# Neutered my puppy



## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Those are great photos; especially the one with the shredded paper! There are a lot of advocates that say there are health benefits for waiting to neuter until they are older. That being said, I had to neuter my 3 year old, Duke, when he was 8 months old. He was having some health issues and after consulting with my vet we moved forward with neutering him. You will also find that many doggy daycares and boarding facilities will not accept dogs that are not neutered after they are over six months old. I have another male golden (approximately same age who was neutered when he was about 1.5 years old). The main difference that I notice now is that Charlie (the one who was neutered at an older age) has a much softer coat. They are approximately the same size. Time will tell if neutering Duke at an earlier age has any lasting effects.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

What is done is done. I would not worry. From what I have read, the most important factor is whether a male pup has matured prior to being neutered. That is, has he begun puberty. Many have their dogs neutered around 6 months, and those dogs turn out fine. 

Max was 8 months when he was neutered. He is a big boy, and very masculine. He is nearly 5 years old now and doing great. He exhibits all the behaviors of a typical male dog. He marks and lifts his leg.


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## lloyddobler (Nov 30, 2014)

Oh my goodness! He is adorable! You'll likely get a millions different perspectives, but many on here will likely comment on how it is best to wait to neuter. However, I've read many posts by those who neutered early and don't feel their pups look any different and feel it was the right decision for them. My previous two goldens were females and were both spayed at 6 months and lived to the ages of 12 and 13 respectively with no health issues throughout their lives. 

I guess my advice would be to not worry about it... you already had the procedure done and there are pros and cons to waiting or having it done early. Enjoy your beautiful boy!! He looks a bit like a lion with all that fluff around his head! What a doll!

I have a 9 month old male that I haven't had neutered yet. My vet actually recommended to wait until a year, but given his recent obsession with humping and some other behavioral issues she suggested moving forward with the procedure now. 

Just like everything in life, there are a millions different pros and cons and opinions. Try to not worry and just enjoy your boy!


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## Boaz (Mar 28, 2015)

I would always encourage you to take your vets recommendation. I neutered my last golden at 4 month old and he was fine. Lived to be 15 years old, did not change his looks and was a very healthy dog.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Jake was neutered at six months and his looks were fine. He had no joint or arthritis issues.


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## Fattner (Apr 1, 2015)

Beautiful boy ,now go enjoy him and don't worry my friend


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## Tmeekss (Feb 28, 2015)

Thank you everyone for the replies ! I try not to worry but sometimes I just can't help it lol but you all have made me feel a lot better !


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## Goldylover2 (May 1, 2014)

My pup was neutered at 7 months old. I'm not worried about it. I'm sure your pup will be fine.


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## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

Buddy was neutered at 6 months on the vet's advice too. He has always looked quite feminine (Buddy not the vet!) so no change there! He is 9 months now and still squats to pee, always on one place so he is not marking, but that is fine with me..


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## Katduf (Mar 10, 2013)

Bear was neutered at 6 months. He looks like a boy, a very handsome one at that (not biased or anything!). He lifts his leg, marks repeatedly on walks and has a coat that makes you unable to stop cuddling him. It's a personal decision when to neuter, and it's nobody's business but yours. Enjoy your baby!


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## Marcus (Aug 24, 2014)

Ben was done early. As soon as I possibly could. So don't stress. It's done. Ben is fine, same size as most other Goldens. He doesn't lift a leg but squats. Which I'm fine with, hope he never lifts a leg. 

As for cancer? Will unless they turn back the clock and un-neauter them. They'll never know for sure. Although I'm sure someone can post many reports etc saying the opposite. Don't let it scare you. Nothing you can do about it. Just enjoy your dog and keep posting photos.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Statistically, he will now have a greater risk for cancer. That doesn't mean he'll get it, just that he's at a statistically higher risk. It increases the odds a bit, but probably not dramatically. 60% of Goldens get cancer anyway. It's a fact of life with our breed. It's not as if intact dogs don't get cancer. More than half of all Goldens get it.

Yes, he will look different now, but how will you know? I think it's odd people saying their dogs don't look different after early neutering, because most folks have no way of knowing what they would have looked like had they not been early neutered. But you can tell the difference if you have an eye for it. I see it in dogs all the time, including dogs here that I've met, like Max. When you develop an eye for it, you can tell 100% of the time which dogs were neutered early. You can look at a dog and ask the owner if he was neutered at 6 months old, and the owner will look at you funny and say, "Yes, how did you know?" But as far as looks go, so what? What difference does it make? He's your dog and he'll look how he looks. And he'll look like most other Goldens, since most Goldens are neutered early.

But it's a fact that your dog will develop longer legs, now, for one thing. And his bones won't be as thick as they would have, otherwise. And as he grows he will have a longer window for developing hip and elbow dysplasia. So you might just want to avoid forced exercise (repeated retrieves, jumping and leaping, or running/jogging) until he's about two years old.

Don't worry about him looking "feminine." He won't. And most likely he'll mark and lift his leg. And unfortunately it won't fix any behavioral problems (if he has any). Indeed, at dog parks he'll look more like the other Goldens there, as the vast majority of Goldens are neutered early. My intact dogs look like the odd men out when a bunch of Goldens get together. I often get comments from other Golden owners that my (show) dogs don't look like Goldens. I'm told they look short. One Golden owner asked if they were part Korgi!

All this is to say that yes, early neutering has effects, but so what? Most Goldens are neutered early, so you're in vast company. And as people say even in this very thread, they don't notice anything, their dogs do well, and sometimes they live to a ripe old age. Just love your boy and enjoy him!


