# (Almost) daily updates after TPLO



## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

I know several people with dogs that have had TPLO surgery. A couple dogs I train with frequently had it at about 3 years and you would never guess it if you saw them running today.
Follow your vets advice and have a plan in place for the rehab.


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

My 7 year old golden had a TTA surgery last June the first weeks were rough. I was so greatful I work from home and was able to be here with him minus my office being upstairs and he had to stay downstairs and sleep down here.

We bought a open pen vs a crate has he has never been create trained and I didn’t want to force that fear on him all of a sudden. We set up his area a few weeks prior to surgery got him used to it, we have tile so I bought foam flooring for inside his pen. He did amazing going in and out of it on his own during his recovery. I could also just open one of the sides and go sit in there with him to do heat/cold compression and exercises. We did this 3-4 times a day for the first 4 weeks. Taking him outside on the lead was rough at times as he wanted to keep pulling and walk further then he should.

We got so lucky that we found a rehabilitation mobility vet 10 minutes from our house and he went there once a week for 15 weeks for 3 hours and they gave us detailed exercises each phase to do at home. And they were able to address other joint issues and weight issues he had and now he still goes for a recheck with that vet every 6 weeks.

My biggest suggestions is do your research I saved so many different sites lots of vets list their recovery programs though I’m sure you’ll get one it’s good to compare here is the link for the main one I used along with the info 




https://www.medvetforpets.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/MEDV-0025_PDG_tta_tplo_r1305_wm.pdf



Sit up a small comfortable space for recovery keep that area clean and sanitized infection is very common.

Find a cone that works for your dog. We tried a few and 3 days in he got out of one cone and tore out all his staples! It was the worse experience ever waking up to that at 3am… luckily there was no blood or anything it turned out okay we took him right into the vet in the morning. this was the e-collar we had the best success with. 
ZenPet Pet Recovery Cone E-Collar... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00YGXNM3Y?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Don’t be alarmed if the leg is very bruised and swollen I was not prepared for that.

It will be a long road and it’s going to take extra care but it will be worth it. I remember the first day we actually went for a walk, and when he finally could come upstairs and sleep. It’s rough but just take it day by day! 10 months later our golden is finally 90 % of the time sitting normal again!


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

SRW said:


> I know several people with dogs that have had TPLO surgery. A couple dogs I train with frequently had it at about 3 years and you would never guess it if you saw them running today.
> Follow your vets advice and have a plan in place for the rehab.


I second this see if there are any rehabilitation locations in your area or do your research for a rehab plan at home.


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Goldenretrievermama0217 said:


> I second this see if there are any rehabilitation locations in your area or do your research for a rehab plan at home.


Even 10 months later we still do daily at home exercises


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Rehab will be very very expensive If you don't do it yourself. It isn't difficult, just time consuming. 
One of the dogs I know won a field trial amateur stake exactly one year after TPLO. For those not familiar with field trials, winning an amateur is a very difficult task, both mentally and physically.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Several years ago our Max tore his left ACL when about 7 years of age. We tried rest for a couple of months, but determined that surgery was the best option. Max was a big boy--over 100 pounds. We found a vet in San Diego who used a board certified traveling orthopedic surgeon for TPLO procedures. I took Max in at 8am and picked him up at 4:30 for the 80 mile ride home. He walked out of the vet office and we lifted him into the back seat of my truck. We used a ramp for him to walk out of the truck and into the house. We kept him in an x-pen in the living room, and took him out on a leash to potty. His activity was limited for about 14 to 16 weeks during which time we gradually increased his walking. By around 18 to 20 weeks he was completely healed and we resumed normal activities. We went back to the vet a couple of times for check-ups and one set of x-rays. There was zero physical therapy.





















Max lived the rest of his life completely normal, with swimming, running and retrieving like any Golden Retriever, plus a lot of therapy dog work. We paid a flat fee of $2600. One of the pictures shows Max in his cone, which was huge and a real pain.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Thank you for all the replies and links to medvet pdf…that’s really useful. It's so reassuring to know there’s light at the end of the tunnel! (and Max looks like he was an amazing dog!).
Eva has never really happy in a crate so I'll set up a pen. Luckily she is fine wearing a cone, and we had to get a huge one when she had a hot spot on her tail. Looks like I have to plan for the worst and hope for the best.
Should I set up a pen at the back of the house near the garden so she doesn't have to walk through the (not so big) house? Eva “only’ weighs 61 pounds so I can carry her around, but I’d be worried about squeezing her leg as I do. We have tiles too, but have some old carpet we can put down.
The worst bit is that the vet isn’t 100% certain it’s a CCL issue, but can’t think what else it can be. He doesn’t want to do a CT or MRI scan as this means another anaesthesetic and the cost could be thousands, so would rather wait until the orthopaedic surgeon sees her in 3 weeks who _may_ decide to operate then after some more X-rays. So….I don’t even know if she’ll have the TPLO, but need to plan for it. So much uncertainty! By the way, in the UK it’s around £4.5k, so $5.8k, luckily we’re insured!


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Thank you for all the replies. It's so reassuring (and Max looks like he was an amazing dog!).
> Eva has never really happy in a crate so I'll set up a pen. Luckily she is fine wearing a cone, and we had to get a huge one when she had a hot spot on her tail. Looks like I have to plan for the worst and hope for the best.
> Should I set up a pen at the back of the house near the garden so she doesn't have to walk through the (not so big) house? Eva “only’ weighs 61 pounds so I can carry her around, but I’d be worried about squeezing her leg as I do. We have tiles too, but have some old carpet we can put down.
> The worst bit is that the vet isn’t 100% certain it’s a CCL issue, but can’t think what else it can be. He doesn’t want to do a CT or MRI scan as this means another anaesthesetic and the cost could be thousands, so would rather wait until the orthopaedic surgeon sees her in 3 weeks who _may_ decide to operate then after some more X-rays. So….I don’t even know if she’ll have the TPLO, but need to plan for it. So much uncertainty! By the way, in the UK it’s around £4.5k, so $5.8k, luckily we’re insured!


I’d suggest setting up a pen at the back of the house near the garden that way she won’t need to walk as far. That is what we did with Gower. My biggest suggestion is setting it up asap so you can get her used to it. We would go inside it with him to get him used to it; and put some toys in and he’d start going in by himself so by the time his surgery came he was used to it and was comfortable in the pen. Here is gower in his pen prior to surgery that opening was covered with the door we just hadn’t added it yet and once we put the door on we zip tied it shut. If she is a jumper I’d definitely work with in the pen prior.









Gower stayed in the pen for at least the first 4 weeks minus to go out to go potty. With the pen we had like i mentioned we could just open it up and sit in there with him to to do exercises and spend time with him. Once you do allow her to have a bit more free roam make sure any furniture is blocked so she cannot jump and if you have stairs make sure those are blocked off too.

This photo was the day he came home which was 24 hours after his surgery








Him getting his cold compression









Enjoying his recovery time with all his friends








Finally getting to see his cousin after 3 months









His graduation from rehab









here is doing amazing now 10 months post surgery and he is down 20lbs he was 96lbs when he had he is able to keep up with his 2 year old golden cousin and 6 month old golden cousin











I understand the frustration with it possibly only being a partial tear that was what we were experiencing with Gower our vet said he wouldn’t be able to determine that with an x-ray and even with a partial tear he’d still like to go in and operate. Gower actually didn’t have x-rays till the morning of the surgery the vet we had it done with prefers to wait till the day of the surgery so they do not need to put them under anesthesia twice and if sees anything on the x-ray that will change the surgical plan he would call. It did turn out gower’s wasn’t fully torn yet but the surgery was still the best option we had the TTA for him as I mentioned prior. I know it is a very tough decision I was a nervous wreck we went through a vet who does many of these surgeries vs a specialist as the specialist weren’t taking even an initial appointment for 2 months. 

That’s wonderful you are insured! Unfortunately o Gower wasn’t and a year prior to that I had been seriously looking into insurance for him but hindsight is 20/20 with his surgery and rehab for 12 weeks and follow ups we spent around $4,500.

Since you do have insurance for her do you know if your insurance covers any rehabilitation options? I am not sure if they do have vets there that do have rehabilitation services near where you live but it could be something to look into if the insurance will cover it. Of course rehab is possible to do at home and we did a lot of at home rehab but having the weekly session with the rehab vet for 12 weeks was wonderful as we got at home exercise, and they also did under water treadmill rehab and as well as cold laser therpy was all included in the package they offered.

I wish you the best of luck with you and your golden! It will be a long recovery but following the timeline your vet gives you is best. Just try to keep her as calm as possible For the weeks after the surgery with her being young that might a challenge but even at any age a golden still acts like a puppy.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Thank you! Lovely to see Gower too! This is Eva last week on one of our very short walks!









Good ideas, I'll set up the pen this weekend, luckily I kept all the kit from when she was a puppy. She normally sleeps in the hallway (we have a stairgate and all doors closed) but when the postman comes she does get excited, so the back of the house will be quieter too. I suspect I'm going to be sleeping downstairs for a while !

We had the same option as you. Wait 2 months to go to a specialist centre or 3 weeks for our local vetinary surgeon to do it. Our vet told me that if his dog needed this surgery he'd have no hesitation in asking the local surgeon...so that swung it. Also, at a centre you don't necessarily know who's going to perform the operation. We still have the booking at the specialist centre in case the surgeon decides not to operate, where they can do CT or MRI scans.

I think my insurance does cover £1000 of "physio", sounds like it's worth doing. Especially as we have a holiday/vacation booked at a cottage by the sea in mid-August. I'm not expecting to let her off the lead then, but it would be nice if we could walk the 1/2 mile to the beach and back. That'll be 3 months after surgery. Do you think that'll be do-able?

Although Eva's only 2 1/2 she is very calm in the house, most of the time. She can get a little excited when we have visitors but she's hopelessly lazy and given the chance will sleep her days away. We've had days recently with no walks and she's been absolutely fine. That was a bit of an eye opener for me...we usually do about 2 hours walking a day... turns out she'd rather sleep!

Thanks again for all the support and advice...I'm also a nervous wreck and was getting worse so it's very much appreciated!


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Thank you! Lovely to see Gower too! This is Eva last week on one of our very short walks!
> View attachment 891726
> 
> 
> ...


She is very beautiful! Such a sweet girl.

I understand the issue with a vet vs the specialist. I don’t regret the vet doing the surgery. we had found him from a recommendation from a golden Facebook group in Orlando, FL. He has done many of these surgeries and seemed to have decent reviews. However our experience with the follow up appointment was very interesting…We took gower for his follow up they did x-rays not under sedation, there was construction going on outside the building and our boy has very bad anxiety with loud noises so they x-rays were not very clear. The vet reviewed them with us and mentioned he didn’t like the way the bone was heeling and there was a chance the hardware could break and he wanted to schedule surgery for the following week for another $1,30 -but he might not need it but it’s better to do it then not. He was not being very clear at all what the issue actually was, it was very interesting and myself and husband felt very confused when we left that appointment. When we got home I called our rehabilitation vet and she called me back after hours and talked over everything with me that happen, she was very confused as well as to why the vet wanted to do a second surgery. She calmed my nerves and set up for gower to have sedated x-rays and she would send them to the animal hospital that is the board certified surgeon to review - we had the x-rays done she got an opinion from the radiologist, as well as 3 other vets on a special vet forum. All concluded the x-rays look fine and he is healing just fine. They said without a bone graft the bone wouldn’t fill in, so they had no idea why our vet said that.During this process we made an appointment at a board certified surgeon to get a 3rd opinion just to verify same results that he was healing wonderfully.

If you feel that comfortable with the vet doing the operation and they do have experience doing many of these operations and they are able to do it sooner I would do it with the vet.

If your insurance covers a rehab things definitely look at what options are in your area. In terms of your holiday to the beach - at 3 months post-op she should be fine to walk down to the beach some dogs recovery faster then others. I know at 3 months we were doing at least 2 (20) minute walks a day. Just use caution as we had multiple vets tell us there is a 50 % chance they’ll tear the other knee within the year. I’m still very cautions with gower - I just can’t imagine having to put him through that again.

That is good she is fairly calm it will help with recovery. I know I was a nervous wreck as well, I’d stay up all night doing research and preparing. It will be hard at first seeing them in so much pain but you know it is what is best for them long term.


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

One thing with Gower he did have a TTA - which I know for Eva she may have the TPLO so from what I’ve read the recovery time may be longer with the TPLO so she may not be ready at 3 months for the walks to the beach.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Oh, so sorry to hear about all that confusion, what a nightmare. I thought that that kind of thing only happened to me! Very glad that you got that sorted so well.

I also read TPLO takes a little longer than TTA, but I'm hoping her age and weight will help with recovery. If not then we'll just have to enjoy the views of the beach and sea. 😭

I heard 60% go on to having it on the other knee. I'm hoping because I spotted this early, and reducing her exercise now before it's got bad, the damage will be minimised. I mean, when I take her to the vets, no one can see a limp - they've only seen it on the videos I've taken when she gets up from rest.

There again I worry that it's not a ACL issue at all, and perhaps something else, but x-rays seem to have ruled out other options, I hope.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Getting her used to her new home. I'll be putting a rug down too!


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Getting her used to her new home. I'll be putting a rug down too!
> View attachment 891749


Looks great! And perfect that it will be right near the garden to go out.


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Oh, so sorry to hear about all that confusion, what a nightmare. I thought that that kind of thing only happened to me! Very glad that you got that sorted so well.
> 
> I also read TPLO takes a little longer than TTA, but I'm hoping her age and weight will help with recovery. If not then we'll just have to enjoy the views of the beach and sea. 😭
> 
> ...


Oh that’s interesting that they can’t see that she’s limping when she’s there. When she sits down is she sticking the leg out to the side at all or she still sitting normally? I know that is also one test they use for it. With gower you could see him limping right away, and he’d sit with his like out.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Well, they can tell she's not really bearing weight on it when standing still, but she walks quite normally (after the 20 seconds from resting). She does sit with her leg out sometimes..but prefers to lie down!

I think a lot of people would ignore the 20 second limp and do nothing until things got worse. But the vet got it when I showed the videos, she really looks in pain then. And 5 weeks later there's no improvement.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Goldenretrievermama0217 said:


> Looks great! And perfect that it will be right near the garden to go out.


Yes! There's a step or two but nothing much, I've read that supporting her weight with a towel under her belly for a day or two will help with the steps.


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Yes! There's a step or two but nothing much, I've read that supporting her weight with a towel under her belly for a day or two will help with the steps.


I’ve heard some vets say full flights of stairs are fine even a few weeks post op… another example of our vet who did the surgery he said he was fine to do stairs at 4 weeks….. our rehab vet didn’t clear him until after 16 weeks.


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Goldenretrievermama0217 said:


> I’ve heard some vets say full flights of stairs are fine even a few weeks post op… another example of our vet who did the surgery he said he was fine to do stairs at 4 weeks….. our rehab vet didn’t clear him until after 16 weeks.


We had a few little step out to our yard as well not very high ones so he was just fine.


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Well, they can tell she's not really bearing weight on it when standing still, but she walks quite normally (after the 20 seconds from resting). She does sit with her leg out sometimes..but prefers to lie down!
> 
> I think a lot of people would ignore the 20 second limp and do nothing until things got worse. But the vet got it when I showed the videos, she really looks in pain then. And 5 weeks later there's no improvement.


