# Is this the solution?



## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

So I want to hear your guys thoughts....I had emailed a lady who competes around here to get her advice on what I'm going through lately, not to complain but just to hear if she knew of anyone in WI who could help me out.

Anyways....here's the sucky part, this is the second time that I've been told to get another dog. Start fresh with a puppy. Now, my question to all of you is....is this the solution to the problem? In my honest opinion, it's hard to tell someone to get and get another dog because you've messed up. I don't think it's fair to someone to tell them that...and I think you'll learn so much more by working through the problems you already have than probably training the same way and getting the same results. (Obviously with my next dog I won't take her through that hectic first training experience). 

What do you all think about this? I'm tempted to email her back...but not sure.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I think it depends...? 

Yes - you probably have a better chance of getting an OTCH with the next dog. NOT because I don't think you have a chance with your current dog, but simply based on your experience level will be much higher with the next pup. You won't be making the same mistakes that we all make with our first training dogs.

No - I do not think that you should completely give up on your current dog. If you are aiming for a CDX or even a UD, this should be something you can do with any dog providing they are physically able. It will just take a lot more training work with some dogs and a lot more oversight from an experienced instructor working with you (going to classes every single week, getting into fun matches every month, training in public 2 or 3 times a week, etc). 

No - I don't think you should give up on your current dog just because you feel like you aren't going to get high enough scores. Every bit of experience counts abd it means you will be more confident when the right time comes to bring the next pup home.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

I can't tell you how many times I was told to get another dog to train for competition with my girl, Baylee, not because of my mistakes but because of her difficult temperament. However, I forged ahead and solved numerous issues with her and learned a TON. Not only that but we achieved our CDX and actually have shown in utility. Probably, Baylee will not ever earn her UD because it took us 9 years to get to this point and her physical stamina is running out. It is always easy to say "Get another dog" but it is far more rewarding to accomplish a goal with a dog that you need to resovle issues with. You may need to adjust your goals a bit depending upon the capabilities of your dog.
The top performers would never have kept a dog like my Baylee but I am proud of how far we have come and how much I have learned about training with her. My new dog, Baxter, is reaping the benefits of what I have learned with Baylee. 
I still have not given up on Baylee. We continue to train and work toward our goal. If you want a US OTCH you may have to wait for your next dog and enjoy the knowledge you are gaining with this one. You may have better luck attaining a Canadian OTCH which, I believe, is the equivalent of a US UD.
Hang in there and keep trying to locate someone who is willing to help you with your current dog. You may need to set your goals lower to get your foot in the door with a trainer then proceed full speed ahead to whatever you can accomplish.
I can tell you this, the bond with my Baylee has grown significantly as we worked through her difficulties. She is amazing in my eyes even though we most likely won't achieve our ultimate goal of a UD. 
Good Luck!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

I am kind of in the same boat as you. With my Novice A dog, we were one leg short of a UD when she developed health issues and we no longer competed. With my second dog we were doing very well, then life kind of got in the way and my competing stopped. 

Jump forward 15 years and I got Dooley, hoping to pick up where we left off. Not happening. Dooley is not really have the obedience temperament, he is more geared toward the field. Plus, it seems in that 15 years, things have changed ENORMOUSLY in the training realm. I am finding I have to re-learn a lot of skills.

I have decided not to push the issue with Dooley, and just to have fun and do the hunt tests, and when there is a local show or I start showing with Breeze or Tag, I'll enter him for fun and see what we get. I'm sure he can get a CDX, but it won't be the scores I am used to getting with my two first dogs. While, I in no means will give up on him, he will be my gateway to better insight while training the puppy. 

Keep your chin up, try to find a trainer that is willing to work through the issues you are having and learn for the future. You are limited only by your desire!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

A very wise & experienced trainer, exhibitor & instructor (Diane Bauman to be exact) once said at a seminar words that I will never forget.

She asked us to articulate our definition of failure. After we gave it our best shot (example 45 tries for Utility, 10 broken sits, etc etc etc) she asked if we wanted to know her definition. Of course we all said YES

Her response;
'My definition of failure is giving up'

So, I absolutely do not think you should give up on Maddie. You may need to adjust your expectations but believe it or not, you will make a lot of mistakes with your 2nd dog, your 3rd etc. They all have different temperaments and training needs. 

