# Bally's Training Journal



## MillionsofPeaches

oh wow this will be a great learning journal for me to read! Thanks!


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## K9-Design

Sure thing! BTW I LOVE LOVE LOVE the picture of Katniss in your signature --- wow!!

Feel free to ask questions as I go along....


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## K9-Design

I just read Slater's thread from 3+ years ago. I remember those sessions so well!! I also was floored because Slater's little idiosyncrasies started very early in transition, and I still see some of them today. Hmmmmm little Bally what are you going to torment me with, or will you be Mr. Perfect???


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## MillionsofPeaches

oh wow, just started reading Slater's journal and Marty has me doing this exact casting thing this week! Now, I'm hooked because it looks like you started it right where we are at. I KNOW I'm going to learn a lot from this! Wow!


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## canismajor

I'd love to follow Bally's training journal Anney -- very interesting.


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## nolefan

*Thank you *

THank you so much Anney! This is awesome! I will be bookmarking this, I've already marked Slater's page and will be interested in your updates as you have time to post them. 

I asked my HRC friend, Matt to come over yesterday and we talked some and he showed me exactly what you're talking about for 'take it'. She wanted to mouth it for sure but picked up the idea quickly. We will work on it twice a day this week and then when she seems to be good with it, Matt suggested working on obedience while she holds. I have her holding a paint roller. I think I'm going to use your idea and call it "take it".

I am torn between going to the Sandlapper WC training day next Saturday or going to the field trial in Cheraw just to watch. Matt voted for Cheraw, which one do you think I'd get more out of at this stage? I wish I could do both...


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## K9-Design

I would vote for the field trial, too. You typically get very little done with a club training day. Why still with the paint roller?

I have been working Bally almost every night on take it & out. He pounces on the bumper and snaps it up every time no matter where I hold it, with my hand in his ear. He is easy.
He doesn't really mouth the bumper but he has a good grip on it then squeezes his jaws and squishes it. Not sure if that's a good hold or a bad hold! LOL


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## MarieP

nolefan said:


> I am torn between going to the Sandlapper WC training day next Saturday or going to the field trial in Cheraw just to watch. Matt voted for Cheraw, which one do you think I'd get more out of at this stage? I wish I could do both...


Are you talking about the Open National??? If so, you should totally go!! I thought about going down, but I'm working all week. Go and have fun!

Sent from my SCH-I405 using Tapatalk 2


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## nolefan

K9-Design said:


> ...Why still with the paint roller?...


I guess 1) I started with that because Matt suggested it and 2) I haven't switched to a bumper because there's a roller on my kitchen counter and I hadn't thought about switching to the bumper yet. I will now 

I did want to be certain she was taking it because I told her to and not because she wanted it for herself. I do know she thinks a bumper is a good time. I'd like to get her to a point where she will pick up pretty much anything that she can get in her mouth because I tell her to do it.


THanks Anney and Marie, I really wanted to go to Cheraw so that's what I will do and won't feel a bit guilty. Marie, I wish you could go with us, if your plans change, please let me know - I'd love for Craig to meet you. We are getting up early on Saturday and going.


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## FTGoldens

I'm jealous of those who get to go to the National in Cheraw, even as a spectator (although I'd rather be a participant!!!). The two Goldens, "Flash" and "Rip" have made it to the third series! Go GoldDogs! 
The third series is a triple, with a bit of water en route to the two retired marks. From the photograph, it looks fairly tight and moderate in length (345 yds, 225 yds, and 100 yds). The dogs need to be comfortable going tight past gunners and near lines they've already been on to do this test well.
FTGoldens


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## nolefan

FTGoldens said:


> I'm jealous of those who get to go to the National in Cheraw, even as a spectator (although I'd rather be a participant!!!). The two Goldens, "Flash" and "Rip" have made it to the third series! Go GoldDogs!
> The third series is a triple, with a bit of water en route to the two retired marks. From the photograph, it looks fairly tight and moderate in length (345 yds, 225 yds, and 100 yds). The dogs need to be comfortable going tight past gunners and near lines they've already been on to do this test well.
> FTGoldens


Thanks for the scoop…. I'm new so need all the help I can get on what to look for, I'm looking forward to it.

I promise to root hard for Flash and Rip


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## K9-Design

OK day one of force fetch has commenced.
I didn't set out to start with the ear pinch tonight but halfway through our session I realized that Bally was doing perfect on just "take it" and "out" (no pressure), there really wasn't much more to be gained by repeating that. I could put the bumper 7-8 feet away, tell him to take it, and he'd happily go pick it up and bring it back. So tonight he got his little ear squished for the first time. No drama but he definitely FELT IT and was like ooooo-ooowwwwie-W-T-F the first few times, I had to press the bumper to his front teeth to get him to take it, and he actually looked relieved and wagged his tail when the pressure stopped! LOL Captain Obvious -- thank you, halleluja!!!! Several times he quite readily took the bumper when I applied pressure and said "take it" - several times he seemed too concerned with the ear pinch to remember about the bumper until I put it up against his teeth. All in all I think a successful first time.


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## K9-Design

Have done I think 3 more sessions since last check in. Bally is understanding definitely the ear pinch = take it. Last night was definitely a progressive session as I gave him a little more responsibility to go out of his way to take it (i.e. jumping up, going forward about 3 feet as I held the bumper out). I also had him sit and hold the bumper, return to heel with the bumper, etc. All very up close, not far away. Two or three times he let the bumper fall out of his mouth and got ear pinched to it. Several other times I tapped hard on the bumper and made it fall out and he got pinched to that as well. By the end of the session he was holding it very firmly -- good puppy!!!! 
I am VERY much liking his response to the ear pressure. He is definitely sensitive to it and working to avoid it, but is not getting weirded out, avoiding me, climbing on me, mouthing me, etc. 
We have field trained several times this week (and are going out this afternoon) and I haven't expected or asked for any sort of force-fetch/hold compliance on his marks.


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## K9-Design

Another session last night. I have graduated to holding the bumper by the string as the opposite end leans on the ground. 
So I dug out my Mike Lardy book last night and overviewed the FF section. Which admittedly is brief but I picked up already a few things I was missing. 
First off I had been applying ear pressure slightly BEFORE saying "take it" whereas Lardy says to apply force just AFTER saying "take it." Tonight I'll do it his way. 
He also emphasizes (and I remember this from his seminar) teaching "HEEL" (return to heel) and "HERE" (sit straight in front). I so took this for granted with my other dogs because of their obedience training but realize that Bally does not know the difference. Something for us to work on independently in the yard.
The other thing I caught myself doing last night was praising and letting Bally jump up on me with the bumper in his mouth when he did a good "take it." Dumb trainer. Climbing on the handler is a very common behavior when a dog feels a lot of pressure and here I am encouraging it -- DUMB!!!


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## K9-Design

OK we have trained almost every day with Bally's FF. Have progressed to the bumper on the ground. I can put it at his feet or several feet away, or walk to the end of the leash and have it between us, command him "take it" and he will. Today we worked on walking fetch with 2 bumpers, that went VERY well!
Sometimes I think he is doing great (pounces on the bumper). Sometimes I wonder what he's thinking, like today he dropped the bumper once, another time on the walking fetch he sailed right over the bumper and sniffed the ground. Obviously both times he got ear pinched back to it but I gotta wonder, what don't you understand at this point? I hate to go slower and belabor the process. Then I remember Slater at this stage who would completely clam up and grind his teeth and had very little momentum to grab the bumper when ear pinched. It wasn't until I did collar fetch that he became manic about getting the bumper. So I have to keep telling myself -- they are all different, and they're ALL DOGS. And dogs are weird and do weird stuff!

I will tell you I will certainly have my hands full with Bally. He can't contain himself when it's time to get marks. He whines, he struggles to go, he pitter pats his front feet, the works. WAY more than my other two at this age. It's adorable. I'll take it.


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## nolefan

I love hearing that Bally thinks his retrieving time is the best thing in life… Thank you SO much for this post, Anney…. I lost focus having kids home for 5 days straight  so am ready to reclaim my training time. I'm going to put lights on the tree and get outside and now that I can see my kitchen counters again I will put my bumper back on the counter to remind me that if I'm sitting down I can make time to practice.

I would LOVE a Bally update photo, reading another thread about coat type and how nice Slater's is I wondered how Bally's is looking. Ellie still has her funny 'throat' wave and the rest of her is so straight. Her butt feathers are really coming in straight and getting long. She has a wave when she is wet, but dries out straight as an arrow. 



K9-Design said:


> OK we have trained almost every day with Bally's FF. Have progressed to the bumper on the ground. I can put it at his feet or several feet away, or walk to the end of the leash and have it between us, command him "take it" and he will. Today we worked on walking fetch with 2 bumpers, that went VERY well!
> Sometimes I think he is doing great (pounces on the bumper). Sometimes I wonder what he's thinking, like today he dropped the bumper once, another time on the walking fetch he sailed right over the bumper and sniffed the ground. Obviously both times he got ear pinched back to it but I gotta wonder, what don't you understand at this point? I hate to go slower and belabor the process. Then I remember Slater at this stage who would completely clam up and grind his teeth and had very little momentum to grab the bumper when ear pinched. It wasn't until I did collar fetch that he became manic about getting the bumper. So I have to keep telling myself -- they are all different, and they're ALL DOGS. And dogs are weird and do weird stuff!
> 
> I will tell you I will certainly have my hands full with Bally. He can't contain himself when it's time to get marks. He whines, he struggles to go, he pitter pats his front feet, the works. WAY more than my other two at this age. It's adorable. I'll take it.


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## K9-Design

OK no formal session today but we had a productive time nonetheless. Bally was the last dog to go at our group training today so while everyone was picking up equipment I worked on heeling to the "line." He is SOOO smart and really improved just with this one session. The last few times I've tried to keep a really short leash on him and not let him get out of heel position, that just caused him to lunge, drag me, leap back in to heel position, wash, rinse, repeat. Not good. Today I took a different tack, I had a 5 foot leash attached to his pinch collar. Told him "HEEL" - we would take the first step backward, then proceed forward. When he hit the end of the leash in front of me I would jerk it back hard a few times and he would leap back into heel position. When he sat or was still I said good, and said good every time he walked forward without lunging. This was MUCH better -- giving him more freedom and a bigger correction -- than trying to just contain him.

OK so he was fetching bumpers in the water, I didn't really intend for this to be his intro to FF near the water but I couldn't just let him drop the bumper with no consequence. So when he dropped the bumper after getting out, I told him "take it," the first time he was too concerned with looking out at the gunner and ignored me, I pinched him to the bumper and it was like OH, OKAY it works here too!!!! That happened one other time, and another time he dropped the bumper going from a front "here" position into heel position. So three ear pinches and that was all it took. By the end of his marks he was coming out of the water to a front position and holding the bumper, or coming out, obeying a "SIT" command while holding the bumper, while I walked around him, without him shaking off water first. He is SO smart it's scary. I really thought it was an excellent session. On our way back to the car we did a few practices of putting the bumper on the ground and saying "Take it." Each time he pounced on the bumper and came right to me. GREAT puppy!!!!


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## K9-Design

Gosh OK last night I just did a quick session of 2 bumper walking fetch, and fetch off the ground where I set the bumper about 5 feet away, make a triangle with me, the dog and the bumper, and say take it. He did GREAT and pounces on the bumper each time!! Yay In our walking fetch I am looking for him to turn around and visually find and hone in on the next one before I say take it, I want him to seek the bumpers.

Today was a frustrating session for both of us. I think it was an important one though. Bally does not have the best hold. He holds the bumper too loose for my taste. Today I was just hand-throwing bumpers, working on "here" and "heel" and walking with the bumper. If Bally was holding the bumper too loosely I would swat it and knock it out of his mouth, and then ear pinch him to it. This looked a lot like wrestling an alligator since when I try to hold him to get ahold of his ear he scrambles around trying the get to the bumper first and it's just a trainwreck! And to be honest, I really wasn't seeing any improvement in his hold by doing this.
During today's session I decided that purposefully knocking the bumper out of his mouth isn't fair, and to just let him drop it and suffer the consequences if it hits the ground. Twice while we were heeling or he was going into heel position the bumper dropped, he instantly tries to pick it up again but I pull him away from it then ear pinch him to it. Well guess what, I think that technique actually worked. By the end of the session he would toss the bumper a little and re-position it in his mouth if it was starting to slide -- rather than letting it fall!!!
I know his older half-siblings that I have trained with, also had a looser hold than I like, and tend to "stumble" and drop birds/bumpers while returning from marks....so he comes by it honestly. We'll see how it plays out.

Last night I watched almost all of Rick Stawski's Fowl Dawgs #1 video which covers all basics through the end of FF. I REALLY like his videos. I think I am officially ready to move onto walking fetch.

Dogs training is not easy. They are all different, you have to find what you hope works for each one, and not everything is the right answer!


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## MillionsofPeaches

so you let him drop it because of his loose grip but then not let him pick it up in order to make him endure the consequences of his actions? Am I getting the gist of that? Both of my girls didn't drop at that point. They would spit it out in protest which they got an ear pinch but not from a loose grip. And since they were spitting it out they didn't pick it back up on their own. I had to force them to pick it up. That is why I'm asking. I think I understand why you are doing it that way.


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## K9-Design

MillionsofPeaches said:


> so you let him drop it because of his loose grip but then not let him pick it up in order to make him endure the consequences of his actions? Am I getting the gist of that?


Yes that is exactly right, I would pull him away with the leash even though he was trying to grab it up again on his own without being told. I would then ear pinch him to it. One of those well I guess you are going to have to make the mistake to learn from it.



> Both of my girls didn't drop at that point. They would spit it out in protest which they got an ear pinch but not from a loose grip. And since they were spitting it out they didn't pick it back up on their own. I had to force them to pick it up. That is why I'm asking. I think I understand why you are doing it that way.


