# Would you..



## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Why would you have to give up fostering?

I am a foster failure myself and I can still foster (cats).


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I have a max # of dogs I can have at my house, I can't imagine not fostering anymore, so no I would not adopt a foster if it meant I could not foster any longer.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I can honestly say that I have had some fosters recently that I absolutely adored and would have adopted in a heartbeat because they fit in so well in my home and with my pack. But I didn't because I can only (personally) do 4 dogs and my three are permanent and the 4th slot is for fosters (or trainees). I can't give any more than that emotionally, physically or financially. 

It broke my heart to have them leave my home, but I have to be able to keep fostering. The last one that stole my heart completely was Virgo:


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## Sterling Archer (Feb 8, 2011)

Yes. I would be a foster failure if I ever gave it a try. I get attached to animals pretty quickly. I'd like the cat or dog and want to keep it around permanently.

That's not an option at this point anyways. We have two cats and two dogs now. The addition of the last kitten seemed to make the house shrink, lol. No more animals until we get some land.


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## booklady (Mar 3, 2009)

Due to a severe case of foster failure, I'm on hiatus....I can't say that I've given it up, just that there's no room in the inn for the time being.

I'm at three dogs right now and that is my personal limit, however they are all seniors (my weakness) and I know that our time together will be shorter rather than longer. When that sad day arrives for one of them I'll be back at it and welcome in a new oldie.


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## jealous1 (Dec 7, 2007)

I don't do well fostering goldens as I fall too hard for them. That said, I have failed more than once and have never regretted adopting any of them. There are lots of other ways to help with rescue--we do a lot of volunteer transports (goldens as well as all breed) and so far (knock wood) I haven't failed one of them although sorely tempted


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

A little background: Joseph was rescued 8 months ago from a kill shelter, he had been picked up after being dumped and he was reported to be terrified of people. Through an assessment with a certified behaviorist we found that Joseph had way more problems than just people (shows signs of being abused- flinching, or ducking at certain hand movement or approaches, running and hiding if you raised your voice, or he 'thinks' he is in trouble) - he was/and is terrified of and highly reactive to new dogs and the world in general scares him. We have worked long and hard with him, building his confidence, expanding his comfort zone, and helping him learn that the world is not so scary. There is no 'cure' for Joseph issues - just lifelong management and reinforcement of the skills he has learned and will learn - it is a process.

On the upside, once Joseph learns to trust you, he is an amazing dog, loving, loyal, devoted,obedient, and happy beyond measure in an environment he feels safe in. We love him, and truly only want what is best for him, there could be a perfect adoptive family for him, but in six months that he has been available for adoption - that family has not come forward. Joseph does deserve a second chance and a forever family that will love him for who he is and give him the life he deserves.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

He is beautiful and is lucky to have you as his foster family! 

The deciding factor for my adopting both Jasper and Daniel was that the adoptive home would have to be a better home for them than my home. With both of them, I had absolutely no doubt that I was the best home for them. Jasper because of his very sensitive nature and his bond with me and Danny because he needed the kind of exercise and training that I was willing to commit to.

Good luck with Joseph and your very difficult decision.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

fostermom said:


> He is beautiful and is lucky to have you as his foster family!
> 
> The deciding factor for my adopting both Jasper and Daniel was that the adoptive home would have to be a better home for them than my home. With both of them, I had absolutely no doubt that I was the best home for them. Jasper because of his very sensitive nature and his bond with me and Danny because he needed the kind of exercise and training that I was willing to commit to.
> 
> Good luck with Joseph and your very difficult decision.


This is my measuring stick too. Bless you for taking in a hard case and working with him, his life is better because of you, it's all too possible he would not be here without you. 

I am acquainted with fosters who feel pressured to adopt a foster dog because it will be hard to find a new home because the dog has special needs in one form or another. I always feel bad for those fosters because they put in so much effort and work with the "broken" babies, I feel like they should be able to choose to a dog they want who has all the characteristics they prefer, not feel forced to keep a dog who has issues that may not be their ideal dog. 

I hope that makes sense. I'm not saying that's where you are in this situation, I know you love Joseph and want the best for him. As you said, there is the right home for him out there and if it is yours, you both win.


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## Shutterwolf (Jan 30, 2012)

I hope to try my paw at fostering a golden some day, and unless i have a golden puppy of my own, i may end up adopting. I got my current dog right now when a friend was fostering her, and i visited often and fell in love with her and had to take her home with me  Thats how i ended up with a pit mix instead of the lab or golden i had wanted as a first breed haha


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

mylissyk said:


> This is my measuring stick too. Bless you for taking in a hard case and working with him, his life is better because of you, it's all too possible he would not be here without you.
> 
> I am acquainted with fosters who feel pressured to adopt a foster dog because it will be hard to find a new home because the dog has special needs in one form or another. I always feel bad for those fosters because they put in so much effort and work with the "broken" babies, I feel like they should be able to choose to a dog they want who has all the characteristics they prefer, not feel forced to keep a dog who has issues that may not be their ideal dog.
> 
> I hope that makes sense. I'm not saying that's where you are in this situation, I know you love Joseph and want the best for him. As you said, there is the right home for him out there and if it is yours, you both win.


Thank you! It makes perfect sense and that is where we are right now. We MAY be Joseph's ONLY hope at the life he deserves. We may be 'forced' by circumstance - to give him a home for life - whether we adopt or keep him as a 'permanent foster', and I suppose we can only hope to get him to the point where we will be able to foster again. 
So begs the question: what do foster homes do with the 'unadoptable' broken dogs? We take them in with the hope and promise of a better life for them, we owe it to them to keep that promise, and it is not an option to say - 'you are not good enough, you are not the dog I would choose, you are too much trouble - you have to go' and 'going' means 'dying' because I don't want you and no one else does either. It is just not a choice I could make.

I am a 'foster failure'- adopted my boy Charlie, a rescue with problems who had been abused and rehomed too many times, and had all but given up on the human race.Without a doubt - this adoption was 'meant to be' -it has been a fantastic journey with no regrets. So I do know that these 'broken dogs' can and do become fantastic friends and family members, and sometimes we don't get to choose 'who is family'.


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## jealous1 (Dec 7, 2007)

You could have been writing about our first "failure", Buddy. We ended up adopting him because his chances of adoption were 0. Our hope was that one day he would learn to enjoy life and just come to accept us and others. It took a LONG time, but we now ask, "where's our old Buddy?" He has totally turned around and is an amazing dog. Yes, he still has his quirks, but they are part of what makes him so special. He will still bark at some folks when they first come up, but usually accepts them and goes about his merry way. Some folks, like his Aunt Ava who has seen and helped him through this process, he adores and will go to them for attention. He pouts for about a week when someone new comes in, but then seems to realize that he is still going to get his share of loving and food/treats/toys and goes back to being "Buddy".

It sounds like you have been on this journey before with Charlie and that YOU are Joseph's right family, even it means you are at your max. You obviously have the right "touch" and patience. And you're absolutely right, _sometimes we don't get to choose 'who is family'_, but I believe God has a hand in leading someone to you and there was a reason behind Joseph being placed with you.

Good luck with your decision and I hope to be reading soon that Joseph has found his forever home; if it is with you, I think he will be very happy and will reward you over and over with his undying love.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Charliethree said:


> Thank you! It makes perfect sense and that is where we are right now. We MAY be Joseph's ONLY hope at the life he deserves. We may be 'forced' by circumstance - to give him a home for life - whether we adopt or keep him as a 'permanent foster', and I suppose we can only hope to get him to the point where we will be able to foster again.
> So begs the question: what do foster homes do with the 'unadoptable' broken dogs? We take them in with the hope and promise of a better life for them, we owe it to them to keep that promise, and it is not an option to say - 'you are not good enough, you are not the dog I would choose, you are too much trouble - you have to go' and 'going' means 'dying' because I don't want you and no one else does either. It is just not a choice I could make.
> 
> I am a 'foster failure'- adopted my boy Charlie, a rescue with problems who had been abused and rehomed too many times, and had all but given up on the human race. Without a doubt - this adoption was 'meant to be' -it has been a fantastic journey with no regrets. So I do know that these 'broken dogs' can and do become fantastic friends and family members, and sometimes we don't get to choose 'who is family'.


It's not a choice I could make either. Like you have experienced with Charlie, sometimes the perfect home is the foster home and they do become wonderful family members. I don't think that's bad! I just want the dog and the people to be happy!


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

I was recently in this position. I had been fostering a very shut down puppy mill breeder mama (Izzie) who aside from going to the bathroom and eating, lived a life as a statue--no spark in the eyes. I'm set to transfer to Alabama for another assignment this Summer and I was beginning to get worried that the "perfect" home for her did not exist. She had been with the rescue for over a year and I was her 2nd foster of nearly 8 mos. While the rescue was set to provide her another foster home upon my departure, I wanted to ensure she wasn't going to a home to be "managed"...I wanted her to continue to blossom. In the meantime, I picked up a temp foster over the holidays, who was set to become golden #2 (Sam) in the family. My own golden is also out of a puppy mill and while she's come a long way, she's not without her own baggage which is why I wasn't looking to add another mill girl permanently. Sam on the other hand aside from some minor issues is "normal". Although it was a tough & emotional decision, I was prepared to let Sam go in order to provide a furever home for Izzie and then as fate would have it, a retired couple came along who already have their "normal" pups and were head over heels in love with Izzie, didn't see her as "damaged goodgs" and were prepared to continue the journey. Izzie's mom contacted DVGRR who has provided a wealth of resources with the rehabilitation process. I couldn't have created a more perfect family. I don't envy your position.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

*Adopted!!*

We have decided to give Joseph his forever home. I think he 'knew' it all along, from the moment he stepped from his transport crate, he put his life in our hands, he did not react to us, he did not bark or run away - he came to us for the love he so desperately needed. He put his trust in us, and bonded with his foster dad, and has made some huge strides in coping with the 'real world'.
It is these 'special needs' dogs that rip your heart out, that take every bit of patience, understanding and love that you can give them, and return it a thousand fold. Having been through this process with my boy Charlie, I absolutely know the 'honor' of being 'chosen', trusted, by a fearful dog - a 'gift' beyond measure and betraying that trust is not an option.
I am grateful for the opportunity to have fostered,(and will do it again, when the time is right) and have a hand at saving lives, but the time has come to do the right thing for THIS dog, this rescue whose life was in limbo, and who has come to mean so much to us. 

*'Until there are none, rescue one.'*


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## Goldens R Great (Aug 19, 2010)

That's wonderful news you adopted Joseph! Congratulations on being a "foster failure" again!


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## ELI&BAILEY'S MOM (Dec 18, 2008)

Your post brought tears to my eyes! Thank you for adopting him.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Congratulations to you and huge congratulations to Joseph.

You're right - we don't always get to decide who is "family" and I think those guys come into our lives for a reason. We learn from them too.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Congratulations Joseph, what a fantastic home you chose for yourself. 

Charliethree, thank you for caring so much and giving him a wonderful future.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Charliethree*

CHARLIETHREE

I am ECSTATIC for Joseph and you that you have decided to 'ADOPT,' him, because I was going to say that you are his perfect home. It's horrible to say but I don't think there are many people in the world that are willing to do whatever it takes to love and care for a dog, especially one with special needs.

If your town has a law as to how many dogs you can have, would they not make an exception if one of the dogs in your home was a FOSTER dog, and not a permanent resident? If they won't, as someone else said there are so many more things to do for rescue: driving in transports, having an overnight (dog stay at your house from a transport), answering phones, going over adoption applications, etc.

Joseph sure knows how to pick the right home!! Doing the Happy Dance!!


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## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

Charliethree said:


> We have decided to give Joseph his forever home. I think he 'knew' it all along, from the moment he stepped from his transport crate, he put his life in our hands, he did not react to us, he did not bark or run away - he came to us for the love he so desperately needed. He put his trust in us, and bonded with his foster dad, and has made some huge strides in coping with the 'real world'.
> It is these 'special needs' dogs that rip your heart out, that take every bit of patience, understanding and love that you can give them, and return it a thousand fold. Having been through this process with my boy Charlie, I absolutely know the 'honor' of being 'chosen', trusted, by a fearful dog - a 'gift' beyond measure and betraying that trust is not an option.
> I am grateful for the opportunity to have fostered,(and will do it again, when the time is right) and have a hand at saving lives, but the time has come to do the right thing for THIS dog, this rescue whose life was in limbo, and who has come to mean so much to us.
> 
> *'Until there are none, rescue one.'*


That brought tears to my eyes. Joseph is so very blessed to have you all and I'm so glad you are able to open your hearts and homes to him, forever.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Charliethree said:


> We have decided to give Joseph his forever home. I think he 'knew' it all along, from the moment he stepped from his transport crate, he put his life in our hands, he did not react to us, he did not bark or run away - he came to us for the love he so desperately needed. He put his trust in us, and bonded with his foster dad, and has made some huge strides in coping with the 'real world'.
> It is these 'special needs' dogs that rip your heart out, that take every bit of patience, understanding and love that you can give them, and return it a thousand fold. Having been through this process with my boy Charlie, I absolutely know the 'honor' of being 'chosen', trusted, by a fearful dog - a 'gift' beyond measure and betraying that trust is not an option.
> I am grateful for the opportunity to have fostered,(and will do it again, when the time is right) and have a hand at saving lives, but the time has come to do the right thing for THIS dog, this rescue whose life was in limbo, and who has come to mean so much to us.
> 
> *'Until there are none, rescue one.'*


God bless you, I think sometimes you just know in your heart what the best decision is that has to be made. 

I can so relate to what you have said as I have a special needs girl who was fearful and so untrusting of people due to being abused. I can't imagine life without her or what her life might have been if she hadn't chosen us.


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## GoldenMum (Mar 15, 2010)

You are truly an angel, I am sure that Joseph has come into you life for a reason......may you have tons of memory making moments!


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

So happy to hear this! Lucky Joseph!!


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Congratulations on your failed foster. I have two of my own. I was going to say if you were still on the fence. Awhile back one of my fosters was with me for about a year. Nobody wanted him because he had seizures. CoCo was so handsome and sweet. Had only had a couple of seizures since he was with me but the only people interested had never dealt with seizures and thought meds would take care of them to keep them from happening. I thought he would be with me forever until a family came along that said the seizures didnt matter. They adopted a child that needed surgeries and was now all well and didnt mind the seizures. It was love at first sight for the whole family and with CoCo. I cried my eyes out when I left them together, partly because I loved that dog so much and because I would miss him. And the other part because his furever family had finally come for him. It took a long time but it did happen.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Thank you. We are thrilled to have been able to put a smile on his face, and rekindle the light in his eyes, and the joy in his heart,







10 months ago
and give him a second chance and his furever home - he deserves that much!

Until there are none, rescue one.


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## jealous1 (Dec 7, 2007)

Just now seeing--Congratulations and wecome home Joseph!!!!!

Now we just need more pics of that beautiful boy!


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Joseph*

I love that picture of Joseph, but agree with Jealous1 that we NEED MORE!


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Handsome boy!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

*Update*

Thought you might like to hear from Joseph. It has been a fantastic summer, he has worked hard at changing his ways. His 'safe zone' has diminished in size, he can now allow a dog to go by across the street without too much concern (most of the time)- HUGE for him. He and his dad, a 'meant to be' pair for sure, spent many days this summer in the front yard watching people and dogs go by without a bark or a rush at the fence, trying to chase them away, he would sit beside his dad and just watch, then look to his dad for his reward! I watched in amazement one day, as he lay by his dad's feet calm, cool and collected, watching the neighbour's terriers bark at him through a chain link face from across the alley. Their days 'off' were spent running free in the country and camping, which is totally Joseph's favorite thing to do, chasing squirrels and swimming in the river, what more could a dog want?
Strangers are still very much a concern for him, though he can now cope well with someone passing by (fairly close) as long as they don't pay him any attention. This is one issue that is so very hard to work on, as it is near impossible to find people that are 'brave' enough or have the 'dog sense' to help work with a barking, big black scared dog. Not that I blame them.
Truth be told, he can be a handful, some days, but he is one amazing, fun loving, gotta love him, dog. He has an addiction to T-tissue, steals the roll from the bathroom every chance he gets and of course, shreds it, counter surfs like crazy and is rewarded for it occassionally (we are slow learners), runs off to his crate with his stolen 'treasures', but will gladly give them up for a piece of food. He tries so hard to be a 'good' dog, though his lab energy and drive to have fun,(a good thing) and non-stop 'play with me' pestering of the other dogs can be a little annoying, he is truly a GREAT dog!


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

Thanks for the update. Joseph is beautiful, I am glad you gave him forever home.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Joseph is gorgeous and I'm sure he will continue to blossom at his new home.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

Charliethree said:


> A little background: Joseph was rescued 8 months ago from a kill shelter, he had been picked up after being dumped and he was reported to be terrified of people. Through an assessment with a certified behaviorist we found that Joseph had way more problems than just people (shows signs of being abused- flinching, or ducking at certain hand movement or approaches, running and hiding if you raised your voice, or he 'thinks' he is in trouble) - he was/and is terrified of and highly reactive to new dogs and the world in general scares him. We have worked long and hard with him, building his confidence, expanding his comfort zone, and helping him learn that the world is not so scary. There is no 'cure' for Joseph issues - just lifelong management and reinforcement of the skills he has learned and will learn - it is a process.
> 
> On the upside, once Joseph learns to trust you, he is an amazing dog, loving, loyal, devoted,obedient, and happy beyond measure in an environment he feels safe in. We love him, and truly only want what is best for him, there could be a perfect adoptive family for him, but in six months that he has been available for adoption - that family has not come forward. Joseph does deserve a second chance and a forever family that will love him for who he is and give him the life he deserves.
> 
> ...


We were a foster failure over 12 years ago with a dog very similar to Joseph. Cheyenne was our first foster dog and I spent months working with her to get her over so many fears that I can't even list them all. I took two weeks off work just to lay under the kitchen table with her for about a week, not looking at her, but just letting her get used to me slowly. After 3 months I decided no one would spent this much time working with her and I didn't want her going to a home where she would have set backs so we adopted her. She passed in February at 15 years old of a brain tumor. I cry every day for her. She was an incredible dog. She had issues to the end, but traveled with us and enjoyed a wonderful life. If it meant having that opportunity all over again and not being able to foster because I adopted her I would do it in a heartbeat.


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

Tayla's Mom said:


> We were a foster failure over 12 years ago with a dog very similar to Joseph. Cheyenne was our first foster dog and I spent months working with her to get her over so many fears that I can't even list them all. I took two weeks off work just to lay under the kitchen table with her for about a week, not looking at her, but just letting her get used to me slowly. After 3 months I decided no one would spent this much time working with her and I didn't want her going to a home where she would have set backs so we adopted her. She passed in February at 15 years old of a brain tumor. I cry every day for her. She was an incredible dog. She had issues to the end, but traveled with us and enjoyed a wonderful life. If it meant having that opportunity all over again and not being able to foster because I adopted her I would do it in a heartbeat.


Thanks Tayla's Mom for giving so much love and care to sweet Cheyenne, I know you received it back doubled. I've read early about your loss of her, I am very sorry. I know how much you miss her, who wouldn't such a special girl. Do you have any pictures of Cheyenne posted somewhere, would love to see her?


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

Buddy's mom forever said:


> Thanks Tayla's Mom for giving so much love and care to sweet Cheyenne, I know you received it back doubled. I've read early about your loss of her, I am very sorry. I know how much you miss her, who wouldn't such a special girl. Do you have any pictures of Cheyenne posted somewhere, would love to see her?


Thanks. Here is a picture of my dynamic duo. Cheyenne was our Aussie/BC mix and Jesse is our Golden mix. Jesse is going to be 15 years old in January.










They were together for 12 years.


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

Thanks Barb for posting the picture of your girls. Cheyenne was beautiful so is Jesse. Even in the picture I can see how special those two are.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Joseph*

What beautiful pics of Joseph-you have made his life a DREAM by adopting him!
I can see why you adopted Joseph-even if he does steal the Toilet Paper!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

He is an absolute treasure! Despite providing us with a few of those 'Boy, I sure hope this gets better!??' and moments, it has been truly amazing and thrilling to see the change in him. It has been a real 'education' for all of us, there is a lot more to 'dog' than meets the eye, and what we have discovered is truly mind boggling! Couldn't have done it without the help and support of our behaviorist and her staff - they have been amazing!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

'He's not the same dog' our trainer said months ago. Joseph had completed a reactive dog agility session, enjoyed himself immensely and loved working with the equipment, seeming to forget his troubles, and just focus on having fun. He was truly 'not the same dog' but had a ways to go yet. 
Even at home it was hard to get Joseph to settle and truly relax, he just never seemed to stop living life at 'high speed'. His anxiety and a combination of events resulted in an unprovoked attack on one of the others, and he began to 'bully' the most submissive one of the group. Concerned about his behavior escalating and the effect it was having on his 'target' dog, our trainer suggested calming medication for him. Admittedly it was a bit of a shock, and hard to accept that we may need to go that route, but it was perhaps time to consider it. During my search for 'answers' and options or alternatives to medication, I wondered about whether a change of diet might be of help. The research I found was not overwhelmingly promising but it did show that in some dogs a lower protein diet did help in some cases. We opted to give it a try, couldn't hurt, we had nothing to lose and a whole lot to gain, if it did work for him. The change in Joseph has been nothing short of 'magical', in less than a week of fully changing his diet, almost a month ago, now, he was truly 'not the same dog!' He has become a calm, thinking, settled, softer, gentler and more contented dog. He is still 'reactive' but at the same time, he is much easier to manage, to redirect and prevent a 'reaction' when needed, is able to calm himself and quickly regain his 'self control' and focus. 
When Joseph first came into our lives our trainer commented 'He is lucky to have you'. 'Lucky' I suppose he was, we had made the promise to give him a chance. He has tested our courage, challenged our dreams, changed our lives, taught us more than we could ever teach him. We are indeed 'Lucky to have him!' he is one amazing dog!


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## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

That's so incredible!! If anyone can give Joseph a full, fun life it is you! ♥


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## GoldenMum (Mar 15, 2010)

Wonderful update, sounds like Joseph did a great job picking his mom, and dad.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Thank you.

This is the photo that started it all, taken at the pound. 
One look is all it took to kick off the adventure of a lifetime!


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Way to go  Lucky Joseph, and lucky you!


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Glad the food is helping him out. I'm thinking about doing something similar for Bella. He's such a beautiful boy--I've just finished reading this thread for the first time.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Joseph is so beautiful, he's got a wonderful soul and spirit. 

I've enjoyed following his journey, he's one very lucky boy.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Joseph*

I am so glad you opened your heart to Joseph!
He is such a beauty with such soulful eyes.
Thank God you weren't like all of the people that totally dismiss the idea adopting a black dog-that is why so many of them in shelters never have a chance!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

It is a reality that 'black dog syndrome' results in the loss of life for so many black dogs in shelters. I didn't really see a 'black dog' when I saw his photo, I saw only those eyes, nothing else mattered.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Joseph*

Joseph and you are both very lucky!
Please give him some big kisses and hugs from me!


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Charliethree said:


> It is a reality that 'black dog syndrome' results in the loss of life for so many black dogs in shelters. I didn't really see a 'black dog' when I saw his photo, I saw only those eyes, nothing else mattered.


IDK... rescues and shelters make a big deal about it, but i wonder if they just get MORE black animals, so it SEEMS they get passed over. 

I can relate to seeing the eyes and BAM it's over. That's the way I was with Bear.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Thank you Karen519 - will do!

Brave: I think any shelter worker or rescue can verify that it takes much longer on average for black dogs and cats to get adopted than the ones of other colors.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Thought I would update this thread, it has been a 'while' and perhaps provide a little encouragement to those living with a reactive dog. No, it hasn't always been 'easy', but it has been a journey that has been so amazing and rewarding, so 'worthwhile'. 
Joseph has come such a long, long ways from the 'early days' four years ago, when we weren't even sure we were going to make it this far. We set aside our 'expectations' or preconceived notions of what 'should be' and dealt one day at a time with the reality of 'what is'. 'What is' is the reality that Joseph may never feel safe enough, comfortable enough to be able to remain in a room full of strangers, and that is okay, but he can and does feel safe in the presence of a stranger when there is only one. Huge for him! 'What is' is the reality that he may never be able to feel safe interacting with strange dogs, and that is okay, but he can see them from a safe distance without 'exploding' into a tirade of lunging and yelling 'Get out of my space!'. We are so proud of him. 'What is' is that he is a loving, loyal, sweet, happy, funny boy who charms us with his 'sense of humor', his thieving ways and silly antics, getting tangled up in a tunnel chute and once freed from it, wants to do it again, comes to mind, and cuddles on the bed at night. 'What is' is a sweet and innocent soul who deserved a chance, was given a chance and has rewarded us in so many ways for opening our hearts to him.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

I think the dog you're suppose to have finds you. 
I'm sure you've asked yourself where Joseph would be if you hadn't decided to keep him. 

Being able to accept a dog for "what he/she is" is huge. Like you said, you take it one day at a time, accept what their challenges are and take it from there. 

I can relate, because my girl is a lot like Joseph in many ways and she too is the sweetest, loving and gentlest of souls that deserved a chance.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

What a great update! He was and still is lucky to have found you.

Now, just an observation. Have you ever noticed, when you go back and read your responses and realize how much your life has changed in that period of time. When I originally answered, I said 3 full time dogs + a foster or a trainee is what I felt was what I could personally handle. A year and a half later we added full time dog #4 and 3+ years later we will sometimes have up to 10 visiting dogs (trainees and fosters). It's all par for the course now. We're back down to 3 full time dogs since we lost our old girl on Sunday and I think I'd like to keep it at 3 for now, though I am sure I will have to battle my husband on that one. He's going to want another black lab (mix) in the future. Besides, our boys need a girl to tell them what to do. LOL


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Whether a 'gift, God sent, or simply 'meant to be', there is no doubt Joseph belonged and belongs with us. Where he would be, had we decided we could not to keep him is difficult to even consider. It was hard to see past his 'problems' and the long road that lay ahead, hard to see the beautiful soul that lay hidden within, hard to fathom that he would even have a chance, if we did not take a chance on him.

Looking back, I would never have dreamed how much our lives have changed. We have given up a few things that were important at the time, gained a whole lot more. We have made a few 'sacrifices', given up a bit of our freedom, some might say we have given up a lot, we certainly don't see it that way. We are limited in the places we can go and the things we can do with Joseph, and that is Okay! I do still miss fostering, and hope that one day I will be able to foster again, but for now, we focus on 'what is' and that is okay.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

fostermom said:


> Besides, our boys need a girl to tell them what to do. LOL


This is great, love it! I've had some feisty girls in the past, although they have been a challenge at times, I adore them for whatever reason. My Roxy is not the typical girl I've had in the past, but she's a very special gift. 



Charliethree said:


> Whether a 'gift, God sent, or simply 'meant to be', there is no doubt Joseph belonged and belongs with us. Where he would be, had we decided we could not to keep him is difficult to even consider. It was hard to see past his 'problems' and the long road that lay ahead, hard to see the beautiful soul that lay hidden within, hard to fathom that he would even have a chance, if we did not take a chance on him.
> 
> Looking back, I would never have dreamed how much our lives have changed. We have given up a few things that were important at the time, gained a whole lot more. We have made a few 'sacrifices', given up a bit of our freedom, some might say we have given up a lot, we certainly don't see it that way. We are limited in the places we can go and the things we can do with Joseph, and that is Okay! I do still miss fostering, and hope that one day I will be able to foster again, but for now, we focus on 'what is' and that is okay.