And why would you possibly listen to anyone tell you to get another dog? this is not fair to you and certainly not fair to your dog. Working through the challenges is what really forges our bonds with our dogs whether they are physical, mental, obedience, agility, field whatever. So you keep looking for a trainer who actually knows how to train outside her cookie cutter box and doesn't just fling her hands in the air and tell you to give up <sheesh>


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

No. I don't think that's the answer. Lowering your expectations and accepting your dog for who she is is definitely part of the answer.

Maddie may not be the 195+ Nov A dog you wish for her to be. She may not be the Golden who's super flashy in the ring. THAT'S OKAY. Is it a function of her personality? Is it a function of her early training? Who knows. Does it matter? Only to the extent that you decide on what, if anything, you want to do differently later in life when you get your next dog.

Very few people get what turns out to be their Nov A dog specifically for doing obedience. My Nov A dog was a Whippet that I picked out b/c she was mellow and I was working an office job at the time so I needed a dog who'd be mellow at home during the day. Not much drive there. Had to work my BUTT OFF to get her to consider playing the obedience game with me. Learned a ton along the way. Was fortunate enough to manage to get high scores, but could tell it wasn't really her idea of a good time... so she was retired after getting two CDs and three Rally titles. We switched to coursing, which she loved.

Love your dog for who she is. Yes. Another dog will be easier. But that doesn't make it the right answer for you right now.

The best advice I can give you is to RELAX about it. You're spending so much time worried about how to fix Maddie's "problem". No doubt your vibe is starting to stress her out. If you can relax and enjoy the ride... keep playing. If not, move on to something else. THAT'S OKAY. It's OKAY if you aren't enjoying the obedience journey with her anymore - for whatever reason. 

If you think there's something physically wrong with her - stop talking about it and get it checked out so you have an answer. If you're grasping at straws and thinking a medical issue would be an obvious (read: "easy") answer, then let that go.

If you two both have fun doing obedience together - keep playing - with or without goals of showing. If either one of you isn't having fun - and you can't make it fun - maybe it's time to move to something else, like agility.

Because bottom line is this: If you were to wake up tomorrow and, God forbid, found your dog stone-cold on the floor, how would you want to remember your last months with her? As having fun? Or stressing out over a man-made game?

An agility judge once said during a briefing: "Run every run like it's your dog's last." Powerful words.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

MaddieMagoo said:


> What do you all think about this? I'm tempted to email her back...but not sure.


I forgot to respond to this portion. In my very humble opinion, I would lose the email address. 

I personally come from the school of thought that you train the dog at the end of the leash, and further any dog who comes into my home is not disposable.. so anyone who told me to get another dog just wouldn't warrant any of my energy


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Because bottom line is this: If you were to wake up tomorrow and, God forbid, found your dog stone-cold on the floor, how would you want to remember your last months with her? As having fun? Or stressing out over a man-made game?
> 
> An agility judge once said during a briefing: "Run every run like it's your dog's last." Powerful words.


this is one of the most powerful things I have ever read. And so so true. These games we play with our dogs are just that, games. The time we spend with our dogs, in whatever activities we choose to do is what is most important. My youngest dog was going to be my Otch dog. Life and the things that come along with life kind of got in our way. There is no doubt perhaps with another owner, more dedicated to the sport of obedience he could have achieved that goal. But he doesn't care about that. The love I see in his eyes tells me that he loves me, and could care less about ribbons, awards, titles. What he wants is to be with me, and that is more than enough reward for me. 

Donna


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> this is one of the most powerful things I have ever read. And so so true.


I was going to say the same thing - and I even got a little teary eyed (I still am) because I was thinking about my previous angel. When I started signing him up for trials, I knew he was never going to go further than Novice because of his elbows. So when he got his 1st leg it really hit me that we were treading close to the end of his trialing career. 

Every single trial we entered was like a parade of Danny in my mind. I was so proud of my boy. I was proud of how stalwart he was and brave - keep in mind he was my shy guy who didn't even want strangers looking at him. And I never knew more than a week before a show whether he was going to be sound enough to enter the ring. It took us 4 years to get into the ring. And there my beautiful boy was coming out of his shell and doing everything just the way we practiced and smiling up at me with every sit. 

You need to enjoy every training day you have with your dog and those trials should celebrate all of that time you've spent together. Because when you guys get to that end point, you are going to be looking back and remembering how it felt to be in that ring with that dog next to you, regardless of the ribbons and scores. 