Not sure what you mean they were in protest of, other than protesting the whole situation in general! LOL No Bally is balls to the wall gangbusters for the bumper whether I say take it or not, but doesn't grip it tightly once he has it. If I get anywhere near his ear he is desperately looking for the bumper. He gets the force part he doesn't realize yet that part of the job is not letting go until you are commanded to, that he is responsible for holding it.


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## MillionsofPeaches

yes they were protest over the situation. Kat not so much, she is a pleaser so generally that happened with the duck but Peaches is beyond stubborn and being told to do anything pisses her off so she would spit it out. She wants to do it her way or no way. That is why I asked about Bally cause that is something that I haven't seen yet so I wanted to learn from it


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## K9-Design

Yeah I have boys because they are very compliant 

We did walking fetch with three bumpers this morning and it went GREAT. Not once did he drop it or even let it start to slide and reposition. Great session!!!


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## Claudia M

Do you use the regular bumpers, the wooden bumpers during your training? Do you still do marks and such?


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## K9-Design

Yes just a regular white 2" x 10" plastic bumper. Yes I am doing regular marks too. At this point I am expecting him to not drop a bumper (mark -- ear pinch if he drops it) but I haven't yet forced on birds so if we do marks with birds and he drops it that's OK. He loves birds so much though he tends to hold onto them, which is nice 
Once I am through with FF on the bumper I will spend a few sessions ear pinching to a bird, then a mixed bag of walking fetch birds & bumpers.


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## Alaska7133

Boys are easier aren't they? Ask a dog to sit, a boy will sit immediately, a girl will ask you why? I have both boys and girls. It does keep life interesting. For obedience training for beginner novice the judge has to walk over and touch the dog on the head. My boy Reilly wants to go away with the judge when she steps back. Lucy doesn't even know she's attached to the leash when she enters the ring. Boys and girls are definitely different. Makes me wonder sometimes why I ever have girls!


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## MillionsofPeaches

so funny because I'm not a fan of golden boys. LOL. So far nearly every boy I've experienced is so needy to me. I think it is my personality type.


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## Claudia M

Alaska7133 said:


> Boys are easier aren't they? *Ask a dog to sit, a boy will sit immediately, a girl will ask you why?* I have both boys and girls. It does keep life interesting. For obedience training for beginner novice the judge has to walk over and touch the dog on the head. My boy Reilly wants to go away with the judge when she steps back. Lucy doesn't even know she's attached to the leash when she enters the ring. Boys and girls are definitely different. Makes me wonder sometimes why I ever have girls!


hahahaha - that is Rose! I have always said that she will win a contest of who sits the slowest.


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## K9-Design

Hmmm. Yeah boys can be dependent, clingy, needy, etc etc. That undying devotion is part of their charm  Slater's nickname is "Glue."


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## MillionsofPeaches

aww that is sweet!!! There is a boy I am around a lot and I call him tampon cause he always wants to be by me, lol!


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## K9-Design

Fortunately I was able to work with Bally this week while we were in Orlando for obedience trials/Eukanuba show. We worked on walking fetch, fetch to a pile (3 bumpers, working on snapping up bumper and no shopping), and 3 handed casting to single bumpers. He really did super and I think I only had to correct him maybe 2-3 times for dropping the bumper, none for refusal to retrieve or lack of compulsion. 
He needs some brushing up on his casting, and next week I want to work on both retrieving a bumper out of the water without dropping it and start ear pinch on birds, then progress to walking fetch with a mixed bag of birds & bumpers.


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## K9-Design

The past few days we have worked on casting back to a mini pile (3-6 bumpers) and not shopping.
Very interesting progression...the first day I had the long line on him to the back pile, he ran to the pile, picked up the closest bumper, then dropped it to grab another, I was quick and pulled him away from it, he just came right to me, and was met with an ear pinch all the way to the pile. He did that twice then realized what he was getting corrected for, then I couldn't drag him away from the pile without a bumper.
I expounded on that and on Monday afternoon, tossed a bumper ~10 feet away, said "take it" and held back on the long line as he pulled me to it. That progressed to me telling him "take it" to the back pile about 25 feet away yesterday, applying a LOT of resistance on the lead, and Bally literally dragged me to the pile, like a husky pulling a sled! WOW! 
After watching Rick Stawski's video and better understanding stick fetch, we started that yesterday. I have to say it was very uneventful as I tapped Bally on three different sends to the pile with the stick and he never hesitated or offered a refusal. Hmmmm. 
He is doing just marvelous. Tomorrow we are going to start the whole process over with a duck.


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## Alaska7133

So you are doing FF with a duck, I just want to make sure I understood you correctly? If you are, why? I was always told that was cheating! But I did teach Lucy line manners (coming back to me, flipping around and sitting next to me) with a frozen pigeon. I knew I was cheating, but it worked. So same thought process?


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## K9-Design

Alaska7133 said:


> So you are doing FF with a duck, I just want to make sure I understood you correctly? If you are, why? I was always told that was cheating! But I did teach Lucy line manners (coming back to me, flipping around and sitting next to me) with a frozen pigeon. I knew I was cheating, but it worked. So same thought process?


Cheating, what do you mean? Up until now all of our FF work has been with bumpers but I am also going to do everything with a duck so he has good mouth habits and knows force to a bird, just the same as with bumpers. 
I'm not forcing on a bird because he refuses bumpers. Yes my dogs all prefer birds over plastic but I've never had one refuse a bumper b/c they were looking for a bird. Within a few days I hope to do walking fetch with a mixed bag of birds and bumpers and expect Bally to fetch up a bumper just as quickly as a bird.


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## Alaska7133

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. I just had a friend who suggested that using a bird for FF was not the best way to go. I'll have to ask her for more details why she thought it was cheating. So how's the weather down there, I've heard it's been quite nice?


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## K9-Design

Alaska7133 said:


> Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. I just had a friend who suggested that using a bird for FF was not the best way to go. I'll have to ask her for more details why she thought it was cheating. So how's the weather down there, I've heard it's been quite nice?


Hmmm...well most programs do spend some time FFing on birds so not sure about that...now if you ONLY forced on birds b/c that was easier for the dog (as in, he didn't like bumpers) I could see that it would be "cheating"!

Weather has been marvelous. 60s/40s although supposed to be back in the 80s this weekend. The A/C has been off for a while


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## Alaska7133

I think my friend was worried about my giving up on FF with a bumper since Lucy hated them and I would go to FF with a bird, thereby cheating in her eyes. I was pretty happy it was all the way up to 8F this morning! We got another 6" of fresh powder last night, we'll have some great skiing or skijoring tonight!


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## K9-Design

Bally had his first session of FF "proofing" in the water today.
First throw, he brought the bumper out of the water, dropped it to shake off, picked it up and brought it to me.
Second throw he did the same thing, but when he dropped it I pulled him away from it on the long line. The second he felt pressure on the leash he was like OH CRAP and tried to scramble and get the bumper but I kept him away from it and pinched him to it.
Third throw he brought it straight to me to front position. I told him to heel and as he went to heel position he started to shake off then dropped the bumper. Ear pinch time. That was the last of that, he couldn't be fooled from then on out. Bally did super and was even shaking off while holding the bumper. GOOD PUPPY!!! 

Later on we did land marks, two bumpers and the looooooong one with the duck (about 130 yards through cover). Each one he brought the item straight to heel or front position and held on to it perfectly. I was REALLY happy with him!!!!


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## FTGoldens

So far as FF on a duck, I've never done it on any of my dogs, ... I never felt that I would gain anything from it. However I did it with a buddy's dog a few years back because of that dog's mouth issues, so I have some experience with it. 
I'd avoid it unless you must do it because of a problem (e.g., stickiness, rolling the bird in the mouth, dropping the bird when returning to handler). The reason is because there is always the possibility of confusion on the ear pinch (or the nick/constant ... depending on what pressure you are using) ... and if pup gets confused on pressure during FF with a duck, there are all sorts of issues that you can create. 
And indeed, many "programs" will have a segment on FF on birds ... but I abhor strict adherence to a "program" because they don't/can't take the individual dog's needs/strengths/weaknesses into consideration. It is necessary to read the dog. 
Of course, if a dog isn't birdy, you may have to FF on birds ... but bear in mind that this won't make them birdy, but you may make them compliant.
Just my thoughts,
FTGoldens


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## boomers_dawn

We haven't been outside training, our 6 inches of snow just melted but it's supposed to freeze again in the next couple days 
We shared an obedience ring rental at a new place this weekend that was very interesting. Our usual obedience club is kind of quiet and they're used to it. Gladys has been doing her drills 100% perfect there. This new place is noisy and chaotic with an adjacent ring, lots of squawking birds, loud banging and crunching noises from the business. 

After how wild they acted at the neighborhood pet store holiday party, I almost revised my goals to having them tolerate just being in there. We started with a few laps around the parking lot working on not pulling on the leash.

It took me an hour to get them into the building and in the ring! LOL

Gladys did handling drills - made a lot of mistakes, it was a very distracting environment. She responded well to being stopped, told "no" and "watch me" and being redirected with me slowing way down.
Then she did lining drills - she did good with that. We've been working on heeling and pivoting in the hula hoop at home.

Gladys got the zooms and ran out of the ring - twice. Lucky I had the whistle on me which she responded to right away and came right back. She's so wild but I can see her try so hard to be good. Sweet peanut.

Dee Dee: first I hid behind a shelf and left her alone crated in the ring to see how she would do. She whined a bit but it was ok, when I got back she was quiet! I asked our co-renter sunrise how she got her to stfu - she said all she did was tell her she was good when she was being quiet. Helped me out!

Next, Dee Dee worked on manners - watch, sit, stay, down, stay, a little heeling, come when called; whistle sit, whistle come in, then we used the paper plates to do baby over and back. She did great!

I have tomorrow off from work, I plan to sleep in a be a big lump of **** then hopefully get the girls out for some much needed fresh air and exercise. But no formal training plans. 

We have the ring rented again this weekend, will do more drills and manners; I don't think we have any training group, not in hurry up and be ready for test mode now anyway


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## K9-Design

Hi Boomer, I bet you meant to put this in the weekly training thread - maybe C&P there too so nobody misses it? I want to know what word GRF bleeped out LOL!

OK Very "interesting" (and telling) session today. I did walking fetch with bumper-bird-bumper-bird-bumper and guess who refused the bumpers and tried to drag me to the birds? It was a disaster at first because he would not even look at a bumper sitting right in front of him. We kept working through it and by the end of the session he was doing the whole exercise really well and not refusing or passing by the bumpers. 

I look at drills like this not as being training for some direct future activity but rather, feeling the dog out for his propensities and responses. Bally is very gung ho but like most young dogs, very impulsive. He's also the birdiest dog I've ever had. It's best to get the lesson early on that he needs to do what I say, not just what he wants. I figure this should serve me well when we start running blinds and doing poison birds  

We had a second training session several hours later of just 3 handed casting/baseball. He has really figured this out, becoming much more fluent in taking casts (and ignoring my discard pile).


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## boomers_dawn

:hijacked:Whoops, sorry Bally! didn't mean to hijack your thread LOL

P.S. I bleeped **** out myself, it's a 4 letter word that means shizzle!


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## K9-Design

We had a great follow up session today of walking fetch with birds & bumpers. Only once did Bally get a correction for refusing the bumper. It was a HUGE improvement and he was really working with me despite his obvious desire to get the birds as a priority 
I'm not going to linger on this but I do think it was good to do. I remember a friend having to do walking fetch with her SH moving onto MH dog, when she would switch and/or have big ridiculous handles where she was blinking a dead go-bird with an out of order flyer. She had to do walking fetch mixing bumpers, dead birds and shackled ducks to get the message across to the dog.
Bally also worked fetching & holding the bumper coming out of the water, I tossed the bumper 3 times and he was perfect! Even coming out and shaking off while holding the bumper and coming into heel position -- which is a soggy proposition for me but shows he understands what is being asked of him! We then brought out a duck and he needed one reminder to not drop the duck to shake off, then he was perfect. Really really pleased with his progress. Off to watch videos and see where we go next. 

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!!


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## K9-Design

Quick training session today. I worked on sending Bally back and forth between two piles of 4 bumpers, about 15 yards apart. Two or three times he got a tap with the heeling stick and it totally didn't phase him. He has excellent momentum to the pile and isn't shopping. What's funny, before he would always select the small 2" bumpers from the pile, now since he got ear pinch with some bigger 3" bumpers the past two days in walking fetch, he fetched a big bumper out of the pile every time today. 
We also did marks with all the guys with birds, just simple stuff but of course they loved it. My mom ran Slater on the marks, so she can see what a steady dog feels like!  He actually picked up the bird and brought it right back to her rather than running to me (I was throwing).

I will probably spend a few more sessions on simple pile work with Bally and hopefully lots of marks in the next few weeks. I am pretty sure we're done with force fetch and need to commence on collar conditioning.


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## K9-Design

Today we did 3-handed casting and Bally did very well. A few wrong casts here and there but I just stopped him with the long line and started over. When I had one bumper left at the back pile, I lined him up at my side and sent him. Instead of going to it he took a left and ran about 30 yards away to where one of my friend's girls (who is in season) had peed, and started sniffing it. What a bad dog!!! I marched over there, yanked him up by the collar and marched back to where we had been. Told him sit, he looked out at the bumper, then I pinched his ear all the way to it. OWWOWOWOWOWOWWWW Well that straightened him out. I put a few more bumpers out there and he did two more straight sends and a couple of back casts to the pile perfectly. 
Bally also got a bunch of single marks today a few on land and a few in the water. His delivery manners were perfect -- yay puppy


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## K9-Design

More 3-handed casting today, with just one side pile. Also sent straight a few times, the first time he tried to make for the side bumper but I just called him back and resent and he went straight to the back pile. He is taking his casts really well 
We sorta did a wagon wheel but just with two bumpers, turning 90º each time to the left and right. Hard for him not to go after that first bumper down 
Nice session -- Bally is fun to work with!


