# Would you put a 14yr old through a dental?



## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Guinness (14yr old lab) went for his semiannual check up today. The clinic has a new vet and this is the first time I've seen her. She mentioned that Guinness has bad teeth and recommended a dental. At his last checkup another vet also commented on his teeth but said she didn't think it warranted being put under anesthesia unless he was being put under for something else.
He had a full blood panel taken as part of his exam so I guess I would know if he is a candidate for anesthesia. I could also talk to the vet that would be doing the actual procedure to see if he would be comfortable putting him under anesthesia. His teeth are pretty bad but I'm nervous about the anesthesia.

I also had his 2 new lumps aspirated. One was all fat so she wasn't going to stain it. The other was fat and blood so she was going to stain it and get back to me. That struck me as odd because in the past they've always done it while I was there and I would walk out with the results. So please send good thoughts that it is nothing.

He also had his nails trimmed so it was a pretty traumatic day for my old guy. He's now curled up on the couch with me.


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## Anon-2130948gsoni (Apr 12, 2014)

Is he reluctant to eat or pawing at his mouth or otherwise showing signs of discomfort?

I used to perform dentals on dogs as a vet tech and they can take a long time once you start extracting bad teeth. Dogs do seem to bounce back really well from multiple extractions, but a 60-minute dental was pretty common, at least back then (this is 6 years ago now). That's a long time for a senior to be under anesthesia. We also had two deaths in a single year during dentals--a senior pug and a senior cat. 

Not to be overly cynical, but the reality is that vets were being sold dentistry as a money maker pretty hard there for a while. It's fairly profitable since the procedure is usually done by techs instead of the vet.

So...if he's not showing any signs of discomfort, I probably wouldn't. As an example, my 12 1/2 year-old hound boy had a dental two years ago and his teeth aren't great now. But his liver values tend to go up and down and since he shows no signs of having trouble with his mouth, I'm not going to put him through it. I'd rather spend the money on Greenies!

ETA: I wouldn't worry too much about the aspirate. Every vet has their own protocol that they're used to and she probably just came from a practice that handled those slides differently.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Unless my dog were showing signs of pain or teeth in obvious need of extraction, I would not.

I actually do not do dentals on my younger dogs either unless there is a problem or they are going under anesthesia for other reasons. My dogs generally die at 12, 13, 14 with a full mouth of white teeth, only Casey cracked a few that needed extraction


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

I honestly don't know if he is in any pain. He doesn't have any issues eating or chewing on bones. He doesn't like to get his teeth brushed and seems like he is uncomfortable opening his jaw for me to do it. I don't know if that is pain or he just doesn't want his teeth brushed. I do get blood sometimes on the toothbrush.
He's had his teeth cleaned 3 times in his life. The last time he did need a big molar and a front tooth extracted. They needed to use a nerve block for the front one because even under anesthesia he flinched when they touched it. I didn't know he was experiencing any pain that time, which is why I hesitate to say he isn't in any pain.


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## Anon-2130948gsoni (Apr 12, 2014)

Can you ask the vet if there's anything she saw specifically that is a problem, or is this just a situation where he's of an age and has some tartar build-up?

Have you tried dental chews with him? My dogs love those things.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Is cleaning his teeth without anesthesia an option? Some vets will do this, they might use sedation though.

Blood on the toothbrush - this would have me considering a dental to see what's up but that is me. All options need serious thought at 14, does he have an Laryngeal Paralysis or other breathing issues? How is his heart? blood pressure? etc. Its never an easy decision with our older companions.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

Our last 2 had yearly dentals. They were not big chewers. After age 12 or 13 I just didn't see the need. Tayla is our current girl and is almost 3. Her teeth are pearly white from chewing on antlers and bones. Lily is 5 and we have only had her about 8 months and she also chews a lot so I see no need unless there is an issue. I know that if their gums get really red it can cause bacteria to get in their system which can be bad on all dogs, seniors in particular, but if it is just teeth are cruddy looking but no other problems I'd probably skip dental.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I don't think I would want to risk anesthesia in such an older dog, unless it is a life saving procedure.

