# COD in K9data



## Sally's Mom

I have said it in the past, if the death date is there, but not COD, I always assume cancer and take note at how old the dog was when it died.


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## CarolinaCasey

I completely agree. I have recently been helping a friend try to find a stud dog. When I go to see longevity or COD, it is frustrating as many are blank. I think it is even more essential when we're talking about "the big players" that were incredibly influential in our breed. How did they die?? It is something that needs to be known to make solid breeding choices.

I understand when the pain is still fresh in one's mind and you don't add anything for a few weeks or months... but I appreciate that. I appreciate it even more when those owners go back and add the info as they have healed.


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## Sally's Mom

And my first 2 goldens had a pretty definitive diagnosis of hemangio sarc, although no definitive aspirates were done. My last girl, had a clean thoracic and abdominal ultrasound... the specialists insisted it was anaplasmosis.. I believe it was spinal cancer, but never got the diagnosis. And some breeders are much more open about the eye issues. The problem is if everyone isn't open, then people point fingers at the ones who have it out in the open.


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## Sally's Mom

One dog I have bred to twice had a dad who died young from a car accident... but it's not on K9 data... just the death date.


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## golden_eclipse

well with the car accident, that just doesn't make sense...and as an optimistic person, I can't help but see the blank COD, and think "oh maybe it was something else"...but deep inside I know it was likely cancer. I think if we knew generally what was thought to be the type of cancer, it would still be helpful, if not in a scientific way, at least qualitatively so. Especially as more information is discovered, having a solid record of the past can only help us make breeding decisions. 

I understand the idea that those who are open, and others aren't, it makes them look bad. But after getting more experienced, I'm worried when there isn't that information that is a little scary. Like if there are no failing results on OFA, or anything about PU/cancer/cataracts/ED/HD on K9 data, I assume, they aren't being open, vs. their line being far superior than other dogs of similar pedigrees.


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## hotel4dogs

I could be wrong, but isn't the COD line on k9data relatively new? Maybe people just aren't used to thinking about going in and adding it?


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## golden_eclipse

Its been there at least four years....Someone might know when exactly.


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## hotel4dogs

geez, seems like just yesterday. Yet another sign I'm getting old :doh:



kdowningxc said:


> Its been there at least four years....Someone might know when exactly.


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## golden_eclipse

haha....I'm 21 and 4 years doesn't seem that long, maybe its just a mind set


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## Megora

I'm not sure I want to see the COD.... but it'd be nice if people started putting the actual date of death in so the longevity part would be visible on some of these pedigrees.


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## Sally's Mom

We all used to put COD in honorifics.


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## Sally's Mom

And yes we are all getting old... I looked at change history on my first golden, and it was in 2009 that I took her COD out of honorifics and put it in COD... hasn't been around that long.(as I am pretty compulsive with k9 data). And as I said earlier, not all dogs that died young died of cancer... There are a number of big producing stud dogs in the Northeast who died relatively young (and their owners are respected) and there is no COD.


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## GoldenSail

Yes I wish it was more used...honestly I wish health issues were more openly discussed. 

I must say I have been impressed when looking at the flat coat pedigree database though. They have the opportunity to enter tons more information about the dogs and many do...anything from structural strengths and weaknesses to temperament and a list of health problems with dates, etc. Very cool. Would love to see that with goldens too.


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## golden_eclipse

For Allergies!! That would be SOO cool. These are the things breeder are shooting in the dark about. You can be informed, but only to a certain point, when breeders in the past were not in the habit of documenting even significant things like COD.... (still common now)

I thought it was 4 years since the COD was on k9data, but I must have been thinking of the COD's being in the honorifics. I spent a long time looking at k9data, before I decided on my sammy. His pedigree is pretty open as far as COD's and eye issues, but is also filled with dogs from breeders who are still around, and are easy to email and ask questions about a specific dog. Generally I don't think a reputable breeder would lie to someone asking specifically about a dog, even if they didn't feel comfortable putting that information out on k9data (for whatever reason I don't understand, I guess reputation...) That is generally my technique at least with dogs I am personally invested in...Sometimes that is much easier said than done, with a lot of breeders retiring, or don't have their contact information available anymore.


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## Sally's Mom

Personally, I say keep your eyes and ears open...


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## HiTideGoldens

Sally's Mom said:


> Personally, I say keep your eyes and ears open...


I agree with that... I don't put anything past anyone given some things I've been told and things I've seen, "reputable" or not. And I've only been "in dogs" for 2 years!


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## hotel4dogs

thanks, I feel better. I swore it was fairly recent, but time flies these days...



Sally's Mom said:


> And yes we are all getting old... I looked at change history on my first golden, and it was in 2009 that I took her COD out of honorifics and put it in COD... hasn't been around that long.(as I am pretty compulsive with k9 data). And as I said earlier, not all dogs that died young died of cancer... There are a number of big producing stud dogs in the Northeast who died relatively young (and their owners are respected) and there is no COD.