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## 4goldengirls (Jun 10, 2014)

There is so much debate and articles written but I believe there are pros and cons to both debates regarding early spay/neuter. It comes down to being a personal decision.


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## thorbreafortuna (Jun 9, 2013)

First of all, he is absolutely adorable. I don't think you'll find him any less handsome because of the fact that he was neutered early. 
Also, don't forget that all of the studies concerning health are dealing with probability; he's not necessarily going to be part of those statistics. It may turn out like it has for a great many others that he will live long and healthy anyway.
There are things you can do to improve his odds. Avoid exposure to chemical pesticides, feed the best quality diet you can afford, work with your vet to choose a vaccination protocol that is as minimal as it can be while still keeping him protected from high incidence preventable deseases. I'm not an expert but some people on this forum have a wealth of knowledge about these matters and I bet if you do a search you can find a lot of information. 

Good luck! When all is said and done, they all have a shorter life than we'd like. Enjoy every day with him.


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## Goldylover2 (May 1, 2014)

DanaRuns said:


> Statistically, he will now have a greater risk for cancer. That doesn't mean he'll get it, just that he's at a statistically higher risk. It increases the odds a bit, but probably not dramatically. 60% of Goldens get cancer anyway. It's a fact of life with our breed. It's not as if intact dogs don't get cancer. More than half of all Goldens get it.
> 
> Yes, he will look different now, but how will you know? I think it's odd people saying their dogs don't look different after early neutering, because most folks have no way of knowing what they would have looked like had they not been early neutered. But you can tell the difference if you have an eye for it. I see it in dogs all the time, including dogs here that I've met, like Max. When you develop an eye for it, you can tell 100% of the time which dogs were neutered early. You can look at a dog and ask the owner if he was neutered at 6 months old, and the owner will look at you funny and say, "Yes, how did you know?" But as far as looks go, so what? What difference does it make? He's your dog and he'll look how he looks. And he'll look like most other Goldens, since most Goldens are neutered early.
> 
> ...


That's a bunch of hogwash. Don't let your dog jump, leap run or jog until he's two years old. Where do you come up with this crap? You can tell which dog has been neutered early. Who are you, the dog whisperer? My dog already had long legs before he got neutered. And he got neutered at seven months old. Explain that. Statistics are a dime a dozen and are usually on small sample sizes and can be swayed either way depending on the one doing the study. His pup will be fine like thousands of other goldens. So quit preaching your scare tactics to pet owners who get their dogs fixed before one year old. It's getting old.


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## lloyddobler (Nov 30, 2014)

There are always going to be varying opinions on these topics and that is why people come here.... read up on what other people think and have experienced and form their own opinion. Please let's not attack other folks and/or their opinions on here. I'd like to come here and not worry about being attacked or belittled for sharing my experiences and thoughts. It's fine to disagree, but please share your varying opinion in a respectful way so that people don't feel this is not a safe place to seek and share advice.

As far as not allowing the dog to run until they are closer to 2, my vet recommended the same thing to me whether he is neutered or not. My understanding is it is best to avoid running them on hard surfaces such as concrete until they are done growing no matter if they are in tact or not to avoid the various damage that can do to their joints.


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

lloyddobler said:


> There are always going to be varying opinions on these topics and that is why people come here.... read up on what other people think and have experienced and form their own opinion. Please let's not attack other folks and/or their opinions on here. I'd like to come here and not worry about being attacked or belittled for sharing my experiences and thoughts. It's fine to disagree, but please share your varying opinion in a respectful way so that people don't feel this is not a safe place to seek and share advice.
> 
> As far as not allowing the dog to run until they are closer to 2, my vet recommended the same thing to me whether he is neutered or not. My understanding is it is best to avoid running them on hard surfaces such as concrete until they are done growing no matter if they are in tact or not to avoid the various damage that can do to their joints.


Well said! I also have been cautioned by MY vet not to allow Noah to do much/any jumping or be allowed to run on concrete until AFTER his growth plates had closed at 18-24 months, and you see the same caution about jumps in agility when you visit the agility portion of this forum.


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## Pdljmpr (Apr 4, 2015)

Our non-golden Cody (1year 4 months) was neutered when we got him at 13.5 weeks. We got him from a shelter. He is part collie, german shepherd, american eskimo dog and a mix of a bunch of other things. (had his dna run) He doesn't "lift his leg", more like takes a stance and pees. He looks like a misfit but he is a great dog.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

Tmeekss said:


> Alright so I didn't know that I wasnt supposed to neuter my puppy so early I was going by what the vet said and I trusted them. He just turned 6 months and he got fixed 2 weeks ago. After reading all the post about neutering puppy's to early I'm kind of worried now. Should I be worried ? Is it true that's it's going to change his looks and he will look more feminine and he's more likely to get cancer ? I get paranoid and all this is worrying me. I attached a photos just because also lol.



Your puppy is adorable. He's got a great face and I love the fact that he's a redhead. My Max is a redhead. My Emma is blonde. 

Your pup is neutered and that can't be undone. So so the best you can for him as far as food and health. 

You will find many opinions. I kept my first golden intact based on two thing: my breeder's contract and studies of the effects of early neutering on long bones. Also the higher incidence of soft tissue problems in sports dogs. Lastly, research on the health benefits of keeping dogs intact until maturity. 

Yes, I have noticed that when I see very tall goldens they have been neutered early. I have seen dogs from the same litter and some were intact and the pets were neutered early and those were taller and lankier. It's not hogwash, it's what I've noticed in a handful of large breed dogs - GSD, goldens, labs, and Rottweilers. 

