# When will Dakota fill out?



## katelyn29 (Jul 21, 2010)

When I was trying to decide what age to get Dakota neutered I did some research to get people's opinion about whether or not do it pretty young, or wait a few extra months. One thing I read is that if you do it when they are still pretty young they may not fill out, (chest and head broden, etc.) I decided to neuter him at 5 months. Dakota is about 13 months old now, and he is very long, lean and leggy. I know they are still growing up until about age 2 or so, but just wondering if anyone knows more about this than me? Did I neuter him to young for him to reach his full male size or is he still too young to tell?


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## Muddypaws (Apr 20, 2009)

That was very young. It is best if you wait until they are 18 months or at least a year. He may not develop all the broad boned features of a male but he may still fill out more as he gets older. Darby had his broader features at a year but the difference between 1 year and 2.5 years is pretty big.

Can you post a picture of him, I would love to see Dakota.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

katelyn29 said:


> When I was trying to decide what age to get Dakota neutered I did some research to get people's opinion about whether or not do it pretty young, or wait a few extra months. One thing I read is that if you do it when they are still pretty young they may not fill out, (chest and head broden, etc.) I decided to neuter him at 5 months. Dakota is about 13 months old now, and he is very long, lean and leggy. I know they are still growing up until about age 2 or so, but just wondering if anyone knows more about this than me? Did I neuter him to young for him to reach his full male size or is he still too young to tell?


There is a debate somewhere on the forum on this matter... 

I think you will know by the time he's 24 months. My (intact) guy never was long/lean/leggy, but that could have been his genes as well.


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## katelyn29 (Jul 21, 2010)

Yeah I also thought it was a little young, but there was so much debate on the issue when I was looking it up and I just couldn't decide which way to go. I decided I couldn't choose one side so I just did it go get it over with because it was apparently not as tramatic on a young puppy a lot cheaper. The only thing I read that was pretty much agreed on was that he would never cock his leg while peeing, which doesn't bother my one bit. I know all breeds are different, but my brother has a jack russell, very different from goldens I know, but he is very upset that he didn't get him neutered right away like I did with Dakota. Of course he shows a lot more dominance and aggression than Dakota. 

The first and last pics aren't that recent, I'll have to take some more.


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## cisobe (Feb 22, 2010)

Tobey will be getting neutered in a couple weeks (he will be a little over 8 months old). I wanted to wait longer but he's starting to mark outside, and I don't want it to transition indoors. He's also been a little more agressive lately, not sure if it's just him being bratty. I can handle him, but i'm worried about my wife and when my niece comes to visit.

As far as filling out, i think it has a lot to do with genes too. Tobey is skinny and lanky, but that's how his father was too. His father was about 3 or 4 years old, and has a similar build as Tobey, similar head size and broadness (is that a word?). His grandfather on the other hand was a bit larger, and head broader features, he was 7 years old. I guess we'll see, but Tobey is scheduled to get neutered early next month, if he doesn't fill out, that's fine with us, as he will be the same dog to us, no matter what he looks like...


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## katelyn29 (Jul 21, 2010)

cisobe-Yes I agree I will love Dakota no matter what, that is why we decided to go ahead and do it early on. I guess I am just getting too anxious to see him blossom into a man and curious to see if getting him neutered that young did have an effect on his size. His dad was pretty broad but do they mostly take after their fathers? what about the moms? cause to me he looks so much like her over his dad.


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## cisobe (Feb 22, 2010)

I would assume being a male, they would look a bit more like their fathers as males tend to be larger, have broader sholders and heads, etc. But, I think it really depends, as I said, Tobey's father wasn't as big, and broad as his grandfather, so it just really depends...


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## firedancer722 (Apr 12, 2010)

I've been wondering about this too for my boy! Everywhere we go, people say "gosh, your dog's got a huge head!" But then, it's like the rest of his body just doesn't match up quite yet. He's got kinda thin, lanky legs. But I am hoping that in time, he will broaden out a bit. I don't know exactly how old he is, but with vet and trainer estimates, I'm thinking about 13-14 months. He was neutered somewhere around 9 months old. Guess we'll just have to wait and see!


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

It depends a lot on genetics. Was Dakota's dad filled out, nice head, good rib spring? If not, it is unlikely that he will have it. Yes, you neutered even earlier than what vets recommend. Usually 6-7 months is when the vets push for spay/neuter. Our breeder recommends waiting 2 years for full development if the owner can handle the dog.


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## animallover (Jul 18, 2010)

Does anyone know when to spay females?


