# My Golden Wont Swim??



## jwemt81 (Aug 20, 2008)

There is really no way to "make" a dog swim who doesn't want to. Some dogs are just bigger swimmers than others. It could be that there is something about that paticular pond that makes him feel uneasy. Maybe there is a strange smell or something else that is causing him to not want to swim. It may just be that he gets nervous when he realizes that he can't touch the bottom. I wouldn't push him. He may become more comfortable over time. Maybe he might feel a bit more comfortable if he were to get together for a swimming playdate with another dog who loves to swim.


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## Payton (Jan 23, 2009)

I had a 7 month old pup that went swimming this summer, He would only go in up to his elbows, and I did not want to force him in the water.. I tried food, toys, me.
Other dogs to entice him in.
Nothing worked,
Than we went a second time and he got a little braver, but I also put on a vest again, he went in further but ran out.
The third time I went, I threw a pine cone in the water and bam, he went after it, and that is what it took for him..


Never use force, that will only scare them. 
I did keep a long line on mine as well.
Swimming really tires them out and if they are not in good condition you must be careful as well.

I also made sure he did not sink, the first time he learned and was using his rear end as well to propel, once his life vets was off.]
I have seen one field line golden in the water after awhile almost drown. Not all dogs are born natural swimmers!!! Owner had to swim in and retrieve the retriever. Dog ended up swallowing alot of water and getting very sick.

I am sure others might have some advice as well.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

I would throw some waders on and get in the pond with the dog. Having you out that far might encourage him more. Good luck!


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

bjones93 said:


> When i take him to a pond he wont go in past where he can touch even if i throw treats in the water. if he jumps off a boat it doesnt bother him, but he wont go in from land. can someone tell me how i can make him swim?


What training has this dog had, specifically?

EvanG


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## bjones93 (Nov 23, 2009)

my dog hasnt had any training besides me teaching him to fetch and drop things, i figured hed be a good duck dog because he can fetch and swim (sometimes) when he is on land, its like he is scared to go in the water, but when he jumps off a boat its like he has no fear or hesitation. i only took him hunting once and we didnt even shoot anything. thanks everyone for giving me advice


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## photomel (Oct 15, 2009)

Porter was always a wader......he never would go further than he could touch bottom. It was never a huge issue other than we felt he missed out on some fun. I even tok him to hang out with swimming dogs, but he still wouldnt swim.


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## Judi (Feb 26, 2007)

bjones93 said:


> My dog is about 2 years and i took him on his first duck hunting trip. When we got set up i let him swim a little bit, he jumped right off the boat and had a blast. When i take him to a pond he wont go in past where he can touch even if i throw treats in the water. if he jumps off a boat it doesnt bother him, but he wont go in from land. can someone tell me how i can make him swim?


I had a Golden who wouldn't go in the water on her own.
I had the leash on her and one day I walked her in. She started to swim.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

bjones93 said:


> my dog hasnt had any training besides me teaching him to fetch and drop things, i figured hed be a good duck dog because he can fetch and swim (sometimes) when he is on land, its like he is scared to go in the water, but when he jumps off a boat its like he has no fear or hesitation. i only took him hunting once and we didnt even shoot anything. thanks everyone for giving me advice


In fairness to the dog, that's a bit like someone assuming you might do well as chairman of the Senate finance committee because you can count. There are a host of reasons for all the training that goes into preparing a hunting dog for his life's work. Most of the functions are our idea. It's only fair to train the dog to have adequate expertise in them.

My young golden went on his first hunting trips this season. He was large enough and old enough last season, but I opted not to take him because he didn't have enough training, or exposure to birds and water. This season he was ready, and has retrieved ducks and geese without difficulty. Yes, he's a nice dog. But he did this well because he was both a nice dog, and was trained for the job. I strongly recommend not hunting this dog until he's at least had a full course of Basics.

As a pro, I have advised many of my clients to do the same. 

