# Santilli's Golden Retrievers? (Rhode Island)



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Not knowing the name I went to OFA. 
Neither parent has a record on OFA so they do not have health clearances. Here is the sire's pedigree
Pedigree: Santilli's Not Your Average Bear and the dam's
Pedigree: Santilli's Gift from Above

Basically a back yard pedigree- with no clearances on grandparents either.
I would skip it unless they are $500-700 and you can buy health insurance for the puppy for life. otherwise, you have a completely vacant pedigree and no way of knowing whether parents were correct or healthy, etc- no titles anywhere to indicate trainability or structure.


----------



## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

No clearances listed on offa.org for either parent. The bitch is plenty old enough to have her clearances but the male is underage. For the price they are asking, I would expect full clearances on both parents-hips, elbows, eyes and heart. I would keep looking.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Yikes! At $1600 that very expensive for the value offered. At that price or slightly higher (an additional $400-$900) in your area you can find great breeders with full and verifiable health certifications on the parents, certifications on the generations behind and some sort of competitive achievement that will show the dog either structurally a good representative or has trainability. 

I agree with no health testing and no accomplishments to show, the appropriate pricing for the risk and unknowns should be $500-$700. 

I will attach some resources below. If health is important to you, I encourage you to research and know how to check the health certifications of puppy parents on Orthopedic Foundation for Animals.


----------



## nims9 (May 29, 2017)

We have been looking for a while, where can we find a good breeder in my area (Northeastern Mass)? Can you point me in the right direction with maybe someone who is around my area? I already filled out referrals and I do not like any of the breeders that I have been referred to.


----------



## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

nims9 did you realize the grandparent of the momma dog died at age 3? Even if you don't understand how important clearances are I would be really concerned. There is no cause of death listed and it could have been hit by a car for all I know but too young to not notice.

I realize I'm not in your area but this is about what I paid for my girl and it's possible to trace AKC champions with full clearances back to the 1930's. You can do better.


----------



## SunGold (Feb 27, 2007)

nims9 said:


> We have been looking for a while, where can we find a good breeder in my area (Northeastern Mass)? Can you point me in the right direction with maybe someone who is around my area? I already filled out referrals and I do not like any of the breeders that I have been referred to.


I'd be happy to refer you to some breeders in the area.


----------



## lxcav (Jul 13, 2017)

Nims9, I too almost fell for those replies about assuring the health of a puppy; I was worried about "backyard breeders" and "how could i possibly know for sure" and "why are they so expensive". But then I looked at the websites of the replies, and I decided that they were a bit ... righteous maybe? They are charging a lot more for their dogs and probably paying a lot more for certifications, and they may feel a bit put off by less expensive breeders who don't get certifications. I think you should at least visit the home of the puppy and see the parents then ask some questions. Feel free to ask the breeder if you can visit, and let him know that you have questions about the dogs' health.

Research hip dysplasia to see if it's preventable (check out this website on information about dog food (https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/); ask about xrays, the health of the parents, the health of pups from other litters. If you are looking for a dog to breed, then you may want to go for the full-papered dogs from the OFA breeders, but if you are looking for a family pet, then perhaps this breeder is fine. Ask for a visit.


You can't really get much from k9data (which I have also looked at) because many of the dogs on it are probably family pets, and not updated. 

Also, we recently got a rescue dog "from the south" for $500 - $700, and this dog had a history (i.e. baggage), unknown parents, unknown temperament, worms, and unknown future health problems. I don't think that a pure breed puppy should cost the same as a rescue. I have a feeling that their asking price is comparable to breeders who have pups without the certifications, but again, you'd have to look up how much it is to get the OFA certification and what's involved.

We had a 1/2 breed who never needed any kind of hip surgery. I've known pure breeds who ate socks and needed expensive surgery. You don't "have" to get pet insurance because the dog doesn't come with health certifications, but you might want to get it because dogs love to eat socks!

For a family golden (we do love goldens), I think it's worth it. 

