# Swallowing problem.........



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Honestly I'd have it checked by the vet before I'd just treat the symptom. It could the symptom of something rather serious, or it could be nothing at all. I do know as they get older their muscles get more slack and a lot of them will have problems with eating/drinking they never had before, but she's not *that* old, so I'd have it checked out if it continues.
One thing I found with my oldest girl, she might have been about the same age, was that she couldn't eat small sized kibble any more. We have to have larger pieces for her, like what's typical in the large breed formulations.
JMO of course!


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> One thing I found with my oldest girl, she might have been about the same age, was that she couldn't eat small sized kibble any more. We have to have larger pieces for her, like what's typical in the large breed formulations.
> JMO of course!


Interesting. Her kibble is very small. A larger one might be worth trying. Thanks, I'll give it a shot. But I do plan to have her go to the vet if it continues.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I think a trip to the vet is a good idea. If you can try to slow her down with her eating, that might help. One thing when they eat so fast, they dont get the nutrients they need. You can try a brakefast bowl from like Petsmart or some people have put a brick or something heavy in the bowl so they have to slow down to eat around it. I think someone even mentioned a muffin tin.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Not to scare you but I would have her checked. megaesophagus is nothing to let go. You need to get on it immediately.
Praying that is not her problem but better safe than sorry. prayers for your baby.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

> You can try a brakefast bowl from like Petsmart or some people have put a brick or something heavy in the bowl so they have to slow down to eat around it. I think someone even mentioned a muffin tin.


We have a super-fast eater and I've started feeding 90%of his kibble in two middle sized Kongs, no peanut butter plugs, just kibble in the Kong. He takes the first one, finishes it (sometimes spilling it on the floor which takes more time for him to eat), then comes back for his second one, finishes it, then I give him the rest of his food in his bowl. Instead of finishing in 5 seconds and running over to bug my slower eating 12 year old, he takes about 3 to 4 minutes to finish them all. I noticed when he was eating so fast he tended to regurgitate the meal soon afterwards and this new feeding routine has cut that out. I also slow him down by making him sit and wait for each part of his meal. I'm using hand signals as well.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I too think you should have her checked out, but I think her fast eating is at least contributing to the problem.
If you are using the standard silver bowls like I have (dern - I need a picture) turn it upside down and feed her from there. It is harder to get to and will slow her down. Along the same lines of a muffin tin or brick in her bowl.
Good luck with your girl!


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

I'm afraid my girl might have a problem. I added a little warm water to her kibble and she ate it fine but did take a couple of deep swallows when she finished. But didn't throw up. But then I took her down some long steps to my backyard and she had a tough time negotiating the steps. Like she could not see them well. And when I threw the ball to her, she seemed to have a difficult time focusing in on the ball. She's resting fine now next to me in the den.

I live in a small town and we do not have an emergency clinic but I did call my vet and he will be in at 7:00am tomorrow morning for a short time. So I will take her in to let him look at her. Holiday weekend and all so probably won't get any blood work results back soon. But maybe he can get the ball rolling. I can't help but think she may have some kind of tumor or something.


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Fingers crossed that your girl's problem is easily remedied and not something major. Why is it these things always crop up on holiday weekends?


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## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

*megaesophagas*

*Was the first thing I thought of too. Have to had her thyroid checked recently. That can cause it*. You might want to hand feed her smaller kibble until you find out what's wrong. Don't let her drink a bunch of water or run around until 20-30 minutes after she has eaten. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## Jake'sDad (Oct 20, 2007)

The vet check is a very good idea. Farley is 8, eats very fast; we're thinking about doing the muffin tin bit to slow him down a little.
He won't eat just dry kibble though -- insists on some canned stuff with it.


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

Because of her age I would definitely have her x-rayed for Megaesophagus. They will be able to see on the x-ray whether her esophagus is flaccid. If that is the case then they should check her for a tumor on her thymus gland. A tumor on the thymus gland will cause Myasthenias Gravis and one of the outward symptoms of Myasthenias Gravis is Megaesophagus. 

At age 9 yrs my first golden had trouble with keeping her food down (she wasn't vomiting, it was regurgitation) but this issue would come and go so the vet was treating it as a reaction to her Rymadil. It wasn't until she also lost control of her hind end (very wobbly) that I took her to Tuft's Vet School and they took x-rays that found the problem. Good luck :crossfing

Here is some info on the megaesophagus:
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_megaesophagus.html

Here is some info on Myasthenia Gravis:
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_myasthenia_gravis.html

Edited to add: After reading over the article on the Myasthenia Gravis I see that it does affect the eye and facial muscles, too. Here is a portion of the article: 

_ACQUIRED MYASTHENIA GRAVIS. This is a so-called “Autoimmune disease,” meaning that the immune system is destroying neuromuscular junctions as if they were foreign invaders. What muscles are affected depend on which junctions have been destroyed. Therapy centers on stopping this immune reaction and prolonging what acetylcholine activity is still present. This is done with a combination of immunesuppressive agents and medications to inhibit acetylcholinesterase._

_CLINICAL SIGNS / SYMPTOMS

Symptoms center on *muscle weakness affecting the eyes, *muscles of facial expression, throat / esophagus (in dogs), and limbs. This translates into early exercise fatigue (in about 60% of patients), megaesophagus, voice change, or *difficulty swallowing.*

