# Winter training 2023



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

This board has been far too quiet! We are in our "GOOD SEASON" for weather down here and hunt tests & trials start back up the end of January. I
We have nine dogs in training right now, all gearing up to run in the spring.
Our guys are:
HRCH Bally MH*** show golden
HR Brix MH (needs one Finished pass) show golden
HR Cuda SH (needs 2 MH passes and 2 Finished passes) lab
HR Jurnie SH** (needs 2 MH passes and 2 Finished passes) field golden
HR Isla SH (needs 3 MH/3 Finished) field golden
Jamie (has two Started legs) show golden
Boyd (will run Junior/Started for the first time) show golden
Wahoo (looking for Senior/Seasoned passes) lab
Togo (puppy in training) show golden

Weather has been amazing. They mowed our big field, then it froze a few nights in a row, so cover is down to nothing and it's absolutely beautiful!!!
Yesterday we did two setups back to back, each had a short mark then three blinds in a row. Here's a picture of the second set.
When I rolled up there was a big piece of styrofoam in the field that had blown in...this field is by a big highway so lots of garbage gets blown on it...this proved to be a very effective distraction for the dogs.

Who else is busy training?


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Looks like a good drill.

Have had some lousy weather and icy snow but things have improved now and our group trained yesterday. 
I had been doing mostly drills and blinds by myself the past couple weeks. 

If I was judging a Q in your field, I would consider a double blind for the 2nd series. One under the left edge of first bush on the right and one centered under the third bush/tree. There would be a guy in white sitting at the second bush.


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

We are still training, but it's been a cold and muddy mess here lately. This week has been great weather but the amount of mud is insane. 

Cruz (conformation bred) needs one senior pass to title. He started giving me a hard time cheating an angled entry for a blind in the last two tests I ran. If someone else thinks it's a really hard water blind he can do it. If it looks easy standing at the line I'm screwed. He won't cheat at home on our pond. I really have to wait for Spring and am going to go to a friends larger training pond and work through it. He will cast off a bank at home like a dream, but he gets in a test and he takes every cast except the one off the bank. (hope you feel the frustration) The last test he got his feet wet, and he took the casts and got the bird, the line wasn't pretty, but I got dinged for saying "good" when he casted into the water. (training during a test) It was my fault I honestly didn't think saying good was considered training and I was happy he just went in the darn water off the bank. His marks are perfect and his land blinds are fine. It's just a when it's 45 degree or less angle entry to my left. He will angle to my right. Anybody have any fixes let me know. He's two sided and I've tried sending off my right. He will step on my toes to cut left down the bank.

Moe (field bred) is retiring. He should be running master but we just found out he has a herniated L7. He's doing epidurals currently and we are hoping to avoid surgery and allow him to be a pet.

Storm (field bred puppy) is ready to run JH. We've made it through force fetch, blind manners, heeling, whistle sits, etc. We are working on our back piles. He's sitting on the whistle and casting right back and left back. He's picking up really nice marks and even picked up his first pheasant the other day without thinking twice. He's a ton of fun. I think we will start overs soon. He still needs a little fine tuning on his recall when he's just out playing lol


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

SRW said:


> If I was judging a Q in your field, I would consider a double blind for the 2nd series. One under the left edge of first bush on the right and one centered under the third bush/tree. There would be a guy in white sitting at the second bush.


Like it!!!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> It's just a when it's 45 degree or less angle entry to my left. He will angle to my right. Anybody have any fixes let me know. He's two sided and I've tried sending off my right. He will step on my toes to cut left down the bank.


I don't know how you train, or what you've been doing, but there are some pretty SOP techniques to handle this sort of thing. Come down and train!


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

I plan to train some field in the spring. People around here train in the middle of the week while I'm at work so I usually do my own thing on weekends when it's warmer. I see that you've been doing some UKC. How do you feel about it? It seems there's some UKC tests much closer to home than AKC.

