# The price of a golden



## Emmysourgolden (Oct 10, 2007)

The thread about whether or not to breed a golden has got me thinking. I AM NOT trying to start a fight here. I'm curious to hear everyone's opinions.

I'm not even sure how much anyone that breeds on this forum charges for a pup. I do know from when we were searching for a puppy, 6 years ago, some of the prices were WAY out of our price range. I think we paid $300 for Em. We, were pretty clueless back then about all the clearances...etc. Had we only accepted those with all the clearances...etc I don't think we'd have a golden today because of the price. 

The people we got Emmy from had both parents and this was their second litter. My sister got one from their 3rd and last litter and it did end up with hip dysplasia. The breeder gave the purchase price back to my sister and immediatedly had the parents spayed and neutered. Even with that, I'm still so thankful for this couple because we got our Emmy from them and they really did love the dogs. Our vet even was the parents vet and highly recommended their pups knowing the parents. They did have great hunting bloodlines, great temperments...beautiful. 

Anyway, my question is what about those who can't afford to spend top dollar for a golden companion?


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## Bailey & Bentley (Feb 25, 2007)

There are some really expensive goldens out there. 

I paid 650 for Bailey and 700 for Bentley.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I am in that boat. So I buy from BYB anyway or I rescue. Not ashamed to admit it. It's just my reality. BTW I can get a top show quality pick of the litter dog from health cleared champion parents in another breed for half what Golden show breeders charge for a pet quality puppy.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I paid $700 for pick male out of five top TOP show quality Whippet puppy from tested parents and a world famous whippet breeder judge.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

BTW when I have bought a BYB GR I make sure it's a one time family pet litter, NOT a high volume or miller. Keira was $300 or $350, can't remember which.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

I personally do not believe lack of funds is any excuse to support breeders who aren't looking out for the long term health, longevity, etc. of the breed. These dogs are then bred again and generations of breeding for anything but health produce lines with many problems, such as we have today.

If you can't afford to buy from a breeder who is following GRCA guidelines and is breeding for temerament and health, then RESCUE!!! There are so many goldens that need good homes, go to a rescue or your town shelter. Goldens are given away all the time, and trust me--these are wonderful goldens...not damaged goods. 

There is no excuse to support puppy mills--if you can go and visit one and in good conscience still buy from them, then god bless you.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

It really does suck... but I also don't think I should not be able to have the breed of my choice. I also wonder why a TOP of the line top name breeder of other breeds doesn't charge NEARLY what Golden people do. 

I don't support puppy mills. EVER. Someone who breeds his ONE pet dog once in its life time is not a puppy mill.

And I do rescue- and got a $1200 show bred Golden for free just last month LOL


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## Emmysourgolden (Oct 10, 2007)

GoldenShamus said:


> I personally do not believe lack of funds is any excuse to support breeders who aren't looking out for the long term health, longevity, etc. of the breed. These dogs are then bred again and generations of breeding for anything but health produce lines with many problems, such as we have today.
> 
> If you can't afford to buy from a breeder who is following GRCA guidelines and is breeding for temerament and health, then RESCUE!!! There are so many goldens that need good homes, go to a rescue or your town shelter. Goldens are given away all the time, and trust me--these are wonderful goldens...not damaged goods.
> 
> There is no excuse to support puppy mills--if you can go and visit one and in good conscience still buy from them, then god bless you.


I agree you can rescue. However, we have two little boys that deserved a puppy. 
We had visited Emmy's breeders 2 times, I thought 3 but I can only remember twice so it must have been twice, before actually picking her up and had no hesitation wtih getting her. I do feel like they bred for health and temperment. They also had great field hunting backrounds. Which she is a great little hunter...:nchuck:

I agree puppy mills are terrible! I can't say this family was...they were great.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> It really does suck... but I also don't think I should not be able to have the breed of my choice. I also wonder why a TOP of the line top name breeder of other breeds doesn't charge NEARLY what Golden people do.
> 
> I don't support puppy mills. EVER. Someone who breeds his ONE pet dog once in its life time is not a puppy mill.
> 
> And I do rescue- and got a $1200 show bred Golden for free just last month LOL


ACC, what do you spend the money for? If you're not getting a dog with generations of health clearances and a sound golden buiilt to match something as close as possible to the standard, then what are you paying for? 

I'll never forget my veterinarian asking me where I got Shamus from and saying to me, that she sees so many goldens in my area that don't fit the standard (and I am NOT talking about looks), I am talking about temperament and health! She wanted the name of my breeder so that she could refer people b/c she's so tired of seeing so many goldens who are aggressive, etc.

Yes, it is my opinion that people that are not completely invested in breeding goldens for the right reasons shouldn't be breeding them. I do not advocate that people buy from these people. We have a lot of work to do if we are going to irrridacate health problems out of the breed, and it will never happen completely, but we can lessen the chances statistically by breeding only healthy dogs.

You asked why top breeders charge more, I don't know what you mean by top? I dont' think the breeder I got Shamus from would fit into that category b/c she's not incredibly well-known. But, anyway, I paid $1200 for Shamus, but I wasn't buying a 'show dog', IMO, for me, I was buying as much of a guarantee as possible that I was going to get a healthy dog. I had just lost my 6 year old lab to cancer...my heart was broken and I was buying for health, period.

In the future, after becoming a rescue volunteer, my conscience will never allow me to buy a puppy again. I just don't see it happening. Too many wonderful goldens being put to sleep and/or needing good homes.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I am torn because it really is unfair but there's no good solution unless one of you people with $1200 dogs wants to buy me one 

Luckily I have my Zan Man!


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## Bonni (Apr 12, 2005)

We got Daisy from Joe and Vierka's dog Kia. She is not a show dog, she has not passed all of the clearances and Joe and Vierka certainly do not run a puppy mill. Kia had one litter and was then spayed. I can't imagine not having Daisy in our lives, craziness and all. If she gets displasia or another illness, we'll deal with it. 

I honestly, don't have any issues with a pet owner responsibly allowing their dog one or two litters, or more if they can house all of the puppies. The important thing is that the dogs find good homes. I think the dog owner must be ready to take on an additional one or two dogs, if they all can't get placed. If they're not ready for that possibility, then they may want to reconsider breeding their pet. 

By the way, Daisy cost us $400 and worth every cent!


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Emmysourgolden said:


> I agree you can rescue. However, we have two little boys that deserved a puppy.
> We had visited Emmy's breeders 2 times, I thought 3 but I can only remember twice so it must have been twice, before actually picking her up and had no hesitation wtih getting her. I do feel like they bred for health and temperment. They also had great field hunting backrounds. Which she is a great little hunter...:nchuck:
> 
> I agree puppy mills are terrible! I can't say this family was...they were great.


Actually, my personal belief is that yes, puppies are fun, but with little kids, I'll always prefer to have a dog that is 2 yrs. old or older, the dog is trained, well-behaved, and is just at the right age for children. I'm so psyched that Shamus will be 4 or 5 when we have a baby, I cannot imagine having a puppy at the same time as having little children. But, that's just me.

I also am not of the belief that kids 'deserve a pup', I'll never deprive my kids of a dog, heck I'll never deprive myself of a dog, but I don't think it needs to be a puppy. I think that philosophy gets a lot of dogs in trouble as so many end up in rescue as adults.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I asked why a TOP, famous person in Whippets would only charge half what a small time hobby show person in Goldens charges. Why are Goldens so much more than almost every other breed there is? No other breed I know except the C section breeds like Frenchies is $1200 for a pet.

When I paid $300 for Keira (BYB Golden) I got a dog that is absolutely the standard in temperament, and pretty darn cute too.


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## Emmysourgolden (Oct 10, 2007)

The reason this family breed more than once is because they had people wanting pups. Like, when we visited and we were early on...we had 2 that weren't spoken for.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

GoldenShamus you know I respect you and if I had the money I'd completely agree but I don't so I sympathize with others who don't.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I don't think people are bad to want a puppy. If you don't, and would rather adopt, DO so, it's a wonderful thing! Obviously I agree as I am very heavily involved in rescue and adoptions


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> I asked why a TOP, famous person in Whippets would only charge half what a small time hobby show person in Goldens charges. Why are Goldens so much more than almost every other breed there is? No other breed I know except the C section breeds like Frenchies is $1200 for a pet.
> 
> When I paid $300 for Keira (BYB Golden) I got a dog that is absolutely the standard in temperament, and pretty darn cute too.


Personally, I'd like a breeder on here who does all health clearances, etc. to answer your question about where the money goes in their program, but trust me, there are reasons you pay more when buying a dog from a breeder who is selling you a dog that they themselves have shown, done agility with, tracking, field work, competitive obedience, etc.

The reason what that is important to me isn't b/c I want to do tracking with my dog, or whatever, but because it is proof that the dog can do what it is supposed to be bred to do. That's why the AKC and all local clubs hold trials all the time. 

You're also paying for breeders who are using proven studs/bitches that are going to cost more and health clearances, etc.

I'm just saying, if you want a purebred golden but don't have the money to buy one from a breeder that is doing the above things, rescue! That's what I'll do in the future.

I have to say though, goldens are an expensive breed to take care of medically, so if one can afford a $400 breeder but not a $1000 breeder, I hope that they will be able to afford medical expenses down the road. It worries me as I've seen dogs given back to rescue for just that reason--they couldn't pay a vet bill. Just some food for thought.

(Now I'm going to play possum :wavey


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> GoldenShamus you know I respect you and if I had the money I'd completely agree but I don't so I sympathize with others who don't.


Ditto, ACC--I respect you, too. I'm very heartwarmed by the rescues that you have taken in, I think you are a wonderful person. 

I always feel like these threads get personal, at the end of the day, I don't mean them to. For me, it is truly only about the dogs. Someone on here for sure, will take what I'm saying personally. It always happens...


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Your thoughts are valued! 

But my Whippets breeder DOES show- EVERY weekend, plane flights, all over the country! And does all the expensive heart ultrasounds and everything. And her pets are half what a GR pet is from a show person in this area.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

The only thing I can think of is that more people want Goldens than want Whippets so Golden people CAN charge 1200, where as Whippet people can only charge 600!


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> The only thing I can think of is that more people want Goldens than want Whippets so Golden people CAN charge 1200, where as Whippet people can only charge 600!


Yeah, I agree. Look at labradors (another breed I happen to love), for the same quality of dog, you can get a lab cheaper than a golden.

There are also many health problems in that breed, also. I lost my 6 yr. old yellow lab to cancer, that boy had my heart. I still miss him everyday, and can't believe he died so young. 

Health is everything to me now, looks are not nearly as important and should be less important than health and temperament in my opinion.

(Okay, playing possum now...LOL)


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## Emmysourgolden (Oct 10, 2007)

GoldenShamus said:


> Actually, my personal belief is that yes, puppies are fun, but with little kids, I'll always prefer to have a dog that is 2 yrs. old or older, the dog is trained, well-behaved, and is just at the right age for children. I'm so psyched that Shamus will be 4 or 5 when we have a baby, I cannot imagine having a puppy at the same time as having little children. But, that's just me.
> 
> I also am not of the belief that kids 'deserve a pup', I'll never deprive my kids of a dog, heck I'll never deprive myself of a dog, but I don't think it needs to be a puppy. I think that philosophy gets a lot of dogs in trouble as so many end up in rescue as adults.


That's okay that we have different opinions on that. For us, those puppy days when the boys were little are some of our best family memories. It was alot of work but worth it. I would see rescueing a better option when the boys are older, not when they were as little as when we got Em. You don't KNOW the dog at first. There's no way I would have risked that. With a puppy we were able to train her, as you could a rescued dog, but there are a lot of unknown's that I wouldn't put in my house with little kids. You know a puppy is going to nip and chase....a 2 year old or older maybe have had something happen to the poor thing that it's not good with kids...you just don't know.


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## Bonni (Apr 12, 2005)

Now that we're onto contraversial topics, I have a question that I would like to throw into the proverbial ring and see what comes back. 

One thing I've always wondered about breeders and the doggie-type is why is it so important to have a dog that's perfect, especially if the dog is solely intended as a pet/companion/member of the family? If you're going to show your dog in any way, shape or form, I can totally understand the need for perfection, but for the average joe who's just looking for a good friend, I have a hard time understanding why the dogs must be a certain way.

We're not nearly this particular with our own children, although I guess if we could control for certain factors we would (wouldn't that be boring...everyone looking the same way). Daisy has a huge black dot on her head and I absolutely love it, however, if I wanted to show her, she would be penalized for this. Doesn't that seem wrong? It's just a dot. Imagine if we did that to our children...you're eyes are the wrong colour, your hair isn't straight/curly/wavy enough, your too tall, too thin, too heavy, too short. Good thing dogs don't understand all of this judgement. 

Anyway, the need for "perfection" in the dog world totally fascinates me. Maybe I'm just a simpleton...don't know. All I know is that your buddy is your buddy and it shouldn't matter that his father won agility or his mother was best in show. 

Ok. Fire away! :curtain:


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Hey I'll ALWAYS agree that health and temperament are more important than looks!!!! Which is why we love poor little Keira... HA just kidding. She's cute. She's not pretty like Zander but she's adorable and I LOVE her sleek, athletic build. SO what she will never have tons of blonde fluffy hair. She is a fast, smart, healthy, working, loving dog.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

This is putting it simply; people will charge, what people can get. 

I would be more than willing to buy from a hobby breeder who belongs to the clubs, has dogs with clearances, and comes highly recommended, and does not take part in shows etc... I was put on a waiting list of a hobby breeder who came highly recommended by breeders who are TOP in this area.


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## Emmysourgolden (Oct 10, 2007)

Bonni said:


> Now that we're onto contraversial topics, I have a question that I would like to throw into the proverbial ring and see what comes back.
> 
> One thing I've always wondered about breeders and the doggie-type is why is it so important to have a dog that's perfect, especially if the dog is solely intended as a pet/companion/member of the family? If you're going to show your dog in any way, shape or form, I can totally understand the need for perfection, but for the average joe who's just looking for a good friend, I have a hard time understanding why the dogs must be a certain way.
> 
> ...


LOL, my hubby always says, too bad people didn't think as much about breeding as people do their dogs...lol


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I agree!!!!! SO MUCH! But I have to say one thing. Why did you get a Golden? And not a cute mutt? You wanted certain traits... if breeders totally threw the standard to the wind, then Goldens would just be like the cute dogs at the shelter. Not Goldens anymore. So in that regard, only typical dogs should be bred. Where does the line get drawn to typical and nontypical? My red girl, Keira, would NEVER win a show, but is still a recognizeable, typical golden. In fact more people know her breed than Zanders, bc show Goldens like Zander are not often seen walking around in public here, but red ones are seen everywhere. I for one think following the standard does NOT have to mean breeding show dogs- working Goldens are as correct or more than show ones but would never win a show and many look exactly like my Keira dog. So... food for thought... to some degree, traits are important. But a golden need not be "show TYPE" to be acceptable to breed, and still a nice, typical golden. Show type is gorgeous- some prefer it. SOme don't. There's room for all the types as long as they're all GOLDEN.



Bonni said:


> Now that we're onto contraversial topics, I have a question that I would like to throw into the proverbial ring and see what comes back.
> 
> One thing I've always wondered about breeders and the doggie-type is why is it so important to have a dog that's perfect, especially if the dog is solely intended as a pet/companion/member of the family? If you're going to show your dog in any way, shape or form, I can totally understand the need for perfection, but for the average joe who's just looking for a good friend, I have a hard time understanding why the dogs must be a certain way.
> 
> ...


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

Charlie was definately from a BYB and we paid $375 for him. I don't work so we would never be able to afford $7-800 for a dog. And as for a resue, I would love to do that but all of the local rescues around here require a fence (which we do not have) But I am able to be with him 24 hours a day which is all worth it.....


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

Ok, here is MY OPINION.

I am a hobby breeder. I do every health clearance I can possibly do. More than the average show breeder. I do not show (although I am getting a show puppy for my daughter to show in the UKC). I try to stay close to breed standard and vary from it as little as possible. No dog is perfect.

My dogs all have hip, elbow, heart, eye, thyroid, patella, DNA....I also send in DNA for research. If they do not pass one of those clearances, they do not get bred. If one of their pups has an issue, the breeding of those 2 parents is not repeated. If I do research and find another test that my dogs will benefit from, I do it. (I recently did all the patellas)

My puppies are priced for $800-1000. I do everything in my power to ensure that they are happy and healthy and have a great temperament.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

telsmith1 said:


> Ok, here is MY OPINION.
> 
> I am a hobby breeder. I do every health clearance I can possibly do. More than the average show breeder. I do not show (although I am getting a show puppy for my daughter to show in the UKC). I try to stay close to breed standard and vary from it as little as possible. No dog is perfect.
> 
> ...


You sound like a great breeder. Your dogs are priced probably equally to what I paid for Shamus, he was more but in New England I think the prices are just higher geographically, I think anyway.

I think Shamus's breeder would be classified as a 'hobby' breeder, too. She does some competitive obedience, agility, and showing--but nothing crazy--but her main concern is health just as you stated also. And, yes, there are no guarantees.


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## mist (Jun 23, 2007)

In the UK goldens are a lot cheaper than most other breeds, £600/$1200 with all the clearrences. Pugs sell for £1000/$2000 and Shar pei’s £1200/$2400. A neighbough of mine breeds both these breeds purely to make money, he does no health checks and charges £800 for Pugs & £1000 for Shar pei’s, and yes we have had many fallings out cause I just can’t keep my mouth shut. The last time he bred from the pug, his girlfriend could be bothered to stay with it when began labour and went out, hours later the pug had lost all the pups and the vet had to fight to keep the bitch alive she spayed her on the spot, and really layed into the girlfriend, none of what they were told sunk in they just changed vets


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

I paid $575 for Tucker, both his parents were certified at the U of G Veterinary school place, and he came with CKC papers.

There's no way I'm ever gonna spend more than $600 for a dog... I guess because I don't give a rats ass about showing or how perfect a dog looks lol. I just wanted a pet. I would've rescued if I could've found one but finding a Golden for adoption in Ontario is like finding a needle in a haystack.

