# Post Neuter Issues



## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

I help out at my local dog training place, and Kaizer comes with me most days I go. Ever since he got neutered (about 5 weeks ago), I've noticed that he's very nervous/stressed about being in the building. He's never once had a bad experience inside the building, he loves all the people there and has always looked forward to going (as soon as I pull into the parking lot, you can hear his tail thumping against the seat). I just don't understand what caused the sudden change. He's okay in the office, his usual confident self, but as soon as we leave the office, he's stressy and nervous. He tucks tail and runs back and forth (self soothing himself?). He also tries to pull me back into the office. We haven't taken him anywhere since he got neutered, so I'm not sure if this is an issue we're going to have everywhere. He's fine in the backyard.

He's also now more hesitant around dogs when he's in the building. He's not frequently around dogs, but I know from prior experience that he is okay with dogs and plays well with them. Now he's taken to completely skirting around dogs if we happen to pass one in close proximity, which obviously happens frequently. Often the dogs are not facing him and have shown absolutely no interest in him or acknowledgement of him, yet he will still go completely around them. Ironically, we've had an issue where he wasn't able to ignore dogs if he saw them in public. We've been working on it and he's gone from pulling every time he saw a dog to stopping and staring to looking, then focusing on me. He's okay in the office though, tail wags, his eyes are bright and alert, he's not hesitant/nervous/stressed out at all.

On Saturday, we got to use the ring alone so I let him off leash. I was hoping that since there were no dogs around, no people other than my trainer, and nothing going on that he'd be okay in the ring. He wasn't. He tucked tail, ran along the perimeter of the ring near the doors, and wasn't taking food from me. I brought some tennis balls out hoping that he would at least show an interest in fetching. He didn't. Then I sat in the middle of the ring (he was staying in a corner) and called him to me. We sat in the ring together for a little while then I got up and he was back to running in the corner. After a good 45 minutes of that, I was ready to call it quits and get him out but then he showed an interest in retrieving tennis balls. Finally, after almost 2 weeks of trying to get him to play/train in the ring, he finally did. For the next 45 minutes, he retrieved tennis balls and we even trained a little (just a basic agility jump, nothing too much). We go back for the first time since tomorrow, so i don't know if Saturday's win will make it easier or not. I'll take him to the vet for a quick weigh when I'm on my way and see if he displays the same behavior.

Anyway, I just wanted some opinions on what caused this behavior and if I should be worried. My trainer said that he's probably just still recovering from the loss of hormones and I don't have anything to worry about at this time. I tend to agree with her, but if anyone has any ideas of what I should do in the meantime, that'd be greatly appreciated.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Pretend like he's never been in the building. Pretend he's a young dog again and everything is a little scary and new. Take him in the building and basically ignore everything around you. Find a chair in a corner where you and he can observe. Sit down with a book and your guy on the floor in a down stay. Relax. Read the book. Don't talk to anyone. Watch a class. Don't get up and move around for an hour. Let him just absorb again. Confidence is what he needs. Breath deep and just relax. I wouldn't make the arena a place to play by throwing tennis balls. That's more confusing.


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

Will do! When I go in tomorrow, there's an agility class going on.

Re: tennis balls. I can see how it might be confusing for him, but it's something we've been doing for the last 4 months now and we've never had an issue. Though I'll stop anyway because confusing him won't help any of his newfound confidence issues.


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

You are such a good "dog mom."


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## Gleepers (Apr 20, 2016)

My experience as I've gotten 2 dogs fixed in the last year. 
Ted our 20 lb mutt. He was a rescue that came in un neutered. Took 3 or 4 weeks to get his appointment so we got to know him prior. I took him and Penny on daily walks from the moment we got him and he was fantastic. All over the neighborhood without any incident at all. Surgery went fine but his recovery seemed rough. Healed fine but he was a miserable lump for a week. His first short walk about a week post op we walked past a dog in a yard we had no issues with before and he went 20 lb cujo on me. He became reactive to everything dog including those inside that he couldn't even see. No idea why. Lots of theories but we will be a year in Nov and with really concentrated work it's better but still not 100%. 
Penny got fixed this summer. She came through and acted like nothing happened. She was notacible crazy for the better part of a month. Like all her existing quirks had been amplified. After a bit though it settled down and she returned to her normal PITA self with no real differences. 

