# My vet said Hemangiosarcoma may be back



## pb1221 (Nov 21, 2006)

Hello all,

Last year we rescued an 8 year old amputee due to hemangiosarcoma. He has been fine all year long but yesterday the vet saw some small bumps and skin discoloration around his anal area to the left side where his leg was amputated. She thinks the cancer is back. I was so overwhelmed by what she said-I had brought him in for an ear infection....that I didn't ask her if there was any way to prove it. She just wants to do surgery right away. Isn't there a way to do a biopsy first? She seemed pretty convinced its the cancer and I just hope she is over reacting and it's something else benign. I'm sure before his leg was amputated someone did a biopsy??????? Anyone with any experience here?

I am so sad and my stomach just tightens up and does flip flops when I think about it. His birthday was 2 days ago and we were so happy and celebrating his health.

I don't know if I should look for a specialist somewhere or what.....

Why do these things have to happen before the holidays?

thanks everyone-please pray for Rusty-used to be Max until we found out his name had always been Rusty.

Pam


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I would talk to your vet about your concerns. If she doesn't cooperate, I'd get a second opinion whether at a vet school or another specialist.
Good Luck.. please let us know.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I agree that a second opinion would be wise, but would also not wait. With that ugly disease, time is of the essence. Prayers coming from our house that it is not something serious. Big hugs to Rusty and you. Please keep us posted.


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

I see you're in the Chicago area? I just did a quick Google search and this place got high marks for its services (state of the art, knowledge, etc.--but sometimes, like anything else, you get what you pay for, and comments were that it was on the pricey-side, but worth the extra costs--might be worthwhile for a second opinion, but I agree, with hemanio, time is of the essence).

http://www.vetspecialty.com/index2.htm

Good luck to you; I lost my sweet golden nearly 2 years ago to hemangio of the heart--she gave me a great month after treatment--I put one CD leg on her, with a First Place (!!!) still brings tears to my eyes sometimes. Hugs to your golden from me.


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## pb1221 (Nov 21, 2006)

Thank you all and thank you rappwizard for the link. I have heard of them and will give them a call. I am sorry about your loss of your golden. Do you have goldens now?


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

This would be a very atypical presentation of hemangiosarcoma. Are you sure it wasn't osteosarcoma?


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## pb1221 (Nov 21, 2006)

Well, I know she said hemangiosarcoma because that is what he had last year. He had it in his left rear leg around the knee area. They amputated the entire leg. We have done periodic ultrasounds and x rays to look at his heart and spleen for any recurrence and so far he has been fine. I hadn't even noticed that the left side of his rear end was lumpy, sort of puffy and swollen and some black circle in one spot. I have also heard of anal sac adenocarcinoma but she didn't mention that.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I second what Tippykayak wrote, and I was scrolling down to write the same thing. I would ask lots of questions to clarify both what the original cancer was, and any noninvasive tests they can do to see the extent of any problem you have now.


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## pb1221 (Nov 21, 2006)

Does anyone know of an Oncologist in the Chicago area?


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

This place was recommended in post #4

http://www.vetspecialty.com/index2.htm

I hope that the diagnosis is not cancer but if it is, that it is easily treatable.


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## pb1221 (Nov 21, 2006)

Thanks Tahnee-I was just told they don't actually have an Oncologist there though.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I know that the place mentioned doesnt have an onocologist on staff there but would they be able to recommend one to you. Most onocologists want a referral so maybe they can see you and recommend on where you should go. Could they do a biopsy for you?


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## 3SweetGoldens (Feb 28, 2007)

BeauShel said:


> I know that the place mentioned doesn't have an onocologist on staff there but would they be able to recommend one to you. Most onocologists want a referral so maybe they can see you and recommend on where you should go. Could they do a biopsy for you?


 
This was my thought also....could they do the biopsy for you? That would certainly speed the process wherever he ends up being treated, if it turns out to be anything serious. Please keep us updated, because I agree, that right now time is so critical, to find out just what it is you are dealing with for sure. Hopefully, the results could be back very soon with a firm diagnosis.
Sending positive thoughts and prayers to Rusty and to you as well. I well understand how you are feeling right now....we are all here for you!


