# Degenerative Myelopathy, Hip Dysplasia, Born this way?



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

She's dragging her feet? Could be she's tired. Could be weakness or injury to her knees or hips and she's shuffling vs picking her feet up. 

We had a dog who "shuffled" quite a lot... he had good hips and elbows. So it's not always a sign of something "wrong". But if you are concerned about it and it's "new" - having the vet check her out is probably a good idea.

With degenerative myelopathy - I think it primarily affects older dogs. More common in other breeds. Goldens (I think) have something similar, but it's primarily old age arthritis. What we experienced with that was the dogs walking or climbing stairs and having their rear end drop out on them. <- I don't think that's likely to be the issue with your dog.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

We discussed this in your other thread. You agreed she is not displaying the symptoms in the videos.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...ard/308273-left-back-paw-drags-when-walk.html



A vet exam is the right thing to do if you are concerned, but I highly doubt she has DM. It could be any number of things, and your vet is the only one who can tell you.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

If she quickly returns her foot to normal position, she does NOT have DM. Dogs with DM are not capable of correcting the foot because they do not have the nerves making connection.


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Megora said:


> She's dragging her feet? Could be she's tired. Could be weakness or injury to her knees or hips and she's shuffling vs picking her feet up.
> 
> We had a dog who "shuffled" quite a lot... he had good hips and elbows. So it's not always a sign of something "wrong". But if you are concerned about it and it's "new" - having the vet check her out is probably a good idea.
> 
> With degenerative myelopathy - I think it primarily affects older dogs. More common in other breeds. Goldens (I think) have something similar, but it's primarily old age arthritis. What we experienced with that was the dogs walking or climbing stairs and having their rear end drop out on them. <- I don't think that's likely to be the issue with your dog.



It's good to know someone else's pup shuffled as they walked and everything is fine. 
I will get it checked out just incase it's HD.


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

mylissyk said:


> If she quickly returns her foot to normal position, she does NOT have DM. Dogs with DM are not capable of correcting the foot because they do not have the nerves making connection.



Even in the early stages they won't return their foot to normal? 
But, since Sadie has had this for as long as I remember, I'm just estimating a year(it's probably longer), she would show more symptoms by now. 

I feel like I have to rule out every possible outcome that can possibly happen to her. And, I know that's such a horrible way to think, trust me, I know.


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## Anon-2130948gsoni (Apr 12, 2014)

Honey, you have an appointment to have her checked out. In the meantime, put down the internet and back away slowly. Now go snuggle with your girl. 

Try not to waste precious time pre-worrying about stuff when you could be enjoying the time you have with her right now. The only regret I have about my Boomer is that I didn't spend even more time with him, so don't make that mistake, okay?


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Noreaster said:


> Honey, you have an appointment to have her checked out. In the meantime, put down the internet and back away slowly. Now go snuggle with your girl.
> 
> Try not to waste precious time pre-worrying about stuff when you could be enjoying the time you have with her right now. The only regret I have about my Boomer is that I didn't spend even more time with him, so don't make that mistake, okay?



I will most definitely cuddle with my girl. That always helps me to calm down. 
I can't go on walks with her until I find out what this is because the receptionist told me it could be a degenerative disk. Which honestly Sadie doesn't present any symptoms of that. But, who knows.. Looks like Sadie and I will just take it easy in the yard for a week and have some one on one time.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

SadiesWorld said:


> Even in the early stages they won't return their foot to normal?
> But, since Sadie has had this for as long as I remember, I'm just estimating a year(it's probably longer), she would show more symptoms by now.
> 
> I feel like I have to rule out every possible outcome that can possibly happen to her. And, I know that's such a horrible way to think, trust me, I know.


Not being aware of the foot turning under and not correcting it is one of the first things people notice when a dog begins to show signs of DM. That and the unsteady, wobble walk they start having.

You really need to quit looking for horrible things to be wrong with her and just enjoy her.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Why don't you get an earlier appointment so you can stop worrying.


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

This is the soonest appointment I could get her in.


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

And, I'm not as worried as I was. I will have it checked out for my peace of mind.


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

Honestly, myself, I wouldn't be concerned.... Our two labs back home do it on walks a fair amount and I've never worried. Even Beamer does it every once in a while on a walk. -shrugs- Unless you are seeing other signs of something, then I might be concerned. But if you want peace of mind, of course go to that vet appointment...


