# Puppy "training"



## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

I like to teach them to climb in or on a short box - I find it helpful for stays... Plus they just seem to love to do it. 
Waiting for food dishes -nice for baby impulse control.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Oh that's a GREAT idea. Like a "place" mat or box. I'll put one together tonight!!


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

yes, exactly...my experience has been that they much prefer to climb in/on rather then simple going to a blanket or carpet square....so the fun-factor is there with a short box. T


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

perching for hind end awareness is also fun....but the little-wee ones seem to enjoy it more when their little legs get longer ~12-16 weeks old.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I start teaching my guy the puppy class things when he comes home. Some of them are common sense necessary things (walking on leash nicely without pulling or without me having to put anything beyond a regular buckle collar on a pup). Some of them are definitely geared towards competition obedience and instilling good behaviors early. 

So -


"Let's Go" (I do not use the "heel" word until we are actually teaching a competition level heel, and that won't be until competition basics or novice classes). "Let's Go" means walk on my left and in my space, with a loose lead, and paying attention to me. And like everything else, I only use these training words when we are training. I like my dogs to know the difference between when I want them to be "perfect" and when I want them to relax and have fun.
Watch - I mainly watch for moments when I get a perfect watch and praise him for good watch. As he gets older, I will shape the behavior more by luring with my finger and correcting when he looks away - but that's too much for a pup. 
Automatic sits at my side - there's no reason why a puppy can't learn to automatically sit when I stop walking during the Let's Go. I still use the "twelve o' clock" leash + butt touch to teach the puppy to sit perfectly straight at my side each time.
Sits wherever with my hand signal (I point a finger at him)
Downs + down hand signal (the tucking the treat under the thumb, and sweeping it down to between the front legs)
Comes - on long line, or I praise "comes" when pup comes running. I turn my body to the side to avoid giving the front/recall sight picture and I do not ask for sits at this time.
Retrieves - toys placed and thrown. No or limited treats for rewards, because I want to keep the pup from getting the idea that he automatically spits the item out at the end of the retrieve. I'll wait a few seconds and play with the puppy with the toy before asking for a give. The give means a treat comes out of my pocket for him.
Find it - same as retrieves, except I'm teaching my guy to use his nose.
Tricks - spins, paws, crawl, etc...
STEADY <- I forgot this one. I do not use the "stand" word until novice classes when he's learning a formal stand-stay. It's the same idea, but it mainly gets the dog used to standing up and holding steady while I groom him. There is no stay attached.
*Things I'm planning to do early with the next pup whenever he comes -*


Touch/target exercise. I didn't teach Jacks until he was almost a year old and I didn't learn to train it efficiently until recently. 

^^^ I think the main thing is remembering the "short window" when a puppy finds training to be fun. You don't want to train long enough for them to get bored and start mouthing the leash or getting distracted and of course they should still be wanting more "play" time when you release them. So if I'm just training for 2-5 minutes at a time and on one thing in particular, that's enough and I release the guy as soon as I get three sits or whatever. 

I did not teach stays, waits, fronts, finishes, pivots yet... I mainly focused on him learning the above and then I gradually started other things as he got bigger and/or things were introduced at class.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Thank you Megora! That is exactly what I am looking for. In my shop/training area, I have a bulletin board where I am putting all of these different exercises on an index card so I can quickly refer to them. I'm going to need more index cards. :


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

For the field side I would add exposure to a variety of footing and ground cover (grass, tall weeds/grasses, rocks, gravel, logs, etc)--walks where they can freely explore these variations helps them to be comfortable with it once you start up with marks and adding factors to them.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Shelly, thanks! Yes, I need to get him out. Now that the weather is a little better, we will be able to get to some of the areas I like to train the big dogs.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

single most important thing for me is "Watch Me" or some version of it. If they are able to focus on you, everything else is a piece of cake.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

another one that some people teach (I never did and probably wished I had) is "mark" with a piece of food being tossed. Obviously you start by tossing the piece of food about 1 foot in front of them while you say mark. Great fun for a puppy to watch where the food went down and run to get it!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Barb, I can incoroprate mark with my "get it" game. I think Tag is going to be really good at the "watch me". He is always giving me eye contact....LOVE IT!


