# Mercy not always being nice when greeting dogs



## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

I was having my evening walk with Mercy minding my own business, and someone with a Doberman comes up and wants to say hi. Even though I was trying to get around them at first, I didn't have the heart to say no and so they sniffed. After about 5 seconds, in just a flash, Mercy barked and growled at him. I couldn't tell if the Doberman growled a little at first or not. I've noticed lately that Mercy has no tolerance for dogs that growl at her. She will bark very aggressively right back if another dog makes even the smallest growl. What if in this case the other dog did not even growl? I am discouraged about Mercy not living up to her name when it comes to some other dogs. I took her doggie day care last Friday to tire her out before her READ session, and there were no bad reports. I mean she* loves *to play with other dogs, but certain vibes from other dogs while on a leash make her lunge at them sort to speak. She does great when serving beside other dogs as a therapy dog. (They have a two foot rule. No greeting allowed) I will have to say no to greeting other dogs now at least when walking the streets of my neighborhood.


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

There's no reason she needs to greet dogs on a walk, just say hi to the person and keep moving. Really no need to ask her to do something she is showing you is not comfortable doing.


----------



## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Sorry you are discouraged. Sometimes, despite our best intentions, dogs develop triggers and have different comfort zones than what we want them to have. 

Coming from someone with a known reactive dog, it's hard to see them not react how we want them to. But we have to acknowledge that they are their own beings and have needs and triggers that we need to learn to recognize and respect. 

For some dogs they are only reactive on leash. It could happen for a myriad of reasons but going forward its in their best interests to recognize their need for space and honor it. 

I get quite a few people who want to pet Bear cause he is so good with me. And it breaks my heart and frustrates me when he reacts adversely to certain strangers. 

So I do my best to set him up for success. I don't push it. If his body language says "I'm not comfortable" we gently decline their request and move on. If someone persists and just HAS to meet Bear. I will be equally persistent that they need to leave him alone and walk away. 

My loyalty is to Bear. My job is to ensure he is safe, both from real and perceived threats. 

On the proactive side, we actively work to counter condition him. It works well but it's slow going because a single negative experience can push us back months. 

I hope this helps you. Give Mercy some nice scritches from me.


----------



## DJdogman (Apr 23, 2013)

That has happened us with Charlie. He is the gentlest most affectionate dog to humans and our other dog, but out and about he can't stand another dog being near him. Its frustrating when people insist on bringing their dogs over even when you specifically say your dog will not be ok with it. I used to get embarrassed when Charlie went mad barking and growling, but now I just concentrate on getting Charlie relaxed again, and that's easier if I stay calm.


----------



## Anon-2130948gsoni (Apr 12, 2014)

There may well be some communication happening that only dogs see or understand in these incidents and there might have been several "exchanges" prior to the growling. 

I'm with MylisseyK... I don't interact with every human I see, so why should our dogs have to greet every dog? Some of us need space!


----------



## quilter (Sep 12, 2011)

One simple thing you can try is making absolutely sure that you are not tightening the leash when Mercy greets dogs on leash. Dog greetings on leash should be completely loose lead. I learned this from a local trainer that teaches reactive dog classes with amazing success. 

Also, when the greeting is over, make sure you two are leaving on a loose lead.


----------



## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

Had Mercy ever been attacked or threatened by another dog/dogs? When we adopted Honey in 2002 at age 1, she just LOVED our other 3 goldens. She wanted to greet every dog she saw, tail just wagging. 
When we evacuated to my youngest brother's in Austin for Hurricane Rita, we had been there a couple of days and Honey was laying on the floor in living room. Their Basset Hound came in, Honey laying there froggy doggy, tail just sweeping the floor and Belle ran at her growling and snapping. There had not been any kind of problem the previous 2 days and I am not sure who was the most surprised--Honey, my brother or me. Made him so mad that Belle acted like that that he put her outside.

