# Your Current Fave Stud Dogs?!?!?



## peeps

Hmmmmm this will require some research! But one that immediately comes to mind is Zoom 
*BIS/BISS Can./Am. Ch. Klaasem's Zoom Zoom Zoom Can. SDHF, Can./Am. OS (3/8/2003-) who for such a young man has accomplished much. *He is said to be a moderate dog and although I haven't seen him in person I have heard the this alot. He has produced some beautiful babies of a variety of types and has been bred to a variety of bitches. Out of these litters has come BIS and BISS offspring as well as babies with numerous titles at the other end of their names! Zoom has also recently become an outstanding sire - in both Canada and the US !! He is in my opinion a beautiful valuable asset to many breeding programs! - including mine some day!


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## SunGold

My current top 5 - in no particular order.

CH Nitro's Boy Wonder TDI, CGC - Outstanding dog, met him in person multiple times, solid producer.
CH Yukon's Turn The Page - Have liked him since I saw him in 2004 - very flashy, handsome boy.
CH Sunkota's Phorgone Conclusion OS - The grandfather to my boy Eclipse and another solid producer, really puts his stamp on puppies.
CH Faera's Starlight OS - Have one of his daughters and multiple grandkids. Love their temperament and personalities, fun, bubbly dogs.
CH Evergreen's Mountain Sunset OS - Father to my boy Eclipse, met some of his kids at the National, wish I could meet him!


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## Ash

Nice line ups guys. Peeps add more I said 5 LOL. Thanks this has been interesting.


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## Doolin

From what I have seen in the rings I would have to say that 
Klaasem's Zoom Zoom Zoom, Seeing the movement and head pieces on his kids you couldn't miss them at this years National. I was contemplating breeding one of my girls to him.

Summit's Mr Bojangles- Almost everything he produces has great movement and temperament. He himself is a wonderful boy. I have spent a few weekends with him and find it hard not to like the old man.

Highmark Mirasol Once a Knight- His movement and temperament put him at the top of my list. Not too many dogs that have proven themselves as he has. 

Pebwin XPDNC- From the few kids of his that I have seen, structure is really exceptional. I had one of his daughters staying here for a couple months, what a wonderful girl with the nicest front and shortest loin I have felt on a golden.

Dewmist Davenport- While English in "style" I love the structure on his pups. While they might be quite wild, I had a grandson of his who was the sweetest boy you'll ever meet. Also look at what he has produced in the joint area a lot of "excellents" wouldn't it be nice if there were more dogs producing like this!
(These would be the dogs on the North American Continent top 5 for me)



I wanted to say Eirene's Soul Provider but I just saw that he passed away.


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## Kohanagold

I'm still giving this some thought... one of my top 5 recently passed away too.

I hadn't heard that Tommy passed, but then went and looked on k9data and saw it was just today (and his birthday). Sad.... RIP Tom.

BJ


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## Ljilly28

Not a top five list in general, but five whose puppies I actively want to live with as a nonexpert with crushes on a few dogs.

Well, what I greedily want for myself is a Yogi puppy- Highmark Mirasol Once A Knight. I love Fisher, Reason, Finnegan,Keyser and the nonshow dogs like Kramer etc. I like the all aroundness,moderation, heads, intelligence,and soundness of the pups. 

I have a lot of faith that Stoney will be a contender as he finishes his MH this year and joins the club of CH/ MH. AM CH BISS Springcreek Everlore All Time Hi WCX,SH,CD,RN,VCX,CGC, and some other alphabet soup I cant remember off hand. I will always have an eye out for a Stoney puppy. He hasnt had much time for girlfriends yet since he is earning all these advanced degrees and is only 4 years old, so it's obviously too early to put him on this list for studs, but I do would want a puppy of his from the right CH girl with nice bone.

Sunkota's Phorgone Conclusion- The stamp Phlyer was able to put on Fenway, even though he has a field bred mother(A Firemark's Push comes To Shove daughter)amazes me. I love the head, bone, and mischievious, playful,happy personality. Fenway passed his CGC today at 8 months, and is so intelligent with an excellent front and long neck, great rear angles too. Looking through Phlyer's kids and grandkids is like a who's who in dogs! Since there's a Phlyer pup asleep on my foot right now who epitomizes golden personality, he has to be on my personal list. Miles, Truman, and Traeloch's Maggie come to mind. . .

FC AFC OTCH FTCH AFTCH Can MOTCH TNT's Stanley Steamer UDX, WCX , MH, OBHF, FDHF, OS is an OS sire whose performance abilities in areas of interest to me exceed wildest dreams. This is a great stud for obedience/performance goldens:http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=75137

I do think a few of the Nautilus boys are gorgeous in the opposite way from Yogi- over-the-top lush and luxurious pups with love, love, lovey dovey, joyous, radiant personalities.

Klaasem's Zoom Zoom Zoom and his Maine brother Hubbs(Klaasem'sHubba Hubba Hubba) need no comment.


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## Ash

Gret job so far. Anyone else?


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## Maggies mom

Dont have a top 5 but do love this dog..... Im learning about breeding and showing.
U-CDX AKC & INT CH HILLSIDE SMITH-N-WESSON CDX RAE TDX WC VCX (SDHF)
"Wesson" of hillside goldens


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## Ljilly28

Ash, I think I know two who would be on yours, but I'd love to see your five or ten-in order!


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## AquaClaraCanines

Faera's Starlight- flat out one of my all time faves.


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## telsmith1

One of my fave's that I met this weekend, he is gorgeous:

Flag - Am.Can.U-GR Ch. Malagold's Wave To The Flag BISS

Another fave that I recently had the opportunity to meet (maybe I am biased since I own his daughter):

Mariner - BIS BISS SHR CH Shor'Line Jetoca High Seas Adventure JH, RN, VC, SDHF, CGC

Coach - BISS Am Ch Happy Hr Highmark Bad News Bears SH SDHF

Yogi - Am./Can. CH OTCH Highmark Mirasol Once A Knight VCD3 UDX3 TDX JH MX MXJ WC VCX OS SDHF OBHF


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## Ash

Well, this is looking good! I will give it some thought and try to order them.


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## Gwen

peeps said:


> Hmmmmm this will require some research! But one that immediately comes to mind is Zoom
> *BIS/BISS Can./Am. Ch. Klaasem's Zoom Zoom Zoom Can. SDHF, Can./Am. OS (3/8/2003-) who for such a young man has accomplished much. *He is said to be a moderate dog and although I haven't seen him in person I have heard the this alot. He has produced some beautiful babies of a variety of types and has been bred to a variety of bitches. Out of these litters has come BIS and BISS offspring as well as babies with numerous titles at the other end of their names! Zoom has also recently become an outstanding sire - in both Canada and the US !! He is in my opinion a beautiful valuable asset to many breeding programs! - including mine some day!


Zoom is Razz's Daddy and we're hoping to add to Zoom's successful "kids".


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## NuttinButGoldens

Well, I don't really follow this much, but one of my favorites would have to be Lycinian's AM CH Big Bang:

http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=39023

After all, he's Gilmours pop 

And I can tell already he is going to look very close to his Pop


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## NuttinButGoldens

Now how about that !

Pebwin XPDNC is Gilmours Grandma 

His Mom is

Pebwin Conbrio Oahu Pardina

http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=232934

*
*


Doolin said:


> From what I have seen in the rings I would have to say that
> Klaasem's Zoom Zoom Zoom,
> Summit's Mr Bojangles
> Highmark Mirasol Once a Knight
> *Pebwin XPDNC*
> Dewmist Davenport
> (These would be the dogs on the North American Continent top 5 for me)
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to say Eirene's Soul Provider but I just saw that he passed away.


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## AquaClaraCanines

Beautiful dogs!


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## peeps

Okay ...
I love Andy - *Am/Can CH Chuckanut Party Favour O Novel SDHF OS *- 
I admit I am biased but I can vouch for one of his babies being the dog..or bitch rather of my dreams!!!

I really like Seger - *Am. Can. Ch. Yukon's Turn The Page *I also plan on adding some Seger to my lines in the future.

I like Cutter - *Am./Can. Ch. Sunjoie 'n Woodland Anyway U Slice It CanSDHF* -I have recently seen some video and new pics - WOWSERS. Ho is a gorgeous boy and I like what I see him passing on to his babies!!!

I need to also add Devin - *Am/Can CH Elysian's Urbun Legend TD *- who hasn't had alot of babies but is producing very well and is worth keeping an eye on.


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## tippykayak

Well, if my puppy buying habits are any indicator, Sunfire's XX Muleteam Borax is my all-time favorite. I've gotten a grandson, then a son (frozen), and this weekend I'm picking up another grandson who's essentially a line breeding of Borax.

Part of it was luck of the draw and part of it is the attitude, working ability, conformation, and good looks of all the dog's I've met that have him in their lines.


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## Ash

My top 5 for today anyways would be: 

Summits Mr Bojangles - One of greatest producers IMO, all round gorgeous dog, Kali's grandsire.
Highmark Mirasol Once A Night - Party's grandsire, love how versatile he is and how successful he was, nice producer, healthy boy.
Legacy's Standing Ovation - I love soooo many of his babies. 
Hytree's Ryd-N-Out The Storm - Has been very successful lately as have his babies. He seems to give them some great assets.
Klaasems Zoom Zoom Zoom - Seems to stamp his babies with the "Zoom thing". Kids are also doing well in many diffrent venues. 

There are several but this is for right now


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## AquaClaraCanines

I love Speaker too, if you want to include working dogs


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## AmbikaGR

Here are a few of my current favorite stud dogs. I have left off all titles due to the fact they are all so very titled I know I will miss some.
And not in any particular order


Hillock's Double Trouble II - Met Echo at the Eastern Regional in Pittsburg back in '03. Saw him and his owner standing off to the side. I had to go over and inquire abot him. When I realized I knew his sire and how well I thought his pedigree would work with mine I started the ball rolling. At this time he had not yet been shown in the conformation ring. 

Seeshaw Dylan's Evening Blaze - My first "draw to Dylan was his pedigree. I loved his sire and his dam's side goes back to a lotof dogs in my Keeper's pedigree. I have met a few of his get and like what I have seen.

Highmark Mirasol Once A Knight - Yogi first caught my eye back at the National in Rhode Island in '99. I probably would have inquired about him for my Keeper but feel in love with another while there and ended up breeding to him instead.

Snowshoe's Girl Crazy - Have admired Presley from a far for years. Like his pedigree have met some of his get nd was again impressed. What a thrill while at the National this year when I actually got to see him in the fur. I happened to over hear this couple talking to someone about their boy, Presley. Well being "shy" of course I walked over and asked if he was "THE" Presley. 

