# Question for those who actively compete/train



## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

I've just started hunting class with my two boys Oliver and Bernie. Right now we're just in the classroom, but hopefully we'll be ready to head outside once the weather warms up. Bernie was vaccinated for Lyme disease, but I made the personal choice after talking with my breeder not to vaccinate Oliver. HOWEVER, that was before I decided to take up hunting/field with the boys. I live in CT where Lyme is pretty prevalent. The boys also don't get any topical flea/tick meds, just apple cider vinegar and garlic meatballs. I was just wondering what you all do for your tick/lyme protection. I'm going to take this up with my breeder and vet, but would love to hear from you guys as well.

Do you vaccinate for Lyme disease? (How often if you do). Please feel free to share why you made this decision.

Do you use flea/tick preventative? (Advantix/Frontline/etc)
or
Do you use a natural flea/tick preventative? If so what do you use?

Overall what has your experience been with lyme/ticks with your hunting dogs (possibly compared to dogs that you have had that didn't hunt)? Have you had them get Lyme (whether vaccinated or not?)?

Thank you for your replies!


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

I am not advising everyone to use natural flea and tick prevention methods, but I also do not use Frontline or Advantix on Molly. I use Earth Animal Yeast-Free Flea and Tick Internal Powder and apple cider vinegar. She has been on it since September and she has not gotten any fleas or tick bites. I am comfortable using natural methods because my vet told me tick borne diseases are rare in Seattle/Western Washington. He said we do have fleas, but no fleas here so far. *Knock on wood* In the summer, I may use Advantix since we do spend a lot of time outside in the woods and in fields and we will be traveling. I am just getting Molly started in field as well.

I can't give any advice about lepto, as we don't have that here either and the vets here don't give that vaccine.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Yes, all of my FT dogs are vaccinated for Lyme disease. I've had friends and friends' dogs that contracted Lyme disease and it's miserable. The dogs have been knocked out of competition for an entire FT season because of it, plus there can be some long-term joint damage caused by the disease. I know that there is concern about over-vaccinating, however the risks associated with that are, at least to me, lower than the risks associated with contracting the disease. 
Also, in the high-incidence months, I apply Frontline or Advantix.
For me, it's worth it.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

I vaccinate for Lyme and use Frontline on a monthly basis.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Ticks are not a big problem down here nor tick borne disease. We see the occasional dog tick and that's it. For fleas I use Comfortis, it is also off-label for ticks. Best of luck, this is definitely a regional thing!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

We have lots of tick borne diseases in this area. I do not vaccinate for Lyme, but I do use Vectra3D every 3 weeks. I do vaccinate for lepto.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

I also train and hunt and test in areas with known Lyme vectors. I do not vaccinate for Lyme, as ticks carry many other diseases in addition to Lyme, but I have my dogs tested every year. I have had friends dogs get Lyme, a puppy I bred got Lyme and she is still experiencing autoimmune issues from it, and friends have also had dogs pick up other TBDs. They are all now being more aggressive in the use of preventives. I also have a breeder friend who has been struggling with chronic Lyme for years now. She went undiagnosed for years before it was finally confirmed and she has had a huge fight to get appropriate treatment, and is now suffering devastating effects. She was a vital and active woman and now is frequently so ill she cannot leave home or eat properly. She actually had doctors suggesting there was nothing wrong with her and she was making it up.:[

I prefer to keep the little b***ards off me and my dogs entirely. I used to use FrontlinePlus but started to see less efficacy. I have switched to Advantix and since I started with it I have not taken a tick off my dogs. When we are hunting in really badly affected areas I use Bronco spray on their coats and one my clothing as an additional repellent. I am not keen on putting permethrin on me or them, but I am more worried about the long term impact of chronic Lyme (arthritic changes, Lyme nephritis, autoimmune issues,lethargy) and the devastating effects of some of the other diseases they carry. Around Long Point last summer you could actually see them landing on your clothes. It made my skin crawl.....

(Oh and Anney, when you are north for your annual training and test trip I would be using a preventive--we've pulled ticks off dogs in PA and upstate NY. WE figure Breeze's uncle got infected by a tick that got him at the Leatherstocking NAHRA test...)


