# Help with 12 week old Puppy!



## Bobonzai (Sep 19, 2016)

Oh! And we just started Puppy classes last Sunday with her. Come January she'll be doing a 30 day private board and training program


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

Your pup shouldn't have access to the baby unless you're actually holding the baby or holding the pup. This will be even more important in the coming months as your pup becomes bigger and stronger. Pups and adolescent dogs don't have much impulse control. There's a real risk that the child will be injured through no fault of the dog: within a few weeks the pup is going to be a 60 lb bundle of canine energy. It's a lot of work to have a young dog and young children at the same time. My daughter was 5 years old when we got our first golden retriever pup, and they needed constant supervision, even at that age. 

I'm not a big fan of board-and-train programs because the dog learns what to do but the humans don't. When problems arise, it's usually because the human side of the equation doesn't know how to manage the dog in a particular situation. This is especially important in your case because you have two very young children and your dog training needs are specific. IMHO you night be better off spending your money on dog-and-human training, for example, by having the trainer come to your home and work individually with you.

Best of luck! I admire your courage! It sounds like you're off to a great start with the puppy program.


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## Bobonzai (Sep 19, 2016)

ceegee said:


> Your pup shouldn't have access to the baby unless you're actually holding the baby or holding the pup. This will be even more important in the coming months as your pup becomes bigger and stronger. Pups and adolescent dogs don't have much impulse control. There's a real risk that the child will be injured through no fault of the dog: within a few weeks the pup is going to be a 60 lb bundle of canine energy. It's a lot of work to have a young dog and young children at the same time. My daughter was 5 years old when we got our first golden retriever pup, and they needed constant supervision, even at that age.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of board-and-train programs because the dog learns what to do but the humans don't. When problems arise, it's usually because the human side of the equation doesn't know how to manage the dog in a particular situation. This is especially important in your case because you have two very young children and your dog training needs are specific. IMHO you night be better off spending your money on dog-and-human training, for example, by having the trainer come to your home and work individually with you.
> 
> Best of luck! I admire your courage! It sounds like you're off to a great start with the puppy program.


Okay, so maybe I'll gate the area where my daughter is off? That way Poppy can't access her without supervision? 

So the way this program works is we send her there, and then periodically we go to check in and work with her too. And then once the program is done, if there are ever reoccurring issues we pay a $7 fee to take her for the day and work with her with the help of a trainer! The trainer who does it has owned Golden's forever so I'm hopeful it'll be a good fit?


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## Bobonzai (Sep 19, 2016)

I'm a little concerned because she LOVES her. So I'm worried the damage has been done and training her out of messing with her is going to be so hard for her. But obviously we will do whatever we need to make sure everyone is happy long term!!!


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## Mayabear (Aug 26, 2015)

Bobonzai said:


> I'm a little concerned because she LOVES her. So I'm worried the damage has been done and training her out of messing with her is going to be so hard for her. But obviously we will do whatever we need to make sure everyone is happy long term!!!



That's an adorable picture. Unfortunately her way of showing love and affection can be dangerous for your 7 month old, so the only time she should be allowed to interact is on your terms, when you have the baby in your hands. 


It is tricky because you want them to bond, but the reality is puppies won't know their limits. We do not have children, and Maya is fond of kids. Now she is almost 2 years old and understands that she must be still (no jumping, pawing, mouthiness) before a child can interact with her. Even then I supervise her closely since children have a tendency to play doctor with dogs and examine every part of their face, mouth, ears etc.


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## Bobonzai (Sep 19, 2016)

Mayabear said:


> Bobonzai said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a little concerned because she LOVES her. So I'm worried the damage has been done and training her out of messing with her is going to be so hard for her. But obviously we will do whatever we need to make sure everyone is happy long term!!!
> ...


I'm definitely learning this more and more as she's getting bigger! She's still small but she's growing like a weed! In our puppy class there's a 10 month old Golden and that was definitely the wake up call when it comes to how big she's going to get!!


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## Piper_the_goldenpuppy (Aug 26, 2016)

You really don't want your puppy and baby to be alone on the floor together. Your baby should really only interact with your puppy if she's in your lap. Your puppy is a baby too--so its like expecting a 1 or 2 year old to have perfect impulse control and not be a normal toddler getting into everything. I also would do the same with the 2 year old. All interactions between very young children and puppies (not just baby puppies, but especially as they get older) should be closely supervised where you are right there and can intervene. Once your puppy gets bigger she will outweigh your kids and can accidentally knock them down or hurt them through no fault of her own. Young kids are hard on dogs too--they often will touch parts of a dog that a dog doesn't want to be touched (their nose, eyes, mouth), will yell right in a dogs year, and can squeeze fur too hard etc. Its really hard not to treat a fuzzy puppy like a teddy bear, but they are animals. You might not notice the dog is stressed out until its too late, and your puppy has become intolerant of children. If you search "dogs and children" in this forum, there are a few threads that might be helpful. Read up on dog body language so you can start to notice signs a dog is being stressed out around your kids. 