What you said above is what I've said and we've gone through with my Roxy. They have such a profound effect on our lives and the time and sacrifices you make for them is so very worth it. It changes you in so many ways.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Joseph*



Charliethree said:


> Thought I would update this thread, it has been a 'while' and perhaps provide a little encouragement to those living with a reactive dog. No, it hasn't always been 'easy', but it has been a journey that has been so amazing and rewarding, so 'worthwhile'.
> Joseph has come such a long, long ways from the 'early days' four years ago, when we weren't even sure we were going to make it this far. We set aside our 'expectations' or preconceived notions of what 'should be' and dealt one day at a time with the reality of 'what is'. 'What is' is the reality that Joseph may never feel safe enough, comfortable enough to be able to remain in a room full of strangers, and that is okay, but he can and does feel safe in the presence of a stranger when there is only one. Huge for him! 'What is' is the reality that he may never be able to feel safe interacting with strange dogs, and that is okay, but he can see them from a safe distance without 'exploding' into a tirade of lunging and yelling 'Get out of my space!'. We are so proud of him. 'What is' is that he is a loving, loyal, sweet, happy, funny boy who charms us with his 'sense of humor', his thieving ways and silly antics, getting tangled up in a tunnel chute and once freed from it, wants to do it again, comes to mind, and cuddles on the bed at night. 'What is' is a sweet and innocent soul who deserved a chance, was given a chance and has rewarded us in so many ways for opening our hearts to him.


Charliethree: What you said is so beautiful!! I agree completely. Our Smooch gave us so much more than we ever gave her and her name was Bedlam when we adopted her. You are so right-have no expectations and take One Day at a Time and things will work out. I agree with Carolina Mom that the rescue dog you are supposed to have finds you. It has happened with our Munchkin, Smooch and now Tucker. I wouldn't trade them for the world!! Joseph looks SO SWEET. I am so happy for both of you!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I think we all struggle when we have a dog with 'special needs', there are days when we wonder how much we can take, 'Is there more? Really?, but there are so many days when we have a 'normal' dog and it is fantastic!! They are all 'normal' underneath, regular dogs who want and need what all dogs need, safety, security, love and understanding, they just need a little more of it. Sometimes, as with Joseph, unravelling the mystery, resolving the 'issues', gave rise to 'new' and difficult behaviors, and you wonder 'When does it all stop?' but then take a deep breath, commit to continuing on this journey to an unknown destination. Deep down we 'know' it can and it will get better for them.
As difficult as it has been for us, I cannot imagine how difficult it is for these dogs. Driven to love and bond with human kind, and yet conflicted, as life has taught them things can be rough, 'man' can be heartless and cruel, they never forget, yet they never, ever give up hope, they never give up on us. Yet they take great joy in everyday life, happy to be alive, loved, and cared as they should have been right from the start. 
This road must be travelled to be truly understood, words cannot do it justice. To those who have travelled it, 'Bless your hearts.' I 'Thank you' and those whose lives you have saved, given safe haven to, even temporarily, and found a place in your heart, I know would 'Thank you' from the bottom of their huge, huge, hearts.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Amen*



Charliethree said:


> I think we all struggle when we have a dog with 'special needs', there are days when we wonder how much we can take, 'Is there more? Really?, but there are so many days when we have a 'normal' dog and it is fantastic!! They are all 'normal' underneath, regular dogs who want and need what all dogs need, safety, security, love and understanding, they just need a little more of it. Sometimes, as with Joseph, unravelling the mystery, resolving the 'issues', gave rise to 'new' and difficult behaviors, and you wonder 'When does it all stop?' but then take a deep breath, commit to continuing on this journey to an unknown destination. Deep down we 'know' it can and it will get better for them.
> As difficult as it has been for us, I cannot imagine how difficult it is for these dogs. Driven to love and bond with human kind, and yet conflicted, as life has taught them things can be rough, 'man' can be heartless and cruel, they never forget, yet they never, ever give up hope, they never give up on us. Yet they take great joy in everyday life, happy to be alive, loved, and cared as they should have been right from the start.
> This road must be travelled to be truly understood, words cannot do it justice. To those who have travelled it, 'Bless your hearts.' I 'Thank you' and those whose lives you have saved, given safe haven to, even temporarily, and found a place in your heart, I know would 'Thank you' from the bottom of their huge, huge, hearts.


I love everything you said especially how each dog deserves to be loved and taken care of. You can only know this road unless you have travelled it-it is so rewarding to care for these sweet outcasts-they do have HUGE HEARTS AND HAVE so much love to give!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

They absolutely do have so much love to give, and are so willing to give it, if they are given a chance. It is nothing short of amazing the relationships, the partnerships, we form with these dogs. Perhaps because we have to work a little 'harder' to earn and keep their trust, perhaps because they need 'more' from us, perhaps, because we sense their pain, their fear, their sadness, see it in their eyes, feel it as if it were our own. Perhaps it is because we learn so much about ourselves from them. We learn that we can give, without expectation of something in return, we learn to accept 'what is' and keep hope alive for what can be. We learn to appreciate, and celebrate, the 'small' things in life, that are huge accomplishments for them. We marvel at the quiet times, those moments when we can feel the peace they feel, and our hearts soar when we see the smiles on their faces when they realize it is okay to play for the very first time, then we know they truly 'believe' and they begin to enjoy life as they should.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Charliethree*

You have such a beautiful way of expressing yourself! You write from your heart and soul.
I agree with everything you've said!
Such a SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP we have with them; unlike any other!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

It is the relationship, the deep seated bond, that is so fascinating, it is not a conscious effort, more something that happens over time, and quite honestly, hard to fathom until you are in it. With Joseph and Charlie too, it has been like unwrapping a gift, hidden behind so many layers of mystery, intrigue, discovery, a bit of heart ache and a ton of joy! 
We begin the journey, as they do, with perhaps a bit of caution, worry, over what may lay ahead and as the layers peel back we begin to learn about what, not what, but the amazing 'who' that lies hidden within. They 'speak', slowly opening the book of life that was, we learn to listen as they tell us their stories, one paragraph, one page, at a time, we promise them a better life. In time we let go the heartache of what was, and move on to building 'what will be', and continue the journey of helping them learn that it is okay to 'roll in the grass', just have fun, and live life as it should be. As time goes by the mystery unfolds, we marvel at their courage and their strength, their willingness to trust and give, we laugh at their silly quirks, Joseph is a thief with no hope of 'recovery', Charlie is a sassy boy, spunky and cheeky, wouldn't change a thing. We embrace who they are, enchanted by the journey we have travelled with them, honored to be granted a 'gift' of such immeasurable proportions, and take every chance we get to 'roll in the grass', right alongside them!


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Charliethree*



Charliethree said:


> It is the relationship, the deep seated bond, that is so fascinating, it is not a conscious effort, more something that happens over time, and quite honestly, hard to fathom until you are in it. With Joseph and Charlie too, it has been like unwrapping a gift, hidden behind so many layers of mystery, intrigue, discovery, a bit of heart ache and a ton of joy!
> We begin the journey, as they do, with perhaps a bit of caution, worry, over what may lay ahead and as the layers peel back we begin to learn about what, not what, but the amazing 'who' that lies hidden within. They 'speak', slowly opening the book of life that was, we learn to listen as they tell us their stories, one paragraph, one page, at a time, we promise them a better life. In time we let go the heartache of what was, and move on to building 'what will be', and continue the journey of helping them learn that it is okay to 'roll in the grass', just have fun, and live life as it should be. As time goes by the mystery unfolds, we marvel at their courage and their strength, their willingness to trust and give, we laugh at their silly quirks, Joseph is a thief with no hope of 'recovery', Charlie is a sassy boy, spunky and cheeky, wouldn't change a thing. We embrace who they are, enchanted by the journey we have travelled with them, honored to be granted a 'gift' of such immeasurable proportions, and take every chance we get to 'roll in the grass', right alongside them!


You are so right-it is like unwrapping a gift. Tucker and Tonka are so different, each with their very lovable qualities!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

As the 'layers' began to fall by the wayside, we learned that more we learned the more there was to learn, in unravelling the mystery, the puzzle became more complex. It took some time to help him learn to relax and feel safe, but there were still bouts of redirected 'aggression', over arousal during certain events that would lead to bullying, or instigating a 'fight'. He had no idea how to communicate appropriately with other dogs, or what they were 'telling' him, and he learned the 'hard way', yes, he was unceremoniously given a quick and unforgettable lesson about when to 'move away', and give the other dog some space, to have some respect, and, in time, how to play appropriately.
Some of his unwanted behaviors were managed through separating him from the others at times when we knew he would go over board, until he settled and was able to maintain some 'self control' and 'behave' himself. Other situations required helping him understand what was expected of him, that pushing around the other dogs was not appropriate, or allowed, and that staying calm, giving them space, was rewarding for him. It took some time for him to change, but he did.
Sometimes we needed to change our approach in working with him. It took some time for us to solve the puzzle and understand that separating him from the others due to his 'rude'/pushy, challenging behaviour, ultimately increased his anxiety/stress levels, causing him to behave that way again. It had become a cycle of 'no win' for anyone, until we realized that perhaps, it was his desire, his need for more attention and to be 'included' that was driving the behavior in the first place. Simply put, 'isolation' was extremely stressful for him, including him more, working with him more, redirecting, rather than separating, when necessary, has worked wonders for him! We spend a little extra time with him, training sessions he loves, agility lights up his eyes, makes his 'day' and tires him out, and makes it easier for him to settle, maintain 'self control', and life is a bit 'easier' for all of us!


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Yes!*



Charliethree said:


> As the 'layers' began to fall by the wayside, we learned that more we learned the more there was to learn, in unravelling the mystery, the puzzle became more complex. It took some time to help him learn to relax and feel safe, but there were still bouts of redirected 'aggression', over arousal during certain events that would lead to bullying, or instigating a 'fight'. He had no idea how to communicate appropriately with other dogs, or what they were 'telling' him, and he learned the 'hard way', yes, he was unceremoniously given a quick and unforgettable lesson about when to 'move away', and give the other dog some space, to have some respect, and, in time, how to play appropriately.
> Some of his unwanted behaviors were managed through separating him from the others at times when we knew he would go over board, until he settled and was able to maintain some 'self control' and 'behave' himself. Other situations required helping him understand what was expected of him, that pushing around the other dogs was not appropriate, or allowed, and that staying calm, giving them space, was rewarding for him. It took some time for him to change, but he did.
> Sometimes we needed to change our approach in working with him. It took some time for us to solve the puzzle and understand that separating him from the others due to his 'rude'/pushy, challenging behaviour, ultimately increased his anxiety/stress levels, causing him to behave that way again. It had become a cycle of 'no win' for anyone, until we realized that perhaps, it was his desire, his need for more attention and to be 'included' that was driving the behavior in the first place. Simply put, 'isolation' was extremely stressful for him, including him more, working with him more, redirecting, rather than separating, when necessary, has worked wonders for him! We spend a little extra time with him, training sessions he loves, agility lights up his eyes, makes his 'day' and tires him out, and makes it easier for him to settle, maintain 'self control', and life is a bit 'easier' for all of us!


You are very wise!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Thank you! 'Real life' has a way of helping us learn what we _need_ to know. I do feel that the more aware we are of our dog's emotional lives, the more we take the time to try to view events, incidents, and the environments they live in from their perspective, through 'their eyes', the more likely we are to be successful in helping them overcome the hurdles in their lives. They are relying on us to help them and we cannot do that effectively, if we cannot allow ourselves, to at least try to 'see' what they 'see'. We may not ever understand why they fear this or that, why certain situations cause them stress and anxiety, but we can recognize that it does, and work at keeping them feeling safe, counter conditioning and desensitizing to the things/situations that they fear, and take the time to teach them, positively, how to do, what we need them to do, and reward them for it. They are more than willing to learn, if we give them a chance.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I don't know how I missed this thread! Karen519 pointed me towards it. What a wonderful story and it gives me hope! Both your guys are very lucky to have you


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

jennretz said:


> I don't know how I missed this thread! Karen519 pointed me towards it. What a wonderful story and it gives me hope! Both your guys are very lucky to have you


Happy to be of 'help'. Hold onto 'hope' and 'believe' with all of your heart. It is not the destination, but the journey we travel with them that makes it all so worthwhile. Those minutes, days, weeks, years we spend changing their lives as much as they change ours, making their lives better as they, in turn, make our lives better, is what it is really 'about' after all. 

I have no doubt that I am the lucky one, all of us with 'special needs' best friends really are, it is the most amazing journey that we are lucky enough to be travelling with them!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Though their 'physical' responses to their fears were vastly different, Charlie kept himself safe with 'flight', running from anything he felt was a threat to him, Joseph was 'conflicted', having learned through experience that 'acting' big and tough and being 'loud' made the scary things go away, he was also prepared for 'flight', the 'program' for recovery was basically the same and the outcome has been amazing! 

Keep them safe, help them feel safe.

Counter conditioning and desensitizing them to the things that they feared.

Teaching them with reward based training what I needed them to know and highly rewarding/reinforcing them for the behaviors, even a tiny steps in the 'right' direction, towards our end 'goal'.


I used a lot of 'capturing' - simply rewarding the behaviors they offered that I wanted from them, and 'shaping' to teach them new behaviors I wanted them to know. Using 'shaping' to teach can be a huge confidence builder for a nervous, shy, or fearful dog. It teaches them that it is 'safe' to offer behaviors, it helps them learn that it is okay to choose and 'think' for themselves, it is safe to try with no risk of getting it 'wrong', something that both Charlie and Joseph were reluctant to do in the beginning. Once they 'caught on' to how it all worked their inhibitions faded away, their eyes lit up, they were ready to 'play' and we have had a lot of fun with it.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I've been practicing a lot of "capturing it" and can't sing enough praises for it. My Charlie caught on very quickly and have actually used it with my non-fearful golden, Duke, as well. Basically, you see the behavior you want and reinforce with a treat. I've been working on "settle" and rewarding when they are in a relaxed state and saying, "nice settle", then treat. One of the most simple, but powerful tools to help train your dog; regardless if they are fearful or not.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

jennretz said:


> I've been practicing a lot of "capturing it" and can't sing enough praises for it. My Charlie caught on very quickly and have actually used it with my non-fearful golden, Duke, as well. Basically, you see the behavior you want and reinforce with a treat. I've been working on "settle" and rewarding when they are in a relaxed state and saying, "nice settle", then treat. One of the most simple, but powerful tools to help train your dog; regardless if they are fearful or not.


Cannot agree with you more!


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## Sunny Delight (Mar 10, 2007)

What a great thread! I started reading it to see what most people would do when they fell in love with a foster, but ended up reading about Joseph's amazing story. I can certainly say that I would not have the strength to do what Charliethree has done for Joseph. 

I ended up adopting my very first foster. At that time, I was worried about how I would handle future fosterings. I already had another golden at home. But that very first foster ended up being the only one, out of about 15 total fosters, I kept. He had some minor health issues, which swimming in our pool seemed to fix, but no social issues. Again, I admire "Charlie"'s strength. Dogs like Joseph are blessed to have families such as yours to truly rescue them.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Thank you for the wonderful compliment and reading Joseph's story. 

I know many would say they wouldn't have the strength to travel this path, it can be pretty scary stuff, and certainly respect that honesty, though must admit I haven't thought about it much. I pretty much took a 'dive into the deep end', one look at the fear and loneliness in their eyes was all it took, (one of the unspoken 'risks' of fostering, I guess), and I had to learn how to 'swim' for them. That being said, I wouldn't have it any other way, these journeys we travel with them are as 'life changing' in a good way, for us, as it is for them.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Charliethree*



Charliethree said:


> Thank you for the wonderful compliment and reading Joseph's story.
> 
> I know many would say they wouldn't have the strength to travel this path, it can be pretty scary stuff, and certainly respect that honesty, though must admit I haven't thought about it much. I pretty much took a 'dive into the deep end', one look at the fear and loneliness in their eyes was all it took, (one of the unspoken 'risks' of fostering, I guess), and I had to learn how to 'swim' for them. That being said, I wouldn't have it any other way, these journeys we travel with them are as 'life changing' in a good way, for us, as it is for them.


Charliethree: I agree with every word you said. One look in their eyes, to see the hurt, fear, loneliness and love they are capable of, is all it takes for me. I plan to always have a rescue dog!! It makes life so rewarding and I love the bonding and growing that is done together!!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I think it was in another thread that you discussed fear triggers, "it was just a shirt"...I knew what you meant. For my anxious guy, it's ladders that trigger an actual growling, hair up on back response. I had noticed that response when a neighbor was up on their roof. Then Charlie did it when I was changing a light bulb. You're so right - it's the journey and learning your guys. Celebrating the small successes and being there for them when they're scared. I love this thread!


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Jenn*



jennretz said:


> I think it was in another thread that you discussed fear triggers, "it was just a shirt"...I knew what you meant. For my anxious guy, it's ladders that trigger an actual growling, hair up on back response. I had noticed that response when a neighbor was up on their roof. Then Charlie did it when I was changing a light bulb. You're so right - it's the journey and learning your guys. Celebrating the small successes and being there for them when they're scared. I love this thread!


Jenn: I remember how scared and startled my Smooch was, when we first got her and a pickup truck roared by! She also was terrified of rain.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

It really makes you wonder what went on, (or didn't go on), in their lives. In the early days with Joseph, he was afraid to go outside alone after dark, and if he did it was for a few seconds, but then he would stand at the doorway, hesitant to come in. He was conflicted about receiving attention, though he craved it, he was not totally at ease with it - he expected punishment. Inside, if something happened that he perceived was 'wrong', whether it had anything to do with him or not, he would run and hide in the back of his crate, and it would take a lot of 'convincing' for him to get the courage to crawl out. During the daylight hours when we would let him outside, it was curious, almost sad, to watch how he played by himself. He would take a ball, a stick, a piece of paper, toss it in the air, pounce on it, toss it again, run with it, bury it in the dirt and dig it up again, over and over. Though we can only guess, to me it seemed like, this was a puppy, who had spent far too much time in the backyard and alone. Lack of positive socialization with the world, people and other dogs, combined with being lost or abandoned, at about a year old, when he was likely going through a 'fear' stage had turned him into a 'terrified' dog.
Charlie, came with a whole host of fears, his fear of being touched was our first hurdle to overcome, then we worked on his fear of the collar, leash and harness, and ever so slowly his fear of being abandoned, once again. He had a hard time leaving home, his place of comfort and safety, walks were measured by minutes and yards, even now, he cannot walk down the sidewalk if someone is following behind, we have to stop, move to the side, and let the person go by. Visiting new places brings that look of 'worry' to his face, even yet, but he looks to me for reassurance, and bravely carries on. Noisy or large vehicles, even parked ones, city buses, are fear triggers we still work on. New people, he is now able to take treats, pets he allows if he has met the person a few times, and then only, on the neck under the chin. 
One by one, we unravel the mystery, of not only what causes them fear, apprehension, but also what brings them joy, what they love, their favorite way to 'roll in the grass'. 
I don't think one can truly grasp, or have empathy for, the depth and breadth of the emotional life of a dog until they have travelled a journey with a fearful dog. They are utterly amazing, fascinating, courageous and giving, fun loving fantastic best friends.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

Charliethree said:


> It really makes you wonder what went on, (or didn't go on), in their lives. In the early days with Joseph, he was afraid to go outside alone after dark, and if he did it was for a few seconds, but then he would stand at the doorway, hesitant to come in. He was conflicted about receiving attention, though he craved it, he was not totally at ease with it - he expected punishment. Inside, if something happened that he perceived was 'wrong', whether it had anything to do with him or not, he would run and hide in the back of his crate, and it would take a lot of 'convincing' for him to get the courage to crawl out. During the daylight hours when we would let him outside, it was curious, almost sad, to watch how he played by himself. He would take a ball, a stick, a piece of paper, toss it in the air, pounce on it, toss it again, run with it, bury it in the dirt and dig it up again, over and over. Though we can only guess, to me it seemed like, this was a puppy, who had spent far too much time in the backyard and alone. Lack of positive socialization with the world, people and other dogs, combined with being lost or abandoned, at about a year old, when he was likely going through a 'fear' stage had turned him into a 'terrified' dog.
> Charlie, came with a whole host of fears, his fear of being touched was our first hurdle to overcome, then we worked on his fear of the collar, leash and harness, and ever so slowly his fear of being abandoned, once again. He had a hard time leaving home, his place of comfort and safety, walks were measured by minutes and yards, even now, he cannot walk down the sidewalk if someone is following behind, we have to stop, move to the side, and let the person go by. Visiting new places brings that look of 'worry' to his face, even yet, but he looks to me for reassurance, and bravely carries on. Noisy or large vehicles, even parked ones, city buses, are fear triggers we still work on. New people, he is now able to take treats, pets he allows if he has met the person a few times, and then only, on the neck under the chin.
> One by one, we unravel the mystery, of not only what causes them fear, apprehension, but also what brings them joy, what they love, their favorite way to 'roll in the grass'.
> I don't think one can truly grasp, or have empathy for, the depth and breadth of the emotional life of a dog until they have travelled a journey with a fearful dog. They are utterly amazing, fascinating, courageous and giving, fun loving fantastic best friends.


Smooch was afraid of the dark and wouldn't go out if it was going to rain in the next few hours! She was terrified of loud noises. It took Ken one year to teach her to be comfortable walking on a leash.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Karen519 said:


> Smooch was afraid of the dark and wouldn't go out if it was going to rain in the next few hours! She was terrified of loud noises. It took Ken one year to teach her to be comfortable walking on a leash.


 It is amazing what they can overcome, given the time, the love, the patience they deserve. 
Reading my last post, I hope I did not give the wrong impression, it hasn't been all 'work', not by any stretch of the imagination. These dogs, despite the 'baggage' they arrived with, have been a joy, a pleasure, an honor to live and learn with. Their 'challenges' were opportunities to grow and learn, I started out at 'square one' just like everyone does, their stories are not 'about me' what I have 'done', but a tribute to them, the struggles they faced, the challenges they have overcome, 'who they are', the dogs they have become, loyal, loving, fun and fantastic best friends, in spite of the hardships they have experienced in their lives. 

'Don't pity the rescued dog. Adopt one. Be proud to have their greatness by your side.'


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Charliethree*



Charliethree said:


> It is amazing what they can overcome, given the time, the love, the patience they deserve.
> Reading my last post, I hope I did not give the wrong impression, it hasn't been all 'work', not by any stretch of the imagination. These dogs, despite the 'baggage' they arrived with, have been a joy, a pleasure, an honor to live and learn with. Their 'challenges' were opportunities to grow and learn, I started out at 'square one' just like everyone does, their stories are not 'about me' what I have 'done', but a tribute to them, the struggles they faced, the challenges they have overcome, 'who they are', the dogs they have become, loyal, loving, fun and fantastic best friends, in spite of the hardships they have experienced in their lives.
> 
> 'Don't pity the rescued dog. Adopt one. Be proud to have their greatness by your side.'


Charliethree: I agree with everything you said. 
They bring such immeasurable joy and pleasure!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Sometimes things don't go as they should, sometimes things can get a bit rough. Life gets busy, and little things go unnoticed until there are scuffles and fights. There have been some changes here lately, that could be the root of the issues, the pack 'dynamics' have changed after losing our senior girl a few months ago, our work schedules changed for a bit, I was on holidays, so home for a while but have gone back to work, and our senior boy Buddy, who is 'top dog' is getting 'frail', it may be that Joseph is sensing that. His anxiety levels have increased, pinpointing the cause is puzzling indeed, resulting in him lashing out during overexciting/high arousal times, and starting fights. We are considering a couple of things to help lower Joseph's stress levels. We thinking about another trial with the low protein diet, it worked so well for him the last time, or we may do a trial period of giving him tryptophan to help change his mood, help him relax. Just like people, we all have our ups and downs, good times and bad times, life is like that, and we deal with 'what is' and work with him to get him back to being the dog we know he 'can be'.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

You have learned so much on this journey, haven't you? Joseph is so very lucky you came into his life. I don't think he would still be here if it weren't for you.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

jennretz said:


> You have learned so much on this journey, haven't you? Joseph is so very lucky you came into his life. I don't think he would still be here if it weren't for you.


Absolutely, there has been a lot to learn, and so much more to learn, but I am so very Thankful to have had the best of 'teachers' along the way. Joseph and Charlie too, my inspiration, my 'motivation' to learn from them, grow with them and for them, and to continue to educate myself so that I can continue to help them (and others too). The certified canine behaviorist, for whom I am so very grateful for, who helped us so much with Joseph in the early days, when things were really, really rough, got us off to the right start, and has continued to offer her support and guidance along the ways, when we need it, has helped us make this 'impossible' journey - possible, we could not have done it alone, and we thank her from the bottom of our hearts.

Joseph was very lucky, dogs like him don't often get a second chance, but we made him a promise, and we will continue to keep that promise to him.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Second Chance*



Charliethree said:


> Absolutely, there has been a lot to learn, and so much more to learn, but I am so very Thankful to have had the best of 'teachers' along the way. Joseph and Charlie too, my inspiration, my 'motivation' to learn from them, grow with them and for them, and to continue to educate myself so that I can continue to help them (and others too). The certified canine behaviorist, for whom I am so very grateful for, who helped us so much with Joseph in the early days, when things were really, really rough, got us off to the right start, and has continued to offer her support and guidance along the ways, when we need it, has helped us make this 'impossible' journey - possible, we could not have done it alone, and we thank her from the bottom of our hearts.
> 
> Joseph was very lucky, dogs like him don't often get a second chance, but we made him a promise, and we will continue to keep that promise to him.



You are so right! Most black dogs don't get a second chance-it is SO sad, that they are the least likely to be adopted!

We took our Smooch and Snobear to a 90 minute training class. It was the best money that we ever spent. The trainer told us we were the problem and showed us how to only pay attention to them, when they were exhibiting GOOD behavior.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Just checking in to see how your crew is doing...


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Thanks for asking. We haven't had any more 'scuffles', largely due to paying closer attention, managing the those situations where the scuffles have occurred in the past more carefully, separating, when needed, until the dogs have all calmed down, monitoring 're-introductions', which is where the 'problems' tend to arise. 
Wish I could say it is easy, there is a simple solution, (other than getting rid of one of the dogs, which is NOT an option) but there is not, so we work to find the 'answers' we need and work with that.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Celebrating 'National Black Dog Day' with Joseph. 
Probably one of the most amazing, inspiring, and 'challenging' dogs I have ever met. Love him to pieces!!!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

He's so handsome!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

The trainer I've worked with posted this on her FB page; traing tales with terri. It's a good reference for those of us with anxious dogs.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Joseph got himself into a bit of 'trouble', a not so gentle reminder of how quickly things can go wrong. He got into an altercation with another dog and ended up needing stitches in his shoulder, the other dog was uninjured, and is now sporting a Medical Pet Shirt, similar to a Thundershirt, fits snug, protects the wound from licking or scratching. Interesting is the impact wearing this shirt is having on him, though it may be perceived that he is 'calm and quiet', he is for the most part 'shut down', stressed, anxious, and his appetite is suppressed. He developed an 'aversion' to his regular dog food, but will eat other foods like rollover and of course the treats - so we are not letting him 'starve' by any means. Unfortunately he will have to wear the shirt a few more days until his stitches can come out, despite how he feels about it.

It is worthwhile noting, that for some dogs the Thundershirt, (or a snug fitting T-shirt) can help them to calm and relax, but for others, like Joseph, it can have the opposite effect and add to their anxiety and stress.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

So sorry to hear about Joseph...hope he heals quickly. I know what you mean about the thundershirt. While Charlie is ok with thundershirt, if I put the cone on him, he completely shuts down like how you describe Joseph. Hope things start to calm down for him again.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Oddly enough, Joseph had the same emotional response to a harness, putting one on him caused him to 'freeze', his feet are 'stuck' in place, and he would stand and blink, with an occasional lip lick avoiding eye contact. We have been working on this (counter conditioning- pairing it with treats, and 'life' rewards) with him for a long time, he has gotten more comfortable with it, but even now, the harness is not something he is totally 'at ease' with, especially when it is first put on him. For what ever reason, whatever his experience. or perhaps lack of appropriate handling experience, had been before he came to us, restraint/close 'confinement' of any type is fear inducing for him.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Joseph*



Charliethree said:


> Joseph got himself into a bit of 'trouble', a not so gentle reminder of how quickly things can go wrong. He got into an altercation with another dog and ended up needing stitches in his shoulder, the other dog was uninjured, and is now sporting a Medical Pet Shirt, similar to a Thundershirt, fits snug, protects the wound from licking or scratching. Interesting is the impact wearing this shirt is having on him, though it may be perceived that he is 'calm and quiet', he is for the most part 'shut down', stressed, anxious, and his appetite is suppressed. He developed an 'aversion' to his regular dog food, but will eat other foods like rollover and of course the treats - so we are not letting him 'starve' by any means. Unfortunately he will have to wear the shirt a few more days until his stitches can come out, despite how he feels about it.
> 
> It is worthwhile noting, that for some dogs the Thundershirt, (or a snug fitting T-shirt) can help them to calm and relax, but for others, like Joseph, it can have the opposite effect and add to their anxiety and stress.


