# Puppy Muzzle/Snout Size as Adult



## mondaypup (Mar 16, 2014)

Hello, 

I am looking for a golden puppy and wanted your expert opinions on how you can tell what the dog will look like as an adult. 

Will this puppy (pic below) grow up to look more like an American or an English golden? I am particularly concerned about the length/size of its snout/muzzle as I do not want it to look too long/narrow proportionate to its head.

The puppy pictures in attachment are of the same puppy that we have in mind (different angles). I've also attached same pictures of adult dogs from the internet as comparison.

From your experience, what type of snout/muzzle will the puppy have?

Many thanks in advance


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## mondaypup (Mar 16, 2014)

*Snout/Muzzle Size*

Hello, 

I am looking for a golden puppy and wanted your expert opinions on how you can tell what the dog will look like as an adult. 

Will this puppy (pic below) grow up to look more like an American or an English golden? I am particularly concerned about the length/size of its snout/muzzle as I do not want it to look too long/narrow proportionate to its head.

The puppy pictures in attachment are of the same puppy that we have in mind (different angles). I've also attached same pictures of adult dogs from the internet as comparison.

From your experience, what type of snout/muzzle will the puppy have?

Many thanks in advance


Sorry, I guess I used the word "muzzle" wrong. I'm not looking for a muzzle - I thought snout and muzzle was interchangable but I'm asking about the snout shape/size of the puppy.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

What do the pup's parents look like? They would be your best indicator as to what this pup has the potential to grow into. What does the breeder say the pups take after most (dam or sire)? Is this a repeat litter? If so, what did those pups end up looking like? Is this the first litter for either the dam or sire? If not, what does their offspring look like?

More importantly, does the dam & sire have the 4 minimum clearances (that you verified for yourself at offa.org) of OFA hips/elbows, cardiologist cleared heart & annual eye exams? Moreover, are these clearances complete throughout the pedigree? Does this breeder compete in some venue with his/her goldens or is he/she just breeding what's available out back? How does this breeder socialize the pups? Different sights, sounds, surfaces... If you can't answer these questions, I think you have more to worry about than the muzzle on the pup in the pic.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

You have pics of the pup, do you have pics of the parents? Knowing what they look like is the key. I agree with Sheets the shape of the muzzle should only come into play once you know you are dealing with a reputable breeder.


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## gldnboys (Mar 15, 2012)

I agree with the above posters, and would also like to add that a reputable breeder should know their dogs and their lines well enough to be able to answer questions such as the one you're asking about muzzle size. Be sure to do your research when looking for a good breeder. There is lots of great information here on this site, and we will be happy to give you guidance.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

What do the pup's parents look like? They would be your best indicator as to what this pup has the potential to grow into. What does the breeder say the pups take after most (dam or sire)? Is this a repeat litter? If so, what did those pups end up looking like? Is this the first litter for either the dam or sire? If not, what does their offspring look like?

More importantly, does the dam & sire have the 4 minimum clearances (that you verified for yourself at offa.org) of OFA hips/elbows, cardiologist cleared heart & annual eye exams? Moreover, are these clearances complete throughout the pedigree? Does this breeder compete in some venue with his/her goldens or is he/she just breeding what's available out back? How does this breeder socialize the pups? Different sights, sounds, surfaces... If you can't answer these questions, I think you have more to worry about than the muzzle on the pup in the pic.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

I merged your two threads. 

What do they parents look like? If their heads are not something you like, don't expect the puppy to look much different. Health and temperament are FAR more important than a headpiece. I like a good head just as much as the next person but health clearances and temperament always come first.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Looking at the parents' pics (I assume the reddish dog is the female and the blondie is the dad) - I get the impression this is one of those breedings where it wasn't so much a planned and plotted breeding with the breeder really selectively breeding dogs for a specific LOOK and purpose. 

When they are just breeding what they have to produce puppies.... it would be impossible to say how the puppies will turn out - and I'd be surprised if the breeders would be able to honestly tell you. 

My experience in talking with friends who are really good breeders and really planning on litters a year or more ahead.... they talk about the faults their dogs have and really go out looking for mates who compensate for those faults. Less chance of the puppies inheriting snipey noses or whatnot. 

Those are the types of breeders you probably want to look for if it matters to you purchasing a puppy who will have certain "look" when he grows up.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

The adult dogs are "from the internet" not necessarily the parents.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Sally's Mom said:


> The adult dogs are "from the internet" not necessarily the parents.


Doh! I missed that in the OP's post. 

Um still.... some breeders will be breeding for nicer heads - meaning selectively breeding. Don't fall for any stuff printed on websites with so-called differences between American and English goldens. A lot of that is biased nonsense that gets shared again and again because somebody has a puppy to sell you.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

I will also say this-- my very good friend was about to send pups home based on conformation and temperament testing results. The litter was very cute, all clearances in place, titled parents, well socialized from day 1. A family was to be receiving a pup and upon learning they were getting a puppy with a zipper (cowlick) they began to essentially complain and overanalyze how the puppy would look grown up. It seemed they wouldn't be happy with the puppy unless he had a perfect head. You can never guarantee what a puppy will look like. There are variations in every litter. They aren't xerox copies of one another or their parents. Needless to say, the breeder sent them packing. At the end of the day, health and temperament are FAR more important than a cowlick or broad head vs snipey, etc.


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## kellyguy (Mar 5, 2014)

What is snipey for my education?


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## gldnboys (Mar 15, 2012)

kellyguy said:


> What is snipey for my education?


It's when the muzzle is narrow, or in extreme cases even on the pointy side.