Remember to consider the source of the posts -- most of them look like breeders! Look for posts from "pet owners".

Thanks


----------



## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

lxcav I'm no breeder, just someone that wanted a healthy dog. Have you ever had a dog with hip or elbow dysplasia? Have any idea how painful it is for the dog and expensive to fix? Just saying they are healthy is like a box of chocolates... you never know what's inside. Have you ever come home only to find your dog dead because of an unknown heart condition? 
Anyone that breeds only to line their pockets vs. improving the health of the breed is like buying a used car from a con artist. I paid $1,600 and my girl has a clearance history and titles that goes back to the 1930's. Which dog has the better chance of not having dysplasia? Which one has the background to ensure temperament or size will be breed standard? Read some of the post on this forum from people that took the "discount" route. You will see all the behavior problems, dogs that have a terrible temperament and bite their owners and dogs that had heart conditions.
A rescue is wonderful but you go into it knowing there is no history, the price also includes spay/neuter/heartworm check & shots. Not the same at all.
If you chose not to purchase a well bred dog with clearances that's your choice but recommending someone else take that chance is probably not the best advice. 
There are lots of people that have gotten problem free dogs and that's great but certainly would not pay the same price for the unknown.


----------



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

lxcav said:


> Nims9, I too almost fell for those replies about assuring the health of a puppy; I was worried about "backyard breeders" and "how could i possibly know for sure" and "why are they so expensive".....Research hip dysplasia to see if it's preventable (check out this website on information about dog food (https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/); ask about xrays, the health of the parents, the health of pups from other litters. * If you are looking for a dog to breed, then you may want to go for the full-papered dogs from the OFA breeders, but if you are looking for a family pet, then perhaps this breeder is fine.*...You can't really get much from k9data (which I have also looked at) because many of the dogs on it are probably family pets, and not updated.
> 
> Also, we recently got a rescue dog "from the south" for $500 - $700, and this dog had a history (i.e. baggage), unknown parents, unknown temperament, worms, and unknown future health problems. I don't think that a pure breed puppy should cost the same as a rescue. I have a feeling that their asking price is comparable to breeders who have pups without the certifications, but again, you'd have to look up how much it is to get the OFA certification and what's involved....For a family golden (we do love goldens), I think it's worth it.....Remember to consider the source of the posts -- most of them look like breeders! Look for posts from "pet owners".......


I almost don't know where to start with this post.
Just when I start thinking this forum is boring and on it's way out, someone like this shows up to remind me that there are still a million completely uneducated consumers out there who love Goldens but haven't done all the homework. 

Reputable breeders do all the health clearances recommended by the Golden Retriever Club of America at a bare minimum. They use the information to make the best decisions possible on producing a litter. There is PROVEN research "the rate of ED more than doubled when one parent was affected, and more than tripled when both parents were affected." "... data provided by the Swedish Kennel Club included the following results: “There was a positive relationship between the prevalence of elbow arthrosis of any grade and the percentage of affected dogs with moderate or severe (grade 2 or 3) elbow arthrosis (i.e., matings of affected parents resulted not only in more affected progeny, but also in progeny with more severe grades of elbow arthrosis).” " You don't have to be a genius to see the deal here. You ABSOLUTELY can see it in pedigrees on OFA. It does run in families. Orthopedic Foundation for Animals: Elbow Dysplasia

It's clear that there are very preventable health issues that are proven to have reduced incidence when breeding parents with health clearances. It's not rocket science. It's immoral to know this information and continue to breed dogs without using the available science to reduce the numbers of affected dogs produced. The idea that you're presenting is that a pet is less deserving of a pain free life than a breeding dog. Doesn't the average family pet deserve the best start possible in life? Elbow surgery runs into thousands of dollars PER joint. The recovery time is brutal, several weeks of extreme restriction on movement and no exercise. A nightmare for the dog and the owners. 

