# Misbehaving? or Misunderstood?



## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

Thanks Charliethree for your useful post. 

Some days I feel we (Charlie and me) are still "work in progress" although my husband thinks after 2 years and half I should stop wondering "are we there yet". 
Charlie is a great dog with my husband but doesn't listen to me all time. I think it is because he loves my husband so much and wants to please him. And there are many other things probably that I am doing wrong but it could be loooong post.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Very true re/people not bridging the gap between training in the privacy of their home to maneuvering their dogs in a high degree sensatory overload type of place... but I'll go a step further. Something that sticks in my head a little when I see or hear stuff going on with dogs... is people will train their dogs at home with a lot of treats, and rely HEAVILY on treats at home to get them to do stuff.... but the dogs don't actually learn the skills related to all that training and it does not generalize when the dogs are taken elsewhere where other stuff trumps the food and/or the owners do not have any food on hand to bait/lure the dogs into behaving. And this gradually turns into the owners either layering the control devices (prong collar, nose harnesses, leg binding harnesses, etc) on the dogs - or the owners not taking the dogs into public. 

I do think that some people need to learn how to train their dogs when they have nothing to reward or motivate the dogs with. And it will happen. Because dogs' stomach will shut off when they are excited about something or nervous. My opinion is that if a dog is out of control in public - he is not trained well enough and/or the owner is not exerting any control over the dog. It's not like they are kids and can reason on their own how to behave. Stuff is either taught or not. A lot of people do make up excuses for a dog's wildness (and I definitely DO use a "he's a puppy" card for as long as that lasts, so I completely understand). By the time a dog is 2+ years old, a lot of those excuses kinda have an expiration date.

For that matter or different topic - there's people who don't take their dogs in public because the dogs are too fat or poorly groomed to show off. <- Somebody I know essentially admitted to this and I was just stunned that could be any excuse.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

They are all a work 'in progress', we never stop 'teaching' and they never stop learning, and neither do we. I wouldn't worry about 'are we 'there'?, ('there' is a goal that is different for every dog parent) or what you might be doing 'wrong' but focus on the journey, that is what it is all about. If you are experiencing problems pick one and focus on it, then work with another, but rather than focus on simply 'stopping' the unwanted behavior, consider what you can teach him TO DO instead, that will 'prevent' him from practicing the unwanted behavior in the first place, and teach and reward him for doing it. 

It seemed my kids were and my dogs are 'better behaved' with my hubby, but I think it was because I spent/spend more time with them so they had/have more 'opportunity' to 'misbehave' and experiment with what 'works' or not, and that is okay. We should try to understand that our dogs have good days, bad days, days when they have 'ants in their pants', and sometimes they just need a day 'off' to relax and 'roll in the dirt', just like us, and they may not always behave in ways we think they 'should' and that is okay.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

I'm loving this thread.

I've been using treats to get Max to pay attention to me when we walk at the park. Every time he "checks in," I would give him a treat. Worked so well that now we can't seem to go 3 feet without a check in, and a treat is expected. I want him to pay attention, but still keep moving - if that makes sense? He pulls, still, and he's 7 years old! My thought was that if he's watching me, and looking back to me, it would minimize the pulling. 

What I've been doing is holding up empty hands to keep him moving, telling him he's amazingly smart for checking, and treating every 3rd or 4th check. 

Am I doing the right thing? Any advice? He's really good about distractions, I can tell him "ignore" and he'll stay with me when another dog passes, or a person. It's just the "too many check ins" thing!


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

Charlie usually checks in when I stop bubbling "Charlie ... slow down ... no pull ... wait for mommy ... it's not how we walk ... together ...." just to see what's wrong and if I am not talking, am I still there. :doh:


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Once the dog understands the behavior we are looking for, ie: 'checking in', we can move to food rewarding intermittently, though we still want to reinforce that good behavior with praise (good job!) and/or a 'life reward' (go sniff, or continue the walk) every time. Once the behavior becomes 'habit', then we really don't need to reinforce it 'every' time, but we need to remember to reward/reinforce it once in a while to maintain the behavior.

laprincessa - You are absolutely on the right track. The more we can reinforce them for making the 'right' choice, the more likely they are to offer that behavior again.

