# Golden Retriever Breeder Help - Ontario, Canada



## autopilot (Oct 14, 2016)

Hi,

I am new to this forum (today .
I know that this is a hot-topic, but I am looking for a good breeder and am getting very confused in my search. 

I live near Oakville and am willing to travel to find an honest/reputable breeder.

Online I found a few breeders, but I don't see many reviews of them - Down to Earth Goldens, Sunkozi, and Shuke's Champagne Goldens.

Does anyone have any opinion on these (or other) breeders.

Thanks in advance for all of your help.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Down to Earth- Bruce (stud dog): OFA pagehttp://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1639480#animal and you can see that his dam did not pass hips and two half sibs on his sire's side did not pass hips. 
bred to Blaze-http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1575215#animal and you can see that her eyes are out of date and her sire has no hip/elbow clearances, Blaze also has an offspring w failing elbows and has a half sib w failing elbows on sire side. Her dam has no OFA clearances. I'd skip that breeding. 
bred to Abby- Orthopedic Foundation for Animals her eyes are out of date also, and her dam has no OFA clearances. She has two half sibs on the sire side w failing elbows and one on the dam side w failing elbows. ED is very painful. I would skip this one too, though while she is OFA excellent, it feels like there are holes too big to overlook.
Sebastian
bred to Daisy- who has no hip/elbow clearances. She is not old enough to breed per the CoE. I can't find his reg name on the site so I can't look up his clearances.
Lego
bred to Dixi Orthopedic Foundation for Animals. you can see her dam did not get her OFA elbow clearance. I can't find his registered name on the site. 
It seems like this breeder is giving it a try at doing a good job, they seem to exhibit some and they seem to mostly have clearances, but 4 litters this fall is a lot of puppies to do a good job by, and breeding before a bitch is two is not a good idea.
I'll try to find time to look at the others later on this evening- or maybe someone else will do it!!


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## Breiwynn (Sep 22, 2016)

Hi there!

I have been in contact to Down to Earth and personally wasn't impressed. You can send me a PM if you wish to know more about my experience.

I know if Sunkozi but only of their Rottweilers, so I'm not much of help there.

I'm going through Fort Knox Goldens in Hanover, ON. Their site is outdated however they are still breeding. They have two litters planned for the end of the year. Her dogs are in the OFA database and K9 Data site. Kathleen has been a dream to work with, very honest and helpful with helping me pick a litter that would suit my needs.

Wishing you the best of luck!


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## Laurie (Sep 20, 2009)

You can also try Luchan/Prettyriver Goldens and Northsyde Goldens.


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## autopilot (Oct 14, 2016)

Wow. Thank you for all of your help-you guys are great! Feeling a bit overwhelmed just going through websites. Still have so much to learn ..


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Shuke's-
I'm a bit confused by their site. Firstly they say that all their dogs have their clearances but Rain has a weird eye clearance on k9data as if it were done by Dr Keller of OFA, and none of the others have eye clearances listed on OFA. Also, their cardiac clearances are inadequate as they are not cardiologist issued but pet vet issued. 
Plus, there is always the thing that no litter parentage is listed! 'mom to 31 puppies' obviously means over her lifetime but I don't see where they have litter info listed on the site.

Sunkozi- wow- this fall: a Rottie litter, and 4 Golden litters. 
Oakley to Shiver- h's missing eye clearance on OFA.
She's missing eyes and did not pass elbows.
Mojo to DeeDee- Both are missing eyes on OFA but otherwise everything on this litter appears to be done correctly.
No time this AM to do the other two Golden litters. But Sunkozi looks like the best of the 3 you listed to me- just be careful on which breeding you go with,


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## autopilot (Oct 14, 2016)

Thank you for doing all of that research for me. I am starting to realize how little I know about this process ! 

When I look at the database, if the line is blank, should I assume the dog failed that test or is there another reason it may be left out (no test done, paperwork not filled out, dog not old enough for test yet, etc)?

Thanks again !


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

autopilot said:


> Thank you for doing all of that research for me. I am starting to realize how little I know about this process !
> 
> When I look at the database, if the line is blank, should I assume the dog failed that test or is there another reason it may be left out (no test done, paperwork not filled out, dog not old enough for test yet, etc)?
> 
> Thanks again !


There is so much to learn and it is not easy. 
The difficulty increases because there are too many poor quality breeders who know what they should be doing and know the right "talk" to mislead buyers who are not informed. They are more than happy to profit from the lack of knowledge and have no qualms telling half truths, or out right lies because most buyers trust them as the "expert". Regardless of who you buy from, always verify any claims, especially health. 

So it would be ideal if everything was listed on OFA and I am of the opinion that if you are paying top dollar for a puppy submitting tests is something I would expect. 