Oh yeah....
Pilot is conformation bred.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

UKC is fun. I think some of the rules and procedures are silly. Overall they are easier than AKC, but in Seasoned & Finished, a lot more going on at the line than at an AKC hunt test (handler has to shoot the gun). Every UKC hunt test I get admonished by the judges for some handling procedure that I think is dumb, but hey that's me. The dogs enjoy it.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> I really have to wait for Spring and am going to go to a friends larger training pond and work through it. He will cast off a bank at home like a dream, but he gets in a test and he takes every cast except the one off the bank.


Lots of drills that help with this. Until the water warms up again remember to treat cover the same as water. Use it and don't let him cheat it on marks or blinds.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

K9-Design said:


> I think some of the rules and procedures are silly.


So do I and some of the participants come completely unglued if you even hint about it.


K9-Design said:


> Every UKC hunt test I get admonished by the judges for some handling procedure that I think is dumb


Not only dumb but detrimental to proper training and handling.


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

We are at a complete stand still in SD. We got close to 20inches of snow this week and it doesn't seem like it's going anywhere. Luckily I made the smart decision to send my young dog on another winter trip. So he will be in Texas by the end of the week. Rio unfortunately will have to make due up north with me. All we can do at the moment is conditioning (I have a treadmill) and some simple drills that we can do in our kennel club building. 

Hopefully all this snow means our ponds will fill back up and we can hit the ground running this spring! We just got our north ponds dug out last year and due to the drought we haven't been able to use those ponds for two years. So I will be spending the winter thinking about fun setups I can do once its warm enough 😊.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

K9-Design said:


> UKC is fun. I think some of the rules and procedures are silly. Overall they are easier than AKC, but in Seasoned & Finished, a lot more going on at the line than at an AKC hunt test (handler has to shoot the gun). Every UKC hunt test I get admonished by the judges for some handling procedure that I think is dumb, but hey that's me. The dogs enjoy it.


Cool. I'll have to check it out!


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

HRC hunt tests are my favorite dog event hands down. It's a great group of people and they all want you to do well. Gun handling is super important, but at the started level someone else shoots for you. That's where I started and watching AKC videos now I cringe watching handlers because their gun safety is horrible. Doesn't matter that its a fake gun, you get in the habit of treating every one like its real/loaded/safety off and you'll be a much safer handler. I watched a video of someone doing the upland at the grand and was I yelling at my screen because of the way they were holding the gun while taking the bird from the dog. If that handler would have been running our upland, they would have been given a gun violation so fast.


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## Hildae (Aug 15, 2012)

SRW said:


> So do I and some of the participants come completely unglued if you even hint about it.
> 
> Not only dumb but detrimental to proper training and handling.


I'd be interested to hear more about this, as we're consider doing some UKC tests next year.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Hildae said:


> I'd be interested to hear more about this, as we're consider doing some UKC tests next year.


Going by what I am told by people that participate and judge, or did at one time. 
The judges will tell handlers when to handle on a mark, sometimes even when the dog is in the AOF.
I would come unglued, so it's best I don't enter. 
Handling a dog that is hunting the AOF is a good way to ruin a retriever.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

myluckypenny said:


> HRC hunt tests are my favorite dog event hands down. It's a great group of people and they all want you to do well. Gun handling is super important, but at the started level someone else shoots for you. That's where I started and watching AKC videos now I cringe watching handlers because their gun safety is horrible. Doesn't matter that its a fake gun, you get in the habit of treating every one like its real/loaded/safety off and you'll be a much safer handler. I watched a video of someone doing the upland at the grand and was I yelling at my screen because of the way they were holding the gun while taking the bird from the dog. If that handler would have been running our upland, they would have been given a gun violation so fast.


Firearm safety is so important! Every gun needs to be treated as though it's loaded. Since field is supposed to simulate hunting, every handler should know how to handle a gun safely. 

You know what else is important? Work! LOL I better do something!