Additionally, its great that you are training your 2 year old as well as your dog, but you will find that you spend as much time training your children how to appropriately react and interact to the dog as much as your puppy. And you will find that a dog is less apt to listen to a 2 year old who says "no bite" than you, so you want to make sure they are always closely supervised. 

I'm not a fan of board and train programs. They often use methods I wouldn't to achieve fast results (electric collars, other forms of "correction, banging on crates to have dogs be quiet etc. Even the ones that say they only use "positive reinforcement," often treat their clients in a way I don't treat my dogs)." It also robs you of the opportunity to learn how to interact with your puppy. And your children. If this is your first puppy (I know you have mentioned you've had dogs before), this is really important, but its also incredibly important if its not your first puppy. All puppies are different in their needs and personality quirks. Working with your learning dog once a week during visits to the boarding and training facility is not enough time to learn this, and you could end up confusing your puppy a lot if you aren't doing things EXACTLY how they learned and treating him EXACTLY how she was treated there. So much of dog training is actually human training and human learning. 

Additionally, if you wait until your dog is 6 months old to really start intensive training, you are missing an early time period where its much easier to establish the same habits you dog will learn at a later age, and have more of an opportunity to learn bad habits in the mean time. You're missing out on the easiest time to establish these skills. A month of training isn't going to be enough to correct this, because your dog will be coming back into the same environment she came from, and pick up those habits again. 

Training facilities don't generally teach skills beyond traditional on and off leash behaviors. By 5-6 months old, my dogs have most of that down already. I think if you took the money you spent on a dog boarding/training program and had a trainer come by weekly, or even more frequently, you would have a better result at an earlier age. Having a trainer come into your home is really important, because there's a lot about the home environment for a trainer to observe and help you work through. Its more bang for your buck in my opinion. Dogs are generally on their best behavior when they are out of their house and around people who they haven't learned to manipulate yet (like, a boarding and training facility.) 

Good luck to you! She's a very cute pup!


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Use baby gates or a xpen to keep them seperated. My niece was three when we got Chloe. Unless we were closely supervising Chloe was behind a baby gate when she was over. We had to do this until Chloe was five or six months old. She still gets excited at 1.5 but she is pretty good now with her. Plus she is five now so she has learned skills to handle Chloe.


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## Bobonzai (Sep 19, 2016)

Just ordered a plastic play pen (that I'll use as a gate), to gate off our family room (which is where our baby plays) so there will be separation there! 

She's not our first puppy but she IS our first puppy while having kids so that's a whole other ball game! We've been working with our toddler with gentle pets, not pulling or tugging or sitting on her. When she bites he knows to say "ouch!" And then gives her one of her toys. It's a work in progress obviously! 

Training wise, so right now once a week we do a puppy class. That will last 6 weeks (we've done 1 so we have 5 more). That will get us to the end of November. December we're planning on just working on reinforcing the learned behaviors that we worked on during those 6 weeks of class (with the holidays we figured it would be hard to be consistently going to another class). Beginning of Jan-Feb we have her signed up to do the board and train. Our hope for that is that they would continue to reinforce behaviors we've established but more intensely. 

The cost for the 30 day board and train is $900. I haven't looked into private in home training, but if that's the route that will offer us (and her) the best outcome, I'll do that this week! Would you recommend doing the private in home training alongside the puppy class or waiting until puppy class is over?


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Chloe was our first golden around kids too. The grandkids weren't born until Jake was three. Even today when my niece is over if there is toys in the playroom out the gate is up. 

You will find it so much easier having the area gated off. Goldens do love people but that excitement can be a curse sometimes. Good luck. Your going to do just fine.

Personally I would cancel the board and train. Your going to miss out on crucial bonding time. You can do both in home and puppy class. The puppy class will be good for socialization. But defintly if you do both at same time.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

I agree whole heartedly about not doing board and train. No way I would EVER do this, I would have to be bedridden to even consider it. I would spend that money on in home private lessons. Start whenever it's convenient for your schedule. 

Discuss with the trainer about how she feels with you all doing a couple back to back weekly and then moving to every other week depending on how well you are doing with picking it up and also a big part of the component is if you have the self discipline to put the puppy on leash and practice for 5 or 10 minutes once or twice a day. Also to build practice into your daily routine by asking her for self restraint behavior when you feed her meals, learning to settle during certain times of day - first on leash and then later going to a mat. If you can make yourself practice with her every day you will be amazed at how quickly she will learn. If you are consistent with how you manage her, you will find she probably makes a lot of progress and I think you will like stretching the lessons out. You are most likely going to want input from the trainer and help during parts of her adolescence.


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## Bobonzai (Sep 19, 2016)

Just left a message for a private in home trainer  hoping to hear back soon! 

