# Bloat: raised bowls or not?



## Laurie (Sep 20, 2009)

Our bowls were on the floor......we lost Phoenix to bloat in March, 2009.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I am so very sorry Laurie. One of my greatest fears.


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## halfmoon (Apr 2, 2009)

sorry didn't read the question close enough, we haven't had any bloat (and pray we never do) but we do feed from raised bowls


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## Laurie (Sep 20, 2009)

Debles said:


> I am so very sorry Laurie. One of my greatest fears.


 
Thanks Deb.....it haunts me to this day!!


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

My old guy bloated in June of 2010. We were very lucky, got him to the vet in time, and they were able to do surgery and save him. He does not eat or drink out of elevated bowls.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Laurie said:


> Thanks Deb.....it haunts me to this day!!


It haunts me too, that you lost Phoenix to this. 

Daisy bloated from water, bowl on the floor, right after I brought her home from the hospital after ACL surgery. 

I personally don't think it matters where the bowl is at. What I learned from our experience is to never let a dog drink a lot of water when they're excited, especially if they've been out of commission for a time (like in surgery). Now when Daisy needs surgery, I put her water bowl up before she comes home. For the first 12 hours or so, I give her 1 cup every 1/2 hour.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

That makes sense to me, JoEllen. I think bloat has more to do with stress to the dog's body. Such as running hard after eating (or right before) , drinking tons of water after exercising and hot, etc.
I try to make the boys be quiet before and after they eat for at least an hour and exercise more than two hours after a meal.
And I don't let them drink a ton of water when they come in .

Selka ate from a raised bowl his entire life and so has Gunner (knock on wood)


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

There are studies done that indicate raising food bowls contributes to bloat.... I have had 9 goldens and all have eaten on the floor. No bloat...


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I am aware of the studies.. that's why I am doing the poll here. There have been many cases of bloat on GRF and I want to know how many had raised bowls.

If any of you know of someone here on GRF who has had a dog bloat, please ask them to reply on the poll. Thanks!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

So I have nine with bowls on the floor and no bloat.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

What is it about raised bowls that is thought to contribute to bloat?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

We feed from little cereal bowls on the floor.  

I did put "other" though... because when our two old men got up in age and they had bad days we put the bowls on a step stool for them. Because they refused to eat lying down. Especially Danny.

As far as preventing bloat, I've heard that feeding smaller meals helps. Same thing with keeping them from going off and rolling after they eat. Or playfighting.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

In the morning, Daisy eats and goes outside and rolls. Every morning. She's never had bloat from that.


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## 2golddogs (Oct 19, 2009)

I lost our golden Steadly to bloat when he was 11 and his bowls were on the floor. Since then our dogs have been fed and drink from bowls that are slightly elevated off the floor. I also don't let the boys run and play for at least an hour after eating in the morning and the evening.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

halfmoon said:


> sorry didn't read the question close enough, we haven't had any bloat (and pray we never do) but we do feed from raised bowls


 
me too. I guess we cancel one another since we have ours on the floor and have never had an incidence of bloat. Sorry Deb....


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Jo, supposedly when the neck is straight out, they get more air. When the bowl is on the floor and head down, they don't get as much air.
Sasha seems to get more air when he eats food dry and then he burps alot.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I also figure if a dog burps, then the air doesn't build up in the stomach!


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

Sally's Mom said:


> I also figure if a dog burps, then the air doesn't build up in the stomach!


I was feeling better until this comment:doh:  
Ike was a burper and his bowls were elevated. I lowered the bowls and he's no longer burping. So, is this because there is trapped air now, or because there is no longer air getting into his stomach?

I fed Sam from raised bowls in his senior years. He had a partially paralyzed larynx and would get food caught in his airway. Raising his bowls helped stop this. I had been feeding Ike from raised bowls once he was tall enough, thinking it was safer to do so. Ike was a burper until I lowered his bowls. Now he hardly burps. ?

& now I'm more confused...


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Jo Ellen said:


> In the morning, Daisy eats and goes outside and rolls. Every morning. She's never had bloat from that.


I'm not quite educated about this so I could be wrong. I'm mainly going by what I know of my horse. If his stomach bothers him in the least bit and he seems anxious, he needs to be put in cross ties to keep him from rolling. Or hand-walked until the vet arrives, for that matter. I know of too many horses who were not caught in time and they wound up getting their stomachs twisted and had to be put down. One of my most favorite mares (she was my next choice if I wasn't able to buy my guy) died when she was only 14 because this happened to her. 

So as far as dogs go... if there is a chance that they are the types who will have bloat after eating, I would assume that rolling in that next hour or whatever would encourage theirs stomachs to get twisted. Right?


