# Hague Berry Farm



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Could you post the parents' registered names? I don't see a website and there are no dogs on k9data that have an owner named 'Hague'.


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

I found a Hague Berry Farm on breeders.net. Is this them? Breeders.NET


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## Coopsmom (Jan 13, 2015)

I don't see anything on k9data with the prefix "hague berry" but found them advertising on a few pet for sale sites. If you put a deposit down, I am curious as to what you were told about the dogs, whether they have health clearances, etc. Since this seems to be the first time you're posting to this forum, it would also be good to read the "stickies" in this particular forum as they provide a wealth of information re: what you should look for in a breeder, the importance of health clearances, etc/


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## Jentobey (Feb 22, 2016)

Yes. That's them on breeders.net.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

registered names of parents?

I don't see any Hague Berry (which may not be the prefix they use) on OFA either.
Generally good breeders don't advertise on those sites, but there are exceptions.


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## BlazenGR (Jan 12, 2012)

I found Sue Hague:
Sadie Lillie Of The Berry Farm
Sir Rusty The Great VIII

No publicly available health clearances.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

So with that- I would make the leap that there are no clearances on the parents.
OP- if those are the parents, or not the parents, let us know!


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## Jentobey (Feb 22, 2016)

Wow. You guys are great. I looked on K9data but for some reason Hague would produce no search results for me.
I sent in a deposit to this lady. Take a chance. 

I bought my last dog, Sandy, from a similar type breeder in VT (can't remember the name though)..and she ended up being the best dog I've ever owned. She passed away 6 years ago at the age of 11 from cancer. I miss her a lot and I can't wait to get another.

Thank you greatly for the help!!!


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## Jentobey (Feb 22, 2016)

Actually - Just looking at her last email to me...the dogs names are: ruby and samson


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## SunGold (Feb 27, 2007)

Proceed with caution....


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## SaraE (Mar 1, 2016)

We purchased our golden from her about 4.5 years ago and she is the absolute best dog! Chloe is great with everyone - dogs, other animals, people, children - even people who don't like dogs love her! We are hoping to get another one soon!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

How much do they charge for puppies? And do they sell to anyone with no questions asked...?

I'm thinking that will probably answer another question I have...


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## BlazenGR (Jan 12, 2012)

Jentobey said:


> Actually - Just looking at her last email to me...the dogs names are: ruby and samson


I always recommend that people ask for the registered name of the dog and the registration number so that health information can be researched on the OFFA.org site. Call names are useless unless she has the information on a website.


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## Moose15 (Feb 12, 2015)

SaraE said:


> We purchased our golden from her about 4.5 years ago and she is the absolute best dog! Chloe is great with everyone - dogs, other animals, people, children - even people who don't like dogs love her! We are hoping to get another one soon!


Do you happen to have any pictures of your Chloe? Are the parents OFA certified?


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## Coopsmom (Jan 13, 2015)

SaraE said:


> We purchased our golden from her about 4.5 years ago and she is the absolute best dog! Chloe is great with everyone - dogs, other animals, people, children - even people who don't like dogs love her! We are hoping to get another one soon!


Since you've purchased from this breeder in the past, can you answer the questions as to whether the breeder completes the 4 standard health clearances as suggested by the GRCA? do you know anything else about the breeder's practice in terms of how they choose which dogs to breed, etc?


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## SaraE (Mar 1, 2016)

Moose15 said:


> Do you happen to have any pictures of your Chloe? Are the parents OFA certified?


Yes all the dogs they had were certified!


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## SaraE (Mar 1, 2016)

Coopsmom said:


> Since you've purchased from this breeder in the past, can you answer the questions as to whether the breeder completes the 4 standard health clearances as suggested by the GRCA? do you know anything else about the breeder's practice in terms of how they choose which dogs to breed, etc?



I'm sorry I do not know anything about the breeder's practice in their choice of dogs to breed... we got our pup to be a family dog


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

If you could please post Chloe's parents name's it would be helpful. Unfortunately there are many people out there who falsify documents. It is Saddly very easy with the quality of computers and printers now. What can't be faked is the certifications being publically verifiable on OFAs database. 

