# Sending away for training Eastern Shore/ Dog needs help



## MaureenM (Sep 20, 2011)

I groomed a golden the other day, she's a year and a half old and beautiful, such a sweetheart. The poor girl is being kept outside in a very nice, clean, large enclosure, but is not allowed in the house. Breaks my heart. The family has 2 young children, 3 years and 1 1/2. Shortly after having the youngest, which must have fallen in the same time as when they brought the golden home, the wife became very ill and is currently home, but physically not able to train this dog. She has a lady coming in during the day to help with the children. Apparently the dog jumped on their baby and scratched her face and has been outside since. I suggested returning her to the breeder, or a rescue, but they are dead set on keeping this dog and eventually having her in the house. The lady said she would like to send her away for training, and then bring her back. The dog is not housebroken, and was wild on the leash going from the cadge to my grooming van. Wild as in jumping to the point where it was hard to walk. I so wish they would give this dog up. The lady seems to know they are people dogs and should never be kept outside, but says her husband brushes and plays with the dog daily and some how seems to think that makes up for it. She did say she was never meant to be an outside dog, and they would pay to have her trained. She also mentioned the children are an issue too in that they badger the dog, I guess they need training too. I would take this dog in a minute if I could but our house is too small and with two young dogs already my husband won't go for it. Even if she could be housebroken, I think the jumping would continue to be a problem even after a couple of weeks of training. For all the training Finley has had, I still have to remind her of that on occasion. I haven't been able to stop thinking of this dog, and still see her standing on her hind legs inside that cadge watching me leave. It sickens me to think of her out there by herself. I don't know of any place that takes dogs in for training, or anyone who would/could do that, but told her I would see if I could find any info out for her. We're in Southern Delaware, if there was a place for this dog to go, even far from here, I would help transport if the family is not able to. I'll try to post a picture later, in the mean time, any suggestions?


----------



## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

Very sad story. What about the husband taking the dog to a training class on the weekend or evening so he forms a better bond and knows how to handle the dog? In our area there is a place called Canine College that people send dogs for weeks at a time to be trained. Some people swear by it even though I think it's supposed to be rather expensive. It seems to me if the situation after the training isn't any different it can't be very effective.

Any chance of finding a foster home until the woman's health improves and the kids are a little older.


----------



## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

Unexpected unforeseen things happen all the time to families. I wouldn't be so quick to send her back to the breeder. I know how it must concern you about the dog not getting enough care. I agree she isn't. I certainly would not put my dog outside due to scratching a baby, although my husband probably would.  If I were in this situation and did not have a dog yet, I certainly would not aquire another dog as this would be a wrong time to get one. However, the fact that these people will not give up on this dog easily shows that they are willing to work hard to overcome these issues and not loose hope. To me that is a strength. When I got my first mixed breed puppy out of the newspaper, I didn't realize how much of a fircracker he would be. I ended up putting him outside in a kennel run. When I kept him the spare bedroom while on the crisis hot line about my mothers cancer one night, he tore the door completely up. Yes, my mom was dying of cancer even before I got the dog, but I was longing for a dog to keep me company in case my mother died, and she did less than a year later. I fought for years to hold on to him through thick and thin. I wont even get into the details of that. I learned the hard way as to how to responsibly care for a dog. For the most part, I was an inexperienced owner who had a dog that was not the best fit for first time dog owners (Lab/German Shepherd mix) , and not so much unforeseen events, although unexpected trials occured. I worked my butt off with this dog for years despite my hardships, breaking him in. I was also in college. I was working late one night (Coal was probably outside in his run at the time) on a college assignment when I was notified of my mother's death. Eventually, this dog Coal and I became a therapy dog team. There were stumbling blocks along the way, but we eventually were going steady in a therapy dog program. Coal and I even became a Delta Pet Partners therapy dog team. Coal has been to Walter Reed, John Hopkins Children's House, Sheppard Pratt and to University of Maryland Baltimore Washington Medical Center (Back then it was North Arundel) , and Holy Cross hospital as well as regularly going to an assisted living facility. I was going to get him READ certified, but then I got married. I retired him from therapy service at age 11. He lived to age 13. He was such a "Good Ole Boy!" 
Yes, he's the black dog in my signature. 