Why a Golden instead of a mutt?? I'm not sure, I went to our local shelters first, walked a couple of dogs I liked, but I just felt there was no "connection", if that makes sense. And I didn't want to commit to a dog and have to end up giving it away or something.

So, I knew I always thought Goldens were cute, and everyone always told me they were a great loyal family dog (too bad they didn't tell me what monsters they were as puppies LOL). So that's why I wanted one. 

I can't get over the people that try to sell them for $1200 for a PET. That's just a money-making scheme if you ask me. If I'm gonna pay that much for a dog he better walk on two legs and do the house chores everyday.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I think certain families with kids that get puppies are ok..... Not all homes with kids are bad.... Look what happen with Tug ..there were adult kids(18 & 20) there. Maggie came from a hobby breeder had all the clearances... She has a couple issues(Not health) that are not your normal golden traits..... Do I care ....NO...I love Maggie just how she is.....wouldnt trade her for a million dollars....When talking to her breeder, no one else in her litter has these issues or down the line.Bottom line is we all want to have healthy dogs that live a long life.... Is that always the case.... NO. Look at Cruiser.... he was a puppy miller..... He was in a box in the corner at a auction and since he had a heart murmur they were going to put him down.... A great lady paid 200.00 for him just so he wouldnt be put down and called us....So I guess in turn we supported the puppy miller but . I look at it this way.... She saved his life and now hes at my house living a happy nomal life with his Abbie.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

GoldenLover84 said:


> I paid $575 for Tucker, both his parents were certified at the U of G Veterinary school place, and he came with CKC papers.
> 
> There's no way I'm ever gonna spend more than $600 for a dog... I guess because I don't give a rats ass about showing or how perfect a dog looks lol. I just wanted a pet. I would've rescued if I could've found one but finding a Golden for adoption in Ontario is like finding a needle in a haystack.
> 
> ...


Spending more money isn't about buying a show dog or about looks. 

Also, the amount of money I paid for my golden is equivalent to other breeders in my area doing the same kind of breeding practices his breeder does. Plus, we're talking about a breeder who has no more than 1-2 litters per year.

Now, on the other hand, I've seen breeders (won't mention names here) that are charging $2000 or more for 'rare white creams', now we're talking about prices and promises that just don't jive. That's a completely different story and a huge red flag to any buyer IMO.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Maggies mom said:


> I think certain families with kids that get puppies are ok..... Not all homes with kids are bad.... Look what happen with Tug ..there were adult kids(18 & 20) there. Maggie came from a hobby breeder had all the clearances... She has a couple issues(Not health) that are not your normal golden traits..... Do I care ....NO...I love Maggie just how she is.....wouldnt trade her for a million dollars....When talking to her breeder, no one else in her litter has these issues or down the line.Bottom line is we all want to have healthy dogs that live a long life.... Is that always the case.... NO. Look at Cruiser.... he was a puppy miller..... He was in a box in the corner at a auction and since he had a heart murmur they were going to put him down.... A great lady paid 200.00 for him just so he wouldnt be put down and called us....So I guess in turn we supported the puppy miller but . I look at it this way.... She saved his life and now hes at my house living a happy nomal life with his Abbie.


I think you and I actually agree with each other at the heart of the issue. I could be wrong, but I think you're aware of that.


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## PeanutsMom (Oct 14, 2007)

I found this thread very interesting.I can see both sides on this one as I have never had a dog that cost over 500 dollars.I have goldens that came to me after being with other families.I have done what I can to find out all information I can as to what they went through at their previous homes.The one I know least about is the one that follows my 3 year old around religously.Am I afraid he'd hurt her because I don't know his past?Not at all! The first week Buddy was here I got on his last nerve.I would take bones right out of his mouth (after tricking hubby into trying it the first night) and pet him while he ate , I must have been pretty annoying.I also watched very closely how he reacted to my daughter stepping on a tail as she walked by.I also have a five year old but she is far less rough playing with the dogs.So I think the right rescue is fine with small children.I also think if you can't afford a 1000.00 puppy that does NOT mean you shouldn't have a puppy.There are people in every area who will let their pair have a chance at breeding.Some believe it is better for a female to have at least one litter(not saying it is true).There are also accidental breedings.These puppies deserve homes of not just people who are uneducated about the breed but people who do know how to care for them properly and I personally truly hope that I able to find homes for peaches puppies similar to the kind of homes the goldens of GRF have.


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## Me&Ruby (Aug 20, 2007)

*Just my penny from a very common Golden owner at the other side of the pond*

We 'had' to go with a Kennel Club registered breeder because, frankly, we didn't know any other way!-with our limited knowledge about breeders and breeding in this country! I'm sure there're 'BYBs' here too, but we wouldn't even know enough to find them!-even if we wanted to save a few (which we didn't).

So, we wanted as much 'guarantee' as possible (knowing it's never 100%) for good health and temperament, so we just went 'by the book' and read all the hips, eye test certs etc., and it went straight over our heads when our breeder showed off photos of Ruby's dad in the shows!! We paid £700 (which would have been about $1300 at the time), and yes we thought it was expensive (but it was partly because of the area of the country, and the show bloodline - even though we couldn't care less; not interested to show/breed), but we'd planned a pup to be 7-8 weeks old in the particular period so that we were always there in her formative months (one of us is still with her a lot now).

Why a Golden? Why a puppy? Why not another breed? Why not rescue?
We researched for over a year. Rescue was out, as few/no rescue centres here would vet us in, since both of us work (even though I only *go in* to work 2x a week). I literally "picked up" a Collie/Lurcher cross several years ago from a car park in the country - loved him loads and was gutted when he passed, but I was also convinced that had I been his owner all/most of his life, we would've been even closer. So we went to shows (dog 'intros', not 'proper' shows like Crufts-we don't care about those) and weighing all pros and cons, we decided on a Golden because, relative to other breeds, s/he's versatile to fit in our outdoor sports and general lifestyle if trained. Looks come into it (as in the general look of the breed...well, why not??)- we're not keen on small breeds (can't come running with us) and big ones (we even considered the Newfy!) are, well, too big!(for a first-time puppy raiser anyway).

Would we have gone for a non-registered pup? Probably-as long as there are health certs of both parents. As complete 'novices', we just went for the 'safe' option. Should we want another dog later, we wouldn't say we won't say we wouldn't consider other options.


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## AlbertAndClifford (Nov 12, 2007)

Well, we got al and cliff free.


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## PeanutsMom (Oct 14, 2007)

AlbertAndClifford said:


> Well, we got al and cliff free.


All three of mine too


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

There is one simple principle, which is universal, that determines the price of dogs. It is called supply and demand. Whippets are not expensive, because there is little demand and ample supply. Goldens are in very high demand, so the prices are much higher. Regional differences can also be attributed to that same principle. Goldens in the Northeast are higher in cost, because the price of everything is higher in that area. But, so are salaries.


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## Angel_Kody (Feb 27, 2007)

vrocco1 said:


> There is one simple principle, which is universal, that determines the price of dogs. It is called supply and demand. Whippets are not expensive, because there is little demand and ample supply. Goldens are in very high demand, so the prices are much higher. Regional differences can also be attributed to that same principle. Goldens in the Northeast are higher in cost, because the price of everything is higher in that area. But, so are salaries.


 
Exactly what I was thinking. It is also regional. A pure bred golden from a reputible breeder in NJ will cost you twice as much as one from NY state.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

That's pretty much what I figured- they charge what they can get. That said, Whippet breeders I know have waiting lists and NO trouble selling puppies. I have no doubt some COULD charge more if they wanted to. But then, maybe some Golden breeders could, too.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

i paid $500 for Sam from i guess what you could call a BYB.. although it was a first litter, accidental breeding between their 2 goldens (not related, and no health clearances). he came with papers, a 1 year health guarantee, and a little puppy kit. i admit i never thought i would buy a puppy from a "BYB" and had done extensive research on buying a puppy from a reputable breeder (although a different breed, something small along the lines of a maltese.. yeah i know, VERY different breed.. long story) but a friend of mine got Sam's sister and convinced me to go take a look at the remaining puppies, and as you know, since when can you JUST look at golden puppies and not fall in love. 

anyway the point of all this was... no we didn't spend over a thousand dollars getting Sam from a reputable show breeder.. but i wouldn't change a thing because he is the sweetest goofiest love bug ever. i pray we will never have to deal with any terrible illnesses like hip dysplasia since his parents were not cleared prior to breeding, but if we do, so be it, i will do what i need to do to take care of my little guy. i got excellent pet insurance for him that covers all hereditary illnesses just to be sure that if that does happen, i will be able to get him the best treatment possible without worrying about whether or not i can afford it.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I got lucky. The Tuckman was a throw away dog who has a pretty nice Dad (Pebwin XPDNC) in his pedigree for $500.00! He was just shy of a year old and returned to his breeder. Although I missed out on his puppyhood and so long for a puppy photo, he was a diamond in the ruff!

I still can't believe he's ours! His Mom's side is not too Shabby either! LOL


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Tucker is gorgeous- and so is Shadow


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Tucker is gorgeous- and so is Shadow


Oh, thank you. Shadow was $800.00, cost me over 6k his first year, but I did get a $400.00 refund from the breeder! LOL I wouldn't change a thing...


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Shadow- the worlds most expensive Golden!!


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Kimm said:


> I got lucky. The Tuckman was a throw away dog who has a pretty nice Dad (Pebwin XPDNC) in his pedigree for $500.00! He was just shy of a year old and returned to his breeder. Although I missed out on his puppyhood and so long for a puppy photo, he was a diamond in the ruff!
> 
> I still can't believe he's ours! His Mom's side is not too Shabby either! LOL


Oh, I'll say so! Especially since he's also Shamus's grandfather. 

And, I agree with you, as much as it's nice to have them during puppyhood, my next golden, will be a rescue, and will probably be over 2 years old. Goldens just get better with age...like a fine wine


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

There are some wonderful dogs in rescue that actually have good lines..... WE have had many..... Abbie's breeder is no longer breeding but she has some great lines in her.... and she ended up in our rescue ....


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Abbie is gorgeous. And look at Zan (first don in my siggie)


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Jenna ...he is a very handsome dog ....


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

The minute I saw Abbie I thought wow- that's a little show girl


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## Emmysourgolden (Oct 10, 2007)

Abby, in your signature picture...which one is Abby again??


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

hehe I know! the faces go... cruiser, maggie, abbie, hootie... cruiser's wrapped around maggie


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## Emmysourgolden (Oct 10, 2007)

Thanks, Jenna. I find myself staring at that picture.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Its a great pic!!! I will take one of each, thanks!


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Your good Jenna....... Abbie is also my avatar.... And thought I would let you know Jenna that IM really leaning towards Cruiser staying forever....


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

How could you not... just look at them in that picture... a happy family!!! I am leaning that way for Zander too. BTW how is Miss Roxy.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Miss Roxy...............She is learning the hard way that she isnt in charge:uhoh::uhoh:


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## DanielleH (Nov 4, 2006)

Shy was $900.00 and London was 1,200..
starting next spring I'll be starting my "puppy funds" again ... saving up again for another little girl or boy..who will be arriving in the fall..


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

uh oh is she getting the Maggie treatment?


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## Merlins mom (Jun 20, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Abbie is gorgeous. And look at Zan (first don in my siggie)


I must have missed it. How did Zan come to you?


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

He was a stray


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> uh oh is she getting the Maggie treatment?


The Magg's treatment and then today she kept pestering Abbie and she let her have it.... And the thing I dont get is none of the puppies will have anything to do with Hootie and hes the nice one and loves puppies.....


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

lol very weird- they like a challenge?


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> lol very weird- they like a challenge?


I guess.... Shes learning the hard way......


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

I should probably stay out of this thread but here goes from one who prices (yes health too) but prices for pups drove him out of the business. As Vern says supply and demand does account for differences between breeds but there is alot more to it when determining differences in prices withinn the same breed.

What drove me out of the breeding pure and simple was the fact there are people taking two dogs throwing them in the backyard every 6 months having a litter and charging 200 or 300 hundred bucks a pup. The other thing that changed in the last 5 years is the need for instant grattification (which usually leads to heart ache down the road) and people not wanting to be placed on a waiting list. I have found this to be more regional and Southern than in other areas of the country.

Now let's look at me having a litter of ten puppies to make the numbers round out better.

Couple of weeks before they are born 40 dollars for a whelping box as I don't use the same box from litter to litter.

Day one they are born they go to the vet to check for cleft palates and to check the mother. $20 dollars per pup $200 plus mother is free

With ten puppies I supliment feedings. About $100 for Esbilac supliment for help with nursing another $100 Esbilac 2nd Step suppliment to help with weening off mother. $200 dollars total.

Week 2 trip to the vet for wormings and first listening to hearts $20 per pup and $5 wormings. Also checked for weight versus bone and muscle growth. $300 dollar vet bill.

Week 4 trip to the vet for wormings and first listening to hearts $20 per pup and $5 wormings. Also checked for weight versus bone and muscle growth. $300 dollar vet bill.

Same for week 6. $300

Week 8 same plus first shots. $410 vet bill.

Okay so we are at $1710 just in vet bills and this if nothing goes wrong with the puppy. Gosh I could sell puppies at $200 dollars and make a $29 dollar profit per puppy!!!!!

BUT......

I do clearances on my dogs So a breakdown on that would be around $320. (Potential breakdown of costs: OFA Hips $125.00, OFA Elbows $25.00 if done with hips, Eyes - $45.00, Heart - $125.00). I have 7 dogs to do this for total cost $2240.

I guess these dogs need Frintline and Heartguard duh Heartguard $41 a month and Frontline $83.00 Month so for the year $1588 dollars a year.

Need those rabies shots $17 x 7 = 149 plus $20 dollar office visit $169

Oh geezzzz they have to eat let's just through out a figure of $1200 I probably don't want to figure that one out, oh yes those puppers need to eat also from week 4 to 10 so another $100. So $1300 a year.

So where are we......

So where are we. A whopping total of $7007 a year although some clearance aren't a yearly thing so I get some break there.

Dog gone I forgot I am a licensed kennel and puppy seller. $1000 a year for the kennel license and $100 plus 3 percent of puppies sold for puppy seller license so about $170 plus the $100 kennel license, Ahh yes there is those pesky dog resteration fees for the county at $25 bucks a pop $175. So fees total a year at $445.

So if everything goes right (I mean no extra trips to the vet) I have $7452 invested in these pups so I can sell them for $800 dollars and make a tidy profit for $55.80 per pup

Yes there is a But wait

I didn;t mention my time that I spend with every pup finding out everything I posibily can about it's personality so that I can match it with the right owner. I didn;t mention they are raised in doors so that we are washing puppy bedding 3 and 4 times a deay so that puppy is healthy and clean. Many many other extras just to insure that puppy is healthy the minute it comes home to you.

Do I sound bitter?????? You bet because I am tired of people calling me and say why is your puppies so much and they don;t have championships behind them? Or people calling me emailing me calling me an idiot cause I am breeding when there are so many dogs in rescue. They people that put their name on a list just in case they don;t find themselves a 300 dollar dog in the mean time.

You get what you pay for people is all I can say. You buy a 300 dollar dog it will cost you more in the long run. Should people who show their dogs, champion them and doi clearanses get more for puppies well just add in the price for dog show entry fees, hotels, gas, pedigree research on prospective dogs to the list I gave you and you can understand why.

You people that rescue that don;t want people breeding cause their are too many dogs out there go hassle the puppy millers and one time family we just wanted to let our kids see a birth people and leave the ones of us doing it right alone.

One yeah you don;t have to hassle me anymore I AM NOT BREEDING!!!!!!!! Now go buy your $300 dogs and leave me alone!!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Well I have a $300 dog but I am NOT anti breeding have never and would never say anything against your breeding program...


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

TheHooch said:


> I should probably stay out of this thread but here goes from one who prices (yes health too) but prices for pups drove him out of the business. As Vern says supply and demand does account for differences between breeds but there is alot more to it when determining differences in prices withinn the same breed.
> 
> What drove me out of the breeding pure and simple was the fact there are people taking two dogs throwing them in the backyard every 6 months having a litter and charging 200 or 300 hundred bucks a pup. The other thing that changed in the last 5 years is the need for instant grattification (which usually leads to heart ache down the road) and people not wanting to be placed on a waiting list. I have found this to be more regional and Southern than in other areas of the country.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you said what you said Hooch. I agree with you, and it's a shame that people aren't willing to pay for a dog with all the health clearances from an ethically sound and knowledgeable breeder like yourself.

But, as long as people are willing to buy goldens from any jo-schmo, clearances be ******, it will always be harder for the people that are doing it right.

I am, and always have been, a huge proponent for 2 things only: Buying a dog from a reputable breeder who does all the health clearances (not just on mom and dad, but going back generations) as well as breeding as close to possible to standard so that you get a golden with a golden temperament, etc. OR...rescuing. Both to me promote longevity in the breed we love so much. 

Thank you for your post Hooch, I think it's truly helpful for people to understand why those types of breedings result in a higher priced dog. I'm very sorry that you've been driven out of the dog breeding world, you were one of the good ones.


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

ACC I need to apologize to you and anyone else here who I more than likely offended with the 300 dollar dog remark. I guess it goes to show you it probably wouldn;t be the wisest thing to post while you are still greeaving ove rht e decision to rehome one of your heart dogs.

The basic point to my post still stand though I wished I had done it ina little more educational and not confrontational way. Usually this is so unlike me guess my heart is just sad along with being bad. LOL

I do wiosh everyone a long properous and healthy lived dog no matter what the price. Again please except my apology.


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

Well, one last thing. IMHO breeding for profit is not the proper motivation. That is why proper breeders are known as "hobby" breeders. There is no money to be made in it. I don't know why the BYBs do it a $300 per dog. If anyone does, please explain it to me.

After a litter goes home, there is usually a small pile of cash laying around. But, it does not even make a dent in the expenses.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

TheHooch said:


> ACC I need to apologize to you and anyone else here who I more than likely offended with the 300 dollar dog remark. I guess it goes to show you it probably wouldn;t be the wisest thing to post while you are still greeaving ove rht e decision to rehome one of your heart dogs.
> 
> The basic point to my post still stand though I wished I had done it ina little more educational and not confrontational way. Usually this is so unlike me guess my heart is just sad along with being bad. LOL
> 
> I do wiosh everyone a long properous and healthy lived dog no matter what the price. Again please except my apology.


