# E-collar



## the_real_george_forman (Jan 3, 2020)

Hi there! I'm sure many posts exist, but thought I'd try a new thread. We're thinking about getting an e-collar for our three year old to only wear when he is offleash in nature, etc. We plan to go to Oregon this summer (we go every summer) and never hike offleash with him unless we are in a flat/open area, or around a lake etc (we are aware of drop-offs and trail dangers)...but he will not return when he sees a deer etc. Last year he chased a buck into the street (fortunately rural area so no cars and it was a low speed limit) and I'm pretty sure if we'd had raw steak, he wouldn't have come to us. 
We live in downtown Chicago and don't plan to use the collar any other time except for offleash hiking on trips or camping. He isn't aggressive and our harness works well for everything we do. 
I'd love to talk to a trainer but I've had a tough time finding one that will discuss e-collars, or that won't try to sell a send-away two week program. We've had some training in classes on recall, and it works for normal city environments, but once his instinct kicks in we're at a dead end. 
Thanks for any thoughts! I know this is a contentious topic, we haven't decided one way or another on anything.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

I don't have any experience with e-collars. But I recommend if you move forward with this training, that you thoroughly vet who you get training from to make sure you are well trained and using the collar appropriately. IMO I would stay away from commercial trainers for this and specifically search out field and hunt trainers b/c they will be the ones who have the most experience sending dogs off leash with prey drive activated and relying on the e-collar as a fail safe should the recall not work. 

Beyond that, I think it's important to do work re: strengthening his recall in midst of distractions. If that means you're taking day trips on the weekend to areas where there are wildlife distractions or bringing those distractions to your backyard (there is another tread re: getting duck poop to bring home to train the dog in a more controlled setting re: ignoring duck poop). You want to expose your dog to a thousand plus sights and smells and reinforce his obedience in each situation (all on leash!) before you risk taking him off leash where the risk if he blows you off is far greater.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

I’m not a fan of e-collars but I agree with Brave, if you decide to go that route, please please please find a competent trainer to teach you how to use it correctly and fairly. Timing and intensity of corrections is key and it is way too easy for an inexperienced owner to turn a tool that provides the dog with information and consequences to something that unfairly punishes a dog for not obeying a command he doesn’t understand. I agree that your best bet is probably a skilled field trainer, though some “balanced” trainers may also have the requisite skills. Just remember to always be your dog’s advocate. If anything about the training feels more like abuse to you, be prepared to walk away and look for a different trainer.

Training a dog to have a really reliable recall, even in the face of something like running wildlife takes a LOT of hard work and consistency. I’ve never had a dog I would trust off leash and I take full responsibility for that. It is HARD. That said, it IS possible to train a reliable recall using positive methods. If you are interested, Susan Garrett offers a course called “Recallers” that might be worth checking out.

As part of your research you may want to check out a Facebook page called “Life with Rune.” Search her page for “e-collar” and you should find some helpful threads.


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## LisaLaughs (Nov 21, 2019)

I live in Oregon and hike trails in the woods daily with my rescue dog. Off-leash dogs are the bane of my existence. While your dog may not be aggressive, my leashed dog will have a total meltdown if approached by an unleashed dog. I'll spend at least the rest of the day dealing with her anxiety. Please keep your dog leashed, and be aware of the leash laws where you hike.


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## Nova Golden Dream (Oct 26, 2020)

I don't use an e-collar. But my family used them when training Labs for field trial events.

E-collar training doesn't work the way you want. You can't only use it when it is necessary. You have to slowly teach the dog what it means, and how to avoid/turn off the unpleasant stimulus. It works best on a dog already in training conditioned to learn who has a lot of drive to overcome the fear/anxiety it produces. 

It is a dangerous tool in the hands of someone who doesn't know how and when to use it. The dog has to understand exactly what caused the negative sensation. The dog will be trying to figure it out, and an inexperienced handler can cause the dog to associate the pain with something other than the intended issue. All the dogs I saw work with the e-collar experienced anxiety, but the successful one loved the retrieving game enough that it outweighed the anxiety. 

You can argue about whether e-collars are cruel when used by a knowledgeable user. 

