# Curious about golden marengere



## KeaColorado (Jan 2, 2013)

Hmmm. The website doesn't give much information. From the looks of it, this guy isn't doing much but "farming" golden retrievers. There are no registered names of dogs listed, so that makes it hard to search for health clearances. I'd keep looking


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## Eowyn (Aug 29, 2013)

I would pass. He seems to have a big operation and doesn't want to tell you anything about his dogs. Also no mention of OFA or any health clearances…


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

It's definitely an agricultural operation. Dogs can be livestock if you look at it that way. Is his name a play on words?


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## JessCDoyle (May 21, 2013)

Alaska7133 said:


> It's definitely an agricultural operation. Dogs can be livestock if you look at it that way. Is his name a play on words?



That's EXACTLY what I was thinking.

To be clear this is just an inquiry out of my own curiosity after meeting this girl. I would never consider this place to be where my future pup will come from. Luckily I know well enough thanks to this site along with information from many others to have an understanding of what it means to be a reputable breeder and what I should look for. Heather from Arcane has actually be extremely helpful and I would say the front runner as of right now with the research I have done but I'm still keeping options open (and hopefully she won't be offended by that! I'm always extremely worried about hurting someone's feelings especially when they're such a good person)

I was just wondering as there is no information on the site, no dogs mentioned/no k9data information if anyone has had personal experience with them.. also mostly so this would hopefully come up in google searches alongside the kiji listing he has...


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## s20Merlin (Jan 23, 2014)

Hey,

I was looking into a golden retriever last year and I went to visit the farm. 

I found the dogs to in pretty decent living conditions. He took the time to show me around the farm showing me the main areas. The dogs get plenty of room to play outside (and they were when I visited, i just dropped by, not by appointment).

The dogs had great characters and the adults were just absolutely beautiful.

I would buy from them if I was still looking for a puppy.


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## Dancer (Apr 5, 2010)

s20Merlin said:


> Hey,
> 
> I was looking into a golden retriever last year and I went to visit the farm.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the forum! I see that you just joined today and this is your first post! I apologize if this is not the case, but it always makes me a little suspicious when a brand new member joins and their very first post, right out the gate, is to speak glowing praise a breeder who is being discussed- particularly if that breeder has been found to be a bit lacking. For me its very simple: no clearances? Not the kind of breeder I'd consider for my next puppy. Breeder's dogs don't compete and stack up favourably against other representatives of the breed? I'm not interested in their pups.

I appreciate you had what you'd classify as a "good" experience when you visited this breeder (assuming you truly aren't this breeder, pretending to be a potential puppy buyer to steer ppl to your "farm"), but that's not enough. I look forward to seeing your future posts, and encourage you to look around on here. You will quickly see the importance of clearances and the essential role that responsible breeding plays in the lives of this breed and the people who love them. The health and longevity of this breed is of paramount importance. As a breeder, you're part of the problem or you're part of the solution.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## s20Merlin (Jan 23, 2014)

Of course I understand where you are coming from. I happened to fall on this thread when I was "googling" and figured i'd throw in my personal experience.

Cheers


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## JessCDoyle (May 21, 2013)

s20Merlin said:


> Of course I understand where you are coming from. I happened to fall on this thread when I was "googling" and figured i'd throw in my personal experience.
> 
> Cheers


It's great that you had a good personal experience while visiting. However, I've also had acquaintances who have had wonderful experiences while visiting a puppy mill (legitimately, which was taken down by authorities some time ago. It was in Quebec - Quebec Puppy Mill). People who have no business to be breeding already know this, and can be extremely good at lying and manipulation. They're SELLING their dogs for profit, not placing them in homes they believe will be the best fit forever.

It is never a dog's fault for being bred into the world by a non-reputable breeder. However, by giving money going straight to a breeder's pocket, you're allowing the problem to continue if s/he is not responsible and reputable and breeding to better the breed. 

If this post came up while googling, that truly makes me happy. I believe that in this day and age it's very hard to cry ignorance and hopefully this post will educate people on what to look for in a breeder and in a pup. Responsibility, reputation, guarantees and clearances with data going back a few generations. For me, I also like to see a breeder be active with their dogs, whether it's Field, confirmation, obedience etc. This "farm" seems far from offering any of those. Maybe I'm completely wrong about it, however my instincts are telling me otherwise until I can see evidence. I hope anyone who goes to check it out will have the information they need to put the screws to them and be able to properly evaluate their answers.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

JessCDoyle said:


> That's EXACTLY what I was thinking.
> 
> 
> Heather from Arcane has actually be extremely helpful and I would say the front runner as of right now with the research I have done but I'm still keeping options open (and hopefully she won't be offended by that! I'm always extremely worried about hurting someone's feelings especially when they're such a good person)
> ...


I would never be offended if someone opted to get a puppy from another *reputable* breeder. If I have helped in any way to guide a family  that is what it is really all about ... I am always happy to refer to quality litters and breeders! 

ROOOOOOO!!!


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## TMac2000 (Sep 29, 2014)

*Golden Retriever Farm*

Hi, we have one of their goldens. We actually adopted him from the Humane Society as a 10 month old rescue, but the original owners had given his breeder info to the Humane Society so we did check them out after the fact. 

We brought our dog with us and kept him in the car while the breeder gave us a tour. The facility was very clean and the dogs looked healthy. However, I'm not so sure they are breeding for good temperment. We asked if our dog could 'meet' any of his and he said no and that the breeding mom (i.e, his mother) would be aggressive to him. 

Fast forward a few months later and our adolescent retriever became fear aggressive himself (from day one he was afraid of many noises or objects -e.g bbq). Not sure if that was due to poor socialization from his first family or because of poor temperment inherent in his genes. Despite all of the training and behaviourists we had him with, he is still not solid with other dogs. He is almost 11 now and we love him dearly despite his dog - dog aggression. He's wonderful with people of all ages and sizes. 

All to say, while we love our dog, I would not recommend getting one from this breeder. Instinct told me that being 'home-raised' probably would have helped rather than 'barn raised'.

Just my 2 cents!

Also - just saw his poor rating on Better Business Bureau: http://www.bbb.org/ottawa/business-reviews/dog-breeders/golden-retriever-farm-in-hammond-on-31375


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## cokelon (Mar 2, 2015)

Hi everyone, 

I purchased a dog from this breeder last year, nothing but good dealings with him. He is a little protective of his puppies as he is scared they might get sick before they leave to their forever homes. 

we kept coming back every weekend until it was pickup day, 4 mths later we went back to him for the microchip to be placed on the pup. So far no illnesses with our pup he is super healthy and happy male. 

I've got all of my paperwork for my pup and happy with him. If anyone wants to see some pics of my dog by all means just ask. And if there are any other questions regarding the breeder that I could help with (mind you i'm only talking regarding the experience I had)

cheers


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## Coopsmom (Jan 13, 2015)

Way too many red flags for me!


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## Dancer (Apr 5, 2010)

@Cokelon; I don't feel I can put it better than I did in this post below, particularly since you seem so very similar to the person I responded to with this. Similar enough that I nearly suspect you could even be that poster, (who I believe was likely the breeder in question). If that's the case I certainly don't expect you to just come clean here, BUT if you are the breeder in question please consider this: if your breeding practices are all in keeping with doing what is best for the dogs and trying to improve the breed than you would be proud to admit yourself to be the breeder of these animals. If you can't be proud of your work, than you aren't doing your best to do a good job. 



