# Tired of the Vet's bills



## kingman (Mar 24, 2009)

While l realize that a vet's office is a business and they need to make money but l'm coming to the conclusion that they are over testing and treating animals more then needed.

How many times has a vet said to you what a procedure will cost before they do it? I stopped that cold 6 months ago and l noticed that my bills have dropped.

They try and make you feel guilty but it's a money game for sure.

Now if my little girl had something real l would pay whatever it costs but
when you bring in a healthy dog and they want to run all kinds of tests because they feel it's needed get's me.

I just had to give my little girl 2 weeks of an antibiotic and then they have to run a test and then another test 2 weeks later and then another blood panel when she appears normal is not right.

I forgot to mention she is 11yrs old and in excellent health. 

When the vet can't find anything they start looking for something.

What is horrible and very sad is that l was at a party with 15 couples and 8 couples owned dogs and 6 of them stated that this was going to be their last dog because of all the vet bills.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I pay more for my own bills and tend to be pretty tired of those. 

My vet charges $45 just to see my dog.

My doctor charges $200 (as best as I can figure) just to see me. 

Which one of those is out of whack?  

My guy sees the vet once a year to get his shots. Anything above that is based on whether I feel it is necessary to have something checked out or if my dog is ill.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Im sorry your not having a good experience right now....

It doesnt have to be that way..... I do ask how much each procedure costs and have never been made to feel bad for asking. Budgets are reality.

It could be that your vet is making assumptions about how far you want to go to treat you senior girl. He may be gathering important baseline information that would be needed if she developes cancer etc and you wanted to aggressively treat with chemo etc.... However if your leaning to care and comfort...then some of those test might not be needed.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I think it varies by the vet. My vet tells me "what's available", then tells me what he suggests, then asks what I want to do.
Of course, he's been my vet for over 20 years, and knows by now pretty well how I will approach each situation with my dogs.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Yeah, it depends on the vet for sure. My vet is very much a "wait and see" type. She never ever pushes something on me, but at the same time she's good about sort of hinting at something she finds very important. I value the health of my dog. Therefore, unless I think I am getting totally screwed (which has only happened at the E-vet), I can't complain. Vets take care of my dog when I am unable to do so myself!


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Maybe you should look for a new vet (although with a senior dog, maybe not..). My vet is very honest, open, and up front about options and also gives me a high and low estimate cost break down before any treatments are done on my dogs. She is also more a "wait and see" type person for some things rather than just jump to the most expensive treatment option. The office visit is $45 just for the dog to be seen, which does kind of suck, but I believe that's pretty normal, if not on the low end, in comparison to others around the country.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

If I am going in for annual heartworm test, and shots, my vet gives a free exam ( or any vaccines, fecal test, etc.) If she does find something wrong, like an ear infection, then she charges an office visit. She says that she gives the free exam, to make it easier for the owners financially and because she thinks it is important to get to know the pet over the years, so that when a problem does happen she and the pet are familiar.

She has never recommended anything unnecessary, but then again my pets are young.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Finding a happy medium when it comes to vets can be a very difficult thing to do.
We've been to vets who treated our dogs like lab rats and wanted to run every test imaginable and perform unnecessary procedures. And we've been to vets who basically amounted to little more than drive-thru vaccine clinics -- the type who don't want to bother with you, even when you have a concern and want tests done.

In all honesty, I would prefer the former to the latter. I'd rather decline a test or procedure if I truly feel that it's unnecessary, than see a vet who just wants to get people in and out of there and is more likely to miss something. 

Fortunately, we've found sort of a happy medium. He leans toward the conservative, wait-and-see approach a little too much for my liking at times, since I tend to want definitive answers NOW. lol. But we're learning to strike a balance with each other.


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## AlanK (Jun 28, 2008)

I used to take all of my animals to the big city, 45 miles away, for all medical purposes. I was worried our small town vet was not up on all of the latest procedures and such. 

Several years ago when gasoline prices became an issue I started a relationship with a very caring country vet office with 3 vets who I have much respect for. All caring and want the best for my critters. They cover all tests they think are vital with me and never ever push for anything. My choice... with all of the pro's and cons laid out. They have cut my vet bills in half.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

To the OP, I hope you can find a veterinarian that can work with you within your budget and that you will be happy with for your dog's best interests. 