I am a LVT by trade, and I remember doing a dental cleaning on a 22 year old cat with kidney issues. I was sweating blood and water when I put him under and during the entire procedure. Of course, I used an anesthetic for seniors and had an IV catheter in with fluids running. The cat needed several extractions and he made it through the procedure without problems. I have no idea why the owners chose to put the old cat through that. 

Anyway, I guess you got the bloodwork pending and see how it looks before making any decisions. If you go through with it, insist on IV catheter and fluids and maybe starting antibiotics several days prior to the dental procedure would be beneficial. That is what we used to do routinely in one of the vet clinics. 

Good luck with whichever you decide.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

> *Would you put a 14yr old through a dental?*


Put simply, NO!


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## Wendi (Jul 2, 2012)

Swampcollie said:


> Put simply, NO!


I agree with this, nope.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Noreaster said:


> Can you ask the vet if there's anything she saw specifically that is a problem, or is this just a situation where he's of an age and has some tartar build-up?
> 
> Have you tried dental chews with him? My dogs love those things.


She just did a quick look in his mouth, the build up is pretty bad and his breath is equally bad.

I don't give them dental chews, I'm not opposed to it, I've just been a little cautious of them after all of the obstruction tales.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Sunrise said:


> Is cleaning his teeth without anesthesia an option? Some vets will do this, they might use sedation though.
> 
> Blood on the toothbrush - this would have me considering a dental to see what's up but that is me. All options need serious thought at 14, does he have an Laryngeal Paralysis or other breathing issues? How is his heart? blood pressure? etc. Its never an easy decision with our older companions.


At the very least the blood tells he gingavitis.
He does have chronic bronchitis, similar to human COPD. I didn't think about that when she mentioned the dental. Since she is so new, maybe she doesn't know his history?

I would certainly talk to the vet that does the dentals/surgeries before scheduling anything. I do trust his judgement.


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## KeaColorado (Jan 2, 2013)

I would say no, unless he needs to be under for something else.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I wouldn't put a young dog through a dental. So... no.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

I haven't actually spoken with the (my normal) vet yet, just had a message on the phone.
His bloodwork came back with elevated platelets, she thinks this has to do with his splenectomy since they've been high since the surgery (2yrs). He also has elevated amylase and lipase. She said this can be a sign of pancreatitis, but he doesn't have any symptoms to go along with that. She said we can have the lab run a pancreatitis specific amylase test or just monitor? I don't know how high they were.
She didn't mention the results of the aspirate so I will ask about that when I see her.

I'll also ask her her opinion on the dental but right now my plan is no dental and give some dental bones a try first.

Does anyone have any insight on the elevated amylase and lipase?


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## Anon-2130948gsoni (Apr 12, 2014)

Elevation in those enzymes might be consistent with mild pancreatitis due to diabetes, Cushing's, low thyroid...or it could just be old age or just him. Many animals can have an out of normal range blood chem value and have it be normal for them or it could just be a mild flare up due to something he ate. 

If it were me, I would wait and talk to your regular vet who knows you and your dog and find out how high "high" is? Honestly, since he's not showing any symptoms of pancreatitis and I assume his blood glucose and the rest of his values were in the normal range, I would probably just wait and see. He's not drinking lots more water than usual, right? 

But you have to do whatever you're comfortable with. If you have that "something isn't right" feeling, go with your instincts.


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

A 14yr old dog with chronic bronchitis put under for a dental only? No way.

If he did need to go under for some reason in the future I would expect chest x-rays to be done besides the given pre-op blood chemistry.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

I'm still waiting on a call back from my vet, but my understanding was that the platelets and enzymes were the only abnormalities. In the message she did say that as long as he isn't vomiting (no) she isn't too concerned.
He doesn't have any obvious symptoms of feeling I'll, so maybe it's just a fluke.

