# High fat and high protein in dog food?



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I don't think many would consider protein above 20 and fat above 15 "high". Personally I wouldn't consider a food higher protein until it reaches above 30% protein and fat at 20. I like our dogs' food to be in the mid to upper 20s (24-28 or so) for protein and fat in the mid teens. For us, I see bigger poops with higher carb food.


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## aerolor (May 27, 2011)

I would agree with P&MM. I've just checked the fat and protein of the food my 6 month pup. This is a large breed puppy food and the fat content is 18% and the protein 28% I prefer to have a food with a good protein content from actual "meat" rather than derivatives or soya protein. I believe fat is important for dogs, but obviously it will also put on weight. When I feed fresh meats the motions are definitely a lot smaller. Also I think the better quality the food, the less you actually need to feed. I'm not a big fan of carbohydrates and fillers for dogs.


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## AnimalLuver (Oct 13, 2011)

I gotta agree with the two above posts.

The whole debate on high protein being bad for pups has been argued the opposite way in recent years. And as far as I understand:

High protein levels in dog foods are dangerous when the protein is coming from grains. Dogs are carnivores and are not built to digest grains, and when fed high grain protein as a pup, especially large breeds, they can develop problems.

High protein levels in dog foods that come from meat sources is not dangerous. Dogs being carnivores are built to digest protein from meat. Protein from meat is what a dogs body needs!

As for the fat levels. Dogs do need fat in their food. And again, it's best if it's animal fat (or fish fat..whichever). Some foods that have higher fat levels, usually require to feed less of it. But of coarse, based on the food you choose, if the fat levels are high, watch your pups weight, if it increases (and you're not trying to put weight on him/her) feed a little less, or switch to a lower fat food.

I think the whole "puppy food", "adult food", and "senior food" thing is a sales gimmick. I think the quality of the ingredients is more important than this label of puppy vs adult vs senior. I've been told that there is absolutely no need to ever feed a puppy "puppy food" especially with large/giant breed dogs.

I luv talking about dog food!  lol


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## aerolor (May 27, 2011)

There are so many different brands of dog food available these days, something for everyone - and I agree that the marketing is very clever and compelling. The best thing I think folks can do is to read the labels for the nutritional analysis and pick from the best you can afford. Usually the ones with the better ingredients are the more expensive ones (but not always so you have to look at whats inside). 
I always choose a puppy food for my pups because primarily because the adult food is a "maintenance" diet and the puppy food is supposed to be for "growth". Because the choice is available I choose it, although I feed fresh food as well so in that respect it doesn't really matter and any distinction there might be becomes less valuable. 
Love talking about dog food as well Animal Luver :wavey:


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

AnimalLuver said:


> High protein levels in dog foods are dangerous when the protein is coming from grains. Dogs are carnivores and are not built to digest grains, and when fed high grain protein as a pup, especially large breeds, they can develop problems.


I'd like to see a source on this "grain protein is dangerous" claim. It sounds like the kind of thing that gets said on a dog food website, but I'd like to see if it's based on any kind of fact.

And dogs have evolved to eat human leavings over the last ten thousand years, so they're not really carnivores.


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## aerolor (May 27, 2011)

I think modern dogs are still more carnivores than omnivores and although they will eat a variety of foods, and can obtain protein from vegetable/grains, it is not an ideal as a primary source of protein and nutrition. Protein from grain is not as effectively utilised by dogs, or as easily digestable, as the protein obtained from meat. I don't think grains are dangerous, but when there is a choice I would always feed animal protein rather than grain, soya etc.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

aerolor said:


> I think modern dogs are still more carnivores than omnivores and although they will eat a variety of foods, and can obtain protein from vegetable/grains, it is not an ideal as a primary source of protein and nutrition. Protein from grain is not as effectively utilised by dogs, or as easily digestable, as the protein obtained from meat. I don't think grains are dangerous, but when there is a choice I would always feed animal protein rather than grain, soya etc.


I don't really disagree with the idea of feeding dogs primarily meat proteins, but I always question claims like "Protein from grain is not as effectively utilised by dogs, or as easily digestable, as the protein obtained from meat." What makes you say that?


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## AnimalLuver (Oct 13, 2011)

I'd like to take credit for this information I'm about to state, but I got this explanation from another forum I'm a part of. In my own words, a dogs body is not built to digest grains at all. A dog will eat grains when they're in the food you put in their bowl, but you would never find a dog eating grains by choice. Canines are obligate carnivores, meaning nothing but meat is needed in their diet to meat nutritional satisfaction.

Many dog food manufacturers use high protien grains in the food to up the percentage of protein in the food. These are the "high protein" dog foods that can cause issues, because the protein is not digested (nothing "grain" is actually digested in a dogs body, their bodies are not built to digest grains), I suppose this is more due to "lack of meat protein" than too much "grain protein". Maybe saying that they're "dangerous" was overkill, but "inappropriate for canines" would make more sense?

Anyways, this was a response from a member from another forum, she has a lot of knowledge with canine nutrition, and canine anatomy  very well respected member of that forum

"Dogs may scavenge leaving from humans, however if given a choice they will eat meat. No dog goes into a corn field or other grain field and chows down. Dogs do like to eat a few veggies & fruits on occasion, however they will eat meat instead if given the choice. Dogs have different enzymes in their digestive system then humans, they also have shorter digestive tracts. They aren't designed to process grains. Their teeth & jaws aren't designed for chewing, grinding grains & fibers, they are designed to rip & tear meats and chew on bones.
Just because dogs have been living around humans for years doesn't mean they have been changed genetically from how nature made them.
Any good study on dogs will give people enough knowledge to know dogs are canines, dogs need meats & bones, dogs use & process meats & bones, that they process the nutrition from meats & bones effectively but they do not from grains."
"I also wanted to mention also that over the past years as grains have increased in dog foods there has also been a huge increase in skin issues, excess shedding, some cancers, kidney/bladder stones, kidney disease, liver disease, dental issues, runny eyes, allergies, paw chewing, digestive issues,chronic ear infections among other issues.
Up until 20 -25 years ago most people still fed high meat diets especially in the country areas. .These measts came from the butcher, hunters,leftover from the family dinner (not as much fatty, deep fried,processed meats years ago) Also foods such as Purina and IAMS/Eukanuba contained a lot more meat and little grains. The "grain thing" has been a pretty recent additive and one that has been highly done by the big dog food companies..Nestle, Proctor & Gamble, Colgate/Palmolive, Mars, Del Monte....in order to cheapen the production of the food and mass produce it as cheaply as possible. None of this has done any favors to our dogs."

Hopefully this helps


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