When I first read the first post in this thread I feared this would be a veterinarian bashing thread, which I would find objectionable on many levels. I'm glad other posters are giving the OP some good ideas on finding a solution that may work, such as open communication and discussion of what you can and cannot afford.

I'll also add that when my dog Barkley had two serious emergencies we were seen by his vet within minutes of my call alerting them we were coming in. They saved his life...twice..and while the expenses were very high, we gladly paid them--you can't put a price tag on caring vets who will rearrange their schedule to help when you need it the most.


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## AnimalLuver (Oct 13, 2011)

I have to admit, I've felt completely screwed by some vets. Unfortunately the one who screwed me best (or worst I guess) was a relative of my boyfriends . Trooper had a bladder infection as a young pup, and we were seeing this vet at that time. She diagnosed him with a bladder infection, gave us antibiotics, and sent us on our way. Well Trooper kept getting these bladder infections, or so we thought. This went on for nearly 2 years, pee in his blood....rush to the vet, get him his antibiotics, he's cured for a short time....and all over again...FOR ALMOST 2 YEARS!!!! I thought, there is something wrong with this picture, how come he keeps getting these infections, and how come she charges us for her time EVERY TIME we see her (especially because she's family???) So I decided it was time for a second opinion.

Well guess what. The new vet told us that the antibiotics she was giving us was such a low dosage that it probably never killed the "original" bladder infection he had, so it wasn't actually reoccurring, it was just not cured....so my poor poor baby went through a lot of pain for a long time due to her giving him a "too low dosage"    ....also, 2yrs of unnecessary vet bills at least $100.00 a pop. 

I did some shopping around, talking with lots of people, and finally found a great vet that listens to my opinion and decisions, and doesn't over charge me to try to do anything unnecessary. 

This experience really opened my eyes, that I gotta do my own research and be as knowledgeable myself as possible, because you can't always trust who you want to sadly.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Vet*

I think the vet we go to is expensive, but we really shopped around and we have confidence in them. I don't think they try to take advantage of us and only recommend what is necessary.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I think my doctors tend to want to over test and treat more than my vets.
I don't suffer as much sticker shock with my doctors since I have insurance.
If I had had pet insurance with Copper, it would have made it much easier to have all his tests and procedures done.


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

I trust my vet, and I trust the clinics where he has referred us to when it was needed. Day to day care can be expensive, let alone the the illnesses you can't prepare for. But he gives me a break on certain things, and has always given me his honest opinion when I have wondered what to do next, and if we had reached the end of a difficult journey. In the last six months I have had to make some very tough decisions, and when I second guessed myself, he assured me I did the right thing. I hope he is my vet for a long time. My dogs and I appreciate him, his practice and everything they do for us.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

We all know where I stand on this. My job isn't to decide what someone can or cannot afford. My job is to present options. And the problem is clients are not consistent. I had an owner "force" me to radiograph her dog with kennel cough, even though I know what kennel cough looks like and really didn't want to bring the dog into the hospital. And then there was the client who saw her dog eat a ball of yarn, but couldn't afford an exploratory... then 1 week later, with her dog clearly in distress, gets money from her parents(she is my age) and we operate on the dog who ultimately dies from peritonitis. I tend to be conservative and rely on my experience. For example, if a dog comes in with diarrhea and is bouncing off the wall, I might treat it symptomatically. But, I had a colleague that would take the same dog, radiograph the abdomen, do bloodwork, give fluids, treat the clinical signs. None of that is wrong, but sometimes it is just not necessary. With the worry of lawsuits, malpractice, vet board complaints, the concern of missing a disease process in the patient, sometimes we have to practice defensive medicine.


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## GoldensGirl (Aug 2, 2010)

Our family veterinarian runs a small animal hospital for which he is the only full-time doctor. He has vet techs, an office manager, and visiting vets who do specialized procedures. He has been a God-send for all of the years that I've lived here, loving my dogs and helping me through the hard times. We also have visited an Emergency Vet Clinic, a veterinary ophthalmologist, a veterinary neurologist, a veterinary oncologist, a veterinary dentist (2, actually), and a very special referral center that provides an ICU and surgical care that's beyond what my family vet clinic can safely handle. The last of these is very, very expensive - and worth every penny. The others have given us more cost breaks than we have any reason to expect. One of the questions I ask them is "What would you do if this was _your_ X-year old Golden Retriever? Why?" And then I decide.

