# Is it ever OK to hit your Golden?



## HovawartMom (Aug 10, 2006)

No,hitting a dog doesn't help and will only make the dog,hand and leash shy!!.
Thank-you both for defending the poor dog who was only doing what a dog does when not trained otherwise!.


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

NO NEVER. I hope the woman does not have any other pets or children. I'm glad your boyfriend defended the dog and stood up to the woman.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

_I only believe in sharing _
_LOVE TAPS! _
_No hitting._

_*I have tugged on their lead to get their attention though.*_​


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## jamesp (Jan 29, 2009)

What kind of a person could actually hit a dog? I don't understand that mentality.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I totally understand why you are so upset. We saw an older senior gentlemen beating his dog while walking ours at a local lake park. I called 911 I was so upset! I don't know what happened because the police have to visibly see the beating, but at least the guy learned it is not acceptable behavior in society.

Unfortunately many of the abused dogs the rescue gets have been hit, beaten, spanked, whatever term you want to apply to it. It takes a long time to help them overcome their past experiences and trust people again.


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## GoldenOwner12 (Jun 18, 2008)

I don't hit my dogs but sometimes i do give them a slight tap on the bottom or snout to get there attention. The tap is more like a pat but i then follow with a No if there doing something bad. I also do give a bit of a tug on the lead if Shelley is pulling a bit too much. Normally i only have to tug on the lead when she hasn't been walked for a few days.


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

It is sad to think about how many animals are mis-treated, beaten, starved... Makes me want to cry


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

While I have plenty of personal feelings about the rightness or wrongness of hitting an animal, even in a controlled fashion as a form of discipline, I usually take a practical angle when I talk to people who do it, rather than moralizing to them about how it's evil. People are usually more willing to listen to a discussion of effective dog training than a claim that essentially calls them bad people.

Hitting doesn't work. Or, more accurately, as a correction, it's more likely to inspire fear or confusion than the negative association you're trying to make with it. A dog who has been taught a "drop" command may be negatively corrected with voice, body language, or even a touch to the neck if he fails to listen. Even those kinds of negative corrections, if applied confusingly, frequently, or too strongly, can result in fear, aggression, or "shyness."

Slapping a dog on the rump or in the face, or any other kind of lashing out with violence, communicates the beginning of an attack. It wipes out most of what else is going on in the dog's head as he prepares to defend himself, fight back, run away, or cower in place if he feels he cannot fight. It's not a kind of communication a dog's brain is able to process into a learning experience. The strength of the correction and the violent attitude of it combine to flood his senses with fear.

If your dog has learned to associate your "ack ack" or "no no" sound with ignoring, negative surprise, leash corrections, etc., you can use to to create new negative associations. If Comet picks up goose poo with his mouth, I say "ack ack." After several repetitions, he'll make the following association: goose poo + mouth = unpleasant feelings. 

If, however, I slap him hard in the head or beat him with the free end of the leash when he picks up the goose poo, he'll probably drop it, but I'll have provided a stimulus so strong, foreign to his instincts, and scary that the goose poop moment will be almost completely forgotten as he enters what he feels is a dangerous confrontation with me. That opportunity for him to learn not to pick up a forbidden item will be lost and he will be less likely to trust my leadership. Instead, he'll be nervous around me because I can be, in his mind, "set off" into a dangerous state with no warning and no cause.

Essentially, the lowest effective level of correction isn't just the best because it's the nicest and least likely to make a fearful dog; it's also the strongest teacher, in terms of long term, repetitive training. A dog who is struck will learn less from the teaching moment and develop the undesired characteristics of a fearful, potentially dangerous animal.

And yes, it's also plain old wrong to hit a dog.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Incidentally, slapping a dog in the head, in particular, is a great way to teach him to bite people. For some dogs, it activates some kind of prey/fighting instinct as well as all the other slew of fearful feelings it inspires.

That's why I'd recommend against even tapping the snout as a correction. It's certainly not "hitting" the dog in the way I went on and on against in my last post, but in some dogs it inspires an urge to nip that can be really problematic. If you feel a touch during a correction is crucial, poking the dog in the side of the neck with two fingers is probably safer. 

