# BITING, NIPPING, SNAPPING.... how to stop this???



## Lucky's mom

This information was a real life-saver for me when dealing with Lucky's rabid and constant and bloodying biting.
http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm

The key is training, and firm but gentle correction. Being overly physical can get their adrenylene going making it worse....and boy I know about that!

It does take patience and substituing a toy DOES WORK. YOu just may not see the benefit til your pup is 14 to 16 weeks. I'll NEVER forget when Lucky started to bite me...stopped cold...turned around and grabbed a toy and ran to me with it. It was quite the experience where I knew something "clicked". He was 14 or 15 weeks old.


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## BeauShel

Hello and Welcome,
Your puppy is normal. If you ever look at a pile of puppies playing they bite each other. And especially retrievers will do it more, because they retrieve with their mouth. You have to keep putting toys in her mouth when she starts to bite you and also use a high squel like a puppy would do when they get nipped by the puppy. 
I have to say that I VERY strongly disagree with your breeder on correcting the puppy by grabbing her by the scruff, rolling her over and saying "no". To me, that would make her act out even more like you said and also it is like playing to her. 
Give her the toys and yelping. You can also get some bitter apple spray and spray it in her mouth in the back when she bites. 
We have all been thru this and it will get better. And I bet everyone here can show you our puppy bite scars. LOL When she is playing with her toys give her lots of praise. Play tug of war with her to encourage the biting on toys and not you. Since she is starting the teething, take a wet washcloth and freeze it and let her chew on that and her gums will feel better. Make sure to put a towel under her because of it drip. Also you can freeze carrots to help with the teething. It will keep her busy and give you a little break. Some people like the antlers that you can buy. 
Good luck it will get better and if you go to the puppy section there is alot of great information there that will help.


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## nictastic

she sounds just like my little vampire ... and what everyone has suggested really does work (slowly) you really do have to be consistent tho as well... even my youngest tells her her off for biting him and gives her a toy. 
Also i used the time out which was suggested by a member and she will come back in calm and not bite for a few mins or so x


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## Phillyfisher

I do think your pup is trying to establish its place in your pack, however, I disagree with your breeder's methods for dealing with it. Tucker was the same way when he came home. We established order by making him work for everything- NILF. (Nothing in Life is Free- just google NILF) When he starts getting mouthy now when he wants to play, I immediately go into training mode- making him sit, down, wait, give paw, etc. It distracts him from what he was doing, and reminds him that I am the boss. Tucker became less nippy once he figured out his pack position. At first, he nipped at all of us, then just my wife and kids, then just the kids, then just my youngest. It took my youngest a good 4 to 6 weeks to establish his position above Tucker. I have to give my son a lot of credit- it was hard work for him and he did not give up, and now Tucker listens to him just like everyone else in the house. BTW- my hands were red-raw for those first few weeks!


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## Leia

This was one question I was going to ask about. My Leia is about 16 weeks old right now and most of the time is well behaved. At least once a day though she will get snappy and bite "at" me. Most of the time she doesn't even touch me but she will growl a little when she does this. Usually when I'm sitting on the couch trying to watch something she will do this. I've been standing up and just walking towards her/ over her and this seems to work. I tried the toys, the firm "No", the holding down method and none of those phased her. But when I stand up and walk towards her she stops instantly.


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## La224

So, how would one know, when this is "normal puppy behavior," and when the puppy is actually trying to establish his place in the pack? Or is it one and the same?


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## mylissyk

La224 said:


> So, how would one know, when this is "normal puppy behavior," and when the puppy is actually trying to establish his place in the pack? Or is it one and the same?


Puppies don't try to establish pack order with people. Dogs do not think that way. It is an outdated and incorrect idealogy. They are just puppies, doing what puppies do. It's the way they play with other puppies and other dogs. 

If the level of mouthing is too much and you aren't comfortable with it, you can certainly teach your puppy other things to do with their mouth. 

-Physically put a toy in his mouth when he starts and encourage him to play with it.
-Teach him to "Kiss" instead of bite, put peanut butter on your hand and when he licks say "kiss kiss", practice until he knows kiss means lick. then when he starts to bite say "kiss kiss" and he will eventually learn to lick instead of bite.
-Get up and walk away when teeth touch skin
-pick him up and put him in his crate when teeth touch skin

It will take a while for the puppy to learn, he is just a baby, but be consistent, be patient, and he will learn


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## goldlover68

All pup's are "land sharks"....good training information provided above....the dog is still a baby and will learn slowly, but they do learn....


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## DebScroc

I am so very glad I googled the biting! It brought me here, I've registered, and learned I'm not alone. Bodie is my second Golden pup, Cooper ( my first ), NEVER behaved like this. I was actually afraid something was terribly wrong &#55357;&#56883; 
So thank you to whomever created this forumn, I will be a regular I think!!
Deb


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## SableHart

Sable is a biter too! She's gotten better with training, but still loves to bite at us when she's excited/playing. It's gotten better though, and hopefully as she gets a little older and settles down more and with more training it will stop.


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## thorbreafortuna

Also, your pup is at about the age when the "Land Shark" stage often reaches its peak of intensity. Weeks 14 to 16 were the worst for mine, and I have noticed a lot of people reporting that. Arm yourself with patience, toys, training and treats, and know that there is light at the end of the tunnel. I would be lying if I said that it will be all over at week 16, but it typically gets a lot more manageable.


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## Seasider62

My GR is 14 months now and is still jumping up his lead on a walk and I am finding it very difficult to control him at these times. This has been an ongoing issue since he was a puppy. I have tried the figure of eight lead, the gentle leader halti and now have a half chain lead attached to the halti. Some walks are good without problems but other times I have to turn back after 10 minutes as I can't hold him as he is so strong when he rears up. I can't find a trigger to this behaviour.