I'm not an expert, but I believe that becoming a veterinarian takes about as many years of education and training as being a physician. Their services aren't cheap, but that's partly my choice since I choose to fight for my dogs. Do I sometimes flinch at the bills? Well, yes. The last month has brought over $3K in vet bills and that's not easy to handle, especially in a year that has brought other veterinary battles. But they are battles I have chosen to fight out of love for my fur-people. 

With no regrets except for losing the battles when the time comes,
Lucy


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## jadellies (Sep 20, 2011)

Having just gone to the vet yesterday, and racking up a $300.00 bill I can say this: The $300.00 was well spent to make sure that our new, older Golden is healthy and up to date on her shots. They gave us an estimate for several upcoming procedures (spay and dental) as well as information on animal "insurance". The estimate can in between 550.00 and 650.00 depending on how things go. I know that we spent close to $5000.00 when Molly was less than a year old, including a spinal tap for her, just to be told they really didn't have any definitive answers, but they were willing to take a shot in the dark with medications. They worked and we had 5 1/2 more wonderful years with her and we never regretted spending the money. Our other two dogs - a lab and a hound - cost us around 200.00 a year for shots, routine check-up, etc.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Sally's Mom said:


> . With the worry of lawsuits, malpractice, vet board complaints, the concern of missing a disease process in the patient, sometimes we have to practice defensive medicine.


Unfortunately, this is driving a lot of veterinary and other professions to practice defensively, which raises costs. That's why I think it's important to find someone you trust and respect and work together towards what is in the dog's best interests. Then, if they are proposing a test or procedure you can be comfortable and ask things like how much, or if there is another alternative that fits in your budget.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

I think it is very dependent on the individual vet or clinic. 

I have never felt pressured to get a test for my dog. In fact, this past spring, my vet actually said, since your dog has been on heartworm prevention her whole life, she probably doesn't need the test this year before she starts her treatment (we only do 6 months here). I decided TO do the test - just to be safe. She always tells me all options, but ultimately, I make decisions. I ask a lot of questions - all of which they answer. If a test is being recommended, I want to know exactly why - so that I can make the best and most informed decision. 

And years ago, my former vet thought my dog had a very rare parasite. She had been having diarrhea, and he _thought _he saw it on the slide. But it's so rare, he wasn't sure, and he was going to re-test himself, and eventually wanted to send it out to the vet school. He needed to do multiple testing, and he didn't charge me at all for all the follow ups or labs. 

I appreciate my vet a lot (they've all been at this one clinic) - and I do believe they have my dog's best interest at heart. Otherwise, I would not be going there!


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

I don't think anyone can generalize about "vets" anymore than one can generalize about people in any other profession. 
As you are not pleased with the level of care or the prices your vet charges, it would make sense to look around for a new vet. Ask people you know who they use and what they think about the care and prices. Go online too as the vets in your area might be reviewed (the ones in my area have been).


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

GoldensGirl said:


> Our family veterinarian runs a small animal hospital for which he is the only full-time doctor. He has vet techs, an office manager, and visiting vets who do specialized procedures. He has been a God-send for all of the years that I've lived here, loving my dogs and helping me through the hard times. We also have visited an Emergency Vet Clinic, a veterinary ophthalmologist, a veterinary neurologist, a veterinary oncologist, a veterinary dentist (2, actually), and a very special referral center that provides an ICU and surgical care that's beyond what my family vet clinic can safely handle. The last of these is very, very expensive - and worth every penny. The others have given us more cost breaks than we have any reason to expect. One of the questions I ask them is "What would you do if this was _your_ X-year old Golden Retriever? Why?" And then I decide.
> 
> I'm not an expert, but I believe that becoming a veterinarian takes about as many years of education and training as being a physician. Their services aren't cheap, but that's partly my choice since I choose to fight for my dogs. Do I sometimes flinch at the bills? Well, yes. The last month has brought over $3K in vet bills and that's not easy to handle, especially in a year that has brought other veterinary battles. But they are battles I have chosen to fight out of love for my fur-people.
> 
> ...


