# Nico 🧡 (KNK Run N Red Dynamo)



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Do you mean you have hopes of a stud career?
Neither of his parents have clearances and only two of the four grandparents have anything on OFA.


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

.


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

Prism Goldens said:


> Do you mean you have hopes of a stud career?
> Neither of his parents have clearances and only two of the four grandparents have anything on OFA.


So far he has passed all his clearances. My female had no health tested parents and she passed all ofa testing. And on his dad side has most of the clearances. I'm not too concerned at this point. No need for rude imputs 😊


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I wasn't being rude- was stating fact. You didn't answer the question, though- are you hoping for a stud career outside your own breedings? The things I mention WILL matter to any ethical bitch owner. No one I know looks @ just the dog, they look at 5 gens at a minimum. 
I dk why you removed his name- I simply have to get used to putting anything I may want to remember in the responses- removing it is odd. Pedigree: Knk Run N Red Dynamo


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Pedigree: Avery's Golden Rush of Ellie Mae CGCA TKI RN --- for example- people will note her sire has ED and her dam, nothing, for generations. And other than that major thing, this is a risky pedigree. Especially when you put with a dog (just guessing here) who also has a black hole behind him. New breeders tend to start with dogs they can acquire on full registration for either extra $'s or from breeders who have lackluster pedigrees .. you can never ever build something good from nothing- find a mentor who is successful and start over. This breed NEEDS young breeders- but we need them to do things properly.


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

Everyone starts somewhere and I started with them as its hard to find full registration anywhere just starting up. Also I didn't know much about the health testing until after I got my girl and I did lots of research on it and started to do what was needed. I think I've done a pretty good job at getting titles and health certificates for my girl. I'll do the same with nico. I like the stay on the positive side of things. I'm proud of them and it's alot more for a new breeder than alot of new breeders out there. My dogs are my pets first not a money pit. So I won't start over and I'll prove that they are worth everything.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

FWIW- the best way to start a breeding program is to buy the very best you can afford, probably on limited registration, with the agreement to change it to full after all clearances and a title worth at least 4 points on the VC scale- you start out with better raw material and it forces the new to get involved in the community in order to earn that entry level title ( a 4 point title is a CD, JH, NA or NAJ, or a TD). When a person has bred a litter and sells puppies on full to anyone who might want to breed them, they have nothing to protect in that pedigree- which translates to 'nothing worth breeding' unless it is a random new exhibitor who just won't give up and usually in performance since the conformation of that sort of pedigree rarely is worth reproducing. I hope you will do more than the RN, even though you are not 'required to' by the breeder, and not have the goal of simply being a breeder - we do need more young breeders... but they need to have the major goal of being involved in the community via competition imo. And the opinion of any ethical breeder I can think of. I hope others will reinforce that here, too.

I hope you realize my intent is not to be unkind- you will hear this all sooner or later and the sooner the better so you can adjust your plans/expectations for what you have. I've devoted myself to this breed for over 40 years and while I can appreciate the difficulty of buying a bitch on full whose pedigree is worth reproducing, if there is a will, there is usually a way even if it is not the easy way.


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

I've been searching for awhile to find another female that would compliment Nico. Everyone I have talked to will not give breeding rights even if I want to do health testing and title the dogs first. I dont think you realize how much I've tried to find something. It's not easy and it's not fair to new people that are actually trying to strive to be a good breeder. Unfortunately it is hard to find hunt trials in my area. I did take online classes for foundation feild training and will be traveling this month for a hunting lesson I also have a full time job so it limits my options for going to events but im hopeful my friend can assist in taking nico to feild trials while I cant be there.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

entryexpress.net for listing of hunt tests and field trials (and WC/X's).

Nico is younger than the bitch- did you buy her as an adult?

I want to say something but fear that I have hit you with a lot of 'downers' this morning- so please try to take this as positively as you can- you say : '"It's not easy and it's not fair to new people that are actually trying to strive to be a good breeder'"...

How would you define 'good breeder'?

It isn't easy and it shouldn't be easy- why should it be 'easy'? Why should responsible and involved breeders of many years NOT expect you to jump thru hoops to get a bitch you can breed? The problem with doing it the way you are is that there is no way to hide what you've done if you later decide you really want to be a good breeder. "Good" meaning you know the standard and your dogs meet it, you value the depth of clearances behind them and you title them in real venues, not 'apply for' titles like CGC, TKN, and the myriad of others one can get simply by applying. "Good" meaning you aren't breeding an animal that probably shouldn't be bred since she has no proof she is to standard (get a CCA if you can't get points on her) and you'd rather take a flogging than breed something that isn't to the standard. And you know that because you know the Standard backwards and forwards. You can recite it and point to the body parts. 
Why should ANYONE start out in dogs breeding, of all things? Learning through exhibiting is a far stronger foundation than just putting dogs together whose pedigrees don't complement and whose structure may or may not complement each other. 
It isn't easy but it is fair. Fair to the DOGS. 
And I would suspect you did not approach any long-time exhibitor breeders about a limited bitch with an understanding it would change after titles earned/clearances done. It's a pretty common thing. Not with the BYB crowd, what do they care- and not with the MLM crowd- they too have no reason to care. But an involved breeder -as long as you didn't make them think you are not trustworthy- that's how we pull others into the dog world, by getting them involved and helping them learn. Once you do this breeding, though, nothing in this world is hidden- with a ton of dollars you may can get folks to not look too closely but there are many people who'd write you off just because you leapt before you looked. 
Pretend you ARE held to that standard on your bitch- get at least a CD or JH on her and try to get into a CCA so you can know what she lacks and needs in a stud dog who may not be your own boy .. odds of him filling her gaps are slim.. and if you cannot do that, find a couple of people willing to try to eval her by photos and videos and listen to what they tell you- don't be disappointed if your boy isn't her best choice. I dk where you live- if you are in FL I will go over your girl for you- and I'm sure there are others on this board who would make a similar offer.


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

Yes nico is a year younger than ellie. No I bought ellie as a puppy and have raised her from a puppy. I did all their training with the help of obedience classes.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Hi Kelsey! I think you are doing very well with what you have so far. You have really done a great job - and you’ve done it with no guidance. Keep doing clearances and keep up the obedience training! Obedience, Rally, and hunt tests can be a lot of fun in addition to the benefits to your breeding program.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with Prism about your pedigrees. They are risky from a health standpoint - even though you have done clearances.

