# Doesn't like rote work



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Well.... she's only a year old. Barely. That's one thing... even though most girls I've seen through class tend to get a lot more mature sooner than boys. 

When you say rote work - do you mean you work on stations/rotations? 

I have to run to class myself -


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

Rote: A process using routine or repetition.

She doesn't like the class or match with rote. Perhaps isn't the routine that is the problem, but right now that's what I see. I just came from a store where she hadn't gone before, I put her on heel. She paid attention.

And yes, she is still very young.


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## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

It might be her age but some dogs don't like doing the same thing over and over again no matter the age.
It's like humans who can get bored. 

My 5.5 year old will get creative when there is too much repetition during our private obedience sessions. For example, if he is asked to do a retrieve over high after doing it perfectly for two times, he will decide that he must change it up and do something goofy like not taking the jump - he's telling me why do I have to do it again if I've already done in right. We have to break up heeling because he gets bored if we do it for too long. Our trainer (an AKC judge) finds it humerous.


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

Yep, I've seen the same behavior with Arab horses when training with a lunge line: I've proven that I can do that jump, I'll dodge around it this time, for grins.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

It sounds like she needs you to make things more interesting for her. Notice I said YOU, don't depend on toys or treats to do the work, become a crazy lady that she has to kep an eye on because she never knows what you're going to do next.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

It took me awhile to realize that even though the dog can do something at home or in a particular setting they may not be able to do it in another with a different set of distractions. As I understand it, to some extent it's true of all dogs and results in the need for "taking it on the road" and proofing. This might be what's going on with Maddie.

Just last week I was talking to our trainer, who has trained 2 Goldens to OTCH, about why Goldens are so successful in Obedience. Her take on it was that at least in part it was attributable to their high tolerance for repetition as compared to other breeds. So hopefully you can work Maddie through this.


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

Loisiana said:


> It sounds like she needs you to make things more interesting for her. Notice I said YOU, don't depend on toys or treats to do the work, become a crazy lady that she has to kep an eye on because she never knows what you're going to do next.


I'm pretty close to crazy already, thank you very much. :no:

On another thread I was threatening to get a bright red clown nose to increase my interest to her. Perhaps if I pat myself down with hamburger and dance a jig it might help also.

Sigh. I'm trying to be interesting. :wave:


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Find something she really enjoys doing: playing tug, wrestling with you, whatever she has fun doing that is considered "play" 

Go somewhere you have problems with the obedience work and see if she will offer the play behavior with as much enthusiasm as she does at home. If not, then it's not the behaviors, it's the environment you need to condition her to. If she will still play, then intersperse a little training in between some really full-out-tons-of-fun playing.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

I don't play tug, but I throw hot dog chunks really high in the air for her to try to catch, or if we're outside walking back toward the house after training in the park, I throw the chunks different directions...she'll go get it, come back, and wait for me to throw the next one. She really looks forward to this, but she needs to focus for 15 minutes on training first, and she understands that. I will act goofy from time to time if necessary.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I probably shouldn't comment tonight (I'm braindead exhausted after about 3.5 hours of class time between the two dogs and the two clubs)....

I attend group classes all the time - it sounds like that is what you are attending? 

In general, the dogs I see who have focus or performance problems with the heelwork and attention are those who just do not thrive very much on heeling, particularly based on whatever the owner is doing. 

I kept my lip zipped at class, but the figure 8 - for example - I watched a handler use a method to get more drive in the figure 8.... reaching back and hauling the dog by the collar.... and it only drove the dog further behind and semi-shutdown. 

This is the role of the instructor to pick apart what they see a handler doing that's not working for the dog. I would seriously think about talking with your instructor, picking up tips on what she sees you doing differently in class that you may not be doing at home. 

Some dogs have very natural drive. Others need particular handling to help them figure out that the obedience thing is fun. 

I enjoy heeling at home and at class, so it generally shows to people around us as well as my dogs. Where we do have problems is where I feel uncomfortable and get clumsy, giving my dog mixed signals. <- Good example of that is when my instructor makes me do a pattern on the figure 8 which requires a - forward 2 steps, turn, sidestep twice, forward 2 steps, sidestep twice, glide through the middle and around the outside circle and repeat the pattern for the inside circle. Even though Jacks and I are a very tight team and worship the ground each other walks on, we do TERRIBLE at these circles. All communication between us gets completely messed up. 

Something else I see at class with other people - they change pace constantly, or unconsciously nag at their dogs. They stress up and forget that it needs to be fun for the dog - pay attention to the expression on your face and the sound of your voice when you are out there "playing".

The reason why dogs have problems with repetition isn't based on how smart they are. Just play a game of fetch with a golden and see how many times they will INSIST on retrieving a tennis ball.  It comes down to the owner getting tired or bored themselves and not giving consistent rewards or clear enough signals to the dog. 

This isn't aimed at you Gwen, but it's basically what I've seen while attending group classes for a long time. Your instructor or even other trainers may be the best for getting feedback if they are watching what you are doing.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thankfully, Molly is super patient and will do everything for as long as I want. However, I do try to mix in fun things. Sometimes I play tug at the end of a training session. Many times between exercises I will do spins and high fives with her because she LOVES them. She especially loves it when I walk backwards while continuously asking for her paw. It's like she's playing whack-a-mole and my hands are the moles. Sounds stupid, but it's so much fun for her. If we are working outside, I'll throw a few balls for her after training. 

I also keep my voice upbeat and happy when working with her. Even though Molly does not mind repetitive work, I do try to not overdo it. I have a bad habit of focusing and trying to perfect one thing when I really should just call it a day. 


Sent from Petguide.com App


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

I'm definitely a novice at this, no question. I'm thinking of driving down to Ventura for obedience classes there. I understand it is a much more varied and taught class.

The instructor here, who is lovely and experienced, does not really teach (IMHO), just to go through the paces of what a trial would look like, which is useful. I'm also bored to tears but I needed the practice to learn where to place my feet, when to say 'Mother may I", etc. 

But I think it may be better for Maddie and me to go elsewhere much of the time and only come to that class occasionally, say once a month or so.

I do use a frisbee (both thrown and tug of war) with her for a reward when we are working obedience out on our walks and it works great.

Mostly, the problem is that I'm a beginner at this and am sure that I'm making lots of mis-steps. 

I appreciate all the advice that you guys are giving.


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## Davidrob2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Gwen_Dandridge said:


> Mostly, the problem is that I'm a beginner at this and am sure that I'm making lots of mis-steps.
> 
> I appreciate all the advice that you guys are giving.


Ditto here!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Loisiana said:


> It sounds like she needs you to make things more interesting for her. Notice I said YOU, don't depend on toys or treats to do the work, become a crazy lady that she has to kep an eye on because she never knows what you're going to do next.


This is spectacular advice. I love using treats in training, but any time it becomes a bidding war, that's a sign that treats are the wrong reinforcer for the situation. It really helps into a crazy person who changes direction, changes commands, and is totally unpredictable. Instead of doing figure 8s over and over and over, try doing patterns that *aren't* part of a typical match environment. Teach her that she has to stick with you, not go through a pattern she already knows.

That can increase her attention and actually act as its own reinforcer, since you have a smart dog who has to work at the top of her game to stay with you. That's highly rewarding for a smartie.


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