# Masterthread for Felix Stack Progress - Advice?



## Megora

First - hope you feel OK. And don't have the plague! 

I think he's lovely in all of the pictures. Don't worry about the coat. Topline looks fine.

I think my issue with the bottom 3 pics is whatever is going on with his lead/collar. I don't know where you are or how you are holding the leash, but in the ring he should not be strung up like that.... he also was posting a little in each of those 3 pics.

It's possible by the time we all get back to dog shows, we will ALL be rusty LOL - but generally speaking if I'm setting up, I let the lead drop out of sight between me and my dog, I've fixed the collar so the fur around the neck and ears is smoothed down and then I hold the collar by a finger or two with my left hand (gently) and I am baiting with my right hand.

The below pic is one that I just snapped over my shoulder so it's a little fuzzy (hopefully the forum doesn't decide to block it under suspicion of nudity like it did the last time I posted a fuzzy picture LOLOLOL) -

But when I'm setting my dog's head, I'm conscious of showing off that he has a neck + I also want to show off the beautiful head piece my dog has.

If you gently hold the collar at the back of the head behind the ears and bait in front, you can get that gentle curve and look.

As you can see from my pup - it's not an unnatural headset since he's doing it on his own.











This is a picture of my Bertie showing the same headset that I aim for.


----------



## Tagrenine

Thank you so much!! I'll try to get some pictures today holding the collar like that. In those pictures I'm in a weird position trying to bait his head down because he likes to ewe neck if I'm not exaggeratedly baiting lol. Some people have told me to try tossing the bait, which works great, but I'm not so sure that's okay to do in the ring lol. 

When Felix freestacks and does his own thing, he looks so much better than what I do. Any way to help with his counterbending from me? He tends to try to set up diagonally and/or bend his ribs away when I start moving his feet, which then becomes another ordeal in and of itself.


----------



## ArkansasGold

Professional handlers toss bait in the ring all time soo.... and sometimes they don't even pick it up. Not condoning that last part, but if you need to toss it to properly show your dog, then do it. 

One thing I observed about myself and about the pros in the ring at the Louisville shows (before they got shut down) is that I feel like I am always rushing, rushing, rushing to get my dog set up, to get my leash/collar situated, etc. in order to not delay the judge. Yet, all of the professional handlers take their time (within reason) doing what they need to do to get their dogs in correct position and to get them ready to gait. They redo their down-and-backs if the dog isn't behaving. One even redid the down-and-back and switched the dog to her right side because the dog was side-widing. 

I also spend lots and lots of time worrying about my dog behaving and being perfect (maybe because in Rally and Obedience you get quantifiably penalized for it?), and you know what? Even some of the specials shown by pros are naughty in the ring and they still win as long as the judge can see what she needs to see. 

Something that might help with the posting is luring him out over himself. Put your hand on his withers and lure him to lean forward a bit and you will feel his weight shift without him moving his feet. Just be careful not lure him too far. Getting him out over himself during the judge's exam is important for them to check the front assembly. I don't feel as though I got Eevee out over herself enough in Louisville and I think this affected the judge's perception of her front assembly (she also had dead tail and we got placed just outside the ribbons). This is something to practice at home until you get used to seeing what he looks like in correct position and then in the ring you won't have to put your hand on his withers anymore. 

Some people only freestack in the lineup, so if he is really good at that, then maybe that's what you need to do and adjust feet only if needed. Do what you need to do to get your dog in correct position. You are responsible for not crowding the dog in front of you, so take the space you need and the person behind you is responsible for not crowding you.


----------



## ArkansasGold

Also, Eevee is hardcore posting in my sig pic... I cannot get the photographers to not throw things... EVERY stinkin' time she will post as she prepares to launch herself after whatever was thrown. Drives me crazy.


----------



## Megora

ArkansasGold said:


> Professional handlers toss bait in the ring all time soo.... and sometimes they don't even pick it up. Not condoning that last part, but if you need to toss it to properly show your dog, then do it.


I toss the bait at home - but not at shows. If my dog thinks I might toss the bait - it works just fine.

Let's be honest though - with Glee especially, he's always watching the dogs being baited in front of us.... AND I USE THAT IF I CAN.


----------



## Tagrenine

Thank you all!! I've taken all your tips and I got some videos for you all to critique his gait and let me know what I can do to improve  I got some stacked photos today, that, while not perfect, I'm happier about. 










This photo was just his free stack and I was so happy that I only bothered to mess with one leg. He's definitely still posting and overstretched in the back a bit, but he was much happier training today and I didn't want to push him  


















These were the end results of stacking today. I'm pretty sure his front legs could definitely stand to move back, but overall I was pretty happy


----------



## Prism Goldens

I see him throwing his front feet out. When I can get the pic bigger will watch again.


----------



## Megora

Stacking pics are all beautiful - great job. Much better. <B

In a crunch, get the judge's side right. 

Gaiting -

1. You want the lead in one hand. You have a thicker lead, so not as easy to do that. But with a show lead you want to gather the lead in the left hand.

2. Related to how you are holding the lead, he's gaiting a little close to you. It's difficult to describe, but when gaiting the effort is to push out a little. This will discourage the looking up at you as well + prevent confusion should you decide to do obedience. This is a good example of what I'm trying to describe.


----------



## Megora

Prism Goldens said:


> I see him throwing his front feet out. When I can get the pic bigger will watch again.


He was prancing while looking up in the side gait video.


----------



## ArkansasGold

What Kate said about holding the lead. That will help a lot when gaiting. Stacked photos definitely show improvement! He's a really nice looking pup.  

If you are friends with any professional handlers on Facebook, do some creeping and see how they hold the lead. Actually, you probably don't even have to be friends with them to see videos and photos of them showing dogs. They get tagged in a LOT of pictures. Keep practicing and I think you'll have no problem finishing him.


----------



## Tagrenine

Thank you all!! His lead work has improved so much and he's not looking at me nearly as much as he used to. I'll try to start pushing him out and away from me  I've heard some stuff about training him to gait with a toy in his mouth? I feel like when he's carrying something, his movement quality seems to improve. Have any of you tried this?


----------



## K9-Design

Oooooookay so this is going to be difficult advice but --- quit training him so much.
You CAN overdo it -- and the fact he is leaning away from you tells me you are. They will start to do all sorts of weird stuff while you're hand stacking them, that can haunt you forever, and it's all for doing it too much, the wrong way.
I know you're trying to learn, and it's not easy, but you'd be better off working on free-baiting and gaiting for a while, until you can get some one-on-one help from an experienced golden handler on how best to stack him. JMHO
He's a baby, he's got plenty of time to learn. 
Watch the groups at Westminster over and over and over and over again. Or the live feed from the golden national that is online. Study how the pros do it.


----------



## Megora

Anney - you've gotta admit he looked 100% better in the outdoor pics.


----------



## Tagrenine

Thank you two!! 

His breeder told us the same thing 😅He told us just to practice maybe 5 minutes a day and that's it, so that's what I've been trying to do, but in my hyper focus sometimes I stretch it out longer and I can tell when he gets frustrated. I'll try to work on making sure I don't spend a long time practicing.

His gaiting is a bit tougher for me, but we're working on it. He's gotten a lot better but my puppy definitely still gets excited and wants to play.


----------



## Tagrenine

Here is another gait video, in slow mo. I'm sorry the quality is bad, uploading them always take away the HD  And also its bright outside, so I'm squinting 😅

Edit: I've been advised I'm still bouncing too much while trying to get him. Other than that, is this better than the before videos?


----------



## ArkansasGold

That looked a lot better! He was bouncy at first, but recovered and leveled out. Your leash position was much better!


----------



## Tagrenine

ArkansasGold said:


> That looked a lot better! He was bouncy at first, but recovered and leveled out. Your leash position was much better!


Thank you so much!! I hate to bother you, but could you tell me what you like vs dislike about his gait? What fits the breed standard well vs what doesn't?


----------



## ArkansasGold

You're welcome! I really don't feel qualified to give you a review of his movement. The only thing I really noticed is that he is a little butt-high right now, but Eevee was too at that age. He will probably grow out of that in a few months. Ask Anney what she thinks. A full speed video might help some too because it's hard to tell how fast you're going.


----------



## Megora

OK - I did not agree with Anney's comments regarding stacking him.... stacking practice can't do any harm. Unless you are doing it wrong? But outside pics were much better.

But with the gaiting - I would take it easy and hopefully get with somebody who can work one on one with you a couple times before your first show (like this summer hopefully!). And right now take him out places to run and build up muscle.

Right now he's pretty gawky and could be the speed of the video but appeared to be lumbering with the gaiting. The topline is rippling and rolling all over. And he's a little butt high.

You can fix the lumbering type gait a little by setting the collar before you move. I was told by a professional handler to set the collar at the back of the head and keep it tight. You can loosen the lead once he gets a clear idea what he's doing and is driving forward, but in your video, he's kinda taking a walk on you.

The rolling topline is not unusual because of his age. Jovi really had it BAD until he was about 15-16 months old.

I'm so envious of your sun! We've had rain the last few days. Rain and mud. >.<


----------



## Tagrenine

Thank you so much!! Both of you! I have no idea really want I'm looking for and it's tough 😅 

His skin is all over the place. I have to keep reminding myself he isn't fat because whenever he jogs or runs it just bounces or rolls everywhere and I'm hoping as he ages it gets a bit tighter. 

I definitely see now what you mean by the lumbering! It wasn't a super fast gait, but it wasn't slow either. Even when he's running his skin just flops everywhere lol. I'll start letting him out more and try to find a good time to do it. All the local dog friendly water areas are closed and it's getting so hot, neither of us are a fan of exercise during the day. I'll need to start him early in the morning.

For now I'll work on letting him build some muscle and maybe growing up a bit more, hopefully the next time I get some comparison photos he won't be so butt high. And I'll learn how to get him to move properly. 

It hasn't rained down here in at least a week!! The sun is lovely but all the local fauna are annoyed. Our water birds and lake turtles are having a hard time finding deep water lol.


----------



## Megora

He just needs to grow up and fill out a little. That will come.  

The heat might have been making his lazy too - with the lumbering.

I like going out and sunning myself while the dogs are out running around. It's just been gray and drippy out. We even got an early thunderstorm the other night!


----------



## ArkansasGold

I'm laughing to myself because I actually did agree with Anney on not stacking him so much - and I think that's the first time I've seen her say that someone is training too much. LOL I probably take it a little far, but I really don't make Eevee work on hand stacking that often. We work on free stacks randomly for treats and meals, but I don't train nearly as hard for conformation as I do for other sports, and I don't think most people really need to...


----------



## Tagrenine

It is so INSANELY hot. Easily 90+ degrees down here already and with all the water venues closed, we're having to get creative lol. Felix is a little stir crazy lol. As I type he's running zoomies around the apartment. I notice a lot of people outside though. I still can't go out and interact, but a bunch of residents got new pets and people are having picnics/sunbathing out by the lake. I have this little area of just open field I can walk him to, but now there is a Gopher Tortoise burrow there and I have to keep him away from the back half completely lol. He likes to people watch on the patio, our neighbor's youngest daughter insists that his name is Tucker and always yells up "Hi Tucker!" 

As for training, I'm kind of trying to play it by ear 😅 we practice free stacking just randomly, and I've been doing a little bit here and there to do subtle adjustments of his free stack (like I adjust my body and he adjusts his foot sort of thing), but I'm trying to limit the hand stacking. Mostly so he stops counter bending and because both of us have limited patience and I don't want either of us to get frustrated. I feel that, once he's older, we can probably fine tune it a little more, but for now we're just kind of existing and practicing here and there when we can. Which is more than I had before; having so much time means I have to restrain from training so much lol. 

On the plus side, his loose leash walking has gotten a hundred times better. He can loose leash walk around the lake as long as no one tries to greet him lol, but I'm sure that comes with age and consistency. Despite it all, he's really been a good boy through the studying, the quarantine, and everything. He's a huge cuddle monster and if I'm studying on the couch, he's lying right next to me sleeping away.


----------



## Megora

ArkansasGold said:


> I'm laughing to myself because I actually did agree with Anney on not stacking him so much - and I think that's the first time I've seen her say that someone is training too much. LOL I probably take it a little far, but I really don't make Eevee work on hand stacking that often. We work on free stacks randomly for treats and meals, but I don't train nearly as hard for conformation as I do for other sports, and I don't think most people really need to...


This is where I admit the reason why I practice stacks maybe a couple times every day (give or take) is because I strongly remember being in the running to win an Open class (for a Major). The judge whittled us down to 3 of us and asked us to free stack our dogs. 

The 2 pro handlers in the ring with me - INSTANTLY stacked their dogs in a full perfect stretched stack - and Bertie kept moving his feet. >.< We ended up 3rd in the class when the judge HAD BEEN LOOKING AT BERTIE. 

Many or MOST of the breed judges as well do not want to see a hand stack. They want to see the dogs stack themselves - which is a combination of the dogs being correct, but also muscle memory (that comes from practice).


----------



## Tagrenine

Felix will be 10 months old in a couple weeks, and that's when I plan on reevaluating him at the stack. I think he's still a little butt high 😅 but I got a picture of him yesterday showing off his mane that is starting to come in


----------



## Emmdenn

He’s so handsome! I remember being so excited for Den’s adult coat to come in too


----------



## Ffcmm

can't wait to see his updated stack! time sure flies oh my 2 more months and he will be a year!!! Do you think he is almost at his full height yet? will be so exciting to get back in the ring for the both of you i'm sure


----------



## Tagrenine

Thank you guys!! I think he is very close to being as tall as he is going to get  I'm very excited to show!! At this rate its going to be awhile from now, but we're waiting! Giving him more time to fill out and that coat to come in. And for me to learn to groom properly!


----------



## tikiandme

He's looking quite nice. Growing into a handsome young guy.


----------



## Rion05

Very handsome - thank you for sharing your journey! Fun to watch him grow up! 

I was going to ask if you also do obedience work with him because of the comments above about him prancing when looking up? I am training obedience with mine and trying to figure out how to get him to better "focus forward" when on the show lead. It sounds like your boy is getting better, though?


----------



## Tagrenine

Rion05 said:


> Very handsome - thank you for sharing your journey! Fun to watch him grow up!
> 
> I was going to ask if you also do obedience work with him because of the comments above about him prancing when looking up? I am training obedience with mine and trying to figure out how to get him to better "focus forward" when on the show lead. It sounds like your boy is getting better, though?


Thank you! One of the best things we did to get him to look forward on his show lead was this double chair technique. I read about it online and then our handling class instructor told me about it. 

So we set up two chairs probably 20 feet apart. We placed pieces of training treats on each chair. He was excited to look forward and his reward when reaching the chair was always one of the treats on the chair. A combination of that and no longer giving him rewards from my hands while on his show lead made a huge difference!


----------



## Rion05

That makes a TON of sense! Funny, I was actually trying something like that already because of something I tried with agility and teaching him weave polls - we've been using a tupperware container of treats on a chair for gaiting, too! It's all a big, fun puzzle to teach them all of this, isn't it? Haha! 

Now we just need some dog shows!


----------



## Tagrenine

Rion05 said:


> That makes a TON of sense! Funny, I was actually trying something like that already because of something I tried with agility and teaching him weave polls - we've been using a tupperware container of treats on a chair for gaiting, too! It's all a big, fun puzzle to teach them all of this, isn't it? Haha!
> 
> Now we just need some dog shows!


Definitely! I can't wait for the shows to come back, if only so I can go to watch and learn. I'm excited to post his 10 month stack evaluation here though in a couple weeks 😊


----------



## Tagrenine

Hey guys! We did some grooming today (I'm still terrible at ears, one of them looks like a buzz cutter got to it), and practiced some stacking. I think he's a little stretched out in the back in a couple, but otherwise I think he's gotten better! His fur is all over the place right now and I wish I'd paid better attention to his lead positioning, but let me know what you think


----------



## ArkansasGold

His head needs to come up a bit and he needs to be looking straight out or maybe slightly up instead of down at food. I think that will make his overall outline look better. It looks like he’s leaning forward a tad instead of standing square, which in turn makes him look overstretched in the rear. His foot placement looks fine to me, his weight is just shifted too far forward.

