# Should we feed more with intense exercise?



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I wouldn't be running a pup that young....


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## kelseypr95 (Jul 5, 2016)

Megora said:


> I wouldn't be running a pup that young....


Vet said we are ok to run him at this age..... what age do you recommend?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

kelseypr95 said:


> Vet said we are ok to run him at this age..... what age do you recommend?


Not until after the growth plates close. 

You can google that info here on GRF, or go on the GRCA.ORG page. 

Golden retrievers are a large breed and as of such, it takes a while for them to physically "come together". I don't have access to FB at the moment, but somebody posted a xray image of what the bones for an immature pup look like and you can see why they might be prone to injuries if there's just too much too quickly.

Safest (to avoid injuries) would be holding off another year before increasing forced exercise to include running, etc.

@9 months, your dog is right at that nervous-for-owners stage where problems show up, particularly shoulders, elbows, and hips.


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## smp (Apr 27, 2016)

What's the calorie content (kcal/cup)? Here is a great answer to this question from SIANDVM that I use to monitor the amount for Sadie:

"""""""
Every food has a different caloric content, so the amount you feed depends on that, in addition to her metabolic requirements. Growing puppies have a higher metabolic rate than adults. Puppies who run all day have a higher metabolic rate than puppies who don't. 

I never use the amounts on the bag and I agree with the others that the amount you are feeding does sound low (but if the food is super high calorie, it may be close). If you are concerned, though, You can calculate a good starting point for caloric requirements. Take her weight in kg (which is the weight in pounds divided by 2.2) to the 3/4 power (you need a calculator which can do x to the y power and use the weight as x and .75 as y) times 70. That gives you the RER (resting energy requirement). Then, for a puppy 0-4 months, multiply that by 3 for your daily caloric requirement. For a puppy 4 months to a year, multiply by 2. The bag of food should say how many calories per cup (make sure it is the per cup, not per kg of food, that would be a big, important difference). If it doesn't say on the bag, you can find it online. Then, most importantly, see how your puppy looks when feeding that amount. If your puppy is getting a 5/9 body condition score, she is probably fine, although it does look as if her growth has slowed earlier than I would have liked. Her ribs should be easy to feel without going digging, and you should not see them. When viewed from above, she should have a waist. Remember to adjust as she grows. 

For example, she is about 7kg now (you said both 15 and 16 pounds, and 7kg splits the difference). Multiplying 7 to the 3/4 power gives you 4.3. Multiply that by 70 for a RER of 301. Multiply that by 3 for a pup 0-4 months and you get a daily caloric requirement of 903 calories. Purina Pro Plan Focus chicken and rice (I think that's what you are feeding) has 417kcal (which is what we all consider calories) per cup. So she would need 903/417=2.2 cups a day, which is right around what everyone was saying. 

Here is a link to The Ohio State University's veterinary nutrition area of their website. It has some great info, including the calculations I just gave you, as well as the factor by which to multiply for various situations (neutered adult, intact adult, etc). 

https://vet.osu.edu/vmc/companion/our-services/nutrition-support-service/basic-calorie-calculator

I hope I haven't just confused you. Please feel free to ask for clarification (or to ignore in favor of the general advice to feed 2-2.5 cups per day)
""""""""""""""""


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## LynnC (Nov 14, 2015)

My son runs with the dogs and my vet also said no running until her growth plates close (about 18 months) & for her first year we followed the 5 min per month rule for walks (6 months/30 min - 8 months/40 min, etc.).


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

60 lbs. at 9 months of age isn't small. He may not grow much taller, but he's going to fill out quite a bit for the next year or so. 

For comparison, my male golden is 17 months old and tips the scales at 50 lbs. He's quite tall (23"), but is lean and athletic. His parents are also small.


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## kelseypr95 (Jul 5, 2016)

smp said:


> What's the calorie content (kcal/cup)? Here is a great answer to this question from SIANDVM that I use to monitor the amount for Sadie:
> 
> """""""
> Every food has a different caloric content, so the amount you feed depends on that, in addition to her metabolic requirements. Growing puppies have a higher metabolic rate than adults. Puppies who run all day have a higher metabolic rate than puppies who don't.
> ...


It is 313 calories per cup. Can you please help me with these calculations?? That is waaaaay over my head lol!! Thank you! 

And thank you everyone. I have no idea why my vet would say this is ok since it is clearly not. Truman had sholder and has a small amount of arthritis in his shoulder and she is the one who gave us the idea to run him on our bikes to keep him active. Maybe I misunderstood her. I am going to give her a call!!


