# Ben collapsed last night, but seems fine now



## AmberSunrise

Good morning,

I am glad to hear Ben seems to have slept well, but sorry he collapsed. I have no medical insights for you, but have had older dogs collapse and be fine by the time the vet sees them. It is scary and I always start blessing every moment I have with them when it happens and they recover.

Keeping Ben in my thoughts today.


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## GoldieMad

Thanks for your words of reassurance.  Sorry to hear that you've also been through this with your older dogs.

Ben does seem rather lethargic right now, did you find that when your older dogs had similar problems it made them more lethargic for perhaps a few days (or hours) after the event?


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## goldensmum

This happened to Holly about 5 times - she was 13 when it first happened, and scared the £$%^ out of us. We rushed her to the vet, carried her in because she was completely unable to walk, and we feared the worst. After about 20 minutes she sat up looked round as if to say"what's going on" and she seemed fine. After checking heart etc, our vet said she had had a minor stroke, and it would likely happen again. She was quieter for about a day and then back to normal. This happened as I say about 5 times - no warning whatsover - she would just drop.

Our vet did say that usually they show signs of recovery after about 20 - 25 minutes, so if it did happen again we would be prepared, and each time she took about 15 minutes to come round.

Hugs to Ben


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## Dallas Gold

This happened to us on January 14 2010 with our 12 year 8 mo old golden Barkley. His diagnosis: hemangiosarcoma.

Please, if your vet didn't do x-rays of your dog's spleen, get xrays taken as soon as possible. Also, get a red blood cell count.

I hope you find the cause of the collapse. Having been in your shoes, I sympathize with what you are going through right now.


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## GoldieMad

goldensmum said:


> This happened to Holly about 5 times - she was 13 when it first happened, and scared the £$%^ out of us. We rushed her to the vet, carried her in because she was completely unable to walk, and we feared the worst. After about 20 minutes she sat up looked round as if to say"what's going on" and she seemed fine. After checking heart etc, our vet said she had had a minor stroke, and it would likely happen again. She was quieter for about a day and then back to normal. This happened as I say about 5 times - no warning whatsover - she would just drop.
> 
> Our vet did say that usually they show signs of recovery after about 20 - 25 minutes, so if it did happen again we would be prepared, and each time she took about 15 minutes to come round.
> 
> Hugs to Ben


So sorry to hear that you went through this with Holly. Thankfully Ben was looking around after just a few second and up and about approximately 10 minutes later (we may have been able to get him up sooner but we thought it best to let him rest for a bit and he would have been very difficult to pick up where he was).

You say that it happened to Holly about 5 times - was this spread over a few weeks or months, were the intervals between the collapses regular or variable? I only ask just to help understand Ben's condition a bit more.

Did the vet put Holly on any medication, change of diet, etc?

Thanks.


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## GoldieMad

Dallas Gold said:


> This happened to us on January 14 2010 with our 12 year 8 mo old golden Barkley. His diagnosis: hemangiosarcoma.
> 
> Please, if your vet didn't do x-rays of your dog's spleen, get xrays taken as soon as possible. Also, get a red blood cell count.
> 
> I hope you find the cause of the collapse. Having been in your shoes, I sympathize with what you are going through right now.


Thanks very much for the advice, I'll look into that. Is Barkley responding well to treatment?


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## Dallas Gold

Dog-drops said:


> Thanks very much for the advice, I'll look into that. Is Barkley responding well to treatment?


Barkley's first treatment went well. His second one is set for 2/15. If we didn't know he has a terminal illness we wouldn't suspect it. The only tell-tale sign now is he is a little slower walking up the inclines and he rests a little more. 

As you know hemangiosarcoma is called the silent killer. When Barkley collapsed on his morning walk we first thought he suffered a stroke, but the lab work and x-rays proved otherwise. The bleeds in hemangiosarcoma apparently mimic stroke symptoms in some dogs.


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## GoldieMad

Good to hear that Barkley is doing well so far.


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## AmberSunrise

In one of my goldens cases (King), it was probably hemangiosarcoma, since he died of liver cancer at 14 1/2 but I am unsure of what type exactly. He was operated on for an obstruction and not allowed to wake up when his cancer was discovered since he had no healthy liver left.

