# Pulling woes



## Penny'smom (Mar 3, 2007)

As much as I shamelessly brag about Penny's recall, her rude behavior on the leash is our dirty, shameful secret.

I have read the pulling thread. Here's my challenges with her. She is treat aggressive and will begin to chomp fingers to get the treat. When she starts to get chompy, the lesson switches from good girl for not pulling to ah-ah, be nice about treats.

She's perfectly content to stand at the end of the leash when I stand like a tree. Perfectly will to catch up, pass and go to the end of the leash and pull in the new direction.

I had her at the horse show today and she was so obnoxious and excited that I finally put her in the camper so I didn't have to deal with her. She was absolutely MAD with excitement, toe nails trying to grab a foothold on the cement, her body at a 45 degree angle.

When I worked to get her to calm down I made her sit (had to make her by lifting chin up until she sat). She then would act like she got caught in the cookie jar and would try to sneak way. I just couldn't get her in a learning mode.

She is 6, goes everywhere with us. Is socialized at a lot of horse shows, campgrounds, playgrounds. Except for recall, she refuses to obey when she get distracted OR STUBBORN. She'll even refuse treats if she has to in order to disobey. 

I'm at my wit's end with this. She nearly pulled me over a couple of times. How embarrassing to be the lady with the obnoxious/implusive Golden. She'll just attempt to take off when she sees someone, like I'm not even there.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

We have had great success with Cody with this harness. It is attached at the front near their sternum, so pulling simply turns them around. It's based on reins on a horse and developed for just that pulling problem. And with Cody, he not only pulls to beat the band, but also has spinal/neck issues which I certainly didn't want to harm. http://www.softouchconcepts.com/ Didn't take but a couple "walks" for him to be in a nice heel position.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I adore my Easy Walk harnesses. They work just like the one that Penny and Maggie's Mom suggested. Jasmine is my constant puller and she never pulls with the harness on. It is wonderful! I even get compliments on how nicely they walk. lol


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## Penny'smom (Mar 3, 2007)

Penny has a regular harness, but she doesn't learn to give up pulling. Today, I'd left her harness at home and her pulling is so much worse than before.

I'm looking for ways to get her interested in being obedient, excited about obedience and praise rather than her feeling she's in trouble when I correct her.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Penny'smom said:


> Penny has a regular harness, but she doesn't learn to give up pulling. Today, I'd left her harness at home and her pulling is so much worse than before.
> 
> I'm looking for ways to get her interested in being obedient, excited about obedience and praise rather than her feeling she's in trouble when I correct her.


Regular harnesses that attach on the back actually encourage the pulling while these other harnesses attach in the front.


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## Merlins mom (Jun 20, 2007)

I agree about the easy walk harness! It truly does make walking a pleasure. If you get the harness, pick up a light weight leash to go with it. Our leather leash is heavy and and got annoying bouncing around.


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## Merlins mom (Jun 20, 2007)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Regular harnesses that attach on the back actually encourage the pulling while these other harnesses attach in the front.


The first harness we bought attached from the back. It was like trying to hold onto a wild boar! LOL!


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Merlins mom said:


> The first harness we bought attached from the back. It was like trying to hold onto a wild boar! LOL!


That really cracked me up !!!!! I know that feeling all too well ( with my springer)


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## 3459 (Dec 27, 2007)

I'm really curious about some of the trainers' responses to the harnesses that attach in the front. We went to a gentle leader for my 11-month old female at the request of our first trainer. It works great (except Chessie hates it) when she's wearing it. With the gentle leader on, she heels great. It seems to me, though, that Chessie pulls harder than ever now on the rare occasions when she isn't on the gentle leader. The wild boar description is accurate. :uhoh: She goes bonkers with excitement when she sees someone or something she wants. I have found that a wild 50 pound pup can whip me every which way. She responds well to treats and training, but not to a leash. My fear is that I will never get her out of the gentle leader unless I find another way to help her calm down, and that she will be an adult doggie putting me through what Penny'smom is going through. Trainers, thoughts on the harnesses that attach in front at the sternum, or other tricks to calm down the little wild beasties?


