# Getting a Breeder to Sell You a Puppy



## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Here's a sad fact: There are far more puppy buyers than there are well-bred puppies. So you're in a ruthless competition to get a good, healthy puppy. It shouldn't be that way, but it is. For our last litter of 9 puppies, we had 134 potential buyers who filled out puppy questionnaires to get on our list. So, only 6.71% of those who seriously wanted a puppy from our Ace x Ziva litter had any chance of getting one. 

Assuming this same percentage holds true for ethical breeders overall, most people stand very little chance of getting a well-bred puppy. So how can you up your chances of being among the 6-7% of applicants who will actually get a well-bred puppy from a reputable breeder?

A short interlude here to post shameless brag photos of our puppy from that Ace x Ziva litter. This is Deuce, Esquire's Two Aces Up My Sleeve BPISS. He is 7 months old here 

















And here is his pedigree: Pedigree: Esquire's Two Aces Up My Sleeve BPISS. We now return you to your regular post, already in progress.

I can't speak for all breeders. But here is what we like to see:

1. Initial Contact. You never get a second chance to make a good first impression. In the initial contact we want to see more than just "Do you have puppies, and how much are they?" We want to know who you are. Why are you looking for a puppy? What are you going to do with this puppy? Have you had Goldens/dogs before? What is your living situation like? And bonus points for giving us a picture of what the puppy's life would be like. Don't write a manifesto, keep it short but informative. Some breeders have this ego thing where they want to know why you chose them, what you know about their dogs, why his/her dogs are just what you are looking for. I think this is BS. Most puppy buyers are just looking for a healthy pet and are desperately searching for a good breeder who will sell them one, and don't have much knowledge beyond that.

2. The Puppy Questionnaire. We look for full explanations and narratives, not just one- or two-word answers. The questionnaire is the tool that gives us the best picture of who you are. This is your opportunity to sell yourself. We breeders love our puppies. We want to know how much you will love him/her too, and we want to see what a great life this puppy will have. Sell your vision, but BE TRUTHFUL. We can smell a lie a mile off, and we can tell who is telling us what they think we want to hear. Imperfections are fine, just be candid. If we think you are being even the slightest bit deceptive or guarded, you get crossed off at this point.

3. Investigation. We check you out. We call references. We Google Earth your house and spend a lot of time investigating what your home and neighborhood are like. We search your social media accounts. We search public records. And if you are local, we might drive by your house, or even ask you if we can do a home visit. We also encourage puppy buyers who make it this far to visit us.

4. Visiting Us, Visiting You. If you get a home invitation from us, we are seriously considering you. And we watch you like a hawk. How do you act around our dogs? How do you interact with them? If I have doubts about you, I might ask to visit your house, and I will bring my most unruly dog over and let him/her loose in your house to see how you deal with it. Is your wife concerned with hair and dirt? Do you daintily give the dog a perfunctory pat on the head, or do you get down on the floor and roll around with him? Not all breeders are like this. When I suggested that I like to see people drop to the ground and get to know my dogs right away, one breeder said that would cross you off his list, as he's the person and you'd better pay attention to him. Whatever. Personally, I want to see how you deal with the dogs, not me. You're not taking me home to live with you my whole life. You're taking a puppy. I want to see how you deal with that. And in some respect, most other breeders want to see that, too.

5. Puppy Visits If you get invited over to see the puppies, you're on the list to get one. You can still get bumped off, but you're a presumptive buyer. And you better believe we're all over you like Batman, ready to intervene and toss you out at a split second. Those who have been over know that we put them through a rigorous hygiene protocol to protect the puppies. How you deal with this tells us a lot about what kind of puppy owner you will be. And if we let you in the puppy pen, how you interact with the puppies is going to be the final test. You pass, you get a puppy. You don't, and I don't care how otherwise ideal you appear to be, no puppy for you!

Note that nowhere in this is a list of specific criteria. No rigid requirements regarding age, work situation, fenced yard, children, etc. It's much more about the people and the life the dog will have. In our last litter we sold a puppy to a young gay couple who live in a big city and have no fenced yard. But we are thrilled with this. The puppy goes to work with them every day, all day, at Google, which has a great pet policy. The dog is their constant companion and has a wonderful life. This is much more important to us than a fenced yard, since many puppies are just dumped out in yards and left there for 8 hours or longer each day.

We like initial contacts by email, and we follow up with phone calls. Other breeders prefer a phone call first, and are unlikely to read or respond to emails. Take a mixed approach, doing both, in order to maximize your chances of serious consideration. Squeaky wheels get the grease, so make more than one contact, and the farther along in the process you go, the more contact is welcome. If you're making too many contacts before we even have puppies, you can come off as a pest. Try to find a balance, and read the breeder. Most breeders love enthusiasm from potential puppy buyers, but also don't want a lot of bother from strangers when puppies aren't even on the ground. A couple contacts at first, then a puppy questionnaire, then maybe an occasional "checking in" contact until the breeder knows that the breeding has taken and there will be puppies. And when puppies are on the ground, the more interest you show, the better, if you've made it that far. But again, don't be a pest. We put up a puppy cam so that potential buyers can see the puppies every day, and we like it when we get quick little emails letting us know that the buyers are watching.

Be willing to be educated! I don't care how long you've had dogs, we know more about this than you do. And our only consideration in trying to teach you is making sure that the life we entrust to you is a stellar one.

