# Pro plan?



## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

Pro Plan has a sensitive skin formula. i feed Brooks All Life Stages.


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

Proplan is a great food and affordable for a higher quality food. Beamer boy and the two labs get it- chicken and rice all life stages. Their coats are great and I highly recommend the food.

There is a sensitive skin and stomach formula- it is Barley and Salmon so maybe you want to try that.


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

I have seen a lot of people on this forum feed Pro Plan with good results. I feed mine Nutro Ultra LB, also available from Petsmart but more expensive than Pro Plan. Petsmart also has a newer line called Simply Nourish that has some nice ingredients and is reasonably priced. I thought of switching to it, but had a bad experience with switching to Acana this summer, so went back to what they did well on.

Natural, wholesome and balanced Simply Nourish™ Dry Dog Food 

There are also limited ingredient versions available
Simply Nourish™ Limited Ingredient Dog Food for food sensitivities


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

I've seen a lot of show dogs on ProPlan, and they all have great coats.


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## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

I feed the Sensitive Skin and Stomach Pro Plan to my golden (and my lab eats it too--my little dog doesn't like salmon, so she doesn't eat this). I don't have any complaints with it....my golden's coat isn't as good as it has been on other foods--but it's not bad either. When he was young, he had a thin coat, but it grew in nicely after he turned 2 or so. (not sure how old your girl is). My lab looks fantastic on it...but she has a really nice natural coat on her.


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## TheCrewAndUs (Sep 11, 2011)

Thank you.
How is the food quality compared to Taste of the Wild-Salmon?


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## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

Ellejee said:


> Thank you.
> How is the food quality compared to Taste of the Wild-Salmon?


You ask 10 people, you may get 10 opinions.....

I'm personally not a grain free feeder--but I will say, I think TOTW is a decent one, especially for the price. However, I am not completely comfortable with Diamond because of their manufacturing issues and recalls earlier this year. However, a lot have continued on with it--and have no complaints. 

At the same time, a lot of people do not like Purina--and then you have some that have only fed Purina for 20+ years. 

I have fed a lot of foods over the years to my dogs (as well as rescues I've taken in, etc) and in the last 2 years, really struggled to find a food that my golden did well on. Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach has been a God-send to him and while I have tried a couple others in the process, I keep going back to it. 

My ideas on dog food have changed pretty drastically over the last few years. And now, My opinion is--whatever works for YOUR DOG (whether it's TOTW, Pro Plan, Raw or Iams, for examples), is what is best for YOUR dog. Find one that is easy to get, easily afforded by your budget and that your dog does well on and just feed him and love him.  I used to drive myself nuts about dog food (not saying you are, just sharing my experience) and I'm so glad I finally figured out that feeding what is best for my dogs (not best for ME) is the way to go.  

As far as Petsmart goes--I like Pro Plan and Eukanuba personally. The thing about them is they are readily available, affordable and have been around for years and are 'tried and true'.  I've heard some good things about Simply Nourish on a lab board, but have not tried that one, personally--though my dogs do LOVE their canned food. 

Good luck.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

I feed Bella Pro Plan primarily because that's what the breeder was feeding her. She gets the All Life Stages formula with the smaller kibble. She seems to like it enough.


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## TheCrewAndUs (Sep 11, 2011)

Thank you. I will give it a try


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## Nugget'sMommy (Dec 10, 2012)

I am on my 4th Golden. They never had health problems, were never overweight, & always had gorgeous, full coats. My 2 first ones, they were 2 when I was born, were perfectly healthy & pretty & they lived to be 14 & 15. My previous Golden, Sport, who was taken away from me after my dad passed away & I had to move in with my aunt & uncle was absolutely gorgeous & never had, & still doesn't have any health problems (I've tried to keep up with him & his new owners). My present Golden is absolutely gorgeous & extremely healthy. The vet loves him & he just turned 1 in October. Everyone I see while walking him, even some people that don't like dogs, ask me if they can have him (jokingly, but also a little serious) because of his beauty & attitude. All of these dogs were fed Science Diet from the time they were weened until either death or still are fed Science Diet to this day & will be fed it until they pass away. I put everything on this food when I say it is wonderful. Never met a dog that doesn't like it & never met a vet that wouldn't recommend it. Science Diet is to give a dog a long, healthy life. I promise. Nugget, previous dog









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## Nugget'sMommy (Dec 10, 2012)

I meant present dog.
This is the previous one, Sport, & the ones that passed away, Zack & Colt.















