# Copper's supplements/massage are working wonders!



## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Based on information and recommendations from forum members, I started Copper on Glycoflex III and Duralactin just after Christmas since I asked for dog meds as my christmas present.

I put him on 1/2 dose for a week since I wanted to start slow and avoid another pancreatitis attack. He can't take Rimadyl or Deramaxx since he is prone to pancreatitis.
After one week, I started him on the loading dose of Glycoflex III and a full dose of Duralactin.

During this time I also decided to massage him both manually and with an electric massager every morning and then started using a moist heating pad on his hips and left hind leg since that seemed to give him the most trouble.

He went on a hike up the mountain with me Wednesday (about 10 days on fll dose)! We were only supposed to go partway up, but he just trotted up the trail and no way was he coming back. It is probably only about 1/2 mile, but there is a pretty good change in elevation during that hike, so it is quite a workout.

He showed no ill effects yesterday or today - no limping or extra stiffness.: He would not even leave the yard when my husband and I tried to get him to go on hikes this summer. this is the first time he has gone in 6 months.

We will continue with massage, heating pads and his supplements and if you have a senior who is having trouble you could try this too. I don't know which one is the magic bullet or if it is all of these things, but my old man sure is feeling good.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

teresa, that's just wonderful! We are doing the happy dance!


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I have some pictures I will load next week. It was so great to have my old copper back.: I didn't know if he would ever want to go in the woods again.

No turtles this time of year, but we might go on a hike tomorrow and look for shed antlers. That is fun too and we actually found one a couple of years ago. yes - one and only one time but it is the treasure hunt that is the most fun.

I do want to get the Sam-E/Milk thistle you mentioned. He is still taking the much more expensive Denamarin since I had already bought it. He has now been off antibiotics for at least a month so I am hoping that will improve his liver levels.

Happy dance all around. I hope your gorgeous crew (I loved the geriatric pic) are all doing well.


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## goldencontriever3 (Nov 7, 2008)

That is wonderful news!! Hope Copper continues to feel like a youngster. We are so happy for you both!


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## desilu (Nov 2, 2006)

So glad Copper is feeling better! It is hard to watch them when they are uncomfortable!


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Glad to hear Copper is feeling good! Glycoflex III is amazing, Casey has been taking it since October and he's getting around great. I order it from amazon.com- entirelypets seller for a great price.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

That is just great news. Sounds like all the stuff you are doing is working for him.


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## AtticusJordie (Aug 15, 2006)

That's fantastic! Atticus has been taking Glycoflex II--it has done wonders for him, too!

Way to go Copper! You're lucky you have such a wonderful mom 

SJ


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## MillysMom (Nov 5, 2008)

I'll have to try the massages with Milly. I just started the heating pads - she has some back arthritis that bothers her more in the cold - and she loves them! Finding a good joint supplement can be a wonderful feeling!


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## 3SweetGoldens (Feb 28, 2007)

I am so happy to hear that this supplement and all your care has really seemed to help Copper! He must be feeling like a youngster again!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

> I do want to get the Sam-E/Milk thistle you mentioned. He is still taking the much more expensive Denamarin since I had already bought it. He has now been off antibiotics for at least a month so I am hoping that will improve his liver levels.


First, great news that Copper is so active with the new supplementation and treatments. You must have smiling all the way down the trail! I wanted to also mention that when we took Barkley in on thursday to the vets I loaded his vitamins/supplments/prescriptions in a backpack and took them with me. We started him on the Sam-E milk thistle supplement (it starts with a D but isn't the one you mentioned-- I'll find the name and get it to you). The vet didn't know we had started this and told me the new research shows it actually helps with arthritis/orthopedic issues. We were taking it for the cognitive benefits and didn't realize it helped his hips! I got ours through Entirely Pets.com. 

My brain is in a fog so forgive me if we've already discussed this: have you tried Dausuquin too? It has some extra stuff that is supposed to help. I honestly don't know if it has helped Barkley or not though.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Dallas Gold - I'd like to know the name of the supplement you vet recommended. I'm open to trying anything to give him a better quality of life. I don't know about the Dausuquin. I'll have to look it up. Unfortunately, my vet does not recommend any supplements. I think I am going to switch vets (for many reasons), but I have had to seek out the information from the forum. Thank goodness you guys are here to help me with old dog issues (and others).