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## kelseypr95 (Jul 5, 2016)

ceegee said:


> 60 lbs. at 9 months of age isn't small. He may not grow much taller, but he's going to fill out quite a bit for the next year or so.
> 
> For comparison, my male golden is 17 months old and tips the scales at 50 lbs. He's quite tall (23"), but is lean and athletic. His parents are also small.


I guess I just felt like he was small with his male siblings being 60+ pounds. I do not know if they get the same exercise he does. He is very lean and we are trying to keep him that way! I am a groomer and used to seeing all these amish puppy mill 100+lb goldens so Truman definitely seems small in comparison with them but I know he is obviously much healthier than them lol!


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

So I think based on the calculations proposed he needs 1,670 calories per day. I looked up the food you said and it has a kcal/cup of 352. So if you divide 1670 by 352 you should be feeding 4 3/4 cups a day. That seems pretty high to me, but I do think you could increase from 2 cups a day to 2.5 - 3 cups. As always though, make sure to pay attention to his body. Slow growth is much easier on them in the long term and its better to have a lean puppy


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## Lambeau0609 (Aug 3, 2015)

60 pounds at 9 months is not a small puppy. I would be careful increasing his food to much. Especially if he already has arthritis. And I was told definately no running until at least 18 months. My puppy will be 2 yrs in June and weighs 64 pounds. Lambeau is a very athletic, fit puppy. I am not a runner with Lambeau but we have been doing 2 walks aday for a long time. I had a dog before Lambeau that had arthritis at a very young age and was always told the best exercise was swimming or walking and not running with arthritis.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Sorry - I'm not answering your question about food, but weighing in on the running. It also made me cringe to read that you are running him that young, especially post surgery. I'd look into vet rehab - see if you can find a place with a water treadmill and a rehab specialist. Seems like that and straight up swimming would be far better for him right now than pounding on the joint. 

Actually, I will weigh in food-wise, too. I never go by the bag or anything. I go by my dog's body. If she is getting too thin, I up her food a touch (like, maybe by 1/4 cup a day) and I'd reduce a bit if I felt she were getting too thick.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Puppies grow in spurts. At times you will have to feed more than at other times. You may have to bump him up to 4 cups once in a while. I would not use him as a running partner for at last another 3 or 4 months. 

(He is not small either.)


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## Mayabear (Aug 26, 2015)

Maybe I am in the minority here, but to me, regardless of age, repetitive exercise where the dog doesn't choose the pace of exercise isn't ideal. 

Take an hour of running with the owner vs. an hour of off leash play at the dog park. In the first instance, the dog is at the owner's pace. In the second instance, the dog can have a high intensity romp, then rest, then resume, then rest. The latter gets the dog its requisite exercise, but at the dog's pace.

Also, as a city dweller, a lot of folks who run with their dogs tend to do so on the pavement, or on hard surfaces. I always worry about high impact exercise for sustained periods of time where the dog doesn't get to choose its pace.

Sorry - off topic I know!


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## kelseypr95 (Jul 5, 2016)

Don't worry everyone, we will not be running him anymore. Left a message with my vet to see if maybe I misunderstood her. I am really hoping that is the case. 

So to clarify, it is ok for him to run in the yard as long as it is on his own terms? As in when playing fetch or when he gets the zoomies which is pretty often. 

My in laws have a pool he can swim in but it has only been warm enough a couple of days so far for him to go. When it is, we will probably make that our main source of exercise. We used to go to the dog park and he got tons of energy out there but we had a bad experience so will not be returning. He is OFF THE WALL if he is not worked every day. 

He didn't use to eat all his food but lately he is gobbling it up quick so I'm wondering if he is going through a growth spurt now. I will up it a little bit. He is nice and lean now and we are trying to keep it that way. 

Thanks everyone for the advice!


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

I don't know where you live, but if you have access to a pool, lake, pond or ocean, swimming is a fantastic form of exercise, it's easy on his joints and bones, and will help his arthritis.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

If he's a normal healthy golden retriever - he needs regular outlet for all that energy. He DOES need to run. No doubt about it. He is a sporting breed. He's going to have a good deal of normal energy that needs burning off through the day. Just as it is a breed that needs engagement and companionship a good portion of their day. 

He needs regular walks... 

He needs regular free exercise through the day if you can do that. 

As he gets older and you are well past the "danger zone" (15+ months, for example), you can start light jogging sprints. 

A lot of people freak out when you have somebody mention running with their dogs, because we all know people who plug in their headphones and get into a zone as they jog continuously for a couple miles or more. 

Particularly in the case of people who are just used to running and don't take the care to condition their dogs up to the level they are at.... They do risk exasperating damage if the young dogs have loose joints, bone injuries in the case of immature growing bones, and muscle tears. All the more so since goldens aren't technically a breed made for long distance running. 

