# Question for those with titles



## Kohanagold (Nov 5, 2008)

I'm mostly just curious but I have a 2 part question:

What do you think is the "most important" title for a golden? One where, its not simply good enough to say they _can_ but rather that they _have_?

And second, which title are you most proud of/did you work the hardest for/do you feel is you and your dogs "greatest" accomplishment?

BJ


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I think the ultimate titles are the VCX/MH.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I think the most important title is "Best Friend".
Other than that, any of the versatility titles which show the dog is an all-around dog, not just another pretty face, or a smart dog that can hardly move correctly, etc.
The one that the Tito monster has that I'm most proud of so far is his CDX, because I've never trained at that level before, and he got it at 18 months in 3 consecutive shows.
I never miss a chance to brag about it.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

"Most important" -- there is no "most important title"
Titles can be bought, it's how you get there. I would never judge a dog by a title alone.
Having said that, an owner-handled CH in a golden is something that will make you proud for years to come...
Your first UD is SO rewarding, after all of that hard work...
The VCX says your dog is a total package....
Now...check back when we can brag on a owner-handled MH 
--Anney
& Fisher too
CH Deauxquest Hard Day's Knight UD RAE TD JH WCX CCA VCX


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Honestly, for me, the titles I am proudest of aren't even really titles in the traditional sense of the word, but I am proudest of the Outstanding Sires and Outstanding Dams I have owned and produced.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I think ANY title that you put on a dog is an important accomplishment. No matter the title, it says that you value the relationship you have with your dog and enjoy spending time working with him, etc.

For me, I aspire to put a UDX and MACH on Quiz. To date, I feel his most impressive title is the WCDex. He's the ONLY Golden in the country to hold that title and is also the highest scoring WCDex dog in the country. AND, he earned the title at 18 months. (The WCD is a Working Trial title and the 'ex' part is a special distinction b/c of his high score.) Working Trials are very popular in Europe, but aren't often held in the US. The novice level includes heeling, dumbbell, scent work, schutzhund-style jumping, a 10 min out of sight stay and possible something else I'm forgetting... It was a lot of fun!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I love the videos of Quiz in the ring- especially his obvious joy in working for you. It's clear why he is FLYINGQUIZ.

Anney, do you have Fisher on video? His GRnews ad was great last issue.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Anney, do you do all your own handling? 
I saw Fisher's add in the GR news, what a stunning dog. With so many titles, no wonder you can't pick just one "most important" !!




K9-Design said:


> "Most important" -- there is no "most important title"
> Titles can be bought, it's how you get there. I would never judge a dog by a title alone.
> Having said that, an owner-handled CH in a golden is something that will make you proud for years to come...
> Your first UD is SO rewarding, after all of that hard work...
> ...


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> I think ANY title that you put on a dog is an important accomplishment. No matter the title, it says that you value the relationship you have with your dog and enjoy spending time working with him, etc.


What she said!

I think a versatility title would be quite an achievement! As far as my own I am very proud of all my agility titles, because they are my first dogs and agility is the first venue I have ever trained for, they are very special. My current favorite would be the highest on each dog in that venue, so my MX on Barley and Sammy's AX/AXJ

My goal is a MACH title on both the boys.


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## kgiff (Jul 21, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> I think ANY title that you put on a dog is an important accomplishment. No matter the title, it says that you value the relationship you have with your dog and enjoy spending time working with him, etc.


I completely agree with this!

Cisco is the first dog I've ever put a title on and each of those letters after his name has blood, sweat, and tears behind them. I hope to get a few more letters behind his name. But even if we don't, there are a tone of memories behind it all and even all the times we missed qualifying.

Berkley doesn't have the same string of letters behind his name, but that doesn't mean he's any less important to me (I retired him from agility one leg short of a title). 

My puppy has a ton of potential and I hope to get letters after AND Before his name, but even if we don't. I'm still going to have a ton of fun with him.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

I had to go dig this up.... I thought it was appropriate, although I am sure most of you have read it before!