I get that it’s hard to get started in this breed, I really do. If you want to get a dog from a really nice pedigree, I think you are going to have to do what Prism said about accepting limited registration until you prove yourself to that breeder. I encourage you to find your local Golden club and join! There are a couple in your state that really have some great people.

If you can, enter your dogs in Rally at the Pittsburgh Specialties later this month. I will be there all 4 days and would love to meet you.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Entries close on Wednesday, but here is the link to the show secretary just in case: Clantyre Show Secretary :: Specializing in AKC Agility, Conformation Specialties, Obedience & Rally, Earthdog & Herding Events 

It’s just Goldens for four days. Should be a ton of fun!


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

Prism Goldens said:


> entryexpress.net for listing of hunt tests and field trials (and WC/X's).
> 
> Nico is younger than the bitch- did you buy her as an adult?
> 
> ...


I didn't post a photo of my dog to get belittled. I posted him because I'm proud of him and I think he's a handsome boy. I dont care if anyone doesn't want him as a stud. He's what I was looking for a stud prospect. Which means stud in the making. He has the drive I wanted and strive to want to learn.. I have had alot of inquiries about him as well. Ellie I wouldn't trade her for the world.. I have had alot of people tell me what a good job I've done with my animals. You don't personally know me or my animals to judge us.. I get your trying to teach me or whatever. Dont plan to show or do anything big. I like getting a few titles because it's rewarding and I earned them all. Not "apply" for it you have to put in time and effort to get those titles. I thought this page was a place to place photos of your dogs and to like them. Not tell me I'm doing the wrong thing. Or tell me how my dogs aren't worthy. Maybe not to you but others love my dogs. Like I said training around my area is hard to find but I am doing my best to find a trainer for my dogs.


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

ArkansasGold said:


> Entries close on Wednesday, but here is the link to the show secretary just in case: Clantyre Show Secretary :: Specializing in AKC Agility, Conformation Specialties, Obedience & Rally, Earthdog & Herding Events
> 
> It’s just Goldens for four days. Should be a ton of fun!


I wouldnt be able to make all four days. Not sure if I'd have to be there the full 4 days?


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

knkiehl19 said:


> I wouldnt be able to make all four days. Not sure if I'd have to be there the full 4 days?


No, you wouldn’t have to be there all four days. I don’t think Rally is offered every day anyway. BUT I think you could come and watch rally and/or conformation on any of those days if you wanted to. Check out the premium list on the page I linked, it will give you all of the information you need.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

knkiehl19 said:


> I didn't post a photo of my dog to get belittled. I posted him because I'm proud of him and I think he's a handsome boy. I dont care if anyone doesn't want him as a stud. He's what I was looking for a stud prospect. Which means stud in the making. He has the drive I wanted and strive to want to learn.. I have had alot of inquiries about him as well. Ellie I wouldn't trade her for the world.. I have had alot of people tell me what a good job I've done with my animals. You don't personally know me or my animals to judge us.. I get your trying to teach me or whatever. Dont plan to show or do anything big. I like getting a few titles because it's rewarding and I earned them all. Not "apply" for it you have to put in time and effort to get those titles. I thought this page was a place to place photos of your dogs and to like them. Not tell me I'm doing the wrong thing. Or tell me how my dogs aren't worthy. Maybe not to you but others love my dogs. Like I said training around my area is hard to find but I am doing my best to find a trainer for my dogs.



Do go to the specialty and meet Meagan. It'd be fun for you and you'd see a lot of dogs to compare to. 

I am sorry you reacted to my thoughts as you did, I am honestly 100% in this for the breed, not the individuals who own them. I have spent most of my life stewarding for this breed and care very much that EVERY breeding is thoughtful and educated and worth breeding. I did not say your boy was ugly in any of the posts- I just said that it's quite unlikely he would be the best stud dog for your girl, if you must breed her. He is still a puppy and from that photo, I see a longer loin than is ideal, his flew is loose, and he's got a cute head. He looks like when his ribs spring, they may take care of the gap at his upper arm -or they may not- because his upper arm is short. No idea what your girl looks like. If you can get past feeling offended and think about where I'm coming from, that's when you can learn about Goldens. And you do need to learn, if you have the desire to be a good breeder someday, there is much you will need to learn you cannot get from reading books or forums or talking to whoever sold you these two dogs on full registration. Whoever is inquiring on him- they have just as vacant a pedigree as your girl does, I can bet dollars on that without even knowing who they or their girls are. 
I also did not say your girl was ugly- but a CGC and a trick title (which are 'applied for titles', not competed for titles) do not say she is worth breeding especially when you couple that with her pedigree. For all I know, she may be gorgeous- but without independent verification that she is to the Standard, she's just another girl with a vacant pedigree to anyone who looks. 
Like so much else in dogs, one does not have to know in real life the dogs or people involved. When you get as old as I am with as many years and dogs under your belt, you too will know things without knowing the actual creatures involved. And believe it or not, I truly am trying to help you. I'm not a mean person- I know you love your dogs. I just think you should rethink becoming a breeder with these two animals at least until you have more hands on education on Goldens and can appreciate what I am trying to get across. 
Very few of the great breeders didn't start out owning a bitch who should not be bred. Some of them did anyway and others did not because they got themselves good education. I offered to look @ your dogs by photo and since I see re Maegan's post that you are in PA- she could go over your girl in person and tell you way more than I could by photos. And probably get a couple other educated people to do same. You should consider this. Breeding these two animals just because you own them both is not a good reason (to breed them). Their having clearances doesn't make it any better an idea. Those great breeders who started with a less-than bitch and did breed her were able to turn themselves around because they got involved in the fancy and they now refer to her as a part of their learning ... but nowadays, between FB , and every other way people know what others are doing, there is really no way to get past your choices if they were poor ones because no responsible breeder wants to find THEIR pedigree in the hands of someone who's already got a reputation and that's just a fact of current life- info is there and anyone can find it. Even if you never told a soul you did a breeding, never put the pups on k9data- here's what would happen downline. The stud book would come out. One of the several people who input them to k9data would input the date on your girl's reg number. That would tell anyone who knows anything approx when she had a litter and to whom she was bred, who owned her at the time and who her breeder was initially. When those puppies get bred, they too will be entered into the database with the date of the SB which again would tell people that their breeder (you) sold on full. That is just one of the ways that things get out. Very little can be hidden nowadays. 

