# Utility Articles



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

So, I've finally started training articles and I'm using my own knowledge of learning to decide how to do them vs. conforming to the method the woman I train with uses. (I'm not protesting her method, just can't get in to see her for a while and wanted to start.)

I started with some pick ups of a hot article - just one. Didn't do that very long. Then I went to two articles, 1 hot, 1 cold. Did that until 80% success at which point I noticed if he'd p/u the wrong one, he'd instantly put it down and pick up the correct one. I was worried he was "guessing" - or that he'd figured out that since I hadn't clicked, he was wrong and needed the other one. I didn't want him to potentially become dependent on hearing my click to know if he was right, so at that point, I added a 3rd article so he can't go, "If not A, then must be B". (Cuz if he's sampling the three, I know he doesn't really get the concept of finding my smell.) Anyway - he nailed it with the three.

I'm not using a tie down board or anything - just a clicker.

I'm going to do a few more sessions with three in the pile before moving on.

BUT - my question is -- at what point did you guys add other scent? I'm working my hot scent and clean articles. I know people who have waited too long to add "other" scent and it's messed up their dogs for a while. I'm trying to avoid that.

SO -- when do you start having other people scent your "cold" articles?

Thanks!

-Stephanie


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Right now I'm thinking I'll work up to a pile of 6 (all same material) in at least two different locations (like indoors where we work now and outside) and THEN start having other people scent them. Hmmmm....


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

My dogs rarely get their other articles scented since I live alone. Whenever I happen to be around someone else when I'm training is when they get added scent. I don't really worry about where I am in the process - it's never made a difference.

Be very careful using a clicker to train articles. The biggest cause of problems in scent discrimination is uncertainty on the part of the dog if they are correct. The dog gets used to being told they are right, and then when that help goes away they don't know if they are right or not. That is when you start to see slow walking in, putting articles down, and freezing in the pile.

I always teach my dogs that if they're wrong on articles, I'll let them know immediately. Silence means they're right, so as soon as they pick up an article and don't hear anything from me, they come in confidently knowing they are right. I know you didn't ask for that advice, but I know people who have used a clicker for this that later said they were sorry they did.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Loisiana said:


> I always teach my dogs that if they're wrong on articles, I'll let them know immediately. Silence means they're right, so as soon as they pick up an article and don't hear anything from me, they come in confidently knowing they are right. I know you didn't ask for that advice, but I know people who have used a clicker for this that later said they were sorry they did.


So at what point do you praise the dog? Once he brings it all the way back to you? At which point, you're rewarding the entire chain... How do let your dogs know, in the very early stages, that they're right as soon as they select the article with *your* scent on it?

Interesting point about the clicker. I'll have to think about how that might happen - and more importantly - how to avoid it. My thought is that, as with any clicked behavior, once the dog *knows* it, the clicker is no longer needed, so I would envision having faded the clicker before the dog becomes dependent on immediately knowing if he was right or not. 

We're both sitting right on top of the pile at this stage. My plan is to start to add distance to the retrieve and delay the click along the way. So right now he gets the click for putting his mouth on the right one (and incidentally, he's choosing to pick it up and hand it to me even after hearing the click). Later, he'll have to choose it and take 2 steps toward me before getting the click, then choose + 4 steps toward me, then choose + 6 steps toward me until eventually the click is delayed until the point where he's fully in front of me with it. I'm hoping that doing it THAT way will prevent lagging from him waiting to hear if he's right or not.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

FlyingQuizini said:


> So at what point do you praise the dog? Once he brings it all the way back to you? At which point, you're rewarding the entire chain... How do let your dogs know, in the very early stages, that they're right as soon as they select the article with *your* scent on it?


In my very early stages of training, I'm right in the pile. Then I slowly back up. I train using squeeze cheese on the articles, and they're pretty much never wrong when a big line of smelly cheese is there. After they lick off the cheese, I give them their retrieve command. After a few sessions I can drop the command, they figure out it is implied. By the time I fade the cheese they have a long history of grabbing the smely article and returning immediately, so they know what they're supposed to do. If they grab a wrong one I immediately let them know (I tell them "no" and walk in to remove the article from them. I don't allow them to put articles down themselves - once you pick up you've committed. To avoid picking up and putting down articles, which is scorable).

If you can't tell, althought I don't strictly follow it I base most of my method on Jan DeMello's Around the Clock.

