# Anyone know what Ringworm or Acne look like?



## TeddyBear (Nov 4, 2007)

Hi

A bit of a long story Im afraid, but Im desperate for some re-assurance & a second opinion....:crossfing

Ted has been bothered with marks on his skin since he was around 4 months old, which would have been last November. When it didnt clear up, I took him to the vets at Christmas time & he advised me that it was a sweat rash & perfectly normal in puppies & sent me away with some rather expensive shampoo. This appeared to clear it up slightly.

Ive been keeping a close eye on his skin & since February it has slowly got worse. In April I tried to get an appointment with my vet, but was unable to & spoke with him on the phone instead. He advised me to give him a piriton tablet & that it would possibly just be down to the heat as we had a really hot week (hard to believe considering we live in Scotland, I know!!) 

Since then though, Ted has been scratching excessively & I am constantly checking him over (I am really paranoid about him getting fleas!!) I noticed that if I touched the marks on his skin, they would come away. The only way I can really describe this, would be to say that its like large flakes of dandruff, except brown colour. 

My husband has said all year that Im fussing too much, but Ted started to drive me crazy with constantly scratching, oh & excessively shedding too so again I returned to the vets 10 days ago. 

This time he told me that Ted has puppy acne & on top of that a yeast infection too & again gave me more of the expensive shampoo & also advised that we changed his diet from James Wellbeloved to Purina Pro Plan, Sensitive. 

Last week I thought that his skin was improving & although it doesnt appear to be as red & angry looking, it has spread to other parts of his body, where he didnt have it before. 

I have being doing a lot of research online, at dog skin problems, etc & keep coming across Ringworm & Im almost certain this is what he actually has, but then again Im not a Vet & Ted is the first dog Ive ever owned. A lot of the markings he has do have like a ring around them & as its meant to be contagious & passed onto humans, Im really worried. The markings do appear to 'exfoliate' & like I said earlier, he sheds a lot more than any other retriever we know. Most worrying is the fact that his coat has become very thin above the marked areas & in some places, his coat has disappeared in that area altogether. If I now touch the markings, some hair will actually come away in my hand. 

Surely this is not puppy acne? From the research Ive done online on puppy acne, it states that it will be around the chin area, etc, this is not at all, in fact his face is the one place he doesnt have any marks at all. What he does have on his face though, is what we think is a cut near the corner of his lip, but I guess that may not be related to the skin problem. 

I know the obvious solution is to return to the Vet but Im just wondering if anyone else has had their dog suffering from Ringworm, before I go back, looking like the most paranoid dog owner they have ever known! 

Any advice would be hugely appreciated. I have lots of photos but for some reason, cant add them on!

Teds mum


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## Judi (Feb 26, 2007)

Could you show us a picture?


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## TeddyBear (Nov 4, 2007)

Hi,

Hope this works with adding in photos. The last one is the sore next to his lip

Teds mum


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

My Great Pyrenees used to get an infection like that Pyoderma (?). I think it was a type of staff infection. I needed to treat it with an antibiotic, a shampoo, and take a flea comb and comb out the flakes. It would take anywhere from 3 weeks to 2 months to get rid of, fur would thin out. I noticed it would come on after his fur had been wet, like getting caught in the rain. Go back to the vets. That is not puppy acne.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

It looks like staph to me.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

Tell the vet to take a skin scraping. That way you can tell for sure what it is.

If you have a black light (remember those from the 70's?), you can see if it's ringworm. The ring will generally glow if it is...and the Vets definitely know this.

I'd get him in. It's hard to tell what exactly it is, because it looks like staph, somewhat, but the hair falling out is typical of ringworm.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Ardeagold said:


> Tell the vet to take a skin scraping. That way you can tell for sure what it is.
> 
> If you have a black light (remember those from the 70's?), you can see if it's ringworm. The ring will generally glow if it is...and the Vets definitely know this.
> 
> I'd get him in. It's hard to tell what exactly it is, because it looks like staph, somewhat, but the hair falling out is typical of ringworm.


True, and the black "bits" look like flea dirt... A vet check would be my preference...


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## DUSTYRD2 (Feb 28, 2007)

The second picture looks exactly like what Dusty had. He didn't have rings around anything though and he wasn't paying much attention to it ie. scratching. It was a staph infection and the vet put him on antibiotics. Cleared up pretty quick. But take him to the vet as the others have suggested.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

If your vet can't get him in, I'd go to a new vet.


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## Cam's Mom (Apr 13, 2007)

Ringworm should be easy to detect with a black light, as already mentioned. Photography shop might have one they'll let you use, or pet stores that sell fish in tanks often sell black light bulbs.

