# slow sits, crabbing, lagging, what would your pet peeve be?



## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

They say that every judge has something that "annoys" them when judging. What would your pet peeve be?

Mine would be slows sits!! When I see a dog come to a halt, I wanna see its butt tuck in and hit the ground, not stand there, and then finally sit. it is just something that annoys me.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

All of above..lol!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Handlers compensating for their dogs


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

You know, while I agree with Michelle. my biggest pet peeve is non-natural handling; there is one handler here who stops on the ball of her right foot and it is like waiting for a hydraulic lift for her heel to hit the ground brrrrr


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

My peeve goes right back to training.... 

In training - it's when people with slow dogs don't get the clue and put a leash back on their dog and actually TRAIN them to speed up and keep pace with them. There is somebody who goes to classes at one of the place I go, and whenever his dog lags, HE slows down and practically walks sideways trying to encourage his dog to speed up. 

The fact is, people like this guy become the novice A trainers who have to endure that embarrassing walk around the ring while their dog is meandering somewhere else in the ring. 

I guess when I see the lagging in the ring, I ALWAYS think about what must be going on when they train at home.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Cheaters, people who double handle and don't think people see... I can't believe they think they are clever enough that people don't see... Okay.. off my soapbox! ROFL..


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

I don't like to see double handling during groups, in particular, out of sight groups. It is just plain cheating but it is done all the time.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Titan1 said:


> Cheaters, people who double handle and don't think people see... I can't believe they think they are clever enough that people don't see... Okay.. off my soapbox! ROFL..


OOPS, we must have posted at the same time. Wise minds think alike....


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

You betcha!:wave:...

There are a ton of people who are out there doing their thing.. honestly and kuddos to them.. But there are the ones who get away with things the rest of would not dream of even trying..because of whatever reason. I believe we all pay for the privilege of showing and should be judged fairly. I believe most judges do a wonderful job....


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

Titan1 said:


> You betcha!:wave:...
> 
> There are a ton of people who are out there doing their thing.. honestly and kuddos to them.. But there are the ones who get away with things the rest of would not dream of even trying..because of whatever reason. I believe we all pay for the privilege of showing and should be judged fairly. I believe most judges do a wonderful job....


You mean the people who are suddenly sitting ringside when it is time for the open stays, or the people that don't cough all day, but suddenly cough loudly when their friend's dog is doing stays? I saw a very poor example of that at our last show! The judge actually turned around and looked at the person


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Stretchdrive said:


> You mean the people who are suddenly sitting ringside when it is time for the open stays, or the people that don't cough all day, but suddenly cough loudly when their friend's dog is doing stays? I saw a very poor example of that at our last show! The judge actually turned around and looked at the person


Too funny!! I actually saw this happening this past weekend - Novice stays but the dog was concentrating on the person who suddenly showed up outside the ring who had not been there during the individual exercises. I thought it odd, perhaps not so much.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Fake fasts. That's my pet peeve; when people barely accelerate on a fast ... especially when, instead, they take twice as many smaller steps w/o actually changing pace.


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## BeckyB (Jan 21, 2008)

people constantly looking over there shoulder at there dogs as they lag more and more...
stopping or going really slow on the about turns to let there dog catch up....
lifting your legs really high on the fast but not going any faster.....


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## Laurie Falter (Sep 26, 2011)

For me, it would be people who can't get their dog to set up smartly into heel position at the beginning of an exercise. It seems that a lot of people don't bother to train their dogs on what they should be doing _between_ exercises!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

gonegold said:


> For me, it would be people who can't get their dog to set up smartly into heel position at the beginning of an exercise. It seems that a lot of people don't bother to train their dogs on what they should be doing _between_ exercises!


I agree with this... 

Off topic, but it also reminded me of a head spin moment I had when I was at a fun match this summer and trotted into the ring to the start position. 

The "judge" asked me what level (novice or open) and I told her novice. 

And then she snidely commented that she _thought_ I was a novice because I did a right 360 to get my dog into heel position.  It caught me surprise and I didn't know what to say. Funny thing is I had perfect eyes-glued attention from my dog when she made that comment. 

I didn't tell her I circled right because she was standing directly to my left. But there you go.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

Okay I am new to all of this showing stuff. I know I will learn as I do it but what is double handling?


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Double handling in obedience is cheating. Two of the more common forms might be

A person outside the ring during the Out of Sight Stays that the dog knows and has sometimes even been trained by. This person acts as both additional confidence and almost a warning to the dog.

Someone sitting (or standing) near the go-out spot that the dog knows and has been rewarded or trained by.

It really is sad since the dog being double handled is not being given the opportunity to prove it has been trained to the level required, and is also not fair to the other exhibitors who play by the rules.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Sunrise said:


> Double handling in obedience is cheating. Two of the more common forms might be
> 
> Someone sitting (or standing) near the go-out spot that the dog knows and has been rewarded or trained by.
> 
> ...


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

It really doesn't bother me if someone posts a person outside the ring. As long as that person isn't any closer than the other spectators to the ring, and as long as they are just sitting/standing there. Once I saw a person outside the ring giving a dog sit signals during the stay. Now THAT I consider cheating.


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

I have actually seen double handling on signals before.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

Thanks for the info Strechdrive. I would never have thought to do that stuff. I usually move out of sight when people are doing stuff with their dogs as I dont want to screw the dog up by them seeing me.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Stretchdrive said:


> I have actually seen double handling on signals before.