And a boy who is still very young but appears to be producing real well and owned by a forum member is
Deauxquest Hard Day's Knight - another dog I admired from a far. Loved his pedigree and accomplishments (all owner handled) and got the chance to get a daughter of his. Well as most of you know I am head over heels in LOVE with this girl. My only fear is I won't be able to do HER justice. And trust me you will over the next few years be hearing from more and mre of his offspring.


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## K9-Design

This is an interesting thread. Many people are listing what must be just their arbitrarily favorite dogs because within the lists of each person there are types and pedigrees all over the map! If you based a breeding program including the dogs listed you'd have a big mishmash of dogs 
I can admire but not "list" dogs I don't have any personal experience with or experience with their puppies. I also don't have a lot of use for a stud dog with no performance titles in his background. To that end I of course love Yogi, but it's HIS sire Strider who is the more influential stud dog. Of course I am a huge fan of the Highmark side of things, while they don't have a lot of performance in the pedigree, the proof is in the pudding with Yogi and Coach. I saw Coach's sire Beast at the National in Florida, just playing ball with his owner, and absolutely loved his look and drive. Coach is being bred to Fisher's neice so I'm very interested to see what is produced. I've been very impressed with Coach kids I've seen, both type & structure and working ability.
On the flip side you cannot deny the influence of Expo (Elysian's SkiHi Dubl Exposure). Everyone thinks Fisher looks like Yogi but it's Expo, his great grandpa, he most resembles. Expo is prominent in many good performance pedigrees. In breedings to Expo grand-daughters Fisher has produced some awesome little working pups (and more on the way 
Of course this is all musings on my part, I don't have bitches and don't breed!


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## buckeyegoldenmom

My favorites:

Summits Mr Bojangles

Klassems Zoom Zoom Zoom

Daybreak Varsity Jump

Faera's Starlight

Of course I am prejudiced for dogs that my boys both come from!


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## NuttinButGoldens

Ok, ok. I'll choose one more.

Airbud


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## Bogey's Mom

Ljilly28 said:


> I have a lot of faith that Stoney will be a contender as he finishes his MH this year and joins the club of CH/ MH. AM CH BISS Springcreek Everlore All Time Hi WCX,SH,CD,RN,VCX,CGC, and some other alphabet soup I cant remember off hand. I will always have an eye out for a Stoney puppy. He hasnt had much time for girlfriends yet since he is earning all these advanced degrees and is only 4 years old, so it's obviously too early to put him on this list for studs, but I do would want a puppy of his from the right CH girl with nice bone.


I would also love a Stoney pup! Pat Quinn has been a wonderful help to me with my pup, and I just have so much respect for her. 

These lists are fascinating! There are some beautiful boys in the mix, for sure.


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## MillysMom

This fellow is owned by the lady my parents use for pet boarding. I've met him a few times and he really is stunning in person. I know absolutely nothing about his breeding, but I think he's very pretty--and sweet too. 

His breeder told me every single puppy in his litter looked this good, and this dog is the reason she got into conformation shows, because he just lights up when he enters the ring.

http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=126306


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## Ash

I didn't mean to "list" the dogs just to share who you admire just by seeing them and their babies. Its hard to have personal experience with all of them and their get. Can't wait to hear more.


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## SunGold

Ash said:


> I didn't mean to "list" the dogs just to share who you admire just by seeing them and their babies. Its hard to have personal experience with all of them and their get. Can't wait to hear more.


I just edited my origional "list" to add more detail. Sorry!


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## Ash

Ljilly28 said:


> Ash, I think I know two who would be on yours, but I'd love to see your five or ten-in order!


Now I am curious Jill. What were your guesses???


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## Ash

SunGold said:


> I just edited my origional "list" to add more detail. Sorry!


I know, me too. Great to see, thanks for your contribution.


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## AmbikaGR

Ash said:


> I didn't mean to "list" the dogs just to share who you admire just by seeing them and their babies. Its hard to have personal experience with all of them and their get. Can't wait to hear more.


 
Fixed. :


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## Ash

AmbikaGR said:


> Fixed. :


Sweet!!! I am finding these so much fun to read!!!


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## 3SweetGoldens

Hi everyone...reading this thread with great interest!  I was just wondering if all, or most anyway are dogs from the East coast? Wondering if any of you have favorites bred and handled from someone on the West Coast? Just curious......


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## Doolin

Sorry, my list now contains reasons why as well

And while I didn't include Stoney in my top five, I believe he might one day be there. His one undesirable feature isn't being passed on and his strucuture and temperament is. I had a litter out of him, complete outcross. You should see the structure on these pups, fronts are outstanding and head are to die for!


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## Bogey's Mom

What undesirable feature in Stoney are you talking about, Doolin?


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## Pointgold

I personally like:
BIS Ch Birnam Wood's Hoot Gibson, SDHF
And of course, Mulder.
While I have never been a great fan of the dog himself, I do love what he has produced - Ch Seeshaw Dylan's Evening Blaze, I also very much like what his son, Ch Rumour's Just Kat 'N Around has produced. 
I love my Ch Justmoor Teran's Famous Amos kids. And Ch Karagold's Kruz'n Coast T'Coast has produced well.


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## Doolin

Dropped lower incisors, not a fault just undesirable. He isn't passing them on as far as we have seen.


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## Ripley Goldens

*My Faves*

Here are my faves and I won't deny I am biased as I have either used or including most in my breeding program. These are in no particular order and may be based on the dog's personal merits or what I see in thie offspring.

Mulder
Casanova 
Hobo 
Mariner
Jag


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## Bogey's Mom

You good breeders are just so picky!


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## AmbikaGR

Pointgold said:


> While I have never been a great fan of the dog himself, I do love what he has produced - Ch Seeshaw Dylan's Evening Blaze, I also very much like what his son, Ch Rumour's Just Kat 'N Around has produced.


 
This reminds me of one of the first things one of my mentors told me when I started looking for my first stud dog.

"If you see a dog you like alot, then go find their sire. After all they are the one who produced what you liked."


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## Pointgold

AmbikaGR said:


> This reminds me of one of the first things one of my mentors told me when I started looking for my first stud dog.
> 
> "If you see a dog you like alot, then go find their sire. After all they are the one who produced what you liked."


Exactly. The mark of successful sires (or dams) is that they produce BETTER than themselves.


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## arcane

My top 5 are: 
Talon
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=42886
Banjo
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=19240
Zoom
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=101932
Derby
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=15
Ready
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=11

Some have passed on but these are my ideal boys.


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## Ash

AmbikaGR said:


> This reminds me of one of the first things one of my mentors told me when I started looking for my first stud dog.
> 
> "If you see a dog you like alot, then go find their sire. After all they are the one who produced what you liked."


Thats so true.


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## arcane

*Studs Du Jour*

It disturbs me that there are so many stud dogs being used that have a very straight/short upper arm. AND producing this consistently in their Get. :uhoh: 

I love Yogi & Nitro as well in the current lists. I Have never seen them in the flesh, or had hands on, so I am going on pictures and hearsay alone


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## DelmarvaGold

arcane said:


> It disturbs me that there are so many stud dogs being used that have a very straight/short upper arm. AND producing this consistently in their Get. :uhoh:
> 
> I love Yogi & Nitro as well in the current lists. I Have never seen them in the flesh, or had hands on, so I am going on pictures and hearsay alone


What amazes me is that some breeders will only breed to "popular" dogs who have a string of titles in front or behind their name and it doesn't matter what they produce. As long as they can say I bred to XXX..... There is a very well known stud dog that was with a top pro for well over a year. Everyone flocked to him to breed. Even some close friends of mine. Guess what? He can only produce something "worthy" when bred back to his own line. I just evaluated a litter last week and nothing impressed me and all are going as pets. And his stud fee is well over $1000. Thanks but no thanks. I would rather breed to an unknown stud dog who has never stepped foot in the ring (for one reason or another) and has the structure and temperament that "I" want in my breeding program.

And for the top 5...well I have just one...KIRBY (who has consistently produced talented and structurally correct offspring no matter what bitch he bred)


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## Ash

DelmarvaGold said:


> And for the top 5...well I have just one...KIRBY (who has consistently produced talented and structurally correct offspring no matter what bitch he bred)


No one can dispute he was a great dog and no can can dispute him amongst other did wonderful things for the breed. Kirby one of my all-time favourite Goldens. People use older dogs and thats their choice but the future has to move forward. I fond many are stuck and crutching on older dogs and the whats "hot" right now.


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## Pointgold

DelmarvaGold said:


> What amazes me is that some breeders will only breed to "popular" dogs who have a string of titles in front or behind their name and it doesn't matter what they produce. As long as they can say I bred to XXX..... There is a very well known stud dog that was with a top pro for well over a year. Everyone flocked to him to breed. Even some close friends of mine. Guess what? He can only produce something "worthy" when bred back to his own line. I just evaluated a litter last week and nothing impressed me and all are going as pets. And his stud fee is well over $1000. Thanks but no thanks. I would rather breed to an unknown stud dog who has never stepped foot in the ring (for one reason or another) and has the structure and temperament that "I" want in my breeding program.
> 
> And for the top 5...well I have just one...KIRBY (who has consistently produced talented and structurally correct offspring no matter what bitch he bred)


I never liked Kirby, but I have LOVED so many of his kids and grands and great grands... There is no arguing his contribution to the breed.


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## Ljilly28

DelmarvaGold said:


> And for the top 5...well I have just one...KIRBY (who has consistently produced talented and structurally correct offspring no matter what bitch he bred)


So would you ever breed to Kirby, frozen?


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## goldengirls550

I can't really name a top 5 at this point but I'll give it a go. Not in order by any means

Faera's Future Classic "Thunder"
Hytree's Ryd-N-Out The Storm "Ryder"
Highmark Mirasol Once A Knight "Yogi"
Bravo's Old Spice "Clipper"
Steadmor's Destined For Questan "Destin"


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## fuzzbuzz

Pointgold said:


> I personally like:
> BIS Ch Birnam Wood's Hoot Gibson, SDHF
> And of course, Mulder.
> While I have never been a great fan of the dog himself, I do love what he has produced - Ch Seeshaw Dylan's Evening Blaze, I also very much like what his son, Ch Rumour's Just Kat 'N Around has produced.
> I love my Ch Justmoor Teran's Famous Amos kids. And Ch Karagold's Kruz'n Coast T'Coast has produced well.


 
I love my Amos kid too!! Buzz is the Amos kid.


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## Shalva

I have a few 
Ganwales Hey Diddle Diddle aka Patrick 
Trowsnest Gust Wind (up and coming) aka Gusty 
Trowsnest English Gentry aka Toffer 
Cheek to Cheek Steve McQueen aka Nevada 

oh and I love this dog in the UK.... Digger .... a young dog ... but he hasn't been used but once and I am not sure that he is out and about enough to ever be considered a stud dog.... but wow is he gorgeous .... 

