# Field Dog - Fronts (Structure)



## SwimDog (Sep 28, 2014)

Maybe this should be elsewhere- always the dilemma of where to post something!

How common are front limb abnormalities - specifically radius/ulna's not being the same length and/or rotated. Structurally, this looks like the toes rotated out and the wrists almost together (...like you picture with bulldogs or shihtzus...). 

http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/saortho/chapter_41/41mast.htm

My 9mo puppy has this problem and I had never heard of in goldens before. I've now come across a few other goldens - all very much field lines (like mine) with the same problem. None super closely related - but all very much field pedigrees.

Is this something that happens but isn't talked about much or not something that anyone would think about? I expect in a field home he would still be worked so maybe it's not something that would be noticed?


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I remember reading about this being a problem in Great Danes. It was the ulna growing faster than the radius, or vise versa. 

What has the breeder said so far about this issue?

When goldens are young, they commonly rotate out their front paws. Since I show my golden, I'm a little more aware of it. When we stack a golden, we rotate their paws forward into the correct position in a dog show. As my girl got older her feet faced forward normally. She feet were out of position until she was probably 15 months or so old. So definitely older than your pup. That positioning didn't change due to my rotating her legs, it was just due to her aging and growing. Maybe also gaining muscle.

So I'm curious if your pup really has a problem, or just hasn't grown into themselves yet? Have you had a real diagnosis from an ortho vet?


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Is that what is called east/west Stacey?


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I want puppies to toe out a little - when their ribs spring, their legs and feet will naturally come back in some making the toeing out a straight foot.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

If it's feet, I'd call it easty-westy. If it's elbows out, I'm not sure what I'd call it. I'd like to see some photos of the dog.

Prism I agree. Lucy finally matured enough and rib spring definitely pushed those toes inward. Totally fine now. Most golden puppies do that.


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## SwimDog (Sep 28, 2014)

My response disappeared as i typed!

We did hear the rib spring thing - but this is way more rotation than that. Ortho vet isn't worried yet wants an xray each month (and a consult...). Sports vet is extremely worried and consulting with other specialists about options. We're on very restricted activity and pain management. Xrays are showing a progression that occasionally looks better but most months is just looking worse (yet not bad enough for surgery. yet?). Breeder is non-responsive on the issue, if I had support I probably would have returned him when this came up by around 12 weeks. But the way things are now, I don't feel it's ethical for me to place him in a pet home until his health is more stable. I'm very disheartened and know I need to start a puppy search again and stop holding out hope that he will magically get better.

Back to my reasons for posting - I'm very curious about how common this is...but it sounds like this extreme either is fairly uncommon and/or easy to miss (especially as dogs are running/working?)?


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I'm sorry- that's a difficult place to be. If his elbows are going out when he moves, would you call that 'moving wide'? I'm still trying to picture it. Moving wide dogs never get a better gait going in my experience.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

The Great Dane lady has some great information on front leg issues, as does Pat Hastings. http://www.greatdanelady.com/

I am so sorry about your puppy, bc the vets seem more worried that if it was a grow-out-of thing. 

Do both parents have straight, strong front legs, strong pasterns, and good feet? 

If so, I would really look at the calcium/ phosphurus ratio in the food, and cut excess protein way down. It is an old timer's trick to use Esther C vitamin, so I am unsure if that is effective or just an old wives tale. 

The situation is so tough, and may of us have been in similar shoes and can empathize with the disappointment and sadness of the pup turning out to have a medical reason he can't be the dog you wanted. I once bought a puppy from Topbrass Goldens in the highest hopes and excitement, but she turned out to have drastic elbow d, and her shoulders were set very oddly onto her body.I did place her into a wonderful home with a close friend( for free of course), and she had a good result from her surgery. It is a painful experience. I have no blame for the breeder as both parents had health clearances and when the mom produced more of it bred to a second stud dog they spayed her responbibly despite her wonderful titles and pedigree. Just my bad luck. I could go on with a few more stories too.

Goldens are not an easy breed to produce healthy, correct pups, and over the years I have found each one who is structurally correct, passes all clearances, has the right temperament and proclivity for the owner's dream of choice- each one is a tiny miracle.

One more thought is FitPaws Pods and the beach are two other ways to stregthen pastersn and tendons( although this sounds like a bone issue??)


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I'm so sorry you are in this position. The breeder should be more responsible and help you. I had a boy with elbow d. When I called his breeder at 20 weeks of age to inform her, she wouldn't call me back. It was very sad. Breeders need to be more open to discussing all issues.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Dou you have a picture?


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