# Actually a decent European breeder?



## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Maybe. 
I would be asking some very pointed questions about their dogs prior to taking a puppy. Just my opinion, but I would look elsewhere.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Hmmm...tough.
First, I have not looked though every dog, but it seem most if not all only have a practitioner heart clearance. There are three types, practitioner, specialist, cardiologist. The GRCA has the cardiologist listed in the breeders code of ethics due to the heart issues in our breed. Pairing that with the fact that a substantial percentage of European breeders do not do heart clearances at all would worry me.

Next, again based on the few dogs listed on the site does uncover the potential for missing clearances. As an example, Bianca Pedigree: Kind Pure Spirit of Clear Passion shows a prelim elbow on K9data which is not a clearance shows only an out of date eye exam that should be done annually and a deficient heart clearance in OFFA http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1495361#animal? Now they show a PennHIP, which you will have to learn how to read hard copy and request to see it in person as PennHIP is not independently verifiable. I understand why some breeders like PennHIP but it would be nice if they paid the small recording fee to have OFFA record it on the public database. The lack of the elbow clearance is really concerning as OFFA is the only elbow clearance in North America. So, where is it? She is listed on the website so, I assume she is a breeding dog since she is listed there and of breeding age. 

Clearance history on European background dogs is tough to understand. Many different schemes in many different countries who have different ideas of passing and what should be tested. For example hearts are one of our core clearances in the US but, not regularly done in many European countries. Grade 1 elbows are not given a passing grade by OFFA in the US but BVA in the UK does count them as breedable. Some breeders do not like the OFFA scheme for hips as it is a single X-ray view, but PennHIP and BVA do not allow you a way to independently verify clearances and those scheme are more difficult for a buyer to understand than the Fair, Good, Excellent rating by the OFFA. So, I suggest reading up, researching and if you can get registered names of actual puppy parents. We can help by double checking and suggesting questions to ask or letting you know if thing don't add up.

A note on championships, the International and National Champion designations earned in the US are not a competition based award. That means they do not have to beat any other dog to win this and many dogs will earn the title each show weekend. I show in the international circuit so, I am not knocking it. I really like the laid back atmosphere and the written critiques. It is designed really for rare breeds who may not be able to compete elsewhere . A Grand Sieger, Best in Show or Group One win does have value. Just be aware that these Championships are closer to a CCA and are not the same as a UKC championship and are no where near the level of an AKC or Eng. Championship. In fact, I have never seen a Golden without a disqualifying fault get one of these two awards, though I have heard of it. 

Good luck!


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

Only practioner heart clearances. A big red flag. A lot of missing elbow clearances. A number of eye clearances that are out of date, although they may have been done and not submitted to OFA. 

The dogs have PennHip clearances, but as PennHip does not have a public database it is impossible to verify independently. Their girl Misty has a PennHip of 40%, meaning that 60% of golden retrievers have better hips than she does. My understanding of PennHip, is, it is recommended that dogs with hip scoring 50% or better be bred.

Almost all of their dogs, both male and female, are ichthyosis carriers, with one Meela being affected and one clear by parentage. If 2 clear parents are bred, all puppies with be clear. If a clear/carrier pair is bred no puppies will be affected, but some will be carriers. If a 2 carriers are bred, 25% of pups would be clear and 25% would be affected and 50% would be carriers. If a carrier and an affected were bred every puppy would be a carrier and, I think, 50% would be affected. As the parents of the puppies are not listed it would be hard to know whether the puppy is likely to be affected or not. They do not seem to use outside studs.

Charging extra for full registration, I believe is against AKC rules, but I could be mistaken.

This is not a breeder I would purchase a puppy from.

If you are willing to travel, there are a number of English style golden breeders here in Ontario, that do do everything right. The english style is very popular in Southern Ontario and the show rings in Canada. 

I would recommend Bruce from Goldnote. They are about an hour and a half north of Toronto.

