# Trainer made my dog “aggressive”



## KiraTheHyperPup (Nov 25, 2020)

So i said “aggressive” here because i feel like she is only biting when threatened or forced against her will and not going out of her way to attack someone. I am very confused on what to do now as they are well known trainers in my country and I don’t know any better ones.

i believe the prongs and choke chains can be used to train dogs IF USED CORRECTLY. Well I believe they might be using it wrong on my dog… So more about Akira, she is a very intelligent dog that learns quickly and obeys commands very very well sometimes looking like a police dog on how good she listens. The problem is when she is not in training mode.

well when she was younger she had a resource guarding issue so i got a trainer. He used a prong so hard on her that she kept yelping and throwing herself back. And you know how I stopped the resource guarding? i started showing her that food comes from ME so i can touch her food and her bowl (without pain) and jt worked!

well because they were so good for some reason i continued training her there. Well whenever she play bites as a puppy they would pin her to the ground and shut her muzzle and start slapping her. They said that i was too soft on her. Well the slapping always made everything worse and made her bite more! Or they would yank her with the choke chain.

Well thats where she is now, she HATES the choke chain. She knows better than to have her teeth on me but when the choke chain is now she will gnaw (no blood or scratches) at my hand (i think telling me it hurts) because when i switch her to another type of collar, or a harness she will stop all the pulling and gnawing immediately.

also have to mention that she had bitten (stitches and all) someone in my house. She is very obedient to this person and we were all in the living room when it happened, she was having tics (still can’t figure out what causes her tics!). This person was trying to take her outside and didn’t realize she was having an episode, no posturing, growling or anything when suddenly she turns around and bite her. I grabbed her collar and she lets go. That was a few months back (i posted more about it in my last thread) and she is now still very obedient to that person.

well after that incident the trainers now consider her as an “aggressive dog” and that they will need to put a muzzle on her on training sessions and to have a choke chain around her neck 24/7. Im not sure if i should count her as an aggressive dog and train her/treat her as one. I am thinking of going to a behaviorist for this. Any input and criticism will be appreciated as I feel like im doing something wrong.


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## KiraTheHyperPup (Nov 25, 2020)

Also have to mention when the trainer said that I am too soft on her, I am not babying her and I am firm with her and she will happily listen but I also don’t find the use of beating my own dog up…

also they knew what happened because the first person i thought of contacting after the bite was the trainer and then the vet.

the trainer kept telling me it was the only way to fix that behavior so I didn’t think much of it even though its a lot for me to witness, she is my first dog so i just agreed to what the professional said and continue training with them.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

KiraTheHyperPup said:


> So i said “aggressive” here because i feel like she is only biting when threatened or forced against her will and not going out of her way to attack someone. I am very confused on what to do now as they are well known trainers in my country and I don’t know any better ones.
> 
> 
> Well whenever she play bites as a puppy they would pin her to the ground and shut her muzzle and start slapping her.


Do you know of any worse trainers in your country?


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## PalouseDogs (Aug 14, 2013)

Always dangerous to give training advice over the internet, but what the heck, doesn't sound like things could get much worse. 

From your description, it sounds like normal puppy behavior was punished so harshly, she's biting when she feels trapped or cornered. An effective correction is something that the dog can avoid by doing the right thing, which also means the dog has to be taught what the right thing is. She sounds like a dog that is going into panic mode from fear. 

What do you mean by "tics"? Does she have epilepsy? If so, that is not a training issue, it is a medical issue that needs to be addressed by a vet, probably with a prescription for phenobarbital. 

Ditch this trainer. Even as a first-time dog owner, relying on internet and books for info, I don't think you could do worse on your own.


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## Ffcmm (May 4, 2016)

im sorry you are going through this. from the description it sounds that she lashes out and reacts in response to the pain of the training and corrections that were not done right. Please do NOT return to this trainer. its clear no longer accepts these type of training tools, and associates them negatively. when you back off as she bites it reaffirms that this is the correct method for her to tell you that she doesn't like it.. 

Stop with this trainer immediately, and start working on rebuilding the trust slowly. do not push her given her bite history. I really hated reading what the trainer put her through!!


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## KiraTheHyperPup (Nov 25, 2020)

SRW said:


> Do you know of any worse trainers in your country?


