# prong collar..?



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

It works like a charm... I can tame the most obnoxious beast on earth in ten minutes or less with a prong. I don't need one with any of my dogs- you'd have to be a crackhead to put one on a greyhound or a whippet IMO- but they are very useful with some young dogs of the stronger and more stubborn type- Goldens, Rotties, Labs, pits, etc.... and they are much safer than a choker and are self correcting. Be sure to fit it correctly and have somebody show you how to use it if in doubt.


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## mainegirl (May 2, 2005)

I have always used the prong collar with initial training. All three of my dogs have learned very fast not to pull and to listen. After a short time I still put the prong collar on but use the regular collar, that way they don't know which I am using, then I slowly wean them off the prong and they listen and do as well with the regular collar. My maniac dog.... angel the termite is taking a little longer, but it is helping, she would jump like crazy if i didn't use it, and she had a femoral head fracture before I got her as a rescue.

beth, moose and angel


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## Rastadog (Oct 24, 2006)

*I have used the prong collar a lot*

I used it for training high level competition obedience. It is an invaluable tool which I used as a communication device. Used in the correct way there is nothing mean or nasty about it. I've trained just putting the prong collar on making it a positive. You can also train a motavational pop. Dogs can be taught that the pop is a good thing. Remember the collar can be fit so you can control how tight it gets. It makes correction smaller and quicker which helps a lot with timing. Using the collar pictured you willhave to move your hand 2-3 times as far to correction. That affects timing and it real is about communicating with your partner in the ring. For home trainig I haven't used it because presicion is not the issue. If I had an issue at home that I thought using a prong would help I would use it in a heartbeat. BTW I was anti-prong until my first dog was three. So I do understand the emotions this topic raises.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I have used the prong collar on all my dogs..... Maggie doesnt need it to much anymore...by that I mean I walk her on a regular collar but when out in public places with alot of dogs around I use the prong.... she's not fond of female dogs and we have encountered many times people letting there female run up in Maggies face.... I agree there isnt anything mean or hurtful if you use it right.


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## Griffyn'sMom (Mar 22, 2007)

I'm so glad to see that others use the prong - I fought it and fought it and I had "Golden friends" that swear by it. 

Without it my arms were pretty buff - Griff is very strong - but one day he lunged unexpectedly towards his buddy - a lab pup and he took my youngest son out - SPLAT! Right on the pavement. 

So... with their urging I broke down and got the prong - while Griff is still not perfect, it keeps him under control and it does get his attention. (And yes - I put it on myself first to make sure it wasn't going to hurt him - it's an even pressure all around - an uncomfortable feeling but it didn't hurt.)

Is it a cure all for training? NO! Griff and I still need more training classes. But does it help someone with a light frame manage a big dog? Yes.


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## Angel_Kody (Feb 27, 2007)

prong collar = power steering. (if used properly...of course )


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Power steering... I used them a long time ago. They worked well and I didn't need to use corrections at all. Yikes...LOL Cindy, I didn't read the replies!!!


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## paulbridges02 (Jul 2, 2007)

We used a prong coller with my Dad's English Bull dog when he was younger to keep him from pulling. He had so much weight and such a low center of gravity he could pull a Mac truck. It worked great, but you have to stay aware that they are wearing it and not abuse it.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

It's way better than a halti- I hate those **** things... silly looking, annoying, dangerous (dogs can die hitting the end of a lead with a halti on) and definitely no substitute for training (which is much easier with a prong). 

Just my opinon, I know plenty wont agree... but I will always suggest a prong, never a halti


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Prongs can work really well for pulling, but IMO, should never be used on dogs with arousal or aggression issues. Correcting a dog on a pinch in the presence of a trigger (whatever is making the dog go off) is a sure-fire recipe for making the arousal or aggression worse.


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## kowey (Feb 28, 2006)

Likewise, we have used every sort of colar, head gear, halter, etc.... the only thing that worked for our "Double" was the gentle leader. As a matter of fact, the prong collar was one of the worst....:no:


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Like I keep saying ,you use what works best for your dog......


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## Goldndust (Jul 30, 2005)

> does anyone here have any experience with the prong collar?? does it work? anyone have any thoughts about it??


