# Fence requirements for adoptions?



## Megora

Bless you, I've wondered the same thing but could get no explanation from the local rescue (GRROM) other than it's coming from the fosters and they do not make exceptions. 

I think it gets catalogued in the same category as rescue groups that will not adopt to people with intact dogs, with no exceptions (even families who have glowing references from vet).


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## cubbysan

Different rescues unfortunately have different rules. I used to be very upset about these, because when I was in Massachusetts I did not qualify for a rescue based on the fence requirement and I had a child under 6. Now, I understand, that it is the bad owners of the world that have made it more difficult for the rest of us. These rescues have put so much time, money, sweat and emotion into these dogs that they want to find the best home possible. Unfortunately, having a fence or children over 6 do not necessarily mean this will be a better home and I think a lot of families get pushed into buying BYB or pet store because of how hard it is to rescue. 

I have seen the a few variations too:

1) Must have fenced in yard AND a pen inside the fenced in yard - because this rescue did not trust fenced in yards.

2) Some allow an invisible fence as enclosure

3) There was one border collie rescue I looked into, and there were certain dogs they would only adopt out if you HAD an invisible fence. They put their requirements based on the dog.


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## Jax's Mom

I find many rescues have strange rules they go by, some of which arent even disclosed upon reading their info. I do live in a house and I do have a fenced in yard, but I suppose the size of the yard is a problem...or I wonder what else it was that a local rescue felt we werent a good fit to have any of their dogs. I ended up looking for a rescue myself from down south and having him transported. I do realize, like you, that they are doing thier best to try to protect these dogs, but unfortunately, sometimes they disqualify perfectly good households and arent specific as to the reasons.


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## LifeOfRiley

cubbysan said:


> ... These rescues have put so much time, money, sweat and emotion into these dogs that they want to find the best home possible. Unfortunately, having a fence or children over 6 do not necessarily mean this will be a better home and I think a lot of families get pushed into buying BYB or pet store because of how hard it is to rescue.


Exactly. And that's what I don't understand. It seems like some (surely not all) of these rescues are defeating their own purpose. They conduct interviews and home visits anyway, so why not evaluate each potential home case-by-case? These blanket rules seem very counterproductive, to me. I know this particular rescue is always saying that they're in desperate need of donations and foster homes, yet their policies make it extremely difficult for their dogs to be placed in forever homes.

It almost seems like some of them are more into the politics of rescue than the practice of it. If that makes any sense?


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## Karen519

*LifeofRiley*

LifeofRiley

I don't think all rescues require a fenced backyard. When Ken and I adopted our Smooch, she was 16 months, from Golden Opportunies in Illinois, the lady came to our house-we were in a townhome at the time. The townhouse was fenced in the back-the common area, but I pointed out there was no fence around the sides, but that Smooch would not be outside without us having her on a leash at all times, which Ken and I did. They adopted Smooch to us. I would take she and Snobear out every morning in the back on leash.

Now that we have a home and a fence back yard, it sure is easier to just let them out the patio door and watch Smooch and Tonka while they are out there, but taking them out on a leash was well worth it.

Have you looked to adopt at the shelters or humane societies near you?
Check out Petfinder, too.
Here are 4 pages within 100 miles of Westlake, OH:
http://www.petfinder.com/pet-search...+Retriever&location=Westlake,+OH&distance=100


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## GinnyinPA

We were approved by two rescue groups despite the fact that our yard has an invisible fence rather than a physical one. It really depends on who you're working with. I think the fact that we are at home all day and do a lot of walking helped though. They knew our dog would get sufficient outdoor time.


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## Jo Ellen

I can imagine this fencing requirement is rather lax in Central Pennsylvania. I've never seen a more noticeble lack of fences anywhere else I've lived. It was the first thing I noticed when I moved here, driving in ... _where are the fences_


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## mylissyk

I know it's hard for people to understand the rules some rescues have. But please try to understand, they have those rules based on years of experience, and some of it really bad experiences. Terrible things have happened to dogs that resulted in rules intended to protect the dogs as much as possible. 

It's all about the dogs best interest, and absolutely not a judgement on any particular individual who applies to adopt.


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## Abby

When I was trying to adopt, pretty much all the groups had that rule, secure, fenced yard, at least 6 feet tall. I think it's because they want the dogs to have a safe, secure environment to run and play freely. I think it makes sense, though I don't get the age cut off, haven't run into that one. In fact, most of the breeders I talked to required fenced yards as well, mine did.


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## Megora

> In fact, most of the breeders I talked to required fenced yards as well, mine did.


Mine did too. Plus the breeders I talked with this summer hit on those same two areas (fencing, neutering/spaying history) during our interviews. The difference is they were willing to discuss those issues with me and mainly were airing their concerns. They would have come to visit and meet the family prior to deciding to place a puppy with us. Something that was absolutely fine with us, especially since we have a nice home with lots of space for dogs to run around safely... even without any fencing. 

When I approached a few rescues (including GRROM), I got the feeling that they were just not interested in me and my family or our home. They would not even consider talking to us. I got the idea that it would have been better if I were a totally newbie with a fence and no experience with dogs besides me yakking about how I loved Lassie and Shadow as a little girl or whatever.


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## Rob's GRs

Even though the rescue I am with does a case by case evaluation for whether fencing is needed or not I know other rescues do have a blanket policy about fencing for all dogs. As mentioned before it is hopefully provide that extra protection for a dog that may have already once in its life lost a home. Fencing is still no guarantee that nothing could happen to an adopted dog but for some rescuing it is one less thing that may prevent something bad happening to a dog.

I know myself before I got into a rescue I was not able to apply to another rescue for possible adoption because my fencing was 5ft high, not 6ft. I know these policies can be hard for some to accept but I believe the rescues are just doing this for the added security for the dogs.


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## LifeOfRiley

Karen519 said:


> I don't think all rescues require a fenced backyard. When Ken and I adopted our Smooch, she was 16 months, from Golden Opportunies in Illinois, the lady came to our house-we were in a townhome at the time. The townhouse was fenced in the back-the common area, but I pointed out there was no fence around the sides, but that Smooch would not be outside without us having her on a leash at all times, which Ken and I did. They adopted Smooch to us. I would take she and Snobear out every morning in the back on leash.
> 
> Have you looked to adopt at the shelters or humane societies near you?
> Check out Petfinder, too.
> Here are 4 pages within 100 miles of Westlake, OH:
> Pet Search Results: Adoptable Golden Retriever Dog Pets in North Olmsted, OH: Petfinder.


Oh, no... Thank you for checking that out, but we're not looking to adopt anytime soon. We couldn't, at this point, if we wanted to. Riley wouldn't have it. Maybe when he's a little older, and/or/if we can get him over his issues. But right now, it would be a total disaster.
It's good to know, though, that not all rescues require fences. Whenever we decide to think about it, our next dog will definitely be a rescue, so that's good to know.



mylissyk said:


> I know it's hard for people to understand the rules some rescues have. But please try to understand, they have those rules based on years of experience, and some of it really bad experiences. Terrible things have happened to dogs that resulted in rules intended to protect the dogs as much as possible.
> It's all about the dogs best interest, and absolutely not a judgement on any particular individual who applies to adopt.





Rob's GRs said:


> Even though the rescue I am with does a case by case evaluation for whether fencing is needed or not I know other rescues do have a blanket policy about fencing for all dogs. As mentioned before it is hopefully provide that extra protection for a dog that may have already once in its life lost a home. Fencing is still no guarantee that nothing could happen to an adopted dog but for some rescuing it is one less thing that may prevent something bad happening to a dog.


I understand that they want to be cautious, maybe even overly so. I imagine that rescuers have seen too much and have had their hearts broken too many times. And like I said, it's not a personal gripe - we're not looking to adopt right now, anyway. 
I just think it's sad that so many fantastic homes (both permanent and foster homes, really) would be automatically ruled out.


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## GinnyinPA

I think the thing with the age cut off is that if you're adopting an adult dog who isn't absolutely known to be used to children, there can be problems with the kids getting knocked down or bitten, especially the first few days when the dog is insecure. I know our Ben would have been a disaster in a family with children. I was willing to gamble that he'd calm down in a few weeks or months. If I'd had children, he'd have gone back the second time he bit me. Kids that aren't used to big dogs may shriek and run, which would make the situation worse. They may pull the dog's ears or try to play with him while he's eating, causing more problems. Rather than send a dog out to a family that will return it in a few days, they'd rather avoid the problem entirely.


