# Nuvet and health guarantee



## 1redhead (Jan 22, 2011)

The breeder we're getting our pup from has something in their health guarantee about using Nuvet vitamins. It that says they will only honor their lifetime health guarantee if we use nuvet vitamins for 2 years.

When I was filling out the questionnaire I write I'd have to research it and speak to our vet before committing. That was over a month ago and now when we're about to get our pup she sent something asking whether we had ordered the vitamins yet.

I responded that I had thought she had read what I wrote on the initial questionnaire and was OK w/ us not agreeing.

Does anyone have any thoughts about how to proceed? I don't want to get our pup w/o the guarantee but I know my vet is more into the health of pups than the breeder and will go w/ his recs. The breeder feeds the pups Purina which I would not do. I'll feed only the best no grain diet w/ raw.

I've written her saying I understand her wanting to make sure people take the best care of their pups but she knows my level of dedication to health so she doesn't have to worry about that.

I don't want to get into that I think this is borderline unethical imo and if she hadn't come so highly recommended I wouldn't have gone w/ her.

Thanks for your help!


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Many back yard breeders use Nuvet as an additional supplement to their income, not because it has any health benefits... (I'm not convinced either way). Who recommended the breeder to you? A local GR club, friends/family, the GRF forum? I'd be more concerned with the following:

Have you verified the sire/dam of the litter's health clearances (hips, elbows, heart, and eyes) on www.offa.org? You need their AKC registered names. This is of more concern to me than the NuVet.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

BIG RED FLAG!!!! Have you seen all the health clearances on her dogs.....hips, elbows, CERF and heart check by a cardiologist? Do they abide by the GRCA code of ethics? I would bet not. Several years ago I researched NuVet.... well, what there was to research. I could find no analysis of what it contained? How much of each ingredient? They promise it to be a be all, end all...... pretty much snake oil in my book.

I would strongly urge you to study the puppy buyers guide here and also go to the GRCA site and look at the code of ethics and how to find a quality breeder. Contact your local golden retriever club and ask for referrals.


http://www.grca.org/allabout/a_find.html


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## Phillyfisher (Jan 9, 2008)

I will let the others here who know about Nuvet respond. I will tell you this, trust your gut, if you think something is not right check into EVERYTHING. A couple of questions, have you seen the breeders OFA certifications for the dam and sire's hips, elbows, thyroid, etc? Are the dam and sire older than 2? Does the breeder show her dogs? Involved in GRCA? Check out the buying a puppy section here at GRF. Better to find out now if there is an issue, even if it means waiting longer for a puppy. It will save you a lot of heartache.

BTW welcome to the forum! You will find a lot of help here, from a lot of different people!


Sorry this was said earlier! A lot of us posted at the same time!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

The Nuvet thing is possibly a seperate issue... I think a lot of people give vitamins to their puppies to ensure healthy growth. It probably doesn't help, but it assume it doesn't hurt anything either. 

The Purina thing too is probably not something I'd worry about. It's better than if they were feeding Pedigree or something like that. 

But make sure you have all the clearances and take a look at the pedigrees on both sides. If there are no issues...


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I am one who does supplement. However, I would never use a product such as NuVet. If I'm giving vit A (for example), I want to know how many mgs I'm giving. They list No values for any of their ingredients. Also, the breeder verifies that you are following through because you order under their number and, in turn, they receive a percentage. SNAKE OIL


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

To me telling someone that they will not guarantee a dog if they dont use a certain item like Nuvet is just wrong. That stuff is not going to make the difference in a healthy puppy or if the hips,elbows, eyes or heart are going to good in a puppy. The only thing that will help to insure that is the breeder doing the proper clearances and making sure that the stud's owner does also. And the previous generations are done also. Still nothing can guarantee anything 100% but you have a heck of a better chance than any thing like nuvet. And also following the GRCA guidelines.


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## bioteach (Nov 13, 2010)

Our breeder discussed all of the clearances (eyes, hips, heart, etc.) as her top priority and give us the paperwork to prove it. She did recommend keeping our pup on Natural Balance that he had been eating but gave us the freedom to feed whatever we liked - just to make a gradual change.

