# Can Goldens Defend Themselves?



## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

I remember once, years ago, we had Carmella at my uncle's house while he was watching a friend's female rottweiler. At one point the rotty just full on attacked Carmella, and WOW, I have never ever seen Carmella get so vicious. Her teeth were bared and they were up on their hind legs like rearing stallions or something. We broke it up immediately, but it's safe to say that Carmella was fully prepared to defend herself. I still think the rotty would have won, but not without a fight!

As for Flora... well, she's scared of 5lb dogs so I don't think so. : I think it depends on the dog.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I'll guess it depends, but w/regards to all the goldens I've owned... nope. 

Charmer and Sammy were out in our front yard when a neighborhood kid came by to show off his new dog. This would be a mixed breed, I think cattle dog type mix. This dog immediately went after Sammy. It was a full attack and his owner was way too young to control his dog. 

The only thing Sammy was doing was his "spinning/swimming move", basically protecting his belly and his neck. I suspect he would have gotten nailed if I hadn't grabbed that dog by the collar and yelled at his kid to come and hang onto him while I got my guys into the house. 

Sammy was also attacked by the outdoor lab in our neighborhood back then. The same lab who was put down for shredding a kid. That time Sammy "swam" all the way home. It did serve him right for trying to visit his old friend (they were puppies together, except our dog had a better life inside with us and never turned mean).

Danny was attacked by one of the beagle across the street. He just stood there while the beagle went after his legs. He didn't even growl. Fortunately the owner came running to yank her dog off.

Jacks reacted the same exact way when the shepherd mix down the street jumped his fence and attacked him. The dog was going after his neck and side and Jacks just leaned in to me for protection.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

It's more about the individual than the breed.
And it's about how a dog reads and responds to the body language of another dog. In some ways it makes sense for the dog to give appeasement behaviors to get the attacker to stop, but, that is not always successful, in which case the dog may try to be defensive. 

As we see on here often, goldens can and do get into fights with other dogs. Sometimes after being the victim, but sometimes they will instigate it. 

We do need to recognize that most reactive/aggressive type behaviors are out of fear (of others getting into personal space or near resources) and not that the dog is inherently an idiot...though it feels like it at times!


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Is it a healthy reaction not to fight back or should a dog fight if needed?


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Never forget that if provoked goldens can and will hold their own in fight. Goldens are quick, agile dogs with respectable jaw strength. Don't underestimate them.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Swampcollie said:


> Never forget that if provoked goldens can and will hold their own in fight. Goldens are quick, agile dogs with respectable jaw strength. Don't underestimate them.


Very true. And, each dog is entirely individual. Some will cower from any confrontation, and there are others who relish the opportunity (not entirely "correct" temperament). Most can, and will, defend themselves if needed. Now, how they would fare in a fight might be entirely dependent upon their opponent. I would not put money on a Golden if attacked by an Akita, or a Malamute, for example...


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## C's Mom (Dec 7, 2009)

Cocasse and the American Bulldog were playing nice when all of a sudden things got very serious. Both dogs lost their minds. I was trying to grab my dog while body blocking the American bulldog (they are big aren't they!) but it wasn't working out too well. Thankfully the owner of the other dog was able to grab him and pull him away. Got my blood pressure up for sure! whew! Still a little shaky about it.


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

I think they can...the only time that I've EVER seen Enzo react negatively to a dog was when we were at a campground and an unleashed pit mix started charging us, barking. Enzo stepped in between us and the dog, went rigid and bared his teeth while growling verrrrry quietly under his breath. That was all it took to send the pit back to his own campsite.


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## MittaBear (Mar 9, 2010)

I'm sure some can. But I honestly can't see Chester defending himself. The way I see him play at the dog park, I can't imagine him getting vicious, even if it's to protect himself.

He actually had another dog attack him one time, and he made a screaming noise and didn't try to defend himself. He was only about 6 months old at the time so I don't know if that had something to do with it. But I just can't see him as the type to fight back.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

jackie_hubert said:


> Is it a healthy reaction not to fight back or should a dog fight if needed?