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## LifeOfRiley

GinnyinPA said:


> I think the thing with the age cut off is that if you're adopting an adult dog who isn't absolutely known to be used to children, there can be problems with the kids getting knocked down or bitten, especially the first few days when the dog is insecure. I know our Ben would have been a disaster in a family with children. I was willing to gamble that he'd calm down in a few weeks or months. If I'd had children, he'd have gone back the second time he bit me. Kids that aren't used to big dogs may shriek and run, which would make the situation worse. They may pull the dog's ears or try to play with him while he's eating, causing more problems. Rather than send a dog out to a family that will return it in a few days, they'd rather avoid the problem entirely.


I can see taking the age of the dog into consideration when adopting to a family with kids. Definitely. And for many reasons. The factors you mentioned are valid, and then there's the flip side of that, too. The rescue Golden we met Saturday had been returned to GRIN twice because she was "too calm." She's 7 years old and had gone to families with kids. Well, apparently the kids didn't like her because she isn't very playful.


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## cubbysan

LifeOfRiley said:


> I can see taking the age of the dog into consideration when adopting to a family with kids. Definitely. And for many reasons. The factors you mentioned are valid, and then there's the flip side of that, too. The rescue Golden we met Saturday had been returned to GRIN twice because she was "too calm." She's 7 years old and had gone to families with kids. Well, apparently the kids didn't like her because she isn't very playful.


 
That is also a very big consideration when a rescue is matching a dog with a family. The reason why I found the golden retriever breed, was because my first choice of a breed, the great pyrenees would not play with the kids a way a golden would. I knew the golden would always be right by their side and ready for a game, where a great pyr is more cat-like and independent.


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## Blondie

I have heard so many people with frustrating experiences with the Yankee Golden Retriever Rescue out of Ma. All the rules, etc... Even my neighbor up the street who got a golden from a breeder and signed a contract for an above ground fence still doesn't have one. He said, "the fence police won't be coming to check on me." When I am ready for a rescue, I will check out other options than a rescue.


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## LifeOfRiley

cubbysan said:


> That is also a very big consideration when a rescue is matching a dog with a family. The reason why I found the golden retriever breed, was because my first choice of a breed, the great pyrenees would not play with the kids a way a golden would. I knew the golden would always be right by their side and ready for a game, where a great pyr is more cat-like and independent.


I love Pyrenees. I don't think I'd ever have one. (Too much dog for us, I'm afraid.) But I've always admired them.


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## cubbysan

LifeOfRiley said:


> I love Pyrenees. I don't think I'd ever have one. (Too much dog for us, I'm afraid.) But I've always admired them.


 
I have had two, one was my heart dog. I will have one again one day, but you definitely need a fence with them - I have an IF for Brady and Mackenzie but I would not trust a great pyrenees with an IF. They think their property is the whole neighborhood. They are definitely not a dog for everyone, but they do make awesome companions. They are more like babysitters and teddy bears with children than playmates.


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## LifeOfRiley

cubbysan said:


> I have had two, one was my heart dog. I will have one again one day, but you definitely need a fence with them - I have an IF for Brady and Mackenzie but I would not trust a great pyrenees with an IF. They think their property is the whole neighborhood. They are definitely not a dog for everyone, but they do make awesome companions. They are more like babysitters and teddy bears with children than playmates.


Is it true that they tend to be extremely protective? The breeder we bought Gunner from had two Pyrenees (both males) and she was telling us that both of them were more protective than her GSD. They seemed like big lovebugs to me, but I was thinking, 'Man, that's a lot of dog to control if he would decide to get protective.'


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## cubbysan

LifeOfRiley said:


> Is it true that they tend to be extremely protective? The breeder we bought Gunner from had two Pyrenees (both males) and she was telling us that both of them were more protective than her GSD. They seemed like big lovebugs to me, but I was thinking, 'Man, that's a lot of dog to control if he would decide to get protective.'


I had two GSD's and two Pyrs - I always felt safe . My goldens would sleep through anything.

The difference is that the Pyr's were bred to independently think rather than react. In France they are sent up in the mountains and during the winter to guard the sheep by themselves. 

I think the GSD's would react and did have fears. The Pyr's had no fears. A person that they would happily allow into the house during the day when we were awake, they would know not to allow into the house during the night. It is like they know when it is right or wrong. Most often you find them sleeping across the doorway of the house, protecting the house. Always very watchful of their herd (in my case it was my family and my cats ).

I never trusted my GSDs with strangers or non-dog people, especially those that were afraid. My pyrs I trusted with everybody. My pyrs were always the first to learn anything in puppy kindergarten, very mature puppies at a very young age, but after doing a command 3 or 4 times, they were finished and bored, and would be so stubborn that we would have to move onto something new. This is the reason why you very rarely see them in obedience rings and one NEVER wants to have one off leash.

Personally, if I had to walk down a dark alley by myself, I would take a pyr before a GSD.


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## LifeOfRiley

cubbysan said:


> I had two GSD's and two Pyrs - I always felt safe . My goldens would sleep through anything.
> 
> The difference is that the Pyr's were bred to independently think rather than react. In France they are sent up in the mountains and during the winter to guard the sheep by themselves.
> 
> I think the GSD's would react and did have fears. The Pyr's had no fears. A person that they would happily allow into the house during the day when we were awake, they would know not to allow into the house during the night. It is like they know when it is right or wrong. Most often you find them sleeping across the doorway of the house, protecting the house. Always very watchful of their herd (in my case it was my family and my cats ).
> 
> I never trusted my GSDs with strangers or non-dog people, especially those that were afraid. My pyrs I trusted with everybody. My pyrs were always the first to learn anything in puppy kindergarten, very mature puppies at a very young age, but after doing a command 3 or 4 times, they were finished and bored, and would be so stubborn that we would have to move onto something new. This is the reason why you very rarely see them in obedience rings and one NEVER wants to have one off leash.
> 
> Personally, if I had to walk down a dark alley by myself, I would take a pyr before a GSD.


That's really interesting. They sound like great dogs! I think I was right in basically crossing them off the list for us, though. I don't think I'd be the right owner for a Pyrenees -- definitely "too much dog" for me. I'm kind of a runt (5'2", maybe 110 pounds) so I don't think I'd fare too well with a huge dog that's independent, fearless and a little stubborn. That could get real interesting, real fast!


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## fostermom

Blondie said:


> I have heard so many people with frustrating experiences with the Yankee Golden Retriever Rescue out of Ma. All the rules, etc... Even my neighbor up the street who got a golden from a breeder and signed a contract for an above ground fence still doesn't have one. He said, "the fence police won't be coming to check on me." When I am ready for a rescue, I will check out other options than a rescue.


I think up there, it's a supply and demand issue. There are too many people who want to adopt and not enough goldens to go around. Therefore, the rescue can have more stringent requirements. When I was in Maine with my dogs a year ago, I can't tell you how many people were shocked that both of my goldens were rescues, and even more shocked that both of them came from shelters as puppies. That's pretty much unheard of up there.

Our rescue doesn't require a fenced yard. We also adopt dogs to families based on the individual dog's personality and how safe we feel about having them around children. But we do require some things that people don't like. All rescues do. We can't please everyone! In NC, we are almost overrun with goldens in shelters and owner surrenders. That's not normally an issue in the Northeast.

Whatever their rules are, there are reasons for them. It's not something that they just randomly come up with. And I can guarantee that in our rescue, the foster homes don't make the rules! Though we DO have final say so on who gets to adopt our fosters, which is how it should be.


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## LifeOfRiley

fostermom said:


> Our rescue doesn't require a fenced yard. We also adopt dogs to families based on the individual dog's personality and how safe we feel about having them around children. But we do require some things that people don't like. All rescues do. We can't please everyone! In NC, we are almost overrun with goldens in shelters and owner surrenders. That's not normally an issue in the Northeast.
> 
> Whatever their rules are, there are reasons for them. It's not something that they just randomly come up with. And I can guarantee that in our rescue, the foster homes don't make the rules! Though we DO have final say so on who gets to adopt our fosters, which is how it should be.


Oh, I'm sure they have reasons. I was just trying to understand them.
Maybe they figure that too many people, regardless of any good intentions or how much they say they'll get the dog out for a long walk everyday, won't stick to it. So a fenced back yard is better than nothing?? I don't know. You'd think that if that were the reason, they would just say as much. So I guess it probably is that they're concerned about the dogs getting loose and figure that a fenced back yard cuts the risk at least a little bit.

It's really good to know that not all rescues require a fenced yard, though. At least I know that a rescue wouldn't necessarily be out of the question when we're ready to think about it, someday.
Mom and I were talking about it, too, and both agreed that even if we could only be approved for an older dog, it might not be a bad thing at all. Neither one of us would mind that. Those homeless seniors really break our hearts and it might just be a good way to go for us. We're not getting any younger, either! lol.


