# It's GR-R-REAT being a GoldRocks Kid!



## GoldRocksMom (Feb 9, 2007)

*more pictures*

More pictures


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

Holy Crap Cuteness Overload. What a great batch of gorgeous puppy pictures! Those little ones just are having a blast being puppies. I love the facial expressions you caught. I'll take two please!


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## Brinkleysmom (Dec 17, 2005)

Oaklys Dad said:


> Holy Crap Cuteness Overload. What a great batch of gorgeous puppy pictures! Those little ones just are having a blast being puppies. I love the facial expressions you caught. I'll take two please!


My sentiments exactly. Great photos Thanks for sharing.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

_Oh my gosh!!! I am in love. The facial expressions on them are just so cute. Looks like their first excursion was a success. I will take two also._


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## KatzNK9 (Feb 27, 2007)

Oh my goodness! Those pics are absolutely precious. Thanks so much for sharing them with us.


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## GoldRocksMom (Feb 9, 2007)

*more pictures*

Pictures of Gravy and Cinnamon

Picture of Proud Gravy relaxing.....

more pictures of the puppies.... yeah, they are adorable ~ enjoy ~


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## GoldRocksMom (Feb 9, 2007)

*Just Had To Show Yall The "ball Pictures"*

I am glad you're enjoying the pictures of the puppies

We will take pictures of GoldRocks, the whole place tomorrow


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

OMG---I'll be seeing beautiful golden pups in my dreams all night!!! What a batch of magnificent pictures of some truly gorgeous furkids(of all sizes I might add) THANK YOU for such great posts.


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## Wrigleysmom (Dec 30, 2006)

Your dogs look really happy and pretty!


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

What a patriotic bunch. They look great. Love seeing healthy happy puppies.

Hooch


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## GoldRocksMom (Feb 9, 2007)

*To go back in time...*

Looking thru files I have to share with you pictures of Gravy as a pup.....
Each day I will try to add another kid from GoldRocks 
Gravy ran for the new mascot for old navy..nope, not picked
On our website he has his own page "gogravy.com"
I never finished his page...one of these days I must
To this day when you say to Gravy "gogravy" he runs
around talking and showing off with the nearest toy available
We tell him he is our superstar, along with all our other superstars!
Gravy at four weeks of age...


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

They sure are cuties......great pictures!


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## GoldRocksMom (Feb 9, 2007)

*Gravy at 8 weeks of age....*

Pictures of GoldRocks Gravy at eight weeks of age


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

They sure are cute!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Oaklys Dad said:


> Holy Crap Cuteness Overload. What a great batch of gorgeous puppy pictures! Those little ones just are having a blast being puppies. I love the facial expressions you caught. I'll take two please!


Holy Crap is right. Gravy, who at 11 months of age sired his very first litter... you must be so proud. Remember, on Goldrocks website in her own words, as to finding a responsible and reputable breeder,*1. Where did you find out about this breeder? 
Indications of a responsible breeder; 

a.only breed when they have a waiting list. 

b.referral from their veterinarian who knows 
the dogs and their condition. 

c.recomendation by a person/family who has a 
puppy from this breeder. 

If this referal did their homework and are 
happy with this puppy you will be able to 
tell by asking questions; *


*____DO both parents (sire and dam) have hip clearances from the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) or PennHip? 

Ask to see certificates and receive a copy 
with the purchase of your puppy. *


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## GoldRocksMom (Feb 9, 2007)

*Very proud*

GoldRocks is very proud of Gravy, Cinnamon, the whole gang

Gravy's preliminary for hips came in Excellent
as well as passing cardiac, CERF examination, normal elbows,
normal patella and BAER certification testing.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Oaklys Dad said:


> Holy Crap Cuteness Overload. What a great batch of gorgeous puppy pictures! Those little ones just are having a blast being puppies. I love the facial expressions you caught. I'll take two please!


Holy Crap is right. Gravy, who at 11 months of age sired his very first litter... you must be so proud. 

**HIPS AND ELBOWS* Dogs must be TWO YEARS 
of age when radiographs are taken and then 
submitted to OFA for certification.* (taken as a cut and paste from Goldrocks website)
Gravy, born 2/20/06 is the proud baby papa of a litter sired on 3/20/07. meaning he was used at stud when 11 months old (breeding done approximately Jan 16 07. Lest we think this was an accident, he was used again on approximately March 22, 2007, at 13 months old, to sire a litter born 5/24/07 - the 9th litter 10 litters born in 07 at Goldrocks. Wow. 
*a.only breed when they have a waiting list. *(cut and pasted from Goldrocks website under what a "good breeder" is) Goldrocks, with 10 litters in 2007, according to their site have pups available form March and May litters. With a waiting list, they'd have none available.


How terrific.


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## Brinkleysmom (Dec 17, 2005)

GIVE IT A REST!!!!


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## GoldRocksMom (Feb 9, 2007)

*GoldRocks puppies*

Ms. Salvatore, get a life and get out of mine, this forum is not the place where our puppies are placed through.
We have three pups available from our litter born May 30th, 2007
who will not even BE READY to go home until the first of August.
The pup you refer to from March is here in training most likely for service


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

No denying using underaged dogs?


