# Training loose leash walking with an non-food motivated puppy?



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

Sunny is 14 weeks old, such a smart kid, but in distracting environments like the backyard, outdoors and puppy school, he does not care about food. Even if he's really hungry, he'd rather explore and bark at other dogs. 

Yesterday, my boyfriend and I took him for a short walk for the first time. I didn't expect him to do well, which he didn't. We stopped every time he charged off, choking himself, and would stand there until he either sat down or came back to us. We did try to call him back every time and treat him, but I found it quite difficult to hold the leash and treat him fast enough while he was at my side (or close enough). He didn't care to come back for treats anyway, he was more interested in picking up every leave he saw. 

After about 15 minutes, he got pretty tired from choking himself. We turned back and I ended up jogging a little to keep the leash loose every now and then. He was still ahead of me, but I accepted it as long as the leash was slack. Probably not a good idea to continue doing that! Prior to this, we practised heeling inside the house by initially holding treats in front of his nose while he's by my side, and eventually treating every few steps, to every few seconds. Without so many distractions, he did a lot better. But once outside, it's a whole different story. Even our backyard which he explores at least 10 times a day is too interesting while I'm trying to train. He'd rather play tug with the leash, even after I soak it with bitter apple!

We've already tried Zak George's method of turning back when the pulling occurs so the dog can't move forward/get to where they want to go. Problem is Sunny doesn't care which direction we go, he'll go 360! 
I don't expect much from him because I have been slack with training him consistently indoors, but any different tips on how to train loose leash without treats/toys would be great!

Note: 
- I shouldn't walk him outside anymore until he's fully vaccinated in 4 weeks, so we'll be practising on the lawn in front of my house only. 
- I'd like to get a harness, which will probably take at least 10 minutes to get on. :doh:

Thank you!


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## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

Also, suggestions for no-pull harnesses? 
I'd like to get the Easy Walk harness which seems more available in Australia, but it doesn't seem so popular on GRF..


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Keep the leash very short. When he starts pulling stop and make him sit before you keep going. Then you start walking. When he pulls you stop again and make him sit.


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## Doug (Jul 17, 2010)

IMHO he is still way too young to walk on a loose leash, it will only increase your frustration.
Things are way too exciting right now  

Yes go for an Easy Walker harness. You can also buy padding to put under the arm pits if you are concerned about rubbing. The front ring harness will make a significant difference.

... and yes it does take a little bit of time to work out how it goes on at first


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## SwimDog (Sep 28, 2014)

Dogs can escape from the easy walk. If you clip the leash to the harness -and- collar they are not able to do so. The fit is not as good as some of the other products ("perfect fit" or "balance harness").

I would personally concentrate on teaching a puppy to like food and toys - that will give you more power for training long term and creating the associations wanted. If my dogs are too excited to accept food then I don't let them do other things.

Some tips
- get crazy interesting foods 
- working for meals will increase interest in food
- work on behaviors in the house - add in distractions when indoors
- work on walking in your yard, add in distractions.
- teach 'turn to you for attention' when in other places (even just sitting in the car and watching people out a window). 
- Do lots and lots of playing

It's definitely possible to teach without food/toys - either using play and interaction as a reward or using corrections. But long term I'd prefer to teach my dog to eat and work everywhere.

My puppy is 17 weeks and not perfect at walking - but getting measurably better each session. We stay in the same area until he is eager and demanding more attention/play from me and then we move forward.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

It is tough with a dog who is not food-motivated-- so I would say to keep trying to find a food that maybe, maybe, MAYBE will motivate him. But, whatever you do, don't let the leash pulling continue. As in, don't plan to take more than 4 steps on a walk (total) if Sunny is pulling. Go as slowly as needed so that bad habits are not ingrained, so keep trying to increase distractions as slowly as possible. If you need to stick to your backyard to get it right, stick to it! Do not rush this!

My dog is 15 weeks tomorrow, and we have been walking for a few weeks because parvo is not an issue here. AND, we started off with the snow so there were few distractions at that time (no blowing leaves, no squirrels, few people, no grass, etc.). That made it easier-- just the "benefit" of living in horrible weather, haha! (And that is the only one!)

What we did was to practice indoors with "find it." All "find it" means is, throw a bit of food on the ground where you want your dog to walk and say, "find it!". I did this very frequently initially-- constant use of Cheerios. He quickly learned to walk right by me. Then we used the clicker. The clicker always signals him to turn his head (to find the treat I will give him). So, I would walk and click him to turn to look. Then, when he would turn his head on his own, he got a click. Next, when he turned his head and gave me EYE contact, he got a click. I give him treats from the hand on the side I want him to walk, so that he associates that side with the right place to walk.

When we took our walk outside, I did the same thing. I played "find it" (and I know this is not good to do where you are but we had snow), then brought the clicker. When we would first take walks, I was clicking every 2 seconds, then three, then I started to vary the length. If he ever left something on his own, he would get a click.

