# Hemangio - what to expect



## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

I've found my way back to the forum after some years of absence - for the saddest reason of all: cancer :|

Cosmo is 6 and has had an lump on the outside of his ear flap for the last two years. We decided not to do anything about it on the advice of 3 vets, one of whom owns his sire. When he developed a couple of other lumps we decided to do surgery on all of them and send them off for testing. I just got the news that the one on his ear is hemangiosarcoma. I am due to visit the vet next week to talk about next steps. 

I suspect that we will be removing more of the ear flap and maybe doing an ultrasound to look for more tumours internally.

Can someone give me some idea of what treatments we might be looking at? Why it's been there for so long and doesn't seem to have affected him?

If it is helpful, Cosmo suffers from really bad allergies. He's been on steroids for the last year and a half (after the ear tumour arrived). 

Thanks in advance for any feedback!


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

So sorry. That is very odd to have it on his ear. Is it black? Usually it manifests in the heart or spleen first. Jake had a couple black spots on his abdomen that we found after he was diagnosed and been shaved. If it has t spread anywhere I am not sure about treatments. Hemo is in the blood vessels so there really are t any treatments. Hopefully that spot on his ear was caught early and you will have some options. Hemo can develop on the skin and if caught early there may be a better outcome.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

I'm so sorry that your return is with such sad news. I'm very sorry. I had to google because I had never heard of hemangiosarcoma on an ear - and learned there is dermal hemangiosarcoma. I will attach the link in case it is at all helpful.
Hemangiosarcoma | The National Canine Cancer Foundation


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## Piper_the_goldenpuppy (Aug 26, 2016)

I am so sorry to hear about this dreadful news about Cosmo. 

Hemangiosarcoma is a cancer of the blood vessels, so it can occur in the skin, or anywhere where there are lots of blood vessels. It happens more frequently in the liver and spleen, but the skin is the third most common location. Hemangiosarcomas are actually not infrequently found in the ears, because they are highly vascular, and contain many more blood vessels than the rest of the body. The prognosis is guarded, but can be better than visceral hemangiosarcoma (in the organs). Cutaneous hemangiosarcoma is generally treated with surgery, where they will try to get good, large, clean margins, and sometimes radiation and chemotherapy. It doesn't have to be black or even dark red, there are dermal hemangiosarcomas that can be very dark, and hypodermal (underneath the skin) that will just look skin colored, and can be mistaken for a fatty tumor like a lipoma. 

For what its worth, prednisone is often used in treating hemangiosarcoma (it can help shrink the tumor growth and decrease inflammation), so its unlikely that this contributed to the development of this tumor. If anything, it may be helping (although I think the doses that are used in oncology patients are pretty high, and might be higher than what he's taking now). 

It may be worth consulting with a veterinary oncologist, to see what the options are in your case. They can help guide you and make the best decision for your family and for Cosmo.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

I remember you and Cosmo. I'm so sorry that your are back with such sad news. I hope you will let us keep you company on this part of your journey. It helps to communicate with people who have shared experiences and understand.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Cosmo*

I am so very sorry to hear about Cosmo, but glad you came back here. So many of us have lost dogs to hemangio.
I think the length of time varies for everyone.

Jackie: I'm sure your vet will have good advice on what treatments are available. I believe there is a dermal hemangiosarcoma.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Thank you all for the information and support. 

It's helpful to know that the steroids are not causing this. I was worried we'd have to take him off it and he's been doing so well on the steroids. 

I'm bracing myself for lots of expenses, especially if oncologists and chemo is going to be involved. 

I will keep you updated as I find out more. Since he's not having any clinical symptoms he doesn't give a hoot about the diagnosis - so for now I'm going to try my hardest to channel his golden joy towards myself.

Thanks again for your kindness.


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## tikiandme (May 16, 2010)

My Cosmo and I are sending positive thoughts out for you and your Cosmo....


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

I've finally received information on how we might proceed on how much it might all cost.

