# Question on finishes



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I finally taught Flip a decent flip finish. I still need to work on him sometimes hitting me with a paw when he's jumping up, but overall I'm happy enough with it, considering this is my first dog to ever teach a flip finish to.

Occasionally he will not put the jump in, but just do kind of high stepping pivot into position. Not scorable, but not what I asked him to do either. So my question is, if he doesn't choose to jump should I make him or let it go? On one hand I think that if I gave him a command that means jump he should jump, but on the other hand I think maybe I need to pick my battles. What do you guys think?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

??? 

Personally speaking, I prefer my guy to do the jump-pivot, because it is showier. And seriously - that's what I train him to do every single time we train the left finish. I want him to jump-pivot. But if we are in a show or at a fun match and he pivots in place without the jump, I'll take it. 

So I guess what I'm saying is train him to do the jump-pivot, but absolutely make sure he finishes in heel position whether he jumps or not. 

ETA - Jacks always punches me in the face when he does swings, so I've dropped it for at least this month and am focusing on right finishes instead.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Maintain Criteria!! As soon as you know he's performing incorrectly, move away (I rotate to "front" or walk off a few steps), get the sit, and re-cue. [If poor response was due to a tired dog or too distracting of an environment....we'd stop before asking again or move somewhere else or do easier behaviors...]. I would not wait until he is in position before moving to restart. But I admit that sometimes I'm not as attentive as I should be and this happens on occasion!

For us, we try to for "if we have an error, I do not want to let my dog continue the chain." The other end of it is that me moving is a NRM of sorts and that can become a type of punishment.... I'm super careful that we get very few errors ever. But it is important to have a plan for when and if they happen! I haven't found a better option at this point in time to prevent the chain from happening.

A ...less tiring....option could be to have a calm L finish. Or just use the R at times where the flip is less likely to occur.

And the bigger part I suppose is way more time at the 'training stage.' For us that's uncued behaviors...to keep our cues all perfect [ahem, theoretically!] and associated with correct responses only. But I don't know how that translates to whatever you're doing.


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

Casey has an amazing flip finish in practices/fun matches etc. but often does the "lesser version" in the ring, where of course I cannot correct. I figure it is distractions, stress etc. Frustrating, but as long as he puts his butt in the right spot...


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Right now it's actually the more up he is the less likely I am to get the jump, I think because it's those times that he's so focused on hurrying up and getting to heel position and he knows it's a lot faster to do a quick pivot than to jump and turn.

I have been telling him "whoops" and breaking it off when he doesn't jump. But I'm a little concerned about the bumping and thinking maybe I should forget the flip finish even though it's cool see. Then again we've only been doing it seriously for three days so I guess I shouldn't be too quick to throw something out.

ugh I hate decisions. You guys decide for me!


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

While the high flying finishes look great.. most of the judges are watching very closely to see if the dog bumps or touches the handler. I would rather not give up easy points .. With that being said I have never trained it myself and I only know what I am watching. There are a few out there that can do it without losing points and yes it does look great so...... totally up to the trainer.
Michelle


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

my main reason for wanting him to do a flip finish (besides it looking cool) is because what a shame to have a dog named Flip that doesn't do flip finishes. But that's really a silly reason to do it and you're right I don't want to lose easy points for a stupid reason. Like I said, I hate decisions!

Michelle how does Titan finish when he does a left finish? (pivot, walk back and turn, etc).


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

To be honest, I taught Scout a flip finish but got lazy and didn't expect the jump every time so long as she was straight otherwise. Now she does it less often, but more likely will when she is riled up. I don't think for me that I will go back and insist on it at this point. It's not that important to me--but if you let it go you might not get it in the ring.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I can be lax on this too. BUT - I will say that even when we're lax about it in everyday life, the way he stresses up for a trial has kept our in-ring left finishes consistently big and flashy.

(Bowing down to the Golden Retriever Obedience Gods now to ensure that they stay that way!)

Part of the problem is that I use the same cue. "get ready" just means get to my left side ASAP. So if he's 3 feet to my right and I want him at heel, it's "get ready". Then if we've just done a recall or are otherwise at front and I want the left finish, I say "get ready". It's contextual for us.

When I'm actively training left finishes, I try to keep the criteria clear of wanting the jump. I also practice just the "get"/jump part a lot.

Personally, even if the leap has a greater chance to give me a bump or slightly off sit, I still prefer the flash.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Loisiana said:


> my main reason for wanting him to do a flip finish (besides it looking cool) is because what a shame to have a dog named Flip that doesn't do flip finishes. But that's really a silly reason to do it and you're right I don't want to lose easy points for a stupid reason. Like I said, I hate decisions!
> 
> Michelle how does Titan finish when he does a left finish? (pivot, walk back and turn, etc).


Titan does a very basic around to the right. Just my preference.I save the jumping and twisting for the retrieves.oh... and the leaping bunny like go outs..:doh:


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Titan1 said:


> oh... and the leaping bunny like go outs..:doh:


LOL, I remember you mentioning those go-outs before, you need to get us some video!


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Loisiana said:


> my main reason for wanting him to do a flip finish (besides it looking cool) is because what a shame to have a dog named Flip that doesn't do flip finishes. But that's really a silly reason to do it and you're right I don't want to lose easy points for a stupid reason. Like I said, I hate decisions!


I think you should teach him the flip finish! That is a good enough reason for me... : Can you teach a flip and a calm one?

Then again, I don't know much about OB


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

We've started working on a compromise where instead of making a high jump _up_ he jumps a long, low jump forward so he passes me, then turns and comes to heel.

I haven't decided yet what criteria I'm going to demand for the right finish. I did teach him to jump as his first step and then go around, but I think I'll leave it up to him if he wants to put the jump in or not.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Loisiana said:


> I haven't decided yet what criteria I'm going to demand for the right finish. I did teach him to jump as his first step and then go around, but I think I'll leave it up to him if he wants to put the jump in or not.


I really need to try to get tone of his runs downloaded this weekend while I am home. Titan does this little jump to start out right..But no laughing at his go outs... they are usually straight... last weekend was the exception.. I am sensitive you know..ROFL...:doh:


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