Yes. Fighting expends a ton of energy and injured animals are weaker and can fall victim to predators more easily. Therefore, fighting is considered a last resort in dogs with stable temperaments. There are several ways to diffuse conflict that don't involve actual physical fighting.


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## GoldenOwner12 (Jun 18, 2008)

Shelley isn't much of a fighter but in saying that she hasn't really been in a fight and i think if she was she would run to me for protection. She has showed her bristles to one dog that was bulling her but thats all she did. 
Einstein on the other hand will defend himself if need be. If the other dog starts the fight Einstein trys his best to get the dog away by body slamming it. If body slamming it doesn't work he will then use force but he never ever draws blood from the other dog.


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## willip (Oct 27, 2010)

Chester would defend himself ( hypothetically his level of success would depend on the other dogs breed).
The way he acts with other dogs depends on how they are with him. If they want to play, he does, if they just want to sniff, he does, if they walk on by ignoring him, that's what he does. If its snarling and on the attack, well he will try to give as good as he gets. Luckily though he does listen to me and I make him sit (this calms him down almost instantly) until the owner as dragged their dog away. Luckily this has only happen when both dogs have been on leash and easily controlled. 
When its other dogs fighting he ignores them and doesn't feel the need to get involved!
Luckily this doesn't happen often and people here with "grumpy" dogs will avoid times of the day when other walkers are around or go out country where its quieter.


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

The two males I've owned were scrappy and weren't/aren't about to be bullied by ANY dog. Harley has gone toe to toe with a bullmastiff that outweighed him by 60 pounds over a toy. In the end Harley kept his toy and the bullmastiff leaves Harley alone.

It really depends on the dog. Miri was bitten by a dog that was half her size and came running over to me with the dog hot on her heels. When he got to us I grabbed him by the scruff and shook the ever living **** out of him right in front of his owner.... LoL.... in hindsight that was probably a little mean but they BOTH got the point. Harley takes care of her as well... when a black dog grabbed her back leg and she yelped Harley was on him instantly. Miri chooses to rely on others to look after her.


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## C's Mom (Dec 7, 2009)

Braccarius said:


> It really depends on the dog. Miri was bitten by a dog that was half her size and came running over to me with the dog hot on her heels. When he got to us I grabbed him by the scruff and shook the ever living **** out of him right in front of his owner.... LoL.... in hindsight that was probably a little mean but they BOTH got the point.


Is it wrong that I'm laughing? lol


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## MILLIESMOM (Aug 13, 2006)

Millie was only 60 pounds but I have no doubt that she if need be could defend herself. She was also a hell of a watchdog. I have had several friends that she knew and would play fetch of just stand there for a good scratch. But when they came by and we were not here Millie was at the door all teeth. She protected our vehicles the same way. Her picture in my avatar says it all, the look "Come on make my day"


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## Karlysmom (Sep 4, 2009)

Karly has never really been challenged to fight so I am not sure to what degree she would defend herself. Our lab "Sandy" does the protecting. She always checks out an approaching dog first before it gets to Karly and she did the same with our previous golden "Jake". I have no doubt Sandy would defend herself and her buddies. 
Jake was attacked a couple of times and did not fight back (he may have had to eventually if we hadn't been there to pull the other dog off but I doubt it). 
When he was about 2 years old we were visiting friends with 2 little mixed breed dogs. One was about 10 lbs and was very crabby. She growled at Jake and he jumped into my husbands arms! He was 100 lbs so this was a pretty funny site! He was very afraid of that tiny dog!


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## Muddypaws (Apr 20, 2009)

I know that Darby will defend himself; because he has. Nothing serious, just a little scuffle in class but instead of running to "Mommy" to save him, he stood up and fought back. It sure surprised everyone thats for sure and everyone was ok.

I don't know about Kirby, she is such a sweetheart and she has never had any type of scuffle or "issue". Her immediate reaction is to play bow or lay down, totally a submissive introduction. My guess that she would defend herself if pushed.

I really think it depends on the situation, the dogs involved and me and my reaction.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I forgot a couple more instances with Jacks. They were little things so probably nothing, but -

Last year we ran into somebody with a bigger than normal landseer newf at the petstore. It was the sweetest dog, but Jacks was melting into the floor just in case the dog decided to kill him. 