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## Penny'smom (Mar 3, 2007)

I would like it if Penny passed her CGC test and for that she absolutely MUST walk on a loose leash with a plain collar. I don't want to use gadgets that don't allow pulling. I want her to learn to not pull. I think the flexi leash is going to have to be trashed. I think it has taught her to pull.

We just had a session out front on the sidewalk. Very few distractions. She was okay about the treats but acted like her whole world had crashed down around her. She looked down the whole time. When I stopped and asked her to sit, she was very slow if she sat at all. About 1/2 the time I had to lure her into a sit with a treat above her nose. 

I would hope for more enthusiasm as we go along.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

DaMama said:


> I'm really curious about some of the trainers' responses to the harnesses that attach in the front. We went to a gentle leader for my 11-month old female at the request of our first trainer. It works great (except Chessie hates it) when she's wearing it. With the gentle leader on, she heels great. It seems to me, though, that Chessie pulls harder than ever now on the rare occasions when she isn't on the gentle leader. The wild boar description is accurate. :uhoh: She goes bonkers with excitement when she sees someone or something she wants. I have found that a wild 50 pound pup can whip me every which way. She responds well to treats and training, but not to a leash. My fear is that I will never get her out of the gentle leader unless I find another way to help her calm down, and that she will be an adult doggie putting me through what Penny'smom is going through. Trainers, thoughts on the harnesses that attach in front at the sternum, or other tricks to calm down the little wild beasties?


I am not sure, if the Gentle Leader is working for you, you would want to stop using it eventually. Although, I prefer the harness to the head halter. I don't plan on walking my dogs with their flat collars, ever. Especially since they walk so wonderfully with them and there is one of me and 3 of them.

I do use a martingale in training classes and the boys do quite well with the martingales. But I also wear them out before class starts so that they are calm before we go in.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Penny'smom said:


> I would like it if Penny passed her CGC test and for that she absolutely MUST walk on a loose leash with a plain collar. I don't want to use gadgets that don't allow pulling. I want her to learn to not pull. I think the flexi leash is going to have to be trashed. I think it has taught her to pull.
> 
> We just had a session out front on the sidewalk. Very few distractions. She was okay about the treats but acted like her whole world had crashed down around her. She looked down the whole time. When I stopped and asked her to sit, she was very slow if she sat at all. About 1/2 the time I had to lure her into a sit with a treat above her nose.
> 
> I would hope for more enthusiasm as we go along.


Both my boys have their CGC and Danny was only 1 when he got his. He walked loose leash when I needed him to, but the harness makes every day walking much more enjoyable.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

I do understand the desire to eventually wean them off the gadgets (although I can also understand the position of someone who is perfectly content continuing to use them). I'm definately not a "trainer" and my experience is very limited but I'll throw in my 2 cents to keep the conversation moving until someone who knows better can chime in  I think the proper way to take advantage of the "gadget" (whether it's a prong collar, a gentle leader, an easy walker harness, or wahtever other training aids we use) is to not solely depend on the gadget. Let me explain that better... let's say your dog is wearing one of those harnesses to keep him/her from pulling. You should take advantage of your dog's inability to go nuts and focus on giving commands and rewarding proper behavior. In other words, don't just be content that the dog isn't pulling... maybe ask for a neater "heel" position, or ask the dog to sit whenever you stop walking... things that make your dog's focus switch to you. Then as you find you are relying less on the gadget to keep the dog in line and he/she is paying attention to you somewhat consistently try using a flat collar in a comparitively quiet setting. Over time work up to more challenging settings with more distractions. Hope that helps at least a little. Good luck!!

Julie and Jersey


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## Penny'smom (Mar 3, 2007)

Very good advice, Jersey's mom.


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## 3459 (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks so much for the replies and good information. Chessie and I will keep on pluggin". I've managed to get pretty crazy about the pup.


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

Sounds jus like my Honey on leash. I somethin think she is one of th Budwieser clydesdales in disguse! If she sees a cat--gracious, she is all but dragging me. She is gentle as a lamb taking food or treats from you. I hadn feed her sometimes just because I like to hand feed the grls occasionlly and they seem to enjoy it.