*The components of Basics in order*​1) “Here”​2) “Heel & Sit”​3) “Hold”; automatically evolves to Walking “Hold, Heel, Sit”
4) “Fetch”; ear pinch, which evolves into Walking “Fetch” & “Fetch-no-fetch”, e-collar conditioning to “Fetch”
5) Pile work, including Mini-pile, Nine bumper pile; AKA Force to pile
6) 3-handed casting; teaching the 3 basic casts – “Back” and both “Over’s”, including 2-hands _“Back”_
*7)* Mini tee; includes *collar conditioning* to all basic commands, transferring to the _go, stop, cast _functions in micro dimension as preparation for the Single tee.* Also includes De-bolting*
8) Single tee
9) Double tee
*10)* Water tee with Swim-by

EvanG


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## bjones93 (Nov 23, 2009)

Thanks Even. I hate to say it but i don't know what some of the basic commands you're talkin about are. I would love to have my dog trained, but im 16 and can barely afford to pay for my truck and my parents can be a little tight sometimes. How much would a course like you suggested run me?


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Since he does like water, clearly, I would suggest you find another dog that loves to swim, and a place where YOU can swim, if possible. Few dogs can resist the temptation to follow their mom or dad, or another dog, into the water. Once he realizes it's safe and fun, you'll probably not be able to keep him OUT of the water.

My Whippet hates water, but in his old age, since I quit pushing the issue, he often swims- wades and takes a short swim. Then rolls in the sand 

My GSD puppy doesn't love it as much as I had hoped, but if it's hot out, he'll swim, follow me or the others, etc. He will go in for a ball, but only if he believes he has a fair shot at getting to it before any of the Goldens do. Starlite is a little this way- if he sees Holiday is ahead of him, he'll just give up LOL


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

What part of the country do you life in? Perhaps I can put you in touch with someone to train with.

EvanG


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## danni's_girl (Mar 24, 2009)

*Different approach*

Hi! I would suggest clicker training if you haven't already given it a try. It's a different approach than what has been suggested, but it's probably cheaper & I think more likely to create a more positive bond between you and your dog.

The key to clicker training is to break down the desired action into very small steps. First thing you want to do is clicker association to make sure your dog knows what's going on (if it were me, I would train him to do a simpler task with the clicker first). Get high-value treats (Natural Balance food rolls are almost always a hit!)

Once your dog is excited about clicker training-- doesn't take too long for them to begin to l-o-v-e it-- you can bring him to the pond and start shaping the behavior. 

Let me know if you want to know more-- I'm supposed to be doing hw right now :uhoh:

Good Luck!!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

If you would like some good instruction in clicker training, check out the website I posted with this thread. I downloaded the training sessions and the site is safe with some good information on starting to train with a clicker. 

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=66552

Also, I would suggest the waders, as was posted earlier, and getting in the pond with the dog, this will help ease their worries. Good luck!



danni's_girl said:


> Hi! I would suggest clicker training if you haven't already given it a try. It's a different approach than what has been suggested, but it's probably cheaper & I think more likely to create a more positive bond between you and your dog.
> 
> The key to clicker training is to break down the desired action into very small steps. First thing you want to do is clicker association to make sure your dog knows what's going on (if it were me, I would train him to do a simpler task with the clicker first). Get high-value treats (Natural Balance food rolls are almost always a hit!)
> 
> ...


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

You have a 2 year old dog, and want to hunt with him. The wader idea has real merit. But clicker training will tend to under whelm your 2 year old for hunting preparation. It's going to take real training, and it should begin soon!

EvanG


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## danni's_girl (Mar 24, 2009)

EvanG said:


> . But clicker training will tend to under whelm your 2 year old for hunting preparation. It's going to take real training, and it should begin soon!
> 
> EvanG


lol... what does that even mean?? Clicker training is meant to get the dog to think--much more work than having someone do it for them. The hardest part is that the handler also has to think hard on how to get their desired behavior...:

Why not use a clicker to tell when they're doing something right rather than using an e-collar for when they do something wrong? It makes logical sense that the dog will understand faster and better with clickers.

