# How long to wait? (stubborn eating)



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

My take is that a dog will not starve himself just for a dollop of yogurt. I would want to make sure that all is 100% medically. Perhaps it is a reaction to the benadryl ( although I doubt it). I would be concerned about a reaction to the flea and tick chemicals. Can I ask why you would double dose on them? Having had a dog that battled a life threatening autoimmune disease, I am so wary and careful of all chemicals they come in contact with. We do use heartworm meds, but at a 35 day schedule and NEVER within days of topical flea and tick meds ( which personally I use as little as possible) .

As far as an appetite stimulant, canned tripe is something dogs go crazy for and is very healthy for them. However, I would urge you to get to the root of his non eating issue.


----------



## firedancer722 (Apr 12, 2010)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> My take is that a dog will not starve himself just for a dollop of yogurt. I would want to make sure that all is 100% medically. Perhaps it is a reaction to the benadryl ( although I doubt it). I would be concerned about a reaction to the flea and tick chemicals. Can I ask why you would double dose on them? Having had a dog that battled a life threatening autoimmune disease, I am so wary and careful of all chemicals they come in contact with. We do use heartworm meds, but at a 35 day schedule and NEVER within days of topical flea and tick meds ( which personally I use as little as possible) .
> 
> As far as an appetite stimulant, canned tripe is something dogs go crazy for and is very healthy for them. However, I would urge you to get to the root of his non eating issue.


Well, Charlie has been scratching almost non-stop for weeks. I found a flea on him at the place where we used to live and then when we moved, I found another flea on him - even though he was on Frontline Plus. I took him to the vet on Saturday because he would not stop scratching and I feared he would get another staph infection or a hot spot. I had been giving him 50 mg of Benadryl 2x daily but it didn't seem to help, then I switched and gave him 10 mg Zyrtec 1x daily, and I thought it was helping a bit but then he started scratching again. I took him to the vet on Saturday and she recommended we switch him to Advantage Multi as perhaps the Frontline is not getting rid of the fleas. Since we live in a tick-prone area, she said it would be fine to do Frontline Plus for ticks but to wait a couple of days before doing it. Also, she said it can't hurt for some added flea protection as well, since Frontline is in the oil glands, and Advantage is in the blood stream. She's also the one that increased his benadryl dosage and frequency. I am going to call today and ask them what to do... i can't imagine that he just all the sudden doesn't like the food. This dog eats tiny balls of lint for heaven's sake. :uhoh:


----------



## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Sorry, I can't remember what food you swapped him to...what's he eating now? 

There could be a few things regarding why he's not eating. It could very well be the meds in his system, but you said he was a picky eater before, too. Was he eating the kibble with the yogurt on it when he was on all these meds?

In my mind, you've got a few options:

1) Keep up with the tough love. He could be wanting extras added to his food and is trying to play hardball with you until you "crack" and add something to his food to make it more appetizing. (He's probably remembering the greek yogurt!)

2) You can keep adding things on top to help his appetite. I think some dogs just don't find dog food all that appealing and need a little extra help to make it more appetitizing. My old border collie rarely ate his dog food and was underweight most of his life because of it. We tried different formulas and he only started gobbling it down when we added a tbsp of wet dog food to it (Go! Brand food).

Personally, and this is just MY opinion, I don't think there's anything wrong with adding a little extra topping to a meal - as long as the dog is at a good weight. For cheaper options, you can add tuna juice from a can (as long as it's tuna packed in water, not oil) to the kibble if you're making yourself a tuna or salmon sandwhich for lunch or supper. Crack a raw egg in there a few times a week and he'll probably get a shiny, lustrous coat, too. If your food comes in a wet dog food form, add a tbsp of that to his meals and really mix it in with the kibble so he has to eat all of it, not just eat the wet stuff off the top. If you're only adding a tbsp or two a day, one can will probably last you close to a week.

