# Return new puppy to breeder? Struggling with decision



## NewOwner (Feb 21, 2014)

Hello everyone, new golden owner here. We are at a heartbreaking decision and are struggling with what to do. I don't know if I'm looking for advice, validation, or just what, but I feel this forum might be a good place to discuss our situation:

Almost a month ago, we got our new golden puppy at almost ten weeks old from a breeder who is known in our area. We know people in our neighborhood who have older healthy dogs from this breeder, so we felt confident in our breeder selection. Since day one with new puppy, he has been sick however. Runny poops which turned slightly bloody on day three, urinated way too much and had very dilute urine, this began the first trip of many to our local vet. We have literally been to the vet every 2-3 days for either a new medicine, probiotic, sub q pack, or prescription food. Two negative fecals, and an inconclusive parvovirus, but we have treated for them all. He also had an infection/fever of unknown origin and we had him on antibiotics to clear that up. We stopped that last week. He was close to death one night during week one. As of today, this puppy has never had close to a solid stool, in the time we have owned him. He is very thin, we are trying to get him healthy, but it is difficult when food does not stay in him long enough to have a stool. We have tried bowel rest, bland diet, and today I am trying pumpkin mixed in with the prescription canned food.

In addition to this, crate training was of course difficult with a sick puppy, but it is getting better. House breaking when out of the crate is difficult with lots of snow, no neighborhood walks due to his immune system, and with diarrhea/loose stool he can't always or doesn't want to make it to the puppy pads. He also is having a difficult time with bite inhibition. I thought since he was older he would have worked through that, but no. He bites on all of us, even though he is growing to see me as pack leader, and Bitter Apple is never far from me. It only deters him slightly. We try to play a lot, exercise as we can, etc. it just seems to be a thing with him that I'm sure he will grow out of. In the past week, he has dropped a ton of fur, I imagine due to malnutrition, medicine, or just spring shedding, but two of us have developed allergies. One of us who has had a fairly terrible reaction. The allergies only came out when the fur did, over the past few days. First couple of weeks, we were all fine.

So, we are calling the vet one last time today, then I think we are calling the breeder. One child likes the puppy but wants to give him back, the other child is completely heartbroken at he thought. Which, of course, breaks our heart.

I feel like a complete failure, although others have reassured me I have tried. I'm at a loss. I feel like surely I can do more, but with the $$$$ we have spent at this point, with no end in sight, and no healthy puppy to show for it... We haven't even had the twelve week shots which were due ten days ago because the vet did not feel it would be a good idea.

I don't know if I'm looking for advice, or just a listening ear. But, here we are.

Any thoughts welcome.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Welcome to the forum.

So sorry to read the problems with your pup you are experiencing. 

Hopefully some of the experienced puppy owners will be able to give you some advice.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

My first thought was poor puppy.  How awful for the pup and your family, but I'm thankful you have been putting so much energy into this.

I would call the breeder right away, not necessarily to return the puppy, but because the breeder should be apprised of this health issue. Perhaps she will have some insight. Perhaps she has dealt with this before. Perhaps she has some other resources. And at the very least it's another (hopefully) knowledgeable ear. Plus, giving a puppy back to the breeder goes much smoother when the breeder is not taken by surprise, but knows about the health problem and has a chance to try to help, first.

I certainly wish you luck. If you return this puppy you shouldn't feel bad about it. It may be what's best for the puppy, as well as what's best for your wallet and family. But I'd give the breeder a chance to weigh in, first. And I'd do that right away.


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## murphysmum (Oct 6, 2013)

Hi, what a heartbreaking situation.

We got our first Golden 8 months ago, it was our first puppy.

During the first 6 months he went to the vet nearly every week!!!!
He had Kennel Cough, a recurrent eye infection which needed drops week after week, he had skin rashes which needed antibiotics week after week, he had loose stools ALL the time which we fixed with changing his kibble and not giving him anything with Chicken in it.

All in all it was a very expensive time for us but we worked through it. We were like you thinking should we give him back but I'm so pleased we didn't.

He hasn't been to the vet in 2 months and is growing into a beautiful healthy boy.

I know everyone's situation is different but just wanted to share my story with you before you made any decisions.