Look at it from our perspective. This last Ace x Ziva litter is one we researched and waited for for TWO YEARS before we could actually do the breeding. We spent countless nights digging into pedigrees, clearances, health issues, temperament, structure, longevity, cause of death, and a bunch of other things, for a hundred or so relatives of every stud we considered. And we made sure that our bitch was healthy, and had all her clearances, and we spent countless time and thousands of dollars showing her to her grand championship and other achievements, and matching her to just the right stud. The breeding cost thousands, and took a great deal of time, going to the vet every other day for a while, and getting her bred twice. Then waiting to see if it took. Doing an ultrasound. Monitoring the dam's health. Preparing the whelping room for whelp and the 8-9 weeks after whelp. We birthed the puppies. In this last litter we were up all night long on Thanksgiving weekend, and ended up rushing to the vet at 3:00 a.m. for an emergency c-section when a puppy got stuck (and we lost that puppy). After whelp, we were with the litter 24/7, sleeping next to them and monitoring them through the nights. We had one puppy we had to tube feed (stick a tube down into its stomach to deliver food) every two hours, all day and night, for a while. And as the puppies developed, we did early sensory work before their eyes were even open, provided adventure boxes and new experiences every day, and socialized them in different ways, every day. They were weaned onto gruel and then onto solid food. We gave them their first baths and their first vaccinations. They all went back and forth to the vet multiple times. And in this last litter, the dam had a potassium crash and we almost lost her, with only another 3am run to the emergency vet saving her. 

I tell you all this to tell you this: 

We care about these puppies so much, and have worked so hard on them, that we won't send them to homes that we have any doubts about whatsoever. It's not about the money, and if it's about the money for you, you don't get a puppy. You get a puppy if you demonstrate to us that you'll desperately love and care for that puppy its entire life, give him a fantastic and fulfilling adventure his whole life long, and finally cradle him in your arms and comfort him as he takes his last breath. This is what you sign up for. This is what breeders look for. You show us you're going to be that person, you'll get a puppy. Otherwise, not.

Sorry to be so long-winded.

Post your experiences below. Every experience is different. Every buyer and every breeder are different. Let us know what your experiences were like, whether or not they resulted in a puppy. What, you didn't even get a return email from the breeder? Tell us what you sent them, what you said. Had a great experience? Tell us what got you there.


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

This is a very useful post so thanks for taking the time to do it. I've posted this before but my initial contact with Rukie's breeder could be the poster child for what not to do. Do you have puppies? How much are they? I had just found the forum while looking for breeders and all I knew then was they should have hip clearances and something about heart or eyes. Luckily for me, aside from being ignorant about approaching a breeder, we are a great puppy and dog home and the breeder was willing to overlook the lack of correctness in my inquiry. We had a followup phone discussion (by then I had gotten a ton of education from the forum and could talk intelligently about her dog's OFA results) and I am so glad that I passed. I had raised two Goldens from puppyhood through death at 12 years of age each and they were a family member just like the humans. The first one we got from a humane society at 3 months old and the second from an ad in the paper so I had never had to work through the process. Plus this was back in 1987 and 2000.

Anyway, I know lots of people will find this helpful so thanks again.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

I started my search almost exactly a year ago. I read through the So Cal breeder list here and I sent an email to about 5 different breeders from that list, and 2 breeders from other regions. I spent about a week drafting my email, revising, editing, etc. And because I had what I consider(ed) a well thought out and well rounded introduction, I used it for each of my contacts (except for the one who wanted a puppy questionnaire only). 

My email goes as follows: 


> Hello!
> 
> My name is [redacted]. My husband and I are putting feelers out for possible puppies. We just lost our heart dog to disseminated histiocytic sarcoma on the 13th. We're NOT ready to purchase right now but I want to reach out and get to know potential breeders so we can find the perfect breeder and puppy for us.
> 
> ...


That email got us 1 response from an out of state breeder who told me to focus on breeders closer to me. Zero response from breeders close to me. I followed up a couple times sporadically but mostly pushed it to the way side since we weren't ready ready to bring a puppy home. My intention with the above was to find a BREEDER and wait for a litter from that breeder. I don't mind a wait. 

The interaction that got me my puppy was way less involved. I saw a friend (who happens to be a breeder) post pictures of their dogs and something struck a chord in me and I IM'ed them "Do you have any plans for [bitch] this year?" 

And that's what started a 5 month journey to us bringing a puppy home this coming weekend. The conversations I've had with my breeder have been amazing and informative and encouraging and helpful. We've gone over so many topics, between goals, desires, questions, conformation, structure, clearances, bitch questions, sire questions, weight questions, hundreds of photos, and many more but this is off the top of my head. I think our breeder has invested over 100 hours in the last 5 months with me alone. 

I seriously hope no one google earthed my home address. That kinda creeps me out. Kinda like why do addresses get listed in show programs? Why do people need to know where handlers/breeders live?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Two of the things that I believe depresses puppy buyers and consequentially (is that even a word) affects whether they get a puppy or not with a breeder....

Knowing when to ask....
And being ready (to pay deposits, to get a puppy, etc).

There's a lot of people out there looking for nice puppies and a lot of them are just bombarding breeders with requests either when the breeders have a full waiting list for 1-2 litters out, or when the breeders have no plans to produce a litter for another year.

So people are asking breeders for puppies when there are absolutely none available.

And then when they happen to ask at the right time or somebody is helping them out and grabs them by the collar and tells them who to call RIGHT NOW, they are either unprepared for the cost of puppies right now or who knows why some people get cold feet.

I have a friend who (I think) falls into that second category.....  I think???? She was desperate for a puppy. I got her toe in the door with a breeder with a very nice litter and who had a puppy available due to somebody backing out because timing didn't work out. This breeder does not ever advertise her litters. She doesn't have to. In this case, if I didn't get this friend's toe inside the door and asked the breeder to wait for her, there was no chance of her getting a puppy from this litter. 

