# I am feeling like a bad owner...like I can do nothing right...I need help...



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Absolutely there is hope for you and Maggie! {{{{{hugs}}}}} 

She is just being your typical teenage dog right now. You definitely should start practicing NLIF with her, she sounds like a very independent, self thinker, so working for what she wants will engage her mind and make her more responsive. Get books on clicker training also, I think she will do well with clicker training, again it makes them think and figure out what they did that got the click/treat.

What motivates her? Food, a special toy? Find what grabs her interest and use that as your lure to motivate her to work with you. 

Is your breeder close enough and someone you could call to ask for a reference to a trainer? If not, check with the online lists at APDT, there may some trainers you are not aware of that would be convenient to you.

http://www.apdt.com/po/ts/default.aspx

Maggie is obviously very different from Olympia, and your heart may not have been quite ready for another. It's hard not compare them and it's ok to miss and want that special girl back, 18 years of your life she was always there for you, of course you miss her.

Try to focus on the things you like about Maggie. It will get better. Six months from now you may look back and realize Maggie has become your heart dog too. You are not a failure!


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

oh I can feel your sadness through your post and I can identify with you a little. When we got Tilly as a 12 week old pup I knew instantly that something was not quite right. She was very aloof and wanted to be outside by herself all the time. I wold be knelt on the floor with my happiest voice calling her and she would just ignore me completely and not respond to toys or any kind of play. I would be in tears often! I am absolutely sure in my mind that Tilly had overbonded with the remaining littermates as she had very little human interaction since the pups spent most of thier time outside....and she had been living like that until she was 3 months old. So although I felt I knew the reason why my puppy was very aloof (almost cat like!) it didn't really help when all I wanted was a happy, loving puppy. Anyway, the point of me telling you this is to give you hope that things do change. Tilly at 6 months was not the same dog I had at 2 or 3 years old. Although she will never be a clingy, overly affectionate dog she does love tickles and comes up for cuddles when she wants. A 6 month old pup is still very much interested in the world around them rather than just you so I think you will find that she will become more loving and affactionate as time goes on. I think you also need to tap into what makes her tick to assist your training with her. Does she respond best to a toy, treat or praise? Work on what she responds best to and then use it in your training. When do you feel closest to her? Is there an activity that you do where you see her responding to you?? I remember with Tilly I found that when we went on walks in woodland she always kept a much closer eye on me as she couldn't always see me because of the trees...in flat fields and farmland she was off as she could see me for miles so I made sure all are recall training was in the woods where she responded best to me. It sounds like the main problem is building up the bond between you two. Try and do the things she enjoys more...does she enjoy to be brushed? That was another thing I bonded with Tilly over as she would always fall asleep as she got so relaxed. If you can attend a training class I think that would help as she will get used to listening to you and Im sure the trainer will help you with other ideas when she can see you together. 

It is so hard not to compare her with your beloved Olympia...and it must hurt that you are having these problems with her but Im sure you can get a much, much stronger relationship with her over time. She may always be slightly independent as that is just her nature (and believe me it is sometimes a good thing!) but I definitely feel you have lots to work on, she is still very young and they change so much as they mature.

Good luck and lots of hugs!! Im sure others will be by to offer much more advice x


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## Golden Leo (Dec 3, 2008)

I am very sorry for your lost. I don't want to imagine what it's like to lose your friend.
I have found myself in your story. You shouldn't be hard on yourself. You are great owner! Too few would see this on that way and that's what makes you a good owner.
I am not a trainer but I hope some of my advices can help you.
First you need to make a contact with her. Every time you speak to her, aks her to look at you in the eyes- make an eye-contact with her. Then you'll know she listens to you. Try to imagine when you're on playground with your children- they see many interesting things, many kids and you're trying to tell them something and they keep on buzzing around. What is going on in their mind? You're saying- kids come over here. And in their's mind is sth like this- oh, cool playground.(kids) I wonder if I can climbe that tree.(come) oh, look at this toy.(over) wow! I wish I have it. (here). They hear it in between of their thoughts but they don't register it. If you learn that everytime you call her she looks at you- you'll have her attention. And once you have her attention you can ask her to do what you want. 
For any unwanted behaviour you have to punish her and show her who is alpha.
And most important- when you're working with her, try to calm yourself down. I had that problem. Dog feels that you're nervous, frustrated and he gets anxious also.
I wish you all the luck, I know you will succeed! And when you make a rule -don't do any exceptions.
I don' know if any of this helps you....