Dancer said:


> Welcome to the forum! I see that you just joined today and this is your first post! I apologize if this is not the case, but it always makes me a little suspicious when a brand new member joins and their very first post, right out the gate, is to speak glowing praise a breeder who is being discussed- particularly if that breeder has been found to be a bit lacking. For me its very simple: no clearances? Not the kind of breeder I'd consider for my next puppy. Breeder's dogs don't compete and stack up favourably against other representatives of the breed? I'm not interested in their pups.
> 
> I appreciate you had what you'd classify as a "good" experience when you visited this breeder (assuming you truly aren't this breeder, pretending to be a potential puppy buyer to steer ppl to your "farm"), but that's not enough. I look forward to seeing your future posts, and encourage you to look around on here. You will quickly see the importance of clearances and the essential role that responsible breeding plays in the lives of this breed and the people who love them. The health and longevity of this breed is of paramount importance. As a breeder, you're part of the problem or you're part of the solution.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## rhoda45 (Mar 5, 2015)

*Hello*

I'm just wondering how you go about checking to see if a golden retriever breeder is actually registered and in good standings or not, along with his/her dogs?? I can't seem to find that area in the CKC website... 

We just purchased a beautiful golden retriever pup from this breeder in question and I'd like to check this out. The farm does indeed look good, and is very clean when we were there. The puppies all looked in great health, very playful, and the adult dogs looked to be well taken care of. The only complaint I would have is the owner was very disorganized and other breeders that I had contacted sent to us a form to fill out telling them about us and why we would choose a golden and he did not have this at all. We called, went to look at the farm and the puppies, told him we would like to purchase one and we filled out an invoice of sorts, gave our deposit and received our pup 3 days later. (after vet check and needles) He also says on his website that he does the microchip however that is not accurate, he gives you the microchip and you have to take it to your vet to insert, if your vet will do it, as they have their own that they do. 

His puppies are almost $600 less then the other breeders that we contacted. I thought maybe this was because he is a small country breeder, but I would like to see how I can check the CKC. He said all his dogs are registered and he registers his pups, and we received a certificate for both the mother and father of the pup when we left. 

Can someone direct me to where I should look for this?

Thanking you in advance... 

By the way - we are loving our baby... she is so smart and beautiful and has been very easy to train so far... 

Regards


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I'd be finding a new vet if my vet wouldn't put my own chip in!
That aside, I don't believe there is any way to verify someone's standing with CKC. You could make leaps of guessing by checking to see if they are member of a breed club- GRCC or GRCA- most breeders are proud to state that.
And you can check on OFFA.org to see if the parents have clearances, and many other things as well, if the animal is on ofa's site - you can see their offsprings' clearance history as well as their parents, grandparents.


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## cokelon (Mar 2, 2015)

Dancer said:


> @Cokelon; I don't feel I can put it better than I did in this post below, particularly since you seem so very similar to the person I responded to with this. Similar enough that I nearly suspect you could even be that poster, (who I believe was likely the breeder in question). If that's the case I certainly don't expect you to just come clean here, BUT if you are the breeder in question please consider this: if your breeding practices are all in keeping with doing what is best for the dogs and trying to improve the breed than you would be proud to admit yourself to be the breeder of these animals. If you can't be proud of your work, than you aren't doing your best to do a good job.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



@Dancer I don't know what would you like me to come clean with. I recently joined this forum because my dog sheds like crazy we vacuum every day so I was looking for information and came across this post. I am not the breeder nor have any direct connections to him other than I have one of his pupps. Just sharing my experience hoping to help someone that might be looking for a golden retriever, I live in Orleans (Avalon) and I wouldn't mind meeting people in the are to show them my beautiful healthy well behaved golden retriever. 

Cheers


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## SunnynSey (Jan 17, 2015)

This is not a reputable breeder, this obviously is just a business to this man and nothing more, and any precautions he takes with his puppies is likely because if they get sick then he can't sell them and has to spend money for treatment versus genuine concern. Would definitely pass on this puppy farmer.


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## Louis.Guertin (May 13, 2015)

I'm new here but I do have a Golden from this kennel. I got Arwen in 2011. She is a dream come true. She's everything that a Golden should be: playful, boundless energy, and clever to boot with a great sense of humour. She is typical of the dogs that Ray breeds. There have been no abnormal or excessive health problems. There is only one problem she takes from her Sire and her Dame: she's bloody huge! I don't mean fat, she's perfectly proportioned to her 100lbs. So, I can only speak from my experience, but Arwen has to be the greatest dog to ever adopt me. 
Hope this helps.


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## PhatPuppy (Oct 19, 2015)

Hello everyone,

I came across this post months ago when searching google for reviews on "The Golden Retriever Farm" run by Ray Marengere. Even though there were some bad comments and reviews made on this forum, I still decided to take a look for myself since it was not too far from where I live. The thing I noticed on this forum is that most of the negative feedback and comments come from users who had zero personal experiences and I found lots of assumptions were made on this forum without any real facts...

My purpose in posting this is to share my first hand experiences with anyone interested. I have been to Rays farm a total of 6 times so far and all visits were unannounced. In fact, Ray does not see anyone by appointment...he has "drop-in" hours Sat-Sun, 12pm-5pm respectively and everyone and anyone is welcome.

My search started in August after my family and I made the hard decision to put down our beloved golden called Taz after 14 beautiful years of joy with him. Taz was suffering greatly from two worn down hips and was no longer able to walk without discomfort.

I found Ray's website (www.*goldenretrieverfarm*.com) through a google search and took a trip down to his home to visit him unannounced. 

First visit:
When I arrived I noticed the barn from which he operated looked old and a little run down and this was my first impression. Once inside, I was greated very kindly and welcomed by Ray and I quicky noticed the inside was quite clean, confortably warm and well lit and the air did not smell bad. The dog pens were clean. There were big bowls of fresh clean water in each pen for the dogs and pups and the floors of the dog pens were covered in clean straw. His setup looked organized and was clean. Some of the walls in his facilities are plastered with pictures of smiling families with their new pup(s) and thank you cards and drawings...it gave me a good feeling! Although Ray was busy catering to the many dogs he has, he took time to ask if we had any questions in between comming and going. There were also many other guests looking and walking about the facilities. My kids had a blast visiting all the dogs and Ray was especially kind to them. All the dogs were well tempered and very social. Upon leaving were invited to come back anytime...

Seccond visit:
So we did. We came back unannounced the following Sunday with the kids again and this time Ray was busy feeding the pups and replacing the straw bedding in some of the pens. Again he took the time to greet us and let us know to ask any questions we might have had. He even let the kids pet some of the older puppies from one of the pens. At this point we started to enquire about the process to get a puppy. To my surprise I learned that the current 3 litters he had were all spoken for (between 20-24 pups) and that we would need to be put on a waiting list for the next available litter. This guy was busy I thought... We said we would think about it and come back.


Third visist:
We came back a thrid time (always unannounced) and since we showed an interest in getting the next litter, Ray took some extra time to introduced us to the potential mother and father. Today the adult goldens were outside playing when we visited. We learned that all the dogs get regular outside time in rotations. He also had us meet a 1 year old golden from the same mother and father to get an idea of the offspring. It was a blast and the mother and father were simply adorable. We got to play with the mother and father outside the pens and spend some time with them while Ray got more chores done. It was a very relaxing experience and I never felt pressured into any decisions. Ray simply provided options and choices and let me make my own. We also met other potential candidates in case we wanted to wait longer and go with anthor mother and father (however we fell in love with Dusty the father and Rosy the mother). Although the kids were allowed to pet some of the puppies Ray was also very cautious and adiment not to pick up or handle any of the puppies. It showed this man really cared for the well being of each pup.