Both his vet and his sire's owner have suggested doing an ultrasound and echocardiogram to look for internal tumours around the spleen and heart. If they find nothing we will go ahead and remove the ear completely and hope that we get clean margins. 

If we find internal tumours we will not be removing the ear and will just let things take their course  Can someone tell me what we might expect this to look like? Will he suddenly be in a lot of pain and we will need to say goodbye quickly or will it be slower and things become more difficult for him over time? I've read that things can rupture and he would be in a lot of pain? How can I prevent that without internal surgery?

Lastly we will be spending about $800 for the ultradound (including of the heart area) without the echocardiograpm, $1000 with. The removal of the ear will be about $700. I work in charity and it doesn't pay well. I hate having to make these kinds of decisions, but it is worth it to spend the money looking for internal tumours if we won't do anything about them anyways? Is it better to just remove the ear and hope everything internally is fine? How accurate will the ultrasound be. I would rather take a trip with him and spend the money on that.

Again, all feedback is appreciated.

With a heavy but hopeful heart, Jackie and Cosmo.


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

I am so sorry you have to deal with this. I was just wondering if this was intramuscular hemangiosarcoma? One of our goldens had a tumor in her hind leg and that was the pathology report. It is rare as hemangio is usually in the spleen, heart, lungs. We did have ultra sound and X-ray to check for any other tumors but she was clean so we had the tumor removed. Unfortunately they could not get clean margins as it was so close to the achilles tendon. Another tumor developed and we lost her about 2 months later.


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## Ozzy666 (Oct 18, 2016)

jackie_hubert said:


> Can someone tell me what we might expect this to look like? Will he suddenly be in a lot of pain and we will need to say goodbye quickly or will it be slower and things become more difficult for him over time?



Sorry to hear about your golden's cancer. We just got the pathology report back from our 9 year old golden's removed spleen yesterday. I too would like to hear what the end game is. Our last golden died in a lot of pain from pancreatitis and I don't want to repeat my mistake again.


Thanks.


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## MyMaggieGirl (Nov 12, 2008)

Ozzy666, so sorry to learn of your dog's diagnosis. My last girl died from hemangiosarcoma, she, too, had her spleen removed with the huge tumor. Even though no other cancer was spotted at the time of the surgery, it was there in her blood. We only had her four weeks after the spleenectomy. On her last day, the symptoms were just the same as what brought us to the vet the first time, severe lethargy, not wanting to eat or even move. We were given Yunan Biao (spelling?) which has a tiny red pill in the package that is supposed to stop a bleed. It stopped one for her, but the next day she was bleeding out (internally) again. Severe lethargy, very weak, couldn't even pick up her head, and her belly got really distended from the bleeding. We knew it was the end and brought her in to be put to sleep before she bled to death. She didn't appear to be in pain, but she had no strength left to give.


Again, I'm sorry for the diagnosis. Just make the best of every day. Flirty bounced back from that spleenectomy like she was a puppy, you'd never know she had cancer and that's what made it more difficult to accept.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

jackie_hubert, so very sorry for Cosmo's diagnosis. 

Ozzy666, sorry about your Golden's diagnosis too. 

Sending my thoughts and prayers to you both.


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## Ozzy666 (Oct 18, 2016)

Thanks MMG and CM for your replies. I'm going to start a new thread in a day or two about our golden (Ozzy) because I don't want to hijack Jackie's thread.
Thanks again,
Brad


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Ozzy666 said:


> Sorry to hear about your golden's cancer. We just got the pathology report back from our 9 year old golden's removed spleen yesterday. I too would like to hear what the end game is. Our last golden died in a lot of pain from pancreatitis and I don't want to repeat my mistake again.


I'm so sorry to hear this. Good thoughts to you as you join me and Cosmo on this journey.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Thanks for sharing Mary. 

It makes me so sad.


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

Sending love and prayers.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

gold4me said:


> I was just wondering if this was intramuscular hemangiosarcoma?