I think just as important as knowing what you want to do to tell the dog they're right is knowing how you plan to handle what you'll do when the dog is wrong. I think it was last year Conner had gone months and months and months without ever taking a wrong article. So one day when he did grab a wrong article in practice I was caught so off guard that I complete forgot what I was supposed to do!


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

I trained Jersey on articles using the clicker. Actually, re-trained him from square one after he totally shut down on them. It's been fantastic for us! I basically followed the method outlined in Clicker Training For Obedience by Morgan Spector. I started off holding two articles at the ends, one scented on the dowel, and clicking for targeting the right article. I liked that this taught him to ignore the lighter/colder scent and focus on the more heavily scented item because I figure at one time or another I'm going to touch every single article. Once he was consistently going to the right one regardless of which side it was on (generally following the 80% rule), I held them on the ground, then just had them on the ground all with clicking for just targeting the right one. This part moved pretty fast with Jersey so I upped the criteria for him to mouth the correct article (still using only 2). It was no time at all before he was picking it up and bringing it to me as he already had a strong retrieve trained from open/field/life. At that point I switched to clicking only when the correct article was brought all the way back to me. From there we increased the number of articles gradually. The book describes it far better than I do, but that's the basic premise. I think the early switch to clicking for a full retrieve keeps the dog from waiting for that click to make a decision. 

Outside of what's in the book, I found that working in the dark was helpful for really ingraining that he needed to sniff it out -- so I'd put the pile in a dark corner of the yard at night and have him bring it back to me on the patio where I could see which one he had. At times when I've felt he's looking for a sign from me (saw this the most when I started using mixed piles of metal and leather -- plus I've been known to have unintentional body language slip out now and then, LOL) we switched to working between rooms so that I'm out of sight while he's doing his job. A few of those and I find he's back on top of it.

Right now we're working on as many different locations as we can manage, but all in all his performance is getting there quickly. As I'm sure you work Quiz much more consistently that I manage with Jersey, I have no doubt you guys will figure it out in no time. Good luck!

Julie and Jersey


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

I used the tie down method, or actually, I used cut off hangers and staked down the article(s) into the grass. I started with 1 article finding it in different locations using her nose then increased to 2 articles with the "cold" one staked down. I did not move ahead until she was solid in choosing the scented article. I really did not start having someone else scent an article until she was solid on choosing the correct article from a full pile without another scent.

Baylee has been making the correct selection for years with consistency but recently she started goofing up with the metal. Shirley Chong who has Click Train suggested that possibly the metal articles have oxidized somewhat and are putting off an unpleasant taste. Not sure if that is the reason metal has become a new problem, but I can say that way back when we first started articles it was so cool to see that light bulb come on that finally said "oh I get it"! How fun was that!

Now if I can only get this silly girl of mine to carry over her skills to the actual trial when mom gets nervous and throws her completely off. That is a whole separate issue.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Jersey's Mom said:


> As I'm sure you work Quiz much more consistently that I manage with Jersey, I have no doubt you guys will figure it out in no time. Good luck!


Oh, you flatter me! 

Seriously, though, thanks for the input on using the clicker. Glad it worked well for you. Seems like the trick is not waiting too long to start delaying the click until some actual retrieve criteria has been met.


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

I am also training scent articles right now, with various degrees of success! If only we only used wooden articles, he would be perfect.
I have also been warned by several experienced trainers about using a clicker to train this exercise (it was the first thing I thought to do, clicker queen that I am!) Stories of dogs looking at you expectantly for a response at the pile are abundant. I do two articles at a time until 90%, then 3 etc. He can do any number of wood now, but only metal if there is no wood available. I haven't even thought about adding the leather ones yet! My coach, who is know for her great utility dogs, tells me not to ever reward or correct at the pile, only when they get back to you. She seldom corrects at all for this exercise, except to not reward, because it is one where the dog knows much more than you about what is going on in the pile!! 
I too expect that you will have this mastered in no time at all!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Ohhh! I love the idea of him working the pile out of sight. Tried that today b/c I could see he was starting to think about my response. Worked great. Now I'm going to set up a video camera so I can see him working the pile out of sight.

I also stopped using tongs to arrange the cold articles and I'm just carefully touching the bell. Want to teach him to focus in hottest concentration of my scent, not just ANY concentration of my scent. So far so good.

This is fun!


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Ohhh! I love the idea of him working the pile out of sight. Tried that today b/c I could see he was starting to think about my response. Worked great. Now I'm going to set up a video camera so I can see him working the pile out of sight.
> 
> I also stopped using tongs to arrange the cold articles and I'm just carefully touching the bell. Want to teach him to focus in hottest concentration of my scent, not just ANY concentration of my scent. So far so good.
> 
> This is fun!