3) Would be to swap dog foods until you find one he likes. I don't think this is a viable option since Charlie has such bad allergies. I'd probably stick with the food you have now and give it 6-8 weeks to see if it's helped with allergies. If it hasn't, then maybe try swapping food but for now I think your best bet would be giving this food enough time to see if it helps Charlie out.

If Charlie were my dog...here's what I'd try for the next week or so. In the morning, a looong walk before breakfast. If he usually gets fed around 8am, I'd be leashing him up at 6:30 and walking him for an hour at a brisk pace. No stopping to smell the roses! Work work work to get his mind thinking and his body moving. Back at the house by 7:30 and a half hour wait til breakfast. At 8am, I'd give him his full days portion - if he usually eats 2 cups a day, one cup morning and night - I'd give him the full 2 cups with a topper for breakfast. Raw egg some mornings, salmon/tuna juice the days I was packing myself a salmon or tuna sandwhich for lunch. I'd cut out all treats during the day and use pieces of kibble for training treats. Rest of the day carrying on in the normal schedule, but no supper. Next morning, same thing. 

Eventually, you could try to weed out the topping on his breakfast but, like I said, I personally don't think the topping is a big deal. Doing it ONCE a day will save you money and make Charlie extra hungry for his breakfast since there's no more supper. Sometimes feeding twice a day just doesn't work for some dogs. The long walk in the morning will help stimulate his appetite. A long walk PLUS no supper the night before? He'll probably be a lot more interested in his food. He might even be happy to eat his breakfast without the topping.

Hope this helps!


----------



## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

firedancer722 said:


> Well, Charlie has been scratching almost non-stop for weeks. I found a flea on him at the place where we used to live and then when we moved, I found another flea on him - even though he was on Frontline Plus. I took him to the vet on Saturday because he would not stop scratching and I feared he would get another staph infection or a hot spot. I had been giving him 50 mg of Benadryl 2x daily but it didn't seem to help, then I switched and gave him 10 mg Zyrtec 1x daily, and I thought it was helping a bit but then he started scratching again. I took him to the vet on Saturday and she recommended we switch him to Advantage Multi as perhaps the Frontline is not getting rid of the fleas. Since we live in a tick-prone area, she said it would be fine to do Frontline Plus for ticks but to wait a couple of days before doing it. Also, she said it can't hurt for some added flea protection as well, since Frontline is in the oil glands, and Advantage is in the blood stream. She's also the one that increased his benadryl dosage and frequency. I am going to call today and ask them what to do... i can't imagine that he just all the sudden doesn't like the food. This dog eats tiny balls of lint for heaven's sake. :uhoh:


It sounds as though he might have a flea allergy. You can get Capstar from entirelypets.com for a very reasonable price. Capstar can safely be used in combination with Frontline Plus. Capstar starts killing fleas within 20 minutes of their taking the pill and continues to kill for 24 hours. I would also treat your carpets with borax (found in the laundry det aisle at the grocery store for less than $5/box). Sprinkle the borax down, work into the carpet with a broom, leave down for 2-3 days and then vacuum up. Repeat in a few days. That will kill the fleas that are in the carpet. If you see one flea on your dog, there are likely at least 20-30 more in your carpets.

I think it's very likely he is reacting to the benedryl, since it can be an appetite suppressant.


----------



## firedancer722 (Apr 12, 2010)

Thanks all... 

After consulting with my vet a few weeks ago about Charlie's allergy issue, she felt that if he had not responded at all to the grain-free, fish based diet after almost 8 weeks, that he most likely did not have food allergies. However, she didn't rule it out either, but felt it was much more likely to be fleas and/or environmental (pollen, grass, dust mites, etc). Therefore, after much consultation and research and talking with my vet, who I trust completely, I decided to put Charlie on Eukanuba Lamb & Rice for Large Breed Adults. As I was transitioning him off the Acana, he actually nosed around the Acana and just ate the Eukanuba, so I know he liked it better at that point! For several days since, he ate the Euk just fine. But it seems like since the Benadryl increase and Advantage Multi / Frontline Plus, he just hasn't eaten like he did. I HAVE been giving him about 9 mini dog treats a day though to get him to take his Benadryl (3 tablets 3 times daily) and I usually put a dab of peanut butter on each one to make the med stick. He scarfs those down really fast! I hope he isn't thinking he can just eat dog treats and PB all day! Not gonna happen! I think I'll just get a small thing of his yogurt and put a bit on top of supper and see if that encourages him to eat more. 