In another goldens case (Rowdy), it was most likely caused by temporary oxygen deprivation due to larangeal paralysis. He died of aspiration pneumonia following the surgery to correct this.

In my 17 year old German Shepard Earl, I think it was just plain old age. His body and mind were giving out slowly and we ended up needing to put him down although there was no obvious disease going on. 

So, each dog was different although each recovered quickly (within seconds not minutes or days) and lasting harm was never noticed. But in each case, it was indicative of the need to start truly enjoying their company and watching for the need for medical intervention.


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## CarolinaCasey

Just wishing Ben the best! Give him some hugs from PA!


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## GoldieMad

Thanks for the information. So very sad.


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## GoldieMad

CarolinaCasey said:


> Just wishing Ben the best! Give him some hugs from PA!


Thanks, will do.


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## twinny41

This happened to my Meg too about 3 months before her 15th birthday. She was walking through the living room and just collapsed and I was sure she was dying. It was 11pm at night and I called my sister, don't know why I didn't call the vet. Anyway, we sat with her and talked to her, I pphoned work to say I wouldn't be in the next day and waited. She was out for about 30 - 45 mins, then all of a sudden she raised her head and looked around as if she was surprised to see us there! Frightened me half to death.
She was never really right afterwards though and the next day I had to help her up to go out holding her upright, she did manage to walk solo again but was always very slow and only as far as the garden. Never did know wht it was and unfortunately i lost her 3 months later.
Sending Ben best wishes and hope he makes good progress. It's so hard watching them age.


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## coppers-mom

I am glad Ben had a good night and hope he has this happen again!

My last Golden would have small seizures occasionally and they seemed to similar to Ben. They never figured out what caused them. I had valium tablets to give him afterwards. They only lasted a few minutes. The main symptom I can think if right now is that his jaw would lock - you could not even pry it open until the seizure passed. He would take a day or two to completely recover.

Good luck with your guy.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom

No medical advice, but am sending lots of warm, healthy thoughts and prayers. Please give that sweet boy an ear rub from us.


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## tippykayak

It could easily have been a small stroke, though I hope it was really just a case of an old man straining to poo and having a spike and drop in blood pressure.

When a Golden is 15, my reaction to that kind of situation would be different than with a younger dog. I'd make sure he was comfy and might have some bloodwork done, but I wouldn't put him through sedation for an x-ray unless there was a health crisis. 

If you're sure he was slowing down in the few days leading up to the faint, it may be that something more serious is going on, but after a consult with the vet, I'd just spoil the old guy rotten and see what happens, rather than beginning a heroic medical intervention.


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## GoldieMad

Thanks again for all the thoughtful and helpful replies.

Re possibility of a seizure and the slight defacation- there were no muscle tremors, stiffening of the legs, clamped jaws, etc and he was also walking when it happened so he wasn't trying to go to the loo either. He basically just went down on his back legs then over onto his side with no apparent warning.

Now he does suffer from arthritis, in his rear legs especially, so it's tempting to think that his back legs gave out due to the arthritis, but then that doesn't explain why he was unresponsive for a few seconds - my wife thought he was dead at first, but it looks like he may have just passed out. Unless of course his rear legs gave out and he went over and banged his head, but he was on soft, thick grass at the time. Then again maybe he was just shocked/stunned.

Very hard to say as I didn't see it and it's a bit of a blur to my wife (plus it was dark and the torch wasn't that bright). We'll closely monitor him of course.


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## cubbysan

This happened to my Zeus. I had him in a kennel outside, and was bringing him in the house, holding onto his collar, when he collapsed. He just laid there lifeless, I thought he was dead. I had my other GSD by the collar in my other had, and ran in the house with her. When I came back, he was just starting to come back, I picked him up and carried him into the house (don't know how - I was 9 months pregnant and he was 80 lbs!) He then started to walk around and then tried to go upstairs, and fell. He was though able to walk around, and I fed him to make sure he would eat.

As I was waiting for the vet to open, he did not want to go outside, so I had to take him out on his leash. He peed blood.

When I called the vet, they had me check his tongue and gums, they were white, not one bit of pink. 

