# Did we buy an agressive Golden?



## Roxannes_mom (Jan 6, 2009)

Hi, this is my first post. I love this forum and have found so much of the information useful. Our puppy is almost 12 weeks old, we have had her for 9 days. Unfortunatly she was not purchased from a reputable breeder. We got her at a pet store for Christmas, the pet store gave of limited breeder information. She was born in South Dakota, and we live in and purchased her in Florida. Why did she end up here? Our household consists of myself, hubby, and 4 cats. I have been wanting an golden retreiver for years, I had one growing up and she was 16 when she passed in 2004. She was the sweetest gentlest dog, and I always assumed that this was how all goldens were and the reason I convinced my husband to get a golden. Especially with the 4 cats, and we may be starting a family in the next few years. 

So here is my problem, she acts like an agressive breed a lot of the time. She played with my sisters dogs about a week ago who are very well trained, but she was viscous and was growling, biting, lunging, I could barely keep a hold of her. My sister says thats just how they play but I was not comfortable since she was so much smaller than her lab. Then about 3 days after that she started acting very agressive towards my cats, it started with just barking, but then she laid chase to my youngest cat, a 6 month old kitten. She jumped it and even managed to rip some hair out. Luckily we stopped her before things got bad. I adore my cats and have had the oldest 2 for 5 years. After that I watch them like a hawk, Ive tried introducing them and she doesnt fight them when theyre both being held, but then we will be sitting watching TV and bam, shas all crazed, chasing and growling. Im am so scared she will kill one of them. Today we had just came in from out 5am walk (no sleep in 9 days) and she was still on the leash, she lunged at the kitten again, growling like mad. 

Shes not really agressive with us...I dont think. But shes very "puppyish" She wont come, she only sits for treats, were starting puppy kindergarden in a week. She bites us, mostly mouthing but all the time. She does not like hugs, kisses, cuddles or anything like that. She mostly hangs by herself, and as soon as I try to pet her she starts mouthing, Ive tried the usual methods to get her to stop to no avail. But so far she has not broken the skin. On our walks shes very bad, she lays down and wont budge, tries to run off choking herself to the point of gagging, etc. And now shes started jumping at me, not like hug me jumping, but a foot off the ground jumping at me, she playes tug of war with the leash which I can not stop short of carrying her inside. She bites down on the leash and will not release her jaws, I try puting my fingers in her mouth, my sis said to push up on her teeth, but her jaws are clamped down hard. I try ignoring her and turning my back, she just run in circles around me with the leash. She is also like this with her toys, the soft ones have ripped while I try to get them out of her mouth, she plays fetch sorta, shell come back but everything is a tug of war game. 

Is this all normal golden behavior? I have been searching the internet for answers and have sadly stumbled apon a large number of reports and studies about how the golden breed is starting to become a more agressive breed as a result of poor breeding practices. We got her because we wanted a playful, loyal, affectionate dog, that would be good with the cats and children one day. 

I plan on discussing this with the vet today at her visit, I also plan on contacting a local breeder. The puppy store where we got her over charged, she was a wopping 1100$ which we were fine with since we really wanted a Golden for the Christmas and there were like none left anywhere. But I had no intention of spending that kind of money on an agressive dog. My husband and I have agreed that we will return her if we can not remedy this behavior. But I am hopeful and willing to put in all the time I need to if this is just "puppyhood." I love my cats too much to have one of them killed by her. I am also terrified when we go for walks because parents will let their children run up to her and pet her because shes a golden and theyre supposed to be sweet....what if she attacks someone?

I would greatly appreciate any assitance you guys can give me. Should I separate her from the cats completely, and for how long? Its their home too. How to I "bond" with her, I feel that she does not have any sort of emotional attatchment to me, and I thought all puppies wanted love and affection. Sorry for the long post, I needed to vent and and I wanted you to have all of the information.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Alot of puppy mill breeders and byb use brokers if they cant sell there pups. You can keep her on a leash in the house while learning she cant chase the cat. You also need to realize she is still young, she isnt going to know how to walk on a leash, Find a training class and take her to lessons.Do a search on here and you will find tons of helpful tips on puppies...walking on a leash, etc. As for playing if you heard my guys you would think they were killing each other.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

It's best to assume that a baby puppy is well-meaning but just doesnt understand your expectations for leash walking etc yet. Take her to an excellent obedience class, and have fun learning to train her with a clicker or in a positive framework. Make sure she is getting plenty of off leash exercise where she can tear around and be a puppy. I just have to ask, if she was 1100$, why not buy her from a responsible breeder who cares deeply and socializes puppies well? However, some of what youre saying sounds like normal puppy stuff. It will take her a while to be as good as your old golden bc right now she is just a tyke. As for kitty chasing, give the specific behavior a name- No Chase. Reinforce it firmly but without a drop of anger.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

This isn't going to be what you want to hear, but she's displaying very normal "pet store puppy" behavior.
She was taken from her littermates too young to have learned bite inhibition and gentle play. I'd suspect you're having a hard time with potty training, too, that's pretty typical with puppies from pet stores. 
It does NOT mean she's aggressive. It means she's displaying typical behavior for a puppy that hasn't learned that this type of behavior is not acceptable.
JMO, I think you can work her thru this. It will take a lot of time and patience, and of course working with a good trainer can make all the difference in the world. There are a lot of people on this forum who can give you good sound advice on how to deal with some of the issues you are having. 
As far as not being very affectionate, give her some time. Everything is so new to her, she can't be bothered with love and affection right now! She missed out on about 3 critical weeks of development with her littermates (during shipment and quarantine) and she's trying to make up for it now.
As far as the mouthing (of you), the most important thing it to always have available something that she is allowed to have. Whenever she tries to put a human part in her mouth, tell her NO very sternly, immediately give her something she is allowed to have, and then praise her for taking it. It's the only way they learn what's acceptable; you can't just tell them what isn't.
And...spend lots of time here! Browse the forum, you will find lots of people who are very knowledgeable and helpful, and you will find threads (try the puppy section) where others have dealt with the same issues.


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## SoGolden (Jul 17, 2008)

*Pet Store Pup*

Much of what you describe is typical puppy behavior. IMHO I would leave out the word aggressive at this age. There were times with Harry that I thought he was a terrible little dog--biting, jumping, grabbing my arm, wouldn't come to me, grabbing the leash, trying to push me over, etc. He did however love hugs and affection when we had a calm moment (which were rare). I never imagined he would outgrow this. But each and every day (he is 6 months now) he is becoming that wonderful Golden we all crave. It takes time. It takes patience. It takes knowledge and a committed owner. Unfortunately you have a petstore pup that is going to have some issues. Who knows how old she was when she left her litter (maybe too young to learn bite inhibition). Who knows if she has had another owner that did everything wrong. It's too late to look back. Time to get started. 
First - decide if you are in or out. You must be 100% committed to the work involved to turn this around. No one on this Forum got a perfect Golden handed to them. Ideally, you start with an excellently bred dog; they are not sold in pet stores. You can't beat good breeding; then, the rest of what you see is a direct reflection of what effort you put in.
Second - See the Vet. Rule out any health issues. She may be "mean" if she is being attacked by fleas, parasites, etc, or just doesn't feel well. A good bill of health is important before starting training.
Third - Resolve to keep your other vulnerable pets at a distance until she can be trusted around them. If the kitten cannot hold her own, don't leave them unsupervised. It isn't fair to either to let an incident happen.
Fourth - Get help. Find a trainer, reputable breeder, Vet, someone to evaluate your pup. Determine what you have on your hands. That will help your approach in growing her up Golden.
Fifth - Relax. Love her. Be kind to her. She deserves a better start in life than she was given. She needs you. And, please, do not ever buy from a petstore again... Read some of the other threads on here about puppy mills, and you won't.
Welcome to the Forum.:wave: I hope things improve with your pup. Remember to post pictures! We all love to see them.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Actually I think she just sounds like a fiesty puppy. Many puppies would bark at and play roughly with cats and other puppies. My Whippet and my Golden sound like killers playing in the yard! Especially the Whippet (a non aggressive therapy dog of top champion show lines who was bred by an outstanding top breeder). That doesn't necessarily mean they're aggressive.

Your pup DOES sound like a super active, intense girl, though- she'll need lots of exercise, attention, and mental stimulation. Hey, where in Florida are you? I'm in Florida too


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## Roxannes_mom (Jan 6, 2009)

Thank you all for your prompt responses. I promise you all that I will never go to a puppy store again. It really helps just to know that there are people out there to talk to. I live in the Tampa area btw :wave: I have all the time in the world to spend with her since Im not currently working, and I am perfectly willing to do whatever it takes so long as I know shes not pre-destined to be aggressive. As long as there's hope then Ill be OK. I plan on locking the cats in a room for a few days to allow Roxanne and myself to bond without their distraction. Theyll be find with it since theyre always trying to get in there anyways, and sleep 95% if the time. And introduce them one by one. I didnt realize that she would have been in quarantine and I feel horrible now. I thought 10 weeks old meant she maybe left the litter at 9 weeks. I guess I never really sat down and thought about what shes been though in her short time here so far. I will keep you all posted, were going for our second vet visit today and as long as we can surivive the waiting room, she went crazy the first time. 

Also would you reccomend PetSmarts Puppy Kindergarden or should I find another trainer?


