# Canidae?



## pwrstrk02 (Aug 11, 2010)

Ive been using canidae for around four years now. When I started using it, it was at the top of the list for good holistic dog foods. Ive been on this site for a little over a month, and I don't hear anyone refer this food to anyone. It's always Fromm. I also never hear anyone advise enova. Currently I feed the canidae in the A.M. and feed a holistic prepackaged raw in the P.M. about four days a week. In life you live and learn. After my first dog got out of the yard and got ran over, I learned to keep my dog put up. After my next dog got cancer, I learned the evils of major dog food companies, and yearlies, and went holistic. After my next dog had to be put to sleep a month ago from hip dysplasia, I've been learning on supplements. So my question.... Why doesn't anyone on here feed canidae? Has it changed for the worse since I started. I want the best for my little girl, and would like to improve her diet if canidae is no longer an advised diet. 
We thank you in advance. 
Randy and Abbie.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

If your girl is doing well on Canidae, that's great. I know a number of people here had real GI problems with their dogs several years ago when Canidae changed their formulas and didn't let anyone know. They've gone on to use another food. For me, I choose otherwise because it is a Diamond manufactured food. For many, they don't have an issue with that. Kudos to you for wanting to stay abreast of keeping your girl healthy. You'll get alot of info and opinions here.. Bottom line, use what your girl does best on...... if she is thriving with a good coat, lots of energy, clean ears, and you feel comfortable with the company, go for it.


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## firedancer722 (Apr 12, 2010)

I agree... if your girl is doing great on Canidae, then there's no reason to change! I actually fed my Charlie Canidae when I first got him because I felt like it was great food for a great price. However, Charlie's digestive tract just never really agreed with the food. He had rather large and mushy poops for sooo long before I finally changed foods. Now, his poops are great. I think Canidae is a fine food if your dog is doing well on it.  Probably the reason a lot of people here aren't much talking about it is because it's manufactured by Diamond, which some don't care for. But, there are TONS of foods that are made by Diamond... I've never tried Fromm because Charlie's doing great on his food now, but I wouldn't hesitate to try it if I needed to.  

Good luck! 
Candace


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## JDandBigAm (Aug 25, 2008)

I feed my 2 year old Candidae too. He does fine on it and I don't see a reason to change. To me Candidae is holding up as a good wholesome food.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I fed Canidae and loved it. Unfortunately, after losing my job, I had to switch to a less expensive food-Diamond Naturals. I still recommend Canidae but have to say that my dogs are doing well on the Diamond also. Stools are not quite as nice on the Diamond but they are still good.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Canidae is a great food, I certainly wouldn't change it if it is working for you. My parent's fed Canidae until Casey's megaesophagus required a change in diet to wet only.


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## Augustus McCrae's Mom (Aug 14, 2007)

I fed Gus Canidae until they switched the formula a couple years ago...man it gave him terrible gas! But until then, he did well on it. My only complaint was that it was very difficult to find around here. 

That picture of you and Abbie is so sweet!


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## SylviaB (Jul 5, 2008)

Tundra ate Canidae until we moved to central Louisiana a year ago and it's not sold around here. He always did great on it. We switched to Nutro Ultra Holistic and he does fine on it.


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## jimla (Oct 9, 2008)

I feed Canidae ALS grain-free to our two. It has a moderate protein level and a reasonable price. Elliot has not had a seizure since we switched to grain-free a year ago and he does not require medication.


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## Griffyn'sMom (Mar 22, 2007)

Griff eats Canidae Chicken & Rice because it works for him. I chose it after reading many posts from different Golden forums. 

If I ever change it will probably be to Purina Pro Plan Chicken & Rice just because that's the puppy food he was on and his breeder as well as another breeder I know use it. 

Longevity is a combination of herditary traits and plain old good luck. Go figure.. I never thought my first golden would live to be 17 but he did and he ate kibble, table scraps and well water. (I still think it's the well water!)