Fourth visit:
Again Ray greated us with a warm smile and always made it a point to greet the children too. He let kids feed some treats to the adult goldens. Visiting the pups with the kids has now become a small ritual for our Sunday afternoons. We decided to put a down payment on a male puppy. Ray took the time again to let us get acquainted with the parents of our future pup. The barn was clean as usualy, clean water, ample amounts of food and clean straw in the pens...very impressed at this point. We are always invited to come back upon leaving.

Fifth visit:
On this visit I had a long talk with a couple who have bought two goldens through Ray in the last 20 years. It's nice to know that Ray has been keeping customers around for this long. By now Ray let's us wander around both inside and outside and we don't have any more questions for him. He's happy to let the kids pet the pups and give attention to the adults as well. His system is really a win/win for the dogs as they get attention and love from visitors while Ray is getting work done on the weekends. We decided to see if we could put a reservation on a seccond pup.

Sixth visit:
I got a call from Ray saying there was a last minute cancellation on the last litter and that one puppy was available. I met Ray Sunday morning to pick up the puppy. My wife and kids were ecstatic. Ray took two hours to go over all the paperwork with me and everything advertised on his website was honoured, EVERYTHING!. The puppy was very healthy, had all necessary paperwork and treatments. I also got paperwork on the parents as well. Ray went through other information with me such as feeding, general care and all kinds of little tips and tricks to train the pup. I really appreciated that even though I had a golden for 14 years, I still learned some things from Ray. Ray was also happy to take a picture with us and share in the happiness my kids and wife were experiencing.

I'm happy to announce Charlie is now a member of our family. The experience with the breeder was wonderfull from start to finish. We still have a reservation on a seccond pup which will be ready end of January-begining Feb 2016 (the one we originally reserved) and we're still going to continue to visit Ray any Sunday that we can.


To reitterate:

-Breeder is very knowledgable, loving, kind and has well over 20 years experience and it shows.
-Facilites and pens were consistently clean
-Dogs were well fed and plenty of fresh water
-Straw bedding was regularly changed
-Tempuratures were consistently confortable
-Breeder is very open and allows you to inspect his premissis at your leisure
-Dogs looked healthy, happy and were all very social and nice
-Breeder is happy to answer any questions
-Very relaxed atmosphere and I never felt pressured or missguided.

It's obvious when visiting and talking with Ray that his dogs are well maintained, loved and cared for. While his pens are not modern as some comments were made and located inside a barn, the animals in his care get all the proper love attention and support they need to get the best start ever for their new owners...

5 STAR breeder and I personally highly reccomend him.


P.S I've attached a picture of our new family with Ray (holding Charlie). And a few of Charlie 

I hope someone finds this informative and I encourage anyone interested to simply go down and visit Ray and find out for themselves!


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Not keeping his dogs in filthy cages doesn't equate to being a reputable breeder. Please post the registered names of the parents and we can see if this breeder is performing all recommended health clearances. Can you tell me how he evaluates the puppies for which home they should go to? How can you judge his breeding practices if you have no idea what to look for.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I can appreciate where you are coming from, Phatpuppy, but the reality is, most people who come here asking for help in choosing a reputable breeder- or even knowing what one is- are not on the page you are coming from. They want a breeder who does not see Golden Retrievers as livestock, who does everything he can to prevent future health issues, and who knows his breeding animals as household partners. The typical person who reads these posts is looking for a bit more than someone they are free to drop in on with no notice. They want the best they can afford and they are intelligent enough to know things are often not as they appear at first glance. So they research. When the areas researched are not in their own realm of knowledge, they reach out for help to the folks here who know how to get info even when very little is provided. So, no matter how appealing it is to you personally that you are able to drop in and therefore feel safe in a puppy from a puppy farm that isn't what most discerning buyers are looking for...they want a well-bred puppy whose start is at the safest starting place they can find. 
Because someone has been doing something for 20 years does not imply they are doing it well or ever have been. The fact that the animals on his farm live on straw speaks volumes. Maybe a different breed would be suited to that life, but a Golden? Never. 
So, because I know you are satisfied and would like to feel no doubt in your mind that you are right, post your puppy's sire and dam info and let someone here show you that either the 'right stuff' is there or is not. It's not the puppy's fault if it is not. I hope that it is for your and his sake.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Gotta ask- that's Ray holding the puppy?


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

It sounds like a well run business. But, breeding should be more than a business. 

The fact that he is willing to place two puppies at the same time or less than 12 months in age apart is not a practice good breeders (who are not looking to make their living off the reproductive organs of their animals) are willing to subject their puppies or buyer to. 

If you have not already, please read up on the issues two young puppies present. Here is an example of the types of articles a simple google search will pull up for you Littermate Syndrome | Modern Dog magazine
Another downside few realize at the time they get them, is that 2 puppies will eventually equal two geriatric dogs at the same time. 

Thank you for sharing your personal experiance that this commercial profit kennel is at the very least clean. As others have said, I hope that your puppy has the benefit of the minimum health testing that goes in to good breeding. I can't say I am confident as most profit driven breeders are not likely to spend on things that impact the bottom line which is why barns, straw and livestock treatment are a standard operational model in comercial kennels.


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## BlazenGR (Jan 12, 2012)

Since when does Purina "sponsor" breeders?? Oh wait. They don't.

"Ray is sponsored by Purina ProPlan®."


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I imagined when I saw that that he was a Pro-Plan member... 
since you are right, they do not sponsor anyone... which makes one of the very few pieces of information on his site a lie. Think I will let PPP know that they are now sponsoring breeders.

It has not escaped notice that this happy customer has not bothered to supply the names of his pup's parents. I would guess that he was either Ray himself or never got papers so doesn't know the names of his pup's parents (having read the complaints about not getting papers on BBB).


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## PhatPuppy (Oct 19, 2015)

Prism Goldens said:


> I imagined when I saw that that he was It has not escaped notice that this happy customer has not bothered to supply the names of his pup's parents. QUOTE]
> 
> Just because I have better things to do then to debate with people who have clearly already made up their minds does not make what I stated untrue. Furthermore, I made my post to share information and let people make up their own minds not to argue or win points in Rays favor or yours. I'm not sure why I have to prove or submit anything to you and I won't lose any sleep over your rude attitude...but when I get a chance today I'll be happy to submit the documentation on the parents that were given to me when I got the puppy for anyone else interested. I got all documentation, health treatments for his first 2 months as well documentation on the parents last vet assessment.
> 
> ...


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## PhatPuppy (Oct 19, 2015)

Prism Goldens said:


> I would guess that he was either Ray himself or never got papers so doesn't know the names of his pup's parents (having read the complaints about not getting papers on BBB).


I am not Ray (you have accused two people now sharing a positive experience with Ray to be Ray himself) and if the picture of my family and I as well as Ray is not enough to satisfy you then there is no point in trying to get through to you. Do you honestly think a Canadian breeder from Hammon Ontario really cares about some internet nobody like you? Do you honestly think that a 65+ year old man has time to come on this site to win you over and pose as other people? Get over yourself...seriously...