The reason he collapsed was because his blood was not getting any oxygen, he was essentially suffocating and internally bleeding. I had to put him down later that day, before any of the blood work came back to determine if he had cancer or not. According to the x-rays, and the in house bloodwork, it was pointing that direction. He showed no signs before that day, except maybe slowing down a little bit, but that could have been from old age too.

I would keep an eye on the color of his tongue and gums, and possibly even watch his pee.


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## GoldieMad

That's terrible, so sorry to hear that. 

When I phoned the vet she got me to check his gums and they were fine. I'll keep an eye on the rest.


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## BeauShel

My Beau suffered from seizures and not all seizures were the stiff legged, frothing at hte mouth, thrashing. There were some where he just collapsed and laid there without being aware of his surroundings. They started when he was 11 and he lived for 2 more years having them but every seizure seemed to take something out of him. He did have a bad heart which didnt help. 
I pray that Ben will be ok and have no more episodes, they can be scary. You are very blessed to have him so long. Good luck. My first golden was named Ben and was so special to me.


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## GoldieMad

I see, I always thought that seizures involved frothing at the mouth, shaking, etc.

Just as an aside, if the dog starts to froth and is in danger of biting his tongue, what should be done?

Ben was also my first Golden - I've had three others since, one of which (Barney) sadly died unexpectedly when he was only nine.


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## BeauShel

If there is a grand mal seizure you dont do anything but just pet him and stay calm. They usually dont do anything to hurt their tongue. Here is a website that might help you with some information. http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/CanineEpil.htm


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## Oaklys Dad

Ben will be in our thoughts. Give the old boy lots of attention.


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## GoldieMad

BeauShel said:


> If there is a grand mal seizure you dont do anything but just pet him and stay calm. They usually dont do anything to hurt their tongue. Here is a website that might help you with some information. http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/CanineEpil.htm


Most helpful, many thanks.


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## GoldieMad

Oaklys Dad said:


> Ben will be in our thoughts. Give the old boy lots of attention.


Will do - he's looking at me now as it's time for his tea ...........


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## Duke's Momma

I was also going to say a petit-mal seizure. Especially with the slight bm. I'm glad he seems on the mend now, though. Grand fella that he is. Want pictures.


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## Dallas Gold

tippykayak said:


> If you're sure he was slowing down in the few days leading up to the faint, it may be that something more serious is going on, but after a consult with the vet, I'd just spoil the old guy rotten and see what happens, rather than beginning a heroic medical intervention.


The decision to begin "heroic" or other medical intervention is a personal choice and no one on this forum should attempt to suggest otherwise.


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## GoldieMad

Duke's Momma said:


> I was also going to say a petit-mal seizure. Especially with the slight bm. I'm glad he seems on the mend now, though. Grand fella that he is. Want pictures.


He is indeed a grand fellow. 

I'll see if I can extract some recent pics from the wife.


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## coppers-mom

My GR didn't froth. thrash or walk stiff legged when he had a seizure, but his jaws did lock. I know because the first time I thought he was choking. He would generally seek me out when he felt one coming on and preferred to be held through it. They only lasted 2 - 3 minutes and I would just hold him. My vet did say they seemed to be fairly mild, but he never had one while at the vet's.

I hope Ben stays well and this becomes a distant memory.

Pictures would be nice! Very nice.


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## coppers-mom

Oh yeah, My vet said dogs don't bite or swallow their tongues during seizures. I never questioned that statement so I don't know why they don't or even if he was right, but Chance never did and he had at least 5 seizures I was aware of over a 2 year period.


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## GoldieMad

Yes, I've read that they don't swallow their tongues. I've found no information on whether they might accidentally bite their tongues or not, although it seems to be possible if the dog has a seizure and is on its side with the tongue lolling to one side. Doesn't really bear thinking about to be honest. 

Anyone know on this one?

Also, one site I read advised not hugging a dog that's seizing and generally keeping clear of the head in case it accidentally bit the owner during the seizure.


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## GoldieMad

coppers-mom said:


> Pictures would be nice! Very nice.


Here's a three year old pic (there are far more recent pics on my wife's PC but she's working right now and I'm not sure how she has filed them all). On the left is Barney, our sadly deceased Goldie who died suddenly and unexpectedly a few weeks after the picture was taken (he was only 9). Barney always had a thick and very curly coat, hence the reason he looks large. Get him wet and you could see how slender he was. 