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## Brinkleysmom (Dec 17, 2005)

The forum is not the place for this nonsense. If this is a court case, then the last place any of this stuff should be mentioned is in a public forum. You have emails and you have PM's. Use it. I have asked the moderators to step in on this because this has been nothing but a grudge match and this is not the place for it. You both have issues with each other and no one else on the forum. So take it out of here and do it privately. Thank you.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

I asked that this be stopped.

Personal attacks *WILL NOT* be tolerated on this forum!


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## GoldRocksMom (Feb 9, 2007)

*Gravy at twelve weeks of age*

Pictures Of Gravy At Twelve Weeks Of Age

Gogravy!

Other Pup In Pictures Is Velvet, A Sweet Girl

Whose Mom And Dad Both Have Excellent Hips

As Well As All Other Health Clearances

Very Loved By Her Family Who Could Not Be Happier 

With Her 

Pictures Are One Day Before She Went Home


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## GoldRocksMom (Feb 9, 2007)

*GoldRocks Gravy*

Gravy, GravyLump, LumpyGravy, MrGravy, GoGravy, 
our boy gravy...

pictures with mom playing ball

picture with gravy on left, dad Prince in middle and mom Biscuit on right

picture with Prince (dad) and Gravy walking with hats on and grandfather JJ resting

picture with Milli and Gravy getting a drink


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

RickGibbs said:


> I asked that this be stopped.
> 
> Personal attacks *WILL NOT* be tolerated on this forum!


 
Thank you.

Hooch


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

Wow, they are cute! How old are the pups?


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

RickGibbs said:


> I asked that this be stopped.
> 
> Personal attacks *WILL NOT* be tolerated on this forum!


I agree!

BTW... WE ALL KNOW THE RULES AND WILL MAKE OUR OWN JUDGEMENTS.


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## Merlins mom (Jun 20, 2007)

OMG!! Unbelievably cute puppies! They were havin' fun on their first romp!


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## WoodysMum (Mar 13, 2007)

Wow i was in the happy zone looking at all those cute puppy pics, then bang all hell let loose. Have i missed something somewhere. As i dont know what i'm really on about when it comes to breeding etc, im just owned by a GR, all i can see is the dogs look really happy dogs in the pics.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

They are beautiful dogs- Gravy is a real beauty


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## FranH (May 8, 2005)

Beautiful photos. Gravy is a great looking dog......and your photography is fabulous!


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## Griffyn'sMom (Mar 22, 2007)

:doh:

I'll take the "mouth"! :


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I just love this picture


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

Too many from me to pick from.

Hooch


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## GoldRocksMom (Feb 9, 2007)

*any horse lovers out there?*

GoldRocks newest member of our equine kids

We have been calling her "Elizabeth"
due to the marking on her face
Any other ideas for names would be great
Elizabeth is a little short....

Three days old


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## GoldRocksMom (Feb 9, 2007)

have no idea why the pictures did that:doh:

here are more growing and getting hammy for the camera


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

I've been away for awhile but...

I understand this thread is about showing massive amounts of photos from a breeder's collection and in essence advertises her lines to all who visit this forum... whether its explicit or not. So I didn't think it was totally out of line for someone to question OFA clearances and (as I just became aware of: AKC banning and such) other health related issues. In light of what I just recently read about Nancy Lu's tragic situation, I too would like to know the whole truth about a breeder before inquiring to purchase a puppy from them. For me this hits very close to home, literally, as GoldenRocks is one of the several breeders I contacted back in Feb and March with full intentions of purchasing a puppy from them. Even though I ultimately didn't purchase from her kennel (for other reasons) I can sure tell you I would like to know what the truth is as I just met someone yesterday who purchased a pup from a recent litter from this kennel *solely* BECAUSE of all the health assurances that were given them... evidently their last Golden was such a medical nightmare and full of heartache/heartbreak.

I'm sure there is an honest explanation... I'd just like to know what it is. If that would be more appropriate in another thread I'll start one... but I don't believe PMs are appropriate as what is asked should be of public record... that's an obligation one must incur when selling something so personal as life-long relationships to the public at large (I'm talking about regular folk like Nancy Lu). To the OP: Do or did you breed Golden(s) at 11-months of age? You advertise OFA certs, so how can this be? Please explain as I don't quite understand. And why exactly were you fined and banned by the AKC? I just want to hear your side of the story that's all.

Oh, and I think all the pictures are really wonderful... those are some cutie puppies and handsome bigger puppies. They all look very happy and healthy for sure.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

I was about to post "OHHHHH FUZZBUTTS!!!!" and then started reading all the other stuff...sheesh!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I do not know this person OR Pointgold at ALL...

SO all I can say is that the dogs look happy, beautiful, and healthy. If this person did breed dogs under age then, well people make mistakes and what matters now is that the same mistake is not done again. If this person bred dogs with prelims, then he or she is NOT different from more than one respected show person I know who has bred show dogs with only prelims the first litter or two. 

What we feel is right is relative. I personally wouldn't have an issue buying a puppy from parents with an excellent prelim, as long as I saw that this was indeed fact. In the UK, the age for hips is one year anyway, not two, and I didn't have any issue with that situation. 