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## mylissyk

LifeOfRiley said:


> Oh, I'm sure they have reasons. I was just trying to understand them.
> *Maybe they figure that too many people, regardless of any good intentions or how much they say they'll get the dog out for a long walk everyday, won't stick to it. So a fenced back yard is better than nothing?? * I don't know. You'd think that if that were the reason, they would just say as much. So I guess it probably is that they're concerned about the dogs getting loose and figure that a fenced back yard cuts the risk at least a little bit.
> 
> It's really good to know that not all rescues require a fenced yard, though. At least I know that a rescue wouldn't necessarily be out of the question when we're ready to think about it, someday.
> Mom and I were talking about it, too, and both agreed that even if we could only be approved for an older dog, it might not be a bad thing at all. Neither one of us would mind that. Those homeless seniors really break our hearts and it might just be a good way to go for us. We're not getting any younger, either! lol.


Actually, what we have learned the hard way is that people who don't have a fence will just shove the dog out the door without supervision and expect it to stay at the house. Way too many calls from animal control, they picked up the dog as a stray, the microchip is registered to the rescue so they called the rescue - or worse the adopters let us know the dog got hit by a car and died. 

Experience has taught us people can assure us and promise they will never let the dog out alone, it's either a lie or over time it gets too inconvenient, or they think the dog has learned to stay home, whatever. The dogs are safer in a fenced yard.

Again, that's not a judgment on any particular person/adopter.


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## LifeOfRiley

mylissyk said:


> Actually, what we have learned the hard way is that people who don't have a fence will just shove the dog out the door without supervision and expect it to stay at the house. Way too many calls from animal control, they picked up the dog as a stray, the microchip is registered to the rescue so they called the rescue - or worse the adopters let us know the dog got hit by a car and died.
> 
> Experience has taught us people can assure us and promise they will never let the dog out alone, it's either a lie or over time it gets too inconvenient, or they think the dog has learned to stay home, whatever. The dogs are safer in a fenced yard.
> 
> Again, that's not a judgment on any particular person/adopter.


People actually do that? Let the dog outside, with no fence, unsupervised? Good lord... our dogs were never outside unsupervised even when we HAD a fence! :doh:
Well, if that's what rescues have to deal with, I can understand. It kinda sucks that it ruins it for people like us, but so be it. Better to deny a handful of responsible adopters than approve one irresponsible one.


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## Megora

> Actually, what we have learned the hard way is that people who don't have a fence will just shove the dog out the door without supervision and expect it to stay at the house.


This is why I'm wondering why they don't talk to the vet or the neighbors. They do request references anyway, why couldn't this be something that is settled out by references as well?

If a family has owned dogs for over 20 years, and (except for 6 months with the first dog) has never left the dogs outside alone for any period of time, and this is something that can be confirmed by the neighbors and the vet... then why would you turn a home like that down in favor for a home where the people have never owned a dog? 

The other thing is that I live in an area where the majority of people have one or more rescue dogs. I think a majority of these people are great and I never see their dogs outside when the owners aren't. 

But that dog who attacked my golden this past summer was a rescue. His owners are brand new dog owners who have zero experience with dogs. They are also very young newlyweds. They had no problems adopting a dog. When he was too much for them, he became a 100% outdoor dog in their fenced in backyard. They used to bring him inside time and again and take him out for walks, but that's not happening now that she's had their first baby. So he's outside all the time, alone. And sometimes he breaks out of that fenced in yard and attacks neighborhood dogs. 

For myself, it might not be too huge a deal because I still am waffling between adopting our next dog or getting another golden puppy. But I hate the fact that good experienced owners are being turned down like that. It's not fair for the dogs who deserve good and solid homes.


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## Hali's Mom

LifeOfRiley said:


> I love Pyrenees. I don't think I'd ever have one. (Too much dog for us, I'm afraid.) But I've always admired them.


There is one breed that MUST have a fence. I love the pyrs but have no fence. 
So I transport them to their forever homes to get my "fix"


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## cubbysan

The two house on each side of me have rescues and let their dogs loose. We each have acreage, and are far from the street but our street is a very BUSY street. I get so nervous when I see them out. Luckily they often come to my house to visit my dogs, one of them often spends time indoors with us, so I at least know they are away from the street.

Both families otherwise take very good care of them, but I think they are just clueless with the risk they are taking. These dogs did not come from a breed rescue but a local shelter so not sure what the rules were. ( and if it matters, both families are highly educated - so they should know better ).


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## harrym

I'm glad that the shelter we got Lucy from didn't demand a fenced yard. We have a 10x14 chain link run on concrete for her, but she is seldom in it. We have a vacant lot next door where she can run a lot, but she comes when called. Until we knew she could be trusted off leash, we took her to a horse pasture at the edge of town every day for a run. Now we do a daily one-mile leash walk [doctor's orders for me] and several off leash exercise runs next door. [Daily clean-up.] We are both retired, so we have the time. We have considered a second dog but have been prevented a couple of times because of the fencing rule.


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## Karen519

*Lots of good comments*

Lots of good comments here and I can see both sides-the rescue needing rules to protect the dogs and the individual adopters.

As I stated in this thread we were approved to adopt Smooch by A Golden Ret. Rescue, even though we did not have a fenced in back yard. We were in a townhouse, Beth came to do an inspection and meet us and I explained about the no fence and that Smooch and Snboear would be taken out always on a leash. So there are many good, loving, caring, responsible and careful people out there that don't have a fenced yard-I'm sure LifeOfRiley and Ken and I would be included in that group.

For the past seven years, our home has a fence, and we never let Smooch and Tonka out there without us either being out there or watching them every minute out the window.


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## Blondie

When I took Maggie to obedience school, the trainer was telling us that lately there have been many more people in her classes that have dogs with IF. She went on to explain that many IFing owners are enabled by the fact that the mindset is that you can just let your dog outside unsupervised with the IF. On the contrary, she went on to explain that IF is for the owner to be outside with the dog to give supervision, for example while working in the yard or garden. Pro's and con's to everything.


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## Jo Ellen

I have an IF. Never a substitute for supervision, _never_. I always know where my dog is. I either go out with her or stand at the back porch and watch her until she comes back in. 

The only thing the IF gives me is a few more seconds to react but really, that's a lot. I know Daisy's body language, I know her temptations, I know when she's thinking about breaking the boundary and I have time to redirect her. 

Would rescue even give me a chance? Do they talk to neighbors perhaps? Or do they hear IF and automatically think irresponsible dog owner


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## cubbysan

Jo Ellen said:


> I have an IF. Never a substitute for supervision, _never_. I always know where my dog is. I either go out with her or stand at the back porch and watch her until she comes back in.
> 
> The only thing the IF gives me is a few more seconds to react but really, that's a lot. I know Daisy's body language, I know her temptations, I know when she's thinking about breaking the boundary and I have time to redirect her.
> 
> Would rescue even give me a chance? Do they talk to neighbors perhaps? Or do they hear IF and automatically think irresponsible dog owner


There are rescues are out there that allow IF - you just have to find them. They will list on their websites whether IF is allowed or not. When I filled out my applications and they asked if I had a fence I would put "Yes" and then under kind "IF". Dirk's Fund had no issues with me having an IF and the local shelter here had no issues either ( but they did not have any golden retreivers up for adoption when we were looking ). I did have to provide to Dirk's fund Brady's full vet records and have a home inspection. That proves responsibility. It is just so sad that some rescues go no farther than the application fence question of yes or no.

I have even seen some rescues whose foster families use IF, so the dog comes already trained once it is adopted.

My vet uses IF for her dogs too.


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## fostermom

Again, on the IF issue, it really depends on the rescue. We do allow IFs, but that doesn't mean the foster will adopt their dog to you if you have one. I have had some very, very timid fosters that I would never have adopted to someone who has an IF. But I also have had fosters who have come from homes that had IFs and I will consider a home that has one for those dogs since they have already been trained to one. Heck, my parents have to have an IF in their neighborhood and they adopted Luke from me. But I also had a LOT more input into his training on it. My two goldens would never go out of the house if they ever got zapped by an IF, so I wouldn't be able to have one.


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## Maggies mom

With Dirksfund it depends on the dog/pup. Some dogs or pups wouldnt do well on a IF, so those we wont adopt to a family who has the IF. I have a VERY VERY Ferrel puppy right now that in NO way shape or form would I adopt her out to someone with an IF fence. My other foster Tonka is going home tomorrow to a family with a IF. Again it depends on the dog /pup.