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## mygunner (Feb 4, 2010)

I disagree, I don't feel that Canidae is up to my standards. I used to feed it and loved it but when they changed things in the formula it got me wondering. My dogs did not have trouble with the new formula but I heard from my pet food providers that others were having problems. I have two stores in my area that sold canidae and they discontinued selling it due to the take over and ingredient change. I like Orijen, Acana, and Fromm. These are the three foods I rotate. I want the best for my Goldens also and at the moment I feel these foods are the best.


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## Blondie (Oct 10, 2009)

I had Maggie on Innova until the buy out by P & G. I felt it was time to change with all of the unknows for the future of products manufactured by the former Natura Foods. Innova was a good food and I felt Fromm has been a lateral move. Maggie does great on Fromm four star duck and sweet potatoe.


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## damita (Jun 4, 2009)

I have been feeding Canidae for over 5 years (grain free for this last 8 months) and I have to say I have NO complaints whatsover. Do I wish they did their own manufacturing - yes but IMO it is a great food at a VERY reasonable price (especially when you own multiple dogs. I love the moderate protein and fat levels, my dogs have great coats, great gunk free ears, LOVE to eat it and are all around healthy. Would I like to feed Orijen? Maybe - but at over the double the price for a smaller bag I simply can't afford that with 4 large dogs...


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

pwrstrk02 said:


> After my next dog got cancer, I learned the evils of major dog food companies, and yearlies, and went holistic.


Dog food doesn't cause cancer, regardless of which company you use. It's something the boutique companies are perfectly happy to have their customers believe, but there's no basis in any research that grains, byproducts, or any of the other ingredients that are in some foods but not in others have any relationship to cancer.


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## Griffyn'sMom (Mar 22, 2007)

I agree - I feel you're more prone to giving your dog cancer by treating your lawn with weed and feed and letting your dog run on a lawn that uses chemicals (golf courses, parks, etc.) than feeding commercial dog food.

Remember that even if your dog isn't eating the grass, certain chemicals can be absorbed through the pads of their feet. (Not to mention they come home and lick their feet)


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I fed Candidae for about a year. When Penny went in for her yearly checkup I was stunned to find out she had gained 18 pounds. When I checked the # of calories in the food I was shocked. It was almost twice per cup as what she had been eating.

She is now eating the weight management formula of Premium Edge Lamb and Rice. This is the food she was on before and did very well. I switched to Candidae because it was touted (at that time) as a better food.

Your Golden is doing well, that's the bottom line for you.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

BTW, the picture of you and Abby is absolutely adorable!


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## pride-and-joy (Aug 11, 2010)

Years ago I fed Canidae (all life stages kibble) to my Rotts and I absolutely loved the results. They had perfect ears, eyes, and skin. Occasionally I'd switch brands and try to go cheaper. Almost immediately the brown ear goop would return. Also, Canidae produced the least amout of poop out of any kibble I've ever used, to date.

If it was available in my neighborhood, I'd use it now. But, I've found Chicken Soup For the Dog Lover's Soul (lite for Bella, regular for Fred) at my local Horse Feed and Seed and it's working great for the current K9 kids.


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

tippykayak said:


> Dog food doesn't cause cancer, regardless of which company you use. It's something the boutique companies are perfectly happy to have their customers believe, but there's no basis in any research that grains, byproducts, or any of the other ingredients that are in some foods but not in others have any relationship to cancer.


That's EXACTLY what they want you to believe

http://www.preventcancer.com/about/epstein.htm

http://www.preventcancer.com/press/releases/march23_01.htm

http://www.preventcancer.com/consumers/


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

T&T said:


> That's EXACTLY what they want you to believe
> 
> http://www.preventcancer.com/about/epstein.htm
> 
> ...


Nothing that you've posted has anything to do with dog food causing cancer, nor any indication that one dog food is more likely than any other to be contaminated with carcinogens. All of what you've posted has to do with the wealth of chemicals we're all immersed in every day because of our contact with plastics and plant material that's been treated with pesticides (not to mention all the other industrial chemicals used in our technology).

