# Hunt and Field Training Plans for the week of April 1-7



## marsh mop (Mar 13, 2009)

Barb, have fun!! Enjoy your time at the line, you. will be fine.
Jim


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> Happy April Fool's Day!
> This is a little early because I don't think I will have internet access this weekend.
> 
> What's up for everyone this week? I will post when I get back, because my plans will hinge on what happens this weekend. One thing I know, we need to do some attitude adjustment exercises.


What happened?


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Pick up the chickens and fabric and remember to breathe!!


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

We have been working on a lot of training with distractions. I have introduced judges' chairs, goose rig, handler-judge chatter and duck calls into our bumper sessions. 

Also this past week we had 8 dogs at a bumper session and we trained for a mass honor. Although it is now prohibited due to rule changes we will continue to work on it. We work our dogs at a preserve, we hunt multiple dogs, and I think that the dogs should be able to do it.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Barb,
I think 8 and 10 will be luckly numbers for you this week-end.
Best wishes!


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

gdgli said:


> We have been working on a lot of training with distractions. I have introduced judges' chairs, goose rig, handler-judge chatter and duck calls into our bumper sessions.
> 
> Also this past week we had 8 dogs at a bumper session and we trained for a mass honor. Although it is now prohibited due to rule changes we will continue to work on it. We work our dogs at a preserve, we hunt multiple dogs, and I think that the dogs should be able to do it.


Very good training on honor I have also heard it referred to as "British Line"


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

I start training again at our club on monday. Not sure how that will go as Jige seems to have forgotten "come". We are working on this I have him back on the long line making him do his job as he is just coming up 11mos I am sure it is that "teenager" rearing its ugly head. He works just fine when it is just us it is when we get a few more people around that he chooses to greet them..smh.
Because of this new developement I will be working more on line manners and honors off leash heeling.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

The good, the bad, and the (very) ugly.
Saturday's test was very hard (according to the pros). The land marks weren't bad, although there was quite a bit of cover, but the land blind was ugly. It was about 50 yards away, through heavy cover, around a couple of bushes, across a mowed "road", into the cover on the other side, and then about 6 feet UNDER the trees. The dogs had a really hard time with it. There were 13 entered, 5 went out on the land blind. 
The water marks weren't hard but the environment was horrid. Downed logs everywhere. Not just a couple, LOTS of them. Stomach deep swamp on both sides of the water. It was swimming water, not splashing water. The blind was across several logs, including some that ran perpendicular to the shore. At one point Tito got stuck between 2 logs and I thought I was going to have to go in after him, but he figured it out. Someone took some photos which she said she'd email me, hopefully they turned out okay. 
There were 13 dogs entered, 7 finished. 5 of the 7 were living with/handled by pros, the other 2 were Tito and one other owner-handled dog.
To say the least I was incredibly proud of him. The judge said he should be running master...but in any case he got his first SH pass.
HA! Good thing she didn't see today's test!!!
Today's test on land was a "gimmee". The marks were ridiculously easy. Shot flier about 80 yards away, falling into cover about 8-10 inches tall. Memory bird at a good 90 degrees from it, about 60 yards away. Also falling in the same cover. Blind completely behind the line, straight back, in the same cover with no real factors anywhere near it, about 50 yards back. Most of the marks we ran in JH were harder than this.
So....we get to the line, I'm feeling pretty good about this after yesterday. For no apparent reason, he either didn't see the flier go down or somehow lost it. Totally unlike him, he nails these all the time. So he put up a huge hunt, and got downwind of the live birds behind the holding blind, and just couldn't get back to where the flier went down. He hunted and hunted and hunted, very diligent, scenting the air, quartering, etc. But just couldn't get it. Then unfortunately he got too close to the road to suit me, so I sat him and handled him to the bird. He handled nicely and came back with it.
So by now I knew he was going to have an *issue* with the memory bird, he'd been hunting forever for the flier and had been all over the place. So I lined him up with it, sent him out, he headed out, then when he got near it started to hunt for it. He turned and looked at me, and then started to head toward me. I don't know if he was planning to come back in or not, I had a feeling he might be (although after that hunt on the flier, maybe not?) but I just didn't like the way he was acting. He was very clearly thinking about becoming self-employed out there and having himself a good time hunting around, as he has been known to do lately. So I whistled him in, thanked the judges and said, "we're done". The judge said I didn't have to pick him up, but I know I was going to have to handle him to that mark and I had already handled him once. I didn't want to run the risk of him trotting around the field having a grand time for himself. 
So today was a major disappointment. Very easy test, only 2 of the 11 entries didn't pass the land, and Tito was one of them.
Sigh.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I hate to admit how upset I am about today.
Not that he needed help with the flier, those things happen. He must not have seen it go down for some reason, because he has no problem with that stuff. So no big deal. I understood what happened with him getting by the caged live birds, and he just couldn't recover from the smell. That didn't upset me. If it hadn't been for the street, I probably would not have had to handle him and he would have eventually recovered and found it. 
What got me so upset was the memory bird. Now I understand him not remembering where it went down, the hunt for the flier was long and intense. (Judge said he gets a 10 for perserverance anyway). But I truly believe he was planning to either come back without the memory bird, or start hunting around the field having a good time for himself. Neither is acceptable. 
I'm pretty discouraged right now. Hard to believe he did such a great job yesterday, and then this today.