Shall I take a turn at making guesses and assumptions about the type of person you are without knowing you or anything about you? Cause based on your posts you sounds like a bad person who hates on anyone who disagrees with you...but you probably aren't...then again....


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## PhatPuppy (Oct 19, 2015)

Here's the papers I received from Ray on my pups parents. Feel free to continue your flaming war...as no doubt you will still not be satisfied with this...


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

PhatPuppy said:


> Do you honestly think a Canadian breeder from Hammon Ontario really cares about some internet nobody like you? Do you honestly think that a 65+ year old man has time to come on this site to win you over and pose as other people? Get over yourself...seriously...
> 
> Shall I take a turn at making guesses and assumptions about the type of person you are without knowing you or anything about you? Cause based on your posts you sounds like a bad person who hates on anyone who disagrees with you...but you probably aren't...then again....


I can't resist pointing this out, but the golden retriever world (meaning people who are truly involved with the breed and do a lot of stuff WITHIN the breed) - is a very small world. At least where it concerns people who are active in the breed. 

So people like Robin of Prism Goldens are well known to other golden retriever people - not just because she's a committee chair with GRCA. 

Somebody who is off on their own and just focuses on breeding and selling dogs is the one who probably is really cut off. 

As far as people posting bad stuff about the breeder you purchased a puppy from - it's never fun, but understand it isn't personal or all about people trying to be mean. 

This breed has a lot of people who are very defensive of the breed and don't want these dogs treated like livestock and/or they do not want to promote this way of doing business. 

That's one issue... which a lot of people find ways of working around. Gosh knows there's a lot of breeders who keep dogs in kennels and make full use of "dog yards".  

Other real significant issue is somebody just breeding dogs without any particular purpose or evaluation done. So health and breed standards are going to slip.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

(Quote)Just because I have better things to do then to debate with people who have clearly already made up their minds does not make what I stated untrue. Furthermore, I made my post to share information and let people make up their own minds not to argue or win points in Rays favor or yours. I'm not sure why I have to prove or submit anything to you and I won't lose any sleep over your rude attitude...but when I get a chance today I'll be happy to submit the documentation on the parents that were given to me when I got the puppy for anyone else interested. I got all documentation, health treatments for his first 2 months as well documentation on the parents last vet assessment.

Please note I never claimed (nor has anyone in this thread) that Ray is some high class blue ribbon "show dog" breeder. What I do want to convey is that in my experience, Rays dogs are very well cared for, loved and treated well. I could really care less if you don't agree with any of his methods or if you find his standards sub-par compared to your liking and I certainly won't lose any sleep over that either. For the average person who simply wants a companion and to provide a loving home for his Golden, I find nothing wrong with what Ray is offering. 

I thought this site was an information site on Golden Retrievers in general but if it is limited to simply support "show dog" and blue ribbon breeders, then I have wasted my time in contributing to this site.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for posting your puppy's parents names. I checked- there are no clearances, so whatever he says...this litter's parents don't have hip, elbow, cardiac or eye clearances. And that brings me to the points of this post. I'm sorry for offending you- lots of breeders realize they are topic of conversation here and DO come on and post. You'd be surprised. The reason they do this is not because they care about me, or anyone else here- it's because these conversations cut into their sales. So that suspicion was not out of line. I did not accuse someone of being him twice, however. I have only twice EVER found a need to suggest that. In any threads. 
I do find something wrong with what Ray is offering. It has nothing at all to do with show dogs, or blue ribbon breeders. It has to do with the health of the produce and the heartbreak this sort of breeder will produce that could be avoided. Breeding itself has heartbreak in the best of cases, when the breeder has done every possible thing to avoid issues. When a breeder such as Ray does nothing to avoid issues, it hurts the breed, it hurts the people who buy the puppies and it hurts the puppies. And no matter to me where the breeder who uses this farm method comes from, Goldens are not farm animals and I will always support the people who have already purchased a puppy but will also always try to discourage someone who's on the fence because there is no reason to make puppies that are less than as healthy as they can possibly be. 
I don't believe I was rude, I do believe I was stating what I know to be true and I also believe you are invested in Ray's breeding style because you bought from him. You have to realize, you are NOT an expert in Golden Retrievers, so you are coming from a different place than I am. I may also not be an expert, but I know an awful lot about Goldens. Every day of my life is devoted to this breed in some way. What appears to be a good old boy great place to buy a puppy really is not. It's a farm. The dogs are on straw. I'm glad they appear clean, but they are on straw. I hope -truly I do- that you are not sorry later, but if you find you have an issue to worry about, the folks on this board will always help you as best we can. 
Again, whatever 'clearances' he showed you, the dogs that are your puppy's parents do not have clearances, so realize that what you thought was 'all the necessary paperwork' was NOT.


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## PhatPuppy (Oct 19, 2015)

Your suspicion may not have been out of line but your comments, tone, accusations and attacks were. You accused myself as well as others who made comments of many things that I take offence too.

For example, in your response you say "I checked- there are no clearances, so whatever he says..."

No one said anything about this. Ray never claimed my pups parents got these clearances, it's not listed on his site and maybe, just maybe those clearances are not important to everyone. Clearances don't guarantee that my pup won't have an issue down the road with any of these problems, as was my case with my last golden, Taz. While I could go back to complain to the original breeder it won't bring back my beloved Taz.

I think we'll agree to disagree on your views as well as mine on breeders.

You may know a lot about Goldens, but I feel you have a lot to learn about human beings and how to treat people with respect. Stick to the Goldens...


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I'm sorry you feel attacked. I really am. 
But when you come on this site and post a glowing review that someone else might come here and read, and no one points out how wrong you are about this man being a reputable good breeder, that's doing a disservice to the people who (as I said in my first post to you) come here wanting some help in discerning whether someone is a good breeder. 

You obviously feel Ray is a good breeder. I do not. No one who values Goldens would feel the method of raising puppies or choosing parents or screening for health that he uses is satisfactory. 
When you post that you got all the 'necessary certification' you imply you got what the best minds in the breed believe is a bare minimum to insure health of offspring. So pointing out that you did not get this is important for others who may read this thread. I didn't point it out to make you feel bad, or disrespected, truly I didn't. I'm not a mean person and I cannot think of anyone who thinks badly of me. I didn't make you post a glowing review on a breeder whose methods are less than deserving of your praise, though, and it feels to me like NOT pointing out the gaps is akin to approving of whatever's been said prior. 
So, we do have to agree to disagree on this. For your hurt feelings I apologize. For my feelings about this breeder, I do not apologize. 
I do hope you remain happy with your current puppy, and the puppy you plan to get next from him, and I honestly wish you only the best with your puppies as they grow into dogs.


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## Coopsmom (Jan 13, 2015)

PhatPuppy said:


> Your suspicion may not have been out of line but your comments, tone, accusations and attacks were. You accused myself as well as others who made comments of many things that I take offence too.
> 
> For example, in your response you say "I checked- there are no clearances, so whatever he says..."
> 
> ...


Clearances ARE important to the breed and while you and Ray may not agree with this, all reputable breeders and dog owners believe in the importance of clearances based on research and science. i think you may want to step back and read this thread again in terms of who said what to who.... I also find it a bit suspicious that 3 brand new members joined this forum, found this thread and decided to post to defend Ray's breeding practices. Also, I am not clear on your numerous references to "blue ribbon show dog breeders". The 4 basic clearances apply to ALL goldens and are important for the sake of the breed!


