# Any of the "boutique foods" actually worth consideration?



## SoCalEngr (Apr 11, 2020)

_*My Definition of "Boutique Food"
A small(er) supplier of dog food (okay, and "*_*others*_*", but I have "*_*a dog*_*") that typically emphasizes "*_*better ingredients*_*" and, most often, seems to be something-other-than-dry-kibble.*_

I've been looking at some of the "_boutique foods_". Obviously, if for no other reason than scale, these foods tend to be more expensive. But, has anyone found a boutique food that provides enough value to make the additional cost, if not "_reasonable_", at least "_something to consider_"?

Specific thoughts I've had, but have not answered for myself yet:

"_*Human grade food*_" - So what? I tend not to eat offal (_enjoyed liver-and-onions as a kid, and also enjoyed grilled beef heart_), but I'm sure some of it is quite nutritious. And, I'm sure there's quite a bit of "_human grade_" foods that are not good for us, much less our four-legged canine companions.
*Nutrition (General)* - I haven't seen any of the boutique foods that claim any compliance with WSAVA (_Western Small Animal Veterinary Association_) or AAFCO (_Association of American Feed Control Officials_) standards.
_*Nutrition (Specific)*_ - I also haven't seen any of the boutique foods that make any claims with-respect-to stage-of-life formulations, nor size-of-breed formulations. This may simply be due to scale, but still...
Your observations? Thoughts (beyond "_I'd never spend that kind of money on dog food_")?


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## granite7 (Oct 5, 2020)

I have been all over the place recently, trying to find a food that agrees with Cody and checks off my Vet’s requirements as well. We haven’t done extensive diet regimens to positively determine the cause, but his body does not handle chicken, or foods and treats with chicken. Trying to observe current concerns with DCM and BEG diets has been a real challenge while also avoiding chicken.

I know you like research, so I hope you enjoy the rabbit hole that will start with these links. Going in chronological order:









A broken heart: Risk of heart disease in boutique or grain-free diets and exotic ingredients


A recent increase in heart disease in dogs eating certain types of diets may shed light on the role of diet in causing heart disease. It appears that diet may be increasing dogs’ risk for heart disease because owners have fallen victim to the many myths and misperceptions about pet food.




vetnutrition.tufts.edu













It’s Not Just Grain-Free: An Update on Diet-Associated Dilated Cardiomyopathy


Dr. Freeman provides an update on diet-associated dilated cardiomyopathy in dogs




vetnutrition.tufts.edu













FDA Investigates Potential Link Between Diet & Heart Disease in Dogs


Latest update on the FDA’s investigation into reports of dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) in dogs eating certain pet foods.




www.fda.gov













Review of canine dilated cardiomyopathy in the wake of diet-associated concerns


Abstract. Dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) has been in the literature and news because of the recent opinion-based journal articles and public releases by regulator




academic.oup.com





The root cause will require additional research to identify, but for me, it is interesting to see that there is at least a casual linkage between these diets and DCM, regardless of the small percentage of the total population that is affected. My vet is amazing at keeping up with these things, and her advice to us has always followed current research. She still recommends several boutique brands, but I keep seeing chicken and/or legumes in the ingredients.

I also agree with what the first two articles opine about boutique foods. Just because a food contains ingredients that a human would enjoy does not mean that the combination of (and interaction thereof) ingredients will produce a healthy and balanced food for pups. The advice is sound: look for brands who make their own food, employ nutritionists, and participate in feeding trials.

We are now using Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Skin & Stomach and he is doing fantastic on it. Unfortunately, this is against Vet’s wishes (she does not recommend anything that says Purina) and Salmon is classified by some as an exotic ingredient. Unfortunately, nothing we have found yet checks all of the boxes.


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## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

A lot depends on what one considers boutique too. 

Just today a man stopped me told me all about his dog food company that is local and only sold locally, freeze dried and full of organ meats, quinoa, etc. I consider that boutique but I don't think I would use it. 

There is one that I've put a lot of consideration into: Sundays for Dogs. They're very transparent with how they meet or don't meet WSAVA guidelines and the company is owned by a VMD and her husband.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

You’ll find that people hold very strong opinions on this topic, including me. I have fed nothing BUT so called “Boutique foods” for the last 20+ years. ALL of them have a statement that, at a minimum, they are formulated to meet AAFCO standards for all life stages (it’s one of my baseline criteria), many have a veterinary nutritionist on staff who formulates their recipes, and I strongly believe these companies do a better job at making sure their meat comes from reputable sources and is carefully handled and refrigerated from slaughter to food.