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I think we might all have a different experience of bloat (if it's happened to our dogs) and so it changes us all differently, I suppose.

With Daisy, she bloated immediately after drinking water. It was so obvious. I had no experience with bloat previous to that, yet it was so obvious I knew that's what it was. Within seconds, really. 

I'm not afraid of food or her eating. I am terrified of water. Still to this day, I never fill her bowl all the way, and if I hear her drinking for too long, I stop her. 

So after she's eaten in the morning, and drank a bit of water, if she's fine when she walks away from her bowls, I relax and let her be. For me, if there's not immediate distress, we're good and I don't worry about it. 

But you're right, Megora -- if there's any sign of bloat at all, they should not be exercising in any way. With Daisy, her bloat was so immediate and so severe, she couldn't walk, let alone exercise, so her stomach didn't have a chance to twist. She was just home from ACL surgery anyway, maybe that was to our benefit that she wasn't exactly raring to go.


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

I read the question wrong...I have not had a pet get bloat and we feed with bowls on the floor.

There was an article in a Golden Retriever publication about raised bowls contributing to bloat. IMO, it's like SIDS, no one REALLY knows the cause and is grasping at straws with the dos & don'ts.


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## gillsmithy (Dec 2, 2007)

All ours have eaten from bowls on the floor. One case of bloat which the vet attributed to dog jumping into back of car soon after eating. We now insist on one hour of "quiet time" after food. No more problems.


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## Kerplunk105 (Jul 3, 2011)

All have water from a raised bowl. Tegan&Zipper eat from bowls on the floor. Bliss has a raised food bowl. Never (knock on wood) had any issues with bloat.


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## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

I do not have any experience with a dog with bloat. 

My 4 year old has had raised bowls since 6 months old and I have had no problems. I have read the debate on raised vs raised and I agree with others that no one knows for sure. He gets fed twice a day and I have him rest for about an hour after before he gets back to activity. I watch how much he drinks right after strenuous activity since I have read this can contribute to bloat and is a consistent concern in studies. I also have the signs of bloat handy so I know the signs...


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

need more with bloat experience to vote!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

There's actually evidence that raised bowls CAUSE bloat. I don't use them. My dogs eat in crates currently, with bowls on the floor and buckets of water clipped to the sides of the crate.

I don't consider Goldens a high bloat risk breed anyway, nor racing bred Greyhounds (I don't keep show bred Greys which do have some risk). Whippets never get bloat. Borzoi are a bloat breed, but I feel strongly that nervous, shy, or weak temperaments and first degree relatives with bloat are the biggest factors in a dog getting bloat, and neither of my Borzoi have either of those risk factors. I just don't really worry about bloat, though I certainly hope it never happens to any of my dogs. 

JMO


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

When Beau bloated he had not been eating from a raised bowl or not even been eating. He was a slow eater. His was caused by stress. He had been at the vet all day gettng tests done for his seizures, came home and drank a bunch of water and started bloating. I rushed him back to the vet and he had the surgery because his stomach had started twisting. 

I did alot of reading about in the days after his surgery and found alot of different information. Some studies say raised bowls can increase bloat,some say it can decrease bloat. To me the biggest factor is your dogs eating or drinking habits. How fast they eat and the amount of air they take in while doing it. If they are a fast eater they are more likely to take in more air which is a factor in bloat. And when a dog is stressed they will take in alot of air drinking or eating. 

This article by the Great Dane lady says it better. And if you read alot of the great dane forums most of them feed from elevated bowls. Purdue Bloat Study | GREATDANELADY.COM


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I too read the question wrong, I answered bowls on the floor, but I have never experienced bloat.

My past dogs had raised bowls ( at that time they thought it prevented bloat ), and we never had bloat.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

cubbysan said:


> I too read the question wrong, I answered bowls on the floor, but I have never experienced bloat.


Ditto. Oops, my bad. I wasn't given the question first, just the poll. Sorry. Since I voted I'll say that before I had Goldens, I bred and showed German Shepherds a very bloat prone breed. Never dealt with bloat always have fed with bowls on the ground.

My heart goes out to each and everyone who had to go through this with their precious pups. Here's hoping that this and the other threads that have come up recently, will help to educate everyone on GRF so that it won't take any more lives of the dogs we love.


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## magiclover (Apr 22, 2008)

Sorry, I saw the poll first before the question and voted on using raised bowls. We actually started using raised bowls when Magic was about 8 because it seemed more comfortable for her. Jazz has always eaten her food on the floor and drank from the raised bowl. So far we have not had any bloat incidents. I do restrict activity before and after meals and monitor water consumption.