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## Nugget'sMommy (Dec 10, 2012)

This is another of Nugget that I adore!









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## Nugget'sMommy (Dec 10, 2012)

Here's that picture that didn't upload


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## xoerika620xo (May 25, 2012)

i feed purina to chester. i tried changing him to different a different brand (Fromm, and natural balance) but i got the same outcome that you did, really gassy, lots of poop and soft poop. now back on purina he has a schedule of 3 poops a day and they are firmed which is what i like to see (lol it sounds so funny). until you have a dog you never know how interested you would be about poop.


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

My dogs get PPP sensitive skin and stomach and do very well on it. I add salmon oil and glucosamine condroitin. I have found a store chain here that offers it at a very affordable price-- $29.99 for a 33 lb. bag. I am a believer that the dog food, like the people food, needs to be good quality but also needs to fit the budget!


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

PP sensitive skin stomach all 4 do great on it, I tried so many foods over the years and always came back to PP


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## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

Mick developed skin allergies so I put him on Wellness Core. It was expensive but less expensive then having his vet treat him for hot spots. I added salmon oil and his coat was beautiful.
The breeder I'm hoping to get a puppy from has always used PP sensitive skin and stomach. No reason for the S&S other then all 5 of her dogs are doing great on it and she feeds it to puppies.
So if it happens I'll go with the breeder's choice.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

My dogs have been eating Fromm at home, but they eat Pro Plan Premium Performance when out showing.


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## Vinnie's Mom (Jun 9, 2012)

I have fed Vinnie Simply Nourish from Petsmart since I weened him off of Puppy Chow from the "breeder" he has never has a problem with it. He has 2 really good stools a day and a beautiful coat.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> My dogs have been eating Fromm at home, but they eat Pro Plan Premium Performance when out showing.


 
Jill, which Fromm are you feeding?


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## Me11yC (Apr 15, 2012)

We've been feeding PPP Large Breed Chicken and Rice since we got him from the breeder (he was already a bit older). I asked her what food we should use and that's what she recommended (and I trust her based on her experience). Her dogs are all on PPP and look great. 
Charlie never had any problems and his coat is nice and shiny. 
I know there are a lot of "better" products out there but how would I know that they are really better for him.....


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

My guys eat PPP Sensitive Skin and Stomach, are doing great on it. I switched my two after some stomach issues last year with my boy and many recomendations from members here. 

Some dogs do great on one type of dog food while others do not. Mine were previously on BB and started having problems with it.


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## TheCrewAndUs (Sep 11, 2011)

Update on Elle and Pro Plan:

I got her the sensitive stomach and skin because I knew that she has sensitive skin. After a few days on pro plan i noticed red pimples on her stomach. I thought it was due to the fact that she had been playing with Milo a lot and getting dirty and since we were in the process of moving, she had not been getting her usual weekly bath to keep her skin clear and nice. So I gave her a bath. Once her fur was wet, all I saw was a disaster. The pimples were all over her-i just couldnt see them because of her fur.. they were on her neck, chest, legs, etc.. Went to the vet for some special medicated shampoo to leave on her skin for 10 minutes. Did it twice that week and changed her food to Blue salmon grain free. She doesn't have pimples anymore. No even one!

On the other hand, Milo is doing great on it. I will switch him to Blue when he is getting done with the Pro Plan bag as well.

I guess not every dog does well on PP.
Thank everybody for your advices. I really appreciate all the help 

Picture of what I saw when bathing Elle:








Picture of her belly now on Blue(minus the scratch that the pitbull did to her yesterday)


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm glad you found a food that works for her, and that is what is important. However, the sores in the picture look to me like staph skin infection, which would not be caused by the food. I think you were right that getting dirty and not getting her usual baths was the cause. But in any case I know it is always a relief to find a good food that your dogs do well on, it can drive you crazy trying to identify the right one.