It is likely Chole's parents are related to any puppies they are producing and if not the parents to the puppy the OP is looking at could be aunts, uncles or grandparents.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

SaraE said:


> Yes all the dogs they had were certified!


If the dogs were certified, then if you have the parents registered names, you could look the dogs up on OFFA.org. Enter the registration names in to check if the dogs actually have clearances.

Rule of thumb is it's impossible for dogs to have OFA cleared Hips and Elbows without it being publicly accessible on the database. 

If a breeder tells you that they used PH instead... 2 things. It's technically not for sure a clearance, because PH doesn't pass/fail hips - and you can have a PH thingy with a dog who has hip dysplasia (most people don't understand PH percentages and can be fooled). And then PH doesn't do elbows. 

Eyes and heart - these things aren't always sent in to OFA, since the clearance isn't actually done by OFA, but by the specialist (eye specialist, cardiologist) who do the OFA's on the dog. A lot of people may hang onto the clearance and file at home. <= Honestly though, if you are breeding a dog, you should send the forms in.

Another thing is hips/elbows can't be fully cleared until after 24 months. If somebody breeds a young dog and tells you that they got full clearances, they are trying to mislead you.

I'm typing this out, because I think a lot of people may hear a dog got checked out by the owner/breeder regular vet - and think that's all that's required. 

I don't think it really matters where people buy puppies. I just want them to know the difference between a litter that has full clearances and due diligence (the breeders selectively breeding vs breeding whatever they have over and over) behind it as opposed to a litter were the breeders may be breeding whatever dogs they have. 

Literally, if people don't know how to look up clearances - they could be buying a puppy where one or the other parent has hip dysplasia or cataracts.

And then if people don't know how to look up pedigrees - or ask to see the pedigrees for the puppies before buying (and hey - we have k9data for that reason, we don't have to wait until the exchange of money before seeing the super secret pedigrees!) - they might be buying a puppy where it was a father/daughter breeding. Or a brother/sister breeding. Or otherwise very closely related breeding.

You go with a good breeder - and you may still have very close breedings like that - but you also have clearances and very selective breeding at work. Or should be. 

Other thing - I brought the cost of the puppy and ease of purchasing for a reason. I know a lot of people balk about paying a couple grand for a puppy. And they might not pass spec with most breeders who are selective about the homes they sell to. 

I wouldn't have it any other way - and honestly, I think the worst part about some breeders is they sell puppies to improper homes and those puppies are the ones you see on craigslist after they've hit 3 or 4 and it's time for a new puppy or the owner is having a mood change. Or who end up having puppies that wind up on craigslist.

That said, I do get why some people end up buying puppies from wherever they can get one for cheap or easy. And that really is what I think is a prime factor as far as why people buy puppies from some places...


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## BlazenGR (Jan 12, 2012)

I know a lot of people are put off by the cost of a well-bred puppy, and I understand. I was in their shoes many years ago, and it is how many of us got into the breed.

I tell companion homes that they should be MOST concerned about health clearances, much more than someone "in" the breed. If I buy a puppy know that it's parent(s), grandparent(s), etc are missing key clearances, or failed a clearance, I know what I am getting myself into, and know that it could come back to bite me in the butt. However, companion homes should be the people who should be able to worry a little less. No, there are no guarantees, but we do clearances for a reason: they have been proven, over time, to decrease the odds of producing offspring with health problems. It seems counter intuitive, but it makes sense. Of course, there are always those who get very lucky and buy a puppy on the first visit, parents have no clearances, and they go merrily on their way and have few problems. Unfortunately, the alternative is how many of us learn, and that is how I met one of my oldest dog friends. We both bought dogs who were dysplastic, they had the same father, and we met in an obedience class. Live and learn.

I have probably explained this a 100 times in the last 10 weeks as I try to place the last puppy in the perfect home, and I will continue to tell people the same thing for every litter I breed. Yes, you might get lucky, or you might end up with a puppy like the lab pup I saw when I was still working as a vet tech. 4 month old puppy that basically had no hip sockets, parents were registered but no clearances, because the 'breeder' was just breeding pet puppies. How do you explain that to your kids? :no:

Lesley Albin
Blazen Golden Retrievers
...and a couple of English Cocker Spaniels


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## SaraE (Mar 1, 2016)

Megora said:


> If the dogs were certified, then if you have the parents registered names, you could look the dogs up on OFFA.org. Enter the registration names in to check if the dogs actually have clearances.
> 
> Rule of thumb is it's impossible for dogs to have OFA cleared Hips and Elbows without it being publicly accessible on the database.
> 
> ...



