# Raw diet increase chance of intestinal worms?



## o0Shaz0o (Aug 21, 2012)

Hey all,

So getting a puppy before Christmas and wanting to do the raw/natural diet. 

I have heard this means my puppy may be at increased risk to get intestinal worms? Myth? If not, what should I do to decrease this?


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I've never had problems but my Heartworm preventive covers intestinal worms in any event.

Honestly I am way more concerned with the steady list of recalls on commercial kibble.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

We have fed 100% raw since '98 and have never had any incidence of worms in any of the dogs.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

No it is a myth, but unless you know what you are doing, your dog will not get a balanced and complete diet, and I would avoid raw feeding a puppy.

Don't take this the wrong way, but the fact you asked that question suggests that your puppy would be better off on a good kibble.


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

I think this must be a myth. I feed both my Goldens raw and I have not had a problem with worms. The only time that Layla has had tapes, she was on dry food.

On the topic of feeding raw, Jade is my first puppy to start out with raw. I switched Layla to raw after she developed food allergies and I saw how well Jade is responding to the raw. Do your research. If you are unsure about how to meet the proper dietary needs and nutritional requirements for your puppy, I highly highly suggest feeding a commercial raw diet. I feed a commercial raw diet that contains meat, organ meat, ground bones, and raw veggies. I add a good multivitamin, probiotics, and salmon oil to Jade's food. Layla gets a multivitamin, glucosamine, taurine, l-carnitine, and coconut oil with her food. Yes, it does take much more time (and attention to sanitation issues) than just scooping kibble, but I think the way my kids look, their high level of energy, and body condition all speaks for itself.


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## Blondie (Oct 10, 2009)

Friends of ours recently embraced their new puppy into their family. They signed a contract for raw feeding only. The puppy is doing fantastic following the raw protocol.


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## o0Shaz0o (Aug 21, 2012)

Sunrise: I agree!

AmbikaGR: Good to hear! I am assuming you use a wormer?

WasChampionFan: I appreciate you taking the time to comment on my post. However, I am not sure why asking this question would be a contraindication for me feeding my puppy raw, unless you are assuming this is a basic question that all people should know or suggests my lack of education in the area?

My breeder is feeding raw to her puppies and dogs. I find your suggestion of a good commercial diet a substandard option and would rather educate myself (which is why I am here) on feeding raw/natural diet, guided by more experienced people, than feed commercial kibble. When you know better, you do better, raw is better than commericial (in my opinion) and that is what my pup will be getting. 

From my research, whilst most people claim it is a "myth", raw meat often contains cysts which are part of the cycle of some worms (particularly tapworms). Cooking obviously destroys these cysts. From researching around, it seems there appears to be risk of feeding raw, including salmonella.

goldengirls: Thanks for all those supplements! That is very handy and some I had not heard of. What are the types of sanatation precautions you incorporate? 

Blondie: Thanks for that feedback. I know many breeders around my way feed raw. And why not? Makes sense.


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

I have been feeding raw since 2000 and have never had any problems with worms.


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## Always51 (Feb 19, 2012)

I feed raw to both my cat and dog..so as you know in Australia you can do it yourself or get a commercial raw diet like Barf or Big Dog (tho much more expensive) and also the other alternative of adding something like Vets all natural to meat..Napoleon does not have worms as he does get wormed and I've never had any problem. Congrats on getting your puppy soon ..cant wait to see pics..


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

o0Shaz0o said:


> From my research, whilst most people claim it is a "myth", raw meat often contains cysts which are part of the cycle of some worms (particularly tapworms). Cooking obviously destroys these cysts. From researching around, it seems there appears to be risk of feeding raw, including salmonella.


I chose not to go raw after an extensive talk with my vet. She's an e-vet and felt that she had seen too many cases of foodborne illness (i.e., salmonella and e. coli) and obstructions from raw bones. She also said they regularly saw broken teeth on dogs who were fed raw meaty bones.

However, I know lots and lots of raw feeders, and I've never once heard of them getting worms more often than any other dog. While I'm sure the risks are higher than with cooked kibble, simply because of the basic fact that cooking would kill parasites and eggs, I don't think you should really worry about it. Of all the things that can go wrong with food, raw or otherwise, worms are a low frequency, low risk (i.e., highly treatable) threat.

