# Nalyns Goldens?



## GoldenMN

Hi there! I am interested in learning more about Nalyns goldens. I have seen mixed reviews. Is anyone an owner of one of her dogs? Do you have any recommendations? Can any negative reviews please let me know what to beware of? Is she overbearing/are the contracts fair? Any information would help greatly. Thanks guys!


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## rabernet

Hi - I've moved your thread to the Choosing a Golden Retriever Breeder & Puppy forum where you are more likely to get feedback.


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## GoldenMN

Thank you!


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## Prism Goldens

There are threads on this list that cover this breeder. If you put Nalyns in the search engine they'll pop up.


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## GoldenMN

I've seen all the posts that are up, I just haven't gotten the answers I am looking for quite yet.


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## GoldInMyHeart

Since I had a horrible experience with Nalyns and Nancy Gratiot, true to my word, I cannot recommend this breeder on these forums. I sent you a PM with my whole poor experience.

I would say that what you need to be aware of is that this breeder will tell you something but will do the complete opposite. She may tell you that "yes, you will have first pick of the males" but after she has cashed your deposit and weeks pass she will then tell you "you will have first pick of the males after I keep any show male puppies".

Her one sheet of paper can hardly be called a contract. Once you enter any type of agreement with this breeder she will cash your deposit before the pups are even born and you will never in a million years see this money again NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS. Let me say it again, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS.

In my opinion, the relationship between a breeder and buyer should be a wonderful relationship that lasts the length of the dog's life. The breeder should be someone who values you as the human parent/family that will be providing a forever home to their pup. Because this breeder was not straight with me, we could never have had that type of relationship.

I would advise you to be very, very careful.

If you have any other specific questions, please feel free to post. I promised Nancy that I would tell anyone whoever asks about Nalyns that I would give her a negative review. Others may have had a positive experience with her and may be happy with their dog. My negative experience is well-documented on these forums. I would hate for anyone else to experience what we went through.

Good luck.


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## GoldenMN

Goldinmyheart - thank you for your PM. I wrote out my LONG story to share with you, but I wasn't able to send it as I am new to the forum and can't send PMs until I have posted a number of times. 

I, too, had a TERRIBLE experience with this breeder. I believe that she is a very unethical breeder and would not recommend anyone enter into a contract with her. Not only that, but she is very rude in her interactions. I did not move forward with a dog that I absolutely fell in love with because of the negative relationship with her.


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## GoldInMyHeart

I am so sorry you were not able to get the dog you fell in love with.  Do you still have your story in draft in your PM folder? I would love to hear all about it. If you still have it, please just post some quick replies to this thread over and over again until you reach 10 posts or whatever and then PM me. I am here to listen. It took me a lonnnng time to "let it go". I think it all hurt so bad because I try to live my life in an upstanding way by being honest in all situations and treating others as I would like to be treated and my experience with this breeder was the complete opposite.

Again, I am so sorry. Please know I am here to listen if you are up to sharing privately.


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## GoldenMN

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## GoldenMN

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## GoldenMN

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## GoldenMN

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## GoldenMN

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## GoldenMN

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## GoldenMN

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## GoldenMN

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## GoldenMN

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## marcyd

GoldInMyHeart said:


> Since I had a horrible experience with Nalyns and Nancy Gratiot, true to my word, I cannot recommend this breeder on these forums. I sent you a PM with my whole poor experience.
> 
> I would say that what you need to be aware of is that this breeder will tell you something but will do the complete opposite. She may tell you that "yes, you will have first pick of the males" but after she has cashed your deposit and weeks pass she will then tell you "you will have first pick of the males after I keep any show male puppies".
> 
> Her one sheet of paper can hardly be called a contract. Once you enter any type of agreement with this breeder she will cash your deposit before the pups are even born and you will never in a million years see this money again NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS. Let me say it again, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS.
> 
> In my opinion, the relationship between a breeder and buyer should be a wonderful relationship that lasts the length of the dog's life. The breeder should be someone who values you as the human parent/family that will be providing a forever home to their pup. Because this breeder was not straight with me, we could never have had that type of relationship.
> 
> I would advise you to be very, very careful.
> 
> If you have any other specific questions, please feel free to post. I promised Nancy that I would tell anyone whoever asks about Nalyns that I would give her a negative review. Others may have had a positive experience with her and may be happy with their dog. My negative experience is well-documented on these forums. I would hate for anyone else to experience what we went through.
> 
> Good luck.


Did you end up getting a puppy from them?


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## GoldInMyHeart

> Did you end up getting a puppy from them?


No we did not. As I mentioned, we desire a life-long relationship with our breeder and that is not something we would ever have had with Nancy. We lost our deposit as she refused to return it to us. We cut our losses and moved on. 

We live in another state far away. With the help of some kind gals here, we found our dream breeder AND dream boy in a state closer to ours.

Good luck to you!


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## marcyd

I would be interested in hearing more of your story if you could send me a private message. Thank you


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## GoldInMyHeart

> I would be interested in hearing more of your story if you could send me a private message. Thank you


I will be happy to do so. In the meantime, may I suggest you reply to many threads here to build up your posting count to 10 or whatever it is so that you can reply. I think you need 10 in order to use the PM feature. 

Thanks!


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## Cheysmom

I purchased a male golden from Nalyn's some 13+ years' ago, knowing nothing about her. I saw one of her puppies at a veterinary specialty clinic where I was taking my senior girl for chemo and fell in love. I must say, working with Nancy was not a pleasure, in any way. She was VERY rude, always seemed to be annoyed when I tried to contact her, although I did everything she wanted, sent in a deposit on time, etc, etc. As I said, we did purchase a male and I have to tell you, in all 35+ years that we have raised goldens (NOT bred them), he was by far the most handsome with an absolutely amazing personality. I certified with him for animal assisted therapy and he was perfect for it. I regret I didn't do it sooner, we began when he was 10. He passed away at 11-1/2 to hemangiosarcoma a year ago March (2015). His sire was a Dichi dog, Wrangler, can't think of his "proper name" right now, but you can certainly go to Dichi's site, they are in WI and do a search on him. My Cheyenne looked exactly like his father, although he was pet quality.


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## Cheysmom

and two more things about Nalyn's...I contacted the breeder Nancy when my boy died of hemangiosarcoma and she responded stating she was shocked because none of her dogs had been diagnosed with cancer....seriously? Goldens being one of the top breeds to get cancer (sadly)? Also, she accused me of causing his death because in her words "you fed him crap." I feed my dogs Orijen, switch off between 6-Fish and Regional Red. I've had them on organic fruits and veggies and supplements prescribed by a holistic vet. They are seen by a chiropractor and have been kept in top shape. She went on to tell me she is now a sales rep for some brand of dry kibble dog food and went into her sales pitch...maybe her breeding days are over???


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## marcyd

I would suggest you visit Nalyns if you are interested in a pup to find out if it is the right breeder for you. They are beautiful dogs, and well cared for.


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## GoldenMN

I did visit Nancy, and similar to the others, had a terrible experience. It reached the point that even though I absolutely fell in love with the dog we visited, I couldn't do it because I could never give her money after the way she treated me. Regardless of the situation, I will not work with or enter a contract with someone who can be so mean and rude for no reason. 

She has great dogs, they are well taken care of, but it is not worth it. Just so everyone knows, I was in contact with the CEO of life's abundance, and he under no circumstances supports what Nancy is doing by requiring the food for the duration of the dogs life. Shame on Nancy for profiting off of her lovely dogs like that. She missed an opportunity to give her dog to a wonderful loving home, but since we refused her contract she will now have to keep searching.


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## marcyd

I would view Nancy's "requirement" to continue to use that food after you bring a pup home as optional. There is no legal requirement, just Nancy's wish. It is unenforceable.



GoldenMN said:


> I did visit Nancy, and similar to the others, had a terrible experience. It reached the point that even though I absolutely fell in love with the dog we visited, I couldn't do it because I could never give her money after the way she treated me. Regardless of the situation, I will not work with or enter a contract with someone who can be so mean and rude for no reason.
> 
> She has great dogs, they are well taken care of, but it is not worth it. Just so everyone knows, I was in contact with the CEO of life's abundance, and he under no circumstances supports what Nancy is doing by requiring the food for the duration of the dogs life. Shame on Nancy for profiting off of her lovely dogs like that. She missed an opportunity to give her dog to a wonderful loving home, but since we refused her contract she will now have to keep searching.


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## GoldenMN

marcyd said:


> I would view Nancy's "requirement" to continue to use that food after you bring a pup home as optional. There is no legal requirement, just Nancy's wish. It is unenforceable.


Well, we talked to our lawyer and he said that in some cases it can be enforceable. So all I really wanted from Nancy was a copy of the contract before we drove 10 hours to come get her, and Nancy refused to get it to me before we came to pick the pup up.

Also, she was requiring me to send her order confirmations of our auto-ship order via Life's Abundance (being SUPER nit picky about what exactly was included and how the packages were purchased - I think I spent $700 with Lifes Abundance just trying to get the order right for Nancy). When I told her that I don't support profiting off of her dogs this way and that I would purchase through Amazon, she said that I can only do that if I send her monthly receipts from Amazon. 

I understand that you are defending her and that is fine, maybe you had a good experience. I certainly have not, and I do intend to share my story with anyone interested so future customers aren't hurt or put in an uncomfortable situation like mine. Can you share your positive experience or your relationship?


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## Coopsmom

I do not know this breeder, but think that a breeder who is not willing to share his/her contract prior to meeting a potential puppy owner (or upon engaging in initial discussion about a potential sale) raises a HUGE red flag for me. Many breeders post their contracts on their webpage - others send them upon request.


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## Leslie B

While I dislike the word "should" I believe that the last thing a buyer "should" do is visit the puppy and the kennel. After you have found a pedigree that you like, with ancestors that have the talent and nature that fit your purpose for the dog you should:

1. Check the clearances via OFFA or with copies of the clearances from the breeder of both parents. 
2. Review the contract for the purchase of the puppy and check it for any stipulations. Are they acceptable to you? Dog food requirements, vitamins, vaccination schedule, limited registration, housing, training, etc. There are too many possible requirements to list here.
4. Review the guarantee with an eye to what you would do if your dog happens to have a problem. A guarntee that requires the return of the dog for any remedy is pretty hard for most families. 
5. Check any references of the breeder but know anyone she gives you will be a friend or colleague. 

Then after all of the above seems to fit for you - schedule a visit. It is very hard to meet puppies and decide you don't want one.


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## marcyd

GoldenMN said:


> Well, we talked to our lawyer and he said that in some cases it can be enforceable. So all I really wanted from Nancy was a copy of the contract before we drove 10 hours to come get her, and Nancy refused to get it to me before we came to pick the pup up.
> 
> Also, she was requiring me to send her order confirmations of our auto-ship order via Life's Abundance (being SUPER nit picky about what exactly was included and how the packages were purchased - I think I spent $700 with Lifes Abundance just trying to get the order right for Nancy). When I told her that I don't support profiting off of her dogs this way and that I would purchase through Amazon, she said that I can only do that if I send her monthly receipts from Amazon.
> 
> I understand that you are defending her and that is fine, maybe you had a good experience. I certainly have not, and I do intend to share my story with anyone interested so future customers aren't hurt or put in an uncomfortable situation like mine. Can you share your positive experience or your relationship?