And at class there was an aggressive golden retriever who kept trying to attack Jacks if we got too close to him. Jacks loves other goldens and was curious about this dog, but his reaction was just backing off and giving the other dog space. Thank goodness. 

And a couple weeks ago we were at a dog show where a mastiff snarled at him. The mastiff's owner immediately tried to claim that my dog had attacked the mastiff, which I found pretty hard to believe considering it was my dog backing up. If anything my guy might have tried inviting the mastiff to play since one of his girlfriends from classes all last year was a mastiff. But even their his "invitation to play" is a soft woof and he dances on his front feet. Something that didn't happen. Hmm.

So I guess with my guy... he shows submissive behavior or flight each time he's challenged, and that's his best defence. I much prefer it that way.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

It is very dog and situation specific--but when a Golden decides to fight they commit to it, and can rip their opponent up pretty badly. There was also a pretty famous field bitch up here who was noted for fighting. She could not be aired with the other dogs because she picked a fight whenever she got the chance, and she did serious damage--unfortunately it is a tendency seen in some of her descendants still.

In my own pack, I have one boy who submits at even the slightest hint of anything from another dog, one who would never start anything, but will defend himself, and a girl who is pretty good about just using avoidance behaviour to diffuse things.


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## cisobe (Feb 22, 2010)

For Tobey I think it depends on the dog attacking... At the dog parks he's been attacked by a couple dogs when he was being a little too annoying (sniffing butts and constantly following). One time he fought back, the other he flopped on his back into a submissive position.

When our two go at it, Tobey talks big but ends up backing up and away from our Sheltie... I usually find him up on the couch moaning and growning because Bailey's got him trapped up on the couch. But sometimes, he turns and pins Bailey, which just pisses him off, and he goes flying around nipping back at Tobey... LoL, at that point I don't think Tobey knows what to do...


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

My seven all get along. However, in public, it's another thing when it comes to other dogs. I live near a public recreation area where dogs are allowed to run loose. I have never been sure of the etiquette, but I usually walk the other way when we encounter other dogs. At the most, I will have 3 of mine loose. One day, we were there with a stupid woman with a stupid not under voice control boxer. She was calling and calling her dog and the stupid boxer kept on jumping on my Mick. Well, then she dropped her treats and it was a free for all. I managed to get my food driven retrievers away.... meanwhile, it was obvious from Mick's body language(he was ducking) that he didn't like the boxer jumping on him. I told the boxers owner that her dog was making mine uncomfortable. We continued to move away... the boxer continued to jump on him. Finally he snapped at the dog... I instantly squelched that. The woman didn't care, she was glad my boy snapped at her dog. I was angry(at the stupid woman) because I don't want my dogs to practice any type of aggression as we have 7 who have to live in harmony. This woman didn't understand that what was happening could've been a prelude to a dog fight. So yes, goldens can defend themselves.

However, years ago my dad had a GSD mix(100 lbs) that was dog aggressive. She was behind a stockade fence with Invisible Fence!! She seemed to get along with my first golden, Sally when I would go to visit. However, the last time Sally ever went there... I was watching, the shepherd came over to initiate play, Sally gave her a look as if to say "go away", the shepherd seemed to say "oh yeah? I'll rip your face off." She jumped on top of Sally...Sally never tried to bite. I was kicking and screaming at the shepherd and she wouldn't let go. Finally, my husband heard the commotion and got on top of the shepherd who was on top of our dog and got a hand under her neck to make her let go. All I can say is thank goodness goldens have a lot of neck hair and loose neck skin!!! I have never been so scared.

So some will not fight back!


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I've seen different behaviors from Daisy depending on the situation, this is difficult to answer.

The first time she fought, she was attacked by a dog similar in size to herself. I had to break that fight up, not sure how it would have ended if I hadn't intervened. I believe they were fighting to the death, sure seemed like it. But Daisy can definitely fight. 

Another time, a smaller dog attacked her and she pinned the dog to the ground by her neck. She could have very easily killed that dog, but she didn't. She just pinned it -- very deliberate, very calm, very effective. She defended herself but she wasn't really fighting. This episode really impressed me. 