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Rainheart said:


> Honestly, myself, I wouldn't be concerned.... Our two labs back home do it on walks a fair amount and I've never worried. Even Beamer does it every once in a while on a walk. -shrugs- Unless you are seeing other signs of something, then I might be concerned. But if you want peace of mind, of course go to that vet appointment...



That's good to know other doggies do this as well. 
You know, the more I'm thinking about this, the more I'm talking myself out if going to the vet. IF she does have DM, there isn't anything that I could do, except make her comfortable. And, IF she does have anything else, she isn't showing any symptoms of it. So, I'm thinking this will be a game of wait and see. 
I feel better knowing that other healthy dogs do this as well.


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

How old is your pup? If she is on the younger side, I highly doubt she has DM.


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Man, this morning before her breakfast she gets the "zoomies" and she was jumping up on my bed, makes a lap around the house, jumps on my bed again, and then sits at her bowl. If this dog has DM or HD, she sure isn't showing it. LOL


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Rainheart said:


> How old is your pup? If she is on the younger side, I highly doubt she has DM.



She is just 2 years old.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I don't understand why you are concerned about DM or HD.


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

If she's just two... then why are you thinking DM? If you are concerned about her hips, you could get some rads done and send them to OFA. IDK I agree with mylissyk I don't see a need to be concerned. This is coming from a very overprotective momma who worries a lot over little things (and more being a vet student...) Just my opinion


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

mylissyk said:


> I don't understand why you are concerned about DM or HD.



Only because of her scraping her nails on walks. When I looked up 'dog scrape nails on walks' every article is about DM. That's why I was concerned.


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

I could look up Migraines on Dr. Google as a symptom and come to the realization I have brain cancer. Google is a blessing and a curse sometimes


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Rainheart said:


> I could look up Migraines on Dr. Google as a symptom and come to the realization I have brain cancer. Google is a blessing and a curse sometimes



Good God, is that the truth!!!!!!!

I really should get my internet disconnected. Lol


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

Try not to worry so much  I know we all do it, but I think your Sadie girl is just fine ^^


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Rainheart said:


> Try not to worry so much  I know we all do it, but I think your Sadie girl is just fine ^^



Thank you so much for all of your information. It really helps talking to other owners and hear their experience with the breed and dogs in general. Sadie is my first dog, so she is like my first child.


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

I'll upload a video of Sadie's walk.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Since Sadie is 2 years old - probably is a good idea having her hips checked. I believe in having them done since I own active dogs who I ask to jump and do all kinds of crazy stuff. But it falls under preventive health imo. 

You can do the OFA's, but sometimes depending on the experience of the crew doing the hips/elbows, you can get a lot of good feedback on the rads without sending out to OFA (OFA's as far as sending them in for grades - aren't that expensive - so you might as well do them, but some people get weird about doing them for nonbreeding dogs).


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Megora said:


> Since Sadie is 2 years old - probably is a good idea having her hips checked. I believe in having them done since I own active dogs who I ask to jump and do all kinds of crazy stuff. But it falls under preventive health imo.
> 
> You can do the OFA's, but sometimes depending on the experience of the crew doing the hips/elbows, you can get a lot of good feedback on the rads without sending out to OFA (OFA's as far as sending them in for grades - aren't that expensive - so you might as well do them, but some people get weird about doing them for nonbreeding dogs).



Yeah, I'm thinking on doing that. She does get her hips X-rayed next Wednesday. 
She sways her hips dramatically when she is tired, is that normal for a golden retriever?


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

http://youtu.be/KgsaOGPJ4Ns

Here is Sadie walking.


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Would she be able to feel me tickle her foot if she had DM?


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

Still not sure why you are on the subject- she looks like a normal dog to me (much like my Beamer boy when walking). Relax, really!


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Okay okay okay. I will. Lol I'm sorry!


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

SadiesWorld said:


> Would she be able to feel me tickle her foot if she had DM?


NO, DM kills the nerve connection to the legs, that's why dogs with DM don't turn their foot back over. 

What other DM symptoms beside scraping a nail is she showing? Does she have any of these symptoms? I'm going to take a wild guess and say no she doesn't.


Progressive weakness and incoordination of the rear limbs are often the first signs
muscle weakness and loss in rear legs
Tremors of the rear legs
lack of coordination. 
staggering and wobbling
Stumbling
dragging one or both rear paws (not just scraping a nail), enough that nails are worn down
Wearing of the inner digits of the rear paws
stands with its legs close together and may not correct an unusual foot position
incontinence 
considerable difficulties with both balance and walking
extensive paralysis of the back legs. 