Sure, we visited Nalyns recently (we live 30 minutes away so it was easy to do) and she provided the contract for review. This was not a pick up visit but a first contact visit which I would urge anyone to do for any kennel they are considering. An "in person" visit offers a whole different perspective, and I felt like I had a better feel for how Nancy handles things by making a site visit since over the phone and email communication is not her strength.
I also researched the food on line and it is very high quality, so I have no problem feeding my dog that food. She made no requirement on size of order etc.


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## GoldInMyHeart

> Sure, we visited Nalyns recently (we live 30 minutes away so it was easy to do) and she provided the contract for review. This was not a pick up visit but a first contact visit which I would urge anyone to do for any kennel they are considering. An "in person" visit offers a whole different perspective, and I felt like I had a better feel for how Nancy handles things by making a site visit since over the phone and email communication is not her strength.
> I also researched the food on line and it is very high quality, so I have no problem feeding my dog that food. She made no requirement on size of order etc.


Yep, our initial conversation went well also. Once she has your deposit and you are waiting for your new FAMILY MEMBER, I suspect your impression will take a turn.

I would rather be dead than have a poor reputation in my field of choice, take money from someone and lie to them. How someone such as this can sleep at night is truly beyond my comprehension. Thanking God every day we found a breeder who is the exact opposite of Nancy Gratiot. 

Good luck to all.


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## GoldenMN

Marcy, I would love to keep in touch and hear how the rest of your experience goes. It would be interesting to know if it works out in the end for you. I wonder if the dog that you are looking at is Passion? 

Just keep me posted either way if you dont mind!


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## marcyd

GoldenMN said:


> Marcy, I would love to keep in touch and hear how the rest of your experience goes. It would be interesting to know if it works out in the end for you. I wonder if the dog that you are looking at is Passion?
> 
> Just keep me posted either way if you dont mind!


Hi GoldenMN, I can do that. She had 2 seven week old pups there, that was several weeks ago. A male and female. I don't think they were named? We are looking at her two upcoming litters, will be a few weeks yet.


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## GoldenMN

Thank you!


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## Jwalsh

Hello- I wish I would have found this thread earlier. We are another horrible experience with Nalyns. I was just wondering if any other members would be willing to share their stories. I am not looking to bash or anything of that nature but the things that women does are unethical on many levels. Lying, false promises, and stealing should not come with such an exciting time in finding a companion.


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## Jwalsh

GoldenMN said:


> Goldinmyheart - thank you for your PM. I wrote out my LONG story to share with you, but I wasn't able to send it as I am new to the forum and can't send PMs until I have posted a number of times.
> 
> I, too, had a TERRIBLE experience with this breeder. I believe that she is a very unethical breeder and would not recommend anyone enter into a contract with her. Not only that, but she is very rude in her interactions. I did not move forward with a dog that I absolutely fell in love with because of the negative relationship with her.


Hi! Any way you would be willing to share your experience. We found this forum too late sadly and after lost most and lots of heartbreak have walked away with lost money and time and no puppy. Thanks.


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## marcyd

Were you looking for a male or female?


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## Figtoria

There is a breeder in Ontario whose contract states that if you don't feed the food she recommends, her guarantees are null and void. 

I think that would be enforceable if the purchaser signed it.

I gave that one a wide berth.





marcyd said:


> I would view Nancy's "requirement" to continue to use that food after you bring a pup home as optional. There is no legal requirement, just Nancy's wish. It is unenforceable.


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## marcyd

Nancy's contract does not state that though.


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## GoldInMyHeart

Jwalsh, I have sent you a PM. I know exactly the sick feeling you have in your stomach and am so sorry. It feels horrible to not only be ripped off but to be ripped off and have no pup. Between the money she kept from me and the money she kept from you, she has quite a sizable sum of money. As I have publicly stated on this forum many times: I would rather be dead than steal someone's money. It just isn't right.


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## Jwalsh

Steer Clear. Unethical and truly scary.


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## Jwalsh

GoldenMN- would you be willing to share experience?


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## Betsy

Very interesting thread. I know Nancy has beautiful dogs. A couple at my local dog club recently purchased a male pup from her. I was surprised to hear it was a co-ownership on a pet puppy. We shall see.....he is beautiful & has a seemingly wonderful temperament. So sorry to hear of the bad experiences over what should be a really fun, exciting time.


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## GoldenMN

marcyd said:


> Nancy's contract does not state that though.


I never ended up seeing the contract because she wouldn't send it to me without me driving back out there, but I will say that even our deposit had us sign and specify that we would only feed the dog that certain food for the dogs lifetime. 

I've never been told "I work 12 hour days" more in my lifetime than in one conversation with her, and that was the reason she was not able to send me the contract. Thats bs. 

It really is a shame. There is no denying that her dogs are great. I am sad for them, they are losing out on great homes because of they way she behaves.


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## GoldInMyHeart

> I am sad for them, they are losing out on great homes because of they way she behaves.


This exactly.


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## GoldenMN

marcyd said:


> Hi GoldenMN, I can do that. She had 2 seven week old pups there, that was several weeks ago. A male and female. I don't think they were named? We are looking at her two upcoming litters, will be a few weeks yet.


Marcyd, do you happen to have an update on your situation with Nancy? Did you end up getting a puppy?


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## marcyd

Hi GoldenMN,

We expect to pick up our pup on Saturday. Nancy has had us out to visit 3 times (we live 30 minutes away) which is much appreciated since we lost our 15 year old golden 10 days ago. I'll post a pic once we bring our new family member home.


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## GoldenMN

That sounds great. I wish you the best of luck, that's exciting


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## GoldenMN

marcyd said:


> Hi GoldenMN,
> 
> We expect to pick up our pup on Saturday. Nancy has had us out to visit 3 times (we live 30 minutes away) which is much appreciated since we lost our 15 year old golden 10 days ago. I'll post a pic once we bring our new family member home.


I forgot to mention that I am sorry for your loss  

Has Nancy required that you sign up for the food or anything yet?


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## marcyd

Thank you, we miss him terribly as you can imagine.

Yes, Nancy had the food requirement in her contract we signed and I have already ordered it. Looks like good stuff.


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## GoldenMN

Did you pick up your puppy this weekend?


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## marcyd

Yes we did, here she is! Her name is Mickey and she was 8 weeks old yesterday. She has a great personality and is a handful at the same time. We are enjoying her immensely.


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## GoldenMN

adorable. I'm glad it worked out for you!


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## Prism Goldens

I'm just curious what would happen if you agreed to buy the LA food (and it IS good food, btw) but bought it from another rep?


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## marcyd

Prism Goldens said:


> I'm just curious what would happen if you agreed to buy the LA food (and it IS good food, btw) but bought it from another rep?


I don't know - the contract required that we feed our pup the LA food for the first 2 years.


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## GoldenMN

Prism Goldens said:


> I'm just curious what would happen if you agreed to buy the LA food (and it IS good food, btw) but bought it from another rep?


When I told Nancy that I don't support that she profits off of the dogs this way, I told her I would buy through Amazon or another rep. She said if I buy through Amazon I have to send her monthly receipts (seriously? she can probably use that to get the commission) and if I buy through a rep I have to buy through her. I can't even tell you how many times she sent me the link to buy through her. 

Really I just wanted to make sure she wouldn't come after me if I didn't buy the food, so I said fine I will do the food as long as the vet doesn't recommend otherwise. Then she said if the vet recommends a prescription diet that I am mistreating the dog and she would be happy to give me names of breeders of crap dogs. Such a terrible lady. 

Sorry for another rant!


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## Prism Goldens

I happen to think it is a fabulous food, really. So I asked solely from the standpoint of if the commissions were the reason or the food. 
I personally ask people to buy one bag- only because it is what I happen to feed and have been happy with- but I have had people buy through Amazon and I am just happy the dog doesn't have to adjust to a new food the same week he's adjusting to a new home! 
FWIW I am not sure if she could get a commission from an amazon receipt- I have never tried to do that, I think they have a draw for those sales being assigned to the reps. But I would bet you are right!


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## marcyd

Golden MN she just wanted to make sure her pups are fed the food she believes in. By the way, the prices on Amazon are twice what they are directly from Life's Abundance.


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## GoldenMN

Don't get me wrong, I currently have my dog on Life's Abundance and I always intended to feed my pup that food as long as there were no allergies. My problem was with the way Nancy spoke to me and the way she is so unreliable after being given a deposit. The food wasnt the determining factor either, it was the fact that she refused to share the contract with me before I came to pick up the dog. She told me to be a normal customer and read the contract when I come get the dog (I didnt want to drive all the way there to disagree with the terms and have another 10 hour trip under my belt). I also raised a red flag when I learned that I couldn't meet the mother of the 6 month old pup that I had my deposit down for because she was with her new puppies - that's too soon to breed again.

I am not going to share emails on this thread, but she was VERY rude, very accusatory, made very little sense in any of her emails, and after we told her we were no longer interested she sent me an email FROM THE DOG, signed the dog, and with a photo of the dog. 

In any case, sounds like people are having different experiences. I have seen more bad than good, and I will continue to share my experience with anyone who requests it. Whether or not her dogs are great, there are other breeders out there who have great dogs and are great people themselves - those are the people who should be getting good business.


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## GoldenMN

Prism Goldens said:


> I happen to think it is a fabulous food, really. So I asked solely from the standpoint of if the commissions were the reason or the food.
> I personally ask people to buy one bag- only because it is what I happen to feed and have been happy with- but I have had people buy through Amazon and I am just happy the dog doesn't have to adjust to a new food the same week he's adjusting to a new home!
> FWIW I am not sure if she could get a commission from an amazon receipt- I have never tried to do that, I think they have a draw for those sales being assigned to the reps. But I would bet you are right!


Thanks for sharing from your perspective


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## Beth A

I have a one year old male. He is wonderful. the breeder is not an easy going person to deal with I must confess. But my boy is great. This is my third breeder of goldens. All are quirky. the dog is great. Classic easy going and beautiful golden. Loves people, kids, swimming and retrieving. Easy to train. No more one could ask for. The breeder was a bit difficult to deal with and expects compliance with what she wants--buy her brand of food, train the dog and spay/neuter == all to be documented. But these are all reasonable expectations. Again, a great dog. This is my fourth golden male and first from Nalyns.


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## Figtoria

Reasonable expectations? Hardly. I'll feed my dog what I want to feed my dog.


This looks like an account created just to defend the breeder.


