# Dog Nutrition - My thoughts and process



## GoldenFocus (Feb 28, 2016)

Hi all,

I have done a lot of searching for food that I find nutritious and healthy for my Dogs....Kind of like reading reviews on "the best stereo speakers"...lots of opinion and not as much actual data and long term results.

So, if any of you have actual experience (long term, hopefully) on serving your dogs something that is not directly out of a bag I would greatly appreciate it.

Background as to my concern: Started with the China food finding its way into the pet food market. Had two cats get very sick, so I did some reading and found healthy products. Problem solved.

Getting concerned with the increased incidence of cancer in dogs. Is this from pesticide? GMO grains? Radiated fish? I am not a research chemist so that answer is beyond me. But here is what I am attempting to do:

Purchase high quality kibble that is free of GMO ingredients. Organic is a plus but I am concerned with the connection of GMO and cancer rates.

Add home cooked ingredients to the kibble to ensure balance of nutrition.

Have started giving pet vitamins on occasion.

Looks like good home sourced ingredients are:

Split peas, Lentils, Green beans, Zucchini, Brown rice, Nutritional Yeast, Low fat Cottage Cheese, Tomatoes, Carrots, Chicken, Lamb and Beef. I am avoiding animal parts that are filter organs (liver, kidney....) and including the other cuts of meat.

I have a grinder on my Kitchen Aid to process the meat.

My learnings so far indicate that kibble should be mixed with a changing mix of the above. As an example kibble + green beans = Lentils. Few days later Kibble + split peas + brown rice....and so on. All of the veggies and meats are cooked, then added to kibble with other items not requiring cooking.

I guess the kibble should be from two sources and rotated as well....

I have used the Dick Van Patten Limited Ingredient kibble, Blue Buffalo and an organic one from Costco so far. 

So since my dogs are allergy free the ingredient list is open.

Am I missing anything you know is beneficial? Any concerns with the ingredients I should know about?

Getting a Golden pup in about 12 weeks and that is another diet for me to figure out later.

Thanks much!


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## Golden Pond (Nov 11, 2015)

I've had multiple dogs all my life(a long one!) Started with Yorkshire Terriors bred many champions and diet was always important for coats. My husband and I have had Golden's since 1987 and I have always "cooked" for them. We serve a top grain free kibble, I rotate brands and proteins. To that I add human food...chicken, canned fish like salmon sardines or mackeral or eggs. I rotate veggies sometimes add barley or brown rice or Steele cut oats. Can cook all together as a stew and top the kibble. Mine love sweet potato and butternut squash...fresh tomatoes (they steal them off my vines!) I find lentils tough for them to digest but they eat them! Carrots and green beans and fresh pea pods also are a hit! They also get Greek yogurt every day...unsweetened but as a treat sometimes vanilla slips in their dish. I think anything you can cook up and add is a bonus...just reducing the processed kibble my dogs eat makes me feel better. Raw diet is an art...but many do it really well for their dogs. As supplements...fish oil or coconut oil..nutritional yeast and probiotic for my older dogs, as well as glucosamine. Try some fruit as well...favorites here are apples, berries,cantaloupe and Clementine's! It is not inexpensive nor a miracle solution to all the evil health problems but it's just the way we feed our Golden friends....like family!


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## GoldenFocus (Feb 28, 2016)

*Thanks Golden Pond*

Perfect! I totally forgot about the oatmeal and apples....


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## Rob S. (Feb 2, 2014)

I don't think people realize that domesticated dogs are the result of an evolution making them about the easiest animal to feed in the world. 

So, all this obsession is probably the result of owner boredom.

The higher rates of cancer in dogs has nothing to do with diet, rather longer lives and the very strong link to breed. Some breeds are just more prone to cancer, some have virtually no incidence of cancer.

Your time and money are yours, its not my place to tell you what to do....


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## Golden Pond (Nov 11, 2015)

Rob....I am neither bored nor obsessed. I would agree that diet is not the answer to cancer in our dogs. There are so many factors to the issue of health...in people and our domesticated pets. I happen to think that a high quality diet and lifestyle for my dogs results in a better way of life for them while they are here with us. No one claims diet will prevent the proclivity to cancer but there are those of us who strive to provide the best we can manage for our dogs. Our time and our money...our choice. Just a discussion and sharing of what we believe in...no judgement. I don't think anyone should tell another what to do but we can discuss how we feed our dogs and exchange ideas hopefully without bias.


