# Female Goldie



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Why does she need to be unspayed?


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Just incase I would like to breed her later. Why?


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Your best bet will be craigslist or similar. Rescues don’t place unaltered dogs. Ressponsible breeders only place unaltered dogs in homes that are well know or committed to competing with that dog and always on contracts.


----------



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Reputable, careful breeders will typically spay their bitches before they place them in order to be sure they don't end up in a puppymill situation.


----------



## JulesAK (Jun 6, 2010)

Strange, maybe this post was edited? I thought I saw where the OP was looking for a female specifically to breed.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Yeah well I'm not looking to breed her now I want to at least have her a year before I would even try to breed her. So that she would be comfortable with her surroundings and with me>


----------



## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

I will be the guy to post this, even though this may be taken the wrong way. I am not coming at you so to speak, but coming on here asking for what you are asking the way you are asking it leads me to post this. It's really meant to be educational as it sounds like you are really unaware of the Golden Retriever as a breed and unlike many other breeds you shouldn't be just breeding 2 dogs together.

You don't just breed Goldens on a whim. There are A LOT of health issues in Golden Retrievers and need to do health clearances (4 of them) at a MINIMUM and should be doing a DNA panel roughly 5 different things. Plus you need to have AKC information so you can research the health of the dogs behind the dog you wish to breed. This will let you know if there are serious health issues like NCL, Hip, Elbow, Heart and eye issues.

Reputable breeders, because of this, will never just let anyone have a dog from them that is intact with full AKC registration so that any puppies would be able to be registered unless that breeder agreed to co-own the dog with you or you're a known reputable breeder.

Point being, you just shouldn't be getting a Golden to maybe on a whim decide to breed down the road. Randomly back yard breeding Goldens is a sure way to hurt the breed long term if people just breed just because. A lot of these breeders have bred for decades to produce healthy puppies/dogs and have takesn decades to learn how to know what dogs will help the lines and help correct faults in structure.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

I get what you are saying let me expound. I have been around all sorts of animals since I was old enough to walk. I have seen breedings helped deliver babies of multiple animals (dogs, cows, horses, etc.). I currently have a Golden that is a Service Animal I trained him and got him registered myself. My Aunt and Uncle have been breeding dogs since I was old enough to remember. My mom has bred dogs for years before she had kids. I have deeply researched Goldens especially before buying them. I know of the diseases that they are prone to and the cancers. Thats why if I did infact breed Goldens I would have them screened for health problems, cleared by a vet, and DNA tested. I wouldn't and am not just breeding on a whim. I love animals especially Goldens. I would make sure that I was bettering the breed and if I wasn't then I wouldn't even consider breeding. Also I am trying to find an adult to adopt before I find a puppy so that i could offer a dog a great life that might not have one before I would buy a puppy who anybody is willing to buy. Sidenote I'm only 14 but I have trained dogs, helped breed and deliver dogs, broken horses, been taught to ride horses by a jockey, my grandpa raises cows and I have delivered 3 or 4 calves. I feel like I am very experienced with animals. Even breeding them, so it wouldn't be on a whim.


----------



## Jmcarp83 (May 4, 2018)

You mention being 14, if you would like to many years down the road breed golden retrievers, why not link up with a breeder in your area who shows? You are young enough to earn the trust and involve yourself in the show world, so somewhere down the road if breeding is something you want to do, you could do it with the help of your mentor- a breeder.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

If you’re 14, you are probably very savvy about the internet and research. Dig in deep to www.ofa.org, Golden Retriever Club of America, and K9data.com.

Stop looking for a year old female as it won’t get you where you want to be anyway. Nobody is going to sale a year old dog that is worth adding to the gene pool. Breeders are keeping the very best for themselves so if you see a young dog avilable, first it will by altered and second the breeder is not keeping for a reason that means it is not a breeding quality dog.

You want to shop for a breeder who can also be your mentor. Think about what your goal is beyond puppies. Do you want to do obedience or complete in 4-H? Do you want to show in junior showmanship or in the breed ring like Westminster? Do you want to do tracking or search and rescue? Do you want to do hunting tests, dock diving or barn hunt? Once you have a goal, then find a breeder that is successful in that discipline. Someone who breeds, selects puppy prospects and consistently has success. Reach out to that breeder and see if you can buy a puppy and be mentored. That is the best, easiest and most successful way to become a responsible enthusiast/breeder.

The way you are speaking now and phrasing your request would scare off any reputable breeders. Also, there is not a bunch of young Goldens needing homes. There is an avalanche of puppy shoppers right now and even before COVID a lot of rescues have had waitlists (some several years long) for young Goldens.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Oh, and your parents will need to be very involved. As a minor you legally can’t sign contracts.


----------



## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

You are young. Find a mentor, someone who is willing to let you learn. You can compete in juniors, and learn hands on all that it takes to breed carefully and responsibly. It can cost thousands of dollars to whelp and raise puppies if anything goes wrong. Learn all that you can now and wait until you are older. You don’t want to start out by finding a poorly bred Golden now, breeding her underaged and adding to the backyard breeder problem that we already have.


----------



## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

I was around your age about 5 years ago when I got my boy. I had less experience than you do - he was my first dog, my parents had never had a dog before, I had only ever pet sit dogs for neighbors and people in town. So I'm prefacing this by saying that I do understand where you're coming from/the position you're in. I think your experience lends you a certain advantage, but if you're genuinely interested in getting involved in golden retrievers and doing so ethically, I would recommend you take a couple steps back. Think of breeding as the very final destination, one you may or may not reach depending on how the journey goes.

Get involved in something dog-related outside of your family-related dog stuff. When I turned 16 and was able to drive by myself, I started volunteering at a dog training place. The training aspect of dog ownership interests me personally, so that was the direction I went with. Three years later, I teach multiple classes, do private lessons (occasionally), help assist with aggression/reactivity cases, and help run any trials/events we have. You have a golden now - get involved in something. Start training him for rally and put a title or two on him.

I have a friend who was interested in conformation handling when she was younger. She ended up becoming an AKC junior handler with goldens and Icelandic Sheepdogs. She aged out of Juniors, but now handles semi-professionally (I think) and works for/is mentored by a respected golden breeder by her. She's been involved in the dog world for a long, long time and has yet to breed a litter herself (to my knowledge anyway). 

That kind of involvement shows dedication and seriousness to a breeder (imo) and encourages the breeder to trust you. It also allows you to network and meet more dog people - everyone knows everyone in the dog world (especially in the golden retriever community!). There's a breeder on this forum whose daughter attended vet school with one of my agility instructors, and we are on opposite ends of the coast. The more people you meet and the more friendships/relationships you build, the more opportunity comes to you.

I'll repeat what everyone else is saying: find a mentor. There is so much that goes into breeding dogs (before the actual dog is even bred) that can't be learned online or can only be poorly learned through experience - things like evaluating pedigree, learning what good conformation/structure is and looks like, for starters. That would be an amazing starting point before you breed.

There is far more demand than supply of well bred golden retrievers, so the breed needs more good breeders. In 20 years, kids your age and mine will be the next set of good breeders - but please don't rush it. You have a lot of time to produce a litter and do it well. A reputable breeder would not sell a quality puppy to you right now, for all the reasons already mentioned. If you breed a litter now, you would be starting off with a low quality bitch, which would make it infinitely harder to get a well bred bitch in the future.


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> I will be the guy to post this, even though this may be taken the wrong way. I am not coming at you so to speak, but coming on here asking for what you are asking the way you are asking it leads me to post this. It's really meant to be educational as it sounds like you are really unaware of the Golden Retriever as a breed and unlike many other breeds you shouldn't be just breeding 2 dogs together.
> 
> You don't just breed Goldens on a whim. There are A LOT of health issues in Golden Retrievers and need to do health clearances (4 of them) at a MINIMUM and should be doing a DNA panel roughly 5 different things. Plus you need to have AKC information so you can research the health of the dogs behind the dog you wish to breed. This will let you know if there are serious health issues like NCL, Hip, Elbow, Heart and eye issues.
> 
> ...


I couldn’t agree more! Thank you for saying this


Patriot the Golden said:


> I get what you are saying let me expound. I have been around all sorts of animals since I was old enough to walk. I have seen breedings helped deliver babies of multiple animals (dogs, cows, horses, etc.). I currently have a Golden that is a Service Animal I trained him and got him registered myself. My Aunt and Uncle have been breeding dogs since I was old enough to remember. My mom has bred dogs for years before she had kids. I have deeply researched Goldens especially before buying them. I know of the diseases that they are prone to and the cancers. Thats why if I did infact breed Goldens I would have them screened for health problems, cleared by a vet, and DNA tested. I wouldn't and am not just breeding on a whim. I love animals especially Goldens. I would make sure that I was bettering the breed and if I wasn't then I wouldn't even consider breeding. Also I am trying to find an adult to adopt before I find a puppy so that i could offer a dog a great life that might not have one before I would buy a puppy who anybody is willing to buy. Sidenote I'm only 14 but I have trained dogs, helped breed and deliver dogs, broken horses, been taught to ride horses by a jockey, my grandpa raises cows and I have delivered 3 or 4 calves. I feel like I am very experienced with animals. Even breeding them, so it wouldn't be on a whim.


All of this experience is great, but your dogs need to be OFA tested. They need all of their health clearances, etc. and even then, I would not breed them. There are so many responsible breeders that have worked very hard to earn their titles. Just looking for any female Golden seems irresponsible to me. Most responsible breeders will not sell you an adult dog that is not spayed as well. There are so many goldens out there, and I don’t see the need for more from someone who just wants puppies from their dog. I don’t mean any disrespect with this, I just notice this problem a lot.


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

livduse said:


> I couldn’t agree more! Thank you for saying this
> 
> All of this experience is great, but your dogs need to be OFA tested. They need all of their health clearances, etc. and even then, I would not breed them. There are so many responsible breeders that have worked very hard to earn their titles. Just looking for any female Golden seems irresponsible to me. Most responsible breeders will not sell you an adult dog that is not spayed as well. There are so many goldens out there, and I don’t see the need for more from someone who just wants puppies from their dog. I don’t mean any disrespect with this, I just notice this problem a lot.
> 
> ...


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

I actually have been looking into being mentored by a breeder near where I live. I actually train dogs in a variety of things especially service, emotional, and therapy training, as well as obedience. I was just looking into breeding because I have had a lot of people including a couple with 3 Goldens ask me if i was ever going to breed him because they would be interested. I actually have been talking to the breeder I got my boy from. There are several puppies out there that have lined up from reputable breeders with breeding rights. I greatly appreciate all of your advice. I am by no means trying to be a backyard breeder. I love Goldens thats why I would never want to defect the breed only better it. By the way I wasn't trying to brag about all that I have done with animals earlier I just wanted to make sure you didn't think I am trying to be a backyard breeder. If I would ever breed I would for sure have every test done to insure that the pups would be great dogs. 
My boy Patriot is a trained service, emotional, and therapy dog hes almost a year old. People asked if I would ever breed and I just started looking into it. I love dogs and would like to start a career as a dog breeder and trainer.


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Patriot the Golden said:


> I actually have been looking into being mentored by a breeder near where I live. I actually train dogs in a variety of things especially service, emotional, and therapy training, as well as obedience. I was just looking into breeding because I have had a lot of people including a couple with 3 Goldens ask me if i was ever going to breed him because they would be interested. I actually have been talking to the breeder I got my boy from. There are several puppies out there that have lined up from reputable breeders with breeding rights. I greatly appreciate all of your advice. I am by no means trying to be a backyard breeder. I love Goldens thats why I would never want to defect the breed only better it. By the way I wasn't trying to brag about all that I have done with animals earlier I just wanted to make sure you didn't think I am trying to be a backyard breeder. If I would ever breed I would for sure have every test done to insure that the pups would be great dogs


Would you mind me asking where you got your boy from? Does that breeder test her dogs hips, elbows, eyes, hearts, etc. before breeding and so on?


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

They are a breeder in Oklahoma and yes they have their vet check all of the following. They have been breeding Goldens for 20 years. I was actually able to meet the mom and dad Goldens and they were quite literally perfect.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Patriots mom was an English Cream and his Father was a Carmel.
Patriot is also AKC Registered.