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## Vinni

Stay away from her. I made the mistake of purchasing one of her puppies and had nothing but headaches. She does not disclose that you need to purchase 70 lbs of her required food, two different supplements and three different treats before she will release the puppy until 1 week before they are ready for homes. She also requires that you use her food choice for 2 years, must send her proof of purchase, or that she is making a sales commission on all the food sales. The puppy I got was sick from day one - UTI - which she should of noticed if she had spent any time with them. Also, my puppy developed a G/I track problem from a reaction to something in the food. When she was notified she blamed it all on me care of the puppy and demanded I go back to feeding her food - I didn't. I just returned the puppy because we discovered she had an abnormal blood clotting factor, spent most of her days sleeping, and gave every indication that she was not well. I am to blame for all that too so she will not replace the puppy. I am just happy not to have to deal with her any more.


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## Betsy

So so sorry you had to go through this. There truly are so many good, ethical breeders out there with great dogs. What a sad situation for you & the pup.


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## marcyd

Update - our pup from Nalyn's cannot tolerate the Life's Abundance food and we made a switch. Pro Plan working out much better. Nancy is not happy but my vet is dealing with the situation.


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## GoldenMN

Is she reluctantly accepting the switch or is she trying to change it? I am just interested because this was my main concern going into the contract. Thanks for the update!


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## Piper_the_goldenpuppy

So I know nothing about this breeder and don't live in the area, I don't breed dogs or sell food, but I will say that its a breeder's prerogative to design their own contract. If they require a certain food to be fed, or supplements (NuVet, etc), then thats entirely within their rights as a breeder. Its not completely uncommon, some breeders do have this requirement. I might not personally agree with it, but its absolutely a breeder's choice--even if they are a sales rep for a high quality food. If it goes against your ethics, then find a different breeder. I will say, however, that there is data to support a healthy diet in a growing golden retriever puppy in terms of orthopedic health and cancer risk, so part of her aim may be to protect those who might chose a sub-standard dog food. 

An ethical breeder should obtain all required certifications, and should allow you to view their contract (even if it means the onus is on you to go view it and copy it), prior to signing it or putting a deposit down on a puppy. GRCA's "Finding a breeder" page has a list of questions to ask your breeder, which they should be able to answer. If you aren't satisfied with the answers, go in another direction. Its not personal, its business. 

If you disagree with something in the contract, or something about the breeder's program doesn't fit your personal goals and values, then you should select a breeder who does. If you have questions about what happens in the event that your dog does not tolerate said food or vitamins, then you should ask about that, and either have a clarification in writing or know her personal thought about it. Sometimes dogs don't tolerate a certain food. If she would be unwilling to be open to that, or doesn't have a plan in the event the dog has a food intolerance, that would be a red flag for me. But I think you can't be angry with her for her own opinions, values, or personality after the fact if you have done your homework and know what you are getting into. Or, if you are going to change your dogs food, understand that you might not be able to return the dog in exchange for a new puppy. I personally wouldn't exchange a dog I had bonded with and put in the energy to train unless there was a serious issue with the dog anyway. 

If you are looking for a breeder who possibly has better customer service skills, then that should be something you look for in the vetting process. 

If any of these things are red flags for you, then they should be considered red flags, regardless of how attached you are to a puppy, unless you are willing to honor the contract or accept that she might not do what you would like. There are lots of breeders out there who produce excellent dogs who may have personalities and breeding programs that are a better fit for a certain individual.


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## marcyd

My pup is accepting the change well. The breeder is not, despite the fact that my pup had been sick since the day we brought her home and had a dramatic improvement once on the new food.


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## marcyd

Piper, the problem here of course is that nothing is disclosed until you go to pick up the puppy. The non refundable deposit has already been made. It's very hard to react to all of the information in the contract at the same time you are picking up the pup.


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## GoldenMN

Agree, she was not willing to send me the contract before I came to get the puppy (its a 10 hour drive), which is why I ended up not moving forward with the transaction (she also gave me a really negative feeling)

Marcy, is she taking action or is she just unhappy with the food switch?


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## Buzzner

GoldenMN said:


> Goldinmyheart - thank you for your PM. I wrote out my LONG story to share with you, but I wasn't able to send it as I am new to the forum and can't send PMs until I have posted a number of times.
> 
> I, too, had a TERRIBLE experience with this breeder. I believe that she is a very unethical breeder and would not recommend anyone enter into a contract with her. Not only that, but she is very rude in her interactions. I did not move forward with a dog that I absolutely fell in love with because of the negative relationship with her.


I just wanted to add that I had been talking with Nancy about a puppy and she did a bait and switch. I wasn't big on her attitude but when she wasn't being honest with me, I wrote and told her I was done and told her what I had found online. Her childish response below more than confirmed the point I was making. People - find a credible breeder. 

From Nancy:
I would not allow you to get one of our high quality HEALTHY puppies.
Any one who reads fake crap online and is not interested in actually talking to a veterinarian or a real person that has our dogs and our many real family super happy references .
Is not our type of home fir our dogs..
Many fake stories are put online to try to influence uneducated people to buy dogs from other not so great breeders is common practice.
We do not participate in any online fraud or bad mouthing other breeders. 
We Are Way Above That.
We screen potential buyers throughly and refuse many people the option to purchase our top of line puppies.
Sore people who are not adequate to get our dogs make up fake stories. 
And your refusal to have us meet you adds you to the list.
Please go buy a puppy from another breeder that has CANCER rittled bloodlines. And set your self up for another tragedy. 
We received 3 deposits today .and will no longer offer you our puppies.
Next year after you figure it out we would evaluate your questionaire if we have any pups not reserved prior to birth
Good luck 
There are many . puppy mills out there with dogs you could get for CHEAP 
Good day . Good luck.
nancy


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## RLB6789

We too experienced the same kind of behavior from Nancy. We had been nothing but compliant and when it came time to pick up our puppy, she kept avoiding scheduling and started to belittle us. She said that "we needed to get our story straight" and that "maybe" the puppy would be ready by a certain date. We were supposed to pick up our puppy 3 times, but it never happened because of her excuses. I finally determined that she was playing games with us. I was heartbroken. She would not refund our deposit, and I truly believe she is a thief. I have a suspicion that she takes more deposits than she has dogs. Her behavior was totally out of line and anyone talking to her should run for the hills. She is a complete scam artist!


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## Figtoria

Sorry, but her inability to spell would turn me away from this breeder without any other information.







Buzzner said:


> I just wanted to add that I had been talking with Nancy about a puppy and she did a bait and switch. I wasn't big on her attitude but when she wasn't being honest with me, I wrote and told her I was done and told her what I had found online. Her childish response below more than confirmed the point I was making. People - find a credible breeder.
> 
> From Nancy:
> I would not allow you to get one of our high quality HEALTHY puppies.
> Any one who reads fake crap online and is not interested in actually talking to a veterinarian or a real person that has our dogs and our many real family super happy references .
> Is not our type of home fir our dogs..
> Many fake stories are put online to try to influence uneducated people to buy dogs from other not so great breeders is common practice.
> We do not participate in any online fraud or bad mouthing other breeders.
> We Are Way Above That.
> We screen potential buyers throughly and refuse many people the option to purchase our top of line puppies.
> Sore people who are not adequate to get our dogs make up fake stories.
> And your refusal to have us meet you adds you to the list.
> Please go buy a puppy from another breeder that has CANCER rittled bloodlines. And set your self up for another tragedy.
> We received 3 deposits today .and will no longer offer you our puppies.
> Next year after you figure it out we would evaluate your questionaire if we have any pups not reserved prior to birth
> Good luck
> There are many . puppy mills out there with dogs you could get for CHEAP
> Good day . Good luck.
> nancy


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## WI12345

*My experience*

We just said goodbye to our 12+ year old male Golden. He was our first adoption from Nalyn's Goldens, but he won't be our last. During the years we had our dog I couldn't help but to compare him to other Goldens I would see around, and not one of them could compare to our dog. He was handsome, majestic and cute all at the same time! He was my very best friend and had a gentle temperament. He was easy to train and eager to please. He was swimming in the lake like a champ right away at 8 weeks. He was healthy and active right up till the end. He died of hemangiosarcoma, which seemed to come out of nowhere. 12+ years is a good long life for a Golden, and he never suffered. We are now on the list for a new puppy from Nalyns and we can't wait! There are none available till Spring and that seems like an eternity, but we would never dream of getting a Golden from any other bloodline. We're spoiled now.

I would agree that Nancy is not the easiest person to deal with. Her emails and texts are often confusing, as if she is writing quickly and just expects me to read her mind. I remember that when we got our last dog she was a bit difficult to deal with, but she did let us visit the pregnant mother and father. We were also able to visit the puppies after they were born but not ready to leave their mother. When it came time to pick our puppy she let all 4 boys out and gave me the opportunity to choose which one I wanted.

I don't agree that I need to have a lifetime relationship with a breeder, as someone here stated. If she is a little difficult to work with, it's well worth the sacrifice to know that I am getting a beautiful, healthy, well bred puppy. That's what's important to me. Once I have my dog, I don't expect to have much contact with her. My vet is much more important. There was no food requirement when we bought a puppy over 12 years ago. I'm not sure how I feel about that, but I have no problem giving my dog what is best for him if that is honestly the case. 

I will let you know how the rest of my experience goes this time.


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## Coopsmom

I don't know this breeder but there are enough "red flags" for me that I would not consider her. What is curious to me is that a new poster - seemingly out of the blue - joins this forum and their very first post is to defend a breeder where a lot of red flags and/or criticism have been raised. Perhaps that is just an amazing coincidence but it does seem to happen quite a bit on the forum.


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## WI12345

Coopsmom said:


> I don't know this breeder but there are enough "red flags" for me that I would not consider her. What is curious to me is that a new poster - seemingly out of the blue - joins this forum and their very first post is to defend a breeder where a lot of red flags and/or criticism have been raised. Perhaps that is just an amazing coincidence but it does seem to happen quite a bit on the forum.


I am that new poster and I can assure there is nothing other than the truth about my post. I was googling the breeder because I am going through the withdrawal of being dogless and was hoping to find some pictures I had not seen before. Her website doesn't really have a lot of pictures. While googling I came across this website and looked at it. At first I was a bit disturbed about all the negative things I read, because I already knew that she was a bit difficult. But after thinking about it I realized some things and decided to make my points here. So many people are anxious to give negative reviews on many websites about many things, but few bother to take the time to report anything positive. I still believe the good outweighs the bad with this breeder because of the dogs. Maybe it's because when you have such a superior "product" (for lack of a better term), you become a bit arrogant? As I said before, I will let you know how this turns out and if it ends up being significantly worse than my first experience with her. 

I still don't know why it matters once I have the dog. The last time, once I mailed the proof of neutering, I never spoke to her again till it was time for another dog. My contact with her will be minimal. Not a big deal.

Oh ... and we are naming him Cooper


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## jwemt81

WI12345 said:


> Maybe it's because when you have such a superior "product" (for lack of a better term), you become a bit arrogant?


No. Absolutely not. I am friends with many top-notch breeders who consistently produce sound, healthy pups that are true to the breed standard and not a single one of them has even the slightest amount of arrogance when it comes to their dogs. None whatsoever. I don't care if you can guarantee 100% cancer and dysplasia-free dogs. That still does not give any breeder the right to take that sort of attitude towards any potential puppy buyer. Your breeder is supposed to be your friend and a resource who you can utilize throughout the entire life of your dog. I have never heard of this breeder until now, but after reading about the experiences that people have had with her, never in a million years would I give someone like this my business. Never.