That spot around the mouth is so very typical of mange...especially demodex

Here's a couple of links for you to look at. Demodectic mange and sarcoptic mange have quite distinct patterns.

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/demodectic_mange.html

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_sarcoptic_mange.htmlhttp://www.marvistavet.com/html/demodectic_mange.html

Ivermectin injections would be my preference for sarcoptic mange. And follow up with selamectin,(Revolution in the US) a topical miticide, if there's a chance the pup will be re-exposed.

Demodex is quite common in young pups who's immune system is not fully functional. they will get it in the months between loosing immunity gained from their mothers, and getting their own immune system up and running. Usually closer to 6 or 8 months than 4.

Another common reason in Goldens for Demodex is low thyroid hormones. When thyroid hormaones are low, the immune system is comprimised. This is much more usual in three year or plus dogs, but not totally unheard of in younger dogs. The test results of a thyroid panel should be in the top half of the scale for a young pup.

Demodex is easy to identify with skin scrappings. Sarcoptic more difficult. Ivermectin is quite safe, and if there's a possiblity of sarcoptic mange, trying Ivermectin is a good idea. The mites will die and itching stop within three days. Then the skin will heal spontanously. 

The appearance of staph like infection could be secondary to the cause of the itching. Pyoderma is caused by a staph bactrium.
http://www.medi-vet.com/Canine-Pyoderma.html

And last but not least...in a Scottish climate, if he's always damp, it could be yeast. A bath in water with a good dose of apple cider vinegar added might help. Where in Scotland are you? I lived in Aberdeen for years.

Systemic yeast infections can be caused by a diet with too much carbohydrate, or carbs the pup is allergic to. Corn and wheat are the biggest culprits. Chicken and beef are also quite common allergens. If you have foods available that have only one protein and one carb that he hasn't had before that would be a good choice. That way you can more easily eliminate the culprit.

Skin problems can be so hard to identify. Hope you get the problem resolved. I might try a different vet if possible.

Margaret


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## TeddyBear (Nov 4, 2007)

Thank you so much for your knowledgeable advise. I am returning to the vets this afternoon for a second opinion, with a different vet this time. I requested that skin scrapings could be taken today. Will keep you all posted. Many thanks once again


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

Let us know what you find out! I hope your pup gets well very soon!


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## TeddyBear (Nov 4, 2007)

Just an update so far....

Our second opinion at the Vets today was even more confusing that the last visit!!!
She said it could be one of many things.... either pyoderma (which is apparantley the same as a staph infection & puppy acne, is this correct?) mange, ringworm or a food allergy & could not say for definate at this stage what it definatley is.

When I enquired about skin scrapings, she said that Ted would need to be sedated for this to happen as its so painful, is this also true?  I would have thought this was quite a simple, routine procedure.

She did use a wood lamp to check for ringworm & a few things showed up but apparantley this is normal & if this was the cause, there would be a vast quantity appearing under the lamp. Only one small area showed up with numerous flecks, so she has ordered in a wash that we will collect tomorrow, to use, just in case!
She also gave Ted a 10 day course of anti-biotics called 'Duphatrim' to help any underlying skin problems there may be.
On top of this, we were also sent away with a 'Promeris' lotion to apply between his shoulder blades, like you would with a flea treatment, this is to treat any mange present. I applied this onto him around 4 hours ago now & all night, he has scratched & chewed on his skin more so than ever!

My husband previously worked as a Lab Technician & still has some of the equipment as his new job also involves some work in this field, so tonight I collected a few of poor Teds hair follicles & scabs, placed them on a slide & we looked at them under the microscope. 
In our opinion, what appears to show up is exactly like the demodex mange. My husband stated that whatever it is, its inside Teds hair follicle & from the link sent by 'Cams mom' we have diagnosed this ourselves. We are now 90% positive this is what Ted actually has.

Of course, we may be completely wrong as we have no previous experience, but we have lost all faith in our Vets being able to offer a solution & are considering finding a new Vet tomorrow. Im really frustrated that we are even having to go further than our own Vets to find answers! Since December, we have spent a fortune at our Vets & pet store, all to no avail so far.