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

Barb,

Please don't be disappointed in him. He is a fantastic dog, and has always done a fantastic job for you. He only failed one out of two tries, in his first two tries at Senior Hunter !!!! My lord, girl, every sport you have tried with this dog, he has excelled at!
There is no shame at all in him not getting a pass today, step back, look at the big picture and take pride in the fact that are you trialing your dog at this level. He is young, you have plenty of time, he didn't give you what you expected today. He will the next time, and if he doesn't then, so what? Hey, look at me, the dog I expected to get his Otch never made it past open, which is entirely all my fault. 
But he doesn't care about that, all he cares about is he knows I love and cherish him, and I know Tito feels the same. 

Donna


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks Donna, I needed that. I do tend to forget how much he has accomplished in a short amount of time, and put a lot of pressure on myself to do more with him.
Time to regroup my thoughts.



my4goldens said:


> Barb,
> 
> Please don't be disappointed in him. He is a fantastic dog, and has always done a fantastic job for you. He only failed one out of two tries, in his first two tries at Senior Hunter !!!! My lord, girl, every sport you have tried with this dog, he has excelled at!
> There is no shame at all in him not getting a pass today, step back, look at the big picture and take pride in the fact that are you trialing your dog at this level. He is young, you have plenty of time, and so what, he didn't give you what you expected today. He will the next time, and if he doesn't then, so what? Hey, look at me, the dog I expected to get his Otch never made it past open, which is entirely all my fault.
> ...


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Barb--I'm going to remind you of something.....




HE'S A DOG!!!!



They have good days, and bad days, and sometimes do things that confound us. Breeze failed a Senior when she disappeared into cover on the memory bird on water and reemerged downwind of the blind. I had a handle left, and she refused my casts and said "Screw you, I can smell where a bird is." Fought her to the bird I wanted her to get, then thanked the judges and packed her up!

So keep it in perspective--Congrats on the pass in the *tough* test, and the compliment from Maggie (she's fab!)--that should be gratifying. Sorry he did not behave himself for Joe and Ed--Joe would have been rooting for him, as he loves to see Goldens do well.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Ended up a rain day for us today.

We did train yesterday, though. Bonnie did a wonderful job on all her marks, and they were challenging. The field had had cattle manure spread on it during the week, so the dogs had a really difficult time scenting the bumpers. She took good lines out despite sidehill and loss of sightline factors. She had to put on a smart hunt to dig a couple of them out, and she really stuck in there. She was steady, and honoured well too. In the afternoon we did single T work and she was stopping and casting, as well as running straight back past the over piles.

Breeze, on the other hand, was a *train wreck*!! (Yes, my Master dog was falling apart!!!) We had done some poison bird work and she seemed to just get completely up in her head, and would not concentrate on the marks. So we have some work to do to get her back in balance this week.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Of course results ar not on EE yet--Barb, did the flattie Darrin Morman was running in SH get through? The Kistryl dog?


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

hotel4dogs

They are dogs, lighten up, tomorrow is another day. And, you don't have the dog's perspective, you don't really know what he was seeing-smelling.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Congrats on your first pass...and I agree lighten up on Tito. You have such a great dog who has excelled...so many people only dream of having such a dog and never get half as far!


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

It was freezing cold this morning, but thankfully did not rain. Scout got to fun a longer mark that was water land water. I decided to build it by starting at the middle piece of land, then running a second time for the line. She did great both times and even broke (which she normally doesn't) to charge in the water. Didn't mind the breaking though as she has had iffy times water entries in the past. So I was very pleased today when she had plenty up and go with it being cold for me all coated up and NOT wet. Then did one other water mark that just landed in some wading water and she had a blast hopping around in that looking for the bumper and getting deceived initially by a branch that looked like a bumper.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I don't know about today, Shelly, as I didn't stick around after that humiliating performance, but yesterday Hasbro did get a pass.
The judges today were wonderful. I have no complaints at all. They were kind and helpful. Told me I didn't have to pick up my dog, I could have waited to see if he'd recover...but that I had, in all likelyhood, done the right thing by picking him up and not letting him get away with knowing he could do as he pleased out there.




sterregold said:


> Of course results ar not on EE yet--Barb, did the flattie Darrin Morman was running in SH get through? The Kistryl dog?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks for the kind words. Yes, Maggie is THE BEST. I loved running under her. Her tests were tough but fair. Probably closer to real hunting situations. Even the logs in the pond! Also had the pleasure of having dinner with her afterward and she is simply delightful.
Now that I'm over being so upset, I'm sorting out what happened, and how to fix it. Already talked to Dan about it, and we need a 2 (or 3) pronged approach.
I have so much going on in my life right now, getting out to train is almost impossible. I'm trying to figure out how to fit it in. I need to win the lottery.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

hotel4dogs

Congratulations on your pass!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Hi Barb, just now reading your post -- CONGRATS on the first leg! Would love to see pictures of Saturday's test as it sounds like a doozy! 
You know they are right, dogs are dogs, can't win em every time. 

