# Couple questions on hip dysplasia



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Definitely notify the breeder. They may still make that matchup again if this is the only pup that gets HD, but they'll want the information.

I haven't had a dog with HD myself, but personally I'd get a consult with an orthopedic vet after your vet works up an action plan so you can go over it and tweak it accordingly together.

Whether or not surgery is a good idea depends a great deal on the severity of your dog's symptoms and what the docs see when they look at the x-rays, so I'm not sure anybody can offer you great advice right now on whether to do surgery or not. That's why it's so helpful to go over all the information with a new doctor who specializes in orthopedics. 

Good luck! Many dogs with HD have wonderful outcomes in the long term with the right interventions.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Please contact the breeder! They need to know!


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

We found out Tayla had HD at 7 months. She was not a good candidate for the early surgery and in fact before we got that info we decided not to do anything and just wait. She is in no pain, very active and just walks a little funky (back end sways back and forth a lot). We are keeping her weight down and doing exercises (walking and swimming) that will help build up muscles back there. She is on Dasuquin and later we may do Adequin injections. We will also do acupuncture on her. Our vet is hopeful that surgery may not be needed if we are lucky.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

D_IN_GR said:


> I have a six month old female golden retriever that was diagnosed with hip dysplasia.
> My vet is going to get with the radiologist and work up a plan of action for my pup.
> 
> She mentioned there were a couple of ways to go surgical and non-surgical anyone have a pup that went the surgery route, and wished they didn’t after it was done?
> ...


Sorry to hear this. Just curious. Is this breeder offering to pay for the medical bills?


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

So sorry to hear this. Definitely seek a second opinion or have the x rays sent to OFA (www.offa.org) to have board certified radiologists grade the level of dysplasia. 

I would also recommend a second opinion with a board certified orthopedic vet. Positioning is immensely important. Poor positioning during a radiograph can make good hips look poor. 

Definitely contact your breeder. They may have some insight and can provide support and hopefully additional information. They most certainly need to know. Before you do anything, they should be contacted. 

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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

*Thanks*

My vet did say sometimes these things do shift a bit and are not as bad as they seem. 

She will be getting a consult from the radiologist, and a second opinion from an orthopedic specialist before she makes any recommendations.

I emailed the breeder she was surprised there was a problem apparently the breeding pair have very good orthopedic blood lines; she wants to take a look at the x-rays to verify they weren’t misread.

Thanks
D_IN_GR


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

D_IN_GR said:


> I emailed the breeder she was surprised there was a problem apparently the breeding pair have very good orthopedic blood lines; she wants to take a look at the x-rays to verify they weren’t misread.
> 
> Thanks
> D_IN_GR


That is a normal thing for a breeder to request. They may also ask for a second opinion from an orthopedic veterinarian. 

My Bear has orthopedic issues (torn ACL) but is also mildly dysplastic. We are doing surgery on his knee for the ACL issue, and do not plan on doing anything to correct his hips. We were told his hips are such a mild form that it shouldn't cause him any problems in the future. As a precaution, he is on fish oil, vitamin E, and glucosamine/chrondatin/MSM pills. 

Regardless which route you go, the most important thing you can do is keep your pup lean. For activities, I encourage swimming because it is low-impact and strengthens the muscles.  



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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Also, depending on how the xrays were positioned will make hips look worse! Also, was she limping or having a hard time getting up?


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Radiographs do not tell the whole picture... Some dogs with horrible looking hips do not always develop lameness and some dogs with mild hips can have severe hip pain. Where the rads taken due to hip pain?


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

She bunny hops when she runs; also doesn't like to jump.
I called the vet to see if I can get a copy of the x-ray the vet aid said the board certified radiologists sent his findings back so I had her take a peek for me.
He agrees she has a severe case of hip dysplasia.