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## TMac2000 (Sep 29, 2014)

PhatPuppy said:


> We also met other potential candidates in case we wanted to wait longer and go with anthor mother and father (however we fell in love with Dusty the father and Rosy the mother).


Did you get the clearances and 3-5 year pedigrees for your dog? With a long history of keeping both sires and dams on site and breeding many litters per year, I'd worry about accidental inbreeding somewhere along the line. 

Just wondering!


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## Coopsmom (Jan 13, 2015)

TMac2000 said:


> How old were the parents? My 11 year old golden - rescued at 10 months from the shelter but originally from this farm - had a mom named Rosy. The Father was Toby (senior). By gosh, I hope he's just recycling names and not breeding old dogs! :crossfing
> 
> Did you get the clearances and 3-5 year pedigrees for your dog? With a long history of keeping both sires and dams on site and breeding many litters per year, I'd worry about accidental inbreeding somewhere along the line.
> 
> Just wondering!


This is a great question TMac. this discussion has been primarily focused on "clearances" as one important component of ethical breeding but there are lots of other considerations as well in terms of how the breeder chooses the sire/dam, what qualities/characteristics they have, how close they are genetically, etc. A 3-5 generation pedigree allows the breeder (and potential owner) to understand the pup's history, possible past problems, etc. Simply seeing "papers" is never enough in terms of reputable breeding practice.


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## Weneedmorekindness (Jul 25, 2016)

PhatPuppy said:


> Your suspicion may not have been out of line but your comments, tone, accusations and attacks were. You accused myself as well as others who made comments of many things that I take offence too.
> 
> For example, in your response you say "I checked- there are no clearances, so whatever he says..."
> 
> ...


 @PhatPuppy - I also have two absolutely beautiful Golden's from Ray, and I just feel as though you are wasting your breath here. I also saw this site a couple of years ago when individuals were asking about Ray's 'farm' and for the sole reason that I could see how people reacted to anything positive being said about Ray, I refused to draw myself into such negativity.

Clearly this is a site for Golden Breeders of the absolute highest standards that never have anything ever go wrong with their dogs and they live forever without any issues at all. Sure.

Don't waste your breath here anymore. I know I have the two most beautiful and healthy Golden Retrievers in the world, so obviously you have the third 

I just wanted you to know that I think it is great you posted your thoughts here, and it is trashy how the others replied to you...all throughout,.

And no, I am not Ray, nor a breeder of any kind. Like you I got here out of sheer curiosity and just felt the need to give you a little support. Why, because I am human and kind. Oh, and I love my dogs...my dogs from Ray.

I can only imagine the replies this is going to bring. Yes, i just joined today because I HAVE to in order to send this message on. 

1-2-3 GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Everyone is entitled to choose their own breeder that is the great thing about the options we have. That you are satisfied with a breeder who is not interested in using basic health screenings to produce a better chance at a healthy long lived puppy was obviously the right choice for you and one you are satisfied with.

The forum tends to get puppy buyer/shoppers/lurkers who do want a breeder who is doing everything possible to try to produce a puppy with the best chance at a healthy long life. For those people this breeder is 180 degrees from their needs. Also, the forum posters tend to recommend this way as well because health is important to us. 

It is not a personal grudge nor an attack on anyone's dog or anyone's decision. I am sure anyone who buys from this breeder loves thier dog dearly. We all have the best dog and the beauty is we are all right.

It is simply a fact that if health is important to a buyer a reputable breeder who's dogs have full health certifications is the best choice. Breedes like this one are not. 

Every buyer should have the right to make their best decision. That means knowing what you are getting and what you are not. Honestly my biggest beef with any breeder is taking advantage of another person's lack of knowledge by lying, misleading and misrepresenting thier dogs as it robs people of making their best desicion.

I hope you stick around. Start a thread for your dogs. Become an active poster her we have lots of great areas to participate in. Welcome to forum.


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

I'm super embarrassed to admit how very naïve I was when it came to puppies of any kind, especially Golden puppies pre this site. I am super grateful for the members and breeders who take time out of their day to educate newbies about the importance of good breeders. 


Let me start by saying I joined after we put a deposit down & didn't know this section existed until after Dory was home- and wish I had known sooner, honestly. 


We bought our first golden, Bayleigh, from a pet store almost 11 years ago. Totally by chance. And we didn't know we were supporting puppy-mills or the like until several years after owning her. She is just now having some health issues and we were blessed to escape the horrible of what could have beens. 


When we decided to welcome another(Bayleigh has made us fall head over heels in love with this gentle, beautiful, intelligent breed). we knew better than a pet store. I did NOT however know about clearances, or what to look for, etc. 


We didn't get some discount puppy with Dory. She was $1600 in Florida and I am assuming that is on the low end of average for my state. However, what we did get? We got a VERY sick puppy. A breeder who refunded our money for selling me a parvo puppy(and we spent that, plus another 6200 to save her!)- but offered zero other assistance other than to "take her back and treat at home" Which our vet said, for her age and size, would be a death sentence. Then, two-weeks ago, she text to say that her other female golden just delivered. My heart sank. She isn't a 'good' breeder by standards. She loved her puppies and her dogs, no doubt. She checked daily on Dory. She still does. But Dory's parents have no clearances, she hasn't take precautions against another litter with parvo, and she is breeding dogs like rabbits. 


As much as we LOVE our puppy(who is now 17 weeks and healthy) in the back of our minds- mainly due to this forum- we wish we would have had the resources Robin and others have shared. And now we worry- will we get lucky twice? Or will Dory start to have health issues way sooner than she'd need to if she was protected prior to her conception? 


Just my two cents when you describe your "great" dogs. No clearances doesn't mean for sure health issues; but having them sure would help ME sleep better at night!


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## Missylou (Oct 19, 2016)

I'm a recently-retired person, I am looking for a companion either a dog or a cat. That makes me a first time owner.
I've been told some very nice stories and some awful ones too about animals bought in Pet stores. So I'm looking at breeders also.
Should I go pure or mixed breed. I'm looking for things/tips of what could be best for me. What type of care and expenses I'm looking at etc. when I append upon this forum.
As you can see I'm searching and would not like to make a mistake especially for the animal. I would like it to be a good match for both of us.
Isn't there a lot more things to verify to make sure we are dealing with good and proper breeders?
For example: - a City Operating permit - the Breeder's credentials - his Affiliations to specific Clubs - to name just a few?
Isn't it mandatory for the breeder to post these things in clear view of his customers (for verification purposes) specially when looking for a PUREBRED?
Wouldn't it be recommended for the breeder to mention his dog's vet's name for some follow-up?
This was just the beginning of my research on the Golden Retriever Farm after I've seen some of the dogs (since I'm in the vicinity). As far as I can see from this page, appearances could be deceiving.
The Golden Retriever Farm does not have a City Operating Permit even though it's been in operation since 2000 (just over 16 years - definitively not 20), as the Zoning Bylaws do not permit it in that area (no more than 3 dogs max at all time). It was refused at the beginning in 2000 and again in 2015.
The owner does not seem to know half of what I have read on this page, especially about the clearance part. Yes I agree the dogs SEEM all in good health and all SEEM to be well treated and fed (but as I mentioned this is the appearance part - what we are showed or told). So I would think here goes the credentials part as well. This does not mean that the owner is not a nice, hard working person who loves Golden Retrievers .... well he seems to anyway.
So what would you recommend for a first time owner? Small/big, pure/mixed breed, as for care and cost which direction should I take ... a dog or a cat? I am an animal lover but gees I didn't know it would be such a hard decision.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

There are many things,yes, that one can consider when deciding on a breeder. GRCA membership is important since every year the member signs to uphold the Code of Ethics (but even that does not always mean they will actually uphold the CoE). PArticipation in various venues, such as obedience, tracking, agility, conformation- that should give the breeder more knowledge about the breed and their own dog and his/her worth to the gene pool. Clearances- at least the 4 core clearances-and done by proper practitioners, such as a cardiologist clearance for the heart rather than the pet vet's opinion.
Golden Marengere was thoroughly vetted in the preceding posts as to how his breeding program complies with best practices. I didn't go back to check today but assume nothing has changed there.

