# Educating the Public on Puppy Mills & High Volume Breeders



## MyBaileyGirl (Jun 11, 2008)

You guys have all taught me a lot! If that helps...
I've shared what you've all informed me of with others, and I'm sure they'll share as well. Snowball effect


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## esSJay (Apr 13, 2009)

Hard to say... I do my best to educate my friends and family who are interested in getting a puppy to choose a reputable breeder or rescue rather than a mill pup or byb. I even offered to help them with their research. 

While a few have listened, others simply have no idea what the difference between a pet store puppy and a reputable breeder puppy is, aside from cost. 

A former coworker of mine recently got a dog (GSD + Boxer mix) "with papers"... at 6 weeks old, from a pet store, but she swears that it was not a normal pet store or a puppy mill puppy. She said "it was really clean inside and I think good, real breeders actually bring their puppies there to sell them". It broke my heart to tell her that no reputable breeder would sell their pups there to strangers, nor would they let them go home so young, among many other differences. She's a really sweet person but obviously didn't know what kind of research she should have done beforehand.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I always am talking to people and a couple have have even changed their minds about getting a dog from a pet store. It amazes me with puppy mills show being on Oprah, stories about raids of mills on the news, animal planet shows and people still dont know they exist. Or that the Amish are some largest of the puppy mill breeders.


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## Rob's GRs (Feb 25, 2007)

I think some have learned the differences, especially when it appears on shows like Oprah. I think more know now than may be they did 10 years ago. But as for the masses I am guessing it will still be many more years before we could see more of a change for the good.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I guess I am cynical, but I think people are hearing about them, but then ignore the information and go on to buy from petstores or HVBs. I think part of it is that we live in a "I want it and I want it now" world, to heck with all the other poor animals that are suffering because of their supporting the mills and HVBs. They got what they wanted and they will go on their merry little ways.


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## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

I think a lot of people see the Oprah shows and news stories about puppy mills and have this idea that those types of horrific things only happen far away from them and they have no direct link to them. I don't think most people make the link that is necessary in knowing that most pet stores, online puppy brokers, etc. get their puppies from mills and high volume breeders. People are still easily fooled by the whole "the puppy has papers, therefore it must be from a reputable breeder" argument.
I keep doing my best to educate and talk to people about the many reasons not to rush into buying a puppy and to do all the appropriate homework before making that kind of important decision, and I know a lot of people on this forum are doing their best as well. So hopefully it will eventually make a difference.


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## buckeyegoldenmom (Oct 5, 2008)

Sometimes I feel like I am talking to a brick wall, when I try to educate my friends about puppy mills and pet stores. They either believe the crap from the pet stores about their puppies all come from reputable breeders, or they aren't patient enough to look for a truly "reputable breeder".

And of course there is always the argument they give me that they don't care about owning a show dog they just want a good pet!


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## Tahla9999 (Nov 21, 2008)

Well, I put the first option but after considering it, I have to go with the ''they don't care'' option( can anyone make that happen).

In my family, I love dogs the most overall, but they like them as well. However, they aren't interesting in looking up reputable breeders, paying 1000 dollars for a good dog, and would rather get a purebred from a BYB who sells for 300 than go to a rescue(not sure why). They are not the ''it is just a dog'' type, but you wont see them caring about where the dog came from, just what they are going to do with THAT dog. I believe most people are like that.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

One problem is that many people buy pets impulsively...they drive by a house with a sign out front about "puppies" and on a whim they stop in and the puppies are so cute...


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

People who walk into pet stores and buy a puppy don't know, or don't care about the puppy mills. Unfortunately there is a massive population of people who don't know or don't care, so pet stores will continue to sell puppies.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

For the most part, I think our education efforts have been helping. Now, it seems, the "designer dog/hybrid" business (often mills/HVB's in disguise) are getting the business...


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

The Education efforts have made a tremendous difference when compared to 15 or 20 years ago. There used to be pet shops in every little shopping mall but not anymore. Changes on a cultural level takes time. Things have changed and continue to change. 

This society lacks patience. They want everything NOW and they aren't happy about waiting for anything.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

I voted that people are listening. Especially about puppy mills I think it has helped to have the national "exposes" on TV. In my area you don't see petstores that carry puppies. 

