# Don't know what to do anymore. need HELP



## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

I'm sure you'll get lots of advice here. I suggest you read mine but don't take it as gospel. First thing I wonder, how have you been "correcting" her? How you are correcting her may very well be at the center of things - especially if you alpha roll her, or hit her, or yell at her, or use a number of negative corrections. 
One thing that I am getting is that she's in charge. She takes the food off the counter that she knows is the wrong thing to do and you shy away - let her take the food and don't comment about it. You are giving her a very strong message and that is - You are in charge here. So of course, she is acting the part. She's the head honcho - the big banana and she's communicating that with you in doggy language back. I also am getting that she doesn't have much trust in you either. What we have here likely a broken relationship that's continuing to become the norm.

Some people will suggest NILF technique and I'm not too familiar with it but I do know enough that I think that would be a great help. What you need to do is start understanding what you are communicating to her and what she is really communicating back to you. Second thing, you need to start interacting with her in a positive way - positive training all the way. She is still a growing child and at her age, she can be turned around. You need to stop trying everything and find one thing to try and stick with it. You may very well be confusing her on top of everything. 

I think you've come to the right place with your question and hope that you give this the good ole college try - I think this can be fixed but not without a lot of work on your part and on the part of everyone who lives in the house and interacts with her. 

Good luck and I hope you find the advice you are looking for!


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

we just use a negative remark that our trainer told us too, it sounds like "nah nah". we never hit her and we use positive training and "nothing in life is free". we try to be very consistent with her and have been working with trainers/behaviorists since she was 9 weeks and came to our house. with the food thing, it was only her second time stealing food, and we figured it would be worse to chase her around the house trying to get the pizza from her, since she does guard food.... 

i read mine too, and will take a look at it again -- maybe take it to my trainer and ask her opinion also...

apart from that, we try to shower her with love and attention... so i really don't know what else we can do to make the relationship stronger. we exercise her well and socialize her with other dogs too. what else you suggest us to do to make her trust us more? 

thank you for your answer!!


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

hmm, well, then I'm at a loss. I hope that someone has helpful advice for you - it sounds like you are doing a great many things right - I don't understand why it is still going wrong for you. 
Did you work on the command drop it or leave it? It is one of the first things I taught Max. Perhaps you can teach her that. She takes something, you tell her, No, drop it! She knows/understands what you want - there should be no running. 

One thing I did learn from Max is never chase your dog. It never helps! It becomes a game then and you're not going to win that game. I really hope someone has the magic words for you that allows you to fix this!

Good luck!


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

yes, she knows the drop it/leave it command, and she is great at it, but when she becomes "protective" of whatever she has (and it can be anything now!!) she does not listen to it. she starts growling the second we say leave it. and if we give one step closer, she'll start snapping. like i said, she goes from our sweet dog to something totally different...


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## Suni52 (Jan 18, 2012)

You are such a great mommy and I know your heart is in the right place and it sounds like you are doing so many things right. Do you think a different behaviorist could help you?? Not all trainers are created equal. Maybe get a fresh perspective. Maybe you only need to tweek something that you are doing, and it could mean all the difference in the world??? 
So sorry that you are having these doubts and are struggling with her. I hope you find some great answers here.


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

Suni52 said:


> You are such a great mommy and I know your heart is in the right place and it sounds like you are doing so many things right. Do you think a different behaviorist could help you?? Not all trainers are created equal. Maybe get a fresh perspective. Maybe you only need to tweek something that you are doing, and it could mean all the difference in the world???
> So sorry that you are having these doubts and are struggling with her. I hope you find some great answers here.


thank you so much for your words. i feel so bad and like a failure when she does things like that. i keep wondering what i'm doing wrong, what she sees in me that is "dangerous" and makes her act this way... 

we have just changed trainers because we were not having much luck with summer's behavior. she got better but around 5 months, she became this crazy dogs at times. so it's our second trainer in 5 months, so i'm hoping it will work better this time. i just feel like things are getting worse with time, and i kinda of expected it to get a little better since she's been with us since she was 8 weeks old. shouldn't she trust us already?

i love her soooo much. my whole life revolves around her and i just want to make her happy. she is such a good girl most times, so cute and funny!


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## KathyL (Jul 6, 2011)

Is she still young, like under 2? My second golden was awful and would jump on me and not bite but mouth my arm. I took him to obedience and he was a quick learner and she always used him as the little model. Get him home and a different story. It took me two years and he ended up being great. I remember I used to carry a cheap perfume when I walked him and the minute he turned to mouth me I just had to hold the perfume to his nose and he backed off. He rarely got squirted. Maybe for the counter put out something loaded with tabasco and let her take it -- she might not be so quick to do that again. Mine also had to carry something all the time and if he found a ball, branch or even a soda can he would pick it and and turn around to take it back home. He would even carry his bag of doggie-doo home just proud with the bag swinging back and forth. Regarding counter surfing I think I would make sure there was nothing up there then eventually she might stop looking. My guy now will take things off the dresser like a box of kleenex and just take them in the bed. He has to have something in the bed -- must be his security blanket. He likes to carry things and steal but he will not challenge me. Good luck she is a pretty dog. I could never give mine up because I was afraid the next person would use cruelty to train.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

I have little advice for you because I have never had to deal with an aggressive dog. Sounds like you are doing everything right and have shown Summer love from the very beginning of her life. Possibly talk to the breeder and ask if any other of dogs from Summer's litter, or from prior litters, has exhibited aggressive behaviors and resource guarding. Maybe the breeder would have some useful suggestions about how to deal with these issues.


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## Neeko13 (Jul 10, 2010)

I think you should tell your story to Ceasar, the dog whisperer, see if he would be willing to help you...he is fantastic....good luck..


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## morbidangel (Dec 19, 2011)

*well i dunno why people don't allow their dogs to access the couch freely ? well i never said a no to nishka about couch or the bed & den it never was that important too her . Shes a well behaved dog & a part of my family my friends & guests adjust at times when shes on the couch & on other times i just ask her to get down & she does cause she just doesn't care about it anymore ...

