# Oscar and beaver



## Penny & Maggie's Mom

Beavers are SO dangerous to dogs. Please be aware..... http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...iscussion/35994-beavers-danger-your-dogs.html


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## Discoverer

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Beavers are SO dangerous to dogs. Please be aware..... http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...iscussion/35994-beavers-danger-your-dogs.html


That's true, but I saw this beaver were playing in a water with other dogs before let Oscar chase him and it was obvious the beaver and dogs enjoy the company of each other. Oscar plays with this beaver pretty much every day now.


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## Dallas Gold

Beavers do this before killing the intruder. Those encounters are quite violent. I believe a former forum member lost another breed of dog to a beaver attack. I for one would not take that risk. 

In addition:


> Public Health Concerns
> 
> Beavers can be infected with the bacterial disease tularemia. Tularemia is fatal to animals and is transmitted to them by ticks, biting flies, and via contaminated water. Animals with this disease may be sluggish, unable to run when disturbed, or appear tame.
> 
> Tularemia may be transmitted to humans if they drink contaminated water, eat undercooked, infected meat, or allow an open cut to contact an infected animal. The most common source of tularemia for humans is to be cut or nicked by a knife when skinning or gutting an infected animal. Humans can also get this disease via a tick bite, a biting fly, ingestion of contaminated water, or by inhaling dust from soil contaminated with the bacteria.
> 
> A human who contracts tularemia commonly has a high temperature, headache, body ache, nausea, and sweats. A mild case may be confused with the flu and ignored. Humans can be easily treated with antibiotics.
> 
> Beavers are among the few animals that regularly defecate in water, and their droppings (like those of humans and other mammals) may cause a flu-like infection when contaminated water is ingested. The technical name for this illness is “giardiasis.” It is more commonly referred to as “giardia”—derived from giardia, the single-cell protozoan that causes the disease. Another popular term, “beaver fever,” may be a misnomer. It has never been demonstrated that the type of giardia beavers carry causes giardiasis in humans. Giardia has been found in many animal species, including pets, wildlife, and livestock.


source: Beavers - Living with Wildlife | Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife


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## Discoverer

Life is very dangerous, people die from it ...  
You can restrain your dog to the degree that interaction with surroundings is limited to peeing on a grass, sniffing on a leash a neighbor's fence and playing in dog park once a week. I don't want such life for my dog! I am totally aware of all the dangers around us. Oscar came across a bear at least 10 times, chased racoons and coyotes numerous times, encountered a cougar's presence, not to mention all other less threatening creatures he faced over the last two years. I want to assure you, that not even once his life was in real danger. He's a hunting dog and I want to make sure he feels comfortable and CONFIDENT in any situation that life will throw at him. Playing with beaver is a great fun for him and I won't stop him from getting in a water because it can be contaminated with bacterial disease. I actually think we humans ruin the health of our pets by not letting them be fully exposed to surrounding. Our cat is 13 years old and never had any vaccines in her life but nevertheless she is very healthy and active and spent numerous nights in the forest full of coyotes and other predators. Did I take a risk of losing her? You bet! But over all these years she developed survival mechanisms so well, so I am confidently can leave her outdoor overnight. Same with dogs - by exposing them to wild life, they not just learn how to live in harmony with nature, not be afraid of anything, at a same time be cautions and alert in any situation, but also by exposing them to all bacterias, their immune system became very strong and will fight any diseases. There are some diseases that will be difficult to overcome on their own, then we humans will help them. I would rather take a risk of losing my dog and let him live the full life, then make him an indoor pet by fear of getting a disease he could catch outside.