But as far as high volume breeders, There's just not as much info out about them. So there are a lot of people that are not educated. What I know about them I have learned here. i have shared that info but what about all the people that don't have access to GRF our one of us.

But that is just my area, which is an area that when I mention clearances, they have no idea what I mean, because all that matters is that the dog is AKC that means it's a quality dog.


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## goldensmum (Oct 23, 2007)

Certainly here in the uk, puppy farms are still churning out pups - a case highlighted some weeks ago in which both the local council who issued the licence and the rspca ignored the film that had been passed to them by campaigners saying there wasn't a problem. Sadly there were the usual disgusting conditions, sick pups etc.

I think the main problem is that people who have not done their homework go to these places, see the pups and think that they are "rescuing" them from an horrific situation - to a point they are, but by doing this they are also "encouraging" the people to continue churning the pups out, so it's a viscious circle. Until the authorities act instead of turning a blind eye, sadly this practice will continue


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## DebP (Oct 10, 2011)

I think people don't want to know, and think their dog will be just fine like the store tells them.


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## spruce (Mar 13, 2008)

company owning large malls in our state is banning pet sales/encouraging rescue. Just the news about this makes people aware.

Years ago met someone who got dog from "people who really know their dogs...they must of had hundreds of 'em"......I'll never forget that statement.


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## Deber (Aug 23, 2011)

I honestly think people ARE learning. I would love to think they are using the information passed to them, but honestly people will do anything popular. It is beginning to be "popular" to have your dog from a more reputable breeder, as it is popular and cool to have the tag that says your puppy/dog has had its rabies. Now I see many more out walking their dogs (never would have happened 10 yrs ago). Yes people are still buying from the corner sellers and pet stores, but slowly, it seems to be changing. I know because I harp on the girls at work about their pets,they are doing a much better job and we have dog get togethers more often. Slow and steady, one at a time and pray the end result is good.


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## canine_mommy (Dec 27, 2010)

I chose the last option, because a lot of my friends don't seem to take the whole issue seriously... I have shared stuff on facebook, gruesome pictures and videos, no repeat shares or likes or comments... if I share a silly joke, I get at least 10 likes... it's very disheartening. And some of my friends even got their pups from Petland, who I'm sure get their puppies and kittens from mills... It's hard for them to accept the fact, I guess. And if I bring up puppy mills to them, they take offense... well, they need to face the reality, their puppy's mommy is probably still suffering in a cage, although they think they "rescued" this one puppy...


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## Bogart (Nov 14, 2009)

I volunteer for National Mill Dog Rescue www.milldogrescue.org and it seems like I talk all the time about Puppymills and the poor parents dogs and the pups that are taken way to early from Mom. 
It also seems like that the stores in the Malls keep getting stuck with their pups because people get more informed and not buy as much there anymore. Also lots of mills have closed and given up the breeder dogs to rescues.


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## C's Mom (Dec 7, 2009)

Toronto just passed a by-law banning the sale of dogs/cats from mills in pets stores which is great. They must get the animals from shelters/rescues or proper breeders but who is going to determine who a proper breeder is. I wish Craigslist and Kijiji would ban the sale of animals outright (I know Craigslist says it does but they could do a better job). Backyard greeders have got to go.
I think people are more aware than ever but when they see that puppy in the window they cave in.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

Don't let what the HSUS does stop you from donating.

Our local shelters, rescues and breed rescues still need donations. Just be smart and donate to those that are helping the animals.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

I'm glad to see this thread has been resurrected so to speak. 

My Roxy is a former puppy mill momma, she had been abused by the owner. When she wouldn't breed anymore at the young age of 2, he turned her into a High Kill Shelter to be disposed of more or less. Fortunately one of the GR Rescues in my state pulled her from the shelter and took her into their Rescue Program.

Roxy was in very poor physical condition and her emotional state was extremely fragile because she had been both physically and verbally abused.

She was placed into a foster home with a family who was a Foster Home for the Rescue. Roxy had never been inside a house before, had very little human contact before and when she did it was not kind or loving. 

Roxy was Stage 3 heart worm positive, when she was spayed, the Vet found a previous C-section scar that she felt had probably been done by the Breeder and not a Vet. Her ovaries and uterus were infected but soon recovered with medication and lots of TLC.