Showing up on this forum to accuse breeders who donate their time to attempt to educate the public/average pet owner of having some kind of an agenda regarding puppy pricing and their own pocket book is both rude and uninformed. I'm a pet owner, not a breeder, and I'm probably one of the louder voices on this forum regarding health clearances being absolutely non-negotiable. 

The idea that supporting breeders of pure bred dogs who don't follow simple ethics guidelines on health issues for the breed is acceptable for pets owners is wrong. These people are unethical and deserve no one's hard earned money.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

lxcav, your post says way more about your ethics than you realize I am sure. 
None of the breeders here are even remotely competing with this sort of program- the breeders here who educate do so for the greater good of the Golden Retriever. 
Your rescue came with $500 worth of testing/neutering/chip, etc- so it was a free dog. A BYB, no clearances behind, AKC reg puppy is worth at most $500-700. That's it. And if you truly believe a show/breeding dog deserves a pain free life more than someone's precious pet, shame on you.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

lxcav said:


> Remember to consider the source of the posts -- most of them look like breeders! Look for posts from "pet owners".


You know this quote has a good point in it and also a very questionable one. 

Considering the source of information is a valueable piece of information. Is the source an expert? Do they have anything to monetarily gain by assisting me? These are great questions to ask ones self when looking at posts or resources. Good ones would be Orthopedic Foundation for Animals, www.grca.org and Canine Health Information Center: CHIC Information. All of which are not-for-profit expert organizations advocating health certifications for Goldens. 

On the other hand discounting reliable sources simply because they are a breeder is not a good idea. That would be like saying, "Don't talk to any other mechanics. Only talk to individual car owners about what certifications a good mechanic should have." Another opinion of an expert in a field, especially if there is no financial benefit to that expert is a great thing. Think about health, how often do you hear get a second opinion?

Many of the responses you disparaged were from pet owners, well educated and passionate pet owners. Yes, there are also some breeder responses including mine but you'll notice none said hey don't buy from them, buy from me. All the posters were just pointing out the lack of value for a substantial price tag. 

There should be appropriate value for pricing. Just as you would not want to buy a Kia for the price of a Lexus, neither do we want a buyer to pay a price that should equate to a puppy with a history of health testing in the pedigree which does offer reduced risks to get a puppy that should be half that price. 

If you are happy to ignore the proven benefits of health certifications and the lower risks they equal, that is up to you. Meeting dogs and asking after their health means nothing as most of the genetically heritable health issues are not detectable with out a veterinary specialist using the appropriate diagnostic tools, which is what health certifications are all about.

It always does make me wonder if a poster is actually the breeder being discussed when they join seeming only to post on an older thread where a less than reputable breeder's Kennel is in the title. Especially when the one and only post attacks the other posters, the value of health certifications and advocates visiting the discussed breeder.


----------



## Butl47 (Dec 8, 2017)

We bought a puppy 2.5 years ago from them. Our puppy is very healthy. She is our 3rd Golden, the 1st to not have any skin or ear issues. We are currently considering getting another and it will be most definitely through them. Also so you are aware, their male has studded litters from other local breeders that are charging a whole lot more. 
David B.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

David, it is not an issue what someone charges- it is an issue when someone breeds dogs who have a much greater likelihood to have health issues because of a breeder's lack of concern... especially when those dogs are going to families whose resources may be educationally stretched if there is a problem. I'm glad you have enjoyed your dogs and I hope they remain healthy, but supporting irresponsible breeding is not a thoughtful decision imo- which is supported by all the evidence and experts. And it is certainly not a choice that supports more health in the future for the breed.


----------



## Seadisk06 (Jun 28, 2017)

Funny how some comments have stayed on this thread, while others have been since removed!