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## marcyd

WI12345 sent you a private message


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## DanaRuns

WI12345 said:


> I don't agree that I need to have a lifetime relationship with a breeder, as someone here stated. ... Once I have my dog, I don't expect to have much contact with her. My vet is much more important.


I think this is how the vast majority of puppy buyers feel.


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## WI12345

Marcy,

I tried to respond to your message but I guess I'm too new. I appreciate your advice. I don't think anyone here realizes how much I miss my beautiful dog and how badly I want to get another one like him. I'm willing to go through whatever we have to, and we will not sign anything without having our attorney review it. That's just a house rule with us. She knows we have already had one of her dogs and that we took good care of him. That should carry some weight. I don't expect to be treated like a first time "buyer." That being said, we both believe that once we have our dog, he is OUR DOG. Good luck to anyone trying to come back and get him.


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## marcyd

Hopefully you will get to see the contract before you pick up your pup - but that is not the case with others on this forum and was not for us. We too had lost 2 goldens - our 15 year old the month before we got our Nalyn's pup, and our 14 year old 6 months earlier. It's easy to feel vulnerable and I know how you feel.


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## WI12345

I plan to ask for the contract in advance. Right now the last I heard was that one of the dogs is in heat and that she should have puppies in early March, and that another will be bred as soon as she is in heat. I have lots of time to ask for a contract to be mailed. She wanted to fax the questionnaire to me, but when I told her I don't have a fax machine she mailed it to me. There is no reason she can give not to mail the contract. We sent the deposit a month ago. I'm just hoping that being an existing customer makes a difference. This morning I was searching the web for a back up ... just in case. So far, from my search I have found very few that even interest me. But there are a couple.


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## GoldenMN

WII - I wish you the very best with Nancy, but it sounds like her practices have changed since you last worked with her 12 years ago. You may certainly be right that you may be treated differently being a returning customer. I wish you the best in the process with Nancy - I agree that her dogs are beautiful. 

I ended up going with Dal-Rhe near Brainerd, MN. I just wanted you to have a back up breeder in case you decided against Nancy. Our dog, Zeke, is the most loving, playful, easy to train, and BEAUTIFUL dog. We get multiple comments every single time we take him out for a walk. I happen to have run into an adorable toddler golden at the park the other day and was admiring his coat - coincidentally, he also came from Dal-Rhe. 

Good Luck!


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## WI12345

We live in Florida in the winter, so we're here till May. I was doing some research yesterday and found a breeder not far from here. Her dogs are beautiful. One of the males won Best in Breed at the 2013 Westminster Dog Show! They have a litter due next month. I already have a deposit put down for a puppy from Naylyns, but I have no confirmation of where I am on the list. There might be one available in May or I might have to wait till who knows when. So I am definitely working on a backup. My first choice is still a puppy related to my last Golden, but I can't count on when that could happen.


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## Prism Goldens

That'd be Maura. And you should jump on that!


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## marcyd

Which kennel is Maura with?


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## WI12345

Maura is with GoldRox.


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## WI12345

Prism Goldens said:


> That'd be Maura. And you should jump on that!


Please elaborate. Can you tell me more about why you recommend her? I'm hoping that we can take a drive and see her dogs. Haven't heard back about that yet.


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## Prism Goldens

She's ethical. That's basically it.
If she has a new litter, don't expect to be offered a visit - and of course, do check all clearances and do your due diligence but she's well thought of in FL and I find her to be pleasant and ethical.


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## WI12345

Prism Goldens said:


> She's ethical. That's basically it.
> If she has a new litter, don't expect to be offered a visit - and of course, do check all clearances and do your due diligence but she's well thought of in FL and I find her to be pleasant and ethical.


I don't need to visit the puppies when they are born, but I do want to get more information and see the parents. Right now I know nothing about either parent of the puppies being born next month. I haven't even seen a picture. She told me their names and that's it. I'm not sure how to do the research. With Nancy, all the information about each dog is on her website. Hopefully Maura will get back to me with more info. It's hasn't been 24 hours since I last reached out to her.


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## Prism Goldens

If you post sire and dam name, we could whip that out for you quickly. Probably faster than you'll hear back from Maura. There's a huge two week circuit coming up in FL and everyone I know is doing last minute getting ready activities.


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## WI12345

Prism Goldens said:


> If you post sire and dam name, we could whip that out for you quickly. Probably faster than you'll hear back from Maura. There's a huge two week circuit coming up in FL and everyone I know is doing last minute getting ready activities.


She said the sire is named *** and the dam is Willow, daughter of Cody.


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## Kmullen

Here is ***:
Pedigree: AM CH Leongolden *** *** Huge Love


Here is Willow:
Pedigree: Goldrox De La Vega Turnin' Up The Heat


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## WI12345

Thank you so much! This helps a lot!


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## WI12345

I was able to find all the pertinent information on both dogs, and lots of pics of ***. Can't find any pics of Willow. I wonder why there are no pics of her on Maura's website?


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## puddles everywhere

so does this reg. # mean they are registered from another country? ENCI1198228
Just curious, it's part of the learning curve for us beginners.


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## LJack

I am sure she will be happy to send you pictures. If she gave you names there may be pictures already up on K9DATA.COM Home Page and you should be able to see health certifications on Orthopedic Foundation for Animals with the names too.

I am not sure if you would be invited to visit. Exposure to harmful infectious agents is a real concern when you have pregnant bitches or young puppies on the property. Many breeders kind of go on lock down for health reasons until puppies are born and have several weeks under their belts.


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## LJack

puddles everywhere said:


> so does this reg. # mean they are registered from another country? ENCI1198228
> Just curious, it's part of the learning curve for us beginners.


I don't have Tizzy's original foreign registration on me but yes, I think it is a Ente Nazionale Della Cinofilia Itliana registration number. That makes sense because Leongold's owners are originally from Italy.


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## Prism Goldens

My website is so out of date, it doesn't surprise me that she's not on Maura's. Even though I have a webmaster, I do have to write what I want then figure on an hour catching all his mistakes. So if she's like me, it's got to be a really rainy weekend. 
I know ***- am almost sure he showed in Sweeps in Brooksville 2 years ago, I liked him. And Musta and Carlotta are a lovely couple with lovely well behaved beautiful children.


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## LJack

WI12345 said:


> I was able to find all the pertinent information on both dogs, and lots of pics of ***. Can't find any pics of Willow. I wonder why there are no pics of her on Maura's website?


Dog people are not always the best at tech. Add to that most have families and day jobs. It is not uncommon to find kennel websites that are years out of date. Heck some of our best don't have sites at all or maybe a one sheet with a contract channel. 

I am going to bet she is lovely and that eventually Maura can send you pictures. You can see pictures of her dad Cody. I highly doubt she is a troll looking dog that one would not want to take a picture of so as to hide her.:wink2:


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## Prism Goldens

And be sure to see heart and eye on her- I'm sure she has them but do get copies.


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## WI12345

I just spoke to Maura on the phone. She said she would send me some pics of Willow. Actually she said she was going to do it right away so she wouldn't forget, but she hasn't so far. She told me that her deposits are refundable, which was good to hear. Nancy's are not. Sounds like this would be a good back up. Right now Nancy is not committing to anything. She will not tell me where I am on the list for a boy. Maura told me she only has one other deposit for a boy. If we get a dog from Maura we will lose $300, and we will also pay quite a bit more. A lot to think about.


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## WI12345

Maura did send me a pic of Willow. I think both dogs (Willow and ***) seem to be on the darker side. Does anyone here know if that necessarily means all the puppies will be darker in color?


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## Prism Goldens

There'll probably be a range of colors. I don't personally think of *** (don't know Willow) as dark- he's just a medium gold to me. I have dark dogs!!!so my version of dark is probably skewed. But he's also not a very light dog either. That said, I doubt there will be whitish puppies in the litter.


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## WI12345

So now I have another question. I am a but obsessed with finding the right dog ... can you tell? I just checked ***'s records and his hips were listed as "fair." Also, he has distichiasis in his eyes, which is hereditary. Snapper, the father of the puppies from Naylns, has normal to good everything. Is this something I should be concerned with?


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## Forluvofgoldens

We too, had an awful experience with Nancy. Every time you talked to her, she would say something a little different. That should have been my first clue. 

She basically back peddled on everything we ever spoke about either via phone or email. Then she was somewhat nice when it was time for pups.

She changed the price the day we were coming with a comment about mom having a c section that I had not been told about, she also acted like she was doing us a favor taking our money for a pup though that IS her business. She is RUDE and she lies and on top of everything else, tries to make you buy dog food for 2 years from Life's Abundance (JUST LIKE AMWAY SCAM). It's good food, but I don't need anyone to tell me what to feed my baby that I paid for. My dogs have always been on holistic food. She was going to withhold the pup when we finally got there until we agreed to her "contract". A contract which by the way, is not binding as we have a lawyer in the family and he looked at it. 

The dog is great and I would not give the pup up for the world. Very smart, potty trained in no time, basic obedience was very simple too. My regret is knowing that this pup came from such a nasty person and I would never go back there again.

Everyone that has posted you will never see a dime back out of her is right. For all her claims about the health and well being of her pups, ours came home and we found the next morning the pup had a severe ear infection in both ears. One would think that being a groomer as well as a breeder she may have noticed this.

She is rude, a liar, all about show and money. I believe she cares for dogs, but that comes third on her list. I would not recommend her to anyone.


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## Forluvofgoldens

Thank to all the posts to know we are not alone in our feelings about Naylans.

Still waiting for my original post to show??


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## Forluvofgoldens

The pups are indeed great, but Nancy is the most rude unpleasant person to ever try to deal with. 

I would not recommend the nightmare we had with her to anyone. I have a post in here if you want to check it out, you'll understand my reply better.


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## WI12345

I guess I have to eat crow. After reading all these posts and talking about it to my husband, we both are coming to the conclusion that we should move on from Nancy ... and forfeit our $300 deposit, since she is one of the only breeders out there that will not refund it under any circumstances. Keep in mind, we are still fresh off the loss of our Golden and just wanted a dog as close to him as possible.

Apparently taking a deposit before a dog is even pregnant is not the norm. I had no idea. Those that I have recently talked to don't take a deposit till there are actually healthy puppies born. And they all will refund the deposit if they don't give you a dog.

I did some research on Maura's litter, and the father ... *** ... has hips that are "fair" and an issue with his eyes where the eyelashes grow the wrong way and need treatment (which is hereditary). I know that's not life threatening, but who wants to deal with that if they don't have to? The "fair" hips also concerned me.

I received a PM from someone here that might have a puppy available soon. I did the research and both parents check out great! Hopefully this works out, but if not we will continue our search and Nancy will become the backup.

Last night I gave my husband (for his birthday) a collage I had made of pictures of our Golden at all stages of his life. We both cried.