I had applied to adopt a young female golden girl and when I saw her picture, that's when our journey began. I met Roxy in her foster home, although I knew she was very quiet and shy at that time, I had no idea what I was getting into. I fostered to adopt her while she was being treated for Heartworms, her treatments began in Jan. of 2007.

The first week Roxy was in my home she was terrified-she hid behind the toilet in our bathroom. She wouldn't walk, my husband had to pick her up and carry her outside to go potty. 

She was afraid of any human contact, being touched in particular and would not make eye contact. I spent most of my time hand feeding her, talking to and petting her, I found she enjoyed being brushed, it relaxed her. 

After the first week of being with us, she started walking and venturing out to the rest of the house and even began going outside on her own.
I took several months before she felt safe and comfortable with us-she was afraid of being touched, if you came up behind her or walked past her, she would take off and go hide in the bathroom. 

It has been a very long journey for this special girl, she has been one of the biggest challenges in my lifetime, but one that I have never regretted any minute of the time it has taken for me to get her where she is today.

She will never be 100% or what I call a normal dog, she is still afraid and untrusting of people she doesn't know, but with time she does warm up to people, but it has to be on her terms. She has never really learned how to play, she doesn't care about balls, doesn't retrieve, but loves to swim. She loves her stuffies though and walks them through the house where she will place several of them on her bed when she's finished carrying them around. 

Roxy completed her heartworm treatments in May of 2007, she was cleared medically and we officially adopted her, she was our girl.

Today she is healthy, happy, and very much loved. She is very sweet, gentle and loving. She's a real Tomboy when she's outsdie and an absolute wildwoman at the beach. She has such an incredible zest for life!

She is a big time Daddy's girl.......... She loves her daddy, they have a very special bond and I think a lot of it is because he carried her outside several times a day to go potty. She thrives on and craves attention and affection, loves having her belly rubbed, and will stare a whole right through you.

Roxy will be 7 in Dec., and has been a member of our family almost five years now.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Wrong thread


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

I think there are some that listen,and do not buy, but, there are alot of people that go ahead and buy, you often have them say, but it is a sweet puppy, and needs a home, and love, i can't turn my back on it.


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

C's Mom said:


> Toronto just passed a by-law banning the sale of dogs/cats from mills in pets stores which is great. They must get the animals from shelters/rescues or proper breeders but who is going to determine who a proper breeder is. I wish Craigslist and Kijiji would ban the sale of animals outright (I know Craigslist says it does but they could do a better job). Backyard greeders have got to go.
> I think people are more aware than ever but when they see that puppy in the window they cave in.


PJ's Pets, one of the largest retail stores for puppies, has announced that they will no longer be selling puppies or kittens but they'll be working with animal rescue agencies to find placements for those animals :wavey::wavey:

I recently was at a golden retriever specialty show with my guys and was pleasantly surprised at the number of people who stopped by to ask if they could talk to me about goldens. Most were considering adding a golden to their families after researching many breeds & wanted to do it right!  None were in a hurry to purchase either. I introduced them to a few good breeders and the conversation continued. One was over an hour in length. 

I specifically remember one of the conversations with an East Indian family who never had a dog. Their only experiences with dogs had been in India and it wasn't a positive one. You would swear that these people (& their kids) had read every good book out there about breeds (they had decided on a golden), breeders, training, puppies and how to find a good breeder. Their time frame was a year or more, female, obedience classes absolutely, crate training, yard was fenced in preparation for the puppy, crate was purchased, hadn't decided on food yet but would discuss with breeder....... How refreshing!


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## Sterling Archer (Feb 8, 2011)

C's Mom said:


> Toronto just passed a by-law banning the sale of dogs/cats from mills in pets stores which is great. They must get the animals from shelters/rescues or proper breeders but who is going to determine who a proper breeder is. I wish Craigslist and Kijiji would ban the sale of animals outright (I know Craigslist says it does but they could do a better job). *Backyard greeders have got to go.*
> I think people are more aware than ever but when they see that puppy in the window they cave in.


Well...not everyone has $800+ to spend on a dog from a "good" breeder. Supply and demand. Some people want a $1,500 show dog...some people just want a dog. While I agree with the anti-puppy mill stance, saying that all "backyard breeder have got to go" is pretty over the top.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Sterling Archer said:


> Well...not everyone has $800+ to spend on a dog from a "good" breeder. Supply and demand. Some people want a $1,500 show dog...some people just want a dog. While I agree with the anti-puppy mill stance, saying that all "backyard breeder have got to go" is pretty over the top.