Good luck ; )

Things will get easier.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## NewOwner (Feb 21, 2014)

Thank you for the welcome, and thoughts. Yes, we called the breeder during week one. Breeder became defensive, which actually surprised me. I called in an informative manner then, just as an FYI, i.e. this is what we are seeing, and the breeder reacted fairly negatively. The breeder also did not seem to have confidence in the vet (although we do, this vet is great in our area,and also sees our cat) and the breeder indicated our puppy just needed time to adjust. This breeder has a congenital issues guarantee, but we will not be getting another puppy from this breeder now, no matter what. And yes, poor pup! One trainer I spoke with last week said that many people would have given up before now. That made me feel better at the time. Doesn't really now.


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## CharlieBear80 (Oct 13, 2013)

I think any reputable breeder would want to know about the health issues you've encountered so far, and maybe she can offer some insight. It sounds like the biggest issue you've had is with GI upset, and that's not at all uncommon with puppies between the stress of going to a new home and puppies getting parasites, etc. If the GI issues can be resolved, crate training should become much easier. As for the mouthiness, that's what puppies do! You say you've had him less than a month? Puppies *will be* mouthy for months, especially when they are teething. It's certainly something that you can work on, but to expect a pup that young to totally *get it* is unrealistic, in my opinion.

I can't speak to the fact that you seem to have suddenly developed allergies to him with his coat shedding; if that's really the case, you may have a problem on your hands as Goldens will shed somewhat all year round. 

Hopefully you can find some sort of resolution, I wish you luck.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

The biting issue will resolve in time. That is something you are just going to have to work on if you keep your puppy. Tayla was a biting machine until almost a year old. If you keep ???, what is your puppy's name, check back because many people can help you with that issue, but first you need to get the poop issue fixed. I didn't see what you are feeding him/her. Maybe there is an issue with food. Have you tried chicken, rice and pumpkin? Real chicken and rice not kibble chicken and rice.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

NewOwner said:


> Hello everyone, new golden owner here. We are at a heartbreaking decision and are struggling with what to do. I don't know if I'm looking for advice, validation, or just what, but I feel this forum might be a good place to discuss our situation:
> 
> Almost a month ago, we got our new golden puppy at almost ten weeks old from a breeder who is known in our area. We know people in our neighborhood who have older healthy dogs from this breeder, so we felt confident in our breeder selection. Since day one with new puppy, he has been sick however. Runny poops which turned slightly bloody on day three, urinated way too much and had very dilute urine, this began the first trip of many to our local vet. We have literally been to the vet every 2-3 days for either a new medicine, probiotic, sub q pack, or prescription food. Two negative fecals, and an inconclusive parvovirus, but we have treated for them all. He also had an infection/fever of unknown origin and we had him on antibiotics to clear that up. We stopped that last week. He was close to death one night during week one. As of today, this puppy has never had close to a solid stool, in the time we have owned him. He is very thin, we are trying to get him healthy, but it is difficult when food does not stay in him long enough to have a stool. We have tried bowel rest, bland diet, and today I am trying pumpkin mixed in with the prescription canned food.
> 
> ...


I would highly recommend the vet test him for Coccidia and Giardia. They are intestinal parasites that are notoriously hard to find on the test, and usually require an extended dose of specific medication to treat it.

The puppy biting is 100% normal for his age and it will continue for a couple of months. Puppies explore the world with their mouths, you also have a retriever who was bred to increase the instinct to use their mouth. Just keep toys handy and put them in his mouth when he starts, encourage him to play with the toy, and praise him when he does. This will not be a life long habit, he will grow up and learn not to put teeth on skin with consistent training.

If you read through the puppy forum on this board you will find many, many new puppy owners dealing with both these problems. There are a lot of suggestions and methods for working the the biting, which is totally normal and every puppy goes through it, and lots of information on how to successfully treat the diarrhea/infection. 

I hope you don't give up yet.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

If you are feeding him Blue Buffalo, just be aware there are a lot of puppies who can not eat that food. There have been a lot of people who found their puppy had loose stools on BB, as well as adult dogs.