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Patriot the Golden said:


> Patriots mom was an English Cream and his Father was a Carmel


English cream is not bred by most responsible breeders. I met Gus’s mom and dad as well who are very high ranking show dogs. My breeder’s dogs go to Westminster, akc national championship, etc. I’m not saying this to be rude, I’m just putting it in perspective. I’m sure your boy is beautiful, but breeding is very serious.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Oh boy. I think this could be a good learning experience for you. I am betting things are not quite what you believe they are. Can you find your boy’s parent’s registration names or numbers and post them here?

The language you are using usually indicates BYBs or puppy mills. Keep in mind you can do something badly for a long time too.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Yeah I can find there registration and I didn’t mean his mom was English cream I mean she’s a Darker Golden NOT a English Cream. But yeah I can post their registration or actually I can put a picture of them if it would help.


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Patriot the Golden said:


> Yeah I can find there registration and I didn’t mean his mom was English cream I mean she’s a Darker Golden NOT a English Cream. But yeah I can post their registration or actually I can put a picture of them if it would help.


Both would be great.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Here is the mom and Patriot and one of his brothers and their registration numbers one sec and I’ll find the dad pic she sent me


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Here is the father
I’ll post a better picture of the mom.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Here’s the mom


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Okay, do you know what health testing Patriot’s parents are supposed to have?


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Patriot the Golden said:


> Here is the mom and Patriot and one of his brothers and their registration numbers one sec and I’ll find the dad pic she sent me





Patriot the Golden said:


> Here is the mom and Patriot and one of his brothers and their registration numbers one sec and I’ll find the dad pic she sent me


Any purebred dog can be registered with the akc regardless of whether or not they have their health clearances. I didn’t find any info in the OFA database or k9data on the parents. I attached a few pictures of Gus’s parents and relatives below. I also attached the dad’s information. It shows that he was OFA tested and is clear for everything. The mother is as well. This is what you should expect to find with a responsible breeder


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

They gave me a list of all of the testing each parent received and I know when we looked it up and contacted their vet they had all of the up to dat test on hip elbow eye cancer prone etc the list was like 10 things


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

I’d have to go find it in Patriots files
My vet said he was very well bred and I should consider putting him through championships and tournaments


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

But do you guys really think people breeding dogs will mess with the breed? Just an honest question I am starting to think maybe I should have ever bred dogs?


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Patriot the Golden said:


> But do you guys really think people breeding dogs will mess with the breed? Just an honest question I am starting to think maybe I should have ever bred dogs?


I’m just giving my honest opinion. It takes years and years to develop a responsible breeding program. These people work hard to preserve the breed. People who have no business breeding only create issues. Also, we never got to see a picture of your boy. Here is my boy, Gus, he is one.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Omg he’s gorgeous


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

This is Patriot


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

What if someone had Golden’s and bred them but had all th pups altered and didn’t sell them with breeding rights? Do u think that would be ok not that I am gonna do that AT ALL just curious on your thoughts?


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Patriot the Golden said:


> Omg he’s gorgeous


Thank you!


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Patriot the Golden said:


> What if someone had Golden’s and bred them but had all th pups altered and didn’t sell them with breeding rights? Do u think that would be ok not that I am gonna do that AT ALL just curious on your thoughts?


I would still say no, unfortunately many puppies that don’t come from responsible breeders get dumped at shelters, and that takes up more room that doesn’t need to be used. There are so many dogs that need loving homes already. I said this earlier, but I only believe in getting a dog from a responsible and reputable breeder or adopting from a rescue.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Patriot is actually my first pure bred dog. 
All of my other dogs were rescue dogs and I would train them and get them properly socialized and then people would ask if they could buy them and I would sell them for not much bc it was just a hobby. I’ve had a lot of wolf mixes with Siberian huskies and malamutes to but I really like Golden’s always have


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

So, I don’t know what paperwork you received but it 100% is not the health certifications that should be there.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

LJack said:


> So, I don’t know what paperwork you received but it 100% is not the health certifications that should be there.


What do you mean?


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

In fact if Patriot is about a year old his mom was bred way underage at about a year old herself.


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Patriot the Golden said:


> Patriot is actually my first pure bred dog.
> All of my other dogs were rescue dogs and I would train them and get them properly socialized and then people would ask if they could buy them and I would sell them for not much bc it was just a hobby. I’ve had a lot of wolf mixes with Siberian huskies and malamutes to but I really like Golden’s always have


I love rescues! I think they’re great! I’ve had a rescue Bernese mountain dog as well as one from a breeder. I also had a rescued mixed breed and two goldens from a breeder before Gus. Having a love for goldens is great, but I don’t think breeding is a wise choice at all.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

I thi


LJack said:


> In fact if Patriot is about a year old his mom was bred way underage at about a year old herself.


I think his mom is 3


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

livduse said:


> I love rescues! I think they’re great! I’ve had a rescue Bernese mountain dog as well as one from a breeder. I also had a rescued mixed breed and two goldens before Gus. Having a love for goldens is great, but I don’t think breeding is a wise choice.


Yeah I guess I’ll just stick to training. I wonder how breeders got to where they are now though that had to have started somewhere


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

LJack said:


> So, I don’t know what paperwork you received but it 100% is not the health certifications that should be there.


Agreed


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Patriot the Golden said:


> Yeah I guess I’ll just stick to training. I wonder how breeders got to where they are now though that had to have started somewhere


They do have to start somewhere, but it takes years and years to gain enough knowledge to even think about beginning to breed. Stick with training for now, and find a mentor. They will be able to help you understand the breed and what truly goes in to producing healthy, happy, beautiful dogs.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Yeah I guess that’s what I’ll do but I might quit training altogether. I enjoy it but I don’t really have time for 5 and 6 dogs any more now that I’m doing dual credit classes.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Wait wait I meant stop training 5 and 6 dogs not any dogs at all 
Side question do you think if I bought two puppies from different litters say from the breeder you bought Gus from do you think it would be safe to breed then


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

His mom just turned 2 about 3 weeks ago.
Here she is - Pedigree: Finley Smith II

Here is his dad - Pedigree: Tucker Mckee Smith

If you take their registration names or numbers and put them in on www.ofa.org, you will see there are no health certifications for them. Here is an example dog for what it should look like. Advanced Search | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO and this is her K9Data page so you can compare. Pedigree: AM CH/BIS BBX INT'L CH/UKC CH Wildfire's Denim, Diamonds 'N Dreams

And here is a video tutorial/walkthrough





The breeder you got him from would not be a good one to ask to mentor you. If they have been breeding 20 years without appropriate health certifications that means they don’t care or they don’t know. Either reason is not a good one. As you can see in your few hours on the internet, the information on breeding responsibly with health certifications in place is relatively easy to find.

Don’t give up on your dreams, we need more young, passionate and ethical people in the breed. You are right that everyone has to start somewhere. You have a young dog you can work with to get your foot in the door. Get him trained, get active in your nearest Golden Retriever or Kennel Club and complete. I can’t say how excited I would be to to be approached by a bright young person who wants to do right by the breed and be active. The key here is not to put producing puppies first. Put your love of the breed, training and completing first. That would be a very good way to catch the attention of a good breeder who would be willing to mentor you and place a very well bred puppy with you.


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Patriot the Golden said:


> Wait wait I meant stop training 5 and 6 dogs not any dogs at all
> Side question do you think if I bought two puppies from different litters say from the breeder you bought Gus from do you think it would be safe to breed then


I think breeding should be completely off of the table for now. The breeder I bought Gus from does not allow just anyone to breed their dogs. It’s a complicated process to explain, but very few get breeding rights. If you just want another puppy, you could definitely start looking into responsible breeders. A breeder is more than just two dogs they buy and use to produce some puppies. They devote their lives to their dogs.


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

LJack said:


> His mom just turned 2 about 3 weeks ago.
> Here she is - Pedigree: Finley Smith II
> 
> Here is his dad - Pedigree: Tucker Mckee Smith
> ...


You couldn’t have said it better!


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Patriot the Golden said:


> Side question do you think if I bought two puppies from different litters say from the breeder you bought Gus from do you think it would be safe to breed then


So, I breed when I want a new competition partner snd I have yet to even consider purchasing a boy. When I breed I look at what my girl needs strengthened and then find the very best boy for her I can regardless of where he lives. Only once was that a boy who lived in the same state (Az) and more than once the boy was in Canada. If I had a boy in my backyard, I probably wouldn’t use him because he likely would not be best boy for my girl. There are wonderful stud dogs all across the country, so why would I limit my ability to improve on what I have?


----------



## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

My Lab is due in 4 days so I'm approaching your desire to breed from the aspect of the actual whelping and caring of the litter. Do you know how much work a litter of puppies can be (if you want to do it correctly) and how expensive it can be - particularly if there's a health issue with momma dog or the puppies?

There is so much that goes into properly caring for a litter. It is an extremely intense and busy 8 weeks with many sleepless nights. Puppies need specific care, stimulation, and appropriate stressors (through toys, activities, sounds, etc.) at each stage of development that occurs in the first 8 weeks. I'm lucky in that I'm caring for the litter as a volunteer with a service dog organization so I don't have to also research potential puppy buyers and deal with that whole side of things, which I can only imagine adds another layer of complexity and work. I also have access to 24/7 vet support that I can contact at any time if I think something is a little off and if I need to get momma dog or the puppies medication or treatment it's paid for by the service dog organization. I also have a network of other volunteer breeder caretakers that I can ping with questions or for help of any kind. (If one of my kids has a school event then one of my fellow volunteers will pop over and watch the litter for me, just as I do for them when they have a litter. Private breeders don't always have this luxury.) 

Before breeding you have to really think about the amount of work and cost that goes into a well cared for litter. It's an amazing experience but I wouldn't enter into it lightly.


----------



## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

Do you know the registered names of your dogs parents?


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

I posted the registred names in the thread. But yes I know how time and money consuming it is. I have bred and helped breed my Aunts and Uncles Catahoula Curs. They have been breeding for like 16 years and their dogs compete in Champion ships. I know that their dogs are health registered because their vet did that. I also neurologicaly stimulate the pups from day one. I know how and have raised a few litters. So I know what I am doing. I know how time consuming it is. For Example one of the pups had a respiratory infection from fluid in his lungs and the mom couldn't do any thing for it and it coulded nurse. So I had a lot of sleepless nights for 4 weeks, slept on the couch, watched him all hours of the day (benefit from being homeschooled). I bottle fed him until we weaned him. He was the only male of the litter. So I was desperate to keep him up and going. And now he is one of their champion sires in dock diving, and nosework, and agility. they live States away though so I don't see them as often as I used to, but Blue( the pup) will walk up to me (my aunt swears on her life he remebers me even though when i saw him again it was a year later) and hes a cuddle bug for sure. So yes I know about dogs and how to breed them. BUT I wouldn't want to falsify the breed in any way, only better it.


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Patriot the Golden said:


> I posted the registred names in the thread. But yes I know how time and money consuming it is. I have bred and helped breed my Aunts and Uncles Catahoula Curs. They have been breeding for like 16 years and their dogs compete in Champion ships. I know that their dogs are health registered because their vet did that. I also neurologicaly stimulate the pups from day one. I know how and have raised a few litters. So I know what I am doing. I know how time consuming it is. For Example one of the pups had a respiratory infection from fluid in his lungs and the mom couldn't do any thing for it and it coulded nurse. So I had a lot of sleepless nights for 4 weeks, slept on the couch, watched him all hours of the day (benefit from being homeschooled). I bottle fed him until we weaned him. He was the only male of the litter. So I was desperate to keep him up and going. And now he is one of their champion sires in dock diving, and nosework, and agility. they live States away though so I don't see them as often as I used to, but Blue( the pup) will walk up to me (my aunt swears on her life he remebers me even though when i saw him again it was a year later) and hes a cuddle bug for sure. So yes I know about dogs and how to breed them. BUT I wouldn't want to falsify the breed in any way, only better it.


Unfortunately, it is much more difficult than that. Even if you knew everything about breeding and raising puppies, you don’t have dogs that should be bred. Your boy’s parents do not seem to have proper health clearances, and no responsible breeder would sell you an intact female with breeding rights. They also would not just let you use a female for breeding. You mentioned this is your first golden, and I think you are getting way ahead of yourself. You also mentioned that you don’t have time to train all of your dogs anymore. This is definitely not the right choice in any way. If you really love the breed, you could consider getting another dog from a rescue or responsible breeder. I’m sorry to say this, but you are definitely not a responsible breeder. Why don’t you find a responsible breeder who will help you learn more about the breed? It would be a great learning opportunity!


