# Separation anxiety or afraid of the crate?



## Vicki (May 15, 2006)

I'm hoping you guys can help me because I'm all out of ideas on this one.

I have a rescue boy, he's about 10 years old. I've had him for the last 5 years. I use a crate whenever I'm not home and once he got used to his crate, he had no problems at all with it.

About 2 weeks ago, I came home to a frantically barking dog who had peed in his crate. When I opened the crate door, I noticed his genital area was all red and swollen, so I called the vet right away and took him in. They examined him, found nothing to be concerned about...of course the swelling had gone down by the time I got him to the vet. The theory was that perhaps he had been overlicking himself to clean himself because of soiling the crate and that's what caused the redness or swelling. Kinda hard to tell since it wasn't swollen by the time the doc saw him.

Anyway, since then, whenever he's in the crate, he barks and whines and coming home today, he's damaged the crate trying to get out of it. It looks like he was clawing at it and I'm afraid at this point that he's going to hurt himself trying to get out of the crate.

Any suggestions or ideas about what's going on and how to help stop it would be greatly appreciated.

Vicki


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Is he destructive when left alone uncrated?


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## Kzwicker (Aug 14, 2007)

I am not real experenced with this stuff, but do you have a room you can keep him in while you are not home? Maybe with a baby gate or something. Maybe a loud noise or something scared him that day and he thinks it will happen again.. Poor pup.. sorry your having a hard time!


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## Jellybean's mom (Jul 6, 2007)

Do you think it is possible that he is having seizures in the crate? Does he ever show signs of shaking, twitching, loss of balance, falling over?

Given his age, if he can be trusted out of the crate I would just let him be out fo the crate.


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## Vicki (May 15, 2006)

LibertyME said:


> Is he destructive when left alone uncrated?


Not destructive as much as he leaves brown smelly presents when left alone. It's like he's afraid no one will come home to take him out so he leaves a present on the kitchen floor. I had tried to gate him before when we realized he didn't like the metal crate we had (we had to get him his own plastic crate). And he's a gate jumper, too, so leaving him gated somewhere won't work because he just goes over it.

I've had goldens for 18 years and never had a problem like this. I'm just stumped!

Vicki


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## Vicki (May 15, 2006)

Kzwicker said:


> I am not real experenced with this stuff, but do you have a room you can keep him in while you are not home? Maybe with a baby gate or something. Maybe a loud noise or something scared him that day and he thinks it will happen again.. Poor pup.. sorry your having a hard time!


Thanks for the support, though, it means a lot. I wish I knew what happened 2 weeks ago that caused him to soil the crate. I'd taken him out before I left the house and was only gone about an hour and a half. This behavior is VERY uncharacteristic for him. He's the most easy going dog I've ever known. I hate to see him so anxious about the crate.

Vicki


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## Vicki (May 15, 2006)

Jellybean's mom said:


> Do you think it is possible that he is having seizures in the crate? Does he ever show signs of shaking, twitching, loss of balance, falling over?
> 
> Given his age, if he can be trusted out of the crate I would just let him be out fo the crate.


Thanks for the response. No, he's never shown any signs of shaking or seizures and the health check came back fine. They did a urine analysis and bloodwork the day I took him in 2 weeks ago.

Unfortunately, he can't be left out of the crate because he poops on the floor. Just once and he leaves it alone, but still it's not something I want to come home to every time I have to leave the house.

Vicki


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## Jellybean's mom (Jul 6, 2007)

Hmmm....so if left out of the crate he poops? Does he ever pee if left outside of the crate?? When you are home does he ever poop or pee in the house?

That makes me lean toward that it could be separation anxiety. His little tummy gets anxious and he has to poop! 

When he gate jumps where does he go? Does he leave a present in the gated room or the room he escapes to?

Is the crate comfy with toys and bedding with your smell on it?

With a rescue you can never tell what has happened to a dog in a previous life. He could have had some trauma when left alone? Neglected? 

I'm grasping at straws here.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Has he developted any other fears - like loud noises...etc


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## Vicki (May 15, 2006)

Jellybean's mom said:


> Hmmm....so if left out of the crate he poops? Does he ever pee if left outside of the crate?? When you are home does he ever poop or pee in the house?
> 
> That makes me lean toward that it could be separation anxiety. His little tummy gets anxious and he has to poop!
> 
> ...


We're both grasping at straws. Oy.