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## nolefan

Thanks for the Bally-updates, Anney. I especially appreciate hearing the smaller details about the mistakes he makes and what you do to correct them. 

Thanks again for the advice on holding off on some of this until I had time to train every single day, it's been crazy at my house and I would have had to back off on training. January will be our month


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## hollyk

Holy cow Annie, where did your puppy go?


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## K9-Design

We had a really adorable session today. I need to get on with it with teaching Bally the sit whistle so we did a little bit of heeling and stopping on the whistle but for the first time used the heeling stick. Well previous when I have used the stick for stick fetch Bally hasn't noticed it one iota but at the end of the session I would let him play with the stick, I'd whack it on the ground and he'd chase it and get to carry it back to the car. Holy guacamole he thought me bringing out the stick today was playtime! It was quite comical. I just sorta ignored him jumping to grab the stick  and carried on, and swatted his booty every other sit or so. Even though he was goofing a little, he still responded AMAZING to the stick pressure and was sitting lightening fast with a GREAT attitude. I found I had to swat him on his outside (left) hip otherwise he would swing out. We did sits at my side and in front. I was really pleased with the session (and yes he got to carry the stick back to the car!).
We also practiced casting again today, just a quick session with two bumpers for a back and over. It was starting to sprinkle and I still had to go to the grocery store so I didn't want to mess with all the bumpers and whatnot. 
I will say one thing he's caught onto really quick is looking straight ahead at the bumper/pile when I say "SIT." I will not use the term "dead bird" until we get close to doing blind drills, which are still months away, but he now knows that "SIT" in heel position means look forward. We do this on marks and pile stuff. 

Of course I went home later on and had a nearly disastrous obedience training session, working Bally for his dinner, that wasn't any fun for either of us. I can remember having the occasional session like this with Slater. I think it's my fault and not theirs. I expect them to know how to do something perfectly and to go with 1000% gusto all the time and that just isn't always realistic. It may be in the future but not at every point in their life. I have to remember how far I've come with Slater and that it will happen with Bally too. Well we've hugged and made up and we're all better now  Hopefully my dog's dumb trainer will figure out how to train dogs one day.


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## K9-Design

Have just been working on our 3-handed casting this week, and marks. Nothing really new to report. Also I started teaching Bally to sit on a come-in whistle, by putting a jump bar on the ground and teaching him to stop right in front of it, now I can call him and blow the whistle right before the bar and he'll sit. 
He's also gotten a few corrections for trying to break (just with the pinch collar & pull tab) and is getting to be pretty lead steady.


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## K9-Design

Still just more 3-handed casting, lining, and marks. With the 3HC I typically put 10-12 bumpers at the back pile and just one white bumper at each over. He is making few mistakes on the casting, but we are still teaching to go straight when sent. He isn't yet able to line to the back pile with over bumpers still there. Today I sent him from my side to the back pile (maybe just 50 feet away) a few times to start the session, then put the two over bumpers out, and lined him a few more times to the back pile. It went well. Also when he would pick up a side bumper, I would meet him in the middle, toss the side bumper back, here or heel to the back pile and line him to it (like wagon wheel...sorta). Just feeling our way through the best way to approach it. If I take 2-3 steps toward the right bumper with Bally in heel position he really locks on and seems to understand better "go straight."
He is doing super on his marks, he has had marks up to about 200 yards this week but on no cover (mowed hay field). Have shows this weekend so hopefully we will train tomorrow and Wednesday and that's it.


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## K9-Design

Today we did 4-bumper wagon wheel for the first time. Bally did really really well. I make sure he is sitting straight in heel position each time we turn. We did all four to the left (heel) then all four to the right (here).


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## Kmullen

And how did KC do with the 3 handed- casting??? Haha


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## K9-Design

She did not we stuck with the show dog stuff. Today we trained not at the church but at the cemetery in Gainesville. Train in the field then walk through the path in the woods behind where they stash the concrete caskets and broken headstones. I kid you not! LOL


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## K9-Design

OK not a lot of training the past 3 weeks with 3 straight weekends of big dog shows. Back at it this week. Bally's drills have consisted of 3 handed casting and wagon wheel. He is getting really good at WW and his casting is pretty spot on. Sometimes take a left vs. right back but whatever. Starting to put more pressure on the sit whistle, he seems to know it in context but if he gets too loose he ignores it. Because of his (new) experience with wagon wheel I am able to line him to the back pile of his 3 handed casting, and he'll go straight and pass up the side piles -- yay!!!! 
Time for collar conditioning is nigh...
Bally runs his drills like a dog who has been collar forced. It's lovely. Lots of momentum. It would be easy to continue w/o collar force but why set yourself up for having to back up, later on?

He has been rocking his marks, he did the longest mark of his life today, on land about 400 yards. Took an extra helpy toss half way there when he was fading toward a closer stickman but that was it. Bally rocks it!


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## nolefan

Thank you for continuing this Anney, I am far behind so it helps me to hear your notes.


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## K9-Design

OK not a whole lot of progress recently except on Friday I had a private lesson with Mitch White and we started collar condition to "HERE" with Bally. It went really well. Bally figured it out in no time. We had another lesson Saturday and will see Mitch again Wednesday and Thursday. Collar conditioning is something I've always been unsure of, and now I feel I have a much better understanding of it.


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## Kmullen

So jealous!!!!


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## nolefan

kfayard said:


> So jealous!!!!


Yeah, me too. So proud of Bally's progress in spite of how busy you've been Anney. 400 yard marks is amazing to me, and I'm totally envious also of the Mitch White private. Ellie had a mark yesterday that was over 150 yards and did great, she still thinks she might like to give it to the bird boy but will come when I blast the whistle. We are still trucking along slowly  Thank you for continuing to update here and please keep trying to remember to include the stuff where you had to make adjustments etc. when Bally didn't get it. I am not looking forward to the days where Ellie doesn't follow the script and I am at a loss as to how to make a change to get her to 'get it'. 

Any new Ballyhoo photos???? We need some here to go with the updates


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## K9-Design

nolefan said:


> Ellie had a mark yesterday that was over 150 yards and did great, she still thinks she might like to give it to the bird boy but will come when I blast the whistle.



OMG Kristy -- Bally does THE SAME THING. Not every time but maybe once a training session he will pick up the bird then loop back around behind the gunner and come in. I have NO IDEA why he does this!!!! 
I have been hesitant to do anything about it, as it will be easily stopped with the ecollar at a later date. No need to yell and teach him to ignore me, or scare him to get him away from the gunner.


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## nolefan

Funny dogs. I've been doing back to back marks of about 175 yards and Ellie will take a step to the thrower and then be like "Oh, yeah, never mind." and take off toward me. I just blow the whistle like nothing's unusual. She's a nut. Makes me laugh that Bally thinks about doing that too.


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## K9-Design

I have been out of town so much lately I haven't done a whole lot with Bally but his CC to here is now complete -- he complies perfectly -- and a few sessions ago I started CC to SIT. Mitch said he does not CC to sit formally, more, does basic field obedience sessions of heel, here, sit, etc, and corrects with the collar for noncompliance. He does not use collar pressure on SIT with the dog in stationary heel position. Rick Stawski's video, he CC's to sit and here basically simultaneously by having the dog in front of you, backing up and alternatively commanding here and sit as the dog comes to you. I sort of combined these two thoughts and started working Bally on sitting remote on the whistle as I back up, call him in a little, sit, back up again, call again, etc. At first I started very short, with a leash, and used both the leash and collar pressure if he did not sit immediately. He picked up on it right away. I would vary having him hold a bumper or not during this process. 
Today was probably our 3rd or 4th lesson on this and I am at the point I can leave him, walk 50-60 feet away, and call him, and sit him multiple times as he's coming in. I also put out a bumper, cast him to it, then sat him on the way back. He did GREAT. What I'm especially impressed with is that even if he feels collar pressure for the sit, he has not once tried to come in to alleviate the pressure. He instead complies with the command to sit, not just escape behavior. Mitch's triangle recall thingie made so much sense and I see now how well it pays off. 
I think I will work up to Bally's 3-handed casting and stopping him in the middle on the way back from the back pile. I don't want to start stopping him en route until after we do all of our force work.


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## K9-Design

OK Really cute session today -- started with me leaving Bally, walking 50 or so feet, calling him and sitting him halfway, repeat several times, he did perfect, no collar corrections. Then I set up his mini-T, did some casting and lining, and stopped him in the intersection on the way back several times. He did GREAT. I will say the highlight was one time I gave him a left over, he dug back (this from a dog with NO pile force work at all! LOL), I stopped him with the whistle, called him back the few feet to the intersection, sat him again, had him really focus, gave the left over again, and he took it just perfect. Sooo cute!!!


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## K9-Design

OK Picking back up where we left off. I do feel bad Bally has not received the proper field training he should have, but I have been so busy with obedience with Slater that Bally has done more obedience stuff than field. 
The past week or so while I was out of town I talked myself into being motivated so last night I got out my Fowl Dawgs 2 tape (Rick Stawski) and reviewed the portions on collar fetch, and read the (rather short) section in Lardy's manuals on it. 
Today we started with a short session of obedience - heel, here & sit - I had a bumper in my back pocket and Bally thought we were doing obedience and got right into an adorable "strut" which of course -- I don't want to encourage during field but don't want to discourage in obedience -- so rather than heeling forward I did a bunch of heeling backwards, sideways and leaving him in a sit and having him return to heel vs. straight "here" front. Then we went into some collar fetch, my left hand under his collar and on the transmitter and the bumper in my right hand. He naturally is crazy for bumpers but this made him even more so. He was desperate to get the bumper. I worked up to the bumper on the ground, then a few times of one-bumper walking fetch. I started on a low-2 then up to a medium-2. Only once did I get a very small vocalization (whine). I could tell he was concerned about the pressure but performed the task really well with a lot of momentum. For the first session it was great. I'll do basically the same session tomorrow then hopefully move on to 3-bumper walking fetch the next day. Would like to get up to a low-3 on the collar as that is what we used to CC to "here."


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## K9-Design

OK Another session this morning. Quickly progressed from bumper in my hand to bumper on the ground. Worked up to a high-2 and got lots of vocalization. Bally was a squawker during ear pinch with not a ton of pressure so I'm not sure if he's just more vocal or what. I do know from experience that my other dogs seem to be more stable with a low-3 than a high-2, so maybe the TT levels are not exactly linear? I did feel bad but we kept on going and backed back down to a low or med-2. After that I did get once or twice where he dashed to the bumper then hesitated slightly before picking it up. A few reps of getting it right out of my hand and he didn't do that any more. We ended with one-bumper walking fetch and I was pretty pleased, when we would heel away from it then turn around to face it Bally zero'd in on the bumper and was rarin' to be sent. 
I think two sessions was enough of "conditioning" so we'll move on to 3 bumper walking fetch tomorrow.

Oh, we did water marks with birds last night at the L-pond (and blinds for Slater).


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## K9-Design

Another session this afternoon, 3 bumper walking fetch. Bally did a very nice job. I gave collar pressure on every 3rd send or so. Toward the end of our session he was getting a bit slower (it was quite hot out), I pushed it from a low-3 to a med-3 -- got a little vocalization but much improved momentum! He is finally seeking the bumper visually and trying to break for it before I tell him. Good pup. I think another session of this tomorrow.


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## hollyk

Anney, I have a question.
Why the goal of level 3 on the collar. Is Bally not committed enough to the retrieve at 2?

It's fun to read your posts and think, "right, fetch to bumper in hand, then incrementally to ground, walking fetch....OK, I can do this again."


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## K9-Design

I know from experience that about 90% of reasonably trained and tempered dogs run on a 3. I also know of many a golden retriever who has faked out their owners and gone way too long half-azzing it on a 2 (or 1...yes, I have had people tell me their dog freaked on a 1. A 1 to me feels like a bug crawling on my skin). He CC'd to here on a 3 so that is a reasonable assumption for FTP. I also got a completely stable, quiet response on a low-3 whereas I got vocalization on a high-2.


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## hollyk

K9-Design said:


> I know from experience that about 90% of reasonably trained and tempered dogs run on a 3. I also know of many a golden retriever who has faked out their owners and gone way too long half-azzing it on a 2 (or 1...yes, I have had people tell me their dog freaked on a 1. A 1 to me feels like a bug crawling on my skin). He CC'd to here on a 3 so that is a reasonable assumption for FTP. I also got a completely stable, quiet response on a low-3 whereas I got vocalization on a high-2.


So hard on the internet to picture what the dog is doing. 
So on 3 low quick compliance and on 2 low a bit of avoidance? Man, it's the little nuances in reading a dog that can make a big difference going though the different stages. I'm trying to figure out what you're saying Bally is doing. 

Oh, I get the fake out stuff or my other favorite people coming to the line with the controller in their pocket and the dog blows them off about 5 times before it comes out.


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## K9-Design

hollyk said:


> So hard on the internet to picture what the dog is doing.
> So on 3 low quick compliance and on 2 low a bit of avoidance? Man, it's the little nuances in reading a dog that can make a big difference going though the different stages. I'm trying to figure out what you're saying Bally is doing.


No as of yet I haven't gotten any avoidance. I want the dog to act like he is positively DYING to get to the bumper. Not just compliance. With the low or med-2 I was getting compliance but not compulsion. Today I went a tad higher on the collar and got the better reaction I was looking for. Bally naturally wants the bumper and moves quickly but there's a difference. Will I continue to go higher? No, not at this time. A med-3 got vocalizing and trying harder to get to the bumper, frankly the best I think he could do at this point with limited space constraints of the drill. 
Really this is the engineer of training meeting the artist of training! Knowing what you want, the steps to get there, and hoping you do it right so you get it! 



> Oh, I get the fake out stuff or my other favorite people coming to the line with the controller in their pocket and the dog blows them off about 5 times before it comes out.