I don't think it is. I think it's just dermal. They were unable to tell if the tumor on the ear was primary or metastecized so it could still be a possibility.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Jake had it in his heart and liver. Ironically his spleen was clean. On the day he collapsed we didn't know what was wrong. So we had his heart drained. We had him for three weeks after that with one small bleed during that time. He was a normal dog for those three weeks. Happy and no pain. Chasing rabbits and begging for food. You never would have known he was sick. On that third week he was begging for my Bannana and the next minute he went outside and when he came back in he collapsed. That's when we to him to the vet and put him to sleep.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

I'm so sorry. It's a horrible disease. 

My Ruby had cardiac hemangiosarcoma in early 2015. She had just turned 8 years old when she was diagnosed. We didn't know anything was wrong until she became very ill over the space of a weekend, finally collapsing on the Monday morning. Ultrasounds and electrocardiograms revealed a large tumour on her heart, with some spread to her abdomen. We had the area around her heart drained to give her temporary relief. The specialist vets said she had anywhere from a couple of days to a couple of weeks without treatment, and perhaps, if we were lucky, up to three months with chemotherapy.

Having seen how much she suffered when the tumour ruptured - it was absolutely terrible - and knowing that it would rupture again regardless of what we did, we opted to take her home, spend 24 hours doing all her favourite things, and then send her gently on her way. It was the most devastating thing. At the time of her death she was the reigning Canadian agility champion in her class and was on the brink of becoming the most decorated golden retriever in the history of agility in Canada. She was my pride and joy. I still can't write about her death without crying.

However, I've never regretted the decision not to treat her. She was a force of nature and I couldn't bear the thought of her dying inch by inch. She'd earned the right to leave on her own terms, feeling good, before the cancer had a chance to steal her joy. I'm convinced that, if she'd had a vote, she would have chosen this option. It was the right choice for us.

There are lots of ways to move forward from this diagnosis and you need to choose the path that feels right to you. Knowing exactly what you're dealing with might make the decisions easier, especially as the dermal form of the disease, which your dog has, can sometimes be treated if it hasn't spread. 

I wish you all the best, and lots of good times with your dog.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

I'm so sorry to hear about Jake and Ruby. Thank you for sharing your stories - I know it's hard  Gives me a better understanding of what to expect. The question that seems most difficult for me is to consider what I will do if I see a large internal tumour that may rupture soon... 

We are scheduled for an ultrasound on October 28th. 

Here's to hoping that it comes back clean. Then we'll just take off the ear and hope that the new bump on his skull is not anything to be concerned about.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

How come they are waiting so long for a ultrasound?


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Cpc1972 said:


> How come they are waiting so long for a ultrasound?


No availability earlier.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Jackie*

Praying for you and sweet Cosmo.

We lost our 10 year old Samoyed, Snobear, to hemangiosarcoma. They did exploratory surgery and he had growths on his liver, so we chose to say goodbye to him while he was still under anesthetic. Our girl, Smooch,11 year old Golden Retriever, became ill over a 2 week period, and had a gagging cough and spit up a little blood. She started to turn her nose up at food, which was very unusual for Smooch. They did a chest xray and found out she only had 10% of her lung function. The vet thought it was either lymphoma or hemgiosarcoma and she was having trouble breathing and felt she was suffering. We sunggled with her, as she crossed the Rainbow Bridge.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Thanks for sharing Karen. I cry every time I think about it...


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

jackie_hubert said:


> No availability earlier.


Wow. That's crazy. I guess I am not used to living somewhere that is small. Our emergency vet is a minute down the street. Jake had his ultrasound the day he collapsed.


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

We lost our golden girl, Sophie on Oct. 11. She would have been 13 come Jan. 8 and had bad hips and knees. We had started her on Adequan and it took years off her. She could bounce right up when called, had started wanting to go for short walks again.. She was found to be anemic and hade a raging kidney infection. Tests could find no blood loss, so my vet thought it was possible the kidney infection was causing the anemia and put her on antibiotics. We also started her on the adequan injections.