*What Is In A Title?*

Not just a brag,
Not just a stepping stone to a higher title,
Not just an adjunct to competitive scores,
A title is a tribute to the dog that bears it,
A way to honor the dog, an ultimate memorial.

It will remain in the record and in the memory,
For about as long as anything in the world can remain.

And though the dog itself doesn’t know or care that its achievements have been noted,
A title says many things in the world of humans where such things count.

A title says your dog was intelligent, adaptable and good-natured.
It says that your dog loved you enough to do the things that pleased you,
However crazy they may have sometimes seemed.

In addition, a title says that you loved your dog.
That you loved to spend time with him because he was a good dog,
And that you believed in him enough to give him yet another chance when he failed,
And in the end your faith was justified.

A title proves that your dog inspired you to that special relationship enjoyed by so few,
That in a world of disposable creatures,
This dog with a title was greatly loved and loved greatly in return.

And when that dear short life is over,
The title remains as a memorial of the finest kind,
The best you can give to a deserving friend.

Volumes of praise in one small set of initials after the name.
An obedience, agility, flyball, herding, conformation, CGC, TDI certificate, etc.

A TITLE IS NOTHING LESS THAN TRUE LOVE AND RESPECT,
GIVEN AND RECEIVED AND RECORDED PERMANENTLY.

Author Unknown


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I would say I am most impressed by obedience and advanced hunting titles because of the time and effort and training and bonding that goes into them

However, all titles are great, and it is also possible to have that bond without getting titles. Rigby only has small titles, but they reflect our fun times together- including his 12 AKC championship points. We worked the hardest for those, simply in terms of time, travel, and money- his coursing points and his JC were easily earned in a few local trials (he never ran and didn't at least make the ribbons in a full stake). They are proof of his natural instinct, and maybe to a small degree my conditioning of him- however, I'd keep him in that shape coursing or not. 

I'd love to get a couple more small titles on him, but I'm sure I never will- however no one could ever deny the bond we share.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I would say I am most impressed by obedience and advanced hunting titles because of the time and effort and training and bonding that goes into them

However, all titles are great, and it is also possible to have that bond without getting titles. Rigby only has small titles, but they reflect our fun times together- including his 12 AKC championship points. We worked the hardest for those, simply in terms of time, travel, and money- his coursing points and his JC were easily earned in a few local trials (he never ran and didn't at least make the ribbons in a full stake). They are proof of his natural instinct, and maybe to a small degree my conditioning of him- however, I'd keep him in that shape coursing or not. 

I'd love to get a couple more small titles on him, but I'm sure I never will- however no one could ever deny the bond we share.


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## Kohanagold (Nov 5, 2008)

While I agree that each title is "important", I think that Sydney's TD holds the most value for me. Any dog can get a CD (really... if she could do it!). Her Ch is pretty special, but I didn't do it with her (I showed her, but she got all her points being handled by somebody else). Her AgN was special too, but she always wanted to do it HER way. A TD is one of the few titles where you have to truly trust your dog and you're out there, just you and your dog, through adversity (if they overshoot a corner, or get lost) and its a lot of work and energy to teach a dog to track. It was a thrill like no other when we hit the glove at the end and she stopped on a dime and dropped. For Sydney, it was exactly the right game for her, because the dog is the one "in charge" and when they say "this way", you need to follow. 

I have great dreams for Paige... I want her to be my first OTCH dog, but I also want a TDX (if not a TCh... depending if we can get into urban tracking or not) and of course her Ch... but so far its been all about obedience and yet I'm not in any sort of hurry to trial with her yet. 