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

There is a saying about learning that is particularly powerful for me and that is, “I don’t know what I don’t know”. It is a companion to the Albert Einstein quote, “The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.”
I also love this graphic.








I am thinking you’re in the hazard phase and honestly that is a dangerous place for you to be, especially with a year old puppy from a less than ideal background that you were unaware of.

Embrace that you are in the beginner phase. There is nothing wrong with that. Everyone Has to start somewhere. Find a good mentor, someone who has verifiable health certifications and is successful with their dogs in the competitions you want to compete in.

Remember that the amount of time somebody has been doing some thing doesn’t matter if they haven’t moved beyond beginner or hazard. It is more common for somebody to do something poorly for a long time then to become a recognized expert in that field.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Patriot is MY first Golden but I have trained LOTS of other Goldens... and I just had a new foal come in so I need to focus on him for now anyway because foals take alot of time and energy to train and become saddle broke. I am in now way saying that Im a know it all expert. I was just simply explaining that I have had experience with breeding dogs as well as training them and lots of other animals including wolf mixes which are gorgeous by the way. So thats why I said from the begining that I would breed later on. But then again not every body is as fortunate to be able to buy $1200 to $2000 dogs like Patriot or Gus. Also back in the 1900s and late 1800s is when show dogs really flourished. But where do you think those dogs came from? People back then just considered it a dog. They bred and trained them as a companion and hunting dog not a show dog. People bred and sold their dogs people bought those dogs. Show dogs had to come from somewhere.... and it was probably from one of the people that bred dogs for hunting and companionship, not having everything perfect and being showed around for competition. Thoughts?
(by the way I hope this does not come across rude in any way, if it does Im sorry I dont mean it to!)
Also if the English Cream Goldens are not bred right then why are there professional breeders breeding English Creams?


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Patriot the Golden said:


> Patriot is MY first Golden but I have trained LOTS of other Goldens... and I just had a new foal come in so I need to focus on him for now anyway because foals take alot of time and energy to train and become saddle broke. I am in now way saying that Im a know it all expert. I was just simply explaining that I have had experience with breeding dogs as well as training them and lots of other animals including wolf mixes which are gorgeous by the way. So thats why I said from the begining that I would breed later on. But then again not every body is as fortunate to be able to buy $1200 to $2000 dogs like Patriot or Gus. Also back in the 1900s and late 1800s is when show dogs really flourished. But where do you think those dogs came from? People back then just considered it a dog. They bred and trained them as a companion and hunting dog not a show dog. People bred and sold their dogs people bought those dogs. Show dogs had to come from somewhere.... and it was probably from one of the people that bred dogs for hunting and companionship, not having everything perfect and being showed around for competition. Thoughts?
> (by the way I hope this does not come across rude in any way, if it does Im sorry I dont mean it to!)
> Also if the English Cream Goldens are not bred right then why are there professional breeders breeding English Creams?


All breeders do have to start somewhere, but you need to start when you have devoted years and years to learning, if ever. Gus’s breeder sells their puppies for $3000 and they’re worth it because you won’t end up paying as much down the road. They have devoted their lives to bettering the breed. All of their dogs are health tested, compete in conformation, etc. They produce very successful show dogs, therapy dogs, etc. I actually don’t even show Gus, he is a companion and therapy dog, but just because he’s not a show dog doesn’t mean he shouldn’t come from a responsible breeder.


----------



## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Maybe this has not been crystal clear...but if you do not know what you are doing, and want to just take two pure bred goldens (or any breed for that matter) and put them together to sell some puppies NO you should not be breeding. You're also very young, and there is both financial and ethical responsibilities that you take on the second you breed a female. Do you know what progesterone testing is? Prenatal care and supplements? Quality food? Whelping supplies? What if something goes wrong and mom needs a c-section? That alone costs thousands of dollars, so who will pay for all of that? Not to mention puppy food when they are old enough, toys, supplies etc. AND even before you breed a litter these are the health tests needing to be done on both breeding dogs:

OFA Hip clearance AFTER 24 months old $300-$500
OFA Elbow Clearance AFTER 24 months old $300-$500
Cardiac Clearance by a Cardiologist *NOT a pet vet* $200-$500
Eye Clearance every year by an Ophthalmologist *NOT a pet vet* ~$40

^Those clearance are a MINIMUM of what needs to be done prior to breeding, not to mention a full genetic panel to rule out genetic diseases like ichthyosis, DM, NCL ($140-$200)

Outside of that, you don't have the right experience to do it well. You also don't seem to know and/or understand the history of the golden retriever breed, what it is bred to do, conformation, structure or anything more than knowing there is a market for them. Poorly bred goldens are more predisposed to health and temperament issues, hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, seizures, eye disease, SAS and more...are those things you are willing to take responsibility for as a breeder?

Your dog came from a breeder (some would call a backyard breeder) with no health testing, and underaged parents. That breeder is not considered ethical or reputable, and you won't be either if you jump into breeding right now.

Here is the GRCA Code of Ethics that clearly states what any breeder in the US must do to be considered ethical and reputable, you should take a look: GRCA Code of Ethics - Golden Retriever Club of America

Also, on the GRCA website you can use the breeder referral option to find REPUTABLE and ethical breeders in your area, that may be willing to mentor you and help you learn. It will be a long road though, because you have so much to learn.

Again, your best best is to find a reputable mentor who will teach you, let you learn about the breed, about structure, about proper care, grooming, training etc, before you ever help with a litter of puppies.

EDIT: I used to be a Middle School ELA Teacher, and not a single one of my 14 year old students would be mature or responsible enough to even think about becoming a dog breeder.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Thats why I said i wouldn't be breeding them now, and yes I know about all of the following tests and before I would breed I would have both dogs tested. I also sell trained and saddle broke horses for up to $8000 a horse. So I would take care of the costs. About understanding the breed though maybe i didnt clarify that I looked into their history i know where they originated and how who they first belonged to. I know why they are used in comformation, show, agility, nosework,etc. I actually have a Golden that is a Service, Emotional, Therapy, Nosework animal. And I am finishing him up on search and rescue. I still have a lot to learn and I am not going to be breeding right now. Maybe I should have Clarified in the begginning that I am looking at the cost of another female Golden before I would just buy one. Then again I might not even breed them at all anymore.
And um actually the Golden retriever became a thing because of the cross breeding of a Wavy Coated Retriever and a Tweedmouth Water Spaniel. this was done by LORD TWEEDMOUTH. This resulted in a Golden pup. If I remember right his name was Golden Boy. Then they started breeding him with Wavy Coated Retrievers and Tweedmouth Water Spaniels( before they went extinct) and then they would take they golden pups and breed them. Somewhere down the line Irish Setters were thrownin the mix. But they were bred as GUN dogs and COMPANIONS. Now they have greatly execelled in the show world to. But hey were BRED to be able to stand against the cold weather in Scotland WHERE they originated. They were also BRED as a gun dog to retriever water fowl (ducks, goose, pheasants) and they excelled at it due to their webbed paws, their sleek but powerful body, ability to swim, and a soft mouth (means they didnt tear they meat they were retrieving like most dogs).So yes they are great for conformation and different things but what I just stated above is what they were ORININALLY BRED to do.


----------



## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Is your dog titled in any venue? I find it hard to believe that at one year old he is fully trained in all of those areas. To prove your training you should enter him in obedience trials, scent work trials and rally. That way you can at least prove that your claims are credible and then you'd have a titled dog...which would look better for you when trying to get a reputable breeder to sell you a quality puppy. Here is a list of AKC titling events you could be training for right now: Get Started in Dog Sports and Events – American Kennel Club

You say that you are a dog trainer...most accomplished dog trainers put titles on their dogs to prove their training and to be credible. If you have all of these claims of being a training and having a fully trained dog at one year old, it should be easy for you to obtain some titles on him. 

You say you "looked into the history of the breed", but that is not enough. Like above posters have said, you need to find someone deeply involved in the breed to teach you in depth history of their lines, structure, temperament differences, what they look for etc...

You cannot get a pet vet to look over an animal and say "OK this animal is healthy enough for breeding" because that is not enough, and pet vets are not specially trained to look for eye or heart abnormalities, so you will need to find a specialty hospital or find an OFA health clinic near you to obtain the clearances (again after 24 months old). 

The members who have responded to your posts are only trying to help, because all of us truly care about the betterment of the breed, and don't want to see you turn into another backyard breeder. Ignorance on the matter is one thing....but now that you KNOW all of this information on health testing, and know that you have much more to learn and that you need to find a mentor first....if you STILL choose to breed after this...well, that would be just downright disappointing, and it will show other breeders that you did not care to learn and chose to do it anyway.


----------



## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

Hi Patriot, you've been given a lot of good advice and you have a lot of zest to become a great dog trainer and breeder and WE NEED THAT. I started off (am still starting I guess), very similar to you, but I made a lot of mistakes. I grew up in the middle of nowhere. I broke and rode horses, had 4H goats and sheep. We bred those animals and I loved it. Ever since I was a kid, I'd always wanted to be a dog trainer/breeder. My breed of choice was the Border Collie. I got my first one when I was 11 from a backyard breeder. This dog was amazing, loyal, smart, athletic, tough as nails. But she had pretty severe dog reactivity and resource guarding issues. At the time, because of the "ITS HOW YOU RAISE THEM" spiel, I thought that I had done something wrong to make her that way. Regardless, I really wanted to breed her and I wanted to do agility with her. We built a course in the back of the property and in the meantime, we looked around for a male.

I was only about 12 at this point and this dog meant the world to me, I had no idea what "breeding quality" was. So fastforward to when I was 13, she reached 2 (I at least knew they had to be 2), and we found a breeder willing to sell us a puppy. This breeder had dogs from show stock, had champion dogs, and was active in the dog show community. So, we figured this would be a great way to get me into the dog show world, because it really was all I wanted to do. Now, where I live, I had no one to mentor me in dog shows. And seeing as I couldn't drive yet, my parents definitely weren't going to take me anywhere. Furthermore, my dad had just started vet school and my mom worked full time, so there was no one available to do anything in my house. By mid 13 years old, my first dog got hit by a car. She survived, but died a couple weeks later of what the vet suspected was a blood clot in her lungs. It was devastating. We were going to pick up my new puppy and I got to pick between two left in the litter. I still didn't know anything about temperament testing and perhaps put too much blind faith in the breeder.

Our new puppy was so handsome and I was determined to raise this one and not make him aggressive. But this was not to be and by two years old, you couldn't brush him or touch him without risking getting bit. I came to find out only later that the New Zealand/Australian show lines have very aggressive dogs, but during this time, nobody was talking about it because the dogs were winning in the ring. Anyway, I STILL thought I had done something wrong with him. I couldn't figure out why this dog I had trained and could do a course, work, etc, grew up to be so aggressive towards me. By the time I was 15, I had saved enough money to buy a dog on my own. I found a breeder that focused on temperament. Even though I didn't really understand the genetics of temperament, I knew something was wrong. I didn't know what, but I did know something. 

So I found this breeder, talked to her, specified exactly what I wanted. We communicated through emails and such and I eventually got a new puppy. This puppy was an absolute saint. Everything about this dog is wonderful, except that she is, anatomically, not ideal. She has decent drive, and some work ethic (she loves the livestock), but she wasn't near as biddable or willing to learn as my first two. But I did get what I wanted, which was a very sweet, patient, kind dog to everyone involved. She and I even did therapy work. Well I still wanted to breed, still not nearly educated enough, but was going off to college soon, so it wasn't going to happen. My dad had just finished vet school when I was 17 and we talked extensively about spaying and neutering both of them, but eventually life got busy and it was put on the backburner. 

This, in the end, was not good. Without me there to make sure no one ended up bred, my female got out and our male got to her. We talked about aborting the litter/spaying her, but I decided, selfishly, that I wanted a puppy from them. I had no experience and no idea how his temperament was going to affect this litter and didn't think about the consequences of selling a puppy to a family that could end up like him. Anyway, I went home and started commuting so I could be with my dog. We built the whelping box, I thought I read all the books, my dad was a VET so what could go wrong right? Xrays showed 5 puppies. 