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

I am very sorry for your loss of Olympia. I don't have any advice but what you are describing sounds exactly how a lot of our puppies behaved. My Charlie was the same way at 6 months and by the time he was a year old things started to get much better. I remember hubby taking Charlie out at that age to pee and when he came in his jeans were almost completely torn off of him. Could it be that your mind blocked out how it was to have a puppy? We just got Howie 2 weeks ago and I totally forgot how Charlie was when he was a puppy but it all came back to me very quickly. Hang in there, it will get better.


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## diana_D (Jan 27, 2008)

Try to cuddle up a lot with her. Keep treats at your face level, this way she will establish eye contact. Try to establish a bond, and take it in very small steps. Whenever she does something good, be happy, she will learn soon how to make you happy.

I feel for you so deeply and I know exactly how you feel, but trust me, there is plenty of love to give to your sweet Maggie, and she will return it thousands of times. Just give yourself a little time, and forget about training for a bit, and establish that bond. It will be very rewarding for the two of you. 

And don't forget they feel and sense whatever we're thinking, and she might be frustrated because she can't fill in someone else's shoes yet. 

And you're not bad, you're terribly hurt and it will take some time for you to heal. Whenever frustration builds up, avoid your Maggie.


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## goldensmum (Oct 23, 2007)

Take heart - the relationship will be there in time. Not all puppies are cuddle monsters - Quinn as a pup did not like to be held or cuddled, he was too busy finding other things to do, but now at 15 months old he loves to come and lay on his bag and have his feet rubbed. Ginny, who I lost at 15 loved to be cuddled and near me from day one, and i will be the first to admit that I compared Quinn to Ginny even though I knew it was unfair on him.

As others have said, find what triggers Maggies interest - with Quinn it is food - he would sell his soul to the devil for a biscuit, or it may be a favourite toy. If there is a favourite toy, then restrict Maggies access to it, and she only has it when she is with you. You can start training on your own - making her sit and wait for her dinner is a start, practice walking on the lead in the house. Try using a dog whistle - when she responds give her a treat - whether it is food or a toy, Maggie will soon pick up that when the whistle blows she gets something good. but always make sure that you finish on a winning note and finish before YOU start to get frustrated. Despite what you may think at the moment, Goldens can be very sensitive and your frustration is probably being picked up by Maggie. Is it possible to speak to the trainer and ask for some help/tips that you could be starting on your own.

I am sure that the bond will come - you have to give it time - respect works both ways and it does not come automatically - nor will it come if you try to force it.

Good Luck


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## jzgrlduff (Feb 15, 2008)

I'm reading your thread and saying to myself "Yea, that was Macy. Yes, that was Macy, too", as well as some of the replies. We got Macy in May when she was 6 months old. We took her in from my sister who got her as a Xmas present from her kids. :no: Anyway, I noticed right away how independant she was! I let the 3 dogs out back, and I would go and see what they're doing, and she's way up in the corner by herself, sniffing something or just looking around. 


> She does not listen....she does not come when I ask her too....she bites on the leash when we go for a walk....she pulls me when I walk her...she now at almost six months old bites my hand hard when I brush her or do something kind for her.....she jumps up on people....she jumps at the table...the counters.


YES YES YES!!! Macy did all of that at that age. It took *patience and consistancy* from me, and it paid off. It took awhile for her to calm down on walks. I put treats in my left pocket. I make her sit so I can put her leash on, then she gets an enthusiastic "GOOD SIT!" and a treat. I also make her sit if a car or a bike or a walker/jogger comes by when we are on our walk. Same thing, "good sit", treat. Let's see...for the biting, I taught her "no bite". I think I just said it everytime she mouthed someone, and she eventually got it. Reward with treat and "GOOD NO BITE!". I taught her "off" when she jumps, same thing, treat and "GOOD OFF!". She already knew "off" because that was the 1st thing I taught her after she stole butter and a tomato off the counter. I caught her up there, gently put back on all 4 feet while saying "OFF". Reward w/treat.

Today she is 14 months, and while still not perfect, she learned these things very quickly and has bonded with my husband and I. 