Joseph is so beautiful. So sorry to hear about his injury. I never heard of a Pet Medical Shirt! Wonder if the vets in Illinois know about them.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I believe the Medical Pet Shirt was created in the Netherlands, had never heard of one myself, but what a blessing, it was.

Though his injury continues to heal well, his lack of appetite and interest in doing much of anything continued as well, and was very concerning. I did some checking into the antibiotic he is on (Baytril) and discovered there can be side effects from it, including loss of appetite, lethargy, depression, stomach upset, so we talked to his vet, thinking we might be able to put him on something else. The vet explained that doing so runs the risk of creating an antibiotic resistant 'super bug', so not a wise move or an option for Joseph. Still having a gut feeling that the 'shirt' itself was contributing to his behavior, (or lack of) we decided to try replacing it with a looser fitting T-shirt. Though still not totally happy about wearing a shirt, Joseph soon started feeling a bit better, relaxing a bit, and we managed to get him to eat some dog food, not a whole meal, but at least he had something in his stomach. The 'real' Joseph is not quite 'back' yet, but his interest in counter surfing has returned, telling us 'Joseph' is on his way.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Really glad to hear Joseph is improving, hope he continues to do so. 
Wishing him a speedy recovery from his injury too.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

He is getting better, ate a full meal last night, for the first time in about a week. He is much more comfortable and relaxed in his 'new clothes'. He is due to get his stitches out on Friday, then he should be 'good to go', hoping his fur gets a chance to grow back on his naked shoulder before the snow flies around here.


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Just getting caught up on this thread. So sorry Joseph got into some trouble but glad he's healing well now. "Special" dogs can be complicated to love.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Really hoping he attempts to counter surf soon so you know he's back to "normal" 

Baytril is very powerful. Duke was on it for a month once when he had a prostate infection. He was generally miserable at the time so hard to remember if medicine impacted him. I have a feeling it's the shirt and not feeling well that are impacting Joseph (in my uneducated experience)....just a gut feeling


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I think we cannot help but love those 'special' dogs just a little bit 'more'! 

I do agree that it is likely a combination of things impacting Joseph's behavior and how he is feeling right now. Once we get past this, we will have the Joseph back that we adore.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Joseph*



Charliethree said:


> I think we cannot help but love those 'special' dogs just a little bit 'more'!
> 
> I do agree that it is likely a combination of things impacting Joseph's behavior and how he is feeling right now. Once we get past this, we will have the Joseph back that we adore.


Praying Joseph feels better very soon! 

When do his stitches come out and how long does he have to wear the shirt? I know they don't want him chewing and licking on himself.


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## Pilgrim123 (Jul 26, 2014)

That's very interesting about Joseph's reaction to the medical/thundershirt. It does make sense, though. Girlie loves to be stroked, but gets frantic if she's restrained.
Ah, but you must be pleased with how much he has achieved - and you, too.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Charliethree said:


> I think we cannot help but love those 'special' dogs just a little bit 'more'!


I think you hit the nail on the head with what you've said above. 

I've always felt the ones that need us the most always leave a huge impact on our lives and hearts. 

Have you ever tried a Thundershirt on Joseph? I have one for my Roxy, I don't have to use it too often anymore. Within a few minutes of putting it on her, I see a big difference, she becomes very calm and relaxed.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Joseph is due to have his stitches out on Friday, he has to wear the shirt until then, even though he hasn't bothered the wound at all, we keep it on him just in case. He is much less stressed by the looser shirt.

It is puzzling why he reacts to being 'confined/restrained' with such anxiety, he came to us at about a year old, picked up as a terrified 'stray', so we really have no idea what his past was like, wish he could talk! Many dogs are not comfortable with being 'restrained', being hugged or even 'snuggled' with, when it is not their choice.
We are very proud of him, he has come such a long ways!! 

We did try a Thundershirt on him, a couple of times, and he would instantly go into a 'panic' mode, it totally 'freaked' him out. If he didn't 'freeze', he would do everything he could to 'escape' it, when that didn't work he would just lay down and 'shut down'. Putting a harness on him, a necessary 'evil' in his early days with us, as we were taking him to reactivity classes, brings on a similar response, in hindsight, it may have been that it became a predictor of leaving the safety of 'home' going out into a world that terrified him. Had I known then, what I know now, I would have given him much longer to settle in, help him learn that he was safe, and adjust to his new 'home', but since, at the time, he was a foster dog, and we had little understanding of what we were dealing with, there was the unspoken 'pressure' to fix him - 'make' him more 'adoptable' sooner than later. 

A valuable lesson when we find ourselves living with a fearful or reactive dog - they need to feel safe and secure at home, before we can begin to slowly expose them to the 'real world' and work with them to help them overcome their challenges.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

I completely agree they need to feel safe and secure at home before you expose them to the world, found this to be true with my girl. 

Sorry to hear the Thundershirt didn't work with Joseph. Sounds as if he was confined in some way(s) before you got him. If only he could tell you, huh?


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

It certainly would be nice if he could! It sometimes feels like we are groping in the dark, not knowing what to look for or what we will find, or grasping at straws, trying to make 'sense' of it all. But then again, if we had all the 'answers', we would miss out on all the lessons they have come to help us learn.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Joseph*

Glad to hear that Joseph is getting his stitches out on Friday and can hopefully wear a looser shirt. My rescue girl Smooch, was terrified of rain and thunder and was a stray. I am convinced she lived outside and got her fear of rain that way.

```

```


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Couldn't agree more with them needing to feel safe at home before trying other things.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

We need to understand that their fears, no matter how 'unreasonable' or 'silly' they may seem to us, a very REAL for them, they ARE afraid and it is our 'commitment' to helping them overcome those fears, and help them feel safe, and comfortable in their world, no matter how big or small it may be, that will set them 'free'. and allow them to live the lives they deserve to have.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Agree*



Charliethree said:


> We need to understand that their fears, no matter how 'unreasonable' or 'silly' they may seem to us, a very REAL for them, they ARE afraid and it is our 'commitment' to helping them overcome those fears, and help them feel safe, and comfortable in their world, no matter how big or small it may be, that will set them 'free'. and allow them to live the lives they deserve to have.


Completely agree! They deserve only the best and to be loved unconditionally, like they love us!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Joseph is all healed up and is now, stitch and shirt free, and focused, very focused, on resuming life as it was before being so rudely interupted. His 'surfing' skills, intact and undamaged, he is doing his best to resume life as it was, making up for 'lost' time. His 'dad' took him and a couple of his buddies for a walk out in the country, a place where Joseph can truly be free, to run, be a dog, spend some time truly 'stress free'. They had a great time, running until they could run no more, splashing in the creek, rolling in the snow that remained on the ground between the trees, came home 'dog tired', happy as can be!


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Joseph*



Charliethree said:


> Joseph is all healed up and is now, stitch and shirt free, and focused, very focused, on resuming life as it was before being so rudely interupted. His 'surfing' skills, intact and undamaged, he is doing his best to resume life as it was, making up for 'lost' time. His 'dad' took him and a couple of his buddies for a walk out in the country, a place where Joseph can truly be free, to run, be a dog, spend some time truly 'stress free'. They had a great time, running until they could run no more, splashing in the creek, rolling in the snow that remained on the ground between the trees, came home 'dog tired', happy as can be!


I was smiling ear to ear, as I read about Joseph's great time with his Dad. :wavey:
So glad he is feeling better!:wavey:


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

What a great update!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Though it may be a combination of things (or perhaps wishful thinking - time will tell), and Joseph has had some time to 'come down' from his stressful experience, what we are seeing is almost 'magical'. When we were trying to get him to eat, we bought a food which by chance, not specifically what we were looking for at the time, has a lower protein content than the food he was on, he is eating it with 'gusto', so we have kept him on it. What we are seeing is a bit 'softer' Joseph, a little more relaxed, a little less intensity in his response to an event that had in the past had led to over arousal, and unwanted behaviors. 
I had returned from a walk with Charlie, Joseph's 'target' dog, Joseph was behind the baby gate, when we came into the house. Instead of pacing, whining and low growling, wanting to 'get at' Charlie, Joseph remained calm, watched, whined a bit, and waited for the treats that happen when we come in - he got plenty!! (So did Charlie) When I opened the gate to allow them to 'greet' there was no pushing or trying to intimidate, as usually happens, it was pretty amazing to see.
Yes, it was just 'once', not thinking by any means that the 'problem' is solved, but knowing it CAN happen, that it is 'possible', is certainly worth celebrating!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I saw this today, and think it is very appropriate here. We struggle with our dog's inappropriate behavior, with finding ways to help them over come, and sometimes, we are led to believe there is a 'quick fix' and truly there is none. Keep this in mind.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*So VERY true!*



Charliethree said:


> I saw this today, and think it is very appropriate here. We struggle with our dog's inappropriate behavior, with finding ways to help them over come, and sometimes, we are led to believe there is a 'quick fix' and truly there is none. Keep this in mind.
> 
> View attachment 575042


This is VERY TRUE!:wavey:


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Someone stole 'Joseph', and if I am dreaming, please don't wake me up!

Though there is not a lot of research done with dogs on how or if diet affects behavior, sometimes a change in diet can help to enable the dog to 'behave' more appropriately. I am not at all suggesting a change in diet is a 'cure all' or a decision to be made lightly, it is something to consider trying on a 'trial basis' to see if it helps.
Joseph has been on a lower protein diet for a couple of weeks, the changes we are seeing in him have been wonderful. He has calmed down a lot, his body language has softened, he sleeps better, not bolting up at the slightest noise, he less tense, less 'anxious', a much more relaxed and happy boy. So much so that we have had the pleasure of watching a couple of 'bitey face' play sessions with him and Charlie, in the last few days, an extremely rare 'event'. They laid on the floor face to face, quite relaxed and having a great time, when Charlie was done he simply stood up and walked away, Joseph didn't get up and insist Charlie play more, which is usually how these play sessions 'end'. 
'Home comings' can be a 'high arousal' time for Joseph, often resulting in inappropriate, pushy, nippy behavior towards Charlie, but when I came in the door with Charlie after being out for a walk, Joseph calmly came out the door, sniffed and said 'hello' and walked back into the house, no fuss, no muss, no posturing or intimidation at all.
I came home from work the other day and was greeted with an 'all out' full body wag, barking in excitement, front paws paddling up and down, welcome home 'Happy Dance' from Joseph. A first for me, his 'dad' is his favorite human being. Charlie,has his own welcome home party, barking, and snapping his mouth like an alligator, dancing in circles, so sweet to see!

There have been lots of 'little' changes, some things that he is doing that he wasn't before, and the other way around, offering a 'play bow' is new for him, he usually 'demands' the others play with him, attending to 'cut off' signals and willingly stopping play, is huge for him. Sitting calmly watching the dog across the street, something that would cause quite a 'blow up', is pretty amazing to me. 
We are seeing a 'Joseph', we don't often get to see, a calm, relaxed, 'loose', thinking and content dog, who still loves to play, 'surf' and cause a raucous now and again - normal dog behavior we take for granted with our untroubled dogs. So now, we have a 'new beginning' - we focus on repeating, rewarding, reinforcing all those behaviors, some of which we had come to believe 'only in our dreams', that he is now more capable of.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Wow!*



Charliethree said:


> Someone stole 'Joseph', and if I am dreaming, please don't wake me up!
> 
> Though there is not a lot of research done with dogs on how or if diet affects behavior, sometimes a change in diet can help to enable the dog to 'behave' more appropriately. I am not at all suggesting a change in diet is a 'cure all' or a decision to be made lightly, it is something to consider trying on a 'trial basis' to see if it helps.
> Joseph has been on a lower protein diet for a couple of weeks, the changes we are seeing in him have been wonderful. He has calmed down a lot, his body language has softened, he sleeps better, not bolting up at the slightest noise, he less tense, less 'anxious', a much more relaxed and happy boy. So much so that we have had the pleasure of watching a couple of 'bitey face' play sessions with him and Charlie, in the last few days, an extremely rare 'event'. They laid on the floor face to face, quite relaxed and having a great time, when Charlie was done he simply stood up and walked away, Joseph didn't get up and insist Charlie play more, which is usually how these play sessions 'end'.
> ...


WOW! Could the lower protein diet make that much of a difference?
What are you feeding him?


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I do believe the change in diet, at least in part, (there is no substitute for teaching the skills they need, and repetition and reinforcing those skills for life), is contributing to the positive change in behavior. He was eating Acana Ranchlands (31% protein) and is now on Blue Buffalo, Holistic, lamb (turkey) and brown rice, which is 22% protein.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Joseph*



Charliethree said:


> I do believe the change in diet, at least in part, (there is no substitute for teaching the skills they need, and repetition and reinforcing those skills for life), is contributing to the positive change in behavior. He was eating Acana Ranchlands (31% protein) and is now on Blue Buffalo, Holistic, lamb (turkey) and brown rice, which is 22% protein.


So happy for Joseph and you!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Thank you, it has been quite the journey, and it is wonderful to see such a change in him. It gives hope for the future, what 'will be', it gives a sense of 'peace' to see him resting so easily. It also gives hope that the relationship between him and Charlie (his 'target') will get better, and they can co-exist on a happier note.


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Charliethree said:


> Someone stole 'Joseph', and if I am dreaming, please don't wake me up!
> 
> Though there is not a lot of research done with dogs on how or if diet affects behavior, sometimes a change in diet can help to enable the dog to 'behave' more appropriately. I am not at all suggesting a change in diet is a 'cure all' or a decision to be made lightly, it is something to consider trying on a 'trial basis' to see if it helps.
> Joseph has been on a lower protein diet for a couple of weeks, the changes we are seeing in him have been wonderful. He has calmed down a lot, his body language has softened, he sleeps better, not bolting up at the slightest noise, he less tense, less 'anxious', a much more relaxed and happy boy. So much so that we have had the pleasure of watching a couple of 'bitey face' play sessions with him and Charlie, in the last few days, an extremely rare 'event'. They laid on the floor face to face, quite relaxed and having a great time, when Charlie was done he simply stood up and walked away, Joseph didn't get up and insist Charlie play more, which is usually how these play sessions 'end'.
> ...


I'm interested that you put Joseph back onto the low protein diet. We had discussed that a while back. I had Bella on it also for a long time and in the last year or so moved her back to a regular food. She is taking Prozac daily and that seems to help her more than the low-protein food did, although I did see improvement with that. What made you decide to go back to the l-p diet?


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Also, thought you might enjoy this. Found it on Facebook today. A nice summation/description of fearful dogs.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

What an amazing update to read. I love seeing your stories of Joseph and Charlie (the ups and the downs). I feel like I'm getting to know your boys....and love their personalities


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

OutWest said:


> I'm interested that you put Joseph back onto the low protein diet. We had discussed that a while back. I had Bella on it also for a long time and in the last year or so moved her back to a regular food. She is taking Prozac daily and that seems to help her more than the low-protein food did, although I did see improvement with that. What made you decide to go back to the l-p diet?


 Our decision to trial Joseph again on the low protein diet, was influenced by a number of things. His behavior was escalating, causing a lot of stress and tension amongst all the dogs, he seemed to be unable to 'slow down' and just 'settle' for more than a few moments at a time. He was easily set off and to 'go off' on Charlie (in particular) , more 'willing' to push the 'limits 'of the other dogs (not just Charlie) and get into scuffles, which were becoming more serious as well. Even though management (separating and giving him time to settle, during those times he was prone to becoming 'unruly' ) was working to prevent the scuffles, it did not address the underlying reason (fear/ anxiety/stress) for the 'inappropriate' behavior in the first place. 
For us, (I do believe it is a personal choice, and those making that choice need to educate themselves on not only the potential 'benefits' but the potential 'risks' as well, and make an informed decision on what is right for them and their dog) 'medicating' Joseph is no more an 'option' now than it was a couple of years ago when it was suggested to us. We are not convinced there are no other, more 'natural', less risky solutions, that aren't worth trying first, and I do believe I owe it to him to take the 'safer' route for his sake. His behavior is not 'out of control', or unmanageable, or 'unbearable', nor is he at risk of losing his life or his home, our goal, our hope, is that we can give him the help he needs as 'naturally' and safely as possible.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

jennretz said:


> What an amazing update to read. I love seeing your stories of Joseph and Charlie (the ups and the downs). I feel like I'm getting to know your boys....and love their personalities


Thank you! I find it intriguing how they behave so differently in response to their fears. Charlie - avoidance /flight mode kicked in quickly, kept him safe, Joseph had learned that 'yelling' ('swearing' as our trainer calls it) and acting 'tough' is what kept him safe. They both have the most amazing temperaments, soft, gentle and so giving, neither one has ever raised a lip or growled at us, both of them just light up, radiate with all over 'pure joy' when they are playing, having fun.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Despite having a bit of an 'upset', where Joseph got himself into a bit of 'hot water' with big brother Milo, Joseph continues to do extremely well. I had the dogs out playing in the backyard, Milo was playing/wrestling with Kaya, and Joseph tried to interfere, break it up. I suspect in his efforts he bit Milo a little too hard, and Milo went after him. They do have a good play history, and Milo is usually quite tolerant of Joseph's play style, and social ineptness, so it is rare that they get physical, and it took me by surprise. They fought briefly, lots of noise, no injuries, it ended fairly quickly with Joseph, tail between his legs, turning and moving away, (creating space), which is huge for Joseph, Milo turned away from Joseph as well, signalling it is 'over' and they all settled down. 

Those events that had been a big problem (home comings, which are unavoidable) that had triggered Joseph's 'inappropriate' behavior, have been going very well - so much so that when I came in from work yesterday I was moved to exclaim, so proud of them all, 'We can do this!!! Yes we can!!' as Joseph and Charlie greeted me, side by side, no posturing, no growling, no pushing, no conflict, just soft body language, wagging tails, happy puppies!


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Joseph*

Joseph is making such progress. It is amazing to see them GROW, one day at a time. You are an incredible parent!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

We have been working with Joseph to help him overcome his fear of strangers. A friend of mine volunteered to be 'live bait' for Joseph, allowing us to expose Joseph to someone 'safe' and predictable, firstly at a distance that he could see her, but is not compelled to react, slowly reducing the distance as he is able to handle it, while we work to change how he feels about new people in his world. We started outside in the yard, a place where Joseph feels safe, and in time, though he still responded at first sight, with barking, he was able to get closer, without reacting to her. Since it has gotten colder, we have moved our sessions inside the house, and we start over. This is a new situation and location for Joseph, being inside he knows there is no escape, so it is a bit scarier for him. The first few sessions he was quite vocal, acted all 'tough', unable to relax, settle in her presence, but with practice, he now settles fairly quickly, and is able to be across the room without 'panicking' - telling her to 'Get lost.'
He will get 'there' we have no doubt, that his world will be a much better place for him.
It is a 'process', it cannot be rushed, there will be progress, there will be set backs if we have inadvertently asked too much of him. That is how it 'works', we learn from our mistakes, back up, start over, if need be, and keep on trying to help him understand that new people are not a threat to him.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Charliethree said:


> We have been working with Joseph to help him overcome his fear of strangers. A friend of mine volunteered to be 'live bait' for Joseph, allowing us to expose Joseph to someone 'safe' and predictable, firstly at a distance that he could see her, but is not compelled to react, slowly reducing the distance as he is able to handle it, while we work to change how he feels about new people in his world. We started outside in the yard, a place where Joseph feels safe, and in time, though he still responded at first sight, with barking, he was able to get closer, without reacting to her. Since it has gotten colder, we have moved our sessions inside the house, and we start over. This is a new situation and location for Joseph, being inside he knows there is no escape, so it is a bit scarier for him. The first few sessions he was quite vocal, acted all 'tough', unable to relax, settle in her presence, but with practice, he now settles fairly quickly, and is able to be across the room without 'panicking' - telling her to 'Get lost.'
> He will get 'there' we have no doubt, that his world will be a much better place for him.
> It is a 'process', it cannot be rushed, there will be progress, there will be set backs if we have inadvertently asked too much of him. That is how it 'works', we learn from our mistakes, back up, start over, if need be, and keep on trying to help him understand that new people are not a threat to him.



Joseph is very lucky you were his foster failure


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

We are incredibly lucky to have him, both of them, really! Though it may seem that these journeys we travel with them are very 'labor intensive', a lot of 'work', there is nothing that I would change, nothing I regret doing for them, or wouldn't do again, if need be. To help them heal, to see them find safety, joy, comfort and contentment in their lives is more than I could ask for.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

He was a grand old boy, Buddy, the 'leader' of our pack, we lost him suddenly, the other day, sending us all reeling, in a state of heartbreak and shock. Buddy, a rescued border collie, held his position at the head of the pack with dignity, honor and majesty. They knew, each foster dog, each one who would have their forever home with us, 'knew' without question, this quiet gentleman was the one to listen to. Buddy never fought, he didn't need to, confident, sure of his 'place', all it took was a 'look', perhaps an occasional growl, no need for scuffles, no need for any of that, his presence was enough to keep the peace. We affectionately called him the 'fun police', he was the 'monitor', the one who would step in, quietly, calmly, split up the rowdy ones, settle everyone down, letting them know that was 'enough' and they understood. 

Everything has changed for our pack of now, four. Without a doubt, they sense our feelings of loss, but I have no doubt, they are feeling the loss, feeling lost, themselves.


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## ZeppGold (Aug 9, 2009)

So sorry to hear of the loss of Buddy. He was beautiful.


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

Charliethree said:


> He was a grand old boy, Buddy, the 'leader' of our pack, we lost him suddenly, the other day, sending us all reeling, in a state of heartbreak and shock. Buddy, a rescued border collie, held his position at the head of the pack with dignity, honor and majesty. They knew, each foster dog, each one who would have their forever home with us, 'knew' without question, this quiet gentleman was the one to listen to. Buddy never fought, he didn't need to, confident, sure of his 'place', all it took was a 'look', perhaps an occasional growl, no need for scuffles, no need for any of that, his presence was enough to keep the peace. We affectionately called him the 'fun police', he was the 'monitor', the one who would step in, quietly, calmly, split up the rowdy ones, settle everyone down, letting them know that was 'enough' and they understood.
> 
> Everything has changed for our pack of now, four. Without a doubt, they sense our feelings of loss, but I have no doubt, they are feeling the loss, feeling lost, themselves.


I am so sorry for your loss of Buddy, and sending soft hugs for your pack as they work through their grief as well.


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

My sympathies on the loss of your precious Buddy. It's hard when someone departs and leaves a big hole. Everything shifts around. 

I wanted to share with you a procedure I happened upon accidentally with Bella. I use it to introduce her to all visitors to the house. I have visitors sit on the couch and supply them with tasty treats. The dogs always know that someone has arrived. I let only Bella into the living room to be introduced. I say "say hello." The first time she was shy but she now believes that all new people will give her treats. ? She goes to the person and wiggles and whimpers (her hello) for a couple minutes. Then I let Tucker out. He brings so much energy and excitement that it works better for Bella to go first. It has worked very well. So well that I now do not think twice about having company over. Yay Bella!


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

I'm so sorry for your loss of Buddy, I know he is missed by all of you. 

Run free Buddy


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Thank you. Buddy was a huge presence in our lives. He wasn't a big dog, but he had a huge heart.
Outwest: Thank you for sharing your success with Bella, good to know she is doing so well. Bless your heart for sticking with her, I know you got off to a rough start. 

We had a pretty good day. Lots of walks, one-on-one time with each of the 'crew', the air cool, the wind crisp with a bit of iciness, helped to ease the ache a bit.

Joseph went for a run in the country with his 'dad', found some sunshine and some snow. The perfect way to start, the healing of the heart.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

So sorry for your loss of Buddy.


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## Harleysmum (Aug 19, 2014)

Sorry for the loss of Buddy. Sounds like he was a very special dog. It will take everyone time to adjust to his loss.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Buddy*



Charliethree said:


> He was a grand old boy, Buddy, the 'leader' of our pack, we lost him suddenly, the other day, sending us all reeling, in a state of heartbreak and shock. Buddy, a rescued border collie, held his position at the head of the pack with dignity, honor and majesty. They knew, each foster dog, each one who would have their forever home with us, 'knew' without question, this quiet gentleman was the one to listen to. Buddy never fought, he didn't need to, confident, sure of his 'place', all it took was a 'look', perhaps an occasional growl, no need for scuffles, no need for any of that, his presence was enough to keep the peace. We affectionately called him the 'fun police', he was the 'monitor', the one who would step in, quietly, calmly, split up the rowdy ones, settle everyone down, letting them know that was 'enough' and they understood.
> 
> Everything has changed for our pack of now, four. Without a doubt, they sense our feelings of loss, but I have no doubt, they are feeling the loss, feeling lost, themselves.


I am so very sorry about sweet Buddy!! I know Joseph and the rest of your pack will try to ease the pain for you, as you try to ease theirs!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

It has been a quiet week, it will truly take some time, though it does seem like Milo will be the one to be the 'peace keeper'. The one who will watch over all, he learned well, all that Buddy had to teach. Confident, calm, even tempered, honest and fair, I believe he can be, and is the 'strong one' for us all.

Joseph, the 'new' Joseph, quite the delightful surprise for us all, we hung on to believing in him, that 'he' was in there somewhere, it just took some time to find 'him', the real Joseph.
He brought me his ball the other night, properly munched and wet, dropped on my lap, something he has never done before, (he loves to tease with 'his' ball, 'dare' you to try to take it away. He sat waiting expectantly, eager, for me to throw it for him. I tossed it for him a few times, each time he returned, dropping it on my lap, just a little wetter than the time before, but accompanied by the undeniable request for 'more'.
There still are those 'moments', when he is overexcited and gets a bit rowdy, pushy and redirects, but those times are fewer, farther between, and he settles, so much more quickly than he has ever done before.

Hang onto hope, 'believe', even when the times get rough, inside those complicated, 'difficult' dogs is an amazing, a wonderful, very special dog.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Charliethree said:


> It has been a quiet week, it will truly take some time, though it does seem like Milo will be the one to be the 'peace keeper'. The one who will watch over all, he learned well, all that Buddy had to teach. Confident, calm, even tempered, honest and fair, I believe he can be, and is the 'strong one' for us all.
> 
> Joseph, the 'new' Joseph, quite the delightful surprise for us all, we hung on to believing in him, that 'he' was in there somewhere, it just took some time to find 'him', the real Joseph.
> He brought me his ball the other night, properly munched and wet, dropped on my lap, something he has never done before, (he loves to tease with 'his' ball, 'dare' you to try to take it away. He sat waiting expectantly, eager, for me to throw it for him. I tossed it for him a few times, each time he returned, dropping it on my lap, just a little wetter than the time before, but accompanied by the undeniable request for 'more'.
> ...



Love hearing about Joseph and the ball. He has such trust in you


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

He was not the dog I 'wanted' four years ago, he was 'wild', difficult to understand, hard to cope with, upset our calm and predictable lives, had some 'baggage', needed a LOT from both of us, more than we could have imagined at the time, but he has proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that beyond every 'cloud' there is a silver lining. 

The transformation in Joseph has been stunning, 'magical', there are no words to explain how wonderful it is to see him like this - for his sake. Free of the anxiety and stress that ruled his life, unrelenting, free to be the dog he can be. Free to steal the cookies from the tin, in a moment of distraction of those who were supposed to keep an eye on him. Free to play ball, and not feel compelled to guard it, free to play with the other dogs, and not incite a fight, free to live life as every dog should live it- happy, content, safe as he should be. Free to be not 'quite' perfect, we understand that, we are not 'quite perfect' either, free to be 'who' he is and all he can be. 