This is NOT a defense of actions if they were "bad" but rather just some food for thought. Like I said, I don't know anything about this person. I also don't think it's at all unreasonable for anyone here to post photos of their dogs and puppies. Most of us do so regularly, and when Vern posted puppy photos, or when Becky did, or when Hootch does, we don't say they are advertising their litters.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

monomer said:


> I've been away for awhile but...
> 
> I understand this thread is about showing massive amounts of photos from a breeder's collection and in essence advertises her lines to all who visit this forum... whether its explicit or not. So I didn't think it was totally out of line for someone to question OFA clearances and (as I just became aware of: AKC banning and such) other health related issues. In light of what I just recently read about Nancy Lu's tragic situation, I too would like to know the whole truth about a breeder before inquiring to purchase a puppy from them. For me this hits very close to home, literally, as GoldenRocks is one of the several breeders I contacted back in Feb and March with full intentions of purchasing a puppy from them. Even though I ultimately didn't purchase from her kennel (for other reasons) I can sure tell you I would like to know what the truth is as I just met someone yesterday who purchased a pup from a recent litter from this kennel *solely* BECAUSE of all the health assurances that were given them... evidently their last Golden was such a medical nightmare and full of heartache/heartbreak.
> 
> ...


Oh, so there is more to this than I am aware. You do make a very good point here.


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## Dilligas (Jun 17, 2005)

Cute pictures. Administrivia: Moving this to Golden Retriever Puppy forum.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> ...Like I said, I don't know anything about this person. I also don't think it's at all unreasonable for anyone here to post photos of their dogs and puppies. Most of us do so regularly, and when Vern posted puppy photos, or when Becky did, or when Hootch does, we don't say they are advertising their litters.


Yes, but nevertheless they are in effect doing so. The big difference is they are not in court, fined and banned by the AKC for 10-years, breeding dogs under a year of age, etc... to some people these things are considered "red flags" and though you might be fine with it my conscience tells me to ask some questions and pay careful attention to the answers. I'm sure people such as Nancy would most likely disagree with such a cavalier attitude toward the purchasing of another pup. Believe me if I ever found out Vern had "red flags" I would not hesitate for a moment to raise the issue and ask the same questions... I would think you would too, but maybe I've got you figured out all wrong.


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

monomer said:


> I've been away for awhile but...
> 
> I understand this thread is about showing massive amounts of photos from a breeder's collection and in essence advertises her lines to all who visit this forum... whether its explicit or not. So I didn't think it was totally out of line for someone to question OFA clearances and (as I just became aware of: AKC banning and such) other health related issues. In light of what I just recently read about Nancy Lu's tragic situation, I too would like to know the whole truth about a breeder before inquiring to purchase a puppy from them. For me this hits very close to home, literally, as GoldenRocks is one of the several breeders I contacted back in Feb and March with full intentions of purchasing a puppy from them. Even though I ultimately didn't purchase from her kennel (for other reasons) I can sure tell you I would like to know what the truth is as I just met someone yesterday who purchased a pup from a recent litter from this kennel *solely* BECAUSE of all the health assurances that were given them... evidently their last Golden was such a medical nightmare and full of heartache/heartbreak.
> 
> ...



Monomer,

I would like to hear answers to those questions myself as I am in the same area as this person and have also considered buying from them. I honestly do not think, though, that you will get any answers to these questions.

Becky


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Hopefully, we have educated enough members on here to lead newcomers to the list of questions that should be asked of breeders. 

I think a sticky (maybe even it's own page) on the questions to be asked and the answers which should be received, is extremely important.

I spent over $6,000.00 on Shadow for his hips before the age of one. My heart breaks for Summer Lynn and Nancy.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Kimm said:


> Hopefully, we have educated enough members on here to lead newcomers to the list of questions that should be asked of breeders.
> 
> I think a sticky (maybe even it's own page) on the questions to be asked and the answers which should be received, is extremely important.
> 
> I spent over $6,000.00 on Shadow for his hips before the age of one. My heart breaks for Summer Lynn and Nancy.



I wish money would fix Tinkerbell. 

I think a sticky with this info would be a great idea. Lots of people look to a place like this for that info.

A puppy and or dog should not have to suffer like they often do. And we as owners shouldn't either.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

marshab1 said:


> I wish money would fix Tinkerbell.
> 
> I think a sticky with this info would be a great idea. Lots of people look to a place like this for that info.
> 
> A puppy and or dog should not have to suffer like they often do. And we as owners shouldn't either.


You are absolutely correct! I understand your comment and wish money could fix her, too. I understand clearances guarantee nothing, but I will never get another dog (unless a rescue) without them.


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## goldnsport (Jul 8, 2007)

Is this the same Gold Rocks kennel that just got shut down by AKC for denying them access to their records? 

Sounds a little shady to me...


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## GoldRocksMom (Feb 9, 2007)

*To answer your questions*

I will try to answer your questions
If you have more, bring them on
If you choose to not accept the facts,
thats your choice
Just remember, everyone has their own
standard of beliefs and ethics, no matter
how good or ethical you are there will always be someone there that says your wrong
Many believe breeding is wrong period.
ALL I ask is that you accept my answers as my own, make your own decisions and not argue with me about mine.
That is what should not have a place in this forum.