I use to help with Intakes for one of the GR Rescues in NC-we had several young goldens that were surrendered to our Rescue by the owners due to medical issues, all hip related. 

The dogs had been purchased from breeders that were not reputable-most likely BYB. Most of them required extensive hip surgery that amounted to several thousands of dollars-the owners could not afford to have the surgeries done so they opted to surrender the dogs to our Rescue where they would receive the necessary medical treatment and then be adopted to a new family once the dog was cleared medically.

*ETA:* What I posted above in this thread about my Roxy, is to give people an idea what Puppy Mill Moms go through, it's just as bad for the adult dogs as it is for the puppies, sometimes worse. Some breeders destroy the moms that no longer produce by shooting them. My girl was lucky, she was turned into a shelter and was lucky enough to make it out.


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

Sterling Archer said:


> Well...not everyone has $800+ to spend on a dog from a "good" breeder. Supply and demand. Some people want a $1,500 show dog...some people just want a dog. While I agree with the anti-puppy mill stance, saying that all "backyard breeder have got to go" is pretty over the top.


The average life span of a golden retriever is around 13 years. $800 divided by 13 = $61.54/year. $1500 divided by 13 = $115.38/year. The difference = $53.84/year.

Sorry, but I'd rather spend the difference and bring a puppy into my home with health clearances done to significantly reduce the risk of health issues and HUGE vet bills. I recently read on GRF about (2) byb goldens with serious hip issues & vet costs would be in the $16,000 range. $16,000 divided by 13 = $1,230.77/year! But then, it's not only economics


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## Sterling Archer (Feb 8, 2011)

Gwen said:


> The average life span of a golden retriever is around 13 years. $800 divided by 13 = $61.54/year. $1500 divided by 13 = $115.38/year. The difference = $53.84/year.
> 
> Sorry, but I'd rather spend the difference and bring a puppy into my home with health clearances done to significantly reduce the risk of health issues and HUGE vet bills. I recently read on GRF about (2) byb goldens with serious hip issues & vet costs would be in the $16,000 range. $16,000 divided by 13 = $1,230.77/year! But then, it's not only economics


You're entitled to your opinion...which I happen to agree with. However, like I said...the average family that lives paycheck can't afford to spend close to a grand on a dog. By average...I don't mean average as in the average person that can afford to spend a chunk of the work day on an internet forum.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Sterling Archer said:


> You're entitled to your opinion...which I happen to agree with. However, like I said...the average family that lives paycheck can't afford to spend close to a grand on a dog. By average...I don't mean average as in the average person that can afford to spend a chunk of the work day on an internet forum.


That family you refer to also can't afford to spend thousands of dollars on hip or elbow surgery. The smart choice for them economically is to save for a few more months while they research a reputable breeder and reduce the risk of vet bills so outlandish that their only choices are to rack up a massive amount of credit card debt, surrender their dog to a rescue, or -God forbid- allow the dog to live in pain. For the life of me, I can never understand this argument that folks can afford to buy a $500 dog from a BYB but not a $12-1500 dog from a reputable one. 

As to the question in the OP:
I see so many folks that come to this forum, read the info available and really start to get it and change their actions as a result. But I see at least as many who use the same arguments over and over --
"I just want a pet, not a show dog."
"There is no 100% guarantee, so why bother."
"These people love their dogs and the vet said they were healthy."
"I had to rescue this poor puppy from those awful conditions."
"The mom and dad looked healthy and run all over the farm chasing bunnies, so they must be fine."
"I can't afford that much for a dog."

Frankly, I don't know how to answer this question. My time working out in the country has shown me another side of the dog owning public that I don't think I believed really existed. And that frustrates me because it drives home that we're nowhere near as far along in educating the wider population as I would have though a year ago. 

Someone earlier said the problem is rooted in a society that wants something and wants it now. I think those of us on this side of the argument are probably just as guilty. We (and I definitely include myself in this) want *everyone* to get it and we want them to get it *now*. Our intentions are good but we are impatient and at times allow that impatience to get in the way of our message. 