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## Artnlibsmom (May 8, 2013)

My Liberty (that I lost two weeks ago, probably due to hemangio) had moderate HD at one year old. We did several conservative treatments....adequan, glucosamine mix supplements, PT, kept her weight down, etc. Unfortunately those treatments didn't help enough. She had problems getting up stairs (we built a ramp), and carried her right leg at any gait above a walk. We ended up in Ithaca at Colonial. After much soul searching, reading and talking to others that had dealt with the same problem, we chose a FHO (femoral head ostectomy). In February of 2007 at 20 months old, the surgery was performed. Liberty responded wonderfully. She recovered quite quickly, the biggest problem was slowing her down. Luckily, moving on the leg and bearing weight is actually encouraged, however Libby had to continue daily walks on a leash for several weeks. This prevented her from moving too fast which would make it easier for her to just carry the leg, s l o w walks forced her to place the foot and step on it every step of the way. It was quite entertaining to watch my husband circle our 3 acre yard with the snowblower (we live in northern PA) so that Libby and I could take multiple walks each day without wading through snowdrifts! The vet hospital taught us massage and stretching techniques to encourage her healing process. Up until the day she passed away, she would still back up to me at night for her "butt rub". The surgery ended up at about $2800, well worth it for her to be able to enjoy her life. Liberty was an active girl, she swam, chased bunnies, and played hard with her brother. She had a slight limp from the slight shortening of her leg (most people couldn't see the limp), and had just started to show some lameness on her left side (which actually looked worse in the xrays than the right side). If she were still with us I would not have put her through surgery at 8 years old, but at less than two, I would definitely do it again. Good luck with your baby, get second opinions if needed and a board certified Ortho is a must. I'll have to see if I can find my original blog in which I documented Liberty's journey. Seems like it was a "pups of gold" page on blogger, but it has been so long now I'm not sure. 



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## Artnlibsmom (May 8, 2013)

Here is the blog for Liberty's FHO

http://pupsofgoldonline.blogspot.com/2007/01/libertys-fho.html

Hope it helps.

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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

Artnlibsmom said:


> Here is the blog for Liberty's FHO
> 
> Pups of Gold Online: Liberty's FHO
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the info.
I'm leaning toward a surgical solution if that's the recommendation from the vet. 
I would like her to be able to enjoy life to the fullest, and not deal with chronic pain.

Luckily she’s a small golden only about forty pounds now, and isn’t a chow hound so keeping her lean shouldn’t be a problem.

Thanks 
D_IN_GR


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## Artnlibsmom (May 8, 2013)

I'm leaning toward a surgical solution if that's the recommendation from the vet. 
I would like her to be able to enjoy life to the fullest, and not deal with chronic pain.

Luckily she’s a small golden only about forty pounds now, and isn’t a chow hound so keeping her lean shouldn’t be a problem.

Glad to be of assistance, good luck!


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

*spaying and hip dysplasia*

Anyone believe that spaying a dog at six months would cause severe hip dysplasia?

The breeder wanted to see the x-ray but after I sent her an email that the vet aid took a look at the radiologist report and he agreed it was a severe case of hip dysplasia; she then sends me links about spaying a dog will cause this.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Is your 6 month puppy already spayed? 


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

CarolinaCasey said:


> Is your 6 month puppy already spayed?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


She turned six months about a week ago; I had an x-ray done while she was under. 

I notice she would run funny kind of kicking her left leg out, and she really won't jump up. So I wanted it checked out.

The spay was done Wednesday.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

If the x-rays were taken right after the spay - the spay did not cause it. It would be ridiculous to say a spay only a few hours old caused severe hip dysplasia. 


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

Brave said:


> If the x-rays were taken right after the spay - the spay did not cause it. It would be ridiculous to say a spay only a few hours old caused severe hip dysplasia.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 Apparently when she realized a board certified radiologist looked at the x-ray and agreed with my vets diagnoses,
and my vet was consulting with a local orthopedic vet, and Michigan State University.
She wanted to cast the blame at me, and wash her hands of the situation.

This is fairly surprising she is a highly regarded breeder, and has several recommendations on this site, and I see members here that have her dogs, and have had good luck with them.

Oh by the way they took the x-ray before the spay was performed.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

D_IN_GR said:


> She wanted to cast the blame at me, and wash her hands of the situation.


Did she know when the pup was spayed--perhaps she's thinking you spayed prior to 6 mos?

Have you sent a copy of the xrays to her?


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

SheetsSM said:


> Did she know when the pup was spayed--perhaps she's thinking you spayed prior to 6 mos?
> 
> Have you sent a copy of the xrays to her?


No my email to her was I had requested a x-ray at spay time so she did know that's when the x-ray was done.

She basically sent me an email with links about how bad it is to spay before a year, and said if you have another question she would be glad to help.

Indicating she really didn't want to see the x-ray, and was washing her hands of the issue.