Its like with little kids they ll end up doing exactly what you said no for , here a video on teaching your dog to not counter surf *




*One more thing don't just keep on correcting here all the time , & i read somever that 1 should not take their names when your correcting them for eg - nishka no *.. *this might make them think that their name is a negative remark*, 

*plus if you just keep correcting her all the time then your just a bad person in here eyes* , *Nishka at times used to steal stuff too , what i would do is keep something she loves more den her life handy *, *in our case it was her favorite toy i would just pick it up & start running all over the house like the roof was falling down , in an instant she would start running behind me & i would ask my sister to take back the thing she had stolen ..


& why don't start teaching her that every time you approach her , she gets a treat *,* just buy a treat pouch wrap it around your waist *,* & keep approaching her & make eye contact from different corners of the room ..eventually she ll get the hang that you coming close to her is just a treat time !! *

*hope it helps & have you posted any pictures of her i would love to see the lil princess*


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## newport (Aug 8, 2011)

I had a Cocker Spanial who I got at 5 months old. Cute as a button.... but had the same aggressive ways as your pup. Bit me several times. I could not brush him as if I hit a snarl he would snap at me so I had to have a groomer shave him. He was food aggressive also. And at times he would just look at me and growl and bare his teeth at me for no reason..... I kept him for 13 years as I loved him - kind of understood his Dr. Jekel- Mr Hyde personality...... and I could not give him to anyone else being the way he was. It was a very sad and upsetting situation... I know how you feel.... If you can not resolve the aggressive ways you may need to make the decision. Keep the dog and just deal with it - or put him down. No one can make that decision except you.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

At 7 months old she is a total teenage brat. I would ask your trainer to come to your home to observe her behavior so she can help you deal with these problems directly.

Some this biting at you is just bratty mouthiness, but you do need to find a way to teach her not to put teeth on skin. I would not call her aggressive at this point, it really sounds like she is a mouthy, bratty puppy. 

I hope your trainer can help. If you need to have yet another trainer come out to evaluate her in your home to see what she is doing so they can give you direct instructions for those situations.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I would look for a behaviorist, not just another trainer. There are two types of behaviorists that are qualified to deal with human aggressive dogs. The first is a veterinary behaviorist, they are vets who have extra training and an internship in behavior. Look at the ACVB website. The other place to find a qualified behaviorist is to go with a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist. This is a website to find one of these. The Vet Behaviorist is like a human psychiatrist and the CAAB is like a human psychologist, both types have extensive training and use scientifically verified techniques to help their clients.

But when you are dealing with human aggression, you really need to skip the "trainers" and go to a qualified behaviorist.


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## Judi (Feb 26, 2007)

I adopted a 6 month old puppy that I thought would be fine. I am pretty sure that she was abused but I thought love would change things. I was wrong. The damage was done and she attacked my old Golden Retriever. This dog could have had a heart attack. Her heart was beeting fast and she was bleeding. I had to return her to the shelter where she was adopted. I know you don't want to read this but an aggressive dog is a dangerous dog. Biting is not acceptable. I don't want anything worse to happen in your family!


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

I'm so very sorry that you and your gal are going through this.

First, nobody should live with a dog who bites enough to make them afraid. There are several threads on the GRF about those behavior and the heartache that they caused.

Second, thyroid disorders can cause aggressive behavior in Goldens, so I would start by having a full thyroid panel (blood test) done. Dr. Jean Dodds of Hemopet is an expert on this subject and I understand that she will respond to email if you contact her: Home.

Wishing you peace and joy,
Lucy


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

KathyL said:


> Is she still young, like under 2? My second golden was awful and would jump on me and not bite but mouth my arm. I took him to obedience and he was a quick learner and she always used him as the little model. Get him home and a different story. It took me two years and he ended up being great. I remember I used to carry a cheap perfume when I walked him and the minute he turned to mouth me I just had to hold the perfume to his nose and he backed off. He rarely got squirted. Maybe for the counter put out something loaded with tabasco and let her take it -- she might not be so quick to do that again. Mine also had to carry something all the time and if he found a ball, branch or even a soda can he would pick it and and turn around to take it back home. He would even carry his bag of doggie-doo home just proud with the bag swinging back and forth. Regarding counter surfing I think I would make sure there was nothing up there then eventually she might stop looking. My guy now will take things off the dresser like a box of kleenex and just take them in the bed. He has to have something in the bed -- must be his security blanket. He likes to carry things and steal but he will not challenge me. Good luck she is a pretty dog. I could never give mine up because I was afraid the next person would use cruelty to train.


Yes, she is under 2. Summer is 7 months old and I hope you're right. I hope it's just an age thing. I would never re-home her, because just like you, I'd be afraid of the way people would handle her. She is too precious to be and I would die if I knew she was being abused somehow.


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

Max's Dad said:


> I have little advice for you because I have never had to deal with an aggressive dog. Sounds like you are doing everything right and have shown Summer love from the very beginning of her life. Possibly talk to the breeder and ask if any other of dogs from Summer's litter, or from prior litters, has exhibited aggressive behaviors and resource guarding. Maybe the breeder would have some useful suggestions about how to deal with these issues.


Unfortunately I know who her breeder is and I have her pedigree info and all that, but we made the BIGGEST mistake of buying her at a pet store one afternoon while at the mall buying a present for a friend's birthday. We just walked by the store and this tiny, skinny little dog looked at me and I fell in love immediately. If I knew any better at the time, I wouldn't have done that. Lesson learned I'd say, will never buy dogs at pet stores anymore. Will go to a breeder next time (if there's a next time...) 

Anyway, couldn't find any information on her breeder. A phone number of anything online, so I really don't know how to contact him.


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

Nash666 said:


> I think you should tell your story to Ceasar, the dog whisperer, see if he would be willing to help you...he is fantastic....good luck..


