# Talk to me about showing your moderate boys...



## Megora

Just use a tape measure or ask around your training club for a wicket.

But as long as he's 23" - no worries. 

And then there are products (bodifier, etc) which + dryer can make your dog look "bigger" than he is.

Now would be a good time to show him since you can take advantage of the puppy classes.

After he ages out of the 12-18 month class, you have to re-evaluate which class to put him in. And most people just go into Open then.

I started my pup at 6 months. But he was a good sized pup. A lot of people keep dogs out if they need to grow. <= Should say, I could not have entered Bertie in shows that early.


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## hotel4dogs

Somewhat depends on where you are located. Here in the Midwest the moderate dogs fair pretty well. Only show in large shows which will have judges that understand what a Golden is supposed to look like, as versus the small shows where they just put up the flashiest dog.
Ask a good handler (preferably one not looking for Golden clients at the moment) to evaluate him.
My Tito is the epitome of moderate. Showed him at 23-1/2 inches, 64 pounds, very little furnishings. He finished quickly and easily with 3 big majors.


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## hotel4dogs

As an aside, there's no reason you can't continue with the obedience at the same time.


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## Rion05

hotel4dogs said:


> As an aside, there's no reason you can't continue with the obedience at the same time.


Thanks so much! Yes, I actually would hesitate to send him out with a handler for that very reason - obedience is my first love and we train every day! This kiddo has a ton of zip that is fun to train but also needs to be in control, lol! I am not opposed to sending him with a handler, just would only want to do it if he was at the point he could be competitive, as that would cut into our obedience training.  Any handler recommendations? 

I am in the midwest - that is so good to hear that a moderate boy can get a look. I see so many males that are more in the 80 pound range - I don't see mine ever getting that large, although the breeder says he'll continue to fill out and build muscle for a while. I see him as a 65-70 dog, at the most (if that!). I'm actually guessing he'll be mid-standard height-wise - he's not short. 

So is maturity something that you can get some idea by lines/pedigree? This is my Finn (k9data link below). It appears to me that his mom pointed young (is size less of an issue for girls?), but his grandpa and uncle finished their GCh when they were 2-4 years old - wondering if that was to wait for maturity?

I clearly have so much to learn!


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## Prism Goldens

I bred to Skye - frozen obviously- he did not add any bone to my bitch, in fact, I would call the litter smaller than she typically produced. And they matured @ about norm.. I would also suggest you do an ICT DNA test- I got ICT from that breeding. 
But super performance dogs! All of them should have been qualifiers for Outstanding producer except I made the error of putting one in a 'I do EVERYTHING' home who has way out of era, so she has done almost nothing- sad for my bitch. Skye is of course already an OS.


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## Megora

> I am in the midwest - that is so good to hear that a moderate boy can get a look. I see so many males that are more in the 80 pound range - I don't see mine ever getting that large, although the breeder says he'll continue to fill out and build muscle for a while. I see him as a 65-70 dog, at the most (if that!). I'm actually guessing he'll be mid-standard height-wise - he's not short.


A dog shouldn't hit 80 prior to middle age.... 

My pup is 65 pounds and very "puffy" (a lot of bone + fluff), and both breeders behind him nudged me about getting a couple pounds off him and keeping him lean. His breeder pointed out that the little guy didn't have a waist.... (I'm not worried about it because he's growing into himself all the time) 

So weight is not so much an issue as proportion/balance. 

Regarding finding a handler - check with Parker's mom (Donna) - I can't remember her member name here. One of the handlers she used (Nikki) - I've seen successfully handling more moderate type dogs.


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## Rion05

Prism Goldens said:


> I bred to Skye - frozen obviously- he did not add any bone to my bitch, in fact, I would call the litter smaller than she typically produced. And they matured @ about norm.. I would also suggest you do an ICT DNA test- I got ICT from that breeding.
> But super performance dogs! All of them should have been qualifiers for Outstanding producer except I made the error of putting one in a 'I do EVERYTHING' home who has way out of era, so she has done almost nothing- sad for my bitch. Skye is of course already an OS.