We really need a dog ...


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## LJack

First, there are no perfect dogs. You will drive yourself crazy if you look for perfect because every dog has good and bad they are bringing to the table when breeding only some of which we can test for. 

*** has his health certification for hips and Fair is a normal hip grade. Fair is not almost Dysplastic, it is normal. Kind of like 20/20 vision is normal but some people have 20/15 or even 20/10 vision which is better than normal. A person with 20/20 vision is not considered to have bad eyesight simply because others have better. 

On his eyes I would want to see an updated eye form done with in the last 12 months. 

Though out of date, his old eye certification is a passing eye exam. In some breeds Distichiasis is a failing finding. It is not the case of Goldens because it compared to other breeds it rarely causes problems. If OFA determined this eye problem was an issue in our breed, it they would not issue certifications for eyes. It is actually not uncommon to see Goldens have it on some exams and not others. In general in Goldens the hairs a fine, soft and very few that do not contact the eye. In fact most Goldens with Distichiasis it is found not because of any issues but as part of these pre-breeding health tests.

I would not pass up a puppy from a great breeder from parents with these certifications but everyone has their own opinions. So, perhaps based on your color concerns and skepticism of passing heath certifications you should pass on the puppy. 

I would caution you to make sure all health testing is in place for any litter you consider. Sadly there are many bad breeders who mislead, lie or falsely health results. Then you will want to ask about those things that can't be seen on health certifications like temperament, longevity, cancer, epilepsy, allergies, ear infections, hotspots, etc. Try to get as full a picture of overall health. I always start by verifying the core health certifications and then diving deeper in a discussion.


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## WI12345

LJack said:


> First, there are no perfect dogs. You will drive yourself crazy if you look for perfect because every dog has good and bad they are bringing to the table when breeding only some of which we can test for.
> 
> *** has his health certification for hips and Fair is a normal hip grade. Fair is not almost Dysplastic, it is normal. Kind of like 20/20 vision is normal but some people have 20/15 or even 20/10 vision which is better than normal. A person with 20/20 vision is not considered to have bad eyesight simply because others have better.
> 
> On his eyes I would want to see an updated eye form done with in the last 12 months.
> 
> Though out of date, his old eye certification is a passing eye exam. In some breeds Distichiasis is a failing finding. It is not the case of Goldens because it compared to other breeds it rarely causes problems. If OFA determined this eye problem was an issue in our breed, it they would not issue certifications for eyes. It is actually not uncommon to see Goldens have it on some exams and not others. In general in Goldens the hairs a fine, soft and very few that do not contact the eye. In fact most Goldens with Distichiasis it is found not because of any issues but as part of these pre-breeding health tests.
> 
> I would not pass up a puppy from a great breeder from parents with these certifications but everyone has their own opinions. So, perhaps based on your color concerns and skepticism of passing heath certifications you should pass on the puppy.
> 
> I would caution you to make sure all health testing is in place for any litter you consider. Sadly there are many bad breeders who mislead, lie or falsely health results. Then you will want to ask about those things that can't be seen on health certifications like temperament, longevity, cancer, epilepsy, allergies, ear infections, hotspots, etc. Try to get as full a picture of overall health. I always start by verifying the core health certifications and then diving deeper in a discussion.


You're right ... I am already driving myself crazy!

With my first Golden, I did very little research. She was a great dog but only lived to be 9. I was more careful with the next one and found Nancy. Still, I didn't look any further. That dog was beautiful and had a great temperament. He did have a few minor health problems during his life ... allergies, ear infections and hot spots. During the last few years of his life he was taking Zyrtec every day. Still, he lived a basically long and healthy life. Now I am comparing breeders, comparing dogs and their health info and it just makes sense to choose the dogs with "normal" and "good" everything. I'm certainly no expert and I appreciate your feedback. 

I'm not all that concerned with color. Most importantly, I'm trying not to let my mourning cause me to pick a puppy too quickly.


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## LJack

It is super easy to drive yourself crazy. :wink2:



WI12345 said:


> Now I am comparing breeders, comparing dogs and their health info and it just makes sense to choose the dogs with "normal" and "good" everything.


You certainly need to make a decision on what you feel comfortable with. All I am saying is that you are throwing out dogs with passing health certifications. 

Adding to that, trying to compare breeders and dogs is difficult even to the most experienced. There is so much more to dogs than just "Fair" or "Good" hips. 

I'd take a puppy from a "fair" hip dog with a breeders option on eyes with full certifications and generations of full certifications from a breeder with decades of experience producing great dogs who go out and compete well in their venue over a puppy from a dog with "excellent" hips and "normal" eyes where there are spotty certifications in the background from a brand new breeder who does nothing but make puppies. 

Just incase you have not seen it on OFA I have an image below of what a failing eye looks like. It is actually rare to see because most people simply don't send them in and the field will show blank. 

Health certifications are important and a great place to start but dig deeper, especially when comparing dogs. There is so much more to making a good decision here than just good and eye certifications with no breeder options. 

If you choose to make your selection criteria even tighter than the standard passing health certifications it will make you process harder and likely your wait longer.


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## Prism Goldens

WI12345 said:


> So now I have another question. I am a but obsessed with finding the right dog ... can you tell? I just checked ***'s records and his hips were listed as "fair." Also, he has distichiasis in his eyes, which is hereditary. Snapper, the father of the puppies from Naylns, has normal to good everything. Is this something I should be concerned with?


fair is a passing grade. I think even a novice would be able to tell dysplastic hips on films but the differences between excellent and good, and good and fair are very tiny and a fair rating is not 'almost dysplastic' in any way. 
Distichia is very common- it could be one eyelash, depending on the examiner's personal break point on reporting- I used to go to a guy in GA who never wrote down less than two, but here in FL have had one get a note. The one lash wasn't there the next exam w the same doctor. I wouldn't want to reproduce a dog with 20+ extra lashes, but less than 5 I wouldn't worry about personally.


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## WI12345

Prism Goldens said:


> fair is a passing grade. I think even a novice would be able to tell dysplastic hips on films but the differences between excellent and good, and good and fair are very tiny and a fair rating is not 'almost dysplastic' in any way.
> Distichia is very common- it could be one eyelash, depending on the examiner's personal break point on reporting- I used to go to a guy in GA who never wrote down less than two, but here in FL have had one get a note. The one lash wasn't there the next exam w the same doctor. I wouldn't want to reproduce a dog with 20+ extra lashes, but less than 5 I wouldn't worry about personally.


Thanks for the info. Ever since I decided to look further and not necessarily get a puppy from the same breeder as before, I feel like searching for a puppy has become a full time job. I decided to send Maura a deposit for a puppy that is expected to be born at the end of next month. Her deposits are fully refundable, unlike Nancy's. I was number two on the list when I mailed the check, so the chances of getting a puppy are pretty good if she has a few boys. I was hoping to hear from Karagold, as they just had a litter and that puppy would be ready sooner, but so far I don't know if she has any boys that are not spoken for. Anyway, thanks for clearing the hip and eyelash confusion!


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## WI12345

So, today I have an update. I did say I would let everyone know how things go with Nancy from Nayln's. After I sent the deposit to Maura, I heard from Karen at Karagold. She had a litter born on Monday and another is expected to be born in a few days. We spoke for a long time on the phone, and towards the end of the conversation she told me that she does have a male for me. Apparently she feels people out by talking to them before she decides who can take one of her babies home. I don't blame her. I was thrilled and will be able to bring him home in March! I emailed Maura and explained what happened and she was more than OK with tearing up the check she had just received from me for her litter expected at the end of February. She completely understood that a male already born is more of a sure thing than waiting for a litter and not knowing how many, if any males there will be. Not to mention I can bring the puppy home sooner rather than later.

I just emailed Nancy and told her that I am no longer buying a puppy from her. She never did tell me where I am on the list for a male from the breeding she just did. (I assume the dog is pregnant by now, but never heard). I just wanted her to tell me how many people that wanted a male were ahead of me on the list, but she never directly answered that question and basically told me to let nature take it's course and made me feel like I was bothering her even asking. In my email just now I explained that since she couldn't give me an idea of when I will have a puppy, the timing is better for me to take a puppy that I know for sure is born and waiting for me. I also said that I know she doesn't return deposits because they are good forever, but that I doubted I would be able to use it 10-13 years from now. I don't know how old she is or how long she expects to be doing this, but I'm about to turn 60. I told her I would leave it up to her. I will be shocked if she decides to do the right thing and send back my $300. If she does, I will definitely let you all know.

Meanwhile my husband and I were out last night telling all our friends "we're pregnant!" We're very excited!!!


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## WI12345

Oh Man. Here is what she wrote back:

"I will n ok t use their lines.
You did not do your homework 
I already told you our male deposits are for June or later.
If you did not want a great dog related
to your boy why did you call ?
Heath n longevity should be most important. 
Quickest is n o t h I w you buy a puppy ????
We had male. 3 wee k s ago.??
nancy"

First of all, this is what a typical email or text from her looks like. Hard to even read it. But it is also full of lies. She never told me anything concrete, even though I asked her repeatedly. And I don't know what the heck she is talking about when she says she had a male 3 weeks ago. Very strange. Bizarre, actually. But now she is badmouthing a reputable breeder. I forwarded it to Karen because I think she should know when someone badmouths her. Of course there was no answer to my request for my deposit back. I'm just going to chalk that up as a loss and move on. I don't want any more bad feelings associated with my precious dog that I lost.


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## T.Mathews

Wow... Sounds like you have endured quite a bit. Blessings to you and your family. Sounds like you made a great choice and I'm sure your new male pup will be the perfect match. I believe in positivity and kindness, sounds like the new breeder is a great choice!


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## puddles everywhere

Happy you have chosen your new pup, can't wait to see pictures!

I'm no math genius but 1st she says the deposit is for a littler in June/July? but she had a male 3 weeks ago? So which is it? And I thought my breeder was a kermudgin! No wonder they are such great friends  Think you will appreciate the breeder you choose a little more after this.


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## Prism Goldens

Karen is a far better more reliable in the long run breeder for you-count your blessings.
A far more normal/ethical reaction is Maura's- sure- I will tear up your check (but I would bet $ that she'd have returned your deposit if she'd already cashed it).