He’s growing up! And you are doing a fabulous job with him! How old is he now?


----------



## Tagrenine

Thank you!! He’s 10 months old now 
I’ll try to get some more photos tomorrow, it’s hot today and we’re trying to only do short periods. We used to have a problem with him not putting enough weight on his front legs and now we have the opposite problem lol. Any tips on how to get him to put more weight on his back legs? I should be able to readjust his head pretty easily


----------



## ArkansasGold

Honestly, just get his head up instead of out and I think that will fix his weight being too far forward. It doesn’t need much really, just a bit!


----------



## ArkansasGold

Also, try free stacking him first and then just adjust his feet as needed and he’ll balance himself out better.


----------



## Tagrenine

Thank you so much!! I'll try to get an expression photo tomorrow and a good video showing his gaiting progress  I appreciate your advice!


----------



## K9-Design

When I stack a dog, I adjust front feet, then back feet, then go move the front feet back again about 1/2-1". Try this. Also, as mentioned above, if you're standing in front of him baiting, have the bait about at your waist. Lookin good!


----------



## Megora

The Booths (BlueRose Kennels) have a new YT channel and one of those videos posted recently, Amy demonstrating fixing that collar before you do anything else. And it's something I have been taught to do before moving my dogs - but I do definitely FORGET when stacking. And that's when you want the judge to see your dog's pretty head and neckline!

The linked video shows how to fix the "collar path" so you don't have that bunchy fur. Jump to the 11 minute mark.

On the subject of stacking your dogs and training stacks - both Amy and Phil did nice videos showing how to train stacks. Phil's is kinda how I do it the most, I think.


----------



## Tagrenine

Thank you so much!!

We spent some more time practicing today and I have updated pics  He was a good boy, but I feel like I definitely need to pay more attention to his hind legs. If I don't set him up right, he looks so straight in the back. But I definitely worked some more with his lead. He has this really soft fur by his years that is constantly getting caught in his lead and it's making it a little difficult to hold the lead above his neck. I'm wondering if I can use the stripping knives to pull some of that out? 

But overall, I think his neck and head carriage looks better  If I could combine the two photos, I think we'd have a perfect stack 😂 I'm trying not to push fro the whole image, just bits at a time, but I'd really like to start showing UKC with him this year. It's amazing how much proper stacking makes a difference 😅I'm glad I have time to practice, but I feel like I'm doing him a disservice by being a first time handler, it's a lot of work! You guys are amazing.


----------



## Megora

I use stripping knives and a stripper to clean all that out. And thinning shears.

Start with the stripper to get the bulk out.

Thinning shears under the ear flap and going around the "ear hole".

Stripping knife to finish.

Pictures much better. You don't want to block his face + don't feel like you have to be in front unless the judge tells you get out there (have only had that happen once)....


----------



## Megora

@Tagrenine - see the attached video. If you jump ahead to about the 9 minute mark, Amy's working with a young golden and talks about getting the headset while free stacking. <= I love this video. It's definitely something I want to practice if I can get the dogs out somewhere tomorrow morning maybe (we have disgustingly hot temps here in the 90's so dogs are mostly staying inside during the day)....


----------



## ArkansasGold

@Tagrenine I know this has been asked before, but do you have any handling classes near you?
I went to class on Sunday for the first time in months and wore a mask and it actually wasn’t that bad. Our instructor has us running A LOT. One great thing about a good handling class is that they won’t just teach you the basics, they’ll teach you the best way to show your dog - meaning how to hide flaws and make your dog look the best it can.


----------



## Tagrenine

Megora said:


> @Tagrenine - see the attached video. If you jump ahead to about the 9 minute mark, Amy's working with a young golden and talks about getting the headset while free stacking. <= I love this video. It's definitely something I want to practice if I can get the dogs out somewhere tomorrow morning maybe (we have disgustingly hot temps here in the 90's so dogs are mostly staying inside during the day)....


Wow that dog is gorgeous!

I've been trying to practice teaching him to step as well! Felix will step using his front legs, but I can't get him to move his back legs without either completely resetting the stack or hand stacking them. I'm going to see if Amy has other videos. Mustapha told us to rub under his tail to relax him too, so I've been practicing that as well. Amy chooses to pick the dog up by the hind end and then adjust the hind legs accordingly, is there a reason to do it this way? Sorry it's kind of early and I'm tired, but I loved watching the free stack section and I'm just really hoping I have what it takes to get Felix to stack that well 😅 Right now I feel like my biggest problems are that 1) I constantly want to reset his feet because they never look right to me and 2) I feel like he always either posting or standing underneath himself. What he does really well is he stops without moving well. We've been practicing gaiting and transitioning into a free stack and I feel that's going well, I'm just not sure how to transition into him adjusting his legs into the right position without me doing it myself. 
Another major issue is the HEAT. The high today is 93 with 80% humidity (and according to my app its supposed to feel like 100 ). He loses a lot of motivation to work in the heat and I can't blame him.

@ArkansasGold I just checked, but our classes are still closed  I live in South Florida, and we're closing some stuff again, so I don't know how long it'll be closed  I loved going and thought the other handlers were SO helpful and nice. The instructor isn't very friendly but she told me that if I want to do dogs I need to have tough skin cause there are judges out there a lot meaner than her 😅Regardless, I thought the classes were a great experience and I can't wait until everything is open again. I got an email yesterday that all of my fall classes are going to be done through remote learning too


----------



## Megora

I honestly haven't seen Amy do the butt pick up at shows - guessing this is something she does in training? This dog was one that was tucking his butt and curling his tail a little (not fear, just insecurity) in previous videos, so could also be something she's specifically doing with this dog?

If you are down in the Miami area - completely believe you re the heat. ! When we were down there many years around mid July - we basically only went outside at the crack of dawn (just a little before) and at nighttime.  100+ degrees during the day was hell. 

Can you make a day trip or 2 up to Orlando area? Looks like the Booths are doing lessons at their facility (I'd do it if you can!). They also are doing grooming and handling seminars on Saturdays. <= I'd definitely do that just because if you look at that pup in the video. OMG he made me want to get my dogs in the bathtub and up on the table! 

@ArkansasGold - lucky. I haven't heard about when handling classes will start up again. My gut feeling is we are probably looking at August/September. We've had obedience training classes OUTSIDE and not thrilled about that (walking/running on uneven hard ground = triggers my old calf muscle tears).


----------



## Tagrenine

Megora said:


> I honestly haven't seen Amy do the butt pick up at shows - guessing this is something she does in training? This dog was one that was tucking his butt and curling his tail a little (not fear, just insecurity) in previous videos, so could also be something she's specifically doing with this dog?
> 
> If you are down in the Miami area - completely believe you re the heat. ! When we were down there many years around mid July - we basically only went outside at the crack of dawn (just a little before) and at nighttime.  100+ degrees during the day was hell.
> 
> Can you make a day trip or 2 up to Orlando area? Looks like the Booths are doing lessons at their facility (I'd do it if you can!)


I didn't know they were from Florida! I can absolutely make a trip up there! That would be wonderful and I have a feeling we could learn so much. Especially with a handler that works with Goldens! Wow that's really exciting


----------



## ArkansasGold

Tagrenine said:


> Wow that dog is gorgeous!
> 
> I've been trying to practice teaching him to step as well! Felix will step using his front legs, but I can't get him to move his back legs without either completely resetting the stack or hand stacking them. I'm going to see if Amy has other videos. Mustapha told us to rub under his tail to relax him too, so I've been practicing that as well. Amy chooses to pick the dog up by the hind end and then adjust the hind legs accordingly, is there a reason to do it this way? Sorry it's kind of early and I'm tired, but I loved watching the free stack section and I'm just really hoping I have what it takes to get Felix to stack that well 😅 Right now I feel like my biggest problems are that 1) I constantly want to reset his feet because they never look right to me and 2) I feel like he always either posting or standing underneath himself. What he does really well is he stops without moving well. We've been practicing gaiting and transitioning into a free stack and I feel that's going well, I'm just not sure how to transition into him adjusting his legs into the right position without me doing it myself.
> Another major issue is the HEAT. The high today is 93 with 80% humidity (and according to my app its supposed to feel like 100 ). He loses a lot of motivation to work in the heat and I can't blame him.
> 
> @ArkansasGold I just checked, but our classes are still closed  I live in South Florida, and we're closing some stuff again, so I don't know how long it'll be closed  I loved going and thought the other handlers were SO helpful and nice. The instructor isn't very friendly but she told me that if I want to do dogs I need to have tough skin cause there are judges out there a lot meaner than her 😅Regardless, I thought the classes were a great experience and I can't wait until everything is open again. I got an email yesterday that all of my fall classes are going to be done through remote learning too


Sometimes if you pick up their butt (just a few inches) and set it back down, their back feet will land in the correct spot, maybe only needing minor adjustments. I find this a quicker way of hand stacking than adjusting each foot individually, but I only do it if Eevee is being squatty or if she's standing crooked. For the most part, I hand stack the same way Anney does (@K9-Design). Free stacking seems to be getting better with maturity for Eevee - she has much better control over her body now that she's gotten used to her own size LOL. I've been asking her to freestack for her coat supplement (it's made with peanut butter and honey and is a treat) and her meals and adjusting her feet as needed or asking her to adjust her feet, and I think she's really starting to understand.


----------



## Megora

Tagrenine said:


> I didn't know they were from Florida! I can absolutely make a trip up there! That would be wonderful and I have a feeling we could learn so much. Especially with a handler that works with Goldens! Wow that's really exciting


DO IT!

Amy is one of those who has voluntarily come over and helped me and given me advice. She's really nice.


----------



## Tagrenine

ArkansasGold said:


> Sometimes if you pick up their butt (just a few inches) and set it back down, their back feet will land in the correct spot, maybe only needing minor adjustments. I find this a quicker way of hand stacking than adjusting each foot individually, but I only do it if Eevee is being squatty or if she's standing crooked. For the most part, I hand stack the same way Anney does (@K9-Design). Free stacking seems to be getting better with maturity for Eevee - she has much better control over her body now that she's gotten used to her own size LOL. I've been asking her to freestack for her coat supplement (it's made with peanut butter and honey and is a treat) and her meals and adjusting her feet as needed or asking her to adjust her feet, and I think she's really starting to understand.


I'll try to get a video today so you guys can critique my method  It'll have to be later, because it's very very hot outside, but hopefully you can let me know what to change! I hand stack similarly, but due to my inexperience, I think I spend too much time nitpicking and I know both he and I get frustrated. 

@Megora done! I've sent them an email 😊


----------



## Tagrenine

Yesterday we met a couple with a very large Golden. Not fat, but like, MUSCULAR. Like holy cow this guy was beefy, big head, huge thighs, etc. Showline, but BIG. We were talking and she said, referring to Felix, "He's got to be part English cream! That's why he's so thin". I was a little shocked because nobody has every called Felix thin and while I agree he has a lot of filling out to do, I didn't expect the connection of "scrawny = eng cream" lol. I explained to her that he's 11 months old and she said "oh okay" but goodness lol


----------



## CAROLINA MOM

Tagrenine said:


> Yesterday we met a couple with a very large Golden. Not fat, but like, MUSCULAR. Like holy cow this guy was beefy, big head, huge thighs, etc. Showline, but BIG. We were talking and she said, referring to Felix, "He's got to be part English cream! That's why he's so thin". I was a little shocked because nobody has every called Felix thin and while I agree he has a lot of filling out to do, I didn't expect the connection of "scrawny = eng cream" lol. I explained to her that he's 11 months old and she said "oh okay" but goodness lol


I hope you told this woman-"well bless your heart........."


----------



## Tagrenine

CAROLINA MOM said:


> I hope you told this woman-"well bless your heart........."


I should have 😂 instead I just politely explained that he wasn't and that he was just 11 months old, but I can only imagine my facial expression was quite funny, good thing I was wearing a mask 😅


----------



## Megora

That's like you saying to her, "Your dog must be part English cream, that's why he's so fat."


----------



## Tagrenine

I tried to resist the urge to say anything, but I couldn't let that comment slide 😂 Neither her nor her husband could fathom that he was just a puppy and not "part english cream".


----------



## ArkansasGold

Megora said:


> That's like you saying to her, "Your dog must be part English cream, that's why he's so fat."


My thoughts exactly! 😂


----------



## Tagrenine

Okay so I feel like we've made a lot of progress, but we still have a smallish problem 😅

First thing is first: today Felix is one year old! He still has a lot of maturing to do, but I'm proud of how far he has come.

Our biggest stacking issue now his weight distribution/crookedness! He consistently wants to bow out like a horse or stand diagonally. Is this mostly because of me 😅?

We got a few sets of shots today from inside and outside, struggled a bit with weight distribution in his hind legs, but we're getting better  I added some head shots too, but he still looks like such a puppy 😂 I did A LOT of cleaning behind his ears today and felt it made a huge difference. He has such obnoxious fur behind his ears. I have started tossing or simulating tossing the bait to get him to put his weight on his front legs properly and I'm pretty such somebody is gonna maul me in the ring if I do that, so perhaps other suggestions to get him to shift his weight on his front legs? I do tug on his tail a bit to help with that.
































































I really wish he had been standing taller in this one 😓 



















Thank you for your advice and opinions!!


----------



## tikiandme

You need to get his collar up directly behind the ears and right up under the jaw line. You should be able to have better control of him that way. He has a nice head and expression.


----------



## Tagrenine

tikiandme said:


> You need to get his collar up directly behind the ears and right up under the jaw line. You should be able to have better control of him that way. He has a nice head and expression.


Thank you!! I’m still working on my hand coordination and such, but I’ll definitely work on it! I need to take a step back anyway and put in some show lead manners a bit


----------



## Tagrenine

It was also brought to my attention today that he has (?) a short upper arm. I’m having a bit of difficult visualizing this, but how seriously could this impact an amateur finishing him?


----------



## ArkansasGold

I think your stacking is improving tremendously! but like @tikiandme said, his collar needs to be right up under his jaw bone. 

There are LOTS of Goldens with short upper arms that finish, so I don't think it will be a problem. I don't mean this in a bad way, but dogs are WAY easier to finish than bitches these days. Get some singles on him when you can (not that there will be any available anytime soon...) and you'll both gain confidence. 

If I were you, I'd start working on training his top coat to lay flat by blow drying it down and giving him weekly or biweekly baths. I also think you should start focusing on his movement - meaning figuring out the right speeds for the down and back and the go around, respectively. He should start to be more coordinated now that he's a year old, but he's still got lots of maturing to do. Watch Phil and Amy's videos. There's one where Amy went back and talked over one of their conformation classes to point out what each handler did right and wrong.


----------



## Tagrenine

ArkansasGold said:


> I think your stacking is improving tremendously! but like @tikiandme said, his collar needs to be right up under his jaw bone.
> 
> There are LOTS of Goldens with short upper arms that finish, so I don't think it will be a problem. I don't mean this in a bad way, but dogs are WAY easier to finish than bitches these days. Get some singles on him when you can (not that there will be any available anytime soon...) and you'll both gain confidence.
> 
> If I were you, I'd start working on training his top coat to lay flat by blow drying it down and giving him weekly or biweekly baths. I also think you should start focusing on his movement - meaning figuring out the right speeds for the down and back and the go around, respectively. He should start to be more coordinated now that he's a year old, but he's still got lots of maturing to do. Watch Phil and Amy's videos. There's one where Amy went back and talked over one of their conformation classes to point out what each handler did right and wrong.


