# Take it and Hold it advice



## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Molly understands "take it" or "get/bring it" whether the item is in my hand or on the ground. I use "fetch" only in field training. "take it" means to take it and hold it until I say so. 

I use "hold" if she's rolling the item in her mouth. I say "no, hold".


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## Burd (Aug 11, 2011)

I'm glad you asked this, because I'm curious too.


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## tine434 (Nov 24, 2013)

I want to read answers also

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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

You're going to get a lot of different opinions. 

I learned take it and hold as 2 different things. We learned hold first. We used the Connie Cleveland method which she shows in her video tapes. The object was an obedience dumb bell. Lucy had to open her mouth and hold it when it was presented to her. She had to hold it as long as she was asked, but that was only done over time. There was no reward other than verbal praise. We did use the ear pinch method to get Lucy to open her mouth and hold the dumb bell.

After hold was understood, we moved to take it. She was told to take it while the dumb bell was held out a short distance of an inch from her muzzle. Again no reward only verbal praise and ear pinch to get complicity. Take distances are increased gradually over time.

End each session with 3 positive exchanges, don't end with a non-compliant exchange. Do not get upset, do not be violent to the dog. It's a long long process when done right. Always use lots of verbal praise when they complete the request. Say nothing when they don't.

My suggestion is an obedience dumb bell. They don't see it as a toy and they didn't pick it, you picked it. Yes they will pick up a cup or other object. But the dumb bell has no meaning to them, so it's a great non-toy to use.

Basically forced fetch is the hardest thing I've ever learned. You will need it whether your dog is only competing in obedience, is becoming a service dog, or going into fieldwork. I do suggest Connie Cleveland, her method seems the gentlest but take the longest. There are many people out there showing forced fetch methods, some you will be comfortable with and some methods you will not.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

I want to add that in the beginning, I did teach take it and hold as two different things, until she understood that "take it" means to also "hold". I gently helped her keep her mouth closed on the object after she takes it and then I say "hold, good hold". After a few seconds I tell her "okay give" and I build duration over time. It does not take long for them to understand. I started with an obedience dumbbell. I personally did not use force fetch for obedience. Molly did not need it. But I did force fetch later on for field. 


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Lucky you that Molly would pick up the dumb bell without forced fetch. My Lucy was a pistol, if she didn't want to do it, she just plain wouldn't. I hated the ear pinch method, but there was no other way. I want to be clear though, there was no pain involved for Lucy, only discomfort of not being able to do what she wanted. She is a total bird dog and had no use for bumpers or anything like one. Hence the forced fetch, which in her case even if we were only doing obedience work dumb bell training, she would have still had to go through forced fetch. Every dog is different. My boy Reilly is super happy to do anything for you, I would never imagine doing forced fetch with him. All dogs are different.


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## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

I used this method for my fetch/retrieve training: I think you mind find it informative and helpful . 

Keepers - Shirley's Retieve

We are slowly building up our hold - without using the command. We started our retrieve training with hold, but Oliver had a very negative reaction to it and it completely ruined retrieving for him so we had to start over from a different angle. We didn't use an ear pinch or toe hitch. We just put the dumbell in their mouth and said hold. They were praised for holding it calmly and if they tried to spit it out our hand was right there to reclose their mouth and repeat "hold". However, like I said, Oliver reacted very poorly to this. Bernie handled it fine. 

So right now we are just incorporating the hold into our retrieve training so that its part of the "fetch" command. If they drop the dumbell or bumper they do not get rewarded. Since we're in the very early stages of training I have to be careful not to move too quickly with them. I have found that if I increase the distance too much they start to get sloppy with the dumbell (aka drop it). They do know that if they drop it they have to immediately pick it back up, so the concept is clicking and we've built up a good amount of distance. 

We started with having the bumper on the floor and having them pick it up and put it in our hand. If they dropped it on the way to our hand - no treat. They picked up on the idea that they shouldn't drop it pretty quickly. This was after they already had a clear understanding of what "Fetch" meant - pick up and put in my hand. A big part of them learning "hold" was the part of the training where we'd tell them to "Fetch" and then put our hands behind our back. The dogs do one of two things, stop and look at you while holding the dumbell - or drop the dumbell. If they stop and look at you PRAISE PRAISE PRAISE! This was an integral part of them learning hold. Then we started adding distractions, distance, duration (and difficulty). I'd test their holding ability by asking them to sit while holding, down while holding, heel while holding. It wasn't easy for them to do thats for sure! You could see their little brains working "how do I put my butt down AND keep this thing in my mouth at the same time?!". 

