# Visit to Breeder



## greg bell (May 24, 2005)

health guarantee, OFA certification of parents and ancestors, knees, heart and thyroid clearance, CERF (eyes), meet the parents and see how temprament blends with your lifestyle.. 
ask for and get references.. from the same breeding if possible.
Do not let the breeder intimidate you with their knowledge. They may ask you a lot of questions and that is fine. Any good breeder will. In fact, if they don't, it would concern me. 
Look for cleanliness of kennel. well cared for dogs. 
I personally like "kitchen litters myself". Those raised in the kitchen or some other part of the house where they are around people. This will probably not be true with a breeder raising this many litters. 
Ask why they bred these two particular dogs? strengths and weaknesses of each and how they expect the weaknesses of each to be improved by strengths in the other. 
Know what you want in your dog. What do you want it to be?.. Do you want a calm quiet dog to lay by the fireplace or do you want a fire breather? 
good luck


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## DelmarvaGold (Mar 7, 2006)

I second what Greg has said. The breeder should have had you fill out a Puppy Application / Questionnaire. I ask all sorts of questions on mine. It provides insight as to whether or not I think this person will meet my standards as to how I think a pup should be cared for and raised. 

I have extensive knowledge of breeders and their pedigrees. I can certainly tell you if I have ever heard of this breeder and give you my opinion as to whether or not "I" consider her reputable.


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## reddoglady (Feb 20, 2006)

*Senior Moment*

Disregard my replies -- Libby and Jimmy Presnell -- Presnells Prized Possessions I had a senior moment. One of many ...........:doh:


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

My only red flag that comes up right away is three litters. That is a lot... good breeders breed only to keep a puppy for their own purpose of improving the breed and competing with the dog in their chosen venue. Most good breeders would never breed three litters in a year, never mind at once... that is alarming. However, sometimes there may be a legitimate reason, such as if several older females need to be bred before it's too late, or if they have not bred for several years. Good luck with your new puppy! It's so exciting


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Whoa, google them. Their website screams puppymill. They breed SIX breeds... Boykins, ESS, GR, Labs, Chessies, and GSPs, plus I see info about CKCs and Alaskan Malamutes... RUN, and run fast... that is never a good sign. Just my two cents.


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## DelmarvaGold (Mar 7, 2006)

My personal opinion after seeing their website is that I would not purchase a puppy from them. I don't like the fact that they have "several" breeds to choose from. I do not see pedigrees listed or health clearances. These puppies also look as though they are whelped in a cold damp basement or some type of out building. Just remember...you get what you pay for. I do not mean this to be derogatory to you or the Presnells in any way...just my personal opinion.


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## Allie and the Gang =) (Apr 21, 2005)

DelmarvaGold said:


> My personal opinion after seeing their website is that I would not purchase a puppy from them. I don't like the fact that they have "several" breeds to choose from. I do not see pedigrees listed or health clearances. These puppies also look as though they are whelped in a cold damp basement or some type of out building. Just remember...you get what you pay for. I do not mean this to be derogatory to you or the Presnells in any way...just my personal opinion.


 

I didnt see the website, but i would have to agree here! Be careful, it is so much better to get quality and maybe pay a little more! Good Luck:wavey:


Ok just saw their website, and i must say...I WOULDNT....Please dont support this type of breeding program...PLEASE!


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## jeffreyzone (Feb 8, 2006)

Yep, I'm with AquaClara and Delmarva on this one. That Web site is very telling. 

As everyone is advising, I would be very careful about acquiring a puppy from a breeder. The biggest problem is inbreeding, and even the most careful breeders sometimes make mistakes. As it's already been mentioned those pedigrees are very important.

But you are in luck, because there are several people on this forum who are very serious indeed about proper breeding. Katie will probably be checking in soon, and maybe she will share some of the research she has done in regard to Golden breeders in the Untited States. Let's ask her nicely. There are a few breeders who are doing exceptional work, and it's good to support their efforts.

Or, if you are seeking a pet Golden, and you aren't concerned about registration or even knowing the history of the dog, it's always a great idea to check with your local Golden Retriever rescue group. They can help you find a great match, and you'll be helping a precious Golden in need. Of course, a rescued dog is always a huge roll of the dice when it comes to health issues, usually due to careless breeding...am I detecting a pattern here? ;-)

Good luck, and please keep us posted!


