# Prong collar



## jweisman54

I went in to my pet store to replace Izzy's Easy Walk harness (this is the second one she has chewed up) and the owner who also has a Golden saw how much I was struggling with her on the harness says to me, that I need a prong collar, that clearly the Easy Walk is not working. I had to use a prong for my black lab but really wanted to not have to use it for Izzy but as soon as she put it on, very little correction was needed and voila, she was walking so nicely. No matter how much I trained her with very desirable food to walk on the harness or regular collar did she cooperate. I have two very arthritic thumbs which require surgery and I cannot have her pull me the way she was.

Will she learn with the prong and will I eventually be able to just use a regular flat collar with her?


----------



## jackie_hubert

There are many threads about the Prong Collar on here and there is heated debate about their use (see http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/golden-retriever-training/86236-common-obedience-classes.html, http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...n/84948-i-surrender-dreaded-prong-collar.html). I think most would consider it an inappropriate tool for a puppy. I personally consider it inappropriate even for an adult but not everyone agrees with me on that. If I had a large dog who was going to harm someone and a prong was all that could be used I MAY consider one but only used by a professional and trusted trainer and only for short term.


----------



## Bender

Bender got a prong in puppy classes, because she really could care less about doing anything other than pulling and gagging/choking herself like a crazy dog. Prong collar on and she quickly learned respect and what I wanted, and was fine after that. For a while she had to wear one as a young dog, but by the time she was 3-4 she was fine with a buckle. 

Your pup should learn quickly, and you can always use a buckle but have the prong on just in case you need to change over.

Lana


----------



## Megora

I wouldn't use a prong on a puppy... 

But I have a little suggestion here... if your golden is one of those that goes pulling on walks and you do not have the hand strength to deal with the pulling, put the prong collar on at the beginning of the walk. I'm assuming you know how to use a prong appropriately (no yanks or pulling on the collar) and won't be pulling or letting your dog pull on it. 

Leave the prong on only until that point in the walk when she calms down, and then take the collar off and leave your dog on the flat collar. 

Prongs should not be used as a crutch or a regular walking collar. They should be used for training. And they should be removed when the training isn't necessary.


----------



## RSHANNING

I was really hesitant to use the prong collar. We tried the Martingale in Puppy class and Sierra would not listen she would pull and choke herself until she made herself sick. The trainer in class loaned me a prong collar to try and it made such a huge difference in her behaviour. I now can walk her most of the time without it. I always bring it with me as a back up just in case she starts pulling with the buckle collar.


----------



## jweisman54

jackie_hubert said:


> There are many threads about the Prong Collar on here and there is heated debate about their use (see http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/golden-retriever-training/86236-common-obedience-classes.html, http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...n/84948-i-surrender-dreaded-prong-collar.html). I think most would consider it an inappropriate tool for a puppy. I personally consider it inappropriate even for an adult but not everyone agrees with me on that. If I had a large dog who was going to harm someone and a prong was all that could be used I MAY consider one but only used by a professional and trusted trainer and only for short term.


I think I will be returning this to the store. When I went to put it on her a few minutes ago, she did look at me in fear. I don't want a pup who will be fearful of me.


----------



## Bender

It is a tool, like anything else. If you are misusing it, they may start to associate it with that negativity, however if you are fair with your use and still use tones of treats and praise, it becomes just another thing. My guys love to work, so if I pull out a prong they all get worked up about who is going to play. 

You still need to use the positive training methods, the prong is simply less enticing for them to drag you around with, and you don't need as strong a pop to get the same results as another collar.

Lana


----------



## Megora

Bender said:


> It is a tool, like anything else. If you are misusing it, they may start to associate it with that negativity, however if you are fair with your use and still use tones of treats and praise, it becomes just another thing. My guys love to work, so if I pull out a prong they all get worked up about who is going to play.
> 
> You still need to use the positive training methods, the prong is simply less enticing for them to drag you around with, and you don't need as strong a pop to get the same results as another collar.
> 
> Lana


Seconds this<:

My golden connected prongs with walks and would actually sit and push his head into the prong (I used a quick release prong that would hang loosely around his neck unless I was making a correction). 

He doesn't wear the prong for walks anymore, but comes running if he hears me jingle it. 

- That said, I could and would never do the same training with a regular prong because my golden could not handle the constant pinch on his neck.


----------



## Laurie

jweisman54 said:


> I think I will be returning this to the store. When I went to put it on her a few minutes ago, she did look at me in fear. I don't want a pup who will be fearful of me.


 
I use a prong every once in awhile with Austin and Lincoln. They are both pullers and are very strong. My preference is not to use it but I also value my hands and arms. We also regularly use the halti and gentle leader but Lincoln also pulls with that. We are currently working with a trainer on their loose leash walking. We can already see a difference so hopefully this will work. :crossfing:crossfing:crossfing

Regarding your comment above, my guys will actually come to me when they see the prong collar....it's when I bring out the halti and gentle leader that they turn the other way and then look totally humiliated when I put it on them.


