# Settle an argument for me...



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Your dog is easily 20 pounds overweight - and obese. And considering he is middle-aged and almost getting into the senior years, it's going to get tougher to keep him from gaining more weight. 

The gravy on top of the food and the extra stuff - would be fine if your feed him less. You have to evaluate how much kibble he is getting in his bowls. If your husband wants to feed extra stuff - then you feed less kibble.


----------



## FurdogDad (Mar 30, 2021)

I agree with the above. He definitely looks overweight in that photo.


----------



## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

Yes, unless your dog is VERY tall, I agree that he is likely almost 20lbs overweight. That’s the equivalent of a human man being about 60lbs overweight. It is going to shorten your dog‘s life and increases his chance of arthritis and other weight and age related diseases.

None of the things you mention are inherently bad for your dog, BUT they need to be a small “enhancement” to a balanced dog food. If you add too much, not only are the calories a problem, but you could introduce nutritional imbalances which will cause all sorts of other issues.

First thing I would do is figure out what your dog’s ideal weight is. Your vet should be able to help you there, but unless your dog is very tall or heavy boned, I would think he should weigh between 65-75 lbs. Then I would figure out how much kibble you need to feed him to reach and maintain his weight. Initially, you may need to stick pretty religiously to just kibble (no extras!) until he’s at his goal weight. Once he’s at his goal weight, then if your husband still feels strongly, you can play with giving him small amounts of “people food” as a healthy treat. Keep in mind that you will need to reduce the kibble or up his exercise to compensate for the extra calories, and there should never be so many “treats” that he’s not getting enough “real food” to maintain his health.

Another thing that needs to happen is that your husband needs to research what people foods should NOT be given to your dog. For instance, low/no sodium bone broth would be a healthy addition to your dog’s diet, BUT you need to watch the fat content and make sure it doesn’t contain onions. My dogs enjoy a bite of my PB&J sandwich, BUT I have to verify that the peanut butter doesn’t contain Xylitol and the the jelly doesn’t have grapes in it! My dogs enjoy most fruits, but I need to make sure that they never get grapes or raisins. Most vegetables are OK (except onion) but you need to watch for added salt or rich sauces. Etc. Take a look at the Dog Aware site for suggestions for healthy additions to a kibble diet, but first order of business right now is a serious diet!


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Should add - my dogs always finish my meals and get treats and leftovers. There's nothing wrong with that, but you have to feed less of the kibble to make up the difference.


----------



## iGirl (Oct 5, 2009)

Thanks for the feedback - he's only getting 2 (12oz) cups a day (Science Diet Adult) breakfast and dinner - that's it - we will cut back. He's probably up about 10 lbs from late 2019/early 2020 when we moved cross country - there was a dog park before where he would run and burn off a lot - but no such thing anywhere around here so he has become less active. He is a big guy - and very muscular. This pic was from 2019 - he used to run out and leap in the air to get the rebounding tennis ball! Anyway - I'm going to move to 2 small cups per day immediately and see how that works.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Use measuring cups (like the scoops) for flour, etc. That will be better.

Unless I'm wrong, your dog is actually getting the equivalent of 3 cups per day.

No offense, but he was overweight even in that jumping picture.

If a golden is 24" at the shoulder - doesn't matter how muscular or big boned he is, there is no reason he should weigh 80+ pounds. And there are a lot of people who get pretty comfortable about the dogs weighing that much because they see their own dogs all the time. I get it, in some ways I could be that way about my own dogs. 

But fact is when they get middle aged - the excess weight is really bad for them. You start noticing it with a dog that's more reluctant to do all the stuff he used to because he's injuring his back more and so on.


----------



## SoCalEngr (Apr 11, 2020)

iGirl said:


> The last vet visit we has he was 92lbs!


While I am not an expert, that seems like an unhealthy weight.



iGirl said:


> There isn't any sodium in the beef broth, but opinions are welcome to end this debate one way or the other!


Out of a desire for clarity, what is the topic of debate? That the snacks are unhealthy? Or, that the snacks are making your golden gain weight?

As others have noted, the snacks are not necessarily unhealthy. However, there are concerns about some "human foods" to be considered, and the snacks should be considered within-the-context-of your golden's overall daily nutrition.

Also as noted by others, the snacks, in-and-of-themselves, are not necessarily the cause of your golden's weight issues (although, they can't be helping, either). One piece-o'-the-puzzle that's glaringly missing from this discussion is "how much did your golden weigh before the holidays?". The inference is that the current excessive weight is solely due to these snacks.



iGirl said:


> Hubby started giving our 6 y/o male Obi "gravy" (beef broth) on his food back around the holidays and now won't stop.
> ..He's also giving him small bites of all kinds of other people foods from sauerkraut to green beans!