I'm always asked what Max is. And when I say golden I get the "my golden is SO MUCH TALLER, is yours a mini golden?" Nope. Max is 24 inches. Solid bone. Broad head. Square muzzle. Emma is a puppy but she will be fixed no earlier than 12 months and after her first season. If I can wait longer I will. 

Is it simply the parents' build that was passed down? Possibly. But I have seen litter mates who look different depending on age of neutering. 

Enjoy your puppy. You'll adore him. Next time, do a bit of research and do what is best for the puppy and most suitable for your family.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Your boy is absolutely adorable!

My bridge boy lived to be 15.5, I lost him 4.5 years ago. He was neutered at 6 months per my Vets recommendation. He was healthy all his life and looked like a normal golden boy, he was not tall and lanky. He was diagnosed with cancer when he was 14-14.5. 

My current boy I adopted when he was 2, he was not altered at the time I adopted him but was a few months later. So far I am not seeing any difference in his looks, structure or size. 

Try not to worry about your boy, enjoy him and have fun with him.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

Here is one article of many. 
http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=10498


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Goldylover2 said:


> That's a bunch of hogwash.


Opinions vary. 



> Don't let your dog jump, leap run or jog until he's two years old. Where do you come up with this crap?


Wow, all over the place. You can do your own googling, if you're interested. Admittedly, I got that specific information from a friend of mine, named Chris Zink, who knows a bit about this. But I'll let you look online yourself, if you're actually interested, as there are probably a hundred identical opinions from knowledgeable authorities and studies. I'm just too lazy to do it for you, since I imagine you wouldn't pay attention anyway.



> You can tell which dog has been neutered early. Who are you, the dog whisperer? My dog already had long legs before he got neutered. And he got neutered at seven months old. Explain that.


Condescending much? But I do happen to have a little bit of this handy, so I'll copy it below. Still, google is your friend.

In a study of 1444 Golden Retrievers, bitches and dogs spayed or neutered at less than a year of age were significantly taller than those spayed or neutered after a year of age. Glickman L, Glickman N, Thorpe R. The Golden Retriever Club of America National Health Survey 1998-1999. http://www.grca.org/healthsurvey.pdf

One study found that bitches spayed at 7 weeks had significantly delayed closure of growth plates as compared to those spayed at 7 months, and those spayed at 7 months had significantly delayed closure of growth plates as compared to those left intact. Salmeri KR, Bloomberg MS, Scruggs SL, Shille V. Gonadectomy in immature dogs: effects on skeletal, physical, and behavioral development. JAVMA 1991;198:1193-1203

In a Dr. Chris Zink study of 203 agility dogs, the author demonstrated that the tibia and radius and ulna were significantly longer than the femur and humerus, respectively, in dogs that were spayed or neutered at or prior to 8 months of age as compared to intact dogs. (M.C. Zink, unpublished data)

"The sex hormones, by communicating with a number of other growth-related hormones, promote the closure of the growth plates at puberty (Grumbach MM. Estrogen, bone, growth and sex: a sea change ), so the bones of dogs or bitches neutered or spayed before puberty continue to grow. Dogs that have been spayed or neutered before completing puberty can frequently be identified by their longer limbs, lighter bone structure, narrow chests and narrow skulls. This abnormal growth frequently results in significant alterations in body proportions and particularly the lengths (and therefore weights) of certain bones relative to others. For example, if the femur has achieved its genetically determined normal length at 8 months when a dog gets spayed or neutered, but the tibia, which normally stops growing at 12 to 14 months of age continues to grow, then an abnormal angle may develop at the stifle. In addition, with the extra growth, the lower leg below the stifle likely becomes heavier (because it is longer), and may cause increased stresses on the cranial cruciate ligament. In addition, sex hormones are critical for achieving peak bone density. (Gilsanz V, Roe TF, Gibbens DT, Schulz EE, Carlson ME, Gonzalez O, Boechat MI. Effect of sex steroids on peak bone density of growing rabbits. Am J Physiol. 1988 Oct;255(4 Pt 1):E416-21). These structural and physiological alterations may be the reason why at least one recent study showed that spayed and neutered dogs had a higher incidence of CCL rupture. (Slauterbeck JR, Pankratz K, Xu KT, Bozeman SC, Hardy DM. Canine ovariohysterectomy and orchiectomy increases the prevalence of ACL injury. Clin Orthop Relat Res. 2004 Dec;(429):301-5.) Another recent study showed that dogs spayed or neutered before 5 1/2 months had a significantly higher incidence of hip dysplasia than those spayed or neutered after 5 1/2 months of age, although it should be noted that in this study there were no standard criteria for the diagnosis of hip dysplasia.(Spain CV, Scarlett JM, Houpt KA. Long-term risks and benefits of early-age gonadectomy in dogs. JAVMA 2004;224:380-387.)"

Besides all that, your puppy had long legs before being neutered because puppies' bodies grow at varying rates, and one of the first things to grow is legs, because that enables the puppy to run with the pack and hunt while it is still developing. So of course your puppy had long legs. All puppies that age have long legs. But that doesn't correlate with adult height, which is what all those articles and I were referring to.



> Statistics are a dime a dozen and are usually on small sample sizes and can be swayed either way depending on the one doing the study. His pup will be fine like thousands of other goldens. So quit preaching your scare tactics to pet owners who get their dogs fixed before one year old. It's getting old.


