# Selecting a field puppy from a litter



## Alaska7133

I normally let the breeder decide. But now the breeder is asking me to pick. It's a situation I've never been in oddly enough. I'm sure I'll get input from the breeder on the characteristics that I'm looking for. But some things you want, aren't always outwardly apparent in a 30 minute visit. I don't want to pick the friendliest pup just because it's the one that is awake at the time I'm there. So what criteria do you look at with a pup that you are meeting for the first time and taking home? Pups will be 8 weeks and I will be taking home at the same time. I'm guessing they will all be lovely and fun and choosing will be very hard.

Here's what I will be planning with the pup. Hunt tests, obedience competition, hunting, maybe field trials if I ever get that far. I hope for a pup that gets along well with other dogs since I have 2 other goldens. I need a dog that will have no problem hanging out at the office all day at work. I want a dog that will load easily in the raft and go on float trips and settle down. But one that will love to run with our mountain bikes and go all day.

Structurally I think I'll be looking for a pup that has nice front and rear matching angles. A nice broad chest. Good eye set that lines up well. A level topline. No over/under bite. Well shaped feet that seem strong and solid. I know I'm not picking a show dog, but how the pup is put together is important to me.

So knowing all that, when you are looking at a pup, what would you look at to see if they have those characteristics I'm looking for?


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## MillionsofPeaches

There were two things I cared most about and told George to look for. A dog that was confident and a dog that would want to work all day long. But the confidence thing was very important to me more than anything


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## Megora

I'm sheepish saying anything at all here because I don't have a field dog nor is that my game... but I did want to post a "hear hear" to what Shelby just said. Confidence is so important.


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## Claudia M

With Rose I had the pick of the litter. I did not decide in 30 minutes. I was there weekly and been with the pups. If I had to decide after a 30 min visit I would walk away. I looked for confidence, the dog's ability to use it's nose and reaction to noise, objects, other animals. 
Darcy was adopted so no picking.
Belle was the only girl so no picking. If there were more girls I would have probably pestered George more with questions about each. Luckily for both of us the decision was easy.


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## Swampcollie

A live clipped wing pigeon can tell you a lot.


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## hollyk

I have always said my girl lacks one scoop of confidence so it's confidence for me....followed quickly by biddable.


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## Alaska7133

Thank you! Confidence is a great way to put it! I think the breeder has pigeons. So I think we can see how he does with a clip wing. Biddable pup also. So that helps me so much. I was trying to quantify what to look for.

Any ideas for tests to determine confidence or biddibility? 


Claudia,
As for having more time than 30 min. I live in Alaska. There has been 1 good field litter in 3 years. I have no choice I have to fly to get a good pup.


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## MillionsofPeaches

Holly that is exactly why I wanted a confident pup, Katniss lacks "one" scoop for sure. Her biddability is pretty darn high, though. 
I wanted confidence and biddability but that wasn't quite as important but still very important.

Stacey, I also lived far from George but he took notes on the puppies. Since before the puppies were born I wanted confidence and a work horse so George was looking for the dogs with the most confidence and narrowed it down at the end to just Proof for me and he picked perfect. 
Can you ask the breeder to let you know which are the most confident and when you get there you can pick from that?
As far as the birdies I wouldn't worry about that litter!!! I'm sure they are doing that with the puppies too. 
I'm jealous I wish I could have a puppy from that litter but in a few years, ha ha!


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## Radarsdad

Swampcollie said:


> A live clipped wing pigeon can tell you a lot.


Very well put sir.


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## TrailDogs

Alaska7133 said:


> I normally let the breeder decide. But now the breeder is asking me to pick. It's a situation I've never been in oddly enough. I'm sure I'll get input from the breeder on the characteristics that I'm looking for. But some things you want, aren't always outwardly apparent in a 30 minute visit.


Stacey, if it is a well bred field litter the pups should all have talent and some level of confidence to do the job. I would be looking for the team player. A pup that has a lot of eye contact, wants to be with people. Confidence and drive are high on my list of necessary qualities but are useless if the pup is not willing to cooperate.
The breeder should be able to tell you about the individual pups and hopefully give you insight what would be the best choice for your goals.
I can't wait to see pictures of your new pup!


