# Need an English background companion



## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

The "100% English" claim is often used by breeders here to try to indicate that the dog does not have any American lines in its pedigree. However, it's a silly claim, because the only way a golden would truly be considered 100% English is if all the dogs in the pedigree were from breeders actually located in England. Most of the breeders who use this term have dogs with pedigrees that combine lines from all over Europe, and sometimes Canada or Australia as well. I was just looking at a website today describing a dog as 100% English, but she was actually bred in the U.S., from parents who were imported from Poland and Russia! I'm pretty picky about breeders using false claims or terms to describe their dogs, so I would steer clear of anyone who uses this descriptor.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

The reason your confused is there is no such thing as a English golden retriever. They are all golden retrievers. Is there a reason you want a English one. Is it the light color. If it is the light color lots of breeders will have light Golden. Our pup Chloe is a blonde. Her dad is what you would call English. He is all white. Her mom was typical gold color.


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

I don't know many breeders in your area, but hopefully someone on here closer to you will have some insight, but here is a list of a few English-background golden breeders I'd recommend:

Tanglewood Goldens -- Golden Retrievers of English Distinction
Welcome - Eastshore Golden Retrievers at Fieldstone Farm
Star Crowned Golden Retrievers
http://www.dreamkeepergoldens.com
English Golden Retriever Puppies - Talini Golden Retrievers - Tucson, AZ


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

Thank you for your responses. Anybody heard about any of the breeders in my list?

@HaliaGoldens - Have you got puppies or has anyone got puppies from any from my list? Or, from your list?

There are 1 or 2 breeders common in both lists - Tanglewood and Star.

Also, thank you for the advice on 100% English goldens. I am actually not looking for 100% english or anything. I think I like the ligher shade and also the stockier build and bigger head that I have found in the UK/European type goldens. So I don't mind if it's 100% England or has lines from other European countries.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@Cpc1972 - Thank you for the response. I am looking for an English type golden not just for the light colour but also for the slightly stockier build it has and bigger head compared the North American goldens. I may be completely wrong about this but this has been my understanding based on what I've seen and read so far.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

You may want to check out an AKC show. Many folks really don't know what an American Show style golden looks like. In many cases they actually carry more bone in the legs and have large heads. It is very common for my purebred American girls get guessed as a boy or a mix because the size on thier heads. There is some visual differance in the American and European style heads, but if you compare show bred to show bred, it is actually not that drastic IMO. 

There is actually a show coming up next weekend that looks close to you. 

Greater DeKalb Kennel Club
Northern Illinois University
Lincoln Hwy and Annie Glidden Rd
De Kalb, IL
Goldens show in ring 3 at 1:30 on staurday the 4th and ring 2 at 10:45 on Sunday the 5th. 
It looks like there will be about 20 Goldens there. There is also a chance based on your location that their May be European or blended pedigree dogs entered. Might be worth a look to see what you think. You might be surprised.

This by the way is an all American girl who just won her first major win a few weekends ago.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

And though she is not the color you are wanting, here is a head shot of my girl Tilt. She has a very pretty American Style head though I would love for her ears to be a bit smaller.


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## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/...bev-brown.html (What Exactly Is An "English" Golden Retriever? by Bev Brown) 

Another forum member (Archiesmum) recently posted this useful link to me.


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## Harleysmum (Aug 19, 2014)

As always LJack you make your point beautifully!


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Harleysmum said:


> As always LJack you make your point beautifully!


Awww, thanks! 
As one is my girl and the other I co-own with my mom, I am kind of biased but I love these girls! :--crazy_love:


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@LJack - Thank you very much for the show information. Is there a Web site where I can find more information about this show and also a site where I can find where these shows are happening? Are they free?


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@LJack - Your girls look superb


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Thanks Prasanna!
I start with https://www.apps.akc.org//apps/events/search/index.cfm
Once you select the competition type (conformation),breed and state(s) you will see each show with dates, locations and the superintendant running the show. About 2 weeks out, you can go to the specific superintendant web site to see the number of Goldens entered and about a week ahead, you will see ring assignment and show times for each breed.

Some people also use Home Page, InfoDog -The Dog Fancier's Complete Resource for informationAKC Dog Show Events, and Dog Products and Services to search and they are also am active superintendant in your part of the country. 
Other superintendants are:
Roy Jones Dog Shows Home Page
Jack Onofrio Dog Shows, LLC | Welcome
Foy Trent Dog Show Superintendent: Licensed AKC Dog Show Superintendent

Most shows are free to walk in the door but the facility they are held at may charge for parking.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

Thank you very much, LJack! Have you heard about any of the breeders in this list?

English Goldens in North America - Breeders

Or, do you recommend any breeders for English/European type not in this list?