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

SRW said:


> Going by what I am told by people that participate and judge, or did at one time.
> The judges will tell handlers when to handle on a mark, sometimes even when the dog is in the AOF.
> I would come unglued, so it's best I don't enter.
> Handling a dog that is hunting the AOF is a good way to ruin a retriever.


😳 I do not handle on marks ever in training. I will fire off another bumper, or have someone step out. I did have to handle on a water mark in SH this year. The bird blew up against the shore under a branch. 

I’d get kicked out if they told me to handle and I didn’t think I needed to. I have authority issues anyway lol.


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

SRW said:


> Going by what I am told by people that participate and judge, or did at one time.
> The judges will tell handlers when to handle on a mark, sometimes even when the dog is in the AOF.
> I would come unglued, so it's best I don't enter.
> Handling a dog that is hunting the AOF is a good way to ruin a retriever.


I've never been told to handle my dog by a judge. And I've never seen a judge tell a handler to do that if the dog is in the AOF. The only time I've seen a judge tell them to handle is when the dog is in no man's land and they weren't going to pass that dog regardless, so for the sake of keeping things on schedule they have them handle. 

Not saying it doesn't happen, but I don't think its common (at least in my area).


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> 😳 I do not handle on marks ever in training. I will fire off another bumper, or have someone step out. I did have to handle on a water mark in SH this year. The bird blew up against the shore under a branch.
> 
> I’d get kicked out if they told me to handle and I didn’t think I needed to. I have authority issues anyway lol.


I will handle a dog in route to a mark for fading to a factor or for avoiding cover, very rarely with any pressure. 
I almost never handle a dog that is hunting a mark. With a young dog minimal gunner help is usually what I opt for.
A retriever that really wants the bird will learn to pay closer attention after having to hunt his butt off to find a few birds.



DblTrblGolden2 said:


> The bird blew up against the shore under a branch.


An example of poor bird placement. The bird should have been thrown to the shore if that is where is was going to drift. 
It penalizes a good marking dog if a bird is not where the dog saw it fall.
If I had been judging, and your dog initially went to where the bird fell, I would have scored it as a good mark and disregarded the handle.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

myluckypenny said:


> Not saying it doesn't happen, but I don't think its common (at least in my area).


Just what I have heard, most recently in a discussion about the Grand.


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

SRW said:


> Just what I have heard, most recently in a discussion about the Grand.


Ah yeah the grand is definitely its own set of rules. I can't comment on that. But regular hunt tests is what I was speaking to.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I have had quite the interesting time running Finished this past fall. So what I gather...is if the dog goes to the AOF and hunts, then tries to leave the area, you can handle him in the AOF back to the bird without penalty. It helps if you have telepathy and can ascertain that the dog was planning to leave the AOF before he actually does. If you let him leave the AOF, THEN handle, you are charged with a handle. If he blows through the AOF without hunting, then you handle, you are charged with a handle. If he is hunting in the AOF too long for the judge's liking, and they tell you to handle, then you are charged with a handle. Basically, they started with what was a good idea of a rule, but then realized it made no sense (why would you handle in the AOF if the dog was hunting...in the area...of the fall...that's why you have the dog afterall...to find the bird...), so they made more rules to support the first stupid rule.
I encountered that the JUDGE spoke loudly as my dog entered the water on a memory bird, dog turned around and looked at us...I, the handler, said "back," dog proceeded directly to the bird. Unbeknownst to me, that was a HANDLE. The second series was a triple dead into the wind. Both memory birds were a mom-n-pop. Dead into the wind. Like 20 mph wind as a storm was coming in. I handled the same dog to the last memory bird as he blew by it slightly upwind...one whistle...in the AOF...put him on the bird...DROPPED. I couldn't believe the lack of cognition on the judges' part of what had happened in BOTH series....and blamed the dog...
Last test I ran they had a diversion bird (this is extremely stupid but they do it in EVERY Finished test...it is a required element) this diversion bird was hand-thrown by a judge BEHIND The line. As in, the dog had to run BETWEEN THEIR CHAIRS and under the judge's tent (it was raining) to get the diversion bird. Do the math...that means to fire the gun AT the diversion bird, you are pointing into the judge's tent. Let that sink in. First dog I ran, I didn't realize the angle of all this as it was happening and I stopped myself from SHOOTING THE GUN AT THE JUDGES. So I got the dog in heel position, took the bird, hung it up, looked at the judges like "this is crazy," they told me to "shoot the diversion before sending the dog," so I pointed the gun in the air over my head and fired it. Sent the dog and he got the diversion bird. They scolded ME for taking the first bird from the dog before shooting the diversion bird and by doing so I was AVOIDING THE TEST. (Preventing my dog from running over there and "Switching" birds. Which he clearly was not going to do anyways.) We had a long discussion about this, as I ran three dogs at the end. How do you tell them their test is stupid, and still get three ribbons?????? So I apologized profusely and said "yes sir" fifty times. This stuff happens at every UKC test LOL