Fast forward a couple days, I heard back from the breeder that she had spoken to the friend and everything was lined up and she was invited to come see the puppies. I have no idea what happened whether she got sticker shock or cold feet, but she never visited. And I've had the toughest time getting her on the phone which tells me she's probably trying to avoid talking about it. Which might mean sticker shock was the problem or the rest of the family (her husband) was unprepared to get a puppy sooner vs later. Or she might be out of town. I have no idea, but the sad thing is that she's not going to get a puppy from this litter and that puppy is easily going to somebody else.

Other note that comes to mind as well besides the two above.... a lot of breeders are "old-fashioned" and or very busy. They want to see people in person and talk to them on the phone. Emails piling up might never get answered or read.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Thank you for posting @DanaRuns ! 

It was very hard to get a breeder to respond to us when we were looking for a puppy. The first one responded, but rejected us because she is a field line breeder and we were not a competition/hunting home. I also didn't know as much about the difference between field breeders and conformation breeders at the time either, and in hindsight, I'm thankful she said no. The second breeder I called and left voicemails, emailed (twice), and finally Facebook messaged and never got a response. Turned out that she preferred text messages for initial contact, and I didn't know at the time that she is also one of the top handlers in the breed and travels all over the place. She did eventually message me back on Facebook about two years later. LOL I called and emailed a 3rd breeder and never got a response. The 4th one, I called and she answered the phone, but didn't take reservations before puppies are the ground. I finally gave up on breeders in Texas and decided to look in my home state. 

I called my breeder for the initial contact and she actually answered the phone! If you're counting, this was the 5th Golden breeder I attempted to contact. I was so excited and shocked that she answered the phone I almost forgot to speak! But, I told her that we had been searching for a breeder for awhile now, why we wanted a Golden, that we lived in apartment but are active, which litter we were interested in (she had them listed on her website at the time), etc. She asked if I had emailed her first and I said no because I hadn't been getting responses to email. I told her about the Pembroke Welsh Corgi I'd had as a teenager and growing up around working farm dogs. I told her that we had been waiting for the past 3 years for the right living situation before starting our puppy search (which meant moving so that we didn't have a commute from the suburbs so that the pup wouldn't be alone for 11-12 hours/day). I also told her that we are both engineers. I'm sure there was lots more to the conversation that I just don't remember since it was 3 years ago. 

The phone call went well and she asked me to follow up with an email. This is what it said (edited for privacy): 

"Hey [breeder name], 

Thank you so much for taking my call earlier. My husband and I have been wanting to get a Golden Retriever for quite awhile now and I'm very excited about the [litter name] litter. 

A little more about us: We're both [age] and love to be outside riding bikes, playing frisbee, going on walks, hiking, etc. We live in an apartment, but plan on buying a house within the next couple of years. My husband's office is a 5-minute walk from home and my office is a 10-minute drive from home, so we can both come home for lunch. 

We're looking for an energetic, loving dog with lots of personality as a family companion. Neither of us has ever had a Golden before, but we've done lots of research and know that a Golden will be the perfect first family dog for us. 

If you need to know anything else about us, just ask! I can be reached at this email address or by phone at [phone number] anytime. Looking forward to hearing from you!

Thanks again, 

Maegan"

My other initial contact emails had been similar, but lacked lifestyle detail. I see now that I should have added the same amount of detail about lifestyle, if not more. I never asked about price or said that I wanted a puppy the next day. I usually said that we were willing to wait, that I wanted to tell them more about us on the phone (I really just wanted an organic get-to-know-you type of conversation), asked how to get on a waitlist, etc. but still never got a response from the others. The one that didn't take deposits or applications until the puppies were born didn't have a litter for almost two years after I called her. This is a classic "I wish I knew then what I know now" situation. LOL


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## CoopersMom16 (Dec 29, 2016)

Rescue groups are just as stringent, often even worse. And this is why back yard breeders and puppy mills stay in business. Nice people who just want a family pet to love end up with no other option to get a puppy.


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## swangful (Jun 12, 2018)

*Furiously taking notes*


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

My first email to my breeder is kinda embarrassing LOL (i was 14!!) but I basically just told her that I had wanted a dog for my entire life and did a lot of research on various breeds that interested me in hopes of impressing my parents. I also told her I was looking for a breeder who did all the recommended health clearances and who I felt comfortable with, and that I had heard a lot of great things about her program from other people. I ended the email by saying that I was interested in her program and would like to know more. She responded the next day with her phone number and told me to give her a call the next day. When I did call her, she spoke to me for awhile then asked to speak to my mom (I presume to make sure that my parents were on board too). 

Honestly, I'm pretty sure I just got really lucky lol.


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## jimgl (Jul 25, 2015)

I found that meeting breeders at a dog show is a great way to make the initial contact. I gave them a card with my contact information.

Jim


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

Brave said:


> I seriously hope no one google earthed my home address. That kinda creeps me out.


I think many, many breeders do this. I don't know about Michelle, though. We want to be able to see where the puppy will live and what the neighborhood is like without having to drive to every potential home. There is lots of good info we can get from Google Earth. Are there parks nearby? Do you live on a major street that's a danger should the dog get out? Are you telling us the truth about that fenced yard? Do you have a pool you "forgot" to disclose? Are you in a coyote or rattlesnake area? Can we see poisonous plants/trees in your yard? And occasionally there is something to gawk at. This $30 million home is what we saw when we Google Earthed a puppy buyer from our last litter (it's the property where Sharon Tate was murdered by Charles Manson). We have two puppies who get to live here!


