# Defense Agression



## Bella30 (Apr 1, 2019)

Hi all!



My adorable boy Wally is the best boy. He’s a young boy at 18 months who just got neutered recently. He’s super friendly and loves all people and dogs.



I live in an apartment complex but we have a huge park which we spend hours at every day off leash. We never go to the dog park because I don’t think they’re a good idea, but he has plenty of friends he knows and plays with in the general park area where there’s a lot of room for separation from dogs I don’t know.



While Wally is sweet as can be, when he gets attacked by another dog - he attacks back. Meaning, he tries to defend himself and doesn’t run away and a dog fight basically breaks out. While this is rare as I try to be super careful with who we interact with, today there was an incident with an unknown dog that walked by and I couldn’t stop Wally before he ran to try to say hi (I know this shouldn’t have happened and was my fault - but just giving an example). The dog immediately snapped at and attacked him, and so he started attacking back. Thankfully nothing serious happened by any means and both dogs were just fine.



This is scary for me. While this is rare and we are hardly put in this situation, I wish he would back off instead of defending himself and therefore escalating the situation. I always try to intervene ASAP if and when this happens, but I hate that it has to escalate because of his defensiveness.



He also for example, hates being humped and snaps at another dog if he gets trapped underneath the humper, or if the dog is persistent.



This makes me sad and makes me think that he feels he has no other choice but to defend himself, or it makes me feel like he has some aggression in him (probably just normal dog behavior - I’m just an anxious person) which also makes me sad.



Are there any tips or advice anyone might have to help with this and to teach him to just back off and that I can defend him other than obviously being watchful, not letting him around strange dogs, and intervening ASAP?



Anything would be appreciated! Thanks so much!


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## CCoopz (Jun 2, 2020)

Dog park and my submissive golden


I am not a lazy dog owner. I care for my dog immensely and only asked a question on this forum to HELP her. I'm equating your situation to those tv shows where there is a sweet sensitive kid getting picked on by a bully at school. The dad chimes in, well I'll teach you to defend yourself, so...




www.goldenretrieverforum.com





Try reading through this recent post. Bear with it as there is some good practical advice in it aside from the don’t go to dog park stuff. 

But I would say you shouldn’t be allowing other dogs to hump him. As soon as another dog lays their head on his back or raises up to mount you should be telling the other owner to get their dog off, NOW! 

You should also be distracting your dog when another dog walks past or is near-ish with treats. Keep him trotting by your side and giving him high value treats. 

Find some nice well socialised dogs that are not dominant to arrange doggy play dates with.


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## Bella30 (Apr 1, 2019)

CCoopz said:


> Dog park and my submissive golden
> 
> 
> I am not a lazy dog owner. I care for my dog immensely and only asked a question on this forum to HELP her. I'm equating your situation to those tv shows where there is a sweet sensitive kid getting picked on by a bully at school. The dad chimes in, well I'll teach you to defend yourself, so...
> ...


Thank You so much! And yes, I never let dogs hump him. But he snaps just when it DOES happen.
And believe me, I’m not a fan of dog parks. I think they’re a terrible idea and we avoid them. 
I think I need to be more consistent with the treats. It’s hard because to him people and other dogs are better than any treat he could get.

Thanks again for the input! I’ll give the post you linked a read.


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## CCoopz (Jun 2, 2020)

Today I practiced with Teddy sitting on some steps on the promenade at the beach. 
I commanded him to sit and I gave him treats to reward his maintaining seated position as other dogs and people strolled past along the promenade. 

Try doing things like that. And have confidence to tell other dogs owners and people wanted to come up to him that he is in training so please don’t approach. 

You can even get a little jacket that says ‘training’ on the sides. I bought a harness that was black and fluorescent yellow. Unintentionally it made Teddy look like a Service dog to some people. I obviously didn’t ever pretend he was. But found the misconception helpful to keep people at bay while I was training him the first few months he joined us. 
(We adopted him at 18 months).


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Bella30 said:


> Wally is sweet as can be, when he gets attacked by another dog - he attacks back. Meaning, he tries to defend himself and doesn’t run away and a dog fight basically breaks out.


This is normal behavior, Wally is a dog.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

You want to teach the dog not to defend himself? I would personally act like a pack leader and not let a strange dog attack my dog.