Ben is of course lying down on the right - these days he looks pretty much the same, although his face and coat is of course a bit paler.










Sorry if the pic is too large, but I wanted you to see them in all their glory. 

We also have two younger Goldies, Billy (3) and Charlie (nearly 2) but I don't have pics of them to hand.


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## Dallas Gold

Beautiful dogs. I'm sorry about Barney and I know about those curls masking a dog's inner skinny-ness. My Barkley looks like he's huge but when he's wet he barely hits 55. I love the curl action on goldens!


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## GoldieMad

Thanks. 

Billy, our 3 year old (who is related to Barney on one side of his family tree) looks very much like Barney and his coat is curling a bit as he gets a tad 'older'. Charlie (nearly 2) has a very, very straight coat.

Ben's coat has become a bit curlier during the past couple of years, more especially around the back of his neck and between the shoulder blades. I heard that this might indicate muscle stress in the area, is that right?


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## AmberSunrise

Oh, they are both beautiful - sorry you lost Barney so young


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## GoldieMad

It was devastating when we lost Barney - he was such an incredibly happy, loving and cuddlesome dog. No known ailments except a bit of arthritis in one of his rear legs. Then, one evening he keeled over (thankfully he was inside at the time) and with an hour he had died. Before that there were no signs whatsoever of any health problems. We called the vet out and he died soon after the vet arrived.

A truly terrible experience, compounded by the fact that I had to have one of my cats put down a few weeks earlier due to kidney failure.


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## Oaklys Dad

Thanks for the picture of Ben and Barney. Sorry for your loss of Barney. Love those golden oldies.


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## GoldieMad

Sorry to say that Ben just 'went' again - this time he didn't fall over but just lay down (when outside after walking to the end of the garden) and looked extremely tired. Didn't pass out, just seemed very tired. He got up after a couple of minutes, walked a little way then lay down again, looking very tired. Left him for a few more minutes and he came inside where he still looks very tired.

Gums are pink and healthy, no panting, no distress, no confusion - just extreme tiredness. Wants to close his eyes a lot yet the pink third lid isn't showing (which it usually does if he's really tired).

Very strange, it's almost as if he's worn out. Also, coincidence that it's happened at about the same time of night as last time? THEN he had keeled over, BUT he had been walking faster then. This time he was walking slowly and just lay down (on his front I should add, not on his side).

Blood sugar low perhaps?

Will take him to the vet tomorrow.


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## Karen519

*Ben*

will be praying hard for Ben and you.
God Bless You.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom

Prayers coming from our house too.


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## Duke's Momma

Dog-drops said:


> Yes, I've read that they don't swallow their tongues. I've found no information on whether they might accidentally bite their tongues or not, although it seems to be possible if the dog has a seizure and is on its side with the tongue lolling to one side. Doesn't really bear thinking about to be honest.
> 
> Anyone know on this one?
> 
> Also, one site I read advised not hugging a dog that's seizing and generally keeping clear of the head in case it accidentally bit the owner during the seizure.


Duke has bitten his tongue during a particularly violent gm seizure. And, he has also bitten me during a seizure. We have always stayed close and stroked and talked to him. When he bit me it was on the elbow and it was when I was trying to pull him out of danger from underneath my desk so he didn't hit his head on the sharp corner.

Our responsibility is to try to keep them safe and I believe that sometimes calling his name helps break through the fog. There's different schools of thought. It may make me feel better and does absolutely nothing for him. But, if it was a seizure that Ben had, it was surely a pm seizure.

I just saw the pictures - very handsome indeed. And, that he just had another "spell". Bless his heart - prayers coming your way from Colorado and paws crossed that it's just some sort of deficiency.


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## Dallas Gold

Prayers are coming your way for Ben.


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## Finn's Fan

Fingers crossed that this is something easily remedied, but certainly, a vet visit is in order. Meantime, give your boy a gentle pat from Colorado, please.


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## BeauShel

If you think the blood sugar is low, you can give him alittle bit of vanilla ice cream to help raise it back up. If it is a seizure, it will help him. Also you can put a wet washcloth on his head it helps with the activity in his brain.