Buddy's mom - Though there is nothing wrong with talking to our dogs, who listens better than they do? we have to keep in mind that if we chatter a 'lot', our voice becomes 'white noise' (like having a radio on all day at work, we soon stop 'hearing' it) and 'irrelevant' to them, they stop paying attention. So if/when we want to give them a cue, we need to ensure that they have their attention on us -looking at us. We can get their attention by saying their name, (assuming they have a history of being reinforced for looking at us when we say their name) or making an unusual sound or, as you have found, not making any noise at all. If he is looking at you ('offering' attention) when you stop talking, take the opportunity to reward him for it. When we do have their attention, then we can cue the behavior we are seeking.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

It is a common misconception that reward based training consists of using food as lures, bribes and bait to get a dog to 'do stuff', and that the dog will not attend to a cue unless there is food in the offing. IF that is happening, then the handler has misunderstood how to work with reward based training and needs some guidance as when to reward - after the dog has performed the requested behavior, and how to phase out the food reward and use them 'intermittently' while adding something else that is rewarding to the dog, such as a 'life' reward, play, petting, praise or just the chance to get 'it right', once the dog has become reliable with attending to the cue.
If a dog is unable to attend to cues that it has a history of reliably responding to, and is refusing treats that it would normally eat with gusto, then the dog is over threshold (unable to emotionally cope or 'think') in a situation/environment that they should not have been put into in the first place, and they should be removed from that situation.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Charliethree said:


> It is a common misconception that reward based training consists of using food as lures, bribes and bait to get a dog to 'do stuff', and that the dog will not attend to a cue unless there is food in the offing.....


It's not really a misconception. It happens. 

It's not due to a specific method. It's basically owners getting addicted to the easy way of getting results and not moving on past using the treats or toys or hands and body language going all over to help the dog be right. 

There was a conversation elsewhere with people letting loose about what kinds of dogs come their way for boarding - they get a lot of dogs who do not have any concept of manners instilled. You had people getting defensive because they thought a specific method they use was getting attacked, but in all reality it's poor instruction and poor reception of instruction going on. People are focusing on quick results with a method that does not have a track record of quick results in all places without use of control type equipment (harnesses, etc).


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

CharlieThree and Megora - you guys give the best advice. Thank you so much


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Megora said:


> It's not really a misconception. It happens.
> 
> It's not due to a specific method. It's basically owners getting addicted to the easy way of getting results and not moving on past using the treats or toys or hands and body language going all over to help the dog be right.


The misconception is that bribing is part of effective "reward based training." Bribing is bribing, and it's ineffective training no matter where you are in the process or what other methods you mix in with your rewards. 

A little luring is usually OK in the teaching phase of a skill, but any time somebody is bribing (which I'm defining here as showing a treat to motivate a behavior), that's just asking for a dog who won't listen unless you're holding a treat and/or a dog who won't obey when something more interesting than a treat is happening—and the world offers a lot of things more interesting than a treat.

Effective use of treats really means staying away from the habit of bribing very early. Treats are terrific rewards but poor motivators. If you ever find yourself in a bidding war between the hot dog you're holding and something exciting your dog wants to do, you're not training effectively.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

@Tippy - Luring and bribing are basically the same thing. Although in theory and looking at a different definition of bribing, I can think of ways that "bribing" is actually preferred - I'll get to that in a moment. 

Both behaviors are basically the use of X to bring a dog into position or produce a behavior from the dog. 

Some amount of luring is OK when refining positions and behaviors - particularly with a green dog who doesn't have these behaviors instilled completely or needs a reminder. 

I just helped a little in a competition class last night because there was somebody trying to lead a dog around a figure 8 with the hand and treat all the way out in front of the dog's nose the whole time. 

My comment to the lady at the time was if you are going lure at all, tuck the thumb into a belt loop or pocket and hold the treat against your hip so it's not visible to the dog and can weaned off faster. This brings the dog's nose to where it should be while in heel position. This also produced more appropriate posture from the handler who previous was bent over half leading the dog around by the nose. As I saw last night, the heel position and focus immediately became better. 