Today we trained at the big field by Kristin's. We had five of us and seven goldens. Set up I think 6 holding blinds and ran singles or doubles off of them, some kinda tough little marks. Set up three blinds between them and ran them at the end. I just ran Slater, he did a very cute job, no complaints there.

Fisher is on training hiatus until I can get him to the rehab vet. He is lame in his right front if we train land. Sucks but I can't afford to take him right now, but rest certainly won't hurt it. In the past two weeks I've had him to the vet for another @#[email protected]#%ing ear hematoma and a UTI. 

We have a minor conundrum with one of our training partners. She owns one of Kristin's puppies so we're stuck with her. She is very friendly, and her dog could be awesome, BUT ------ she lives half the year in another state, and has a field trainer she takes lessons from there. (She lives there in the summer and FL in the winter.) Well she refuses to do ANYTHING we suggest and will ONLY do what her trainer tells her to do. The problem arises because the trainer hasn't seen the dog in SIX MONTHS! The dog got his JH this spring in FL, but is the most poorly behaved dog I've ever seen at the blind (imagine, pulling it's owner through holding blinds, walking to the line on two feet, trying to go before sent even with the owner holding it's collar, the works). He has water issues. He will not lock on a gunner (head swivels all over the field). It's a mess. And she WILL NOT ACCEPT OUR HELP TO FIX IT. She refuses to make the dog behave online or be steady because her trainer "doesn't want to come down on him and dissuade his field desire." Today she insisted on doing DOUBLES because "XXXX says we need to work on doubles." Add to that, when she is done with her dog, she pretty much packs up and leaves. This is a problem, a big one, and I think we're gonna have to set some ground rules. I understand it's good to have a mentor but if you train with a group, it's not obedience run-thru where you pay your five bucks for ring time and do what you want. We're here to help each other and make each other BETTER. I spend time thinking up ways to help her and she completely blows it off, and I really get the opinion she thinks we're all nincompoops and don't know what we're doing. I cannot sit idle and watch her handle the dog poorly, it drives me INSANE. Okay, rant over.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

K9-Design said:


> We have a minor conundrum with one of our training partners. She owns one of Kristin's puppies so we're stuck with her. She is very friendly, and her dog could be awesome, BUT ------ she lives half the year in another state, and has a field trainer she takes lessons from there. (She lives there in the summer and FL in the winter.) Well she refuses to do ANYTHING we suggest and will ONLY do what her trainer tells her to do. The problem arises because the trainer hasn't seen the dog in SIX MONTHS! The dog got his JH this spring in FL, but is the most poorly behaved dog I've ever seen at the blind (imagine, pulling it's owner through holding blinds, walking to the line on two feet, trying to go before sent even with the owner holding it's collar, the works). He has water issues. He will not lock on a gunner (head swivels all over the field). It's a mess. And she WILL NOT ACCEPT OUR HELP TO FIX IT. She refuses to make the dog behave online or be steady because her trainer "doesn't want to come down on him and dissuade his field desire." Today she insisted on doing DOUBLES because "XXXX says we need to work on doubles." Add to that, when she is done with her dog, she pretty much packs up and leaves. This is a problem, a big one, and I think we're gonna have to set some ground rules. I understand it's good to have a mentor but if you train with a group, it's not obedience run-thru where you pay your five bucks for ring time and do what you want. We're here to help each other and make each other BETTER. I spend time thinking up ways to help her and she completely blows it off, and I really get the opinion she thinks we're all nincompoops and don't know what we're doing. I cannot sit idle and watch her handle the dog poorly, it drives me INSANE. Okay, rant over.


Rant warranted--new folks often wonder why it is so hard to find a group to train with and this sort of thing is precisely why so many experienced folks get reluctant to extend the invitation. Makes you feel like saying: "If you know so much, go buy some wingers and set up your own group!"


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> I don't know about today, Shelly, as I didn't stick around after that humiliating performance, but yesterday Hasbro did get a pass.
> The judges today were wonderful. I have no complaints at all. They were kind and helpful. Told me I didn't have to pick up my dog, I could have waited to see if he'd recover...but that I had, in all likelyhood, done the right thing by picking him up and not letting him get away with knowing he could do as he pleased out there.


Yay! Maryann will be thrilled. Hasbro is such a nice boy. The prodigy!

Heard that two of my Golden buddies got double passes in the Master--one finished the title, and the other now has just one left to go!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

sterregold said:


> Rant warranted--new folks often wonder why it is so hard to find a group to train with and this sort of thing is precisely why so many experienced folks get reluctant to extend the invitation. Makes you feel like saying: "If you know so much, go buy some wingers and set up your own group!"