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## GR1NC

*Golden Retriever Puppies*

We just spent $1200 on a pure bred Golden Retriever (GR) puppy and it is the same age as you posted and has the same exact issue. This is our first dog ever. I like dogs, well at least smart one.

I now personally believe that GR's lack sufficient intelligence and I would never purchase one again. I have seen several dogs in my day and this one is by far the dumbest. It has every issue a dog can possibly have and then some more. The only positive is that its cute, but I am sorry to say that is not enough. I bought this dog for my nine year old daughter, and she adores it. Guess who feeds its and puts up with this horrific biting.

All I can say is I don't want to have the patience any more and if I could I would take it back to the breeder in a second and if you don't have kids I would take it back now and buy a dog with some wits. I would not have second thoughts, but I have a nine year old. What a challenge. If this dog acts like this past four years old, it mysteriously won't make it to five.


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## 1oldparson

Dear GR1NC,
With all due respect, your puppy doesn't lack sufficient intelligence - it's a puppy. That puppy needs you to teach it with love and patience, like you taught your child.


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## Eclipse

GR1NC - I would highly suggest taking classes or having a trainer come to your house to show you how to deal with the biting. Since it's your first puppy, you may find it helpful. The puppy is still a baby and it hasn't learned what it can and can't do yet. My one and a half year old Golden is extremely smart, but she's a handful and is still a work in progress. She still has a lot of puppy energy to contend with, but I can see the potential she has. She blew me away with how quickly she learned her basic commands when she first came home, and continues to amaze me with her eagerness in her Rally and Agility classes. Don't give up on your dog yet. I know how frustrating they can get, but patience and training goes a long way.


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## mylissyk

GR1NC said:


> We just spent $1200 on a pure bred Golden Retriever (GR) puppy and it is the same age as you posted and has the same exact issue. This is our first dog ever. I like dogs, well at least smart one.
> 
> I now personally believe that GR's lack sufficient intelligence and I would never purchase one again. I have seen several dogs in my day and this one is by far the dumbest. It has every issue a dog can possibly have and then some more. The only positive is that its cute, but I am sorry to say that is not enough. I bought this dog for my nine year old daughter, and she adores it. Guess who feeds its and puts up with this horrific biting.
> 
> All I can say is I don't want to have the patience any more and if I could I would take it back to the breeder in a second and if you don't have kids I would take it back now and buy a dog with some wits. I would not have second thoughts, but I have a nine year old. What a challenge. If this dog acts like this past four years old, it mysteriously won't make it to five.



If this is your first dog ever, then how do you have any knowledge with which to judge the intelligence or lack of with this puppy? Respectfully, you don't have the intelligence to raise a puppy. Take her back to the breeder now while she is small enough they can find a good home for her.

If you bought this puppy expecting your 9 year old daughter would be the one taking care of her and being responsible for her, you don't have sufficient intelligence to know that children can not be expected to be responsible for raising a puppy.

Take the puppy back to the breeder before your lack of patience causes her harm.


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## Cpc1972

Maybe you should return it so it can go to a proper home.


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## Cpc1972

Goldens are known to be landsharks. Did you not do your research. Second nine yearolds are not responsible enough to raise a puppy. This puppy needs classes and training. Please return before your anger hurts this dog. If you dont want the puppy stage you should of adopted a older dog.


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## solinvictus

Welcome to the forum GR1NC. If your puppy is the same age as the original posters was then you need to realize that you pup has been on earth for only 91 days. Right now your pup is following it's natural instincts to survive in the world. The pup has to be taught how to live in your home. It takes a lot of work to train/teach a puppy to be a well mannered dog. Goldens are pretty smart and if you reward the pup for all the good behaviours you like over time those behaviours become good habits. Goldens are very mouthy dogs. They have been genetically programed that way so they will want to retrieve. They explore their world with the mouths and nose. If this is your first dog/puppy I would suggest you get into puppy and then a basic class so that you have someone available to help guide you as you learn to train your pup. 

At 9 years old your daughter can do a lot to help out but the responsibility does have to rest on your shoulders. If you are willing to put in the hard work your daughter will have a fantastic learning experience on how much love and effort it takes to raise a pup into the dog of yours and her dreams.

If you are willing to take up the challenge think of it as a wild roller coaster ride through the first year to year and one half of the pups life. At the end you come out of it with an awesome adult golden to love for years to come.

If you are not committed to doing the hard work please consider getting back in touch with your breeder and returning the pup.

I do hope you will stick around look at the puppy section of the forum to see that we have all been there at one time or another and those of us with older dogs have made it through for the most part.

What is your pups name?


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## LUCKYme

GR1NC said:


> We just spent $1200 on a pure bred Golden Retriever (GR) puppy and it is the same age as you posted and has the same exact issue. This is our first dog ever. I like dogs, well at least smart one.
> 
> I now personally believe that GR's lack sufficient intelligence and I would never purchase one again. I have seen several dogs in my day and this one is by far the dumbest. It has every issue a dog can possibly have and then some more. The only positive is that its cute, but I am sorry to say that is not enough. I bought this dog for my nine year old daughter, and she adores it. Guess who feeds its and puts up with this horrific biting.
> 
> All I can say is I don't want to have the patience any more and if I could I would take it back to the breeder in a second and if you don't have kids I would take it back now and buy a dog with some wits. I would not have second thoughts, but I have a nine year old. What a challenge. If this dog acts like this past four years old, it mysteriously won't make it to five.


Goldens are extremely smart dogs, puppies (in general) are difficult. I will ask you to please refrain from judging your poor pup before he has been given a fair opportunity to be successful in your family. I would hate to see you miss out on the love of a Golden, they are truly special. If you honestly are unhappy with the match then consider rehoming. Losing your patience with a puppy is not helpful and can be damaging to your progression in training (let alone the trust you should be building). A nine year old child is not capable of caring for or raising a dog. I think you know that. Your threat of the puppy mysteriously going missing is not welcomed nor laughed about.


