# A guy kicked my dog today!



## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

The option is always open to break the guy's nose. As a younger man, that's how I might have responded to this situation. Now, as a dad, I might have just called the guy a really mean name, and moved on.

If your dog was actually injured, you could call the police, but if the result of his behavior was simply that your dog was scared, there's not much you can do. Police would probably side with the guy, because they would say it's your responsibility to keep your dog contained.

An option would be to share this information with as many park frequenters as possible, so they know to keep their dogs and children away from this guy. He's obviously got some sort of imbalance that suppresses his humanity...perhaps he's a sociopath...


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

We had an experience like this a couple of years ago. We were in a conservation area where many people have dogs off leash. A woman runner was approaching in the distance and Zoe ran to greet her, not heeding my call. She didn't jump on the woman but was trying to get her attention by dancing around her. The woman responded by kicking her a couple times. By this time I had arrived and leashed Zoe up. I think the woman also said something nasty to me. It just shocked me that an adult woman could be so cruel but I realized that since Zoe didn't respond to my call I wasn't in a position to complain.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You had an off-leash, out of control dog who totally ignored you and bulldozed this guy and his small dog, who could easily be injured. And you're mad at HIM for defending himself?


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## FeatherRiverSam (Aug 7, 2009)

That's terrible but there are people like that out there unfortunately. But the bottom line is you need to control your dog. You should have been able to prevent your dog from interacting with this guy & his dog. A long lead might be a good idea for the time being in a setting like this.

There are all sorts of situations you'll run into...some kids are absolutely terrified of dogs and an uncontrolled dog off lead can be a terrifying event for them. There are seniors out there who have balance issues and a happy go lucky out of control puppy is the last thing they need to run into. There are people working with fear aggressive dogs, on lead, who don't need your out of control puppy trying to greet them no matter how fast his tail is wagging. And there are people with aggressive dogs who could really hurt your dog. It's your responsibility to have complete control over your dog, for his protection and for the protection of others.

I'm glad your little pup is okay...

Pete & Woody


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## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

Glad your pup is okay but the fact is that your dog was unleashed and not in your control. While kicking your dog may be a bit drastic put yourself in the other owner's place and think how you would respond.
Keep your dog on leash and always in your control. Lesson learned.


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## LeilaM (Sep 14, 2012)

It was not wise to have your dog off leash at the park, for her safety. Depending on the laws in your state and or city it may also be illegal. It doesn't sound as if your dog has been traumatized by this event, but from now on, keep your dog on a leash.

As a mom, I also would not want the distraction of an off leash dog while I was also watching my kids at a park. Too many opportunities for trouble from both children and puppy.


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## CStrong73 (Jun 11, 2012)

I kind of have to agree with K-9 Design here. Not that the guy should have kicked your dog. But, I do think if you are with your two young children, and your dog doesn't have a rock-solid recall, then he/she should be on leash. There's just too much that could go wrong when your attention is divided like that. (I say this as a mother of three with a young golden).

There are a lot of people out there (even other dog owners) who don't really understand dog behavior enough to tell the difference between an exuberant but friendly pup, and a dog who is a threat. And aside from that, there are cars, traffic, other animals that might not be vaccinated....all kinds of things your dog could get into that you couldn't stop if you're busy with the kids.

When I've had situations where Rocket was off-leash and someone came upon us unexpectedly....I always feel guilty. I'm the one whose dog is not under control. Although Rocket DID come immediately when we were in this situation this weekend. A woman came to the playground entrance with her Husky and Rocket bolted over. I apologized immediately and called him to me. And he came to me immediately.

But, if he hadn't, I would have taken responsibility for anything that happened, since her dog was on leash and mine wasn't.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Cailín's mom said:


> I am a new dog owner and with her and my two children it is sometimes a little manic when we are out. But she is generally very well behaved and I have not come across another soul, adult or child, who feared she was aggressive.
> Should I have done something differently?


I think it's wrong to assume that because you have a friendly and lovable golden retriever that something like this is okay. Not everyone is going to appreciate your dog running up to them and I guarantee this guy will not be the last. Plus, at 9 months old, she may still have a puppy brain but most will probably view her as an adult dog due to her size. 


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## Cailín's mom (Nov 18, 2012)

Thanks for all your replies guys, I really appreciate them. 
I completely agree that I was at fault for the fact that my dog did not respond to me and that she should not have gone to the man and dog. As I approached the man, I apologised and said she wants to play and it was then he kicked her. 
So I would certainly not have complained that he was annoyed by Cailín's behaviour but his actions were completely over the top. 
K9 I have to say that yes I am complaining that he kicked my pup. His dog could in no way have been hurt and cailín definitely did not bulldoze them. 

Anyway, as many of you say, I'll have to take the long lead out again. Thanks again


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## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

K9-Design said:


> Whoa, whoa, whoa. You had an off-leash, out of control dog who totally ignored you and bulldozed this guy and his small dog, who could easily be injured. And you're mad at HIM for defending himself?


He didn't have to kick the dog. There were plenty of alternatives to kicking the dog and holding it down with his boot. He could have picked up his dog, or simply got in between the golden and his dog.

9 month old goldens can be high energy terrors, but not so much that they should overwhelm and intimidate an able-bodied grown man.

Just because the golden's owner may have failed to practice some discernment does not give a person the right to be a sadistic pig about it. 2 wrongs don't make a right, and kicking a dog and pinning it down with one's boot is complete overkill.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

goldentemperment said:


> He didn't have to kick the dog. There were plenty of alternatives to kicking the dog and holding it down with his boot. He could have picked up his dog, or simply got in between the golden and his dog.
> 
> 9 month old goldens can be high energy terrors, but not so much that they should overwhelm and intimidate an able-bodied grown man.
> 
> Just because the golden's owner may have failed to practice some discernment does not give a person the right to be a sadistic pig about it. 2 wrongs don't make a right, and kicking a dog and pinning it down with one's boot is complete overkill.


Sorry, if I'm out walking my dog and a strange dog is running up to us and ignoring its owners commands, I'm going to do what I have to do to keep it away. How do I know what its intentions are, until its possibly too late. On a different note, what if MY dog is aggressive, and I know a strange dog running up to my dog will result in a dog fight? When I walk my dogs on leash, I carry a stick, and will use it if necessary.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

I never leave my dogs off leash because I know there recalls may not be perfect. Having said that I think K-9 Design there is no reason for harsh treatment of a puppy by someone especially if the owner is right behind trying to get their dog. Not everyone thinks it's okay to kick a dog.


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## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

goldentemperment said:


> He didn't have to kick the dog. There were plenty of alternatives to kicking the dog and holding it down with his boot. He could have picked up his dog, or simply got in between the golden and his dog.
> 
> 9 month old goldens can be high energy terrors, but not so much that they should overwhelm and intimidate an able-bodied grown man.
> 
> Just because the golden's owner may have failed to practice some discernment does not give a person the right to be a sadistic pig about it. 2 wrongs don't make a right, and kicking a dog and pinning it down with one's boot is complete overkill.


You can't expect every other dog owner to be educated on the temperament of young goldens.


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## olliversmom (Mar 13, 2013)

*Off Leash*

So very sorry your baby was kicked. 
My lovely dog Homer was the sweetest, gentlest giant of a pup who would stop on a dime when told. When we were in the woods or in areas with no other people he was allowed to run free. When we were in areas with people/dogs/whatever, he was always on lead, unless I knew the people or dogs.
Reason trustworthy Homer was on lead: Some people are absolutely terrified of dogs. Some people just don't like dogs. Some people have dogs that are aggressive. And, many times when one dog is on lead, and another dog is not, a normally nice dog can become aggressive or protective of their owner. There are many others reasons to keep your pup on a lead when in public, his/her own safety included. 
So glad pup was not hurt


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## Max-n-Nick (May 23, 2013)

I know jeeze all the guy had to do was pick his dog up, the owner was right behind him! I know if someone kicked my pup they would get kicked back as well and a few choice words, both were wrong but no reason to kick a dog 


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Cailín's mom said:


> K9 I have to say that yes I am complaining that he kicked my pup. His dog could in no way have been hurt and cailín definitely did not bulldoze them.



• his dog's leash could become entangled around him, his dog, or your dog, resulting in a fall or choking incident
• his dog could be knocked over, kicked or squashed by your large exuberant dog
• his dog could act aggressively to defend itself and as a result be attacked by your large dog that could cause significant damage
• his dog could back out of its collar trying to escape, run off and be lost or killed
• he could trip or fall himself and be injured

See, lots of ways he or his dog could have been hurt. This stuff happens A LOT. He has NO IDEA that your dog is friendly. I have kicked loose dogs too, because they were quickly approaching and their owners were too oblivious to stop it!

Yes, time for the long line.


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## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

Tennyson said:


> You can't expect every other dog owner to be educated on the temperament of young goldens.


The breed of dog has nothing to do with it. The man was clearly capable of restraining the golden, because he did, with very little effort, and so overwhelmed the strength and energy of the young golden as to pin it down with his boot.