I feel your pain Lucy on last month's vet bills. Ours was just under $3,500. Was it worth it? Without a hesitation! 

They also gave us an estimate of charges, with high and low figures, before we did the surgery. For us, we came in under the low figure, which was a very pleasant surprise. The cost of this surgery includes free rechecks and an on-call ophthalmologist for questions or concerns (24/7). Toby's getting more rechecks than they estimated just because his surgery was slightly more complicated than they anticipated. I had a ton of questions before the surgery and took up the time of a few vet techs as they researched things and discussed my questions with me. Then there are the follow up phone calls to check on Toby. That fee covers a lot of things that don't show up on the bill but cost the clinic time and money. So much goes into what veterinarians charge that we may not realize on first blush.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

My vet always gives an written estimate before doing any extra's that we werent there for. If its an emergency then he gives a verbal one. There prices are higher than other vets around here, but there office is within walking distance, they handle there own emergencies.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Another issue driving vet costs is the "schooling" it takes to get there. I am extremely fortunate that my MD dad had both the means and the "drive" to push his 2 daughters into professions so that we only had ourselves to rely on to support ourselves. My sister very fortunately was at Yale for an MD/PhD and subsidized at Yale for her education. However, I married a fellow student who was very in debt. My sister married a fellow student in the same program at Yale! We graduated 25 years ago!!! I think I read recently that the average vet student that graduates owes something like $275,000. Wow... I made $2000 less starting salary then my husband due to that "female" factor. My hairdresser's son in law was $500,000 in debt when he graduated from osteopathic school and residency. He makes armfuls of money as an ER doc in nowhere Maine... and they paid off $150,000 of his debt. Do I seem bitter?????


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

As I wait here at the eVets after crisscrosding my state to find a vet with power, frankly I don't care how much my bill is. I got to training and noticed a baseball lump under my Towhee's chin. Called the vet and drove straight there but they must have forwarded the call to another office. Start calling around and Ms Towhee is being looked at. As long as they find the problem, I will gratefully pay the bill.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Sharon - I hope it's nothing serious. All my best...


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

kingman said:


> While l realize that a vet's office is a business and they need to make money but l'm coming to the conclusion that they are over testing and treating animals more then needed.
> 
> How many times has a vet said to you what a procedure will cost before they do it? I stopped that cold 6 months ago and l noticed that my bills have dropped.
> 
> ...


I agree with you completely. I think many of these vets trade on people's concern for their beloved pets in order to take them for all they're worth (and beyond) financially.

And what's happening increasingly is, upper and upper middle class people continue to take their animals to vets, and lower class and a lot of the middle class are beginning to stop going to vets in everything except the gravest of emergencies -- because thanks to these veterinarians, they can't afford to do it. That's the net result of what greedy veterinarians are doing when they go down this route.

Vets either don't understand the financial situation a lot of people are in, or they don't care. Unfortunately, that's also the case with a lot of things in life.

I'd love to see a vet or a chain of veterinary clinics that would aggressively compete on price and advertise their prices upfront on their websites. Right now veterinarians seem to do whatever they can to avoid quoting you a price unless you corner them or their secretary, and even then one always finds extra things they added in at a huge markup when it comes time to check out and pay the bill.

I had such a horrifying experience at my vet this summer that left me in such bad shape financially that I called to tell them I was leaving their practice. Next summer, I'm planning to do what one of my siblings does with her dog- go to one of those low-cost pet clinics that do vaccines and can write you a script for heartworm preventative. It's a shame, I'd much rather to a vet who can do a physical exam, but the business is crooked, and can't afford to play their games. In an emergency, I guess I'd have to, but for a healthy animal? Not anymore.

People can give me crap and try to make me feel guilty over it, but they aren't living in my world or a lot of people's world, where money is tight and tough choices have to be made daily. The problem isn't people like you or I, the problem is the way veterinarians operate these days.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Oh, have I ever mentioned Towhee had a lot of coat? You need your hands on het to feel a bump that big she has so much. Hopefully it is just her salivatory (sp?) gland


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I love it when people go to a low cost clinic and then our practice has to treat the vaccine reaction.... when if the pet had come to us, the office visit would have been free, post vaccines. Just for the record, I do not trade on anyone's concerns . I never work to make anyone feel guilty. And remember, you and your vet both are trying to earn a living,,


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## SandyK (Mar 20, 2011)

Sunrise--I hope you find some answers for Towhee. Keep us updated!!