I did reply that the x-ray was taken before the spay procedure took place.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

First of all the spaying itself (the actual surgery) does not cause the hip dysplasia, but the spay stops the production of estrogen which is needed for the proper formation of the joints. So the hip dysplasia would develop after the spay.

The other thing is what does your contract say? I know many breeders are including clauses in their contracts that state that if you spay/neuter before a certain age the contract is void. That might be what the breeder is telling you.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Selli-Belle said:


> I know many breeders are including clauses in their contracts that state that if you spay/neuter before a certain age the contract is void. That might be what the breeder is telling you.


Innocent question because I am curious: even if the contract says that, the hip dysplasia would have occurred prior to the spay, wouldn't some parts of the contract be valid? 




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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

Brave said:


> Innocent question because I am curious: even if the contract says that, the hip dysplasia would have occurred prior to the spay, wouldn't some parts of the contract be valid?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Took a peek at the contract it doesn't state a minimum time before spaying,
but does have literature in there why it's better to wait until they are seven months old.
I actually did discuss it with the vet before spaying her, she's in the camp of spaying before the first heat to prevent cancer. Also said it's rare but some golden can go into heat before seven months.

What swayed my opinion was I wanted a x-ray of her hips to see why she ran kicking her left leg out, and inability to jump.


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## humanrescuesdog (Mar 6, 2013)

My labrador, Charlie, had hip dysplasia as a puppy. He ended up having a triple pelvic osteotomy. It was a pretty stressful 8 weeks post surgery - we had to keep him in the crate most of the time to ensure he didn't walk on that hip. Imagine keeping a young lab inactive for 8 weeks. We needed to hoist him outside to get him to wee. As awful as that time was, it was totally worth it as he runs to his heart content now. It's beautiful to watch. There is a yahoo support group that is filled with tons of information on TPOs, just google it.


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

humanrescuesdog said:


> My labrador, Charlie, had hip dysplasia as a puppy. He ended up having a triple pelvic osteotomy. It was a pretty stressful 8 weeks post surgery - we had to keep him in the crate most of the time to ensure he didn't walk on that hip. Imagine keeping a young lab inactive for 8 weeks. We needed to hoist him outside to get him to wee. As awful as that time was, it was totally worth it as he runs to his heart content now. It's beautiful to watch. There is a yahoo support group that is filled with tons of information on TPOs, just google it.


Can I ask ball park what the surgery ran? My vet office called last night said the vet hadn't forgotten about me, but hadn't heard back from MSU, and the orthopedic surgeon in town yet.

The surgeon in town specializes in TPO surgery he was trained at Ohio State Univ.

So I think that's the option there looking at.

Thanks
D_IN_GR


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

Here is about a month old shot of her giving orders to the horses.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Just as a point of fact, there's really no proof that spaying at a particular age has a significant relationship to the development of hip dysplasia. There's some solid evidence that earlier spays and neuters can delay the closing of growth plates a little, but really nothing that shows a dramatic enough change in bone shape to _cause_ something like HD or even to increase the possibility in a joint that might already be prone to dysplasia.

It's certainly a connection worth exploring, but blaming HD on the age of spaying would be a big stretch.


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

I wonder why there is such a big spectrum of opinions on spaying pre and post first heat. Because of Ellie's anxiety and distrust, I wanted her comfortable with her vet before having it done. The day I took her to the vet where she showed no anxiety was the day before her first birthday (May 2), and she started her bleeding the very same day. Needless to say, she has finally stopped bleeding, but still has a week to 10 days to go before we can rest easy. She's been kept inside other than tooth and poor thing is going crazy cooped up! I am NOT taking any chances with her! ?

She'll be spayed in about 2 months. That's about the time it will take for her insides to be "back to normal" according to our German vet.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Thanks Tippy!!! As always, you have a way with words. 

Regarding the large spectrum of opinion on spaying age, I would gander a guess that it's quite like the food debates. Some people have research to back up one opinion. Others have research to back up other opinions. Alter age and its effects on Goldens and other large breed dogs is one of those topics that is being research and researched and researched. As of right now, there is no definitive answer. I know that an individual may have an ulterior motive. For us, Bear was altered before we could take him home at 9 weeks. We had no say, and honestly didn't know better at the time. But the rescue, who sees thousands of unwanted dogs, and hundreds of pregnant bitches or new mamas, feels it is in the animals best interest to be altered before it is placed. 

