# A Study of the Golden Retriever



## DanaRuns

Don't take this the wrong way, but why do you care? If you're not going to be showing him, what difference does it make? He's clearly a lovely dog. And I love my train wreck of a rescue every bit as much as I love my show dogs.

He does seem to have lots of neck, and his rear is a bit straight. I think learning to stack him will show you a much better top line. Overall, he's a lovely boy. There are no perfect dogs.


----------



## abradshaw71

He's beautiful! You should be very happy with his appearance.


----------



## hotel4dogs

disclaimer...it's almost impossible to tell from photos....but he appears long in the body and short in the legs. That could very well be the photos, again.
The golden should be 12 inches long for every 11 tall, and he looks longer than that.
Very nice head, nice topline.


----------



## coaraujo

DanaRuns said:


> Don't take this the wrong way, but why do you care? If you're not going to be showing him, what difference does it make? He's clearly a lovely dog. And I love my train wreck of a rescue every bit as much as I love my show dogs.
> 
> He does seem to have lots of neck, and his rear is a bit straight. I think learning to stack him will show you a much better top line. Overall, he's a lovely boy. There are no perfect dogs.


I will be showing him at my local GRC shows, our first show will most likely be in June at the breed specialty. I just don't know how well we'll actually do ribbon wise. I'm trying to learn about handling and understanding conformation. Showing is something I want to get more involved in in the future, and even if Oliver won't necessarily win in the ring, some day I hope to have a dog who will. But I need to have some knowledge of conformation to be able to pick a show quality puppy and know my dogs strengths and weaknesses. 

By lots of neck, does that mean its too long or too thick? Thank you!


----------



## coaraujo

hotel4dogs said:


> disclaimer...it's almost impossible to tell from photos....but he appears long in the body and short in the legs. That could very well be the photos, again.
> The golden should be 12 inches long for every 11 tall, and he looks longer than that.
> Very nice head, nice topline.


Thank you very much. I will bring this up when I meet with his breeder. People do tend to complement on him being short, but I wasn't sure if he actually IS short or if its just because people have this false impression that goldens are supposed to be ginormous lol.


----------



## DanaRuns

coaraujo said:


> I will be showing him at my local GRC shows, our first show will most likely be in June at the breed specialty. I just don't know how well we'll actually do ribbon wise. I'm trying to learn about handling and understanding conformation. Showing is something I want to get more involved in in the future, and even if Oliver won't necessarily win in the ring, some day I hope to have a dog who will. But I need to have some knowledge of conformation to be able to pick a show quality puppy and know my dogs strengths and weaknesses.
> 
> By lots of neck, does that mean its too long or too thick? Thank you!


Aha! Now I understand! 

"Lots of neck" isn't a criticism. It's a good thing. Makes the Golden functional as a hunting dog. And I don't think he's too long. So, see, opinions vary. I think his long neck makes him appear long, and the way he is standing emphasizes the length of his neck. Get his head up and his nose down, and that length, neck and top line will look awesome.

I don't know how Oliver will do in the ring, I certainly can't tell from these photos. But don't get discouraged if he doesn't win right away. I'll tell you that the one and only time I handled my own dog in the ring (my 2nd show dog, Gibbs, pictured below as a puppy), we came in 4th out of 4 in his 6-9 class. That was in Sweeps at the GRCA Western Regional Specialty, on the first day of a four-day cluster. It was also Gibbs' first show, as he was 6 mos. and 1 day old. I thought, "Shoot, I guess he doesn't measure up against these other puppies, which he'll be competing against for his whole life. Oh, well. I guess I don't have a very good show dog." But then his professional handler took him later that day during the actual competition, and he won that 6-9 class in that show and 9 straight shows after that, including the Western Regional and the Sporting Dog Specialty which had over 160 entries each. So, Gibbs' only loss ever was not because he wasn't a nice dog, it was because of who was holding the lead -- _me!_ 

It's fantastic that you're taking a handling class, and it sounds like a good one. I'll say that you have to put your hands on a lot of dogs before you get a feel for what's correct and what's not. Personally, I don't think you can do it with books and pictures. You have to touch a lot of Goldens. There is, however, a great resource for learning about picking puppies. I just can't remember what it is, right now. I'm sure someone will know.