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

I am very fortunate as I am friends with the breeder my dogs came from. Of course when Google Earth last flew over my house, my grandkids toys were scattered all over the backyard so it made it look messy. Mine are performance Goldens. It’s important to know what the breeder is aiming for I think. My girl would drive the average pet owner crazy. We don’t even notice but company is always asking if she ever stops. Go visit the puppies when you’re invited! My boy picked me....not the other way around. I wasn’t sure I believed it until I witnessed the puppy who was climbing all over then falling asleep on me ignore ignore others who came to visit. I have the closest bond with this boy! They are both the perfect dogs for me!


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

DanaRuns said:


> I think many, many breeders do this. I don't know about Michelle, though. We want to be able to see where the puppy will live and what the neighborhood is like without having to drive to every potential home. There is lots of good info we can get from Google Earth. Are there parks nearby? Do you live on a major street that's a danger should the dog get out? Are you telling us the truth about that fenced yard? Do you have a pool you "forgot" to disclose? Are you in a coyote or rattlesnake area? Can we see poisonous plants/trees in your yard? And occasionally there is something to gawk at. This $30 million home is what we saw when we Google Earthed a puppy buyer from our last litter (it's the property where Sharon Tate was murdered by Charles Manson). We have two puppies who get to live here!


If you Google Earthed my house, you would think I was lying about our fenced in yard. We moved in a year ago, and our house didn't have a fence. We did not officially move in, until we had the yard fenced in with a 6 foot privacy fence. I checked Google Earth just last week, and it has not been updated. It still shows an unfenced yard. 

Anyway - about a year ago, I knew that we were ready to add a second golden to our family. We were no longer restricted in number of pets, since we were now home owners (we had Noah, a cat and a lovebird). We also were not ready to add right away, and I knew from the forum, that more than likely, we were looking at about a year long wait anyway, which fit into our time frame. 

I posted in the looking for breeder section, and right away Robin (Prism) responded with some recommendations in Georgia, where I live and some pointers on each one, and how to best approach them (knowing them personally and how they preferred initial contacts). She also recommended that I go to the upcoming Atlanta Specialty where I could meet them in person as well, and best of all - she was going to be there, judging the CCA. This was my first show, and I wandered around a bit like a lost soul, not sure of the proper etiquette for approaching folks. I didn't want to interrupt them as they were grooming their dogs, and I wanted to be respectful. I "knew" a few people from Facebook only and did search them out and introduced myself and they began to introduce me to others. 

I had already filled out a puppy app for one of the breeders and had a few e-mail contacts, and she knew I was going to be there. I got to help her unload a few of her bitches and bring them into the venue, and she also introduced me to some breeders and let them know I was looking for a breeder. She was very gracious, and also is a very good friend of Robin's. 

Robin arrived about an hour later, and was so warm and welcoming, invited me to sit with her and some other folks to watch some of the classes. Then I remember she grabbed me and said - "let's go look at some puppies", and I followed her out and got to hold some puppies while she and the breeder discussed the litter. I was in heaven with the puppy breath! 

After spending the day with Robin and the other breeder (it's no secret - it was Margie Sarkin of Goldruls), I was pretty sure I'd love to have a puppy from either of them, but I was leaning more towards Robin - after all - I already "knew" Robin for 2 years here on the forum, she knew me and Noah, and our adventures over the years. So, I contacted Robin after that, thanked her for being so kind to me at the show, and told her that I'd really love to get on her list for a future puppy, and proceeded to fill out her puppy application. 

She sent me a long e-mail that she sends to her prospective puppy buyers with her future breeding plans, which included the cost of the puppy, the deposit that she required and when, and how the process would work. I had really LOVED a puppy from a previous litter that I saw at the show, and that she planned to repeat and was really hoping to get a puppy from that litter. Florida got hit with Hurricane Irma (I think that was the name) and it really got everything out of whack, and that breeding didn't take. 

I loved the future planned breedings and it was just a matter of which list I wanted to be put on. Moses did come from the same bitch as the puppy I loved, but the sire was the son of the previous sire. I loved that Robin's beloved Hudson was in the pedigree, as well as Margie's Eros (he's the grandsire). In the end - I did end up with a puppy from both of the breeders that I was considering, as both Robin and Margie are listed as the breeders of Moses litter (Goldruls Play Ball Y'all is the sire). We even got to see Margie again after we picked up Moses, because we transported her Kismet to her on our way back to Georgia - as she'd recently had two litter born, and really couldn't leave them for long - and got to see Eros again - he's such a love bug! 

I KNOW that I'm a very chatty buyer (as evidenced by this reply), and I knew that Robin had so much on her plate, that I tried really hard to balance my excitement for the updates on Moses' litter and not become "that buyer" who just drives the breeder insane! LOL I often wonder if Robin ever thought "dear God, what have I gotten myself into?"

She matched Moses to us perfectly. Knowing that Noah can be reactive as a result of being attacked by another dog (his philosophy is a good offense is better than a poor defense, now), I knew that we needed a boy who didn't need to be the "top dog", one who was respectful, yet biddable and calm natured - the yin to Noah's yang. I also wanted a future therapy dog. I volunteered for 12 years with Canine Assistants who trains service dogs, and I missed working with people and the dogs. I want to be able to go to the local hospital and nursing homes, and even school reading programs, so Robin knew that was also going to be Moses' future "job". Robin was very honest about one of the boys "Green boy is NOT your dog". LOL

Besides getting a beautiful, well balanced puppy, I feel that I gained a lifelong friend. On pick up day, I got there early (we planned an early pick up) with Starbucks in hand and we sat outside with the puppies in their xPen and chatted and visited for a couple hours before she got up, gave Moses a bath, and I signed paperwork. I think that visit, next to getting Moses, was my favorite part of the trip. 

I feel honored and blessed that we are now a part of the Prism family, and I would recommend that ANY puppy buyer put aside their desire for instant gratification, and shop the breeder and be prepared to get on a wait list. The wait feels like eternity, but when that breeder, who you've hopefully built a relationship of trust and even better, friendship with, puts that puppy that they selected specifically for you, into your arms - there's no better feeling. 