I have also heard about friends and family using it incorrectly. They think the purpose is to zap a dog doing the wrong thing as a way of giving a long distance correction. I am convinced this is cruel as it is just causing pain for the purpose of punishment. It is also likely using a tool designed for training working dogs on a pet who doesn't know how to process the pain.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

There are many resources available that teach proper use or the e collar. Do a search here or pm me if you need help finding something. 
E collars are not cruel but some trainers are. The collar is nothing more than a tool and it is the single best tool there is for communicating with your dog, especially at distance.


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## 3goldens2keep (Feb 13, 2019)

Over the last 25+ years I have had all my dogs trainer for hunting and hunt tests. The trainers I used all included e collars as part the the field training. 

Do not consider using an e collar unless you and the dog are trained by a pro who uses e collars as part of their training. Improper use of an e collar can ruin your dog for training. 

Start looking for Field Trainers, most all field trainers use e collars and regularly train dogs and owners the proper use of e collars. Search for trainers for hunt tests or Field Trials....then call them and ask if they will train you and your dog on using an e collar and specifically train you dog to recall on command, supported by the e collar.....

Good luck


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## PalouseDogs (Aug 14, 2013)

I strongly suggest you buy Connie Cleveland's online course for ecollar training. It is $80. Watch the entire thing, including the 1-hour webinar at the end, several times before you use the collar.

Connie Cleveland trains dogs for field trials and obedience competition. Her husband trains dogs for scent detection and other types of work. She has also spent decades teaching OB classes. The course is very practical and geared towards people that want to have a dog that can be reliably allowed off-leash. Link:






The Obedience Road







www.onlineobediencetraining.com


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## the_real_george_forman (Jan 3, 2020)

LisaLaughs said:


> I live in Oregon and hike trails in the woods daily with my rescue dog. Off-leash dogs are the bane of my existence. While your dog may not be aggressive, my leashed dog will have a total meltdown if approached by an unleashed dog. I'll spend at least the rest of the day dealing with her anxiety. Please keep your dog leashed, and be aware of the leash laws where you hike.


LisaLaughs, thank you for your reply. Part of the reason we only have him offleash in open areas is so we can scan and leash him up if we see another dog approaching, but I totally understand. Generally, we're swimming in a river or lake but I know a lot of dogs are sensitive, especially with big/exuberant dogs, so we will be extra careful. Probably will end up leashing him and relying on our trust Ruffwear harness for 98% of our hiking.
We are always in Central Oregon, I hope you have a good hiking season!


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## the_real_george_forman (Jan 3, 2020)

PalouseDogs said:


> I strongly suggest you buy Connie Cleveland's online course for ecollar training. It is $80. Watch the entire thing, including the 1-hour webinar at the end, several times before you use the collar.
> 
> Connie Cleveland trains dogs for field trials and obedience competition. Her husband trains dogs for scent detection and other types of work. She has also spent decades teaching OB classes. The course is very practical and geared towards people that want to have a dog that can be reliably allowed off-leash. Link:
> 
> ...


Thanks for this!


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## the_real_george_forman (Jan 3, 2020)

3goldens2keep said:


> Over the last 25+ years I have had all my dogs trainer for hunting and hunt tests. The trainers I used all included e collars as part the the field training.
> 
> Do not consider using an e collar unless you and the dog are trained by a pro who uses e collars as part of their training. Improper use of an e collar can ruin your dog for training.
> 
> ...


Thanks you! I'll see what I can find in the NE IL, SE Wisconsin area!


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## the_real_george_forman (Jan 3, 2020)

SRW said:


> There are many resources available that teach proper use or the e collar. Do a search here or pm me if you need help finding something.
> E collars are not cruel but some trainers are. The collar is nothing more than a tool and it is the single best tool there is for communicating with your dog, especially at distance.


This is encouraging, thank you!