I do the same thing to arrange the articles. Actually, I have no idea where my thongs are right now! LOL I think it was just the natural flow of things after the way I started as I was touching the "cold" article right from the start.

Glad to hear you guys had a productive day. I brought Jersey and his articles to my staff picnic today in a new park and we had great success in the new location! (That's the one part I really need to step up with now, getting out to novel locations) Now if we could just nail our go-outs we'd be pretty much ready to go!

Julie and Jersey


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Jersey's Mom said:


> Actually, I have no idea where my thongs are right now!


No comment needed for that one! :

I don't use tongs (or thongs ) when putting out my articles either. But I am very careful to only touch the ends. They know to smell the bars not the ends. I don't want my dogs having to compare articles to determine which has the strongest scent of me.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Jersey's Mom said:


> Actually, I have no idea where my thongs are right now! LOL


Um. I thought we were talking utility articles, not underwear?!? :curtain:


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Seriously, though... I'm glad to see it's not a problem to touch the bars. I kept the first 5 training sessions super pure by using tongs, then said, "screw it!" and started touching the bells!

We did a new location in the house tonight and went 5/5 trials! Next session, I'm adding a 4th cold article to the pile. 

Do people mostly train all one material first before combining?


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

What's so funny? You mean you _don't _use your thongs when teaching articles?? I think they make a good article lasso!! Yikes! There's a mental image for ya... :doh: Well, that's the problem with a browser that has built-in spell check... I tend to not read what I'm typing all too closely! LOL!! Lesson learned. (until next time :curtain

Sorry for the delayed response, been a busy week so far!! I taught a full metal pile first, then a full leather, and then started mixing piles. That way, by the time he had to choose between materials, I was certain that he knew what he was looking for. I'm sure there's other ways of doing it but that worked well for us. How's Quiz coming along?? 

Julie and Jersey


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Jersey's Mom said:


> Sorry for the delayed response, been a busy week so far!! I taught a full metal pile first, then a full leather, and then started mixing piles. That way, by the time he had to choose between materials, I was certain that he knew what he was looking for. I'm sure there's other ways of doing it but that worked well for us. How's Quiz coming along??
> 
> Julie and Jersey


I think it's going well - thanks for asking. We're on a full metal pile and I've worked it in all different parts of the apartment and four different locations outside in the courtyard. The only session I logged as a disaster was the one I decided to do out in light rain. That initially threw him way off and I had four incorrect pick-ups before he figured out I wanted the same thing, even in the rain.

I loved your idea of Jersey working the pile OOS and have done a lot of that. I seem to intermittently get a pause before he returns. It's intermittent, so I'm not worrying too much about it (and it's still early - been less than a week since we've started training) and I just give a "come" cue, figuring I'll fade it over time like I did for the dumbbell retrieve.

I'm putting the six metals out in all sorts of patterns. The hardest is when it's in the middle.

Not sure if I want to introduce the "other" scent on metal before I switch to leather, or if I'll switch to leather and THEN introduce other scent.

At what point did you start alternating which article you used as the hot one? I'm teaching all on the same hot one, although I do air it out each night.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Hey Steph, was thinking of you and Quiz today... how's the training going? 

Missed your question earlier... it's probably best to switch up the scented article sooner rather than later. Can't speak from experience though. I keep forgetting to take my 6s out of the bag, so they stay in the stuffy compartment without ventilation and I figure they haven't really aired out. Now that you've prompted my memory, I'm going to pull them out now and give them some time to "cool off," so to speak. Thanks!

Julie and Jersey


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Hey Julie,

Thanks for checking in!

We hit success with piles of 6 for both metal and leather, so now I've moved up to introducing "other" scent. That was definitely harder, so I went back to my one "hot" article and just two "other" to start and worked my way back up to one "hot" and five "other". I'm also alternating working indoors and outdoors. I think once I get a handful of successful training sessions working "other" scent, I'll start mixing the pile.

I'm really trying to be good and work them everyday - even if I don't have access to "other" scent -- like late at night when I get home from work.

I'm still using the same "hot" article, but I air it out each night. I want to get through a bit more "other scent" training before I start switching up the hot one.

I think so far so good....


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Glad to hear it's going so well! Quiz is a smart boy, he'll have it down in no time!

Julie and Jersey


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