Thanks - so interesting. This is actually my second Skye son - lost the 1st at almost 14.5-years-old and I jumped at the chance to have another. Skye seems to have had some pups with longevity. Frozen, this time, too, obviously.  8 pups, though, so I was surprised to have so many to pick from! No ICT in my other Skye son, in fact, never had so much as a hot spot. This kid seems to have a lovely coat so far (think mom was clear), but I do want to do testing for NCL, etc., just to know what I have and will probably do a full panel at that time. 

This kid is not super-heavily boned, either, but has more bone than my last Skye son (more of a working pedigree), so we'll see. There are some BIG dogs on Finn's mom's side, so I am thinking they may have wanted a moderate sire. The breeder also loves her prior Skye litter.  I was also impressed that mom's side has a CH OTCH in the lines, too. This pup does have tons of drive and zip, though, and is very athletic and smart. Thank you for the info! So interesting to hear from someone who has bred to Skye!


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## Rion05

Megora said:


> A dog shouldn't hit 80 prior to middle age....
> 
> My pup is 65 pounds and very "puffy" (a lot of bone + fluff), and both breeders behind him nudged me about getting a couple pounds off him and keeping him lean. His breeder pointed out that the little guy didn't have a waist.... (I'm not worried about it because he's growing into himself all the time)
> 
> So weight is not so much an issue as proportion/balance.
> 
> Regarding finding a handler - check with Parker's mom (Donna) - I can't remember her member name here. One of the handlers she used (Nikki) - I've seen successfully handling more moderate type dogs.


Haha about the weight - I take privates with an OTCH-level trainer who will comment if a dog gets so much as a pound or two overweight...which helps me keep 'em lean. Then I take my dog to conformation class where I get told to "put a few pounds on that dog!"  Pretty used to that now! Haha!

Very helpful about the handlers - thank you! I'd been wondering about the one you mentioned!

Thanks, again - very helpful!


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## Megora

Prism Goldens said:


> home who has way out of era


I'm literally still trying to figure out what this was supposed to be. LOL. :grin2:

@Rion05 - only caution re weight is some of the performance people out there keep the dogs too skinny for conformation. And it doesn't look that great, especially if the coats are poor. Just like carrying a little extra weight is that great either. 

The dogs don't have to be that heavy. Bertie is middle aged now (last year chasing that darn last major before I retire him) and put on a few pounds, but he's still 72-75 pounds (I think I've got him back down on the lower end of that, but haven't had him in for weight check recently. In his prime (3-4 years old), he was 67-69 pounds. They don't have to be very heavy. 

I think when somebody says put weight on a dog - they want to see them filled out more. Or again, groom with bodifier and dryer to add size. 

Bertie was a slight dog when I started showing him in Open. I complained to a friend who actually used to be a member here (Shelly) about making my dog look like a bigger dog so he could compete against 2-3 year olds and she advised using a couple different products, including bodifier, to poof him up a little. 

I don't have to do that at all with Jovi who has more poof than he should (LOL - but he did get reserve a couple weeks ago over adult dogs which made me happy). But anyway, with Bertie he did just fine with a little extra grooming.


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## hotel4dogs

We did ringside pickup, I never sent him out, and I often showed him in obedience (UDX) and breed at the same shows. It works for some people, not for others.
I've not really shown for several years, so I think others would be better suited to suggest handlers.
Different dogs mature at different rates, with only one exception I can think of Tito puppies really aren't ready to show until they're between 2-3 years old. Tito was the same.




Rion05 said:


> Thanks so much! Yes, I actually would hesitate to send him out with a handler for that very reason - obedience is my first love and we train every day! This kiddo has a ton of zip that is fun to train but also needs to be in control, lol! I am not opposed to sending him with a handler, just would only want to do it if he was at the point he could be competitive, as that would cut into our obedience training.  Any handler recommendations?
> 
> I am in the midwest - that is so good to hear that a moderate boy can get a look. I see so many males that are more in the 80 pound range - I don't see mine ever getting that large, although the breeder says he'll continue to fill out and build muscle for a while. I see him as a 65-70 dog, at the most (if that!). I'm actually guessing he'll be mid-standard height-wise - he's not short.
> 
> So is maturity something that you can get some idea by lines/pedigree? This is my Finn (k9data link below). It appears to me that his mom pointed young (is size less of an issue for girls?), but his grandpa and uncle finished their GCh when they were 2-4 years old - wondering if that was to wait for maturity?
> 
> I clearly have so much to learn!