Woah - so sorry I got an F- in puppy pedigree class:uhoh:


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## Harleysmum (Aug 19, 2014)

I think one of the problems is that people ask about clearances and get a reply like "Yes, they are fully checked by our vet or they have all necessary health checks" and think that is what is required. I have to say thank you to people like Megora and others who come on here and go through the ins and outs of it over and over again with unlimited patience. Hats off to you all.


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## Coopsmom (Jan 13, 2015)

SaraE said:


> Woah - so sorry I got an F- in puppy pedigree class:uhoh:


Not sure why you are saying that. The people posting responses here are attempting to educate the original poster who asked a question about a specific breeder. Thus far, the only information provided about the breeder is minimal in terms of helping someone make a well educated decision about buying a puppy. It's great that you got a dog from this breeder that you love and nobody is judging you or your dog. The specific practices of the breeder in question remain unclear.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

SaraE said:


> Woah - so sorry I got an F- in puppy pedigree class:uhoh:


The posts here are written with the understanding that we the posters are not the only ones who will see them. Anytime in the future someone searches this kennel this thread will come up. We believe in education, which is why we write posts with the understanding that more people and future puppy buyers will read them.

I want everyone to be able to make their best decision. In order to do that puppy buyers need to have knowledge about well bred puppies from parents with health certification. Unfortunately that information is not intuitive and not easy for most people to learn. Add to that poor breeders who will purposely mislead and/or lie to buyers about certifications, it makes navigating the waters of puppy buying very difficult.

Nothing would make me happier than to find this breeder does have full certifications on their dogs especially if their puppies are reasonably priced. If that is what you feel Chloe has behind her, you could post her parents names and we could see that. As it is, we do not know that this kennel does the testing and indicators look like they probably don't.

We actually need more breeders producing resonably priced pet puppies form health tested parents. The problem is that does not happen. The inexpensive (and sometimes not so inexpensive) pet breeders tend to not do any of the standard health testing and may instead use the wording "vet" checked. Those pet breeders who do get the testing almost always jump up to the same price or higher than good competition/show breeders (I like the new term preservation breeder it indicates the main goal of these breeders is focusing on the characteristics of Goldens and trying to improve the breed) who have dogs with generations of health certifications and achievements to prove the high quality of their dogs. 

Even if you don't post the names here, though I hope you do because it would benefit other future puppy buyers, take Chloe's parents names and type them in on Orthopedic Foundation for Animals. 

I have attached my girls certifications as an example. She has full certifications plus some additional DNA certifications as well. The core four are the hips, elbows, eyes and heart by cardiologist. Hips and elbows will show on OFA if they have OFA certifications. Eyes and heart are certified by the examining veterinarian some people choose not to pay be very minimal fee to list them as a true certification (a pet peeve of mine). Though if they can present to the hard copy of the report then the dog does have proof of the testing status.

Below you will see that the hips and elbows are shown in green, the eyes and heart in blue, with a star to show the cardiologist designation. The DNA tests in purple and her parents full certifications in grey/blue


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

LJack said:


> Anytime in the future someone searches this kennel this thread will come up. We believe in education which is why we write posts with the understanding that more people and future puppy buyers will read them.


Yep. Once you have bought the puppy and brought him home - it's a done deal. Nobody's going to tell you to take your puppy back and buy from somewhere else. Once you've given that puppy a home - that pup is a member of your family.

My post was a reminder to other people looking for puppies and or it's info for you for the next puppy search down the road (if you're buying a buddy for your dog or 12-14 years down the road). 

There are breeders out there who profit by lying or misleading puppy buyers. Even some pretty good breeders out there will imply everything is there and rave about health - and hope a puppy buyer never looks on OFA or asks specific questions. I hate dishonesty - and there are a lot of dishonest people out there. 