I wonder if the spay debate extends to other species ----- like cats. 

To the OP regarding prices for a hip surgery, Bear is having a TTA surgery on his left KNEE to fix a torn ACL and the price for this ranges from $3,700 - $4,500 depending on where we went for an estimate. Obviously this isn't a hip surgery. And we probably live in a different part of the country, so I hope it's cheaper for you.

I would still reach out to the breeder, especially if they have a health guarantee in the contract. Remember to be nice and respectful. I understand this is a very stressful time for both you and pup. 


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

Brave said:


> Thanks Tippy!!! As always, you have a way with words.
> 
> Regarding the large spectrum of opinion on spaying age, I would gander a guess that it's quite like the food debates. Some people have research to back up one opinion. Others have research to back up other opinions. Alter age and its effects on Goldens and other large breed dogs is one of those topics that is being research and researched and researched. As of right now, there is no definitive answer. I know that an individual may have an ulterior motive. For us, Bear was altered before we could take him home at 9 weeks. We had no say, and honestly didn't know better at the time. But the rescue, who sees thousands of unwanted dogs, and hundreds of pregnant bitches or new mamas, feels it is in the animals best interest to be altered before it is placed.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. 
I'm mostly sticking to just the facts with communications with the breeder. 
Her contract does state if there is a problem with eyes, hips etc that you can either get a replacement puppy or if you keep your dog she will refund half the money.

I haven't addressed that aspect with her yet. She would like a copy of the x-rays, and all the other records to have a ortho doc she trusts look over the stuff.

D_IN_GR


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

D_IN_GR said:


> Thanks for the info.
> I'm mostly sticking to just the facts with communications with the breeder.
> Her contract does state if there is a problem with eyes, hips etc that you can either get a replacement puppy or if you keep your dog she will refund half the money.
> 
> ...


That's a fairly typical request from the breeder. It's my understanding that HD is sometimes misdiagnosed -- a lot hinges on the positioning in the x rays. The fact that your vet is already consulting with orthopedic specialists should mostly rule that out... but I don't think it's unreasonable for the breeder to get an opinion from someone she already knows and trusts. As hard as this diagnosis is on you, I imagine it's also very tough for the breeder. Give her the opportunity to consult with her trusted specialist and to come to terms with it and I'm sure she will abide by her contract and be there to support you (I say this with no knowledge of who your breeder is. But if it's someone that the knowledgable people on this forum have frequently recommended as being reputable and responsible, I think it's very likely this will be the case).

My knowledge of HD is a bit limited. My younger dog (an unknown mix from a rescue) has HD, diagnosed at 13 months old. We went through 6 months of rehab on an underwater treadmill to build the musculature in his hind end. Unfortunately, despite our success with that he still had the beginning of arthritic changes by the time we were done. We had an appointment with an ortho specialist at NC state in February but had to cancel because my older dog (golden) was very ill and the funds had to be used to diagnose and treat him. I've heard from some to expect $5,000 to 7,500 (I know, that's a big spread... I've heard lots of different numbers) for a hip replacement as that is the surgical option I am leaning toward. I think FHO is to some extent a little less than a THR. A lot of it depends on where you live though. Good luck with your pup!

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## humanrescuesdog (Mar 6, 2013)

D_IN_GR said:


> Can I ask ball park what the surgery ran? My vet office called last night said the vet hadn't forgotten about me, but hadn't heard back from MSU, and the orthopedic surgeon in town yet.
> 
> The surgeon in town specializes in TPO surgery he was trained at Ohio State Univ.
> 
> ...


I think it was around $5000 all up , with rehab etc. That's in Australian dollars. We were lucky enough to have pet insurance that covered it all.


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

humanrescuesdog said:


> I think it was around $5000 all up , with rehab etc. That's in Australian dollars. We were lucky enough to have pet insurance that covered it all.


Thanks for the info gives me a ball park number.


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

humanrescuesdog said:


> I think it was around $5000 all up , with rehab etc. That's in Australian dollars. We were lucky enough to have pet insurance that covered it all.


Vet called and updated that TPO is the recommendation.

Apparently it's a bit of a controversial surgery now. Half the staff at MSU are for it the other half is against it.

My vet wants me to make an appointment with the vet over there who specializes in that surgery for some more x-rays, and tests.

Hip replacement is the other option, and three time more expensive so... hoping for TPO.


