# Thoughts an Opinions on Golden Retriever and Cocker Spaniel mix



## holycarp (Jan 3, 2021)

You're not going to get too many positive opinions on here about mixed breed breeders. I'm all for rescuing mixes, but these breeders are definitely just in it for the money. Maybe there's the one in a million who actually has generations of clearances on both sides? I also tend not to trust breeders who are willing to ship their puppies in cargo... With that pricing, you could get a purebred golden from any reputable breeder.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

“A Miniature Golden Retriever is mix between a golden retriever, an American or English cocker spaniel, cavalier and sometimes Poodle.

It has been proven by mixing this combination of dogs it can drastically reduce many health problems.”

I wonder if she will give you proof of this claim? I’m sure not.

Just choose one of the breeds in the list instead of a mix. Then choose a responsible breeder. I have a Cavalier King Charles and she’s precious — if you prefer a smaller dog. Cavaliers have their own health issues. Abby is six and okay so far. Research each breed.

You could always adopt/rescue a mixed breed.


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## kristinakaren (Aug 13, 2021)

holycarp said:


> You're not going to get too many positive opinions on here about mixed breed breeders. I'm all for rescuing mixes, but these breeders are definitely just in it for the money. Maybe there's the one in a million who actually has generations of clearances on both sides? I also tend not to trust breeders who are willing to ship their puppies in cargo... With that pricing, you could get a purebred golden from any reputable breeder.


Yeah I agree thank you!


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

If you want a mix breed dog, why not adopt one from a shelter or a Rescue group?

I wouldn't buy a pup from a breeder that is not only misleading buyers but also is unethically breeding mixes with no concerns for either Breed's health.

I'm on my 4th Golden, I've had 2 Cockers, really like both, but I wouldn't want a mix of the two breeds. 

As said above, you can buy a well bred Golden from a Breeder that follows the GRCA CoE for that amount.


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## kristinakaren (Aug 13, 2021)

diane0905 said:


> “A Miniature Golden Retriever is mix between a golden retriever, an American or English cocker spaniel, cavalier and sometimes Poodle.
> 
> It has been proven by mixing this combination of dogs it can drastically reduce many health problems.”
> 
> ...


Yeah idk why they claim that mixing breeds will reduce health problems


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

i encourage you to search this site for existing threads on “comfort retrievers” and “miniature“ to learn more about why buying one of these is not a good idea. Responsible breeders do not breed them…


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Here I was all set and ready to share that I think that having a golden retriever AND a cocker spaniel (as in 2 dogs in your household) is a wonderful idea. 

Golden retrievers are a wonderful breed.

Cocker spaniels are also a very wonderful breed.

Both breeds have a long history of being beloved by families for over a hundred years.

Both have had issues as very popular breeds - health, etc.




















But people mixing the breeds together.... you know why they do it?

It's because over time backyard breeders and puppy mills have been unable to get their hands on purebred dogs where you look at them and you know the quality is there in the careful, selective, and even restrictive breeding behind those dogs. In addition to that, they have dogs who do not have full registration and cannot produce puppies with AKC registration.

So if they attempted to just breed purebred dogs with what they have... people would not pay much for the pups, because the pups would obviously be funny looking or unpapered.

If people were looking for purebred golden retrievers or purebred cocker spaniels, they are looking for dogs who have a certain look + they have AKC registration. People might not register their dogs personally, but they'd have a COW if they paid $$$$ for a pup and breeder did not provide papers for that pup.

Totally different world for mixed bred puppies. 

People looking to get a golden mixed-on-purpose puppy obviously don't really know what a "Set look" for that dog may be or is... other than a vague (looks like a golden retriever puppy forever). They also don't ask too many questions about pedigree or papers, beyond getting all impressed when a breeders babbles about F1 and F2 and whatever else.

I don't even think they consider the morals about breeding a 75 pound dog to a 20 pound dog. Even if the golden retriever is the female portion of the mixed breeding, you are still looking at the disgusting idea of breeding a 15" dog to a 22" girlie. And in many cases with these mixed breeders, the female goldens are as big as male goldens.