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## Chritty

GR1NC said:


> We just spent $1200 on a pure bred Golden Retriever (GR) puppy and it is the same age as you posted and has the same exact issue. This is our first dog ever. I like dogs, well at least smart one.
> 
> 
> 
> I now personally believe that GR's lack sufficient intelligence and I would never purchase one again. I have seen several dogs in my day and this one is by far the dumbest. It has every issue a dog can possibly have and then some more. The only positive is that its cute, but I am sorry to say that is not enough. I bought this dog for my nine year old daughter, and she adores it. Guess who feeds its and puts up with this horrific biting.
> 
> 
> 
> All I can say is I don't want to have the patience any more and if I could I would take it back to the breeder in a second and if you don't have kids I would take it back now and buy a dog with some wits. I would not have second thoughts, but I have a nine year old. What a challenge. If this dog acts like this past four years old, it mysteriously won't make it to five.



Troll perhaps?


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## Tennyson

AshleyR said:


> Our 13 week old golden retriever Tessa is extremely smart and has surpassed our expectations in the basic training department, although she has a very bad habit of BITING us!
> 
> I know that she is teething right now and that is most likely the explanation for it - but she doesn't just bite to "chew". She actually snaps at us to get our attention (not agressively, playfully). When we walk around the house she nips at our pant legs and ankles. When we do give her attention, rather than playing with the toys we give her, she prefers to nip our hands and arms (or any other body part she can get in her mouth!)
> 
> From the day we got her we have NEVER played with our hands with her. We have never encouraged play biting at all, but all she wants to do is bite us! Her teeth are extremely sharp and she has actually caused me to bleed a couple of times because she bites so hard.
> 
> I would like to shrug this off as "teething", but in the last few days we have noticed that she has gotten a bit aggressive when we've "punished" her for biting. Our breeder told us that she is trying to establish a "pecking order" with us and is trying to show us that she is the boss. His advice was to grab her by the scruff, roll her over on the floor, stare her in the eye and say "NO!!!" He said we need to teach her that we are the boss. When we do this she gets very angry with us and rebels as soon as we let her go (and bites harder!) We have been doing this along with giving her one of her toys to chew on instead (and praising her for chewing it) but nothing seems to be working well.
> 
> My husband and I are almost at our wits end with this biting. We can't sit on the couch and watch tv because she is constantly nipping at us. We can't even play with her as much as we'd like to because as I said above - instead of biting her TOYS, she just bites us!!
> 
> People keep telling me "this is normal", but I'm starting to really wonder if it is. I have no idea what else to do to stop her from biting us.
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions???


It's just a short lived phase. My BB Mick was terrible with biting. A good friend came over to see him when he was a pup. Sat on the flour with him (dumb) and he jumped up and pulled one of her hoop earring right down through her ear lobe. Blood everywhere including on Mick. Sucker really dripped a lot of blood. Mick was running around with that hoop in his mouth. 
They out grow that behavior.


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## Buddy's mom forever

GR1NC said:


> We just spent $1200 on a pure bred Golden Retriever (GR) puppy and it is the same age as you posted and has the same exact issue. This is our first dog ever. I like dogs, well at least smart one.
> 
> I now personally believe that GR's lack sufficient intelligence and I would never purchase one again. I have seen several dogs in my day and this one is by far the dumbest. It has every issue a dog can possibly have and then some more. The only positive is that its cute, but I am sorry to say that is not enough. I bought this dog for my nine year old daughter, and she adores it. Guess who feeds its and puts up with this horrific biting.
> 
> All I can say is I don't want to have the patience any more and if I could I would take it back to the breeder in a second and if you don't have kids I would take it back now and buy a dog with some wits. I would not have second thoughts, but I have a nine year old. What a challenge. If this dog acts like this past four years old, it mysteriously won't make it to five.


Holy Moly, it is so nice to have you here! 

Right place to be, things are working just the way they should be.
You will get many great advices from people who know what are they talking about to overcome all issues you are dealing with right now. 
It is not question do you want or not to have patience this dog came into your life to teach you how to have it . You said "past 4 years", just give yourself half of it and you will never regret :no:.
Your statement "that GRs lack sufficient intelligence", stay with us, get to know us and our dogs and you will "apologize" to this forum for your wrong thinking.
BTW your nine year old daughter is very smart kid.
What is the dog's name?


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## Chritty

Tennyson said:


> It's just a short lived phase. My BB Mick was terrible with biting. A good friend came over to see him when he was a pup. Sat on the flour with him (dumb) and he jumped up and pulled one of her hoop earring right down through her ear lobe. Blood everywhere including on Mick. Sucker really dripped a lot of blood. Mick was running around with that hoop in his mouth.
> They out grow that behavior.



Just as an FYI this thread is 7 years old


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## Marcus

Now I really want to know the outcome of the original post


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## AmberSunrise

hmmm, consider returning the puppy to the breeder so a proper home can be found. 

Goldens don't generally lack intelligence, but that very intelligence can lead to all kinds of mischief and if their owner expects perfection - well it just isn't a good fit and your puppy deserves a chance at a great life. Patience, training and love will see a golden through to a wonderful life but a commitment must be made.



GR1NC said:


> We just spent $1200 on a pure bred Golden Retriever (GR) puppy and it is the same age as you posted and has the same exact issue. This is our first dog ever. I like dogs, well at least smart one.
> 
> I now personally believe that GR's lack sufficient intelligence and I would never purchase one again. I have seen several dogs in my day and this one is by far the dumbest. It has every issue a dog can possibly have and then some more. The only positive is that its cute, but I am sorry to say that is not enough. I bought this dog for my nine year old daughter, and she adores it. Guess who feeds its and puts up with this horrific biting.
> 
> All I can say is I don't want to have the patience any more and if I could I would take it back to the breeder in a second and if you don't have kids I would take it back now and buy a dog with some wits. I would not have second thoughts, but I have a nine year old. What a challenge. If this dog acts like this past four years old, it mysteriously won't make it to five.