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## Golden Leo (Dec 3, 2008)

I would say it's just a puppy behavior. All of my dogs like to "chase" anything that moves. They never hurt any animal (cats, dogs, birds,mice..) They jump around it, bark, play, chase but don't hurt. And you should see how they play to each other ( I have 3 goldens)! When people who didn't used on dogs come to my place they jump on chairs. My boy likes to "talk" when playing, girl likes to bark when playing and pup makes unidentified sounds. It looks like they're fighting and they'll kill each other. I also have a cat and she beahves like one of them- she hides and then waits till dog comes and then jumps on him and they play tag in garden-first I tought- poor cat, 3 dogs are chasing her and then she stoped and chased them.... It was incredibly funny. Don't put her away from cats- that way you will produce jelaousy and make cats more interesting to her- and you will get contraproduct. Take her in one hand (or your husband let hold her) and hold cat and calm them all down- let her sniff them, lick them- if cat feels uncomfortale she will leave. But YOU must show her to be gentle with cats. You can't say that a year old baby is agressive if he pulls cats tail- how would you teach baby not to pull cats tail? 
And that leash play is also normal. My pup loves that! And I mostly let him carry leash.. It is very desireable in show ring- I put part of leash in his mouth and he put his head up high and carrys it- and like that he looks much better than others in ring. And I encourage that. If I want him to give me the leash I give him piece of delicious treat and say "give" and he gives it- no force at all. Would you give something you like if you don't get something better in return? I have completley the same behaviour puppy at home ( he is bought from very, very reputable breeder) and I love his temper. You said she will do anything for treats- use that- that makes job of raising puppy much easier. You must understand that you bought living being - only YOU can make her a good or bad dog. 
From this what I read- she is very playful pup and works for treats- you can make her a great dog! Just give her time to understand what you want from her. Imagine how she feels- she lives with other race, other language, other customs, other bodylanguage. How is she supposed to know what to do?


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## emibean (May 10, 2005)

Hi...I got a puppy for Christmas,too!
She was raised in a home with kids and love but she still is "mouthy"and not sure of the leash all the time.
I "wear her" around the house meaning she is leashed to me at all times,except when I'm in the shower...then she's just outside the shower door.
One thing that I think is important.....don't let your puppy "get their way" Make sure whatever you are doing is YOUR idea.Like if she doesn't want to walk on the leash or pulls...stop and go the other way even if for one step then remove the leash.....they are just like kids(I have 5 human kind) give them an inch,they'll take a yard!!!!!I have also taken my puppy everywhere,though not around other feces ect cause she hasn't had all shots.....but I even took her into a ski lodge over the weekend.She LOVED all the attention.Today we are going to my daughter's preschool....she'll hear all kinds of sounds...buses,car horns etc......IMO everything helps.
Good luck....YOU are so lucky to live in Tampa...here in Michigan it's 10 degrees today!!!!!!


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

All good advice above. Just remember NO puppy comes pre-trained and that perfect Golden you remember. Every single one is wild on a leash until taught how to behave, bites and mouths until taught not to, will chase cats until taught not to. Well you see where I'm going.

(one tip, put a baby gate in the doorway of a safe room for the cats so they can get over but puppy can't)


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

> I plan on discussing this with the vet today at her visit, I also plan on contacting a local breeder. The puppy store where we got her over charged, she was a wopping 1100$ which we were fine with since we really wanted a Golden for the Christmas and there were like none left anywhere. But I had no intention of spending that kind of money on an agressive dog. My husband and I have agreed that we will return her if we can not remedy this behavior


First, I hope and expect that this is normal puppy behavior and with care and training she'll grow out of it.

On the other hand, I've had Tessie (9 1/2 weeks old) for the same nine days. She's been a perfect little angel. A few puppy teething nips, a couple od accidents because her people didn't read her signals, but she's got the sweetest, calmest disposition. She walks on a leash, she's had a short happy visit with a neighbor's golden. She sits. She fetches. 

Why? Partly we got lucky (and got pick of the litter by waiting almost six months) but Tessie's Mom and Dad and Grandma and Uncle are all sweet, beautifully behaved Goldens. It's probably not a coincidence. (Also, she hasn't been unattended for a minute since we've had her--when she's been alone, it's in the x-pen or her crate.)

FWIW, we paid $1,200 for her. Some people would say that's a lot of money for a dog, but I'd do it again in a heartbeat. It seems to me that the homework, and the upfront cost of a dog is an investment in the dog's heath and well-being and your own sanity.
You tend to pay the breeder now, or the doggie behaviorist and the vet later. 

best
Allen


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## Roxannes_mom (Jan 6, 2009)

avincent52 said:


> First, I hope and expect that this is normal puppy behavior and with care and training she'll grow out of it.
> 
> On the other hand, I've had Tessie (9 1/2 weeks old) for the same nine days. She's been a perfect little angel. A few puppy nips, a few accidents because her people didn't read her signals, but she's got the sweetest, calmest disposition.


Do you have any cats? Maybe its just the fact that she has to share her home with 4 feline "friends" that makes her so rambunctious? You all have given me new hope, and weve had a really good day so far. She came across the neighbor with her senior dog today and she insisted that they wouldnt fight. Roxy tried to jump her, but she backed away when growled at which I find really promising. After a few minutes she found a stick and just laid there. And even let one of the cats get in her face without a single snort, maybe because we took an extra long morning walk. Shes passed out at my feet now. 

BTW It was the scariest walk ever, we were out by the pond, she likes to watch the ducks, when I noticed an unleashed Rot about 50 yards away staring us down. I was in a huge feild about 300 yards from the house. Needless to say I was terrified. I scooped her up and starting proudly walking back to the house trying not to show fear or my tasty morsal of a puppy I was carrying, luckily the Rot went back home when we started to leave, I guess he was just guarding his house. Dont know if well be going to the duck pond again any time soon tho. In any case, I think a puppy training/socialization class will be as good for me as it is for her, I am way too paranoid and protective. 

Thanks again for all the advice. As soon as I can get back to my normal computer, we had a flood (sigh, such an event filled week) I will post some pictures


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## FishinBuddy (Nov 20, 2008)

Sounds pretty normal to me. My puppy has never seen a cat but i would expect him to chase it. He chases birds and squirrels so why not a cat. It's instinct. A previous post said you must be 100% committed and I agree 100% with that. You will get out of it what you put into it. As for the playing my dog and his doggie friends play very hard but you can see the difference and make sure it's always supervised so you can stop a fight before it begins (if thats the case).
Good luck and post some pics!


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## Rhapsody in Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> This isn't going to be what you want to hear, but she's displaying very normal "pet store puppy" behavior.
> She was taken from her littermates too young to have learned bite inhibition and gentle play. I'd suspect you're having a hard time with potty training, too, that's pretty typical with puppies from pet stores.
> It does NOT mean she's aggressive. It means she's displaying typical behavior for a puppy that hasn't learned that this type of behavior is not acceptable.
> JMO, I think you can work her thru this. It will take a lot of time and patience, and of course working with a good trainer can make all the difference in the world. There are a lot of people on this forum who can give you good sound advice on how to deal with some of the issues you are having.
> ...


I have to agree with this post - - - it is the first thing I thought.

You are obviously very tired and concerned. Raising a puppy takes a great deal of time and energy and you need to think about this for her well-being. If you decide to go forward, then you have to start getting some sleep at night so you can bring more positive energy when working with her. I don't think you should keep her unless you are able and willing to give her the extra time and attention she needs. 

I am so sorry, but I am concerned for this puppy and not knowing you at all - - - I wonder about your judgment and your ability to take this on. Yet, you are here, seeking answers. And that is so good. We all have had experiences like this where we wonder "what was I thinking?". So what will you do? If for whatever reason you cannot give this your all, then she should be re-homed before it is too late. 

As a starting point, I encourage you to work with a trainer. She can observe you, your husband, your cats, and your puppy together. My wish for you is that you will gain more insight into the situation and grow in your confidence and abilities to raise her into a really fine dog.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Roxannes_mom said:


> maybe because we took an extra long morning walk.


Exercise is the make-or-break aspect of training a high-energy dog and of phasing out unwanted behavior. Think about how many problems you're having are related to her excess energy. Burn off as much as you can before training sessions or any exciting situations with the cats, etc. 

You can do this!


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

Are you crate training? Even if you are home all the time, it is very useful in the bonding process.

It sounds like you have made the committment to make your pup the well socialized, healthy, active dog she can become! Good luck and keep us posted!


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Roxannes_mom said:


> And even let one of the cats get in her face without a single snort, maybe because we took an extra long morning walk. Shes passed out at my feet now.


That is a very important point, a tired puppy is a good puppy. Lots of running, chasing a ball, or working on obedience to tire her mind out will help.

Chin up, she really sounds like a normal puppy with lots of energy, and you are right, a puppy class will be good for both of you.


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## jonesyboy (Sep 20, 2008)

I agree, exersice is very important. If Jonesy has a good walk every day, he settles down in the evenings & mostly sleeps on his bed. If he doesn't he's far more likely to be crazy at night.

Sue


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## PeanutsMom (Oct 14, 2007)

Sounds like typical puppy stuff to me. When we had my Peachy's puppies around they weren't all too cuddly, unless they were in pass out mode, they wanted to chew on your hands or chin or whatever they could reach. I'm lucky enough to still see two of them now, at a year old, and they will now cuddle and sit in your lap.Your pup doesn't sound dangerous to me


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## time4goldens (Mar 13, 2006)

I agree with pretty much all of the above posts. Since you did not go through the ideal channels to find a dog, you will never know what the parents temperment was like. So instead of wondering about it, put your energy into giving the puppy and yourself what you both need... some training.

At 10 weeks of age, the puppy is too young for puppy classes due to the vaccines not being complete. You might want to invite a private trainer in to give you some pointers. the dog doesn't need the training right now - you do. You need to learn how to be an alpha around your puppy. He is going to try you and attempt to win. You need to be the leader.