So, 4 come naturally, and after hours of waiting and oxytocin, we made the call in go in for the 5th. My dad had just been getting his repro career started, but he was terrified of doing an emergency c section on my dog. Something that, on a Sunday morning at 4AM, would easily have been 3000 dollars at a clinic, a cost that I was unprepared for. 5th puppy was long dead and my female didn't accept her litter for the first few days after the surgery. Finally, everything is going well. I'm reading the books on socializing, trying my best. I'm learning that you can really tell individual puppy personalities and I felt as if the stud dog's breeder had to have known he was the way he was.

ANYWAY, now comes time to sell the puppies and I wanted to keep one. I had to figure out the whole AKC thing myself, how to market (as I had no idea and really these dogs had no redeeming qualities except my bitch, as she is so sweet, but that's not how to market a Border Collie), meanwhile trying to balance my undergraduate work. My puppy of interest was also the one that I was worried would be too much for another owner and I kept her. She did exhibit some reactivity and I was terrified that the other owners would return their puppy's because of the same issues I had with my male. I kept in contact with all of them, and one did end up fairly dog reactive, but he was a saint everywhere else and I was close friends with the girl who owned him.

From this point on, my desire to be involved with dogs didn't dampen, but I realized that there was so much more to this than I could gander. I dedicated myself to learning pedigrees, what I wanted to do with Border Collies, how I was going to find my next, what was important to me. After actual years, I decided I wanted to import a dog from ISDS lines in Europe. I wanted to breed Border Collies to work stock as they'd been bred for generations. I started working with a stock dog instructor, reading the books, and learning. I had to dog break my own stock and practice with my own dogs. I visited Ireland and watched how they worked their livestock dogs, talked to some breeders about what they did to produce the top notch working dogs they do. And that's where I'm at today. This has been a 13 year journey for me, and I still haven't started where I wanted with the Border Collies. I just now have a plan. The next step is getting the money for the plan, as importing and training is expensive. 

I also have a young Golden that I'm very interested in starting in the show ring. I have so much support this time and I know that everything will go right. I made a lot of mistakes due to overeagerness and inexperience. We all learn from our mistakes, but for the sake of future puppy owners and our future dogs, we owe it to them to be breeding only to improve, whether that means in the conformation ring or in the field. I think you're on the right track, but there is always more to learn and you'll be so impressed once you have a mentor.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

No I was just giving you an overview i didnt want or think I needed to post and hour long post on where Goldens came from, their deep history, line, structure, temperment, and what they look for to prove to you that i know about Goldens. I am not saying I am gonna breed now I am just askin questions getting info I have plenty to do to keep me bussy until then. Oh and by the way Patriot is a registered Service Animal and Therapy animal. all of the others I am finishing up on getting him started (paperwork, training, mentors, etc). So sorry for that little misunderstanding😊. I am going to research more plus My pup is only almost a year I would wait until he was two to breed him anyways. So for now I was just looking into info. Thank you guys alot really helped, also very inciteful of what other people are looking for in Golden Retrievers. I still need to find a mentor, during the summers I am all over the place and usually every state but home. i guess thats the typical teen. But I really apprieciate all of your time and opinions. I definetley would never want to become a backyard breeder. 😊


----------



## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

Emmdenn said:


> Is your dog titled in any venue? I find it hard to believe that at one year old he is fully trained in all of those areas. To prove your training you should enter him in obedience trials, scent work trials and rally. That way you can at least prove that your claims are credible and then you'd have a titled dog...which would look better for you when trying to get a reputable breeder to sell you a quality puppy. Here is a list of AKC titling events you could be training for right now: Get Started in Dog Sports and Events – American Kennel Club


I find it strange that each time the op talks about her dog it has something else it's is trained for. First service and emotional, then added therapy if I'm not mistaken and now search and rescue. I am fairly certain that a 1 year old pup would not be trained in therapy and service already done and starting on search and rescue. Usually those aren't even started until 1 year old.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

No I trained him in service and therapy/ emotional support and i got him registered. I AM starting to WORK with him on the rest. ONCE he turns 2 or 3 I will officially put him through a course for the rest and register him 
so HE is a Service Aminal MY SERVICE ANIMAL for RESPIRATORY PROBLEMS as well as emotional support for myself and other people. I dont really need him as a service animal as my doctor says my respiratory doc said i am improving by leaps. So he is an emotional support/therapy dog for kids in the hospitals. He is in training with search and rescue so its really only three things and one he is in training and i wont actually put him through a course until he is 2 or 3. You understand now?


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Patriot the Golden said:


> No I trained him in service and therapy/ emotional support and i got him registered. I AM starting to WORK with him on the rest. ONCE he turns 2 or 3 I will officially put him through a course for the rest and register him
> so HE is a Service Aminal MY SERVICE ANIMAL for RESPIRATORY PROBLEMS as well as emotional support for myself and other people. I dont really need him as a service animal as my doctor says my respiratory doc said i am improving by leaps. So he is an emotional support/therapy dog for kids in the hospitals. He is in training with search and rescue so its really only three things and one he is in training and i wont actually put him through a course until he is 2 or 3. You understand now?


Bottom line is, unfortunately your dog came from a breeder who has been unethically breeding with no health certifications, etc. Breeding would be very far off in your future. There is a lot you need to learn about the breed and what goes into producing quality puppies. We all say these things because we care, it’s been clearly said by everyone on this forum, you are not ready to breed by any means, even if it’s a year or two in the future. Also, Gus is a certified therapy dog, but all dogs must wait until they are at least one to become certified under any major organization.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Yep I think I got that vibe from everyone on here.


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Patriot the Golden said:


> Yep I think I got that vibe from everyone on here.


We only say these things because we care, don’t get discouraged. There is so much to learn. We’d love to see updates on Patriot’s training. This forum is a great place to get positive feedback, however this is just an issue many golden owners feel strongly about. If you ever need help or advice in the future, definitely reach out!


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

yep, Sure.


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Patriot the Golden said:


> yep, Sure.


Breeding is extremely serious, that is why people who care about the breed react so strongly. You’re so young, take some time to really learn about the breed and find some time to talk to breeders, maybe attend a show or event to watch, etc. Having a love of dogs and a desire to learn is wonderful, I hope you put that to good use!


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Yeah I think I am just gonna drop the idea I was just looking to do it because people wanted some of his puppies but I guess that wouldn't be a good idea anymore, Considering your responses. But I have other things going with horses rn until I go to training to become and EOD TECH. I'll just stick to training animals and breeding horses because I was mentored and trained extensively for yeasr about riding and breeding horses from a Jockey and retired Jockey, as well as a horse trainer and dog trainer. I really love horses to though so I guess thats my thing right now.


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Patriot the Golden said:


> Yeah I think I am just gonna drop the idea I was just looking to do it because people wanted some of his puppies but I guess that wouldn't be a good idea anymore, Considering your responses. But I have other things going with horses rn until I go to training to become and EOD TECH. I'll just stick to training animals and breeding horses because I was mentored and trained extensively for yeasr about riding and breeding horses from a Jockey and retired Jockey, as well as a horse trainer and dog trainer. I really love horses to though so I guess thats my thing right now.


Good luck with all of your training! Keep us updated with everything, we’d love to see pictures and hear about how things are going!


----------



## 153330 (Dec 29, 2016)

I am an old git now (46), but I clearly remember how passionate I was about animals at 14. I also remember (still feel) how hot and angry I felt when know-nothing adults basically squashed my dreams.
When you first posted, I didn't realise how young you were. Now I know, so I wanted to let you know that everyone here welcomes you, and WANTS you to succeed. 
It might not feel like it right now, as you've had a lot of big lessons in a short period of time, but everyone here wants to spend their time online enthusing about golden retrievers with other enthusiastic people - like you :0)
This forum is an absolute GOLDMINE of useful information. You've got amazing experts here right at your fingertips, and no question is too newbie or dumb. Please do keep posting and asking (and sending pictures of Patriot).
The only 'old git' thing I'm going to say, which you're probably going to hate because it sounds condescending, is that I just want you to learn from _our_ mistakes - there is no need for you to fall into the same traps we all did. 
You'll still make your own mistakes - we all do - but you're clearly intelligent and articulate. 
As everyone here has said, find yourself very well qualified mentors/teachers in all aspects of your life and you can avoid some of the painful and embarrassing things we've all done when we were younger. (Breeding your dogs would fall into that category.)
Stay positive, keep open to learning - and tell us more about Patriot? What methods did you use to train him, and what can he do?


----------



## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

I grew up on a farm. I understand a lot of what your saying. I also have a son that competitively teams ropes. I know the horse world, the breeding, the expense, the training. I want to caution you that the horse world and the golden retriever world are different. Golden enthusiasts tend to be picky. We want what is best for the breed. Horses and even some dogs are bred for a purpose. They perform the purpose and you have successfully completed the task. Golden's become part of the family. They have a way of becoming so much a part of everything we do that EVERYTHING MATTERS. I'm not saying people don't love their horses, trust me I know they do, but it's different. 

If your breaking colts, or breeding and training them, you are probably getting paid monthly for each horse in your care. If your breeding them and selling them as done prospects you have a long time before you get a pay check for the work your doing. Horses take a long time from birth to trained. Like horses you sometimes don't really know what you have with a Golden until it is several years old. You can think you have the perfect dog for a few years and then one day it starts to limp. It can develop cancer, eye disease, NCL is one to look up. There are so many things. 

My son grew up with Golden's. His first true hunting companion was Duke, my golden. He trained him and then we sent Duke to a pro. My son became a licensed hunting guide in two states and Duke was his guide dog. My son learned to call and won several duck calling competitions. He is serious about everything he does. He took 100's of parties and everyone complimented him on his dog. He earned big tips because of his dog. He guided on our farms and was hired to manage other farms. We had many offers to breed Duke and considered it once. We took Duke in to have the OFA certs done at 7 years old. He passed hips but his left elbow showed a problem. Our vet felt it was from working. Our vet also has FC/AFC champion labs and knew the love and devotion we all had for Duke. Our vet had hunted over Duke. The breeder that wanted to breed Duke was willing to overlook it. I was not. I loved Duke but the only reason I would breed him was for a puppy. My gut told me not to do it. 

Two years later Duke has been diagnosed with some serious health issues. He's kept in top form and other then the limp you would never know. I am so glad I didn't breed him and add to the genetic problems in Golden's. He is a terrific dog, but there are many terrific dogs and some stay healthy much older then 9. 

My son dove into the hunting world and did a ton of research. He switched to labs due to health issues, ease of finding the attributes he wanted, who he trained with... He now has two labs. His male lab has earned quite a reputation in the hunting world. My son bought an FC/AFC bred female from our vet last year. She is in field training with a pro now. He and our vet plan to breed her in 3 - 4 years to his male. This entire plan was devised long before the breeding she came from even took place. She is a puppy from the last breeding our vet will do from his line. She will be the first dog my son ever breeds. He will be 30 years old by the time it happens. No litter of puppies will cover the amount of money he will have invested in the pair before the breeding ever takes place. He will do it because he loves his dogs and thinks he has something special. The combination of what the male and female bring to the table was laid out long before she was even bred. His plan is to keep a male from the breeding. He has two people that I know of that have already said they will take a puppy whenever it happens. This is how someone is mentored.

