# Off leash and a few general training questions



## Amethystvenom (Apr 8, 2008)

Karma is 14 weeks now. My main question is what do they need to know and when would be a good time to start off leash training? I'm working on Karma with pulling by stopping and making her come back to me or using a "shorter" leash when she pulls. She's getting there but we have our work cut out for us.  

Where I live there isn't a quick place to a fenced in yard so I was curious if anyone did this without a fence. There are many goldens in the neighboorhood and they are making us because they are off leash.  

Random training questions:

She does sit and down pretty well but she does want to get out of the stance quickly. Is there a certain time I should start holding her at these as well?

We've been working on stay for about 2 weeks. I can get around her kennel)maybe a 5 ft. radius) without her moving. However, anything further than that I just cant get her to stay. Any suggestions here besides patience? 

I'm also started to work on bang but it seems she needs to learn lay down first. Is the proper way to get her on her side "lay down"? I put her in the down position, try to move a treat around her and if she gets on her side say "lay down". Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Any tips for this one? 

My last one is one of my favorite tricks I've seen but I have no idea how to do it. It's when you put a treat on their nose, tell them to wait and then say ok and they catch it off their nose. Any videos or how-tos on this one? I'm trying to use "leave it" now but I'm not sure if that's the proper way to say this one. I don't want her to get confused when "leave it" is used to actually leave everything alone. 

Anyway, that's a mouthful and a half but I'd appreciated any tips, tricks or input.  

Thanks as always!
Seth


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

Off leash is a great thing to learn. I don't have a fenced yard but have always started my pups at the local cemetery. It is not fenced but is large. If you have any doubts about recall try using a 50' length of para cord. Practice your "Come" command early and often with lots of high value treats.


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## Judi (Feb 26, 2007)

I think 14 weeks is a bit early to have offleash training.
The dog needs onleash training first.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I think it is a great time to do positive training with Karma. You can teach her a fun version of "heel" or "let's go" by luring her to your left side with teenie tiny high value treat pieces. Hold tiny pieces in your closed left hand, and dispense them until she knows where they are. Then, tell her"heel" or "let's go" is a fun voice". Keep your treat hand low and a bit in back of your leg, so she is in a correct position. Tell her "yes" and be a human pez dispenser, letting her get tiny pieces as you go along- but only when she is walking by your left side. After she gets this, switch treat hands to your right hand. Put your left palm out as a target for her nose. First, teach her when she touches your hand with her nose, she gets a treat. Then, walk with her at your left side; she should get the idea of bumoing your hand with her nose.When she touches your hand, say "yes" and give her the treat piece from your right hand. Eventually, you can go hands free, but it will take a month or so.


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## Penny'smom (Mar 3, 2007)

It's wonderful that you're teaching her to come to you. But, she's just a baby, so you need to keep her attached to you for a couple of reasons:

1. If she ignores your command to 'come', you have to be able to reinforce it by reeling her in to you. As you're gathering the line and bringing her to you, you should be saying, 'Good girl, good come, good girl' in your most cheery voice. And have really good treats. I used little pieces of hot dog. The worse thing you can do is give a command you can't enforce. That teaches her that she can ignore you. Whether you're in a fenced area or not, she has to come when you say come.

2. It keeps her safe from running into traffic or getting lost. 

Use a 10 foot line at first, then go to 15, 20 etc.

True recall takes a couple of years, simply because the dog has to have a certain amount of maturity. Puppies are like kids. How many times haven't you seen a youngster run in the parking lot with mom hollering for Timmy to come back? Timmy just keeps on running, giggling the whole time.

Be patient. The result is worth the wait. Penny was 3 1/2 when we STARTED letting her drag a nylon lead or her retractable leash let all the way out. That was her introduction to "off leash". She was on leash but out of hand. She had been to 4 levels of obedience classes before that starting with puppy class.

Now at 6, she's trustworthy off leash. We can walk beaches, go to parks, just about anywhere we want to let her go in safe situations.

Here's a handy discipline to teach: Puppy is not to get out of car until given the 'release' command. We use 'okay'. We can open the tailgate anywhere, anytime to put in groceries and stuff and Penny will not jump out. She's safe in parking lots, anywhere. Even in the garage at home, she waits for the release command to get out.

There's a lot to teach your pup. Have a great time!