Probably not a helpful story but I don't think you are crazy. I don't know what changed so much with Ted, wether it was the hormones boosting his confidence, something triggering his issue at the clinic or just he got more comfortable after being rescued. But it was a very big change and we have had to work on it a lot.


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## FosterGolden (Mar 10, 2014)

Interesting. Could be a coincidence that some changes are occurring right now, after his neuter. I find that boys do change between two and three. When I did rescue, we got tons of two year old males and they changed a lot between two and three. Could be that he's not gone anywhere for two weeks and is one of those dogs that needs to reacclimate when you've been away for some time. I see that in a lot of my friends' herding dogs. One of my friends has a Border Collie and they live in an apartment in an urban area (urban in a small town, but urban nonetheless). The dog went to stay with her parents in the country for a week and when she came back to the apartment, she freaked out over all the sounds. But, you don't see this in Goldens often. 

I agree with the poster that said to sit in a corner and essentially let him acclimate. I would suggest using his open crate or his mat or whatever makes him comfortable, too. Just do this for 30 minutes a day and otherwise, let him be where he's most comfortable. By pushing him to be happy or get over it or trying to talk him into being different, you could be making things worse and that sets yourself up for bad habits, too! We should never talk our dogs into feeling differently, we should support them and help them through it, but not push them. The additional pressure and acting weird does nothing for our dogs. Your dog will let you know when he's ready to get back in the game. 

The other thing, check for hot spots or other little injuries or pain. I have one dog that acts so weird when he has one. I took him to the vet for bloat one time when he had a hot spot. It was tiny so I didn't see it yet he acted like he was in serious pain and basically dying and he didn't want anything to do with me.


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## Altairss (Sep 7, 2012)

it does sounds like he lost his confidence and its going to take a little time to rebuild it. The suggestions of watching classes is a great one! No expectations lots of time to just watch. On the tennis balls my trainer always has us play games in our training area she calls them play breaks. They have worked wonders in confidence in both my dogs and with me in my training we work for 10-15 minutes then she calls for a play break. The people that take her classes all have a play release word to show works done (for now) Not every trainer uses them but play allows a dog to distress and if your dog is refusing play it is a good read of how they are feeling at that time. Since adding them both my dogs are much more engaged to me and return to work happier and with more drive. My dogs know its an earned reward and when we go to a show I can add continuity of using it to help them see different place but same expectations.

So if it was me I would use the tennis balls especially if you have always used them your rebuilding confidence and normality helps. It usually takes several months for the hormones to completely leave the system so it may just be a reaction to the change of schedule, visit to the vets office for the surgery and forced down time. Every thing might just feel strange and thrown his confidence out of wack. Be patient build his confidence back up and remember to relax even when he is stressed if we react to their stress it goes right down the leash.


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

Thank you guys!! Kaizer's my first dog so everything I run into with him is new territory for us. Usually I do a pretty decent job of figuring things out (he hasn't been ruined yet!) but this has me so confused lol. 

cwag - thank you!! I try to remember that my dog is only as good as I am, so I try my best for him.

fostergolden - I agree, it could totally be a coincidence but this behavior is a complete 180 from his usual personality. Plus, he was at the training place with me the day before he got neutered with no issues. He's always adapted easily to new surroundings, so I'm hesitant to think he's having adapting issues. He's always been given as much acclimation time as he needs anywhere we go, so he adapts to wherever we are very quickly. My other thought was that maybe something changed in the building and threw him off, but my trainer (who's also the owner) says that she hasn't changed anything and her super soft BC is fine.

