# New rules from the CDC! All imported dogs MUST have Rabies Vacc!!



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

well that's dumb. There's no way I'd want MY puppy getting a rabies vac. at 12 weeks, so in reality people will have to wait longer than that.


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

Loisiana said:


> well that's dumb. There's no way I'd want MY puppy getting a rabies vac. at 12 weeks, so in reality people will have to wait longer than that.


I personally wouldn't want to vaccinate my pup at 12 weeks either for Rabies... this just makes things 100x more complicated for breeders and puppy owners...


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Here's the reason, rescue groups are importing vast amounts of dogs from foreign countries. Apparently it's ok to have puppy mills as long as they are in foreign countries. Back in 2006, the US imported 199,000 dogs from Mexico. I imagine the number has grown exponentially. The CDC has inspected shipments and found the dogs far younger than the rescue groups were claiming. The fear is that they bring a very deadly disease into the US. I'll look for links on the CDC website. For the information I've mentioned above. By requiring the rescue groups only import dogs vaccinated, it will force the rescue groups to bring in less baby puppies.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

It would be nice to know what the reasoning is for revising the interpretation of the rules. Where are the vast numbers of Rabid 8 and 9 week old puppies? 

This is one of those revisions that reeks of HSUS and/or Peta involvement. Block importation of puppies from the most common foreign sources.


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

Ridiculous. I can't imagine life without my little Canadian Pearly. 

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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 24, 2012)

Germany requires rabies shots as well. I brought Lacie back with me at 11 weeks and I had to get a special import permit due to her not having the rabies shot. When she got her shots, I had to take her passport to the local Rathaus (courthouse) to show proof of her rabies shot. Anyway, Greece, Spain and Italy have a huge stray dog population and rescues are constantly bringing the puppies in to Germany. But I've noticed the puppies are older and it's because of when they can give the rabies shot. My friends who have gotten some of these rescues, obviously they love their babies, but they did miss them being baby babies. I guess it would be too expensive to get an import permit for each of the puppies...they really are bringing in that many puppies.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Well that's really unfortunate.. I was interested in a Canadian breeder for my next pup..


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Wow. That'll impact the rescue efforts down here in San Diego. There are specific rescues that ONLY rescue dogs they bring across the border. And there seem to be many people who cross back and forth to vaccinate their animals in TJ cause it's cheaper. I wonder if this will affect that. 


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

If I find anymore information, I'll post it here. I can certainly understand why they would think to do this, but it just seems to make a lot more problems.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

Lacie's mom: 
International travel as in going to Germany has always required that a dog or cat have a rabies vaccination - that has never changed. I don't think there are many people that will bring a puppy at age 11 weeks into the country, since it is such a long flight and who really wants a pup that age sitting in cargo all that time? 

Try flying into Britain even with an older dog with rabies vaccination - almost impossible and quarantine requirements.

I can understand why this came into law. And actually, talking to several vets - a lot are switching to puppies being able to get rabies vaccinations starting at 12 weeks old. My vet wanted Ben to get vaccinated for rabies at 12 weeks old but I declined and waited till he was the proper age.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

*Rabies-Free Countries and Political Units* 
Unvaccinated dogs may be imported without proof of rabies vaccination if they have spent the previous 6 months in a country that is free of rabies, as listed below...

*Countries and political units considered rabies-free for the importation of dogs into the United States*:

*Africa	
*Cape Verde, Mauritius, Réunion, São Tomé and Príncipe, Seychelles

*Americas* 
North: Bermuda, Saint Pierre and Miquelon
Caribbean: Antigua and Barbuda, Aruba, The Bahamas, Barbados, Cayman Islands, Dominica, Guadeloupe, Jamaica, Martinique, Montserrat, Netherlands Antilles, Saint Kitts (Saint Christopher) and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Martin, Saint Vincent and Grenadines, Turks and Caicos, Virgin Islands (UK and US)

*Asia and the Middle East* 
Hong Kong, Japan, Kuwait, Malaysia (Sabah), Qatar, Singapore, United Arab Emirates