THIS is why we kept a dog 'like that', why we struggled along with him, devoted so much time and effort for so long to help him, why we could not give up on him - his 'freedom'- is everything to him.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

A bit of a 'glitch' in the plan, Joseph was not doing well on the Blue Buffalo, not eager to eat it, stomach upset, we searched again for another appropriate food. We have switched him to 'Go!' it has a little higher protein level, 26%, but he still maintains the calm and self control, the 'normal' dog we have come to know. 
Over all things are going very well, they have all settled and adapted to the new 'order' of things, Milo has become the 'moderator', the calm and 'sense' when Joseph gets too excited, a 'look' or if need be, a rare 'growl', is all it takes to 'remind' Joseph to mind his manners and settle down. The 'bitey face' games with Joseph and Charlie as still such a wonder and a pleasure to watch, and indication that all is well between them. 

Have to admit - it feels mighty nice!!!!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Great update!


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Joseph*



Charliethree said:


> A bit of a 'glitch' in the plan, Joseph was not doing well on the Blue Buffalo, not eager to eat it, stomach upset, we searched again for another appropriate food. We have switched him to 'Go!' it has a little higher protein level, 26%, but he still maintains the calm and self control, the 'normal' dog we have come to know.
> Over all things are going very well, they have all settled and adapted to the new 'order' of things, Milo has become the 'moderator', the calm and 'sense' when Joseph gets too excited, a 'look' or if need be, a rare 'growl', is all it takes to 'remind' Joseph to mind his manners and settle down. The 'bitey face' games with Joseph and Charlie as still such a wonder and a pleasure to watch, and indication that all is well between them.
> 
> Have to admit - it feels mighty nice!!!!


I just love hearing about Joseph! I know what you mean about loving to watch the bitey face games-gives me such a warm and loving feeling!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

'When you wish upon a star....'


All the best this Holiday Season and throughout the New Year, too!

Joseph


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Joseph*

Just Love the Christmas picture of Joseph!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Though I am tempted to say 'set back', it is not really, my perspective is that it is all part of the 'learning curve'. After about a month or so on the new 'Go' dog food, we began noticing 'little' things, occasional retching, vomiting up his meal, licking- periods of incessant licking of his legs and feet, the occasional head shaking episodes, intense ear scratching as if he had a itch that just wouldn't go away, but no infection present, reluctance to eat his meals. Anxiety levels slowly increasing, almost unnoticeably, until you take the time to re-evaluate. Tension, stiffness in the way he moves, carries himself - has slowly crept in. 
Diet does impact behavior, and as much as I want to say that lowering the protein levels in Joseph's diet 'improved' his behavior, his 'outlook', and it did, after two months on the new diet, we understand this was not the 'answer' we have been seeking, and will be returning Joseph to the Ranchlands diet. It could be a reaction to something in the food, a new protein source (chicken, this time) it could be that 'low protein', long term, could cause an increase in stress levels, simply because he is not getting enough, over all, of what his body needs from the food.

'Trial and error' - sometimes we are blessed with success, sometimes we just need to back up, try again, and listen to what they are telling us. Ensure you are paying attention, not just 'assuming' that if it works 'today', it will continue to 'work' long term. The changes can be subtle, easily missed, they can be 'in your face,' and undeniable, regardless, they are 'communicating' - we need to listen, and make changes, try again, if need be.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks for the update on Joseph. It's always a process on trying to find the magic combination, isn't it?


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

It truly is, but we owe it to them to keep trying, no matter how long it takes. More often than not it is a 'combination of possibilities', that it takes to help them, not just one or the other, often elusive, hard to find the 'right' ones, but no matter what we love them dearly, they are a huge and wonderful part of our lives.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*So true*



Charliethree said:


> It truly is, but we owe it to them to keep trying, no matter how long it takes. More often than not it is a 'combination of possibilities', that it takes to help them, not just one or the other, often elusive, hard to find the 'right' ones, but no matter what we love them dearly, they are a huge and wonderful part of our lives.


What you said is SO TRUE!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Joseph has been back on the Ranchlands for just over a week, he is no longer getting sick, the chewing has disappeared and he is happier, more settled over all. We have decided to take a different approach to working with him, helping him with his anxiety issues. Joseph is a brilliant dog with amazing 'problem solving' skills, so we have decided that perhaps spending more time using his mind may be a good way to help him. I have begun clicker training with Joseph, helping him learn that it is okay to choose to 'offer' behaviors, and there is no getting it 'wrong'. It didn't take him long to figure out how it works, and it has been a lot of fun, watching him decide what to do next, at this point I am not looking for specific behavior, just getting him comfortable with 'choosing' for himself. We have been playing the game '101 things to do with a box' it is amazing and fun to see what he comes up with, one paw in the box, now two, front paws out, back paws in, flip it over, stand on it, the list goes on. Best of all, is the 'smile' that it puts on his face (mine too), this is a dog that is truly having fun (and tiring himself out) simply using his brain.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Charliethree said:


> Joseph has been back on the Ranchlands for just over a week, he is no longer getting sick, the chewing has disappeared and he is happier, more settled over all. We have decided to take a different approach to working with him, helping him with his anxiety issues. Joseph is a brilliant dog with amazing 'problem solving' skills, so we have decided that perhaps spending more time using his mind may be a good way to help him. I have begun clicker training with Joseph, helping him learn that it is okay to choose to 'offer' behaviors, and there is no getting it 'wrong'. It didn't take him long to figure out how it works, and it has been a lot of fun, watching him decide what to do next, at this point I am not looking for specific behavior, just getting him comfortable with 'choosing' for himself. We have been playing the game '101 things to do with a box' it is amazing and fun to see what he comes up with, one paw in the box, now two, front paws out, back paws in, flip it over, stand on it, the list goes on. Best of all, is the 'smile' that it puts on his face (mine too), this is a dog that is truly having fun (and tiring himself out) simply using his brain.


Yeah Joseph!!! He is such a lucky boy to have somebody love him as much as you do!

I'm interested in knowing more about this. My Charlie responds brilliantly to clicker training and this would be a great exercise. Any reference materials you can point me towards?


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

jennretz said:


> Yeah Joseph!!! He is such a lucky boy to have somebody love him as much as you do!
> 
> I'm interested in knowing more about this. My Charlie responds brilliantly to clicker training and this would be a great exercise. Any reference materials you can point me towards?


 
This website by Karen Pryor is a good place to start. 
Karen Pryor Clicker Training | The Leader in Positive Reinforcement Training

The wonderful thing about this is that you can reinforce ( mark and reward) for offering 'self calming' behaviors -doing 'nothing', as well ie: sits, downs, choosing to take a break. 
Joseph finds this activity quite exciting, so can easily go 'over the top' and start offering uwanted behaviors like jumping up, or pawing, getting 'rough' when taking the treats, when/if that happens, I just ignore it, and wait for him to settle down (sit or lay down) -then mark and reward for that, and slowly increase the duration of that behavior -mark and reward while holding the sit or down. It works very well.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Clicker*

We took Clicker Training with our adopted girl, Smooch, when she was about 18 mos. Found it beneficial!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

It has been a month, and what have we done? Joseph has taken to the clicker training, with such enthusiasm, and joy, it is amazing and amusing to watch him 'work'. Some of our sessions are simply spent marking and rewarding offered behaviors, others we work on teaching specific behaviors. Mark and rewarding 'touch', a 'go to' behavior that serves the purpose of refocusing his attention, when and if, the need should arise. Fun stuff like learning to 'spin', then creating a sequence of sit with eye contact, touch his nose to the palm of my hand, 'spin', sit, and 'shake a paw' - Thank you! oh so much! And a little more 'serious' stuff, like choosing to go to a mat, laying down and learning to calm, and truly 'settle' himself, a monumental task for a dog who has spent a good part of his life anxious and 'on edge'.

I had the four dogs out in the yard today, for a bit of group play in the unseasonably warm weather, the progress that he has made, though subtle, is apparent, a calmer, 'thinking' dog, who is making 'good' choices, responding to cues, and having a great time without becoming over excited, anxious or out of control. Giving him the opportunity to 'think' for himself, use his brilliant mind, encouraging and rewarding for making good choices, has helped him to be more settled, feel more 'in control', and slowly emerging is a wonderful 'marshmallow' dog. 

The more I get to 'know' the 'who' that lies within, the more intriguing he is, he keeps me trying and wondering what we will accomplish next - the sky is the limit!!!


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## Harleysmum (Aug 19, 2014)

Loving the updates. Thank you for sharing Joseph's journey.


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## Panama Rob (Nov 26, 2015)

Charliethree said:


> adopt your foster dog if it meant that you had to give up fostering??


If I were fostering and I was attached to my foster dog then I would adopt her/him and provide for him/her for all his/her years.


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Charliethree said:


> It has been a month, and what have we done? Joseph has taken to the clicker training, with such enthusiasm, and joy, it is amazing and amusing to watch him 'work'. Some of our sessions are simply spent marking and rewarding offered behaviors, others we work on teaching specific behaviors. Mark and rewarding 'touch', a 'go to' behavior that serves the purpose of refocusing his attention, when and if, the need should arise. Fun stuff like learning to 'spin', then creating a sequence of sit with eye contact, touch his nose to the palm of my hand, 'spin', sit, and 'shake a paw' - Thank you! oh so much! And a little more 'serious' stuff, like choosing to go to a mat, laying down and learning to calm, and truly 'settle' himself, a monumental task for a dog who has spent a good part of his life anxious and 'on edge'.
> 
> I had the four dogs out in the yard today, for a bit of group play in the unseasonably warm weather, the progress that he has made, though subtle, is apparent, a calmer, 'thinking' dog, who is making 'good' choices, responding to cues, and having a great time without becoming over excited, anxious or out of control. Giving him the opportunity to 'think' for himself, use his brilliant mind, encouraging and rewarding for making good choices, has helped him to be more settled, feel more 'in control', and slowly emerging is a wonderful 'marshmallow' dog.
> 
> The more I get to 'know' the 'who' that lies within, the more intriguing he is, he keeps me trying and wondering what we will accomplish next - the sky is the limit!!!


A logistics question...where are your other dogs when you are working with J?


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

So happy to see the latest update on Joseph  I have a soft spot for him and Charlie...


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

OutWest said:


> A logistics question...where are your other dogs when you are working with J?


 
Usually behind baby gates, they have access to the bedroom if they want to use it, when we are outside, they are confined to the house. They have come to learn to be patient, that they will each get their turn when I say their name. They will sometimes watch but generally they just relax/nap until it is their turn.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Joseph*



Charliethree said:


> It has been a month, and what have we done? Joseph has taken to the clicker training, with such enthusiasm, and joy, it is amazing and amusing to watch him 'work'. Some of our sessions are simply spent marking and rewarding offered behaviors, others we work on teaching specific behaviors. Mark and rewarding 'touch', a 'go to' behavior that serves the purpose of refocusing his attention, when and if, the need should arise. Fun stuff like learning to 'spin', then creating a sequence of sit with eye contact, touch his nose to the palm of my hand, 'spin', sit, and 'shake a paw' - Thank you! oh so much! And a little more 'serious' stuff, like choosing to go to a mat, laying down and learning to calm, and truly 'settle' himself, a monumental task for a dog who has spent a good part of his life anxious and 'on edge'.
> 
> I had the four dogs out in the yard today, for a bit of group play in the unseasonably warm weather, the progress that he has made, though subtle, is apparent, a calmer, 'thinking' dog, who is making 'good' choices, responding to cues, and having a great time without becoming over excited, anxious or out of control. Giving him the opportunity to 'think' for himself, use his brilliant mind, encouraging and rewarding for making good choices, has helped him to be more settled, feel more 'in control', and slowly emerging is a wonderful 'marshmallow' dog.
> 
> The more I get to 'know' the 'who' that lies within, the more intriguing he is, he keeps me trying and wondering what we will accomplish next - the sky is the limit!!!


I am so happy to read this about Joseph. You are a wonderful person. Like Jenn said: I have a soft spot for him, too!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I think we have stumbled onto a bit of 'magic' with Joseph, he is doing wonderfully well. We have tried a number of different ways to help him to succeed, some were helpful, some not so much, to overcome his anxieties which, though happening less often, resulted in some inappropriate behavior. Keeping in mind that from his perspective his behavior was totally 'appropriate', he was doing what he felt compelled to do in that situation, that circumstance, I have always been mindful of that. We have always worked with Joseph through positive reinforcement, and it has served him very well, the trust he has built, his willingness to keep on trying, the confidence has gained, learning to choose and choosing 'appropriate' instead of 'not appropriate' more often than not - he is now, except for the rare occasion, - a 'thinking' dog.

We continue to work on patience, focus and self control, and the results have been pretty amazing, 'mind blowing' on occasion, a 'down' on the pause box, rock steady he waited his turn, as the others go through their runs on the agility jumps, so very hard for him to do. Focusing on following direction when it was his turn, slowing himself down when asked to, pleased as punch, flying over the jumps and returning to square one.

He has come a long, long ways, he has worked hard, tried hard, and accomplished so much along the way. Back 'then' I couldn't have imagined we would be where we are now, he was such a 'train wreck', so confused, terrified and out of control, with nothing much to hang onto but 'hope', and the resolve to take it one day at a time. I am thankful for his joyful spirit, his courage, his love, his trust, thankful that he is 'who he is', thankful that he is such a wonderful part of our lives.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Joseph*



Charliethree said:


> I think we have stumbled onto a bit of 'magic' with Joseph, he is doing wonderfully well. We have tried a number of different ways to help him to succeed, some were helpful, some not so much, to overcome his anxieties which, though happening less often, resulted in some inappropriate behavior. Keeping in mind that from his perspective his behavior was totally 'appropriate', he was doing what he felt compelled to do in that situation, that circumstance, I have always been mindful of that. We have always worked with Joseph through positive reinforcement, and it has served him very well, the trust he has built, his willingness to keep on trying, the confidence has gained, learning to choose and choosing 'appropriate' instead of 'not appropriate' more often than not - he is now, except for the rare occasion, - a 'thinking' dog.
> 
> We continue to work on patience, focus and self control, and the results have been pretty amazing, 'mind blowing' on occasion, a 'down' on the pause box, rock steady he waited his turn, as the others go through their runs on the agility jumps, so very hard for him to do. Focusing on following direction when it was his turn, slowing himself down when asked to, pleased as punch, flying over the jumps and returning to square one.
> 
> He has come a long, long ways, he has worked hard, tried hard, and accomplished so much along the way. Back 'then' I couldn't have imagined we would be where we are now, he was such a 'train wreck', so confused, terrified and out of control, with nothing much to hang onto but 'hope', and the resolve to take it one day at a time. I am thankful for his joyful spirit, his courage, his love, his trust, thankful that he is 'who he is', thankful that he is such a wonderful part of our lives.


I know that you and Joseph, have turned his life around! I am sure he LOVES you for that!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Way to go Joseph and keep up the good work!

I've been doing an online Karen Pryor foundations course all clicker based. Duke and Charlie love the clicker and it's amazing what I'm able to do with them.  It's been amazing.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Good for you! It is pretty amazing what they can do, and how quickly they can learn, when given the opportunity, the 'freedom', to think and discover what 'works' for them and when they need to 'try again'. It has been a huge confidence builder for both Joseph and Charlie, my other two really enjoy it too, and it is fun for all of us.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Something we all need to keep in mind, especially when the journey we are travelling gets a bit rough. It is the 'journey' that matters, know in your heart that they are struggling too. 

Joseph is doing very well, calmer, more patient, a 'thinking' dog, truly excited to play the 'games' that we play, no mistaking the 'smile' on his face, the shine in his eyes, the anticipation - 'I got that one! What is next?' Engaging his mind, providing opportunities to learn and grow, has opened the door to learning so much more about 'who' he is and all that he can do!!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Good job Joseph! I can just picture you full of pride for what you just did 


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

It is not really about what I have 'done' for him, though I am truly honored to be travelling this journey with him, but seeing what was 'just a dream' not so long ago, become reality for him is more heartwarming than words can express. Not kidding myself, we are not 'there' yet, things are not 'perfect' in his world just yet, but I am so happy for him and so proud of him, he has come such a very long ways.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Joseph is one smart boy, finding the one thing that works with a dog is the key to it all. 
Great reading how much he enjoys training and how much fun he's having.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I love the updates too!


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Joseph*



Charliethree said:


> Something we all need to keep in mind, especially when the journey we are travelling gets a bit rough. It is the 'journey' that matters, know in your heart that they are struggling too.
> 
> Joseph is doing very well, calmer, more patient, a 'thinking' dog, truly excited to play the 'games' that we play, no mistaking the 'smile' on his face, the shine in his eyes, the anticipation - 'I got that one! What is next?' Engaging his mind, providing opportunities to learn and grow, has opened the door to learning so much more about 'who' he is and all that he can do!!


I just love the update on Joseph. He surely has come a long way!
Love what you said about the journey. Nothing in my life has given me more fulfillment, that watching a rescue dog learn to love life and become a member of our family!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

It has been a pretty amazing journey, not only in helping make changes for Joseph, but also understanding that changes were necessary from within myself. Coming to grips with the realization that we had a dog with a 'life threatening' condition that was depending on us to step up to the challenge of helping him heal, and not knowing just how to go about doing that, was a pretty daunting thing. But moving away from 'fixing' him, (we 'fix' cars, not lives) -what 'behaviors' he should learn, what we wanted/needed to teach him to do and applying the 'technical' stuff, allowed us to move 'outside the box' and consider and explore other ways to help him heal and make his life easier for him. This article sums it up beautifully, Thank you Jenn, for sharing it with me. https://muttabouttown.com/2016/05/09/fearful-dogs-are-not-broken/


He chose us, we had a lot to learn, I think he understood that - he was so patient with us. He is a brilliant dog, he is also such a fun dog, surprising us with his silliness, his antics, and his persistence in letting us know exactly what he wants, and over time, what he needs. He means the world to us, we are proud of him, and have come to learn that there is nothing quite like the 'love of a lab', we love him to pieces, would trade him for anything.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Charliethree said:


> It has been a pretty amazing journey, not only in helping make changes for Joseph, but also understanding that changes were necessary from within myself. Coming to grips with the realization that we had a dog with a 'life threatening' condition that was depending on us to step up to the challenge of helping him heal, and not knowing just how to go about doing that, was a pretty daunting thing. But moving away from 'fixing' him, (we 'fix' cars, not lives) -what 'behaviors' he should learn, what we wanted/needed to teach him to do and applying the 'technical' stuff, allowed us to move 'outside the box' and consider and explore other ways to help him heal and make his life easier for him. This article sums it up beautifully, Thank you Jenn, for sharing it with me. https://muttabouttown.com/2016/05/09/fearful-dogs-are-not-broken/
> 
> 
> He chose us, we had a lot to learn, I think he understood that - he was so patient with us. He is a brilliant dog, he is also such a fun dog, surprising us with his silliness, his antics, and his persistence in letting us know exactly what he wants, and over time, what he needs. He means the world to us, we are proud of him, and have come to learn that there is nothing quite like the 'love of a lab', we love him to pieces, would trade him for anything.




The article just sums up what you've been saying about the journey.  when we stop thinking about "fixing", it opens up new avenues. We all learn from each other. I'm a better pet parent with Charlie because of the experiences you share about Joseph and Charlie. That's why I love this forum!


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

That article is really great.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> That article is really great.


It is a good article, it applies whether the dog we have has 'behavior problems' that they need help with, or is simply not 'understanding' what we are trying to teach them. We put a lot of pressure on our dogs to learn what we want them to know, in all fairness, we owe it to them to meet them 'halfway' and make it easier for them to learn.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Don't let his 'serious' look fool you, behind it lies a seriously 'naughty dog' just itching to bust out!!!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I forget how old Joseph is...he's very distinguished


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Best guess is he is now 6 years old, he was about a year old when we rescued him, in 2011.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Love this article written by Jennifer Arnold: 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/through-dog-s-eyes/201605/judging-rover-whos-good-dog

Understanding this was a turning point for working with, living with Joseph, all my dogs really.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks for sharing that article. It was really valid....especially the yum and ick. Am wondering if I can work that with Charlie to get him to stop liking poo....although he already likes it! hmmmm


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Love this*

I love the saying you have under Joseph's picture-how true!!

*'Don't pity the rescue dog. Adopt one. And be proud to have their greatness by your side.' *


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

It might be pretty hard to convince Charlie that poop is yucky stuff. I really don't understand why it is such a hard behavior to get rid of, I have two that do it. 

They are truly - GREAT dogs, wonderful best friends!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Staying mindful of how we respond to, and work to resolve our dog's 'inappropriate' behavior (from our perspective) can go a long ways to helping them feel better, safer, more confident and 'in control'.



https://positively.com/contributors/what-should-i-do-when-my-dog-reacts/


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

A celebration post in honor of a most amazing dog! 

Joseph has come a long ways in working past his fear of strangers, though he is not 'there' yet, he has come a long ways.

We had company come by, Joseph was confined, until we were all settled and sitting down. Hubby load himself with treats, and brought Joseph out on leash. Joseph let out a 'roar' on sight of the 'stranger' across the living room, his eyes grew large, his tail tucked down, someone new in his house, scary for him. Joseph began to eat the treats offered him, managed to calm himself a bit, sat down, looked at the stranger, looked back at his 'dad' - yes! more yummy treats. He sat quietly looking at the visitor, then back to his dad, and received his reward - he was being such a good boy! After a minute or so, hubby encouraged Joseph to move out of sight of the visitor, then brought him back, again he roared, but quickly settled into a sit, and quieted down, to 'watch' the visit or from across the room. After repeating a few times, Joseph was able to look at the visitor, and remain quiet, looking at him, checking with his 'dad', and eating the treats! 

Joseph was then brought into the living room, much closer to the visitor there, where his dad settled into his chair. Joseph sat quietly at his side watching, no barking at all, and checking in with his dad, frequently rewarding him. I gave Joseph his mat to lay on, his 'safe place', he quickly settled in, lay calmly on his mat, just watching. The tension slowly released from his body, his eyes getting softer, his ears relaxed, he shifted from laying in 'sphinx' position to laying on his side, a sign that he was truly feeling easier about the situation, his dad randomly rewarding him. Occasionally he would sit up, put a paw up on the chair, asking for a few more treats. His dad would oblige, and he would settle on the mat again.

This is so HUGE for him, we are so proud of him!! It is not something we get to practice much at all. It is hard to find good 'live bait' to enable us to work with him, someone who will not panic when he 'roars', someone who will do exactly as they have been asked, try to relax and simply ignore him.

It is a reminder that no matter how long the journey is, or how tiny those steps might be, finding ways to help them, keep them feeling safe, it is a journey so worth travelling.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Love this update!


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Joseph*



Charliethree said:


> A celebration post in honor of a most amazing dog!
> 
> Joseph has come a long ways in working past his fear of strangers, though he is not 'there' yet, he has come a long ways.
> 
> ...


So proud for you and Joseph!!


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Great update, way to go Joseph!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

You have no idea how good this feels. To see the progress, from 'This is never going to happen, in a million years, he was so terrified of strangers.' to 'Perhaps there is a chance.' to 'YES!! He can do this!!!' 

Truly amazing!!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Things are going well with Joseph, as we continue on our journey, working towards making life 'easier' for him, and it has gotten so much 'easier' so much more fun for him along the way. People watching, introductions to 'strangers' in our home, both difficult and a huge step for him, and 'dog watching' from a distance, something he has become an 'expert' at! 

Came across this article, well worth the read, explaining the 'basics' of working with a 'reactive' dog.

On-Leash Reactivity and Aggression


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

The progress you are making with Joseph is remarkable!


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## Pilgrim123 (Jul 26, 2014)

So glad that Joseph is doing so well. I think what you are doing to help him is wonderful and it is great to hear of the progress he has made.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Joseph, in his over abundant exuberance for life, put himself on the 'injured' list for a little while. Have no idea what he did, but it took the 'wind out of his sails' for a bit, couldn't chase his ball, jump up on the bed, his favorite place to sleep, or play with his best buddy at all - a sad, sad puppy for sure - life was pretty boring. Happy to say he is on the mend, now able to jump up on the bed, and have a good sleep, and play ball - slowly as we carefully get him back up to 'full speed'. It was kind of touching that he, (since I play 'second fiddle' to 'Dad' when all is well), came looking to 'Mom' for comfort and pets, sympathy? when he was 'under the weather' - he can be such a 'mush'! but I am very happy that he is well on his way back to getting back to life as it should be.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Poor Joseph...,glad he is on the mend 


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## Wolfeye (Sep 15, 2015)

My first dog was a black dog, a Labrador cross of some kind. I'm quite late to this thread so it's all news to me, but when I was scrolling down and first saw that face - I melted. As I read further I learned more about this wonderful dog and his journey, I felt I had to say something...

Thank you, for being his friend. In all the things we do with dogs, I think that's the one thing they desire most. A friend. This ol' world is rough when you're on your own.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Thank you for reading, you are absolutely right, they do need a friend (or two). We have had a number of dogs over the years, but Joseph is our first lab and he has taken us on quite the amazing journey. 
Love him to bits, 'tough guy' on the outside, all 'heart' on the inside.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Joseph*



Charliethree said:


> A celebration post in honor of a most amazing dog!
> 
> Joseph has come a long ways in working past his fear of strangers, though he is not 'there' yet, he has come a long ways.
> 
> ...


What a huge step for Joseph and he has the best parents!! Wish I lived close to you, I would volunteer to be live bait. Hope Joseph is on the mend from hurting himself!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Thank you. It appears he has made full recovery. He is back 'on duty', making sure the squirrels stay out the yard, (or at the very least out of reach, sassing him from the safety of the spruce tree), and his frequent patrols along the back fence are successfully completed, and 'his' spot on the bed doesn't remain empty for 'too long'. 

Sadly I am once again relegated to #2, 'favorite people' position, (though I will always be there when he 'needs' me, is feeling low or has 'wounded his 'pride') have tried to ply him with the tastiest of treats, teach him some fun tricks, throwing his ball for him (when he 'allows' me to touch it) but 'Dad' wins out as #1 'fun guy' in his books. (There are some thing 'money' just can't buy!)


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

'Just Joe!' enjoying his weekly walk on the 'wild side', sometimes he has a buddy, today it was just Dad. He loves his walks in the country, where he can run, wade in the creeks, and hunt the squirrels high in the trees. He can leave his 'troubles' behind and be free to 'just be'.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Looks like he had fun 


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Joseph is eagerly anticipating his annual camping trip with his Dad - going to be a chilly one he thinks, (or we are in for a cold winter), he has been busy growing his 'woolly' pants, he feels like one of those softest, plushest toys you can find in the toy store. He missed out last year, got himself into a bit of 'trouble', his Dad is going to make sure that it doesn't happen again. He loves his Dad, is never far from his side when he is home, follows him closely, whines when he is out of sight, no doubt they are going to have a wonderful time, just the 'boys' doing what they both enjoy so much.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Haven't figured out what breed he may be mixed with (or even if he is a mix) but his 'woollies' are super thick and run down both sides, with a very smooth streak down the middle of his back.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

'They are not _giving _you a hard time, they are _having_ a hard time.'

I guess that camping wasn't 'meant to be' for Joseph, turns out it is terrifying for him. After some delays, they finally got the campground, and Joseph wouldn't get out of the car, it took some convincing, encouraging, but when he finally did, he turned around and jumped back in. Hubby managed to get him to take a short walk, but all he wanted to do was to go back and get in the car. They spent a restless night, and hoping he would calm down, and feel better, calmer, about it in the morning, that didn't happen, that way, it was just too much for the poor guy. Whether it was just all too new, too different for him, or the location stirred memories of what happened last year, the altercation and injury, or of being abandoned, and on his own, before he came to us - we will never know. His reaction was was truly unexpected, he had been out to the country many times before, had walks in the same area and thoroughly enjoyed those trips, they had even practiced 'camping' in the trailer at home. One of those 'mysteries' that confound us, we may never understand why, doesn't change anything, we love him for who he is, respect that there are some things he may not be able to do, and that is okay. We will continue to give him those walks in the country, the best life, we can provide for him - he deserves that much, we made that promise to him, and we will keep it.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

So sorry that Joseph had a hard time. Do you think the memories are associated with that location or with the activity? The reason I ask is, if Joseph previously liked camping with his dad, do you think it might work at a new location? Or, is he anxious with new locations as well?