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## LifeOfRiley

Jo Ellen said:


> Would rescue even give me a chance? Do they talk to neighbors perhaps? Or do they hear IF and automatically think irresponsible dog owner


The rescue I was talking about would. I should have mentioned that they're okay with invisible fences. Their policy is, any Golden 6 years or younger requires a fence - either above-ground or invisible. No exceptions. Seven or older is more case-by-case.



Karen519 said:


> As I stated in this thread we were approved to adopt Smooch by A Golden Ret. Rescue, even though we did not have a fenced in back yard. We were in a townhouse, Beth came to do an inspection and meet us and I explained about the no fence and that Smooch and Snboear would be taken out always on a leash. So there are many good, loving, caring, responsible and careful people out there that don't have a fenced yard-I'm sure LifeOfRiley and Ken and I would be included in that group.


Oh gosh - we're so careful, we border on paranoid! There are protocols on top of protocols for opening doors in this house. Riley isn't a door-dasher and will 'stay', but why chance it? It only takes once. We make sure that he never has the opportunity to slip out a door. And he's _never_ off-leash outside here. Too many temptations and too many hazards.


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## sweetness

A fenced yard really means nothing for a dog's living environment, and all-too-often can be detrimental to their quality of life. Too many dogs only exposure to the outside world is their backyard; a six-foot privacy fence and parents who think a Golden is content to "go play" is a bad situation. After a while, a pup is gonna consider that yard to be his boring old "fishbowl". 

I have a fenced yard, but Walter spends very little time out there. He goes for walks, and gets to go on trips to the dog park. My neighborhood is riddled with incessantly barking dogs who are SO BORED being cooped up in their backyard. When we are out for a walk, and the local pups are barking their heads off at Walter, I tell him "ignore them, they're jealous". He never barks back.


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## CarolinaCasey

I volunteer for the rescue in question. This is a common source of discussion and questions with us volunteers and the potential adopters. We consider Invisible Fence brand because it requires a training session. Anything purchased by yourself at the pet store, ETC is not valid. I think you should call or email the rescue and discuss your options. We're desperate for adopters and foster homes right now.


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## LifeOfRiley

sweetness said:


> A fenced yard really means nothing for a dog's living environment, and all-too-often can be detrimental to their quality of life. Too many dogs only exposure to the outside world is their backyard; a six-foot privacy fence and parents who think a Golden is content to "go play" is a bad situation. After a while, a pup is gonna consider that yard to be his boring old "fishbowl".


Yeah, I've always sort of looked at it the same way. A fenced back yard can be a great convenience and an added layer of security. But it can also result in laziness on the part of the owner and can provide a _false_ sense of security. Like I said before, a fenced back yard isn't going to stop a dog from dashing out the front door. It's not going to help when someone is careless and the gate gets left open. So I really don't understand the thinking. I thought, there for a while, that I was starting to get the logic behind it, but the more I think about it, I just can't. It makes no sense to me.



CarolinaCasey said:


> I volunteer for the rescue in question. This is a common source of discussion and questions with us volunteers and the potential adopters. We consider Invisible Fence brand because it requires a training session. Anything purchased by yourself at the pet store, ETC is not valid. I think you should call or email the rescue and discuss your options. We're desperate for adopters and foster homes right now.


Wouldn't work for us. We don't have a fence at all, invisible or otherwise. 
And this is exactly what stuck in my craw with this rescue. We were chatting with them and hearing about how they're so overwhelmed and so desperate right now. We told them that we just aren't ready to adopt right now, but would like to eventually. They wanted us to look at their binder, with all the photos of their available dogs. Then the minute we asked about the fence requirement, their attitude changed. We got what basically amounted to 'Well, unless you want to adopt a senior, you can pretty much forget it.' 
We wouldn't rule out the idea of adopting a senior, when we're ready. But based on that, we've ruled out adopting from that particular rescue.


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## Karen519

*LifeofRiley*

LifeOfRiley

Are you anywhere near Stark County Dog Pound in Canton, Ohio?
I am sure they would love to have a foster. You can also adopt from there.
I know two women associated with this shelter if you would like their email addresses.

Stark County Dog Warden Department


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## LifeOfRiley

Karen519 said:


> LifeOfRiley
> 
> Are you anywhere near Stark County Dog Pound in Canton, Ohio?
> I am sure they would love to have a foster. You can also adopt from there.
> I know two women associated with this shelter if you would like their email addresses.
> 
> Stark County Dog Warden Department


Thanks, Karen. We're not too far from Canton -- about an hour or so, I think.
I'll keep it in mind if we ever decide that we're ready to do it. It depends on Riley. If we ever get to a point where I think he'd accept and enjoy having a buddy, we'll rescue. But right now, I don't think it would be a wise decision.


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## cubbysan

CarolinaCasey said:


> I volunteer for the rescue in question. This is a common source of discussion and questions with us volunteers and the potential adopters. We consider Invisible Fence brand because it requires a training session. Anything purchased by yourself at the pet store, ETC is not valid. I think you should call or email the rescue and discuss your options. We're desperate for adopters and foster homes right now.


The brand does make a BIG difference. We have Dog Watch/ Pet stop brand, which was created by one of the original founders of Invisible Fence. It has the same type of training support.


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## RachelsGoldens

I think we should all remember that rescue's are run by volunteers. We don't get paid for this. We get rewarded by finding these dogs SAFE and loving homes, and if anything happens to the dog in a home that we placed it in, we carry that with us. Many people come and go throughout the years of in an organization and sometimes their policies change. My rescue is one of the few that does not require a fence. I'm not sure how I feel about that and it has been a hot topic the last few days. Just got an app from some people without a fence. They answered the question about how the dog would be handled outside if they did not have a fence. The answer was "On a leash until she learns not to run away". I have a dog I completely trust to be outside with me, without a leash, until she sees the neighbor across the street and wants to go say hi and then there is no stopping her from running across the street. There is always something that could cause a dog to leave its yard no matter how well trained. Everyone else in the group thinks they deserve a call and a home visit. Hopefully that will clear the air. They are also 24, not married and living in a townhouse for only 7 months and I think only one of them has a job. What happens when they decide to split up and have to move into seperate homes and cannot take the dog? Not saying that is a guarantee to happen, but seen it many times. Then the dog has to come back to the rescue, we have to find it another new home and obviously the dog has already been through enough being in rescue in the first place. I'm not saying they won't get a dog from us, these are just my initial thoughts from reading the application. A home visit may prove me wrong. I hope it does.

Personally, I will always have a fenced area for my dogs. I don't even trust invisible fence for my dogs. A fence does not automatically approve a home either. What is true, is that we don't know a lot about most of the dogs that come through our rescue and a fence just helps with peace of mind that the dog will be safe when let outside. Doesn't mean that it is sufficient excercise for the dogs, it just helps me feel safe that when the phone rings and you go inside to answer it the dog can't wander into the street and get hit. Yes, that actually happened to someone who adopted a dog from us. She loved that dog very much. Was out in the front yard with the dog, the phone rang, she went inside to answer it and left the dog outside thinking she'd be okay for a minute. Now the dog is dead and she is devistated. 

Bottom line, each rescue has its own rules based on its experiences and most people don't understand unless they've been through it. So don't take it personally. These people are just doing the best they can with what they have.


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## Jo Ellen

I have an invisible fence. I trust it with Daisy, I trust Daisy ... but she's 10 years old. And I don't leave her outside alone ever. If we're outside and the phone rings, I don't answer it. 

I have to say it's taken years to develop this level of trust with Daisy. Sure, anything can happen and accidents surely do happen ... but I really do think I minimize the chances as much as humanly possible.

It would be an entirely different story with a new dog, or a younger dog. Lots of training, lots of observation, getting to know a new dog's personality (what are the triggers) ... kinda wears me out just thinking about it : I'm so comfortable with my old girl :heartbeat


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## LifeOfRiley

RachelsGoldens said:


> My rescue is one of the few that does not require a fence. I'm not sure how I feel about that and it has been a hot topic the last few days. Just got an app from some people without a fence. They answered the question about how the dog would be handled outside if they did not have a fence. The answer was "On a leash until she learns not to run away". I have a dog I completely trust to be outside with me, without a leash, until she sees the neighbor across the street and wants to go say hi and then there is no stopping her from running across the street. There is always something that could cause a dog to leave its yard no matter how well trained. Everyone else in the group thinks they deserve a call and a home visit. Hopefully that will clear the air. They are also 24, not married and living in a townhouse for only 7 months and I think only one of them has a job. What happens when they decide to split up and have to move into seperate homes and cannot take the dog? Not saying that is a guarantee to happen, but seen it many times.
> 
> Bottom line, each rescue has its own rules based on its experiences and most people don't understand unless they've been through it. So don't take it personally. These people are just doing the best they can with what they have.