I would click when he got to the end of the leash so he'd turn back to look at me. He started understanding that the tug he felt (that he did) meant, turn back and get a treat. But, I wanted no tug at all!

Enter the harness--- this has been even better. While loose-leash walking was going well with the collar, I felt pretty dependent on treats and did not like the choking when meeting dogs. The harness has made his walking just about perfect. He is even greeting other dogs nicely now, given his age. When I stop to talk to someone, he will now sit or lie down (and I treat him--- no clicking-- for that calm behavior). 

The harness we have isn't perfectly sized to allow for his growth (a little big), so we clip it to his collar. It has the front ring. The downside is that it can bother him (he will scratch at it) on the beginning of walks, but then seem to forget or not care. I will try a different brand when we go to the next size.

I used the Kikopup video and some books for ideas.

ETA: I always did his first walk early in the morning, and alone, since I think training walks are much easier to be done without someone with you, so that you can focus solely on the dog, and not another person (at least in my case). I would feed him his "breakfast" (via kibble) during the course of the morning walk. So, maybe try it out at a time of day when Sunny is hungry and when there won't be many people, and maybe sans your boyfriend or anyone for now. We have progressed to being able to go out on walks (in my neighborhood) with company and at any time-- but it took a few weeks for me to be comfortable with that, and the harness. I am not sure if he will stay like this during the teenage period, though. He may regress.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

One more idea-- since he plays with the leash, you can try getting him to heel indoors without the leash, then do it outside without the leash in a fenced-in area.

The other idea is to carry a toy, and when he starts going for the leash, put the toy in his mouth instead.


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## EChoe88 (Jun 1, 2014)

Emily is almost 5 months old now and walks horrible on a collar/leash. We have her in a pseudo Easy-Walk harness now. I have a Freedom harness for her that she needs to grow into. 

As far as the training goes. Start inside. There are less distractions and he'll be more motivated by food inside. I practiced loose leash walking around our kitchen island. I would hold a piece of food down by left knee, close to her nose, and have her follow it, clicking and treating for her staying by my knee. I gradually moved my hand up from my knee until I was standing up straight and treated intermittently. If you want to, you could also train him to sit by your side whenever you stop. Just stop walking, lead him to your left/right side, have him sit, then click and treat. Emily walks great inside now. I've recently begun moving outside to our back patio and working with her there. Same process with treat by knee, click, etc. It's all about baby steps and repetition.


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## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

I will be replying to all your comments soon, but just a keep update: 

Yesterday we started loose-leash walking practise in the house again. He picked it up straight away and did wonderfully! I was treating him every few steps, then eventually from one end of the house to the other. He stayed right by my side and kept looking up at me for direction (actually for food but let's just pretend). We practised 3 times, each for a few minutes, so he doesn't get bored. The area is quite small. I'll continue to do this for a few days then see how we go in our backyard!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Loose leash walking is one of the most difficult skills for our dogs to learn, patience, practice and reward, they soon get the hang of it. The world is an exciting place and they instinctively want to see, smell, and interact with a great deal of it causing them to get distracted and focused on where they want to be. Teaching your dog to make eye contact with you and highly rewarding him for 'checking in' (offered eye contact) and looking to you when you say his name, can help to prevent or eliminate a lot of the leash pulling behavior. Perhaps this article will be helpful to you.

http://www.clickertraining.com/files/auto-eye-contact.pdf


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## Test-ok (Jan 15, 2015)

keep the leash short and lose so he stays just a little behind you. Don't let him walk you. look forward and move he will follow..no need to watch him, he'll be at the end of that leash and the ground isn't going anywhere.


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## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

SwimDog said:


> Dogs can escape from the easy walk. If you clip the leash to the harness -and- collar they are not able to do so. The fit is not as good as some of the other products ("perfect fit" or "balance harness").
> 
> I would personally concentrate on teaching a puppy to like food and toys - that will give you more power for training long term and creating the associations wanted. If my dogs are too excited to accept food then I don't let them do other things.
> 
> ...


He is food motivated at home, he'd do anything even for kibble! At puppy school and outside, I use chicken and hot dog pieces. They're his favourite and I can't think of anything else which is higher value? Maybe some steak bits? 
He loves his meals and I take a portion out of each meal for training, so sometimes it's half eaten in a bowl, and half used as treats. On some days he walks wonderfully on a leash around the house AND in the backyard, always looking at me (for food). But as soon as I open the gate he goes crazy, even when there's no people/dogs walking around. 
I'll continue to just do some leash walking around the house and backyard until it's almost perfect. We've got about 2-3 weeks until he's fully vaccinated and we can go for walks everyday. He just does horribly in new environments so perhaps constantly working with him outside everyday will desensitise the excitement a bit.. 