Rather than go that route as a dog owner, why not stick to purebred dogs who at least come from people who are breeding the best breeding stock possible (health, characteristics, etc) to produce your baby pup that you will give a good portion of your heart to. There's nothing more wonderful than a well bred golden - just like there is nothing more wonderful than a well-bred cocker spaniel. Both breeds are wonderful on their own - if they come from very careful and good breeders.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

With regards to the OFA stuff, would you do me a favor?

Ask this breeder what she means by scams. 

I'd invite you to spend some time on K9data.





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Pedigree: MBIS MBISS MHIT GCHEX MOTCH AGMCH2 TDGCH Am BISS GCH CH PACH Goldcker A Boat Turn JH WCI UTD TD XP AGSC JTX RE DJ CGN VG Am WCX JH CDX MXP4 MXPB MJP5 MJPS PAX XFP T2BP RA TKP DJ CCA






k9data.com





^^^ Here's a random dog as example.

You can see here that every single possible clearances has not only been done, but posted on OFA. That's a number of years that eyes were checked and posted, including this current year.

The clearances are posted on K9data - and LINKED to OFA (where they have been sent in, verified, and posted).

I have no idea how somebody could use somebody else's OFA clearances for a scam considering these are very easily verified in the way I described above. Would be interesting what this "breeder" comes up with.


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## kristinakaren (Aug 13, 2021)

Megora said:


> With regards to the OFA stuff, would you do me a favor?
> 
> Ask this breeder what she means by scams.
> 
> ...


I agree i was also very confused when she wrote that since all of the information is available online. Just seemed like an excuse that she thought i would believe


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## kristinakaren (Aug 13, 2021)

Megora said:


> Here I was all set and ready to share that I think that having a golden retriever AND a cocker spaniel (as in 2 dogs in your household) is a wonderful idea.
> 
> Golden retrievers are a wonderful breed.
> 
> ...


Thank you! You've brought me back to just wanting a golden haha You're definitely right


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## Ffcmm (May 4, 2016)

I hope this thread has helped steer you away from these comfort/mini golden retrievers. I'm biased but voting for the golden although both are lovely breeds.


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## Rockalicious (Nov 23, 2020)

"There has been a lot of scammers lately. Even my very close friend got scammed. People are taking the dogs information And using it for their benefits." I don't even know what this means. I've spent a considerable amount of time learning how to look at the OFA info and clearances in general, but even though I'm still a newbie, I can smell BS a mile away! And $3-4k for a mixed breed dog when there are so many wonderful mixes in shelters, waiting to be adopted? I'm not judging or forcing any kind of, "Adopt, don't shop!" attitude, but I've just never understand the concept of mixed breeding. I had a friend who had a cocker spaniel, and she had to deal with a debilitating illness that left her bedridden for a couple of years. Her pup never left her side, and was the best therapy she could have had. I think cocker spaniels are great dogs, and I think goldens are great dogs, too...just not particularly when mixed together! Even if you do decide to go with a "designer dog" - it seems you could certainly do better than this breeder who won't even share the AKC info with you.


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## SoCalEngr (Apr 11, 2020)

kristinakaren said:


> I do like the mix because they're slightly smaller that standard golden retrievers and i just love golden retrievers so Mac but I but dont know much about this mix or their temperament.


Like you, I wanted "a golden, but smaller".
Like you, I checked into "miniature goldens".
After careful consideration, I decided that the only dog with the characteristics of a golden, both "pro" and "con", is...a golden.

You need to make your own decision. But, the one site I researched (fairly extensively) had quit using cocker spaniels in their mixed breeding, because it ended up being too "bitey".

While I personally believe that a concerted, dedicated, breeding program could come up with "a smaller golden", the reality is there is, currently, no such program.


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## kristinakaren (Aug 13, 2021)

Rockalicious said:


> "There has been a lot of scammers lately. Even my very close friend got scammed. People are taking the dogs information And using it for their benefits." I don't even know what this means. I've spent a considerable amount of time learning how to look at the OFA info and clearances in general, but even though I'm still a newbie, I can smell BS a mile away! And $3-4k for a mixed breed dog when there are so many wonderful mixes in shelters, waiting to be adopted? I'm not judging or forcing any kind of, "Adopt, don't shop!" attitude, but I've just never understand the concept of mixed breeding. I had a friend who had a cocker spaniel, and she had to deal with a debilitating illness that left her bedridden for a couple of years. Her pup never left her side, and was the best therapy she could have had. I think cocker spaniels are great dogs, and I think goldens are great dogs, too...just not particularly when mixed together! Even if you do decide to go with a "designer dog" - it seems you could certainly do better than this breeder who won't even share the AKC info with you.


