# Mercy acting aggressive towards dogs of all types now



## Shellbug (Nov 14, 2013)

I have no advice ? I do want to ask however, how old is she and at what age did it start?


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Does she raise her lip when she growls?


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

I'd be careful how to respond to aggressive behavior, both in the way you carry yourself and in how to react to Mercy - remember, dogs are experts at reading body language and she may pick up on things you don't even realize you are doing (such as getting tense when new dogs approach, etc). I'd say if you are that concerned about it consult with a behaviorist. 

Find Dog, Cat, Parrot and Horse Behavior Consultants | IAABC

I'm not familiar with anyone in NoVA but I do know two down here, one in particular that deals a lot with aggression issues, that are fantastic.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Shellbug said:


> I have no advice &#55357;&#56850; I do want to ask however, how old is she and at what age did it start?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


She will be 2 on February 5th. It started on November 1st, when she growled at her father!:doh:


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Is she intact? Does she growl at both males and females or just males?


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Max's Dad said:


> Does she raise her lip when she growls?


I have not seen that yet. I must say that she acts agressive during play at times also. When she was playing at the river at Hemlock with an offline friend's Golden and a friend of her's lab, she was growling at them. This was a few weeks ago. The same day she growled at her father, I had a playdate with the person who told me her father was in the pet supply store and at one point she let er rip with a terrible snarl while sitting on top of him. He was unneutered. I thought it was just restricted to intact males, but when she growled at a 14 month old female on November 23rd while the dogs were still on leash, it had me very concerned. The acid test will be when I have my meetup playdate at the doggie day care next month. I will be on her like a hawk correcting her for growling and treating her for playing nice.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

My rule of thumb is, separate places for dog play and separate from training. At training the dogs do not interact (after class if I know both the person and the dog it is different) I just do not want them to associate the obedience ring with play time. 
The only place for "strange" dog interaction for us is Petco. It is in a supervised environment, all dogs are on the leash and you can tell from a distance whom you want to interact with and whom you would rather move onto the next isle. 
We have gone to the park only because of the water feature but once a lab came charging off leash towards Rose with the owner yelling "my dog is friendly" I quit going there. The "friendly dog" was growling at me and Rose started growling back as I was about to get bitten by the "friendly dog". 

I agree with CharlieBear as far as Mercy reading your body language or feelings and reacting to that more that reacting to the other dog.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

CharlieBear80 said:


> I'd be careful how to respond to aggressive behavior, both in the way you carry yourself and in how to react to Mercy - remember, dogs are experts at reading body language and she may pick up on things you don't even realize you are doing (such as getting tense when new dogs approach, etc). I'd say if you are that concerned about it consult with a behaviorist.
> 
> Find Dog, Cat, Parrot and Horse Behavior Consultants | IAABC
> 
> I'm not familiar with anyone in NoVA but I do know two down here, one in particular that deals a lot with aggression issues, that are fantastic.


It's possible it is my body language some times. She growled at a Doberman mix or Manchester Terrier last night while we were practicing in Petsmart. Their noses just ran into each other when I made a turn. I was a little fearful of that other dog being aggressive since alot of dogs that take Petsmart classes at this Petsmart are aggressive. I've got to get to the core of this before it's too late. I've invested so much into this dog, and I refuse for her to turn mean! I wont have it!


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

I doubt she's in danger of turning into a flat-out aggressive dog. Deep breath, and contact a professional that can evaluate what you are seeing. She may be reacting appropriately to the way other dogs are approaching her, and she may just be playing rough... hard to say when we don't know that the other dogs are up to, KWIM?


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## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

I posted this in another thread as well:

An excellent blog post from one of my favorite trainers, Connie Cleveland. It includes information on how to get a pdf copy of some of her articles on dealing with aggression.

A Language Barrier. Aggression.


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## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

At the end of the video you posted it seemed (to me) that Mercy became aggressive at a low level. That it could have escalated if it continued.


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## Shellbug (Nov 14, 2013)

Tennyson said:


> At the end of the video you posted it seemed (to me) that Mercy became aggressive at a low level. That it could have escalated if it continued.


I must have missed the video 


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## KeaColorado (Jan 2, 2013)

A behaviorist who can witness one of these episodes will be really helpful to you. 

Personally, I'd think long and hard about correcting a growl. That could be her only way to communicate that she finds a situation threatening. If she is trained not to growl, she might decide to go straight for a bite. 

Kea's thing is she puts her hackles up when she feels threatened by another dog. Sometimes she does this when we first go into a new class and there are a bunch of dogs she doesn't know. I reward her with treats for refocusing on me, and that works well.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

This isn't going to be what you want to hear, but here at the pet hotel having had many thousands of dogs around we have noticed that, if a dog is going to show signs of dog aggression, it normally shows up at about 18 months old, give or take. We have had so, so many dogs that were awesome social as puppies, and then by the time they were 2, not so much.
It probably is "who she is". You can contact a good behaviorist for help, but at this point I would be very careful with her around other dogs.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Selli-Belle said:


> Is she intact? Does she growl at both males and females or just males?


She's spayed and growls at males and females though I suspect her interactions with intact males only exacerbates the problem.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Why is she growling? Before you can find a solution to the problem, you need to understand why she is doing it. Is she afraid, is she playing, (my dogs 'growl' a lot during play) is she responding (appropriately) to rude behavior from the other dog? Does she follow up the 'growl' with physical aggression - an attack? Pay attention to what her body language is telling you before she gets to the point of growling, is she saying she is nervous, lip licking, looking away, tail down or tucked? If that is what is going on encourage her away from the situation.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

CharlieBear80 said:


> I doubt she's in danger of turning into a flat-out aggressive dog. Deep breath, and contact a professional that can evaluate what you are seeing. She may be reacting appropriately to the way other dogs are approaching her, and she may just be playing rough... hard to say when we don't know that the other dogs are up to, KWIM?


When in playful settings, she does play rough. She mouths the other dogs like she mouths our feet for instance. She loves bitey face play.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Tennyson said:


> At the end of the video you posted it seemed (to me) that Mercy became aggressive at a low level. That it could have escalated if it continued.


Yeah, you saw that huh? It's mysterious how she tends to mouth my feet while also playing with my feet. My husband hates it when she acts this way and calls it aggressive dominance behavior.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Shellbug said:


> I must have missed the video
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 Here it is. 
I can't figure out why she does this during playtime. 
http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...60785-mercy-playing-her-squeaky-football.html


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

KeaColorado said:


> A behaviorist who can witness one of these episodes will be really helpful to you.
> 
> Personally, I'd think long and hard about correcting a growl. That could be her only way to communicate that she finds a situation threatening. If she is trained not to growl, she might decide to go straight for a bite.
> 
> Kea's thing is she puts her hackles up when she feels threatened by another dog. Sometimes she does this when we first go into a new class and there are a bunch of dogs she doesn't know. I reward her with treats for refocusing on me, and that works well.


Yes. This is what I plan on doing for the most part.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

I left a message with a behavioralist. I can't handle another doggy lifetime of dog aggression. I know if I work with her, she won't be a lost cause. I have hope still. I got her with the intent of her being friendly towards everyone man and dog. By God's grace, this WILL be nipped in the bud. My next dog will never set foot within a dog park. I will at all costs make absolutely certain that Mercy plays nice with any new puppy I bring home too.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

KeaColorado said:


> A behaviorist who can witness one of these episodes will be really helpful to you.
> 
> Personally, I'd think long and hard about correcting a growl. That could be her only way to communicate that she finds a situation threatening. If she is trained not to growl, she might decide to go straight for a bite.
> 
> Kea's thing is she puts her hackles up when she feels threatened by another dog. Sometimes she does this when we first go into a new class and there are a bunch of dogs she doesn't know. I reward her with treats for refocusing on me, and that works well.


I agree with this, please do not correct her growling. It is the dogs way of communicating they are not comfortable with a situation, you do not want to teach them not to growl, because then they have no recourse other than to bite.

I have seen you say over the time you have had Mercy that you "won't allow her to be this way". I think you need to understand, dogs are individuals, you can not make Mercy something she is not, you can't make make her NOT be something she is. You can work with her to help minimize a problem, but really you need to see her for who is already is and accept that.

It sounds like Mercy is not completely comfortable with other dogs, you may not be able to identify her trigger since we don't speak dog. You are responsible for protecting her in uncomfortable situations, and redirecting her away from what is setting her off - in a positive way. What you do need to do is recognize her signals and step in when you see she is getting worked up. If she continues to respond this way to other dogs, stop putting her in the situation to be confronted by other dogs.

You have to accept that Mercy is Mercy, and you may not be able to do everything with her that you hoped.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Couple things I picked up on - and this is for you to assess....

1. She has shown some "offish" tendencies when meeting other dogs. This is sometimes just communication between dogs (females telling too-sniffy boys to back off, for example). Sometimes it's a clue to the owner that their dog has learned to take matters in her own hands when it comes to protecting herself. And she feels she has to make that message clear when out playing with other dogs or when she has other dogs staring her down during meetings. 

2. Your own emotions and body language <- These are clues that Mercy is picking up about other dogs approaching. In the other thread you mentioned putting Mercy in a position to protect you and your son when a guy with two loose weims were going past. If you are tense, she is going to pick up on that.

Over all, if Mercy were my dog - I would not be letting her loose with strange dogs too much. She may do better with dogs she knows who respect her boundaries. She may get pushier. 