Of course it would be wonderful if it’s not a torn acl but the fact you caught it early and if it turns out to be and she’s only 2.5 it will be much better for her in the long run.

did your vet put her on any medication? I know our vet at the time before we went to the guy who did the surgery he put him on gabapentin and carprofen and told us to try shorter walks but we did that and no improvement. I think it started around the begging of May and at the end of June we had the surgery done. I had tried for two weeks to get him into our normal vet and they didn’t seem to care he couldn’t hardly walk. i was never a huge fan of his general veterinary but it worked and they offered a cast member (Disney employee discount so it worked out) but after his surgery we found the rehab center and they also did general vet care as well so she was out vet now and gower loved her so much as he spent 3 hours with her each week for 13 weeks and then every 4 weeks she’d spend an hour doing a recheck with him. She is incredible. Sadly we found out during our last recheck she is moving to a new practice that solely is rehabilitation that is an hour away and will no longer be doing general vet work, I’ll still take gower out there for his rechecks as he gets older as we did discover through all this he has arthritis that is why we still to this day have a daily exercises we do.We will miss her being 10 minutes from the house and our general vet. So now I’m on the lookout for a new vet 😔


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

That's one thing less to worry about then! I've attached (I think) the fact sheet from the specialist centre nearby (the one we're not using because the waiting list is too long). They sound so much more relaxed! I'm hoping to strike a balance between their laid back approach and wrapping her in cotton wool for 4 months!


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Just saw your reply about painkillers etc (sorry!). Yes, she has been on Gabapentin and short walks, and we saw improvement. But, as soon as I slightly lengthened the walks and let her gently off lead in the garden, then the limping would start again. Yeah, totally understand why you'd continue to use a favourite vet, rehab centre, etc. We have (had) a dog walker once a week, we don't really need one now as I work from home but Eva absolutely adores her and playing with her group of friends... there was no way I could cancel it! Sadly, I've had to now, but hope to return eventually!


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

Our senior Golden had TPLO surgery three years ago (all went well). However- I am concerned that it has taken you so long to get a definitive diagnosis. It took our vet 5 minutes to determine it was a partial tear. An x-ray isn’t going to show much- we were immediately sent to a specialist surgeon who did an ultra sound. VERY glad we went with a specialist as surgery is the tip of the iceberg. The detailed recovery and rehab process is critical to a full recovery. Our dog was in a small xpen for four weeks- Fentanyl patch for the first 24 hours, then medicam as needed- only out to pee and poop with the sling. He had laser therapy and physiotherapy during this time and we did physio at home twice a day. At five weeks, he started hydro therapy once a week in addition to the physio. At 8 weeks- short walks with the sling and post op x-rays. No stairs running or jumping for four months. Today, you can’t even see a scar- amazing. As for having a GP vet do it- would not be my choice.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

hi Sevans, I’m also concerned it’s taking so long to get a definite diagnosis. The vet who I like and did the original examination and X-rays has ruled out anything else and the specialist centre doesn’t have a availability until 6th June. He’s therefore recommending the local (well he covers a wide area and a large hospital in North London) canine orthopaedic specialist and does TPLOs almost daily. So, I don’t have an issue with that and he’ll perform this at our local surgery/hospital only 2 miles away. But I’m worried that Eva’s symptoms are so slight that it may not be a clear diagnosis and worse case a TPLO is performed and that wasn’t the issue. But that’s me…always looking for the worse case!
The veterinary team are good here, I’m sure we’ll get lots of good advice and support from them…..plus I have this forum!


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

I forgot to mention the original X-rays (which I have and can post here if anyone’s interested!) do show slight swelling in her knee. I can see something different between her left and right knee, I’d had to take the vet’s word that it’s swelling!


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

Neili said:


> That's one thing less to worry about then! I've attached (I think) the fact sheet from the specialist centre nearby (the one we're not using because the waiting list is too long). They sound so much more relaxed! I'm hoping to strike a balance between their laid back approach and wrapping her in cotton wool for 4 months!


I would go the cotton wool approach- the rehab is critical- and the sheet from your specialist looks pretty general and not nearly as restrictive as what the three specialists we consulted with all concurred upon. There is also no mention of physiotherapy which is required daily- they can show you how to do it yourself- though we elected to do it at home and to work with the DVM physio. We also used laser and hydro therapies- we were fortunate to be able to assume these costs and realize that not everyone may be able to do so- but physio is a must do.


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

Neili said:


> hi Sevans, I’m also concerned it’s taking so long to get a definite diagnosis. The vet who I like and did the original examination and X-rays has ruled out anything else and the specialist centre doesn’t have a availability until 6th June. He’s therefore recommending the local (well he covers a wide area and a large hospital in North London) canine orthopaedic specialist and does TPLOs almost daily. So, I don’t have an issue with that and he’ll perform this at our local surgery/hospital only 2 miles away. But I’m worried that Eva’s symptoms are so slight that it may not be a clear diagnosis and worse case a TPLO is performed and that wasn’t the issue. But that’s me…always looking for the worse case!
> The veterinary team are good here, I’m sure we’ll get lots of good advice and support from them…..plus I have this forum!


If it’s not torn, they will be able to see that whe they operate- however, an MRI would give you a definitive diagnosis. Best wishes with this.The good news is that with correct rehab and a good surgeon- your dog will recover fully.


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## lfisher818 (Aug 16, 2018)

SRW said:


> I know several people with dogs that have had TPLO surgery. A couple dogs I train with frequently had it at about 3 years and you would never guess it if you saw them running today.
> Follow your vets advice and have a plan in place for the rehab.


Same here. My GSD has had both done one year apart, and he is stronger than ever! Best decision I made. Thank goodness for pet insurance!


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## goldens9 (Apr 7, 2020)

Skip the painful tplo and tta surgery. Many do have bad side effects and the vets will not tell you as they want to sell the surgery.
Skip the surgeon. No need for any surgeon. We know first hand with our Golden, and have several friends that also skipped the painful knee surgery for their dogs.
The most effective alternative is a custom dog knee brace. We went with the posh dog knee brace and from the time the custom posh dog knee brace was fitted, we were able to walk our golden for shorts walks on day one, in a week there was improvement and longer dog walks. Our golden had a fully torn acl ccl knee and fully recovered wearing the posh dog knee brace. Without the painful tplo tta knee surgery. No risk of side effects. It was the best decision we made and saved our golden from very painful knee surgery. We did have pet insurance that paid for 90% of the brace. We could have bought the surgery too since we had pet insurance but we wanted to make the best decision for our Golden to avoid a very painful knee surgery.
The vet was not happy that it worked so well, as the vet was desperate to sell the painful knee surgery for $5500 and knowing the surgery would displace the knee ever slightly, as surgery can never put the knee exactly in place like nature, so the risk of the other knee tearing was very high, so the vet planned on making $10,000+ for two surgeries.
So there are the very effective recovery with a posh brace.


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

goldens9 said:


> Skip the painful tplo and tta surgery. Many do have bad side effects and the vets will not tell you as they want to sell the surgery.
> Skip the surgeon. No need for any surgeon. We know first hand with our Golden, and have several friends that also skipped the painful knee surgery for their dogs.
> The most effective alternative is a custom dog knee brace. We went with the posh dog knee brace and from the time the custom posh dog knee brace was fitted, we were able to walk our golden for shorts walks on day one, in a week there was improvement and longer dog walks. Our golden had a fully torn acl ccl knee and fully recovered wearing the posh dog knee brace. Without the painful tplo tta knee surgery. No risk of side effects. It was the best decision we made and saved our golden from very painful knee surgery. We did have pet insurance that paid for 90% of the brace. We could have bought the surgery too since we had pet insurance but we wanted to make the best decision for our Golden to avoid a very painful knee surgery.
> The vet was not happy that it worked so well, as the vet was desperate to sell the painful knee surgery for $5500 and knowing the surgery would displace the knee ever slightly, as surgery can never put the knee exactly in place like nature, so the risk of the other knee tearing was very high, so the vet planned on making $10,000+ for two surgeries.
> So there are the very effective recovery with a posh brace.


You paint a very opportunistic portrait of board certified surgeons. Yes, a dog can ”recover” from a torn cruciate without surgery but it is NOT repaired. Your dog will face the long term effects of your choice when the inevitable arthritis sets in much sooner than need be. Further- that joint will nver be stable because the ligament has not been replaced with structural support. Did you consider that instead of assuming that your surgeon was not working in the best interest of your dog- that the company that promotes the inexpensive knee brace lured you away from science to sell you their product? A German Short Haired Pointer two doors up from us blew her cruciate a few weeks before our Golden. They opted to “give it time” and used a brace. The dog was on three legs for nearly a year, had a permanent limp, and refused to swim (used to swim literally every day in warm weather). She is now on daily NSAID and is 6 years old.


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## lfisher818 (Aug 16, 2018)

goldens9 said:


> Skip the painful tplo and tta surgery. Many do have bad side effects and the vets will not tell you as they want to sell the surgery.
> Skip the surgeon. No need for any surgeon. We know first hand with our Golden, and have several friends that also skipped the painful knee surgery for their dogs.
> The most effective alternative is a custom dog knee brace. We went with the posh dog knee brace and from the time the custom posh dog knee brace was fitted, we were able to walk our golden for shorts walks on day one, in a week there was improvement and longer dog walks. Our golden had a fully torn acl ccl knee and fully recovered wearing the posh dog knee brace. Without the painful tplo tta knee surgery. No risk of side effects. It was the best decision we made and saved our golden from very painful knee surgery. We did have pet insurance that paid for 90% of the brace. We could have bought the surgery too since we had pet insurance but we wanted to make the best decision for our Golden to avoid a very painful knee surgery.
> The vet was not happy that it worked so well, as the vet was desperate to sell the painful knee surgery for $5500 and knowing the surgery would displace the knee ever slightly, as surgery can never put the knee exactly in place like nature, so the risk of the other knee tearing was very high, so the vet planned on making $10,000+ for two surgeries.
> So there are the very effective recovery with a posh brace.


I respectably disagree with you on this, because every dog is different. We tried the conservative approach first, and it made the injury worse. The x-ray showed clearly what we already knew. The total recovery time wasn't very long. Yes, the first surgery was painful, but after he tore the other a year later; that surgery was easy and he recovered very quickly. He is a healthier, stronger dog than he was before.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

goldens9 said:


> Our golden had a fully torn acl ccl knee and fully recovered wearing the posh dog knee brace.


Wrong
Torn ACL/CCL don’t heal in dogs, people or anything else. That’s a fact look it up. If your dog or any other dog you know of “healed” after using a brace they never had a tear in the first place.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

2 weeks and 1 day to go until our TPLO. Thanks for all the thoughts, good to hear and I know everyone's circumstances are different, which of course effect their decision. In my circumstances, our vet originally referred us to a specialist orthopaedic centre for the op, for which they wouldn't be paid (possibly they'd get a referral fee) but the waiting list was too long so we explored other options. Another vet in the practice suggested the specialist who reviewed Eva's x-rays. He's not based at our local vet, he's the group's orthopaedic specialist, very senior and he's based at a hospital in London but will visit here to perform the op, which he does "all the time". The vet also said that MRI/ultrasound now would be too expensive and unnecessary risk (another anaesthetic). 
So I'm comfortable it's not about the money.
I'm also comfortable that TPLO is the way to go. Eva's a young dog and my best friend, and I want the best for her. ( She must know I wrote that, she's just come over and is trying the nudge the phone from hand so she can get cuddles!) ...we'll get through this together.
Btw, we're being very careful with exercise at the moment. 20 min lead walks only and lead on in the garden is until she's calm (otherwise, as soon as I let her out, she loves to charge around checking for squirrels). And so her limp is not noticeable but I can tell she's not putting any weight on this hind leg. When she's standing still I can lift this paw just by touching it with my finger. Her right leg is firmly planted and, although I only did this once, if I left that right leg she nearly fell over...her left hind leg just can't take the weight. She also limps after resting until she's had a stretch or walked 5 steps. It's been like this for 5 or 6 weeks now.


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## goldens9 (Apr 7, 2020)

I went to 3 vets all confirmed my Golden had a fully torn acl ccl. 
Yes my Golden fully recovered wearing a custom posh dog knee brace.
No arthritis as we used a whole range of natural joint supplements, and switched to a mostly raw diet and numerous natural supplements.
Arthritis is much worse in dogs that get the surgery as the surgical invasion causes more damage to the joint.
I was in the health care field for awhile so I learned the dangers of allopathic medicine and not to automatically believe what a surgeon or doctor may tell you as they are always more interested in their income and commission, then in what is best for the patient, whether human or pet. 
Health care professionals have to sell whatever the doctor orders even if it is not in the best interest of the patient, human or pet, as 
money is the bottom line in allopathic, all is profit, medicine that we have today. Study true health history then you can learn the truth.
We did our research and did what was the best for our Golden and we had pet insurance that paid 90% of the veterinary bill whether we bought the very painful knee surgery with severe side effects or a dog knee brace with no bad side effects.
The pet insurance paid 90% of the dog knee brace as the pet insurance knows that many many dogs have fully recovered from a fully torn acl ccl knee joint tear wearing a proven custom fit dog knee brace, otherwise
the pet insurance never would have paid for the custom acl ccl posh dog knee brace.
Please be open minded to learning that there are more then one way to treat any injury or illness.
I know these days it is very hard to research true health as everything is based on what makes the highest profits, pays the highest commissions, regardless of what is best for the patient, human or animal. Money is the bottom line in health care today for both pets and humans.
We started learning many years ago, so yes we are more informed then most about pet health care and human health care.
Don't be mad if someone uses a better solution then you, as you may not be aware of the better alternative solutions or your doctor or surgeon did not tell you as they didn't want you to know.
Good luck and hope your golden recovers with no pain and no bad side effects.


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

goldens9 said:


> I went to 3 vets all confirmed my Golden had a fully torn acl ccl.
> Yes my Golden fully recovered wearing a custom posh dog knee brace.
> No arthritis as we used a whole range of natural joint supplements, and switched to a mostly raw diet and numerous natural supplements.
> Arthritis is much worse in dogs that get the surgery as the surgical invasion causes more damage to the joint.
> ...


I completely disagree with you. While neutraceuticals can certainly support science -based veterinary care, they do not relpace it. Your dog has not “recovered” as the ligament is severed and there is no structure replacing it. IF you understood the physiology of the injury- you wouldn’t be so susceptible able to homeopathic hocus-pocus. Please show me the peer reviewed, unbiased academic articles that support your claim that the OCD caused by TPLO surgery is greater than igoring the injury and supporting it with a brace. Your condemnation of veterinary surgeons as money grasping profiteers is appallingly misguided. These people dedicate their lives to the well being of animals and I have worked alongside some of the best. As for your “the pet insurance knows that many many dogs have fully recovered from a fully torn acl ccl knee joint tear wearing a proven custom fit dog knee brace” that is poppycock. Your insurance company was no doubt thrilled that they only had to pay out for a brace instead of the surgery. I would also like to see your clinical, unbiased evidence that dogs with torn cruciate ligaments have “fully recovered” without surgery.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

I dropped Eva off at the vet's this morning and she's having surgery as I type. They're going to keep her in for the night, which they say is normal as she'll have an epidural which means less anaesthetic but they like to keep her there until all the effects wear off. Anxious times right now as I wait for the phone call once it's all done. 
We went through the recuperation, which sounds very familiar to what I've read, mainly no walks except garden visits for two weeks and definitely no jumping or stairs until x-rays are done in 6 to 8 weeks. The pen is set up and I've been getting her used to sitting in there while I'm somewhere else in the house. She's one for normally following me around or at least making sure I can't get anywhere without her knowing about it! I'll share more here later when I get the facts sheet and everything has sunk in. Right now I'm pleased that we're doing something and looking forward to 3 months time when hopefully we'll be back to near normal, but I'm absolutely dreading tomorrow and seeing what's been done to her.