I agre


SoCalEngr said:


> Like you, I wanted "a golden, but smaller".
> Like you, I checked into "miniature goldens".
> After careful consideration, I decided that the only dog with the characteristics of a golden, both "pro" and "con", is...a golden.
> 
> ...


being “bitey” was also a concern of mine so this was reassuring. Thank you!


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Megora said:


> With regards to the OFA stuff, would you do me a favor?
> 
> Ask this breeder what she means by scams.
> 
> ...


Totally off the subject, but I have a huge crush on that dog.


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## holycarp (Jan 3, 2021)

Megora said:


> With regards to the OFA stuff, would you do me a favor?
> 
> Ask this breeder what she means by scams.
> 
> ...


Hmm I don't know that I believe this is just a "random" dog you came across


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## GoldenGirlie (Aug 18, 2021)

I was looking to or a golden-poodle variety because I wanted a smallish dog. I was able to find a breeder in western MI. Who bread smaller goldens. Dad was 45# and Mon was 50. Mine should end up in that area.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

ArkansasGold said:


> Totally off the subject, but I have a huge crush on that dog.


That’s a whole can of alphabet soup!


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

If you want a mix, try a shelter or rescue. There are reputable breeders that breed on the small end of the standard if you want a little smaller. There is no guarantee on size with mixes. Could be anywhere from the size of a larger golden to the size of a smaller cocker.


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## holycarp (Jan 3, 2021)

Smaller end of goldens tend to be more field lines right? And I'd guess that someone who wants a smaller golden is not looking for that.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

holycarp said:


> Smaller end of goldens tend to be more field lines right? And I'd guess that someone who wants a smaller golden is not looking for that.


Not necessarily. Mine are from show lines and are smaller. Look for breeders that do things like obedience and agility.Many competitors like smaller dogs.


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## holycarp (Jan 3, 2021)

Abeille said:


> Not necessarily. Mine are from show lines and are smaller. Look for breeders that do things like obedience and agility.Many competitors like smaller dogs.


Oh interesting, I figured the whole point of conformation lines was to meet the 'standard', which I guess is sorta average by definition.

You're absolutely right with the latter. I have an agility prospect and I don't expect her to be very big at all. But working dogs do tend to have field lines in their pedigrees right?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

If you want something smaller though... why don't you get a spaniel? 

You do not HAVE to get a golden retriever. 

There's a lot of people who are convinced they want goldens, but their list of needs sound an awful lot like they want something else that already exists in a purebred form- which you can get from a good breeder. 

You can scrape the bottom of the barrel by buying a cheap sort-of purebred dog from somebody who makes smaller goldens, but beware of what they are breeding. 

A good example is earlier this evening, I let out a huge breath of exasperation over a brand new genetic condition which breeders are getting their panties in a bunch about.... but which you read the small print details.... there are only 4 pups out there who legit have this condition, and they came from somebody who did a father/daughter breeding to make those puppies. And odds are, that was the least of that breeder's mistakes when selecting dogs for breeding.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

holycarp said:


> Oh interesting, I figured the whole point of conformation lines was to meet the 'standard', which I guess is sorta average by definition.


Technically speaking - they meet the breed standard. There is a 1" allowance either way. 

Many boys in obedience can be about 22-23" - which still meets the breed standard. 

The difference is in jump heights. If your dog is 23" on the dot - he can jump 22/44 (3 broad jump boards). If he is 23.5 - he has to jump 24/48 (4 broad jump boards). 

I expect that people looking for something mixed with cocker spaniels are actually looking for something that is more springer spaniel sized.


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## holycarp (Jan 3, 2021)

Megora said:


> Technically speaking - they meet the breed standard. There is a 1" allowance either way.
> 
> Many boys in obedience can be about 22-23" - which still meets the breed standard.
> 
> ...


Oh sure, I interpreted 'smaller' to mean below the breed standard. And you can definitely have agility or field lines well below. There's a 4-5 year old golden jumping 16 right now with a MACH.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

holycarp said:


> Oh sure, I interpreted 'smaller' to mean below the breed standard. And you can definitely have agility or field lines well below. There's a 4-5 year old golden jumping 16 right now with a MACH.