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Don't forget the lightweight check cord! Use it to help the pup complete tasks correctly so you can praise and reward lavishly. 

At nine weeks I'm usually working on

Name Recognition

Recall ("Here") to front. 

Sit

Let them drag the check cord around so they get used to its presence.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

I learned early on with Dooley to have several check cords! Tag is not without one unless in the dog yard for exploration (and while I am picking up poo). Good info!


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

- On, under, through, over various surfaces, sized objects, etc. I want a dog that is happily interacting with the world.
- Play. Tugging. Retrieving. Chasing. 
- Recalls...restrained recalls, hide and seek, lots of reinforcement for it, I almost always feed the puppy at my side (so...call, turn, run, and while "running" I reach adn feed puppy at my side when he catches up, or if I'm in a smaller space, call and walk a few steps or turn in place, so feeding puppy at my side
- person moving backwards, puppy in front, following. Reinforcement for close, straight, enthusiasm
- Susan Garrett crate-games style self control activities.
- Eating and playing anywhere and everywhere we go
- Moving at my left and right sides


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Depends on what your focus on what your primary function is field or the ring. The advice you have been given is great for the ring but for field training you need to simplify and not try to put in a bunch of commands. Here is what I will do with mine when he comes in Monday.

Retrieving is fun
Coming back to me is fun
In the meantime work in walking on lead, heel is not important until he is comfortable that he has to be near me
Introducing sits no corrections,graduallly working in enforced sits and remote sits and recall.
Emphasis RETRIEVING IS FUN AND WHEN I COME BACK TO DAD WE GET TO DO IT AGAIN. Do NOT take the object he is retrieving away immediately! Praise first then scruff him up and tell him what a good dog he is.
Trying to teach to many concepts to a 9 wk puppy is fruitless,and teaching "watch me" will hurt him in the field. You want him looking out for marks and in hunting for birds not watching you.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

OOPS Sorry SC forgot about the check cord. My bad


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I had a friend who whelped some lab pups and talked about the "rule of 12" which his definition was by 12 weeks the pup should walk on 12 different surfaces. I thought that was interesting. However I get my pups after the breeder so I can not control that. I do however walk them over, through whatever I can. Like Shelly said different grasses but don't stop there. How about walk on a tarp, through a ladder on the ground, on a coiled up hose... Things that would feel weird to their paws. I also have a teeter I can set to 8" so that they can go over something that moves underneath them. As far as surfaces... if it is safe to walk on do it. 

Everything is a game at this point as you know. Enjoy! I am reading suggestions seeing if I missed anything with Gabby. 

I also started word recognition even if I was not training the behavior. For instance Gabby LOVES to carry things around in her mouth. So when she did I would say 'good hold'. When I wanted her to give me a toy so it did not go out to potty with her I say "give". Just using words you will want them to know.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Trying to teach to many concepts to a 9 wk puppy is fruitless,and teaching "watch me" will hurt him in the field. You want him looking out for marks and in hunting for birds not watching you.


Not if your puppy understands the "watch" command is for obedience and otherwise control and is allowed to be more "natural" and go on instinct more for the marks and retrieves. 

Keep in mind that the dog needs to mark and retrieve in utility, but to get there the dog needs to be focused on the owner to catch all of the signals.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Another thing that occurred to me after delving into OB with Missy is that a set of commands predetermined that you are going to use would be helpful in advance. For instance in field work sit means sit and you don't break it unless told. In OB you use Sit Stay. I just use sit and the dog knows not to move. Might be helpful to see what you want to teach your dog to do and decide on the command you want to use and or need to accomplish your goal.
There is a really good DVD by Bill Hillman on puppy basics and it is only about $40.00


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Megora said:


> Not if your puppy understands the "watch" command is for obedience and otherwise control and is allowed to be more "natural" and go on instinct more for the marks and retrieves.
> 
> Keep in mind that the dog needs to mark and retrieve in utility, but to get there the dog needs to be focused on the owner to catch all of the signals.