If we find out any more, I will keep you posted. Once again, many thanks for all your helpful advise

Teds (frustrated) mum


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

After your trip today I would be finding a new vet. And do not give him the Promeris. There was a posting here not to long ago about how Promeris could be responsible for some deaths. All the vets that I know of do not sell it because it just hasnt been on the market long and not enough known about it. Here is the thread. http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=33748

I have never had to have a skin scraping done with any of my pups but I have heard that it doesnt hurt and not hard to do. She should be testing to rule out what the problem is not just giving meds for a maybe 6 or more different types of problems. I agree that if you dont have faith in your vet it is time to change. I find it amazing with your limited knowledge and microscope you were able to possibly find the problem and she couldnt. Also with him having all the skin problems, the last thing I would put on is a flea meds without knowing what is wrong with him. That is just my opinion.
Hope you can find another vet that helps Ted and your piece of mind.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I am so sorry you are having these issues with your vet. It can be very frustrating. In the late 80's, I had two puppies, one I bred and one I bought, who were scratching themselves raw. They were in so much pain they would not eat. My vet could not find anything wrong with them. The last straw was when I came home and they were in their crates, covered with blood from scratching, and their crate pans were full of blood. I went to another vet, who within 10 minutes had diagnosed them with sarcoptic mange. In just a couple of days they were so much better I couldn't believe it. The skin scrapings were minor and took very little time.

So, yes-go to another vet!

Also, I agree with Carol-do not give the Promeris. While some of the stories are exaggerated, it is too new and untested. The dogs who got so sick apparently were licking themselves and each other, and that is what made them sick. This, on top of his skin condition, is just too much to put his poor body through.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

TeddyBear said:


> Just an update so far....
> 
> Our second opinion at the Vets today was even more confusing that the last visit!!!
> She said it could be one of many things.... either pyoderma (which is apparantley the same as a staph infection & puppy acne, is this correct?) mange, ringworm or a food allergy & could not say for definate at this stage what it definatley is.
> ...


DEmodex doesn't typically itch - you will see red pimples and patches of missing hair. The skin looks inflamed but they usually aren't scratching at it. I think I have a pic of my dog Petey who had demodex here in the picture gallery. Skin issues are tough to diagnose. Often it's a matter or ruling out one thing or another. We use Revolution for dogs we suspect have Sarcoptic mange (which itches like CRAZY!) If they don't respond to the Revolution sarcoptic mange can usually be ruled out.


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## Dalton's mom (Apr 5, 2008)

Both of my pups have had demodex at different times. Both of them chewed on themselves a little, but not excessively. Neither were sedated for skin scrapings & they were done by 2 different vets. One was given ivermectin to be taken orally & the other was given Mitaban for an actual dip (yuck!) Why the rescue's vet prescribes that is beyond me, other than it's cheap. I didn't use it & I took Dalton to my vet who prescribed the ivermectin like he did for my girl. Both my dogs are on Revolution, so I don't worry too much about sarcoptic mange. I'd look for another vet. Demodex is easy to treat as long as it's localized. If you end up giving ivermectin it tastes yucky, judging from the reactions of my dogs. I dosed it into a suringe type thing (no needle) & put it far back in the mouth, hold their mouth closed & squirt in the meds. Then I blow in their face and lightly rub their throat, which causes a swallowing reflex. It starts to get better within a short time. I give a treat after, to help get rid of the taste. GL


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

WOW, this is more than frustrating! Definitely, I'd be seeing another vet.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Dalton's mom said:


> Both of my pups have had demodex at different times. Both of them chewed on themselves a little, but not excessively. Neither were sedated for skin scrapings & they were done by 2 different vets. One was given ivermectin to be taken orally & the other was given Mitaban for an actual dip (yuck!) Why the rescue's vet prescribes that is beyond me, other than it's cheap. I didn't use it & I took Dalton to my vet who prescribed the ivermectin like he did for my girl. Both my dogs are on Revolution, so I don't worry too much about sarcoptic mange. I'd look for another vet. Demodex is easy to treat as long as it's localized. If you end up giving ivermectin it tastes yucky, judging from the reactions of my dogs. I dosed it into a suringe type thing (no needle) & put it far back in the mouth, hold their mouth closed & squirt in the meds. Then I blow in their face and lightly rub their throat, which causes a swallowing reflex. It starts to get better within a short time. I give a treat after, to help get rid of the taste. GL


I used to mix the Ivermectin in yogurt - Petey never balked. We have had some vets recommend dips while others, Ivermectin. Money didn't have anything to do with it in our cases, it was just the vet's preference for whatever reason. The dips are messy - if a vet recommended dips they always did it at their office.


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## TeddyBear (Nov 4, 2007)

We have changed Vets today. The last straw came when we went to buy another bag of the food they recommended that we swaped Ted onto, when we went 10 days ago, Pro Plan Sensitive, but guess what.....they didnt have any! 

My husband spoke with the vet we seen yesterday & advised what we found under the microscope & she agreed Demodex is possibly what he has! 

Ted has barely scratched once today, I think that last night the promeris lotion we applied to his skin must have started working on him immediately, causing the excessive scratching, biting etc. 

He def seems like a much happier dog today 

We go to see our new Vet tomorrow, one who has been recommended by many friends & family members, lets hope we can trust this one!


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