Golden999--I think you really need to find a new vet!! I feel very sorry for you that you have such a rotten outlook on vets. If you read through this post at all, you should see that maybe there is a problem with your vet. Yes, economy is bad and I don't think there is anyone on this form will consider themselves "rich". We all have bills and budgets to make. If you have any animals they are part of the bills and budgets!! I complain when one of us humans have to go to a doctor's office and pay that bill. I even worked in the medical field--it is much worse at what they can charge people. Please find yourself a new vet...I think you would see things differently. I wish my vet could treat humans...it would be cheaper and I trust her!!


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I feel that my relationship with our vet is a partnership, with both of us working for the good of our dogs. If you don't feel that is what you have, I'd suggest you look elsewhere. There are caring, reasonably priced vets out there. However, as said above, they have to earn a living, provide for their employees, overhead, etc. And..... I just had the goldens and our old aussie in today. The goldens had a bordatella shot (2), Syd had a CBC and full panel, and I got 3 months of Maggies thyroid med...... my bill was 159. I was very pleased. 

As for training, our MD son had 4 years of med school after college, a 3 year residency, and is now doing a 4 year fellowship. He'll be 34 bfore he goes into private practice or is an attending. His salary during residency and fellowship is modest to put it lightly.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Correct if I am wrong but aren't there low cost clinics like Banfield?


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Okay, Ms Towhee has salivatory 'stuff', white blood cells etc in addition to a lot of red, not pure blood fluid. Sorry for my non technical terms. They drained a lot of fluid and there is a lot more. They are sending samples for further analysis. They may need to lance it if the swelling increases and she is on 2 different antibiotics. I need to contact my regular vet when they regain power since she will probably need several more weeks of antibiotics and possible further treatment. No agility - a pity since she is entered in a golden only trial this weekend. But it doesn't paper to have lymph or bacterial aspects. If my vet does not regain power I can come back here since they are covering a lot of practices right now. 

BTW I always get estimates but consider it non negotiable. If they need care, they get it. That is my priority. Money well spent for the health & well being of my crew.

Edit to add: They are treating as a salivatory infection since there was saliva and white blood cells in the fluid. Apparently sometimes the duct can get blocked, inflamed or even punctured causing a big lump of infection; which they referred to as a mass (now that was scary !! ) Her temp was normal and her appetite was good -


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Sunrise said:


> Okay, Ms Towhee has salivatory 'stuff', white blood cells etc in addition to a lot of red, not pure blood fluid. Sorry for my non technical terms. They drained a lot of fluid and there is a lot more. They are sending samples for further analysis. They may need to lance it if the swelling increases and she is on 2 different antibiotics. I need to contact my regular vet when they regain power since she will probably need several more weeks of antibiotics and possible further treatment. No agility - a pity since she is entered in a golden only trial this weekend. But it doesn't paper to have lymph or bacterial aspects. If my vet does not regain power I can come back here since they are covering a lot of practices right now.
> 
> BTW I always get estimates but consider it non negotiable. If they need care, they get it. That is my priority. Money well spent for the health & well being of my crew.


Wow, I hope she's going to be OK--how scary....

I totally agree with you--money is well spent for the health and well being of my dogs.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Sally's Mom said:


> Correct if I am wrong but aren't there low cost clinics like Banfield?


I dont know if there low cost normally, but we had a adopter take her pup there because he was limping.(broken toe) and they came out 1900.00 later. They did all these test that this pup didnt need They came back the dog was anemic(Which was not true) to you name it. And then they try and get you to buy there insurance.


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## kingman (Mar 24, 2009)

*Glad l'm not alone!,,,*

Hi

Before l continue let me note a fact that every where else in this world most doctor's make a modest living. But here they become wealthy, so there is something wrong!

My brother travels all around the world because he is in the medical world and meets and spends time with doctors who can't believe how much money doctor's in the US make. 