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## Artnlibsmom (May 8, 2013)

Has there been any conversation of FHO?


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

Artnlibsmom said:


> Has there been any conversation of FHO?



None so far, but I understand recovery is easier, and they are still pain free.

The Orthopedic vet at MSU might suggest that after he has a look at her.


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## Artnlibsmom (May 8, 2013)

I remember from our journey that one of the primary concerns with FHO is weight. You need to keep the dog on the lighter side. If I'm remembering my research right, TPO actually changes the structure of the pelvis. That wasn't an option for us as Libby's acetabulum was too shallow for repositioning of the pelvis to be helpful. Recovery from FHO IS definitely easier but if we could have afforded the THR we probably would have gone that route. Another problem for us was not only was she young, but her brother was the same age, so confining her to a crate for 6-8 weeks recovery would have been hard on her. I think we ended up making the right choice for us, but there are definitely pros (and cons) to each of these procedures.


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## humanrescuesdog (Mar 6, 2013)

D_IN_GR said:


> Vet called and updated that TPO is the recommendation.
> 
> Apparently it's a bit of a controversial surgery now. Half the staff at MSU are for it the other half is against it.
> 
> ...


I found that TPO was a good procedure for Charlie. I found this yahoo group a wealth of information when I was learning about it: tpo : Triple Pelvic Osteotomy surgery for dogs

Please let me know if there are any questions you have about it.


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

humanrescuesdog said:


> I found that TPO was a good procedure for Charlie. I found this yahoo group a wealth of information when I was learning about it: tpo : Triple Pelvic Osteotomy surgery for dogs
> 
> Please let me know if there are any questions you have about it.


Thanks for the info I need to call the school in about twenty minutes to see if I can get a quick appointment. There is a short time frame she will be eligible to be able to have this surgery.


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

*Question about the breeder*

Wasn’t able to get in for a TPO at MSU my vet is talking to them seeing if she can get an over book moved for me.

I have a question about the breeder.
I sent her a copy of the x ray she took a look, and apparently agreed my pup has hip dysplasia*. *
She just said I would exercise her a lot, and maybe the joint will pull into the socket.

The written guarantee states s if had dog has a major defect, and you decide to keep the dog half of the purchase price will be refunded.
I don’t believe she’s going to do that.

Unfortunately this is not the only issue I had with this breeder. I’ll give a quick back story of how I got the puppy.

In March 2012 I had to put my old golden down a couple weeks shy of her fifteenth birthday it was really tough to put her down so I decided I would wait a year before getting another dog.

That summer in June my dad passed away from cancer, my mom had a lot to deal with (she also has rheumatoid arthritis) so I said as a Christmas gift I would treat her to a trip to Florida.

I would do a charter fishing trip, and she could visit with some cousins she grew up with that had retired down in Florida
She hasn’t seen them in years. I would also take her to Busch gardens.

Start of February 2013 I decided I would start to look at golden breeders; I selected three that I liked.
After looking to see that all there litters were spoken for I thought I had better get on a waiting list because it could be a while before I could get a pup.

This breeder emailed me back and said she has a puppy available that was thirteen weeks old. 

The breeder is very finicky about vaccinations and believes they shouldn’t be done until after four months or later if possible.
She indicates I should hold off on any vaccinations.

I mentioned that I was leaving in about two weeks for a vacation in Florida, and was really looking for a pup latter in the year.
I would look at the dog if she would agree to board it for me when I was away on vacation.
I told her I do not feel comfortable taking a puppy for two weeks then shoving her in a boarding facility to be on her own. I would prefer her to be in surroundings she is familiar with.
Also the dog is unvaccinated I wouldn’t be able to board her without getting some shots for her.

She said that’s no problem, and would board it for free.
So I ended up taking the pup.

Five days before I leave I email the breeder when can I bring the pup over.
She wouldn’t take the pup back, and suggested I leave it with friends. That’s a big request of a friend to drop off a puppy that is not house broken, and you will need to get up several times in the night to let her do her business in February.

So now I have an unvaccinated puppy with no one to send her to. I eventually ended up having to cancel the vacation and will reschedule for later this year.

I ended up taking a loss on the hotel rooms, car some of my charter fee, and I can use my plan tickets if I use them within a year of when I scheduled the trip for about $100.

Total I lost around $1000.