I really think the electric massager is helping a lot. He stretches his legs out and seems to really enjoy it. It is not a really strong one. I think that would be too much for him.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

coppers-mom said:


> Dallas Gold - I'd like to know the name of the supplement you vet recommended. I'm open to trying anything to give him a better quality of life. I don't know about the Dausuquin. I'll have to look it up. Unfortunately, my vet does not recommend any supplements. I think I am going to switch vets (for many reasons), but I have had to seek out the information from the forum. Thank goodness you guys are here to help me with old dog issues (and others).
> 
> I really think the electric massager is helping a lot. He stretches his legs out and seems to really enjoy it. It is not a really strong one. I think that would be too much for him.


Dausaquin is made by the same people as cosequin. It's the "next generation" of glucosamine/chondroitin/ MSM. It's worked wonders for my two who use it (not the goldens), and I am giving less than I did of the cosequin DS


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

Glad to hear the sup's and massage is working. They both did wonders for Sam. I didn't use an electric massager, but will look into it for Ike, when he enters his Golden years. I do massage Ike manually, he loves it. One of the few times he'll stand still.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Copper's Mom: The supplement we were using is only Sam-E (veterinary quality) named Denestra. One of the vets we saw Friday said this is now proving to help with arthritic issues--but I'm going to ask again. I thought this had milk thistle in it and now I see it doesn't. I'll get a second opinion next week and let you know. I want to make sure it was the Sam-E, not the Milk Thistle that they think helps with the arthritis.

We use a small tiny hand massager we got at Walgreens on Barkley. He loves it! The veterinary hospital we use just got a certified sports medicine veterinarian and she supposedly has a hold handful of new massing toys/tools. We are going to be meeting with her next week to come up with a PT plan for Barkley. He is very stiff from his surgery and our hope is to help with his healing through massage and good therapy. Maybe if our prayers are answered and he gets a good diagnosis he will be back walking our neighborhood streets in no time!


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

This is terrific news that Copper is feeling so perky from his supplements and massages! You're a great doggie momma....


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Dallas Gold said:


> First, great news that Copper is so active with the new supplementation and treatments. You must have smiling all the way down the trail! I wanted to also mention that when we took Barkley in on thursday to the vets I loaded his vitamins/supplments/prescriptions in a backpack and took them with me. We started him on the Sam-E milk thistle supplement (it starts with a D but isn't the one you mentioned-- I'll find the name and get it to you). The vet didn't know we had started this and told me the new research shows it actually helps with arthritis/orthopedic issues. We were taking it for the cognitive benefits and didn't realize it helped his hips! I got ours through Entirely Pets.com.
> 
> My brain is in a fog so forgive me if we've already discussed this: have you tried Dausuquin too? It has some extra stuff that is supposed to help. I honestly don't know if it has helped Barkley or not though.


I did an 8 week trial with Dasuquin with Liberty and got good results...switched to GlycoflexIII and she continued to do just as well...muscle mass is coming back nicely. I am still very cautious with her activities..especially when the sidewalks are icy.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Dallas Gold said:


> Copper's Mom: The supplement we were using is only Sam-E (veterinary quality) named Denestra. One of the vets we saw Friday said this is now proving to help with arthritic issues--but I'm going to ask again. I thought this had milk thistle in it and now I see it doesn't. I'll get a second opinion next week and let you know. I want to make sure it was the Sam-E, not the Milk Thistle that they think helps with the arthritis.
> 
> We use a small tiny hand massager we got at Walgreens on Barkley. He loves it! The veterinary hospital we use just got a certified sports medicine veterinarian and she supposedly has a hold handful of new massing toys/tools. We are going to be meeting with her next week to come up with a PT plan for Barkley. He is very stiff from his surgery and our hope is to help with his healing through massage and good therapy. Maybe if our prayers are answered and he gets a good diagnosis he will be back walking our neighborhood streets in no time!


 
I'm glad Barkley is doing well - really glad. Will you let me know what PT they recommend? I don't know of anyone near me to take Copper to and I sure would like to know more about how to help him.

That said - we went to PetSmart today since the weather was too icky to go in the woods and he had a great time shopping (checked out EVERY toy there) and got a little workout. He is walking even better today.: I think the Duralactin is really helping with the arthritis (Thanks Jealous1) and the massage has helped his leg (that the vet said was fine...).


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## Duke's Momma (Mar 1, 2007)

Oh my gosh that is super news. Way to go Copper. I can imagine your elation!!!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

coppers-mom said:


> I'm glad Barkley is doing well - really glad. Will you let me know what PT they recommend? I don't know of anyone near me to take Copper to and I sure would like to know more about how to help him.
> 
> That said - we went to PetSmart today since the weather was too icky to go in the woods and he had a great time shopping (checked out EVERY toy there) and got a little workout. He is walking even better today.: I think the Duralactin is really helping with the arthritis (Thanks Jealous1) and the massage has helped his leg (that the vet said was fine...).