There is an acute form which is rapidly progressive and quickly lethal. This form is associated with “thymoma,” a tumor of the thymus gland (located in the chest)._

_Because Myasthenia gravis is so common,
any dog with general muscle weakness, difficulty swallowing,
or megaesophagus should be tested for Myasthenia gravis._


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

gold'nchocolate said:


> Because of her age I would definitely have her x-rayed for Megaesophagus. They will be able to see on the x-ray whether her esophagus is flaccid. If that is the case then they should check her for a tumor on her thymus gland. A tumor on the thymus gland will cause Myasthenias Gravis and one of the outward symptoms of Myasthenias Gravis is Megaesophagus.
> 
> At age 9 yrs my first golden had trouble with keeping her food down (she wasn't vomiting, it was regurgitation) but this issue would come and go so the vet was treating it as a reaction to her Rymadil. It wasn't until she also lost control of her hind end (very wobbly) that I took her to Tuft's Vet School and they took x-rays that found the problem. Good luck :crossfing
> 
> ...


Good information. Thanks.

I met the vet this morning and he just did some manual exams. Looking down her throat, eye exam, and just feeling her all over. He said it is possible that it could be the early signs of Megaesophagus. I didn't suggest that to him as a possibility, I let him come up with the idea. So he asked me to bring her back Tuesday morning and leave her for the whole day. They will run all the blood work and do xrays. 

As you would have it, she looked fine this morning. I fed her in front of the vet but no swallowing problems. But I'm glad we are jumping on any potential problem early. He said if turns out to be this problem, they do have med's to slow down the process. Hopefully it turns out to be nothing. We will see. He did say this is a fairly common problem with Golden's. I asked about the eye problem and he said the same thing as pointed out above.

Oh yes, he said probably a good idea to feed her just wet food for now. Feed 3 times a day and in an elevated position. I already have Pro Plan salmon and rice so I will go with that for now.


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

My Sam had ME too. He developed aspiration pneumonia, so being careful with food and water is crucial. I was under the impression that larger food pieces were easier to swallow than smaller ones which could be accidentally inhaled. Also, eating while being held in an upright/standing position makes the food less likely to enter the trachia...there is a website for dogs with ME. I believe it's posted here at the Forum. Good luck. I hope your baby does not have ME and is just eating too fast.


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

msdogs1976 said:


> Good information. Thanks.
> As you would have it, she looked fine this morning. I fed her in front of the vet but no swallowing problems. But I'm glad we are jumping on any potential problem early.


I wish I had had this forum when my golden had ME. I probably would have been able to help her from the beginning. I thought she was vomiting. The other thing that I noticed was that she seemed to be having problems with dry foods such as kibble or dog biscuits--she would sort of gag on them as if they were getting stuck or something . I began to feed her canned food and she did much better with that but after awhile she wasn't able to keep even that kind of food down. 

Here is a link to a special chair for dogs with ME:
http://www.geocities.com/bailey_chair/

The other option is to let gravity help and feed her in a bowl that is raised up so she doesn't have to bend her head down to eat. 

I hope that your girl doesn't have it and I will be waiting to see how she makes out at the vet.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

Thanks guys for all the info. I have learned a lot already. I just gave her a midday feeding, elevated. She looked a little confused at first, but adapted. I have noticed a cough after our vet visit. Darn it! But we will tackle this head on. Hopefully she can live with it or what ever it is for some time to come.

I will update Tuesday afternoon after her test. Of course it will take sometime for the blood work to come back but maybe the xrays will tell us something.


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## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

The cough might be from the Vet pushing on her throat. Try not to worry about it unless it gets a lot worse. Sending lots of Golden thoughts and prayers your way !!!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

more importantly than elevating the food is elevating the water bowl until you know what you are dealing with.
The biggest danger for ME or MG is the risk of aspiration pneumonia. 
A customer of mine had a golden with MG, they built a "bailey chair" for him, and it worked wonderfully!
Sadly, he died of aspiration pneumonia about a year later. But he had a GREAT year in the meantime. He was only 3 when he died. His owners said he had a short but glorious life.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

gold'nchocolate said:


> _CLINICAL SIGNS / SYMPTOMS
> 
> *Symptoms center on muscle weakness affecting the eyes, muscles of facial expression, throat / esophagus (in dogs), and limbs. This translates into early exercise fatigue (in about 60% of patients), megaesophagus, voice change, or **difficulty swallowing.
> *
> There is an acute form which is rapidly progressive and quickly lethal. This form is associated with “thymoma,” a tumor of the thymus gland (located in the chest)._


Crap. She has all the the above symptoms. Just took her on a short walk around the block and she was very lethargic. Then I took her in the backyard which has a sloping lot and threw the ball for her to get. She ran for it but fell down as she lost control of her legs. And she shook as she got up. You could tell it scared her so I petted her and let her rest. She did walk in the house OK and is resting on the floor. But it's obvious she has a bad problem. I fed her about an hour earlier and she did fine with that.