*Europe2* 
Albania, Austria, Belgium, Corsica, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Gibraltar, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Isle of Man, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, Netherlands, Norway (except Svalbard), Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain (except Ceuta and Melilla), Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom

*Oceania3* 
Australia3, Cook Islands, Fiji, French Polynesia, Guam, Hawaii, Kiribati, Micronesia, New Caledonia, New Zealand, Northern Mariana Islands, Palau, Papua New Guinea, Samoa, Vanuatu


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## Lacie's Mom (Oct 24, 2012)

cgriffin said:


> Lacie's mom:
> International travel as in going to Germany has always required that a dog or cat have a rabies vaccination - that has never changed. I don't think there are many people that will bring a puppy at age 11 weeks into the country, since it is such a long flight and who really wants a pup that age sitting in cargo all that time?
> 
> Try flying into Britain even with an older dog with rabies vaccination - almost impossible and quarantine requirements.
> ...


Yes, I know they've always had this requirement. But it was early this morning when I wrote this and I guess what I was trying to say and totally didn't was that I was able to get an special import permit that allowed me to bring her in before she got her rabies shot so maybe getting something like that will be an option.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Vhuynh2 said:


> Well that's really unfortunate.. I was interested in a Canadian breeder for my next pup..


It certainly will make it harder to buy a pup from Canada and bring him or her to the States. I hope Canada doesn't follow suit and change its rules. I was able to bring Shala home from Wisconsin with a health certificate confirming vaccines - but she was not required to have rabies vaccine because she was under 12 weeks. 

Now, I note the CDC does say it can be contacted for special cases, etc. I would certainly contact them far in advance if I were in the US and looking at a litter in Canada. I would hope that exceptions would be made. I imagine if the end goal is to curb the mass importation of rescues who have not been vaccinated against rabies, they would make exceptions for individual puppy purchases. I would hope anyway...


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

We are living in the twilight zone.

New US Rules for Importing Dogs


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## atelierk (Jul 26, 2014)

I'm currently in the throes of this problem myself. I've been on a waiting list for a puppy since last November, and I planned to drive to Canada and get her 5 days after the new CDC guidelines take effect. The breeder is scrambling to find out if this applies to *all* puppies or just wholesalers' truckload shipments. Until now "confinement agreements" covered the situation for individual imports as pets, but the wholesalers have, of course, screwed it up for everyone because they have consistently violated the terms of the agreement. :crossfing


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

You are in a better position to make the request as you are in the US. Contact the customs folks and tell them the situation. You are planning to go to Canada and pick up only YOUR puppy personally and bring it home. They will be much more likely to grant a confinement agreement in your case (They work for you). If the Canadian Breeder contacts them about a litter, they're far more likely to say no.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

atelierk said:


> I'm currently in the throes of this problem myself. I've been on a waiting list for a puppy since last November, and I planned to drive to Canada and get her 5 days after the new CDC guidelines take effect. The breeder is scrambling to find out if this applies to *all* puppies or just wholesalers' truckload shipments. Until now "confinement agreements" covered the situation for individual imports as pets, but the wholesalers have, of course, screwed it up for everyone because they have consistently violated the terms of the agreement. :crossfing


Can you plan to pick her up a few days early? I wouldn't even want to risk it at this point. A few days missed with her mum and litter won't be as bad as having to confine her for 30 days when you get her home.


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

When we picked up Pearl we had to sign the confinement agreement. We got fully searched because we had some oranges. FYI I never heard a peep about it after that day.

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## atelierk (Jul 26, 2014)

Sweet Girl said:


> Can you plan to pick her up a few days early? I wouldn't even want to risk it at this point. A few days missed with her mum and litter won't be as bad as having to confine her for 30 days when you get her home.


That's what we're planning to do. The breeder made several calls to the CDC, and got somewhat conflicting messages. As he went higher on the food chain though, it became clear that the ultimate goal of this edict is to have no puppy enter the US under 4 months of age. There may be *some* flexibility in the short term, but we don't want to count on it. CDC apparently has no idea (or doesn't care) that there's a lot more to raising a healthy puppy besides rabies.

