# Spay question for a non-Golden Retriever



## iPappy (Nov 30, 2021)

Hi everyone, I'm brand new here and in need of some advice.
I have a 5 1/2 pound, almost 16 month old Papillon girl. She has had one heat. My original plan was to spay her between 2-3 years of age. I have NO plans to breed her, and she is not out of my sight while outside with me in an Alcatraz-style fenced in yard (we live in a rural area, so neighbor dogs aren't a problem but I worry about hawks, etc.)
I've been working with our vets because at her age, she still has two retained puppy teeth. They didn't cause any problems with her bite or alignment, so we decided to keep playing tug (she LIVES for tug!) and offer all kinds of good chewies, which she loves to see if they'd come out. However, the teeth are holding fast and aren't even wiggly and we have all agreed they need to come out. Only in the past week or two has she began occasionally pawing at her face, so the teeth will be removed ASAP.
My question is about a spay while under for her teeth to be removed. I do not like the idea of having to put her under again in a year or so, and it just seems as though it'd be easier to do it all at once. I've read so much about the pros and cons of spaying vs. not spaying and spaying after 2,3, etc heats that my brain feels like cheese. I do realize a lot of these pros and cons affect larger breeds, but I'm still a little scared. I am also terrified of pyometra. I cleaned cages at a vet clinic when I was in high school and did see a few pyometra cases, and most of the dogs did not survive the surgery so that terrifies me. Any thoughts? My vet seems to think doing it all at once would be much easier on her (and me) but have not pressured me one way or the other. When she was very young, she had some problems holding her head steady/forward and we feared it was neurological, but she's 100% grown out of it (her neck seems to be double jointed, she can perform moves from the Exorcist with ease, so that's what we think that was all about).
Should I just dive in whole hog and spay her ASAP or wait a few more years? WWYD? Any advice or thoughts (or orders for me to calm the heck down, LOL) are appreciated. Thanks!


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## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

In a toy breed I wouldn’t worry as much about waiting to spay. And as long as she’s healthy, I would do the teeth and spay together.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

Agree with Tagrenine. With a papillon there isn’t as much value to keeping her intact, and if your vet thinks it’s safe to spay and pull teeth at the same time, I see no need to wait.

You may find this article interesting. It doesn’t make a recommendation for Papillons, but you may be able to extrapolate from one of the other toy breeds. Assisting Decision-Making on Age of Neutering for 35 Breeds of Dogs: Associated Joint Disorders, Cancers, and Urinary Incontinence


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## iPappy (Nov 30, 2021)

Tagrenine said:


> In a toy breed I wouldn’t worry as much about waiting to spay. And as long as she’s healthy, I would do the teeth and spay together.


Thank you. We do intend to do pre-op bloodwork, just to be safe and at her age it'd be nice to have a baseline for how her labs run (she's a raw fed dog) so we have something to compare with as she ages.



pawsnpaca said:


> Agree with Tagrenine. With a papillon there isn’t as much value to keeping her intact, and if your vet thinks it’s safe to spay and pull teeth at the same time, I see no need to wait.
> 
> You may find this article interesting. It doesn’t make a recommendation for Papillons, but you may be able to extrapolate from one of the other toy breeds. Assisting Decision-Making on Age of Neutering for 35 Breeds of Dogs: Associated Joint Disorders, Cancers, and Urinary Incontinence


This is a very interesting article, thank you! Another reason we opted to let her go through a heat is as a puppy she had a vulva that wasn't 100% normal (I can't remember the word), and were told letting her have a heat would "pop" it back into place, which it did. She does have a grade 1 luxation of her patella, so the joint concerns did worry me but it doesn't seem to make a huge difference in the smaller dogs.

I won't lie--I am not looking forward to spay coat, but that's just cosmetic


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

iPappy said:


> I won't lie--I am not looking forward to spay coat, but that's just cosmetic


FWIW I’ve had three spayed Goldens and none of them had a spay coat, so it’s not an inevitable result of spaying…


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## iPappy (Nov 30, 2021)

pawsnpaca said:


> FWIW I’ve had three spayed Goldens and none of them had a spay coat, so it’s not an inevitable result of spaying…


Oh good. I'm hoping she won't, but if she does I'll still love the little turd, just spend more time grooming! My (much older) male definitely has "spay" coat, but I'm so used to him looking like he looks I think the extra floof is beautiful on him. 🥰


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## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

What about an ovary sparing spay? That's what I'm doing in March with my 3 year old golden.


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## iPappy (Nov 30, 2021)

Taz Monkey said:


> What about an ovary sparing spay? That's what I'm doing in March with my 3 year old golden.


I've considered this. I've done some reading and, like later spays, it seems to be more beneficial for larger dogs? I found a repro vet that can do this. 
I don't know. Having a dog spayed or neutered used to be a simple routine thing we did for our dogs when I was a kid, now it's so stressful!


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## iPappy (Nov 30, 2021)

Update: My girl is going in for her surgery this Friday morning.

It's Ok, I'll be fine. I breathe into a small paper bag all the time.


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## iPappy (Nov 30, 2021)

For anyone still following/reading...

She had her surgeries this morning and is back home. She's been alert all day but content to lay on her bed and in her ex pen when I need to make sure she won't try to jump or do something she shouldn't. She's eaten well and taken her pain medications but is obviously very sore.
I'm very glad I went ahead and had everything done at once so God willing she won't have to do any of this again!

Thanks to all for the kind thoughts and advice, as well as all the knowledge and information this site has provided me for many years.


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