Keep in mind that when the dog goes to the line in field test or hunting. How do you expect him to see the mark or bird if he is WATCHING YOU. :doh::doh::doh:
I did not just pull this out of my hat. A friend came out with his OTCH golden and teaches how to teach obedience classes. We had some issues with and had to work on getting his dog to look out in the field and not watch him. Great dog by the way and wound up doing well got his SH but it took a while to get him on the marks. 

Also keep in mind that this the HUNT AND FIELD Section


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Radarsdad, what is the name of the Bill Hillman dvd?

*Nevermind, found it. It is called Training a Retriever Puppy ....$129.00 (includes shipping). *That's a bit expensive, IMHO. Sounds like something I'd like to see. Maybe BowWow Flix will get it in.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Training Your Retriever Puppy with Bill Hillman

I am going to follow this one to start, it lasts 28 days. He starts with a pup at 11weeks. I also have Danny Farmer/Judy Aycock Basics through Transistion.

Used Lardy and Evan Graham last time. The more info and techniques you have to draw from the better chance you have to find the one that fits your dog IMHO
More tools in your tool box.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

OOPs got em mixed up. Farmer/Aycock is $40.00 I would defiinitely recommend that one it is a 2 DVD set much more in depth than Hillmann also. But a little different pup method. Believe it or not the Hillman is a little more "Amish" than the Farmer/Aycock. 

Sorry about that!!!!!!!!!!


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

There are several good training programs available these days.

Lardy's stuff is very good (Expensive, but good) but it assumes a certain level of experience upon the part of the handler. It wasn't really put together for the first time dog owner/trainer. 

Evan Graham and Rick Stawski have training materials out there that are intended for the first time trainer/handler. (The video production is better on Evan's stuff.) The materials by these two are affordable for most.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Good info Swampcollie! Though I have trained several dogs (emphasis on obedience) I do have some field experience. I have both Lardy and Graham programs. Their stuff starts with a little older pups other than a short chapter in Evans work with Anne Everett. I'm trying to get fun training ideas for that period between 9 weeks and when they start formal training.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Radarsdad said:


> Keep in mind that when the dog goes to the line in field test or hunting. How do you expect him to see the mark or bird if he is WATCHING YOU. :doh::doh::doh:
> I did not just pull this out of my hat. A friend came out with his OTCH golden and teaches how to teach obedience classes. We had some issues with and had to work on getting his dog to look out in the field and not watch him. Great dog by the way and wound up doing well got his SH but it took a while to get him on the marks.
> 
> Also keep in mind that this the HUNT AND FIELD Section


Sorry if I babbled out of step here and apparently offended anyone. I forget to double check the header sometimes before responding. I saw something about obedience training and jumped all over that. 

I know nothing about hunt, but have always thought that different methods are used to train the dogs. And because there are different methods, the dog knows the difference between the field stuff and obedience stuff. If the guy's dog had a problem with the marks - could it have been not being taught them early on and seperate from the obedience work?


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Megora, you have been a great help. While I might deviate slightly, I printed out your post and will hang it on the wall! I put this under the field section as I wanted to make sure the hunt people would respond as well. I don't know how many frequent the agility/obedience section. I would like to excel in both categories, and feel it important to solicit different opinions. Please, feel free to post any of your thoughts to this topic. I do appreciate it!.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Have you checked out Sound Beginnings by Jackie Mertens? Very good for starting out a small puppy.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Swampcollie said:


> Have you checked out Sound Beginnings by Jackie Mertens? Very good for starting out a small puppy.