*In answer to *
Originally Posted by *monomer*  
_I've been away for awhile but...

I understand this thread is about showing massive amounts of photos from a breeder's collection and in essence advertises her lines to all who visit this forum... whether its explicit or not. So I didn't think it was totally out of line for someone to question OFA clearances and (as I just became aware of: AKC banning and such) other health related issues. _
_*I do beleive I answered the question regardiing the AKC "banning"*_
_*I hope to resolve this with the AKC BUT if I do not*_
_*that is not going to take away the lines of our dogs or change anything we do.*_
_*I DO NOT feel the AKC has a right to come to your home when you are not there and demand to do an inspection. It was also very coincidental that I had an attorney appointment that day....*_
_*OFA clearances for our dogs are on the OFA database or ready to be sent in with ALL the testing*_
_*complete and radiographs read by Orthopedic specialists for those not yet sent in.*_
_*Some preliminarys are not on OFA database but are in our possesion due to OFA rules .*_
_******what other health issues ???******_
_*In* light of what I just recently read about Nancy Lu's tragic situation, I too would like to know the whole truth about a breeder before inquiring to purchase a puppy from them._
_*Who is Nancy Lu ? She(I ssume) did not get a puppy from me. I do not know if you emailed me, we get numerous emails for puppies and do not get to answer all of them for different reasons.I can tell you that you NEVER visited GoldRocks, not Goldenrocks, and the couple in the UP who did are very happy with their healthy puppy!.* For me this hits very close to home, literally, as GoldenRocks is one of the several breeders I contacted back in Feb and March with full intentions of purchasing a puppy from them. Even though I ultimately didn't purchase from her kennel (for other reasons)_
_*Again, I am very glad you found a cute girl, what reason did you not "buy" from GoldRocks since you never visited?* I can sure tell you I would like to know what the truth is as I just met someone yesterday who purchased a pup from a recent litter from this kennel *solely* BECAUSE of all the health assurances that were given them... evidently their last Golden was such a medical nightmare and full of heartache/heartbreak.

I'm sure there is an honest explanation... I'd just like to know what it is. If that would be more appropriate in another thread I'll start one... but I don't believe PMs are appropriate as what is asked should be of public record... that's an obligation one must incur when selling something so personal as life-long relationships to the public at large (I'm talking about regular folk like Nancy Lu). _
_*AKC Registration and Quality *

FROM THE AKC WEBSITE:
*There is a widely held belief that "AKC" or "AKC papers" guarantee the quality of a dog. This is not the case. AKC is a registry body. A registration certificate identifies the dog as the offspring of a known sire and dam, born on a known date. It in no way indicates the quality or state of health of the dog. Quality in the sense of "show quality" is determined by many factors including the dog's health, physical condition, ability to move and appearance. Breeders breeding show stock are trying to produce animals that closely resemble the description of perfection described in the breed standard. Many people breed their dogs with no concern for the qualitative demands of the breed standard. When this occurs repeatedly over several generations, the animals, while still purebred, can be of extremely low quality. Before buying a dog, you should investigate the dog's parentage (including titles, DNA and pedigree information), the breeder's breeding practices, the breed standard, and the genetic tests recommended by the Parent Club for the breed. *

_
_To the OP: Do or did you breed Golden(s) at 11-months of age? You advertise OFA certs, so how can this be? Please explain as I don't quite understand._
_*FROM THE AKC WEBSITE:*_
_*AKC RULES FOR BREEDING AND AGE REQUIREMENTS*
*IX. OVERAGE/UNDERAGE SIRES*
*AND DAMS*
*Chapter 3, Section 5 of the **Rules Applying to*
*Registration and Discipline **reads as follows:*
*“No dog or litter out of a dam under eight (8)*
*months or over twelve (12) years of age at the time*
*of mating, or by a sire under seven (7) months or*
*over twelve (12) years of age at the time of mating,*
*will be registered unless the application for registration*
*shall be accompanied by an affidavit or evidence*
*which shall prove the fact to the satisfaction of The*
*American Kennel Club*
*The Science Behind AKC DNA Profiles* 

AKC DNA Profiles are generated using the same technology used by law enforcement agencies throughout the world. How does this work? In humans and dogs alike, each gene is present as two copies (displayed as letters). Offspring receive one copy of each gene from each parent in a random process.

This technology does not use actual genes, but other DNA sequences that are also inherited one copy from each parent. For this reason, your dog's AKC DNA Profile does not provide any information about the conformation of the dog or the presence/absence of genetic diseases. Furthermore, AKC DNA Profiles cannot determine the breed of a dog.

*Voluntary DNA Profile *

This voluntary program has resulted from significant input from the fancy. The DNA Profile Program is for owners and breeders electing to add value to their breeding programs by eliminating concerns or questions about identification and parentage.
A dog owner may contact AKC for a DNA Test Kit which includes a swab that the owner uses to collect loose cells from inside the dog's cheek. An AKC DNA Profile containing the dog's registration information, genotype, and a unique DNA Profile number is issued for each dog sampled. This DNA Profile number will appear on subsequently issued Registration Certificates and Pedigrees.