And I'm not brushing off a little growling, but it seems like sometimes depending on the communications the dogs are receiving at the time from their owners and/or the other dog is coming on to them a little strongly, it's what they do to let everyone know they aren't comfortable.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

mylissyk said:


> I agree with this, please do not correct her growling. It is the dogs way of communicating they are not comfortable with a situation, you do not want to teach them not to growl, because then they have no recourse other than to bite.
> 
> I have seen you say over the time you have had Mercy that you "won't allow her to be this way". I think you need to understand, dogs are individuals, you can not make Mercy something she is not, you can't make make her NOT be something she is. You can work with her to help minimize a problem, but really you need to see her for who is already is and accept that.
> 
> ...


Rest assured, I will not correct Mercy for her growling. I will just refocus my energies in getting her titles in obedience for example even more-so if playing is not her thing anymore. If the interactions are not going to be positive or happy for her, I will have to say bye bye to doggie play.:sadwavey:Just as long as I keep her focus on me, the therapy visits should still not be a problem. I know God called me to that. I don't handle disappointment too well. Can't you tell?:


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Megora said:


> Couple things I picked up on - and this is for you to assess....
> 
> 1. She has shown some "offish" tendencies when meeting other dogs. This is sometimes just communication between dogs (females telling too-sniffy boys to back off, for example). Sometimes it's a clue to the owner that their dog has learned to take matters in her own hands when it comes to protecting herself. And she feels she has to make that message clear when out playing with other dogs or when she has other dogs staring her down during meetings.
> 
> ...


See my response in the thread referenced about the loose dogs. 

I believe in and desire positive playtimes for dogs. I know that I have to be choosy to insure that she only plays with dogs that will play nice with her. I organize meetup groups, so I should hope my member's dog's aren't strangers!:new (9):That's what I have been trying to do her whole life is only play with good dogs. Maybe my sense of judg-ment is slightly impaired. :cookoo: We learn by trial and error. I am still on the hunt for positive influences in Mercy's life. If playtime is no longer an appropriate outlet because dogs make her uncomfortable instead of happy, I will have to make the unpleasant decision to halt all doggie play. I am blessed when I can find play-dates with other nice Golden people in my area.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

If you halt all play with other dogs, how is this going to help Mercy? Imagine yourself put in a place where you can never interact with another human? Is that going to make you feel better about them? 

I think you expect too much from her. You seem to expect her to love every dog she meets. Do you like every person you meet? 

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I agree with Mylissyk, I think you have to accept that Mercy is Mercy and you can't make her be something she isn't.


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## Michele4 (Oct 28, 2012)

Some dogs are just settle into their own pack and just don't want to be bothered with any other interaction. My three all tolerate and I guess love each other but they would not except a playmate into the picture. Not unless it was something permanent. The video show her playing with a squeaky toy, sometimes a sound of a toy that squeaks represents their "prey" dying. This may put her in some type of weird mood where she feels she can act all wild and bitey. Try a toy that doesn't squeak, make it her favorite and see if that makes a difference when she plays.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

laprincessa said:


> If you halt all play with other dogs, how is this going to help Mercy? Imagine yourself put in a place where you can never interact with another human? Is that going to make you feel better about them?
> 
> I think you expect too much from her. You seem to expect her to love every dog she meets. Do you like every person you meet?
> 
> I don't mean to sound harsh, but I agree with Mylissyk, I think you have to accept that Mercy is Mercy and you can't make her be something she isn't.


Lord, have mercy! Do I have to write a book to explain how I have only Mercy's best interest's at heart? Please don't misunderstand me and my motives for Mercy and her care. I am seen as either pushing too much play on her to make her miserable, or as someone banishing her from all happy fun. I said I would reduce or halt play with other dogs only if absolutely necessary. I would much rather not do that. What about that do you not understand? I just want what's best for her and her future! What do I have to do to make myself clear on that? :banghead:


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Sometimes dogs do growl when they play. I have seen it. Rose has seen it and she normally stays away until she is sure it is play and not aggression. Darcy and Rose play constantly and they is play growl all the time. From the video you posted, Mercy is just looking at you as a playmate and not being aggressive towards you. I will need to tape a more recent play time between them. This was when Darcy finally started to play only a few weeks after she joined out family. No growling/vocals at that point. It has changed as she got more comfortable. 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=157556161107954&set=vb.100005607129620&type=3&theater


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## Joanne & Asia (Jul 23, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> This isn't going to be what you want to hear, but here at the pet hotel having had many thousands of dogs around we have noticed that, if a dog is going to show signs of dog aggression, it normally shows up at about 18 months old, give or take. We have had so, so many dogs that were awesome social as puppies, and then by the time they were 2, not so much.
> It probably is "who she is". You can contact a good behaviorist for help, but at this point I would be very careful with her around other dogs.


 I agree with this completely. This describes Asia to a T and is what I have had to do. I am sorry that you are going through this with Mercy. I have found in the 7 years since she started exhibiting some dog aggression that she is really not comfortable with dogs until she gets to know them. She also reacts to my anxiety when dogs approach and goes into protecting me mode. I know it is me and not her that is the problem but haven't been able to figure out how to change it but it has lessened over the years in terms of her level of escalation. When she is not with me and with a variety of dogs, many whom are her friends but new ones who join the pack at times, she is never aggressive. In fact I am told she is the most popular dog among them and submissive yet playful and a role model. It drives me crazy that she only does this with me. 

I am saying this just in case the issue between you and Mercy may be similar. I did get the help of a reputable trainer who helped me figure some of it out but as it has not resolved and she is now 9, I have learned to be careful with her around dogs we don't know and always leash her when we meet dogs when she is hiking with me. I avoid areas where we will run into too many. It sucks but I have accepted it and she is happy so that is all that matters. and like Mercy is an amazing people dog with no aggression issues in that way I really wish I was better at speaking dog and I'm sure you would agree with me there


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Claudia M said:


> Sometimes dogs do growl when they play. I have seen it. Rose has seen it and she normally stays away until she is sure it is play and not aggression. Darcy and Rose play constantly and they is play growl all the time. From the video you posted, Mercy is just looking at you as a playmate and not being aggressive towards you. I will need to tape a more recent play time between them. This was when Darcy finally started to play only a few weeks after she joined out family. No growling/vocals at that point. It has changed as she got more comfortable.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=157556161107954&set=vb.100005607129620&type=3&theater


Thanks for sharing! Love the video! Darcy is adorable and beautiful! I see how you corrected Rose when she started to make Darcy feel uncomfortable. You seem to be really good at decoding doggy body language. I would love to have a mentor who can tell what is really going through Mercy's head when she growls at another dog.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

MercyMom said:


> Thanks for sharing! Love the video! Darcy is adorable and beautiful! I see how you corrected Rose when she started to make Darcy feel uncomfortable. You seem to be really good at decoding doggy body language. I would love to have a mentor who can tell what is really going through Mercy's head when she growls at another dog.


I only corrected because Darcy was new and not comfortable with the play. As she got more accustomed to it I stopped correcting. I actually put my hands between them to make sure they were soft when playing with each other. I knew Rose was soft because I have seen and felt her play with a little dog but as Darcy gained more confidence I needed to make sure she was also soft. 
While some may disagree I have always discouraged tug games. Even in obedience training, when my trainer was teaching marking and asked us to play tug as a reward for marking and retrieving I told her that I am going to do the game except the tugging. Rose's reward was to deliver to hand and a pet on her head and the satisfaction of another retrieve. I was ready to walk out for a couple minutes if she did not agree with my method without any fuss.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

A growl is a warning and does not necessarily mean the dog is aggressive. A growl means a dog is uncertain. I agree with a previous poster that if you correct the growl, it might lead to worse things. In my business, I have to read dogs and decide if it needs a muzzle, needs a tech to hold it, or just is nervous and will warm up, when it growls at me. I have a golden retriever client dog that always growls when I walk in the room. However, she will let me pick her up and do anything with her without a tech holding. She happens to be a timid, uncertain dog. Agree that around 1.5-2 years is when dogs reach social maturity and you start to see their true personality. I am not a fan of letting my dogs sniff other dog noses in general. I think that it is likely that Mercy is uncertain...I would avoid having her go nose to nose with other dogs. Work her in proximity with other dogs, but don't make her feel confronted... On leash, my Tiki has never liked strange dogs in her face, off leash, no problem. I do not consider her aggressive at all, but the context of the leash creates an insecurity in her. As she has aged, she is much less snarky...


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Oh and I recommend the new publication, Decoding Your Dog. Have it on my Kindle...love it.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

I wish I had advice for this  but I do wanna comment on the Darcy/Rose video correction and I believe it's relevant to the idea of this thread... 
Now that Rem is larger than Roxy he is biting her on her back say when she has a chew or toy or is trying to get away.... He does it to get his way because she can't defend her back. Well to get through to him it has to be kind of a firm word.... But every time never fails Roxy acts like I'm getting onto her... so I've tried a little light touch and that works with him, but Roxy still acts like she's in trouble also (she's very insecure since we adopted her from day one)... suggestions Claudia...?

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## KeaColorado (Jan 2, 2013)

I found a few articles that might be of interest to this thread. 

Socializing the Adult Dog | Animal Humane Society

Are They Having a Good Time? | Animal Humane Society

The main point I took away from the articles was that socially mature dogs, particularly females, often do not enjoy playing with other dogs. There are always exceptions, but know that your situation with Mercy is common and is likely in no way a reflection of anything you did or did not do. 