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## Claudia M

Alaska7133 said:


> Thank you! Confidence is a great way to put it! I think the breeder has pigeons. So I think we can see how he does with a clip wing. Biddable pup also. So that helps me so much. I was trying to quantify what to look for.
> 
> Any ideas for tests to determine confidence or biddibility?
> 
> 
> Claudia,
> As for having more time than 30 min. I live in Alaska. There has been 1 good field litter in 3 years. I have no choice I have to fly to get a good pup.


More than likely the breeder will have notes on the puppies, maybe videos. Since this is a field bred litter I would not be worried about birdiness. Because of the weather Belle was not introduced to birds until she was over three months old. The first time she was not so sure about the duck but in within a couple minutes and a demonstration from a lab she picked it up. Since then she has retrieved every bird, had no problems with a cripple - it is in them. I was very pleased to see she has no fear yet she has a soft mouth and did not attempt to chew on any of the birds. 

I admit I was a bit worried as Belle was a more mellow pup. Supposedly did not pass some puppy test. I talked to my mentor about it and was told that whatever test is given, whatever the pup does before 8 weeks is irrelevant. What is more relevant is what you do with the pup after 8 weeks. 

What is the litter? Do you have a link to it? Can't wait to see pictures.


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## FTGoldens

When it comes to picking a field pup, I've heard this before: 
Pick the litter, grab a pup.

Although a Lab, maybe you have heard of this dog, she was last pick:
NFC AFC Candlewoods Tanks-A-Lot, 3 time National Open Champion and High Point Derby dog with 108 total Derby Points.

As for me, the best dog that I've had so far was last pick.


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## Loisiana

This is my new philosophy for picking a puppy: Find your dream litter, and then pick the puppy that tests right in the middle of the pack. Not the "most" (most confident, most biddable, most drive) of anything, the one in the middle that balances out all attributes.


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## Alaska7133

FTGoldens said:


> When it comes to picking a field pup, I've heard this before:
> Pick the litter, grab a pup.
> 
> Although a Lab, maybe you have heard of this dog, she was last pick:
> NFC AFC Candlewoods Tanks-A-Lot, 3 time National Open Champion and High Point Derby dog with 108 total Derby Points.
> 
> As for me, the best dog that I've had so far was last pick.


I completely agree! I normally don't think about it. My first golden was just the only pup available from a litter. No picking involved. She was a fantastic dog and I was super happy to have her. Just like an education, it's also what you put into it, not just what is given to you.

I'll post photos and k9data when I pick up my pup in mid-December!


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## Vhuynh2

I also wanted confidence and biddability, and natural eye contact/attention. Not sure how important eye contact is in the grand scheme of things, but after experiencing a pup who actually did not like eye contact (not Molly), eye contact became a criterion.


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## Radarsdad

One that drinks jet fuel for breakfast and birdy. :--big_grin: Had couple of em. Can be a real pain but they need that energy and drive for field work. Just gotta learn how to channel it.


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## gdgli

MY TWO CENTS....

I choose the litter, a field bred litter.
I tell the breeder what is important to me, mainly energy level, sex.
I tell the breeder my plans for the pup.
The breeders tend to ask me what my training experience is.
I ask the breeder which pup he might suggest for me.


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## Driggsy

Thanks for all this useful information, for those of us trying to educate ourselves. 

In the "Titan x Towhee 2015" thread over in "choosing a breeder and puppy" there were videos of the pups' birdies test. Would any more experienced folks be willing to comment on what they see?


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## Alaska7133

Here's a link to the video you are speaking of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaQ6Wqn6M_Y&feature=youtu.be

Here's a forum member with a 12 week pup and a live pigeon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzP1_8DAFws

Same forum member with a 9 week pup and a live pigeon and shotgun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0FC1qpIqS0

Same forum member again with even younger puppies and a live pigeon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0jCsigONJw

So while I think checking to see how they do with a wing is ok, it's really the live pigeon is the more important test. You want to see that speed and excitement from the pup. I remember my show dog Lucy's first live bird. She was all about it and had it all figured out immediately. She was ferocious! It often doesn't matter the breeding of the dog, it's more about what goes on between the ears of the dog. They are all different.