In the long run, I think some people are listening and that if we can reach out to them one by one we may someday change the societal norms that dictate the way in which most people seek out a puppy. But it won't happen overnight... even Oprah couldn't manage that.

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## Sterling Archer (Feb 8, 2011)

Jersey's Mom said:


> That family you refer to also can't afford to spend thousands of dollars on hip or elbow surgery. The smart choice for them economically is to save for a few more months while they research a reputable breeder and reduce the risk of vet bills so outlandish that their only choices are to rack up a massive amount of credit card debt, surrender their dog to a rescue, or -God forbid- allow the dog to live in pain. *For the life of me, I can never understand this argument that folks can afford to buy a $500 dog from a BYB but not a $12-1500 dog from a reputable one. *
> 
> *In the long run, I think some people are listening and that if we can reach out to them one by one we may someday change the societal norms that dictate the way in which most people seek out a puppy. *But it won't happen overnight... even Oprah couldn't manage that.
> 
> Julie, Jersey and Oz


Let's put it this way....my household income is over $100k and I wouldn't consider spending $1k+ on a dog. How do you think the AVERAGE person that's looking at a household income of x<$50k is going to look at it? 

I'm a budget analyst...so I understand what you're saying. Yes...in the LONG RUN...it makes more sense to purchase a cert'd dog, as it'll likely have less health issues. However, the AVERAGE person doesn't have $1k to spend on a dog. The flip side of that is that yes...the average person does not have $1k+ to spend on veterinary bills. 

The simple fact is that 50%+ of people looking for dogs will not ever consider doing what you say. Does that make them bad people? I guess so...in your book.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Sterling Archer said:


> Let's put it this way....my household income is over $100k and I wouldn't consider spending $1k+ on a dog. How do you think the AVERAGE person that's looking at a household income of x<$50k is going to look at it?
> 
> I'm a budget analyst...so I understand what you're saying. Yes...in the LONG RUN...it makes more sense to purchase a cert'd dog, as it'll likely have less health issues. However, the AVERAGE person doesn't have $1k to spend on a dog. The flip side of that is that yes...the average person does not have $1k+ to spend on veterinary bills.
> 
> The simple fact is that 50%+ of people looking for dogs will not ever consider doing what you say. Does that make them bad people? I guess so...in your book.


So because you are not willing to do your part to support this breed you claim to love, you believe that the average person wouldn't either? I have news for you -- most of the families that have dogs from reputable breeders (mine included) are the very same "average" families you are referring to.... dogs from reputable breeders are not commodities available only to the rich, no matter how many times you claim it. You are a budget analyst... you admit that you realize that it's more financially responsible to get a dog from a reputable breeder... you are also a member of this forum and aware of the difference between a BYB and a reputable breeder and the reasons that clearances matter... and yet you insinuate that you would choose to ignore all of that and buy from a BYB... I don't know where you got your dog, so I won't state that is what you did. That's on you, don't project it onto the greater population to make yourself feel better. 

The simple fact is that you simply made up a number (50%+).... false statistics prove nothing. Another simple fact is that many people are listening and starting to get it. Those who don't are not "bad people," and I never said that they were so don't put words in my mouth. In most cases they are simply lacking information and in others they are struggling to see past the dog they own and love to the deeper truth about the "breeder" that produced him. So what should those of us who advocate for this breed do? Give them more information and more time.... we can't just throw our hands up and say "they'll never consider it." There are a great many things that are currently societal norms that one could have argued would never be considered by the wider public. I am thankful that those who advocated for change saw past that fallacy and pushed on. And despite your constant nay-saying, the folks on this forum (and the larger population of breed fanciers and animal advocates) will do the same.