A few months later we were at my vets and again she was laying froggy doggy in the waiting area and a guy came out of exam room with a fox hound which proceeded to snarl and leap at Honey. Again she was taking be surprise. Another time a guy came in with 3 rottie pups in a large wire crate and sat it near Honey. Two were all wiggle butt and rearing up obviously wanting to play, but the 3rd was snarling up a storm.

One of the tech was having to give up her 2 year old golden and I had my doubts as Honey had gotten leery of other dogs. But she brought him by and we met out front on natural ground. It was clear Honey wanted to be friends, but was not trusint. As long as he said a foot from her she was fine, but got closer and she growled very softly. The tech felt that given time they would be friends, but I decided not to get him.

Short time later we were at the vets and guy came in with a huge yellow lab that started growling at Honey as soon as they got in. Honey got up, fur stood up and she snarled back. There had never been any reason for any of these dogs to act like this. In every case she was laying on the floor froggy doggy style (she often slept like that) tail wagging, golden smile on her face. I called her an "attack magnet". And she didn't trust dogs after those attempted attacks.


----------



## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Sometimes it seems like Max is an attack magnet, too. We walk a lot at the local park, and there will be dogs that are fine with him, and dogs that are all bad attitude (which is not really the term I want here but you know what I mean). I have no problem moving far from any dog that even looks like it might be a threat. 

Jen, how are you "proactively" working with Bear? Maybe you can give Mercy Mom some tips on how to help Mercy in these situations? 

Mercy is such a good dog. You've done amazing work with her. Don't be discouraged.


----------



## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

laprincessa said:


> Jen, how are you "proactively" working with Bear? Maybe you can give Mercy Mom some tips on how to help Mercy in these situations?



We stopped all leashed greetings. He doesn't need it and if it doesn't go well or he reaches past his threshold he ends up practicing unwanted behaviors. 

We stop and practice sit/stays and "watch me" while other people and pets walk around us. The closer another animal or person can get to him without his reacting is a fantastic step in the right direction. 

We praise and reward every time he ignores a dog. 

We also correct him when he loses his mind. There have been many times he went over his threshold before I noticed and he lost his mid. Barking, pulling, lunging, howling, hackles up, etc. So I redirect him. It's really hard to do that when he's worked up so sometimes that means I'm physically turning him around and I'm physically holding his head to look at me instead of whipping around to look at whatever aroused him. And i praise eye contact and any semblance of attention in those moments. And once he's settled down we walk away from the situation. 

Greeting humans is trickier. I have to greet them first and he will slink up behind me to smell them. If he steps back instead of steps forward afternoon the sniff, we move on cause he is still uncomfortable. 

I have to tell people how to pet him. Don't lean over him and pat him on the head. They have to crouch/knell and rub his chest or the side of his muzzle. 

Most of what I do is management while we reward and encourage positive behaviors to different situations. This is counter conditioning. The act of conditioning them to situations and scenarios in which they otherwise have a different reaction to. 

Realistically I doubt we'll get to the point where greeting strange dogs is OK and it's not because of Bear. It's because *I* have had too many bad experiences that I cannot risk it setting Bear back. Even on-leashed greetings with dogs we know can go wrong. So when we do meet-ups. I put Bear in a sit/stay while I unhook his leash. Then I release him and he can greet at leisure with an expanse of terrain to retreat to if need be. 

From what I've read, most leash reactivity comes because the dog feels trapped by the leash and their flight reflex isn't an option. So they fight. And they preemptively fight to warn off any dog that might think of attacking them.


----------



## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

This is almost exactly what my best friend does with her Zeke - who does not like strange dogs when he's on leash. It does work, takes time and practice, but he will now walk past another dog without a reaction. Now, if that dog were to approach him, all bets are off, so she makes sure that doesn't happen. 

I taught Max "ignore" by doing what you're doing - look at me, and get a ton of treats and praise. 

This would most likely work well with Mercy too, but you have to make sure that you're in control of the approach and don't be afraid to say, "No, your dog may be friendly, mine is not."





