# Canidae ALS formula change



## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I just bought a bag Monday and mine is till the same.


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## CindyLNC (Jan 2, 2008)

They said it was integrating into the market. The old stuff will sell off and the new is replacing it. I was concerned when I saw it as the food looks nothing like the previous kibble. Probably with in the next bag or two you will see the new stuff.


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## Angel_Kody (Feb 27, 2007)

I feed this too. Thanks for the heads up. Maybe I'll buy a smaller bag next time to make sure it agrees with Jester. I haven't bought a new bag in a while so I will look for the change next time. I don't see anything about a new formula on their website yet.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Hmmm...thanks for the heads up on the "real" Lamb meat instead of Lamb "meal." It is surprising that they would do this when they have a blurb on their site as to why "meal" is better than "real" meat.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I would think "real" lamb would be better than lamb meal but you're right Kimm. They're the ones that convinced me "meal" was OK.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Debles said:


> I would think "real" lamb would be better than lamb meal but you're right Kimm. They're the ones that convinced me "meal" was OK.


 
There is a thread on here about "meal" and "real" meat. According to the FDA, meal is better. There is an explanation as to why. Actually, it's the same one Canidae gives, which is why this change puzzles me.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Maybe they couldn't get "meal"? 
I'm gonna go read the explanation.


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## Dalton's mom (Apr 5, 2008)

CindyLNC said:


> I have fed both my golden's (Maize 9 yrs old, Lucy 10 months) canidae since both were pups. I just opened a new bag and the dry food looks different. It is lighter in color and is more disc shaped verses the traditional pea shape. I called the store and they had no clue but gave me the name of the Canidae vender for CO. I called him and he said that Canidae was changing the formula on a few foods now with more to come later. They are phasing out rice as it is harder to get right now. They added other carbs like peas.
> 
> My golden's don't seem to thrilled with the new change... they also added real lamb and not a lamb meal. They seem to not like the smell or something. SIGH. They have both had horrible GAS....wow!
> 
> ...


Good luck. Dalton used to eat Solid Gold when I first adopted him. He had gas so bad, you were looking for the pile of pooh. Seriously, it cleared the room & heaven forbid....you were in the car. I have one more unopened 40lb bag of Canidae, so I guess will see a change next time I have to buy it. Thanx for the heads up.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

I feed the Chicken and Rice Canidae but thanks for the heads up.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Apparently the change is only in the Lamb formula, at least according to the specialty store where I buy my Canidae. I really don't care for lamb as a food anyway. It started out as a good "test" food for dog with allergies since it was relatively unusual and somehow was transformed from there.


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## TiffanyK (Mar 3, 2008)

Thanks for the heads up. I just got a new bag of Canidae ALS last week and it's the same as usual, but I'll watch for new stuff.


Tiffany


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Tahnee GR said:


> Apparently the change is only in the Lamb formula, at least according to the specialty store where I buy my Canidae. I really don't care for lamb as a food anyway. It started out as a good "test" food for dog with allergies since it was relatively unusual and somehow was transformed from there.


I may have to make another switch at some point. Shadow has problems with so many proteins. His coat got really bad on the Fish formulas. I'll finish up this bag and then do some homework.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

What's wrong with lamb? Besides the killing of lambs of course.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

> What's wrong with lamb?


Lamb was originally an alternative for dogs with sensitivities to the standard beef that used to be the norm for dog foods. But then dogs became sensitive to lamb, so it wasn't "working" anymore.

That's why there are so many unique foods now, like bison, elk, fish, kangaroo, etc. Due to feeding them ALL the time, many dogs (and actually whole lines) have developed allergies to the usual main proteins like beef, chicken, turkey and lamb, so these *unique main protein* foods are made for dogs with allergies. They also don't have corn, wheat or soy....and some have no grains at all. (Another source of allergies in dogs.)


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Ardeagold said:


> That's why there are so many unique foods now, like bison, elk, fish, kangaroo, etc. Due to feeding them ALL the time, many dogs (and actually whole lines) have developed allergies to the usual main proteins like beef, chicken, turkey and lamb, so these *unique main protein* foods are made for dogs with allergies. They also don't have corn, wheat or soy....and some have no grains at all. (Another source of allergies in dogs.)


I'll be looking into a few of these.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I really wish Canidae would stay the same. It's stressful enough making a choice and staying with it in the big petfood market. Is the six star, five star rating system on dogfoodanalysis.com meaningfull? I cannot quite figure out the credentials of the people sponsoring it. Is it a Boxer forum like our Golden Retriever Forum?


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Ljilly28 said:


> ................... Is the six star, five star rating system on dogfoodanalysis.com meaningfull? I cannot quite figure out the credentials of the people sponsoring it. Is it a Boxer forum like our Golden Retriever Forum?