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## ykcamom (Apr 7, 2008)

Riley turned 4 months old on May 16 and I started teaching him to walk at heel pretty much from day one after we got him. He will now walk for up to an hour at heel, but still requires lots of reminders! Mostly he just gets distracted by something he considers interesting on the ground, or by a person or other dog. But for the most part, he will heel quite nicely. 

A couple of days ago, we took him to a soccer field that is enclosed with a chain-link fence. We let him off leash and he played fetch etc. I also practiced the "come" command with him many times. He did really well! Of course, all he really wanted was the treat. If he didn't come at first, I just held up the treat bag and he came a running!!! LOL. I think I'll keep using that area for future training and I hope to be able to walk him off-leash eventually. 

There is a golden down the street from us and that dog will sit in the front yard, unleashed and never leave it. It amazes me, truly. I have no idea how you get a dog to do that!!!

Anyhow, I ramble. Good luck with your training.


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

In a safe area...(out in the open) get her off the lead ASAP!! The best training she can ever have for off lead is when she is a puppy!! The worst thing you can do is let off a adolescent dog off the lead for the first time and expect them to be interested in you in the slightest. That said, I wouldn't let her off in the middle of your neighbourhood...no way, I wouldnt let ANY dog off the lead near roads or in the street, it just isnt worth the risk. Find a nice open area, with very little distractions (not a popular dog walking area) and get some very tasty treats and PRACTISE! You can use a long trailing lead at first but to be honest at such a young age she will not want to stray far from you. Get the practise and hard work done now, it will save you a lot of MUCH harder work when she is older! I had Harry off lead on walks since he was 8 weeks, he has never needed to be on the lead even going through the teenage stage...(only on lead when walking along footpaths/roads of course!)


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## Amethystvenom (Apr 8, 2008)

Thank you all for the responses! I definitely love the idea of keepin treats in my left hand on our walks to get her to stay to the left. I will start implementing this right away.  I do want her leash and off leash trained. I haven't heard any problems of doing both of these as long as the leash is first. 

She's doing much better about house training so we opened up another room to her today. She's not visible in half the room so I'm going to work on "Come" with her in there as well....hoping she gets the message even if she doesn't see me. 

It sounds like their is mixed opinions on when we should start off leash training though. There is a park close to us that's wide open and I'd love to trust her off the leash for a bit. I think she'd stay close to but the question is how would I know she'd come for sure. I'd be more than willing to just try this a few times but the little girl is fast!


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## Amethystvenom (Apr 8, 2008)

Penny'smom said:


> It's wonderful that you're teaching her to come to you. But, she's just a baby, so you need to keep her attached to you for a couple of reasons:
> 
> 1. If she ignores your command to 'come', you have to be able to reinforce it by reeling her in to you. As you're gathering the line and bringing her to you, you should be saying, 'Good girl, good come, good girl' in your most cheery voice. And have really good treats. I used little pieces of hot dog. The worse thing you can do is give a command you can't enforce. That teaches her that she can ignore you. Whether you're in a fenced area or not, she has to come when you say come.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tips in the car. I've been trying to use ok for all the standard "releases" in regular obedience training so this will be a great one to add to the mix!

There's definitely a lot to teach but it makes it so much fun when they finaly pick it up.  This is my first time using clicker training and I absolutely love it for obedience training. So far besides her being her loveable goofy self our training times have been my favorite part of our relationship.


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## Amethystvenom (Apr 8, 2008)

ykcamom said:


> Riley turned 4 months old on May 16 and I started teaching him to walk at heel pretty much from day one after we got him. He will now walk for up to an hour at heel, but still requires lots of reminders! Mostly he just gets distracted by something he considers interesting on the ground, or by a person or other dog. But for the most part, he will heel quite nicely.
> 
> A couple of days ago, we took him to a soccer field that is enclosed with a chain-link fence. We let him off leash and he played fetch etc. I also practiced the "come" command with him many times. He did really well! Of course, all he really wanted was the treat. If he didn't come at first, I just held up the treat bag and he came a running!!! LOL. I think I'll keep using that area for future training and I hope to be able to walk him off-leash eventually.
> 
> ...


She's been walking with us since we got her and she does well. I just want to make sure I'm preventing any bad behavior in the future so we do need to do work on walking at heel. I'm going to start with the treats as the other member said and see how that goes on our walks. 