She’s not necessarily a bad breeder, but she does seem to be a dishonest business person.
Should I out who she is?


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

D_IN_GR said:


> She’s not necessarily a bad breeder, but she does seem to be a dishonest business person.
> Should I out who she is?


Obviously, many of us would be curious as to whether this is someone we know or have heard of in Golden world. It also tends to turn out in these situations that the breeder in question is not actually as respected and reputable as the OP thinks (no offense intended to you, but some bad breeders are very good at talking the talk without walking the walk). It's unlikely that somebody treated you dishonestly over the money but was totally honest over the breeding practices.

However, you have to decide whether you want to burn those bridges. Having called her dishonest, adding her real identity to the story pretty much makes it impossible for you to have a working relationship going forward. If she really is an experienced breeder, she may be able to offer help and support in the future. There also might be half the purchase price available here to help offset the medical costs, and it would surely be harder—if not impossible—to arrive amicably at an agreement over that money if you give her identity here.

My advice is to consider very carefully whether you want to wade into the potential firestorm of leveling serious accusations of dishonesty in a public forum. If you have stuck 100% to the facts, you're relatively safe from legal retribution, but you will still be burning some serious bridges.

And if you've exaggerated or name-called anywhere (I haven't reviewed your posts to look for that), you might have crossed the line into libel, which would be serious if you then added her real identity to the mix.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

PS - if you have a written guarantee for half the purchase price in the event of a major medical problem, there probably isn't anything that fits the bill better than such a young diagnosis of symptomatic HD. I would go after the money if I were you. This process is going to be expensive enough as it is.


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

tippykayak said:


> PS - if you have a written guarantee for half the purchase price in the event of a major medical problem, there probably isn't anything that fits the bill better than such a young diagnosis of symptomatic HD. I would go after the money if I were you. This process is going to be expensive enough as it is.


 
I kept the summary of events kind of brief, but all our corresponance was by email so I do have everything in writing.

Actually I don't plan on engaging with her again I was just wondering if this went to the level where I should out her.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

I got a little confused. You said you weren't able to get the TPO at MSU. Does that mean your looking elsewhere for it? I apologize if you said it and I just didn't comprehend it. 

I agree with Tippy regarding not burning bridges. Just be careful and think through the allegations before posting them on a very public forum. Once spoken, words can never be taken back and I can guarantee if the breeder isn't a member here, word will still somehow get back to her.... Cause that just seems to be how it happens. 


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

tippykayak said:


> Obviously, many of us would be curious as to whether this is someone we know or have heard of in Golden world. It also tends to turn out in these situations that the breeder in question is not actually as respected and reputable as the OP thinks (no offense intended to you, but some bad breeders are very good at talking the talk without walking the walk). It's unlikely that somebody treated you dishonestly over the money but was totally honest over the breeding practices.


I agree with Tippy on this. My curiosity is certainly peaked especially since you've stated previously that this breeder was recommended by the forum. Though I do wonder since the forum makes no formal recommendation & instead its members do, I wonder just what kind of recommendation was made and was it a "drive-by" poster. I'm not aware of breeders being recommended who require return of the pup for a full refund or refund limited to half if you keep the pup as we know most people are going to be bonded to the pup & wouldn't dream of returning the pup. I typically see those types of statements in guarantees from breeders who are counting on people not to return the pup.

I do hope you're able to get your pup in to MSU for treatment and then get on the road to recovery & back to being a carefree golden.


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

Brave said:


> I got a little confused. You said you weren't able to get the TPO at MSU. Does that mean your looking elsewhere for it? I apologize if you said it and I just didn't comprehend it.
> 
> I agree with Tippy regarding not burning bridges. Just be careful and think through the allegations before posting them on a very public forum. Once spoken, words can never be taken back and I can guarantee if the breeder isn't a member here, word will still somehow get back to her.... Cause that just seems to be how it happens.
> 
> ...


Yeah the vet that does the TPO is out this week, and booked solidly until July.
The scheduling office said the only way I could get in was if my vet spoke to him, and he was willing to bump a booking.

He apprently was on site yesterday doing surgeries so my vet was trying to see if she could get him to move another apponitment to get her in.

I haven't heard anything from my vet yet; so she may have gotten her in or she could be looking at other orthipedist.

Here is the x ray looks like its just the left side that is bad. I wonder if a hip replacement for the left side would work for her.