If you have access to the National Geographic channel - watch some Cesar Millan episodes. There is a great book by Job Michael Evans - The Evans Guide to Housebreaking Your Dog (amazon.com has it). This book is not just about potty training your dog, it is about puppyhood and very entertaining at the same time.

Read up on how to do crate training. It is a valuable lesson and will help set boundaries for the pup - remember not to use the crate as punishment.

Put the pup on a leash and attach it to your belt buckle when in the house.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

Roxannes_mom said:


> Do you have any cats? Maybe its just the fact that she has to share her home with 4 feline "friends" that makes her so rambunctious? You all have given me new hope, and weve had a really good day so far. She came across the neighbor with her senior dog today and she insisted that they wouldnt fight. Roxy tried to jump her, but she backed away when growled at which I find really promising. After a few minutes she found a stick and just laid there. And even let one of the cats get in her face without a single snort, maybe because we took an extra long morning walk. Shes passed out at my feet now.
> 
> In any case, I think a puppy training/socialization class will be as good for me as it is for her, I am way too paranoid and protective.
> 
> Thanks again for all the advice. As soon as I can get back to my normal computer, we had a flood (sigh, such an event filled week) I will post some pictures


No cats. Just two kids, nine and 12 and quite mature for their ages. That said, Tessie has been rather shy but curious around other dogs outside the house, and in general has been pretty calm. She is a couple weeks younger than Roxanne.

To be frank, we're really lucky with Tessie, but I'm still bracing for the fact that this could be the calm before the storm.

That said, she's been under contstant supervision, and has always had someone watching or been in her crate or her x-pen. We also exercise her til she drops--she's outside five or six times a day, and at least three or four of them include a long walk or some ball fetching. 

We've also kept Tessie on a short leash, figuratively. She stays on the floor, no furniture. She's only got the run of two rooms. We don't let her jump when greeting someone or nip at all. It's much easier to slacken the rules later than to get tough after she's gotten out of control. 

I would second the crate training suggestion, and think about an x-pen. They're on sale this week at PetSmart, BTW.

Good luck. You'll get through it, but nip the bad behavior in the (air) bud now.

best
Allen


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## Thor0918 (Feb 28, 2008)

I agree with the baby gate. I put one up that we cut a small hole out of the bottom so the cat can get through and not the dogs. Don't be too hard on the pup remember she's just a pup! Enjoy and as someone said.........where are the pictures?


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## Roxannes_mom (Jan 6, 2009)

Thanks for all the new posts. We just got back from the Vet and to go visit her daddy at work. She does great on car rides  I also called a trainer and spoke with her for about an hour, she said the same thing many of you have, that she would be amazed if it was true aggression and not just her not knowing better and normal puppy behavior. We will be starting classes on Sunday...cant wait! Shes been good with the cats today, but did get into it with a young Husky puppy at the Vets office. She started with the normal sniffing and playing, then she decided she wanted to be a hat for the Husky, at this point I pulled her off as it was time to go. She then started growling and scared the poor Husky, Id say it was maybe the same age or a little younger. It upset the owner and I felt horrible for not being able to control her, which is why Im looking forward to the training. The trainer says she will evaluate her when we are there and if it is true aggression we will start with private lessons. 

As far as the crate training, I have opted not to do it. I am home all the time with her, haven't left her side for more than 5 mins since we got her. My reasoning was based on my sisters dogs. They are crate trained, about 1.5 years old, and are very well behaved. My sister has done an awesome job with them. But she crates them all the time, they dont mind it but it seems cruel for a large older dog. At least to me. And when theyre out of the crate and away from her, with me or my mom, they are a total menace. I know she isnt doing it properly and that you arent supposed to crate dogs for that long of a time, she does it for 8hr stretches when shes at work. When I had my dog when I was younger there was no such thing as crates so it just seems strange to me. However, I am considering giving it a shot, at least until shes older but I would prefer not to have an adult dog in a crate. I understand it keeps them safe when you cant be around, and I know it would help with the cats, but I have a baby gate I use when I have to leave for her protection..which she hates and barks til shes hoarse.

As far as potty training, she learned fast. She knows when she has to go and she will usually go look at the door. She still has a few accidents but those are my fault, she goes every 1.5 hours and sometimes I just dont get her outside fast enough. So I dont think I need the crate for housebreaking purposes. She goes outside 80% of the time after just 9 days, and is rewarded handsomly for it. She sleeps on the floor on a pillow next to the bed and will wake me around 2am and 6am when she needs to go outside. I know I need sleep, but Im very impressed with her ability to tell me whats up, she has never had an accident in the bedroom, so I think she thinks that whole room is her crate...lol


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## Bob-N-Tash (Feb 24, 2008)

Another vote for enthusiastic puppy behaviour. Somewhere around 12 months you will think you finally have a well behaved dog... and shortly after that there will most likely be another puppy brain relapse or two. 

Natasha came to us from a home breeder when she was eight weeks old. After meeting the family, saw the home environment and the other puppies and the dam, we felt that the puppies were very well socialized and decided that one of these pups was meant for us. 

Love and patience. Still, Natasha was very mouthy for the first 6 months... there were times that I was certain that I had purchased a baby pirannah and not a GR puppy. Couldn't count the tiny bite and scratch marks on my ankles and hands and arms. Admittedly there were a few days that I wanted to drop kick the cute little bundle of fuzz across the back yard... but I would take a deep breath and remind myself that the puppy was doing what came naturally and that she was still a baby. 

One morning I found myself thinking about how baby elephants will grasp the tail of the mother and follow around. And I began that dragging a leash around with me when I walked around the house or the yard. This gave the puppy something to latch on to when she wanted to stick close with me. It also reduced the ankle nipping by about 90%.

Also, instead of reprimanding unwanted behaviour I tended to fold my arms and turn my back on the puppy until it would settle down. After all, what they want is the interaction and attention. 

When she was 2 1/2 we bred Natasha and had a litter of six puppies. What we wanted were healthy, well socialized, confident, enthusiastic puppies and based on the feedback we have from the 5 families that purchased puppies from us, we achieved that goal. 

We kept one of the puppies.... that would be Bob. Bob was not as mouthy as Natasha was... or so I thought. Then one day while grooming Natasha we discovered hundreds... no, thousands ... of tiny bite marks around her neck and paws. As the mother she was the main target for Bob's tooth work. 

Now at 16 months old, Bob is still a little mouthy... but he has developed a more gentle touch when it comes to holding my fingers in his mouth. 

Patience, patience, patience..... and then a little more patience. 

I see that a number of people have recommended exercise and play time for the puppy. Good idea, but keep it in perspective. Short walks are good... and short bursts of play time. Even though your pup will double in size in a very short time and begin to look like a big dog... it is still a puppy. Lot's of mental and physical development going on for the first 2 years.

And, last thoughts.... our dogs are not crated either.... as puppies they were crated at night early on... and then very shortly they were permitted free access to the tiled areas of the kitchen. Baby gates blocking the doors to carpeted areas of the house. They enjoyed the additional freedom.. but it came at a price. Freedom was given in exchange for socially acceptable behaviour. For instance... "chase the swiffer" was not a game that I enjoyed. The first 3 times that I attempted to swiffer the kitchen floor Natasha would pounce on the moving target... and without any comment or excitement I would stop, pick her up, and lock her in the crate until I finished my task. The 4th day the swiffer raced past her I could see every muscle in her body tense for the attack. Then she looked over at the crate and decided that she wasn't interested in another 5-10 minute imprisonment. We haven't had a problem since that day... maybe something similar would work with the cats. In any case, I would think that for the time being that you just avoid any unsupervised meetings of the new puppy and kittens. 

Good luck...


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## ksipola (Jan 23, 2008)

As far as the crate training, I have opted not to do it. 

Please don't rule out crate training. It is just that-training. It by no means suggests that your pupper will be in the crate all the time. It is a great tool for potty training. It is also a safe places dogs like to go. You said that you never leaver her side...well, eventually you will have to. Even if it going to the grocery store for a hour or out to dinner...It is much safer to have a pup or young mouthy dog in a crate than roaming your house. Even if you gated her in a room, trust me, they can be destructive. If she has a safe place to go, when you do leave, you will feel much better. Also, she at some point needs to learn that being alone is OK. If you are with her 24/7 when you do leave she is going to be stressed. A crate actually would help her feel better...it is like their house. I am not saying not crate training can't be done, but a lot of people on this forum much more intelligent that I on the subject of training and behavior do believe in crate training. Anyone agree or disagree??


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## ksipola (Jan 23, 2008)

ksipola said:


> As far as the crate training, I have opted not to do it.
> 
> Please don't rule out crate training. It is just that-training. It by no means suggests that your pupper will be in the crate all the time. It is a great tool for potty training. It is also a safe places dogs like to go. You said that you never leaver her side...well, eventually you will have to. Even if it going to the grocery store for a hour or out to dinner...It is much safer to have a pup or young mouthy dog in a crate than roaming your house. Even if you gated her in a room, trust me, they can be destructive. If she has a safe place to go, when you do leave, you will feel much better. Also, she at some point needs to learn that being alone is OK. If you are with her 24/7 when you do leave she is going to be stressed. A crate actually would help her feel better...it is like their house. I am not saying not crate training can't be done, but a lot of people on this forum much more intelligent that I on the subject of training and behavior do believe in crate training. Anyone agree or disagree??