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## animallover (Jul 18, 2010)

This is confusing. I thought they bowls needed to be raised.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I apologize for not stating in the poll that it is for people who have had a dog with bloat.
I think it is undecided.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

No bloat thank goodness so I didn't participate in the poll. We use Kongs to feed Toby--so I guess he slightly elevates it to eat it, but by only inches.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

My dog had food induced bloat, but not the gas or the torsion. In his case, he had knocked the lid off his food storage container and helped himself to about 10 meals worth and his stomach was bloated as a result. So since it wasn't gas bloat, maybe mine doesn't count. 
Anyway, I had been elevating his bowls until that happened (but the food container he overate from was on the floor), now I keep bowls on the floor (and the food container where he can't get to it).


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Bloat*

In my opinion there are probably many causes of bloat. Our dogs eat from bowls on the floor and drink from raised bowls.

We have had two Male Samoyeds that got bloat at around the age of 10 years old. One had been outside for quite awhile laying in the grass on a hot day and when we brought the dogs in we fed them and then we took for a short walk. On the walk Gizmo started to try to throw up and poop at same time. We looked at his gurms, they were very pale. We rushed him to E Vet-they did surgery and tacked his stomach. Gizmo survived for about 9 months and then we had to put him to sleep for cancer. Our Snobear got bloat, Ken had been brushing him up on a table for hour and a half, I fed the dogs and we were watching TV-Snobear jumped off the couch and looked like he was frozen in place-then started the pacing, laid down and was trying to throw up-looked at his gums and we rushed him to the Evet. Had same surgery and we ended up having to put him to sleep in 4 months because of hemangiosarcoma.


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

Thanks to a post by Penny & Maggie's Mom in another thread today about bloat (http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...cussion/100235-oh-boy-case-bloat-surgery.html) , here's an updated Purdue study on the causes: http://crittersitextra.com/pettips/NEW_Purdue_Bloat_Study.pdf.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Karen519 said:


> In my opinion there are probably many causes of bloat. Our dogs eat from bowls on the floor and drink from raised bowls.
> 
> We have had two Male Samoyeds that got bloat at around the age of 10 years old. One had been outside for quite awhile laying in the grass on a hot day and when we brought the dogs in we fed them and then we took for a short walk. On the walk Gizmo started to try to throw up and poop at same time. We looked at his gurms, they were very pale. We rushed him to E Vet-they did surgery and tacked his stomach. Gizmo survived for about 9 months and then we had to put him to sleep for cancer. Our Snobear got bloat, Ken had been brushing him up on a table for hour and a half, I fed the dogs and we were watching TV-Snobear jumped off the couch and looked like he was frozen in place-then started the pacing, laid down and was trying to throw up-looked at his gums and we rushed him to the Evet. Had same surgery and we ended up having to put him to sleep in 4 months because of hemangiosarcoma.



Wow Karen, that almost makes me wonder if bloat is any kind of symptom of cancer too.


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## cory (Aug 23, 2010)

Wow, I specifically had gone out and bought raised bowls for Dakota as I thought that was supposed to reduce the risk of bloat for her. I just switched her dishes to the floor. Thanks for the information.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

This collie site has linked several studies on bloat. Spellbound Collies - Home of our Rough Collies


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> This collie site has linked several studies on bloat. Spellbound Collies - Home of our Rough Collies


Very intesting. Thanks Betty.

I found this a bit off putting. I would have thought moistening the food would reduce, not increase the chance of bloat, though the fat content makes sense. I feel uncomfortably bloated after a fatty meal too.

_The study confirmed previous reports of increased risks of GDV associated with increasing age, having a first-degree relative with GDV, and having a raised food bowl. New significant findings included a 2.7-fold (or 170%) increased risk of GDV in dogs that consumed dry foods containing fat among the first four ingredients. A significant increase in bloat has been seen with dry food mixed with water. A singificant DECREASE in bloat was seen when a dog was fed home-cooked human grade foods. The study showed that dry food remains in the dog's stomach for up to 72 hours. Home cooked diets are digested faster and are generally out of the stomach within 4 hours of feeding. This greatly reduced the incident of bloat.

The risk of GDV was increased 4.2-fold (or 320%) in dogs that consumed dry foods containing citric acid that were also moistened prior to feeding by owners. Dry foods containing a rendered meat meal with bone among the first four ingredients significantly GDV risk by 53.0%.

Approximately 30% of all cases of GDV in this study could be attributed to consumption of dry foods containing fat among their first four ingredients, while 32% could be attributed to consumption of owner-moistened dry foods that also contained citric acid. These findings can be used by owners to reduce their dogs' risk of GDV. This manuscript has been accepted for publication in the Journal of the Animal Hospital Association.