I will probably have another list when I get back from the UK in April.... 

I also am disturbed by the lack of fronts, and upper arm.... not to mention the shoulder layback that exists out there right now. Personally I dont think most folks (many judges included) even know what a proper front looks like or how to feel for one. 

just my two cents as always


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## Ash

Bumping as I'm bored and would love to hear from others. Linda??? Anyone?? Also, as trhe disscussion has turned to fronts, upper arms etc. who are some dogs that you think have overall great front ends??


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## Pointgold

Anywhere that I have been, fronts have improved and are better than rears. Toplines have become soft, and many sloping, eyes too smaill, and tails set and or carried too high.


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## Doolin

I would like to hear from those who have had their hands on dogs with great fronts. I still think the upper arms are a little short on most dogs. There was a couple of dogs at the National that I thought had good fronts. I actually think I have seen more Bitches with great fronts then Dogs. Has anybody else noticed this trend? The girls seem to be much stronger then the boys?


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## arcane

Ash said:


> Bumping as I'm bored and would love to hear from others. Linda??? Anyone?? Also, as the disscussion has turned to fronts, upper arms etc. who are some dogs that you think have overall great front ends??


Well I'll add one dog that I have personally seen that has a wonderful front assembly and is consistently throwing this is his get 

Ambertru's Grand Funk "Rhodie"


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## Bogey's Mom

For those of us who aren't experts, could someone post a picture of what a perfect golden male and female should look like?


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## peeps

can't wait to see the pics for this one lol - I find that everyone has a slightly different skew on what they find perfect and expect your request will draw a variety of photos! 



Bogey's Mom said:


> For those of us who aren't experts, could someone post a picture of what a perfect golden male and female should look like?


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## peeps

Ash- I have heard it said that Hobo has a fantastic return of upper arm - I have never had my hands on him  but I have heard it multiple times from different breeders that have used and have not used him so....anyone here that has used him or hands on'd him  please let us know!


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## Pointgold

Bogey's Mom said:


> For those of us who aren't experts, could someone post a picture of what a perfect golden male and female should look like?


 
Yeah, I'd like to see those, too!


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## Bogey's Mom

http://www.shorlinegoldens.com/harbour_x_hobo.html

It looks like there is a Hobo litter ready to go home soon. And it's in my town! How crazy!

Also - I know a lot of people on here love their Dichi Goldens and they have one in particular that I think it just adorable - that's a technical term coming from a newbie.  His name is Victor and you can see a picture here:

http://www.everythinggolden.com/new_page_233.htm


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## Shalva

Pointgold said:


> Anywhere that I have been, fronts have improved and are better than rears. Toplines have become soft, and many sloping, eyes too smaill, and tails set and or carried too high.


I actually find that rather sad as I find fronts to be absolutely appalling and if you are saying that the fronts are better than the rears... I can't even imagine what the rears look like..... as a whole I find rears to be far better than fronts... the problem is that you can hide a bad front under a whole lotta hair... the only way to really tell is to get your hands on the dog... so many of the pictures of showdogs that I see.... there is a whole lot of rough but no front angulation.... 

I guess having a good front is a matter of perspective.... I am used to seeing outstanding fronts so what I view as a good front may be different from what someone else views as a good front. 

hard to explain I guess


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## Shalva

Bogey's Mom said:


> For those of us who aren't experts, could someone post a picture of what a perfect golden male and female should look like?


Bogeys, there is no perfect dog.... and each of us has a very different idea of what the perfect golden should look like. Some would say go back to the dogs of yesteryear and that is a perfect golden.... some would pick a particular famous dog and say that is the perfect dog. It is really a matter of opinion. It is also one of the reasons that a person can show there dog one day and be a group placer or Best in Show winner and the next day do nothing... because even the judges have varying opinions of what the perfect dog would look like. 

The closest you could come is to go to the Kennel Club of your choice.... AKC, Canadian Kennel Club, (in my case, the Kennel Club UK) and see the picture that they have drawn up of your breed of choice and that is probably as close as you are going to get to what the perfect dog looks like, but even that is someones representation of what they think is perfect.... 

Its very subjective... I don't think any of us could generalize like that 

I could put up a picture of what I THINK the perfect golden looks like... and that is likely to be very different from what Pointgold or anyone else would put up and if they put up a picture it is likely to be different from someone else.... 
i hope that helps


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## Pointgold

Shalva said:


> I actually find that rather sad as I find fronts to be absolutely appalling and if you are saying that the fronts are better than the rears... I can't even imagine what the rears look like..... as a whole I find rears to be far better than fronts... the problem is that you can hide a bad front under a whole lotta hair... the only way to really tell is to get your hands on the dog... so many of the pictures of showdogs that I see.... there is a whole lot of rough but no front angulation....
> 
> I guess having a good front is a matter of perspective.... I am used to seeing outstanding fronts so what I view as a good front may be different from what someone else views as a good front.
> 
> hard to explain I guess


I'm quite sure that we are seeing different dogs. 
I'm saying this based on hands on.


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## Gwen

arcane said:


> Well I'll add one dog that I have personally seen that has a wonderful front assembly and is consistently throwing this is his get
> 
> Ambertru's Grand Funk "Rhodie"


That's Nyg's daddy & I agree! I do think that comes from Rhodie's Dad after spending last Saturday with Ace!


----------



## Ljilly28

telsmith1 said:


> One of my fave's that I met this weekend, he is gorgeous:
> 
> Flag - Am.Can.U-GR Ch. Malagold's Wave To The Flag BISS


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cEinW3o5Pg

Is this Malagold's Wave To The FLAG?


----------



## DNL2448

I co-own a Steamer daughter and she is a hot rod. Could do about anything (except the breed ring-not enough bone), she is at a professional trainer right now. We'll see what she can do.


----------



## Shalva

Pointgold said:


> I'm quite sure that we are seeing different dogs.
> I'm saying this based on hands on.



No I Understand that, I didnt explain myself very well... (been painting the dining room, probably breathing in to many fumes) what I meant is that dependent upon what one is used to seeing might make or break whether one thinks it is a good front... I mean for example I am used to seeing dogs with outstanding fronts... my mentors dogs and many of the dogs that I see out of european and UK lines have really really nice fronts and a good friend of mine and mentor has dogs with just about the most beautiful fronts I have ever seen in any dog... so that is what I am used to seeing... so other folks who aren't as used to seeing these fronts might see some fronts that they think are outstanding but I view as being mediocre at best.... its all perspective and what you are used to seeing... 

When I go to a show... people will rave about dogs with what I would term as terrible fronts (based on what I am used to seeing) but compared to what else is in the ring that dog might have a great front... I guess in my long winded paint fumed way I am just saying its all relative 
s


----------



## Jazzys Mom

Ch Amberac Yer Chips R Taykin SDHF, OS, Multi BISS
Am/Can. Ch. Amberac Dichi Face The Odds Multi BOB
Am/Can/Jap Ch Edgehill Nautilus Calypso Jo WC, OS, SDHF, Multi BIS, BOB
Am/Can CH Chuckanut Party Favour O Novel SDHF OS 
Am. Ch. Dichi Go Unchallenged


----------



## Jazzys Mom

Ljilly28 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cEinW3o5Pg
> 
> Is this Malagold's Wave To The FLAG?


Yes, that is Flag. He is an exceptional Malagold dog. He has Ch Rising Star My Guy in his pedigree. My Flirt's grandpa was Guy. He was magnificent!


----------



## Bogey's Mom

Jazzys Mom said:


> Ch Amberac Yer Chips R Taykin SDHF, OS, Multi BISS
> Am/Can. Ch. Amberac Dichi Face The Odds Multi BOB
> Am/Can/Jap Ch Edgehill Nautilus Calypso Jo WC, OS, SDHF, Multi BIS, BOB
> Am/Can CH Chuckanut Party Favour O Novel SDHF OS
> Am. Ch. Dichi Go Unchallenged


You picked Dichi's Victor too. Isn't he beautiful?


----------



## Jazzys Mom

OMG! If I don't get a Victor puppy I'll just lay down and die! When I first saw Victor it was at the International show here in Chicago about 4 years ago. I told my hubby I was going to run into the ring and snatch Victor - he should go start the car for a quick get away. I have since told Dick that if Victor is even missing check my house, he would be here playing with Jazzy and Sunny!


----------



## Bogey's Mom

It appears that Victor just sired a litter, no? I love this picture of him. With so many beautiful dogs out there, it's no wonder people can't have just one. There are two stud dogs right now that if they had litters coming due I would scoop up puppies in a heartbeat. Especially if they were matched with some of my favorite females. 

Since they are all here in the midwest maybe it's not such a far-fetched dream.  Oh my poor husband! But we keep saying having an Ace and/or Birdie around would be fun for Bogey.


----------



## Jazzys Mom

Victor is gorgeous! I just love his color. Well, since you have a Bogey you just have to have at least a birdie! lol


----------



## arcane

peeps said:


> can't wait to see the pics for this one lol - I find that everyone has a slightly different skew on what they find perfect and expect your request will draw a variety of photos!


I guess by the lack of submissions no one thinks they have the ideal  I'll add as close as I have come, not perfect but it's there! ........


----------



## arcane

Gwen said:


> That's Nyg's daddy & I agree! I do think that comes from Rhodie's Dad after spending last Saturday with Ace!


Sorry Gwen Ace is Brooke's Daddy not Rhodie's ....


----------



## K9-Design

Bogey's Mom said:


> It appears that Victor just sired a litter, no? I love this picture of him.


I believe that's the picture of the dam in the litter ad.


----------



## Bogey's Mom

K9-Design said:


> I believe that's the picture of the dam in the litter ad.


Oh really?? Oops! I don't know how to go back and delete it. But thank you for pointing that out. I must have misread it.


----------



## arcane

Shalva said:


> When I go to a show... people will rave about dogs with what I would term as terrible fronts (based on what I am used to seeing) but compared to what else is in the ring that dog might have a great front... I guess in my long winded paint fumed way I am just saying its all relative


and it is very much dependent upon whether one *knows *a good front or not  I have seen many people rave about dogs, that have the most upright shoulders with no return of upper arm,  and hugely exaggerated rears :uhoh: "oh but they are flashy!" thanks but no thanks, I'll choose a more moderate, unknown, balanced Dog over that in a heartbeat!


----------



## arcane

*Teddy*

Now this boy was a beautiful example of the breed imo...others may have differing opinions 
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=626


----------



## arcane

*Boss Hog*

I also adored this boy! 
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=8759


----------



## DelmarvaGold

arcane said:


> and it is very much dependent upon whether one *knows *a good front or not  I have seen many people rave about dogs, that have the most upright shoulders with no return of upper arm,  and hugely exaggerated rears :uhoh: "oh but they are flashy!" thanks but no thanks, I'll choose a more moderate, unknown, balanced Dog over that in a heartbeat!