My question is "why?" Based on your comments, it sounds like six (6) years have gone without these treats, and then it all started...and now won't stop. What is the rationale for the snacks? Could the snacks be worked into a healthy daily nutritional routine?


----------



## iGirl (Oct 5, 2009)

SoCalEngr said:


> Out of a desire for clarity, what is the topic of debate?


Adding beef broth - as outlined in the very first line of the original post.



> That the snacks are unhealthy? Or, that the snacks are making your golden gain weight?


Snacks were never really the question, but an extra observation. He doesn't get that much really - and never anything that's toxic - we know better. As noted above we'll go with the meal size reduction and reduction of extras see how he progresses. As far as the broth goes it seems no one thinks there's any issue there, which is fine.


----------



## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

If it's two 12 oz. containers, that's three cups a day -- which is a lot for an adult dog who isn't far from being considered a senior. I'd tell my husband to cease and desist, or else. 

Seriously, why don't you gradually cut back your Golden's food where he is having a cup in the morning and a cup in the evening? By gradually, I mean over a period of a month and then just keep it there. You can get his weight checked to make sure he is gradually losing weight. Your dog will feel so much better and be more energetic.

Obi sure looks sweet. My son's cat is named Obi.


----------



## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

Is there somewhere he could swim? That would be a good way for him to exercise without hurting his joints til his weight comes down.


----------



## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

It's always better to keep a Golden on the leaner side, it's better for their hips, joints and overall health, similar to what any Medical Dr. tells a human. 

I feed 1 cup (8oz) of kibble twice a day-morning and night. 

I never have added anything to my guys kibble, you need to figure in the calories from any treats given too with the overall calorie intake of each day.


----------



## Coastal Pup (Jan 30, 2021)

If Obi was a puppy I would say to be careful because sometimes dogs get a taste of what else is out there besides kibble, and then they don’t want to go back to their ”boring” kibble. I have a coworker who always has to add treats and toppers to her little dog’s food because they’ve spoiled him so much that he wont accept his kibble on it’s own anymore! It sounds like that’s not the case for Obi as the human food comes separate from the kibble, so I would just watch the sodium and fat level in the broth and reduce the kibble as others have mentoned.

I love the name Obi! The house next to me in college had a little golden named Obi - college boys, they were a mess, so Obi would wander over to our yard to play quite often! Fond memories anytime I hear that name.


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Switch to a weight management food with lower calories per cup, that way you can keep feeding him 2 cups per day (total), but he will get less calories. Use an actual 8 oz measuring cup though, not a drink cup.

He is obese, and you are shortening his life by allowing him to stay that way. More excercise, fewer calories, get the weight off him. Ask the vet what his target weight should be. Golden Retrievers should be lean.


----------



## 3goldens2keep (Feb 13, 2019)

Your husband is killing your Golden! Is he ignorant or purposely trying to kill your dog? 

I react this way because I have seen/ heard this before and watching a 8-10 year old dog become crippled or blow out a joint due to ongoing excessive weight or die from the many added problems that can come with obesity is not fun. I suggest you develop the same 'rage' I have when you see this pup being abused. Maybe then you can do or say something that will soak in to you husband apparent think skull....

Now I feel better.....


----------



## Ontariodogsitter (Feb 23, 2020)

CUP = 8 oz
once you start measuring his food you will be stunned by how much you have been overfeeding.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

3goldens2keep said:


> Your husband is killing your Golden! Is he ignorant or purposely trying to kill your dog?
> 
> I react this way because I have seen/ heard this before and watching a 8-10 year old dog become crippled or blow out a joint due to ongoing excessive weight or die from the many added problems that can come with obesity is not fun. I suggest you develop the same 'rage' I have when you see this pup being abused. Maybe then you can do or say something that will soak in to you husband apparent think skull....
> 
> Now I feel better.....


I think this is OTT.  

Give it 4-6 years, and one of the biggest comforts owners may have are the memories of spoiling their dogs and making them happy. I'm probably more on the husband's side - though I'm less gravy on the kibble, and more making some meals extra special with wet food vs dry food, etc. And I personally think the food measurement is probably more of an issue. 3 cups is fine for a very young and active dog. Middle-aged dog who is slowing down needs less food.


----------



## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

For perspective, my very active, hard to keep weight on, intact boy was getting 3.5 cups/day at 2 years old. Now that he’s almost 3, and neutered he gets 2 cups/day. He’s 70 lbs and still incredibly fit and active and on a performance food. My dogs both get table scraps too, but if I even remotely feel like their waistline is changing I immediately cut back on kibble.