Once you establish birdiness, it's all that bidiability that becomes so important. While Lucy is an absolute wonderful bird dog, she is not a bidable dog. Meaning she's very tough to train. 

So other tests beyond the live bird test is important to determine if that birdy puppy is the one you want. I'll be looking for a puppy that I can call and get to follow me. A puppy that I can pick up and move around and not fuss. A puppy that will make eye contact when I make a noise.


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## Swampcollie

A live clipped wing pigeon will tell you a lot more than a wing can. Most puppies will exhibit some degree of interest in feathers but that is but one small facet of what you need in a field dog.

_With the live bird you can see and evaluate desire, courage and perseverance. How much do they want that bird? How much difficulty are they willing to overcome to get the bird? Once they get to the bird, how much courage do they have in going nose to nose with something nearly as big as they are, overcoming it and picking it up._ 

Desire, courage and perseverance are traits a pup is born with. They have them in sufficient quantity or they don't.


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## Alaska7133

Swampcollie I completely agree. Thanks for putting that into words. It is those traits that are so important.

It is quite sad at a hunt test when you see a dog that won't pick up a live flyer. They are very scared and don't know what to do. My dogs if anything, like a live flyer more then a dead one. That's what you want in a dog. 

Chasing a bird wing is not a big thing. It's the live pigeon that tells a much clearer story.


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## gdgli

Swampcollie said:


> A live clipped wing pigeon will tell you a lot more than a wing can. Most puppies will exhibit some degree of interest in feathers but that is but one small facet of what you need in a field dog.
> 
> _With the live bird you can see and evaluate desire, courage and perseverance. How much do they want that bird? How much difficulty are they willing to overcome to get the bird? Once they get to the bird, how much courage do they have in going nose to nose with something nearly as big as they are, overcoming it and picking it up._
> 
> Desire, courage and perseverance are traits a pup is born with. They have them in sufficient quantity or they don't.


With our puppies we do two wing clipped pigeon tests. One is to put the pigeon in the puppy pen with all the pups. See who gets to the pigeon first, who won't give up when there is competition, who looks most aggressive to get to the bird. Second test is a wing clipped pigeon with each puppy individually. How long does the pup have interest in the bird, was he just following the pack in the first test, does he catch the bird, etc.


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## MillionsofPeaches

Ha G I don't know how the pups did but proofs prey drive since he came to our house is a little TOO MUCH! Trying to harness it daily!


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## FTGoldens

MillionsofPeaches said:


> Ha G I don't know how the pups did but proofs prey drive since he came to our house is a little TOO MUCH! Trying to harness it daily!


... and you wouldn't want it any other way!!!:no:


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## Claudia M

Swampcollie said:


> A live clipped wing pigeon will tell you a lot more than a wing can. Most puppies will exhibit some degree of interest in feathers but that is but one small facet of what you need in a field dog.
> 
> _With the live bird you can see and evaluate desire, courage and perseverance. How much do they want that bird? How much difficulty are they willing to overcome to get the bird? Once they get to the bird, how much courage do they have in going nose to nose with something nearly as big as they are, overcoming it and picking it up._
> 
> Desire, courage and perseverance are traits a pup is born with. They have them in sufficient quantity or they don't.


The only problem I see with that is the puppy if too young and not introduced properly will learn to eat the bird. 

I did not introduce a live bird with Belle until I saw how she was with a dead bird.


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## Radarsdad

Claudia M said:


> The only problem I see with that is the puppy if too young and not introduced properly will learn to eat the bird.
> 
> I did not introduce a live bird with Belle until I saw how she was with a dead bird.


You don't give them the chance to eat it. Anticipate what can happen and be prepared for it. What SC said was he wants to see how the pup will deal with a live bird. As in a wounded goose on a a hunt. Does the pup have the drive to push through. Clipped pidgeon also builds drive in the pup.


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## K9-Design

I know with Bally's litter we had them on live pigeons at 5 weeks. They were relentless even at that age. Swimming at 5 weeks. Daily car rides starting about that time too. He had a live chukkar at 9 weeks and live ducks at probably 4-5 months.