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## TheCrewAndUs (Sep 11, 2011)

That's what I thought when she was younger and getting sores like these. But the vet said that staph is everywhere and can't escape it. Gave her 2 weeks of antibiotics and they were gone. But since then she's always had a couple sores on her stomach (never had a pretty belly until now) while she was on taste of the wild salmon even though she was getting her weekly bath. When I switched her to PP salmon, it became so bad (like on the pic- everywhere underneath her body+inner legs) that I didn't want to take a chance and leave her with the sores. So I switched food. I cant say for sure that it was the food though, but it may have contributed to it. I wished she would do good on PP, so maybe I should try it again since we're now settled in the new house and she can get her weekly bath.



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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Ellejee said:


> That's what I thought when she was younger and getting sores like these. But the vet said that staph is everywhere and can't escape it. Gave her 2 weeks of antibiotics and they were gone. But since then she's always had a couple sores on her stomach (never had a pretty belly until now) while she was on taste of the wild salmon even though she was getting her weekly bath. When I switched her to PP salmon, it became so bad (like on the pic- everywhere underneath her body+inner legs) that I didn't want to take a chance and leave her with the sores. So I switched food. I cant say for sure that it was the food though, but it may have contributed to it. I wished she would do good on PP, so maybe I should try it again since we're now settled in the new house and she can get her weekly bath.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Mine gets these types of sores on him regardless of what type of food hes on


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Has she been tested for hypothyroidism? That can also cause all sorts of skin issues. 

I'm glad you got the staph under control. We ended up doing the prescription shampoo that you leave in for a while with one of our Bridge boys.

I put my "sensitive" boy on Pro Plan a few years ago and he initially did well, then started losing weight, with the loose stools. We ended up switching to Wellness, which worked for a few years until we ended up on a prescription kibble which works well for him. Our puppy came to us on Pro Plan and he is thriving on it! I plan to keep him on it for as long as it's working.


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

All the vets recommend it because hills pays for much of their nutrition education, I wouldn't be surpised if its 80% grain. here are top 5 ingredients. 

Ingredients: Whole grain corn, chicken by-product meal, soybean meal, animal fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), soybean oil

All controversial ingredients
I urge you to reconsider what you feed him


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Pretty easy to determine that it is NOT 80% grain. Many top notch dogs are fed ProPlan and thrive, have generations of long lived healthy dogs. Take a look at Westminster next week....... tons of those dogs are on ProPlan. Also, ProPlan is not a Hill's product. BTW, I don't feed ProPlan but respect many who do.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Tuco said:


> All the vets recommend it because hills pays for much of their nutrition education, I wouldn't be surpised if its 80% grain. here are top 5 ingredients.
> 
> Ingredients: Whole grain corn, chicken by-product meal, soybean meal, animal fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), soybean oil
> 
> ...



thanks, I trust my own abilility to choose appropriate food for my dogs.


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## Michele4 (Oct 28, 2012)

I think if we all love our dogs and do our best for them they will all live very happy lives. And love us for it. Isn't that what its all about anyway?


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Tuco said:


> All the vets recommend it because hills pays for much of their nutrition education


As far as I know, this is completely false. Where are you getting this information?


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I was going to suggest hypothyroidism too. Not enough coat and sensitive skin are both potential symptoms and more likely to be related to thyroid function than to the food.

However, a higher fat diet can be really helpful for and skin issues if it turns out the thyroid isn't to blame.


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Ellejee, that picture is scary. Glad she is all better and doing well.


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

tippykayak said:


> As far as I know, this is completely false. Where are you getting this information?


I can't respond for Tuco, but take a look at this link. I'm sure I can find others.

Veterinary Students Information and School Resources | HillsVet

On Hill's own website, look at the bottom right on the screen regarding "upcoming events". Hills is a major sponsor of many vet students and vet professional continuing education conferences.

If you click on the "Midwest Veterinary Conference" in Ohio, you will find that that besides being a major sponsor, Hills is hosting a vet student reception one evening with free food, drink and door prizes.

Hills makes sure they get plenty of face time in print and in person to keep that name in front of future and current vets.

