# Pulling on leash for different family members?



## mamabear (May 17, 2011)

This isn't _quite_ worthy of it's own thread, but I have a question...

My 12wo Bess is in puppy classes. For 2 weeks, we've been mindfully working on loose-leash walking...but the only person that she walks nicely with is my 7yo daughter!!  She may do well with the other children, too (15, 8 and 5), but I've only witnessed my daughter walking her on leash.

I took Bess for a walk with my daughter (C), and Bess was pulling ahead of me so strongly and for so long that my arm got sore. C asked if she could walk Bess and I handed her the leash. She moved to Bessie's right and started walking...and Bessie stayed right next to her! 

​Don't get me wrong - I'm really glad that she is so sweet while walking with C, but why is she pulling _me_? I am the leader, dagnabbit!​


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## silental (Jun 29, 2011)

Seems like there might have been something in the training classes that Bess "got" with your 7 y/o that she didn't "get" with the others. I'm interested to hear the answers of those more knowledgeable. Hope you get it resolved.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> I am the leader, dagnabbit!


But that's not how dogs see their people. Especially goldens. 

It could be your daughter is lower to your puppy's level and is your puppy's littermate - somebody your puppy really wants to be with. And goldens of all ages love little kids.

If you are very strict with the puppy or not as much fun, that's why the puppy might be less responsive or pulling away. 

The other thing is if your little girl was walking ahead of you, your puppy might be trying to catch up to her...


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## mamabear (May 17, 2011)

Megora said:


> But that's not how dogs see their people. Especially goldens.
> 
> It could be your daughter is lower to your puppy's level and is your puppy's littermate - somebody your puppy really wants to be with. And goldens of all ages love little kids.
> 
> ...


You know, it really seems artificial that I portray myself as The Leader, but I really am the person who keeps her...I feed her, I train her, I take her outside, I quietly clean up messes (whether housetraining fails or toy massacres), I teach the children what I learn in class, she sleeps with me, etc. I've never taken this 'Leader' role very seriously (I just never felt the need with my sweet Kelly), but it's been a long time since I've had a puppy and I really want to do this right! So, I thought that if I was so active in her little life, she'd want to please...me. Is that unrealistic?

And, Meg - I'm not strict (at all), but I'm also not a pushover. I tend to be a quiet force, whether with my partner, my kids, or my dogs. While I was walking with C and Bess, I thought it would be a good idea to have C walk to my right, so it was us three girls owning the width of the sidewalk. When I felt Bess pulling, I would put her into a Sit and love on her/treat her and then we'd walk again. 10 steps later, we're in another Sit, because her pulling disrupted the walk again. When C had the leash, I was to C's right and Bess walked beautifully for her. Again, I'm grateful, but what gives?!? 

One thing that the kids do that I don't is that they play 'chase' with her. They run around in circles in the house, and usually Bessie catches up to them and bites their rears or grabs a skirt and rips it, etc. The child squeals, I come in to break it up, and everyone is re-directed. That's really the only way that I can think of now that my behavior with her is different than the kids'.

What am I doing wrong here? Please tell me, because I truly don't know! :doh:


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## silental (Jun 29, 2011)

Sounds like you're the "alpha dog"...no question...but someone earlier may have nailed it...when saying Bess might be trying to catch up to her "counterparts" when you're walking her.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Pulling on the leash has got little to do with "alphaness". You might just be a little boring to C. Cosmo will happily prance alongside a stranger, but will be off pulling and smelling when it's just us unless I'm reinforcing. He also couldn't care less about me when he was little and I was with him all day - I was not exciting and not his play buddy. Not all dogs are that way but some are. 

How do you teach loose leash walking? Some dogs really practice avoidance if you use leash corrections.

I just noticed that I'm essentially just rephrasing Kate...


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## mamabear (May 17, 2011)

jackie_hubert said:


> How do you teach loose leash walking? Some dogs really practice avoidance if you use leash corrections.


I don't use corrections (I don't think). She is on my left and there is no slack in the leash unless she stays right next to me. Otherwise it is taught. When she starts pulling a bit, I keep the leash taught...when she starts pulling a lot, I have her sit and reconnect with her, whether it's loving on her or having her lay down and treating her. During the walk, we practice Watch Me and treat. I notice that she watches me when I don't ask her to, and she knows to sit when I stop, so something is sinking in! 

Jackie, is this a good method? This is what the trainer has trained me to do...

Maybe I don't play enough.  I thought I was doing alright, but I could work on that more, I suppose.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

jackie_hubert said:


> I just noticed that I'm essentially just rephrasing Kate...


And saying it much clearer than I did. 

@mamabear, maybe I came on a bit strongly. I just... when I hear people say something about being the alpha leader or whatever, it generally means that they are focusing more on asserting their authority over the dog and laying down the law and not necessarily being a well rounded partner. And that's generally what I think a perfect relationship with your dog is - you are partners and friends. That means a lot of play sessions with your puppy (hide and seek in the house and tag come eat my hair were my favorite games with Jacks). That means stopping every ten or twenty steps on walks to goose your puppy and kiss him to pieces. A huge part of training should feel like playing to your puppy. 

If my dog looks up at me, he does it because he knows I will go NUTS praising him. Or I will do my favorite hug walking (I put my hand down to hold his face against my leg as we keep walking). 

I do think that right now your puppy isn't pulling with your daughter because it is a new thing and your daughter is her playmate and likely to do something unexpected and fun. If your daughter walks your puppy every single day as you have, I'll wager that she may start to pull. 