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Last year was Joseph's first 'camping' trip, my hubby goes annually in the fall, and up until last year, he was taking the two senior dogs, (enough to manage by himself) so his 'intro' to camping was a pretty traumatic experience for him. It could be the location or the 'situation' itself (multiple triggers), that triggered his panic, hubby is going to take him back to the campground, at some point, drive or walk through, and see if his reaction is the same. Would be nice to be able to 'turn back the clock' and have a chance to assess his reaction to the location/situation prior to his 'accident', but that wasn't meant to be. 

They have been home for a couple of days, so he has had a chance to just relax and unwind, so hubby is going to take him out to the country (different location) and see how he handles it.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Their walk in the country turned out to be a huge success!! When they got there Joseph couldn't wait to get out of the car, quite happy to get going, go for a run and came home a 'different' dog - able to relax, and settle down for a good nap.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

I'm really sorry that Joseph's camping trip with your husband didn't work out but VERY glad the walk in the country went wonderful. Poor baby. There must have been something at the campground that he just did not like. Whether it sparked memories of his life before his forever family or was sparked by the presence of someone or something he did not want to be around I don't think will ever be known to you. The important thing, as always, is that Joseph was with his "dad", knew he was safe and loved and was able to return home safe and still very much loved. I think that a lot of times when these special dogs do not meet expectations set for them by owners who just don't get it that they then find the love for them diminished and they are labeled defective. Sigh. Joseph has always got a safe and loving home no matter what. He has learned that because of you. You give him such a great gift with your unwavering acceptance of who he is. Every dog (and person) needs someone like that in their lives. And regarding Joseph's "woolies", I also have no idea what he may be mixed with but he is certainly a good looking boy.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

The relationship, the bond, they have is pretty magical, heartwarming to witness, and strong enough to see them through the bumps that life may throw at them, as it does for all of us who love them unconditionally. 

A friend shared this quote with me, and I don't think it could be said more perfectly.

*"Shelter dogs aren't broken, they've simply experienced more life than other dogs. If they were human, we would call them wise. They would be the ones with tales to tell and stories to write, the ones dealt a bad hand who responded with courage. Don't pity a shelter dog. Adopt one. And be proud to have their greatness by your side."*


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I love that quote


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## Pilgrim123 (Jul 26, 2014)

Thank you for that quote.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

Thank you for sharing that quote. I also love it. When I consider what some of my shelter dogs have endured prior to their arrival at our home I am often in awe of them. Few humans would be able to endure what these dogs have endured and for them to not only survive it but to be able to trust again is pretty amazing. It speaks volumes about the extraordinary strength of these dogs. I love all of my dogs but my shelter dogs hold a special place in my heart.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

G-bear said:


> Thank you for sharing that quote. I also love it. When I consider what some of my shelter dogs have endured prior to their arrival at our home I am often in awe of them. Few humans would be able to endure what these dogs have endured and for them to not only survive it but to be able to trust again is pretty amazing. It speaks volumes about the extraordinary strength of these dogs. I love all of my dogs but my shelter dogs hold a special place in my heart.


So true! 

Throughout all of our 'ups and downs' with Joseph I have always admired not only his huge heart, his courage but how much 'love' he has to give, and how willing he is to give it. His gentleness, his 'softness', his eagerness to try, and his joy of life, somehow survived the tough times, a testament to the true 'heart' of a dog.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

'Just Joe' I watched in awe, so proud of the dog he has become, as he sat quietly, and patiently watching the squirrels across the street, as they ran up and down the tree, gathering food for the winter to come. His eyes would flit from one to the next, his ears perked up, his eyes widen as one would get closer, then it would go away his ears settling again. Rapt in silent attention he sat focused, never flinching, or moving muscle, or rising to bark, content to watch the squirrels across the street as they scampered about. I say his name, ask him what he is looking at, he glances at me, inviting me to come and 'just watch' with him.
Yet, if one should dare to come into 'his' backyard, climb up in 'his' tree, he is right out there, bouncing from side to side, watching as it scampers about, circling the tree, barking at it - telling it, it needs to leave. The squirrels know they are safe, sit up high, chattering back at him, teasing him, until they decide it is time to move on, get back to the business at hand, collecting for winter. Joseph then comes trotting proudly back into the house, wagging from his nose to his tail -'Did you see that? Did you see what I did!!! I scared it away, I am sure I did!!!' 
The sparkle in his eyes, the joy on his face, leaves no doubt, it can be a lot of fun - just being a dog!!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Awe Joseph! You are a sweet boy


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

When I was told Joseph was 'reactive', I had no idea what the term meant and like many dog owner's, surprised and taken aback by the 'abnormal' and 'out of control' behavior, automatically begin to fear the worst - equating 'reactivity' with 'aggression'. It can certainly appear that way and, no doubt, does to those who don't understand what is going on or why it is happening.

The following article gives a good description of what 'reactivity' is.

https://paws4udogs.wordpress.com/2013/04/15/what-is-reactivity/


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

We were also told before adopting Jack that he was "reactive". I am not sure it was the best choice of a word as the word reactive has a lot of negative connotations and, like Charliethree, I feared the worst. In Jack's case he was fearful of human contact and would begin to shake violently if approached by a stranger. There was no agression involved, just horrible fear on the part of our sweet boy. He has also been fearful of loud noises (which, given his history is not surprising). While I understand the use of reactive in terms of dogs it is not a word I like to use as it seems to have really negative connotations with the general public. Instead I describe Jack as fearful. I think that when selecting a word to describe our dogs behavior we often need to take who we are speaking with into consideration. For example, if I was speaking with Charliethree I would not hesitate to use the word reactive as I realize she has knowledge of the subject. However I would never use the word with my next door neighbor (who, frankly, HATES all dogs) as the assumption would be made by my neighbor that this was an agressive dog which runs around biting with no provocation. I think reactive is a word which can only be understood by a specific audience and, unfortunately, it is a very misunderstood word by the vast majority of people.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

For what ever reason, perhaps he 'knew' he may not get another chance, but Joseph never reacted to us, though definitely showed signs of not being treated well. When Joseph 'reacted' he would 'explode'- growling, barking,(literally 'roar') and lunging, and leap straight up into the air at the end of the leash. The first time it happened, being the one holding the leash, it was pretty 'heart-stopping' for me, my only thought at that moment, was to hang onto that leash! I can only imagine what anyone who may have seen it happen, would have thought and yes, it crossed my mind 'Who in their 'right mind' keeps a dog 'like that'? but there was no doubt in my mind we were his last chance. 
We had found ourselves in the deep end of the pool, and learning to 'swim' _*with*_ him.

This 'speaks' volumes to me.


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## Piper_the_goldenpuppy (Aug 26, 2016)

That is just so true. My friend has a leash reactive dog who responds similarly to Charlietree's Joseph. Lunging, growling, barking, and then displaces by biting her leash. She's also overprotective of her owner. She's never been mistreated--my friend has had her since 7 weeks old. My friend has so much patience, and has been really working with her, and she's getting a lot better. But she's an incredible dog--literally the smartest dog I have ever met--and is so sweet and loving. Most people wouldn't have taken the time that my friend has with her. I'm so grateful there are dog owners out there who recognize that their dog is struggling with something--not misbehaving and needing to be punished for it.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Piper_the_goldenpuppy said:


> That is just so true. My friend has a leash reactive dog who responds similarly to Charlietree's Joseph. Lunging, growling, barking, and then displaces by biting her leash. She's also overprotective of her owner. She's never been mistreated--my friend has had her since 7 weeks old. My friend has so much patience, and has been really working with her, and she's getting a lot better. But she's an incredible dog--literally the smartest dog I have ever met--and is so sweet and loving. Most people wouldn't have taken the time that my friend has with her. I'm so grateful there are dog owners out there who recognize that their dog is struggling with something--not misbehaving and needing to be punished for it.


Bless her heart for committing to helping her dog.
May I recommend for her a couple of books for her to read? 

'The Cautious Canine' and 'Feisty Fido' by Patricia B. McConnell 

Though there is no substitute for a qualified, experienced, reward based trainer in helping with a 'reactive' dog, these books can help to bring a deeper understanding to what is going on with our 'reactive' dogs and how to help them.

I wish her well with helping her dog.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

In working with Joseph, teach him the skills he needed to help him 'cope' with situations that would trigger a reaction was the first priority. Teaching 'attention' (eye contact) was the first step.

http://www.clickertraining.com/files/auto-eye-contact.pdf

The next step was to teach him what 'to do' instead.
https://positively.com/victorias-blog/choice-training-working-with-a-leash-reactive-dog/

Giving him some 'control' over the situation, built his confidence, and in time helped him to remain calmer, and increased his ability to 'think' - a dog that is over threshold cannot learn, cannot 'think', they repeat what has worked in the past to keep the 'threat' at bay and keep themselves safe.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Success!!! So proud of him! of all of them. Halloween night is always a bit (very) stressful for Joseph, lots of triggers - strange voices, activity, commotion at the front door, but he did so amazingly well. Hubby handed out the candy, my 'job' was to 'entertain' the dogs, so we played the 'Let's go!!' game, that we had practiced before. 
Access was blocked to the living room with baby gates, keeping the dogs away from the front door, hubby would give me the 'heads up' when someone was coming and I would cue the dogs "Let's go!!' and race into the other room, close the door, and quickly start handing out treats, continuing to feed, and their focus on me, they would settle down quickly. They could hear the activity at the front door, but would stay settled and focused on me, once the visitors were gone, they were allowed back into the other room where they could see the front door. (After a while the kids were coming more often, so I just stayed in the other room with the dogs, and fed the treats, while they calmly, quietly listened to the noises at the door.)
Hubby slipped up a couple of times, didn't see the kids coming, Joseph could see someone at the door, he reacted, barked loudly at them, BUT, he was able to redirect his attention and quickly followed me into the bedroom, where of course he was given lots of praise, and plenty of treats.

HUGE for Joseph, given that Charlie had joined in the chorus too, to be able to refocus so quickly, and respond by coming away from the gate and into the room, there was a time when nothing could have convinced him to take his eyes off the door, to stop barking, and move away from the 'threat'.

We don't often see the skills we teach them, practiced endlessly and highly rewarded, 'at work', (we do our best to avoid putting them in situations where they may go over threshold and cannot 'think') those 'just in case' moments when things don't go as 'planned'. To see it happen, that split second where he went from reacting (barking loudly) to being able to calm himself enough to 'think', focus and respond 'appropriately', (move away into the other room and settle) was nothing short of amazing to see.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

That is so great!


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

Congratulations to Joseph, Charlie and you! I thought I was the only one who plays the "Let's Go!" game with my dogs. It has been very effective over the years for us as well. And, given the fact that it was Halloween, it seemed only fair that the dogs should also get treats...now if I could just get my husband to stop eating all of the left-over candy...


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

It is amazing just how far he has come! When Joseph arrived he had no social skills, had no idea how to play with other dogs, he played rough, was very vocal, and quite simply didn't know when to quit. His 'big brother', Milo, taught him a lot, will never forget the day, when Joseph was taunting Milo while was chewing a bone, wouldn't let up, barking and pawing at him, just being a nuisance. Milo growled, said 'Enough', Joseph continued, Milo lunged at him and snapped, Joseph thought he was playing, dashed away and came right back. Milo stood up, let out low rumbling growl and charged at Joseph, tail tucked Joseph bolted, Milo right behind him, caught up and had Joseph on his back in a flash, a few seconds of 'telling him off', Milo walked away and Joseph sprung to his feet, and headed off the other way. A 'life lesson', taught in a flash, no injuries, no harm done, has never had to be repeated, Joseph clearly understood and has never forgotten the message that was sent to him.

Joseph and Charlie were laying on the kitchen floor playing bitey face, Milo watched from a distance, content to just chew on his bone. Their play started to escalate, Charlie's 'yips' becoming more frequent, higher pitched, Joseph was getting a little carried away, could feel the tension building, I interrupted, just 'Hey!' to settle them down a bit, Milo walked by and gave the 'cool it' look, and kept on past. They started up again, more quickly escalating, Milo purposefully walked between them, stopped for a second, let out a deep, rumbling 'rowlf', 'Enough!!!' and moved on. Joseph and Charlie looked at each other for a split second, as if to decide whether Milo was 'serious' or not, then decided it was best to call it quits. It has taken quite a while for Charlie to feel safe playing with Joseph, for Joseph to learn to play 'Charlie's way', his first encounter was 'breath taking' as Joseph ran 'over' him, knocking him to the ground, scaring him, and they have had a couple of 'scraps' over the years, so to see them enjoying playing with each other is pretty amazing!! 

Joseph's 'social skills' have come a long ways, he has learned to 'read and respond' appropriately to their signals, and he has gained the self control that prevents him from going 'over the top'. He has learned that no one wants to play with a bully, a 'brat', so he best 'behave' himself and play nice. 
I wondered early on, when things were a bit rough, and sometimes a bit crazy, if the time would come when they could play without worry of the outcome, and I am proud of them all, it certainly has!!


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

What a wonderful story and what a great teacher Milo has been! Since I, also, have a teacher (or as we call her, "Mama Gracie", in the house I find it interesting that some dogs are really the "teachers" for other dogs, in that they keep an eye on things and let the other dogs know what behavior is and is not approrpiate. I often say that I do not train my dogs. Gracie does it for me. She keeps life in our house with 3 dogs on an even keel. Early on, when Bailey was a young puppy and completely out of control, Gracie would often simply sit down on him until he calmed down. Now that Jack has discovered the joys of play Gracie's supervision is often needed. While Jack is far too large for Gracie to sit on she still let's him know when his version of play is a bit too wild. I always know when she is going to step in. The first indication is the heavy sigh. As if to say, "Darn it. There he goes again." She will get up, walk to the pile on the floor known as Jack and Bailey playing, gently nudge both with her nose to get them to make eye contact with her and then will gently lick both of their faces. Both dogs settle down immediately. Gracie only does this when their play has crossed some invisible line. Usually right before I am about to tell Jack and Bailey to settle down a bit. Gracie's way is far more effective than mine. I often wonder what makes some dogs take on the role of caretaker to other dogs. Because of Gracie I think that Jack's road into our family was less rough than it would have been without her. She set the boundaries and expectations, somehow let Jack know what they were and when he over stepped she gently reminded him. Just as Milo has done for Joseph. They really are quiet amazing in their understanding


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

All dogs speak 'dog' - no matter where they come from, or what their history is, they innately speak the same language. Unfortunately, there are those like Joseph, who didn't have the opportunity to 'practice' speaking 'dog', to learn to 'attend to cues' given by other dogs, hone their social skills, so they inept, socially 'clumsy' when it comes to interacting with other dogs. Positive dog to dog socialization is so important!!!! Driven by the overwhelming desire to play like a lab, coupled with lack of positive play experience, and his underlying fear of other dogs, his attempts to play were 'rough', and he often escalated over the fine line between physical play and feeling threatened. Milo has been instrumental in helping him past that. 

Milo's 'teacher' was a mature border collie named Buddy, even the dogs we fostered, 'knew' in an instant that Buddy was the one to listen to. He never snarked, or snapped, never got physical, his 'presence' was enough to bring even the most wayward puppy back into line. On occasion, if necessary, he would give a low growl, which he did with Joseph, just a few times, when he felt Joseph was getting out of hand, but he never needed to do more than that. When Buddy passed, just over a year ago, Milo slipped silently into the role of 'peace keeper', using all that he learned from Buddy to peacefully settle a couple of unruly boys. He is a very confident, calm dog, he is not a 'fighter', doesn't need to be- but if necessary, as a last resort, (have only seen it happen that once), he is a 'force', leaves no mistake - Don't mess with me! 

The best teacher of dog social skills is another 'well versed' dog, they are so intuitive, understand limits, the 'rules', when and how to dole out just the right amount of 'discipline', without getting 'nasty' and going over board. It is fascinating to watch, amazing to see how it works so magnificently, when we take a step back and allow our dogs to be 'dogs'.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

This is fascinating to me. I have not observed Duke reprimanding Charlie ever, even when I think Charlie might be getting too rough. He will however do a big yawn or shake and wander off. Charlie has on occasion plowed him over even after Duke had attempted to end play but Duke never reprimands him; just does the shake again and wanders off again. Is that his way of socializing Charlie or am I reading too much into it?


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

jennretz said:


> This is fascinating to me. I have not observed Duke reprimanding Charlie ever, even when I think Charlie might be getting too rough. He will however do a big yawn or shake and wander off. Charlie has on occasion plowed him over even after Duke had attempted to end play but Duke never reprimands him; just does the shake again and wanders off again. Is that his way of socializing Charlie or am I reading too much into it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Physical 'reprimands' are rarely necessary, (humans are programmed to get 'physical' or loud, when we are upset about something, some of us do so quite quickly) dogs are not, they go to great lengths to avoid getting physical, and only escalate when they sense that their 'calming signals', which often brief, the 'freeze', the look away can be as subtle as a shift in the eyes, or head turn, just a fraction, or signals they give to create space, (growl, lunge, snarp) are 'ignored' or missed by an over exuberant other dog. Dogs 'see' in split second time frames and process just as quickly, so they are able to pick up signals that we, who see in 'generalities', most often miss. 

Duke is simply telling Charlie to 'chill'. The 'shake off' is a 'stress reliever' for the one who is shaking, but it can be a 'diffuser' of a tense situation, when used in the presence of another dog, signaling the same 'message' - calm yourself down. Walking away is another 'calming' signal, 'Okay we are done'. Charlie is very good at listening to Duke, so Duke does not need to get 'louder'. The key is the ''punishment'' fits the "crime'' "You run over me, get too rough, I am not playing." that is all that Duke 'needs' to say to Charlie.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Charliethree said:


> Physical 'reprimands' are rarely necessary, (humans are programmed to get 'physical' or loud, when we are upset about something, some of us do so quite quickly) dogs are not, they go to great lengths to avoid getting physical, and only escalate when they sense that their 'calming signals', which often brief, the 'freeze', the look away can be as subtle as a shift in the eyes, or head turn, just a fraction, or signals they give to create space, (growl, lunge, snarp) are 'ignored' or missed by an over exuberant other dog. Dogs 'see' in split second time frames and process just as quickly, so they are able to pick up signals that we, who see in 'generalities', most often miss.
> 
> Duke is simply telling Charlie to 'chill'. The 'shake off' is a 'stress reliever' for the one who is shaking, but it can be a 'diffuser' of a tense situation, when used in the presence of another dog, signaling the same 'message' - calm yourself down. Walking away is another 'calming' signal, 'Okay we are done'. Charlie is very good at listening to Duke, so Duke does not need to get 'louder'. The key is the ''punishment'' fits the "crime'' "You run over me, get too rough, I am not playing." that is all that Duke 'needs' to say to Charlie.


You summarize it so well. In essence, Duke is controlling the play with Charlie; Duke usually initiates and ends it. What really strikes me, is that Charlie is actually listening to him. He does not go back a 3rd time. I don't mean to hijack your thread - you just sparked some ah-hahs for me  thanks!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

jennretz said:


> You summarize it so well. In essence, Duke is controlling the play with Charlie; Duke usually initiates and ends it. What really strikes me, is that Charlie is actually listening to him. He does not go back a 3rd time. I don't mean to hijack your thread - you just sparked some ah-hahs for me  thanks!


No problem! 'ah-hahs' are wonderful, that is how we learn!!

Why wouldn't Charlie listen to him? Most dogs have at least basic social skills, he likely learned a lot living on the street, (some just need the opportunity to 'fine tune' them) he trusts Duke, understands what he is saying, and neither one of them wants to 'fight' about it!


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

Charliethree said:


> All dogs speak 'dog' - no matter where they come from, or what their history is, they innately speak the same language. Unfortunately, there are those like Joseph, who didn't have the opportunity to 'practice' speaking 'dog', to learn to 'attend to cues' given by other dogs, hone their social skills, so they inept, socially 'clumsy' when it comes to interacting with other dogs. Positive dog to dog socialization is so important!!!! Driven by the overwhelming desire to play like a lab, coupled with lack of positive play experience, and his underlying fear of other dogs, his attempts to play were 'rough', and he often escalated over the fine line between physical play and feeling threatened. Milo has been instrumental in helping him past that.
> 
> Milo's 'teacher' was a mature border collie named Buddy, even the dogs we fostered, 'knew' in an instant that Buddy was the one to listen to. He never snarked, or snapped, never got physical, his 'presence' was enough to bring even the most wayward puppy back into line. On occasion, if necessary, he would give a low growl, which he did with Joseph, just a few times, when he felt Joseph was getting out of hand, but he never needed to do more than that. When Buddy passed, just over a year ago, Milo slipped silently into the role of 'peace keeper', using all that he learned from Buddy to peacefully settle a couple of unruly boys. He is a very confident, calm dog, he is not a 'fighter', doesn't need to be- but if necessary, as a last resort, (have only seen it happen that once), he is a 'force', leaves no mistake - Don't mess with me!
> 
> The best teacher of dog social skills is another 'well versed' dog, they are so intuitive, understand limits, the 'rules', when and how to dole out just the right amount of 'discipline', without getting 'nasty' and going over board. It is fascinating to watch, amazing to see how it works so magnificently, when we take a step back and allow our dogs to be 'dogs'.


Until I read this I never thought too much about the "family dynamics" of this. Clearly Milo learned to teach appropriate behavior from Buddy. I hadn't considered until I read your post that Gracie was also taught how to teach Jack and Bailey appropriate behavior. My golden, Goldie, was clearly the "boss" in our house. She was extremely quiet and mild mannered but she would not tolerate any agressive behavior. The only time I ever saw her react in any manner which indicated that she was anything besides a very quiet and gentle dog was one day at a dog park when she put herself between a woman and her very small dog when the woman began to beat the little dog. Goldie never growled or barked that day but there was something in her expression as she stood between that woman and her dog which showed that she was insisting that the woman would absolutely cease to hit that little dog or there would be consequences. It was a very, very powerful moment to see. Goldie, a mute animal, clearly conveyed to that woman (and to all who were watching) that the beating would stop immediately. It was such an incredibly clear moment of a dog communicating with it's body and eyes to a total stranger. It was especially powerful as it was done in total silence. So, Gracie learned how to teach and control my other dog's behavior by watching her best friend, Goldie, for all of those years. I had never really considered that until I read your post. Thank you for showing me yet another gift from my sweet golden, Goldie.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

That must have been stunning to watch Goldie do that! 
It is very impressive to see how they get along, work things out without getting confrontational and 'nasty' about it. We had six dogs for a number of years, never a true 'fight' among any of them, there were on the rare occasion growls, or snaps, 'spats', amongst the less confident ones (can't expect 'peace and tranquility' 100% of the time, we all have 'off' days). They learn a lot from each other, patience, self control, how to 'behave' appropriately , the 'right of possession' -respect each others 'personal space', to follow the 'lead' of the other dogs, and in turn, lead by 'example'.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Joseph was my 'helper' yesterday. We had spent some time with the agility equipment, he even surprised me with weaving on cue! something we haven't worked on for a while. He gets such a joyful 'boost' out of getting it right, that after a couple of run throughs he loses his focus and just wants to play, but that is okay, that is 'Joe'. We moved on to spending some time practicing NOT barking at the neighbour as she made frequent trips to and fro, from her house to her garage. I was doing some clean up - Joseph 'monitoring', making sure I got it done right, and keeping a close eye on the neighbour at the same time. The first two or three times she made the trip, he would run over to the fence barking, but would recall quickly and get rewarded for it. It didn't take him long to figure out he could save himself the 'trip', and just stay put. So he sat near me, anticipating her next trip, watching, totally relaxed, and when she would appear his ears would perk up, he would look at her, look at me, expectantly 'Okay!!' where's my treat??' A huge jackpot in celebration, lots of praise, I am totally in awe of the progress he has made! 

He had some 'down time' after that, relaxing, chewing, doggie 'stuff'.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

That is so wonderful! I have a mental image of Joseph with his ears perked up waiting expectantly for his treat. He was probably sitting there hoping your neighbor would come out even more often so he could show you how good he was being...and score another treat. You have to love 'em.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Not always easy to get a picture of the 'crew', more often than not at least one of them has something 'else' they would rather do! 

Best Friends!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Great picture


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

What a beautiful family you have! Charlie looks so darn happy in that photo and Joseph looks so sweet. I love the photo. Thanks


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

The package arrived yesterday, ordered some new toys, the dogs were far more interested in the packaging than the toys, shredded cardboard, and paper everywhere! They had a real good time! Today Joseph decided to try out the new Jollyball, and discovered how much fun it really is!

'Now if I could only figure out how to get that green ball out!'


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

The jollyball is a hit at our house too! Watch your shins! I had to make Duke's an outside toy bc he would run up to us and shake his head wildly hitting our legs 


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Thanks for the warning!! Joseph doesn't take much interest in many toys, so it was nice to find something that he really enjoys (and can stand up to his penchant for chewing).


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Charliethree said:


> Thanks for the warning!! Joseph doesn't take much interest in many toys, so it was nice to find something that he really enjoys (and can stand up to his penchant for chewing).




The jolly ball is tough! I'm so happy he likes it 


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

He has destroyed so many toys, chewed them to bits, even the so called 'indestructible' ones. I hope this one is 'tough enough'!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Had to hide the Jollyball from Joseph last night, despite being tired, and 'napping' with his chin resting on it, he didn't want to stop playing with it. He was not 'happy' - looked all over for it, but finally settled into a deep sleep.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

Just seeing this now. I love the photos of happy Charlie with his ball and I especially love the last one. It is always such a great thing when our rescues are finally comfortable enough to give their mama's some sass. That photo made my day. Tell Charlie thanks for me!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Charliethree said:


> Had to hide the Jollyball from Joseph last night, despite being tired, and 'napping' with his chin resting on it, he didn't want to stop playing with it. He was not 'happy' - looked all over for it, but finally settled into a deep sleep.




I had to laugh! Duke and I have a daily battle as he tries to sneak his into the house 


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

OMG just realized I posted in the wrong thread. Sorry! Joseph looks like he is having a blast with the jolly ball. Has he forgiven you for taking it away last night? I have one for Bailey at home and at the lake place. It's the one with the handle (I think it's called the Tug and toss). Bailey, naughty little boy that he is, walks around with the handle in his mouth bopping the other dogs over the head with it. Until Jack has enough and take it away and hides it under the bed. Lol. What was l8fe before jolly balls?!?!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

No problem! Joseph has 'forgiven', but hasn't forgotten, the first thing he did was search out 'his' ball and found it in a box on the table. Sat whining and looking at the box, and waiting, for me to give it to him.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Playing the 'Hide' game with Joseph yesterday, he is like a kid in a candy store, get so excited has a hard time focusing! He has got the 'Hide' behavior down pretty good, so I have decided to take it a step further, and have him walk with me (move forward and backwards (he has 'back' up on cue)), while staying in position between my legs. Did a few trial runs with it yesterday - what a hoot!! going to take some practice but I am sure he will catch on. Love challenging his brain, he thrives on it too.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Joseph was playing with his squeaky ball, so I got the Jollyball, and started to play with Milo. So of course, Joseph wants the Jollyball, and ends up stealing it from Milo, Milo wasn't quick enough. So Milo goes and gets Joseph's squeaky ball, I toss it for him a few times, and Joseph decides he doesn't want the Jollyball, he wants the his ball back. ​Milo picks up the squeaky ball takes it into the bedroom, up on the bed and lays on it, he doesn't want to play with it, he just wants to keep it, lays there on the bed with Joseph staring at him. Joseph comes back out into the living room, plays with the Jollyball a bit, then lays down with his chin resting on it. Milo comes out of the bedroom with the ball in his mouth, goes and stands by Joseph 'SEE, I still have your ball.' Joseph lifts his head, Milo turns away and climbs up on the couch. He puts the ball down and lays with it tucked under his neck and goes to sleep. Joseph sat there staring at Milo for a few minutes, I rolled the Jollyball for him, he looked at it - 'Nope - that is not it.', then he lays down, stared at Milo a bit longer, then passes out. Keep in mind there are two other squeaky balls, neither was good enough for Joseph, (or Milo, for that matter). 

