# Preshow Training....Help?!



## JDandBigAm (Aug 25, 2008)

Jonah and I are taking the plunge July 23 and will show in wildcard novice....maybe. We had a training session with my instructor this past weekend and Jonah was sluggish and didn't really want to do what was asked of him. I was in shock because he has been so flashy at fun matches and running in on his recalls. But he lagged while heeling even though I went back to where he started to lag and corrected him. He walked in on his recalls and wouldn't finish. I corrected him on his poor finish so he reluctantly did it right and got his frisbee out to make him come in faster on his recall. I don't feel very confident right now and this week we will do some training sessions at home with his frisbee and making it fun. But if he isn't quite right at the show ring I might just pull out. Any tips on what you have done when your dog is suddenly sluggish? I have a very hard headed dog and we have worked through alot of stubborn issues but he has actually become a pretty good obedience dog.


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## bizzy (Mar 30, 2007)

My first thought with a sudden change is make sure there is not a medical issue.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Is it hot over there?

Are you training him a lot more than usual in prep for the trial, changing anything in your training (cutting out treats and verbal cues) ? 

The positive is that dogs do seem to get hyped up for trials and that lagging issue will go away once you get in the ring.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Megora said:


> Is it hot over there?


The NW has had the coldest rainiest summer on record. I think I remember Jonah living on the coast...

I was gonna say it's probably just an off day for him. Maybe he was feeling some nervousness and pressure too?


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## JDandBigAm (Aug 25, 2008)

Yes, I'm in the NW so heat is not an issue this summer,. I'm not doing any more training than usual. However, I was on vacation 2 weeks ago and Jonah was in doggy camp playing very hard everyday so I hope he is just tired. He just doesn't have his usual mischievious energy and his stools are just an itsy bit loose. I'm going to video our training tonight and see if I can notice anything going on.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Megora said:


> Is it hot over there?
> 
> Are you training him a lot more than usual in prep for the trial, changing anything in your training (cutting out treats and verbal cues) ?
> 
> The positive is that dogs do seem to get hyped up for trials and that lagging issue will go away once you get in the ring.


I want to see these trials where it is more common for a dog to get more up in the ring rather than stressing down! I know some dogs get more up in the ring, but in my experience it is much much more common to have dogs go flat in the ring. I think it is the very rare dog that would stop lagging because they were in the ring. The type of dog that gets hyped up in the ring is usually the type of dog that would never be interested in lagging in the first place.

To answer the original question when I have been faced with this from my own dogs shortly before a trial, I back way off on the training. Any training I did would be short and only for the purpose of being highly motivating. I would want to get it back into his head how much fun training is. I would not worry about precision at all in the training, only in regaining a joyful attitude about it.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> want to see these trials where it is more common for a dog to get more up in the ring rather than stressing down! I know some dogs get more up in the ring, but in my experience it is much much more common to have dogs go flat in the ring. I think it is the very rare dog that would stop lagging because they were in the ring. The type of dog that gets hyped up in the ring is usually the type of dog that would never be interested in lagging in the first place.


Sorry, I've been trying to avoid generalizing in responses to these things... looks like I did it again. 

My Danny was a consummate lagger at class and I didn't enter him in trials for a long time because of my stress over that. My instructor back then pushed me to commit to trials because she felt he was solid enough and would be hyped up enough to stay with me in the ring.

And she was right. Other than our first trial (hot weather, outside, he was dying), he had absolutely zero lagging problems in the ring. And in fact he did some crazy hyper behaviors in a couple shows along the way that he never did in his whole life of attending classes and matches (zooming around the ring, exiting to find my mom). 

My feeling was Happy's dog was lagging for the same reasons that my Danny always did. He was uber relaxed and bored.


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## JDandBigAm (Aug 25, 2008)

Ya'll have given me a couple of things to ponder. I will definitely do short and exciting training "moments" this week. I think he actually could be a bit bored with the heeling but we have been working on alot of the open and utility exercises for the fun of training. However, I've started each training session with heeling so I'd better mix it up. We just finished training outside in my pasture and he was much better today. This will be my first anything to do at a dog show so I'm quite nervous and excited.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Uh-oh... you let him know that you were sending out entries didn't you? Big no-no. 

In all seriousness, some lighthearted training sessions (short, heavy on play) should help perk things back up. It's very likely that you're letting your stress show and it's affecting him. Beyond that, I'm sure others here can give you much better advice than me... but I just wanted to wish you and Jonah good luck!!

Julie, Jersey and Oz


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Hi, what is your "correction" for lagging and slow finish?

Be very careful you aren't nagging him with these corrections and teaching him to hold out with the mopey stuff until you break out the toys. Goldens are very manipulative with this!

It's hard to say how to go about fixing "this" without knowing how you train and what the dog expects out of training. 

Unless your correction is something creative and motivating (which I won't assume) -- correcting a lag RARELY gives you the behavior you seek. It makes it worse. Unless the dog is lagging because he is distracted and looking off somewhere, which is an effort error and needs to be corrected because of the looking away, not the lagging.


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## JDandBigAm (Aug 25, 2008)

K9-Design said:


> Hi, what is your "correction" for lagging and slow finish?
> 
> Be very careful you aren't nagging him with these corrections and teaching him to hold out with the mopey stuff until you break out the toys. Goldens are very manipulative with this!
> 
> ...


For a slow finish I have him in a front position put my right hand in his collar and say, "ready, steady, ready.....around!" and physically make him go around behind me and into heel position. Then he gets to try around without my help and if it is correct he gets to play tug.
He usually won't lag on lead but if he lags off lead I put his leash on and we go back to the spot he started lagging and he gets a pop at the spot he lagged. Then we go back off lead to the same spot and when he performs it correctly he is lavishly praised and gets to play. That is a snippet of our training.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I'm obviously not really experienced here, but I do agree with K9-design as far as correcting lags. If you are popping your dog or reaching back to correct the dog from falling out of position each time it happens, sometimes you have dogs who only fix the position when corrected. Or if they are off leash, you reaching back for their collars might encourage them to fall back even more. And they may be the worst at getting ring smart, because they know there will be no corrections there. 

One thing I'm doing with my guy as a preemptive (and have been doing as a regular heeling drill just to keep things positive and fun) is I will do straight line heeling with a treat in my mouth. And at any given moment I will spit that treat out and release my dog after it. I'm spitting the treat in front so he has to charge forward after it. And this is an ultimate sacrifice on my part since sticking treats (even bread and cheese) in my mouth while training is highly likely to make me gag.

And do all of your heeling drill work off leash, if you think your dog is cycling down during the off leash portion vs the on leash part. 

For finishes - have you thought about going back to the two step finish? Step back with one treat in right hand, feed behind your back, use treat in left hand to lure dog back up into heel position. And then wean to the hand signal with the right hand and treat in left hand luring up. And then finally just the hand signal and then treat from pocket when dog is in position. That way your dog keeps his focus on you even when he's behind your back and moves quickly around and up into position. Without you reaching for him or his collar. <- Even though my dog knows his finishes, we still sometimes back up to reinforce.


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