When he jumps the gate, he waits by the front door. He leaves the present in the room he was gated in and it's just the one pile of poo, he doesn't pee. He doesn't ever pee or poop in the house when I'm home, he's been a model gentleman since the day we brought him home.

I hadn't been leaving anything in the crate because of some crate behavior of my first pair of goldens. They would shred whatever was in the crate if the door was closed. Yesterday we tried putting a new doggie pad in there with his favorite rope bone and he wouldn't even go in the crate with something on the floor (this was an issue we had with him when we first got him, why he wouldn't go in the metal crate because of the pan floor and why we ultimately ended up getting him a new plastic molded crate).

I think it's possible that it could be separation anxiety, but what started it up after 5 years of being fine and is there a way to reassure him without nurturing the anxiety so that he goes back to being ok in the crate? With the easter holiday coming up next month, he'll be kenneled with our other boy for several days while we're away with family and I just can't leave him if he's going to be this anxious. I'm afraid his heart will give out, he's panting so hard when I come home after just an hour or so.

Vicki


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## Vicki (May 15, 2006)

LibertyME said:


> Has he developted any other fears - like loud noises...etc


He has never been fond of thunderstorms, but other than the new behavior I've described there has been no other new thing developed over the last two weeks. He just doesn't like the crate anymore. If I thought he wouldn't destroy a new one, I'd go out tonight and get it for him...I'm eventually going to have to get him a new one anyway because of what he did to his crate this afternoon, but I don't want to buy crate after crate after crate while he works through this. I can't afford to keep buying crates at this size.

Vicki


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## Vicki (May 15, 2006)

Just got a call from the vet's office and he wants to start him on 40mg of generic Prozac. I'm not sure I want to do that, though. I'd rather try and figure out what's all of a sudden causing the separation anxiety, or whatever this is, and deal with the problem, not medicate the symptom.


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## ID_Hannah (Jun 8, 2006)

Ah, poor guy. 

Since this only started since he had the accident in his crate, I'm inclined to think they're related. He might be panicked about peeing inside his crate again. It was probably very upsetting for an adult, housetrained dog to sit in his own pee. He associates that experience with his crate. I don't think it's truly seperation anxiety. It's some fear connected with his crate, probably stemming from the first incident. 

Who knows what caused that incident... Age, some unknown health issue, maybe he just didn't go before you left and found himself in a bind.

Since the crate wasn't evil in his mind before his accident in the crate, you might just have work back up to him being okay with his crate again. So back to the crate training basics, starting just like you would with getting a puppy accustomed to the crate. Feeding in the crate, really good treats in the crate, and asking him stay short times in the crate while you're home with lots of praise and positive associations. 

I'd personally try some methods of making the crate positive, or at least tolerable, for him again before using drugs to calm him.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Something happened in the last two weeks...maybe something in his own mind...but something tripped a trigger....

It certainly makes it somewhat easier to solve and work with if there is some sort of external source of the fear (or pain), but it doesnt sound like that is the case...which leads one to believe that it is some fear (or pain) he perceives in his mind...and he initailly associated it with being alone and now associated it with the crate...

I wonder if meds would alleviate some of his stress...

Out of curiosity...
Does he ever voluntarily go into the crate himself - for instance to take a nap with the door open?


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

Just want to say sorry you are going through this. I know when I got Finny at his breeder she had her retired dogs in crates, which surprised me, I thought at some point they just didn't anymore. You are getting good advice from the experts, I would have no problem with giving anti-anxiety meds to a dog in need, just like a human. Good luck!


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## Vicki (May 15, 2006)

LibertyME said:


> Out of curiosity...
> Does he ever voluntarily go into the crate himself - for instance to take a nap with the door open?


Actually he does, the crates are left up and open all the time. He was in his crate not too long ago chewing on a bone. He's only doing this when I'm gone.

Vicki


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## Vicki (May 15, 2006)

ID_Hannah said:


> Ah, poor guy.
> 
> Since the crate wasn't evil in his mind before his accident in the crate, you might just have work back up to him being okay with his crate again. So back to the crate training basics, starting just like you would with getting a puppy accustomed to the crate. Feeding in the crate, really good treats in the crate, and asking him stay short times in the crate while you're home with lots of praise and positive associations.
> 
> I'd personally try some methods of making the crate positive, or at least tolerable, for him again before using drugs to calm him.


Hannah, I agree with you. I'm reluctant to use prozac, particularly since this was a happy healthy dog who had no problem in his crate at all until 2 weeks ago. You might have hit the nail on the head with him finding himself in a bind and he soiled his crate and was upset about that because he has been housetrained for so long.