You have to balance the risk of foodborne illness (worms, bacteria, etc.) against the other risks of food. It's true that dogs are more likely to be exposed to salmonella when fed raw, but bad batches of kibble have sickened and killed dogs too, and there have even been occasional cases where kibble was contaminated with salmonella after it was cooked and it had to be recalled.

So while it's not for us, raw is certainly a legitimate option. Talk to your vet and to the raw feeders on the forum about the real things that can go wrong with raw feeding and how the experienced raw feeders avoid them (good food handling practices, etc.). There are GRF folks who've fed raw for years and years and have probably seen it all.

Or if, like us, you decide that the risks and benefits associated with raw are outweighed by the risks and benefits associated with kibble, choose a good AAFCO certified kibble with plenty of fat and protein and keep your eye on the recall notices.


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

By keeping thing sanitary, I mean that I do not keep the raw food out any longer than when I am taking raw food from my food container and putting it into my dogs' bowls. I use plastic silverware that I can dispose of. I prepare the food away from all other human food. I prepare my raw in the garage on the workbench. I lay down newspaper, then an old cookie sheet. I put foil down on top of the cookie sheet. I have one knife that I use only for the raw to cut the chubs open. I sterilize the measuring cup and food bowls immediately after use. I wrap up the foil and all other trash and take it to the dumpster. I wash my hands immediately after every meal I give to the dogs.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

And I am the opposite, about all I do is wash my hands. Fix it right on the counter by the kitchen sink. Been feeding raw 8 years and no issues so far.


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## newport (Aug 8, 2011)

I have been feeding raw for many years and several dogs. Never had worms or any kind of problem. Just very healthy dogs who all lived to ripe old ages!


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## Laurie (Sep 20, 2009)

Loisiana said:


> And I am the opposite, about all I do is wash my hands. Fix it right on the counter by the kitchen sink. Been feeding raw 8 years and no issues so far.


 
I was thinking the same thing about myself!! :uhoh: I prepare it on my kitchen island, use the same cutlery as we use (washed of course). I do disinfect my counter after preparing the dogs' meals and wash their bowls with hot soapy water after each meal. I've been feeding raw for 2 years and no issues here either.


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## newport (Aug 8, 2011)

goldengirls550 said:


> By keeping thing sanitary, I mean that I do not keep the raw food out any longer than when I am taking raw food from my food container and putting it into my dogs' bowls. I use plastic silverware that I can dispose of. I prepare the food away from all other human food. I prepare my raw in the garage on the workbench. I lay down newspaper, then an old cookie sheet. I put foil down on top of the cookie sheet. I have one knife that I use only for the raw to cut the chubs open. I sterilize the measuring cup and food bowls immediately after use. I wrap up the foil and all other trash and take it to the dumpster. I wash my hands immediately after every meal I give to the dogs.


 
The raw I buy is HUMAN GRADE quality. Should treat it just like you treat any raw meat. I do not prepare my raw meat for myself in the garage on a workbench?? Where are you getting your raw meat that it would be so contaminated??


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

I have been feeding raw for 12 years and have not had worms 

I have also weaned 4 litters of puppies to raw food and they have grown up healthy and sound with no issues... There is no reason that you can't feed a puppy raw ....


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## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

I make a strong effort to keep things pretty sanitary too, although I don't prepare outside of the house, I do feed outside to keep raw food from getting on the floor. My wife is less than enthusiastic that I feed 1/2 raw, as opposed to exclusively kibble, but if she or my kids got salmonella poisoning, I think I'd get a lot more pushback on doing it.


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## goldhaven (Sep 3, 2009)

o0Shaz0o said:


> My breeder is feeding raw to her puppies and dogs.


That is one of the best resources. If your breeder is already feeding raw, she should be able to let you know exactly how and what to feed the pup. 



o0Shaz0o said:


> From my research, whilst most people claim it is a "myth", raw meat often contains cysts which are part of the cycle of some worms (particularly tapworms). Cooking obviously destroys these cysts. From researching around, it seems there appears to be risk of feeding raw, including salmonella.


This is one of the websites that I referred to often when I was researching raw feeding. I hope you find it as helpful as I did. I worried about e coli and salmonella and this answered my questions and made sense to me. 
Myths About Raw: Will the bacteria in raw meat hurt my dog?