The 'games' doggies play!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I'm with Milo 


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

jennretz said:


> I'm with Milo
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh, I agree! It is interesting watching these little 'games' play out. No fussing, no fighting, a bit of whining (on Joseph's part), but in the end 'possession' is 10/10ths of the 'law'.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

It's the same at our house. Charlie always wants what Duke has or vice versa. They seem to understand the "rules"....but I'm not sure what they are so I let them work it out 


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

jennretz said:


> It's the same at our house. Charlie always wants what Duke has or vice versa. They seem to understand the "rules"....but I'm not sure what they are so I let them work it out
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


More often than not, the less we 'interfere', the more smoothly things run. Dogs 'speak' dog, and they learn very quickly from each other what is 'appropriate' and what is not.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

Same thing happens at our house with toys between Gracie and Bailey. Here, however, Gracie will nearly always relinquish whatever toy it is to Bailey. I don't think she really wanted the toy to begin with (she isn't as into toys as Bailey is) but wanted to remind Bailey that she is the "boss" dog and can take whatever she wants whenever she wants it...but, as a benign ruler, she always does what is "best" for her minions so she eventually gives the toy back to Bailey. In the case of Gracie it is almost as if she is reminding Bailey that she is in charge. Bailey always acquiesce to Gracie and allows her the toy. She returns it to him after a short period of time, usually with great ceremony. Flinging it into the air in his direction as if to say, "Ok. You can have it now. I am done with it." Then she walks away.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

All four dogs, are pretty good about working things out, sometimes one might lift a lip, or get a little 'growly' if need be, but that is not something I worry about, the recipient understands that and knows to give more space.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

I often think that our dogs are better at resolving issues than humans are. They resolve things between them without anger (in most cases) and do not possess the ability to hold a grudge. I think that the human race could learn a great deal about getting along with one another by watching the interactions of dogs. There is no artifice between dogs. What you see, if you are paying attention, is what you get. We humans should be so honest in our communication with each other as dogs are with one another.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

G-bear said:


> I often think that our dogs are better at resolving issues than humans are. They resolve things between them without anger (in most cases) and do not possess the ability to hold a grudge. I think that the human race could learn a great deal about getting along with one another by watching the interactions of dogs. There is no artifice between dogs. What you see, if you are paying attention, is what you get. We humans should be so honest in our communication with each other as dogs are with one another.


 
Indeed, we do have a lot to learn, and could well learn it from our dogs. One of the things I admire most about dogs is their 'honesty' and 'integrity', their innate desire to live peaceably with us, without confrontation or pain, as we should live with them.

Recommend reading the books: 'The Culture Clash' by Jean Donaldson 
and, 'The Well Adjusted Dog' by Dr. Nicholas H. Dodman .


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

We have been spending some time playing the 'Hide' game, Joseph is loving the 'dance', mind and body in motion, setting him free. He gets so excited, I have to work at slowing him down, regaining focus, self control is tough for him, has always been, such a fine line between 'thinking' and over the top 'happy' mode, and that is okay. He gets a little frustrated, thinks I am too slow, (I am sure) - 'Have patience Joseph, I am learning this too!', so we take a break, 'settle' and reset, and start over again. I guess I have some 'homework' to do, working out a routine -- having dived in, as simply 'try it' and see what happens adventure, I wasn't quite prepared for him to take to it with such gusto! It has been so good for him, the 'side effects' are amazing, he gets to be a 'normal' dog, happy and content, his is at 'peace', all is 'right' in his world.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

It seems like Joseph has been growing by leaps and bounds lately. Something seems to have clicked for him allowing him to be less fearful. It's inspiring


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

It has been wonderful to see the change in him, to find something that really seems to 'work' for him, every dog is different in their needs. 

If I were to do it over again I would, (and advise anyone with a rehomed dog to), give him more time to settle in, to get his feet on the ground, to trust, to get to know him, before proceeding with the training that we needed to provide for him. Due to circumstances, him being a foster dog, our 'job' was to 'make' him adoptable, to 'fix' him, sooner than later, he was forced into situations that terrified him, and I do believe, at least in part, that it created more problems for him.Had he been given that opportunity, I am sure that we would have gotten to where we are today, sooner. 

We need to understand that we cannot 'fix' them, nor should we try, they are not damaged or broken, they are hurting, we need to help them heal and healing takes time.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

I agree that they are hurting and need to heal but I think that often times the healing that takes place is not exactly what we expect. For example when a broken leg is set the goal is for it to heal perfectly and be completely useable. This doesn't always happen exactly as planned. Often times it will heal just a bit off and while still useable it is slightly off. Was it the fault of the doctor? In some cases perhaps but in others the break (or hurt or injury--whatever you want to call it) was so traumatic that a partial healing is the best outcome possible. Of course one could re-break and re-set and hope for a different outcome but you have to factor in the amount of pain that would be caused. Sometimes, I think, one has to accept "healing" which is by the standards of most people, less than perfect. Such is the case with some of these dogs. They do heal over time but it is not always "perfect". The standard of behavior is set by those who have not experienced trauma. Often times those of us with these special dogs have to make allowances for the fact that the manner in which they have healed makes it necessary for us to provide them with things which would never even be considered necessary for a dog which had not experienced trauma. So I think part of the process of healing for these dogs is for us, as the people blessed to have them as part of our lives, to adjust our expectations of what healed is and make allowances for them.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Absolutely, we need to keep an open mind, 'There' is a matter of perspective. By allowing them their limitations, we are not settling for 'less', but accepting them, loving them for 'who' they are. They may not be 'everyone's' idea of a 'perfect' dog, but they are no doubt, 'perfect' for us.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

You are so right. Absolutely perfect.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I good read, a reminder to cut ourselves, and our dogs, some 'slack'.

S*** Happens: Breaking the Perceptions of Perfection and Control | The Collared Scholar


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Something about those eyes, that just melts the heart.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

They say that the eyes are the window to the soul. If this is true you can see that Joseph is a dog who has seen a lot of the worst in human beings. Fortunately he now has a safe and loving home in which to heal. You're right. Joseph's eyes say "please love me" and he is clearly very, very loved. Give Joseph a gentle hug from me. He has the most beautiful and soulful eyes I have ever seen in a dog.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

He is a beautiful soul! I often look into his eyes, Charlie's too, it is clear they have a story to tell, through their eyes they tell it. Honest in their fear and their pain, honest in their hope, yet bright, shining with the joy of life, to love and to be loved, and live a good and happy life.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Playing the 'Show me!' game.

'Is this it?' (Tail wagging, the 'wheels' are turning.)









'Not so sure.'









His 'mat' is his 'go to' spot, when he chooses to take a 'break' from all that 'hard work'.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Charliethree said:


> He is a beautiful soul! I often look into his eyes, Charlie's too, it is clear they have a story to tell, through their eyes they tell it. Honest in their fear and their pain, honest in their hope, yet bright, shining with the joy of life, to love and to be loved, and live a good and happy life.


I see the please love me, but I also see the pure love and trust coming through as well 

He's a special boy who has journeyed so far.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

He is such a treasure! So much fun!


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

I love Joseph (and Charlie and all of the other special dogs on GRF). They have had such difficult journeys and have come so far. The stories are inspiring and I am honored to have been allowed to read them. Joseph is a treasure for sure. It often seems to me that the eyes of these dogs seem to express so much more than the eyes of other dogs. I know I am not imagining this as last night I showed DH Joseph's photo with no explanation and he also thought Joseph's eyes told a sad story with hope now. Their eyes communicate to us if we look.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

It is a privilege and an honor to be able to share his story, and to read so many wonderful 'rescue dog' stories. In sharing our stories, in a small way, helps to dispel the rescue dog myths, and show that they can and do become loving, giving, trustworthy, and highly valued best friends and a huge part of our 'family'. There is no 'heart' as big as the heart of a rescued dog!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I 'believe'!! Wishes do come true!!

'Rescuing one dog may not change the world, but it will surely change the world for that one dog.'


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

Ahhh Joseph you have come so far and done so well. I hope that all of your Christmas dreams come true but I know your biggest dream already has...a safe place to rest your big beautiful head where you are safe, loved and know you will never be harmed again. You, Joseph, are loved and accepted for exactly who you are. You are a valued member of a family


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

'Dare' to dream and make a wish come true!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

He is looking at you so intently as if his whole purpose is to make you happy because he loves you


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Poor Joseph, his humans are a bit slow, his ball had found it's way behind a cabinet, how I don't really know. But he tried to tell us, laying on the floor looking longing at the cabinet, whining quietly trying to tell us where his ball had gone.
"What do you want?" - 'Oh hey!! ' his face lights up, he jumps up, paws at the cupboard 'My ball is in there, please, get it for me!!' "Really? Are you sure?" 'Absolutely, positive!!!' He danced around as we moved the Christmas tree, and then the cabinet, and sure enough, there was his favorite, crusty, much loved ball. There were others just like it, but this one was 'the one', the 'only one' that truly makes him happy!! 

It is the 'little' things that bring so much joy!!


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

Joseph, I am so glad your humans finally got you your special ball. We humans often do not understand the importance of that one special toy. It's very good that you explained it to your people so that they could understand. But Joseph, just one little thing, you need to try really hard not to roll it under that cabinet because moving the Christmas tree and the cabinet was an awful lot of work for your humans.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

He is usually pretty careful about it, but this time it must have gotten away from him. He has become quite the 'pro' at letting us know there is something he wants, whether it is 'dinner', 'Oh please I am starving!!', a toy that has been put out of reach, or if need be, (and we are out of sight) he is not averse to helping himself. He lets us know when he is not happy with having to stay home, or that we are busy and can't pay him attention just yet - he gives this look of 'reluctant acceptance' , heads for the bedroom and closes the door behind him.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

One of Joseph's favorite toys is a cardboard box. Even better if it is stuffed with paper, better still, if, scattered amongst that paper is some kibble! or other yummy treats and the box is folded shut. He gets to use his natural 'doggie' skills, work his brain and his nose, he gets to hunt, to throw it around and tear it apart, and of course, he gets to eat!! 

All the dogs like to play this game, but Joseph thinks it is more fun than counter surfing!!


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

What a wonderful thing! I had never thought of doing this. I am absolutely sure that Jack will love this "hunt" in the box. Thank you for the great exercise for my boy!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Jack will probably like it, the others will likely enjoy it too. 

The first couple of times I gave them the boxes, I made it 'easy' for them, used small boxes, and high value (stinky) treats, so they could figure out how it 'works'. Then gradually made it a little more difficult for them - bigger boxes, more stuffing, lower value treats, their enthusiasm for the game hasn't diminished at all! 

Another game we play, 'Feeding the chickens', out in the yard, is a huge hit with them. I take some kibble or mix it up with some higher value treats, and scatter (throw) it around the yard, then tell them to 'Go look.' Uses their brain, uses their nose, and gives them some exercise searching the treats out. A lot of fun for them, keeps them busy for a while, doesn't matter to them if it is grass, or they need to search through the snow, they don't give up until they are pretty sure they have found every last one.

Joseph is hilarious when we are about to play this game, bouncing up and down, all four feet off the ground, barking and whining in anticipation. (Could use it as an opportunity to practice impulse control, but I figure why spoil his fun!) Charlie and Milo watch in eager anticipation, and are heading out after the first throw. Miss Kaya, though she knows quite well how the game works, stands and watches me until I have thrown the last bunch, then off she goes. 

I love to watch their social skills 'in practice', peace keeping signals, conflict avoidance, giving way, creating space - much like a dance. There were a few minor 'snaps' - 'get out of my space' growly events, when we first started with this game, but it didn't take them long to learn to pay closer attention to the silent signals, and to respect each others space, move away, and go search somewhere else.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

A couple of articles, well worth reading.

https://positively.com/contributors/leash-reactivity-why-does-it-happen-and-how-can-you-stop-it/

https://positively.com/contributors/how-to-stop-leash-reactivity-and-start-enjoying-walks-again/


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I love your description of the box game and Joseph's "anticipation antics". Think I might break this out this weekend when the boys are going crazy with energy...


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

We have played "feeding the chickens" many, many times here. I never had a name for it tho. Thanks! Jack is especially fond of that game, in part, because Jack has been on a perpetual diet since moving in with us. Since Jack is a scent hound and he lives to use his nose to find food he has a distinct advantage over the other 2 dogs. He generally finds the majority of the "chicken feed" but both Gracie and Bailey will participate as well. They simply don't take it as seriously as Jack does. Jack is highly focused when it comes to food and it is one of his favorite activities. Winter presents a challenge to find the treats. They become soggy if I hide them in the snow but if I don't hide them they are simply too easy for Jack to find. I have to at least try to make it challenging so the poor guy gets soggy "chicken feed" from November to March here


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I find it fascinating to watch how much joy it brings them use their natural instincts/abilities/talents. For sure some have stronger 'drive' than others, Milo would much prefer his food to land in his bowl! he is always the first to give up, but he does love to use his nose - tracking rabbits in the snow is the best thing ever for him.
We spend a lot of time, and sometimes money, coming up with things for them to do, ways to exercise their bodies and their brains, but it is nice to give them that freedom, just let them be 'dogs' and do something that comes 'naturally' and is so enjoyable for them.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I started reading "The Other End of the Leash" last night. Think I'm going to really like that book. Christopher also got "The Culture Clash" for me for Christmas so I'll have some good reading to do this winter. I have all your other recommendations on my night table as well. How do you find time to read with 4 dogs? LOL


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I read the books to them!

Actually, most often that is what I do for 'downtime'. I lay on the bed, (or in it), 3 or 4 dogs all up there too, whoever wants to join me, snuggled up close, pretty cozy! Takes me a while to read a whole book, but we eventually get through them. 
Most of the books I go back to and read them again, maybe a month or six months down the road and often find there are things I missed the first time around. 
Don't remember if I have mentioned 'Bones Would Rain From the Sky' by Suzanne Clothier, but it is an excellent read!


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

Just wanted to tell you that the box game was a huge success with Jack. Even though I didn't have a very good box for the game (just a grocery box which was open at the top) he LOVED it! Thank you for the great idea!!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

What do you see? What is he telling you? 









We can easily mistake doing 'nothing' for acceptance of, or 'liking', what is happening to them, but if we take a moment to look, that 'snapshot' in time, we can easily see how our dog is truly feeling about what they are experiencing. We need to take a 'hard look' and ensure that our dog, who is 'doing nothing', has not merely 'shut down'.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

He's not comfortable with the harness...

....or possibly the camera?


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

He is afraid of it, he was displaying the stress signals before I got the camera out. 

In hindsight, an example of the consequences/risk of 'flooding'- repeated exposure to something the dog is afraid of, and has no escape from. When we first started using a harness on him to go to classes, he was a foster then, he would try to rub it off or shake it off, run around, roll around, and finally give up trying to remove it. We were told he was just being a 'drama queen' and to ignore his behavior and keep using it. Over time it became a predictor of negative consequences for him, (classes were very stressful for him) he got to the point where if I picked it up he would run, he would come back when called, displaying many stress signals, and tolerate having it put on him. We stopped using it on him for a few months, then set to work counter conditioning him to it, getting him to the point where we could even get it over his head, took a long time, the photos are of his reaction the first time it was actually 'on' him and he 'shut down', did 'nothing' (except stand there in fear and resignation - learned helplessness) - not the kind of association a dog should have with anything. Had we understood, in the beginning that he was 'uncomfortable'/anxious/stressed with wearing the harness, and that he would not 'just get over it', (as was suggested) we could have done things a lot differently, and he would not have developed such an intense fear of it, we could have made it a whole lot easier for him. (Not beating myself up, unfortunately I didn't know then, what I know now!)

Whatever we are teaching our dogs we need to be mindful of how they are perceiving what and how we are doing what we are doing.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

Just seeing this now. When I looked at the photos it reminded me of Jack the first (and only time) we put a harness on him. It was shortly after he'd come to live with us. Since I had 3 dogs and have a condition which limits my strength and movement I had purchased a harness for Jack in the event he attempted to bolt on me (he weighed 91 lbs when he first arrived and had issues with strangers so I was worried I might have a dog attempt to run). The expression on Joseph's face is similar to Jack's that day. Resignation but also fear. The harness came off immediately that day. I think it's in a closet somewhere. In Jack's case since he had been tied to a tree and shot at with no ability to escape I think he may have found the harness to be too restrictive and it brought him back to a fearful place. At any rate we have used a regular collar when we walk Jack. He walks beautifully most of the time but, occasionally when we are at our lake home he will find a scent which interests him and will then tend to lag behind the other dogs. I try to remind myself that Jack's stopping to sniff is not unlike me when I window shop. Lol.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I really wish we could dispense with the idea of using a harness on him, but he has throat damage, (coughs if there is too much pressure on the flat collar) and we need it as a 'back up', just in case there are problems on walks. He walks well on the flat collar, but if something comes up, the harness is safer for him physically, gives more control if/when it is needed. Joseph cannot wear a Thundershirt, (we tried) and the medical shirt that was put on him when he had his shoulder injury was so upsetting for him he quit eating - replaced it with a looser T-shirt, and he was fine.
Tough to know why confinement is terrifying for some of them, but, unfortunately some have good reason to be afraid. Charlie panics in a crate, and it took him a while to get used to the harness but he never had the extreme reaction Joseph did.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

Poor sweet Joseph! I had no idea he had throat problems. My daughter's dog uses a harness, although he is not keen on it. She uses it because Fitz has a tendency to become a bit too eager to chase squirrels and rabbits on walks (they live in a rural area) and since Fitz is a Dutch Shepherd and my daughter is a very small woman a harness works best. She bought one and then had me sew sheepskin on all the areas which touch Fitz. She has said he is more comfortable wearing the harness now and doesn't object to it being put on as much. Would something like that help Joseph if it was softer on his body?


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestion, but I am pretty sure it is not the 'harness' but what it came to mean/predict for him that elicits the fear response. He is still a little bit 'hedgy' about wearing the harness, but if I can get him moving quickly and focused on 'doing' he relaxes in it. 


Mission accomplished! Born to 'hunt', born to 'retrieve'! 
I have a lot of admiration for that boy!!
(Yes, I slipped up..... again.)

We were sitting in the living room last night, watching TV, all the dogs were settled, napping (or so we thought), then I see Joseph trotting past the kitchen doorway, heading for the bedroom, something in his mouth, proud as can be. I said to hubby, 'Joseph has something.' He says 'What do you mean? He is right here.' (not) He goes and checks on Joseph, who has already devoured his prize, and picks up the bag, empty of the bread crust I had forgotten on the back of the counter. Joseph was a bit apologetic, having been 'caught in the act', (a few seconds later and he would have denied having any part of it) I heard hubby tell him it was okay, and then I see Joseph trotting back into the kitchen. (No doubt, checking for more!)


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Every once in a while, the 'real' Joseph sneaks out!! 
Truly a fun lovin' boy at heart!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Those photos are lovely. Happy Joseph


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

Great photos! I love the one of Joseph on his back with his feet in the air. "I'm so cute...don't ya know it?!?" He has such a happy puppy-like expression.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

G-bear said:


> Great photos! I love the one of Joseph on his back with his feet in the air. "I'm so cute...don't ya know it?!?" He has such a happy puppy-like expression.


Just wanted to share the 'bright side', they are fun, goofy, delightful, they *are* 'normal' dogs!!!! 

In search of the lost toy! 

























'It is in here somewhere, I know it is!'


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Joseph's face can be hard to read due to his coloring but Miss Kaya keeps me 'up' on the signals I should be watching for. In the first photo she is fairly relaxed. Then the tongue flick, just a split second, telling me she is feeling a bit stressed but curious. Then the ears go down and back, she begins panting and the obvious creases at the corner of her mouth appear. As she becomes more at ease, her ears move forward again, and the creases at the corners of her mouth relax. All these signals occur in a matter of seconds, and are so easily missed. With Joseph I watch closely for the tongue flicks, his first signal that something is bothering him (a stress signal seen more often in black dogs, perhaps an adaptation due to their coloring), take note of his ear position, and signs of tension in his body and panting. He tends to 'speed up' and become more vigilant if the situation becomes more stressful for him but he has learned to quickly automatically 'check in', and sit, it helps him to focus on me, and relax a bit.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Was watching Joseph ask Kaya to play!! He can be a bull in a China shop, intimidating to her, but I watched as he politely play bowed, barked and asked her to play. She stood and looked at him, a bit wary, unsure whether to accept the invite, he got a little impatient, approached her and pawed at her, 'Come on! Let's play!'. She snapped at him, letting him know she didn't appreciate his rude behavior, he backed off, play bowed again, bounced away from her, and chase was on. Joseph is 'into' contact sports, Kaya would rather not play like that, she would rather play 'chase'. It was wonderful to see Joseph willing and eager to play her way. 

He has come a long ways, learning how to be 'appropriate', how to be a polite boy (most of the time). So proud of him!!!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Charliethree said:


> Was watching Joseph ask Kaya to play!! He can be a bull in a China shop, intimidating to her, but I watched as he politely play bowed, barked and asked her to play. She stood and looked at him, a bit wary, unsure whether to accept the invite, he got a little impatient, approached her and pawed at her, 'Come on! Let's play!'. She snapped at him, letting him know she didn't appreciate his rude behavior, he backed off, play bowed again, bounced away from her, and chase was on. Joseph is 'into' contact sports, Kaya would rather not play like that, she would rather play 'chase'. It was wonderful to see Joseph willing and eager to play her way.
> 
> He has come a long ways, learning how to be 'appropriate', how to be a polite boy (most of the time). So proud of him!!!




Ahhh.....Joseph is just so amazing he's really come into his own 


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

It must be nice to know too that Joseph can now enjoy being a dog. He gets rewarded for being a polite dog by getting played with.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Joseph had learned to play well first with Milo, who was 'okay' with his 'line backer' style, and loves to wrestle with other dogs, and then with Charlie, who prefers to play chase, Kaya was the last 'hold out'. Her timid nature causes her to withdraw, hide, from those things that she was afraid of, especially when interacting with other dogs, (she has had some pretty negative experiences with other dogs) so it was pretty heartwarming to see her with confidence enough to play with him. A 'win' for both of them!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

*What if??*

Dogs were all shades of black and white? 
How would we choose?
Would our perceptions of how they behave depend on how dark or light they were?


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

I've never considered this but since so many of my dogs have been rescues I don't know that it has ever really been an issue. I've always seemed to end up with the dog who was in the most dire straits,regardless of what they looked like. With Jack I looked into his eyes and saw a dog who was terribly fearful but at the same time the way he held his head was so noble. As if he was telling the world, "I know I have been kicked around but I am still worth something". I knew that he was a special boy that first day I saw him and every single day he reminds me of that.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

You are so right, it is in the eyes, the windows to the soul, that we see and 'feel' what they are feeling, that takes hold of our hearts. 

I do find Joseph's face harder to 'read' than those of the lighter colored dogs, and maybe that is why, in the past, I have always 'leaned' towards lighter colored dogs. Joseph has shown me, that it is not what is on the 'outside', but what is on the 'inside' that counts - they are all truly amazing dogs!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

and he has a pretty cool sense of humor.

Hide and seek! Usually I hide the treats and Joseph does the seeking, but once in a while he takes the initiative and hides a treat for me. 








Can you find me?








Bet you can't see me now!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

That picture of him is so sweet


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Came across this article, a great reminder, for those who are living with, or working with a fearful or reactive dog. Working with Joseph was a 'process', and at times it felt counter intuitive, but sticking to the program, really, really does work!!

https://muttabouttown.com/2016/04/28/when-getting-the-behavior-isnt-the-priority/


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

A little celebration post! With the weather being colder and snowier, it is pretty quiet in the neighbourhood, perfect for more street walks with Joseph, we can relax and he can enjoy being a dog. We got a bit of a surprise yesterday, heading out the gate, out on the street goes by all of Joseph's triggers in 'one', a stranger with a dog pulling a sled with kids on it. This was all a little 'too much' for Joseph, and he reacted, something he hasn't done in a long time, he barked, he pulled on the leash, then all of our practicing 'paid off'. We automatically did a U-turn, heading the other way, as soon as his eyes were off the dog, he looked up at me, though still quite anxious, he took the treats I offered him as we walked back into the yard. I walked him around the yard a bit, gave him some time to 'shake it off' and recover, then we headed out the gate again and took a short walk. He was anxious, 'on his toes', checking 'over his shoulder' on occasion, but he settled quickly, with lots of reinforcement for being such a good boy our walk ended on a good note.

A bit of a reminder for me, that even though we may not need the skills we learn ourselves and teach our dogs, on a regular basis, it never hurts to practice and reward them, keep them 'fresh'.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Charliethree said:


> A little celebration post! With the weather being colder and snowier, it is pretty quiet in the neighbourhood, perfect for more street walks with Joseph, we can relax and he can enjoy being a dog. We got a bit of a surprise yesterday, heading out the gate, out on the street goes by all of Joseph's triggers in 'one', a stranger with a dog pulling a sled with kids on it. This was all a little 'too much' for Joseph, and he reacted, something he hasn't done in a long time, he barked, he pulled on the leash, then all of our practicing 'paid off'. We automatically did a U-turn, heading the other way, as soon as his eyes were off the dog, he looked up at me, though still quite anxious, he took the treats I offered him as we walked back into the yard. I walked him around the yard a bit, gave him some time to 'shake it off' and recover, then we headed out the gate again and took a short walk. He was anxious, 'on his toes', checking 'over his shoulder' on occasion, but he settled quickly, with lots of reinforcement for being such a good boy our walk ended on a good note.
> 
> 
> A bit of a reminder for me, that even though we may not need the skills we learn ourselves and teach our dogs, on a regular basis, it never hurts to practice and reward them, keep them 'fresh'.


You are so in tune with Joseph. You did exactly what he needed


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

jennretz said:


> You are so in tune with Joseph. You did exactly what he needed


It was definitely one of those 'Wow!' moments, so proud of him!!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Charliethree said:


> Came across this article, a great reminder, for those who are living with, or working with a fearful or reactive dog. Working with Joseph was a 'process', and at times it felt counter intuitive, but sticking to the program, really, really does work!!
> 
> https://muttabouttown.com/2016/04/28/when-getting-the-behavior-isnt-the-priority/



Had a chance to read the article today. I actually see how that can apply to humans as well. For example, if your workplace is completely stressful, are you going to get the best creative thinking out of your people? Or, are they going to be so focused on is this meeting is going to make me stay one hour later tonight? You're not going to get the best out of your team.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

You might be surprised how much we learn about working with dogs, is applicable to people as well, fundamentally we are very much the same.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Cold weather fun. What's in the box???


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Not sure how he can sleep like that, but he often does!!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

❤ that picture of Joseph. He is feeling safe and loved 


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

https://wheresyoursit.wordpress.com/2017/02/13/exercise-dog-reactivity/

Something to think about. This has been a real 'game changer' for Joseph. Over the last several months, I have focused on providing mental 'exercise' vs physical exercise for Joseph, the results have been amazing. It has been very beneficial to my non-reactive dogs as well resulting in over all more relaxed and content dogs . I don't do 'tracking' (officially) but 'seeking' (finding kibble in the grass/snow), I suspect provides a similar experience, uses multiple senses - sight, smell, and the opportunity to 'think' for themselves. 
Though this article focuses on reactive dogs, I suspect following such a program with a newly rehomed dog, who is experiencing an extremely stressful life change, would be very beneficial in making the 'settling in' period easier for them.
We tend to think an over active, hyper dog, with little self control simply needs more physical exercise, needs to be physically 'drained', when perhaps, for some, if not many, what they really need, is the opportunity to relax, and use their brain.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Post 'walk in the country' fallout.

Caught 'someone' sleeping on the job!!









Might as well get comfy. 