So far she gets at least 2 walks a day and I usually run with her in the afternoons. I go at her pace but she out paces me already.  She's been so good about running it's really a treat for both of us and it's getting me in much better shape than I've been in forever. 

It amazes me too. I know I could probably go to a professional and get the behavior but I really want to learn all that I can myself. I really enjoy the training side of things and she's such a good learner. There is so much information out there especially on this board so hopefully we'll get there. 

Thanks for the good luck!


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## TiffanyK (Mar 3, 2008)

Great thread, I'm enjoying reading all of the tips and suggestions offered too.


Tiffany


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## Dinsdale (Feb 26, 2008)

I agree with E&T's approach.

Since she was 12-14 weeks or so I regularly walked Clover to a neighborhood school or park early in the morning or late in the eve when there will be few people there and little traffic. I take her leash off, and just start walking, and watch what she does. If she heads away from me, I just call HEY to get her attention. That is usually enough to get her moving towards me. If not, COME HERE will generally do the trick. If you have any question whether your pup will follow you or COME, by all means fill your pocket with snacks. In the rare instance that she seems obstinate, I have her SIT/STAY, and I go to her and give her a little talking to.

She has NEVER tried to bolt, and now at 19 weeks she is getting better off-leash even when there are people around. But there are generally too many distractions when walking down the street for her to be reliable off leash yet. 

One of the biggest problems with using parks and schools is that there is so much trash around that she finds and tries to gulp down before I notice and can get to her.


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## tino4ever (May 12, 2008)

*stay + come or whistle + treat or a cobinaton *

Hello there karma human 
I have never ever had a puppy before that i've raised on my own, but i do have a couple of ideas on how to get her to come 
I definately agree with those who say the longline is a good idea. i think so, especially when you are sighted (no need to say i am not) 
I see you still strugle abit with stay, but you can use that too as a training tool when she gets it. 

make her sit down, stay, walk a couple of feet away, make her stay, then tell her to come, hopefully she comes... and if she does, its birthday+chhristmas+youve won a million dollars in lottery party-time. and if she lieks a spesific treat, us e that only for for the come training 

the trick of a whistleis also nice .. bu then you have to remember bringing hte whistle everywhere .. i use a combination between whistle and voice.
about the whistle.. thee is two ways to teach it.
1. is to blow the whistle, and give her a treat right away so the sound of the whistle becomes "treat" 

the other one is touse a combination of come here + the whistle so she understands the whistle means "come to me!" and give her high praise and treats too 

hope some of htis made any sence 

as the "play-dead"-thing i have no idea how to treach htat one  I have had sme fun with a pupppy who's about 3 months old, just when i met her .. i asked them if i could try make her sit + stay, they said they were never able to do that  First i let them take my dog and just hold his leash while he was sittingand staying at his place...

then igot the puppies attention with some of the best treats my dog knows.. and she liked it too. i made the puppy sit down, reached out my hands and sw that was hwat she was doing .. i held a treat infront of her, and told her to stay. if she then tried to grab the treat from my hand, i said no, made her go down insto sit again, and told her to stay.. i fed her a treat, then another one, and she sayed for abit (dont remember how long.. i also waited abit longer with giving the treat each time then i let her out of the comand.. and i played abit with her .. the ppl who hadh er were astoniched. *laughing*
so i supose a key of the stay-command is to .. when she sits and you walk away (or ith my dog its easier to do a down + stay), is to have her sit + stay, give her a treat, walk away abit, walk bak and give her a treat, walk a few more steps back, and then go back, give her a treat and so on .  
now ennough from me and Tino. I just realized how i am going to teach him how to sit or lay down at a distance.. gotto do the same thingie  yey revelation 

ok, have a wonderful evening / night / morning all 
greeting s from Ranveig and Valentino


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## Amethystvenom (Apr 8, 2008)

Thanks again for the new responses. Since we opened up the room and she can't see us in the living room we've been doing "come" a lot more. She's very responsive and that makes me happy. We have a 16 foot leash and she comes to this as well. As soon as we can take her out and test her we'll see what happens.  It looks like it's going very well so far though!

I started hell with a left handful of treats and that has done wonders for the walking already! She seems very responsive and it doesn't seem like it will take her that long to "get it" at all.  Thanks again for that tip!!!!


