# Chiricahua Retrievers



## Journeydog (Jan 2, 2012)

Opinion of this breeder?


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

I find them very lacking. Only health clearance mentioned is hips. They state they send in hip xrays on all their breeding stock but I only find two Goldens in the database with the prefix " Chiricahua." Maybe some of their dogs are from other kennels but I see mention of "5th generation".
I would look elsewhere personally.


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## Journeydog (Jan 2, 2012)

Thanks for your advice. 

When I look at their website, the tie to a Phoenix 'store' pops out and says 'puppy-mill' to me. Maybe I'm wrong? The prime reason I even considered looking at them is because they're only about 100 or so miles from me.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Have you looked here and contacted these clubs?

Litters - Valle del Sol Golden Retriever Club - Arizona Golden Retrievers

or


*Palo Verde GRC* 
Liz Borozan
3460 No. Houghton Rd., Tucson, AZ 85749
( 520 ) 760-2220


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

The fact that they state on their page that they would do free delivery of a christmas gift puppy if you call by 3 am turned me off, just to start with.

Actually what grabbed my attention on this thread was the name, my Flip's daddy was named Chiricahua - Chiri for short. Loved ya Chiri :smooch:


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## hvgoldens4 (Nov 25, 2009)

Their website really has no information about them or their dogs. Even when scrolling through photos of adult dogs, there are no real names. Just things like "father to many" and "mother of so and so".

As Ambika stated there are only 2 of their dogs listed on the OFA website. One has a hip and elbow clearance and the other only a hip clearance. A little disconcerting given the fact that they have 22 different photos of adult dogs and none of them are repeated as the same dog.

Another thing that I found rather disturbing is that the mother to those 2 dogs that they have listed on the OFA webiste was 9.5 years old when she had them. I just cannot fathom doing that to one of my girls. The first litter was born in 2000 and the litter with their 2 dogs with clearances listed was born in 2007. 

Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

Many of the not so desirable breeders will list catch phrases like " we gaurantee our dogs health", "we do recommended clearances", "we are members of" the OFA or AKC or whatever and none of which you can be a member. They do this to try to make it look like they are reputable breeders but there is no substance there to back up their claims for such things. Among the other issues that people have already stated about them, it also says on their website that they comply with AKC regulations for DNA for their sires. Well, if you don't, then you can't register their offspring. So, it is kind of a no-brainer to me that someone will comply with this. 

As others have said, a "no go" for me.


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## SummerInMyHeart (Mar 7, 2010)

Here's an opinion from someone who has brought home three beautiful golden's from Chiricahua Retrievers. They are GREAT! You don't even know until you make the drive out to their large farm in rural arizona. There is not one ounce of "puppy mill" at this place. The family is wonderful and care deeply about all of the dogs and about maintaining the integrity of their breeding program. I still keep in touch with Sharon and she's always asking about my "girls". 

I can tell you that the family has deep convictions that limit their internet use and exposure so if their website appears to be a little slow or outdated, it's because they do more with their lives than sit in front of a flashing box all day. 

I highly recommend this breeder. I have referred three other families who have made the trip to Wilcox and brought home their beautiful, well bred dogs. 

Please do your own homework.


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

(((Grabbing a coffee, sitting back, ready to watch the show))):--keep_silent:


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Please know that everyone here is happy that you love your dogs.
We all love our individual dogs....
At one time or another, many of us have owned dogs that were not bred using the best breeding practices...

There is a differences between loving the dog laying at our feet and evaluating a breeder.

Sometimes when evaluating a breeders breeding practices, we learn information that stings....

Know that they are not posted to devalue the love you have for your dog...they are posted to illustrate where the breeding practices that the breeder uses are lacking in the most basic measures..


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Do you want to learn more about your dogs and your breeder?


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## SummerInMyHeart (Mar 7, 2010)

lhowemt said:


> (((Grabbing a coffee, sitting back, ready to watch the show))):--keep_silent:


I'm sorry, why?


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Glad to hear you are happy with Madi. I hope she has a long happy, healthy life.

You will find on the forum we tend to be supportive of rescue or Reputable breeders that follow the Code of Ethics of the breed club in their country in this case the US, including health testing for the core 4 health clearances. We are very passionate about this topic. Please know that we love all Goldens no matter their origin. Just because we can not support a particular breeder does not mean we do not support you or Madi. 

this is not a breeder that I would or could recommend. Although I am sure they are lovely folks, they are not doing the health testing they should. I counted what appears to be 21 different Goldens and only two show any clearances on OFFA at all and even those are not complete. The clearances are posted by OFFA after being mailed in, so even someone with no computer access or skills should have then verifiable on line if they are doing them. 