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

Neili said:


> I dropped Eva off at the vet's this morning and she's having surgery as I type. They're going to keep her in for the night, which they say is normal as she'll have an epidural which means less anaesthetic but they like to keep her there until all the effects wear off. Anxious times right now as I wait for the phone call once it's all done.
> We went through the recuperation, which sounds very familiar to what I've read, mainly no walks except garden visits for two weeks and definitely no jumping or stairs until x-rays are done in 6 to 8 weeks. The pen is set up and I've been getting her used to sitting in there while I'm somewhere else in the house. She's one for normally following me around or at least making sure I can't get anywhere without her knowing about it! I'll share more here later when I get the facts sheet and everything has sunk in. Right now I'm pleased that we're doing something and looking forward to 3 months time when hopefully we'll be back to near normal, but I'm absolutely dreading tomorrow and seeing what's been done to her.


The recovery period is challenging - especially since after the first few days- she is going to want to do much more than she is allowed to and micro managing a pent up pup to allow healing is, I think, harder on us than it is on them. I know with James, that after about a week and a half- I could barely see a limp and he was clearly confused by why he wasn’t being allowed to do his normal things- but that restricted movement is SO important. Thinking of you- keep us posted!


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Well....

I got a call from the surgeon. He told me that when Eva was mildly sedated she wasn't reacting to any knee manipulation but really did when he applied pressure around her ankle. (She'd previously yelped when he pushed her knee during consultation so CCL seemed very likely.)

So, he cancelled the surgery as he wasn't convinced, in fact he's pretty much rulled out, a CCL injury. 

I guess that proves how honest the vet surgery is, but we're a bit lost as to what the issue is. X-ray of her ankle don't show anything unusual, so we're back to think soft tissue or something the x-ray hasn't shown.

He's booking her in for a CT scan and the opinion of an orthopedic specialist at a centre nearby.

In the meantime it's short lead walks and we're going to try the anti inflammatory pain killers again in a few days (can't remember the name now). We stopped taking them originally because they appeared to cause diarrhea, but he wondered if that was a reaction to the anaesthetic. So, we'll wait a few days for the anaesthetic to be out of the system (and any associated diarrhea) and try again.

After speaking to the specialist he may also suggest a bandage to restrict ankle movement.

She's also got a shaved leg since they did that in pre-op. Oh well, now we're both bald!


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

Neili said:


> Well....
> 
> I got a call from the surgeon. He told me that when Eva was mildly sedated she wasn't reacting to any knee manipulation but really did when he applied pressure around her ankle. (She'd previously yelped when he pushed her knee during consultation so CCL seemed very likely.)
> 
> ...


It seemed odd to me earlier that they had not done an MRI or CT as a diagnostic tool- although there is a very specific movement of the joint that should NOT happen if the cruciate ligament is compromised. So much for the person who was veterinary surgeon $$$ bashing. Puzzling and frustrating but a wise surgeon to check first.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Yep, I was pushing for an MRI/CT but the waiting list was so long, and they were so convinced it was a CCL injury it was recommended we go for the TPLO, as at the time everything was pointing in that direction.

But yes, very reassuring it's not always about the money. I had make a down payment of £2000 which they're refunding (minus the fee for the ankle x-rays).


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Still waiting to hear back from the vets, but in the meantime I'm telling Eva that bald is beautiful!


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## FurdogDad (Mar 30, 2021)

She's a sweet and pretty girl if you ask me.....that fur will grow back.


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Still waiting to hear back from the vets, but in the meantime I'm telling Eva that bald is beautiful!


Hopefully you will have an answer soon! It’s great that the vet was honest and didn’t go through a surgery that wasn’t needed.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Thank you!

The vet suggested retrying Onsior (an non steroidal anti-inflammatory) which seemed to give her diarrhea before and so we stopped. This time she's been okay on it (we now suspect the diarrhea might have been a reaction to the anaesthetic and general stress). Even better is that the limp after rest is definitely improving, sometimes not there at all. We're only doing 2 X 20 min lead walks a day and always on lead in the garden (until she's inspected it and knows there are no squirrels anywhere!) and we daren't do anything more than that until we go to the physio specialist on 6th June.

We've also had to deal with a hot spot where the catheter was, so she's also been in a "cone of shame" for 5 days. Poor thing!

But she's still happy, calm and the most sweet loving dog you could possibly imagine. We've definitely bonded even more over this...so there's one good thing! (My wife might think otherwise!)


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

Neili said:


> Thank you!
> 
> The vet suggested retrying Onsior (an non steroidal anti-inflammatory) which seemed to give her diarrhea before and so we stopped. This time she's been okay on it (we now suspect the diarrhea might have been a reaction to the anaesthetic and general stress). Even better is that the limp after rest is definitely improving, sometimes not there at all. We're only doing 2 X 20 min lead walks a day and always on lead in the garden (until she's inspected it and knows there are no squirrels anywhere!) and we daren't do anything more than that until we go to the physio specialist on 6th June.
> 
> ...


Did you get the MRI results?


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

No, we have an appointment with a specialist orthopaedic centre/hospital on 6th June. I think they'll do one if they think necessary.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Eva had the TPLO operation yesterday and came home today.








Long story but the animal hospital found some instability, which the vet couldn't confirm. They'd have operated last week but Eva developed diarrhoea, probably from stress of it all.
During the op they confirmed she had a partially torn cruciate ligament. No other knee issues were found, which is great news.

So she's home now, drowsy and looking rather sorry for herself, but able to put some weight on her leg. She slept most of today...just hoping she'll do the same tonight! 😬


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

Neili said:


> Eva had the TPLO operation yesterday and came home today.
> 
> View attachment 893512
> Long story but the animal hospital found some instability, which the vet couldn't confirm. They'd have operated last week but Eva developed diarrhoea, probably from stress of it all.
> ...


The recovery was the most challenging aspect of our James’ TPLO journey. Not that he had any complications- it was him trying to do too much too soon- we were warned by the surgeon NOT to give in but to follow the post op program to the letter- and this included very restricted movement for four weeks. Use of the sling (if he liked it or not). NO STAIRS. Physio every day. We also opted for hydro therapy and laser therapy. You would never know he’s had surgery- and while he does have arthritis- it actually isn’t in his knee- and he’s almost 13- so expected. Very best wishes on your baby’s recovery.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Thank you!
The hospital was very good, I have a bunch of instructions on what to do and I'll be ultra cautious, even though the surgeon said 3 X 5min walks a day around the garden, and a few garden steps is fine. She said the exercise will actually help. Eva will be staying in this pen for the next few weeks at least and after that she'll always be supervised.

I'm lucky, she usually very calm and lazy. Sometimes when the doorbell goes we're lucky if we get a raise of an eyebrow!

I don't have anything on doing physio though, so I'll some research there, unless you have anything you can share...?

And so reassuring to hear about James!

Thanks again!


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

Neili said:


> Thank you!
> The hospital was very good, I have a bunch of instructions on what to do and I'll be ultra cautious, even though the surgeon said 3 X 5min walks a day around the garden, and a few garden steps is fine. She said the exercise will actually help. Eva will be staying in this pen for the next few weeks at least and after that she'll always be supervised.
> 
> I'm lucky, she usually very calm and lazy. Sometimes when the doorbell goes we're lucky if we get a raise of an eyebrow!
> ...


You should probably check with your surgeon- we were under very strict instructions to do a specific flexion exercise every day after the second day post op. I would hesitate to try and explain it as it is something your vet should probably show you- but it was a very specific flexion of the knee held and then repeat. best wishes.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Thank you! @sevans I called the hospital, they said they'd email across a lot of instructions and videos all about physio over the next few days. They did...but it all went to Spam! So, I've been cooling her knee with gel packs and doing very gentle passive flexion, just as you describe.

Eva's doing well. Perhaps too well for her own good. When I take her to the garden she's using her leg, pulling on the lead and would rather wonder around a sniff everything than do any boring toilet stuff. I know she's only meant to be in the garden for 5 mins 3 or 4 times a day. But she'll just stand there and take in the sight and smells....that's 5 mins right there! If I pull on the lead to go back to house, she plants herself on the ground or lies down in protest. I've had to pick her up and carry her to get her back in the house!

I'm think I should video all this, we may be a YouTube hit!

She wanted to go to the garden twice in the night. We're on tenterhooks because of her diarrhoea issues, so we gave in and took her out. No diarrhoea yet, in fact no nothing, but I don't want to tempt fate. 

I'm sleeping on a camp bed next to the pen too. If I move a way she starts to whine and bark. She doesn't usually have separation issues, but she's not usually in a pen!

These are hard times, no kidding! It reminds me of having a baby. She's sleeping now, so time for a cold beer and catch-up on email and this forum! (I'm hoping this might be useful to someone someday, and it's good to offload!)


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

Neili said:


> Thank you! @sevans I called the hospital, they said they'd email across a lot of instructions and videos all about physio over the next few days. They did...but it all went to Spam! So, I've been cooling her knee with gel packs and doing very gentle passive flexion, just as you describe.
> 
> Eva's doing well. Perhaps too well for her own good. When I take her to the garden she's using her leg, pulling on the lead and would rather wonder around a sniff everything than do any boring toilet stuff. I know she's only meant to be in the garden for 5 mins 3 or 4 times a day. But she'll just stand there and take in the sight and smells....that's 5 mins right there! If I pull on the lead to go back to house, she plants herself on the ground or lies down in protest. I've had to pick her up and carry her to get her back in the house!
> 
> ...


I slept beside James on the couch for several weeks as well- shows you’re a great puppy parent. It is normal for them not to have a bowel movement for a couple of days post general anesthetic but if it goes more than two days- she may need a laxative or an enema. Again, ask your vet. What you describe is exactly what we went through with James- too active for his own good and it’s totally on you to stick to your guns because they can easily undo all that work in no time. I would definitley get your vert to re-send the physio info as what and how you do it, how long you hold it, how many reps is quite specific. A year from now- this will all be a foggy memory.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Thanks, I don't feel so crazy now. My wife and kids think I'm too "attached"! After a week of diarrhoea, I'm not going to rush for the laxatives...but yes, I won't let it go too long!
Sorry I didn't make it clear, I found the instructions and great videos they produced and have now started following their recommendations, which sound very similar to what you did. Can't wait until those foggy memories!


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

Neili said:


> Thanks, I don't feel so crazy now. My wife and kids think I'm too "attached"! After a week of diarrhoea, I'm not going to rush for the laxatives...but yes, I won't let it go too long!
> Sorry I didn't make it clear, I found the instructions and great videos they produced and have now started following their recommendations, which sound very similar to what you did. Can't wait until those foggy memories!


You can never love your pets too much- they love you back unconditionally.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Totally agree, ice pack time now!


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Day 3 and Eva's ankle seems to have a bag of water inside it! I know it's normal but it's still quite weird...it just hangs around in there!

We got up twice in the night, I think just because she's sleeping in a different place. Pleased to report bowels are absolutely perfect. Even though it was 5am I did a little happy dance on the lawn..pretty sure no one could see me!

Perhaps this is a GR thing but Eva, once she got through the nightmare puppy stage, has always been quite calm and laid back. So, TPLO recovery so far hasn't been the total nightmare I was expecting. I'm lucky to work from home, and so I can sit in her pen, soothe her and talk to her, while I'm on my laptop doing what needs to be done work wise. Zoom calls are a little harder, but if I'm in the same room then Eva's happy to listen in or sleep. I know what my choice would be!

I didn't really notice any improvement in her walking today, I should start videoing our garden walks so I can track it better.


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

Neili said:


> Day 3 and Eva's ankle seems to have a bag of water inside it! I know it's normal but it's still quite weird...it just hangs around in there!
> 
> We got up twice in the night, I think just because she's sleeping in a different place. Pleased to report bowels are absolutely perfect. Even though it was 5am I did a little happy dance on the lawn..pretty sure no one could see me!
> 
> ...


I am not sure what your surgon suggested- but other than the physio and out for bathroom breaks- we were told no walking for the first week without the sling and very limited. The fluid sounds like oedema- but “a bag of water” not sure that is normal. Should not be a problem to snap some picts and send them off to your vet if for no otehr reason than peace of mind.


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

How is Eva doing? I’m sorry I haven’t been on here in awhile! I’ve thought of her from time to time! My golden one year post op since his TTA and I’m 90 % sure he tore the other leg today . They say 40 - 60 % tear the second within a year so here we are…


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Goldenretrievermama0217 said:


> How is Eva doing? I’m sorry I haven’t been on here in awhile! I’ve thought of her from time to time! My golden one year post op since his TTA and I’m 90 % sure he tore the other leg today . They say 40 - 60 % tear the second within a year so here we are…


Oh no, I'm so sorry to hear that. I've read the same statistics (or even higher) and expecting the same for Eva next year...ideally in a new insurance year and we're reaching the limit in this one. I hope Gower's just got a stain... I suspect we're both qualified enough to figure that out quite quickly now. Keeping fingers crossed for you two.

Eva's doing well, thank you. Walking around the garden (5 min on lead) is almost like normal, not limping much. We were doing the same before the operation, so very used to it. She does hop and struggle a bit getting off her mat and negotiating her way around the pen. Maybe it's because her leg has gone to sleep a little, maybe it's because she's got a cone on and can't really see her way around. I'm a little worried because her leg was stiff getting up from rest before, so I was expecting that to be immediately fixed! I may be expecting too much, this is day 8! 

We're seeing the vet tomorrow to check the stitches. Everything looks fine there. I'm doing (well, Eva's doing!) passive "stretches" 4 times a day followed by hot and cold packs. Alternating every 2 mins for 10 mins or so.

She's adjusted to her boring pen days so well, as long as we're in the same room. But she doesn't like being left alone. Before TPLO she'd sleep at the bottom of the stairs and she was always one to follow me around the house. So now she barks when she's alone. I've managed to get as far as leaving the next room door open and if she can hear me then she's generally ok, but I can't get any further. She's always been fine when we're out of the house for hours, as long as she can be by the front door she'll sleep until we get back. I think the pen, at the back of the house in the kitchen, isn't ideal. So, I'm looking forward to having her back in the hallway. We can't do that now because if someone comes to the door, rings the bell or drops letters through the letterbox, then it can startle her. We've put signs up outside and taped up the bell, but it's still a risk! So we haven't left her alone in the house yet. Not sure when we'll dare do that! I'm sleeping on a camp bed in the kitchen, unless I've got to be in the office the next morning, in which case my wife will. It's daylight at 4am now and the curtains are thin. It doesn't seem to bother Eva luckily. She'll still sleep until we make a move.