DNA Frequently Asked Questions 

*1. What information does the DNA testing provide?* 

AKC DNA Profiling is for parentage verification and genetic identity purposes only. It does not provide information regarding genetic health, conformation, performance ability, coat color, etc.

*2. Why did the AKC getting involved in DNA?*

DNA offers the AKC the possibility of ensuring the accuracy of the registry in a way never before possible.

*3. What is the DNA Profile Program?*
The DNA Profile Program is a voluntary program the fancy can use to strengthen their breeding programs. Participants receive an AKC DNA Profile with the dog's registration information, owner's name, DNA Profile Number, and the dog's actual genotype. 

DNA Facts and Figures
Through December 31, 2006, the AKC collected over 425,000 DNA profiles in its database. 
The AKC DNA database has samples from 196 AKC and FSS breeds. 
The top ten breeds that are AKC DNA Profiled are: 
Labrador Retriever (29,568) 
Yorkshire Terrier (25,742) 
Dachshund (24,867) 
Poodle (21,971) 
Chihuahua (19,484) 
Shih Tzu (17,595) 
Pomeranian (17,317) 
German Shepherd Dog (13,672) 
Golden Retriever (13,518) 
Beagle (11,734) 
DNA genotyping can be used to establish the identity of a dog and to verify parentage. As each generation is DNA Profiled by the AKC, pedigrees will carry that extra measure of confidence. 
*Compliance Audit Program (Kennel Inspections)* 
DNA has been collected at over 10,000 kennels. 
Over 16,500 litters have been DNA tested. 
Over 90,000 DNA samples have been tested to verify parentage. 
In 2006, 95.5% of litters tested in the Compliance Audit Program have correct parentage. This is improved from 89% in 1998. 


*As for the OFA:*
*Frequently, breeders want early knowledge of the hip status on puppies in a given litter. Preliminary hip evaluations may be as valuable to the owner or breeder as the final OFA evaluation. This allows early selection of dogs for use as show/performance/breeding prospects and dogs best suited for pet homes.​The OFA accepts preliminary consultation radiographs on puppies as young as 4 months of age for evaluation of hip conformation. If the dog is found to be dysplastic at an early age, the economic loss from the cost of training, handling, showing and so forth can be minimized and the emotional loss reduced. These preliminary radiographs are read by the OFA veterinary radiologists and are not sent to outside radiologists. The same hip grades are given to preliminary cases. 
A recent publication* compared the reliability of the preliminary evaluation hip grade phenotype with the 2 year old evaluation in dogs and there was 100% reliability for a preliminary grade of excellent being normal at 2 years of age (excellent, good, or fair). There was 97.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of good being normal at 2 years of age, and 76.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of fair being normal at 2 years of age. Reliability of preliminary evaluations increased as age at the time of preliminary evaluation increased, regardless of whether dogs received a preliminary evaluation of normal hip conformation or HD. For normal hip conformations, the reliability was 89.6% at 3-6 months, 93.8% at 7-12 months, and 95.2% at 13-18 months. These results suggest that preliminary evaluations of hip joint status in dogs are generally reliable. However, dogs that receive a preliminary evaluation of fair or mild hip joint conformation should be reevaluated at an older age (24 months). 
*Corley, EA, et al. Reliability of Early Radiographic Evaluation for Canine Hip Dysplasia Obtained from the Standard Ventrodorsal Radiographic Projection. JAVMA. Vol 211, No. 9, November 1997.

* 
_
_And why exactly were you fined and banned by the AKC? I just want to hear your side of the story that's all.
*PLEASE SEE THE TRUTH FROM MICHIGAN*
Oh, and I think all the pictures are really wonderful... those are some cutie puppies and handsome bigger puppies. They all look very happy and healthy for sure._
Oh, so there is more to this than I am aware. You do make a very good point here.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

It so much easier to read when the print isn't so large.  Thank you for responding.


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## goldnsport (Jul 8, 2007)

I wonder if you have ever read the GRCA Breeders Code of Ethics? You might be surprised as to the GRCA's recommendations on breeding ages.

You really shouldn't be breeding dogs in the first place if all you are going to do is produce "nice pets." Goldens are a popular breed and there are plenty of rescue dogs waiting for good homes. You shouldn't be breeding unless your aim is to improve the breed - for example, to produce a dog for a specific purpose, like conformation, obedience, agility, tracking, hunting/field, search and rescue, etc...or serious pet-assisted therapy programs. I see none of that from you. Breeders who produce no more than "nice pets" are ruining our breed.


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## GoldRocksMom (Feb 9, 2007)

telsmith1 said:


> Monomer,
> 
> I would like to hear answers to those questions myself as I am in the same area as this person and have also considered buying from them. I honestly do not think, though, that you will get any answers to these questions.
> 
> Becky


*Give me a chance to reply and I will try to answer all questions.*

*FYI: Due to the preception that I have made any post or thread to "sell puppies" I will tell you all right now that no one who emails or calls regarding wanting to purchase a puppy from seeing this forum will be accepted as a perspective puppy owner from us.*


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I hope you understand that just about every Golden owner on this forum would be wonderful Golden owners.