There really is no standard legal definition of "puppy mill". What you do see here is the breeding of dogs with out clearances or complete clearances, the dogs are not proven in any way (conformation, obedience, tracking, rally, dock diving...etc.), fathers of litters are usually the same dog. Based solely on their posts there were at least 9 litters in 2013. I find that to be a high volume operation and IMO profit driven.

There are breeders in Arizona who do all the required testing, have competition tested dogs who are charging 350-650 more and that is for generations of full clearances.


Edit: revisit of their site did show that they share the registered names and numbers for all Goldens in their photo section. Review of the dogs did indicate that one dog was fully health tested though his heart clearance was deficient as it was by a practitioner not a cardiologist. It was a dog from earlier I their history, so they are aware of the additional testing and choose not to do it or properly record it as they did in the past for this one dog. Some dogs have hips and elbows, some only hips. This lack is concerning as it indicates they either do not test all their dogs the same or the clearance is missing due to failure. Considering these dogs tend to be direct descendants or siblings it is very concerning.


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams (Feb 13, 2011)

Looking through their website now (as this was an old thread).. None of the goldens seem to have their kennel name ( Chiricahua) while clicking on the pictures. I have not looked through all of them yet, but the few I have do have some clearances but not all four. They do produce alot of pups (they breed labs too). They do not appear to compete with their dogs, instead they rely too heavily on past dogs accomplishments. I am sure they are very nice people. However, they do cut corners. It is all nice and good they do hips (sometimes elbows/eyes) but what happens when one of them has a heart condition and your dog/pup has it..it is hereditary..obvisously they realize the importance of hip clearances, they do go online, as they have a website, it is inexcusable to not know other clearances should be getting done IMO. This has nothing to do with you personally as a person or owner of your pup. We are here to educate, inform to give potential new owners the best information about what we are seeing. Now if you have something to dispute some of these claims, i.e. clearances done but not sent in like the heart and eye clearances technically dont have to be, then we may be rushing to judgement. However, still does not help the fact that they do a high volume of breedings, they do breed some of their females pretty late (saw one that was almost 8.. I wouldnt do that) and they dont compete with them. I believe their are better choices out there. I wish you an your pup the best life together, healthy and happy. Stay and learn more what we are talking about!


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

SummerInMyHeart said:


> it's because they do more with their lives than sit in front of a flashing box all day.


And since you are so familiar with this breeder can you enlighten as to what exactly it is they are doing with their dogs. Training for field, conformation, obedience/rally, agility, tracking...?
Or were you implying that those who gave opinions in this thread just "sit in front of a flashing box all day"?





SummerInMyHeart said:


> Please do your own homework.



I believe that by asking questions, asking for input and educating oneself is PART of "doing your own homework".


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

SummerInMyHeart said:


> I'm sorry, why?


Historically, when a puppy buyer is shown that their breeder chose not to do the basic minimum of health testing for their puppy - the puppy that they adore - it hurts their feelings and they tend to lash out...

Then more information is revealed and the disbelief deepens...Historically they refuse to believe....

Refusing to believe that anyone could, or would, dupe them...take advantage of them in such a way...especially when it is the health and welfare of the dog that they love...

That anyone would portray themselves as loving the breed, and wanting to sell them the best puppy possible, but not choosing to do the bare minimum to contribute to the safety of the breed and the individual dogs/puppies they produce over many many years can be a sad wake up call....

You wouldnt be the first to be angry with the information that is pointed out to you...

If you want to learn more about your breeder...you can post your dogs pedigree information (AKC registered name and registration number)....including her parents information...with that information it is easy to check the public databases....


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

SummerInMyHeart said:


> I'm sorry, why?


What LibertyME said.

And sometimes it has seemed as though the "breeder" has come on, defending themselves, but posing as a puppy owner. I bet my comment was a bit crass, I meant no offense and apologize. Evaluation of a breeder is not personal, and I hope you don't take it that way about your choice or your sweet pup.