You think he would? I might give that a try, thank you!


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

morbidangel said:


> *well i dunno why people don't allow their dogs to access the couch freely ? well i never said a no to nishka about couch or the bed & den it never was that important too her . Shes a well behaved dog & a part of my family my friends & guests adjust at times when shes on the couch & on other times i just ask her to get down & she does cause she just doesn't care about it anymore ...
> 
> Its like with little kids they ll end up doing exactly what you said no for , here a video on teaching your dog to not counter surf *Solving Counter Surfing- Clicker Dog Training - YouTube
> 
> ...


The reason we don't allow Summer on the furniture is because I am very allergic to animals, but I love them so much that I take medicine everyday to be able to be around her. If she goes on the couch or bed, it makes me very sick and I have a very hard time breathing. 

We don't use her name when correcting them, we use the "look" command and she looks at us pretty well... it's just something else I'm afraid.


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

newport said:


> I had a Cocker Spanial who I got at 5 months old. Cute as a button.... but had the same aggressive ways as your pup. Bit me several times. I could not brush him as if I hit a snarl he would snap at me so I had to have a groomer shave him. He was food aggressive also. And at times he would just look at me and growl and bare his teeth at me for no reason..... I kept him for 13 years as I loved him - kind of understood his Dr. Jekel- Mr Hyde personality...... and I could not give him to anyone else being the way he was. It was a very sad and upsetting situation... I know how you feel.... If you can not resolve the aggressive ways you may need to make the decision. Keep the dog and just deal with it - or put him down. No one can make that decision except you.


Oh my Gosh, this is so hard. I don't think I could put her to sleep. I can't look at her and imagine not seeing her everyday. She is such a good girl when she doesn't bite or growl.... I love her so much.


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

mylissyk said:


> At 7 months old she is a total teenage brat. I would ask your trainer to come to your home to observe her behavior so she can help you deal with these problems directly.
> 
> Some this biting at you is just bratty mouthiness, but you do need to find a way to teach her not to put teeth on skin. I would not call her aggressive at this point, it really sounds like she is a mouthy, bratty puppy.
> 
> I hope your trainer can help. If you need to have yet another trainer come out to evaluate her in your home to see what she is doing so they can give you direct instructions for those situations.


That's what I'm thinking (hoping) too. That she's just being a stubborn teenager and she'll get over it. I will definitely ask my trainer to come over and see her. Thank you!


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

Selli-Belle said:


> I would look for a behaviorist, not just another trainer. There are two types of behaviorists that are qualified to deal with human aggressive dogs. The first is a veterinary behaviorist, they are vets who have extra training and an internship in behavior. Look at the ACVB website. The other place to find a qualified behaviorist is to go with a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist. This is a website to find one of these. The Vet Behaviorist is like a human psychiatrist and the CAAB is like a human psychologist, both types have extensive training and use scientifically verified techniques to help their clients.
> 
> But when you are dealing with human aggression, you really need to skip the "trainers" and go to a qualified behaviorist.


Thank you for the tip. I will talk to my husband about finding us a behaviorist also.


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

GoldensGirl said:


> I'm so very sorry that you and your gal are going through this.
> 
> First, nobody should live with a dog who bites enough to make them afraid. There are several threads on the GRF about those behavior and the heartache that they caused.
> 
> ...


thank you!!! I will definitely ask her vet for a full thyroid panel on Tuesday when I take her in. You're giving me new hope!! thank you very very much!


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

It sounds like your dog is taking advantage of it's adolescent age and needs more structure in her world. She is also being variably reinforced for doing the wrong things. I would develop a routine that includes obedience training for mental stimulation an exercise plan and definite direction. For example instead of giving a correction for getting on the couch or whatever teach your dog what behavior you would like instead. My dogs have a spot that I have taught them to go to whenever I need them out of the way. I have taught them "go to bed" means they go lay on their beds for a while.
I too went through a terrible time with one of my Goldens. She would snarl and growl and bit mostly out of fear. I really increased my training time with her and worked with a behaviorist that helped me to understand what made her tick. She is a great dog today and I even competed in obedience trials with her. No one would believe she was once an unpredictable and scary girl. She also had thyroid issues which were treated. That in itself did not resolve her issues but possibly took off some of the "edge" she was experiencing.
Have your vet run a blood panel and check her thyroid.
Get more structure in her life. Check into a behaviorist that can offer you better help than "nah nah". I know he is controversial and some people like him but FORGET the suggestion of Ceasar or you will have more trouble in the long run (JMHO).
I wish you the best. It sounds like you are trying you just need more direction to corral you pup.


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

ms_summer said:


> thank you!!! I will definitely ask her vet for a full thyroid panel on Tuesday when I take her in. You're giving me new hope!! thank you very very much!


If your vet says the results are "low normal," please be aware that "low normal" is abnormally low for Goldens. Our Golden fur-kids need to be at the upper end of the normal range, according to many threads and much evidence.

I so hope that you find a solution for your gal.


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## goldy1 (Aug 5, 2012)

My heart goes out to you because I have been where you are. One of the most difficult things I ever dealt with.

It was my German Shepherd Dog many years ago. Funny thing is, I learned more about dogs, training, and behavior from this one dog than all my others put together. Because I felt I HAD to! His life depended on it because there aren't many good places for a GSD that bites. I always felt he was with us for a reason and it was my obligation to help us all live together harmoniously.

I believe positive training is the only way to go. The "Nothing in Life is Free" or "No Free Lunch" program works. Read "Dogs Behaving Badly" by Nick Dodman. He did a consult with us. He's at Tuft's (or was back in 1998 when I was having the same problem you are having).

The one thing you said that worries me a little "we try to shower her with love and attention". For now, follow the NILF program and give her attention in the form of exercise but hold back on the love part. I hate to say this but she may take advantage when she detects weakness on your part. Truthfully, this was the hardest thing for me to learn to do but I did it because my dog's life depended on it.