To the OP-- check out that link from DNL2448/Laura. It is worth it 

E-collars...choke chains...prong collars...these can cost you lots and lots of money. Ecollars are like $100

Clickers are like $1. :bowl:

Happy Thanksgiving!!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

The quickest method I've found for a dog reluctant to swim is to throw out an object they really want to retrieve, take them by the collar, and then guide them out to the object.

Might not work for all dogs, but has worked for all of mine.

By the way, I don't think many trainers would suggest using an e-collar, choke chain, or prong collar to get a dog scared of water to accept it, and I'm willing to bet Evan isn't one of them either.


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## danni's_girl (Mar 24, 2009)

Loisiana said:


> The quickest method I've found for a dog reluctant to swim is to throw out an object they really want to retrieve, take them by the collar, and then guide them out to the object.
> 
> Might not work for all dogs, but has worked for all of mine.
> 
> By the way, I don't think many trainers would suggest using an e-collar, choke chain, or prong collar to get a dog scared of water to accept it, and I'm willing to bet Evan isn't one of them either.


I did get a little off topic, but in another of his posts where he suggested a list of pre-training, he did say that he used e-collars. I may have gotten a little offended when he implied that clicker training has less merit than his methods, too...
It's a matter of personal preference, really...so the OP has a lot of options to choose from. 

using an ecollar in water probably _would_ be a bad idea though :doh:


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

danni's_girl said:


> I did get a little off topic, but in another of his posts where he suggested a list of pre-training, he did say that he used e-collars. I may have gotten a little offended when he implied that clicker training has less merit than his methods, too...
> It's a matter of personal preference, really...so the OP has a lot of options to choose from.
> 
> using an ecollar in water probably _would_ be a bad idea though :doh:


 
You may perhaps wish to gain some actual hands on experience before you begin criticize that which you do not understand. :uhoh:

For the OP, get in the water with the dog. Bring a favorite toy or bumper for the dog to chase and swim after. In most cases once you're in the water the dog will follow. If you're in the northern areas, you may need to wait until spring to try this as it's no fun to learn to swim in icewater.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

If he jumps in from the boat, why not use that to your advantage? Start out in good swimming water and move the boat closer and closer to shore, then eventually on shore a little ways. Of course you'd definitely want to make sure the lake bottom was soft and debris-free as you wouldn't want your pup to hurt himself.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

Loisiana said:


> The quickest method I've found for a dog reluctant to swim is to throw out an object they really want to retrieve, take them by the collar, and then guide them out to the object.
> 
> Might not work for all dogs, but has worked for all of mine.
> 
> By the way, I don't think many trainers would suggest using an e-collar, choke chain, or prong collar to get a dog scared of water to accept it, and I'm willing to bet Evan isn't one of them either.


You are correct. I'm a proponent of Operant Conditioning. But, after training hundreds of dogs to the highest levels over a 30+ year period, I'm also realistic about the needs of hunting dogs to perform reliably. 

Conditioning is important, but it doesn't represent the full training cycle. Again, we're talking about a 2 year old dog being prepared for a hunting career. Hunting dogs often operate at 100+ yards...sometimes at over 400 yards for a duck, pheasant, or goose that sails on the hunter before going down. A clicker that can be heard at that distance will cost considerably more than a dollar!:doh: One that could be heard at that distance would still lack impact because it is universal that distance erodes control, and your dog working at those types of distances must have the highest standards of compliance.


Back to the subject of training itself, my statement "But clicker training will tend to under whelm your 2 year old for hunting preparation. It's going to take real training, and it should begin soon!" I'm all in favor of following an orderly progression in training. But clicker/treat conditioning only represents a portion of the training cycle, and will not produce a level of compliance you will tend to be able to rely on in the field.
*Teach*: the first and most important phase of the training process, is the guiding of behavior and rewarding it.
*Force*: often misunderstood, is the temperate application of pressure coordinated with a given command sequence to formalize the standard, and ensure a higher degree of compliance.
*Reinforce*: the maintenance phase of training, is the ongoing upkeep of trained standards all working dogs need to keep those standards high.
As to the cost of tools: Like the cost of a quality pup, you also get what you pay for in training tools. To get the best bred pup in terms of performance credentials in the parents and grandparents, and also in health assurances, the cost will tend to be more than the average newspaper/puppy mill pup - and for _obviously_ good reason.