I would definitely say the above is true of Kea. She interacts politely with other dogs, but doesn't necessarily enjoy playing. She does have a small handful of play buddies and she loves playing with puppies. Otherwise, though, she prefers to be left alone after the introductory butt sniffing.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Darcy acted the same. While I am firm, I am not harsh and with time she understood what I meant. Rose even got away with some things and regressed in her training because I could not be stern around Darcy. It took several months before I could even play smack her behind. Darcy was cowering down anytime she saw a hand semi-raised. So after a couple months of nothing but bonding with her I started play smacking her, rubbing her, semi-rough playing with her to build up her confidence that no matter what she was not going to be hurt. With all that she still ran behind the table when I took the flyswatter to catch a fly a couple months ago. I first had to calm myself down because I was livid when I saw her reaction and all I could think about was what did the previous owner put her thru. So I called her and let her retrieve the flyswatter for a couple days just to make her aware that it was not intended for her. After that I softly touched her with it until she wasn't scared of it anymore. 
Question is, how does Roxy respond to Rem? Is Rem really hurting her, is it just play bite. How long have they been together? Darcy and Rose tend to do that when I throw just one Frisbee, one gets it and then the other follows sort of nudging the other's back. 
Before she gains confidence I would stop them with a command they both know (sit) and give them both a little piece of apple or cheese and make sure they see you have something. It is hard to make sure they both get the attention they need and you do not show preference to one over the other. Sometimes you tend to give the new adopted pet more attention and thus you make the "king/queen of the house" jealous. 
It was interesting at first. Rose would keep on pestering Darcy to play. Darcy was on the couch, Rose on the ground. I was going to intervene but decided not to, Darcy needed to learn how to say NO to the little monster. I could tell Darcy did not want to play. Finally Darcy snapped at Rose. Rose backed off, but then Darcy quickly came off the couch and laid on her back in front of Rose. I was happy Darcy finally said NO and was only ready to intervene in case of a fight (which was highly not likely knowing Rose - Rose will never fight for herself unless she thinks I am in danger).
So I would say, bond bond bond, let them know you while you get to know them and correct at first thru play with apples and cheese until you gain their trust.


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## Goldngirl01 (Oct 17, 2013)

*Mercy*

I have 3 of her sisters, & I can put them with ANY other dogs, including strangers that are here for grooming, training or boarding. I have NEVER seen any signs of aggression. Timber lives with 3 of his intact sons...they run & play together without any issues. It worries me that the same issue that your other dog had, now Mercy is showing. Sorry to say, but I feel it's owner/handler oriented. I am sure you are giving body languages, signals etc. that are telling her she needs to be "protective" of you or that she needs to be on the defense. I highly recommend that you get with a trainer that can help you get through this issue. Also personally I don't feel giving treats is the way to solve this...she may think she is getting them for being defensive. I would take the route that she is corrected for ANY signs of defensive behavior...enough that she understands is a correction & NOT acceptable behavior!! Ignoring it will not make it go away....


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Goldngirl01 said:


> Also personally I don't feel giving treats is the way to solve this...she may think she is getting them for being defensive. I would take the route that she is corrected for ANY signs of defensive behavior...enough that she understands is a correction & NOT acceptable behavior!! Ignoring it will not make it go away....


It all depends on how the correction is administered. I personally think that a play correction, such as getting attention and ask for something she knows and then reward that behavior it is a huge plus. Correcting during the behavior can enhance the aggression especially if Mercy senses mom is nervous. IMHO the question to "why is happens" needs to be answered before you answer "How to correct". 

If I understand correctly you go to Petsmart for training. Anyway possible that you ask your trainer to keep Mercy at a safe distance and just watch other dogs play during their puppy play time. Mercy will want to be part of the play and you will get more comfortable. Chit chat with the trainer about the weather and the dinner during this time, something to keep you preoccupied and Mercy cannot sense any worries from you. Progress slowly - over several sessions/weeks towards the dogs playing. Also, since this will go over several weeks, both you and her will be exposed to different dogs playing. If she is not comfortable move back to where she was comfortable and start again.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

MercyMom said:


> Lord, have mercy! Do I have to write a book to explain how I have only Mercy's best interest's at heart? Please don't misunderstand me and my motives for Mercy and her care. I am seen as either pushing too much play on her to make her miserable, or as someone banishing her from all happy fun. I said I would reduce or halt play with other dogs only if absolutely necessary. I would much rather not do that. What about that do you not understand? I just want what's best for her and her future! What do I have to do to make myself clear on that? :banghead:


Apparently I have misunderstood your motives, because what I've seen since you got her is a single minded determination to make her into the perfect therapy dog and nothing will stand in the way of your dream, even if SHE doesn't particularly enjoy that work. 

And I don't mean this as a personal attack, I'm just saying that this is what I've seen and every time she's shown any behavior that doesn't fit that mold, you get all stressed out and more determined to make her fit that picture you have. 

I hope you can get this resolved, for her sake.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

laprincessa said:


> Apparently I have misunderstood your motives, because what I've seen since you got her is a single minded determination to make her into the perfect therapy dog and nothing will stand in the way of your dream, even if SHE doesn't particularly enjoy that work.
> 
> And I don't mean this as a personal attack, I'm just saying that this is what I've seen and every time she's shown any behavior that doesn't fit that mold, you get all stressed out and more determined to make her fit that picture you have.
> 
> I hope you can get this resolved, for her sake.


I admit I did not follow ALL the post on Mercy. There is nothing wrong with having a goal, there is nothing wrong with feeling disappointed when you move away from that goal. I honestly cannot make the assumption that Mercy does not like that work. I will look up for the link from Susan Garrett and post it where it specifically describes the importance of bonding with your dog. 
What is important is Mercy and Mercy's mom finding that bond and learn how to get thru tough times together. 
Any sign of aggression (if indeed it is aggression) should be something worrisome to any dog owner. The fact that she is addressing it does show an interest to solve it.
Rose went thru a time she had a fear of men. I honestly did not know how to address it as it took me by surprise. I was taken aback by my "perfectly" behaved dog. 

Let's try to help her find a way instead of bashing.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Read The Complete Idiots Guide To Dog Training and Decoding Your Dog. Correcting a dog for growling can only lead to something more aggressive. You have to figure out why she is growling...

Growling does not always equal aggression....


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Claudia M said:


> I admit I did not follow ALL the post on Mercy. There is nothing wrong with having a goal, there is nothing wrong with feeling disappointed when you move away from that goal. I honestly cannot make the assumption that Mercy does not like that work. I will look up for the link from Susan Garrett and post it where it specifically describes the importance of bonding with your dog.
> What is important is Mercy and Mercy's mom finding that bond and learn how to get thru tough times together.
> Any sign of aggression (if indeed it is aggression) should be something worrisome to any dog owner. The fact that she is addressing it does show an interest to solve it.
> Rose went thru a time she had a fear of men. I honestly did not know how to address it as it took me by surprise. I was taken aback by my "perfectly" behaved dog.
> ...


I'm sorry, it wasn't intended to "bash" anyone, or to imply that Mercy doesn't enjoy being a therapy dog. I've read about Mercy since the beginning and base my observations on what I've seen. I do hope she can work through this, for Mercy's sake.


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

Have you had Mercy tested for hypothyroidism? It is very common in Goldens and sometimes causes aggressive behavior. If you decide to have the testing done, keep in mind that "low normal" is not normal for Goldens and typically indicates a need for meds, at least according to Dr. Jean Dodds, who is an expert on this subject.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

GoldensGirl said:


> Have you had Mercy tested for hypothyroidism? It is very common in Goldens and sometimes causes aggressive behavior. If you decide to have the testing done, keep in mind that "low normal" is not normal for Goldens and typically indicates a need for meds, at least according to Dr. Jean Dodds, who is an expert on this subject.


When Mercy was getting comprehensive testing as part of her Golden Retriever Lifetime Study screening, I was told by her vet that she had slightly low levels of thyroid and that we would have to be on the lookout. I was told that we would have to monitor her levels. So when I get back to the vet, I will make sure her thyroid levels are checked.


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

MercyMom said:


> When Mercy was getting comprehensive testing as part of her Golden Retriever Lifetime Study screening, I was told by her vet that she had slightly low levels of thyroid and that we would have to be on the lookout. I was told that we would have to monitor her levels. So when I get back to the vet, I will make sure her thyroid levels are checked.


Here's a pointer to a paper by Dr. Jean Dodds that addresses behavioral issues associated with canine hypothyroidism: Dr. Jean Dodds' Pet Health Resource Blog | Aberrant Behavior and Thyroid Dysfunction. Note that she says such behavioral changes are often observed around the age of puberty and/or in young adults.

She also has a book, _The Canine Thyroid Epidemic_, that might be helpful to you: THE CANINE THYROID EPIDEMIC – ANSWERS YOU NEED FOR YOUR DOG - Dogwise Published Items - Dogwise.com.

Because hypothyroidism is also associated with canine seizures, a number of participants in the GRF seizures sub-forum have interacted with Dr. Dodds. She has been very kind about looking at thyroid test results and making recommendations about appropriate levels of medication, often recommending a higher dosage than the local vet would have otherwise prescribed.

Good luck to you and Mercy!


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Goldngirl01 said:


> I have 3 of her sisters, & I can put them with ANY other dogs, including strangers that are here for grooming, training or boarding. I have NEVER seen any signs of aggression. Timber lives with 3 of his intact sons...they run & play together without any issues. It worries me that the same issue that your other dog had, now Mercy is showing. Sorry to say, but I feel it's owner/handler oriented. I am sure you are giving body languages, signals etc. that are telling her she needs to be "protective" of you or that she needs to be on the defense. I highly recommend that you get with a trainer that can help you get through this issue. Also personally I don't feel giving treats is the way to solve this...she may think she is getting them for being defensive. I would take the route that she is corrected for ANY signs of defensive behavior...enough that she understands is a correction & NOT acceptable behavior!! Ignoring it will not make it go away....