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

prasanna1157 said:


> Thank you for your responses. Anybody heard about any of the breeders in my list?
> 
> @HaliaGoldens - Have you got puppies or has anyone got puppies from any from my list? Or, from your list?
> 
> ...


Hi there,
I haven't gotten puppies from the people on the list, since I have gone to Europe to get my dogs directly from breeders over there. But I am friends with several of them, have been to shows together, and have met their dogs and/or puppies over the years. I personally know the creator of the English backgrounds website (Karen Webb- Star Crowned Goldens), and the guidelines for being on there are great and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend those breeders. A few of the breeders on the list are members on this forum, but I'm not sure how often they post or log in.


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

And I agree with LJack, that show goldens (whether they are American or European bred, or a combination) generally have more bone, a wider head, and more coat than most pet goldens you'll see. There are multiple styles of American-bred goldens, and the same goes for European-bred dogs. The important thing is to find a breeder who you trust, who is active with their dogs, and who knows what qualities they want to breed for. Be honest about what you're looking for, and hopefully you'll find someone who is a good match for you.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@HaliaGoldens - Do you mean the breeders on this site? - Links

This list? :
Breeder Links:

Beaumaris (Colorado, USA)

Colbar (England)

Euraidd (Australia)

Mystic (Texas, USA)

Smithaven (California, USA)

Trowsnest (New Hampshire, USA)

Xanthos (England)


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

Yes, those are reputable breeders that I would recommend. Of course, make sure clearances are in order, but those are all established, respected breeders who have a clear point of view about why they are breeding, and what you can expect with one of their puppies.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

Thank you! I read somewhere on this forum about Doolin, a member here who breeds English type goldens. Can someone point me to his Web site, if he has one or tell me how I could get in touch with him?


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@Halia - Thank you again. So the breeders in that list and in genereal reputable English-type breeders would ensure that the lines remain English or European and not breed their dogs to North American goldens? I am just trying to understand how things work. 

Sorry for asking a lot of questions. I am here for an English-type golden and looking to get one as soon as I can but I want to understand a bit more about the breed and the breeders, especially after reading through many of the posts on this forum.


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

It is all one breed, whether the dogs are from European lines or American ones. Many reputable breeders combine lines from Europe and America, to bring out certain qualities or bring diversity into their breeding programs.


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

Some of the best puppies I've produced came out of combinations between English and American lines.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

prasanna1157 said:


> Thank you! I read somewhere on this forum about Doolin, a member here who breeds English type goldens. Can someone point me to his Web site, if he has one or tell me how I could get in touch with him?


Mac is not breeding at this time. He has a lovely English style girl from Phil Trevino in California, who is still just a baby.

I do own 2 girls from Mac, half sisters. One is all North American and has been bred to the boy in my avatar, a North American boy. The other girl was sired by Sydney, an Australian import, and an North American girl who goes back to my stuff. I hope to breed her to a North American boy for her first litter, and then to a European import, Nicolaas, owned by Wendy Bergeron, for her second litter.

If you are looking for a nice head and a lighter color, you might want to see who has bred to this very light North American boy, Patton. I bred to him and loved what I got, which included very light colored puppies, although that was not my purpose in breeding to him.

Pedigree: GCH CH Splendid Chatham Stars And Bars


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## NYresq (Jun 29, 2015)

To the OP, my wife and I just picked up our golden puppy last week. He is bred from parents who come from european lines. After researching here and overseas, it seems one of the claims to the european lines is a lower rate of cancer. The parents of our pup were both dna tested and documented to NOT carry the lymphoma gene. Apparently, this is one of the most common types of cancer in goldens.

I am not affiliated with the breeder in any way, we traveled from Long Island to the far western edge of PA to get our puppy. 

If you are interested, you can google "snow water retrievers" and go to their website. They keep their website up to,date, which it seems most of the ones on the link you poseted go to outdated or dead websites. 

Its a family run kennel, located on the property next to their house. The owners children all play with the dogs and puppies. The dogs are all family members. One of the other sires went to work with one of the women the day we picked up our puppy. They frequently take one or more of the adults with them when they go out. 

Hope this helps


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

I would follow-up with asking why 100% English is important to you? If it is the color and look, I understand that, we all have our preferences. 

If it is not the looks, I would caution you that there is a lot of incorrect information out there about health and temperment by people who are "marketing" white dogs. 

Europen bred Goldens get Cancer, they have health issues and some have temperment issues. The exact same can be said for American Goldens or really any Golden. Finding a good breeder is the critical component to finding a puppy with the best chance for a long healthy life regardless of where they were bred.