Likewise, better heeling sticks, leashes, e-collars, etc will also cost more because that's how it works. The best e-collars don't always have to be bought new, however. Deals are available in various places. Also, you can make a better heeling stick than you can buy from anyone. Working with better equipment doesn't mean spending unwisely, but rather often is the reverse. It also means the trainer should get an education in their use prior to starting to use them with dogs.

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Live dangerously; get a little knowledge." from the old movie _'Lord love a duck!'_

EvanG


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## bjones93 (Nov 23, 2009)

sorry i havnt replied to anybody i couldnt figure out how for a while lol. but, Evan G. I live in southern Delaware.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

You're in good retriever country. http://delbayretrieverclub.org/ *Del Bay Retriever Club* near Elkton is at the northern tip, but is a well established retriever club.

Another would be *Hudson Valley Golden Retriever Club* http://www.hvgrc.org/dvgrr.html .

The *Lenape Golden Retriever Club* are Golden Retriever enthusiasts living in and around Philadelphia and the Delaware Valley. http://www.lenapegoldenretrieverclub.org/ .

Retriever clubs hold training days, and some host seminars. All are usually very open to new members, and have experienced trainers willing to help.

EvanG

http://delbayretrieverclub.org


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## danni's_girl (Mar 24, 2009)

First-- thank you for going into depth on this! It's probably obvious that I don't hunt with my dog, though I have considered it because I think she would be amazing at it, so it's really interesting to me!



EvanG said:


> You are correct. I'm a proponent of Operant Conditioning. But, after training hundreds of dogs to the highest levels over a 30+ year period, I'm also realistic about the needs of hunting dogs to perform reliably.
> 
> Conditioning is important, but it doesn't represent the full training cycle. Again, we're talking about a 2 year old dog being prepared for a hunting career. Hunting dogs often operate at 100+ yards...sometimes at over 400 yards for a duck, pheasant, or goose that sails on the hunter before going down. A clicker that can be heard at that distance will cost considerably more than a dollar!:doh: One that could be heard at that distance would still lack impact because it is universal that distance erodes control, and your dog working at those types of distances must have the highest standards of compliance.


lol, yeah, I didn't really think about the super loud click for hunting. the clicker _would_ work for the original problem though. targeting or something similar could be used to get his dog in the water from land...

So i'm honestly just trying to learn here-- sincere questions:
do you go from clicker training (or some form of it) to the e-collar? wouldn't that really confuse the dog? how (or maybe I should say "when") do you even use the ecollar at a distance?



EvanG said:


> Back to the subject of training itself, my statement "But clicker training will tend to under whelm your 2 year old for hunting preparation. It's going to take real training, and it should begin soon!" I'm all in favor of following an orderly progression in training. But clicker/treat conditioning only represents a portion of the training cycle, and will not produce a level of compliance you will tend to be able to rely on in the field.
> *Teach*: the first and most important phase of the training process, is the guiding of behavior and rewarding it.
> *Force*: often misunderstood, is the temperate application of pressure coordinated with a given command sequence to formalize the standard, and ensure a higher degree of compliance.
> *Reinforce*: the maintenance phase of training, is the ongoing upkeep of trained standards all working dogs need to keep those standards high.


Would you please give an example of force? I'm picturing it as: once you teach a dog to sit reliably with luring/treating, then you say "sit"...the dog does it and you push it's butt down at the same time? I guess I don't understand.. 



EvanG said:


> As to the cost of tools: Like the cost of a quality pup, you also get what you pay for in training tools. To get the best bred pup in terms of performance credentials in the parents and grandparents, and also in health assurances, the cost will tend to be more than the average newspaper/puppy mill pup - and for _obviously_ good reason.
> 
> Likewise, better heeling sticks, leashes, e-collars, etc will also cost more because that's how it works. The best e-collars don't always have to be bought new, however. Deals are available in various places. Also, you can make a better heeling stick than you can buy from anyone. Working with better equipment doesn't mean spending unwisely, but rather often is the reverse. It also means the trainer should get an education in their use prior to starting to use them with dogs.
> 
> ...


