# level 4 heart murmur



## golden dexter (Oct 14, 2009)

My wife and I are very involved with our local Golden rescue here in Northern California. A beautiful 2 yr old boy just came to the rescue and has a level 4 heart murmur. The rescue said the previous owners surrendered him because of the heart problem. We are thinking about adopting this guy as he would be a great companion for our current 2 yr old boy. Does anyone have information on heart murmurs in goldens? I called our local vet and they said they could live a normal life but might have breathing problems every once in a while. Shorter life expectancies are also probable.

Thank you.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*golden dexter*

Golden Dexter

Maggie's Mom on here has personal experience with heart murmurs.
I will direct her to your topic.
Hope you adopt!


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Has the dog been evaluated by a cardiologist and dopplered? I think I would want to have tests done by a qualified specialist. Murmurs are graded 0-6, so a 4 is a fairly loud and serious murmur. Some dogs at this level live a relatively normal life and do not need medication, but others become symptomatic with age. Keeping these dogs lean is also important as excess weight will place additional strain on their circulatory system.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

If you can find out what is causing the murmur, that would help. There are a few different things that can cause a murmur. My Danny had a level 5 SAS murmur, but his was exacerbated by PDA. Once the PDA was repaired, the SAS dropped to a level 1. So it helps to know totally what you are dealing with so you can see if it's something that you are willing to take on.


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## golden dexter (Oct 14, 2009)

Thank you for your help. We have not met the boy yet, so I don't any details on his tests results. We are going to meet him this weekend. The rescue is worried about him since no one has adopted him yet as he has been there for awhile now.


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## Augie's Mom (Sep 28, 2007)

What the others have said is correct. Proper assessment from a cardiologist is vital. I can understand why some would be reluctant to adopt him.
If you are truly interested in him would the rescue pay to have a cardiologist examine him to determine the cause and grade of the murmur?







golden dexter said:


> Thank you for your help. We have not met the boy yet, so I don't any details on his tests results. We are going to meet him this weekend. The rescue is worried about him since no one has adopted him yet as he has been there for awhile now.


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## golden dexter (Oct 14, 2009)

Im not sure if the rescue would be willing to pay for any tests, but that is a good question to ask when we go look at him. Thank you.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

An echocardiogram will give you a lot of answers that an auscultation just cant.
An echo will cost about $350.00 at a board certified cardiologist.

My concern would be that you have an active energetic 2 year old dog...the possibility of bringing a dog into the home that just cant keep up and having to either- limit the active dog or leave behind the dog that cant keep up.

You could consider the cost of the echo a 'donation' to the rescue should you decide that you personally cant take the dog after getting the results and hearing your options....


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

My tinkerbell has a level 5 heart murmur due to SAS and is on daily heart meds. She's been on the maximum dosage since her echocardiogram at 6 months old. She's now 4.5 years old. The vets & cardiologist can not believe that she is still here and doing so well. Nody expected her to live to be a year old, let alone 4!

She is a bit overweight even at 65 pounds but we haven't been able to get her down any lower. And the vet says it is probably better that she stay at a consistant weight rather than going up and down. Excercise can be a challenge. She is a wonderfully loveable dog but not very active. SHe has her moments, but we don't have to worry about long walks or playing ball for hours. I think now, that we could have worked with her and gradually increased the amount of excercise she got, but at the time we were told not to let her do anything. So we let her do what she wanted and pushed no further. She knows her limits, she has a few dog friends that she lieks to play with, but when she gets tired or feels the need to stop she does, no matter what teh other dogs are doing. I even think that at this point we could get another dog except that Tinkerbell is so spoiled and such a princess, that she would be way to jealous so it wouldn't be fair to her.

And I can honestly say that once we got past her first birthday (which we were told was a huge milestone for a dog with such a severe heart condition) I haven't had a second thought about having her.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Was it a vet who said it was a grade 4? I agree with everyone else about having a board certified cardiologist do a echo on him. MY Cruiser has had a grade 3 heart murmur since he was 8 weeks old. He will be 4 in March and doesnt miss a beat. He is on no meds and no restrictions. He plays all day with my other dogs and if he is really tired he puts himself to bed.We have had a few in our rescue who had grade 4's and lived to be 12. if It was me I would adopt him, they can live happy normal lives.


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## Muddypaws (Apr 20, 2009)

My Sunshine had a level 6 heart murmur with severe SAS. She saw a cardiologist and was on heart meds from age 6 months. They only gave her 3 years, she left us 1 month shy of her 8th birthday.