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## hotel4dogs

A Tito show photo. You can see he's VERY moderate, doesn't carry much coat, and had very little in the way of furnishings at the time.


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## Ljilly28

My moderate dog HipHop 67 lbs excels with specific breeder judges. He was a phenom baby, finishing AM CH from 6-9 puppy. He won a specialty and some group 2s on his way to GCH. He is too small to campaign, but many appreciate him.


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## K9-Design

Hmmmm OK here's my rambling thoughts....

1) I suggest showing in 6-9 class even if you have no other aspirations to show. Pure field or obedience prospects, it's a great experience, they learn that the ring means pets, food and getting lots of attention. They become old hats at dog shows. Now that your dog is 12+ months, you're behind the curve on that
2) Unless the dog is really put together for a youngster or has other really outstanding attributes, being competitive enough to earn points usually happens when the dog is two, three, four years old. Now he's still a good age to show in 12-18 class, which is a class I love, and have had dogs win majors out of that class, but once you hit 18 months they are in no man's land. If you're lucky you can bump up to Open and still be OK. Most dogs need to be put up for another six months or a year before they're ready to come out in open as a two year old.
3) Yes, definitely get a handler or two to evaluate him, and the longer/more mature he is to do that the better
4) Tough love time. Goldens are SUPER COMPETITIVE and THE hardest breed to finish. We have the highest point scale, we are dominated by pro handlers, and we have to groom. Other breeds that check the other two boxes have no coat! (dobes, labs, etc). People with goldens who just want to "show for fun" don't last long, because that much time, effort and money for no results...isn't fun. Dog shows are gross. After the nerves and novelty wear off, it's a freakin bummer not to win. You have to be absolutely tenacious to finish a golden.
Your boy is very pretty. I LOVE Skye. Look at my signature, I have a Morninglo dog!
BUT -- will your guy be ring material? Just looking at his stacked pic on k9data I don't know. Certainly a pretty coat and color but he's really straight in front. Unless they're fabulous everywhere else, that won't get you very far in the ring. I'm saying this now, because few people will give it to you straight up. Fronts are a big problem in our breed, we need to start recognizing them and not putting them in front of breed judges. Caveat -- maybe it's just a bad job stacking or a bad picture. But I also know that Morninglo front....all too well....
5) ABSOLUTELY take him to a CCA when he's old enough!!! You will learn a TON!!! And quite easily earn a title. 

Best of luck,


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## K9-Design

Another thing...showing a moderate dog isn't just about finding judges who don't care about fluff and bone and flashy side gate. It means you have to find judges who don't care about fluff and bone and flashy side gate because you're bringing them a dog who is so correct and well structured that he gets noticed above and beyond the flashy fluffballs. 
"Moderate" but not well structured or an inadequate mover, is just mediocre.


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## Megora

Anney - you missed one. We have the highest point schedule and it doesn't reflect who is actually showing year to year! The majors are tough to find...  MI/OH just lost the Booths and I'm still not sure what's going on with the entries this year as a result.

I was bemoaning the fact I forgot to enter a golden specialty (Toledo) last week - and then I looked at the entries and felt relieved. No majors. 

You have a 5 day cluster this week in Western MI which sometimes gets majors the same time as Cinci. I'm so relieved I picked Cinci again this year, because the numbers are REALLY LOW in Kalamazoo. 

And looking ahead through the rest of the year, I'm not seeing many opportunities for majors while staying close to home aside from big obvious ones like Monroe. The judges aren't that great either.  I can't travel around the country and won't send Bert out, so it really stinks!