Is he jumping preferred?

To jump 16", I think the dog would have to be 18" or shorter. That's yucky short for a boy golden.

We use 16" as a warm up jump - especially if the dogs have not jumped in a while (like because of covid) and it's basically nothing for my guys to jump over.


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## holycarp (Jan 3, 2021)

Megora said:


> Is he jumping preferred?


No actually. Pedigree: MACH Flickering Fire's Faith Trust 'N Pixie Dust MJB OAP AJP MXF NFP T2B2 ACT1 CGCA CGCU TKI, GRCA Agility Hall of Fame
I mean this is nowhere near common. But I believe an inch or two below the standard and 50-55 lbs. is quite common.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

holycarp said:


> No actually. Pedigree: MACH Flickering Fire's Faith Trust 'N Pixie Dust MJB OAP AJP MXF NFP T2B2 ACT1 CGCA CGCU TKI, GRCA Agility Hall of Fame
> I mean this is nowhere near common. But I believe an inch or two below the standard and 50-55 lbs. is quite common.


Oh, that's a girlie. 

She's little- but not that little. 

I know her owners bred her to a boy at the high end of the breed standard to make nice pups who can do anything.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

holycarp said:


> Oh sure, I interpreted 'smaller' to mean below the breed standard. And you can definitely have agility or field lines well below. There's a 4-5 year old golden jumping 16 right now with a MACH.


Both of mine are within standard but on the small end. I constantly get size compliments. My main goal is obedience. My boy is 22 inches so he’s small but within standard. He doesn’t have to jump as high as a dog over 23 inches.


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

If you want a spaniel, get a Clumber. Cockers bite way too much. There is an amazing Golden breeder who also breeds Clumbers. Heck, get one of each!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

GoldenDude said:


> If you want a spaniel, get a Clumber. Cockers bite way too much. There is an amazing Golden breeder who also breeds Clumbers. Heck, get one of each!


Clumbers are heavier dogs than golden retrievers...and kind of slower mentally. 

Believe it or not... purebred cocker spaniels from good breeders are wonderful dogs. I know of many through obedience training. They have the same temperament and eagerness please that goldens have. I know of a little girlie who with a very uncertain and green owner/handler got her CDX very easily. I also know of others with a different owner who were excellent tracking dogs.

I've never met a cocker spaniel that is snappy or has that pretty typical miniature poodle temperament. 

I have met many miniature poodles who are truly awful dogs. Many of these miniature goldens have been mixed with miniature poodles - and that should be a concern to folks looking for that kind of mutt. 

Also, have met many goldens who are questionable in temperament. This includes some definite dog aggression. Sometimes it's shocking where it shows up. <= It's why people need to be more discriminate and careful when looking for a puppy. Be aware that some lines can definitely be problematic.


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

Megora said:


> Clumbers are heavier dogs than golden retrievers...and kind of slower mentally.
> 
> Believe it or not... purebred cocker spaniels from good breeders are wonderful dogs. I know of many through obedience training. They have the same temperament and eagerness please that goldens have. I know of a little girlie who with a very uncertain and green owner/handler got her CDX very easily. I also know of others with a different owner who were excellent tracking dogs.
> 
> ...


I find Clumbers superior to cockers, but that's just me. My parents owned cockers but I really like Clumbers better. Although, I will say that Clumbers make Goldens look like total amateurs when it comes to shedding.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

GoldenDude said:


> I find Clumbers superior to cockers, but that's just me. My parents owned cockers but I really like Clumbers better. Although, I will say that Clumbers make Goldens look like total amateurs when it comes to shedding.


There's no comparison between the breeds though?

You are trying to compare a 30 pound dog with an 85 pound dog! LOL. Most of the clumbers I've seen at conformation shows are blobs compared to most other sporting breeds.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

I think it all depends on the individual dog. I owned a very well mannered miniature poodle, we got him when my youngest was 4. I also had the vet tell me that he was the best one he ever had in his office. My older daughter was bitten by a cocker spaniel when she was 3 and needed stitches for it. There is a Clumber locally that does obedience and is a great dog.


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

Megora said:


> There's no comparison between the breeds though?
> 
> You are trying to compare a 30 pound dog with an 85 pound dog! LOL. Most of the clumbers I've seen at conformation shows are blobs compared to most other sporting breeds.