And if you want to read about a more direct link between Hill's and vet schools, see this link: 

http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/14147596/msu-presents-partnership-award

It refers to Michigan State vet school giving a partnership award to Hill's Pet Nutrition in recognition of all the financial and educational support given to Michigan's vet school.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I know that Hills sponsors events for vet students and partners with vet schools. That's still a long way from "Hills pays for much of vets' nutrition education."

I'm pretty sure vets pay _tuition_ for most of their education...


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## KatieBlue'sMidnightSky (Feb 22, 2011)

I looked at the photos of your girl's belly. It reminded me so much of a time when our girl was just a little baby and this similar thing happened. The vet had me eliminate one thing at a time to figure out what it was that was causing it. It was chicken! I know now that some dogs have chicken allergies, but then, I had no clue. I was baking chicken and cutting it into tiny pieces for training. I thought I was being such a good mommy giving her healthy home made treats! 

So, my point is, maybe it's about a particular ingredient, not necessarily a brand. Just a thought.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

tippykayak said:


> As far as I know, this is completely false. Where are you getting this information?


I'm still trying to figure out why vets would be recommending Purina, if Hills is paying so much of their education.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I'm glad your dog is doing better. I would be freaking out if I found zits all over either my guys bellies....


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Tuco,

Was their a merger of Hills and Purina that I'm not aware of?

No mention of Pro Plan on their site.

Hills Pet


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Nairb said:


> Tuco,
> 
> Was their a merger with Hills and Purina that I'm not aware of?
> 
> ...


i for one would be very happy since our vet recommends Hills products!


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

From working in a vet clinic I can say that Hills does have a pretty big influence on them. We have had Hills reps come in and pay for lunches for us while they explained to us why their food is so great and offer mass discounts on food for the employees. I dont care if the bag of food costs me $20 im not feeding it to my dog. I was feeding Ruby a prescription diet which I am fine with short term as they even say their diets other then their allergy one is not meant for long term use. Ruby is now on Pro Plan and doing great. My cats are now all on Pro Plan as well and am VERY happy with the results. 

But that said we also had pet insurance companies come in, Medi-cal, Purina reps Phizer (sp?) the drug company, Bayer etc. Its not just Hills. 

Mine were on Acana at one point and have from research and speaking to a couple members on here have learned their food may not be the best quality. Though, I respect if others choose to feed it


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

Nairb said:


> Tuco,
> 
> Was their a merger of Hills and Purina that I'm not aware of?
> 
> ...


I never said they were merged, quite frankly even though I diss like pro plan it's still a thousand times better than hills


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## Jtpllc (Nov 26, 2012)

I just switched cooper & Van Gogh to pro plan, thus far they like it. Doesn't seem to be so expensive either! 


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## Jtpllc (Nov 26, 2012)

Cooper loves picking out his food...

Pro plan sport is all Id use from now on 


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

A $42 bag lasts me about 6 weeks, and tons of show people, including my breeders feed it to their dogs. Bella has two small, firm poops per day. Never a runny one in 9 months. I see no reason whatsoever to change. That said, I'm sure some dogs don't do as well on it.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Molly used to eat ProPlan Performance (she was weaned onto it) and it was great until her eyes got goopy and she started scratching a lot. I thought her coat quality was already great until I switched to Acana and surprisingly it improved, along with the itching and goopy eyes. I would love to switch to ProPlan's sensitive skin and stomach formula actually .. Acana is just way too expensive but she's doing great right now and I don't wanna screw it up. 


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

MyBentley said:


> I can't respond for Tuco, but take a look at this link. I'm sure I can find others.
> 
> Veterinary Students Information and School Resources | HillsVet
> 
> ...


It's a pretty standard marketing practice for companies to have doctors on staff who visit medical schools to educate students about products. This is done at human and animal medical schools. The student doctors who get the presentations about the products are probably more likely to prescribe, recommend, or use them just because they are familiar. 

There's nothing wrong or unethical about this type of sponsorship or marketing. It's just one more reason people should be informed about what they or their dogs are eating or taking as medicine and not just go along with what is recommended or what they are told to do. It's one reason that forums such as this are so great.