I couldn't agree more!


----------



## DelmarvaGold

arcane said:


> Now this boy was a beautiful example of the breed imo...others may have differing opinions
> http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=626


I have always loved this boy. And look at the gorgeous length of neck.


----------



## DelmarvaGold

arcane said:


> I also adored this boy!
> http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=8759


Yep...another nice one. As far as stud dogs go, they sure don't make them like they use too


----------



## arcane

DelmarvaGold said:


> Yep...another nice one. As far as stud dogs go, they sure don't make them like they use too


Yup......If I could just turn back the clock a few years :


----------



## GoldenBrand

I can only talk about Brazil and for me it's a Top 3. You can just check the offspring of those dogs, it's pretty amazing!

1. Freedom of Golden Spirit
http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=177893

2. Nautilus Fox Mulder
http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=78665

3. Woodspoint Bo Zack
http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=51808


----------



## telsmith1

Ljilly28 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cEinW3o5Pg
> 
> Is this Malagold's Wave To The FLAG?


Jill, That sure looks like him, lol. He has such a gorgeous face. I have some pics of him on my cell phone. Phyllis (his owner) and I hung out at the UKC MI Classic show in Kalamazoo a few weekends ago.


----------



## Ljilly28

DNL2448 said:


> I co-own a Steamer daughter and she is a hot rod. Could do about anything (except the breed ring-not enough bone), she is at a professional trainer right now. We'll see what she can do.



Oh, you are lucky!!!! I have a world of respect for those genes.


----------



## Ljilly28

buckeyegoldenmom said:


> My favorites:
> 
> Summits Mr Bojangles
> 
> Klassems Zoom Zoom Zoom
> 
> Daybreak Varsity Jump
> 
> Faera's Starlight
> 
> Of course I am prejudiced for dogs that my boys both come from!


Is Star still alive http://passionforgold.homestead.com/Star.html?


----------



## BearValley

peeps said:


> I like Cutter - *Am./Can. Ch. Sunjoie 'n Woodland Anyway U Slice It CanSDHF* -I have recently seen some video and new pics - WOWSERS. Ho is a gorgeous boy and I like what I see him passing on to his babies!!!


:rockon:

I am biased here...he sired my litter and therefore my "Piper". I like him and I love how my puppies turned out. He is even more gorgeous in "person".

I'm impressed with how much bone Piper has.

Here they are getting _a little too wild_ and therefore getting a correction from mom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd4tngoMxhk


----------



## SunGold

Ljilly28 said:


> Is Star still alive http://passionforgold.homestead.com/Star.html?


Yes, I believe so.


----------



## Conquerergold

arcane said:


> Now this boy was a beautiful example of the breed imo...others may have differing opinions
> http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=626


 
I would agree Heather! Teddy is one of my all time Fav's!!!

Cheers
Rob


----------



## molmotta

Okie... question time. Sorry if they sound silly, but what does it mean when it is said:
1) upright shoulders with no return of upper arm, 
2) hugely exaggerated rears
3) ewe neck?


----------



## Shalva

arcane said:


> and it is very much dependent upon whether one *knows *a good front or not  I have seen many people rave about dogs, that have the most upright shoulders with no return of upper arm,  and hugely exaggerated rears :uhoh: "oh but they are flashy!" thanks but no thanks, I'll choose a more moderate, unknown, balanced Dog over that in a heartbeat!


I totally agree and this is what I was commenting on earlier (like 3 pages back) many folks have no idea of what a good front looks like and movement well lets be honest alot of winning dogs have flashy but incorrect movement. I personally want a good moderate honest dog any day....


----------



## K9-Design

molmotta said:


> Okie... question time. Sorry if they sound silly, but what does it mean when it is said:
> 1) upright shoulders with no return of upper arm,
> 2) hugely exaggerated rears
> 3) ewe neck?


Okay, I did a very quick google search and this was the best thing I could come up with to illustrate:








1) Two major structures of the front assembly are the shoulder blade ("scapula" in the photo) and "upper arm" ("humerus" in the photo). These two bones meet at the "point of shoulder" and of course, the other end of the humerus or upper arm is the elbow. The angle the scapula and humerus make when the dog is standing relaxed, is different for every dog. Also, how far forward (toward the head) or back (against the ribcage) the entire front assembly are positioned also factors in.
Basically, when someone says a dog has an "upright shoulder" they are meaning that the scapula forms a more vertical angle to the ground. This will make the upper point of the scapula point upward, and closer to the ears. This a lot of times is accompanied by a humerus (upper arm) that is also more upright, meaning there is a very wide angle between shoulder blade and humerus.
Now, the problem with this is that these angles form the anchor for the muscles of the front limbs. With a wider, more horizontal angle, there is more room for the muscles to anchor -- you get more muscle, more power, more efficient, powerful movement, which for a working dog like a retriever, is very important. With a more upright or straighter front, less area to anchor muscles, less musculature, meaning the dog has to work harder to cover the same amount of ground. This is why we want a tighter, more angled front. We want both the scapula AND humerus to make a nearly 45 degree angle with the ground (obviously, pointing in opposite directions), so that they meet each other at about a 90* angle. Now, this is actually more theoretical than practical, very very few dogs have a perfect 45* shoulder and accompanying 45* upper arm, if a dog had angles of about 35-40* we would be very happy. 
In practicality, judges do not sit around and measure angles, rather they feel for a shoulder that is "well laid back" (the tips of the shoulder blades pointing back toward the rear of the dog, close together, tightly knit at the tips), with a smooth transition from the neck to the shoulders and topline. They want the shoulder to be back against the ribcage and not up under the dogs ears! They want to feel for an upper arm that has a good sweeping angle from the point of shoulder to the elbow, so that the elbow is well under the dog's body (this is called the "return of upper arm" -- to better support the weight of the front end). Together these form a strong scaffolding for muscle, leading to efficient and powerful movement.
2) I suppose by "Exaggerated rears" they mean one with a good deal of angle of the thigh and stifle. Compare the swoopy, long rear legs of a German Shepherd as opposed to a very upright chow chow. The golden retriever should have moderate angulation of the rear, the angles should match the angles of the front assembly. The problem with too MUCH is that the dog's rear end will outpace the front, the dog will literally not be able to get out of his own way, and he will crab (twist his body while moving so his back legs won't hit the front ones as they converge under the body), or move his front like a hackney pony to get the front legs out of the way of his over-reaching back legs. The problem is, it's much easier to breed rear angles into a dog than front angles, and sometimes dogs with lot of rear angle are very flashy, fast and high stepping --although incorrect-- movers. People mistake flash for soundness and inadvertently breed for this. 
3) "Ewe neck" refers to a dog who's neck bows in a concave manner, rather than crested up like a stallion (sorry, this was the best reference I could think of). Indicates a week neck and topline. For a breed that makes his living carrying 10 lb birds around, a strong, stable neck is absolutely essential. 

Hope this helps!


----------



## peeps

Great diagram!


----------



## Conquerergold

I would urge anyone interested in learning more about correct Golden construction, visit the GRCC Illustrated Breed Standard
http://www.grcc.net/GRCCIllustratedBreedStandard.pdf

Cheers
Rob


----------



## goldengirls550

Conquerergold said:


> I would urge anyone interested in learning more about correct Golden construction, visit the GRCC Illustrated Breed Standard
> http://www.grcc.net/GRCCIllustratedBreedStandard.pdf
> 
> Cheers
> Rob


Good reference. I've seen this before.


----------



## molmotta

Great explanation!! Thanks Anney!! That cleared some cobwebs in my head...


----------



## grcharlie

I got to say I am bias to Yogi. He is Sallys grandpa.


----------



## Bryana

Yes! Thank you! I can't stand those people (judges in particular) who search and search and search for fronts but wouldn't recognize one if it smacked them in the face. I can't stand a weak back on a dog either. I don't care how much front drive and rear extension the animal has, if it can't hold it's topline I don't like it. 

That being said there is nothing that I really feel is spectacular as a stud dog. I like Zoom but I don't like the worried expression he stamps on his kids. Man, that dog can move though... I remember gaiting him in the driveway...he put his head down and drove forward. Its quite amazing to watch. He's also a consistent producer so that alone should stamp him as good stud dog. Hmm...who else is there....

Johnny Bee. That Goodtime dog. He's solid, sweet and balanced. No glaring fault except his tail. I've seen a 2 litters out of him, all puppies are beautiful. My kinda dogs. I don't really know if you can count him as a stud dog just yet. He has been a special until this year. I love him though and I love what he has produced so far.


----------



## Gwen

That being said there is nothing that I really feel is spectacular as a stud dog. I like Zoom but I don't like the worried expression he stamps on his kids. Man, that dog can move though... I remember gaiting him in the driveway...he put his head down and drove forward. Its quite amazing to watch. He's also a consistent producer so that alone should stamp him as good stud dog. Hmm...who else is there....



Worried expression? This is Ch. Ambertru's Razz Razz Metazz @ 8 months out of Zoom. .....and boy, can he move!


----------



## K9-Design

Some people think wrinkles on the forehead give a "worried" expression, with others it's triangular eyes (incorrect). I personally don't think Zoom has either but then again, I've seen him in person but once.


----------



## Bryana

Just about all the Zoom kids I have had my hands on and seen have his expression. It's not so much the wrinkles on the forehead just the way the eyes are set next to the eyebrows. I just don't like Zoom heads...they are not my cup of tea is all. I know plenty of people find them beautiful and I completely respect that.


----------



## arcane

perhaps you can show us an example of the expression you are describing??? I have seen ZOOM kids and don't see what you are stating in either Zoom or his kids


----------



## buckeyegoldenmom

Is this the expression or eye set that you are talking about? Tucker (in pictures) is out of Talon, Zoom's sire. I know he is just my pet, but I always feel he has such expression...that I just want to hug him. But yes I know he is just my pet. And in the picture, post having had his ears chewed on by puppy Murphy!

DSC00855.JPG

IMG_4068.JPG


----------



## buckeyegoldenmom

trying again to post the pictures!


----------



## Pointgold

buckeyegoldenmom said:


> Is this the expression or eye set that you are talking about? Tucker (in pictures) is out of Talon, Zoom's sire. I know he is just my pet, but I always feel he has such expression...that I just want to hug him. But yes I know he is just my pet. And in the picture, post having had his ears chewed on by puppy Murphy!
> 
> DSC00855.JPG
> 
> IMG_4068.JPG


Oh, _please _don't refer to him as "just" a pet... being a pet is the most noble, important job that any dog will ever have.