I'm not discouraging you from getting into breeding. We will need breeders in the future that care about the dogs. I am not saying my son won't make a mistake. It worries me that he has an intact male and female, I'm being honest. He has done everything right up until this point. He has worked for it and learned. He has paid the bills and put the sweat into training. He has traveled and earned the reputation in the world he wants to be in. At 16 he would have bred Duke in a minute if he didn't have a mom that had been buying Golden's and paying the bills for 30 years.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

With training dogs I approach them in their realm of the world. I use a holistic approach. Most people want to just tell their dogs to sit and expect them to sit. This is hard for the dog to understand unless you have a certain pitch on different words. This can cause the dog to mental exhaust itself trying to please you. Some people dont realize how loyal dogs are. If you are aggravated at them, show signs of distress, or act angrily towards them they pick up that vibe. if they feel as if they never please you some dogs can go into a depression. With my training approach you start training them at 8 weeks. I do NOT use words like sit and down. I use hand signals. I don't have to say a word to Patriot but if i do that one signal he will immediatley obey. The hand signals allows the dog to understand what you want instead of them trying to figure it out. This helps dogs accel at what your training them in. I like to call it the language of DOGGISH. If I use a word it is a conformation word. This word is usually German, Belgian, or Dutch, the reason is say for instance your dog jumps on someone and your conformation word is good boy. Well he obviously isnt being a good boy but if the person he/she jumps on says good boy/girl thats their conformation they are doing something good so then you cant discipline your dog because they have no idea what they did wrong. So for instance Patriots conformation word is Shiza. No body is gonna go around saying ohhh shiza. So you avoid the problem of confusing your dog. His negative conformation word is Iltez. So if he does somethihng wrong or bad, or whatever you want to call it it is misbehaving if its something they ARE NOT supposed to do. All I have to do is say Iltez. One he knows hes done something wrong, two he know hes got to go to his kennel for 10 minutes. But above all of that he knows I am not pleased, that RIGHT THERE is enough punishment really. I train different dogs all the time. I even train them at the same time. each one knoes their name. If I say your name you look at me I give you your signal you do it and stay unless I release you you stay. Training them together makes them pay attention, and improves their self discipline. I only train together twice a week other than that it is one on one with the dogs. 
His service dog training allows him to be able to alert me before a respiratory difficulty. (I have respiratory probs so he is my service animal for that). His signal or warning is he will stop abruptly sit wherever hes at and lift his paw and touch my right calf. 
Emotional and therapy support he can do a variety of tricks to cheer kids up they love all of his tricks and he loves doing them for them. He can also comfort and what I mean by that is if i signal him comfort he will stop what he is doing and go to that person and put his head on their lap and lean into them. This normally causes people o pet him. It is proved that when you pet your dog or any dog it releases stress, and usually if youve kept it all pent up once that stress startes to release it causes emotions and normally you cry. When people cry it releases stress. So he can help people get through depressions, and emotional stress. 
Nosework he isnt registered I probably wont even try to get him tested until hes at least 3. If you would spray a shirt or jacket with perfume or anything really and go hide it when he is no where close to see where you put it and then give him something with the same scent he will find it. To signal that he will bark if he cant lay down in a certain area or he will simply lie down and look at me. 
Search and Rescue he isnt registered either but I will eventually test him and get him registered when hes confident at what hes doing. But we train in agility through tight spaces, crawl spaces, jumping over high fences and whatnot, and this involves nosework to so I would register him in nosework before search and rescue. 
Personal Protection. Patriot has always been very protective. Because of his drive to protect he accells at PPT(personal protection training) Hes is not quite done with this. Personal Protection dogs dont have to be registered and I only do it because because of his protectiveness. He can go from Sweet little boy whos so good, to Im gonna eat your face of in seconds. If he picks up on something about a person he doesnt growl he simply grunts. He has done this since he was a puppy if he doesn't like someone or what they are doing he grunts and watches very carefully. Then I am aware hes watching and ready for any signal I would do. He has always been very protective of me and anybody in my family. Which I found odd since usually he is usually easy going. He is the first protection dog I have trained but we still have a long ways to go before I would say hes done training in this area.
I was looking into the whole breeding thing because alot of people I know asked me if I was ever gonna breed him because they love him and would buy one of his puppies in a heartbeat. But given all of the info Ive just gained I am thinking Ill just stick to horses and training because I DONT want to to anyting wrong that could damage the breed.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

LOl I'm sure you know the meaning of these words translated...


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

What do you mean??


----------



## 153330 (Dec 29, 2016)

Er... It's not good.





LMGTFY


For all those people who find it more convenient to bother you with their question rather than search it for themselves.




lmgtfy.com




Did someone else suggest this particular confirmation word to you, to use with your dog? If so, that wasn't a kind thing to do.


----------



## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

My father is German, moved to the US with his parents (my Oma & Opa) when he was a baby. I grew up with him speaking German to my sister and myself (though sadly we didn’t learn as much as I wish we had) but we DID learn the word “shiza” which is a profanity used in the German language.


----------



## 153330 (Dec 29, 2016)

Litez is less problematic. It's a French word for 'bed'.


----------



## 153330 (Dec 29, 2016)

Patriots obedience sounds pretty good - do you use positive rewards? With Scott, we get him to do the thing we want him to do using a food lure (many repetitions), then we introduce a confirmation word when he does it right (many repetitions) - we use 'good' but a lot of people use a clicker. We train in lots of contexts - the garden, the park, in the house, by the rail station, down at the shops - to make sure the behaviour is really well 'set'. 
Any time he fails we don't make a big deal of it - we just say 'uh-uh', end the lesson, and go back to the basics the next time. Always setting him up for success rather than failure.
He has really good recall, and can do a pretty impressive emergency stop. I'll try and get a video of it for you tomorrow...
I also volunteer for our local Search and Rescue organisation Surrey Search & Rescue (Surrey SAR) as a 'misper' (missing person). I decided not to enroll Scott into their dog training program because of the degree of committment (training and testing), and the success criteria. If a qualified search dog fails a test just once, they are disbarred from active searches until they requalify through multiple round of retesting. SAR dogs are relied upon to be 100% successful in searching for lost people. They search methodically in quadrants. A missed person is very much more likely to end up a dead person (exposure etc). Search and rescue is a very, very serious undertaking, and my children were not even allowed to act as mispers by themselves until they were 18, let alone dog handlers on the SAR team. 
It's a very noble undertaking, but don't underestimate the committment in time money, training, travel, heartache and the emotional outcome of the results of most missing person searches. They do not usually have a happy ending.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Yes I use lots of positive affirmation. I don’t usually send hinto husband kennel unless he is out right just not listening to a word I say. Also yeah someone mentioned the word shiza as a good affirmation word what does it mean?


----------



## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Patriot the Golden said:


> Yes I use lots of positive affirmation. I don’t usually send hinto husband kennel unless he is out right just not listening to a word I say. Also yeah someone mentioned the word shiza as a good affirmation word what does it mean?


It is a German swear word.


----------



## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

HollyB said:


> Patriots obedience sounds pretty good - do you use positive rewards? With Scott, we get him to do the thing we want him to do using a food lure (many repetitions), then we introduce a confirmation word when he does it right (many repetitions) - we use 'good' but a lot of people use a clicker. We train in lots of contexts - the garden, the park, in the house, by the rail station, down at the shops - to make sure the behaviour is really well 'set'.
> Any time he fails we don't make a big deal of it - we just say 'uh-uh', end the lesson, and go back to the basics the next time. Always setting him up for success rather than failure.
> He has really good recall, and can do a pretty impressive emergency stop. I'll try and get a video of it for you tomorrow...
> I also volunteer for our local Search and Rescue organisation Surrey Search & Rescue (Surrey SAR) as a 'misper' (missing person). I decided not to enroll Scott into their dog training program because of the degree of committment (training and testing), and the success criteria. If a qualified search dog fails a test just once, they are disbarred from active searches until they requalify through multiple round of retesting. SAR dogs are relied upon to be 100% successful in searching for lost people. They search methodically in quadrants. A missed person is very much more likely to end up a dead person (exposure etc). Search and rescue is a very, very serious undertaking, and my children were not even allowed to act as mispers by themselves until they were 18, let alone dog handlers on the SAR team.
> It's a very noble undertaking, but don't underestimate the committment in time money, training, travel, heartache and the emotional outcome of the results of most missing person searches. They do not usually have a happy ending.


I don't know what's it's like today but back around '07 a friend of mine did the search and rescue thing with her golden. It's like a boot camp and the training was $10k and it was free unless you quit or missed 3 calls in a row for duty. If called and you said you couldn't go, you were off the call list and billed for the training and this was for volunteer SAR. And failing any of the testing meant it was a minimum of 6 months of more training and testing before certification. The SAR training in the Delaware/Maryland area was intense.


----------



## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Patriot

I would like to encourage you to pursue your goals. You seem bright and will learn quickly.

My story
I have had dogs for 35+ years. I always looked for field bred dogs, I hunt. I have only bred one litter. I am not a breeder. I always looked for healthy field dogs in the pedigree, not necessarily highly titled. One day I acquire a field bred puppy. I immediately recognize that she is special. I breed her and produce very talented pups. I keep one. And with the help of friends I learn about breeding.
My point is this: Everyone must start somewhere. Just because you are new does not mean that you can't breed a nice litter. Do not be discouraged. If you have a good dog you will know it. Just be advised, it won't be easy.

PS The pups are doing nicely.


----------



## 153330 (Dec 29, 2016)

I think we're trying to encourage Patriot to be responsible, and get an education on many topics - biology, genetics, ethics etc., - before any dogs are bred. 
By all means encourage a young person's interest in GRs and bettering the breed through responsible breeding practices, but please also be wary of encouraging impulsive youthful decisions.
How can Patriot know this pup is healthy or special without health testing and titling? Of course this dog is a 'good dog' to Patriot - all of us think our dogs are 'good'.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Patriot the Golden said:


> ........ I would make sure that I was bettering the breed and if I wasn't then I wouldn't even consider breeding. ....


I would ask that anyone who uses this statement -bettering the breed- think about what they are actually saying. Why would a novice be able to better the breed? What makes a person imagine they can BETTER a breed? It's one of those catch phrases that is on examination makes the one who voices it look either dumb or over confident in their abilities. Hopefully one would at least make an attempt to better the bitch being bred, but the whole breed? I would posit that a good breeder's job is to preserve the breed, not better it, which means change it.
And even bettering one's bitch- that takes decades of learning and observation on what things might be prepotent and in what scenario. .. certainly one cannot use the CL bitch with the BYB dog in one's yard or one's neighbor's yard and hope to do more than head down a road of mediocracy.


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Whoa. Hold on I need to refill my coffee.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Well, darn Anney- I was hoping you had something to add to this thread....


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Sorry should have chosen my words better I was meaning what you said.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Have you reviewed the pedigrees for Patriot’s parents that I purchased for you and the K9date links I created so you could research?


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I have LJack-
I dk if Patriot has any idea what a gift you gave her. These pedigrees from AKC cost money, so you invested $44 in her dog's history. Plus they cost the time to input them into k9data. I hope she thanked you- because even if she never breeds him, she can today know his history, and also, in the spirit of your generosity, I went back through both pedigrees and put DOBs and stud book issue dates, and checked OFA on every single dog. If there are no clearances on k9data, there are none on OFA. I noticed that the stud book issue dates tell us that it is a rare animal in this pedigree not bred underaged. For example - dam was born 4/18 and her stud book entry is dated 11/19- which tells us even if breeder was super timely and registered the litter the minute they were born she was bred probably at 15 months or so. This is generally the case through both sire and dam pedigrees. Any titles are on k9data- there are none for more than 5 generations. (The reason I am pointing all this out is so you can learn the detail you need to learn should you decide to become a breeder, Patriot. I'm not being unkind but trying to teach you) 
This brings me to the photo posted of the sire of your dog. I am curious about him. Where did you get this picture? Do you have others? I can't say I have ever seen a dog with this sort of pedigree whose ears are show trimmed. I'd love to see more pictures of this dog if you can supply them. I'd be particularly interested in standing photos. Thank you!


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Patriot the Golden said:


> Yeah I think I am just gonna drop the idea I was just looking to do it because people wanted some of his puppies but I guess that wouldn't be a good idea anymore, Considering your responses. But I have other things going with horses rn until I go to training to become and EOD TECH. I'll just stick to training animals and breeding horses because I was mentored and trained extensively for yeasr about riding and breeding horses from a Jockey and retired Jockey, as well as a horse trainer and dog trainer. I really love horses to though so I guess thats my thing right now.


Please don't quit being interested in Goldens, or breeding. Just learn all you can. There is much to know, before you jump into a litter... and your boy may be the best companion ever but his pedigree isn't a safe one to build on, so try to find a good breeder to mentor you (where are you? I may know someone who may be willing to help you- the GR Community is quite small in terms of knowing one another) and get what you want to accomplish firmed up in your mind, as the goal of what you aim for. Really, any of us would help you. Education is the thing of many of us.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

I did look at the pedigrees I didnt realize you bought them so thank you so much! I got the picture of the sire from the breeder I dont have anymore but I could ask for some. Yeah I should probably not just quit on breeding but its a lot to learn and I have a lot of other stuff to do. I am still interested in breeding Ill just have two find a good mentor. But Ill look into it some more when I turn 15. Thank you guys for all the info and help btw!