When l had my first dog it was a different world going to My local Vet (40 yrs ago) he would check my dog out for 20 minutes and if there was nothing unusual he would just charge me the his basic rate. If a person came into his office and didn't have a lot of money he would just tell them to pay what they can afford period.

Today when you have to bring a dog into a animal hospital they demand One third on a credit card before they will even see your dog no matter what it's condition. This is a business they claim and they are right it has nothing to do with the love of an animal, it's a business.

I happen to be fortunate that l can afford medical care for my dog but to see an animal die or suffer because of $ kills me.

By the way l had pet insurance for 6 yrs until l realized that it was cheaper to just put the $35 a month away then tongive it to them.

If you have insurance inquire how much you get if cancer is involved!





But today they test for everything ($$$$$) Don't get me wrong l want my dog checked out but there are limits.


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## Adriennelane (Feb 13, 2008)

I trust my vet. He's always very honest and up front about costs and what is best for the girls. That said, my in-laws recently switched vets. It's something they should have done years ago. 

Their old vet cost an arm and a leg, had to bedside manner at all, always suggested all sorts of tests and medicines, but never really did anything to help. The last straw was this spring when he suggested this new flea and tick preventative for their cats. He told my mother in law that it was far better than using Frontline on them. It was obviously one he had had a partnership with.

Then suddenly, Soot, my MIL's older, sweet cat, got a tick on him. A few days later, he became very ill. His body was failing him from a tick-borne illness that is almost always deadly to a cat. The vet suggested some costly treatment that my MIL of course did. When that didn't work, he said that it wasn't likely to have worked, and also that Frontline rather than whatever they were using probably would have prevented the tick bite better.

Now Gibbs, my in-law's remaining pet and the spoiled child of their retirement years, goes to a nicer, cheaper, friendlier, and less shady vet.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I see no problem with doctors becoming wealthy for all the hours they work. My sister works at a hospital where like it or not, you work 12 hour shifts where they are exposed to illnesses and deal with frustrated and scared people. 

I think there are problems with hospitals and private practice doctors overcharging patients because they know insurance companies will cover. I'm sure in most cases these charges go to cover expenses rather than padding the wallets of people who work at those offices and hospitals. 



> When l had my first dog it was a different world going to My local Vet (40 yrs ago) he would check my dog out for 20 minutes and if there was nothing unusual he would just charge me the his basic rate. If a person came into his office and didn't have a lot of money he would just tell them to pay what they can afford period.


We used to have a vet who would not charge ANYTHING if somebody brought their dog in with a question and there was nothing wrong. This was just how he operated, and I think he wanted to encourage patients to bring questions in to him rather than griping about wasting money on nothing. 

This changed when he retired and handed the practice to younger vets who completely changed how everything was done. 



> Today when you have to bring a dog into a animal hospital they demand One third on a credit card before they will even see your dog no matter what it's condition. This is a business they claim and they are right it has nothing to do with the love of an animal, it's a business.


How much are you charged for an exam fee?



> But today they test for everything ($$$$$)


I go both ways on this. 

As long as they explain why they are testing, give me other options, or if it is a test I specifically request - I don't have a problem. 

There are two vets at the hospital where we regularly go that I do not like and make sure we are never scheduled with. Both are very young and have a hair trigger when it comes to testing. 

When we brought our cat in because of kennel cough last year, the one young vet correctly diagnosed it, but then suggested having xrays done too to check his lungs. :uhoh:

*** Our vet always gives us a written estimate for any treatment. And even if they didn't, we still ask for one.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

kingman said:


> Hi
> 
> Before l continue let me note a fact that every where else in this world most doctor's make a modest living. But here they become wealthy, so there is something wrong!
> 
> ...


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

And most doctors make more money than most vets.... for the same education and the same amount of money that goes into getting that education. Both of my parents are doctors, as is my sister... I know that my mother pays a lot of malpratice insurance as a pediatric oncologist. Malpractice insurance as a small animal vet is really nominal.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

And since my husband didn't want to spay Tiki (and I certainly wasn't going to), I took her to a specialist for her spay. I had to pay 1/2 of the estimate upfront(which was $900 for 1/2), I was somewhat taken aback as they have worked on my dogs before, but I also understand their policy.... Every month the clients who will be sent to collections pass by my desk... why should we perform servces and not get paid?