BJ


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

Quite honestly, I do not think there is a "most important" title. Yes, I already have tons of ribbons and rosettes from the first year I have shown Layla, but it is not the ribbons or titles that keeps me going. I cherish each special moment I have with my girls. It is the hard work and bonding that go into the training and showing which are most rewarding for me. For me, having a girl who loves me enough to put her whole heart into making me smile is more rewarding than any title will ever be. She pops herself into place with the tiniest verbal command and literally prances around the ring.

Just the past show, I had one of those special moments. Layla has been blowing her out of sight down and sit stays for about a month. I worked so hard up to that UKC weekend of obedience trials. Layla never broke a stay all weekend. Honestly, that look I saw on her face when I came back into the ring from the sit stay almost made me cry. She was calmly sitting there waiting for me saying, "It's alright, Mom. I did what you told me to so you would be happy." That meant more to be than getting first out of 13 dogs in our class.

Our bond is what makes showing so special. I do have the lofty goal of getting our OTCH someday, but I know that Layla being my best friend will mean more than any certificate on my wall.


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

Here is a quote from Sandy Mowery (writer for Front and Finish) that really got me thinking about why I wanted to pursue "dog performance activities" with Casey, my Novice A dog.
From: What is an Obedience Title, Really?
"Not just a brag, not just a stepping stone to a higher title, not just an adjunct to competitive scores; a title is a tribute to the dog that bears it, a way to honor the dog, an ultimate memorial. It will remain in the record and in the memory for about as long as anything in the world can remain. And although the dog himself doesn't know or care that his achievements have been noted, a title says many things in the world of humans, where such things count.
A title says your dog was intelligent, adaptable and good natured.
It says that your dog loved you enough to do the things that please you, however crazy they may have sometimes seemed.
In addition, a title says that you love your dog. That you loved to spend time wih him because he was a good dog and that you believed in him enough to give him yet another chance when he failed and in the end your faith was justified.
A title proves that your dog inspired you to that special relationship enjoyed by so few; that in a world of disposible creatures, this dog with a title was greatly loved, and loved greatly in return.
And when that dear short life is over, the title remains as a memorial of the finest kind, the best you can give to a deserving friend. Volumes of praise in one small set of initials after the name.
An obedience title is nothing less than the true love and respect, given and received and recorded permanently."


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

PS: Our CD title will always be very special because it was our first and we both worked very hard to get it! I was proud of Casey overcoming his canine attention deficiet discorder and coming through in the end! "Mom, look at me! I found you (after going off to visit the ring steward in our last heel off leash).


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

Mighty Casey's Mom said:


> PS: Our CD title will always be very special because it was our first and we both worked very hard to get it! I was proud of Casey overcoming his canine attention deficiet discorder and coming through in the end! "Mom, look at me! I found you (after going off to visit the ring steward in our last heel off leash).


You always remember your first title...


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

Yes, I don't think I'll ever be so excited/proud again.
I totally didn't think we'd do it until we actually did.
He is an awesome guy when he focuses.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I sure have liked reading this thread. I have loved each and every answer. All my dogs have dock jumping titles, and Belle several agility, but if you ask my senior golden she likes her title the best! 

MAXINE - QUEEN OF THE WORLD!!!!!!!

:


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## TY 4 (Feb 28, 2009)

K9-Design said:


> "Most important" -- there is no "most important title"
> Titles can be bought, it's how you get there. I would never judge a dog by a title alone.
> Having said that, an owner-handled CH in a golden is something that will make you proud for years to come...
> Your first UD is SO rewarding, after all of that hard work...
> ...


"Titles can be bought" WHAT?  My most rewarding titles, my AKC Master Hunter (MH) title and my UKC Hunter Retriever Champion (HRCH) title. Next accomplishment, AKC Qualified All Age (QAA) Field trial Title.


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

TY 4 said:


> "Titles can be bought" WHAT?  My most rewarding titles, my AKC Master Hunter (MH) title and my UKC Hunter Retriever Champion (HRCH) title. Next accomplishment, AKC Qualified All Age (QAA) Field trial Title.