It works if one uses it consistantly and correctly. Remember, the collar doesn't train the dog and dog first must be shown what is asked of it by way of training, in this case "Heeling". Teaching heel will take longer then many of the other commands such as sit, down, etc. One may find the dog does excellent in there yard on heel, then take them down the road and find the dog looses it's brains and totally looses the heel as you have. This is do to the higher level of distractions out there, one will find this in any tool they choose to use. The key is in the consistancy of the the use of the tool, if one is not consistant with the tool used, it will not work.

The thing about the pinch collar is, they are self correcting. But that is only if the owner were to let them get ahead in which one does not want to do if there teaching heel at the time. So the corrections would have to be given by the trainer themselves when teaching heel if needed once the golden knows and fully understands what and where he/she is sopposed to be.

All the dogs i've worked with in OB training have been into the pinch collar for teaching heel. Kody is now out of the pinch and into a plain buckle red collar. The idea is teach first, then train by way of tool if needed, then move them out of said tool, no matter what tool one chooses to use. But the main thing to remember is, the tool doesn't do the training, if it fails it is because the handler failed, not the dog and not the tool.



> but IMO, should never be used on dogs with arousal or aggression issues. Correcting a dog on a pinch in the presence of a trigger (whatever is making the dog go off) is a sure-fire recipe for making the arousal or aggression worse.
> __________________


No Steph, this is not so. All dogs will have a trigger when learning, it's not the tool that causes harm used properly, it's the inconsistancy in the use of the tool as well as the timing that are wrong that will make a tool or break a tool. But in reality it isn't the tool that failed, it's the one using the tool that failed and they most likely need help by way of use of said tool.





Kode has been under some heavy arrousals out there in the past, and the pinch was used and not once did it ever cause aggression in him, nor in any of my other dogs with it's use. I always find it so funny that the positive trainers always blame a tool that they themselves are not fond of, but never blame the handler that is using that tool or even realize it's the timing and the consistancy of a tool that will make it or break it.


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## nrhareiner (Feb 27, 2007)

I do not and probable will never use one. I personally feel that if I can teach a 1200 bls stallion to heal with out a stud chain around mares, then I certainly teach my dog to heal with out anything like a prong collar. So fare all my dogs lead well and heal when told.

Heidi


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I am a positive trainer... I would NEVER use an electric collar... but I HATE haltis and I LOVE prongs... so it all depends


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

but IMO, should never be used on dogs with arousal or aggression issues. Correcting a dog on a pinch in the presence of a trigger (whatever is making the dog go off) is a sure-fire recipe for making the arousal or aggression worse.
__________________
Goldndust said:

_No Steph, this is not so. All dogs will have a trigger when learning, it's not the tool that causes harm used properly, it's the inconsistancy in the use of the tool as well as the timing that are wrong that will make a tool or break a tool. But in reality it isn't the tool that failed, it's the one using the tool that failed and they most likely need help by way of use of said tool._

I stand by my statement that prongs should NOT be used in aggression and arousal. Yes, it is an issue of timing - but when you pair the timing of a prong correction with the aggressive or aroused action of the dog in the middle of reacting to a trigger (and for the purpose of my example, I use "trigger" to mean the stimulus that the dog is reacting to -- be it another dog, a person in a hat, etc.), you run the great risk of the dog associationg the painful stimulus of the prong with the presence of the trigger itself, which can classically condition the dog to dislike the trigger even more. Glad that wasn't your experience with Kode, but trust me -- it does happen!


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## Goldndust (Jul 30, 2005)

> but when you pair the timing of a prong correction with the aggressive or aroused action of the dog in the middle of reacting to a trigger (and for the purpose of my example, I use "trigger" to mean the stimulus that the dog is reacting to -- be it another dog, a person in a hat, etc.), you run the great risk of the dog associationg the painful stimulus of the prong with the presence of the trigger itself, which can classically condition the dog to dislike the trigger even more.


 
Thanks Stephanie for replying. (Smile)

You have given me the information I knew, but needed to hear from you pertaining to the issue to make sure I was correct.

First, you do not understand the timing of a correction. This is in your post above on when you said it would be given. Your timing is off!