Thank you! It's been quite stressful. I'm hoping to be able to go to one of the Blue Rose Kennel handling classes in the next two weeks while I'm off school, but I really need to practice his lead work again because he was like a bronco yesterday. 

Somebody actually pointed out to me that I'm blow drying wrong. His coat is flat after a couple days, but always sticks up after I blow dry, and it's because, while I try to avoid going against the grain, I blow dry in circles a lot. I'm going to make a concerted effort to focus on blow drying straight back, even if it takes longer. 

I was told to go ahead and try clicker training a "lean" command, so I can get him to lean forward versus backward on his hind legs without having to toss bait. I'm also considering using visual aids to help me see where to put his legs and also to help me see when he's crooked faster. I'm going to go back to stacking him against a wall so he doesn't bow out too. 

I think overall, I need to take a few steps back and redo some ground work. I'm going to spend a good deal of time getting him swimming and helping make him more aware of his body. Somebody kind of FB showed me before and after pictures of her dog at 1 year and 3 years and it was encouraging. I know Carlotta and Mustapha aren't concerned, I'm just one of those people (probably annoying puppy owners), that worry about everything.


----------



## ArkansasGold

Tagrenine said:


> Thank you! It's been quite stressful. I'm hoping to be able to go to one of the Blue Rose Kennel handling classes in the next two weeks while I'm off school, but I really need to practice his lead work again because he was like a bronco yesterday.
> 
> Somebody actually pointed out to me that I'm blow drying wrong. His coat is flat after a couple days, but always sticks up after I blow dry, and it's because, while I try to avoid going against the grain, I blow dry in circles a lot. I'm going to make a concerted effort to focus on blow drying straight back, even if it takes longer.
> 
> I was told to go ahead and try clicker training a "lean" command, so I can get him to lean forward versus backward on his hind legs without having to toss bait. I'm also considering using visual aids to help me see where to put his legs and also to help me see when he's crooked faster. I'm going to go back to stacking him against a wall so he doesn't bow out too.
> 
> I think overall, I need to take a few steps back and redo some ground work. I'm going to spend a good deal of time getting him swimming and helping make him more aware of his body. Somebody kind of FB showed me before and after pictures of her dog at 1 year and 3 years and it was encouraging. I know Carlotta and Mustapha aren't concerned, I'm just one of those people (probably annoying puppy owners), that worry about everything.


I agree that you are worrying too much. LOL Weekly baths will not only help train his coat to lay correctly, but "clean coat grows coat". I've been giving Eevee weekly baths for the last 6 weeks or so (only missed one week during that time) and I can tell a difference in the quality of her coat and her feathering is growing longer faster.


----------



## Tagrenine

ArkansasGold said:


> I agree that you are worrying too much. LOL Weekly baths will not only help train his coat to lay correctly, but "clean coat grows coat". I've been giving Eevee weekly baths for the last 6 weeks or so (only missed one week during that time) and I can tell a difference in the quality of her coat and her feathering is growing longer faster.


We've definitely been lax on the baths lately 😂 I should go back to doing it weekly. Would probably help me keep up with his out of control ear hair too. For the tail, I had to do a bit of trimming yesterday and took off probably 2-3 inches of fur. It's SO LONG. How you do you Eevee's?


----------



## ArkansasGold

I pull her tail straight out toward me and get as much hair as I can in between my thumb and pointer finger in a circle with the length that I want to cut off sticking out. Then I take my long straight shears and cut it off straight down (point is facing the ground). Whatever didn't make it into the initial trim, I trim off to match the rest. The end of her tail usually looks like a compressed makeup brush. After that, I let the hair go (still holding it straight out) and I use my thinning shears to clean up the profile and trim any additional length off to make the nice, neat line as shown in my sig pic. I hope this makes sense. 

Some people twist the tail before they trim it, and I have done that before, but I don't think it makes much of a difference. There is a thread somewhere on the forum where I posted pictures of doing Rocket's tail.


----------



## tikiandme

The picture with you kneeling, and you wished you could get his head up higher....Try it standing instead of kneeling. Make sure you have that lead right up behind his ears/jaw. Keep his head straight and pull up on his head so it's higher instead of so far forward, and you'll have the look you're looking for. Try keeping his head up and then pull just a bit on his tail and he should thrust his chest forward and look really good. When the lead isn't up where it needs to be he's leaning his head too far forward instead of up. 
When he is three years old, look back at these pictures and you won't believe it's the same dog. He's coming along nicely.


----------



## Tagrenine

ArkansasGold said:


> I pull her tail straight out toward me and get as much hair as I can in between my thumb and pointer finger in a circle with the length that I want to cut off sticking out. Then I take my long straight shears and cut it off straight down (point is facing the ground). Whatever didn't make it into the initial trim, I trim off to match the rest. The end of her tail usually looks like a compressed makeup brush. After that, I let the hair go (still holding it straight out) and I use my thinning shears to clean up the profile and trim any additional length off to make the nice, neat line as shown in my sig pic. I hope this makes sense.
> 
> Some people twist the tail before they trim it, and I have done that before, but I don't think it makes much of a difference. There is a thread somewhere on the forum where I posted pictures of doing Rocket's tail.


Thank you! It does make sense  I think I need to use the thinning shears a bit more than I already have. I actually got my hair cut the other day and asked my hair dresser how to use the thinning shears 😅 I've finally gotten the hang of the stripping knives, so it's just one at a time. 

Eevee is beautiful, I'm going to look for that thread of Rocket's tail!


----------



## Tagrenine

tikiandme said:


> The picture with you kneeling, and you wished you could get his head up higher....Try it standing instead of kneeling. Make sure you have that lead right up behind his ears/jaw. Keep his head straight and pull up on his head so it's higher instead of so far forward, and you'll have the look you're looking for. Try keeping his head up and then pull just a bit on his tail and he should thrust his chest forward and look really good. When the lead isn't up where it needs to be he's leaning his head too far forward instead of up.
> When he is three years old, look back at these pictures and you won't believe it's the same dog. He's coming along nicely.


Thank you! That's what everyone keeps telling me. I feel bad that he's my guinea pig, but hopefully he can be my entrance into the show dog world, so I'd love to do my best for him  I appreciate all the advice and encouragement! I would be lying if I said some days I wasn't discouraged, but other days I feel more confident


----------



## ArkansasGold

Tagrenine said:


> Thank you! It does make sense  I think I need to use the thinning shears a bit more than I already have. I actually got my hair cut the other day and asked my hair dresser how to use the thinning shears 😅 I've finally gotten the hang of the stripping knives, so it's just one at a time.
> 
> Eevee is beautiful, I'm going to look for that thread of Rocket's tail!


Thank you! I’m very proud of her.

On the note about being disappointed, conformation has lots of ups and downs and you have to persist through the downs. For instance, I straight up (or down?!?) slipped on the wet grass in the rain the other day in Canfield and looked like I was sliding into home instead of coming to a stop for Eevee’s free stack. Showing to Doug Johnson of course... Thankfully I actually did play softball and just popped right back up instinctively. LOL Eevee still got fourth, but I was so embarrassed! Seriously though, you are paying for that judge’s opinion of how your dog matches up to the standard on that particular day. Sometimes it will be your day, sometimes it won’t. Sometimes the pros will take all the placements and points, and sometimes you will be a Cinderella story. You have to go in believing you have the best dog in the ring and you have to show that dog like it’s the best in the ring and judges will take notice. Attitude counts for a lot in the conformation ring.


----------



## tikiandme

Don't think of Felix as your guinea pig, think of him as your future champion. If you get discouraged, take a few days off and practice something else like tricks or obedience, or just take him out for ice cream. Just do some fun stuff and then come back with a fresh perspective. Try not to over-think everything.....have fun......


----------



## Megora

Tagrenine said:


> Somebody actually pointed out to me that I'm blow drying wrong. His coat is flat after a couple days, but always sticks up after I blow dry, and it's because, while I try to avoid going against the grain, I blow dry in circles a lot. I'm going to make a concerted effort to focus on blow drying straight back, even if it takes longer.


When I dry my guys - it's blow back against the grain until most of the water in the coat is blown off, and then I start from the head down to the tail blowing the coat the way it's supposed to flow. And I repeat until coat is dry. Circles create ruffled coat and flippies - especially with feathers. Any long coat (bib, feathers, trousers, tail) just blow straight down.

He looks like he's really getting a handsome big boy head. <B

@ArkansasGold - funniest thing that happened in the ring for me was me losing my shoes in the ring (outside, wet grass).  Judge laughed his head off about it. We got a reserve that day so it wasn't a huge deal.

Other notable things that stand out - last year had a show where I looked TERRIBLE because the shoes I'd decided to wear were suddenly HUGE on me. I could not run because they felt like I was going to lose them. Thinking back on it, I wish I had just kicked the shoes off and run barefoot around the ring. Jovi might have done something in the winners ring if I'd shown him better vs me gallumping around and messing up his gaiting.... >.<

Other thing that stands out - another outdoor show. It was super hot outside (upper 80's) and I remember chugging a lot of water before going into the ring because I really didn't want to pass out. I did not pass out, but as Bertie won the open class and we went back into the winners ring, I remember barely holding together. Didn't notice that when the judge sent me around, Bertie paced the whole way. >.< Everyone outside the ring including his breeders were hollaring and rooting for him and telling me to stop and go back. Judge really liked him and had us go back again - and we got the win. I think if I'd handed him off to his breeder or somebody else who wasn't about hitting the grass DYING, he might have had a chance at winning the breed based on how much the judge liked him.

Guess it kinda puts it into perspective that stuff happens in the ring and judges don't hold it against an amateur handler if the dog is really nice and they like the dog.


@Tangerine - About how the dog stands - as long as he stands with his feet square and legs straight, you work with what you have. Judge won't hold it against him.


----------



## Tagrenine

Megora said:


> When I dry my guys - it's blow back against the grain until most of the water in the coat is blown off, and then I start from the head down to the tail blowing the coat the way it's supposed to flow. And I repeat until coat is dry. Circles create ruffled coat and flippies - especially with feathers. Any long coat (bib, feathers, trousers, tail) just blow straight down.
> 
> He looks like he's really getting a handsome big boy head. <B
> 
> @ArkansasGold - funniest thing that happened in the ring for me was me losing my shoes in the ring (outside, wet grass).  Judge laughed his head off about it. We got a reserve that day so it wasn't a huge deal.
> 
> Other notable things that stand out - last year had a show where I looked TERRIBLE because the shoes I'd decided to wear were suddenly HUGE on me. I could not run because they felt like I was going to lose them. Thinking back on it, I wish I had just kicked the shoes off and run barefoot around the ring. Jovi might have done something in the winners ring if I'd shown him better vs me gallumping around and messing up his gaiting.... >.<
> 
> Other thing that stands out - another outdoor show. It was super hot outside (upper 80's) and I remember chugging a lot of water before going into the ring because I really didn't want to pass out. I did not pass out, but as Bertie won the open class and we went back into the winners ring, I remember barely holding together. Didn't notice that when the judge sent me around, Bertie paced the whole way. >.< Everyone outside the ring including his breeders were hollaring and rooting for him and telling me to stop and go back. Judge really liked him and had us go back again - and we got the win. I think if I'd handed him off to his breeder or somebody else who wasn't about hitting the grass DYING, he might have had a chance at winning the breed based on how much the judge liked him.
> 
> Guess it kinda puts it into perspective that stuff happens in the ring and if the judges don't hold it against an amateur handler if the dog is really nice and they like the dog.
> 
> 
> @Tangerine - About how the dog stands - as long as he stands with his feet square and legs straight, you work with what you have. Judge won't hold it against him.


Thank you!!

I got a video of us working some today and while I didn't even think to put the phone in landscape mode, I felt it helped me see what I was doing and how he looked.

Unfortunately in every single shot, his head is missing 😅 but you can see all his legs. I'm going to try to get another video this afternoon in landscape but I'm really happy with how he was earlier today. He wasn't fussy at all and I felt by standing in front of him, he was much more receptive to me. Let me know what you guys think if you'd like


----------



## tikiandme

When you were baiting him from the front, he had a very nice profile....


----------



## Tagrenine

tikiandme said:


> When you were baiting him from the front, he had a very nice profile....


Thank you! Today was definitely a better day. His breeder told me I need to start bringing a toy with me or making training more fun because he looks so bored while gaiting. So I'm going to spend some time getting him excited for the show lead and excited to work, hopefully it'll perk him up


----------



## Tagrenine

The whole video is about 10 minutes long so I just got screenshots instead 😅 our stacking has improved a LOT!!
We’re still battling the heat and his desire to work in it. Carlotta told us we should start bringing toys or doing fun things on lead to get his head and tail up. I’m at the point where I’m thinking of letting him gait with a stick in his mouth, but he’s getting better  he’s starting out strong and then fading as the heat kills us.

Some lady walked by and goes “aren’t you hot?” while sweat is dripping down my face. I had another wonderful person recommend taking him out to like a pool or to do something he loves while on the show lead so he gets excited, I think we’re going to try that too


----------



## ArkansasGold

Those photos look great! Fantastic job! I can definitely see improvement. He is a nice boy!


----------



## Tagrenine

ArkansasGold said:


> Those photos look great! Fantastic job! I can definitely see improvement. He is a nice boy!


Thank you!! Just a little bit a day has made tons of difference. I'm grateful to all the help and tips I've received here too! This is definitely a journey 😅


----------



## Emmdenn

He’s looking great!!


----------



## Tagrenine

Sorry for all the updates guys! @Megora we dried her fur down on his back and his topline looks so much better  Thank you so much for your advice! @ArkansasGold we spent some time on his tail today and good lord there is so much, but it's starting to come out  Here are today's groomed photos. I don't know when we're going to hit the ring and he has a lot of maturing to do, but I'm proud of him


----------



## Megora

Great job<:

If you were showing, one last thing that I would do is just lightly go over with a soft slicker, brushing the coat the way it's supposed to go.

With the furnishings (bib, feathers, trousers, tail), I would add a little dab of silk spirits or one of the sprays to add moisture to the coat. That will prevent the little flyaways like you see with his trousers a little bit.

Keep drying him that way, baths and blow dries every couple weeks - it will train the coat to lie smooth so pre-show prep is very minimal..

Tail looks a little long still. 

I think the feathers on his front legs are just young dog feathers growing out.... (little guy has a lot of coat for a young guy!) - and I think this might be a style point from one handler to the next, but if you trim, only trim from the bottom (back of big pads on feet).


----------



## Tagrenine

Megora said:


> Great job<:
> 
> If you were showing, one last thing that I would do is just lightly go over with a soft slicker, brushing the coat the way it's supposed to go.
> 
> With the furnishings (bib, feathers, trousers, tail), I would add a little dab of silk spirits or one of the sprays to add moisture to the coat. That will prevent the little flyaways like you see with his trousers a little bit.
> 
> Keep drying him that way, baths and blow dries every couple weeks - it will train the coat to lie smooth so pre-show prep is very minimal..
> 
> Tail looks a little long still.
> 
> I think the feathers on his front legs are just young dog feathers growing out.... (little guy has a lot of coat for a young guy!) - and I think this might be a style point from one handler to the next, but if you trim, only trim from the bottom (back of big pads on feet).


Thank you!! Do you have a recommendation for what spray to use? 

I will take some more off his tail with the next groom  The tail is annoying, it is very very thick and makes it difficult for a newbie like me to figure out what looks right. I think he has another inch maybe before his tail bone. 

He has a lot of feathering on his front legs and basically 0 on his hocks...he's growing fur crooked lol. 

His greatest fault that sticks out to me in these photos is the slope of his croup and his slightly low tailset. Do you have grooming tips for kind of masking that? Or is it more just recognizing that it is a fault and moving past that?