Now, I think we absolutely need to increase testing on potentially carcinogenic chemicals in plastics, pesticides, and electronics, and we need better accountability on the companies that use them, but I don't think that buying brand A is more dangerous than buying brand B when it comes to dog food. There's no reason to think that Kirkland or Fromm or Iams or Natura are more or less likely to have hormones in the meat or pesticides used in the grain that's in the food or in the food of the meat source.

And even if you buy organic dog food (which only has to be 95% organic by weight in order to carry the USDA "Organic" label), nobody has been able to show any decrease in cancer rates or increase in longevity among those who try to eat more organic food than traditional food, so even that may not help.


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## pwrstrk02 (Aug 11, 2010)

all im going to say is, do research on bad dog food. they render dead and dieing animals, including dogs. some of these animals have ?sodiumphenibarbitol (liquid death). this liquid death does not get burned off in the rendering prosess. so your dog gets regular small dossses of it. also the cancer ridden animals that they render, the rotted animals that they render, and the diseased animals that they render. how can you say that that isnt bad for your dog? and the bigger portion af the food is filler, where is the good in that? wild dogs dont go and get an ear of corn or a bucket of wheat and eat it before they hunt there dinner so they dont have to eat as much. why are you so focused on saying that big dog food companies arent bad? my research shows different.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

pwrstrk02 said:


> all im going to say is, do research on bad dog food. they render dead and dieing animals, including dogs. some of these animals have ?sodiumphenibarbitol (liquid death). this liquid death does not get burned off in the rendering prosess. so your dog gets regular small dossses of it. also the cancer ridden animals that they render, the rotted animals that they render, and the diseased animals that they render. how can you say that that isnt bad for your dog? and the bigger portion af the food is filler, where is the good in that? wild dogs dont go and get an ear of corn or a bucket of wheat and eat it before they hunt there dinner so they dont have to eat as much. why are you so focused on saying that big dog food companies arent bad? my research shows different.


It is illegal to use dead dogs and call the meat chicken. It's also illegal to use the meat of diseased animals in animal feed. I don't know if it's illegal to use dog meat from healthy dogs in "meat by-product meal," but I imagine it is. I might avoid foods with that, just to be sure.

If a company is breaking the law, by all means post the proof. That would be a bad company and one we should avoid. In the absence of anything but unsubstantiated claims about euthanized dogs being included in foods that say "chicken" on them, I'm a bit skeptical. The fact that a company is large or is owned by a large company does not automatically mean it is breaking the law. By the same token, a small company may break the law just as or more easily than a big company.

Also, there's no basis in fact to call wheat or corn "filler." They contain nutrients and calories that the dog's system can access. All-meat foods (which is what wolves might eat) can make dogs sick. In fact, I know of no company that makes an all-meat food that's safe for puppies, notwithstanding the fact that wild puppies eat only meat (and whatever roughage they might find in a prey animal's digestive tract).

The domesticated dog has been following humans and eating their diet (and their waste) for tens of millennia. A dog's system is not designed for a diet identical to that of a wild dog. Nor is it designed for a diet identical to a gray wolf (their closest wild relative). These diets that contain moderate amounts of grains are well researched and are quite healthy. I (and many, many others) have had several dogs who absolutely thrived on diets with moderate amounts of corn, sorghum, or wheat. That wouldn't seem to be possible if those grains were really undigestible or so unhealthy.

I've done plenty of research on bad dog food, and I don't feed it to my dogs. A lot of what I've found online is based on pseudo-science, poor assumptions, and horror stories. I don't know what your research is, but I'd be curious to examine your source work.


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## pwrstrk02 (Aug 11, 2010)

Tippykayak, I appreciate your approach on the disagreement. Thanks for not being hateful or rude about any of your comments. I like a good debate. When one of my dogs passed, it was from an auto immune disorder from her yearlies. She either had cancer, or a tumer on her lungs that she had under control. But after her shots, it allowed for whatever it was to get out of control. At any rate, I did all the research that I thought I could. I never read one good thing in my search for best foods to feed my dog, that had anything good to say about " big brand" dog foods. As far as hard evidence, no I don't have any, but as far as what I've read, they do put euthanized animals in dog food. Dog food companies are not legally required to list all ingredients in their product, so you wouldn't read " dead dogs" in the list of ingredients. There are hundreds of articles on why NOT to feed big brand, but I'm hard pressed to find one on why TO feed it, except for the dog food company itself.