Also, I know that with all his allergy issues and the sweltering heat here in the mid-south, he has not been getting enough outside exercise. I know it and he knows it, but honestly, I try to play with him outside in our backyard, tossing the ball, wrestling around, but after 10 minutes, he heads to the door and waits to be let inside. I think we'll both be glad when this heat wave is over. Any tips on how to tire him out more inside?? 

I am going to try that Borax thing in the carpets, but my concern is that the carpet is in my bedroom only and one of my roommates' bedrooms. The rest of the house is either ceramic tile or hardwoods. I am concerned about whether or not the dog and cats can walk on the carpets before I vacuum and still be safe? I know my cats are always licking their paws and washing their face, etc... 

Thanks again ... I really appreciate the input / suggestions.

Candace

Thanks


----------



## kgiff (Jul 21, 2008)

I've had dogs Not eat right after receiving their flea/tick treatment. It's usually resolved itself in a day or two, but that is a possibility. 

Re: Benedryl - I've never has a reaction to benedryl resulting in loss of appetite. I also don't give the max dosage (3, 3xs per day) unless absolutely necessary - I have a dog highly allergic to pine and we typically spend two weeks in Maine surrounded by pine trees. 

I'm also not keen on daily long term use of Benedryl because there can be some side effects.

You're doing everything right as far as feeding and I also believe a dog will not starve himself. 

If things don't resolve themselves, I'd consider seeing an allergist. In the long run on trip to the allergist will be cheaper than making recurring visits to the vet got the same issue - I know this from personal experience


----------



## firedancer722 (Apr 12, 2010)

Just wanted to update and say that Charlie is back to his normal "eat everything I can possibly get" self.  I put a measly tsp of yogurt on his food yesterday evening and this morning and he gobbled it up. Crazy dog.  One thing I DID change was the number of treats I'm giving him to take his meds. Instead of three separate mini treats (1 for each pill), I just took one treat, lined the pills up on top and spread peanut butter on top of that. Worked perfectly. 

On a side note, I was always one of those people who thought people shouldn't spoil their children... i never voiced my opinion out loud, but it was always in the back of my mind. NOW... I can see why people do it. I swore I would not spoil Charlie, but when he looks at me with those big brown eyes and goofy grin, I melt into a big puddle of mush. I can only imagine what it must be like with your own child! LOL :


----------



## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Well, I know when I have taken an antihistamine that I get a really nasty taste in my mouth. Maybe that's what he's experiencing and the yogurt helps get rid of it?

The borax should be just fine. I have 4 cats along with the three dogs and it's supposed to be safe, though you don't want them breathing the powder in as you are sprinkling it. Fleas live in carpeting and on dog beds and cloth furniture. I think that if you go ahead and just treat the carpeted areas a couple of times, you will see improvement.

I know all of this because Danny is allergic to fleas. One bite and he breaks out in a rash and can't stop itching. That's why I keep the Capstar on hand. If he starts scratching, I give him a Capstar and usually the scratching stops within a day or two. But sometimes I have to keep up the benedryl for a week or so and there are times where I have to put him on antibiotics, too.