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## ArkansasGold

Megora said:


> Anney - you missed one. We have the highest point schedule and it doesn't reflect who is actually showing year to year! The majors are tough to find...  MI/OH just lost the Booths and I'm still not sure what's going on with the entries this year as a result.
> 
> I was bemoaning the fact I forgot to enter a golden specialty (Toledo) last week - and then I looked at the entries and felt relieved. No majors.
> 
> You have a 5 day cluster this week in Western MI which sometimes gets majors the same time as Cinci. I'm so relieved I picked Cinci again this year, because the numbers are REALLY LOW in Kalamazoo.
> 
> And looking ahead through the rest of the year, I'm not seeing many opportunities for majors while staying close to home aside from big obvious ones like Monroe. The judges aren't that great either.  I can't travel around the country and won't send Bert out, so it really stinks!


We lost the Booths?!? When did this happen? EDIT: Went to their website and investigated... So they are retiring from professional handling, but will continue breeding and showing their own dogs...

I think the Columbus show had majors a few weeks ago. Wish I could go to the Cinci specialty, but puppy is still too young and Rocket needs a good long break from Triple Q's.


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## Megora

I think they went back to CA to be closer to family + they are still handling their own dogs.


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## Rion05

Thanks K9Designs - my pup was pulled up very high in the front in that photo and it does make him look straight in the front - you are right! He had just done a flying leap off of the stacking area after tossed bait and we were just trying to get him to hold still (realized he’s also not ready for flying bait)! I don’t have people to help me stack and take photos very often and I just was trying to get one of him stacked. That’s not to say he’s perfect, but maybe I need to lose that photo because he usually does look better than that when not pulled up. Still, yes, goldens are competitive (I did know that) and we may just dabble in UKC and try a CCA. Thank you for your honesty!


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## Rion05

hotel4dogs said:


> A Tito show photo. You can see he's VERY moderate, doesn't carry much coat, and had very little in the way of furnishings at the time.


He's so handsome and talented! Love him!


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## Rion05

K9-Design said:


> Another thing...showing a moderate dog isn't just about finding judges who don't care about fluff and bone and flashy side gate. It means you have to find judges who don't care about fluff and bone and flashy side gate because you're bringing them a dog who is so correct and well structured that he gets noticed above and beyond the flashy fluffballs.
> "Moderate" but not well structured or an inadequate mover, is just mediocre.


I'll admit to borrowing "moderate" from relatives of my dog. Right now that seems to be what he is.  The breeder also said that she's not looking for the biggest dog, but the most correct, but she also wants working ability. I really appreciate the challenge of trying to find all of that in one dog and I am grateful for the breeders who try.

I've always admired your dogs, Anney!


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## Rion05

Ljilly28 said:


> My moderate dog HipHop 67 lbs excels with specific breeder judges. He was a phenom baby, finishing AM CH from 6-9 puppy. He won a specialty and some group 2s on his way to GCH. He is too small to campaign, but many appreciate him.


Phenom, indeed! WOW! Soooo impressive!!!


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## HiTideGoldens

My "moderate" boy did very well in the classes and finished fairly young in limited showing. He also campaigned into the Top 20 and showed in the Top 20 competition last year at the National. That being said, at 75 lbs he is often dwarfed by other dogs in the ring. I've also heard people call him "too moderate" as if that's an insult. Breeder judges have liked him because he's an honest, well put together, well muscled, typey, clean moving dog. However, he's not flashy and is not dripping in coat. None of that bothers me or the people that have bred to him, but the reality is what Anney posted above. If your moderate dog is not a well put together and nice moving dog, you are going to struggle with him in conformation and be frustrated. But if he's a good dog you just need to pick your judges.


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## Rion05

HiTideGoldens said:


> My "moderate" boy did very well in the classes and finished fairly young in limited showing. He also campaigned into the Top 20 and showed in the Top 20 competition last year at the National. That being said, at 75 lbs he is often dwarfed by other dogs in the ring. I've also heard people call him "too moderate" as if that's an insult..


Wow, see and that’s to my point - I understand why you refer to your dog as moderate (and I was using moderate as to size, btw), but...should that be? He’s top of the standard in weight! Yet I know that dogs shown are often bigger and heavier. I would not call a 75 dog moderate - a 65-70 pound male, yes, moderate in size. The comments you share are exactly why I’m asking about moderate dogs - looking at my boy who will likely top out at or below 70 pounds. Very interesting, though, thanks! So really, if you want to show, should weight be an afterthought? Bigger is better?