:doh: Seriously? Your rescue volunteers are more openminded than I am. Honestly, I would turn that couple down. Maybe I would give them the benefit of a home visit, but it would take an awful lot to change my mind, based on their application.

And no, I wouldn't take it personally. _I_ know that we provide a better home (or at the very least, every bit as good) as anyone who would get approved because they have a fenced yard. But the rescue volunteers don't know that. They don't know us. I realize they're making decisions based on a relatively quick evaluation. That's all they can do.
We'd even talked about volunteering for a local rescue. It seems like it might be a win/win. They need the help and it would give them an opportunity to get to know us, at the same time.


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## mylissyk

LifeOfRiley said:


> :doh: Seriously? Your rescue volunteers are more openminded than I am. Honestly, I would turn that couple down. Maybe I would give them the benefit of a home visit, but it would take an awful lot to change my mind, based on their application.
> 
> And no, I wouldn't take it personally. _I_ know that we provide a better home (or at the very least, every bit as good) as anyone who would get approved because they have a fenced yard. But the rescue volunteers don't know that. They don't know us. I realize they're making decisions based on a relatively quick evaluation. That's all they can do.
> We'd even talked about volunteering for a local rescue. It seems like it might be a win/win. They need the help and it would give them an opportunity to get to know us, at the same time.


Volunteering for rescue, even if you are not fostering, is a great idea. You will get to know first hand what the volunteers deal with trying to choose good homes. Like you said, they don't know you (or the anyone applying to adopt), and have to make decisions on the information they can gather, and their experience and instincts when meeting people.

Volunteer, you will learn a lot.


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## BeauShel

Everyone has been discussing fences but I have also heard alot of people not happy that they cant adopt from rescues because they have children. And they dont understand it because they are goldens. Everyone knows that goldens are the best dogs just like the dogs from the movies. RIGHT? WRONG? Alot of these dogs come from a shelter or a from a home where we dont know what kind of treatment they received. Sure the people say they loved them and cant take care of them because of the economy. 
But then when the dog comes into the foster home, we see the dog cowering when a hand is raised. Or a a dog growling at a child in that same foster home when we were told they were great with kids. So there goes that story of a great dog with kids. And if we had adopted him out to a family and the dog had bitten the child, it could have cost the rescue everything including their entire future. The dog more than likely would have to be put down and the rescue would be sued. 

The same can be with fences. My CoCo was a perfect example. I was told he doesnt like to run, will just lay around and stays close to you at all times. One day I was coming in the garage door into the house. The garage door was almost close and I was almost inside the door in the house and CoCo pushed past me and slide under the garage door. It hit him on the back and out the door he was running for the hills. So much for the couch potato with the bad leg. I chased him down the road for five houses and cornered him in someones back yard. So even the best dogs can do what they were said they wouldnt do.

So please dont take it the wrong way when the rescue has rules that you may disagree with, it is not to deny you, it is because of the dogs. We are here to protect the dogs because they cant protect themselves. We have been lied to over and over. By potential adopters, people turning dogs in, even people that have adopted dogs. We are a non-profit volunteer group and we have to follow certain rules set up by a volunteer board of directors. Most of the people on the board have been in rescue and are basing the rules on their past experiences. 

In the 2 years that I have been fostering, the stories I have heard from people just shock and surprise me. The last person that looked at adopting CoCo was perfect on paper, references checked out and his own words at the end got him denied. "We are lucky that he is willing to take a dog off our hands." So we denied him. That attitude just turned our stomach. Made us feel like he wasnt going to be loved for some reason. We do check references, talk to the vets and as far as I know most of the rescues do that also. So if they didnt do that please ask them why. 

Some of us in rescue dont like some of the rules and we do try to work with the rescues to try to get them to change or modify them. Hopefully if you get involved with your rescues you can help them too. 

Megora, If you see a dog adopted thru a rescue and it is not being treated the way it should be according to the rescue's rules. Please contact them. You are saving that dog's life. That dog deserves to go back to the rescue.


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## CAROLINA MOM

So very well said Beaushel-just when you think you've seen it or heard it all, there's always something else that comes along that totally shocks you.


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## RachelsGoldens

BeauShel said:


> Everyone has been discussing fences but I have also heard alot of people not happy that they cant adopt from rescues because they have children. And they dont understand it because they are goldens. Everyone knows that goldens are the best dogs just like the dogs from the movies. RIGHT? WRONG? Alot of these dogs come from a shelter or a from a home where we dont know what kind of treatment they received. Sure the people say they loved them and cant take care of them because of the economy.
> But then when the dog comes into the foster home, we see the dog cowering when a hand is raised. Or a a dog growling at a child in that same foster home when we were told they were great with kids. So there goes that story of a great dog with kids. And if we had adopted him out to a family and the dog had bitten the child, it could have cost the rescue everything including their entire future. The dog more than likely would have to be put down and the rescue would be sued.
> 
> The same can be with fences. My CoCo was a perfect example. I was told he doesnt like to run, will just lay around and stays close to you at all times. One day I was coming in the garage door into the house. The garage door was almost close and I was almost inside the door in the house and CoCo pushed past me and slide under the garage door. It hit him on the back and out the door he was running for the hills. So much for the couch potato with the bad leg. I chased him down the road for five houses and cornered him in someones back yard. So even the best dogs can do what they were said they wouldnt do.
> 
> So please dont take it the wrong way when the rescue has rules that you may disagree with, it is not to deny you, it is because of the dogs. We are here to protect the dogs because they cant protect themselves. We have been lied to over and over. By potential adopters, people turning dogs in, even people that have adopted dogs. We are a non-profit volunteer group and we have to follow certain rules set up by a volunteer board of directors. Most of the people on the board have been in rescue and are basing the rules on their past experiences.
> 
> In the 2 years that I have been fostering, the stories I have heard from people just shock and surprise me. The last person that looked at adopting CoCo was perfect on paper, references checked out and his own words at the end got him denied. "We are lucky that he is willing to take a dog off our hands." So we denied him. That attitude just turned our stomach. Made us feel like he wasnt going to be loved for some reason. We do check references, talk to the vets and as far as I know most of the rescues do that also. So if they didnt do that please ask them why.
> 
> Some of us in rescue dont like some of the rules and we do try to work with the rescues to try to get them to change or modify them. Hopefully if you get involved with your rescues you can help them too.
> 
> Megora, If you see a dog adopted thru a rescue and it is not being treated the way it should be according to the rescue's rules. Please contact them. You are saving that dog's life. That dog deserves to go back to the rescue.


 
Well said! To be honest, I don't really like the idea of adopting to families with small chidren. For that very reason, we don't know a lot about the dog. The when the child gets bit, the dog suffers even though most of the time nobody saw what happened or why the kid got bit. Not to say that I haven't placed a dog in a home with small children, but it has been with much thought and it has to be a certain dog.


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## Megora

> Megora, If you see a dog adopted thru a rescue and it is not being treated the way it should be according to the rescue's rules. Please contact them. You are saving that dog's life. That dog deserves to go back to the rescue.


Certainly, but sometimes this is easier said than done. 

If I turned in every rescue dog I see kept outside and isolated from the family (because that is what people think fenced in yards are for), there would not be enough money or room to house these animals. 

The good or bad thing (depends on how you look at it) I need to point out since last month when I mentioned this family, is the neighbors have talked to this young couple and basically threatened to call animal protective services if they do not give this dog more shelter from the cold. So the dog is now in the garage 80% of the time. 

Again, people keep their dogs outside or in the garage and even some rescues don't feel that is a undesirable thing. But God forbid you have an well-trained and docile intact dog in your home. If you have an intact dog, that means you are automatically contributing to the animal population and _are a very bad owner_. -.-


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## BeauShel

But if you know the rescue that the dog came from they will come and take the dog away. Because in almost every agreement the people sign with the rescue it states the dog has to be kept in the house. And if it is notbeing kept in the house, it is grounds for the rescue to take the dog away. And the rescue will do it. We have done it in the past. That is one reason we are so strict. It is because of people like that, that lied to the rescue. Not trying to discount the people but they may have had the best of references, and the dog may have been really great in the foster home but once in the home not kept up with training, dumped in the yard, turned into a wild dog that attacked and suffering.


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## Jean_NJ

Yeah I understand why they do it but I agree, they are losing out to some great homes. My friend wanted to adopt a dog it was a golden retriever, and because he didn't have a fence on his 5 acres, they rejected him. They found another dog somewhere else and she has the life of Riley as they say.