It may also not so much be dishonest, but ignorance - but that's why you have us beating that drum about what you minimally want to see as far as clearances and what a breeder is doing as far as what they breed, etc. 

People can't claim ignorance if the information is constantly out there either smacking them in the face or there for the general public who they are interacting with.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

[


SaraE said:


> Woah - so sorry I got an F- in puppy pedigree class:uhoh:


 Sara, No one was saying you failed pedigrees. However- the language we use in dogs is a foreign one to many puppy buyers and for that reason, less than ethical breeders can skirt what is lacking easily because the puppy person is not fluent in dog. 

I'm sure your breeder told you all certs were in order but without verification and with what we could see with our own eyes on the site and add to that the mode her puppies are sold by, it is probably not completely true. Don't blame yourself you don't speak "dog clearances" as well as experts with many years experience. I too hope you'll post the registered names of your dog's parents. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised and take back my words!


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## Jentobey (Feb 22, 2016)

SaraE said:


> Woah - so sorry I got an F- in puppy pedigree class:uhoh:


Thank you for your post. I appreciate knowing that you own a dog from that breeder. 
Are they nice people?

Unfortunately I have to look at price. I think we got my last Golden for 600, but that was in 1999 and she was the best dog!!! She passed from Cancer at the age of 11.

950, is reasonable for a Golden puppy.

I thank you all for your responses!! Greatly appreciated. 
Thank you,

Jen


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Jentobey said:


> Thank you for your post. I appreciate knowing that you own a dog from that breeder.
> Are they nice people?
> 
> Unfortunately I have to look at price. I think we got my last Golden for 600, but that was in 1999 and she was the best dog!!! She passed from Cancer at the age of 11.
> ...


I don't quite agree that $950 is reasoanble for a randomly bred dog. You likely could find a much cheaper dog produced with little other thought than having a boy and girl dog on sites like kijiji. 

In 1999 almost everything was less expensive than it is now. That $600 puppy in 1999 is probably actually close to the pricing of $1200-1400 today. Which if you dig deep enough, you can still find health certifications on parents at that price. though admittedly, $1600-2000 would give you many more options.

If money is a primary concern, and you feel you can't afford a puppy with health certifications behind them, I would suggest buying as cheep as you can and then spend money on pet insurance in case the common and very expensive to treat issues in Goldens pop up on you, like needing to replace hips or have surgery on elbows or the heart. You certainly could get luck and buy a puppy that lives till 15 with no problems for $600, but the insurance would help as in this price point you will be dealing with people who have no idea of the health statuses of thier animals and you are accepting much more risk.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

@Laura - for some people saving $500 (merely a week's pay) trumps everything else.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

Jentobey said:


> Unfortunately I have to look at price. I think we got my last Golden for 600, but that was in 1999 and she was the best dog!!! She passed from Cancer at the age of 11.
> 
> 950, is reasonable for a Golden puppy.


It may be reasonable for other breeds, but Goldens have become so popular and have developed so many health problems as a result of unscrupulous breeders trying to make money without doing the groundwork, that it probably isn't the case for this particular breed.

You paid $600 in 1999 - that is 17 years ago. The price of pretty much everything has more than doubled since then. An equivalent price today would be in the region of $1200.

The problem with getting a dog from a breeder who doesn't do all the core background stuff is that you have a much greater chance of ending up with a sick or disabled dog and very high vet's bills. There are lots of threads on this forum posted by people whose dogs are diagnosed with hip dysplasia at 6 or 7 months of age, needing expensive surgery , or who develop chronic problems requiring monthly medication. This can, of course, still happen even with a dog from a great breeder, but the chances are significantly lower.

When you buy into a popular breed, it really is worth doing your research and learning to separate the good breeders from the not so good. You might still choose to buy based on price, but at least you'll know exactly what you're paying for, what your breeder has and hasn't done, and what risks you're taking.

Best of luck!


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## SaraE (Mar 1, 2016)

I did try searching for the paperwork, unfortunately I did not find it...