It will be a hard decision no matter what breed you go with, because no matter the breed, you will want to be sure the breed club's recommendations are followed as to clearances (they differ by the breed) and acceptable ethics. Even a mixed breed from the pound- you'll want to spend a good deal of time with that dog and read every assessment they have done on intake so you can make a good choice of a life partner. You will love having a pet, that I am sure of- they are always glad to see you.


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## Baker0831 (Nov 20, 2016)

Ray Marengere is a very reputable breeder. I purchased 2 Shih Tzus from him at 8 weeks old. They are now 4 yrs. and just took them to the farm to see Ray. It's an annual event with us and we stay in touch. He works incredibly long hours 7 days a week. A wonderful man who loves the dogs so much.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I would agree that he is reputable- but his reputation is not a good one. 
I'm sorry to read that he has been breeding shih tzu as well as Goldens, hope he does a better job with them and does not treat them as farm animals raised on hay....


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## jboyed (Feb 25, 2017)

I have purchased our 3rd Golden from Ray. He loves his dogs, takes VERY good care of them and works closely with thee vet in Caselman (one of the best in Canada). Our girls have been healthy, smart, sweet dispositions, and i would definitely go back to Ray for another puppy. while he may have a large operation,it helps avoid overbreeding. I believe he may also be crossing the American with the English to help breed out some of the defects American breed has had over the decades and that the english breed doesn't have.

I don't think he does any showing, but his dogs are definitely not treated like livestock. he knows them all and interacts with each and every one every day.

john boyd


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I am glad you are happy with your dogs from him, but I would posit that you are not in any position to determine anything about how to avoid overbreeding, and certainly you are making judgements on the English dogs that are not based in any factual study.
Goldens are not a breed that should be raised on hay- or in a barn-


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

jboyed said:


> I have purchased our 3rd Golden from Ray. He loves his dogs, takes VERY good care of them and works closely with *thee vet in Caselman (one of the best in Canada).* Our girls have been healthy, smart, sweet dispositions, and i would definitely go back to Ray for another puppy. while he may have a large operation,it helps avoid overbreeding. I believe he may also be crossing the American with the English to help breed out some of the defects American breed has had over the decades and that the english breed doesn't have.
> 
> I don't think he does any showing, but his dogs are definitely not treated like livestock. he knows them all and interacts with each and every one every day.
> 
> john boyd


Can you point me to the research/data/methodology that rates vets in Canada?


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## Danielle Emond (Aug 2, 2017)

*Unreal*



Prism Goldens said:


> I am glad you are happy with your dogs from him, but I would posit that you are not in any position to determine anything about how to avoid overbreeding, and certainly you are making judgements on the English dogs that are not based in any factual study.
> Goldens are not a breed that should be raised on hay- or in a barn-


Yes I am new to this forum and yes I own an 11 year old Golden or should I say I am owned by an 11 year old Golden. I purposely registered for this forum after reading this thread that started a few years ago and that I just happened upon. I am dumbfounded at your rudeness and yes it is rudeness. I am a 61 year old woman who unfortunately is not retired yet and reside on a hobby farm with my straight egyptian arabian horse, some miniature horses, chickens, ducks, many rescued cats... I find your tone to this other poster in extreme poor taste and upbringing. There are ways to educate people without looking down on them and basically attacking them personally with snide little comments from you and some others here. I can honestly state that I would never purchase a golden from a breeder who speaks with such rancour to others. Yes my golden is registered and I did purchase him from a registered breeder and he is now, some days, more slow to get up from his sleep position but that has to do with older age, something ALL dogs go through in their senior years. He has always had 7 acres of totally fenced land to play, run, etc, Your snide remarks about this other person's dogs being on hay is VILE and DISGUSTING and doesn't put your personally in a very good light. My dog is an indoor dog BUT they need the space to run and play, not stuck in a house 24/7 or be in an apartment downtown just so they aren't "on hay" as you so say. Hopefully you have learnt to tone down your rhetoric in a more thoughtful manner in the years since your messages were posted - signed "Danielle Emond (in case you think I am Ray) from Oxford Mills, Ontario. Have a nice day.


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

Danielle Emond said:


> Yes I am new to this forum and yes I own an 11 year old Golden or should I say I am owned by an 11 year old Golden. I purposely registered for this forum after reading this thread that started a few years ago and that I just happened upon. I am dumbfounded at your rudeness and yes it is rudeness. I am a 61 year old woman who unfortunately is not retired yet and reside on a hobby farm with my straight egyptian arabian horse, some miniature horses, chickens, ducks, many rescued cats... I find your tone to this other poster in extreme poor taste and upbringing. There are ways to educate people without looking down on them and basically attacking them personally with snide little comments from you and some others here. I can honestly state that I would never purchase a golden from a breeder who speaks with such rancour to others. Yes my golden is registered and I did purchase him from a registered breeder and he is now, some days, more slow to get up from his sleep position but that has to do with older age, something ALL dogs go through in their senior years. He has always had 7 acres of totally fenced land to play, run, etc, Your snide remarks about this other person's dogs being on hay is VILE and DISGUSTING and doesn't put your personally in a very good light. My dog is an indoor dog BUT they need the space to run and play, not stuck in a house 24/7 or be in an apartment downtown just so they aren't "on hay" as you so say. Hopefully you have learnt to tone down your rhetoric in a more thoughtful manner in the years since your messages were posted - signed "Danielle Emond (in case you think I am Ray) from Oxford Mills, Ontario. Have a nice day.


Sorry - have to jump in here. From MY perspective Robin has not been rude at all in this thread - if anything, she has been measured and calm. She is highly respected here and in the Golden Retriever world. I'm currently meeting breeders and preparing to purchase a new puppy in the spring. Robin has bent over backwards to answer my many questions to her, both about her kennel and graciously has recommended 3 to 4 other kennels/breeders for me to speak with. And I would be HONORED to give one of Robin's pups a home, if she felt I was the type of home she was looking for, for one of her beloved puppies. 

I also did not know anything about clearances and the importance of carefully selecting your breeder and your future puppy and found Noah through Craigslist. And of course, once you go to see a GR puppy - no matter their parentage, they have you at hello! LOL And of course, he joined our family. Would I trade him in for the world? Absolutely not - he's stuck with me for life. Would I recommend that someone else do the same as we did - Absolutely not. And I love his BYB as a person. She follows up with all the puppy parents, even comes to puppy reunion parties that are planned. She's a great person - BUT, she has never had any clearances done on her dogs. Her heart is in the right place, but there was no research involved in the pedigree. It's why "I" chose to get all four clearances done on Noah once I learned after the fact how important they are - because knowledge is power, and I want to know if he has inherited cardiac issues, eye issues, dysplasias. So far, he cleared on heart, eye and elbow, and has mild hip dysplasia (you wouldn't know it by seeing how he moves). But now we know, and we can plan for arthritic hips in his old age, that will probably be more painful than if he wasn't dysplastic. And eyes need to be done yearly. 