I liked this dvd... watched it at my breeders.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

I have a VHS tape that I purchased at a dog show for $1. However in the move, I don't think our VCR made it over with us, it may have gone in the garage sale. I'll have to see if I can find it in DVD, maybe on BowWowFlix.com, or find a VCR to watch it on.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Megora said:


> Sorry if I babbled out of step here and apparently offended anyone. I forget to double check the header sometimes before responding. I saw something about obedience training and jumped all over that.
> 
> I know nothing about hunt, but have always thought that different methods are used to train the dogs. And because there are different methods, the dog knows the difference between the field stuff and obedience stuff. If the guy's dog had a problem with the marks - could it have been not being taught them early on and seperate from the obedience work?


I do not do hard core competitive obedience, but I do dabble in the introductory levels--I would say that it is more a case of the dog not having been exposed to field concepts early enough. People like Bridget Carlson, Janice Gunn, and Connie Cleveland certainly demonstrate that it is possible to compete at a high level in both venues. But the key there is that they develop the foundations for both from the start. I can certainly see a case where a sensitive, or uncertain dog could revert to that behaviour under stress if introduced to field work late in its training--in fact did see it last year judging a SH where the dog was fixated on the handler on the walkup and did not see the marks go down!

I personally use "watch" but I use it as a cue when the dog is facing me, ie as in a remote sit ready to be cast. I do not like the heads-up, wrap-around heeling that is often seen in the obedience ring these days, but that is just personal preference!


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## chipstone (May 24, 2010)

I don't have too much time to add anything useful, but just wanted to mention that Reason and Cheers start Performance Puppy class tonight! I will be sure to post what Nancy touches upon in the class. I'm also going to try to snap a couple pictures.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

chipstone said:


> I don't have too much time to add anything useful, but just wanted to mention that Reason and Cheers start Performance Puppy class tonight! I will be sure to post what Nancy touches upon in the class. I'm also going to try to snap a couple pictures.


Oh PLEASE DO!!! Both, post Nancy's ideas and pictures! I hear Reason is a bit of a ralph mouth!: However, I also hear he is a love and cuddle muffin! 

I would love to see Cheers! She sounds very cute, just from her name. You probably already figured this out, but my avitar is Reasons brother Tag.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

> also started word recognition even if I was not training the behavior. For instance Gabby LOVES to carry things around in her mouth. So when she did I would say 'good hold'. When I wanted her to give me a toy so it did not go out to potty with her I say "give". Just using words you will want them to know.


Putting that one in my tool box!!!!



> I have a VHS tape that I purchased at a dog show for $1. However in the move, I don't think our VCR made it over with us, it may have gone in the garage sale. I'll have to see if I can find it in DVD, maybe on BowWowFlix.com, or find a VCR to watch it on


I feel your pain I had Jackie Mertens Sound Beginnings,Full set of Mike Lardy, Evan Graham, and Dave Rorem VHS tapes. *THAT DIDN'T MAKE THE MOVE EITHER*


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Gotta disagree with you here, "watch me" is a command given to the dog just the same as "sit" or "down" are commands. That's like saying don't teach your dog to lie down because he might do it when he's supposed to be retrieving.
However, what I do agree with is you do not want to teach your dog to heel while focusing on your face. That's not the same thing as teaching a "watch me" command that means at this moment in time, tune in to me and await a command.
For example....getting ready to give the dog a cast...."watch me".
On the other hand, watch Bridget Carlson work her OTCH/MH/QAA dogs some time.....it CAN be done to teach them to watch your face when heeling in obedience but not when in the field. Not by ME, but it can be done!






Radarsdad said:


> Keep in mind that when the dog goes to the line in field test or hunting. How do you expect him to see the mark or bird if he is WATCHING YOU. :doh::doh::doh:
> I did not just pull this out of my hat. A friend came out with his OTCH golden and teaches how to teach obedience classes. We had some issues with and had to work on getting his dog to look out in the field and not watch him. Great dog by the way and wound up doing well got his SH but it took a while to get him on the marks.
> 
> Also keep in mind that this the HUNT AND FIELD Section


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Start helping develop muscle memory for a nice, tight tuck sit and fold-back done. I work on sit/down/stand, all done with a lure over lots of short sessions. No verbal cues yet - just helping his little body go through the motions of the different positions.

Name recognition.