----------



## ArkansasGold

Tagrenine said:


> Thank you!! Do you have a recommendation for what spray to use?
> 
> I will take some more off his tail with the next groom  The tail is annoying, it is very very thick and makes it difficult for a newbie like me to figure out what looks right. I think he has another inch maybe before his tail bone.
> 
> He has a lot of feathering on his front legs and basically 0 on his hocks...he's growing fur crooked lol.
> 
> His greatest fault that sticks out to me in these photos is the slope of his croup and his slightly low tailset. Do you have grooming tips for kind of masking that? Or is it more just recognizing that it is a fault and moving past that?


Actually, yes there is something you can do about it. You can fluff up the hair on his croup (do not go past the hip joint) by back brushing from tail to hip and just lightly lay it back down so it looks less steep. At a show you can even back brush and hairspray, then very lightly lay it back down and it will stay fluffed and reduce the slope of the croup/hide the low tail set without looking sloppy. You can also strip out extra undercoat at the hip joint and a little before to help blend it even more if the first tip doesn’t get you where you want to be.

Regarding his tail, if you only have about an inch of hair past his tail bone, you really can only take another half inch or so off without getting uncomfortably close to the bone/tip. As far as faults go, a slightly long tail is usually toward the bottom of a judge’s priority list.


----------



## Megora

When you are drying him, you could pay attention to how the coat lies in that area. Make sure the fur over his rear is lying smooth (why I said go over with a slicker). Same thing up over his shoulders.

CC Silk Spirits - I put a dab on my hands like I'm putting lotion on my hands and lightly smooth over the outside of my dog's jacket with that. Same thing for furnishings. It's an oil type product, so you don't want too much. It mainly adds shine + smooths down coat (prevents flyaway).








Chris Christensen Silk Spirits Liquid Silk Protein


Transform damaged skin and coat with Silk Spirits moisturizing Liquid Silk Protein with Panthenol to achieve a smooth silky texture, lively volume and a shimmering shine. Achieve instant luster and manageability, smoothing rough cuticles while relaxing waves and split ends without ever feeling...




www.showdogstore.com





Pure Paws H2O Hydrating Mist - I love the smell of this (it's like blueberries). I spritz over my dog all over before going back over with my hands or lightly with a slicker.








Pure Paws H2O Hydrating Mist


Pure Paws H2O Hydrating Mist seals in moisture! This unique formula helps keep moisture in the hair shafts controlling dry fly away coats.




www.showdogstore.com





I like all the Pure Paws product quite honestly....

EZ Groom Ruff Out








E-Z Groom Ruff Out Finishing Spray Ready to Use


Ruff Out is a leave in formulation which creates body and texture without leaving any residue.




www.showdogstore.com





^ Have been using as a brushing spray + have used in a pinch to get bibs, etc to lie better especially with the pups.

Other golden people use products like Crown Royal Magic Touch and Bio Groom Super Foam Coat Dressing (going off memory as far as what I've seen)....

about the tail - if you twist the tail before trimming, you want to keep at least 3 fingers between the shears and the end of the tail. Twisting before trimming  will also catch up some of the longer feathers and minimize how much shaping you have to do. 

You want 3 fingers between the shears and the end of the tail + check against the point of the hock to make sure you aren't cutting too short... :


----------



## Tagrenine

ArkansasGold said:


> Actually, yes there is something you can do about it. You can fluff up the hair on his croup (do not go past the hip joint) by back brushing from tail to hip and just lightly lay it back down so it looks less steep. At a show you can even back brush and hairspray, then very lightly lay it back down and it will stay fluffed and reduce the slope of the croup/hide the low tail set without looking sloppy. You can also strip out extra undercoat at the hip joint and a little before to help blend it even more if the first tip doesn’t get you where you want to be.
> 
> Regarding his tail, if you only have about an inch of hair past his tail bone, you really can only take another half inch or so off without getting uncomfortably close to the bone/tip. As far as faults go, a slightly long tail is usually toward the bottom of a judge’s priority list.


Thank you so much!! I think working with his croup is something I will have to practice and kind of test out what works as he grows. He enjoys being on the grooming table now, so experimenting with his has become a lot easier 🤣 Not to say he doesn't have plenty of faults, but its difficult for me to notice until they're pointed out to me. I've spent a good portion of today scouring K9 Data and looking at other Goldens, comparing types, etc. 

Regarding his tail, the very last tail bone comes pretty much directly to the top of his hocks. Is my goal for the fur of his tail to come there? In the above pictures, where the top of his hock is, is pretty much exactly where his tail bones end, so perhaps I could remove about half an inch? I'm not sure I can do much more than that.


----------



## Tagrenine

Megora said:


> When you are drying him, you could pay attention to how the coat lies in that area. Make sure the fur over his rear is lying smooth (why I said go over with a slicker). Same thing up over his shoulders.
> 
> CC Silk Spirits - I put a dab on my hands like I'm putting lotion on my hands and lightly smooth over the outside of my dog's jacket with that. Same thing for furnishings. It's an oil type product, so you don't want too much. It mainly adds shine + smooths down coat (prevents flyaway).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris Christensen Silk Spirits Liquid Silk Protein
> 
> 
> Transform damaged skin and coat with Silk Spirits moisturizing Liquid Silk Protein with Panthenol to achieve a smooth silky texture, lively volume and a shimmering shine. Achieve instant luster and manageability, smoothing rough cuticles while relaxing waves and split ends without ever feeling...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.showdogstore.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pure Paws H2O Hydrating Mist - I love the smell of this (it's like blueberries). I spritz over my dog all over before going back over with my hands or lightly with a slicker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pure Paws H2O Hydrating Mist
> 
> 
> Pure Paws H2O Hydrating Mist seals in moisture! This unique formula helps keep moisture in the hair shafts controlling dry fly away coats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.showdogstore.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like all the Pure Paws product quite honestly....
> 
> EZ Groom Ruff Out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> E-Z Groom Ruff Out Finishing Spray Ready to Use
> 
> 
> Ruff Out is a leave in formulation which creates body and texture without leaving any residue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.showdogstore.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^ Have been using as a brushing spray + have used in a pinch to get bibs, etc to lie better especially with the pups.
> 
> Other golden people use products like Crown Royal Magic Touch and Bio Groom Super Foam Coat Dressing (going off memory as far as what I've seen)....


Thank you so much! I'm going to go ahead and order these now and take the time to practice with them. I'm excited for to start showing him, even if he needs to grow up a bit more 🥰 All the advice has been SO helpful.


----------



## hotel4dogs

If you don't already, you might want to follow Amy and Phil Booth on YouTube under their BlueRose Kennels channel. They have some great videos on how to groom Goldens.


----------



## Tagrenine

Thank you! We're actually trying to plan a trip to Orlando in a couple weeks to go to their handling class too  I'm considering saving up to do one of their several day long seminars, but am thinking of waiting until he's a little older


----------



## hotel4dogs

They are wonderful, helpful people. Both of them, real class acts. 



Tagrenine said:


> Thank you! We're actually trying to plan a trip to Orlando in a couple weeks to go to their handling class too  I'm considering saving up to do one of their several day long seminars, but am thinking of waiting until he's a little older


----------



## Tagrenine

Wanted to give a quick update, we're going to Phil and Amy's labor day seminar! Hopefully I'll get some pictures for you guys and be able to share how it was. We're looking forward to it


----------



## Tagrenine

The seminar has come and gone...

Amy and Phil were wonderful. There were a lot of Goldens and a handful of other breeds, so they just split us into two "classes". Felix was better than I expected him to be, especially since we haven't gotten to go to class in 7 months. Amy gave me some grooming tips, mostly his ears, which seem to be my nemesis. After handling, they walked us through the ins and outs of a dog show, what to expect, how COVID changed everything, etc. Felix got to go play in a field with the other Goldens and then every Golden got to go swimming. There was an IG famous Golden there named Kevin, but I didn't recognize anyone else. Amy told me I should show him in October in Ocala and try to show at least once a month so by the time he's mature and actually ready to show, he'll be there mentally. 

I'm going to try but holy cow. Felix really isn't a small dog, he's a good 67 lbs and 23.25/23.5 inches to the withers, but good lord he isn't like some of the males out there yet. There was a 9 month old puppy who I thought was 2-3 until I asked and Kevin his head was HUGE. I asked Amy about it and she said "Felix is balanced, he's still growing, his head is perfect for his body." And basically told me to let him keep growing and to not compare him to the other dogs in the ring.

And finally, here's the video. Feel free to laugh at me almost falling over my dog 🤣


----------



## Ffcmm

oh gosh it looks so fun and helpful! Is felix from slower to mature lines?


----------



## ArkansasGold

He looked great! Don’t worry about Kevin having a big head - he’s a completely different style of Golden than Felix is. You are better off with a slow maturing dog that looks great at 2-3 than one that matured fast, finished at 18 months and then falls apart at maturity.


----------



## Tagrenine

Ffcmm said:


> oh gosh it looks so fun and helpful! Is felix from slower to mature lines?


I want to say yes, but honestly, I really don't know enough about specific Golden lines to give you an answer 😅 I know Carlotta told us repeatedly that Goldens look their best at 3-4 and I've noticed they don't typically send their males out until 3-4 to maybe? I do know that Felix didn't really hit puberty until maybe 11 months old, so it's possible!



ArkansasGold said:


> He looked great! Don’t worry about Kevin having a big head - he’s a completely different style of Golden than Felix is. You are better off with a slow maturing dog that looks great at 2-3 than one that matured fast, finished at 18 months and then falls apart at maturity.


Thank you 🥰This is definitely a good discussion into style as well, I felt like I learned so much yesterday about different styles that I really hadn't noticed before because I hadn't seen many Goldens in person. Overall it was a really nice experience and good for me to practice as well as him. Amy telling me I need to get the hang of not straddling him 🤣She asked us if we had any classes to go to down here and when we said "not really, they're still closed", her and another woman were brainstorming places to practice with him down here and coming up short. Basically explained that SFlorida is, for some reason, lacking dog activities. She talked about planning another seminar and I'm hoping we can go to another one of those before showing. 

I'll let him take the next few months to mature physically, maybe get him into puppy agility classes or scentwork and doing something fun nearby while he's maturing. He's such a happy go lucky boy. Yesterday, while running around in the field, he tripped a kid. Here's the video for a laugh, he guy was a good sport about it lol.


----------



## ArkansasGold

Tagrenine said:


> I want to say yes, but honestly, I really don't know enough about specific Golden lines to give you an answer 😅 I know Carlotta told us repeatedly that Goldens look their best at 3-4 and I've noticed they don't typically send their males out until 3-4 to maybe? I do know that Felix didn't really hit puberty until maybe 11 months old, so it's possible!
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you 🥰This is definitely a good discussion into style as well, I felt like I learned so much yesterday about different styles that I really hadn't noticed before because I hadn't seen many Goldens in person. Overall it was a really nice experience and good for me to practice as well as him. Amy telling me I need to get the hang of not straddling him 🤣She asked us if we had any classes to go to down here and when we said "not really, they're still closed", her and another woman were brainstorming places to practice with him down here and coming up short. Basically explained that SFlorida is, for some reason, lacking dog activities. She talked about planning another seminar and I'm hoping we can go to another one of those before showing.
> 
> I'll let him take the next few months to mature physically, maybe get him into puppy agility classes or scentwork and doing something fun nearby while he's maturing. He's such a happy go lucky boy. Yesterday, while running around in the field, he tripped a kid. Here's the video for a laugh, he guy was a good sport about it lol.


Will you have any shows to go to anytime soon? It will be good for you both to get in the ring and have some good experiences. There’s basically two different kinds of showing: getting out there with a young dog/novice handler to get some practice and have good experiences, get used to the insanity that is dog shows, etc. Then there’s showing with a mature dog, chasing majors, and really trying to win.


----------



## Tagrenine

ArkansasGold said:


> Will you have any shows to go to anytime soon? It will be good for you both to get in the ring and have some good experiences. There’s basically two different kinds of showing: getting out there with a young dog/novice handler to get some practice and have good experiences, get used to the insanity that is dog shows, etc. Then there’s showing with a mature dog, chasing majors, and really trying to win.


We're going to try going to the one in Ocala, I just have to get dates, times, etc. This is my last semester in this program I'm in so after this, I should have more time. But we're gonna try and I asked her if we should do the Novice class or the 12-18 months and she said "If I were you, I'd take advantage of the 12-18 month class while you can" and then said if we go, we can always call/email her for help. For the show lead, do you use one that matches your dog's coat? I think I'll need to pick up a new one if that's the case.


----------



## ArkansasGold

My show leads are purple because it’s my favorite color and because it’s the color of winning. 😂 I use Herm-Sprenger flat link chains (2.5 mm links, 22” long I think) for showing, but if you use a nylon collar, most of those match the dog’s coat. I will probably order a new show lead when Eevee finishes, but idk what color it will be yet. Probably still purple though if I’m being honest. Show leads come in all colors. It’s really just whatever you like!


----------



## Tagrenine

ArkansasGold said:


> My show leads are purple because it’s my favorite color and because it’s the color of winning. 😂 I use Herm-Sprenger flat link chains (2.5 mm links, 22” long I think) for showing, but if you use a nylon collar, most of those match the dog’s coat. I will probably order a new show lead when Eevee finishes, but idk what color it will be yet. Probably still purple though if I’m being honest. Show leads come in all colors. It’s really just whatever you like!


Now that's an idea!! I want to get better control with him and teach him to pay attention so I don't run into him making turns. I like the idea of the chains, they don't get tangled in her coat at all? I like his black lead now because its soft and easy for me to use, but goodness it gets stuck in his soft fluff all the time.


----------



## ArkansasGold

The chains don't get tangled and they make it easier to give a correction/cue. You can also lock them under the chin so they stay put for gaiting. I also hold Eevee's lead away from me at almost arm's length so she doesn't bump into me and it helps keep me out of the judge's picture - especially on the down and back. She is very responsive to small cues from the lead travelling down to the chain and telling her which direction to go and what speed. I bought my flat links chains from Panagenics. My one show lead is from Beads on Leads. It was a gift, so I don't know how much it cost, but I know it wasn't cheap. I bought another show lead from a friend that cost $85 and I have another friend that makes them from satin cord instead of leather, so they are soft, strong, really pretty, and still affordable. 

Oh and I agree with Amy on not showing in Novice or Amateur - you are basically shouting to the judge that you don't know what you're doing. The National is really the only show where it might be worth it to be in one of those classes because then you can brag that you won a class at the National and made into the Winners ring. At regular shows, stay in 12-18 while you can and then move to Open. Don't do Am-bred.


----------



## Tagrenine

ArkansasGold said:


> The chains don't get tangled and they make it easier to give a correction/cue. You can also lock them under the chin so they stay put for gaiting. I also hold Eevee's lead away from me at almost arm's length so she doesn't bump into me and it helps keep me out of the judge's picture - especially on the down and back. She is very responsive to small cues from the lead travelling down to the chain and telling her which direction to go and what speed. I bought my flat links chains from Panagenics. My one show lead is from Beads on Leads. It was a gift, so I don't know how much it cost, but I know it wasn't cheap. I bought another show lead from a friend that cost $85 and I have another friend that makes them from satin cord instead of leather, so they are soft, strong, really pretty, and still affordable.
> 
> Oh and I agree with Amy on not showing in Novice or Amateur - you are basically shouting to the judge that you don't know what you're doing. The National is really the only show where it might be worth it to be in one of those classes because then you can brag that you won a class at the National and made into the Winners ring. At regular shows, stay in 12-18 while you can and then move to Open. Don't do Am-bred.


Oof, guess I better start looking  thank you for the advice on the chain, I think we'll go ahead and look for some to get. I would probably have to do a satin cord first, or get a leather one and break it in because I need something super flexible. 

What size are your links?


----------



## ArkansasGold

Mine are actually 1.5 mm links.


----------



## Tagrenine

ArkansasGold said:


> Mine are actually 1.5 mm links.