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

OutWest said:


> It's a pretty standard marketing practice for companies to have doctors on staff who visit medical schools to educate students about products. This is done at human and animal medical schools. The student doctors who get the presentations about the products are probably more likely to prescribe, recommend, or use them just because they are familiar.
> 
> There's nothing wrong or unethical about this type of sponsorship or marketing. It's just one more reason people should be informed about what they or their dogs are eating or taking as medicine and not just go along with what is recommended or what they are told to do. It's one reason that forums such as this are so great.


Yes but they have a monopoly, i did a coop at 2 different vets throughout highschool saw about 15 different hills reps no other companies. On top of that they were making completely ******** claims, that corn as a first ingredient was better than meat because of nutrition and antioxidants, and that there is no significant difference between meat and plant protiens. The two clinics I was at none of them had nutrition experience beyond what they learned in their compulsery credits witch in dr.i's words was "nothing that helped much". And hills has the whole process in their pockets


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Tuco might have a point. See the bags of dog food on the left side of the following photo? Hills Prescription Diet. That's my vet's office. I still don't get the Pro Plan connection though....


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

I haven't looked back at the thread but if I every made any connection between hills and purina it was a mistake...


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Tuco said:


> I haven't looked back at the thread but if I every made any connection between hills and purina it was a mistake...
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Tuco,

Does anyone else, other than Hills, carry a line of prescription foods? That could have something to do with it.


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

Nairb said:


> Tuco,
> 
> Does anyone else, other than Hills, carry a line of prescription foods? That could have something to do with it.


No others contains line of foods that are referred to as "perscription" exept purina I think. But at the vet I got tuco microchipped at they had a wall of basically perscription diets consisting of foods by evo purina blue and a bunch of others specializing in everything from weight management to kidney failure, quite frankly I think the perscription diets are a huge scam, if you feed a healthy food with adequate nutrition any particular changes you need to make depending on the condition, quite frank even without adjustments the results will still be better, I noticed that the difference in ingredients between the different prescriptions was almost nothing exept Afew different minerals


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

I did not know this before, but according to Petsmart's website, you need a prescription from your vet to buy these in their stores. They're quite expensive.


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

Hills does the following

• offers scholarships for veterinary students
• offers educational grants for veterinary schools
• funds continuing education programs for licensed veterinarians
• maintains the Hills vet school graduate feeding program, providing food to students at no charge that they
can resell for a profit
• creates a nutrition curriculum provided to vet schools all over the world
• distributes Small Animal Clinical Nutrition textbook to vet students
• is a sponsor of the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA), of which Dr. Mark Morris, Sr. was
once president
• is a founding sponsor of the National Commission on Veterinary Economic Issues
• is a founding sponsor of the American Animal Hospital Association, of which Dr. Mark Morris, Sr. was the
first president
• sponsors the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine
• sponsors the North American Veterinary Conference
• sponsors the Western Veterinary Conference
• sponsors the Student American Veterinary Medical Association
• sponsors the Veterinary Business Management Association
• sponsors the International Veterinary Student Association
• is a member of the World Small Animal Veterinary Association
• self-professes to be one of the largest employers of veterinarians worldwide
• regularly takes its competitors to court, challenging their marketing claims

(Soggy paws.com)


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

Nairb said:


> I did not know this before, but according to Petsmart's website, you need a prescription from your vet to buy these in their stores. They're quite expensive.


Also worth noting that no one else can call their food a perscription diet because hills has that trademarked
There are no guidelines to making a perscription diet and most of different ones are the same


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Royal Canin also makes prescription foods. My spaniel eats one. To my knowledge Purina does not...but perhaps I just haven't seen them. I agree that Hills has saturated the veterinary "detailing" market and that probably their foods are recommended more by vets who don't have a lot of education in nutrition. Purina also does the detailing type of marketing to vets and vet schools. I know that because my BIL used to represent them. It's not very comforting to think that the expert for your dog is making recommendations based on some company's ability to sponsor vet medical schools. But that's why it's so important to be informed about the products available.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Our vet said Pro Plan is good despite the bags of Hills food that line the wall in the waiting room. 