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## Buddy's mom forever

Chritty said:


> Just as an FYI this thread is 7 years old


I've noticed last night this thread is old but our land sharks did not change much. I am giving GR1NC a credit of being just overwhelmed in a moment.
My Buddy, a dog I did not want to and was also brought home for my daughter, was a sweet angel even as a puppy. If I did not join to this forum at the time we lost him and read about those little land sharks I have to tell you for sure I would think that something went wrong with my Charlie that's how bad his nipping and biting was and I was the main victim in our household.


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## Keleigh

GR1NC said:


> We just spent $1200 on a pure bred Golden Retriever (GR) puppy and it is the same age as you posted and has the same exact issue. This is our first dog ever. I like dogs, well at least smart one.
> 
> I now personally believe that GR's lack sufficient intelligence and I would never purchase one again. I have seen several dogs in my day and this one is by far the dumbest. It has every issue a dog can possibly have and then some more. The only positive is that its cute, but I am sorry to say that is not enough. I bought this dog for my nine year old daughter, and she adores it. Guess who feeds its and puts up with this horrific biting.
> 
> All I can say is I don't want to have the patience any more and if I could I would take it back to the breeder in a second and if you don't have kids I would take it back now and buy a dog with some wits. I would not have second thoughts, but I have a nine year old. What a challenge. If this dog acts like this past four years old, it mysteriously won't make it to five.


If this is your first dog ever, you will need to contact a professional training or enroll in classes for assistance. It sounds like you expect the puppy to learn a command and obey it at all times. It does not work that way. 

You say you like "smart dogs" but guess what...dogs are born just like children. Completely clueless and not knowing squat. They need to learn. Smart dogs are smart because they've been taught and trained. Training continues for months and months and needs to be continually reinforced. A couple of training sessions here and there will not do, for any breed.

Golden's seek mental and physical stimulation, if you don't give it to them, they'll find it another way - which probably isn't desirable to you.

If your dog has issues, it's probably because you never properly trained it and never reinforced good behavior therefore it never learned the correct way to act. 

You cannot get a puppy and just "feed and put up with it". It doesn't work that way. You also cannot get a puppy and expect your 9 year old daughter who cannot even take care of herself to take on full responsibility of care and training for a puppy. 

For the sake of the dog, take it back to the breeder and have it rehomed with someone who actually WANTS a dog and will be provide the dog with the necessary training and stimulation it needs. Don't keep the dog just because you have kids. You're the adult and you need to be the primary caregiver for the pup, if you cannot and do not want to provide that, rehome the dog.


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## GR1NC

We appreciate most contributor's advice. If I were alone I would return the dog as recommended by many - NP. There are two variables here. The trainer (or in some of your mindsets) "a good home" and the trainee (the dog). The main reference we are using to train is Valerie Foss's "The Ultimate GR" book (green cover). The techniques in her book do not work with this particular GR. I assume she provides credible and feasible approaches, but this GR is not receiving that data, and her social window closes in 3-5 weeks. At her current rate of growth she'll never get there. Next thing ya know, she'll be chasing Good Years.

We (adults in the house) are all college educated and children have their pedigrees too. The house is hunky dory (quasi Cleaver-esque), but the dog is not catching on. We can teach, we have patience, and there is a lot of love and all that squishy peace and hugs stuff. 

We have employed a trainer to stop by Monday to do an assessment before we return the dog. I will never buy another GR, unless this guy finds her inner GR. If I had to rate GRs on a scale of 1 - 10 as a family dog, I would give it a 2, because she is so cute. I wanted to reply to the forum post to let the poster know she is not alone in the "bad" GR corner. Sure, I assume most GRs are great, but that poster and my family must have just picked a bad apple. Some dogs win championships and are loving, but some dig holes. Ours definitely digs a lot of holes.


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## Anon-2130948gsoni

Return the puppy. This isn't a "bad purchase," this is living, breathing, animal and if there's one thing I know for sure after owning dogs for 25 years, it's that no one size fits all and just because your puppy has "failed" one training protocol says nothing about the puppy but it's quite accurate in diagnosing that you don't have the time, attitude, or patience to raise one happily or successfully. Many people don't...puppies are a major, major commitment. They're not a science experiment...and there aren't two variables, there are hundreds. Genetics, age, personality, birth order, pack order, health, rest, nutrition, stress, climate, home environment, chemical exposure, vaccine status, socialization, other family members, where you live...a dog is not test subject A where you apply stimulus B and get a consistent outcome. 

This never ends well and the longer you have the puppy the more unfair you're being to everyone, including your daughter.


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## Cpc1972

This is really sad. How old is this puppy.


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## Jesse'sGirl7407

GR1NC said:


> We appreciate most contributor's advice. If I were alone I would return the dog as recommended by many - NP. There are two variables here. The trainer (or in some of your mindsets) "a good home" and the trainee (the dog). The main reference we are using to train is Valerie Foss's "The Ultimate GR" book (green cover). The techniques in her book do not work with this particular GR. I assume she provides credible and feasible approaches, but this GR is not receiving that data, and her social window closes in 3-5 weeks. At her current rate of growth she'll never get there. Next thing ya know, she'll be chasing Good Years.
> 
> We (adults in the house) are all college educated and children have their pedigrees too. The house is hunky dory (quasi Cleaver-esque), but the dog is not catching on. We can teach, we have patience, and there is a lot of love and all that squishy peace and hugs stuff.
> 
> We have employed a trainer to stop by Monday to do an assessment before we return the dog. I will never buy another GR, unless this guy finds her inner GR. If I had to rate GRs on a scale of 1 - 10 as a family dog, I would give it a 2, because she is so cute. I wanted to reply to the forum post to let the poster know she is not alone in the "bad" GR corner. Sure, I assume most GRs are great, but that poster and my family must have just picked a bad apple. Some dogs win championships and are loving, but some dig holes. Ours definitely digs a lot of holes.