 Hi Chris. Yes, it's hard to admit but I do suspect that Mercy's defensive stances do have to do my body language. How can I stop this? I struggle with fears of my own. I am a nervous Nellie, and I am in therapy for low self-esteem, depression and anxiety. I will definitely need a mentor in this case to help me overcome my mistakes especially with the goals I have for Mercy. I am still learning. Knowing is half the battle. I am willing to do whatever needs to be done to overcome my own insecurities. I need a boost in confidence so I can better boost Mercy's confidence. Of course I am turning to trainers for help. I will keep you posted on our progress.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Claudia M said:


> It all depends on how the correction is administered. I personally think that a play correction, such as getting attention and ask for something she knows and then reward that behavior it is a huge plus. Correcting during the behavior can enhance the aggression especially if Mercy senses mom is nervous. IMHO the question to "why is happens" needs to be answered before you answer "How to correct".
> 
> If I understand correctly you go to Petsmart for training. Anyway possible that you ask your trainer to keep Mercy at a safe distance and just watch other dogs play during their puppy play time. Mercy will want to be part of the play and you will get more comfortable. Chit chat with the trainer about the weather and the dinner during this time, something to keep you preoccupied and Mercy cannot sense any worries from you. Progress slowly - over several sessions/weeks towards the dogs playing. Also, since this will go over several weeks, both you and her will be exposed to different dogs playing. If she is not comfortable move back to where she was comfortable and start again.


I am actually taking Novice/Rally classes at the Warrenton Kennel Club on Tuesday evenings. I use Petsmart to practice my homework for classes outside of Petsmart. I did take a couple of classes at this Petsmart, with Vicki Rizzo. This is where I got my CGC. I even talked to Vicki the other night while I was there, and asked her what I should do about the dog aggression, and she said to correct her. I use Petsmart as a place to practice. I know that most of you are advocating treat usage while my breeder Chris and previous trainer Vicki teach corrections. I see the benefits of both. My highest goal is to give Mercy the best training meeting her needs in a way that works best for her. Mercy's happiness is my highest goal. I want to be unselfish and do things that satisfy her and not me. Whatever floats Mercy's boat and helps her to thrive and be the happiest Golden possible is what I want for her.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

The information on hypothyroidism posted by _GoldensGirl_ is very interesting and sounds relevant to Mercy's situation. If I were in your place I would follow up on it.

I've come to realize that there's a lot of similarities between our children and our dogs. We may have goals for them but they are each unique and we have to help them develop their strengths which may not be what we were wishing for. As you may recall, my Zoe was a Delta Pet Partner. We got into therapy work because she seemed to have the temperament and inclination for it. Since losing her, Gracie has joined us and I was hoping to continue therapy work with her partly to honor Zoe and because I feel it's a very worthwhile activity. As Gracie is starting to show herself I'm not sure that she's a good candidate for therapy work but I'm going to try to bring her along and find activities that work for both of us. I guess my thought is just try to accept Mercy and yourself for who you are right now and see how things develop. I think especially with Goldens the prime time for therapy work doesn't come until past 3 yrs. old and often more like 5 yrs. old when the dog is really settled.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

laprincessa said:


> Apparently I have misunderstood your motives, because what I've seen since you got her is a single minded determination to make her into the perfect therapy dog and nothing will stand in the way of your dream, even if SHE doesn't particularly enjoy that work.
> 
> And I don't mean this as a personal attack, I'm just saying that this is what I've seen and every time she's shown any behavior that doesn't fit that mold, you get all stressed out and more determined to make her fit that picture you have.
> 
> I hope you can get this resolved, for her sake.


I admit it. I am selfish at times. But my goals and dreams are good and righteous. It is not about me so much as it is about glorifying God. I am a woman of faith with certain passions, beliefs, morals and values. I was just trying to be prudent and not give up like other irresponsible dog owners tend to do. I am very responsible minded, and I owe a debt to society for my dog having good manners. If you can't see that as an honorable goal, then something is wrong. My goals are right and good and worthwhile for everyone in including Mercy herself. I should not have persuade people to respect me and my goals, seeing them is worthwhile and righteous. It's as if my most important goals don't mean squat! You're not the first one. My Uncle also accuses me of being selfish.: Disrespect of this sort doesn't fly with me. :yuck: I am here to please God and not man! I am not ashamed to continue to fight for my meaningful God given purposes, passions and dreams no matter how man might try to dissuade me. If I can't have the life of meaning God has created for me to have, then why am I here? I seek God's will in this matter more than my own. I care about what God wants more than what other humans and I myself want!


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

laprincessa said:


> I'm sorry, it wasn't intended to "bash" anyone, or to imply that Mercy doesn't enjoy being a therapy dog. I've read about Mercy since the beginning and base my observations on what I've seen. I do hope she can work through this, for Mercy's sake.


And I will too! Oh Yeah! I will need people who are on my side and support me to succeed in this though. I can't do it alone! I need allies who believe in me and will be the cheerleaders I need. I might become discouraged if I have to do this alone.


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

We have a little similar situation, but also very different. Honey always loved dogs and when we adopted her, she fit right in with 3 goldens, no problam at all. She was about 1 1/2 when we adopted her.

When she was about 5 we evacuated to Austin (hurricane) and were at my brothers. She was kept in her large wire kennel inside at night, and loose in the house during the day unless outside on leash as they have a very, very low fence and we were scared she would jump it if she saw a deer at the little stream behind their house.

On our 2ed or 3 rd day there she was laying "froggy doggy" on the floor when their Bassett Hound started towards her. She was "sweeping the floo0r" with her tail in greetings for Belle when suddenly Belle let out a growl and lunched at her. Honey actually had no reaction other than try to get to her feet. My brother grabbed Belle and put her outside. He was so mad at her and said there was no call for that kind of behavior. I felt bad he had put Belle outside becuae it was her house, not Honey's. But he said he would not have Belle browling and trying to attack other dogs in their house or anywhere.

A while later we were at the vets and again Honey was laying froggy doggy style in front me (on leash, naturally) when the exroom door opened and she could hear our vet (who she loves) her tail started going 90 MPH and a guy came out with a fox hound on leash--who lunched ag Honey just snarling up a storm. Honey didn't get up but she did do a low rumble back.

Another time we were in there a guy had 3 rottie pups about 3 months old in a sire cage. I went in and sat in chari with Honey on leash and she just looked at the pups, wagging her tail and I kept her leash short, so she laid down. Two of the puts satin their wagging their tails, the 3rd was standing growling and looking at Honey. She did ignore him.

Then about a year ago we had her in and she was laying her usual froggy doggy stye when I guy came out of exam room with a a lab--who bristled andgrolwed at Honey and this time it was no gentle rumble she responded with by a full growl.

In no case did she do anything to warrant another dog snarling and lunging at her, or in the cae of the one pup, stand up in kennel and growl. But it has reached the point she willnot greet another dog now and if one gets to close she will issue a very low rumble. I ha a chance to get a neutered male golden, 2 yers aold from one of our techs. She brought him out and we introduced them on the sidewalk. He was all tagging tail, golden grin. She was fine until he got about 2 feet from her and then she did the low rumble warning. But her tail had the friendly wag. The tech said in her opinion Honey wanted to be friends, but was scared to be--I had told her of Honey's other encounters with dogs. We both felt if we had them together, but a ;little apart a few times that she would get over it as it appeared she did want to be friends, she didn't growl upon sight, only when he got very close to her. But I decided at her age and having been the only dog since KayCee had died 5 years earlier, I would just keep it that way. Honey is around 12 1/2 now.

There is no reason these other dogs should have acted like they did and both she and I were taken by surprise. I finally decided that for some reason she is an "attack magnet" and other dogs just want to jump on her. So, has Mercy ever been threatened by another dog that you know of?


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

I don't think *laprincessa is saying that your end goal is wrong or that Mercy isn't capable of walking this journey with you. I think what she is saying is that sometimes you seem to push Mercy ahead and expect more than she can give (at this moment) sort of not seeing the individual trees in the forest but the whole forest. *

*You and Mercy have had some outstanding accomplishments more than many pet owners will ever achieve. *

*I truly would suggest picking one of the trainers you know and feel comfortable with that has helped you in the past and ask for their advice on how to slowly get Mercy to be more comfortable around unknown dogs. *

*You have to step back and fix this to truly move ahead with your end goal. She has to feel comfortable and secure around other dogs and trust that you will protect her from encounters that she doesn't want or like.*

*If you spend time with the tree (Mercy) getting her anxieties changed into being comfortable you will be then able to move on into the forest.*

*When dogs reach maturity they don't always want to play with unknown dogs but still are comfortable playing with their friends. *

*For Mercy to continue on the therapy journey she doesn't need to play with other dogs or have other dogs directly in her face. What she needs is to trust you will protect her and to focus on the job at hand when other dogs are around. *


*Please seek one on one help you two will get through this if you take your time and do it right.*


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

MercyMom, I feel I must reiterate what I said previously. I do not agree with your PetSmart trainer telling you to correct her for growling. If she is growling due to uncertainty or anxiety, you will escalate her issues. Additionally dogs that are corrected for growling can easily go to snapping in those situations where they are nervous. I have been showing my own dogs in obedience for 23 years and have worked with dogs every day of my life for almost 28 years... I have a lot more respect for the dog that growls at me versus the last dog that bit me... That dog let me pick her up, was on the table and lunged and bit my forearm... Did not growl once...