I highly recomend this article from the Golden Retriever Club of Canada. English Cream Golden Retrievers | Golden Retriever Club of Canada


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

It was my understanding the dna test for lymphoma susceptibility has a WAY high false negative rate and that up to 25% of dogs who actually have lymphoma will test negative for the gene.
It may be an early start but I would never rely on a test so inaccurate to tell me anything.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

NYresq said:


> The parents of our pup were both dna tested and documented to NOT carry the lymphoma gene. Apparently, this is one of the most common types of cancer in goldens.


If you are comfortable sharing, I would love to here more about this test as I am unaware of any reliable Cancer test currently in existence. I know that the Morris foundation's study is aimed at making head way for many Cancers. Sadly the first dog in this very young study to die of cancer was a very young full European pedigree dog. Very sad for the study, his owners and all Golden lovers.

I truly wish it was a simple as a DNA retest but the many DNA testing companies I know and use only offer PRAs, DM, Ichthosis and a few other reseccive traits. 

My understanding is Cancer is much more complex than those tests. But, I would love to learn more.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

NYresq said:


> To the OP, my wife and I just picked up our golden puppy last week. He is bred from parents who come from european lines. After researching here and overseas, it seems one of the claims to the european lines is a lower rate of cancer. The parents of our pup were both dna tested and documented to NOT carry the lymphoma gene. Apparently, this is one of the most common types of cancer in goldens.
> 
> I am not affiliated with the breeder in any way, we traveled from Long Island to the far western edge of PA to get our puppy.
> 
> ...


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

> #2 The English Golden does NOT carry the Lymphoma Cancer Gene that has plagued Golden Retrievers for years.


This claim from their website is enough to set off warning bells.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@LJack - Thank you for following up. To answer your question in short, I am looking for English only for colour and looks.

Having said that, I don't mind if it's Australian or European or from England itself. I only keep referring to it as English for lack for a better term and to differentiate the look (at least what I have in mind) of an English/European golden to a North American golden - slightly more rounded and stockier. 

When I first come across this site last week, I was under the wrong impression that English meant white colour. But now I think I have a decent understanding about English vs American. I understand that the English/European goldens are in no way superior and no healthier than the American ones and that a golden is a golden, regardless.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@HaliaGoldens and @LJack - Halia, I know this breeder (Darrowby) isn't on the list you gave me nor is this breeder on the Star Crowned list. However, this breeder is listed on this site - English Goldens in North America - Breeders. 

I spoke to Sallie a while ago and she told me that she has a puppy available. Her Web site is currently down, so I am not able to see any pictures, nor have I seen her site before; because I only started looking a couple of days ago. She sounded very genuine to me and said she's been breeding for over 50 years. She asked me a lot of questions as this site suggests good breeders should and said that she helped putting together the site - englishgoldens.net 

The sire is from Scotland and the dam's mother was imported from Australia. I forgot which one but (either the sire or the dam) she mentioned one of them had 0 score on elbows, 1 for hip. 

Though she sounded very very genuine, I didn't want to make up my mind before consulting you people here. Do you know this breeder or have heard about her? Is this something that I should be interested in?


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

I know I don't have all the information from her yet on clearances, health tests etc. but that's because I thought I'd get all those after I get confirmation from someone here that it's OK to go ahead with this breeder.


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

Yes, Sally at Darrowby Goldens is very respected and has some lovely dogs. I don't know her personally, but I know people who do, and I would recommend her breeding program.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

Thank you! She said she recently had a litter - 4 puppies, all male. 3 of them are spoken for already, 1 is available. Now I need some help on what questions I should ask of her. What clearances/health related items that I should ask about?

I am a complete novice and hence not familiar with any of the terminology.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

And what do the numbers mean? She said 0 means perfect (scale of 0 to 59); so 0 on elbows and 1 on hips is really good? What other things should I look for in a puppy?


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

Are there other members here who've either got puppies from her or know her directly or through someone?


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

Yes, zero on elbows means there is no dyplasia present, and a low number on hips is good. There should also be a cardiac clearance, and an eye clearance within the past year. Do you have the pedigree names of the parents? I'll look at her site and try to get more details for you when I get home.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

prasanna1157 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have been looking to buy an English Golden puppy. I have been doing a lot of research so that I end up buying from the right breeder. I have read a lot of posts on this site, and found it very useful. One of the breeders I spoke to was Elaine who owns this site - MN ENGLISH GOLDEN. After reading through several posts on this forum, I have decided to steer clear of this breeder and also found this helpful list.
> 
> ...


Yes, Bella's daddy (Eddie) comes from here: page 1 (Cedar Goldens)

In Wisconsin, and listed on that site. That's how I found them. I couldn't be happier with Bella.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Hopefully the Darrowby pup will work out, but if not, I know a couple of Dreamworks pups and I believe Kate (megora) younger boy is from Dreamworks.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Patton is absolutely stunning in person. I believe his son Mac will also be siring some litters soon.