And maybe you are not interested at all in having a breeding program others would call good. Maybe the instant gratification (because 2 years of planning IS instant in dogs) is more important to you. Maybe you only want to surround yourself with other less-than breeders so you feel ok about what you're doing. But I took the time to write all this just in case you really do want to be a good breeder. 
Every litter matters to the entire breed.


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

Prism Goldens said:


> Do go to the specialty and meet Meagan. It'd be fun for you and you'd see a lot of dogs to compare to.
> 
> I am sorry you reacted to my thoughts as you did, I am honestly 100% in this for the breed, not the individuals who own them. I have spent most of my life stewarding for this breed and care very much that EVERY breeding is thoughtful and educated and worth breeding. I did not say your boy was ugly in any of the posts- I just said that it's quite unlikely he would be the best stud dog for your girl, if you must breed her. He is still a puppy and from that photo, I see a longer loin than is ideal, his flew is loose, and he's got a cute head. He looks like when his ribs spring, they may take care of the gap at his upper arm -or they may not- because his upper arm is short. No idea what your girl looks like. If you can get past feeling offended and think about where I'm coming from, that's when you can learn about Goldens. And you do need to learn, if you have the desire to be a good breeder someday, there is much you will need to learn you cannot get from reading books or forums or talking to whoever sold you these two dogs on full registration. Whoever is inquiring on him- they have just as vacant a pedigree as your girl does, I can bet dollars on that without even knowing who they or their girls are.
> I also did not say your girl was ugly- but a CGC and a trick title (which are 'applied for titles', not competed for titles) do not say she is worth breeding especially when you couple that with her pedigree. For all I know, she may be gorgeous- but without independent verification that she is to the Standard, she's just another girl with a vacant pedigree to anyone who looks.
> ...


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

You show your goldens. I'm done here.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Well, perhaps all this will be of use to someone else. I'm sorry you didn't really want to learn anything useful in your future career. . to my mind, when someone strives to do something, they should learn as much as possible. And yes- I do show my dogs.


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

This isn't a career to me it is a hobby and the joys of owning them.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Anyone? Hobby breeders are not breeding as a hobby- the hobby is the fancy and the breeding only comes about as a way to have one's own breedings as the partner for the showing. Whatever venue- field, agility, obedience, tracking, conformation. No real hobby breeder breeds as a hobby. That's a BYB. And I say that knowing you didn't hear what I was saying earlier so you will take offense. For that I am sorry- but it is the truth. Hobby breeding is a function of showing in some venue.


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

Ok you done here yet? Or just going to keep on going?


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Prism has given you REALLY good advice. I’m in the Northeast too, and I’m also young and have only been involved deeply in the breed since 2018. I started with a pet dog (my male, Denver). I liked his pedigree which is full of titles and clearances. I had dreams of showing him and potentially keeping him as a stud, however his breeder did a disservice to the breed by not getting full clearances on his parents, and producing dogs with heart issues and ortho issues in that breeding. Though I had big hopes and Denver is a lovely boy, I had to accept the fact that it wasn’t the type of quality/depth of health I’d want to start out with in the golden world, and he was purchased as a pet ultimately anyway.

It was really sad for me, because I was so dedicated to starting out the “right way”, but because I was committed to doing the best I could, I just kept training in obedience, rally, agility and conformation to be involved. Went to a CCA, our clearances on him to get a picture of his health, but ultimately neutered him and accepted that he’s my beloved pet.

Throughout all of that involvement I have meet and formed relationships with many well respected golden breeders and exhibitors who got to know and trust me. I got a female show-pick puppy from a breeder (also my mentor) who I talk with all the time and have learned so much from w/ regard to pedigrees, health, structure, evaluating litters, showing etc. It has all been worth it, even though by the time my girl would even be old enough to be bred, it’ll have been ~5 years of involvement in the breed....and even by then I may want to keep showing her to achieve my own personal goals (btw THAT is the hobby...not breeding) before I would breed her.

Long way of saying that you’ll earn more respect by slowing down and getting really involved to be a student of the breed first. I think it’s clear you have a commitment to obtaining all health clearances before you breed, but it’s really only a small piece of reputable breeding, which is what other members are trying to communicate.


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

Ok and there are other ways to approach someone then basically putting them down. Her comments come off as rude and a snob. I started from a dirt ground no one in my family does anything with dogs so this is all new I learned what I've known from research and talking with other breeders. Everything she's talking about I don't even know half the stuff. Kindness is key in my opinion and being harsh doesn't make you a good person. I haven't even had a litter before so who knows if I'll actually like having litters.


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

knkiehl19 said:


> Ok and there are other ways to approach someone then basically putting them down. Her comments come off as rude and a snob. I started from a dirt ground no one in my family does anything with dogs so this is all new I learned what I've known from research and talking with other breeders. *Everything she's talking about I don't even know half the stuff*. Kindness is key in my opinion and being harsh doesn't make you a good person. I haven't even had a litter before so who knows if I'll actually like having litters.


^^ This is why it is important that you take the time to learn and study all that you can. You admit there is a lot that you don’t know, which is where everyone starts too, myself included. Be a student of the breed. There are so many good books you can pick up to learn about structure, assessing how to choose a pairing, the breed standard,etc. Search literally any topic on the forum and you’ll be able to learn more about it. Also good fb groups you can join to be involved in conversations about all of the above. Do you have a mentor? Have you joined your local golden retriever club? That’d be a great resource for you.


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

Yes the titles and stuff like that I have to look up like I said I just started learning in 2019 when I first got my girl. I didn't realize about the testing and pedigrees I was just excited to finally get a red golden retriever. I enjoy my dogs and their company. The breed is amazing I found that out buying my first golden back in 2016 but I always wanted a red. They are harder to find in my area I traveled a far distance for nico. I am more researching now the feild lines and what it takes to do all that stuff. I learn from hands on then reading.


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

Emmdenn said:


> ^^ This is why it is important that you take the time to learn and study all that you can. You admit there is a lot that you don’t know, which is where everyone starts too, myself included. Be a student of the breed. There are so many good books you can pick up to learn about structure, assessing how to choose a pairing, the breed standard,etc. Search literally any topic on the forum and you’ll be able to learn more about it. Also good fb groups you can join to be involved in conversations about all of the above. Do you have a mentor? Have you joined your local golden retriever club? That’d be a great resource for you.