Hooch, of course you wish your best to those dogs; we all do. Anyone that knows you knows that for sure.

You're just trying to educate people, and in the end, help them, but most of all, help the dogs in the long run. I know, breeders like you who have been around a long time and know this breed inside out, see the bigger picture down the road for what this breed is going to look like. To me, that's the reason I'm willing to put my passionate butt on the line (at the risk of making no friends--which clearly has never been my agenda on here.)


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I'm not mad. I didn't take it as a hit at me. I know **** well I shouldn't have bought her but on the other hand, we wouldn't trade her for the world. Luckily, she is a healthy dog at one year of age she has no hip, elbow, or heart problems and a great temperament.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Not everyone in rescue feels all dog owners should rescue either. It's a choice...


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Kimm, agreed. I am in rescue have three of my four dogs are from "breeders" (One BYB and two respected ethical show people). I am not anti breeding and often feel I am the one person on many forums who sides with someone who breeds and tries to help them instead of attack them for a decision that was already made.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Kimm, agreed. I am in rescue have three of my four dogs are from "breeders" (One BYB and two respected ethical show people). I am not anti breeding and often feel I am the one person on many forums who sides with someone who breeds and tries to help them instead of attack them for a decision that was already made.


I know...

Hooch mentioned something in his post and I think Hooch knows too I'm not one in rescue who thinks people shouldn't get a puppy. I think at this stage in my life, I'm 50 now and have been diabetic for 44 years, an older dog would be a wiser choice. 

None of us knows how long we will walk this Earth, but I worry about my two even though I've made provisions for their care and I think a puppy in the years to come may not be the right decision. I know if I were to get a pup today I could care for, love, and train; but in years to come that may change. I'm trying to be realistic.


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## Emmysourgolden (Oct 10, 2007)

Hooch, I hope you in no way think I'm bashing anyone's breeding program. Especially yours, you know I've made comments in the past that I'm amazed by you and joked at how "you're in it for the money" TOTALLY sarcastically. 

And, we too paid $300 for Emmy, which at the time for us, okay this is still pretty true, is a lot of money, especially some months. I'm just saying had it not been for these people, who I still will back and say they cared for the breed itself, we wouldn't have been able to afford a golden...Emmy. I can tell you if I were to buy a dog today...I would want a golden and I would get the best my money could afford. If I could get one with all the clearances I would be ecstatic but odds are we couldn't so I was just wondering people's feelings on the type of breeder we bought from.


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

I try not to judge other people's breeding programs lest you be judged. I am really just middle of the road. There are poeple who would say that I don;t do enough for the breed because I don;t support the GRCA and don;t show in conformation. It is just philophical differences on my part. Because today's confirmation Golden is not the Golden of our past history. That is not to say it is right or wrong the GRCA let that happen and it is what we have now. That being said I think show Goldens are gorgeous animals they are just not for me

So I tend to stay out of thread slie this and definitely when the show versus field goldens crop up. As long as everyone loves the bread and is trying to make it healthy I am okay with that.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I for one am in to rescue big time.... We get puppies in alot... Does that mean I push older rescue dogs on ppl NO.... Some families I dont think can handle puppies. Do I steer ppl away from Breeders NO..... Do I try and steer people away from puppy millers yes..... Do I own Both ..yes.......Would I throw Cruiser away because he is a puppy miller and has a heart condition NO WAY............


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Maggies mom said:


> I for one am in to rescue big time.... We get puppies in alot... Does that mean I push older rescue dogs on ppl NO.... Some families I dont think can handle puppies. Do I steer ppl away from Breeders NO..... Do I try and steer people away from puppy millers yes..... Do I own Both ..yes.......Would I throw Cruiser away because he is a puppy miller and has a heart condition NO WAY............


Mary,

Do you think anyone on here is saying puppy mill dogs should be thrown away? You have those dogs b/c you rescued them, don't you think many of the dogs coming into Sunshine fit into that category, too?

I think what is being said, at least from my point of view, is that I wouldn't support those people 'financially', I would rescue one of their dogs in a heartbeat. They all deserve love, if that's doubted, I'd like the person who feels that way to stand up. All dogs deserve love, I love them all. Do I love all people...no. I do not appreciate, respect, or support people who breed without health or temperament in mind, as they are not doing anything positive for our breed. 

I can also say as a rescue volunteer, like many of you, that I am also not an advocate of rescue for everyone. I've said consistently since being on golden forums that I'm an advocate of rescue or buying a pup from an ethically sound reptuable breeder who breeds for health, longevity, and temperament.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Mary you didn't go BUY him tho and support the miller and the woman who did get him out is a saint! I think all anyone is saying is don't support the people who do mass farm out Goldens. Not that the dogs are worthless or not beautiful!


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Yes Christi..But I will say that Cruiser was purchased from a puppy miller and we did in turn pay the lady back..... Our rescue has purchased puppy millers litter because if we didnt they were going to put all the puppies down.....


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

I want Cruiser no matter where he came from. He is my online dog!!!!!!!!! LOL


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

You were saving their lives... whippet rescue people has bought dogs from mill auctions to save them


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

TheHooch said:


> I want Cruiser no matter where he came from. He is my online dog!!!!!!!!! LOL


Take a number after me!


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

Kimm said:


> I know...
> 
> Hooch mentioned something in his post and I think Hooch knows too I'm not one in rescue who thinks people shouldn't get a puppy. I think at this stage in my life, I'm 50 now and have been diabetic for 44 years, an older dog would be a wiser choice.
> 
> None of us knows how long we will walk this Earth, but I worry about my two even though I've made provisions for their care and I think a puppy in the years to come may not be the right decision. I know if I were to get a pup today I could care for, love, and train; but in years to come that may change. I'm trying to be realistic.


I know what you are saying Kimm. I worry about mind too and I will never have another puppy. The three I kept are going to outlive me and that isn;t a reassuring thought.


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## dmfla (Aug 1, 2007)

TheHooch said:


> I want Cruiser no matter where he came from. He is my online dog!!!!!!!!! LOL


Well Laurel is MY online dog lol, Dont leave her out in the backyard too long hooch you arent that far away from me


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Yes Laurel is even clicker trained...


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Mary you didn't go BUY him tho and support the miller and the woman who did get him out is a saint! I think all anyone is saying is don't support the people who do mass farm out Goldens. Not that the dogs are worthless or not beautiful!


BUt we did tell her to go ahead and pay for him....


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I still don't think your rescue is promoting millers


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

DMFLA your next if Mrs Hooch and I can get over this one.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Maggies mom said:


> BUt we did tell her to go ahead and pay for him....


Mary,

Did she have to agree to stop breeding? I'm just wondering if she'll keep breeding and then continue to come to you guys to pay for them. That certainly could set up a bad precendence. But, if you made her agree to stop breeding than I think that's great that you sent her that message that you would help this time but she better stop.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

TheHooch said:


> I want Cruiser no matter where he came from. He is my online dog!!!!!!!!! LOL


Yeah Hooch ...Your buddy just got busted for counter surfing... He looks real sorry doesnt he......:no::no::no::no:


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## dmfla (Aug 1, 2007)

TheHooch said:


> DMFLA your next if Mrs Hooch and I can get over this one.


I can imagine how hard it must be hooch, they become a part of your family ......... my heart goes out you and Mrs. Hooch.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

GoldenShamus said:


> Mary,
> 
> Did she have to agree to stop breeding? I'm just wondering if she'll keep breeding and then continue to come to you guys to pay for them. That certainly could set up a bad precendence. But, if you made her agree to stop breeding than I think that's great that you sent her that message that you would help this time but she better stop.


We didnt purchase him from the breeder ..he was at a auction....sitting in a box since he was the only one who didnt get bought..they were getting ready to leave and take him to be put down...


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## dmfla (Aug 1, 2007)

Maggies mom said:


> Yeah Hooch ...Your buddy just got busted for counter surfing... He looks real sorry doesnt he......:no::no::no::no:


I think your pack qualifies as a gang in most states ... lol


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

Maggies mom said:


> Yeah Hooch ...Your buddy just got busted for counter surfing... He looks real sorry doesnt he......:no::no::no::no:


Counters are made for dogs or they wouldn;t be the perfect hieght. ROFL


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Maggies mom said:


> We didnt purchase him from the breeder ..he was at a auction....sitting in a box since he was the only one who didnt get bought..they were getting ready to leave and take him to be put down...


Oh my gosh Mary, how awful. I wonder what states those auctions happen in, are they all over? Sigh...it's so maddening, isn't it?


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

We got Whippets from places like that in Oklahoma


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

i know they have auctions in PA, NE, Mizzo and Kansas as i have seen the videos from there


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

GoldenShamus said:


> Oh my gosh Mary, how awful. I wonder what states those auctions happen in, are they all over? Sigh...it's so maddening, isn't it?


Yes...They are all over......And my point to all this is some ppl think we support puppy miller because we have paid to rescue them...


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I adopted the Whippet with the heart condition. Her name was Allie. She died at eight months from her condition.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Here in the upper midwest to do it right with an average litter of eight pups, will COST the breeder between $500 and $700 per pup in expenses. (Health clearance exams, pre-breeding check-up and bloodwork, progesterone testing, several vaginal smears, A.I. work, stud fees, mid term check up and ultra-sound, late term check up and x-ray to count pups, Emergency C-section, whelping box and whelping supplies, first litter check up, six week litter check up, vaccinations, CERF exams, Microchips, food, worming, etc.)
The average selling price for those pups runs between $750 and $1,000.

If you're buying a $300 puppy, rest assured that some shortcuts have been taken in producing the litter.


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

Maggies mom said:


> Yes...They are all over......And my point to all this is some ppl think we support puppy miller because we have paid to rescue them...


i don;t see anything but buying from an auction as anything but rescue. If someone regularly buys from there they know what they are supporting and are probably the cause and existence of it so going in and buying pups out of the horror is nothing but rescue!!!! I was astonished by the number of Amish people I saw in the video of auctions I saw. You know these people are buying to produce pups cause in some of the video oyu hear them talk about this dog is a good producer it is horrible


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> I adopted the Whippet with the heart condition. Her name was Allie. She died at eight months from her condition.


Im sorry Jenna.... Its hard when they have medical issues..... But I couldnt let any of them be put down, that are like Cruiser...... and the ones who dont have a chance ..its so awful....


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Here's the thing, since we are talking bottom line here.
I charge $1000.00 for my puppies. Ch sire and dam. All health clearances. Papers IN HAND when they new owners leave. A lifetime of support and mentorship if they should decide to compete. Grooming and boarding at a very reduced rate for the lifetime of the puppy. I breed for health and longevity, in addition to temperament and beauty. The average lifespan of my Goldens has been 13.5 years. And that has been a healthy 13.5 years, meaning that other than routine vet care, owners are not shoveling money at vets to treat or repair... At 1000.00, for that average 13.5 years, a family has paid a tad over $74 a year for a healthy, loving, long-lived family companion. Small price to pay, in my opinion. I've known far too many families (often families coming to me for their next dog so as to avoid the same heartbreak) who paid $300 or $400 for a Golden, only to have put several thousand into it for surgeries to repair hip dysplasia, or for medications to treat /maintain heart problems, etc, only to lose that dog by the age of 7 or 8, and even younger. Not such a great deal financially, not to mention the heartbreak.
I will not apologize for the price of my dogs. Up until 3 years ago, my price was $800, and had been so for many years. I raised them simply because my own costs had increased so dramatically, and even "breaking even" (or coming close) had to happen vs losing money breeding. When done right, breeders do NOT make money. They most assuredly cannot count on breeding dogs, again if done right, as a sole source of income. There are simply too many variables. Breedings don't take. C-sections might need to be done. Puppies are lost. It is not for the faint of heart, nor for someone wanting to get rich quick. 
I feel that at $1000, I am making my puppies affordable for families. Because I have a wait list, if someone decides that they want a puppy from me, there is some time to save money for it. When we bought our Lyric, we were a young family and money was very tight. We knew we wanted the best bitch we could possibly afford, and I knew that I wanted a puppy from the breeding of Dust ex Meric, 2 Champions with solid clearance histories and incredible pedigrees. We saved money for a long time and that $600 in 1988 seemed like a fortune. It was the best money we've ever spent. Am & Can Championships, Canadian National Specialty win, several BPIS, an Iams Tournament of Champions Sporting Group Puppy of the year, many BOB's and Groups, a GRCA Outstanding Dam title and 16 years of good health and pure love later, I'd do it all over again, even if the price were 5 times that. Anything worth having is worth saving for.


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

Swampcollie said:


> Here in the upper midwest to do it right with an average litter of eight pups, will COST the breeder between $500 and $700 per pup in expenses. (Health clearance exams, pre-breeding check-up and bloodwork, progesterone testing, several vaginal smears, A.I. work, stud fees, mid term check up and ultra-sound, late term check up and x-ray to count pups, Emergency C-section, whelping box and whelping supplies, first litter check up, six week litter check up, vaccinations, CERF exams, Microchips, food, worming, etc.)
> The average selling price for those pups runs between $750 and $1,000.
> 
> If you're buying a $300 puppy, rest assured that some shortcuts have been taken in producing the litter.


I shold have stated my post a little more like this than what I did.


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

Maggies mom said:


> BUt we did tell her to go ahead and pay for him....


Our rescue does that too, however, we will not pay $200.00. We've learned that most millers will say they are going to put the dog down unless you fork up that kind of money, but if you just wait around till the end of the auction, they will typically come back and accept much, much less. If we allow the miller to make a profit, then we are a broker for the miller and we won't do that. We can't put money in their hands so they can buy another dog at the auction. I actually fostered a puppy a couple of years ago that had a heart murmur, same story, the miller was going to put it down unless we paid, we walked away, she contacted us later and gave the pup to us. While I hate to see a miller get any money for their dogs, I'm glad Cruiser was saved, I just wonder if that miller might have sought the woman out later and given Cruiser to her for free or for much less. It's a hard gamble though, the rescue volunteer has to be as tough as the miller which is hard considering how badly we want to save every dog. Anyway, IMHO I'm glad your volunteer spent the money.

I've said it before, and I will say it again, the problem we have with crowded shelters has nothing to do with reputable breeders. There are not enough reputable breeders to produce the large number of unwanted dogs we have today. The problem is commercial breeding facilities. People are not doing their homework properly when purchasing dogs. They are willing to purchase dogs on the internet without ever visiting the facilities, they are willing to purchase from people that have several litters advertised on their sites, they are willing to buy from a broker with a story about the great place the pups were born at, a one time fluke thing (yeh right), and they're willing to buy from the pet store and willing to buy the age old lie, "all our puppies are from reputable breeders." I watch it on this list and I'm amazed at how often, even when all the red flags are pointed out, people still turn on the person(s), that has nothing to gain, who is simply trying to point out what most people know but don't want to believe. 

If the breeder isn't willing to do the clearances, I don't feel it is right to buy from them. If they are not concerned about the health of the potential puppies, they should not be breeding and IMHO my money should not be going to somebody that doesn't have the best interest of the breed at heart. In the long run, the additional cost of the puppy, even if you have to save for one more year to get there, is worth it just so you know you are not supporting somebody that is not concerned about the health of the breed.

Not meaning to offend anyone...it is after all a free country and everyone is welcome to do as they wish, the above is just how I feel based on my own personal experience.

Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

Maggies mom said:


> We didnt purchase him from the breeder ..he was at a auction....sitting in a box since he was the only one who didnt get bought..they were getting ready to leave and take him to be put down...


Just seeing this now...can't believe they had the nerve to charge $200. Talk about SCUM. I'm still glad you got Cruiser. Sadly I know our rescue would have had to walk away and it would have haunted the volunteer forever. Our intakes team truly has the most difficult job in rescue. 

Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Phoebe said:


> Just seeing this now...can't believe they had the nerve to charge $200. Talk about SCUM. I'm still glad you got Cruiser. Sadly I know our rescue would have had to walk away and it would have haunted the volunteer forever. Our intakes team truly has the most difficult job in rescue.
> 
> Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


We have actually bought a few with are own money. Our rescue draws the line at 200.00 If you guys remember Beamer and Lexi..they were from a litter of 6 and we paid 200.00 for all 6.....


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

I live in the same area as Telsmith and $800 - $1000 is pretty normal with all clearances and a health guarantee. Most people I know get their dogs from the paper, yard signs, or humane society. And pay less than $200.

I went that route & ended up with a BYB and paid $400. Seemed reasonable to me. And then I paid $350 for an echocardiogram. That's $750 for a dog that at 17 months has lived far longer than anyone expected. But could be gone tomorrow. Thankfully, that is really the only health problem we have had to deal with so far, but if she lives to be 4 or 5 she'll have hip and elbow problems, that will cost even more. And you know what I'll spend it.

Next time around I'm spending the money up front. I can't even begin to put a price on what the heartache has cost us.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

marshab1 said:


> I live in the same area as Telsmith and $800 - $1000 is pretty normal with all clearances and a health guarantee. Most people I know get their dogs from the paper, yard signs, or humane society. And pay less than $200.
> 
> I went that route & ended up with a BYB and paid $400. Seemed reasonable to me. And then I paid $350 for an echocardiogram. That's $750 for a dog that at 17 months has lived far longer than anyone expected. But could be gone tomorrow. Thankfully, that is really the only health problem we have had to deal with so far, but if she lives to be 4 or 5 she'll have hip and elbow problems, that will cost even more. And you know what I'll spend it.
> 
> Next time around I'm spending the money up front. I can't even begin to put a price on what the heartache has cost us.


I'm so sorry, I know what you've gone through and I feel for you. I know my Canyon is older than yours and it's not the same, but losing him at 6 sent me into orbit and just really threw me for a loop. The pain of that is still as fresh as if it were an open wound--I will take every precaution I can to help reduce my chances statistically of having another dog with health problems. And, yes, I'm realistic that there are no guarantees. 