Their are some old time breeders who for one reason or another do not send in Heart or Eyes. They should be able to provide the hard copy exam report. I personally have couple of concerns with this and I will share why. 1. The forms are not all that easy to understand if your not already familiar with them. 2. I have seen unscrupulous breeders fake, forge and alter the forms. If it is posted on OFA, there is a one for one match as OFA receives the "research" copy from the vet and they can compare that to the "owner" submission for recording form. 3. And this is me being picky, it is not accurate to call these forms certifications because OFA has not issued the certificate with the number. 4. This is me again, It does not cost much money and helps puppy buyers and future breeders.

So the quick and dirty is:

No eyes listed=ask for a hard copy and review it.
No heart listed=ask for a hard copy and review it making sure the vet who signed is a Cardiologist.
No hip listed= 3 possibilities. 
1. Dog failed because it has dysplasia (if there is an elbow and no hip this is likely the case and what I will personally believe)
2. Dog was not tested 
3. Dog was evaluated through an alternate system like PennHIP. For dogs in the us this is acceptable as long as it was done after 24 months of age and is publicly verifiable. PennHIP maintains no database but OFA will record them fo a small fee. Not very common.
No elbow=2 possibilities 
1. The dog failed because it has dysplasia. If you see OFA hips and no elbows this is what happened.
2. The dog was not tested. 

Prelims and vet letters are not health certifications.

Here is an infographic that might help.


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## autopilot (Oct 14, 2016)

Thank you so much !

This is such a great forum. I've already learned so much in 2 days. Such a helpful group.


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## autopilot (Oct 14, 2016)

And you are absolutely correct. It Would be very easy for an unscrupulous breeder to fool a new prospective owner if they wanted to. 

Thanks for helping me filter through some of the talk.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Eye exams in particular are easy to alter. 
I personally want to see it on OFA since it has been verified to be the same as the one the vet who did the exam sent in.
In the end, the cost to send to OFA is so cheap, there is no good reason not to send them in. 

And I too agree- if there are hips and no elbows, elbows were failed, and vice versa. No one does one without the other. There is also no way to have hip/elbow clearance from OFA that is not listed on OFA. They post all passing evaluations.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

For additional help understanding what you are seeing I am going to post some annotated screen shots. First is a dog with the core four complete certifications (hips,elbows, eyes and heart) plus the additional DNA tests.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Then my pet girl who has certification issues.


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## autopilot (Oct 14, 2016)

Thank you all so much. You have really opened my eyes as to how to research each litter.

One (hopefully) last question - how far back in the family tree is it advisable to look at the clearances. Is looking at the sire/dam enough, or is there a recommendation to how many generations back you should look?

Thanks Again !


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

A depth of clearances is important, as a set of parents who have their clearances but whose own parents/grandparents do not is still passing on genes from the dogs without clearances and whether those dogs had good or bad genes for hips, say, is not something you'd see from one offspring passing a clearance. Grandparents have about a 25 % influence. I like to see at least 5 generations.


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## alphadude (Jan 15, 2010)

Can't speak to the certification issues as I am not that knowledgeable. 

I put a deposit on a pup from a litter due shortly from Ambertrail Golden Retrievers in Ontario. They supposedly produce high energy, high drive field retrievers which is exactly what I am looking for.

I'd also be interested in opinions of anybody knowledgeable that looks at their breeding program, clearances, etc. 

Not looking to hijack the thread so feel free to PM me.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Push was an amazing dog, he had a son in Chattanooga I got to see run several times. But he is (in your puppy pedigree due Jan) both grandsire and great grandsire to the puppies- I don't find that particularly worrisome as long as his history is trouble free and I don't know that. Maybe someone else will know if he's considered a safe dog to build COI on. He was a lovely boy, that much I am sure of! Your puppy is going to need a big job to do!


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## Lindsey2111 (Sep 5, 2016)

We got our gorgeous girl from Aviemore Goldens (her name is Virginia Patten) located in Cobourg


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## alphadude (Jan 15, 2010)

Prism Goldens said:


> Push was an amazing dog, he had a son in Chattanooga I got to see run several times. But he is (in your puppy pedigree due Jan) both grandsire and great grandsire to the puppies- I don't find that particularly worrisome as long as his history is trouble free and I don't know that. Maybe someone else will know if he's considered a safe dog to build COI on. He was a lovely boy, that much I am sure of! Your puppy is going to need a big job to do!


I already have a job in mind for him. He has a really huge set of paw prints to try and fill.


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## Classiboy (May 4, 2018)

Breiwynn said:


> Hi there!
> 
> I have been in contact to Down to Earth and personally wasn't impressed. You can send me a PM if you wish to know more about my experience.
> 
> ...


Hi Breiwynn - I am planning to get a puppy from Fort Knox, I am reaching you out to understand your overall experience with Kathleen and did you end up buying a pup from her? 
Your pup would have been around 2 years now and I would like to understand the health and temperament of the pup. Hope you are satisfied with the pup/ dog. I would like to hear from you, if you have any recommendations for me. Thanks


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