With the high percentage chance of cancer taking our kiddo's lives (the last statistic I read is that over 60% of goldens die at a young age of cancer), why WOULDN'T you want to deal with a reputable breeder, who's passion is making sure that they breed the healthiest dogs possible, based on COI's, clearances, longevity of the lineage, etc? Ray clearly doesn't do that research, hell, he doesn't even get clearances on his sires and dams to mitigate passing on possible genetic defects. My Noah's breeder doesn't do that research either, and it's why we won't buy another puppy from her (though she's not even sure she'll do any other breedings at this time, she spayed Noah's dam after her last litter - and only has one other younger female at the moment). 

Anyway, I'm really not sure why you, someone who until today, wasn't even a part of this discussion, is taking Robin's comments so personally, when they weren't even directed to you personally?


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## GoldenGalore (Sep 15, 2016)

This has been an interesting string of posts to read. Those who have been defending Ray Marengere and his Golden Retriever Farm are completely missing the point of the reputable breeders on this forum. Robin of Prism Goldens has NOT been rude. She is helping to educate others on this forum about what qualifications are necessary for a Golden Retriever breeder to be deemed "reputable" -- and those qualifications include health clearances and breeding practices. This is CRUCIAL for people who love this breed and want to improve the future health and longevity of this breed. This man may be a very nice man who loves his dogs, but The Golden Retriever Farm is clearly a for-profit puppy farm or puppy mill or whatever label you want to give it. People who purchase puppies from this man are just perpetuating a practice that diminishes the future health and temperament of the Golden Retriever breed. For anyone who has lost a Golden to cancer or other genetically-predisposed health issues, what this man is doing is irresponsible.


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## Taylor Oliver (Jun 25, 2017)

Wow... this post is disheartening. At the end of the day, you can't always make others understand the positive in what you're trying to say. To all saying Robin was rude, I'm unsure how you would say such a thing at all. She is in fact, supporting what she believes to be the proper way to raise this magnificent breed we have the privilege of owning. And she has an awesome reputation of doing so. Someone with her knowledge and reputation does not get there from being rude and condescending. 

I think some have mistaken posts about the quality of the breeding, to be posts bashing the quality and overall nature of the person in light. Nobody said any rude things about Ray, they simply stated that they did not support his way of breeding. Nobody claimed that Ray did not love his dogs, they simply identified that his breeding practices had faults. 

It's sad to hear people discredit the importance of health clearances, whelping environments, and breeding practices. No, obtaining all health clearances does not mean that their offspring will live until the longest possible age without issues, but it DOES INCREASE those chances. If you're willing to take a chance on producing/supporting a litter that has a higher chance of living with premature cancer or diseases at a young age, then frankly it is very confusing how one can claim to care so much for the well being of the animal. I guess some people look at pets as a luxury and not a family member....
We wouldn't practice/support ways that may increase our children's/family member's risk for cancer/disease now would we?

So for all claiming how Robin or others are being rude and inconsiderate, please understand that someone such as her has poured her heart, time, and I'm sure, tears, into this breed. Because some show their dog in a venue does not mean that they think they're better than others... it means they're dedicated to producing a quality life for their dog/breed. These people put so much time into endless research and evaluation to insure that they are producing a family member with longevity, health, and temperament in mind.

If you are not willing to educate yourselves on the standard and practice of the breed, do not attempt to discredit those who have spent YEARS doing so. Once you realize the importance of creating healthy offspring with the sake of their health in mind, and not your convenience, then you will know that all that has been previously stated is out of care for the breed. 

At the end of the day, a breeder that produced pups without taking the proper steps to insure a quality life, is one who does so for profit. This is not to say these dogs are not capable of providing the same companionship as those from "show" or reputable breeders. But they were not produced with the right outcome in mind. This is also not discrediting the love Ray has for his dogs. But as I mentioned before, if your goal is not to optimize the chances of a healthy life and environment, how far does that love for the animal/breed reach?


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Danielle Emond said:


> Yes I am new to this forum and yes I own an 11 year old Golden or should I say I am owned by an 11 year old Golden. I purposely registered for this forum after reading this thread that started a few years ago and that I just happened upon. I am dumbfounded at your rudeness and yes it is rudeness. I am a 61 year old woman who unfortunately is not retired yet and reside on a hobby farm with my straight egyptian arabian horse, some miniature horses, chickens, ducks, many rescued cats... I find your tone to this other poster in extreme poor taste and upbringing. There are ways to educate people without looking down on them and basically attacking them personally with snide little comments from you and some others here. I can honestly state that I would never purchase a golden from a breeder who speaks with such rancour to others. Yes my golden is registered and I did purchase him from a registered breeder and he is now, some days, more slow to get up from his sleep position but that has to do with older age, something ALL dogs go through in their senior years. He has always had 7 acres of totally fenced land to play, run, etc, Your snide remarks about this other person's dogs being on hay is VILE and DISGUSTING and doesn't put your personally in a very good light. My dog is an indoor dog BUT they need the space to run and play, not stuck in a house 24/7 or be in an apartment downtown just so they aren't "on hay" as you so say. Hopefully you have learnt to tone down your rhetoric in a more thoughtful manner in the years since your messages were posted - signed "Danielle Emond (in case you think I am Ray) from Oxford Mills, Ontario. Have a nice day.


With all due respect, I think you have taken Robin's comments completely out of context and turned them into something that she was not saying. She was not attacking people who live on farms, or have hobby farms, or raise their dogs on farms. You said yourself, your dog is an indoor dog who gets to run about your acres of land. That IS a great life for a dog - I am sure Robin would agree. What she was talking about was people breeding (and overbreeding) and raising puppies in a barn (on hay), with little to no socialization. Her comments weren't against the farming way of life - it was about the poor breeding of Golden Retrievers - a breed of dog that should not be bred and raised in barns.


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## Specialkay (Jun 11, 2018)

I just stumbled on the forum and was reading a bit of it. Wanted to talk about my personal experience with Ray. 
First off, I highly doubt he’d be on his forum as someone else... my dad and I used to go there and help him set up his computer, and I remember helping him and showing him how to use a computer. He is older and is quite tech challenged. He ended up having a student just fix up his website. 

Secondly, we’ve have 2 golden retrievers from Ray’s farm. We live in Avalon in Orleans, and perhaps if anyone from the area happens to read them, they may know our first golden named Bear, and now we have Mason. I know there’s a lovely family who have adopted 3 golden retrievers from Ray, and they have a rescue one from Golden Rescue which I used to work at. 

Health-wise and temperament-wise, both of our babies have been wonderful. Bear wasn’t neutered so sometimes he liked to run away from us, haha. But Mason is neutered and most people in the area see that he’s very happy-go lucky and loves being pet. 

I mean, obviously everyone would have different experiences with Ray, but keep in mind he worked the entire farm on his own. My dad and I used to try and go out there to help him a bit after our first golden passed away. It was quite nice to play with the puppies and help him out for a couple of hours. I know a few high school students from orleans would go out there also to help him out. 