The people I get so angry at are the ones breeding without bothering to do clearances, and yes, they are usually the ones making more money off the dogs than the 'expensive' breeders. People just don't get it...well, some do. But, from many earlier posts in this thread, many don't. I appreciate knowledgeable people in the breeding world like Hooch, Swampcollie and others coming forward and speaking up. People need to understand and then do what they want with the knowledge, but they need to have the knowledge. 

No, Mary, you are not the kind of person I get dissapointed with--quite the contrary. You are in rescue, and lots of dogs in rescue are puppy mill dogs. Not for one second do I not like puppy mill dogs, even just saying that out loud makes my heart ache. _*It's the puppy mill breeders....*_


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Emmysourgolden said:


> That's okay that we have different opinions on that. For us, those puppy days when the boys were little are some of our best family memories. It was alot of work but worth it. I would see rescueing a better option when the boys are older, not when they were as little as when we got Em. You don't KNOW the dog at first. There's no way I would have risked that. With a puppy we were able to train her, as you could a rescued dog, but there are a lot of unknown's that I wouldn't put in my house with little kids. You know a puppy is going to nip and chase....a 2 year old or older maybe have had something happen to the poor thing that it's not good with kids...you just don't know.


I haven't read through this thread to see where its gone...but I do agree with this. The thought of an unknown, big dog around my rather wild and stress causing kids was scarey. It worked out perfectly for us that our kids and puppy were trained together.....


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

But I will never do the puppy thing again....


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Maggies mom said:


> We didnt purchase him from the breeder ..he was at a auction....sitting in a box since he was the only one who didnt get bought..they were getting ready to leave and take him to be put down...


OMG! How terrible! How can people do this to a dog??? Maggies Mom, you certainly did NOT support puppy mills - you saved a Golden life! Bless you!

Jazzy was $950. CH. parents and all health clearances

Jazzys Mom


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## crnp2001 (Feb 18, 2007)

*interesting opinions...*

...and I've been on both sides of the issue, cost-wise. Apologies for the length of my "rant." :doh:

Our first GR, Lucky, was from a BYB who certainly didn't get clearances (21-plus years ago), but it didn't matter. All of her puppies were in great physical shape and true to breed standards in temperament. We paid $325 (which was a mighty amount in those days, when my parents together earned about $28 K combined).

Fast forward to 13 years later, when DH and I bought a house. I was impatient to have my own GR and looked at the "ad in the newspaper." Saw "AKC registered" and "parents on premises" and took a one-hour drive to see the puppies. Little did I know (and not even KNOWING what had become of the breed overall) that we essentially were in for a financial nightmare of the next 8 years. Amber battled temperament problems, food allergies and shots, severe ear infections, multiple surgeries, then went on (presumably) to develop some kind of cough and went into a cardiac arrest after her lung bronchoscopy and died. I estimate that we paid, between surgeries, intensive training (twice), prescription food, allergy shots, the cost of a "code blue," etc...about $25,000 in all. So let me tell you, IMO, I spent a whole heck of a lot more in 8 years than I would have from a "reputable" breeder. 

This experience was the ONLY reason that, 3rd time around, I went for that reputable breeder, who had 6 generations of health clearances for me to see, who INTERVIEWED me and my intentions of why I wanted a GR puppy, and how I intended to care for her over the course of her life. The same breeder has been a close advisor and will remain so for life. I trust her implicitly, and she has NOT made one dime from her very-carefully selected breedings. One litter per year, and never the same dog two years in a row. (She has two females--mother and daughter.)

And believe me, I looked at GR rescues in three states. None of them would consider us because we didn't have a fence and because my youngest son was under 6 years of age. I certainly can understand their concerns about it, but once that avenue failed, I was bound and determined to choose a GR from someone reputable...and paying $1200 and driving from PA to Massachusetts was worth every cent and cost of gas. 

And now, of course, I have an Invisible Fence, so at least if there are any future GR rescues or puppies down the road, that will be one less battle to overcome. :crossfing

I have a huge amount of respect for Hooch and the other reputable breeders that I've read about. I sure can understand why they give it up when prospective owners voice their un-informed opinions about breeding. Some day, perhaps when Honey is older (and I can convince DH), I'll get another GR.

Those people who have been lucky enough to find a good GR for less money...well, I wish I had been one of them in 1998...

My OPINION, only, of course! 

~Kim~


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## Merlins mom (Jun 20, 2007)

TheHooch said:


> ACC I need to apologize to you and anyone else here who I more than likely offended with the 300 dollar dog remark. I guess it goes to show you it probably wouldn;t be the wisest thing to post while you are still greeaving ove rht e decision to rehome one of your heart dogs.
> 
> The basic point to my post still stand though I wished I had done it ina little more educational and not confrontational way. Usually this is so unlike me guess my heart is just sad along with being bad. LOL
> 
> I do wiosh everyone a long properous and healthy lived dog no matter what the price. Again please except my apology.


You didn't offend me Hooch. Merlin cost $450! :

Seriously, your post may have been written while you're going through a bad time, but it made more sense (or made everything clearer) to me than any of the others here about why breeders charge what they do. And that was your point after all, wasn't it? 

I'm sorry you had to quit breeding. It's sad that breeders like you who care so much get driven out in part because of people like me. 

Education is key of course, but you're right.....I didn't want to wait 4-6 months to find a puppy. I was looking out of state, looking at breeders wherever I could find them with no luck. As fate would have it, the family I bought Merlin from is 20 minutes from my house and I just happened to see an ad that day. Mom (2) and dad (7) are both family, indoor dogs and the pups were raised inside. Some clearances, but not all. 

Would I do it again? Probably not. I think I want to rescue next time.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I've stewed about the comment/question re: what the big deal is about the "perfect dog". First off, any good breeder or knowledgeable dog person will tell you that there IS no perfect dog. There have been some great ones, to be sure, but if honestly evaluated, there would be something to fault, even if miniscule. That said, rather than vilfying breeders trying to breed the "perfect" dog, thank them. Because what they are doing is trying to improve and or maintain the integrity of the breed in all respects. Health, temperament, structure, movement, ability to perform, etc. As a pet owner, you will benefit from the efforts of those dedicated to improving and preserving the breed. Yes. I have "show dogs". Again, I will not apologize for that. My dogs possess _exemplary _temperaments, are capable hunting dogs for my husband and sons (granted, not high powered field dogs, but dogs that do the job in actual hunting situations) are obedient and willing , and are competive in the show ring. Nobody questions what they are. What the are NOT is weedy, tall, snipy, stringy haired, light-eyed dogs that are wired for sound and "hyper". I see a TON of those Goldens in my classes, thanks in part to a "breeder" just south of us who pumps out puppies and convinces people that since he is not breeding for show clearances don't matter. "THey still run and play ball so their hips are fine." "Eye clearances are not necessary, my vet looks in their eyes every time we go there." "Any dog can have a heart attack, getting a clearance isn't going to stop it." THis is just one example. As a trainer, I hear it all because I SEE these dogs and I work with the owners to help them have a dog that they can at least live with. 
THere is a standard for the breed. It was written for a reason. It defines the characteristics that make a breed unique. A breeder dedicated to the breed will use this standard as a blueprint, and clearances and pedigrees and the nails and glue when "building" a litter. To do anything less, or to breed fads like "rare whites" or under or oversized, or green eyes, is doing a great disservice to the breed. 
This forum is dedicated to Golden Retrievers, but I can assure you that this discussion occurs across the board within every breed.


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## Emmysourgolden (Oct 10, 2007)

Well, I certainly didn't mean to insult anyone. I was in no way condemning anyone, infact, it would be fulfilling a dream of mine to be able to do just what you all do (those of you who breed/have bred).
I was just saying what worked for us to get our first golden. Can't say I regret the little cutie.  And, I certainly hope she exceeds all expectations of her.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I dont really have anything to say but I am proud to be an owner of Hooch's last litter. 
I have one thing to say about all this. What about the people that do the research online and see the website, go to the breeder and get a great goodlooking pup and see clearances and it all turns out to be false like several people that have gotten Goldrocks goldens. They did everything that you are supposed to do and now have dogs that cant be registered and some have the hip problems because the info she listed on her site and K9 data is false. And she charges top dollar also. And until recently most of us all thought there wasnt anything wrong. And now we know differently. 
It is so hard when you are starting out looking at for a dog and dont know everything that you should know and get a dog in good faith and it turns out all bad. In this day and time alot of people still dont know that most dogs in pet shops come from puppy mills. So some people think they are doing a good thing, getting a puppy,loving it and giving it a good home and turns out they supported a puppy mill and have a dog with health problems. Catch 22.


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## AtticusJordie (Aug 15, 2006)

Well, I actually sat down and read this ENTIRE thread. 

MY BRAIN HURTS!

I'm not a breeder--never have been--have no interest in becoming one. Have little understanding of all of the steps breeders (at least the good ones) go through to ensure happy healthy offspring. Hooch--you and others have done a lot to educate me. I thank you for that. It took me about a dozen pages of the thread to figure out most of the acronyms (hey--how about a DICTIONARY SECTION in this Forum so that us numb-skulls can understand what's being said!).

We all seem to be revolving around the same issue. Rescue organizations certainly don't intentionally support puppy millers--but rescues are at the ultimate disadvantage, as I see it. If the rescues don't take the pups from the PM'ers, then the furrkids will be put down--in ways I don't even want to dwell on..... And the PM'ers will go back home and pump out another litter of pups............

As for breeders--frankly, Hooch--I would have taken one of your pups in a heartbeat. To me, you typify (from what little I know about breeders) the ultimate--and best--in breeders. You were willing to take the time and effort (LOTS of effort) to ensure your GR's were the healthiest most evenly tempered dogs that they could be. You were a breeder who cared about your 'offspring'.

And from what I've gathered here--there are lots of breeders here like Hooch. Unfortunately, I haven't gotten enough time yet on this Forum to understand which ones of you Golden-addicted people they are?!?

As a final note--I'm truely insulted and embarrassed to come to know that PA is also known as one of the big puppy-mill states. That really sucks. At least our Governor is trying to pass legislation to curb some of their heinous acitvities.

Enough ranting. Now I'll go back into the kitchen to get some more hot tea for this cold.

SJ


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

BeauShel said:


> I dont really have anything to say but I am proud to be an owner of Hooch's last litter.
> I have one thing to say about all this. What about the people that do the research online and see the website, go to the breeder and get a great goodlooking pup and see clearances and it all turns out to be false like several people that have gotten Goldrocks goldens. They did everything that you are supposed to do and now have dogs that cant be registered and some have the hip problems because the info she listed on her site and K9 data is false. And she charges top dollar also. And until recently most of us all thought there wasnt anything wrong. And now we know differently.
> It is so hard when you are starting out looking at for a dog and dont know everything that you should know and get a dog in good faith and it turns out all bad. In this day and time alot of people still dont know that most dogs in pet shops come from puppy mills. So some people think they are doing a good thing, getting a puppy,loving it and giving it a good home and turns out they supported a puppy mill and have a dog with health problems. Catch 22.


I hate to say this, but it really does come down to this, if you do your research, listen to what people are saying, really educate yourself on the breed, and research and get references for the breeder, go and visit the breeder, see actual documentation of clearances, etc....I have a hard time believing you could 'accidentally' buy from a puppy mill.

Buying from a breeder 'less' than what you thought it was, maybe. But, a puppy mill--no. Huge red flags should be going up to anyone with their eyes wide open when they visit an actual puppy mill. 

Now, I've been told lots of times (as recently as last week by my husband's cousin) that the local pet store has 'wonderful dogs from kentucky, they even are ckc certified.' Now this is my own family so you could imagine the steam flying out my ears.
She isn't being duped (well, she is) but she's also not educating herself, refuses to listen, and just plain doesn't know what she's talking about or what she's doing. She's also given away most of the dogs she's ever had--any good breeder would see right through her and never give her a dog, but a pet store, they just see $$$.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

BeauShel said:


> I dont really have anything to say but I am proud to be an owner of Hooch's last litter.
> I have one thing to say about all this. What about the people that do the research online and see the website, go to the breeder and get a great goodlooking pup and see clearances and it all turns out to be false like several people that have gotten Goldrocks goldens. They did everything that you are supposed to do and now have dogs that cant be registered and some have the hip problems because the info she listed on her site and K9 data is false. And she charges top dollar also. And until recently most of us all thought there wasnt anything wrong. And now we know differently.
> It is so hard when you are starting out looking at for a dog and dont know everything that you should know and get a dog in good faith and it turns out all bad. In this day and time alot of people still dont know that most dogs in pet shops come from puppy mills. So some people think they are doing a good thing, getting a puppy,loving it and giving it a good home and turns out they supported a puppy mill and have a dog with health problems. Catch 22.


 
Understand my frustration? I tried to tell the story...
The problem with the example that you used is that the above breeder has a website. On that website, in addition to literally hundreds of pictures of puppies and dogs wearing hats and playing with toys, is information about clearances, health issues, registration, "service" dogs, etc etc, along with links to many of the legitimate organizations such as k9 Data, OFA, CERF, AKC, etc. While it is all there, no one took the time to actually RESEARCH them. I suppose, that since the talk was talked, and it was all laid out, people simply believed that it HAD to be true. No need to check to see if the walk is walked, right? All it took for me, and many other people who know how to look, was 5 minutes. A couple of phone calls. When spending that much money for a dog, I cannot imagine NOT checking those references. Hopefully, this forum will be able to be used to educate potential buyers in the future so that the heartbreak and financial expense that we've read about here will not be suffered by anyone else.


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

BeauShel said:


> I dont really have anything to say but I am proud to be an owner of Hooch's last litter.
> I have one thing to say about all this. What about the people that do the research online and see the website, go to the breeder and get a great goodlooking pup and see clearances and it all turns out to be false like several people that have gotten Goldrocks goldens. They did everything that you are supposed to do and now have dogs that cant be registered and some have the hip problems because the info she listed on her site and K9 data is false. And she charges top dollar also. And until recently most of us all thought there wasnt anything wrong. And now we know differently.
> It is so hard when you are starting out looking at for a dog and dont know everything that you should know and get a dog in good faith and it turns out all bad. In this day and time alot of people still dont know that most dogs in pet shops come from puppy mills. So some people think they are doing a good thing, getting a puppy, loving it and giving it a good home and turns out they supported a puppy mill and have a dog with health problems. Catch 22.


Her website offered red flags. When you state that you are not a member of the GRCA because of some jealous breeders that don't understand breeding for service...that screams something is wrong. When you see a website showing several litters, that screams something is wrong. I just read another thread tonight where even though red flags are waving, the poster isn't sure it matters. Did people do their homework with GR? Perhaps, but when I was looking for Phoebe two years ago and I read GR's little bit about the GRCA, I knew she was a breeder I wanted nothing to do with and she was the one that put it out there.

Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> Understand my frustration? I tried to tell the story...
> The problem with the example that you used is that the above breeder has a website. On that website, in addition to literally hundreds of pictures of puppies and dogs wearing hats and playing with toys, is information about clearances, health issues, registration, "service" dogs, etc etc, along with links to many of the legitimate organizations such as k9 Data, OFA, CERF, AKC, etc. While it is all there, no one took the time to actually RESEARCH them. I suppose, that since the talk was talked, and it was all laid out, people simply believed that it HAD to be true. No need to check to see if the walk is walked, right? WAll it took for me, and many other people who know how to look, was 5 minutes. A couple of phone calls. When spending that much money for a dog, I cannot imagine NOT checking those references. Hopefully, this forum will be able to be used to educate potential buyers in the future so that the heartbreak and financial expense that we've read about here willo not be suffered by anyone else.


Great post. And, you're right, it's not so hard to educate yourself and do your research, but it seems many don't. And, where there is someone with a heart, there is someone to take advantage of it. We humans are just so lovely that way...

I'm actually surprised to see how this thread has gone today, and very pleased. In the past, I've seen these threads go very bad and people just literally 'defending' their puppy mill dogs, which is not at all the issue. The issue is why is it expensive to buy a well bred dog. I think with so many good breeders on here, some really good information has been provided. I hope even just a few people reading it will really hear it. 

Honestly, I don't see it about an individual dog or person, which is why it's not a personal issue for me. I see it as a bigger picture issue for the overall good of the breed. I have to imagine that breeders see it that way, too.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Phoebe said:


> Her website offered red flags. When you state that you are not a member of the GRCA because of some jealous breeders that don't understand breeding for service...that screams something is wrong. When you see a website showing several litters, that screams something is wrong. I just read another thread tonight where even though red flags are waving, the poster isn't sure it matters. Did people do their homework with GR? Perhaps, but when I was looking for Phoebe two years ago and I read GR's little bit about the GRCA, I knew she was a breeder I wanted nothing to do with and she was the one that put it out there.
> 
> Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


Her "little bit" about the GRCA was after she had posted on her site, falsely, that she was a member of the GRCA, and was called out on it.


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## dmfla (Aug 1, 2007)

Piece of mind allways comes with a price. Breeders incur alot of costs to breed well and its passed on to the consumer, the same as in anything you buy. You either pay for quality or you choose to take a chance. Hopefully we choose wisely ...


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## desilu (Nov 2, 2006)

I've just read through this thread and wanted to say thank you to those who put their feelings out there. After I lost my Winnie-the-Pooch (14 year old collie/retriever mix whom I inherited when my beloved brother passed away), I couldn't stand the thought of the empty house. I had no clue how to find a puppy - I just knew I wanted a golden puppy. So I looked in the paper and called ads and ended up with a puppy from an accidental breeding. No clearances, no champions in the lineage, and the mother was too young to have her first litter. I know all that now and I know how lucky I was that Lucy turned out okay. She doesn't have a showy coat - more of a puppy look. But she is smart as a whip and is loving, kind, and gentle, just like a golden should be.

My other dog was a sort of rescue. Her owners dropped her off for boarding and never picked her up. The trainer Lucy and I were working with asked me if I knew someone looking for a golden. Long story short, I took her home with me, knowing from the get go that she had something amiss with her hips. It was confirmed when I had xrays done during her dental. She is too tall and too long, but she has the true hallmark of the golden - her loving heart.

