# Golden Havoc Kennel in Utah



## s_spiff (Aug 5, 2013)

Hi, newbie here. We're planning on getting a GR and are going to visit Golden Havoc today to have a look at the current litter.
The website: Golden Havoc Retrievers
Now, I don't think they've updated the website to show the current litter, but I'd like to know if there's a way to figure out if the sire and dam are in good shape and that the puppies are healthy. 

The price on each one is around 1500 USD for the english creme.


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## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

I would ask them why they charge more for "English Creme" dogs. Do those dogs cost more to breed? I only saw 1 of their dogs in OFFA's database. I'd ask them why more of their dogs aren't in there.

Their contract looks kind of weird too...I'm not sure if the statement is common: "Purchaser has 14 days from the date of purchase in which to have a veterinarian examine the pup for health problems. If Seller does not hear from Purchaser within that period, it will be assumed that the Purchaser is satisfied and that the pup is in good health".

And then in the Hip Elbow Dysplasia section: "charges incurred in replacing a puppy will be assumed by the purchaser. " That seems kind of weird too. I'm not sure what "charges" they're talking about...maybe shipping?

Also..."Many hip-elbow problems we are aware of stem from pups being put on one of the premium dog foods are now known to potentially expedite growth in puppies and potentially result in hip and elbow problems. Purchaser must provide proof that the dog was NOT fed such a premium dog food or other food that may lead to hip-elbow problems". Huh? On what scientific grounds is that based? I understand that many people are advocates of "slow growth", but that seems like a pretty hard line.


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## CStrong73 (Jun 11, 2012)

They only provide a pedigree for one of the bitches in the current pairings and none for the sire or other bitch. That one pedigree doesn't contain ANY of the champions that they list on their main page. So they are either digging way back prior to the 4 generation pedigree on k9 data for that "champion lineage" or those ancestors are from the sire's side.

It also bothers me that their website says so blatantly "Puppies for sale".

I am by no means an expert, but despite how cute the puppy photos are, I think I'd keep looking.


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

Goldens that are bred should have AT MINIMUM hips, elbows, heart, and eye clearances. Hips can be OFA or PenHip, but final clearances are not valid until the dog is 24 months old. Elbow clearances are through OFA and are also not valid until the dog is 24 months old. Hearts need to be cleared by a board certified cardiologist, NOT a practitioner who can often miss murmurs. Heart clearances are valid when the dog is at least 12 months old. Eyes should be cleared by an ophthalmologist through CERF of OFA. Eyes should be cleared ANNUALLY.

One of the dams they list on their website "Mayzy" does not have an eye clearances on OFA. Orthopedic Foundation for Animals. Her heart was cleared by a practitioner and not a specialist, so that is a spotty clearance as well.

I don't see any pedigree information for the other dam or the stud. I would pass.


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

You can look up all health test information of Orthopedic Foundation for Animals's website by going to offa.org and typing in the full registered name (without titles) or registration number of any dog you come across. It is important to validate clearances before you go any farther.


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

Have you looked at Mariah Goldens in Casper: Mariah Goldens Casper Wyoming


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## s_spiff (Aug 5, 2013)

Hey guys,
That was fast. Thanks for the replies. As for the K9 data for the other sires/dams:

Wall-e : Pedigree: Sir Wall-E Of Canterbury
Nala: Pedigree: Taylor's Golden Nala II

I'll look at the OFA data too. But with given pedigree information, is there something I should be looking for or asking the breeder when I go to see the pups?


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

The sire has an Australian sire and a dam bred in the Netherlands. Annef


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

The 'English' ancestors on their website must be far, far back in the pedigree as they were around many years ago Annef


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

For the kind of money they are asking, I would expect full clearences on parents plus generations of clearences behind them. There is simply not enough clearence wise and competition wise going on here to justify the pricing. 

Here is what I see...

Wall-e is missing and elbow clearence. Since they accomplished elbow testing on other dogs and elbow and hips are usually x-rayed at the same time, I would be suspicious of his elbow health. His dam is missing hip clearences and he has a full sibling that is missing an elbow clearence as well. He does not have any heart or eye clearences listed on OFFA. 

Nala is an 04 model, making her 8.5 years old. For me that is old to be asking a girl to whelp. She is also missing elbows and her heart is by a practitioner which is not ideal. She does not have any eye clearences listed on OFFA. Her dam has no clearences at all and her sire is missing an elbow.

Mayzy has hips and elbows. Heart is by practitioner and it should be by cardiologist. No eye information listed on OFFA. Of course her mother is missing the things above and her father is not showing any clearences at all.

Personally it is a HUGE pet peeve of mine when someone rides on the coat tails of champions back in the pedigree. They know Championships are important, time consuming and costly to work towards, so they claim Champion lineage and do nothing to prove their own dogs. We are talking that the first dogs with any kind of title will be 3-4 generations back behind the puppies and most of that impressive list is further back. As an example Sunset's Happy Duke was born in 1964. These dogs will have little to no influence on these puppies.

So, for the money there is just not enough here. You could get a puppy from champion parents with generations of clearances for the same price.


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