I'm so sorry about your loss. You have to try not to think of her as replacing Olympia, you have to think of her as another life for you to teach and love and bond with. 

Good luck with her. Don't give up, it will get better!


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## mainegirl (May 2, 2005)

my golden sandy died (hit by a car) in front of our house at age 14.5 aug. 2006. i only lasted until october without a golden (we had one, but he was so lonely) angel came 5 months old, wild and independent. i was so busy that i didn't establish a bond with her until almost a year later. i had to work on it and spend time at her level and catch her when she was good and good and tired. she is still independent, but loves to get up on the sofa next to me and sleep. it is still a work in progress 2 years later and i still miss sandy and her gentle ways, but angel will grow to be the best she can and that's great with me, now!!!
beth, moose and angel

it will come in time.


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## bluetou (Oct 13, 2008)

thank you all so much, would you believe I wrote a long message, and my maggie jumped up and hit the keyboard, and erased it totally.....
I had a post to each and every one of you individually.....ugh...sorry I can not go and type it out again....

I want to thank you all for taking the time and helping me with your posts. Thanks for understanding my loss with Olympia, it is very difficult and a hard subject for me still...I know my Mother said to me the other day that she found I was not giving my heart to Maggie, she said I was holding back...and I am sure she is right. And I am sure Maggie can sense this.

I mean do not get me wrong...I have given Maggie everything from day one when we first picked her up....i gave her my love my hugs, my warmth, kisses, everything....but when I saw I was not getting it back...as she is aloof and independent and defiant, I kind of turned the other cheek(very childish...I know....).

SO I am going to try and go back to that person I was when I FIRST got her, and see if I can see some positive changes in her. INSTEAD of labelling her and expecting her to do bad....

I mean I do spend time training her. I work only three days a week and for only a few hours I am gone (as I teach yoga)....I am never away from her more then two hours. I love her and I am always rushing home to be with her. I always find I just get so frustrated...cause when I do rush home to be with her....and get her leashed up....and we go for a walk, she pulls me....(so my back is sore, my arm/shoulder aches)....or she takes off....she jumps on someone....and I feel defeated.....
She also bites the leash and growls.....if I try to do any type of imbilicle cord training, she does not like me to take control at all


THEN when we get back from our walk....and I brush her...she will bite me....I TELL HER "OFF"...and she bites harder....and harder....until she finally lets go...but she has almost drawn blood....

When we sit to eat....she jumps up...so we leash her....(a long leash)...so she can still be in the same room with us but unable to jump up...and she barks and barks and barks...so we crate her....I try to have her lie down before I do this.......I got up from my chair 15 times three nights in a row, to show her to lay down on her bed....but she was defiant and jumped, and barked...so we crate her....

is there hope??? is this normal behaviour???

I hope so, because I wlil continue to be persistent and patient if I know she will eventually obey...I just feel after weeks of doing this it would sink in.....

I do not mean to sound so up and down...but you can see my challenge...I am going to start with a fresh slate. I promise you ...and we are going to start fresh and I am going to give it a full heart and love.

I will try everyone's tips, there was something recieved out of everyones email....more eye contact, more bonding, more communication, use a clicker....etc...I will do it.

Thank you...((HUGS)) to you all and thank you.

"blue"...maggie's mom


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## diana_D (Jan 27, 2008)

it's a typical puppy behavior  She will be over it with consistent training. It takes time, indeed, but it will pay off.

Emma used to jump all over us+the table while we were eating, even grabbing our arms in order to try to get food. Now she sits patiently under the table (she chose that place) until we finish. We just ignored her rude behavior and told her NO and OFF(when she was jumping up on us/table). Barking in order to get attention is pretty much the same thing. If your Maggie is food obsessed like Emma, it will take a bit until she stops. But she will


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## bluetou (Oct 13, 2008)

*Snif...thank you all...*

WOULD YOU BELIEVE I FOUND THE POST!!! SO MAGGIE HIT A BUTTON, but she did not delete all my work...so I thought I would send this along.....

Thank you all so much. I guess I kind of hit a concrete wall....I mean I really give Maggie everything...I walk her, I play with her, I brush her, I love her....I do it all...my kids (three of them)...are in school all day, and I only work three days a week and am only gone for two hours to work. (I teach yoga) SO I am NEVER gone from her long. I would always rush home to be with her...so I guess at this point in our relationship...I feel defeated.....