I've started looking at physiotherapy and hydrotherapy. I've have a chat with the vet too, see which places she recommends.

This is such an undertaking, but at least we knew what to expect and were fully prepared...thanks to you and others here! 

Sending best wishes to you and Gower...keep us posted


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Oh no, I'm so sorry to hear that. I've read the same statistics (or even higher) and expecting the same for Eva next year...ideally in a new insurance year and we're reaching the limit in this one. I hope Gower's just got a stain... I suspect we're both qualified enough to figure that out quite quickly now. Keeping fingers crossed for you two.
> 
> Eva's doing well, thank you. Walking around the garden (5 min on lead) is almost like normal, not limping much. We were doing the same before the operation, so very used to it. She does hop and struggle a bit getting off her mat and negotiating her way around the pen. Maybe it's because her leg has gone to sleep a little, maybe it's because she's got a cone on and can't really see her way around. I'm a little worried because her leg was stiff getting up from rest before, so I was expecting that to be immediately fixed! I may be expecting too much, this is day 8!
> 
> ...


I am glad she is doing well the first 2 weeks were the hardest after that it was keeping gower calm and not to get overly excited. Or allowing him to walk to far, we have a tiny garden but it is artificial turf and no where he’d go to the bathroom so we’d have to open the gate to the open grass area and take him out on a lead there and sometimes he’d think he could walk further.

I know the statistics are very high we thought he was doing really well, but then all of a sudden last night it’s hard to say for 100 % certainly it’s the non surgery leg because due to the surgery he is walking even stranger as he still has pain with both.

I am going to call to make some appointments today, but that’s difficult because we are now back to square one with no vet as I think I mentioned before we switched to his rehab vet who now left the facility she was at and only does rehab now and no general practice. I did take him to a new vet for his annual check up - it’s 5 minutes from the house and had good reviews but it seems it might be too new and overcharging for services. I’ve thought about making a rehab recheck with the rehab vet to get some guidance because she’s wonderful but the place she’s at is over an hour away and I don’t even know what sort of appointments they do since it’s a rehab facility not a vet clinic.

The vet who did the surgery last time was not at a specialist board certified vet as that would be 3 months out to take him there.. we aren’t unhappy with the job he did on the surgery but are unsure about how he handled the follow up I think I mentioned he was trying to get us to do a second surgery 4 weeks post op due to how the x-ray looked luckily we had our rehab / new vet at the time give us guidance on that and got us X-rays looked at by a radiologist at the board certified vet and made us an appointment and everything was okay. So now we run into the question do we go back to that vet or look into a specialist.

I didn’t get gower insurance until after his surgery so if it’s a cruciate tear even on the other knee it won’t be covered since it is a pre existing condition I wish I would of gotten him insurance at a younger age but at this point that doesn’t matter.

I hope Eva won’t tear the other knee but at least if she does, hopefully it’s within a new year for your insurance.

good luck with her appointment!

how did her leg look after the surgery? Gower when he had his had purple bruising terribly on the inside where the incision was, and even on the other side.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Yes, I remember reading the trouble you had previously. Having done both, I found going to the specialist centre was a much better experience. Although our vets were good, there was always an element of doubt in their voices (and even on the operating table). When we went to the hospital, the specialist really understood the issue, really saw the limp and the fact Eva wasn't putting full weight on her leg and when anaesthetised was able to confirm movement in Eva's knee, something the vet wasn't able to do. In their write up to the vet they said, "a medial anthrotomy revealed a partial rupture of the cranial cruciate ligament. The menisci and caudal cruciate ligament were intact". Which is good! I guess, just like going to a general doctor, vets aren't experts in this field unless it's really obvious...and like with our doctor I've had better success using Google, but that's another story!

Even though it took 3 months for the referral, the hospital said because I noticed it so early no other harm was done in waiting, but noticing it so early made it difficult for a general vet to diagnose. I'm glad I pushed for this referral and didn't cancel it even though I was going to get the operation done by the vet.

I wish you and Gower the best of luck....it's such a nightmare working through all this. It's so emotionally draining....

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content










Here's Eva's scar at 5 days. It's looking about the same now, just with more hair! There wasn't really any bruising. I've noticed her leg muscles are much smaller and floppier than the other side now, and she struggles turning round in her pen or standing on her mat, which is only an inch thick. I'm hoping that's going to slowly improve as we build up to 10 minute walks next week....can't wait!!

I wondered about the pre-existing conditions, if it's another leg. My insurance will cover that next year, but no doubt they'll increase the premium to something ridiculous. I was wondering if I could argue it was an injury rather than a disease. Not sure how I'd manage to provide that though!

Anyway, good luck with Gower, keeping my fingers crossed from this side of the pond! Let us know how you get on.


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Yes, I remember reading the trouble you had previously. Having done both, I found going to the specialist centre was a much better experience. Although our vets were good, there was always an element of doubt in their voices (and even on the operating table). When we went to the hospital, the specialist really understood the issue, really saw the limp and the fact Eva wasn't putting full weight on her leg and when anaesthetised was able to confirm movement in Eva's knee, something the vet wasn't able to do. In their write up to the vet they said, "a medial anthrotomy revealed a partial rupture of the cranial cruciate ligament. The menisci and caudal cruciate ligament were intact". Which is good! I guess, just like going to a general doctor, vets aren't experts in this field unless it's really obvious...and like with our doctor I've had better success using Google, but that's another story!
> 
> Even though it took 3 months for the referral, the hospital said because I noticed it so early no other harm was done in waiting, but noticing it so early made it difficult for a general vet to diagnose. I'm glad I pushed for this referral and didn't cancel it even though I was going to get the operation done by the vet.
> 
> ...


We just got home from the vet who did the previous surgery - he is scheduled for a TTA on Tuesday on his right knee, it was the left previously. This is something my husband and I discussed a lot before if we would allow the original doctor to do the surgery or we’d take him to a specialist. We feel confident with him doing the surgery, and we will look at driving the hour plus to where his rehab vet moved to so he can also see her. It’s not ideal part of me wants to take him to the specialist but it is clear he is in pain and the limp is bad. I do like this vet, so I’m going to go with my gut and let him do the surgery.

Wow Eva leg looks great compared to how gowers was it could be that hers was a different surgery… also Gower 2 days post op got out of his cone and got his stitches out luckily it stayed shut but he had to get staples put in that created more bruising.

Did Eva stay overnight?


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

Neili said:


> Oh no, I'm so sorry to hear that. I've read the same statistics (or even higher) and expecting the same for Eva next year...ideally in a new insurance year and we're reaching the limit in this one. I hope Gower's just got a stain... I suspect we're both qualified enough to figure that out quite quickly now. Keeping fingers crossed for you two.
> 
> Eva's doing well, thank you. Walking around the garden (5 min on lead) is almost like normal, not limping much. We were doing the same before the operation, so very used to it. She does hop and struggle a bit getting off her mat and negotiating her way around the pen. Maybe it's because her leg has gone to sleep a little, maybe it's because she's got a cone on and can't really see her way around. I'm a little worried because her leg was stiff getting up from rest before, so I was expecting that to be immediately fixed! I may be expecting too much, this is day 8!
> 
> ...


Definitely the recovery is the long road. I too was advised that there was a high probability that the other ACL would tear though (touch wood) we have avoided that so far -four years in now. I know that we changed course in the kind of exercise we do with James- longer WALKS- zero crazy running-no fetch that involved running, jumping or roll backs- more like lawn bowling and having him wait in a stay then go after it. Swimming more, jumping- nope. No jumping onto beds or into cars. You might ask about laser therapy also- I was skeptical but it was highly recommended by our surgeon along with hydro and physio. Gotta love them


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Goldenretrievermama0217 said:


> We just got home from the vet who did the previous surgery - he is scheduled for a TTA on Tuesday on his right knee, it was the left previously. This is something my husband and I discussed a lot before if we would allow the original doctor to do the surgery or we’d take him to a specialist. We feel confident with him doing the surgery, and we will look at driving the hour plus to where his rehab vet moved to so he can also see her. It’s not ideal part of me wants to take him to the specialist but it is clear he is in pain and the limp is bad. I do like this vet, so I’m going to go with my gut and let him do the surgery.
> 
> Wow Eva leg looks great compared to how gowers was it could be that hers was a different surgery… also Gower 2 days post op got out of his cone and got his stitches out luckily it stayed shut but he had to get staples put in that created more bruising.
> 
> Did Eva stay overnight?


So sorry to hear you're going through this all over again. Hopefully the experience of the first time will help.
I think going with whoever you've got confidence in is the way to go! As you'll remember I was going with the local vet surgeon who's done over 500 TPLOs but then he cancelled on the operating table as he wasn't 100% the problem was with her knee. I was happy going with the hospital too, but wanted to get her seen to sooner. Tuesday is great, the waiting here in UK is much longer for any op unless it's an emergency. 

Eva was in for one night. After her x-ray at the hospital (which was a couple of weeks before) she got really bad diarrhoea. We wondered if it was stress, a virus, wrong food. We switched to chicken and rice but it continued until we switched to a hypoallergenic kibble. This time, after the operation, she'd been absolutely fine. We'll keep on this kibble until we're out of the woods. We were given a pack of tranquillisers for Eva, but haven't had to use a single one. 

Yes, the scar is looking good and now the stitches are beginning to dissolve/fade. We went to the vet yesterday for a check-up and all's well there. 

I just wish she'd put more weight on her leg when standing. It just hangs there, like it did before the op. Despite the surgeon saying it was a partially torn ligament, part of me is wondering if it wasn't her knee at all.... but then I'm probably just being paranoid! We're going to their physiotherapy team on 12th July for a consultation and maybe start booking in sessions including hydrotherapy. Her muscles on her injured leg are much softer and smaller than the other, which is probably why she's favouring the others (and the fact she's had major operation on it!).


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

sevans said:


> Definitely the recovery is the long road. I too was advised that there was a high probability that the other ACL would tear though (touch wood) we have avoided that so far -four years in now. I know that we changed course in the kind of exercise we do with James- longer WALKS- zero crazy running-no fetch that involved running, jumping or roll backs- more like lawn bowling and having him wait in a stay then go after it. Swimming more, jumping- nope. No jumping onto beds or into cars. You might ask about laser therapy also- I was skeptical but it was highly recommended by our surgeon along with hydro and physio. Gotta love them


Yikes, I was hoping we'd get back to normal in 4 to 6 months and I can let her go free! Of course I'd worry (I'm a worrier) but I also want to let her go back to all the things she/we enjoyed before. And, if the other leg goes then we'd have to deal with it at the time. Such a dilemma I totally understand where you're coming from, and may easily go that route too.
I'll ask about laser. My dad bought a laser device for his knee and say's it's really made a difference...hmm, maybe we can borrow that....?!


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> So sorry to hear you're going through this all over again. Hopefully the experience of the first time will help.
> I think going with whoever you've got confidence in is the way to go! As you'll remember I was going with the local vet surgeon who's done over 500 TPLOs but then he cancelled on the operating table as he wasn't 100% the problem was with her knee. I was happy going with the hospital too, but wanted to get her seen to sooner. Tuesday is great, the waiting here in UK is much longer for any op unless it's an emergency.
> 
> Eva was in for one night. After her x-ray at the hospital (which was a couple of weeks before) she got really bad diarrhoea. We wondered if it was stress, a virus, wrong food. We switched to chicken and rice but it continued until we switched to a hypoallergenic kibble. This time, after the operation, she'd been absolutely fine. We'll keep on this kibble until we're out of the woods. We were given a pack of tranquillisers for Eva, but haven't had to use a single one.
> ...


The therapy we will be good. We called the vet who did his therapy last time and she’s at a new place which is over an hour away and they aren’t booking until early August. But I made a consultation for gower with her, because I trust her and she knows his story she worked with him once a week for 3 months for 2 hours a time, plus 2 hr visits each month after until this past March when she moved. I hate that it has to be a new patient consultant and go through all those hoops but unfortunately that is what happens that she is at a new place. Their prices also seem to be more expensive, and with it being over an hour drive, and the price of gas I am not sure we will be able to do weekly appointments. We will see what they say, they wouldn’t give me much information over the phone which I don’t like. The place she used to be at went over all the details of their packages prior to us even booking the first appointment. But regardless for the rest of his life we will continue to take him to see this vet for his mobility issues, so we have to start at some point. We were already going to go in September to see her prior to this happening again.

The vet who is doing the surgery said they like them to stay over night after surgery but it’s not required as they aren’t a 24 hour facility. Last time he did stay, as I didn’t know it was optional and I drove and sat in the parking lot I was so sad. I think this time, we will bring him home day of. I don’t want him having to be there all alone, in pain. He already appears to be in more pain then the last time. I worry about his left leg which is the surgery leg from last year, it seems fine and our rehab vet said he will be much stronger and be able to recovery well for the next surgery we also have him down 20lbs from his last surgery he just seems so unsure of what leg to bare the weight on right now.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

It's sooo expensive! Our 1 hour consultation is £146 ($176) and then they'll tell us how many sessions she'll need. I think the insurance will cover it.
As you know, Eva stayed the night. The nurses said they gave her something to help her sleep as they had some "noisy guests" and Eva was getting a bit agitated. So, if Gower stays in for the night, maybe they can administer stronger drugs than you'd get at home, which might be another route? But absolutely I know what you mean. Eva's such a gentle thoughtful girl, if there were reactive, barky type dogs nearby, should she wouldn't be happy at all! She came home fine though, no stress effects and so very chilled!

The centre is an hour away from me too. Once a week is going to be a pain. I'm hoping they can kick off the treatment when it's all about the bone healing and the TPLO, then further down the road when that's all fine but we need to build up muscle then perhaps I can take Eva somewhere nearer and more "mainstream"...and probably cheaper.

Good luck to you and Gower for Tuesday.


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> It's sooo expensive! Our 1 hour consultation is £146 ($176) and then they'll tell us how many sessions she'll need. I think the insurance will cover it.
> As you know, Eva stayed the night. The nurses said they gave her something to help her sleep as they had some "noisy guests" and Eva was getting a bit agitated. So, if Gower stays in for the night, maybe they can administer stronger drugs than you'd get at home, which might be another route? But absolutely I know what you mean. Eva's such a gentle thoughtful girl, if there were reactive, barky type dogs nearby, should she wouldn't be happy at all! She came home fine though, no stress effects and so very chilled!
> 
> The centre is an hour away from me too. Once a week is going to be a pain. I'm hoping they can kick off the treatment when it's all about the bone healing and the TPLO, then further down the road when that's all fine but we need to build up muscle then perhaps I can take Eva somewhere nearer and more "mainstream"...and probably cheaper.
> ...


The place we did the rehab last year was a package for $1,450 US. So $120 a session we signed up for the 12 week package. Our 2 hour consultation for the other place is $200, so we shall see what they say.

The thing with gower staying over night is there won’t be able one there overnight , they aren’t a 24 hour facility, he would be alone. So I think we might pick him up that day.

When is the appointment for the consultation for rehab for Eva?