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## golden99 (Feb 18, 2014)

mylissyk said:


> If you are feeding him Blue Buffalo, just be aware there are a lot of puppies who can not eat that food. There have been a lot of people who found their puppy had loose stools on BB, as well as adult dogs.



Sorry to hear what's happening with the puppy.

Maybe ask the breeder the type of food she is using and try the same for your puppy and see if she improves?


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## NewOwner (Feb 21, 2014)

Yes, we did expect mouthiness well into the first 12 - 18 months, but not really the full on grabby bite, breaking skin. We are first time golden owners but not first time dog owners. It's not a malicious biting, but still I don't like seeing my youngest child trying to go still like a statue when the pup is going for the crotch area. And I coat the kids in bitter apple. I had not encountered that in the breeds I have had before. Crotch sniffing sure, biting no. But I do think it is something we can absolutely overcome with time and training. Our biggest issue is the health of both the pup and our family. The rest we could work through. The most awesome thing about this pup is that it is super sweet, and absolutely no barking. Only barked once. How awesome is that? It's truly a great little dog. Of course the "little" part does really worry me. Not thriving at this point and only weighs 11 lbs at fourteen weeks.


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## PiratesAndPups (Sep 24, 2013)

I can't speak to much on the stomach issues as I don't have much experience there, but for the mouthiness I wouldn't worry too much. Little puppies just do everything with their mouths. It's how the explore their new world. They'll mouth on you to be playful or affectionate.


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## SterlingValleyGoldens (Jun 13, 2011)

This may be an obvious one, but have you changed his food? Have you tried changing his foods to see if it helps. Also, has he been put on probiotics (ANY dog with GI upset can definitely benefit from probiotics, and sometimes it is all that needs to be done. Such a simple fix oftentimes, but overlooked most of the time).


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## NewOwner (Feb 21, 2014)

Thanks everyone for your help, you are replying faster than I am! 

I read this forum for MONTHS before we brought the puppy home, so I have been trying every trick in the book. We have great toys always at the ready. Even go to the vets with us.

The puppy has been tested and treated for all worms, parasites, possible parvovirus. Dewormed again, also did panacur, a course of Albon, another parasite medicine I forgot the name of, clavamox for the infection, and also Metro for the past three straight weeks. Puppy is now down to just the metro and probiotic. This has been going on almost a month. Everyone always seems surprised that the metro hasn't firmed up the stools at all. The breeder had the puppy on purina p chow, so the vet switched it to canned EN. Since I had read good things about pumpkin on here, I added that in today. We will see.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

What's your puppy's name? Do you have any pictures? I'm glad he/she is sweet, that really goes a long way. What food are you feeding him/her?

Pumpkin is good for all sorts of potty issues. Give it a few days.


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## Goldenhopeful (Dec 21, 2013)

Tucker is 13 weeks and just started shedding like crazy... My parents had a golden (and two long hair Persians) so I'm totally prepared for the hair!!! We brush daily to help with the shedding. My friend who is allergic when she comes over she takes Zyrtec which seems to completely alleviate any symptoms. As far as kids and puppies... Make sure you have a puppy free zone for the kids to play in... That's been our key to success with our new pup and our 21 month old. We keep Tucker gated in the family room and have an xpen too. We use both to help keep puppy and baby separate when necessary.


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## ShadowGolden (Sep 4, 2012)

So sorry to hear that your puppy is having tummy issues. 

We went through this with Shadow for over a month (and two bouts of Coccidia) before the vet finally decided to put Shadow on a prescription food that had a high fiber count (16%!) - and the stools firmed up. Granted, he became a poop machine - but I was so happy to no longer have runny/bloody stools, I happily bought lots of poop bags. 

Good luck!


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## NewOwner (Feb 21, 2014)

ShadowGolden, that had been our main suspect as well, as the breeder had a bout with it when the litter was four weeks old or so. And as the vet said, just because the fecal tests were negative doesn't mean it wasn't cox. 

I switched antihistamine today, so I am trying a new one for myself. And I totally know what you mean about hair! I owned Persians and Maine **** cats for 25 years, our current kitty is a Maine ****. Love them I grew up with German shepherds, a beagle, and have owned poodles as well. So shocked that I am the one with the severe reaction! And I'm a SAHM, so no office to escape to in the day. Erg.