Secondly, you do not understand corrections, or how a dog is taught beforehand to respond to those corrections and how too shut them down. 

Once you understand those two combined, you will see as I stated correcting a dog under said circumstances will not, does not cause aggression in the dog or make the arrousal tip the scale on the level. It will actually bring the level down, not tip it if the timing is done correctly which in your post it is not.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Goldndust said:


> Thanks Stephanie for replying. (Smile)
> 
> You have given me the information I knew, but needed to hear from you pertaining to the issue to make sure I was correct.
> 
> ...


Okay, let's back up.

What I'm saying is IF you correct a dog WHEN it's aggressing or arousing at a trigger, that is what I believe can often make aggression worse.

I suppose if you had exquisite timing and were able to correct the dog at the verymost *slightest* indiciation of arousal... and you used the correction as a means by which to immediately redirect the dog to something else, it may work to modify the behavior in a desired way w/o any negative fallout later on. However, for the average pet owner, it's hard to achieve that kind of timing... and what I usually see is not a pet owner issuing a correction early enough to prevent the full on arousal/aggression, but rather, one issuing the correction in the middle of the outburst and trying to correct the behavior out of the dog. THAT is what I believe makes it worse... and there are many others with more more experience and education than myself who believe the same thing.

*Secondly, you do not understand corrections, or how a dog is taught beforehand to respond to those corrections and how too shut them down. *

Ah-ha! That's probably the big difference in how we train. I'm not looking to shut down a behavior. I believe that training to shut down something is likely only going to be a temporary fix b/c if the association hasn't been changed in the dog's mind, he hasn't changed how he feels about the problem, he's only learned that reacting a certain way gets him in trouble. I would rather work to change the association in the dog's mind.


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

i agree with you stephanie. i dont know much, but i agree that its a better idea to try to change the way jake perceives a person in a hat, rather than change the way he reacts. 

if i train him that barking at a person is bad, using a pinch, then he wont bark, but he may still be afraid and/or tense, and could lunge or become unpredictable..

i dont plan on using the prong on him.


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

I've never tried a prong collar but my previous two dogs were trained on a "choke" collar. I was taught how to put them on and how to use them as a correction not a cure. I still use the same techniques sometimes with Oakly's Martingale collar. It is more in the snap and noise than any discomfort the dog may feel.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

foreveramber said:


> if i train him that barking at a person is bad, using a pinch, then he wont bark, but he may still be afraid and/or tense, and could lunge or become unpredictable..


And that's exactly my point. 

I'm not anti prong collar. It can be like power steering on a dog and I have used them on dogs whose owners need *something* (b/c they can't physically manage the dog otherwise and/or don't want to take the time to systematically teach LLW) and who can't tolorate a head collar, etc. I just don't agree that corrections - be it from a pinch, e-collar, harsh verbal, scruf shake, alpha roll, etc. - are the most appropriate action when dealing with aggression.

And no, that doesn't mean you just throw a cookie at it either.

Best of luck with your training. Stick with things you are comfortable with and you'll no doubt make the best choice for you and your dog!

-Stephanie


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> And that's exactly my point.
> 
> 
> And no, that doesn't mean you just throw a cookie at it either.
> ...


I'm sorry, this sentence just made me very silly. 

Training can be so simple, yet so complex.


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## Goldndust (Jul 30, 2005)

> if i train him that barking at a person is bad, using a pinch, then he wont bark, but he may still be afraid and/or tense, and could lunge or become unpredictable..


No, this is not true! This is where I mentioned above understanding how the corrections work, and how a dog is trained to respond to them. Dogs are not just put on collars and then just corrected, dogs must first understand those corrections and be trained for them. Dogs are not just trained to lead corrections, they are also trained to commands which go hand in hand.



> I suppose if you had exquisite timing and were able to correct the dog at the verymost *slightest* indiciation of arousal... and you used the correction as a means by which to immediately redirect the dog to something else, it may work to modify the behavior in a desired way w/o any negative fallout later on.


