# Normal or Bad Taste?



## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

This is much more common in less popular breeds. Not so much with goldens since there will always be enough to at least pull a point without having to round up your whole family tree. I have not heard of this happening in goldens (in my neck of the woods, anyways).


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

GoldenSail said:


> Is it normal/acceptable or in bad taste when a breeder has their puppies out in homes put into shows so that s/he can get points on his/her dog? I've ran into a few people that got a dog for conformation who were expected to put their dog in shows to help the breeder get points on another dog before they would seriously go for points on their own dog.


I detest the practice. It doesn't happen all that often in Goldens, as Anney said. There was a breeder/handlers in our state that used to do it . And they were blatant about it. They'd have all these people come with their dogs, ungroomed, untrained, and then the Mr. would take in an impeccably groomed, trained to the T dog. At one show, they "built" the major (all the dog needed), but a couple of folks pulled to break it. At another, the judge was insulted and ended up putting up one of the pets. 
What a waste of time and points for people who legitimately work for them.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

seems to happen a LOT in UKC with people who have champions looking for their grand championship, or looking for "All Star" points.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> seems to happen a LOT in UKC with people who have champions looking for their grand championship, or looking for "All Star" points.


I don't want to win that way. It diminishes the value of a championship.


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> I detest the practice. It doesn't happen all that often in Goldens, as Anney said. There was a breeder/handlers in our state that used to do it . And they were blatant about it. They'd have all these people come with their dogs, ungroomed, untrained, and then the Mr. would take in an impeccably groomed, trained to the T dog. At one show, they "built" the major (all the dog needed), but a couple of folks pulled to break it. At another, the judge was insulted and ended up putting up one of the pets.
> What a waste of time and points for people who legitimately work for them.


That's unbelievable. I would never agree to do that for a breeder. And winning isn't enough for me I guess to do something nasty like that. I believe all the pet owners must have felt humiliated in the ring.


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> I don't want to win that way. It diminishes the value of a championship.


Exactly. I don't want a title on my dog if it doesn't mean that I got it the right way.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

I will say, the people I talked to didn't have goldens. One had a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever and the other a Bernese Mountain Dog. I was just surprised when I heard it. If I had a breeder ask me to put up my dog so that theirs could win I would be pretty hurt myself. _Especially_ if that dog came from that breeder's line--wouldn't they want it to be successful too?


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

GoldenSail said:


> I will say, the people I talked to didn't have goldens. One had a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever and the other a Bernese Mountain Dog. I was just surprised when I heard it. If I had a breeder ask me to put up my dog so that theirs could win I would be pretty hurt myself. _Especially_ if that dog came from that breeder's line--wouldn't they want it to be successful too?


 
Funny you mentioned Berners. I have friends/clients with their first show quality Berners. (Their new boy has 8 points with a major out of the puppy class, and is lovely ) ANYway... their first one, a bitch, was being shown at their first show. Owner handled. They'd been coming to my classes and were really looking forward to it. I asked them about grooming her, and they said that the breeder was going to do it at the show for them. So, I see them at the show, about 20 minutes before Berners were in the ring. I said "When are they going to groom her?" They were crushed, and said "They just did." I said, "Oh, you guys... bring her over to my set up." We put her on the table and I did speed show groom! Did a quick spritz and blow out, did her ears and neck, re-did her feet, trimmed her whiskers off, and touched up her tail. She looked terrific. They couldn't believe the difference. I said let's not go to the ring too early...
When we did get there, the breeder about fainted when she saw her. She was showing the litter sister, who was MUCH more nicely groomed than what she'd done to Sadie. She was going to use her as "filler". To make a long story short, despite his novice handling and first time in the ring jitters, Jerry ended up ging WB from the 12-18. The breeder was NOT happy at going reserve, and barely congratulated Jerry and Terrie. As a breeder, I would have been THRILLED for them!!!! That sort of thing really irritates me.