----------



## Bogey's Mom

Pointgold said:


> Oh, _please _don't refer to him as "just" a pet... being a pet is the most noble, important job that any dog will ever have.


Amen to that, Laura! :--heart::--heart::--heart:


----------



## buckeyegoldenmom

Pointgold said:


> Oh, _please _don't refer to him as "just" a pet... being a pet is the most noble, important job that any dog will ever have.


Thank you and I agree to that, but I do think he has a look of concern on his face. But maybe because he is MY pet and My love, I think it is a wonderful form of expression that I see in his face.

And I agree Bryana, we all have individual likes and dislikes or rather preferences in goldens.


----------



## timberwolf

Timber is a Zoom grandson - out of Stormynights It's A Wild Ride.
I don't think the look is worried......we like to call him "The Thinker".
He likes to look at the world and ponder :scratchch (That's the second pic!)
And when there is food involved, he has a totally different look as well


----------



## timberwolf

Whoops!! Posted Twice.
First day with the new brain!


----------



## buckeyegoldenmom

timberwolf said:


> Timber is a Zoom grandson - out of Stormynights It's A Wild Ride.
> I don't think the look is worried......we like to call him "The Thinker".
> He likes to look at the world and ponder :scratchch (That's the second pic!)
> And when there is food involved, he has a totally different look as well


The second picture! I see that one a lot in Tucker. The thinker! I like that!


----------



## beccacc31

I would like an expert to tell me about "Fabio" as a stud.


----------



## tippykayak

timberwolf said:


> I don't think the look is worried......we like to call him "The Thinker".


My Ajax's grandsire (Sand Dancer's Super Nova) was actually named "Rodin" because of that "thinker" look. I love it.


----------



## Acadia GR

Definately Zoom and Mulder.


----------



## Laura Way

Shalva said:


> No I Understand that, I didnt explain myself very well... (been painting the dining room, probably breathing in to many fumes) what I meant is that dependent upon what one is used to seeing might make or break whether one thinks it is a good front... I mean for example I am used to seeing dogs with outstanding fronts... my mentors dogs and many of the dogs that I see out of european and UK lines have really really nice fronts and a good friend of mine and mentor has dogs with just about the most beautiful fronts I have ever seen in any dog... so that is what I am used to seeing... so other folks who aren't as used to seeing these fronts might see some fronts that they think are outstanding but I view as being mediocre at best.... its all perspective and what you are used to seeing...
> 
> When I go to a show... people will rave about dogs with what I would term as terrible fronts (based on what I am used to seeing) but compared to what else is in the ring that dog might have a great front... I guess in my long winded paint fumed way I am just saying its all relative
> s


 
I will agree with you 100% on this! My mentors dogs and many dogs I have seen with European lines and UK have the most beatiful fronts too! I also like the lay back, bend of stiffles, and top lines and most of all balance. 

I will have to agree with you on Toffer and Gusty from Marge and many of her past dogs what super type!


----------



## Laura Way

Conquerergold said:


> I would urge anyone interested in learning more about correct Golden construction, visit the GRCC Illustrated Breed Standard
> http://www.grcc.net/GRCCIllustratedBreedStandard.pdf
> 
> Cheers
> Rob


 
I just love this book! I have a copy of it and refer back to it many of times. I also use it in helping new puppy owners or others in education and is one of my recommendations to new puppy owners.


----------



## Jester's Male Human

SunGold said:


> My current top 5 - in no particular order.
> CH Faera's Starlight OS - Have one of his daughters and multiple grandkids. Love their temperament and personalities, fun, bubbly dogs.


Faera's Starlight is another dog that decends from Am Ch Asterling's Buster Keaton OS "Ace." Mary Burke got it right with Ace's litter. Ace sired a lot of nice dogs who, in turn, produced nice offspring. Here's a portrait of of Ace that I found on k9data.com while I was researching my puppy's pedigree (my puppy's sire, Am Ch Delmarva Tell'M U R Innocent "Jesse," also decends from Ace via Faera Goldens).


----------



## CarolinaCasey

Faera's Starlight- is gorgeous. He's in my pup's pedigree as a grandsire on the dam's side.
http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=40824

I just saw these boys recently. Gorgeous... add them to my favs. I have no idea what kind of producers they are, but they themselves are stunning...

CH. Gideon's Red Radio Flyer
Flyer was very friendly and sweet. He wasn't being shown this day- he was a total sweetie. http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=226962

CH. Goodtime's I Rest My Case 
F.Lee was gorgeous moving in the ring. 
http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=252008

You can definitely pick out Zoom kids in the ring. Saw one over the weekend- it was a bitch and she was like a twin to Zoom! I think he is/will be my all time favorite. I'd love a Zoom kid.


----------



## Jester's Male Human

CarolinaCasey said:


> CH. Gideon's Red Radio Flyer
> Flyer was very friendly and sweet. He wasn't being shown this day- he was a total sweetie. http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=226962
> 
> CH. Goodtime's I Rest My Case
> F.Lee was gorgeous moving in the ring.
> http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=252008


Both of those dogs have Ace in their bloodlines. Mary Burke's breeding program (Asterling) seems to have had a profound effect on the breed.


----------



## K9-Design

Jester's Male Human said:


> Both of those dogs have Ace in their bloodlines. Mary Burke's breeding program (Asterling) seems to have had a profound effect on the breed.


That's putting it mildly 

You'd be hard pressed to find a show pedigree that doesn't include Aruba.


----------



## NuttinButGoldens

Never mind. Old thread  Already Answered!



Doolin said:


> From what I have seen in the rings I would have to say that
> Klaasem's Zoom Zoom Zoom, Seeing the movement and head pieces on his kids you couldn't miss them at this years National. I was contemplating breeding one of my girls to him.
> 
> Summit's Mr Bojangles- Almost everything he produces has great movement and temperament. He himself is a wonderful boy. I have spent a few weekends with him and find it hard not to like the old man.
> 
> Highmark Mirasol Once a Knight- His movement and temperament put him at the top of my list. Not too many dogs that have proven themselves as he has.
> 
> Pebwin XPDNC- From the few kids of his that I have seen, structure is really exceptional. I had one of his daughters staying here for a couple months, what a wonderful girl with the nicest front and shortest loin I have felt on a golden.
> 
> Dewmist Davenport- While English in "style" I love the structure on his pups. While they might be quite wild, I had a grandson of his who was the sweetest boy you'll ever meet. Also look at what he has produced in the joint area a lot of "excellents" wouldn't it be nice if there were more dogs producing like this!
> (These would be the dogs on the North American Continent top 5 for me)
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to say Eirene's Soul Provider but I just saw that he passed away.


----------



## NuttinButGoldens

The great thing about science is he will probably be having pups for many years yet 



Kohanagold said:


> I'm still giving this some thought... one of my top 5 recently passed away too.
> 
> I hadn't heard that Tommy passed, but then went and looked on k9data and saw it was just today (and his birthday). Sad.... RIP Tom.
> 
> BJ


----------



## Jester's Male Human

K9-Design said:


> That's putting it mildly
> 
> You'd be hard pressed to find a show pedigree that doesn't include Aruba.


 Does anyone know how many champions the Am. CH Birnam Wood's Mountin' Ash OS x BISS BIS Am Can CH Amberac's Asterling Aruba OD SDHF “Buster” litter produced? So far, I have identified three champions from this litter.

Am CH Asterling's Buster Keaton OS "Ace" (1/6/1985 - 8/5/1997)
BISS Am CH Asterling Go Getm Gangbuster OS SDHF "Tristan" (1/6/1985 - 3/13/1997)
Am CH Asterling's Just Buster Loose CD OD "Keely"(1/6/1985-2/19/1997)


----------



## K9-Design

Jester's Male Human said:


> Does anyone know how many champions the Am. CH Birnam Wood's Mountin' Ash OS x BISS BIS Am Can CH Amberac's Asterling Aruba OD SDHF “Buster” litter produced? So far, I have identified three champions from this litter.
> 
> Am CH Asterling's Buster Keaton OS "Ace" (1/6/1985 - 8/5/1997)
> BISS Am CH Asterling Go Getm Gangbuster OS SDHF "Tristan" (1/6/1985 - 3/13/1997)
> Am CH Asterling's Just Buster Loose CD OD "Keely"(1/6/1985-2/19/1997)


Don't strain yourself, this info is at your fingertips 

http://www.k9data.com/siblings.asp?ID=761


----------



## rappwizard

That Aruba was one heckuva producer--I don't think any other female golden has ever produced as many champions as she has--she may hold the record for all breeds!


----------



## Jamm

peeps said:


> Hmmmmm this will require some research! But one that immediately comes to mind is Zoom
> *BIS/BISS Can./Am. Ch. Klaasem's Zoom Zoom Zoom Can. SDHF, Can./Am. OS (3/8/2003-) who for such a young man has accomplished much. *He is said to be a moderate dog and although I haven't seen him in person I have heard the this alot. He has produced some beautiful babies of a variety of types and has been bred to a variety of bitches. Out of these litters has come BIS and BISS offspring as well as babies with numerous titles at the other end of their names! Zoom has also recently become an outstanding sire - in both Canada and the US !! He is in my opinion a beautiful valuable asset to many breeding programs! - including mine some day!


Zoom is Joey's grandfather! Zoom was bred to my breeders bitch Tang (Can CH. Ambertru's Rize N Shine OD (7/10/2002-)) and produced Joey's father Logan (Am. Can. Ch. Ambertru's Hard 2B Humble).


----------



## Jester's Male Human

K9-Design said:


> Don't strain yourself, this info is at your fingertips
> 
> http://www.k9data.com/siblings.asp?ID=761


Aruba was an amazing Golden.

http://www.k9data.com/offspring.asp?ID=59


----------



## Loisiana

K9-Design said:


> That's putting it mildly
> 
> You'd be hard pressed to find a show pedigree that doesn't include Aruba.


I'd never heard of Aruba (don't follow show lines much) but I went back and looked and sure enough she's back there in Flip's pedigree (far back). Her grandson James is Flip's great-grandfather.


----------



## Ljilly28

Right now, I am really loving Chaos puppies, and if I didnt have a golden full house, there are two Chaos litters that are currently making me drool. http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=106827

I adore my Ryder puppy from Ash: (Hytrees Ryd-N-Out The Storm) as he is bright, sound, beautiful baby with bone & coat galore. 

I still really like the sons & daughters of Casanova, Nautilus Purple Passion- their overall balance, their beautiful movement, the bubbly animated temperament.


----------



## AquaClaraCanines

I'll have to agree, he's got some really nice babies with nice fronts too


----------



## SunGold

AquaClaraCanines said:


> I'll have to agree, he's got some really nice babies with nice fronts too


Who is this??


----------



## K9-Design

SunGold said:


> Who is this??