^ This is competition level classes - which is different than practical application when teaching people to handle their mostly untrained young dogs. My feeling is that the further you get away from refined positions, the greater focus is just on common sense "DO IT" stuff. Walk/jog on a loose lead. Don't lunge. Don't slip the collar. Sit when told. Don't jump. Don't sniff. Stay close when off leash. Come when called or when owner has stopped (my dogs have an understanding to always be checking in on me when we're out off leash and if I stop or they lose sight of me, they immediately turn around and come back to my space). All of these behaviors can be trained exactly without the owner needing to have treats on their person. My way is (1) dogs earn trust and (2) they get praise and shoulder skritches when they are good. And if they are bad, they have to stay on leash and there may be corrections in other cases. 

Even people who use treats all the time - you will reach a point where it just isn't convenient to have treats on your person but you might want to take your dog out anywhere and not have to worry about him being out of control or embarrassing. 

A lot of this stuff (as in foundation behaviors) ought to be taught early on when the dogs are puppies... and by the time they are adults, you should not need to have food on your person and/or harnesses of all kinds on the dogs to keep them under control. When training pet dogs to "JUST DO IT" - there doesn't need to be a lot of flair or fuss or exactness. You're not talking about heeling or perfect straight recalls with scoot sits....

A lot of people could absolutely train a dog using only positive reinforcement and no corrections, but it takes a lot more dedication and time (not just time in training sessions, but time as in length of time spent doing many training sessions and so on). 

A lot of pet owners don't have that dedication or time on their hands so they continue to use a lot of the extra rewards and treats and so on - and or so many switch to control devices like nose and no-pull harnesses. 

Now bribing - which again, I see as the same as luring, but if you look at the technical definition - it is a reward for a behavior. So in theory, it is something that many work to and actually is pretty good in dog training. It's jackpots at the crate after ring runs. Or in practical dog ownership training, it is basically instilling the trust in the dogs that if they come back to the house after going potty, they will always get a treat. Or like with my Jacks - if he noms his thyroid pills, he always gets a treat. Another kind of bribe is if my dogs walk nice the whole 3 miles or whatever we do on a daily basis, when we get home I always take their leashes and collars off at the edge of our property and turn them loose to run and play. It never ceases to crack me up the last stretch as we come down our street and the dogs start perking up and getting ready to PLAY. <- Seriously speaking, rewards AFTER the dogs do something, I do believe in.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

So... do we not teach reward based training because it may take a little longer, or someone might get it 'wrong' and use a lure at the wrong time or place, or put a harness on their dog to keep them safe while they learn what they need to know? Or do we assume that the vast majority of those who want to use reward based training can get it 'right', and continue to teach and coach them in how to use this training method effectively?

That being said, my hope for this thread was to perhaps, provide a little help for those who choose reward based training to teach their dogs, perhaps to give a little support and hope to those who are having difficulties, perhaps give a little insight as to why, sometimes, things go 'wrong'. We make mistakes, our dogs make mistakes, and that is 'okay', it is all part of the learning process.


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## Chritty (Aug 17, 2014)

Charliethree said:


> So... do we not teach reward based training because it may take a little longer



That depends on context, doesn't it?.

If a dog behaves in a way that, if not corrected the fastest way possible, will see it surrendered and possible euthanised then surely the short route is the right one?


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I was referring to not teaching dog owners reward based training methods because it may take a little longer.

And no, based on the time (years) I have spent working and learning alongside a certified canine behaviorist/reward based trainer with years of experience working with dogs with behavior issues, many caused by taking the 'short route' - the 'short route' is not the right one.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Megora said:


> @Tippy - Luring and bribing are basically the same thing. Although in theory and looking at a different definition of bribing, I can think of ways that "bribing" is actually preferred - I'll get to that in a moment.


Well, if you redefine them, yes. I was trying to create a distinction between a way that's generally a better idea (rewarding with it rather than motivating with it), and one that tends to create bad habits in the handler and dog (showing first and then asking for behavior).



Megora said:


> Both behaviors are basically the use of X to bring a dog into position or produce a behavior from the dog.


To clarify the distinction I was trying to make, no, not at all. Rewards are designed to increase the likelihood of a behavior next time. Bribes are attempts to motivate the dog by showing the reward but not giving it yet. Again, this is a definition I'm using, not an official one, but I think it's really important for novice handlers to understand the difference so they don't become food dependent.



Megora said:


> Some amount of luring is OK when refining positions and behaviors - particularly with a green dog who doesn't have these behaviors instilled completely or needs a reminder.