That is not the picture of a weakling or someone gravely concerned with his own safety or the safety of his dog. His intention was to punish the golden and terrorize the owner. It was a sadistic act by a person who had plenty of alternatives.

The OP was not in the right, but like I mentioned above, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Just because someone has the means to protect themselves doesn't mean any situation requiring assertiveness requires last-line-of-defense measures.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

The longer I have had the larger breed dogs, the more I find out that some people are just terrified of bigger dogs - even if they are restrained and under control. I was amazed how many people were afraid of Brady when he was three months old and looked like a teddy bear.

I have also had in the past had my toy size dog who was leashed picked up by a loose dog in his mouth and shaken like a rag doll, breaking his ribs, puncturing his lungs, and losing much of his blood.

It is up to us to protect our dogs to the best of our ability. You don't know what the man has gone through with his dog and other dogs. He probably did go overboard, but picking up his dog might not have been the right solution either if your dog was truly a vicious dog. In his mind, he just saw a dog bigger than his coming after his dog.

Sorry your dog had to experience that and glad she is okay.


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## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

goldentemperment said:


> The breed of dog has nothing to do with it. The man was clearly capable of restraining the golden, because he did, with very little effort, and so overwhelmed the strength and energy of the young golden as to pin it down with his boot.
> 
> That is not the picture of a weakling or someone gravely concerned with his own safety or the safety of his dog. His intention was to punish the golden and terrorize the owner. It was a sadistic act by a person who had plenty of alternatives.
> 
> The OP was not in the right, but like I mentioned above, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Just because someone has the means to protect themselves doesn't mean any situation requiring assertiveness requires last-line-of-defense measures.


You're assuming a lot of intangibles. Terrorizing the golden's owner? 
Bottom Line is that he did what he did and if the OP had her pup on the leash while playing with 2 toddlers nothing would have happened.
This isn't a perfect "la, la world" we live in.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

This is one of the reasons recall is my highest priority right after housebreaking. There are some really crazy, mean people out there- not many, but enough. I always fear my dogs having a bad experience like yours did. 

I hike my dogs every day, and a loose dog running up is a daily occurence (either nice pet owners who just don't realize or pro dog walkers turning loose 10-15 dogs which I hate). Bc of that, I can't take my in season girl on a leash or any dog who is not 100 percent bombproof anywhere I can think of besides my own property. On the other hand, I understand that friendly dogs do run up. I would never think of kicking or reprimanding a friendly dog or hitting one with a stick. 

I worry if your puppy runs up to the wrong dog, she could be hurt or even killed. Plenty of even pretty tolerant adult dogs have no patience for "teeneagers" at 9 months, her "puppy card" is pretty much revoked by adults. 

The other thing is dog grouchy people are always looking for a reason to ban dogs completely. I never want to give them ammunition by having my dogs behave poorly in public.

Saying that, most people are alot more tolerant than this guy. 

If the dog can be off leash with a snappy recall, and there is a voice control or no leash needed rule, it is great. If the dog is unsteady on recall or if there is a leash law, you have to abide by it.

When you do attend dog shows and trials etc, you get in a different mindset about dogs getting too close to yours than many (not all) pet dog owners have.

What is great is to have dogs who recall promptly to come and sit. Try to have fun working on her recall. Sneak away when she is napping or playing indoors, call her, and give her a treat. throw her a party when she comes to find you. Call her back and forth between people and reward her every time she comes etc.


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

This is a similar conversation I had with my husband the other day.

I never let my dogs off leash. I know they'd come back but still, I don't like to because there's traffic and pedestrians and dogs every where.

I walk my dogs several times a day and last week I came across a loose dog (yellow lab) and a lady in her front yard.

The dog comes running up to both of mine as the lady is yelling "She's friendly!!" 

That's great that your dog is friendly, but how do you know mine are?! Also, as the lady finally got to her dog to pull her away, her dog starts barking in Tucker's face... 

For this very reason, I do not like off-leash dogs and I cringe every time I see one because I'm afraid its going to come and approach my dogs.


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

As I've written here before not all Goldens are dog friendly. I owned one! I agree a dog that does not have recall should not be off leash. The man was frightened for his small dog. Lesson to be learned.


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## dezymond (May 3, 2012)

Sorry to hear what happened to your pup, but if he felt that Cailin was threatening to his dog then he does indeed have the right to protect himself and his dog. 

Maybe he just doesn't know K9 body language. I'm just glad to hear Cailin wasn't seriously injured.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

This is from other side of things... when we were on our way to CA and we stopped for the night at a motel. Titan and I were headed up to our room for the last time of the night and a small dog came around the corner and was coming straight at us.. I could not afford to have him bite at Titan right before a huge event and there was no way I was putting my hand down there to stop the dog. I put my foot out to block the dog because he was on a mission.. I did not kick at the dog.. but I kept my foot between him and Titan. A lady comes barreling about the corner and screaming at me not to kick her dog... After she grabbed the little dog I put Titan in the room and tried to explain I was not kicking her dog and did she realize how dangerous that was to let him loose on a second floor.. While Titan is the most laid back dog he was not happy when another dog was charging up to us.. I can't blame the guy for putting his foot out.. sometimes your brain does not respond quite as fast and your only thought is to keep them apart.. and there would be no way I would put my hand down to grab anyone else's dog. I am not going to get bit.. Crazy things happen in the heat of the moment..


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## Cailín's mom (Nov 18, 2012)

Thanks all for your constructive comments, they are really helpful. 
I will definitely be keeping her on leash from now on. Her recall is excellent, until she sees another dog! Which I do know is simply not good enough. 
I worry that she is not getting enough exercise when I keep her on leash. Unfortunately most days my children are with me for walks (I adore my children but would love to take cailín for long brisk walks). So our walks are slow and not very extensive. 
Whereas if I walk to the park or beach and then allow her off leash (allowed by law), then she has a great run and play.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

Was it a hard, actual kick... or was it an attempt to deter your dog with his foot? This is probably not going to be well received, but I would absolutely not second guess using my body to intervene with an off leash dog running directly at us, especially if they are not responding to owner recall. I would never _kick_ a playful puppy, but I wouldn't hesitate to hook my foot under their chest or side and gently turn them away in an emergency situation, especially if my hands are busy restraining my own dog. A gentle foot jab from me and some form of restraint is going to be a hell of a lot safer for that dog than if my dog were to react defensively/aggressively, and I will not let an off leash dog ruin months of reactivity training work in a designated on leash area or let my dog ruin a young puppy's experience with another dog. My dog needs to know that I will step in and protect him when another dog is not respecting his signals, so that he doesn't have to make a dangerous choice by himself.

If this was a small dog, the guy should have totally just picked up his dog, but take this as a valuable lesson. Your puppy has just proven to you that A.) her recall is not reliable and B.) she needs further understanding of warning signals from other dogs, especially adults. Next time it might not be a small dog, and next time it might be a dog that is not friendly. 

Glad everyone is okay though


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## dezymond (May 3, 2012)

Cailín's mom said:


> Thanks all for your constructive comments, they are really helpful.
> I will definitely be keeping her on leash from now on. Her recall is excellent, until she sees another dog! Which I do know is simply not good enough.
> I worry that she is not getting enough exercise when I keep her on leash. Unfortunately most days my children are with me for walks (I adore my children but would love to take cailín for long brisk walks). So our walks are slow and not very extensive.
> Whereas if I walk to the park or beach and then allow her off leash (allowed by law), then she has a great run and play.


Even in an offleash park or beach I would probably use a long leash. Sure it's allowed, but you never know what your pup is going to do. 

Recently Mav and I went to the beach, we've gone a couple of times, but last time was the first time I let him off leash. He did really well and although his recall isn't 100% it's fairly good. Well until he saw the seagull shadow and chased it across the beach for about 50ft.:doh:


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## caroline162 (Jun 11, 2013)

cubbysan said:


> The longer I have had the larger breed dogs, the more I find out that some people are just terrified of bigger dogs - even if they are restrained and under control.


This. I am also amazed at how ignorant people are of dog body language. My mother had a 130lbs Rottweiler who was the biggest baby - he thought he should be a lap dog and if a stranger came to the house, he would hide (or try to ha!) behind our legs until he knew they were friends. He would greet everyone with a tail wag and smile while on a leash, and was just generally the most gentle sweet dog. But he was HUGE. And people were TERRIFIED of him - so we really had to watch it, because people would act like they were going to hit him with a stick or otherwise "defend" themselves against him, even though he was not acting even remotely threatening to them.

It sounds like from what we DO know about this situation, the guy totally overreacted. I would have been really angry too, and I think you have a right to be. You also know now not to trust your pup off leash. Glad everyone is okay.


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## Cailín's mom (Nov 18, 2012)

I see what you are saying Mirinde, but I do not believe the guy viewed it as an emergency situation. His own demeanour was not one of panic and I was right there already speaking to him when he kicked her and pinned her. But again you are completely right, she has shown me those things. And now that you say it, I realise she has no understanding of warning signs from other dogs! How do I help her learn that?