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

OutWest said:


> Royal Canin also makes prescription foods. My spaniel eats one. To my knowledge Purina does not...but perhaps I just haven't seen them. I agree that Hills has saturated the veterinary "detailing" market and that probably their foods are recommended more by vets who don't have a lot of education in nutrition. Purina also does the detailing type of marketing to vets and vet schools. I know that because my BIL used to represent them. It's not very comforting to think that the expert for your dog is making recommendations based on some company's ability to sponsor vet medical schools. But that's why it's so important to be informed about the products available.


Purina does make prescription diets

Veterinary Pet Food | Purina Veterinary Diets


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Tuco said:


> Also worth noting that no one else can call their food a perscription diet because hills has that trademarked
> There are no guidelines to making a perscription diet and most of different ones are the same
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


False, Hills may have a trademark on "Prescriptives", but not prescription. 

Personally, I give my vet credit for her education, intelligence and common sense and to distinguish between total BS and good science. I also give forum members credit for picking up on some misinformation being purported about some of the dog food companies in this and other threads. If my dog's vet felt Hills Prescriptives were wrong for my dog she'd prescribe one of the Purina *OR* Royal Canin prescription diets. 

I have one dog on Purina PP who is doing great and another on a prescription diet who is finally absorbing his food. Do what is best for your dog, enough said.


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## Jtpllc (Nov 26, 2012)

There are a ton of brands on the market. One of my breeders used blue, the other used pro plan... Pro plan seems to be more affordable, easier to access, makes a 36lb bag, shows the same or better results as the more expensive brands. 

I personally can not tell you for 100% what PPP is doing for my dog, but I can tell you that he's eating his meals, not skipping like he was with ekunuba, doesn't have gas like blue, has no icky stuff under his eyes, skin looks lush, has plenty of energy so for that why would I change him from PPP?


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Nairb said:


> Our vet said Pro Plan is good despite the bags of Hills food that line the wall in the waiting room.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


The Vet I see at my Clinic feeds her own dogs Pro Plan, she has two Aussies. She also regularly attends Nutrition Seminars given in my State. 

In past years I've had a couple of my dogs that were put on a Hill's Prescription Formula to take care of a particular problem and I've also had one dog on Royal Canin's prescription food. 

My dogs are eating PPP SS which is Salmon with no corn and doing great on it. I see no need to change foods for either of them since they're both doing so well on it.

I learned a very long time ago, just because something costs a lot, doesn't necessarily mean it's better or the best. 

I have to agree with what DG said above in her post, if you find a food that works for your dog, then stick with it, why change.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Tuco said:


> quite frankly I think the perscription diets are a huge scam, if you feed a healthy food with adequate nutrition any particular changes you need to make depending on the condition, quite frank even without adjustments the results will still be better, I noticed that the difference in ingredients between the different prescriptions was almost nothing exept Afew different minerals


I didn't feel the need to contradict the earlier post about what Hills does for vets because it's largely accurate with a few distortions (the vet students don't sell the donated food for personal profit; the university sells it to fund programs).

However, this is irresponsible to the point of being dangerous. Just because you can't tell the difference by reading the back of a bag doesn't mean there isn't a difference. For some dogs, the difference between chronic illness and solid health is a prescription food. In a small number of cases, it's life or death.

It's breathtakingly irresponsible and arrogant to come on a forum and say that prescription foods are a scam and that the foods that you personally approve of are going to be better every time. Just imagine what could happen if somebody took you seriously and switched their sick dog from vet-prescribed kidney food to raw or whatever boutique kibble is getting 5 stars on DFA this week. Thoughtless comments like that can hurt dogs, so please take a second and think before you rattle off such sweepingly aggressive statements.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

tippykayak said:


> I didn't feel the need to contradict the earlier post about what Hills does for vets because it's largely accurate with a few distortions (the vet students don't sell the donated food for personal profit; the university sells it to fund programs).
> 
> However, this is irresponsible to the point of being dangerous. Just because you can't tell the difference by reading the back of a bag doesn't mean there isn't a difference. For some dogs, the difference between chronic illness and solid health is a prescription food. In a small number of cases, it's life or death.
> 
> *It's breathtakingly irresponsible and arrogant to come on a forum and say that prescription foods are a scam and that the foods that you personally approve of are going to be better every time. J*ust imagine what could happen if somebody took you seriously and switched their sick dog from vet-prescribed kidney food to raw or whatever boutique kibble is getting 5 stars on DFA this week. Thoughtless comments like that can hurt dogs, so please take a second and think before you rattle off such sweepingly aggressive statements.