I truly believe that this is what good breeding is all about.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

1redhead said:


> The breeder we're getting our pup from has something in their health guarantee about using Nuvet vitamins. It that says they will only honor their lifetime health guarantee if we use nuvet vitamins for 2 years.
> 
> When I was filling out the questionnaire I write I'd have to research it and speak to our vet before committing. That was over a month ago and now when we're about to get our pup she sent something asking whether we had ordered the vitamins yet.
> 
> ...


Ridiculous, and a pyramid scheme to sell the snake oil. RUN.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

I wonder how much money this "breeder" makes off NuVet? Definitely appears to me she has some stake in the company.

No way I'd agree to shell out big bucks for a vitimin supplement as a condition to buying a puppy. Shouldn't the "breeder" be more concerned with the kind of home and lifestyle the dog will have? Big red flag. I'd run the other way.


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## 1redhead (Jan 22, 2011)

How I found her was a breeder I've gotten to know knew she would have pups soon.

She's done all the tests on the parents except I don't see elbows on the dam. I'll have to find out about that. They're listed on OFFA.org. 

Both over 2 years old. Dam was born in 2007. Sire in 2004. Sire finished his CHampionship in 2005. The breeder has about 2 litters a year so that all seemed fine to me.

The dam has had one litter a year ago.

This all seems fine to me except for this nuvet thing. I don't want to run away just bc of that although, I wish she had responded to me when I first brought up my concerns.

My 10 year old child is waiting for this dog so other than this, maybe I have to swallow a bitter somewhat unethical pill along w/ what looks like a healthy dog. i think it stinks but I don't want to throw it all away bc of her lack of common sense, do you think?


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

1redhead said:


> How I found her was a breeder I've gotten to know knew she would have pups soon.
> 
> She's done all the tests on the parents except I don't see elbows on the dam. I'll have to find out about that. They're listed on OFFA.org.
> 
> ...


I cannot swallow an unethical pill no matter how much sugar it is coated with. What a lesson for your 10 year old child... learning that Mom & Dad stand by their convictions when it comes to honesty, ethics, and integrity.


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## 1redhead (Jan 22, 2011)

Pointgold said:


> I cannot swallow an unethical pill no matter how much sugar it is coated with. What a lesson for your 10 year old child... learning that Mom & Dad stand by their convictions when it comes to honesty, ethics, and integrity.


Oh I can't believe I wrote a whole long post and it didn't get saved. 

So what I was saying was I'm trying to untangle this all.

There's a lot of this that goes on. Many vets and health practitioners have you buy their vitamins that they sell. Or doctors have you do procedures in their facilities that they own. My husband went to a highly regarded cardiologist who had him do a very expensive MRI which I wonder now whether it was unnecessary. Was his interest in him doing it partially effected by his financial gain? I don't know and of course, you don't HAVE to do these but I've seen health practitoners who make it very hard to see them w/o buying all their stuff.

So, I want a happy heathy dog. It looks like from her testing, she's done that. 

So do I not get this dog bc of the vitamin thing. Yes, it certainly sticks in my craw but am I abetting unethical behavior? Mmmm.... I guess maybe just as much as if I go to a doctor who sells his/her supplements or owns a facility. It's all a conflict of interest I think. I don't like it. But do I cut off my nose to spite my face? Ot is it?

I don't know. I'm thinking as I'm writing.
Thanks for helping me think this through.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

I wouls avoid this breeder like the plague. 

You have to feed "brand X" or the warranty is void? Huge red flag!


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

This is different than a doctor having a test run which has an established efficacy in diagnosing disease. This supplement has no scientific testing of any sort behind it, makes all sorts of wild claims (ie it can "cure or substantially improve" cataracts, Addisons, Cushings, etc, etc, etc) which are hogwash, and the *breeder gets a kickback* from the company by getting you to buy it. The NuVet site itself cites problems emerging from food ingredients which are in the food the breeder feeds!! Does this not seem contradictory? Buy these or your guarantee is void, but we'll feed a food that according to the supplement company is part of the problem?!? If they really believed what NuVet was spewing why would they continue to feed the food they are? Just highlights that this is a way to get more money out of your pocket after you've left with the puppy. Not the sort of person I'd want to be trusting to provide me with a healthy, well-bred new family member.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

In my opinion...it is okay to recommend a vitamin but to void the contract if the dog is not on it is absurd! Do they really think that vitamin is going to cure all....??