Starting to think this is a troll, but if not, please return the puppy. You clearly have no idea what you are doing and are not willing to learn. Let that sweet girl find a home that is willing to work with her.


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## Cpc1972

I think we will return chloe. She has bite marks on me and my moms hands. She wouldn't stay out of the flower beds. She gets in the pond. Jk


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## mylissyk

GR1NC said:


> We appreciate most contributor's advice. If I were alone I would return the dog as recommended by many - NP. There are two variables here. The trainer (or in some of your mindsets) "a good home" and the trainee (the dog). The main reference we are using to train is Valerie Foss's "The Ultimate GR" book (green cover). The techniques in her book do not work with this particular GR. I assume she provides credible and feasible approaches, but this GR is not receiving that data, and her social window closes in 3-5 weeks. At her current rate of growth she'll never get there. Next thing ya know, she'll be chasing Good Years.
> 
> We (adults in the house) are all college educated and children have their pedigrees too. The house is hunky dory (quasi Cleaver-esque), but the dog is not catching on. We can teach, we have patience, and there is a lot of love and all that squishy peace and hugs stuff.
> 
> We have employed a trainer to stop by Monday to do an assessment before we return the dog. I will never buy another GR, unless this guy finds her inner GR. If I had to rate GRs on a scale of 1 - 10 as a family dog, I would give it a 2, because she is so cute. I wanted to reply to the forum post to let the poster know she is not alone in the "bad" GR corner. Sure, I assume most GRs are great, but that poster and my family must have just picked a bad apple. Some dogs win championships and are loving, but some dig holes. Ours definitely digs a lot of holes.


How old is this puppy? Does she have a name?

Since you have never had a dog before, I can tell you unequivocally, without any doubt, you absolutely do not know what you are doing, and you absolutely do not know what the puppies are actually like. If your puppy is not catching on it is YOU that lacks intelligence, or at least lacks the knowledge necessary to train a puppy. 

Instead of assuming the puppy is dumb, when you point your finger at her, take a look at where the other fingers are pointed - right back at you.

I would make a bet that your puppy is 100% normal, exactly like every other puppy her age. 

Read through the Puppy Under a Year section of this forum and you will find literally THOUSANDS of threads from people with new puppies complaining, asking for help, and wondering if there is something wrong with their puppy. NONE of those puppies had anything wrong with them, they were all 100% normal puppies, and grew into wonderful, loving, cherished family members - But only because their owners took the time to educate themselves and properly train their puppy.

Puppies are no different than human children, they are born knowing nothing and have to be taught everything you want them to know. Would you call a 1 year human child lacking intelligence if they can't speak English yet? You are asking the puppy to learn a new language, they don't come knowing English or even human behavior. How long does it take human child to learn to speak in complete sentences, read and write, do math? 

How did your children learn all those things? You sent them to school, with teachers who were trained to teach children. Why would you do less for a dog? 

Get a good trainer to come, sign up for training classes and take the puppy and invest the time and energy that puppy deserves so she can learn what you want her to learn. 

If you won't commit to doing the training EVERY dog needs and deserves, then regardless of the fact your child wants the dog, you need to be a responsible adult and return it to the breeder.


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## mylissyk

One more thing. If you are having a trainer come, TAKE THEIR ADVICE


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## rabernet

He said that the puppy is the same age as the OP's, which at the time of the post in 2008 was 13 weeks old. He said he posted to let her know she's not alone. Would be nice if she still participated and shared how her 7 year old dog is now doing. 

I really feel that with the attitude he is projecting, it's best to return the pup. He's already made his judgement about the puppy - not much is going to change that. 

Return the pup - and consider rescuing an adult dog from your local shelter instead. At least that way - you can know the temperment and "intelligence" of the dog right off the bat. I really feel sorry for that puppy - she deserves a home that loves and understands that she's a baby - learning her way in this world.


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## Coopsmom

GR1NC said:


> We appreciate most contributor's advice. If I were alone I would return the dog as recommended by many - NP. There are two variables here. The trainer (or in some of your mindsets) "a good home" and the trainee (the dog). The main reference we are using to train is Valerie Foss's "The Ultimate GR" book (green cover). The techniques in her book do not work with this particular GR. I assume she provides credible and feasible approaches, but this GR is not receiving that data, and her social window closes in 3-5 weeks. At her current rate of growth she'll never get there. Next thing ya know, she'll be chasing Good Years.
> 
> We (adults in the house) are all college educated and children have their pedigrees too. The house is hunky dory (quasi Cleaver-esque), but the dog is not catching on. We can teach, we have patience, and there is a lot of love and all that squishy peace and hugs stuff.
> 
> We have employed a trainer to stop by Monday to do an assessment before we return the dog. I will never buy another GR, unless this guy finds her inner GR. If I had to rate GRs on a scale of 1 - 10 as a family dog, I would give it a 2, because she is so cute. I wanted to reply to the forum post to let the poster know she is not alone in the "bad" GR corner. Sure, I assume most GRs are great, but that poster and my family must have just picked a bad apple. Some dogs win championships and are loving, but some dig holes. Ours definitely digs a lot of holes.


you are going to "rate" an entire breed of dog based on just your personal experience? seems pretty unfair but I'm not getting a sense that you have any "love" or attachment to the puppy so agree with others that you should consider returning the puppy to the breeder.

You mentioned using a book by Foss for training. It looks like her most recent book is from 2003? I am not familiar with how she discusses training a dog but some of her methods may be outdated. 

How much research did you do about the breed before making this purchase? What else have you read about raising/training a puppy? Have you discussed the issue with your breeder? Did you purchase from a reputable breeder? If your puppy is digging a lot of holes, he/she is likely bored and really shouldn't be outside (or anywhere) unsupervised for long periods of time.