I have to thank you all so much for your positive replies and helpful emails. I truly needed each of them. I know in my heart my love for Olympia will never go and you are right Mylissyk, we may have gotten another dog a bit too early.....and you are right they are both so different, and I realize I have done a lot of comparing during my new relationship with Maggie. And this is something I Need to change NOW. It is not fair to Maggie. Since reading the posts I have been changing my attitude and voice tone, and facial expressions for her today. I am truly trying to be a better person for her. (not that I wasn't....but in my heart I think I was cheating her .....cheating her of my love)....I think deep down I am scared....Olympia was such an amazing dog to me, and I think I am scared of loss, of hurt and pain again...maybe letting another Golden furry enter my heart...for fear....

I do know the bond has been harder due to her independent attitude and aloofness towards me.
"emma and tilly"...this happens to me....Maggie is gone when we are just in my back yard....but when we are out in the woods she will run ahead...but she always looks back and comes to me to make sure I am still near and she is safe. 

golden leo, I never thought of it the way you described...how their minds are so curious and that they are thinking and doing so much and taking so much in of Mother Nature....that it is hard for them to sometimes tune in and listen...I will make sure I am more aware of this and take this into consideration as her nose is knee deep into the grass. :smooch: I have also been working on more eye contact today (since you mentioned it)... 

Charlie and Howie's Mom, thanks for your story....letting me know that your Charlie was like my Maggie....I know some of this is just puppy stuff...but I do know some of it is behaviour also...and this is what I hope will change...I know in time it will...as it did for you.

THank you Diana, it is true...I know she can sense what I am feeling...today I made a promise to do better, thank you for your touching email...

Goldensmom....thanks for your tips. So do you mean if she loves to get her KONG...to only give it to her if I am going to sit with her while she eats it? (i can do this) Maggie is also a LOVER of food...she is crazy over anything she can get her chompers on. So treats she will do anything for. My biggest problem is sometimes I do not have them close by, so I need to get in the habbit of placing them in my pocket at all times. She knows her commands, her "OFF" command is something I use for everything, if she is biting, if she is jumping....so I guess I need to have treats a bit closer to my body...but she tends to only do things for treats....ugh...i hope this changes, cause i do not always have treats handy...

Amy, it is funny how you really explained to be enthusiastic on whatever she does...in the beginning I was so excited and thrilled with her sitting and giving a paw...etc...and I know lately I have taken her SITS, and STAYS for grantit. So today I started praising everything she is doing, sitting, staying, peeing...etc...(she is kind of looking at me wierd...like where is all this coming from....but her tail is wagging, so I know she is happy with my response)...thank you for this reminder. Patience I have, it is consistency I sometimes get wrapped out of.....three young kids...(and a husband...)....sometimes we get lazy with the consistency, but I have been trying to be more consistent. Thank you. 

Mainegirl, thanks for sharing your story. I am sorry for your loss of your beloved Golden...how sad...thankyou for sharing your story.

Thank you all for your posts, I appreciate all of them, I am now going to go and give Maggie a big ((HUGS))...thank you all....(sigh....)

/blue maggie's mom
`


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Our Penny tried my patience almost everyday for a long time. Our first Golden was so calm. She never bit, not even as a puppy. She loved to be brushed, she didn't beg or bark or chew our stuff. And that was with NO TRAINING whatsoever. She was just a totally submissive, quiet dog. We thought all Goldens were like that.

Ten years after we lost our first Golden, we got Penny. And we were thrown in chaos from the first moment. Penny bit us constantly, grabbed our feet, buckled me at the back of my knees so I fell down, wrapped her paw around our ankle from behind us so we couldn't walk...gosh, she was a terror. Independent, not a cuddler. I was really beginning to thing I'd made a mistake. And I had no Golden Retriever Forum to go to. :no: We've been through a lot of obedience training which paid off big time. I suggest you find an obedience trainer, even if you have to drive a bit to get there. Classes with other dogs are wonderful and will help you both. You meet other puppy owners going through the same thing.