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

Okay that sounds painful lol. Not sure I'd have had as much restraint as you


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## Hildae (Aug 15, 2012)

Hmm, maybe I'll just stick with AKC events.


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## green branch (Oct 24, 2020)

K9-Design said:


> Who else is busy training?


Hello Anney, you sure sound busy with the nine dogs. 

We are in New England and this winter the weather has been jumping up and down, from very cold days to quite warm once. Thanks to these nice days, we could spend more time outdoors and do some training. Currently, I am working on casting. You know, I am very inexperienced handler. This year we got a JH, which I am very proud. I made a lot of beginner mistakes teaching my dog to mark. I am sure I am doing the same with casting. We are currently working on the T-drill. 

There is one challenge I have with the dog (independent of marking and casting) and I thought to pose a question here. The dog gets spooked from a distance with strange objects or strange looking people. In the field this can mean odd looking stumps or gunners hiding behind the bushes on a rainy day all bundeled in raincoats and being still when the dog looks at them. He then fixates the object and starts with sporadic deep barks, like he is saying "What is this?" and turning to look at me. Anney, do you have any advice? I am looking for something beyond just expose the dog to the things that frighten him; in everyday life he loves people and has seen a person with a stroller multiple times, but still from a distance he will conclude it is something frightening and take a specific pose and start with this sporadic barking. I would appreciate an advice.

Happy training!


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

K9-Design said:


> I have had quite the interesting time running Finished this past fall. So what I gather...is if the dog goes to the AOF and hunts, then tries to leave the area, you can handle him in the AOF back to the bird without penalty. It helps if you have telepathy and can ascertain that the dog was planning to leave the AOF before he actually does. If you let him leave the AOF, THEN handle, you are charged with a handle. If he blows through the AOF without hunting, then you handle, you are charged with a handle. If he is hunting in the AOF too long for the judge's liking, and they tell you to handle, then you are charged with a handle. Basically, they started with what was a good idea of a rule, but then realized it made no sense (why would you handle in the AOF if the dog was hunting...in the area...of the fall...that's why you have the dog afterall...to find the bird...), so they made more rules to support the first stupid rule.
> I encountered that the JUDGE spoke loudly as my dog entered the water on a memory bird, dog turned around and looked at us...I, the handler, said "back," dog proceeded directly to the bird. Unbeknownst to me, that was a HANDLE. The second series was a triple dead into the wind. Both memory birds were a mom-n-pop. Dead into the wind. Like 20 mph wind as a storm was coming in. I handled the same dog to the last memory bird as he blew by it slightly upwind...one whistle...in the AOF...put him on the bird...DROPPED. I couldn't believe the lack of cognition on the judges' part of what had happened in BOTH series....and blamed the dog...
> Last test I ran they had a diversion bird (this is extremely stupid but they do it in EVERY Finished test...it is a required element) this diversion bird was hand-thrown by a judge BEHIND The line. As in, the dog had to run BETWEEN THEIR CHAIRS and under the judge's tent (it was raining) to get the diversion bird. Do the math...that means to fire the gun AT the diversion bird, you are pointing into the judge's tent. Let that sink in. First dog I ran, I didn't realize the angle of all this as it was happening and I stopped myself from SHOOTING THE GUN AT THE JUDGES. So I got the dog in heel position, took the bird, hung it up, looked at the judges like "this is crazy," they told me to "shoot the diversion before sending the dog," so I pointed the gun in the air over my head and fired it. Sent the dog and he got the diversion bird. They scolded ME for taking the first bird from the dog before shooting the diversion bird and by doing so I was AVOIDING THE TEST. (Preventing my dog from running over there and "Switching" birds. Which he clearly was not going to do anyways.) We had a long discussion about this, as I ran three dogs at the end. How do you tell them their test is stupid, and still get three ribbons?????? So I apologized profusely and said "yes sir" fifty times. This stuff happens at every UKC test LOL