I talk with breeders and ask questions if I have any.. Local isn't really local about an hour an half drive plus I work every other weekend so makes things harder to work around.


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

Goldens are shades of gold. The range is light gold to dark gold. We do sometimes jokingly refer to them as “red dogs” or “swamp collies”. I get “swamp collie” remarks from some of the lab people I train for hunt and field with. Golden breeders should not advertise red retrievers or English Creams. It’s the very first red flag that we all notice.

I’m sorry your feelings were hurt. I hope you jump into the Golden world with both feet. You will truly learn more then you could imagine by attending events and talking to knowledgeable people. We all have to learn to accept input whether we like it or not in order to improve.

Try being the only female Golden owner (with a CH bred dog) in a group of lab adoring men. I do also own a field bred. The comments are hilarious to me when my dogs do what they should 😊

Prism is one of the best for helping people on this forum. I trust her advice and have owned Goldens for a very long time. I’m the type of person that wants to know and understand EVERYTHING. You’ll never have too much knowledge.


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

knkiehl19 said:


> I started from a dirt ground no one in my family does anything with dogs so this is all new I learned what I've known from research and talking with other breeders.


So did I . My boy, Kaizer, just recently turned 6, so that's exactly how long I've been involved in the dog/golden world. He's my first dog ever, and my parents' first dog too. My parents bought him for me as a pet when I was 14-15, none of us knew anything about dogs, but I did the research and found a breeder that adhered to the GRCA Code of Ethics and proved her dogs in the show ring. Kaizer was a little bit of a handful as a young puppy/adult and had a host of behavioral issues that I unknowingly inflicted on him, so I got super involved in my local training place as a result. I made a lot of really great friends through my training place, which is actually how I ended up with my show prospect bitch. My trainer is friends with Eden's breeder through agility, and that connection is what got me Eden. The ONLY reason that Eden's breeder was willing to place a bitch with full registration with me is because there were people she trusted to vouch for me.

So I guess I have a couple different points with that story.

1) get involved on a local level. Spend lots of time at the training place closest to you. I was at my training place like 5 times a week, helping with classes and taking classes with my own dog. Befriend a lot of people - the dog world (both on a breed level and a sport level) is much smaller than you think it is. 9/10 everyone knows everyone. Make alll of the connections.

2) Attend as many events as you can. I first met Eden's breeder at a dog show in 2018 and then ran into her again at a couple of other dog shows throughout the years (before I got a puppy from her). A familiar face is more trustworthy don't be afraid of some distance either, driving a couple hours one way for a dog event is not unheard of.

3) Don't rush yourself. Truthfully, breeding a litter out of two dogs with a less-than-stellar health background will make it that much harder for you to get a well bred dog in the future - goldens are not hurting for homes and breeders ARE picky! Maybe hold off on breeding your dogs for another couple of years and just explore dog sports, if you're trialing and titling, you're likely to make a lot of connections through that alone!!

I also just wanted to clarify something: realizing that your dogs shouldn't be bred because they don't meet the standard or don't meet the Code of Ethics doesn't mean you love them any less or that they're any less worthy to you.


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

aesthetic said:


> So did I . My boy, Kaizer, just recently turned 6, so that's exactly how long I've been involved in the dog/golden world. He's my first dog ever, and my parents' first dog too. My parents bought him for me as a pet when I was 14-15, none of us knew anything about dogs, but I did the research and found a breeder that adhered to the GRCA Code of Ethics and proved her dogs in the show ring. Kaizer was a little bit of a handful as a young puppy/adult and had a host of behavioral issues that I unknowingly inflicted on him, so I got super involved in my local training place as a result. I made a lot of really great friends through my training place, which is actually how I ended up with my show prospect bitch. My trainer is friends with Eden's breeder through agility, and that connection is what got me Eden. The ONLY reason that Eden's breeder was willing to place a bitch with full registration with me is because there were people she trusted to vouch for me.
> 
> So I guess I have a couple different points with that story.
> 
> ...


I dont think everyone understands that I'm not looking into the show side. My goldens won't ever be a show golden they are feild bred goldens. Which they are shorter hair and have an Athletic look to them. That's what fits my life style. They shed less and their coats are easier to clean when I take my guys horse back riding. Nico's grandfather is a hunt master and is on the cover of duck unlimited magazine.


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

My boy’s great grandfather was the #1 golden and a national specialty winner, but skip forward a few generations and my boys breeder bred his parents without final clearances. Just because there are nice, titled dogs in one generation of a pedigree does not negate or excuse the current generation form needing proper health testing or titling. That’s also like riding on the coattails of the successes of that one dog who’s a MH and his breeder’s success when you’re now 2 generations away from the MH and none of your boys parents have titles or all of the right health clearances, nor does a single dog behind your boys dam.

No one is telling you that you need to go out and start showing in conformation. You could show in field trials, hunt tests, obedience, rally, dock diving, agility etc. Any titles will prove your involvement as well as prove your boy has the bidability and temperament for dog sports. Not only that, but taking him to a CCA could be a great experience for you to get a conformation title and assessment on him.


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

And you don't think I am already trying to get hunt titles on him? I know what he is bred to do I've done my research we will be getting titles. Just bc they are health tested don't make their offspring health tested. It's not all genetics it also has to deal with how the pup was raised from the owners. If you take a puppy out and exercise the crap out of it as a young pup you don't think that plays apart in that as well? Or jumping off of thing to early in life? Their joints are fully formed until they are two hits why ofa doesn't do final scored until they are 2. I've seen well bred goldens with every single parent tested and they failed an ofa exam. Now explain that one then. So just bc your dogs parents and so on are tested doesn't make the final product tested. Yes gives for a better chance but it's also not just genetics at play. It's how they are raised after they come from the breeder.


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

knkiehl19 said:


> I dont think everyone understands that I'm not looking into the show side. My goldens won't ever be a show golden they are feild bred goldens. Which they are shorter hair and have an Athletic look to them. That's what fits my life style. They shed less and their coats are easier to clean when I take my guys horse back riding. Nico's grandfather is a hunt master and is on the cover of duck unlimited magazine.


I think you are mistaken about your idea of people that buy field goldens, and what they need to be.