----------



## Seadisk06 (Jun 28, 2017)

I have purchased two beautiful Golden Retrievers from Max Santilli, and they are very healthy dogs. I have had their ofa pre-liminary clearances done, and both came back with scores of good! When I purchased my girls from the Santilli’s I asked about clearances. I was told that they have their dogs xrayed and completely cleared by their vet before breeding them. This in my opinion is being responsible. Just because they don’t go through with the documents and pay all of the fees doesn’t mean that they are producing unhealthy dogs. They are not a kennel, they are hobby breeders, creating healthy family pets, not show dogs! I’ve also looked in their dogs pedigree on k9 data at the testing done in their lines, and a lot of the lineage has been tested as well! These pets are family pets, raised in their home with lots of love and attention and it shows through their puppies that they produce! The individuals on this forum that have made negative comments in regards to max have NO idea about him, and what kinds of testing that he has done to his dogs! These individuals are passing judgement on someone and someone’s healthy dogs without knowing the truth about Max, or his dogs. It is very unfortunate that this negative post remains on this forum because the opinions of these individuals are uninformed ones! Also the price that I paid for my dogs with the quality that they are is very worth it! As mentioned in another comment, other breeders in RI and Mass have the same lines as Max and charge a lot more! Most comments are from those who live in the southern part of the country where things are a lot cheaper! The prices of Max’s Golden’s for the unbeatable quality is well worth it! I just had to say my piece because I would not want an individual searching for a Golden to stumble upon these negative uninformed comments and not give Max and his gorgeous Golden’s a chance! It’s so sad that people are able to tarnish someone’s name without knowing about Max, or his dogs and what he does to assure that he produces quality healthy Goldens!!!!


----------



## Seadisk06 (Jun 28, 2017)

I have been looking as this thread for quite some time and felt compelled to give my educated opinion!


----------



## LynnC (Nov 14, 2015)

Seadisk06 said:


> Funny how some comments have stayed on this thread, while others have been since removed!


Hello and welcome. Just a friendly reminder that posts cannot be removed or deleted once posted. A member has 4 hours from posting to edit a post, after that time period it remains in the thread. Below is a link to the GRF Board Rules & Registration Agreement for you to review. Enjoy the forum!

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...6-grf-board-rules-registration-agreement.html


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Perhaps instead of throwing around the word uninformed you might want to look at the information out there by the not-for-profit expert organizations for Golden Retrievers. 

Canine Health Information Center: CHIC Information
https://www.grca.org/about-the-breed/health-research/health-screenings-for-the-parents-of-a-litter/

The posters here are simply holding this breeders program up to the standards for responsible breeding in our country and the truth is he is not meeting them. I am glad you have been lucky with your dogs and experience with this breeder even though he is not doing everything he should for health. Show dog or not does not matter when it comes to health. Show dogs are not somehow more deserving of a breeder who upholds the basic tenants of health screening to improve the odds of healthy puppies. All puppies especially pets are equally deserving of that.


----------



## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

Seadisk06 said:


> Funny how some comments have stayed on this thread, while others have been since removed!


Hmmm, you just joined the forum this month. How would you know about this thread to make this false judgement? 



Seadisk06 said:


> I have purchased two beautiful Golden Retrievers from Max Santilli, and they are very healthy dogs. I have had their ofa pre-liminary clearances done, and both came back with scores of good! When I purchased my girls from the Santilli’s I asked about clearances. I was told that they have their dogs xrayed and completely cleared by their vet before breeding them. This in my opinion is being responsible. Just because they don’t go through with the documents and pay all of the fees doesn’t mean that they are producing unhealthy dogs. They are not a kennel, they are hobby breeders, creating healthy family pets, not show dogs! I’ve also looked in their dogs pedigree on k9 data at the testing done in their lines, and a lot of the lineage has been tested as well! These pets are family pets, raised in their home with lots of love and attention and it shows through their puppies that they produce! The individuals on this forum that have made negative comments in regards to max have NO idea about him, and what kinds of testing that he has done to his dogs! These individuals are passing judgement on someone and someone’s healthy dogs without knowing the truth about Max, or his dogs. It is very unfortunate that this negative post remains on this forum because the opinions of these individuals are uninformed ones! Also the price that I paid for my dogs with the quality that they are is very worth it! As mentioned in another comment, other breeders in RI and Mass have the same lines as Max and charge a lot more! Most comments are from those who live in the southern part of the country where things are a lot cheaper! The prices of Max’s Golden’s for the unbeatable quality is well worth it! I just had to say my piece because I would not want an individual searching for a Golden to stumble upon these negative uninformed comments and not give Max and his gorgeous Golden’s a chance! It’s so sad that people are able to tarnish someone’s name without knowing about Max, or his dogs and what he does to assure that he produces quality healthy Goldens!!!!