She walks fine in the video, a lot of Goldens have a sway, it's nothing to worry about.

Just scraping a nail when she walks is not a symptom, she would have a dozen other OBVIOUS and alarming symptoms if the really did have it. I'm beginning to wonder if you want her to have DM!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

She is very straight thru the stifle..and it makes her move stilted. I have seen dogs who move like this who have passing hips...


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Sally's Mom said:


> She is very straight thru the stifle..and it makes her move stilted. I have seen dogs who move like this who have passing hips...



And, would that mean HD?


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

mylissyk said:


> NO, DM kills the nerve connection to the legs, that's why dogs with DM don't turn their foot back over.
> 
> What other DM symptoms beside scraping a nail is she showing? Does she have any of these symptoms? I'm going to take a wild guess and say no she doesn't.
> 
> ...




It is the LAST thing I ever want her to have!!
I just wanted to know all of the symptoms that come along with it so I can rule them out. 
Thank you for the list though.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I complete sympathize with Internet Hypodogchondria bc I have it constantly.

A friend had a smooth collie with DM. It progressed relentlessly, and he had a cart from Eddie's Wheels ( he was 11 or 12). He has sores from dragging his feet- it was heartbreaking but went from 0 to 60 very fast.


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Ljilly28 said:


> I complete sympathize with Internet Hypodogchondria bc I have it constantly.
> 
> 
> 
> A friend had a smooth collie with DM. It progressed relentlessly, and he had a cart from Eddie's Wheels ( he was 11 or 12). He has sores from dragging his feet- it was heartbreaking but went from 0 to 60 very fast.



Poor baby!!!!
It is terrifying and so heartbreaking.


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Ljilly28 said:


> He has sores from dragging his feet- it was heartbreaking but went from 0 to 60 very fast.



So it was a quick progression?


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Okay guys I know that you don't want to hear it, but I have to vent. 
I've been flipping Sadie's paw under and in her right side she flips it back up quickly and in her left side it takes a second. 
I know I jump to conclusions, but I'm extremely scared for her. I have a vets appointment at 5:15 on Tuesday now.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Sadie*

Try to calm down.
I'm sure the vet will be the best person to assess her.
I'm not a vet, but I watched her video and she looks like she walks fine.
My Golden, Smooch, who crossed the Bridge at about 12 years old, sometimes dragged her paw, nails on the sidewalk on a walk, and to my knowledge she did not have hip dysplasia or DM.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

SadiesWorld said:


> Okay guys I know that you don't want to hear it, but I have to vent.
> I've been flipping Sadie's paw under and in her right side she flips it back up quickly and in her left side it takes a second.
> I know I jump to conclusions, but I'm extremely scared for her. I have a vets appointment at 5:15 on Tuesday now.



Just a thought, but I get the idea that you have been performing this test on her fairly frequently. She may be pausing because she believes you want her paw there or because she is getting used to you putting it there. Take a deep breath and let her enjoy the weekend. Your vet will check everything out Ina few days.... Nothing you do between now and then will make much difference. 

Julie and the boys


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Jersey's Mom said:


> Just a thought, but I get the idea that you have been performing this test on her fairly frequently. She may be pausing because she believes you want her paw there or because she is getting used to you putting it there. Take a deep breath and let her enjoy the weekend. Your vet will check everything out Ina few days.... Nothing you do between now and then will make much difference.
> 
> Julie and the boys



That is what I was thinking as well. I will let her be and I'll try to stop over thinking and worrying. The neurologist knows far more than I do, and as you said, there isn't anything I can do as of now.


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Karen519 said:


> Try to calm down.
> 
> I'm sure the vet will be the best person to assess her.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much!
I will stop freaking out. And, I'll post an update on Tuesday after the appt. I'll also stop "testing" her paws.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

SadiesWorld said:


> And, would that mean HD?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sally's Mom View Post
She is very straight thru the stifle..and it makes her move stilted. I have seen dogs who move like this who have passing hips...



"Passing hips" means they passed the test and DO NOT have hip displaysia.


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

mylissyk said:


> Quote:
> 
> Originally Posted by Sally's Mom View Post
> 
> ...



Okay, I thought it meant her hips were literally passing.


