# Switching food



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Merrick (chicken and rice) and Fromm (gold, I think?) are probably closest to what you are feeding her right now. Nutrisource (adult, chicken and rice) is another one that I've fed my guys before and liked the quality of the food. 

Nature's Variety was one of those that didn't agree with Jacks.

ETA - if she's used to eating lamb, look for similar formulas. Lamb doesn't agree with Jacks, or I've had better luck with chicken type formulas.


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

Winniesmom said:


> Her trainer recommended either Fromm gold, Merrick, or natures variety. Do to know which is the best and what formula to switch too. She eats anything without any allergies or stomach problems. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.


Of three, I'd go with the Fromm Gold as Nature's Variety and Merrick both have very high ash content. Fromm Classics, Nutrisource, and Precise are a few other foods worth considering.

Winnie is a beauty btw.


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## Mosby's Mom (Oct 19, 2011)

I also found that Nature's Variety and Merrick have higher ash levels than some other brands (I emailed both companies for the information). I love Fromm as a company, but no matter what formula I tried, it didn't work well for my dogs. I know you didn't mention the brand, but since other posters did, I will add that I also have used and like Nutrisource foods.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

What do you guys mean by "ash levels" and how does that apply to your dog? What is the negative, etc? 

This is not a gotcha question. I'm genuinely curious what people mean when they use terms like this. How does it apply to dogs, etc... 

Nature's Variety and Merrick are two completely different foods... especially now that Merrick merged with Organix (?).


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

Megora said:


> What do you guys mean by "ash levels" and how does that apply to your dog? What is the negative, etc?
> 
> This is not a gotcha question. I'm genuinely curious what people mean when they use terms like this. How does it apply to dogs, etc...
> 
> Nature's Variety and Merrick are two completely different foods... especially now that Merrick merged with Organix (?).


Ash is basically the inorganic (mineral) content in the food and can be lead to kidneys/stone issues. It can also be a reflection of the quality of the ingredients in the food. Both the recent Merrick and NV formulas have higher than average ash content. That'ss not to say they're bad foods, I just generally prefer to feed/recommend others with more moderate amounts (i.e. Fromm) until more is established.


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## Mosby's Mom (Oct 19, 2011)

Ash levels were something I never really knew about or cared about until we added our second pup, and his breeder (who I will say is not a vet or anything like that, just someone who has had dogs for many years - so I am not pretending she is an expert by any means) provided us with a list of foods that she approves of/is comfortable with her dogs being fed. When talking about why certain foods were not on the list, one of the reasons were high ash levels. My understanding is basically what Garfield said, that ash is mineral content and when there is too much (especially over the life of the dog) it can lead to kidney problems. However, typically when there is more meat, ash levels are higher (and as a "for example" Natura lists ash levels for all their foods on their website, so you can see ash level in Innova versus Evo, etc). What I don't pretend to understand is how ash content reflects the quality of ingredients - supposedly higher quality meat meals have less ash. 

I will say that, in my own digging and asking companies, poultry based foods tend to have less ash then red meat based foods, and grain-inclusive foods just about always have much less ash (around 6% compared to as high as 12% in some grain free foods), so I don't know if the concern over ash levels is just a product of the grain-free movement, or when anyone really became aware of ash levels. It's just something I've come to look at when trying to see the whole picture about the food choice I make for the pups (for me, ash level aren't my end-all deciding factor, unless we are talking 12% or so).


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Ah. OK. I hear people throwing around "ash" like it's a known issue.... and I just wanted to know what I'm MISSING.  

I have my guys checked 1-2x a year to hopefully catch any kidney issues as a preventive measure.


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## Keragold (May 9, 2008)

Here is an article on ash and minerals in general for those who are interested.
http://www.petcurean.com/health-and-nutrition/for-dogs


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Keragold said:


> Here is an article on ash and minerals in general for those who are interested.
> http://www.petcurean.com/health-and-nutrition/for-dogs


Um... that just looks like a link to a dog food company.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Mosby's Mom said:


> Ash levels were something I never really knew about or cared about until we added our second pup, and his breeder (who I will say is not a vet or anything like that, just someone who has had dogs for many years - so I am not pretending she is an expert by any means) provided us with a list of foods that she approves of/is comfortable with her dogs being fed. When talking about why certain foods were not on the list, one of the reasons were high ash levels. My understanding is basically what Garfield said, that ash is mineral content and when there is too much (especially over the life of the dog) it can lead to kidney problems. However, typically when there is more meat, ash levels are higher (and as a "for example" Natura lists ash levels for all their foods on their website, so you can see ash level in Innova versus Evo, etc). What I don't pretend to understand is how ash content reflects the quality of ingredients - supposedly higher quality meat meals have less ash.
> 
> I will say that, in my own digging and asking companies, poultry based foods tend to have less ash then red meat based foods, and grain-inclusive foods just about always have much less ash (around 6% compared to as high as 12% in some grain free foods), so I don't know if the concern over ash levels is just a product of the grain-free movement, or when anyone really became aware of ash levels. It's just something I've come to look at when trying to see the whole picture about the food choice I make for the pups (for me, ash level aren't my end-all deciding factor, unless we are talking 12% or so).


Ash is both protein level and quality dependent. Low quality proteins have lots of bone mixed in and are generally processed in large quanities by machine. Low ash chicken meals are processed by hand so less bone is taken up when it is processed.

In most cases, ash will rise with protein levels. Some companies like Dr. Tim's and Annamaet use very expensive chicken meal and have very low levels of Ash.

Dr Tim's hyper performance food called Momentum with 35% protein has just 6% max ash and phosphorus well below 1%. Phosphorous is what worries me the most nowadays. I use Dr. Tim's Pursuit with about 6.5% ash and less than 1% phosphorous.

That is one reason why Dr. Tim's and Annamaet are my choices. I have more dogs on Dr. Tim's now because I can buy direct.

Foods with chicken by products like Eukanuba are very low ash as well and are good choices.

Long term kidney health can be impacted by high ash for sure. Ash also interferes with other minerals. High calcium gets in the way of zinc assimilation. There is no reason to use a food with high ash.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

And there's another dog food company....

My opinion.... but I would absolutely not feed a dog anything with 28+ protein % levels if I were concerned about kidneys.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Megora said:


> And there's another dog food company....
> 
> My opinion.... but I would absolutely not feed a dog anything with 28+ protein % levels if I were concerned about kidneys.


In general that is probably good advice. Most dogs can't use that much anyway, but it is the phosphorous in higher protein foods that is the problem not really the protein itself.

Any dog with a diagnosed kideny problem should be eating what the Vet says.


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## Winniesmom (Jul 7, 2012)

Thank you everyone for your advice. Learned things I never knew and am glad I do now. I started switching her to Fromms 4star and so far so good. She ate the small bit mixed in with Harold food very fast.. Really appreciate all the help you vetNo this forum


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## Winniesmom (Jul 7, 2012)

Meant her old food, not Harold


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I was wondering what brand THAT was....


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Mine eat FROMM 4 stars mostly Chicken a la Veg of Surf n' Turf. Mine do best with Chicken


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## Keragold (May 9, 2008)

Megora said:


> Um... that just looks like a link to a dog food company.


If you read the article, you will see it is just good information. No selling, no brand promotion. Just facts.


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