I hope you'll post pics as you go! He's a lovely boy!


----------



## coaraujo

DanaRuns said:


> Aha! Now I understand!
> 
> "Lots of neck" isn't a criticism. It's a good thing. Makes the Golden functional as a hunting dog. And I don't think he's too long. So, see, opinions vary. I think his long neck makes him appear long, and the way he is standing emphasizes the length of his neck. Get his head up and his nose down, and that length, neck and top line will look awesome.
> 
> I don't know how Oliver will do in the ring, I certainly can't tell from these photos. But don't get discouraged if he doesn't win right away. I'll tell you that the one and only time I handled my own dog in the ring (my 2nd show dog, Gibbs, pictured below as a puppy), we came in 4th out of 4 in his 6-9 class. That was in Sweeps at the GRCA Western Regional Specialty, on the first day of a four-day cluster. It was also Gibbs' first show, as he was 6 mos. and 1 day old. I thought, "Shoot, I guess he doesn't measure up against these other puppies, which he'll be competing against for his whole life. Oh, well. I guess I don't have a very good show dog." But then his professional handler took him later that day during the actual competition, and he won that 6-9 class in that show and 9 straight shows after that, including the Western Regional and the Sporting Dog Specialty which had over 160 entries each. So, Gibbs' only loss ever was not because he wasn't a nice dog, it was because of who was holding the lead -- _me!_
> 
> It's fantastic that you're taking a handling class, and it sounds like a good one. I'll say that you have to put your hands on a lot of dogs before you get a feel for what's correct and what's not. Personally, I don't think you can do it with books and pictures. You have to touch a lot of Goldens. There is, however, a great resource for learning about picking puppies. I just can't remember what it is, right now. I'm sure someone will know.
> 
> I hope you'll post pics as you go! He's a lovely boy!


Thank you very much for this post! I really just want to learn everything I possibly can, soak it all in. There's so many elements to golden's it amazes me. 

I really appreciate getting everyone's opinions and feedback. I know its hard to tell things from pictures but at least it gives me things to bring up to his breeder when I meet with her. Its also nice to get all of your opinions because obviously I'm biased  and my breeder might be a bit too . I wish I knew people with show goldens so I could feel them and start getting an idea of what's correct structure. I have his sire's breeder's contact info (he's a CH), but she's down in New Jersey so its a bit of a drive for me. I'll have to see if my breeder can put me into contact with some people from our local GRC. I met a very nice lady at my training facility who owns/shows goldens, she's the one that referred my handling class to me. I'll just have to keep meeting people and finding mentors 


I'm very excited to get my feet wet in conformation with Oliver. It seems like there's a lot more work for the handler than there is for the dog. My instructor focuses a lot more on us than our dogs in class. Teaching us how to hold our arms and really drilling in the patterns (and jogging in STRAIGHT lines) lining up with judges etc. There's so much to remember! I think I might be a bit too clumsy for this lol. Apparently Oliver and I need to appear as a dance team - I'm not all that graceful haha. She's also teaching us how to hold the lead and fold it so we can give and take smoothly. Gosh there's just so much to know! 

Regardless of what happens I'm already having fun!


----------



## DanaRuns

Yeah, the dogs know everything they need to. It's the people who need the training.


----------



## Selli-Belle

He does seem a little straight in the rear and he also seems to lack balance between his front and rear in terms of muscularity. That may be partially a coat thing and partially an age thing. Good luck an have fun!


----------



## Megora

The one thing I see here is you don't a lot of the length of rear and shoulder to work with (but I like the looks of him - he's a very nice dog). I was going to say that you may want to set him up with his rear feet a smidge back further and his front legs a smidge forward. And when showing his head and neck, you would have a hand on the chain (I slip a couple fingers under the chain to hold/control Bertie's head while setting him up - similar to how the handler is doing in DanaRuns signature pic - I don't go in front through) and using that to hold his head up not quite as high as you have here and not quite as high as Gibbs' head in that picture for that matter. 

Of course, one of the other pictures you showed - his rear legs looked like you had more to work with, so maybe it was the lighting and angle that threw me off. 

I think he has a nice head and I don't see a problem with his topline - or length of body. If you set up his feet similar to what I described, it might help straighten out the topline. There was a conversation I followed elsewhere (and agreed with) - but when people set dogs up with their heads too high, it affects the topline). 