Honestly, I don't think I pushed him at all. I tried to engage with him at first and see if his love of retrieving would outweigh his worry about being in the ring. It didn't, so I backed off. Literally spent thirty+ minutes sitting on the floor with him just being in the ring. He wasn't fully relaxed, but better than before. I feel like I'm a pretty good judge of how much he can handle, and just when I was about to call it quits, he showed an interest in retrieving again. Literally, he grabbed the ball and dropped it in front of me, tail wagging and ears alert and eyes bright and happy. No hotspots and nothing that has been a problem for the past 5 weeks.

altairss - the class watching is definitely going to happen! I've been thinking that maybe today is not the best day to do it (it's agility day and it's a very high energy environment). Tomorrow is another agility day, but in the third ring there's a therapy dog and agility fundamentals class. Both are small and not as exciting, so I'm thinking that might be the better option. I also have Friday, which is the puppy class. He might need to demo dog that day though (he's had no problem being demo dog oddly enough) so I'm thinking tomorrow sounds like a good time to get him really acclimated. I didn't think about schedule changes throwing him off - he likes his schedule a lot and thrives off of structure so those two weeks where we couldn't do anything and there was no structure in his day must've been twice as hard for him.


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

It's always one step forward, two steps back, isn't it? 

I took Kaizer in today and he actually started out great! Happy tail wagging, loose jaw, bright eyes. He wasn't frantic at all, he was walking loose leash, great focus. Took him to the bathroom, and as soon as we came in, a loud truck zoomed down the street over. Cue nervous breakdown. Kaizer cowered, tucked tail, and ran into the office. I'm frustrated because he's terrified of everything and I'm confused because don't know why or what caused it. It's not like he's never heard a truck before. He's peed on the side of I96. There were trucks passing as he peed and he could not care less. Also, we live off a major road and trucks pass by all the time, we hear the noises frequently. 

It took him about 30 minutes to recover from that. He was doing his self-soothing running back and forth, but was occasionally looking at me. I clicked and treated for that and thankfully he could take treats (I had hotdogs, chicken and cheese). He wasn't taking any on Saturday. After 40 minutes, his tail was wagging and he was offering behaviors for a treat. The agility fundamentals class left so my trainer told me to go in the ring with Kaizer and see if he'd do anything for me. He was actively engaged with me, doing some tricks, and it was fine until my trainer shut the garage door (my training place is kinda warehouse-y). It made a loud noise which freaked him out again - he was running low to the ground all around the ring, ignoring my trainer and her dog who had joined us in the ring, he wasn't responding to his name, etc. Took him back to the office and gave him a toy to pacify himself with - he relaxed after 5-10 minutes.

I know that me getting frustrated definitely did not help. I tried not to show it, but I'm sure he could hear the change in my tone, however slight it was. I know that sometimes a tiny change like that is enough to make him avoid working with me, so I usually keep it positive. It's just kinda upsetting to see him so fearful and stressed about everything.

I still have not taken him anywhere besides the backyard and our training place. We go to the vet tomorrow for a weigh and I'll see how he does. If this issue is only a problem at our training place, I think we'll be okay. That's manageable, I can work on him with that very easily. If it's a problem we're gonna have everywhere, I'm not so sure what I'm going to do.

I think I'm going to contact my breeder and let her know. I don't know if she'll be able to help me much, but it's worth a shot lol


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

I don't know if anyone is reading these posts or not, but nonetheless I hope it helps someone down the road.

I've been neglecting Kaizer's paw grooming since school started - I just got really busy between school, homework and extracurriculars. The last time I did his paws was right before school started, two weeks after his neuter. Last week, I finally sat down and groomed his paws and found the grossest thick black yeasty wax in between the toes on his back feet. It was absolutely disgusting and obviously wasn't too comfortable for him. I've been kicking myself for not noticing it sooner, I feel terrible that he was suffering for so long. He also was starting to develop an ear infection (I always know when they're coming) and he was developing a rash on his stomach around where one of the neuter incisions was. I took him to the vet the next day and he was diagnosed with a minor yeast infection in his ear and a very bad yeast infection in his paws, and had dermatitis on his stomach. We got a bunch of different medications for each of the issues - the vet thinks they came about because of the antibiotics he was on for his neuter, so we got no oral medications, only topical.