Thank you! Now I just have to find a nice lead to go with the chain  The Beads on Leads are super nice, but I guess they don't produce new leads too often


----------



## Tagrenine

I wasn't planning on updating until he was a little older, but we're going to a show to visit an Ibizan breeder so I cleaned him up a bit! Naturally the ears are still a work in progress but I learned a lot from Amy and put into practice what I learned. Everything else is coming out well. While I may still be an amatuer, he's become great and hand stacking and kind of free stacking. His hind legs don't usually land square, but the fronts are nice. I did manage (I think?) to make his croup look less steep, now it'll just be combatting that short upper arm lol and for some reason he's a little high in the rear again 🤪 It's amazing what 2 months can change lol. Here's hoping he looks more put together in another year 🍻


----------



## mylissyk

He really is maturing nicely.


----------



## Tagrenine

Thank you! As of today I'm in the process of trying to enter a local match show and my entry form needs to be there by the 11th so I'm really cutting it close. Hoping that it ends up being good practice for the both of us and to give me more confidence, I'm so nervous 😅


----------



## Megora

Good luck - glad you got in touch with Amy!!!


----------



## Tagrenine

Megora said:


> Good luck - glad you got in touch with Amy!!!


Thank you! All I'm hoping for at this point is that I don't trip and fall 🤣


----------



## Tagrenine

We had a GREAT day today. We have been practicing leash manners religiously for the last several weeks and behavior on a flat collar. Today we took him out to public with lots of distractions and brought his confo leash in case we were going to be able to practice, and he was a superstar! Below are the videos of just a little bit of his obedience practice (and play!) that we did today and another video of the conformation practice we did! I wanted to especially practice inside turns because that is where I struggle and we did so much better. His stacking is coming along really well and I think as long as I remember to keep his front legs under him, we're gonna do okay at the show 😁


----------



## Rion05

Tagrenine said:


> We had a GREAT day today. We have been practicing leash manners religiously for the last several weeks and behavior on a flat collar. Today we took him out to public with lots of distractions and brought his confo leash in case we were going to be able to practice, and he was a superstar! Below are the videos of just a little bit of his obedience practice (and play!) that we did today and another video of the conformation practice we did! I wanted to especially practice inside turns because that is where I struggle and we did so much better. His stacking is coming along really well and I think as long as I remember to keep his front legs under him, we're gonna do okay at the show 😁


Wow, he's really growing up! I can tell the two of you are going to have a blast together!

So my guy doesn't usually randomly drool at home...but at shows? Since I don't let him sniff the ground on lead (he's also my obedience dog, so that's a habit that I can't let him start at shows per my instructor), he air-sniffs like mad and drools up a storm! I note a small string of drool in your film. Maybe bring a towel and stash it ringside? The last weekend I showed my boy he was drooling so badly that when the judge came over to check the bite I said, "he's a bit drooly." Judge took a look and said, "oh my yes...why don't you show me the bite?" Hahahahaha! Boys!


----------



## Tagrenine

Rion05 said:


> Wow, he's really growing up! I can tell the two of you are going to have a blast together!
> 
> So my guy doesn't usually randomly drool at home...but at shows? Since I don't let him sniff the ground on lead (he's also my obedience dog, so that's a habit that I can't let him start at shows per my instructor), he air-sniffs like mad and drools up a storm! I note a small string of drool in your film. Maybe bring a towel and stash it ringside? Last weekend I showed my boy he was drooling so badly that when he came over to check the bite I said, "he's a bit drooly." Judge took a look and said, "oh my yes...why don't you show me the bite?" Hahahahaha! Boys!


Thank you SO MUCH. He drools like this all the time. I can't tell if its the smells or the prospect of treats, but every single time we go on a walk LOL. I wasn't sure I was allowed to bring a rag in the ring but I'm SO GLAD I can 🤣 He's a drool machine.


----------



## Rion05

Tagrenine said:


> Thank you SO MUCH. He drools like this all the time. I can't tell if its the smells or the prospect of treats, but every single time we go on a walk LOL. I wasn't sure I was allowed to bring a rag in the ring but I'm SO GLAD I can 🤣 He's a drool machine.


I'd just hide it with a pal or on a chair just outside the ring and you'll be good! Best of luck!


----------



## K9-Design

Yes, I've learned to take a washcloth with me and stash it in my ringside bag. One piece of drool will ruin your lovely grooming job.

OKAY GURRRRRL quit trying to run in flip flops!!!


----------



## Tagrenine

Thank you both! And ugh, I only have one pair of closed toe shoes and I forgot to bring them, I think I'm going to have to set an alarm in my phone to make sure I bring them to the match lol. I do everything in flip flops. 

My grooming job still leaves a lot to be desired LOL but we're still practicing and trying to improve, it's all part of the experience. Keeping the crazy drool out of it is part of the battle 🤣


----------



## ArkansasGold

I stuff napkins or paper towels in my bra 🤷🏼‍♀️😂 and I keep a hand towel in my ringside bag.


----------



## Megora

Funny thing to share - was at handling class earlier this week...

Classes are an hour long and that usually means most of us do the dash to switch dogs after the first 1/2 hour.

Glee was in the first 1/2 hour for me. And with him he's still pretty young and puppyish in a lot of ways. So if there were girlies in season in the class or a prior class, he had no idea. I also think he's a lot like his dad who even after he was bred a couple times, still pretty much had no idea about some smells... 

2nd half hour brought Jovi in and it was kinda practice for potential dog shows where we might not be allowed in the building until literally ring-time. Which I thought would be fine for Jovi since he's settled down a little now he's 2.... OMG. We were in a class with 2 newfies and a st. Bernard - and Jovi outdrooled all of them. Wash cloths or paper towels are must needs! ! There was a spot in the room where definitely some dog either sat down or dribbled and Jovi just wanted to live there.


----------



## Megora

He looks good in the videos especially moving... maybe only crit I can think of at the moment is echoing what I've been told. When you do a down and back and free stack in front of the judge - you want to be able to fix your dog's feet without reaching in and touching them. 

And OMG - he has so much more coat than my baby and I think he's 2 months younger than Glee.


----------



## Ffcmm

Megora said:


> you want to be able to fix your dog's feet without reaching in and touching them.


sorry to jump in, but this is interested, could you share what you mean? I'm having a hard time picturing this.


----------



## Tagrenine

Megora said:


> He looks good in the videos especially moving... maybe only crit I can think of at the moment is echoing what I've been told. When you do a down and back and free stack in front of the judge - you want to be able to fix your dog's feet without reaching in and touching them.
> 
> And OMG - he has so much more coat than my baby and I think he's 2 months younger than Glee.


Thank you for the advice! I haven't figured out how to adjust the hind feet yet without touching them, but he's -usually- pretty good about his fronts. 

And YES the coat good lord. The feathering on his chest is very long and I feel like it kind of affects his silhouette and makes him look like he's wearing silk disco pants. I was reading through the little blue book last night and watching some more Westminster videos and he just has so much feathering on his chest. And quite a bit on his hips too I think, but basically no fur on his hocks. I'm hoping it looks a little more balanced as he grows but 🤪


----------



## Rion05

ArkansasGold said:


> I stuff napkins or paper towels in my bra 🤷🏼‍♀️😂 and I keep a hand towel in my ringside bag.



Hahahahaha!

I am glad to hear that I'm not the only one with a golden who sometimes drools like mad! 😂 Yes, there was a girl in season parking right near us in the parking lot...we were all basically showing out of our vehicles and running to the building when it was our turn (COVID rules). Meanwhile, I was trying to keep drool out of that floofy chest fur...good times...🤪

Tangerine, he DOES have awesome feathering - longer on the chest than my two-year old. You are going to have so much fun with him!


----------



## K9-Design

Okay not sure how to write this but I feel he is moving in a very restricted manner, like he wants to RACE but he's been corrected enough that he knows to behave and he's nervous to let himself be loose and easy. Am I right about this situation? He's holding his tail low and his legs are moving in a restricted, staccato cadence. You absolutely need to stop trying to run in flip flops, and get off the grass. I think these two things could be affecting it.


----------



## Tagrenine

Yes I agree completely! He looks his best gaiting when he is proudly carrying something in his mouth, but when on lead, he gets stressed because he wants to play and he can't play on lead. And also partly I think because he wants to look up at me and check in to see if he's doing it right. I can try practicing more gaiting without his lead on to see if that helps? Or maybe taking him to more exciting places on the show lead. Or I guess running faster. I'm not really sure, because now I have better control but he's having to restrict himself because of it 😅 I am also not very good at identifying what a good gait should look like. It is harder for me to see it.


----------



## K9-Design

I did also notice that you're looking right down at him when you're gaiting, and yes he's wanting to look up at you. I glance down at my dog the second we start out to make sure they're trotting and not pacing, then I look back up and GO. Best of luck.


----------



## Tagrenine

Thank you! Hopefully time will improve things. I know I'll probably have to hire a handler but I'm hoping I really get to enjoy the experience of showing him myself 🥰


----------



## Megora

Tagrenine said:


> Thank you! Hopefully time will improve things. I know I'll probably have to hire a handler but I'm hoping I really get to enjoy the experience of showing him myself 🥰


I think that time will definitely improve things... just kinda see what other handlers do and mimic them a little? 

As Felix learns his job out there (and from the videos it looks like he's getting the idea), you can relax a little and focus on doing other things. That will come. 

After seeing Anney's comment was trying to think of what I normally do - and I think it's the same I do for obedience? I look at where I expect to see my dog's head, but kinda keep my head more straight? 

@shoes - gotta admit that I'm kinda trying to figure out how noticeable it would be if when shows start up again, I go out there wearing my ryka sneakers.... literally only thing that lets me move freely with my dogs.


----------



## Tagrenine

I definitely need to work on looking forward, it reminds me of when I ride and my trainer yells at me to keep my eyes up unless I want to end up on the ground. I just ordered a pair of sneakers and I'm going to have to use something sturdy because if I don't I know I'm going to fall out of my shoes. He can be a bit difficult to handle when he's excited.

I got the order of go for his match on the 28th and he's the only Golden entered in the open class lol. I think it'll be a good experience to get him in the ring without me being completely overwhelmed but I was hoping there would be another person I could ask for advice there lol. It looks like we go at 9ish and the show is over by 11ish. I'm tossing around the idea of entering him in the Lakeland shows, maybe one or two.

Thank you guy SO much for all your advice, I don't know if I would've come this far without y'all.


----------



## Tagrenine

Our first show wasn't a disaster!!

In all seriousness, I'm actually really proud of us. He did better than I expected him too and I didn't fumble around too much. I definitely picked up some things I need to remember for next time. We definitely need more practice and more exposure, but overall it was a lot of fun and fast. He got a toy for "winning" the breed. We ended up with the BOB (only Golden), Group 1 (out of two) and didn't place in BIS, but I'm more than happy with how he did  The Great Dane got RBIS and the Whippet got BIS. I never realized how much work it was to keep his furry butt clean. I've attached some videos and pictures


----------



## CAROLINA MOM

Great to hear, now that you have the first one under your belt so to speak, you'll both be more relaxed and it will be even more enjoyable.


----------



## tikiandme

He's looking really good, ( grooming, presentation). The only thing I would suggest is for you to try to relax more (easier said than done, I know) and don't bait him on the go 'round or the down and back. It messes up his movement because he keeps looking for the bait instead of just moving with you. When you do the go round, right before you take off, try taking a deep breath, then relax and show him there is no bait in your hand, then drop your hand and take off and try to look forward and not at him. If you feel you need more control, try shortening his lead more while gaiting him for awhile. You two look really good together. You just need to keep at it and you'll gain more confidence. He has grown into a very nice looking boy....


----------



## Tagrenine

Thank you!! Yes that is not something I normally do but someone at the show suggested I try it because I was really struggling to control him. I have blisters on my hand lol. But it was weird and I felt it didn't really do him any favors. I was a little envious of the Dane handler because her dog was so tall she could just grab his collar and gait him and had great control. I think the biggest thing is we need more practice in areas with other dogs. He is so good at home that I don't feel it is doing us any good to practice at home, so we're trying to plan another show to take him to, even if just for him to get experience going around the ring. 

As for the nervousness, I kept telling myself that I wasn't nervous, but as soon as we stacked in the group ring, my leg started shaking 😭I had to calm down just so I could run. Overall, I'm mostly happy. Also the judge really wanted his attention and he wouldn't give it to her if I had the bait, so I ended up putting the bait away at one point so he would look at her. I'm thinking that is an important part of gathering expression? I'm not really sure, but she kept clicking and eventually pulled a peppermint out of her pocket to get his attention. She said "he must really like that hot dog you have huh?"


----------



## ArkansasGold

tikiandme said:


> He's looking really good, ( grooming, presentation). The only thing I would suggest is for you to try to relax more (easier said than done, I know) and don't bait him on the go 'round or the down and back. It messes up his movement because he keeps looking for the bait instead of just moving with you. When you do the go round, right before you take off, try taking a deep breath, then relax and show him there is no bait in your hand, then drop your hand and take off and try to look forward and not at him. If you feel you need more control, try shortening his lead more while gaiting him for awhile. You two look really good together. You just need to keep at it and you'll gain more confidence. He has grown into a very nice looking boy....


I agree with this! 

Handlers usually only have bait in their hands for dogs that drop their head when they gait, but I don’t think Felix will have that problem. He’s ready to get up and go! 

I have to get my brain in a totally different mode for conformation vs other venues. Conformation is about presenting the dog, while other sports are about teamwork. Now that Eevee knows what she’s doing, I’m trying very hard to minimize my handling of her. Meaning that I let her stack herself when possible and give her a little more leash than I used to, etc.


----------



## ArkansasGold

Tagrenine said:


> Thank you!! Yes that is not something I normally do but someone at the show suggested I try it because I was really struggling to control him. I have blisters on my hand lol. But it was weird and I felt it didn't really do him any favors. I was a little envious of the Dane handler because her dog was so tall she could just grab his collar and gait him and had great control. I think the biggest thing is we need more practice in areas with other dogs. He is so good at home that I don't feel it is doing us any good to practice at home, so we're trying to plan another show to take him to, even if just for him to get experience going around the ring.
> 
> As for the nervousness, I kept telling myself that I wasn't nervous, but as soon as we stacked in the group ring, my leg started shaking 😭I had to calm down just so I could run. Overall, I'm mostly happy. Also the judge really wanted his attention and he wouldn't give it to her if I had the bait, so I ended up putting the bait away at one point so he would look at her. I'm thinking that is an important part of gathering expression? I'm not really sure, but she kept clicking and eventually pulled a peppermint out of her pocket to get his attention. She said "he must really like that hot dog you have huh?"


I have the same issue with Eevee re: not looking at the judge, so I’ve started faking having bait in my hand so that she will at least lean forward and not post, then I show her an empty hand and she will look at the judge when they ask for it. She’s so super food driven that I’ve had to really work on timing of giving it to her. 

Also, when you showed his bite, you got in the way and the judge had to lean around you. Practice showing his bite to your partner without leaning over him so you get used to it without having to see what you’re showing.


----------



## Tagrenine

Thank you Maegan!! He loves to RUN !! Felix is like living in a fast and furious movie, everything happens at maximum speed lol. He is getting so much better at stacking and I know with more experience he'll be even better. I mostly sets himself up well and what I've realized I need to do is bait him forward a little, but that's mostly it. 

And yes! I will definitely need a more efficient way to deal with the bait. I liked the slacks but it was way too difficult to fumble around with the bait in my pocket and took up a lot of time. That's something that I think will come with practice here, is learning how to control my limbs better and be more efficient. 