My guys do start hiking with me fairly early... these are hikes on soft ground (like we normally are in woods and going across fields or on sand). I keep hikes short and the dogs usually are off leash. They are allowed to stop and eat grass and rest when they want. We usually go around lakes or ponds so they can go jump into the water to cool off a few times while walking. 

There's a lot of stuff you can do....

If you are in an urban area... it will be tricky accomplishing the same stuff without resorting to going to dog parks at odd hours of the day? But there's other ways to let the dogs just be dogs without heavy duty forced exercise (usually running certain distances on pavement with their owners). 

@weight and food... I believe in keeping weights down on growing pups. If they get too thin, increase food, but otherwise I would not overfeed. I've said before and again, but pups get 1/2 to 3/4 cup of food per meal and 3 meals a day early on when they come home. As they get switched to 2 meals a day around 4-5 months, they are switched to 1 cup 2x a day. That is the standard measurement, regardless of age. 

And if the dog gets thin - a 1/2 cup is added to one of the meals or possibly both. Sometimes when they are growing rapidly, I do think sometimes you end up adding a 1/2 cup now and then. This is especially true between 12 weeks and 7 months.

At 9 months though - you should see the growth patterns slowing way down. I don't see any reason to add excess food in that case. Unless your dog is getting a ton of exercise, or being worked in field (for example).

A lot of people I know who do fieldwork with their dogs feed a TON of food to keep the weight on their dogs.  One person had to feed 9 cups of food per day to their flat coated retriever while doing summer training.... just to give you an idea.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I was told to run my show dog who is under two, but to do it on soft ground until he is two, and of course within reason. Different breeds grow at different rates, so a toy dog will be full grown before a year old, while a giant breed can take up to five years to grow. Vets do not know the particulars of every breed and that is when it is important to listen to breeders,too, who have been studying the breed for sometimes generations.

Also, one of the good things about the golden retriever breed, is that there is much research out there for our breed alone, that other breeds do not have.


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## Artbuc1 (Sep 4, 2016)

kelseypr95 said:


> Vet said we are ok to run him at this age..... what age do you recommend?


Get a new vet.


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## smp (Apr 27, 2016)

kelseypr95 said:


> It is 313 calories per cup. Can you please help me with these calculations?? That is waaaaay over my head lol!! Thank you!
> 
> And thank you everyone. I have no idea why my vet would say this is ok since it is clearly not. Truman had sholder and has a small amount of arthritis in his shoulder and she is the one who gave us the idea to run him on our bikes to keep him active. Maybe I misunderstood her. I am going to give her a call!!


OK, for 60# at 9 months, I get 1670cal/day as the requirement using that calculation. If you're feeding twice a day, that would work out to about 2.5 cups each time. Again, that's just a starting point. You have to monitor your dog's growth closely, and may want to check that calculation with your vet if it seems way off what you're currently doing.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Mayabear said:


> Maybe I am in the minority here, but to me, regardless of age, repetitive exercise where the dog doesn't choose the pace of exercise isn't ideal.
> 
> Take an hour of running with the owner vs. an hour of off leash play at the dog park. In the first instance, the dog is at the owner's pace. In the second instance, the dog can have a high intensity romp, then rest, then resume, then rest. The latter gets the dog its requisite exercise, but at the dog's pace.
> 
> ...


Totally agree with your post - especially the bold. I feel the same way when I see people here running with their dogs - especially when it's warm, and the dog is clearly struggling, and panting too hard. People are so clueless. I think because I run myself, I know there are days you feel great and days you don't. I have the choice to modify my pace or whatever. A dog being forced to run along with me would not. 

On the other hand, I am all in favour of free exercise and letting a pup or dog run and play to his or her heart's content on grass or other soft surface.


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## kelseypr95 (Jul 5, 2016)

Ok everyone I spoke with my vet. I don't know what the miscommunication was but she said absolutely do not be running him yet.......... I know she said in our appt that we could try running him on our bikes but on the phone she said she wouldn't suggest us even trying that until after he's 2. My guess is the she said "try this after he's 2" and i somehow missed the part where she said "after he's 2"! 

Luckily we only ran him a handful of times so hopefully there is no lasting damage! It has only been a week and a half since we stopped going to the dog park. 

Our vet is very knowledgeable in golden retrievers and is involved in the life study. So i don't really think she would give me bad information. She did tell me swimming is the best exercise and to try to go twice a week which we will be doing more than that once its nice enough!


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## LynnC (Nov 14, 2015)

I'm glad you checked. Sometimes at these appointments (human and non human) its hard to remember everything and easy to miss something. You were only doing what you thought was best for Truman. Like the saying "when you know better you do better".


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