For those who are interested: The book Stress, Anxiety and Aggression by Anders Hallgren, provides an informative look at how stress impacts our dogs. Well worth taking the time to read.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

Joseph isn't sleeping! He's just resting his eyes


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

https://thecognitivecanine.com/2016/10/19/matters-of-consent/

We don't often think much about not giving our dogs a 'choice' in the many things we ask of them, sometimes even ignoring their obvious reluctance, apprehensions. In a time of crisis or emergency, we are forced to do what we 'have' to do, but the vast majority of the time, we are able to delay or alter our approach, and willing cooperation, giving them a 'choice' and listening when they say 'No', should be our priority and our goal.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

The above post is so true. I have noticed with Jack that often when he is reluctant to engage in some activity and I simply allow him to do what he feels comfortable with doing the stress level in him drops visibly. Jack is very hesitant to try new things and I have learned over the years that if he balks at first it is better to just leave him be and allow him the opportunity to "think it through" and decide for himself if it is something he wants to try. An example of this was last fall when I bought Bailey Jump and weave polls since Bailey very much enjoys them. I tried two or three times to interest Jack in them but he was not about to give them a try. I let him be and he sat and very carefully watched Bailey. One day, out of nowhere, I was working with Bailey on his jump poles and Jack came barreling at the poles. He came to a sudden halt at the bar looked at it and jumped straight into the air in an attempt to jump over it (knocking everything to the ground, of course). A little while later he tried again and this time ran and jumped at the right time. He didn't clear the pole but he had the idea. Because it is winter and the ground is too frozen to put the poles up we haven't done them for a while but last time we tried Jack was occasionally able to make it over the pole and he is usually eager to try. So, sometimes it is best to allow them their own time table for doing things and allow them to make choices as to what they do.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I have found, especially with Joseph and Charlie, that this works so well in practice, and is huge for reinforcing confidence and trust. They know that I am not going to 'make them' do what I have asked them to do, and therefore are more willing to give it a try (or offer the behavior) on their own. For example: getting their collars, on is something they were both showing active avoidance of, so we worked through a program of 'shaping' the behavior. First they were rewarded for approaching while I held the collar in my hand, then I waited until they 'touched' the collar with their nose, marked and rewarded for that, gradually working with them to the point where I can hold the collar up, and they easily choose to place their heads into their collars. Took some patience, lots of praise and rewards, but, in giving them the choice, they were able to trust that nothing bad was going to happen to them, and are quite happy to 'get dressed'.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

How did you do that consistently when sometimes you just need to put a leash on? Over what period of time did you work on their shaping?


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

If we 'had' to put a collar on them, laying the collar across their necks would cause them to 'freeze' and 'tolerate' having it done up. They learned over time that collar = walks, but my goal was to change their association with it. 

They were familiar with shaping (offering behaviors) so once they were touching the collar with their nose, comfortable with the sight of it, it went pretty fast from there. I didn't really track how long it took, we did a two or three sessions a day, but probably about 2 weeks, to get that 'happy' response.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

An excellent blog, something to think seriously about.

If you haven't read 'Bones Would Rain from the Sky' I highly recommend it.

There are no guarantees. No easy fixes. But there is transcendence. ? Wildflower Dog Training


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I have the book, but haven't read it yet. Working my way slowly through my books.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

PS - thanks for sharing that blog! That is exactly the trap I fell into when I rescued my Charlie.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

jennretz said:


> PS - thanks for sharing that blog! That is exactly the trap I fell into when I rescued my Charlie.


The evolution of the art of taking our relationships with our dogs to a whole new level.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Was laying on the floor last night playing with Joseph, (Milo and Charlie had taken over the couch) pretending to chew the remnants of his soggy bathroom tissue tube. The look on his face was priceless! Puzzled, shocked, curious, he watched me intensely. Then I would offer it back to him, much to his relief, and he would gently take it from me, I would take another piece to 'chew', he would drop the piece he had in his mouth, and resume watching me, with that confused, sweet faced questioning look. Didn't take him long to figure out I was playing a game, and he was quite enjoying it, but I had to call it quits when he began sticking his big paw in my face.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

Ahhh sweet Joseph. I can picture your boy playing that game with the cardboard roll. The mental picture of your play is a wonderful way to begin a day


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

agree with G-bear  Joseph continues to gain trust and knows how loved he is ...


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

He is such a sweetie pie, he really is! truly couldn't ask for a nicer dog.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Just stopping by to see how Joseph is doing?


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Thanks for thinking of Joseph. He is doing wonderfully! We have a new 'trick', he thinks it is fantastic fun. We have gotten 'back up' on cue, so we play a game, I call him to me, once he gets to me, I say 'Back up' and he will start backing up across the room. To add some fun I will throw in a sit or down cue, when he is part way, and then tell him to 'back up' again and he keeps going until he hits his bed. He is such a hoot! Such a sweetheart! Loves to play these games!!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Charliethree said:


> Thanks for thinking of Joseph. He is doing wonderfully! We have a new 'trick', he thinks it is fantastic fun. We have gotten 'back up' on cue, so we play a game, I call him to me, once he gets to me, I say 'Back up' and he will start backing up across the room. To add some fun I will throw in a sit or down cue, when he is part way, and then tell him to 'back up' again and he keeps going until he hits his bed. He is such a hoot! Such a sweetheart! Loves to play these games!!



I want to learn how to do this! I think you guys are quite a bit more advanced than we are currently 

Glad he's having fun and learning and enjoying life!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

jennretz said:


> I want to learn how to do this! I think you guys are quite a bit more advanced than we are currently
> 
> Glad he's having fun and learning and enjoying life!


That he is!! 

To teach Joseph to 'back up', I shaped it. I started with him standing in front of me, and I would take a small step towards him, saying 'Back up', if he moved backwards even with one hind paw, I marked and rewarded it. Progressing to asking for more and more backward steps, as I moved forward with him, rewarding as we moved. Once he understood what I was asking of him, I could just give him the 'Back up' cue. It is a really good exercise for teaching hind end awareness, and to strengthen the back end. 
Some dogs will automatically back up if you lean towards them, or step into their space, if that happens, then you can 'capture' it, 'mark and reward' it. Baby gates work well for this too. Have the dog stand close to the gate, on the 'inside' so the gate swings towards them, give them the back up cue as you slowly open the gate. Mark and reward when they move back away from the gate. They catch on pretty quickly.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Charliethree said:


> That he is!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm going to try this! Thanks for sharing


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Have fun with it!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I may have to revoke Joseph's 'lab' license. With the spring thaw and the yard temporarily turning into a 'lake' a few days ago, it has become apparent he is not a 'water' dog. I watched as he carefully picked and weaved his way across the yard, the sun had melted some of the ice into puddles, stopping and looking for the high spots, planning his route, not wanting to get his feet wet. The melt had pooled along the sidewalk, stretching down the middle of the yard from the house to the garage, the overnight freeze had added a layer of ice to the top, which hadn't started to thaw, just yet. He stopped at the edge of the sidewalk, taking a careful look, put his paw on it, the ice cracked under his weight, he jumped back, surprise on his face. 'Nope, can't go there.' as he turned and trotted back to the porch, pondering a different route. Then he decided to go right instead of left, to the other side of the yard, hoping that just maybe that side will be drier and still needing to make his rounds. Then something catches his attention, perhaps a squirrel, on the other side of the 'great divide' at the far end of the yard, forgetting himself for a moment but not the ice on the sidewalk, he took a 'leap of faith' over the icy pathway. By then the squirrel has run off, he turns around, slowly picks his way back to the house and back over to the other side to finish his tour. 

Luckily for Joseph, and perhaps 'Thankfully!' in Joseph's eyes, part of the yard is finally clear of ice and snow, and the sidewalk is dry and safe for him to walk on. I watch as he travels down the sidewalk, passing by the ice and snow, which still spans almost to the back of the yard, around the corner, careful to stick to where it is bare and dry, makes his way onto the grass. He does his rounds, making sure everything checks out, no intruders have left their scent crossing 'his' yard. 'Security check' complete, he stops, plans his route back to the house, back across the yard on the grass he goes, a quick stop at the back gate, he turns around and comes bolting back to the house, woofing as his paws hit the back porch 'My job is done, now let me in!'


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Awww Joseph! You just like to be nice and dry ;-)


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

A rescue dog's prayer.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I read this article and my thoughts immediately turned to Joseph. Though his 'teenage years' did cause a few bumps in the road, I have come to admire and thoroughly enjoy his passion for fun, and his resolve to never quite let go of those 'teenage days' and to live life 'his way'.

Adolescent Dogs Are Like Teenage Humans ? Level Up Dog Training

Some good, sound, professional advice for working with a reactive dog.

https://positively.com/dog-behavior/aggression/leash-aggression/


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks for sharing


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

Excellent article. Thanks!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Waiting so patiently for me to get the 'message', trying to convince me that I should play ball with him.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

Oh Joseph, how could anyone refuse that sweet face of yours?


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I read this article and thought it was pretty amazing, something I strive for with each of my dogs. 

https://denisefenzi.com/2016/05/02/to-own-a-dog/

I thought about this when I was walking Joseph today, as we continue to explore our relationship/friendship outside the yard. We were out in the back alley, it was calm, no other dogs around I thought, a perfect 'set up' to give him some 'slack', so he could sniff and just be a dog. Suddenly on the neighbour's back porch stood a big ole shepherd dog, woofing loudly at us, Joseph startled, he didn't get 'loud and defensive' or 'lose control', though he was afraid, he was still in 'thinking mode', tail tucked, his body shifted just a little lower, he chose instead to move away, head back to the yard. It may not seem like 'much', and but I like to celebrate the 'little things', I am truly proud of him, his reaction was not one I expected at all.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Way to go Joseph


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

That is absolutely wonderful. Beautiful Joseph continues to inspire and amaze. Great job, Joseph


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

This is a very good read. 

https://dogguy.net/2016/12/04/leadership-the-most-dangerous-word-in-dog-training/


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Six years ago today, marks a new beginning for Joseph, the confirmation that he was going to be freed, and on his journey to us, though that journey wouldn't be for about a week. Waiting at the shelter, to start his new life.











A roller coaster ride from a scared and anxious, reactive dog to one who is loving life, full of fun stuff, and a sweet and adorable 'softer side' and I must say, a very handsome dude!








Most of his fears in his life have been addressed, but there is one that he just can't seem to let go of, the late arrival of his dinner time food bowl. It doesn't happen often, but when it does, oh my, he makes such fuss! A little bit late, results in whining and pacing, staring at me, staring at the food box. Letting me know he is about to fade away from 'starvation'. I was late coming home one day, got myself a full blown reprimand. I had let the dogs out in the yard, so they could have a potty break, and settle down for few minutes from their over excitement, he ran out, had a quick pee, then ran back in the house, stood in the doorway and 'yelled' at me 'Come on, dinner is late!! Get in here and put some food on my plate!' 

It is not the destination, but the journey that matters, and this has been one journey that exceeded all expectations, that has turned out so unbelievably amazing!! Such a treasure he has turned out to be!!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Ahh Joseph.....you like your food. Mom should know this and not keep you waiting....EVER....NO EXCUSES ;-)


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

Joseph, you are such a handsome boy. Your eyes tell a story and, after 6 years together, your mom is as lucky to have you as you are to have her. 
About that dinner thing tho...I'm right there with you Joseph. I absolutely hate it when my dinner is late also...of course if it is its my fault since I have to fix it myself; )


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

He is 'all about' food, loves to watch, waits so patiently and drools a lot, when I am making dog cookies, (or the people kind). He looks so polite, but I have no doubt he is waiting for his opportunity to strike and get 'his share' straight off the counter, before they even get cold!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Giving your dog something to do, prevents him or her from finding things to do that may not please you. Take the time to help occupy their minds.

Enrichment - iSpeakDog


Joseph was out in the yard for much longer than usual, and was much quieter than he usually is, so I took a look to see what he was up to. This is what he was doing, and had been doing for half an hour or more, I am pretty sure there was only a kibble or two in it, but he kept rolling it around until he emptied it.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Charliethree said:


> Giving your dog something to do, prevents him or her from finding things to do that may not please you. Take the time to help occupy their minds.
> 
> Enrichment - iSpeakDog
> 
> ...


So cute  I can't have one of those here. Charlie did get a little snappy when Duke tried to get it from him so I gave it to Elsa (my mom's dog) and she enjoyed it a lot.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Duke was being rude, and Charlie let him know it!

We have the occasional 'grumbling' and 'ugly faces' happen when one of the others gets too close to the current 'possessor' of the food toy, but it is not something I worry about, it is normal, appropriate, dog behavior, that is unlikely to escalate, if the 'rude one' pays attention and moves away.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

I love the photo! Joseph is one determined boy when it comes to getting the last of his kibble out! I tried a ball feeder (similar to the one you have for Joseph but another brand) for Bailey when he was a puppy. I figured it would keep him entertained and make him think....unfortunately Bailey is far smarter than I am as he quickly figured out that if he took it to the top of the stairs and dropped it down them all of the kibble would break and fall out and he would not have to work nearly as hard to get it all out. I had not counted on him thinking so creatively! Now when I give it to him he takes it to the top of the stairs and Jack waits at the bottom of them so that HE can retrieve the treats. They seem to understand the concept of teamwork. I have learned never to underestimate the intelligence or determination of any of my dogs.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

That is great partnership and completely funny!!!! 


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Joseph is by far the 'sneakiest' and a real 'problem solver'. I gave them all stuffed Kongs to work on outside yesterday, a fly was bothering Joseph (he is 'bug phobic' had a total 'freak out' when an ant decided to crawl on him) while he was laying down chewing at the Kong, so he picked it up, packed it into the house, into his crate in the bedroom and finished cleaning it out in there. 

Kaya has played a 'fast one' on the boys a few times, one of them would be chewing on a nylabone, (there are plenty, but she always wants the one that is being chewed) she will go to the door, asking to go out. Of course the boys push by her and run outside as soon as the door opens, she turns around and grabs the bone, takes it to bed, where she can have a good chew. 

They are way smarter than they get credit for.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Kaya is one smart gal  Duke has done something similar to Charlie and Charlie falls for it every time. It's fun to watch.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

It was Joseph's turn to go visit the e-vet for an ear infection. It wasn't easy for him, though vet visits are often stressful for any dog, he was so scared, and over threshold that it took two doses of sedative, (when one should have been enough to knock him out fairly quickly) to _almost _put him under. The adrenaline running through his system would not allow him to succumb to the sedation, to knock him out completely, even after waiting for an hour. He couldn't walk, could barely lift his head, but it didn't stop him from opening his eyes and giving a warning bark when the vet would enter the room. 
We decided to muzzle him, cover his eyes with a towel, and hubby held his head while the vet examined, cleaned and treated his ear for a yeast infection, and then gave him a shot to reverse the sedative. He was a pretty sad and tired looking boy when he finally was able to wobble his way back to the car after five hours at the clinic. He slept like a log for the rest of the day, (after getting home at 5 in the morning, we were all totally worn out), the next day he was back on his feet and he has been a absolute doll about letting us treat his ear with the antibiotics. 


Have had very few health issues with any of my dogs, so dealing yeast infection is new one for me, I did some searching, to find out the cause, and ways to prevent it from happening again. Was surprised to see how many symptoms/signs there are that a dog may be suffering from a yeast infection which can manifest itself in different ways for different dogs. 

This article may be of interest to some of you. 

Itchy Dog? It Might Be A Yeast Infection


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

We have spent the last few days in 'recovery mode', taken the time to just relax and play, and to teach Joseph to 'hold still', his choice, he was free to move away if he chose to, while I medicated his ear. Not a pleasant experience for a pup with a sore ear, but he quickly understood that I was not trying to hurt him, to rest his chin on the seat of the couch, allow me to do what I had to do for him. Followed it up with a gentle ear massage (for both sides), his head leaning into it, asking for more, gently tilting his head from one side to the other, his eyes half closed in relaxed contentment. Lots of praise for being such a 'Good boy!' and a few of his favorite treats, and we were all done in a few minutes. He wasn't quite done though, he looked at me with his sweet face, those beautiful eyes, as if to say 'Watch this!', he rested his chin on the couch, his eyes turned towards me, hoping for just one more treat. A request I could not resist!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

sweet joseph....hope your ear feels better soon sweet boy


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Thank you Jenn. Joseph's ear seems to be much better. He has a couple more days of medication, so hopefully by then he will be as good as new. Changing his diet a bit, so hopefully, we can prevent any future problems with yeast infections. He has been an absolute doll through all of this!


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

Glad to hear that Joseph is doing better.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Thank you. We have always tried to make these 'must do' things as easy as possible for him and focused giving him as stress free life, full of 'fun and games', full of 'want to', full of 'choices', which, I have no doubt, contributed to the ease with which he learned to rest his chin and 'hold still' for what I needed to do for him.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

I think that how we present any sort of "treatment" to our dogs makes all the difference in how they perceive it. I had a diabetic dog who required glucose testing (a needle poke inside of her lip) twice a day as well as insulin injections twice a day. I am certain they must have hurt her and I felt terrible that I had to do it. There was no other option, however. I never corralled her or grabbed Maggie to test or give her the shot. I would sit on the floor in the same place with all of the equipment necessary and call her. Initially she was reluctant but over time she seemed to understand that the prick of her lip and the shot allowed her to feel better immediately. Very shortly Maggie would see me sitting with the glucose meter and the insulin and she would simply come and sit beside me waiting. She was never forced, grabbed or held in place. I think that it made all of the difference. I think she came willingly because she felt she had a choice whether or not she got the insulin and, eventually realized that she felt so much better after the shot that she actually wanted it. Maybe my perception is wrong but I dog sat for another diabetic dog and that dog, like Maggie, also seemed to WANT the insulin. It did seem that they understood it made them feel better.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

That is so true, and it goes beyond those things we 'must' do, extends to all those thing we 'need' and 'want' them to do. There is no side-stepping the reality that dogs (and people, too) learn by association and repeat behaviors that are rewarding to them.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Found this blog a good read:
https://muttabouttown.com/2013/01/22/fear-when-nothing-else-matters/


This is a great article, as well. 
https://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/implications-of-punishment.php


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I am huge fan of Ian Dunbar. Well worth taking the time to listen to.

https://www.ted.com/talks/ian_dunba...m_medium=social&utm_campaign=tedspread#t-5204


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Why Is My Dog This Way, Does It Matter If We Know, and What Can We Do? - The IAABC Journal - Spring 2017

I found this to be a real interesting article. A reminder that when we get a dog, we are not 'just' getting a mix of both parents and their family history, genetically, but also the 'benefits' (and 'negative impacts') of their 'experiences' (lessons learned) in life.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks for sharing the article. Really interesting although the optimist in me doesn't want to believe some of the conclusions.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

I read this article with a great deal interest, especially with regards to the environmental impact on the puppies in utero. It was interesting to me because my girl, Gracie, is a Hurricane Katrina rescue. She was picked up in NOLA out of the 9th ward 2 weeks after Katrina made landfall. She was pregnant and had been living in an abandoned home which was partially underwater. She was, as a result, seriously malnourished and in very poor condition upon being rescued. Given these facts the article seems to indicate that her puppies (which were born a week or so after Gracie's rescue) probably endured some serious stress and malnutrition while in utero. The article led me to believe that the puppies which were born to Gracie should have been at a serious disadvantage as a result. Perhaps I am naive or just plain ignorant but I did not see that. The puppies, while extremely small and, in some cases frail, did not appear to show any other problems. Even now, over 10 years later, the owners of Gracie's puppies have not mentioned any long term effects with regards to health, behavior or temperament. While my experience and Gracie's situation are different (because we have no idea what her living situation was prior to the hurricane--for all I know she was a very pampered pet those first weeks of her pregnacy) it did seem to me that the impact of environmental factors late in Gracie's pregnacy did not seem to negatively impact Gracie or her puppies long term. I would be interested in knowing if there is a point at which environmental impact is more pronounced during the puppy's development.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I think each circumstance needs to be weighed on it's own merits, and for sure there would be varying degrees of environmental impact. I, for one, would not 'write off' a litter who came from a 'disadvantaged' mom dog. The impact of what happens after the puppies are born (nurture) also plays a big part in the future behavior of the dog, and how it perceives the world.
'Nature gives you the puppy, nurture gives you the companion dog.' A puppy born bold and outgoing, may need more help to learn self control than a less bold puppy, a fearful/timid puppy will need more help to be more confident in the world, than a less fearful puppy. 
It is what you do with what you 'have' that makes all the difference for these dogs. (imo)

I personally don't think it is as 'black and white' as is implied in the article, but more that the predisposition to ____ behavior, may be, not necessarily 'will be', inherited from either side of the family history.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

'Our expectations constantly affect our dogs. Some people believe their dogs are capable of learning tricks and advanced obedience skills, while others never attempt it because they don’t think the dogs can do it. Some dogs go from being highly reactive with other dogs to being able to walk nicely past them, because their owners felt that a change in behavior was achievable. Others will have to be tightly managed forever, because the human at the end of the leash doesn’t believe the dog can change his behavior. There are factors that we know affect the success of training and behavior modification; patience, consistency, and a gradual, incremental approach, among others. Expectations should be added to that list, as their importance cannot be overstated.'

a quote from the article 'Can Your Expectations Affect Your Dog's Behavior?' by Nicole Wilde.

We should also keep in mind that our dogs have 'expectations' of us, and rightly so, that we should 'see' them as our best friends and treat them as such. We should strive to be the kind of person our dog thinks we are.


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## G-bear (Oct 6, 2015)

I often wish I could be as good of a person as my dogs seem to believe me to be.


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## Pilgrim123 (Jul 26, 2014)

Charliethree said:


> 'Our expectations constantly affect our dogs. Some people believe their dogs are capable of learning tricks and advanced obedience skills, while others never attempt it because they don’t think the dogs can do it. Some dogs go from being highly reactive with other dogs to being able to walk nicely past them, because their owners felt that a change in behavior was achievable. Others will have to be tightly managed forever, because the human at the end of the leash doesn’t believe the dog can change his behavior. There are factors that we know affect the success of training and behavior modification; patience, consistency, and a gradual, incremental approach, among others. Expectations should be added to that list, as their importance cannot be overstated.'
> 
> a quote from the article 'Can Your Expectations Affect Your Dog's Behavior?' by Nicole Wilde.
> 
> We should also keep in mind that our dogs have 'expectations' of us, and rightly so, that we should 'see' them as our best friends and treat them as such. We should strive to be the kind of person our dog thinks we are.


Sometimes, that does not work in our favour at all. When Major came into my life, I had been spiralling more and more into PTSD, where it had become very difficult for me to go outside. However, Major is a tough-looking character and he made me feel safe enough to take him walking. I HAD to go out for his sake every day. The trouble is, he learned from me to be wary and to "protect" me from anyone or any dog coming towards us. Now he is a nightmare to walk, especially in our town where many people take their dogs out off lead and I'm darned if I can work out how to counteract that.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Pilgrim123 said:


> Sometimes, that does not work in our favour at all. When Major came into my life, I had been spiralling more and more into PTSD, where it had become very difficult for me to go outside. However, Major is a tough-looking character and he made me feel safe enough to take him walking. I HAD to go out for his sake every day. The trouble is, he learned from me to be wary and to "protect" me from anyone or any dog coming towards us. Now he is a nightmare to walk, especially in our town where many people take their dogs out off lead and I'm darned if I can work out how to counteract that.




Pilgrim, was that after you had been assaulted by your neighbor? Forgive me, if that is too intrusive a question. My only point being, that is an understandable exception.


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## Pilgrim123 (Jul 26, 2014)

Oh, yes, my neighbour left me with more than a scar on the forehead from her hammer - any movement towards me can send me into a full-scale panic attack. (When I am having a panic attack, Major leans against my legs - hard - until I am ready to go forward.) And I know that having panic attacks after all this time is ridiculous. People are no more dangerous now than they were before the attack. But panic makes you do things that are out of character (and illogical!) 
I will always be grateful for my tough little friend for giving me a reason to face the world. It doesn't stop me feeling guilty for putting Major into a position where his "job" is to keep people and stray dogs from getting too close!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

They absolutely can surpass our expectations, do those things we didn't think they could do or would ever ask them to do, if we give them a choice, and the chance, bless their hearts, they are so willing to 'try' and to 'try again'. But it is when we try to squeeze them into that imaginary 'box', that for some dogs are simply unable to fit for whatever reason, that we need to understand that we have failed to listen to them.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

We have recently begun a new journey with Joseph, a trial run of 'Sierrasil Leaps and Bounds' chews - a natural anti-inflammatory supplement. Joseph has always appeared 'stiff' in his hind end, and when he laid down, almost always on the same side, his hind legs would always be pretty much straight out to the side. Though I thought it was a bit odd, there was nothing else to give me cause for concern, he didn't seem to have any problems sitting, getting up or playing with the other dogs. Over the last month or so, I did notice that after a nice long walk/off leash run out in the country, he would seem more stiff and (presumably) sore for a couple of days, and just a tad 'grumpy'. 

I came across the chews, perfect for Joe, since he is very suspicious of pills, and quite the expert at finding them no matter how well I try to hide them or what I hide them in. He has been on the chews (3 a day/every day) for about a week, as well as a glucosamine supplement (for 3 weeks) what I am seeing is less stiffness in his hind end, easier movement, more 'happy' tail wags and a more relaxed, happier boy. Time will tell how well it works for him long run, but for now, there has been some improvement and hopefully that will continue down the road.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Found the kids a new toy! Once they figure out what to do with it, I think it will be a lot of fun for them.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Joseph had an amazing summer, accomplished a very successful five day camping trip with his Dad. After a few 'false starts', this trip was a 'meant to be' one, everything worked out so wonderfully! He is up to his usual tricks, taking advantage of 'opportunity', occasionally practicing his 'surfing' skills, practicing his 'shredding' abilities, but has been thoughtful enough to leave a little tissue on the roll! Has become a bit of a 'squatter', has figured out that whining in the wee hours of the morning will get Mom out of bed, and he can quickly move in, take over the space, and pillow too. He has discovered the comfy of the couch, when I start to wonder where he is at, 'silence' is not always the predictor of him being up to 'something good', (he has a 'talent for fun' of his own making), he can often be found sitting and watching silently out the window, observing the squirrels, the world go by, or 'blending in' with the cushions, sleeping soundly.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I think Joseph has become quite a wonderful dog in your family


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

jennretz said:


> I think Joseph has become quite a wonderful dog in your family
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 About as close to a 'perfect fit' as one can get!
Best teacher ever, gave me lots to 'work with' and to think about!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Practicing the fine art of 'blending in' with the couch. (If I close my eyes, I am 'invisible', right?)


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

What a great picture of Joseph. He looks so comfy and like he's having sweet dreams


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Joseph's favorite spot - just chillin', watching the world go by









except when he is 'blended in' on the couch after a good walk and a romp in the snow.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

He looks so comfy 


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Perfect afternoon for a 'roll around' on the bed!

Peek-a boo!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Somebody is having a good time!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Absolutely! Can often hear him rolling around up there, making 'strange' noises, totally enjoying himself!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

What Dog Training Really Is |

Came across this, and wonder 'what if'? What if we put aside the 'goals' and focus on the journey? Learning to 'dance' with our dogs, walk with our dogs, can be/is such an amazing experience.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Charliethree said:


> What Dog Training Really Is |
> 
> Came across this, and wonder 'what if'? What if we put aside the 'goals' and focus on the journey? Learning to 'dance' with our dogs, walk with our dogs, can be/is such an amazing experience.


I love this! Actually, without realizing it, that's how I've been approaching Charlie's rehab. I've made it "fun" to go into the basement where we do stairs, sit/stands (but I work in stays for the fun of it), we practice getting comfortable with the zen crate and taking turns doing touch, look, shake, etc. They both view it as a game and they're having fun. It's just become part of my morning routine.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

When spending time with Joseph and Charlie, (Kaya and Milo) too, I found 'have to' resulted in them 'pulling away' emotionally, they lost interest, obviously wanting to be somewhere else. When I turned 'training sessions' into 'play sessions' and we all enjoyed the time we spent together so much more. Learning should never be a chore, at the end of the day it is the journey we travel _with_ our dogs that we remember, we cherish, and hold dear in our hearts, so why not make it the most fun it can be?