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

When we had Penny's torn acl diagnosed, it was by her regular vet. I consider her a 'primary care' vet just like my primary care physician. She can make diagnosis, do simple lab work, radiographs but for the more rare and complicated procedures and test she refers the patients to specialists.

She and I discussed the 2 types of procedures for ACL repair and she gave me a rough idea of the costs. We went to the specialist that I found through our first horse vet clinic. We were given an itemized estimate of the cost, including his rate for his labor doing the surgery. He said that cost could be higher or lower depending on how it went: some are simple and go faster than others that present more problems. He charged only for the time he spent with her.

I don't think it's fair to compare vet care/costs today with what was available 40 years ago. Veterinary science has advanced so far and is able to save so many more dogs, restoring them to healthy active lives. Many of the diseases and conditions that, today, can be cured or controlled were death sentences 40 years ago.

Penny's primary vet doesn't look rich to me.  And if her ACL surgeon is, I'm happy for him. Not only was he one of the original pioneers in perfecting TPLO surgery, he has restored over 55,000 dogs to useful, happy lives, many of whom went back to competing in agility and hunting trials.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

40 years ago, my pets only saw the vet to be neutered(except for the horses, who always had vet care). Penny's Mom is correct, times have changed. As an example, 25 years ago when I started in practice, most sick cats with fevers had feline leukemia virus. It has been years since I personally have seen a cat positive for feline leukemia. And this is all possible because people test their cats and vaccinate them... Veterinary medicine has changed since I was a child.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Sally's Mom said:


> Another issue driving vet costs is the "schooling" it takes to get there. I am extremely fortunate that my MD dad had both the means and the "drive" to push his 2 daughters into professions so that we only had ourselves to rely on to support ourselves. My sister very fortunately was at Yale for an MD/PhD and subsidized at Yale for her education. However, I married a fellow student who was very in debt. My sister married a fellow student in the same program at Yale! We graduated 25 years ago!!! I think I read recently that the average vet student that graduates owes something like $275,000. Wow... I made $2000 less starting salary then my husband due to that "female" factor. My hairdresser's son in law was $500,000 in debt when he graduated from osteopathic school and residency. He makes armfuls of money as an ER doc in nowhere Maine... and they paid off $150,000 of his debt. Do I seem bitter?????


$275,000?! Are you sure about that figure? My sister just graduated with around $120,000-150,000. Here is an article on average debt from 2008. She had little to no debt undergrad, but didn't work at all through grad school and did take some trips out of the country, too. I believe her starting job offers were for 50kish though. My understanding is that vets have the worst debt to income ratio of any profession. She is on residency so I am sure she is making even less than that. I do agree that vets financially have it rough. Even 120k debt is pretty bad when you can only expect to make roughly half that out of school.

As far as MDs I have heard pay is pretty poor for most general practitioners considering again debt:income:malpractice. This is why there is a shortage and PAs and NPs are becoming very popular and taking over the field of primary care.


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

I don't think it is right to place all the blame on your vet for running these tests. You do consent for them, right? Why not ask for an estimate next time? Vets are willing to do this and work with you if you are having financial problems.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Well, my husband was $80,000 in debt 25 years ago after graduating from vet school. The tuition at the time was roughly $20,000/year for four years, plus living expenses etc. Plus you needed a vehicle, etc.


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## Angelina (Aug 11, 2011)

I had a great (but expensive vet) for years to the point I knew taking the dog in for any reason would be a $300. bill. They have beautiful offices; top of the line equipment and really know their stuff. 

A friend of mine turned me on to another vet who has shabby (but clean) offices, has been in business for over 20 years and has wonderful reviews on YELP. I went and was so impressed. Getting two teeth pulled and covered on Angelina cost $1200., the other vet would be around $3000. I feel like I've been paying their 'overhead'.

I also take my dogs (and cats) to the shot clinics every year at Pet Express...this saves money. I know how to clean my dogs ears and I can tell if an infection is brewing (from the smell).

So shop around, check reviews and always get an estimate of your services before you approve them...