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

caroline162 said:


> This. I am also amazed at how ignorant people are of dog body language. My mother had a 130lbs Rottweiler who was the biggest baby - he thought he should be a lap dog and if a stranger came to the house, he would hide (or try to ha!) behind our legs until he knew they were friends. He would greet everyone with a tail wag and smile while on a leash, and was just generally the most gentle sweet dog. But he was HUGE. And people were TERRIFIED of him - so we really had to watch it, because people would act like they were going to hit him with a stick or otherwise "defend" themselves against him, even though he was not acting even remotely threatening to them.
> 
> It sounds like from what we DO know about this situation, the guy totally overreacted. I would have been really angry too, and I think you have a right to be. You also know now not to trust your pup off leash. Glad everyone is okay.


I just recently found out that my daughter's friend, who comes to our house at least once a week and sleeps over at least once a month is terrified of my dogs - even though my dogs usually cuddle with her while she is sleeping. Because she has two small dogs, she just cannot understand the larger dogs and how they interact with people.


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## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

Tennyson said:


> Bottom Line is that he did what he did and if the OP had her pup on the leash while playing with 2 toddlers nothing would have happened.
> This isn't a perfect "la, la world" we live in.


A person doesn't need to look very far to find jerks...that much is clear. 

So, in response to the OP's question, "should I have done something differently?" the answer is: Yes. Keep your pup on lead and away from the guy who kicked your dog.

I think we have a right to expect people (especially people who have the strength and means to respond however they want) not to abuse our dogs when they act a little overzealous. I don't think I live in some sheltered, perfect "la, la world" just because I believe that. 

The man's behavior was outrageous, and I think any dog owner would have the right to be outraged at his abusive behavior.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

goldentemperment said:


> That is not the picture of a weakling or someone gravely concerned with his own safety or the safety of his dog. His intention was to punish the golden and terrorize the owner. It was a sadistic act by a person who had plenty of alternatives.


I agree with this 100%. He was not concerned for his safety or his dogs, or he would had picked up his dog. Most people that are deathly afraid of dogs don't own dogs. The op was 5 steps away and called out to him that he was just trying to play. Most dog owners _kno_w a dog bouncing around wagging his tail is not a sign of aggression. 

I have come across people so deathly afraid of dogs that they have called out and told me they were afraid of dogs and if I could please walk far enough around them. No problem.

OP I walk Wyatt everyday off leash, however I am always looking ahead or behind and if I do see people coming I will hook him up, not because of Wyatt hurting anyone but because I don't trust other people or their dogs. Perhaps when you see others coming your way you can hook him up before they get there. There are too many crazy people in this world and unfortunately you came across one


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

goldentemperment said:


> A person doesn't need to look very far to find jerks...that much is clear.
> 
> So, in response to the OP's question, "should I have done something differently?" the answer is: Yes. Keep your pup on lead and away from the guy who kicked your dog.
> 
> ...


There are two sides to every story - and the truth is somewhere in the middle. You're only hearing one side of this. You have no idea what was going through the guy's mind, or if his little dog was attacked by a bigger dog at one point. You didn't see his reaction, so to judge the guy and paint him a jerk is a big unfair.

There's a security guy where I work, big, strong, guy who carries a gun. He's TERRIFIED of Max. If Max were to run up to him, I have no doubt that this guy would do whatever he felt he needed to do to protect himself, even though there would be no danger of anything more than Max possibly jumping on him. 

I know this, and I never let Max near him - and the guy has thanked me more than once. I don't know why he's scared, but he is. It's not his job to deal with my dog, it's mine.


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## FeatherRiverSam (Aug 7, 2009)

goldentemperment said:


> A person doesn't need to look very far to find jerks...that much is clear.
> 
> So, in response to the OP's question, "should I have done something differently?" the answer is: Yes. Keep your pup on lead and away from the guy who kicked your dog.
> 
> ...


I agree, I think in this case as described this man overreacted. But I think the point that's trying to be made is that it should have never have happened in the first place. Her dog should have been leashed and she has acknowledged this which I think is great.

I think it might be a good idea to look into dog training classes both for you and your dog. Socialization is a key ingredient when raising your pup and classes will help you accomplish this in a safe manor.

As far as exercise throwing a tennis ball in your back yard or even an empty tennis court is a wonderful form of exercise. No other dogs or people to worry about and it's more exercise than she'd get on a walk. Also tug of war is great exercise and most dogs, particularly goldens, love it.

Good luck..I think you've been given some good advice here.

Pete & Woody


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I've only come across one person who was truly a jerk when walking my dog. I was walking Fisher (on a leash) once in my neighborhood when all of a sudden it started pouring down rain. I was completely stuck, just had to keep walking and accept I was going to get soaked. A man was walking toward us on the sidewalk, saying something to me, but the rain was so loud I couldn't understand what he was saying, so when I passed him I stopped to hear him, thinking he probably is commenting on both of us getting stuck in the rain. Fisher of course went up and sniffed his hand (completely calm, Fisher doesn't get excited about strangers), and at that point I realized he was CURSING at me to keep my dog away from him! He was really nasty, to the point of me thinking : Is this for real or am I on candid camera?? It was very upsetting, and I had done nothing wrong. Idiots like that are completely unpredictable, but people walking little dogs being scared and defensive when a large, out of control dog runs at them, are much more predictable (and preventable).


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## CStrong73 (Jun 11, 2012)

laprincessa said:


> There's a security guy where I work, big, strong, guy who carries a gun. He's TERRIFIED of Max. If Max were to run up to him, I have no doubt that this guy would do whatever he felt he needed to do to protect himself, even though there would be no danger of anything more than Max possibly jumping on him.
> 
> I know this, and I never let Max near him - and the guy has thanked me more than once. I don't know why he's scared, but he is. It's not his job to deal with my dog, it's mine.


There's a woman who I work with who comes into the office sometimes. She's owned a Golden in the past. Intellectually, she knows that Rocket is a big goofy pup and not aggressive. She knows the breed.

BUT....she was attacked out of the blue by a dog recently. Was bitten badly enough to need stitches. She was completely traumatized by it. She knows this, knows she shouldn't generalize to all dogs, but she can't help herself.

I've had Rocket at the office when she comes in. I leash him up and hold him 15 feet away while I talk to this lady. She thinks Rocket is beautiful, and really wants to pet him, but she can't get over her fear, caused by that one other unpredictable dog. I'm sure if I wasn't there and Rocket ran up and tried to jump up on her (typical golden puppy) she would absolutely panic and kick, hit, scream, whatever she had to do to get away from him.

You really just never know what another person's past experiences are, and can't make assumptions about their motives.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

CStrong73 said:


> There's a woman who I work with who comes into the office sometimes. She's owned a Golden in the past. Intellectually, she knows that Rocket is a big goofy pup and not aggressive. She knows the breed.
> 
> BUT....she was attacked out of the blue by a dog recently. Was bitten badly enough to need stitches. She was completely traumatized by it. She knows this, knows she shouldn't generalize to all dogs, but she can't help herself.
> 
> ...


That is horrible! And I bet this woman will never own another dog.


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## CStrong73 (Jun 11, 2012)

Wyatt's mommy said:


> That is horrible! And I bet this woman will never own another dog.


Nope, she definitely won't own a dog. The one who attacked her was a dog that her son had gotten recently from a shelter. She stopped at their house and came in and was chatting with her daughter in law, grandkids right there. The dog went from standing there, to lunging and taking a chunk out of her leg for absolutely no reason.

If I didn't know her and know why she was so scared, I'd think she was nuts for being afraid of Rocket. Knowing her past, I can't blame her at all. When I do bring Rocket to the office (which is pretty rare), I keep the front door locked so that I will see her and be able to leash up beforre she comes in. Then there's the mail lady and UPS man who LOVE Rocket and come with treats in their pockets.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

CStrong73 said:


> Nope, she definitely won't own a dog. The one who attacked her was a dog that her son had gotten recently from a shelter. She stopped at their house and came in and was chatting with her daughter in law, grandkids right there. The dog went from standing there, to lunging and taking a chunk out of her leg for absolutely no reason.
> 
> If I didn't know her and know why she was so scared, I'd think she was nuts for being afraid of Rocket. Knowing her past, I can't blame her at all. When I do bring Rocket to the office (which is pretty rare), I keep the front door locked so that I will see her and be able to leash up beforre she comes in. Then there's the mail lady and UPS man who LOVE Rocket and come with treats in their pockets.


How sad! I have a friend that has been bitten before also although he is fine being around Wyatt, he won't ever give him something from his hands. AND will never own a dog. That is why I think this guy with the dog was not terrified of the op's golden jmho


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## Door (Apr 2, 2010)

If you have a smart phone, take his picture. And make it obvious. Even if you don't do anything more, you will have made a statement.


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## UplandHntr (Feb 24, 2011)

Many years ago my wife and I were walking our dog with a stroller filler with our 1 year old son. A small dog came out of a cul de sac and ran up to us. In 2 seconds the dogs were wrapped around the stroller and flipped it backwards with my son hitting the back of his head on the street. It happened that fast - nobody could react. 
Make NO assumptions - he didnt know your dog was a pup, friendly, etc or the complete opposite. He had his dog leashed.. Im guessing almost all parks have leash laws. If you wouldve kicked him back, he wouldve been well within his rights to call the police on you. You probably would have rec'd multiple tix. 
Lesson learned I hope. Sorry to be frank.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

This is such a great discussion. I agree with K9 and with LA. The guy was within his rights and there is always more to the story than we know or perceive. When Bear and I walk(Ed) I would ALWAYS be scared because there neighbors who tell stories of dog attacks. 