As far as the breeder I think she is aware of this thread. She is a fairly popular breeder I won't say who has recommended her on this site it would probably be an easy guess who it is then.

I think I'll just drop the breeder subject.


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## Mayve (Aug 21, 2012)

If it was me....I think I would keep the name confidential as far as outing her publicly. But if I came across someone asking about her I would senzd them a pm with your experience....just make sure to stick with only the facts and let them decide! 

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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

You could post your pup in K9data with the hip issue noted; I would also follow-up with OFA to have an official record of the diagnosis maintained to help anyone else doing their research. While clearances aren't an absolute guarantee, being able to see what's being produced and if there are any trends are certainly helpful to breeders and future puppy buyers in making decisions.


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## njoyqd (Oct 20, 2012)

Hi there, 

FWIW, our Phoebe had total hip replacement (THR) at seven months. 
She was evaluated by an orthopedic surgeon and had her surgery the next day. Time really was of the essence as her femur /hip was out of socket and she was in pain. 

We recently had her 6 mo check up. She has made a full recovery and is doing well. 
I have no recourse with her BYB so am looking at this as a rescue. For, we certainly rescued her. The initial surgery was 5K. With subsequent visits, rehab, meds, and X-rays we are looking at about 7K plus. 

As you know, it is discouraging when you discover your sweet pup has to face major surgery at such a young age. They give us so much unconditional love and devotion. 
I was a wreck before Phoebe's surgery. As difficult as it was for both of us I would not hesitate to do it again. Seeing her able to run and play again has made it worth every penny.
I wish you and your girl all the best.
Dale


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## honeysmum (Dec 4, 2007)

Honey has had THR on both hips first March 2012 and then her second Feb this year she was given the all clear on her 2nd operation a few weeks ago same as njoyqd I was a wreak with the first and not a whole lot better with the 2nd but also would absolutely do it again Honey is a different girl, she was diagnosed at 7 months but it was only at 4 years of age it was apparent that it was causing her problems.
I haven't read the whole thread but hope you have had some good advice so you can make an informed decision I will be thinking of you.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

D_IN_GR said:


> Actually I don't plan on engaging with her again I was just wondering if this went to the level where I should out her.


Sure! Why not if you have nothing to lose?


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

My vet called today, and was able to get an appointment for with the orthopedic vet next week Thursday so hopefully he will be able to work her in for surgery quickly.

I thought for a THR they had to wait until the dog was full grown; so that might be an option as well.


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

Probably shouldn't post this let the breeder thing die


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

D_IN_GR said:


> Probably shouldn't post this let the breeder thing die


Totally understand. Totally now that I know


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

D_IN_GR said:


> Anyone believe that spaying a dog at six months would cause severe hip dysplasia?
> 
> The breeder wanted to see the x-ray but after I sent her an email that the vet aid took a look at the radiologist report and he agreed it was a severe case of hip dysplasia; she then sends me links about spaying a dog will cause this.


I truly do not believe an owner can cause HD. I think it can be made worse by our decisions, but severe HD is in the genetics. 

However, if the breeder did due diligence, sometimes mother nature is just stronger. In our breed, a certain percentage of goldens will have HD and ED despite best efforts and clean pedigrees. 

I had a pup with severe ED who had all parents and grandparents Elbows Normal. It ran in the litter and in the line thereafter. It was no one's fault. The breeder, Topbrass, did return the pup's full purchase price along with a thank you note for loving her, getting her prompt medical care, and seeing her through the bilateral big surgery. She looked at the xrays, had them sent to OFA, and discussed the case with the orthopedic surgeon, and later spayed the mom. I felt that was more than a great response to the problem. 

I do not like it when owners are made to feel they did something wrong. Spaying the pup did not cause severe HD. I would expect the breeder to return the purchase price either to you or into the vet bill for the surgery to make things more right, even though it seems it is no one's fault and something that does happen when dealing with living beings.


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

Ljilly28 said:


> I truly do not believe an owner can cause HD. I think it can be made worse by our decisions, but severe HD is in the genetics.
> 
> However, if the breeder did due diligence, sometimes mother nature is just stronger. In our breed, a certain percentage of goldens will have HD and ED despite best efforts and clean pedigrees.
> 
> ...


 



I agree I don't believe she is turning a blind eye to the HD diagnoses out of greed.