I still wouldn't use that technique in most situations, and I absolutely would not use it on a dog that shows any kind of fear, since a fearful dog will get a lot more fearful if you muck about with his neck. But if you have to interrupt a confident, strong willed dog who's really interested in some cat crap, it could work, and, it's much safer than waving your hand around his nose trying to tap him. I wouldn't do it very hard, no matter what the situation. Imagine how hard you'd have to poke a lemon to get it to roll like four feet on a table. That would be about where I'd max out. I know it's an odd metaphor, but I couldn't think of any other way to explain it.


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## maggie1951 (Apr 20, 2007)

I would never hit Daisy or Charlie there is just no need for it.

I once hit a man with a riding whip i was out riding and he was hitting his dog with the lead i went over on horse back and hit him and said how do you like it.


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## Blaireli (Jun 3, 2008)

maggie1951 said:


> I would never hit Daisy or Charlie there is just no need for it.
> 
> I once hit a man with a riding whip i was out riding and he was hitting his dog with the lead i went over on horse back and hit him and said how do you like it.


Haha, I think I love you.  

I have only ever hit one dog - my ex-boyfriend's lab mix. She was attacking Luke and wouldn't let go. He was just laying there, screaming in pain, while she was biting him. It went on for a good minute - I'll never forget that noise in my life! We sprayed her with water, tried to distract her, etc. Nothing worked. Finally I popped her in the nose. Well, I guess slapped would be a more accurate term. Anyway, at that time, I didn't care. She was hurting my baby and was seriously a crazed animal. Furthermore, it was TOTALLY unprovoked, so that made it even worse to me. I still feel bad about it to this day, but only to a certain point. I had to protect Luke since he wasn't protecting himself. I hope you don't all think I'm horrible. I just would have felt like a complete hypocrite if I had written about how horrible I think it is to hit dogs, knowing that this happened a few years ago and not saying anything about it.

And, by the way, I DO think it's horrible. Totally uncalled for. The woman that you saw should have been horse whipped. She doesn't deserve that sweet pup that she has!


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## cmichele (Jan 16, 2009)

That is just sick. Some people don't deserve animals.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

I feel so sorry for that woman's poor dog. Thank you for intervening. I would love to give someone like that a taste of her own medicine.


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## marleysmummy (Jul 11, 2008)

maggie1951 said:


> I would never hit Daisy or Charlie there is just no need for it.
> 
> I once hit a man with a riding whip i was out riding and he was hitting his dog with the lead i went over on horse back and hit him and said how do you like it.


Well done you! Although the image of you doing that is making me laugh!


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## marleysmummy (Jul 11, 2008)

Blaireli said:


> I have only ever hit one dog - my ex-boyfriend's lab mix. She was attacking Luke and wouldn't let go. He was just laying there, screaming in pain, while she was biting him. It went on for a good minute - I'll never forget that noise in my life! We sprayed her with water, tried to distract her, etc. Nothing worked. Finally I popped her in the nose. Well, I guess slapped would be a more accurate term. Anyway, at that time, I didn't care. She was hurting my baby and was seriously a crazed animal. Furthermore, it was TOTALLY unprovoked, so that made it even worse to me. I still feel bad about it to this day, but only to a certain point. I had to protect Luke since he wasn't protecting himself. I hope you don't all think I'm horrible. I just would have felt like a complete hypocrite if I had written about how horrible I think it is to hit dogs, knowing that this happened a few years ago and not saying anything about it.
> 
> And, by the way, I DO think it's horrible. Totally uncalled for. The woman that you saw should have been horse whipped. She doesn't deserve that sweet pup that she has!


Blair, I don't think you're horrible, I know from reading your posts how much you love your dogs, I think I may have done the same if it had been Marley. The sad part of my story is that it was the dogs owner who was the crazed animal and not the dog, the woman is a maniac. I hope I don't see her again any time soon!


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## dannyra (Aug 5, 2008)

I'm really not trying to defend the person. As I would of launched into them too. But if she was a first generation american, possibly coming from Mexico. Dogs are treated much differently there. That quite honestly could of been how she learned to deal with dogs.