Tug with me. EVERYWHERE.

Lots of urban socialization. Let's meet the world in a safe, fun manner. Walk on different floor types, climb over railroad ties in the park, etc.

Emergency recall games.

Play retrieves of all different things - traditional "toys" as well as making a point to introduce things that don't fall into the "toy" category -- pens, piece of thin PVC, a spoon, old set of keys, etc.

Puppy strutting -- lured, head-up heeling a few steps at a time.

Polite greetings -- four paws on floor to meet new people.

Impulse control - not charging out of the crate when I open it, offering a sit for the food bowl, etc.

Wait -- don't come forward (I use this as an informal "stay" or around open doors.) Initially taught where tile meets carpet, etc. -- an obvious flooring change.

I do little bits of a TON of stuff, but my main focus is urban socialization, ability to choose to tug with me wherever we go, and emergency coming when called.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I didn't read Shelly's reply before I posted mine, but we're for sure on the same page! And, my "watch me" command is just like hers, facing the dog. 
I, too, don't care for the head-up, prancing, wrap-around heeling that's so popular in the ring right now. Some of the dogs actually impede the forward motion of the handler by getting their heads in front of the handler's thigh. But as Shelly said, it's just a matter of personal preference. A lot of people really like the way that looks.

".....I do not do hard core competitive obedience, but I do dabble in the introductory levels--I would say that it is more a case of the dog not having been exposed to field concepts early enough. People like Bridget Carlson, Janice Gunn, and Connie Cleveland certainly demonstrate that it is possible to compete at a high level in both venues. But the key there is that they develop the foundations for both from the start. I can certainly see a case where a sensitive, or uncertain dog could revert to that behaviour under stress if introduced to field work late in its training--in fact did see it last year judging a SH where the dog was fixated on the handler on the walkup and did not see the marks go down!

I personally use "watch" but I use it as a cue when the dog is facing me, ie as in a remote sit ready to be cast. I do not like the heads-up, wrap-around heeling that is often seen in the obedience ring these days, but that is just personal preference!...."


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Conner was not introduced to field work until he was 5 years old and we didn't have any problems with him looking at me instead looking out. Flip was taught both at the same time and he had not problems either. Different body language...in obedience heeling my arm is at my waist, quicker pace, and my head is tilted down slightly so I can look at my dog. For field my arm is down, I am walking slower, and I am looking out. I also used two different commands to help distinguish (heel/walk for Conner and strut/heel for Flip).

I could go out in the field and easily transfer from one style of heeling to the other. The dog is taking his cue from me as to what he should be doing.

As for obedience for a 9 week old, I wasn't teaching a whole lot yet with Flip at that age. We played a lot of tug and wrestled, grabbed handfuls of his skin or pulled around on his collar beause I wanted him to be comfortable with all of that physical manipulation. Let him have as many unique positive experiences as I could. The only actual skills I was starting to teach at that age were a restrained recall and a fold back drop.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

oh yes, Jodie brings up a good point....HANDLE HIS FEET ! ! ! ! ! Makes it so much easier to do their nails later.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

hotel4dogs said:


> oh yes, Jodie brings up a good point....HANDLE HIS FEET ! ! ! ! ! Makes it so much easier to do their nails later.


Yes! Lots of body handling... feet, nails, ears, brushing. Also some restraint positions.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> Gotta disagree with you here, "watch me" is a command given to the dog just the same as "sit" or "down" are commands. That's like saying don't teach your dog to lie down because he might do it when he's supposed to be retrieving.
> However, what I do agree with is you do not want to teach your dog to heel while focusing on your face. That's not the same thing as teaching a "watch me" command that means at this moment in time, tune in to me and await a command.
> For example....getting ready to give the dog a cast...."watch me".
> On the other hand, watch Bridget Carlson work her OTCH/MH/QAA dogs some time.....it CAN be done to teach them to watch your face when heeling in obedience but not when in the field. Not by ME, but it can be done!