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## WI12345

Buzzner said:


> I just wanted to add that I had been talking with Nancy about a puppy and she did a bait and switch. I wasn't big on her attitude but when she wasn't being honest with me, I wrote and told her I was done and told her what I had found online. Her childish response below more than confirmed the point I was making. People - find a credible breeder.
> 
> From Nancy:
> I would not allow you to get one of our high quality HEALTHY puppies.
> Any one who reads fake crap online and is not interested in actually talking to a veterinarian or a real person that has our dogs and our many real family super happy references .
> Is not our type of home fir our dogs..
> Many fake stories are put online to try to influence uneducated people to buy dogs from other not so great breeders is common practice.
> We do not participate in any online fraud or bad mouthing other breeders.
> We Are Way Above That.
> We screen potential buyers throughly and refuse many people the option to purchase our top of line puppies.
> Sore people who are not adequate to get our dogs make up fake stories.
> And your refusal to have us meet you adds you to the list.
> Please go buy a puppy from another breeder that has CANCER rittled bloodlines. And set your self up for another tragedy.
> We received 3 deposits today .and will no longer offer you our puppies.
> Next year after you figure it out we would evaluate your questionaire if we have any pups not reserved prior to birth
> Good luck
> There are many . puppy mills out there with dogs you could get for CHEAP
> Good day . Good luck.
> nancy


She most certainly does bad mouth other breeders. When I changed my mind and decided to go with another breeder I received a nasty email from her and she badmouthed that breeder along with lying to me about what had happened in our previous correspondence. I copied and pasted her email in this forum yesterday. You are all right about her and I guess I had to learn for myself. I will never recommend her to anyone. She is completely unethical and I think unbalanced as well. Her dogs are in fact great dogs, but she is not the only breeder with great dogs ... although I think in her unbalanced mind she actually thinks she is. I am kissing my deposit goodbye and considering it money spent on a lesson learned! Onwards and upwards


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## WI12345

puddles everywhere said:


> Happy you have chosen your new pup, can't wait to see pictures!
> 
> I'm no math genius but 1st she says the deposit is for a littler in June/July? but she had a male 3 weeks ago? So which is it? And I thought my breeder was a kermudgin! No wonder they are such great friends  Think you will appreciate the breeder you choose a little more after this.


I have no idea where that "3 weeks ago" came from. But the June or later was complete bull. She actually texted me at the end of December and told me one of her dogs was in heat, and who she was going to breed her to, and that the puppies would probably be born in early March to go home early May. A week or so later I texted her to ask her where I was on the list for that litter and she gave me a bunch of reasons why she couldn't commit. She first scolded me, telling me that she didn't even know if the dog was pregnant yet. Then said people want different things ... color, gender, and some people want one sooner and some later. I told her I simply wanted to know how many were ahead of me on the list and she told me to just let nature take it's course ... would not answer. That was when I decided to start looking for other options. Now she is acting like she never even considered me for the March litter, yet she emailed me to tell me about it? It was all I could do not to write back to her, but it would have accomplished nothing. I wonder how many deposits she has that never resulted in completed transactions. I'm really glad I dodged this bullet, even if I lost $300. I have a feeling I would have been waiting a long time for a dog, and who knows what would have happened with that whole contract thing?


----------



## 154905

Leslie B said:


> 2. Review the contract for the purchase of the puppy and check it for any stipulations. Are they acceptable to you? Dog food requirements, vitamins, vaccination schedule, limited registration, housing, training, etc. There are too many possible requirements to list here.
> 
> 4. Review the guarantee with an eye to what you would do if your dog happens to have a problem. A guarntee that requires the return of the dog for any remedy is pretty hard for most families.


What would be red flags for #2?

Could you please expound on #4? 

Thank you!


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## puddles everywhere

I have quite a few of her dogs in my pups line and my breeder and her have partnered up for a couple of decades. I believe my breeder used her as a mentor as she was less than pleasant as well. She did answer all my question via email but I didn't ask too many. She did supply a contract, in fact it's on her web site. Because she was 5 hrs away I didn't make a visit prior to picking my pup up, big mistake. I had 3 to pick from and this lady had no knowledge of her pups personalities. She with held water for 5 hrs, guess so they wouldn't pee on her floor? When I arrived at my scheduled p/u time I was greeted with a lecture for knocking on the front door! When I sat in the floor to meet the pups they ran to me out of curiosity, this lasted about 10 seconds and then went on their way. The one that hung around and ate my shoe laces is the one I brought home. She offered no receipt for the cash payment, no AKC papers, only a hand written note with the vets name/number and proof of 1st shots & worm. She lied about them being checked by a vet as I called him as soon as we got home. I asked for papers and was told she would file them. At this point I was ready to give up the $500. deposit and head home. I regretted not doing this several time in the next few weeks.
My daughter and 5 grandchildren were waiting in the car, how could I leave without a puppy!

So.. we headed out. About an hr into our drive home I realized the puppy was covered in fleas & ticks (very thick hair). Poor baby whined like crazy then remembered she hadn't had anything to drink in hours so we stopped and gave her a drink. Shortly after this she began to leak. She had puss on her vulva and one of her eyes started running. We had to stop every 20 minutes to let this baby pee, it was a very long trip home. Poor pup had a UTI and what I thought was inverted eye lashes, parasites & coccidia. The eye turned out to be a genetic problem but she grew out of it. All of this was finally cleared up 4 months later. It would have been cheaper to loose the deposit than what the vet bills were.

When I called and asked about the reg. papers she had lots of excuses but did finally file them. When I received them she had placed herself as a co-owner. After many memos and phone calls to the AKC she removed herself as owner. It seems she needs my permission to be co-owner and since I had made a formal complaint the AKC forced her to withdraw ownership. 

My pup did not know how to interact with people, preferred to be outside... even during a thunderstorm! Didn't know how to go through doorways. She didn't want to be around people and wouldn't make eye contact. She was only 6 wks so knew we could change this but it took weeks of sitting in the floor and feeding meals one kibble at a time.

On paper this breeder has good blood lines and clearances but really needs to clean up her kennels and work on her people skills! I wouldn't want to do it again but we are just about at 11 months and have a beautiful pup that is never more than a few inches away. She is wonderful 

I didn't care to have a lifelong relationship either but you will be grateful for choosing a different breeder. This is my pup.

[/ATTACH]


----------



## WISGOLD

*Ear Infections*

If anyone has had issues with an ear infection have your veterinarian scope the ears if they have the equipment to do so and not just a look see with a light. Our puppy came with ear mites which was only seen with a scope. Was taken care of with a tube of Revolution but still troubling considering it should never have happened with a ten week old puppy that had just been to the vet for a health check up prior to purchase.


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## Leslie B

154905 said:


> What would be red flags for #2?
> 
> Could you please expound on #4?
> 
> Thank you!




For me a red flag would be a dog food or supplement that I have to purchase from the breeder, or where I need to use a code so the breeder gets credit for my purchases. Once I have my pup home it is my choice what to feed and where to buy it. Another red flag would be a breeder that withholds the AKC registration pending anything (spay, title, clearances). AKC is very clear that the registration is to be granted to the new owner. When I sell a pup I have the new owner fill out the registration at the time of purchase, write a check to AKC, and send in the whole litter registration as a group. I want it done and my pups registered. 


For number 4 it is about the guarantee. Most good breeders freely state that the pup's health is guaranteed but what does that mean? This is not a toaster. If it is defective you can't call Amazon and say send me a new one and the old one is tossed out. For most breeders the guarantee is really a warranty. It offers a remedy if there is a problem. READ that carefully. Most offer to replace the pup if there is a problem with a new puppy with the provision you return the first pup and all the paperwork. What??? The pup you have had for 12 months develops hip dysplasia and you are going to drop him off at the breeders and take home a new puppy and start over? Really? What if you don't want to give up your dog that is now a part of the family? If so then there is no remedy from the breeder.


Is that a tough stand? Perhaps but remember that the breeder had the puppy for 8 weeks and a lot of the health issues that our dogs suffer from have a genetic component AND an environmental control. The breeder cannot control what has happened to the dog after he went home with you.


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## Ubu1234

How long ago did you get your dog from Nalyn's?


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## Ubu1234

Forluvofgoldens said:


> The pups are indeed great, but Nancy is the most rude unpleasant person to ever try to deal with.
> 
> I would not recommend the nightmare we had with her to anyone. I have a post in here if you want to check it out, you'll understand my reply better.


I tried to find the original post but didn't see it. Could you elaborate?


----------



## WI12345

This woman is something else! After telling me off when I told her back in January that I decided to get a dog from a different breeder (and after badmouthing the breeder), and after refusing to return my deposit ... she emailed me yesterday to ask me to confirm that I am buying one of her 2 week old puppies. This woman is all over the place. In her last email she told me that she would not have a puppy for me till later in the summer (after telling me I could have one from this litter in May), and now she is back to telling me that she has a puppy for me in May. Did she forget that I told her I changed my mind and that she refused to return my deposit? I have never been anything but cordial with her, but her emails have been nasty at times. The second email she sent yesterday, after I reminded her that I already told her I was not getting one of her puppies was nasty again:

"Ok fine. Your loss of a Murphy repeat. 
Good luck.
we told you we had pups ready by may. 
You wanted a pup in may not March???????
Thanks for letting us know 
Had you been upfront we could have referred you to pups in florida .
our litter due in may is sired by a top Florida c h ampion with EXCELLENT hips.etc.
Enjoy your pup"

Accusing me of not being upfront is laughable. She was so vague when I tried to find out when I would have a puppy that I finally decided to find a breeder who would be straight with me. That and what I read here caused me to forfeit my deposit and look elsewhere. 

She seems to think that she's the only person capable of looking up health information of sires and dams. Not to mention, my puppy is also from champion lines. 

I did not write back. It's not worth it to get into an argument with someone so unhinged. Besides, we picked up our new boy yesterday and we are over the moon!


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## Prism Goldens

Interesting. The litter due in May is sired by a dog w Good hips that she owns. 
I know there are more, but to my knowledge, there are three CH dogs in FL w OFA Excellent hips. I'm sure there are more, but of the ones 'known' by the fancy that is it. One of them is mine and I didn't breed to her lol. Edward, Crush, and Eddie are all I know of it FL.


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## WI12345

Prism Goldens said:


> Interesting. The litter due in May is sired by a dog w Good hips that she owns.
> I know there are more, but to my knowledge, there are three CH dogs in FL w OFA Excellent hips. I'm sure there are more, but of the ones 'known' by the fancy that is it. One of them is mine and I didn't breed to her lol. Edward, Crush, and Eddie are all I know of it FL.


The litter she is referring to is ready to go home in May ... born 2 weeks ago.

Personally I think she either lies through her teeth or she's just plain nuts!

Tried to post a pic of our new Karagold pup but can't get it to work.


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## puddles everywhere

Congratulation on the new puppy. Not responding was a wise move... like they say, it takes two to have a conversation. I'm not sure she would remember your response anyway. I'm sorry you lost your deposit, you might consider it as a payment for future peace of mind. One of those life lessons we all have 
I don't know this lady but perhaps a little dementia is in play? I am so glad you did a followup post and hope you will start a new thread and post pictures.


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## WI12345

puddles everywhere said:


> Congratulation on the new puppy. Not responding was a wise move... like they say, it takes two to have a conversation. I'm not sure she would remember your response anyway. I'm sorry you lost your deposit, you might consider it as a payment for future peace of mind. One of those life lessons we all have
> I don't know this lady but perhaps a little dementia is in play? I am so glad you did a followup post and hope you will start a new thread and post pictures.


I am trying to post pics but I can't get it to work. I drag the file and it just disappears.


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## puddles everywhere

I have had it do that before, LOL I thought I just missed the "zone". You can try as an attachment... just click on the paperclip and choose your file.