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## Claudia M

Radarsdad said:


> You don't give them the chance to eat it. Anticipate what can happen and be prepared for it. What SC said was he wants to see how the pup will deal with a live bird. As in a wounded goose on a a hunt. Does the pup have the drive to push through. Clipped pidgeon also builds drive in the pup.


Very true, that is why I said *properly introduced*. I have seen videos of knuckleheads who just let the dogs kill and munch on the birds and then go thru extensive training to try to get it out of the dogs. Some never made it far in tests because they got test smart and figured out they can eat the bird in the test because there is nothing you can do about it. 

I feel sorry for those dogs.


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## Bella Floden

Volhard Puppy Aptitude test is one I like using. (easily found on google)


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## Claudia M

jennwinning said:


> Volhard Puppy Aptitude test is one I like using. (easily found on google)


Thank you! That is the test that worried me. According to it I should retire or become a stay at home doggy mom since Belle scored a 5 if I remember correctly. Should have seen Belle with her first cripple! No fear or hesitation that you would expect with a dog scoring a 5 on the test.


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## Swampcollie

gdgli said:


> With our puppies we do two wing clipped pigeon tests. One is to put the pigeon in the puppy pen with all the pups. See who gets to the pigeon first, who won't give up when there is competition, who looks most aggressive to get to the bird. Second test is a wing clipped pigeon with each puppy individually. How long does the pup have interest in the bird, was he just following the pack in the first test, does he catch the bird, etc.


When I'm testing pups with the bird I don't want pack dynamics (learned behaviours) to enter into the equation so I don't put a bird in with the entire litter. I don't care if a pup will pound the snot out of its' sibling to get a bird away from it. 

I'm interested in seeing each pup interact one on one with the bird to determine how it individually reacts, without the influence of learned behaviours entering the picture. I want to know what each individual puppy is all about. What makes them tic?

I also do the Volhard test as well with the litter.


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## Radarsdad

Claudia M said:


> Thank you! That is the test that worried me. According to it I should retire or become a stay at home doggy mom since Belle scored a 5 if I remember correctly. Should have seen Belle with her first cripple! No fear or hesitation that you would expect with a dog scoring a 5 on the test.


Read that too all it did was help me look for weaknesses in a pup I got to watch and train for. I just considered it as a guide just like training videos. Nothing with a dog is black and white.


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## Alaska7133

I'm not that interested in the Volhard test. There are some issues I think with some parts. I think the test for the most part is ok, but there are some parts I'm uncomfortable with.

Here's the test:
1. Social Attraction - degree of social attraction to people, confidence or dependence. 
2. Following - willingness to follow a person. 
3. Restraint - degree of dominant or submissive tendency, and ease of handling in difficult situations.
4. Social Dominance - degree of acceptance of social dominance by a person. 
5. Elevation - degree of accepting dominance while in a position of no control, such as at the veterinarian or groomer. 
6. Retrieving - degree of willingness to do something for you. Together with Social Attraction and Following a key indicator for ease or difficulty in training.
7. Touch Sensitivity - degree of sensitivity to touch and a key indicator to the type of training equipment required.
8. Sound Sensitivity - degree of sensitivity to sound, such as loud noises or thunderstorms. 
9. Sight Sensitivity - degree of response to a moving object, such as chasing bicycles, children or squirrels.
10. Stability - degree of startle response to a strange object. 

The underlined items are parts that I think are either silly or not really necessary and don't really help you see what you are looking for. Where's the part about hearing the human voice and the puppies reaction? I think that is super important, yet it's not on the test as far as I can see. So tests are just that tests. Just one window in time and not a full perspective of a puppy's abilities or personality.


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## Swampcollie

Alaska7133 said:


> Where's the part about hearing the human voice and the puppies reaction? I think that is super important, yet it's not on the test as far as I can see. So tests are just that tests.


Reaction to a human voice is "Learned Behavior". 

The Volhard test or profile is about innate inborn traits. It is expressly NOT looking for learned behavior. It's about the temperament and personality the pup came with out of the womb. That's why the test is done in a location the pups have never been and performed by somebody the pups have never met. 

