# Feeding bones...



## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Chicken backs do disappear in a matter of seconds sometimes  They're easy to chew for dogs, they have the perfect teeth for this.

The bones will digest no matter how large they are. Not to worry! You may notice a change in stool habits. When Daisy went raw, I didn't see her poop for 2 days. And when Geddy goes poop, you'll be very pleased to see how little it is and how light. Makes yard clean up a breeze!! What this means is that your dog is using most of what they've eaten ... very little waste. That's a good thing! 

Next time try giving her the whole back and just letting her be. She knows exactly what to do with it, as you've seen.

:wave:


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

i dont know much about this but my understanding is that bones are not digestible and are probably not a good thing for a dog to be eating...especially if theyre breaking off or splintering...

what exactly are chicken backs?


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Raw chicken back bones are fine. I've been feeding them to my dog for years now. Many other raw feeders have experience with this and will tell you the same.

It's the cooked bones you need to worry about, because they've lost their moisture and do become brittle. Raw is the way to go with any bone.

And bones are entirely digestible. Daisy once swallowed a country pork rib bone whole, it was a very large bone. Never saw that bone again, ever. She didn't throw it up, she didn't poop it out. She digested it.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Raw food is fine... 

My dogs love backs and I toss Starlite his... and he catches it and devours it in a nano second...

Some dogs have slightly loose stools the first day or two- some never have an issue.


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

thank you both very much!!

Guess I'll have to see how the necks go (when they come in). Hopefully they last longer so that it'll help clean her teeth.

I'm still workin' on my hubby where the raw diet it concerned. It'll come... I think hehe


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

I want to sometimes give my dog some raw chicken but basically give him his dry (Nutro L+R). (the only human food I presently give him is chicken and cooked carrots and the chicken broth I get when I cook the chicken)

I have noticed that the wrappings from my grocery store chicken begin to smell bad in my kitchen trash container within a day or so in warm weather. This is something I can swear didn't happen with chicken wrappings in my trash many years ago.....so this leads me to believe the chicken we buy now is more contaminated with bacteria than years ago.

Can all dogs handle salmonella (or other bacteria) on raw chicken just because they are dogs and have a shorter intestinal system (than say humans?) Is is possible for a dog to get salmonella poisoning?

Do you have to gradually introduce raw chicken into the diet?


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## z&mom (Oct 7, 2006)

I gave Z a raw lamb bone the other day. She enjoyed it, ripped the small chunk of meat out to eat, and gnawed down the top part of the bone (the joint with cartiledge). But I got nervous halfway through when I saw her crunching onto the actual hard bone, so I took it away from her and trashed it. I still have two piece of the bone in the freezer, but I am not sure if I should give it to her.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I've heard people claim that dogs can get sick from salmonella and e-coli but I have yet to read a single study that shows this is true. What I do read is that dogs can carry salmonella and e-coli in their stools and that this is a danger of cross-contamination to humans, yet the dogs themselves don't get sick.

I read one study where researchers injected virulent strains of e-coli and salmonella into dogs, including dogs with underdeveloped immune systems like young puppies, and most of the dogs shed the bacteria in their stools indicating the bacteria was present in their bodies, yet they didn't become ill. In this study, neither salmonella or e-coli was transferred to the handlers.

I've been feeding raw for years. Daisy has never been ill and neither have I or anyone that is close to us. You just have to use your common sense, just like you do when you prepare meat for your own meals. 

I don't know that it's necessary to gradually introduce raw meat. It's my opinion that it's a bigger adjustment for humans than it is for dogs.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

You did the right thing, Z&mom. Always listen to yourself 

I'm not sure what part of the lamb you're talking about so I can't say if it would have been okay for you to let her continue. Is there any meat on the bone still? I'm not sure I see the benefit of just letting a dog chew on a bone without meat ... it is kind of hard on the teeth too. Even marrow bones, after awhile, you take them away because the sounds you start hearing, it can't be good.

Always listen to yourself.


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

Jo Ellen said:


> Next time try giving her the whole back and just letting her be. She knows exactly what to do with it, as you've seen.
> 
> :wave:


Jo Ellen... just wanted to let you know that you were right! Today I gave Geddy a whole chicken back and just let her eat it in peace on the lawn. She ate it a lot more slowly and carefully. Guess she was worried I'd take it away from her yesterday. So from now on... she gets them to herself!!


