# Wacky hunt title question



## Kylie (Feb 16, 2013)

Many of you know I am getting a performance golden retriever hopefully next year. It will be my first performance golden and I am researching potential titles to train and work towards. I do have an odd question about hunting titles. Are there any titles that can be earned without using real birds/fowl? I can't stand any hunting or any animal being hurt etc. But there is a 500 acre wildlife reserve that is perfect for training near where I live that I hate to go to waste, plus I do believe that it would be fun for both of us. I would love to do the trials and maybe earn a title or two if there are ones that only use bumpers. Thanks, Kylie.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

No, sorry there is not.


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## Kylie (Feb 16, 2013)

AmbikaGR said:


> No, sorry there is not.


ok. thanks for the speedy reply. I didn't think that there would be, but was hoping there would be at least one.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

As Ambika said, no, the titles all require the use of birds.
BUT there's no reason you can't train with bumpers or fake birds (look up Dokkens), and just have fun with it. No titles, but a great way to bond with your pup and have a blast doing it.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Kylie said:


> Many of you know I am getting a performance golden retriever hopefully next year. It will be my first performance golden and I am researching potential titles to train and work towards. I do have an odd question about hunting titles. Are there any titles that can be earned without using real birds/fowl? I can't stand any hunting or any animal being hurt etc. But there is a 500 acre wildlife reserve that is perfect for training near where I live that I hate to go to waste, plus I do believe that it would be fun for both of us. I would love to do the trials and maybe earn a title or two if there are ones that only use bumpers. Thanks, Kylie.


You are looking at the wrong forum---this is HUNT AND FIELD.

I believe that there is something for you in Great Britain. Also I have seen bumper trials on some clubs web site but you won't get a GRCA title or AKC title.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Sometimes there are events that use bumpers or dokkens. I've seen one on tv before. But I don't know if there are any titles to be earned that way. I know not through your major registries you typically think of.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Loisiana said:


> Sometimes there are events that use bumpers or dokkens. I've seen one on tv before.



I remember that also. It was on the Outdoor Channel. I am sure the only way they could get it on the air without any major protests was to do it without real birds. They used the Dokkens and there were many TOP professional handlers who participated. I believe Jackie Mertens (Top Brass Goldens) appeared on it.


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

Are dead birds ok? I think North American Hunting Retriever Association rules may allow provisions for using dead birds or dokkens (fake foam ducks) if logistics don't allow shooting. You may be able to pop a started title on your dogs using dead not live birds, I don't think they always use live birds for the started stake. In the higher stakes they probably do. Maybe you could find some clubs near you and find out what they do at their started tests. The last one I worked at we used dead birds for started.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Most HRC tests use "fresh killed" birds, it's fairly unusual to see live fliers in HRC, although it's becoming more popular recently.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

gdgli said:


> You are looking at the wrong forum---this is HUNT AND FIELD.
> 
> I believe that there is something for you in Great Britain. Also I have seen bumper trials on some clubs web site but you won't get a GRCA title or AKC title.


I was serious about this. Check Pippa Mattinson's website. She may have something there on bumper tests and may have info on something similar here.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

The Super Retriever Series uses Dokkens, however in order to qualify to enter the SRS, you must have already earned a qualifying Title from an approved organization. And those organizations all use birds in their tests.

So, as mentioned earlier there are no competative retriever games that don't use birds.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Also the birds we use come to us in variety of ways. For instance some of ours come from the airport, they are killed by the fish and wildlife service to prevent airplanes from hitting them and causing plane wrecks. Would that be ok for you?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

This might be an unpopular opinion, but if my dog is being tested as a hunting retriever, I believe he should encounter a live bird. Crippled, runner, etc. A true hunting dog will not have any issue picking up a live bird.


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## Discoverer (Feb 3, 2011)

I would agree with a previous author - if you're testing your dog for hunting performance, he should know how to deal with real birds, not just bumpers, but the question is - if you don't want to kill animals, why even bother to train your dog to hunt? Although the Goldens have been bred for waterfowl hunting, there are many other venues your dog can excel and earn titles without hurting other animals.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

It's something I do sometimes feel conflicted about. I don't plan on ever going hunting, so he doesn't need training for that purpose. And he's neutered, so I don't need to make sure he has correct retriever genes to pass on. We're doing hunt tests purely for our enjoyment. So far we've only used previously killed birds, so it hasn't seemed as bad using someone else's bird. But if I want to continue I need to use some live flyers, and it does seem kind of wrong for me to be killing animals solely for the purpose of enjoyment and earning a title. I'm not against hunting, and I'm not against field training, just something I feel conflicted about sometimes when I think about it in my particular situation.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

Just a thought you might want to consider, hire a professional trainer to hunt test or field trial you dog for you. Then you can get the title, but you will not be exposed to the bird part of the process...will cost some money, but will get you what you want!


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