The CDC page on these new rules shows both 8/9 and 8/11 as the effective dates, but the official, legal date this takes effect is Monday, Aug. 11 - that's the date on the CDC document as printed in the US Federal Register. Apparently once something appears in the Fed. Register, that makes it the legal version. I will have a copy with me, just in case.

Seems pretty clear that the AKC and CKC will have to get involved.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

atelierk said:


> That's what we're planning to do. The breeder made several calls to the CDC, and got somewhat conflicting messages. As he went higher on the food chain though, it became clear that the ultimate goal of this edict is to have no puppy enter the US under 4 months of age. There may be *some* flexibility in the short term, but we don't want to count on it. CDC apparently has no idea (or doesn't care) that there's a lot more to raising a healthy puppy besides rabies.
> 
> The CDC page on these new rules shows both 8/9 and 8/11 as the effective dates, but the official, legal date this takes effect is Monday, Aug. 11 - that's the date on the CDC document as printed in the US Federal Register. Apparently once something appears in the Fed. Register, that makes it the legal version. I will have a copy with me, just in case.
> 
> Seems pretty clear that the AKC and CKC will have to get involved.


So glad you are going to be able to get your pup a little early. This new regulation makes me so mad and sad at the same time. It was clearly made by people who have no clue that it is best to bring puppies home at about 8 weeks, or that people buy puppies from other countries solely as individual pets. There should be some allowance made for people in the US buying from a Canadian (or other) breeder - some kind of signed contract - that the pup will be vaccinated and proof provided at 12 weeks. I don't see why that couldn't be done. If this rule applied in Canada, I would never have gotten my Shala, which makes my heart ache. I feel so bad for anyone in the US who was ever planning to get a dog from a Canadian or international breeder in the future.

I also really hope the AKC and CKC get involved.


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## samralf (Aug 11, 2012)

Are there any updates? I was hoping to get a Kyon pup this winter but, according to that link on page 2 that sends you to the lab forum, it ain't looking good.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

samralf said:


> Are there any updates? I was hoping to get a Kyon pup this winter but, according to that link on page 2 that sends you to the lab forum, it ain't looking good.


I would try calling the CKC and AKC and see if they are doing anything to try to get exceptions made, or a change to the rules, or anything else. It seems like such a drastic move. It's clearly aimed at mass imports of puppies - but they seem to have forgotten that maybe someone living in the US wants to buy a puppy from a reputable Canadian breeder.


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## atelierk (Jul 26, 2014)

Well, I picked up my girl in Canada last Sunday - August 10, the day before the new CDC regs officially took effect - and had absolutely no problems. They asked me *many* more questions (any guns? alcohol? how long will you be in Canada? etc., etc.) at Canadian customs than they did at US. I had to wait more than a half hour at US customs, but when I finally got to the booth, he only asked me a couple of questions and sent me on my way.

My girl is a Kyon pup and I know they're trying to figure out what this new CDC "guidance" really means for their future sales to US buyers. They do have a buyer who will be driving up soon to pick up their pup - the buyer is aware of of the new regs, and is willing to turn around and drive back to Kyon if necessary. I also understand that Air Canada is currently in the process of raising the age of pups that can be shipped as a result of the CDC regs.

FWIW, as I type this, US Customs still says the rabies requirement does not apply to puppies under 3 months of age.


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## samralf (Aug 11, 2012)

atelierk said:


> Well, I picked up my girl in Canada last Sunday - August 10, the day before the new CDC regs officially took effect - and had absolutely no problems. They asked me *many* more questions (any guns? alcohol? how long will you be in Canada? etc., etc.) at Canadian customs than they did at US. I had to wait more than a half hour at US customs, but when I finally got to the booth, he only asked me a couple of questions and sent me on my way.
> 
> My girl is a Kyon pup and I know they're trying to figure out what this new CDC "guidance" really means for their future sales to US buyers. They do have a buyer who will be driving up soon to pick up their pup - the buyer is aware of of the new regs, and is willing to turn around and drive back to Kyon if necessary. I also understand that Air Canada is currently in the process of raising the age of pups that can be shipped as a result of the CDC regs.
> 
> FWIW, as I type this, US Customs still says the rabies requirement does not apply to puppies under 3 months of age.