:appl::appl::appl: Well said, thank you for expressing so well what so many of us are thinking!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Thanks Tippy<: 

I would have been spitting had I read that comment and didn't see anyone else respond to it. 

There is a HUGE difference between feeding a dog with a chronic or serious health issue regular food and feeding him a prescription food. We had a golden with renal failure (only 1 failing kidney, the other shriveled up like a nut) live an extra 6 months with us after N-stage diagnosis because of Hills Prescription kibble.

And our collie (IBS) is still with us today because we are feeding him RC prescription kibble. He can eat regular food now and then, but after a while his problem will inevitably flare up.


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

tippykayak said:


> I didn't feel the need to contradict the earlier post about what Hills does for vets because it's largely accurate with a few distortions (the vet students don't sell the donated food for personal profit; the university sells it to fund programs).
> 
> However, this is irresponsible to the point of being dangerous. Just because you can't tell the difference by reading the back of a bag doesn't mean there isn't a difference. For some dogs, the difference between chronic illness and solid health is a prescription food. In a small number of cases, it's life or death.
> 
> It's breathtakingly irresponsible and arrogant to come on a forum and say that prescription foods are a scam and that the foods that you personally approve of are going to be better every time. Just imagine what could happen if somebody took you seriously and switched their sick dog from vet-prescribed kidney food to raw or whatever boutique kibble is getting 5 stars on DFA this week. Thoughtless comments like that can hurt dogs, so please take a second and think before you rattle off such sweepingly aggressive statements.


If you have a chronic illness do you buy a perscription diet? No, you make the nessesary changes in your diet to keep yourself healthy. At least that way you have more controll on what you feed your dog


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## Wendi (Jul 2, 2012)

Tuco said:


> If you have a chronic illness do you buy a perscription diet? No, you make the nessesary changes in your diet to keep yourself healthy. At least that way you have more controll on what you feed your dog
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Actually, yes. When my husband was in the hospital he was prescribed a diabetic diet. The hospital would not deter from that diet, period.

Because he is human and has the ability and means to control his own diet he doesn't always follow that diet. It honestly, would be so much easier if he could just eat a pre-made diet daily to cover his needs.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Tuco said:


> If you have a chronic illness do you buy a perscription diet? No, you make the nessesary changes in your diet to keep yourself healthy. At least that way you have more controll on what you feed your dog


If you're in something like kidney failure, you're given a strict prescription diet. People don't eat kibble, so you can't buy it in a bag at the store, but yes, you're given a strict diet. It's not just a few adjustments to your regular diet.


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

I never said just Afew adjustments to your regular diet, I'm saying find a good food that was made specialy for victims of kidney failure, not some corn filled perscription diet. There are tons that are specialty foods and aren't called perscription diets


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Tuco, your arguments are not logical IMHO. Perhaps it would be easier for those of us trying to understand your points if you provided some back up research? Comparing dog kibbles to human diets is apples and oranges in my opinion.


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

As far as I know, there is *no* regulating standard by any independent organization or defined meaning to Hill's use of the word "prescription" foods, or Purina's and Royal Canin's use of "veterinary" foods.

These companies have developed these formulas for everything from weight loss to dogs prone to urinary problems. Then by their own marketing plans they decide to only make it available through vets. There is a direct link for selling and for selling at pretty high prices. Also, anytime you use the word "prescription" or "veterinary" it lends a perception of a product being some pretty serious medicine or at least a complicated substance.

I will acknowledge that the percentages of some specific minerals, nutrients, etc. are tightly regulated in some of the "prescription" formulas; but those parameters can often be found in other brands and formulas. 