I own a "field bred" he has some pretty impressive dogs in his pedigree. He's three years old he has his JH, a DS, CGC, and has one successful SH pass. (just started SH) He had health issues as a puppy or he'd be much further along. The only title that really means anything to me is the JH. A field bred Golden is not determined by type. It is determined by ability and titles. 

I own a conformation field bred cross that I bought because his Grandfather is FC/AFC Emberain Beau Geste. He's never been through the hunt test circuit, but boy how I wish I had. He was hunted for many years over open water and is truly an impressive dog, but by the time I got into the hunt tests he was to old.

I also own a completely conformation bred 1 year old that is currently training for field and I'm hoping to title MH (master hunter) and CH (show/conformation CH). Due to the time of year he was born, and where I live, we missed testing for JH when we should have. My trainer mentioned skipping it and going straight to SH. I am still a nervous wreck about the idea. I'm so happy he's proving to be exactly what I had hoped for. When I get as far as I can in the hunt world I will try my best in the show world. At the very least he will get his CCA this winter. When you get a well known trainer, that specializes in labs, to look at your conformation golden in the field and say "he impressed me today" you take note.

When you train for hunt or field you put so many hours and dollars into training that it makes sound structure and health an absolute must. It's not all about the looks, but it is all about proper movement and structure. No one that is trying to produce a top field dog is going to risk a questionable pedigree. Training starts young. Most people know their goals before the puppy hits the ground. We look for certain titles in pedigrees for generations. We look for health clearances for generations. We study K9Data. The titles we look for are higher level titles in hopes to show us potential. No puppy is a guaranteed competitor, but we try as hard as possible to hedge our bets.

That being said my son is strictly a hunter, as he puts it "ribbons mean nothing to me, show me a dog in the field". Yup, he says that to me after every event. His hunting companions pedigrees are impressive to say the least. His 2 year old doesn't have a single dog in a 5 generation pedigree without an FC or AFC title. They ALL have had ALL clearances. The ribbons don't mean a thing to him, but the athletic ability and structure do. He switched to labs because it's easier to find those kind of pedigrees in labs, but he loves to watch a good Golden. He also understands that without those of us seeking those ribbons he would have no proof of ability when looking at a pedigree.

People buying Goldens for hunting or hunt/field, and let me be clear that field is a whole next level, really care about clearances and titles. I'm not saying that you can't find a dog from a lackluster pedigree that will kick but in a hunt test, you can. I'm saying that it's a fluke. People that want a hunting companion or a hunt test prospect are not going to go to a back yard breeder to buy one. They are going to fellow hobby breeders. In hunt/field there is one large kennel name that will pop up in almost every pedigree. 

I understand your love for your dogs. The thing with dogs is the more you do with them the more you learn. The more you train the better you get. The more dogs your around the more you see how capable they really are. We do need more breeders in Goldens. We do not need more dogs produced with bad elbow, hips, or even genetic issues. In pedigrees with 5 generations of clearances you will find the odd pup that doesn't pass hips or elbows, but as people that love the breed it is our job to support those that do everything right. I'm not discouraging you from your want to become a breeder. I hope that before you try your hand at breeding you will get more involved in the breed. I will also say that I noticed in a lot of your comments that you talk about having a full time job, not having time to go to events...... I understand all of that, but what if you produce a littler of puppies and something goes wrong with your bitch? Do you have the financial means to save her? It happens more often then you would believe. If my youngest pup makes it to MH I will seriously consider studding him out. First, he will finish his clearances. Second, he will get his CCA. (hopefully more then that) I would probably also try for some obedience titles during winter months. I will have some people on this forum look at him, and the pedigree of whomever would want to use him, and tell me what they honestly think. I'd be open to criticism. There are no perfect dogs. 

Put yourself in the right circles to learn and then you will understand. No one is trying to put your dogs down. We all love all of our dogs. If your going to get into breeding your going to need to know a lot more then you do right now. If a hunter or hunt test participant called you today they would know you have no idea what your talking about. I'm not saying this to be mean. I truly want you to get the education you need before jumping into the breeding world.


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

Yes I have the money to do a litter and if my dog has problems I can afford to help her. I dont think people want me to succeed bc this is not a supportive page. I'm not going to sit here and read these comments anymore I have better things to do with my time then being on this site. You saying your not putting my dogs down is a lie its all on this photo. My job used to have weekends off well it changed so I work weekend now every other weekend. Get to know someone before you assume everything.. im willing to learn from people that are willing to help out. Like oh good for you for testing your dogs go for you actually working and training them and getting titles. One person has said that the rest of you just keep on pushing needing to do more and more yes I plan to do more and learn more as well it takes time.. Have a good day.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

knkiehl19 said:


> And you don't think I am already trying to get hunt titles on him? I know what he is bred to do I've done my research we will be getting titles. Just bc they are health tested don't make their offspring health tested. It's not all genetics it also has to deal with how the pup was raised from the owners. If you take a puppy out and exercise the crap out of it as a young pup you don't think that plays apart in that as well? Or jumping off of thing to early in life? Their joints are fully formed until they are two hits why ofa doesn't do final scored until they are 2. I've seen well bred goldens with every single parent tested and they failed an ofa exam. Now explain that one then. So just bc your dogs parents and so on are tested doesn't make the final product tested. Yes gives for a better chance but it's also not just genetics at play. It's how they are raised after they come from the breeder.





knkiehl19 said:


> Yes I have the money to do a litter and if my dog has problems I can afford to help her. I dont think people want me to succeed bc this is not a supportive page. I'm not going to sit here and read these comments anymore I have better things to do with my time then being on this site. You saying your not putting my dogs down is a lie its all on this photo. Have a good day.