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Would you mind asking for more photos of him? I am exceedingly curious on what he will look like standing and from side particularly. Thank you!
And yes, Laura spend some money and a good deal of time. Each dog has to be input to the database, which is time consuming. And then I went in and did all their DOBs (not on AKC research pedigrees) by looking each up on AKC.org, then added in stud book dates and went to OFA on each of them. If you will share Patriot's registered name and number I'll make him a page and link it for you-then you can put up a photo of him if you want, and input his clearances as you get them which will link his k9data page to OFA database. We have so many wonderful resources!


----------



## Simply Golden (Apr 21, 2020)

Patriot the Golden said:


> Looking for a Female Golden at least a year old and unspayed anybody know of one?


No breeder would sell a year old that is worth breeding. Why don’t you get a puppy?


----------



## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Patriot the Golden said:


> Here’s the mom


Did you actually get to meet the breeder in person at the place where the pups were whelped? It's so weird that the pic of your boy's mom is the same one used by Kopps Golden Ranch Retrievers in California. That dog's name is Ginger and this is her pedigree link: Pedigree: Mama's Pick Little Miss Ginger Snap which is different than the AKC # you provided for Patriot's mom.









And the pic you provided:


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

I met the parents but they looked like the pictures. They didnt look any different than the pictures so im not sure. Also if I did breed (probably not any time soon) I would get a puppy so that i would know how she is trained and how she was raised.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Ill ask for another picture though


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

heres another one of her on the right.


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

That is not the same dog -- no way
No way the sire looks like the picture given to you, with a pedigree with no show dogs in it, either


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Patriot the Golden said:


> View attachment 872620
> 
> heres another one of her on the right.


If you reverse search that on google it's on all kinds of websites. It's probably a stock image.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Patriot, that is not the same bitch. There is no way. To an unpracticed eye one might not see it but it is not the same bitch. And the dog on the left is not the one you posted as Patriot's sire earlier, and I wanted to see more sire photos because I have serious doubts he is the dog named in the pedigree. Anney, maybe you will be better w images search on that photo? I did try to find it so I would be able to name the dog but could not find it.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

None of this means don't love your dog, of course. It means your breeder is not who you thought she was.


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Patriot the Golden said:


> Here is the father
> I’ll post a better picture of the mom.


I recognize that picture. This is the dog in the picture:


Pedigree: Crangold The Hunt Is On



You've been duped by Patriot's breeder.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Thanks! I knew I recognized him. Carole Amos bred to him. I KNEW I recognized him! I'm so sorry Patriot. And I am glad you know now.


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Yeah I always liked that dog, I knew his name was Scout, and he went back to Yogi


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

oooohhhhhhh well now I feel really dumb but i promise the parents did look like the pictures


----------



## Jmcarp83 (May 4, 2018)

I hope this is a lesson in what type of breeder you don’t want to be, if you choose to do so many years down the road. I think Prism’s inquiry to where you are to see if there’s anyone near you is very generous. You’re young but if someone is offering you an inch, take it! If you someday would like to have a litter of pups from two quality dogs, then you would be smart to take any help you can get especially being as young as you are.

We all love our dogs. To us, our dogs, no matter their pedigree, are the best in our world. But it doesn’t mean all of our dogs should be bred even if from responsible breeders.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

And the offer of making Patriot a k9data page is one you should take me up on. For several reasons- you ought to be feeling right now some anger towards the breeder for lying to you. To your eye, they might look the same but I am reasonably sure I can imagine what they look like in real life to a practiced eye and you should feel angry towards the breeder. You should also make an effort to put their name out there, as they will dupe someone else someday and that's never right- it's the same stealing.


----------



## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

I also thought I recognized that dog. Crangold is local to me and you can usually easily recognize a Crangold dog when you see them around. I wonder if she knows someone is using a photo of Scout and passing it off as one of their own..


----------



## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

Emmdenn said:


> I also thought I recognized that dog. Crangold is local to me and you can usually easily recognize a Crangold dog when you see them around. I wonder if she knows someone is using a photo of Scout and passing it off as one of their own..


This is what I was thinking. I would be furious if someone used a picture of my dog in that way.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

So- PAtriot= did you ever register your boy?
I ask that because the snippets of his reg application (unless you took pics for some reason that were not the whole page) indicate you still have the application. What is his registration number if you did?Or the litter number- it'd start with SS and end with -01, or -02 etc. Not his parents' numbers, we know those.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Stolen photos are pretty common. I do google image searches on all the pics on my site and rarely do I do that and not find someone claiming the photo as their own. All it takes is an early AM demand to remove it or be reported to the host and it goes away. But liars and thieves are everywhere. To steal a photo off K9data indicates this breeder is aware of the database yet Laura spent money and hours on the sire and dam of this dog, and I spent about 3 hours inputting DOBs and checking OFA on every dog in the pedigree. It is so wrong to deceive a child who saved her own money to buy this dog.


----------



## Jmcarp83 (May 4, 2018)

And what’s even creepier is...they obviously know what a quality golden should look like and be for them to have multiples of one dog.


----------



## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Patriot was duped or is having some fun with us. There is no way even to an uneducated eye that you take the first pic of the supposed dam and put it next to the second and say with the confidence that they are the same dogs.


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Patriot the Golden said:


> I met the parents but they looked like the pictures. They didnt look any different than the pictures so im not sure. Also if I did breed (probably not any time soon) I would get a puppy so that i would know how she is trained and how she was raised.


Did you get more pictures of the sire?


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

no the lady said she didnt have any right now. BUT I PROMISE THAT I AM NOT PLAYING AROUND. I didn't give that much thought to the pictures I just trusted her and thought maybe it was the lighting or somethin. I know how valuable time is and I would never waste your time playing around. I just trusted the breeder because she seemed really nice. I guess I will know next time. I did register him but his registration didnt go though so they resent me the papers i just need to resend them in. but after he is registered i could post his reg # if you would like.


----------



## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Patriot the Golden said:


> no the lady said she didnt have any right now. BUT I PROMISE THAT I AM NOT PLAYING AROUND. I didn't give that much thought to the pictures I just trusted her and thought maybe it was the lighting or somethin. I know how valuable time is and I would never waste your time playing around. I just trusted the breeder because she seemed really nice. I guess I will know next time. I did register him but his registration didnt go though so they resent me the papers i just need to resend them in. but after he is registered i could post his reg # if you would like.


His registration # is on the sheet you were taking pics of to provide the sire & dam's #s...it starts with "SS" What is the name of the breeder. I lived in Oklahoma for a couple of years and am pretty familiar with a number of the breeders.


----------



## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Patriot the Golden said:


> no the lady said she didnt have any right now. BUT I PROMISE THAT I AM NOT PLAYING AROUND. I didn't give that much thought to the pictures I just trusted her and thought maybe it was the lighting or somethin. I know how valuable time is and I would never waste your time playing around. I just trusted the breeder because she seemed really nice. I guess I will know next time. I did register him but his registration didnt go though so they resent me the papers i just need to resend them in. but after he is registered i could post his reg # if you would like.


He should already have a reg number which would be on the form you have to send in. I can't remember if it is on the top or bottom of the form. That form is where you would write in a registered name for Patriot into the little squares and make a selection for if you want a certified pedigree sent to you.

I believe you and don't think you are wasting our time. I think the breeder unfortunately took advantage of you because you were young and did not know any better. She sent you false photos of a dog that lives here in Vermont and another totally different one of a different dam.


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

livduse said:


> Did you get more pictures of the sire?


Oh whoops, I didn’t realize there was another page to this discussion. I’m sorry about the situation with the breeder, she should be held accountable. This is why extensive research is necessary when thinking about purchasing a puppy.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

OH OK Well then him registration number is SS13396504 I think but I will double check.
Well I feel really stupid and pretty frustrated!


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

There are 4 in that litter that are registered- all males- Banelli Saffell, Oly VII,
Wylie Finn Symes, Hondo Harmon. DOB is July 15,2019.

So unless one of those is his name, if you posted the correct registration number without transposing any of it (and really, you can PM me a photo of the whole sheet you posted snippets of earlier and I will get it correct). There is a way you can do it online, if the code is there @ the bottom left. I hate to consider spending $22 to find out if these puppies even came out of the two dogs who were already paid for...while if you do send me a PM of that sheet front I can input one of his siblings so it would be easy enough to create a page for him once you do complete his registration. I am curious too what was wrong w the one you sent in- there isn't much you could do wrong on it since you obviously put in your address and name correctly, and if you chose a name already in the database they don't bother telling you they will just add a roman numeral suffix to it. 
Do not leave this for 'next time'. It's wrong to lie and cheat and steal, all of which this breeder did to you- and you considered this person a mentor. Not a good one, obviously. Who doesn't have photos of their own dog anyway? I'd guess she is on to your grasping what was done to you.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Yeah I chose a name already in the database
Any ideas for his registered name? I cant think of anything to go with Patriot?


----------



## Jmcarp83 (May 4, 2018)

It can be literally anything you want. You don’t have to have Patriot in the title or you can. My dogs are “kennel Estella du Nord to Freedom” and “kennel Dreams of Hope, Holly, & Noël.” One is from their breeder’s “Freedom” litter and the other an advent litter. So I chose to tie in some way.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

So- thankfully these people who use last names as dog's last name are pretty easy to find- Banelli lives in Locust Grove Oklahoma, DOB 7/15/2019.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Patriot the Golden said:


> Yeah I chose a name already in the database
> Any ideas for his registered name? I cant think of anything to go with Patriot?


Typically AKC does not even let you know it is in the database. As I said- they issue it with a roman numeral.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Ok so it doesnt have to have his name in it?


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

K9-Design said:


> I recognize that picture. This is the dog in the picture:
> 
> 
> Pedigree: Crangold The Hunt Is On


Thank you so much, that was driving me crazy. I thought I knew that dog but could not place it.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Patriot the Golden said:


> I met the parents but they looked like the pictures. They didnt look any different than the pictures so im not sure.


What this tells me is that you don’t have an eye for Goldens yet. That is very common when people are brand new. They can see color, maybe heads, and sometimes coat. All of these are very superficial traits in the overall quality of the dog. When you're new, you get wrapped up in the beauty that is the Golden Retriever. Even dogs that are not quality enough to breed are still beautiful as this is a truly handsome breed.

In the hopes of putting this in to a realm where you likely have developed your eye. Take a look at the two horses below. Which is the better horse?

1.









2.*







*

For people not experience with horses, both would be probably considered equally lovely just by the nature of being a beautiful horse. They are both bay in color, they both have lovely, expressive heads, they are both glossy and well kept and they both embody the majesty that is a horse.

With deeper knowledge, it takes just a second to determine which horse is clearly higher quality. That would be the one you would want to invest training in, feel confident it could safely stand up to work without injury and potentially be considered for breeding. The other is actually quite painful to look at from a structure standpoint.

So, which is which on the horses? Can you see the point I am making?

I can look at Scouts pedigree and reasonably concluded what he will look like. He is the very clear culmination decades of reputable breeders persevering the best traits from his ancestors and they worked hard to do so. A dog with a pedigree vacant of titles that looks to be based on whatever dogs were fertile will not have this look or structure. Even one generation of careless breeding will start the slide backwards to the generic dog. Developing an eye for Goldens is one of the big things a great mentor can and will help with.