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## Rob S. (Feb 2, 2014)

Golden Pond said:


> Rob....I am neither bored nor obsessed. I would agree that diet is not the answer to cancer in our dogs. There are so many factors to the issue of health...in people and our domesticated pets. I happen to think that a high quality diet and lifestyle for my dogs results in a better way of life for them while they are here with us. No one claims diet will prevent the proclivity to cancer but there are those of us who strive to provide the best we can manage for our dogs. Our time and our money...our choice. Just a discussion and sharing of what we believe in...no judgement. I don't think anyone should tell another what to do but we can discuss how we feed our dogs and exchange ideas hopefully without bias.


Let me ask you, have you neutered your dogs??

Also, we love Maine my son is in college there. One of the schools that starts with a B.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

GoldenFocus said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have done a lot of searching for food that I find nutritious and healthy for my Dogs....Kind of like reading reviews on "the best stereo speakers"...lots of opinion and not as much actual data and long term results.
> 
> ...


Perhaps you should take up this subject with your Veterinarian. Many Veterinarians have dealt with pups that have growth and development problems due to an improper diet concocted by their owners.

Save your pup and yourself a lot of grief by picking a long proven good quality kibble.


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## Golden Pond (Nov 11, 2015)

Not sure what neutering my dogs has to do with it...but I have intact dogs as well as several who are spayed or altered. We have five adults and a litter due momentarily. Ours range in age from twelve to our youngest who is three.
Don't mean to be combative but just discussing diet with another kindred spirit. Glad your son is in school here...ours as well finishing his master's.


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## GoldenFocus (Feb 28, 2016)

*Vet input*

Actually the Vet mentioned mixing green beans and legumes cooked with kibble. That and the cottage cheese....


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## GoldenRetrieversAlberta (Dec 15, 2014)

I think it is great that you are trying to feed your dog in the best possible way. Personally, I have read so much about raw, that I would no hesitation feed that, and avoid kibble as much as I can. No doubt, there are good kibbles out there, but nothing can beat the fresh, unprocessed nature of a raw diet.


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## Susan: w/ Summit we climb (Jun 12, 2014)

I have heard that Goldens in the past, for example in the 1970's and '80's, were more likely to live for up to 18 years than those of today, and the foods they were fed included Eukanuba, Purina, Alpo, Kibbles & Bits. Full of cheap ingredients that I would have thought more likely to poison the dogs. That thought has always been in the back of my mind when considering dog nutrition. Apparently grains and other cheap sources of carbohydrates are not quite as harmful as we tend to think nowadays.


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## Rob S. (Feb 2, 2014)

Golden Pond said:


> Not sure what neutering my dogs has to do with it...but I have intact dogs as well as several who are spayed or altered. We have five adults and a litter due momentarily. Ours range in age from twelve to our youngest who is three.
> Don't mean to be combative but just discussing diet with another kindred spirit. Glad your son is in school here...ours as well finishing his master's.


I brought up neutering because many people that obsess about food and supplements are often the first people to neuter young dogs. Keeping a dog intact for at least 2-3 years or forever is the single best thing along with limited vaccines that one can do. 

Food is not even a consideration if you use a decent quality food.


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## GoldenRetrieversAlberta (Dec 15, 2014)

I think it is a combination of things for sure. Having a healthy host is most important and there are a multitude of aspects that contribute to that. Limiting the vaccines, healthy food and yes, keeping the dog intact for at least a couple years, are all contributing factors to a healthy host (and that is only my opinion of course). It's the ENTIRE picture that matters.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Susan: w/ Summit we climb said:


> I have heard that Goldens in the past, for example in the 1970's and '80's, were more likely to live for up to 18 years than those of today, and the foods they were fed included Eukanuba, Purina, Alpo, Kibbles & Bits. Full of cheap ingredients that I would have thought more likely to poison the dogs. That thought has always been in the back of my mind when considering dog nutrition. Apparently grains and other cheap sources of carbohydrates are not quite as harmful as we tend to think nowadays.


average life expectancy for the breed has NEVER been 18 years.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I have fed raw for many years. I started with cooked when a golden had problems and transitioned to primarily raw (i do feed kibble, Fromms or Purina ProPlan a time or 2 a week so my dogs can overnight at other locations).
That said, my current rotation includes

A variety of meat sources (beef, chicken, fish, quail, rabbit for example) that a few raw vendors have available. These meats may be mixed with organs, bones, veggies etc depending.

A green veggie mixture that will typically include kale, lettuce greens, cucumbers, celery, carrots, flax seed and yogurt. A few times a week they get eggs with shells.

They get leftovers and bonanza clean out the fridge days (note, we eat primarily low carb and organic so the dogs rarely have processed foods either). Maybe an apple or even a banana might come their way.