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## Dallas Gold

Discoverer said:


> Life is very dangerous, people die from it ...
> You can restrain your dog to the degree that interaction with surroundings is limited to peeing on a grass, sniffing on a leash a neighbor's fence and playing in dog park once a week. I don't want such life for my dog! I am totally aware of all the dangers around us. Oscar came across a bear at least 10 times, chased racoons and coyotes numerous times, encountered a cougar's presence, not to mention all other less threatening creatures he faced over the last two years. I want to assure you, that not even once his life was in real danger. He's a hunting dog and I want to make sure he feels comfortable and CONFIDENT in any situation that life will throw at him. Playing with beaver is a great fun for him and I won't stop him from getting in a water because it can be contaminated with bacterial disease. I actually think we humans ruin the health of our pets by not letting them be fully exposed to surrounding. Our cat is 13 years old and never had any vaccines in her life but nevertheless she is very healthy and active and spent numerous nights in the forest full of coyotes and other predators. Did I take a risk of losing her? You bet! But over all these years she developed survival mechanisms so well, so I am confidently can leave her outdoor overnight. Same with dogs - by exposing them to wild life, they not just learn how to live in harmony with nature, not be afraid of anything, at a same time be cautions and alert in any situation, but also by exposing them to all bacterias, their immune system became very strong and will fight any diseases. There are some diseases that will be difficult to overcome on their own, then we humans will help them. I would rather take a risk of losing my dog and let him live the full life, then make him an indoor pet by fear of getting a disease he could catch outside.


Good luck to you and your pets, I hope you all survive all these wildlife encounters.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom

As my pet's guardian, I feel a strong belief in giving them experiences that satisfy their need for activity, exploration etc. But I feel just as strongly that my charge is to keep them safe and healthy. JMHO


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## Debles

Dogs are domesticated animals- especially goldens! They love being with people and other dogs. They ARE NOT wild animals!! I would never risk my dogs life out in the wild alone!!! I consider this behavior extreme neglect and abuse. It's like using your dog for bait!!!

My goldens get plenty of exercise playing fetch, swimming, walks, obedience work etc. They most love being with me and my husband. I would never risk their lives!


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## Brave

Debles said:


> Dogs are domesticated animals- especially goldens! They love being with people and other dogs. They ARE NOT wild animals!! I would never risk my dogs life out in the wild alone!!! I consider this behavior extreme neglect and abuse. It's like using your dog for bait!!!
> 
> My goldens get plenty of exercise playing fetch, swimming, walks, obedience work etc. They most love being with me and my husband. I would never risk their lives!


Oscar is not out ALONE. Please check out his photo thread.  His family obviously takes great care with him. I am positive if his parents (sorry OP, Idk your name. Lol!!!) felt he was in danger - they would remove him from the situation. 


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom

With wildlife it's not always so easy. Being on the shore while your dog is drug down into deep water ( a newf at that) by a beaver and drowned doesn't really leave the owner on shore alot they can do. See the above referenced thread.

Reminds me of when my bil was a park ranger in the UP of MI. It became quite the tourist trap to go to the dump and feed the bears. One man took a pic of his wife offering the bear a piece of food... just as it decapitated her. It's WILDlife.... unpredictable and oftentimes dangerous.


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## Dallas Gold

Brave said:


> Oscar is not out ALONE. Please check out his photo thread.  His family obviously takes great care with him. I am positive if his parents (sorry OP, Idk your name. Lol!!!) felt he was in danger - they would remove him from the situation.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Beaver encounters are very violent and there are documented human deaths from beaver attacks. This OP obviously has a higher risk tolerance than the majority of people, who think willingly exposing animals to unpredictable wildlife is not responsible ownership (IMO). The OP can do what he/she wants and risk losing their pet to an untimely demise. I personally think my dogs will be just fine not encountering wildlife and they are just fine without that experience.


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## Brave

Dallas Gold said:


> Beaver encounters are very violent and there are documented human deaths from beaver attacks. This OP obviously has a higher risk tolerance than the majority of people, who think willingly exposing animals to unpredictable wildlife is not responsible ownership (IMO). The OP can do what he/she wants and risk losing their pet to an untimely demise. I personally think my dogs will be just fine not encountering wildlife and they are just fine without that experience.


It is not my intent to create an argument. I understand the dangers wild animals pose to both dogs and people. To be honest - the beaver was not on my high list of dangers (probably because I have never encountered them) and I now know new information for me to utilize with Bear. However, for the person I quoted to flat out call Oscar's life (which they misunderstood a part of) to be extreme neglect and abuse - akin to baiting - is uncalled for. I love the fact that the forum spoke up about the dangers. People (I for one) will know more and be better off for it - but to post an inflammatory response feels uncalled for. Oscar's owners take bigger risks than I am comfortable with - but he says he weighs the risks and that is his choice. Calling it abuse and neglect (when to me at least, it is anything but those things) is out of line, IMO. Of coarse, everyone has their own opinion.... 