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Thank you, Solinvictus
That's exactly what I'm trying to get across, along with the idea that while Mercy Mom's goal is admirable, there may come a time when she has to think that maybe Mercy is not the dog who will help her achieve that goal. And maybe she is that dog. 
I hope for happiness for both of them.

Max has been certified for three years. The last few functions we've attended, he has been less than happy to be there. I got very upset with him, and then stepped back and thought about it. I love doing therapy work. I don't think he does anymore. So we're going to seriously reconsider the type of things we do together, and if necessary, give it up completely. My concern is him, not some plan that I need to fulfill to make me happy.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

3 goldens said:


> We have a little similar situation, but also very different. Honey always loved dogs and when we adopted her, she fit right in with 3 goldens, no problam at all. She was about 1 1/2 when we adopted her.
> 
> When she was about 5 we evacuated to Austin (hurricane) and were at my brothers. She was kept in her large wire kennel inside at night, and loose in the house during the day unless outside on leash as they have a very, very low fence and we were scared she would jump it if she saw a deer at the little stream behind their house.
> 
> ...


I hate to share something so embarrassing in this thread, but the thing I think that brought it on the most was this young unneutered Vizla who humped Mercy in the face at the dog park. :yuck: She growled back at him for what he did, which I don't blame her. It was the last straw for her, I'm afraid. It was not long after that that me met her father. But now she seems to be taking it out on other dogs. I think there are a lot of factors involved here.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

solinvictus said:


> I don't think *laprincessa is saying that your end goal is wrong or that Mercy isn't capable of walking this journey with you. I think what she is saying is that sometimes you seem to push Mercy ahead and expect more than she can give (at this moment) sort of not seeing the individual trees in the forest but the whole forest. *
> 
> *You and Mercy have had some outstanding accomplishments more than many pet owners will ever achieve. *
> 
> ...


I agree with you. I am seeking support right now. I wish I had more support and people who are on my side and are my ally. I don't fell as though I have enough of that. I know that Mercy does not need to play with other dogs to be a therapy dog. Playing with other dogs is another nice fun thing I'd like for her to be able to have. Until recently, yet I still think it happens, Mercy has been pulling towards other dogs to say hello, getting in *their* faces too much. It is disappointing to see Mercy starting to growl at other dogs when she has been wanting to play for the most part. This is a journey and I am still learning about myself and canine behavior. I am not going to force Mercy into something she doesn't feel comfortable with. Sometimes I learn the hard way that an activity is not to my dog's liking. I do overreact a lot also, which may make the situation to appear more serious than it really is. I am a nervous Nellie. I have issues. I am on the Autistic spectrum, so my social skills are not the greatest and they often paint a portrait of me being weird or wrong or selfish. I do feel stressed out too much, but I am seeking wholeness all the time. I also feel concerned that what if I am messing Mercy up? I do have problems with guilt and self-righteousness and perfectionism. I have problems with low-self-esteem. I got Mercy to help me heal and to help others heal as well. I am willing to do anything that must be done. I agree with your advice. I will have to be the squeaky wheel to get help from someone since I'm so uncool and unpopular, but it's gonna get done!


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## Jessie'sGirl (Aug 30, 2010)

Mercy Mom, the thing to do right now is focus on keeping Mercy safe and away from any conflict. When Mercy gets into a scuffle, it takes awhile for her stress hormone levels to settle, so the next time she meets a new dog, she is more likely to react. See your vet and get her thyroid levels done, and make sure the blood is sent to Dr Dodds. Work with a trainer or behaviorist and go from there. If she is OK going to training class without conflict, keep on going, but if this is a source of anxiety for both of you, put it on the back burner for now.
Jess does not like every dog he meets and I know what you're going through. It changes everything . He had been to umpteen million training classes in his first two years, did recreational agility for a year,was so calm as a puppy we laughingly called the ''old man puppy", and then, out of the blue, he turns into Mr. Grumpy. We worked with a trainer, had amazingly good results, for almost a year everything seemed fine, then slowly the grumpiness returned. His thyroid levels were low, he has been on thyroid meds since Dec. Our routine is different now than it was prior to all of this but we are fine. You may or may not be able to eradicate all of these behaviors, but with the proper help, you will be able to manage them.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Mercy''s Mom - Rose was attacked by a GS and a Pit-bull. Not just humped. ATTACKED. My first impulse was to take her straight back into Petco and make sure she meets as many dogs including GSs and PBs as possible. The last thing I wanted was for her to associate one bad encounter with every dog out there. 
I personally grew up scared of GS dogs. But for Rose I had to get over my own fears before we could overcome them together. I used to put Rose in a sit/stay at petco and talk to the GS owner, explain what I was trying to accomplish and ask if he and his GS dog would like to help me. I was turned down by one and had two college kids more than happy to help and in the end we helped each-other. 
If your Petsmart trainer said use correction than I personally would stay away. 
Before you can correct a behavio you have to know why she has that behavior and frankly you do not know until you have someone experienced watch her from a distance to see what triggers that behavior and let you know if it is indeed aggressive.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Have you ever thought Mercy was made to be your own therapy dog? All this emphasis on her helping others, maybe in the grander scheme of life, she was brought here to help you.


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

SheetsSM said:


> Have you ever thought Mercy was made to be your own therapy dog? All this emphasis on her helping others, maybe in the grander scheme of life, she was brought here to help you.


I like this train of thought!


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Sally's Mom said:


> MercyMom, I feel I must reiterate what I said previously. I do not agree with your PetSmart trainer telling you to correct her for growling. If she is growling due to uncertainty or anxiety, you will escalate her issues. Additionally dogs that are corrected for growling can easily go to snapping in those situations where they are nervous. I have been showing my own dogs in obedience for 23 years and have worked with dogs every day of my life for almost 28 years... I have a lot more respect for the dog that growls at me versus the last dog that bit me... That dog let me pick her up, was on the table and lunged and bit my forearm... Did not growl once...


I can certainly respect and embrace your view on the matter. I think for Mercy's sake, she needs positive encouragement. She needs a boost in confidence. I need to be more confident in myself and less stressed so Mercy doesn't pick up on my anxiety. Yes, I had anxiety around my previous dog too. I sure hope the animal behaviorist gets in touch with me. I know that loosing my cool in general will not help Mercy. Just please send positive thoughts my way, since I will need strength to provide the most constructive solution for her.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Jessie'sGirl said:


> Mercy Mom, the thing to do right now is focus on keeping Mercy safe and away from any conflict. When Mercy gets into a scuffle, it takes awhile for her stress hormone levels to settle, so the next time she meets a new dog, she is more likely to react. See your vet and get her thyroid levels done, and make sure the blood is sent to Dr Dodds. Work with a trainer or behaviorist and go from there. If she is OK going to training class without conflict, keep on going, but if this is a source of anxiety for both of you, put it on the back burner for now.
> Jess does not like every dog he meets and I know what you're going through. It changes everything . He had been to umpteen million training classes in his first two years, did recreational agility for a year,was so calm as a puppy we laughingly called the ''old man puppy", and then, out of the blue, he turns into Mr. Grumpy. We worked with a trainer, had amazingly good results, for almost a year everything seemed fine, then slowly the grumpiness returned. His thyroid levels were low, he has been on thyroid meds since Dec. Our routine is different now than it was prior to all of this but we are fine. You may or may not be able to eradicate all of these behaviors, but with the proper help, you will be able to manage them.


My vet sends the blood work to the University of Michigan, but I will share the article with my vet.


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

MercyMom said:


> I can certainly respect and embrace your view on the matter. I think for Mercy's sake, she needs positive encouragement. She needs a boost in confidence. I need to be more confident in myself and less stressed so Mercy doesn't pick up on my anxiety. Yes, I had anxiety around my previous dog too. I sure hope the animal behaviorist gets in touch with me. I know that loosing my cool in general will not help Mercy. Just please send positive thoughts my way, since I will need strength to provide the most constructive solution for her.


Absolutely. The issue with offering rewards (or punishments) is the timing of it... it has to be awfully precise or you may inadvertently be rewarding or punishing a dog for something unintended. 

I think everyone here knows very well that you love Mercy and want the best for her, and we're all hoping for good things for you both.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Of course Mercy is my own therapy dog. I turned to her for comfort in between my visits to the forum.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

I wanted to say that God created all of us with a need to be needed. Part of what helps humans thrive is the ability to do something worthwhile and meaningful.God created dogs for us not us for dogs. Of course helping your dog to thrive is of utmost importance. But if the human need to help others isn't met, a person won't thrive. Fulfillment and meaning is more than a selfish desire. It is a need. Sadly too many people don't understand that. If I can't have a meaningful purpose, I will shrivel up. Using Mercy to share the love and grace of Jesus is my reason for living. If you can't respect the callings that God has placed one's life, then you have a lack of understanding of the true meaning of life. To be politically correct, it is for religious/spiritual reasons that I will not give up on my purpose. Where there is a will, there is a way. If God wants me to serve with Mercy, He will make a way. I have pretty much had to fight for things my whole life. Even with the deep depression and low self-esteem I have had to believe in myself when nobody else would (myself included) As you all can see, I do not give up easily even while I am feel discouraged, depressed, or anxious and doubting myself. Now who will stand by me?


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

MercyMom said:


> I can certainly respect and embrace your view on the matter. I think for Mercy's sake, she needs positive encouragement. She needs a boost in confidence. I need to be more confident in myself and less stressed so Mercy doesn't pick up on my anxiety. Yes, I had anxiety around my previous dog too. I sure hope the animal behaviorist gets in touch with me. I know that loosing my cool in general will not help Mercy. Just please send positive thoughts my way, since I will need strength to provide the most constructive solution for her.