Whether or not it’s “worth it” or not is a personal decision. But, for what it’s worth here are some links to information put out by resources I trust that you may want to investigate.

The Whole Dog Journal puts out a well-respected list of “approved” foods every year that many consider the “bible” of commercial foods to choose from. They do a good job of explaining why (or why not) a food makes their list. The list is not inclusive of ALL high quality kibble, so they encourage their readers to learn how to read a label for themselves. Historically, the main stream brands (Purina, Hills, etc.) do NOT meet the established criteria. The most recent list is usually only available to subscribers, but here is a link to one of their more recent articles: Whole Dog Journal's Approved Dry Dog Food List - Whole Dog Journal and you can find links to some of their older lists online (here’s one https://www.plnamiska.sk/user/3499/upload/ftp_client/Testy/granule2017 .pdf)

You may also find some good information about dog nutrition at a website called “Dog Aware” (I’m not allowed to link to it due to forum rules... something about them asking for donations).

I find Dog Food Analysis - Reviews of kibble a handy resource. I take their “ratings” with a grain of salt, but it’s a nice tool to quickly compare food ingredients, calorie counts and nutritional profiles.

I was trying to find a link to a good article about where the ”not human grade” meat and byproducts may be coming from (and why I view the “non-boutique” foods with suspicion), but I’m having trouble putting my hands on it. Here’s a link that gives the general gist of the concerns. Take it with a BIG grain of salt, but if even part of it is true, it does give one pause: The Shocking Truth About Commercial Dog Food. I’m sure some of your Google-fu will turn up similar articles. 😉


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

My simple observation?

When FDA released their ill-advised list of dog foods which they say were common factors behind DCM complaints.... what proceeded was a storm of hysteria and I think some "I told you so" stuff as well. Don't blame the "I told you so types, because many of them had not been switching foods and had been bullied all this time over feeding food from long trusted companies. 

But the other people! These were the worst bullies prior to DCM as far as telling people that PPP and other staid old brands were garbage food and people were killing their dogs with cancer by feeding it.... these people jumped ship like a flood of fleeing rats and they are now feeding PPP and telling everyone they are killing dogs with DCM by feeding anything else. 

And mixed in there, I see a lot of people who are a confused mess when it comes to what they feed their dogs - they wouldn't see what's wrong with impulsively switching foods and feeding fad diets if it hit them upside the head. Many of these people did not just feed one brand of food. They fed many. They played around with feeding raw. They followed all the fads in real time. The amazing thing is the newest fad is feeding foods like Pro Plan.  These are the people that made the DCM groups completely insufferable. Any kibble other than 4-5 brands were defined as "boutique". This even included some pretty big companies who have been around for ages and relatively trusted. They carry on about ingredients - while also telling people not to study ingredients lists.

My opinion is boutique would be a brand of food that has a small distribution size, is very local, has very limited resources for analyzing food and primarily touts selling points that are geared towards the types of people who buy health magazines at the grocery stores. 

Anyhoo. Talk to your dog's breeder about what they feed the dogs and keep your eyes open.

What bothers me is when people force feed dogs that the dogs are not thriving on. You can tell how good a dog food is by how well the dogs look and act while eating that dog food. 

The coats should be shiny, thick, healthy. The skin should not be prone to "allergies" or infections. Eyes should be bright and healthy. And gut health is the most important thing. Dogs should not be walking away and leaving their food. Nor should they be fed a lot of extra stuff so they can digest whatever food they are eating. 

And blind loyalty to brands is part of the problem.


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## Hildae (Aug 15, 2012)

This is an issue I've been wrestling with. We've been feeding Nature's Logic for years. It's a "boutique" food I guess, but it isn't grain free and it's been through AAFCO feeding trials. It doesn't meet WSAVA guidelines, I guess because they don't keep a nutritionist on staff full time? I'm not sure. If anyone knows I'd like to know. 

Basically I've been terrified, am I feeding a bad food unknowingly? Is it a good food? It "looks" good by ingredients and the AAFCO trials etc. I haven't seen it turn up on any of the lists of foods that are implicated in DCM. Our new puppy came with a recommendation to feed PPP. I've never been one to judge what someone else was feeding, but Purina always scares me with all the recalls and the ingredients lists don't thrill me. All the WSAVA foods seem poor by ingredients, Hills, Iams, Eukanuba, Purina, and Royal Canin. (RC especially bothers me, the first ingredient is rice!) I told this all to my vet recently, darn near in tears because I love my dogs so so much that I want to do the RIGHT THING, whatever that is. My vet said that over the years she has asked her clients what they feed their dogs and she said many of her clients pets that lived the longest ate Purina food. 