That is so cool you are showing him - good luck and have fun!

ETA - Pick up a 30" show leash if you can. A braided leather one (stronger and kinder to your hands). It will probably cost around $50-60, but it makes a huge difference in handling the leash and gathering it up with one hand, etc...


----------



## Alaska7133

Remember you are paying for one person's opinion that one day. The next day of a 2 day show, the next judge will have a completely different opinion. So just have fun, ask your breeder for help. Hope everyone is nice and friendly. We need more new people in the show ring.


----------



## LJack

He seems to have some hair flippies on his neck. Does he were a collar frequently? If so, you may want hime naked more to avoid flippies and indents in the body.


----------



## KeaColorado

My $0.02 coming from a fellow novice who wants to learn just like you is that Oliver has a very nice head and expression  

Have you considered signing up for a CCA event? It looks like there might be a few coming up in your area (within a day's drive at least). GRCA-CCA UPCOMING EVENTS

It's a wonderful educational event. Three independent evaluators with extensive knowledge of GRs will go over your boy and you'll get a score sheet from each one. We did this with Kea last year, and though I already had a pretty good idea of her faults based on the feedback from her breeder and others, it was still a really great experience. It definitely helped me learn more about how to interpret the breed standard. You don't really have to know a whole lot about conformation to enter, but it does help I think to have some basic knowledge of how to gait your dog and how to stack him. Ken Matthews (Chuckanut Retrievers) was one of our evaluators and I really enjoyed meeting him, as I have huge admiration for his breeding program!


----------



## coaraujo

Megora said:


> The one thing I see here is you don't a lot of the length of rear and shoulder to work with (but I like the looks of him - he's a very nice dog). I was going to say that you may want to set him up with his rear feet a smidge back further and his front legs a smidge forward. And when showing his head and neck, you would have a hand on the chain (I slip a couple fingers under the chain to hold/control Bertie's head while setting him up - similar to how the handler is doing in DanaRuns signature pic - I don't go in front through) and using that to hold his head up not quite as high as you have here and not quite as high as Gibbs' head in that picture for that matter.
> 
> Of course, one of the other pictures you showed - his rear legs looked like you had more to work with, so maybe it was the lighting and angle that threw me off.
> 
> I think he has a nice head and I don't see a problem with his topline - or length of body. If you set up his feet similar to what I described, it might help straighten out the topline. There was a conversation I followed elsewhere (and agreed with) - but when people set dogs up with their heads too high, it affects the topline).
> 
> That is so cool you are showing him - good luck and have fun!
> 
> ETA - Pick up a 30" show leash if you can. A braided leather one (stronger and kinder to your hands). It will probably cost around $50-60, but it makes a huge difference in handling the leash and gathering it up with one hand, etc...



Thank you for all of your input and advice! I'm going to make a list of all the comments everyone has said to bring up with my breeder for when we go over him. Since we're learning to stack next class i'll bring up some of the points you brought up with the instructor. 

Something I noticed when i was attempting to "stack" him for these pictures. I'd move his back feet backward like I've seen in photos of goldens stacked and Oliver would immediately move his foot forward again. I'm not sure if it was because the flooring is a bit slick in my apartment or what, but he seemed hesitant to let me put his feet where I want them. I'm sure my instructor will go over this in class, but how do I get him to let me place his feet?

For the size of the show lead - I measure his neck and then buy one two inches larger than that? Is that only if you get a separate lead and collar? Do slip leads come in sizes (those have little adjustable clips right?)?

Thanks!


----------



## coaraujo

LJack said:


> He seems to have some hair flippies on his neck. Does he were a collar frequently? If so, you may want hime naked more to avoid flippies and indents in the body.


He does have pretty bad "collar hair". I'll make sure to keep him naked around the house. Maybe a martingale type collar would help reduce the flippies?