Or the "oh crap well I was hitting the button but the transmitter's not on" -- uggg


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## hollyk

Ok, I get it now. He wasn't driving to the bumper. 

When I FF Winter I wasn't officially training with the Pro, but he was (at no cost) coaching me though FF. 
I believe he thought "middle age gal with her first dog ever, she won't last." 
Winter did really well but when we got to the send from a small distance part something was not quite right. I don't have much of a yard but my front porch is about 40 feet long. I would send her to the bumper which she would race to it but she would hit it with her two front feet and slide/ride it for a few feet then snatch it up and raced back. When I told the Pro what she was doing he said, "Ah no, she is not FF". I couldn't work out my schedule to meet him so he sent me to a gal who has FF quite a few Golden's of her own. Winter's FF was finalized in about 20 minutes.
Winter is uber compliant. There have been 2 or 3 times that I have mistaken her compliance for understanding the concept.


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## nolefan

So, holly, do I understand you correctly..? Your Pro heard what she was doing and knew you had worked on FF yourself and you thought you had finished it properly but he knew she needed just a bit more. The experienced woman came over and 'finished' her last lesson in about 20 minutes and now you have seen no more of the feet instead of all mouth behavior?

I am making sure I understand so hopefully I recognize these type things at my house.


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## hollyk

Yes. 
We back up to a basic ear pinch but add more resistance so she had to really pull hard to get to the bumper. We saw avoidance at first but then it clicked in. Over the next week I revisited Ff to ground.at a distance, the whole progression and the sliding behavior disappeared. Since than my FF/CC has held up.


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## nolefan

thanks so much. I am a weenie and am sort of stuck in force fetch mode because I hate upping pressure on Ellie. I have got to get over it. I really want to do this myself.


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## K9-Design

OK another session this morning first 3 bumper walking fetch then two small piles about 20 yards apart, heeling toward them and sending. I'm basically following Rick Stawski's video. He doesn't get into sending the dog from your side while you stand stationary until you've got a lot of your force work done. I like this since I'm very sensitive to too much pressure making heel position a hot spot (Fisher). Anyways I forced several times as a matter of course and Bally did SUPER. I was very very pleased with his momentum. Each time used a low-3 on the collar. Completely stable response, super speed, no vocalizing or worry. I am now sending on "back" and using a back-nick-back rather than continuous pressure to the pile. Will probably do the same tomorrow with two piles maybe making them a little farther apart.
Trust me Kristy I have put Bally's collar fetch off WAYYYYYYYYY too long but I am both relieved and thrilled it is going so well. I should have done it long ago.


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## K9-Design

Lucked out the past two evenings, it clouded over, got blustery and threatened to rain, but the drops held off until I was finished training  So cooler and windier than normal made for good training. Yesterday we did walking fetch between two piles of 4 bumpers about 20 yards apart. Today we started with some refresher course on sit on a whistle, then revisited the 2 piles. I then put the 8 bumpers together in one pile and ran Bally to it until he had picked up all the bumpers. The send is not formal. I have him by the leash and we take a few steps to the pile (which was about 25 yards away), as soon as he locks onto the pile I send him on "back" while we are walking. He practically drags me to get this going. I am forcing on every 4th send or so, today we worked in two nicks on the medium-3 and I was very happy -- no vocalization, no reaction at all other than GREAT momentum throughout the entire session. He picked up all 8 bumpers and could have gone for more. Very happy with sessions.


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## K9-Design

Another session last night, pile about 30 yards away, 10 bumpers. One nick (med-3) en route and one (low-3) on a back cast. Bally did GREAT -- super speed and attitude. He is getting it.


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## K9-Design

OK I have been bad about updating Bally's journal, and was out of town about 2 weeks of the past month where we didn't train much. 
Since the last entry, I had progressed to running Bally to a pile about 60 yards away, picking up anywhere from 10-15 bumpers per session, both from my side (no real lining up, just me holding his tab, we walk forward about 2 feet and I say "back" when he is pulling to go), and back casts left and right from in front position. I had worked up to giving force at a low or medium 4, and he took it no problem. I must say I never once got an absolute refusal, I did get some confusion where I added collar pressure that I probably could have avoided, but Bally worked through it and never wavered. 
I had an internal debate on whether or not to stretch out the FTP, or move on. With my other two dogs, I had issues in this stage of training that we had to work through (Fisher = bugging, Slater = no goes w/ increased pressure), whereas Bally never really did anything consistently bad. On one hand I think I could have created some of those behaviors to work through if I continued on with FTP (which is not necessarily a bad thing), on the other hand, we are now in the thick of summer, and to me intense heat, a lot of collar pressure, and lots of repetitive behaviors sounds like a recipe for a pretty sour attitude -- not something I want to have happen with this puppy!
So we moved on 
I started training the single T night before last. Now Bally did plenty of baseball casting on a mini-T and knows his casts well. We moved into our T field where the back pile is 50 yards away and side piles 25 yards off the intersection. 
These first two sessions we've only worked on lining and casting to the back pile (center line). The first night I was able to back up all the way to home plate but not without a little confusion, he wanted to look at the side piles, and at one point I got him focused on the back pile, sent him, he went out about 15 feet, sorta spun and got turned around, obviously it dawned on him that the side pile would be closer. I immediately said BACK and nicked him but that only made him try to run to the closest bumper he saw -- the left side pile. I yelled and stopped him and brought him back. I felt bad giving a collar correction when things had gone a little out of control, but Bally bailed me out by being even MORE eager to get to the back pile when I moved up a bit and re-sent him. We finished out the session without incident.
Tonight we trained at about 9:15 pm -- the field has big flood lights -- much cooler (81º -- 77% humidity -- feels like 86º). Again worked on just going to the back pile. Bally was ON FIRE -- I was SOOOOOO happy with his attitude. We were able to work a little bit on focusing on the back pile from the home plate -- no, here, heel, etc to move his head -- for a first timer he did pretty well and not once did he go for a side pile. He was so fast -- even barking as I sent him -- which I've never seen him do before. The first time I thought I accidentally bumped the collar. Please remind me of this in a year when he's barking on blinds......

Yesterday we did marks -- two flyers for Bally and marks over a log.


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## K9-Design

Another session tonight. Bally progresses with each session. Tonight I could line him easily to the back pile from home plate with very little looking at the side piles, no walking steps forward to focus, no wavering once sent. We had one cast per side pile. Still no trouble lining or casting to back pile after that. I think all of our casting on the mini-T made this an easy transition. I realize he now knows that "GOOD" means you are about to be sent, because he broke on "good" when I wasn't holding his tab!  He also autocasted on a back cast because I wasn't fast enough. IOW, lots of momentum. Tonight also had lots of barking -- he barked on his first two sends (one from side, one back cast), which sent me back to the car for the bark collar. He only barked once after that. We'll see how that goes.


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## K9-Design

We are progressing on T. I forget how much work it takes to get a dog to master the concept. So many skills involved that are the foundation for ALL future field training. We will be at T for a long time. The good news is, Bally has a SUPER attitude, and is really fun to work with. 
Tonight we went to do water stuff, I decided to set up a back-pile across the pond. Maybe 30-35 yards away? A little further than I would have liked. I only sent him three times, no problems, but the water so warm he was panting with tongue hanging out after the 3rd send. It felt like bath water. Yuck  So we quit with that.


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## K9-Design

Last night we didn't have enough time to set up a whole T so I did 4 bumper wagon wheel and 4 bumper casting drill (basically casting instead of sending from side, like a wagon wheel).
Today I went to our local pond and set up a back pile in the water for Bally. The water wasn't as hot as the other day (different pond) and my back pile was about 20 yards of swimming. I sent probably 6-7 times and Bally did GREAT -- no problems whatsoever. The water didn't change anything. One time I did force en route right before he hit the water. Cute little session! He is clearly not ready for a water T yet but I figure establishing a back pile cannot hurt at this stage. I am happy to see he is unphased by the water and knows what is expected.


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## K9-Design

OK another entry. I recently buckled down and really studied my training books and realized we are not ready to start formal T just yet. In a mish-mash of techniques from Lardy, Mitch White and Dobbs' training manual I now have a training plan for the next month or two building up the skills we need for both handling and marking before I get down to real T work:

FORCE/PILE WORK
• Long distance FTP (150+ yds)
• Water force (10-15 yd channel, force on a few throws first, backs & overs as well as side sends)
• Two-channel water force
• decheating (Mitch)

HANDLING
• 3 handed casting/WW casting. With and without diversion throws
• Come-in and angle-in casts
• Left & right back w/ diversions
• Heeling Alignment drills (Dobbs)
Square pattern
Backwards heeling
Here/heel pivots
Return to heel/one-step realignment
• Lining drills
multiple piles/go as sent
WW
lining to white stake (backchaining blind)

SIT/STEADY
• "Place" on mat
• Force to mat
• Steady drills on mat & remote sends
• CC to SIT with collar on butt
sit while walking --> running
sit while coming in
sit to bumper
sit to pile
• Holding blind drill

Have been working on marking with most throws angle-back. Bally's propensity is to stop even with the gunner then loop INTO the gunner. 

Lots to work on. Slow going with so much travel & shows. Bally now has 7 championship points and one major all out of 12-18 so at least we've made progress on that


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## K9-Design

OK an update! I was out of town for 2 weeks end of July/beginning of August but have been back home now about 2 weeks. Lots of training progress for Bally. We are just focusing on the tasks I listed above. 
I have done several sessions of "multiple piles" (lining to white stakes) at ~50 yards and he is pretty perfect. I typically put 5 bumpers at each pile and try to leave one bumper left ("just in case") at each stake -- so that's a lot of bumpers to pick up. The only issue I have is Bally not wanting to SIT before taking off. He's like "you pointed me at it and I'm outta here." OK.....

We've worked lots on the place mat to where I can send him from about 30 feet away "place" and he turns around and sits. About a week ago I began steadying drills using the mat. First I would just tease him with the bumper to try to leave the mat, and eventually I would walk 20-30 feet away and throw the bumper. If he broke I would intercept him and then send back to the mat with nicks. I liked this as it took me out of the equation, Bally didn't have to worry about being in heel position per se, just being steady. I eventually graduated to me standing on the mat next to him and throwing bumpers myself. Yesterday was the first time I had a gunner throw bumpers. Short, only 20-30 yards or so. First throw was silent, then a hey-hey, then a duck call, then a duck call and lots of shouting. He broke one time and was corrected on the way back with a medium 3. 
Today I repeated the drill, this time building up to having a bird thrown, lots of duck calling and hollaring, making it really exciting. He broke one time and got two nicks on a medium 4 as he came back to the mat (I call -- NO -- HERE - nick nick as he returns. He never gets corrected with the collar as he's heading away from me). He was steady as a rock the rest of the time! This is working! (I think)

The other thing we've done this past week is the 150 yard long distance FTP. Using the directions in Mitch White's book -- it's like following a recipe, I take the book with me so I get it right 
First day I worked up to 100 yards, on the first 100 yard send Bally got over halfway out there and drifted off to the right, when I yelled BACK and nicked him he turned around like "WHAT?!" - another force and he then focused back on the pile and ran. I use a white stake to mark the pile so who knows what that was all about. The very next send he lined it like a rocket -- great 
It's too hot to do the full drill in all one session so we stopped there. Last night was session #2, this time I started at the 50 yard mark and worked back to the full 150 yards. I think on two of the sends he was forced half way en route, and did everything perfect. On the final send of the night I received in heel position, said "SIT" -- Bally looked out -- "GOOD" - "BACK" and he lined it from that far away!!! I was thrilled 
The last few steps of the drill involve forcing en route TWICE then lining from your side the full distance, so we'll save that for tomorrow. This drill was definitely the missing piece, I'm really happy I decided to do it. 
Will check back in later with more progress.


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## K9-Design

OK we did our last session on long distance force tonight and it went great. Set out pile, got the dog, we walked out to 75 yards and I sent Bally from my side. White stake so he saw it and ran right to it. Next send was a back cast from 100 yards, straight. Next I received him at 125 yards and sent him from my side. I forced once at about 40 yards out (medium 3) and once at about 90 yards out (low 4). He didn't seem to react at all. Proof would be in the pudding on the next send -- backed up to the full 150 yards, side send, he looked right out and flew to the stake (no pressure). No hesitation and fast. Woohoo! I think we're done with this and will move on to water pile tomorrow. I am anxious to get through water force work and on to decheating. Hoping to get a few water sessions in before I leave for shows next week.


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## K9-Design

Yippee we trained with our group tonight and first we did a few steady singles off the mat with Bally and he was perfect, then he ran the setup marks as singles, totally steady -- perfect!!!!  Will try to get to the pond tomorrow.


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## K9-Design

OK first session of water pile today went I suppose really well. I say suppose because Bally acted exactly like he does on land, which was pretty much perfect. I'm not sure I could have asked for any more of him. My channel is 15 yards across and he retrieved 10 bumpers. Force (remote send) on two, at a medium 3. He never once balked, hesitated, bugged, or whatever. Every send a leap in the water. Once he got a nick for stopping on the FAR shore (near the bumpers) and looking back, another nick for stopping with the bumper at the shore, dropping it and messing around a little. On the 2nd or 3rd send he decided to run ALLLLLL the way around on the way back, and got nicks the entire way. He didn't try to repeat that. Other than that he did great. I want to watch my Stawski vids tonight or before tomorrow's session to make sure I'm doing it right. Guess I should have done that yesterday! Have read all my books and pretty much did what they told me to do.
The only bad thing was, well besides being very hot, Bally drank about a gallon of water. He always coughs and sputters coming back with a bumper and with all the swimming he ingested a ton of it. No worse for the wear, just had to pee a lot a few hours later! Hoping he will figure it out.....