Brave said:


> We stopped all leashed greetings. He doesn't need it and if it doesn't go well or he reaches past his threshold he ends up practicing unwanted behaviors.
> 
> We stop and practice sit/stays and "watch me" while other people and pets walk around us. The closer another animal or person can get to him without his reacting is a fantastic step in the right direction.
> 
> ...


----------



## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Noreaster said:


> There may well be some communication happening that only dogs see or understand in these incidents and there might have been several "exchanges" prior to the growling.


^^^^This. It can be very subtle and _very_ fast, but dogs go through a range of communications before one dog finally says, "Hey! I told you I wasn't comfortable with this! Now back off!!!" If you are really paying attention and know what to look for you can see it, but many cannot, and by the time a human thinks, "Something's going on here," it's usually way past that point for the dogs. I've seen slow motion videos of the dogs interacting in that scenario, and it's amazing how much communication they pass back and forth in such a short period of time. Fascinating, really.

I'm with the others. You don't have to be friendly with every dog on the walk.


----------



## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

laprincessa said:


> This is almost exactly what my best friend does with her Zeke - who does not like strange dogs when he's on leash. It does work, takes time and practice, but he will now walk past another dog without a reaction. Now, if that dog were to approach him, all bets are off, so she makes sure that doesn't happen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Absolutely. If anyone remembers my threads right after Bear was released from activity restrictions following his bilateral TPLOs, he was a hot mess. I remember crying and having melt downs because I couldn't take him outside without him being super reactive. But it's been nearly a year and for the most part, Bear is a 180° from where he was at the peak of his reactivity. 

I truly believe a part of that is because Bear has confidence in me as a leader and as his owner. Of course the titles are human made, but I hope I am able to construe the viewpoint. I've stepped between dogs and Bear when we get accosted on the street. I am the first to react when unleashed dogs come up to us. So for Bear, I think that helped him release some of that tension. That he ALWAYS has to be on guard. 

Of course I could just be reading into my ego. I'll never know since Bear cannot speak English. 

Mercy's mom - a book that was recommended to me was "controlled unleashed" and it helps train dogs to work with and in midst of distractions. You might find it useful.


----------



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I think there are going to be certain dogs that are just not going to get along for who knows what reason - probably the communication we do not see. Just like their are certain people that just will not get along.

My Brady loves all dogs. A few years back we were at a state park, there was at least another dozen dogs in the vicinity on leashes all dong their thing with their families. All the sudden Brady started to growl really deep, I looked at what he was growling at, and it was a man walking two bully type dogs. As these dogs walked through the park, every single dog stopped what they were doing and started to bark and growl. I do not remember these dogs growling back.

My Great Pyr, same thing, loved all dogs, except two. They were both at Pet Smart. We got out of the car, and her started to growl and bark at two Rottweilers. It was so unlike him, we just went back in the car and left.


----------



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I like the post that your dog does not need to say hi to everybody. 

I just took the CGC test, and one of the tests were the meet and greet - but it was the meet and greet of the handlers. Dogs were supposed stay on the left side of the handlers and not interact with each other.


----------



## tony.aantoniou (Dec 23, 2014)

*Hi*

hi 
I have the same issue with my dog.


----------



## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

I wonder too whether the no greeting rule and the 'ok you can greet who you like now' rule other times is confusing her? She doesn't know what to do with that rule so it seems threatening to her somehow? I agree with the post that says we don't greet all humans too. Thankfully we don't, lol!


----------



## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

elly said:


> I wonder too whether the no greeting rule and the 'ok you can greet who you like now' rule other times is confusing her? She doesn't know what to do with that rule so it seems threatening to her somehow? I agree with the post that says we don't greet all humans too. Thankfully we don't, lol!


You might be onto something here. Dogs don't differentiate between "now it's okay, but now it's not." Maybe she needs to totally not greet any dogs for a while?


----------



## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

laprincessa said:


> You might be onto something here. Dogs don't differentiate between "now it's okay, but now it's not." Maybe she needs to totally not greet any dogs for a while?