Training and trialing should be the best game ever, especially since most pet owners out there never get to go out and show off that connection they have with their dogs.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

I have to say that your powerful words of encouragement have really helped me look at this in a different way. She's my first dog that I've ever had, and yeah we were told originally if we wanted to do this that I'd have to get a different dog. But not all dogs are born with that "obedience gene" and can go pull a 200 on any given weekend. I think some people just think that they know it all and they think the solution is by getting another dog. I've had two people who have yet to tell me that...one whom I told about that and said, "Oh good grief! You certainly don't need another dog! The dog you have is WONDERFUL!!" 

I mean yes, I would like nice scores with her...but I certainly have no intentions of putting an OTCh on her anymore. I would at least like to put a CDX on her, because I know she can do it. She lights up when we work on jumping or dumbbell and has a blast doing so. I don't plan on giving up on her...because I've never really given up on anything. She truly is too much of a blessing to me to give up on her.

I also think her lack of energy could be a health problem. I'm debating whether or not to get a blood panel done on her. I'm thinking I just might anyways to be safe rather than be sorry.

I guess all in all, the game of life is finding out how to play it; making mistakes, learning from them and finally moving on. 

Thank you all for your words of wisdom and advice. We're both excited for the seminar this weekend...maybe we can figure out this problem (if it's even a problem...or health related).


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think the quote from Michael Jordan below your picture, should be the answer to the questions you seek.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

go back and read the Micheal Jordan quote at the bottom of your signature, and I think you will have answered your own question!

edit to add....Laura and I typed almost the exact same thing at almost the exact same time! Great minds and all that....


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Oh, that is too funny!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

you beat me by 1 minute, you either type faster, or THINK faster :



DNL2448 said:


> Oh, that is too funny!


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

> Her response;
> 'My definition of failure is giving up'


I was told more than once to give up on Radar and to get another dog. My response was standard. * I HAVE TO LEARN TO FIX THIS ONE FIRST BEFORE I GET ANOTHER* Right before the accident we both had finally turned and all that grinding finally paid off. I wouldn't trade it for anything. 

You see, I think that makes the difference in someone who trains VS a *TRAINER*. A dog only knows what YOU TEACH THEM. Anyone in my opinion who would get rid of a dog for that reason really doesn't know how to train but tends to keep going through dogs until they get LUCKY.
Of course the ones they got rid of might be the LUCKY ONES!



> we were told originally if we wanted to do this that I'd have to get a different dog. But not all dogs are born with that "obedience gene" and can go pull a 200 on any given weekend.


Evidently someone is lacking *TRAINER GENES*!!!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Okay, I read this post when I woke up this morning but I waited until I had a real keyboard to reply instead of just a kindle. It takes a lot to make me mad, most things I can just brush off, but this kind of attitude really gets to me. How _dare_ anyone tell a new exhibitor, one that has not even taken their dog into the ring, and in this instance a teenager no less, that they need to give up on their current dog and get a new one? If there is a problem with this sport then there it is right there.

Caryn don't listen to that BS for one minute. No, every dog cannot compete at the highest levels. Yes with every dog we train we learn something and hopefully do a better job with the next dog down the road. But that does not mean for a second that the dog you have and love right now shouldn't be able to go on that fantastic journey with you. 20 years down the road nobody is going to remember what kind of scores Maddie had in the ring, but you will remember fondly that girl that started it all for you. My first time in Novice A I went in thinking my dog and I totally rocked and was quite sure we were going to get a HIT and transform the obedience world. Reality was we were not at all prepared and we earned our CD with scores in the low 170's and once it happened I did not give one care as to what the score was, just how much we had bonded and shared and what my girl was able to do for me to earn that title.

Caryn I have a challenge for you. It's up to you if you take me up on it or not, but here it is: enter a few times this summer. Do not go into it with a goal of a certain minimum score or even earning a leg. Go into it with the goal of seeing how happy you can get Maddie during your run. See what works for her and what doesn't. Don't give a flying flip if she looses focus or has crooked sits, just see what you can do to make her happy in a trial setting, even if it is something that adversely effects her score at first. Gain that gift, and I promise you the rest will follow.


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## Augie's Mom (Sep 28, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> No. I don't think that's the answer. Lowering your expectations and accepting your dog for who she is is definitely part of the answer.
> 
> Maddie may not be the 195+ Nov A dog you wish for her to be. She may not be the Golden who's super flashy in the ring. THAT'S OKAY. Is it a function of her personality? Is it a function of her early training? Who knows. Does it matter? Only to the extent that you decide on what, if anything, you want to do differently later in life when you get your next dog.
> 
> ...