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## WI12345

puddles everywhere said:


> I have had it do that before, LOL I thought I just missed the "zone". You can try as an attachment... just click on the paperclip and choose your file.


I managed to do it, although the pics all turned out sideways. Oh well, better than nothing!


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## WI12345

WI12345 said:


> The litter she is referring to is ready to go home in May ... born 2 weeks ago.
> 
> Personally I think she either lies through her teeth or she's just plain nuts!
> 
> Tried to post a pic of our new Karagold pup but can't get it to work.


I just re-read her email and realized she did mention a second litter (other than the one just born 2 weeks ago) coming in May. It will be interesting to see if she actually posts something on her website and tells us who this sire in Florida is. The whole situation has turned out to be so strange. She has been so rude to me ... I feel like telling her that I joined this forum to defend her reputation. She should be thanking me. Now I feel completely different, due to a combination of what I read here and her bizarre behavior during my recent communication with her.


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## Prism Goldens

I thought of a 4th CH in FL who is OFA Excellent- Oscar. 
Her own dog is a CH w Excellent hips and his litter is also due in May, but 
he doesn't live in FL. I too hope she forgets she's written you off (LOL) and lets you know who the FL dog is.


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## hotel4dogs

frozen semen from Fisher?


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## K9-Design

*nope
,,,,,
*


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## Prism Goldens

I kinda coulda guessed that... but didn't want to speak for you lol...
that was a BIG Nope!


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## hotel4dogs

On a totally unrelated note, I met an awesome Fisher son this weekend, name of Flip (Pedigree: OTCH MACH Morninglo Everything Under The Sun UDX GN TD JH VCD2 WC CCA VCX OBHF)



K9-Design said:


> *nope
> ,,,,,
> *


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## WI12345

At some point she will probably post the May litter on her website. Right now she has the litter that was just born and the info about the Dam and Sire. She will have to reveal who this Florida Sire is at that point.


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## K9-Design

hotel4dogs said:


> On a totally unrelated note, I met an awesome Fisher son this weekend, name of Flip (Pedigree: OTCH MACH Morninglo Everything Under The Sun UDX GN TD JH VCD2 WC CCA VCX OBHF)


Oh cool! Flip and Andrea (and Brad) are super. He was from Fisher's 3rd litter. Hard to believe they are NINE years old! Holy crow! 
Was Flip in the TDX?
Andrea had the first VCCH of any breed -- Jakki


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## hotel4dogs

Yes, at the TDX. 
Flip and Jakki... Perfect examples of breeding done right.



K9-Design said:


> Oh cool! Flip and Andrea (and Brad) are super. He was from Fisher's 3rd litter. Hard to believe they are NINE years old! Holy crow!
> Was Flip in the TDX?
> Andrea had the first VCCH of any breed -- Jakki


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## MarcelaAGK

Hello, just saw your post, could you send me a pm to tell me more about your story? I just gave a deposit and I am feeling it might have been the wrong move because of the breeder. Thank you!


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## MarcelaAGK

I wish I had found this thread sooner!! Just gave a deposit not doing a lot of research on Nancys reputation. I focused on the AKC characteristics of the breed and spoke with her about the healthy dogs she has. But just did the deposit and she was very rude about 9 dollars the paypal web page charged her and wanted me to deposit those remaining 9. It would be nice if the AKC could make a research on all the bad testimonies. It just feels that I did the wrong move.


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## SheetsSM

MarcelaAGK said:


> I wish I had found this thread sooner!! Just gave a deposit not doing a lot of research on Nancys reputation. I focused on the AKC characteristics of the breed and spoke with her about the healthy dogs she has. But just did the deposit and she was very rude about 9 dollars the paypal web page charged her and wanted me to deposit those remaining 9. It would be nice if the AKC could make a research on all the bad testimonies. It just feels that I did the wrong move.


She is violating Paypal's terms of agreement if she charges you the $9. Perhaps contact PayPal & see if you can back out.


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## MarcelaAGK

Already contacted them, they told me to ask her to get the money back or that I have to wait for 7 days to make a formal claim. I asked her to send the money back and she just said " I am not sending money back". I paid through paypal as getting a service and she was mad about that saying she wasn't a business, that I needed to send her the money as if she was a family member to get no charge from the transaction. BUT if you do it that way, paypal does not protects you from the payment you made. Very unethical breeder and person. I won't even fight for the deposit, ill take it a lesson learned! I am sure I don't want to have that kind of relationship with the breeder. I love dogs as family members and have had the opportunity to have other breed breeders with wonderfull relationships.


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## Prism Goldens

MarcelaAGK said:


> Already contacted them, they told me to ask her to get the money back or that I have to wait for 7 days to make a formal claim. I asked her to send the money back and she just said " I am not sending money back". I paid through paypal as getting a service and she was mad about that saying she wasn't a business, that I needed to send her the money as if she was a family member to get no charge from the transaction. BUT if you do it that way, paypal does not protects you from the payment you made. Very unethical breeder and person. I won't even fight for the deposit, ill take it a lesson learned! I am sure I don't want to have that kind of relationship with the breeder. I love dogs as family members and have had the opportunity to have other breed breeders with wonderfull relationships.


I don' t think it is a big fight w PP= you just make a claim and they take the funds from her account. People who do this sort of thing and are never penalized continue to take advantage of others.


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## WI12345

MarcelaAGK said:


> I wish I had found this thread sooner!! Just gave a deposit not doing a lot of research on Nancys reputation. I focused on the AKC characteristics of the breed and spoke with her about the healthy dogs she has. But just did the deposit and she was very rude about 9 dollars the paypal web page charged her and wanted me to deposit those remaining 9. It would be nice if the AKC could make a research on all the bad testimonies. It just feels that I did the wrong move.


Oh Wow! Just saw this. Sorry you are having to go through this. She is a piece of work! I don't know how she has gotten away with this for so long. When we got our Murphy over 12 years ago, she was a bit rude and odd but everything went well. This time she was horrible. It's almost like she is not in her right mind or something! I don't believe she will ever give anyone back their deposit. I came right out and asked for mine (politely) and she wrote me back a nasty email ... I suppose that was her way of feeling justified to not return my money when she knew I was not getting a puppy ... making it seem like I was the one in the wrong so she could keep the money. I'm sure the dogs are still great dogs, but she is awful! I'm actually wondering if she is having trouble selling her puppies these days, because even after I told her I was getting a puppy from a different breeder, she emailed me when hers were born to ask if I was still interested. When I told her I already had a puppy she sent me a very insulting (and inaccurate) email. Everyone should steer clear of this person!!!


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## Doggo

Found this after a bit of nostalgia day dreaming and am both happy and sad. I guess back to the beginning, we purchased our little from nalyn's a little over 5 years ago, we did minimal research but had prior experience with nalyn's goldens and they are some of the most beautiful dogs so we decided that's the puppy we wanted and dove in. I vaguely remember Nancy being difficult to deal with over the phone but vividly remember her springing the food "contract" on us when we came to pick up our pup. We obliged for ~6 months then stopped, after paying and leaving we had no real contact with Nancy anyway so it turned to be non issue. Unfortunately when our pup was just over 2 he passed away extremely suddenly one minute he was running in a field with more energy then the sun the next he was gone, the vet said it was likely some kind of heart attack or something but we never found out we were so in shock we didn't know what to do. I remember getting some papers and "certifications" on his health from Nancy when we brought him home and we ended up going to the same vet that Nancy did just by luck, however they both never mentioned anything was wrong or could be and maybe 6 months prior to his passing his vet was just "no longer at this clinic". So there's been a lot of heartache and unanswered questions around our little guy. Life happened in between we didn't reach out to Nancy when it happened which with some of her responses here I'm glad we didn't need that coming at us also. I guess I wrote all that because we were thinking of a another pup and nalyn's was first in mind but not any longer. They are some of the most beautiful dogs I've seen which like someone else said is a shame that their breeder is so difficult and deceptive to deal with.


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## puddles everywhere

Earlier this year my golden girl failed her eye clearance. The vet doing the exam felt strongly that I not only post the failed exam to OFA (which I did) but to inform the breeders of my dog and the grandparents breeders as this is a genetic issue.

I really dreaded doing this as my breeder is difficult to deal with but I did it. So sent out 4 emails to the breeders, most said they were sorry to hear of the sight problem but thanked me for the info. 

The email to Nalyns (her dog sired my girl) and my breeder are a very different story. After days of being threatened, told how stupid I was for the purchase, demanding I return the dog or get her spayed immediately and finally the threat of lawsuit from my breeder ... well my final email was simple. "This email is for your information, how you choose to use it is up to you". Then I remembered what I used to tell my children, don't be a part of the problem. After this I refused to return emails and the drama went away.

Beautiful or not, there are lots of really great breeders out there that actually want too know about the people that take their dogs and aren't so deceptive.
I hope you find one


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## WI12345

Doggo said:


> Found this after a bit of nostalgia day dreaming and am both happy and sad. I guess back to the beginning, we purchased our little from nalyn's a little over 5 years ago, we did minimal research but had prior experience with nalyn's goldens and they are some of the most beautiful dogs so we decided that's the puppy we wanted and dove in. I vaguely remember Nancy being difficult to deal with over the phone but vividly remember her springing the food "contract" on us when we came to pick up our pup. We obliged for ~6 months then stopped, after paying and leaving we had no real contact with Nancy anyway so it turned to be non issue. Unfortunately when our pup was just over 2 he passed away extremely suddenly one minute he was running in a field with more energy then the sun the next he was gone, the vet said it was likely some kind of heart attack or something but we never found out we were so in shock we didn't know what to do. I remember getting some papers and "certifications" on his health from Nancy when we brought him home and we ended up going to the same vet that Nancy did just by luck, however they both never mentioned anything was wrong or could be and maybe 6 months prior to his passing his vet was just "no longer at this clinic". So there's been a lot of heartache and unanswered questions around our little guy. Life happened in between we didn't reach out to Nancy when it happened which with some of her responses here I'm glad we didn't need that coming at us also. I guess I wrote all that because we were thinking of a another pup and nalyn's was first in mind but not any longer. They are some of the most beautiful dogs I've seen which like someone else said is a shame that their breeder is so difficult and deceptive to deal with.


What a sad story. I'm so sorry for your loss of such a young dog. I too was convinced that I had to go back to Nancy to get a dog as beautiful as the one I just lost (got him from her 12 years earlier). Losing my deposit turned out to be worth it because I later realized that she's not the only breeder with beautiful dogs. Once I decided not to go back to her I did a LOT of research on my next puppy and made sure he was as healthy as he could possibly be. And he is gorgeous!!!


----------



## HLNTTIS

GoldenMN said:


> Goldinmyheart - thank you for your PM. I wrote out my LONG story to share with you, but I wasn't able to send it as I am new to the forum and can't send PMs until I have posted a number of times.
> 
> I, too, had a TERRIBLE experience with this breeder. I believe that she is a very unethical breeder and would not recommend anyone enter into a contract with her. Not only that, but she is very rude in her interactions. I did not move forward with a dog that I absolutely fell in love with because of the negative relationship with her.