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## Wenderwoman (Jan 7, 2013)

My girl had scabies and two types of worms that took a good 6 months to fully clear up. Many owners go through a slew of medical problems. 

I gave my girl plain, cooked, steel cut oatmeal when she was a puppy because of her skin issues. It helps hydrate and adds fiber. I also gave her fish oil and some banana which might also be helpful if you are concerned about hydration from the diarrhea.

I agree that you should check with the breeder and see how they did on that food and see if they have heard of anything with other littermates. Switching foods often causes problems for dogs.


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## NewOwner (Feb 21, 2014)

Goldenhopeful, Tucker is adorable! And great lineage too! Our puppy is near in birthdate, but doesn't look nearly as healthy. I may post a pick if we keep him, but I am trying to detach myself and make a responsible decision without emotion. If I let my emotions interfere, then I may not make the wisest choice. So for now, no pictures or name. Especially if the breeder may be on this site.


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## KeaColorado (Jan 2, 2013)

NewOwner said:


> ShadowGolden, that had been our main suspect as well, as the breeder had a bout with it when the litter was four weeks old or so. And as the vet said, just because the fecal tests were negative doesn't mean it wasn't cox.
> 
> I switched antihistamine today, so I am trying a new one for myself. And I totally know what you mean about hair! I owned Persians and Maine **** cats for 25 years, our current kitty is a Maine ****. Love them I grew up with German shepherds, a beagle, and have owned poodles as well. So shocked that I am the one with the severe reaction! And I'm a SAHM, so no office to escape to in the day. Erg.


I'm so sorry your puppy is not well. SweetGirl from this forum had a lot of tummy issues with her puppy Shala. Maybe she will see this thread and chime in. Another member, Mini Golden, experienced some health issues with a very tiny puppy a few months ago as well. Check out this thread http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...y-up-1-year/217586-why-my-puppy-so-small.html If my memory serves me correctly, that member also has 6 kids, and Shiloh is thriving now!

Raising a puppy is really hard work, but I promise it will pay off in the end! Your little one has experienced a lot in the last several weeks. Changing homes, changing foods, visits to the vet, medications. Puppies need to be taught how to interact appropriately with people and especially with kids. 

And...WE NEED PUPPY PICTURES!!!!


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## NewOwner (Feb 21, 2014)

Thanks, Wenderwoman! When I did speak to the breeder during the first week, she did mention one other family having issues, but stated their fecals were negative, too. She would not elaborate, and I felt (maybe wrongly so) she was being evasive. My vet was unhappy that the puppy was late on its first parvovirus shot as well, and that is originally why we suspected that as well initially. I didn't realize the puppy was late on its first vaccines until our vet said so from looking at breeder records. This does not help me toward trusting the breeder unfortunately. And once again, I'm so surprised, as there are families around us with dogs from her. And while the breeder wasn't super show expensive, she wasn't cheap.


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## Calm dog (Sep 11, 2013)

I'm so sorry you guys are going through this!
As far as the biting, I hear you
Teddy would bite me so hard that I could barely pry his jaws open. I could never just pet my new puppy, and it was so sad. I had bandaids on my hands and arms. He even bit our trainer in the face and drew blood. He bit the neighbor and he bled too. This was just at nine to twelve weeks old. Eventually he did get better when I walked away. Many times he would walk around snapping his jaws like a crocodile! He also tried to bite my son in the crotch, as well as his neck! My son is twenty three but was freaked out by it.


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## Heart O'Gold (Jul 31, 2012)

I have no real insight to help you with your poor little pup, but I wanted to just say that I hope things improve for you all very soon. Bentley had a respiratory infection when we first got him and that cost us around $1000 to treat (er visit etc) and it was very mild. It was so stressful even though it was short-lived. I am so sorry that you are not seeing any improvement in your puppy's health, the stress must be overwhelming. Bentley did have stomach issues following the antibiotics he took. My holistic vet put him on probiotics and Intestitune. He also recommended sweet potatoes as they sooth the digestive tract. We also put him on a mild food. He still has a sensitive tummy. Do you have a holistic vet in your area that you could consult? I have found it very helpful to have both a holistic and a regular vet to consult as each brings perspective to the issue. I truly hope your puppy recovers very soon and things work out for you all.