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## katelyn29 (Jul 21, 2010)

Well the Vet actually recommended 4 months, but we decided to wait a little big longer, I know not much.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

katelyn29 said:


> Well the Vet actually recommended 4 months, but we decided to wait a little big longer, I know not much.


 
You're not going to like me for this - but I'd change vets. I know someone on the forum who got it done around that early though due to upcoming medical issues and her girl is still beautiful. If my vet recommeded 4 months I would have found another vet cause I think that's just nuts but that's just my uneducated opinion.


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## Muddypaws (Apr 20, 2009)

animallover said:


> Does anyone know when to spay females?


My breeder suggests waiting until after the first cycle for females and 18 months for males. It has to do with the secondary sex hormones that control the long bone growth. The hormones also play a part in how the male and female develop their sex characteristics (girls look more like girls and boys look more like boys).

Darby looks just like his dad and had a big head and a stockier frame even as a young puppy. Kirby looks a lot like her mother, maybe a little taller and longer. She was spayed at 7 months (I didn't want to go through the cycle) and I wanted the longer hair (a female will have longer hair when spayed early and more male characteristics). Again, this is according to my breeder. As stated much depends on the genetics.


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## 58loosy (Apr 18, 2010)

I spayed Lucy and all my females at 6 mos. I was told by a breeder they won't get full size if you don't wait. She is small and beautiful and it is fine with me. She is only a yr. so we'll see.


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## Bell (Jan 23, 2010)

Oh my,you guys spay/neuter SO early!Here noone/no vet does that before the second year for the males,otherwise they won't fill out,we're told.And it's logic,come to think of it.Hormones play vital role in the development of a young organism.4-5 months-they are still tiny puppies still at that age.
Anyway it has lots to do with genetics.My guy has been very broad-chested since his fifth month,but his head is still bulking up.The vet said it will fill out in few months and it has started to.So it's very individual.
Your boy is very very cute!He'll be a handsome dog anyway.


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## C's Mom (Dec 7, 2009)

Ok, now I'm really confused because in another thread a while back (will try to find it) the concensus was that altering the dog does not bring about a difference in size...so which is it?

Edit: Ok, let me amend my post. In the other thread (slim/trim senior golden pics) the discussion was around altering and weight issues.


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## OrdinaryEllen (Jun 20, 2010)

*I'm mulling this over too*

Piper is a little over one year old (dob 8/15/09)

At our eight month check up, the vet tech asked if I wanted to go ahead and make an appointment for neutering.

My vet wants me to wait until around sixteen months.

I want to wait until sixteen months, but would feel even better at the 18 month mark. We golden owners are a group of natural born worriers, aren't we ? !!!

As for females being spayed, I've always heard to wait until after the second heat, but I'm sure there's an expert on this wonderful forum with a little better idea about this.


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## katelyn29 (Jul 21, 2010)

I asked the Vet about waiting vs. not waiting he said it is more personal preference and that some vets think its better to wait other think there is no difference. It took me a while to decide whether or not I was going to wait and I did a lot of research and I was looking up specifically GR's and found that it was pretty much split down the middle. The only real downfalls I came up with was that he wouldn't cock his leg, and he may not reach average size of other male dogs and have all the qualities he would if he were to have males hormones.

When I took Dakota to the trainer she didn't think anything was wrong with doing it at 5 months either.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

Edit: Ok, let me amend my post. In the other thread (slim/trim senior golden pics) the discussion was around altering and weight issues. 

One thought is when you neuter/spay the dog (no more hormones) it may slow down their metabolism. Once the metabolism slows down (at this point the dogs are aging no longer pups) many owners do not make an adjustment to the food intake. This causes weight gain over time. 
_If the owner keeps a good tab on their dog and notices that their dog is gaining weight and makes an adjustment (smaller food intake) this will not happen._
_Most owners don't keep that good of tabs on their dogs weight and don't notice the weight gain until the dog is obese._
_Dogs gaining weight imo is not a good reason not to spay/neuter. Or not to do it early, as adjusting food intake will solve the problem._

_Early spay/neuter *may* cause the bones not to close at the proper time. This would cause the dog to be longer/taller. This is different than the weight discussion._

_IMO, According to the information out there, it is better to wait as long as possible before spaying/neutering as the risk to the cancers prone to goldens is higher in those that are spayed and neutered earlier. _

_With females though waiting does then pose the risk of mammory cancer risk being higher._

_Each owner needs to weigh the risks to their individual dog (follow their breeders contract) and make the best informed decision they can make._

_Early spay/neutering is all about not trusting the owner to keep their dog from either getting pregnant or making another dog pregnant. This is why many vets, trainers etc are so into early spay/neuter._


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