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## ksipola (Jan 23, 2008)

Lord-no idea why this posted 2x's...just don't follow any of my computer advice!!!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I absolutely agree with BOTH your posts, LOL. Crates are very valuable tools when used correctly. And when the dogs are introduced to them young, and correctly, they learn to love their crate (den). All 3 of my goldens love their crates, we leave the doors open on the crates (which are in my bedroom) and all 3 dogs sleep in their crates by choice every night. A lot of times, if one isn't nearby, they can be found relaxing in their crate.




ksipola said:


> ksipola said:
> 
> 
> > As far as the crate training, I have opted not to do it.
> ...


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## lizlovesmasen (Jan 6, 2009)

My golden is 13 weeks old now, and when we first got him at 7 weeks he displayed some of the same "aggressiveness" that you originally described. The first week Masen & I would walk in the park where there seem to be an abundance of chicken bones (we live in an urban area), and he would always lunge at them. I found myself pulling them out of his throat almost every time we went out, and he would act aggressive growling and snapping at me, once even biting my hand so hard I bled. This was the worst case - but the violent growling and snapping also occurred other times Masen didn't get what he wanted. His behavior was clearly not just "puppy play". I was very concerned about this and started doing quite a bit of research on circumventing this behavior. 

After reading quite a few books & talking to my vet (who is pretty amazing), I discovered that Goldens are actually the #1 biters in dog bite cases in the U.S. b/c they can have an aggressive streak if not stopped early. Our vet told us to never let Masen bite on us, not even play biting - stop it immediately and give him one of his toys. She also told us never to play tug-of-war with him until he was older and trained b/c this game can bring out aggressiveness. 

I have to say that once we started implementing these things consistently paired with the Cesar Millan "Shh!" and a "hand bite" to the shoulder, Masen stopped biting less and less and now, and 13 weeks old, he's completely learned to only chew on his toys and never bites me or anyone else (and he meets a lot of new people every day!) We just had to be persistent and consistent with him and always be "calm assertive" as Cesar always says!

Also someone mentioned that a well exercised puppy is a well behaved one, and we have also found that getting daily exercise helps Masen a lot. We either take him out for a run every day and we have also taught him how to walk on the treadmill, which he does when it's really cold or raining or mommy has lots of work to do


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

All three of my goldens "graduated" from their crates between 6-11 months. I dont crate our adult dogs, but it prevents pups from developing bad habits, teaches them to rest when you are gone for a short while, and keeps them safe and not overstimulated.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

lizlovesmasen said:


> After reading quite a few books & talking to my vet (who is pretty amazing), I discovered that Goldens are actually the #1 biters in dog bite cases in the U.S. b/c they can have an aggressive streak if not stopped early.


I don't believe this statement is at all correct. If Goldens have a high number of bite reports it is because the breed is extremley popular and there is a much larger population of Goldens than other breeds. That allows for a higher percentage of bites but in the percentage is not higher than other breeds. The breed is not known for an "aggressive streak".

I'm glad that you have had success with curbing your puppies biting, but I think you can probably attribute it to his getting a little older as well as learning not to bite by your consistent training.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

lizlovesmasen said:


> After reading quite a few books & talking to my vet (who is pretty amazing), I discovered that Goldens are actually the #1 biters in dog bite cases in the U.S. b/c they can have an aggressive streak if not stopped early.


I believe that claim to be patently false. I would very much like to see the study or survey that claims Goldens are the number one biters in the US. To my understanding, that honor changes from year to year depending on breed popularity. Goldens may have won in the number of overall reported bites in the years they were the most popular dogs in the country, but their bite incidence by percentage is probably fairly low.

The dogs most likely to bite tend to be the dogs that people buy when they want a guard dog. The dogs most likely to deliver a serious bite are those that were bred for stronger jaws (i.e., pitbulls).

Goldens do bite, just like all other dogs, but they're not equipped with the muscle or the dentition to do damage. Quite the contrary—they're bred as soft mouth retrievers for bird work. 

It's possible that there are lots of badly bred Goldens out there raised by breeders who don't socialize and remove them from their mothers and litters too early. That would make them more aggressive and likely to bite, but that's nurture, not nature. Goldens are probably puppy milled and backyard bred by the careless more than their fair share. They're probably also purchased by people who think the dog will automatically socialize itself and be great with kids with no real effort. A careless person who thinks the dog won't possibly retaliate may pay less attention to a child who's treating it badly. All of that would lead to more bites.

But to call it a breed with an aggressive streak? Laughable.


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## PeanutsMom (Oct 14, 2007)

"Dog bite statistics are not really statistics, and they
do not give an accurate picture of dogs that bite.
Invariably the numbers will show that dogs from popular
large breeds are a problem. This should be expected,
because big dogs can physically do more damage if
they do bite, and any popular breed has more individuals
that could bite." AVMA.org

http://www.avma.org/public_health/dogbite/dogbite.pdf


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## rradovitch (Mar 15, 2008)

tippykayak said:


> Exercise is the make-or-break aspect of training a high-energy dog and of phasing out unwanted behavior.


Of all the obedience classes I have been to, the BEST bit of advice I was given was that a tired dog is a good dog. The next best thing we learned was "puppy management"/restraints that they learn to LOVE...as do vets,groomers and anyone else that may handle your dog. IMO, puppy classes and crate training are "musts." You will learn things that are invaluable from a good instructor. Preferably not one at a petstore! 

Also, like many others have said, it sounds like normal puppy behavior. Sure there are puppies that are relaxed, perfect little angels at 9 1/2 weeks old. Too bad for them and their owners because they will have this type of behavior for the rest of their lives. They are only puppies once and it ends too quickly. Enjoy it, bond with her but just remember that you are the boss.(This does not mean to be mean!)

Last,when we first got Zoe, I wondered if we got a "devil-dog." She wasn't especially interested in us and she was rough with us at times. She even broke skin with her little puppy teeth. Today she is laying beside me as I type this and we have a great bond. She trusts me and would do anything for me. I know every pet owner says that their dog is the sweetest, but I will too. MANY people that are not even "dog people" have told me this. With time, work and a little exhaustion on your part, your future family should end up with a great pet.


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## rradovitch (Mar 15, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> I absolutely agree with BOTH your posts, LOL. Crates are very valuable tools when used correctly. And when the dogs are introduced to them young, and correctly, they learn to love their crate (den). All 3 of my goldens love their crates, we leave the doors open on the crates (which are in my bedroom) and all 3 dogs sleep in their crates by choice every night. A lot of times, if one isn't nearby, they can be found relaxing in their crate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## K9 Passion (Jan 2, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> This isn't going to be what you want to hear, but she's displaying very normal "pet store puppy" behavior.
> She was taken from her littermates too young to have learned bite inhibition and gentle play. I'd suspect you're having a hard time with potty training, too, that's pretty typical with puppies from pet stores.
> It does NOT mean she's aggressive. It means she's displaying typical behavior for a puppy that hasn't learned that this type of behavior is not acceptable.
> JMO, I think you can work her thru this. It will take a lot of time and patience, and of course working with a good trainer can make all the difference in the world. There are a lot of people on this forum who can give you good sound advice on how to deal with some of the issues you are having.
> ...


I *really* like this response & I agree completely. This is the perfect post to help this person.


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

glad to hear you are starting puppy classes!
You got a lot of great information.

I wouldn't worry about her too much, she is just a baby! have fun with her and have fun at the classes.

I have a kitten who is the same age as Cody and he bats her around like a ball all the time. He even picks her up with his teeth, ouch! but she doesn't cry and she still always comes back to play.
If your cats are not crying then they are okay.
But I would not allow the puppy to bark at the cats. This is a big time no-no in our house.
We have a 9 year old cat who Cody is afraid of so he will just bark at him. We don't allow it and correct his behaviour right away. 
No barking in the house allowed!


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## lizlovesmasen (Jan 6, 2009)

Just for anyone who's curious, here's one of the primary studies regarding genetic traits of aggression in goldens - this is the link to the abstract, you can you click on the full text link for the entire study. 

Honesty when I heard it I didn't really think it was founded either. But in addition, any dog can have aggressive traits under certain circumstances. I was merely making the statement because many people (not on the forum per se, more so people I've met & talked to) seem to believe that a golden can do no wrong and would never be aggressive, which isn't true. This was my purpose for making the statement, sorry that it got everyone so riled up! Also, clearly the cases of dog bites rise and fall with popularity, but some breeds are lower on the list than others, i.e. pugs, which I've had my whole life until I got Masen, and they never even engaged in play biting, because they're not a mouthy breed. It's just something to be aware of, that's all. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16799833


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## WLR (May 11, 2008)

I erased what I originally wrote because the previous replys have expressed themselves so well. All I can do is encourage you to do the best you can, raise her right, and have patience with her. Go with an experienced (as in years) trainer, not a pet store amateur. Do not spay her too early, as she needs to become fully grown. Watch what the "target" weights are for her age. Dont feed her junk dog food. Your puppy will grow to be a wonderfull companion faithfull to the last beat of her heart. Don't let her down. YOU are her world.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

lizlovesmasen said:


> Just for anyone who's curious, here's one of the primary studies regarding genetic traits of aggression in goldens - this is the link to the abstract, you can you click on the full text link for the entire study.
> 
> Honesty when I heard it I didn't really think it was founded either. But in addition, any dog can have aggressive traits under certain circumstances. I was merely making the statement because many people (not on the forum per se, more so people I've met & talked to) seem to believe that a golden can do no wrong and would never be aggressive, which isn't true. This was my purpose for making the statement, sorry that it got everyone so riled up! Also, clearly the cases of dog bites rise and fall with popularity, but some breeds are lower on the list than others, i.e. pugs, which I've had my whole life until I got Masen, and they never even engaged in play biting, because they're not a mouthy breed. It's just something to be aware of, that's all.
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16799833


I read this abstract after a huge meal and a beer so I may not have read it entirely correctly, but it seems like this study was conducted on Golden Retriever dogs that were already reported as aggressive dogs. That would be like studying the occurrence of violent behavior in people imprisoned for assault or battery. Obviously every breed is going to have a few "bad seeds" - but that doesn't necessarily mean the whole breed should be labeled as aggressive. *edit* Oh, and I'm not trying to incite an argument at all - I'm just expressing my opinion.  It's all in good spirits.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

kdmarsh said:


> I read this abstract after a huge meal and a beer so I may not have read it entirely correctly, but it seems like this study was conducted on Golden Retriever dogs that were already reported as aggressive dogs. That would be like studying the occurrence of violent behavior in people imprisoned for assault or battery. Obviously every breed is going to have a few "bad seeds" - but that doesn't necessarily mean the whole breed should be labeled as aggressive. *edit* Oh, and I'm not trying to incite an argument at all - I'm just expressing my opinion.  It's all in good spirits.


