# Help. Tucker has a SAS.



## ask (May 3, 2009)

This is my first post, sorry if it is long. I am hoping some of you can provide some advice, wisdom or anything else you think would help.

I rescued this pup about a month ago. He is two. Spent his first 22 months in a puppy mill somewhere. A family adopted him and gave him back after a month. Now he is mine for good and he has a wonderful home here. We love him so much.

Nothing on the paperwork from the rescue indicated any abnormalities. I would think they would have noticed a murmur, and perhaps they did, but they sure didn't tell me. I suppose it doesn't really matter, I would have taken him anyway. A trip to the vet last week for a general checkup revealed the murmur and he was scheduled for an echo later this week.

So after puppyproofing my house, Tucker still managed to ingest something (we think a washcloth) this weekend, had an obstruction, and had surgery this morning. It went well, he is resting comfortably. In the process, I had the echo performed and they give it a 4 on the 6 scale, and I believe a 72 on the pressure gradient - just below severe.

He will be going on beta blockers and we will closely watch his weight. I've also seen references to the BARF diet, I'm assuming this diet helps keep weight in control while still providing all the nutrients that he needs. He doesn't like going for walks and maybe this is the reason why, but he still needs some sort of exercise. But of course I'm not going to force it.

So I guess what I'm asking here is if anyone has any advice, suggestions for his daily routine, pearls of wisdom, or maybe you even know a specialist in the Denver area who you really trust. Anything helps.

thanks all for listening.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

Tucker is beautiful. Thank you so much for rescuing him. I have no experience with SAS, but I know there are other forum members who do, so I'm sure you will get some good suggestions.


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## goldencontriever3 (Nov 7, 2008)

Sorry I have no advice for you but want to thank you for rescuing Tucker and giving him a loving home. He is a handsome dog.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

We have several members here who are dealing with dogs with SAS, and I am sure they will chime in before long.

I am so sorry that you are having to go through this, but what a lucky boy Tucker is to have been adopted by you.


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

Welcome to the forum. Your Tucker is a handsome boy. Thanks for giving him his forever home. I have no advice on the murmur but know many dogs lead rich full lives with heart murmurs. Hope you find more info here.


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## Romeo1 (Apr 19, 2008)

Thanks for rescuing him. He is one gorgeous pup. You're in the right place because there are people here who are experts on everything Golden Retriever.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

My Cruiser has a grade 3/6 left basilar systolic murmur,has had it since he was 3 months old. The echocardiograph was done at 6 months old and the findings included mild subaortic stenosis(sas) and regurgitation at the aortic valve. His pressure gradients across the stenosis was less than 35mm which is very mild. He is on No meds and lives a normal life with my other goldens. I also have a foster pup who is a grade 5/6, more to the 6 side. Maui is on beta blockers and basically was given less than a year to live, and they said he could defie the odds and live till hes 3. They both live a very normal dog life and I dont put any restrictions on them. I do keep them on the slender side, to keep them from being over weight and adding stress to there heart. They eat Taste of Wild with added green beans and carrots and fruits.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

How awful Tucker's early life was and how wonderful for him that you found him. He is gorgeous and looks like a happy fellow.
I have not dealt with a heart murmur so I have no advice or pearls of wisdom. I just wanted to tell how gorgeous he is and wish you well.
I do think that coming through the surgery well is a good sign. I hope he gets better quickly and things get easier for you both.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

First off welcome! Secondly, my Tinkerbell will be 3 on June 4. At 9 weeks she was diagnosed with a heart murmur suspected SAS. AT 6 months it was confirmed with an echo. Her murmur is rated 4.5 -5 on the scale of 1-6. The pressure gradient was 126. The cardiologist offered to put her down for us right then.  I'm so glad we said no. 

She is on Beta blockers costs me $4 a month at Walmart. I feed her a healthy diet, she had gained some weight and had gotten up to about 85 pounds we have been feeding her Wellness Core reduced fat for just over a year and she has dropped down to 66 pounds. She also gets very few dog treats adn those she does are more on the "natural side" and are small. She does however get lots of fruits and veggies. 