And yet another time, this same dog tried attacking her again. Daisy was getting snarly at first but I had her on a leash and was kicking the other dog away. When she saw that I had it under control, she sat still by my side and barely reacted at all.


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## LilTuffGirl (Sep 22, 2009)

Every fight Hayden has been in she ends up on top :doh: I have to add she didn't start any of them!! 
I use to see her as the shy quiet thing that would run but after seeing her spats at the dog park I know she can take care of herself (we don't go there anymore).

Duke.. i'm not sure about him yet. His personality is still changing. He's dumb yet smart. I can't explain him lol


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

Brooks was attacked once, when he was on leash. A GSD came roaring at us from where he had been lying in his yard, off leash. He came into the street and attacked Brooks' back end. Brooks tucked his tail between his legs and kept trying to move out of range of the GSD who was biting at his hips and upper thighs. 
I kicked the GSD as many times, and as fast as I could, in his rear end as I screamed for the owners (who were inside the house). Luckily they came out quickly


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Sally's Mom said:


> One day, we were there with a stupid woman with a stupid not under voice control boxer. She was calling and calling her dog and the stupid boxer kept on jumping on my Mick. Well, then she dropped her treats and it was a free for all. I managed to get my food driven retrievers away.... meanwhile, it was obvious from Mick's body language(he was ducking) that he didn't like the boxer jumping on him. I told the boxers owner that her dog was making mine uncomfortable. We continued to move away... the boxer continued to jump on him. Finally he snapped at the dog... I instantly squelched that. The woman didn't care, she was glad my boy snapped at her dog. I was angry(at the stupid woman) because I don't want my dogs to practice any type of aggression as we have 7 who have to live in harmony. This woman didn't understand that what was happening could've been a prelude to a dog fight. So yes, goldens can defend themselves.


I'm confused about why you would correct your dog for behaving totally appropriately. He was obviously uncomfortable by all of your accounts and finally told the other dog in no uncertain terms he was uncomfortable. Basically, by correcting him for normal behavior was letting him down, in my opinion. Just because that one dog was annoying him doesn't mean he will transfer that to your own dogs since he lives with them harmoniously. 

Yes, Jasmine (lab/golden) will protect herself. She has no problems setting boundaries and enforcing them. But she also isn't afraid to back down when confronted. It worries me sometimes because she has no femural heads because of two FHOs so she can't physically do what she mentally thinks she can.

Jasper will defend himself. We had a corgi/chow mix who attacked him exactly one time when he was about a year old. He defended himself and gave her a cut on her snout. She never bothered him again. He tries every manner he can to diffuse any tension from another dog, but if pressed, he won't run. He is the dog I trust totally and completely when it comes to determining if a dog is aggressive or just all bluff. Because he will tell me by his body language.

Danny won't defend himself. He is 1000% flight.


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## Mayas way (Jan 23, 2011)

It depends.
I will do ANYTHING to avoid an altercation, more due to the sweet disposition of a GR and not wanting it (disposition) compromised. Our male & female will not take flight, so I am always nearby, close by if an unfamiliar dog approaches.
Female Maya will bar teeth and push an overly pushy dog to the ground---which I avoid. Male (Casey) much larger, uses his prescence to stop confrontations. He watches over the play pack and has (twice) neck butted agressive dogs approaching snarling. A loose pit mix once charged him and I was fortunate enough to stand the pit down.
Both Casey & Maya are more protective when Sue is walking with us.
~Dave


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I am not onto letting dogs correct each other because I guess the theory is that the owners are in charge, not the dogs. In general, in our little dog family, I don't want my dogs to snap. Therefore, IF it happens, I nip it in the bud.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Oh and I didn't say I corrected the situation. I removed Mick before a dog fight ensued. I said I "squelched" the situation which meant getting all my dogs by me and moving away.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I am not into letting dogs fight it out.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Since my dogs are under voice control, it was best to use my voice and remove Mick from a situation that might harm him. Sometimes this forum confuses me and I think subscribers are looking for a FIGHT.