At 14, and after surviving an emergency splenectomy that had a benign path report 2yrs ago, I guess I'm just always expecting the other shoe to drop so to speak.


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

Aaawww Guinnesss! I don't think I would do it, the risk doesn't seem worth it for a dental to me. There must some more conservative options you can try for cleaning and/or pain management and/or comfort. 

Rest up Guinness!


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Just got off the phone with my vet.

Lump came back as a lipoma!
She said the amylase was 1362 (ref value up to 1125) and the lipase was 1589 (ref up to 695).
She suggested bringing in a urine sample since they can also be elevated in kidney disease. His kidney levels from the bloodwork was all within normal range. But a urine sample is easy enough to obtain so I think that is worth checking out to see if he is in early stages of renal disease. They had never been elevated in the past.

I told her I was a little concerned about putting him under anesthesia because of his age and lung issues. She agreed and said she wouldn't do it for her own 11yr old dog and the bronchitis would be an added risk. So the consensus is no dental for him, but I will get some dental chews.


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## Anon-2130948gsoni (Apr 12, 2014)

Thanks for the update. I'm glad your vet is willing to work with you on what's right for your boy.

Wishing him many more happy times...Go, Guinness!


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Sorry to hear about Guinness's blood work results, hope it turns out not to be serious. 

Thinking about you and your boy.

ETA: Really glad you were able to talk to the Vet you normally see, I know you feel more comfortable with this Vet.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

Never, not under any circumstance....!


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

Jennifer1 said:


> Just got off the phone with my vet.
> 
> Lump came back as a lipoma!
> She said the amylase was 1362 (ref value up to 1125) and the lipase was 1589 (ref up to 695).
> ...


Glad it was a fatty lipoma. Bringing in a free catch urine sample could be worth it, but you probably know by now values of such can be off with that method.

It can be a fine line sometimes knowing what to do with our senior kids. Sometimes we open a can of worms when not need be, other times we nip things in the bud.

Guess I just really wanted to say enjoy your dog! Words of wisdom my vet gave me with Tucker.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Thanks, I am certainly enjoying his senior years. He's been a pretty easy dog all these years.
My main concern for him at this point is to make sure he is happy and comfortable.


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## Lennap (Jul 9, 2010)

GoldenCamper said:


> Bringing in a free catch urine sample could be worth it, but you probably know by now values of such can be off with that method..


Remy has regular urine analyses done due to his renal diagnosis (FSGS) - and to mitigate the variability we do a 3 day pooled sample. I collect his first pee of the day for 3 days, keep them in the fridge and the lab uses equal parts of each sample. The renal specialists claim this gives the most accurate results.

Might want to go that path - doesn't cost anymore and then you'll know the results should be solid.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Lennap said:


> Remy has regular urine analyses done due to his renal diagnosis (FSGS) - and to mitigate the variability we do a 3 day pooled sample. I collect his first pee of the day for 3 days, keep them in the fridge and the lab uses equal parts of each sample. The renal specialists claim this gives the most accurate results.
> 
> Might want to go that path - doesn't cost anymore and then you'll know the results should be solid.


This is a good idea. I didn't get his first morning pee today, so I won't be able to get anything checked before Monday so I might as well get a few days.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Whew, what a relief it's a lipoma. I'm glad you aren't going to do a sedated dental. I am very wary about any type of sedation from age 12ish on. Our Toby had a horrific reaction to anesthesia from a dental when he was about 5 so I will be exploring other options with his vet.


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

My SIL swears by checkups dental bones. They had a lab that needed a dental but they went that route instead. I guess at his next visit (6mo) the vet commented how good his teeth look. I'm not sure I'm 100% convinced, but I'll give them a try. Plus continue brushing!


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

I dropped off some urine this morning and got the call back that everything looked good. So no kidney issues either.


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