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## Kelbys'Dad (Jan 19, 2009)

I can speak from experience the folks at Buffalo Grove are great people and will do everything possible to help you. This is where we took Kelby. 

Sending good thoughts for Rusty.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Here's one in Urbana

http://ness2.uic.edu/UI-Service/programs/UIUC763.html

This one in West Oswego

http://www.riverheightsvet.com/oncology.htm

What about the vet who treated him for his leg?


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## pb1221 (Nov 21, 2006)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeauShel 
I know that the place mentioned doesn't have an onocologist on staff there but would they be able to recommend one to you. Most onocologists want a referral so maybe they can see you and recommend on where you should go. Could they do a biopsy for you? 


This was my thought also....could they do the biopsy for you? That would certainly speed the process wherever he ends up being treated, if it turns out to be anything serious. Please keep us updated, because I agree, that right now time is so critical, to find out just what it is you are dealing with for sure. Hopefully, the results could be back very soon with a firm diagnosis.
Sending positive thoughts and prayers to Rusty and to you as well. I well understand how you are feeling right now....we are all here for you! 

Thanks everyone My vet said there is no point in doing a biopsy without doing the complete surgery to remove it at the same time. Makes sense in a way-they can't do a biopsy without putting him under. So then they would only have to put him under once. He is 9 years old just this past wednesday.

I'm sure it will be more expensive to see an Oncologist but I would also feel better having him in someones hands who does this type of surgery often.

I just hate waiting......Ugh!


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## pb1221 (Nov 21, 2006)

Good idea Tahnee-I think they were up north closer to Wisconsin...I could probably find out.

thanks for the links!


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Sending all pawsitive thoughts for your Rusty. I hope you quickly find a good oncologist who will know the latest and greatest treatment for your boy.


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## Sucker For Gold (Jan 13, 2009)

It sounds as if you may be dealing with cutaneous or dermal hemangio. Most of us don't get that lucky. The good news is that when cutaneous hemangio is caught early, there is a high success rate with surgery alone. If only the upper layer of skin is involved the prognosis is excellent. Hemangio is a very aggressive very scary cancer, but of the three types of hemangio that you can experience, cutaneous gives you very good chances of survival. 

I hope this turns out to be the case for you and your Rusty and I hope this makes you breath a little easier over the next few days. You are in our thoughts and prayers as you go through this.


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## pb1221 (Nov 21, 2006)

His last hemangiosarcoma was subcutaneous in his left rear leg-I think in the knee area. We adopted him shortly after the amputation.

I have decided to get a second opinion at the vets office we normally go to and then also an opinion from an oncologist at Arboretumview in Downers Grove. It's a little bit closer for us and I was able to get an appt. tomorrow.

The original vet says surgery to remove and biopsy at the same time. I just don't understand why they can't do a biopsy before doing extensive surgery in that area.

Pam and Rusty-used to be Max


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I hadn't really heard of cutaneous hemangiosarcoma, since we usually hear about it as a vascular disease. That's why my first thought was osteosarcoma, because that's the cancer that most often leads to limb amputation. I did some reading, though. Dermal hemangio does happen, and the treatment is to completely remove the lesion and the area around it. I guess they were being proactive by taking the limb. 

I'm very discouraged by the new dark spot you mentioned, since it seems like that's the major clinical sign of dermal hemangiosarcoma.

I think the reason the vet won't biopsy without removing the lesion is that cutting into a lesion increases the chances of metastasis, and in a cancer like hemangiosarcoma, that could cut down drastically on the dog's chance of survival. Better to get the whole thing with clean margins and _then_ do a biopsy.

An oncologist won't necessarily be helpful here unless there are signs of metastasis. The first treatment, as somebody said before, is to completely remove the lesion and area. That requires surgical expertise, not necessarily an oncology specialty.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

I agree with Brian (tippykayak). What ever YOUR decision is I wish you and Rusty the best!! :wavey:


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Praying for you and Rusty tomorrow.


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## ggdenny (Nov 2, 2008)

Pulling for Rusty.


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

pb1221, I also second what Tippykayak has to say; the vets probably feel that in order to see what is going on, they need to see around the margins, and in order to do that, and get clear margins, they must operate. Just make sure you understand what is going on so you can make the best decision for your pet.