In conformation, you can build your own majors and stack the odds in your favor. I see this alot in breeds with fewer points needed for a major. Sometimes, in these smaller breeds, a breeder can finish a dog in a couple of weekends.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

TY 4 said:


> "Titles can be bought" WHAT?  My most rewarding titles, my AKC Master Hunter (MH) title and my UKC Hunter Retriever Champion (HRCH) title. Next accomplishment, AKC Qualified All Age (QAA) Field trial Title.


Sure. You want a Champion, pay a big name handler enough money and you will have your Champion.
Want a Master Hunter? Pay a big time pro enough money and you'll have your Master Hunter. 
No, you can't do this with an absolutely terrible dog but you certainly can do it with a mediocre one.
That's why I'd never judge a book by it's cover when it comes to dogs and their titles!


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

TY 4 said:


> "Titles can be bought" WHAT?  My most rewarding titles, my AKC Master Hunter (MH) title and my UKC Hunter Retriever Champion (HRCH) title. Next accomplishment, AKC Qualified All Age (QAA) Field trial Title.


Uh....yeah.

Titles can most definitely bought. Not in the "twenty dollars for that title over there" sense- but in the sense that Anney mentioned. 

I know tons of people- conformation, obedience, agility, and hunt test people- alike that "buy" titles by sending their dogs out with pros weekend after weekend. There are two facets to that- one is that a pro makes a mediocre or not great dog look better and two is that a lot of all of these sports is who you know.


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## TY 4 (Feb 28, 2009)

K9-Design said:


> Sure. You want a Champion, pay a big name handler enough money and you will have your Champion.
> Want a Master Hunter? Pay a big time pro enough money and you'll have your Master Hunter.
> No, you can't do this with an absolutely terrible dog but you certainly can do it with a mediocre one.
> That's why I'd never judge a book by it's cover when it comes to dogs and their titles!


 I didn't pay one red cent to a Pro! I trained my field golden myself! I put all the AKC & UKC titles on him. Why pay a Pro when you can do the training yourself.


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## fuzzbuzz (Aug 3, 2008)

TY 4 said:


> I didn't pay one red cent to a Pro! I trained my field golden myself! I put all the AKC & UKC titles on him. Why pay a Pro when you can do the training yourself.


 
NOW those are titles to be proud of!!


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## TY 4 (Feb 28, 2009)

gabbys mom said:


> Uh....yeah.
> 
> Titles can most definitely bought. Not in the "twenty dollars for that title over there" sense- but in the sense that Anney mentioned.
> 
> I know tons of people- conformation, obedience, agility, and hunt test people- alike that "buy" titles by sending their dogs out with pros weekend after weekend. There are two facets to that- one is that a pro makes a mediocre or not great dog look better and two is that a lot of all of these sports is who you know.


I totally disagree with the mediocre commit. There many dogs that can’t take pressures of training or running in hunt tests or let alone compete in field trials, especially goldens. Ever look at the stats on FT/HT tests. Labs WIN especially in the bigger games i.e. Master, Qual., or Open All Age. What I’m getting at is, no Pro can take a “mediocre or not great dog” and put these bigger titles on these dogs. Many dogs can’t cut the mustard. And they get “washed out” of training programs. Goldens tend to be" soft” and can’t except pressures. I’ve gone to these WC/WCX many (goldens) have a hard time with that. Why there are so many golden’s with just JH titles and not more? Because the dog doesn’t have what it takes (Drive, Desire, Etc.). Don’t get me wrong I love golden retrievers, I’ll always have them. But in the games that I play, there’s not too many that can and wants to play on the top end.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

TY 4 said:


> I totally disagree with the mediocre commit. There many dogs that can’t take pressures of training or running in hunt tests or let alone compete in field trials, especially goldens. Ever look at the stats on FT/HT tests. Labs WIN especially in the bigger games i.e. Master, Qual., or Open All Age. What I’m getting at is, no Pro can take a “mediocre or not great dog” and put these bigger titles on these dogs. Many dogs can’t cut the mustard. And they get “washed out” of training programs. Goldens tend to be" soft” and can’t except pressures. I’ve gone to these WC/WCX many (goldens) have a hard time with that. Why there are so many golden’s with just JH titles and not more? Because the dog doesn’t have what it takes (Drive, Desire, Etc.). Don’t get me wrong I love golden retrievers, I’ll always have them. But in the games that I play, there’s not too many that can and wants to play on the top end.