Have you contacted the Schultzes from Cedar Golden Retrievers in Wisconsin? Eddie is my puppy's grandfather.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@cubbsysan - I have tried to contact them, but it seems Mary is out of town. Tom asked me to call back on Friday.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@HaliaGoldens - I spoke to Sallie now. Here are the puppy's parents' names:

Sire - Garbank Lislone Igotstyle
Dam - Darrowby Canine Gilson

She patiently answered all my questions but a couple of things made me slightly uneasy. In particular, she says the cost of the puppy will be $2,500. I don't mind paying $2,500 but I have read on this forum in a lot of places that the cost should be $1800-$2,000 and that I am not going to get a better puppy for paying more than that range. 

She said she's charging more for this litter because of the parents' pedigree.

Also, she said she's giving the 1st one to a relative, but could charge $3500 if it hadn't been a relative. To be fair, she might have been joking about the $3500 amount but this has made me slightly uneasy about the whole thing. Please advise.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

prasanna1157 said:


> @cubbsysan - I have tried to contact them, but it seems Mary is out of town. Tom asked me to call back on Friday.


If you send an email, she might respond. I still keep in touch with them.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@cubbysan - Sorry I couldn't understand who Patton is? And who is Eddie? Is he in Cedar?


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Posted in error.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@Naib - Thank you. Yes I've already sent an e-mail to them. Hopefully they respond and hopefully they have puppies


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

prasanna1157 said:


> @Naib - Thank you. Yes I've already sent an e-mail to them. Hopefully they respond and hopefully they have puppies


Don't be discouraged if she doesn't get back to you right away. Just call on Friday. It says "Possible Fall Puppies Planned" on their website.


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

prasanna1157 said:


> @HaliaGoldens - I spoke to Sallie now. Here are the puppy's parents' names:
> 
> Sire - Garbank Lislone Igotstyle
> Dam - Darrowby Canine Gilson
> ...


 So here are the parents of the litter: http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=546888
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=348751

Clearance-wise, it looks good to me, and I really do like the pedigree. I think it sounds like a beautiful litter. Regarding the price, it's pretty standard for the breeders on that English background golden website, and others. In certain areas of the country, you'll see some variation in puppy prices based on cost of living etc., but $2500 is what I charge as well. I don't think it's unreasonable for this type of breeding program. Of course, it all comes down to what you're comfortable with. If a backyard breeder who doesn't show their dogs and doesn't put time and money into clearances and researching each combination, etc., $2500 would be way too much. But for a breeder with experience, who is not having frequent litters, and puts so much into each one, I have no problem with that price.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@HaliaGoldens - Thank you very much again.

Thank you. I just spoke to Laura at Tanglewood Goldens and she said she's planning a litter in August.

For that litter, the parents are:

Sire - Crarae Tanglewood EZ4U2NV
Dam - Tanglewood Twin Leaf Pearl of Wisdom

I do see that their hip clearances have higher numbers than Darrowby's but I don't know if they mean anything.

Do you recommend one over the other between Darrowby and Tanglewood? If not, do one of the parents at Darrowby or Tanglewood have better pedigree than the other? Anything else that should make me get the puppy from one place versus the other?


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

Also, has anyone heard about or recommend Snowy Paw Retrievers in Sycamore, IL? Here is the Web site:

Snowy Paw Retrievers, Golden Retrievers, Sycamore, IL

I got to know about Snowy Paw from Laura at Tanglewood. She gave me this when I said I'm from Illinois. I will find out who the parents of this current litter are and post here.


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

prasanna1157 said:


> @HaliaGoldens - Thank you very much again.
> 
> Thank you. I just spoke to Laura at Tanglewood Goldens and she said she's planning a litter in August.
> 
> ...


Both Darrowby and Tanglewood are good breeders; the only concern I'd have with that specific combo from Tanglewood is that the dam has a grade one elbow. Just from a personal preference for what I like pedigree- and conformation-wise in a dog, I prefer the Darrowby litter, but both will be promising litters.


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

prasanna1157 said:


> Also, has anyone heard about or recommend Snowy Paw Retrievers in Sycamore, IL? Here is the Web site:
> 
> Snowy Paw Retrievers, Golden Retrievers, Sycamore, IL
> 
> I got to know about Snowy Paw from Laura at Tanglewood. She gave me this when I said I'm from Illinois. I will find out who the parents of this current litter are and post here.


Snowypaws has some nice dogs, with pedigrees that I know well. My dogs come from very similar lines and I know the breeder of a few of her dogs. Looks like she only has hips and elbows cleared on the mother of her current litter though; no cardiac or eye clearance. I'd ask her about that.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@HaliaGoldens - Thank you. OK, so I'll go with Darrowby then. I am waiting on pictures and more information from Sallie because her Web site is down currently.