So next time you are tempted to take someone's dog, stop and think that maybe God has plans for the owner(s) to overcome the issues at hand. The best thing you can be right now is very supportive and find her some help. People should not loose their beloved dogs, just because they get into jams. Things can always be worked out.  Keep hope alive!


----------



## MaureenM (Sep 20, 2011)

TheZ's said:


> Very sad story. What about the husband taking the dog to a training class on the weekend or evening so he forms a better bond and knows how to handle the dog? In our area there is a place called Canine College that people send dogs for weeks at a time to be trained. Some people swear by it even though I think it's supposed to be rather expensive. It seems to me if the situation after the training isn't any different it can't be very effective.
> 
> Any chance of finding a foster home until the woman's health improves and the kids are a little older.


Canine College is the type of place the people are looking for, haven't seen something like that in our area, hoping someone may know of a place to recommend. I think they would open to fostering while the foster family works on training.


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I sometimes take dogs to board and train for people, but in my experience, that has limited helpfulness. It can certainly be nice when the dog goes away for a week or two and comes back with a "reset" on certain unwanted behaviors or with some good groundwork laid.

However, in situations like these, the problems are created by the situation the family is in. Now matter how good a job I did for a couple of weeks as a trainer, if the family makes no changes, the dog will revert fairly quickly. Most problem behavior training is 90% about training the humans and only 10% about training the dog.

For example, I could probably take a dog like this, crate train and housebreak her in my home and get her to walk politely on a leash for me, sit, lie down, come when called, and stop jumping on me and on friendly strangers out in town. I've done variations on that a couple of times with board-and-train Goldens (except the housebreaking), and it doesn't take all that long because the dog is in a brand new situation with brand new people, so the bad habits tend to be weakened from the start.

But, when you return the dog, the family can't continue to do the things they were doing before you started. The kids can't maul the dog, or the dog will learn to get all rambunctious around the kids. The family can't put the dog back in the backyard, or she'll become needy and wild again and have no chance to transfer the housebreaking to her own house. They can't just brush her and play once or twice a day, or she'll forget the new leash skills she learned. They taught her the undesired behaviors, so even if a terrific trainer totally retaught her, the family needs to change or they'll reteach her the undesired behaviors again.


----------



## MaureenM (Sep 20, 2011)

MercyMom said:


> Unexpected unforeseen things happen all the time to families. I wouldn't be so quick to send her back to the breeder. I know how it must concern you about the dog not getting enough care. I agree she isn't. I certainly would not put my dog outside due to scratching a baby, although my husband probably would.  However, the fact that these people will not give up on this dog easily shows that they are willing to work hard to overcome these issues, and to me that is a strength. When I got my first mixed breed puppy out of the newspaper, I didn't realize how much of a fircracker he would be. I ended up putting him outside in a kennel run. When I kept him the spare bedroom while on the crisis hot line about my mothers cancer one night, he tore the door completely up. Yes, my mom was dying of cancer even before I got the dog, but I was longing for a dog to keep me company in case my mother died, and she did less than a year later. I fought for years to hold on to him through thick and thin. I wont even get into the details of that. I learned the hard way as to how to responsibly care for a dog. For the most part, I was an inexperienced owner who had a dog that was not the best fit for first time dog owners (Lab/German Shepherd mix) , and not so much unforeseen events, although unexpected trials occured. I worked my butt off with this dog for years despite my hardships, breaking him in. I was also in college. I was working late one night (Coal was probably outside in his run at the time) on a college assignment when I was notified of my mother's death. Eventually, this dog Coal and I became a therapy dog team. There were stumbling blocks along the way, but we eventually were going steady in a therapy dog program. Coal and I even became a Delta Pet Partners therapy dog team. Coal has been to Walter Reed, John Hopkins Children's House, Sheppard Pratt and to University of Maryland Baltimore Washington Medical Center (Back then it was North Arundel) , and Holy Cross hospital as well as regularly going to an assisted living facility. I was going to get him READ certified, but then I got married. I retired him from therapy service at age 11. He lived to age 13. He was such a "Good Ole Boy!"
> Yes, he's the black dog in my signature.
> 
> So next time you are tempted to take someone's dog, stop and think that maybe God has plans for the owner(s) to overcome the issues at hand. The best thing you can be right now is very supportive and find her some help. People should not loose their beloved dogs, just because they get into jams. Things can always be worked out.