^Best post in this thread^
I don't greet other dogs when I'm out walking Deaglan. No sense in it either. Don't want to put him in any circumstance that isn't positive.
But then you have the jerks who insist on pulling their dog over to Deaglan for whatever stupid reason they have churning in their ferret wheel brain. 10 feet away and I tell ferret wheel brain that Deaglan has kennel cough.
Remedies the situation for the present and the future.
Why deal with something you have no interest in anyway.


----------



## 4goldengirls (Jun 10, 2014)

My rules has always been and always will be that while on leash, my dogs will not meet or say hello to someone with a dog we don't know and its for that very reason. Even if I'm told the dog is friendly, I politely decline. I don't want or need any negatives occurring with my dogs. Dogs on leash can feel a bit threatened because they are on leash and there is no escape.


----------



## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

quilter said:


> One simple thing you can try is making absolutely sure that you are not tightening the leash when Mercy greets dogs on leash. Dog greetings on leash should be completely loose lead. I learned this from a local trainer that teaches reactive dog classes with amazing success.
> 
> Also, when the greeting is over, make sure you two are leaving on a loose lead.


Yes. I need reminders about this. I do believe that the growling is due to my straining on the leash. 

There was actually a time during our walk when a pittbull came running out of the yard barking at us when his owner could not keep him back. I actually slacked on the leash when the pittbull got to Mercy and they sniffed each other nicely and no fight broke out. Was I scared? You bet!


----------



## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

*Update*

I took Mercy to a homeless shelter tonight with a therapy dog group outside my local jurisdiction. As I was getting ready to leave my car, another volunteer with a collie mix asked to say hello. I decided to chance it, and it went really well. I gave the leash more slack. It was a very nice greeting and I gave Mercy a treat. After I went inside, I wanted to concentrate on visiting with the people. The other volunteers were so nice and friendly. This lady introduced herself and her yellow lab. We let them sniff, and I was straining the leash more at that point. I heard Mercy start to growl and I immediately did an about face. Thankfully, by the grace of God, I was the only one who heard it. I do not wish to set up Mercy to fail in a therapy dog setting. It really is not worth risking her therapy dog career over. She behaves great as long as we keep our distance from other dogs and doesn't sniff. I will have to be brave enough to speak up but I didn't want to tell other therapy people that Mercy has a dog aggression problem. I definitely see the connection between a slack and tight lead and Mercy deciding to be friendly or not. I have to work on not being so tense, since Mercy can sense it. Most of the time I concentrate on keeping my distance from other dogs while working on leash. I will have to say no most of the time now, since it is not worth the risk.


----------



## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Good job, both of you!

Our therapy group has a 2 foot rule - dogs must be at least 2 feet apart at all times. I would think your group has a similar rule. You can invoke that rule if people want to greet and you don't feel it's a good idea - and for awhile, I think it's not a good idea. 

I wonder if Mercy feels that you're being threatened?


----------



## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

laprincessa said:


> Good job, both of you!
> 
> Our therapy group has a 2 foot rule - dogs must be at least 2 feet apart at all times. I would think your group has a similar rule. You can invoke that rule if people want to greet and you don't feel it's a good idea - and for awhile, I think it's not a good idea.
> 
> I wonder if Mercy feels that you're being threatened?


Therapy Dogs Inc. has a 2 foot rule and my local group, Manassas Therapy Dogs enforces it. I went to a group outside of my local town, Summits Therapy Animal Services, which has a mixed group of people. I do struggle with anxiety since a lot of things feel threatening to me and Mercy senses it.


----------



## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

MercyMom said:


> Therapy Dogs Inc. has a 2 foot rule and my local group, Manassas Therapy Dogs enforces it. I went to a group outside of my local town, Summits Therapy Animal Services, which has a mixed group of people. I do struggle with anxiety since a lot of things feel threatening to me and Mercy senses it.