Since we started treating his infections, there's been a definite change in his behavior. He's no longer freaked out about being in the building, but has now started to offer me behaviors instead of immediately tucking tail and running. Today he was even able to demo for the basic obedience class and he was 100% focused on me, despite the fact there were at least 30 people in close proximity to him. We got a lot of compliments on his behavior after class from my trainer and even some of the people in the audience (which is huge for him because he was a hot mess on wheels for such a long time - he'd constantly be pacing around on leash, could not focus on anything, and was just all over the place). I'm really kicking myself for not noticing the paw issue earlier, it must've been bothering him so much for his behavior to change so dramatically.


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## KKaren (Oct 29, 2014)

aesthetic said:


> I don't know if anyone is reading these posts or not, but nonetheless I hope it helps someone down the road.
> 
> I've been neglecting Kaizer's paw grooming since school started - I just got really busy between school, homework and extracurriculars. The last time I did his paws was right before school started, two weeks after his neuter. Last week, I finally sat down and groomed his paws and found the grossest thick black yeasty wax in between the toes on his back feet. It was absolutely disgusting and obviously wasn't too comfortable for him. I've been kicking myself for not noticing it sooner, I feel terrible that he was suffering for so long. He also was starting to develop an ear infection (I always know when they're coming) and he was developing a rash on his stomach around where one of the neuter incisions was. I took him to the vet the next day and he was diagnosed with a minor yeast infection in his ear and a very bad yeast infection in his paws, and had dermatitis on his stomach. We got a bunch of different medications for each of the issues - the vet thinks they came about because of the antibiotics he was on for his neuter, so we got no oral medications, only topical.
> 
> Since we started treating his infections, there's been a definite change in his behavior. He's no longer freaked out about being in the building, but has now started to offer me behaviors instead of immediately tucking tail and running. Today he was even able to demo for the basic obedience class and he was 100% focused on me, despite the fact there were at least 30 people in close proximity to him. We got a lot of compliments on his behavior after class from my trainer and even some of the people in the audience (which is huge for him because he was a hot mess on wheels for such a long time - he'd constantly be pacing around on leash, could not focus on anything, and was just all over the place). I'm really kicking myself for not noticing the paw issue earlier, it must've been bothering him so much for his behavior to change so dramatically.


Hi Aesthetic, I have been reading your posts and the challenges you have had with Kaizer since neutering. It sounds encouraging that the treatment for the infections in his paws is helping him get more centered and hopefully back to the great boy he is. 

It's hard to keep up with everything, school, training, etc. You are a really committed and caring dog-mom. Glimmer has had challenging allergies this year and I'm also fighting some imbalance in her skin and understand what you are saying. I'm glad that you noticed his feet and fingers crossed that you are on the right path.


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## SandyK (Mar 20, 2011)

Glad Kaizer is back to normal. Very interesting to read what the changes in his behavior came from.


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## hahuston (Jul 5, 2017)

I'm so glad he's feeling better!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## zeyadeen (May 10, 2017)

happy that Kaizer is getting better, wishing you both all the best and a happy life


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

aesthetic said:


> I don't know if anyone is reading these posts or not, but nonetheless I hope it helps someone down the road.
> 
> I've been neglecting Kaizer's paw grooming since school started - I just got really busy between school, homework and extracurriculars. The last time I did his paws was right before school started, two weeks after his neuter. Last week, I finally sat down and groomed his paws and found the grossest thick black yeasty wax in between the toes on his back feet. It was absolutely disgusting and obviously wasn't too comfortable for him. I've been kicking myself for not noticing it sooner, I feel terrible that he was suffering for so long. He also was starting to develop an ear infection (I always know when they're coming) and he was developing a rash on his stomach around where one of the neuter incisions was. I took him to the vet the next day and he was diagnosed with a minor yeast infection in his ear and a very bad yeast infection in his paws, and had dermatitis on his stomach. We got a bunch of different medications for each of the issues - the vet thinks they came about because of the antibiotics he was on for his neuter, so we got no oral medications, only topical.
> 
> Since we started treating his infections, there's been a definite change in his behavior. He's no longer freaked out about being in the building, but has now started to offer me behaviors instead of immediately tucking tail and running. Today he was even able to demo for the basic obedience class and he was 100% focused on me, despite the fact there were at least 30 people in close proximity to him. We got a lot of compliments on his behavior after class from my trainer and even some of the people in the audience (which is huge for him because he was a hot mess on wheels for such a long time - he'd constantly be pacing around on leash, could not focus on anything, and was just all over the place). I'm really kicking myself for not noticing the paw issue earlier, it must've been bothering him so much for his behavior to change so dramatically.