I wasn't going to try again because I do not believe you understand what is being said to you. DbltrblGolden2 posted a very nice explanation to you- even though you earlier referred to HTs as trials. Hunt master isn't a title- Master Hunter (MH) is. We know you don't know what things are called and we know you don't know what we are even talking about... which is an excellent reason for you not to jump into breeding. You don't know what you are doing. We ALL want you to succeed. You aren't aware of the gift you were given by many on this thread because you are operating from a place of no knowledge and for the breed, we don't want you to make this mistake.
PA is a wonderful place to live if you want to do hunt tests. There are tons of tests there, trainers there, and instead of availing yourself of the tools we've given you, last weekend there was a test @ Springboro, PA. It was on entryexpress.net, the link I gave you earlier- you are spending your energy complaining and feeling criticized when it'd be more useful for your future to spend some time where we're sending you. Someone else posted the infodog link for obedience, agility, conformation- and believe me, if anyone should attend conformation shows, it is the want to be breeder- how else will you know what is correct? If you say to us, 'not interested I have a field pedigree', that may be so (though as was earlier explained, you do not have a field pedigree- you have a pedigree that's largely a black hole with some field titles in it thru HRC), but seeing where your own dogs lack via attending conformation shows, and doing a CCA (this is the 4th time that has been mentioned yet you have not asked what it is and can give you) would put you way above the average BYB who health tests. Maegan offered to meet you at a show- I imagine you won't find the time to do that, even though that too is a gift to a person we do not know but care about getting a good start with the breed we love.
We can explain to you the few questions you've asked such as how a dog fails OFAs when he has a deep pedigree of clearances, but I don't think you are ready for the answer to that question. You seem to imagine putting two dogs together is a good idea, and to quote your earlier posit 'I may not even like breeding' as if that were a reason to not invest in doing it right the first time ... well, that just shows how young you are.
I'm sorry for you and the offense you took to my posts and others. Clearly you are not ready to be a good breeder. You stumbled onto the MOST supportive page there is if only you could recognize support when you get it.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

PS there is a wonderful breeder education webinar featuring a field person- 



 Jackie Mertens and there are more than just this one- but you would do well to hear what Jackie says and appreciate her words. And then watch the other webinars available thru BEC. There's one a month. And find a CCA event.


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

knkiehl19 said:


> Yes I have the money to do a litter and if my dog has problems I can afford to help her. I dont think people want me to succeed bc this is not a supportive page. Have a good day.


I think your taking these comments all the wrong way. I'm not being smart, or trying to be rude. I know I can afford to take care of a bitch if I had a litter and issues, but the thought has always stopped me short of getting into owning females. I know many breeders that spend way more then they will ever make off a litter on the care of either the bitch, or the litter. What I was trying to bring to light was the level of commitment it takes. Breeders are not getting rich off having puppies. I've owned Goldens for many years. I believe we do need more breeders, and younger ones. I've thought about getting into it because I think I would do it for the right reasons. I still question if I'm willing to take it on at this stage in my life. It's a huge commitment. That's all I was trying to say.

The people on this page are extremely helpful and supportive. We are not all sunshine and roses, but when your in need you will find help and compassion here. We may be trying to help you not end up in need.

I'm aware of who your boys grandfather is. I have the No. 2 2018 Duck Stamp print hanging in my living room featuring Titan. It was done by Daniel Allard. Mark Atwater does amazing photography and has amazing dogs. I'd love to be at an event Mark was doing photography for. Get that boy of yours involved in some hunt tests and then worry about breeding him. His father was bred underage so make sure you get full clearances on him. He's not even 1 year old yet, he has a lot of growing and training left to do. Enjoy him and worry about breeding 3 years from now. I'm just pointing out that no matter who your boys paternal grandsire is there are red flags in his breeding to anyone that is going to look. Most people that I know look at things like that. The golden world is smaller then you think. Go out and enjoy the dogs you have. Training for hunt/field is demanding and takes up a ton of time. It's also fun and the people are great! Hope we meet some day at an event. If I see your boy listed in the running order I'll make sure to watch. We all try to support one another.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

The invitation is still open. I'll be showing in New Castle for four days - June 24-27 and entries are still open if you want to do the next level of Rally with your girl and/or do Rally Novice with your boy. I will be showing in conformation, not Rally, but I'll have down time in between shows. Hopefully meeting some nice people in person and watching will better explain what people are trying to say here. It's hard over the internet sometimes.

Good structure is extremely important for field and performance dogs. Without it, they are prone to injury and break down quicker than they should. I hope you watch the webinar and listen to what Jackie has to say. It's wise and interesting.

It may not seem like it, but the people on this thread are trying to help you become the best breeder that you can be. That being said, we are also trying to help you understand that there is more to ethical, responsible breeding than just getting clearances on the dogs you currently own.


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

Prism Goldens said:


> PS there is a wonderful breeder education webinar featuring a field person-
> 
> 
> 
> Jackie Mertens and there are more than just this one- but you would do well to hear what Jackie says and appreciate her words. And then watch the other webinars available thru BEC. There's one a month. And find a CCA event.


Honestly I don't really care what you say. You burnt your bridge with me. I believe your a terrible person on the inside and out. You could have been like if you would like more info I could gladly tell you more. But no you didn't do it that way you just attack. Why would anyone want to take word from you just attacking someone that's just starting out. Maybe think before you talk to someone that would like to learn more about feild bred golden retrievers.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

knkiehl19 said:


> Honestly I don't really care what you say. You burnt your bridge with me. I believe your a terrible person on the inside and out. You could have been like if you would like more info I could gladly tell you more. But no you didn't do it that way you just attack. Why would anyone want to take word from you just attacking someone that's just starting out. Maybe think before you talk to someone that would like to learn more about feild bred golden retrievers.


I've just read through this entire thread and am completely at a loss to understand this comment. Everyone's responses have been very helpful. Prism has literally decades of experience in breeding golden retrievers. If I were thinking of starting a breeding program, I would have considered myself very lucky to come across someone like her who was willing to give advice and help - especially if, like you, I only had a couple of years of experience with the breed and very little knowledge of what actually goes into a great breeding program. She certainly didn't attack you.

I'm not a breeder, nor do I aspire to be one. However, I'm an experienced golden retriever owner and a very experienced agility handler and competitor. When I buy a puppy from a breeder, I rely on that breeder to match me with the right puppy. Because I do agility with my dogs, I tend to look at field and performance lines. After that, I rely entirely on the breeder to recommend the right pairing - one that will produce dogs with the temperament, biddability and athletic frame that an agility dog needs - and to raise the pups in an environment that will prepare them well for agility, and to select the puppy out of the litter that is most likely to be happy with the kind of life I'm able to offer it.

So, as a puppy buyer, what I look for is a breeder who has the knowledge to advise me and steer me in the right direction. Since I'm looking at field and performance lines, I look for a breeder who is active in some kind of performance sport: obedience, agility, field, hunt, etc. Why? Because they will know what I mean by the term "biddability". They will know what kind of dog does best in a competitive sport home. They will raise the pups in a way that prepares them well for this kind of activity. They will do temperament testing. They will know the different traits to look for in a pup, depending on whether it's destined for a future hunt, field or performance sport home. And especially in field lines, I look for a breeder who is familiar with all the genetic and other issues that can arise from the wrong pairing. 