When they need to gain weight organic rice or other starchy type things are added to their bowls.

My dogs are healthy, active and compete in obedience and agility. Their coats are shiny, their eyes and ears are clear and they rarely have skin issues (can sometimes happen when they find really disgusting **** to roll in and I can't bathe or rinse them in time)

My vets see the results and don't even suggest kibble as a primary food source 

Variety is important, and organ meats supply a lot of nutrition so try to include some if possible.

Oh, 2 of my current dogs have healthy offspring as well, so home prepared diets can work well


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## Golden Pond (Nov 11, 2015)

My dogs too have great coats ...perfect ears and healthy teeth with no tarter problems. They are athletic and avid swimmers...no hot spots or skin issues. Minimal vaccinating and no lawn and garden chemicals. Is it the answer to keeping cancer at bay? No but this approach of diet and care is what I believe in for my dogs and have practiced for many years. Not an obsession...a lifestyle.


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## Monkey&Marshall (Aug 17, 2015)

We feed top of the line food as well, and I will tell you that my best friend (who is a vet, and who I harass about everything) rolls her eyes out of her sockets about the "fad" that is dog food currently Now she will totally tell you that feeding kibbles and bits off the grocery store shelf is crap, but she will also tell you that Blue Buffalo is nothing more than a glorified marketing scheme.  

I do think we humanize them a tad, but that's ok. I feed top of the line because I want the best for my dogs - regardless if they need it, want it, or really regardless of it's benefits. It makes me feel better to know they are eating food that doesn't sound disgusting.  

However, these same animals have been known to eat feces - so really - what do I know?


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## Melfice (Aug 4, 2012)

Sunrise said:


> I have fed raw for many years. I started with cooked when a golden had problems and transitioned to primarily raw (i do feed kibble, Fromms or Purina ProPlan) a time or 2 a week so my dogs can overnight at other locations.
> 
> That said, my current rotation includes
> 
> ...


I'm very interested in switching my pups to a raw diet. Any good information (or books) that you can recommend? I want to make sure I feed the dogs correctly, and don't want to make mistakes etc


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## Melfice (Aug 4, 2012)

Monkey&Marshall said:


> We feed top of the line food as well, and I will tell you that my best friend (who is a vet, and who I harass about everything) rolls her eyes out of her sockets about the "fad" that is dog food currently Now she will totally tell you that feeding kibbles and bits off the grocery store shelf is crap, but she will also tell you that Blue Buffalo is nothing more than a glorified marketing scheme.
> 
> I do think we humanize them a tad, but that's ok. I feed top of the line because I want the best for my dogs - regardless if they need it, want it, or really regardless of it's benefits. It makes me feel better to know they are eating food that doesn't sound disgusting.
> 
> However, these same animals have been known to eat feces - so really - what do I know?


I know what you mean haha. When I was growing up with our first Golden Retriever in the 90's...we knew nothing about dog food types (it was more limited I'm sure back then), and we fed Ginger (my first Golden) Dog Chow her whole life.

She never had any issues and lived over 12+ years. Ginger died on the 4th of July (sad accident), but who knows if all these high end foods will make a difference or not with my current pups I have now.

I want to make sure I'm giving them all good food, but we will see what happens years from now.


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

They say "you are what you eat" so lets hope those of us that buy supposed top of the line dog food have it make a difference.
My first two Goldens, who lived to be 12 and 13, ate what I thought was great food back in the 90's. Eukenuba and Science Diet......there were countless ear infections and alot of scratching.
Murphy started out on Orijen and now Acana Pacifica. He'll be four in April! Never an ear infection and have cleaned his ears maybe four times just because. They are spotless. Scratching a day or so after a bath and when I switched him to poultry based Acana.
I have to believe it makes a difference.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Melfice said:


> I'm very interested in switching my pups to a raw diet. Any good information (or books) that you can recommend? I want to make sure I feed the dogs correctly, and don't want to make mistakes etc


First you would need to decide on which basic model you would be most comfortable on 
One model relies heavily on bones.

The model I follow includes veggies, fruits and a meat assortment with any bones ground up - I have multiple dogs plus an aversion to the mess raw meaty bones can make, but that is me. 

I think to what might be found in nature and that would include stolen eggs, partially digested (i Vitamix but cooking would also do) vegetation as in a rabbit, the stolen fruit, some yogurt for the probiotics etc.

I started with books, and the internet and talking to raw feeders whose dogs I admired which is how I started including ground flax seed (good fat that helps their coats too).