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## marleysmummy (Jul 11, 2008)

dannyra said:


> I'm really not trying to defend the person. As I would of launched into them too. But if she was a first generation american, possibly coming from Mexico. Dogs are treated much differently there. That quite honestly could of been how she learned to deal with dogs.


I totally understand what you mean, here in Argentina dogs are treated very differently to how me and the people on this forum treat our dogs.

I had Marley for 3 days when he got very ill, the vet ended up taking him into the vet for 24 hour care (he stayed in the vets home every night) and was on IV fluids and all different types of meds for 2 weeks, some of them very expensive. My vet told me that any other owner and/or vet in this country would have had Marley put to sleep as his treatment cost 3 times more than replacing the dog. He said 'in this country, dogs are not a family member, they are easily disposed of and replaced, the people don't have a bond with them'. I thought this was very sad.


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## Blaireli (Jun 3, 2008)

Malissa, I'm SO GLAD you took the time and the effort to get Marley through his illness right after you brought him home. You're a great owner, and Marley is so lucky to have you.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I think I would have lost it and hit her up side her head and asked how did she like it. Probably would have been arrested but at least she knew how it felt and might think twice the next time. And maybe the police would have contacted animal control to take the dog away from her. And then found a home where he would be loved and not hit.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

This makes me sick reading it. That woman obviously does not deserve to have a dog. That poor dear golden. Good for you for telling her off!


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## JohnTIZ (Jan 9, 2009)

It would probably sicken us all if we knew just how many abused/neglected dogs there are out there.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

I'm glad you and your fiance _got her attention_. Sometimes scorn and disapproval from someone else can make all the difference. It sounds to me like she just doesn't have any self control and was venting out on her dog.


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## riddle03 (Jun 9, 2005)

I probably would have been arrested for stepping in.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

The ONLY time I would ever hit a dog is if it was trying to injure/mame MY dog.

Other than that, the worst I find even remotely acceptable is a gentle tap on the nose with a single finger.

Goldens never, EVER forget anything, especially being hit.


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## MillysMom (Nov 5, 2008)

I hit a dog once. It was in the same way Blair did. A baby horse (weanling) was cast in the stall, and the farm's pittbull went in the stall and started attacking the horse. The horse couldn't get up, the dog would not stop. We sprayed it with water, but there wasn't much we could do to get the dog off without risking startling the horse and the horse breaking a leg. It was the most horrible sound I've ever heard--the horse literally screaming in pain (I've seen some horrible horse injuries, but never heard a horse make these noises). We tried pulling the pitt off the horse, nothing worked, finally I smacked him on the nose, and just closed my eyes hoping the dog wouldn't come after me. 

The poor little horse nearly lost it's ear (it literally was hanging on by less than a quarter of an inch) and needed to be sewn back on. I didn't used to believe the saying, "once a dog gets the taste of blood it remembers it," but now I do. That pitt went from being the sweetest dog to regularly going after the horses, dogs, cats, etc. after that incident. Eventually the farm owners put him to sleep for fear of him attacking a child. 

Other than that one time, I have never intentionally hit a dog. I did accidentally kick Milly in the jaw while practicing a dance routine and not knowing she was in the studio, but other than that, I've never physically hit or kicked a dog.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I have popped a butt for drinking out of the toilet or sniffing the cat box (when I had cats), or a muzzle on a dog I KNOW won't be upset by it for nipping or stealing food off my plate or something. The butt pops are sneak approaches, and it's the "HOLY CRAP" factor that makes it effective- they don't expect it or even IMO know it was me... they JUMP and are startled and usually they never do it again. 

For what that dog was doing, I would walk him with the collar up under his neck so he couldn't eat anything off the ground (duh?) and train him "leave it" to stop it long term. 

I don't agree with hitting kids either... and am somewhat puzzled to see people who condone spanking children think popping a dog lightly is terrible. 

There is, however, absolutely a difference between hitting and a light pop or smack on the butt to get the dog's attention. Same with kids, IMO.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

dannyra said:


> I'm really not trying to defend the person. As I would of launched into them too. But if she was a first generation american, possibly coming from Mexico. Dogs are treated much differently there. That quite honestly could of been how she learned to deal with dogs.