OMG trust me I already thought about that! 
Kristin and I already have joked that if it weren't for the fact she has one of Sophie's puppies she'd have gotten the boot a long time ago.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> The dogs had a really hard time with it. There were 13 entered, 5 went out on the land blind.
> Downed logs everywhere. Not just a couple, LOTS of them. Stomach deep swamp on both sides of the water. It was swimming water, not splashing water. The blind was across several logs, including some that ran perpendicular to the shore. At one point Tito got stuck between 2 logs and I thought I was going to have to go in after him, but he figured it out.
> There were 13 dogs entered, 7 finished. 5 of the 7 were living with/handled by pros, the other 2 were Tito and one other owner-handled dog.
> To say the least I was incredibly proud of him.


WooHoo! Congratulations on the Senior pass! It sounds like a really tough one. The line to the water blind was over logs in swimming water? Holy Moly, are you sure you were in Senior and not Master? 

Sometimes, I get a bit down because Winter is a little behind the dogs she ran Junior/Started with last year. However, I realized about a month ago everyone of those dogs has been on the Pro's truck at some point in their training. Winter and I, are learning this together. It is going to take us longer and we will make mistakes but we're going get to Senior and then take a run at Master. Sound familiar? 

By the way, I didn't see in your description where you threw up in the holding blinds, or that you couldn't feel your feet. Yipee you survived going to the line in not one but two Senior Tests!
Congrats on the pass, we are very proud of you and the Monster Boy.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks Holly. One of the biggest big name pros said that the senior tests in this area in the past year have been "ridiculously difficult", and the master tests have been "fairly easy", to the point where some of the senior tests they've run have been harder than the masters tests they ran the same day. 
I hope this gal got some decent photos, she said she'd email them to me. They were on the water series with the logs.
As far as surviving going to the line, I have to say all 4 judges were fabulous! They made me feel so relaxed and made it a fun experience, even with the fail today.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

hollyk said:


> Sometimes, I get a bit down because Winter is a little behind the dogs she ran Junior/Started with last year. However, I realized about a month ago everyone of those dogs has been on the Pro's truck at some point in their training. Winter and I, are learning this together. It is going to take us longer and we will make mistakes but we're going get to Senior and then take a run at Master. Sound familiar?


That's how I feel sometimes! But I always remember we all have different situations. Pro-trained...owner trained...lots of time to train...very little time to train....different dog personalities/weaknesses/strengths...experienced trainer....never done this before trainer...etc.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Congratulations on the pass! Just got home and am catching up with everyone. Sorry for Sunday, but hey...stuff happens. You guys will get through it.

Just found out Dooley is getting a girlfriend (a ** Bart daughter)! He'll be happy!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Barb,

First off, congratulations on your pass!! 
For the second, the test I whistled Faelan on in was similar - yes, some say you should never whistle the dog in without a bird, but I believe there are times when you just know what is right for your dog. In my case he had been hunting too long, could not break through the scent cone and it was hot - in your case it was to prevent possible future problems. So trust your instincts - you did as you felt you needed yo do. He failed - it happens. 

But he also passed 



hotel4dogs said:


> I hate to admit how upset I am about today.
> Not that he needed help with the flier, those things happen. He must not have seen it go down for some reason, because he has no problem with that stuff. So no big deal. I understood what happened with him getting by the caged live birds, and he just couldn't recover from the smell. That didn't upset me. If it hadn't been for the street, I probably would not have had to handle him and he would have eventually recovered and found it.
> What got me so upset was the memory bird. Now I understand him not remembering where it went down, the hunt for the flier was long and intense. (Judge said he gets a 10 for perserverance anyway). But I truly believe he was planning to either come back without the memory bird, or start hunting around the field having a good time for himself. Neither is acceptable.
> I'm pretty discouraged right now. Hard to believe he did such a great job yesterday, and then this today.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

posted this on my other thread, but I wanted to post it here, too.
I'm a bit annoyed that he failed the test, but that's not the real problem and it's not the real reason I'm so upset. 
The real reason is this seems to be an ongoing problem with him. If it were just a failed test, it would fall under the "stuff happens" category and oh well, they are dogs after all.
But we've been having issues with the memory bird for a while now. THAT's why I'm so bothered by it.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I think that it is wise to just address this as a little rust that needs to be cleaned up. And I don't think that it is hard to do.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> posted this on my other thread, but I wanted to post it here, too.
> I'm a bit annoyed that he failed the test, but that's not the real problem and it's not the real reason I'm so upset.
> The real reason is this seems to be an ongoing problem with him. If it were just a failed test, it would fall under the "stuff happens" category and oh well, they are dogs after all.
> But we've been having issues with the memory bird for a while now. THAT's why I'm so bothered by it.


I think you need to put this into perspective. You have only been at this with him for a year. Frankly, he is doing wonderfully for having a year of training into him. He hasn't seen that much yet. The one Senior test Winter failed last year happened on the memory bird on water. He screwed up and got an idea into _*his*_ head of where the bird was and would not take my direction. I picked him up and the gunner had to go out in a canoe to get his bird. He had run a beautiful test up to that point, and had gone out with purpose and conviction. He was 7 and had been training since he was a year old, and up to that point had passed 5 straight Senior tests between CKC and AKC--he's been doing doubles for ages, it was the blinds that had held us back from CKC WCX and SH. So stuff happens, and to expect Tito to be totally proofed and polished at this point, expecially since he is not out doing field training 5 days a week, is not realistic!