Meanwhile, I hope to talk to Tom and Mary of Cedar Goldens by the weekend or early next week. Does anybody know about their current litter?


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@Halia - The Darrowby Web site is up. Here are the links to the parents:

Sire - McCallum
Dam - GILSON

Kindly look at these and share your thoughts on looks/conformance. The mother, Gilson, looks to be shorter than the typical dogs. Is that a problem? Does she still conform to the English Golden standards?

Also, Sallie said this litter produced 4 puppies - all males. Is it normal to have only 4 puppies? Does that mean anything abnormal?


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

prasanna1157 said:


> @Halia - The Darrowby Web site is up. Here are the links to the parents:
> 
> Sire - McCallum
> Dam - GILSON
> ...


I really like this combination. Both parents have lovely type, beautiful heads, and nice angles. The dam doesn't look too short to me. Often, because pet Goldens tend to be much taller than the breed standard, when people see a show golden who is within the breed standard, they are surprised by how compact they appear in comparison. I really like McCallum, and he comes from one of the top breeders in the UK. After seeing him now, I'm considering using him in a couple of years when I breed my young girl. 

Four puppies in a litter isn't a problem. Litter size for Goldens can range from one puppy to in the teens. The fact that this dam is a little older makes her more likely to have a smaller litter as well. My current puppy is from an almost eight-year-old dam as well, and she was one of four in the litter.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@Halia - Thank you very much! I am planning to have my friend who lives in NJ to visit Darrowby in the next couple of weeks. I'll keep posting here as there are developments.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@Halia - One big question I have though is, if I have to relocate to a different country in a few years' time,

1) I'm assuming that I can take him with me.
2) Will he be comfortable with the move?


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

Also, I drive a lot and really like to go on long drives. Do they like to ride in the car? Is this something that can be trained?

I've heard that they generally like the water. Is this true of all Goldens? Do they need to be trained to be swim and be safe in the water or is this something that comes to them naturally?


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I looked one of the breeders listed who take paypal for puppies and charge 2000k to 3000k for untitled parents . It is buyer beware to me- there is no need to price up these pups bc of the color of their coats. It is anyone's right to overpay for a puppy, but the marketing of Cream English whatever works really well to have people paying too much for what is a dog that hasnt been shoulder to shoulder with peers. There ARE some breeders of English style goldens doing it right, so dont go pay by PayPal to one that doesnt do anything with their dogs beyond feeding them and breeding them. A puppy from untilted parents with all health clearances on both sides? 1500 tops. We have seen plenty of English style good dogs now out competing well in AKC- they can do obedience, hunt titles . . .


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@Ljilly28 - Sorry, which breeder and on which list are you talking about?


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

How do I upload an image from my computer? It asks me for a link to the URL when I click "Insert Image"?


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

prasanna1157 said:


> @Halia - One big question I have though is, if I have to relocate to a different country in a few years' time,
> 
> 1) I'm assuming that I can take him with me.
> 2) Will he be comfortable with the move?





prasanna1157 said:


> Also, I drive a lot and really like to go on long drives. Do they like to ride in the car? Is this something that can be trained?
> 
> I've heard that they generally like the water. Is this true of all Goldens? Do they need to be trained to be swim and be safe in the water or is this something that comes to them naturally?


Taking a dog with you if you relocate to another country will depend on the specific country, and what rules and regulations they have regarding quarantine, rabies, etc. Dogs usually adjust well to a move; as long as they're with the people they are bonded to, and have plenty of exercise, space, etc. they will be happy wherever you are. Most goldens like to go places in the car. Mine happily jump into the car, because they like a change of scenery, and most of the time, a car ride means they are going to the park, for a hike, to the beach, etc. Start out with short rides to get the puppy used to the movement of the car and to make sure he doesn't get carsick, and he will probably take to it happily. The breeder has probably taken him for a few car rides already, so it's something to ask her about too. Most goldens enjoy the water, but there are no guarantees that every one will love to swim. Teaching them gradually to enjoy the water and come swimming with you is important if they are hesitant at first. Don't drag or throw them into the water, but let them discover it on their own. I would ask the breeder if the parents of the litter like to swim. If they are both enthusiastic swimmers, chances are the puppy will be as well.


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

prasanna1157 said:


> How do I upload an image from my computer? It asks me for a link to the URL when I click "Insert Image"?


To add photos, you need a photobucket account. Once you upload them to that site from your computer, you can copy the link and paste them into the "insert image" box that pops up on this forum.