Such poignant words, you've beautifully articulated what it should be about.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Oh and for anyone that still subscribes to Front and Finish, I highly recommend Connie Cleveland's article in this month's issue.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

> Caryn I have a challenge for you. It's up to you if you take me up on it or not, but here it is: enter a few times this summer. Do not go into it with a goal of a certain minimum score or even earning a leg. Go into it with the goal of seeing how happy you can get Maddie during your run. See what works for her and what doesn't. Don't give a flying flip if she looses focus or has crooked sits, just see what you can do to make her happy in a trial setting, even if it is something that adversely effects her score at first. Gain that gift, and I promise you the rest will follow.


:appl::appl::appl::appl::appl::appl::appl:

Sometimes you have to lose a battle to win the war. I pulled Radar from 2 Masters in the first series just to teach a lesson. Both I probably could have squeezed through for a ribbon.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Loisiana said:


> Oh and for anyone that still subscribes to Front and Finish, I highly recommend Connie Cleveland's article in this month's issue.


Okay Jodie, I resubscribed and read the article. Awesome 

Interestingly enough, at lunch today (I have a vacation day) I was reading CleanRun ('the' magazine for agility) and there is an article in this month's issue titled 'When is Good Enough Enough'. 

I struggle with this whole thing as well because I honestly want to be in the ribbons, but I have had dogs get hurt or age too soon that never earned the titles they deserved.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

MaddieMagoo said:


> I mean yes, I would like nice scores with her...but I certainly have no intentions of putting an OTCh on her anymore. I would at least like to put a CDX on her, because I know she can do it. She lights up when we work on jumping or dumbbell and has a blast doing so. I don't plan on giving up on her...because I've never really given up on anything. She truly is too much of a blessing to me to give up on her.
> 
> I also think her lack of energy could be a health problem. I'm debating whether or not to get a blood panel done on her. I'm thinking I just might anyways to be safe rather than be sorry.


If she lights up in Open work, then for doG sake... get in and out of Novice and don't worry about the scores. Nov. is boring anyway! ;-) Heeling ... heeling ... yawn ... heeling ... more heeling ... more yawning.

Get the medical work done so you know.

Take Louisiana up on her challenge. HAVE FUN WITH YOUR DOG. Do whatever it takes to get her up and as animated as is comfortable for her (w/o expecting her to suddenly look like a maniac Sunfire or Tanbark dog!). I know you have a tripod and video camera b/c you used to post videos of you guys all the time. Video your next session at home and post it. Be silly with her. Have fun. If you're willing, let us see it. Often, we think we're doing or being a certain way, but we're so used to it. An outside pair of eyes often sees things we don't.


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## Augie's Mom (Sep 28, 2007)

This thread and reading Connie Cleveland's article made me so sad.

Our beloved companions are with us for such a short time, in the end what matters most are the memories.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Okay....so I'm going to try and respond to everyone's posts off the top of my head! lol...so here I go.

I think the sport has to realize that we're all human, we make mistakes and words that you say to others can either make or break them. When I read the first sentence of her email concerning getting a new dog...I didn't read any further. I've been told that once before and the person even offered to help me find a new dog with a good breeder and started listing off some. We were on our way home from a show and my Dad was pretty ticked off...and well, when you're 14 years old what else do you do? Cry. Sounds pretty cheesey, but what else was I to do? I'm SO THANKFUL Linda came to my rescue and turned her around. We now have attention, had a better attitude, I was able to have fun with her. Anyways, I'm sure I've told ya'll this story a billion times before. I was determined back then not to give up on her...and I'm sure as heck not going to now! (Just a side note, my parents told me I quite basketball, but because I loved it that much, I always said no. I couldn't imagine my life without it....I think this can carry over into the sport of Obedience.)

Jodie: Since you have been so kind to me and I'm glad you have given me the challenge. And I'm going to accept it.  I've looked at a few trials throughout the summer and I think I've got at least 3 weekends in a row with them in August. Hopefully life doesn't get in the way and I can show in them. I'll even do a big trial at the end of July and show in Obedience one day. =] I'm going to enjoy every minute I have with her and be wild and crazy in the ring. Maybe I'll let loose myself and have a good summer. =]

Stephanie: I'm going to TRY my hardest by getting up something on YouTube for ya'll to watch. Maybe my Dad can get us tomorrow at class...depending on how many people are there. Otherwise, I'll shoot something at home.

Thank you all again for the advice, and knowing that we can do it. Maybe we can let loose in the Beginner Novice ring!


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