I totally agree, but you have to be so careful with novice handlers. When the lure makes the behavior happen, the _handler_ is rewarded (because the behavior happened, yay!). This makes the handler more likely to lure again and less likely to risk failure by fading the lure. It can also make handlers food-dependent because they try to create complex behaviors (like a figure-8 heel) with a lure instead of breaking it down and really teaching the dog all the elements. If a dog needed a lure all the way through the 8, I might break it down into elements for him instead of relying on the lure so heavily. For example, I might lure a dog a little to teach him how to heel in straight line, then fade that lure, then lure the dog slightly when teaching him how to turn, then fade that, then try a figure-8, luring a teeny bit at the hard spots. That might seem like it would take longer, but I think you'll get a reliable food-free figure 8 faster than changing the lure position slightly after each repetition until it's gone. Either way could work, though. I just see so many people that become food dependent that I'm hyper aware of it and always thinking ahead about how to keep my students from getting stuck on that crutch.



Megora said:


> Even people who use treats all the time - you will reach a point where it just isn't convenient to have treats on your person but you might want to take your dog out anywhere and not have to worry about him being out of control or embarrassing.


I am so completely in agreement with you here. I think that having a dog who only obeys if you show him a treat is nearly as embarrassing to take into public as a dog you have to constantly collar correct. In both situations, the dog doesn't understand how to offer the behavior on its own, and I would say that dog isn't trained, just managed. Not that I'm against management. You need to learn to manage what you haven't trained yet in order to be safe with your dog in public, and I think that's a lifelong process.



Megora said:


> A lot of this stuff (as in foundation behaviors) ought to be taught early on when the dogs are puppies... and by the time they are adults, you should not need to have food on your person and/or harnesses of all kinds on the dogs to keep them under control. When training pet dogs to "JUST DO IT" - there doesn't need to be a lot of flair or fuss or exactness. You're not talking about heeling or perfect straight recalls with scoot sits....
> 
> 
> > Again, I totally agree. Ideally (exceptions abound), once a dog is an adult, you shouldn't need food or any equipment to get the basics out of him.
> ...


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Chritty said:


> That depends on context, doesn't it?.
> 
> If a dog behaves in a way that, if not corrected the fastest way possible, will see it surrendered and possible euthanised then surely the short route is the right one?


This hypothetical sounds convincing, at least until you realize that it essentially never plays out this way in the real world. Giving an owner a shortcut that is less effective in the long term but produces easy results is the definition of cutting a corner, and it sets the dog up to fail bigger later on.

Like if you have a dog who is growly or reactive and you teach the owner to terrorize that dog, you will reduce that behavior in 95% of cases (in the other 5%, somebody will get bitten trying it). But in the long term, that dog is going to be set up for a major incident. Perhaps you saved him from euthanasia (according to your hypothetical) for the week or the month, but I'd hardly call that the right route.

In the vast majority of the cases where an ordinary person (i.e., not a professional trainer or behaviorist) can be taught to deal with the problem, teaching the person to correct effectively isn't as efficient or reliable as teaching the person to reward effectively. The science backs this up, and the professional organizations back this up.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> I totally agree, but you have to be so careful with novice handlers. When the lure makes the behavior happen, the _handler_ is rewarded (because the behavior happened, yay!). This makes the handler more likely to lure again and less likely to risk failure by fading the lure. It can also make handlers food-dependent because they try to create complex behaviors (like a figure-8 heel) with a lure instead of breaking it down and really teaching the dog all the elements. If a dog needed a lure all the way through the 8, I might break it down into elements for him instead of relying on the lure so heavily. For example, I might lure a dog a little to teach him how to heel in straight line, then fade that lure, then lure the dog slightly when teaching him how to turn, then fade that, then try a figure-8, luring a teeny bit at the hard spots. That might seem like it would take longer, but I think you'll get a reliable food-free figure 8 faster than changing the lure position slightly after each repetition until it's gone. Either way could work, though. I just see so many people that become food dependent that I'm hyper aware of it and always thinking ahead about how to keep my students from getting stuck on that crutch.