I'm keeping her inside and quite tomorrow. I hope she doesn't get an worse before Tuesday. Just my luck tomorrow is a holiday.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

The formal tests for MG can take a long time to come back. Try to convince your vet to treat for it without waiting for the results of the test, or take her to a neurologist. Sometimes they will do a quick office test by basically giving her the drugs that would work if it's MG, and seeing if it makes a difference. Days make a big difference in treating MG.
Take her temp. tonight and tomorrow. If it's elevated, go to the emergency vet because you're dealing with potential pneumonia.
I don't mean to scare you but having seen a golden with MG, it's really important. 
One of the things you will often notice in MG is they appear to be "walking on tip toes" on their front legs.
Be sure to keep her quiet, which you said you will do. 




msdogs1976 said:


> Crap. She has all the the above symptoms. Just took her on a short walk around the block and she was very lethargic. Then I took her in the backyard which has a sloping lot and threw the ball for her to get. She ran for it but fell down as she lost control of her legs. And she shook as she got up. You could tell it scared her so I petted her and let her rest. She did walk in the house OK and is resting on the floor. But it's obvious she has a bad problem. I fed her about an hour earlier and she did fine with that.
> 
> I'm keeping her inside and quite tomorrow. I hope she doesn't get an worse before Tuesday. Just my luck tomorrow is a holiday.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> The formal tests for MG can take a long time to come back. Try to convince your vet to treat for it without waiting for the results of the test, or take her to a neurologist. Sometimes they will do a quick office test by basically giving her the drugs that would work if it's MG, and seeing if it makes a difference. Days make a big difference in treating MG.
> Take her temp. tonight and tomorrow. If it's elevated, go to the emergency vet because you're dealing with potential pneumonia.
> I don't mean to scare you but having seen a golden with MG, it's really important.
> One of the things you will often notice in MG is they appear to be "walking on tip toes" on their front legs.
> Be sure to keep her quiet, which you said you will do.


I think he will go ahead and treat her for it. They are pretty good about being proactive. She didn't have a temp at the vet this morning. But I will check again tomorrow morning. And yes, she does appear to be on tip toes when she walks.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

I am so sorry to read this thread. How old is your dog? Has she just started all of the other symptoms too (tiredness, walking on the tip toes?)


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Am praying for your sweet baby. I would get to the ER vet.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

Debles said:


> I would get to the ER vet.


There is no such thing here.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

and your vet cannot be contacted till Tuesday? How scary!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Ok, FWIW, I wouldn't go to the ER vet anyway because chances are most of them are not familiar with MG and you will end up spending a bunch of money for tests that probably aren't necessary.
As long as she's doing okay, I'd wait until Tuesday, too. Days are very important in MG, but honestly so is stress. You really don't want to stress her out with a trip to the ER vet if it's not going to result in anything positive, plus, as you said, it's not an option for you anyway.
Do you know how to take her temp? A dog's rectal temp should be under 101.5 if they are calm and relaxed. As long as her temp is okay, and she's able to drink, you can keep her quiet until Tuesday and go see your own vet and/or a specialist.
How is she doing this morning?
MG is a grave diagnosis. But it's not a death sentence. The good news is that if it's not tumor related, most dogs will spontaneously recover within a year. If it is tumor related, often it can be treated and they will recover right away.
The meds. for treating MG (mestinon) are expensive, but work very very well.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

Debles said:


> and your vet cannot be contacted till Tuesday? How scary!


I assumed you meant an ER animal clinic like many cities have. We have none.



hotel4dogs said:


> Ok, FWIW, I wouldn't go to the ER vet anyway because chances are most of them are not familiar with MG and you will end up spending a bunch of money for tests that probably aren't necessary.
> As long as she's doing okay, I'd wait until Tuesday, too. Days are very important in MG, but honestly so is stress. You really don't want to stress her out with a trip to the ER vet if it's not going to result in anything positive, plus, as you said, it's not an option for you anyway.
> Do you know how to take her temp? A dog's rectal temp should be under 101.5 if they are calm and relaxed. As long as her temp is okay, and she's able to drink, you can keep her quiet until Tuesday and go see your own vet and/or a specialist.
> How is she doing this morning?
> ...


I checked on her twice last night and she did fine. She did cough and throw up a little before I went to bed, but settled down during the night. I did call a vet friend who works at the clinic I go to this morning and told her what I discussed with her colleague yesterday and updated her on the events after the vet visit. She basically said the same, just to feed her several meals a day in an elevated position. And to keep her quite today. Will take her in first thing tomorrow morning.

So that is the plan for today. Not coughing at the moment. She looks ready to be fed so time to see what happens.:crossfing


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

wish I had thought to tell you this sooner, but the golden that had MG that we boarded here, every time he had his medicine (liquid) we'd "hug" him for about 60 seconds. We'd have him put his front feet up on our shoulders like he's dancing with us, and pet and praise him to keep him upright for the full minute.
You might try it with her today any time she drinks or eats. It can't hurt, and might help a lot.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Praying for your sweet girl.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> wish I had thought to tell you this sooner, but the golden that had MG that we boarded here, every time he had his medicine (liquid) we'd "hug" him for about 60 seconds. We'd have him put his front feet up on our shoulders like he's dancing with us, and pet and praise him to keep him upright for the full minute.
> You might try it with her today any time she drinks or eats. It can't hurt, and might help a lot.





Debles said:


> Praying for your sweet girl.