I had a friend who bought a dog from a breeder that did that and guess what dog was hip dyslasia at a year old!

It sounds like they will try to have you give the dogs the vitamins and if you do not give it for even for one month...they will void the contract. Just a way to make it look like it was your fault that the dog has hip dysplasia and not on them. 

I would ask how long has her dogs been on nuvet and why she insist on it so much?


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

True, most vets do sell products that they suggest, but that doesn't mean it's the best product, and insisting that you buy it from them to me is a scam. 

You want a healthy, happy dog, I get that. But how much more is it going to cost you to buy the vitamins? I guess that would be a question to ask. Is it $10 a month, or $40? that's a lot of money over 2 years for something that isn't really needed. Has she really done elbows? If she has hips on OFFA but not elbows, HUGE red flag - they're usually done at the same time so why aren't they there? If she's already had a litter with this female they SHOULD be there, no excuses. What titles does she have on the dogs, does she own both parents? All things to consider. If the dogs are lacking in any sort of titles, not good. If she owns the sire and seems to only breed within her household of dogs, and nobody else is using her boy (you can check on k9data) that's a huge red flag too. After all if her boy is nice and has something to offer to the breed, other breeders would be using him at some point.

And while most doctors and vets do sell things, most don't say 'if you don't buy this here I will refuse to see you again' - most will give alternative products you can buy on your own and aren't so concerned about the bottom line of selling things over their job as a Dr.

Your ten year old might be disappointed, sure, but it's a lesson in life that you need to make sure everything is lined up the right way and not to just get bullied into a choice. You can show him clearances and talk about the different events and look at pedigrees on k9data and make it a good educational experience if you have to switch breeders - if you let us know where you are there might be someone who knows where to go in your area too.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

It also gives them an "out" should they want to void your guarantee....

If, heaven forbid, there is a health problem....they know exactly how much you have been buying from NuVet and if the number of pills doesnt match then voila..your 'guarantee' if void...

It creeps me out that i would be giving my dog any sort of supplement that doesn't list exactly what/how much is in it...


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## Kally76 (Jun 14, 2010)

I found this and it is describing how hard it has been to review it, because of how the company sells it.

Which Dog Vitamin Supplement Workds Best? - Unbiased Experts Review The Most Popular Dog Vitamins Supplements


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

Did a quick look, and it would cost you an extra $20 or so a month to use that, depending on what size bottle and shipping. Now on another website, someone said they make 50% of the price of the product for 'selling' it. In other words, if that's all true, for each pup on that the breeder gets an extra $10 a month - or $220 per pup if you use it for the two years. And it seems to be very popular with byb's to push too as 'extra income'. Something fishy about the whole thing!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

:doh:


1redhead said:


> Oh I can't believe I wrote a whole long post and it didn't get saved.
> 
> So what I was saying was I'm trying to untangle this all.
> 
> ...


You really sound like you are trying to convince yourself/justify that this is okay. It is not at all the same thing as a vet selling products. They do not base honoring a guarantee on whether you use it or not. The product is nothing more than S N A K E O I L - it is a pyramid scheme. 
The product, for years, has been sold this way by puppy millers and back yard breeders, eager to make an extra buck. And, because there is a VERY good chance that many, if not most, puppy buyers are NOT going to keep their dogs on it for very long (let alone their lifetime) they won't have to honor a guarantee - hip and elbow dysplasia, eye disease, heart disease, thryroid disease - too bad for you when the dogs have it. You didn't use NuVet! And NuVet tracks it for the "breeders", sends them a monthly statement, and if you are not on it, Poof! You're outta luck.
Real nice.

Oh - I say "snake oil" because they have claimed that it prevents and/or cures EVERYTHING. Even cancer.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

There are breeders here in Maine selling Nuvet... there is at least one breeder here, whose contract for dysplasia is void if you didn't feed Vitamin C. In fact, you have to save all the receipts from the purchases!! I think that any time a breeder says you have to feed something be it food or supplement to fullfill a contract, you should consider looking elsewhere for a dog.


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