I researched for about 3 years before I finally switched my dogs. When I finally switched, I found it to be so much easier than I had anticipated and wished that I had done it sooner. I am currently feeding 4 dogs raw. I chose the whole prey model diet. Two of the biggest challenges that I found were food sources and storage. I purchased a 15 cubit ft. chest freezer that houses only my dogs food. I get my meat in bulk from several different sources about once a month or every other month. I then separate it, weigh it out, and bag it in ziploc freezer bags. Each bag contains one meal for one dog. I take the bags out the night before and it is thawed and fed in the morning.

I also do all of my bagging and cutting up on the kitchen counter using my everyday kitchen utensils. Everything is then cleaned and disinfected until the next month batch of meat comes in. 

I did have to change how I fed my dogs. I used to feed them in their crates, but with raw, I didn't want the mess in the house so they are now fed on the back deck with the gate closed. I tried feeding them in the yard but occasionally they will try to hide their food for later and I prefer to know what and how much they are eating. I also switched food dishes. I bought all large stainless steel, no rubber. I didn't want them to be able to harbor bacteria. All the dishes are picked up as soon as they are finished and put through the dishwasher in the sanitize cycle daily. 

Do you know what type of raw feeding your breeder is doing? I have found that most people that feed raw also tend to start to question some of the other things that go into their dogs bodies, things like vaccines. Do you know what your breeders vaccine protocols are?


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

I haven't had a problem with worms with my dog or my brother's dog and both are on a raw diet. I went from being maniacally paranoid about salmonella and other health risks when preparing raw meals to...well, probably not being as careful as I should be. When I'm prepping weekly/monthly meals, I'll wipe everything down afterwards. But when I'm feeding, I just take it out of the container or plastic and toss it the dogs. I wash my hands afterwards, of course, but that's about it. No one has been sick in the house since I started feeding raw.

And, while I'm not feeding my foster puppy a raw diet, she routinely runs to where the other dogs have eaten and spends time licking up the remains (whether imaginary or not). She hasn't been sick from being around a raw diet, either.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Me too. The meat, veggies etc are all human grade (actually Whole Foods grade) so their food is prepared on my counter. The counters are wiped down, my hands are washed and their bowls and VitaMixer are washed after each meal but I don't think this is anything more than needs to be done with kibble - well the container I keep the meat in needs to be washed every few days when empty but that is the only difference.

I would still need to wash the bowls, counter, sink and spoons (PB with supplements) each time they are fed raw or kibble. Hands too. 



Loisiana said:


> And I am the opposite, about all I do is wash my hands. Fix it right on the counter by the kitchen sink. Been feeding raw 8 years and no issues so far.


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## o0Shaz0o (Aug 21, 2012)

Thank you all so much for your wonderful replies! Truly appreciate your time and effort. 



Always51 said:


> Congrats on getting your puppy soon ..cant wait to see pics..


I will be sure to post some! Thanks for the congrats... I am so excited for the new addition! 



Shalva said:


> I have been feeding raw for 12 years and have not had worms
> 
> I have also weaned 4 litters of puppies to raw food and they have grown up healthy and sound with no issues... There is no reason that you can't feed a puppy raw ....


That is good to hear there isn't an issue with the puppy. And my breeder does raw, so I want to continue this for the pup too. Change in diet for puppies (especially too quickly) are not fun in the potty department. :yuck: But raw is the way I want to go. 



goldhaven said:


> That is one of the best resources. If your breeder is already feeding raw, she should be able to let you know exactly how and what to feed the pup.


That was my thinking too! 



goldhaven said:


> This is one of the websites that I referred to often when I was researching raw feeding. I hope you find it as helpful as I did. I worried about e coli and salmonella and this answered my questions and made sense to me.
> Myths About Raw: Will the bacteria in raw meat hurt my dog?


I loved this article. Again, this really makes sense! As does feeding raw 



goldhaven said:


> Do you know what type of raw feeding your breeder is doing? I have found that most people that feed raw also tend to start to question some of the other things that go into their dogs bodies, things like vaccines. Do you know what your breeders vaccine protocols are?


I am not sure as to the details of the raw diet. On the breeders website she has a page on supporting BARF and some examples of what she feeds. Here is the link for those interested and would like to comment Fernfall Golden Retrievers

In terms of vaccinations, this is an area I have yet to touch on much (there is SO much to learn before pup comes home). I am not sure of the breeders schedule. I have read an article recently condeming the practise of annual "booster" vaccinations and the first round of vaccines are sufficient due to cell memory in the immune system (this is what I learnt at uni, so makes sense to me!). No rabies down here (Australia), so no need to immunise (I have read some controversy around this schedule?).