If you see a cardiologist yearly and keep up the meds. Limit exercise, manage weight and take care of their health you can do miracles. I believe the key for Sunny was limited exercise, we never let her do anything as a young dog/puppy that we would have to "take away" later in life. She did play fetch, swim (not a biggie since she HATED water), she never went upstairs, short walks in only cool weather (never too cold or hot). She was always in air conditioning in the summer. She led a sedate life but she was a very happy dog, she loved to meet people and other dogs and especially cats. We play "house" games and she did chase her far share of ground hogs, rabbits and squirrels.

She was worth every penny and if I knew everything we would go through and had to choose - I would do it all over again. She was a remarkable dog.

See a cardiologist and go from there, if he will need limited exercise and you have a young dog at home it may be hard to monitor the fun, keep that in mind.


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## GinnyinPA (Oct 31, 2010)

My stepdaughter has a german shepherd mix with a serious heart murmur. When she brought him home, she was told he'd be dead in six months. That was about 8 years ago. He can't do a lot - if he overexerts he passes out - but he is a happy dog.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Golden Dexter*

Golden Dexter

Lots of great suggestions and experience shared here.
Please let us know how it goes this weekend when you meet him!!


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I'm praying for this sweetheart. Thank you for considering him. It breaks my heart that his family gave him up just when he needed them most. I'm surprised that rescue isn't addressing his health issues to determine WHAT they're dealing with and the most effective way to help. When you meet him, give him an ear rub from us.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> I'm praying for this sweetheart. Thank you for considering him. It breaks my heart that his family gave him up just when he needed them most. I'm surprised that rescue isn't addressing his health issues to determine WHAT they're dealing with and the most effective way to help. .


I agree... with our rescue if the owners who turned him in and hadnt taken him to have a echo done, then we would be so we determine, what course of action to take.


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## Muddypaws (Apr 20, 2009)

Maggies mom said:


> I agree... with our rescue if the owners who turned him in and hadnt taken him to have a echo done, then we would be so we determine, what course of action to take.


DVGRR would also do the exams and tests necessary to determine exactly what his fellow has and needs before they would put him up for adoption. 

Kirby has a low grade murmur with very minor SAS, the cardiologist gave her a big OK to do what ever she wants. Once you know what is going on you can determine what this guy needs. I bet he has a tremendous amount of love to give.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Opps double post..


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Muddypaws said:


> DVGRR would also do the exams and tests necessary to determine exactly what his fellow has and needs before they would put him up for adoption.
> 
> Kirby has a low grade murmur with very minor SAS, the cardiologist gave her a big OK to do what ever she wants. Once you know what is going on you can determine what this guy needs. I bet he has a tremendous amount of love to give.


Have you noticed something about these murmur babies, all the ones we have had through our rescue and my Cruiser have such a special love. It sounds weird , but theres something different about them. I cant explain it...


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I LOVE the special needs kids.... they do have a gift that many others don't. Although not a heart issue, I wouldn't trade my special needs boy for anything.


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## Muddypaws (Apr 20, 2009)

Maggies mom said:


> Have you noticed something about these murmur babies, all the ones we have had through our rescue and my Cruiser have such a special love. It sounds weird , but theres something different about them. I cant explain it...


Yes, I don't know what it is either, but everyone Sunny ever met cried when they learned of her passing, the whole vet office was a mess that day and I still have people who will comment on special she was. Even folks that only met her a few times. I believe they have a special "something" that's makes up for the illness.


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## Muddypaws (Apr 20, 2009)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> I LOVE the special needs kids.... they do have a gift that many others don't. Although not a heart issue, I wouldn't trade my special needs boy for anything.


I know this feeling. There is no greater reward then having one of these dogs in your life. They give so much; it's hard to describe it.


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## golden dexter (Oct 14, 2009)

Thank you for all of the great advice! I am sure the rescue has more of a medical history on him than I know of right now. The person I spoke to did not have that information with them, but now I have a lot of questions to ask them when we meet him this weekend. Thank you again,


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## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

Im looking forward to hearing all about your meeting wiht this special pup!