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## K9-Design

Water pile session #2 went great today. My timing was both terrible and perfect. Terrible because usually it's the hottest time of the day, didn't plan it but just worked out that way with other stuff to do. 5 p.m. and my weather app said 96º 45% humidity "feels like 106º" ewww! But right as I started setting out my bumpers a big cloud came over and it cooled down significantly, by the time I packed up to go it was sprinkling.
Anyways I basically repeated what I did yesterday, picked up 10 bumpers, about half side-sends, the other half remote casts. I am sending anywhere from 15-30 feet off the shore. By the end of the session I came to the conclusion that it must be making some impact on Bally because he was VERY eager to be sent -- either creeping for a side send or trying to autocast on a remote. 
He drank less water than yesterday so that's good too.


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## K9-Design

Another session today. Picked up 9 bumpers. I would like to be picking up more than 9 or 10, and my dog could do more, but the water is so freakin hot I am afraid to have him do that much. It is like, warmer than bathwater coming off the dog when he gets out. By the 4-5 send he is panting with big tongue hanging out. 
Anyways the only thing new I did today was a force en route IN the water. This is not something I've ever done before. I've been talking to my friend Jim (marshmop) about our progress and he asked if I had done it yet, and that it was on the Stawski video, which I hadn't watched yet. Watched it this afternoon and sure enough. So two sends today we did force en route in the water on a low-2. It was amazing to see how Bally instantly picked up speed and tried really hard to swim even faster. 
I am having a hard time getting him to sit either at my side or remote, he wants to go. Rather than beat that into the ground I think it's time to move on. If I can go out tomorrow I think we'll do multiple piles in the water.


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## K9-Design

OK we have trained a good fair bit since my last post.
First off Bally is doing great with his STEADY work -- I'm very pleased with that.
Today he got in trouble for BARKING while heeling to the line -- nonono
But he was steady 
For our water work we have really progressed. I did one session of "mini piles" (basically 3 piles marked with a white stake about 30-40 yards across a pond) -- when I set this up, the middle one was a bit longer and he could not clue in on the stake. The left and right piles he did and went to them with no trouble. The middle one, I thought he saw it, sent him, and he actually went about a third or halfway before turning to the right to go get a bumper from the right pile. I stopped him by saying "SIT" (he does not know a whistle sit, but this actually worked), gave him a left back, and he actually turned and went left -- all the way to the left pile! While not what I was expecting, I thought that was pretty freaking good! I decided that drill was of limited use in the water so we didn't go back to it.
Yesterday we had another session of backpile in the water, this time sending from pretty far up the shore, maybe from ~25 yards away.
Today we went to our friend Betsy's to train, who has wonderful technical ponds. I was able to set up a backpile in the water that was about 40 yards away and over a point. So Bally had to swim a 10 yard channel, run up and over about 5 yards of land, swim another 15 yards and then I put the pile about 10 yards back on the shore. The strips of land are long and narrow so no danger of cheating. I started by sending him from the finger -- no problem, then left him in a sit, ran around and casted him back to the pile from there. From then on out he lined it from the full distance and did GREAT. I forced several times, remote on a back cast, on the finger of land, once in the water, and once as he was exiting the water almost to the pile. He picked up 8 or 9 bumpers. He is getting much better about not swallowing a bunch of water, so that's good. We'll go again next week and repeat the drill. 
d


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## K9-Design

Hi! OK we have had a few water sessions since our last update. We went to Betsy's again on Monday to do FTP over a finger. All was going well until I tried to back up about 25-30 yards off the shore, at which point Bally gave me the first refusal of his life. I sent him from my side, he left but spun around and looked at me a few feet out. I did our no-go procedure a la Mitch White of 3 heels with 3 nicks each, sent him and Bally flew to the pile. Next send was a back cast, no problem, I can't remember if the next one after that was another side send or not but not soon after Bally balked again (remember, we are 25-30 yards from the water) and I repeated the correction. He again flew to the back pile. Not wanting to dig myself even deeper, my next side send I moved up to our "normal" 10 yards off the bank, and he had NO trouble. In fact he is so eager to go he doesn't want to sit in heel position. I was regretful that whole thing happened but this IS the point in training when you want things ironed out in the dog's head about expectations! 
Tuesday I went to our local pond where I can do a 15-yard back pile in the water, sent Bally a number of times and boy did he ever get the message. NO problems and the last send from my side was from probably 25 yards from the shore. This pond is in a residential neighborhood, and that send was from across the street to the retention pond. These people must think I'm nuts. They have no idea how valuable their retention pond is to my dog training.
So out to Betsy's again today, set up the pile over the point, and I built it much like the 150-yard long distance FTP (described previously), starting with a side send from the finger, then back cast off the finger, side send close to shore (over the finger), back cast with force over the finger, side send from 20 yards back, back cast with force from 20 yards back, etc, finally ending with two side-sends from 40 yards off the shore, making the whole pile about 80 yards away. Bally did GREAT. I did notice that when I backed up that far, he had of course a much wider view of the pond, and took a little longer to focus on the back pile. That is a LOT of terrain for him to take in. Anyways today was great so I'm calling it quits with this exercise. For the next week or so we'll just work on Wagon Wheel (I am up to 6-8 bumpers and he's doing REALLY well) and MARKS. Next big step is collar condition to whistle sit. 

Here is a picture from today, of our back pile over the point.


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## K9-Design

I didn't realize it'd been so long since an update. We have had lots of shows including the National since September. For yardwork we've been keeping up on lining drills and 3-handed casting (baseball) with diversions. I work on all manner of diversion throws with Bally and he's gotten pretty good at it.

Last week I buckled down and started on collar conditioning to whistle sit. He has had plenty of repetitions with the whistle learning that it means SIT. Heeling & sitting, sitting while coming in from a retrieve, my long-line turn & sit drill. He responded OK but not perfect by any means.

I decided I was going to CC to sit whistle using the old Dobbs method of putting the collar around the dog's waist with the receiving unit on top, over the dog's hips. After doing a lot of reading and considering what I had done with Fisher & Slater, I decided to try it. Mitch is here in FL this winter and he uses this method so if I screw it up, at least I have him to fall back on!

So we spent two days just getting used to the feel of the collar around Bally's waist. He wore the bark collar (turned off) around his neck. He quickly learned to ignore his "belt" and we practiced all of our sitting drills with no pressure for 2 days. 

On the 3rd session I began adding collar pressure while heeling. I would walk briskly, blow the whistle and keep on walking. Bally was expected to sit immediately and not follow me. The Dobbs book makes it real cut and dry -- hold down the button until the dog's butt is on the ground! In an effort not to over think it, that's exactly what I did. They also advised that dogs were more sensitive on their rump than their neck, and to go down a level. That I had doubts on, and I was right. I started with a low two, and didn't get a reaction until I got to a low four!! 
Anyways over the next few sessions we progressed quickly to sitting with collar pressure for slow compliance on the following steps:

1 - walking briskly at heel
2 - running at heel
3 - recall with sit halfway back
4 - recall with bumper in mouth, sit half way back
5 - throw fun bumper, sit half way back 
6 - Now the true test. Walk single bumper out about 40 feet away, return to dog. Send and blow the whistle half way. Bally's first true whistle sit en route to a retrieve and.....he did it! SUPER! Only problem I noticed is he sat down so fast his back was to me. The next session I held a 2nd bumper in my hand, and waved it as he turned, which gave a much straighter sit, followed by releasing him to fetch the bumper. This little step got him sitting much straighter. 
7 - Sitting en route to a pile of bumpers ~40 yards away. Today was our first session with an actual pile and I was REALLY REALLY happy. Bally did about 10 sends to the pile, and I think I stopped him on 3 of the sends. His sits were great. On the 8th send I stopped him twice en route, rather than just at the halfway point, then sends 9 & 10 were freebees to the pile. He had GREAT momentum and never anticipated the whistle, yet his sits were immediate and no looping.

I want to work up to a long-distance sit-to-pile drill (150+ yards) with the collar still on his butt, and hopefully borrow a friend's collar to have a working remote collar on butt and neck for a quick transition to only the neck collar. Haven't hammered out exactly my progression there but --- so far so good.

Not sure if it's the dog, my training schedule or both, but every step of the way I have encountered very little confusion and thus we're able to move along quickly.


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## K9-Design

We have worked almost every day on sit on the whistle. We've now transferred the collar back to the neck and can stop multiple times to a pile 40-50 yards away. Very pleased with progress!!!! Will start on single T next.


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## K9-Design

Here's an update a month later. We are officially into single-T and Bally's transferrence of all the previous skills onto T went without a single hitch. He put it all together in one session. I've done T probably 6-8 times now and he is flawless on his going, stopping, casting. I can throw poison bumpers and run him, throw to an over pile and send him to a back pile, he will handle with the bumper in his mouth and do a "run-by." About the only thing that confuses him is sometimes he gets turned around if I do a back-cast from a remote sit right in front of me to send him to the back pile. Yesterday I put a holding blind out in the middle of my T and he totally ignored it. 

Today we were training water so I set up a back pile and stopped him en route in the water -- first time ever -- he did real real well, no problems!

I am VERY pleased with his progress, not only is he a quick learner but he very quickly puts pieces together with little confusion. I will say, his demeanor is very different from Slater. Slater has an incredible work ethic and saddled with any task he goes after it like his life depends on it. He is very demonstrative in his desire to do whatever it is, and to do it quickly. If you put pressure on him he definitely feels it although works through it. He wears his emotions on his sleeve. Bally is more out for a joy ride -- this is easy for him and he enjoys it -- but he doesn't act like his very being exists for single-T  I wouldn't change anything at this point, but it is a different pace than his older brother. Bally is more independent and doesn't need my help or approval for everything, Slater hangs on my every word. Quite amusing!!!


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## K9-Design

Single T today complete with pink flamingoes and holding blinds 

71º 78% humidity


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## MillionsofPeaches

I use flamingos too, so funny!


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## K9-Design

We had another session of stopping to the back pile in the water today. Bally did real well. The first few stops I held and swung a bumper which got him to focus on me, now he's treading water pretty well without it. I've been doing this on a piece of water that is about 30 yards across, so kinda far -- I think next time I will go put it on my smaller swim-by area so I can put in some side piles. The only benefit is when I finally get to a swim-by, I want to be able to throw a bumper to the side piles, and this larger area is a bit to big for me to be able to do that. It will be good to come back to it on the larger scale as a proof. Anyways, we're moving right along....


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## K9-Design

More T work today. I am working on getting him proficient in the run-by and disciplined casting before moving on to double-T. Today we made real progress. Was able to get in a lot of handling by stopping and casting on the way back from the back pile. I actually forced on an over twice because I gave a cast and he just sat there. I gave the cast again and nicked as he started to go. It definitely helped.


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## K9-Design

Have tried to get a session in every day. We've hammered out the kinks on disciplined casting/run-by and he is really quite adorable at it and fast. He is perfect on running-by to the right over pile, needs more work on going to left over pile.
Two sessions ago I decided to start stretching out the center line to build our double T. Some definite confusion there. I started by sitting him remote at what used to be our "home plate" but is now the intersection for the closer over piles, and casting him back. Got a lot of trying to run to over piles, especially the right one, as right back cast is his weaker cast. I found that if I backed up that far, my field is slightly convex and the dog cannot see the back pile from the new starting point, so I added a white stake which helped. Today I set out the 2nd set of overs, and just worked on the center line, both remote casts and sending from my side.


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## K9-Design

Yesterday and today our TT sessions were a breakthrough. 
I was slightly dissatisfied with Bally's speed to the backpile --- but hesitant to force much as I know he is trying to figure it out. I am really happy that he has never popped, and he understands that if he runs through an intersection without hearing a whistle he is home free and speeds up, which is cute, and of course very smart. But I was getting some looking around while running, not running as fast as I know he's capable, and some mistakes due to not putting in a lot of effort to be right (i.e. caving to side piles). So yesterday I got a little fed up with all of it. I had forced en route on one send with a medium-3 and got no response. The next send I forced on a low-4, no response, immediately again with a medium-4, no response, immediately again with a high-4 (this is all instantaneously on the same send) and WOW that got a response! Vocalizing and Bally turned on the afterburners and hauled azz to the back pile! YES! Amazing how after that he could both run fast AND not think about the over piles! Amazing! We quit after 2 or 3 more sends to end on a high note.

This morning I've already been out to the field -- First send was slower than I would like so I forced on medium-4 no response immediately high-4, he vocalized, spun to look at me, back cast and hauled butt to the pile. From then on out every send was at warp speed and great commitment. Normally I would be loathe to do that on the first send of the session but I can't let him get away with being lackadaisical from here on out. Only one time did he try to go for an over and I think it was to avoid the spot he got burned in. One handle put him back on the back pile. After that all of his sends were fast and straight. 
I also sat him remotely at both intersections and cast to each over pile (all four) individually. On subsequent sends I stopped him on the way back, first at the close intersection, and did a run-by (first to left pile, then all the way over to right pile). Next send on the return I stopped him at the far intersection and did a run-by in the opposite direction. On that one he needed a handle as he tried to dig back toward the back pile. Brought him in a little and re-cast over, and he went right away. A few more straight sends and we were done.

I think at tomorrow's session I will start up closer to the pile and back up, or do remote casts. I do not want to get in a situation where I have to force en route after sending from my side full length on the first one. Don't want to set up a self-fulfilling prophecy of expecting something bad to happen.


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## K9-Design

I've been toying with moving on to pattern blinds but was waiting for a few sessions of nearly 100% double T. Today was GREAT. Everything was super : speed, attitude, compliance. Only one bad cast today, and I had one sequence where I sent him with the bumper in his mouth, stopped on the far intersection, overed to the right, run-by to left pile, stopped, overed to center line, called in to close intersection, and did a run-by in the opposite way, with no flaws and super cute waggy tail on every sit. Can't ask for more! I have obedience trials this weekend then cramming for our hunt test the next two weeks (Slater, not Bally). I think I might try setting up my pattern blinds then, and start our water T also. Both things at Lazy J. I did pattern blinds with my other two at a local community college field, but now that I've moved it's equal distance and I'd rather not deal with the risk of roaming public at the college. Plus it's easier to recruit gunners at Lazy J once it's time to do PBs w/ diversions.
Anyways I've also been working on drills to improve casting and lining. We've started walking baseball and Bally is super cute at it. A perfect drill for casting and teaching come-ins and angle-ins. I will go through my books and see what other drills will be appropriate for his level.