 Oh - there's better ways to train f8's than just luring - I agree... and your top trainers out there do not actually just loop-loop around with a dog who is not doing it. My own teacher will not even let me take 2 steps if the attention is not there at the start. Because a lot of it is reinforcing attitudes/position with these dogs. If you let them do a behavior and it continues to the end and they get treats, they don't learn anything about how YOU want them to work, they just learn what apparently is acceptable and go with it. My instructor with Jacks drove me NUTS because she put us through 6-12 weeks of classes, and we did not complete a entire f8 the whole time. Because the f8 was broken into so many pieces that had to be built up/developed. 

A lot of people who need luring around the whole 8, generally did not train the bits and pieces, but just started doing the whole 8 right off. 



> Out in the world, I see more adult dogs handled with prong collars than I see treat bags or bribing.


 Probably where you are, but what I see between pets on this forum (and threads that come up) and out in the world that I saw in puppy classes and pet classes both with Jacks and Bertie when I did those - a lot of people were taught good advice, but generally by the time the dogs were 5-6 months old, out came the harnesses of all kinds. Because people don't want their arms pulled out of the sockets and don't want to be carrying treats all the time. 




> Bribing, in my book, is showing the treat (or whatever) in order to motivate the behavior


 And this falls under the same category/definition of luring then. Whether you have treats out, or you are patting/shaking a treats bag or doing the treat fingers stuff - you are luring. Which is OK with little puppies who know nothing (and one of my favorite pictures with Bertie when he was 9 weeks old was me training heel position with treats right at my leg where his face was and luring the whole time), but dogs who have been started in obedience and know a thing or two should not be kept at the same step. They should be moving on and fading the treats out of sight. 

I train with somebody who is primarily positive and does heavy reliance on treats and toys for motivation. And actually, she is very similar in method/thinking as a trainer I had back in the 90's. Very same concepts. Which isn't surprising, because a lot of the very successful people out there who are in the business of training their own dogs or getting their students successfully out into the ring.... this instructor especially refers to the top trainers who she learned from. People like that are more hybridized as far as developing methods that are "with the here and now" as far as being primarily rewards based and into shaping behaviors to a certain degree, but they do include a lot of proven stuff from the past (not just corrections, but includes corrections) when needed. 

This lady has been promoted by many for being positive only, but she's thankfully not. This is something I've spoken with her about... she knows my limits and pretty much right walking in the door for my first lesson with her, she handed me a booklet detailing the types of corrections she primarily recommends. Now these corrections are very common and mild and you're not going into scruff shakes, alpha pins, or any "beating the dog" kind of stuff. But they are corrections. And she's the first who will tell you that training with zero corrections takes a long time and with people who lack timing and persistence, it does not work. 

My other instructor who is primarily positive leaning as well has a beginning obedience class game that she plays with people who start classes with her. This is where she has the trainers team up with each other, with one person being a trainer and the other playing the role of the dog... and goals are training people to do X behavior while just using rewards. It was an EMBARRASSING and frustrating game to play whether you were the trainer or the dog. LOL. 

The next step where we were allowed to use both rewards and corrections (verbal "no") - was a lot easier and way less frustrating. And less embarrassing because we finished up faster - phew. 

The whole point of it was demonstrating how rewards and corrections are a huge part of communicating properly with the dog. And none of it was mean or cruel.

You do not have black or white and/or picking good/bad sides when it comes to just training your dogs and learning. Me personally - particularly since I am more chirpy and softer handed leaning when it comes to my boy babies, I'm really sick of everyone taking sides... and jumping into fights and just ridiculous insinuations about methods - which is what I saw elsewhere. 

This thread unfortunately comes about a week or so after me being annoyed by stuff I read at that other place by people who were making claims based on emotion only, and not actual experience promoted intelligence (or any intelligence). :doh: Sorry Charliethree - I'll shut up now.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Just want to toss this in - one of my friends has raised many puppies for the Seeing Eye organization. They train with praise, almost exclusively. (She admits to using a treat once in a while, but it's very very rare.) 
I'm not sure how old the puppies are when they start training, but the point is, it can be done without treats and without prong collars (I hate those things).


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## Chritty (Aug 17, 2014)

tippykayak said:


> This hypothetical sounds convincing, at least until you realize that it essentially never plays out this way in the real world. Giving an owner a shortcut that is less effective in the long term but produces easy results is the definition of cutting a corner, and it sets the dog up to fail bigger later on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fwiw, a lot of the reading I've done and also the trainers I've spoken are against the science and that is their real world experience. It seems to me a lot of people don't agree with the Skinner based research and more go back to Pavlov's. 