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## Sterling Archer (Feb 8, 2011)

Jersey's Mom said:


> So because you are not willing to do your part to support this breed you claim to love, you believe that the average person wouldn't either? I have news for you -- most of the families that have dogs from reputable breeders (mine included) are the very same "average" families you are referring to.... dogs from reputable breeders are not commodities available only to the rich, no matter how many times you claim it. You are a budget analyst... you admit that you realize that it's more financially responsible to get a dog from a reputable breeder... you are also a member of this forum and aware of the difference between a BYB and a reputable breeder and the reasons that clearances matter... and yet you insinuate that you would choose to ignore all of that and buy from a BYB... I don't know where you got your dog, so I won't state that is what you did. That's on you, don't project it onto the greater population to make yourself feel better.
> 
> The simple fact is that you simply made up a number (50%+).... false statistics prove nothing. Another simple fact is that many people are listening and starting to get it. Those who don't are not "bad people," and I never said that they were so don't put words in my mouth. In most cases they are simply lacking information and in others they are struggling to see past the dog they own and love to the deeper truth about the "breeder" that produced him. So what should those of us who advocate for this breed do? Give them more information and more time.... we can't just throw our hands up and say "they'll never consider it." There are a great many things that are currently societal norms that one could have argued would never be considered by the wider public. I am thankful that those who advocated for change saw past that fallacy and pushed on. And despite your constant nay-saying, the folks on this forum (and the larger population of breed fanciers and animal advocates) will do the same.
> 
> Julie, Jersey and Oz


 Seriously...blah, blah, blah. This is the United States of America. People are free to adopt or purchase a dog however they see fit. The fact that people can't grasp that and are personally offended when someone doesn't see eye to eye with them is amusing. 

People LOVE freedom. However, it's those same people that are often so intent of forcing their will on others. :wavey:


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Sterling Archer said:


> Seriously...blah, blah, blah. This is the United States of America. People are free to adopt or purchase a dog however they see fit. The fact that people can't grasp that and are personally offended when someone doesn't see eye to eye with them is amusing.
> 
> People LOVE freedom. However, it's those same people that are often so intent of forcing their will on others. :wavey:


"blah, blah, blah." -- very intelligent response. I really do find it amusing how you go straight to personal attack and dismissal mode whenever anyone confronts you with logic. Instead of discussing the issues, you make up statistics, assert fallacies as truth and then try to make the members of this forum out to be some kind of doggy Gestapo when you are confronted about it. 

Let me clear something up- I am not personally offended by any of it and I don't force my will on others. I talk to people -- in person and on forums such as this -- and provide them with information. How very un-American of me.... 

Frankly, if all these posts amount to just a bunch of "blah, blah, blah" to you... I have to ask why you would bother reading and responding to them at all? And if you are really of the opinion that this breed is not worth advocating for... well, I have to ask why you would waste your time on a forum filled with people that seek to do exactly that? It seems to me that a professional and wealthy gentleman such as yourself would have more productive ways to use your time than arguing with a bunch of silly freedom crushers. 

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Sterling Archer said:


> Seriously...blah, blah, blah. This is the United States of America. People are free to adopt or purchase a dog however they see fit. The fact that people can't grasp that and are personally offended when someone doesn't see eye to eye with them is amusing.
> 
> People LOVE freedom. However, it's those same people that are often so intent of forcing their will on others. :wavey:


In America, we're often free to do things that are a bad idea because we value personal freedom highly and leave things to individual choice. That doesn't mean that we ought to do all of those things or that nobody is allowed to tell us when we espouse an illogical, self-gratifying point of view.

It's unethical to gamble with a dog's health and to take unnecessary risks with the suffering of an animal. It's also foolish to take financial risks you cannot afford. In America, we're allowed to do both, and I didn't see any post in this thread that advocated a legislative change to the rules of breeding. But just because we're legally allowed to do both doesn't mean we should or that good advice is somehow unAmerican.

Wrapping your argument in a flag is a silly tactic that doesn't change the fact that Jersey's Mom is right.


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## Yarra girl (Sep 15, 2010)

Back to the poll:
Some good news from Australia

Last year I went to a rally for "Oscar's Law" and some action is being LEGISLATED - yay - not a perfect solution obviously, but a big raise in public awareness here in Victoria so I have voted that in my patch there has been a huge raising of awareness.
Also, judging by the public outcry over our Prime Minister ordering ( by her partner, for her 50th) a something-oodle it seems the message is getting out eg mixed breed not designer breed and would have got better respect for adopting from a shelter. 
Also all pups needing to be microchipped by the seller not the buyer ... 