I was told not to let her run, jump, get excited etc. but she was a 6 month old puppy! So she runs, plays fetch, etc when she wants to as long as she wants to. We take short walks when she wants them. But as a general rule does not have quite the energy or stamina of the typical golden her age, but she doesn't appear sick just laid back. Sometimes it even comes in handy, when it is 5 degrees out and windy, we don't have to walk 2 miles to wear off energy. LOL

All the research I have found has said that once she reaches the age of 3, the chances of her living a long life are actually very good. The fact that Tucker has made it to the age of 2 (in less than ideal situations) is a very good sign that he will also be fine. It is amazing what good meds, a good food and tons of love will do.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Also the fact that he was able to be put under anesthestic and come out of it just fine is a huge positive sign. They don't like to use anesthesia on dog's with heart murmurs unless necessary because of the increased risks. That he came thru just fine tells you a lot about his health.


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Ask, I'm assuming you didn't get Tucker from Golden Retriever Rescue of the Rockies because they do an incredible job of evaluating medical problems. If you did get him from there, you should contact the president; she'll get him in to see the cardiologist they use. There is a GRRR youngster who's a permanent foster because he's got SAS. Go to www.goldenrescue.com and see if you can find Mogley's blog. Or better yet, call GRRR at 303-279-2400 or fax them at 303-279-6591. I'm certain there's a particular cardiologist who they take all the SAS pups to. Good luck and thank you for adopting Tucker. No matter how long a life he's going to lead, he's got a loving home....no more horrible mill life....and that's just the best!


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## desilu (Nov 2, 2006)

Finn's Fan said:


> Ask, I'm assuming you didn't get Tucker from Golden Retriever Rescue of the Rockies because they do an incredible job of evaluating medical problems. If you did get him from there, you should contact the president; she'll get him in to see the cardiologist they use. There is a GRRR youngster who's a permanent foster because he's got SAS. Go to www.goldenrescue.com and see if you can find Mogley's blog. Or better yet, call GRRR at 303-279-2400 or fax them at 303-279-6591. I'm certain there's a particular cardiologist who they take all the SAS pups to. Good luck and thank you for adopting Tucker. No matter how long a life he's going to lead, he's got a loving home....no more horrible mill life....and that's just the best!


Actually, Mogley is a failed foster.  He was adopted by his foster family.

I have no experience with SAS. I just wanted to say thank you for rescuing your boy. I hope you have many wonderful years together.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Oh, he's beautiful. Thank you so much for rescuing him and giving him his forever home. Our springer, Cody we adopted knowing he had hemolytic anemia and probably would not live long. However, that was almost 3 years ago. He's been off meds for over 2 years and is such a special, special boy. I believe these "special needs" puppers know that they've been saved and are so very loving and blessed. Again, thank you for giving him the love he deserves.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Welcome to the forum,
I dont have any advice for you except that maybe you can find some places to take him swimming. It will help keep his weight down and wont put as much stress on him and will help to keep him cool while exercising. I thought of Cruiser,Maui and Tinkerbell when I read your post, so I am glad they weighed in. 
Bless you for rescuing and trying to find out all you can to help him live a long and loving life. I can see why you fell in love with him, he is gorgeous. That others family's loss is your gain. Good idea about contacting that rescue for a recommendation for a cardiologist. Always good to get a second opinion. Since he is already the age he is, he sounds like he has beaten alot of the odds and I bet will be with you a long time.


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

No advice, just wishing you an that beautiful boy of yours many, many happy years together.


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## Kohanagold (Nov 5, 2008)

He is one cute boy!!! I think we can all agree on that, and I think we can also all agree that youre a wonderful match for him and thank you for stepping up for this poor little guy that had such a rotten start at life. 

I hope that you can find some answers for him and that things work out. He's one very lucky little boy, for sure. BJ


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## BearValley (Nov 30, 2008)

Oh he is just SO cute! Thanks for giving him your heart and a great life.


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## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

He is sooo handsome and so lucky to have you for his family,


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## ask (May 3, 2009)

Thank you eveyrone for your kind words and inspiration, it's good to know there are still good people out there. 

Tucker came home just a few hours ago (from the surgery Tuesday morning) and he is clearly happy to be home, despite being thoroughly annoyed by the cone on his head. He is recovering well. Once we're through the short term recovery I can think more about the SAS - but not too much. I guess you just have to soldier on and enjoy everything day to day. 