In the time between bringing Lucy home and getting Desi, I had done some research. I went into her adoption with my eyes open. Do I anticipate spending money on her? Yes - she'll probably need a double hip replacement when all is said and done. 

Do I regret any of my decisions? No. Would I do it the same again? No. I don't regret my girls, but I will never get another dog the way I did Lucy. I won't take the chance of not getting lucky like I did with her. Most likely, I'll never get another puppy - I'm 50 now and not getting any younger - she about wore me out. But if I do, I'll do my homework and pay what it takes to get a well-bred golden. I definitely will consider rescue again.

Just my thoughts on the subject . . .


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I still say that if I really wanted a Golden puppy, while I would TRY to save up, I'm not sure I could hold on to $1500. I live check to check. I have a small vet stash for my own dogs, but I'd never dive into that to purchase a dog or save a rescue- it's there for the purpose of a security blanket for MY dogs should the unthinkable occur. If I come across extra money, like when someone smacked into my car and I bought Epic  then great. I thought about buying a Golden with that money but it would have milked the entire $1500 check. As it was, Epic (show quality, top of the line) cost about half that and I was able to pre pay a bunch of bills and buy some fun stuff, not to mention all the expenses that come with a new puppy! Luckily those are minimal for me as I have all the supplies, crate, etc. But he still needed a set of shots, and new toys, etc.

When seeking a new Golden Retriever puppy, I would always search Craigslist and other places for puppy someone else had bought and couldn't handle- therefore I would not be supporting the BYB or where-ever they got the dog from. But if push came to shove, like it did for Keira, I would search out another breeder like hers. No clearances- no. But truly NOT a miller or even breeder. They own ONE dog, total, that is a house dog and bred her ONE time then spayed- and only because their daughter my age wanted a puppy from the dog she'd bought as a gift for her parents. They were sweethearts who did everything as right as they could as an older couple with no dog experience. They cared about the dogs. Ideal? No. But I know I was NOT encouraging any more breeding and she most likely was not making much money. She had taken them for exams, vaccinations from the vet, two good dewormings from the vet, fecal exams, health certificates for sale (Required by law in Florida, tho many don't do it). At least two of the pups were given away to the daughter and the owner of the dad (also a non breeder with one pet dog). I just don't feel guilty about buying Keira as a gift and service dog puppy for Courtney. It was the best I could do at the time. We got a great, cute, wonderful little working dog with no problems and did not support any kind of breeding mill.

I'll never agree people without $1500 disposable cash lying around do not deserve dogs. I also don't think the reputable breeders should have to give away their dogs! But that only leaves those of us without money lying around in piles a few options. Rescue wouldn't approve me either, the fenceless renter with an intact dog, so I have to find a free to good home or private rescue Golden or buy a cheap puppy. I have connections and get calls about needy Goldens all the time. But for someone without that advantage, finding one could prove tough.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

And again, we'll have to agree to disagree. I do not believe that dogs should be bred without benefit of clearances, so no matter how loving and caring a person is, doing so is _not_ "doing everything right". 
And while I agree that there should be no reason that a person without "piles of cash" laying around should not have a dog, I do believe that there comes a time that maybe having more dogs would simply not be in that person's best interest, not in the best interest of the dogs. Do not get me wrong. I ADORE dogs, obviously. But having dogs is not inexpensive, taking into consideration feeding, vet care, inevitable emergencies, etc, and being able to afford that has to be included in one's budget. Being realistic about what you can and cannot afford is important, and shouldn't be taken lightly. Compromising the potential health and well being of a pet should never happen. Therefore, in my opinion, it is always better to rescue than to purchase dogs from BYB's or mills. Even though the people you bought Keira from may not have bred another litter, that is not the usual rule - BYB's DO make money, if they are not doing clearances, etc. So they generally DO continue to have litters. And puppies from those litters WILL be bred, perpetuating any genetic issues that may, and generally do, come up.
And as most in rescue will agree, the majority of dogs they see coming in are from BYB's, HVB's, or mills. Of course, they will occassionally see dogs from "reputable breeders". Often, rescues will NOT contact such breeders when their dogs come in, even though most would want to know, and would do whatever needed to be done for that dog. Ideally, there would be no rescues, but that is most likely a dream... In the meantime, helping those dogs by providing them with loving homes is paramount. For that, I commend you. But by purchasing a dog from a BYB. simply because it is all you can afford, you have to know that it is giving them all the more reason to continue breeding dogs that have questionable genetic soundness, and can ultimately cost you far more than what you would have spent by spending more up front.
As always, my opinion and it cost you NADA, so could very likely be worth as much.


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

I hear what you are saying ACC, and I do agree that this would indeed be a sad world if only people of a certain income level could afford a pure bred dog. It's not to say that a shelter dog, a rescue, a mix is any less special than a purebred, but I'd hate to see pure bred pups become off limits to the general public. While I'm thrilled that we now have more medical options available to us than ever before when it comes to our dog's health, the fact still remains, if you end up with a dog with huge medical expenses, how does the average family on a paycheck to paycheck income handle that? Really, when we start talking about $15,000 for hip surgery, that's almost a full year's college education. As you and I both know, because we are both in rescue, there are many families that simply can't afford those kind of vet bills and those dogs get dumped at shelters or rescue is contacted. Breeding without the health of the dog in mind is part of the problem we have with dogs being abandoned. No way am I saying that you won't get those same health problems with the reputable breeder, but I believe we would have far less health problems if breeders were checking those lines for health problems before breeding..and there it goes, the price of the dog goes up. Also, when people pay $1,000 and up for a dog, they are much less likely to want to drop the dog off at a shelter. 

This really is not a black and white issue. Who would want to live in a world where only the wealthy could afford dogs, but who can feel good about the numbers of dogs that get euthanized every day or sit in shelters waiting for someone to take them home? As discussed earlier, all those mill dogs at the auctions, who wants to help the miller make a profit by purchasing the auction dog, but also, who wants to see the dog killed because it didn't sell? I honestly don't have the answer. I guess the best we can all do is understand that we are lucky we live in a country where we have choices, and we should not judge others on the choices they make. It's so easy to tell people what we think they should do, but it may not be what we would actually do if we were wearing their shoes.

Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

It's not worth nothing 

Not quite related but I totally agree about rescues and that they should always contact the breeder if the breeder is known. 

I don't want another dog right now (of any breeding) because I know I have my limit. But if I did, it wouldn't be able to be a $1500 one. That's for sure.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Unfortunately, no matter how badly all of us try to only purchase from good breeders, there will always be plenty of bad ones out there.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

We have contacted a breeder and we were told to find the dog a good home since , her husband died and her health was poor , she wasnt in breeding anymore and couldnt take care of the dogs she had....she in turn , gave us the dogs she had at her house.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

But you gave her a chance- which I think is a good thing. I guess some breeders, millers, you wouldnt want to call. But a caring one for sure. Imagine how Pointgold, hooch, or others here would feel if one of their puppies, god forbid, was in a rescue and they later found out.


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

Now there is a thought that would kill me. I worry about it all the time Even with strong worded contract and the extra things we do to encourage peope to bring the dogs back here for a brief stay you still have those that you never hear from again no matter how hard you try and those are the ones I worry about.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I no longer feel comfortable commenting here, but wanted to say I know you do a great job, Hooch.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

TheHooch said:


> Now there is a thought that would kill me. I worry about it all the time Even with strong worded contract and the extra things we do to encourage peope to bring the dogs back here for a brief stay you still have those that you never hear from again no matter how hard you try and those are the ones I worry about.


Would microchipping pups before they go to their new home help alleviate those fears? I know in Tucker's case had he not been brought back to his breeder, they would have never known. The buyer kept her contract with them and we had him micro-chipped. 

We got lucky when we needed the cash for Shadow's surgeries. Although most wouldn't say I was lucky. I hadn't gotten a raise in 3 years and it was retroactive. I also had to for the very first time, cross a picket line. That was not something I would have ever done in my life before.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I do chip my rescues before they leave, and the chip stays in my name to encourage them to call me if they ever move  But the dog is THEIRS entirely.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I would have had no problem if Tucker's chip stayed in my breeders name. There may be some legal issues with this, but at least the breeder would know a pup of theirs wasn't dumped at a shelter.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

vrocco1 said:


> There is one simple principle, which is universal, that determines the price of dogs. It is called supply and demand. Whippets are not expensive, because there is little demand and ample supply. Goldens are in very high demand, so the prices are much higher. Regional differences can also be attributed to that same principle. Goldens in the Northeast are higher in cost, because the price of everything is higher in that area. But, so are salaries.


I paid $1100 plus $65 tax for Brady from a well known show breeder, but he was bought as a pet with his parents having all their clearances. I also liked the fact that she owned and/or bred most of his ancestors 30 years back. Here in this part of Massachusetts, anybody that I have talked to that has bought a any pure bred dog locally has spent between $1000 to $2500 (most without clearances). It is the norm, but then again everything is expensive here.


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

Kimm said:


> Would microchipping pups before they go to their new home help alleviate those fears? I know in Tucker's case had he not been brought back to his breeder, they would have never known. The buyer kept her contract with them and we had him micro-chipped.
> 
> We got lucky when we needed the cash for Shadow's surgeries. Although most wouldn't say I was lucky. I hadn't gotten a raise in 3 years and it was retroactive. I also had to for the very first time, cross a picket line. That was not something I would have ever done in my life before.


I probably should have down this starting back about ten years ago. Up until then not even Atlanta had scanners. And there are still places all over Georgia that doesn't have them. You would think they would be standard equipment now escpcially in kill shelters they have there but they aren't


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

GoldenShamus said:


> I hate to say this, but it really does come down to this, if you do your research, listen to what people are saying, really educate yourself on the breed, and research and get references for the breeder, go and visit the breeder, see actual documentation of clearances, etc....I have a hard time believing you could 'accidentally' buy from a puppy mill.
> 
> Buying from a breeder 'less' than what you thought it was, maybe. But, a puppy mill--no. Huge red flags should be going up to anyone with their eyes wide open when they visit an actual puppy mill.
> 
> ...


I recently had a cousin call me up with needing some advice in breeding his eight month old Pekingese (who had an undecended testicle) with his 3 year old Pekingese that was from a "breeder in the midwest".

I tried to talk him out of it, telling him he was breeding too young and a dog that had faults. Tried to explain about clearances etc. My mother, who does support rescues, was upset at me with all this. Told me that it sounded like I was getting obscessed. Sadly, he did end up breeding. Luckily it was only two puppies, and both puppies now have homes.

Education, education, education is the key.

My daycare provider bought two Westie puppies from a local pet store for BIG money. She said she took a loan out to buy them because if she didn't, they were going to be put to sleep. Again we need to find a way to educate people.

I am still being educated in all this everyday!


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

TheHooch said:


> I probably should have down this starting back about ten years ago. Up until then not even Atlanta had scanners. And there are still places all over Georgia that doesn't have them. You would think they would be standard equipment now escpcially in kill shelters they have there but they aren't


It might not be a bad idea to find out which shelters don't have this equipment and do a fundraiser so every shelter in the US has one available.


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

cubbysan said:


> I paid $1100 plus $65 tax for Brady from a well known show breeder, but he was bought as a pet with his parents having all their clearances. I also liked the fact that she owned and/or bred most of his ancestors 30 years back. Here in this part of Massachusetts, anybody that I have talked to that has bought a any pure bred dog locally has spent between $1000 to $2500 (most without clearances). It is the norm, but then again everything is expensive here.


Lucky for you, it seems like New England has many of the best, and longest lasting conformation lines.


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## parrothead (Nov 1, 2007)

One of the problems I see is if you look in one of the local papers around here (Grand Rapids Press) for instance there are 21 ads for GR.So what happens to alot of these puppys ? The breeder I bought mine from still has 4 puppy'd left out of a liter of 8. I talk to him yesterday and he said this has never happen in 14 years all of his pups are gone by week 8.Like he said at this point he just wants to find them good homes,But does droping his price do that. If you can't afford to pay the price for a good healthy Puppy how are you going to afford to maintain it ? It seems like everbody and there brother are breeding GR. So I guess its buyer BEWARE!! But I think if you do your homework you can find a good dog at a reasonable price.


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## JensDreamboy (May 25, 2007)

Well, what do breeders do with the pups who don't find homes?? It has to happen right? 
Does anyone know if it is the standard for the deposit to come off the price of the pup? I just assumed so, but not sure now.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

My fear is the breeder who is not reputable selling them to auction houses, companies who do research, area shelters, and even the more unspeakable.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Goldens are a hot ticket where I live... I routinely call ads in the paper just to check out the seller and in almost every case all the puppies are gone, no matter what type of breeder it is.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> But you gave her a chance- which I think is a good thing. I guess some breeders, millers, you wouldnt want to call. But a caring one for sure. Imagine how Pointgold, hooch, or others here would feel if one of their puppies, god forbid, was in a rescue and they later found out.


One of my puppies did in fact end up in rescue. Thankfully, Paulette Lehrman of GRROM immediately contacted me, knowing that this is not something that had ever happened to me before, and that I would have taken her back in a NY minute. She was out of my AmCanCh Halltree Lyric Moment, CD,OD,CGC,TDI and Ch Asterling's Sunbeam Tiger SDHF. Lyric's first litter. She had been sold to a well known show home. VERY shortly after, THAT person sold a co-ownership in the bitch to another woman, for TWICE what I had sold her out right for. I was _mortified_. But, I met the woman and was happy that it was a seemingly good home.She attended Specialties and Nationals, and appeared to care a great deal for the dogs, and her place was very nice.The show person handled her (charging full handling fees - what a deal...:no and in general kept the co-owner tied in knots. She was constantly being threatened with the bitch never being returned to her. The show person offered to sell her interest to the woman, AGAIN for twice what I had originally sold her outright for (do the math - show person made out gangbusters...) telling her that if she didn't buy her, she was being sold to Spain. The woman was desparate, and begged me to help her. I reminded show person that my contract required that *I* have first right of refusal, so *I* was buying her. I made arrangements to meet show person at Cobo Hall, handed her a check, and she handed over the signed transfer, which I immediately signed over to the other co-owner. Show person was not happy,(she figured that the woman would never be able to afford to buy her AGAIN, and she could sell her oversease for HUGE bucks) but we got my dog out of there. The co-owner (an older lady) took a long time to pay me back, but did. She ultimately fell on hard times (divorce, illness/death in family), and I lost all contact with her. When GRROM contacted me, I was FRANTIC in my search to learn what had happened to her once I had lost contact. What I learned sickened me. The original co-owner had bred the bitch poorly a few times (unbeknownst to me) and then, when she no longer produced, sold her, in really rough shape to another man. THAT person moved, leaving her with rescue. GRROM contacted me right away. The foster family that she was with BEGGED me to let them keep her, as they had fallen totally in love with her. She was, at that time 9.5 years old. They loved her til her last breath at 11.5, still beautiful, and I know, grateful for their kindness. I will never forget them, nor the fact that Paulette had the integrity to contact me, which they usually do not.
It was a nightmare for me, and I cannot image what the poor dog went through...


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Yikes, PG, that is so sad. Wow. I feel for you. You did such a generous, selfless thing. The original buyer and the co owner person both sound awful  I'm so sorry this happened to you. Thank goodness she clearly was loved in her last years. This story makes me very afraid to breed dogs!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Yikes, PG, that is so sad. Wow. I feel for you. You did such a generous, selfless thing. The original buyer and the co owner person both sound awful  I'm so sorry this happened to you. Thank goodness she clearly was loved in her last years. This story makes me very afraid to breed dogs!


Don't feel for me. Feel for the dog, who knew great love for the first few years of her life and must have been very confused when everything went sour and she was so misused. It is a testament to her solid temperament that she continued to trust and love humans. I'm so glad that she didn't die without someone there who loved her.

As for breeding, I have to note that this was such an isolated incident, and virtually EVERY puppy I have ever sold has had absolutely wonderful homes. Never in a million years would I have thought that the person I sold that beautiful puppy to would have done what she did. I have since learned that it was not the 1st or last time that she took advantage of novice co-owners. THAT said, co-owns CAN work out beautifully, if carefully laid out.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Well I feel for both of you, because I know you loved her and it must have been a very upsetting situation, even if isolated. 

Sometimes people can fool us, be it with puppies or rescued dogs being adopted out. Most of my rescues are very happy endings, but the few that bounce always break my heart. I am blessed it has always worked out in the end, though.


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## Sienna's Mom (Oct 23, 2007)

We paid $600 for Sienna. It was $500 for a male. When I first started looking I saw prices in the low $1000. and when I replied, saying thanks, but I couldn't pay that much, I got a angry letter from one breeder saying something to effect that if I couldn't pay the price I shouldn't be looking for a Golden. Something about perpetuatin backyard breeders and low quality dogs.

Our breeder has since stopped selling puppies, I only found out as I wanted to write to her and tell her how much pleased we've been with Sienna- her domain name is for sale. I am thinking she went through a divorce and downsized everything, as we got that feeling when we picked up Sienna and she had sold Sienna's Mommy and was moving into the city from a farmhouse to start a new job. We felt good about her though and felt she handled things very professionally and experienced.


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## kwikrnu (Dec 2, 2007)

I don't know much about golden retriever, but have wanted one for a while. I have two children and they wanted a puppy and santa brought one early this christmas. The golden retriever was a good choice for us because they are supposed to be friendly. We have an old dog about 11 yrs old my wife and I got from a pound 11 years ago and a cat. We paid $400 from a BYB and is female and is not limited registration. I am not in a postion to spend $800-$2000 for a pet quality female which would most likely have to be fixed according to most puppy contracts that breeders have around here. My 8 year old daughter is interested in showing her at dog shows in a couple of years even though she probably isn't going to win anything. To my knowledge the dog must not have limited registration to do that.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

You might consider showing her at UKC shows (you can get UKC registeration on an AKC dog) where it is much more relaxed and fun, and dogs do not have to be extreme show bred to enjoy success and fun and bring home some ribbons.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

kwikrnu said:


> I don't know much about golden retriever, but have wanted one for a while. I have two children and they wanted a puppy and santa brought one early this christmas. The golden retriever was a good choice for us because they are supposed to be friendly. We have an old dog about 11 yrs old my wife and I got from a pound 11 years ago and a cat. We paid $400 from a BYB and is female and is not limited registration. I am not in a postion to spend $800-$2000 for a pet quality female which would most likely have to be fixed according to most puppy contracts that breeders have around here. My 8 year old daughter is interested in showing her at dog shows in a couple of years even though she probably isn't going to win anything. To my knowledge the dog must not have limited registration to do that.