It is a Chaos kid, I think CH Gaia of Yoshida Enterprise
CHaos kids are #1, 2, 3 in goldens right now, amazing


----------



## AquaClaraCanines

I don't think it is Gaia but it is a Chaos kid


----------



## SunGold

K9-Design said:


> It is a Chaos kid, I think CH Gaia of Yoshida Enterprise
> CHaos kids are #1, 2, 3 in goldens right now, amazing


Very nice!


----------



## BeckyB

I have a dog by CH. Lycinans Big Bang CDX JH, and he is just amazing so..... I would love to have another puppy by him, someone
in my club just bred there really nice bitch to him.....very tempting 

I also love Yogi, A friend of mine has a bitch by him and shes very nice.


----------



## Selli-Belle

Jumping in on this thread even though I have not read all of it. 

Personally, I wanted to breed Selli to Skipper (Meadowpond Nautical Asset), I thought he would work very well with my girl. I of course love Beau (Meadowpond Grand Beaujolais) who has produced some great agility pups, he would not work as well with Sell (neither have much coat), but any pups would have had beautiful heads. 

But my new favorite stud is Goldencol's Come Fly With Me. Beautiful, Beautiful dog with so many achievements. Since I am not breeding Selli, I guess it doesn't matter he doesn't seem to have much coat himself.


----------



## luvagolden

I am going to have to say Erinderry Just the Ticket- he is outstanding and always produces nice offspring, Gunhill's Gamemaster & Shardanell Castaspell


----------



## K9-Design

Carolyn I roomed with Deb & Flyer this weekend at the Canadian nat'l and handled him in Gun Dog Class...cool guy!!! Moderate in every sense of the word.


----------



## HiTideGoldens

Just found out that CH Gaia of Yoshida Enterprise took Best in Show this weekend at the Lompoc Valley Kennel Club show in Lompoc, CA under Judge Sandra Goose Allen.


----------



## dmsl

Ok guys...I'm going to show my ignorance here & ask a few questions! I'm very new (as in only ever had pets - not from the show world) to this...but so very glad to have found this forum & all you experts!

We have one of Yogi's puppies...but he is a show drop out due to his curled tail. It curls backwards over his back. He's of course perfect in our world....we adore him & one day would probably love to add another pup from Yogi. Here's the question...is it common for this to happen to some of the pups from great names? Where they have a cosmetic "flaw" then are sold to "regular" folks as pets? And, later, how would we find out about any other Yogi pups or grandpups?

He's just passed his CGC & I'm getting him certified in a therapy group. I'm a stay at home mom & last child going to kinder this year! So, this will be a great time for us to start volunteering & visit facilites. May even start one of the reading groups with therapy dogs at my daughters school.

Thanks for any input & sorry if this is kinda hi-jacking the thread...just thought it'd go along "sorta kinda"!


----------



## Bender

Minor things like that do happen, hard to say if it's from dad or mom (or grandpa, great grandpa, or a fluke!). Which is why some pups go to show homes, and some to pet homes. Doesn't mean there's anything major wrong with your dog at all - some dogs go to pet homes, grow up really nice and get shown later! Or the breeder doesn't have enough show homes..... anyway enjoy your boy. The odds of a 'flaw' increase only because they have so many kids of course too.

You are likely to find lots of Yogi grandkids out there anyway, he's a popular guy!

Lana


----------



## ckp

Doolin said:


> *Summit's Mr Bojangles*- Almost everything he produces has great movement and temperament. He himself is a wonderful boy. I have spent a few weekends with him and find it hard not to like the old man.





Ash said:


> *Summits Mr Bojangles* - One of greatest producers IMO, all round gorgeous dog, Kali's grandsire





buckeyegoldenmom said:


> My favorites:*Summits Mr Bojangles*


 This is Nascar's DAD!!!  Nascar is so awesome....he inherited some good genes!! See the resemblance?? 

*"HOBO"  BIS* Ch. Summit's Mr. Bojangles OS SDHF 
Honorifics: *3 x Natl BOB Winner - 2003 & 2004 & 2006 / 10 BIS*


----------



## GoldenSail

Does anyone know how well Mariner is producing? I like him from afar....

And of course, I think some day we may need to add Tito to this list if he ever gets a little frisky...


----------



## K9-Design

dmsl said:


> We have one of Yogi's puppies...but he is a show drop out due to his curled tail. It curls backwards over his back. He's of course perfect in our world....we adore him & one day would probably love to add another pup from Yogi. Here's the question...is it common for this to happen to some of the pups from great names? Where they have a cosmetic "flaw" then are sold to "regular" folks as pets? And, later, how would we find out about any other Yogi pups or grandpups?


Did you get Bear as an 8 wk old or did you get him as an older puppy?
Yogi (and his sire, Strider) are known to throw gay tails -- I have seen many a Yogi pup with that tail!! Strider nor Yogi have it but it is in the line. As far as "problems" go that is pretty far down the list, the only problem is that any idiot judge can see it and dump the dog for it, even though it has ZERO impact on the dog's life whether it's a pet or working dog! My older dog Fisher is a Yogi son -- luckily no gay tail at all and he (Fish) doesn't seem to be throwing it, none of his puppies I know of have gay tails.

As far as how you'd find another, you can always email Alison, Yogi's owner (www.mirasol.org) or keep an eye on k9data. There are not a ton of Yogi sons being actively bred.


----------



## hotel4dogs

heehee
Thanks!




GoldenSail said:


> Does anyone know how well Mariner is producing? I like him from afar....
> 
> And of course, I think some day we may need to add Tito to this list if he ever gets a little frisky...


----------



## dmsl

We got Bear at 7 months, after the tail began it's curl! He had been bought for a stud dog/show dog & they decided to have him go to a family home. My hubby and dad always say they hope to come back after they die as one of my dogs! Spoiled & loved more than they are now! haha! He is great for us, kids & adults alike love him to pieces! He just passed his CGC at 15 months. Glad the tail curled or we wouldn't have him!!! However, I'm sure we'd have found many other goldens to love just as much! They're such great people doggies!


----------



## GoldenSail

Ok--isn't gay tails one of those things that can be hard to stamp out in a line? I always thought that was one of the biggest reasons people will exclude those dogs from showing and breeding (not because it is a serious issue), but because it is hard to keep it out once it is there.


----------



## K9-Design

GoldenSail said:


> Ok--isn't gay tails one of those things that can be hard to stamp out in a line? I always thought that was one of the biggest reasons people will exclude those dogs from showing and breeding (not because it is a serious issue), but because it is hard to keep it out once it is there.


Honestly I don't think that's the issue with gay tails. Maybe some long time breeder will set me straight. I think the biggest issue with gay tails is that ANYONE CAN SEE IT. It doesn't take 20 years of breeding or judging or attending seminars to look at a golden and say "Hey his tail is curled up like an akita!" Not so with shoulders, or bad hocks, or return of upper arm -- all things that are not so obvious to the casual onlooker and takes some skill and experience to assess. If something's super obvious then it's easy to diagnose and remember. 
I don't think gay tails plague our breed and really I don't know that many dogs who were washed out from show homes because of it. 
The Yogi kids with gay tails that I know -- it's not a high tail set, they just CARRY it high. They have perfectly good tail set which in my mind is the bigger issue. 
And let me reiterate that it has ZERO impact on a dog as a hunting/working dog.


----------



## HiTideGoldens

GoldenSail said:


> Ok--isn't gay tails one of those things that can be hard to stamp out in a line? I always thought that was one of the biggest reasons people will exclude those dogs from showing and breeding (not because it is a serious issue), but because it is hard to keep it out once it is there.


I've heard the same thing.


----------



## Ljilly28

Two of my breeders debate furiously about gay tails and the function of tails. One says( and backs it up with a book in keeping the canine athlete fit) that the tail is used in swimming like a rudder; the other says that is an old wives' tale( no pun), and that the tail set has no function beyond asthetics. I am curious which is true.


----------



## Loisiana

A breeder in this area was disappointed when the pup she kept came up with a gay tail, but she said it's actually been kind of nice in the field, easier to see her out there with that tail held up in the air.


----------



## K9-Design

Loisiana said:


> A breeder in this area was disappointed when the pup she kept came up with a gay tail, but she said it's actually been kind of nice in the field, easier to see her out there with that tail held up in the air.


Bing, you've got it. 
If tails are rudders in the water, why do half of the Open/AA field trial labs have gay tails, and why do they dock the tails of most of the multipurpose gun dog breeds? (spaniels and some pointing breeds)
It's more aesthetics than functional.


----------



## Kohanagold

K9-Design said:


> Honestly I don't think that's the issue with gay tails. Maybe some long time breeder will set me straight. I think the biggest issue with gay tails is that ANYONE CAN SEE IT. It doesn't take 20 years of breeding or judging or attending seminars to look at a golden and say "Hey his tail is curled up like an akita!" Not so with shoulders, or bad hocks, or return of upper arm -- all things that are not so obvious to the casual onlooker and takes some skill and experience to assess. If something's super obvious then it's easy to diagnose and remember.
> I don't think gay tails plague our breed and really I don't know that many dogs who were washed out from show homes because of it.
> The Yogi kids with gay tails that I know -- it's not a high tail set, they just CARRY it high. They have perfectly good tail set which in my mind is the bigger issue.
> And let me reiterate that it has ZERO impact on a dog as a hunting/working dog.


I really dont know much, but I tend to agree with this. I have seen a lot of gay tails in the show ring (in Canada... dont know about elsewhere) and if I understand correctly, its not a favorable thing (but not something that would exclude a dog), but there are plenty of really nice dogs with gay tails. And yes, anyone can see it. I think that's exactly it, in that all that other stuff IS hard to see with an untrained eye. I have also been told (though unsure if its true) that you can train a dog to not carry their tail so high. I think that was a comment that was made when Sydney was in the rings about another dog the handler was showing. Perfectly nice tailset there too. I find this very interesting though.


----------



## hotel4dogs

Richard Beauchamp has written some interesting stuff about gay tails in goldens, and why it's incorrect. I believe it's in his book about breed type, but could be wrong.
I have noticed, on a different note, that a golden in search of a bird tends to carry its tail straight up while on the hunt. But to me, that's totally different from the curled over the back gay tail.


----------



## Pointgold

A tail held gay can affect movement.


----------



## Loisiana

My poor Annabel has such a gay tail. It curls over just as much as the Lhasa Apso's. Since she was my first dog I thought it was normal. Then I found out she's just a really poorly bred dog.


----------



## K9-Design

Pointgold said:


> A tail held gay can affect movement.


Can you explain how? I am curious as I've never heard this.
I realize gay tails are NOT TYPEY and I certainly am not dismissing them but I feel in the scheme of things they are mainly an aesthetic feature and not strictly form following function. (And by gay tail I see that as anything carried vertical or curling over the back -- an extreme curled "gay tail" like a chow or samoyed, well, I just have never seen that in goldens.)