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

Ljilly28 said:


> I looked one of the breeders listed who take paypal for puppies and charge 2000k to 3000k for untitled parents . It is buyer beware to me- there is no need to price up these pups bc of the color of their coats. It is anyone's right to overpay for a puppy, but the marketing of Cream English whatever works really well to have people paying too much for what is a dog that hasnt been shoulder to shoulder with peers. There ARE some breeders of English style goldens doing it right, so dont go pay by PayPal to one that doesnt do anything with their dogs beyond feeding them and breeding them. A puppy from untilted parents with all health clearances on both sides? 1500 tops. We have seen plenty of English style good dogs now out competing well in AKC- they can do obedience, hunt titles . . .


I'm not sure which breeder you're referring to, but I did not recommend anyone who uses paypal or who markets their dogs as "Cream English" anything. The ones I listed and said are reputable are those few breeders of English-background dogs who actually ARE doing it right, and competing with their dogs in some venue. It's a challenge, but I do my own grooming, handling, and training with my dogs and show them in AKC events. I know that I have a lot of improving to do on my end with handling, etc, but I enjoy working and learning together with my dogs. And I know that the light color is the least of my worries when it comes to challenges I face trying to title my dog on my own.

Looking back through the breeders mentioned in this thread, I do see now that Snowy Paws has a paypal link on their site, but they're not one of the ones I recommended the OP buy from. I looked at the site, told her I'm very familiar with those lines, and cautioned her about the lack of clearances. Anyway, I know that I'm no expert, but I hope I've been helpful to anyone who is genuinely interested in this style of goldens, but who needs some guidance about where to start.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

You can also use tinypic.com to get a URL to post a photo. Just upload the photo and copy the URL they give you.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

Will Google drive work?


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

prasanna1157 said:


> How do I upload an image from my computer? It asks me for a link to the URL when I click "Insert Image"?


Click on post reply, then Click on the Paperclip icon at the top in the menu bar, that will open a pop up where you can choose a file off your computer and then click Upload.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

http://s280.photobucket.com/user/prasanna1157/library/


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@Halia - Thank you. I managed to get a PhotoBucket account and upload the photos. Please take a look.

Could someone kindly check and see if the link is working for them?


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

They look cute!


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

I work 8 hours a day and I'll probably be out at least 9 hours with the commute. I can have my neighbour or a friend walk my puppy once or twice while I'm out but that's it.

What do I do with him when I'm working? Is he just free to roam about? I don't know the basics of puppy training or care. I haven't confirmed getting the puppy but I want to make sure I can take proper care of him before bringing him home.

I looked up some day care options in my area and they seem to be pretty expensive.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@Halia - As for McCallum, I see that he just turned 2 recently in April, and the puppies were born in June. That possibly means he was bred before he turned 2 and had his clearances? Is that a problem? I ask because I've been reading that a Golden is to be bred only after it turns 2 because it takes time for them to mature.


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

prasanna1157 said:


> @Halia - As for McCallum, I see that he just turned 2 recently in April, and the puppies were born in June. That possibly means he was bred before he turned 2 and had his clearances? Is that a problem? I ask because I've been reading that a Golden is to be bred only after it turns 2 because it takes time for them to mature.


They got his hips scored first with the BVA, which is the British system. With BVA, they give final hip scores any time after 12 months of age. The mating would have taken place right around his second birthday, so it's nice that they had him cleared with BVA first to be sure. They also had his final clearances from OFA done at 24 months, so they probably did it just before or right around the time of breeding. My guess is they did it this way because the bitch is over 7 years old, and this is likely her last breeding. Instead of just cutting corners and breeding him on OFA prelims, they made sure he was cleared through the BVA first, and got his final OFA clearances as soon as he was old enough. This is not a problem for me, but of course you should ask the breeder about it as well if it raises any concerns for you.


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

prasanna1157 said:


> I work 8 hours a day and I'll probably be out at least 9 hours with the commute. I can have my neighbour or a friend walk my puppy once or twice while I'm out but that's it.
> 
> What do I do with him when I'm working? Is he just free to roam about? I don't know the basics of puppy training or care. I haven't confirmed getting the puppy but I want to make sure I can take proper care of him before bringing him home.
> 
> I looked up some day care options in my area and they seem to be pretty expensive.


Raising a puppy (especially the first year) is a lot like having a small child. They need potty training, obedience work, socialization, play time, and lots of attention. If you are out of the home 9 hours a day, 5 days a week, without anyone to be home with the puppy for more time than a walk once or twice a day, my suggestion would be a re-evaluate getting a puppy at this time. An adult dog who is already house trained and doesn't need as many hours of your time each day might be a better fit for you right now. Of course, raising a puppy is not impossible when you work out of the home all day, but it's extremely challenging if you don't have family members in your home or close by who can puppy sit on a daily basis. I work full time as well, so I understand the struggle, but I set up my schedule so that I was home for the first week after my puppy came home, and then I had my boyfriend involved in the training from the start so that he would be there with her and keep everything consistent when I'm not home. Plus, I'm a nurse and I work nights, so most of the puppy sitting ended up just being when she was sleeping in her crate. Then I would be home for her waking hours and just deprive myself of sleep so that I was spending a lot of time with her during the day. :doh:


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

HaliaGoldens said:


> Raising a puppy (especially the first year) is a lot like having a small child.