As for his bite, I have a question. I don't think I'm presenting it back far enough, do I have to show all of his molars? I struggled a bit because she wanted to see more of the bite than I was initially showing and that is something I'll have to practice at home. Just manipulating him better and smoother. It was a super learning experience and I got more experience than I expected. And it was so much fun 🥰


----------



## tikiandme

Tagrenine said:


> Thank you!! Yes that is not something I normally do but someone at the show suggested I try it because I was really struggling to control him. I have blisters on my hand lol. But it was weird and I felt it didn't really do him any favors. I was a little envious of the Dane handler because her dog was so tall she could just grab his collar and gait him and had great control. I think the biggest thing is we need more practice in areas with other dogs. He is so good at home that I don't feel it is doing us any good to practice at home, so we're trying to plan another show to take him to, even if just for him to get experience going around the ring.
> 
> As for the nervousness, I kept telling myself that I wasn't nervous, but as soon as we stacked in the group ring, my leg started shaking 😭I had to calm down just so I could run. Overall, I'm mostly happy. Also the judge really wanted his attention and he wouldn't give it to her if I had the bait, so I ended up putting the bait away at one point so he would look at her. I'm thinking that is an important part of gathering expression? I'm not really sure, but she kept clicking and eventually pulled a peppermint out of her pocket to get his attention. She said "he must really like that hot dog you have huh?"


I thought you were using bait like that to try to keep control. It's good to try different ways. You mentioned the Dane handler, she is almost to his collar. You can kind of imitate that by dropping your arm down farther and keeping the lead rather short while he gaits (not as short as with the Dane, of course). That might help a little. (I'm probably not explaining it well?) He's a beautiful, young, happy, wild boy. I had one of those once. The best dog I ever had. Sometimes with him it was more like wrestling an alligator than handling a dog. Have fun and enjoy the ride! And yes, they want to see all of the teeth. You have to stretch his lips back. I saw a video someone did on showing the bite. You could probably find something by doing a search.


----------



## Tagrenine

tikiandme said:


> I thought you were using bait like that to try to keep control. It's good to try different ways. You mentioned the Dane handler, she is almost to his collar. You can kind of imitate that by dropping your arm down farther and keeping the lead rather short while he gaits (not as short as with the Dane, of course). That might help a little. (I'm probably not explaining it well?) He's a beautiful, young, happy, wild boy. I had one of those once. The best dog I ever had. Sometimes with him it was more like wrestling an alligator than handling a dog. Have fun and enjoy the ride!


Thank you so much! I will definitely try that next time. He loves life so much and I want to try to foster that in the show ring. Within reason. He's officially starting OB classes in January too, so hopefully by the middle of the summer we'll have an obedience title on him. There is so much I want to do with him, I wish I had more time 😭 We are going to try to attend handling class again on Monday and I'll try a shorter lead then. I really appreciate your advice!


----------



## SoCalEngr

Let me preface this by noting that this is an observation, and in no way intended as criticism. It's simply a glimpse into a perspective on goldens that is well beyond anything that I imagined.

So, I've been lurking on this thread (a bit), and O, M. G. As a "pet owner", I feel this thread gives me some insight into the difference in mindsets between "pet" and "hobby". And, man, the difference is huge! If nothing else, this thread should be used to help all us "pet owners" to being to understand the mindset behind "hobby".

Recognizing that we all benefit from the hobbyist's dedication to the breed, I'm grateful to be freeloading on your efforts. In all honesty, we're insanely happy with our basic obedience, socialization, and grooming/husbandry routine. But, all this pales in comparison to the discussions y'all are having.

Best of luck in your endeavors, and thanks for that level-of-care that we all benefit from.


----------



## tikiandme

Tagrenine said:


> Thank you so much! I will definitely try that next time. He loves life so much and I want to try to foster that in the show ring. Within reason. He's officially starting OB classes in January too, so hopefully by the middle of the summer we'll have an obedience title on him. There is so much I want to do with him, I wish I had more time 😭 We are going to try to attend handling class again on Monday and I'll try a shorter lead then. I really appreciate your advice!


I had to shorten the lead sometimes with my "alligator" when he was a bit too "up". I've seen handlers do it with a new dog until they got into the swing of things, so it would be something to try, just when he gets to be a little too much. In most of your videos from when he was younger, though, he was gaiting very well without any problems and he looked really great. He was excited and having fun at the show. Sometimes they get full of themselves. That's not a bad thing. Years ago, the top golden handler at the time told me it's a lot easier to calm a dog down than it is to have to perk one up.


----------



## tikiandme

Blue Rose has a youtube video on how to show a dog's bite.......


----------



## Tagrenine

Thank you for the video referral! I will have to watch it tonight. I am hoping to be able to see Amy in January for grooming advice if we decide to attend a bigger, pointed show. Not that I'm expecting to win but I want to go preparing for the future! It is overwhelming sometimes, but I've been able to incorporate a lot. I know the competitive shows will be a different experience, but I have to start somewhere!

@SoCal I appreciate this! It is a lot to take in and requires a pretty good portion of my time and energy, second only to school lol. Hopefully this thread will be helpful for anyone else wanting to get started too and not even knowing how to start. There is so much good advice and experience here and I'm grateful to everyone who has offered it.


----------



## Tagrenine

I'm here to post an 18 month old update. Between all the classes and training I haven't put as much into conformation, so I cleaned him up the best I could for some progress shots. He's maturing, albeit slowly and the wind was working against us. We were supposed to do a big show in January, but a hot spot on his tail and a subsequent shave prevented that. I've been having a lot of fun with him practicing for other venues while I wait for him to mature to be competitive in the conformation ring. Plus it is giving more confidence. I feel like the more I learn about Goldens, the less I actually know lol. 

Next time I'll set his hind feet a bit further back, but he was cooperative and he had fun and that was important to me. 









This photo just makes me laugh because of the wind lol.


----------



## Tagrenine

We entered a match show kind of on a whim and had a ton of fun!! It was a HUGE difference compared to the one from November 2020. Someone mentioned that he’s changed a lot even from a few months ago. We’re planning on showing in June, and maybe once more before the National


----------



## Tagrenine

Felix and I are entered in the OH class of a speciality in a couple of weeks. My friend has helped me immeasurably when it comes to grooming and handling advice, as well as just general show knowledge and encourgement. The other advice posted in this thread has been so wonderful.

I mentioned that I have a hard time *not* fault judging Felix, but I feel like I fixate on them. Overall I'm happy but I'm struggling to set up his hind end. I do need to clean up his neck and do general scissor work, but that'll be closer to show day. I mentioned that it looks like he "skipped leg day" because his front has so much more than his rear lol. I wish he had more coat than what he does.










This stack isn't perfect, but I was getting frustrated and I decided to end before I got too stressed lol. He's always better when we have space to gait into the stack but the yard is being renovated so it was unavailable.

We love this boy and despite the fact that sometimes I have a hard time seeing past his faults, I know there are parts of him that are good too. As he matures, he's been easier to practice ring work with. I have slowly come to understand that professionals are professionals for a reason.

I hope everyone else's show season is going well and I'm hoping to meet a lot of you in October!


----------



## Megora

I think he looks really nice in that stack. He's definitely growing up. <B

OH class - you typically are the only one in the ring. Might be different at a specialty, but typically.... That's good if you want a sure trip into the winners ring - and more experience in the ring with him, going out there a couple times. 

Where it is tricky is having a quick stack (the 3-5 second stack) and making a big impression on the judge from the very small amount of time you are in the ring for your class - before you go into the winners ring.


----------



## Tagrenine

Thanks Kate! I’ve heard that I probably shouldn’t stay in OH too long, but I don’t think I’m ready for the open yet, maybe after a couple of shows! 
I’m going to do my best to make an impression on the judge but I’m primarily using the show as a training experience for us. 
We’re showing to Doug Johnson (learning all the judges us another experience!)


----------



## Rion05

Tagrenine said:


> Felix and I are entered in the OH class of a speciality in a couple of weeks. My friend has helped me immeasurably when it comes to grooming and handling advice, as well as just general show knowledge and encourgement. The other advice posted in this thread has been so wonderful.
> 
> I mentioned that I have a hard time *not* fault judging Felix, but I feel like I fixate on them. Overall I'm happy but I'm struggling to set up his hind end. I do need to clean up his neck and do general scissor work, but that'll be closer to show day. I mentioned that it looks like he "skipped leg day" because his front has so much more than his rear lol. I wish he had more coat than what he does.
> 
> View attachment 883406
> 
> 
> This stack isn't perfect, but I was getting frustrated and I decided to end before I got too stressed lol. He's always better when we have space to gait into the stack but the yard is being renovated so it was unavailable.
> 
> We love this boy and despite the fact that sometimes I have a hard time seeing past his faults, I know there are parts of him that are good too. As he matures, he's been easier to practice ring work with. I have slowly come to understand that professionals are professionals for a reason.
> 
> I hope everyone else's show season is going well and I'm hoping to meet a lot of you in October!


He's maturing nicely! You are going to have so much fun with him!


----------



## livduse

Tagrenine said:


> Felix and I are entered in the OH class of a speciality in a couple of weeks. My friend has helped me immeasurably when it comes to grooming and handling advice, as well as just general show knowledge and encourgement. The other advice posted in this thread has been so wonderful.
> 
> I mentioned that I have a hard time *not* fault judging Felix, but I feel like I fixate on them. Overall I'm happy but I'm struggling to set up his hind end. I do need to clean up his neck and do general scissor work, but that'll be closer to show day. I mentioned that it looks like he "skipped leg day" because his front has so much more than his rear lol. I wish he had more coat than what he does.
> 
> View attachment 883406
> 
> 
> This stack isn't perfect, but I was getting frustrated and I decided to end before I got too stressed lol. He's always better when we have space to gait into the stack but the yard is being renovated so it was unavailable.
> 
> We love this boy and despite the fact that sometimes I have a hard time seeing past his faults, I know there are parts of him that are good too. As he matures, he's been easier to practice ring work with. I have slowly come to understand that professionals are professionals for a reason.
> 
> I hope everyone else's show season is going well and I'm hoping to meet a lot of you in October!


How old is he now? Gus was very slow to mature, and I know that him and Felix have many relatives in common. He’s looking good, and will definitely improve with age!😊


----------



## Tagrenine

Rion05 said:


> He's maturing nicely! You are going to have so much fun with him!


Thank you! I’m already having fun and I hope it keeps just getting better 🤣


----------



## Tagrenine

livduse said:


> How old is he now? Gus was very slow to mature, and I know that him and Felix have many relatives in common. He’s looking good, and will definitely improve with age!😊


Felix is…22 months old now!! Carlotta told me Goldens look their best at 4-5, but I just want him to be his best -now- LOL.


----------



## Megora

Age 3 is about the point where they are at their best.... 

You can enter him in Ambred. That's pretty much where I'm keeping Glee for another year. He's filling out very nicely, but he definitely is more slow maturing than his brother who probably could have gone into Open by the time he was 9 months old.


----------



## livduse

Tagrenine said:


> Felix is…22 months old now!! Carlotta told me Goldens look their best at 4-5, but I just want him to be his best -now- LOL.


I totally understand! Gus will be 3 in August and he still doesn’t have as much coat as I would like, but they’re all beautiful dogs. I have no doubt Felix will get there eventually. Roma is his sister right?


----------



## Tagrenine

Megora said:


> Age 3 is about the point where they are at their best....
> 
> You can enter him in Ambred. That's pretty much where I'm keeping Glee for another year. He's filling out very nicely, but he definitely is more slow maturing than his brother who probably could have gone into Open by the time he was 9 months old.


I can’t wait until three! I appreciate that advice. So Ambred is basically for dogs who aren’t quite ready for Open?


----------



## Tagrenine

livduse said:


> I totally understand! Gus will be 3 in August and he still doesn’t have as much coat as I would like, but they’re all beautiful dogs. I have no doubt Felix will get there eventually. Roma is his sister right?


One day 😭 and yeah! Roma is his littermate.


----------



## Megora

Tagrenine said:


> I can’t wait until three! I appreciate that advice. So Ambred is basically for dogs who aren’t quite ready for Open?


It can be.

It can also be a place to put dogs when you are juggling multiples.


----------



## Tagrenine

We competed at the MFGRC Speciality show yesterday...and it was fun! He was a bad boy but overall it was a good experience. I was very nervous and it was very obvious. I do have some regrets about entering the novice class because I felt rushed that didn't help at all with the nerves. I wish I had done more shows with him when he was younger, but here we are now lol. I got some wonderful advice from some wonderful people following the class and I'm hoping by our next show he'll remember that he's walked on a leash before. Enjoy!


----------



## Megora

Actually not that bad. 

Leash handling and bait handling - these are 2 things you need to work on before the next show. 

Talk to Amy if you are doing drop in there or somebody else nearby who can show you hands on how to hold the lead, where to hold the leash hand, and where to have bait when you are moving, etc.

My take remotely is take your time before you begin moving. Make sure you have the lead ends neatly folded in your left hand. Take the time to tuck the collar up under the jaw and set his head before you begin moving. Give all the bait from your right hand that you had been baiting with to him so he knows your hand is empty. I always keep a piece in my cheek to fish out when we stop and stack up. 

Keep your bait hand quiet - you can have it out to maintain your balance when running, but you don't want to draw his attention with it. 

Wait until you stop and stack before fishing the bait out to begin baiting again. 

He stacked very nicely for you, stood very nicely during the exam. He looked well groomed and really looks ready to win. 

The gaiting portion he was looking for the bait and was looking around to your other hand. That's the part to work on before the next show. But I think if you get that cleaned up, he should start winning for you. He looks good.


----------



## Megora

OK 1 stack nit -

When you do a fast-stack with him, place the judge's side first and then set his head. And don't pull his head too far forward. 

You had time to set his feet and set his head because the judge was looking the other way. Most judges will literally turn their backs when you enter the ring and give you time to set up. Not so much with novice (I'll bet he didn't want a stack when you went it, but just sent you around), but definitely in the winners ring.


----------



## Tagrenine

Megora said:


> Actually not that bad.
> 
> Leash handling and bait handling - these are 2 things you need to work on before the next show.
> 
> Talk to Amy if you are doing drop in there or somebody else nearby who can show you hands on how to hold the lead, where to hold the leash hand, and where to have bait when you are moving, etc.
> 
> My take remotely is take your time before you begin moving. Make sure you have the lead ends neatly folded in your left hand. Take the time to tuck the collar up under the jaw and set his head before you begin moving. Give all the bait from your right hand that you had been baiting with to him so he knows your hand is empty. I always keep a piece in my cheek to fish out when we stop and stack up.
> 
> Keep your bait hand quiet - you can have it out to maintain your balance when running, but you don't want to draw his attention with it.
> 
> Wait until you stop and stack before fishing the bait out to begin baiting again.
> 
> He stacked very nicely for you, stood very nicely during the exam. He looked well groomed and really looks ready to win.
> 
> The gaiting portion he was looking for the bait and was looking around to your other hand. That's the part to work on before the next show. But I think if you get that cleaned up, he should start winning for you. He looks good.



Thank you!! I definitely fumble the lead around and can't seem to balance lead vs bait. I feel so uncoordinated. I live kind of far from Amy but I think I can pull off at least one handling class and then come home and apply that here. I can also definitely practice that too, maybe even just practice bait placement without the dog so I don't fumble it so much. I also really can never figure out what to do with my bait hand but having it confidently empty makes so much more sense. I wish the dress had pockets. Now that we don't have to wear masks anymore I can start practicing with it in my mouth. 



Megora said:


> View attachment 883715
> 
> 
> OK 1 stack nit -
> 
> When you do a fast-stack with him, place the judge's side first and then set his head. And don't pull his head too far forward.
> 
> You had time to set his feet and set his head because the judge was looking the other way. Most judges will literally turn their backs when you enter the ring and give you time to set up. Not so much with novice (I'll bet he didn't want a stack when you went it, but just sent you around), but definitely in the winners ring.


That is exactly the reason I got so flustered in novice. I walked in the ring ready to setup, but they were trying to tell me something. I couldn't hear them and then someone yelled "go around!" and I tried to gather my lead to go around. I kind of recovered but I felt bad for not being able to hear anybody. I didn't realize to start with the judge's side first and I'll keep that in mind when we practice too. Working on everything separately is easy enough but then putting it all together in the ring with a dog 3/4 of the way between adult and puppy brain adds another challenging layer. 

