# Crate training a 2nd dog, when the 1st is no longer crated? (Plus pics of new pup)



## ILoveMyGolden (Oct 19, 2006)

Hi Everyone!

We have had a busy week in our home as we have taken on a new puppy. Her previous owners were not allowed to keep her (in a rented apartmant, landlord said no) and through some crazy connections she landed with us.

Funniest part before I get to my actual question is she got to us because people knew us, knew we had a golden and since she was Golden X Berner they thought we might like her. We thought we'd been talking about a 2nd dog long enough, we could help this family out and at the very least give her a good start in a foster-type situation if we opted to not keep her.....well....we're keeping her. When we picked her up, we got to see that none of her is Golden or Berner.....so that was too funny, she is 100% cute though -we are thinking Collie X Shep or something? Any guesses would be welcomed!

Anyways! We crate trained Fin successfully when we was a pup and eventually moved him away from the crate (though we put it in our closet and he still goes in there to sleep sometimes!) and he has full run of the house on a nightly and daily basis when home alone.

We have begun to crate her (4 nights now) and each night she is getting worse. 

We're doing something wrong or she is too smart for her own good and knows comfier places exist curled up beside Fin outside of the crate.

I would really prefer not to re-crate Fin (we have two crates) alongside her if we don't have to. She seems to have mild separation issues, a little excessive crying when we do arrive home, and acts like being put in the crate is like being put to death each and every time.....it certainly isn't as easy as it was with Fin. She has her comfy bed in there, it's positive space (we've tried to keep it positive!) but she is getting progressively worse each night and each morning when I leave for work (I am home at lunch for them too).

Suggestions? Help? Tips?

She isn't reliable yet in the house yet. She does not use the washroom in the crate when she is in there, she is fantastic that way. She does know to go to the back door to go out and pee/poo, but of course when she gets caught up playing I think she forgets and we still really have to be on her to get her outside. I would hope to eventually move her to an xpen once she is better?

We tried gating her in our ensuite last night with Fin and with all the comfy things she likes. She promptly upped herself over the gate and my hubby and I looked at her in shock and then back to Fin who was on the correct side of the gate standing there puzzled (surely thinking....how did she do that!?). When we get home she does quickly settle and sleep anywhere else in the house, it doesn't seem like she is getting rest in the crate during the day. At night she is a while to settle, but must be sleeping, because we are too. She's up usually 2am (to pee), then down again until 6:15am or so...not bad, but she just isn't happy going in and frannnntic to get out, I have tried waiting her out to settle and sit, but it's like she feral or something wild when you reach to open it. Night time I can better get away with it, always approach when she is quiet, moment I reach to open she's frantic. Lunchtime/end of work day she is wild to get out.

I want her to be happy, but it's just not in the crate, argh.

Some pictures to fluff this post up of course  Her name is Kenzie.


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## Deber (Aug 23, 2011)

I see collie in her face and Kenzie is beautiful! With the fosters who have enriched our lives I have found some never crate. Be it their age, their backgrounds, but for whatever reason the crate was something they never trusted and actually put them back with stress. I would try, but if constant failure then usually put a bed outside the crate and left the door open so if they wanted to sleep there - fine. The housebreaking came with age and I just made sure to clean very well any accidents that happen. Amazingly our old girl (Eng. Toy) who was houstrained very well, trained the pup to go out the doggie door! She helped so many of the fosters adjust, potty train and know the ends and outs of living in a household of pups coming in and out of our lives. We have the den gated with metal gates (tall) to keep the dogs in the den when at work.

Perhaps Finn can act as the teacher and just forget the crate if you have an area you can confine them too that Finn enjoys too.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

She is beautiful!!! What a little cutie-pie!! 

I went through HELL crate-training my little foster pup Scarlett. She screamed NON-STOP - literally - the first 3 nights. I kept thinking, 'she'll quiet down soon, she'll quiet down soon" and it just went on and on. She was exhausted during the day because she kept herself up ALL night.

Um, I eventually had to get ear plugs and go sleep on the couch on a different floor. I'd set my alarm for 2am, go downstairs, wait for her to be quiet for 5 seconds and let her out. Pee, back in crate with a cookie, and then ranger and i went back upstairs onto the couch. It sucked.

During the day, we did remedial crate-training. She ate EVERY meal in there but wouldn't, unless the door was open. If the door was closed, she'd start crying. So I'd swing the door open and close, open and close, open and close until she ignored it. Then I'd hold the door closed for 2 seconds, then 3, then built up til a minute. I started clicker training her, too. Once she knew what the 'click' meant, I started throwing individual pieces of kibble in her crate. I'd say "get in", throw a piece of kibble, she'd run in, I'd click, she'd find the kibble and come back out. Repeat, repeat, repeat. I spent WHOLE meals of hers (1.5 cups of kibble) doing that. Tiresome, but effective.

Also, she only got her fav peanut butter and honey bones in there during "nap time".

Basically, I had to spend day time training her to like her crate using all the methods above. At night or when I had to go to work, she had to suck it up and just go in. I started feeding her her meals in there right before I left so she started associating "kong with food and peanut butter" with the crate. Eventually I'd pull out the kong and she'd run into her crate and wait for it. 

Eventually, it worked. She got better and better. She learned crying wouldn't work - I'd just leave and that'd make things worse because I'd take ranger with me...then she was REALLY alone. 

Oh, and I wouldn't crate finn to help her. If he's in sight, that's probably good enough. I always kept Ranger out of the room I had crated the foster pups in when i was away. Mostly for his benefit - when they cried, he'd run to the front of the crate and then lie there for hours. Talk about reinforcing puppies' bad habits!! 

If you want more ideas, you can search for my threads...I think one was called "Scarlett hates her crate!!" and filled with a lot of cussing and "help"!

Congrats on your new pup!! She is such a little cutie pie!


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## ILoveMyGolden (Oct 19, 2006)

Thank-you!!

I think we finally turned the corner yesterday....omg FINALLY.

I think she "gets it", somehow....lol. She is still insanely frantic at that moment you touch the door to let her out (which of course, if she just chilled it would be quicker and easier on us both). I don't have to carry her to the crate and place her in anymore. She gets the routine and knows when I have treats in my hand and walk to her crate that she goes in and lays down and politely waits for them.

The baby gate is a game to her now....Ranger, you would get this....she is seriously "scopey" over it when she pops herself over. It's unreal for how little she is, and how springy she is, so confinement a la room + babygate in doorway, will never work! I haven't tried, but I fear if we went higher (two baby gates tall) or xpen panels, she would climb them. She definitely needs the roof over her head in terms of confinement!

We will continue to crate and see how things go. I may one night in the middle of the night if she or I is up, take her for a pee and then leave her out of the crate to cuddle up with Fin or curl up on the bed she loves in our bedroom....and see how that goes. She definitely loves being in bed with us, but that is not happening for more than 5 minutes, and thankfully she can't jump that high....yet....she is already trying to make the jump....and failing miserably, but it's hilarious to watch.


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