----------



## coaraujo

KeaColorado said:


> My $0.02 coming from a fellow novice who wants to learn just like you is that Oliver has a very nice head and expression
> 
> Have you considered signing up for a CCA event? It looks like there might be a few coming up in your area (within a day's drive at least). GRCA-CCA UPCOMING EVENTS
> 
> It's a wonderful educational event. Three independent evaluators with extensive knowledge of GRs will go over your boy and you'll get a score sheet from each one. We did this with Kea last year, and though I already had a pretty good idea of her faults based on the feedback from her breeder and others, it was still a really great experience. It definitely helped me learn more about how to interpret the breed standard. You don't really have to know a whole lot about conformation to enter, but it does help I think to have some basic knowledge of how to gait your dog and how to stack him. Ken Matthews (Chuckanut Retrievers) was one of our evaluators and I really enjoyed meeting him, as I have huge admiration for his breeding program!


I think this is a great idea! I'd love to have Oliver evaluated. How does the score sheet work? Does it go over the different areas and then rate each of those areas (like on a scale of 1 - 10)? I'm going to check out the upcoming events 

Did you do anything to prep Kea, grooming wise? I think my handling class will provide a good prep training wise.


----------



## Megora

There's some training involved with getting them to keep their feet in place. Teaching them stand-stays too. With repetition - they learn. 

You may want to talk to your breeder or the instructor on the sizing of the show lead or see if they have something you can borrow and try out in class. 

I use a choke chain (snake chain) with a separate leash.


----------



## hotel4dogs

Yikes!
Don't pull his front feet forward any more, they are correct.
I also wouldn't pull the back legs back any farther, he appears pretty straight in the rear legs and if you pull them back you will emphasize that.




Megora said:


> The one thing I see here is you don't a lot of the length of rear and shoulder to work with (but I like the looks of him - he's a very nice dog). I was going to say that you may want to set him up with his rear feet a smidge back further and his front legs a smidge forward. And when showing his head and neck, you would have a hand on the chain (I slip a couple fingers under the chain to hold/control Bertie's head while setting him up - similar to how the handler is doing in DanaRuns signature pic - I don't go in front through) and using that to hold his head up not quite as high as you have here and not quite as high as Gibbs' head in that picture for that matter.
> 
> Of course, one of the other pictures you showed - his rear legs looked like you had more to work with, so maybe it was the lighting and angle that threw me off.
> 
> I think he has a nice head and I don't see a problem with his topline - or length of body. If you set up his feet similar to what I described, it might help straighten out the topline. There was a conversation I followed elsewhere (and agreed with) - but when people set dogs up with their heads too high, it affects the topline).
> 
> That is so cool you are showing him - good luck and have fun!
> 
> ETA - Pick up a 30" show leash if you can. A braided leather one (stronger and kinder to your hands). It will probably cost around $50-60, but it makes a huge difference in handling the leash and gathering it up with one hand, etc...


----------



## hotel4dogs

forgot to say, the CCA is an awesome idea. It's very educational, and they give you written scores as well as verbal feedback.


----------



## Megora

hotel4dogs said:


> Yikes!
> Don't pull his front feet forward any more, they are correct.
> I also wouldn't pull the back legs back any farther, he appears pretty straight in the rear legs and if you pull them back you will emphasize that.


What do I know (I did use the word "smidge" both cases - and did think that the angle and light may have been throwing me off). Goodness but I've been just taking classes and learning with my first boy. It's always learning more every day<: :wave:

@Coar - Please keep us all updated.


----------



## hotel4dogs

Just a quick comment that some of it might be the difference in computer screens, too! I have a bit of a wide screen, might make him look longer than he is. Really really.


----------



## Sally's Mom

I think he is beautiful. Personally, I think his upper arm is a tad short. And I would like to see more breadth of chest. Yes, his rear is a tad straight. That doesn't bother me, but you need balance between front and rear. My Can Tiki who got her straight rear from her AmCan Ch dad is very balanced. You need to get a Mars comb to thin out the neck hair. I tend not to practice anything with my dogs on slippery floors.


----------



## coaraujo

Sally's Mom said:


> I think he is beautiful. Personally, I think his upper arm is a tad short. And I would like to see more breadth of chest. Yes, his rear is a tad straight. That doesn't bother me, but you need balance between front and rear. My Can Tiki who got her straight rear from her AmCan Ch dad is very balanced. You need to get a Mars comb to thin out the neck hair. I tend not to practice anything with my dogs on slippery floors.


I noticed him neing somewhat narrow in the chest. My instructor mentioned him lookimg like he had some filling out to do still. Hes just shy of 18 months. Will he still fill out more, like by 2 years of age? 

