# Discipline



## Zoeys mom (Apr 26, 2008)

How do you discipline your dog when it is naughty? What would you do if your golden was found standing on your kitchen table, or counter surfing or just about anything else?

Just curious.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Zoeys mom said:


> How do you discipline your dog when it is naughty? What would you do if your golden was found standing on your kitchen table, or counter surfing or just about anything else?
> 
> Just curious.


Me? I would probably laugh hysterically if they were on the kitchen table!

Sounds like you need to keep a leash on the dog and use the "off" command when he/she tries to get something off from the counter or tries to get on the table. Just grab the leash, say "off" and pull the dog away. No yanking or yelling. He/she will catch onto the command very quickly.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I would tell her to get down in a voice she understands is not my happy voice, and then I would try to anticipate when she does this so I can interrupt the behavior in the future. 

I think one of the tricks is to prevent the unwanted behavior from being practiced ... don't let it happen


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I think you tell him to "get down" with your strict voice. And then when you are in the room away from him, laugh your head off because he looked so funny on the table.


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## Zoeys mom (Apr 26, 2008)

Zoey hasnt done these things but my brother and I were discussing how to discipline a pet. I dont know if I could keep serious if I saw her on the table cause it would be so out of charachter for her.


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## Thor0918 (Feb 28, 2008)

Yup, laughter is the best medicine!


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

The first time my dog was on the table I'd laugh! But it wouldn't be so funny if I had my holiday meal up their and found my dog on the table....

The only thing that I had issues with when Lucky was older was jumping on the sofa when we were gone. With the new sofa came new (no dogs on the sofa" rules.

I'd walk in and see him on the sofa and I would act outraged and he jumped off.

I'm pretty sure he knows now to jump off the sofa when he hears the car pull up....


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I don't like to think of it as "discipline" anymore. Instead, I try to interrupt the problem behaviors and provide alternative behaviors. Like when I'm cooking, I avoid a situation where I need discipline them for begging or countersurfing. Instead I teach them where I want them to sit (just outside the kitchen door), and I reward them when they do it.

I've found (and behavioral science backs me up here) that using aversive stimuli doesn't ingrain behaviors as firmly or for as long as positively reinforcing alternatives does.

There are a few things I haven't figured out how to alternatively reinforce, and I use a loud, sharp voice for those, though I still always search for some positive behavior to redirect the dog to. For example, if I call "come" and the dog wants to ignore me in favor of a distraction, I'll say "ack ack ack!" to try to break through his distraction, and then provide him a chance to successfully "come" and be rewarded. I'd only use that negative interruption, though, if the dog fully understood "come." It has no place in the teaching phase.

I've completely abandoned the scruff shake and the alpha roll, because a fear of physical danger can bring out aggression in dogs, and again, the positive reinforcement creates a deeper, longer-lasting sense of the rules and a happier, better adjusted dog.


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## AcesWild (Nov 29, 2008)

Today was cleaning the dishes and moxie was sniffing around the kitchen. She had just stolen a potatoe skin off my mom's plate and was begging for more food. I did my "angry" get out voice and my father jumped. 

Whoops.

That angry voice stops all behavior with her from unnecessary licking to begging for food.The only thing it doesn't do is get her to calm down when she sees a squirrel or another dog she wants to greet. We're still working on that.


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## Phiddler (Sep 1, 2008)

Teaching an alternative behavior is much more effective and easier than trying to change an existing behavior. Someone on GRF suggested teaching a dog to sit when they want something (as opposed to jumping) and I have found it to be very effective. It is also charming when Zip runs up to someone very excited and sits in front them anxiously. What I did (and do) is teach him that all the things that used to mean "jump up" now mean "sit," like holding a squeaky toy over my head, waving a treat up high, etc.

For you, you might put something really enticing on the table and when the dogs sits, he gets a click or "good" and then a treat. You can also use this as an opportunity to teach "leave it."


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Phiddler said:


> Someone on GRF suggested teaching a dog to sit when they want something (as opposed to jumping) and I have found it to be very effective. It is also charming when Zip runs up to someone very excited and sits in front them anxiously. What I did (and do) is teach him that all the things that used to mean "jump up" now mean "sit," like holding a squeaky toy over my head, waving a treat up high, etc.


I love it when they learn that a "sit" is the best way to express their excitement. They look up with such excitement and happiness. It's so winning.

And showing your dog all the things guests might do and teaching him that "sit" is the right response is simply brilliant. I try to think of the things that dog-fearing strangers might do, like throw arms up, scream, step back, etc., and teach my dogs that sitting gets a reward.

It works too. Our neighbor's kid, who loves dogs, screamed and threw her arms up (in excitement, not fear), and Comet immediately jumped back and sat; had he not been positively trained for that situation he might have jumped up on her or knocked her over.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

I think it depends on the dog and the severity of the problem. For the most part all that is really needed is your voice (if your dog believes you  But if it is as bad as outright aggression I have a zero tolerance policy.


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## jnmarr (Mar 7, 2008)

Am I right to assume you found your dog on your table? Normally I use a soft uh uh and redirect.. but if they were already up there it would be " OFF! " then praise for getting off . Then I would figure out how I could manage the situation so it wouldn't happen again. 

The trouble with stealing behaviors.. like table/counter surfing.. if they are self rewarding behaviors. If he ate a hot dog, while on the table.. he has already been rewarded for being up there.. No matter what you do to him at this point.. won't be associated with him being up there. It is very hard, but there has to be no food within reach of him.. You might want to use baby gates for the time he can't be supervised and even teach him to lie in a door way in your site while food is being prepared. 

Leave it... is a good command, too. 

In answer to your question.. I suppose it would be I prefer management to discipline .. to keep the unwanted behavior from starting.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

jnmarr said:


> In answer to your question.. I suppose it would be I prefer management to discipline .. to keep the unwanted behavior from starting.


I so completely agree with this. It's a much more humane and effective way to think about dog training. Punishing problem behavior simply does not work as well as redirection and creative, positive alternatives.


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## Merlins mom (Jun 20, 2007)

I am laughing so hard here. As I was reading your post and got to the 'ack ack ack" part, I said it out loud and Merlin jumped up out of a dead sleep to find out what the heck I was doing. LOL!! This is worth a try next time I need distraction. 



tippykayak said:


> There are a few things I haven't figured out how to alternatively reinforce, and I use a loud, sharp voice for those, though I still always search for some positive behavior to redirect the dog to. For example, if I call "come" and the dog wants to ignore me in favor of a distraction, I'll say "*ack ack ack!*" to try to break through his distraction, and then provide him a chance to successfully "come" and be rewarded. I'd only use that negative interruption, though, if the dog fully understood "come." It has no place in the teaching phase.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Merlins mom said:


> I am laughing so hard here. As I was reading your post and got to the 'ack ack ack" part, I said it out loud and Merlin jumped up out of a dead sleep to find out what the heck I was doing. LOL!! This is worth a try next time I need distraction.


LOL. Had Merlin not heard that one before? It's a great noise for breaking through to get a dog's attention.


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