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## the_real_george_forman (Jan 3, 2020)

Brave said:


> I don't have any experience with e-collars. But I recommend if you move forward with this training, that you thoroughly vet who you get training from to make sure you are well trained and using the collar appropriately. IMO I would stay away from commercial trainers for this and specifically search out field and hunt trainers b/c they will be the ones who have the most experience sending dogs off leash with prey drive activated and relying on the e-collar as a fail safe should the recall not work.
> 
> Beyond that, I think it's important to do work re: strengthening his recall in midst of distractions. If that means you're taking day trips on the weekend to areas where there are wildlife distractions or bringing those distractions to your backyard (there is another tread re: getting duck poop to bring home to train the dog in a more controlled setting re: ignoring duck poop). You want to expose your dog to a thousand plus sights and smells and reinforce his obedience in each situation (all on leash!) before you risk taking him off leash where the risk if he blows you off is far greater.


Thank you! Great suggestions. Yeah, we've struggled with recall because we live downtown...it's either leash, or a dog park (which is way too stimulating), because testing any recall is just too dangerous when traffic is a constant presence. We didn't even know George had a prey drive until he chased deer last summer at age 2 (although his interest in squirrels/birds was a sure sign that we ignored). Come to think of it, he likes goose poop and bringing some home might be helpful as the larger problem is obviously...impulse control!! If we try this, we will be sure to get help from a carefully chosen trainer.


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## the_real_george_forman (Jan 3, 2020)

Nova Golden Dream said:


> I don't use an e-collar. But my family used them when training Labs for field trial events.
> 
> E-collar training doesn't work the way you want. You can't only use it when it is necessary. You have to slowly teach the dog what it means, and how to avoid/turn off the unpleasant stimulus. It works best on a dog already in training conditioned to learn who has a lot of drive to overcome the fear/anxiety it produces.
> 
> ...


Ah. Definitely huge factors here. Food for thought, thanks!


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## the_real_george_forman (Jan 3, 2020)

pawsnpaca said:


> I’m not a fan of e-collars but I agree with Brave, if you decide to go that route, please please please find a competent trainer to teach you how to use it correctly and fairly. Timing and intensity of corrections is key and it is way too easy for an inexperienced owner to turn a tool that provides the dog with information and consequences to something that unfairly punishes a dog for not obeying a command he doesn’t understand. I agree that your best bet is probably a skilled field trainer, though some “balanced” trainers may also have the requisite skills. Just remember to always be your dog’s advocate. If anything about the training feels more like abuse to you, be prepared to walk away and look for a different trainer.
> 
> Training a dog to have a really reliable recall, even in the face of something like running wildlife takes a LOT of hard work and consistency. I’ve never had a dog I would trust off leash and I take full responsibility for that. It is HARD. That said, it IS possible to train a reliable recall using positive methods. If you are interested, Susan Garrett offers a course called “Recallers” that might be worth checking out.
> 
> As part of your research you may want to check out a Facebook page called “Life with Rune.” Search her page for “e-collar” and you should find some helpful threads.


thanks!


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## LisaLaughs (Nov 21, 2019)

the_real_george_forman said:


> LisaLaughs, thank you for your reply. Part of the reason we only have him offleash in open areas is so we can scan and leash him up if we see another dog approaching, but I totally understand. Generally, we're swimming in a river or lake but I know a lot of dogs are sensitive, especially with big/exuberant dogs, so we will be extra careful. Probably will end up leashing him and relying on our trust Ruffwear harness for 98% of our hiking.
> We are always in Central Oregon, I hope you have a good hiking season!


I'm in Central Oregon! Sounds like you already know the area, but let me know if you need any recommendations.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I'm in Alaska and my dogs are off leash almost 100% of the time, as are almost all dogs here. In fact, when I see a dog on a leash, I immediately call my dogs to me, because that means the dog on the leash is a problem dog, and I need to keep my dogs away from that dog.
Sounds like your purpose of using the e-collar is for re-call, which is the main reason that most recreational people use e-collars. Up here in Alaska I see more dogs on e-collars than not. That's all kinds of dogs, from terriers to retrievers, and just about every single breed. And we all mainly use them for re-call, than anything else. We want to recall them because we see a bear or a moose or a porcupine. 
What needs to happen is that your dog has to understand what the command means first. As in "sit". If your dog doesn't understand what sit means, there's no point in using an e-collar for responding to "sit", since your dog doesn't know what you mean. Make a list of the commands that you want your dog to respond to. Is it sit, come, or whatever? Then look at each command and make sure your dog knows what those commands mean, and is your dog solid on those? Basically an e-collar reinforces commands. Like pulling on a leash to get your dog to come, that's what an e-collar will do.