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## Bella30 (Apr 1, 2019)

gdgli said:


> You want to teach the dog not to defend himself? I would personally act like a pack leader and not let a strange dog attack my dog.


 It just escalates the situation if he tries to defend himself because then it’s harder to pull them off each other. 

This had nothing to do with me not acting like a pack leader? This dog came up next to us and I couldn’t stop Wally from taking a step in that direction to say hi - obviously I would have if I could and I tried, but sometimes these situations are inevitable no matter how hard you try to control it.

I’m posting here for any training tips on how to de-escalate a situation that has ALREADY begun - not how to prevent it in the first place. I’m aware of how and always do that - but this was a rare incident. So I’m asking for the future in order to be prepared. Like learning to prepare for any emergency situation in case it happens even though it’s not likely to.

Thanks!


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## Bella30 (Apr 1, 2019)

CCoopz said:


> Today I practiced with Teddy sitting on some steps on the promenade at the beach.
> I commanded him to sit and I gave him treats to reward his maintaining seated position as other dogs and people strolled past along the promenade.
> 
> Try doing things like that. And have confidence to tell other dogs owners and people wanted to come up to him that he is in training so please don’t approach.
> ...


Thats great advice!  appreciate it.
I hate having any strange dogs come close to us - it makes me nervous so I avoid it. But I think making it more known that we don’t want people approaching us is a good idea.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I understand. I live in NYC and have to deal with 1) an unleashed Pug across the street 2) an unleashed Mastiff that lives 3 blocks away 3) a reactive German Shepherd that lives 1 1/2 blocks away 4) a Westie on a 20' lead.
My solutions:
1. Discover a distance from others that does not get my do to react
2. Recognize unleashed animals and completely avoid them
3. Cooperation with the Shepherd's owner---we both use :"Let's hide" with our dogs
4. Recognize the Westie from 2 blocks away. The owner lets this dog display aggressive behavior when close. BTW I can't stand the guy---his dog pulls him around and I know that the dog soils in the house, he thinks it's funny.
5. I have used CLICK TO CALM.

Good luck.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

That clicking sound you hear is me standing here clicking the snap on your dog's leash. No off leash time unless you can 100% control your surroundings. 

No interaction with other dogs outside of a very few that you can trust (including trusting your dog with). If you take your dog off leash, you have to have your head spinning at all times looking for any approaching dogs before your dog can see them - and you need to work on training to bring your dog to heel so you can put a leash back on immediately and create a protective bubble around your dog before an attack can happen.


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## Goldhill (Jul 3, 2016)

Bella30 said:


> He also for example, hates being humped and snaps at another dog if he gets trapped underneath the humper, or if the dog is persistent.


Just wanted to say that snapping when being humped is not an overreaction on your dog's part, this is a rude behavior that many dogs do not tolerate. If it escalates to a fight then more management is required to make sure it never happens in the first place, but don't expect your dog to just stand there/cower when being humped. My (spayed) girl for some reason has always attracted the humpers, and in those inevitable cases where strange dogs run up to her and give her the look I warn the owner that she *will* snap if their dog tries to hump her. Luckily she does not escalate to fighting, but I would never reprimand her behavior in this case, as she is sending a clear message to the other dog that it is not acceptable behavior.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

Bella30 said:


> (...) While Wally is sweet as can be, when he gets attacked by another dog - he attacks back. Meaning, he tries to defend himself and doesn’t run away and a dog fight basically breaks out. While this is rare as I try to be super careful with who we interact with, today there was an incident with an unknown dog that walked by and I couldn’t stop Wally before he ran to try to say hi (I know this shouldn’t have happened and was my fault - but just giving an example). The dog immediately snapped at and attacked him, and so he started attacking back. Thankfully nothing serious happened by any means and both dogs were just fine.
> 
> This is scary for me. While this is rare and we are hardly put in this situation, I wish he would back off instead of defending himself and therefore escalating the situation. I always try to intervene ASAP if and when this happens, but I hate that it has to escalate because of his defensiveness.
> 
> ...


A couple of comments first, then a couple of suggestions.