I am talking hunt tests, not field trials -- a world of difference! I do agree with you that no mediocre dog is going to succeed at field trials. Hunt tests -- another game.
If you think there are not MH dogs out there that were "bought" -- well, I have a bridge to sell you!
One example. I attended a WC/WCX test about 2 years ago. One of the goldens running the WCX refused to pick up the shot flier. It marked the bird and came back to the owner without it. The judges went to look at the bird, and it's head was shot off. The owner cried and complained that "it was a bloody mess and blown to bits, we should get a do-over!" Well guess what, they did get a do-over. This time the dog actually brought the flier back but with the most ridiculous cheerleading from the owner. I mean, really over the top hollaring, clapping, whistling, etc, as the dog moseyed back with the bird. 
Guess what. This dog is now a Master Hunter. The owner gave him to a pro trainer we would all recognize and after going to enough tests, the dog passed five times. 
You or I would have given up long ago on this dog, way too much effort to train him when there are lots of dogs out there begging to do the work. But the owner wanted a MH, and now they've got one.
THAT'S what I'm talking about with "bought" titles.
Lots of classic examples in the breed ring. I have a friend who's golden has failed the CCA exam TWICE...he's with a big name pro handler now and has picked up points recently. I'm sure it won't take them long to finish. She paid her money, she'll have her champion.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Wow this is difficult to answer. My first inclination is to say all my "firsts" are my most rewarding. My first CGC was a vey proud moment for me as it was THE first title I ever put on a dog. My first CD was also very mind blowing to me. And so on. 
As for the ones that have the most meaning I guess those would be the Outstanding Dam title for Keeper and Lucy's CCA award. 
The most stressful but then exhilerating was probalbly watching my daughter with Jersey attain their CD and CDX. 
But what brings the tears to the eyes is the journeys these dogs have taken me on over the last almost 20 years. It truly is not about the ribbons and titles but the bond with the dogs and the friendships I have been priviledged to make.


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## TY 4 (Feb 28, 2009)

K9-Design said:


> I am talking hunt tests, not field trials -- a world of difference! I do agree with you that no mediocre dog is going to succeed at field trials. Hunt tests -- another game.
> If you think there are not MH dogs out there that were "bought" -- well, I have a bridge to sell you!
> One example. I attended a WC/WCX test about 2 years ago. One of the goldens running the WCX refused to pick up the shot flier. It marked the bird and came back to the owner without it. The judges went to look at the bird, and it's head was shot off. The owner cried and complained that "it was a bloody mess and blown to bits, we should get a do-over!" Well guess what, they did get a do-over. This time the dog actually brought the flier back but with the most ridiculous cheerleading from the owner. I mean, really over the top hollaring, clapping, whistling, etc, as the dog moseyed back with the bird.
> Guess what. This dog is now a Master Hunter. The owner gave him to a pro trainer we would all recognize and after going to enough tests, the dog passed five times.
> ...