Our Penny is now almost 7 and is the most perfect dog I could ever imagine. Please hang in there, your Maggie will become and wonderful, lively member of your family just like Penny has. Maggie will never be Olympia just as Penny will never be Polly. But as everyday goes by, I would never want Penny to be any other way.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

I feel for you....the pup you are describing sounds so much like Lucky at that age. Now at three he is the most loving, tender-mouthed, tolerant obedient dog. 

When I had a dog pass on, I always was ready for a puppy pretty quick. It helped me not to grieve. I was still grieiving for my last dog until I got Lucky...5 years after my Beau's death. That said....I did not enjoy Lucky's "puppyhood". 

Keep working with her and you will have a wonderful companion who you will appreciate and love.


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## bluetou (Oct 13, 2008)

thank you so much for your stories (wishihadtwogodlens)(lucky'smom)...your stories are encouraging. I took maggie out for a short walk...and well it was so stressful. NORMALLY when I would take her to the end of the road (just 200 feet)...there is an area of woods we will enter for a little walk (there is a dirt road that leads to an old broken down house)...well NORMALLY she just runds ahead a bit...then come back to me...etc...but today she took off into the woods and was gone about 6 minutes....(it might have been 10)....I called her once to come. AND that was it. SHE NEVER came....I could feel the anger inside of me starting to develop....upset...sad, mad.....(After last night I cuddled with her, lay with her, petted her....for almost two hours)....

She eventually came back...I leashed her and I left....I was upset....(I worried she was gone...etc) 

MY OWN fault I guess for trusting her ...but she never took off before on this walk....SHE ONLY takes OFF in our back yard......but SHE must be getting more confident in her self. Anyway....

I took her home and she bit the leash the entire time...tried to jump on me....ugh...just so madening....

So now she is crated...I have to run some xmas errands. I am hoping for a better day as it goes on....

It is hard...it makes me sad. I am trying. 

I know I need to contact a trainer. The lady I used for one private lesson has put her back out and will not be back into business for another few months....there is another trainer but he is 1.5 hours away...and I live in Nova Scotia....which means, unpredictable winter weather....it is a hard time of year right now for travel. I KNOW she needs training...and needs that atmosphere ...it is a challenge for me right now. 

I do puppy play dates with her....and I DID Find these intitally calmed her down, as the dog she plays with is more of the alpha dog....but she resorts back to her bad behaviour the very next day.....

It is a struggle....BUT I am feeling more positive with your responses, I will continue to keep trying and having faith in her and myself. 

thank you....
blue, maggie's mom....


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## Ronna (Mar 24, 2007)

I can relate totally to your post as the same thing happened to me in 2007. My totally devoted Amanda passed away at 13.5 years and it was like loosing my best friend. I debated about getting another pup, and one day when I watched my Border Collie sitting outside for hours by herself, I knew that she was waiting for her "pal" to come home........it was so sad. I adopted a 8 week old huge golden and brought her home........from the get go she was doing everything wrong and wouldn't listen. She looked at me with those beady eyes and didn't seem to like me.....I couldn't understand why but that was the way it was. I spent hours playing with her, walking her and even sleeping with her on the couch when she was very tired. We got along ok but I was frustrated with her daily. ALL of a sudden everything changed between us...............she became this wonderful loving +++++++++++ baby girl. It was like magic!!!! Hang in there and I am sure the same thing will happen to you.

Ronna
Dallie & Karlie


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Spray the leash down with Bitter Apple spray, it might discourage her from biting it on your walks. You could also try treat luring her during your walks to get her attention on you. In our basic obedience class we did "weenie walking", where we held a treat right in front of their nose to get them to walk with us. For shorter dogs they actually used a wooden spoon with peanut butter smeared on it held in front of their nose. The concept is to get them walking next to you, eventually without luring them. But initially it does give them something to focus on rather than fighting the leash.


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## slechner (Sep 5, 2008)

*I feel like I'm a bad owner*

Well, don't give up. I lost my Oakley in February at the age of 6. He was a cocker spaniel and I absolutely adored him, especially his "I don't give a darn face". Anyway, we got Boomer in July. He is almost eight months old and I have had all the the challenges you mention here. He is far from perfect yet but the "close your mouth" suggestion that one person made is starting to work with Boomer. He is more responsive to this in the morning but overall getting better. If I tell him to get in his crate, which is upstairs, he just looks at me like I have two heads but if I tell him to get in his crate and I am holding a treat, I could be two floors down and he will run up to his crate and wait patiently for me to come upstairs and give him his treat (you gotta love that). Anyway, as I said, he is now behaving better with us but still needs some discipline around the way he behaves when we have visitors but don't give up. There are many positive stories on here. It will get better.