Is there a situation where you can see both the shorter method being used to cause inhibition and then the "longer" method being used to reinforce the inhibition and subsequent bahavior?


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Chritty said:


> Fwiw, a lot of the reading I've done and also the trainers I've spoken are against the science and that is their real world experience. It seems to me a lot of people don't agree with the Skinner based research and more go back to Pavlov's.
> 
> Is there a situation where you can see both the shorter method being used to cause inhibition and then the "longer" method being used to reinforce the inhibition and subsequent bahavior?


Skinner's pretty old school itself, and it doesn't contradict Pavlov so much as build on it. I'm talking about post-Skinner research on behavior persistence.

As far as inhibition, I find that straight inhibition just causes the emotion to get redirected (i.e., inhibit the growl and you get the bite). I can't really think of a real-world dog issue that works better by straight inhibition first. That's why I don't like to talk hypothetically.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Practice reinforcing 'offered' behaviors that you like. It is pretty common for us to ignore our dog when they are being 'good' and pay attention to them when they 'misbehave'. Fido is laying quietly on his bed, chewing on one of his toys, or he may 'offer' a sit when asking you to open the door, take note and give him a little praise or toss him a treat, let him know he is a 'good boy'. Reinforcing the behaviors we want to see more of, increases the chances our dog will choose to 'offer' that behavior again. 
A 'reinforcer' (reward) can be anything the dog 'likes', play, pets, praise, go for a walk or instinctively likes or 'needs' to do, it does not have to be food, the sooner we phase out the 'food' and incorporate other reinforcers the more reliable our dog's responses will be. We can reinforce good leash walking skills with 'life rewards', such a chance to 'go sniff', 'read the news' or even have bit of time off leash, we 'reinforce' that sit at the door, by opening the door so the dog can go out to potty or to sniff and play or that retrieve by immediately throwing the ball/toy again.


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## Brads035 (Apr 1, 2014)

I've been using treats, NILIF, reinforcement, and practical advice from Dr Ian Dunbar's website/videos in training and living with Cody. He is very obedient inside and outside in uncontrolled environments. He is 2.5 yrs old and my little companion, keeping an eye on me and taking direction from tiny hand gestures or verbal cues seamlessly throughout the day. When I am at home I like to play hide and seek games with toys and treats - if he can't find it he will look to me for help and over time learned to follow my pointing cues. In the park I signal if he should start running and gesture where I will throw the ball, or instruct him to stay and lie down for me to walk away and throw to him. He's good at directional cues in everything now, here/to gate/door/bench/couch/up down etc...I only failed miserably in teaching him to heel (he was attacked on leash as a puppy on a walk) and now he always charges ahead on leash acting like a scout ( but he never has a final destination in mind) - instead he responds to my verbal directions of "left/right/here/stop" and it's pretty funny how he will automatically stop at a bank or my favorite clothing store to see if I want to go in. Off leash, he runs ahead 10 paces, stops, and looks back every 10 seconds to make sure I am still there. If I stop or walk in another direction he zooms to me. It's definitely rewarding to see the training pay off and have a little companion.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Sounds like you have done a fantastic job with your pup! Kudos to you for taking the time to teach him what you want him TO do. 
Good job! Both of you!


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## Brads035 (Apr 1, 2014)

Thanks! I found out pretty early that Cody responded better to positive instructions/life rewards than me trying to give a negative correction. Or if I said no to a certain behavior (don't chew my sock) then I immediately offered him something he could do (let's play tug/fetch with wubba). I like the mantra that good habits are just as hard to break as bad habits and if I stay positive and focus on fun things to do, he is more apt to follow my instructions - because for all he knows, it could be the start of a new game/activity. Funny enough, Cody will even create his own games (his favorite being drop the ball behind mommy and hide to see if she can figure out where to throw it - with his head peeking out around the trunk of a tree, behind the knees of a person, or a fire hydrant - and usually never the same hiding spot twice!)