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I like being right  

It's not so hard feeding raw is it?


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

Jo Ellen said:


> I like being right
> 
> It's not so hard feeding raw is it?



Not so far... but we are only feeding raw bones at this point. I sure do hope to do full raw one day soon. But I need to know a lot more. I ordered the book "the barf diet" by Ian Billinghurst... so I'm impatiently waiting for it to come in :


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Another easy raw meal is a whole raw mackeral. Order a couple from the seafood section in your grocery store. Order the Boston mackeral, specify less than one pound.

Then....throw your dog a fish


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

O'kay I will.... thanks Jo Ellen!!!

btw... why Boston Mackeral?


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

because boston's are smaller. i once didn't specify and got spanish mackeral .... at $25/fish!!!!! :bowl:


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

Thanks... good to know! LOL.. that would be a hard hit to the pocket!!


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

But to be honest, right now I'm a little concerned about the commercial fish. Melamine has been found in fish meal that's been fed to farm-raised fish. That could be mackeral. I'm not sure how to verify or feel confident that the fish is safe .... especially since the FDA is not saying what states received the contaminated fish meal. Doesn't that sound familiar ??


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

Back on the raw chicken. Do you leave the skin and gobs of fat on it?


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I do, Ignutah... dinner with the works


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Since I confessed it in chat anyway... I also relish any chance to feed my dogs whole prey... such as rabbits. Here's some information on the prey model diet:

Why Prey-Model and Not BARF?


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Dogs are Carnivores


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

Well, then Brooks certainly missed out on special meals twice today! 

First when we were at the post office sitting under a tree, Brooks started rolling on his back and I saw that it wasn't just the grass that was enticing him......there were two dead baby birds (sniff!) that obviously had not made the transition from nest to air. I made Brooks come away.

Then this afternoon he was very excited, wanting to go outside. My son let him out just as I came into the backyard from the garage because I heard our champion mouser meowing in a weird way. She had just killed a (darling! sniff sniff) little chipmunk. Brooks came bolting out of the house and headed right for it, and mean person that I am, I made him stay away while my husband got a shovel and picked it up.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Oh no I don't let my dogs eat dead things we find!!!! EWWWW


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

(although my Whippet has managed to get his own *fast food* more than once... but the GRs are not fast enough)


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

Where would you get a rabbit? I guess I was thinking of the baby rabbit my cat killed a few days ago (as I said, she's quite a killing machine) and so thought you meant they ate animals they caught


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Well, the Whippet does from time to time catch his own, but a person can either raise his own rabbits (I can't do that, for a number of reasons. For one, I couldn't where I live. For two, I just plain couldn't kill something I "knew" and raised... not in a million years). It is possible to buy them (dead, already), though. I had a very easy source of them in the UK which is where the idea was introduced to me- I didn't even have to pay for them.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

I don't think I'd make a good "livestock" farmer myself either.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Nope, I can't even eat meat myself...


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm not convinced dogs are true carnivores. 

They have only one essential fatty acid, linoleic acid, that doesn't come from animal tissue. Cats, on the other hand, have two essential fatty acids, the linoleic and something else that starts with an "a." That one, the "a" one, can only be derived from animal tissue. Cats need to consume animal tissue to stay alive. Dogs don't.

It's probably more complicated than that. I'm just not convinced because of that. 

Why do you think dogs are carnivores?


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Well, I do think dogs are designed to eat meat and bones. However, that is just an article I posted as food for thought 

Agree cats are more OBLIGATE carnivores than dogs are.


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

lgnutah said:


> Back on the raw chicken. Do you leave the skin and gobs of fat on it?


thanks! I was wondering that myself.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm wondering about this too. Dogs need fat, it's their primary source of energy, isn't it? But that doesn't really jive with why a dog would gain weight so easily on chicken. Need to check into this!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I don't find that mine do...


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

lgnutah said:


> Can all dogs handle salmonella (or other bacteria) on raw chicken just because they are dogs and have a shorter intestinal system (than say humans?) Is is possible for a dog to get salmonella poisoning?


Here is an interesting article that discusses the digestive system of the dog. 

B-Naturals


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

That's a GREAT link!! Thank you!!! I don't have time to read it all this morning but definitely will this evening.

Industrial strength hydrochloric acid, huh? Wow, no wonder things go in and are never seen again LOL


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