Please read Dr. Dodman's books and check into a consult with the Behavior Clinic at Tufts. They may be able to guide you. 

I am praying for you because you will need to be strong to help your girl and it will be hard because you sound sweet and giving with a lot of love for her. She needs to earn your affection and then it will be there for her.
Good luck and keep us posted. We care!


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## goldy1 (Aug 5, 2012)

This is very true. The situation needs to be brought under control.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

your Summer can sense your fear and use it to her advantage. Seems like you are doing everything you can to show her love, but she is challenging your authority and knows she is in control and not you. She is becoming the leader of the pack. 
As morbidangel said, everytime she tries to protect something, get a treat and approach her with it. Try to get her attention with something else she may like more than what she is protecting at that time. Make sure you do not corner/trap her when you approach her.


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## Wearefamily (Aug 1, 2012)

My buddy used to grab food off the counter, one time he grabbed a whole loaf of bread. I sensed something was up since he was so quiet. I found him under the kitchen table. He ate the whole loaf including the plastic bag. He had a huge wad of bread stuck at the roof of his mouth.
Since then, when I fed him, I would hold the bowl his food was in and I'd have him sit before setting it down. Other times I would scoop some food out of his bowl and have him eat out of my hand. Sometimes I would hold the bowl, while I'm down on one knee, and let him eat a little the pull the bowl away for like 15 seconds then let him eat more. It does sound like a trust issue. And as soon as she trusts you, you'll be able to trust her....mostly


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## morbidangel (Dec 19, 2011)

I was reading an article that was talking about aggressive dog breeds. Here's the thing, There ARE aggressive dogs. Perhaps there are even breeds that have a higher proportion of aggression than other breeds. However, even in these circumstances, the percentage of dogs that are aggressive in that breed is still minuscule. 

More traffic violations occur in fast cars than sedans (proportionately speaking). Therefore we should ban these cars. After all, it’s not the driver’s fault, right? It’s the car’s fault for going fast. 

By this logic, since most serial killers are white, then perhaps we should imprison white people. Oh and while we are at it, since sometimes a man hits a woman, then perhaps we should not allow co-habitation. 

This is the exact logic used to discriminate against various dog breeds. It is primitive and behind the times. One thing is certain, each circumstance is different and should be dealt with on an individual basis. Come on! We know from our history that painting with broad strokes is such an immature way of thinking!

The overwhelming majority of dogs that are considered aggressive, are made that way by people. It’s the macho *******/thug who gets a stereotypically aggressive dog and brings it out in them. Dogs are happy to take direction from us. When we tell them that it is okay to behave this way, of course they are bound to listen in many cases. Their biggest crime in most cases, is listening to people.

I have thought long and hard about what it will take to change this perception. The only realistic answer is education. To those of you who are like-minded, continue to inform the public when you have the opportunity. 

-Zak George

Zak's Facebook page this guy might be helpful -Zak George | Facebook


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

Does she draw blood when she bites, an actual puncture wound? We have been dealing with extreme mouthing since the day we adopted our now 9 month old GR. She came to us at 4 months and has been proclaimed as not aggressive by two behavioral/trainers. She has low self confidence and absolutely no tolerance for frustration. She is the first (and last) puppy we have had in over 20 years. She is off the wall in energy and since we work is in a crate a lot. I get up over an hour earlier each day so she can have at least an hour of play before we go to work. I work close to home so I come home every day so she can have at least 30 minutes at lunch and I am home by 4:45 each day. When she gets frustrated she snaps and bites. She gets the zoomies and she bites. She gets excited and she bites. She isn’t aggressive (again I say), but when you get bit at it still hurts. She rarely draws blood so it’s more like serious mouthing and she does cause bruises. I am doing the nothing in life is free thing with her. I play with her a lot. She knows sit, down, stay, come, touch and we are working on a better stay. She is in a nose work class and excels in that. She is also in a puppy obedience class. She is corrected for mouthing hands and arms with a stern “no bite” and I will hold her mouth shut for a second. Everything else we use is very positive training, but there must be at least some consequence for snapping. No matter how many times I have to do this I will and I know that she will be a great dog one day, but my husband has washed his hands of her and wants nothing to do with her because of her issues. I know she can sense his frustration which causes her to become worse with him. She can be lying calmly in a room chewing on a bully stick and if he walks in the room she goes nuts jumping and snapping. He sits on the sofa and she jumps into his lap and she will be good for about 10 seconds and then she gets excited and snaps and mouths. He has lost all patience for her and it shows. She wants his attention and she is not getting it. My hope is that one day she will calm down enough that he can deal with her. I am getting a good education on behavior problems. I’m reading lots of great books (Patricia McConnell and Sophia Yin to name a few). I know that if I continue on as I’m going she will one day be a great dog. That day just can’t come soon enough. Good luck to you.


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## shysky (Jul 28, 2012)

I might be way off but it's worth looking into. I had an americian eskimo years ago. He was very loving most of the time but sometimes out of the blue his eyes would look glossy and he would act like he didnt reconize me he would growl and snap at me. I became scared of him but he was my first dog and i just thought he had that personality where he only wanted to snuggle when it was right for him. It wasnt till he was five and became ill I took him to the vet they at first said he seemed fine but when they went to take blood he had a heart attack and passed away. The doctor said he thinks he may have had seziures and the times when he was turning on me he might have been in a seziure state. I thought with seziures you would see signs of shaking and such but we never thought he had any kind of serious complications like that. I hope your baby gets the help she needs..


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

Okay, a reply that I think it's necessary. 

Honestly, I don't believe we are the ones that make her aggressive like somebody said. Summer has never been abused by us, we are not aggressive people, we don't have screaming in my house, we definitely don't hit each other or our dog, and we live in a very calm environment. We have used a stern tone of voice with her, but we have NEVER yelled at her. 