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## FeatherRiverSam

I have a difficult time believing that a beaver is willing to "play" with a dog. But that's entirely your call...I just want to make sure other people reading this thread take the time to research the facts before allowing their dogs to play with wild animals.

My personal feeling is most domesticated dogs are not equipped to deal with potentially dangerous wildlife as they been removed from that life style for so many generations. Their genetic predisposition is no longer in tact for these survival skills. The odds aren't stacked in their favor because of this and I personally feel the risk outweighs the reward.

A coyote or a wolf will avoid a rattlesnake...natural selection takes care of that..the ones that didn't are no longer around to breed. Dogs on the other hand haven't had to deal with this on a survival level and the result is dogs just don't know any better.

I'll always stack the odds completely in favor of my dog and that would include not allowing him to interact with potentially dangerous wildlife.


Pete & Woody


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## Dallas Gold

This is the comment in question and it's clearly a personal opinion that this member is entitled to hold:


> I consider this behavior extreme neglect and abuse. It's like using your dog for bait!!!


 Fact is, many of us agree!


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## Discoverer

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Being on the shore while your dog is drug down into deep water ( a newf at that) by a beaver and drowned doesn't really leave the owner on shore alot they can do.


You had to always think ahead and do everything to prevent the situations when you can't do much. As you can see in the video it's a shallow and a small pond without any current and in case of something happens I could reach him in a matter of seconds. If you'll read carefully the article you refereed so much, the dog *"got sucked under the fallen trees"* by strong current, so the real issue with that dog is her poor recall, Quote "* I yelled for them but they ignored me while they pursued a beaver across the creek*"


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## GoldenCamper

Sorry you had to explain your self Discoverer. My dogs and I over the decades have encountered more forms of wildlife than I care to rattle off the species of, including beavers. Fiona got her first tail slap last year hiking on a 5 mile loop with moose and bear tracks about. I have portaged many a beaver dam going up the brooks and steams in our canoe after the brook trout with my dogs in the years gone by.

Just the other day Fiona and I encountered a turkey and a few young ones nesting in the tall grass. Big surprise to me it was but she is trained. I said "leave it" no harm, I could have reached out and touched them.

Tucker and several generations of the red foxes about here had a thing for one another I can't explain. It was a respect. They were like family. Fiona wrestles with some harmless water snakes now and again. Have our share of coyotes too, meh, many people freak out at the sight of one. We sit down and enjoy the day with them, posted about that before. I find their yips and yaps across the river whilst camping at night quite peaceful actually,

Plenty of members here post their stories from Alaska but get no grief. What about the member letting their dogs swim about at 2AM in bear country etc. I suppose it is folks used to the wilds with their dogs that get it and not the city folk. How about the Pudden adventures for instance?

Sorry if that sounds condescending saying "city folk" but many of us choose to live out and about. We can read the situations that come around in a instant and far more prepared for it as our are dogs.

I had one member here ask me once why my super glued together velcro Fiona was on a long line for so long. They have to get it, they have to be trained. Times for fun and times for no I do not think so we know best.

If that Newf was mine that never would have happened, period. Truly sorry for their loss.

I kindly ask you guys stop beating up on the OP. We are there amidst our particular scenarios and you are not. We know our dogs like nothing else in whatever we encounter in the environment and have more sense of what can happen..


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## FeatherRiverSam

Why would a beaver want to play with a dog? One of their biggest predators when on land is the wolf and beaver pups are frequently taken by coyotes. Maybe he knew it was just a silly golden?!?

I personally don't think you're being abusive to your dog but I can see where someone else might. And your point is well made regarding the depth of the water this encounter took place in. Yes the beaver has the true advantage in deeper water but even on land the beaver is more than capable of defending himself and doing some severe damage to the unsuspecting dog.