This isn't directed at HiTide, but I do understand that "moderate" should not refer to lack of quality, btw. This whole line of thinking came out of discussions with the conformation teacher at my pup's class (former handler, now sometimes judge) who really liked him as a young pup. As he became older (and I WAS doing a modified slow-grow on purpose) he commented that he'd be "small." I wasn't quite sure what that meant. People in class told me he "floated" and looked like a "big dog" moving. Now looking at him, I don't think he's short, but I realize he might be smaller than what's in the breed ring. I also know he's related to some males that have been described as "moderate," thus this thread...

Thanks!


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## Emmdenn

So I am still learning..but does 'moderate' in this context mean small? Or just toward the lower end up the standard? 

When people see Denver and ask how old he is many people comment "wow he's going to be a big boy!" (he's not  ) Our trainer said that he probably will get 1-2 inches taller by the time he is a year or so (he's about 22 inches)...and he weighs maybe about 60 pounds right now. He does have nice bone and a heavier look. I would not expect him to be any heavier than 70 pounds when he's done growing. The goldens I see out and about range in size so greatly that I never know how he compares to the breed standard. I wish we were around more conformation dogs.


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## HiTideGoldens

Rion05 said:


> Wow, see and that’s to my point - I understand why you refer to your dog as moderate (and I was using moderate as to size, btw), but...should that be? He’s top of the standard in weight! Yet I know that dogs shown are often bigger and heavier. I would not call a 75 dog moderate - a 65-70 pound male, yes, moderate in size. The comments you share are exactly why I’m asking about moderate dogs - looking at my boy who will likely top out at or below 70 pounds. Very interesting, though, thanks! So really, if you want to show, should weight be an afterthought? Bigger is better?
> 
> This isn't directed at HiTide, but I do understand that "moderate" should not refer to lack of quality, btw. This whole line of thinking came out of discussions with the conformation teacher at my pup's class (former handler, now sometimes judge) who really liked him as a young pup. As he became older (and I WAS doing a modified slow-grow on purpose) he commented that he'd be "small." I wasn't quite sure what that meant. People in class told me he "floated" and looked like a "big dog" moving. Now looking at him, I don't think he's short, but I realize he might be smaller than what's in the breed ring. I also know he's related to some males that have been described as "moderate," thus this thread...
> 
> Thanks!



I totally agree with you. To me 75 lbs is not "moderate" either. It's scary that it appears that way in the breed ring. No, I don't think bigger is better. Goldens are not supposed to be that big.


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## Megora

The way I've been taught.... Moderate is right in the middle. It's ideal. You don't want minimal X. You don't want excess X. And yeah... different people have different ideas of what's minimal or excessive. Sometimes it depends on what they own/favor (meaning comparing dogs). But you are supposed to compare to the breed standard? That's what I've been taught and that's what judges are doing.

You read the AKC breed standard and it calls for a moderate dog - given what we know is out there. 

The height/weights are given in the standard - and they basically call for a dog who is right in the middle. It doesn't call for a 40-60 pound male dog, nor does it call for an 80-100 pound dogs. 65-75 is literally right in the middle. 

Breed standard says these dogs should not be barrel shaped. Nor should they be slab sided or narrow chested. The word "broad" is actually used to describe their rears (which cracks me up). 

Even the color calls for moderation. AKC states these dogs should be shades of gold and neither too light nor too dark.

And fwiw - maybe 5 years ago, one of the biggest complaints people had about goldens (and labs btw) is the dogs are getting smaller. More dogs whose heights are 22.5-23.5" vs 24-24.5" dogs. 

You eavesdrop on conversations on what these dogs should look like and so many people mention long legs and less coat. But the breed standard literally says they should not be long in the leg (ie like a pointer or setter) and calls for a dense coat with a good undercoat, and moderate and heavier are terms used to describe the feathering and ruff. Moderate is not the same word as minimal, but so many people interpret it to mean exactly that.

If you want to read something that literally calls for minimal furnishings, this is from the Brittany breed standard: 

Coat: Dense, flat or wavy, never curly. Texture neither wiry nor silky. Ears should carry little fringe. The front and hind legs should have some feathering, but too little is definitely preferable to too much. Dogs with long or profuse feathering or furnishings shall be so severely penalized as to effectively eliminate them from competition.