Summer has been growling since the FIRST day we got her at 8 weeks. We bought her at a Pet store because we fell in love with her (and we really didn't know anything about puppy mills at all, and we honestly were not planning to have any puppies -- again, we just fell in love with her.) It is pretty normal where I'm originally from to buy dogs in pet stores and my older Golden was bought at a Pet store and is the best dog ever, however they come directly from breeders and not puppy mills.... So, like I said, she has been growling since day one, tried to bite on day 2. We were always patient with her because we didn't know the reason she was being that way, but suspected it was because she was very hungry. She was skinny and visibly smaller than the other golden that was with her (he was twice her size) and pretty lethargic (now we know why!) and was "sold" to us as just being a calm, mellow puppy... Poor thing was just so hungry she had no energy! Anyway, we worked on her resource guarding and she is doing much better with it. But she started growling and trying to bite for no reason now. Like i said before, we knew she was protective of her food, so we know how to deal with it. It was just a surprise for us that she was also "protecting" the couch, the counter, her paw, and many other things.... I don't think she is aggressive at all thinking clearly now, but I can't lie that I have thought about it many times, especially when she tries to bite or bite us. 

She is a wonderful girl, very energetic but typical puppy behavior _most times_. She plays fine with other dogs, so I think her problem is people. I don't think her problem is "mommy" honestly. Since she tried to bite my mother, growled at my husband, my baby sister and even the neighbor already when she walked closer to her when she had a bone. Again, the neighbor's dog was there chewing on a bone beside her, tails touching and such and she was good. She only growled when the neighbor walked to them. So like I said, her problem is people.

She has never drawn blood, only accidentally when playing with us and she got too excited. She doesn't show teeth, but she will still try to bite us after growling once. And over silly things like her trying to jump on the counter and us saying she is not allowed, or sitting on the couch when she knows clearly from living with us for 5 months that the furniture is not for her. Yes, we could just give up and let her stay on the couch, but wouldn't that make her think that SHE is in control? It is MY house after all, and MY rules. She is a puppy, a baby, and I as her owner and mommy, know what is best for her and that I am protecting her from harm. 

We exercise her well, she goes for 30 mins walks in the morning now (too hot for longer walks in phoenix), plays for about 20-30 mins with her doggie BFF next door, and then at night the same, another 20 mins of play date, another 15-20-30 mins walk depending on the weather. She has toys that we rotate DAILY since she gets bored so easily. She loves elk antlers and her nylabones and doesn't guard them. She is fine with her treats, although we don't give her anything that lasts too long, only small treats that she can eat fast and also she works for it (we do NILF here...)

I am taking her to the vet tomorrow and will request a complete blood work. I am hoping she is just acting like a crazy teenager and will eventually get over this behavior. She is adorable most times, but she needs to understand that is NOT ACCEPTABLE to even think of biting us. Also i'd like to add that she is NOT afraid of us. She is a very fearless dog, but maybe where she came from a person was mean to her or something similar and she got that idea that she can't completely trust humans? I don't know, just thinking out loud... Will check with her trainer and talk with her vet if she knows of any behaviorists that we can talk to and hopefully take a look at her to see if what we're dealing with is only a bratty teenager or maybe an aggressive dog for real... 

I will not, however, give up on my dog. When I bought her I promised her that we'd be together always and that I'd do my best to make her the happiest dog ever. And I will do everything possible to keep that promise. 

Thanks again for all the feedback... it was very helpful.


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

Oh, also.. she is not left alone in the house for long --- maybe 1 hour the most, and we have noticed that this behavior (growling/biting) became more often after she got fixed. Should I mention that to her vet tomorrow?


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

What are her consquences when she bites?


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## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

I really feel for you, I know it's not easy. Years ago we rescued a 5 month old male GR, he was great in every way but if I touched his collar he would bite my arm HARD. We took puppy classes and when I showed the instructor what he did when I touched his collar she said, "so, don't touch his collar". Needless to say that's the last time we went there.
After several months of trying to "fix" the problem myself I made an appointment with a dog behaviorist, he was wonderful! $95. for 1 hour and 1 hour was all we needed. I was there every second watching and to this day I can't tell you how or what he did but all I know is Buddy never, ever bit me again. Money well spent!
Nobody ever believes me when I tell this story but that's ok. My husband and I were there to see it happen and we had Buddy for 12 glorious years.
I wish you all the best and hope you can get to the bottom of this. ♥


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

You received some awesome advice- really impressive people on the forum. It is so hard when your own dog shows aggression to people in the house, bc it is hard not to feel betrayed. It's a tough situation, especially if it stems back to something in the litter or "wiring" in part. 

Just a few other ideas:

*Have her drag a six foot leash, so you can step on it before she does something like jump on the counter, but yet the restraint will not be connected with your hands. 

* If a tooth touches human skin, even if you think it is an accident, all the fun stops every time. The toy goes up on a high shelf, the dog goes in her crate. 

*Immediately give her a chance to succeed by asking her for a default down. Make her down for everything she wants( rather than sit for it). The problem is that dogs do what they practice/rehearse, so you want to manage her so well for a while that she has no chance to growl or snap. Crate her, get her out to work and play with her, but no freedom in the kitchen etc. 

If you truly think she might bite, protect her from a bite history. No one loves for their dog to wear a muzzle, but a gentle leader can be adjusted to give a little safety. A well fitted muzzle in the short term is much better than her biting while you are in the processes of solving the problem. She can easily be taught to embrace it, but humans hate it. 

Reward her some of the time with a thin layer of peanut butter on a metal spoon to work on her bite inhibition and awareness of her mouth. 

Socialize, socialize, socialize - get her out and about having adventures in the real world daily.

Practice collar grabs when you are both in great moods and make it fun, with lots of rewards for letting you touch her collar or lean over her. Conversely, don't lean or loom over her when you are angry/she is naughty, or grab her collar. 