----------



## Obedience rocks (Feb 17, 2020)

I agree with the others above. You seem to have researched into what you are planning to do, and have a lot of experience with animals. I would definitely get into the sport/confirmation side of goldens and find a breeder/competitor who can be a mentor. I can vouch for these ideas because they all happened to me in some way or another: in 2016, my family went to the shelter and picked your typical troublesome mutt. 😊 I started the 4H dog project with her, loved it, then started doing AKC rally with her (she was too shy to pass the sit for exam in obedience). I really, really wanted a golden, specially to do AKC shows with, so my family then got a golden—-Rhode, who is now 1 1/2 years. He got a 196 1/2 at his first dog show at 6 months old and he and I got Highest scoring junior handler. He was also the second highest scoring dog in Wi 4H last year, and made it to the Rally nationals this year. I saw a lady whose dogs were super good, asked her a question, and fast forward to now, she has helped me a lot with Rhode’s training, and she and I plan on getting together to train. I also started working Saturday mornings at a dog grooming/training shop, shadowing the owner, and now I have a job there, am training to be a groomer, and will be teaching classes there myself. I will be working full time there this summer when I am out of school (graduating high school this year). So, I think get out there as much as you can, ask questions, and learn a lot! I’m not totally against you breeding eventually, but you have to know a lot and be in it for the right reasons. Your dogs that you breed should be outstanding examples of their breed, whether it be in looks or performance (ie places well in confirmation, CDX or above in obedience, hunt tests, etc) On getting a dog, your best bet would probably be getting a puppy through a reputable breeder who shows and titles his/her dogs.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

The second horse is obviously the first choice. He is sturdily built, has a beautiful head, ears are at a perfect angle. His back is not dipped as the first. Also a first glance at this horse his tail is show cut (usually english riding). He broad in the shoulders and very muscular usually see this in Jumping horses. His height even though it is a picture can also indicate a Jumper. He looks to be well maintained he is at a perfect weight. Belly goes up closer to the hind legs. The hind jegs rise at a perfect rate from the back and decrease beautifully to the tail of the horse. He was very well bred,I think you get the point. The obvious horse to pick would be the second.
I can understand this because I have been around horses more than I have dogs. I got on my first horse at 3 years old and fell in love. I was trained by a Jockey, Horse Trainer, and Animal Behaviorist. I also have taken jumping lessons. I can ride western, english, and a little bit of Trick and Roman Riding. I have excelled at all but I prefer English Jumping.
So at first i was like what difference is there on the dogs what are they talking about? But... now I noticed some differences just by realizing that I could recognize the horse off the bat. So I figured if other people could hardly tell the difference between those two beautiful Bays, I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the Goldens since Patriot is my first Golden. 
@Obedience rocks Thank You! I really like them as pets and I have had people ask me if i would ever breed him because he was so mannerful and obedient. So I just thought i would look into it but... I am gonna slow down get a good mentor, buy puppies from them and then possible breed. About the showings I really dont like big crowds. I mean I sing and have sang in front of hundreds of people. But I have been singing since I was 3. I have jumped horses before but that was because I was making a good name and reputation for a junior jumper horse (happy to say he is now in a great home) and I have been riding since I can remember. Dogs... I mean I train them and sell them or give them to good people but i have never showed before and i would need to learn all the rules. Now I am not saying any of the dogs I have aren't competent I am just saying I know there is alot behind the scenes in training a horse and getting them ready for a competition so there is probably a good bit into dog showing as well. But the older I get I really just dont like big crowds. I hated living in neighboorhoods (thankfully I live on a farm). So I might not show but I will definitely get a good breeder as a mentor.


----------



## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

A lot of people see a well trained, well mannered golden and think that a puppy from that dog will just automatically be there same. They have no idea the training involved to get a golden to that level. As well bred Goldens, there can be differences in energy level and trainability but that take years and decades of selective breeding to refine and have dogs breed true to the expected temperament of the breed standard. So no matter what, no matter how easy or more demanding to train puppies from certain lines or even pups in the same litter, it takes a lot of time and dedication to get them to that level. 

You know the time and effort you spent to train Patriot, when people talk about wanting a puppy from a dog that is well behaved, you would do them a great service to explain this, that they don't come like this and nothing replaces a lot of time in training the puppy. That really is the best thing you can do for those people who inquire about puppies from a well trained dog.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Yeah that would probably be the best thing to do. Other people would benefit from the info too!


----------



## Obedience rocks (Feb 17, 2020)

Patriot the Golden said:


> The second horse is obviously the first choice. He is sturdily built, has a beautiful head, ears are at a perfect angle. His back is not dipped as the first. Also a first glance at this horse his tail is show cut (usually english riding). He broad in the shoulders and very muscular usually see this in Jumping horses. His height even though it is a picture can also indicate a Jumper. He looks to be well maintained he is at a perfect weight. Belly goes up closer to the hind legs. The hind jegs rise at a perfect rate from the back and decrease beautifully to the tail of the horse. He was very well bred,I think you get the point. The obvious horse to pick would be the second.
> I can understand this because I have been around horses more than I have dogs. I got on my first horse at 3 years old and fell in love. I was trained by a Jockey, Horse Trainer, and Animal Behaviorist. I also have taken jumping lessons. I can ride western, english, and a little bit of Trick and Roman Riding. I have excelled at all but I prefer English Jumping.
> So at first i was like what difference is there on the dogs what are they talking about? But... now I noticed some differences just by realizing that I could recognize the horse off the bat. So I figured if other people could hardly tell the difference between those two beautiful Bays, I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the Goldens since Patriot is my first Golden.
> @Obedience rocks Thank You! I really like them as pets and I have had people ask me if i would ever breed him because he was so mannerful and obedient. So I just thought i would look into it but... I am gonna slow down get a good mentor, buy puppies from them and then possible breed. About the showings I really dont like big crowds. I mean I sing and have sang in front of hundreds of people. But I have been singing since I was 3. I have jumped horses before but that was because I was making a good name and reputation for a junior jumper horse (happy to say he is now in a great home) and I have been riding since I can remember. Dogs... I mean I train them and sell them or give them to good people but i have never showed before and i would need to learn all the rules. Now I am not saying any of the dogs I have aren't competent I am just saying I know there is alot behind the scenes in training a horse and getting them ready for a competition so there is probably a good bit into dog showing as well. But the older I get I really just dont like big crowds. I hated living in neighboorhoods (thankfully I live on a farm). So I might not show but I will definitely get a good breeder as a mentor.


Yes, I had to get used to shows as well, however, most shows around me are not that big, and everyone is is very nice. You actually don’t have to a lot of talking, just to your dog 😊 You could just go to a couple shows to watch and ask questions...and maybe meet someone who can help you. Join an obedience/dog club. There are also AKC obedience rule books, and I’m sure you can find a lot of info about that and other sports on the internet. If you are on Facebook, there are obedience and rally pages as well. 
I was EXTREMELY quiet when I joined 4H dog project. Like, talked very softly, didn’t talk to anyone quiet. But gradually, I opened up, became more confident, and became who I am now—still quiet, yes, but I can hold my ground very well. 😊 A mentor would be an excellent idea.


----------



## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

Patriot the Golden said:


> Yeah I chose a name already in the database
> Any ideas for his registered name? I cant think of anything to go with Patriot?


If you'd like, make a new post asking for help coming up with ideas for a registered name for a dog whose "call name" is Patriot. Many of us, myself included, LOVE coming up with registered name ideas!


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

I have no problem talkin to people I am just not a very people person. Even when I was little. @pawsnpaca I will definitely do that!


----------



## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

As just an observer of this thread, can I just say I am so completely disgusted and even dismayed that a "breeder" would steal the photos of someone else's well bred dogs and pass them off as the parents of her litter? So deceitful. Can she not be reported to the AKC... or even the BBB (since she is clearly more of a business than anyone who actually cares about breeding quality dogs).


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Yes! I am glad you can see the point. As soon as you posted the picture of the dad after the registration information, I knew that picture was wrong.

I was hoping that if we pushed in to horses it would be easier. I grew up in 4-H and Arabians so even though it has been *years* I am still comfortable talking some horse. I was a 4-H winner at county and state levels, chosen for a scholarship to attend the Arabian Horse Association’s (AHA) Inaugural Youth Conference, attended the AHA national horse judging competition with my team, broke and trained my gelding to a class placement in regular classes (against the big farms and pro trainers) at the Scottsdale All Arabian Horse show (the largest Arabian Horse show in the world), and was the two time EVAHA show circuit annual high point winner and earned Regional Reserve Championships and Top Tens. So, I have done a bit of nearly everything as Arabs are versatile and high point pushes you to compete in everything. So yes, it was easy to find a picture that would be easy to see a massive structural issue in the swayback. Most everyday Joe‘s probably don’t see it though. 

Once you have the eye for Goldens those differences will jump out at you too. I hold my tongue when I meet Golden owners who meet my dogs and tell me my dog looks exactly like theirs. Golden owners tend to be friendly and proud so I usually get to see proud owner photos. Usually the photo shows a dog very different than mine to a trained eye but it will be a Golden they love that is usually a similar color to mine. That is all their eye can see. It is not a bad thing but if an owner‘s eye can’t see the important structural details, they should not be breeding. If they do, it is very likely they will breed structural issues in to the puppies instead of breeding toward preserving the good qualities of each dog and strengthening the dog’s weaknesses. There are no perfect dogs so it takes a lot of study and evaluation to make good breeding choices. I’ll let you in on not so secret knowledge, most of the time great breeders are not breeding two dogs they own together. They start by looking at their bitch and determine what she needs improvement on then they find the best stud dog for that regardless of where he lives.

If you like books, here are two you should consider getting.








An Eye For a Dog: Illustrated Guide to Judging Purebred Dogs: Cole, Robert W: 9781929242146: Amazon.com: Books


An Eye For a Dog: Illustrated Guide to Judging Purebred Dogs [Cole, Robert W] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. An Eye For a Dog: Illustrated Guide to Judging Purebred Dogs



www.amazon.com












Judging the Golden Retriever, A Discussion of the Breed Standard - Golden Retriever Club of America


This is a new and in depth look at the Golden Retriever breed standard by Marcia R. Schlehr, author of the renowned "Blue Book", A Study of the Golden Retriever. In her new book, Judging the Golden Retriever, A Discussion of the Breed Standard, Marcia R. Schlehr goes into even more detail...




www.grca.org




Neither can take the place of a good mentor and getting your hands on dogs but they are good books. The first is more general the second is very spec to Goldens. Both have fabulous illustration.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Well I think you can but... is it really worth it. The breeders go by Smithsonian Goldens just get the name out there and warn other people to not buy from them.
@LJack wow you've done alot with horses I have competed but only within the United States. I actually just sold a Black Shagya Arabian Stallion he was gorgeous! The lady that bought him is local to me and her daughter is getting into Show Jumping and he was perfect for her. Of course i made sure they had a bond before I just sent him home with her because I raised him as a foal so I was sad to see him go but he is doing amazing! I had an amazing Araappaloosa Stallion. He was Blue Roan, his name was King. We placed at every event we went to. He was amazing and then he coliced and he never recovered. I was away at my grandparents for the weekends when he coliced and since he never got better I got into training horses because I didn't want to get to attached. I still get attached to the foals that I get or a foal from a Mare and a Stud (usually never my stud even though I did stud King once). I love teaching them to jump though and then seeing everything fall into place, its very satisfying to me to see a foal come to their full potential. I can see what you all are saying though because breeding horses takes a lot of time and finding the right stud for a mare is time consuming and very important. You can't just put two horses together and expect to get a Champion foal.
My favorite breeds for show jumping are Shagya Arabians
Appaloosa
Araappaloosa 
Hispano-Arabe
Irish Sport Horse
Holsteiner
Palomino Dutch Warmbloods (I actually have a Mare right now)


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Actually the Palomino is a Filly because she is just shy of 2 years old. Mares are usually 5 years or older.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I used to teach Junior Showmanship- believe it or not, most of the kids in the class year after year were very introverted types, and several of them had to work HARD at making eye contact even. Off the top of my head, three of these kids I taught got to #1 in their breed/region in Juniors. They did have to work, but when you are in the ring, it's not like you're in a crowd it is more like you are super focussed on your dog, and the rest of the class in the ring with you. Those kids will be a peer group for you and the better you get, the more opportunities you will have to handle other dogs outside of Juniors. There are scholarships,lots of reasons to do Juniors!


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Patriot the Golden said:


> Well I think you can but... is it really worth it. The breeders go by Smithsonian Goldens just get the name out there and warn other people to not buy from them.


How did YOU find Smithsonian Goldens?
Were you able to figure out how to scan me his reg application?
You click on my user name, and then the page it takes you to, click on 'start conversation'.

Do not post it in the thread.


----------



## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

I cant find anything called *Smithsonian Goldens. *If you name the breeder here, it will help other future puppy buyers from being taken advantage of by this "breeder" like she did to you.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

John Smith II was the name the breeders went by she never gave me her name. Come to think of it it was a little weird, but she said that their puppies were from the kennel Smithsonian Goldens. I found them on the AKC Website they sold the puppies for $1200 so I thought I was getting a quality puppy because none of them said champion sired at the time.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

and there are no CH in either sire or dam pedigree either. Maybe you misworded your post but it sounds like you thought that you were getting a CH pedigree? FWIW- a pedigree with a deep history of clearances and titles will cost much more than that.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

No they had said they had junior championship titles on the sire but not the dam. And none of the other breeders had any Champion Sired puppies


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Patriot the Golden said:


> No they had said they had junior championship titles on the sire but not the dam. And none of the other breeders had any Champion Sired puppies


AKC only offers a Championship and a Grand Championship. AKC doesn’t have a Junior version.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Oh I didnt know that


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Patriot the Golden said:


> Oh I didnt know that


With how your breeder treated you I figured that was probably the case. Honestly, the level of deception they employed with you is just awful.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

LJack said:


> AKC only offers a Championship and a Grand Championship. AKC doesn’t have a Junior version.