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## Oaklys Dad

Just read the update on Ben. He will still be in our thoughts. Please update us with what the vet recommends.


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## Debles

Praying for sweet Ben. It is so hard to watch them age and have problems.
About seizures: our Max who had grand mal seizures did accidentally bite me the first time when I was hugging him thinking he was having a stroke. Our vet said (and I have read) that dogs rarely have strokes, like humans. 
My first golden died of what we thought was a stroke and it may have been or a very bad seizure.


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## IowaGold

Bloodwork is definitely in order when you get him into the vet. I doubt it would be low blood sugar-dogs usually don't show weakness as a sign of low blood sugar, they wait until it gets really low then they seize. This doesn't sound like a seizure either. My biggest worry would be hemangiosarcoma somewhere. I sure hope it's not, though, and that your vet gets it figured out for you!


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## GoldieMad

Thanks again everyone. I'm taking him into the vets in a couple of hours, will update here when I know more. 

BTW, he seems fine right now. Then again, he was fine all of yesterday too, until late evening.


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## Dallas Gold

Dog-drops said:


> Thanks again everyone. I'm taking him into the vets in a couple of hours, will update here when I know more.
> 
> BTW, he seems fine right now. Then again, he was fine all of yesterday too, until late evening.


Thinking of you both and praying it isn't hemangiosarcoma.


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## GoldieMad

Dallas Gold said:


> Thinking of you both and praying it isn't hemangiosarcoma.


Thanks, same here.

Although it doesn't really match all of the symptoms according to this page:

http://www.vetinfo.com/dencyclopedia/dehemsarcoma.html

So out of these common symptoms:

"Visible bleeding, usually in the form of nosebleeds, and signs associated with blood loss, such as tiring easily, episodes of unexplained weakness, pale color to the mucous membranes of the mouth and eyes, increased respiratory rates, abdominal swelling and depression are the most common presenting signs for patients with hemangiosarcoma."

Ben only gets the 'tiring easily' symptom, but none of the others, so I'm hoping it's something that's easier to 'fix'.


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## Dallas Gold

Dog-drops said:


> Thanks, same here.
> 
> Although it doesn't really match all of the symptoms according to this page:
> 
> http://www.vetinfo.com/dencyclopedia/dehemsarcoma.html
> 
> So out of these common symptoms:
> 
> "Visible bleeding, usually in the form of nosebleeds, and signs associated with blood loss, such as tiring easily, episodes of unexplained weakness, pale color to the mucous membranes of the mouth and eyes, increased respiratory rates, abdominal swelling and depression are the most common presenting signs for patients with hemangiosarcoma."
> 
> Ben only gets the 'tiring easily' symptom, but none of the others, so I'm hoping it's something that's easier to 'fix'.


I hope you are right. By the way, our Barkley didn't have the symptoms you mentioned until after his collapse and he never had the nosebleeds. The collapse was our first sign. In fact he was acting half his age in the days preceding it. Now that he is post-splenectomy he is back to acting younger, but we can tell he's having a little more difficulty walking uphill. 

Good thoughts coming your way.


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## GoldieMad

Thanks.

Well, Ben has had his blood tested and no problems found. This is of course great, but means that we still don't know the cause of the problem. The vet thinks it's the brain at fault (due to his age) and that's it's possibly a further development of the 'hyper episodes' that he used to suffer from a year or so ago and which have now largely abated. 

These 'hyper episodes' consisted of him unexpectedly becoming very hyper and animated for a few hours at a time, pawing at carpets, doors, panting a lot, wouldn't keep still, etc. He just would not settle. At its peak this happened about once every other day but we put him on Hills B/D and a supplement called Aktivait and the spells dimished. Now he only has one every 2 or 3 months, if that.

So, it MAY be related to that. He still goes into our lounge and barks at nothing at least once a day.

All most puzzling.

Is there any 'brain food'/supplements that are particularly good for brain function in elderly dogs?


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## goldensmum

You say that it happened to Holly about 5 times - was this spread over a few weeks or months, were the intervals between the collapses regular or variable? I only ask just to help understand Ben's condition a bit more.