Timing is crucial, it's just many do not know when to apply it. When dealing with a trigger, you don't wait for the dog to get at an arrousal state, that is too late. You must catch it when it first begins, if you wait till it's already a full blown state of arrousal, your timing is way off! This is not the fault of the pinch collar, it is the fault of the handler. The same thing can happen in a plain old buckle collar if one does not understand how crucial timing is, and when to apply it.
The tool used is just that, a tool. The rest is up too the owner to know how to use it correctly and how to apply lead corrections, and when to time it and to correctly train for it.



> one issuing the correction in the middle of the outburst and trying to correct the behavior out of the dog. THAT is what I believe makes it worse... and there are many others with more more experience and education than myself who believe the same thing.


That is a correction given at the wrong time, what these ones that are saying this should be saying is, a correction given at the wrong time will not give one the desired effect that the tool is designed to do. This is not a tool failing, this is the handler failure. In a dog that does not understand corrections and trained to respond to a correction is infact the fault of the owner, not the method used or the tool. This was my point from the very beginning, you specifically said the pinch collar will cause aggression when in fact it is not the pinch, it is handler, and timings off. 



> Ah-ha! That's probably the big difference in how we train. I'm not looking to shut down a behavior. I believe that training to shut down something is likely only going to be a temporary fix b/c if the association hasn't been changed in the dog's mind, he hasn't changed how he feels about the problem, he's only learned that reacting a certain way gets him in trouble. I would rather work to change the association in the dog's mind.


No, no one is shutting down a behavior, we are modifying it. 

*When I said shut down I think you miss understood that. The shut down was used to mean knowing how to respond too the corrections and be in control of them. This is where understanding corrections come in, and how they work. They are taught in the beginning how to respond to a correction, the association is there and they have total control of said behavior.* *All commands as well are worked in. *

Think of a mama dog, when she corrects her young an association is made do to the correction she had just given, did she just shut her pup down, absalutely not! She just handed out a correction and made the association with it, does the pup have full control to do it again, yes it does. But most likely will not do too the association as well as the correction given by her. The same will hold true with even older dogs and the corrections they hand out to young dog in there pack once the puppy license is over, there is always a correction, and there is always an association made with the correction. Did they shut down the behavior, no they just corrected it by way of association and correction.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Regarding "shutting down' behavior, I do think that is proper (for kids and dogs). If you shut it down you keep it from reinforcing itself. In my mind is the same as setting clear boundries.
But ..I know their are many different issues and situations and solutions.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

How about teaching the dog other dogs are fun and wonderful and not worth barking at- instead of simply teaching him that barking at them on walks gets him pronged?


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I WOULD correct barking on walks bc it majorly ticks me off and I think it's really obnoxious. But I have good timing AND I would be working hard to find out WHY my dog barks on walks and show him there's no cause for it... I think you need to do both in such an instance.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> How about teaching the dog other dogs are fun and wonderful and not worth barking at- instead of simply teaching him that barking at them on walks gets him pronged?


 
In my opinon I think the first step is to stop the barking and getting the brain off that wavelength. Then they can learn other new ways of reacting....and adjust to things in a more positive manner.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I think it's a circle  If you show them there's no reason to bark, they WILL stop.

However, when I feel/see my dog tensing up a bit on the leash or even looking harsh at something, I give a little tug (NOT a correction) and say "what?" and distract them so there's little chance they will react to whatever they were watching. My dogs are not allowed to pull in the direction of the other walker/dog, or lag behind looking back, etc... and I have never had much trouble teaching these good habits. 

I have gotten some doozies turned into rescue tho...


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Time to get back on topic here.....



foreveramber said:


> we have tried the regular nylon collar, a choke, a half nylon/choke training collar, gentle leader head collar, and gentle leader harness. he still wont heal. we have tried treats and toys to try to keep him at our heel, but he pays no attention once we are down the road.
> 
> i have decided against the prong collar, because yesterday, something clicked in jakes brain, and now we are heeling much better than before, with only the silverfoot training collar
> 
> ...


I have used a pinch collar (prong) for about 18 years and trained hundreds of dogs with them. Most people who have reservations about them, have little or no experience with them, and are reacting to the aesthetic appearance because it "LOOKS" like a torture device. They really have no idea how it really works or they didn't understand "HOW" it works and mis-used the device. 