Granted there are some test elements that are not going to tell you much due to the breed of dog we're dealing with. The elevation test for example will have little or no effect on a golden (they're just going to hang there with a "Yeah, So What" look on their face). Try it with a different breed and the response will be VERY different.


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## Alaska7133

That's what I meant, the breed is so much a factor in the testing that are you really testing that puppy, or are you testing the breed?


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## gdgli

After some thought I have decided to weigh in on the Volhard Test. I have only bred one litter and I did have testers come over to test my puppies. Following are my feelings:

1. I don't care for it.
2. It can be misused. I know one breeder who does the test with each puppy until she gets her desired result.
3. I believe that you risk the evil of the self fulfilling prophesy i.e. the pup becomes the dog that you expect it to become.
4. I kept daily notes on my puppies and found that to be a lot more valuable in evaluating my puppies.
5. I have spoken to two well known Golden field people who feel as I do.
6. I don't know how the test was validated. I would like to see some data.
7. I think that the test is outdated.

I must add that I have kept close contact with all my puppy owners. I speak to them regularly and I know what is going on with each puppy. They are now 11 months old. Also, the testers told me when testing my puppy that he would be difficult to train and was very independent. He was the only one who got this comment. I have found him to be very different from the prediction.

Also, I had one smaller puppy in a group of larger puppies. So you can't tell me that this didn't influence his behavior. 

Should I ever breed again I will probably do the test again however I don't have much faith in it.

I think that the biggest influence on the puppy is the ability of the trainer. If you are familiar with behavior modification and are competent you won't have any problem with almost any puppy. Just start with a litter that has at least some field. Personally, I like to locate field lines only.


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## fourlakes

I have found the Volhard testing a huge help in placing puppies. Getting the pups tested alone, in a strange location, by someone they have not had contact provides different type of information than my observations of them. And I do observe carefully and keep notes about behavior. In my last litter one pup who had been very self confident turned out to be much more hesitant and definitely sound sensitive in the testing. Not a good candidate for a hunting home! When done correctly by an experienced tester I have found the results spot on from what I hear back about the pups as adults.
Just editing to add that there were some amazing birdy go-getters in my last litter as well. But the Volhard testing helped me get those pups to the right homes and other pups to great pet homes. I do not believe that all puppies from any litter no matter what the pedigrees and titles have the same dispositions and abilities. The testing is a help in sorting out the best matches of pups and buyers.


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## Tahnee GR

I have to agree with Jane-I have found the Volhard tests to be a great help and very predictive.

However, the tests do need to be done in an environment new to the puppy, by a stranger, and only once. Anything else compromises the results.

And I second the experienced tester part. I have the same friend test all of my puppies. She is a long time Golden person, works in tracking, agility and hunt, and has it down to a science.

Granted, I also use my observations but as Jane noted, sometimes there can be a surprise or two  but I have found that time bears those out.


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## Claudia M

Radarsdad said:


> Read that too all it did was help me look for weaknesses in a pup I got to watch and train for. I just considered it as a guide just like training videos. Nothing with a dog is black and white.


Once again, very correct. I think it is a good test that should be considered as far as the areas to work with your pup. 
Belle is the only dog that had this test so I can only use her as an example. I do not have any other notes on her to go by except the results from this test. 
Regardless of the results I believe that she was meant to be in our home just like the other two. Therefore my job is to train the dog(s) I have and to make it in such way that none will be left behind their potential according to my training time. Regardless of where we train all three get to run and get to improve with each time.


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## NicoleGold

Of the 3 goldens I have, the Volhard test was only done on one of them (Mosby). He scored I believe a 3 in every category (the breeders gave us his test sheets, so I could go dig them out to be certain). Honestly, I have no idea what that means. What I do know is that result of all 3s caused his breeders to place him with us - a young couple who were just looking for a calm, loving pet. 