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## happyjoy (May 2, 2008)

Hi Penny'smom

Sounds like you have two completely different exercises to work on here. I would firstly start working on being gentle with the food for attention. If you begin by having her sitting and the second she looks at you for attention say 'good' and treat. Do this in a block of 5 so she gets the hang of the game. Next, work on the 'no reward marker'. With this exercise you hold the treat in front of her. If she is trying to get the treat out of your hand say 'oh, oh' and wait until she sits back looking at you. Immediately she stops mouthing your hand reward her and say 'good'. You may need to work on this for a little time til she gets the hang of it. But as she gets the idea of the game for 'no reward marker' and realises she only gets the treat when she is not mouthing you could then transfer that to when you are walking on the lead.

So, to use it for walking you would have the treat in your hand and while she is jumping up biting use your 'oh, oh' and immediately she gets down and stops she gets the reward. You may only be able to start by taking a few paces at a time. If you get her attention for a couple of paces and she doesn't jump or mouth then reward. If she walks in front and starts pulling use 'oh, oh'. At this point stop, get her attention and then back to your side, reward and off you go again. 

Another thing you can try is to change direction quickly so she never quite knows where you are going. If she is in front turn quickly and go back in the opposite direction - don't wait for her - just keep walking. Throw in some left and right turns also. This will confuse her and might make her more attentive. Or when she starts pulling just stop - get her back - her reward is going forward and the more she pulls the more of a reward she gets. Teach her that she only goes forward when she is not pulling.

These are only suggestions. Try them and see what works for you. Some things work for some dogs and not others. You might find you may need to modify these to what suits you. Hope it helps.

As far as the collars go - personally I think that with these exercises she should be fine on a normal soft/leather collar and lead. Harnesses can tend to encourage pulling - it's what they use for sled dog pulling. And I would keep away from any sort of choke chain collar or prong collar. I just don't believe they are necessary for a goldie. My personal opinion only.


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## Penny'smom (Mar 3, 2007)

Thank you, Happy Joy. I feel the same about collars as you do.

My biggest problem with Penny is that she can be a '10' on the excited scale and never come down. It isn't just energy because in play, she's really a low energy dog...more of a chewer of sticks than a chaser of sticks, likes to lay in the shade. This makes her pulling a '10' when she's excited.

We can practice 'nice walkies' at home, in the village, even at the malls, but as soon as we get somewhere exciting...like the horse shows, her excitement becomes a 10 and the pulling along with it. I was sitting in the stands yesterday and she decided to go see someone. I nearly got pulled out of my seat and UP the stairs.

Her walks around home and the village are on a flexi-lead and she's quite nice about it...until, that is, you want her to walk in or near the heel position. She'll start with the pulling to get back 'out there'. Is this a streak of independence? Or habit from being 'out there'? Or what?

Although yesterday, she never stopped pulling until she got where she wanted to go: another dog, a person, etc. I don't think I've ever thrown in the towel the way I did and just put her away because I couldn't handle her anymore. And even when we got home, I had kind of a sour feeling towards her. Kind of a 'yes, well, pretty is as pretty does' sort of feeling.


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## Penny'smom (Mar 3, 2007)

I just thought of something else. I'm about to go the barn to feed horses. Normally I just open the car, give her the release word okay and she jumps out to run and check things out.

Today, I'm going to practice walking on the leash from the car to the barn(I expect her to want to pull) and see what happens. It about 400 feet, so I should be able to get some training in.


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## Penny'smom (Mar 3, 2007)

I just got back from the barn. She was pully on me but I worked with her and got some positive response. UNTIL, I realised she hadn't done her morning 'business'...she always does that at the barn. So I let her go. She had so much pent up excitement that she gave the cat what for much more than usual. (For all the cat lovers: he loves her and doesn't mind at all and almost always stops mid-chase and shows her his belly).

I did my chores and by the time I got back to the car she was already in it waiting for me.

I did a little on the leash at home, getting the mail, sitting and taking treats nicely and a bit of zig-zag walking to get her attention.

I saw a spark of "Oh, I'm not in trouble after all. This is a little fun, like a game and I get treats". She still goes into a cowering mode but I saw a little bit of spark of enthusiasm.