Also, we learned this lesson right away when Bear was 3 months old. My 63 year old father came over for Turkey Day and even though I worked on calm behavior, Bear was still a fluff ball. I made the mistake of letting him out of the crate without being on lead. His first impulse was to say hi as 3 months old say hi. He jumped into my Dad's lap, knocking him around and he gave my dad horrible bruises and scratches. I was appalled and embarrassed by Bear. So very apologetic. The next day, Bear slipped away from me and ran towards my Dad. Dad kicked his foot out then used his cane to intimidate bear. I couldn't be mad. Dad didn't want to deal with the puppy and he shouldn't have to. Same goes for strangers. 

I will always remember when I was walking Bear outside a Sprouts. Bear was a little over 4 months. Nothing but a paperweight compared to today. But a woman walked passed me, saw Bear (on a leash sitting calmly), dropped her groceries with a scream and started crying. She was terrified of large dogs. To her Bear might as well have been a bear. I apologized for startling her, moved Bear away as quickly as possible. She did come back up to us and explained the situation. I am sure if Bear had moved towards her she would have lashed out even though he was leashed and I was right there. 


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Here is my take on it.
I have a dog that is very dog aggressive when he is on a leash. If a loose dog comes running up to us there WILL be a fight, I will try everything in my power to keep them apart-I have maced dogs in the past. At that point, the welfare of my dog is more important than the other dog.
But, because he is leash aggressive, I never take him to places where it is okay for dogs to be off leash. So he never gets to go into the open spaces where I live or on hikes with me. I figure at that point it's also my responsibility to keep him away from dogs that are rightfully off leash.
Also, I know one person who is absolutely terrified of dogs (he's from another country and has memories of packs of stray dogs attacking people when he was a child). Even the friendliest dog comes across as ready to attack to him. It's up to us to remember that not everyone likes dogs and shouldn't let our dogs invade other people's space.


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## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

I agree this guy was within his rights. I get so aggravated with people letting their dog off leash when they don't have 100% recall. The dog runs around doing whatever while the owner yells "IT'S OK HE DOESN'T BITE"

It's not ok and I'll give you something else to consider here. Ky, my Akita, is a sweetheart. She listens and obeys me better than any dog I've had. However, she would lay down her life for me in a heartbeat. If a dog came charging at us she would automatically go into protect mode. At that point she is MUCH harder to control. She is on leash 100% of the time. but if your dog ran at us and ignored you I would much prefer to kick your dog to get it to back away than to have Ky get it by the throat. The German Shepard she stopped from attacking me didn't like having his throat in her mouth.

I'm glad it turned out ok for all involved in this incident but it could have been really bad. Please, please, please keep your dog on leash until you have tested him in every scenario and he has 100% recall. 

And for the record, I do not believe in kicking a dog or any other types of abuse. In this case however, had it been me and Ky me kicking your dog could have saved it's life. Something to think about.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Max-n-Nick said:


> I know jeeze all the guy had to do was pick his dog up, the owner was right behind him! I know if someone kicked my pup they would get kicked back as well and a few choice words, both were wrong but no reason to kick a dog
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



He shouldn't HAVE to pick up his dog to protect it from an overly excited larger dog. The OP's dog should have been on leash, plain and simple. 

I have an over exuberant golden who doesn't have a mean bone in his body. He has to stay leashed most of the time because he thinks every single person and dog in this world should love him as much as he loves them. It's my responsibility to protect him from himself.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

fostermom said:


> He shouldn't HAVE to pick up his dog to protect it from an overly excited larger dog. The OP's dog should have been on leash, plain and simple.
> 
> .


True! But it was an option. Which one would you have chosen? Everyone should have the right to protect themselves and their dogs, however the kick could had been avoided JMHO.


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## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

Anybody know if the "kicker" has back problems which prevented him from bending down and picking up his dog?

Anybody know if this isn't the first confrontation the "kicker" has had with his leashed small dog and an overly excited puppy?

Assuming only reinforces weak arguments.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Tennyson said:


> Anybody know if the "kicker" has back problems which prevented him from bending down and picking up his dog?
> 
> Anybody know if this isn't the first confrontation the "kicker" has had with his leashed small dog and an overly excited puppy?
> 
> Assuming only reinforces weak arguments.



Or the little dog might have been one of those dogs who hates to be picked up or it causes the dog pain to be picked so it bites.

There's no telling what the reason was. He shouldn't have had to pick him dog either way. 

I have large dogs, I certainly cannot pick them up if an aggressive dog comes at us. You can bet I will kick at any dog who comes rushing up at me. It's my job to protect my dogs. It's the other owner's job to keep their dog leashed.

(by the way, I am agreeing with you Tennyson)


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

Or perhaps anyone know that the man could just be plain out dangerous to society and he gets his jollies by kicking dogs?

I believe everyone here has told the op to keep her dog on a leash around strangers, if for anything to protect herself and her own dog from strangers.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

From what I read, good recall or not, you should never have your dog off leash. No questions asked because someone could be fearful or have a dog that's fearful or agressive. So it doesn't matter if your dog has good recall. Unless you are on your property keep your dog leashed.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Wyatt's mommy said:


> True! But it was an option. Which one would you have chosen? Everyone should have the right to protect themselves and their dogs, however the kick could had been avoided JMHO.



My mom had back surgery 6 months ago. She's not allowed per doctor's orders to pick up anything over 10 lbs. She would have chosen to kick the dog rather than trying to pick her's up. See, we just can't assume what the guy SHOULD have done. What the golden owner SHOULDA, COULDA and WOULDA best done was keep her dog leashed in the first place.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

I keep Luke leashed, but the guy was a jerk for kicking a nine month old golden retriever.


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

I have an 18 month old golden who loves every dog and every human he has met. However, he can be impulsive and out of control at times, thus is always leashed when not in our yard. If he took off to say "hello" to someone with a small dog and was out of my control, I wouldn't blame the other person if they used force to make him leave them alone. He can be obnoxious, and it is my responsibility to keep him under my control.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

OP, I"m sorry you had this encounter today and I hope your puppy is physically and emotionally OK. Do you think it worthwhile to get her checked out by a vet?

I have an 8 month old and while he is a very obedient boy, I would never trust him off lead at all, just because he's still such a young dog, his recall isn't proven to me yet, and they do some very unpredictable things. 

Is she spayed already? If not, you really do need to be super careful as well, to prevent a pregnancy. 

I've been knocked to the ground by a dog off leash early in the morning. Personally, I would not want my dog to be the culprit of someone being injured or physically in pain because of my dog's actions. Had I been injured I would have contacted the police to file a report and complaint and expected the owner to reimburse my treatment costs, through their own pocket or through their liability insurance coverage. 

I now have a visually impaired dog who is leash reactive so I am extra cautious and will protect him with whatever means available, just as I will our puppy. I'm trying my hardest to make our puppy's formative year as pleasant as possible for his overall emotional well-being and an unwanted encounter with a stray or loose dogs is not what I want to see.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Oh my! That's terrible! I'm so sorry you had such a bad experience! So, you were in non-compliance of the leash law. However, you did the best you could do to respond and correct the situation.

About 10 years ago when I had Coal, he got loose from my grip somehow and an old man came up grumpily said "Call him off!" Of course I did and quickly grabbed his leash as the last thing I wanted was for him to get into trouble. He didn't kick him, but I was sad he didn't like dogs or he might have been afraid. After all, Coal did have the appearance of a wolf.


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## CrazyZane (Jan 28, 2013)

Cailín's mom said:


> Should I have done something differently?


, really. How about keeping your dog leashed if you're out in public and not in a leash free dog park. That guy didn't know your dog from a hole in the wall. If you would've had her leashed she never would've been in that position to be kicked.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

I think we've piled on the OP enough and she and everyone else has gotten the message.


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## CrazyZane (Jan 28, 2013)

Tayla's Mom said:


> I think we've piled on the OP enough and she and everyone else has gotten the message.