He is starting to get the looks, now he just needs a handler to keep up with him!


----------



## DanaRuns

I think you did great.


----------



## Tagrenine

DanaRuns said:


> I think you did great.


Thank you Dana!!


----------



## livduse

Tagrenine said:


> We competed at the MFGRC Speciality show yesterday...and it was fun! He was a bad boy but overall it was a good experience. I was very nervous and it was very obvious. I do have some regrets about entering the novice class because I felt rushed that didn't help at all with the nerves. I wish I had done more shows with him when he was younger, but here we are now lol. I got some wonderful advice from some wonderful people following the class and I'm hoping by our next show he'll remember that he's walked on a leash before. Enjoy!
> 
> View attachment 883704
> 
> 
> View attachment 883705
> 
> 
> View attachment 883706
> 
> 
> View attachment 883710


He looks great and has matured a lot since I saw a picture of him last!


----------



## diane0905

Tagrenine said:


> We competed at the MFGRC Speciality show yesterday...and it was fun! He was a bad boy but overall it was a good experience. I was very nervous and it was very obvious. I do have some regrets about entering the novice class because I felt rushed that didn't help at all with the nerves. I wish I had done more shows with him when he was younger, but here we are now lol. I got some wonderful advice from some wonderful people following the class and I'm hoping by our next show he'll remember that he's walked on a leash before. Enjoy!
> 
> View attachment 883704
> 
> 
> View attachment 883705
> 
> 
> View attachment 883706
> 
> 
> View attachment 883710


I enjoyed watching this and you both did great.


----------



## Tagrenine

diane0905 said:


> I enjoyed watching this and you both did great.


Thank you!!


----------



## Rion05

He's looking great - and you want to see bad? Hahahaha! Oh...my boy is finally growing up a bit, but he's been SSSOOOOO much worse than yours at a show.  

He is really looking nice and I applaud you for showing him yourself in AKC with all of the handlers. Great job!


----------



## Tagrenine

Rion05 said:


> He's looking great - and you want to see bad? Hahahaha! Oh...my boy is finally growing up a bit, but he's been SSSOOOOO much worse than yours at a show.
> 
> He is really looking nice and I applaud you for showing him yourself in AKC with all of the handlers. Great job!


I need to see Finn showing! I'm hoping something magically changes when Felix turns 3 🤣 we do so much work with him you'd think he would behave by now. He's so big its _hard_ to remember they're still adolescents.


----------



## Tagrenine

Small update! I'm swamped with stuff but we did show in WPB all three days! The first day we get RWD, which while a big deal for an amateur like me, I feel the judge was taking pity on us because he was AWFUL. The judge was SO nice and told me to start going into the ring without bait and it was like night and day!

Saturday and Sunday weren't as successful but his performance improved through the weekend! The video is from Sunday and the photos are from throughout the weekend.


----------



## Megora

Reserve to a 2 pointer is not a pity reserve. You beat out some big name handlers for that reserve. That something to toot your horn about.  

I've heard really nice things about Dr. Spritzer. He is a good judge.

Congrats!!!!


----------



## livduse

Tagrenine said:


> Small update! I'm swamped with stuff but we did show in WPB all three days! The first day we get RWD, which while a big deal for an amateur like me, I feel the judge was taking pity on us because he was AWFUL. The judge was SO nice and told me to start going into the ring without bait and it was like night and day!
> 
> Saturday and Sunday weren't as successful but his performance improved through the weekend! The video is from Sunday and the photos are from throughout the weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 884406
> 
> 
> View attachment 884407


Congrats!! He looks great. He’s still young and will only continue to improve, no need to worry!


----------



## Rion05

Great job!!! That is so awesome!!! He is looking really nice!!!


----------



## ArkansasGold

I’m so proud of you! Y’all have really come a long way and you get better every time you show. 

I loved showing to Dr. Spritzer last year. He was so very nice.


----------



## diane0905

Congratulations! He’s beautiful and y’all did great.


----------



## Tagrenine

So in addition to agility, we're doing two big show weekends back to back. Our first is in Ohio and then Tampa. This will be our first time showing the Open classes and I'm so excited. 




























We did a pregroom today and will wrap up next week at the show. He looks better daily and no matter the outcome, I always enjoy going out with him.


----------



## CAROLINA MOM

Best of luck to you and Felix!


----------



## Megora

He is definitely ready for open. <B


----------



## Tagrenine

Megora said:


> He is definitely ready for open. <B


Thank you!! Now it’s a matter of whether or not I’m ready for the Open 🤣


----------



## ArkansasGold

He does look better every day!!! Good luck! Wish I was showing with you!


----------



## Megora

Tagrenine said:


> Thank you!! Now it’s a matter of whether or not I’m ready for the Open 🤣


You'll do fine. 

If it's Marion - looks like there's 7 dogs. That means there's probably 3-4 in Open - so there's a definite possibility that the judge will see your boy out there. It does unfortunately also mean you'll have less time out there in front of the judge then perhaps if there were like say more than 5 dogs out there in Open. Means you have to get him set up in a timely fashion and make sure your dog is always set up and looking good. When moving him, take your time before you start to gait him. When you get to the other end of the d/b, pause to look at the judge and line yourself up and go back. Going around leave enough space in front, get all the lead in your hand before you start going. Trust that he will be fine. He's got a couple shows under his collar so he likely is getting used to what he does out there. You both will do fine. 

Good luck<:


----------



## Tagrenine

Megora said:


> You'll do fine.
> 
> If it's Marion - looks like there's 7 dogs. That means there's probably 3-4 in Open - so there's a definite possibility that the judge will see your boy out there. It does unfortunately also mean you'll have less time out there in front of the judge then perhaps if there were like say more than 5 dogs out there in Open. Means you have to get him set up in a timely fashion and make sure your dog is always set up and looking good. When moving him, take your time before you start to gait him. When you get to the other end of the d/b, pause to look at the judge and line yourself up and go back. Going around leave enough space in front, get all the lead in your hand before you start going. Trust that he will be fine. He's got a couple shows under his collar so he likely is getting used to what he does out there. You both will do fine.
> 
> Good luck<:


Thank you!! We'll be in Canfield, but I think there are only 7 dogs, maybe 9. My biggest issue with him is sometimes he paces when we go around or do the down and back, so that will be the most important thing for me to work on in the ring. I just need to remember to take my time with everything and not worry about rushing him into it because when I rush he looks sloppy. I'm excited for some cooler temperatures too. It may not be much cooler but anything will be a break. He definitely seems like he's starting to understand what he's supposed to do in the ring and as long as I don't take any bait with me, I should survive


----------



## livduse

Tagrenine said:


> So in addition to agility, we're doing two big show weekends back to back. Our first is in Ohio and then Tampa. This will be our first time showing the Open classes and I'm so excited.
> 
> View attachment 884601
> 
> 
> View attachment 884602
> 
> 
> View attachment 884603
> 
> 
> We did a pregroom today and will wrap up next week at the show. He looks better daily and no matter the outcome, I always enjoy going out with him.


Good luck, he looks fantastic!


----------



## Tagrenine

We celebrated Felix’s 2nd birthday at the dog show 🤣 

This show was an incredible learning experience. We had our ups and downs. The very first day I forgot to change my shoes and showed in flip flops, but the biggest struggle was showing all of his teeth through his tongue. I practiced that overnight and improved. The second day was better and the third not so much. The heat was getting to Felix and it was obvious he did not want to show and I was getting frustrated with him. The judges were all pleasant.
The fourth day was the best and I felt a lot better. The numbers were very small (Thurs: 4, Fri: 5, Sat: 5, Sun: 4) and we placed 4, 4, 0, 3 in the Open respectively.
I watched the best of breed and tried to emulate some of what those handlers did on Sunday. The video is from Sunday, adding the other days would take too long. Advice is always welcome. Enjoy!


----------



## Tagrenine

We showed this past weekend in Tampa and I’m so proud of him. We got rained on day 2 and I didn’t bring a dryer so he got a bit frizzy by the end of it but overall he showed well for me and the pros there gave me a ton of advice. I didn’t have anyone to get photos but I do have a couple one of my friends edited from Ohio.

























My grooming is getting better but there are still small things I need to improve on!
Our breeder asked us to send him out with a professional ahead of the National so he left on Sunday. This wasn’t really the easiest decision for me and it kind of feels like giving up, but my time is starting to grow thin and I think I still have a lot to learn before he and I start winning together.
One of my favorite things about the shows has been how obvious it is I am an amateur and how patient the judges are when I don’t understand something. A couple have encouraged me to keep at it and not give up, which is pretty encouraging 🤣


----------



## diane0905

He's beautiful and you should keep at it! You're doing such a great job with him. He's still a young dog.


----------



## Tagrenine

diane0905 said:


> He's beautiful and you should keep at it! You're doing such a great job with him. He's still a young dog.


Thank you! I hope to. I have started interviewing for medical schools and the dog show stress is a good distraction from the medical school stress. It just means I have less time for the things I enjoy 🤣 
If he does start winning with a professional, I’m going to try to soak up as much as I can to understand why he’s winning with her and what she’s doing to make him stand out.


----------



## diane0905

Tagrenine said:


> Thank you! I hope to. I have started interviewing for medical schools and the dog show stress is a good distraction from the medical school stress. It just means I have less time for the things I enjoy 🤣
> If he does start winning with a professional, I’m going to try to soak up as much as I can to understand why he’s winning with her and what she’s doing to make him stand out.


Congratulations! My SIL is an ophthalmologist and I remember when he was doing all of that. It's a lot of stress. Graduation is exciting, so something for you to look forward to. It was fun when they announced which schools they would be going to. We also went to his white coat ceremony or whatever it was called. Such a proud moment.

I'm sure all the experience helps plenty when handling a dog -- and I imagine some have a gift also as far as that is concerned.


----------



## Tagrenine

Thanks Diane! It is stressful and I like to joke that if med school doesn’t work out I’m going to show dogs professionally 🤣


----------



## Tagrenine

Felix is back with us for the foreseeable future now that the national is over. He had two Ibizan hound ladies here to keep him busy. He did good out and I’m happy with how well taken care of he was and how much work was put into him. He is indeed a lot of dog and showing him is work!
Also, especially comparing him to the fine animals in Ocala, he is noticeably out of condition. It’s one thing when he’s the only Golden you know, but between stewarding the CCA and watching the class and breed dogs, I really understood just how much more he needed to bulk up -and- drop. His handler as such gave me that as homework for when she’s able to take him again.
For now, he’s going to be showing with me and I’m hoping to finally get points myself with him 🤣 here are some pics of bad man
































I’m sorry if these are huge, formatting doesn’t make sense on mobile

i forgot to add one of my favs!


----------



## diane0905

He's a pretty boy. Photos aren't huge here.


----------



## Tagrenine

diane0905 said:


> He's a pretty boy. Photos aren't huge here.


Thank you!! Wish I had seen you and Logan if you went ?


----------



## diane0905

Tagrenine said:


> Thank you!! Wish I had seen you and Logan if you went ?


My niece (husband's sister) got married over the weekend in Charleston, S.C. It was a Thursday night reception and Friday night wedding.

Wish I had been able to come and see everyone!


----------



## Tagrenine

We finished up a show weekend in Ocala where I was planning to show him, but his breeder offered since they would be there too. Felix lost all weekend but at least he lost for free 😎 Sunday was too hot for him and he did not show well, but Friday was the beginning of something good and Saturday he really started to look like a show dog. 
Some feedback I got that I can do at home is: weight loss, he is still a couple of pounds overweight, more conditioning (I just ordered a treadmill so we’ll see if that helps), and I need to spend way more time engaging with him and helping him to understand that the dog show is something to take seriously and not goof off in.


----------



## Megora

Mmm.... bowing to the knowledge of the breeder who - I believe her husband is a very successful handler. 

But looking at the pictures, I don't think he's overweight persay... he just needs conditioning to buff up a little more. More muscle....


----------



## Tagrenine

Yeah that’s the gist of what I got. His ribs are pretty palpable but comparing to other dogs I got to run my hands over, he has a lot he needs to gain muscle mass wise. He is basically in “pet” condition and not working condition and he’s a little flabby through his shoulders. 
Im pretty tired of losing but it has shown me how much work goes into producing a winning dog.


----------



## Megora

He looks gorgeous and clearly well trained based on those pictures. He is vey close to that point where dogs start winning everything.


----------



## Tagrenine

Megora said:


> He looks gorgeous and clearly well trained based on those pictures. He is vey close to that point where dogs start winning everything.


It means a lot to metaphorically hear you say that. The journey has been a long one. One of the first questions I asked on this forum was something along the lines of “do you think his paws are good enough to be a show dog?” And I think I’ve come a long way from there 🤣


----------



## DanaRuns

He does look a little heavy I guess, but not bad. I do like to see a cut-in on the loin. But my problem is usually my dogs are too thin rather than too fat. I think he looks good! And he looks like he knows his job!


----------



## Tagrenine

DanaRuns said:


> He does look a little heavy I guess, but not bad. I do like to see a cut-in on the loin. But my problem is usually my dogs are too thin rather than too fat. I think he looks good! And he looks like he knows his job!


Thank You!! I’m hoping we can get the fitness we want him in before Royal Canin but he really has come a long way from the gangly puppy I started this thread about 🤣


----------



## Prism Goldens

He certainly has! It was great seeing you. 
Are you coming to Newberry?


----------



## Tagrenine

Prism Goldens said:


> He certainly has! It was great seeing you.
> Are you coming to Newberry?


Great seeing you too!! I wish I was going to Newberry  our next show will be Royal Canin.


----------



## Emmdenn

Seeing him in person and having hands on him, definitely not fat — but (and we talked about this) could be fitter and more conditioned, but you’re doing everything to get him there! And I agree with Megora, I feel like he’s almost at the point in looks and maturity to really start being competitive. Even at the National wasn’t playing as much and was engaged with the handler, he’s getting there. He’s a really really nice boy. Hang in there…it’s coming!!


----------



## Tagrenine

We got a DogPacer last week and have been using it daily. Our goal is 2 miles a day and when I have time 4 miles. These are on the preset settings and the 2 miles takes 30 minutes at varying speeds.
One of the benefits I’ve noticed is his pacing. I think he is really starting to understand his body because when we first started, he was constantly trying to pace. The last couple of days he’s been correcting himself into a trot and today he was trotting at every speed, even when the treadmill slowed down. It really reminds me of training a green horse. 
I’ve added a photo of what one week has done to his body condition. I know the shadows aren’t helping, but there has been a little bit of progress.


----------



## Rion05

Tagrenine said:


> We got a DogPacer last week and have been using it daily. Our goal is 2 miles a day and when I have time 4 miles. These are on the preset settings and the 2 miles takes 30 minutes at varying speeds.
> One of the benefits I’ve noticed is his pacing. I think he is really starting to understand his body because when we first started, he was constantly trying to pace. The last couple of days he’s been correcting himself into a trot and today he was trotting at every speed, even when the treadmill slowed down. It really reminds me of training a green horse.
> I’ve added a photo of what one week has done to his body condition. I know the shadows aren’t helping, but there has been a little bit of progress.
> View attachment 887585



Hey there! He's looking good! I think part of it is simple maturity, but exercise certainly doesn't hurt. We also started to use a Dog Pacer after final OFAs - LOVE it! I ABSOLUTELY think that it helps the dog understand what trotting is, as opposed to pacing - my dog immediately breaks into a trot on the Pacer now. With our weather extremes, it is a lifesaver with our high-energy boy! I want him to understand what a trot is not only for conformation, but our obedience trainer likes him to heel in a "working trot"...so useful all around. My boy trots often naturally to travel here or there, but now he also does it when prompted. Keeping him in hard, working condition.  Best to you and your boy!