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## DelmarvaGold (Mar 7, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> My only red flag that comes up right away is three litters. That is a lot... good breeders breed only to keep a puppy for their own purpose of improving the breed and competing with the dog in their chosen venue. Most good breeders would never breed three litters in a year, never mind at once... that is alarming. However, sometimes there may be a legitimate reason, such as if several older females need to be bred before it's too late, or if they have not bred for several years. Good luck with your new puppy! It's so exciting


I will have to respectfully disagree with you. You made a "sweeping" statement about breeders. What makes a *good* breeder is some one who does all the required health clearances, extensively researches pedigrees so that they know the breeding will produce mentally and physically sound puppies, that the litters are whelped in their homes and socialized. I know of several golden breeders who breed at least 8 litters per year. These puppies are sold before they are born...most purchasers are other golden breeders. 
I do agree that they should be competing in some type of AKC venue.
I myself only breed 1-2 litters per year. I always have a waiting list and with every litter have to turn people down as I do not have enough puppies. With my current litter, I took 5 deposits and have 12 more people on a waiting list. I do place puppies into competition homes first, companion homes second. If I get to the point where I can breed 5 litters a year I certainly will.


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## Allie and the Gang =) (Apr 21, 2005)

DelmarvaGold said:


> I will have to respectfully disagree with you. You made a "sweeping" statement about breeders. What makes a *good* breeder is some one who does all the required health clearances, extensively researches pedigrees so that they know the breeding will produce mentally and physically sound puppies, that the litters are whelped in their homes and socialized. I know of several golden breeders who breed at least 8 litters per year. These puppies are sold before they are born...most purchasers are other golden breeders.
> I do agree that they should be competing in some type of AKC venue.
> I myself only breed 1-2 litters per year. I always have a waiting list and with every litter have to turn people down as I do not have enough puppies. With my current litter, I took 5 deposits and have 12 more people on a waiting list. I do place puppies into competition homes first, companion homes second. If I get to the point where I can breed 5 litters a year I certainly will.


AGAIN, i must agree with you about what is a reputable breeder and your comments about number of litters a year...It ALL depends on the breeders INTENTIONS and love of the breed....


Delmarva, you are doing an awesome job! Beautiful dogs!!!!!!!!:wavey:


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

You make some good points, and I don't want to argue. I know there's exceptions... but for the most part, if a breeder told me they breed eight litters per year I would be alarmed. That's when the research comes in.

However, i stand by my opinion of the breeder in question, who has six or eight breeds.


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## DelmarvaGold (Mar 7, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> However, i stand by my opinion of the breeder in question, who has six or eight breeds.


In that, we are in agreement.


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## DelmarvaGold (Mar 7, 2006)

Allie and the Gang =) said:


> AGAIN, i must agree with you about what is a reputable breeder and your comments about number of litters a year...It ALL depends on the breeders INTENTIONS and love of the breed....
> Delmarva, you are doing an awesome job! Beautiful dogs!!!!!!!!:wavey:


Thank you. I certainly try my best and I am very particular about what I breed


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## katieanddusty (Feb 9, 2006)

Three litters at a time is a lot, but then I know a very good breeder who breeds less than once a year on average and just happened to have two litters within weeks of each other, so you can't judge them on that alone.

That does sound like a bad one, though. I would keep looking. I REALLY encourage you to check into Golden rescue. Rescue dogs aren't any less of dogs because they don't have "papers" or whatever, 99% of them will make just as good of pets as a puppy from a breeder. And if you look on www.petfinder.com I bet you can find a Golden puppy, so you even still get puppy cuteness


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## MegB (Jul 19, 2005)

When I bought Woody, I found a breeder whose pups cost a little less than the going price. She seemed a little "shady"--didn't ask me questions, sire was not OFA'd (only a prelim), didn't show the dogs in any sort of competition, etc. But I was clueless, and I thought that those things didn't matter too much, so I might as well save some money.

WRONG!!!!

A surgery (hip dysplasia) and $900 later, here we are. For what I paid the breeder plus all the vet bills, I could have bought a show dog. And to top it all off, the breeder offered NO help, financial or otherwise. 