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## Jentobey (Feb 22, 2016)

I have her number and email. Just no response. I hope everything is OK with her. But I can't help but have doubts either. I was looking forward to this puppy. I lost my Sandy 5 years ago.
All I was looking for was some sort of information regarding pick-up. I also don't want to lose $150 either. Some communication would be nice.



SaraE said:


> I did try searching for the paperwork, unfortunately I did not find it...


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

ceegee said:


> It may be reasonable for other breeds, but Goldens have become so popular and have developed so many health problems as a result of unscrupulous breeders trying to make money without doing the groundwork, that it probably isn't the case for this particular breed.
> 
> You paid $600 in 1999 - that is 17 years ago. The price of pretty much everything has more than doubled since then. An equivalent price today would be in the region of $1200.
> 
> ...



I agree. We paid 1K for Bayleigh 10.5 years ago. We paid 1600 for Dory this year. 


I *think* if budget is a concern(a big one) we need to look at the overall cost of the dog. Can you treat if they become ill? What if they need a life saving surgery because they swallowed something as a puppy? 


Just yesterday we dropped $400 on the Puppy and Bayleigh for a visit that included blood work for Bay. We paid over $6K when our puppy became very ill. 


Off my soap box, but please don't look for "discount" puppies. Sigh.


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## Jentobey (Feb 22, 2016)

I'm not looking for a discount puppy. I can afford a golden. Had one before. My concern was losing a deposit...who wants to lose money?...it doesn't grow on trees.

In any case..we did go up and pick out the puppy yesterday. Sue is a very nice woman...and very knowledgeable and helpful.

I would definitely buy another Golden from her in the future.


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

Jentobey said:


> I'm not looking for a discount puppy. I can afford a golden. Had one before. My concern was losing a deposit...who wants to lose money?...it doesn't grow on trees.
> 
> In any case..we did go up and pick out the puppy yesterday. Sue is a very nice woman...and very knowledgeable and helpful.
> 
> I would definitely buy another Golden from her in the future.


My apologies. I wasn't referencing you- I was speaking of the price increase of puppies over the years and referring to why goldens arent "cheap" anymore. 


Shes a gorgeous puppy! Congrats!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Jentobey - Happy to hear things worked out for you! 

Congrats on your new fur baby, she is a doll!


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## PrincessDaisy (Dec 20, 2011)

Jen, really not trying to be an ass here, and I agree with Laura that this Forum would enthusiastically welcome the chance to have another reasonably priced puppy breeder to recommend. You should do a search in the Forum for "Looking for a breeder". There are hundreds of posts yearly, most searching for breeders in a particular geographic area. 

So, did you get the parents registered names? OFA clearances?


Max


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Jentobey said:


> ...My concern was losing a deposit...who wants to lose money?...it doesn't grow on trees...


Wasn't going to add anything to this thread, everyone on the board already knows my stance on non-health tested bred litters...

But, since you brought up losing money and your deposit was $150, I just had to comment. I spend $150/month on ONE of the many medications Chance needs.  All his meds are almost $300.00 a month. Acupuncture for his elbow dysplasia runs an additional $250.00 a month. These figures don't include the blood tests he needs every 3 months because of the medications he's on.

Chance is from a breeder that does absolutely no health tests. The only difference is, is that he's a rescue. I would never have supported such a breeder. Not saying your puppy is not cute and you did what you felt was right, but for me, I could never buy a puppy unless it was backed by generations of health testing. But that's me and you are you. I hope that your puppy lives a very long and healthy life.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

$150 is a spit in the wind when you are looking at health issues!


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

Pre this board I had NO idea about this stuff. I do now and will never buy without clearances and stuff in the future. I was quite honestly naive. 

We've been super lucky with Bayleigh. Dory, not so much. Though, not sure her issue was breeder related- but in the future we will ensure we're buying good, healthy, puppies.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Prism Goldens said:


> $150 is a spit in the wind when you are looking at health issues!


$150 IS spit in the wind when it comes to dog ownership anyway. Not even talking about health issues... 

Dog food = $50 a month
Assorted chews to keep the dogs from chewing up the furniture and climbing the walls = anywhere between $11 and $50 a month (assuming I'm just buying 1 chew per golden) as the chews I buy are almost $6 each. 