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> Thanks Holly. One of the biggest big name pros said that the senior tests in this area in the past year have been "ridiculously difficult", and the master tests have been "fairly easy", to the point where some of the senior tests they've run have been harder than the masters tests they ran the same day.
> I hope this gal got some decent photos, she said she'd email them to me. They were on the water series with the logs.
> As far as surviving going to the line, I have to say all 4 judges were fabulous! They made me feel so relaxed and made it a fun experience, even with the fail today.


Someone on RTF has a tagline I really like: "train, don't complain." Train to the high end of the standard, and train BEYOND what you can expect to see even at the upper end of that standard. Don't get sucked into the "this Senior is more like a Master" or the "Master is easier than Senior this weekend" discussions. Look at what you learned from the experience, where your dog's holes are and what you need to train for to make him a stronger, more functional working retriever. You have to look at it in the light that the tests have to meet a standard in terms of the skills which must be evaluated, but there is a wide range in how the judges can apply those elements given the grounds made available to them.

As to Senior, it is in my estimation the most difficult level to judge, in part because of the huge range of dogs you can have (straight out of JH and really not handling well enough yet, all the way up to dogs that have the skills to jump straight into Master), and also because of the range of complexity one can incorporate into a double and a blind outside the marks--they can be tightly placed with a lot of influence on one another, pushing the maximum distances, so conceptually difficult they may be harder than a wide-open triple, or short gimmes so widely spaced that if the dog is pointed in the right direction it ought to get the bird if it will go when sent (and dogs still fail those!!) As a judge, I have no obligation to set a test those strainght-out-of-Junior dogs can pass. That is not the test described by the standard nor is it the intent of the program--hunt tests are supposed to evaluate the skills and attributes that make a retriever a good hunting companion. So I always come back to the idea of the skills a hunting dog would need to possess--and a Senior dog should be a capable gundog--that means the dog needs to be steady, mark doubles in a fairly busy environment, handle responsively, and have the courage to deal with natural factors one would find in an environment where you would find birds--like a stick pond--a favourite hideout of woodducks, who are among my favourite ducks to hunt! 

To give you some interesting perspective, I have found that new handlers in CKC expect SH to be more challenging than new SH handlers in AKC. I think this may be because our WCI/and WCX tests offer intermediary steps to SH. There we get shorter marks and blinds, fewer factors and "cleaner" water. Because we have those tests, we expect SH to be more challenging because it is regarded as requiring more skill and ability, as a "step up". I have seen more people running dogs in AKC SH who do not have the requisite skills or experience than I have in CKC SH, and also heard far more complaining, especially about the blinds. To me, your Saturday test sounds like a really good Senior as it tested practical gundog skills in a very worklike setting. It sounds like the jduges took the complexity of the water they were given into consideration since your blinds and marks were not that long--by the regs you could technically have had a 100 yard blind through that crap, but they figured that negotiating those logs enroute demonstrated enough perseverance and put enough push-off-line factors into their test (and there do need to be factors that will tempt the dog to deviate!) that they did not need more distance.


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## KathyG (Nov 21, 2011)

My training plans for the next few weeks is to run singles and blinds.

The reason is that yesterday our group trained on the grounds where a lot of tests are run. There was a master we ran last May that caused dogs a lot of problems. A triple with a double blind running up a hill. For time sake we shortened it to a mom and pop double with the blind where mark 3 had been.

My dog remembered the picture! I did it as a walk up. After the second bird, he swung his head to where 3 had been.he is not usually a head swinger. He stepped on the marks, uphill iwirh a strong cross wind. When I sent him on the blind, he took a great initial line and then dove into the cover on line to last years blind. 

I'm sure he has remembered pictures before, but this one was so obvious. So to make sure he is working with me and not doing his own thing, I'm keeping it simple. He does like to drive after all.

Kathy


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks Shelly. I had to laugh at the idea of the gunner having to go out in a canoe!! 
You do make me feel better. I expect too much of him. I forget how little training he has had, I am a "fair weather trainer" and he sure doesn't get out much. And he is my first dog, so I'm sure I make so many mistakes it's a wonder he does as well as he does.
Had the best intentions of training today, but now I have an appointment this afternoon that will prevent it. Just the way things are.
Saturday afternoon after the water portion, someone who is "big in the golden retriever club" (no idea which club or where, LOL, I was just told that) came up to me and said that Tito had "restored her faith in the golden retriever breed". She said she had never seen a *show dog* with the heart and courage that he has, and she couldn't wait to get back to tell the club all about him. She said he is proof to the *show people* that it is possible to have both in a dog.
(good thing she didn't see him on Sunday, LOL)




sterregold said:


> I think you need to put this into perspective. You have only been at this with him for a year. Frankly, he is doing wonderfully for having a year of training into him. He hasn't seen that much yet. The one Senior test Winter failed last year happened on the memory bird on water. He screwed up and got an idea into _*his*_ head of where the bird was and would not take my direction. I picked him up and the gunner had to go out in a canoe to get his bird. He had run a beautiful test up to that point, and had gone out with purpose and conviction. He was 7 and had been training since he was a year old, and up to that point had passed 5 straight Senior tests between CKC and AKC--he's been doing doubles for ages, it was the blinds that had held us back from CKC WCX and SH. So stuff happens, and to expect Tito to be totally proofed and polished at this point, expecially since he is not out doing field training 5 days a week, is not realistic!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Not having a clue what to expect at a SH test, I wasn't one of the ones who said the Saturday test was too hard. I thought it was a fair and enjoyable test.
The land portion was much easier than what Dan does with us in training. The blind was tricky, because of some heavy cover, 3 cover changes, and it being tucked under the trees. Several people learned that they need to train their dogs to drive back into the trees; trees are not a wall and game will often hide in there. 
The water was tough because of all the logs, but Maggie said later that she tried to come up with a realistic training scenario and logs are just part of that. Guess more of us need to train our dogs to go up over logs. The interesting part is that, of the 8 dogs that were carried to the water, 7 passed it so the dogs obviously weren't as thrown off by the logs as the handlers were!
Sunday's test, I thought, was a "gimmee". Well except for Tito :doh:. Of course the next flier down was a flapping cripple that you could easily see from the line. My bad luck to not get that one .



sterregold said:


> Someone on RTF has a tagline I really like: "train, don't complain." Train to the high end of the standard, and train BEYOND what you can expect to see even at the upper end of that standard. Don't get sucked into the "this Senior is more like a Master" or the "Master is easier than Senior this weekend" discussions. Look at what you learned from the experience, where your dog's holes are and what you need to train for to make him a stronger, more functional working retriever. You have to look at it in the light that the tests have to meet a standard in terms of the skills which must be evaluated, but there is a wide range in how the judges can apply those elements given the grounds made available to them.
> 
> As to Senior, it is in my estimation the most difficult level to judge, in part because of the huge range of dogs you can have (straight out of JH and really not handling well enough yet, all the way up to dogs that have the skills to jump straight into Master), and also because of the range of complexity one can incorporate into a double and a blind outside the marks--they can be tightly placed with a lot of influence on one another, pushing the maximum distances, so conceptually difficult they may be harder than a wide-open triple, or short gimmes so widely spaced that if the dog is pointed in the right direction it ought to get the bird if it will go when sent (and dogs still fail those!!) As a judge, I have no obligation to set a test those strainght-out-of-Junior dogs can pass. That is not the test described by the standard nor is it the intent of the program--hunt tests are supposed to evaluate the skills and attributes that make a retriever a good hunting companion. So I always come back to the idea of the skills a hunting dog would need to possess--and a Senior dog should be a capable gundog--that means the dog needs to be steady, mark doubles in a fairly busy environment, handle responsively, and have the courage to deal with natural factors one would find in an environment where you would find birds--like a stick pond--a favourite hideout of woodducks, who are among my favourite ducks to hunt!
> 
> To give you some interesting perspective, I have found that new handlers in CKC expect SH to be more challenging than new SH handlers in AKC. I think this may be because our WCI/and WCX tests offer intermediary steps to SH. There we get shorter marks and blinds, fewer factors and "cleaner" water. Because we have those tests, we expect SH to be more challenging because it is regarded as requiring more skill and ability, as a "step up". I have seen more people running dogs in AKC SH who do not have the requisite skills or experience than I have in CKC SH, and also heard far more complaining, especially about the blinds. _To me, your Saturday test sounds like a really good Senior as it tested practical gundog skills in a very worklike setting. It sounds like the jduges took the complexity of the water they were given into consideration since your blinds and marks were not that long--by the regs you could technically have had a 100 yard blind through that crap, but they figured that negotiating those logs enroute demonstrated enough perseverance and put enough push-off-line factors into their test (and there do need to be factors that will tempt the dog to deviate!) that they did not need more distance._


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Your boy is an amazing marker!




KathyG said:


> My training plans for the next few weeks is to run singles and blinds.
> 
> The reason is that yesterday our group trained on the grounds where a lot of tests are run. There was a master we ran last May that caused dogs a lot of problems. A triple with a double blind running up a hill. For time sake we shortened it to a mom and pop double with the blind where mark 3 had been.
> 
> ...