You can accomplish a lot of things with a Pinch Collar but it isn't going to solve every conceivable behaviour problem under the sun. It is a very effective tool for OB work like Heel, Here, Sit, Remote Sit, etc. where you're working with the dog is on a lead or check cord. It can help you to build a rock solid foundation of obedience upon which you can build more advanced training.


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> However, when I feel/see my dog tensing up a bit on the leash or even looking harsh at something, I give a little tug (NOT a correction) and say "what?" and distract them


 
i cannot distract him with a simple tug. we usually turn around and walk the other way, or sit and wait for whatever it is that is bothering him, to go away, or pass. ALSO, he is so darn strong. we tried a prong on in petco the other day, and he walked the whole store, and i could actually control him. 

he has gotten much better with people. he rarely barks at anyone anymore..and when something does bother him, he just gives a little growl or the quiet "woo woo woo", (then we back away, or turn around.) 

however, i cant help but wonder if i were to use the prong to make the foundation swamp collie mentioned, then i would have his undivided attention in order to teach him things like heal in a public place. i just feel like his mind is somewhere else when he is in petco, or walking in a public place. he doesnt seem to pay enough attention to me, therefore i think hes not learning as quick and effectively as he should be. i know hes still young,


i feel there is something else i can do to keep his focus ON ME. his focus is on me 100% in the yard and house, and i think maybe the prong would help keep his attention ON ME in public, and if his attention is on me, then he wouldnt notice or growl at anyone...????


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Swampcollie is the person who posted something one day years ago that got me to go out and purchase a prong collar. I went into the store three times to buy one and walked out. 

The store I purchase ONE collar from was located by my son's high school. I ran in before he was dismissed from school, put the collar on my leg, and pulled. It didn't hurt, so I thought I would give it a try. My son jumped in my truck, saw the collar and said, "You are NOT going to put that on our dogs are you?" I said, "Yes, try it on." He put it on his neck and he pulled. He said, "Oh, okay."

I brought the collar home, place it on Shadow, and it was amazing. I ran back to the store and purchased a second one for Tucker. I was having small issues with one of them pulling and the CGC test was coming up. Guess what? They both passed with flying colors, no pulling, and it only took a short period of time for them to stop the unwanted pulling.

I have been walking my two together the last few days. I can walk them both together if I use their leads in a new fashion without either one of them pulling. I can walk them past a barking terrier who is running back and forth like a yo yo, a group of kids playing baseball, but I'm not sure about bikes. I find if I tell them what I want them to do as I'm passing the distraction, they get it. DH doesn't "tell" them what he expects, so he has more issues.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

_This is not a tool failing, this is the handler failure. In a dog that does not understand corrections and trained to respond to a correction is infact the fault of the owner, not the method used or the tool. This was my point from the very beginning, you specifically said the pinch collar will cause aggression when in fact it is not the pinch, it is handler, and timings off. _

Okay. Forgive me for saying that the *tool* will cause the problem. Of course it is the handler driving the tool that creates the problems - that should go without saying. 

What I see most of the time, and what I expect would more than likely happen when John Q Public straps on a pinch collar with no proper training, is that the correction would more than likely be given at the wrong time, and would therefore make the problem worse.

Perhaps, by your definition, very few people (and many of them so-called trainers) know how to give the "correction" at the proper time... because I'll tell ya, I work with an awful lot of dogs who, per owners reports, are a lot worse after trying to modify an aggressive behavior with corrective techniques -- b/c the association in the dog's mind has become just what I described --- _that the presence of the trigger (another dog, man in a hat, etc.) means my owner bites me on the prong.... Grrrrr.... now I dislike the trigger even more._


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Stephanie, 

I only used the prong for pulling. I wonder why it is I never need to give a correction? They loved seeing the collars come out to go for a walk too, so I don't think they were more uncomfortable than I or my son was when we tested it out.


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

stephanie, do you have any input on my earlier post??


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I can help you with distractions, but Stephanie is a trainer, so I'll bow out.