Are you Max? Look, I bought a golden from a BYB myself, before I knew any better. No health clearances on the sire and dam. We were still mourning the loss of our beloved golden retriever mix girl (who we loved for 15 years), and we wanted to fill an open hole and found this litter of puppies. 

I adore the "breeders" as people. Good people. But, they know nothing about breeding, or working to improve the breed. They aren't into showing or in performance with their dogs. Noah is actually the little "star" of the three litters with his dock diving, nosework and lure coursing. They do keep up with the litters, they recognize them on their birthdays, they have puppy reunions (of course, none of them are puppies any longer). They cheer lead our posts on FB. BUT - knowing what I know now, and despite the fact that we lucked out for the most part on Noah's health (he does have mild hip dysplasia - and we only know that because we decided to do all four clearances on him ourselves, for our own edifcation), would I recommend another puppy buyer to buy from them? Will I remain friends with them? Of course I will. Good people, but shouldn't be breeding.



> Just because they don’t go through with the documents and pay all of the fees


And the cost to submit your clearances to OFA are negligible. I've submitted Noah's hips and elbows. I haven't done his heart, because I lost it in a move, but I'll have it re-done and submit, and when we re-check his eyes this year, I'll submit that too. And guess what - we're not ever going to breed him. And I, as a PET OWNER, feel that clearances are that important. Honestly, that's a cop out, given what he's charging. 



> The prices of Max’s Golden’s for the unbeatable quality is well worth it


I'm curious how you are quantifying "unbeatable quality" of Max's goldens? As compared to.......? There are no clearances on his dogs to compare either. 



> Most comments are from those who live in the southern part of the country where things are a lot cheaper!


I'm in the south - the going rate for a WELL BRED golden here is $2000 to $2600 these days. And guess what, I'm happy to pay that for our next puppy - hopefully in early summer. Fully health tested sire and dam from a very well respected breeder. 

At the end of the day - it astonishes me how people get so offended when they find out that their breeder isn't really a quality breeder. And the fact that these are hit and run posts. As I said before, I adore Noah's "breeders" as people - they are fine people that I'm happy to call friends. But I won't defend them when it comes to breeding goldens, and I won't be offended if someone were to come on here and say "yeah....no - don't buy from them because.....". Because guess what? It's true. 

So the only logical conclusion I can come up with for these types of posts (and it's not just Max's post) is that it's really the breeder themselves joining under false pretenses, pretending to be a customer. Because honestly - I'm not ever going to join a forum to make ONE post so vehemently defending someone and then just ghost. Particularly when it's a forum about something I love and am interested in (in this case - golden retrievers) - I'm going to want to stick around and participate - but maybe that's just me. Because this post is just too over the top defensive to be just a casual pet puppy buyer. That's usually how you can tell it's the breeder posing as a client. The downright moral offense that someone DARE disparage this "wonderful" breeder who isn't wonderful enough to even do clearances (because, you know, that OFA fee will really cut into that $1600 puppy profit). Just wow.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Seadisk06 said:


> I was told that they have their dogs xrayed and completely cleared by their vet before breeding them. This in my opinion is being responsible. Just because they don’t go through with the documents and pay all of the fees doesn’t mean that they are producing unhealthy dogs. They are not a kennel, they are hobby breeders, creating healthy family pets, not show dogs! .... and what he does to assure that he produces quality healthy Goldens!!!!