I hope you realize I was not trying to criticize. I wish you and Mercy all of the best. I rely on my guys for emotional strength, so I get it. I was just afraid that you would characterize her as aggressive and train her incorrectly..


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

I won't argue religion with you. You have as much right to your beliefs as I do to mine, an while they are not the same, that doesn't mean yours are any less valid than mine.
I don't believe that dogs were put here to serve our purposes. 
I don't believe that a dog should be forced to do something he or she does not enjoy to satisfy my needs.
I hope that Mercy can be happy and have a great life doing what you wish for her. I hope she enjoys it as much as you do.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

laprincessa said:


> I won't argue religion with you. You have as much right to your beliefs as I do to mine, an while they are not the same, that doesn't mean yours are any less valid than mine.
> I don't believe that dogs were put here to serve our purposes.
> I don't believe that a dog should be forced to do something he or she does not enjoy to satisfy my needs.
> I hope that Mercy can be happy and have a great life doing what you wish for her. I hope she enjoys it as much as you do.


I never said anywhere that I was *forcing* Mercy to meet my needs nor that I felt that I should do so. It says in the bible in Proverbs 12:10 the righteous care for the needs of their animals. I certainly don't wish to disobey that! 

When I say I will not have Mercy be dog aggressive, I am not projecting that against Mercy directly. If I had a broken leg, I would say the same thing e.g. "I will not let my broken leg stop me." I'm not going to correct my leg and tell it to stop hurting. I will handle it with care and help it heal so can get back on my feet. I wish to use treats to encourage her and help her to succeed, not force her to succeed. And besides, Mercy loves doing pet therapy thank you very much.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

Beautiful picture

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## Shellbug (Nov 14, 2013)

MercyMom said:


> Here it is.
> I can't figure out why she does this during playtime.
> http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...60785-mercy-playing-her-squeaky-football.html


? 



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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

MercyMom said:


> Here it is.
> I can't figure out why she does this during playtime.
> http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...60785-mercy-playing-her-squeaky-football.html


Is that you talking on the video? I see Mercy doesn't listen to commands (off the couch, leave the shirt) but honestly, after whoever was constantly talking in the same voice over & over, I had to turn the audio off--wonder if that's what Mercy is doing--just tuning you out, especially after getting her so amped up about the toy. I think there are soooo many factors at play here & are in need of someone that can watch you interact with Mercy as opposed to ideas/advice based on your written word.


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## Shellbug (Nov 14, 2013)

Tennyson said:


> At the end of the video you posted it seemed (to me) that Mercy became aggressive at a low level. That it could have escalated if it continued.


I just don't see this AT ALL. maybe I am missing something ? She seems to be playing. 


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

It didn't seem aggressive mean to me either. Yes, it seemed some communication lacked but the biting clothes, seemed like she wanted to play with you more than the toy at times was all

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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I have one question in this whole thing....why does Mercy NEED to not growl at other dogs to be a therapy dog? I have known a number of therapy dogs who have not been wonderful around other dogs, in most therapy settings (especially visiting patients in hospitals and nursing homes) dogs and their handlers work alone, or at least with only one dog to a team. 

I think most of us would like to have dogs who got along with everyone, or at least we could trust with other dogs, but their not enjoying other dogs really should not interfere with our goals for most activities. I have known plenty of dog selective dogs who can perform at the highest levels of dog sports where they actually are required to be close to other dogs, but they are trained to a level where they don't react to the other dogs and their focus is on their handler. If I could suggest one thing, it would be this.....train, train, train....build that bond between you and Mercy, it will help both of you relax and reach your goals.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

When we got Penny, we thought we'd be doing therapy work with her. She was smart as a whip, trained very easily but, she was excitable. That was her temperament. Her disposition was sweet, kind and loving. You can't change either one...it's how they come. Strike one.

She didn't particularly care for people. Not a cuddler, didn't need to be petted and could give a rat's patoot if I didn't feel good. Strike two.

She never liked other dogs. NEVER. That made her very good off leash because if she saw another dog, she'd come right back to me. She didn't need or want anyone outside of her family. The only dogs that were okay with her were the ones that belonged to other family members. Strike three.

We accepted her for what she was and gave up any idea of doing therapy work with her. She just wanted to be with us, do whatever we were doing. Our goals meant nothing to her. God's calling meant nothing to her. She felt no responsibility to be anything other than what she was.

So we loved her for that. We accepted her dislike of dogs and never asked her to be with any. We loved her quirky sense of humor and her laughing eyes. 

She was just a pet.

When my driving horse died I bought a young horse to teach to drive. I'd taught my first one; why not 'make' a second one. He didn't like it. After giving me hints that he didn't like it, we had our driving accident which made it abundantly clear HE WOULD NOT BE A DRIVING HORSE. No matter that that was all I knew. We can't make them what they don't want to be.

If I were you, I'd keep her away from other dogs and just do your therapy work. She doesn't have to be pals with anyone else. I hope you can accept her just the way she is.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Selli-Belle said:


> If I could suggest one thing, it would be this.....train, train, train....build that bond between you and Mercy, it will help both of you relax and reach your goals.


I would also suggest go back & watch your youtube videos of Mercy. The one at the pool party where you thought she was playing with the border collie--I felt Mercy was harassing the pup--the only thing the dog wanted to do was to fetch the toy & return it to a human for them to throw it again. Mercy just wanted to steal it. Another person in the video actually blocked Mercy from the border collie while you were filming & talking. With that, I wonder how many other interactions were missed that has allowed Mercy to do her own thing & determine in her own head what's acceptable. Please continue with the training, a great opportunity is to not chain her up in the backyard when you have company, work on her manners in the house. 

With so much activity in the house, I think Mercy's greatest accomplishment will be helping her own family & that is nothing to be ashamed of or feel disappointed about.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

SheetsSM said:


> Is that you talking on the video? I see Mercy doesn't listen to commands (off the couch, leave the shirt) but honestly, after whoever was constantly talking in the same voice over & over, I had to turn the audio off--wonder if that's what Mercy is doing--just tuning you out, especially after getting her so amped up about the toy. I think there are soooo many factors at play here & are in need of someone that can watch you interact with Mercy as opposed to ideas/advice based on your written word.


Yes, that is my voice. I know my voice is strange and deep, which is why I tend to stay to myself at social gatherings despite my wanting to connect with others, but am more chatty online. With that said, I often talk to Mercy like she is a human. I don't expect her to listen to me when I talk to her that way. I just do. I talk to my animals like they're people even though I know they can't understand me. I know I'm not the only one! I know was not giving her actual effective commands, but this was playtime, not work time. I talked silly talk on purpose because I wanted to enjoy playing with my dog. I know she's not going to really listen to silly talk. Who wouldn't want to get silly with their goofy playful Golden? I don't like her mouthing me while we play, but I will figure that out in due time.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

MercyMom said:


> I know she's not going to really listen to silly talk. Who wouldn't want to get silly with their goofy playful Golden? I don't like her mouthing me while we play, but I will figure that out in due time.


If you don't like what she's doing, continuing with the silly talk isn't going to resolve the behavior--the more times she's allowed to "blow you off", the more it reinforces her behavior. If she starts mouthing you, then stop the play, stop the attention & allow her to calm down.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

SheetsSM said:


> I would also suggest go back & watch your youtube videos of Mercy. The one at the pool party where you thought she was playing with the border collie--I felt Mercy was harassing the pup--the only thing the dog wanted to do was to fetch the toy & return it to a human for them to throw it again. Mercy just wanted to steal it. Another person in the video actually blocked Mercy from the border collie while you were filming & talking. With that, I wonder how many other interactions were missed that has allowed Mercy to do her own thing & determine in her own head what's acceptable. Please continue with the training, a great opportunity is to not chain her up in the backyard when you have company, work on her manners in the house.
> 
> With so much activity in the house, I think Mercy's greatest accomplishment will be helping her own family & that is nothing to be ashamed of or feel disappointed about.


:uhoh: Oh Gee! Mercy and I are such flops when is comes to social graces!


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

SheetsSM said:


> If you don't like what she's doing, continuing with the silly talk isn't going to resolve the behavior--the more times she's allowed to "blow you off", the more it reinforces her behavior. If she starts mouthing you, then stop the play, stop the attention & allow her to calm down.


 Yes, you are right about that.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

You are right...we all talk silly talk. But it is an earned privilege. Your pup can't sort out the commands from all the "noise" of your silly talk. She is confused and has tuned you out.

It doesn't surprise me that she is aggressive towards other dogs. Unfortunately, you impress her as being ineffective because of all your talking so for her, the best defense is a good offense. Keep it simple, keep it short, keep it relevant. She is a dog, not your best friend and she learns as dogs learn. 

It's going to take a lot of discipline on your part to stick to the subject and not confuse her with so many words.


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

A friend posted this to her Facebook page and I thought it might be useful:

7 Mistakes You're Making in Behavior Modification


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

*I took Mercy to a playdate today and she did well*

I took Mercy to a playdate today through my other meetup group. Sorry, no pictures. She played very nicely with a golden named Franklin. She did sit on him some and started to growl a little, but I was able to discourage her with an EH! (not too harsh sounding) and then treat her when she got off of him. She otherwise had a good time and made a new friend.  Rest assured, she was a happy girl while she was there! I feel so much better that Mercy is being deconditioned already. Franklin is actually a service dog, I found out later during the meetup. He is actually featured on the website where his owner adopted him-> Hero Dogs Inc | Service Dogs for Wounded Veterans Cool huh? His owner is an emotionally troubled veteran. I told her about the board. Hopefully she will join. I love happy endings! 