P.S. Boomer loves to eat the nylabones for power chewers. It keeps him busy when he is in the nipping mode. Good luck


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## mygarnetboy (Nov 3, 2008)

You've gotten some very good advice. We got Sherman in July b/c we knew our 14 year old beagle was nearing the end. We had to put him down 10 days after we got Sherman. Going from a 14 year old beagle (who pretty much slept near me all the time) to an active Golden puppy has been so difficult at times. Truly--I've been at the end of my rope more than once. He has a great trainer and has had six weeks of day training at this point and I work w/him every single day. He's 7 1/2 months old. And he's a good puppy (no counter surfing, very little mouthing these days) but he's such a PUPPY! And going from an old dog to a puppy is hard. It just is.

The last week of training and transitioning him to an e collar have made all the difference for us. Also--the days he gets to play w/his friends in the neighborhood (today he got to play w/another golden, a dane and a boxer) are truly our best days. He really needs that play time w/other dogs--they wear him out in a way that his human family just can't do. After the holidays, he'll be going to doggy day care once a week just to wear him out. 

Keep working with her. It will come. And if you feel yourself losing your patience--that's what the crate is for!


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## For the Love of Goldens (Dec 11, 2006)

We recently got a puppy after have a golden for 10 years. Yep, she wants to bite, play and chew and sometimes I loose my patience and tell her stop. Of course, she doesn't know what that means and thinks I want to play with her. From what I've read, and what seems to help, is to say "ouch" and then turn your back and not give them attention so that they don't think that we are playing with them (if that makes sense). Then praise them for not biting afterwards.


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## jzgrlduff (Feb 15, 2008)

> So today I started praising everything she is doing, sitting, staying, peeing...etc...(she is kind of looking at me wierd...like where is all this coming from....but her tail is wagging, so I know she is happy with my response)





> well NORMALLY she just runds ahead a bit...then come back to me...etc...but today she took off into the woods and was gone about 6 minutes....(it might have been 10)....I called her once to come. AND that was it. SHE NEVER came....


OK, this scares the crap out of me. You do not have control of her yet and she definitely doesn't have a firm recall. DO NOT LET HER OFF LEASH TO RUN ON HER OWN!!!!!! Please!!!!!! It's sooooo dangerous, as was proven when she didn't come back. I'm afraid something horrible will happen.:no:

This could be part of the problem, she has too much freedom. She needs to know that YOU are in control. You are the boss. Leash her. PLEASE.


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## bluetou (Oct 13, 2008)

*Firm recall*

Hi Amy...just catching up to some last posts I did not see till now.
YES MOST DEFINITLY I agree with you whole-heartedly, and I have not allowed her off the leash...I have placed her on a longer leash when we are in our (not fenced in but big back yard)....I DO FIND her getting angry and biting the leash, and getting upset with me....AND then when I shorten the leash to walk with her, she insists on BITING MY HAND AND THE LEASH ( I assume this is because I have taken away her long leash)....but I do need to walk her.

I have yet to get the green apple spray...getting this today. Will try this.

SHOULD I imbilical cord train her on a short leash...? is a question I have...

And also wondering about a FIRM RECALL. I have been practicing this with her...and her being a puppy she is off in LA LA LAND.....I tell her to come and give a gentle tug on the LONG leash....it works ....but the times she has her NOSE deep into something I test her...and well it is not such a big success....SO DO I repeat, or just pull in her from the long leash.

Thanks for listening...

Regards,
Blue


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## Scubasteve198 (Jun 9, 2008)

Reading your post reminded me of something a trainer told me once. 
You are to nice to your golden. You are thankful when he does something correctly, and I was. You should expect him to do the right thing. Teenagers need expectation and consistancy. As a teenager your golden sounds normal. EXPECT him to do what you want. He knows you are so nice that you will let him get away with things. I had to realize I needed to expect him to do what I wanted, made me happier and him a better behaved dog.


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