I believe a few years ago I heard he was retiring the farm from the other family who has Golden’s from him. Unsure if he really has retired. We are considering going back to see if he has more puppies to keep our Mason company!


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## AspieMom (Mar 30, 2020)

I’m new here but I feel the need to add to this thread. I used to work for Ray at the “farm”, and grew up around reputable dog breeders, so I feel qualified to give my two cents worth of thoughts.

The Golden Retriever Farm is not where I would get a puppy from.

Yes, he’s registered with the CKC, but that’s a piece of paper. He takes requests for a particular breeding, then usually tries to actually breed them, but if the bitch doesn’t take he’ll breed her to another stud and still tell the people it was the breeding they requested. One of his males is the size of a Newfoundland.... that’s something you should be prepared for, not surprised because you saw “the father” and he’s a normal sized Retriever.

He took back a dog he sold when its temperament was aggressive and then started using him as a stud. This male killed another of his studs and attacked a second, we were lucky to be near and pulled him off.

He literally had over 15 breeding dogs at a time.

He breeds his bitches as early and as frequently as he can, not giving them a good break between breedings to recover well.

He doesn’t do any of the testing he should to ensure he’s not breeding any genetic issues.

His dogs live their entire lives in a barn. They have never experienced life in a house. Yes, the puppies are sweet, but those adults are just there to make money for him, they’re not well loved pets who are part of the family.

You need to make your own choices, but the problem is that most of the general public doesn’t know what they should be looking out for. Make an informed choice.


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## Amomandherdogs (Jul 21, 2020)

AspieMom said:


> I’m new here but I feel the need to add to this thread. I used to work for Ray at the “farm”, and grew up around reputable dog breeders, so I feel qualified to give my two cents worth of thoughts.
> 
> The Golden Retriever Farm is not where I would get a puppy from.
> 
> ...


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## Amomandherdogs (Jul 21, 2020)

I totally agree... you need to do your homework and make an informed choice. Unfortunately, although I have had three lovely, gentle goldens from the Golden Retriever Farm... one died from hemangiosarcoma at the age of 5 and one has had three hip replacements (she rejected one). My first Golden actually turned 14 today though! Ray was a very nice man and obviously, the puppies were absolutely adorable! .... but that isn’t enough! Do your homework!


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## HM92 (Sep 4, 2021)

Found this forum while searching golden retrievers for fun since I have a pup and like to see what people are asking for them ($) nowadays.
I got my golden from Ray back in 2015 - I made a few visits to Rays house/barn to check out the pups and adult/parents. Great experience - you can tell that Ray takes the job seriously and is invested in it not just for profit.
The barn/set up is organized and clean. Ray is obviously a retired man who loves goldens and wanted to spend the rest of his days doing what he enjoys most.
My boy just turned 6 last weekend and has never had any health issues - always has excellent temperament and is extremely smart and playful. I trained him myself, since I had a few months off work when I first got him, so he’s super obedient.

don’t listen to the negative/ignorant comments here talking down about Ray and his goldens. Trust people who have actually went there and got a golden - long term experience. That’s what counts.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

I am glad to had a positive experience. There are some very serious concerns that this breeder may not be doing everything they should in regards to the Heath certifications on breeding dogs. Since you are so quick to share positive service information perhaps you can share the much more critical health information. What are your dog’s parents registration names. Sharing full and verifiable health certifications would do more to bolster you glowing review than the status of the barn the dogs are kept in.


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## HM92 (Sep 4, 2021)

LJack said:


> I am glad to had a positive experience. There are some very serious concerns that this breeder may not be doing everything they should in regards to the Heath certifications on breeding dogs. Since you are so quick to share positive service information perhaps you can share the much more critical health information. What are your dog’s parents registration names. Sharing full and verifiable health certifications would do more to bolster you glowing review than the status of the barn the dogs are kept in.


Nothing about my post was Quick. I read every post on this topic before saying anything.
I’m not a breeder nor am I someone who knows every aspect on what to look for in judging a breeding facility. 

Unless I have proof of Ray conducting malpractice or extremely bad behaviour in regards to breeding goldens, I’ll recommend him to anyone looking for one.
Definitely trust Ray rather than the random people online trying to sell their litter from 2 goldens who aren’t purebred. Trying to fetch 2500 +.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

HM92 said:


> Nothing about my post was Quick. I read every post on this topic before saying anything.
> I’m not a breeder nor am I someone who knows every aspect on what to look for in judging a breeding facility.
> 
> Unless I have proof of Ray conducting malpractice or extremely bad behaviour in regards to breeding goldens, I’ll recommend him to anyone looking for one.
> Definitely trust Ray rather than the random people online trying to sell their litter from 2 goldens who aren’t purebred. Trying to fetch 2500 +.


So is that a no? You are not willing to provide the very important and verifiable from an unbiased source information?

I don’t know about anyone else, but I am more willing to trust verifiable health certifications from OFA than anything any breeder would say.

Sadly the glowing reports are always anecdotal he is nice and never any actual information on being a good breeder. Even the worst, unethical puppy mills are likely very nice when they are getting hundreds or thousands of dollar from a buyer. While nice is a good component to know about, that is not what makes a breeder responsible or good.

I hope you do choose to share actual data on your dog’s parents that could possibly show the breeder is making responsible breeding choices.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

"Unless I have proof of Ray conducting malpractice or extremely bad behaviour in regards to breeding goldens, I’ll recommend him to anyone looking for one" See, or maybe you won't- breeding any breed without the proper health clearances IS malpractice. 
Share your dog's sire and dam registered names. I hope I am wrong, but I suspect I would find no clearances on either of them. And that is the very definition of careless and irresponsible breeding. 
Not sure why it is no one gets people can be nice as can be, yet still be awful at breeding dogs. Nice does not play into it- breeding is an art and a science, and creating lives without proper care given to the genetic choices one makes is foolish and ultimately costs the people who buy the puppies and give them a wonderful life- until they are crippled or die an untimely death due to the choices that 'nice' breeder made.


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## NickHdoglover (2 mo ago)

HM92 said:


> Found this forum while searching golden retrievers for fun since I have a pup and like to see what people are asking for them ($) nowadays.
> I got my golden from Ray back in 2015 - I made a few visits to Rays house/barn to check out the pups and adult/parents. Great experience - you can tell that Ray takes the job seriously and is invested in it not just for profit.
> The barn/set up is organized and clean. Ray is obviously a retired man who loves goldens and wanted to spend the rest of his days doing what he enjoys most.
> My boy just turned 6 last weekend and has never had any health issues - always has excellent temperament and is extremely smart and playful. I trained him myself, since I had a few months off work when I first got him, so he’s super obedient.
> ...



We just lost a 14 1/2 year old golden one of whose parents came from Ray's farm. Both parents were were registered with the CKC. As we explore options for our next dog, almost certainly a golden, we are looking for a dog from the same lineage. Our Champagne was all we could have hoped for in a dog. The only health issue she had in her entire life until the very end was a torn cruciate ligament. She recovered from the surgery extremely well at the age of 10. While we would never expect to replace our Champy I thought it would be prudent to explore a dog from the same lineage considering the absence of any health issues and her incredibly gentle, caring and playful temperament. There are a lot of posts on this forum by people who have not been to the farm or have one of Ray's dogs, but we do and she has been the best pet experience of our life.
If anyone wants to offer me cautionary advice as we look for anther dog or offer any other advice about this breeder, or others, I would welcome the information as we hope to do our best research possible before we proceed with another golden.


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