I just wanted to make it clear that as fun as that sounds...my dog was playing with the beaver it's highly unlikely and people should be aware of that.

JMHO...


Pete & Woody


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## GoldenCamper

FeatherRiverSam said:


> I just wanted to make it clear that as fun as that sounds...my dog was playing with the beaver it's highly unlikely and people should be aware of that.
> 
> JMHO...
> 
> 
> Pete & Woody


True and I do get the differentiation of opinions here. I suppose people seeing this as new dog owners might be out one day and see a beaver and think it is ok for their to play with it. But I like to think folks have a common sense about them.

Why would a Tucker want to play with foxes? It is something I didn't understand at first but once I saw what was going on I let them have their day. It was something unique I expect no one to understand.


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## Discoverer

Don't take me wrong - I am not promoting here playing with beavers!
What's OK with Oscar can be deadly for other dogs.
Why shouldn't dogs differ as much as people do in what they need and what they enjoy ? Now for people, there are two sayings that I like. One is "you never know what is enough until you've found what is too much" and the other is "you don't know what is nescessary until you try to do without it". So there's some trial and error for a dog or a human. The dog can't speak so the human has to observe and interpret.Breed functional history gives clues as to what might really be estatic for a particular dog. Eg Goldens were historically developed as gundogs thus have needs for substantial outdoor exercise and wildlife encountering. 
All dogs need some degree of physical exercise and some degree of mental exercise. They all need some degree of companionship either from other animals or from people or from both. But they vary in what kind and amount, so don't call "neglect and abuse" of something you don't understand of don't let your dog of doing.


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## Vhuynh2

I love to hike and I admit I am worried about encountering wildlife and Molly not being able to handle it the right way, but I will take that risk than to never hike again.. but going hiking/backpacking in the mountains and seeing bears, moose, coyotes, etc, is one thing, allowing them to play with wildlife is another..


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom

Wonder how many of our breeders would be agreeable to turning over their pups to people who intended to actively provide wildlife as playmates..... beavers, coyotes, etc.


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## BajaOklahoma

Everybody needs to remember that this is a website of Golden Retriever lovers. 
We all have different experiences and knowledge that we want to share with each other, in an effort to help our favorite breed.

As I was watching the video, I immediately thought of the Newffie. Though I'm technically a city girl, we do camp and have lots of wildlife at the lake. But I also know enough to know that I still have a lot to learn. It was a story I won't forget. With so many of us losing our dogs to cancer, I think we are just trying to make sure you don't lose yours.


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## Discoverer

Vhuynh2 said:


> seeing bears, moose, coyotes, etc, is one thing, allowing them to play with wildlife is another..


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom

And the other side: polar bear pulverizes sled dogs! - YouTube


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## Vhuynh2

Discoverer said:


>


Wow.. I was going to ask if you'd let Oscar play with a "friendly" bear cub, but I didn't want to specifically antagonize you and honestly I thought that was a question with an obvious answer, but I guess not.


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## GoldenCamper

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Wonder how many of our breeders would be agreeable to turning over their pups to people who intended to actively provide wildlife as playmates..... beavers, coyotes, etc.


Actively? Those of us that venture into the wilds do not pursue this. This is not a video game, it is serious and taken as such.


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## FeatherRiverSam

Discoverer said:


>




This is like watching the Timothy Treadwell waiting to happen... I doubt very much you'd see very many sled dog owners let this happen!


Pete & Woody


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## Debles

Steve, we know you take this seriously and would protect your dogs!


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## FeatherRiverSam

Steve as you know you've my total respect. Were something ever to happen to me I would count myself forever blessed if I knew Woody would end up with somebody like you. There aren't many people on that list. I don't think Discoverer loves their dog any less than anyone else on this board and I always look forward to reading about Oscar.

I grew up in the city but spent endless hours in the high country. And now I live in the mountains so I consider myself at the very least informed. I haven't reached the level of trust / harmony you've portrayed in some of your posts but I do understand them. Yes there is something very special about listening to the howl of coyotes in the back ground but I'd definitely have at least one eye peeled just in case. And if I saw bear or moose tracks Woody would be on lead.