I think my opinions are based on sound, solid science. You can call it "preaching" and "scare tactics," but I have no interest in doing either of those things. And as long as you're going to dismiss the science with a waive of your hand and the declaration that "statistics are a dime a dozen," we don't have a common frame of reference for discussion, so may I suggest that you simply ignore what I have to say. Thanks.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

DanaRuns said:


> Yes, he will look different now, but how will you know? I think it's odd people saying their dogs don't look different after early neutering, because most folks have no way of knowing what they would have looked like had they not been early neutered. *But you can tell the difference if you have an eye for it. I see it in dogs all the time, including dogs here that I've met, like Max.* When you develop an eye for it, you can tell 100% of the time which dogs were neutered early. You can look at a dog and ask the owner if he was neutered at 6 months old, and the owner will look at you funny and say, "Yes, how did you know?" But as far as looks go, so what? What difference does it make? He's your dog and he'll look how he looks. And he'll look like most other Goldens, since most Goldens are neutered early.
> 
> But it's a fact that your dog will develop longer legs, now, for one thing. And his bones won't be as thick as they would have, otherwise. And as he grows he will have a longer window for developing hip and elbow dysplasia. So you might just want to avoid forced exercise (repeated retrieves, jumping and leaping, or running/jogging) until he's about two years old.
> 
> Don't worry about him looking "feminine." He won't. And most likely he'll mark and lift his leg. And unfortunately it won't fix any behavioral problems (if he has any). Indeed, at dog parks he'll look more like the other Goldens there, as the vast majority of Goldens are neutered early. My intact dogs look like the odd men out when a bunch of Goldens get together. I often get comments from other Golden owners that my (show) dogs don't look like Goldens. I'm told they look short. One Golden owner asked if they were part Korgi!


I am only responding to your post because you chose to single out Max.

Really, Dana, you can tell by looking at Max that he was neutered early, presumably at 6 months? Actually, it was at 8 months and he weighed 99 pounds. Your source states a narrower chest and head. Hmm. Max has the largest chest of any Golden I have seen and people comment that he has a big head. He is not lanky, and his legs are quite thick, again, also larger than any other Golden I have met. He is nearly 5 years old and shows no signs of hip dysplasia or joint problems.

What exactly about Max tipped you off? You even commented to me at the beach that Max had even more muscle than Gibbs after I complemented you on what a handsome, muscular dog he was. As far as behavior goes, I noticed that Gibbs tried to hump Max, and that Max immediately let Gibbs know that was not acceptable with a growl and a showing of teeth. BTW, at around 7 months, Max began humping everything in sight; the neutering definitely reduced the humping.

I also wonder where you get the statistics that "most Goldens are neutered at 6 months." Is there a database somewhere that you consult? 

Opinions about the best time, or if, to neuter, vary. The research available about when the best time to neuter does not provide a definitive answer. To state that 6 months or 8 months is too early and would harm a male dog is not supported by the evidence that I have seen.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Sorry for singling Max out. I should not have. I'm not sure why people thing I'm condemning them; I'm not.


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## Lise123 (Jan 1, 2014)

To the OP: the undisputed king of our dog park is a golden boy who's about 5 years old. He is almost 100 pounds and is not overweight; he's a really big boy from big parents. He greets every person and dog who enters the dog park, and is the loveliest dog you can imagine. He's everything you could hope from a golden. He was neutered at 6 months.

My dog was neutered later, and he looks different from the dog park king. He's shorter and wider, with a bigger head. Everyone pities him a little because he's so much smaller and shorter than the reigning king... which doesn't bother my dog at all! 

My point is that they don't know what they look like, they don't care if they're taller or shorter, and everyone loves them up and pets them up anyway. Your dog is adorable and will be a wonderful companion for years to come, which is the best part of having a dog anyway.

I will add that my dog both squats and lifts a leg, usually at the same time, so I wonder if neutering really played much of a role in his goofy instincts.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Tmeekss said:


> Is it true that's it's going to change his looks


I'm probably going to regret entering in this conversation which seems kinda testy, but trying to be reasonable here or promote people to use some common sense while "thinking it out".

Testosterone is what encourages boy dogs to develop fully to the extent that nature intended them by genes or whatever. And it also regulates growth. *scratches head* So like with cats who are neutered early vs later, that generally do not develop the heads that intact cats have. Not that I think it is worth keeping cats intact considering the escape artists that they are + the fact you can't train a cat to come or stay home. Plus a lot of the behavioral issues with cats would drive me insane. Having a neutered cat who marks his territory and keeps all cats and catlike creatures (skunks count as catlike) off his property is bad enough. And to add, the humping with cats DOES stop when they are neutered thank goodness. Peeling a humping kitten off my senior dog's face was aggravating to say the least.....  

Um, I get that dogs obviously develop differently that cats and you can't totally compare and equate the two. But, there are such things as dogs taking 2-4 years to develop fully. They may come from very slow maturing lines. Other lines may develop quicker (I think we've all seen some dogs out there who look like 3 year olds as far as their heads and coats when they aren't even a year old). 

What that means is that some dogs may in fact have no issues being neutered early. They may already have big masculine heads and bone and muscular growth at 6 month. But there are other lines which absolutely are slow maturing. 

My Jacks was not fully mature looking as far as coat and overall appearance until he was nearly 3. Bertie is a show dog, so he did have a nice coat and good bone fairly early, but his head and muscular build is very slowly developing. I joke with friends that I seriously was worried that he was going to have a bitch head when all was said and done.  Oh and even "bone" there was a big difference between him and Jacks when would get my hands on their legs. Jacks with his fully mature bone and structure felt SOLID. His legs to use a corny description were like tree trunks. Bertie's bones were nowhere near feeling that hard and solid when he was 6-12 months old. 

About those dogs I've seen out there who were neutered early... I have definitely seen some funny looking dogs. Particularly those where their heads/legs/body (length and build) is all out of proportion as far as overall. You have dogs whose heads are too small for their bodies, who have long weedy legs, who might have deep chests but narrow shoulders, etc. 