I hope not! But they are known as one of the best training facilities in the country apparently! From training non working dogs, protection dogs, police dogs. So when they said that “its ok this is what you are supposed to do” I just trusted them… horrible idea i know. Most people in this countries still hit their dogs apperently, as when i had a guest over when she was still a puppy and she started puppy biting he told me to slap her???




PalouseDogs said:


> Always dangerous to give training advice over the internet, but what the heck, doesn't sound like things could get much worse.
> 
> From your description, it sounds like normal puppy behavior was punished so harshly, she's biting when she feels trapped or cornered. An effective correction is something that the dog can avoid by doing the right thing, which also means the dog has to be taught what the right thing is. She sounds like a dog that is going into panic mode from fear.
> 
> ...


Oh no how could it get any worse, sometimes i just wish she could go back to being a puppy and I can redo everything and train her correctly this time around. Also unfortunately found out she came from a puppy mill! Everything about getting her was suspicious.

We had to pay before even meeting them, they had us pay a downpayment but even after they still wouldn’t let us see her! They only showed us a bunch of pics and had us pick, can’t really pick personalities and bonds through pictures of course. With hundreds gone we decided to pick her up anyway but they would only meet us away from their house/facility. She is a beautiful girl but she has a lot of medical issues. She was also taken from her mom at 4 weeks old there! And we picked her up at 6 unknowingly as they lied about her age.

Yes she had started ticking for some reason, she has undergone a lot of tests and still nothing yet. I agree that she was punished harshly for just puppy biting… She never had the best start in life training with this trainer made everything far worse.



Ffcmm said:


> im sorry you are going through this. from the description it sounds that she lashes out and reacts in response to the pain of the training and corrections that were not done right. Please do NOT return to this trainer. its clear no longer accepts these type of training tools, and associates them negatively. when you back off as she bites it reaffirms that this is the correct method for her to tell you that she doesn't like it..
> 
> Stop with this trainer immediately, and start working on rebuilding the trust slowly. do not push her given her bite history. I really hated reading what the trainer put her through!!


Thankfully we have stopped training with them months ago. Last time was the worse thing ever (which i think caused her lashing out now). We were out of town and the training facility had a boarding school, we thought why not, well when she came back she had her first heat. When we put a diaper on her she snapped! We were all surprised as she had never snapped at us! 

After that the snapping started at this one family member. Everyone in the house except for me and one other person is now terrified of her! She is a velcro dog so wherever i go everyone in the house avoids me.

edit: also i might need to get her used to the choke chain with a new trainer as most dog walkers, trainers, dog hotels use them and it would be a lot more convenient to find her a place when we go out of town.

Also not sure what they did when i was boarding her there but what i do know is that they harrassed her (slapping annoying ect) so much to try and teach her to speak as she wouldn’t make a peep. They taught her speak without my knowledge. Now she barks a lot… also she never actually fully learned speak… boy am i MAD, they harassed my poor dog, and now i have to deal with the consequences.


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

KiraTheHyperPup said:


> and start slapping her.


Slapping a dog is not training them. Slapping a dog says more about the poor skills of the slapper/trainer than it does about the behavior of the puppy.


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## gingermenagias (8 mo ago)

KiraTheHyperPup said:


> I hope not! But they are known as one of the best training facilities in the country apparently! From training non working dogs, protection dogs, police dogs. So when they said that “its ok this is what you are supposed to do” I just trusted them… horrible idea i know. Most people in this countries still hit their dogs apperently, as when i had a guest over when she was still a puppy and she started puppy biting he told me to slap her???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I too had a Choc. Lab. @ 8 wks. old bought from A man and women in Guilford NY. Seemed like a nice amish lady and her husband. Wrong! Although I had AKC papers, Lancaster puppies., they were not legally breeders. They moved from Guilford NY to A cow farm in Bainbridge NY. Finally after searching for them I found pictures of their cow farm . Obviously, they went from a farm not so nice to a very large farm in Bainbridge NY. I tried calling the phone number they hav me and they never answered me. My precious pup was diagnosed with growing pains( it’s the pain of a broken leg and can last up to 2 yrs.) Then she was possessive aggressive ) I would giv her a kong with PB. on it from the freezer, she learned to bring it back to me so she could hav another. Then her next treat would b one she didn’t have to return to me. This worked for me! I had the best trainers, plus I enjoyed loved her so from 6 Am-8 pm. 7 days a week for 1 yr. 7 mo. She also had ear infections, and I took her to the vet. fearing she had UTI. She also had DRS. These breeders knew one of the parents had it and it is handed down to the pups. I believe it was the male as we only got to meet the mom. Then I spoke with Humane Society where these people live and I was told this man Allen Yoder was seen beating his horse! Then I received info. that after the female dog cant breed anymore they kill her! Also pups they can’t sell they kill.I had behaviorist specialist the best who did 911 does search and rescue for 40 yrs. Broke my heart when he told me this unlicensed breeder was only breeding for the love of money. Well r pup got away from this so called puppy mill and had a very loving home and all the frills and love that every dog deserves. We had her 1 yr. 7 mo. then the vet explained in simple form; she was suffering from every symptom of DRS. We could put her on meds. but not a cure . Meds. hav to b changed when DRS starts. So I made the hardest decision. I had to put her down and not allow her to suffer anymore. She my Bonnie was a hero. My son almost died 3 times. I told him I’d get him a dog. Just get well! He was in the hospital 6 wks. At Christmas time we all were i’ll. I knew I had to care for our new family member so I walked gav her the best care and love. She helped me keep going and I made a full recovery!! Now I hope, from what Bonnie went through and r family others will learn to stay away from puppy mills bad people. OFA clearance is a must, for the GRCA code of ethics. It’s only been 4 weeks since I had to put her down and now my husband and son hav put a deposit on An English Cream golden retriever. I did find out even though her parents r AKC that AKC doesn’t recognize the Eng. Cream ? It’s ok. We just want a lovable healthy pup! This breeder seems very nice, many signs that he and his family r professional loving breeders. His name Don Graves Super Goldens Fort Ann NY. He stays in contact and can b reached with any questions, before and after our purchase. Also SAS genetic clearance needed. I believe we hav an honorable breeder and r new family member b home with us mid. July born 8 wks. This litter had 5 they thought they were having more. We did put a deposit that’s understandable as 1 female is claimed and one for us. There r 3 males. Sex doesent matter to be as long as pup is healthy lovable. Now I shared my story with dog lovers. May I hav helped others not to make the same mistake with breeders of no good reputations. Hopefully, when it’s time for her to make friends with other dogs, I find her playmates too. I hav been told by pros no dog parks. 1 diseases and 2 of there r aggressive dogs there they could attack r dog. Then I thought of doggie daycare but I don’t want her with 20-40 dogs. Any ideas for us?


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Stop taking her there immediately! Nobody should be slapping a dog or pinning them for play biting! Much better ways to handle it! Also, I'd get rid of the chain collar. She's had too many negative experiences involving it. Why torture her with it? 

I would get a vet to look at her for the tics. That doesn't sound like aggression, it sounds like a medical condition. Remember that they don't always know what they're doing during an episode.


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## KiraTheHyperPup (Nov 25, 2020)

GoldenDude said:


> Slapping a dog is not training them. Slapping a dog says more about the poor skills of the slapper/trainer than it does about the behavior of the puppy.


Ah i see, guess i shouldn’t trust every “professional” i meet. Any more dogs i get in the future (far future as my hands are full right now) should never feel a slap ever again. Now i feel horrible letting her go through that.


gingermenagias said:


> I too had a Choc. Lab. @ 8 wks. old bought from A man and women in Guilford NY. Seemed like a nice amish lady and her husband. Wrong! Although I had AKC papers, www.Lancasterpuppies. com., they were not legally breeders. They moved from Guilford NY to A cow farm in Bainbridge NY. Finally after searching for them I found pictures of their cow farm . Obviously, they went from a farm not so nice to a very large farm in Bainbridge NY. I tried calling the phone number they hav me and they never answered me. My precious pup was diagnosed with growing pains( it’s the pain of a broken leg and can last up to 2 yrs.) Then she was possessive aggressive ) I would giv her a kong with PB. on it from the freezer, she learned to bring it back to me so she could hav another. Then her next treat would b one she didn’t have to return to me. This worked for me! I had the best trainers, plus I enjoyed loved her so from 6 Am-8 pm. 7 days a week for 1 yr. 7 mo. She also had ear infections, and I took her to the vet. fearing she had UTI. She also had DRS. These breeders knew one of the parents had it and it is handed down to the pups. I believe it was the male as we only got to meet the mom. Then I spoke with Humane Society where these people live and I was told this man Allen Yoder was seen beating his horse! Then I received info. that after the female dog cant breed anymore they kill her! Also pups they can’t sell they kill.I had behaviorist specialist the best who did 911 does search and rescue for 40 yrs. Broke my heart when he told me this unlicensed breeder was only breeding for the love of money. Well r pup got away from this so called puppy mill and had a very loving home and all the frills and love that every dog deserves. We had her 1 yr. 7 mo. then the vet explained in simple form; she was suffering from every symptom of DRS. We could put her on meds. but not a cure . Meds. hav to b changed when DRS starts. So I made the hardest decision. I had to put her down and not allow her to suffer anymore. She my Bonnie was a hero. My son almost died 3 times. I told him I’d get him a dog. Just get well! He was in the hospital 6 wks. At Christmas time we all were i’ll. I knew I had to care for our new family member so I walked gav her the best care and love. She helped me keep going and I made a full recovery!! Now I hope, from what Bonnie went through and r family others will learn to stay away from puppy mills bad people. OFA clearance is a must, for the GRCA code of ethics. It’s only been 4 weeks since I had to put her down and now my husband and son hav put a deposit on An English Cream golden retriever. I did find out even though her parents r AKC that AKC doesn’t recognize the Eng. Cream ? It’s ok. We just want a lovable healthy pup! This breeder seems very nice, many signs that he and his family r professional loving breeders. His name Don Graves Super Goldens Fort Ann NY. He stays in contact and can b reached with any questions, before and after our purchase. Also SAS genetic clearance needed. I believe we hav an honorable breeder and r new family member b home with us mid. July born 8 wks. This litter had 5 they thought they were having more. We did put a deposit that’s understandable as 1 female is claimed and one for us. There r 3 males. Sex doesent matter to be as long as pup is healthy lovable. Now I shared my story with dog lovers. May I hav helped others not to make the same mistake with breeders of no good reputations. Hopefully, when it’s time for her to make friends with other dogs, I find her playmates too. I hav been told by pros no dog parks. 1 diseases and 2 of there r aggressive dogs there they could attack r dog. Then I thought of doggie daycare but I don’t want her with 20-40 dogs. Any ideas for us?


Im sorry to hear about your pup… Wish I could’ve had a trainer like yours, really hard to find a good trainer here. I would have to ask other dog parents if they have contacts of good trainers. A lot of people here still advocate for dog slapping/punching/pinning I would have to look carefully.

I also don’t go to dog parks, although mine is more because Akira enjoys human company better than dogs, she is okay with being around them and ignores them but when they are too pushy she will growl, i wouldn’t want her to attack or be attacked by another dog who doesn’t understand boundaries.

Also wish we had breeding regulations here.. there are no standards for breeding here so it’s hard to know whos who and which breeder is good or bad. Too many horrible breeders here, guess its best to ask others where they get their pups.




DevWind said:


> Stop taking her there immediately! Nobody should be slapping a dog or pinning them for play biting! Much better ways to handle it! Also, I'd get rid of the chain collar. She's had too many negative experiences involving it. Why torture her with it?
> 
> I would get a vet to look at her for the tics. That doesn't sound like aggression, it sounds like a medical condition. Remember that they don't always know what they're doing during an episode.


Yes i agree, i stopped taking her there a long time ago after she went home more defensive after boarding there while i was out of town. I do not use the choke chain anymore unfortunately places like groomers, walkers, pet hotels, here all use chains so when she is in the hands of someone else they probably use it behind my back.

i took her to the vet already, hundreds spent on testing nothing yet, im hoping we can confirm her issue. Still searching but the doctor suspects some type of epilepsy.


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## Kuttu (8 mo ago)

Hey, I am a first time golden owner myself. So please take my advice with a grain(pinch) of salt. Right now, I would not worry about any behavioural issues. I would focus on rebuilding trust and bonding. Also if you are unable to find any good dog trainers around you. Please check out Victoria Stilwell and Zak George. They are positive dog trainers that can be found on youtube. Both of the have websites/apps where you can get online consultations.
Victoria: positively.com
Zak: pupford (app)


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## michaeldwilson (Aug 14, 2012)

Did I read that right? A trainer said to slap a dog? That will _not_ produce the results you want, nor will it be conducive to the kind of relationship you probably want with your dog.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I really hate to say anything which might come across as inflammatory or insensitive, and I apologize if this comes across that way.