Okay seriously... you have to PM me and tell me who..ROFL!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I absolutely hate seeing wonderful older/veteran dogs in Open B and up coming front etc with heads down/apology tail wags like they always are scared they are wrong & have been corrected a bazillion times in their lives.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

General V said:


> Thanks for the info Strechdrive. I would never have thought to do that stuff. I usually move out of sight when people are doing stuff with their dogs as I dont want to screw the dog up by them seeing me.


Funny you should say this.. When Audrey and Cash go in I am banished from the area..So you will usually see me hiding in some obscure place to watch where he can't see me.. Cash loves me .. on the other hand Titan doesn't care who is outside the ring.. and does not "look" for anyone other than me..He loves being in the ring and doing stuff's...lol


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I also hate seeing people go give about twenty collar pops on principle before entering the public area/obedience ring. There is a doberman lady who is a particular offender, but it is sadly common.


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

Titan1 said:


> Funny you should say this.. When Audrey and Cash go in I am banished from the area..So you will usually see me hiding in some obscure place to watch where he can't see me.. Cash loves me .. on the other hand Titan doesn't care who is outside the ring.. and does not "look" for anyone other than me..He loves being in the ring and doing stuff's...lol


Doesn't that suck! I tried to watch Jack in utility a couple weeks ago, and inbetween the exercises(articles) he started staring at me, so I left the room. Filly is usually pretty good about paying atteention to me, but I do have video of her from last summer doing a very wide figure 8 because she saw Kori.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Ljilly28 said:


> I absolutely hate seeing wonderful older/veteran dogs in Open B and up coming front etc with heads down/apology tail wags like they always are scared they are wrong & have been corrected a bazillion times in their lives.


Ohhhh.... me toooooo.


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## Lucky Penny (Nov 13, 2011)

Mine is watching people using the choking method with their dogs in the warm up area.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Good to know that you hate it, too. How is my adorable grand dog doing. Her sort of cousin Basil got very sick after boarding, but all is well now.


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## Lucky Penny (Nov 13, 2011)

It drives me crazy. Luna is doing really well. She is losing teeth like crazy! She scared me at first, because there was blood on a toy, and I thought it was from Penny..... But it was Luna! Luna's heeling is really nice, at 4 months she is very impressive. All positive reinforcement! You will have to see! Poor Basil, is she okay now? I hope you had a nice vacation!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Lucky Penny said:


> Mine is watching people using the choking method with their dogs in the warm up area.



"the choking method"????
What on earth is that??!?!


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## Lucky Penny (Nov 13, 2011)

I may of said it the wrong, but it is when people tug at the dog's leash multiple times to get the dog to heel. Basically small short chokes to the dogs neck. I do not know much about it, because I do not use it! I just do not like watching it!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Lucky Penny said:


> I may of said it the wrong, but it is when people tug at the dog's leash multiple times to get the dog to heel. Basically small short chokes to the dogs neck. I do not know much about it, because I do not use it! I just do not like watching it!


I think it probably depends on what it looked like... ?

I use pop corrections early on while training my guy to heel. Not so much in the past couple years since my dog has been polished, but even now I may do a little chain rattling when we are getting warmed up. The type of pop I do with my golden is probably the same type someone would use on a papillion. Very light. And it has to be timed with the right tone of voice and body language to get the right reaction from the dog.

If somebody is yanking on a choke chain or collar enough for people around them to notice, then I would gather they are being really heavy handed. 

Or I've seen people outside of the rally ring and sometimes the beginner novice ring pulling and nagging on the dogs and trying to get focus/attention. <- in those cases, I'm not sure if it is the owner who isn't ready to trial yet or the dog.


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## JDandBigAm (Aug 25, 2008)

Preparing for my first show in Beg. Nov. A last summer, I trained my dog on the show grounds at the end of the day after all the shows were finished. Well, Jonah's martingale was a noisey collar and the chain sounded everytime there was a slight tightening while heeling. We were playing with a tug toy and doing some heelwork with lots of play so the collar was sounding alot. I was reported to the official show people that I was abusing my dog with a choke chain and was asked to leave. I was so embarassed and explained about the noisey collar and that I was in no way even popping my dog with the collar. Anyway, the next day we showed and Jonah did great and I bought him another martingale collar that makes no noise at all!
I'm glad ya'll explained about that double handling stuff. I have never heard of it before.


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## Lucky Penny (Nov 13, 2011)

People can be nasty at shows, that is to bad that you had a really bad experience with the whole collar thing! My dogs are all positive, no chokes or pops, and other negative training methods. They heel because they are motivated to be with me, and they do it beautifully!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> They heel because they are motivated to be with me


I don't mean to argue, but I had to point out that there is always a happy medium... and I think the majority of trainers out there fall into that category. 

With some people the corrections don't have too much to do with motivation. They are just used to stop bad behaviors immediately. Or they help shape the good behaviors so the dog learns faster. The positive motivation (praise, treats, play) STILL has to happen.

Dogs who do get pop corrections or wear choke chains can also be trained very positively and thoroughly enjoy training with their people. And you may have dogs who _demand_ their training time because they enjoy it. 

In my signature pic my dog is wearing no collar at all and there are no food or toys on my person. And I had a very happy prancing dog next to me.


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