SO many things here.... 1.Practitioners are not qualified to clear animals for breeding. Period. 2. It is irresponsible for the breeder and the vet to consider this one opinion sufficient. 3.It costs $40 for hips and elbows to be reviewed by qualified people. 4. They ARE a kennel, not hobby breeders. That does not mean they have to have a kennel building- it means (by the definition of 'hobby breeder') they sell puppies. Hobby breeders' hobby is competition not making puppies. Puppies are a side effect of the hobby. I'd actually call this breeder a BYB if someone asked where to place them on a list of types of breeders... since of the 6 dogs on K9data with their name as owners, there are ZERO titles in 5 gen on any of them, save two who have an imported dog in the 5th gen. 5. Show dogs are no more deserving of good health than pets, one might argue just the opposite. 6. There is no proof he produces quality in any way since there are no titles to make that claim by. Or health, since there are no health clearances.

You need to realize when BYBs breed their animals without any documentation as to their health and suitability to be bred, the real risk to them in getting this documentation is that the dog will fail.... and then they will have lost the last 18 months or so of dog food a 3 vet visits maybe 4. Big woop.


----------



## Seadisk06 (Jun 28, 2017)

Just because I was recently added to the forum, does not mean that I couldn’t look at the negative comments.. anybody can look at the comments and they DO NOT have to belong to the forum...just saying! Most people’s who are buying PETS don’t care about TITLES or Accomplishments from their dogs parents or grandparents, they just care about getting a healthy puppy with a good temperament. Some people prefer to get a puppy from someone’s home, where parents are not kept in cages! Titles mean nothing to MOST people searching for a puppy! That’s wonderful that your dogs have titles and accomplishments, but to the average puppy buyer they mean nothing! Most people are looking for a family pet! I say to each his own! Some people’ prefer to get a puppy from someone like Max, and others from a show kennel... it’s all about preference, and there is NO need to put eachother down and speak negatively about a breeder that you have NO clue about or what they screen their dogs for!!!


----------



## Seadisk06 (Jun 28, 2017)

Oh and one more thing, like I said, I have purchased two Golden’s from Max and have actually become friends with him, As you mentioned about your, “back yard breeder friend”, and your relationship with them! Max is a good person doing good by his dogs and I felt compelled to give readers the true information about his Goldens. One more thing, I think that you are a breeder disguised as a “pet owner” to have such an opinion about clearances and having your “pets” clearances done! Most pet owners don’t do these clearances, as they are PETS, and solely knowing the results will not change your pets health.. so just wanting to “just know for your own education “ is not something most pet owners do... unless you have another motive JS! I’m not here to argue, I’m here because I felt compelled to say what I know about Max! Shredding other breeders apart is NOT cool and I was angry enough to let it be known... and not “ghost” the forum!


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Seadisk06 said:


> speak negatively about a breeder that you have NO clue about or what they screen their dogs for!!!


I'm going to let this drop after this- but- yes, we DO know what is being PROPERLY screened for. There is no option for not listing hips/elbows on OFA> and there is no practitioner who should be giving a go-ahead on breeding animals when there are ways to get actual expert opinions on the worthiness of the breeding animals. 
Your friend is not in competition with any of the breeders speaking here. The people posting here care about the breed as a whole, not his little business. If he too cared about the breed as a whole he would get documented health clearances. People who come here asking about a breeder are asking because they DO care.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Wow, is just all I can say. You have some assumptions about breeding, other buyers and showing that are way of base. 

I show. Do I have Kennels? No. Where do my whole 4 girls live? Loose in the house as pets. Granted I crate train so puppies de get create time just like a lot of other pet homes. Most of the other show people I know are like me. 

Some buyers do care about titles. Is all, no. The ones that do, is it because they a snobby? No, it is because they are looking for very specific things like dogs that conform to the standard, or dogs with proven trainability, or dogs with sting traits for hunting, or they have found that it is easier to find dogs with full and verifiable health certifications from breeders who compete in some venue.

I am sure this person is nice. Most people are if you really give yourself a chance to get to know them. Does that mean he is a good breeder, no. 

For nearly any endevors there is a group such as a trade association that defines the rules, laws or best practices. People have the choice to meet that or not.