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Some veterinarians and staff will really try to help if money is an issue. Ask if they will price match a medication (go online and find a better price for the medication and bring a copy of it in), or if the medication can be filled for a better price at a human pharmacy, see if they will write you a prescription. We get all of Toby's eye medications and blood pressure medications at Sams Club for a lot cheaper than my vet can buy it for from the supplier. Ask your vet for generic medications to save money. Ask if there are other, less invasive or less expensive treatments. Many times there are--they may not be in favor because they take longer to see results, for example, but they may still be good alternatives for someone on a tight budget. If you are a senior yourself, check in your area for non profit groups with a mission to help senior citizens keep their pets. We have one here in the DFW area dedicated to helping seniors with these things.

If your dog needs injections, see the clinic will allow you to do them at home. You might need to pay for a nurse visit to learn how to do it properly, and most injections aren't that difficult (some may need to be done in a precise spot and I'd have a nurse do those). I gave my first Golden adequan injections and I'm giving my Toby cobalamin injections twice a month. He's survived too. It saves us a lot of time and we save a nurse visit fee doing it ourselves. Obviously vaccines should be done by a licensed veterinarian and should be followed up since there can be reactions. 

See if they can teach you how to do routine things like clean and flush ears to prevent infections, use over the counter medications for things like nausea, environmental allergies or skin issues. I cannot even begin to enumerate everything our dogs' vets or nurses have taught me over the years that I can now do myself and prevent the need to go to the vet in the first place. 

Owning a companion animal is a privilege, not a right. To paint all veterinarians with the same brush and label them money hungry isn't fair at all. Times are tough and unfortunately there is no law guaranteeing or regulating veterinary charges (if there are it is rare). It's a sad fact that not everyone can afford needed veterinary care for their animals and it's terrible when the loving owners and animals suffer--I just don't think it's fair to blame all veterinarians for charging what they do in our market based free economy. If what veterinarian A charges bothers enough of his/her clients, the clients are free to leave the practice and go to veterinarian B. If enough clients do this, Veterinarian A may have a "Netflix/Bank of America" moment and reduce charges or reverse course to stay in business. That's the nature of our economy. 

Many veterinarians quietly donate or discount their services for those in hardship or for animals in distress without a lot of fanfare or publicity and you do them a disservice when you paint them all as greedy.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

kingman said:


> Hi
> 
> Before l continue let me note a fact that every where else in this world most doctor's make a modest living. But here they become wealthy, so there is something wrong!


What does this have to do with high vet bills?




kingman said:


> When l had my first dog it was a different world going to My local Vet (40 yrs ago) he would check my dog out for 20 minutes and if there was nothing unusual he would just charge me the his basic rate.


If I bring my dog to the vet and she has a check up and is fine, I get charged the basic office call+exam. Nothing else. What else do you get charged?



kingman said:


> Today when you have to bring a dog into a animal hospital they demand One third on a credit card before they will even see your dog no matter what it's condition.


Not where I live.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Dallas Gold said:


> Owning a companion animal is a privilege, not a right.


I notice that most of the people who say things like "X is a privilege not a right" are not in the group they'd like to restrict from whatever "X" is. Class-ism, basically. Not saying anyone in particular here falls into that group, just that in very general terms, that's usually what it boils down to.



> I just don't think it's fair to blame all veterinarians for charging what they do in our market based free economy.


In general terms, I suppose I'm a capitalist, but I don't think capitalism is perfect (For one thing, I think it requires both strong regulation and a strong social safety net to protect the little guy in order to be anything approaching a just system), and I don't think maximizing profits is a sufficient justification for everything a business or a business person could possibly ever do. Even where companies may not have legal obligations to do more than that, the people involved still have ethical obligations, especially when you're talking about something involving medical care (whether for humans or animals).

Further, regardless of one's opinions on what ethical obligations companies (in this case veterinarians) may or may not have, shouldn't we all at least agree anyone has an absolute right to criticize them? They _may_ have a "right" to charge whatever they want and conduct business however they want, but in turn we have the right to say they're acting poorly if that's our opinion.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Golden999 said:


> I notice that most of the people who say things like "X is a privilege not a right" are not in the group they'd like to restrict from whatever "X" is. Class-ism, basically. Not saying anyone in particular here falls into that group, just that in very general terms, that's usually what it boils down to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you and I will need to agree to disagree for any discussions regarding anything.


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