# Need Info How often BREEDING ??



## joysgirls (Oct 16, 2010)

How often is responsible breeding of a female.??? I am considering a puppy from a female that is due anyday now In researching OFA & K9 data I found she just had at least one pup in March 2010. That would be only 9 months ago


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Sorry but it isn't a simple question. 

Whether a bitch is ready to be bred is dependent upon her overall health and condition. Sometimes they can be bred back to back. Sometimes once a year is pushing it. Sometimes it might take more than a year to recover and be ready for another litter. It just isn't a simple as looking at the calendar.


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## Tanyac (Jun 18, 2008)

I think it is generally acceptable that if a bitch has a very small litter, it is ok to breed her on her next season as long as she is fit and well.

Of more concern to me would be the amount of litters a bitch has had overall. A lot of breeders will have at least 3, sometimes 4. Only you could decide whether that is too many.


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## joysgirls (Oct 16, 2010)

I know she had one in 2008- but not sure if any in 2009 what should I be asking the breeder at this point??? I'm getting worried about getting one of her puppies. She also has extra eyelashes noted on her CERF


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Based on my (admittedly limited) knowledge about breeding, I wouldn't judge a breeder solely on doing a back to back breeding. If there are other issues then maybe that would be a factor, but not that standing on its own.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

The extra eyelashes - Distichiasis - is a Breeder's Option as to whether or not the dog should be bred according to CERF. The breeder of the litter will hopefully made inquiries as to the stud and the dogs behind the stud prior to deciding on using him. 
As to your concern about "how much is to much"? For a boy that rarely seems to be an issue and their breeding "career" can go on for much longer than a bitch's and I am not even throwing frozen semen into this equation. For a bitch it is much more of a personal choice. Many of the top repo specialists will tell you it is in the bitch's best interest to breed her back to back cycles especially when they are young. Prior litter size can be of some importance - a large litter will take a bitch longer to physically recover from. 
The MOST important thing at this point in my opinion is you MUST be comfortable with this decision. If not I can almost assure you your relationship with this breeder will quickly deteriorate at the slightest problem that may pop up later. You need to be able to trust your breeder and be comfortable enough to discuss any issue with them. If this breeder is not one you can do this with than you would be better off to continue your search for a pup elsewhere. 

JMHOs


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## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

The CERF report would make me look somewhere else.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Distichia can be a big deal, or a very minor issue. That in itself on a CERF report wouldn't make me look at a different dog. The extra hairs can range from one or two very soft hairs (that sometimes even fall out on their own) that never cause a problem, to a few very hard, stiff hairs that irritate the eye, requiring veterinary care, to an entire row of extra lashes.

I do try not to breed two dogs with distichia together but that's about the extent of my worry with it.

As for how much is too much, it varies greatly. Many repro vets now feel that doing all of your breedings back to back, and then retiring the bitch from breeding while she is still relatively young is the best thing. Many breeders still have a hard time doing back to back, especially back to back to back, but given proper care and a healthy bitch, most of the time it isn't a problem. Common sense does have to come in at some point though  Also, doing too many breedings too close together does not allow you enough time to evaluate what your bitch is producing, so that you can adjust your future breedings to continuously improve upon what you have produced.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

It totally depends, not an easy and clear out answer. I know a few friends who are breeders who did the clearances, got some performance titles and now have had issues with getting their 4-5 year old girls to have bigger litters - they're getting 2 and 3 pups for breeds that normally would have 7-10 or so on average. There's also the risk of pyo if you wait too long to breed too. Depends too on the momma, some look like they've been through war, others bounce right back and look awesome.

Personally I'm thinking I'll (when and if all works out) aim to breed a back to back with a younger dog, wait a year then do another litter if all works out. But it depends on so much.

I'd look at the bigger picture of the breeder - how many litters a year are they having, how many dogs do they have and so on.

Lana


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## joysgirls (Oct 16, 2010)

Thanks everyone- I don't know how you know how many dogs that a breeder is breeding or has?? We are quite far away from this breeder and are going by whats on the web site and one phone call. The sire is a CH & has all clearances . He is 7 yrs old and the dam is 4 3/4 yrs old.


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## eeneymeanymineymo (Oct 5, 2009)

joysgirls said:


> Thanks everyone- I don't know how you know how many dogs that a breeder is breeding or has?? We are quite far away from this breeder and are going by whats on the web site and one phone call. The sire is a CH & has all clearances . He is 7 yrs old and the dam is 4 3/4 yrs old.


I would pick up the phone and ask the breeder all of your questions that you have. You have gotten a lot of good information so far but honestly, you need to speak with the breeder about your concerns. I am certain this breeder can explain her reasons for breeding the bitch and why she did a back to back breeding. 

The bitch had a litter when she was over two, then another just 9 months ago. That is not irresponsible breeding. Most likely she bred her back to back as the bitch is closing in on 5 years of age and perhaps she is planning on ending her breeding career? Just ask - any good breeder will tell you why they choose to breed when they do.

As far as distance, I would be making a visit to the breeder to meet them in person, see her dogs and visit with the puppies. If you are uncomfortable with the breeder at that point, then you should express your concerns.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

This is a great question. One that I've wanted to ask as well since Cosmo's mommy is also Sierra's (RSHANNING) mommy and Sierra is less than a year older than Cosmo. For some reason I had always thought there should be a year between.

Are you comfortable telling us which breeder it is? As a community there is usually someone here who has dealt with a particular breeder. If not, that's fine too. I would definitely ask a lot of questions and go visit for sure. Out of the 5 breeders we visited in person we were only comfortable with 2 of them when we actually went there. For 2 of them we turned around as soon as we saw their house because we were that uncomfortable. Both were listed on a local club website.