*I would still really like to hear from those of you who have a pup with moderate to severe SAS. *By all accounts the only treatment is beta blockers. Tucker is on Atenolol right now, and he'll be transitioned over Metoprolol. From what I understand the beta blockers don't really slow the progression of SAS, but rather keep the heart from working too hard, which subsequently slows the enlargment of the ventricle walls.
That, and keeping him on a good diet without washcloths  Above all, let a dog be a dog.

If anyone is inclined to contact me privately, I think my email address is in my profile.
Thanks again

Andrew


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## Hudson (May 18, 2005)

Tucker is a delightful looking golden, thankyou for giving him a loving home, sorry I have no advise to offer but I am sure other members may be able to help you.Best wishes to you and Tucker.


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## Rubymom (Mar 14, 2009)

Hi, I wanted to chime in as I had a wonderful golden, Marley, for six years, who was diagnosed with moderate SAS at 6 months old and was given less than a year to live. She progressed to severe SAS by the time she was a year old but lived a great life until last July when I had to put her to sleep at 6 years of age. She was low energy compared to most goldens but swam and went hiking in the woods and generally did everything a golden does just in smaller doses throughout her whole life and up until a few months before she died. We limited her exercise, especially in the warm weather but she was pretty good about self-regulating. The vet recommended putting her to sleep back when she was first diagnosed and I am so glad I didn't do so as I would have missed out on having her amazing presence for six years. We did a combo of holistic and traditional therapy so if you want to talk in more detail send me a message and I will share anything that might be helpful. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't miss her but wouldn't have traded having her, SAS and all, in my life for anything. take care


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

My foster Maui who is 7 months old has a grade 5/6, more towards the 6 side. He is also on
Atenolol. I was also told the same thing about the beta blockers, its mainly to keep the heart from over working. We dont have any restrictions on him what so ever since his is so bad. He loves playing and running with the other dogs. My other dog Cruiser as I posted before is a grade 3 and has been a 3 since he was 8 weeks old, he isnt on meds and lives a normal life.


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## Kand3 (Nov 3, 2008)

Bailey (7 months) was diagnosed with a heart murmur at approx. 10 weeks. Hers has not worsened to this point, so we have not had the echocardiogram done yet. However, our vet does think that given the breed and the location of the murmur it is probably some form of SAS. 

I don't really have any advice, but just wanted to let you know I can sympathize and tell you thank you for rescuing this sweet boy and good luck to both of you!!


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

I noticed an SAS study listed on the Golden Retriever Club of America website the other day....just in case anyone is interested in participating.

http://www.grca.org/pdf/health/SAS_DNA_study6-09.pdf


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

I meant to ask before why will he be transitioned to Metoprolol?



ask said:


> Thank you eveyrone for your kind words and inspiration, it's good to know there are still good people out there.
> 
> Tucker came home just a few hours ago (from the surgery Tuesday morning) and he is clearly happy to be home, despite being thoroughly annoyed by the cone on his head. He is recovering well. Once we're through the short term recovery I can think more about the SAS - but not too much. I guess you just have to soldier on and enjoy everything day to day.
> 
> ...


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## ask (May 3, 2009)

The Atenolol was 1/4 of a 25mg pill 2x/day, I think maybe they were doing
this because he had recent surgery. Now that he's healed he's on the Metoprolol (not sure of the dosage) just once a day.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

I think L-Carnitine is good for heart issues...check with your vet prior to any supps ...Tucker is very lucky to have you.


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## graciesmom (Feb 9, 2011)

My golden was diagnosed at 10 weeks with moderate to severe SAS, and promptly put on the beta blocker. At 10 months, he is quite large and it was confirmed after another round of cardiac work ups that he has congenital SAS, moderate to severe. I monitor his diet and exercise. The vet recommended in the beginning that we put him down, but we couldn't. The specialist can't give a definitive life span, only to say that our dog doesn't know he's sick and that we are giving him a great life. So, what other, holistic or otherwise, treatments have you tried?