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## NewOwner (Feb 21, 2014)

Thanks for the link KeaColorado. I read those before, when I was researching here before posting, so I definitely feel for mini golden! And it's one reason I have watched this dog like a hawk. Never off leash in backyard, no Legos or kids toys in her area, etc. the only thing this dog ingested in our house that wasn't prescription food (which he has been on for about 28 days now) is a stray cinnamon toast crunch piece that fell when I was pouring a bowl of cereal and he snapped it up before I could grab it. 

Ok, so first two poos after pumpkin/EN mix did not come out formed, but I will try again. On the bright side, he went to the door and scratched to go out. So that's new and good.


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## NewOwner (Feb 21, 2014)

Calm dog said:


> I'm so sorry you guys are going through this!
> As far as the biting, I hear you
> Teddy would bite me so hard that I could barely pry his jaws open. I could never just pet my new puppy, and it was so sad. I had bandaids on my hands and arms. He even bit our trainer in the face and drew blood. He bit the neighbor and he bled too. This was just at nine to twelve weeks old. Eventually he did get better when I walked away. Many times he would walk around snapping his jaws like a crocodile! He also tried to bite my son in the crotch, as well as his neck! My son is twenty three but was freaked out by it.


THIS, exactly!! But my kids are 5 and 10. Same otherwise!


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

The biting will continue for awhile.....spray your hands with the bitter apple and let him smell it........ sorry your puppy is so sick. Maybe a second opinion wouldn't hurt. Keep us posted....


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## NewOwner (Feb 21, 2014)

Thanks heart o'gold, I have gone to a local holistic pet store, and they have offered some suggestions. They seem to be knowledgeable and it's where I got the pumpkin.

I have to go pick up my youngest from school, but I'll bbl. thanks everyone for your words!


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## KeaColorado (Jan 2, 2013)

Did the vet give you anything to help firm things up? Like endosorb? How about probiotics to support a healthy gut? I absolutely agree with Heart o'gold's suggestion to find a holistic vet for an additional perspective. It does sound like a persistent coccidia or giardia problem, based on my own experiences with Kea after we brought her home. And she came from a well-respected breeder who was responsive and helpful and she STILL had a giardia-induced pooping troubles! 

That's great that it sounds like he's getting the hang of asking to go outside!


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

We have had soft stool issues with Duke almost the entire time we've had him (he's now 21 months and we got him at week 8). Pumpkin is a great addition! Also, we are adding metamucil to his pumpkin (1 tsp - 2 x day with 1/4 cup pumpkin - 2 x day). We just started but I'm optimisitic it will help. It sounds like you've ruled out parasites etc. Sounds like food allergies to me. When Duke was 7 months we put him on Royal Canin Hypoallergenic because we couldn't figure out which protein was causing his allergies. It's expensive, but less expensive than running to the vet every week. It's helped with the ear infections and constant licking, but the soft stools have been there the whole time. I think adding the metamucil and probiotic are helpful. Good luck with this and hang in there!


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I'm so sorry you're going thru this. What a disappointment and heartache! 

Is there a vet school near you? It definitely sounds parasitic to me, regardless of the negative tests. 

I would get a second opinion. If you feel your vet is doing all the right things, keep testing and treating for parasites. They can be so hard to get rid of.


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## cris (Jan 24, 2014)

I have no medical background or history to share, but I will say I wish you the best in this situation. Having a puppy is hard and stressful, and having a sick puppy multiplies this x 50. I hope it turns out well, I'm sure the little pup appreciates your patience. 

Sending you good health and happy vibes. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## samralf (Aug 11, 2012)

If I were you I would try a probiotic. They really helped my sheltie puppy and his poo issues.


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## Wenderwoman (Jan 7, 2013)

NewOwner said:


> Thanks, Wenderwoman! When I did speak to the breeder during the first week, she did mention one other family having issues, but stated their fecals were negative, too. She would not elaborate, and I felt (maybe wrongly so) she was being evasive. My vet was unhappy that the puppy was late on its first parvovirus shot as well, and that is originally why we suspected that as well initially. I didn't realize the puppy was late on its first vaccines until our vet said so from looking at breeder records. This does not help me toward trusting the breeder unfortunately. And once again, I'm so surprised, as there are families around us with dogs from her. And while the breeder wasn't super show expensive, she wasn't cheap.