I agree with the first part of this to a certain extent, but as I'm sure everyone's aware, it's not always like this. There are many puppies out of "inferior" parents being sold for the same amount (or more) as a puppy from a responsible breeder with better lineage. So I guess I'm more on the disagree side on this part of your post.

Thanks again! I hope I didn't ask too many questions or come across as rude, I'm really just trying to learn. :wave:


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## FeatherRiverSam (Aug 7, 2009)

Just curious...what was it that got your dog out of the boat and into the water when you took him out? Did he just jump out or was he after something?

Pete


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## tessalover (Nov 29, 2009)

My golden had the same problem only the first time she went swimming was when she was 1. She was scared of the water at first. At are cottage she would not go off the warf with my friends dog even though she tried to a couple times but chickened out. So we took her along the beach and I swear she didnèt know how to swim. So me and my friend went into the water with her. And got her out deep enough she couldn't touch and she figured it out. However she still won't go off the warf, but if you take her anywheres near the beach even if the water was black she would dart right in and go for a swim. lol. 
Anyways... like someone else said it may just be that particulry pond.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

danni's_girl said:


> lol, yeah, I didn't really think about the *super loud click* for hunting. the clicker _would_ work for the original problem though. targeting or something similar could be used to get his dog in the water from land...


The _loud clicker_ reference was tongue-in-cheek. They don't serve in the same role as aversives, and would be totally ineffective, even if they could be heard over such a distance.


danni's_girl said:


> So i'm honestly just trying to learn here-- sincere questions:
> 
> do you go from clicker training (or some form of it) to the e-collar?


No. There are more ways than one to teach dogs via Operant Conditioning. I use treats, not clickers. In either case, those reward/marker devices are involved only in the "teach" phase of the training process, except for some maintenance/reiforcement issues. But such issues as could be supported that way would not - _could_ not be fieldwork issues due to distance constraints.

Gundogs are in a different realm than pet dogs. A working retriever isn't doing tricks in the field. They're working, and the work they do is important. Therefore, it is very important that each command or skill not only be performed, but that it be performed reliably, and at any distance, or under any conditions.


danni's_girl said:


> wouldn't that really confuse the dog?


Anytime a dog might have to make a quantum leap into a new level of difficult or demanding work, it can be confusing. That's why my training is sequential and logical in its progression. Each command or skill the dog learns through the Basics process is interconnected to a previous one, and will form a basis for the skill or skill set that follows. That allows the dog to understand the processes, as well as how they relate to each other.

I didn't just take this hobby up. I've been training retrievers at a high level for over 30 years. I have great empathy for them, and understand fully that most of what will be required of them is our idea, not theirs.


danni's_girl said:


> how (or maybe I should say "when") do you even use the ecollar at a distance?


As puppies, the work is almost entirely passive (OC), up to around 4-6 months. Each pup matures at its own pace, so I simply read their readiness to progress into a more formal level of work. That's how my program is built. The last thing I would do to a dog is place them on a schedule, or timeline that says, "Okay, your pup is 4 months old, so it should be doing x, y, and z." Anyone who tells you such things should be avoided! Dogs aren't machines.

The progression as the pup matures is very clear. There is no confusion when pressure enters the process because you will have been teaching your pup its job for roughly six months before that. Pressure is temperat, not severe, and is tied directly to commands the pup knows. He knows what the commands are, and he knows what acts to perform in compliance with them. We're formalizing them now so that compliance will be more reliable.

We begin conditioning our dogs to aversive stimulus at short distance/or no distance because we need to have the most control of the situation, and with the least possible pressure. Universally, distance erodes control. The further our dogs are from us, the less control we tend to have over them.

Once coditioned to an e-collar, for example, we don't just go out and try to use it to enforce a command at great distance. We construct and run progressive, sequential drills that involve essential skills. If those skills break down, it usually begins at a short distance, where we have an opportunity to enforce them with the e-collar. This gradually extends as distance in the drill extends, and the dog learns to respect and respond at any and all distances. Because of this sequential approach, pressure is rarely high. Here's an example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1il0xaGTXm4


danni's_girl said:


> Would you please give an example of force? I'm picturing it as: once you teach a dog to sit reliably with luring/treating, then you say "sit"...the dog does it and you push it's butt down at the same time? I guess I don't understand..


