I take it that far.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

Brandy's Mom said:


> Another thought just came to me. Our trainer mentioned the other day that she uses the underground fencing equipment INDOORS to teach her dogs to stay out of certain parts of her house. I didn't pursue the discussion with her, or ask her how she accomplished it. But her dogs know absolutely not to go into specific rooms.


Yeah, I also considered this. not so much for specific rooms (i don't care what rooms he gets into) but more for furniture. Like run it around the couches/entertainment center/etc. That would take a long time and would be very tedious. If he does start to get into stuff...I might try the bitter apple spray before I take it that far. Does anyone know how well that stuff works? I read some reviews on it, and it seemed to have gotten mixed opinions.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

I'm at work again today. My friend, Jamie (i'm tired of writing my friend...so now you know his name haha), check on him around 11:30 again. He's still there actually. He said he did really well again today. He got into the trash this time, and peed a little bit, but besides that, he was fine. YEAY!!! I think I'm going to go get a new trashcan. One that locks. That'll solve that problem LOL. But hey! At least I'm not the one who's been having to clean it up haha


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

Even our first golden, who was very trustworthy and non-destructive, couldn't resist trashcans. We solved the problem by buying metal trashcans with lids for each room. 

The Bitter Apple works with most dogs. Unfortunately, some grow to like the taste.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

Brandy's Mom said:


> Even our first golden, who was very trustworthy and non-destructive, couldn't resist trashcans. We solved the problem by buying metal trashcans with lids for each room.
> 
> The Bitter Apple works with most dogs. Unfortunately, some grow to like the taste.


HAHAHAHA this IS metal trashcan with a plastic removable inside. It also has a lid! lol I think I need a lock, or possibly a nice wooden one with a heavy lid! lol


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

Just put the trash can outside for now--use Walmart bags (or where ever you shop) in the house. I keep mine in the sink for safe keeping when it is a problem. 

What this means is that you have VERY smart dog--who really really wants to be with you. Again--sometimes dumb dogs (like people) are easier to live with, but LOL--this is NOT your lot. 

When you have a dog smart enough to hide the turkey carcass in the dryer AND shut the door for safe keeping we can talk... 

I often think my dog is smarter than I am.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

njb said:


> Just put the trash can outside for now--use Walmart bags (or where ever you shop) in the house. I keep mine in the sink for safe keeping when it is a problem.
> 
> What this means is that you have VERY smart dog--who really really wants to be with you. Again--sometimes dumb dogs (like people) are easier to live with, but LOL--this is NOT your lot.
> 
> ...


oh my goodness! that is hilarious! I think he is smarter than me too! I resorted to video taping him when he was in his crate not only to see what he was doing when i was gone, but also because there were many times my roommate and I could NOT for the life of us figure out how he got out! It was ridiculous! hahaha.

They're definitely fun though! Smart or dumb...it gives them their personality and gives me tooooons of laughs.


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

I have found that Tai hotsauce with the Rooster on the front of the bottle much better than bitter apple. I have in fact, (no bad jokes here--I am from the south-taken to calling it Nana's **** Be Gone) Will have to tell that story sometime. Long story short--you can jump farther and faster than you think you can when a baby **** grabs your hair while you are in the shower....one squirt of 'Nana's **** be gone' and they were...


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

Well, I've now decided that rather than confining Bosco in the kitchen and clearing everything out of it, I've just gated him OUT of the kitchen. It seem sto be working. The biggest problem we're having right now is the pee and the poop. I got him puppy pads yesterday. Hopefully, he'll know what to do with them! He also got into the bathroom on Friday, and got a 4 pack of TP. I didn't get to see it as I wasn't the first one home, but apparently it was tore up throughout the place. I guess he had a lot of fun with it and stepped in his poop...so you know what that leads too LOL. Besides that, he's been doing pretty well!


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

Oh I have first hand experience with TP eating dogs---I made the mistake of not shutting the closet door one night AND had just bought a CASE of TP---

As far as the pooh thing--I would not leave food down until he gets it. Hang in there!


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

Well, I've now decided that rather than confining Bosco in the kitchen and clearing everything out of it, I've just gated him OUT of the kitchen. It seem sto be working. The biggest problem we're having right now is the pee and the poop. I got him puppy pads yesterday. Hopefully, he'll know what to do with them! He also got into the bathroom on Friday, and got a 4 pack of TP. I didn't get to see it as I wasn't the first one home, but apparently it was tore up throughout the place. I guess he had a lot of fun with it and stepped in his poop...so you know what that leads too LOL. Besides that, he's been doing pretty well!


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

So happy that he's doing better. Sometimes with goldens, it's a little trial and error. Too bad someone didn't capture that toilet paper scene on film.


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## nc14 (Nov 18, 2006)

Bosco is doing better each day. We're kind of getting in some sort of a routine. It's very hard to do with my schedule...but we're getting there. He started to get at things (an area rug, a snowman decoration) little by little, although I only think the snowman he did purposely. We still come home to poop, but hopefully he'll get over that soon. He's also getting better at some commands.

We no longer put up the gate to block him from the kitchen. He got over it easily, so what's the point? lol. Anyway, before I leave now, he knows I fill his kong and other stuffer toy with a little peanut butter, I pull all his other toys out, and I give him a beef flavored rawhide. I then put my jacket on at look at him. He does "sit-stay" until I walk out the door, then I'm sure he goes buck wild haha. I also give him his medicine, and a benedryll just in case! After this week, he'll only be getting the medicine though.


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

That is such great news! These guys are so smart. I'm so glad it's working out. Now you'll have lots of advice to pass along to the next person who has similar issues.


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