I hope some of this helps, if you want any more details of my training let me know! It sounds like I'm about one step ahead of where you are with your retrieve training so if there's anything I can explain that I did if you need new ideas feel free to ask :wave:


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

This is part one of a bird dog retrieve by Donna Hill. She teaches a take it and a hold in this video. When teaching each step make sure the dog understands that step before moving forward. The video goes through the steps pretty fast. I would also be more selective on how the pup is holding the object. Sometimes she is rewarding for a sloppy hold. If you don't want your dog to do a sloppy hold then don't reward it.


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## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

Vhuynh2 said:


> I want to add that in the beginning, I did teach take it and hold as two different things, until she understood that "take it" means to also "hold". I gently helped her keep her mouth closed on the object after she takes it and then I say "hold, good hold". After a few seconds I tell her "okay give" and I build duration over time. It does not take long for them to understand. I started with an obedience dumbbell. I personally did not use force fetch for obedience. Molly did not need it. But I did force fetch later on for field.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


This is the method my field trainer uses and it worked really well for Bernie. For some reason it made Oliver completely shut down and develop a dislike for retrieving :uhoh:. So we had to go at it from a different angle with him. Its nice that there are so many different training methods - FF, the method you described, "Shirleys Retrieve" (link I posted).


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I'm uploading a video that kinda shows the steps.... 

Just watch the first portion - I did it with Bertie who is not the most enthusiastic retriever out there. 

Step One: Encouraging the voluntary reach/take. <= I do, for the most part like to jump ahead, since these dogs are rarely going to be taking stuff from hand anyway. I do this only to teach the dogs to take the dumbbells properly (between the bells) and understand what "Take it" and "hold" means. If the retrieves gets kinda messed up with the dogs grabbing the bells first or tossing the dumbbells around as they retrieve them - then it's time to revisit the very first couple steps which is Take and Hold. 

Generally you want the dogs reaching for the dumbbell before you introduce the word and ask for a hold. 

Step Two: Giving the exercise a command (good take it) and asking for hold. And then asking for give before the dog moves his mouth. The greener the dog, the shorter the hold.

Step Three: Placed dumbbells. This reinforced the pick up and hold. 

Step Four: The actual retrieve on flat. 

Step Five: would be retrieving while jumping. But Bertie's not there yet. LOL<:

The rest of the video is beginning articles with Bertie - which is the same concepts of the initial dumbbell training, but with the scent discrimination part added. Bertie is just doing baby articles (just easy leathers - and minimum choices). 

I added Jacks in there to show the difference between the very green pup and Jacks who has been doing this for a year or so.


http://youtu.be/ELTK-SGhu08

Once the dogs understand the above concepts, you can pretty much train them to go pick up anything around the house. The dogs know the words for different things (bones, toys, green ball, etc) and follow direction very well - a lot of it is foundation training and "captured" (meaning I caught the dogs picking something up and bringing it to me, or carrying something in the house, etc) behaviors.


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## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

Megora said:


> I'm uploading a video that kinda shows the steps....
> 
> Just watch the first portion - I did it with Bertie who is not the most enthusiastic retriever out there.
> 
> ...


Kate, did you do any prior scent training with Bertie for what you practiced with "find it" in the video? Or did he pick up on it right away that he was supposed to pick up the object that smelled like you? 

Thank your for the awesome video!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I did one other session with him. This was the first time I bumped up to more than 2 articles though.

I use lotion on my hands before doing this exercise. That helps them zero in on a scent. People also use peanut butter and cheese goo.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

These are all great links and videos. See what works best for your dog. What is so wonderful is that we are exposed to so many different training methods. Whoever's method you use, check out the trainer and see what kind of obedience titles, field, hunt, rally etc. they have as a way to show that their methods work. 

I do put my Lucy in a different category than most dogs. She absolutely would not take a bumper or dumb bell without force. I've never had a dog that only wanted birds, nothing else. I train with her sister, and she is the same way, must have been the breeding.


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## JayBen (Aug 30, 2012)

Thanks for all the great replies, I just checked back in on this thread now. I will check out the videos and links when I get home from work.


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