85 pounds would be the absolute top end of the weight scale for a male. If you're seeing Clumbers that big, especially a bitch, it would be a sad indication that conformation Clumbers are going the way of Labs. I'm often horrified to see how people think an obese Lab is a good representative of the breed. Obesity is not a trait that should be cherished in any breed.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Abeille said:


> I think it all depends on the individual dog. I owned a very well mannered miniature poodle, we got him when my youngest was 4. I also had the vet tell me that he was the best one he ever had in his office. My older daughter was bitten by a cocker spaniel when she was 3 and needed stitches for it. There is a Clumber locally that does obedience and is a great dog.


All the miniature poodles in obedience are snappy dogs.  Smart, but not nice dogs. 

Have honestly never met a mean cocker. I have always loved the breed since our neighbors way back had a byb cocker spaniel that we got to petsit for her every day (she worked). I literally thought that was my dog.  

All of the American cockers I've seen in both conformation and obedience (ie nicely bred ones) are what the breed should be. I have seen English cockers here and there, but not been impressed with what I see in obedience with them (could be trainer error too). 

Clumbers - have only seen in conformation, and they are like miniature St. Bernards, I swear.  The last time I walked past a big entry of them, I turned and looked back and literally thought those were dogs that could not run across somebody's front yard, much less be running ahead and flushing birds.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Megora said:


> All the miniature poodles in obedience are snappy dogs.  Smart, but not nice dogs.
> 
> Have honestly never met a mean cocker. I have always loved the breed since our neighbors way back had a byb cocker spaniel that we got to petsit for her every day (she worked). I literally thought that was my dog.
> 
> ...


Right....a lot goes into training even the best bred dogs. My poodle was a BYB puppy. Actually, an oops litter but she loved getting updates on the puppies. He was a nice little dog for my kids.

The cocker in question was probably BYB and not raised the best. He left a gaping hole in my daughter's arm. I just haven't seen a lot of nice ones around here. I know they exist. 

Are Clumbers shown overweight though? I know some breeds are and I just don't understand it. This particular one seems to have plenty of energy for playing obedience.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Abeille said:


> Are Clumbers shown overweight though? I know some breeds are and I just don't understand it. This particular one seems to have plenty of energy for playing obedience.


Not 100% sure - the ones I saw at this show had a big entry + showed around the same time as goldens so I got a good look at them. 

I don't know if they were obese like labs can be. Just that they are definitely big dogs. Heavier than goldens. 

With goldens being a movement breed - it's tough to let them gain too much weight without it showing in a rolling gait. 



> The cocker in question was probably BYB and not raised the best. He left a gaping hole in my daughter's arm. I just haven't seen a lot of nice ones around here. I know they exist.


Around here they are a bit like Irish Setters. People know them when they see them, but they are very rare. You are more likely to see a cockapoo. I've only seen cockers through showing or training. Have set up with cocker people at shows a few times, there's one person who I keep meaning to get her name - she's a big breeder/show person from Wisconsin and her dogs are wonderful. She had this situation happen where she set up her grooming area with her dogs in their crates - and walked away to go grab more stuff from her car. Came back in to find that somebody had come in and shoved all her stuff out of the space she'd chosen. Her dog crates were knocked over on their sides with the dogs still inside. And they were just fine - and kinda adapting to living life sideways. 😶


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Megora said:


> Around here they are a bit like Irish Setters. People know them when they see them, but they are very rare. You are more likely to see a cockapoo. I've only seen cockers through showing or training. Have set up with cocker people at shows a few times, there's one person who I keep meaning to get her name - she's a big breeder/show person from Wisconsin and her dogs are wonderful. She had this situation happen where she set up her grooming area with her dogs in their crates - and walked away to go grab more stuff from her car. Came back in to find that somebody had come in and shoved all her stuff out of the space she'd chosen. Her dog crates were knocked over on their sides with the dogs still inside. And they were just fine - and kinda adapting to living life sideways. 😶


I haven't seen a purebred cocker in a long time. For a while they were hugely popular around here and most had a poor temperament. Doodles have a big following in this area right now. Doesn't help that the local service dog training place is always out showing them off. I've actually had people say that mine are JUST goldens. 😂 Yes, yes they are. Thank you for noticing.


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