----------



## Tagrenine

This has got to be the most demoralizing sport I’ve ever participated in 🤣 Felix showed today in the open in Orlando. Despite behaving much better (we might actually be making progress there), he showed relatively poorly. He slouches soooo much and it makes his back look like trash. On the move, his topline rolls soooooo much compared to the other dogs in the ring. 
I was going to show him at a cluster in January but was told I need to get 3-5 lbs off of him at least because his conditioning is hindering his success. 
I had already entered him tomorrow, so I’ll be showing him tomorrow and then dedicating the next month or two to trying to improve his weight and conditioning 🥲


----------



## Prism Goldens

I'm sorry- it CAN get depressing when the dog doesn't look as good as he does at home, and girl! You go to enormous shows, so it can feel like you're playing Sisyphus...
I did think @ Ocala he needed to drop 2-3 pounds so maybe that advice is good.. but it may not be pounds as much as it is being in hard working condition. Can you swim him? Bike him @ a pace that works for him moving correctly? Look back @ your photos when you first started - he's SOOO much better now. His front is dropping and his coat looks great. It'll happen.


----------



## Tagrenine

It does start to wear you down after awhile and I consider myself a pretty resilient person 😅 but I'm going to keep doing everything I can. Also, yes, I definitely reach soooo high with the shows, I just don't realize sometimes how big they'll be until I see the judging program. Florida is such a competitive state! 

I'm seriously running into conditioning issues here. The treadmill is helping, but I would love to swim him. We have a dog beach but I don't really trust the other dogs there. There is a lake with a dock about an hour south I can rent for 50 dollars an hour and we tried renting pools but it starts to get expensive so fast as 45 dollars an hour. I wish we had safer, dog friendly bodies of water down here. Biking - thought about it but it makes me nervous  I need to buy a bike and booties for him so his paws don't get torn up on the road. I'm not sure what the best pace is to move him at either, which has proven to kind of be an issue with the treadmill when I want to just set one speed and let that go for a bit.

I think he has come so far, he's kind of slow to mature physically and mentally  going to all the shows and watching (and feeling!) all the conditioned, fit dogs has given me a much better idea about what sort of condition I need to get him in if I want him to be competitive.

You're better versed in Greek mythos than I, thankfully Google gave me the answer I needed  It really does feel like an uphill battle and the older he gets, the more pressure I feel.


----------



## Megora

Keep your chin up. He needs more muscling on his back based on the picture above - and that will come with both regular normal exercise and also maturity. He will naturally fill out as an intact dog fed a good diet, etc.

FWIW - I'd been going through a very dry spell with my Jovi and could not figure out why because he is a very nice boy and very typey for what is winning in the ring. A lots of bone and muscle.  I had his dad's breeder watch him at the last show and yeah.... bad handler.

When I gait him, I got into the habit of tightening up on the lead and holding a certain way because it kept him from pulling. The problem with that is it also trained him to gait with his head high up, which opens up his front and the dog apparently gaits like a cow as a result. _sheepish smile_

I'm kinda stung that people did not tell me before this, but eh. We are at the end of the show season and next show isn't until Feb. After holidays my plan is to get with a pro handler I train with from time to time and get her to work with me on adjusting where I'm holding the lead to bring that head back down and forward.

Anyway - my point is it's easy to get really frustrated, but you keep trucking when you have a very nice dog and enough people who believe in him. Them telling you to hold off - it may also be giving him time to grow up a little more and fill out.

By the time they are closer to 3, a lot of these boys are ready to win.


Oh and other fun thing to share.  My younger dog who is 2.5 and really at the brink and ready to get serious.... last show we did, he won his class and had a very strong opportunity to get his first major in Winners. And I mean the judge really seemed to like him. Fast forward a little bit though, I showed his brother and got really winded. Some of it may be a heart issue that I need to get checked out (racing heart issues I've had since getting my covid shot). Or it could have been how hot it was in the building. Regardless, I could not go back out into winners with Glee. I sent him out with a friend who has big movement dogs like him and uh... yeah. He's never been handled by anyone else - including obedience instructors even - and he absolutely refused to gait and refused to stack. Judge was super nice and really seemed to be trying to give him time to settle in and maybe that 5 point major could have been his, but yup. No go. His breeder and I were holding our heads after that - she had come out just to watch and she felt as I did that it was his to win. But his owner failed him.


----------



## Tagrenine

Thank you both…it helps a lot when I’m doubting him to have the support from here. And wow!! It’s amazing how even little things can change how our dogs move out and act. I hope you can figure it out with the pro, I wish we had smaller handling classes here with more one on one advice.
I feel I just need to give Felix more time to mature and work on my own self confidence. I work so much that the dog shows are a way for me to relax but lately I just feel like I’ve failed Felix.


----------



## ArkansasGold

You have not failed him. At the end of the day, he is first and foremost your beloved pet. How he is treated at home and the regular life he lives matter so much more in the long run than how many ribbons he wins.


----------



## Prism Goldens

My gosh, you have not failed him. And it's not like he's old or anything , there is TIME!

Try starting around 4.5 -6 mph and have someone film you from side so you can see he's moving with the side gait you want to see in the ring. Friends with pools? Laps work.


----------



## diane0905

I can't tell you how many times I've had that "failing my dog" feeling and I'm sixty and he just turned two. It must just be a normal way to feel when you're working so hard and have such high hopes. I had a trainer tell me in the not so far past I need to manage my expectations as I have a great dog and he's such a young dog.

I keep thinking we are on the three year plan. I guess if I'm not where I feel I should be by the time he is three, I will melt like the Wicked Witch of the West or something. 😅

I think you are doing great with Felix and I really enjoy following your progress. He's beautiful! It's wonderful how much you're giving him such a fun and well-loved life.


----------



## Tagrenine

Thank you both! I don't have any friends with pools (or friends lol) down here. But I'm going to work hard on trying to bike him. The feeling of a time limit is so pervasive! But when I realize that a lot of the dogs in the open class today were older, some a year or two than Felix, I remembered that I have time!

I'm going to attach the video from today. I thought about scratching today, but I'm glad I didn't. I love showing him and had a lot of fun in the ring. There's not a lot of stress when you know you're going to lose, so you do your best and have fun anyway. On a comedic note, I was wondering if the judge would be able to tell I was an amateur and then I got sandwiched between Amy and Musta. The differences are GLARING LOL. But I could not have been sandwiched between two better people. The video is kind of long and unfortunately, I can't upload it in higher quality. 

I was really happy with how he showed today. I made some amateur errors, but overall it was a really good experience! I love showing him.


----------



## Tagrenine

I got this after our workout today, my boy is so narrow lol. He is approx 28 months old and seems to be quite immature ¿ honestly I have no idea if he is immature or not for his age but he is certainly much more narrow and slab sided than the dogs he’s competing against.
Is this primarily a maturity thing? Since the weather has gotten marginally cooler, I’m hoping to start doing some agility in the backyard again, but I’m wondering if there is anything else I should be doing outside of letting him grow?
He is currently doing 5 miles a day on the treadmill, so an hour on it a day.
Im going to start start adding PPP30/20 to his diet soon as a way to add more protein.

edit: maybe not so much slab sided as he has some rib curvature, but is narrow. He also I feel lacks forechest but I honestly haven’t gotten to run my hands over another Golden’s chest so I have no idea


----------



## Tagrenine

Today was bath day, so we decided to practice some freestacking. I STRONGLY recommend watching this video *without* sound LOL. I really want to teach him to either stick his hind legs and move his fronts forward, or to move backwards when I ask. He likes to stop with his hind legs underneath him. He's been getting a lot better and I know my handling technique is subpar. What steps can I take to do better with him? We're planning to show two weekends in a row at the end of Jan/beginning of Feb and I really want to do the best I can for him. 

One thing I've been trying to remember is to keep my arm in an L shape, and something else is to take bigger steps but not run him. 






Again, recommended without sound 😅


----------



## goldielynn

What's his weight at now? We go through similar ups and downs with regard to body, but Windsor is 14 months and still filling out so in the puppy class, he's still a bit awkward and right now a bit taller than the other puppies, but we're just in the preparation phase for when he's older.


----------



## Tagrenine

goldielynn said:


> What's his weight at now? We go through similar ups and downs with regard to body, but Windsor is 14 months and still filling out so in the puppy class, he's still a bit awkward and right now a bit taller than the other puppies, but we're just in the preparation phase for when he's older.


I haven’t quite weighed him but I think he’s sitting around 67-70


----------



## Tagrenine

We did some stacking and off leash free stacking today. I'm getting better at just regular stacking, but I'm still working on disengaging his hind legs. I really wanted this practice to be fun because sometimes confo is just so boring for him.


----------



## Tagrenine

Today was our Ocala day. I had to sit far away because he kept air sniffing for me. He looks nice, still looks like a run away bull on the lead. One day we’ll get there 🥲


----------



## Prism Goldens

Soooo impressed the hound let him be baited without getting involved himself lol! Will you be there Sunday too?
Or will Felix be there w Aaron? I'll try to pop out to see if it's not miserably cold.


----------



## Tagrenine

I’ll be here all weekend! I packed Colorado style winter clothes LOL


----------



## Megora

Prism Goldens said:


> I'll try to pop out to see if it's not miserably cold.


Robin, I can't resist....


----------



## Prism Goldens

yep.. all my faucets dripping, trying to remember my protocols for hard freezes in Chatt-town...****, my bones are cold today!


----------



## diane0905

He looks beautiful! 

We got a second snow here in Columbia, SC, but only a dusting this time.


----------



## Tagrenine

Felix showed poorly again and his handler sent him back home. I’m kind of at a loss with what to do now because he’s been sent home by two different handlers 🥲 maybe wait another year to see if he calms down instead of forcing him to keep showing when he’s not performing well enough to win.


----------



## Megora

Tagrenine said:


> Felix showed poorly again and his handler sent him back home. I’m kind of at a loss with what to do now because he’s been sent home by two different handlers 🥲 maybe wait another year to see if he calms down instead of forcing him to keep showing when he’s not performing well enough to win.


What exactly is he doing?


----------



## Tagrenine

Megora said:


> What exactly is he doing?


He pulls going around and doesn’t really stop pulling when they correct him. It’s to the point where he’s constantly being corrected and starting to not enjoy showing


----------



## Megora

Tagrenine said:


> He pulls going around and doesn’t really stop pulling when they correct him. It’s to the point where he’s constantly being corrected and starting to not enjoy showing


What happens if you jog him before?

With Bertie I had to do a lot of running prior to going into the ring. It was more important than grooming to jog him around and get him so he could settle down. 

And at home I'd just jog up and down and reward when he smoothed out.


----------



## Tagrenine

It depends on the weather, if it’s cold, nothing stops him, but in the heat it makes manageable. I think it would be better if I handled him until he was better behaved? He really is starting to look miserable now and I feel bad for him, his tail isn’t coming up anymore.


----------



## Prism Goldens

Bike him? I know that'd be difficult @ Ocala, but in an inside show, you could go on park lot outside...


----------



## Tagrenine

I need to start biking him, but I think I’m going to try to show him myself and start some stuff over. I was watching some videos from when I started showing him and he was so happy to be in the ring, I want to get him back to that point. He was supposed to show tomorrow but I didn’t bring any show clothes :’)


----------



## Tagrenine

After spending the last 24 hours trying to decide whether to quit showing him, or just take a break, I reached out to a b/o/h (different breed but still sporting) for advice.
It boils down to the fact that I need to basically “retrain” him from the foundations up. She likened him to a hard mouthed horse who kept getting stronger, so sharper bits were used, and the horse kept getting stronger. She said I need to go back and start teaching the basics again and compared it to training this hard mouthed horse to show in a hackamore.
This, decidedly, will be something only I can do and she thinks if I commit to it and do it right, he will be a dog I can finish myself. But I’ve also come to terms with the fact that he may not finish and that’s okay too.
So for now, I’m going to take a step back and see if I can’t get him to respect the lead more and take it slowly. I was told to start without a lead first and then transition to a Resco.










Here’s a goofy photo of him I got today in my jacket. I do love his dumb self.


----------



## livduse

Tagrenine said:


> After spending the last 24 hours trying to decide whether to quit showing him, or just take a break, I reached out to a b/o/h (different breed but still sporting) for advice.
> It boils down to the fact that I need to basically “retrain” him from the foundations up. She likened him to a hard mouthed horse who kept getting stronger, so sharper bits were used, and the horse kept getting stronger. She said I need to go back and start teaching the basics again and compared it to training this hard mouthed horse to show in a hackamore.
> This, decidedly, will be something only I can do and she thinks if I commit to it and do it right, he will be a dog I can finish myself. But I’ve also come to terms with the fact that he may not finish and that’s okay too.
> So for now, I’m going to take a step back and see if I can’t get him to respect the lead more and take it slowly. I was told to start without a lead first and then transition to a Resco.
> 
> View attachment 889170
> 
> 
> Here’s a goofy photo of him I got today in my jacket. I do love his dumb self.


He is such a nice boy and I'm sure with some hard work he will reach his full potential. It sounds like you have a good plan in place. I've been struggling with Ben too for opposite reasons lol. We've only been to three shows, but he loses his pep when we step into the ring. He LOVES being at shows but hasn't really gotten into the showing yet. It is almost like I have to drag him along, and to make things worse, I just found out he has a partial ACL tear... ugh! You're doing a great job with him though, don't get discouraged!


----------



## Megora

livduse said:


> He is such a nice boy and I'm sure with some hard work he will reach his full potential. It sounds like you have a good plan in place. I've been struggling with Ben too for opposite reasons lol. We've only been to three shows, but he loses his pep when we step into the ring. He LOVES being at shows but hasn't really gotten into the showing yet. It is almost like I have to drag him along, and to make things worse, I just found out he has a partial ACL tear... ugh! You're doing a great job with him though, don't get discouraged!


Is this the newfie? Or golden?


----------



## livduse

Megora said:


> Is this the newfie? Or golden?


The Newfie, luckily the vet thinks the tear is minor enough that he can form enough scar tissue to heal on his own, but it’s definitely a setback.


----------



## Megora

livduse said:


> The Newfie, luckily the vet thinks the tear is minor enough that he can form enough scar tissue to heal on his own, but it’s definitely a setback.


Stinks.  

I'm guessing it's a giant breed issue? Was curious because I've always heard that ACL's are very rare for intact dogs (unless they are agility dogs or doing something like flyball, etc).


----------



## Tagrenine

There is some relationship between ACL tears and angulation in the rear. Chows come to mind first


----------



## livduse

Megora said:


> Stinks.
> 
> I'm guessing it's a giant breed issue? Was curious because I've always heard that ACL's are very rare for intact dogs (unless they are agility dogs or doing something like flyball, etc).


It’s more common in giant breeds, but it was just a freak accident. He has nice rear angulation, so I’m assuming that wasn’t the issue. He was running on uneven ground in the backcountry and I guess we just got unlucky. He’s on an anti-inflammatory for now and you honestly can’t even tell he’s injured, I just have to keep him resting for a while.


----------



## Tagrenine

Im getting ready to leave the country for a couple of weeks and I wanted to clean Felix up so my partner didn’t have to deal with a smelly dog so I took the opportunity to get some photos/videos. He stacks at an angle when I’m at his side, but unfortunately the one where he’s stacked the best is dark LOL so I posted both

We are on the fence about neutering him within the next year or so because of all the girls we have around us. It’s not set in stone but on the table.

Edit: one of my friends edited the dark photo to make it lighter, so I replaced the original, in case the original post doesn’t make sense lol


----------



## Tagrenine

The nice thing about living northeast is now, outside of swimming, we live so much closer to our friends lol. @Emmdenn groomed Felix for me. We tried to get stacked shots but he wasn’t feeling cooperative 😂


----------



## Emmdenn

He was such a good boy! I'm so glad you're close by now -- I think Addie is too ❤. He looks lovely.


----------