As far as picking out a great performance dog, when we got Amos I asked his breeder to give us the puppy in the litter that was the most water crazy. We were lucky in that she lives in Houston, so even though it was too cold to put baby puppies in the water here in Maryland, she had a few 80 degree days where she could take the babies to a pond to play. One of the 5 puppies ran straight to the water and started swimming every time she took them there, and that is the pup we took. Is he water crazy as an adult? Absolutely. But I think (like what people were saying earlier in the thread) it is more about confidence. He is fearless, and has always been that way. He also is NOT a thinker, which has worked out really well in teaching him blinds and the hunt test game. You tell him to do something, and he says "OK!" (Whereas Mosby, Mr. All 3s, is quite the thinker.)


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## Alaska7133

NicoleGold,
Welcome to the forum, we'd love to hear more about your dogs and what you enjoy competing in and having fun with them.


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## TheZ's

_NicoleGold_, glancing at k9data it looks like you've got some very nice dogs there.


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## Bella Floden

Claudia M said:


> Thank you! That is the test that worried me. According to it I should retire or become a stay at home doggy mom since Belle scored a 5 if I remember correctly. Should have seen Belle with her first cripple! No fear or hesitation that you would expect with a dog scoring a 5 on the test.


I forgot to mention -- I try to test at least twice. Their response is kind of a snapshot. Belle could have just had a bad day, tired, or otherwise?


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## Claudia M

jennwinning said:


> I forgot to mention -- I try to test at least twice. Their response is kind of a snapshot. Belle could have just had a bad day, tired, or otherwise?


Thank you! I am not trying to be argumentative but wouldn't testing more than once be counterproductive? 

Like I said I do not put all my faith in it but do take it as an indication of what to work on. I also do not take it as a prophecy of some kind - a wise person said "train the dog you have" so having a glimpse of the dog you have at 8 weeks helps to train the dog you have. With Belle I always train for confidence. And that was from the first second at home. 

Do you select a different place and a different person with the different tests?


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## gdgli

Claudia M said:


> Thank you! I am not trying to be argumentative but wouldn't testing more than once be counterproductive?
> 
> Like I said I do not put all my faith in it but do take it as an indication of what to work on. I also do not take it as a prophecy of some kind - a wise person said "train the dog you have" so having a glimpse of the dog you have at 8 weeks helps to train the dog you have. With Belle I always train for confidence. And that was from the first second at home.
> 
> Do you select a different place and a different person with the different tests?


I know of someone who conditions her puppies for the test. Then it becomes a farce.


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## Claudia M

gdgli said:


> I know of someone who conditions her puppies for the test. Then it becomes a farce.


Could not agree with you more. Cheaters are everywhere. The more of them the more the test becomes irrelevant and obsolete.


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## Bella Floden

Nothing wrong with taking it more than once, and I let people know what they did or didn't the first time, but did or didn't the second time. I will repeat to double-check that a puppy really does have an issue with loud noises, especially when going to a family with kids or hunting home. In that situation, the pup might pair better with an adult couple where it is quieter and the pup may be more timid. (Just examples.)

Based on what I get, I let people know what the test results are when they look at the puppies so they can take that into consideration.

While I haven't had someone professionally come in and test, I have had other family members and friends do so by the instructions and just observe. I have a background in psychology, so I enjoy the scientific part of such things. 

I think it is pretty pathetic to "cheat" on the test. As someone who is always willing to take a puppy back, I would hate to place the pup with the wrong person then it doesn't work out and have to re-home the pup. It's just better to wait for the right match in the first place. 

I got a kick out of a previous litter when the family had first pick of the females, and they chose Ms. Alpha. I asked them, "You do know she's the alpha of the litter, are you sure that's what you want?" They thought for a bit and said yes. Since they had a dog before they had trained I let them take her. They said she was still "Alpha" a year later, but that they knew from the start to put more work into her and they were doing great and enjoyed her.

I hadn't really thought of it before, however it would be really neat to compare the puppy aptitude test results with one they take a year later to see how well it worked. I think there is 50% genetics and 50% environment involved. Don't use the tool as the only thing to select your pup on. Ask the breeder about the ones you are considering; they should know their personalities very well by the time they are ready to go.


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## NicoleGold

Alaska - do you have a post somewhere about how you ended up picking your puppy (what tests, if any, that you used)? I am trying to catch up!