We got Noah from a BYB, and he's truly my heart dog. But he's a wild man. High energy, most likely field lines. But at the same time, I'm grateful for him because it's because of him that we started in dog sports and what a fun journey that has been. Three and a half years old and he's finally maturing into what is likely going to be a great dock diver, thanks to his dock diving coach. 

But, as much as I adore Noah, the experience of the journey with Moses is unparallelled. I am SOLD on allowing the breeder to choose the right puppy for you. And I'll never do it any other way again when purchasing another golden. It's so worth the wait, and so worth the journey when you find the right breeder who you connect with, who has really put their blood, sweat and tears into the breed and their breeding program and pedigrees.


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

By the way Dana, Deuce is gorgeous - and I love how you incorporated your love of magic into his name!


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Wow. Thank you! what a lovely post...


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

DanaRuns said:


> I think many, many breeders do this. I don't know about Michelle, though. We want to be able to see where the puppy will live and what the neighborhood is like without having to drive to every potential home. There is lots of good info we can get from Google Earth. Are there parks nearby? Do you live on a major street that's a danger should the dog get out? Are you telling us the truth about that fenced yard? Do you have a pool you "forgot" to disclose? Are you in a coyote or rattlesnake area? Can we see poisonous plants/trees in your yard? And occasionally there is something to gawk at. This $30 million home is what we saw when we Google Earthed a puppy buyer from our last litter (it's the property where Sharon Tate was murdered by Charles Manson). We have two puppies who get to live here!


I do it- I want to see where pup will live. I look up close at the plants growing and caution people to remove things I know to be deadly like cardboard palms (having now had two puppies die in their new homes because of these plants) and I want to see if they live close enough to a golf course to pose a ball problem or to a gator pond... I don't mean to creep someone one, but I do feel like I am pretty aware of dangers and the average person might not take things like the yard plants into account. If it bothers someone, I'm not the breeder for them. 
And I have a double standard- I don't give people MY address until after born, and I am scheduling pickup. Too many breeders get hurt, puppies stolen, etc for me to risk that early on. Another piece is that I know them well by the time puppies are toddling around of course and no criminal is going to wait a year to come kill me or steal my litter..


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

Prism Goldens said:


> I do it- I want to see where pup will live. I look up close at the plants growing and caution people to remove things I know to be deadly like cardboard palms (having now had two puppies die in their new homes because of these plants) and I want to see if they live close enough to a golf course to pose a ball problem or to a gator pond... I don't mean to creep someone one, but I do feel like I am pretty aware of dangers and the average person might not take things like the yard plants into account. If it bothers someone, I'm not the breeder for them.
> And I have a double standard- I don't give people MY address until after born, and I am scheduling pickup. Too many breeders get hurt, puppies stolen, etc for me to risk that early on. Another piece is that I know them well by the time puppies are toddling around of course and no criminal is going to wait a year to come kill me or steal my litter..


Haha! I didn't realize that! I'm actually glad you did, even though you couldn't see the fence! We love our property! 

I'm so sorry about your puppy buyers' losses due to certain plants. We are pretty aware of what plants are dangerous to dogs (and cats) and not use them.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I think some of this is good advice. I would hate for people to get the impression, however, that the more money you have the more likely you are to get a puppy. While true that dogs can be expensive and do require money to provide care... With some costing much more than anticipated with multiple surgeries, etc (ask my sister and her $10 thousand dollar lab mix with bionic knees and shoulders LOL), you don't need to be a bazillionaire to have a puppy from me or many breeders I know. 

You do, however, need to be willing to put in the time with me to help me choose you and put in the time with your (possible) puppy. There is no secret formula. People do things wrong a lot. But it doesn't mean they aren't willing to learn or take direction. People who seem to have a script or don't seem genuine are immediately taken off my list. So I would encourage people to be honest with the breeders you speak to. Don't try to make them believe you are something you are not. That doesn't end well. It's entirely possible it's not the right time for you to get a puppy. It's entirely possible that you need to consider an older dog because of your lifestyle. It's entirely possible that this isn't the right breed for you at all. All of that is OK. 

My advice is be honest, follow directions (ie do what the breeder asks), follow up, and be willing to wait for the right puppy.


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## jimgl (Jul 25, 2015)

I attached photos of our property with the puppy questionnaire I sent to the breeder.

Jim


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## farouche (Jul 26, 2018)

Our beloved golden Thor died about 4 years ago (at the age of 14). It took me a couple of years to even want to think about another dog. We've been trying to get a dog from a reputable breeder now for about 2 years. We were on the waiting list for one breeder, but she prefers to sell most of her dogs to people who want to show them or use them in agility trials. She doesn't have that many openings for owners looking for pets. That breeder is probably out of our reach now b/c we moved from the east coast to Colorado. I've had to start over looking for a reputable breeder and trying to be accepted by that breeder.

We thought we were getting a puppy this spring, but the dog miscarried. The breeder was heartbroken and so were we. We're willing to wait, but if I have to wait too much longer I may give up. We're in our early sixties and very active. We have a house on open space in Boulder, adjacent to trails. We both retired early and have the time to devote to the care and training of a dog. 

I've had goldens my whole life and love dogs. But we may have to settle for being "grandparents" to my daughter's golden at this rate. It gets discouraging.


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

A breeder I worked with did this. Having a fence was important to her and she wanted confirmation that I had a fenced yard. I also sent her pics of my fence and a copy of the invoice since the fence had been built within two years of when I worked with her. I was not offended in the least by her search.