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Oh I see. Totally alone! No, I wouldn't do that either. 😬 

Eva's appointment is on 12 July. We're allowed to do very gently 10 min walks, 3 times a day from this Tuesday. Her walking seems to be fine, barely a limp, but when standing/sniffing she's not really putting any weight on her injured leg. That's the bit that's worrying me.


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## sevans (Jul 18, 2021)

Neili said:


> Oh I see. Totally alone! No, I wouldn't do that either. 😬
> 
> Eva's appointment is on 12 July. We're allowed to do very gently 10 min walks, 3 times a day from this Tuesday. Her walking seems to be fine, barely a limp, but when standing/sniffing she's not really putting any weight on her injured leg. That's the bit that's worrying me.


It takes time- this is a pretty invasive surgery. If you know anyone who has had a hip replacement- same scale.


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Oh I see. Totally alone! No, I wouldn't do that either. 😬
> 
> Eva's appointment is on 12 July. We're allowed to do very gently 10 min walks, 3 times a day from this Tuesday. Her walking seems to be fine, barely a limp, but when standing/sniffing she's not really putting any weight on her injured leg. That's the bit that's worrying me.


We picked Gower up this after his surgery they said all went well, we will go back in a few weeks to have the stitches removed. He is not touching his foot to the ground yet. He is very out of it right now from the surgery, and does appear to be in pain. He did a great job though, and we are happy to have him home.


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Goldenretrievermama0217 said:


> We picked Gower up this after his surgery they said all went well, we will go back in a few weeks to have the stitches removed. He is not touching his foot to the ground yet. He is very out of it right now from the surgery, and does appear to be in pain. He did a great job though, and we are happy to have him home.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Really pleased it went well! He's such a handsome boy. Eva sends her love and best wishes! It wasn't until the next morning at home, so 36 hours or so after the op, until Eva was really back to her old self.
Hopefully you meant Gower doesn't appear to be in pain? Eva never really did either. We've finished all the pain killers now. But she still won't put much weight on her leg when standing. I'm following all the physio steps and gently rocking her 15 times when she's standing to shift her weight to the left leg.
Hope you have a good night.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Hi @Goldenretrievermama0217 How are you and Gower doing?


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Hi @Goldenretrievermama0217 How are you and Gower doing?


We are doing good, gower has just been sleeping, getting more alert, I’m not even sure he knew who were yesterday. My husband and I both slept on air mattresses downstairs right next to him. We tried to take him pee last night but wouldn’t attempt to get up, he was a bit more alert at 2:30 in the morning so we took him out pee around then. And went back to bed, I was not sleeping in fear he was going to lick his stitches out like he did 2 days after his surgery last time when he got out of his donut. So I put on his soft cone we found that worked great for him, and I was able to sleep finally. We’ve done ice 3 times today, and took him out pee twice both where my husband had to pick him up and place him on his feet, then he walked we have a harness for him that has a handle luckily because once we get out in the grass he will lay down and we can use that to pick him up. He isn’t bearing any weight on the leg, his last surgery we picked him up the next morning and he already was toe tapping his leg, but right now he is being a 3 legged dog which worries me but 1 day at a time right now. His leg, and incision are very red. He is back to eating, and drinking. A little hesitant but getting there. I worry about being able to take him out when my husband goes to work tomorrow but he will be okay. 

How is Eva doing?


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Awww bless! I love your pictures, I should share more of Eva, I'll do better next time!

I know you've been through it all before so I'm wary of giving advice in something you know more about than I do. But what you describe is very similar to what we went though in the first night! Except I was downstairs and my wife was upstairs!!

Eva's scar was covered with a bandage so I didn't see it for the first 2 days after the op (day one was in hospital). But the swelling got quite big and then her ankle filled with liquid, like a deflated water balloon! That only lasted 24 hours, about day 3 or 4.
We haven't had a problem getting Eva into the garden but when she's there she has now got quite stroppy and will refuse to come back in. I can pick her up if necessary but my wife definitely can't. But she'll can get her back in by saying the magic word "snack"! 
She's got better now she knows the routine and the time limits.
She's still avoiding putting much weight on her leg when standing, exactly the issue before the op. I am worried about that but hopefully will be assured when we go back to the hospital for physio consultation on Tuesday. Her muscles in that leg are so soft and floppy so her favouring the other other one does make sense. But I was hoping to see some progress day by day. But despite all the exercises, massages and cold/treatment there's no improvement. 
The harness is a good idea, I might give that a go to encourage her to stand when I'm nudging/rocking her to put weight some on her leg...sometimes she just sits down as she thinks the pressure back there means sit!

Her walking is good though and was before the op, after the first few steps 

I read it can be 3 or 4 days before toe touching, so hoping Gower will get there soon. Nothing I've read says there's anything to worry about now. Hopefully tomorrow or day after he'll start putting it down.

Wishing you all well! This is soooo tough....!


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Awww bless! I love your pictures, I should share more of Eva, I'll do better next time!
> 
> I know you've been through it all before so I'm wary of giving advice in something you know more about than I do. But what you describe is very similar to what we went though in the first night! Except I was downstairs and my wife was upstairs!!
> 
> ...


I am sure in time she’ll start putting more weight on it. Gower the last time was very swollen and bruised all over his leg, and was very red. Right now it actually looks good compared to last time, I’m taking pictures each day to monitor it. I’ve done ice like 5 times today, I’ve read anywhere between 3-6, and he likes the ice I put a blanket on him and he goes to sleep for 20 minutes. I’m sure in 3 days he’ll be over it. Every hour today he seems more alert a bit ago we found him standing up on 3 legs just looking around.

He is getting better at going out each time, his favorite treat is these little freezed dried fish so those have gotten him excited today.The little garden area we have is artificial turf as where we live doesn’t allow real grass, so we have to open the gate to walk him in the field behind our house.

I’m sure when you take Eva for her next appointment they’ll be able to see why she isn’t putting a lot of weight on the leg and will work with her. I worry about Gower as his other leg isn’t 100 % from his last surgery, and he has arthritis in his hips. One thing our rehab vet told us last time was to make sure to also massage the shoulder areas as they are putting so much weight on their front legs right now.

And you can share all the advice you have from what you’ve learned with Eva. I’m already seeing so many differences from our last one, and how Gower is now.

Have a good night, and thank you for checking in on Gower.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Goldenretrievermama0217 said:


> I am sure in time she’ll start putting more weight on it. Gower the last time was very swollen and bruised all over his leg, and was very red. Right now it actually looks good compared to last time, I’m taking pictures each day to monitor it. I’ve done ice like 5 times today, I’ve read anywhere between 3-6, and he likes the ice I put a blanket on him and he goes to sleep for 20 minutes. I’m sure in 3 days he’ll be over it. Every hour today he seems more alert a bit ago we found him standing up on 3 legs just looking around.
> 
> He is getting better at going out each time, his favorite treat is these little freezed dried fish so those have gotten him excited today.The little garden area we have is artificial turf as where we live doesn’t allow real grass, so we have to open the gate to walk him in the field behind our house.
> 
> ...


Hi, how're all doing? Hope there's a little progress for you.
Eva loves the little dried fish too, called Sprats over here. I was using them to tempt Eva to do some exercises, (walking over planks in the garden) but she was getting too excited about them, so I've gone for lower value treats!

Thanks for the tip about shoulder massage, I'll do that tonight as well. Though our routine is already take 25 mins 3 times a day....!

Eva jumped up at me today..I'm usually so careful to keep her lead tight and pulled towards the ground if there a chance she'll get excited, but I missed it and up she went. I tried not to freak out too much, didn't want her to react badly and make things worse. So I put her down gently and I don't think any harm was done. We went for our walk just now and all was fine.

No improvement on weight bearing though, but if it's to do with her muscles then that's going to take a few months at least I suppose. Plus that should improve as we increase the exercise . Trying to stay positive!!

Best wishes to you and Gower, here's some pics of Eva...


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Hi, how're all doing? Hope there's a little progress for you.
> Eva loves the little dried fish too, called Sprats over here. I was using them to tempt Eva to do some exercises, (walking over planks in the garden) but she was getting too excited about them, so I've gone for lower value treats!
> 
> Thanks for the tip about shoulder massage, I'll do that tonight as well. Though our routine is already take 25 mins 3 times a day....!
> ...


Love the pictures of Eva! Her incision site looks good, did she have her stitches out?

Gower is doing well I think getting a bit frustrated being in the pen, I think if we allowed it he’d sneak out and go get in the couch which would be a big no no. His leg has a lot of purple / reddish bruising but he had that last time, and our vet warned us about that. He know has the swollen ankle, I’m hoping it goes down in a few days. How long did Eva have the swelling around her ankle for?

When gower gets up to go outside he is standing on 3 legs still but once we start to go out he will put the foot down, I feel like his last surgery he was already always putting his foot down but we are only at day 3 post op. He has a bad habit of going outside and rolling in the grass I try to stop him but it’s too quick at times luckily I can pull him up with the harness.

I haven’t started too much flexing of the knee yet, our instructions say after a week, and no moist heat until all the swelling is down so just ice right now. I ice it 4-6 times a day, he enjoys the ice and takes a nap. I will change up our routine in a few days to add more flexing of his leg, and adding moist heat to the our routine. Our instructions say start 1 block walks next week, we shall see where we at. I don’t want to rush him. 


This is the picture of the outside of his leg, the inside looks similar with red bruising but the incision itself looks fine. It looks scarier then it is, last year the leg looked much worse.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Great to hear that Gower's putting his foot down now!

Ha...I know exactly what you mean about rolling on the grass! Eva does that all the time. I haven't stopped her as she waves her legs in the air and doesn't seem to be straining her poorly one...and she's so happy to have a bit of freedom, despite her being on the lead!

Her ankle swelling..well more like a bag of water in there, just lasted for a day. I massage her leg 3 times a day, apply warm packs (not cold now) and do gentle passive stretches. When she's standing still and/or sniffing something on our short walks I nudge her weight over to her poorly leg 15 times. I can see her muscle tense as I do it. It might be working. Now without me nudging her I can see that her toes have spread more, so more weight might be getting there. Tuesday is our physio consulting day. It's a 45 min drive away, I expect I'll be doing it once a week for a few months.

It's getting hot here now (yes, in England!) high 80's, so I may bring back the ice packs...might use one myself!

Best wishes


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Great to hear that Gower's putting his foot down now!
> 
> Ha...I know exactly what you mean about rolling on the grass! Eva does that all the time. I haven't stopped her as she waves her legs in the air and doesn't seem to be straining her poorly one...and she's so happy to have a bit of freedom, despite her being on the lead!
> 
> ...


I am in Florida - so I am not minding the limited walks right now and outdoor time it’s miserable some days when I attempt to walk Gower in the high 90s.

Gower’s swelling is down. I’ve started heat today, with some passive range of motion, then ice. Seems to be doing well, we’ve expended the pen a bit during the day time, and he is now standing to eat his food rather then laying down. Making progress we go next Monday to get stitches out.

how did the physio consult go?


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Yep, we're to hit mid 90s this weekend and I'm not minding the short walks either! We do them at 7am, then 6pm and 9pm to avoid the heat.

The physio went well, thank you. Her walking is exactly where it should be right now. But her favouring her other leg when standing etc is something that'll need work. So, we called the surgeon for "permission" to do a trial go at hydrotherapy right away, which we got. So, Eva got to paddle (chest deep) for 15 mins on a treadmill! She wasn't happy at first but once we found a tennis ball to float ahead of her she started to relax.

We also got more exercises to do like walking over poles and repetitions of sitting/standing. Nothing too strenuous for now but her leg muscle is about an inch smaller that the other side so it's going to take some time. We start the weekly hydrotherapy in August, just because of availability.

Sounds like Gower's doing well, really pleased to hear that! We let Eva out of the pen during the day too, but she's always on a lead, either tied to me or anywhere convenient. Our kitchen floor is too slippy to let her free there, though I have put rugs down they don't cover everywhere. And in the lounge she'd go straight up on the sofa without a moments thought!

We can stop the passive movements now. The consultant tested how her leg was extending and was very happy. All I need to do now is check it every few days to make sure there's no decline
So, next milestone is the X-rays in 3 or 4 weeks...I need to book that in.

Best wishes!


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Yep, we're to hit mid 90s this weekend and I'm not minding the short walks either! We do them at 7am, then 6pm and 9pm to avoid the heat.
> 
> The physio went well, thank you. Her walking is exactly where it should be right now. But her favouring her other leg when standing etc is something that'll need work. So, we called the surgeon for "permission" to do a trial go at hydrotherapy right away, which we got. So, Eva got to paddle (chest deep) for 15 mins on a treadmill! She wasn't happy at first but once we found a tennis ball to float ahead of her she started to relax.
> 
> ...


That is great, I am glad it went well. How many weeks will you go for? 

We might try taking him out for a 5-10 minute walk before bed tonight on the sidewalk - right now is outdoor time is just to go potty but it is all on grass and I’d like to see him start walking on a more stable ground at least once a day. I don’t want to over do it though, so we shall see how he is feeling.

if I let him out he’s jump on the couch or go up the stairs first chance he gets. Even at night when he is locked in his pen I put things on the couch to block it so if by some chance he got out he can’t get up the stairs or couch. We have tile floor but I’ve put rugs everywhere he is right now so no chance of slipping. I wish we could have the flooring downstairs redone for his sake I get so paranoid as he gets older. I guess buying rugs for the whole house would be cheaper.

He is starting to get very excited and back to his normal self so I am not ready to expand the pen much as we are only one week since surgery.

We have a cruise booked for October and Gower will stay at my mom’s and my sister lives there and has two young crazy Golden’s and tile floor. So I want him at a good place by then, and also need to express the fact he needs to be sectioned off 90 % of the time. I was hesitant to still go on the trip, but I know they know the importance of keeping him safe. Just will be more difficult for them.


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Goldenretrievermama0217 said:


> That is great, I am glad it went well. How many weeks will you go for?
> 
> We might try taking him out for a 5-10 minute walk before bed tonight on the sidewalk - right now is outdoor time is just to go potty but it is all on grass and I’d like to see him start walking on a more stable ground at least once a day. I don’t want to over do it though, so we shall see how he is feeling.
> 
> ...


Forgot to mention we bought a set of 4 poles last year as the vet suggested we keep them up in the house and have him do them daily. So in a few weeks we will brings those back out and do them with him once a day.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Hi, we've booked in 4 hydrotherapy sessions and will probably book another 4 later on and see how we're getting on.
Also, there's a more local but less specialist hydrotherapy place which we could use if things look to be heading in the right direction.
She's still not putting much weight on her leg when standing and I don't think there's been any improvement, which is quite depressing. Part of me is thinking there's something else going on, as her symptoms weren't exactly typical to start with. But we'll keep walking further (at 15 mins now), we've got the x-ray on 1st August and then the physio and hydrotherapy... surely there'll be some improvement soon...?

I'm letting Eva out of the pen during the day now, just downstairs and I've blocked off the sofas and stairs. I've put rugs on the slippy floors too. And she's always on a lead around the garden....I don't trust her that much!