Thanks for the info. I guess we'll know more soon. :/


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

The utter stupidity of this revision to the interpretation of the rules is mind boggling.

The U.S. and Canada share litterally thousands of miles of unsecured border. Rabies exists in both countries, and the many species of wildlife that are capable of spreading it, cross between the two nations at will and the CDC says nothing about it. But try to bring an 8 week old puppy across the border and the world might come to an end. 

We employ waaaaaaayyy too many knuckleheads in government.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

This was posted on the Canadian Kennel Club website recently. Happy to see it is engaged and trying to get exemption for responsible breeders:

Update: New U.S. Guidelines re: Importing Dogs from Rabies-Positive Countries | CKC

Update: New U.S. Guidelines re: Importing Dogs from Rabies-Positive Countries
Since learning of new U.S. guidelines regarding the importation of puppies from rabies-positive countries, effective August 11, 2014, as set out by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the CKC has reached out to various organizations for further comment and information to best support our position and to pursue exceptions to these new directives that direly affect our member breeders and their puppies.

The guidelines call for stricter enforcement of CDC’s Dog Importation Regulations requiring that dogs be fully immunized against rabies before being imported into the U.S. The rabies vaccination must be administered no earlier than 12 weeks of age of the dog and at least 30 days before arrival at a U.S. port of entry. Therefore, the youngest that a puppy may be imported to the U.S. is 4 months of age.

CKC understands the tremendous impact that the new terms of the dog confinement agreement will have on our responsible member breeders and continues to confer with organizations such as the AKC, Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, Canadian Food Inspection Agency and the CVMA to voice our position, to best represent our responsible member breeders and their healthy, well-socialized puppies and ultimately seek exemption to the newly enforced regulations. Further updates will be provided as we work to find a resolution.


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

Excellent. It is so silly, Canada and the US share so much, it would be nice to keep a friendly border in all aspects. It makes me think no wonder europe went to the EU, can you imagine being so geographically limited in such small nations? We are both very fortunate, US and CA being so big.


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## samralf (Aug 11, 2012)

Well I was told today that Kyon isn't selling to the US anymore. So I have to start my puppy search again.


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## kgwillison (Aug 2, 2014)

atelierk said:


> Well, I picked up my girl in Canada last Sunday - August 10, the day before the new CDC regs officially took effect - and had absolutely no problems. They asked me *many* more questions (any guns? alcohol? how long will you be in Canada? etc., etc.) at Canadian customs than they did at US. I had to wait more than a half hour at US customs, but when I finally got to the booth, he only asked me a couple of questions and sent me on my way.
> 
> My girl is a Kyon pup and I know they're trying to figure out what this new CDC "guidance" really means for their future sales to US buyers. They do have a buyer who will be driving up soon to pick up their pup - the buyer is aware of of the new regs, and is willing to turn around and drive back to Kyon if necessary. I also understand that Air Canada is currently in the process of raising the age of pups that can be shipped as a result of the CDC regs.
> 
> FWIW, as I type this, US Customs still says the rabies requirement does not apply to puppies under 3 months of age.


 atelierk,

Hello. Is your new pup a Mick and Mocha pup? If so, we have one of its brothers, Charley (officially Kyon's Golden Ticket). I drove up to Mono, Ont. from Northern Virginia after Sean called me about the CDC change. I arrived the Wednesday before the rule took effect.

When I arrived at the border and was asked if I was bringing anything back I said I got a puppy. The guard said, "that's great! Do you have all of the required vaccinations?" I assured him I did and he waived me through.

I really hope this isn't going to be strictly enforced. I also hope it is not true that Kyon won't sell pups into the U.S. anymore. 

By the way, if you are interested, I created a Facebook page for Kyon's "Chocolate" litter. I encourage you to add photos and stories about your new pup if it is part of this litter. You can access the site via this link:
www.facebook.com/groups/kyonschocolate

I'd love to compare notes on the pups. 

-Kirk Willison


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

Awesome! Love that they let you through with no hassles.