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## 3459 (Dec 27, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> Funny you mentioned Berners. I have friends/clients with their first show quality Berners. (Their new boy has 8 points with a major out of the puppy class, and is lovely ) ANYway... their first one, a bitch, was being shown at their first show. Owner handled. They'd been coming to my classes and were really looking forward to it. I asked them about grooming her, and they said that the breeder was going to do it at the show for them. So, I see them at the show, about 20 minutes before Berners were in the ring. I said "When are they going to groom her?" They were crushed, and said "They just did." I said, "Oh, you guys... bring her over to my set up." We put her on the table and I did speed show groom! Did a quick spritz and blow out, did her ears and neck, re-did her feet, trimmed her whiskers off, and touched up her tail. She looked terrific. They couldn't believe the difference. I said let's not go to the ring too early...
> When we did get there, the breeder about fainted when she saw her. She was showing the litter sister, who was MUCH more nicely groomed than what she'd done to Sadie. She was going to use her as "filler". To make a long story short, despite his novice handling and first time in the ring jitters, Jerry ended up ging WB from the 12-18. The breeder was NOT happy at going reserve, and barely congratulated Jerry and Terrie. As a breeder, I would have been THRILLED for them!!!! That sort of thing really irritates me.


That's a great story!


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Pointgold said:


> Funny you mentioned Berners. I have friends/clients with their first show quality Berners. (Their new boy has 8 points with a major out of the puppy class, and is lovely ) ANYway... their first one, a bitch, was being shown at their first show. Owner handled. They'd been coming to my classes and were really looking forward to it. I asked them about grooming her, and they said that the breeder was going to do it at the show for them. So, I see them at the show, about 20 minutes before Berners were in the ring. I said "When are they going to groom her?" They were crushed, and said "They just did." I said, "Oh, you guys... bring her over to my set up." We put her on the table and I did speed show groom! Did a quick spritz and blow out, did her ears and neck, re-did her feet, trimmed her whiskers off, and touched up her tail. She looked terrific. They couldn't believe the difference. I said let's not go to the ring too early...
> When we did get there, the breeder about fainted when she saw her. She was showing the litter sister, who was MUCH more nicely groomed than what she'd done to Sadie. She was going to use her as "filler". To make a long story short, despite his novice handling and first time in the ring jitters, Jerry ended up ging WB from the 12-18. The breeder was NOT happy at going reserve, and barely congratulated Jerry and Terrie. As a breeder, I would have been THRILLED for them!!!! That sort of thing really irritates me.


That is horrible. Thank you for stepping up. It was a great story. (Almost made me cry)


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## goldengirls550 (Jun 12, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> Funny you mentioned Berners. I have friends/clients with their first show quality Berners. (Their new boy has 8 points with a major out of the puppy class, and is lovely ) ANYway... their first one, a bitch, was being shown at their first show. Owner handled. They'd been coming to my classes and were really looking forward to it. I asked them about grooming her, and they said that the breeder was going to do it at the show for them. So, I see them at the show, about 20 minutes before Berners were in the ring. I said "When are they going to groom her?" They were crushed, and said "They just did." I said, "Oh, you guys... bring her over to my set up." We put her on the table and I did speed show groom! Did a quick spritz and blow out, did her ears and neck, re-did her feet, trimmed her whiskers off, and touched up her tail. She looked terrific. They couldn't believe the difference. I said let's not go to the ring too early...
> When we did get there, the breeder about fainted when she saw her. She was showing the litter sister, who was MUCH more nicely groomed than what she'd done to Sadie. She was going to use her as "filler". To make a long story short, despite his novice handling and first time in the ring jitters, Jerry ended up ging WB from the 12-18. The breeder was NOT happy at going reserve, and barely congratulated Jerry and Terrie. As a breeder, I would have been THRILLED for them!!!! That sort of thing really irritates me.


Great story. Glad you were there to step in and help, PG. If I was the breeder, I would have been ecstatic because I BRED the dog! Obviously, some people need a priority check.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

goldengirls550 said:


> Great story. Glad you were there to step in and help, PG. If I was the breeder, I would have been ecstatic because I BRED the dog! Obviously, some people need a priority check.


Me, too! I've always told anyone who get a puppy from me and plans to show it, that if I am in the ring at the same time, I'll try my darndest to beat them, but if they win, I'll be every bit as happy as I would if I did!