You have received a fair amount of feedback here re: your problem. I hope that you will consider all of it and do what's best for the puppy.


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## Marcus

13 weeks?
If that's the case then I feel for you we all went through this stage. 

And trust us, it is just that a stage, like a growing baby they go through stages of terrible behaviour, out did and still does

It does get better. They grow out of it

My arms have healed and I've almost blocked out what that stage was like

here's mine as I type this he is eating a pile of bark he dragged into the house










As much as you've read about Goldens being the best dog ever, they take time and invested training to get to that stage like all dogs

I hope you stick it out, you will be rewarded 10 fold

We've all wanted to hand them back at some point during the biting faze


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## Katduf

I hope you return the puppy. You do not deserve him. From everything you've said, it seems that it is not the puppy that lacks intelligence. This is the most direct comment I have ever made on this forum, but your incredible lack of insight, empathy coupled with a know it all attitude left no room for niceties. And as far as implying that your puppy would not make it much further in life is heartless and disgusting. Return the puppy. Not for your sake but for his.


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## Coco's Mom

Please return the puppy ASAP.


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## Marcus

Now now. Everyone has a vent on here about coping. Especially with puppies. 

I know that did. 

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt as its his only post. I hope I'm not proven wrong


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## Cpc1972

This person posted a second post on page three that is not kind. This is more then puppy venting.


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## rabernet

GR1NC said:


> If this dog acts like this past four years old, it mysteriously won't make it to five.


This is the part that bothers me the most about the first post they wrote. Whether said in frustration or not, we can't know for sure, but if there's that much frustration at 13 weeks, I can't see it getting better for them or the pup.


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## Marcus

I read that as a joke. Like how your parents always threatening to turn the car around. 

Emotion is hard to convey in text form 

Hopefully after his meeting with the trainer he'll have a change of heart


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## Sally's Mom

Wow, pup should be returned if this is not a troll. Puppies are annoying, time consuming,sometimes hard to house train, active, etc..


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## DebScroc

*Speechless*

I need to be very careful what I say in this post. GR1NC makes me very angry and after the second post I don't think anyone made a mistake about the attitude in the first one. 

if you go back to Jan/Feb of this year I posted about my 12 week old (approx.) puppy, Bodie. Well, he's now just under 6 months. The nipping has mostly stopped, the snapping still remains and much less biting. Most times I can reason with him and if I continue to repeat "get your toy" , most times he will now. There are occasions where he still pushes me to the edge and at that point I leave the room for a few minutes and most times when I return he is calm and laying down. I do see a faint light at the end of the tunnel!!! 

GR1NC needs to give up that puppy. Even if the puppy stopped all those annoying things right now, that person should not own a dog or be anywhere near one. I feel sorry for their daughter having been dealt this parent and even sorrier for the dog who would never be able to speak up for itself if this owner becomes abusive. 

Begging you to return or rehome this poor dog. Ask any one of us on here, I'm sure 99% of us would be willing come to you and take it off of your hands and away from your cold heart.


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## SableHart

When I received this email update last night my heart sank  We would take this puppy in a second if it meant a good safe home. Raising a puppy is not easy, it takes patience, dedication and good training.

Our puppy is also a land shark, but we like to call her our little alligator. She's just shy of 11 months and has had almost a complete turnaround from her behavior as a young pup. We will admit we had moments of being at our wits end with her biting and some other behaviors, but we stuck with it and went through a great training program with a former K-9 officer. Our puppy has a strong personality and is very intelligent and so much fun. She still has her moments, but she's a puppy and hasn't settled down yet.

I also concur that 9 is not a age for a child to be responsible for a pet. We have nieces and nephews in that age range, and they are irresponsible.

Golden's have such a sweet temperament, love everyone, and just want everyone to love them back. Please if you are going to hurt this precious puppy return it or find a good home.


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## Fattner

This person doesn't deserve the puppy !! Return the pup and let the pup have a great life cause this owner will not provide it !! All I have to say is this owner doesn't deserve any animal !!!!


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## chewy10

I've had Goldens in the past along with many other dog breeds. Where exactly has this idea appeared that Goldens go through a 'land shark' phase?? I've owned them in Europe as well and NEVER had a puppy have a truly aggressive streak at any phase. A chewing phase, an occasional puppy aged snap or attempt to guard food, a jumping phase, a can-i-ignore-your-command phase, yes. . . puppies have those but biting and all out aggressive behavior persisting for months???? Might I suggest, at the risk of everyone biting my head off, that this is something that breeders are not breeding out of dogs? In the interest of breeding a bright performance dog the personality of dogs bred by many breeders is really suffering. You can say what you will but the Golden is not supposed to have a hard bite or the desire to constantly battle his owners at every turn. Every pup is challenging at different times but the trainability of my previous dogs has meant that a correction or two, or persistent training over a few days, was always enough to extinguish the behavior. I've met way too many pure bred Goldens who have problematic personalities to have any faith in a pure bred dog having the 'golden personality' any more.


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## chewy10

Since my previous very frustrated post I've done a lot more research into what might be causing the insane behavior in our dog (agitation, flipping out suddenly) and had him tested for thyroid issues. Turns out his thyroid levels were terribly low. A few weeks on thyroid meds and suddenly he is an angel and exactly what I would have expected from a golden. I don't know if this advice is helpful at this point but if you have a 'land-shark' who is unpredictable in when he is aggressive, (not just puppy play but really unpredictable mood swings) I would suggest getting complete blood work done.