----------



## Pointgold

K9-Design said:


> Can you explain how? I am curious as I've never heard this.
> I realize gay tails are NOT TYPEY and I certainly am not dismissing them but I feel in the scheme of things they are mainly an aesthetic feature and not strictly form following function. (And by gay tail I see that as anything carried vertical or curling over the back -- an extreme curled "gay tail" like a chow or samoyed, well, I just have never seen that in goldens.)


The effort necessary to carry the tail high over the back inhibits a dog from moving freely and can also lessen stamina somewhat. I am referring to a dog that is supposed to have a tail that is an extension of his topline - level, as opposed to one that is set on high - and carrying it high over the back - it takes effort to do so. Think about yourself running, holding your arms over your head, rather than swinging freeling at your sides (maybe not the _greatest_ example, but you should get what I mean.)


----------



## tippykayak

Pointgold said:


> The effort necessary to carry the tail high over the back inhibits a dog from moving freely and can also lessen stamina somewhat. I am referring to a dog that is supposed to have a tail that is an extension of his topline - level, as opposed to one that is set on high - and carrying it high over the back - it takes effort to do so. Think about yourself running, holding your arms over your head, rather than swinging freeling at your sides (maybe not the _greatest_ example, but you should get what I mean.)


Having a dog with a gay tail that's not extreme but is clearly present, I completely agree. Jax has a gay tail, unlike other dogs I've had, and even though he's generally very well put together otherwise, I can see the difference in his movement compared to my other dogs who have good structure and lack that flaw.

It makes his gait just a bit higher and prancier than is correct in a Golden, and in a full out run, he's every so slightly slower than Comet, who's less intense but better structured. When Comet goes full speed, his topline is amazingly even. When Jax goes full speed, there's more up and down movement in the process. It wastes energy.

It absolutely interferes with proper and efficient movement. Seeing a dog with a gay tail run next to a dog with proper tailset has really convinced me of that. I don't think it's as big an impediment to good movement as many other things, but I feel pretty confident that it matters.

In the water, he holds it like the other dogs, and though he's not as fast as Comet in swimming, I chalk that up to experience more than to structure. So I'm not sure about the rudder theory, but I'm pretty confident that a properly set tail is an important piece of a dog's movement.

As a side note, I've heard from a breeder I trust that it's hard to breed an improper tail back out of a line once it's there.


----------



## tippykayak

That said, I do agree that Jax and other dogs with this issue are still fit for any hard physical activity, and he's a brilliant, driven dog. Comet happens to have extraordinary structure, and I've never seen a dog work less hard to move so fast. So watching him next to Jax, who's a great athlete in is own right, has been a real education in the importance of great structure in a working dog.

Obviously, Jax's tail is not the only structural difference between him and Comet, but I've seen many of their relatives move, and what I have seen makes me think that a gay tail deserves to stay on the "improper" list.


----------



## Loisiana

so if it takes more effort to carry a tail up then why do they do it?


----------



## hotel4dogs

because the musculature causes it to form a curve


----------



## K9-Design

Hmmm....well I don't know if you can compare the movement of two individual dogs and say the reason one is slower or less coordinated is because of a gay tail. No two dogs have the same structure and temperament/drive/whatever you want to call it has a HUGE amount to do with how fast or how athletic a dog appears to be. 
It is an interesting theory though.
The more field work you do the more you realize that the MIND is what drives the dog -- that is the single most important factor of how fast, athletic, and physically capable a dog is. After that the biggest hindrances to efficient performance in a golden are too much bone & bulk, too much coat, and long bodies. The first two are specifically selected for in show goldens, not good. I don't think there are any breeders who would select for high set or gay tails but it happens....it happens in the performance lines because they simply don't care about it aesthetically, and it doesn't affect the physical performance of the dog enough to warrant breeding away from it (see : highly accomplished field trial dogs with gay tails). It happens in show lines because there is a fine line between flashy, tail up and wagging appearance and a gay tail. Okay that's all the rambling I can conjure up on the subject! LOL


----------



## Pointgold

K9-Design said:


> Hmmm....well I don't know if you can compare the movement of two individual dogs and say the reason one is slower or less coordinated is because of a gay tail. No two dogs have the same structure and temperament/drive/whatever you want to call it has a HUGE amount to do with how fast or how athletic a dog appears to be.
> It is an interesting theory though.
> The more field work you do the more you realize that the MIND is what drives the dog -- that is the single most important factor of how fast, athletic, and physically capable a dog is. After that the biggest hindrances to efficient performance in a golden are too much bone & bulk, too much coat, and long bodies. The first two are specifically selected for in show goldens, not good. I don't think there are any breeders who would select for high set or gay tails but it happens....it happens in the performance lines because they simply don't care about it aesthetically, and it doesn't affect the physical performance of the dog enough to warrant breeding away from it (see : highly accomplished field trial dogs with gay tails). It happens in show lines because there is a fine line between flashy, tail up and wagging appearance and a gay tail. Okay that's all the rambling I can conjure up on the subject! LOL


 
Happy, wagging tails, while standing, in show dogs with correct tail sets, and who do not have actual gay tails, generally are carried level or slightly above when on the move.


----------



## tippykayak

K9-Design said:


> Hmmm....well I don't know if you can compare the movement of two individual dogs and say the reason one is slower or less coordinated is because of a gay tail. No two dogs have the same structure and temperament/drive/whatever you want to call it has a HUGE amount to do with how fast or how athletic a dog appears to be.
> It is an interesting theory though.
> The more field work you do the more you realize that the MIND is what drives the dog -- that is the single most important factor of how fast, athletic, and physically capable a dog is. After that the biggest hindrances to efficient performance in a golden are too much bone & bulk, too much coat, and long bodies. The first two are specifically selected for in show goldens, not good. I don't think there are any breeders who would select for high set or gay tails but it happens....it happens in the performance lines because they simply don't care about it aesthetically, and it doesn't affect the physical performance of the dog enough to warrant breeding away from it (see : highly accomplished field trial dogs with gay tails). It happens in show lines because there is a fine line between flashy, tail up and wagging appearance and a gay tail. Okay that's all the rambling I can conjure up on the subject! LOL


For sure, it's not a scientific comparison to put together two dogs, even related ones like Jax and Comet, and draw any definitive conclusions. As I said, there are many other structural differences between the two dogs besides tailset. Jax is younger, and his movement may continue to tighten up as he ages.

In terms of mind, Jax is more birdy, more intense, more stoic, and more competitive. Currently, he's also slightly slower than Comet. I agree with you about the importance of drive, but when two dogs are pretty much giving their all, the faster one is going to be the that is put together better, and the one with more endurance is going to be the one with the most energy devoted to forward motion and the least wasted on extraneous movement. A huge amount of the breed standard for proper structure is about proportions that engender efficient movement.

It's not a scientific comparison, but I do think that proper tailset is part of what makes Comet a more efficient, faster dog than Jax. A gay tail can be part of a pretty significant change in the line of the spine and in the movement of the rear end. And that's in a dog like Jax whose tail isn't very curled, just up higher than it's supposed to be. It's very pretty, but I think the standard is quite wise to exclude it. There are things in the standard that are really just about look (pigment, mismarks, etc.), but I think the tailset is more important.


----------



## hotel4dogs

perhaps we need a definition and/or photo of gay tail.
I have understood it to mean (and your post leads me to believe I'm correct ) a tail that actually curls over the back, more similar to the northern breeds. 
Am I right?




Pointgold said:


> Happy, wagging tails, while standing, in show dogs with correct tail sets, and who do not have actual gay tails, generally are carried level or slightly above when on the move.


----------



## GoldenSail

K9-Design said:


> The more field work you do the more you realize that the MIND is what drives the dog -- that is the single most important factor of how fast, athletic, and physically capable a dog is. After that the biggest hindrances to efficient performance in a golden are too much bone & bulk, too much coat, and long bodies.


This reminds me of Paige Eliot's DogSteps where they show a dalmation just a few days after hip surgery keeping up with the carriage. She makes the statement to the effect that the desire of the dog will often carry it further than the body is able to.


----------



## Honeybelles Dad

a newbie here...and now a tad concerned as I am going to be looking at a Yogi litter soon. When does this gay tail show itself...as the dog matures or can you see it when its a pup??? Have never seen a golden with a curled up tail.


----------



## Ljilly28

Yogi just won veteran 12+ at the Golden Retriever National Specialty

And for Ryder: his daughter Chloe, BIS BISS GCH CH Summits Emery Its In The Bag SDHF, won the Top Twenty Gala.


----------



## AmbikaGR

Honeybelles Dad said:


> a newbie here...and now a tad concerned as I am going to be looking at a Yogi litter soon. When does this gay tail show itself...as the dog matures or can you see it when its a pup??? Have never seen a golden with a curled up tail.



Hi! :wavey:

It is not usually seen in a young pup but as it matures and is almost always obvious by the time the pup is 6 months old.

But trust me, if a gay tail is the worst you have to be concerned about be THRILLED!!! It does not affect quality of life in anyway and is basically a aesthetic issue. I know of some great performance dogs with a gay tail. JMHO


----------



## Loisiana

unless you are looking for a show dog, I really wouldn't be concerned at all about a possible gay tail, especially if it's from such a great dog as Yogi.


----------



## timberwolf

Like Hank said, if a gay tail is the worst you have to worry about, consider yourself lucky!!!
Timber has a gay tail  
It is an amazing tail and is quite often the topic of conversation with people when we are out.
When he is out playing with his buds, there is no problem finding him in the long grass :curtain:
Here's a pic of his tail, it isn't the best pic but it shows how he holds his tail when he is playing - he had just turned 1 and was having a blast in the snow!


----------



## jmc

Gosh Timber has an amazing coat for a one year old!


----------



## Sunkota

Zoom had a good showing at the National with his kids -
CH CastleRock Who's the Boss - Best Op
and one of his daughters was Best Puppy from 6-9


----------



## Ljilly28

Hi Cathy! I'm sitting here with a Phyler puppy warming my feet. Your Phlyer is one of my favorites, for sure. We know therapy dog Logan too.


----------



## Sunkota

Ah - Logan is a special girl!!!! So wonderful to see Phlyer kids doing good things.
I bred my Phlyer grand-kid to Zoom - great pups. I hope they end up being as fantastic as Logan.


----------



## dmsl

Wow Timberwolf....that pic of Timber is identical to Bear!!!!! If we'd have been there it'd have been hard to tell who was who!!! Thanks for posting the pic, I have yet to get a good shot of Bear in that position. He's a camera hog & always faces me if he sees me with the camera!