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## ask (May 3, 2009)

Hi everyone, we are still here!
Tucker will be 4 next month. Just last week he had a check up with the
cardiologist and sadly his SAS pressure gradient has jumped from 80 in 11/2009 to 150. The research shows that once a pup is full-grown, SAS generally does not progress but in his case, for whatever reason, it has. He is going on 25mg Atenolol 2x/day starting now (from 25mg Metoprolol 1x/day). But as far as I can tell, he is good. Slow, laid back, fluffy and loving and an unstoppable appetite. He is overweight. It's hard to control when you have a breed that is so food-oriented and does not tolerate much in the way of exercise. He is about 82lbs and on the vet recommendation he is moving from the the Breeder's Choice Active Care Chicken & Rice to Purina OM (Overweight Management) which is about 100kcal less per cup (2x/day). I'm not thrilled about putting him on a Purina product so if anyone has a recommendation on a high-protein, high-fiber, low-cal food that leans on the holistic/natural side, please let me know. To answer graciesmom, I anything that reduces strain on the heart is beneficial. Weight management, limited exercise, no crap treats (ie, no bulk treats even from a good pet store). We give him carrot and apple pieces but of course the occasional rawhide. And we stay away from anything and everything made in China. Treat your dogs body like you would treat your own!!

Otherwise it's just one day at a time around here.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

For dogs that need weight management because of medical conditions, the prescription diets are good choices. (I think the Purina brand prescription foods are better than SD.)

You would have to just search for other brands that have the calorie limit he needs. If you email the manufacturers the are ususally very good to help you identify the best choices in their line of foods for your dog's needs.

These foods from Fromm all have less than 400 kcal/cup
Duck & Sweet Potato
Chicken À La Veg
Whitefish & Potato

Natural Balance has a reduce calorie food that is under 300 kcal/cup: http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/RedCalDog.html#Product

I am very glad to hear he is still with you and loving life !


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## esSJay (Apr 13, 2009)

Thanks for coming back to provide the update. I hope your boy's condition stabilizes with the meds and new diet.


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## Rubymom (Mar 14, 2009)

So happy that Tucker is hanging in there. I remember when Marley's gradient jumped to over 160 and how tough that was to hear. Her heart was able to compensate for a pretty long time at that high gradient so hopefully Tucker's will as well. She was also on altenolol 25mg/2x daily. She was on prescription IVD duck and potato as far as food because she had IBD as well and did very well on it. We had a hard time keeping her weight down as she was also on prednisone so I know how hard it is but with a lot of swimming time, tons of green beans and carrots we managed it pretty well. I know how hard it is to take it one day at a time but if there is one thing I wish I had done differently was to not anticipate/dread what would down the line but just enjoy the present more, hopefully you are doing that. Hugs to Tucker!


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## nrowland (Apr 20, 2011)

*Sympathies*

Hi,

We also have a 4 month old "Sean" with severe SAS. We are in the first week though. He is still in the ICU for fluid in his lungs. We will get him back today. The Korean vet here will put him on beta-blockers and a low-sodium diet. I will try to get more info as it comes. 

Nick


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## vrmueller (Jun 14, 2008)

Hoping for the best for your Sean. Please keep us updated on his condition.


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## ask (May 3, 2009)

All the best to you and Sean. Tucker sends his love!!


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## nrowland (Apr 20, 2011)

*Info*



ask said:


> All the best to you and Sean. Tucker sends his love!!


Thanks! Just a few updates. Sean came out of the ICU fine his heart swelling went down and the fluid seems to have lessened in his lungs. His pressure gradient was 95-115. He is on diuretics this week along with a beta-blocker. Next week he can go to just the beta-blocker.

However he seems to be depressed, not eating much and he has vomited twice in the past two days. Not sure if it's related to the meds or not, his food is the same as we've always fed him. Has Tucker had any vomiting issue? Hope all is well with you guys!

Nick


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## ask (May 3, 2009)

Thankfully no vomiting issues...




nrowland said:


> Thanks! Just a few updates. Sean came out of the ICU fine his heart swelling went down and the fluid seems to have lessened in his lungs. His pressure gradient was 95-115. He is on diuretics this week along with a beta-blocker. Next week he can go to just the beta-blocker.
> 
> However he seems to be depressed, not eating much and he has vomited twice in the past two days. Not sure if it's related to the meds or not, his food is the same as we've always fed him. Has Tucker had any vomiting issue? Hope all is well with you guys!
> 
> Nick


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

How is the diet working with the Om? I had a foster dog (didnt have a murmur) but was grossly over weight, when we got him he weighted 131 pounds.we put him on Om and lost almost all his weight and I think he is 5 pounds shy of his ideal goal weight.