Sound like it is far worse that I heard. I helped at a started test a couple years ago. It was painful, partly because there was nothing to do. Also because some apparently knew I was one of those field trial guys and seemed offended if I so much as said hello. Most had a great time though and were there to have fun. 
I had decided to request helping at the finished level next time I am able but in light of new testimony that's probably not a good idea. 


green branch said:


> I am looking for something beyond just expose the dog to the things that frighten him;


Well that and building his desire to retrieve are what he needs.


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## Golden Gibby (Jan 8, 2011)

We got out of the below 0 weather up north to spend a month in Florida. Getting out in mornings doing marks and some lining & casting drills before it gets too hot.
I didn’t get signed up for your clubs Spring Fun Trial but hope to make it there since the premium says late entries are allowed. I have a young dog I’d like to run in the derby setup. Working with her daily and enjoying the weather.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Golden Gibby said:


> We got out of the below 0 weather up north to spend a month in Florida. Getting out in mornings doing marks and some lining & casting drills before it gets too hot.
> I didn’t get signed up for your clubs Spring Fun Trial but hope to make it there since the premium says late entries are allowed. I have a young dog I’d like to run in the derby setup. Working with her daily and enjoying the weather.


Trust me, I couldn't sign up one of my own dogs because EE wouldn't let me add the owner. It's completely asinine that the club decided to use EE for our FUN TRIAL. Now we all have to pay EE $5 per entry to do absolutely nothing. Yes, we're taking day of entries.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

green branch said:


> There is one challenge I have with the dog (independent of marking and casting) and I thought to pose a question here. The dog gets spooked from a distance with strange objects or strange looking people. In the field this can mean odd looking stumps or gunners hiding behind the bushes on a rainy day all bundeled in raincoats and being still when the dog looks at them. He then fixates the object and starts with sporadic deep barks, like he is saying "What is this?" and turning to look at me. Anney, do you have any advice? I am looking for something beyond just expose the dog to the things that frighten him; in everyday life he loves people and has seen a person with a stroller multiple times, but still from a distance he will conclude it is something frightening and take a specific pose and start with this sporadic barking. I would appreciate an advice.


Hey! So my inclination would be to....
1 - if dog does know a whistle sit, sit him when he starts getting spooky out in the field. I would walk up to him, if you are very close to the bird, point and tell him fetch. If you're some distance away, meet him out in the field, turn him toward the gunner and ask them to shoot & throw a new mark. 
2 - If the dog does not know a sit whistle, do basically the same thing but you'll have to walk out and sorta round him up as he's running around. Again, walk with him to get the bird if it's close, if it's a reasonable distance just have the gunner throw another one

Either way, keep things very low key, do NOT have the gunner try to help or distract the dog or even worse, run out and try to pinch his ear (dumbest advice ever). Do not use collar pressure. Corrections, more commotion and stress, etc, will not help the situation short term and long term. 