I will still work with a trainer as needed. I narrowed my search down to one I think I can trust. I am hammering out a time for Thursday afternoon for a consult with this private dog trainer who actually does search and rescue and trains exotic animals too!


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

So you rewarded Mercy for sitting on someone's service dog & growling at it?


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I wondered about that too. 




SheetsSM said:


> So you rewarded Mercy for sitting on someone's service dog & growling at it?


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I wouldn't put too much faith in one outing. I doubt her 'deconditioning' is more than seed. She growled, she sat on him. You have to think in terms of what another dog might do in response. And then what she would do if a dog chastised her for her behavior. 

I know you want to get excited but it takes more time than this. Your excitement and feelings that she is getting better is going to get you both in trouble.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

SheetsSM said:


> So you rewarded Mercy for sitting on someone's service dog & growling at it?


Oh come on! Give me a break!  Really?


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Penny's Mom said:


> I wouldn't put too much faith in one outing. I doubt her 'deconditioning' is more than seed. She growled, she sat on him. You have to think in terms of what another dog might do in response. And then what she would do if a dog chastised her for her behavior.
> 
> I know you want to get excited but it takes more time than this. Your excitement and feelings that she is getting better is going to get you both in trouble.


I am cautiously optimistic actually. Why do you think I will still hire a trainer? I know we are not out of the woods yet. I just like having a glimmer of hope. I was starting to think I was overreacting, but I need to make sure I don't get too emotional in the other direction, I know. I am an emotional person, can't you tell?


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

In this case, being emotional is not going to serve you well, or serve Mercy well. I would put more emphasis on caution than optimism. Remember, YOU are the one who has this calling. Mercy is a dog with no calling except to be a dog. Well-loved to be sure.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Penny's Mom said:


> In this case, being emotional is not going to serve you well, or serve Mercy well. I would put more emphasis on caution than optimism. Remember, YOU are the one who has this calling. Mercy is a dog with no calling except to be a dog. Well-loved to be sure.


I know. I embrace the virtues of King Solomon, including prudency or at least try to. But admit it, you can't keep your face straight at all times when Darcy plays with those toys!


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

MercyMom, have you ever tried yoga or some other type of relaxation therapy? If not, I'd highly suggest it.


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## NewfieMom (Sep 8, 2013)

Penny's Mom said:


> In this case, being emotional is not going to serve you well, or serve Mercy well. I would put more emphasis on caution than optimism. Remember, YOU are the one who has this calling. Mercy is a dog with no calling except to be a dog. Well-loved to be sure.


I am going to make a personal statement that may or may not be helpful to you and your relationship to God, MercyMom. I have been taught to pray, "Thy will, not mine, be done, Lord". 

That is very tough to say and mean and as I pray it I often don't want to let go of my own will, my own sense of what I think God wants me to do.

I am trying to accept that the world will be the way He decides it will be and it is my job, sometimes, to have the grace to accept it.

One of the hardest things for me to accept has been that my only child is mentally ill and that she will probably never marry. I will probably never have grandchildren and all the silver I had hoped to pass down; the special pieces of jewelry I had hoped to give to my daughter; the special pieces of furniture that have been in my family; will never go to her as I had hoped. 

The college fund I started when she was a baby and contributed to so patiently is useless.

All my dreams for her have been shattered. I do not know if she will survive once I die or if she will kill herself.

I had thought my "mission" in life was to raise a happy child. I guess I was wrong. I am trying to adjust.

I hope you are not offended by my posting. It is really about me. I don't know if it applies to you. But I remember the saying I heard in an old movie that, "When God closes a door, He opens a window". Perhaps if Mercy isn't going to be a therapy dog (and I don't know that), something else that is even better is meant to be.

I am sure God did not lead you here to give up on you, but He may not have shared all His plans with you.

NewfieMom


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

NewfieMom said:


> I am going to make a personal statement that may or may not be helpful to you and your relationship to God, MercyMom. I have been taught to pray, "Thy will, not mine, be done, Lord".
> 
> That is very tough to say and mean and as I pray it I often don't want to let go of my own will, my own sense of what I think God wants me to do.
> 
> ...


You are a very special lady..."When God closes a door, He opens a window". That is so true...Thank you for sharing this post...


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

NewfieMom said:


> I am going to make a personal statement that may or may not be helpful to you and your relationship to God, MercyMom. I have been taught to pray, "Thy will, not mine, be done, Lord".
> 
> That is very tough to say and mean and as I pray it I often don't want to let go of my own will, my own sense of what I think God wants me to do.
> 
> ...


I am so sorry about your daughter dear! I have gotten some supportive PMs encouraging me not to give up on the therapy route. Just because Mercy might not be a good playmate (we still don't even know that either) that will not affect her therapy work. It is only dogs I willingly allow her near that she shows this too so far. My Lab/GSD might have lunged at a St. Bernard during a therapy visit, but his aggression by that time was a lot worse. Mercy does not lunge at dogs a few feet away like my last dog did, praise God! I will make sure she never gets that bad by helping her with patience and grace to succeed. 

I agree with the verse: Not my will but yours. Believe me, I already pray that prayer. I pray to God all the time doing my best to submit to his will. I have thought of Mercy being a celebrity, but I am still not sure how to get there yet!


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

If you could clarify for me: being dog aggressive does or does not have anything to do with her therapy work.

I am wondering why you feel she must play with other dogs. I would make her comfortable in her world, let her do her therapy work and leave it at that.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Part of the evaluation process for Max to be certified involved him not reacting to other dogs. The dogs are expected to notice each other, but not to react strongly. (A tail wag is not a problem, lunging in that direction or growling would be.) The reason for this is that we often work in groups. One of the last events that Max and I went to was a basketball game at the college, where there were probably 10 dogs. 

Mercy Mom is doing the right thing by addressing this before it becomes a problem - it will impact what she can do with Mercy if she is to continue with this work. I wish her the best in this journey. 

If Mercy is not comfortable with other dogs, and it can't be changed, then it will be up to Mercy Mom to rethink her role as a therapy dog. Hopefully that will not be necessary.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

ragtym said:


> I posted this in another thread as well:
> 
> An excellent blog post from one of my favorite trainers, Connie Cleveland. It includes information on how to get a pdf copy of some of her articles on dealing with aggression.
> 
> A Language Barrier. Aggression.


I sent an e-mail to the Dog Trainers Workshop, and I heard back from someone named Cat Perry, not Connie Cleveland. I did not like her dimeanor one bit. She was way too stern and tough! :yuck: Her attitude was not to my liking. My in-person dog trainer should be much better.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Penny's Mom said:


> If you could clarify for me: being dog aggressive does or does not have anything to do with her therapy work.
> 
> I am wondering why you feel she must play with other dogs. I would make her comfortable in her world, let her do her therapy work and leave it at that.


Did you not read my post from above? I said that I know that Mercy does not need to be playful to be a therapy dog.


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## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

Your anxiety towards Mercy's problems shows in your forum posts. Not in just this thread but every thread where you mention her problem.
If your anxiety exudes on this forum, 100-1 Mercy is feeling your anxiety as well.
Relaxing is an art form and any art form needs a ton of practice.


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## NewfieMom (Sep 8, 2013)

MercyMom said:


> I have gotten some supportive PMs encouraging me not to give up on the therapy route. Just because Mercy might not be a good playmate (we still don't even know that either) that will not affect her therapy work. It is only dogs I willingly allow her near that she shows this too so far. My Lab/GSD might have lunged at a St. Bernard during a therapy visit, but his aggression by that time was a lot worse. Mercy does not lunge at dogs a few feet away like my last dog did, praise God! I will make sure she never gets that bad by helping her with patience and grace to succeed.


I am very happy to hear that Mercy's current traits are not inconsistent with therapy work. I know that you may very well change some of them with the help of a trainer if they are not genetic. (And I read that one poster wrote that he had some of her siblings who did not share the trait, so in all likelihood the traits are not genetic.) However, if the tendency toward dog aggression is not an issue in her doing therapy work with humans, that is even better. Whatever the case, I wish you and Mercy all the best.

And I thank you for _your_ good wishes!

Warm hugs,
NewfieMom


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

NewfieMom said:


> I am very happy to hear that Mercy's current traits are not inconsistent with therapy work. I know that you may very well change some of them with the help of a trainer if they are not genetic. (And I read that one poster wrote that he had some of her siblings who did not share the trait, so in all likelihood the traits are not genetic.) However, if the tendency toward dog aggression is not an issue in her doing therapy work with humans, that is even better. Whatever the case, I wish you and Mercy all the best.
> 
> And I thank you for _your_ good wishes!
> 
> ...


But it WILL be an issue if her organization is anything like ours.
Dogs CANNOT be aggressive towards each other in any way. My best friend's granddog failed the evaluation because she growled and barked at another dog.


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## olliversmom (Mar 13, 2013)

There is so much going on here. 
Much of our dog's behavior stems from what they get from us, rather than inborn tendencies. Sure, dogs are born with certain traits or dominant tendencies, and their own unique personalities, but I believe environment and owner training techniques are the more crucial factors that determine how a pup will turn out.

About Mercy: dogs are quite intuitive and pick up on the slightest fear/anxiety, we on the other end of the leash transmit, even unknowingly. If you are feeling anxiety, stress, whatever, Mercy will be channeling that.