Yeah, I just bounced through it too, and I agree with your assessment. It's a study of dogs with aggression to try to identify genetic markers. It definitely makes sense that there are genetic predispositions towards aggression, and they're found in Goldens just like in other breeds, but I still don't think it's fair to say those tendencies are _higher_ in Goldens than the average.

And pugs are hardly a fair comparison. None of the small breeds have the same "aggression" numbers as the larger breeds because they simply can't do the bite damage of larger dogs. Therefore, their aggression is usually tolerated for much longer rather than reported. If a pug savagely chases off the neighbor's kid, delivering a few bites to his pant leg on the way, people laugh it off, even though the pug may be insane. If a large Golden does it, people are more likely to call animal control.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

although I agree with everything else in your post, I have to disagree with the statement that they're not equipped with the muscle or dentition to do damage.
I board one golden that did damage requiring well over 40 stitches in someone, and another one that ripped their teenage daughter to the tune of 13 stitches.
Look at those teeth! They can do damage if the choose to. Luckily, being goldens, they rarely choose to.




tippykayak said:


> I believe that claim to be patently false. Goldens do bite, just like all other dogs, but they're not equipped with the muscle or the dentition to do damage. Quite the contrary—they're bred as soft mouth retrievers for bird work.
> 
> 
> But to call it a breed with an aggressive streak? Laughable.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

All dogs have the ability to be aggressive. Growling, and if it is ignored, snapping, are a dog's only ways of saying, "Please stop that" and if it works even once, it is more likely to be repeated again. Dogs do what works in their world to get what they need and/or want. 

It sounds like your puppy is confident and playful... and it may intimidate other puppies, especially one that's not very socialized and is nervous. I really wouldn't worry too much.

The housebreaking sounds like it's going great- good job!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> although I agree with everything else in your post, I have to disagree with the statement that they're not equipped with the muscle or dentition to do damage.
> I board one golden that did damage requiring well over 40 stitches in someone, and another one that ripped their teenage daughter to the tune of 13 stitches.
> Look at those teeth! They can do damage if the choose to. Luckily, being goldens, they rarely choose to.


Yes, I'm sorry, I exaggerated while I was making my point, and it came out absolutely misleading. Goldens have soft mouths _relative_ to breeds that were intended for guarding, defense, fighting, etc. They can absolutely do serious damage to human skin if they attack. However, a better equipped dog in the same situation would do much more damage.

And yes, they tend to be more tolerant and less aggressive if they're well bred and trained.


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## agoldenliferanch (Aug 1, 2008)

I'd like to inject another point of view to this discussion...

I don't believe there is "typical" puppy behavior because I think so much depends on the the care and socialization the pup receives early on. We talk a lot about temperment with a pup's parents but it's just as important to determine the level of care and nurturing the pup receives from birth until you bring him home. 

One of the primary problems with puppy store pups, other than the obvious (that they come from puppy mills) is the lack of socialization, both human and with Mom and littermates, and watching out for feeding issues. An example....a large litter where a pup does not get enough access to Mom's milk can conceivably lead to food aggression if brought home to a house with other dogs.

I believe that a pup's core personality is shaped between the ages of 3-12 weeks. A puppy store dog most likely was taken at 6 weeks from Mom and littermates and was not properly socialized or protected within the pack. So those critical three weeks where solid food is introduced, personalities are being formed and vital interaction with humans and littermates is not properly done and supervised, the pup is not getting the best start in life. You bring the pup home and you're already behind. 

Whereas a breeder who monitors its litter from the get go, makes sure all pups get a proper turn at nursing, handles, socializes and starts evaluating the personalities as they form, nurtures and starts the training process and most importantly, not let the pup go to its new home until at least 8 weeks old, delivers a pup to its new home, 2/3's of the way to a healthy, happy life. None of this is to say, by the way, that at 12 weeks your pup is "finished" and no further training is necessary but to say that if raised properly during the first 4 months, training and adjusting to its new home is more likely to be a successful experience for the family and the dog.


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

Originally Posted by hotel4dogs 
This isn't going to be what you want to hear, but she's displaying very normal "pet store puppy" behavior.
She was taken from her littermates too young to have learned bite inhibition and gentle play. I'd suspect you're having a hard time with potty training, too, that's pretty typical with puppies from pet stores. 
It does NOT mean she's aggressive. It means she's displaying typical behavior for a puppy that hasn't learned that this type of behavior is not acceptable.
JMO, I think you can work her thru this. It will take a lot of time and patience, and of course working with a good trainer can make all the difference in the world. There are a lot of people on this forum who can give you good sound advice on how to deal with some of the issues you are having. 
As far as not being very affectionate, give her some time. Everything is so new to her, she can't be bothered with love and affection right now! She missed out on about 3 critical weeks of development with her littermates (during shipment and quarantine) and she's trying to make up for it now.
As far as the mouthing (of you), the most important thing it to always have available something that she is allowed to have. Whenever she tries to put a human part in her mouth, tell her NO very sternly, immediately give her something she is allowed to have, and then praise her for taking it. It's the only way they learn what's acceptable; you can't just tell them what isn't.
And...spend lots of time here! Browse the forum, you will find lots of people who are very knowledgeable and helpful, and you will find threads (try the puppy section) where others have dealt with the same issues.


Excellent post. Your advice is spot on.

Something I do with my fosters, whenever my dogs lick me, I tell them kisses good and give them a treat. Should the dog put it's teeth on me, I tell it NO TEETH, KISSES only, and since the dog has learned the word kiss means licking, the dog will lick me for the treat. It redirects mouthing from using teeth to licking. Slight problem in that most of my dogs end up loving to lick us which bugs my DH...especially Phoebe with that big tongue of hers! Still, I'd rather my foster lick their adoptive family then make the mistake of mouthing with their teeth where the new family might fear aggression and return the dog to rescue.

My first golden was purchased by my BIL from a pet store. She was extremely gentle. Puppies sold in pet stores are typically separated from their littermates too early which delays socialization, but as Hotel4dogs has already stated, you can work her through it.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...ausage-dogs-are-the-most-aggressive-dogs.html

Just thought I'd add this in. I remember seeing this article over the summer and not being particularly surprised about it - although I don't know how scientifically sound the whole study was, so it could be a load of crap for all I know. However, I know that personally the only dogs that have snapped or bitten me have been smaller dogs. Not to say that all smaller dogs are aggressive (many are super sweet, so please don't take offense), but I think that smaller dogs generally have a LOT more attitude than larger breeds.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

We've had one of each: our first Golden was very calm, sweet, quiet and NEVER went through puppy biting. She came from a backyard breeder and lived until she was 14 1/2.

Our Penny sounds just like your pup. I thought I was getting another one like the first one. I'm very experienced with animals and she really gave me a run for my money. Penny came from a hobby breeder at 8 weeks.

I agree with AquaClaraCanine's assesment: she's a lively, spirited, active girl. Just like our Penny. As for chasing the cats, well all puppies get the zoomies. Having something to chase makes it just that much more fun. Do keep an eye on your cats. They need perches high above puppy to they have escape. Also, a safe room that puppy can't get into (baby gate across door) is helpful to them.

These puppies don't come trained. It takes a lot of work. I'm glad to see you're about to start puppy kindergarten. It sure saved our butts! We continued in more challenging obedience classes for another 2 years.

People often stop to admire Penny and tell me how well behaved she is. Then they ask: how long did it take to train her? I always respond by saying first: Including today? A well-behaved dog takes work and devotion. They are always a work in progress. But it's the most fun 'work' you'll ever do and it will create a bond between the two of you that is unshakable.

Keep us posted.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I went back and read all the replies. One mentioned Cesar Milan. I love to watch his show too but AND IT'S A BIG BUT: really listen to the beginning that you not try these things at home.

Our Penny is a confident, assertive, alpha wannabe dog. A 'shoulder bite' or a 'roll' is a huge HUGE challenge and will not bring out submission. 

Even when we're playing on the floor and she's boxing with me or play biting, a shoulder bite to her will bring on a complete change of demeanor. She's see that as a huge alpha move AGAINST HER. It doesn't work on spirited dogs and submissive dogs don't need it, so please don't try to copy Cesar Milan's techniques. Stick with your trainer and make sure you reward the behavior you want. Dogs do what suits them best and if sitting gets the treat, they'll quit jumping and sit for the treat. Appeal to her greed!