I'm free to make a comment just like you did.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

I didn't say you weren't. People are just getting a little nasty and I feel bad for her. She has acknowledged she was wrong and has learned her lesson. I see many things degrade in several forums and it makes new people feel so bad they don't come back. That's a shame. I'd hate to see that happen here.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Mirinde said:


> Was it a hard, actual kick... or was it an attempt to deter your dog with his foot? This is probably not going to be well received, but I would absolutely not second guess using my body to intervene with an off leash dog running directly at us, especially if they are not responding to owner recall. I would never _kick_ a playful puppy, but I wouldn't hesitate to hook my foot under their chest or side and gently turn them away in an emergency situation, especially if my hands are busy restraining my own dog. A gentle foot jab from me and some form of restraint is going to be a hell of a lot safer for that dog than if my dog were to react defensively/aggressively, and I will not let an off leash dog ruin months of reactivity training work in a designated on leash area or let my dog ruin a young puppy's experience with another dog. My dog needs to know that I will step in and protect him when another dog is not respecting his signals, so that he doesn't have to make a dangerous choice by himself.
> 
> If this was a small dog, the guy should have totally just picked up his dog, but take this as a valuable lesson. Your puppy has just proven to you that A.) her recall is not reliable and B.) she needs further understanding of warning signals from other dogs, especially adults. Next time it might not be a small dog, and next time it might be a dog that is not friendly.
> 
> Glad everyone is okay though


Actually, I am quite protective of Mercy not being bit by other dogs. I want her to be completely dog friendly and not have any negative encounters with other dogs. With that being said, if someone's dog even a pit-bull approaches Mercy and the owner is right behind it making every effort to call it off or grab it, and the dog does not appear to be aggressive, I will give him/her a chance to get his dog first. If it were a stray, I might be more nervous. Also if a dog comes running growling and barking with teeth bared, yes I will do everything I can even kick it if necessary if it were about to tear into my dog.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Titan1 said:


> This is from other side of things... when we were on our way to CA and we stopped for the night at a motel. Titan and I were headed up to our room for the last time of the night and a small dog came around the corner and was coming straight at us.. I could not afford to have him bite at Titan right before a huge event and there was no way I was putting my hand down there to stop the dog. I put my foot out to block the dog because he was on a mission.. I did not kick at the dog.. but I kept my foot between him and Titan. A lady comes barreling about the corner and screaming at me not to kick her dog... After she grabbed the little dog I put Titan in the room and tried to explain I was not kicking her dog and did she realize how dangerous that was to let him loose on a second floor.. While Titan is the most laid back dog he was not happy when another dog was charging up to us.. I can't blame the guy for putting his foot out.. sometimes your brain does not respond quite as fast and your only thought is to keep them apart.. and there would be no way I would put my hand down to grab anyone else's dog. I am not going to get bit.. Crazy things happen in the heat of the moment..


Just the other day I was walking Mercy and a Chihauaua/Min Pin mix was loose with the owner not far behind. Of course he was barking at Mercy trying to strut his stuff and his owner jokingly told his dog to watch out or "the big dog" will eat you. While I don't agree with people having their dogs off leash and it gets annoying believe me, I still just smile and walk on with Mercy, telling her to "Leave it!" Most of the dogs off leash, but under supervision in my neighborhood are small dogs, yet it certainly doesn't make it okay for them to be off leash. A poodle mix was barking at the heels of my husband while riding his scooter about 5 years ago, but I was not far behind with Coal, my black dog and when the dog saw Coal approaching he took off! LOL!


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

CStrong73 said:


> There's a woman who I work with who comes into the office sometimes. She's owned a Golden in the past. Intellectually, she knows that Rocket is a big goofy pup and not aggressive. She knows the breed.
> 
> BUT....she was attacked out of the blue by a dog recently. Was bitten badly enough to need stitches. She was completely traumatized by it. She knows this, knows she shouldn't generalize to all dogs, but she can't help herself.
> 
> ...


I can certainly understand in this case!


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

CStrong73 said:


> Nope, she definitely won't own a dog. The one who attacked her was a dog that her son had gotten recently from a shelter. She stopped at their house and came in and was chatting with her daughter in law, grandkids right there. The dog went from standing there, to lunging and taking a chunk out of her leg for absolutely no reason.
> 
> If I didn't know her and know why she was so scared, I'd think she was nuts for being afraid of Rocket. Knowing her past, I can't blame her at all. When I do bring Rocket to the office (which is pretty rare), I keep the front door locked so that I will see her and be able to leash up beforre she comes in. Then there's the mail lady and UPS man who LOVE Rocket and come with treats in their pockets.


With both Coal and Mercy I have and still do pull Mercy over to me when people are coming, since I know how funny people are. If people bend down and call Mercy over, I happily let her come up to them as long as she sits for them.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

diane0905 said:


> I keep Luke leashed, but the guy was a jerk for kicking a nine month old golden retriever.


Wow! Your dog's a beauty! That's probably what Mercy will look like in a couple of months. What's his/her pedigree?


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

MercyMom said:


> Wow! Your dog's a beauty! That's probably what Mercy will look like in a couple of months. What's his/her pedigree?


Thank you! I don't show Luke, so I'm not sure exactly what you are asking? His parents were show dogs. Well, his dad still is but the mom is now a therapy dog. His full name is Sunkyst Cool Hand Luke. His Sire is Champion Faera's BMOC "Davis" and his Dam is Lakesyde Winter Wonderland "Flurry". 

If that doesn't answer your question, my apologies for being clueless. :

Edit: Ahhhh. I just clicked on your link. I have a hard copy of his lineage and he's AKC registered, but I don't have a link to the information. 


Shoot, the other day my ticker had a glitch and put the golden retriever image back to the beginning. It has his age correct beneath it. Strange.


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## Cailín's mom (Nov 18, 2012)

It is a leash free park although obviously one is supposed to have control of their dogs, which in this moment I did not. 
As I mentioned, the man was not panicked and the dog, other than being a bit peeved, was not upset. Cailín said hello initially, ran around the two of them, ran back to me and then back up to the man and dog. It was at this point that he kicked her. I had apologised as she reached him and was very close when he kicked her. This happened in a few seconds but it was not the frenzy that is being portrayed by a few posters. She was excited, in a running back and forth way but absolutely not jumping or bounding.
I am not defending the fact that she was off leash when I did not have complete control but I came on to genuinely inquire what I should have done differently. Thank you so much again for the constructive comments, I have learned a great deal. 
As I said it is a leash free park and cailín is my first dog. I am the first to admitt I am not a perfect dog owner, as I am not a perfect mother or a perfect human being (I'm so jealous of those who are!) but I do strive to do the best I can for my children and dog while respecting those around us. 
Unfortunately it is practically impossible for me to take her to puppy school at the moment, as much as I would love to due to personal circumstances so I will try to arrange other methods of socialisation.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Obedience classes are out of our pocketbook right now, so we're trying different things at home and out in public to work on. It's not the same as formal training, but its better than nothing. I am glad your pup is ok. 

Hopefully there will be hundreds of more enjoyable moments at that park. 


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## Katduf (Mar 10, 2013)

It was an off leash park. Some of these comments are pretty harsh. People know when they're in an off leash area, and if they are scared of other dogs then they should choose an alternate location. An off leash area is always risky, but there is no excuse for violence towards a dog that is not showing aggression, especially when the owner is a mere few feet away. Bear was punched on the head by a big fat guy on the off leash beach because he didn't want a big dog around his little dogs (bear was 7 months old). The guy was also with his wife. They did not feel threatened, they just didn't like big dogs, and told me so. I told him I didn't like fat guys with ugly wives on the beach. 


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Cailín's mom said:


> It is a leash free park although obviously one is supposed to have control of their dogs, which in this moment I did not.
> As I mentioned, the man was not panicked and the dog, other than being a bit peeved, was not upset. Cailín said hello initially, ran around the two of them, ran back to me and then back up to the man and dog. It was at this point that he kicked her. I had apologised as she reached him and was very close when he kicked her. This happened in a few seconds but it was not the frenzy that is being portrayed by a few posters. She was excited, in a running back and forth way but absolutely not jumping or bounding.
> I am not defending the fact that she was off leash when I did not have complete control but I came on to genuinely inquire what I should have done differently. Thank you so much again for the constructive comments, I have learned a great deal.
> As I said it is a leash free park and cailín is my first dog. I am the first to admitt I am not a perfect dog owner, as I am not a perfect mother or a perfect human being (I'm so jealous of those who are!) but I do strive to do the best I can for my children and dog while respecting those around us.
> Unfortunately it is practically impossible for me to take her to puppy school at the moment, as much as I would love to due to personal circumstances so I will try to arrange other methods of socialisation.


 
That's quite all right dear! You did what you could to regain control and you learned how to deal with it better next time.


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## jacksilas (May 26, 2013)

Okay, so reading through this thread, I am thinking. Okay, so the OP made a mistake (and has admitted it several times) and will be returning to long leash.

Who hasn't made one??? Or a million. Often with drastic results (I will spare everyone the story of my biggest dog-momma mistake). 

While I agree with people having their dogs under control, I also agree that people who are afraid should be mindful of off-leash areas.

That being said, jerks abound. My father's neighbour once told me, as I stood outside with my dog, that he carries a knife with him and won't hesitate to use it if a dog runs up to him when he is out on his bike. He is terrified of dogs and is an over-the-top idiot in my opinion. I immediately became worried should I ever have my dog off-leash near him. I can't even imagine.

I am glad that your dog was not too traumatized by this kicking event!!!!!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Off leash park with written rules posted? That guy should realize dogs are going to rush him. Personally, I would rethink dog parks for socialization instead of classes....too many unwanted behaviors can be learned. At a minimum, you need to do recall exercises. I would suggest a protected area with just you and your pup, maybe an unused tennis court? Bring bungee cords to secure gates, and high value treats. a group class is really the best way to learn proper obedience and create a closer bond between you and your pup. If you cannot find the time, think about a trainer who can come to your home.