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## K9-Design

We started our T in the water today by putting out all three piles and establishing the back pile. Sent 10 times, force on two. Sent from both left and right side, and remote casts both ways. Will try to get a picture of the swim by pond tomorrow.


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## K9-Design

Session today I taught the left over pile. Probably can't train until Saturday and will of course do right over pile, then put it all together.


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## K9-Design

Tuesday I taught the right over pile and today we put it all together and did a swim-by. He is fluent in taking all the casts and sits (treading) are good so no need to belabor simple baseball casting in the water. Anyways for the first swim-by I cast to the left pile, sat him, threw a bumper to the right pile, and cast over. He took it in one cast. Next time I again cast him to the left pile, sat him, and with one OVER cast he did a perfect swim-by to the right pile. (no toss to help) Stopped and sat him at the pile, walked out and threw fun bumpers on that side. His line to the over pile was perfect and fast -- really nice!!!! Tomorrow I will do the swim-by in the opposite direction.


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## K9-Design

Have trained every day since my last post. I taught the swimby right to left and actually had some slight trouble which was good. With my other two dogs I did a lot more teaching/helping by throwing bumpers to over piles and I never had any corrections for not taking the over/swimby casts, but I never felt like they understood the takehome message of handling away from shore. They did it but it was just obedience and to get a bumper. Bally I think is getting more out of it. Here's a picture of our swimby pond:









It's hard to tell from the photo but the shore bends more gradually on the RIGHT side. So a more gradual curve from the right over to the back pile. The left over is an acute angle so not tempting. Anyways in casting Bally off the right over and into the water he wants to run back along the shore toward the back pile. Yesterday was a GREAT session. First time I cast off the right pile he started to dig back on the shore, I whistled and said "NO." Recalled and he ran back to the over pile, stopped with whistle. I threw a bumper to the left over, and cast him and he did it perfect. 
Next time I went to cast him into the water from the right over, he again dug back and tried to run on land toward the back pile. Whistle sit, NO and this time a nick with medium 2. Called him in and he jumped in the water and came toward me, I stopped him, cast him left and he took it all the way to the left over. 
When he got to the left over pile, I stopped him and cast him to the right pile -- no problems. I met him at the right over, we had a little party and I threw a fun bumper straight into the water toward the left over to emphasize that line. I left him sitting at the right over pile with a bumper in his mouth, and walked back to my center line. Cast left and he jumped in perfect and swam to the left over.

Next time I had him at the right over, I cast left into the water. Another dig back, within 2 steps I sat him with the whistle, yelled "NO" and nicked on a low 3. Again cast into the water, another dig back, whistle sit, "NO!" nick on medium 3. Cast into the water, and Bally LEAPT into the water and swam straight to the left pile! YES! From there I stopped and casted him to the right pile, no problems. Sat him at the right over, gave one cast "OVER" left -- and he hopped in perfect and swam to the left over. Yes! Success! 

Mind you he got an equal number of straight sends to the back pile or stop in the middle and cast to back pile, so this was a lot of work. Probably 20 minute session. I thought it was really productive and getting the corrections and working through it were great. No session today but will go back out tomorrow.


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## K9-Design

Really cool session today. If you look at the above picture of my swimby pond you'll see that the left over is at the end of a point. To the left of that point is a 10-yard wide channel that that curves back behind the back pile. Anyways today I put a second left over pile across the channel. So when I sent Bally over to the left over pile, I stopped him and again gave a left over -- and NO HESITATION he leapt into the water and swam to the other pile!!! YAY! By the end of the session I was able to send him all the way across from the right over to the wayyyy left over pile (across channel) and all the way back again. Too cool -- a first for me. I also realized that behind my backpile is that same channel that curves around, and another finger on the other side. I'm putting out a second back pile tomorrow so I can cast Bally back off the finger to the one behind it. Getting creative


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## K9-Design

OMG AMAZING session today!!!!! And look, a diagram!









Today I put out a 2nd back pile. First time I lined Bally to it from the original (first) back pile, then left him sitting at the first back pile, walked around the pond and cast him back to the 2nd back pile. From then on out about every other straight send I would let him pick up a bumper at the middle pile, sit him, and cast him back to the 2nd back pile with a bumper in his mouth. He did it perfect and lovely momentum, leaping in the water with each cast. I sent him back and forth between the 3 over piles, all flawless on first cast. 

So tomorrow I think I am going to remove the middle back pile and run it with the assumption of "back" means go over the finger and on to the far pile. After that I think we're done and ready to move on.


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## Kmullen

Bally is awesome!! I guess his trainer is not too bad either...


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## nolefan

Love reading this, so interesting to hear your observations on how he's learning differently. The diagram is quite impressive 




K9-Design said:


> OMG AMAZING session today!!!!! And look, a diagram!
> 
> View attachment 494793
> 
> 
> Today I put out a 2nd back pile. First time I lined Bally to it from the original (first) back pile, then left him sitting at the first back pile, walked around the pond and cast him back to the 2nd back pile. From then on out about every other straight send I would let him pick up a bumper at the middle pile, sit him, and cast him back to the 2nd back pile with a bumper in his mouth. He did it perfect and lovely momentum, leaping in the water with each cast. I sent him back and forth between the 3 over piles, all flawless on first cast.
> 
> So tomorrow I think I am going to remove the middle back pile and run it with the assumption of "back" means go over the finger and on to the far pile. After that I think we're done and ready to move on.


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## K9-Design

Alright so evaluation time. I've gone through all of my books and notes and wrote out another list of training tasks to accomplish. I need to re-watch my Stawski tapes. A few weeks ago I put in the 3rd tape which covers swimby, pattern blinds and PBs w/ diversions and it was REALLY different. Some stuff I liked, some I didn't. Need to re-watch it and wrap my head around it and pick out what I want to do.

Here's my list for the next few months:

SKILLS : 

1 - Double T = *DONE*
DRILLS : 


Heeling drills (return to heel, square, backwards, pivots, 1-step alignment)
Walking baseball
come-in/angle-in
long-distance back drill
2 - Water T & Swimby = *DONE*
DRILLS:


Cast into water drill
3 - Pattern Blinds
DRILLS:


Blind Drills
Lining Drills : 3 in a row, differential lining, 2 tier WW, pyramid
4 - Pattern Blinds w/ Diversions
DRILLS:


Chair drill
No-No drill
5 - Decheating
After swimby:


Decheating drill
Decheating blind stake
 After PBs w/ Diversions & No-No Drill:


Cheating singles
Channel marks & blinds
Down-the-shore drill
Blind drill and/or chair drill in water
6 - MARKING CONCEPTS


doubles
bulldogs
honor
remote send & honor
walk-ups
water doubles
I put the skills we have mastered in GREEN and the skills we have done but either have just started or are a lifetime revisit in ORANGE.

Last week I did a chair drill with Bally which is probably a little premature but it was AMAZING.

Two chairs about 7-8 yards apart, 25 yards from the back pile. Another 25 yards deep past the chairs I put a large branch enroute to the pile. So to get to the pile Bally had to jump over the branch and run through the chairs. My friend was the gunner, so we did the following steps:


Run to back pile, no gunner
Run to back pile, gunner in chair
Gunner throws mark away from line, p/u mark, run to backpile
Gunner throws mark over the line (under the arc), p/u mark, run to backpile
Gunner throws mark on line, p/u mark, run to back pile
Gunner throws poison bird away from line, p/u blind, p/u mark
Gunner throws poison bird over the line, p/u blind,p/u mark
Gunner throws poison bird ON LINE, run dog to back pile with bumper in mouth, then p/u mark
3 walking singles from gunner! 
Bally DID AMAZING. I did have some handling. It is difficult sometimes to tell whether the dog is looking at the gunner or down through the chairs to the back pile. But overall it was really successful and I'm thrilled that I can get such compliance from a young dog who's done very little handling, and really really really wants his marks  The on-line poison bird with bumper in mouth I picked up from Mitch  It worked.


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## MillionsofPeaches

great list for all of us to reference! Thank you!


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## K9-Design

We started pattern blinds tonight!









OK I know you can't see much but I love playing with the panoramic camera on my phone 

I set out ribbons at all three but we're starting with just the middle one. I sent Bally I think 7 times, starting at 40 yards away with marking the pile and getting to about half way. One time when sending from full distance he popped, I just cast back before he had a chance to sit, he didn't do that again. 

(I have to say I ran Slater on this middle one from full distance and he freaking one-whistled it. Gooooooooooooooood boy!!!!)

Bally also got two long water marks after cooling off from his pattern blind


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## K9-Design

Day two. First sent Bally from about 70-80 yards from the pile, he took off but went a little left, so I stopped him and he took one cast to the pile. One other time at about 3/4 the full length he went left again from a remote back cast, I tried handling but I eventually called him in and started over because it wasn't improving. That time he also went left but I stopped him much sooner and he went all the way with one cast. We ended up stopping at about this same distance (3/4 so about 250 yards) and he lined it twice. 

Pattern blind work dovetails nicely with water marks as they really have no bearing on each other. Yesterday Kristin threw some singles for him, today I trained alone so I did walking singles around the big middle pond which was pretty cool -- Bally sat like a stone as I walked allllllll the way around and he got in some pretty long swims.


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## K9-Design

OK yesterday I took a video of our pattern blind session.

This session had two parts. The first part, which I did not video, I started with the first send about 100 yards away and Bally lined it. We worked our way back to about 275 yards then I put him up for 10-15 while he cooled down. Then we came back out and I attempted to line him from the full 330 yds which is the part I video taped. 

I could not get him to line the pattern again -- but the results are REALLY great. He handled. And stuck with me. And got a correction and responded amazingly well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJRrMw4TX_M

I do let him roll a little bit at first rather than handling right away. I want to see if he'll correct his own line. Obviously not LOL
Lots of ping-ponging on the first blind, using only attrition to get him in the right direction. It looks rough -- BUT -- this is my dog learning to handle  

FYI this is also his first time seeing angle back casts -- I do not do drills to teach these -- just put them to use in real handling and the dogs seem to understand right away.

On the 2nd send at 3:57 I give him 3 identical casts all of which were cast refusals, him digging back to the left. I whistle - NO - nick (low 3) - NO, call in a few feet to break momentum, and cast angle back right. He takes a really lovely cast angle back right forever ------ so I let him roll and roll and roll and then finally stop him, praise, and call back because I know I'm not going to salvage that particular send. That was the one and only time he was corrected with the collar today.

On the 3rd send I moved up about 50 yards, lined him up and kicked him off. He takes the send about 50 yards then veers to the left, quick whistle and a cast which he takes all the way to the blind --- GREAT job!!!!

So I think I am going to move my line up to about where I sent him the last time. 

An RTF thread I've kept for years was really helpful to review at this stage:

Does anybody else dislike T and TT???? - Page 3

I wasn't sure if what I was doing was good, my goal is to have Bally line the pattern blinds, but instead I'm getting a lot of handling at least at this early in the game. The above thread reminded me that this is where dogs learn to handle in a "real time" experience -- so that's OK


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## K9-Design

GREAT training session today. I moved my line up about 50 yards so now the middle one is about 250-275 yds. Bally lined it TWICE. I said OK you've got it, let's build blind #2, which is the shortest one off to the left. Built it up in about 4 sends, then he lined it from full distance. Turned and he lined the middle one, then turned again and he lined the left one. FUN! He's getting it. Will try to line both tomorrow, we'll see.

We also did a taught land double, both marks about 100 yards. Bally did great although wants to break in between watching marks go down! I just hold his tab.


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## K9-Design

Today Bally did a lot of running. He lined both the middle and left hand blinds from full distance to start. Said, well, let's put in #3 so we built up the right hand one, took about 4 sends backing up to build the whole thing. Then he lined it from full distance. Then I had him pick up left, middle, right and he lined all three. Woooooooo!!!! A LOT of running. Very pleased.


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## K9-Design

A beautiful day today. I am over the moon with how well Bally is doing. He totally gets everything I throw at him. Today I set up all three pattern blinds (since I shortened them up about the yardage is roughly 150, 250 and 275 yards). HE LINED ALL THREE. We called it a day! SOOOOO happy 

I have to read up on pattern blinds with diversions and form a game plan.


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## K9-Design

Monday : Lined all 3 pattern blinds again. Lines up no muss no fuss and hauls butt out there. Let him rest, then did blind drill, back pile at ~90 yards, gunner at about 30 yards. One handle on the under-the-arc blind, otherwise he lined it. Bally TOTALLY gets poison birds -- really cool. 

Tuesday : Quick blind drill session with gunner at ~60 yards. Again a handle after the under the arc throw. Not sure if he is headed toward the old fall or flaring the gunner. Personally I think he's flaring the gunner. He had a little more trouble pulling off the gunner than when they were closer, but after the first two mark-and-blind he figured it out and was perfect.