Exactly. Some people do what they do b/c they just don't know any different. I've always said that if I were ever to encounter a situation like that, I hope I'd have the wherewithall to walk over and politely ask, 'May I try something?' and see if I could get my hands on the dog just for a nano second and let the owner see a different method in action. I've never encountered that situation - other than once in a class setting - where the woman was so enraged, I just had to ask her to leave class.

It would be hard to control my desire to yell at someone who was hitting their dog, but like I said, I hope I could and would be able to demonstrate something different.


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## Pudden (Dec 28, 2008)

I could never beat an animal.

Long ago, I mushed some teams for a musher who thought the only acceptable form of doggie physical punishment was to bite their ear (!) if they did something very very naughty, like starting a fight in the team or chewing up the gangline.

However, I could never do it. There I would sit in the snow among the team with someone's furry ear in my mouth, gumming down gently. The one being gummed would be all wiggly and delighted for the attention, and the others would look at me as if to say, "Can I be next?"


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I popped Danny on the butt this morning! The little sneak thinks that if he's not looking at you, he doesn't have to listen to you. Usually it's when he gets in my husband's chair and I can get him to listen to me. This morning it was our bed. He was all snuggled in on my pillows and I told him it was time to get down. He proceeded to stare at the back of my husband's head (my husband was still asleep). I told him to get down a couple of times and finally give him a little pop on the butt. That made him look at me. Then he breathed a big sigh of disappointment and got down off the bed.

But no, I do not believe in hitting a dog as a punishment or in an abusive manner. That woman sounds horrible!


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## Shelby91 (Nov 25, 2008)

I could never hit my dog. I was walking my dogs and saw my neighbor outside with a cute little puppy and I asked her about him. The puppy started barking and she hit him! It wasn't hard, but she still hit him. I gave her this disgusted look and walked away (Its the same lady who always lets her cat pee in our bushes). I later found out that the dog ran away. I wonder why. But they found him and he looks really skinny. I'm about to say something about it.
But anyway, I could never hit my dogs. Ever. If they get into a fight, I squirt them with a water bottle and that breaks it up right away.


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## PeanutsMom (Oct 14, 2007)

If a dog attacked my dogs or kids I'd do whatever it took. In general, no I don't think it's ok to beat animals.


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## Rican219 (Jan 22, 2009)

He should have put the leash on her and hit her with it


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

To be honest, I've tapped Diesel before. Now, I've never STRUCK him but I've tapped his nose. Mostly for jumping on kids or for getting rough with Kerosene just because he can. I've never hurt him, maybe his feelings. I can't stand when people hit their dogs with the intention to hurt and/or scare them. My dogs love me and I strive to make sure of that. Do you think for one second if you hit and scream that they think you love them? Ive noticed Goldens strive to please. My two want my love no matter what and I almost bet that even if I did hit/scream that they would still try to get my love. Its not fair and its not right to take advantage of their wonderful personalities. Ugghhh Im sick to my stomach


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## AmbersDad (Dec 25, 2007)

I certainly do not agree with smacking or striking a dog unless of course it's in mid-attack of me or my dog. I do have to say though that in years past it was common place for this sort of "correction" to be metted out in this fashion. I think in part it's for three reasons. The first being year ago the dog was not looked at as part of the family, it was looked at as a "pet", equivilant to a cow, something that was kept outside. The second reason being, they viewed the animal as being unable to understand anything other then being smacked as a form of correction. (basically not knowing any better or how to properly train the dog). The third reason being, I think less was generally known about how to train and correct dogs in general. Over the years there has been a mass turn around in this country whereas dogs have become an animal that not only now fully lives inside the house with us butit a big part of our family. Heck, we have entire SHOW dedicated to dealing with dogs and owners! Something years ago would never have been able to make it to network tv. I think our overall view of dogs in general has made a big change and we have begun to think of them more as our "furry children". I don't believe this is a bad thing as long as we know how to effectively deal with the dog as a "DOG" and not believe it actually is a human child. I say this simply for behavioral issues that arise when the later happens. 