I understand that - I have anxiety issues as well. One of the things I have to keep repeating to myself is something our trainer told me - it travels down the leash. So if I'm stressed, he's stressed. 

But the good news is that you're aware of it, so you can work on it!


----------



## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

Have you considered a distraction technique or trick? Something that you can do or say to Mercy that makes her snap her attention back to you which allows you to move out of it without using the leash. Some sort of high value reward, or "whiplash" type training.


----------



## SylviaB12 (Sep 16, 2011)

I've been having some of the same issues with Tundra on our walks. And I know a lot of it is because I tense up when a bigger dog is coming towards us. They can be on a leash and Tundra will still kinda grumble at them even if they are ignoring him. And he doesn't do it with little dogs. Guess I figure they can't hurt him so I don't tense up. (He has no issues with people whatsoever...he thinks everyone loves him and should have a cracker for him.) And when some idiot has their dog off leash and it comes running towards us and the owner is yelling "he's friendly" and I'm yelling "well, mine's not" and they can't get their dog to come back immediately, well, yeah, I'm upset and I'm sure Tundra senses that. I do carry pepper spray and one of these days I'm going to ask a cop if I can legally spray a dog that is running towards us and not under voice control (we do have a leash law). Not that I really want to do that and I'd probably get more on me or Tundra. I do need to try distracting him with a cracker when he are going by a dog on a leash....he's very food motivated. It's just the ones that are off leash that really worry me....I've only met one that is super trained.....he stops and sits when he's off leash and sees something up ahead!


----------



## Anon-2130948gsoni (Apr 12, 2014)

One thing I have trained myself to do in situations I can't completely control with my own challenge dog is to control my voice. I sing softly (even if the words are, "can you believe this lunkhead and his organ enhancement macho dog," it's the tone that matters), I fake laugh, I chatter away...it serves two purposes. First, the oblivious human occasionally decides I might be crazy and veers off and second, it sends some reassurance to my dog.

But I know how hard it is not to tense up, believe me...


----------



## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

This is my opinion, If you want to continue to succeed as a therapy dog team, you as the lead of the team must follow the rules already in place and set up more stringent rules so that Mercy feels safe and confident to do her job. Again, my opinion but being a therapy dog is all about the humans (the children in the reading program), the elderly in the nursing home, (the patients needing cheered up in the hospital). It is not about Mercy needing to meet other therapy dogs in these settings as it isn't the work she is required to do. It is up to you to keep her feeling safe and confident. Be strong set up your own rules. No dog to dog meeting during the therapy work. Keep your distance and say something like this....... Thanks for asking but I have a rule that while Mercy is working I want her to stay focused into her work zone. Maybe we will see each other later outside of the (hospital, school, shelter, nursing home, work zone and they will have time to meet. Find the words that are easy for you to remember and practice them so they come out in a cheerful but no nonsense way. You and Mercy have a great gift to share do not risk it all because you don't want to hurt another teams feelings. In order to do the work that you love and I believe Mercy enjoys you must be strong and keep Mercy feeling safe. Mercy needs to know you will keep her safe during work in order for her to do her job to the best of her abilities.

Any dog to dog meetings and loose leash meetings need to be trained in off times from doing the work itself. No dog to dog meetings during therapy work until you and Mercy both feel completely confident in those situations. It may take a few months it may be never but it really doesn't matter as long as you find the confidence to protect Mercy from things she feels uncomfortable with so you 2 can continue to work your gift of love together.


----------



## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Interesting read as I was just discussing this with my colleague whose little yorkie seems to be getting more grumpy when meeting other dogs on leash. I told her that I pretty much never have my dogs do nose to nose greetings on leash as I do not want them to potentially feel threatened and snarl at the other dogs. I also do not want them to practice that bad behavior. My general philosophy is to avoid situations where my dogs could make a mistake. I have one who as a younger dog was a bit snarky on leash, but has gotten better as she has gotten into her senior years. But I never let her sniff strange dogs on leash. Off leash, she totally avoids other dogs.


----------