This must be heart breaking for you. I know how it felt when it took so long to figure out the scabies. Then there were the worms that we treated her for 3 times. I also forgot about the overgrown bacteria from the water. That time, she had diarrhea and had to take antibiotics. But, my girl was gaining weight normally throughout and she was never really close to death.

I didn't get my pup from a breeder, I found them online. They were just a family that had Golden Puppies so they didn't do any of the things a breeder would do. At 8 weeks, my puppy didn't have any vaccines or dewormers. And, considering her skin issues, they would not begin vaccination until it was cleared up. Like I said, it was another 6 weeks before they even diagnosed it and then we had to wait a bit longer until she was considered well enough. I was terribly worried about her socialization the whole time because she shouldn't be outside or with other dogs really. Thankfully, it all seems to be behind us now though.

p.s. Once you get it all worked out, if you do decide to give your pup bananas, you can peel them and freeze them. Then you can just slice the frozen banana and give it to them frozen. I give about 1/2 a banana to my 70 pound girl. My girl loved em but not every dog likes the same thing. My girl also liked just plain ice cubes when she was teething. I'd give her a whole bowl of it and she'd chomp away.


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## samralf (Aug 11, 2012)

I would also try other foods. Just because your vet recommends a food doesn't always mean it is the best for your pup. Maybe get a second opinion from a different vet. I had horrible digestive issues with my first sheltie as well. I finally switched him over to preference by the honest kitchen with raw meat added and give him a Pancreatin enzyme with each meal. I give him the enzyme because he has pancreatitis.


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## GoldenRetrieverNewbie (Jan 28, 2014)

I'm a new golden puppy owner, too, and just wanted to offer my support. I don't have any helpful tips or advice (seems like you've gotten a lot of good stuff already, which is great!) but from what you've posted, it doesn't sound like you're taking this decision lightly, and I hope you aren't made to feel that way. I can imagine that it's extremely difficult to happily welcome a sweet little puppy into your family only to have it be far less than what you expected. Of course you expected mouthiness! Probably stressful moments and sleepless nights, too. But adding health concerns and veterinary bills to that would be incredibly challenging, especially after the build-up and excitement that goes with adding a new member to your family. I hope you're able to be at peace with whatever decision you choose to make. It sounds like your puppy is already getting the love and care he/she deserves, so for that reason, I truly hope it works out. Either way, I'll be thinking about you, your family and your precious pup. Best wishes to you all!


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## Care54A (Jul 15, 2013)

We had some issues with Bailey's stools for the first few weeks. He tested positive for parasites (after testing negative once before) at about 12 weeks old. Also, we had to find a food that wasn't too rich for his system. It felt never-ending. I can remember my husband asking, "Will this dog ever have a normal poop??" He has done great on Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream puppy formula that is salmon based, as opposed to chicken.

I think it's interesting that you're developing allergies over his fur since you already have a cat. I may be wrong, but I thought I remembered hearing (or reading) that you're more likely to have an allergic reaction to cats. 

The biting stage is terrible, but it gets better. Bailey is 9 months old and will still mouth us when he wants our attention, but he doesn't actually bite down the way he used to.

I see you're in the DC area, as are we. We're further south, but my mom, who lives in Alexandria, raves about Hometown Vet. I don't know if that's close to you, but if you were interested in a second opinion, I'd recommend starting there. Good luck!


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## Bosn'sMom (Feb 11, 2013)

we tried so many foods. we started with eukanuba, then switched to a higher quality with wellness and it was just too rich. he always had diaherria. we finally settled on natural balance sweet potato and venecin and it worked like a charm. 

we also did the fecal 3x and metronytazol to try to figure out the problem and the whole time it was just the food.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

I'm curious about this breeder. In your initial post, you described her as "a breeder who is known in our area," leading me to conclude (perhaps incorrectly) that this is an ethical breeder. But everything you describe about her sounds sketchy. What kind of breeder is this? Does she have a website? There are members in your area who might know the breeder or have some insight into puppies from this breeder. Do you mind telling us who it is?