In the show ring - some of the most successful dogs out there are not huge dogs. They do have pretty thick coats and seem to have more bone (or the thick coats help give that impression), but do not lumber around the ring. 

What I suspect is going on is the push for bigger bone, thicker coats, and bigger heads. Just dogs who will stand out a lot more. These dogs are nowhere near the actual size of newfie puppies, but they've been compared to them. 

Breeders who breed for a little of that, but aren't going overboard and staying closer to the correct breed standard guidelines - they are said to breed moderate dogs.


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## Ljilly28

My dog Mystic is 76 lbs, and I don't consider him "moderate" the way I do his son HipHop who is ten lbs smaller. Mystic blended into the top twenty and made the final cut of three along with Freedom and the winner Diamond. Both 76 lb Mystic and 66/67 lb HipHop have good heavy bone, but Mystic carries more coat and is neither bigger nor smaller than most specials. Mystic's other son Dreamer is at the top of the height standard and 82lbs. He is not moderate in either the sense of less done nor typical size for specials, and is shown to a whole different cadre of judges bc he has beautiful movement, head piece, and details of breed type like lovely feet pigment and outline. Mystic can be shown successfully to many/most judges without needing to stratagize or handpick, but HipHop and Dreamer both need wisely chosen breeder judges- the opposite camps. All three goldens boys


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## ArkansasGold

This has been a very interesting thread for me since I will be showing my new puppy in the fall. 

So here's some thoughts: Aren't Goldens as a breed supposed to be the most moderate of the retrievers? They aren't supposed to be tall and leggy like Curlies or barrel shaped and heavy like conformation Labs, but they should have a bit more bone than Flat-coats and should definitely be larger than Tollers. Heads should not be narrow like Flat-coats and topline should be level unlike the allowance for being back-high in Chessies. 

Since my boy is small - and I mean small: 22.25" and 55 lb - I'm surprised by how much larger some male specials are compared to him, but I still do not think of them as "big" dogs. 

Back to showing: People always say that it's harder to finish bitches than dogs. Do y'all find that to be true? Do you think bitches should sometimes be shown to different judges than dogs?


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## Megora

I don't think that's true regarding bitches. 

I've just had the impression that they are tough to campaign because the coat comes and goes.


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## Prism Goldens

I think that generally the bitch quality in the show ring is stronger than the dog quality ... I see few finished badly put together bitches but many dogs I wonder how they finished.


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## HiTideGoldens

Prism Goldens said:


> I think that generally the bitch quality in the show ring is stronger than the dog quality ... I see few finished badly put together bitches but many dogs I wonder how they finished.


I totally agree with this. The bitch quality on the west coast, overall, has been much better than the dogs for several years.


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## hotel4dogs

It seems to be somewhat cyclical. 



HiTideGoldens said:


> I totally agree with this. The bitch quality on the west coast, overall, has been much better than the dogs for several years.


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## Ljilly28

To me, moderate/ moderation is one of myriad considerations in evaluating a dog who is within standard. How moderate the dog is is not by definition a virtue, though it can be within the larger picture of what the dog brings to the table.

The easiest dog to show is one who appeals to almost all comers- breeder judges and all breed judges alike. This dog is moderate enough for the clique of judges who obsess about goldens becoming too fancy for their original purpose, and also this dog possesses artistic breed type for a different clique of judges who think dogs should transcend type and display a trademark style; the same dog also suits all breed judges with correct coat, breathtaking movement, and star quality too. It is harder to breed a golden who is the whole package, but there are many examples.

It is harder to finish a bitch than a dog, but much easier to do her CGH. The competition heats up for the boys in BOB.

Any golden within standard is correct size wise, but not always moderate in the way the term is used in common parlance. "Moderate " can be a term that is trying to put forward dogs within that who are less "done : less bone, less coat, less angulation, and head, less size. It can be an excuse, an apology. "Moderate" doesn't include the whole allowable standard imo. Everyone's definition of moderate is going to be interpreted - it isn't a term with one solid meaning. 