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## pwrstrk02 (Aug 11, 2010)

Case in point, I found this within 30 seconds of my search.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

pwrstrk02 said:


> At any rate, I did all the research that I thought I could. I never read one good thing in my search for best foods to feed my dog, that had anything good to say about " big brand" dog foods.


I can't speak for all big brands, but many of them have lots of feeding studies to point to in which dogs have thrived on the food as well a long, positive track record with breeders and competitors who use their foods.



pwrstrk02 said:


> As far as hard evidence, no I don't have any, but as far as what I've read, they do put euthanized animals in dog food. Dog food companies are not legally required to list all ingredients in their product, so you wouldn't read " dead dogs" in the list of ingredients. There are hundreds of articles on why NOT to feed big brand, but I'm hard pressed to find one on why TO feed it, except for the dog food company itself.


Without hard evidence, I really wouldn't put stock in it. I don't believe it's legal for a dog food company to put diseased meat in the food, whether they put it on the bag or not. Now, I think you might be in a good position to argue that we need better enforcement of existing food laws and regulations (for both animal food and for people food), but that doesn't tell you that a smaller company would be better than a larger. 

Most of the horror stories I hear about the big brands turn out to be nonsense, with the notable exception of the melamine recalls. The melamine contamination really did kill a bunch of dogs. However, Blue Buffalo foods are currently under recall and scrutiny for causing problems in a proportionally similar number of dogs, and they're widely considered a "premium" boutique food.

Food can become contaminated, but that's not necessarily a company's fault. A big company that takes appropriate steps up front and recalls quickly and publicly is better in my book than a small company that isn't as proactive.

I think a lot of this comes from our desire to do the best by our dogs. If we feel that there's even a chance that a less expensive food is inferior, we naturally want to buy the more expensive food. I feel that urge all the time. However, whenever I examine the bare facts, logic simply doesn't support that urge, so I don't follow it.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

pwrstrk02 said:


> Case in point, I found this within 30 seconds of my search.


That's a really famous clip in this debate. I don't like "animal by-product meal" for that reason. However, newer regulations do more clearly outlaw the use of diseased animal meat, largely due to reactions to the spread of BSE (Mad Cow).

I guess if you have "animal by-product" or "meat" on the package, you could theoretically have any healthy animal in there. I think the number of dogs used would be pretty small, since most shelters don't seem to make a habit of selling their dead dogs to rendering plants. It's distasteful, so I would want to avoid it anyway.

If I see "chicken byproduct meal" on a package, that's AOK by me. In some ways, it's a better ingredient than chicken meat because it has a wider variety of nutrients.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I feed one of the "big brand" foods, and have fed it to several generations. My dogs are extremely healthy - and other than routine care ie vaccinations, clearances, etc, vet visits are rare. I also enjoy beautiful coats, great stamina, and excellent longevity - not just old age, but _healthy _geriatrics. 
Look at dogs from the past - most all of the top dogs were fed KenLBiskit. They were healthy and sound. 
Much of the "research" and information put out has been done by extremely biased, smaller food companies pushing their own "natural"/"holistic"/"higher quality" diets. And most of them haven't been around long enough for there to be much information available on dogs fed their diets long term. Additionally, many of them are regularly "playing" with their formulas and lack consistency. 
I'll stick with what has worked for me, and countless other professionals, for years, is readily available nearly ANYwhere, and has been consistent for 20+ years.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I am amused by people who are mortified by "by products" in dog foods, yet think nothing of paying good money for pigs ears, cows hooves, bull penises, and deer antlers to feed as chews and treats.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