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## Selli-Belle

K9Data is operated on a completely volunteer basis (although they allow donations) and being on the K9data email list, you hear just how many headaches they have to deal with since people are allowed to enter their own data. In regards to the difference between the Flat Coat database and K9Data.....there are SOOOO many more Goldens than Flat-Coats that just keeping track of the data that K9Data does is a larger task than keeping track of more data per dog for Flat-Coats.

If you are interested in seeing a change in K9Data, join the email list or email Amy with your suggestions...she is very open to feasible changes that will improve the database.


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## golden_eclipse

It is a big big data-base, which has its benefits, verses a small database with more information. Although, I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to add a spot for a PU diagnoses, as of right now I find it difficult to find any information about an eye clearance failure vs. a hip/elbow failure. Often that eye clearance failure happens later in the dogs life, and its not that often to find it documented in an online database. I'll probably send an email, but I'm sure someone has already brought that up.


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## GoldenSail

I don't know the logistics of operating it so maybe it is out of the picture...but I still think it is pretty darn impressive to see all of that information openly shared. Of course, flat coat database you must purchase a membership or be a member of the FCRSA.

I don't know that it would be any better or worse than keeping your eyes or ears open. Frankly I get tired of the rumor mill and gossiping that goes on and don't consider all of that information viable, either.


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## HiTideGoldens

I agree, although I think if people were more forthcoming with information about the COD (as an example) of certain dogs then there wouldn’t be rumors, it would be known and be the truth. No one using any shred of logic could possibly think anyone wanted their dog to get lymphoma/PU/hemangio or whatever problem they have, especially if it’s something that ultimately took the dog’s life. That's why the secrecy doesn't make sense to me. It just fuels the rumor mill when it could be stopped very easily. All they have to do is give the information and let people make informed decisions. If someone is allowing their dog to be used in someone’s breeding program then they at least owe the bitch owners and puppy buyers that much. And k9data is a really easy way to do it. A very beautiful boy who I greatly admired passed away recently at a fairly young age and his breeder/owner had his k9data page updated in about 2 weeks to reflect the COD once it was known. I have a lot of respect for her for doing that.


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## GoldenSail

Michelle that is what I was thinking with the flat coat database and the extra information they have that can be put on individual dogs. Certainly if the actual owner takes the time to put in information that does not always paint the dog in the best light surely the info is likely accurate or what would be the motivation? (i.e. hemangiosarcoma, other health or behavioral problems, etc). 

Recently I was really impressed to find one breeder's website list all of her breedings and the problems encountered with the various litters. Wow. Talk about open and honesty. I certainly don't expect everyone to do that and can understand why people don't...but at the same time I have a lot of respect for someone who is wiling to do that and acknowledge up front the problems that they have seen in their lines.

And I do appreciate that we have the database and the hard work that goes into it. Perhaps it might be too much work for people to sort through with our breed but I am nonetheless impressed by what type of information the flat coat people are able to (and often do) put into their database.


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## Sally's Mom

There used to be an open health registry for goldens. When you signed on, you had to include all of your dogs AND agree to include all passes and all failures. Don't know what happened to it, don't know if people were forthcoming and as honest as they were supposed to be.


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## golden_eclipse

Recently I was really impressed to find one breeder's website list all of her breedings and the problems encountered with the various litters. Wow. Talk about open and honesty. 

Are you referring to Gaylan's goldens?

Genetic Diseases of Golden Retrievers


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## AmbikaGR

hotel4dogs said:


> thanks, I feel better. I swore it was fairly recent, but time flies these days...



Well 2009 is still *3* years ago. 
And I agree it was January 2009 COD was added, as that was when I moved Kizmet's COD from the "Honorifics" line. 

As to why some do not add the COD, I think are afraid to admit their "perfect" dog was not perfect. Silly yes, but in general humans tend to do silly things. 
A missing COD on a dog under 11 is more concerning to me than on a dog over 11.


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## AmbikaGR

kdowningxc said:


> Recently I was really impressed to find one breeder's website list all of her breedings and the problems encountered with the various litters. Wow. Talk about open and honesty.
> 
> Are you referring to Gaylan's goldens?
> 
> Genetic Diseases of Golden Retrievers



Gayle, Gaylans, keeps an INCREDIBLY WELL DETAILED history on every dog she has produced. Every possible health problem you can imagine. She is known to be pretty demanding of her puppy people, but she lets them know upfront she is that way and if they are not comfortable with it they need to go elsewhere for their pup.


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## GoldenSail

Nope actually it was someone else. I know it is a tall order, but I am impressed with what Gaylan's expects from their puppy buyers.


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## Sally's Mom

Gaylans has always been totally upfront, my second golden descended from her line. Star Crowned also seems to be up front..,


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## Sally's Mom

Gaylans goldens are not cheap....


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## ragtym

The OHR (Online Health Registry) was run by the same lady that runs K9 Data - Amy Raby.

If I remember correctly, a few years ago she ran into problems with the web host that was hosting K9 Data and the OHR. I think at the same time, she was working on opening K9 Data to Labs as well as Goldens and maintaining both. This was all while she was working full-time as a programmer.

I believe the decision was made to close down the OHR so that she could concentrate on expanding and improving K9 Data.


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