Thank you for the harness recommendations. I'll see if they're available in Australia


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Casual loose leash walking can still be a challenge for Bella at times, and she'll be 3 in May. Fortunately, I'm able to walk pretty fast. LOL.


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## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

Anele said:


> It is tough with a dog who is not food-motivated-- so I would say to keep trying to find a food that maybe, maybe, MAYBE will motivate him. But, whatever you do, don't let the leash pulling continue. As in, don't plan to take more than 4 steps on a walk (total) if Sunny is pulling. Go as slowly as needed so that bad habits are not ingrained, so keep trying to increase distractions as slowly as possible. If you need to stick to your backyard to get it right, stick to it! Do not rush this!


I tend not to go any further than around 4 steps if he's pulling on walks. We have only been on 2 though, and I probably won't take him out until he's fully vaccinated in 2-3 weeks. For now we'll stick to inside and the backyard, which he's actually been doing pretty good in! Sometimes perfectly! But just like some tricks, he'll do them easily at home, but outside, he goes completely mental. It's like, no matter how much we train and how focused he is, all of that goes out the window when we're in a distracting environment. 



> Then we used the clicker. The clicker always signals him to turn his head (to find the treat I will give him). So, I would walk and click him to turn to look. Then, when he would turn his head on his own, he got a click. Next, when he turned his head and gave me EYE contact, he got a click. I give him treats from the hand on the side I want him to walk, so that he associates that side with the right place to walk.
> 
> I would click when he got to the end of the leash so he'd turn back to look at me. He started understanding that the tug he felt (that he did) meant, turn back and get a treat. But, I wanted no tug at all!


I would love to try this! Holding onto a leash, plus grabbing treats out of my bag and holding a clicker seems like a bit of a juggle though. Will give it a go! I'd have to be clicking literally every second because he's by my side, then in a blink of an eye he's on the end of the leash pulling... :doh:

As for walks in the morning using his breakfast, I can almost guarantee he will still pull because he'd rather starve than miss an opportunity to chase and run anywhere that's not at home! Another option is to try when he's REALLY tired. Even then, he'd perk up and go crazy. Argh. 

What kind of harness do you use? I think I read somewhere you use the Easy Walk harness? I'll be measuring Sunny's girth etc., but just for an idea, which size do you use (since our pups are around the same age)?

Thank you!!


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## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

Charliethree said:


> Loose leash walking is one of the most difficult skills for our dogs to learn, patience, practice and reward, they soon get the hang of it. The world is an exciting place and they instinctively want to see, smell, and interact with a great deal of it causing them to get distracted and focused on where they want to be. Teaching your dog to make eye contact with you and highly rewarding him for 'checking in' (offered eye contact) and looking to you when you say his name, can help to prevent or eliminate a lot of the leash pulling behavior. Perhaps this article will be helpful to you.
> 
> http://www.clickertraining.com/files/auto-eye-contact.pdf



A very thorough article. Thank you for sharing!! The weird thing is, Sunny doesn't like to make direct eye contact with me. He will once in a while, but most of the time the direction of his gaze is a little drifted off to the side. Is this normal? I know direct eye contact might be confrontational to dogs but I dunno, I think he's just a little aloof sometimes. I've tried the basic method of holding a treat near my eye, and click treating when he looks at me (although to be honest he's still looking at the treat). I add the cue "watch me" and do it over and over again until I try to take the lure away and just point at my eye. An easy command, but it's something he's struggling with. I might have to try some of the methods in that article.


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## milobanana (Mar 17, 2015)

momo_ said:


> He is food motivated at home, he'd do anything even for kibble! At puppy school and outside, I use chicken and hot dog pieces. They're his favourite and I can't think of anything else which is higher value? Maybe some steak bits?
> He loves his meals and I take a portion out of each meal for training, so sometimes it's half eaten in a bowl, and half used as treats. On some days he walks wonderfully on a leash around the house AND in the backyard, always looking at me (for food). But as soon as I open the gate he goes crazy, even when there's no people/dogs walking around.
> I'll continue to just do some leash walking around the house and backyard until it's almost perfect. We've got about 2-3 weeks until he's fully vaccinated and we can go for walks everyday. He just does horribly in new environments so perhaps constantly working with him outside everyday will desensitise the excitement a bit..
> 
> Thank you for the harness recommendations. I'll see if they're available in Australia


Definitely try the Easy-Walk -- it helps a lot! Two other things:

1) Maybe an extremely smelly treat would be harder for him to ignore? My pup will do just about anything when I'm carrying a can of cat food around. It's kind of messy, but maybe a drastic measure like that for a couple of walks will get him off on the right food and then you can eventually go back to the chicken and steak bits. 

2) In combination with that, for the time being I'd only try to take him out on a walk after a really good play session in the backyard. Definitely helps to get the edge off that puppy energy before expecting any sort of focus! 

Good luck!


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