Above someone mentions Connie Cleveland and her e-collar course. Connie is married to Pat Nolan. Pat has a really nice online book for pet owners wanting to use an e-collar. Push Pull Training
I'm a long time fan of Connie and Pat, and it's nice that they are married now. Whichever system you purchase, don't forget to get a good e-collar too.

On e-collars they have probes that need to be longer for golden fur. Some e-collars have short probes and won't work. Some e-collars have fixed probes and you can't change them out. Some collars come with probes of 2 different lengths, that's what you want. 
Next, will you be walking more than one dog on an e-collar? I walk as many as 3 dogs on e-collars at a time. So I have a multi dog controller, which enables me to switch between dogs. 
Not all controllers are easy to use. In a dangerous situation, you need to get the information to the dog quickly. You need a controller you don't have to look at, and know which buttons you are pushing. Garmin 550 is like that. I really like how easy it is to use without looking at it. Garmin PRO 550
Also one thing to keep in mind, a gazillion levels doesn't matter. Most of the time my dogs are on 2 different levels and that's it. My controller gives me 30 levels, and I only use 2. I know a lot of controllers have 150 levels. Well who cares how many levels if you only need a few? 

Whatever you select for collar/transmitter, they are a big expense, so select wisely. Don't go cheap, it won't go well. For years I owned a Tritronics (now Garmin) Sport. I fought with that thing forever because I had 3 dogs and had to continuously look at it to figure out what I was doing. Best thing I did was spend the money and get the 550.

One last thought, there are sometimes battles you cannot win. When my dogs have found a salmon carcass in the creek, there will be nothing I can do to get them to come back. So don't expect that e-collar to magically bring your dog back in all circumstances.


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## Atlasdog (Sep 30, 2020)

Love my ecollar. My dog loves it 100% more. He goes wild once I even bring it out! I have a Garmin. There is a beginner video on YouTube if you search Garmin e collar. We had a trainer help us use it but he used that style of training and recommended the video to watch before we started. My dog uses it on level 1-2/10 now. Barely any stimulus needed. Look into the YouTube video and see if it helps


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Atlasdog said:


> Love my ecollar. My dog loves it 100% more. He goes wild once I even bring it out!


A good sign that you are using it correctly or, at least, not misusing it.


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## Beau-Bear (Jun 2, 2021)

Great info. I will look it up and research e-collar by Garmin. A neighbor mentioned to me that I might like to get a shock collar. my golden retriever is 9 mos old this week. I'm looking at options for his own safety and others because he is jumping on people and pulls leash aggressively when a dog appears or people too. I've spent thousands of $$$ on training. While he is a great well behaved boy most of the time, there's the other percent that could be a problem. Especially since I live in a very populated area. I mean there is no place to go which is isolated to let him run free. Unless I went at 4 a.m. And that's not going to happen. And dog parks are chaotic. California has tons of dog parks. my trainer Warned me do not bring him to dog parks. I think I need to try this e-collar. I would use it for training only and as little frequency as possible. It's my LAST RESORT.
As they say, The nature of the golden is excitable and friendly. Love my boy!


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## ChrisFromOC (Sep 19, 2018)

Beau-Bear said:


> Great info. I will look it up and research e-collar by Garmin. A neighbor mentioned to me that I might like to get a shock collar. my golden retriever is 9 mos old this week. I'm looking at options for his own safety and others because he is jumping on people and pulls leash aggressively when a dog appears or people too. I've spent thousands of $$$ on training. While he is a great well behaved boy most of the time, there's the other percent that could be a problem. Especially since I live in a very populated area. I mean there is no place to go which is isolated to let him run free. Unless I went at 4 a.m. And that's not going to happen. And dog parks are chaotic. California has tons of dog parks. my trainer Warned me do not bring him to dog parks. I think I need to try this e-collar. I would use it for training only and as little frequency as possible. It's my LAST RESORT.
> As they say, The nature of the golden is excitable and friendly. Love my boy!