Hmmmm, maybe my post came across wrong. When I said I would "take" the dog, I meant to help in training the dog so it can go back to the owners and live in the house. I posted this hoping someone would know of a place or person who would be open and able to take this dog in, assist in training it, so it could be returned to it's owners and live in the house as Golden's should be able to do . I don't know how else to be "supportive" other than asking the question, and the lady is hopeful that a place for this dog can be found, just not on a permanent basis. The dog is getting enough and good "physical" care. It is apparent they love the dog and are doing the best that they can to keep the dog. If a solution can not be found, I do believe it is in the best interest of the dog to return it to the breeder or put the dog in rescue. As the dog has been living outside for over a year, I don't think suggesting that it be brought back to the breeder is too quick. Unforeseen things do happen, and which is why I believe most, if not all, reputable breeders will take a dog back rather than see it living outside. I know as part of my contract with both of our dogs, I had to agree that the dog would not be kept outside.


----------



## CStrong73 (Jun 11, 2012)

My parents had an overly rambunctious lab when we lived in Connecticut, that they sent away for training. The trainer was a breeder of labs who lived on an old farm with lots of acreage, a boarding kennel and a training facility in the upstairs of an old barn that had been rehabbed. I think they are quite distant from your location, and I am not positive they train other breeds. But they did a wonderful job with K.C.

If you don't find anything closer, I can see if my parents remember their names. 

I know he was a retired tv producer and had several Emmy awards sitting on his shelf from sports shows he'd produced.


----------



## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

This is the first time I am revealing this on the board, but back in January we had a personal trainer come to our house due to Mercy's mouthing and barking. She was someone whose son had autism and she had overcome ADD herself, so I thought she would be perfect for me. She is quite the pessimist. She was saying you had to keep Mercy busy throughout a good part of the day or else, her behavior would not get better. The third time she came, she strongly recommended returning Mercy to the breeder when she saw that I had to commute to the city to work and saw that my husband was unwilling to do the homework and apply the things she taught us, not to mention that we have an autistic child who needs alot of extra help. She didn't believe in me. She even told us that we should have consulted with her before getting a puppy and that she would have said no right off the bat. She was afraid that Mercy would turn aggressive due to her mental and physical needs not being met. My husband agreed with her of course! She basically quit on me and refused to help and support me in my time of need, because she thought I was unable to do my part according to her strict standards. She refunded my money too. I cried well into the night the night that she had told us to get rid of her. She wrote up a new contract saying that if she came back to help me, I would have to do everything she said to the T or else she would have us get rid of her. Of course I turned that down! Mercy lives inside with us though. I admit and confess that I sometimes leave her outside too long, but we have a secure 6 foot wooden fenced in yard. My husband is the one who puts her outside more even when I want her inside. Since she is behaving better now, my husband lets her stay in with us for most of the evening now. When I retire her for the night in the dining room sometimes, he will say as an excuse for her to not be around to bother him during his bedtime snack, "Doesn't she need to go outside one more time to use the bathroom first?"


----------



## MercyMom (Dec 19, 2011)

I would recomend Campbells K9s. Campbell's Canine Camp, we offer 3 different levels of dog training camps and dog boot camps for your individual needs with board and train services for Washington DC.

Even though they are far from you and your client, this was the first thing that came to my mind when you mentioned sending the dog away for training. I was considering doing this for Mercy, but decided it wasn't worth it for us.


----------



## KeaColorado (Jan 2, 2013)

Mercy's Mom, I'm so sorry to hear of that terrible experience.  

I wouldn't feel comfortable sending Kea off to be trained by someone else, especially without me there, especially if aversive methods would be used. There was a board and train guy near us recently who landed himself in jail because of the way he was treating clients' dogs without their knowledge. It turns my stomach. My main complaint about board and train, though, is that IMHO training is just as much about training the owners as it is about training the dogs. 

The flip side of that is that it takes a very, very special kind of dog trainer who has BOTH dog skills AND people skills. I have known dog trainers who got into dog training because they enjoyed dogs and perhaps naively didn't realize that dog training problems are often, at their heart, people problems. 