So, no quick fix but the good fight is being fought and will continue 

Victoria to stop puppy farms | Perth Now

In case this link doesn't work: 

_Victoria to stop puppy farms _

_by: staff writers _
_From: AAP _
_October 23, 20117:10PM_
*APPALLED at the images he has seen of abused and helpless puppies, Victorian Premier Ted Baillieu has vowed to put the bite on illegal puppy farms. *

_Speaking at the Lost Dogs' Home in North Melbourne on Sunday, Mr Baillieu outlined tough new penalties, massive fines for cruelty and equipping the RSPCA with new policing and confiscation powers to seize profits and assets from illegal puppy farms. 

Legislation for the powers will be introduced in the Victorian parliament this week. 

"We are not going to tolerate cruelty to animals," he said. 

"These are some of the strongest laws ever introduced to protect animals from abuse and neglect. 

"As a dog owner, I am appalled by images I have seen of abused and helpless animals."

Under the legislation, it will be compulsory for dogs and cats sold in the state to be fitted with a microchip. 
_

_The new legislation will include jail terms, powers to seize assets of illegal puppy farm operators, hefty fines and 10-year bans on pet ownership for anyone found guilty of animal cruelty. 

Maximum penalties for puppy farms operating illegally will rise from $1195 to $20,000. 

Money raised from the sale of confiscated assets would go towards an Animal Welfare Fund. 

The new laws are in response to horror scenes discovered in some Victorian puppy farms where dogs were kept in cages and carcasses left to rot, said Mr Baillieu. 

Until now, the only course of action available to RSPCA inspectors when they have evidence of animal cruelty at farms is to refer their concerns to council. 

The Lost Dogs home managing director Graeme Smith said his establishment takes in 10,000 dogs each year, mostly discarded young adults. 

"These measures will help in reducing the number of puppies born in these sorts of establishments and it will ultimately eliminate them entirely," Dr Smith said. 

Mr Baillieu said the discarded dogs would approve of the crackdown. 

"Certainly these little guys if they could speak, other than with their very charming body language, would say this is a great step," he said. _


Hope this provides some hope, especially to the rescue-workers on the forum - my heartfelt thanks and respect 

Yarra


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Great info Yarra Girl, thanks for sharing!! I'm curious... is this mostly a change in the penalty for animal cruelty + a requirement to microchip or does the law in some way "define" a puppy farm/mill. Is it a certain number of dogs? A certain number of litters? Or is it just any place that is found to have a certain level of abuse/neglect? 

One of the big reasons folks here in the states cringe at the idea of legislation is that the wording all too often would likely encompass reputable breeders -- exposing them to massive oversight and strict requirements that generally would add to their own expense (and in many cases make breeding the way they do -- the right way -- a nightmare financially). If this law works out the way it is intended, I would love to see the US government adopt and adapt it in a way that could work here too to shut down the mills and factories that churn out puppies while destroying the breeding dogs. It would be a huge huge step in bringing people around to working with responsible and reputable breeders, though there would still be plenty of work to do.

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Sterling Archer, I have pretty much never agreed with you... in general, the vets I work with agree that people spend money on what they want to, not what they can afford... to that, I paid $900 for my 3rd golden with a puppy or the purchase price back to her breeder if she had a litter... So, Sterling Archer, that price was ultimately $1800, blah , blah blah...


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

I'm in my 50s now but I remember being in my mid 20s, two small kids, a mortgage, car payment, etc, etc and a husband with seasonal employment. We made the decision that we wanted a golden puppy from a good breeder for our family & we SAVED our $$$$ till we could afford not only a puppy but the costs associated with having a puppy.

Yes, we went for 2 years without a four legged family member but it was all worth it when we brought home that special golden ball of fluff! 

My patience was nurtured by my parents who saved up $700 in 1973 to purchase an excellent quality labrador retriever puppy for me to train & show. $700 was a lot of $$$ back in the 70s and my parents were not rich - my Dad was a bricklayer and my mother a part time registered nurse who worked when my Dad was laid off from work. I also had 4 siblings. I also note that I had to work cutting grass, babysitting and doing odd jobs for the neighbours to chip in $ to assist with the cost of showing - my parents thought that would teach me to value hard work & what you could achieve as a result of that hard work. 

Maybe a pet purchase should not be made in such haste that a decision is not based on quality but lack of $ at that moment. Unfortunately, most people want it NOW and support byb, puppy mills & pet stores :no::no::no::no:

Me, I'll wait till I can afford the best! (& I have 3 of the best boys in the world )


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