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## SunGold (Feb 27, 2007)

Here is an article on the subject... How Often To Breed Your Bitch

I have done back to back breedings in the past and will do them in the future as long as my girls are healthy and easy whelpers. It's totally a personal choice that you need to be comfortable with. 

The distichia woudn't bother me as long as the sire was normal and the girl didn't have any issues resulting from the extra lashes.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

*How Often to breed.....*

I just attended a canine repro continuing education meeting as a veterinarian last Wednesday. The speaker was Dr. Threlfall and he advocated breeding back to back. He also said alot of things that were contrary to what I have been taught or told. Me, personally, I have never done it in my personal breedings, but I have learned to say, " never say never" when breeding dogs. I also said I would never breed one of my female dogs at 6 years(which I did), she whelped at 7 years and had the largest litter she ever had(9) and it was her easiest whelping. All pups survived and were healthy.

Additionally at the annual eye clearances my breeding dogs(current AND retired) undergo, I have questioned the ophthalmologist about distichia. According to her, it is all over the board in the goldens up in the Northeast. She does not see it as a health concern in goldens(vs other breeds like cockers). It is a rare golden that is irritated by the lashes. I take my dogs to the same ophthalmologist every year. On occasion, she has seen distichia on one of my girls. The next year and years after, never sees them again. It depends on their shed cycle, it seems... and obviously they have only 1-2 extra lashes. The condition has never been a problem with my dogs. Distichia is a "breeder option" as previously stated. Juvenile cataracts, GR uveitis, etc are much more worrisome in the background of our dogs.


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## Glory's Mom (Feb 26, 2013)

I have a similar question. We recently went to a breeder whose dam is on her sixth litter and she is five years old. The current litter is 9 puppies. Is this too much?


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Glory's Mom said:


> I have a similar question. We recently went to a breeder whose dam is on her sixth litter and she is five years old. The current litter is 9 puppies. Is this too much?


In my opinion - YES!!!


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Glory's Mom said:


> I have a similar question. We recently went to a breeder whose dam is on her sixth litter and she is five years old. The current litter is 9 puppies. Is this too much?


I would not do that-even if she were producing litters of all titled dogs. Assuming she was not bred until she was two, that's two litters every year. I do back to back breedings but that seems a bit much to me.


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## hvgoldens4 (Nov 25, 2009)

Glory's Mom said:


> I have a similar question. We recently went to a breeder whose dam is on her sixth litter and she is five years old. The current litter is 9 puppies. Is this too much?



Absolutely agree with Hank on this one. There is no problem with breeding bitches back to back and the reproductive specialists and therientologists actually recommend that for the health of the bitch. The girls should be bred and then spayed.

However, in my opinion, 6 litters is far too many especially at her age. I also couldn't see asking any of my girls to have 6 litters. The breeder should have gotten what they wanted from the bitch a few litters ago and retired her. If they have needed 6 litters to try to get something worth keeping, then the bitch shouldn't be bred at all. 

Often times, when a bitch is bred this often, it has nothing to do with a breeding program and only to do with producing puppies.


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## Tanyac (Jun 18, 2008)

Glory's Mom said:


> I have a similar question. We recently went to a breeder whose dam is on her sixth litter and she is five years old. The current litter is 9 puppies. Is this too much?


Wow, in my opinion this is way too many.

We've recently decided against breeding my girl for a third litter. She's just 6 years old.

To breed a bitch that many times she would probably have had all her litters back to back! I wonder what kind or normal life she has ever had other than producing babies for her owner to make a profit.

Poor girl


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

We are now limited to 4 litters for every bitch in the UK and no more than 2 caesars. Annef


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Actually the back to back breedings are recommended for the health and impact of the hormones on the uterus, not for the health of the bitch.. Four litters is a lot... Anecdotally here in the Northeast, I have heard of one breeder with a bitch who had eight c- sections...


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Sally's Mom said:


> Actually the back to back breedings are recommended for the health and impact of the hormones on the uterus, not for the health of the bitch.. Four litters is a lot... Anecdotally here in the Northeast, I have heard of one breeder with a bitch who had eight c- sections...


And the vet still has a license to practice?


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## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

Every dog is different. Going back to back may be fine for some while others need a break. There are also differences in how each girl cycles. I have had some that cycle 6 months to the day. Then I had one who is from 6 months and has gone up past 12 months. (she was my unpredictable exception) Personally I haven't had one who had over 3 litters in their lifetime and each one was evaluated after the litter to decide when or if they should have another. I make sure it is best for them. Every dog and ever time has been different for each of my girls. Example: One girl had one litter at 4 and it was decided it was her last, One had a litter fantastic recovery had another another skipping a cycle, then waited almost two years and she had a third. She was a great mom but took longer to snap back so that was her last as it was best for her. Then another had two litters back to back she snapped back quick and looks fantastic but I want her to stay that way so she will not have pups for a while now and then that will only be determined at the time. 

Having 6 litters in that dogs time span that is described above seems unbelievable to me. Watch for those who are breeding for the mass producing and not taking the girls health and well being into consideration.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Claudia M said:


> And the vet still has a license to practice?


My issue is with the "breeder"... In all likelihood, the same vet did not do all of the surgeries... I do,not advocate this... I have one bitch who needed a c-section and she was spayed when she healed.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Claudia M said:


> And the vet still has a license to practice?


It is the breeder not the vet who breed the dog the 8 times to get the litters.

I don't think the vet could just spay the dog without the owners consent.


I believe most, if not all, English Bulldogs are born by c-section. Their heads are too big for the birth canal.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

MikaTallukah, exactly... Once the dog has been bred by the breeder who doesn't ace and the dog needs a c-section. Believe me, owners do not listen,people I respect do not listen...


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