I just wish there was a cut and dried "we figured this DCM issue out and this is what you should/should not do." I just want to do right by my dogs.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Hildae said:


> Purina always scares me with all the recalls


I don't think Purina has had any recalls....


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## Pytheis (Mar 17, 2016)

Megora said:


> I don't think Purina has had any recalls....


Yes, they have.








Purina Pet Food Recall History


Check recent pet food recall information for the Purina brand line, which is made by the Nestlé Purina PetCare Company.




www.petful.com


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## Hildae (Aug 15, 2012)

It wasn't just their dog/cat foods. Their livestock feeds (rabbit comes to mind) have suffered several recalls. I'm not saying they aren't good, I'm just saying the recall history made me hesitant.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Hildae said:


> It wasn't just their dog/cat foods. Their livestock feeds (rabbit comes to mind) have suffered several recalls. I'm not saying they aren't good, I'm just saying the recall history made me hesitant.


Perhaps I was just thinking of Pro Plan... least that's what I've always heard, that there's never been recalls. 

I will say though that I've heard rumbles that there's been problems of late.... I wonder though if that's more of an issue of people feeding the food to their dogs like it's the last dog food left in the world despite it not agreeing with their doglets.


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## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

Tagrenine said:


> A lot depends on what one considers boutique too.
> 
> Just today a man stopped me told me all about his dog food company that is local and only sold locally, freeze dried and full of organ meats, quinoa, etc. I consider that boutique but I don't think I would use it.
> 
> There is one that I've put a lot of consideration into: Sundays for Dogs. They're very transparent with how they meet or don't meet WSAVA guidelines and the company is owned by a VMD and her husband.


I ordered a box today to use as treats, as there is no way I'll be able to afford feeding as a regular diet (159 a month for one dog 🤪) , but I also talked to the company. They currently are working on other diets and once those are developed, they plan to start using third party labs to provide the papers and research to back up the claims. The current diet is 35% protein and 20% fat, which is on par or above par with performance diets by other companies and packing a whopping 550cal/cup. I asked if they have plans to develop any specific performance diet for the canine athlete or whether or not they had seen improved performance in canine athletes. The company responded with "Oooh, great question! We have not heard any specific feedback regarding canine athletes, but we have seen a great deal of feedback saying pups have more energy and generally see more youthful. We don't currently have plans to develop a canine athlete recipe, but I'm happy to pass the request along so that our vet and owners know that it is in demand!" 

I'm more specifically thinking of a diet with glucosamine and somewhat greater fat since their current base diet is already so calorie dense. I look forward to seeing what this company produces in the future if they're able to produce research papers.


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

granite7 said:


> I have been all over the place recently, trying to find a food that agrees with Cody and checks off my Vet’s requirements as well. We haven’t done extensive diet regimens to positively determine the cause, but his body does not handle chicken, or foods and treats with chicken. Trying to observe current concerns with DCM and BEG diets has been a real challenge while also avoiding chicken.
> 
> I know you like research, so I hope you enjoy the rabbit hole that will start with these links. Going in chronological order:
> 
> ...


Please be aware the 4th article you added, is authored by employees of BSM Partners, a consulting company hired by Zignature to formulate their food. The Journal of Animal Science printed a statement in July 2020 clarifying the authors links to BSM partners, despite them originally claiming no conflicts.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

Just coming back to respond to these specific statements:



SoCalEngr said:


> "_*Human grade food*_" - So what? I tend not to eat offal (_enjoyed liver-and-onions as a kid, and also enjoyed grilled beef heart_), but I'm sure some of it is quite nutritious. And, I'm sure there's quite a bit of "_human grade_" foods that are not good for us, much less our four-legged canine companions.


The issue is not so much whether the food is "human grade" or whether or not the food contains "by products," it's in _why _these animal products are deemed not fit for human consumption (but OK for pet food) and how these ingredients are handled when they are not headed for the human food supply. I think based on FDA rules, meat such as that which comes from "downed or diseased" animals (or other unhealthy animals that were not killed on the slaughter house floor), which is deemed not fit for human consumption, CAN be used in animal feeds, including pet food. There are reports (though I can't find independent confirmation) that "offal" (by-products) are sometimes picked up from the slaughter house floor and stored unrefrigerated in vast vats until they can be shipped to a pet food manufacturing facilities. They are then heated a high temperatures to hopefully kill any pathogens (and probably killing any nutrients in the process). So... when we are talking about "human grade" it's not about there not being a market for cow's tongue or chicken feet or lamb hearts in the human food chain, or about whether these ingredients can or can't form a healthy part of the canine diet, it's about how these items are sourced, handled and stored on their way to the pet food manufacturers. (_I fully admit that I know that some of these claims may fall into the category of "urban myth" but I've seen enough confirmation from trusted sources to feel there is a kernel of truth here._)



SoCalEngr said:


> *Nutrition (General)* - I haven't seen any of the boutique foods that claim any compliance with WSAVA (_Western Small Animal Veterinary Association_) or AAFCO (_Association of American Feed Control Officials_) standards.