I look at wildlife as very special but I also believe wildlife is just that wild. To me that means if it feels threatened in any way it will take what ever steps available to it to defend itself. It's first choice is to escape, risking injury is just not worth while unless no other option is available.

Can wildlife be a threat...yes. In my eyes wildlife, as beautiful as it can be, is opportunistic. Which means it will do what is necessary to survive as well as make sure it's offspring have a chance as well. Will it defend it's offspring...yes if it thinks it has a fighting chance. Will it eat or trample your dog...yes if it feels it's necessary and can get away with it with minimal harm.

I think this post unintentionally raised a lot of eyebrows. I think it was posted to show a beautiful golden having some fun. And Discoverer has said he / she is not encouraging people to let their dogs play with beavers...he / she was just posting something that looked like harmless fun.

Steve I was tempted to post something regarding the dogs in the water at those early morning hours with the brown bears about but didn't...I've never been to Alaska but there is no way in hell I'd ever let my dogs loose in that situation!

And you brought up the Pudden who I think it's fair to say we all love...here is one of her posts of her post regarding the infamous Moose People...


" In which the Pudden nearly gets pancaked by a moose person
The moose people are very stressed with the deep snow we're having. They hang around the trails and houses and refuse to leave. 

A couple nights ago the Pudden had to pee at 4 am and her Mama went outside to look around first to make sure there were no moose people right by the house and then let the Pud out on a leash and went out with her. 

But Mama had not looked carefully enough, and there was a Moose Mama and her calf right around the corner of the house, and the Pudden had to trash-talk at the moose and the moose mama charged us and the Pud ended up between the moose's legs and the moose trying to stomp her with those dinner-plate feet and Mama on her face in the snow and Mama's bathrobe got hung on a nail on the porch steps and Mama pulled out of her robe and was butt-naked in the snow at 4 am and 0 degrees trying to pull her Pudden out from between the moose's legs. Then Mama got the Pud up the stairs and the Moose tried to get us but we slipped into the house and Mama still butt-naked and all the moose got was Mama's bathrobe.

Then Mama examined her Pudden head-to toe and sat up with the Pudden for a couple hours to make sure the Pudden wasn't kicked or injured in any way. But the Pud was fine, she dodged the moose's feet apparently, and back inside she demanded a cookie and then went to sleep on the couch. The Pudden believes this was great fun and that we should tangle with the moose people more often. 

Oh, if only the child would learn that moose people are dangerous and that one musn't lunge and trash-talk at them, esp, when they are only 2 feet away...

Then in the morning Mama retrieved her bathrobe, with a hoofprint or two on it. The moose people are now about 50 yrds behind the house in the willows.

Sadly, last night another moose came through the neighborhood and Mama just heard that it stomped a sled dog in one of the neighbor's yard and the poor doggie died 

and her Pudden have to be super careful the rest of this winter. Mama will not let her Pudden out of her eyesight. If we get stomped, we get stomped together...."

I think it's fair to say Pudden's Mama was very cautious around the Moose People.

My intention here is to hope people with little experience will exercise caution on the side of their dog rather than rely on a single post indicating look at how fun this is...

Enough Said...

Pete & Woody


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## Max's Dad

I always enjoy the pictures you post of Oscar. He is a handsome boy, and clearly well trained. I especially enjoy the shots of Oscar retrieving water fowl, and seeing him out in the water and areas in which you hunt. What you are doing with him is truly what the Golden Retriever breed is meant to do. 

However, I have to admit that when I saw the pictures of Oscar with the beaver, I felt a sense of concern. Beavers are wild animals, Oscar is a domesticated dog. Even in play, I would be concerned that the beaver could seriously injure Oscar.

We have tried to expose Max to the world. I am not a hunter, so retrieving real game is not an option. He is a strong swimmer, so his exposure has been limited to our local lake, where he chases live ducks, dock diving and swimming in the ocean. Where ever we take him, whether it is swimming or shopping at the mall, he must rely on us, his humans, to protect him and make sure he is not exposed to unnecessary risk.

