# "lunging" - pinch collar?



## spruce (Mar 13, 2008)

my sweet 17 m/o Bridger doesn't seem so sweet sometimes.

He will "lunge" at other dogs (sometimes bikes) on the trail. This isn't constant, but enough that I'm very uncomfortable. He's fine if he gets to meet the dog and he walks great with me.

I'm thinking pinch collar as a training tool for this (hate seeing my sweetheart wearing one)

Opinions???


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I think focusing on this as a training rather than an equipment issue would probably help. Working on interrupting his focus on the bike and redirecting it to you will help avoid the problem in the first place. A properly used pinch collar can be part of correcting and redirecting the dog, but it has to be done with a very trained human holding the leash. If you're going to add a prong/pinch collar, make sure you also go to training together to learn how to use it very carefully.


----------



## Nikki Boy (Mar 14, 2009)

Someone in this forum mentioned the Premiere Gentle Leader Harness - http://www.amazon.com/Premier-Gentl...RFAU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1237154312&sr=8-1

I am getting one and giving it a shot will let you know how it goes. I have heard good and bad on pinch collars - I really don't like them myself. Don't seem to work to stop them just makes them breathing heavy and stops them because they are choking. Just my opinion.


----------



## spruce (Mar 13, 2008)

If I see a bike coming I make the dog(s) sit, it's bikes we don't see coming from behind that excite him. I do redirect him with good treats if we need to pass a dog, but it doesn't always work. 

so, I don't just get a collar a petsmart & go,huh? I think there's a training facility where I could get a private lesson - think I could learn in l/2 hour?


----------



## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

What kind of treats are you using? Perhaps use a higher reward treat.

Yeah, be sure to go a training session to learn how to properly use one. 1/2 hour of dedicated time should be plenty of time


----------



## spruce (Mar 13, 2008)

Nikki Boy said:


> Someone in this forum mentioned the Premiere Gentle Leader Harness - http://www.amazon.com/Premier-Gentl...RFAU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1237154312&sr=8-1
> .


I just bought 2 (l for 8 y/o lab Sadie who tugs, l for Bridger's "lunging) - haven't had instances yet to judge how it controls Bridger.

The "trainer" (looked/acted about 8) at Petsmart said she didn't like these for big dogs & it would do no good for lunging --- but I was set on trying it. Bridger did get "fitted" for his


----------



## Nikki Boy (Mar 14, 2009)

I also took a class for lunging and it helped a bit - it was a special class for lungers. Nick was actually the sweetest in the group by far - he was lunging to say "hi how ya' doing" while I am not so sure of the other dogs motives. Trainer had me walk looking straight ahead and told me not worry so much. Took us to place with lots of distractions and activity. It really helped the lunging he has backed tracked a bit on dogs but not on people or bikes. When I see another dog we either walk wide or else I have him sit and stand directly in front of him. If he sits calmly I praise him.


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

You need to be very careful about using a physical correction in the presence of the trigger (other dogs). If often backfires and makes the behavior worse b/c many dogs start to associate the correction with the other dog and not their lunging behavior. Over time, to the dog, other dogs = correction and then they react even more when they see them.

Best bet is to teach your dog that other dogs = you become a dispenser of great treats. What constitutes "great treat" is your dog's opinion, not yours, so you may need to experiment a bit. Social distance also comes into play - meaning, you may need to back up a bit from the "other dog" in order to get your dog into a state where he'll be able to eat.

If you need physical help controlling the dog, try a Gentle Leader or Halti. Much safer behaviorally than a prong collar, in my experience and opinion.


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Nikki Boy said:


> I have heard good and bad on pinch collars - I really don't like them myself. Don't seem to work to stop them just makes them breathing heavy and stops them because they are choking. Just my opinion.


I don't use pinch collars myself, but if the dog is hauling on it and getting choked, the handler is using it improperly. The correct use of a prong collar is to deliver a "pop" correction in order to interrupt an unwanted behavior, not to make pulling more painful so the dog stops. The same thing goes for choke collars.


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> You need to be very careful about using a physical correction in the presence of the trigger (other dogs). If often backfires and makes the behavior worse b/c many dogs start to associate the correction with the other dog and not their lunging behavior. Over time, to the dog, other dogs = correction and then they react even more when they see them.
> 
> Best bet is to teach your dog that other dogs = you become a dispenser of great treats. What constitutes "great treat" is your dog's opinion, not yours, so you may need to experiment a bit. Social distance also comes into play - meaning, you may need to back up a bit from the "other dog" in order to get your dog into a state where he'll be able to eat.
> 
> If you need physical help controlling the dog, try a Gentle Leader or Halti. Much safer behaviorally than a prong collar, in my experience and opinion.


Very well said, Stephanie. I agree wholeheartedly with everything you've said.


----------



## spruce (Mar 13, 2008)

ok - no pinch collar right now. I do distraction treats as far from other dogs as possible. Have very special treats used only for this. I'll see how control works with the EasyWalk harness. He did great sitting yesterday when horses went by (that scared me)

do you think I'm wrong having him sit when bikes go by? that when a bike catches him unaware (from behind) he's frightened?


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

spruce said:


> ok - no pinch collar right now. I do distraction treats as far from other dogs as possible. Have very special treats used only for this. I'll see how control works with the EasyWalk harness. He did great sitting yesterday when horses went by (that scared me)
> 
> do you think I'm wrong having him sit when bikes go by? that when a bike catches him unaware (from behind) he's frightened?


Not at all. Having him direct his attention to you is calming. If you want him to be more OK with bikes from behind, try adding a high value treat when you have him sit for bikes coming from the front. It may help him learn that bikes are kinda fun because they result in yummies.


----------



## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

We used a prong collar with Tinkerbell for a while. it worked great for us. I think she got "popped" a total of 4 times. Twice when we were being trained on how to use it and 2 more times when we were out walking. I liked that it kept her from choking and gasping unlike a regular collar.

Bu it is not for every dog or every owner.


----------



## Bogart'sMom (Sep 16, 2005)

Hi,
I train at All Breed rescue and training here in Colorado Springs and they have a lot of experience with reactive dogs. They even have a reactive dog class. The dogs never ever wear pinch collars or choke chains. All dogs are either on Flatcollars, headcollars, these walkingharnesses or regular harnesses. You don't want your dog to associate the pain for the pinch collar with the dog that she/he wants to go at. I would sugest just checking for for a good obedience school that offers positive reenforcment classes. All of the trainers are members of the APDT (Association of Pet dog Trainer). I hope you find the right solution for your problem.
All the best,


----------



## spruce (Mar 13, 2008)

reporting that the Gentle Leader EasyWalk Harness is working perfect!!! 

the last few weeks the trail has been pretty empty except for us any-weather walkers, so there hasn't been oppotunities to test it - until today when the lack of rain brought out bikes/dogs/runners. 

I'm able to control him great when going other dogs walk/run by - - feel he needs "exposure" to strange dogs on his trail & with this harness my confidence is up/anxiety down.


----------