 I think its great your daughter is interested in showing!!


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

kwikrnu said:


> I don't know much about golden retriever, but have wanted one for a while. I have two children and they wanted a puppy and santa brought one early this christmas. The golden retriever was a good choice for us because they are supposed to be friendly. We have an old dog about 11 yrs old my wife and I got from a pound 11 years ago and a cat. We paid $400 from a BYB and is female and is not limited registration. I am not in a postion to spend $800-$2000 for a pet quality female which would most likely have to be fixed according to most puppy contracts that breeders have around here. My 8 year old daughter is interested in showing her at dog shows in a couple of years even though she probably isn't going to win anything. To my knowledge the dog must not have limited registration to do that.


 
Oh, how nice that your daughter is interested in showing! Encourage her all you can and don't let her get DIScouraged by not winning. Even seasoned handlers lose very often. If you can find some classes around that teach her how to handle and stack a dog it would be helpful to her. Good luck and don't forget - we love pictures!

Jazzys Mom


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## Goldendogx2 (Sep 2, 2007)

I always get teary-eyed when a see a young person showing their dog. What lessons of life they can learn. I wish I had known about dog sports at a young age. Keep encouraging her in her efforts -- win or loose -- she'll have a forever bond with her special friend.


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## Zookeepermama (Nov 12, 2007)

I paid 850$ in Phoenix, Az for a pet quality dog. The parents have all the clearances and fantastic temperments, but my Daisy is a bit big, and I think she'll be outside the standards size wise. Breeder said she kept the top 2 out of the litter for agility, but Daisy wasnt as good as her sister so she sold her to me, but at 11.5 weeks old for a discount. Her contract says she usually charges $1000. And of course, I have to spay her. Heres her bloodlines
Ambient Golden Retrievers, I dont know much about the breeding, just wanted a healthy good natured pet for my daughter to grow up with, and to do some fun agility stuff with. Shes from Ambients Factor and Ambients Caine D Apple Red. I probably paid way too much. I think this will be the last puppy we get for a while though.


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## scherber (Dec 1, 2007)

I believe wholheartedly with the posts from Hooch, Golden Shamus, PG and Swamp Collie. I do sell my pups for $1000-$1200. They are all CHIC rated, the sires are also CHIC rated. I have a clause in my contract that I too have first right of refusal on the buy back of one of my pups. Backyard Breeders do not do this. All my goldens are sold on limited contracts. Those can come off at no additional expense to the owners if they do the same clearances as I do and get agreed upon performance titles on their dog. That keeps the backyard breeder and puppy mills away from my dogs. 

I think one thing that is a big problem with puppy sales in this country is the puppy webs that sell those puppies for the backyard breeders and puppy mills. If you really want to make yourself ill go on them and read their garbage about merchandising your pups. I went on one for the heck of it just so I could investigate....they told me they could sell all the breeds of all the litters I could produce....how many people get roped into buying a puppy this way from what they think are well respected breeders? 

This is the start of a website of people that do a **** Poor job of raising pups:

*Here at ********************** our goal is to produce a pure golden that can work in the field, participate in obedience, agility, tracking, and then come home and sleep in the owner's bed! No small goal indeed!!*

*We strive to produce puppies who are wonderful companions and who also succeed in many areas of competition. Our puppies are all whelped and raised in our home, and we love to spend hours playing in the puppy pen and just loving them. We recognize how important early stimulation is if the puppies are to realize their potential, so we take our play time very seriously!*​ 
*Instead of concerning themselves with the pedigrees and the clearances they go into a speil like the above..also selling medications, giving you links to all kinds of stuff....No information on the dogs. One of my Golden families had gone up to this place....Five people lived in a 12X 70 foot trailer in the middle of a horse paddock, with water hoses running out of the kitchen window to the stock tank. There was 4 adult dogs and one litter of 6+week old pups and one of the other females was very pregnant, also habiting the trailer. When Jim and his wife said they weren't interested, the lady dropped the price 3 times. I have seen this lady at hunt tests handle her dogs, it is not a pretty site....she was not showing much love there. I am pretty sure she used to sell her pups for $600-$800. My question is: Couldn't even the rookie puppy buyer see past the spiel and make the right decisions with all the printed info thats out there on how to buy a puppy and what to ask for? Many of the websites tell people what to ask for, what to look for,,,then are guilty of not having upfront info on their dogs.*

*I personally do not take all the info on clearances as truth when it is on someones website or k9data.com, I go through Orthopedic Foundation for Animals. When you ask someone why their clearances are not on there, as I did at a past GRC meeting....some breeders said they were not paying extra fees to offa.org when they can give copies to intrested clients. Personally, I would trust no breeder, I would like to see it printed on the offa.org website.*


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## hudsonistheboy (Dec 13, 2007)

I paid 460 dollars for hudson


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## katieanddusty (Feb 9, 2006)

Dusty cost $400 from one of those funny BYBs who names their dogs stuff like Sunshine Angel. His parents and most of his sire's side had hip clearances, and his sire was owned by a puppy mill. Of course I don't regret getting my buddy, but supporting puppy mills and ignorant people is not a good idea.

We got Boo the Lab for $350 because I lost the "but we've always found our dogs in the newspaper!" fight. It turned out to be not that bad. Parents have hip and eye clearances, sire competed some in hunt tests. 1 grandparent was a Canadian FC/AFC, and after that most of the dogs in his pedigree are FC/AFC. Unfortunately his breeder brought in more conformation-type dogs (probably because barking little crazy things like Boo weren't selling too well to pet people .


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## Golden Miles' Dad (Dec 21, 2007)

*Miles*

I paid $350, and I have heard of some as much as $500 in the area. 
I got Miles from a local backyard breeder. I called my dentist who has a gorgeous golden and asked him for some advice. His Vet knew of some one who had just had a litter.
I met the parents and the owner had even owned the grandfather of Miles. The whole litter was gorgeous and healthy.
Miles' father was 130 pounds, and Miles is now at 115 at only 2 years old! and in great shape!


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## rogersji (Nov 22, 2007)

Just purchased my golden from Tomiskaway Kennels in Georgetown for $600. The breeder asked some very tough questions at the beginning of our session until she realized we had just lost our golden.


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

rogersji said:


> Just purchased my golden from Tomiskaway Kennels in Georgetown for $600. The breeder asked some very tough questions at the beginning of our session until she realized we had just lost our golden.



Hey, me and another member on here also have Tomiskaway dogs


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

Golden Miles' Dad said:


> I paid $350, and I have heard of some as much as $500 in the area.
> I got Miles from a local backyard breeder. I called my dentist who has a gorgeous golden and asked him for some advice. His Vet knew of some one who had just had a litter.
> I met the parents and the owner had even owned the grandfather of Miles. The whole litter was gorgeous and healthy.
> Miles' father was 130 pounds, and Miles is now at 115 at only 2 years old! and in great shape!


Alabama is killing me with their pup prices. I could never breed here if it weren't for breeding with a waiting list cause people here at not that concerned about their dogs.


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## Grizzly (Nov 17, 2007)

In Vancouver, B.C. the cost from a pro breeder is about $950. BYB is about $500 with no papers or clearances


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

Mine was in the $250 range 7 years ago. I took a chance. Just answered an advertisement in the paper. Glad I did as she has far exceeded my expectations. 

Next time I would like to rescue a golden. They are great dogs and I would be more than happy to take one that needs a home.


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## MILLIESMOM (Aug 13, 2006)

My first Golden was a stray at eight weeks of age so she was free so to speak, tho she did have some health issues through out her life mainly allergies.

Millie came from a backyard breeder we loved Brandy so much we wanted another golden for company for her. We knew nothing about checking clearances. They were asking 550.00 for her John talked them down to 300.00 She has had some temperament issues not to wards people but other dogs, and was a regular little terror when she was a pup. My vet asked me when we took her in where we got he because one of his other patients had got a pup and ended up taking it back because at eight weeks it was mean, and uncontrollable.

Millie is a good dog, she is real intelligent and is a THINKER. She has had both hips done at the age of eight months they were severely dispastic. She has a beautiful coat and color, weighs only 63 pounds. She is a good dog and has been quite the challenge and has turned out nicely. Next time though we will do the same as when we got Pearl go thru a rescue.


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## Kirby'sMom (Feb 26, 2007)

We got Kirby from a hobby breeder in Green bay. She was recommended by Wisconsin's GR club (?) I did a search on-line when looking for a pup. Kirby was $700 and had all his clearances are was micro-chipped in hers and our names. We have a contract that she'll take him back if we ever decide to not keep him. (As if that'd ever happen!!) Our very 1st golden was from a BYB. The litter was advertised in our paper. He was very healthy and didn't have any problems with hips, etc., and lived to 15 years old. Our 2nd was also from a BYB and was very mean and unpredictable. We rehomed him at 9 months old. Then we got our Alaskan Malamute, also from the paper. She was a sweetheart. We didn't know any better about buying from ads in the paper. We were like most people out there....very uneducated. Until Kirby. I would buy from his breeder again. Her two females have only one litter each a year. She works at an animal hospital and her dogs are her top priority.


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

Kimm said:


> Oh, thank you. Shadow was $800.00, cost me over 6k his first year, but I did get a $400.00 refund from the breeder! LOL I wouldn't change a thing...


whoa!!! jake has cost about 4k during this year (his first) i wont ever see a penny from the breeder because his condition is NOT genetic. THINGS HAPPEN, even when all precautions are taken. 

i paid 600 for jake


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## Golden Miles' Dad (Dec 21, 2007)

TheHooch said:


> Alabama is killing me...cause people here at not that concerned about their dogs.


What do you mean by that? People here love there dogs just as much as anywhere else!!!! They are a part of our family... what has happened to make you have such a bad opinion of us Alabama Dog Owners?


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## rebeccadam (Dec 23, 2007)

We paid $700 for Molly(14 months) and $1200 for Achilles (10 weeks). Achilles' sire has excellent hips. We felt so blessed to find a wonderful breeder!


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

Golden Miles' Dad said:


> What do you mean by that? People here love there dogs just as much as anywhere else!!!! They are a part of our family... what has happened to make you have such a bad opinion of us Alabama Dog Owners?



While I can't speak for Hooch, I don't think he was implying that people in Alabama don't love their dogs. You got your dog from a backyard breeder for $350 (which is fine so please don't get offended), but Hooch, as a breeder discovered that to breed the way he wants to breed, clearances and all that, the costs involved with that made it very difficult to compete with the backyard breeder that sells their dogs for those cheaper prices. 

Welcome to board Golden Miles' Dad. 

Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


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## LOVEisGOLDEN (Jan 4, 2008)

ok, i know i am like a month behind on this (i just found the thread today) but we bought Layla from a byb. She was out of the bitch's 2nd litter in 4 years, and was 1 of 9 beautiful pups. she was the pick, and everyone who has seen her makes comments about her beautiful head and pretty bite. The trainer at her puppy play class stacked her as a 12 week old and was very impressed (btw: he is an AKC judge and shows his BC's in the conformation ring) i am new to the show world but am jumping in head deep-we go to our 1st puppy match later this month and then to our 1st AKC event in march (she is 17 weeks old now) I checked out 7 breeders before finding her-with the intent to show conformation, obedience, and agility. I figure it would be great if we found a treasure that will show well in conformation but if she is a flop, we still have a beautiful and wonderful pet and obedience/agility companion.

Both her mom and dad had full health clearances as did grand mom and pop on moms side, (only grand mom was checked on dads side)

We paid $250 for her and have a full registration with breeding rights (however, we won't be breeding unless she matures beautifully, and shows well in conformation-we have a few years to decide!)


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

I think she's a little young for it now, but when she gets old enough you should try to get her CCA (certificate of conformation assessment). Very few dogs wind up champions, but the CCA allows you to have documentation that she is within the standard (in case you do decide to breed down the line). Even though you refer to your breeder as a BYB, it seems they did a very nice job, and I'm glad to see they did health clearances. She looks like a very pretty pup in your avatar and siggie. Good luck with showing her!!!

Julie and Jersey


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## LOVEisGOLDEN (Jan 4, 2008)

thanks for the tip, and complement-we absolutly adore her, she has been wonderful!

I refer to the breeder as a byb simply because he has only had the 2 litters and raises them on a farm/kennel setting, not in the house as I would have preferred.

Even though, we have never had an issue with house manners or potty training. She only had 6 house accidents that i can recall and has never chewed anything but toys, she is a jewel!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

she is a doll- what is her pedigree?


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## LOVEisGOLDEN (Jan 4, 2008)

moms side= madam buttercup111, meadowpond celestial appollo x goldwinds' silver nova, CH celestial sirius jake CDX JH x CH meadowpond frozen asset, goldwind-apollos'stormy morn x harmony's topbrass moonbeam

dads side= sir Trigger, sir docker of cedar court x isabell kaufman, sir scout of kinds court x lady abigail of kings court, buddy keaton x mcquintty's ginger

i didn't know any of these dogs (most were never shown) which made me want her more-since her lines weren't very common


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Most of those are BYB... but the dad's side has some show stuff- the meadowpond, etc


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## tsdairy (Dec 9, 2007)

I know there are a lot of opinions on this out there. I got Shadow for $50 and he's turning into one beautiful boy. Lilly was 600; Destiny was 900; Saddie was 200, not akc but aca (all others are akc). Faith was 1800 and Apollo was 1700. Now with that said; I saved for each of the big dollar marks. Now Last year my dad got cancer; we had our last baby and my dad died and i had to travel to and from denver MANY times in 4 months as I am in NE and he is in CO. My lilly got bred to shadow. She was 1. I nearly had a heart attack as I did not know till she was bred till a few weeks before she had them. Now; thankfully I have an awesome vet who gave me a crash course in how to deal with her, the pups, he was out the same day; and weekly thereafter. Checkin on mom and babies. Fortunately they all did just fine. We had 11 pups (12 but one died with cleft pallet that day). I had 3 white, 6 golden traditional and 3 dark (1 dark died). 6 girl/6 boy and one girl died, the cleft pallet). Okay; so I had not intended this to happen; it was a very horrible time in my life I wasn't thinking about it I was gone A LOT those few months with the loss of my dad. I sold all the puppies before 9 weeks (did not let them go till 8 weeks) to people for 300.00 each. Neither mom or dad had clearances as they were not old enough anyway. It was a complete fluke, it doesn't make me a puppy miller. Saddie is just our pet. Lilly is too. I will have Shadow, Destiny, Apollo and Faith get their clearances at age appropriate and possibly breed them if the pass all of them 1-2 times. Bu that would be it adn they will be our pets permanently regardless. Shadow has a decent pedigree. Destiny too. Faith adn Apollo have very nice pedi's. I learned a lot with this oops litter. And it has prompted me to get even more educated and learn everything i can. I have been researching pedigrees; on and on. SO if I get attacked; well. I guess. But, I am not a puppy miller or anything fo the sort. And my vet made me see that cause I did originally feel that way when I was attacked via email from a listing I had with mom and dad being both very young. I was in tears. 

NOW; On the health problems. What I have found is this. JUST becuase you buy a dog with ALL clearances does NOT guarantee you will have a pup form those parents without problems. You can have neither parent having any clearances and have a perfectly fine pup. And vice versa. Your chances are better with the certs though of course. Now; on the whole HD thing; Sometimes HD is not genetic, it's enviornemental for climbers, jumpers etc. It's not always genetic. 

This is just all my opinion. And since I am new; I'm prepared for the lectures; I've heard them all before. i've only ever had one litter my whole life of owning oldens and it was a complete oops.


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## tsdairy (Dec 9, 2007)

Faith comes from Ventess English Goldens line; woman brought her dogs from overseas to live in the US; Line. Apollo is from Morning Valley lines.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

No lectures from me... sounds like you love your dogs and want to do things the right way


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## tsdairy (Dec 9, 2007)

Thank you ACC; I definately do want to do things right if/when it happens. It will be awesome. I have since taken measures to make sure it doesn't happen again!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

It happens to the best of us! Don't let the nuts get you down. I doubt any of them are perfect...  I bet you learned a lot, too, from your litter. 

I'd love to see some pics *hint hint* we love pics here!


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## tsdairy (Dec 9, 2007)

I posted pics of my dogs in the pic section. I will get some litter pics up. They were so darned cute! I have to figure how to get them off my desktop or on my digital camera. Desktop crashed recently and kids lost my digital camera. I haven't figure out the new one yet! LOL... It's awful! I wil definately get some or at least do my darnest to try!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I don't know how I missed your pics before... I'm impressed! What a family! Must be Golden heaven there...


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## tsdairy (Dec 9, 2007)

It really is. I LOVE them. I always have. Saddies pics are on my desktop, she's 4 and is red red. I am going now to put a couple of me with apollo up there...


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Love that you have such variety! The red and the ultra light


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Awww, TSDairy! No lectures from this end! So, you had an opps. Happens to the best of us. You did everything right that you could have done and its evident that you desperately love your babies!

Hugs
Jazzys Mom


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## scherber (Dec 1, 2007)

TSDairy

Unfortunately, it is not just hips, eyes, heart, cerf...you have to worry about.
What about epilipsy, thyroid, allergies ---many things that you would not have a history about. Let me ask you this...why would you have a $50 dog left unnuetured, just because he was a pretty boy. And only registered with an aca :doh:. Do you plan on using this boy in the future on the four females that you have purchased for breeding I would be worrying about cleft pallets, not only on the puppies that would be produced from any future breedings with him...but on the oooops breeding that he has already sired. 

The Health Clearances are not a 100% guarantee; a pedigree is not a 100 % guarantee for a healthy litter of pups...but they are the best tools available to us to date. Lets use both.