We were so happy tht she was getting around so well, rolling in the grass once again, etc. Then on Oct. 11 she wouldn't eat supper. Okay, she had eaten our Pyrenees breakfast that afternoon so thought she must not be hungry. She got me up at 6:00 the morning of the 12 to be let out. I let her out and she went out and around the corner to get in her favorite day time sleeping spot--under the cedar tree. Got up at 8:00 and fixed their breakfast and went out to get her. She didn't want to get up at first, then struggled, but couldn't get up. I helped her up and she went into the grass and squatted to pee, but ended up sitting down. I had to help her up again and she walked about 10 feet, stood still and then just collapsed I took her breakfast out her--she wouldn't touch it. She wouldn't even touch her much loved tainy piece of bread with pumpkin on it. I looked at her gums and they were white. I knew then--she was dying.

I called my vet's office, which is only a little over a mile from us, and he sent out a tech to help us get her in--we are 71 & 72, bad hearts and wasn't sure we could manage. We followed her and then spent a little while with Sophie hugging her, etc. Her eyes were as clear as a puppy's eyes would be, but I knew. I held her head as Rickey gave her the injection and never had I had a dog pass as fast as she did. Turns out she was bleeding from her liver. She had so little blood that no part of her body had been getting enough oxygen and that caused her collapse. We only had that sweet little redhead for 20 months. Had adopted her 5 weeks after her 11th birthday but she got into our hearts in a micro second.

And 2 years ago we lost our Great Pyrenees, Shaggy to hemangiosarcoma. We had only adopted him 3 1/2 weeks earlier, a 7 year old blind, badly abused boy who was an awe3some dog. He was fine on the money, eating all 3 meals and his treats, doing his Pyr Patrol around our yard--in just 3 weeks he had learned where everything was and was confident enough to trot around out there. Tuesday morning (Sept. 23, 2014, he would not get up to go out that morning. Would not eat a treat. Collapsed on the way to the car. Ultrasound--ruptured tumor on spleen, bleeding out and nothing could be done. In both of thee cases it was to late before we knew about it. So hope and pray that you got to Cosmo's in time and that he has no other.


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## JDandBigAm (Aug 25, 2008)

Thinking about you and your youngster today. I've had two goldens go through ultrasounds and biopsies over the last year and know how anxious you must be. Hopefully, the ear is the only area effected.


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## B and G Mom (Oct 29, 2014)

I have never been through the dermal type, but when my vet found a lump on my Blossom's head and tested it, fortunately it came back clean, however we did lose her about 2 years later to the terrible H so now I wonder....

She didn't exhibit any symptoms, her and I ran the night before she passed. The only thing that was "off" was that night when she went out before bed, she came in slowly, but then she put her nose to the sliders and was acting like she smelled something - which made me think she was just being too nosy outside to come in quick, something she did from time to time. So the behavior wasn't that out of character. But the next morning she couldn't get up. We rushed her to the vet, she suspected but didn't have an ultrasound machine so we transferred her to the emergency vet. She was full of tumors and the one on her spleen burst. They told us there wasn't anything we could do so we let her go with us loving on her. She was a rescue, but we think she was 10.

Then we lost Bailey - he collapsed at 1:30 am. My husband heard it and thinks he actually was almost gone, but revived when he went to him. This time it was a tumor on the heart, he barely lasted until we got him to the vet so he could pass peacefully. He never exhibited any issues, he was running around the family room at midnight like a nut. Never suffered a day... he was 10.7

This June we lost Belle, even less indication than Bailey that something was wrong... she was herself up until the last seconds of her life. She collapsed on the kitchen floor and went in our arms in about 2 minutes. Doc thinks she had a bleed and threw a clot. She was 10.3.

Then there was Thor, he wasn't mine but I dog sat for him. Last May he had surgery to remove a bowl obstruction (he was a sock eater), while the doc was in there he found a small tumor on the spleen so they removed it, it tested positive for hemangio. His parents enrolled him into the Penn State study and gave him herbal supplements, he did great until August. He was at my house when he had a bleed he couldn't recover from and we lost him. 