Take for instance the *Hill's Prescription Diet j/d Canine Mobility* formula:

j/d® Canine Mobility - Dry

I'm pretty sure that a consumer could find the same guaranteed analysis or quite close without a prescription and for a better price and with ingredients that are not as follows: 
Whole Grain Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Flaxseed, Soybean Mill Run, Brewers Rice, Soybean Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken Liver Flavor, Powdered Cellulose, Fish Oil, Lactic Acid, Potassium Chloride, L-Lysine, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Iodized Salt, DL-Methionine, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), L-Threonine, Taurine, Soy Lecithin, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Tryptophan, L-Carnitine, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Chondroitin Sulfate, Phosphoric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

Where Hill's may have some credit is in something like one of their "renal" health formulas given for a short period of time for a serious condition. Where I part company is when they start marketing "prescription" formulas for: mobility, weight loss, aging, oral, skin, and the list goes on.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

MyBentley said:


> As far as I know, there is *no* regulating standard by any independent organization or defined meaning to Hill's use of the word "prescription" foods, or Purina's and Royal Canin's use of "veterinary" foods.
> 
> These companies have developed these formulas for everything from weight loss to dogs prone to urinary problems. *Then by their own marketing plans they decide to only make it available through vets*. There is a direct link for selling and for selling at pretty high prices. Also, anytime you use the word "prescription" or "veterinary" it lends a perception of a product being some pretty serious medicine or at least a complicated substance.
> 
> ...


Petsmart sells Prescription Diet. It's on their website.


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

Nairb said:


> Petsmart sells Prescription Diet. It's on their website.


You cannot buy Hill's Prescription Diets from PetSmart online.

You must go to the store and have a prescription. Of course, they encourage you to use their on-the-premises Banfield Hospital to get the prescription


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Tuco said:


> I never said just Afew adjustments to your regular diet, I'm saying find a good food that was made specialy for victims of kidney failure, not some corn filled perscription diet. There are tons that are specialty foods and aren't called perscription diets
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Please name some specialty foods that would meet the dietary needs of dogs with kidney or liver failure.

It is not just the main ingredients like meat, grain or potato content, etc. that is needed to support internal organ function.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

mylissyk said:


> Please name some specialty foods that would meet the dietary needs of dogs with kidney or liver failure.
> 
> It is not just the main ingredients like meat, grain or potato content, etc. that is needed to support internal organ function.


Im kinda curious about this. What is so special about the liver/kidney diets from Hills? I look at the bag and I see a regular ingredients list etc. Is there a special supplement added or something to the food? I just never understood that. I was told from a vet tech who heard from a rep (which is why shes no longer on this food) is in the Medi-cal S/O index formulas (for struvite crystals) they load the food with sodium to increase water intake which flushes the system out. Thats why I noticed the increased water consumption and urination on the prescription food. Sodium is not healthy for a human...or even a dog. So I felt by solving one problem I was potentially creating another


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Those ingredients are put together in such a way as to produce a GA (guaranteed analysis) that fits the need of whatever condition they are aimed at. Renal issues typically need very low phosphorous levels.... and the calcium/phos ratios need to stay in balance. They need to achieve that without disrupting the other dietary requirements/needs.


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

They generally lower the phosphorus content, and lower the ammount of protien. Also i believe they increase omega 3 fatty acids.


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

All I can say at this point, this thread has gone far afield from the OP's original post. Although I must say its pretty interesting reading!


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

mylissyk said:


> Please name some specialty foods that would meet the dietary needs of dogs with kidney or liver failure.
> 
> It is not just the main ingredients like meat, grain or potato content, etc. that is needed to support internal organ function.


I'm not Tuco; but if I had a dog with kidney issues, I'd want to at least take a look at Canine Caviar Special Needs kibble with 0.60 % phosphorus and 1.50% omega 3s or First Mate Pacific Ocean Fish with 0.50 phosphorus.

I'd ask my vet if the guaranteed analysis of either of those two foods would be appropriate for my dog's specific level of problem. And if he/she had no idea and declared that Hill's prescription food was the only route available for the health of my dog, I'd probably get a 2nd opinion. 

Actually, I'd probably be steering away from a total dry kibble diet in the first place.


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