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## GoldRocksMom (Feb 9, 2007)

goldnsport said:


> I wonder if you have ever read the GRCA Breeders Code of Ethics? You might be surprised as to the GRCA's recommendations on breeding ages.
> 
> You really shouldn't be breeding dogs in the first place if all you are going to do is produce "nice pets." Goldens are a popular breed and there are plenty of rescue dogs waiting for good homes. You shouldn't be breeding unless your aim is to improve the breed - for example, to produce a dog for a specific purpose, like conformation, obedience, agility, tracking, hunting/field, search and rescue, etc...or serious pet-assisted therapy programs. I see none of that from you. Breeders who produce no more than "nice pets" are ruining our breed.


*Our venue is SERVICE, and the GRCA IS NOT THE AKC NOR is their venue SERVICE, rather showing.*
*I have no need to join the GRCA, I know more than you think.*


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## Heart Of Gold (Dec 3, 2005)

*Oops.* :doh:




Pointgold said:


> Holy Crap is right. Gravy, who at 11 months of age sired his very first litter... you must be so proud.
> 
> **HIPS AND ELBOWS* Dogs must be TWO YEARS *
> *of age when radiographs are taken and then *
> ...


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## goldnsport (Jul 8, 2007)

How many people on this forum would buy a dog from someone claiming such things? You say you don't need to be a GRCA member, because the national club of the type of dog you are breeding doesn't know what they are talking about? Rubbish. The GRCA knows what they are doing, and they are after the best interests of the breed, unlike you.


I really doubt you are into a SERIOUS therapy program. Whom do you place dogs with? I don't think Paws, Leader Dogs, CCI, etc would accept a puppy from someone who breeds 10 litters a year and lets 11 month old pups sire litters.


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## GoldRocksMom (Feb 9, 2007)

Kimm said:


> I hope you understand that just about every Golden owner on this forum would be wonderful Golden owners.


*Kimm, I agree.*
*I did not join this forum to place puppies,*
*Nor did I upload any picture to place puppies*
*I am under attack and need to make decisions*
*for our best interests and hopefully some that do not get that will.*


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## goldnsport (Jul 8, 2007)

Let me rephrase my statement on your therapy dog situation...

Your website states that 70% of the pups you produce go into some kind of service program....yet later on, you announce that TWO pups from a June '03 litter went to LDFB....somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think two pups from what I would guess to be a decent sized litter (not sure on numbers) is 70%. So where did the other ones go? Not into service!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

The AKC calls before doing an inspection. 
The GRCA is not simply about showing.
If a breeder advertises on their website that all dogs have clearances before being bred, but do not, OR they are not done until AFTER the dogs have already been bred, the claims of clearances would not be true.
When a breeder advertises that dogs should be cleared before breeding, which cannot be done until two, but breeds dogs at 9 mos, or 11 mos, ar 16 mos, that is hypocritical, at best.
When a breeder advises that a good breeder would not make a breeding without having people on a waiting list, yet have several puppies available from several litters, that is hypocritical, at best.
If a breeder claims all puppies come with AKC papers, even limited registration papers, but they are suspended, that claim is not true. 
In one explanation, the breeder stated that they are using another registry. If so, that is the registry that should be advertised, not AKC. 
As distasteful as I might personally believe having literally dozens of litters a year is, it is their right. What I take issue with is making claims that are provable as untrue, such as health clearances, GRCA membership, affiliations with other organizations that make one appear to be more legitimate, etc.
As an aside, I don't necessarily believe that producing a litter strictly for companion animals is a bad thing. As long as all health clearances are in place, the dogs being bred do not have what would be considered disqualifying fauls based on the standard, and guaranteed good homes are waiting prior to the mating. It is naive to think that every puppy produced in a litter, even one bred with the purpose of showing, or other competition, field work, etc, is going to evaluate as being capable. Those who don't would be sold as wonderful, quality pets. And as I've stated before, I think that the job of being a well loved family pet is of the utmost importance and should NEVER be minimized.


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## GoldRocksMom (Feb 9, 2007)

*We are justifiably proud, on Feb.11,2003 GOLD ROCKS "TRIX" was the 12,295th Leader Dog to graduate from this special training school. On May 2,2003 GOLD ROCKS "PRINCESS GIRLY" was the 12,347th Leader Dog to graduate from this special training school. 
We wish to congratulate them and their service partners on their success. 
Leader Dogs for the blind has their littermate GOLD ROCKS HEIDI in their breeding program . 
Leader Dogs for the blind also has a Gold Rocks female born September 7,2001 "GOLD ROCKS SWEET" in their breeding program. We are proud of our girls and feel this is a very rewarding venue for our dogs. THANKS TO LEADER DOGS FOR THE BLIND FOR MAKING IT ALL POSSIBLE AND FOR THE WORK THEY DO EVERYDAY, THEIR CONTRIBUTION TO SOCIETY IS GREAT. 
We feel honored that we, thru and with our dogs, can contribute to such a winning, worthwhile organization. *


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

Kimberly,

In your other post, you stated "I wish someone on this forum lived in Michigan and was able to visit GoldRocks to see how obnoxious and blatantly untrue her lies are." I am in Michigan, not too far from you and would love to be the person to come meet you, visit with you and possibly clear all of this up. If this is a true and willing offer, please let me know and maybe I can help to get this matter cleared up. I am also a breeder and would be livid if someone was saying things about my dogs and my breeding practices if they were not true. I would also invite anyone who wanted to come meet me and my dogs AND see all of my paperwork, clearances, etc. to do so.