I wish I had better news, but I feel that Bailey, Blossom and Belle never suffered long from it. I feel the worst for Thor since I know he had bleeds.


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## alphadude (Jan 15, 2010)

B and G Mom said:


> I have never been through the dermal type, but when my vet found a lump on my Blossom's head and tested it, fortunately it came back clean, however we did lose her about 2 years later to the terrible H so now I wonder....


Sorry to hear about the diagnosis. 

Ax had a 'benign pigmented tumor' removed from his nose 2.5 years prior to his diagnosis and subsequent death from hemangio so I am wondering if there is a link, causal effect, or perhaps it's an indicator of a genetic predisposition to that insidious disease...kind of like genetic markers.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Jake defintly had a dermal spot on his stomach. We had seen it but couldn't find it to show the vet. It was only after he was shaved for his ultrasound after his collapse we saw it again. So I am thinking he had that spot then it spread to his heart and liver.


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## Watsonbmw (Jun 4, 2016)

jackie_hubert said:
Original post 
Can someone tell me what we might expect this to look like? Will he suddenly be in a lot of pain and we will need to say goodbye quickly or will it be slower and things become more difficult for him over time?


Our Bailey was diagnosed with hemogiosarcoma February 14th of this year he had a large mass on his spleen his surgery was scheduled for the 28th his health completely deteriorated within a week and a half of diagnosis from happy go lucky running and jumping begging for food Bailey to lethargic refusing to eat We took him back into our vet he had an ultrasound the cancer had spread to his other organs. On February 26th we put our sweet boy to sleep 
I hope your cosmo well and well wishes that it is only on his ear ??


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## Yaichi's Mom (Jul 21, 2012)

alphadude said:


> Ax had a 'benign pigmented tumor' removed from his nose 2.5 years prior to his diagnosis and subsequent death from hemangio so I am wondering if there is a link, causal effect, or perhaps it's an indicator of a genetic predisposition to that insidious disease...kind of like genetic markers.


Interesting observation and excellent question AD....a precursory indicator perhaps? 

In my Yaichi's case, she developed a lipoma on her hip several years before she collapsed from hemangiosarcoma. It was aspirated and was found to be benign, however it grew to quite a large size, vet was not concerned about it however a few days after her collapse it burst ( I won't go into the details) however it was obvious that what started off diagnosed as a lipoma was no longer a benign fatty lump.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Thanks for more of you who have shared your stories. I know it must be hard to recount those moments 


I got good news about Cosmo! The ultrasound showed no evidence of cancer in his abdomen or heart! 

He is scheduled to have his ear removed this Saturday. Let's hope that the lab reports clean margins.


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## B and G Mom (Oct 29, 2014)

That is wonderful news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope the surgery goes well for him! I will certainly be hoping for clean margins as well!


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## JDandBigAm (Aug 25, 2008)

I hope Cosmos' surgery is successful on Saturday. The surgeon will know if he has clean margins and will let you know after surgery. If not, Washington State University in Pullman, WA has a very specialized radiation instrument that can treat specific regions without damaging tissue around the cancer....but I am praying you get great news from the surgeon!!!


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## MyMaggieGirl (Nov 12, 2008)

How is Cosmo doing?


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Hello all,

Wonderful news. The lab reported clean margins. So as far as we know Cosmo is now cancer free!

Thank you all for your support!


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## Pilgrim123 (Jul 26, 2014)

There is a happy dance being done here in Australia for your good news! Give Cosmo an extra treat from me.


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## JDandBigAm (Aug 25, 2008)

What great news and I'm sure you gave Cosmo even more big hugs!


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Many treats and hugs all around!

Here's some pictures of his new 'look'. 

He's fully embracing his new hashtag: #oneeareddog


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## Brinkleythegolden (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm so glad the margins were clean! He's a very handsome one-eared dude!


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## tikiandme (May 16, 2010)

He looks beautiful!


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