Yes, I *UNDERSTAND* the difference between hunt tests and field trials that’s the games I play! Even in hunt test training theirs dog that are ONLY going to be junior dogs, because they can't take the pressures they "shut down" which become "wash outs" When I say pressures I'm referring to some of them force-fetching, e-collar conditioning, pile work (force to pile, sit to pile, etc), advanced blind retrieve concepts, and cheating single (water work) which can require large amounts of e-collar stimulation after attrition. I belong to a field trial club near by with all the top heavy hitter FT pros. I throw birds for these guys: Mike Lardy, Andy Attar, and Wayne Curtis. Again not all dogs can be trained to the level of a Master Hunter or titled as such. Even if you throw a dog on Lardy's truck (if he did trained ht dogs) there are no guarantees on any dog getting titles and he’s one of the best FT Pro’s around.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

TY 4 said:


> Even if you throw a dog on Lardy's truck (if he did trained ht dogs) there are no guarantees on any dog getting titles and he’s one of the best FT Pro’s around.


On this point I will totally disagree. I am quite confident that Mike could take an average field ability Golden and attain a MH. No doubt in my mind. Mike IS that good. He would find a way to get it done, trust me. Would he use the same training techniques that he uses on the dogs he normally carries on his truck, absolutely not. But he would be able to work around that.
The reason he and any of the other top trainers don't do this, is it is not worth the time and resources for them to do so. So just because they don't do it does not mean they can't.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I think Lardy could train a housecat to the Master level. Does he want to??? NO! 
T4 I agree with you that there are lots of goldens out there who mentally and physically cannot do the work required past Junior. However there are a lot of goldens with MEDIOCRE field ability that any one of us Joe Schmoe's could never get anywhere with, but a very experienced pro field trainer absolutely could get a MH on. It is not rocket science. There is a huge range in difficulty in Master tests. You just need 5 passes over the lifetime of the dog. If you find a pro willing to take your money and your dog, your mediocre dog can be a Master Hunter. 
My take-home message in all of this is not to argue whether or not a mediocre retriever can be a MH -- because I know this is true. My main point is that, those little initials behind a dog's name do not all imply the same level of talent, effort or ability. If you are interested in using a dog in your breeding program, do not base it on those little letters. Invest the time in watching the dog work, training with the dog, or asking the dog's trainer how the dog works...because not all titles are created equally and with enough time and money you can have yourself a Master Hunter (or whatever else title you desire).


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## TY 4 (Feb 28, 2009)

The bottom line is, train your own mediocre dog yourself. Put “those little initials behind your dog's name” it’s more rewarding and you get more satisfaction out of it, I guess??? And if you want bought titles by hiring a big time pro trainer go ahead and pay the big money to train/handle your dog in hunt tests or whatever your game may be that’s your fault. Train/handle your own mediocre dog yourself!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

TY 4 said:


> The bottom line is, train your own mediocre dog yourself. Put “those little initials behind your dog's name” it’s more rewarding and you get more satisfaction out of it, I guess??? And if you want bought titles by hiring a big time pro trainer go ahead and pay the big money to train/handle your dog in hunt tests or whatever your game may be that’s your fault. Train/handle your own mediocre dog yourself!


You're preachin' to the choir here (well, except my dog is not mediocre  ). All of my dog's titles are owner trained & handled. We are working on Senior/Master now.


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## TY 4 (Feb 28, 2009)

K9-Design said:


> You're preachin' to the choir here (well, except my dog is not mediocre  ).


 Mine is (mediocre) he *only* has a master hunter title and does his job when we duck hunt (only reason I got a dog) and picks up all the birds. I suppose your a *better* duck hunter too.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I'm not sure why you think I'm giving you a hard time about your owner trained MH. I think that is awesome and would love to be there some day! I absolutely agree that everyone should try to do the training and handling themselves and not just pass the dog off to a pro.
Listen, I have an owner-handled breed champion and he gets the same letters before his name that a "MEDIOCRE" golden whose owner paid thousands of dollars to a handler to finish. This doesn't make the dogs the same; THUS -- if you want to use a dog in your breeding program, check him out in person and don't use titles as the only yardstick. That's my only point here.
And FWIW I don't hunt and never have, I just like training dogs.
I think we are agreeing but for some reason you're taking offense to what I'm typing. Oh well.


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