Do you think the family would be amenable to finding a good trainer to come to the house? What about keeping the dog inside and using crates/baby gates to keep her separated from the small children? A dog walker or jogger to take her out for some exercise during the day? And, if they're dead set on board and train, get references, check the place out, go and visit and watch a training session or two.


----------



## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

What about asking the dog's breeder for help? That would be my first call.


----------



## MaureenM (Sep 20, 2011)

tippykayak said:


> I sometimes take dogs to board and train for people, but in my experience, that has limited helpfulness. It can certainly be nice when the dog goes away for a week or two and comes back with a "reset" on certain unwanted behaviors or with some good groundwork laid.
> 
> However, in situations like these, the problems are created by the situation the family is in. Now matter how good a job I did for a couple of weeks as a trainer, if the family makes no changes, the dog will revert fairly quickly. Most problem behavior training is 90% about training the humans and only 10% about training the dog.
> 
> ...


I agree completely that the situation in the home needs to be addressed as well.


----------



## MaureenM (Sep 20, 2011)

MercyMom said:


> This is the first time I am revealing this on the board, but back in January we had a personal trainer come to our house due to Mercy's mouthing and barking. She was someone whose son had autism and she had overcome ADD herself, so I thought she would be perfect for me. She is quite the pessimist. She was saying you had to keep Mercy busy throughout a good part of the day or else, her behavior would not get better. The third time she came, she strongly recommended returning Mercy to the breeder when she saw that I had to commute to the city to work and saw that my husband was unwilling to do the homework and apply the things she taught us, not to mention that we have an autistic child who needs alot of extra help. She didn't believe in me. She even told us that we should have consulted with her before getting a puppy and that she would have said no right off the bat. She was afraid that Mercy would turn aggressive due to her mental and physical needs not being met. My husband agreed with her of course! She basically quit on me and refused to help and support me in my time of need, because she thought I was unable to do my part according to her strict standards. She refunded my money too. I cried well into the night the night that she had told us to get rid of her. She wrote up a new contract saying that if she came back to help me, I would have to do everything she said to the T or else she would have us get rid of her. Of course I turned that down! Mercy lives inside with us though. I admit and confess that I sometimes leave her outside too long, but we have a secure 6 foot wooden fenced in yard. My husband is the one who puts her outside more even when I want her inside. Since she is behaving better now, my husband lets her stay in with us for most of the evening now. When I retire her for the night in the dining room sometimes, he will say as an excuse for her to not be around to bother him during his bedtime snack, "Doesn't she need to go outside one more time to use the bathroom first?"


I'm glad you stopped using that trainer! From your posts it seems like Mercy is coming all great! And she is a beautiful girl!


----------



## MaureenM (Sep 20, 2011)

Actually Washington isn't that far, I'll let her know about it. Thanks!


----------



## Baggio (Oct 18, 2013)

That’s one of the problems of underestimating the work and effort it takes to become a really good dog owner…especially with parents who have young children and don’t give the poor dog as much attention as she deserves…really sad. 

I can kinda see where this is coming from - you’re really putting a lot of heart into helping this family, but I don’t think you can simply “send her away” and she’ll come back magically housetrained and perfectly well behaved…I think training has to be done WITH the family present, so if they’re such busy folks - that’s gonna be a toughie. 

Some alternatives - have they considered just sparing maybe a 2 - 3 hours a week working with a dog trainer who’ll give her classes at their place instead? I know this isn’t how it normally goes, but I really think training results are best observed when you’re actually there communicating with your dog, without that, it seems a bit distant, and if something goes wrong later, you’re hard pressed to do something about it - you didn’t train the dog yourself. 

Another alternative would be just to try and train the dog yourself? Here’s a pretty decent dog training resource we consulted in the early days, especially to do with house training, (yeah, we decided to do it ourselves - it felt MUCH more personal instead of sending Lucky away to a boot camp) if interested, linked to it on my site: Dog Training Kingdom | Overcome your dog training frustrations.... 

To me, though, I don’t mean to be blunt, but it seems like you care about the poor dog more than the family itself! 

Anyway, since mom’s already expressed an interest in having her trained, maybe you can start by talking to them about getting that done first? 

Again, it’s not really the optimal solution - really need to be present with the dog during training - but it’s better than no training at all.


----------