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## Claudia M

jennwinning said:


> ......I hadn't really thought of it before, however it would be really neat to *compare the puppy aptitude test results with one they take a year later *to see how well it worked. I think there is 50% genetics and 50% environment involved. Don't use the tool as the only thing to select your pup on. Ask the breeder about the ones you are considering; they should know their personalities very well by the time they are ready to go.


That is a very interesting and intriguing thought!

I would think that the reason is given at that age though is to determine genetically where the puppies are before the environment kicks in.


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## Alaska7133

Nicole,
I didn't end up using a test that was online.
Instead I sat and watched the pups interact with each other and to see who was dominate or more of a biter or barker. All the pups got along very well and none were overly dominate. 2 were definitely less barking and biting. So I did something really simple. The breeder had a nice raw bone with meat on it. I set it on the floor and let a puppy pick it up and chew for awhile. I went to take it from the pup. All the pups were completely fine with me taking the bone. So that was a good thing for me. I threw a small item a few times to see how the pups chased. That helped me narrow down things a bit, 3 pups did well. One at a time I separated one pup from the others in put them in the open area outside the pens. I wanted to see how each pup explored their area. All 3 were great. So finally for me it came down to structure. I stacked each of the 3 pups I was interested in and selected the one that looked the best. That pup then I threw a frozen pigeon for. He was quite happy to retrieve a frozen pigeon for me and brought it to me when I called him. So I thought I had the best combination.


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## Swampcollie

Soooooo.... Where's the pictures?


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## Alaska7133

Here he is. Cody thinks he's going to be great. I'm not sure if Cody will be running the new little red Ferrari or I will. We might have a fight on our hands. He's super sweet. I need to take more photos, he's twice the size he was 2 weeks ago. The really nice and surprising part is: Lucy likes him.

Pedigree: Thistle Rock Kicking Up a Fuss

Swampcollie, can I assume you know Tom & Lynn Lane over at Thistle Rock? They are in your neck of the woods aren't they?


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## FTGoldens

The photos are great ... Riot's got it real tough!!!:no::


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## Swampcollie

I've known Tom for a long time! They live about 30 minutes west of here.


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## Alaska7133

Swampie,
I didn't meet Tom only Lynn. She's really on top of breeding and how to get healthy happy puppies. I know she's got 2 more litters on the way. I know she also breeds some with Benita at Thunderstuck. Nice dogs all around. This will be the first Thistle Rock golden in Alaska, which is kind of a surprise. I was also impressed with the Minneapolis area. Great road system.


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## rabernet

He is adorable! I'm so glad to see the pictures of him!


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## Maxs Mom

Nice looking puppy!!!! I so have puppy fever. 

I read through about how to pick and must say the pick the breeding sure worked for me. Gabby was one of 2 pups, one male one female. I never gave a second thought about anything she was mine from the moment she was delivered and I couldn't have asked for a better dog. 

I hope Cody turns out as well. Good luck!! He's adorable.


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## NicoleGold

Alaska7133 said:


> Nicole,
> I didn't end up using a test that was online.
> Instead I sat and watched the pups interact with each other and to see who was dominate or more of a biter or barker. All the pups got along very well and none were overly dominate. 2 were definitely less barking and biting. So I did something really simple. The breeder had a nice raw bone with meat on it. I set it on the floor and let a puppy pick it up and chew for awhile. I went to take it from the pup. All the pups were completely fine with me taking the bone. So that was a good thing for me. I threw a small item a few times to see how the pups chased. That helped me narrow down things a bit, 3 pups did well. One at a time I separated one pup from the others in put them in the open area outside the pens. I wanted to see how each pup explored their area. All 3 were great. So finally for me it came down to structure. I stacked each of the 3 pups I was interested in and selected the one that looked the best. That pup then I threw a frozen pigeon for. He was quite happy to retrieve a frozen pigeon for me and brought it to me when I called him. So I thought I had the best combination.


Doesn't sound like you would have gone wrong with any of the puppies in the litter! Thanks for the update


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## NicoleGold

Oh, and he sure is a cutie!


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## CAROLINA MOM

Congratulations, he's adorable..........
Beautiful pup.