I use an e-collar, but for the sole purpose of ensuring a solid recall in certain off leash situations. One really important thing to note is that it cannot be a tool for teaching a behavior, and should only be used to correct or enforce a behavior that the dog has already learned and mastered. I personally would really hesitate to employ it to prevent behaviors such as jumping on people or other things that I consider sort of typical young golden (or dog of any sort) types of behaviors. My dog has been trained for one response when he feels the stimulation, and that is to find me and return asap. He would be very confused if I were to employ it as a correction for any other sort of unwanted behavior, as it was not introduced to him that way. I was very, very concerned about introducing this tool and hired a trainer who was reallhelpful in teaching how to use it for this limited purpose. When my boy sees the collar he knows it is time to run free, so he’s really excited. I used it extensively during trips to the mountains in CO as I was concerned about him chasing something, but it turned out that he stays pretty close to us all the time when hiking. I also use it at our local dog beach to make sure that I have the absolute ability to call him back to me if needed, without hesitation.

I use a Sport Dog collar, and Ziggy works on level 2 out of 21. Good luck, and please do seek out a reputable trainer with experience with these tools. Also, a website called gundogsupply has a great selection and prices, and also includes a free training series from Robin McFarland which I found to be really helpful to view in addition to working with a trainer.


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## Beau-Bear (Jun 2, 2021)

I bought it from Gun Dog and they sent me the training video too! 🇺🇸👍


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## JulesAK (Jun 6, 2010)

I just attended a workshop this weekend that really opened my eyes to how e-collars can be used in a really good way by a trained person. I agree that up here in Alaska you see the majority of dogs on hikes wearing an e-collar. It can be the difference between life and death for a dog on a trail when you meet a bear, moose or porcupine. You have no idea how your dog will react when they meet one of these for the first time. It makes me sad when I see people using them incorrectly but I was very happy to see this whole other side to them.
Jules


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

JulesAK said:


> I just attended a workshop this weekend that really opened my eyes to how e-collars can be used in a really good way by a trained person. I agree that up here in Alaska you see the majority of dogs on hikes wearing an e-collar. It can be the difference between life and death for a dog on a trail when you meet a bear, moose or porcupine. You have no idea how your dog will react when they meet one of these for the first time. It makes me sad when I see people using them incorrectly but I was very happy to see this whole other side to them.
> Jules


I got one (Garmin Pro 550) and Logan was conditioned to it and trained by someone who is both one of our competition obedience trainers and she also trains service dogs, has trained her dogs to be master hunters, and she does field work with her dogs. She then trained me so I could use the collar properly. She said to only use it for come and sit (and sit is equivalent to stay.) Logan knows both of those commands well.

Since the initial training, I've barely had to use it and then only at a pretty low level (3) I can use on myself without feeling pain. It feels like a tens unit. I don't love tens units, but I don't think ouch. It's just an unusual sensation. I put it on him regularly (before meals and other random times) when we are just chilling in the house. I also have it on him for neighborhood walks, but I walk him on his flat leash and collar. Sometimes we go down to our pond/watershed area and I let him sniff around off leash. I do that much more in the winter when I think snakes aren't out and about.

I love it because it is enabling me to let Logan run and play freely in the meadows where we have our home in Cashiers, NC. It's bear country and I've also seen fox, deer, rabbits, white squirrels, and rabbits. I work a lot with Logan with recall, so he is pretty good -- but I'm not taking chances in bear country. I want to be able to call him away before he gets close enough to antagonize one. I've only seen one bear while Logan was with me, even though I saw six in our neighborhood last summer. Logan was on a regular leash and flat collar at the time and he listened when I told him to stop and back up. He, apparently, has no interest in hanging out with bears either. lol

Oh, and I bought the Connie Cleveland course referenced above. It's very helpful. Every video I've watched by her is very helpful. She's a great trainer.

North Carolina does not have a leash law, but I get where people don't want dogs to run up to them or their leashed dogs. I hate when people allow their dogs to do that. We have a couple of e-collar users in my neighborhood here in South Carolina (where we do have a leash law) and they are awful about letting their dogs do that. If I hiked with Logan off leash, I'd keep him near enough where I can recall him and use a grab line for when we walk by people and their dogs.