Would these dogs have turned out differently if left intact? Maybe. I think there is enough understanding though as far as observing how these dogs grow and mature - that those parts which are "thrown off" or grow out of proportion or balance with the rest of the dog, are those areas where the dogs would be developing or maturing well past that point where they were neutered. 

Without really getting carried away, I just think instead of quick responses or retorts based on whatever side somebody chooses based on their own decisions, people need to be reasonable and thoughtful. 

What your dog looks like right now will not change suddenly because he is neutered now. But how he develops might change. He might grow taller and leggier than he otherwise would have. The rest of his body might keep growing but his head might not fill out as it otherwise would have. His coat might be fuller and different texture than it would have. 

^ Does not mean that OMG your dog's going to be ugly. I don't think that goes through anybody's head when it comes to their own dogs. And really truly, there is no telling how your dog would have turned out if left intact. Actually breeding behind a dog dictates what they will mature to look like... and then the hormones play a role one way or other.

Where I generally frustrated is when veterinarians and other people of authority of some kind constantly tell people horror stories if they leave their dogs intact past 5-9 months or whatever they encourage (one of my vets wants dogs neutered by 4 months). Testicular cancer is a reality, but it doesn't necessarily happen right away if a dog is left intact. You can neuter a dog later on in life, generally at that point where the dogs are getting up in age anyway and more likely to develop tumors. And even there, it is not as common as some would have you believe. 

I've said before, but my one vet has an advertisement on their phone that you get to listen to when they put you on hold which blames everything that might be training or health related on a dog being intact. 

People hear stuff like that and suddenly think they are going to have an aggressive humping marking-indoors nightmare on their hands if a dog is not neutered ASAP. <= They generally are surprised to find out that dogs actually can be very easy going and well-mannered even around bitches in heat or other intact dogs. What it does come down to though is training and socialization, areas that do require perseverance and care. Actually, this does not change when the dogs are neutered (you still have terrible dogs doing terrible stuff when they are neutered - difference is reasonable people will blame the owners instead of blaming the hormones).


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

I think the thing is most of us just want a companion that is healthy. If there does turn out to be a slight difference most of us dont care and wouldnt even beable to tell the difference. We arent showing our dogs. They are just pets.

I think instead of just giving links to read that some on the board do use scare tactics. This is a personal decision and those who do it at six months should not be made to feel bad.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Plus maybe the goldens that people say are leggier didnt come from premier breeders who show dogs and are sticklers to the standard. There is no way of proving it was from neutering. Our golden jake was already 25 pounds at 10 weeks. He was going to be a big boy no matter what. Chloe is going to be more in line with the breed standard. I doubt her spay in a few weeks will make her taller then what she was already going to be.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Cpc1972 said:


> I think the thing is most of us just want a companion that is healthy. If there does turn out to be a slight difference most of us dont care and wouldnt even beable to tell the difference. We arent showing our dogs. They are just pets.


I agree it's the owner's decision, but the same time people should be honest when owners ask questions or express concerns about early neuter/spay. This is a topic which comes up repeatedly and does demonstrate that while it is a personal decision, it is one where people are worried about what may happen which could affect the look and long term health of their dogs. And or, their nervous questions may stem from the scare tactics from people pushing for early n/s. 

You have people who have mouthy puppies who suddenly are worried about "aggression" because the puppies are still intact at 4-5 months. And these people have heard from their vets that neutering will stop all that.

Same thing with dogs who want to RUN and need a lot of exercise. The vets may tell these people that all that will stop and the pups will miraculously calm down after being neutered. 

Same thing as far as cancer (testicular and prostate with boys, for example). While a lot of this might not be a concern until past age 5 with a lot of dogs, some vets will have you believe that a dog still intact after 6 months will inevitably die from cancer.... 

A lot of this is reinforced constantly elsewhere to the point that people feel they will not have a normal or healthy dog if it's left intact a few months longer than otherwise recommended by their vets. 

This is where some of the links provided by people here and elsewhere is helpful, or at least provides more information for people who otherwise would rush into a decision because they've heard a lot of scary stuff from their vets.


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## GoldenOwner12 (Jun 18, 2008)

I don't believe that early desexing makes them grow taller etc. A dog will only grow to what its genetics will allow it too. My chihuahua and my sisters chihuahua is a good example there brothers Rascal is a typical apple head,short leged, and chubby, Casper was the dear head,longer legged,thin couldn't get him to gain weight, Both were desexed at 6 months. Shelley was desexed at 5 months old and from the picture of her sister who is still intact Shelley has a bigger blockier head and body then her sister. Genetics plays a roll on how big etc they are going to be, also how much exercise they get,and the diet there on. I believe desexing doesn't play a part, My old golden Einstein was desexed at 2 years old, I often had people ask if Shelley was a male and Einstein was female.


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## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

My vet suggested sterilising Buddy at 4 months too. As the first time owner of a male dog I came away with the impression that my boy was going to be a humping, girl chasing demon, who peed and marked everywhere, who would always run away and be over active not to mention that if I didn't do it I would be an irresponsable owner! He was sterilised at 6 months and with hindsight I should have researched further. But it's done now so I am not going to agonise about it. I acted in what I thought were his best interests at the time. But there is a lesson here in not blindly following the vets advice on all issues.


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## dezymond (May 3, 2012)

I had Maverick neutered at 6mo as well and he's a perfectly healthy dog almost 3yrs later. I wouldn't worry at all about anything.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

DanaRuns said:


> Opinions vary.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for those sources.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

Cpc1972 said:


> I think the thing is most of us just want a companion that is healthy. If there does turn out to be a slight difference most of us dont care and wouldnt even beable to tell the difference. We arent showing our dogs. They are just pets.
> 
> I think instead of just giving links to read that some on the board do use scare tactics. This is a personal decision and those who do it at six months should not be made to feel bad.