And it's really more like 2 years depending on the dog. With a full time work schedule like that you will really need to devote every waking hour that you're not at work, sleeping or eating to training and exercising your puppy. The only way you will have 30 minutes to lay on the couch and watch t.v. is to crate him. You will wonder what you ever did with all your free time. If he doesn't receive adequate daily training and aerobic exercise (this is not leash walking) you will have a dog with behavior issues. 

It can be done, but you will need to be 100% committed to doing this the right way.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@Halia and nolefan - Thank you! I'm hoping to have my parents here with me when he's a puppy. In any case, I am really committed and will make sure to spend most of my free time with him


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@Halia - I came across this breeder. Do you know her or heard about them? Would you kindly check the pedigree and tell me what you think? She said she just had a litter. All her puppies are of English (mostly from England) lines. Here are pictures of the puppy, the sire and the dam:

Golden by prasanna1157 | Photobucket

Sire: Pedigree: Mne.JCh. Ser.JCh. Golden Romance Dutch Storm
Dam: Pedigree: Ser.Ch. Bg.Ch. Cinderella of the Hellacious Acres Ser.JCh. Gr.JCh. Bg.JCh. Mol.JCh.


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

prasanna1157 said:


> @Halia - I came across this breeder in Serbia. Do you know her or heard about her? Would you kindly check the pedigree and tell me what you think? She said she just had a litter. All her puppies are of English (mostly from England) lines. It seems she started with a bitch from Garbank and Lislone. Here are pictures of the puppy, the sire and the dam:
> 
> Golden by prasanna1157 | Photobucket
> 
> ...


Very nice pedigree, but the parents are awfully young...the sire just turned one a couple of weeks ago, which means that he had no clearances prior to mating. I don't see a reason to breed a dog that young with no clearances, other than maybe lack of experience, eagerness, or wanting/needing money from puppy sales. Those aren't qualities I'd be looking for in a breeder, so I'd pass on this litter.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

I'm still looking for the perfect puppy and I'd like people's opinions on these litters:

1) Sire: Pedigree: Montego See Me and Remember
Dam: Darrowby

2) Sire: Pedigree: Evidog Masterpiece
Dam: Pedigree: Perfect Peace The Greatest is Love
Puppies: Perfect Peace Nursery
I do see that both parents carry Ichthyosis. Is this a concern?

3) Sire: Pedigree: Perfect Peace Grant Me Courage
Dam: Pedigree: Desdia's Mamma Mia

Thank you very much.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

If both parents are carriers, some of the puppies will be affected. They might have just a little dandruff, or they may have open sores, or they may go from one to the other. I've seen puppies who drop a cup a day of skin flakes.... and affected dogs who seem perfectly normal save a few flakes. I didn't look at your links but I cannot think of a reason a breeder would breed two carriers deliberately so I would skip that one, assuming they are either not bright enough to understand elementary genetics or are too into convenience and breeding to a dog who's just right there.

edit... now I have been to the site. I'd skip it. There are several other sites (ripoff report and http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/perfect-peace-golden-retrievers-c473896.html) that have complaints about them and I firmly believe where there is smoke there is a possibility of fire.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Assuming this is the dam of the first litter, I don't see an elbow clearance

Pedigree: Darrowby's Furry Snow Flurry

This would really concern me. Since they did her hips, and since they own her mother who has her elbow clearance, I have to assume she did not pass elbows. It's a risk.

I noticed out of date eye clearances in some cases (more than about 12 months old). In those cases, ask for copies of the more recent clearances, as they should have them.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@Tahnee GR - Thank you. How do I understand these clearances? I don't know what to look for! Which ones are to be done annually and which ones just once?

What is CERF? I see this as one of the tests. And for eyes, I see that Flurry was tested on Feb 20, 2015. Am I looking at it right? How do you say it's more than 12 months old?


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@Prism Goldens - Thank you. As for the rip off report complaints, I did find Perfect Peace on the englishgoldens.net site and in general there seem to be an opinion that this breeder is highly reputable. I did read the complaint myself but also read the responses and felt comfortable enough. Are there other reasons for why you feel that I should stay away from this breeder?


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Yes, you are correct-Flurry does have a 2015 eye clearance from OFA. Some of the dogs you listed had older eye clearances listed. In those cases, I always ask for the hard copy, since not everyone sends them in annually (although we should). CERF is the old eye test.