I am afraid I don't know any current books, but did start from books written by veterinarians and/or nutritionalists. My dogs diets have also developed as I see what a few of my raw food suppliers have available and/or add to their mixtures.

TopQualityDogFood and Blue Ridge Beef (they have non beef as well) are my 2 favored vendors/suppliers if you'd like to see some of their mixtures


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## Melfice (Aug 4, 2012)

Sunrise said:


> First you would need to decide on which basic model you would be most comfortable on
> One model relies heavily on bones.
> 
> The model I follow includes veggies, fruits and a meat assortment with any bones ground up - I have multiple dogs plus an aversion to the mess raw meaty bones can make, but that is me.
> ...


Thanks for the information and your reply  

I have a lot of homework to research, and I hope to switch over sometime this year


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## GoldenRetrieversAlberta (Dec 15, 2014)

Sunrise always has some quality information regarding raw- thanks! 
I have done plenty of research, and have decided to start out with pre-made raw (patties), and slowly begin to incorporate raw bones (in place of a patty for example), as well as some of the "weird" parts such brains, etc. And of course getting some organ meats in there when not giving patties. 

A good resource we have used is Dogs Naturally Magazine. They focus on plenty of things regarding raising your dog holistically (lots on vaccines), but also plently on feeding raw.


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## s20055 (Sep 10, 2015)

We've been feeding our boy a base of Fromm's Adult Gold (about 3/4 cup) plus 3.5 oz of Raw Food (Columbia River natural Pet Food - ground raw meat, organ, bone and vegetables depending on the flavor...I mix it up). This is fed three times per day with a splash of warm water in the mix. Added to this once per day is one 500 mg capsulated salmon oil. He gets tired of the chicken and veggie (raw), but loves all of the Beef, Venison, Turkey and Duck varieties.

I like the Columbia River product as it is just meat (and veggies, if you get that variety) with no added garbage.

I'm looking at the Orijen Brand as a substitute for the Fromm's; something about the ingredients that I like better...particularly for Goldens.

Riley:


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## Artbuc1 (Sep 4, 2016)

Rob S. said:


> Food is not even a consideration if you use a decent quality food.


Rob, am very surprised you are saying this because, IIRC, you advocate Robert Abady which is a very expensive and controversial gourmet brew. Why do you spend so much money on this high-end food? What benefits are you looking for?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

There have been so many huge studies on cancer in dogs that if there was a statistically significant dietary component it would likely have been found by now. 
Feed your dogs whatever works for you, and for them.


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## Yaichi's Mom (Jul 21, 2012)

I would encourage all of you who are concerned about the longevity of your dogs/cats, the epidemic of cancer in dogs, especially in GRs to watch the 2 videos and take the time to check out and read the links below.






Long Living Pets - Long Living Pets






http://www.dogwise.com/authpub/nutrigenomics_excerpt.pdf

Keto Pet - Human-Grade Cancer Therapy for Dogs

Ketogenic and Raw Food Diets Help Dogs and Cats Live Longer and Fight Cancer


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## Kaja (Oct 1, 2016)

I remember my Grandma had a "Dackel" (Dachshund?). She never bought any dogfood. Not once. This dog was 14 years old when he passed. I remember his fur was so unbelieveable soft and shiny. He used to go for walks on his own, sometimes he just vanished, wandering from one little town to the next. Everyone knew him. And he always came back.
He basically lived off potatoes or rice and veggies and chicken or fish. Cooked. And once a week she put a raw egg & shell on top.
He was never sick, the happiest dog I've seen in my life.

Happened in the 70's in a really small town in Hessen / Germany.


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## terroh8er (Jun 18, 2016)

There are people who live to be 110 years old that have been three pack a day smokers their entire lives. Can we conclude that cigarettes are good for you? I don't think so. Autism rates are on the rise and so are the number of vaccinations we get. Probably related, right? Nope.

People come here for information and so I think it's only fair to let people know that there is no research backing up any of these claims about grain-free, non-GMO, and holistic foods. There is more evidence that vaccines cause autism than there is for this. Case in point: someone has a dog that is fed Science Diet and it gets ear infections. The next dog they get is fed some natural brand and it doesn't get ear infections. Must be the Orijen, right? Can't just be the luck of the genetic dice. Would the same person blame the Orijen if their new dog had more ear infections? Doubtful.

Reading this stuff makes my head spin. For every one person who claims that their dog gained supernatural abilities from eating grain-free food, there's fifty who will tell you that their dog did noticeably worse on those brands. It's not fair that the person casually browsing dog foods is constantly inundated with this pseudoscience coming from a small vocal minority of flat earthers.


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