Did the vet put Holly on any medication, change of diet, etc?

Thanks.[/QUOTE]

They were spread over 12months+ , there seemed to be no pattern to them, our vet never mentioned changing diet - but we would have been stuck if he had because Holly was already on a specific food because she suffered from very bad colitis, no meds because the episodes were so far apart. She had geriatric blood tests done and nothing shown on those apart from the week before we lost her at 14 years old. It scared us more than it ever bothered her.

Hope this helps, I will try and find my diary to see if I have forgotten anything else that may help.

Hugs to Ben


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## BeauShel

I know when Beau had his seizures he would be wide awake and pacing for hours after the seizure. And his seizures were always during the night so it meant for a long night. He would lay down and then 30 seconds later he would be back up walking around. 
We used to give him fish oil tablets. Just the regular kind in the people section. make sure you get the ones that dont have soy. Soy can make them itchy.


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## GoldieMad

goldensmum said:


> They were spread over 12months+ , there seemed to be no pattern to them, our vet never mentioned changing diet - but we would have been stuck if he had because Holly was already on a specific food because she suffered from very bad colitis, no meds because the episodes were so far apart. She had geriatric blood tests done and nothing shown on those apart from the week before we lost her at 14 years old. It scared us more than it ever bothered her.
> 
> Hope this helps, I will try and find my diary to see if I have forgotten anything else that may help.
> 
> Hugs to Ben


Thanks, that's very helpful.


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## GoldieMad

BeauShel said:


> I know when Beau had his seizures he would be wide awake and pacing for hours after the seizure. And his seizures were always during the night so it meant for a long night. He would lay down and then 30 seconds later he would be back up walking around.
> We used to give him fish oil tablets. Just the regular kind in the people section. make sure you get the ones that dont have soy. Soy can make them itchy.


That's very interesting - when Ben used to regularly have his 'hyper spells' there was never a sign of any kind of trigger or change in behaviour beforehand - one moment he was fine, then he would sit up and start panting and appear very animated. The pacing would commence and then once started he could go on (sometimes with a short break) for up to 6 hours or so. Must have been exhausting for him yet even when he slept afterwards he didn't sleep a lot.


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## AmberSunrise

Dog-drops said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Is there any 'brain food'/supplements that are particularly good for brain function in elderly dogs?


I am so glad the exam came back without finding anything  strange I know, but when you think of some of the things they can find, simply having an old brain is not so scary.

I had an elderly (17 yo) shepard who was on some brain food supplementation from my (then) vet; I don't recall the name of it, but in his case it really helped with his cognitive functioning - it might be worth asking your vet if he knows of anything that might help.


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## GoldieMad

Sunrise said:


> I am so glad the exam came back without finding anything  strange I know, but when you think of some of the things they can find, simply having an old brain is not so scary.
> 
> I had an elderly (17 yo) shepard who was on some brain food supplementation from my (then) vet; I don't recall the name of it, but in his case it really helped with his cognitive functioning - it might be worth asking your vet if he knows of anything that might help.


Ben is already on Hills B/D (Brain Diet) and Aktivair (for brain function) but I was hoping that there was something even better to get those synapses firing correctly.


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## coppers-mom

there have been threads about meds to improve brain function before. Maybe if you run a search you can find them?
If not, let me know and I'll try to find them for you.

I hope Ben continues to do well. He's such a sweetheart.


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## GoldieMad

coppers-mom said:


> there have been threads about meds to improve brain function before. Maybe if you run a search you can find them?
> If not, let me know and I'll try to find them for you.
> 
> I hope Ben continues to do well. He's such a sweetheart.


Thanks. I did have a hunt around this area but couldn't see anything specific to brain function, but if you know of anything here that would be most helpful.


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## AmbikaGR

Sam-e and milk thistle can be used to help improve cognitive function. But please discuss with your vet before administering to Ben to be sure they will not be an issue for him.


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## anniekc

Ben's symptoms sound a lot like what happened to my 10 year old Golden, Ruby last summer; She had pretty good health except for her hips which she was on Deramax for, and one afternoon I was standing at the stove and I looked over at her- she was laying in her usual place but she was kind of curved in a backwards "U" shape, and she looked like she was having a major muscle spasm, I immediately went to her and saw that she had lost her bladder and was in the process of a BM- It took about 30 seconds for her to come back around and look at me, and she seemed very disoriented for the longest time- very scary. She had never had anything like this happen before!