I'm also open about living near a state park which means rattlesnakes are an issue. All of my dogs receive the rattlesnake vaccine. Because I live near a state park it's about a 10 minute drive to town and about 20 minutes to the emergency after-hours vet. I want the security of having a few extra minutes to get the dog to the vet should they be bitten. Thus, I openly disclose this danger. One breeder was fine with the vaccine. Another wouldn't sell me a dog because she was opposed and I wasn't going to lie and say that I wouldn't have the vaccine administered.

My strangest experience was the breeder who didn't realize that I'm one half of a gay couple until we arrived with our two kids and then wouldn't sell us a Golden because he was uncomfortable with his puppies going to live in a gay household. Whatever. He refunded the deposit and gave us the name of other breeders to call so we parted amicably. 



DanaRuns said:


> I think many, many breeders do this. I don't know about Michelle, though. We want to be able to see where the puppy will live and what the neighborhood is like without having to drive to every potential home. There is lots of good info we can get from Google Earth. Are there parks nearby? Do you live on a major street that's a danger should the dog get out? Are you telling us the truth about that fenced yard? Do you have a pool you "forgot" to disclose? Are you in a coyote or rattlesnake area? Can we see poisonous plants/trees in your yard? And occasionally there is something to gawk at. This $30 million home is what we saw when we Google Earthed a puppy buyer from our last litter (it's the property where Sharon Tate was murdered by Charles Manson). We have two puppies who get to live here!


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

I would also add that as a breeder caretaker for Canine Companions for Independence one of the things that makes it easier to say goodbye to the puppies at 8 weeks is that I know Canine Companions has done a thorough screening of its volunteer puppy raisers. The puppies are going to terrific volunteers. So, I certainly can't blame breeders for doing extensive research on their puppy buyers.


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## jimgl (Jul 25, 2015)

farouche said:


> We're willing to wait, but if I have to wait too much longer I may give up. We're in our early sixties and very active. We have a house on open space in Boulder, adjacent to trails. We both retired early and have the time to devote to the care and training of a dog.


Don't give up. Try contacting a breeder from the puppy referral list from your area GRCA affiliated club. We are retired in our early 70s. We reserved a puppy from a litter born on July 4.

Jim


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

farouche said:


> Our beloved golden Thor died about 4 years ago (at the age of 14). It took me a couple of years to even want to think about another dog. We've been trying to get a dog from a reputable breeder now for about 2 years. We were on the waiting list for one breeder, but she prefers to sell most of her dogs to people who want to show them or use them in agility trials. She doesn't have that many openings for owners looking for pets. That breeder is probably out of our reach now b/c we moved from the east coast to Colorado. I've had to start over looking for a reputable breeder and trying to be accepted by that breeder.
> 
> We thought we were getting a puppy this spring, but the dog miscarried. The breeder was heartbroken and so were we. We're willing to wait, but if I have to wait too much longer I may give up. We're in our early sixties and very active. We have a house on open space in Boulder, adjacent to trails. We both retired early and have the time to devote to the care and training of a dog.
> 
> I've had goldens my whole life and love dogs. But we may have to settle for being "grandparents" to my daughter's golden at this rate. It gets discouraging.


Don't give up. You never know when someone will have a bigger litter than expected or have someone drop off the list. Keep trying and the dog you are meant to have will come to you. Could you find a dog show to go to? Some people find it is a good way to meet breeders. Best wishes on your search.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Prism Goldens said:


> I do it- I want to see where pup will live. I look up close at the plants growing and caution people to remove things I know to be deadly like cardboard palms (having now had two puppies die in their new homes because of these plants) and I want to see if they live close enough to a golf course to pose a ball problem or to a gator pond... I don't mean to creep someone one, but I do feel like I am pretty aware of dangers and the average person might not take things like the yard plants into account. If it bothers someone, I'm not the breeder for them.
> ..


OK... I might be showing my "not technogeek enough" side here, but how do you see that kind of detail on google earth - to see what kind of plants are growing on the property? :surprise:

My home - there's NO WAY you'll see that detail because of all the trees. But I could tell anyone upfront that any kind of toxic plant you can think of here in Michigan, we probably have it. The dogs are kept out of the "worst" spots, and trained to leave things alone. The grass that they do eat usually does not have the worst stuff (nightshade, irises, lillies, etc) mixed in there. 

I've even left thistle (turns into burrs) in some areas, because it attracts gold finches and other song birds + bees. Even the nightshade attracts bees and birds. It's all natural food sources for wildlife.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Sagos and cardboard palms are pretty easy to spot since they have a distinctive shape. 
Even on Google earth -sometimes zillow has better pictures-


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## BlazenGR (Jan 12, 2012)

Something I didn't think about until reading through these posts..... Are you really serious about getting a puppy? Yes, make contact with your local club. Don't have one close? Find out if there is ANY local club. Conformation, obedience, agility, whatever. Go and meet people. Be nice. Be polite. Don't approach people if it appears they getting ready to go in the ring. Wait until they come out. Talk to them. Most of us don't mind talking about our dogs, and will tell you where we got them or if we bred them. If you have a local golden club,find out when the meetings are so that you can go as a visitor and meet the people you might get a puppy from. At least in our club, we will welcome you and ask if you want to get involved, and help you find a puppy. If you volunteer to work an event, we might try even harder, especially if it is a field event. (just kidding)


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## Goldens&Friesians (May 31, 2014)

DanaRuns said:


> Here's a sad fact: There are far more puppy buyers than there are well-bred puppies. So you're in a ruthless competition to get a good, healthy puppy. It shouldn't be that way, but it is. For our last litter of 9 puppies, we had 134 potential buyers who filled out puppy questionnaires to get on our list. So, only 6.71% of those who seriously wanted a puppy from our Ace x Ziva litter had any chance of getting one.
> 
> Assuming this same percentage holds true for ethical breeders overall, most people stand very little chance of getting a well-bred puppy. So how can you up your chances of being among the 6-7% of applicants who will actually get a well-bred puppy from a reputable breeder?