Diet-Related Risk Factors for Gastric Dilatation-Volvulus in Dogs of High-Risk Breeds
_


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I think the key Paula is that they are saying that foods preserved with citric acid should not be moistened. However, I could have sworn that that had been retracted...... I tend to agree with the great dane lady that gut health is the most important thing.


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## golden_eclipse (Apr 1, 2011)

I did the same thing. Never had a dog bloat before, but have read many scientific reports studying bloat (as my dog's sibling died from bloat at only 2 yrs., she was female which is also surprising, since they are at lower risk than males) Bowls on the floor have a significantly lower risk for bloat. Also if one of your dog's siblings has bloated it has been proven your dog is at a much higher risk. If the food has citric acid, you should not add water to the kibble as this can increase the risk. Mixing in some wet food into your dog's diet decreases the risk for bloat. Heavy exercise before and after feeding should be avoided for at least an hour. These are all things I have read, although this issue has been studied a lot, there have been a lot of contradictions over different studies. So I would not be surprised if someone has read the opposite of what I have. Honestly I think increasing the number of meals is the best preventative solution, because if the dog only ingests a small amount of food at a time, it would be more difficult for the stomach to bloat. So I feed 3 small meals to my boy and make sure he is calm before and after eating. I also feed him out of a small bucket, not much larger than his snout in diameter, this prevents him from opening his mouth wide, thus limiting the amount of kibble he can get in one mouth full. It has seemed to increase the amount of time it takes him to eat, which I think is a good thing (less air swallowed.)


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## golden_eclipse (Apr 1, 2011)

to add, they have a very low-invasive procedure now to attach the stomach to the abdomen and this prevents bloat from being possible. Before recently this procedure was only done on dogs that have bloated before and it was very invasive. But now they can do it "laproscopically" sorry if that's not the right term. But if you think your dog is at risk and I believe a lot of great dane breeders endorse this. Its about the same as spaying or neutering your dog (as far as recovery.) I very much consider this procedure with my dog.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Used to feed in bowls on the floor. Now we feed out of muffin tins and there is no activity for an hour after mealtime. It's in their kennels for a nap. That's the only time they are kenneled anymore, and it's only because I don't trust them not to play with each other.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Sally's Mom said:


> There are studies done that indicate raising food bowls contributes to bloat.... I have had 9 goldens and all have eaten on the floor. No bloat...


I remember reading a series of articles on bloat a year or two ago, and I actually saw studies (all survey-based) that showed directly contradictory associations with raised bowls. One showed a statistically significant correlation between raised bowls and bloat, and the other showed it between bowls on the floor and bloat. 

I remember washing my hands of the whole thing and thinking "bowl height probably has nothing to do with it."

I remember similarly contradictory associations with wet and dry food.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I agree with you, Brian. I think it's the stress factor.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

tippykayak said:


> I remember reading a series of articles on bloat a year or two ago, and I actually saw studies (all survey-based) that showed directly contradictory associations with raised bowls. One showed a statistically significant correlation between raised bowls and bloat, and the other showed it between bowls on the floor and bloat.
> 
> I remember washing my hands of the whole thing and thinking "bowl height probably has nothing to do with it."
> 
> I remember similarly contradictory associations with wet and dry food.


I ahve read these as well... 

more recently I read a study from purdue that talks about chicken fat in the first four ingredients of the dog food having an impact and raising the risk of bloat.... 

I have been doing alot of research on bloat having an IW and from what I have read and folks I have talked to it seems to run in lines....we have been noticing this in flat coats as well... that some lines seem to have a greater tendency to bloat when exposed to things like increased stress etc. other lines don't seem to have a problem

and precautions can be taken...I know many wolfhound folks do not let their dogs romp for 3 hours after meals and I know that many IW people keep gas-x strips available at all times... 

I have also heard that this accupressure point is very successful in relieving the gas... that leads to bloat...

Accupressure Point for Bloat


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## dexter0125 (Mar 20, 2011)

Whoops. I didn't read the question properly. I have my bowls raised. If I don't he'll gobble his food and choke. Not sure what the difference is there...but it makes a difference. Luckily no bloat.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Kind of like the saying that life results in death no matter what we do.
We all try to do everything to keep our golden loves with us as long as possible, despite what life hands out.


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## GRTigger (Jan 16, 2010)

I use raised bowls for all my dogs.
a picture of my golden and my husband.. 









we also use newspaper for the mat because I'm too lazy to clean the food mat. newspapers, I just throw it out when it's time to throw out.


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