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## LifeOfRiley

BeauShel said:


> Everyone has been discussing fences but I have also heard alot of people not happy that they cant adopt from rescues because they have children. And they dont understand it because they are goldens. Everyone knows that goldens are the best dogs just like the dogs from the movies. RIGHT? WRONG? Alot of these dogs come from a shelter or a from a home where we dont know what kind of treatment they received. Sure the people say they loved them and cant take care of them because of the economy.
> But then when the dog comes into the foster home, we see the dog cowering when a hand is raised. Or a a dog growling at a child in that same foster home when we were told they were great with kids. So there goes that story of a great dog with kids. And if we had adopted him out to a family and the dog had bitten the child, it could have cost the rescue everything including their entire future. The dog more than likely would have to be put down and the rescue would be sued.
> 
> The same can be with fences. My CoCo was a perfect example. I was told he doesnt like to run, will just lay around and stays close to you at all times. One day I was coming in the garage door into the house. The garage door was almost close and I was almost inside the door in the house and CoCo pushed past me and slide under the garage door. It hit him on the back and out the door he was running for the hills. So much for the couch potato with the bad leg. I chased him down the road for five houses and cornered him in someones back yard. So even the best dogs can do what they were said they wouldnt do.
> 
> So please dont take it the wrong way when the rescue has rules that you may disagree with, it is not to deny you, it is because of the dogs. We are here to protect the dogs because they cant protect themselves. We have been lied to over and over. By potential adopters, people turning dogs in, even people that have adopted dogs. We are a non-profit volunteer group and we have to follow certain rules set up by a volunteer board of directors. Most of the people on the board have been in rescue and are basing the rules on their past experiences.
> 
> In the 2 years that I have been fostering, the stories I have heard from people just shock and surprise me. The last person that looked at adopting CoCo was perfect on paper, references checked out and his own words at the end got him denied. "We are lucky that he is willing to take a dog off our hands." So we denied him. That attitude just turned our stomach. Made us feel like he wasnt going to be loved for some reason. We do check references, talk to the vets and as far as I know most of the rescues do that also. So if they didnt do that please ask them why.
> 
> Some of us in rescue dont like some of the rules and we do try to work with the rescues to try to get them to change or modify them. Hopefully if you get involved with your rescues you can help them too.
> 
> Megora, If you see a dog adopted thru a rescue and it is not being treated the way it should be according to the rescue's rules. Please contact them. You are saving that dog's life. That dog deserves to go back to the rescue.


Yikes! I'm sorry that happened with CoCo. I'm glad you were able to catch him before anything happened. But that had to have given you quite a scare!
That's really what I mean, though. A fenced back yard couldn't have prevented that. Sure, they're a nice bonus, but to reject people _only_ because they don't have a fenced yard still makes no sense to me. I know that they're probably basing policy on their own experience, but I think it's a shame that they undoubtedly pass up some really great homes based on that, alone.

And for what it's worth - I would have rejected that guy, too. What an attitude! HE would be lucky to welcome a dog into his life, not the other way around!

I wouldn't go into any rescue work with the attitude that 'I'm going to change things', but yeah - maybe we could make some kind of difference. I won't volunteer for the rescue I was initially posting about. I'd rather help a small rescue that's really struggling and really needs the help. We can't foster with Riley, but maybe we could help pull or transport, or something. Or whatever they would need us to do - I don't know.
Actually, I was thinking about helping a GSD rescue. We can't have another one. We're just not the right home for a GSD anymore, but god I miss those dogs!


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## RachelsGoldens

*A fence is not an automatic yes*

That is why my rescue doesn't automatically rule out an adopter because they don't have a fence. However, it has to be the right home for each dog. There are certain dogs I would not allow to go to a home without a fence because of their past history. These rescues have their rules because of what they have seen or gone through and I know that occasionally a good home is missed due to a lack of fence. But, does the person that has five acres just let the dog out to roam or is the dog accounted for? A person can always tell you one thing and then do another. Not saying this is the case with your friend, but with most other people it is the case. That's why a home visit is necessary. I just had a dog that could sail over a four foot fence, but does great with invisible fence, there is no way he could be trusted without either a six foot fence or invisible fence. I could not adopt him to a home without a fence with good conscience. 

A fence does not make a good home, it just helps because we all know at 2:30 am we don't want to be outside with the dog when its -5 degrees or raining, so we just let the dog out because we trust it and then forget or it runs off. There are many people that do have a fenced in yard that have not gotten a dog from us. I think people in this discussion are forgetting that. A fence is not an automatic yes, it just helps when you are talking about rescues because more than half are strays. 

Thanks for reading.


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## Megora

> But, does the person that has five acres just let the dog out to roam or is the dog accounted for?


And this is something that drives me nuts, as it seems I'm always looking after neighbors dogs, whether they are leaping fences or just left outside while the family goes off somewhere or the owner takes a shower... ! 

And even at 2AM outings there is such a thing as a tie out line. My current guy was a winter puppy and I spent a lot of time sitting in my nightie just inside the back door waiting for him to find a spot and poop. That's how responsible owners find a way around the lack of fence with a pet who is a flight risk. <- But I know neighbors who just let their untrained dogs out and assume they can bribe them back in with food. 

Some people are just plain airheaded when it comes to looking after their dogs, training their dogs, caring for their dogs... and it causes problems for the rest of us. 

So the fence rule isn't so much a problem as long as it isn't mandatory and "no exceptions" based. That's what I'm asking for from rescue groups. That they are open to working with people who have a history of dogs kept and raised safely. 

The only bit of flat land on our property where we could probably put a dog run or fenced enclosure would be out on our front lawn or way in the back yard. A distance away from the house, which means the dog would have to be walked a distance away from the house to be let loose. 

And invisible fencing is a no for me too since I know of too many cases where the dogs burst through the line and then refuse to come back home again. I know, because I've had to deal with stray neighborhood dogs who were terrified of their property line. And it doesn't work for some soft dogs. 

Sorry for being so bossy and obnoxious about this. It's not my intention and I absolutely appreciate all of the work that rescue groups do. God bless you guys.


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## RachelsGoldens

Megora said:


> And this is something that drives me nuts, as it seems I'm always looking after neighbors dogs, whether they are leaping fences or just left outside while the family goes off somewhere or the owner takes a shower... !
> 
> And even at 2AM outings there is such a thing as a tie out line. My current guy was a winter puppy and I spent a lot of time sitting in my nightie just inside the back door waiting for him to find a spot and poop. That's how responsible owners find a way around the lack of fence with a pet who is a flight risk. <- But I know neighbors who just let their untrained dogs out and assume they can bribe them back in with food.
> 
> Some people are just plain airheaded when it comes to looking after their dogs, training their dogs, caring for their dogs... and it causes problems for the rest of us.
> 
> So the fence rule isn't so much a problem as long as it isn't mandatory and "no exceptions" based. That's what I'm asking for from rescue groups. That they are open to working with people who have a history of dogs kept and raised safely.
> 
> The only bit of flat land on our property where we could probably put a dog run or fenced enclosure would be out on our front lawn or way in the back yard. A distance away from the house, which means the dog would have to be walked a distance away from the house to be let loose.
> 
> And invisible fencing is a no for me too since I know of too many cases where the dogs burst through the line and then refuse to come back home again. I know, because I've had to deal with stray neighborhood dogs who were terrified of their property line. And it doesn't work for some soft dogs.
> 
> Sorry for being so bossy and obnoxious about this. It's not my intention and I absolutely appreciate all of the work that rescue groups do. God bless you guys.


 
Well, since we're both in Michigan, if you're ever in the market to adopt, look me up! Sounds like you are the kind of home we are looking for!


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## Megora

RachelsGoldens said:


> Well, since we're both in Michigan, if you're ever in the market to adopt, look me up! Sounds like you are the kind of home we are looking for!


I'll keep that in mind now that I know that there are workable alternatives for us as far as golden rescues here in Michigan. Thank goodness.


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## cubbysan

I am wondering right now how many dogs are lost or have escaped in New England because they walked over their 4 or 5 foot fence because of the snow? I saw a lot of that when I lived there. I believe a fence gives a false sense of security.

My friend had a keeshound. She fenced in her whole yard front and back. The dog loved being outside, so she would leave the dog outside when she went to work. ( I did not agree with this, but some people you just can't change their mind. ) When she got home, Max would always be in the yard happily greeting her.

One day the mailman mentioned that her dog was running through the streets of her neighborhood everyday. She said that was impossible, because he was fenced in with keyed locks. The next day, she pretended to go to work, left the neighborhood for about 5 minutes and drove back. Sure enough, there was Max walking the neighborhood, totally in shock when he saw her car. Apparently, he never left when she was home, but would wait until she left, had dug a small hole behind a bush on the fence line, and would squeeze through. When he was done with his adventure, he would crawl back into the yard.