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

Kimm said:


> I can help you with distractions, but Stephanie is a trainer, so I'll bow out.


 
well, then i would love some input!

the only reason i asked stephanie specifically is because she has helped in my previous thread about jake barking at people.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

foreveramber said:


> however, i cant help but wonder if i were to use the prong to make the foundation swamp collie mentioned, then i would have his undivided attention in order to teach him things like heal in a public place. i just feel like his mind is somewhere else when he is in petco, or walking in a public place. he doesnt seem to pay enough attention to me, therefore i think hes not learning as quick and effectively as he should be. i know hes still young,
> 
> 
> i feel there is something else i can do to keep his focus ON ME. his focus is on me 100% in the yard and house, and i think maybe the prong would help keep his attention ON ME in public, and if his attention is on me, then he wouldnt notice or growl at anyone...????


OK, now I have a little more understanding about what is going on. 

To put it well, rather bluntly, your cute cuddly lovable pup is flipping you the paw. He's probably done it with such style and panache that you didn't recognize it at first. Goldens a smart and OOOOH so smooth at flipping you off that you don't hardly realize it until later. (Where you are now.)

So while you do need to do some leash work, the bigger task is going to be establishing yourself in the pups mind as the supreme leader in any or all circumstances. Doing that will require that you step back look at the normal routine, and change things (our behaviours) that confuse the pup, and create "grey areas" where he thinks he's the leader. You're in a situation where the pup loves you, but he doesn't respect you as a leader of the social group as he should. 

If he respected you as the leader, rather than forging forward and offering that low warning growl, he would look to you for leadership and follow your lead. If you're acting warm and friendly, he'll follow suit. If you're nervous and apprehensive he'll respond in kind, and that low warning growl will come out. 

You need to work on polishing your leadership position in your relationship with the dog. Leash work, obedience drills, NILIF, and careful use of praise/reward are all good ways to help establish and affirm your position as leader. The Pinch Collar is a good aid in helping you make progress in achieving that goal.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Kimm said:


> Stephanie,
> 
> I only used the prong for pulling. I wonder why it is I never need to give a correction? They loved seeing the collars come out to go for a walk too, so I don't think they were more uncomfortable than I or my son was when we tested it out.


Hey Kim,

I'm not sure what you're getting at here? (Long day - forgive me!) If you never gave a correction, it's b/c the collar was self-correcting for you and one of two things was happening:

1. The dogs were actually backing off at the first feel of the prong and you were getting visable slack on the leash as a result (this is my desired result on a pinch);

2. The dogs were *technically* pulling even on the pinch, just to the degree that they had desensitized themselves to - which usually is just a little bit - and the pulling wasn't enough to bother you. I see this happen a lot with people on a pinch... and I'm not saying that's bad either. A well trained dog is a matter of the owner's opinion, not mine. I may wish to have visable slack on the leash on a walk. Someone else may wish to eliminate the hacking sound and pulling-my-arm-out-of-the-socket sensation assocaited with a crazy pulling dog! 

Either way, of course they were happy when they saw it come out! It was a sure-fire prediction of going for a walk! 

Remember - I didn't say prong collars are bad. I'm just saying that I FEEL they shouldn't be used in cases of arousal or aggression.

-S


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

foreveramber said:


> well, then i would love some input!
> 
> the only reason i asked stephanie specifically is because she has helped in my previous thread about jake barking at people.


Hi Amber... I have lots of thoughts for you...... and I will post them soon. I just got home from teaching and I have a ton of office work to catch up on and I'm actually working again tomorrow, which is rare. I'll try and respond later tonight after my office work. If not, I WILL resopnd... I promise!

Stay tuned!

-S


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

This is the one!

1. The dogs were actually backing off at the first feel of the prong and you were getting visable slack on the leash as a result (this is my desired result on a pinch);

I can walk them both together now...


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## Bailey & Bentley (Feb 25, 2007)

I finally broke down and decided to get my boys the prong collars. My knees where telling me "I can't do this anymore", so I got too. I haven't had any problems with them pulling ever since. Works like a charm and once I realized that they don't hurt them I was all for it.


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## Goldndust (Jul 30, 2005)

Lucky's mom said:


> Regarding "shutting down' behavior, I do think that is proper (for kids and dogs). If you shut it down you keep it from reinforcing itself. In my mind is the same as setting clear boundries.
> But ..I know their are many different issues and situations and solutions.


Well the problem with using shut down as I did, was some will interpret that differently as Steph did, that was my reasoning in going back and explaining myself and what was meant by it.