How's Gower doing now? Are you using the poles? We do once a day too, just for 3 or 4 mins. She barely notices them...no problems as long as she's moving. It's just the standing... ☹


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Glad to hear Eva is doing well. Hopefully it’s nothing more serious, we are walking about 5-15 minute walks not very far distances just depends how slow he wants to go. I worry about his other leg still seems uneasy from his last surgery, but I’ve been noticing him standing on the surgery leg when lifting his leg to go to the bathroom it shakes but at least he’s using it. We haven’t started the poles, maybe next week I think I read poles should be at 3 weeks. Have you tried the exercises lifting her opposite front leg? I’ve read that will force them to put weight on the surgical leg



We go to get his stitches out tomorrow, the incision is looking good, then in another 6 weeks we will go do X-rays. Does Eva’s knee click when you did passive range of motion? Gower’s does, and it makes me nervous but his other knee also did that. I’m not sure if it’s normal or not.

Did the physio place say anything about her not putting much weight on the leg?


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Goldenretrievermama0217 said:


> Glad to hear Eva is doing well. Hopefully it’s nothing more serious, we are walking about 5-15 minute walks not very far distances just depends how slow he wants to go. I worry about his other leg still seems uneasy from his last surgery, but I’ve been noticing him standing on the surgery leg when lifting his leg to go to the bathroom it shakes but at least he’s using it. We haven’t started the poles, maybe next week I think I read poles should be at 3 weeks. Have you tried the exercises lifting her opposite front leg? I’ve read that will force them to put weight on the surgical leg
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh yes, I forgot to mention that..! I was doing PROMs with Eva and there was a loud click from her knee! It scared the life out of me but she was fine and there were no after effects. I wasn't forcing her knee at all, just guiding it, so was pretty sure it couldn't be anything serious. Hasn't done it since...

Because it's so hot here now (104f) forecasted for today, Eva's only having two walks a day so I've slightly I increased the time to between 15 and 20 mins. To be fair most of the time she's sniffing around. And when she's in a sniff heaven I'll nudge her weight 15 times and then hold for 15 seconds to her surgery leg. There's a lot less shaking of her leg when she's going to the toilet...so perhaps somethings working. And while on the subject, when she's done something she's particularly proud of and kicks dirt up in the air, she's doing it with her surgery leg too and it's with a lot more strength that she used to. Funny all things things we notice! I wasn't sure whether to stop her but she wasn't doing it in the early days and is gradually picking up strength now, but she's still being cautious, so I'm letting her. 

The physio said that she should be putting more weight on her leg but her muscles were smaller than the other side. So, we ran through the exercises we should be doing, including repeating sit to stand, nudging to her weak leg and feeding her snacks in a way she has to turn her head around to the right, which puts weight on her left. I've got 6x2 planks and bricks so have made an obstacle course in the garden too. So, a couple more weeks and then back for X-rays. Hoping to see some progress by then.


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

That all sounds like good progress! It’s a lot of work, but putting it in now will help her be even stronger. And the hydrotherapy should help! Each day they’ll get stronger! 

Gower got his stitches out, it looks good a few scapes which I get nervous about infection but I’m keeping him from licking them and still using the cone at night, he has a soft fold one so it’s not bad. I wish his rehab appointment was sooner, but we are almost there 2 weeks to go. I just wish they hadn’t of moved locations being 10 minutes away was so much more convenient. There are two home therapy places but I called one last time and wasn’t impressed, so we will see how often we will take him to the other place.

I submitted Gowers claims to his pet insurance and they actually ended up covering 90% of the surgery after we met the deductible. we had signed him up for the insurance last September and I knew obviously his other leg would be considered a pre-existing condition and if anything happened with that they wouldn’t cover it but I thought I had read that the other leg would also be a pre-existing condition because of having the surgery on the other one but they ended up covering it so that’s good just with the rehab though the rehab isn’t till 8/2 and I don’t know if they have like a package rehab there where you pay for everything upfront that’s what it was at their old location but now they’re part of a new practice gowers like policy resets at the end of August and we have a high deductible to have a lower premium as I just got it for emergencies and all the scary things that can come up , I don’t know how the pet insurance will cover the rehab but we’ll see I mean we expected them to cover nothing so any bit helps.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Goldenretrievermama0217 said:


> That all sounds like good progress! It’s a lot of work, but putting it in now will help her be even stronger. And the hydrotherapy should help! Each day they’ll get stronger!
> 
> Gower got his stitches out, it looks good a few scapes which I get nervous about infection but I’m keeping him from licking them and still using the cone at night, he has a soft fold one so it’s not bad. I wish his rehab appointment was sooner, but we are almost there 2 weeks to go. I just wish they hadn’t of moved locations being 10 minutes away was so much more convenient. There are two home therapy places but I called one last time and wasn’t impressed, so we will see how often we will take him to the other place.
> 
> I submitted Gowers claims to his pet insurance and they actually ended up covering 90% of the surgery after we met the deductible. we had signed him up for the insurance last September and I knew obviously his other leg would be considered a pre-existing condition and if anything happened with that they wouldn’t cover it but I thought I had read that the other leg would also be a pre-existing condition because of having the surgery on the other one but they ended up covering it so that’s good just with the rehab though the rehab isn’t till 8/2 and I don’t know if they have like a package rehab there where you pay for everything upfront that’s what it was at their old location but now they’re part of a new practice gowers like policy resets at the end of August and we have a high deductible to have a lower premium as I just got it for emergencies and all the scary things that can come up , I don’t know how the pet insurance will cover the rehab but we’ll see I mean we expected them to cover nothing so any bit helps.


Hi, how’s things?

I haven’t heard of soft fold cones,I’ll look into those. Though Eva has never had a problem with cones….I don’t think she’s quite smart enough to know it’s really there!

Eva had dissolving stitches so we didn’t have to do anything there. And now, the new hair is almost covering up the scar.

I think we’re making progress with her putting more weight on her leg when she’s just standing. We’ve been doing all the suggested exercises and now when I nudge her rear weight to the left leg, there are times when I don’t need to as she’s already standing straight and even. She still hobbles for a moment after she’s been resting, but it’s not so severe.

I’m not sure if this a good sign or not…but…. Eva has a thing about humping me if I stand close to my wife and sons and laughing! It’s not aggressive, she’s always done it, we’ve tried to stop her, but if she thinks we’re having fun she wants to join in too and I think she just gets over excited. Anyway, this weekend, without warning she jumped up and started humping me. Obviously I shouted at her and she got off but her leg seemed fine! And she also got onto the sofa yesterday when I wasn’t looking. I lifted her back down. Anyway, neither events caused any problems.

So I think her leg must be feeling better, but that means I need to be even more vigilant, just at the time when it’s tempting to relax! She’s still always on the lead in the garden and we won’t change anything until the X-rays, which are in a week’s time.

So pleased to hear your insurance company paid, that’s great news! Mine covers up to £1000 of rehab out of a separate limit. So up to £7000 a year on usual medical stuff, plus £1000 on rehab. Good job too as I we’re getting close to the limit now…I just hope the other knee doesn’t go for 6 months when it renews. I wonder what they’ll put the premiums up to. It’s already £50 a month…worth every penny though!

So, a week until the X-rays, fingers crossed they’ll be okay and then I’m starting to feel there’s light at the end of this tunnel. We were all (inc Eva) meant to go on vacation to a cottage by the sea on 13th August, but we cancelled it a couple of months ago as we just didn’t know how she’d be. I still think it was the right decision, but I could do with a break! My wife and son are going abroad for a week instead and leaving me with Eva and our other son. At least we should be able to go on some longer walks by then. That’s me and Eva, my 19yr old student son doesn’t really get out of bed unless he has to!


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Hi, how’s things?
> 
> I haven’t heard of soft fold cones,I’ll look into those. Though Eva has never had a problem with cones….I don’t think she’s quite smart enough to know it’s really there!
> 
> ...


Everything here seems to be going okay, we are back up to doing longer walks gower has always been a slow walker the past few years with his age and arthritis a 45 minute walk with him is sometimes only a mile he likes to stop and look around and is very stubborn if we don’t go the way he wants he won’t go. We went on a 30 minute walk Sunday he was done before we got home, laid down twice I think it was more so the heat. Certain areas he just loves to lay down and roll on the grass regardless so we try to avoid those areas or our walks will take forever. He walks with a slight limp but seems to be fine. He even kicked the dirt back after going to the bathroom the other day. However when he is just standing you can tell he doesn’t put full weight on the leg and holds it up a bit. We put the cones with the poles up for him to go over everyday when we take him out and he is doing good on those.

We go to his first rehab appointment next Tuesday so we will say what they say. I try to do the range of motion exercises with his leg and he pulls back so seems it’s not as lame. I may start trying a few more things at home with him this week for rehab to keep building up.

I’m glad Eva seems to be putting more weight on. It will be good to get the X-rays next week to see how she is healing. It’s good to hear she is acting more like herself. I know gower loves to hump my sisters golden so I worry about what next time we go to visit my moms.

I am sorry you had to cancel your trip to the sea I know you mentioned that originally. Hopefully next year Eva will be even better and ready to go. Hopefully you and Eva will get to enjoy some long walks together if the weather cools down there, does it get cooler at night? My sisters husband is from North Wales and my sisters in laws live over there and they have talked about how warm it is places. Maybe even get your son to go on one or two walks with you.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Goldenretrievermama0217 said:


> Everything here seems to be going okay, we are back up to doing longer walks gower has always been a slow walker the past few years with his age and arthritis a 45 minute walk with him is sometimes only a mile he likes to stop and look around and is very stubborn if we don’t go the way he wants he won’t go. We went on a 30 minute walk Sunday he was done before we got home, laid down twice I think it was more so the heat. Certain areas he just loves to lay down and roll on the grass regardless so we try to avoid those areas or our walks will take forever. He walks with a slight limp but seems to be fine. He even kicked the dirt back after going to the bathroom the other day. However when he is just standing you can tell he doesn’t put full weight on the leg and holds it up a bit. We put the cones with the poles up for him to go over everyday when we take him out and he is doing good on those.
> 
> We go to his first rehab appointment next Tuesday so we will say what they say. I try to do the range of motion exercises with his leg and he pulls back so seems it’s not as lame. I may start trying a few more things at home with him this week for rehab to keep building up.
> 
> ...


Hi,
Yes, it's still pretty hot/warm here and spoiling all the preconceptions of UK weather, it hasn't rained where I am (just North of London) for over a month!
Wow...you are ahead of us on the walking times! We're still at 15 min 3 times a day. And have been told to stay there for another week. 
We went for our 6 week X-ray yesterday. All as it should be. The bone hasn't healed yet but it's on the way and the plates and screws are exactly where they were. So all those lapses like jumping on the sofa, a dash in the garden and now several humping incidents hasn't caused an issue, phew!
But (there's always a but!) since she's been home she not putting much weight on the leg. It's like we've gone back a month. I guess the muscles are sore from all the pulling and manipulating they must have done during the checking and X-rays. Our surgeon did a thorough investigation before they took off Eva. And I've just tried taking her for a walk but we just got down the street and she wanted to turn back. Hmm...
And the anaesthetic messed her up. She wet herself 3 times at home yesterday and pooped on the carpet 😬 The washing machine hasn't stopped running! She seems okay in that department today (apart from the not walking).
The surgeon said we can increase walking by 5 mins next week and then 5 more minutes every two weeks. Then, at 12 weeks we have 5 mins of off lead and build up in the same way. But basically at 12 weeks (6 weeks from now) we can walk as much as we want. 

How's Gower doing, is he putting more weight on his leg now? Hope the rehab appointment goes well.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

I called the surgeon and told him about the setbacks. He thinks her muscles probably weren't used to the manipulating they did and the effects should wear off by the end of the week, if not then I should call back. 
He was surprised to hear about the incontinence, said that's not unheard of but it's not common. And I've I realised now why she was wet when I collected her after her first x-ray...I thought it was just water!


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> I called the surgeon and told him about the setbacks. He thinks her muscles probably weren't used to the manipulating they did and the effects should wear off by the end of the week, if not then I should call back.
> He was surprised to hear about the incontinence, said that's not unheard of but it's not common. And I've I realised now why she was wet when I collected her after her first x-ray...I thought it was just water!


I am glad to hear the X-rays at least show she’s making progress where she should be at this time. Gower to as also made his way on the sofa just once though, we cover the sofa at all times when we aren’t sitting there and right now I have my computer set up downstairs just in the living room so I can be with gower and my husband forgot to move the chair we have blocking it back and I hadn’t realized and he jumped right on up happy as could be haha I feel bad not allowing him on the coach but we have to do what is best for them. I am ready for gower to be able to do the stairs that way I can move my desk out of the living room and back to my office upstairs. How is she doing today? Is she still having issues with going to the bathroom on herself or inside?

The place we take gower to for his surgery actually does the X-rays for the follow up not under anesthesia which I prefer that health wise but it’s not the most clear image and might of been why there was some discrepancies of the follow X-rays last time.

With the walks according to our guide from her vet gower is fine to be doing 20-30 minute walks he doesn’t seem to be in pain at all and is actually wanting to walk he has a slight limp but when we are walking is actually when we see him putting weight on the leg. But we took him to his rehab consult today, and she said he should be walking 5 minute walks 2-3 times a day, which I don’t agree with at all.

I am very conflicted after our rehabilitation consultant obviously gower has a lot of other issues due to his age and having arthritis so we are also dealing with that on top of the cruciate tear so we always know we will have to provide extra care for all that overall she said he is doing good but isn’t bearing much weight on the surgery leg, and that is causing him more pain in his shoulders and spine and hips with the arthritis. They actually do a stance analysis these are his results I guess typically the front legs ideally should be 30/30 and backs 20/20 but he is putting a lot of weight in that left side which isn’t great for his arthritis and knee on that leg.


Stance Analysis PerformedLF:24
RF:35
LR:32
RR:09
The exam took over an hour and a half this vet is very in depth which I like, and I know she truly cares but we weren’t able to be in the building with him they don’t have the space and don’t allow anyone inside which I don’t like as we where able to be at all his rehab appointments before. She wants his treatment plan to be 1-2 times a week for 3 weeks to go there for underwater treadmill, cold laser therpy, and then a chiropractor adjustment as they have a dog chiropractor there and then after 3 weeks they will do a recheck. It’s a bit pricy if we did once a week for 3 weeks it’s $721 I believe insurance would cover it, but it also comes to scheduling and driving there, it’s about an Hr and 15 minutes away so basically that’s about 3.5 hours we’d have to account for and that’s if we go middle of the day if we went for a later appointment we’d run into a lot of traffic which Orlando, Florida traffic is not I want to be a part of. There schedule is also very tight and luckily my husband days off are during the week, and mine the typically weekend so we can alternate who goes since they do have weekend appointments available. Part of the treatment plan they also want him on 3 pain medications plus arthritis injections which we currently do once a month, but adding the 3 pain medications long term I don’t think we are there yet. One that she prescribed I’ve tried to research and there isn’t much out there on it. She wants him on gabepintin which he’s been on long term for a bit, but she also wants us to put him back on Carprofen for 2 weeks then as needed, the new one she wants us to add is Amantadine which I can’t find much about in dogs. I get nervous with all these medications as they can do damage to his kidneys and I’m already a worrier and I feel he’s been drinking more water lately , and I just read into it all too much maybe. We didn’t give him any of the medications yet, I’ll try to do some more research tomorrow.