It looks like the next CCA event isnt until June in my area, but I definitely will be signing us up!

Thank you everyone for your input! Ill post pictures after our next class when we learn to stack


----------



## Sally's Mom

He will still fill out. Certain lines are more slow to develop, your breeder would know.


----------



## DanaRuns

He might fill out by two. Or maybe not until three. Or four. They are all different.


----------



## coaraujo

This is probably a really silly question  But how on earth do I get his coat to blow dry straight? I read on the forum to blow in the direction of the fur for the first hour and then against for the second hour. But his butt still ended up being a curly mess. I don't have any grooming tools (except for cheap thinning shears and brushes from petco) so I know I need to go shopping, but I'm assuming I'm doing the straightness of the coat has more to do with the blow dry. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks 

- Unfortunately last weeks handling class was canceled due to snow  so we haven't learned to stack yet.


----------



## Alaska7133

Some dogs have wavy coats no matter what you do. So don't scream if it's not totally straight. The breed standard does allow for wavy coats. So it's not like his isn't correct. Back of the legs is hard to do. Is he standing when you are blowing him out?


----------



## timberdoodle

Someone mentioned evaluating pups. I have watched this video about 3 times. It's fascinating to me to watch someone go over a dog/puppy and point out their strengths and weaknesses. I have been able to watch a couple litters get evaluated in person and find it all very interesting. 
Anyway - here's a pretty good video of Nancy Talbott evaluating a litter of golden puppies.


----------



## Alaska7133

Let me know if you are interested, but I have some copies of the DVD that was created by the Kansas City GR club for the 2006 national. It's all about how to evaluate pups and dogs. How to groom and how to show. It's a really fun DVD with lots of good information. I can mail it to you, just PM me.


----------



## DanaRuns

timberdoodle said:


> Someone mentioned evaluating pups. I have watched this video about 3 times. It's fascinating to me to watch someone go over a dog/puppy and point out their strengths and weaknesses. I have been able to watch a couple litters get evaluated in person and find it all very interesting.
> Anyway - here's a pretty good video of Nancy Talbott evaluating a litter of golden puppies.


I love that video.  But Nancy is none too happy that it is out there. It made her very reluctant to come evaluate Gibbs' litter, and she made me promise not to record video.


----------



## DanaRuns

coaraujo said:


> This is probably a really silly question  But how on earth do I get his coat to blow dry straight? I read on the forum to blow in the direction of the fur for the first hour and then against for the second hour. But his butt still ended up being a curly mess. I don't have any grooming tools (except for cheap thinning shears and brushes from petco) so I know I need to go shopping, but I'm assuming I'm doing the straightness of the coat has more to do with the blow dry. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks
> 
> - Unfortunately last weeks handling class was canceled due to snow  so we haven't learned to stack yet.


Let me ask you: What kind of blow dryer are you using? To straighten that coat you're going to need a dryer with pretty high velocity. I can't imagine taking two hours to dry a dog, so I wonder what you are using.


----------



## HiTideGoldens

Seriously! Two hours??? I would settle for wavy if that's the case! haha It bears repeating that both wavy and straight are correct!


----------



## timberdoodle

DanaRuns said:


> I love that video.  But Nancy is none too happy that it is out there. It made her very reluctant to come evaluate Gibbs' litter, and she made me promise not to record video.


 Really? Wow, I had no idea.. It was posted on this site in 2011. 
It's very informative!


----------



## coaraujo

DanaRuns said:


> Let me ask you: What kind of blow dryer are you using? To straighten that coat you're going to need a dryer with pretty high velocity. I can't imagine taking two hours to dry a dog, so I wonder what you are using.


Its the blow dryers they have at our local Pet Valu so I'm sure not very high velocity (I think thats why it takes forever to finish drying). That's on the shopping list for grooming supplies! I feel like I need to get his butt fur straight because the rest of him is straight. His front, and belly are all super straight and neat and then he has curls and cowlicks on his rear. Makes him look a bit goofy. He's all business in the front and party in the back...


----------



## Megora

goldenjackpuppy said:


> Seriously! Two hours??? I would settle for wavy if that's the case! haha It bears repeating that both wavy and straight are correct!