My first golden had cutaneous hemangiosarcoma in the groin area when he was 5, and he actually was misdiagnosed at first because the vet I took him to only did a biopsy, which came back normal. Luck was on our side, because within a matter of months I was referred to a new vet, who insisted on an operation, although my husband didn't see the point, considering the results of the biopsy. I went with my gut, and trusted this vet, and sure enough, it was the right decision. Jake lived for 7 years without ever a relapse, and passed away this year of unrelated causes at close to 13. I hope for as good a prognosis for your golden.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Pb and rusty*

PB AND RUSTY:

I will be praying for you tomorrow!!


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## Sucker For Gold (Jan 13, 2009)

tippykayak said:


> I think the reason the vet won't biopsy without removing the lesion is that cutting into a lesion increases the chances of metastasis, and in a cancer like hemangiosarcoma, that could cut down drastically on the dog's chance of survival. Better to get the whole thing with clean margins and _then_ do a biopsy.


I agree. 

Also, given the aggressive nature of Hemangio, Rusty's prior history of Hemangio, and the location of the lesion, I would want it removed as quickly as possible. I don't know, but perhaps this plays a part in the vet's decision to remove, then biopsy.

As long as the lesion remains cutaneous, chances of survival are very very good. Should it become sub-cutaneous, the game plan changes radically and the situation becomes a lot more serious because the chance for metastasis rises significantly. Sub-cutananeous is still survivable, but your chances begin to decrease significantly. The location of this lesion leaves without options such as amputation, so perhaps the surgery becomes time critical.

Given time, cutaneous hemangio (survivable) will become sub-cutaneous (less survivable) and sub-cutaneous hemangio will in time become visceral hemangio (highly unsurvivable). When this happens the game is over:no:.

We lost our last two dogs to visceral hemangio. Strangely enough, we lost our German Shepherd *MAX* to it in 2000, and our golden *RUSTY* to it this past January.

Again, you are in our thoughts as you go through this. I know how difficult it can be.


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## Duke's Momma (Mar 1, 2007)

I don't know anything about hemangiosarcoma, but I certainly hope that your pup does well and if it has returned, that they can get it all as Tippy said with clean margins.

My brother explained cancer to me like this when our mother dealt (and has been healed) from colorectal cancer. The reason why some grow so fast is that it has an insatiable desire to survive. When disturbed, via a biopsy, it puts out "danger will robinson" vibes and it grows even faster to survive, thus metastasizing to other areas to ensure survival.

Good luck today! We'll be praying


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## pb1221 (Nov 21, 2006)

Thank you ALL for your prayers, well wishes and information.

Well, we saw the vet we usually see this morning. Unfortunately after looking at the slides from the aspiration she too thinks its hemangio again.

She explained as some of you have already said that it will disturb things to just do a biopsy first. Ok, makes sense.

According to his records from a previous vet who amputated the leg while he was in a rescue foster home, it was subcutaneous hemangio at that time. So, we knew what we were getting into. None of the families that were interested in him before this was brought to light, wanted him anymore. When I heard that, there was almost no question in my mind that we would take him for as long as he decided to be around.

He has been a wonderful addition to our family and we have no regrets. He is the most well behaved, easiest dog that needed no training at all. He is so darn happy too. He is joy to be around.

I left him at the vets for an ultrasound and xrays today. All came back clear so there is no other obvious sign of the hemangio in his body. He will go back next Monday (first appt. we could get) for the surgery. Then we will get the biopsy results from that. Assuming it is hemangio either cutaneous or sub, we are going to get him into a trial with a new drug to treat this cancer in dogs. I don't know the name of the drug or much about it but I will as soon as possible.

Rusty says thanks everyone for wishing me the best!


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Will continue thinking good thoughts for Rusty! Please keep us informed as time allows.


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## desilu (Nov 2, 2006)

Just now reading this thread. Sending healing thoughts for Rusty and for you!


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

We will keep saying a prayer for him and thinking good thoughts for next week.


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## kathi127 (Sep 17, 2009)

Sending special thoughts and prayers for your Rusty! We lost our Rusty in October to Hemangio of the spleen and by the time it was discovered it was too late so I am glad you are catching this early and hopefully he will be with you for a long, long time.


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## goldenluver (Feb 26, 2007)

Sending positive and healing thoughts your way.


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