# Puppy help



## Sara Rose Whaley (Sep 11, 2017)

Hi everyone! You guys were so helpful when I posted asking for help choosing a breeder back in September. We got a wonderful male puppy, George, who is now 4 months old. He is really great and we are enjoying him 99% of the time haha. I’m having one big issue though and am at a complete loss. 

He is amazing with everyone (including babies and kids) except me. He still has puppy biting but it’s the gentle nips that don’t hurt too bad (still don’t allow it). However, he completely loses it with me. I’ll be playing with him (fetch) or just petting him (I don’t chase him, play tug of war, or rough play with him) and all the sudden he’ll just start “attacking” (for lack of a better word) me: growling, nipping HARD, grabbing my clothes, jumping, and lunging. I’ve tried:
-kneeing him for the jumping and he just latches on to my leg and bites. 
-ignoring but frankly it’s impossible because he hurts me and pulls at my clothes. 
—grabbing him and making him sit to calm down. He just bites and continues everything 
-a gentle pop on the face (not proud of that but I was desperate...). This escalated it
-holding him down on his side. He just bites and growls and rolls on his back in a playful (not submissive) way
-picking him up and putting him away (kennel or outside). This seems to be the most effective but it’s not always possible (if we’re out or at a friend’s house or something)

I’m looking for ideas on how to handle it by also WHY it’s occuring and only with me. The most logical explanation would be that he doesn’t respect me and I need to do more training, etc. The other logical explanation would be that he’s under-exercised. I don’t think it’s either of these things though. I grew up training service dogs and have extensive dog training experience. I’ve raised about 10 puppies. George knows about 10-15 commands and I work on them regularly. I’ve done all his training and the majority of his care/exercise. We walk several miles a day (3 walks a day), he goes out in public frequently for socialization, and he has regular dog play dates. I’m also a Board Certified Behavior Analyst...figuring out behavior problems is my job!!! (With kids but still). I’m beyond frustrated and frankly kind of embarrassed by the fact that this behavior is only happening with me. My husband, who has no dog training experience, doesn’t have this issue with him. 

I am 5 months pregnant and starting to get a little worried as he gets older and this behavior continues. I can’t have him grabbing me and biting me as he’s almost made me fall multiple times. 

Thoughts? Suggestions? Brilliant ideas as to WHY he’s doing this? I’m at a complete loss. Help! And sorry for the long post!


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Thoughts...
he thinks you are his littermate?
If he's good w the kiddos, and everyone else, how are you interacting w him during training? Is there 'puppy play' between activities?Tell more...


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Prism Goldens

My thoughts too.


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## Sara Rose Whaley (Sep 11, 2017)

Thanks for the replies!

Robin, this is actually one of Ed and Gala's puppies. I've heard wonderful things about you from Hannah (with George's brother, Kanga)!

I agree that it seems he thinks I'm his littermate and isn't respecting me but I don't know WHY! I'm the disciplinarian in the house. My husband had NO puppy experience and I'm the one that taught him everything. He's done a great job learning and following through on the rules but I would still say that I'm stricter (and for sure do WAY more of the work with George...ie. ALL the training and 80% of exercise). 

I do not let him do any puppy play with me. My husband will wrestle with him (as long as he's not biting) but I don't. I don't play tug of war, I don't chase him, I don't let him chase me. Our walks are structured with him walking politely on my left side and sitting when I stop. I'm very strict with him. He has clear rules. He's not allowed on furniture (OCCASIONALLY we will let him on our bed but only when we pick him up and put him on there and the second he starts biting/playing, we put him down). He has to do sit stays and be released before meals. He's not allowed to push past us on stairs/doorways/etc. He doesn't get people food. As I said, I've trained about 10 puppies and they were all service dogs so we had very strict rules with them and I use the same rules/training for George. I also trained my last Golden, who I rescued when she was 1.5 years. So I'm by no means an unexperienced dog owner. My husband is though which makes me beyond frustrated that I'm the one that George doesn't seem to respect.


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## acetheretriever (Oct 16, 2017)

I had the exact same problem with Ace. I am his primary caretaker and I am the one who feeds and walks and trains him. My biggest gripe has been his tug of war with the body parts and clothing. Honestly, he's 7 months and it's not as bad, but some days he's just in a mood. I go through a couple steps when this happens. First I try the toy redirecting (it hardly ever works but hey maybe one day right?) then I try ignoring him (I turn my back I don't look at him sometimes even leave the room until he calms down) next is I try taking some treats and just occupying his mind. The last thing is something I actually saw on here and it sounds a little cruel but it only takes a couple of times before they understand. You take bitter apple spray and spray it in front of their mouth (not in) and say No really firmly. Ace now associates the bottle with stopping the mouthing. It took a few times before he understood but now all he has to see is the bottle. He's slowly growing out of this phase though so I hope yours will too! Hang in there


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

I have no suggestions, but I'll be following along to see what others have to say. Definitely an interesting situation, I hope it gets better soon and its just a weird phase!


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## FosterGolden (Mar 10, 2014)

I think that the respect thing and the submissive/dominance stuff (holding him down, things like that) can work against you with some dogs. For the dogs it has worked with, in my experience, many of those dogs are obedient only because they are afraid of making mistakes, so they partially shut down (they don't do much of anything), they feel safe. Not suggesting this is your situation, but there are people out there who see scared as obedient. Not all dogs will shut down when you alpha roll; some will fight back and this is an excellent way to get bit, by the way! Dogs are not out to get us; often they are just trying to communicate or they are doing something that is rewarding in some way that has been reinforced, either on purpose or on accident in the past. And some dogs, like some kids, get incredibly stressed, frantic and impatient when their means of communication are not working. Dogs don't think along the lines of respect, per say. 