I don't give a link with a mind to scare anyone. I give a link as a starting point for research. There are many articles and many links to explain the statement that early spaying and neutering can affect dogs. 

I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad. I'm just giving the reasons why I've waited and why I would support waiting when talking about large breeds or performance dogs. 

I don't know the effect on toy breeds.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

GoldenOwner12 said:


> I don't believe that early desexing makes them grow taller etc. A dog will only grow to what its genetics will allow it too. My chihuahua and my sisters chihuahua is a good example there brothers Rascal is a typical apple head,short leged, and chubby, Casper was the dear head,longer legged,thin couldn't get him to gain weight, Both were desexed at 6 months. Shelley was desexed at 5 months old and from the picture of her sister who is still intact Shelley has a bigger blockier head and body then her sister. Genetics plays a roll on how big etc they are going to be, also how much exercise they get,and the diet there on. I believe desexing doesn't play a part, My old golden Einstein was desexed at 2 years old, I often had people ask if Shelley was a male and Einstein was female.



If early spaying neutering does not affect growth and height and build are controlled solely by genetics, then I should not have seen a difference in litter mates that I've seen. It could be simply a coincidence that out of that litter every single dog kept intact had heavier bone, broader chest and rib cage, and broader skulls. And every single dog that had been desexed early had longer legs and narrower faces. 

At doggy day care there are several goldens. Every single golden that was neutered early is longer of leg and narrower of head than Max. 

My border collie Dru was kept intact his whole life. His brothers and sisters from the same litter, who were neutered at six months, were all taller than him, yet he was same height as his father and an inch taller than his mother. Additionally, two of his litter mates had torn ACLs. Conformation did not matter to working border collies but soundness does, and the majority of working border collies are kept intact. Billy was only neutered at the ripe old age of ten because doggy day care required it. He is a carbon copy of his father, as far as build. 

There is a reason why many breeders stipulate in their contracts the age when their dogs aught to be desexed. They have done the research too. And based on that research, and based on the contract, if a dog who was neutered after two years of age develops dysplasia, for example, then there is a remedy from the breeder. Because dysplasia is one of the things that are related to early neutering, therefore early desexing affects the contract because incidence of dysplasia is related to early neutering. So if nothing else, I abide by my breeder's contract. 

This is not a matter of believing that one thing affects the other. There is research, which is where the links come in. 

Of course, one could ignore research and depend solely on what one may choose to believe. Max was neutered when he was two and a half because doggy day care and the contract required it. Emma will be spayed after at least one season and after one year of age. I will wait as long as I can, but certainly at least past at least one season and one year. Based on data from research I have read, based on my breeder's contract, that's what is correct for her and what I told their breeder I would do. If I want a third puppy from the same breeder, I have done the right thing for her, for me, and for my dogs.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Hey all, the OP's pup is already neutered, what's done is done, the surgery obviously can not be reversed. 
Her boy is going to be fine..........

Some of the comments I feel have been rude and offensive, please by more respectful to everyone. 

If you want to continue discussing the effects of neutering, early neutering, not neutering, etc, _*please start a new thread to do it.*_
Or post in one of the threads that already exists about it.


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

Cpc1972 said:


> I think the thing is most of us just want a companion that is healthy. If there does turn out to be a slight difference most of us dont care and wouldnt even beable to tell the difference. We arent showing our dogs. They are just pets.
> 
> *I think instead of just giving links to read that some on the board do use scare tactics.* This is a personal decision and those who do it at six months should not be made to feel bad.


I share links that I have personally found helpful and informative in MY decision to delay neuter Noah, not to scare anyone. 

I'm almost obsessive compulsive in the amount of information I try to gather when I'm making decisions with regards to Noah's health. I'm sure I'll make mistakes along the way, but I never share the links to SCARE anyone, but rather because they were rather eye opening to ME. I've always been pro neuter and spay. Until we got Noah. I won't get into a debate why for our family, delay neuter and very possibly no neuter at all is the decision that we came to.

Each of us is our dogs' advocate and we each have to make the decisions that we do based on what WE feel is best. MY best may not be YOUR best. And that's ok.


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## Katduf (Mar 10, 2013)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> Hey all, the OP's pup is already neutered, what's done is done, the surgery obviously can not be reversed.
> Her boy is going to be fine..........
> 
> Some of the comments I feel have been rude and offensive, please by more respectful to everyone.
> ...



Exactly! The OP was looking for reassurance, not a laundry list of things to worry about. To the OP, your dog will be great, he'll grow from a gorgeous pup into a beautiful dog, and you'll have many happy years together ?


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

OP, your pup is absolutely precious! Don't worry about having neutered him at the age you did. I am involved in rescue and all three of my boys were neutered fairly young, two at 4.5 months and one at 7 months (he had to recover from heart surgery before he could be neutered). I think they are all absolutely gorgeous and they vary in size from a bit less than 50 lbs to around 75 lbs.


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## GoldenOwner12 (Jun 18, 2008)

This is Shelley my 7 year old female golden retriever she is from a mix of field and show lines.
















Einstein my old boy at 10 years old who is now passed on
















My new boy Axel picture taken at 10 weeks old


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

Goldylover2 said:


> That's a bunch of hogwash. Don't let your dog jump, leap run or jog until he's two years old. Where do you come up with this crap? (...) So quit preaching your scare tactics to pet owners who get their dogs fixed before one year old. It's getting old.