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## DebScroc

*Thyroid*

Thank you sooooo much! My Bodie is now one year old and what you describe is exactly what is STILL happening here. Most times he's fine and then all of a sudden he's charging at me and biting. If I weren't so accustomed to it , it would scare me as it's difficult to redirect sometimes. I'm going to have blood work done next week! 
Thanks again
Debbie


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## Jud

Phillyfisher said:


> I do think your pup is trying to establish its place in your pack, however, I disagree with your breeder's methods for dealing with it. Tucker was the same way when he came home. We established order by making him work for everything- NILF. (Nothing in Life is Free- just google NILF) When he starts getting mouthy now when he wants to play, I immediately go into training mode- making him sit, down, wait, give paw, etc. It distracts him from what he was doing, and reminds him that I am the boss. Tucker became less nippy once he figured out his pack position. At first, he nipped at all of us, then just my wife and kids, then just the kids, then just my youngest. It took my youngest a good 4 to 6 weeks to establish his position above Tucker. I have to give my son a lot of credit- it was hard work for him and he did not give up, and now Tucker listens to him just like everyone else in the house. BTW- my hands were red-raw for those first few weeks!


This...is the best solution. I've seen it work with other puppies and when my 11.5 week puppy Skye....gets excited and does puppy play growl and biting...I stand up (I have a very deep , resonate voice) and say 'Sit...stay....down' ....she forgets about what she was doing and it is reinforced that I am the boss.
And best....I don't have to grab her mouth or do the other suggestions of that nature. Good luck


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## eddiethewonderdog

*Kerri loves Eddie*

I have owned GR before. and they are loyal, loving and so lovely. But my new puppy male, who is now 11 months old, has very sudden turns in his behaviour - and launches at me and bites me even when i turn my back. I have been to puppy school with him twice in his time, I have had two puppy trainers, GR specific, visit and help me individually. Of course he behaves well when they are here! I can be walking him and going well, using positive reinforcement, then without warning he will turn on me in the middle of a walk! I have taken him to the vet about it. He behaves at the vet. He behaves when another person is distracting him and giving him attention. I am tired and scared of the biting now, and it is really getting strong, and he won't stop - i have to tether him to a post if possible and give us both a minute or two to breath and relax.
I am thinking of taking him back to the breeder, as I feel I am getting no where, and feel like he may really harm me.
He is lovable and can be very cuddly at all other times, we love him, but I can't see that he will grow out of this, and it is harmful to myself and him and may be harmful to others.


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## eddiethewonderdog

Help me please! He is a great dog in most other ways, and of course behaves like a puppy should.


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## Wolfeye

eddiethewonderdog said:


> Help me please! He is a great dog in most other ways, and of course behaves like a puppy should.


Have you tried a shock collar? In the end, if all the "gentle" methods of persuasion have failed, it's time to escalate the arms race, so to speak. You are entirely right to be afraid. Dogs of GR size are lethal killing machines if they decide to be. They are not humans, they are not babies, and they are certainly not angels - not all the time!

This behavior has to have immediate negative consequences for the dog. Otherwise he won't stop.


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## ceegee

This is very difficult to diagnose without actually seeing the behaviour. Teenage dogs can be very unruly: in your dog's mind it might only be a game, and it's just got out of hand. Or is he snarling, posturing, showing real aggression and trying intentionally to hurt you? Maybe you could have someone walk with you and film the behaviour, so that a professional trainer can give you an opinion and help you with it.

I have an energetic 10-month-old male pup who occasionally flings himself at me when he's over-excited, but it's not aggression - it's just surplus enthusiasm and energy. He's not trying to hurt me. When it happens I put him in a down-stay then practise some basic commands. It calms him down. He does stuff like this when he hasn't had enough physical or mental exercise, or when he first comes out of his crate. It doesn't worry me - he'll be trained out of it eventually.

Good luck, hope you find a solution.


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## Cpc1972

Wolfeye said:


> Have you tried a shock collar? In the end, if all the "gentle" methods of persuasion have failed, it's time to escalate the arms race, so to speak. You are entirely right to be afraid. Dogs of GR size are lethal killing machines if they decide to be. They are not humans, they are not babies, and they are certainly not angels - not all the time!
> 
> This behavior has to have immediate negative consequences for the dog. Otherwise he won't stop.


This would be the worst type of dog to use a shock collar on. If he already has these tendencies I would never use a shock collar.

I am sorry you are going through this. At 11 months this shouldn't be happening. Did you have your other golden as a puppy.


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## Aislinn

I like ceegee's idea. Have someone video you with him. Then you watch it and see if you can see what is going on before he does it. Is he passing some dog behind a fence, in a window barking? Are there people across the street? A dog running loose somewhere nearby? Also share it with your trainer. It may just be a dog who is bored/over excited/super happy, etc.. Without our being able to see it, your vet or anyone else seeing it, it can't be diagnosed. And I wouldn't use a shock collar either. Especially as you don't know why he is doing what he is doing.


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## Piper_the_goldenpuppy

I would make sure a dog like that is getting LOTS of exercise. A tired dog is a well behaved dog. A bored puppy will create their own games and their own fun, and 11 month olds have a lot more energy and can go for a lot longer than a 4-5 month old or younger. My last girl was like this around 11 months old. She was an absolute, total brat at times. I doubled down on training, kept things very structured, but increased her aerobic exercise (fetch, etc) by an extra hour each day (so she was getting 2-2.5ish hours of pure running around). I started training her to do even more complex tasks--like how to get herself untangled from her leash if she stepped over it. I made her retrieve perfectly. She did grow out of it around a year and a half, but got much better with more exercise and more structure. 

I tried to get my dog tired out before walks. Walks unfortunately are not enough to burn puppy energy. I live across the street from a huge fenced in dog park, so we would go there and get good and tired before going on a walk. 