This is not a bad example, exept that some dogs may have required a 'push' to get a sit going to start with. They don't all lure as easily as others.





But, "yes", pressure is generally not used until the pup knows what he should do. When the pup reaches physical and emotional maturity sufficient to begin getting formal, we use aversives like heeling sticks, leashes & collars, etc. as implements of force. Bear in mind that the words "pressure" & "force" do not imply an amount. The actual amount of pressure is usually minimal in most cases, but is enough so that the pup begins to conform to command standards - even when distracted or moody.


danni's_girl said:


> I agree with the first part of this to a certain extent, but as I'm sure everyone's aware, it's not always like this. There are many puppies out of "inferior" parents being sold for the same amount (or more) as a puppy from a responsible breeder with better lineage. So I guess I'm more on the disagree side on this part of your post.


I mentioned two items:
Tools
Puppies
Since e-collars were part of the discussion, I referenced a price/quality comparison. The best e-collar on the market is the Tri Tronics Pro 500 G3 EXP. Second place is well behind it. That collar also has the highest price, and I find that reasonable. They don't sell Bentley's for the price of a Yugo.

As for puppies, my first was a $100 pup from a newspaper. She was a very talented dog, and became Qualified All-Age. I was very blessed...and very lucky.

You can get lucky still. You may indeed buy a backyard bred pup, and end up with a good dog. Even with expensive breedings it's a gamble. But, when you take the time, and make the effort to seek out established, well known breeders of top notch stock you're going to pay more. What you will get for that higher price will be pups from proven performance parents and grandparents, which much improves your chances of getting a high performance pup; a pup with great desire and great talent.

It also tends to get you health assurances, and even guarantees that _will not_ come with a newspaper pup. You can rely on those breeders because they've got their reputations at stake. They have invested their lives in those reputations. Expect to pay for that. It's both fair and reasonable.

Being lucky and being smart are not the same things.


danni's_girl said:


> Thanks again! I hope I didn't ask too many questions or come across as rude, I'm really just trying to learn. :wave:


No probem. That's how any of us learns.

EvanG


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

Loisiana said:


> The quickest method I've found for a dog reluctant to swim is to throw out an object they really want to retrieve, take them by the collar, and then guide them out to the object.


Dumb me thought my Golden wouldn't swim. I threw sticks in but she just waded out and barked. Then one day I threw out her favorite tennis ball and she just barked for awhile and then acted like 'what the heck' and took out after it. No problems after that. 

Not having good luck with my adopted mixed lab though. He looked like he tried to swim one day but he just patted the water with his front paws and wouldn't go any further. He does have long legs so I wonder if that is a problem in swimming?:gotme: Here's a pic of him.


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## danni's_girl (Mar 24, 2009)

EvanG, again, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I learned a lot. The video on youtube was really impressive...that made it look almost easy.  I was curious what the whistle signified, and maybe I need to take another look, but was the dog in this particular case ever corrected with an e-collar? :wave:


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

The single whistle blast ("toot") is the command to stop/sit. The dog is to stop instantly, turn and face the handler & sit; all in a single motion. This is in preparation to be given a cast (hand signal) toward the fall. The reason we handle retrievers is to change their course. If they had been on the right course there would have been no need to handle them.

Handling is a very valuable skill. Since dogs don't speak English (or any other verbal language), we find that the behavioral language of handling is highly effective - even at very long distance. If you watch the video again, you'll see the dog going off line, then being stopped, and handled back on line.

EvanG


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## G Olden (Dec 3, 2009)

photomel said:


> Porter was always a wader......he never would go further than he could touch bottom. It was never a huge issue other than we felt he missed out on some fun. I even tok him to hang out with swimming dogs, but he still wouldnt swim.