Thanks all. Good tip on the standing tall. I've seen the step ladder feeding method but just can't see her doing that for 15 minutes after being fed. I have elevated the feeding and will try the 60 sec tip. 

She is resting well this morning. Very little coughing. So hopefully no throwing up today.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Ten years ago, my heart golden, Max was misdiagnosed by our vet and then obviously treated incorrectly. The vet was treating him for kennel cough (he hadn't been around any dogs to catch this) and by the time we got him to another vet who diagnosed him with megaesophagus, it was too late (except for possibly a feeding tube, which we would not do to our weak twelve year old boy who also had aspiration pneumonia)
The other vet had not been treating his hypothyroid correctly either which resulted in the complication of seizures and megaespohagus. We quickly then changed vets.

I have to live with the fact that my ignorance/lack of correct info led to my poor boy's suffering and death. I do not ever want to see that happen to someone else.
I'm sorry if I seemed judgmental about your vet situation. It sounds like you are doing all you can for your girl and like I said, I am sending prayers.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

Debles said:


> I have to live with the fact that my ignorance/lack of correct info led to my poor boy's suffering and death. I do not ever want to see that happen to someone else.
> I'm sorry if I seemed judgmental about your vet situation. It sounds like you are doing all you can for your girl and like I said, I am sending prayers.


No problem. The vet immediately mentioned ME when I told them of her symptoms. So I feel like they will be on top of it. Obviously I hope it turns out to be something minor, but can't imagine what that would be.

She had a pretty good day. Rested well, coughed very very little and no throwing up. But she can't catch a ball very well and is a little unstable if she tries to run. Tried not to let her do that today. Ate well though. I rolled up her wet food in meat ball form and had her stand with her feet on my recliner and fed her one by one. So she couldn't eat fast and gravity could do it's thing by being up high. Not a big deal either so that method won't be bad if it is what I need to do. :


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

I'm just finding this thread again. I'm sorry you're going through this, but at least you know what you're dealing with. Another thing I was told, was to keep Sam calm and cool. Excessive heat would cause panting which could irritate an already affected throat. If you have a cooler portion of your home, that might be the best place for her to be. Sam cooled himself on our slate floors. This is bringing back some sad and not so sad memories for me. Sam was diagnosed just as he turned 11. He lived to be 12 years 5 months and 7 days...though it was aspiration pneumonia that finally took him....the xrays revealed he had a tumor near his heart also. If the ME had not become a fatal condition for him, I might have addressed the tumor and possible cancer...though at his age?


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

How did you make out at the vets? :crossfing


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## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

I am wondering too ????


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

gold'nchocolate said:


> How did you make out at the vets? :crossfing


Well not so good. He showed me the xray and she does indeed have a dilated esophagus. So he is chalking it up to Megaesophagus. Blood work due back tomorrow. He says it's possible she has a thyroid problem which can easily be treated and could help with her limb weakness. I asked about drugs for the ME and he said there are some but he hasn't seen them do much for the problem so he wasn't recommending those. 

Looks like this may be your typical small town vet clinic and may not be on top of some of the treatments as discussed here. I'm going to printout some of the information from the links provided here and discuss again with him tomorrow when we discuss the blood results. If I want to pursue some of these treatments like Mestinon, I may have to go to the state University vet school located 100 miles from here. I also know most anything done there cost a lot. Hate to bring up cost but that is something I have to consider.

I'll update again tomorrow. Thanks for the concern from all.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Keeping you all in our thoughts and prayers.


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

Oh dear, hoping for a positive outcome. Sometimes our smaller town vets have better answers.


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## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

I know this probably sounds bad and scary to you, but there are a lot worse things it could have been. This should be treatable, especially if it's thyroid.Do your research so you know what the Drs are talking about (it sounds like you have already started) Good luck and keep us posted!!


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

Abbydabbydo said:


> Oh dear, hoping for a positive outcome. Sometimes our smaller town vets have better answers.


I probably shouldn't have said that. I just got off the phone with a good friend who has several horses and dogs. He has used several vets in the area and he feels this guy is as smart as any around. But he said if I wanted a second opinion the vet school would be a good choice. 

So we will see how tomorrow goes.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm sorry to hear the news wasn't better. Be sure to continue to hold her upright after she eats, and feed her small amounts, elevated, while awaiting the results.
The real issue is that ME is not usually the primary diagnosis. The question is, what caused the ME in the first place? The most common cause in dogs younger than about 10 years old is MG.
Can you call the university hospital and tell them that you are looking at a "possible" Myasthenia Gravis diagnosis, tell them what tests have already been done, and ask them for an estimate?
I believe the in office test for MG isn't all that expensive, basically they administer a drug and if it works, they use MG as a working diagnosis. Chances are your vet already pulled the blood work for it.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> I'm sorry to hear the news wasn't better. Be sure to continue to hold her upright after she eats, and feed her small amounts, elevated, while awaiting the results.
> The real issue is that ME is not usually the primary diagnosis. The question is, what caused the ME in the first place? The most common cause in dogs younger than about 10 years old is MG.
> Can you call the university hospital and tell them that you are looking at a "possible" Myasthenia Gravis diagnosis, tell them what tests have already been done, and ask them for an estimate?
> I believe the in office test for MG isn't all that expensive, basically they administer a drug and if it works, they use MG as a working diagnosis. Chances are your vet already pulled the blood work for it.