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## RachelsGoldens (Jan 23, 2011)

http://s1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff388/R25Roach/?action=view&current=IMG_1936.jpg
















This is Gracie. She came into our rescue with her three brothers. We knew she had a heart murmur, so we took her to a cardiologist and she was diagnosed with severe SAS and was told she would live to be 2-3 years old. She turned 3 in August  I kept her as a permanent foster as it was our first time dealing with this in the rescue, and we decided it would ensure the best care for her since she needs to see the cardiologist yearly to renew her heart meds, and we couldn't reasonably expect and adopter to pay that yearly bill and provider her with everything else she needs. (Although, I have been paying this bill, since I get the joy of having her in my life). Most people said they couldn't adopt a dog with this short of a life expectancy. The cardiologist wants her to be a couch potato, so we don't' tell him about the "doggie swim parties" at the neighbor's house on the lake, or the dog park membership. We decided with her personality, quality is better than quantity. She never slows down and she has the sweetest personality. She is a Certified Therapy Dog and a Reading Education Assistance Dog (READ). She is a joy to everyone and couldn't be happier that I got the privilege to be her mom, no matter how long she is with us. From the stories I have seen on this forum, most exceed life expectancy with proper care and meds.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I got Cruiser when he was 8 weeks old, fostered him till he was 6 months old and as soon as anyone heard Heart murmur, no one wanted him, so he went on the unadoptable list, He will be 4 in March and everyone who comes to adoptions days and I have him over there now want him. Its like "Sorry"cant have him, hes not going anywhere, There isnt a dog that he doesnt like and if a dog doesnt like him he just looks at them like ok I will go find a new friend...Knowing how he is, glad there werent anymore left from him litter, otherwise I would have kept them all..

Here is Cruiser is full mode with his partner in Crime Abbie chasing him.

















And Cruiser chasing Abbie:


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Yep there's definitely something special about Tinkerbell, I wouldn't trade her for the world. And everyone that meets her falls a little bit in love. I'm fortunate that our regular vet is able and willing to prescribe the heart meds and just consult with the cardiologist over the phone periodically, so I don't have to worry about driving over an hour and paying the specialist visit. And the meds are available at Walmart for $4 a month so no big deal.


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## vrmueller (Jun 14, 2008)

RachelsGoldens said:


> This is Gracie. She came into our rescue with her three brothers. We knew she had a heart murmur, so we took her to a cardiologist and she was diagnosed with severe SAS and was told she would live to be 2-3 years old. She turned 3 in August  I kept her as a permanent foster as it was our first time dealing with this in the rescue, and we decided it would ensure the best care for her since she needs to see the cardiologist yearly to renew her heart meds, and we couldn't reasonably expect and adopter to pay that yearly bill and provider her with everything else she needs. (Although, I have been paying this bill, since I get the joy of having her in my life). Most people said they couldn't adopt a dog with this short of a life expectancy. The cardiologist wants her to be a couch potato, so we don't' tell him about the "doggie swim parties" at the neighbor's house on the lake, or the dog park membership. We decided with her personality, quality is better than quantity. She never slows down and she has the sweetest personality. She is a Certified Therapy Dog and a Reading Education Assistance Dog (READ). She is a joy to everyone and couldn't be happier that I got the privilege to be her mom, no matter how long she is with us. From the stories I have seen on this forum, most exceed life expectancy with proper care and meds.


What a special girl and all of the special things she does for others. May you have many wonderful years with Gracie.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> I LOVE the special needs kids.... they do have a gift that many others don't. Although not a heart issue, I wouldn't trade my special needs boy for anything.


 
It is the special needs kids that grab your heart and run with it!! My special needs boy, tho not a physical problem, has stolen my heart from day one, he loves more, gives more, tries harder, and is truly an absolute joy to have in my life! I could not ask for more!!


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## nrowland (Apr 20, 2011)

*Sas*

Hi everyone,

My wife and I have a 4 month old golden "Sean". We bought him here in Korea from a nice breeder. We just found out today that he has severe SAS, not sure exactly what level yet. He is in the ICU for 2 days now to clear the fluid from his lungs then he will come back to us and start on the beta-blockers.

Even with the beta-blockers the cardiologist says he will live around 1 year but after reading the posts here I feel more confident. The main problem I see is that we will need to fly back to the US with him this December. I feel that would be too much stress over too long a period for him to withstand.

The vet says his SAS will get worse and progress to loss of movement in his limbs and more fluid in his lungs, eventually death. We love him so much and would try anything necessary but I don't want him live in that state towards the end of his life. If anyone has been through something like this before any advice is greatly appreciated.

Nick


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Golden Dexter*

*Golden Dexter*
How did it go when you met him?


*Nrowland*
So sorry to hear about your puppy. I googled canine SAS and came up with this.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4TSNA_enUS370US370&q=Canine+SAS

Hoping someone on this forum can give input. I suggest you post your question in Physiology and Health section here for more replies.
http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/golden-retriever-health-anatomy-physiology-breed-standard/


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