She's a complicated dog. She's joyful and excited but only when she's in charge. When she gets corrected, she's shy, submissive and usually pees...still at 6 years old. She's aggressive in her play, yet gets her feelings hurt easily. Is easily exciteable, yet cool and calm with babies and kids. Loves to meet new people and then finds them boring in 2 seconds...on to the next new person. Likes other dogs, yet is shy and afraid. She wants to be petted, but will leave if I try to cuddle. I've never had a dog like her. It's been an adventure, that's for sure.


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## lovethemgoldens (May 17, 2008)

For her pulling problems, try the Gentle Leader Head Halter.
It controls their head so that they won't keep pulling. If she keeps pulling anyway, whether you have to drag her just a little bit or not, Immedietly turn in another direction and start walking. If she is by your side - even for just a second, give her a treat RIGHT then. Eventually she will understand that walking by your side gives her rewards and eventually you won't have to give her treats anymore (if she doesn't actually like to eat the treats, try giving her pieces of chicken or something like that). 
By the way, you would want to stop using it eventually and it doesn't aways work on ALL dogs.

For the treat problem, get "the" tool. What is "the" Tool? Well, It's a spoon. 
Take a metal spoon, put the treat at the end of the spoon and hold the top end with your thumb and when they go to CHOMP right down, they will hear and feel a CLUNK.
after doing that a few times, try using your hands and she will probably be easier on you.

Good luck!!!!


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## lovethemgoldens (May 17, 2008)

Jersey's Mom,

I do know a way to get them to heel easily. 

Create and Imaginary Square (or Rectangle if needed), stop at the corners and when the dog is completely distracted, start walking towards the next corner (make sure you are in a semi - distracting area). Praise when the dog is next to you and looking at you. 

Do NOT use the command heel until the dog knows what it means. When you stop, and the dog stop and looks at you, praise Immedietly and give a treat (if you can).

Do this for about 15 minutes a day, outside in your drive way or in a quiet street (well, where there won't be many cars) and make sure that no one else is there but you (as in one of the dog's other owners).

Eventually you can start taking them to more distracting places and have more people that own the dog, not just you come out and see how the dog does then.


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## happyjoy (May 2, 2008)

The trouble with the gentle leader is that people do not use it correctly. This can do a lot of damage to the dog's neck if jerked or pulled suddenly - it should not be used like a normal lead and collar. If you are going to use one then make sure the dog is guided around and no jerking occurs which can cause damage.

Pennysmom - it sounds like you are doing great with the exercises you have taken on. Keep on with the 'oh,oh' (no reward marker) and make a game of it. It may take some time for her to understand.

That barn exercise was good - if you can do a few minutes of training there and then give her a life reward of 'free' or 'play' - but it's on your terms not hers.

Her pulling is a behaviour that is established and if there is no reason for it to change then it won't. If you can give her a reason by using high value treats or just stop and don't give her the reward of going forward until she is at your side then the behaviour will change.

Can you get some training in at the horse shows? I know she is at peak excitement level but if you can just get in a couple of minutes of focus and attention from her and reward for that and after time extend that to short training sessions so you have better control.

If she is starting to switch on with the 'game' playing then keep on with it. That's great. Maybe she is confused with some signals you are giving her and that is why she seems a little unsure. A great book to get hold of is Karen Pryor's 'Don't Shoot the Dog". 

As far as cuddles go, if she doesn't like it then don't do it. Dogs have 4 legs and no arms - cuddles are not a part of their communication system. Cuddling is a human thing and we put our human things onto the dogs. Some dogs just don't like it - if she responds to a pat on the chest then do that instead.

Keep up the good work!


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## lovethemgoldens (May 17, 2008)

Ack! I can't edit my post...


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## lovethemgoldens (May 17, 2008)

Ack! I can't edit my post...
There's something I messed up...


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Lovethemgoldens: I'm assuming the "mess up" is that you addressed it to me by mistake instead of Penny's Mom. No worries, I assumed as much. Actually, I'm glad that drew my attention to it... that's not a method I had heard of before. I like hearing about new and different things to catalogue away... Jersey's been super easy for me, but I'm betting my next dog will be much more challenging to make up for it! 

Julie and Jersey

PS~ There's a time limit on editing posts... I want to say it's something like 24 hours, but it might be less. I would guess that's why you can't get in to edit it.


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