----------



## 3goldens2keep (Feb 13, 2019)

Megora said:


> I think this is OTT.
> 
> Give it 4-6 years, and one of the biggest comforts owners may have are the memories of spoiling their dogs and making them happy. I'm probably more on the husband's side - though I'm less gravy on the kibble, and more making some meals extra special with wet food vs dry food, etc. And I personally think the food measurement is probably more of an issue. 3 cups is fine for a very young and active dog. Middle-aged dog who is slowing down needs less food.


*Some 'Get it'! Many 'don't'! Their dogs pay the price...*


----------



## iGirl (Oct 5, 2009)

3goldens2keep said:


> *Some 'Get it'! Many 'don't'!*


Couldn't agree more! Regardless of posting multiple times about immediately correcting his diet, people can't seem to understand it and just keep ranting. ha ha


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

iGirl said:


> Couldn't agree more! Regardless of posting multiple times about immediately correcting his diet, people can't seem to understand it and just keep ranting. ha ha


Guess you feel better about your husband being told he's killing your dog with gravy.... while YOU are overfeeding your dog. OK then.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Ontariodogsitter said:


> CUP = 8 oz
> once you start measuring his food you will be stunned by how much you have been overfeeding.


when I send a litter of puppies home, I also send a cup home. I've had dogs back for grooming morbidly obese (like this dog is) and the people say 'we are only feeding a cup twice a day!' when in reality that cup is a solo cup and holds 2+ cups so dog is getting 4 c a day. So I got a ton of REAL cups and tell puppy people exactly what I wrote here. Cups are not equal.


----------



## Hildae (Aug 15, 2012)

Two 12oz cups a day is a lot of food and he's a "fluffy" dog. Generally a male golden (who's been bred to standard) shouldn't exceed 75lbs. My adult golden gets two 8oz cups (8oz is an actual cup) a day and maintains perfectly. 

I would switch to science diet weight control and cut the add ins.


----------



## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

My 3 year old (63 lbs) and my 10 month old (55 lbs) get 2-4 cups a day depending on their body condition score. My 6 year old goes through phases where she gets pudgy but since she is only 35 lbs and I don't feel comfortable cutting her food back any more than it already is (1/2-1 cup a day), we just get her active more. 

You can find some examples of the body condition score here:
Body-Condition-Score-Dog.pdf (wsava.org) 
Body Condition Assessment | Pet Circle

On a 9 count, I keep my girls around 4.

My rule of thumb is to cut food by 1/4 per meal for 10 days and re-evaluate. So if I'm feeding 3 cups (and I'm in the same boat as others who use actual measuring cups), and my girl is getting pudgy, I cut her down to 2.5 cups a day (each meal went from 1.5 cups to 1.25 cups) for 10 days and re-evaluate her weight. 

All my dogs get human food. Every morning they each get a full size carrot (in lieu of a crunchy snack bone) as their morning treat. If it's hot, I'll make watermelon pops in kongs, etc. But I don't add human food to kibble (unless it's an egg which is super rare).


----------



## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

iGirl said:


> Hubby started giving our 6 y/o male Obi "gravy" (beef broth) on his food back around the holidays and now won't stop. I'm insisting it's not good for him. He's also giving him small bites of all kinds of other people foods from sauerkraut to green beans! I'm afraid all this is very unhealthy and making him gain weight. The last vet visit we has he was 92lbs! There isn't any sodium in the beef broth, but opinions are welcome to end this debate one way or the other!


In addition to our Golden, we also own a small dog (toy poodle), and the food/small bites of other stuff is something we've learned to be very careful about because, with a dog that weighs 10 lbs. to start with, it doesn't take much to achieve obesity.

IMHO what you have is a combination of the two factors people have mentioned: overfeeding with kibble, plus added "other food". A cup is 8 oz., no more. If you're not using an actual measuring cup to dish out the kibble, you're likely overfeeding because most regular cups/mugs/whatever are bigger than 8 oz. For guidance, my highly active agility dog gets 2.5 cups a day (8 oz. cups) and no human food. I know from experience that the "little bites" of other food add up. You don't really notice it with a big dog, but with a small one, the adverse results come quickly. Our poodle put on a huge amount of weight last year, and it turns out my husband was giving him plates to lick after meals and tossing bits of vegetable or meat from time to time. Once we stopped that, the poodle lost weight without us having to cut his meal (which is already measured strictly). 

Your solution of cutting back the food to two properly measured cups and cutting out the extras is a good one. If you don't see results quickly, you might try a food such as this one: Hill's® Prescription Diet® Metabolic + Mobility Canine - dry
We've fed this to our poodle for the last several months after he suffered a serious back injury at the beginning of the year, and it's really helped him to lose weight and maintain a healthy weight.

Best of luck!


----------