I worked with Nicholas Dodman at Tufts, and the very first thing he tries is lowering the protein drastically( and sometimes supplementing with L-Tyrptophan, but that should only be under a vet's care). Go all the way down to Fromm Mature Adult or Canidae Platinum. This is complicated though, bc she is a puppy still. It could be some of her aggression is biological/"hard-wired" and low protein addresses. Just a thought.

Up her exercise so she is truly tired every single day.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

Reading your last post - one thing I would do to help manage her behavior is no more high value treats that tend to create an event - such as "chewing on her bone." If she is growling at people or attacking people who get close to her when she has item x, for example, a bone - you need to not let her have those things. Feeding time you can control the environment - feed her where no one will be near her and maybe in 2 smaller amounts - morning and night - so she's hungry enough to eat it all. No free feeding. If you have decided you will keep her no matter what- then perhaps you need to think about behavior management and avoiding situations you know will bring out a negative behavior in her.


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

Wyatt's mommy said:


> What are her consquences when she bites?


if she has a toy for example and growls, she gets the negative remark and she loses the toy. if she bites, we give her the negative remark, she goes on time out and is completely ignored (loses all attention) for a short while, like 5 to 8 minutes.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

ms_summer said:


> if she has a toy for example and growls, she gets the negative remark and she loses the toy. if she bites, we give her the negative remark, she goes on time out and is completely ignored (loses all attention) for a short while, like 5 to 8 minutes.


What do you think the growl means and why do you think she growls if/when she has a toy?


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

momtoMax said:


> Reading your last post - one thing I would do to help manage her behavior is no more high value treats that tend to create an event - such as "chewing on her bone." If she is growling at people or attacking people who get close to her when she has item x, for example, a bone - you need to not let her have those things. Feeding time you can control the environment - feed her where no one will be near her and maybe in 2 smaller amounts - morning and night - so she's hungry enough to eat it all. No free feeding. If you have decided you will keep her no matter what- then perhaps you need to think about behavior management and avoiding situations you know will bring out a negative behavior in her.


Yeah, we don't give her bones, but she got one at the neighbor's house from her dogs... We don't do high value treats with her anymore, especially not at other people's house, lol!

ETA: And yeah, I'm decided to keep her and work with her to try and fix this situation. I owe it to her. However, if I see her behavior got worse and there's no way to help her, I will have to think of something else. Hopefully that won't be the case & she will get better


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

Charliethree said:


> What do you think the growl means and why do you think she growls if/when she has a toy?


I don't think it's a playful growl. She usually does not growl with a toy, it was just an example. But let me give you an example of what happened last month. We gave her this toy that was a hard plastic bone with ropes on the side. She started eating the plastic and I guess it means to her that it is "food" if she is chewing it.... So I went there to get the toy from her, and this time my mistake, because we usually trade for a treat or something else "high value" if she is guarding stuff, and I didn't this time. So I talked with her and said "Summer, mommy will take your toy because you can't eat plastic" in a calm voice, because she never really cared if we got her toys, so I was not expecting her to growl. She did and I told her a firm no, and tried to get the toy again. She let me get it, but she also bit my hand. So I'd say the growl means "back off" ?


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

Ljilly28 said:


> You received some awesome advice- really impressive people on the forum. It is so hard when your own dog shows aggression to people in the house, bc it is hard not to feel betrayed. It's a tough situation, especially if it stems back to something in the litter or "wiring" in part.
> 
> Just a few other ideas:
> 
> ...


thank you so much!! i will definitely try your tips!!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Absolutely, the growl is your warning - never ever ignore the 'warning'- stop doing what you are doing, and never correct her for growling -you do not want to silence the 'warning' -she is trying to communicate to you in the only way she knows how, that she is not comfortable 'okay' with what you are doing. Ignore the growl (which you did in that instance) and it pushes the dog to become more intense - 'I told you - stop!' (which she did).


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

Charliethree said:


> Absolutely, the growl is your warning - never ever ignore the 'warning'- stop doing what you are doing, and never correct her for growling -you do not want to silence the 'warning' -she is trying to communicate to you in the only way she knows how, that she is not comfortable 'okay' with what you are doing. Ignore the growl (which you did in that instance) and it pushes the dog to become more intense - 'I told you - stop!' (which she did).


you are absolutely correct! my mistake was ignoring the warning. i usually always trade with her in situations i think she will growl, but since i was not expecting her to growl over a toy, i reacted the way i did..

How do you think though, I should react when she growls and bites?


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

When you say she bites, do you mean "tear multiple chunks out of you, lots of blood" type bite, or just put her mouth on you but not close down?


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

mylissyk said:


> When you say she bites, do you mean "tear multiple chunks out of you, lots of blood" type bite, or just put her mouth on you but not close down?


she has never hurt skin, but she makes a nasty sound, tries to go for your hand, if you're fast enough to remove it, it won't touch you, but if you're not, it touches you a bit, but not enough to close down... i think halfway into the bite, she kinda changes her mind.. reason i think she can get better at it... problem is that it's so random. sometimes we touch her and she growls, even if we only wanted to give her love and all, she will growl as if she doesn't like to be touched... and other times, she will be fine with it.  we noticed that any time we are correcting her, she WILL growl. trainer said she is "only" talking back, but i don't know.. she is only my second dog, and my older golden has never done it before, so I rely on the trainer and the vet (she tried to bite vet when she was 9 wks old) that said she is aggressive.... (impossible for a 9 week old IMO :uhoh: and we changed vets because i didn't like his comment about her...)


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Then you are right that she is telling you with the growl she doesn't like what is happenening, and so far she has used good bite inhibition and has not done the damage she is capable of.

When she growls change your approach, step away and call her to you, or lure her to you with a treat or favorite toy. This is behavior you can manage, but it requires you to always be one step ahead of her and communicating all the time.

Have you considered seeing a certified veterinarian behaviorist for an evaluation?