I was asked by a boarding customer if I would consider using his beautiful, great hunting male on one of my Goldens...I declined, because their was no clearances,,,just a very short AKC pedigree of dogs that had no history, and couldn't find one. A couple of months later, he came in for boarding with his meds for epilipsy.

I am sorry about your father's health...and I do hope he is better.

I also hope that you also consider nueturing males and females that you do not have a history on....3-4 generations is not enough. With aca I doubt that you have that.


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

I got Diesel for I THINK (I dont really remember) $350.00 at 12 weeks old? His parents have their clearences, and are AKC registered. His dad was in Search and Rescue, his mom was a beautiful ... mom I guess  He's a GORGEOUS dog. In Indiana I think the prices are considerably lower due to the economy being so low... Just My Opinion, but what do I know. I also have a wonderful 8 week old girl, who cannot be registered but she is loved non-the-less, and needed a good home


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## scherber (Dec 1, 2007)

I did not post in this thread to say a Golden could only be loved if we paid alot of money for it, or if came from a researched and tested pedigree. I posted in this thread to say there is alot of dogs in rescues and shelters due to the fact that many of them run into problems later (after the puppy stage) when people find out how costly it is to properly take care of a dog with health problems. The cuteness wears off and the reality of paying alot of money to vets to make their dog's life manageable becomes an issue. Not everyone that gets a golden, is in it for the long haul if problems develop. Most people on this forum are probably wonderful golden families, but there are more in this world that are not..If we, as responsible dog breeders, do our research, do our health testing, know what is in the extended pedigree of the dogs we plan to breed, then we can adopt puppies into new homes with an understanding that we are doing our best for a family to have a wonderful "golden" experience.


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## tsdairy (Dec 9, 2007)

scherber said:


> TSDairy
> 
> Unfortunately, it is not just hips, eyes, heart, cerf...you have to worry about.
> What about epilipsy, thyroid, allergies ---many things that you would not have a history about. Let me ask you this...why would you have a $50 dog left unnuetured, just because he was a pretty boy. And only registered with an aca :doh:. Do you plan on using this boy in the future on the four females that you have purchased for breeding I would be worrying about cleft pallets, not only on the puppies that would be produced from any future breedings with him...but on the oooops breeding that he has already sired.
> ...


Let's say this; I KNOW those are not the only health concerns, I am not an idiot. My vet used to raise goldens and I will go with her recommendations and she thinks I have nice pedigrees, awesome dogs and is going to help me get all their clearances and exams done they need. And Shadow I got for 50 because the guy sold the rest of his litter for 600, He was leaving saturday and said if i got him by then I could have him for that. SHadow is a beautiful dog AND HE IS AKC. Has lots of clearances in his pedigree and quite a few champions. I did not buy originally FOR breeding. Saddie is NOT used and won't be for breeding, she is strictly pet, and she is the only ACA we have she is strictly my sons dog, had her for 4 years and geez, no pups. Lilly I doubt I will use for breeding again due to her not having the type of pedigree I would like, just because a dog is not ALL champions throughout peds does NOT mean that they are worthless. That said I do want to try showing my destiny, shadow, faith and apollo, and am looking into handlers. Destiny will be if she passes and does well as she has a very nice pedigree with LOTS clearances. Faith and Apollo will be also. So I'll have two males and 2 females that i will use. And I have 5 generations pedigrees from AKC on all the dogs.

Per my vet. Cleft pallets just 'happen' it isn't necessarily a hereditary thing. 1 in so many litters have them. And it was the roof of her mouth not fully fused, she was also runt of the litter. You can have two completely untested dogs have perfectly healthy fine pups, and vise versa you can have two tested parents and have a unhealthy pup. Same thing in a human.

Oh and my dad DIED of lung and brain cancer on my 30th birthday in my arms; my dogs were the LAST thing on my mind. Wanna see the obit.


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## tsdairy (Dec 9, 2007)

Jazzys Mom said:


> Awww, TSDairy! No lectures from this end! So, you had an opps. Happens to the best of us. You did everything right that you could have done and its evident that you desperately love your babies!
> 
> Hugs
> Jazzys Mom


Thank you very much. I do appreciate that. And I do desperately love all my dogs for the long haul, in sickness and health for richer or poorer!


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## Emmysourgolden (Oct 10, 2007)

I don't know what's going on lately on this thread, just haven't kept up. I just want to offer you my condolences on the loss of your Dad. I'm very sorry.


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## scherber (Dec 1, 2007)

Lets just say when you posted your info you were not complete with ALL the info .

My condolences for the loss of your father.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Scherber,
No where in TSDairy's original post did it say *ALL* of her dogs were aca! It said her *SADDIE* was aca and she is not using Saddie for breeding. She has beautiful dogs and plans to have all the clearances done so imho she is doing all the right things.

TSDairy, I am so sorry about your Dad. I lost my Dad when I was just 25 and it is such a hard thing to weather! Just remember, you will see him again and when you do he won't be sick any longer!

Hugs
Jazzys Mom


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## tsdairy (Dec 9, 2007)

Thank you so much. I do miss him horribly. I attended grief counseling for 6 weeks and now in regular counseling to try to get better. The circumstances around his death weren't all normal. Afteards his wife of just 8m had a new boyfriend moved in 2 weeks later. And didnt really give us kids anything of our dads. Most was given away or sold. Long story. It was horrid and I don't wish it upon a soul! But thank you so much for the condolenses. 

Jazzys Mom, I'm so sorry for your loss as well. I can honestly say I know how it feels to lose someone that close now. And I do hope I see him again. Not too soon though as I wished before. My goldens have helped me so much with healing. Its that unconditional love they give you. They got some magical power over me! lol...


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## Emmysourgolden (Oct 10, 2007)

tsdairy said:


> Thank you so much. I do miss him horribly. I attended grief counseling for 6 weeks and now in regular counseling to try to get better. The circumstances around his death weren't all normal. Afteards his wife of just 8m had a new boyfriend moved in 2 weeks later. And didnt really give us kids anything of our dads. Most was given away or sold. Long story. It was horrid and I don't wish it upon a soul! But thank you so much for the condolenses.
> 
> Jazzys Mom, I'm so sorry for your loss as well. I can honestly say I know how it feels to lose someone that close now. And I do hope I see him again. Not too soon though as I wished before. My goldens have helped me so much with healing. Its that unconditional love they give you. They got some magical power over me! lol...


Moved in 2 months after your dad passed?? I am so sorry!


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

tsdairy said:


> Thank you so much. I do miss him horribly. I attended grief counseling for 6 weeks and now in regular counseling to try to get better. The circumstances around his death weren't all normal. *Afteards his wife of just 8m had a new boyfriend moved in 2 weeks later. And didnt really give us kids anything of our dads*. Most was given away or sold. Long story. It was horrid and I don't wish it upon a soul! But thank you so much for the condolenses.
> 
> Jazzys Mom, I'm so sorry for your loss as well. I can honestly say I know how it feels to lose someone that close now. And I do hope I see him again. Not too soon though as I wished before. My goldens have helped me so much with healing. Its that unconditional love they give you. They got some magical power over me! lol...


 
Oh, how awful! I can only say to just try to put it all behind you and let God deal with her as only He can do. I know how those Goldens help heal though. Wonderful fur balls aren't they?

JAzzys Mom


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## tsdairy (Dec 9, 2007)

Emmysourgolden: he was there 2 WEEKS later! Even the worse. She's a gold digger is all i can say. And she's 52 (dad died right after he turned 50) and um.... Her FIRST husband died the EXACT same thing... At that young of an age.... SO... There is a PI looking into things deeper as the initial search they couldn't even find her existance AT ALL. Like she don't exist. Anyway. I try not to think about it as it makes me physically sick. One good thing is he was buried here next to his mom and dad 20 minutes from me and not out there all alone in denver.

Jazzys Mom. I am sure trying to put it behind me; it does get easier as the months go. Been 7m now as of yesterday. And SO right about those goldens! Apollo is the one who I named Love for Apollo; my dad's horse was named Apollo. My dad loved that arab mroe than us kids I said sometimes. That horse owned my dad. I was like searching for apollo and found him. I LOVE all my goldens don't get me wrong. They area all my babies and I wouldn't trade them for all hte $ in the world. But there is that little extra 'thing' with apollo and I knew it from the second I held him, I just knew. I was drawn to him immediately out of all his littermates. I actually cried when I was holding him, that's how I knew. Now that was a novel huh! LOL My friends tell me i should write a book about my life!


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Is that Apollo in your avatar? Hes just beautiful!

Jazzys Mom


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## tsdairy (Dec 9, 2007)

Yes Jazzys Mom that is Sir Apollo! thank you! I'm counting down the days to get him cept now we are in a 'blizzard' with bitter cold so hoepfully we still get him Friday! AHHHH


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## gandalfluvgolden (Jan 10, 2008)

I live in New Jersey. Golden here seems very expensive. I've never 
seen any puppy less than $600(that's actually the lowest price and I met the breeder in PA). Gold rush is just too expensive. $1,500 for a puppy, who can tell me if it is worthy? I am buying the healthy puppy too, not show dog.


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## Nicci831 (Aug 9, 2007)

We paid $1200.00 each for ours and one has ED and HD...sucky breeder


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## gandalfluvgolden (Jan 10, 2008)

Golden Miles' Dad said:


> I paid $350, and I have heard of some as much as $500 in the area.
> I got Miles from a local backyard breeder. I called my dentist who has a gorgeous golden and asked him for some advice. His Vet knew of some one who had just had a litter.
> I met the parents and the owner had even owned the grandfather of Miles. The whole litter was gorgeous and healthy.
> Miles' father was 130 pounds, and Miles is now at 115 at only 2 years old! and in great shape!


130 pounds? that is way too much, isnt it? the breed standard is 75-85!


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## gandalfluvgolden (Jan 10, 2008)

Nicci831 said:


> We paid $1200.00 each for ours and one has ED and HD...sucky breeder


that's a lot of money!!! What makes ppl sure that a puppy is healthy anyway? By having OFA clearance on both Sire and dam and a fancy championbloodline? What else? 

Sometimes, I just dont feel the difference of those puppies, not saying I tried to visualize what I am not capable to see through their cute bodies. If a puppy's Sire and dam has clearance showing good or normal or fair hips, should I buy it? 

And as to those puppies were bred by puppy mills, what is gonna happen to them? I felt sooo sorry if nobody will buy them home!!!! I once went to PA, not sure if the guy I was talking to is a BYB, but he doesnt have any OFA clearance and it was their third litters already. I was asking him to do the OFA test but he said thats something he will do after this litter. My wife loves puppy so much but I was afraid paying a lot of medical expenses later on and walked away from that breeder.


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

My KayCee ended up having luxating patellas--none in her history. my vet said it wa a fluke. It happens. I remember once on Animal planet, can't remember if it was That's my Baby, or the Emergency Vets, there was a puppy with clef pallet and it died. Was so sad. poor little thing couldn't suckled and i sat there crying. Up until that time i never knew that could happen to animals, just humans.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

tsdairy said:


> Yes Jazzys Mom that is Sir Apollo! thank you! I'm counting down the days to get him cept now we are in a 'blizzard' with bitter cold so hoepfully we still get him Friday! AHHHH


Oh, I hope the snow and cold are gone by Friday or that you can get him by snowmobile or something! It would be awful if you couldn't get there! What part of the country are you in? We are in the Chicago area and it snowed about 3 inches last night and just began to snow again. Over the weekend is was below zero!

Jazzys Mom


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## lhappytwenty (Nov 6, 2007)

We bought our golden back in Washington and I think he was $400...no problems so far (unless over happiness is a problem!). We weren't able to afford the expensive ones, but got ours from a farm out in the country. It was a really sweet Mennonite family who breed their two goldens every three years or so. The pup came with papers as well. We weren't planning on showing him or anything though, so that might be why he was so cheap.


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

My first golden--Sasha #1 was $600...she was from a newspaper ad, at that time I didn't know anything about clearances, etc. She was a wonderful girl and I still miss her--she suffered her whole life with itchy feet and ear infections (it could have been food allergies). 

Jack was also $600...and also from a newspaper ad. He is a loveable, goofy, mellow-fellow but suffers from noise phobias. 

Biscuit and Sasha I bought from the same breeder for $1200 each (a year and a half apart in age). Their parents have all of the clearances and they come from good lines. They are both extroverted in their personalities and have no fear issues, allergies, and so far no medical issues but they are both very smart but are dominant in personality and Sasha is more so than Biscuit!


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## tsdairy (Dec 9, 2007)

Jazzys Mom said:


> Oh, I hope the snow and cold are gone by Friday or that you can get him by snowmobile or something! It would be awful if you couldn't get there! What part of the country are you in? We are in the Chicago area and it snowed about 3 inches last night and just began to snow again. Over the weekend is was below zero!
> 
> Jazzys Mom


 
I do too! Thank you! The snow is stopped, it's BITTER but now the wind is to pick up 40mph plus this afternoon so UGH. But weird thing Friday is to be 30 and right now we're at 0, - something with windchill in there. I live in Nebraska! NE corner where NE/IA/SD all hook up kinda. I'll just hook on to the back of a semi (they never slow down) and slide all the way up there! LOL. I'd love to see Chicago. I had a chance to go with an old BF was too darn scared to go! I've lived in Denver but scared of Chicago! LOL

Last tiem we had significatn snow a month or so ago, trevor hit aj's sled coming downthe hill and had to go to er and get 5 or 7 stitches! In his forehead! TERRIBLE. Last year we hooked up one of the 4-wheelers to the sleds and did that. It was fun. Haven't doen that this year. Kyle wants to hook up a lil sled to shadow (he's a big huge brute) but I won't let him as I don't think it's a good idea for Shadows hips/joints/body. He's big but still. He's not built for that I don't think and he's only 16/17 months old. 4 wheeler does just fine! 

Off topic here, but Kyle wanted a siberian Husky. I don't care for them cause we have a lot of farm animals and my own goldens here ya know. WELL. I am never so glad we didn't get one after last month my friends' got out of the kennel which had a mesh top on it and killed two of her poms for no reason! THAT is scary. SO, no way ever gonna happen here! That's where kyle got the sled on a dog idea. They do that with their huskies! LOL


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Oh wow! You really are in cold country! Don't be afraid of Chicago. Its a beautiful city and you'd love our downtown lakefront! If you come here come in the summer - lots more things to do. Navy Pier is a really fun place to go. In the summer you can walk the outside of the pier with all the little shops, ferris wheel and theatre. If it rains you can just go inside where there is a huge mall. The grounds are really pretty too! Lots to do here in the summertime!

I think you are absolutely right not to hook the dog up to the sleds. He he way too young and it could damage his hips

Praying that you get nice weather on Friday so you can go get Apollo. Post pics when you get the little guy home!

Hugs
Jazzys Mom


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## tsdairy (Dec 9, 2007)

Maybe Terry and I can take a mini vacation out there sometime! It would be fun! 

I have never been able to find anything on hips and pulling but did find a lot on climbing stairs, kennel fencing, running too much, excessive exercise. Jumping a lot. So I do try to limit teh excessive stuff. 

Oh I hope so too! It's gonna blow like mad today and snow some more, but we got a coupel 4x4's so hopefully it isn't too nasty! I'll be crushed if I don't get him. lol... Hell I'd probly go in a blizzard! LOL. Faith needs a buddy to play wiht. I got some new pics of her, ,they are a touch blurred cause the cam was on teh wrong setting but i'll post them and hope they aren't TOO bad. She is getting so big!!!


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Here's a funny story for you ------

We were to pick Jasmine up at the breeder's on May 22nd at 1pm. This was a Monday. Early Monday morning, about 1am hubby woke up with funny pains but wasn't too sure just where they were or what they were. Well, I got up with him and we sat on the couch for awhile and they got worse so I made him some tea and began to worry how we were going to go get the puppy. It was a 3 1/2 hour drive! I sat up with him all night but kept asking "what are we going to do? How are we going to get the puppy?" He kept saying, "Just be quiet and let me sit here." I was in a panic. Thought about calling my BIL or our friends 2 blocks over to go with me. At about 5:30 hubby got up, took his shower and we left about 6am to go get her. Hubby still sick. Wouldn't eat anything, he was afraid to. We picked her up at 1pm and drove back home. That was Monday. On Wednesday hubby ended up in the ER where he was admitted for acute gall bladder. They tried to do surgery on Friday but his gall bladder was so enlarged it was imbedded 3/4 of the way into the liver so they couldn't even see where to begin cutting! He came home with 3 different drains and they finally did the surgery, along with colon surgery late August!! Now hubby tells everyone he was sitting here at death's door and I was only worried about picking Jasmine up!:

Jazzys Mom


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## winewinn (Jan 7, 2008)

gandalfluvgolden said:


> 130 pounds? that is way too much, isnt it? the breed standard is 75-85!


I believe in the US it's 65-75 for dogs, 55-65 for bitches.


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## tsdairy (Dec 9, 2007)

Jazzys Mom said:


> Here's a funny story for you ------
> 
> We were to pick Jasmine up at the breeder's on May 22nd at 1pm. This was a Monday. Early Monday morning, about 1am hubby woke up with funny pains but wasn't too sure just where they were or what they were. Well, I got up with him and we sat on the couch for awhile and they got worse so I made him some tea and began to worry how we were going to go get the puppy. It was a 3 1/2 hour drive! I sat up with him all night but kept asking "what are we going to do? How are we going to get the puppy?" He kept saying, "Just be quiet and let me sit here." I was in a panic. Thought about calling my BIL or our friends 2 blocks over to go with me. At about 5:30 hubby got up, took his shower and we left about 6am to go get her. Hubby still sick. Wouldn't eat anything, he was afraid to. We picked her up at 1pm and drove back home. That was Monday. On Wednesday hubby ended up in the ER where he was admitted for acute gall bladder. They tried to do surgery on Friday but his gall bladder was so enlarged it was imbedded 3/4 of the way into the liver so they couldn't even see where to begin cutting! He came home with 3 different drains and they finally did the surgery, along with colon surgery late August!! Now hubby tells everyone he was sitting here at death's door and I was only worried about picking Jasmine up!:
> 
> Jazzys Mom


HAHAHA Oh boy that is a good story! Thank God he is okay! WOA. I'd probly have been the same way if it were Terry let's go let's go! lol.... Kids got out fo school early today ANOTHER snow storm just after we dug out and thought we were okay here it is AGAIN this itme it's snowing and blowing at the same time! UGH NOOOOOOOOOOO I got 4x4 so HA! LMAO.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Oh boy! Only 2 days to go! I hope you can get dug out enough and the roads are ok by Friday

Jazzys Mom


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## tsdairy (Dec 9, 2007)

I GOT HIM I GOT HIM! OMG he's so perfect! I take him to the vet tonight! He's a big ol polar bear! HOLY TOLEDO! Freaking cutest thing ever! SO mellow. Faith is a wild child compared to him!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Yay!!! take pics!!!!