My husband and I also just had a TERRIBLE experience with this particular breeder. If you go to Google Review of her business, you will find several others sharing similar encounters; i.e. paying the $300 deposits and not getting their puppies in the end. Even our friends had the same experience two years ago. Wish we had known beforehand so we wouldn't have to waste the money and energy. Don't you think there is a pattern here? She is profiting from the heartache of many people.


----------



## Katnip

*Nalyn's Goldens*

I have had a similar experience with Nancy Gratiot, nee Nalyn's Goldens, just recently. She had me fill out what looks like a questionnaire, not a contract. On it, it asks if I would give the puppy Life's Abundance, the dog food she pushes. I was clear on the paperwork and in talking to her that I would not do so. She STILL took my money. Then started playing all kinds of weird games, becoming antagonistic after that. It became very stressful. She had three (3) litters of puppies, and I still don't have a puppy. She wrote that she expects the dog to be on the expensive/mail order food for two years. She wrote and said she expected me to get the mail order dog food, porky puff chews, canned food, skin and coat supplements, vitamins, and treats...all from the company she represents. She even lists quantities. From what I understand, she expects you to mail in the receipts month. Since I am not getting these, I don't get a puppy. And she does this to people over and over and over. I am considering filing a small claims suit against her or possibly a bigger one as this is illegal. (see below). If any other victims of this would like to be a witness in this, please contact me. I feel like someone has to stop this as this sounds like it has been going on for years. I truly wish I would have seen the info on her sooner, but of course, she made it sound like I had to get my deposit down right away as someone else was coming and she had puppies already....

Tying currently is generally deemed per se unlawful only if:

Separate Products: Two separate products or services are involved;
Coercion: The sale or agreement to sell one product or service is conditioned on the buyer’s agreement to purchase another product or service;
Market Power: The seller has sufficient power in the market for the tying product to enable it to restrain competition in the market for the tied product; and
Not Insubstantial Amount of Commerce Affected: The tying arrangement affects a “not insubstantial” amount of commerce.[1]

Coercion
A key element of tying is the forced purchase of a second distinct commodity; in other words, purchasing the tied product is mandatory when purchasing the tying product. What distinguishes illegal tying from legal bundling is the seller's exploitation of its control over the tying product to force the buyer into the purchase of a tied product that the buyer either did not want at all or might have preferred to purchase elsewhere on different terms. Where the buyer is given the option to purchase products individually or as a bundle, and the option to purchase individual products is economically feasible, no tying occurs.


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## WI12345

Katnip said:


> I have had a similar experience with Nancy Gratiot, nee Nalyn's Goldens, just recently. She had me fill out what looks like a questionnaire, not a contract. On it, it asks if I would give the puppy Life's Abundance, the dog food she pushes. I was clear on the paperwork and in talking to her that I would not do so. She STILL took my money. Then started playing all kinds of weird games, becoming antagonistic after that. It became very stressful. She had three (3) litters of puppies, and I still don't have a puppy. She wrote that she expects the dog to be on the expensive/mail order food for two years. She wrote and said she expected me to get the mail order dog food, porky puff chews, canned food, skin and coat supplements, vitamins, and treats...all from the company she represents. She even lists quantities. From what I understand, she expects you to mail in the receipts month. Since I am not getting these, I don't get a puppy. And she does this to people over and over and over. I am considering filing a small claims suit against her or possibly a bigger one as this is illegal. (see below). If any other victims of this would like to be a witness in this, please contact me. I feel like someone has to stop this as this sounds like it has been going on for years. I truly wish I would have seen the info on her sooner, but of course, she made it sound like I had to get my deposit down right away as someone else was coming and she had puppies already....
> 
> Tying currently is generally deemed per se unlawful only if:
> 
> Separate Products: Two separate products or services are involved;
> Coercion: The sale or agreement to sell one product or service is conditioned on the buyer’s agreement to purchase another product or service;
> Market Power: The seller has sufficient power in the market for the tying product to enable it to restrain competition in the market for the tied product; and
> Not Insubstantial Amount of Commerce Affected: The tying arrangement affects a “not insubstantial” amount of commerce.[1]
> 
> Coercion
> A key element of tying is the forced purchase of a second distinct commodity; in other words, purchasing the tied product is mandatory when purchasing the tying product. What distinguishes illegal tying from legal bundling is the seller's exploitation of its control over the tying product to force the buyer into the purchase of a tied product that the buyer either did not want at all or might have preferred to purchase elsewhere on different terms. Where the buyer is given the option to purchase products individually or as a bundle, and the option to purchase individual products is economically feasible, no tying occurs.


I never got to the point where we discussed the food. My last experience with her was attempting to get a puppy from her after my 12 year old died. I had gotten him from her 12 years before that. She took my deposit way before any of her dogs were even pregnant, making me think I would miss out if I didn't get in line right away. She was taking advantage of my grief! Every time I would ask her what my place in line was, she would never give me a straight answer. Every time I talked to her (mostly texts and emails), she seemed more and more strange and dishonest. I noticed when she would reply to emails she never included mine in the reply. She always started a new email. I thought that was interesting. Eventually I got tired of playing games with her and found a puppy elsewhere. I politely asked for my deposit back and she replied with a nasty email, insulting the breeder my puppy was coming from. I chalked the $300 deposit up to "live and learn," and told myself it was worth it to be done with her. I hope people sue her!!! She deserves it!


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## Forluvofgoldens

Reply to Katnip and WI1245


We also had a horrific experience with Nancy and to this day, my 2 year old still does not have registration papers over food. 



When I filled out the first questionnaire, I too had put "would consider" her Life's Abundance crap she pushed. I have always had my dogs on holistic food, but it turns out our little guy had a gastro prolem with the food, so I in conjunction with my vet put him on the food I have always used and he's fine now. BTW-My food rates 1/2 star BETTER than what Nancy is pushing. 



She tried all the same nonsense with me, saying we had signed a contract, blah, blah. She was completely unhinged. She accused me of being cruel, cheap, and insisted that I would give my little guy cancer as she knew that is how I have lost my last 2 Goldens. One aged 11, and the other tragic was only age 8. She tried to manipulate people so she can make more money and she is not fit, in my opinion to be in business any longer.


Interesting to see someone only got new email responses....We had been texting back and forth (she had some CRAZY stuff in there) and I told her I had copied it all (still have and it's printed) to send along to AKC. After I told her that, she changed and started telling me to bring the dog back as she thought I could not afford a dog and was intentionally being cruel, would give him cancer. etc. she would issue refund. 

That did not happen. I will never give back my guy!


Have never heard from her again, still after 2 years have no registration. I did not follow through with sending all the info to AKC, but think I will now. 



I am on board with anyone that wants to take her on, count me in!


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## WISGOLD

*Papers*

We got a lovely dog from Naylan's first time around about 11 years ago that we lost to cancer. We never did get his papers from her even after I sent her all the info to verify we got him altered. We never pushed it as he was just going to be a loved pet. 
When we went to her for our next puppy she told us one price but then said it would cost us more to get him as the mother had to have a c section. Which I do not think should have raised the price of the pup. We had already put our deposit down so did not want to be out of our deposit so just went along with it. 
Our main issue was when we got our pup he had ear mites and only one testicle descended and she just kept telling us to give it time. Well we gave it a year and we ended up having to spend a lot of money to have him neutered because it became now a major surgery to find the other testicle and since I considered it to be a genetic fault I told her about it and all she said was "Well you got a nice dog". We also had been fighting chronic ear infections with him. 
We signed the same contract as far as the food but we also signed a contract for a puppy free of any genetic faults which I believe cryptorchidism is one and since she did not want to honor her contract we quit buying the food. And on the plus side his ear infections have stopped since we went back to using Fromms. I figured if she wanted to take us to court over not buying the food I would counter her suit with selling us a dog that was cryptorchid. 
I also found any correspondence with her was very difficult. We will never get a pup from her again and I do not advise anyone else to either.


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## Prism Goldens

I think it is a shame that such a good food gets bad press due to the breeders who are forcing people to buy it. I use it for my dogs, I use lots of foods for my dogs but this is the only one that's a MLM company- which I suppose might have been the only way they could get their product to market, thinking about it- it'd be nearly impossible to get on store shelves. So I get using this tact, but do think that breeders should not tie a contract or warranty to use of it. After all, the dog is the buyer's dog. They should be able to make choices for their charge. .. as it is today, with the CDM issues /taurine things/and lately, PPP's issue w moths, LA is one of the better foods. It has formulations with no peas and adds taurine. But whether someone uses it or not should be up to them. 
Crypto dogs do have a genetic component to their problem. Many many things play into proper testicle descent and if they are there and then leave the scrotum that is one thing while never making the scrotum is totally another. Lots of things play into proper gubernaculum shrinkage. Absolutely the 'too short cord' is genetic and it takes both sire and dam as far as any research I have been able to find that makes any sort of quantitative deductions. However, we don't have that gene identified (it's not that big a problem to put major money into and IDing it will probably come as a side effect of work on some other thing) and it is probably an incomplete dominance thing imo. But yes- it is genetic.


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## Katnip

Yes, I agree about the dog food. I was just explaining the situation, not trying to be negative about the food itself. I wrote to the company but will have to see if they do anything. I don't think she should be a representative of them. I would hope they would not want such negative/horrible behavior associated with them. 

Kathryn


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## Katnip

AKC doesn't do anything at all. The reason I am thinking of doing what I am doing is to show that what she is doing is not acceptable and very hopefully prevent her from doing it to so many others. It sounds like she has been doing this over and over for years. A lot of families have been hurt. My son wouldn't put his hopes up for our new puppy until we actually picked her up. Nancy went through three litters and would not give us a puppy. She would hang us on a string as "maybe", then get nasty each time. Of course, when I met her, it was after she had the first of the three litters, and I was supposed to hurry and put down a deposit for one of those. 

Kathryn


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## dog lover 298

*Definitely stay away from Nalyns*

We had a similar experience to other reviewers. We love our dog but had an absolutely horrible experience with the process. Nancy was extremely strict with the contract, including mandating purchase of Life's Abundance vitamins and food. Our dog had continued GI problems (diarrhea, vomiting) with this food and instead of allowing us to change simply accused us of feeding him incorrectly. it wasn't until our vet finally contacted her and informed her that medically this was inappropriate that she backed off. Turns out Nancy is a rep for Life's Abundance and gets kickbacks for all purchases associated with her. We complained to Life's Abundance about this and they were aware of multiple complaints against her. Once we finally switched him to a high quality, minimal ingredient dog food he did great. But this was after much hassle including Nancy threatening to take the dog back - I can't imagine doing this to a loving family who just wants the best for their dog. Never got the papers but we've let it go and just don't want any more contact with her. A couple of other things on the initial purchase - she refused to show us a contract in advance, leaving us blindsided when we actually went to pick him up, and then demanded payment in cash, wouldn't even accept a cashier's check. Really shady stuff. Our dog is wonderful, but we would never use Nalyns again


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## Katnip

I had a terrible experience with Nancy. I would not ever ever recommend her.


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