But everything that people on this forum say about taking your dogs to obedience classes does not apply to people in other countries where the culture is quite different where it applies to dog ownership, dog training, etc.

My personal advice would be more along the lines of what somebody suggested above, please check online sources for training dogs. If you have organized training classes to attend - screen them very carefully, particularly based on western resources on appropriate handling and care towards dogs. Hopefully cultures change so definitely no matter where you are around the world, the people training people to train their dogs will be right in line with appropriate and kind training methods, but that is not how it is currently.

This is not to say that everyone is terrible in other countries - that is not true. I've had co-workers with family in countries like Syria and Pakistan who really loved animals and had very kind and gentle hands with them. But in general, dogs are not yet viewed as honored members of the family and deserving of love and kindness as they are in western countries.

Please give your poor pup a hug and get her out of those training classes ASAP.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Kuttu said:


> Hey, I am a first time golden owner myself. So please take my advice with a grain(pinch) of salt. Right now, I would not worry about any behavioural issues. I would focus on rebuilding trust and bonding. Also if you are unable to find any good dog trainers around you. Please check out Victoria Stilwell and Zak George. They are positive dog trainers that can be found on youtube. Both of the have websites/apps where you can get online consultations.
> Victoria: positively.com
> Zak: pupford (app)


I would avoid self described "positive dog trainers" every bit as much as one that advised slapping a puppy.


Megora said:


> But everything that people on this forum say about taking your dogs to obedience classes does not apply to people in other countries where the culture is quite different where it applies to dog ownership, dog training, etc.





Megora said:


> This is not to say that everyone is terrible in other countries - that is not true. I've had co-workers with family in countries like Syria and Pakistan who really loved animals and had very kind and gentle hands with them. But in general, dogs are not yet viewed as honored members of the family and deserving of love and kindness as they are in western countries.


Are trying to politely say dogs are sometimes part of the family and other times part of the menu?


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## Hildae (Aug 15, 2012)

gingermenagias said:


> I too had a Choc. Lab. @ 8 wks. old bought from A man and women in Guilford NY. Seemed like a nice amish lady and her husband. Wrong! Although I had AKC papers, www.Lancasterpuppies. com., they were not legally breeders. They moved from Guilford NY to A cow farm in Bainbridge NY. Finally after searching for them I found pictures of their cow farm . Obviously, they went from a farm not so nice to a very large farm in Bainbridge NY. I tried calling the phone number they hav me and they never answered me. My precious pup was diagnosed with growing pains( it’s the pain of a broken leg and can last up to 2 yrs.) Then she was possessive aggressive ) I would giv her a kong with PB. on it from the freezer, she learned to bring it back to me so she could hav another. Then her next treat would b one she didn’t have to return to me. This worked for me! I had the best trainers, plus I enjoyed loved her so from 6 Am-8 pm. 7 days a week for 1 yr. 7 mo. She also had ear infections, and I took her to the vet. fearing she had UTI. She also had DRS. These breeders knew one of the parents had it and it is handed down to the pups. I believe it was the male as we only got to meet the mom. Then I spoke with Humane Society where these people live and I was told this man Allen Yoder was seen beating his horse! Then I received info. that after the female dog cant breed anymore they kill her! Also pups they can’t sell they kill.I had behaviorist specialist the best who did 911 does search and rescue for 40 yrs. Broke my heart when he told me this unlicensed breeder was only breeding for the love of money. Well r pup got away from this so called puppy mill and had a very loving home and all the frills and love that every dog deserves. We had her 1 yr. 7 mo. then the vet explained in simple form; she was suffering from every symptom of DRS. We could put her on meds. but not a cure . Meds. hav to b changed when DRS starts. So I made the hardest decision. I had to put her down and not allow her to suffer anymore. She my Bonnie was a hero. My son almost died 3 times. I told him I’d get him a dog. Just get well! He was in the hospital 6 wks. At Christmas time we all were i’ll. I knew I had to care for our new family member so I walked gav her the best care and love. She helped me keep going and I made a full recovery!! Now I hope, from what Bonnie went through and r family others will learn to stay away from puppy mills bad people. OFA clearance is a must, for the GRCA code of ethics. It’s only been 4 weeks since I had to put her down and now my husband and son hav put a deposit on An English Cream golden retriever. I did find out even though her parents r AKC that AKC doesn’t recognize the Eng. Cream ? It’s ok. We just want a lovable healthy pup! This breeder seems very nice, many signs that he and his family r professional loving breeders. His name Don Graves Super Goldens Fort Ann NY. He stays in contact and can b reached with any questions, before and after our purchase. Also SAS genetic clearance needed. I believe we hav an honorable breeder and r new family member b home with us mid. July born 8 wks. This litter had 5 they thought they were having more. We did put a deposit that’s understandable as 1 female is claimed and one for us. There r 3 males. Sex doesent matter to be as long as pup is healthy lovable. Now I shared my story with dog lovers. May I hav helped others not to make the same mistake with breeders of no good reputations. Hopefully, when it’s time for her to make friends with other dogs, I find her playmates too. I hav been told by pros no dog parks. 1 diseases and 2 of there r aggressive dogs there they could attack r dog. Then I thought of doggie daycare but I don’t want her with 20-40 dogs. Any ideas for us?