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Okay guys, 
Later tonight after work I came home and refrained from doing the paw test and did it and she is flipping it normally again. I think the reason why she was leaving it folded longer was because I was doing the test frequently and she probably thought I wanted her paw to be like that.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

You really just need to stop doing it at all. It's totally unnecessary. If she was unable to correct her foot, she would be turning it under herself without control of how it's placed.


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

mylissyk said:


> You really just need to stop doing it at all. It's totally unnecessary. If she was unable to correct her foot, she would be turning it under herself without control of how it's placed.



I know. I have refrained on doing it today. She is acting like her nerdy self.


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Okay, we are on our way to the vets for an urinalysis and a check up on this nail scuffing. Please say a little prayer and Wish us luck!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Any updates? I really hope they told you she is perfectly fine!


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Alright, we have great news!
The vet looked at her gait and did a neurological test and she wasn't concerned at all.  she said Sadie is a happy and healthy dog. She isn't concerned about HD either.

Thank you all for your information and support. I feel relieved and can sleep somewhat better knowing all is a okay! I know that I am the annoying hypochondriac, so thank you for dealing with me. Lol


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I have sudden onset dog hypochondria sometimes too, so you are among friends.


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Ljilly28 said:


> I have sudden onset dog hypochondria sometimes too, so you are among friends.



LOL thank you! I love these forums because I can cope with others.


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Hey all. I thought I'd give an update on Sadie. I've been giving her some hip and joint supplements and her scraping of the foot has come to a minimal. Which is awesome! She doesn't do it as often. Now I'm noticing she stumbles once in a while if she is on my bed or on uneven ground. She may have done this before and I'm just noticing this now. She never does this on even ground. And she still is quick to flip all of her paws over. 
Do your dogs do this?


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

And the stumbles are extremely subtle.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

She probably is catching her feet on the bed covers as they sink down into them. If you tried to walk across your bed you would probably catch your feet and stumble too


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Yes, that's true. 
But what about when she is outside? She did it today and it looked like her right knee buckled under her and she had to catch herself. 
Has your dogs ever done this?


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

There is nothing wrong with your dog! And why are you still turning her feet under, the vet told you there is no neurological problem so you shouldn't be doing that to her at all. Stop looking for problems that don't exist.


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Hey guys thought I'd give you guys an update and ask your opinion. Over the weekend we went to the beach and we were walking in the sand. Well I noticed that the back paw prints in the sand had these long nail marks in them at almost every step.








But on her walks her scuffing hasn't progressed. Do your dogs do this while walking in the sand?


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Here is a pic mid scrape


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Mine will leave marks like that if I haven't trimmed her nails.


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

She had just got her nails trimmed that day. Though they were still a bit long.


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## LUCKYme (Mar 29, 2015)

My boys foot prints are like that, he has severe HD in the right hip and a replaced left hip.


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

LUCKYme said:


> My boys foot prints are like that, he has severe HD in the right hip and a replaced left hip.



Sorry to hear about your boys HD!


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## LUCKYme (Mar 29, 2015)

SadiesWorld said:


> Sorry to hear about your boys HD!


Thank you  He is doing extraordinary well with the replaced hip bearing most of his weight. One would never know he is 11 as he runs around like a mad man!


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

LUCKYme said:


> Thank you  He is doing extraordinary well with the replaced hip bearing most of his weight. One would never know he is 11 as he runs around like a mad man!



AWH what a sweetheart!!! Glad he is doing well!
What do you do to manage his HD?


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## LUCKYme (Mar 29, 2015)

SadiesWorld said:


> AWH what a sweetheart!!! Glad he is doing well!
> What do you do to manage his HD?


Honestly, after replacing his one hip he has very little discomfort on his back end as the new hip does all the work. Lucky does also have elbow dysplasia. Pending his liver biopsies that we did next week, we have been talking with his orthopedic surgeon about doing a elbow replacement next month. But for now we manage his pain with Rimadyl, Tramadol and Adequan Injections. Lucky also gets Dasequin Advanced and we were doing laser therapy which worked wonders for about a year. Because he is on pain meds we also give him Denamarin to protect his liver. Because of his HD we also have bought an incredible ramp by PetStep and we use it everywhere, there is no jumping on or off anything and it is great for the days when he is sore as we put it on the stairs off the deck.


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## SadiesWorld (Nov 13, 2012)

Hey guys just an update on Sadie! 
She has been doing well on walks. She was stretching today and when she stretched out her back leg her foot knuckled over but she immediately corrected it. Which I take as a good sign?


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