You go Copper! I'll definitely post here or PM you if I get any great suggestions about PT. I know I checked out a book at a library on canine massage once and I'll try to find it (there was a video too). If I can get through the construction mess I have a handout somewhere my acupuncture vet gave me several years ago about massage too.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

it is the sam-E that's supposed to help with arthritis. U. of I. vet school has a clinical trial going right now to test it's efficacy. 




Dallas Gold said:


> Copper's Mom: The supplement we were using is only Sam-E (veterinary quality) named Denestra. One of the vets we saw Friday said this is now proving to help with arthritic issues--but I'm going to ask again. I thought this had milk thistle in it and now I see it doesn't. I'll get a second opinion next week and let you know. I want to make sure it was the Sam-E, not the Milk Thistle that they think helps with the arthritis.
> 
> We use a small tiny hand massager we got at Walgreens on Barkley. He loves it! The veterinary hospital we use just got a certified sports medicine veterinarian and she supposedly has a hold handful of new massing toys/tools. We are going to be meeting with her next week to come up with a PT plan for Barkley. He is very stiff from his surgery and our hope is to help with his healing through massage and good therapy. Maybe if our prayers are answered and he gets a good diagnosis he will be back walking our neighborhood streets in no time!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> it is the sam-E that's supposed to help with arthritis. U. of I. vet school has a clinical trial going right now to test it's efficacy.


Good to know! I hope they find it works to give all of us another good option.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

*More on Sam-E (Denestra) for Arthritis*

I thought I'd follow up this thread with what I learned today at the vets about Sam-E. 2 vets told me that they are seeing marked anti-inflammatory improvements in dogs on Sam-E supplementation for over 3 months. There are clinicial trials going on as Hotel4Dogs already mentioned, and the buzz in the veterinary community is Sam-E is a promising supplement for the arthritic joints. They are very excited about the possibilities for this.

This is what we are using (we got ours at Entirely Pets but they sell it for more in the veterinary hospital)-
Denestra (S-adenosyimethionine) 200 mg. 
The label states it supports Liver, Joints and Cognitive Function. 
This one is distributed by Pet Health Solutions
For dogs golden sizes:
35-65 give 2 tablets daily
66-120 give 4 tablets daily. 

We started it right before Christmas for cognitive function. We were given the all clear to start it back up after this past week's break, but we still need a couple of more months to see if it is really working.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

The label states it supports Liver, Joints and Cognitive Function. 

Wow - all three in one supplement? That would be fantastic. I am having great results with Duralactin and Glycoflex III, but I wonder if this would hurt to add to the mix?

I'm going to have to schedule a visit with Copper's internal specialist and see what her take on the subject is. I don't trust my regular vet's judgment (time for a new regular vet).

thanks for the update DG. Hugs to the lovely Barkley.:smooch::smooch::smooch:


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I hope you can find a vet that you feel confident with and trust. This has really helped us with Barkley. He's seen at least 4 of the clinic vets this past week and will see 2 more in the next week for different purposes--I feel I'm getting mostly consistent responses and some fabulous tips on helping my boy. We are really fortunate to have this here, so close to home. I am so grateful.

My favorite tip was last Sunday when the vet said the best thing for him now to heal would be doing the things he loves and giving him a big dose of sunshine, along with a good quality diet. As it happened, the weather is cooperating in January!! Wow! It is even helping to lift my spirits.

I'd definitely run the Denestra by the internal specialist for her take--and let us know what she thinks. Yesterday I was listing what we were giving Barkley before the surgery and I mentioned the Cholodin and she wanted me to hold up on it until she could research if it might have an effect on him post-surgically. Sometimes the combinations can create little side effects you don't anticipate.





coppers-mom said:


> The label states it supports Liver, Joints and Cognitive Function.
> 
> Wow - all three in one supplement? That would be fantastic. I am having great results with Duralactin and Glycoflex III, but I wonder if this would hurt to add to the mix?
> 
> ...


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## molsonsmom (Sep 14, 2009)

that is fantastic! I am a big believer in massage and supplements! I still massage Molson's hips and even though they are ravaged and wasting away it relaxes him and helps promote good blood circulations besides him just liking the way it feels. At this time very, very gently, but earlier pretty strong.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I am bumping this up so anyone with a dog that is having mobility issues will read it.
I am massaging Copper with an electric massager (Windmere and I will look up the model number), manually massaging him (thanks for the tips DG) and then using a heating pad on him at least once a day (sometimes twice - it depends on my schedule).