AND Pointgold - I do not know, nor have I ever met Kimberly. This is an offer only to try and clear things up and meet a fellow Golden Lover.

Becky


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

Okay I thought this ended last night. I guess not. So how about stopping it today.

Hooch


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I have alot to catch up on here but I am compelled to respond to one thought posted by Goldnsport before I go any further.



> You shouldn't be breeding unless your aim is to improve the breed - for example, to produce a dog for a specific purpose, like conformation, obedience, agility, tracking, hunting/field, search and rescue, etc...or serious pet-assisted therapy programs....Breeders who produce no more than "nice pets" are ruining our breed.


I don't agree with this at all. I am a "nice pet" golden retriever owner. My dog is not bred for show or conformation or field or rescue or for therapy or assistance. But she is a beautiful dog with a wonderful temperament. I'm not sure a "specific purpose" breeder would place one of their dogs with me. I'm just your average joe, I have no motivation for owinng a golden retriever beyond loving the "nice" golden retriever and wanting one of my very own. I don't believe Daisy has "bettered" the breed, but she certainly has not compromised the breed.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I wonder how the Leader Dogs for the Blind feel about having been named in a lawsuit brought on by a breeder who continues to use them in advertisement? (The charges against Leader Dogs were dropped.)


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## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

PointGold - I think you have more than made your point here. Time to move on.

Hooch


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Most of what you copy/pasted didn't really answer the actual questions I had asked... either that or I'm so dense as to have failed to make the connection. However I will try to answer some of the questions you did ask me...

Nancy Lu is a nice person who purchased her very first dog from a breeder who gave her assurances that essentially the 'paper work was in the mail' and her dogs had all certs. To make a very long sad story short and easier to take: Summer Lynn (her beloved puppy) had hip surgery resulting in one leg being paralyzed. There is much more sadness to her story if you search this forum or visit her blog. No, you were not the breeder but hopefully you do now understand why her name was brought up.

I'd actually spoken with you at length on the phone... it seems like almost an hour. I was the one who told you the theory from my vet about piggies and dogs being alike, where research showed that female piglets with males on either side in the tube turned out to be very dominate (alpha natured) because of the greater amount of testosterone exposure during critical brain development... I would think you might have remembered that part of our conversation... and you did openly invite me out to visit your kennels however I decided not to follow-up on your kind offer. And to answer your other question: there were essentially two reasons I didn't pursue your kennel, the first was I felt too many restrictions place upon my wishes to raise the puppy my way and using my vet, etc (though I admittedly did not force this issue as I had soooo many other breeders with which to choose from)... secondly (remember this is just about personal tastes) I loved your descriptions of temperament but wasn't so attracted to the 'look' of your pups and dogs. Please don't get me wrong here! your dogs are beautiful but Goldens do have different 'looks' to them and so this was a minor point of personal tastes... and I feel bad for even having to say that but you did ask and I feel the need to be honest with you.

The issues I brought up was not one of practices or personal breeding beliefs... I was more concerned about truth. I believe a breeder needs to be completely open and honest with their potential buyers, that's all. At least then a buyer can base their decision on a basis of knowing the full truth about background and probabilities. I'm searching your answers for the level of open truthfulness, whereas others might be more suspicious. So I gather you don't tell anyone the sire or dam is health cert if they in fact are not quite YET so ('in the mail').

I have to go now as my wife just got home but I will be back to this thread later to see what else has transpired...


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

*GOOD GOD... ENOUGH IS ENOUGH*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will say this.... with all this going on ... its a major turn off...... Points have been made on both sides.... let people judge for themselves........Looks like a mud slinging contest with a bunch of high school kids...... And the longer it goes on the more you look like a bunch of ASSES.


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## GoldRocksMom (Feb 9, 2007)

telsmith1 said:


> Kimberly,
> 
> In your other post, you stated "I wish someone on this forum lived in Michigan and was able to visit GoldRocks to see how obnoxious and blatantly untrue her lies are." I am in Michigan, not too far from you and would love to be the person to come meet you, visit with you and possibly clear all of this up. If this is a true and willing offer, please let me know and maybe I can help to get this matter cleared up. I am also a breeder and would be livid if someone was saying things about my dogs and my breeding practices if they were not true. I would also invite anyone who wanted to come meet me and my dogs AND see all of my paperwork, clearances, etc. to do so.
> 
> ...


*Becky, when would you like to come over ?*


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

Kimberly,

I will PM you and we can set up a time and date. I would rather not set a time and date on the forum.

Becky


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

telsmith1 said:


> Kimberly,
> 
> I will PM you and we can set up a time and date. I would rather not set a time and date on the forum.
> 
> Becky


Smart move Becky.. You will drug through the mud next..........


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

Maggies mom said:


> Smart move Becky.. You will drug through the mud next..........