I think she more feels this is a knock against her as a breeder, and is more of a ego thing.

I believe this is a one off but there should be definite caution when using the breeding pair that produced the puppy.

I think refunding the money is more of a admission there was a problem with a dog she bred, and that doesn't sit well with her.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

This rep breeder in the very least should do everything That Ljilly28 mentioned. She should have never put the blame on you. I would at least pursue the refund and post the diagnoses in K9 data. Ego or not she can't hide behind the facts. And future puppy buyers need to know the truth. Especially since she is highly recommended.


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

Wyatt's mommy said:


> This rep breeder in the very least should do everything That Ljilly28 mentioned. She should have never put the blame on you. I would at least pursue the refund and post the diagnoses in K9 data. Ego or not she can't hide behind the facts. And future puppy buyers need to know the truth. Especially since she is highly recommended.


I may after I've gotten my baby taken care of, but right now I've got bigger fish to fry.

Hate the thought of see her in pain.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

D_IN_GR said:


> I may after I've gotten my baby taken care of, but right now I've got bigger fish to fry.
> 
> Hate the thought of see her in pain.


Ahhh she is a beauty!


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

My heart and thoughts are with you and your baby.  

Do we have a date for surgery yet? I forgot if it was already mentioned. 


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Duplicate post.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Duplicate post.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

D_IN_GR said:


> I may after I've gotten my baby taken care of, but right now I've got bigger fish to fry.
> 
> Hate the thought of see her in pain.


 
Ahhh she is such a cutie!


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

D_IN_GR said:


> I may after I've gotten my baby taken care of, but right now I've got bigger fish to fry.
> 
> Hate the thought of see her in pain.


 
Ahhh she is such a cutie!


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

delete............


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

Ok that was just weird. I tried to delete the multiple posts but got the spin cycle instead.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Dude! Me too!!!! Hahaha!!!


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## Artnlibsmom (May 8, 2013)

Oh what a beautiful baby, she is certainly a gorgeous girl


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

Brave said:


> My heart and thoughts are with you and your baby.
> 
> Do we have a date for surgery yet? I forgot if it was already mentioned.
> 
> ...


I see the doc next week Thursday. I'll cut her food off the night before if he agrees she's a candidate for a TPO I'm going to say ahem... why are you talking to me and not scrubbing up :


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

D_IN_GR said:


> I see the doc next week Thursday. I'll cut her food off the night before if he agrees she's a candidate for a TPO I'm going to say ahem... why are you talking to me and not scrubbing up :


Lol!!!!!!

The clinic we're doing Bear's TTA or TPLO at asked if we wanted to schedule surgery for the same day when I called to make the consult appointment. I declined because I didn't think we'd be doing the surgery that day. Lol. We have to wait until Bear's a year old before we can fix his ACL.  


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

Brave said:


> Lol!!!!!!
> 
> The clinic we're doing Bear's TTA or TPLO at asked if we wanted to schedule surgery for the same day when I called to make the consult appointment. I declined because I didn't think we'd be doing the surgery that day. Lol. We have to wait until Bear's a year old before we can fix his ACL.
> 
> ...


That's nerve wracking you know your baby has a problem, but you can only play the waiting game.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

D_IN_GR said:


> That's nerve wracking you know your baby has a problem, but you can only play the waiting game.


Yea. We do everything in our power right now. And that is all I can ask of myself.  but I can't wait to see Bear run again. 


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## D_IN_GR (May 16, 2013)

Wyatt's mommy said:


> Ahhh she is such a cutie!


You can say that again


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

D_IN_GR said:


> You can say that again


Hehe!:........


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## humanrescuesdog (Mar 6, 2013)

By the way, if any of you are interested, I've written a blog post on our experiences with TPO, especially in the post-operative period and includes links to useful resources.

The link is:
Triple Pelvic Osteotomy - It's Hip! - Human Rescues Dog

Hope it helps and good luck


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## Ylan's Mom (May 14, 2013)

Sorry to hear about it,.... and congrats on keeping her! My fur angel was diagnosed at 4 months. We stared on cosequin right away. Always watched her weight and took her swimming whenever we could. Surgery wasnt an accesible option as a pup and as she got older she remained stable. Only had a cuple ofcrisis that were treated with adequan in the last couple of years. We also did natural supplements and soft massages. She lived happy13 1/2 years, I loved every single day with her. Best to you both...


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