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## atelierk (Jul 26, 2014)

kgwillison said:


> atelierk,
> 
> Hello. Is your new pup a Mick and Mocha pup? If so, we have one of its brothers, Charley (officially Kyon's Golden Ticket). I drove up to Mono, Ont. from Northern Virginia after Sean called me about the CDC change. I arrived the Wednesday before the rule took effect.
> 
> ...


My girl, Robin (aka Kyon's Round Robin) is from the Lucas x Peggy Sue "World Cup" (soccer) litter, born 6/12. Sean was nice enough to meet me in St. Catharines - about 8 miles from the border - on Sunday morning. I find the sort of freeway driving in the Hamilton/Mississauga/Toronto area to be incredibly nerve-wracking. Good on you for making that long drive from Virginia!


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## atelierk (Jul 26, 2014)

*The plot thickens...*

This morning, I went to the US Customs page that discusses "Pets - Dogs, Rabies Vaccines" to see if it had changed since the new CDC rule. Sure enough, it has been updated as of 8/19/14 BUT - it is word-for-word identical to the previous version (which I had printed out before picking up my puppy) dated 4/11/14. *It still says the rabies requirement does not apply to puppies less than 3 months of age. *

My guess is that the CDC's "guidance" is just that: guidance. And US Customs reserves the right to enforce it as it sees fit, and that in the case of individual puppy buyers, they don't see any reason to make changes. 

If you are planning on going to Canada to pick up a puppy, you might want to call US Customs and ask. You can call the office at the border crossing you intend to use and speak directly with a customs officer. Although it was before the new "guidance" took effect, that's what I did and I was assured that I'd have no problems entering the US with my puppy.


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## atelierk (Jul 26, 2014)

samralf said:


> Well I was told today that Kyon isn't selling to the US anymore. So I have to start my puppy search again.


Did you speak to Sean or Karin at Kyon directly? (Last I knew, it was iffy but not certain that they'd no longer be selling to the US.) If not, you might also ask whether they can refer you to any American breeders who have recently sent a girl to be bred to one of their Kyon stud dogs. Just a thought.


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## atelierk (Jul 26, 2014)

There's a concurrent thread re: the CDC regs over at Retrievertraining.net, and this post is _very_ interesting. Looks like if you persist and throw the CDC's own regulations right back at them, chances are good you can get approved for a confinement agreement. Still ya gotta wonder, what with Ebola and God knows what else out there, if the CDC really has their priorities straight.


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## samralf (Aug 11, 2012)

atelierk said:


> Did you speak to Sean or Karin at Kyon directly? (Last I knew, it was iffy but not certain that they'd no longer be selling to the US.) If not, you might also ask whether they can refer you to any American breeders who have recently sent a girl to be bred to one of their Kyon stud dogs. Just a thought.


Yep, I was on their list for a litter due around now. It was iffy for awhile but the last email I got from Sean was that they weren't sure if people getting puppies soon were going to get one and that people who put deposits down were getting their money back and that they were no longer selling to the us because everyone is getting denied.


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## kgwillison (Aug 2, 2014)

atelierk said:


> This morning, I went to the US Customs page that discusses "Pets - Dogs, Rabies Vaccines" to see if it had changed since the new CDC rule. Sure enough, it has been updated as of 8/19/14 BUT - it is word-for-word identical to the previous version (which I had printed out before picking up my puppy) dated 4/11/14. *It still says the rabies requirement does not apply to puppies less than 3 months of age. *
> 
> My guess is that the CDC's "guidance" is just that: guidance. And US Customs reserves the right to enforce it as it sees fit, and that in the case of individual puppy buyers, they don't see any reason to make changes.
> 
> If you are planning on going to Canada to pick up a puppy, you might want to call US Customs and ask. You can call the office at the border crossing you intend to use and speak directly with a customs officer. Although it was before the new "guidance" took effect, that's what I did and I was assured that I'd have no problems entering the US with my puppy.


 
That is (hopefully) good news as I would be sad to think I could no longer import from Kyon in the future (with a 2 1/4 and a 10-week old pup currently, it likely would be a long time before getting another puppy, but still ....)