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Barb it is so hard sometimes to read your posts about how you are only a fair weather trainer and to see how fast you've come with your dog in just a year...and then you turn around and are upset with him. There are a lot of people that would give up their left kidney for that dog!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks Lisa, I do need to be slapped down once in a while because I expect so much of him. And it turns out it's mostly HANDLER ERROR, not dog error. He is a wonderful dog, and I need to fix MY issues more than his.
We trained today with my main training partner, and my husband was there to help throw. It was 82 out, so we started on water at the cold pond. First time he's been there since the fall. I had them throw a couple of simple doubles on water, and he did a good job. Then a couple of easy (clear water, to the opposite shore and just a few feet out of the water) blinds. He took nice lines. Tossed out a couple of bumpers pretty far apart, did some split casting and he handled well so I was quite pleased with him. Did some swim-by reminders, and he was great. So overall, I was very happy. 
Then I had one of them toss a mark for me on the opposite shore, about 40 yards across, and then heeled him out of the area. Ran the other dog on a LONG blind, then brought Tito back to the line (thanks Shelly, I love this idea!) and sent him for the mark. He knew *about* where it was, and when he got on the opposite shore he found it quickly. 
A couple more easy marks with a bit longer swims just to stretch him out, and then we moved to land.
I had someone throw a mark for him about 80 yards out in moderately heavy cover (knee deep to a human, fairly thick), heeled him away from the line, and ran the other dog. Brought him back out, he remembered *about* where it was again, found it pretty quickly. (Shelly, did I mention that I love this idea??)
Since he had already run this mark now, I made it the memory bird of a double. The double was much harder than Sunday's test (you know, the one he failed) but much easier than Saturday's. I sent him for the go-bird, he stepped on it, and I was very very careful to not say a word except when he got back, "where's your mark?" and then I sent him. He stepped on that one, too. When he got back with it then we celebrated.
It was quite warm, and I was feeling successful, so we quit at that point.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> Thanks Lisa, I do need to be slapped down once in a while because I expect so much of him. And it turns out it's mostly HANDLER ERROR, not dog error. He is a wonderful dog, and I need to fix MY issues more than his.
> We trained today with my main training partner, and my husband was there to help throw. It was 82 out, so we started on water at the cold pond. First time he's been there since the fall. I had them throw a couple of simple doubles on water, and he did a good job. Then a couple of easy (clear water, to the opposite shore and just a few feet out of the water) blinds. He took nice lines. Tossed out a couple of bumpers pretty far apart, did some split casting and he handled well so I was quite pleased with him. Did some swim-by reminders, and he was great. So overall, I was very happy.
> Then I had one of them toss a mark for me on the opposite shore, about 40 yards across, and then heeled him out of the area. Ran the other dog on a LONG blind, then brought Tito back to the line (thanks Shelly, I love this idea!) and sent him for the mark. He knew *about* where it was, and when he got on the opposite shore he found it quickly.
> A couple more easy marks with a bit longer swims just to stretch him out, and then we moved to land.
> ...


I'm amazed at the amount of things you can cover in a session. This would take me all day!!


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Bonnie had a good session of T-work today. Little fart did try to go directly to the right over pile, but got her back before she could get it!

Then we did a marking setup--ran Breeze on three singles of increasing difficulty to work at getting her mojo back and then two blinds. Ran Bonnie on the hardest mark as a single, and then put the other two marks together with the tougher mark as the go-bird. She did a good job on all of that. Then shifted the wingers and set up a big dog double for Breeze which she stomped!! Going to keep doing confidence work with her tomorrow.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Quick but productive training today and yesterday. Yesterday met with Kristin and set up two sight blinds in the water, one narrow channel blind the other a shoreline blind. Ran Slater several times of each backing up the entry each time. The first one he got corrected for trying to cheat on the first send, the second one I think the same thing but was good with great momentum and attitude throughout. We then did two long water singles with everybody.
Today met with Bob, Kristin & Amber. Got there early and set up the same shoreline blind this time with no visible marker and ran from far back on the first one, Slater got in the water but faded to the shore, stopped and one cast put him on the right line -- cool!! Once everyone was there we set up a water setup - triple with breaking bird coming from behind an island almost behind the line, a shoreline blind under the arc of that bird, and the two memory birds in-line on the opposite shore. A 2nd blind rather simple, square entry on a small piece of water then well up on the land under the fence/tree line. Odd line setup with tall reeds the dog had to look around and run through to leave. I ran Slater on the shoreline blind first and the long memory bird as a single, put him up and then ran the whole setup. He did very nice and honored too. We were done with everything in 2 hrs. No training tomorrow, but plans for Thursday & Friday and a dog show this weekend.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Well we ran a few blinds today and she did really great with them. The only problem she was having is that she often was seeing the blind right after I stopped her...so instead of waiting for direction from me it was 'oh look, there it is! I'll go get it now' As a good trainer I was ready to enforce that sit though! Really good girl though.

And I was just thinking...I think my dog has a really good attitude at this point with blinds. It's kind of cool to go set-up the blinds and she knows I am 'hiding' bumpers out there and gets really eager and excited when I bring her out to go find them.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Ran 2 blinds today, the concept was "running up a steep hill". Forgot to bring a pole/flagging tape, but he did a good job.
Then set up a stupidly easy double, which he couldn't possibly screw up (and didn't). The go-bird was about 100 yards out, on mowed grass. The memory bird was about 50 yards out, also on mowed grass. I didn't say a word to him in between birds except my usual cues for a mark. I'm working really hard on keeping my mouth shut!