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

mylissyk said:


> Then you are right that she is telling you with the growl she doesn't like what is happenening, and so far she has used good bite inhibition and has not done the damage she is capable of.
> 
> When she growls change your approach, step away and call her to you, or lure her to you with a treat or favorite toy. This is behavior you can manage, but it requires you to always be one step ahead of her and communicating all the time.
> 
> Have you considered seeing a certified veterinarian behaviorist for an evaluation?


Yes, I am definitely considering that. I will talk with her vet tomorrow and ask if she knows of somebody she thinks it's good.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Just curious: 

You say she "knows" she's not supposed to jump up and steal food off the counter or get on the couch. What have you done to teach that? Often, when we attempt to teach those things by correcting the dog when he does it wrong, the dog learns it's wise to gamble and try the behavior when he thinks he can get away with it.

On the other hand, if you taught the dog to do something else instead ... as in, lie on a dog bed in either location, you have a very specific thing for her do do - which is easier for most dogs to learn.

Imagine getting in a cab and telling the driver where you don't want to go. Who does that? We tell him where to take us. 

A similar approach works very well with dogs, too. Teach what you want vs. wait for her to screw up and attempt to punish what you don't like.


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

There is such good advice in this thread. I have never dealt with the level of behavior you are dealing with, and I commend you for trying so hard.

Just a couple things jumped out at me in your first post:

* when you said "ahh ahh" when she took the pizza, and then let her eat it, you were inadvertently rewarding her for that behavior. Stealing should be illegal and she should NOT get to keep what she stole.

* It sounds like she might be confused about her role. I know she is just a puppy, so maybe some of that is puppy antics, but I have to say that I don't think "showering her with love" is going to solve any of your problems. In addition to lots of love, make very sure you are providing structure, consistency, and following through on ALL corrections. I'm not trying to be critical, it's just that your posts gave me the impression that you feel she should trust you because you love her. Trust isn't built from love alone. You might know this already... my pup is 8 months old. He trusts us because he knows all food comes from his people, corrections are firm, clear, and followed by praise, the rules are the same every single day, etc.

good luck to you! I hope you are able to resolve this


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I agree with what most everyone else has said. A growl is a warning, it means back off or I'm uncomfortable or.... The fact she has had human skin in her mouth and not broken the skin shows she has bite inhibition... That is a good thing. I think it is important to pick my dog battles. So your dog grabs a Kleenex or a piece of pizza crust, don't fight it.... But independently work on giving things up for a treat. I had a client that MADE her dog extremely possessive aggressive, by ripping everything out of his mouth and he did not have bite inhibition. Then her husband was into the whole alpha roll thing, talk about making a dog fear aggressive. One of the ways my trainer friend worked with him was to make him carry a dumbbell in his mouth until she decided it was time for him to drop it.


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## goldy1 (Aug 5, 2012)

I am amazed by the great observations and advice so far. This is an awesome group of people. I posted early on and after having read your latest posts, you also sound awesome and committed. Get a good plan by working with a behaviorist in conjunction with your vet. Stay focused. You learn a lot more from the tough cases than from all your easy ones put together. We are all pulling for you.


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## Tucker's mommy (Nov 9, 2011)

Hi there! I have to apologize if I'm sounding redundant - but this post caught my eye - I don't have time to read through all the earlier threads. 

When our Tucker, who is now 15 months old, was between 7-11 months, we went through a VERY rough stretch with him. Mouthing, growling, snapping, biting at us when he wanted his way or was being disciplined, not to mention CRAZY outside behaviour, where he was playing far too rough. We had a couple of trainers into the house, not to mention two rounds of obedience, and through all of this, with tons of exercise, lots of structure and positive reinforcement, he took a turn for the better, and we see him growing into a wonderful family pet. 

One thing that sounds rather obvious, but I realized I was overlooking it in a big way, was not forgetting to give him the praise when he did the RIGHT thing. For example, when you're asking him to get off the couch, and he gets off, or if he successfully "leaves it" on a walk as you are going past trash, don't forget the praise. We now see his little face light up when he hears the words "good boy". Sometimes we follow with a treat, sometimes we don't. We're at the point now where we just give him treats to keep him interested. 

Don't give up - I don't know how old your pup is, but I swear, those teenage months are SOOOOOOOO hard. And our progress was so slow in coming, it wasn't until quite recently that we realized, wow, Tucker's not such a bad pup anymore! Good luck to you! Feel free to search through my older posts - especially the ones I titled "dominance issues" - We've come a long way.


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## Suni52 (Jan 18, 2012)

FlyingQuizini said:


> .
> 
> Imagine getting in a cab and telling the driver where you don't want to go. Who does that? We tell him where to take us.
> 
> A similar approach works very well with dogs, too. Teach what you want vs. wait for her to screw up and attempt to punish what you don't like.


 What a great way to put it!!!!!! Never thought of it that way.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

toliva said:


> There is such good advice in this thread. I have never dealt with the level of behavior you are dealing with, and I commend you for trying so hard.
> 
> Just a couple things jumped out at me in your first post:
> 
> * when you said "ahh ahh" when she took the pizza, and then let her eat it, you were inadvertently rewarding her for that behavior. Stealing should be illegal and she should NOT get to keep what she stole.


Just a thought. From the dog's perspective, once it was in her mouth, she "won". It doesn't really matter what happens after in terms of how long she gets to keep it. She already successfully scavenged it off the counter, which is inherently rewarding.

When a dog guards, it's usually wise to look for peaceful resolution. Why remind a dog that she is walking around, at all times, with a lethal weapon in her mouth? Yes, stealing should be illegal - but law enforcement needs to come into play BEFORE it's in her mouth. If you can catch her as she's about to jump onto the counter, an "ahh ahh!" can interrupt the unwanted behavior and prevent the stealing. But once she has it, she's already shown you that she's willing to fight you for it. No need to practice that.

If it won't kill her to eat it or cost you more than $100 to replace it, leave it alone, or if you can't stand that idea, trade her for it. But if you keep insisting that you get things back from a dog who has proven she'll guard, she'll keep thinking she has to bite you.