Sean at Kyon did say that while they are not advertising it, they (currently) don't plan to sell into the US. He knows that one could probably sneak a puppy over the border but he legally can't suggest or encourage that. Perhaps one should send him the updated US Customs Service page referenced above and he might relax that policy by just adding a caveat emptor. 

I know that if I were to drive across the border again I would have mapped out all 3 places to cross into NY just in case!

It was good of Sean to travel to St. Catherine's. I loved being able to go to Kyon's site and Sean was nice enough to let me explore the property. Knowing Charley (our new pup) would be too young to go far, he lent me Ollie so I would have a dog to walk. The property is beautiful. We met Sean's grandfather who provided a tour for me and introduced me to his Rosie, who coincidentally is the sister of the 2 1/4-year old we have at home. The place is so nice I'd return with my two dogs in a heartbeat some summer or fall weekend just so they could play there.


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## atelierk (Jul 26, 2014)

Sadly, US Customs has yet again updated its "Pets - Dogs, Rabies vaccines" page that I'd referenced earlier, and it's now a boiler-plate copy of the CDC party line: no unvaccinated puppies under 4 months of age. Period. This update is dated 8/25/14. Today. 

Apparently there are no "real" dog people working at the CDC who have any understanding of why a US citizen would want to go all the way to Canada to buy a quality dog or why waiting to get a puppy at 4 months is a really bad idea for the puppy.


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## atelierk (Jul 26, 2014)

kgwillison said:


> That is (hopefully) good news as I would be sad to think I could no longer import from Kyon in the future (with a 2 1/4 and a 10-week old pup currently, it likely would be a long time before getting another puppy, but still ....)
> 
> Sean at Kyon did say that while they are not advertising it, they (currently) don't plan to sell into the US. He knows that one could probably sneak a puppy over the border but he legally can't suggest or encourage that. Perhaps one should send him the updated US Customs Service page referenced above and he might relax that policy by just adding a caveat emptor.
> 
> ...


I was there many years ago, and yes, it's beautiful. I met a number of her dogs, and in fact bred my girl to Shea. (I subsequently found out that I don't have what it takes to be a breeder - I have a terrible time placing puppies.) But that's how I knew that, when the time came, I'd be buying my puppy from Karin.

The stupidity and the "dragnet" nature of this rule just defies comprehension. Other Federal agencies seem able to make the distinction between wholesalers and "rescue" groups bringing dogs into the country in bulk vs. the individual puppy buyer who's willing to pay a considerable sum of money for a quality dog from a caring Canadian breeder. Particularly when the two countries share a 5000 mile border freely crossed by all kinds of wild animals, rabid and healthy, and have the same incidences of rabies already.

Right now, the only way to get another Kyon puppy would be plan a two month vacation in Canada, pick up your puppy at 8 or 9 weeks, travel around, back to Kyon to vaccinate at 12 weeks, see the sights until he/she is 16 weeks old, then go home. Unfortunately, few people have the time or resources to do that, but at least the pup would get proper socialization and bonding with the new owner.


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## kgwillison (Aug 2, 2014)

atelierk said:


> I was there many years ago, and yes, it's beautiful. I met a number of her dogs, and in fact bred my girl to Shea. (I subsequently found out that I don't have what it takes to be a breeder - I have a terrible time placing puppies.) But that's how I knew that, when the time came, I'd be buying my puppy from Karin.
> 
> The stupidity and the "dragnet" nature of this rule just defies comprehension. Other Federal agencies seem able to make the distinction between wholesalers and "rescue" groups bringing dogs into the country in bulk vs. the individual puppy buyer who's willing to pay a considerable sum of money for a quality dog from a caring Canadian breeder. Particularly when the two countries share a 5000 mile border freely crossed by all kinds of wild animals, rabid and healthy, and have the same incidences of rabies already.
> 
> Right now, the only way to get another Kyon puppy would be plan a two month vacation in Canada, pick up your puppy at 8 or 9 weeks, travel around, back to Kyon to vaccinate at 12 weeks, see the sights until he/she is 16 weeks old, then go home. Unfortunately, few people have the time or resources to do that, but at least the pup would get proper socialization and bonding with the new owner.