I'll check on it and plan to ask my vet today. If he is hesitant to pursue it, I will follow up with the the vet school. Thanks for all the info.

It's interesting that one of the links provided here says that if MG is the cause of the ME she has, that it is a high probability that it will go into remission on it's own. Am I mis-reading that?

*Myasthenia gravis often goes into remission without treatment. In one study of 53 dogs, 89% went into remission an average of 6.4 months (and within 18 months) after diagnosis. *


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

I'm sorry that you've confirmed ME, but it's treatable, that's the good news. Once you've adjusted to her condition, it will become ordinary and she should be able to have a perfectly happy life.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

That's correct, but the "without treatment" is misleading.
You will treat the SYMPTOMS with mestinon while the disease is still active. You don't treat the disease itself with high dose steroids or other immune suppressing drugs like you would with other autoimmune diseases. 
If the dose of mestinon is correct, you will, for the most part, not even be aware that she has the disease although you will still have to be careful with her swallowing. 




msdogs1976 said:


> I'll check on it and plan to ask my vet today. If he is hesitant to pursue it, I will follow up with the the vet school. Thanks for all the info.
> 
> It's interesting that one of the links provided here says that if MG is the cause of the ME she has, that it is a high probability that it will go into remission on it's own. Am I mis-reading that?
> 
> *Myasthenia gravis often goes into remission without treatment. In one study of 53 dogs, 89% went into remission an average of 6.4 months (and within 18 months) after diagnosis. *


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

Blood test shows a low thyroid level so he prescribed a drug for that. Hopefully that will perk her up.:crossfing Also prescribed metoclopramide which is suppose to help in the digestive process. Also suggested taking a tagamet twice daily. 

The test for MG is in the works but will be a few days for that to come back. He admitted he has not tested a lot of dogs for MG, but the the ones he did test all came back negative. So I got the feeling he would be surprised if she has it. But we will see. He did say Mestinon would be the drug to treat it with. 

So that is where we are. I'm feeding her 4 times a day all elevated. And lifting her up for 60 seconds as previously suggested. Water elevated too. Oh yes, xray's showed arthritis in her lower back area and she has it in her front legs. Poor girl, getting old like her daddy.


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

I don't have an ounce of advice but it sounds like you are doing everything right and I've been following this thread and pulling hard for the both of you. Please continue to keep us posted.


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

I don't want to scare you but the cause of ME in my dog was MG. It was the tumor on her thymus gland that caused the MG which in turn brought about the ME. Is the vet checking for a tumor?

Sasha's symptoms were many weeks of sporadic episodes of regurgitation (I thought she was vomiting) and then she began to show signs of not being able to control her hind end. It was very wobbly and weak. This also was just every now and then. Whenever I would get her to the vet it seemed as if her symptoms would go away. Finally, on a Friday night I took her to the Tuft's Vet College ER. They found the ME right away. She was also wobbly that night so they told me that she would have to stay for more tests (they suspected the tumor). They also said that once the symptoms present themselves it is a quick decline. She passed away in less than a week. 

My vet told me that in over 20 yrs of being a vet he had never seen a case of MG, since it's not that common. Hopefully your dog will not have the tumor but I can't stress enough to you to have the vet check for the tumor. I'm pretty sure it would show up on an X-ray.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

gold'nchocolate said:


> I don't want to scare you but the cause of ME in my dog was MG. It was the tumor on her thymus gland that caused the MG which in turn brought about the ME. Is the vet checking for a tumor?
> 
> Sasha's symptoms were many weeks of sporadic episodes of regurgitation (I thought she was vomiting) and then she began to show signs of not being able to control her hind end. It was very wobbly and weak. This also was just every now and then. Whenever I would get her to the vet it seemed as if her symptoms would go away. Finally, on a Friday night I took her to the Tuft's Vet College ER. They found the ME right away. She was also wobbly that night so they told me that she would have to stay for more tests (they suspected the tumor). They also said that once the symptoms present themselves it is a quick decline. She passed away in less than a week.
> 
> My vet told me that in over 20 yrs of being a vet he had never seen a case of MG, since it's not that common. Hopefully your dog will not have the tumor but I can't stress enough to you to have the vet check for the tumor. I'm pretty sure it would show up on an X-ray.


I asked if he saw any tumors and he said no. Whether a different type of xray needs to be done over what he took, I don't know. He also said the xray showed she does not have pneumonia. Looks like that shows he was looking at more than just the esophagus. 

I don't know what to say. He actually was the one to suggest the test for MG today, although I was prepared to suggest it if he didn't. As I've mentioned before, she has already shown signs of weakness in her limbs so if she has a tumor on the thymus gland......looks like she is already doomed. 

I will be giving her the drugs as I mentioned and wait for the MG results. That's all I know to do other than just firing the vet and going to the vet school. And I'm not going to do that.

I do appreciate all the suggestions.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I am so sorry you and your sweet girl are going through this.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

please don't think she's doomed if she has a tumor. Already it's been about a week, right? and she's not declining rapidly?
MG has 2 causes, one is autoimmune and the other a tumor. Most times the autoimmune will spontaneously resolve, as you read in that link. Many times the tumor can be treated, depending on its size and location.
Will keep good thoughts in mind for you. Please keep us updated.