----------



## dmsl

Hi Honeybelles, we got Bear (with a tail just like Timber's pic above) at 7 months from a top breeder in the area who'd bought him for a stud (Yogi's son)....the tail didn't show til about 6 months I think. I know she got him at 8 weeks & had no idea. He was the only one from the litter that I'm aware of with the tail. We ADORE him as a pet & couldn't be happier with his temperment & smarts! We are thankful for the tail or we wouldn't have "landed" him as a pet!! Please don't be hesitant to get a Yogi pup...you can't go wrong!!!


----------



## Ljilly28

Here is Yogi winning Veteran's +12 years at the National


----------



## Debles

Yogi is absolutely gorgeous and could probably beat much younger dogs!


----------



## Ljilly28

Here's Chaos winning Best Of Breed at the 2010 National Specialty


----------



## Honeybelles Dad

Yes...I have to agree with all of you ...and thusly, we have put a deposit on a little Yogi girl... we saw the pups recently, a few days old...so cute. Will keep the posts coming as more info and pics are taken...thanks to all.


----------



## dmsl

Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't wait to see pics of our "half sister" hahaha!!! You WON'T be disappointed!!!!


----------



## StickyToedGeckos

I LOVE yogi... My boy is a Yogi grandson... he does tend to pass on his good looks to his kids & grandkids LOL 

You can see the resemblance here:

Yogi's pedigree (and some pics)

Pedigree: Am. CH OTCH CT; Can. CH Highmark Mirasol Once A Knight VCD4 UDX3 JH MX MXJ WC VCX OS SDHF OBHF

And my boy...










I also have a Mulder/Andy grand daughter.. hoping good things for her too


----------



## Debles

* CH My fav**AM CH HR U-CD Springcreek Everlore All Time Hi CD RN SH WCX VCX BOSS CGC*​





















*e stud dog is now 
*


----------



## Bogey's Mom

You are funny, Deb. But Stoney is mine too! There are lots of us around here who can testify to his awesome pups!


----------



## whiskey creek goldens

I like this dog "SHYANS TAKE A LONG LONG LOOK". He has put several very nice puppies on the ground. Such as the winner of the 9-12 puppy class at the nationals SHYAN’N’TRILOGY’S LEGEND OF SLEEPY HOLLOW. He is not finished yet but is pointed and should finish any time now. He is also a Zoom kid.

I actually have a litter due out of him on Halloween. If it is anything like my first litter sired by him I will have a very hard time choosing a puppy as all of the puppies out of that litter where flawless three are being show and doing very well.

just though I would add my 2 scene worth


----------



## Ryley's Dad

Ok... gotta go with Ryley's real dad.

Tim.... aka Multi BIS & BISS Can Grd Ch. Auburnmist Special Blend WC, AGNJ, AGN, RA (8/6/2006-) Pedigree: Multi BIS & BISS Can Grd Ch. Auburnmist Special Blend WC, AGNJ, AGN, RA

Here is where he won Best of Winners at the 2010 GRCA Nationals in Colorado this year. According to his owner, Wendy Petkau of Auburnmist Golden Retrievers, he beat approx. 470 dogs.


----------



## AKGOLD

Well for the hunt test and field trial people they'll appreciate this:

"Stanley" FC AFC OTCH FTCH AFTCH Can MOTCH TNT's Stanley Steamer UDX, WCX, MH, OBHF, FDHF, OS
Pedigree: FC AFC OTCH FTCH AFTCH Can MOTCH TNT's Stanley Steamer UDX, WCX, MH, OBHF, FDHF, OS

"Eli" 
FC AFC OTCH Topbrass Ascending Elijah OS/FDHF
Pedigree: FC AFC OTCH Topbrass Ascending Elijah OS/FDHF

Had he not passed away this spring:

"Boomer" FC AFC FTCH AFTCH Can. OTCH TNT's Explosion Am. UD, FDHF, OS Cdn FDHF, OBHF
Pedigree: FC AFC FTCH AFTCH Can. OTCH TNT's Explosion Am. UD, FDHF, OS Cdn FDHF, OBHF


----------



## hotel4dogs

AKGOLD, those are some GREAT dogs.


----------



## AKGOLD

hotel4dogs

I currently have a 3 yr old out of a son of Eli = Half Moon Ascending Starblaze "Blaze". Once the results come back from OFA and she has her SH, beginning her MH I will be contacting TNT to breed her with Stanley


----------



## hotel4dogs

would love to see her k9 data link, if you have one!


----------



## AKGOLD

Pedigree: Topbrass Atigun Flyer

She's soaking wet in the photo, just finished her first senior pass. She is currently being worked by Doug Shade at Minoggie Kennels in Oregon.


----------



## hotel4dogs

whew, what a pedigree!! beautiful dog. Can she pass a CCA? You might think of entering her in one if you can locate one not too far away. Good to have her "certified" as being to the standard before breeding her. She looks lovely.


----------



## AKGOLD

Thank You,
She is all you want in a golden, high energy, loving, and birdy as all get out!

If you go back to the 5 generation pedigree it gets pretty entertaining. I created a test breeding out of curiosity for the litter I proposed and it would contain 11 dogs with an OTCH of one form or another and Topbrass Cotton would be in the lineage 3 times. Regarding a CCA, I am not certain as she is field bred and currently she is a body of muscle. If you take a look at my photos you will see a picture from roughly a month ago.


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## Loisiana

We have another forum member with a Topbrass girl named Piper


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## AKGOLD

Loisiana,

I believe I saw her dogs name, if I recall properly it is an 09 Topbrass breeding, IOWAGOLD??? Jackie has bred some wonderful goldens.


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## sterregold

AKGOLD said:


> Regarding a CCA, I am not certain as she is field bred and currently she is a body of muscle. If you take a look at my photos you will see a picture from roughly a month ago.


They do not have to be show style dogs to get a CCA. My light boned, close-coated partially field bred girl got hers with higher scores than my Can/UKC CH/GRCC NAtioanl Specialty JAM dog! As long as they are in size and the bones are in the right places they should qualify.


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## GoldenSail

I did a search recently on k9data and found this young boy

Pedigree: Can CH OTCH Animation's A Matter of Fact Can MH WCX AGI AGIJ VCX

The only one listed as having a CH OTCH MH (canadian) and all by the age of 3 and the first golden for his owner. Pretty impressive. I wonder what he will produce if he's bred. Anyone know anything about him?


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## sterregold

I know Marti and his owner Don. They are a great team. Don plays the games with him because he likes the challenge, and working with his dog. Marti is a handsome boy, too. He has been entirely trained and handled by his owner except for his Ch which was a little out of Don's comfort zone. I do not believe he is being offered at stud currently as they want to watch the iris cysts that showed up on his last eye exam as noted on his current CERF. He is aware that PU could be an issue with this line so is taking a cautious approach. I think that is commendable as with what Marti has accomplished Don could have easily enough just put him out there, and there would have been people who would have used him.


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## hotel4dogs

I hugely commend Don for his waiting to see what happens with Marti's eyes.


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## Codybaby

Everyone on this thread seems to have a great eye for dogs. Can some of you give me your opinion on Buffet? 

Our Boys - Hillock Goldens - Golden Retrievers - Ligonier, Pennsylvania
(scroll down a bit)

He'll be breeding with Raisin who I love (Raisin - Hillock Goldens - Golden Retrievers - Ligonier, Pennsylvania)

I'm crossing my fingers that some pups in the litter will look a lot like raisin (particularly face). Is it important for me to love both the dam and the sire? Or is usually just one sufficient? I'm not a huge fan of the sire's face. Any opinions with people having this experience is greatly appreciated!


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## vleffingwell

I am getting a show pup from his brother - Zoom is not producing as many per litter as he was - I fear he is not going to breed much any longer


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## Gwen

vleffingwell said:


> I am getting a show pup from his brother - Zoom is not producing as many per litter as he was - I fear he is not going to breed much any longer


I understand (via the grapevine) that Zoom is having some health issues. 

Here's an interesting litter due in October out of my boy Razz who is Zoom's son 


http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=433496


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## vleffingwell

What is the procedure for getting a puppy from Canada into the US?


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## Ljilly28

Do you mean flying or driving? I have discovered it makes a big difference. Both are doable though.


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## Gwen

Gwen said:


> I understand (via the grapevine) that Zoom is having some health issues.
> 
> Here's an interesting litter due in October out of my boy Razz who is Zoom's son
> 
> 
> Pedigree: Currie x Razz


Sorry but wrong bitch used. Here's the bitch Ch. Ambertru's Supernova. Rossi is Currie's sister.


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## Cobblestonegoldens

*stud dogs*

looking for info on stud dogs also.
Good tempereamnet, hips, longevity.
I guess what we all want.


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## Ljilly28

While there are so many gorgeous/accomplished stud dogs, I will definitely go and meet whoever I choose for Lush in person. Temperament is so hard to verify, as a well-managed dog can look really good in public, but still not have the best temperament. That is why I was so pleased with Hobo son,Hero. He can cheerfully play with puppies and intact males even with girls in season around. Since I made the trip to see this with my own eyes, I feel great about him. It is interesting that some breeders are such excellent dog people with such good skills, that temperament flaws can accidently be hidden by smart handling. I am less inclined these days to get "crushes" on faraway dogs, bc I want to see a dog actually relax and play in his own environment. On FB, there was a video of Blue playing with intact boys, girls in season, puppies. . . 15 goldens together. I was really impressed by that, and it sparked my interest to research him for Lushie. FB can give a cool peek and let us get glimpses of dogs in candid situations, and you can see if they are loose and trusted with other dogs. I will even get on a plane to meet boys, lol, but not go by photos, titles, health clearances, and wow factor alone.


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## CarolinaCasey

Ljilly28 said:


> While there are so many gorgeous/accomplished stud dogs, I will definitely go and meet whoever I choose for Lush in person. Temperament is so hard to verify, as a well-managed dog can look really good in public, but still not have the best temperament. That is why I was so pleased with Hobo son,Hero. He can cheerfully play with puppies and intact males even with girls in season around. Since I saw this with my own eyes, I feel great about him. It is interesting that some breeders are such excellent dog people with such good skills, that temperament flaws can accidently be hidden by smart handling. I am less inclined these days to get "crushes" on faraway dogs, bc I want to see a dog actually relax and play in his own environment. On FB, there was a video of Blue playing with intact boys, girls in season, puppies. . . 15 goldens together. I was really impressed by that, and it sparked my interest to research him for Lushie.


I like Blue very much as well. I met him at our specialty this year and he was golden in every sense of the word. His handler, Rusty, was awesome and so was Leah. The front on Blue is amazing...  I'm trying to convince my friend to breed to him someday so I can have a puppy from him. Time shall tell... but I do like him. I've been told he's a little long in body but I still like him


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