So I get it that breeders want the best homes possible for their puppies, that's a no-brainer. So my question is with sooo many people wanting well-bred puppies, why do good breeders have so few litters? Is it just a matter of the work involved with raising a litter? Too busy in the show ring? Or is it that many of the families wanting a puppy don't meet a breeder's standards? Or is it fear of push back from the adopt don't shop people who would love to call you a puppymill for breeding even a few litters so you don't want to risk it by breeding more? Obviously, I've never raised a litter and I've only shown and titled in obedience, not conformation, so I don't really know anything involved with all that. But it seems like if the good breeders bred more litters than more people would be supporting good breeders and not giving up and going to the backyard/profit-driven breeders? And if nobody buys from those backyard/profit-driven breeders, than they would stop breeding. Just a curiosity of mine.

I got really lucky with my girl, April. I had been contacting breeders looking to get on someone's wait list. I did most of what you suggested, telling them about me, my home, how the dog would be raised, what I wanted to do with the dog, the fact that we had another golden, etc. Most of them never got back to me, but one of the breeders I contacted (Confetti goldens) said they knew of this litter and were pretty sure they still had puppies available. So I contacted them (Seraphim goldens) and told them my interests and they picked my girl April out for me. I was able to get her within a month or so of starting my search, and I know how rare it is to get a well-bred dog so quickly!


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

I think what it is for most ethical hobby breeders is that they don't breed to sell puppies, they breed to get a puppy they want to keep and use in their breeding program. It's not a business for most of us, it's a hobby, and we breed to further our own interests in the hobby. It's not about selling puppies, or using breeding for income. It's about making that next great puppy for us to keep. We are all on a quest to breed the perfect Golden Retriever. All the other puppies are just added bonus that we get to share with others.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Goldens&Friesians said:


> But it seems like if the good breeders bred more litters than more people would be supporting good breeders and not giving up and going to the backyard/profit-driven breeders? And if nobody buys from those backyard/profit-driven breeders, than they would stop breeding. Just a curiosity of mine.


So I'm a newbie in the world of well bred goldens. Since I just brought my first well bred golden home like 3 days ago. BUT in the 5 months preseding that when I was deep in the anticipation stage (anticipation of the breeding taking place... anticipation of puppies being born.... anticipation of watching them grow up.... so on and so forth) EVERYONE I talked to about my soon-to-be puppy wanted to know the price. And literally everyone not in the dog world was absolutely appalled by the price. 

I think the price, while I'm sure I was shocked a year ago when I started saving up, is fair and something I was more than willing to pay for my puppy. But most people see that price and immediately balk and think it's ridiculous and stupid. I spent 5 months trying to educate people about why getting a well bred dog is important and not just for show people but I was constantly dismissed because "oh but you want a show dog" when in reality even if we don't get into performance venues or conformation showing (which I'm hoping we do get to do), this puppy is going to spend a long time as my pet and companion and I would still want a well bred dog. 

I just wish more people thought about their future dog way more than they do now. 

That probably came off really rambling.... if so my apologies... my brain and I are tired. LOL!


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## jdavisryan (Jan 28, 2018)

DanaRuns said:


> I think what it is for most ethical hobby breeders is that they don't breed to sell puppies, they breed to get a puppy they want to keep and use in their breeding program. It's not a business for most of us, it's a hobby, and we breed to further our own interests in the hobby. It's not about selling puppies, or using breeding for income. It's about making that next great puppy for us to keep. We are all on a quest to breed the perfect Golden Retriever. All the other puppies are just added bonus that we get to share with others.


This is what I think a lot of us have been missing when we wonder why good breeders don't have more litters. It didn't really occur to me that good breeders are hoping to produce the perfect puppy for their breeding program, so thanks for sharing that. This thread has been really informative regarding the process of breeding quality dogs and finding the best homes for them. I wish there were more breeders putting in the time and effort to produce quality dogs as the demand is clearly there, but from what I've learned here on the forum and from observing the process with my breeder, I understand why one litter every year or so is enough for most breeders. Not to mention the work in conformation, obedience, agility etc. Sadly, the poor breeders will continue to fill in the gaps. I wish I had the knowledge, time, energy, etc. to join the breeding world but a girl's got to know her limitations.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Goldens&Friesians said:


> So I get it that breeders want the best homes possible for their puppies, that's a no-brainer. So my question is with sooo many people wanting well-bred puppies, why do good breeders have so few litters? Is it just a matter of the work involved with raising a litter? Too busy in the show ring? Or is it that many of the families wanting a puppy don't meet a breeder's standards? Or is it fear of push back from the adopt don't shop people who would love to call you a puppymill for breeding even a few litters so you don't want to risk it by breeding more? Obviously, I've never raised a litter and I've only shown and titled in obedience, not conformation, so I don't really know anything involved with all that. But it seems like if the good breeders bred more litters than more people would be supporting good breeders and not giving up and going to the backyard/profit-driven breeders? And if nobody buys from those backyard/profit-driven breeders, than they would stop breeding. Just a curiosity of mine.


In my opinion, it's basically all of those things plus the risk to my bitch. Who is my performance partner and companion first. Teal had a bad case of mastitis with her recent litter, not the worst but bad enough that it ruptured and she needed some strong antibiotics. If I breed her again there is a possibility that she'll get it a second time; although I learned a lot from the experience and hope I could prevent it next time. While she was still sick I even considered spaying her and not breeding again.