In terms of the rehab I’m torn if I want to take him there honestly - I love the vet, but I also feel it’s just so far and it just doesn’t seem like they are going to be doing much - we have a vet who does cold laser therapy 5 minutes away from our house, and we did find a chiropractor about 30 minutes away that is a bit cheaper, and in the opposite direction where traffic isn’t as bad. Plus I don’t love pushing all the medications, I know eventually he will need to be on something but right now I think we are at a manageable point. I don’t want to burn any bridges by saying we are t going to do rehab with them, I’d still like him to be able and go do a recheck appointment with the vet there maybe every 3-6 months but the only reason to go would be the under water treadmill which is that really going to make a difference doing it 3 times. Right now we only have 3 appointments booked the 13th, 18th, and 25th I guess at this point it might as well just be worth going to do those 3 and go from there, and we can look at the other options for after that. His X-rays 8 week X-rays are on the 2nd of September. Lots to think about.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Such dilemmas, yes lots to think about and I can totally relate to most you're going through. I've also booked Eva in for 3 hydrotherapy sessions (about an hour away) and will see how things go. I can't really see how one 20 minute session a week will make a vast deal of difference but it's more for their expert advice and monitoring how she's progressing, which I think will be mainly due to time, the home exercises and the walking we're doing.
I've been following the hospitals advice and ramping things up a little by referring to this Medvet advice, attached. But we're still very much at 15 min walks and won't be at 30 min walks for another 6 weeks. I too feel she could do much more and she's not limping when walking at all, in fact she's got her little trot back! 
But, when standing she's still leaning on her other leg and the surgeon confirmed how the muscles had shrunk. You'll remember it got worse after Tuesday's X-ray, but it's improving again now. They must have just stretched her muscles further than they've been for a while and made them sore.
We haven't done anything as advanced as Gower's stance analysis, though I saw that on TV last week and thought how great that would be for Eva.
Sorry to read all about the pain medications, I guess we'll be going through all this too at some stage. But for now Eva's not on anything except for the fish oil I squirt on her food. I may look into some other supplements, knowing that she's bound to get arthritis at some stage. 
We took Eva to the pub last night, for the first time in 2 months, she was so excited...so was I! She did really well and after the usual frantic 5 mins calmed right down and let us enjoy our meal. Nice to have a bit of our old lives back!

Good luck with all the dilemmas and best wishes to Gower!


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Such dilemmas, yes lots to think about and I can totally relate to most you're going through. I've also booked Eva in for 3 hydrotherapy sessions (about an hour away) and will see how things go. I can't really see how one 20 minute session a week will make a vast deal of difference but it's more for their expert advice and monitoring how she's progressing, which I think will be mainly due to time, the home exercises and the walking we're doing.
> I've been following the hospitals advice and ramping things up a little by referring to this Medvet advice, attached. But we're still very much at 15 min walks and won't be at 30 min walks for another 6 weeks. I too feel she could do much more and she's not limping when walking at all, in fact she's got her little trot back!
> But, when standing she's still leaning on her other leg and the surgeon confirmed how the muscles had shrunk. You'll remember it got worse after Tuesday's X-ray, but it's improving again now. They must have just stretched her muscles further than they've been for a while and made them sore.
> We haven't done anything as advanced as Gower's stance analysis, though I saw that on TV last week and thought how great that would be for Eva.
> ...


That is great you got to take Eva back to the pub! Gower is the same when he is standing putting all the weight on the other leg. I guess I’ve decided we will do the 3 weeks of the rehab, but like you said with Eva not sure how 3 weeks will make much difference. Gower will do 3 weeks of the underwater treadmill, cold laser therapy , and 2 chiropractor sessions, and that will bring us up to our follow up X-rays so that will be good. We have some at home exercises they gave us to do to help with weight shifting to get him using the surgery leg.

I too also use the medvet guide some, I love that it has a week by week guide.

I am not doing the medications right now, I will have to do more research I’m glad I held off because Gower was actually sick Tuesday night into last night woke us up a few times during the night to go to the bathroom, and couldn’t keep his food down yesterday morning the vet had told us he had a lot of peanut butter at his appointment so we will definitely be telling them he can’t have peanut butter during his rehab if they’ll be giving him that much.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Goldenretrievermama0217 said:


> That is great you got to take Eva back to the pub! Gower is the same when he is standing putting all the weight on the other leg. I guess I’ve decided we will do the 3 weeks of the rehab, but like you said with Eva not sure how 3 weeks will make much difference. Gower will do 3 weeks of the underwater treadmill, cold laser therapy , and 2 chiropractor sessions, and that will bring us up to our follow up X-rays so that will be good. We have some at home exercises they gave us to do to help with weight shifting to get him using the surgery leg.
> 
> I too also use the medvet guide some, I love that it has a week by week guide.
> 
> I am not doing the medications right now, I will have to do more research I’m glad I held off because Gower was actually sick Tuesday night into last night woke us up a few times during the night to go to the bathroom, and couldn’t keep his food down yesterday morning the vet had told us he had a lot of peanut butter at his appointment so we will definitely be telling them he can’t have peanut butter during his rehab if they’ll be giving him that much.


Yes, being able to go the pub again makes sooo much difference!!
They haven't mentioned laser therapy for Eva so I think we just have the underwater treadmill on Tuesday. I'll let you know how that goes.
This sickness and diarrhoea is something we've been getting used to after our numerous vet visits. I thought it was the stress or the anaesthetics giving her diarrhoea but I'm now thinking they (not just the hospital but our regular vet) give Eva all sorts of treats and random food, despite them saying they only give the same food we do. This last time, I said she was still on hypoallergenic food so no treats and she came home without any tummy troubles at all. (The incontinence was new, but that's got to be the anaesthetic).
Looking forward to starting 20 min walks soon, we've been at 15 mins 3 times a day for 3 weeks and I can walk them with my eyes closed! (Not sure why the surgeon said another week at 15 mins, but with the setback after the x-rays I'm happy being cautious, we're obviously not out of the woods yet.


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Yes, being able to go the pub again makes sooo much difference!!
> They haven't mentioned laser therapy for Eva so I think we just have the underwater treadmill on Tuesday. I'll let you know how that goes.
> This sickness and diarrhoea is something we've been getting used to after our numerous vet visits. I thought it was the stress or the anaesthetics giving her diarrhoea but I'm now thinking they (not just the hospital but our regular vet) give Eva all sorts of treats and random food, despite them saying they only give the same food we do. This last time, I said she was still on hypoallergenic food so no treats and she came home without any tummy troubles at all. (The incontinence was new, but that's got to be the anaesthetic).
> Looking forward to starting 20 min walks soon, we've been at 15 mins 3 times a day for 3 weeks and I can walk them with my eyes closed! (Not sure why the surgeon said another week at 15 mins, but with the setback after the x-rays I'm happy being cautious, we're obviously not out of the woods yet.


Hey There! How is everything with Eva, How did hydrotherapy go with Eva? Have you started your 20 minute walks with her yet? Hopefully it’s not as hot there. 

Gower has been doing okay, no noticeable improvements still not fully bearing any weight on the leg when standing inside , I need to get better at doing the exercises the rehab gave us, he doesn’t enjoy them. He puts weight on it just fine to walk, I don’t think think he is walking with a limp anymore. We have hydrotherapy and laser Saturday - hope all that goes well. And Thursday he has that, and the chiropractic adjustment that will be interesting, I was we could be in the room to watch that.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Hi!
We're doing fine thank you! The hydrotherapy went well. You may remember we did a trial session about a month ago which was a little frantic, but this time Eva settled into the walking and did really well. She did 8 and half minutes walking in total over about 20 minutes. The physiotherapist was pleased with progress overall. She could see a slight limp when walking (I can't) and agreed that the weight bearing when standing was improving. So, we're raising the bars she walks over to her ankle height (actually a little more because I don't have anything that height so I'm using bricks on their ends) and doing repeated sits to stand exercises. She also said we can start doing some trotting on our walks. But in this heat, not much of that is going to happen! She actually leapt over the last of the bar though, so I'll keep her on the lead for those now. I do let her off the lead in the garden now, I know I shouldn't but she is a very calm dog. If she's anxious to go out though (probably because she's imagined a squirrel), I do go out with her on the lead and once the zoomies has stopped then I take the lead off and she's fine just walking around and sniffing. Most of the time she wants to lie in the sunshine and then I'm dragging her into the shade!
The 20 min walks make a lot of difference here. We can walk in a circular route to the shops, through a park and back home or we can take a different route which is mainly a footpath covered by trees...ideally in this heat. It's still over 90f here. I'm sure you're very used with that but here we're struggling! We can't do 3 walks a day, as it's too hot in the day, so we just do morning and evening. The physio said that's fine.
So all in all, she's doing pretty well.
Sorry to hear there's no noticeable improvement with Gower. Hopefully he's just at that slow stage where Eva was about a month ago when I wasn't seeing anything happening either and was getting quite worried, then things slowly started to improve. Eva doesn't seem to mind the exercises so long as I have a selection of treats in my hand, then she hasn't a thought in her head other than the snack! Though I admit we don't do as much as we probably should do.
Looking forward to hearing how all Gower's treatments go! Good luck!!


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Hi!
> We're doing fine thank you! The hydrotherapy went well. You may remember we did a trial session about a month ago which was a little frantic, but this time Eva settled into the walking and did really well. She did 8 and half minutes walking in total over about 20 minutes. The physiotherapist was pleased with progress overall. She could see a slight limp when walking (I can't) and agreed that the weight bearing when standing was improving. So, we're raising the bars she walks over to her ankle height (actually a little more because I don't have anything that height so I'm using bricks on their ends) and doing repeated sits to stand exercises. She also said we can start doing some trotting on our walks. But in this heat, not much of that is going to happen! She actually leapt over the last of the bar though, so I'll keep her on the lead for those now. I do let her off the lead in the garden now, I know I shouldn't but she is a very calm dog. If she's anxious to go out though (probably because she's imagined a squirrel), I do go out with her on the lead and once the zoomies has stopped then I take the lead off and she's fine just walking around and sniffing. Most of the time she wants to lie in the sunshine and then I'm dragging her into the shade!
> The 20 min walks make a lot of difference here. We can walk in a circular route to the shops, through a park and back home or we can take a different route which is mainly a footpath covered by trees...ideally in this heat. It's still over 90f here. I'm sure you're very used with that but here we're struggling! We can't do 3 walks a day, as it's too hot in the day, so we just do morning and evening. The physio said that's fine.
> So all in all, she's doing pretty well.
> ...


Glad to hear Eva is doing well, and doing longer walks. It definitely makes a difference, and now you can enjoy a bit more scenery. How is the hydrotherapy going? Gower has had two sessions so far of hydrotherapy, cold laser and one chiropractor adjustment he seems to be doing well he is sore after rehab appointments but that seems to be excepted we have one more currently booked and they will do a recheck exam and see how he is doing next week, then the following week we have the follow up with the Surgeon to see how he is healing. Overall all seems well so hoping for a good out come from those X-rays .
Hopefully it’s cooled down a bit there for you! Looking forward to see how Eva has been doing.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Hi,
Good to hear things are going well. Is he putting more weight on his leg now?
The hydrotherapy went well this week...the licky mat makes all the difference! This was our latest session....Eva Hydro

As the weather's cooled a little (thank you!) and we're now doing 3 x 20min walks and I'm also reaching my 10000 steps a day! 😁. We run a little too, just for 10 seconds at a time, Eva will trot or do a little bit of run. 

She's got a bit nervous around the more excitable dogs now, even on the lead one tried to mount her and she really wasn't impressed and made her feelings known (and rightly so!). But since then, she's definitely more cautious unless she knows the dog. 

Hope recheck goes well, will Gower be anaesthetised or will you go with the lower resolution ones again?


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Hi,
> Good to hear things are going well. Is he putting more weight on his leg now?
> The hydrotherapy went well this week...the licky mat makes all the difference! This was our latest session....Eva Hydro
> 
> ...


Very glad to hear the weather has cooled down there! Still very warm here, and will be for awhile. How many more hydro sessions will she have?

Gower to me is doing well. But according to the rehab vet they want him to start shockwave Therapy for his arthritis in the knee he has surgery on last year, and do another 4 weeks of rehab hydro, chiropractor, laser, and some other land rehab, and of course our insurance policy deductible resets in 5 days. She also is still pushing the pain meds but I just don’t want him all on these medications. It’s a lot.

We have his follow up appointment with the surgeon Monday evening he will be awake for the X-rays so we will see how those turn out. We have trazodone to give him to calm down so hopefully it will go smoothly. The rehab vet did say his knee looks good and is doing well with it so hopefully X-rays will show the same. He is putting more weight on it at times, but others just doesn’t bother too. We will get there.


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Goldenretrievermama0217 said:


> Very glad to hear the weather has cooled down there! Still very warm here, and will be for awhile. How many more hydro sessions will she have?
> 
> Gower to me is doing well. But according to the rehab vet they want him to start shockwave Therapy for his arthritis in the knee he has surgery on last year, and do another 4 weeks of rehab hydro, chiropractor, laser, and some other land rehab, and of course our insurance policy deductible resets in 5 days. She also is still pushing the pain meds but I just don’t want him all on these medications. It’s a lot.
> 
> We have his follow up appointment with the surgeon Monday evening he will be awake for the X-rays so we will see how those turn out. We have trazodone to give him to calm down so hopefully it will go smoothly. The rehab vet did say his knee looks good and is doing well with it so hopefully X-rays will show the same. He is putting more weight on it at times, but others just doesn’t bother too. We will get there.


I love the video of Eva doing her hydro session! Unfortunately they don’t have the space to allow anyone into the rehab office we go to but they are moving to a new building so maybe we will be allowed in there.


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Gower had his X-rays today the doctor said the bone is healing nicely and it’s time to start increasing things and get back to normal. Cleared him for stairs, and jumping on the couch. We allowed him to come upstairs tonight will keep the couch block because I don’t like how he likes to run in the house and jump at an angle to get on the couch we will take it slowly. 

We are doing another 4 weeks of rehab, adding in shockwave therapy for the arthritis, and he wi do hydro treadmill, and some land therapy.

Of course he developed a hot spot behind his ear the end of last week so working on trying to get that to heal quickly.

hope Eva is doing well


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Great to hear how well Gower is doing!! Such good news. Sorry about the hot spot though...behind the ear? I thought they were caused by excessive licking, he must have a very long tongue?! Eva's had plenty of those too. In the end I stopped taking her to the vet at £70 a visit for some Fusidic Acid and (after plenty of Internet research) used Brulidine which is for humans but safe on dogs. Hope it clears up soon.

You've definitely over taken us on what Gower's allowed to do! Not that there are any problems with Eva, just that our schedule is more conservative. However, although I'm not letting Eva upstairs yet this last week I'm not stopping her from getting on the couch. She's always climbed up so gently, but it's the jumping down that worries me, so I try and slow that down. 

We're at 10 weeks now, so the bone should be completely healed (it was doing well at 6 weeks). I'm breaking the rules slightly now and we've done 35 and 40 min walks and also been running on the lead, good workout for me too! Just for 10 second trotting and sprinting. I'm watching for any signs of stiffness and let her go at her own pace. I n 2 weeks (12 weeks from surgery), we can let her off the lead for 5 mins...so I'm building her up for that. We're also walking over planks, doing lots of sit-to-stands, walking backwards and up and down pavements (sidewalks) in an S pattern. Luckily she's so motivated by food that it's easy and I think she's enjoying it. I'm wondering if after we're though all this whether to do some agility training, or at least get her some stuff like that to play with in the garden.