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

kdmarsh said:


> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...ausage-dogs-are-the-most-aggressive-dogs.html
> 
> Just thought I'd add this in. I remember seeing this article over the summer and not being particularly surprised about it - although I don't know how scientifically sound the whole study was, so it could be a load of crap for all I know. However, I know that personally the only dogs that have snapped or bitten me have been smaller dogs. Not to say that all smaller dogs are aggressive (many are super sweet, so please don't take offense), but I think that smaller dogs generally have a LOT more attitude than larger breeds.


I agree. Not sure if small dogs tend to be high strung, or if people are not as careful when approaching smaller dogs, or if the people that own those smaller dogs don't take the biting seriously. I have noticed, that it is rare that somebody will stick their face in Phoebe's, but I've had people lean right in on my small dogs. I often have cairn terrier fosters that are not socialized and I am always having to request they not stick their face in the dog's face when saying hello. NEVER lead with your face no matter what the size of the dog is.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

To the OP I wanted to let you know that your puppy sounds exactly like Lucky was. And he is now an exceptional sweetheart.


I do think Lucky lacked socialization...just made his puppyhood harder and a tad less enjoyable. The work is well worth it and pays off big.


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## Roxannes_mom (Jan 6, 2009)

Update: She has been doing much better, Ive spent a lot of time with her and the cats together and its helping, she does still chase them but Ive noticed shes only chasing the two that antagonize her, she bites them, but they dont seem harmed so maybe shes not hurting them at all. A few days ago I pulled a thorn out of her side...LOL...it was deep, there was no redness or swelling and her skin had started the graft to it, which made me think it had been there a long time. Since I pulled it out she has been progressivly getting better, shes stopped most of the growling and has even stopped trying to bite me as much. I wonder if when she played with other dogs she landed on her side, and thought the thorn was a bite and thats why she growled? So maybe she just "had a thorn in her side" or maybe shes just getting better with time. Im just happy shes calming down a bit. I think puppy training will be boring for the fisrt few weeks too sicne shes already learned sit, lay down, and come. She learns so fast Im going to skip the other stuff well learn in class and try to teach her Jacobs Ladder. 

Thanks again to everyone for all of your advice, you have made the last week so much easier for me. As soon as she quits running at the camera I will get a pic of her.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Wow! A real thorn in her side...life imitating art.

Let's hope that was a huge part of what was causing her to act so defensively.


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## Roxannes_mom (Jan 6, 2009)

Well I guess I was being overly optimistic. She showed true agression this evening. Scared the crap out of me. I had given the cats some milk, she was asleep in the kitchen so I didnt think shed even notice. Then she came over and growled at one of the cats that was not drinking the milk. I told her to stop, which she did. Then she went over to the milk, I saw that it could cause an issue and went to pick up the bowl. She went crazy, she growled worse than Ive ever heard and lunged at the fleeing cat. Since I had her by her collar she struggled, then once she realized I was the one holding her she lunged at me, growling and snapping. She had to be held down by my husband so I could get the cats out of the room. After about a minute she calmed down. Luckily no one was harmed in all this. 

Im starting to figure its food/toy aggression. She did good with all the dogs she met today, 5 of em including a puppy and a 100lb Rottie. The only problem Im seeing with other dogs now is that she doesnt know when to back off, shell piss them off, they growl and she keeps on jumping/playing. 

I am going to purchase a crate, and hopefully that will help acclimate her to the cats and visa versa. And hopefully the puppy socialization class will help too. I plan on removing all of her toys and only giving them as rewards/take them away when she gets too excited. I also plan on hand feeding her, feeding cats first, etc. If anyone has any other tips on how to deal with this sort of aggression, Id love to hear it.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

I think getting a crate seems like a great idea. Make sure to get one with a divider so that you can buy one that will support her adult size while still keeping her to one side.
I'm pretty much in the same boat, but I would bet that the real experts here will suggest some NILF (nothing in life is free) training, and getting her to trade her food bowl/treats/whatever for better treats.

It struck me as kinda nuts at first, but when Tessie started guarding her new nylabone (nothing like this, but she did carry it away when I got too close) I started trading bits of kibble for it and giving it right back.
Think about it from the dog's perspective. You want her to trust you, and if all you do is take things away from her, she feels the need to act on that.

Have you thought about confining the cats to some degree? Since it's largely a cat thing, you might think about a new post with the word cat in the heading. 

allen

BTW, what's Jacob's Ladder? I googled it but found nothing about dog tricks/training.


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## Roxannes_mom (Jan 6, 2009)

Well Im not sure if thats the real name of the game. Its just what my husband called it when I told him what I was gonna do and I just ran with it. hehe. My hand, her paw, my hand, her paw, my hand....played it when I was a kid. 

I confined the cats for one day, and she was a lot better. Then I brought them out and she was ok for one day. I hate confining them for long periods, theyve had free fun of the house for years. And theyve been acting very agressive too, theyre pretty jealous, and right now their claws hurt more than her teeth. Im going to clear everything out of our too small kitchen and baby gate her in there, hopefully the cats wont be stupid enough to get down on the floor with her. I plan on feeding them right in front of her and giving them some treats in her bowl..after i pretend to eat the yucky doggie food from her bowl. Ive read this will help her realize the cats are above her on the totem pole and she must respect that and that I am above everyone. I plan on her barking like mad for a while, at least its a weekend. Good point on making a sperate post, maybe some people with more cat experience will see it.

Thanks for the tips


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Don't be too sure that puppy class will bore her! She'll be so excited to be there with other puppies that she won't pay any attention to you, she'll just want to play play play.

Our Penny was as good as gold at home (as far as sit, walk nice, etc.). When we got to puppy class, she was a "10" on the excitement scale. Like "Who is this puppy? Where's the one I spent the day with?"

The good news is that Our Penny was so tired out from all the excitement, that she slept most of the next day and was very quiet when she was awake.

You'll find your puppy will change from one minute to the next. Just about the time you think you've got something figured out, they're on to something else or reverting back to something you thought was over.

Day by day, though, you will win and have a wonderful Golden that you can't live without!


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## tintallie (May 31, 2006)

hotel4dogs said:


> although I agree with everything else in your post, I have to disagree with the statement that they're not equipped with the muscle or dentition to do damage.
> I board one golden that did damage requiring well over 40 stitches in someone, and another one that ripped their teenage daughter to the tune of 13 stitches.
> Look at those teeth! They can do damage if the choose to. Luckily, being goldens, they rarely choose to.


I would agree that a golden retriever is DEFINITELY capable of damage with their jaws and teeth. A year ago, an intact American Bulldog charged at us when we were walking on the street in our neighbourhood. It attacked my dog by going for his neck and a dog fight broke out.

The dog's owners pulled the two dogs apart as I stood there helplessly because my hand was bitten by a Boxer 45 minutes before this attack. Shaken and angry, we went home and I noticed Wiggs has blood on him along with punctures. When I reported it to the ACO and they made a visit, they told me later that the American Bulldog also had scars on its head.

The amount of pressure that can be exerted from my dog's jaw is amazing when I look at how he decimates his raw meaty bones....


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

tintallie said:


> I would agree that a golden retriever is DEFINITELY capable of damage with their jaws and teeth. A year ago, an intact American Bulldog charged at us when we were walking on the street in our neighbourhood. It attacked my dog by going for his neck and a dog fight broke out.
> 
> The dog's owners pulled the two dogs apart as I stood there helplessly because my hand was bitten by a Boxer 45 minutes before this attack. Shaken and angry, we went home and I noticed Wiggs has blood on him along with punctures. When I reported it to the ACO and they made a visit, they told me later that the American Bulldog also had scars on its head.
> 
> The amount of pressure that can be exerted from my dog's jaw is amazing when I look at how he decimates his raw meaty bones....


I would say you definately had a bad day....a dog bite and a dog fight....


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

kdmarsh said:


> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...ausage-dogs-are-the-most-aggressive-dogs.html
> 
> Just thought I'd add this in. I remember seeing this article over the summer and not being particularly surprised about it - although I don't know how scientifically sound the whole study was, so it could be a load of crap for all I know. However, I know that personally the only dogs that have snapped or bitten me have been smaller dogs. Not to say that all smaller dogs are aggressive (many are super sweet, so please don't take offense), but I think that smaller dogs generally have a LOT more attitude than larger breeds.


The other part of the equation is that owners tolerate behavior from small dogs that would be totally unacceptable--and downright dangerous and threatening--from a big dog. Small dogs are like cats in a way. 

Can you imagine living with something as big and powerful as a golden with the attitude of a house cat? You wouldn't want to meet that thing on a hiking trail much less in your living room.

FWIW, my Tessie is living proof of the importance of good breeding and/or socialization. So far, at 10 weeks, she's really been a little doll, with nothing more than a little nipping--most of it coming when she's going for a toy and gets my hand instead--and curious, confident interactions with the world outside. This may be the calm before the storm, but if, a year from now, I've got an almost grown dog who's as calm and trustworthy as this pup who's been home only two weeks, I'll consider myself pretty lucky. 

allen


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## wagondog (Aug 24, 2007)

One of my Rotties years ago was always in search of cats, he never got one but the agression he showed near them bothered me. I got creative and bought a few ceramic cat statues and put them around the house. I don't have the explanation but he would investigate them for a while and for some reason he for the most part never had the aggression for cats again. cheap fix if it works, and you get some non-moving cats to adorn the house


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## WLR (May 11, 2008)

This may be the calm before the storm
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It is.............. (Evil Boris Karloff laugh in the back ground)


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## Roxannes_mom (Jan 6, 2009)

Interesting idea about the statues. I think I will try it. Thought about stuffed cats, but that might just make things worse, but statues cant be chewed. Shes been a lot better with other dogs tho, mybe because Im not as nervous as I was in the beginning. She still plays rough with them and sits on their faces, but doesnt growl anymore. And shes met 2 dogs that sent her running. Its funny because theyre owners are like omg Im sooo sorry..I just laugh and say thank you. Its good to see that some dogs are able to stop her madness. Shes also made friends with a Corgi in puppy class...the largest dog there... the rest are little toys dogs. 