Hopefully we can agree to disagree but the dog up to and through T work during training will learn to watch you anyway. He will be taught not to be "shopping" when he is sat for a cast. He will be taught to stay focused on you and what you want him to do as a team member and get the prize, the retrieve and your praise. 
My point is "Watch Me" can be picked up easily later and if your pup is solid he won't have to be looking at you to respond to your command. More importantly SIT,RECALL, and HEEL need to be firm for a good starting foundation. EX.
If his sit is good and he is about to get into something or cross the street, you avoid trouble and you break his thought process and he focuses on you. 
I don't like the come around sit either. In some tests I know of handlers have been dropped for "lack of control" My focus would be on 2 sided heeling instead.
I also don't work on a bunch of commands at one time. I prefer to get the few I am teaching solid before moving to the next.
I try to remember this.
K.I.S.S Keep It Simple Stupid


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Radarsdad said:


> Hopefully we can agree to disagree but the dog up to and through T work during training will learn to watch you anyway.


I think it probably depends on the dog. Some dogs, with a ton of obedience-related "watch me" under their belt can make that the default move anytime they realize they're working, and I can see how that might interfere with field work. The obedience dogs who also do well in field are, I'm guessing, a bit more "birdy" to begin with, so the instinct kicks in and overrides the years of diligent "watch me" training.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think this is one of the longest threads I have ever had! Thanks everyone for all of the great input and conversation.

I'm picking up what your saying Steph and I know that at this stage everything is FUN! 

Jodie, the only real obedience I am going for is for him to respond to his name, "here" and sit/down/stand while he is going for the bait.

The more fun training we can do now which aids in his development later is what my main purpose is. I'm thinking at 3 months or maybe 4 to start formalizing things. What are your thoughts everyone?


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

DNL2448 said:


> The more fun training we can do now which aids in his development later is what my main purpose is. I'm thinking at 3 months or maybe 4 to start formalizing things. What are your thoughts everyone?


How are things different when they're "formalized?" I can't really think of anything I do that suddenly makes training formal. I just increase the difficulty of what I'm working on as the pup is physically/mentally ready. 

What do you envision doing differently at 12-16 weeks to make it formal? For me, the only distinction I can think of that's "formal" is along the lines of when a behavior is finished and I'm trying to proof it for ring-ready standards. But, like many things in dog training, terminology means different things to different people. Looking forward to hearing what "formalized" means in your training programs.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Radarsdad said:


> My point is "Watch Me" can be picked up easily later


I was thinking about my earlier comment about watches and this comes close to hitting on why I was so eager to get an early start teaching watch to Jacks when he was a pup. 

My previous golden didn't really have a good watch without me sticking food in my mouth to lure him. My gut feeling is that it's because we didn't really start working on them for real until he was starting novice classes (when he was about a year old - he had a delay because of his elbows). He was one of those goldens who got pretty good scores and pretty blue ribbons, but he rarely had those flashes where he was looking up at me and gliding along. Not when I didn't have food with me. 

Meanwhile you have puppies and young dogs who naturally look up and smile at you when you are playing with them or walking. That's the natural behavior you want to tag or identify and encourage for the ring. Because it encourages them to keep doing it and not just for food rewards or because of corrections. And it looks and feels wonderful when you are in the ring. 

Anyway, I was just thinking about it.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

If you take a step at a time and are consistent you can "formalize" when the pups ready. By 3 or 4mos. you may have pup more "formalized" than you thought. Radar would sit on a whistle reliably at 100 yds. With no collar or lead in fact I taught it without it. Would recall at that distance also and love it. He learned it as a game. Later became formalized when necessary. Keep your standards high and teach concepts soundly and the building blocks come together.