The thing that I would appreciate if in your position is the fact that as of right now your puppy can be handled by your daughter. Your training the puppy will hopefully keep it that way as your puppy goes through her next growth spurt and will really start pulling. You don't want your children to be hauled down and hurt. 

Keep up the training - and have fun and love that puppy to pieces. They are little and cute for only a short time.

ETA - I just thought of something that all of us who go to dog class experience. It's what happens when the instructor or somebody else takes the leash and trains your dog. And your golden will dance on his head just to please that instructor.


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## mamabear (May 17, 2011)

Thanks, Kate. I didn't think you were coming on strongly at all, really. I don't like the 'alpha' term or mentality at all. I used the word 'leader' for lack of a better one. What I meant was that since I am the one that does all of this for her...essentially her partner, yes...why doesn't she want to walk nicely with me? :

Maybe where I'm going wrong is with the seriousness during work time. I don't really play much until it's clear that she's done working, you know? Should I break up the work sessions more and incorporate more playtime during work? Am I doing the right thing when she starts to pull by sitting and treating her? Am I confusing her - letting her know that if she pulls me, she gets loving and goodies?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Maybe where I'm going wrong is with the seriousness during work time. I don't really play much until it's clear that she's done working, you know? Should I break up the work sessions more and incorporate more playtime during work? Am I doing the right thing when she starts to pull by sitting and treating her? Am I confusing her - letting her know that if she pulls me, she gets loving and goodies?


I'm rushing out to walk my dog right now (trying to wake up after zombie-ing in front of River Monsters all day : ), so it's pretty tough giving you a quick clear answer without knowing exactly how you train or exactly what you expect. And without knowing your dog. 

Training should be fun for both you and your dog. That why some people incorporate toys and treats into the training - it's all to make the dogs look forward to the training. So when you say it's time to go play and your dog comes running like it's dinner time. And in some cases they get enough treats for presenting good behaviors it might as well be dinner time. 

And you are rewarding your dogs with play, praise, treats, and toys every time your dog presents the right behavior. So like a good example would be if your dog is walking nice, capture that and praise it. Tell her "what a good walk" or whatever your word for walking on a loose lead. 

It's not just rewarding your dog for sitting next to you. It's just like when your dog does a good watch and you praise her and reward her right then. If your dog is relaxed and walking at your side, make the most of it when that happens.

And most importantly - remember that your dog is only a baby. It's going to get worse before it gets better.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

I just wrote a long post but it got lost in cyberspace.

For training play working games! Check out crate games DVD. Or play find it or do some tracking in the grass.

For walking, you have the right idea. Try this exercise, a lot, first in low distraction areas then go from there: 






On a walk, ask her to come back your side before moving. Reward whenever she's by your side or when she looks back at you at first. Feed her whole meal that way. Then teward only for very good behaviour or at certain intervals but stay below threshold.


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## mamabear (May 17, 2011)

Jackie, I wrote a short post and it was lost, too! 

Just wanted to thank you ladies for the helpful advice. I'll pop in after a couple of days...


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## mamabear (May 17, 2011)

Not really related to leash walking, but...

I just wanted to pop in here (because we had talked about my play level with Bess) and admit what I caught myself doing _just yesterday_... :curtain:

I was laying on the floor with Bessie and we were playing with the tennis ball. I was fully engaged with B - thought Kelly (my 12yo pup) was asleep in the other room. Kelly must have heard the ball bounce (it is her favorite thing in the whole wide world) and she came shuffling in to the room, and I immediately felt...awkward (?) for playing with Bessie, like I was 'cheating' on Kelly somehow. :uhoh: 

I have been so worried about Kelly feeling left out that I don't play with Bessie in front of her. If I play with them, I play with them together or with Kelly while Bess naps.

Doesn't that sound ridiculous?!? I'm glad I noticed it, but I'm really embarassed to admit it. But, we can only change for the better what we witness as _needing_ to be changed, right? *sigh*


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## Siques (Aug 9, 2011)

This is the second time I have heard about this in a week - I was watching my friend's 4yo golden last weekend, and took her for several walks. She did not pull at all. When she felt even the slightest pull on her collar so stopped pulling. 

I asked her mom about it and she said that she used to pull when either her and her husband walked her until one day her husband gave the leash to their 4yo son. She didn't pull the leash at all for the son. And she's never pulled on the leash for the parents again! Weird! 

I had a golden that pulled until I tried the gentle leader - it took a few walks, but she stopped pulling and walked nice on a leash from there after.


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## mamabear (May 17, 2011)

She will be 14w on Monday. Is she too young for a GL?

ETA: Nevermind...I'd just rather not use one.

Interesting, though, that you've had the same experience!!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Honestly, I wouldn't burn too much mental energy wondering why. The reality is that it's likely to change in a handful of weeks as Bess becomes bigger and more confident in her surroundings (even if she doesn't appear to lack confidence now).

Make sure your daughter rewards behavior she likes ... and you concentrate on doing the same thing. Try to time your food rewards when the leash *is* loose -- to reward what you want -- rather than set up a pattern of dog pulls > adjusts > then gets the food reward.


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## mamabear (May 17, 2011)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Try to time your food rewards when the leash *is* loose -- to reward what you want -- rather than set up a pattern of dog pulls > adjusts > then gets the food reward.


Good idea, thank you!!


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