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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

I am sorry when people are harsh. I've had it happen to me a few times and it is hurtful and there is no reason for it. You can get your point across in a much nicer way. I hope you will continue posting and asking questions. It's how we learn. No one is perfect and neither is anyone's dog.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

Dallas Gold said:


> Off leash park with written rules posted? That guy should realize dogs are going to rush him. Personally, I would rethink dog parks for socialization instead of classes....too many unwanted behaviors can be learned. At a minimum, you need to do recall exercises. I would suggest a protected area with just you and your pup, maybe an unused tennis court? Bring bungee cords to secure gates, and high value treats. a group class is really the best way to learn proper obedience and create a closer bond between you and your pup. If you cannot find the time, think about a trainer who can come to your home.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Time may not be the problem, finances may be. Some good classes are expensive depending on your area. My issue with Tayla is that she gets easily frustrated in classes with lots going on around her. She passed her STAR puppy class, but that is the only group class we completed. We tried other puppy classes and she was a mess. We have done several Nose Work classes where it is one on one and she is great. Lots of dogs and confusion bother her so we are doing obedience at home. I like others have put in a lot of time. She is good on sit, down, sit/stay and down/stay for up to 2 minutes. We work on lots of different commands. It can be done at home, but at some point a formal class or one on one instruction in more valuable especially for you. Just find a great trainer.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

Cailín's mom said:


> It is a leash free park although obviously one is supposed to have control of their dogs, which in this moment I did not.
> As I mentioned, the man was not panicked and the dog, other than being a bit peeved, was not upset. Cailín said hello initially, ran around the two of them, ran back to me and then back up to the man and dog. It was at this point that he kicked her. I had apologised as she reached him and was very close when he kicked her. This happened in a few seconds but it was not the frenzy that is being portrayed by a few posters. She was excited, in a running back and forth way but absolutely not jumping or bounding.
> I am not defending the fact that she was off leash when I did not have complete control but I came on to genuinely inquire what I should have done differently. Thank you so much again for the constructive comments, I have learned a great deal.
> As I said it is a leash free park and cailín is my first dog. I am the first to admitt I am not a perfect dog owner, as I am not a perfect mother or a perfect human being (I'm so jealous of those who are!) but I do strive to do the best I can for my children and dog while respecting those around us.
> Unfortunately it is practically impossible for me to take her to puppy school at the moment, as much as I would love to due to personal circumstances so I will try to arrange other methods of socialisation.


You're doing just fine I'm sure. I take Luke off leash if it's an off leash area. Our favorite place is at Kiawah Island on the beach and other dogs are off leash. They all run up to each other in a playful manner. I assume (hope) when I see a big dog bounding towards us he or she is friendly and the owners know their dogs well enough to know if they should be off leash or not. I certainly don't think about kicking a dog that's running up to us. 

I think it was especially out of line if you were right there near the man and his dog. If he had kicked my dog, I doubt I would have been very civil to him.

I also don't think puppy school is absolutely necessary. If you can find some spare time each day (I know sometimes easier said than done -- maybe spread it out in a couple or few 10 minute periods -- you can teach Cailin yourself.

And don't be jealous of perfect people -- there's no such thing and the one's who are close can't be having too much fun. :--happy:


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## CrazyZane (Jan 28, 2013)

Katduf said:


> It was an off leash park. Some of these comments are pretty harsh.


If you read her first post she never said she was in a off-leash park. Most of the harsh comments were posted before her recent post.



Cailín's mom said:


> _*I was in the park across the road from my house today with my 3 yr old and 1.5 yr old children. They were playing on the swings and I was throwing a ball for cailín while staying close to them. I saw a man approach along the path*_





I personally don't know of any dog parks that have swings for kids and most have an age limit for children to enter. And every park I've been too for children (jungle jims, swings, monkey bars etc.) do not allow dogs in.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Cailín's mom said:


> It is a leash free park although obviously one is supposed to have control of their dogs, which in this moment I did not.
> As I mentioned, the man was not panicked and the dog, other than being a bit peeved, was not upset. *Cailín said hello initially, ran around the two of them, ran back to me and then back up to the man and dog.* It was at this point that he kicked her. I had apologised as she reached him and was very close when he kicked her.


This wasn't mentioned in the first post, either - it wasn't until several pages of comments later. 

People tend to respond without reading all the posts in between at times - I know I'm guilty of that - and they get riled up about stuff. Not necessarily piling on, here, just reacting to the initial description of the event.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Cailín's mom said:


> It is a leash free park although obviously one is supposed to have control of their dogs, which in this moment I did not.
> As I mentioned, the man was not panicked and the dog, other than being a bit peeved, was not upset. Cailín said hello initially, ran around the two of them, ran back to me and then back up to the man and dog. It was at this point that he kicked her. I had apologised as she reached him and was very close when he kicked her. This happened in a few seconds but it was not the frenzy that is being portrayed by a few posters. She was excited, in a running back and forth way but absolutely not jumping or bounding.
> I am not defending the fact that she was off leash when I did not have complete control but I came on to genuinely inquire what I should have done differently. Thank you so much again for the constructive comments, I have learned a great deal.
> As I said it is a leash free park and cailín is my first dog. I am the first to admitt I am not a perfect dog owner, as I am not a perfect mother or a perfect human being (I'm so jealous of those who are!) but I do strive to do the best I can for my children and dog while respecting those around us.
> Unfortunately it is practically impossible for me to take her to puppy school at the moment, as much as I would love to due to personal circumstances so I will try to arrange other methods of socialisation.


Being a leash free park puts a whole different spin on things. I did not see that originally. 

By the way, there is no such thing as the perfect mother, the perfect child or the perfect dog - so don't be so hard on yourself.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

RichsRetriever said:


> I personally don't know of any dog parks that have swings for kids and most have an age limit for children to enter. And every park I've been too for children (jungle jims, swings, monkey bars etc.) do not allow dogs in.


Different areas of the nation different rules I have never heard of a park that had age limits for children LOL! We have 2 parks where we can take Wyatt off leash and all have playgrounds for the children. All they require you to do is pick up the poop


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

diane0905 said:


> I also don't think puppy school is absolutely necessary. If you can find some spare time each day (I know sometimes easier said than done -- maybe spread it out in a couple or few 10 minute periods -- you can teach Cailin yourself.


Wyatt has never been to a class. We learned so much from our first golden that we knew that we could train him ourselves.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

OP didn't say off leash *dog* park. She said off leash park. We have a couple parks where you are not required to have your dog on a leash and yes there is equipment for kids to play on. Iffy places in my opinion because they are not fenced in and unless you have perfect control dogs can run in the street, but they do exist.


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## CStrong73 (Jun 11, 2012)

Being in an off-leash park certainly does put a different spin on it. 

I, too, am surprised though that an off-leash park is also a childrens' playground. Where I live, the only off-leash areas are specifically dog parks...usually just a fenced in grassy enclosure. They are key card entry, and to get a key card you have to prove residency and up to date vaccinations. Children must be 5 years old to enter. Any playground equipment is separate from the dog park area.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Tayla's Mom said:


> Time may not be the problem, finances may be. Some good classes are expensive depending on your area. My issue with Tayla is that she gets easily frustrated in classes with lots going on around her. She passed her STAR puppy class, but that is the only group class we completed. We tried other puppy classes and she was a mess. We have done several Nose Work classes where it is one on one and she is great. Lots of dogs and confusion bother her so we are doing obedience at home. I like others have put in a lot of time. She is good on sit, down, sit/stay and down/stay for up to 2 minutes. We work on lots of different commands. It can be done at home, but at some point a formal class or one on one instruction in more valuable especially for you. Just find a great trainer.


The following sentence in the OP's original post was the reason I suggest a dog training class:



> *I am a new dog owner* and with her and my two children it is sometimes a little manic when we are out.


It would be a rare person who can train their first dog without the benefit of some sort of training and feedback from someone who is experienced in training. 

Yes, training can be expensive; however, I feel it's a necessity for first time dog owners, unless they are born dog whisperers. Petsmarts in my area are about $100. The trainer we used, with only 8 in class, was $100. I'd been through several classes with my previous dogs and I have a pretty good idea on training and socialization of my pup, but I feel you just cannot beat the bonding that occurs between a dog and an owner if you are in the right class that encourages the dog and builds their confidence. If you own dog was a mess in class, perhaps it wasn't the right class for you. I've also been in a few of those and we ended up finding another alternative based on that dog's individual needs.

I would beg, borrow and steal for money for dog training classes, especially if building skills such as good recall will prevent my dog from having an encounter with an angry physical stranger or running out in traffic and being hit by a car. 

Just my perspective, realizing everyone will do what they want to do.


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## caroline162 (Jun 11, 2013)

laprincessa said:


> This wasn't mentioned in the first post, either - it wasn't until several pages of comments later.
> 
> People tend to respond without reading all the posts in between at times - I know I'm guilty of that - and they get riled up about stuff. Not necessarily piling on, here, just reacting to the initial description of the event.