If you want your friend to be able to be discussed in the light of being a responsible breeder, perhaps you could take the passion you are displaying here and help him learn what he should be doing to better the chances for health in his puppies.


----------



## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

Seadisk06 said:


> One more thing, I think that you are a breeder disguised as a “pet owner” to have such an opinion about clearances and having your “pets” clearances done! Most pet owners don’t do these clearances, as they are PETS, and solely knowing the results will not change your pets health.. so just wanting to “just know for your own education “ is not something most pet owners do... unless you have another motive JS!


I am also one of those non-breeders that does clearances. I purchased a puppy two years ago from a person that just bred his golden for some extra money. He was good to his dog and the puppies, but in no way shape or form was he breeding to better the breed. Once I fully realized the gamble I took, I knew I had to have her clearances done (she was already spayed, so I can't breed her). Why did I do it? I needed to know if there were problems. She's a very active dog and if she has joint problems, there are preventative measures I could start taking now. Instead of playing fetch with the chuckit, where she frequently launches herself 5 feet in the air, we would do more swimming. I got lucky, she has good hips/elbows/shoulders/knees and is clear for all genetic diseases. But I wouldn't know that without testing! It cost me less than $500 to do those tests. What excuse does a backyard breeder have for not doing those tests? Absolutely none! I get it if they don't show their dogs, as the need for golden retriever puppies is higher than reputable breeders can provide. But not health testing your dogs is dangerous, and potentially heartbreaking for that puppy buyer!

Look up Angel's story, she was a backyard bred pup that ended up needing hip surgery before a year old. Luckily she has a family that made sure she got the care she needs.


----------



## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

I'm another pet owner whom does health certifications on their neutered PET. A good breeder should want all of the puppies they produce to be checked and submitted to OFA. It's valuable information for their breeding program.


----------



## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

Seadisk06;7465178 Most people’s who are buying PETS don’t care about TITLES or Accomplishments from their dogs parents or grandparents said:


> As an average puppy buyer, looking for a pet, *you do not speak for me*. I do care about getting a healthy puppy and the only way to ensure that a puppy has the best chance of being healthy is to choose a breeder who gets all 4 health clearances done and posts the results on OFA. There are too many profit driven dog breeders who will say anything to make a sale but if they won't/don't post verifiable results on a reputable site like OFA, you are taking a big risk and really have no idea what you are getting for a puppy. My dog's breeder posted the health certificates on OFA, has titles for her dogs AND raised them in her home where all her dogs live.


----------



## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

Seadisk06 said:


> Oh and one more thing, like I said, I have purchased two Golden’s from Max and have actually become friends with him, As you mentioned about your, “back yard breeder friend”, and your relationship with them! Max is a good person doing good by his dogs and I felt compelled to give readers the true information about his Goldens.* One more thing, I think that you are a breeder disguised as a “pet owner” to have such an opinion about clearances and having your “pets” clearances done!* Most pet owners don’t do these clearances, as they are PETS, and solely knowing the results will not change your pets health.. so just wanting to “just know for your own education “ is not something most pet owners do... unless you have another motive JS! I’m not here to argue, I’m here because I felt compelled to say what I know about Max! Shredding other breeders apart is NOT cool and I was angry enough to let it be known... and not “ghost” the forum!


Aaaaannnnddd - you would be wrong. Because Noah's breeder didn't do health clearances - I love my PET enough to do the clearances on him to know if we have anything to be concerned about down the line. All PET owners should be doing eyes every year anyway so that they can treat any diagnosis of Pigmentary Uveitis quickly before their PET has to lose their eye(s). 

And I do have to be concerned with his mild dysplasia when he is older - but knowledge is power, and we know how to deal with possible early onset arthritis for him.

I'm thrilled you love your pets as much as I love mine. At this point, you'd be fighting a mamma bear if anyone ever tried to take Noah from me. 