The puppy class is great, it helps to be around other new owners that are as terrified as I am. And the trainier is awesome, shes very informed and has been a trainer for 25 years, however she keeps with the trends and does not teach the "old school" ways. We work with treats, clickers, and words. She even made my Roxy the class example for the "watch me" command. Which Roxy just loved, more treats for her...I just know shes gonna be a fatty. 

So the only problems Im having now are with the cats, but keeping her in the kitchen so they can watch each other safely is helping. And ofc she horrible on the leash, she jumps at me because she thinks I have treats and even bit the back of my thigh last night...OUCH. But Im pretty sure it was an accident. She also play tug with the leash and I dont know how to handle this, Im not supposed to play tug so how do I get the leash away from her? Ive been coating it in apple bitter, and I think its helping, she doesnt hold on to it as tightly. 

Im just glad its winter and I can wear jeans and sweaters and not look like a goob. Its probably the only reason I havnt lost any blood yet. 

Ill keep you guys informed on her "progress" you all have been such a wonderful help through these trying first 2 weeks. <3


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## bluemax50 (Apr 3, 2009)

WOW!! After reading all the replies to this message I see I'm not the only one with Puppy aggression problems. I got Sonny my first ever Golden a little over a month ago after 35 years of only Labs and Boy!! what a hand full . He is the most agressive puppy I've ever owned, all he does is chew , growl and bite. Ignoring him does no good as he 's just as content to lay next to you and shred your pants leg or shoe if you turn your back or try to ignor him. Redirectiong his agression to a toy works for only a minute or two then it's back to pants, flesh or bone!!! Even my vet is slightly concerned and I'm now trying to find a puppy class that I can get him in as a last resort. I realize dogs are like people each has their own unique personality and I'll certainly put in all the effort I can to bring this dog back from the dark side but I have to admit I'm starting to have my doubts. I won't have a dog that I can''t control


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

As a general comment, it makes me really sad how many aggressive puppy problems we are seeing. The loving, playful temperament is bedrock & hallmark of the golden, and I can't think of how it keeps getting lost.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

Again, speaking generally, I've noticed that many, if not most, of the pups having problems came from less-than-ideal situations, like BYBs and Pet stores. 
FWIW, our Tessie has been exactly the opposite, your typical "I don't know you but I love you golden." 
She has her bitey puppy moments, but it's 10 minutes a day and it's handled with a stern look and a chewy toy--which is good because she's 45 pounds.
And as you know, she came from a very good breeder who's got a house full of smart, well-adjusted goldens (Grandma was watching football on the couch when we arrived), came from a large litter and stayed there until she was nine weeks old. 
FWIW, while we did wait a while, we didn't pay much more for Tessie than Roxanne's Mom did for Roxanne. 

allen


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## bluemax50 (Apr 3, 2009)

avincent52 said:


> Again, speaking generally, I've noticed that many, if not most, of the pups having problems came from less-than-ideal situations, like BYBs and Pet stores.
> FWIW, our Tessie has been exactly the opposite, your typical "I don't know you but I love you golden."
> She has her bitey puppy moments, but it's 10 minutes a day and it's handled with a stern look and a chewy toy--which is good because she's 45 pounds.
> And as you know, she came from a very good breeder who's got a house full of smart, well-adjusted goldens (Grandma was watching football on the couch when we arrived), came from a large litter and stayed there until she was nine weeks old.
> ...


 
In my case , my Golden came from an amateur breeder who owns both parents. The parents are the most loveable, beautiful dogs!! Both are well trained and the breeder worked hand and hand with their local vet . The pups 9 of them were all well socialized and handled on a daily basis. My dog didn't show these issues for a few weeks after I got him and it's gradully getting worse, hopefully getting him into a class will help because he really is a very smart dog. When he's in a calm mood I have been able to train him to cosistantly follow basic commands like sit, lie down and stay. When the witching hour hits he no longer responds to anything!! he becomers a canine bezerker!!! When he's tired he will lie down and even wants to sit in your lap when he's wide awake he'd rather attempt to eat you!!!


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

bluemax50 said:


> In my case , my Golden came from an amateur breeder who owns both parents. The parents are the most loveable, beautiful dogs!! Both are well trained and the breeder worked hand and hand with their local vet . The pups 9 of them were all well socialized and handled on a daily basis. My dog didn't show these issues for a few weeks after I got him and it's gradully getting worse, hopefully getting him into a class will help because he really is a very smart dog. When he's in a calm mood I have been able to train him to cosistantly follow basic commands like sit, lie down and stay. When the witching hour hits he no longer responds to anything!! he becomers a canine bezerker!!! When he's tired he will lie down and even wants to sit in your lap when he's wide awake he'd rather attempt to eat you!!!



I think you've hit it on the head here, whether you know it or not. TIRED puppy = good puppy. Get him into a class, private lessons, etc. Take him places with you, set up play dates, etc. Get him TIRED. 

My boy is 12 weeks old and runs around like mad about twice a day, barking and talking. He also stuffs everything he can into his mouth during these crazy times - a lot of the same behaviors as yours. But there is no way I would consider him aggressive. Just silly. 

And Ljilly28- I think a lot of this is people mistaking puppy "testing the waters" and puppy play for aggression. True aggression is very rare and TV shows, etc, have popularized the term. I also think "new to goldens" people mistake talking/roo roo-ing as aggression signs, too.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I agree. This puppy sounds like a bratty youngster, not like a dog with faulty temperament.

As far as leash keep-away games, if she grabs it, grab a fun toy of hers and run away, making exciting noises. I bet she comes running after you. Dangle it, squeak it, etc. until she drops the leash to go for it. Say, "Drop! Good girl!" and give her the toy as you take the leash. 

When you try to grab something from her mouth, you activate her instinct for possessiveness and for fun games of keep away. She obviously has strong instincts there, so why not use them to your advantage instead of battling them? You can teach "drop," by the way, with treats too.

In every way you can, turn a problem behavior into an opportunity for positive training. Scolding a dog simply does not work as well as offering them a chance to do something right. Hearing "bad girl" for grabbing the leash will teach her not to do it slowly or not at all. Teach her "drop" in a positive way, however, can turn obeying you into a fun and pleasurable activity.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

bluemax50 said:


> In my case , my Golden came from an amateur breeder who owns both parents. The parents are the most loveable, beautiful dogs!! Both are well trained and the breeder worked hand and hand with their local vet . The pups 9 of them were all well socialized and handled on a daily basis. My dog didn't show these issues for a few weeks after I got him and it's gradully getting worse, hopefully getting him into a class will help because he really is a very smart dog. When he's in a calm mood I have been able to train him to cosistantly follow basic commands like sit, lie down and stay. When the witching hour hits he no longer responds to anything!! he becomers a canine bezerker!!! When he's tired he will lie down and even wants to sit in your lap when he's wide awake he'd rather attempt to eat you!!!


Your dog sound drivey and high energy, which I love in Goldens. That berzerker hour seems to me to be the behavior of a dog who hasn't gotten quite enough exercise during the day. He gets sleepy towards the end of the day, but he still has excess energy, so he takes it all out in a confused, excited mess. It's getting worse over time because he's growing up and having more energy to expend.

As far as the chewing of your pants and some of the other behavior you mention, you're not describing an aggressive dog, but rather one who has too much brain and too much drive to play and hunt for his activity level. He needs an outlet, not discipline. He needs a fetch game or a find game in the backyard or some time in the woods off leash so he can expend that urge to hunt, catch, and chew. He's not getting that, so he's taking out those urges on _you_.

Goldens are hunting dogs. Most of them need either to hunt or to have that hunting drive sublimated into a working game. A field dog needs to bleed off all the energy in his muscles and to work his mind to the max on a regular basis in order to be happy. Even the mellowest Golden has some of that field instinct buried somewhere, and the higher energy dogs become destructive and agitated when they don't have an appropriate outlet for those instincts and that drive.

On the upside, a drivey Golden can be an incredibly rewarding companion if you have an active lifestyle or are interested in making your life more active. They excel at agility, obedience, hunting, fetching, and hiking. Though we don't hunt (I shoot birds with the camera only), we do look for companions who want to work and who live for trail time. They get us out during the week on days when we'd otherwise be too tired and too lazy. I say this to be clear that when I say I think your Golden may be drivey, I'm paying him one of the highest compliments I know. It just means extra responsibility in terms of allowing that drive to come out and be used.


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

Ljilly28 said:


> As a general comment, it makes me really sad how many aggressive puppy problems we are seeing. The loving, playful temperament is bedrock & hallmark of the golden, and I can't think of how it keeps getting lost.


 
Perfectly said and represents exactly how I feel. And even more heartbreaking are when you read the posts about goldens who have bitten humans or attacked other dogs. I have said it before, there are always reasons but in my opinion, absolutely no excuse for goldens who bite. I have had this discussion many times with a dear friend who is a golden breeder, a breeder in the best sense of the word, and she has stressed many times that in her opinion temperament is the hallmark of the breed. She helped me in my quest for my youngest dog, steered me away from some breedings and lines that she knew had aggressive dogs in their pedigrees, took me a while to get him but he was worth the wait. I hope what we are seeing is not a trend because it is truly heartbreaking to hear of so many goldens with temperament issues.