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

hotel4dogs said:


> please don't think she's doomed if she has a tumor. Already it's been about a week, right? and she's not declining rapidly?


I didn't want you to feel doomed :no:. Luckily, you are finding help for her right after she *started* with the symptoms. I wasted *months* trying to figure out what was wrong so that is why I think Sasha died. I feel that maybe if her tumor had been found earlier she would have had a successful outcome. 

The internet is a wonderful thing, enabling you to do research on these things and getting a head start. I didn't have a computer when my dog got sick but shortly after she passed I got my first computer so that I could learn about this "mystery" disease. That's how I found this wonderful forum.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

Well she is more perky this morning. Hard to believe the thyroid meds have had a chance to kick in that quick but I hope this is a sign of good things to come. The last couple of days, I have been having to pull her front legs up on my recliner to get her elevated when feeding. Today she jumped right up on her own. Also walked in the yard much better when going to the bathroom. 

I'm not going to let her get too active though. But if she does come around and get back to a normal active level........I wonder if it will be OK to let her run and play hard? Or will she always need to keep a low profile? Getting ahead of myself but just curious.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

you need to keep her quiet until all the test results are back in. If it's autoimmune MG, keeping her quiet will make a big difference until you can get her started on the correct meds.
After the test results are back in, if it's autoimmune MG, you will quickly find out what she can and can't do. Most dogs can go back to a *fairly* normal activity level once the meds. dose is okay. You will know if she's over-doing it because you will see her start to wobble a little, or walk on tippie-toes, and then you will know to back off a bit for the next day or so.


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## Swanolck (Jan 17, 2007)

Glad to hear your girl is feeling better today.

At least it looks like you are getting some answers. The only testing facility for MG is in California (i think) and usually takes a week to get the results. 

Sending get well wishes for your girl.


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

It's really good to hear that your girl is perkier today. A word of advice: don't get too far ahead of yourself on something like this. When my Cody was diagnosed with degenerative myelopathy (essentially canine MS), I had him paralyzed the next day (in my mind, of course). After seeing a variety of vets, researching the heck out of the disease, I realized that every dog is different, so you just need to take it one day at a time. My perspective was each day was a "new normal", so I tried not to regret what he could no longer do. Your pup will let you know what she can do and what's too much. You're a good owner, you'll notice


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I have been following this thread, but had not posted in it. I just want to send my good thoughts your way. The only part I can speak on with some background knowledge is the thyroid issue. It normally takes 6-8 weeks for the levels to really reach where they need to be and for them to start feeling better. I wonder if the meds he gave you to settle her stomach is what is making her feel better today? Either way, I am very happy she is feeling a bit perkier!


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

I grinned when you described her jumping up on your lap for her meal. She must be enjoying the mealtime attention. I was told to keep Sam cooled and calm and discourage barking so not to irritate his throat. I was also told to keep him from swimming...though I doubt your girl is swimming if she's not feeling well. Sam had been swimming before I realized his cough was more than a cold. My fingers are crossed that she has a good quality of life ahead of her. Sam lived a year and a half after his diagnosis.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

Yes, I'm keeping her quite. She's no where near 100%, just feeling a little better. I'd say on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the best, she's around a 7. At her lowest point around 6. 

So, day by day we go. Maybe the MG test will be back by the middle of next week. Go from there. Thanks for your supportive responses.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Praying for your sweet girl and glad she is feeling alittle better.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

paula bedard said:


> I grinned when you described her jumping up on your lap for her meal. She must be enjoying the mealtime attention. I was told to keep Sam cooled and calm and discourage barking so not to irritate his throat. I was also told to keep him from swimming...though I doubt your girl is swimming if she's not feeling well. Sam had been swimming before I realized his cough was more than a cold. My fingers are crossed that she has a good quality of life ahead of her. Sam lived a year and a half after his diagnosis.


Yes, I think she does enjoy the new feeding schedule. The rolled up canned meat balls makes her very happy. No swimming although just 2 weeks ago we went on a 4 mile hike and swimming trip. Same place as in my signature photo. And she handled the exercise just fine. Amazing how quick they can go down.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

I'm afraid my girl has taken a couple of steps backward. Very listless. Tough for her to even go to the bathroom. Tinkle not much of a problem, but poops wear her out. Has even fallen doing that. Coughs a little here and there, but not too bad. Still does not have a temp, so that is good. And she still enjoys eating her canned meat balls. Ate this morning, but her water intake has slowed a lot. 

I'm going to call the vet tomorrow morning to update him. See if any adjustments can be made. I'm sure the thyroid med's take awhile to kick in, but if she gets to the point of not being able to go potty......were in deep trouble. We already are, I guess.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

We will say a prayer for her. Hope she is going to be ok.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Praying for your sweet girl. Hugs.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Hoping your dear girl pulls through for you- keep us updated!


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

She did perk up again today. Ate well, took her potty breaks with no problem and wagged her tail when visiting my mom today. So a good day.