So, maybe this dog needs a job? Some of this behavior indicates that maybe he is frustrated with you? Maybe he wants to work? If you are the one working him and he's all over you like this, maybe he's saying, "hey, I'm bored, I want to work!" and he does not know how to ask? Maybe he wants the reinforcer and it's not clear to him how to get it? Maybe he is unclear about what you want from him because you are not crystal clear in your cues and expectations (every dog is different and some will really make an honest trainer out of you!)? Maybe he needs more exercise that isn't structured, just being a dog? Maybe your rules are not crystal clear...your husband allows A and you do not; you sometimes allow him on the bed and sometimes you do not; etc. -- some dogs need rules in black and white. Perhaps his brain needs more -- have you thought about doing something like nosework, obedience, agility, etc. -- many dogs like this ended up performance dogs because they needed the work?


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## NothingbutGold (Apr 2, 2017)

I second the Bitter Apple. At 8 months, our golden went through teen teething and chewed on a couple of pieces of furniture (kind of my fault because I didn't leave him with any high quality chew items). After that happened, I went out and got bitter apple and sprayed any furniture I thought he might chew. Because I just got the spray and not a chew, that night he went after a window sill. I grabbed the bitter apple, sprayed the sill, said no and as I was spraying the window sill, he got a taste of the spray. He immediately retreated from the area. After that, whenever he got a little rowdy (biting and jumping) I would just get the bottle and the minute he saw it, he would back down. I would not even have to spray it, he kind of just knew by association. Now at almost 9 months, if he gets a little bit wound up, I just have to say I am going to get my spray and he backs away or settles. In fact, last weekend we had company visit and he was getting a little mouthy. I sprayed our company's arm and he back right down. Bitter Apple has been a huge help for us.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Since this is an Edward kid, I will tell you there is a mouthing component- all of my dogs that came down from Hooch mouth- none of them do it hard, and none of them have ever even scratched w their teeth, I call it 'hand holding'... when they were puppies, I would hold their muzzle closed, and say NO BITE sharply, release, then offer the arm or whatever again. If they went to bite me, I would repeat ...over and over until they did not. Then I would praise and treat. 
They have to have it taught again 20 minutes later, of course, learning to control urges is hard. 
But slowly, maybe over the course of a week, they quit. That doesn't mean they don't mouth- they do. But it is very gentle and hand holdy.

Tripping you- biting clothes- that sort of thing- I have zero experience w that. Mine pretty much grow up in heel position and like to be there. Nobody's ever made me fall or even come close. So I won't claim any genetic component to that behavior! 
If it is helpful to see into the future, Edward has sired many many all-access SDs and he is a super obedient worker who is completely reliable. 
You have that concrete reliability to look forward to...just gotta get him through this phase.


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

Sort of off topic, but we'd love to see a picture of your little hellion! 

Colors litter, right?


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## CedarFurbaby (Jun 6, 2016)

Could it be that he gets really excited around you because you’re his main person? And that he’s just easily overwhelmed, like wow mom’s around and playing with me I LOVE IT I’M SOO HAPPY!! -nip nip nip-

I’m by no means an experienced dog owner at all but when baby Cedar was doing this mid-play, I decided it meant he was awake for too long and he should have had a nap already. If we have a walk, it has to be no longer than x minutes (depending on dog and age) because I felt like he went crazy after that, everything was too exciting, too overwhelming, too many scents, too many people, too many doggies, too much noise! Kind of like brain overload. 


I learned to not play with him after walks because of was very likely to stop playing and nip, so we would have “quiet time”, reward for relaxed behavior and just chill for a bit. 

None of the usual interventions worked for me. Telling him ouch, a loud noise to interrupt, tap on nose, spray, turning my back, etc. My view on it is that the pup is already in a overarousal reactive state and he’s not thinking or learning. There is no teaching him anything just manage it for the moment (I got out the way and shut the door) and then teach him to be nice and calm before he gets to that state.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

This is not an uncommon issue... at all. 

Especially if he's an only dog.

It isn't aggression or a wiring problem or a plan for world domination.

However, as FosterGolden said, your reactions to his behavior could actually turn it into a more serious issue.

As CedarFurBaby said, the biggest cause is likely that he needs a nap. Seriously. Just a nap. 

Eventually you'll be able to predict when he's going to have a revved up period... some dogs get like this during or after a walk, or after an intense play session. They need help taking their arousal level down since, at this point, they can't calm themselves. They are babies!

But, a GREAT way to do this is to teach tug with rules. You teach him how to get revved up, then with treats and all that, help him get into a calm state by rewarding his calm behavior. Somewhere on this forum, I wrote a list of how to play tug with rules... but I'm sure there are millions of articles out there by pros.

So next time he starts this, put him to work with a few obedience jobs and reinforce with treats, then slip a collar/leash combo over his head, take some more treats, and lead him to a crate or expen. Keep your walks shorter, trips to friends' at a minimum, etc. Just like some kids need a more regular naps at a young age (and won't put themselves to sleep), so it is with puppies.

And it never hurts to work on the Relaxation Protocol by Dr. Karen Overall. I wish every new puppy owner would do this!


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