Needless to say, I have little to offer about finding a responsible breeder. But I do know that the people here know what they are talking about! I'd listen to them and keep looking--it will probably save you some money and heartbreak.

Good luck!


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## greg bell (May 24, 2005)

I have not visited the website, but from what these folks are saying, I totally agree. It would help if we knew what you are looking for. Even if we knew of some litters, we cannot help if you don't tell us what you want this pup for. Hunting (I can help there), show, agility, guard dog D ), or pet. 
How much do you expect to spend on a pup?..

One suggestion would be to contact your closest golden retriever club. Tell them what you are looking for. Problem there is that most those folks are going to be involved in some form of competition and be real proud of their pups and price them accordingly. 
Be a little agressive and know what you are looking for. You are the buyer and dont let any breeder push you around. If they try, walk away. 
When I bought Dixie, I called a very well known breeder to inquire about a litter that I was interested in.. I told her about myself and then asked a couple questions about the breeding.. her response was: "do you want to come pick the puppy up or do you want me to fly it to you".. I began to get that same feeling you get in some automotive dealerships.. I walked.. 
There are lots of puppies out there and many of them will be just what you want. But you need to know what it is that you want. 'All golden retrievers are not the same... true of all breeds. Then be sure you know what you are getting into..puppies are a lot of work to do it right... You need time each and every day for that pup if you expect to have the adult dog that you want it to be.


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## LauraEyes2 (Sep 16, 2005)

Well put GB. I agree that education is very important, as is to avoid being impulsive. It's easy to want a puppy NOW and find someone who will have a puppy for you right away, but it may not be the best choice of pup. It definitely pays to do your homework, find a reputable breeder, and make sure that the genetics are in your puppy's favor. Sure, genetics are no guarantee. Parents with bad genetics can produce healthy pups with long lives, and parents with excellent genetics can produce pups with health problems, etc. Who knows? But your odds are much better when you have mother nature on your side. 

Like everyone has said, finding a reputable breeder may not be easy but it is worth your while. You want someone who is just as concerned with the puppy having a great home as you are. I agree with Greg's suggestion of contacting your local GR Club, they are typically populated with breeders who have a lot of time and knowledge invested in the breed. They can usually point you in the right direction and often know of people who may have puppies available, or soon available.

It's a shame that there are many people out there who simply want to make a quick buck off the sale. Like a few people said, you may pay less for some of these lower-end puppies, but you'll probably pay for it in the long run with vet bills and frustrations.

Check with your vet too, where i used to work we kept a binder at work of highly recommended breeders, contact names, etc. They often have a pulse on clients who are reputable breeders, and who are not, and so on. Good luck, please heed what others have said, here, the forum members here have a wealth of knowledge and experience on this site so it's worthwhile to take everyone's advice into consideration. Keep us posted, Best of luck!

Laura


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## reddoglady (Feb 20, 2006)

Thanks for all the input. Lots to think about. We want a golden for a pet - no hunting or anything like that. I am not going to rush into anything. I am getting the puppy when I stop working for the summer so I will have time to spend with her. This will be our third dog (we lost two recently) and I do know it is alot of work in the beginning. 


Jenne 5/20/90 - 2/8/2006 at the bridge
Maggie 5/92 - 11/30/05 at the bridge

Forever in our hearts...................


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## Goldndust (Jul 30, 2005)

If it were me, I would use caution! Most reputable breeders will not breed this many different breeds, and be able to do it well.

I'd walk very carefully on this one and try to find out as much as you can about them.


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## greg bell (May 24, 2005)

Good luck and stay in touch with us. We will be curious as to what you get and want to see pics..


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

reddoglady said:


> ...We want a golden for a pet - no hunting or anything like that. I am not going to rush into anything. I am getting the puppy when I stop working for the summer so I will have time to spend with her...


Then health and temperament are main priorities...

You must be a teacher, right? Your plan for the summer is an excellent one... we did exactly the same thing.

You've already gotten some of the best advice this forum has to offer... so there's really nothing left for me to add except to say... Good Luck and let us know what happens...