Recently we were visiting the Central Coast of California, and were walking along an ocean cove, sheltered harbor area, where there were a number of seals swimming and hanging-out on the rocks. A man had let his labrador retriever out to swim with the seals. We were afraid for the dog, because we noticed a mother seal with a pup out on a rock, and were concerned that the seal might be protective of the pup and attack the dog. A lab would have no chance defending himself in the seal's natural habitat. Fortunately, the owner got his dog out of the water before anything happened.

When we take Max to the beach, we always keep an eye out for seals, because we do not think it is a good idea for Max to interact with wild animals in that animal's habitat.

Of course, what you expose Oscar to is completely your choice. I look forward to seeing more pictures of Oscar on his adventures.


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## Tennyson

It's obvious that Discoverer has extensive knowledge of the wilderness. Most of us don't have that knowledge and reacted accordingly.


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## FeatherRiverSam

GoldenCamper said:


> True and I do get the differentiation of opinions here. I suppose people seeing this as new dog owners might be out one day and see a beaver and think it is ok for their to play with it. But I like to think folks have a common sense about them.
> 
> Why would a Tucker want to play with foxes? It is something I didn't understand at first but once I saw what was going on I let them have their day. It was something unique I expect no one to understand.


How cool is that...to watch Tucker playing with wild foxes? Even cautious me would be up for that! But I would draw the line with two or three coyotes...found this clip on utube...kind of neat.






Pete & Woody

Sorry for the double YouTube post...


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## Discoverer




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## Discoverer




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## GoldenCamper

FeatherRiverSam said:


> Steve as you know you've my total respect. Were something ever to happen to me I would count myself forever blessed if I knew Woody would end up with somebody like you. There aren't many people on that list.


That is the highest compliment I can ever expect to receive from another, Thank you. I got that once before from what I considered a acquaintance in real life. I jokingly mentioned I would take her Golden home. She said she was moving and might have to re home and thought of me. Huh? There is way more said about me in gossip around the area I ever will know. Yesterday a new walker said I am the dog whisperer, huh? Not a fan of that guy but took it as a compliment.



FeatherRiverSam said:


> How cool is that...to watch Tucker playing with wild foxes? Even cautious me would be up for that! But I would draw the line with two or three coyotes...found this clip on utube...kind of neat.


There was never any physical interaction between Tucker and his friends. They had conversations across the bogs which amazed me, no idea of course what they were talking about. They never interrupted one another in those conversations either. When the foxes had pups he let them be and it was a treat for us to watch them. One time while Tucker was gallivanting about in the woods and his fox came up to me and kinda laughed. They did have fun.

I am sad I have not seen the foxes in a long while. Before I adopted Fiona I would take her for walks as I missed the long walks Tucker and I had. He was still walked ever day mind you but not for the miles we were used too. This was before our wagon adventures to get him back in the element.

You may remember these pictures. Fiona being super velcro and not used to the world. I was laying down with my sneaker to keep her from smothering me to capture a picture of her and the sundog sky phenomena.










When I got up this guy was like where is Tucker? I know who you are but that is not Tucker.










It was a anomaly what Tucker and the foxes had. Fiona could have cared less about them and them about her.


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## Pudden

*not playing!*



Discoverer said:


> it was obvious the beaver and dogs enjoy the company of each other. Oscar plays with this beaver pretty much every day now.


no no! This is not play behavior. What the beaver does is the classic and typical response of beavers to intruders. They swim around in wide circles and loudly slap their tails to warn their family members to go to deep water where they are safe and to confuse and unnerve the intruder. They swim closer and closer as they get more agitated.

I've seen them do it in response to moose trampling through their pond, foxes or bears on the bank, and humans in canoes. They've done it to me when I was near their lodge to take pics. 

This may be play for Oscar, but that beaver is pretty pissed off  As others pointed out, they are capable of attacking, so careful! At the U in Anchorage, there is a beaver pond, and a few summers ago the beavers got so annoyed at the dogs who always went there and swam in the pond, that they started attacking. The nearby vet clinic got a LOT of business that year stitching up horrible bite wounds from the beavers' huge, powerful teeth. check it out here:

Beavers get tough defending their turf | Anchorage | ADN.com

:crossfing :wave: :curtain:


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