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

I missed this thread when first posted in January but glad to have caught it now. My first Golden boy Sam was from a litter of pups our friends had. They were not Breeders and only had the 1 litter. Sam was the last pup when we picked him and was the most docile animal I've ever met. He had few puppy moments, he never chewed anything or dug holes, he learned all commands quickly and was potty trained by 9 weeks. Needless to say, he spoiled me. 

Ike came from a Breeder who we visited regularly, got to know the litter, and chose Ike because he showed such a mild tempermant. When we brough Ike home after Sam passed, I was mildly concerned that he loved to chew on everything, us included, and had what I've now learned are the zoomies, every night at 7 pm...our witching hour still, and was a bundle of energy that needed direction. The only similarity between Sam and Ike was that they both learned their commands and potty trained very quickly. 

I've since learned that Ike is the norm, an active bundle of curious energy that needs love and consistant direction given with understanding and patience...and well worth it.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

my4goldens said:


> Perfectly said and represents exactly how I feel. And even more heartbreaking are when you read the posts about goldens who have bitten humans or attacked other dogs. I have said it before, there are always reasons but in my opinion, absolutely no excuse for goldens who bite. I have had this discussion many times with a dear friend who is a golden breeder, a breeder in the best sense of the word, and she has stressed many times that in her opinion temperament is the hallmark of the breed. She helped me in my quest for my youngest dog, steered me away from some breedings and lines that she knew had aggressive dogs in their pedigrees, took me a while to get him but he was worth the wait. I hope what we are seeing is not a trend because it is truly heartbreaking to hear of so many goldens with temperament issues.


I agree with you in essence, but I also think that a huge proportion of the time, Goldens who are leash aggressive, dog aggressive, or otherwise dangerous and hard to handle are the products of poor training, poor socialization, and untreated medical problems.

People need to take responsibility for their dogs' behavior. "Bad temperament" is sometimes an easy out for people who haven't stepped up and risen to the challenge of learning how to raise an active dog properly.

I'm not at all saying that unprofessional and unethical breeders give enough thought to temperament. They don't. They bred willy nilly to make dogs they can sell, not dogs who are ideally suited to become loving companions. I'm just saying that inexperience or outright bad training on the part of the owner can bring out insecurity and therefore aggression in even the most even-tempered animal.


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## GoldenOwner12 (Jun 18, 2008)

Shelley came from a registered breeder who did all the clearances she isn't exactly the best dog she has issues. Shelley was born and raised outdoors in a cement kennel run. She hardly got any human contact,didn't get feed much at all, She never got to experienced the feel of dirt,grass,sniff plants,she never got soft bedding or even toys to play with. So now we have a dog that still likes to dig,chew up soft bedding,will not really play with toys. They say what ever there most around at the age 8-12 weeks is what they bond to the most. Well Shelley was around other dogs all the time at that age so her bond is more towards other dogs then humans. 

When i got her at 14 weeks old she was very timid had her tail inbetween her legs took her a week to give a slight wag. She seemed like she was straving and still does now at 13 months old. She wasn't even lead trained,didn't know any commands, the slight sudden movement made her pee out of fright. It took me a month to get her to accept the lead (I think Einstein helped alot too),fully wagging her tail. I'm still working on her being timid, Sometimes she goes weeks and i think oh good she is finally stopped being timid then all of a sudden bam she goes down hill. Shelley is not the type of dog that you can raise your voice to not even a little. If she has did something naughty you have to say naughty girl in a normal tone if you don't she will pee. It only took Shelley a week or 2 to learn sit,drop,stay and come, I started straight away with wait eg telling her to wait before i feed her. I don't think Shelley could ever become a threapy dog as she is just to timid and skitish. If Shelley digs or chews something up its best to completely ignore her or say naughty in a normal voice. I don't think she was brought up very good at the breeders. She is still very rough with Einstein he can growl,show teeth,peg her down and still she is straight back at him.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

GoldenOwner12 said:


> Shelley came from a registered breeder who did all the clearances she isn't exactly the best dog she has issues. Shelley was born and raised outdoors in a cement kennel run. She hardly got any human contact,didn't get feed much at all, She never got to experienced the feel of dirt,grass,sniff plants,she never got soft bedding or even toys to play with. So now we have a dog that still likes to dig,chew up soft bedding,will not really play with toys. They say what ever there most around at the age 8-12 weeks is what they bond to the most. Well Shelley was around other dogs all the time at that age so her bond is more towards other dogs then humans.
> 
> When i got her at 14 weeks old she was very timid had her tail inbetween her legs took her a week to give a slight wag. She seemed like she was straving and still does now at 13 months old. She wasn't even lead trained,didn't know any commands, the slight sudden movement made her pee out of fright. It took me a month to get her to accept the lead (I think Einstein helped alot too),fully wagging her tail. I'm still working on her being timid, Sometimes she goes weeks and i think oh good she is finally stopped being timid then all of a sudden bam she goes down hill. Shelley is not the type of dog that you can raise your voice to not even a little. If she has did something naughty you have to say naughty girl in a normal tone if you don't she will pee. It only took Shelley a week or 2 to learn sit,drop,stay and come, I started straight away with wait eg telling her to wait before i feed her. I don't think Shelley could ever become a threapy dog as she is just to timid and skitish. If Shelley digs or chews something up its best to completely ignore her or say naughty in a normal voice. I don't think she was brought up very good at the breeders. She is still very rough with Einstein he can growl,show teeth,peg her down and still she is straight back at him.


On the up side though.... dang, she's adorable!!!!! I hope she continues to improve.


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## GoldenOwner12 (Jun 18, 2008)

Shelley is one gorgeous looking dog very loving she has just strated to bond more closely with me now. Now she looks up to me for everything just yesterday i was outfront she could see me and wouldn't keep her eyes off me. She is doing great at obedience now if only i can get her to do the stand command.


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

tippykayak said:


> I agree with you in essence, but I also think that a huge proportion of the time, Goldens who are leash aggressive, dog aggressive, or otherwise dangerous and hard to handle are the products of poor training, poor socialization, and untreated medical problems.
> 
> .


I agree with you on this too. Know someone with a nice dog, little too much for her to handle. She let him get away with too much as a pup, now it is manifesting as very undesirable behavior. Probably if she had dealt with it properly as a pup she wouldn't have the issues she is having now.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

my4goldens said:


> I agree with you on this too. Know someone with a nice dog, little too much for her to handle. She let him get away with too much as a pup, now it is manifesting as very undesirable behavior. Probably if she had dealt with it properly as a pup she wouldn't have the issues she is having now.


What's extra sad is that a dog with few boundaries and not enough training is a pain and a brat and occasionally exhibits dangerous behavior. A dog that's been exposed to bad, negative "training," though can be made truly dangerous and aggressive. Sometimes, bad training is worse than none.


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## CaptCooke (Jun 3, 2009)

*reassuring*



gabbys mom said:


> I think you've hit it on the head here, whether you know it or not. TIRED puppy = good puppy. Get him into a class, private lessons, etc. Take him places with you, set up play dates, etc. Get him TIRED.
> 
> My boy is 12 weeks old and runs around like mad about twice a day, barking and talking. He also stuffs everything he can into his mouth during these crazy times - a lot of the same behaviors as yours. But there is no way I would consider him aggressive. Just silly.
> 
> And Ljilly28- I think a lot of this is people mistaking puppy "testing the waters" and puppy play for aggression. True aggression is very rare and TV shows, etc, have popularized the term. I also think "new to goldens" people mistake talking/roo roo-ing as aggression signs, too.


this was wonderful to read. My puppy Joy does exactly this at 11 weeks. She is in her cujoe mode and then suddenly she sits or lays right beside me and says thanks for letting me have fun. People usually walk by at the calm point and say what a calm Golden..... I say where were you five minutes ago.....


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## bb'smom (Jan 3, 2009)

*Hand Bite*

What's a"hand bite"? I've got a beautiful, feisty 10 week old (Buddy) who is quite mouthy.

Just got the C.Milan Puppy DVD-plan to watch it as soon as we have time(tonight).

The benefit of this being the fourth gr puppy experience for us--is that we know it is a phase and we KNOW it is all worth it!

Gerrianne


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## Tinsley (Nov 11, 2008)

Funnily enough I read an article in a dog mag where the breed profile was Golden Retriever just the other day. I'll type out a chunk of it which I think shows how people often expect the golden to be the perfect dog right from the off, as opposed to letting him/her grow up first:

"The typical golden retriever is calm, naturally intelligent and biddable, with an exceptional eagerness to please. Typically, golden retrievers are rather unruly as puppies and may chew and retrieve anything in sight. By the time they reach maturity however, they will have become active and fun-loving animals, with the exceptionally patient demeanour befitting a dog bred to sit quietly for hours when hunting blind. They are exceptionally trainable but it is important to note that harsh training methods will cause a golden to 'shut down', therefore positive enforcement is much more effective."

I have to say before I got Roo, many owners of GR's gave me the impression Roo would behave as patiently as a much older and more mature golden right from the off. Puppies will be puppies and I think there is a great lot of misunderstanding in that they should never ever bite etc, its just so natural for them. To this day I still think Roo was a puppy who really, REALLY liked to push boundaries, and sure he suffers with selective hearing at the moment, but he is very obedient and will do whatever I ask, providing there is not a more interesting smell within a 300m radius, lol! I couldn't expect any more from him and patience really is the key, no matter how unbearable it is at the time, I could have handed Roo back to his breeder many a time!


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