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## LifeOfRiley

cubbysan said:


> I am wondering right now how many dogs are lost or have escaped in New England because they walked over their 4 or 5 foot fence because of the snow? I saw a lot of that when I lived there. I believe a fence gives a false sense of security.
> 
> My friend had a keeshound. She fenced in her whole yard front and back. The dog loved being outside, so she would leave the dog outside when she went to work. ( I did not agree with this, but some people you just can't change their mind. ) When she got home, Max would always be in the yard happily greeting her.
> 
> One day the mailman mentioned that her dog was running through the streets of her neighborhood everyday. She said that was impossible, because he was fenced in with keyed locks. The next day, she pretended to go to work, left the neighborhood for about 5 minutes and drove back. Sure enough, there was Max walking the neighborhood, totally in shock when he saw her car. Apparently, he never left when she was home, but would wait until she left, had dug a small hole behind a bush on the fence line, and would squeeze through. When he was done with his adventure, he would crawl back into the yard.


Wow - I hope she kept him inside during the day, after that!

I agree that fences can certainly provide a false sense of security. They can provide an extra layer of safety and they sure are nice for those quick potty trips when it's pouring rain... but they're no substitute for supervision.


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## BeauShel

Just to point out, our rescue doesnt have the rule of fences in stone or condos. We evaluate each dog and home individually. But it could have made a big difference with CoCo if he went to a home with no fence. I had a fence so he never got to run in the back yard but that one time when he saw his freedom he ran. So if he went to a home without a fence they could have lost him the first day.


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## LifeOfRiley

BeauShel said:


> Just to point out, our rescue doesnt have the rule of fences in stone or condos. We evaluate each dog and home individually. But it could have made a big difference with CoCo if he went to a home with no fence. I had a fence so he never got to run in the back yard but that one time when he saw his freedom he ran. So if he went to a home without a fence they could have lost him the first day.


Well yeah, okay - I wasn't looking at it that way. But you're right. That could have been an immediate disaster! 

I'm really glad to hear that so many rescues don't have that automatic rule, though, and will evaluate each dog and each potential adopter. I'm starting to think that this one particular rescue might be the exception, not the rule. That's good to know.


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## Karen519

*LifeofRiley*

LifeofRiley

I hope you find the dog that is meant to be yours soon.


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## LifeOfRiley

Karen519 said:


> LifeofRiley
> 
> I hope you find the dog that is meant to be yours soon.


Thanks, but the argument still isn't for us. We're not planning to add a second dog anytime soon. Maybe someday we will, but for now I'm arguing for the other perfectly wonderful homes out there who are turned away just because they don't have a fence.


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## magiclover

I have been wanting to foster for a long time and the time is right for me when we move back to the US. My property is over an acre so plenty of room. Our subdivision does not allow fencing so we have the IF. I do know the local Golden Rescue states that fences are required or a tie out, no IF. I never let my dogs out without being with them or watching them closely. I'm concerned that I won't be a good candidate because of the IF. They would never adopt to me unless the dog was on a tie out or fenced.


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## Itz_Lori

We were automatically turned down for any dog for a pet rescue in our area because we didn't have a fence, and we live in the country!! On their website it says never buy a dog, always adopt. We tried, but because of the fence thing and being turned down, we ended up buying a puppy. They are always advertising in the newspaper, they really need to find homes for their dogs. We are an extremly loving family, who had had a dog previous to that, but she passed away. I'm really put off their agency because of this experience, and I'll tell that to anyone who mentiions it to me.


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## LifeOfRiley

magiclover said:


> I have been wanting to foster for a long time and the time is right for me when we move back to the US. My property is over an acre so plenty of room. Our subdivision does not allow fencing so we have the IF. I do know the local Golden Rescue states that fences are required or a tie out, no IF. I never let my dogs out without being with them or watching them closely. I'm concerned that I won't be a good candidate because of the IF. They would never adopt to me unless the dog was on a tie out or fenced.


There again, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I'm very leery of invisible fences and can't see myself ever trusting one, personally. But I don't think I would trust a tie-out, either. Mainly because you know darned well that most people are going to tie the dog out and won't keep an eye on it. Too many things could happen, so I don't see why they consider a tie-out to be safer than an IF.

And you know... if you really have your heart set on fostering, you don't necessarily have to go through a "rescue." Watch the papers, watch the kill shelters, watch Craigslist and do it on your own. You wouldn't have the financial support that a rescue could give you, as far as vet bills and whatnot, but if it's something you could swing on your own, I would say go for it. I know that I, personally, would rather donate money to help an independent rescuer. I can't be the only one! So maybe it's something you could really pull off on your own...??




Itz_Lori said:


> We were automatically turned down for any dog for a pet rescue in our area because we didn't have a fence, and we live in the country!! On their website it says never buy a dog, always adopt. We tried, but because of the fence thing and being turned down, we ended up buying a puppy. They are always advertising in the newspaper, they really need to find homes for their dogs. We are an extremly loving family, who had had a dog previous to that, but she passed away. I'm really put off their agency because of this experience, and I'll tell that to anyone who mentiions it to me.


That's one of my biggest concerns, too - I would imagine that _many_ people have ended up buying puppies when they would have rescued. It seems very counterproductive on the part of some (certainly not all) of these rescues. They're really shooting themselves in the foot.

That's what irritated me so much about the particular rescue we talked to. I know they hold frequent fundraisers, are always looking for donations and are always saying that they're desperate to find foster and permanent homes. Yet, they turn people away automatically, without even considering the situation.
The two volunteers we met at Petco were very eager to take our donation, were trying to get us to look at their notebook full of available dogs, even _after_ we told them that we weren't ready to adopt. (Because trying to talk someone into adopting who has just said they aren't ready is a good idea.) And the minute we mentioned not having a fence, it was basically 'get lost.' So I understand what you mean about being put off. 
I've been very generous with this particular rescue in the past, too. But not anymore. I figure there are plenty of other rescues out there who could use the help.


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## Charliethree

Before getting involved in rescue - I was of the opinion that I did not 'need' someone to tell me I was qualified to own a dog. I knew I was a good, loving and responsible owner -no one was going to be allowed to tell me different - so yes - I purchased the dogs of my choice. Since being involved in fostering and rescue of homeless and unwanted dogs - I can now see things in a very different light. The majority of dogs needing rescue are in the situation because of irresponsible owners. I see injured dogs that have been suffering for who knows how long? I see starved dogs that have never had a decent meal, I see frightened dogs that have never experienced a kind human being, I see puppies die at only a few days/weeks old because their 'owner' didn't care enough to give them or their starving mother a little food and a warm place to sleep - I see the reality of irresponsible owners and unwanted dogs. My deepest desire for these dogs is to have them in homes that will love them, feed them, give them a warm place to sleep and keep them safe so that they NEVER are in need of rescue again. For the rescue I work with it does not mean that the potential adopter must have a fenced yard, but it does mean that each and every application will be given due consideration, with a fenced yard being an added plus for the safety of the dog because people do tire of having to go out with the dog every time it needs out and will 'once in a while' send it out on it's own.


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## mylissyk

LifeofRiley, I truly do understand your problem with the fence rule. BUT, I would really, really like for you to volunteer with a rescue group for several months - on the ground, intake interviews, transport, fostering or even home visits for potential adopters. You are making judgements without having any knowledge of what you are talking about, and I don't mean to be rude or harsh, but truthfully you are continuing to argue something without the knowledge you need to back it up.

If you volunteer for awhile and actually see the reality of what rescue deals with and you still want to argue about the rules, first I'll be surprised, but second I would have more respect for your side of the argument.


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## LifeOfRiley

mylissyk said:


> LifeofRiley, I truly do understand your problem with the fence rule. BUT, I would really, really like for you to volunteer with a rescue group for several months - on the ground, intake interviews, transport, fostering or even home visits for potential adopters. You are making judgements without having any knowledge of what you are talking about, and I don't mean to be rude or harsh, but truthfully you are continuing to argue something without the knowledge you need to back it up.
> 
> If you volunteer for awhile and actually see the reality of what rescue deals with and you still want to argue about the rules, first I'll be surprised, but second I would have more respect for your side of the argument.


There's really no need to get defensive. It wasn't my intention to "continue to argue something." I was responding to individual posts made in the thread.
I'm also not criticizing all rescues or rescuers. I know there are many wonderful rescues and volunteers out there. And I can't imagine what they see on a daily basis. I would probably cry myself to sleep every night if I had to see it. Honestly, I probably would. It would be absolutely heartbreaking. 
But I still maintain that if the objective is to place dogs in loving, safe, responsible homes, they need to be evaluated on more of a case-by-case basis. Blanket, arbitrary rules defeat the purpose. You can see that by the posts in this thread (and in the apartment thread, as well.) Many fantastic homes have been, or would be automatically "disqualified" without so much as a second look, while the rescue is saying that they're in desperate need of homes. That's what I have a problem with. And I don't see that any amount of rescue work is going to change my mind about that.