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## o0Shaz0o (Aug 21, 2012)

newport said:


> The raw I buy is HUMAN GRADE quality. Should treat it just like you treat any raw meat. I do not prepare my raw meat for myself in the garage on a workbench?? Where are you getting your raw meat that it would be so contaminated??


I have seen at my butcher the puppy mince? It is "pet grade" quality food and marked to indicate it isn't human grade and therefore not for human consumption? 

I am not wondering about the quality of that mince. Has anyone had experience with pet quality grade food?


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

o0Shaz0o said:


> I have seen at my butcher the puppy mince? It is "pet grade" quality food and marked to indicate it isn't human grade and therefore not for human consumption?
> 
> I am not wondering about the quality of that mince. Has anyone had experience with pet quality grade food?


I would talk to the butcher and ask what is the difference from "human grade" and "pet grade". My guess would it would be due to bone and gristle being incorpated with the mince but I would not assume that.


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## o0Shaz0o (Aug 21, 2012)

I have done a bit of reading since that post, but would still like everyones opinion too, but it seems preservatives may be an issue too. 

Apparently a local retail butcher in my area does minces of chicken carcasses? Would that be a something you guys would consider feeding?


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## *Laura* (Dec 13, 2011)

We feed raw and have had no problems. The raw is treated in our kitchen with care just the same as the raw we eat so no cross contamination can occur. I think your question is a good one. I had tons of questions when I made the switch to raw. Congratulations on your new puppy and good for you for doing your homework.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Our local farm sells "pet treat" raw beef mince. We asked about it. It's the same quality stuff as the human food but it's mostly organ meat. He says he gets a lot more per pound selling the organs for pets than he can get selling them for people so he calls it pet food.


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## Wimbles (Mar 25, 2010)

Both our boys are fed BARF and were weaned on it as pups at the breeders. Our eldest is 2 and youngest 4 months. They're both wormed regularly at the recommended intervals for their age and we've never had any problems with worms. Like others have said, the only precautions I take when preparing their food are the one's I take when preparing raw meat for us humans. As far as carcasses are concerned, our guys have whole chicken carcasses alternate days and have done since they were around 9 weeks old. Always under supervision at first and with breast bone and excess skin removed up until they're 1 year. Good luck and looking forward to seeing puppy pics.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

o0Shaz0o said:


> I have done a bit of reading since that post, but would still like everyones opinion too, but it seems preservatives may be an issue too.
> 
> Apparently a local retail butcher in my area does minces of chicken carcasses? Would that be a something you guys would consider feeding?


Yes it is.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

AmbikaGR said:


> Yes it is.


Ditto to what he said


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## Always51 (Feb 19, 2012)

o0Shaz0o said:


> I have done a bit of reading since that post, but would still like everyones opinion too, but it seems preservatives may be an issue too.
> 
> Apparently a local retail butcher in my area does minces of chicken carcasses? Would that be a something you guys would consider feeding?


 I feed raw chicken carcasses (get ours from Lennards)no preservatives in their chicken... but Napoleon is 14 months old and copes well... minced would be great while the puppy is little (and when bigger!! 
) and when the pup could cope with more, the whole carcass is great...chicken necks they just gobble down and don't chew properly..... ask the place you will be getting yours from about the preservatives.... remember tho you cannot feed just one type of meat all the time..it has to be mixed and have offal..even adding egg and some veggies or yogurt is good..depends on how you want to feed..there is lots to find out and I'm sure your breeder will point you in the right direction


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## o0Shaz0o (Aug 21, 2012)

Always51 said:


> I feed raw chicken carcasses (get ours from Lennards)no preservatives in their chicken... but Napoleon is 14 months old and copes well... minced would be great while the puppy is little (and when bigger!!
> ) and when the pup could cope with more, the whole carcass is great...chicken necks they just gobble down and don't chew properly..... ask the place you will be getting yours from about the preservatives.... remember tho you cannot feed just one type of meat all the time..it has to be mixed and have offal..even adding egg and some veggies or yogurt is good..depends on how you want to feed..there is lots to find out and I'm sure your breeder will point you in the right direction


Lenard's was the "local butcher" I was referring too! That is great advice. Thanks! 

And thank you again everyone for adding your input. Really appreciate your time. Cheers! 


Sent from my iPad using PG Free


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