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

If a breeder looks like they are making money in this deal, then run. It has been my experience that it is impossible to earn money breeding Goldens, while also maintaining your standards. Many breeders are also professional handlers, which can actually result in some income.
I keep very careful records, and I can tell you it is hard to overcome a $6,000.00 annual food bill, $6K- $7K in vet bills, show entry fees, housing, stud fees, travel, etc.
To earn a living, you'd have to cut costs somewhere. Probably the first to go is the stud fees, premium dog foods, X-rays, blood tests, eye and cardiological exams and who knows what else.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

"Just a pet" is still a very if not THE MOST important job a dog can ever, ever have. Health, temperament, and stylish good looks are very valuable in any pet. I hope you find the perfect pet to give you years of happiness! When you do, send us pictures. I think there's a law about that somewhere


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## Goldndust (Jul 30, 2005)

reddoglady said:


> Thanks for all the input. Lots to think about. We want a golden for a pet - no hunting or anything like that. I am not going to rush into anything.
> Jenne 5/20/90 - 2/8/2006 at the bridge
> Maggie 5/92 - 11/30/05 at the bridge
> Forever in our hearts...................


I have one thing to add, and it pertains to your post. Remember what the golden is, it was designed to hunt so weather your looking into hunting or not, the dog is a retriever that is active as well as should have good nose on him for the job of hunting, whether you would take the golden there or not. Another thing to consider is, maybe now you say I just want a pet....thats ok! But think a couple years down the road, you may want to move into something with this golden to help exercise, or simply because you have found an interest in it, such as agility, tracking, field, therapy! This is where those titles are nice that many responsible breeders put on there dogs to prove there capable of doing what they say they are. There such fun dogs too own, but no matter what, they do require a lot of exercise. Pay close attention to the gaurentee, and read the fine print. 

Ooooooh, do not settle on a cheap golden....believe me, they are NO bargain! Most of these will not even come with a gaurentee and cost you more in the long run do to health problems that you may see as the dog gets around 6 months or so. Bianka has cost me BIG bucks!!!! She was in and out of the vets office everytime I turned around with unexplained leg problems. The cost now of a HD in surgery is I believe 2,000 or above, so you can see that a bargain golden really is no bargain if you end up with this type of problem and no gaurentee. Cancer is also really, really high in the golden now....you gotta be real careful out there now when looking for a golden. Bianka doesn't have HD, but she does have a patella problem that is genetic.

It's just a thought:wave:


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## LauraEyes2 (Sep 16, 2005)

Often too, to consider, is that the label of a "Pet Quality" dog is often considered the second-rate dog. A lot of times petstores and puppymills produce dogs that are "pet quality" which while they may be great pets, often come with some less-than ideal features or health problems. Just something to consider. Often they are the result of poor breeding and genetics, do your homework and learn all you can. 

Dogs are a 10-15 year committment, you want to make the best choice so you can have a dog that will provide you years of fun as well as a healthy pet. Good luck! New puppies are always a big excitement.


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## katieanddusty (Feb 9, 2006)

This is a GREAT story about "cheap" puppies http://home.earthlink.net/~locdo/golden.htm ... make sure you click on "final words" on the last page of the story ...


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## sam (May 21, 2005)

I just come across this thread...reddoglady, and news? I, too, am a teacher. Summer is my "puppy-raising" window. I have been very lucky speaking with local agility clubs and participants. Just go and hang out...you can find competitions in the newspapers, or online. Even if you aren't interested in agility, pups from that sort of breeding tend to be well-behaved, intelligent, and focused. Those breeders have a stake in producing dogs with good genes, and good traits. Also, the breeder can choose the pup that will best suit your circumstances. I got my current pup from a chance encounter at an agility trial last May (altho I had been looking since the previous January). Good luck, and let us know how the search is going!


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## MyBuddy22 (Oct 29, 2010)

I have talked to the Presnell's they have been breeding Goldens for 14 years. They have all the health certs.


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## westernman1 (Aug 15, 2019)

I am looking at this thread 13 years later. My baby Golden died yesterday. She was from Presnell's. She was the best dog I ever had. Hands down. The friendliest, etc... She was like a therapy dog to me. I miss her. Mr Presnell (I never knew the Presnells because I got this beautiful Golden from another party) died a few years back. I know they are out of the breeding business but I would buy another dog from them in a heartbeat


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