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## LincolnsMom (Sep 28, 2010)

I'm not to sure about Lincoln. Once Kevin came home after a night with his army guys and he was pretty tipsy, as soon as he came in Lincoln didn't reconize him -he's had never seen Kevin like that- and he actually growled at him. I think he was protecting me but he for sure put the back fur up for about 20 secs. Then he realized it was Kevin and was fine.

When he was a puppy he was attacked by an American Eskimo and ran to me -he was only 10 weeks old- Stupid women said -my dog loves dogs!. I wish there was a way to know the ignorant people from the ones who actually know their dogs temperament.

Lincoln is very submissive around dogs no matter the size, when he meets them its all butt waging -because a tail just isn't happy enough- and right to the ground in a submissive posture.

So to be honest I have no idea what he would do. If the dog was coming at me I think he would fight to protect me, but if it was my bf I think he would flop and hide behind Daddy. Hopefully I will never have to find out


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## Rctriplefresh5! (Mar 24, 2010)

theyre big strong dogs...so i dont see why not?
whos mr c


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Growling indicates indecision. I wouldn't be worried, ignore it when it happens.


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## Mayas way (Jan 23, 2011)

Sally's Mom--VERY much agree with all your points, and I do the same.
'Swampcollie's' earlier one sentence says it all for their physical capabilities. But I for one, do NOT want to find out with a fight (field or forum for that matter).
Your prior post brings up a point: the warning bark or growl, rigidity etc. are not necessarily unwanted behaviors, more a statement, and they are not provocative necessarily. 
And I too have ours on strict voice control to quell a tense situation or unfamiliar agressive behaving dog (more uncontrolled pet owner)--we will simply leave, my decision not the dog's. Better safe than sorry. Bet the GR's know the true principles to 'The Art of War' anyway. ~Dave


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## sjrjensen (Jan 4, 2011)

It also depends on if they are protecting themselves or you. Our Nikki was bitten as a pup and was afraid of any dog she did not know, but on one walk a group of loose dogs confronted us and she growled and bark at them defensively. I was shocked but what ever she said to them they all backed away and left us alone. I was so proud of her at that moment. She protected me.


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

Sally's Mom said:


> Since my dogs are under voice control, it was best to use my voice and remove Mick from a situation that might harm him. Sometimes this forum confuses me and I think subscribers are looking for a FIGHT.


I don't think people are looking to fight with you at all. I think what people here are looking for in training is an appropriate response in all situations. I find snarking at another dog appropriate in certain circumstances and won't bother to correct my dogs. Harley has made it plainly clear to many dogs at the park that they are being bothersome and has corrected many dogs behaviour toward him. He has never been excessive but he clearly makes it known how he's feeling. 

I don't know how else to put this... but I find Harley is very up front about how he is. His body language is always very strong and easy to read. I dislike it when I see dogs going into a sit when they appear agitated or unsure.... and Miri is famous for it. If she's bothered she goes into a sit at the heel position and her body language is impossible to read. The worst I've seen yet at the park is a dog that was trained perfectly that bit another dog in the face from the down position that the owner put him in.... literally the other dog got zero warning.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> I find snarking at another dog appropriate in certain circumstances and won't bother to correct my dogs.


When it comes to behavior between my own dogs (in this case my sister's 5 yo collie and my 3 yo golden), I'm all for our older dog keeping the younger guy in his place and helping us with the training. This is OK - when it's my dogs. Because they have an understood hierarchy that they abide by, and both know that I will step in if either of them cross the line. 

But it is totally different when taking your dog in public where there are other dogs around and a basically uncontrolled environment. If you allow that kind of behavior with strange dogs, then it might teach your dog to be more dog aggressive or fear aggressive as time goes by. 

That's a bad thing and why it is the owner's responsibility to crack down on any behavior that crosses the line, even when you personally feel it is called for. 

Because honestly, there will always be dogs who will rub your dog the wrong way through no fault of their own. My previous guy (Danny) would growl at black dogs (didn't matter what breed) and he was certainly "alert" about them. His glitch. Our collie has the same problem with other collies and also mastiff/akita/boxer type dogs. The other dogs must have had a certain "threatening" look to them that set him off.