Having recently been jumped all over for my first post in this forum, I think it would be wise for people to ask clarifying questions before making assumptions and jumping all over someone - especially a new member. It can be really off-putting, when I have since learned that the vast majority of people on GRF are actually fantastic nice people


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Cailín's mom said:


> It is a leash free park although obviously one is supposed to have control of their dogs, which in this moment I did not.
> As I mentioned, the man was not panicked and the dog, other than being a bit peeved, was not upset. Cailín said hello initially, ran around the two of them, ran back to me and then back up to the man and dog. It was at this point that he kicked her. I had apologised as she reached him and was very close when he kicked her. This happened in a few seconds but it was not the frenzy that is being portrayed by a few posters. She was excited, in a running back and forth way but absolutely not jumping or bounding.
> I am not defending the fact that she was off leash when I did not have complete control but I came on to genuinely inquire what I should have done differently. Thank you so much again for the constructive comments, I have learned a great deal.
> As I said it is a leash free park and cailín is my first dog. I am the first to admitt I am not a perfect dog owner, as I am not a perfect mother or a perfect human being (I'm so jealous of those who are!) but I do strive to do the best I can for my children and dog while respecting those around us.
> Unfortunately it is practically impossible for me to take her to puppy school at the moment, as much as I would love to due to personal circumstances so I will try to arrange other methods of socialisation.


You know, I got the impression that the park was probably off leash in the beginning, or she probably would not have had her dog off lead. That's why before I changed my post that I said that she did the right thing.


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## alphadude (Jan 15, 2010)

He would have visited the ER with at minimum, a broken nose if he kicked my puppy under those circumstances.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

CStrong73 said:


> Being in an off-leash park certainly does put a different spin on it.
> 
> I, too, am surprised though that an off-leash park is also a childrens' playground. Where I live, the only off-leash areas are specifically dog parks...usually just a fenced in grassy enclosure. They are key card entry, and to get a key card you have to prove residency and up to date vaccinations. Children must be 5 years old to enter. Any playground equipment is separate from the dog park area.


Where I am we have dog parks (fenced in for dogs, no kids under the age of X allowed, also no leashed dogs allowed!) We also have public parks with playground equipment and picnic areas and soccer fields plus grassy areas away from the other areas with signs designating it as a "voice control" area.
Many people do use the area to train their dogs or to just let them run. I wouldn't with Kenzie since I know she'd go directly to the food or the soccer game!


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

K9-Design said:


> Whoa, whoa, whoa. You had an off-leash, out of control dog who totally ignored you and bulldozed this guy and his small dog, who could easily be injured. And you're mad at HIM for defending himself?


Are you joking? Maybe one day your dog will be offleash and fail to recall and some guy will be kind enough to kick and then stand on your dog. There isn't a dog owner on this board who hasn't had their dog off leash at some point... and I doubt ANYBODY would stand for their animal being hit or treated in this manner on this board. 

This is a ridiculous, inflammatory and ignorant post that served very little purpose other than making someone feel like her dog deserved that type of treatment.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

This is a tricky situation. My first thought is that at a legal off leash area, the guy had no right to kick your dog. But if the guy truly thought your dog had bit his dog, then if I had been in his shoes, I may have kicked. Picking up his dog would had been a bad idea since that often causes the larger dog to get more excited and jump up on the human to get at the smaller dog.

My take away is that sometimes you run into jerks. My solution would be to train, train, train to protect your girl!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Braccarius said:


> Are you joking? Maybe one day your dog will be offleash and fail to recall and some guy will be kind enough to kick and then stand on your dog. There isn't a dog owner on this board who hasn't had their dog off leash at some point... and I doubt ANYBODY would stand for their animal being hit or treated in this manner on this board.
> 
> This is a ridiculous, inflammatory and ignorant post that served very little purpose other than making someone feel like her dog deserved that type of treatment.


Nope, not joking, and 10,000 Elvis fans can't be wrong.
Temp banned?


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## Rob's GRs (Feb 25, 2007)

K9-Design said:


> Temp banned?


As per rule number 15 any actions taken by the GRF moderator team are done as a group and is not discussed on the forum. Thanks

15. GoldenRetrieverForum.com Members are prohibited in posting the following types of threads:*Due to the nature of certain threads, and the outcome that usually follows certain threads, we do NOT allow the following types of threads; “I am leaving this board”, “I am taking a break from this board”, ”what happen to this member?”, additionally, any discussions or threads about a member's warning or banning are prohibited. All of these types of threads cause more issues, and many times more drama on the board. All actions taken upon a GRF board member is strictly between that member and the GRF Forum Management Team. Any kind of the previously mentioned threads will be closed and/or deleted. If a member persists in continuing to create such types of threads, the GRF Forum Management Team will take action against the member that may include temporary and/or permanent suspension of a member's account.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

For me the point is our dogs pay for every decision we make. There is no way to predict that every person we run into is going to be a kind, gentle and loving person under all conditions. Cailin's mom was trying to watch two toddlers and an off leash 9 month old golden without a spot on recall. It was a recipe for disaster. Whether the small dog owner was just nasty or truly felt threatened if Cailin was under the control of her owner this would not have happened.

No one here ever wants to see any dog harmed. I am my dogs protector so I would protect my dog to what ever level I need to in each given moment. I think many are just saying the same thing.

I do hope that Cailin is okay both physically and mentally after going through this.


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## CrazyZane (Jan 28, 2013)

Tayla's Mom said:


> OP didn't say off leash *dog* park. She said off leash park. We have a couple parks where you are not required to have your dog on a leash and yes there is equipment for kids to play on. Iffy places in my opinion because they are not fenced in and unless you have perfect control dogs can run in the street, but they do exist.


If that's the case then yes the guy should not have kicked her dog. Being in an off-leash park you should expect another dog to come up to say hi.




I don't know what city you live in but I'm in on the border of Oviedo and Winter Springs and dogs are not allowed in any park except a dog park. 

Oviedo:_*
-It is unlawful to allow any pet or domestic animal, as defined in F.S. §§ 585.001 and 823.041, under a person's care, custody or control into any city park, except the designated city dog park.*_

Winter Springs:
_*-No pets are allowed in any City Park (excluding service animals) with the exception of the Winter Springs Dog Park. (Sec. 17-107)*_



I've never heard of a park allowing dogs to roam free off-leash while kids play in the same park. Sounds like a plan for disaster to me. Glad we don't have parks like that where I live.


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## JLC44 (Jun 18, 2013)

As I was reading through this thread I have been thinking I would have done whatever it takes to keep the off leash dog away. Some background to understand my point of view. I am also a new, first time dog owner, so behavior and body language are things I am learning, but in the moment I may not process more than off leash dog running toward us. Camaro is our son's service dog, so if anything happens to him our ability to do stuff becomes limited. See this story An Off Leash Dog Ruined My Life: A Service Dog’s Story | notes from a dog walker 
Alabama has not yet passed the law some other states have protecting SD's and providing restitution in the event they are injured or unable to continue working, so I will always error on the side of protecting him.

However after the OP clarified that it was a park that allows dogs to be off leash changes things for me. We will not knowingly take him places where off leash is allowed, it is just too big a risk. 

Just wanted to add a different perspective. Sorry this happened but glad that all appears well.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

RichsRetriever said:


> If that's the case then yes the guy should not have kicked her dog. Being in an off-leash park you should expect another dog to come up to say hi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're kidding. You can't even have leashed dogs in your city parks. That's a shame. I'm in Clearwater and all our city parks in the area allow dogs. We have walking trails through our parks that allow them. People are always walking their dogs in the parks. I even do tracking with Tayla in one of our city parks. I thought Orlando was more dog friendly than that. We even have beaches over here when they can go unleashed.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

I never look at these situations as being about who/what is right or wrong. I look at these things only as issues of foreseeability.

For instance, is it reasonably foreseeable that my off leash dog might run up on someone else who doesn't react well, and might harm my dog? Why yes, I think that's foreseeable, even though my dog is a total sweetie pie and has the right to be off-leash. Other people know nothing about my dog, my dog doesn't know human etiquette, and his exuberance can be mistaken for aggression.

So, because I can foresee the possibility of something bad happening in that situation (and I'm sure I have greater foresight than a new dog owner like the OP), I keep my dog on a lead. It doesn't matter whether or not I have the _right_ to have my dog off-leash. If it looks foreseeable to me that something bad could happen, I avoid it, no matter what is allowed in the park.

Some folks think I'm overly cautious. Maybe I am. But I'm a natural thinker, and my brain is always playing out possibilities. If one of those possibilities seems like it actually could happen and would be bad for my dog, I take precautions even when others might not. That's just me. If a man kicked my dog and hurt him, I would blame _myself_ if I could have foreseen the possibility and failed to protect my dog from it. I frankly don't care about the man and his dog, or who did what right or wrong. I only care about keeping my dog safe.

Am I the only one who thinks like this??? I didn't see anything like that in 10 pages (though I did skim over some of the posts).