All of my dogs are in standard, except one whom I neutered ( Cambridge) for being overdone and over size. I have mother and daughter bitches at 56 and 58 lbs; they are nice and moderate in one way, but in another they are a bit fancy in that they have a ton of typee details. They excel in the show ring . My bitch Lush is not moderate. She is the top pf the standard with lots of coat , head, bone. She was much harder to finish in the classes, but much much easier to special and compete against the boys. 

Some judges prefer dogs near the top of the allowed height and weight standard with beautiful breed type, plenty of furnishings, a more impactful head with great pigment, and good bone. They want beautiful correct movement and "it" factor bc it is a dog show. Those dogs are in standard too, but the term "moderate" wont fit them.


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## ArkansasGold

Thanks for your responses everyone! 

I do not think my bitch puppy is going to be moderate in the way that most people of think of the term. Her mother is big for a bitch and her father I think is pretty normal for a male special, but I wouldn't describe him as moderate either (he is a Percy son). My girl is now 14 weeks and is put together pretty well and holding her structure even though she is entering the really awkward growth stage. She is going to be pretty much exactly medium-gold, will have lots of coat and hopefully a pretty striking headpiece and lovely movement. She has a very nice front assembly that she gets from her mother, but father helped the puppies keep it along with shortening their backs and keeping nice leg. Anyway, we have high hopes for this baby girl, but she is my first conformation dog and I will be owner handling, so hopefully *I* live up to the expectations. She will also be doing obedience and Rally and I am loads more confident about those sports, so at the least she will have back end titles to her name. Thankfully there are some really great Golden people in my area and I will be able to take handling and grooming classes and set up with them at shows, etc.


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## Tesoro

I live in Southern CA. I just finished an AKC CH on a moderate boy (65#). He started at just shy of 12 months and finished at 22 months. I have a less moderate boy as well. Judges tended to prefer one or the other type. Many judges like a more moderate dog. If he has good breed type, a good attitude, no major faults, and correct gaiting, his smaller (though legal) stature will not keep him from a CH.


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## Rion05

So at the advice here, I had a handler experienced in goldens take a look at him. She was optimistic about my goals and said that he might even do better/more than I was thinking...we've entered him in a few shows, which will only help his comfort level later on when I show him in obedience. The idea now is to get him used to what's expected of him when we put on the "show leash." She was also pleased with his "up attitude" and said that will only help him (VERY up dog!). So excited to see if she's right - and if not, he'll be a pro later on at show sites! 

She also said he's not "small." I think it's fair to say at somewhere around 65 lbs, though, he's no BIG DOG. She didn't seem to think that was a problem.

Thanks, everyone!


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## Megora

Woot! Good for you following through. 

I 100% believe that more people should take advantage of puppy classes in conformation to get young dogs more confident and fearless when it comes to being around a lot of noise, lot of people, and so on. That's what people used to do back when I was a teenager and limited registration did not exist and numbers for both conformation and obedience were sky high. 

So show him and have fun. I agree with the handler - he's a nice boy.


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## Brave

Handling classes have been mostly fun for me. It depends on who you go with. There are about three handling classes local to me (within 1 hour drive time) and they are all Thursday nights so I can only attend one of the other. I prefer to attend the one put on by my obedience club cause we know the location and our experiences with the club have been really great. I've had a better time with the club handling classes than with private handling classes (though the attendance is much higher at the private handling class. Last time there were 20 dogs whereas my club class only had 5 dogs). 

I hope you achieve your goals!!!


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## Rion05

UPDATE: Just started with the handler and he won a RWD from 12-18 month class. &#55357;&#56878;

He thinks he's heeling when gaiting at this point (most obvious to me - she hides it pretty well), but I think he's learning.


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## ArkansasGold

Congratulations! That's awesome! Reserves lead to points eventually!


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## Brave

Congrats!!!!!!! I'm so proud of you guys!


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## Megora

I just realized I saw him a couple weeks ago. Same class as Jojo. Lot of dog. ☺ Happy to hear he's doing good.