It's actually not hogwash, and I don't think the previous poster was trying to scare anyone. 

When I got my first golden retriever, 8 years ago, I wanted a performance dog for agility. The breeder I went to asked that I not spay my pup until she was at least 18 months old, and that I leave her intact for as long as possible. I'm now looking round for another performance dog, and all the breeders I have approached, except for one, require, as a contractual condition, that the dog be left intact for at least 24 months.

There's a lot of research out there which shows the importance of allowing a dog to finish growing before altering it. This is particularly true for performance dogs, since they will need good bones and joints. Alongside this, trainers are increasingly recommending that dogs don't jump high or run extensively on hard surfaces until the growth plates have closed, at around 16 to 18 months. 

Obviously, it's up to each individual to decide whether or not they believe or wish to take notice of these research findings. And yes, some studies are more reliable than others. And yes, some findings are more relevant to performance dogs than to pet dogs. As with all research, it's important to keep a certain amount of perspective and use common sense when interpreting it.

It takes a long time for new ideas to percolate through the system and become generally accepted. Some people are more receptive, others are more resistant. It's the nature of society.

Eight years ago, when I didn't spay my performance dog at 6 months of age, I was in a very small minority. Today, all my agility colleagues without exception, when they get new pups for the sport, leave them intact for at least two years, regardless of breed. There has been a definite shift in practices during those eight years, at least in the agility world.

However, many vets still recommend early spaying or neutering for pets, and as lots of other posters have pointed out, the dogs go on to live long and happy lives. The OP shouldn't lose sleep over this. It's done. She did what her vet recommended, and that's fine. People have been doing the same thing with their dogs for decades, and have been perfectly happy with the results.

But that doesn't mean times and attitudes aren't changing. They are. It's normal. Otherwise we'd all still be travelling in horse-drawn vehicles, smoking ourselves to death and beating our children to make them listen!


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

rabernet said:


> I share links that I have personally found helpful and informative in MY decision to delay neuter Noah, not to scare anyone.
> 
> I'm almost obsessive compulsive in the amount of information I try to gather when I'm making decisions with regards to Noah's health. I'm sure I'll make mistakes along the way, but I never share the links to SCARE anyone, but rather because they were rather eye opening to ME. I've always been pro neuter and spay. Until we got Noah. I won't get into a debate why for our family, delay neuter and very possibly no neuter at all is the decision that we came to.
> 
> Each of us is our dogs' advocate and we each have to make the decisions that we do based on what WE feel is best. MY best may not be YOUR best. And that's ok.


I definitely don't think you have ever used scare tactics. I have always found your response very respectful. You explain your decision and provide links for everyone to get the information.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Tmeekss said:


> Alright so I didn't know that I wasnt supposed to neuter my puppy so early I was going by what the vet said and I trusted them. He just turned 6 months and he got fixed 2 weeks ago. After reading all the post about neutering puppy's to early I'm kind of worried now. Should I be worried ? Is it true that's it's going to change his looks and he will look more feminine and he's more likely to get cancer ? I get paranoid and all this is worrying me. I attached a photos just because also lol.


You have a beautiful pup! 
You haven't done anything wrong, nor condemned your pup to a life of misery, don't spoil your time with your pup worrying about what might or might not be. 
My golden boy is 8 years old, neutered at 6 months, he is happy, healthy, and going strong. Has never been sick, nor suffered physically with issues commonly contributed to neutering early. Did neutering him at that age, change his looks? I have no way of knowing, and he still looks like, and is, a golden to me, he is the same dog that I brought home as a puppy. Will he get cancer? statistics say that he could, but I am not going blame myself, IF he should. 

Spend your time giving him the life that every dog deserves, full of love and kindness, compassion and understanding for 'who he is', and above all, take some time every day to just have some fun!


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

I just want to do a bit to defend myself, here, and then I'll be quiet. I didn't intend to "scare" anyone. Indeed, my post was meant to be reassuring, as indicated by the bold, below.

Re: increased risk of cancer:



DanaRuns said:


> Statistically, he will now have a greater risk for cancer. *That doesn't mean he'll get it*, just that he's at a statistically higher risk. It increases the odds a bit, but probably not dramatically. *60% of Goldens get cancer anyway. It's a fact of life with our breed. It's not as if intact dogs don't get cancer. More than half of all Goldens get it.*


Re: changes in structure:



> Yes, he will look different now, but how will you know? I think it's odd people saying their dogs don't look different after early neutering, because most folks have no way of knowing what they would have looked like had they not been early neutered. But you can tell the difference if you have an eye for it. I see it in dogs all the time, including dogs here that I've met, like Max. When you develop an eye for it, you can tell 100% of the time which dogs were neutered early. You can look at a dog and ask the owner if he was neutered at 6 months old, and the owner will look at you funny and say, "Yes, how did you know?" *But as far as looks go, so what? What difference does it make? He's your dog and he'll look how he looks. And he'll look like most other Goldens, since most Goldens are neutered early.*
> 
> But it's a fact that your dog will develop longer legs, now, for one thing. And his bones won't be as thick as they would have, otherwise. And as he grows he will have a longer window for developing hip and elbow dysplasia. So you might just want to avoid forced exercise (repeated retrieves, jumping and leaping, or running/jogging) until he's about two years old.
> 
> ...


So, I was intending to reassure, not scare, basically saying that any increased risk of cancer is outweighed by the dramatic risks all Goldens face, and that his looks won't differ from most other Goldens he's likely to encounter. I hope that came through to the OP.