Maybe American customers can persuade Kyon to open "Kyon South" just across the border! Breaks my heart to think I am looking at my last Kyon pup.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Yeah, and it really doesn't look like the CDC is budging. This is an update I got yesterday from the Canadian Kennel Club, and their efforts to have this rule waived for responsible Canadian breeders of healthy dogs who want to sell to US families. 

This is the response from the CDC. The CDC acknowledges that the confinement rules are in conflict with proper puppy socialization, but is like, yeah, so bring your pup home at 4 months old - and miss out on that amazing time in your puppy's life from 8 to 16 weeks old. So disappointing.

http://members.ckc.ca/en/portals/0/pdf/Resources/DrLanger_Response.pdf

Paragraphs of interest:

However, I want to ensure that you and the CKC membership are aware of the strict requirements to which importers of inadequately immunized dogs must agree before being permitted to import their dogs into the United States. *The confinement agreement requires the restriction of the animal to a building or other enclosure in isolation from other animals and from persons except for contact necessary for its care, or, if it is allowed out of such enclosure, muzzling the animal and keeping it on a leash. *_*Please note that CDC considers "contact necessary for [the dog’s] care" to be limited to feeding, watering, a short leashed and muzzled walk for the purpose of eliminating, and any medical care that the dog requires. *_Allowing contact between the dog and other animals, or other persons not directly involved in its care as defined above, during the period of confinement is a violation of the agreement.

As a veterinarian and a dog owner myself, *I know that these confinement requirements are far from ideal for raising a young puppy. Nonetheless, prospective importers of inadequately immunized dogs who are willing to comply with the confinement requirements are welcome to request approval of a confinement agreement by contacting CDC* at [email protected]. Each request is reviewed on a case-by-case basis in accordance with the factors listed in CDC’s Federal Register notice. 

I would be personally grateful to you and the CKC for any assistance that you can provide in helping to communicate to your members and the public the importance of rabies vaccination in protecting public health and the health of the dogs themselves. I would also appreciate any steps that your membership can take to assist potential importers of dogs into the United States in complying with the U.S. dog importation regulations, and particularly in educating potential importers about the confinement requirements for inadequately immunized dogs. *We are frequently contacted by potential importers citing the importance of socializing young puppies as the justification for importing puppies before they are adequately immunized against rabies. In many cases, these importers are not aware of the inherent conflict between proper socialization techniques and the confinement requirements. In light of the confinement requirements, your membership might consider whether it makes more sense for importation into the United States to be delayed until the puppies are adequately immunized against rabies, which can occur as early as 4 months of age. Such a delay would allow for proper socialization before the puppies are imported into the United States and **immediate integration of the imported puppies into their new families upon arrival at their final destinations. *


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## atelierk (Jul 26, 2014)

Why then isn't the CDC equally worried about the thousands of puppies whelped in the United States that are *also* not going to be adequately immunized against rabies until 4 months of age? Why aren't they requiring all American breeders - including puppy mills and pet shops - to keep their puppies isolated from nearly all human contact because of this supposed public health threat? Why is the perceived risk so much greater for a puppy born in Canada vs. one born in the US when both countries have identical incidences of rabies already?

It's just so illogical that it makes me wonder if there's more motivating this than just a concern for public health. It smacks of protectionism. In this announcement from the AKC concerning the new but similar USDA regulations, the following jumped out at me: "“We are very pleased about these new regulations,” said AKC CEO Dennis Sprung. “This is the culmination of years of effort by animal welfare groups such as the AKC and the National Animal Interest Alliance to protect the health of canine populations in the United States _*while supporting our excellent American breeders.*_” Just sayin'.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

atelierk said:


> Why then isn't the CDC equally worried about the thousands of puppies whelped in the United States that are *also* not going to be adequately immunized against rabies until 4 months of age? Why aren't they requiring all American breeders - including puppy mills and pet shops - to keep their puppies isolated from nearly all human contact because of this supposed public health threat? Why is the perceived risk so much greater for a puppy born in Canada vs. one born in the US when both countries have identical incidences of rabies already?
> 
> It's just so illogical that it makes me wonder if there's more motivating this than just a concern for public health. It smacks of protectionism. In this announcement from the AKC concerning the new but similar USDA regulations, the following jumped out at me: "“We are very pleased about these new regulations,” said AKC CEO Dennis Sprung. “This is the culmination of years of effort by animal welfare groups such as the AKC and the National Animal Interest Alliance to protect the health of canine populations in the United States _*while supporting our excellent American breeders.*_” Just sayin'.