----------



## firedancer722 (Apr 12, 2010)

fostermom said:


> Well, I know when I have taken an antihistamine that I get a really nasty taste in my mouth. Maybe that's what he's experiencing and the yogurt helps get rid of it?
> 
> The borax should be just fine. I have 4 cats along with the three dogs and it's supposed to be safe, though you don't want them breathing the powder in as you are sprinkling it. Fleas live in carpeting and on dog beds and cloth furniture. I think that if you go ahead and just treat the carpeted areas a couple of times, you will see improvement.
> 
> I know all of this because Danny is allergic to fleas. One bite and he breaks out in a rash and can't stop itching. That's why I keep the Capstar on hand. If he starts scratching, I give him a Capstar and usually the scratching stops within a day or two. But sometimes I have to keep up the benedryl for a week or so and there are times where I have to put him on antibiotics, too.


Thanks! I have been reading about Capstar, and what frustrates me is that Charlie should no longer have ANY adult fleas on him, but he is still scratching like crazy. How is this possible?! I bought some borax yesterday because I thought even if we all have to sleep on the couch (well Charlie always wants to sleep on the floor), I'm going to use this stuff on my bedroom carpets. Last night I started washing all sorts of 'fabric' items. I washed all of charlie's plush toys in super hot water with some borax added to the wash. They're now in a plastic bag tied up. Charlie doesn't have a dog bed since he prefers a cool tile floor to anything but I'm going to wash my bedroom throw rugs tonight while I let the borax settle into the carpets. The vet tech I talked to on the phone said that I could put things like decorative pillows (that I can't wash) in the freezer for a couple of hours and it should kill any fleas inside them. 

What is so strange is that I really see NO evidence of fleas anywhere. Not in my bedroom, not on my cats, not even on Charlie; however, I have two scabbed bites on my legs but I'm not sure if they are from something outdoors or fleas. This is SOO frustrating, but I am vacuuming, cleaning, and laundering like a mad woman in hopes that my poor dog will stop scratching himself to bits.


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

It really sounds like to me that Charlie has an environmental allergy, you've eliminated the fleas and put him on a food that should not cause an allergic reaction, so environmental is the only thing left. Pollen, dust mites, certain types of grass, etc., all of which you really can't avoid.

I hope you find a solution for the itching, and I'm glad he's eating again.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Even if the fleas are gone, if he has a flea allergy he could well be miserable and itching because of the bites they've left behind ( think us and mosquitoes). I would bathe him with some Micro Tek by eqyss. It gives instant relief for itching and also helps heal skin issues.


----------



## Lennap (Jul 9, 2010)

I have really bad contact/skin allergies and there are times that once my skin starts reacting, it just won't stop. I can take benadryl until I am blue in the face, the hives and itchies just keep coming. The only thing that breaks the cycle are steroids. 

I know it's not an ideal solution, but sometimes you just have to do it!

One more thing - I learned with my last dog that treats are not necessary to give when giving a pill. I used to give her pills in peanut butter, but then she started bulking up a bit - so my b/f taught me how to give a pill dry. It works great! Once I'm done I of course give lots of love and attention and play.

Remy is on pulse antibiotic treatments, meaning he is one week on, one week off. At medication time, he generally runs up to me and plops into a sit with his tail at my feet and his nose in the air ready for his pills - even during the off weeks! Of course we still play.


----------



## firedancer722 (Apr 12, 2010)

I think you all are right... my poor boy must be highly allergic to something environmental. I just wish we could find a medication that can help him get some relief from the itchies. So far, even the max dose of Benadryl my vet prescribed 6 days ago is not helping but maybe 30-40%. He is still scratching and gnawing at his poor hips and tail base. I am going to give him a bath tonight and put some of the Virbac ResiSOOTHE lotion on him. The vet recommended it and I paid over 12 bucks for it so I'm gonna use that for now. I just wish I had the money right now to get him allergy tested. My vet works in the same office as an excellent vet dermatologist, so we're saving up for a consult / testing! I will get to the bottom of this eventually!!! 

Thanks for all the tips and suggestions. They are much much appreciated!