So it's back to basics for us. Although he doesn't seem to mind being in the crate when it's his idea when I'm home, I think your suggestions of good treats, feeding and short stays in the crate might be a better place to start than prozac.

Vicki


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## LOVEisGOLDEN (Jan 4, 2008)

so sorry you are going through this! I would try to medicate him while readjusting him to crate time. just enough to take the edge off until he can go back to his normal behavior. i would hate to medicate him long term, but it might be best for a while-as to not over stress his aging body.


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## Vicki (May 15, 2006)

Abbydabbydo said:


> Just want to say sorry you are going through this. I know when I got Finny at his breeder she had her retired dogs in crates, which surprised me, I thought at some point they just didn't anymore. You are getting good advice from the experts, I would have no problem with giving anti-anxiety meds to a dog in need, just like a human. Good luck!


Thanks, Abbydabbydo. I don't have a problem medicating him if it's the only way to keep him safe when I'm not home. That being said, however, I'd really like to try and resolve his issue with the crate, or my absence, whichever it is, and solve the problem instead of medicating the symptom. Until this happened he was perfectly content to be in the crate to nap or chew a bone, or wait until I got home. I just wish I knew what changed things all of a sudden.

Vicki


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## Vicki (May 15, 2006)

LOVEisGOLDEN said:


> so sorry you are going through this! I would try to medicate him while readjusting him to crate time. just enough to take the edge off until he can go back to his normal behavior. i would hate to medicate him long term, but it might be best for a while-as to not over stress his aging body.


Thanks, LoveisGolden. I'm going to have them hold the 'script for prozac for now and see if I can build a better barricade in the kitchen. One he can't jump over. Maybe if he's able to wait in the kitchen but not in the crate he'll be ok until I get home.

Vicki


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

If you want to try gating him in the kitchen, just stack two gates. Get the pressue mounted ones. They're very easy to stack.

They also sell taller gates in pet catalogs, but I find one tall gate to cost significantly more than two shorter ones (by short, I mean 32") and you can find the short ones at Target or Walmart.

Be sure to confine him sometimes when you're home and not just when you leave. Otherwise, he instantly associates you putting him up in the crate or kitchen with your departure.

If he's thunderstorm phobic, it's possible that there was some scary noise in the environment that triggered the phobia and he associated it with the crate.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Also, leave lots of great things for him to do in the kitchen - peanut butter KONG, etc. and you can try homeopathic calming agents like lavender, Rescue Remedy or a DAP Diffuser.


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## Vicki (May 15, 2006)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Also, leave lots of great things for him to do in the kitchen - peanut butter KONG, etc. and you can try homeopathic calming agents like lavender, Rescue Remedy or a DAP Diffuser.


Thanks for the great suggestions and for the information on the gates. I will definitely be looking for them tomorrow. Until I get the gates set up, he'll be coming with me when I leave the house. Not sure how that will sit with my other golden, but after what Alex did to the crate this afternoon I don't feel comfortable taking the risk that he won't hurt himself trying to get out.

Vicki


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Vicki said:


> Thanks for the great suggestions and for the information on the gates. I will definitely be looking for them tomorrow. Until I get the gates set up, he'll be coming with me when I leave the house. Not sure how that will sit with my other golden, but after what Alex did to the crate this afternoon I don't feel comfortable taking the risk that he won't hurt himself trying to get out.
> 
> Vicki


Leave the other dog a wonderful consolation prize... like his own peanut butter KONG or equally yummy distraction!

Good luck... hope it works out for you guys!

-S


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Everyone has given you great suggestions and I hope some of the work for you. Good luck.


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## Vicki (May 15, 2006)

BeauShel said:


> Everyone has given you great suggestions and I hope some of the work for you. Good luck.


Thanks, Carol. 

Well, this morning he went for a ride with me to drop off my son at school. He had a blast with all the kids coming up to pet him. We were gone all of 5 minutes. My other golden boy was fine and fortunately hasn't picked up on barking to get out of the crate so for now this solution will work until I can get those gates and give gating him in the kitchen a try. At this point I'm even willing to scrub the floor every day if it stops him from potentially hurting himself trying to get out of the crate. I think I'm going to also buy another crate and put this one outside where he can't see it and see if a fresh start might help him, too. The suggestion that something frightened him when I was out and now that crate is associated with something bad makes sense...maybe a brand new crate with different smells will have different associations.

Thanks everyone for all the great suggestions and support.

Vicki


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