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

We're in Connecticut. Even though we don't do field training we are in an area with woods & large natural areas. The ticks here are *really* bad. I've seen Zoe pick up 5 or 6 on her head just putting her nose down in the dried leaves along the side of the little road where we live. I've seen her pick up a tick as early as February when we had a warm spell and they're around until things freeze up in the late fall.

Many dogs and people here are Lyme positive. The disease is, I believe, named after Old Lyme, CT where it was first identified.

I've chosen not to vaccinate Zoe for Lymes but use Frontline Plus on her. Unfortunately it doesn't repel ticks but is supposed to kill them before they transmit the disease. Advantix is supposed to kill the ticks before they attach. Unfortunately Zoe is allergic to it. When ticks are active, I also do visual checks as well as hands all over the body and particularly the head and neck.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

That is too bad Zoe is allergic to the Advantix. I have had really good luck with it. Not a single attached tick since I started using it. Have you tried the Vectra3D that Barb is using? There is also apparently a new Frontline being released. Some friends are also using the tick collars but I really worry about my cat with them. I can keep him separated from the dogs while their Advantix is drying, but I cannot keep him away from them all the time.


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## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

I do tracking and field with my older golden. TDX tracking is through the worst areas of forest preserves here so he was exposed to a lot last year I vaccinated for Lepto on advice of the integrative vet. Since we're now doing VST and field training I'm sitting on the fence this year for the Lepto vaccine. The breeder of my 7.5 month old advises against the Lepto vaccine.

I do not vaccinate against Lyme. Although I do have a full tick panel run on my 5.5 year old due to the amount of ticks in the area we live twice a year. I use Frontline Plus in peak season about every 3 weeks and a natural natural spay (Flea the Scene that's for both Fleas and Ticks) when we're training. I went from taking off about a dozen ticks from him to none once I added the natural product.

You should also make sure that you use a product on yourself because you are at risk too. I was bitten by a tick and had Lyme disease in 2011 thanks to tracking.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I use Vectra 3d and the dogs are vaccinated for Lyme. I won't mess around.


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## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

Thank you all for your responses! Especially those pointing out I should protect myself as well, completely wasn't thinking about that. I know quite a few people who have had lyme and luckily they have made full recoveries. Everyone's brought up really great points and options. I have heard great things about advantix, so I'm thinking a combination of that during the peak season along with natural repellents will be my course of action. When it comes to ticks I truly believe the best protection is from repelling the bugs, not vaccination so I don't think I'll vaccinate for Lyme. My breeder, who lives in NY in a wooded area, doesn't recommend it and I trust her and her reasoning is sound. I just get nervous putting poison on my dogs' bodies, however I definitely do not want my poor boys to get Lyme disease.

What is a tick panel?


> I do not vaccinate against Lyme. Although I do have a full tick panel run on my 5.5 year old due to the amount of ticks in the area we live twice a year.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

Thanks for the mentions of Vectra 3d. I'm going to look into it.

My comment above was anecdotal but what I really wanted to say to the OP is: being in CT we're in possibly the worst location for Lyme carrying deer ticks. Lymes is very serious both for the dogs and humans . . . it isn't something to mess around with. I think it's best to inform yourself about the disease and it's carriers . . . be able to recognize the various types and stages of ticks, know possible signs of TBDs in dogs and people since prompt treatment is important, and discuss with your veterinarian what they suggest in terms of prevention. Like many other things, there are pros and cons and varying efficacy for the different means of prevention.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

The other thing you can get in the US that we cannot get in Canada is clothing that has repellent infused into it. I would not be wearing it day in and day out, but for the time I was out hiking or training in tick infested areas I would wear it if I could get it! So for now I spray my training/hunting clothes with a permethrin based spray during the active tick season. I do not wear shorts or short sleeve shirts when training, or testing in endemic areas, and I tuck my pantlegs into my socks. It is a real fashion statement.  But preferable to getting one of those nasties on me.