As for my friends with the Berners, they are the NICEST people - we've known them forever. Our boys played hockey with their son, and Jerry was an asistant coach on one of their teams. It's fun to see him and Terrie doing something together that they enjoy so much now that their kids are grown. Jerry is showing in the breed ring, and Terrie is doing the obedience, agility, and carting. I love grooming, so am happy to help. And when people who've taken my handling class do well, it's extra fun to celebrate with them!


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> Me, too! I've always told anyone who get a puppy from me and plans to show it, that if I am in the ring at the same time, I'll try my darndest to beat them, but if they win, I'll be every bit as happy as I would if I did!
> 
> As for my friends with the Berners, they are the NICEST people - we've known them forever. Our boys played hockey with their son, and Jerry was an asistant coach on one of their teams. It's fun to see him and Terrie doing something together that they enjoy so much now that their kids are grown. Jerry is showing in the breed ring, and Terrie is doing the obedience, agility, and carting. I love grooming, so am happy to help. And when people who've taken my handling class do well, it's extra fun to celebrate with them!


 
Well said Laura!!! I can't believe people nowadays trying to scrounge up as many points as they can and beat a dog they bred, and then leaving that owner feeling terrible. That's the bad things about dog sports..you have those who work their tails off to get everything perfect. Then you have those who sneak around or brown nose and do anyting they can just to say they have a "Champion"...even though they know it wasn't the right way to achieve it.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Great story about the Berner! I am glad to hear that this practice isn't favorable. If the whole point of conformation is to evaluate breeding stock then it should be exciting to see dogs you bred win--even if they beat a dog you own, because more importantly you bred it!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

GoldenSail said:


> Great story about the Berner! I am glad to hear that this practice isn't favorable. If the whole point of conformation is to evaluate breeding stock then it should be exciting to see dogs you bred win--even if they beat a dog you own, because more importantly you bred it!


HAHAHA! I've groomed most of the puppies that I have sold that have been shown, and believe me, I make sure that they are done every bit as well as the ones I take in. I want them ALL to look their best! My name is on as breeder, I sure don't want an unkempt, ungroomed, untrained dog going in :no: And shoot, often, the owners are younger, and MUCH better looking than me, and make hoofing around the ring look a lot more elegant than when this old bod is doing it!!!  LOL


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> Funny you mentioned Berners. I have friends/clients with their first show quality Berners. (Their new boy has 8 points with a major out of the puppy class, and is lovely ) ANYway... their first one, a bitch, was being shown at their first show. Owner handled. They'd been coming to my classes and were really looking forward to it. I asked them about grooming her, and they said that the breeder was going to do it at the show for them. So, I see them at the show, about 20 minutes before Berners were in the ring. I said "When are they going to groom her?" They were crushed, and said "They just did." I said, "Oh, you guys... bring her over to my set up." We put her on the table and I did speed show groom! Did a quick spritz and blow out, did her ears and neck, re-did her feet, trimmed her whiskers off, and touched up her tail. She looked terrific. They couldn't believe the difference. I said let's not go to the ring too early...
> When we did get there, the breeder about fainted when she saw her. She was showing the litter sister, who was MUCH more nicely groomed than what she'd done to Sadie. She was going to use her as "filler". To make a long story short, despite his novice handling and first time in the ring jitters, Jerry ended up ging WB from the 12-18. The breeder was NOT happy at going reserve, and barely congratulated Jerry and Terrie. As a breeder, I would have been THRILLED for them!!!! That sort of thing really irritates me.


Now that is something I would think to do. Can the breeder take away the pup though?


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Kimm said:


> Now that is something I would think to do. Can the breeder take away the pup though?


I'm not sure what you mean...


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Kimm, I am not sure of your question. But I'm interested...


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Oh...sorry. My brain cells are fried today. I was wondering if the pups are from a breeder, do they put some sort of clause in their contract that could make an owner give them up for beating the pants off them? Gawd, if they couldn't take my pup away, I'd be passive aggressive and go out to win!


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