Shock collars shouldn't be used unless you are doing it with a trainer and getting classes along with it--in my opinion. There's a specific way you want to train them when using one, and its definitely not a beginner type thing where you can figure it out as you go. Switching from a positive reinforcement to positive punishment model requires a change in training tactics and communication, especially with an electric collar. Otherwise, you can accidentally end up doing more harm than good. Don't get me wrong, sometimes they are needed, but usually only with severe behavioral issues when other results have failed. This is especially important with a sensitive breed like Goldens. A friend of mine is currently using one with her rottie/pit/lab mix who has developed extreme leash reactivity and fierce overprotectiveness of her owner. Its helping her a lot, but she meets with a trainer once or twice a week, goes to class once a week and only has the collar on when she's 100% ready to respond in the way she needs to. My friend hates it. Maggie (her dog) was literally shaking before her last class and crying not to go in when they went this week. Its making my friend revisit whether its a good option for her. Unfortunately, she's been working with this dog and her behavioralist consistently for 7 months before she started this, and had really failed all other options. Maggie is really a wonderful dog, she's the smartest dog I know, she just has some incredibly difficult issues.

Have you tried a gentle leader collar? Or even a prong collar? They can give you a lot of control on leash if your dog starts acting up. A prong collar is used for self correction if your dog is doing something he's not supposed to be doing (like going in the opposite way, or charging at your feet), but is not otherwise punitive. I know you have seen puppy trainers, but have you seen a behavioralist? That could help also. Try to keep a log of everything that happened to precipitate the events, so you can get an idea of what is triggering it. Some dogs only do this after they've seen another dog--or super friendly person--that they can't say hi to...they are displacing that energy. If you can get it on video, thats even better. Keep a leash on your dog inside, so you can quickly redirect him into a timeout if gets into one of these moods. You don't want to keep a prong collar or gentle leader on in the house though. If he does this on leash outside, step on the leash and keep him away from you, or so close that he can't get at your feet, or tie him up until he's calmed down. If you were only doing puppy classes, start an obedience class, or possibly an agility class--you want to channel that energy. Or start a higher level obedience class. If you have the means to do so, have a trainer come every week. 

He shouldn't be doing this, but its not necessarily a sign that you have a bad dog with poor temperament. Its really impossible to figure that out online. Read up on dog body language and behavior. He may just need more exercise, a lot more structure, and more of a job to do. He might be stressed or anxious, and this is how he's displacing it. Aggression doesn't usually manifest itself by random sneak attacks, but if he's displacing because of some other reason that might be why.


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## Charliethree

eddiethewonderdog said:


> I have owned GR before. and they are loyal, loving and so lovely. But my new puppy male, who is now 11 months old, has very sudden turns in his behaviour - and launches at me and bites me even when i turn my back. I have been to puppy school with him twice in his time, I have had two puppy trainers, GR specific, visit and help me individually. Of course he behaves well when they are here! I can be walking him and going well, using positive reinforcement, then without warning he will turn on me in the middle of a walk! I have taken him to the vet about it. He behaves at the vet. He behaves when another person is distracting him and giving him attention. I am tired and scared of the biting now, and it is really getting strong, and he won't stop - i have to tether him to a post if possible and give us both a minute or two to breath and relax.
> I am thinking of taking him back to the breeder, as I feel I am getting no where, and feel like he may really harm me.
> He is lovable and can be very cuddly at all other times, we love him, but I can't see that he will grow out of this, and it is harmful to myself and him and may be harmful to others.


I second the suggestion of seeking out a professional (reward based) trainer to help you understand your dog's behavior and guide you with how to work with your dog to teach him more appropriate behavior and impulse control - what to do 'instead'.

Avoid the use of 'collar's and corrections, though it may 'solve' the problem short term, it does not address the underlying 'reason' for the behavior, nor teach the dog what TO DO, instead.


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## eddiethewonderdog

*Kerri loves Eddie*

Hello to all those who replied. Your comments and support are all great and very very helpful - thanks so much - perhaps I should have consulted such a good chat room before buying Eddie. I think videoing his behaviour would be an idea for sure - however hard to catch his moments. Consulting behavioural experts too. He has calmed down a bit in this last week with some consistent walks and minimising too much stimulation..... however, walking him with other dogs and getting him "worn out" is also a good thing! and much more enjoyable to watch. However, after running around with other dogs - Eddie gets more bites with me all the way home! Definitely i think a different harness would be worth trying too. Although 90% of the time on lead, he is very gentle and does not pull and walks beside me - he can walk, stand, sit, drop, wait, go to bed, get into car, fetch, give etc. 

The bottom line is that I think i have made the wrong decision this time to get a puppy - as I need to put my human children first..... and lets face it, having other kids/friends around for a play should be fun, not hectic for me trying to keep Eddie from trying to nip at the kids, or from barking constantly when he is separated. He is a puppy who wants to have fun, who wants to be a part of the action, who is more excitable than any puppy i have known and uses biting at times I often cannot predict. It is heart breaking to see him being excluded, even though he is included in most other family activities . 

I think I should do the right thing by Eddie and let him go to a family without little children, who can give him more than i can. He is after all a smart dog, and learns quickly, settles well at night, wants to be with people, and needs more attention than I can give him. He is a beautiful and loving dog. I am heart broken, and sad, but I really did try - and really did think having a puppy could be achievable. Sorry for not listening to those who said that big puppies and families don't mix...... it was hard to believe for me having been a GR owner for so long..... thanks to you all. I will give him a few more weeks, and at the same time talk with people and use word of mouth to see if anyone might be good for Eddie... I would have to find him the right place.


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## eddiethewonderdog

Wolfeye said:


> Have you tried a shock collar? In the end, if all the "gentle" methods of persuasion have failed, it's time to escalate the arms race, so to speak. You are entirely right to be afraid. Dogs of GR size are lethal killing machines if they decide to be. They are not humans, they are not babies, and they are certainly not angels - not all the time!
> 
> This behavior has to have immediate negative consequences for the dog. Otherwise he won't stop.


I appreciate your advice - and it does seem something drastic needs to happen to completely stop this behaviour - but I just couldn't bring myself to use a shock collar..... I would have to see one in action. I would be worried it would make him more anxious.... but really, thanks for listening and suggesting, much appreciated.


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