^ I was thinking the same.  

I have a grooming date set up with Bertie's one breeder before I show him next to learn other "tricks" to getting rid of the flippies on the hippies. : When Bertie has had a bath, he gets ring around the butt. If I'm just blow drying and letting it be, within a couple days it's straightens out on it's own. <- Which would be ideal if there wasn't so much emphasis on a freshly bathed dog in the show ring. 

I asked a couple well-known handlers here in my area how when I was at a show and it came down to having hair spray, a rake, and a good dryer.


----------



## Eowyn

Alaska7133 said:


> Let me know if you are interested, but I have some copies of the DVD that was created by the Kansas City GR club for the 2006 national. It's all about how to evaluate pups and dogs. How to groom and how to show. It's a really fun DVD with lots of good information. I can mail it to you, just PM me.


If you had more than one extra, I would definitely be interested in a copy.


----------



## coaraujo

It sounds like once I buy the right tools the grooming shouldn't be so bad. How long does it normally take for you guys to blow dry your golden's?


----------



## Alaska7133

Maybe I'm just slow, but I take 1-1/2 to 2 hours to dry my dogs each. I use a CC drier, it's very nice. I do keep the volume low so it doesn't bother the dogs as much, they hate the whole grooming thing. I had a friend that has been grooming and showing for years tell me, when you think they are dry, dry them for another 30 minutes. Butts are just plain hard to dry.


----------



## HiTideGoldens

My Jack has the butt flippies too....it just takes regular grooming to train the hair to lay flat. I don't worry about it now that he's retired from the show ring but they used to be the bane of my existence!


----------



## gldnboys

With my wavy-coated boy, I settled for just trying to get the coat to lie as flat as I could get it.... As others have mentioned, a wavy coat is also correct, but I was mainly concerned with not making my boy look as if he had faults that actually weren't there. In his case (and my current dog's as well), the worst flippies are/were around the sides of the neck. It did take me over an hour to dry him for a show.... I'd say at least 1 1/4 hours, and that was at the higher speed on my dryer.


----------



## DanaRuns

The curly coat correct corrector.


----------



## Megora

Dana what are the spooly things on the left? 

*** It takes me about an hour to get Bertie dry after a bath. And that's him sopping wet right to the skin.


----------



## DanaRuns

Those are replacement filters. Nothing to see there. Move along, now...


----------



## coaraujo

goldenjackpuppy said:


> My Jack has the butt flippies too....it just takes regular grooming to train the hair to lay flat. I don't worry about it now that he's retired from the show ring but they used to be the bane of my existence!


Oliver's flippies lie flat after few days (well mostly flat) kind of like how Megora described. How often should I be grooming Oliver if I'm going to be getting him ready for showing? Our goal is to show at our local GRC breed specialty in June. Is there a grooming schedule I should get on?


----------



## HiTideGoldens

Realistically, bath and blow dry once a week to get his coat in condition. It's a big time commitment but it works. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## DanaRuns

goldenjackpuppy said:


> Realistically, bath and blow dry once a week to get his coat in condition. It's a big time commitment but it works.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I agree. My dogs get bathed and blow dried weekly. That's why it's useful to have good equipment.


----------



## Shellbug

Oh goodness. I leave Thor's flippies flipping lol. I LOVE them. May not be proper for show dogs. Hehe. I tell him all the time he "ain't no show dog". I love his waves and flips. They are mostly present after bath time as he just air dries. How do y'all get your dogs to let you blow dry them ? Thor flips out when I turn it on and try to dry him. The only reason I tried (admittedly only once) was because I didn't want him so soaked and running around. Now I just towel dry him as best as I can. The flips just fly! Lol. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Megora

Lots of treats while on a grooming table helps...  

My first golden was curly - drove me nuts. Always looked rumpled.


----------



## coaraujo

I think Oliver could be straight with the right grooming. I feel like for the little grooming I do his coat lies pretty flat, so if I do a bath and blow dry once a week we should be good. Its just right after the bath and initial attempted blow dry that we get the crazy flippies. 

Alright, now I have a question for all of you veterans out there (in showing and grooming). If you could have any grooming tools what would they be (in order of importance). The reason I'm asking is my birthday is Friday and of course I'll be asking for all grooming and showing supplies. Any holiday where gifts are involved I always ask for things that revolve around dogs  I must be the strangest 22 year old out there - Mom can I have a 90$ pair of sterling silver thinning shears please!