I think the main reason that many of the so-called "boutique" foods don't comply with WASAVA is because it would require them to have a PhD in canine nutrition _on staff_... something that many of these smaller manufacturers simple can't afford. That does NOT mean that their recipes have not been formulated or approved by such an individual however. FWIW every "boutique" food I've ever fed my dog has at least had a statement along the lines of “provides complete and balanced nutrition for all life stages including growth of large size dogs... and is comparable in nutritional adequacy to a product which has been substantiated using AAFCO feeding tests.” FWIW the AAFCO feeding tests set a VERY low bar (small sample size, short duration, no more than X number of animals get ill or die, etc.).

_*Nutrition (Specific)*_ - I also haven't seen any of the boutique foods that make any claims with-respect-to stage-of-life formulations, nor size-of-breed formulations. This may simply be due to scale, but still...
[/QUOTE]
Again, as noted above, all the "boutique foods" I've fed my dogs carry such a notice (“provides complete and balanced nutrition for all life stages including growth of large size dogs... and is comparable in nutritional adequacy to a product which has been substantiated using AAFCO feeding tests”)


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## SoCalEngr (Apr 11, 2020)

pawsnpaca said:


> There are reports (though I can't find independent confirmation) that "offal" (by-products) are sometimes picked up from the slaughter house floor and stored unrefrigerated in vast vats until they can be shipped to a pet food manufacturing facilities.


When in high school, I worked on the afternoon clean-up crew at a local wholesale supply (providing meat products to the local restaurants and US Navy). While not dealing with offal (some of which is actually processed for human consumption, and I've consumed it over my lifetime), we had a bin in one of the cutting rooms called "the burger bin". Trimmings from breaking down the prime cuts into restaurant-quality products were tossed into this bin (mostly fat, but some actual meat that was being trimmed to "clean up" the product). This, in turn, was used to adjust the fat content of ground beef that was being made from some of the leaner, tougher cuts. 

And, yes, I still eat meat products! 😁


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## ChrisFromOC (Sep 19, 2018)

Tagrenine said:


> I ordered a box today to use as treats, as there is no way I'll be able to afford feeding as a regular diet (159 a month for one dog 🤪) , but I also talked to the company. They currently are working on other diets and once those are developed, they plan to start using third party labs to provide the papers and research to back up the claims. The current diet is 35% protein and 20% fat, which is on par or above par with performance diets by other companies and packing a whopping 550cal/cup. I asked if they have plans to develop any specific performance diet for the canine athlete or whether or not they had seen improved performance in canine athletes. The company responded with "Oooh, great question! We have not heard any specific feedback regarding canine athletes, but we have seen a great deal of feedback saying pups have more energy and generally see more youthful. We don't currently have plans to develop a canine athlete recipe, but I'm happy to pass the request along so that our vet and owners know that it is in demand!"
> 
> I'm more specifically thinking of a diet with glucosamine and somewhat greater fat since their current base diet is already so calorie dense. I look forward to seeing what this company produces in the future if they're able to produce research papers.


I had not heard of this product or company before, so thanks for sharing the name. Looks very interesting to me, as feeding high quality is probably the most important factor to me but also having ability to travel and/or board matters as well. I’ve been giving my golden a combo of kibble and Just Food For Dogs so that we can use primarily kibble when boarding or when refrigeration is not as convenient, so the easy storage of Sundays is interesting.


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## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

ChrisFromOC said:


> I had not heard of this product or company before, so thanks for sharing the name. Looks very interesting to me, as feeding high quality is probably the most important factor to me but also having ability to travel and/or board matters as well. I’ve been giving my golden a combo of kibble and Just Food For Dogs so that we can use primarily kibble when boarding or when refrigeration is not as convenient, so the easy storage of Sundays is interesting.


I ordered my first box and I'll will update on palatability when it arrives


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## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

So I did get the box of food and it looks exactly like pictured. The box and all. The food itself smells exactly like beef, seriously it's a little odd. He likes it quite a bit and it's proving to be more motivating than his other treats. Comes in a resealable bag. So far his stools have been firm and he doesn't seem to be having issues, even with it being so rich.


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