I don't think the reviewers have any credentials. They don't even have a concept of what Corn Gluten is .

Corn Glutin is the concentrated corn protein after the starch is removed. To say all the nutritious bits are removed tells me they read the AAFCO description, thought it sounded horrible and made an emotion-based assumption.

How can you trust a source that doesn't understand what an ingredient is or what its used for?

_"The second ingredient is Corn gluten meal, another low quality ingredient. Corn is a problematic grain that is difficult for dogs to digest and thought to be the cause of a great many allergy and yeast infection problems. We prefer not to see this used in dog food. The AAFCO definition of corn gluten meal is "the dried residue from corn after the removal of the larger part of the starch and germ, and the separation of the bran by the process employed in the wet milling manufacture of corn starch or syrup, or by enzymatic treatment of the endosperm". I*n plain English, that which remains after all the nutritious bits have been removed.*"_


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Here is the link to the Canidae page explaining the change to the lamb and rice formula. They do address the shortage of rice. They also state that lamb meal remains the number one ingredient and they have added lamb meat to the mix:

http://www.canidae.com/dogs/lamb-and-rice/faq.html


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

As for the corn issue, Shadow has a problem with it so credentials or no credentials, he can't eat it. Ugh! Something is up with him anyway. He's been really itchy lately. It can be environmental and he's not showing too many problems other than the itch because we keep him away from the ingredients he showed sensitive to. Tucker is just so NOT allergic to anything. What a difference.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Kimm said:


> As for the corn issue, Shadow has a problem with it so credentials or no credentials, he can't eat it. Ugh! Something is up with him anyway. He's been really itchy lately. It can be environmental and he's not showing too many problems other than the itch because we keep him away from the ingredients he showed sensitive to. Tucker is just so NOT allergic to anything. What a difference.


My point isn't whether corn is good or bad....it has to do with the fact that if these dogfoodanalysis people don't know what corn glutin is and what its used for then they really don't have any business offering reviews.


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## Cam's Mom (Apr 13, 2007)

Kimm...they can aquire new allergies! We just added both beef and chicken to Baileys allergy list. Wasn't sure which it was. Eliminated both, then tested each, and each caused the same problems. Still Ok with Turkey thank goodness.

For those feeding lamb and rice. Flint River Ranch lamb and rice is/was good. I have no idea if they've changed anything though. It's a couple of years since I bought any.

Gas from food containing peas is not suprising. It takes bacteria to digest them, and the bacteria cause the gas. Gas can be very painful for the dogs. You can help the problem with additives like gas-X. Legumes(peas, beans, lentils) except a few fresh ones are not a natural food for dogs.

The dog food companies can't really have the dogs as their number one concern if they don't advertis they're changing the food content. Sounds like they're playing around with meat/meal/legumes to keep the protein and carbohydrate level as it was with lamb meal and rice, but also keep costs down.

Meal is better than meat in kibble because it is dried. More protein less water. So 1 lb of meal is much more meat protein than 1 lb of raw meat. Fresh raw meat would be the best.

Lamb and goat are actually good meats for goldens...those animals are prey size, so much more " species appropriate" than beef, bison, venison etc. If I give my dogs a choice of raw meat, goat is their preference every time.

Corn gluten is not a food, it's a derivative. It is the protein part of the kernel. But, it is the part, like wheat gluten, that causes the allergies. Cereal glutens commonly cause colitis...inflamation of the bowel, in humans and dogs. I personally don't like foods that are made from food fractions. Whole fresh corn is OK, but corn derivatives I don't like...limits food choices A LOT

I guess we should start checking all the kibble ingredint lists. If one company changes they tend to follow like sheep.

I'm a food snob...sorry!

Margaret


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Actually they only added real lamb in addition to the lamb meal, so there is both in the lamb & rice variety. My dogs haven't complained about the change though.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I know of a few other proteins we can try, but the following is out.

Chicken
Turkey
Duck
Rabbit, Ugh...

As for other issues

Corn
milk products
and I'm forgetting something


Don't know if the Lamb is catching up with him or not. 
Fish formulas really do a number on his coat.

I guess I would ask why they're adding lamb meat to the lamb meal. Seems like a way to cut some corners?


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Lucky's mom said:


> My point isn't whether corn is good or bad....it has to do with the fact that if these dogfoodanalysis people don't know what corn glutin is and what its used for then they really don't have any business offering reviews.


 
Point taken... I'll have to go read their definition and compare it to the one a scientist gives.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Kimm said:


> Point taken... I'll have to go read their definition and compare it to the one a scientist gives.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/08/010814063512.htm

Here's an interesting scientific article concerning corn glutin...which has _* all the nutritious bits removed*_ because the starch is removed and all that's left is concentrated protein:doh: 


Not that its the best form of protien for a dog.....but geeze its not wood shavings....