Candace


----------



## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Fleas spend 90% of their time in the carpets and on the furniture. If you see one on your dog, you can bet there are a lot more in the carpets. You have to break the cycle of fleas, they are continuously hatching. Since you actually saw fleas on him, I would follow through on that idea before trying a ton of other things. Use the borax for a couple of weeks. It works by dehydrating the fleas, which in turn will kill them. That is why you are supposed to leave it down for 2-3 days before vacuuming it up. 

By the way, chewing at the base of the tail and hips is a classic sign of fleas.

I have had to use steroids on Danny in the past before I figured out what his issue was and have learned how to deal with it effectively.


----------



## firedancer722 (Apr 12, 2010)

fostermom said:


> Fleas spend 90% of their time in the carpets and on the furniture. If you see one on your dog, you can bet there are a lot more in the carpets. You have to break the cycle of fleas, they are continuously hatching. Since you actually saw fleas on him, I would follow through on that idea before trying a ton of other things. Use the borax for a couple of weeks. It works by dehydrating the fleas, which in turn will kill them. That is why you are supposed to leave it down for 2-3 days before vacuuming it up.
> 
> By the way, chewing at the base of the tail and hips is a classic sign of fleas.
> 
> I have had to use steroids on Danny in the past before I figured out what his issue was and have learned how to deal with it effectively.


That's sort of what I thought (about the chewing at the tail and hips)... I am going to do the borax thing immediately when I get home. I'll get those little buggers!!!


----------



## firedancer722 (Apr 12, 2010)

One other quick thing... what about my mattress and bedding? Charlie doesn't sleep in bed with me but he does get up there at night and in the mornings for a cuddle and my cats sleep on the bed all the time, so I know it's bound to not be flea-free. :yuck: I have a regular innerspring mattress and then a memory foam topper that is a separate piece on top. The topper has a cotton cover on it that unzips. Then, I have a regular mattress pad over that before my fitted sheet. How do I go about making sure there are no fleas in my bedding / mattress!? I hope I don't have to get rid of my foam thingie!! I love it! And do I need to put borax in my suitcases and things too?? Stuff that is stored in the closet (on the floor)? 

Also, and I know this is gross, but I keep feeling like I have things biting me and crawling on my head and sometimes neck and back.  *sigh* please don't think I'm unclean or anything... I take showers EVERY DAY. Is it even possible that fleas could get on my head?? I am so grossed out by that, but I have been itching too. I don't know what to do!!!!!!!


----------



## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I think that if you treat the animals and the carpets (and do the carpets a couple of time) you will get it under control. I wouldn't worry about your bedding unless you have a major infestation, which it doesn't sound like you have.


----------



## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Sympathies from me - that sounds brutal to go through. I am so happy I live in a flea-free province and don't need to worry about those suckers.


----------



## firedancer722 (Apr 12, 2010)

Ranger said:


> Sympathies from me - that sounds brutal to go through. I am so happy I live in a flea-free province and don't need to worry about those suckers.


They don't have fleas in Canada??!! This is just ANOTHER reason why Canada rocks and why I need to move there.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I would wash my mattress pad in hot water. When you mentioned that, I remembered the 60 minutes report on the prevalence of bed bugs. I was shocked ( and horrified ). To give relief for his itchy skin I can't recommend Micro-tek shampoo highly enough. You may have to bathe him every few days until he heals. www.eqyss.com


----------



## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

firedancer722 said:


> They don't have fleas in Canada??!! This is just ANOTHER reason why Canada rocks and why I need to move there.


Oh, CANADA has them...just not my particular province! It's too cold here in the winter for many things to live. Thus our lack of venomous spiders, snakes, bugs, etc!


----------



## firedancer722 (Apr 12, 2010)

Ranger said:


> Oh, CANADA has them...just not my particular province! It's too cold here in the winter for many things to live. Thus our lack of venomous spiders, snakes, bugs, etc!


Well, SIGN ME UP. I hate bugs, spiders, fleas, and any other creepy crawly things!!


----------