Not only that, I would be quite surprised if it truly said this on the AKC Marketplace. There is no such thing. Or even CH pedigree- there are zero CH's in the 5 generation pedigree of these animals.
You should be cognizant by now of the fact that if you would be forthcoming with what you do know we could easily find out what you SHOULD know about this breeder. What town? John Smith is probably the most common name in the country and in Oklahoma. Really- where in OK, how many dogs did you see, do you have the emails where these claims were made (because there is no way it'd have said CH sired on the marketplace). This all has the feel of being toyed with to be frank. I love a good mystery as much as anyone else but you are parcelling out the 'clues' in bits as big as the tiny photos of the reg app.
We see people every day here who have been deceived and your reaction is not normal.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

For your own edification- this is what the AKC point and title progression looks like when a dog has never been entered in an AKC event.


----------



## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

One thing that stands out to me is that you didn’t file the AKC paperwork yet you are involved in horses. I’m not familiar with all horse registration practices but AQHA and APHA require much more of a process then AKC. If you are selling horses you are having to complete registration and transfer papers on horses. AKC should be a piece of cake. AKC can be done online and for AQHA and APHA you still have to submit papers, original signatures, pictures of horse, etc.


----------



## Kellie Cosby (Jul 31, 2019)

Patriot
[QUOTE="DblTrblGolden2 said:


> One thing that stands out to me is that you didn’t file the AKC paperwork yet you are involved in horses. I’m not familiar with all horse registration practices but AQHA and APHA require much more of a process then AKC. If you are selling horses you are having to complete registration and transfer papers on horses. AKC should be a piece of cake. AKC can be done online and for AQHA and APHA you still have to submit papers, original signatures, pictures of horse, etc.


Sorry to jump in on your reply just a nice Segway into my post.
I haven't read the entire post there are approximately 7 days of it but the creep factor is so huge in this thread I am wondering why so many are indulging a self-proclaimed emotionally unstable minor at some point it would seem clear that a guardian should be involved in some way and if the minor has accomplished the many things that they are talking about it would certainly have to be done with the help of adults or someone else.
I am new to this forum and if I knew of a way to cut this off so that I didn't have to see it anymore I would there probably is .this just seems absurd.
the Golden, post: 7796800, member: 208747"]
Here is t[/QUOTE]


----------



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Agreed. Kellie your post is quite accurate. I believe about 5% of the "accomplishments"


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

This account is no longer available.


----------



## Dunmar (Apr 15, 2020)

Well, I saw that coming.


----------



## Goldenbrody (Oct 23, 2019)

Patriot the Golden said:


> oooohhhhhhh well now I feel really dumb but i promise the parents did look like the pictures


Patriot - I know you are getting a lot of information on this site and it is all great. I have had Goldens before but not golden puppies, so I went to this site to see if anyone could help me. I was given EXCELLENT information and help and I am now the proud owner of a very healthy and happy guy- Dozer. You have hit the lotto with the group that is on the posts with you now. They really care about the breed and those of us who want to give our guys/gals a great home. If you are wanting to breed in the future, these are the people you want to learn from and listen to.

Good luck to you in all that you do! Don't ever feel dumb. Everyone has to start somewhere and the fact that you came to this sight seeking advice and you are listening and taking it in makes you the smartest 14 year old that I know. Keep going!!

Your Patriot is a very luck fella to have you! 

Thank you for being you!


----------



## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

Dunmar said:


> Well, I saw that coming.


I saw and said it from day one


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

So- now that she's gone, thoughts?
I kinda wonder if it is the bad breeder who's posed here as a 14YO to see what we can suss out on them.


----------



## Dunmar (Apr 15, 2020)

Prism Goldens said:


> So- now that she's gone, thoughts?
> I kinda wonder if it is the bad breeder who's posed here as a 14YO to see what we can suss out on them.


I can't say I believed a single thing that was said on her side. Excuses for everything and a dog too good to be true. 
I don't know if it was a young person who was desperate to be right, or a troll trying to get a rise out of a group.


----------



## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

Prism Goldens said:


> So- now that she's gone, thoughts?
> I kinda wonder if it is the bad breeder who's posed here as a 14YO to see what we can suss out on them.


I think when you found the actual dogs that the pictures were taken of they got worried. I wondered at first if it was just a really bored lonely teenager looking for interaction. Toward the end it was hard to not just say something.


----------



## 153330 (Dec 29, 2016)

I was pretty confused. I did wonder "troll?", but then I also thought lonely home-schooled teen, possibly on the autistic spectrum? But maybe that was the intention... I'm still not sure, and I guess we'll probably never know.


----------



## Jmcarp83 (May 4, 2018)

Honestly, I’m 36 and at 14 I was a great writer. Great but there was an ability to tell I was 14 years old. However, the original posters posts read a lot older than 14 years old.


----------



## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

I kept finding hard to believe a 14 year old training a golden by 1yo to be a service dog, therapy dog, something else and started training to be a search and rescue dog. No way for a golden to be trained in all of that at a year old.

Plus there's likely no way a 14 year old would be educated enough in one of those types of training let alone all of them AND be able to break and train horses AND school? Nuh uh.

Just never bought any of it. I posted as much earlier


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

I can’t believe any of it, this thread has been a rollercoaster!


----------



## livduse (Dec 14, 2019)

Either an uneducated kid or a troll, at one point they asked me if it would be ok to get two pups from Gus’s breeder and breed them. They just kept asking questions like that. They were the most ridiculous questions.


----------



## Dunmar (Apr 15, 2020)

Unfortunately if they were looking for a female to breed they may find a breeder like mine that gives breeding rights with purchases


----------



## 153330 (Dec 29, 2016)

The 'accomplishments' were clearly overblown from the start. I don't think anyone was fooled by those. 
The questions were often really uneducated - but that's sort of what I'd expect from a kid.
I didn't mind spending spare time reading and occasionally commenting. Not sure if those who spent much more time (and also money) would feel the same? 
I guess I'd rather be kind to a troll than harsh to a vulnerable kid, but maybe I'm just gullible. Hard to say. Still not sure exactly what we just experienced?


----------



## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

HollyB said:


> The 'accomplishments' were clearly overblown from the start. I don't think anyone was fooled by those.
> The questions were often really uneducated - but that's sort of what I'd expect from a kid.
> I didn't mind spending spare time reading and occasionally commenting. Not sure if those who spent much more time (and also money) would feel the same?
> I guess I'd rather be kind to a troll than harsh to a vulnerable kid, but maybe I'm just gullible. Hard to say. Still not sure exactly what we just experienced?


Agreed, That's why I voiced my concerns early on and let it ride. Didn't get too involved in case it was just a kid but I feel bad for LJack spending the money (though it wasn't a lot at least) for the pedigree and Prism for spending all the time entering data.


----------



## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

Lol - I was 14 when I first joined the forum, it was not that long ago for me. I do not know of any 14 year old who had the time or the means to train multiple dogs and train horses in a million different things and excel at all of them (school? sports/extracurriculars?). Frankly, I don't know anyone who would give their dog to a 14 year old to train.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

aesthetic said:


> Lol - I was 14 when I first joined the forum, it was not that long ago for me. I do not know of any 14 year old who had the time or the means to train multiple dogs and train horses in a million different things and excel at all of them (school? sports/extracurriculars?). Frankly, I don't know anyone who would give their dog to a 14 year old to train.


I think the only thing I believed was that the poster was 14 years old....


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> Didn't get too involved in case it was just a kid but I feel bad for LJack spending the money (though it wasn't a lot at least) for the pedigree and Prism for spending all the time entering data.


Don’t feel bad, I sure don’t. I love the breed more than $44.00 worth. Worst case scenario is this poster was the breeder or aspiring breeder or a troll and now the records are up on K9Data so hopefully future buyers won’t be duped. I am okay with that.

Best case is this is a child who is exaggerating experience for some reason and now has a better idea of what her dog is and isn’t. Hopefully time and education leads her to the conclusion he is not a great start for reaching her goals. Maybe she takes even some of the information shared and learns.


----------



## Peri29 (Aug 5, 2017)

Maggie'sVoice said:


> I kept finding hard to believe a 14 year old training a golden by 1yo to be a service dog, therapy dog, something else and started training to be a search and rescue dog. No way for a golden to be trained in all of that at a year old.
> 
> Plus there's likely no way a 14 year old would be educated enough in one of those types of training let alone all of them AND be able to break and train horses AND school? Nuh uh.
> 
> Just never bought any of it. I posted as much earlier


Same here.I could not even believe that the thread reached upto page 8.I ceased reading after the 3rd page.I guess he was really 14 years old (dog's age),bigtime troller.Training,therapy dog owner, people asking him to breed after seeing the very much famous Patriot😂


----------



## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

Megora said:


> I think the only thing I believed was that the poster was 14 years old....


Me too lol. The lack of proper punctuation/spelling really did that for me. I know adults can also spell improperly and use incorrect punctuation, but very few can do it the way a 14 year old does. I do hope they learned SOMETHING from this thread, although I am unsure what the purpose was to begin with.


----------



## 153330 (Dec 29, 2016)

So the 'New Here' thread now has Patriots username attached to it. I guess the OP was Patriot re-registering with a different username and the admins merged the accounts? (Sorry I didn't take a screenshot) The image says the account is deleted, but it looks like it's still possible to follow or message that account?


----------



## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Megora said:


> I think the only thing I believed was that the poster was 14 years old....


Ditto. I was getting confused by the constantly changing accomplishments. I did and do still think it was a kid who was trying to impress, get attention, etc. which makes me kind of sad and worried for her.


----------



## OscarsDad (Dec 20, 2017)

Tip o' the hat to everyone on this thread who was so helpful, understanding, patient, and kind...


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Not a whole lot of what Patriot posted made sense. AKC does not return registrations for a new name, they merely add a roman numeral to whatever was submitted if it is a duplicate. 
It was unclear at every post that Patriot was telling the truth about whatever Patriot was posting. Obviously Patriot's breeder was a liar at best and who knows at worst. Stealing photos ? Nothing about that is right.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

aesthetic said:


> Me too lol. The lack of proper punctuation/spelling really did that for me. I know adults can also spell improperly and use incorrect punctuation, but very few can do it the way a 14 year old does. I do hope they learned SOMETHING from this thread, although I am unsure what the purpose was to begin with.


Heheh, speaking up for teenagers all over.... I make more typos and miss words all over the place now, which is something I never used to do as a teenager. I used to help different people edit novels back then and in my early 20's and there was one woman especially who drove me nuts because she'd "drop" words here and there and I could never figure out why that kept happening. 

I still don't know why it happens, but I do it now. <= I think it's distractions, probably.


----------



## 208747 (Apr 30, 2020)

Ok I need to apologize to all of you on this Forum. I am actually 14. I didn't really have anything to do with the whole quarantine, so I just decided to rate a whole bunch of websites. I was only looking to see if you guys were friendly and different things. I was just wanting it to die out. But it didn't and I couldn't just stop replying, mainly because I didn't want you all to be mad at me. It was a horrible mistake in wasting your alls time. I feel really awful. I especially want to apologize to Prism Goldens and LJack, you guys spent so much time on this. I did find out that my breeder I got my Golden Patriot from was unethical. I am glad to know that know. I feel really really bad. I created another account. Emmdenn told me that I couldn't have more than one account though. I know you probably don't believe a word I am saying right now. I don't blame you and its totally ok if you don't if you are angry with me feel free to voice that. I deserve it. 
I have trained my dog and with the help of my mentor in Oklahoma He will be finishing up emotion or therapy animal training. I actually do have a Palomino Dutch Warmblood her name is Katie. If you don't want me to continue to post on the forums let me know and I will ask Emmdenn to ban this account. Once again I am so very sorry for what I did!!!!


----------



## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

This thread has been closed at the request of the OP.


----------