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## Rion05

Oh Megora, You must have caught him his first weekend out - this was his second! I couldn’t be there (too far and day job) and had to trust the handler would get to know him quickly. Lol! I just used that very phrase to describe him, “lot of dog”...yes, yes he is and he needs many jobs to keep him busy! His play drive is higher than any dog I’ve ever had and I could see him trying to get the handler to play in the ring, lol (which was naughty!). I was able to watch this weekend, closer show, and he was so happy in the ring I realized she wasn’t exaggerating - he LOVES it! That’s what I was really hoping to see - I had zero expectations and wanted him to start to learn this game while he’s still somewhat young. So far, so good!

Jojo is adorable and you must be so proud of him! ?


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## Megora

He kept Nikki on her toes. A lot of puppy stuff.  But he looked good. Did not look moderate or small to me!


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## Rion05

Megora said:


> He kept Nikki on her toes. A lot of puppy stuff.  But he looked good. Did not look moderate or small to me!


After seeing him in the ring now, I agree! He's within the standard. :wink2:

Thank you all for helping me better understand all of this! :smile2:


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## Rion05

UPDATED - He won his first AKC point out of 12-18 class today!!! WooHoo!!! Baby step, but so cool for my performance boy!

Last weekend I showed him (oh dear) in UKC and he had a Group 1st. Good reminder for me as to why he might need a handler, though. He dunked his entire FACE (water soaked with giant grin) in his water bowl right before we went in for BIS - clown-boy, oh my! (photo from UKC show - thank you Judge Barbara Burns!)


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## ArkansasGold

Congratulations!!! That first point is huge! Hope you keep showing him!


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## Rion05

WD x 2 weekend (first points!) show photo:










Thank you, for all of you who took the time to offer encouragement and advice - this is a new game for us and we appreciate it!


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## Megora

He is gorgeous<:


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## ArkansasGold

GREAT photo! I agree with Kate, he's gorgeous!

Also, you both should come to the big cluster in Columbus in November.


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## CAROLINA MOM

Congratulations! He's a good looking boy.




Rion05 said:


> UPDATED - He won his first AKC point out of 12-18 class today!!! WooHoo!!! Baby step, but so cool for my performance boy!
> 
> Last weekend I showed him (oh dear) in UKC and he had a Group 1st. Good reminder for me as to why he might need a handler, though. He dunked his entire FACE (water soaked with giant grin) in his water bowl right before we went in for BIS - clown-boy, oh my! (photo from UKC show - thank you Judge Barbara Burns!)





Rion05 said:


> WD x 2 weekend (first points!) show photo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you, for all of you who took the time to offer encouragement and advice - this is a new game for us and we appreciate it!


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## diane0905

Rion05 said:


> WD x 2 weekend (first points!) show photo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you, for all of you who took the time to offer encouragement and advice - this is a new game for us and we appreciate it!


He's beautiful! Congratulations!


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## Rion05

It's been a while since I posted, but just thought it would be interesting to update on the boy I suspected would be moderate in size: he's actually now right in standard at 23.5ish at the withers and about 69 pounds. He does quite a bit of running and jumping in training and I try to keep him somewhat lean. I think that may make him actually average within the standard for boys, but perhaps not large among boys currently showing. He took a pandemic showing break and we focused on obedience and agility training, but I hope to start getting him out soon now that he's a bit more mature. More recent photos in k9data link below.


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## ArkansasGold

He looks great in those photos!


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## Rion05

ArkansasGold said:


> He looks great in those photos!


Aww, thanks. He's such a fun boy to train - so smart, athletic, and enthusiastic to play my silly games. 

So golden geek that I am, I saw an old AKC dog breed video on the golden retriever and the word "moderate" is used repeatedly (watch the end portion, especially) 



 I had typically thought of it more in reference to size, but it is interesting to listen to how it was used here. It was also interesting if for no other reason than the history of the breed!


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## Megora

He looks gorgeous!

And WOOT on the excellent hips!


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## Tagrenine

Stunning boy!!


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## ArkansasGold

You should be able to finish him in a flash when/if you start showing again!


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## Rion05

ArkansasGold said:


> You should be able to finish him in a flash when/if you start showing again!


Thank you all! Hoping to get him out again soon! Megora, yes - VERY happy about the excellent hips! Especially with a dog that I hope to also do performance events with for some time. Thank you for all of the advice and kind thoughts!


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