# English Golden Retriever at Crufts 2022



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Thank you for sharing. Very interesting to see some breeds that we do not see over here.  

That judge.... heheheh. He was brought over to judge at a show over here some years ago because he's a pretty big name for cocker spaniel people. I can see he really likes the triangle pattern - as he still is the only judge I've shown to who asked for the triangle. Problem with the triangle is it can make even really good dogs look terrible gaiting. The FCR - impression was "ick" seeing that dog do the triangle. Dog had an almost hackney stride.... but with the full ring at the end, such a nice stride and reach from that dog.  

If you compared the FCR to the golden - not a surprise to see that other dog did not make the cut.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

The Golden was overweight. 🥴 

I definitely think showmanship is a bigger deal here.

Also, Jeff Pepper asked for a triangle when I showed to him last summer. We did all three: down-and-back, triangle, and go around. I was soooo thankful my teacher in conformation class had taught us how to do them.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

ArkansasGold said:


> The Golden was overweight. 🥴


As were many other dogs (and humans).


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

A Clumber comes a couple of dogs later. I always think they look chunky, but it's their look in general. We had one in the neighborhood who was the sweetest dog. She slimed my pants every time I saw her.


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

Many judges ask for a triangle here, it is more common than anything else. The dogs are usually moved in a circle all together first, then triangle and a straight out straight back depending on the shape of the ring. The BOB this year was a French dog. Annef


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

annef said:


> Many judges ask for a triangle here, it is more common than anything else. The dogs are usually moved in a circle all together first, then triangle and a straight out straight back depending on the shape of the ring. The BOB this year was a French dog. Annef


Other than testing the handling skills of the handler, I gotta wonder what is the advantage of requesting a triangle? With the FCR it clearly made no difference how that dog looked while doing the triangle. 

My 2 boys today are better trained at doing the triangle than their dad was....

Their dad, I remember HATING handling class because I had a big gait dog who was made for moving out in a big ring.  And the guy I took classes from back then was a bull dog handler/judge and I remember always thinking, "Of course you like throwing the triangle at us, you got a dog breed with no legs...." LOL.


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

The reason triangles are used are:
It allows the judge to see hind, front and side movement in one go. It saves time especially if you are judging over 200 dogs in one day
The ring shape is often better in the UK for a triangle rather than a straight up and down which would be used more in a long rectangular ring

Not all judges use it but it is a common way to move the dog. Sometimes a triangle is followed by a straight up and down or a 'round to the end' 

Annef


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

annef said:


> It allows the judge to see hind, front and side movement in one go. It saves time especially if you are judging over 200 dogs in one day


It takes longer than the d&b though and the dogs go around anyway to show side movement. Meanwhile you had all these dogs looking like they were elbows out or this way and that way while doing the triangle which the judge clearly disregarded based on what he could see with the go around (I assume).


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

Yes, doing a triangle certainly allows you to see any dogs out at elbow and any well constructed dog should be able to corner with no problem. They would have to when they are out working and it is interesting to watch them searching and how they use their body whilst they hunt. We are asked to ensure the dogs are 'fit for function' which means they have to appear to be able to do the job they are bred for. Any exaggerations are also penalised so excess coat ,very heavy bone, over angulation, short muzzles etc should also be penalised. In some rings which are very small it is not possible for the dogs to move round to assess side gait easily. Crufts have huge rings and it is a luxury not seen at many shows. One open show I went to with 15 puppies it was impossible to have the dogs in the ring whilst other dogs moved!
Personally I always use a triangle when I am judging if the ring allows as do many judges. More traditional in the UK than in many countries. Annef


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Another benefit of the triangle is you get a consistent view. I mean that without the tight cornering or stopping that occurs in a down and back, the triangle keeps the dog in motion for the entire pattern.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

LJack said:


> Another benefit of the triangle is you get a consistent view. I mean that without the tight cornering or stopping that occurs in a down and back, the triangle keeps the dog in motion for the entire pattern.


But with a dog that moves out well and covers a lot of ground without too much effort (as expected for our breed) - there can definitely be more crowding with the triangle, depending on how it's set up. Which can make a good dog look bad or worse than a lesser dog.

My two guys can do the triangle well enough - but we've only done in handling classes where basically the triangle is the perimeter of the room so the dog is naturally slowing down when approaching the first left turn and then you are allowed to do a courtesy turn at the tip of the triangle before going up to the "judge". If the show ring were set up the same way, I imagine it would be fine. Basically using 1/2 the ring, etc. That did not seem to be the case watching that video though where you saw a lot of problems with most of the dogs, except perhaps the smaller ones who had more of an advantage. I guess I'm trying to be generous in assuming all those dogs did not have the issues they appeared to have.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

The first sweeps assignment I judged I decided ahead of time to do a triangle, for all the positives mentioned above. What I quickly discovered was:
1 - Inexperienced handlers can't do it right, so you end up repeating (time waste) or trying to guess what the dog's movement is
2 - Half the "away" is spent getting the dog in stride
3 - Half the "side" is spent getting the dog in stride
4 - The acute corner is a giant hurdle
5 - Half the "back" is spent getting the dog in stride

IOW....the triangle was completely a time suck and did not allow you to view good movement because every three strides the dog has to change direction. I now question the intelligence of every judge who insists on a triangle. My subsequent assignments I've done a down and back!!!!


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