I'm also limited by my time, my number of dogs and my home. I have a toddler, a husband and 3, going on 4 adult dogs. With the exception of Teal, they've all been a little neglected the last 7 weeks. I slept in another room with the puppies for several weeks, my toddler watched a lot more television that normal because I'm constantly in the box cleaning, etc. I don't have much time for walking the big dogs in the morning after scooping puppy poops, feeding, changing water and cleaning again. I'm not planning to ever have another summer litter in this house because we don't have central air. That might mean 2 years before the next litter if her timing doesn't work out.


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## laurenC (Sep 20, 2017)

Hi Dana, Thanks so much for sharing all the information! How many litters have you bred now?


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

laurenC said:


> Hi Dana, Thanks so much for sharing all the information! How many litters have you bred now?


Twelve. Two as Esquire from my current breeding bitch, Ziva, and none yet from either of her daughters that I kept. So out of the dogs I currently have, only two, but 12 overall.


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## Jingles Mama (Apr 30, 2018)

Oh goodness, I've read through this thread and started crying. We lost our 9.5 year old baby girl Jingles 2.5 long weeks ago. We adopted her from a rescue group at a year old. She was the most perfect dog. I came on this thread to see what I could learn about breeders, and now I feel like I will never get lucky enough to have another golden girl because of the lack of available pups (there's even a long wait list for rescue groups in my area in Texas). Anyone have any tips? My home and my heart are empty.

Thank you.


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## GraceNote313 (Aug 7, 2018)

Is there anyone available to private message me about clearances for a possible litter that I am hoping to get a puppy from? I don't know how to interpret the information to see if I am making a good decision.


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## LynnC (Nov 14, 2015)

GraceNote313 said:


> Is there anyone available to private message me about clearances for a possible litter that I am hoping to get a puppy from? I don't know how to interpret the information to see if I am making a good decision.


You can post the sire and dam information and members can help you with that. I also suggest starting your own thread in the Choosing a Breeder Forum.


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## Laurie (Sep 20, 2009)

GraceNote313 said:


> Is there anyone available to private message me about clearances for a possible litter that I am hoping to get a puppy from? I don't know how to interpret the information to see if I am making a good decision.


You could just start a new thread asking for help on clearances as this post may get lost.


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## jdavisryan (Jan 28, 2018)

Jingles Mama said:


> Oh goodness, I've read through this thread and started crying. We lost our 9.5 year old baby girl Jingles 2.5 long weeks ago. We adopted her from a rescue group at a year old. She was the most perfect dog. I came on this thread to see what I could learn about breeders, and now I feel like I will never get lucky enough to have another golden girl because of the lack of available pups (there's even a long wait list for rescue groups in my area in Texas). Anyone have any tips? My home and my heart are empty.
> 
> Thank you.


Oh please, don't feel hopeless about your chances of finding another Golden. We just brought home our wonderful puppy from a great breeder, and the process took a little less than 8 months from first contact to homecoming. If you commit to finding a good breeder first, are willing to wait for a litter, and not get too hung up on the sex or color of the puppy, you'll find a beautiful dog. Patience and polite persistence pay off. Good luck.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

GraceNote313 said:


> Is there anyone available to private message me about clearances for a possible litter that I am hoping to get a puppy from? I don't know how to interpret the information to see if I am making a good decision.


If you start a new thread, there are a bunch of people (myself included) who like digging through OFA.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Jingles Mama said:


> Oh goodness, I've read through this thread and started crying. We lost our 9.5 year old baby girl Jingles 2.5 long weeks ago. We adopted her from a rescue group at a year old. She was the most perfect dog. I came on this thread to see what I could learn about breeders, and now I feel like I will never get lucky enough to have another golden girl because of the lack of available pups (there's even a long wait list for rescue groups in my area in Texas). Anyone have any tips? My home and my heart are empty.
> 
> Thank you.


Idk if you're anywhere near the DFW area (I know Texas is HUGE!) but you might want to visit: DFW Golden Retriever Breeders - Dallas Fort Worth Texas 

I remember seeing from a friend that it's a list updated by reputable breeders in the area.


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## TheresaD (Oct 8, 2012)

HiTideGoldens said:


> I would hate for people to get the impression, however, that the more money you have the more likely you are to get a puppy.


 Really? Where in Dana's post did she give that impression?


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## TheresaD (Oct 8, 2012)

I'm really sorry you had that experience with your husband/partner. As a gay person myself, It would have felt like a kick in the stomach. You handled it with grace & dignity.


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## happypuphappylife (Sep 15, 2018)

DanaRuns said:


> 1. Initial Contact. You never get a second chance to make a good first impression. In the initial contact we want to see more than just "Do you have puppies, and how much are they?" We want to know who you are. Why are you looking for a puppy? What are you going to do with this puppy? Have you had Goldens/dogs before? What is your living situation like? And bonus points for giving us a picture of what the puppy's life would be like. Don't write a manifesto, keep it short but informative. Some breeders have this ego thing where they want to know why you chose them, what you know about their dogs, why his/her dogs are just what you are looking for. I think this is BS. Most puppy buyers are just looking for a healthy pet and are desperately searching for a good breeder who will sell them one, and don't have much knowledge beyond that.


This thread has been so helpful. But how long is too long for an initial contact email? My draft is 500 words. Is this too long? 

My outline is: 
Paragraph 1: Asking about availability on the wait list for their upcoming planned breeding, and telling them why I am interested in them as breeders
Paragraph 2: A few sentences on why I want a golden
Paragraphs 3, 4 and 5: My lifestyle and what I'm looking for in a dog. This section is the bulk of the email, and is about 400 words 

I'm not sure what length is customary, and don't want to hurt myself by messing up my first impression! Thanks so much!


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