I've never seen a Moose in person. I just googled their weight in comparison to black bears. Moose are huge.


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## JulesAK (Jun 6, 2010)

diane0905 said:


> I got one (Garmin Pro 550) and Logan was conditioned to it and trained by someone who is both one of our competition obedience trainers and she also trains service dogs, has trained her dogs to be master hunters, and she does field work with her dogs. She then trained me so I could use the collar properly. She said to only use it for come and sit (and sit is equivalent to stay.) Logan knows both of those commands well.
> 
> Since the initial training, I've barely had to use it and then only at a pretty low level (3) I can use on myself without feeling pain. It feels like a tens unit. I don't love tens units, but I don't think ouch. It's just an unusual sensation. I put it on him regularly (before meals and other random times) when we are just chilling in the house. I also have it on him for neighborhood walks, but I walk him on his flat leash and collar. Sometimes we go down to our pond/watershed area and I let him sniff around off leash. I do that much more in the winter when I think snakes aren't out and about.
> 
> ...


I have never used one but can definitely see that it is a tool in the toolbox. I do have a TENS unit so agree with that comparison based on what I felt when I had it on my arm at the workshop. 
Logan sounds very "bear aware" as we say up here  The bears here usually just walk away but we have had dogs killed that ran up to them. Moose are a whole different story and are so unpredictable. We are lucky that we have very few here. 
I still  hike with Maggie on a bungie leash around my waist most of the time. She does great on her pack hikes with the other dogs. 
Well I had better get off here. Maggie is crying and pouting because the Papillon is on her bed  
Jules


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Good to know that more people are realizing that the e collar is a great training tool rather than an evil torture device.


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## Zerpersande (9 mo ago)

Nova Golden Dream said:


> I have also heard about friends and family using it incorrectly. They think the purpose is to zap a dog doing the wrong thing as a way of giving a long distance correction. I am convinced this is cruel as it is just causing pain for the purpose of punishment. It is also likely using a tool designed for training working dogs on a pet who doesn't know how to process the pain.


Point #1- Agree that it isn’t used as punishment. It’s used to reinforce KNOWN COMMANDS. If the dog has been trained to ‘Leave it!’, and has demonstrated an understanding of that command, then a correction with an e collar is appropriate.

Point #2- An e collar isn’t just for working dogs. As for ‘processing the pain’ perhaps you don’t understand that to properly condition a dog to an e collar the working level is set to where the dog first shows ANY reaction to the stim. I’ve tested it on myself and classifying the level that the stim noticeable as painful is laughable. 

I’m going to introduce my boy to the e collar after he reaches 6 months. I’ve already purchased an Educator EZ-900, largely because the stimulation is done using the same type of pulse used in the TENS units used for physical therapy. Additionally, I’m considering purchasing a second receiver as using 2 receivers ensures consistent contact regardless of posture and allows for the collar to be fitted more loosely. Ensuring positive contact is especially important with long haired, doubled-coated dogs. It’s an added expense but my goal is to fully trust my dog off-leash. To me, the ability to move around off-leash is a gift to a dog that far outweighs any discomfort the dog experiences ’opening that gift’.


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## Zerpersande (9 mo ago)

LisaLaughs said:


> While your dog may not be aggressive, my leashed dog will have a total meltdown if approached by an unleashed dog. I'll spend at least the rest of the day dealing with her anxiety. Please keep your dog leashed, and be aware of the leash laws where you hike.


Although my dog may be off-leash he is reasonably close unless the area is such that unexepected encounters with humans/dogs is extremely low. So he won’t be approaching you. And since there is no leash law in my area, I’ll have him, off-leash when such is safe.


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## 3goldens2keep (Feb 13, 2019)

the_real_george_forman said:


> Thanks you! I'll see what I can find in the NE IL, SE Wisconsin area!


This part of the USA has a large number of good gun dog trainers. Our current pup is training now in IL. Search on this site and do a general search for Gun dog trainers, or Field Dog Trainers....

Good Luck


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