Took her to the vet the next day, told him I was suspicious that it was a grand mal seizure, and we were both thinking maybe epilepsy, or thyroid. So we did the blood panel- (not sure if that's what you had done- usually around 100.00 and it usually takes a day to come back) well, it came back with her liver enzymes off the chart, indicating that there was probably some type of liver cancer, or actually it could have been any type of cancer or tumor that was being filtered through her liver and causing it to fail- the vet said that without an ultrasound and x-rays they couldn't be sure where the problem originated. Unfortunately, as we were pondering our next move, Ruby had another seizure- at home, no notice, same pattern, and again, came back around for another day, and then had such a bad series of seizures that we determined all the additional procedures were not warranted. We said good- by to her that morning. It was awful. From her first seizure to the end was about 48 hours. I still can't believe it all happened so fast.

I'm sorry I should have warned you this wasn't a happy story, but my point in telling it is that Ruby's seizures were caused by something internal that we had NO way of knowing about until it was far too late to do anything about it- Now I'm a big believer in having the senior blood panels done after age five.

I hope your Ben is fine, and you don't experience anymore of the seizures. Keep a close eye on him; Sometimes I wonder if Ruby had had some quiet, little ones that I maybe missed along the way.


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## Dallas Gold

I know you are relieved about this not being something extremely major. 

As far as supplements helping cognitive abilities, I think you and I have had this discussion before in another thread; however, since then I attended a seminar with a veterinarian who gave me some additional information. I don't know if these things will help Ben or not, but it's worth discussing with your vet:

1. Cholene supports improved mental clarity and cognition. Several of us on this forum use this supplement for it (and they have a good description on their webpage): http://www.entirelypets.com/chca5tach.html

2. Denestra is a new Sam-E formulation for dogs that is supposed to improve mental cognition. Hotel4Dogs here alerted me to a clinical study being performed now about this and hopefully the trial shows it does help. Here is a link to the entirelypets website that describes it: http://www.entirelypets.com/denestra3pk200mg60.html

Aren't you in GB? I'm not sure about shipping policies overseas but maybe there is a source where you are. 

I've heard the brain foods sometimes don't work so well on some dogs. 

I too think fish oils are great for cognitive function--human and canine. I swear by them. Like Beau Shel said, make sure they don't have soy (allergies increase) and also make sure they don't have Vitamin A in them as it can be toxic in larger doses. A sports veterinarian I consulted for Barkley suggested the formulation is 300 mgs per 10 pounds of weight. for a 60 pound dog it would be 1800 to 2000 mgs per day. Take the DHA and EPA figures and add them up for the omega 3 numbers. Some capsules are in such small doses you have to feed them 10 to meet the 1800 dose! I found a formulation at Costco that is at a much higher dosage that we use--3 per day for Barkley. It also needs to be certified to be free of mercury too (neurotoxin). We were advised to increase the dosage slowly to prevent soft poop and GI distress. 

I hope this helps! I'm thrilled Ben doesn't have a cancer.


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## Dallas Gold

How is Ben doing today?


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## Elisabeth Kazup

Sending good thoughts and healing wishes to Ben!


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## babbs

This just happened to my 13 yr. old Starr yesterday, but for a full 24 hrs. she would not get up or stand if we lifted her. This morning after I called the vet with tears in my eyes to say we were carrying her in. I called my neighbor with her "best friend" chihuahua to come visit, and as soon as Starr saw her she got up (very slow and wobbly) and followed her outside to pee. Vet thinks possibly a mini stroke, or over did it playing with the new puppy on Sat. Happily Starr is back home sleeping, and praying she stays comfortably with us a while longer.


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## BeauShel

We will say a prayer for Starr. Hopefully she just overdid it. Sometimes the old pups forget their age and can overdo it.


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## Claire's Friend

How is Ben doing now ?


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## Dallas Gold

Claire's Friend said:


> How is Ben doing now ?


I sent Dog Drops a P.M. and hope he will let us know how Ben is doing.