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Hi there - and welcome. I definitely have some experience with the tummy issues. But I will say Shala was never near death and never wasn't gaining weight. So that is a red flag to me about your guy. My girl's issues were all parasitical (is that a word). It almost sounds more to me like your guy may have parvo or some other virus. But I am not a vet. Is it maybe worth having a fresh set of eyes look at your boy? It's sometimes just good to have someone come at it from a different place. Here's what we went through, if it helps at all:

My sweet girl had liquid diarrhea the first week. Tested negative for everything, but my vet treated it as Giardia just because it was behaving like it. She got so dehydrated at one point, from going every half hour, that she wound up on an IV drip for a day. I think she was first on Metro and something to treat Giardia. Her poop firmed up on the metro - the fact that your guy is not firming up on metro concerns me - only because I consider it the wonder drug when it comes to poop.

Week two - she got a UTI. Unrelated to the tummy isuues. Poop was okay... sort of soft... we thought the Clavamox, which she was on for the UTI may have been making her a little nauseous and affecting her poop. But the UTI cleared right up.

Week three - return to full on, crazy liquid diarrhea again and now blood. The blood was because of the irritation in her intestines. It looks scary but it's not as bad as it looks or sounds. So at this point (and my timelines may be foggy, I'd have to go back and read my own threads!) she had an ultrasound done on her belly to make sure there wasn't a blockage. And then lo and behold, we got a positive for Coccidia. 

Somewhere along the way, she had a really bad reaction to one of the meds and started to throw up. So we pulled that med.

Somewhere along the way, she was put on EN (the dry formula) and FortiFlora, and finally her tummy settled. (She was also on a 3-week course on Metro). The combination finally worked. We kept her on EN for a month until everything calmed down. We had a few good weeks, and then it flared up again. We put her back on EN. We eventually got a positive on Giardia, too. I am really foggy on timelines at this point. But - both coccidia and Giardia often flare up again, until their little immune systems get stronger. We put her back on the EN to help sooth things in her GI track - and this time, we kept her on it. She was on it until just two months ago (she is nine months now). But her last flare up was way back - probably in late October. 

All this to say, if the problem for your pup is a parasite, it could take a while, but it should clear up eventually. Shala was very gassy and bloated while all this was going on, too. When I would pick her up, her poor little belly would grumble, and she would tense up. I think it was when we got the positive on the coccidia and treated for that that I finally noticed she was a happier, more fun-loving pup. When she was sick, she was cranky and irritable. It was like the sun finally rose when she was better - and I saw my true happy, curious girl. She was truly a differnet puppy. So the behaviour you're seeing may also be related to him feeling crappy. 

I really hope this helps. I am still worried he is failing to thrive. As I said, Shala did continue to grow and gain weight all the way through her tummy issues. And I would say, we are stronger for having gone through those first tough weeks. I felt so bad for her - but it made me love her even more. The fur thing, I guess you will need to decide what to do. They don't really shed at all when they are pups, but as soon as their grown up fur starts to come in, the shedding does start, and it will continue every day for the rest of his life. 

Good luck - please let us know what happens.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

If you search the threads from OhioMom she has gone thru quite a bit with her Charlie until she finally got him on a good diet. If you have the time go thru her threads and read. I hope she will come in here and detail a little herself.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

I'm sorry your guy is so sick.
I may have missed it but have you tried just plain boiled hamburger and rice for several small meals for a few days?
When I brought Kenzie home she got pretty sick with diarrhea and vomiting and ended up at the ER vet. We never did get a firm diagnosis, but suspected it was coccidia and stress over a long car ride with 100' temps outside. 
It took about a week of feeding her a few tablespoons of boiled hamburger and rice every 2 or 3 hours with very slowly reintroducing kibble before she was back to normal.


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## Ohiomom9977 (Jul 27, 2012)

Claudia M said:


> If you search the threads from OhioMom she has gone thru quite a bit with her Charlie until she finally got him on a good diet. If you have the time go thru her threads and read. I hope she will come in here and detail a little herself.