I guess she's going to have good and bad days with this disease. So I better get used to it. Boy I'm a wuss. :agree: I'll only report back when there is any significant change, for the better or worse. Thanks again.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Post whenever you want support or need some ears to listen or shoulders to lean on. It's a scary time when you don't know what to expect day to day.... many of us have been there ( perhaps no with the same disease, but with other problems), and know how much someone to listen or give opinions can be. Hugs and prayers coming from us.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

Well my vet called just a little while ago and she said my girl did test positive for Myasthenia gravis. So they will get me a prescription for some med's to treat for this. Might be too late as my golden is very weak. But she was like this 2 days ago and bounced back yesterday, but slid this afternoon. 

I guess this is somewhat positive news as she can now begin the proper treatments. Just hope not too late. :crossfing


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

It is NOT too late.
The meds will make a huge difference and very quickly.
But it will take some time to tweak her doses and get it sorted out for her. 
Keep in mind that MG more often than not goes into remission.
When she has a bad day, keep her quiet, and know that the next day will be a better one. You will quickly notice that the bad days are tied to her activity level, which is why they tend to follow good days.
The only *good news*, if there is any, is that MG can be controlled whereas megaesophagus unrelated to MG cannot be, and there are no drugs for ME without MG. 
We're all here for you any time you want to post!!


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

We are here for you. Hope the meds start working and she has alot more great days than bad.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

To be very honest, that is good news. Like hotel said, MG can be treated and she can go into remission. 

There is no cure for megaesophagus alone.

I am praying for your sweet girl to recover.


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## Duke's Momma (Mar 1, 2007)

I'm sorry. I know it's hard to watch them get sick, then better, then sick. I am afraid I don't know anything at all about MG, but will be praying for your sweet girl.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

The single most important thing to remember with MG is that dogs do not die of MG...they die of aspiration pneumonia associated with swallowing problems.
You need to learn the EARLIEST signs of AP, and be constantly on the lookout for it and it needs to be treated aggressively with very strong antibiotics at the first signs of it. 
Let us know how she's doing today!


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> The single most important thing to remember with MG is that dogs do not die of MG...they die of aspiration pneumonia associated with swallowing problems.
> You need to learn the EARLIEST signs of AP, and be constantly on the lookout for it and it needs to be treated aggressively with very strong antibiotics at the first signs of it.
> Let us know how she's doing today!


I'm watching her close. So far since I have been elevating her when eating, no throwing up. But my concern right now is getting her perked up enough to be able to walk outside and go potty. She is at her lowest point that I have seen her. About to feed her and then take her outside to give it a shot. I'm literally going to have to pick her up and take her outside and hope she has enough energy to tinkle. That is how weak she is. 

I hope the med's work quickly. The vet said the med's are not that readily available here but they plan to call all the drug stores this morning. Might have to be ordered which could take another day. Hopefully some drug store will have it.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

The friend of mine whose golden (at age 2) had severe MG had to carry him outside to potty and hold him up to do so. He would just lie on his side, and his breathing muscles were also effected.
After the first day on the meds., he was zooming around the house.
Be careful not to let her overdo until you figure out her tolerance.
Also, no matter how good her eating seems, hold her upright in a hug (dance with her!) for as long as she'll let you after she eats or drinks. It's really critical in making sure the food/water ends up where it's supposed to. If you can work her up to a couple of minutes, that's great. With him, they were told the water is more of a problem than the food. The did not give him unlimited access to water (he had a very, very severe case and had to be fed in a Bailey chair), but rather would offer him water several times thru the day, and then hold him upright after he drank to be sure it went down the right way. You could literally hear it "gurgle" when it went down.
I assume the drug they're giving you is mestinon? Do you have any university (human) hospitals? They might have access to it, it's used in human conditions, too.
Also, these people (their dog had aspiration pneumonia several times) got the vet to give them injectable antibiotics which they kept onhand in case he started to show signs of AP when the vet wasn't available. It saved his life twice. You might want to discuss with your vet having an "emergency kit" onhand, have your vet educate you in the signs of AP, and then if, for example, on a Saturday afternoon you notice the signs of AP you don't have to wait until Monday morning to deal with it, by which time I hate to tell you what will likely have happened....
I hope I don't sound condescending telling you all this. I mean to help as much as possible, not a lot of vets or owners have experience dealing with this.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Also, if she's that low today, take her temp. Don't just assume the MG is always the culprit, although chances are it is. 
If you don't have one, invest in a good quick-read digital thermometer, I think they're about $15 or so. Well worth having. 
If you see her temp start to go up AT ALL, you're in a crisis situation with AP.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

sorry for the constant posts...but just as a point of education, MG is one of the autoimmune diseases.
In MG, the "connection" between the nerves and the muscles is attacked by the immune system. So basically, the nerves can't tell the muscles what to do, and you see a loss of muscle use. Because it's autoimmune, things that stimulate the immune system (stress, overtired, vaccinations, etc) will cause the disease to flare and get temporarily worse.
The drug they use to treat it, Mestinon, basically prevents the breakdown of the signals between the muscles and nerves.
These people found that the dosing was easier with the liquid form, plus they could be assured that he "got it", whereas the pill might be sitting somewhere in his esophagus (he had ME real badly). 
Another thing to know, the symptoms of too much mestinon are IDENTICAL to the symptoms of the MG itself. Not all vets know that, you have to be the educator here. So if the disease appears to flare, you might want to discuss with the vet whether the problem is too much mestinon. This is especially true if the disease is going into remission and the mestinon dose needs to be adjusted downward.
Is there a veterinary teaching school that your vet can consult with? They will have neurologists there who have seen and treated MG and most are quite willing to consult with other vets at no charge.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> sorry for the constant posts...but just as a point of education, MG is one of the autoimmune diseases.
> In MG, the "connection" between the nerves and the muscles is attacked by the immune system. So basically, the nerves can't tell the muscles what to do, and you see a loss of muscle use. Because it's autoimmune, things that stimulate the immune system (stress, overtired, vaccinations, etc) will cause the disease to flare and get temporarily worse.
> The drug they use to treat it, Mestinon, basically prevents the breakdown of the signals between the muscles and nerves.
> These people found that the dosing was easier with the liquid form, plus they could be assured that he "got it", whereas the pill might be sitting somewhere in his esophagus (he had ME real badly).
> ...