I know speaking to my grandfather who trained hunting dogs for years to hunt with him in almost every state in the us that the dogs were kept in kennels outside, never came inside the house, were trained using physiucal force, and were smacked if they did something "wrong". He attemtped to "teach" me how to train Amber when I first got her at 2 months old, until I politely explained to him that things have changed and we now understand the psyche and behavior of the dog much more then we used to and there are better ways to deal with problems and training. 
So when you combine some of those old ideas on training methodology along with frustration coming from the dog not responding well to that kind of training, along side of someone who is uneducated about handling dogs in general, you end up with a situation as the op described. 
Anyone whos ever had exended contact with the PA Amish can still observe those old mothods at work still. They view dogs as livestock and find it hard to famish that the rest of us allow them to be part of the family. They see them as hacving a job to do as an animal and handle them in the same manner they handle an ox or cow.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

I would only hit (as in hard hit) if it was needed to prevent something far more serious from happening such as preventing my dogs or other dogs from being attacked or to prevent people from being attacked and only if I could do nothing else to stop it.-definitely a last resort.


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## tannernoodle (Mar 19, 2008)

Tucker's gotten a few cracks on the behind for getting busted chewing my stuff but nothing hard. I think he thinks it's funny cus his tail is usually wagging.


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## PeanutsMom (Oct 14, 2007)

tannernoodle said:


> Tucker's gotten a few cracks on the behind for getting busted chewing my stuff but nothing hard. *I think he thinks it's funny cus his tail is usually wagging.*


Yeah, I'm pretty sure if I swatted Peanuts butt he'd just swing it at me to do it again. He's shameless about booty scratches.


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## Fidele (Sep 17, 2008)

I think that possibly Cedar was hit around his head a good bit as a pup - probably under the guise of "training." He squints a little anytime I pet his head, and when my hubby pets him he squints & slightly flinches, but is getting better. (yes - his previous owner was male - think that's why he reacts more to hubby - whom he really loves)


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## KRayl (Aug 22, 2008)

I would never, ever have it in me to hit my pup. Never. :no: She'd be absolutely heart broken....and so would I. 

If there were a situation where she was threatened or if myself or my husband were threated, I probably wouldn't hesitate to hit another dog. At that point, it's self-defense. I would never use hitting as a method to correct behavior - only to protect.


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## Bogey1455 (Dec 15, 2008)

I used to spank (not hard) Bogey on the butt or tap him on the nose and say "NO" when he was doing something he was not supposed to (i.e. pooping/peeing inside, chewing on someone's shoes/clothes etc.)...but it was certainly not with intentions of hurting him. It was mainly just to reinforce the word, NO.

Now, he associates the word NO very meaningfully. He knows that when I say no, I mean no. And now I don't even have to touch him...if I say it, he immediately stops what he's doing and goes on to something else.

Again, not to hurt him, just to let him know that he's not allowed to do that (whatever that may be).


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## alanckaye (Feb 7, 2009)

Thanks for taking up for that poor dog. Nothing angers me more than mistreating animals or children (both helpless) and I will not hesitate to jump in some s*** if I see it. Having said that, when my girls were about six months old, a lady I have known for about 20 years stopped by to see them. She said she has had several goldens and tried to give me some advice. She made a rolled up paper wrapped with duct tape. She said when they do something you disapprove of, tap them on the head. After that there were some times that I had just been up to my neck with their behavior so in an angered state I (I'm ashamed to say it) wacked them on the head. Afterward I felt so bad - I just kept seeing their sweet faces and their eyes when I did that - I threw the paper away. I still have guilt feelings all this time later. I try and make up for that by showering them with hugs and love....and treats. Even though it was not hard enough to hurt them, it hurt me and did not feel right. It was like my father use to tell me "this is going to hurt me worse than you" when he spanked us. I find now that repatition (sp) is the key and any kind of slapping or hitting is unacceptable. Golden retrievers are without a doubt in my mind the sweetest most loving dogs and I will never do that again, nor will I let it happen to another animal in my presence. Someone better be ready for a 60 year old fart jumping in their s*** if they are mistreating an animal in my presence. Sorry, I digress.


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## 3kidsandagoldenpuppy (Aug 16, 2008)

OMG that is HORRIBLE! Poor dog And you know she will do it again. Too bad the dog doesn't just snap and bite her back. Sorry, I am NOT for animal cruelty.


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