# I need help with STAY



## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Okay all, I need your help. Dooley is two years old and we have been training for, well, two years. He is ready for the show ring except for his darn stays.:doh: I am not new to training I have trained a UD dog and several CDX dogs but he is the hardest one to keep him in one spot for any length of time. Stays are so boring for him, he has ants in his pants.

We go to class every Saturday and he is awesome on everything but when we get to the stays, aarrg. Any proofing steps that you guys would recommend? I have tried toys, food and people walking around and dogs working jumps in close. He is okay if I am near him, but if I am across the ring, it's not going to happen. I go back at different times without letting him break and give him praise and food. 

This is the last thing we need to get before we can enter. The bad part is we have a four day show next month here in our small town and I won't be able to enter as I don't want to start a problem with breaking in the ring.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

If the problem is when you move away, start having other people feed him for you when you're across the ring. I think it teaches the dog that if they're good, *anyone* in the ring may come and feed them, not just you. 

Is he kind of "needy" in general? The velcro dogs seem to have the hardest time w/ the stays when the owners walk to the other end of the ring. If so, work on lessening his "neediness" at home by asking him to spend some time apart from you, i.e., he spends an hour baby gated in the kitchen while you're in the home office getting work done, etc.

Also, if he's breaking right away, don't go all the way across the ring from him right now. Just a few steps back, *calmly* praise. Return, *calmly* pet and give a treat. Remind to stay, leave again. Get others to go in and feed as soon as you can; I think that really helps.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

What are you doing when he breaks his stays?

--I don't know if you are using food as a reward, but...I had a really good trainer tell me once that it is better not to use food for a stay because it helps steadiness. If they know they get food for staying, some dogs will sit their the whole time just waiting to break because they are too excited by the reward. Also, not to release a dog from a stay until you see them relax a little--ears and tail down, kind of aloof instead of alert and ready to break at any moment.

Anyway, just a thought. Good luck with your training!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Stephanie, thanks. Yes, he is needy but not to the point of velcro dog. Good suggestion about others feeding him. He does not break right away, its usually way into the stay. Another part of his issue is he will look at his neighbor and then get the "silly wiggles" you know the kind that say, you wanna play? I have stopped that to a point but sometimes it seeps through, and then I know I've lost him for that session.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

GoldenSail said:


> What are you doing when he breaks his stays?
> 
> --I don't know if you are using food as a reward, but...I had a really good trainer tell me once that it is better not to use food for a stay because it helps steadiness. If they know they get food for staying, some dogs will sit their the whole time just waiting to break because they are too excited by the reward. Also, not to release a dog from a stay until you see them relax a little--ears and tail down, kind of aloof instead of alert and ready to break at any moment.
> 
> Anyway, just a thought. Good luck with your training!


If he breaks his stay, I say "no" then go back to him without saying anything else and put him back where he was, and calmly tell him stay again and walk back (not quite as far). For stays, I don't make eye contact with him and have a different body posture for stays than for recalls, which by the way I don't work a lot on because of the stay issue. 

Interesting point about the food. I will try that too! :crossfing


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

The other idea is to have someone else calmly reset him for you when he breaks. Otherwise breaking = access to you, which is what he wants.


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## bizzy (Mar 30, 2007)

DNL2448 said:


> Stephanie, thanks. Yes, he is needy but not to the point of velcro dog. Good suggestion about others feeding him. He does not break right away, its usually way into the stay. Another part of his issue is he will look at his neighbor and then get the "silly wiggles" you know the kind that say, you wanna play? I have stopped that to a point but sometimes it seeps through, and then I know I've lost him for that session.


What you may want to try is to make stays a distance attention exersize. Practice watch me from a distance. So when he sarts looking as his neighbors you can redirect him.


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

I know a lot of people that have had success with problem stays with the PVC boxes or platforms.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Lots of good ideas already! I don't have anything new to add, but I really like the ideas about having someone else reset him and using the PVC box. I have seen people use a PVC box for agility start line stays, and also just using one piece of PVC to make a line in front of them.

Good luck! I am sure you will have it figured out soon!


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I don't know if I have anything to add here, lots of good ideas but when we worked on stays for my lab, not for obedience showing our trainer had us use a clock. 

We had to do 5 min sit (or down) stays. The dog had to stay in either the sit or down and not get out. We were to go about our business in the house as usual. Up or downstairs, in and out of rooms, or just sit and watch TV. This training program did NOT believe in treats, so the dogs reward for a good sit stay was release and praise. If the dog broke the position, you gave a firm "NO!" and put it right back where it was. This program is a bit tough on dogs, we learned a lot from them but have since modified (using "some" treats) and less army regime like tactics. However Belle got up to a half hour sit stay (or down without sleeping). Let me tell you I can walk away from her at a start line in agility and she will not move until I release her. 

In their classes they would move other dogs around dogs doing stays and your dog had to remain. Belle won many a sit stay competition. Oh and they did not let the dog sit "sloppy" either. When I say 'stay' my dogs do just that. Don't just work in obedience settings, work on it in life, it may make the obedience setting seem easy.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

Another trick is to put him on a light leash and then tie him to something so if he does break, he still cannot go anywhere. That way he's learning the basic idea that he has to 'stay' in that spot anyway, can't wander or get away. 

If he will sit or down on a verbal cue, then you also wouldn't have to touch him - he may be getting 'rewarded' because you're taking him back. Or have someone else be the person who goes in and has him sit - you'll have to play with him a bit to see.

Also, figure out how long he CAN stay and slowly build up that time. Three one minute stays where he does the whole thing right is a lot better than trying a five minute stay where he breaks. It just means you repeat the stays more often.

Lana


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