As a buyer, pretty much the last thing I'm interested in is the colour of the dog or the fact that one of its grandparents was on the cover of a magazine.

Being a good breeder involves a lot more than buying a couple of dogs, putting a couple of basic titles on them, then breeding them and selling the pups. All the advice you've been given about attending shows, talking to experienced people, getting involved in dog sports, is spot on. If you're going to be breeding field lines, you're going to be dealing with a lot of knowledgeable puppy buyers. The breeder of my current performance dog is among those featured in the wonderful video series that Prism recommended in her last post - the one you dismissed out of hand. There is such a wealth of knowledge in those videos. They are fascinating. Your comments in this thread suggest that you don't even know enough, yet, to realize what you just turned down.

If you're serious about becoming a good breeder, the first step is to know what you don't know and listen to people who can help you learn it.

Best of luck. I hope things work out for you.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

If you are interested in obtaining a CCA on your dogs, here is where you can find information out about that program.  CCA - Certificate of Conformation Assessment - Golden Retriever Club of America (grca.org) 

I prowl the upcoming events page (CCA Events - Golden Retriever Club of America (grca.org)) to try to find one in my area. They don't frequently come to the West Coast but I see two pending events rn, one in MA and one in FL.


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

ceegee said:


> I've just read through this entire thread and am completely at a loss to understand this comment. Everyone's responses have been very helpful. Prism has literally decades of experience in breeding golden retrievers. If I were thinking of starting a breeding program, I would have considered myself very lucky to come across someone like her who was willing to give advice and help - especially if, like you, I only had a couple of years of experience with the breed and very little knowledge of what actually goes into a great breeding program. She certainly didn't attack you.
> 
> I'm not a breeder, nor do I aspire to be one. However, I'm an experienced golden retriever owner and a very experienced agility handler and competitor. When I buy a puppy from a breeder, I rely on that breeder to match me with the right puppy. Because I do agility with my dogs, I tend to look at field and performance lines. After that, I rely entirely on the breeder to recommend the right pairing - one that will produce dogs with the temperament, biddability and athletic frame that an agility dog needs - and to raise the pups in an environment that will prepare them well for agility, and to select the puppy out of the litter that is most likely to be happy with the kind of life I'm able to offer it.
> 
> ...


Like I said before she isn't someone I'd want to be and I'll gladly take advise from someone other than prims goldens. Also there are many breeders out there why pick on someone trying to learn. All I said was he is my stud prospect and the woman goes out on a war rage on a photo thread. If I asked for advice on the photo I would have put it on a different thread..

Thanks


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

Brave said:


> If you are interested in obtaining a CCA on your dogs, here is where you can find information out about that program.  CCA - Certificate of Conformation Assessment - Golden Retriever Club of America (grca.org)
> 
> I prowl the upcoming events page (CCA Events - Golden Retriever Club of America (grca.org)) to try to find one in my area. They don't frequently come to the West Coast but I see two pending events rn, one in MA and one in FL.


Thank you ill check this out!


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

knkiehl19 said:


> Like I said before she isn't someone I'd want to be and I'll gladly take advise from someone other than prims goldens. Also there are many breeders out there why pick on someone trying to learn. All I said was he is my stud prospect and the woman goes out on a war rage on a photo thread. If I asked for advice on the photo I would have put it on a different thread..
> 
> Thanks





Prism Goldens said:


> Do you mean you have hopes of a stud career?
> Neither of his parents have clearances and only two of the four grandparents have anything on OFA.


Just to set this one straight- I did not say word one about the photo. Just the clearances behind him. 
And I hate to tell you this, but I have forgotten more about field Goldens than you'll ever know. 
So- hate on me all you want for being the bearer of the bad news but the news is the news. I had nothing to do with creating the dog or the bitch, and nothing to do with what is true here. One day if you can let yourself realize what you do not know, you'll know that what I said was true.


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

Prism Goldens said:


> Just to set this one straight- I did not say word one about the photo. Just the clearances behind him.
> And I hate to tell you this, but I have forgotten more about field Goldens than you'll ever know.
> So- hate on me all you want for being the bearer of the bad news but the news is the news. I had nothing to do with creating the dog or the bitch, and nothing to do with what is true here. One day if you can let yourself realize what you do not know, you'll know that what I said was true.


I'll prove that he was worth it! I think my boy is perfect he makes me smile and brings joy to my life. I will trust me.


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

You are gonna need thicker skin if you want to be in this community. Robin is way more kind that some of my mentors who would slap me upside the head if I did something stupid. Learn to take constructive criticism sooner rather than later.


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

knkiehl19 said:


> Like I said before she isn't someone I'd want to be and I'll gladly take advise from someone other than prims goldens. Thanks


This person that "isn't someone you'd want to be" is a very respected breeder in Goldens. She produces amazing versatile dogs. That's not what this comment is about though. I bought a "field bred" several years ago from a breeder. All the clearances were in place for all generations. I was referred to the litter by a well known golden hunt/field trainer. I felt confident about my purchase. I had been in contact with one of the breeders that was supposed to be on that video I don't think you've watched, and it shortened my wait time to jump on this litter. Everything was great until one day it wasn't. My puppy was in field training with a pro and I got a phone call that he had a limp. What ensued was weeks and months of medical tests and dollars spent with no answers. I posted on this very forum desperate for help and answers. My breeder told me to put the puppy to sleep and he'd give me a replacement from a repeat breeding. The problem was the issue I was facing was genetic, I also knew of another puppy from the litter with an even more serious genetic problem. Neither genetic problem was something we test for in standard Golden testing. I got lucky compared to the other puppy. He was surrendered to a rescue. I would under no circumstances put my puppy to sleep, or support a repeat breeding. 

Prism reached out to me. I didn't know her and she had absolutely nothing to gain by helping me. She reviewed my boys x-rays, she put me in contact with vets she knew. She had people look at his test results and offer opinions. She was there for me like I had hoped his breeder would be. This is absolutely the kind of breeder I want to support. I gained a ton of knowledge going through the issues my boy had. I also gained a ton of respect for the Golden community. Trust me when I say it's smaller and tighter knit then you would ever believe. I had people from at least 5 different states reach out to me in an effort to help. I had two golden retriever rescue organizations offer me the use of the ortho vets they have contracted to deal with the rescue dogs they bring in. 