About You: You say that you suffer with personal insecurities and anxiety etc. And you said your last dog had aggressive tendencies as well. It may be you are transmitting your own insecurities and anxiety on to the other end of the leash, on to Mercy, unknowingly. 
(And please understand-I am not judging you at all. Been there, have had lotsa bumps along the road in my own life. If anyone tells you that life is easy, don't believe 'em!).

So if you look to yourself and your relationship with your dog(s), maybe there is a kinda transference. Maybe you are trying a redo of your own life thru Mercy.
You say u may not be a social butterfly. Maybe the friendship thing doesn't come easy for you. That's okay. Social stuff can be really hard for many of us. We all need lessons in people interactions and overall self improvement and you are commendably working thru different channels to help yourself become a more rounded person. 

But given that, do you feel your worriedness and anxiety about Mercy not having friends, not getting along, is because you are putting your own anxious feelings about the difficulty of cultivating friendships on to her? 
Maybe what you want for Mercy, doggie friends and happy playdates, etc , is not really what Mercy wants or needs for her life to be full.

You know, sometimes if I am feeling blue or feeling lonely, then everything that day will be colored by my sad mood. I will think even strangers are looking at me funny. And that day passes and the next day I wake up and all is good in the world. But I think it is no coincidence that on those crappy days, Olliver acts out the most and is clingy, mimicking my own needy mood.

So, I kinda think at this point, maybe you and Mercy need to step back a little bit. Take the pressure off yourself and Mercy about the therapy work and the dog socialization for a bit. Not forever! Just a little reprieve. And just spend some quality time with Mercy getting reacquainted through simple, solitary walks and exercise. 

Laugh, be easy, smile, walk some tranquil paths together and see if that may not make a bit of difference. Then look to a trainer to evaluate the dynamic between you and your pup. And go from there. One step at a time. No pressure, just work with your pup and see what transpires.

It may or may not be in the cards for Mercy to do therapy work. As you are a person who follows Christ, let things play out as they invariably will if you let them, not force them. What is the saying? Let Go And Let God?

My very best wishes for Mercy and for you. My hope, is not that Mercy has tons of doggie friends, or that she acquires 30 badges and honors for her therapy work. My hope is that she brings you happiness and shows you how loveable a person you are in her eyes. Then, you can begin to believe it yourself  Robin


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Mercy Mom, the trainer coming out to do an evaluation of Mercy and you will be able to see your interactions with her better than any of us can over the internet and a few videos that are posted. I think he/she is going to observe some of the same things that others saw and posted about here. I trust and hope he/she will be able to work with you through these things and you will end up happier with Mercy's behavior, happier with yourself and best of all you will build an even more wonderful bond with Mercy, whether it's therapy in a formal setting, or therapy work in unforseen ways outside of formal therapy group work. Slowing things down like suggested by Robin above and taking time to work with the trainer may just be the key to getting back on track with her. If you stop and think about it, Mercy is already very accomplished! She's a CGC, and advanced CGC and has her therapy credentials through one of the big two groups. She's still young and still has some maturity to achieve and maybe she just needs more time.


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Tennyson said:


> Your anxiety towards Mercy's problems shows in your forum posts. Not in just this thread but every thread where you mention her problem.
> If your anxiety exudes on this forum, 100-1 Mercy is feeling your anxiety as well.
> Relaxing is an art form and any art form needs a ton of practice.


I understand this. I am meeting with a pastor this Thursday. I have anxieties and insecurities, but I expect this pastor to effectively help me so I can feel the love of God and find new found peace.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Mercy Mom*



MercyMom said:


> I understand this. I am meeting with a pastor this Thursday. I have anxieties and insecurities, but I expect this pastor to effectively help me so I can feel the love of God and find new found peace.


Praying for you that the pastor will help.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

While a therapy dog cannot be outright aggressive with other dogs, they don't need to play or really interact with other dogs. Almost any dog can be trained to be in close quarters with another dog and not react badly. Clear consistent training will also relax Mercy and increase her confidence.


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## JBG (Feb 14, 2011)

laprincessa said:


> I think you expect too much from her. You seem to expect her to love every dog she meets. Do you like every person you meet?


Is this dog as vicious with people as Golden's often are?


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## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

JBG said:


> Is this dog as vicious with people as Golden's often are?


Nope. The problem is still relatively minor. I use those terms loosely.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

JBG said:


> Is this dog as vicious with people as Golden's often are?


IDK what Golden Retrievers you have been around, but I have YET to meet a "vicious" one. Some have bad behaviors, and some can look quite mean when they are in the midst of a "bitey-face" game, but vicious is over-the-top.


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## JBG (Feb 14, 2011)

Brave said:


> IDK what Golden Retrievers you have been around, but I have YET to meet a "vicious" one. Some have bad behaviors, and some can look quite mean when they are in the midst of a "bitey-face" game, but vicious is over-the-top.


Hitting with tails, dropping tennis balls on people's feet, etc.


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## Shellbug (Nov 14, 2013)

JBG said:


> Hitting with tails, dropping tennis balls on people's feet, etc.


Lol?


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

JBG said:


> Hitting with tails, dropping tennis balls on people's feet, etc.


Mine is an absolute terror. Not only does he do all that, he LICKS my hands!


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## NewfieMom (Sep 8, 2013)

Selli-Belle said:


> While a therapy dog cannot be outright aggressive with other dogs, they don't need to play or really interact with other dogs. Almost any dog can be trained to be in close quarters with another dog and not react badly. Clear consistent training will also relax Mercy and increase her confidence.


 This was a very helpful posting to me, Selli-Belle. I am not planning on training my dog, who happens to be a Newfoundland, to be a therapy dog (although many Newfies are). But I have been trying to learn as much as I can from this thread. When I read about how a dog was expected to interact (or, in this case, not interact) with other dogs I couldn't see Griffin being able to do it. 

I can control him on the leash by putting him into a sit-stay. (That is how we stop him from paying an exuberant visit to the FedEx man or the mailman while out on a walk.) However, if he were on his own in a crowd of other dogs, he would want to socialize. He is very friendly.

I was glad to read that I could train him not to react to other dogs the way he usually does.

NewfieMom


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## JBG (Feb 14, 2011)

laprincessa said:


> Mine is an absolute terror. Not only does he do all that, he LICKS my hands!


Remember dogs are related to wolves.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

JBG said:


> Remember dogs are related to wolves.


I think my fingers are in serious danger
Gotta get more lotion!


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## Shellbug (Nov 14, 2013)

Thor is very dangerous. After being almost licked to death he literally falls on his back (to expose his belly) at my feet, almost knocking me over. One fell swoop and I could be in an extremely dangerous situation. 


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

C'mon guys, MercyMom is a real person with real issues looking for help from her pup who if not trained properly could be sent down the wrong path.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

SheetsSM said:


> C'mon guys, MercyMom is a real person with real issues looking for help from her pup who if not trained properly could be sent down the wrong path.


Oh, come on - a little fun isn't going to distract from the real issue, which I think has been addressed very well here.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

laprincessa said:


> Oh, come on - a little fun isn't going to distract from the real issue, which I think has been addressed very well here.


I hear you, but I also look at my friend's daughter who is on the autism spectrum and wonder how she will grow up to be. She has the weight of the world on her shoulders now at a young age, I can't even imagine what it must be like to be MercyMom to have the intellect but have such social issues that it is hampering her ability to achieve the desired goals with her own dog. It's very easy for us to give advice & then get frustrated that the advice isn't being followed (it certainly frustrates me) without understanding that the logic we use & social cues we're aware of aren't the same for the OP. With the last several posts, it's as if we have totally dismissed the OP's concerns--unfortunately, it will be Mercy that will pay the price. MercyMom isn't a drop-in poster giving up after a mere 24 hrs, she is someone that has been working with her pup from day one & I think our posts should give her a little more credit.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

OK, I've stayed out of this thread because I see both sides.... so saying anything it seemed would make it sound as if I was picking sides.. But I'm not so here it goes. 

Raising a dog is similar to raising a child to me. Your parents did it one way, society said do it this way, and research says it's all wrong to do it a new way. Everyone has an opinion on what is best, most feel the way they do it is best... But when it all comes down to it, my husband was spanked as a child and I was say down to be talked to instead. End result? We both grew up, loving life, have great careers, education, etc.

Everyone has a way to raise a child. Everyone sees raising that child differently. The main most important thing is that we love that child and do our best for them.
Not do your neighbors best, not our parents best, or the psychologist's best, but YOUR best for them and yourself. 
End semi-ontopic speech.

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## NewfieMom (Sep 8, 2013)

SheetsSM said:


> MercyMom isn't a drop-in poster giving up after a mere 24 hrs, she is someone that has been working with her pup from day one & I think our posts should give her a little more credit.


You are right. I am one of those people who is easily distracted by threadjacks and humor and I found the comment about a Golden dropping tennis balls on someone's feet so evocative that I got pulled away from the purpose of the thread. But that was the part of me that was unruly and not under proper control, like a child watching some silly boy in the back of a classroom while a teacher was explaining a lesson of value in the front of the room. I completely agree that MercyMom and her problem deserves our attention. I know how dedicated she is to working with Mercy and she has already accomplished an enormous amount. My dog can barely sit and stay and Mercy already has two (I believe it is two) titles!

NewfieMom


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## JBG (Feb 14, 2011)

SheetsSM said:


> I hear you, but I also look at my friend's daughter who is on the autism spectrum and wonder how she will grow up to be.


I have a son on the spectrum. The outlook can be quite good. There is a lot that can be accomplished by way of socialization. My son is 16 and miles ahead of where he was when he was 8.


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