Thank you for sharing this! Don't beat yourself up for not noticing Kaiser's problem sooner, our dogs are masters at hiding discomfort, good to hear he is on the road to feeling better! 

Your post should serve as reminder that when we are working to resolve 'behavior problems', or trying to help a dog who is having a hard time, we need to seek out and resolve the underlying 'reason' for the problem.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I’ve never seen feet with that issue. Any chance you took a photo? It’s great that you figured it out.


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

Thank you all!! He's still a little sound sensitive (barking dogs freak him out still) but at least he can be in the building and focused on me. That's 100x better than where we were just 2 weeks ago.



Alaska7133 said:


> I’ve never seen feet with that issue. Any chance you took a photo? It’s great that you figured it out.


No, I wish we did though. I think we tried but he didn't hold still long enough for us to take it (I imagine it was very uncomfortable - he's usually okay with feet handling). It's completely gone now so no chances of taking a picture. I couldn't see it just by looking straight at his paws though, even after they were groomed. I had to separate his toes by hand to see any of the wax. You know how with a really bad yeast infection in the ear, there's always that black wax? That's what it was, smelled the same and everything.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

aesthetic said:


> Thank you all!! He's still a little sound sensitive (barking dogs freak him out still) but at least he can be in the building and focused on me. That's 100x better than where we were just 2 weeks ago.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I wish we did though. I think we tried but he didn't hold still long enough for us to take it (I imagine it was very uncomfortable - he's usually okay with feet handling). It's completely gone now so no chances of taking a picture. I couldn't see it just by looking straight at his paws though, even after they were groomed. I had to separate his toes by hand to see any of the wax. You know how with a really bad yeast infection in the ear, there's always that black wax? That's what it was, smelled the same and everything.


Wow that is so weird. I've never seen anything like that. Was the infection on top, or on the bottom of the webbing? Which topical did you use to get rid of the infection?


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

aesthetic

Do not fret. This is how we learn. Glad Kaizer is doing well.


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

Alaska7133 said:


> Wow that is so weird. I've never seen anything like that. Was the infection on top, or on the bottom of the webbing? Which topical did you use to get rid of the infection?


Neither have I, it was very strange to say the least. The yeasty wax was on top of the webbing and on the sides of his toes, but it was bright red all over. We got Nolvasan scrub for his infection.


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

Too bad they can't just tell us what the problem is! Thanks for sharing your story, maybe it will save someone from going through so much in the future.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

What wonderful news. You have been so dedicated, diligent, and thoughtful all along. If anyone could have solved this mystery, it would be you! I'm happy this was an easy fix, relatively speaking!


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

Alaska7133 said:


> I’ve never seen feet with that issue. Any chance you took a photo? It’s great that you figured it out.


Guess I did take some pictures, I found a couple today. These are his front paws I believe, his back paws were worse. The black wax was only found in between one toe on his front paws (the outer toes) while it was found between each toe on his back paws. It also came out really easily, I could pull it out with no effort. I have pictures of it out of his toes, if you wanna see those too.

Sorry his nails are so long too. Like I said, it was after a month of no grooming so his nails got a lot longer than I usually keep them.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Wow. Thank you for sharing the detailed photos. Sometimes we talk about something but never have a photo to show what it is. Those photos are really weird.


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

Alaska7133 said:


> Wow. Thank you for sharing the detailed photos. Sometimes we talk about something but never have a photo to show what it is. Those photos are really weird.


Aren't they? Even the vet was confused about it. I can't tell if the scrub is working on his feet. The back paws look as red as they've always been, but I also can't remember if the vet said that the scrub was just to get the black stuff out. I'll have to call them up.


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