Golden Retrievers Ontario | Puppies | English Cream | British Goldens

Others to look at,
Dreamkeeper Goldens - Home of Exquisite English-style Golden Retrievers
Regal Goldens | British Golden Retriever | Golden Retrievers | English Style Golden Retrievers | Puppies


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## GoldenGraham (Jul 16, 2014)

Thanks, everybody!

I have a question about the health testing. Is there a place that describes the different tests and the results that you're looking for? A bit confusing for a beginner...the different tests, people who give them....etc. I certainly do appreciate the advice.


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

I believe there is a "sticky" on here that tells you what clearances look like. Although I have no idea how to find it.

You can always post any prospective litter on here, with the parents registered names and someone will help you check them.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

I have a great dislike for PennHip as a health clearance. The lack of an open database makes it the devils playground. For people who know and have a thorough understanding of what the pennHip process is and what the report describes it can be meaningful. To the unsuspecting general public who lacks that knowledge and experience, the report is meaningless. 
So the report could state values that are absolutely horrible for a golden and the potential buyer would never know. 

The Heart Clearance requirement for a Cardiologist was implemented in 2011. There are a lot of dogs still being bred who are grandfathered in under the previous guideline. So if the clearance was done after the revision was impleminted the exam should be done by a cardiologist. If the exam was done prior to the revision was made it was the breeders option.


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## Fulton (Apr 19, 2016)

Golden Graham,

Did you end up purchasing a puppy from this breeder? Or another one?

Here is my personal experience with Strike Golden in Hayward, Wisconsin.

I bought my golden from Teresa Deslauriers March, 2012. He was from a mother imported pregnant from Serbia. Teresa was lovely to work with, and our dog had a lovely temperament. He was smart, easy to train, gentle, all things you would love and expect in a golden. However, at 4 years of age, we had to humanely euthanize him due to horrendous side effects of metastasized cancer (blood clots.) We miss him dearly but were so grateful to have had 4 years with him.


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## Max209 (Mar 25, 2016)

VERY helpful comments from the more experienced members above, amazingly helpful and kind of them to do the foot work of checking specifics on the clearances - that's what you want to do with every potential litter you come across. So, for $2,500, I would expect ALL clearances to be first rate and up to date. Clearly the dogs are beautiful, but the high price combined with the not so meticulous clearances makes me think may be primarily a business where they have put more time, effort, and expense in to the photography, web site, and marketing rather than the quality and health of the dogs. I think an informed puppy buyer would be best to keep looking for a lower risk situation. That said, this breeder could have some litters in the not too distant future where all health clearances are done properly and the ancestors have great documented longevity and would still be worth looking at.


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## Max209 (Mar 25, 2016)

GoldenGraham said:


> Thanks, everybody!
> 
> I have a question about the health testing. Is there a place that describes the different tests and the results that you're looking for? A bit confusing for a beginner...the different tests, people who give them....etc. I certainly do appreciate the advice.


Good info in this "Sticky" thread at the top of this list of topics

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...er-puppy/71378-what-clearances-look-like.html

Then, if you can look up the parents of a prospective litter on www.K9data.com you will see clearances listed, and if you click on the dog's OFA info link it will give you the specifics. It helps to look back a few generations, and also check on siblings etc. On the k9data page, you can click the 5 generation link and then the longevity link. Sometimes dates of death are just missing, but you can google the owner and breeder, potentially find a phone number and give them a call and say hey I was just wondering if so and so is still alive and did they have any health problems. NEVER ASSUME a dog is still alive and has been healthy just because you don't see anything to the contrary publicly posted.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Fulton, I am so sorry for your loss. It is clear from your words you loved your dog very much.


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## heartsofgold (Sep 6, 2017)

*Golden retriever breeder- would you recommend this breeder?*

Breed: Golden Retriever
DOB: 8/15/2017 (3 weeks old)
Sire: Strike Golden Shoot For The Stars (SR93363805)
Dam: Clumbret Nice Lady CGC AKC DNA #V705648 OFEL27 (SR78604601)
lovers goldens in virginia

Would be interested to know if there are any experienced breeders that might have a few mins and their two cents to chime in here.


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