I know it. That is why I rarely post anymore. But, I like to feel that I know what a good breeder is, so I may be able to help clear this up.


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

Jo Ellen said:


> I have alot to catch up on here but I am compelled to respond to one thought posted by Goldnsport before I go any further.
> 
> 
> I don't agree with this at all. I am a "nice pet" golden retriever owner. My dog is not bred for show or conformation or field or rescue or for therapy or assistance. But she is a beautiful dog with a wonderful temperament. I'm not sure a "specific purpose" breeder would place one of their dogs with me. I'm just your average joe, I have no motivation for owinng a golden retriever beyond loving the "nice" golden retriever and wanting one of my very own. I don't believe Daisy has "bettered" the breed, but she certainly has not compromised the breed.


Jo Ellen, I think we will all agree that any one litter *won't* turn out to be all show dogs, or all sporting dogs, or all service dogs. But, in striving to attain those goals, you do produce some very high quality pets, which are normally placed as such. Hopefully, but not always, that results in healthier and higher quality dogs. I don't believe that Goldnsport was in any way putting down pets. The goal is the important thing. IMHO, that goal should be the AKC standard. The AKC publishes that standard, in order to maintain some link to the purpose for which the breed was originally created. In addition, the GRCA publishes a set of standards which breeders use to achieve those goals. People who ignore those goals and standards do it at the detriment of the breed.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

telsmith1 said:


> Kimberly,
> 
> I will PM you and we can set up a time and date. I would rather not set a time and date on the forum.
> 
> Becky


Becky ..is it possible to do it* soon* , so this can end and we can get on with the nice forum we have and enjoy it again.....


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I got that, in one of Goldnsport's posts after the one I responded to. I suppose it's good to read through everything before I post


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## GoldRocksMom (Feb 9, 2007)

Maggies mom said:


> Smart move Becky.. You will drug through the mud next..........


I hope Becky is not next to be drug through the mud

This is not right, and anyone wishing to say anything more about my dogs or me had better decide to visit first
I have been dealing with Salvatore, not PointGold since 2003
and did not come on this forum for her and a few show breeders to decide to join a swear campaign

One thing everyone should remember is we are talking about
golden retrievers here and with their gentle nature and huge sense of honor and sterling character, if they were
people for an hour they would probably tell their owners they were moving, would not want to be around these piranhas


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

GoldRocksMom said:


> I hope Becky is not next to be drug through the mud
> 
> This is not right, and anyone wishing to say anything more about my dogs or me had better decide to visit first
> I have been dealing with Salvatore, not PointGold since 2003
> ...


I think you have every right to come on and defend yourself... BUT Point gold just wont let it go and it looks like goldnsport isnt going to either.....It gets real old after the same old threads are going on and on about the same thing


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

GoldRocksMom said:


> I hope Becky is not next to be drug through the mud
> 
> This is not right, and anyone wishing to say anything more about my dogs or me had better decide to visit first
> I have been dealing with Salvatore, not PointGold since 2003
> ...


I sent you a PM....


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

Mary....I love your new avatar!!! Is that Hootie?


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## Heart Of Gold (Dec 3, 2005)

*Hmmmmm.....*

Oh my glory! I just checked out the GoldRocks website. My big question: How do you find TIME to maintain such an updated, abundant website and at the same time manage all those LITTERS?????? I am absolutely amazed. Stunned beyond belief. Most of the reputable breeders I know hardly find time even with a few litters a _year_, much less a month! Granted, they're usually out there at conformation and agility shows, as well...always finding ways to better the breed, rather than just pumping out pets.

I was curious as to what people were referring to in the earlier posts re; AKC, etc. so I found the thread dated back in June:

Notice From AKC About Golden Retrievers - Golden Retriever Forum 


Hey, I have nothing against breeding and allowing someone to experience the joy of a companion/pet. I love the looks of most of your darling pups and gorgeous adults. However, the goal for a breeder is to breed for him or herself FIRST. And, yes, most of the time the puppies are pet quality and maybe only one or two...or _none_ will be kept back for show/breeding. On the other hand, a good breeder doesn't continue to breed numerous litters in a month or year just to find that "perfect pup" or to supply numerous homes with PETS! :nono: This makes me think that someone who does this is in it for more than just benevolence. 

But, then I don't know you and for all I know, you might produce the healthiest, long-lived Goldens around. But, I'm still stumped how you actually CARE for all of them and keep your very thorough website up????


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

gold'nchocolate said:


> Mary....I love your new avatar!!! Is that Hootie?


Cathy, THANKS... It's Maggie..it was one of the pictures from a photo shoot she did for Purina... a week or 2 ago.... there is a thread with the rest of the pictures if you would like to look at them.....


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Maggies mom said:


> *GOOD GOD... ENOUGH IS ENOUGH*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will say this.... with all this going on ... its a major turn off...... Points have been made on both sides.... let people judge for themselves........Looks like a mud slinging contest with a bunch of high school kids...... And the longer it goes on the more you look like a bunch of ASSES.


 
~~~~~~Bravo!~~~~~~


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

OK... This has gone on long enough. Goldrocks, please feel free to start a new thread if you like.


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