Unfortunately your first purchase was from a well known mill. You current deposit isn't up to standards either I'm sorry to say. Some of the dogs show inadequate heart clearances, some are missing elbows, etc.


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

SRW said:


> I would avoid self described "positive dog trainers" every bit as much as one that advised slapping a puppy.
> 
> 
> Are trying to politely say dogs are sometimes part of the family and other times part of the menu?


Dogs are not on the menu in the two countries Megora mentioned.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

GoldenDude said:


> Dogs are not on the menu in the two countries Megora mentioned.


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## Kuttu (8 mo ago)

SRW said:


> I would avoid self described "positive dog trainers" every bit as much as one that advised slapping a puppy.


Respectfully, maybe check out their work before you criticise them? Also in this case I doubt punishment/consequences is going to be much help in bonding


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## KiraTheHyperPup (Nov 25, 2020)

Kuttu said:


> Hey, I am a first time golden owner myself. So please take my advice with a grain(pinch) of salt. Right now, I would not worry about any behavioural issues. I would focus on rebuilding trust and bonding. Also if you are unable to find any good dog trainers around you. Please check out Victoria Stilwell and Zak George. They are positive dog trainers that can be found on youtube. Both of the have websites/apps where you can get online consultations.
> Victoria: positively.com
> Zak: pupford (app)


Thank you! i did their exercises when Akira was younger, before i got the trainer.



michaeldwilson said:


> Did I read that right? A trainer said to slap a dog? That will _not_ produce the results you want, nor will it be conducive to the kind of relationship you probably want with your dog.


YES they slapped her and told me to slap her too… not even a light slap you could hear it from afar, have to mention i have never slapped her like they do as i didn't have the heart. I wouldn’t slap a child why would i slap a puppy? She would be puppy biting then they would slap her, then she would get more riled up and do it again and they would start wresling her to yje ground. They said to me countless time i am too soft and can’t properly train or own a dog.

the only instance they wouldn’t slap a dog is if they were a protection/police dog in training as they said that they would be traumatized but house dogs need to be????? They are saying this like the



Megora said:


> I really hate to say anything which might come across as inflammatory or insensitive, and I apologize if this comes across that way.
> 
> But everything that people on this forum say about taking your dogs to obedience classes does not apply to people in other countries where the culture is quite different where it applies to dog ownership, dog training, etc.
> 
> ...


Yes i agree, here they are seen as more of an animal to chain outside. Thankfully over the years people are treating dogs more and more like family members here and now around 50% have them in the house (this is more because of the religious aspect of my country where some can only own dogs outside the house). I would have to ask from other owners that had the type of training i want. Old training classes are over after they harassed my dog in boarding and made her worse…



SRW said:


> I would avoid self described "positive dog trainers" every bit as much as one that advised slapping a puppy.
> 
> 
> Are trying to politely say dogs are sometimes part of the family and other times part of the menu?