Thinking your boy is perfect is part of the problem. What if the OFA's don't come back the way you expect? It happens. That puppy with the genetic problems I'm talking about has full OFA clearances. Does that mean I should breed him? He's earned titles, does that outweigh that I know he isn't perfect? You would absolutely never know by looking at him that he had a flaw. I don't love him one bit less. I may love him more. He ran his first SH series test and was the only golden to pass. I almost cried I was so happy. This little dog that shouldn't be able to run. 

Why did I go back to a conformation line for my third boy? I'll bet Prism can answer that question. Can you answer it? Watch that video and listen closely to what Jackie Mertens has to say about field bred goldens. I so wish Edwina Ryska would have been on that chat. 

My conformation boy is really close to perfect. He's getting a lot of attention right now from the people that have seen him. I've been approached about putting him in the show ring. I've earned respect from some hard core field people that thought I had lost my mind when I pulled him out of his crate the first time. Even he has a little tiny flaw that draws my eye. Is it a flaw or is it not? I'm not sure, but when it's time I'll have someone like Prism tell me what they think. If I was going to breed him it would be the one thing I wanted to try and correct. It may just be a grooming problem. I just don't know enough yet to make up my mind. We all have things that we need to learn and people that we can learn from. I'd love to go to Prisms' and just spend a week having her teach me the things I don't know. 

My final thought is that I worry about your confrontational attitude when you don't like what your being told. How would you handle puppy buyers when issues arise? If your going to get into hunt training you definitely need a thicker skin. I'm pretty unflappable and even I have to take a deep breath some days. I had a pro trainer tell me one of my dogs was junk. Think that one doesn't sting? This past weekend he saw the same exact dog run a double and asked where I got him. I smiled and said that's the same boy you thought was junk. It gave me great pleasure to watch him squirm and my new trainer smile. We both laughed and I went on with my training. 

Best of luck!


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

knkiehl19 said:


> I'll prove that he was worth it! I think my boy is perfect he makes me smile and brings joy to my life. I will trust me.


I hope you do - please come back and let us know when he gets his Junior and again when he does more. 
Regardless of what he does, if he brings you joy he is doing his job


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

I do get defensive about my boy as I'm sure anyone would. I'd like to do the right thing and if he doesn't fit then I guess he is just my pet. But im willing to give it a shot. I have big hopes and dreams for him so I really hope we can fulfill the dreams.


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

knkiehl19 said:


> I do get defensive about my boy as I'm sure anyone would. I'd like to do the right thing and if he doesn't fit then I guess he is just my pet. But im willing to give it a shot. I have big hopes and dreams for him so I really hope we can fulfill the dreams.


I really hope you do well. There are a lot of great people in Goldens. We all try to support one another. I should be doing a lot of testing in late summer/early fall of this year. I'm trying to figure out a plan with my puppy. I was thinking I'd be doing JH now, but my trainer wants to work on SH water stuff while the weather is hot. If you want to show up at a hunt test and get an inside look I'd be more then happy to have you tag along and meet some people. I just have no schedule at the minute. There is a test in Elkton MD this coming weekend. Join a local hunt training group with your boy. You need people to train with and it's a great way to meet new people. It doesn't have to be a golden based group. I train with mostly labs.


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> I really hope you do well. There are a lot of great people in Goldens. We all try to support one another. I should be doing a lot of testing in late summer/early fall of this year. I'm trying to figure out a plan with my puppy. I was thinking I'd be doing JH now, but my trainer wants to work on SH water stuff while the weather is hot. If you want to show up at a hunt test and get an inside look I'd be more then happy to have you tag along and meet some people. I just have no schedule at the minute. There is a test in Elkton MD this coming weekend. Join a local hunt training group with your boy. You need people to train with and it's a great way to meet new people. It doesn't have to be a golden based group. I train with mostly labs.


Thank you! I'm going to look into that CCA title and get more information about it. I'm not sure how old he needs to be he is only 9 months old right now. So I'm not sure if he needs to be 1 or even older. But id like to get him that if possible if he qualifies. We are going to a trainer this month to go over a WC training I'm excited to learn and see him work😊. Maybe I could tag along where are you located at?


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

CCA- 18 mo old, not a day younger.


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## knkiehl19 (Sep 21, 2020)

Prism Goldens said:


> CCA- 18 mo old, not a day younger.


Ok thank you so we got a little ways to wait for something like that. Is there anything I should train for like needs to know?


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

knkiehl19 said:


> Ok thank you so we got a little ways to wait for something like that. Is there anything I should train for like needs to know?


CCA - Certificate of Conformation Assessment - Golden Retriever Club of America has 4 separate pages of info- read all of them for background, including the how-to pages on putting an event on (some of that will give you set up and how it's run which is always useful to know) and there's a 'what to expect' on the entrants page that when you read thru should make a list of questions if you don't know what some of the terms are. I tried to write it as simply as possible but it does assume some knowledge of ring procedure, etc. When you see an event on the calendar, jump on it as long as your dog is going to be old enough on the day of the event (18 mo) because they fill super fast...
When your girl is 18 mo old try to get her in too- since she too is part of your equation and will help you to decide if he is a good match for her, filling those things for her that she lacks (because there are no perfect dogs and all dogs can use a thoughtful matching). It takes a 75 to get a qualifying leg, and 3 legs to earn the title which is now an AKC title (it has always been a GRCA title) with application to include on the pedigree. There are 3 evaluators at each event so it can be a one and done day for you if your dog gets 75+ from each of the 3 evaluators there.
Teach your dog to stand for exam, and to move correctly (on your left side). Each evaluator will want to see a down and back (which is going away from the judge and back to the judge in a straight line so judge can see front and rear movement0 and maybe side movement (which would be accomplished by a circle or by a diagonal). So that's 3 times in a day dog will have to move for someone. Each evaluator will also need to be able to go over the dog using hands so a stand stay is handy- it lets you get as much as you can from your time w that evaluator.
Bring a clean dog, no need for perfect grooming, these are all evaluators who know how to look past and through the grooming.
It's an amazing educational program and one I wish every new breeder would use to help themselves learn what they have. It wasn't originally meant as a breeding tool but has evolved as such, so ... the people spoke! I would even say it is the single best tool one can have if one only had one tool in the toolbox.


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