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## Bosn'sMom (Feb 11, 2013)

def. ask the breeder, however, i have heard if you wait to neuter (wait longer than 6 months) their faces are more defined. Could be an urban myth though.


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## SkiSoccerFamily (Jan 9, 2014)

CarolinaCasey said:


> I will also say this-- my very good friend was about to send pups home based on conformation and temperament testing results. The litter was very cute, all clearances in place, titled parents, well socialized from day 1. A family was to be receiving a pup and upon learning they were getting a puppy with a zipper (cowlick) they began to essentially complain and overanalyze how the puppy would look grown up. It seemed they wouldn't be happy with the puppy unless he had a perfect head. You can never guarantee what a puppy will look like. There are variations in every litter. They aren't xerox copies of one another or their parents. Needless to say, the breeder sent them packing. At the end of the day, health and temperament are FAR more important than a cowlick or broad head vs snipey, etc.


Great info! Our dog has a little black mark on his snout (I call it a freckle but am sure there's a proper term for it). He came from an awesome breeder - the parents have all clearances, she tests for temperament, they are socialized, receive neurological stimulation, etc. He's an amazing dog. Funny enough, we could tell him apart from his littermates because of the black mark near his nose, and our entire family thinks it's so cute! We love it.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

That'd be a black spot phenomenon - an autosomal mutation from one of the cells at the midline when puppy was in utero.
They are cute when they look like a beauty mark!


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

Bosn'sMom said:


> def. ask the breeder, however, i have heard if you wait to neuter (wait longer than 6 months) their faces are more defined. Could be an urban myth though.


Interesting. I have never heard of this.


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## Jaime (Oct 8, 2012)

Our Gracie has a zipper up her forehead - I think it's adorable and sets her apart. She had a sister with one as well. All these particulars become so unimportant when you begin to bond with your puppy, and can't imagine your world without them


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## Mkeithddc (Jan 18, 2018)

OMG, I was looking for a answer about a puppy I got. What did I get myself into here. This is the most bizarre stuff I've ever heard of.
It's a freaking dog people. "snipey"!?!? Wow, just....... wow.... 
I've never heard such pretentious nonsense ever in my life. Who cares what the "snout" looks like. A dog is a dog.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Mkeithddc said:


> OMG, I was looking for a answer about a puppy I got. What did I get myself into here. This is the most bizarre stuff I've ever heard of.
> It's a freaking dog people. "snipey"!?!? Wow, just....... wow....
> I've never heard such pretentious nonsense ever in my life. Who cares what the "snout" looks like. A dog is a dog.


Some people care very much- show dogs don't typically have a snipey muzzle for example, and a very snipey muzzle might indicate comprimised jaw.. lack of eye fill comes w snipey muzzles... oftentimes snipey muzzles have got too little flew as well. 

Of course very dog has faults, there never been a perfect dog. If everyone refused to educate themselves further because the material doesn't say what they want it to say, then the breed would be in big trouble. 
Do I think a pet person should throw a fit if they are assigned the pup w a zipper? No. I would have sent them packing too. But I do think that choosing a litter likely to make a nice headpiece is a smart move if a lovely head matters to you.


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## Borisdog (Jan 18, 2018)

As a rule of thumb, the colour of the dog's ears is a good measure of what their coat will look like as they grow older. However, as SheetsSM has identified, the best indicator of that is the appearance of the pup's parents. For example, our dog, Boris had 'gingery' ears like an American golden but his coat turned dark blond like an English. Indeed, this resembled his mother's coat and father's ear colour. The shape of the cranium is discernible from when you first get them, as for the snout, I am unsure...


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

It’s funny. They can change so much. 8 weeks to 9 months I would have never dreamed he would grow up to look like this.


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## Evarlette (Jan 20, 2018)

Hello! I have a 10 month old male puppy. We got him at 7 weeks and he changed so much since. His parents are both reddish but I never thought he will change his coat from very light one to what he’s now! Here are some pics of Louie!!


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## Mkeithddc (Jan 18, 2018)

"make a nice headpiece"




....................................
..
.


Everything you just said, is whats wrong with this world.
There are animals dying in shelters, and you people are trying to make this super dog. The very idea of breeding is sick. Pure 
breds are always going to make more issues than a mixed(normal) dog. This is natural selection. Nature will, over time, weed out the weakness and sicknesses that dogs can have. 

https://www.peta.org/issues/compani...s-factsheets/akc-dog-breeders-partners-crime/


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Keith you do realize you are citing an extremist group that wants and companion animals out of our lives, right? 

You may also want to look in to the copious amounts of time, money and effort pure bred dog organizations and owners are putting into research on dog health. This research benefits all dogs including randomly bred dogs and some has even helped human health researchers. 

You might also want to consider if a randomly bred dog is a good fit for every family or every need. Most breeds exist to fit a purpose such as the way that Goldens and Labs are go to breeds for assistance dogs or the Belgian shepherd breeds for police/security work.

Something else you may want to investigate is the true status of over population in the US. You may find you are working off of old data or organizations pushing the agenda to spay and neuter dogs right out of our lives. Golden Retrievers in particular are hard to adopt so much so it has become quite common for Goldens to have to be imported from other countries to supply the US demand for “rescued” Goldens.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Mkeithddc said:


> "make a nice headpiece"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Evarlette (Jan 20, 2018)

I would say he or she won’t look any different than the parents. American or Field Golden Retrievers tend to have a slimmer snout than the English cream Goldens. My puppy is a field holden and his snout is still slim. He is now 10 months old. Here are the pics of him at 8 weeks and now.


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