I think that the blow dryer is at the top of my list, what brands are good to look at. Is there a minimum velocity or something I should be looking for. Dana, is the one you posted actually called the Curly Coat Correct Corrector? 

P.S. If i'm doing weekly baths and blow drys do I need to use any special shampoos or conditioners on him to avoid dry skin, especially in this cold weather?


----------



## Ljilly28

I enjoyed watching the litter evaluation. I attend as many as I can, and it is educational the different methods people use. I have a very strong opinion whenever I choose a puppy, and sometimes my pick of the litter isnt the breeders'. I want the "top" of the armpit to be even with the crevice at the top of the stifle. Looking for that helps me orient myself to the pup's overall balance, and let's my eye have a homebase. I go from there.

Your dog in the OP's face is very cute! He is straight in his stifle, so you will want to learn how to place his back feet. I have two who I wish had more bend in stifle, but learning where to place feet makes a big difference. 

When I really wanted to learn I had a mentor who was so awesome about sending me dogs to critique via email, working on different parts of the dog. Then I learned them on real life dogs. She spent about four years testing and quizzing me. I am thankful. It also helps to have imperfect dogs in the ring! When you know your dog's weak point, you kind of learn the strong point in other dogs and vice versa. Over the years, you get the whole dog.


----------



## hollyk

Backing up to the CCA idea, consider volunteering to be a judges stewart. I have done it at the last two CCA's my club has had. It's a pretty nice opportunity to hear the evaluation of every dog that comes though. I told the judges I was working with that I was trying to understand structure and they were fountains of information. I think I had my hand on just about every dog with instruction addressing what it was I feeling or looking for.
I learned so much and as a beginner I was given more information than I could process. I will be doing it again, for me it was a free Master Class in structure.


----------



## Megora

*Giving this question a bump *



coaraujo said:


> I think Oliver could be straight with the right grooming. I feel like for the little grooming I do his coat lies pretty flat, so if I do a bath and blow dry once a week we should be good. Its just right after the bath and initial attempted blow dry that we get the crazy flippies.
> 
> Alright, now I have a question for all of you veterans out there (in showing and grooming). If you could have any grooming tools what would they be (in order of importance). The reason I'm asking is my birthday is Friday and of course I'll be asking for all grooming and showing supplies. Any holiday where gifts are involved I always ask for things that revolve around dogs  I must be the strangest 22 year old out there - Mom can I have a 90$ pair of sterling silver thinning shears please! *(I'll leave it to the veterans to answer, but I had to laugh because I gave my mom a list of dog and horse things I needed when she was digging for Christmas gift ideas)*
> 
> I think that the blow dryer is at the top of my list, what brands are good to look at. Is there a minimum velocity or something I should be looking for. Dana, is the one you posted actually called the Curly Coat Correct Corrector? (*it's a K9III, I think*)
> 
> P.S. If i'm doing weekly baths and blow drys do I need to use any special shampoos or conditioners on him to avoid dry skin, especially in this cold weather? (*I'm spacing it out to 2-3 weeks because it's been so dry in the house + outside*)


 
Just bumping.


----------



## K9-Design

For the list of grooming tools in order of importance I would go :

1 good grooming table & arm/noose
2 good drier (I like my blue box Kool Dry just fine, Chris Christensen sells them now under their own brand)
3 slicker brush!!
4 great thinning shears
5 8" straight shears
6 fine tooth metal comb
7 large poodle comb
8 pin brush
9 Products ----- for pre-show grooming --- these are pure personal preference and you have to do lots of experimenting. If I had to state my favorite ones it would be Biosilk Silk Therapy leave-in conditioner for blow drying, Crowne Royal Bodifier, the hair thickener serum stuff I get from Walgreens in the green bottle (LOL -- I have no idea what the brand name is) and Terrier Touch cholesterol for legs. Lots of people use powder but I never have.


----------



## coaraujo

Here's the quick list I made, anything else I should add? Oh shoot I forgot straight shears, any recommendations on where to get good straight shears?