 
I can briefly summarize my Charlie's history to save you the time of reading through my millions of posts on him  At about 3 months old his digestive issues started - initially with vomiting and then diarrhea. He was having loose stools and not gaining. Initially we'd fed him Iams Large Breed Puppy but switched to Purina EN because of the digestive issues. We then tried Purina Pro Plan Large Breed - vomiting returned. Both of those foods were chicken based so we tried Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream (salmon based) - this is when his diarrhea started. Between these switches were we're doing the Purnia EN as his stools were better on that, but he was VERY itchy on that food. All of his fecals were negative and we were getting nowhere with our vet.

At about 4 1/2 month old or so we decided to switch vets. Our new vet put him on California Naturals Lamb and Rice - his stools improved but were still on the soft side. Then they got worse again and had a very strong odor. Finally we got a fecal that showed coccidia. Our vet treated this with "Marquis" which is actually a horse medicine and canine coccidia is kind of an off label use of the med. This seemed to be a turning point for him and we had much more consistent stools after his coccidia treatment.

We were happy with the California Naturals but this spring they had a ton of recalls so we were left with no choice but to switch foods. He's now eating Natural Balance LID Lamb and Brown Rice. He has perfect stools every single time now since this switch and has been on that food almost a year now!!

At 19 months old he weighs 60 lbs and is very healthy and happy. I encourage you to give it more time. We too considered giving him back to the breeder. But the breeder was not much help with our issues and eventually just stopped responding to our messages. I was told when we first told her about his issues that in her many many years of breeding she's never had a dog with his issues and it almost made me feel like it was my fault. I'm so glad we kept him though and the problems did pass!! I think puppies are so much more sensitive and you'll notice alot of young dogs on here have digestive issues. Don't be afraid to shop around for vets or do your research on what could be the problem. 

Hope you're able to get it figured out!!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Ask your vet about a hypoallergenic diet and tylan... Love tylan...


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Tylan can work magic...


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

I love Tylan also! It worked wonders on one of my guys also


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## alwhite (Jan 6, 2008)

I have to agree with the post from mylissyk about the Blue Buffalo. My Golden is 2 years old now, but when we first brought him home we had terrible problems with constant diarrhea and vet visits. All the tests for parasites came back fine. After numerous bouts and rounds of antibiotics, my vet encouraged us to change his kibble and take him off the Blue Buffalo. My daughter who has an American Eskimo had to do the same thing. For some reason some dogs can't tolerate it. I'm sorry your puppy is having such a hard time. I know how exhausting it can be. Hang in there and know you are doing the best you can for your puppy.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Tylan was one of the meds Shala was put on. I *think* it came after the Giardia positive.


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## caseypooh (Dec 30, 2010)

Us too, both Jessie and Jake had horrible poohs on blue buffalo, Nutro Ultra is fine. Jake is 3 months now and it took a bit to get his pooh better. I think your little guy just needs time to adjust and a food change probably.


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

NewOwner said:


> THIS, exactly!! But my kids are 5 and 10. Same otherwise!


I called our Hazel "the terror of tiny town". I was lost, she bit so much and so hard and even would take down our 12 year old lab! Argh! It did get better. I hope it does for you too, your family, and the pup.

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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

We did tylan as well...it did help


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## Goldenhopeful (Dec 21, 2013)

NewOwner said:


> Goldenhopeful, Tucker is adorable! And great lineage too! Our puppy is near in birthdate, but doesn't look nearly as healthy. I may post a pick if we keep him, but I am trying to detach myself and make a responsible decision without emotion. If I let my emotions interfere, then I may not make the wisest choice. So for now, no pictures or name. Especially if the breeder may be on this site.


Thank you  We love our little Tucker Boo! 

I'm so sorry you're having so much trouble with your pup. I second the advice to see another vet... I really think it could help put a new perspective on his problems. Please let us know how he's doing... And I think you're doing a great job!! I think you should give it a little more time- after all look at all you've been through... Once he gets better you can put this all behind you and focus on building a wonderful bond. 

It also sounds like the breeder is really sketchy and not much help- I don't know if I'd even want to send the puppy back with her... I hope you can tell us who she is to help other families avoid a situation like this. 

Good luck and please let us know how you Guys are doing!


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