If it turns into popping in the area of the fall on a regular basis, you will need gunner help, then the gunner needs to just stand up, call the dog, offer treats, show them the bird, throw a new one, all in an upbeat attitude. The gunner needs to be their friend, always. Neutral at worst.

I can tell you, many years ago I went to a Carol Cassidy training group (ladies group), Carol was out in the field throwing a bird, I sent Fisher who was completely bombproof, not afraid of anything, happy go lucky dog. Fisher picked up the bird, Carol raised her hand to signal that he had it, and FISHER FREAKED. He dropped the bird, ran away barking at her. I was astounded. I have no idea why he flipped like that. Never happened again, never happened later. My little bitch I'm training now, did basically the same thing earlier this year right before she came in season. Twice, ran to a mark, saw the gunner and ran away barking. I was about to sell her down the river. She promptly came in season and it's not happened since. Best of luck.


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## green branch (Oct 24, 2020)

K9-Design said:


> Hey! So my inclination would be to....
> 1 - if dog does know a whistle sit, sit him when he starts getting spooky out in the field. I would walk up to him, if you are very close to the bird, point and tell him fetch. If you're some distance away, meet him out in the field, turn him toward the gunner and ask them to shoot & throw a new mark.
> 2 - If the dog does not know a sit whistle, do basically the same thing but you'll have to walk out and sorta round him up as he's running around. Again, walk with him to get the bird if it's close, if it's a reasonable distance just have the gunner throw another one
> 
> ...


Thank you for the training advice. This is very helpful. 

It is interesting to me what you said about the bitch. For her, it seems a heat had an impact on the behavior. I have a dog, so I am not sure what to attribute the change in his behavior. He seems to have spooky phases that come and go. He is young, but not that young. Turned two. When he was a year old, there were things that would spook him. This summer he got pretty confident, but then in the fall he started getting spooky again. It really seems to come and go. I hope he gets over it. If not, I will blame the moon for his emotions.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

She can be spooky about silly things at time too. On one hand she is super talented, on the other, way more unpredictable than my boys. They're all different!!!


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## xRoan (Jul 7, 2021)

Following! We've got a ton of snow on the ground but I've been doing some distance work on the sidewalks; they're a little slick but mostly packed snow so I figure it's ok to do a little work... otherwise we wouldn't get ANY training done until at least May. I hope to get at least one SH pass on my younger dog by the end of the summer but we'll see. I'll be ecastic if Colt manages to get one, although he's been hitting blinds harder than previously.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Ran some blinds today. This is a nice field for it, great terrain and it is close to my house.
I put 4 blinds out, used ducks for three of them. Good to use birds sometimes on blinds for a bigger reward. 
This is Lily on her way to the longest one, just under 500 yards,. It is just to the left of trees on the horizon.
Both dogs did well. I stopped and handled at least two or three times on each blind. It's good training to handle even if the dog is on line.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

A marking drill today. Throwers at 75, 125 and 200 yards.
All singles, order of throw;
Middle right
long left
short right
middle left
long right
short left








It is a common drill and great for any retriever once a week or so. 
It looks very simple but helps teach and maintain a lot of basic concepts, running close to guns, through old falls, under arcs, checking down after running long, focusing on a single mark with multiple guns in the field.......
Field trial retrievers need to be comfortable doing all of those things.


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## Edward Lee Nelson (Jan 2, 2017)

Typical winter here in MD. very cold one day then somewhat nice the next. Don't mind that as much as the short days. I work full time and my wife gets up at 3am to go to work, but we are training roughly 4 days a week getting in a set of marks and 2 blinds per outing, do drills every day though in the yard. Looking forward to the spring as we have our totally psycho 3 yr old pocket rocket (43 lbs) starting the Q and a pup starting the Derby in June, need a month or so in the water with her. Very excited about both of them.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Beautiful day today, high of 66 sunny with 10-15 mph wind clear blue sky
Every master dog handle on one mark so...ha! fooled em all
Ran as triple left - right - middle then two blinds & honor


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