Eyes are the only one that needs to be done annually. Hips and elbows are done once, after 24 months. Cardiac is done once, after 12 months.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@Tahnee GR - When you say annually, I rarely see annual tests methodically done in any of the K9 data links. Even though it is supposed to be annual, do breeders do it only just before they breed their dogs?(possibly?) especially in case of bitches since they're not bred every year? And if so, is this OK?


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

No, not okay. Eye tests are to be done every twelve months (with a reasonable of give around that annual date). If they are being bred, an updated annual eye clearance must be done. A lot of breeders do not always send in the documentation, since the form from the eye vet is the clearance itself. OFA is simply the repository for the information.

If there is not an updated eye clearance at offa.org, you should request a copy from the breeder, as he or she probably has the hard copy.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@Tahnee GR - Thank you. Just curious, why is it that it has to be done annually even if you're not breeding that dog at this time? Does it even have to do with breeding?

Can there be instances where you pass before this breeding but would have failed last year?


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

This is in reference to this litter:

Sire: http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=446055
Dam: http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=345510

If some of the puppies will be affected if a carrier is bred to a carrier, can I then have my puppy tested before buying him? I read somewhere that 25% of the puppies will be affected and 50% will be carriers.


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## BlazenGR (Jan 12, 2012)

When breeding carrier to carrier, each puppy has a 25% risk of being affected. Although we tend to say that 25% of the puppies _might_ be affected, it is more accurate to say that each puppy has a 25% of being affected or clear, and a 50% chance of being a carrier. 

Lesley


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@BlazenGR - Thank you! Right, so in that case is it possible to test the puppies and then decide whether or not to buy? Is it something that the breeders usually do? How early can the puppies be tested? Is this a viable option or should I just pass on this litter?


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## BlazenGR (Jan 12, 2012)

For me, it would be a pass. I know a lot of people keep saying that most affected dogs aren't that bad. Maybe for someone who understands exactly what they are getting into (and I mean a conformation or performance person), but for a companion home, it can be devastating. If you have a dog that needs extra supplements, grooming, etc to keep it under control, I don't feel that is fair to ask a companion home to accept that risk, especially for the price that puppies are being sold for today. Unless they test the puppies right after birth (and yes, it can be done via cheek swab), they may not get the results back before the pups would go home. Then you are playing roulette. With the plethora of clear males out there, I see no reason to breed affected to affected except to make excuses (most ich cases aren't that bad) and to make money off of companion homes who don't completely know what they are buying into.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

@BlazenGR - Thank you. This is actually not affected to affected breeding, it's carrier to carrier but still I get your point.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

Here is another litter I'm interested in:

Sire: Pedigree: Int.Jun.Ch, USA.Jun.Ch Hemingway From Mariannehouse CCA
Dam: Pedigree: Feli Fey First Love

I know that the sire doesn't have a recent eye clearance and the dam doesn't have eyes and heart. I asked the breeder about this and they said they just haven't uploaded it and that they can e-mail me the results.

I'd like to know members' opinion on this litter and if they'd recommend buying from this breeder.


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## BlazenGR (Jan 12, 2012)

prasanna1157 said:


> @BlazenGR - Thank you. This is actually not affected to affected breeding, it's carrier to carrier but still I get your point.


It is a point that a lot of people overlook. In theory, you could breed a carrier x carrier litter, and every puppy _could_ end up affected. 

Lesley


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## BlazenGR (Jan 12, 2012)

prasanna1157 said:


> Here is another litter I'm interested in:
> 
> Sire: Pedigree: Int.Jun.Ch, USA.Jun.Ch Hemingway From Mariannehouse CCA
> Dam: Pedigree: Feli Fey First Love


Sire does not have a Cardiologist heart clearance.

I would also ask about ichthyosis results.

Lesley


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

NYresq said:


> To the OP, my wife and I just picked up our golden puppy last week. He is bred from parents who come from european lines. After researching here and overseas, it seems one of the claims to the european lines is a lower rate of cancer. The parents of our pup were both dna tested and documented to NOT carry the lymphoma gene. Apparently, this is one of the most common types of cancer in goldens.
> 
> I am not affiliated with the breeder in any way, we traveled from Long Island to the far western edge of PA to get our puppy.
> 
> ...


The "lymphoma gene" has not been identified...false advertising...


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Sally's Mom said:


> The "lymphoma gene" has not been identified...false advertising...


I didn't think so-thanks for confirmation from a vet, Sally's Mom.


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## prasanna1157 (Jun 26, 2015)

Thank you for your responses. I haven't heard from that breeder yet so I am waiting. Meanwhile, has anyone here heard about this breeder - www.chrys-haefen.com

I am looking at a litter from them. I don't have all the information yet but the sire is Pedigree: Can CH. Chrys-Haefen Mr Tambourine Man

Chrys-haefen Kennels: Gallery For: Chrys-haefen Mr Tambourine Man (Dylan)


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