My vet's graduated from Miss State Univ Vet School so they do have the contacts there(90 miles from here). And they did mention that a liquid form would be used first and probably at a lower dose to begin with and adjusted from there. So sounds like they are on the same page with you. I will mention the too much of the drug side effect though.

Thanks for the info.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> The friend of mine whose golden (at age 2) had severe MG had to carry him outside to potty and hold him up to do so. He would just lie on his side, and his breathing muscles were also effected.
> After the first day on the meds., he was zooming around the house.
> Be careful not to let her overdo until you figure out her tolerance.
> 
> I assume the drug they're giving you is mestinon?


Funny, after just one dose of the med, she was 1000% better by late afternoon. I took her outside to go potty and she was moving great and ready to run. But I did keep her quite. Time will tell as to the proper dose. But the early results are good. I take her back for a follow up blood workup in a month and a new xray. So plan to keep her pretty quite until then.

Thanks for the info.


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Great to hear your girl has perked up with the medication. What a relief for you!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm sooo glad to hear she's doing well with the meds., it's exactly what you'd expect to see and it reconfirms the diagnosis.
The mestinon gives them a GREAT quality of life. Cheers!!!!!


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I'm so glad to hear your girl is improving with the meds. What a relief.
Please keep us updated. : )
I know it is still stressful to be watching and being alert for danger signs.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

Debles said:


> I'm so glad to hear your girl is improving with the meds. What a relief.
> Please keep us updated. : )
> I know it is still stressful to be watching and being alert for danger signs.


She has improved quite a bit and is getting around in a normal manner. Still not tons of energy, but no more wobbly legs and feels well enough to bring me her toys to play with her. Her thyroid is low so maybe that has something to do with it. She hasn't been on thyroid med's very long.

I work hard at elevated feeding and watering. I try to get her to stay upright for as long as I can, but she will only do it for a couple of minutes. I do get her to sit and pet her which helps get the food on down, but she will only sit for a couple of minutes. So not the desired 15 minutes I have read about, maybe 4-5 minutes total. Good results on not puking up food or water during the day. But every morning around 4:00am, she regurgitates a little saliva/water. Not sure how I can overcome that. I read somewhere that they swallow their saliva all day long so almost impossible to be elevated for that. I try not give much water after 6:00pm but do give her knox blocks for a water source at that time. Those are suppose to go down better than just water and I elevate for that.

So that's about it. Doing better but would like to eliminate the early morning regurgitation. Any tips are welcomed.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

Just when I think I have a good formula going for dealing with ME, a major set back occurs. Aspiration pneumonia.

The last couple of nights she has had a little coughing up of saliva/water. Last night more than usual. I took her temp yesterday and it was normal and she ate well so I'm thinking she's OK. This morning she had a 103.2 temp and no appetite, so off we go to the vet. The vet comes to the conclusion it is AP and gives her a shot and a prescription for antibiotics. She really looked pitiful by time I got her home. But this afternoon she settled down, breathing normal again and resting well. And she ate all her morning food mid afternoon plus water.

Overall very disappointing and frustrating. Just a week after getting her on the right med's for MG, this happens. My hope was to keep her in pretty good shape with hopes she might go into remission at some point. My vet said she can count on one hand how many dogs she has seen go into remission. Totally opposite of what I read from the links provided earlier in this thread. I'm certainly going to try and get my golden perked up again, but I'm not going to let her suffer either. Pretty depressing day.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Praying*

So sorry to hear this.

Praying for your girl. Keep us posted!


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## Duke's Momma (Mar 1, 2007)

Ah, shoot, MSG. I've read all the posts and I know how disheartening this must be. Don't give up on her! Goldens are fighters. But you know that - how old is your girl? I don't remember if you ever said.

Again, I know nothing about MG but according to what everyone else has said, it sounds like you're doing all the right things. I just can't help wondering, though, if the reason you can't keep her elevated for very long is because she's in pain from the arthritis. You might want to check with your vet about some anti-inflam - meticam or the like. 

Gosh I'm sorry!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

The AP really sucks. It's the biggest problem with MG. BUT they come out of it, they really do. She'll be okay. Give the drugs a couple of days to work. 
At this point you might want to look into a Bailey chair. This other golden adapted to it really well, and it kept him from getting AP. It does take some training to get them used to it.
I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. It's great that you knew to watch for the AP and that you got on top of it quickly, it will help her a lot!
Hugs and best wishes.
BTW, autoimmune diseases, both human and canine, are like this. They're a roller coaster ride. I'm sorry.


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