That's $100 per month just like that.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Kalhayd said:


> I agree. We paid 1K for Bayleigh 10.5 years ago. We paid 1600 for Dory this year.
> 
> 
> I *think* if budget is a concern(a big one) we need to look at the overall cost of the dog. Can you treat if they become ill? What if they need a life saving surgery because they swallowed something as a puppy?
> ...



It is crazy at how much puppies have gone up in price. Jake 11 years ago was $300. His parents had no clearances but his grandparents and great grandparents all had clearances. Imagine my moms shocked face when we started looking for a new puppy. For what he paid for him would be a horrible puppy mill dog today. She was going to refuse to go look at chloes litter. We ended up paying 850. He let us have her for a little less since we would not be breeding her. Her breeder insnt what you would call reputable but took very good care of the dogs. They were well socialized with his children ect. I think as long as it isnt a puppymill and your not paying what a reputable breeder charges it's fine. They all need good homes. It's really hard when your a one dog family and your house seems empty after losing your pet. Having to wait a year is a long time.


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

Cpc1972 said:


> I think as long as it isnt a puppymill and you're not paying what a reputable breeder charges it's fine.


Why would I want to pay for a relatively cheap puppy, but then have to pay 100x that to take care of medical bills and avoidable issues? Forget about the bills, can you imagine the heartache? Your precious dog is saddled with all of these issues because of a negligible breeder. Sure maybe not all of the dogs end up with medical issues, but I don't see why I'd want to take that chance if I can stack the odds in my and the pup's favor. The reason that golden retrievers have so many health issues is partly because there are breeders who don't do clearances, who don't put much thought into the litters they produce. I'd rather pay a lot upfront, rather than pay 100x that later. 

I'm glad that your breeder socializes his dogs well and takes good care of them, but I don't think that's a good reason to breed two dogs together. If s/he has the money to take care of a litter and the mother and any other dog they own, then they most definitely have the money to get clearances done and send them to OFA. I don't see any reason not to.

Maybe i shouldn't be saying anything, but I have a big mouth.


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## Jentobey (Feb 22, 2016)

Omg people. Calm down. I can afford a dog. 150 is nothing but I didn't want to lose it for nothing.
I've owned dogs before. My last dog was a golden (with papers, clearances, etc) believe me...I KNOW how much it is. I paid for Sandy's vet visits, medications, etc etc when I was 19 all the way until she passed when I was 31. She was a very expensive dog...but worth every penny.

I am now in my late 30's...have a good state job and can well afford anything that comes my way.

I'm not a spring chicken. 

Moxie will have a great life. There's a swimming hole down the street and plenty of room to run and have fun.

The amount of judging and attacking people you dont know on here is astounding. I prob will not come back. Not very welcoming.

I wish you all well.


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## Jentobey (Feb 22, 2016)

And who said anything about this breeder not providing papers or health clearances....


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

BlazenGR said:


> I found Sue Hague:
> Sadie Lillie Of The Berry Farm
> Sir Rusty The Great VIII
> 
> No publicly available health clearances.


If the hips/elbows are not on OFA, they were not done by OFA.
It stands to reason if a breeder doesn't do hips/elbows, they likely don't do heart and eyes- but if you got copies, you could set the record straight for the future people who look at this thread and post them!


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

"Actually - Just looking at her last email to me...the dogs names are: ruby and samson"

I think this is Ruby.


Pedigree: Wizard Sent This Ruby
Orthopedic Foundation for Animals
Orthopedic Foundation for Animals


OFA Number Registry Test/Film
Date Report Date Age Final Conclusion 
GR-CA27601/12F/P-VPI	CARDIAC	Sep 30 2014	Feb 26 2015	12	NORMAL - PRACTITIONER
ELBOW	Sep 30 2014	Mar 2 2015 *	12	PRELIMINARY UAP/DJD I UNILATERAL LEFT
HIPS	Sep 30 2014	Mar 2 2015 *	12	PRELIMINARY BORDERLINE UNILATERAL RIGHT
* The OFA recommends a final hip and/or elbow evaluation at 24 months of age or older.

This may be Samson.
Pedigree: Sir Sampson of Thunder Ridge


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Per the OP's request, I am closing this thread.


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