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

One of my adopted dogs spent his first six months with me totally off leash, - he was terrified of it, along with many other things. With no physical control, any behaviors he offered me were totally his 'choice', so I spent the time, while working with him to help him over the fear of the leash, simply acknowledging and rewarding the offered behaviors that I liked, and worked with him to put them on cue. During that six months, he quickly learned and became reliable with all the basic obedience skills, including walking 'with me', as if on leash. Once he was comfortable with being on leash, we spent more time rehearsing and rewarding those skills to help him understand, and it didn't take long, that those cues mean the same thing, regardless whether he was on or off leash, and when we were ready, took it 'on the road' and those walks were and still are, 'trouble' free.
If we teach them what we want them know, give them the freedom to choose, and help them to choose 'wisely' by reinforcing/rewarding them for doing so, they can and do, 'choose' reliably well.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

'Feed the dog.' 
He is not fond of people, finds them quite scary, does well with other dogs, but, even some of them give rise to barking and pulling on the leash. 
Walking in a local park, lots of people, not so many walking with dogs - perfect time to build his confidence, work to change how he feels in the face of 'danger', as he perceives them. 'Feed the dog', move off to the side, create some space, don't ask him to do anything, don't ask him to respond to a cue, he is focused on keeping himself safe, just 'feed the dog'. 'Feed the dog' change how he feels about those things that worry him, someone is approaching, step off to the side, feed the dog, keep feeding until they have passed by. Someone is coming from behind, easy to tell, he hears them, he is checking, worried, his tail drops, he looks for an escape route. Move him off of the path, allow him to see, feed the dog, as the 'danger' goes by. 'Feed the dog', not to distract or dissuade him from keeping an eye out, keeping himself safe, but to change how he feels about those things that worry him, so that, in time, those things that he feels are a danger become predictors of good things for him. 'Feed the dog'.

She loves people, wants to meet them all, barking and pulling on leash, so excited, can't contain herself, 'Please pet me!!' Move off to the side, stop, 'anchor' her, (stand on the leash about half way), stay still, wait for it, she will look at me, even for a split second -'Feed the dog'. She looks away, then quickly looks back, a little bit longer this time, 'feed the dog' two/three treats in a row. Right now, all I want is for her to look at me, she is choosing to do that, even briefly, feed the dog, she will do it again. With practice she is able to look at me longer, reward the behavior 'Feed the dog', and then I will ask her 'to do', 'Sit', she does, a little bit calmer now, (if she is sitting, she cannot ;misbehave' -pull on the leash, and is less inclined to bark) feed the dog, reward the behavior, help her learn what 'to do'. In time she learns enough self control, that when she sees someone she automatically looks at me, stays calm, waits for the cue to 'sit to greet' if the person is willing, or whether we will simply, pass by, move on. 'Feed the dog' reward the behavior, teach her what I want her 'TO DO', and in time, as those behaviors become 'automatic', she is offering them without the aid of a cue, I still 'feed the dog', but only randomly, occasionally with food. Her 'reward' for staying calm and maintaining her self control, 'behaving' more 'appropriately', becomes a 'life reward', something else she likes, praise and pets, or wants to do, whether it is to continue the walk, greet the person, or take a few minutes to play or 'go sniff'. 

'Feed the dog' - teach them what you want them 'to do', reinforce them for doing it, 'feed' the natural desire to repeat behaviors that are rewarding to them, and they will choose to repeat the behaviors you want from them.


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## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

This is a helpful thread. I like the essence of "capturing" the behavior you like and reinforcing for it (with either a treat, ear rub, whatever your pup values). For example, when Duke or Charlie are completely relaxed and lying down, I started saying "nice settle" and would offer a treat or a pet. They started associating positive things with the word settle. Now, when they are rough housing and getting pretty adrenalized, all I have to say is their name + settle. It works! 

I also agree to recognize what is making your dog anxious. The example you gave above about reading the signs when walking and approaching another or having somebody pass. Reading and understanding your dogs cues can change wonders. I adjusted my style after I kept forcing my rescue to walk through a place he was clearly uncomfortable (too many people, other dogs, train track overhead). I really liked walking that way because Duke and I had always gone that way. It was by the river and pretty. But it wasn't for Charlie and I started to question myself on the motivation for the walk. And when I recognized it was to spend time with my boys, get some exercise and for them to feel safe and having fun, I realized I needed to adjust the route. Now we go through a quiet residential area and it's a completely different experience for Charlie. Duke is fine either way.

Charliethree - I have learned a lot from your posts and the advice you have given since I adopoted my Charlie! Please keep sharing as it really helps


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