If you keep insisting, you're getting into a pissing contest.

Beat bet is to prevent it and teach alternate behaviors. Then think if terms of peaceful resolution vs. rehearing aggression if and when she gets something.

All that said, in dogs who DON'T guard, we most often can go take things that they steal (of course, that MAKES some guard, but that's another topic). But if a dog's a guarder, I find it's often better to try a little reverse psychology and take the attention off the "forbidden" item and concentrate on teaching a new set of skills that prevents stealing in the first place, then gradually teaching the dog you're not a threat while near his valuable stuff.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Just a thought. From the dog's perspective, once it was in her mouth, she "won". It doesn't really matter what happens after in terms of how long she gets to keep it. She already successfully scavenged it off the counter, which is inherently rewarding.
> 
> When a dog guards, it's usually wise to look for peaceful resolution. Why remind a dog that she is walking around, at all times, with a lethal weapon in her mouth? Yes, stealing should be illegal - but law enforcement needs to come into play BEFORE it's in her mouth. If you can catch her as she's about to jump onto the counter, an "ahh ahh!" can interrupt the unwanted behavior and prevent the stealing. But once she has it, she's already shown you that she's willing to fight you for it. No need to practice that.
> 
> ...


I just have to say - ****, you're good!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

laprincessa said:


> I just have to say - ****, you're good!


Awww, thanks!


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## perdie (Oct 30, 2008)

When my dog was younger he was VERY possesive over tennis balls -he would eat them which is very dangerous obviously!
Whenever he would find one (which was daily because we have tennis courts backing onto the fields)he would gobble it right down almost whole if he thought you were coming for it. 
If he couldnt eat it in time he would growl &twice he snapped at me, I was devastated because in every other way he was an awesome,obedient,loving dog. Initially we had to have him muzzle trained fo his own safety whilst we came up with a solution-also very upsetting.

Our behaviourist suggested we swap everything he had for treats (high value,we used cheese/sausage ). We did it ALL the time initially, with ANYTHING he had in his mouth a sock, a toy, a piece of paper,the mail,a bottle anything. We did it in a discreet way at first bearing in mind doggy body language with lots of praise when he gave it up, then gave him the item back which he then wasnt that interested in as he was more interested in getting another treat&being made a fuss of. He learned that when we take things away he can trust us to give them back. Very gradually we would sometimes give back, sometimes we wouldnt &when we started that phase we would treat then distract by putting the item completely out of sight&playing with him. 
It might sound simple but it worked well for us, the whole process has taken about 7 months (and he still has his off days) there are many things to consider as you know, tone of voice, approaching your dog/dog body langauge, maybe give her a new command so she doesnt associate her negative behaviour with you 'taking' from her. Just a few thoughtsanyway, I hope you're succesful I know how frustrating&upsetting this must be for you.


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Just curious:
> 
> You say she "knows" she's not supposed to jump up and steal food off the counter or get on the couch. What have you done to teach that? Often, when we attempt to teach those things by correcting the dog when he does it wrong, the dog learns it's wise to gamble and try the behavior when he thinks he can get away with it.
> 
> ...


When I say she knows how not to jump on the counter or the furniture, is because her first trainer taught us to send her to a little mat when we're in the kitchen and to stay by our feet when we're on the couch...(that's where we put her bed also  it usually works pretty well, especially the kitchen mat, but she sure LOVES the couch now... I think she got confused about the whole furniture thing because we have play dates with the neighbor's dogs and some days is at my house, and some at hers, and when Summer is at the neighbors' house the neighbor allows her to go on the furniture, since the other dogs are allowed too... She only tries the couch when we're in the living room though, when she's home alone/at night (and she has the living room to herself), she is ALWAYS on her bed.


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

toliva said:


> * when you said "ahh ahh" when she took the pizza, and then let her eat it, you were inadvertently rewarding her for that behavior. Stealing should be illegal and she should NOT get to keep what she stole.


I agree. Stealing should be illegal. But WE KNOW she is going to act protective of the food and might even try to bite us if we go after her when she has the pizza. And unfortunately, she not always respects the command leave it although she does it SOOO well in classes... We are working on that harder now with our trainer and I have hope she'll get the hang of it.... She is super smart dog.


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

Tucker's mommy said:


> Hi there! I have to apologize if I'm sounding redundant - but this post caught my eye - I don't have time to read through all the earlier threads.
> 
> When our Tucker, who is now 15 months old, was between 7-11 months, we went through a VERY rough stretch with him. Mouthing, growling, snapping, biting at us when he wanted his way or was being disciplined, not to mention CRAZY outside behaviour, where he was playing far too rough. We had a couple of trainers into the house, not to mention two rounds of obedience, and through all of this, with tons of exercise, lots of structure and positive reinforcement, he took a turn for the better, and we see him growing into a wonderful family pet.
> 
> ...


I read your posts and I'm SO glad your baby has gotten better! Summer is 7 months and yesterday I took her to the vet and the vet's friend that is a behaviorist (what a coincidence!!!) was there taking his dog to an appointment and they all thought she was great, very calm and polite for a puppy. We talked briefly, but I got his number and will be calling to have him over to see Summer at home. 

We have been following what the great people on this forum have suggested, and praising her lots and instead of correcting her for a bad behavior, showing her what we want her to do. Summer hasn't growled yesterday (which is great!) although she did growl at my baby sister when she accidentally bumped into her two days ago :uhoh: 

We are hopeful she will get better though and become the great pet we want her to be!


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## ms_summer (Mar 23, 2012)

Oh, I also talked with her trainer (and we have class tomorrow) and she said that we can't only tire Summer physically with walks/swimming and such, but that a dog like her (that gets her energy back fast, is very smart and gets bored SO EASILY) needs to be tired mentally too.. So we bought her some dog puzzles and toys that "make her think" and so far that has been working good and keeping her out of trouble for a good hour. She seems to like challenges


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