Hmm so what would be positive dog training but also not slapping a puppy? If anyone can give me an example for what to look for that would be great.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Kuttu said:


> Respectfully, maybe check out their work before you criticise them? Also in this case I doubt punishment/consequences is going to be much help in bonding


Trainers that professing to be "Positive only" have told me all I need to know and I did not suggest any punishment.



KiraTheHyperPup said:


> Hmm so what would be positive dog training but also not slapping a puppy?


Search puppy biting, there have been many threads about it.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

KiraTheHyperPup said:


> Yes i agree, i stopped taking her there a long time ago after she went home more defensive after boarding there while i was out of town. I do not use the choke chain anymore unfortunately places like groomers, walkers, pet hotels, here all use chains so when she is in the hands of someone else they probably use it behind my back.
> 
> i took her to the vet already, hundreds spent on testing nothing yet, im hoping we can confirm her issue. Still searching but the doctor suspects some type of epilepsy.


No one should EVER do something to your dog behind your back! There are slip collars that aren’t chains. I don’t know where you are, but I don’t know of any groomer, vet, or boarding facility that would use a chain.

If a chain collar is absolutely unavoidable, then you need to work on desensitizing her to it. It’s a slow process of only good things happening when the collar is around. 

I hope they figure it out soon.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

KiraTheHyperPup said:


> Yes i agree, here they are seen as more of an animal to chain outside. Thankfully over the years people are treating dogs more and more like family members here and now around 50% have them in the house (this is more because of the religious aspect of my country where some can only own dogs outside the house). I would have to ask from other owners that had the type of training i want. Old training classes are over after they harassed my dog in boarding and made her worse…


Yes - I was referring to chaining dogs outside, as well as how dogs are viewed as unclean, etc.

For people like my coworkers - they still loved their family dogs and cared for them. We'd show each other pictures... 

The positive only vs whatever else stuff referred to above is meaningless in this conversation. When rehabilitating a dog or fixing the problems created by others in your dog, you need to regain her trust.

A friend/fellow trainer had adopted a dog she never intended to after seeing a foster kicking the dog and expressing disgust and hatred about the dog. That's here in the US, btw. This person took this little dog in and made her a pretty good agility and obedience dog - which says much considering the early beginnings of this very fearful and anxious dog. <B


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## KiraTheHyperPup (Nov 25, 2020)

SRW said:


> Trainers that professing to be "Positive only" have told me all I need to know and I did not suggest any punishment.
> 
> 
> Search puppy biting, there have been many threads about it.


Oh sorry meant what techniques to look for when looking for a trainer as she is over the puppy biting stage now.



DevWind said:


> No one should EVER do something to your dog behind your back! There are slip collars that aren’t chains. I don’t know where you are, but I don’t know of any groomer, vet, or boarding facility that would use a chain.
> 
> If a chain collar is absolutely unavoidable, then you need to work on desensitizing her to it. It’s a slow process of only good things happening when the collar is around.
> 
> I hope they figure it out soon.


Thank you! Yes i do have slip collars but I see groomers, and boarding facilities here use chains even though i gave them a collar, harness, ect. Akira loves her harness and pulls less on it then a choke so it is actually not needed but for some reason they insist on using chokes…


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

SRW said:


>


Accuracy is important to some, since the forum attracts users from all over the globe.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

gingermenagias said:


> I too had a Choc. Lab. @ 8 wks. old bought from A man and women in Guilford NY. Seemed like a nice amish lady and her husband. Wrong! Although I had AKC papers, Lancaster puppies., they were not legally breeders. They moved from Guilford NY to A cow farm in Bainbridge NY. Finally after searching for them I found pictures of their cow farm . Obviously, they went from a farm not so nice to a very large farm in Bainbridge NY. I tried calling the phone number they hav me and they never answered me. My precious pup was diagnosed with growing pains( it’s the pain of a broken leg and can last up to 2 yrs.) Then she was possessive aggressive ) I would giv her a kong with PB. on it from the freezer, she learned to bring it back to me so she could hav another. Then her next treat would b one she didn’t have to return to me. This worked for me! I had the best trainers, plus I enjoyed loved her so from 6 Am-8 pm. 7 days a week for 1 yr. 7 mo. She also had ear infections, and I took her to the vet. fearing she had UTI. She also had DRS. These breeders knew one of the parents had it and it is handed down to the pups. I believe it was the male as we only got to meet the mom. Then I spoke with Humane Society where these people live and I was told this man Allen Yoder was seen beating his horse! Then I received info. that after the female dog cant breed anymore they kill her! Also pups they can’t sell they kill.I had behaviorist specialist the best who did 911 does search and rescue for 40 yrs. Broke my heart when he told me this unlicensed breeder was only breeding for the love of money. Well r pup got away from this so called puppy mill and had a very loving home and all the frills and love that every dog deserves. We had her 1 yr. 7 mo. then the vet explained in simple form; she was suffering from every symptom of DRS. We could put her on meds. but not a cure . Meds. hav to b changed when DRS starts. So I made the hardest decision. I had to put her down and not allow her to suffer anymore. She my Bonnie was a hero. My son almost died 3 times. I told him I’d get him a dog. Just get well! He was in the hospital 6 wks. At Christmas time we all were i’ll. I knew I had to care for our new family member so I walked gav her the best care and love. She helped me keep going and I made a full recovery!! Now I hope, from what Bonnie went through and r family others will learn to stay away from puppy mills bad people. OFA clearance is a must, for the GRCA code of ethics. It’s only been 4 weeks since I had to put her down and now my husband and son hav put a deposit on An English Cream golden retriever. I did find out even though her parents r AKC that AKC doesn’t recognize the Eng. Cream ? It’s ok. We just want a lovable healthy pup! This breeder seems very nice, many signs that he and his family r professional loving breeders. His name Don Graves Super Goldens Fort Ann NY. He stays in contact and can b reached with any questions, before and after our purchase. Also SAS genetic clearance needed. I believe we hav an honorable breeder and r new family member b home with us mid. July born 8 wks. This litter had 5 they thought they were having more. We did put a deposit that’s understandable as 1 female is claimed and one for us. There r 3 males. Sex doesent matter to be as long as pup is healthy lovable. Now I shared my story with dog lovers. May I hav helped others not to make the same mistake with breeders of no good reputations. Hopefully, when it’s time for her to make friends with other dogs, I find her playmates too. I hav been told by pros no dog parks. 1 diseases and 2 of there r aggressive dogs there they could attack r dog. Then I thought of doggie daycare but I don’t want her with 20-40 dogs. Any ideas for us?


Maybe start your own thread- both Lancaster and your Super breeder are known not to do clearances.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

gingermenagias said:


> May I hav helped others not to make the same mistake with breeders of no good reputations.


You made another mistake. I would try to get the deposit back and would pass on a pup even if I lost it.


KiraTheHyperPup said:


> Oh sorry meant what techniques to look for when looking for a trainer


One good sign is happy well behaved dogs that don't need a steady stream of treats handed to them.


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## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

There's so much wrong here, I just don't know where to begin. First, fire the trainer. Second, these "tics" you're talking about. That's not normal. If there's a neurological issue, that can definitely cause aggression. Get that figured out. She needs to see a vet.


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## johnluce (Sep 7, 2014)

KiraTheHyperPup said:


> So i said “aggressive” here because i feel like she is only biting when threatened or forced against her will and not going out of her way to attack someone. I am very confused on what to do now as they are well known trainers in my country and I don’t know any better ones.
> 
> i believe the prongs and choke chains can be used to train dogs IF USED CORRECTLY. Well I believe they might be using it wrong on my dog… So more about Akira, she is a very intelligent dog that learns quickly and obeys commands very very well sometimes looking like a police dog on how good she listens. The problem is when she is not in training mode.
> 
> ...


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## johnluce (Sep 7, 2014)

I see you have a lot of reply's to your post and I have not read them.
I have a male golden that displayed behavior similar to yours. When he was a puppy he also displayed some aggressive tenancies which made me use a couple of different trainers. The early training was comprised of a lot of punishment styled training for bad behavior, shock collars yanking on the neck, etc. My regular vet recommended we visited a Certified Veterinarian Behaviorist. The CVB advised that this type of training was probably was part of his problem.
We started using positive reinforcement training techniques with him and it has helped. It took a long time for him to actually trust me and and build a stronger relationship. He still has some reactive issues and isn't very good with other people but at least I can handle him now. Every dog responds differently to training, you may want to explore this option to training with your dog.


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