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## GoldieMad

Claire's Friend said:


> How is Ben doing now ?


So sorry for the lack of updates, for some reason this forum wasn't notifying me of additions to this thread and, most thankfully, Ben has been okay after his initial two incidents.

He's definitely slowing down as he gets older yet has the odd moment of exuberance - he still loves his (slow!) walks and loves his surroundings. He still eats just fine and seems happy, so fingers crossed he continues to be okay.

Many thanks for all your well wishes. 

Babbs - sorry to hear about Starr, hope he's okay now.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom

This is such good news. Keep us posted about him.... he has a whole fan base now.


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## Dallas Gold

Thank you for the wonderful update!


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## GoldieMad

No problem, he's sleeping right now.


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## BeauShel

I am glad that he is better now.


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## GoldieMad

So am I.


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## Claire's Friend

Me too !!!


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## Karen519

*Ben*

So very glad that Ben is doing better now-how amazing-15 years old!!

As far as you not getting msgs. when people comment, go to your User CP here and make sure that you have checked the box to get updates.


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## GoldieMad

Thanks.

I usually do get updates to the thread, but they stopped (erroneously) for some reason. Working now though.


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## Tailer'sFolks

Just read the entire thread. I'm so glad Ben is doing fine...it's so scary when our furkids have problems! Wish they could tell us what's wrong...I can kinda read body language, but seizures are just so alien...

Good Luck with Ben, we'll be praying for all of you. --Gay & Tailer


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## GoldieMad

Thank you.

I like the name Furkids - never heard that one before.


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## Hudson

Have been catching up on the forum news, wow how blessed you are to have a 15 year old golden boy, glad he is doing well now and no more collapses.Give Ben a big hug from us in aussie land.


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## GoldieMad

Thanks. Not QUITE 15 yet, end of March for that day.


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## GoldenOwner12

so sorry to hear Ben collapsed, But glad to hear Ben is doing better. Einstein my 11 year old male sometimes collapses in the back end mainly if his over exercised.


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## rc03bps

*senior slips*

I am not sure I am doing this correctly as I am new to posting on a board. 

I have a (just turned 14 yr old) golden who is experiencing similar issues. He is fine outside but sometimes, despite our best efforts, at area rugs, slips and cannot get the back end under him. Rimadyl has helped for the past year. His blood work came back clean by an excellent golden vet. I count my blessings that he is mobile each day. Albeit rather difficult to wake most mornings. All I keep hearing from my geriatric dog owners, is area rugs, area rugs, area rugs. He sleeps most of the day but still hops for dinner and his rawhide chip.


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## coppers-mom

Hi and welcome!
My senior fellow had arthritis, spondylosis and other problems that affected his mobility.

There are a few additional things you can try. If the rugs are causing him to slip, you can add the no slip pads under the rugs. You can find them at Wal-mart and such, or use the material you cut and put in cabinets to keep glasses from slipping.

Also, althought I thought it was a bit of voodoo I tried a holistic vet in desperation once rimadyl wasn't enough for Copper. Acupuncture and laser light therapy made an immediate (as in on the way out on the first visit) improvement in Copper's gait.

There are also supplements that may help, but I'll let others who are more knowledgable post on those.

Good luck with your old gold. They are the best gold of all.


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## maggsd

I know what you mean when I started posting on the forum I got it a bit wrong, but it doesn't really matter. sorry you're having a little trouble with your golden oldie. I know from looking on internet that you can get them little socks that have tread -type stuff on the bottom so stop your dog slipping and give them some grip.
There's nothing like 'old gold', I wish you many more happy days with your beauty.


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## rc03bps

Thanks to all who replied. We do have vet in the area who does holistic care. Great suggestion on the acupuncture. I will check it out.


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## rc03bps

Thanks so much for your reply. I looked into those sock things a while ago. I don't know if he would go for them and at this point he he gets what I call "alligatored" out on the kitchen floor. I think may check out the holisitc vet in the area and throw down more rubber backed kitchen rugs. I don't see Better Homes and Gardens coming to do a photo shoot anytime in the near future. I am shocked he made it to 14 and have been trying to prepare myself for letting him go. But how can one do that. 
Thank you for your kind words and support in loving a geriatric soul.


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