On Canidae - I used to feed my border collies Innova when I first got my first one, Zeke. We lived in the San Fernando Valley in Southern California and had to order several bags at a time because it was so hard to find. Because it was such a pain to find, I switched them to Canidae and they did great on it. Some friends who had herding dogs turned me onto Evo, and that's what they have all had ever since.
I recently switched to Orijen because Dru is almost 12 and Billy is almost 9 and I wanted to see how they did on the Orijen senior. It was not a good change. Their coat looks awful. This is their first all Orijen bag (I was mixing the Evo and the Orijen to transition them) and I'm switching them back to Evo. As a matter of fact, I just ordered two Evo bags.
Max, my puppy, is on Purina Pro Plan Chichen and Rice Puppy - his breeder really likes it and that's what he was weaned on. I will eventually change him over to Innova puppy and much, much later to Evo.

I have not had one single problem with my dogs and the food they get. Zeke died at the age of 14, Cassie at 12 1/2.

Prior to Zeke my dogs before that have been on Iams, California Natural or similar foods. Back in the very early days, circa late 70s, I fed whatever was in the supermarket to my much adored Heinz 57s. Didn't really know any better. However, NEVER anything like Old Roy!!!!!


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

I use Canidae and Luke (13 to 14 weeks) seems to be doing very well on it. I had him on a mixture of Evo Red Meat Small bites and Chicken Soup for the Puppy's Soul at first. He didn't like the Chicken Soup at all. He just didn't care for the taste. He loved the Evo a lot. Eventually, however, he was having too much gastrointestinal stress and I think the Evo was a bit much for him at such a young age. I may try it when he's older.

He loves his Canidae ALS though and appears to be doing well on it.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

diane0905 said:


> I use Canidae and Luke (13 to 14 weeks) seems to be doing very well on it. I had him on a mixture of Evo Red Meat Small bites and Chicken Soup for the Puppy's Soul at first. He didn't like the Chicken Soup at all. He just didn't care for the taste. He loved the Evo a lot. Eventually, however, he was having too much gastrointestinal stress and I think the Evo was a bit much for him at such a young age. I may try it when he's older.
> 
> He loves his Canidae ALS though and appears to be doing well on it.


 
EVO is not meant for young pups due to the high calciumhosphorous ratio. It could cause growth/joint issues.


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

tippykayak said:


> It is illegal to use dead dogs and call the meat chicken. It's also illegal to use the meat of diseased animals in animal feed. I don't know if it's illegal to use dog meat from healthy dogs in "meat by-product meal," but I imagine it is. I might avoid foods with that, just to be sure... If a company is breaking the law, by all means post the proof. That would be a bad company and one we should avoid. In the absence of anything but unsubstantiated claims about euthanized dogs being included in foods that say "chicken" on them, I'm a bit skeptical... The fact that a company is large or is owned by a large company does not automatically mean it is breaking the law. By the same token, a small company may break the law just as or more easily than a big company.
> ...
> I've done plenty of research on bad dog food, and I don't feed it to my dogs. A lot of what I've found online is based on pseudo-science, poor assumptions, and horror stories. I don't know what your research is, but I'd be curious to examine your source work.


Are these the laws you're referring to ?

http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/articles/disturbing-(and-illegal)-fda-compliance-policies.html


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

T&T said:


> Are these the laws you're referring to ?
> 
> http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/articles/disturbing-(and-illegal)-fda-compliance-policies.html


Yup! Even according to the page you quoted, diseased meat is illegal, and even in the heavily edited FDA regulations _they_ quote, diseased meat is clearly illegal, even in the guidelines that allow for disabled or dying animals.

There are no exceptions for diseased meat or euthanized animals, unless you read the FDA language inaccurately, as the people at "truth about pet food" so love to do.

Now, there's a BIG point to be raised about ENFORCEMENT of existing laws. If a company decides to break the law, the ability of the FDA or the USDA to catch that company and enforce those rules is hampered by political efforts (largely but not solely from Republicans) to gut the government's ability to regulate businesses. In the constant trumpeting about government waste, enforcement budgets can get cut unwisely. God forbid we really allow the government to properly regulate a large business.

However, the regulations as they're written, even when they're selectively quoted by the "truth about pet food" people, clearly outlaw diseased meat.


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