Our dog Bailey won't go past shoulder depth yet either - i have tried throwing the toy a little farther out but i end up having to fetch it back myself.:
He's still only 16 months yet so there's plenty of time yet


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

G Olden said:


> Our dog Bailey won't go past shoulder depth yet either - i have tried throwing the toy a little farther out but i end up having to fetch it back myself.:
> He's still only 16 months yet so there's plenty of time yet


Have any of you folks with non-swimming retrievers ever simply taken your dog by the collar and slowly, gently led them out into gradually deeper water - petting and praising as you go - just to get them swimming? I do it with nearly all my pups. 16 months is a LONG time to wait for this. Our pups are usually past this at around 16 weeks. It usually takes little time, and virtually no pressure.

EvanG


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

EvanG said:


> Have any of you folks with non-swimming retrievers ever simply taken your dog by the collar and slowly, gently led them out into gradually deeper water - petting and praising as you go - just to get them swimming? I do it with nearly all my pups. 16 months is a LONG time to wait for this. Our pups are usually past this at around 16 weeks. It usually takes little time, and virtually no pressure.
> 
> EvanG


Evan--is it different when it comes to getting the dog to jump from a ledge into water? My pup's been swimming since I got her at 8 weeks and has been really good and confident since 3-4 months. However, she lacks confidence sometimes when she must get in from a ledge. She will do it occasionally. Part of me thinks she is anxious about the jump, but another part thinks it may just be that she is anxious about not being able to get back out of the water. She is 8 months.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

And my 5 month old will run to the edge of the water, come to a complete stop, and then leap in. I don't know if this is something that will eliminate on his own as he gets more experience, or if I need to do something to get a nice smooth entry.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Loisiana said:


> And my 5 month old will run to the edge of the water, come to a complete stop, and then leap in. I don't know if this is something that will eliminate on his own as he gets more experience, or if I need to do something to get a nice smooth entry.


My 7 month old will sometimes do this. He also wants to wait and watch the bumper hit the water first before going in. Other times he leaps in there with no hesitation. Who knows! As long as he's getting in I'm happy.

These dogs who won't swim past where they can touch is SOOOOO common with goldens. To me it is a BIG problem and not something time will fix.


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## G Olden (Dec 3, 2009)

I have indeed tried to gently coax him out but he gets so far and that is it.

If he is happy simply splashing about in the shallows then that is fine by me.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

K9-Design said:


> My 7 month old will sometimes do this. He also wants to wait and watch the bumper hit the water first before going in. Other times he leaps in there with no hesitation. Who knows! As long as he's getting in I'm happy.
> 
> These dogs who won't swim past where they can touch is SOOOOO common with goldens. To me it is a BIG problem and *not* something time will fix.


But thorough training will, at least to a workable extent. Each one is different. If the dog is only a pet, this is not an issue. But since this is a hunt/field forum, the dogs I'm speaking of work for a living as "retrievers", and not swimming is a major issue for those dogs.

A thorough course of Basics, including water force & swim-by will solidly address this issue. If you're a dog owner who doesn't care, that's fine by me. If you're a trainer who will hunt, test, or trial your dog, I can help. 

EvanG


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## G Olden (Dec 3, 2009)

Apologies for not making myself clear EvanG - our two dogs are family pets and not working dogs.:wavey:


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

G Olden said:


> Apologies for not making myself clear EvanG - our two dogs are family pets and not working dogs.:wavey:


No problem.

EvanG


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## Witty (Nov 30, 2009)

I had a retriever who was timid to go past shoulder-deep water. She was well-trained in dry land retreives and loved it alot. 
I got her into an backwater area of a bay where there was matted cattails quite thick on the surface of the water. She could run/leap across the top of them, initially sinking only minimally when going to retrieve the bumper. I just kept throwing it progressively closer to the open water where the cattails were not matted so thick (and thus sinking deeper). Eventually she was at the edge of the boggy stuff and lept into the open water and was swimming. That took about an hour; we kept doing that for another hour, moving around until she was going straight into the water off the shore. 

Every dog is different. But with her, I figure it circumvented the need for a solid footing and was an incremental transition between walking and swimming.


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