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## aussieresc

This is a good article about why rescues have the requirements that they do

Those darn dog rescues with all of their rules and questions - what gives? - National Dogs | Examiner.com


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## LifeOfRiley

aussieresc said:


> This is a good article about why rescues have the requirements that they do
> 
> Those darn dog rescues with all of their rules and questions - what gives? - National Dogs | Examiner.com


 
That is a good article. I couldn't disagree with one point made there.
"Exceptional homes" certainly should be the standard.


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## chompstick

I am the Adoption Coordinator with Golden Retriever Rescue of Southern Maryland. We are a small group and can, therefore, have fewer blanket rules. Every rescued dog is fostered by an experienced family that knows how to evaluate the particular needs of that dog. We may or may not have an accurate report from the give-up owners, but too often, they tell us extreme lies to make their dogs seem perfect.

Many folks do not realize the extent of the abuse and neglect many of these dogs have experienced. Because of that, their future behavior can be hard to ascertain and the only way to protect their well-being is to be very, very picky. Most golden rescues have waiting lists for every dog that is rescued. It's not necessarily a case of us discriminating against some families; it's just that there are factors that will make one family more desirable than another. Yes, good families fall through the cracks, but rescues do need some guidelines to work with. 

Every dog is evaluated on his or her need or ability to reside with other dogs, cats, children, activity level, neediness, etc. An older, more independent dog doesn't require someone home as much as a velcro Golden.

Our general rules (but not hard fast) are that dogs under 2 require a physical fence. This is because of their activity level, and also because sometimes their propensity to run is not fully known. Some dogs older than this might also require physical fences depending on their history and behavior in foster care. Any stray dogs or animal control pick-ups are usually required to have a fence.

We do not consider an electronic fence to be a fence. In fact, I find it to be a negative because of the false sense of security. Many people are unaware of the true dangers of electronic fences. Many applicants argue over this with me, and some of you may also. Read Simply Shocking - Electronic dog fences to learn more.

Dogs that have never lived with children, and all strays, will not be placed with families that have children under the age of about 8.

We will not adopt to any family who crates their dogs all day.

Families where all adults in the household are out of the home for more than 8 hours will find it much harder to adopt a dog. Dogs under the age of 2 require at least one adult home part of the day.

Dog runs, outdoor tie-ups or stakes, dog houses, etc, are not acceptable.

Some dogs will require a canine companion in the adoptive home, for example, if they came from a home with other dogs.

Goldens rescued from a puppy mill are required to be re-homed with a family that has another dog. This is because puppy mill dogs have had no socialization and usually don't know how to be dogs, and can only learn from other dogs.

Surely you can understand that if we have a family with two mature adults, no young children, one adult stays home all day, fully fenced yard, on a back road away from traffic, a fantastic exercise plan, another canine companion in the home, etc, that they are most likely going to be adopting a dog before a wonderful family that doesn't have the same situation. However, we welcome anyone to submit an application, and we do not charge an application fee.

Please keep in mind that rescues are run by volunteers. My position as the adoption coordinator, home visit coordinator, and board member is nearly a full-time job, as are mnay of our volunteer positions. Rules and guidelines allow us to do our jobs effectively.

I welcome any questions you may have.


www.goldenretrieverrescueofsouthernmaryland.org
_Visit our blog!_


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## mylissyk

There was a partner piece to that one that is really good too:

Insight for the critics of dog rescue rules - National Dogs | Examiner.com


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## CAROLINA MOM

Both of these articles are very very good. Thanks for posting their links.

*Chompstick*-great post, very informative!


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## LifeOfRiley

Chompstick - thank you for your post! 

It sounds like your rescue is quite different from our local Golden rescue. 
I understand the need for guidelines and the need to match each individual dog with the right home -- absolutely! But it sounds like you have (and do) put time, effort and thought into making the matches. I have nothing but respect for that. It's nice to know that not all rescues are created equal.


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## chompstick

LifeOfRiley said:


> The rescue Golden we met Saturday had been returned to GRIN twice because she was "too calm." She's 7 years old and had gone to families with kids. Well, apparently the kids didn't like her because she isn't very playful.


We had someone return a dog once (after only 2 days) because the dog didn't retrieve! :uhoh:


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## LifeOfRiley

chompstick said:


> We had someone return a dog once (after only 2 days) because the dog didn't retrieve! :uhoh:


Wow. Just... wow.
I guess I'll never understand some people. And I'll definitely never understand how you could have the patience to deal with them! I don't think I could do it.


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## Megora

I thought this belonged here... or somewhere. o_)

Got home from work and found out that my mom had just thrown up. This because somebody had let my Jacks outside and forgot to bring him back inside. And I guess he'd been out there for ten or fifteen minutes before they spotted him meandering around the backyard. 

He made no attempt to leave the property or stray too far from the house. That's a plus and kinda shows what I was saying earlier about the importance of training. 

And my mom was so upset over what could have happened that she ran out in her shorts to go get him (my mom who has osteoarthritis in her feet) and coming back to the house, she threw up. 

That does show you how important our dogs are to my family and why I never worry about leaving my golden in my mom's care. 

That's totally different from what I know happens with other goldens out there. I mentioned this in the peeve thread, but our neighbor left their senior golden outside again. They are so preoccupied with other things in their lives that they let their dogs outside and forget about them. 

And furthermore, while we were trying to decide whether to break into the house again the family's teenage son pulled out of the driveway and drove past us. He didn't even stop when he saw I had his golden by the scruff (I'd grabbed a hold of her and pulled her to the side of the road). 

There are people like that out there... that's why I think that there should be a fence requirement, even if I disagree about it being mandatory.


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## Jo Ellen

Well I'm just going to say ... 

I don't have a fence, I have an invisible fence (training accomplished, collar no longer needed). But to my point, she has never, NEVER, been left outside and forgotten about. When she's outside, I'm with her or I'm watching her. I know where my dog is 24/7, without fail. 

I'm with Megora, I understand the fence requirement but some dogs can have great homes without fences


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## ebenjamin85

When we purchased a house a fence was on our "must" list. However, for Samantha's first two years we rented and did not have a fence, or a yard for that matter. We walked her (on a leash) at least 6 times a day!! She got a ton of exercise and was never out of our sight, let alone control. I understand the position or rescues but still feel that decisions need to be made on an individual basis.


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## GinnyinPA

I really can see both sides of this issue. We were able to get Ben since we had an e-fence in place and the rescue group allowed that. Now it turns out that we can't trust him with it: if he sees anything exciting, he'll just barge on through. For us that isn't really a problem, because we are willing to stay outside with him in the back yard on a long leash and we enjoy taking him for long walks. But a lot of people aren't willing or able to take the time/effort. They may intend to do so, they may tell the rescue group that they will do so, but when it comes down to it, a lot of people won't do what is necessary. Having a fenced yard doesn't mean the dog will get enough exercise, and in many cases provides an excuse for not taking the dog out on walks, but at least the dog can enjoy being outdoors - being a dog.


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## Hali's Mom

GinnyinPA said:


> I really can see both sides of this issue. We were able to get Ben since we had an e-fence in place and the rescue group allowed that. Now it turns out that we can't trust him with it: if he sees anything exciting, he'll just barge on through. For us that isn't really a problem, because we are willing to stay outside with him in the back yard on a long leash and we enjoy taking him for long walks. But a lot of people aren't willing or able to take the time/effort. They may intend to do so, they may tell the rescue group that they will do so, but when it comes down to it, a lot of people won't do what is necessary. Having a fenced yard doesn't mean the dog will get enough exercise, and in many cases provides an excuse for not taking the dog out on walks, but at least the dog can enjoy being outdoors - being a dog.


Thank you Ginny for this post, this has always been my reluctance with the IF. That and the fear of "once out, afraid to return". I'm pretty sure that my obedience trained, laid back golden would have not hesitated twice to charge IF to go chase Peter Rabbit.


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## GoldenFan

i think it just depends on the rescue group...our local groups says they require a fence but i got around that hurdle...i live in a gated apartment community with alot of green space both in and out of the gates...my dog was 6 when i adopted her and in addition to great green spaces for walking, i am in a situation where i can take my dog to work with me and live in a town with many dog parks. also, i bring her everywhere i go that dogs are allowed so i think they felt good that she would get out and about enough.


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