I WISH I had the knowledge that my future breeder has in one pinkie. I'm in awe of her, her program, her love for her dogs, and her as a person. It would be laughable to call me a breeder (especially since I'm not one). But my knowledge about breeding and the breed would barely be a blip compared to hers. I'd want to strive to be as ethical and as knowledgeable as her if I ever had aspirations to breed (and I don't).


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

rabernet said:


> And the cost to submit your clearances to OFA are negligible. I've submitted Noah's hips and elbows. I haven't done his heart, because I lost it in a move, but I'll have it re-done and submit, and when we re-check his eyes this year, I'll submit that too.


Off topic, but can't you ask the cardiologist that did his heart exam for another copy?


----------



## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

mylissyk said:


> Off topic, but can't you ask the cardiologist that did his heart exam for another copy?


Well, I did it at a show, and I don't remember his name.


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

rabernet said:


> Well, I did it at a show, and I don't remember his name.


Doh! :doh:


----------



## Seadisk06 (Jun 28, 2017)

Here I’ll leave my last comment on this thread, as I hope to enjoy the forum, and not see such negative opinionated comments and attack’s on others!


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Oooh, I love the meme game. How about this one.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I'm thinking if I remember right (think back-- was the cardio a big friendly bear kinda guy?) it was Jacobs... in Athens GA- his staff is great about finding lost clearances... but it wouldn't make the slightest diff to do it again.....
OTOH I might be misremembering which show you took him to.
On the memes.... I do so wish sometimes there was a HAHA button...touche Laura...


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Seadisk06 said:


> Here I’ll leave my last comment on this thread, as I hope to enjoy the forum, and not see such negative opinionated comments and attack’s on others!



The things you are arguing about are easily proven. If ANY breeder, is registering their puppies with AKC, including ones that do not show and are only producing pet puppies, they are supposed to follow the Code of Ethics, which you can find on the Golden Retriever Club of America website:

https://www.grca.org/about-the-breed/grca-code-of-ethics/

Which reads in part:

Specific Guidelines
I. Dogs selected for breeding should:
Be of temperament typical of the breed, i.e., stable, friendly, trainable, and willing to work. Temperament is of utmost importance to the breed and must never be neglected or altered from the Standard.
Be of conformation typical of the breed.
Be in overall good health, and be physically and mentally mature (which is generally not until two years of age).
Possess examination reports and certifications as outlined below to evaluate and document status concerning recommended screening examinations; and these reports should be publicly available in an approved online database. Approved online databases include registries under management of veterinary professional associations; registries maintained by non-profit organizations with veterinary staff or advisory boards; and university-based registries under veterinary advisement. U.S. registries should be used for dogs residing in the U.S., unless previously evaluated (as in III below) prior to importation.
Hip and elbow certifications from the Ontario Veterinary College (OVC) prior to its discontinuation in 2012 are acceptable for dogs residing in the U.S., providing the dog was 24 months of age or older at the time of the examination. Reports should be recorded in an approved online database as described above.
Submission of abnormal information to the OFA online database is encouraged.

II. The following reports are acceptable for dogs residing in the U.S.:
Hips – a report from the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) or PennHIP at 24 months of age or older. Since PennHIP results are not automatically published, these results should be recorded in an approved online database as described above.
Elbows – a report from the OFA at 24 months of age or older.
Hearts – a report from a Diplomat of the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine (Cardiology), at 12 months of age or older. Report should be recorded in an approved online database as described above.
Eyes – a report from a Diplomat of the American College of Veterinary Ophthalmology. Examinations should be done within 12 months prior to a breeding, and results should be recorded in an approved online database as described above.
Dogs that produce offspring should continue to have ophthalmology examinations on a yearly basis for their lifetime, and if the findings permit recertification, the results should continue to be recorded in an approved online database.
For frozen semen from deceased dogs, either an ophthalmology examination within 18 months of the date of death, or status that was in compliance with the Code of Ethics in effect at the time of the dog’s death, will be considered current.


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

People on this board are only asking breeders to be ethical, and concerned with producing healthy puppies.


----------