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Learned something new today. Set up a really long blind (200 yards) that was parallel to a barbed wire fence. It never occurred to me that this might pose some problems. If anything though I thought it would cause her to fly because he wants to run into those poky things? 

Well she was sucked big time. She kept rounding her casts right into the fence. So I would call her back a little using attrition and send again. Her first few steps were always fine, but then she'd round herself back into the fence. I was very close to scrapping it and trying something different--changing the picture, walking up on it, etc. Scout was getting frustrated and let out an indignant woof. My friend told me to cast her pretty off and away from the fence to get her rolling...and I did, and she listened. Relief. I let her roll awhile even though it wasn't perfectly on line then when I sat her I made sure I told her she was a good girl. After that it was relatively easy to get her on the blind now that she had gone the distance finally.

I put her up, then re-ran it at the end to see if maybe she had learned to fight the suction. She did do much better, however it wasn't perfect casting and when she got to the end she went too far and went right through the barbed wire fence. Finally got her back and she picked up the blind. Checked her over really good and no cuts from the wire thank goodness. My friend's dogs have apparently needed staples for being too gregarious with a barbed wire fence.

So the question that keeps mulling in my mind...why on Earth are they sucked toward a barbed wire fence? It is full of poky wires!!

Aside from that did two marks that were smooth and uneventful...one really long one that Scout loved (she loves to run).


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Quick session today, rolling terrain with cover, three singles, three blinds. I felt like in all three blinds Slater initially headed roughly at where there had been a mark but he handled easily away from it and on the right line. Things were groovy.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Still waiting for it to warm up for water blind work. We have started running water marks sandwiched by land marks to keep them warmer. Land blinds are going well, correcting for the rare pop, or the more common looping sit at distance, she don't seem to scallop quite as much, and I'm gaining more control at the long distances. 
Winter is marking doubles well. If she doesn't pin them, she has been setting up a smart short hunts.
We are definitely a work in progress.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

hollyk said:


> Still waiting for it to warm up for water blind work.


Ugh, isn't it the pits?? It is killing me our test is next weekend and we couldn't get in the water this week it has been too cold.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Where is your test held? I may try to attend next year if it's anywhere near the big city. Give us an excuse to visit our friends there.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Payette so very close. Then the following week is Fruitland/Payette.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

That is very close in fact Cindy's mom and dad live in Payette so that may be doable next year. Maybe I'll have someone ready to enter.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

There's also two more in Payette and Fruitland in June this year....bring Tag...


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

That's pushing it a bit. But it would be fun to watch!


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Beautiful day in here today. This morning we trained a bit. Land double, with a couple of blinds. Then since it was actually warm and sunny (55+) a couple of short water blinds and reviewed what little water blind work we know. Winter did great, whistle stops in water and turned the correct way with casts. Good Girlie.
Came home and worked in the yard. It was a golden day.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

GoldenSail said:


> Learned something new today. Set up a really long blind (200 yards) that was parallel to a barbed wire fence. It never occurred to me that this might pose some problems. If anything though I thought it would cause her to fly because he wants to run into those poky things?
> 
> Well she was sucked big time. She kept rounding her casts right into the fence. So I would call her back a little using attrition and send again. Her first few steps were always fine, but then she'd round herself back into the fence. I was very close to scrapping it and trying something different--changing the picture, walking up on it, etc. Scout was getting frustrated and let out an indignant woof. My friend told me to cast her pretty off and away from the fence to get her rolling...and I did, and she listened. Relief. I let her roll awhile even though it wasn't perfectly on line then when I sat her I made sure I told her she was a good girl. After that it was relatively easy to get her on the blind now that she had gone the distance finally.
> 
> ...


A dog's natural tendency is to want to square off towards any defined edge whether it be uncut cover in a field, fencrow, or endge of a pond. We also tend to do a lot of running them to the dge of things when they are first learning blinds, so then we have to teach them to resist that suction.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

GoldenSail said:


> Learned something new today. Set up a really long blind (200 yards) that was parallel to a barbed wire fence. It never occurred to me that this might pose some problems. If anything though I thought it would cause her to fly because he wants to run into those poky things?
> 
> Well she was sucked big time. She kept rounding her casts right into the fence. So I would call her back a little using attrition and send again. Her first few steps were always fine, but then she'd round herself back into the fence. I was very close to scrapping it and trying something different--changing the picture, walking up on it, etc. Scout was getting frustrated and let out an indignant woof. My friend told me to cast her pretty off and away from the fence to get her rolling...and I did, and she listened. Relief. I let her roll awhile even though it wasn't perfectly on line then when I sat her I made sure I told her she was a good girl. After that it was relatively easy to get her on the blind now that she had gone the distance finally.
> 
> ...


A dog's natural tendency is to want to square off towards any defined edge whether it be uncut cover in a field, a fencerow, or the edge of a pond. We also tend to do a lot of running them to the edge of things when they are first learning blinds, so then we have to teach them to resist that suction.


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