*Dog Dryer:*
Chris Christensen Kool Dry Dryer - Cherrybrook
or
K-9 III Dog Blower-Dryer

*44-20 Thinning Shears:*
Amazon.com: 44/20 Stainless Steel Taper-fine Tapering And Thinning Shear: Health & Personal Care
or
44-20 Thinning Shear

*36 inch Grooming table with arm:*
https://www.petedge.com/zpetedgemai...859B56CFB3&show=12&view=grid&wec-locale=en_US

Chris Christensen Products

*Slicker Brush*
Amazon.com: Chris Christensen Mark III Slicker Brush (Medium): Pet Supplies

*Wood 20 mm Pin Brush*





*Ice on Ice*





*Poodle Comb:*
Amazon.com: Poodle Comb BUTTERCOMB by Chris Christensen: Pet Supplies

*Long Tooth Fine/Coarse Comb:*
Amazon.com: Buttercomb 7.5" Long Tooth Fine / Coarse #005: Pet Supplies

Other Products

*Crowne Royale Bodifier*
Amazon.com: Crown Royale Bodifier 16oz: Pet Supplies

This will be shared by me and Oliver
*Biosilk Leave In Conditioner*





*Isle of Dog #10 Shampoo*
Amazon.com: Isle of Dogs Coature No. 10 Evening Primrose Oil Dog Shampoo for Dry and Sensitive Skin, 1-Liter: Pet Supplies

*Isle of Dog #51 Conditioner*





*Isle of Dog #20 Shampoo*
Amazon.com: Isle of Dogs Coature No. 20 Royal Jelly Dog Shampoo for thin or shedding coats, 1 liter: Pet Supplies


----------



## Megora

Megora said:


> ^ I was thinking the same. (about 2 hours on drying)
> 
> I have a grooming date set up with Bertie's one breeder before I show him next to learn other "tricks" to getting rid of the flippies on the hippies. : When Bertie has had a bath, he gets ring around the butt. If I'm just blow drying and letting it be, within a couple days it's straightens out on it's own. <- Which would be ideal if there wasn't so much emphasis on a freshly bathed dog in the show ring.
> 
> I asked a couple well-known handlers here in my area how when I was at a show and it came down to having hair spray, a rake, and a good dryer.


I gave this some thought tonight as I had to clean up both dogs... both have gone a few weeks since their last bath so it was absolutely needed. The water was black....

Started at 5:30-6:00 with the baths - just bathed them one after another. Jacks needed conditioning so worked on him a lot longer than with Bertie. Took me about 45 minutes total between the dogs. 

And then I spent another 45 minutes or so drying Jacks completely.... and then another 30-40 minutes trimming up his feet, cutting toenails, cleaning out the ears.... 

Then Bertie was almost dry by the time I got him up on the table and tackled him with the dryer. Both dogs got a conditioning mist thingy spritzed on their coats before I dried them... Bertie got a little extra just because he was almost dry. Drying took me about a 1/2 hour or so. And I spent the rest of the time until 8:30 or so trimming up his feet and ears and nails and just making him look nice. 

This is the funny thing - and why I was thinking about this post and my exasperation with his flippy butt. 

Bertie's coat came out perfectly straight. I'm not sure if it was the conditioning mist stuff or the fact he had most air dried by the time I got to him. :bowl:


----------



## coaraujo

Its definitely going to be trial and error. I got a bunch of stuff for my birthday (Dryer and grooming table YAY) and a bathed and dried Oliver first. He was petrified of the dryer so I quit before he was all the way dry, he came out like a curly-q. Bernie on the other hand, I started to get he hang of how to dry. He's my curlier fieldy-type golden. He came out nice and straight...:doh: go figure. At least they smelled pretty with my new Isle of Dog shampoo's and conditioners. Oh and because Oliver was so scared I forgot to dry his tail, that's why you can't see it in the picture, it's sopping wet still because it was tucked away the whole time I was drying him. Still working on getting him to like the dryer..

My poor tortured boy :


----------



## Megora

Bertie was the same way when I first got my dryer. And Jacks LOVED the dryer right from the start. He has this way of standing there looking blissed out while I'm drying him. 

With Bertie I generally have a grooming partner stand on the other side of the table and chain feed him treats while I go over him. He still doesn't like having all that air blowing on him, but he's getting used to it.


----------