Wednesday : Marks on Pattern Blind field! Dead birds.
1 - Gunner between left and middle blinds. Sent for middle blind -- lined it.
2 - Gunner throws toward middle blind (away from line of left blind). P/u mark, lined left blind. 
3 - Gunner moved deeper and closer to middle blind. Throws toward line of middle blind, p/u mark. Send Bally for middle blind, he heads directly toward where the bird fell, stopped and gave a literal cast (angle back right). Scallop. Stop, give an "over" right. He takes it perfectly until he is on the correct line for the blind, makes a turn by himself and proceeds to the blind. How did he know to do that????? Sooooooo cool 

We stopped on that. Very happy


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## K9-Design

Today we ran a mark and blind with each pattern blind. Gunner was up close within 50 yards. 
First was a throw toward the line of the left blind. Lined the blind.
Second was a throw over the line (under the arc) of the middle blind. Interesting....I didn't spend much time lining Bally up as I didn't want to fuss with him too much. He headed toward where the bird had landed. I think it took two casts to get him beyond the AOF, but he was a bit ping-ponging. It took two more casts until he understood OH -- THE BLIND! And then he ran to it the rest of the way. 
Third throw was a poison bird away from the line of the right hand blind. Bally gets bonus points for thinking. He watched the bird go down, I quietly said, "no - heel," took a step back, then took a step forward toward blind #3, and said "dead bird." He looked left to blind #2, where he had just been! Now how smart is that. I tried a little bit to get him to look at blind #3 but he was swinging back and forth between the gunner and blind #2. Heeled forward 5 steps, and then he was able to lock on and then he lined blind #3. Really cool session


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## K9-Design

I think we're about done on pattern blinds. Today it was quite warm so we only did two sets (mark & blind) but Bally did really well. Put the gunner out about 75% of the distance, between the middle and right blind. Threw toward the blind for both throws. I think he one or two whistled them both. No sweat. I think time to move on.

We did a cast-into-water drill and he was perfect! 

We also did some walk-up marks for the first time today. I set up two holding blinds out in the field. Took him twice of doing it before he figured out what was going on. On the third throw he did it just right. Good puppy!


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## K9-Design

Today Bally ran his first cold land blinds. It went GREAT. First I set up 3 blinds about 90º apart, 125-175 yards long, marked with stakes. Field was wide open, completely flat, no features and short cover (mowed). The first one I had probably 4-5 casts, the next two -- he lined!! I picked those up, turn around to face the other half of the field and set out two more, each a little longer. I got plenty of handling on those two, but Bally worked with me and really was adorable. He is sort of like a teenager behind the wheel for the first time. Hits the gas too fast, the brakes to hard, takes turns too sharp. But enthusiastic as hell to be driving!!!! I was REALLY pleased with him  

We also did heeling later on, no food lure, hand at waist and bumper under left armpit. He did GREAT -- definitely the best heeling ever. He even tugged on the bumper harder than ever. Coming along!!!!


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## K9-Design

So the first three days I ran the blinds marked with white stakes, by the third day Bally had figured out that game and was able to pick out the white stake at 200 yards and run to it ---- nice trick but not exactly the point 
Yesterday I switched to orange stakes and I think that was a good move. Two I got handles on, the third he lined but he obviously didn't see the stake from the beginning. He headed in a pretty good direction, I let him roll and he eventually saw the orange stake. 
Today we're just going to stay home and do drills but will go back out tomorrow. He is definitely getting "the game"


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## K9-Design

OK so a month later and we're making progress. Bally has run lots of looooooong land blinds, he will take a great initial line, stops pretty good on the whistle, getting good casts at this point is dicey but he goes and sorta kinda works with me  I don't run any blinds under 150 yards. Dead bird, back and he takes off. He's fast. 

We started water blinds last week, keeping them very simple and straightforward, so far so good. 

Our drills in the past month:

Pyramid lining drill (I find this much more productive than WW because he's starting to refuse to even look at hte close bumpers in offset WW --- he figured that game out wayyyyyy too quick)
5 handed casting (overs, back and angle backs)
walking baseball
walkups
long, simple doubles, land and water
diversions thrown on the way back in
honor w/ bumper in mouth
remote sends on placemat

I made the decision to start him on simple water blinds before I get in to decheating as I want him to have some idea of a water blind before I put pressure on the shore. I think that was a good move. I'll just do simple water blinds until I think he really has the hang of it.


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## MillionsofPeaches

I'm assuming that with the offset wagon wheel you mean that you put out orange between the white? I don't know but funny thing happened at a stupid seminar I went to. The trainer was trying to show the women how to do wagon wheel and Katniss was the only dog that had any real training in the field at all. These were all beginners without even simple field obedience. I didn't want to get up there because I hate being "on stage" but I felt pressured. The bumpers were about ten yards away if that. simple. Katniss would NOT line them. At all. She was avoiding them. i was so embarrassed but realized that it was that drill we did the previous week! She was way too smart for me! The trainer was all telling me that she shouldn't be running any cold blinds if she wouldn't even pick up a bumper ten yards away from me and I kept my mouth shut, but I was so embarrassed!


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## K9-Design

By offset I mean every other one is shorter then longer away. I use white bumpers on my offset WW because the point is not to run a cold blind but to line between the short ones, and I don't want to box a dog all around a far bumper just because they can't see the orange in the grass -- just not the point. I swear I've only run that drill 3-4 times with Bally and already he figured out the point was to get the farther one. Last time I did it I couldn't even get him to look at the short ones, so forget it. I'm at the point where the only thing I really use WW for is practicing the proper sit-good-back sequence when Slater gets buggy on real blinds. 
Fisher got to be the same way when I did W drill or WW, I could not put him on a short bumper for anything. At that point it's like -- alright this drill has lost its purpose!!! haha


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## FTGoldens

K9-Design said:


> By offset I mean every other one is shorter then longer away. I use white bumpers on my offset WW because the point is not to run a cold blind but to line between the short ones, and I don't want to box a dog all around a far bumper just because they can't see the orange in the grass -- just not the point. I swear I've only run that drill 3-4 times with Bally and already he figured out the point was to get the farther one. Last time I did it I couldn't even get him to look at the short ones, so forget it. I'm at the point where the only thing I really use WW for is practicing the proper sit-good-back sequence when Slater gets buggy on real blinds.
> Fisher got to be the same way when I did W drill or WW, I could not put him on a short bumper for anything. At that point it's like -- alright this drill has lost its purpose!!! haha


Been there, seen that.
That's when you make them pick up whichever ones you line to ... whether short or long.
FTGoldens


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## K9-Design

To me the dog is showing good intent and IMO not worth the fight to get them to pick up the short one. I've walked up within 3 feet of it and still he wouldn't look at the close one, and I'm not ear pinching or using collar pressure for it. The dog's trying to be good. There are lots of other lining drills that don't involve a bumper right in their face that we can spend time on.


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## K9-Design

So it's been a month since my last entry. In that time we've worked on:

Doubles
BLINDS (LOTS of water blinds, primarily)
Having someone else throw a diversion bird
Bally finished his breed championship so we got that out of the way 

We've done nothing but water blinds and Bally has really developed on those. He knows the points is : get in and keep swimming. I need to revisit T on land and probably water too, to crisp up the whistle sits, but his casting is good, and he'll swim a long way. Great momentum.

Today we started our first decheating drill. I use the Mitch White/Miners method. It sort of went OK for the first time??

It only took one correction on the way back for Bally to understand not to cheat on the way back. After the first correction he didn't cheat going out on land, but rather got feet wet and ran along the shore (no good). But he would never cheat coming back so I couldn't correct him. I ended up yelling "NO - HERE" and nicking all the way back as he cheated on the way out. I had to make the cheater mark be less cheaty, so the difference between cheat by running in the water, and not cheating, was more obvious. We did three sets in three different places, by the end of it he had totally figured it out. I keep forgetting Bally needs things to be very black and white, very obvious, very clear corrections, and then he totally gets it. We'll do more tomorrow.


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## K9-Design

OK so yesterday (day #2) of decheating didn't go great. I repeated the throws on all three pond corners we taught on the first day, except running in the opposite direction, and Bally was perfect. So I moved to a new spot. He definitely is getting in the water but is cutting the corner a little bit to make it there faster. It's a real judgement call on my part, so it's hard to be consistent. I felt like he was really trying but I was not doing a good job explaining it to him. I stopped and put a call into Mitch White. 
Mitch called me back today and suggested rather than yelling NO-HERE I use my whistle and stop him, let him settle, then call back with nicks. Throw the bumper on the line but in the water and teach him rather than letting him guess. Not to expect perfection as too much nit picking at this stage can cause water anxiety. 
So we headed back out this afternoon, I went to a new corner, taught it by throwing the bumper along the line first halfway in the water, then closer to the far shore, and finally up on land on the far shore. It was less of a corner and more of a down-the shore thing, but short, only like 20 yards. When the bumper was thrown on the far shore, that is when Bally cheated just a little, but noticeable. I stopped him with the whistle, let him settle down, and called back with nicks. He actually returned on the cheaty route rather than diving into more water (like he was when I was yelling NO-HERE), so the nicks were justified. I threw the concept mark (straight in and out of water), then re-threw the cheater mark to the far shore, and he did it PERFECT. Straight there and back. Yippee!!! Success. So I will continue to do these concept hand-throws until I can't fool him, then I'll get someone else to throw cheater singles for me.


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## nolefan

K9-Design said:


> So it's been a month since my last entry. In that time we've worked on:
> 
> Doubles
> BLINDS (LOTS of water blinds, primarily)
> Having someone else throw a diversion bird
> Bally finished his breed championship so we got that out of the way
> 
> We've done nothing but water blinds and Bally has really developed on those. He knows the points is : get in and keep swimming. I need to revisit T on land and probably water too, to crisp up the whistle sits, but his casting is good, and he'll swim a long way. Great momentum.
> 
> Today we started our first decheating drill. I use the Mitch White/Miners method. It sort of went OK for the first time??
> 
> It only took one correction on the way back for Bally to understand not to cheat on the way back. After the first correction he didn't cheat going out on land, but rather got feet wet and ran along the shore (no good). But he would never cheat coming back so I couldn't correct him. I ended up yelling "NO - HERE" and nicking all the way back as he cheated on the way out. *I had to make the cheater mark be less cheaty, so the difference between cheat by running in the water, and not cheating, was more obvious. We did three sets in three different places, by the end of it he had totally figured it out.* I keep forgetting Bally needs things to be very black and white, very obvious, very clear corrections, and then he totally gets it. We'll do more tomorrow.


Thank you SO much for this, it meshes for me with what I'm hearing pros say about simplifying until the dog understands. Very nice example.


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## nolefan

Thanks for keeping up with this thread Anney, I hope you will try to keep updating through this part. We still aren't to this point but I know it's coming.


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## K9-Design

On Sunday we had an OK session but what I started to notice was that with better behavior going out to the thrown bumper, I got more and more avoidance of the shore coming back. As in, Bally would jump back into the water really fat and be hesitant to exit when coming back to me. Some of the times it was really obvious to the point of being detrimental so I gave nicks and said "here" in the water. That made it worse and even got him turning away from the water when he would grab the bumper, and I would have to call him in, stop him and handle on the way back because he wanted to go fat, etc.
I decided that night after ruminating on it that I would not use pressure in the water on the way back for a fat return, rather attrition/handling.
Well wouldn't you know we did another session yesterday (in the rain) and Bally was GREAT. Only one of the sends did I have to correct for taking a moderately cheaty route out. All of his returns were perfect. He would grab the bumper, seek me out, and have his eyes on me the whole time, returning on a perfect line. Yay!
I still feel like we need more sessions of this before moving on.


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## K9-Design

OK update. I never did get 100% on the hand-thrown cheaters but decided I needed to move on. Graduated to having a gunner throw the cheater marks (cheating singles) and Bally actually has done really well. Every once in a while I get a correction in. Overall he understands it quite well. I have to tell myself this is a process and will take a lot of time and repetition. I am moving on to channel marks the next time we train water.

We have started to do more setups incorporating walkups, marks and blinds, dry shots, diversions, etc and Bally has taken all with stride.


As far as our marking Bally is doing really well on his doubles. I've now decided if the memory bird on land is simple, no more teaching by doing it as a single. I do try to keep my memory birds long, why not -- the dog doesn't know the difference. In the water I am still doing memory birds as singles. So far so good. I am noticing my decheating paying off on his marking setups. 

Blinds are going GREAT I have started to notice the past few weeks he is taking much more literal casts. It almost happened over night. He understands go over a point in the water really well.


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## K9-Design

Excited about tonight's training. We started channel marks (cheaters). We have a LARGE channel available to us, it's actually shaped like an "L" so you can go down either channel. Channel is about 25 yards wide. I started with us basically at the shore, at one end, mark landing in the middle at ~35 yards. Bally had no problem, I backed up to about 30 yards off the shore (end of channel), gunner went about 60 yards down the channel, again mark landing in middle of channel. Again Bally was perfect. BIG water entries on the right line.
Next we repeated the exact distances ran/swam but this time the mark was shorter landing about 4-5 yards off the shore. A test. Bally did the closer one perfect, and on the longer one began to fade just a tad as he neared the bumper (fatigue and he could probably touch the bottom every once in a while so the temptation to bank and run was there). I handled once which corrected his line and he returned on the perfect line. 
It was very hot out and he had consumed a lot of water by this point, so we quit when he still had a good attitude. Make that great attitude. I was really happy with this. We will repeat the same mark we ended on tomorrow, then will flip it and run down the other side of the channel.
Finally seeing this decheating work pay off. It will be a long process.


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## K9-Design

More cheating/channel marks. Bally is improving by leaps and bounds. Saturday night we trained again at L pond and began by repeating the same mark he handled on the night before. ~30 yard entry, ~60 swim down the shore about 15 feet off shore. This time he NAILED IT and even went a little fat!!!! Great.

Had gunner move around and repeat this throw on the right shore. Ahhhhh --- fooled em Bally entered the water skinny and started to go to the shore immediately. Stopped and he turned into the water and sat. Nice thinking  I called back without nicks since he jumped in and returned via water. He obviously knew what he did wrong. Repeated the throw and he was AMAZING.