___________________

*GIBBS at 6 mos.*


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

"Am I the only one who thinks like this??? I didn't see anything like that in 10 pages (though I did skim over some of the posts)."

No you are not the only one.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

I always think about differnet scenarios or about what could happen or the what ifs.

It's also because I have made a lot of mistakes in my younger days and I have learned from them.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

No, I see disaster around every corner so I'm always overly cautious about my approach to dog care. None of mine have ever been allowed off lead in a place where where is no fencing. I don't frequent dog parks because I see a disaster waiting to happen. But we all have to learn someplace and if the lessons aren't too painful for those involved then it's a good learning experience. We ALL have them.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

JLC44 said:


> As I was reading through this thread I have been thinking I would have done whatever it takes to keep the off leash dog away. Some background to understand my point of view. I am also a new, first time dog owner, so behavior and body language are things I am learning, but in the moment I may not process more than off leash dog running toward us. Camaro is our son's service dog, so if anything happens to him our ability to do stuff becomes limited. See this story An Off Leash Dog Ruined My Life: A Service Dog’s Story | notes from a dog walker
> Alabama has not yet passed the law some other states have protecting SD's and providing restitution in the event they are injured or unable to continue working, so I will always error on the side of protecting him.
> 
> However after the OP clarified that it was a park that allows dogs to be off leash changes things for me. We will not knowingly take him places where off leash is allowed, it is just too big a risk.
> ...


Read the story you posted the link to, so very sad.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Tayla's Mom said:


> No, I see disaster around every corner so I'm always overly cautious about my approach to dog care. ... I don't frequent dog parks because I see a disaster waiting to happen.


Me, too. I'm just like that. I've really only taken my dogs to one dog park that was in a super upscale gated community, where it was 100% safe. We even had a forum meet-up there.  Here's a pic of it taken by Max's Dad (and that's Max running toward him  ).










But that's the only dog park I'll go to because I see disaster everywhere. Where I live now, even though it's an upscale area, there have been incidents at the local dog park, so I absolutely will not take my dogs there.

Sorry for the hijack. :hijacked: We now return you to your regular programming, already in progress.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

Looks like you had a "Golden" time.


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## dezymond (May 3, 2012)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> Read the story you posted the link to, so very sad.


Just read it myself.

So sad that all that hard work was out the window in a short 30sec encounter. I just can't imagine how much worse the consequences would've been had the service dog reacted in a way to protect itself.


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## olliversmom (Mar 13, 2013)

From a pet sitter's perspective: I have had numerous encounters with: dogs off leash in parks, dogs just running free outside, pushing house doors open, etc. It is my job and responsibility as a pet sitter to protect my charge. I take that seriously as not only my job, but as an animal lover. I could be sued, lose my business, lose my insurance but more importantly, I could have something hurtful happen to one of my clients, who are all like my own babies. I would never forgive myself.
I have put little dogs on my head to keep them from getting bit while pushing off 
jumping dogs with my feet, I have put myself in between the growling, unknown dog and my clients 100 pound dog that I could not lift, I have popped a dog over a fence and held on the leash from the other side as a big snarly dog came out of nowhere and was straight for the little guy I was walking. Have not had to use the pepper spray yet thank Goodness. 
From an owners perspective: when you have a dog that is attacked, that dog will many times begin to show signs of aggression themselves. And when the once placid owner walks their once placid dog and maybe they tense up at a new possible encounter, their dog senses that and will exhibit fear aggression. And so it escalates to where you have aggression problems with your own once mild mannered Rover. 
I have seen it over and over and it takes a good deal of training and work to fix.
Once my gentle 100 lb. Golden Homer was lunged at by a 10 lb Shitsu. Both dogs were on lead. The Shitsu got my leg instead. Thank God I had Homer on a leash as my gentle giant was prepared to ingest that little pup for drawing blood on me. And Homeboy was never the same again after that, whenever we encountered small dogs. If he was not on lead, and he saw my blood, no knowing what that gentle dog might have done to protect me.
I am always looking out for possible dangerous scenarios.


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## FeatherRiverSam (Aug 7, 2009)

JLC44 said:


> As I was reading through this thread I have been thinking I would have done whatever it takes to keep the off leash dog away. Some background to understand my point of view. I am also a new, first time dog owner, so behavior and body language are things I am learning, but in the moment I may not process more than off leash dog running toward us. Camaro is our son's service dog, so if anything happens to him our ability to do stuff becomes limited. See this story An Off Leash Dog Ruined My Life: A Service Dog’s Story | notes from a dog walker
> Alabama has not yet passed the law some other states have protecting SD's and providing restitution in the event they are injured or unable to continue working, so I will always error on the side of protecting him.
> 
> However after the OP clarified that it was a park that allows dogs to be off leash changes things for me. We will not knowingly take him places where off leash is allowed, it is just too big a risk.
> ...


Thank you for posting this!!! I think this should be required reading for every dog owner regardless of how many dogs they've owned. A leash required area should be just that...leash required. Truely a sad story. And the thing is it's not only the "my dog is friendly aggressive dog" that can cause serious problems...that truely friendly goofball of yours, believe it or not, is just as capable as being a serrious threat to other people as well as to other dogs. 

An example....an 85 year old lady is walking her dog on a retractable lead in a leash only neighborhood...she's been doing this same walk for years...never had a problem. One day as she's walking her dog a new neighbor with a really friendly golden is walking her dog off lead...because he's really friendly...her dog sees the older lady's dog and runs over to say hi in a totally friendly manor. Unfortunately the dog on the retractable lead runs around behind this older lady, all in play, but she's not able to unwrap herself from the lead and down she goes...she suffers a broken hip.

This never should have happened...had the lady with the golden been following the rules and had her dog on lead...no broken hip.

People need to realize leash only area's should be just that leash only no matter how friendly your dog is. There are other people relying on the fact that these rules are followed.

Sorry for the rant...

Pete & Woody


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

This happened in Fort Worth and was reported tonight on the news. Never underestimate the rage in people against our pets. 

Man Allegedly Kicks Dog To Death Over Apartment Dispute « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth


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## Katduf (Mar 10, 2013)

Dallas Gold said:


> This happened in Fort Worth and was reported tonight on the news. Never underestimate the rage in people against our pets.
> 
> Man Allegedly Kicks Dog To Death Over Apartment Dispute « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth


This makes me feel sick. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

FeatherRiverSam said:


> Thank you for posting this!!! I think this should be required reading for every dog owner regardless of how many dogs they've owned. A leash required area should be just that...leash required. Truely a sad story. And the thing is it's not only the "my dog is friendly aggressive dog" that can cause serious problems...that truely friendly goofball of yours, believe it or not, is just as capable as being a serrious threat to other people as well as to other dogs.
> 
> An example....an 85 year old lady is walking her dog on a retractable lead in a leash only neighborhood...she's been doing this same walk for years...never had a problem. One day as she's walking her dog a new neighbor with a really friendly golden is walking her dog off lead...because he's really friendly...her dog sees the older lady's dog and runs over to say hi in a totally friendly manor. Unfortunately the dog on the retractable lead runs around behind this older lady, all in play, but she's not able to unwrap herself from the lead and down she goes...she suffers a broken hip.
> 
> ...


While not the point of your story, the retractable leash is a bad piece of equipment. A fall could have happened without the other dog, having your dog run by you can cause a nasty rope burn (happened to a friend) and people who don't pay attention can have the leash out all the way and the same thing as having an off leash dog can happen. I've been accosted a few times that way.


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## CrazyZane (Jan 28, 2013)

Dallas Gold said:


> This happened in Fort Worth and was reported tonight on the news. Never underestimate the rage in people against our pets.
> 
> Man Allegedly Kicks Dog To Death Over Apartment Dispute « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth



That's sad but that's a completely different situation that what the OP was in.


EDIT: Just because _your _Golden might be friendly doesn't mean they are all. It's a little late to start kicking the Golden once it's latched onto the smaller dogs neck whipping it around like a rag doll. Not saying the OPs Golden would have done that but that guy didn't know the OPs dog from a hole in the wall.

Here's some attacks by Goldens: https://www.google.com/search?q=gol...n.2,or.r_qf.&cad=b&sei=Y1zCUcDPEZbd4APdl4DIAg


N'ite. :wave:


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Dallas Gold said:


> This happened in Fort Worth and was reported tonight on the news. Never underestimate the rage in people against our pets.
> 
> Man Allegedly Kicks Dog To Death Over Apartment Dispute « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth


This is an appalling outrage!


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

K9-Design said:


> Nope, not joking, and 10,000 Elvis fans can't be wrong.
> Temp banned?


Thank you... truly.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

RichsRetriever said:


> That's sad but that's a completely different situation that what the OP was in.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Just because _your _Golden might be friendly doesn't mean they are all. It's a little late to start kicking the Golden once it's latched onto the smaller dogs neck whipping it around like a rag doll. Not saying the OPs Golden would have done that but that guy didn't know the OPs dog from a hole in the wall.
> ...


I believe you miss the point of my post- my intent was to point out you can never underestimate the rage in people you encounter on walks or in life- but you are correct, this did not happen to the OP-- but could it happen again? You bet!


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