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

tsdairy
Well here is my feeling!!!

:worthless


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Yipee! I am so glad you got him! Now, bring youself back down from the clouds long enough to post pics! No fair, teasing us this way! We need to see the butterball!

Jazzys Mom


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## sareza (Apr 9, 2009)

rogersji said:


> Just purchased my golden from Tomiskaway Kennels in Georgetown for $600. The breeder asked some very tough questions at the beginning of our session until she realized we had just lost our golden.


We are going to visit Tomiskaway tomorrow. How did it go? What do you mean by "tough" questions?


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

Let's actually do the math here.

A $700 dog from a puppy mill costs you 16 cents a day over a 12 year lifespan.
A $1200 dog from a quality hobby breeder costs you 27 cents a day over 12 years.

What can you buy for your dog for 11 cents? A half a handful of kibble? 

And if the $700 puppy mill dog ends up with hip dysplasia or a heart condition or a thyroid condition, you could easily swallow that $500 difference in one vet visit, and still have a dog with a shortened life, or a compromised quality of life. Good breeders aren't cheap or easy to find, but neither is the best dog hip surgeon, or the best canine behaviorist.

(Read the story of Millie, on page 17 of this thread. The owner haggled the price from $550 to $300. Unfortunately, she ended up having a double hip surgery at eight months. No word on what that cost, but waaaay more than $550, I'm sure.)

No, buying from a quality breeder doesn't guarantee your dog will be healthy and well-adjusted, but having four or five generations of clearances has to increase your chances of having a healthy, happy dog. And for a dime a day, it seems like very cheap insurance. 

That's the actuarial analysis.

Here's the real world example. We spend $1,200 for Tessie from a high quality breeder, a price which is a little on the low side for the New York Metro area. 
She's a beautiful, sweet-tempered dog, and she's been completely healthy so far. 

In the four months we've had her, we've spent the folllowing.
Gating an already fenced backyard: $1,350
Crates and interior gates: $180
Routine vet visits and vaccines: $270
Emergency vet visits (she ate a sock): $1,100
Dog Food (Purina Pro Plan): $160
Toys, chewies, Bowls, Kongs: $160
Puppy Kindergarten: $140
Mileage to buy all this: $100

Total: $3,460

We're approaching an amount that's triple the purchase price in only the first four months of having our pup, and we were very conservative, buying only what was really necessary.

The "ate a sock" adventure was the only thing that wasn't "normal" but she didn't have to have surgery, and it's not a particularly unusual expenditure either. And unlike most pups, Tessie didn't chew anything of value which could be added into the equation.

Even if you remove the emergency vet bill, you're still over $2,400, double the purchase price.

It's easy to forget how expensive it can be to own a dog. And in the context of the substantial "cost of ownership" the initial purchase price is really a drop in the bucket. Skimping on the purchase price when there are health and temperament issues involved strikes me as penny wise and pound foolish.

best
Allen


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## ReleaseTheHounds (Feb 12, 2009)

If you can't afford to buy a dog from a reputable breeder then you can't afford to have a dog. If that 500 buck difference is such a strain on your finances then you can't afford to have a dog.

I see a lot of selfishness in this thread to be honest. You weren't born into this world with a right to own a dog and the sense of entitlement is startling to say the least. I'm sure I'm being rude again so I'll back out now...


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

The joy a healthy, well-bred golden brings you....priceless.




avincent52 said:


> Gating an already fenced backyard: $1,350
> Crates and interior gates: $180
> Routine vet visits and vaccines: $270
> Emergency vet visits (she ate a sock): $1,100
> ...


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## kgiff (Jul 21, 2008)

Emmysourgolden said:


> Anyway, my question is what about those who can't afford to spend top dollar for a golden companion?


This is a really difficult question for me to answer. Our first golden was $150. We lost him at 2 1/2 to cancer. In those 2 1/2 years we spent close to $15K on him on medical expenses alone. If someone can't afford to spend top dollar on a golden, how are they going to pay to take care of him down the road? 

If they saved they money it would take to care of a dog for a year, instead of having to get the dog now, they'd have the money to buy a golden from a reputable breeder and would also know that they could afford the dog.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

I think you answered the question beautifully and hopefully it will help other owners (and their dogs) to avoid the heartache you experienced.


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## artbuc (Apr 12, 2009)

Emmysourgolden said:


> The thread about whether or not to breed a golden has got me thinking. I AM NOT trying to start a fight here. I'm curious to hear everyone's opinions.
> 
> I'm not even sure how much anyone that breeds on this forum charges for a pup. I do know from when we were searching for a puppy, 6 years ago, some of the prices were WAY out of our price range. I think we paid $300 for Em. We, were pretty clueless back then about all the clearances...etc. Had we only accepted those with all the clearances...etc I don't think we'd have a golden today because of the price.
> 
> ...


I almost paid $2000 for a puppy before I decided to rescue. The breeder is top notch. She has great dogs and sells them like hotcakes. I think she sets the price high to make sure potential owners will be good owners. Don't think she needs the money just wants good homes for her pups.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I have skimmed over this thread but here is my 2¢.

I have always in the past bought from first litters the breeder seeing if a dog will be a good mommy, daddy maybe certified but not registered. Or from the newspaper. I try to ask good questions to make sure the people are thinking correctly. All of my goldens have been good dogs, health wise with "1" exception. I have paid from $50 - $400 for my dogs. 

However Teddi I think I paid $400 for has been a VERY expensive dog. We currently have over $6000 invested in her (she is 2 1/2 now). She has needed a total hip replacement, and may need elbow surgery in her future. I would MUCH rather next time find a good breeder, nice pup and pay up front than to go through what I have with Teddi. I realize clearances are not a guarantee, but the lessen your chances. A good breeder would probably back me up if there were a problem too, refund part of the money or whatever. I doubt I could ever do the "new dog" route because I become way too attached way too fast. 

I am in the market relatively soon for a new lab, I am starting to look for breeders. I am really nervous. I want to do the right things yet I feel so dumb still. I know what I do not want healthwise, and I know the type I do want but how to weed out and find the right dog. I have time, I am not in a hurry. I just hope it goes well this time. My pocket book needs a break. 

Now just to confirm, I LOVE Teddi with all my heart, but it also breaks my heart she will never be the dog we bought her to be. She can not compete in agility which was our main plan for her. She is always going to be my special baby, and I hope she lives a long life I have no regrets, just my wallet does. I feel bad she has to have to a life that includes pain.


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## murphy'sDad (Jan 11, 2008)

We paid $500 for Murphy. Got to see both parents. I did my homework on the breeder we used and had great recommendations from a number of people. Also, it helps when the breeder is the second generation ( Father and daughter have been in business for thirty years).


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## hermione hewitt (Oct 24, 2007)

Hermione, cost me 600 pounds, which is about $850 dollers, but her day was a crufs champion


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

An expensive Golden that is bred from properly cleared parents that were carefully chosen is a LOT cheaper than an inexpensive Golden that was bred without attention to those details.

Maybe not at first, but in the long run you can be talking about thousands and thousands of dollars in Vet Bills.

Yes, it can happen to any Golden, but one that was properly bred has a much better chance of not getting caught up in it.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

I've done it all... Most before I was as careful as I am now, and a whole lot more educated.

Rusty, my first, came from a farm in El Cajon CA in 1987. He was a year old when I got him. The people I got him from took him in when their neighbors disappeared, leaving all the horses, dogs, cows, sheep you name it without care. They never knew the exact reason, but all the visits and mail from the IRS were probably a pretty good clue.

He lived 10 years, and passed from Cancer. He was 100% healthy his entire life until the very day he died.

I got Nikita in 1992 when I bought my house, and wanted a companion for him. I got her from a pet store. No, I had no idea about all that puppy mill stuff at the time. She only lived 8 years, passing from Cancer.

When Rusty died, I got Comet to be Nikita's companion. He came from a professional breeder out in Broadway, VA. Some would consider him a high-volume breeder, but he is NOT a puppy mill. All the proper clearances, etc... were in place and Comet lived to a good age of 12 before succumbing to Cancer in January of this year. Comet was the best of all of them, both in health and personality.

When Nikita Died, Dakota was the next purchase to be Comet's friend. Dakota was an interesting purchase  I needed a companion for Comet, but didn't have a lot of money at the time. I found a co-worker that had bred his Goldens, and he wanted a Guitar Amplifier. I had one, he had a Golden Puppy, and Voila!

Dakota was a really great dog, but he was not the healthiest. His food allergies and ear issues were Epic. California Natural Dog Food got us past that. But then he developed Epilepsy at around 4.5 years. He lived with that until just 2 weeks ago when he died, just short of 10, due to complications of a cluster of seizures he had.

He also had a bad habit of eating things he should not. The "Great Gravel Incident" of 1997 cost me over $5000 in vet bills. In total, Dakota cost me around $10,000 during his life in Vet bills. I paid every penny willingly (though it will take me years to pay off).

And now there's Gilmour. I've not researched anything in my life as much as I did during the search for him, and his purchase. The education I got from this BBS, the referrals, and a last-minute save from making a deposit at what turned out to be a very bad place is something I am very grateful for.

Yes, he cost me $1200 (which is on the lower end of average) but he came from a very respected breeder of 38 years, and from very carefully selected parents. His Mom has all the right clearances and history. His Pop has clearances that go way beyond what even most breeders here do  Both parents are from well known lines, and he has 43 champions in his 5 generation Pedigree. The support the breeder has provided, starting WEEKS before delivery and continuing even today is unmatched.

There are no guarantee's with living things, but with Gilmour I believe I have the best possible chance of having him for a very long time.

There is an astounding amount of knowledge to be found here. I'm sure glad I listened to it


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

I bought my first golden from a BYB 12 years ago for $350, registered with the CKC. We didn't know anything about health clearances, pedigree, anything back then. We just wanted to get a Golden. Ryder was an amazing dog. He was smart, great temperment, sooo handsome, and very healthy until he was 9. We found out then, when he starting coughing, that he had Mitral Valve Displasia. The cardiologists said it wasn't anything hereditary, just something that happened. We had to have him put down at 10 years old. Broke my heart. When we decided to get another one, after what we went through with Ryder, I wanted some guarantee. Although I know what happened to Ryder was not the BYBer's fault, I just wanted some peace of mind. The generations of clearances that came with Timber's pedigree does put my mind at ease, although I do know that anything can happen at any time. We paid $900 for Timber and he was well worth it. If you break it down, it's not very much for the years of love and devotion they give us.


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

In Canada you pay $900 and up for a puppy from a reputable breeder. I figure, if I buy from somebody who has paid to have clearances done on their dogs, it is less that I would need to pay for correcting problems later. I am also willing to pay for a puppy from long lived lines--delaying the heartbreak of losing a dog early is priceless to me! I don't have tons of money to spend on a pup, but I only do it every 12 years and want to make sure that the pup I bring into my family is a good one. It is why I go to a reputable breeder and not through the classified ads. Good breeders who have researched their lines produce awesome goldens! Casey is our second dog from his breeder because we think she and her dogs are awesome! 
If you can't afford to buy a dog from a reputable breeder (who belongs to the local golden retriever club and shows dogs in conformation, obedience, agility etc), go for a rescue dog or a golden from the humane society--they do end up there, unfortunately!


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## GoBeyondGreen (Nov 22, 2008)

I know that some people want to know about the lineage and all that, but personally, I got my golden from a family who had a golden that they wanted to have one litter and then spay. We found her on Craigslist, advertised for $75, because they were not in it for a profit, just wanted to let their dog have a litter. Brandi is a year and four months old, and the PERFECT dog. We love her so much. A dog does not have to be expensive to be a great member of your family. Just because one comes from a breeder doesn't mean that it won't have problems; and just because one doesn't come from a breeder doesn't mean that it will.


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## winewinn (Jan 7, 2008)

Kimm said:


> Would microchipping pups before they go to their new home help alleviate those fears? I know in Tucker's case had he not been brought back to his breeder, they would have never known. The buyer kept her contract with them and we had him micro-chipped.
> 
> We got lucky when we needed the cash for Shadow's surgeries. Although most wouldn't say I was lucky. I hadn't gotten a raise in 3 years and it was retroactive. I also had to for the very first time, cross a picket line. That was not something I would have ever done in my life before.


I microchip puppies before they go home. It also helps protect the breeder to verify that the pup originated from the breeder, in case someone tries to switch dogs in order to get a breeder to honor a portion of a contract. I own a scanner, and it's very simple to verify then. 

I have heard stories of people owning dogs attempting to get their money back from a reputable breeder with a different dog with health problems that wasn't from the breeder. 

It just keeps everyone honest, and I figure hopefully by having that microchip the new owners will be more encouraged to get OFA certifications as they will already not have to hassel with getting a microchip. (You have to be able to verify identity now to get hip certifications through OFA.)


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## kjarv24 (Nov 7, 2008)

I skimmed over this thread, & I think those of you who can't afford a puppy from a top notch breeder who is doing right by the breed - Which is "me!" also, We definitely don't have $800+ to just buy a puppy!
Then Saving is the answer, I think if you can't afford the puppy to begin with then where is the Vet Care funding coming from?! I think Having at least a small lump sum sitting that will not be touch unless its FOR your Golden is a must! & That's what we have, and money goes in it every month. Or Pet Insurance, If you can find a good reliable one!
We got Jake from a family who needed to find him a home Because they were having many financial issues, We did pay for him but not much. 
I think a lot of people KNOW about the good breeders out there and probably have the mentality, Well I'm just one person, its just one puppy, & its not going to harm anything - But IMO it does, Because so many people are doing & saying that exact same thing & it all adds up quickly.
Either way, For those who do or don't do this I of course don't look down on anyone, everyone makes their own choices and who Am I to judge.
I love All Goldens/Dogs no Matter where they came from, to end my rant.


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## bigds01 (May 25, 2009)

Our theory has always been pay now or pay later. 

We are paying $1200 for our puppy from GapView, we paid $2500 for our bulldog who has been absolutely perfect for the last 6 years. Our smooth collie who other then being a little stiff in the hips is a healthy 8 year old and she was 900 or so.

The cats we have all started at 1000 and up. Universally we have been very lucky to get healthy pets and what we paid for. We had a cat that we hadn't paid much for, didn't know to research the breeder, spent $7000 in one week and still had to put him to sleep.

Pay now or pay later.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

I don't believe that its in the money you pay for an animal, but the breeder you get the animal from. A respectable breeder will have bred to increase the gene pool of the breed and NOT just breed any dog or cat with any other just to get puppies (or kittens) to make money off of. This in no way suggests that a dog or cat from a highly respected breeder cannot get ill with a life threatening disease, including cancer. If a breeder tells you that they have had NO dogs that have had cancer then this is a breeder I would run from. In Goldens specifically, I think ALL breeders have had this in their lines, somewhere, you just can't get away from it in Goldens. On another note - many years ago my son saw a sweet little gray kitten in a pet shop. He was $10.00 (that tells you how long ago this was lol). We took him home with us and for the next 18 years he was the best cat ever! He was NEVER sick - only went to the vet for neutering and his shots. NEver even had to take him in a cat carrier! If a dog came into the vet's waiting room while we were there I just held him with his face away from the dog. He actually lived with a Bassett Hound and they were best friends until she died at age 10. My Caesar cat died at age 18 from a massive stroke! Best $10.00 we ever spent!


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## kiranddoug (Jun 16, 2009)

When my husband and I first got married, we got a golden retriever from a pet store in Utica, MI. I knew nothing of puppy mills then...but boy did we learn. At 10 months, Carmel became lame due to severe hip dysplasia.
Now, nearly 10 years later, we have gotten our second golden from a reputable breeder and paid $1,000. We have been very happy with the breeder and the quality of their puppies. Since bringing home our guy, the breeder has even called multiple times to check and see how we are doing and see whether or not we have any new questions. 
They do hips, heart, eyes and elbows, first shots, micro chipped and are not sent home till 8 weeks. They are very knowledgable and have shown dogs, and are involved with Fort Detroit Golden Retriever Club.
I know that there is always a chance of a health issue, but I would like to limit the chance of having to go through that heart break again.


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## meadowmist (May 27, 2009)

We purchased our pup for $500. The breeder had bred before, seven years ago. She kept one female pup from that litter. She bred that pup this past year, and it was from that litter we received Scout. Scout's Mom and Grandma are the breeder's pets, and from this litter she kept a female pup. I received all the clearance info and have his pedigree five generations back. This breeder was not a 'professional' breeder, but I felt she did have a vested interest as she was keeping one from the litter.


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## wagondog (Aug 24, 2007)

Harley came from a very well known Golden Retriever conformation judge who has been breeding her line for 40 years. Both bitch and sire have complete clearances. Right before I purchased Harley her pet quality Goldens were priced at $1200. The Golden Retriever club of which she is an officer suggested that she be inline with the rest of the members for pups which was 1500.00 for a pet. she was against it but went to 1400.00.
My feeling is the cost of a pup is dwarfed by the maintenance costs through the dogs lifetime. Up front it seems high but across the span of the dog's life at hopefully 10 years the cost is 140.00 per year, not even the cost of one of his vet visits.
My opinion is if you have the resources there is nothing immoral about buying the best dog you can afford. If you choose to rescue, even better, but an older dog does not fit everyones needs.
I have thought about how expensive the tv was and the car, but have never thought about what my dog cost me.
WagonDog


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

> I have thought about how expensive the tv was and the car, but have never thought about what my dog cost me.


That pretty much sums it up, Wagondog


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