For the collie it probably isn't too huge a deal because he is a homebody and doesn't have to be anywhere where there are a lot of dogs. But with Danny I had visions of getting kicked out of the obedience ring because of my dog starting fights with some big black briard or other dog that probably could rip his face off. o_o


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## kellange123 (Apr 13, 2007)

I totally agree that it has a lot to do with the individual dog. My Daisy can get pretty aggressive if a dog gets aggressive with her. We had a neighbor dog run barking and growling at my daughter (who was in a stroller) and myself walking with Daisy. I had never seen her get so aggressive. She literally flipped that dog on the group and grabbed its neck. She backed off when I called her back and that dog took off. That dog has never bothered us since.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

kellange123 said:


> I totally agree that it has a lot to do with the individual dog. My Daisy can get pretty aggressive if a dog gets aggressive with her. We had a neighbor dog run barking and growling at my daughter (who was in a stroller) and myself walking with Daisy. I had never seen her get so aggressive. She literally flipped that dog on the group and grabbed its neck. She backed off when I called her back and that dog took off. That dog has never bothered us since.


Good Daisy  Sometimes dogs can settle things between themselves much better than if we intervene. Sometimes I think we don't give them enough credit.


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

Megora said:


> This is a problem though when taking your dog in public where there are other dogs around. If you allow that kind of behavior, then it might teach your dog to be more dog aggressive or fear aggressive as time goes by. Because by not correcting the behavior, you are giving your OK to the behavior.


*EDIT* Actually I do agree somewhat with what you wrote. But, again, if I see what I deem to be an appropriate, rationale response to a behaviour a dog is exhibiting I am not going to correct him.

An example: 

I have found that Harley is very receptive to other dogs and has an abundance of patience for every dog. He doesn't go out of his way to dominate anything and he is far from aggressive. He is very passive and for the most part assumes submissive roles when play-fighting with everybody. But, if another dog humps him he gets uncomfortable and he is rather plain with his body language. His tail goes up, he stops playing, his ears go up and he postures. Harley takes a lot of prodding, but if a dog continues to try to hump him he snarks... and I'm not one to correct that. Is it wrong? I guess that's up to interpretation. None of the regulars (even the most humpy of them) try to hump Harley. He doesn't abide it and if it bothers him... I'm not going to correct him for letting it known.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Harley takes a lot of prodding, but if a dog continues to try to hump him he snarks... and I'm not one to correct that. Is it wrong?


In this case I agree... somewhat. 

But then I also do not let my dog get into that type of situation. 

*laughs* I have a picture somewhere of my Danny when he was a 4 month old puppy and we were going to a puppy get together at his breeder's. There was one golden puppy who was following Dee around and either trying to pin him or hump him. 

His owner was NOWHERE IN SIGHT and I just got ticked off that his horrible untrained puppy was assaulting my baby who had his ears all the way back and was showing all of the signs of stress from the clingon pyranna stalking him when he wanted to play with the other nicer puppies. 

My mom or somebody took the picture moments before I swooped in and swiped the little monster off and swooped my dog off to safety. 

And that is still my way of handling issues like that. Case in point when I was taking our neighbor's loose St. Bernard back home, I had Jacks with me (we were going out for a walk). The St. Bernard was maneuvering and trying to mount Jacks. I recognized what he was doing and corrected the St. Bernard. He stopped. End of the problem. 

And overall I avoid putting my dog in a situation like the one you described. ie, no dog parks.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I don't correct Daisy for that type of situation either. Sometimes it happens before I can react, but not before Daisy does  I will remove her from the situation if it continues but usually one firm response from Daisy is enough to end it. If not though, I most certainly will.

But I have to qualify that by saying that I'm only comfortable letting Daisy handle situations like that when we know the dog. If it's a dog we don't know, forget it, I'm handling it myself. Not because I don't trust Daisy but because I don't trust the other dog.


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## C's Mom (Dec 7, 2009)

MILLIESMOM said:


> . Her picture in my avatar says it all, the look "Come on make my day"


Loving this pic of Millie.


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## C's Mom (Dec 7, 2009)

Rctriplefresh5! said:


> theyre big strong dogs...so i dont see why not?
> whos mr c


Mr. C is my dog Cocasse.


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