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## FTGoldens

Yeah, yeah ... he's adorable and all that ... but do you have him doing in-house doubles yet?:wavey:


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## Alaska7133

I have been doing short puppy doubles in the house with toys. He's got it all figured out!

So far I have him whistle sitting and whistle recalls.
His sits and recalls are pretty darn good. 
He's learning to heel both sides.
I use a platform for retrieves. He's learning all about it.

Today we went to field class. I took Riot instead of Lucy and we went to the beginner class instead. People were pretty surprised when he retrieved just fine without me touching the long line and responded the the recall whistle and sit whistle. So when one guy asked me how I got him started so young, I told him it's always easier on your second dog. The first one you screw up, the second one you have a plan. I say that now, he's only 11 weeks, check back with me when he's 11 months.


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## MillionsofPeaches

LOL 11 weeks was when I walked my butt right up to that very well known derby trainer at a field trial and said, "I am really sure I have a good dog and do you train goldens or just labs?" He told me to come back to him in the fall and I did! He still jokes that I had some balls and I was nuts to think that at 11 weeks my dog was a bada$$. 

Ha ha, looking back, what was I thinking?? He was just so fast at learning compared to what I was used to I just figured he was super dog! It is funny to think how naive I was but it worked out, I just kept training him like he was a future champion. 

point, just keep training Riot like he's a champion and don't think about what he'll be like at 11 months! Just ASSUME he'll be great!


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## hollyk

Alaska7133 said:


> I have been doing short puppy doubles in the house with toys. He's got it all figured out!
> 
> So far I have him whistle sitting and whistle recalls.
> His sits and recalls are pretty darn good.
> He's learning to heel both sides.
> I use a platform for retrieves. He's learning all about it.
> 
> Today we went to field class. I took Riot instead of Lucy and we went to the beginner class instead. People were pretty surprised when he retrieved just fine without me touching the long line and responded the the recall whistle and sit whistle. So when one guy asked me how I got him started so young, I told him it's always easier on your second dog. The first one you screw up, the second one you have a plan. I say that now, he's only 11 weeks, check back with me when he's 11 months.


Second dog definitely gets the benefit! 
So happy that you're having fun.


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## gdgli

But MoP


Proof is a WICKED BADA$$. And smart.


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## Alaska7133

Proof is bad a**! Totally!

Now finding a pro to help me is a lot tougher.


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## MillionsofPeaches

Stacey, I will admit I wouldn't know what in the world to do if it weren't for the help I've gotten from many people. Is there any field pros that are out that way? Are there any serious field amateurs that you can work with?

Meanwhile, you just keep training Riot like the champion he is!


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## krazybronco2

MillionsofPeaches said:


> LOL 11 weeks was when I walked my butt right up to that very well known derby trainer at a field trial and said, "I am really sure I have a good dog and do you train goldens or just labs?" He told me to come back to him in the fall and I did! He still jokes that I had some balls and I was nuts to think that at 11 weeks my dog was a bada$$.
> 
> Ha ha, looking back, what was I thinking?? He was just so fast at learning compared to what I was used to I just figured he was super dog! It is funny to think how naive I was but it worked out, I just kept training him like he was a future champion.
> 
> point, just keep training Riot like he's a champion and don't think about what he'll be like at 11 months! Just ASSUME he'll be great!


and just so everyone knows who said you need to get your rear out here to see someone (that was me)and then ended up taking to J? fyi it wasn't to see the pro it was because i talked to Connie Cleveland for almost an hour at the Open then called MoP to let her know what happened and she canceled everything to come to talk to connie and got pretty much got the cold shoulder from her but as we all see it ended up working out.


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## Alaska7133

There are a few pros up here. I've been taking Baron's classes but he lives so far away. He's not a field trial guy, more hunt tests. I have a few friends I can work with, but they also live farther than I like. So most weekends I head to the valley and work with my dogs out there.


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## gdgli

Alaska7133 said:


> Proof is bad a**! Totally!
> 
> Now finding a pro to help me is a lot tougher.


My opinion:

You are going to have to learn an awful lot. You will have to train a lot by yourself. Careful with whom you train ( something I learned the hard way). Don't forget, you know your dog better than anyone else. And you can always ask on this forum for opinions.


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