You've got it, there must me an ulterior motive! Living in Missouri, excellent American breeders, mostly means commercial breeders in their eyes.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

atelierk said:


> Why then isn't the CDC equally worried about the thousands of puppies whelped in the United States that are *also* not going to be adequately immunized against rabies until 4 months of age? Why aren't they requiring all American breeders - including puppy mills and pet shops - to keep their puppies isolated from nearly all human contact because of this supposed public health threat? Why is the perceived risk so much greater for a puppy born in Canada vs. one born in the US when both countries have identical incidences of rabies already?
> 
> It's just so illogical that it makes me wonder if there's more motivating this than just a concern for public health. It smacks of protectionism. In this announcement from the AKC concerning the new but similar USDA regulations, the following jumped out at me: "“We are very pleased about these new regulations,” said AKC CEO Dennis Sprung. “This is the culmination of years of effort by animal welfare groups such as the AKC and the National Animal Interest Alliance to protect the health of canine populations in the United States _*while supporting our excellent American breeders.*_” Just sayin'.


It stuns me the utter lack of disregard the CDC is portraying around puppy socialization. The letter to the CKC basically was, yeah, we hear you about the concerns of puppy socialization, but... TOO BAD!! It really does seem to be saying, well, then you better buy your pup in the US. Because... was there really such a huge population of rabid dogs coming in from Canada? I don't know about every province, but I know Ontario hasn't had a case of rabies in years and years - possibly decades (but don't quote me on that). Rabies vaccination is as strict and as universally done here as in the US. It's all very strange.


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

It looks like the CKC is getting involved, and is asking for certain exemptions.

http://www.ckc.ca/getattachment/New...-around-Agreement-Gui/CKC_CDC_Letter.pdf.aspx


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## samralf (Aug 11, 2012)

I heard the cdc responded with basically a whoop de doo. I hope I'm wrong but that was the last update I got on the facebook group I'm following about all of this.


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## PrincessDaisy (Dec 20, 2011)

Considering all of the diseases being brought in by human immigrants (the enterovirus for example), legal and otherwise, to the U.S., this canine importation ban smacks of petty politics. Follow the money.


Max


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## kgwillison (Aug 2, 2014)

*CDC regs*

I am tempted to write to the CDC director on this and ask the question that I, too, wondered about: if rabies is a concern for dogs that are yet to be vaccinated, then why aren't ALL puppies confined for the first 4 months?


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## atelierk (Jul 26, 2014)

Dog trafficking in the name of rescue appears to be the motivation for the CDC's one-size-fits-all rabies policy: With Rescue Dogs In Demand, More Shelters Look Far Afield For Fido : NPR

Still, Canada is not Mexico, India or Taiwan. Not sure why that's so hard for them to grasp.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

The import ban with Canada is so incredibly stupid it is mind boggling. The two countries share thousands of miles of unsecured border with all kinds of wildlife walking back and forth at will. Most of those animals are capable of carrying Rabies. How is the CDC serving the public good by blocking the import of puppies that originate in Canada? 

Another glowing example of the lack of common sense in government.


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

kgwillison said:


> I am tempted to write to the CDC director on this and ask the question that I, too, wondered about: if rabies is a concern for dogs that are yet to be vaccinated, then why aren't ALL puppies confined for the first 4 months?


NOOOOO!!!!!!!! Please do not give them the idea!!!!!


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## kgwillison (Aug 2, 2014)

Has anyone successfully imported a Golden Retriever puppy, under the age of 4 months, since the CDC regulation was implemented in August 2014? (I got mine at 8 weeks just a few days before the new reg took effect.)

If anyone has successfully done so, would you provide a primer for those of us who eventually would like to do so again?

Thanks.


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