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## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

For me this is a really difficult decision. I know of the horrors of Lyme, luckily not from personal experience. At the same time I know of the horrors of flea/tick dips (almost lost my current 8 month old from a flea/tick dip) and vaccinations (lost a cat). Its really hard to figure out what the right balance is. I also know that something being "all natural" does *not *mean the same thing as *safe*. As TheZ's said I'll definitely be doing the following. 



> I think it's best to inform yourself about the disease and it's carriers . . . be able to recognize the various types and stages of ticks, know possible signs of TBDs in dogs and people since prompt treatment is important


I am currently looking for a new vet, as I do not trust the one I have now and do not like the way they treat their patients. Hopefully once I find a more trusted vet I will have a better idea of the course of action I'm going to take.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I usually go the all natural route for flea and tick preventative, but if I lived in CT I would NOT depend on that. Way too many dog's in that area dying from Lyme complications


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## Goldenbum (Oct 5, 2011)

*message from teacher*

we'll chat about this in class next week, but i'm a firm believer in the lymes vaccine. Yes, it's only 80% effective, but of my nine dogs only one ever got the disease. I usually, avoid topical flea and tick meds. I'd rather spend 20 minutes with a flea comb than put the stuff on my dogs.


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## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

@coaraugo

My vet does a Fastpanel PCR Canine Tick Borne Panel Profile. There are other diseases than Lyme a dog can get. It tests for (took this off test report, Anaplasma phagocytophilum, Anaplasma platys, Babesia canis, Babesia speciation (non- canis), Bartonella henselae, Bartonella vinsonii, Ehrlichia Canis, Ehrlichia spp,Mhemocanis/hematoparvu and
Neorickettsia ristic.


Symptoms can go undetected in dogs so testing is the best thing. She does twice yearly clinics where these and other tests are run and each time there are several dogs identified who have a TBD. Most vets in my area will prescribe doxycycline if a dog has been bitten by a tick in WI.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Another fairly common approach to this problem among field trialers who travel around the country is to give Doxy on a semi-annual basis ... no testing, just administration of the drug. It's WAY cheaper to give Doxy than to get the tick panel and then give Doxy. I have talked with a few vets about this manner of dealing with tickborne diseases and none spoke against it. 
Some of the dogs that are treated this way are worth more than the first house I bought!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

I am paranoid about Lyme since I live with it. I would have made a full recovery if for three months I wasn't told that I had viral meningitis and therefore did not get the treatment needed. I always wear long pants and socks in the woods. If I do not wear the taller boots I put the pants inside the socks and spray over the sock. I do not vaccinate for Lyme due t the many diseases they carry. I do Advantix and also do blood work. However, Lyme can be tricky and does not always show on blood tests, if in doubt I would repeat the test and do preventive antibiotic treatment.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Claudia M said:


> I am paranoid about Lyme since I live with it. I would have made a full recovery if for three months I wasn't told that I had viral meningitis and therefore did not get the treatment needed. I always wear long pants and socks in the woods. If I do not wear the taller boots I put the pants inside the socks and spray over the sock. I do not vaccinate for Lyme due t the many diseases they carry. I do Advantix and also do blood work. However, Lyme can be tricky and does not always show on blood tests, if in doubt I would repeat the test and do preventive antibiotic treatment.


I don't mess around at all. I duct tape my pants legs around my boot tops. I wear tan chino pants so I can spot the ticks. I spray myself often. Shirt gets tucked into pants.

The dog gets Lyme vaccine. I spray my 4Runner inside because ticks will get into the car and be there for days.

A friend lost his dog to Lyme disease. I believe she developed kidney problems from it.

As for Lepto, make sure that the correct vaccine is used. In my area, I must request that a certain Lepto vaccine be used because of the different kind of bacteria that causes it here, different from what's elsewhere.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Also, new use for duct tape. Someone wearing shorts walked into a group of baby ticks and had hundreds of them on her leg. She borrowed duct tape from me to capture them in the adhesive for removal from her skin.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Never thought about spraying the car. That is a very good idea. Mostly we go to the cabin and the wooded area near our house so we never actually get in the car after hiking. For us humans I keep over the counter antibiotics. I have not yet researched anything that I can give Rose for immediate antibiotic treatment if needed and away from home.


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