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## Elway&Prince (Sep 6, 2007)

I guess either a.) I'm not using my prong collar right or b.) my lab just doesn't care that she's in pain. My lab still drags me all around when on a prong or not! My husband has to hold her leash because he's the only one that can control her when we're on a walk.


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## GoldRocksMom (Feb 9, 2007)

I have never had a golden or any dog who needed a prong collar
can not imagine using one myself...


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Crazydog said:


> I guess either a.) I'm not using my prong collar right or b.) my lab just doesn't care that she's in pain. My lab still drags me all around when on a prong or not! My husband has to hold her leash because he's the only one that can control her when we're on a walk.


I know what you mean, Lilah pretty much ignores the pinch collar and pulls anyway, which mean it's ineffective as training tool for her. I've had just slightly better results with the Gentle Leader with her, but she is a stubborn little miss who likes to do things her way. If I insist on her staying in a heel position, she droops her tail and walks very slow.


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## McSwede (Jan 30, 2007)

The prong is a life saver for me. Bailey is close to 100 lbs and is strong as an ox. I'm 6', 215 lbs and without a prong he will pull me all over the street. 

With it, it's like power steering was slapped on him.


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## Scorpio118 (Jul 9, 2007)

Ar eyou sure the prong is on TIGHT ENOUGH???? It should fit "snugly" around the neck... not lose... maybe take a link or two out??

Maddie is a WICKED PULLER!!!!!!!!!!!! And the day we put that prong on my son was able to walk her around the block PERFECTLY!!

Mike - well........ hims just a bull in a china shop..... :doh: 

I LOVE MY PRONGS!!!!!!!! We dont go anywhere outside the house without it!!


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## tintallie (May 31, 2006)

Like Scropio mentioned, the prong collar has to be snug and right up against the ears. (How to fit a Prong Collar) You should not be able to even rotate the prong collar once it's on.

Although my dog is getting weaned off the prong collar, he still knows the difference what collar is on him and attached to the leash. He behaves differently when he sees rabbit on the prong than on a regular leather collar or nylon slip collar.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

GoldRocksMom said:


> I have never had a golden or any dog who needed a prong collar
> can not imagine using one myself...


I wouldn't go that far myself- I have used it to correct some problems since buying one (ie genuine problems in some rescue dogs). But I truly do NOT understand not being able to teach a dog not to pull on the leash without any special tool. I've taught probably hundreds of dogs to walk politely on a leash, and the first time I bought a prong was in 2007 for Courtney's benefit because she is a handler with disabilities. I have never used a halti or similar... never needed it.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

PS will add it is an easy quick fix though since buying one it's tempting to cheat sometimes on a new dog... and I do suggest them to others a lot...


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## tintallie (May 31, 2006)

It depends from dog to dog for me....I was walking my co-worker's beagle (she has two tubby ones who are from the same litter) during the Terry Fox Run since she lives near the school.

Well her more "submissive" was always leading in front of her pulling away. I had her more "dominant" one and she was walking beside me for the majority of the time and I only had to give a couple of quick leash pops with a normal collar. I was also making her dog sit every time it was baying. She normally lets them bay at everything and it gets really loud and annoying.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

See you know how to handle a dog


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## tintallie (May 31, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> See you know how to handle a dog


Just not my own? :doh: Wiggles has been a constant challenge, but I wouldn't give up my Wigglebum. Without research and talking to other Golden Retriever owners, and making him go through obedience class twice, I think Wiggles could have been one of those out of control crazy teenage dogs that people can't handle and give up. I find him quite mellow, but I make sure he gets his daily walks...unlike the psycho mutts that are in the neighbourhood running along the chainlink fences barking and snarling at everything passing by.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> I wouldn't go that far myself- I have used it to correct some problems since buying one (ie genuine problems in some rescue dogs). But I truly do NOT understand not being able to teach a dog not to pull on the leash without any special tool. I've taught probably hundreds of dogs to walk politely on a leash, and the first time I bought a prong was in 2007 for Courtney's benefit because she is a handler with disabilities. I have never used a halti or similar... never needed it.


What techniques did you use to teach walking on a loose leash?


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