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## mlruth (Dec 24, 2013)

Hi!
I am posting a response to your concern with Chiricahua Retrievers. My family has had one dog from them (Logan), who had a severe heart murmur and died at 3. We knew he wasn't going to have a long life, with my parents both being MD's they were aware of the situation. We gave him the best life he could have had and loved him more than anything. He was my boy and the best boy. I then got older and am 22 now and have my own golden retriever from them. I loved our past one so much and wanted to have my own dog. They were kind and offered us half off another dog if we were to ever come back and want one again. I took them up on that offer and now have Sampson. He is the best boy I could ask for. So pretty, sweet, and playful. I have not looked into the hip concern but my parents have trusted them as breeders. The only concern is valley fever. There is no way to ever know, but Logan had valley fever with his heart murmur, possibly because of his already weakened immune system and Sampson had a low positive titer in May 2013, I picked up on it right away and started treating him. It is now December 2013 and he is at the lowest positive value a titer can be which pretty much means it is gone. I will take him off the meds in Feb 2014 and test him at the end of next summer to make sure it isn't returning. So, to the main point, their dogs may have weakened immune systems for whatever reason and may be more susceptible to valley fever, but there is no way to know for sure. Just speaking from the dogs we have had and do have from them. But I wouldn't trade Sampson who is almost 2 years and wouldn't have traded Logan for anything. Such beautiful golden's from them. I love Sampson with all my heart and so far he is doing great (except for the valley fever he had but has now over come). I also have a friend who has a dog from them they love so much who is over 10 years I believe. I question their recent price increase from $975 to $1175 or something, that seems quite too high now and wonder why they did it. 
I would recommend dogs from them, they are very reputable and a very nice family, always there and willing to help, have lots of land for the dogs and take good care of them. And you will fall in love with a puppy you get from them.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

To me, being "very reputable" means a breeder that doesn't scrimp on doing the bare MINIMUM clearances as recommended by the GRCA. It also means they're accomplishing more than just breeding with their dogs. While clearances aren't a 100% guarantee, they certainly do stack the odds in favor of the pup. Sad to see young goldens dropping dead from heart issues that most likely they would have not had provided the breeders were adequately screening the dogs being bred. No owner deserves the heartache and no golden deserves to come into this world only to have his/her life cut short due to the negligence of the people bringing them into the world. Simply inexcusable.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

That is odd. I have never seen someone give a thumbs up to a breeder they acknowledge has a health problem and suspects another. Heart mummers that lead to death are a issue found in Goldens. So much of an issue that the national breed club charged with the protection of our breed has placed a heart clearance done by a cardiologist in the Code of Ethics as part of the core four tests for breeding dogs. To loose a dog at 3, about 1/5th of its life expectancy should not be normal. 
Then to sign up for more potential heart break at half the cost only to feel that the dog has an immune isuue. To discuss that you feel they are over priced and to then say you would recommend them? I am so confussed. 

As I stated before, I would not recommend them.:no: Literally for a few hundred dollars more you could buy a puppy from a reputable breeder who is competing with there dogs, doing all the core four health testing on parents who have generations of health testing behind them. They are also nice folks. Nice does not make a reputable breeder, ethics and commitment to breed does.


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## RiverRat (Oct 3, 2007)

First, I am not here to bash Chiricahua, but simply to share my experience. They are very nice people who breed beautiful dogs. We purchased our Molly from them and she was the greatest dog I have ever had the opportunity to love. As mentioned in a prior owner's post, our girl also had Valley Fever. She survived, but for awhile it was pretty scary as she was just a young pup when she had it. She could have inhaled the spores anywhere and there is no way of knowing whether or not she got it while at their farm or on one of the many hikes I took her on. 

Sadly, we lost our girl almost 3 weeks ago from disseminated histiocytic sarcoma, a very aggressive cancer that only gave us 88 days with her after her diagnosis. She was five weeks shy of turning 7 years old. 

It has yet to be determined definitively if this disease is hereditary, and we all know that Goldens are prone to many types of cancer, but I wanted to post this so that this information is available to anyone doing their research. 

We are absolutely crushed and heartbroken. We miss her so much and wonder if this immense hole in our hearts will ever heal. It was way to soon to lose such an amazing girl   My heart hurts every day without her.


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## Goldieguy (Aug 12, 2017)

I would NEVER recommend this breeder to anyone, not even my worst enemy. The pup we got there came to us heavily infested with very treatment resistant Giardia and Coxcidia. The breeder takes zero responsibility for the dog's condition.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

And at least those things can be treated. When a breeder doesn't do the bare minimum to prevent problems w hearts, joints, eyes- much less the "bugs" they can be growing, they do not get a thumbs up here...but there is always someone, whether the breeder themselves posing as a buyer or a buyer, who comes on and says we are wrong in our assessment of the breeding program. This breeder (today) does not have full clearances on any of their breeding animals. I'm sorry for your difficulties, both are associated with stinky poop and poor puppy is probably even more stressed due to his potty issues.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Orthopedic Foundation for Animals sire of current litter. Can't find the dam. But I would never risk that hip history.


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