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## teddyfitz2013 (Feb 27, 2018)

Charliethree said:


> adopt your foster dog if it meant that you had to give up fostering??


Yes. I did! I put out an email to my local Golden Retriever Rescue, Montana Precious Gold, offering to foster. They had me fill out the application. I thought it would take a year or so to hear back. One month later, I got an email! "Theo" needed a home. They put me directly in touch with the surrenduring mom, and we met up at a little lake at the half-way point. I changed his name to Teddy and he is my sweetheart. Two dogs is my limit, but I will absolutely be available to foster another goldie again, someday.

I'm also a kitten foster for my local rescue. At times I have had 8 kitties at my house! I have not "failed" with any of the baby kittens, but have been very tempted. In fact, my newest addition, Pookie 2, a solid black boy, we adopted from a fellow fosterer, because of feeling so sad at the adoption of Pookie 1, a solid black boy who stuck his tongue out hilariously, who was found under a car. Teddy didn't like him, so he has a wonderful loving new home.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Bless your heart for giving Teddy his forever home!! and for fostering kittens. They all deserve a 'second chance' for their 'happily ever after'!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

The progression of a 'smile.' 


Why do some dogs smile? In Joseph's case - anxiety, uncertainty and conflicting emotions. 

































In the last photo - there is absolutely no 'threat' in his behavior or body language, (though most would assume at a glance that there is), his ears are back, his eyes are 'smaller' than normal, his tail is low, his weight is shifted to his back end, he is not growling and he is choosing to approach.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Charliethree said:


> The progression of a 'smile.'
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That shows how much he trusts you!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Soaking up a sunbeam! and perhaps thinking of spring.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I love that picture of Joseph. Soaking up the sun. He's really a stunning dog


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

He is quite a 'compact' dude. Was thinking the other day about how white his muzzle has gotten over the years, though he hasn't lost his 'spunk' at all!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

A bit of 'doggie bliss' tracking that elusive rabbit,









interrupted by the opportunity to do another of his favorite things.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Is that Milo?


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Yes it is.

and little 'sis' Miss Kaya


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I love the sugar faces. Beautiful pups!


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## Ginams (Jan 20, 2015)

The pictures of the snow has me jealous! We have gotten next to no snow here and I would love to see how Rey really reacts to it.

Kaya's face is simply adorable!


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

What sweet sugar faces!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Naptime!! Sometimes my little lady does not seem to be much of a 'lady' at all.









and sometimes --she does!


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## jinni1980 (Jul 22, 2016)

She is so beautiful. Wish I could touch her fluffy fur!!!!!!! Say hello to you & all. 
Far away but my heart awalys think of you & your team.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Stressed Or ?Disobedient? ? Can You Tell The Difference? ? Dr. Jen's Dog Blog

As I work with Joseph to change how he feels about having a harness put on, (something he learned early on, (due to circumstances) was a predictor of 'negative' events (through his eyes), I watch for cues, signals that he 'say' this is not 'okay' - could be the look away, he may wander away, he may simply stand still, he may lay down and disengage - take a break and then return to the 'game'. If the harness is on the floor, he will approach, investigate it with great easy - change the 'picture' - pick it up, now it becomes something to worry about. I 'could' view his stress signals as 'disobedience' - after all he is not doing what I want him to do, I 'could' just put it on him with no regard to how he is feeling about it, but I choose not to, I keep in the front of my mind that he is having a 'hard time', he is telling me he is worried, but given time and the 'room' to decide he will choose to 'try again' and that is all I can ask of him.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I loved the picture of Miss Kaya enjoying her nap. Nothing better than a golden asleep with all 4 feet in the air 

Keep up the good work with Joseph. This is a great example of how to desensitize a dog to something that worries them  Love to see the progress updates.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

https://www.companionanimalpsychology.com/2017/12/how-to-make-world-better-for-dogs.html

An interesting read. We ask so much of our dogs, perhaps we need to be asking more of ourselves?


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

We had our son's dog here on Sunday, we are going to be dog sitting him in a couple of weeks, and wanted to do some introductions, since Joseph hadn't met him yet. Kaya and Milo did okay with Wicket, and relaxed fairly quickly after the initial re-introduction, though will definitely supervise their interactions - Wicket is a small dog. Joseph had lots to say, it wasn't a 'mean' bark, more of a higher pitched excited bark with wagging tail, ears were relaxed but his pupils were huge so he was definitely stressed!! He did lay down and watch Wicket from a distance, wasn't taking treats from the hand, but was 'aware' enough to notice when the treats hit the floor, and ate them. We didn't allow Joseph to get too close, won't until he can be a bit calmer and has a 'thinking brain' in his head!! 

Joseph has been so good when seeing other dogs when out on walks he gets a little anxious, but remains a 'thinking' dog who hasn't reacted, even to dogs barking at him, in a long, long time. We did take the time to plan ahead for his intro to Wicket, safety being a priority, Wicket in a safe place, Joseph on leash. We allowed Joseph to see Wicket very briefly in the beginning, then moved Joseph out of sight of him, got him calmed down, allowed him to 're-set' then we tried again, progressing to where Joseph could lay down (across the room) and watch him, without getting 'antsy' any time Wicket moved. 
It is a process, we are realistic, understand well that it is going to take some time, but are very proud of Joseph, and pleased with how things went this first time.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I look forward to seeing the updates. This is helpful info for folks looking to introduce dogs 


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Somebody is 'talking' to me....


'Why don't they believe me? There IS something up there for me.'









'I am telling you there is!!'








'Let me show you, it is right there!!'









Counter surfing includes the fine art of persuasion!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Joe, Joe, Joe.....tell your Mom to feed you. She is clearly starving you ;-)


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

jennretz said:


> Joe, Joe, Joe.....tell your Mom to feed you. She is clearly starving you ;-)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, he is clearly in need of an extra meal or two!

He is built like a tank, though he would have me believe that underneath all that fur and fluff, is a skinny and hungry boy!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

He has clearly given up all hope of a second breakfast.

(or he is thinking there is no point in 'talking' to me)


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

We had a 'magic' moment yesterday, Joseph and I. We were out for a walk, and got a bit of a surprise. Across the street a lady suddenly appeared to get into her car, Joseph saw her before I did, gave a couple of 'woofs', he didn't 'react' or yell 'Get off my block!' , he just let me know someone was there. I said to him 'What are you making all that noise about?' (then I noticed the lady standing by her car) as we walked further away. Once we were down the street a short distance, we stopped and turned around, Joseph sat quietly, eating treats while we watched the lady get in her car and drive away. 

We plan for the 'what if's', for the surprises, and try to avoid situations like this, but when it happens, it is so nice to know Joseph can handle it without panicking! So proud of him!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Miss Kaya has turned 10 yrs. old this week, where does the time go? Seems like 'yesterday' she was barely an armful with a mouthful of puppy teeth. 

Beautiful heart, a wonderful soul and an amazing best friend. 











with big brother, Milo, at 8 weeks old.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Happy Birthday beautiful Kaya


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## Piper_the_goldenpuppy (Aug 26, 2016)

Happy Birthday Kaya! I love that picture of her, there is so much wisdom in her eyes.


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

I can actually see her beautiful soul in her eyes. Happy birthday sweet sugar face!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Has been a busy day for Joseph, time for a nap in the sunshine (before the snow comes (again)).


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Love how content he looks 


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

We had an extra long, extra fun play/training session - wore him right out!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

The Problem with Treating a Dog like a Pet


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Thinking about a nap...









Eyes wide open to possibilities....


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Smooches to Joseph 


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Aww Joseph.....he looks great.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I think he was giving you a look to say, please stop taking pictures so I can take my nap lol

Such a sweet boy!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

So, so proud of our boy!! We had been asked to dog sit while our son and his family went on a holiday for 10 days, hesitant to say yes at first, since we had not introduced a new dog into our home since adopting Joseph, we knew it was going to be hard on him (likely both of them). We got it together, got the equipment set up - crate and x-pen, baby gates in place, a few days ahead of time, let all the dogs investigate, check it out. Oh Milo!! was so excited, he thought we had brought him a new friend when he saw the crate, he loved 'fostering' those pups years ago, and always wanted to be first to see who was in that crate on arrival and to say hello. 

We made a plan - always have a plan-- A, plan B, and C if need be. Management to begin with, number one priority - keeping everyone safe, training - how we were going to work with Joseph to slowly introduce him to this new dog. 

Wicket, a small dog, nervous and upset, this was the first time he had been left, he wasn't too sure of me, especially without his Mom by his side, nor the turn his life had taken. It took a few days for him to decide that even though I was 'NOT the Momma!' I was okay! 

When he arrived, we set him up in the x-pen, gave him some time to settle in, before bringing Joseph, who had been waiting not so patiently to see what was going on, out on leash. Needless to say, over excited and over the top, Joseph gave Wicket a rowdy, noisy 'welcome'. Interested in that small thing over there, he lay by baby gate, across the room, barked, whined, play bowed, and in few minutes was quiet and just watched as Wicket offered multiple calming signals. Later that evening Joseph, on leash, settled on the floor beside his dad across the room from where Wicket was. 

As the week progressed, we practiced a careful routine of crate and rotate, gradually increasing length of exposure, Joseph became calmer more settled, and Wicket became much braver, and little dog 'sassy' to boot in his safe place. Then we began decreasing distance, walking Joseph past the x-pen set up, with a goal of him being able to approach calmly, and to 'meet' Wicket in a safe way. 
We always made sure, double checked to ensure all the safety measures were in place in case 'management fails', but it did - just once. Wicket was safely in the x-pen since it was Joseph's turn to be out, the baby gates were closed to allow Joseph some freedom and so that he could see Wicket but not get too close. It happened, hubby inadvertently left one of the baby gates open, as soon as I noticed ' Uh oh - where is Joseph?' at first I thought he was in the other room with his dad, then a quick check - there was Joseph sitting outside the x-pen, quietly watching Wicket! I gently encouraged Joseph away, Wicket was not comfortable with him being so close, with a 'Leave it, come here Joseph!' , he calmly got up and came to me, and we left the room.

Though they did not physically meet, Wicket a little short on doggie protocol - no matter how big you 'think' you are it is not a good idea to get sassy or growly with big dog! and Joseph, though was doing very well, they were not, and we were not, ready to make that 'leap of faith', though given more time to adjust, it could be done. They did progress to being in the same room, for varying lengths of time, without any upsets or going off- either of them, over the 10 days. A reminder to keep the expectations realistic, give them space, give them time! 


Hello Wicket.











No doubt an experience that was a bit stressful on all of us, we learned a lot, what to expect, Joseph learned a lot too. We were prepared, had planned well, management and teaching scenarios in place, it all worked out very well! 

Joseph needs a nap, time to 'decompress' after all the work he put in!









You never know what they can accomplish if you don't give them opportunity to try!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks for sharing that story. So helpful.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

We have decided that life is just not the 'same' without a little bit of border collie spunk and sass in it. (Thank you, Charlie! for helping us learn that!!) So after much consideration, deliberation, and personal 'coming to terms' (it was not an easy decision to make), we have set the wheels in motion to bring this little guy home in a couple of weeks!

Meet 'Cache' (5 weeks old)


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Absolutely adorable. Cache is going to have a great life 


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Congratulations, so very happy for you!
Cache is so adorable.......going to be fun watching him grow and hearing about his adventures.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Thank you! It has been a 'while' since we have raised a pup, going to be interesting (who is taking the night shift?) and a whole lotta fun!


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## Piper_the_goldenpuppy (Aug 26, 2016)

Congratulations! I'm so excited for you, and can't wait to see more pictures of Cache! Part of me has always wanted a border collie


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Our little Cache arrived a bit sooner than we expected, but he has settled in very well. House training has been going quite nicely, taking advantage of his natural desire to not mess in his bed, we head outside as soon as he lets me know he is awake or whines to let me know it is 'time to go'. Practice makes perfect! 
Keeping mind that everything, every sight, every sound, every thing is new to him, though understandably scared of so much new, he has adapted so very well. Barking dogs, a signal to him 'danger' out there send him scurrying for the safety of a hiding place under the picnic table, or into the house. But watching him come right out to have a look around once the barking has stopped, the coast is clear, is fascinating to see. 

Watching him interact with the other dogs is quite amazing, the signals he gives and how they listen to him, is truly fascinating. The lessons the older dogs are teaching him will be invaluable later in life, respect -don't be rude - 'don't hang on my tail, don't try to take my bone or toy or I will let you know, I will growl, I will even show my big teeth, and snark at you, (but I won't hurt you) if you choose to be rude and persist in your silly antics.' life lessons from big brother Milo and big sis, Miss Kaya. 

Joseph is having a more difficult time, new is scary for him as well, 'What is that little thing?' so we work slowly to make sure things go well. Lots of treats, lots reassurance, in time things will be fine.


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

What a cutie. I missed the post that you were getting a puppy. I'm glad you are filling your heart with a new pup to love and helping Joseph to do that also.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

What wonderful pictures! Looking forward to more updates as Joseph and Cache develop a relationship.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Cache has been trying his paw at a few 'careers' .
He has been a happy but busy little man!

'Exterminator' - watch out bugs!!








Fetching the coffee!








Exercise instructor - how to properly use a Jolly Ball!








Choosing just the right stick to chew!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

What a smart boy! So stinking cute 


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## KKaren (Oct 29, 2014)

Welcome Cache!! You are a cutie. Congratulations ... I'm so happy for you and love the pictures


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## LynnC (Nov 14, 2015)

Oh My Gosh!!! Cache is such a cutie patootie  I'm so happy for you, congratulations! A big hug to big brother Joseph.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

It has taken some time for Joseph to get used Cache, but last night he was watching TV with his Dad, and then decided watching Cache sleep was a much better idea. He chose to go over and lay beside the ex-pen, then chose to leave quietly once he was done.









I am awed at how relaxed Joseph looks. Thrilled that he has taken one more step closer to accepting Cache, and in time, they can become friends.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

duplicate post


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

A rare and magic moment!

'You've got a friend in me.'


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Oh my goodness. That photo is precious


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Pictures*

Love the pictures!!


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## Piper_the_goldenpuppy (Aug 26, 2016)

Those photographs are so sweet! Cache is absolutely adorable.


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## KKaren (Oct 29, 2014)

Charliethree said:


> A rare and magic moment!
> 
> 'You've got a friend in me.'
> 
> View attachment 802849


I love this picture. They look like they are getting to know each other  , getting to like each other.... so great.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Sharing secrets.










How to....









roll in the grass.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Great pictures, he is so cute and getting big......can't believe how much he's grown. 

Love seeing the two of them together.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Morning conversations.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Thaat top picture is my favorite


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

It has been amazing to watch the relationship develop between them. She has been so incredibly gentle and patient with him, teaching him how to be a polite and gentle friend. While still setting the boundaries, letting him know that there are some things even a puppy is not allowed to do.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Cache at 9 weeks old. 
Is well on his way to being house trained, consistently asking to go out. Sleeps through the night and is so eager to learn a whole bunch of polite puppy skills, and how to fit into our world.

Am fascinated by the doggie skills that he arrived with ,( 'survival skills', if you will) - anything new is deemed unsafe and sometimes scary- worthy of a dash for a hiding place. If it is stationary, approach with 'caution', take a sniff, perhaps give it a lick, if it still is 'okay' - may as well try to taste it. The body language already in place, instinctively displayed in an effort to insure that he is safe, treated kindly and gently by the other dogs.

So much to do, so much to experience, to process and store in the memory banks for future reference!! Every sight, every sound, every taste, every thing that he does - this works, this does not - all recorded in that amazing puppy brain.


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

It's amazing how equipped to survive they are. Cache has really grown. He's a cutie.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

He thought he had her pinned, 'down for the count'. 









but she wasn't quite ready to give up yet!








Watching these two play their games is fascinating and heart warming to see.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

All dressed up and ready to go on a journey of discovery!! So much to see and do!!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Cache is so handsome


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

'Life skills' / 'Skills for life'! 

'Go to your mat.' (and settle)









' I know the treats are up there!'


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Really good on the training 


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

I can't believe how much he's grown, smart and cute....


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

A little 'yoga' to begin with - 'downward dog'....








then a little playtime with the dog next door!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Cute Cache 

Love seeing the updates 


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

The morning conversations continue, sometimes Miss Kaya has to speak a little louder so that sassy Cache will listen. 

























Every puppy's dream come true, nothing like a shoe to chew!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I’m amazed how well Kaya and Milo are accepting Cache


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I am in awe of how well they are adapting to the little 'dynamo'. I do wish Kaya would be a little 'tougher' on him, but I expect that will come at the right time. Was watching them play yesterday, what a wonderful thing to see - they both had a blast. Milo, I think of him as the 'Grumpy Grandpa' - doesn't let him 'get away' with annoying him with nips to his pants and heels, 'roars' at him when he has had enough! but is accepting of Cache's attempts to play a little nicer. I see hints of amusement on Milo's face, and can almost read the thoughts that some day I may play with that little scamp!
Joseph is still not sure what to make of Cache, but he is getting better all the time! He loves to watch Cache when he is sleeping, but when Cache is awake and moving around, he is concerned and stares, but still eats his cookies!! Cache is a little wary as Joseph has 'yelled' at him before, but I have no doubt in time, things will work out just fine!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Always 'up' for a challenge, willing to learn something new. 

Joseph learning how to walk across a 'bridge'.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Cache*

Cache is so adorable!! I MUST HAVE missed the story on when and where you got him! Is he a rescue? Joseph and Kaya seem to love him!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Cache has a spot of his own in the 'Other Pets' section.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/nico...hand_b_4213852.html?ncid=engmodushpmg00000003

Joseph was one of those dogs that one might think needed a 'heavier hand', but, what he got was a 'hand up', help from a certified canine behaviorist who helped us to understand what the reason for his behavior was. To understand though he looked and sounded 'aggressive' on the outside, inside he was terrified and needed a gentle 'touch', understanding and compassion to lead him on his journey to learning to trust in the world. He has come such a long ways, so proud of him!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Charliethree said:


> https://www.huffingtonpost.com/nico...hand_b_4213852.html?ncid=engmodushpmg00000003
> 
> 
> 
> Joseph was one of those dogs that one might think needed a 'heavier hand', but, what he got was a 'hand up', help from a certified canine behaviorist who helped us to understand what the reason for his behavior was. To understand though he looked and sounded 'aggressive' on the outside, inside he was terrified and needed a gentle 'touch', understanding and compassion to lead him on his journey to learning to trust in the world. He has come such a long ways, so proud of him!




Good article! So glad that things are going well with Joseph.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Great article, I don't think any dog should ever need a heavier hand..... 

Enjoying the pictures of Cache, he's getting so big. Fun seeing him playing with his fur siblings and hearing about his adventures.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Joseph as a pup, about one year old, ready to begin a new life.









Eight years old, and living and loving life the way it was meant to be.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Undeniably one handsome dude! Those eyes mesmerize!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Joseph is very handsome


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

Joseph is so handsome! Love his eyes!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Never too old to play!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Looks like Joseph was having a great time!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

There is still some 'puppy' (actually lots of 'puppy') left in that boy!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

'When I look into the eyes of my dog, I see a wonderful friend, I feel his beautiful soul.'


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

*Patience!*

Things didn't work quite as well as we hoped when we brought Cache home early this summer. Joseph was not happy, confused and anxious about this new little life we had thrust upon him (from his perspective), but we were (and are) committed to making this work. As Cache grew and became more 'dog' like, with lots of patience counter conditioning, desensitizing, in time they were able to be in the same room without Joseph becoming upset. Over time 'upset' turned to wanting to play, over time as Cache moved through the phases of puppy hood, a fear period and a couple of 'time outs' to recover from injuries, we patiently waited, continued the counter conditioning until we felt the time was right, the time was perfect to allow an off- leash session in the back yard. We seeded the yard with kibble, lots of kibble, hoping that head down, sniffing and walking would help keep things calm and moving forward. I took Cache out first, then hubby brought Joseph out on leash. Being on leash, restrained, Joseph quickly began to escalate, the leash was released, Joseph quickly relaxed and with a quick 'Find it' cue, Joseph nose to the ground, sniffed and searched as Cache sniffed and searched on the far side of the yard. Soon they were circling, weaving closer and then creating distance as they were feeling their way, taking their time getting to know each other in a whole new way. Soon the search for kibble turned to play, to chasing, running, much like a game of tag. We gave them some time to play and then ended play session before things could escalate, get out hand. 

Five months of preparation, five months of waiting for the right time, of crate and rotate, in order to prevent and accident, five months seems like a long time, but we were committed to this being a success. Patience, watching body language, watching responses, trusting the 'gut', trusting the head and the heart to know when to take a leap of faith and give them a chance. The road to success, carefully traveled, knowing that trying to rush into this meeting was not an option, knowing that we had but one chance for this to go right. I am so proud of Joseph, he has been such an amazing dog, this hasn't been easy for him, but we knew in our hearts, given time, everything would work out just fine.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Way to go Sarah! So happy this went well


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

Great job. I am happy Joseph was able to be comfortable with Cache.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

.... play time! They had a blast!!

Set them up for success!!!


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Great seeing Joseph and Cache having fun together.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

We have been giving the boys (Cache and Joseph) more opportunities to just get used to each other and play. Hubby was home from work today, so we decided to see if the boys would play - and boy did they ever!!. Took Joseph out first, seeded the yard with a bunch of kibble, then brought Cache (and Kaya) out, Joseph didn't really pay any attention to Cache but once the kibble was found they played so nicely! They were playing a 'cat and mouse' game, Cache knows that Joseph won't follow him up over the wood pile so he was running back and forth for a bit - frustrating Joseph, who was following him from side to side trying to keep up with him. Then they played a bit of chase and had some bitey face fun. 
We also had Kaya and Milo out there, were a bit hesitant to put the four of them together, Milo can be a bit of a 'bull', and Joseph can be a of a 'fun police' - 'nobody plays if they are not playing with me' but it worked out fine. Cache did try to play with Kaya but Joseph walked between them 'splitting' them up, then he circled Kaya preventing Cache from trying to play with her again. Joe can be a bit of a fun 'spoiler' but all in all - it was pretty amazing to see. Once they were done playing they were both completely tuckered out and in need of a good nap! 

The 'wood pile'...


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Never forget to celebrate the 'small stuff'! 
Given a chance they may surprise you with what they can do! 
Stay patient - set them up for success! 









































Take it one day at a time!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

It has been a while, a passage of time filled with both - success and set backs but we continued to take it-- one day at a time. As much as we would like to have allowed things to take their own path, believing that Joseph and Cache could indeed become good friends, circumstances required us to keep them separated once again. Cache needed a surgery, that he had in early January, that would restrict his activities and no playing with other dogs for the following few months. It was frustrating for both Cache and Joseph, they had just started to interact and become real friends. Once Cache was healed and given the go ahead to resume a normal young dog's life, we started the process of reintroducing them again. For Joseph a dog in the yard, is a lot different than that same dog who had spent the last few months in the safety of an x-pen when Joseph was out and about, they had spent a lot of time together in the same room, playing as best they could separated by the x-pen bars - frustrating for both of them.

Out in the yard we played the 'find it' game (or 'feed the chickens' as I call it) kibble thrown far and wide, head down searching for kibble allowed them to be in the same space, to give each other space, (as they felt it was needed), and helped to keep the energy levels down - keeping them in thinking mode, and allowing them to 'be dogs' - choose their space and distance and see each other without directly interacting. It was tense, the first time, I will admit, we watched carefully for signs of things going south, Joseph was indeed stressed/anxious about this 'new' canine in his space, his tense body language spoke volumes and he was a bit vocal and Cache paid careful attention to it all, respectfully gave him room and kept his distance despite his desire to play. The time was right, Cache went and 'hid' behind the lilac bush, Joseph stopped what he was doing, those kibbles were getting harder to find, went and stood about 10 ft. away from Cache and offered a tentative play bow. Cache didn't move, so Joseph turned and walked away, as soon as Joseph's back was turned, Cache understood he was look at the 'safe end' of a dog, and rushed out from where he was hiding running right past Joseph - well!! game on, Joseph took up the chase!! We let them play for a short while, then decided it was time for them to take a break - they were winding up - Cache was thoroughly enjoying the game, Joseph was getting frustrated - so hard to keep up with that young pup! The sparkle in Joseph's eyes and the smile on his face said it all, they were on the right track! 
Over the next few play sessions out in the yard, always starting with 'feed the chickens' and using the 'find it' cue to distract and redirect when/if things were beginning to escalate, the chase games gradually changed to more contact, more up close interactions and soon wrestling and the gnashing of teeth in a game of 'bitey face'. In the house we continued to keep them separated, wanting to give them as much time as they needed to be comfortable with each other outside, before changing the picture and allowing interactions in a confined space. Always wanting to ensure as much as possible that the dogs had enough room to choose a distance they were comfortable with, and not pressured to interact, and an escape route if 'escape' should become necessary. When we felt they were ready, things were going smoothly outside, and they had learned how to play with each other, we decided to give it a chance, and see how it would go in the house, they did wonderfully! still wanting to play, but in a lower key - thankfully! 

Sometimes wishes do come true! My one wish for Joseph was to have a happy, fulfilling, normal as it can be for him, dog's life, and to have a buddy who wanted to play as just as much he did, his older housemates were not quite up to that task. My wish and Joseph's wish has come true! Our mornings are rocked with playtime, and we are loving it. Wrestling on the bed, bitey face in the kitchen, on the couch, until they are tuckered out and nap time kicks in. We have reached a milestone, traveled a journey comprised of patience, courage, trust, love and commitment, Joseph tried so hard, to keeping things headed in the right direction, to realize that what was once a simple wish, has come true for Joseph! 

We learned a lot over the years, Joseph taught us so much, we learned to listen, to hear the 'dog speak', to accept and love him for 'who' he is and to respect that there are just some things a dog may not ever be comfortable with, and to focus on helping bring comfort/acceptance for those things that we could help Joseph with. Staying mindful not to 'blame the dog' - he was having a hard time, careful to work through the process of mark and reward the behaviors we liked, having patience enough to forgive the mistakes, and help him get it right, (works brilliantly for any dog) was key to getting to where we are today. Committing to having the patience and strength to allow him the time and space to 'let the dog decide' took a leap of faith, and to 'try again' should things not work out as planned was a requirement that needed to be met. It was a lot of work for Joseph, he hung in there like trooper! We are so proud of him, he is indeed a normal dog, with a huge and brave heart, who has worked so hard to have a chance to live a normal and good dog's life and he deserves just that! 

For those of you are living with a dog, your best friend, who is having a hard time, whether it be fears, reactivity, or simply having difficulty understanding what you are asking of them, be patient, be kind, that is all they really ask of you, if they get it wrong, forgive them and help them get it right, then let them know they are truly brilliant and good dogs!!. Your journey together may take a little longer than expected, it may follow a different path than you expected, it may have it's bumps along the way, but in the end you will learn so much from each other, you will have a much better understanding of a dog's life 'through your dog's eyes' and to be as patient and understanding of them as they have been of you! 

It is the journey that matters! Ours has been a long one, but worth every moment, every step - no regrets!!


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

These pictures are so great I am so happy to see Joseph having fun and enjoying playtime with Cache. He's living the life a dog was meant to have thanks to your patience and help. I also appreciate the encouragement to be patient and teach your dog rather than reacting negatively when they don't get it right.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

This is momentous! Way to go Sarah 


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

This is fantastic, enjoyed reading about the process, the pictures are really great.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Morning conversations..... so amazing to start the day like this. 


























...every dog's story deserves a happy ending.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

Love seeing these updates 


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## LynnC (Nov 14, 2015)

Joseph and Cache are so sweet together  . Love seeing your updates!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

It has taken some time, but well worth the journey!!

Kind of funny how, not so long ago, after months of keeping them separate, and hoping they could/would find a way to be friends, now I have to separate them so they are not playing on the bed at 5 a.m. and waking up hubby. 

I think they are both very happy, and we are thrilled with how this has worked out! A 'new normal' for all of us, Cache has another play buddy, and Joseph has a play buddy who can and will play as much as he wants to. Kaya and Milo are thankful that Cache has someone else to play with too, they do play with him, but his energy level surpasses their's by far!


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