All in all training is going better than ever. She can do sit, down, shake and high five very well. She's also doing lay down much better today so I might try "bang" next week or so. It seems like I can get further from her with stay every couple of days so I definitely can't complain there! 

The only one I haven't really figured out at all is the treat on the nose and getting her to catch it when released. If anyone has any tips or ideas on this one it would be much appreciated. Plus any other tips or if I'm missing any I'd be more than happy to listen as well.

Thanks again for all the input!


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## Bogart'sMom (Sep 16, 2005)

The great thing about puppies is that they natrualy want to follow their pack and calling them to "come" when they come anyway makes them learn the behavior, specialy if there are treats involved. I let Bogart run off leash in areas away from roads of course but he stuck with me the whole time and he learn the come comand pretty easely. Now around the house I have him on a long line with a harness on, he actualy thinks he is tied but he just drags the line behind him and sticks right with me. 
I started with Bogart with sit right after I got him, then down also it took a while but he got it for the laying on the side I would call it peng something diffrent then the down comand. I would lure it with a cookie. Maybe you can start clicker training to mark the behavior right when she does it.
All the best,


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## Amethystvenom (Apr 8, 2008)

Bogart'sMom said:


> The great thing about puppies is that they natrualy want to follow their pack and calling them to "come" when they come anyway makes them learn the behavior, specialy if there are treats involved. I let Bogart run off leash in areas away from roads of course but he stuck with me the whole time and he learn the come comand pretty easely. Now around the house I have him on a long line with a harness on, he actualy thinks he is tied but he just drags the line behind him and sticks right with me.
> I started with Bogart with sit right after I got him, then down also it took a while but he got it for the laying on the side I would call it peng something diffrent then the down comand. I would lure it with a cookie. Maybe you can start clicker training to mark the behavior right when she does it.
> All the best,


Thanks for the input. As soon as we get to an area that's no cars and less dogs/humans I'm sure we'll give it a try. It's good to hear they do want to stay close to us this young.

So far the laying on the side is "lay down" but I hate that down is in it too. Thanks for the idea of naming it something else. I'm sure that will help the puppy memory. 


I actually am doing clicker training now and I'm amazed at how much faster they pick things up. I think that's one of the best three bucks we've spent out of many for her so far.  Being the nerd I am I just want to train her best as I can.I'd like to do some home agility things just for fun eventually.


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## Bogart'sMom (Sep 16, 2005)

Bogart was tought all comands with a clicker. I'm traittning with a Rescue group and it's all positive reenforcement training. For Bogart it was all play and fun and my older dog loved to get into our training sessions.
Have you charged the clicker so the pup knows click means treat. Don't click if she doesn't get a treat. Over the next few days just click and treat without her having to do anything. This is charging the clicker. After that she knows click means treat. Now if you teach her to sit as soon as the butt hits the ground click it and treat. After a few tries I'm sure she is going to offer this behavior without you're luring her into the sit. She is going to try to make the clicker work it's cute when they know several behaviors they go through a whole string just to make the clicker click LOL. 
Happy training,


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## Amethystvenom (Apr 8, 2008)

Actually, I found a web site that made me purchase that clicker. I'm actually from bama so training might be a bit different. Old school is all I could say but I had a uncle that had rotts and that's really the only schooling I had. 

I had a vet tech ex-gf that teached me a hard learned rotty bordie mix and oh my, the clicker has been wonderful. Karma understands this fully but only knows a click is a treat and it's been a huge blessing. 


As far as obedience goes, I want the cookie on the snout and make her catch it in the air. I have'nt heard how to do that yet and I'm trying...I'm sure we'll figure it out but I'd love tips.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

Keep at it......but remember, there will come a time when she tests you. You'll say come...and she won't. You don't want that to be in an "open" environment. Make sure that any off leash time is in a secure place....fenced.

The long lead.....30 - 50' and treats are a great way to train "come", but it takes a LONG time for a dog to become 100% reliable on an instant recall. (Notice I said 'dog' and not puppy......LOL)

Sounds like she's a good pup!


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## Amethystvenom (Apr 8, 2008)

She's my life and that's why I asked on the board. It's just baby steps at this point but I want to no what's norm.  It's all bread crumbs at this point but I don't want to make sure she's behind.  


Thanks for the information and reinforcement


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