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## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

Not a good defense, counselor. The un-bolded is what sunk your argument.
Shouldn't use another forum member's dog as an example either.
Chalk it all up as another internet forum learning experience.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Tennyson said:


> Not a good defense, counselor. The un-bolded is what sunk your argument.
> Shouldn't use another forum member's dog as an example either.
> Chalk it all up as another internet forum learning experience.


Except for my reference to Max (which I've already apologized for), I couldn't disagree with you more. Nothing in there was a scare tactic. It's all simply factual, and I surrounded it with sincere, supportive statements. I know it's a "thing" in this country, lately, to ignore facts and have your own reality, but I don't do that. The message is that it's the truth that early neuter will make changes in a dog (or a human, for that matter), and it's just fine to acknowledge it. At the same time, the OP shouldn't worry about it, because it's done and the dog will be among the majority of Goldens, many of whom live to ripe old age. That's not a scare tactic or a bad thing. The only way I can think of that one would conclude otherwise is if one wants to deny that early neuter has any physical effect on the dog at all (and my sense is that that is exactly what some folks are saying), and any information to the contrary is seen as a threat to that view.

And with that, I am done with it. I will not participate in turning this into a personal back and forth that will get the thread locked. So y'all can have the last word. Have at me.


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## Goldylover2 (May 1, 2014)

Ok Dana...here's a picture of my last dog Ginger...when was she spayed? You say you can tell by the way they look.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Let's not pile on Dana, who is one of the most knowledgeable people on this board.

That said, my Max was neutered at 6 months - he's almost 8, he's never had a serious illness (may the doggie gods continue to smile upon him) and he looks pretty darned handsome to me. I didn't know any different - I took the vet's advice to have it done at 6 months. And I don't regret the decision, although it may not have been the best, it's done and I can't change it, so I'm not about to spend my days worrying about it.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

DanaRuns said:


> In a study of 1444 Golden Retrievers, bitches and dogs spayed or neutered at less than a year of age were significantly taller than those spayed or neutered after a year of age. Glickman L, Glickman N, Thorpe R. The Golden Retriever Club of America National Health Survey 1998-1999. http://www.grca.org/healthsurvey.pdf


Hey - can you link this better? It's broken, and I'm really curious about this "significantly taller" thing, since the research I've read seems to indicate long bone growth of a few extra millimeters in early neutered dogs, nothing that would add up to "significantly taller." I tried googling the Glickmans, but I couldn't find any specific finding about height that reflects what you said here.

Also, I think we need to be careful of applying research about _early_ neutered dogs (6-12 weeks) to dogs neutered at a more traditional age of six months. But that's just a broader caveat.


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## Goldylover2 (May 1, 2014)

Studies can be analyzed from so many angles it could make your head spin. Do they consider weight of the dog. A golden that weighs 65 pounds compared to one that weighs 100 pounds. Food the dog was fed its whole life. A twenty dollar food compared to a fifty dollar bag of food all the way up to a raw diet. Activity level of the dog. Some peoples dogs never get taken for a walk. Both my neighbors are perfect examples. I don't think there dogs have ever left the house or yard. These dogs don't know what exercise is. I'm sure there are many other criterias that some of you could come up with that these studies don't consider. Taking a group of goldens over a five or ten year span and grouping them all together no matter what is hogwash IMO. I don't give any credence to them at all.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

I thought there had been a request from a mod to continue the discussion of early/late neutering in another thread. Because if that's not the case, I'll jump in here too. There are some seriously rude and aggressive posts here against someone who is quoting data, as opposed to blind personal opinions grabbed out of thin air. 

Mods?


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

DanaRuns said:


> Except for my reference to Max (which I've already apologized for), I couldn't disagree with you more. Nothing in there was a scare tactic. It's all simply factual, and I surrounded it with sincere, supportive statements. I know it's a "thing" in this country, lately, to ignore facts and have your own reality, but I don't do that. The message is that it's the truth that early neuter will make changes in a dog (or a human, for that matter), and it's just fine to acknowledge it. At the same time, the OP shouldn't worry about it, because it's done and the dog will be among the majority of Goldens, many of whom live to ripe old age. That's not a scare tactic or a bad thing. The only way I can think of that one would conclude otherwise is if one wants to deny that early neuter has any physical effect on the dog at all (and my sense is that that is exactly what some folks are saying), and any information to the contrary is seen as a threat to that view.
> 
> And with that, I am done with it. I will not participate in turning this into a personal back and forth that will get the thread locked. So y'all can have the last word. Have at me.



Hardly "have at you." I fully support your argument. For what it's worth the reasons you've stated are the reasons I've waited too, and will wait with any future puppies.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Yes, I asked members participating in this thread to stay on topic of the OP's original question and asked members if they want to discuss/debate neutering, not neutering, early neutering, etc. to open a new thread or continue posting in one of the many threads on this topic.


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## Goldylover2 (May 1, 2014)

Lilliam said:


> Hardly "have at you." I fully support your argument. For what it's worth the reasons you've stated are the reasons I've waited too, and will wait with any future puppies.


Good for you.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

Goldylover2 said:


> Good for you.



Yes. And good for my dogs.


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## Goldylover2 (May 1, 2014)

Lilliam said:


> Yes. And good for my dogs.


My dogs are fine also.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

Goldylover2 said:


> My dogs are fine also.


..................


CAROLINA MOM said:


> Yes, I asked members participating in this thread to stay on topic of the OP's original question and asked members if they want to discuss/debate neutering, not neutering, early neutering, etc. to open a new thread or continue posting in one of the many threads on this topic.


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## Rob's GRs (Feb 25, 2007)

I am disappointed in how some comments of some members here were presented in a thread that could have been more informative in nature, instead of argumentative. Being the case this thread is closed and will now be under review by the Mod team.


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