----------



## Bender

If the prong is on correctly, the dog will not feel a pinch - it simply sits on the neck like a collar. However, if you need to correct them, it does not take much to do so and that's why it works so well for dogs who need it. 

Way, way back when, with the first dog I really ever trained, I put him in a prong collar and it was a jerk and correct class. He did hate it and it was a pain to get it on him. So I can see where some dogs would hate them. Since learning more, now it's a tool but the training is a lot more fun stuff, so the split second of a correction is followed by a lot of play and praise and it's soon forgotten. Same as an e collar if we're using that, often you don't even see them corrected, it's just that quick and they're back to what they were supposed to be doing.

Lana


----------



## jweisman54

I think the prong and choke are very old school as this is what I was taught to use on my first golden 25 years ago and my lab 16 years ago. I know my breeder wrote me and was horrified that I would even think of using one. That being said and all the posts that I am reading I will NOT be using it. I will work on more and more loose leash training. I really think she reverted because she was spayed and we really couldn't do much over the past week or so.


----------



## GoldensGirl

Prong collars horrified me when I first saw them and I still understand that reaction. I gave in and got them for my dogs after being dragged face-down across a park, nearly dislocating a shoulder, when one fur-kid wanted to go to the nearby river and the other wanted to visit another dog a few hundred yards away in the park. Mind you, I was - and am - far from petite, at almost 6 feet tall. 

It took less than 5 minutes on the prong collar for all pulling to stop completely. Far from fearing the prong collars, my dogs come dancing joyfully when they hear a rattle and they compete to be the first to have theirs put on. When the collar is properly loose, those fearsome prongs never touch the dog - unless the dog pulls against the collar, and then s/he quickly stops.

I adore my dogs and would never intentionally hurt them. Properly used prong collars put the dog in control of the behavior that could cause discomfort. I realize that others disagree, but I feel no guilt about using these devices when they are needed.


----------



## Selli-Belle

Jweisman, I commend you for taking your pup's reaction into account when choosing training equipment. I do not use, nor have I ever used prong collars and in general I am against their use by most people since most people do not know how to use them correctly.

Your girl was probably very excited about going to the pet store after her prolonged rest due to her spay, understandable. I am a big believer in training a dog where it should be when walking, not correcting them when they are out of place. Once she knows that good things happen when she is in the correct place you will see a big change. Give her sufficient exercise and make training lots of fun and of course, make yourself the most exciting thing in her environment!


----------



## jweisman54

Selli-Belle said:


> Jweisman, I commend you for taking your pup's reaction into account when choosing training equipment. I do not use, nor have I ever used prong collars and in general I am against their use by most people since most people do not know how to use them correctly.
> 
> Your girl was probably very excited about going to the pet store after her prolonged rest due to her spay, understandable. I am a big believer in training a dog where it should be when walking, not correcting them when they are out of place. Once she knows that good things happen when she is in the correct place you will see a big change. Give her sufficient exercise and make training lots of fun and of course, make yourself the most exciting thing in her environment!


I just took her out on her Easy Walk and she was fine. Granted, the leaves have stopped blowing! You are probably correct in that she was so excited to just get out of her regular environs and into the pet store. I am looking forward to taking her to the dog park when she is completely healed. I had also been opposed to the prong collar but when I walked in to the pet store and the manager basically took her from me and told me that she needs the prong, I was at a total loss. Clearly she is old school.


----------



## Swampcollie

jweisman54 said:


> Will she learn with the prong and will I eventually be able to just use a regular flat collar with her?


Yes.

Angel's basic obedience was learned while she was on the pinch (prong) collar. She hasn't been on the prong collar, flat collar or leash for over a year (She's not two yet) while we're at home or walking around the neighborhood. She walks very nicely at heel, sits when told and stays put until recalled, all without any collar, lead or treats. 

You get out of training what you put into it.


----------



## jackie_hubert

Wow, that store manager sounds like a real winner.


----------



## jweisman54

jackie_hubert said:


> Wow, that store manager sounds like a real winner.



All I know is that when I got home with Izzy and took her out of the car to go pee she started really crying with the thing on. That just told me that it is something more cruel than helpful.


----------



## Rastadog

*Prongs are not old school*

choke collars are. I've been a member of this board for a while. I'm always amused when the prong threads pop up. People are so critcal about things they have never seen used and don't understand. I've trained 3 goldens on prongs. My obedience dog loved her " jewlery ". It meant we were going to train , which she loved. She loved it because I made it fun and interesting for her. Dogs do not learn like people.


----------