The plus side to having little kids and a puppy is that both my kids nap! So during nap time Poppy and I spend time working on commands and training! 

She has quiet time in her pen away from the kids 3-4 times a day (not for super long periods of time, typically 15-30 minutes) and she's done great with that  

It's definitely a learning process for all of us but I know in a few years all the hard work will pay off!


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Be consistent and you will find it getting better by the time your puppy hits a yearold. Also ask questions on the methods the in home trainer uses. You are not really the type of owner who needs a board and train program. Your already understanding and doing well. When we got Chloe is was new to us and had to learn with a toddler around a few days.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I would continue in additional training classes after you finish the puppy class, continue training is always the way to go. Have a trainer come into your home to help you with home environment things that the classes don't necessarily address.

Don't send her off to board and train. You would have no idea what they are doing to her, and lose a lot of bonding time with her. Just stay in training classes with her yourself, with input from a trainer in your home if you need it.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

I think you are already getting there, but just want to add my voice against the board and train. She might learn commands, but you don't know whether she will be learning by fear or punishment. And as others have said, YOU won't be learning. Especially with young kids, it's important for you all to learn how to interact with the pup - and the pup has to learn how to interact with you all. You've already gotten some really good advice. I hope you hear back from the private trainer soon.


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## Wolfeye (Sep 15, 2015)

I wholeheartedly agree with never leaving a baby unsupervised with a puppy. That said, I'm guilty of letting my beloved Fenris interact with my newborn son from a relatively early age - Fenris was almost a year old when my son was born, but still very much a puppy. At some point in time my son stepped on Fenris. Fenris moved out of the way quickly and my son fell down. Carpeted floor, nobody was hurt, BUT and it's a big but, Fenris NEVER forgot nor seemed to to ever forgive my son. He was always skittish around my son, even though my son was very careful around him. Another dog, maybe one less loving, might have bit my son. I was foolish for allowing such close interaction at that stage of their lives. In my case, I knew and trusted Fenris, and felt certain he would never bite. In his 10.5 years of life, he never bit, anyone. Even then, we did have a bizarre incident where he seemed to fail to recognize my wife and growled and snarled at her. Goldens are wonderful, kind, gentle and loving dogs -

But they ARE *dogs*. Not cute stuffed teddy bears. We sleep with them, eat with them, hug them and interact with them and often forget that they are quite lethal killing machines, if they decide to be. We accept the risks by taking them into our lives, and 99.99% of the time those risks are worth it. I wouldn't trade a single minute of my life with dogs. Be cautious with a sub-adult dog. They can be unpredictable, much like babies.


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## Bobonzai (Sep 19, 2016)

Private trainer got back to me! Our intitial consult will be November 4th! I'm excited. I think it's going to be so good!! 

She's such a sweetheart, she's just all puppy!


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## Bobonzai (Sep 19, 2016)

Thanks for the advice! I feel a lot better about this option and I think it'll be the best for her too.


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## Wolfeye (Sep 15, 2015)

ceegee said:


> ...When problems arise, it's usually because the human side of the equation doesn't know how to manage the dog in a particular situation.


This is SO true. My puppy is the fifth dog I've ever had, and only now, on dog 5, do I feel like I have a handle on interacting with and raising a puppy. You do it with love, but also a firm hand to set boundaries. You watch the puppy and anticipate. Gods, those last few words are SO critical. Anticipate. Do not expect to have time to react. Often you have a choice between two actions and only by knowing your dog, intimately, can you make the right choice. Sometimes it seems that luck plays to your hand, but is it luck when you know your dog well? 

I unfortunately do not have a fenced yard. We live in a quiet neighborhood with little traffic, so it isn't often any issue at all. Yesterday afternoon I was out with the puppy in the front yard, encouraging him to come inside. His recall isn't 100% - no puppy has 100% recall at 13 weeks of age - and he wanted to explore the yard just a bit longer. I walked towards him and he moved away, towards the street. Just then, our neighbor started to back out of her driveway. Puppy has never gone into the street and didn't this time, but I had several choices I could make - quickly advance and scoop the puppy up, yell at the puppy and try and use an angry voice to get him to come, or back off a little bit. I knew that the neighbors saw the puppy, so I decided to take that last option. I waited. As the car left, puppy simply sat down and watched it drive on by. Did I make the *right* choice, knowing my dog, or was I lucky? I feel like either of the first two options might have lead the puppy to run out into the street. I anticipated that he wouldn't run out there since he saw the car moving and was watching it, plus I knew that the driver saw the pup.

Of course, a better dog owner would install a fence and not have to worry about it. I never claimed to be perfect. 

So, to ceegee's excellent point, I seem to have managed the pup correctly in this situation. It was hard to do nothing. Sometimes the hard thing to do is also the right thing to do - like limiting dog-baby interaction until both are a bit bigger, even though they love each other.


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