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## ask (May 3, 2009)

I took him off the Purina OM after the first bag. Should have read the ingredients first. It's mostly filler! I will not feed my dog anything where the first two ingredients are corn (corn, corn gluten meal). That's not nutrition, in my opinion, that's making them feel full with low calories which is fine for weight management but a dog still needs nutritious food. I switched him to Canidae Seniors & Overweight - 50kcal less per cup than the Breeder's Choice food he was getting, and the first ingredient is chicken meal, in fact the first ten ingredients are real food. So he gets one measured cup in the morning and then 3/4 of a measured cup in the evening topped off with another 1/4 cup of fresh green beans. And he's still overweight...but sloooooooowly getting better.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Ask*

Ask

Hugs and kisses to Tucker!!


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## nrowland (Apr 20, 2011)

*Sorry*

Well... Sean died this past weekend.

Apparently if the dog is a puppy with severe SAS his chances are much lower as his heart is still growing making the condition worse with each week. Whereas a dog more than one year old with severe SAS is not growing much more so at that point its more of a waiting game. 

Saturday Sean was having trouble breathing again. The vet said his lungs had filled with fluid again. Sean could not breathe except to stand up and he looked so tired. We spent our last minutes with him at the vet. We've been thinking about him for the past four days now and my wife went to temple and placed a lantern for him that will burn for the next year.

At the same time we found out that my wife is pregnant today with our first baby. It gives me comfort to know that life comes and goes in such a fashion 

We definitely will get another golden but when the time is right. For now Sean can run and play with Thor and Jake


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Ask and Nrowland*

*ASK*
Praying and checking in on Tucker.

*Nrowland*
So very sorry to hear about Sean, but happy for to hear about your baby..


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

I just found this thread. I'm glad to read that Tucker is doing well, but so so sad to read the little Sean passed away. 



> *At the same time we found out that my wife is pregnant today with our first baby. It gives me comfort to know that life comes and goes in such a fashion *


Congratulations on the upcoming birth of your first child. There is comfort in the circle of life...sadness, but also comfort...and great joy.


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## sunflowerkd (Oct 26, 2010)

Years and Years ago, I had a mix with a heart murmur. He was on meds. The excercise we did most was to swim. I don't have a pool but did find several spots. I found that most places that are semi dog friendly don't mind dog traffic in the early am . The security guard knew us and knew he had a heart condition and they let me have the dog swim. 

The other thing is that he had arthritis and so we have him adequan. It turned out to be a blood thinner and so it helped.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Don't know how I missed this the last couple of months. I'm so glad to hear Tucker is doing well and I'm very sorry to hear about Sean. But excited about the baby for you & your wife. Helps me realize just how lucky we are. 

Tinkerbell is going to be 5 in June, hard to believe. Our cardiologist was not very optimistic about Tinkerbell at all and I have not taken her back. Her gradient was in the 120s at 6 months, and it seemed to worsen a bit to start with but has been very steady since then.

She also tends to run a bit over weight, she's back up to a good 75 pounds, a bit too much extras with her dinner. We have all been cutting back here so there was always leftovers. And she does so love a few pieces of steak or chicken with her dinner. So we are making sure she gets out for a couple of short walks a day right now. It is perfect weather for her right now, only getting up into the 60s. And back to lots of veggies instead of meat as treats. And we just switched her food. She had been on Acana for over a year but everytime I went to order it it was out of stock. So this time after a week it still wasn;t in stock so I had to go to the pet store to buy something while I still had enough to mix it. I looked at the Evo for seniors and Blue Buffalo Wilderness chicken. Ended up going with Blue Buffalo, it was cheaper, less calories and is available at the local pet store as well as at Petsmart, so hopefully always available.


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## ask (May 3, 2009)

We are so very sorry to hear about Sean. Funny how an anonymous message board can still stir emotions. I have found this to be a great support group, nrowland I hope you do too. Congratulations to you and your wife, that is wonderful news!


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