Yesterday we went down to Wayne's and trained at T pond. The top of the "T" is a long narrow channel, well about 10 yards across and 75 yards long. Placed mark in the middle of the far end of the channel with a splash (visible white bumper). The water is down so there is a drop down off the shore into the water. We ran from about 25 yards back from the shore and when I sent Bally he majorly cheated off to the right, called back with lots of nicks on medium 3. Repeated throw, this time he did a correct entry, carried line about half way town the channel before starting to fade to the left. Handled to the bumper. Repeated throw again and he lined it just right. GOOOOOD DOG!!!

He has also retrieved a good number of no pressure, square entry, watery marks to balance things out so water isn't all a pressure filled obstacle course!

Day off training today.


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## MillionsofPeaches

I really wish I could train with you one day, your setups always sound so wonderful!


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## K9-Design

Come on down, the water's fine! 
How close are you to Perry, GA?


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## MillionsofPeaches

Not too far, about 2.5 hours.


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## K9-Design

Wow -- long time since I've added anything. Between travel and work I have not done anything terribly progressive with Bally's field training. We trialed and he earned his SH (and JH) back to back weekends in August, then had the Golden National to tackle in September. Now we're back home with GREAT weather and can now use the water at Lazy J again. Our fall field trial was this past weekend meaning any gators still hanging around, are not any more.

My big push this "semester" with Bally is teaching him to hold good lines on marks and blinds in the water. Start to see pictures. 

I'm starting with what I think is the most obvious picture, and that is holding a line past a point. Once he gets this I want to move on to down the shore. Improving on both angle entries/exits and holding the line.

The past few sessions we have worked on holding a line past a point in the water, with mixed results. Sometimes I think he gets it, other times he completely falls for it and goes to touch ground on the point.

Yesterday I tried handling (he easily takes a cast off and away from the point), but that didn't seem to get the message across. It was only when I called him back when he took the wrong line that his behavior changed. We did a series of singles where the correct line was about 8-10 feet off a prominent, rather obvious point. The gunner stood even with the point on the back shore and threw away from the point (all the throws happened to be right to left, as all the points came from the right shore). There was a strong wind working in concert with the suction of the points, blowing in toward the points. On all three marks he only held the correct line after being re-called when he took a wrong line, then repeating the throw & send. On the last one he STILL swam straight for the end of the point, I let him get out on the point, sat him, and burned on a high two. Recall, rethrow, resend, and he really fought the wind and held the perfect line past the point to the bumper. I am LOATHE to do a lot of handling and/or recalling on marks but I don't know how else to get him to understand what I want. In retrospect I think I need to do a better job showing him where to go by throwing the first mark along the correct path but just off the point. It was too windy to do that yesterday, the bumper would have floated in to the point. This is all a philosophical debate in my head, I think it will take trial and error.

Today I trained by myself and set up three blinds where again the correct path was 8-10 feet past an obvious point. Three different blinds, all the same concept. The first blind, Bally headed straight for the point, one cast got him back on the right path and he followed it. The next blind he took the water a little fat and put himself farther away from the point, rather than handle into the point I let him carry it, and he lined it. Third blind was past the same point he got corrected on yesterday, but at a different angle. This time, I sent him, he initially was headed toward the end of the point, then put his shoulder into the wind and very obviously made an effort to go past the point!!!!! I don't see how that could have been an accident. I was amazed, and really excited  

I also set up three long land blinds, in the front field that was just mowed short and now has about a billion hay bales in it. Blinds were probably 150, 300, 150. Bally did a nice job, one whistling one of them, and probably 3-5 whistles for the others. 

Good to be back training!!!!


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## krazybronco2

sounds like you are getting some really good work in! and im a fan of running blinds before marks to show the dog what you want in a handling manner that when i a running a mark and do have to handle the possablility of getting into a handling battle becomes slimmer.


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## nolefan

thanks for the update Anney, I appreciate hearing how you work through problems. It's easy for me to assume that everything just falls right into place for people with experience training dogs. Glad to hear Bally is doing well.


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## K9-Design

We had a really nice session today. I am still trying to feel all of this out. We started with what I thought would be a relatively clear picture - swim past a small point - so I had the gunner move back up the shore a good amount. That was way over Bally's head. All of the factors were pushing him right (the point was on the right, the gunner was on the right, the wind was pushing right, and the shore faded away to the right where he needed to get in). He immediately jumped in too far right of the correct line which put him exactly on a path to the end of the point. I called him back. I had the gunner move in and repeat. Same outcome. I called back again. This time Kristin walked all the way in to the shore and made the comment that he was jumping in crooked and crossing in front of MY path to enter the water = totally wrong line. I had never even considered this before, but she was totally right. So now we shortened the mark way up, and threw the bumper so it landed in line with the point on the correct line. This time Bally jumped in straight and swam right to it. The next mark was in line with that but on the edge of the back shore; perfect. Then 10 yards up on the land, again a perfect line. WHEW OK I felt good about that and also felt like I am understanding more on what I need to teach him.
The next time we threw off another point, although it looked like a bigger mark, it was a square entry, we threw one even with the point, one angle back so he had to swim past the point, and he did both perfectly.

I hope what I am doing is right. I don't know what else to do except teach and repeat over and over. It was all attrition today and Bally had a great attitude. 

We are also working on angle entry lining drills, each day I set out a little pile with a white stake, and line Bally to it requiring perfect lines coming and going in and out of the water. Today was good, the one time he messed up it was because he went too wide. I moved up and simplified and got him to take the correct line.

SOOOOO MUCH TO DO
We are having fun. Weather is perfect. Slater is dying of jealousy.


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## MillionsofPeaches

awww slater!!! 
That is really interesting about Kristin's comment and the way you worked it out. That is my favorite part of this whole business!


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## K9-Design

Another really great session today. Started with a water mark about total distance 80 yards with again a point sticking out halfway. Had the gunner stand on the point and throw about 8 feet off the end of the point. Then threw angle back same line. Then gunner went to the far shore and threw on the shore again same line. Each time Bally was PERFECT passing the point. SOOOOOO happy. 
We also did a down-the-channel series of marks progressively longer and closer to shore. Bally's entry was perfect, he actually swam fat in the water, and I worked on getting him to turn away from the shore when he grabs the bumper. 
I did not do all of this with my other dogs. I was happy if they didn't obviously cheat, remembered where the bird was, and brought it back. Bally is a blank slate. I have all the time in the world to teach him everything. I feel like this is the fall semester and Bally is majoring in proper lines to marks. 
Shelby -- Kristin and I trained with your BFF today. He was really great and extremely helpful. He has, as he said, an "evolution" to the progression which is what I'm interested in. 
Beautiful weather too. Tomorrow dogs get bathed, we'll probably obedience train at the church, and then we have a breed/handling seminar this weekend in Daytona.


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## MillionsofPeaches

Aw the evolution!! I heard all about that evolution. When you start watching the apes turn into humans let me know how it's happening


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## K9-Design

We've trained the past few days. Bally is piecing this together. He only made one mistake the other day caving to the point, otherwise he's getting the hang of swimming past a point. We've started down-the-shore marks. For some reason Bally is catching on and hasn't made a mistake yet. Today our last (most difficult) one was about a 80 yard entry into the skinny end of a channel, swim down the channel to a mark angled back and landing on shore past the gunner on the left. Bally nailed the entry, actually swam fat, grabbed the bumper and turned around to his right to take more water on the way back! WOOOOHOOOOOO
We also have done channel blinds the past two days, everything fine.
Bally has so much to learn but he's doing really well. I also started no-no drill last night, over a box. Just had a little trouble on one of the last sends, but coming back. Had to simplify, then he got it. Meant to repeat the drill tonight but just ran out of gas. Was really hot today.


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## MillionsofPeaches

girl you are working him hard! He's doing great. I was very impressed with your boys, that's for sure!!


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## K9-Design

Wow, it's been a long time since an entry. Bally has had a lot of GREAT work especially in the water. He is now avoiding points and actively swimming around them. It is time to start judiciously putting him on and over points. 
He has done some cheater water marks with LONG land entries. Long land marks. Marking continuing to improve. Paying very close attention to approach of the line, focusing on gun, watch and track mark, focus on ground, send and go straight. I am starting to put together more difficult doubles and a few triples. 
For our yard work we're focusing on the following drills:

Simple lining drills w/ bumpers (angle and pyramid)
No-no drill (have done over the no no box and through trees/keyhole)
Lining drill on water
3-down-the-shore angle entry drill
back-cast-down-the-shore drill
KRD

Always something to work on.

Attached are a few diagrams from the past month's marks. I already posted them in the monthly training threads but now I can find them in one spot.


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## krazybronco2

i was just thinking yesterday on the way home from work what happened to this thread! glad it is back!!


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## K9-Design

Thought I'd check in. 
The middle two weekends of February I ran Bally as test dog for Master in our two local tests (MFGRC & JRC). All three series both tests. He "would have" passed and earned ribbons at both tests. His biggest issue being VERY NAUGHTY on the walkups!!!! He was not like this at all in Senior. 
My observations from these tests were, a grand majority of the Master dogs running were super cheaters. I couldn't believe it. We ran three triples in both tests. I very rarely do triples in fact Bally had never done a water triple until the week before the test. No problems. 
So I've entered him in our first master, Tallahassee in two weeks, even though I swore I would never enter Tallahassee again. We'll see how it goes!!

In the training department we have been focusing on strengthening marking concepts. Lots of walking singles and technical singles on water.

Several weeks ago we ran into a problem with Bally being super weird on long entry/big swim water marks. Not that we do a lot of these but I had one session that I couldn't even get him to look out, on a mark we've actually done before. I decided I need to focus on getting him running confident big, simple water marks. The next day we went out I chose a very straightforward mark, about a 80 yard entry and 100-120 yard swim. Bally looked off the mark after it was thrown, left my side slowly with ears pinned back, got about 20 yards out and spun! UGGGGGGG I brought him back, did heel-burn-heel routine on a 2 (that is, hold dog's tab, walk forward in heel position, three nicks low-2, three nicks medium-2, three nicks hi-2, rethrow, resend). On the second send he didn't look off, but left slowly and stopped and spun before he got to the water. Called back with "NO!!" repeated heel-burn-heel sequence but this time with 3s. I also had the gunner move up to the shore and pitch the bumper angle-in on the far shore so it landed with a splash. This time Bally went with no hiccups. 
The next training session we did another big water mark, different location but same thing, roughly 100 yard entry with roughly 100 yard swim. This time Bally was much more attentive on line, didn't look off, sent him, he got all the way to the water, spun and started to come back. Repeated heel-burn-heel on 3. Rethrew mark, he went and got it but took a bad path in the water and I had the gunner help him out to keep him on track. Totally lack of trying. 
Next session, same concept different locale, Bally was MUCH better attitude, looking out earnestly across the pond to his gunner, ears up, tail wagging, taking off at high speed. STILL he got all the way to the water and turned around and came back. Again heel-burn-heel routine on 3. Repeated throw, he did it perfect.
Next session, same concept different locale, again super attitude, and HE NAILED IT on the first try!!! NO hesitation, fast, big leap in the water!!!!! Good thing because I was ready with the collar set on 4. 
Today was the latest session and he again had great attitude and no issues on the retrieve at all. Mind over matter. We are going to continue to do one big water mark like this every opportunity we get, and eventually start adding factors like swimming past points and islands. The mental picture of swimming out to sea on a big piece of water AND a big land entry is very daunting and I'm glad Bally has responded so far to the corrections and is understanding what is expected of him.


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## K9-Design

Wow, very long time since an update. 
Bally did pass that first master test in Tallahassee. He failed the next one at Fall Line, but then went four-for-four during May & June to finish his MH 5-of-6 tests.
After we got back from our summer trip in early July, I took a big hiatus from any dedicated field training. Lots of traveling in August, September and October. Finally we're back home, no traveling plans, and the weather is perfect. Back to field training.
My goal is to run Bally in Quals in the next year. Nobody has written the book on how to do this with a show-bred golden! I have compiled a list of things I want to concentrate on, to avoid the trap of trying to do everything, which is impossible. My main goals are to TEACH with motivation and momentum, not overface, but yet be willing to correct for lack of effort. If he can't come back after a correction for not trying, then this isn't a game he needs to play. My goal is to keep it simple. If Bally THINKS he can do it, then he CAN do it.
Another biggie is to get more consistent with my cues and body language at the line to help the dog be correct.
My list of things to concentrate on is simple and short:

DRILLS
Obedience/Heeling
Bill Drill
Pyramid/Lining
Initial Line drill in water
back-cast-down-shore drill
5-handed casting
Pile work

MARKS
Singles off multiple guns in a setup formation
Long bird first
Walking singles
Hard memory bird run as single first : retired, interrupted double/triple, poison bird 
Shorter technical water marks
Longer simple water marks

BLINDS
Long simple land blinds
Long entries into water
Technical factors at a distance
Blinds separate from marks (*I want Bally to think MARKS when he sees white coats....and he has no problem running blinds off suction, so I think this will make things more clear for him)

Today we had a really nice training session by ourselves. I started by putting out a white stake with a pile of bumpers halfway down the long side of a channel coming off of Middle Pond. I first lined him to it from about 50 yards away from the other side of the channel (the channel is maybe 20 yards across so a short swim to cross to the other side of the channel). We then kept moving left and farther away with each send. Next was from the road, about 75-100 yards to the channel, then to the flat part where the road peters out, about 150 yards to the channel, then up on the dike next to the fence which is at least 200 yards from the channel. My whole goal is to get Bally comfortable with long land entries on water blinds. For the three longer sends I did have to handle but each one he finally took that last cast and launched into the water. On the last one I couldn't even see the stake anymore, much less the water in the channel or the dog once he got out there, but he came back wet with a bumper! We had fun 

Bally wants to introduce our new addition, "Brix"
http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=798043


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## hollyk

Anney,
Bill Drill?

I think I understand the rest of them.


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## K9-Design

Haha my training partner Bill has a little yard drill for focus and line manners. Hard to explain in writing. I'll make a little video maybe. It didn't have a name so Bill Drill was a no-brainer


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