Hydro tomorrow, which be the 6th (I think). We've got another booked for the following week and then we'll have a think whether she needs any more. The team there suspect she won't.

She's still nervous meeting new dogs that make a move towards her. She always was a little cautious, especially when on the lead but now she'll sometimes bare her teeth, especially if they move towards her back end. I don't think she'd bite (never has) but I warn the owners that she's not happy and try and give her space to back away. Some dogs here are so bouncy and don't look for the signs, I think lack of socialising during lockdown is to blame. We got Eva 4 months before lockdown and did lots of socialisation and training, so she never imposes herself on another dog and always waits to see what they want to do first. 

Anyway, I've got on off track! Interesting to hear about the shockwave therapy for arthritis. I guess we've got that coming down the line at some point. I've started giving Eva Glucosamine, which I hear can help delay the inevitable. 

My insurance has paid up for everything now, a total of £6500 (including original x-rays at local vet and the aborted operation) and now they're paying for the hydro at £80 a visit. We're just about at our £7k limit for the year, so praying nothing else goes wrong before the renewal in January. Next year I may increase our cover to £10k a year....

Any more pics of Gower? I'd love to see how's doing! Best wishes to both of you...keep up the good work!


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Goldenretrievermama0217 said:


> Gower had his X-rays today the doctor said the bone is healing nicely and it’s time to start increasing things and get back to normal. Cleared him for stairs, and jumping on the couch. We allowed him to come upstairs tonight will keep the couch block because I don’t like how he likes to run in the house and jump at an angle to get on the couch we will take it slowly.
> 
> We are doing another 4 weeks of rehab, adding in shockwave therapy for the arthritis, and he wi do hydro treadmill, and some land therapy.
> 
> ...


Hi,
Just checking in to see how things are and give an update from over here. Eva's back on the couch full time and very happy about it too! We're also letting her climb the stairs but I'm walking her down them slowly because she's used to racing down them in the old days! And I broke the rules today ....at 2 weeks ahead of schedule I let her off the lead as she made a new friend in the park and our leads were just getting too tangled as the two of them we rolling around in the grass. I didn't think they'd go anywhere, I thought they'd just keep play fighting but then...they ran off and raced each other in circles!! After 20 seconds (seemed like eternity!) they ran back and I put her on the lead again.

So far, she seems absolutely fine, no limping and happily climbing up onto the couch and up the stairs, so no damage done and probably good practice. Scary though!

On Tuesday uur Physio recommended another 2 hydrotherapy sessions, as she can still see a slight limp (I can't) and some swelling in her knee. She said both absolutely normal for 10 weeks. Eva knows how to do the hydrotherapy now without the licky mat covered in cheese spread. Though she was desperately trying to tell us where it was (in a crate) but we couldn't use it because they'd run out of cheese...so had to make do with a squeaky ball!

Anyway, hope Gower's doing well.


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Sorry for the delayed response! Been a busy last 2 weeks we were able to take a quick 3 night Disney Cruise since Gower is doing a lot better and we were able to leave him with my dad for the weekend he enjoyed just being able to lay on their couch. Gower is doing very well, still trying to limit the running around not that he does a lot of it, just with the tile different places I get nervous but we got a bigger rug for the living room, and different rugs all around. 

He has had two sessions of the shockwave therpy along with more chiro, rehab, cold laser, and hydrotreadmill they say he is doing well. He has one more appointment with all of those this weeks, and then we have a break in between and take him back for cold laser, hydro, and chiro and then a recheck with the rehabilitation vet. He doesn’t appear to be in discomfort, he walks slow but he’s always been that way. He goes up and down the stairs about twice a day I’ve moved my work station back in the office up stairs so he’ll come up with me, and spend the day upstairs until we do a mid afternoon walk, and he’ll come up at night. Luckily our stairs are carpeted. Overall he is doing well.

The hotspot cleared up nicely. I guess Golden’s are prone to get them behind their ear if they get wet and then our outside due to the heat and the moisture. I had given him a bath outback because our shower is upstairs and this was before he was doing stairs and we sat outside for awhile letting him dry off so I guess that is what started the hotspot. We did treated with the Betadine over the weekend prior to the vet and I think that really helped it but once we got there they gave us a spray that had a medication in it and that cleared it up pretty well.

Gower even got to see his cousin golden retrievers this past weekend for a few hours. I was very nervous about that because they are 1 and 2 and both intact males and they are wild Gower gets a long with them well but gower loves to hump the older one and I worry about his knee and his arthritis with him doing that so we have to keep a close eye on them but we went out in my moms garden and they all did their own thing for the most part and gower got to run around a tad and play but he mostly just loves finding dirt and laying in the shade to keep cool.

It sounds like Eva had a good time with her friend in the park. That is great! It’s so good to hear about her getting back to normal. Do you go back to the surgeon at all? I don’t believe Gower will have any other X-ray or another appointment they just said to let him slowly back into doing what he normal does.

The pet insurance has been a blessing for us as well. Our plan is unlimited coverage the only downside is our deductible is $1,000 and covers 90 % which we did that to keep the monthly premium low but it works out. Our insurance did renew Sept 1st so additional 4 weeks of rehab we are doing now won’t be covered I believe our estimate is $1,300 which luckily it will pretty much help us meet the deductible the shockwave isn’t covered though which is $113 a session I guess it’s considered more holistic approach so that’s why it’s not covered. But everything else is the chiropractor the rehab the Hydro therapy the cold laser.

I attached a few pictures. Gower and his cousins he is the one in the middle. And I added a picture I took of Disney’s newest cruise ship at their private island in the Bahamas.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Goldenretrievermama0217 said:


> Sorry for the delayed response! Been a busy last 2 weeks we were able to take a quick 3 night Disney Cruise since Gower is doing a lot better and we were able to leave him with my dad for the weekend he enjoyed just being able to lay on their couch. Gower is doing very well, still trying to limit the running around not that he does a lot of it, just with the tile different places I get nervous but we got a bigger rug for the living room, and different rugs all around.
> 
> He has had two sessions of the shockwave therpy along with more chiro, rehab, cold laser, and hydrotreadmill they say he is doing well. He has one more appointment with all of those this weeks, and then we have a break in between and take him back for cold laser, hydro, and chiro and then a recheck with the rehabilitation vet. He doesn’t appear to be in discomfort, he walks slow but he’s always been that way. He goes up and down the stairs about twice a day I’ve moved my work station back in the office up stairs so he’ll come up with me, and spend the day upstairs until we do a mid afternoon walk, and he’ll come up at night. Luckily our stairs are carpeted. Overall he is doing well.
> 
> ...


Hi,
Sorry it took me a while to reply too. Unfortunately it wasn't due to an amazing cruise! I had to check that picture a few times to make sure it was real! Wow!! So glad to hear Gower's doing well and your life is getting back to normality too.

Same here. Eva's coming on leaps and bounds, literally. I've been doing hour long walks and letting her off the lead for 5 mins. She's loving it. The only lingering issue now is that when she runs, her back legs "hop", both go at the same time. Makes sense if one leg is struggling to keep up. We're back at the physio / hydrotherapy on Wednesday so will mention it then. But hopefully that'll improve as her muscles improve. We're running up hills together (good for me too!) and I make her slowly walk up the stairs, holding back if she tries to push past. I did some googling, and when we're running I try and go at a speed just before she starts to hop. She doesn't seem in pain but when she was running with a spaniel it didn't take her long to lie down and want to play rolling in the grass instead. But she's always been like that!

Not much more to report for now, even the hair has started to really blend in now, most people can't see a difference. I'll let you know how our final (hopefully) trip to the physio goes.
Here's a couple of recent pics. One from our longest walk yet (3 miles) and the other when I caught her just after she stuck her head in the dishwasher...Sunday lunch gravy on her face!


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Hi,
> Sorry it took me a while to reply too. Unfortunately it wasn't due to an amazing cruise! I had to check that picture a few times to make sure it was real! Wow!! So glad to hear Gower's doing well and your life is getting back to normality too.
> 
> Same here. Eva's coming on leaps and bounds, literally. I've been doing hour long walks and letting her off the lead for 5 mins. She's loving it. The only lingering issue now is that when she runs, her back legs "hop", both go at the same time. Makes sense if one leg is struggling to keep up. We're back at the physio / hydrotherapy on Wednesday so will mention it then. But hopefully that'll improve as her muscles improve. We're running up hills together (good for me too!) and I make her slowly walk up the stairs, holding back if she tries to push past. I did some googling, and when we're running I try and go at a speed just before she starts to hop. She doesn't seem in pain but when she was running with a spaniel it didn't take her long to lie down and want to play rolling in the grass instead. But she's always been like that!
> ...


She looks so happy, beautiful scenery too! I miss the UK, my sister used to live in North Wales and I got to visit for a few extended month long visits and I loved it, enjoy having her back close by but miss going over there.

Gower for the past few years has hopped when he ran. However over the weekend we were visiting my mom’s and my sister lives there with her two Golden’s 1 and 2 years old full of energy and my mom has a large fenced garden that they enjoy playing in and for the first time in a few years Gower wasn’t hopping when running! He loved running around chasing the balls, he would rest a lot in between, but it was so nice getting back to normally he seems to be doing really well I do get nervous as the bone is still healing but doing more things does help strengthen it, so that’s a plus. We have a rehab appointment Thursday this is the last one we have scheduled right now he has an hour and a half exam with the rehab vet so we will see what they say.

It’s so great to hear Eva is getting back to normal, all the love and care has paid off for them. Thinking back just a few months when they Could barely go outside to go to the bathroom. 

I will give you an update after our rehab appointment (if we get to go there is a hurricane that we might get impacted by slightly luckily we are in Orlando Florida which is very inland so storms typically weaken by the time they get near us but we might need to reschedule that appointment)


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Goldenretrievermama0217 said:


> She looks so happy, beautiful scenery too! I miss the UK, my sister used to live in North Wales and I got to visit for a few extended month long visits and I loved it, enjoy having her back close by but miss going over there.
> 
> Gower for the past few years has hopped when he ran. However over the weekend we were visiting my mom’s and my sister lives there with her two Golden’s 1 and 2 years old full of energy and my mom has a large fenced garden that they enjoy playing in and for the first time in a few years Gower wasn’t hopping when running! He loved running around chasing the balls, he would rest a lot in between, but it was so nice getting back to normally he seems to be doing really well I do get nervous as the bone is still healing but doing more things does help strengthen it, so that’s a plus. We have a rehab appointment Thursday this is the last one we have scheduled right now he has an hour and a half exam with the rehab vet so we will see what they say.
> 
> ...


Our Thursday rehab appointment was cancelled because of the hurricane hopefully we will be able to reschedule for the following week. Hopefully we won’t have major impacts from the storm, probably just lots of rain and some heavy winds.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Goldenretrievermama0217 said:


> Our Thursday rehab appointment was cancelled because of the hurricane hopefully we will be able to reschedule for the following week. Hopefully we won’t have major impacts from the storm, probably just lots of rain and some heavy winds.


 I heard about the hurricane on our news too. As you say, hopefully it'll be relatively mild. Lots of good wishes from over here.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Neili said:


> I heard about the hurricane on our news too. As you say, hopefully it'll be relatively mild. Lots of good wishes from over here.


Just seen today's news, it's bigger than I thought. Hope you'll be okay...


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

Neili said:


> Just seen today's news, it's bigger than I thought. Hope you'll be okay...


Thank You! We will probably start feeling some impacts Wednesday and more into Thursday the amount rain will be what is concerning but we are all prepared. Luckily just refilled Gowers medication and got him a new bag of dog food, he will have to get used to very quick in and out potty breaks. Hoping we don’t lose power it is still very warm here - They closed Disney World for 2 days and we live very close to there. My husband and I both work for Disney he will be off but I work more on the corporate side and not the parks so I have to work from home until we lose power hopefully that doesn’t happen. Thank you for thinking of us. Gowers appointment got rescheduled all the way till 10/12 so we have a bit of time until he goes back so will be doing more at home exercises with him the next few weeks.


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## Goldenretrievermama0217 (Mar 12, 2020)

I hope all is well over there, and Eva is continuing to heal and get back to normal everyday life. Gower had his rehabilitation evaluation and he is doing really good, they said we are fine to move a home program and come back for a recheck in a month. Only major concern is the knee where he had the surgery is clicking/popping a lot when she was doing the exam , but we don’t notice it regularly at home. We will bring him in once a month for 3 months for a chiropractor adjust, and shockwave therapy just due to his arthritis. And during the next visit we added a massage, as they have a Caine massage therapist he has a lot of tension in his shoulders and spine so they want to try to help relieve some of that. We need to get better about doing it at home.

We faired well in the storm, only some minor flooding around some roads near us but none near our house. Driving out to Gower’s rehab appointment we noticed more damage with lots of trees down, and flooding.

Gower will be spending the next week with his 2 golden retriever cousins a almost 1 year old, and a 3 year old, they are a handful, my sister is going to be very busy keeping an eye on her two, plus making sure gower isn’t doing anything to injury himself he will enjoy it though. And my husband and I will enjoy our vacation.


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## Neili (May 20, 2020)

Hello @Goldenretrievermama0217 ! So sorry for not getting back in touch sooner. I don't think I saw a notification of your last post and then one thing led to another and now it's very nearly Christmas! I kept on wondering how Gower is - I hope the time with his cousins went well! And pleased to hear you weren't too badly affected by the storms. Eva is doing really well. No one would know there's even been a problem with her knee now, but I still spot both legs bunny hopping at the same time when she runs. But she runs fast, keeps with most other dogs and enjoying life to the full. The main issue now is her recall....she has totally lost it! If there's anything else going on remotely more interesting than I am (despite having a pocket full of treats) she'll absolutely ignore me now. Before the op, one blow on the whistle and she's come shooting over to me. But now, and I know she hears it because I can see her ears move, but she totally ignores me if she wants to! On the plus side, apart from those times, I think she is communicating with me more. She might be more headstrong, but I like it, she knows where she wants to go and what to do and desperately tries to tell me with her eyes. She'll look at me and then looks to where she wants to go (or what she wants to eat!). Sometime's it's a walk from the house, other times she'll look at the car and we'll drive to the park. Perhaps I'm listening more too? But if I don't notice, then she'll sit down and stare at me until I give in! When it's time to leave the park, she'll often stop and sit until I go over to her and explain that it's time to go, Daddy needs a coffee and to get on some calls. After a little negotiating and petting then she'll reluctantly stand up and I put the lead on her and off we go. Perhaps all this is nothing to do with her leg, she's actually just matured into a wonderful dog with a lovely personality. Either way, we've definitely bonded more and the cuddles on the sofa are the best part of the day. She wasn't that cuddly before either. So, we made it though some tough months but, all is good! Not sure any anyone will every read to the end of all our posts, but if they do I hope it helps them understand what to expect and that things do get back to normal...or even better! Merry Christmas to you, family and of course, Gower and wishing you a wonderful '23! Neil and Eva


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