[quoteI think it probably depends on the dog. Some dogs, with a ton of obedience-related "watch me" under their belt can make that the default move anytime they realize they're working, and I can see how that might interfere with field work. The obedience dogs who also do well in field are, I'm guessing, a bit more "birdy" to begin with, so the instinct kicks in and overrides the years of diligent "watch me" training.][/quote]

I'ts not just a default move I have seen dogs watching their handlers in test while the marks are thrown. Putting the dog at a severe disadvantage. Being "birdy" is great but they have to see where they fall. I doubt seriously that the person you are referring to got to her dog to that level by default. Obviously there was a lot of field training involved also. In fact I can assure there was a LOT of field training involved.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

My boy has plenty of obedience titles, which he got at a very young age. He is really solid on "watch me"; the building could fall down and he's not going to look away if he's supposed to be watching me.
But get him around birds....holy schmoly, good luck getting him to remember I'm THERE, let alone watch me. 
Radarsdad, I'm perfectly happy to agree to disagree. My only experience with both competitive obedience and field (and only a JH for now besides) is with ONE dog, so what goes for this ONE dog may not have anything to do with anyone else's dog.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

> [ so what goes for this ONE dog may not have anything to do with anyone else's dog./QUOTE]
> 
> That is an absolute truth.
> 
> ...


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Yes, we're training for SH now. 
I often say that I never met my *real dog* until I saw him in the field. You'd swear I changed dogs. I see all kinds of behaviors that I never knew were in him, and not all of them are good :doh:!



Radarsdad said:


> > [ so what goes for this ONE dog may not have anything to do with anyone else's dog./QUOTE]
> >
> > That is an absolute truth.
> >
> > ...


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

And Seniors is easy compared to Masters!! Because in Seniors they still testing the dogs ability. Masters they are trying to test *YOU AND YOUR DOGS* ability and how well you work as team. You have many opportunities to fail your dog. 
Just a little encouragement


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Steph, when I say formalized I am meaning past the "show me" and forming stage and into the more precise neuances of obedience/field. Being picky on positions, and insisting on quick response to commands as an example. 

Since you asked the question, it got me thinking that what I am calling formalized needs to come later than even 4 months.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I thought about this thread the last week or so...

My instructor has a new puppy. Watching her videos on facebook has me going through puppy angst... 

I hope she keeps this up, but she's giving really great tips on how to teach the groundwork stuff. 

AdeleYunck's Channel - YouTube


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

You train with Adele? How did I not know this. 

This is the last thing I needed to look at--cute flat coat puppy. I am in love with the breed...


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

You're training for field?





 




 




 
Most of all, have fun!

EvanG


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

GoldenSail said:


> You train with Adele? How did I not know this.
> 
> This is the last thing I needed to look at--cute flat coat puppy. I am in love with the breed...


I agree. Please do not put Flat Coat puppy pictures on the board. I am in enough trouble already with DW.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

GoldenSail said:


> This is the last thing I needed to look at--cute flat coat puppy. I am in love with the breed...





Radarsdad said:


> I agree. Please do not put Flat Coat puppy pictures on the board. I am in enough trouble already with DW.


*snurks* At least you don't have to see that puppy every week....  And the worst is because Adele does such a great job with this puppy, I'm only seeing this angelic little black puppy who is content to sit in her owner's lap for a half hour, goes to sleep immediately when placed in her crate, and obviously from the videos is already picking up all the basics. : 

Actually, from what I've seen over the past year or so.... Adele's flatcoats defy all those cautions about the breed being hyperactive or busy.... they look so EASY compared to goldens (I know they're not, and it's probably all her).


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## wakemup (Feb 6, 2011)

Yep, definitely reinforcing attention!


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Megora said:


> *snurks* At least you don't have to see that puppy every week....  And the worst is because Adele does such a great job with this puppy, I'm only seeing this angelic little black puppy who is content to sit in her owner's lap for a half hour, goes to sleep immediately when placed in her crate, and obviously from the videos is already picking up all the basics. :
> 
> Actually, from what I've seen over the past year or so.... Adele's flatcoats defy all those cautions about the breed being hyperactive or busy.... they look so EASY compared to goldens (I know they're not, and it's probably all her).


Well, that pup is out of a Flat who ran the Cdn Master National, of whom my friend who was one of the judges for the event said was the best working Flat he has ever seen. So pair that with Adele's skills and that pup is going to be a prodigy...


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