First, as others have said, both the interactions you describe here (reacting to being snapped at by the other dog, and snapping at a dog that humps him) are normal dog behaviour. They aren't signs of aggression. He's not starting fights, he's simply defending himself when another dog attacks him or invades his space. You can't and shouldn't teach him to back off. If you stop him from defending himself, you're going to make him insecure. Insecurity can lead to outright aggression. So by preventing him from defending himself, you run the risk of creating aggression.

For the humping, my dog reacts in exactly the same way when humped, and it's fine. It's their way of telling the other dog: hey, that's not acceptable - get out of my space. Why would that make you sad? If a stranger came up to you and put their hands on you, would you just sit back and let them, or would you shove them out of the way and tell them to get lost? Because that is what your dog is doing: communicating that the behaviour is unacceptable. It's normal for him to do that.

IMHO you need to be careful about over-reacting. Dogs aren't humans, they are dogs. If you allow your dog to interact with other dogs, there are going to be disagreements. It's inevitable. Growling and snapping is normal. It's how dogs settle things between themselves. Your job is to keep him out of situations where these things are likely to escalate. The best way of doing that is not to let him interact with dogs you don't know. Period. I have a dog that gets on well with almost all other dogs, but the key word here is "almost". When we walk on our club's off-leash trails, I always put him back on his leash if we encounter dogs I don't know, and keep him by my side. I don't take risks.

The other thing I'd suggest is doing activities with him that will build the bond between you and him, not between him and strangers/other dogs. In other words, you need to make yourself more fun than the rest of the environment. The best way of doing this is through training. Any kind of training activity would do the trick. And when you go out, try to interact with him more. Play retrieving games - take a ball or bumper with you and throw it for him. Do impromptu training sessions with really, really good treats as rewards (e.g. a pouch full of cooked chicken or cheese). Practise recall games, using the same good treats. Don't use the treats as lures to keep him with you. Use them as rewards for coming to you, or for doing what you ask. This will improve his recall and make him less interested in strangers. 

I'd also suggest that you read a bit about dog behaviour, so that you can read situations and separate normal behaviour from potentially aggressive behaviour.

Best of luck! It sounds like you have a really nice dog.


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## Bella30 (Apr 1, 2019)

ceegee said:


> A couple of comments first, then a couple of suggestions.
> 
> First, as others have said, both the interactions you describe here (reacting to being snapped at by the other dog, and snapping at a dog that humps him) are normal dog behaviour. They aren't signs of aggression. He's not starting fights, he's simply defending himself when another dog attacks him or invades his space. You can't and shouldn't teach him to back off. If you stop him from defending himself, you're going to make him insecure. Insecurity can lead to outright aggression. So by preventing him from defending himself, you run the risk of creating aggression.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for taking the time to write this! 😊 This is really great advice, and it helps me calm down a lot. 



I think I’m just slightly traumatized because before him I fostered a dog that was so aggressive, I couldn’t even have people over (she tried attacking my guests every time). So this is my first fully functional friendly with everyone type dog I’ve ever owned - so I’m still learning the ropes.



We definitely avoid strange dogs, and I actually do a lot of retrieving training with his favorite bacon scented squeaky balls every day! (He enjoys it more and more and only gets better as the months have gone on). This is his main form of exercise - usually retrieving for about an hour.



He’s actually usually the target for humpers as well, even with his friends that he knows well which can be annoying. I’m always super watchful with this and as soon as I see any dog put their head over his shoulder seemingly ready to hump, I run over and take the dog off as well as tell the owner to please get their dog off my dog as he doesn’t tolerate being humped.



If you have any book recommendations on understanding dog behavior and interactions between different dogs, I would love for you to send them my way! I’ve read a lot online and continue to do so, but I find a lot of mixed information.



Thanks so much again! And yes he’s the best and the center of my universe (along with his two kitty brothers) 😊!


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## CCoopz (Jun 2, 2020)

How cute. Golden and cat curled up together napping. You’ve managed to create a harmonious home between your animals so I’m sure you can work on things outside of the home for you and your golden.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Bella

As for your foster---I believe that when you do something like that you need to be at the top of your game in terms of dog body language and behavior modification.

As for other puppies/dogs you would do well to read CULTURE CLASH by Jean Donaldson. We tend to judge dog behavior in terms of human behavior. What we perceive as problems are not really problems. This book opened my eyes.


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