At the same time I started this, I started him on Glycoflex III and Duralactin. I began to see improvement in two weeks. It has now been about 5 weeks and it is amazing how much better he is. He was barely using his left hind leg and walked very, very stiff legged. He is now using his left hind leg pretty well and there is very little evidence of stiffness in his walk. Probably none if you aren't looking for it.

I don't know which one of these is the magic bullet or if it is the combination, but it has improved his quality of life drastically. He would not go on hikes anymore before this and now he is quite eager to head for the woods. (See "this is how we celebrate" thread in pictures )

If you aren't comfortable using the supplements I am using and your dog is having trouble with mobility, please try the massage and heating pad. It can't hurt and may help. It is surely worth a shot.

BTW - Copper cannot take the standard meds for arthrititis (rimadyl or deramaxx or any other) due to pancreatitis and possible liver issues so I had to search for another way to help.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

believe it or not, we found out when Toby was 2 that he can't take gluco/chondroitin. It alters his kidney values, esp. creatinine. We don't know if it's altering the lab results, or his actual kidney function.
It's a rare, but not unheard of, side effect. I know someone with a St. Bernard that had the same thing happen. 
Of course it WOULD happen to my Toby...


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> believe it or not, we found out when Toby was 2 that he can't take gluco/chondroitin. It alters his kidney values, esp. creatinine. We don't know if it's altering the lab results, or his actual kidney function.
> It's a rare, but not unheard of, side effect. I know someone with a St. Bernard that had the same thing happen.
> Of course it WOULD happen to my Toby...


Well - shoot! I haven't had copper checked out, but he was on a gluco/chondoitin before so I hope he doesn't have a problem with it.
I am due 1 week's pay (I get 1 week paid vacation every 2 years) and will use part of it to have him a blood test.
I've sent you Pms about the massage techniques I use. I hear the recycling bins being knocked over so I guess Copper is ready to come in and get his massage.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I took a video of Copper's massage and then found out you have to post them on youtube to see them here.

I cannot access youtube from work and I cannot upload video on my home dial-up.

My massager is 12 - 15 years old so they don't make that one anymore......


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

thanks, it was worth a try.
I will look at massagers and then when I pick one, ask your opinion of it!
What would I call them when doing a google search?




coppers-mom said:


> I took a video of Copper's massage and then found out you have to post them on youtube to see them here.
> 
> I cannot access youtube from work and I cannot upload video on my home dial-up.
> 
> My massager is 12 - 15 years old so they don't make that one anymore......


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Look up "electric hand massager". If you want to PM me a ling, I'll be glad to look at the ones you find. I did check that way and didn't find one quite like mine.

I'll take a picture for you this morning. I really think that the most important part is that it not be too strong. No shiatsu or "thumping" types. This one just vibrates. A low and high setting would be nice as well.

I also use a neck wrap that you microwave and I drape it across his hips and leg afterwards. DH thinks it STINKS, but it just has an herbal smell. It's pretty long and I got it at Bath and Body works, but I'm sure they have them at Wal-Mart.

I sure hope this helps Toby.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I found a massager at Wal-Mart. It looks very similar to the one I have been using on Copper. The reviews even mention that these are better for a "surface" massage and don't work on deep tissues. that is just what I need for Copper!
I am going to get another one. They are out of stock on-line, but one of my local stores had them for $14 and had about 8 in stock yesterday. If you realy want one and can't find one, I'll pick one up and ship it to you. Or at least I'll try if they don't run out.


*Conair Heated Body-Flex Massager*

_A body needs a break from life's daily stress, the metal heat plate of this incredible massager gets to the heart of things! Minor aches, pains and sore muscles become a thing of the past when this unique heat begins to soothe every part of the body. Five massage surfaces bring calming comfort to every ached and pain, the larger head is superb for broad areas like the back and shoulders. Conair, Heated Body-Flex Massager, MODEl #WM200_


A body needs a break from life's daily stress, the metal heat plate of this incredible massager gets to the heart of things! Minor aches, pains and sore muscles become a thing of the past when this unique heat begins to soothe every part of the body. Five massage surfaces bring calming comfort to every ached and pain, the larger head is superb for broad areas like the back and shoulders. There is a concentrator knob for spots that need intense relief, and the three textured surfaces work wonders on large and small muscle clusters.
Features & Benefits:
Powerful vibrating action
5 massaging surfaces: large head, concentrator knob, 3 textured surfaced
Heat On/Off
Low/High massage power
Body-Flex multiposition handle
6' line cord


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I can't wait to hear how it works!! We have a ton of Wal-Marts around here, I will check ours if you're pleased with yours!!!


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