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Lucky's mom said:


> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/08/010814063512.htm
> 
> Here's an interesting scientific article concerning corn glutin...which has _*all the nutritious bits removed*_ because the starch is removed and all that's left is concentrated protein:doh:
> 
> ...


Are they using this process now for the corn gluten meal used in dog food? What I'm reading is the process is being used and tested in Spaghetti. 

Shadow can't eat it anyway, so I don't worry too much about it. Interesting article though. We get a few of the popular science magazines in our library and they're always interesting to read. I've never read Science Daily. I'll have to bookmark it.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Kimm said:


> Are they using this process now for the corn gluten meal used in dog food? What I'm reading is the process is being used and tested in Spaghetti.
> 
> Shadow can't eat it anyway, so I don't worry too much about it. Interesting article though. We get a few of the popular science magazines in our library and they're always interesting to read. I've never read Science Daily. I'll have to bookmark it.


Corn Glutin meal is Corn Glutin meal....The new process helps it taste better to human tongue.

The point is....these "experts" at dogfoodanalysis had no idea that corn glutin is almost pure protien and that it is used as a protien source...something any true expert would know. All they read was "by-product"....and that was enough to make an "expert accessment" that it had no nutritional value.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Lucky's mom said:


> Corn Glutin meal is Corn Glutin meal....The new process helps it taste better to human tongue.
> 
> The point is....these "experts" at dogfoodanalysis had no idea that corn glutin is almost pure protien and that it is used as a protien source...something any true expert would know. All they read was "by-product"....and that was enough to make an "expert accessment" that it had no nutritional value.


Got it...pain was getting to me yesterday. I understand the point you are trying to make. Wasn't it gluten that caused issues during all the food recalls? You don't have to answer. I can look that up. My other dogs lived their whole lives on foods that probably contained corn gluten.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Kimm said:


> Got it...pain was getting to me yesterday. I understand the point you are trying to make. Wasn't it gluten that caused issues during all the food recalls? You don't have to answer. I can look that up. My other dogs lived their whole lives on foods that probably contained corn gluten.



Pain? What's wrong?

Rice glutin was the problem during the recall

I don't like Lucky eating Corn Glutin...would rather have him eating meat....but you know...blah, blah...not the point.

HOpe you're feeling better.


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## Judi (Feb 26, 2007)

CindyLNC said:


> I have fed both my golden's (Maize 9 yrs old, Lucy 10 months) canidae since both were pups. I just opened a new bag and the dry food looks different. It is lighter in color and is more disc shaped verses the traditional pea shape. I called the store and they had no clue but gave me the name of the Canidae vender for CO. I called him and he said that Canidae was changing the formula on a few foods now with more to come later. They are phasing out rice as it is harder to get right now. They added other carbs like peas.
> 
> My golden's don't seem to thrilled with the new change... they also added real lamb and not a lamb meal. They seem to not like the smell or something. SIGH. They have both had horrible GAS....wow!
> 
> ...


What does the ALS stand for? I thought of Amial Lateral Schlorosis.


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## Dalton's mom (Apr 5, 2008)

Judi said:


> What does the ALS stand for? I thought of Amial Lateral Schlorosis.


ALS in the case of Canidae ALS = All Life Stages


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

My boys have always eaten lamb kibble to avoid allergies since puppyhood but they have had the chicken kibble on occaision. 

I never thought Nutro's Natural Choice's ingredients were that bad but their "rating" wasn't as good as Canidae, Innova, Nature's Variety so I looked up all the ingredients in all and went with Nature's Variety but we're still doing the lamb and sometimes add alittle salmon kibble in. So far so good!


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## Angel_Kody (Feb 27, 2007)

Kimm said:


> As for the corn issue, Shadow has a problem with it so credentials or no credentials, he can't eat it. Ugh! Something is up with him anyway. He's been really itchy lately. It can be environmental and he's not showing too many problems other than the itch because we keep him away from the ingredients he showed sensitive to. Tucker is just so NOT allergic to anything. What a difference.


 
Jester has been really itchy too...for a while (scratching and head shaking) and it seems to be getting worse over time (I had to cut matts off his belly yesterday from him scratching ). I am starting to wonder if it's something in his food he is allergic to. I'm still using the old formula of Canidae ALS but this new formula change may present a good time to switch him and do some experimenting to see if the itching is food related...hmmmm...


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## T&T (Feb 28, 2008)

I like to refer to this ingredient list for quick reference.
ie If you type CORN in search, you will find everything CORN !
Or just check ingredients by alphabetical order. 
http://www.healthwisepetfood.com/tools/ingredient.asp?alpha=A&id=21


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