# (new) Proposed Obedience Changes



## AmberSunrise

Thoughts, comments? These are now open for comment with the AKC 


After reviewing all items submitted, the Committee is in favor of the following concepts:

JUDGES GUIDELINES, GENERAL, PERFORMANCE AND JUDGING
1. JUDGES GUIDELINES:
a. Move relevant judges guidelines to the sections of the Regulations in which they apply.
b. Revise Exhibiting to: Judges (including provisional) may not handle dogs that are not owned or co-owned by themselves or a family member at obedience and or rally trials.

2. CLASS BRIEFINGS & START TIMES:
a. For classes with briefings, the briefing times will be listed and the class time will be stated “class to follow”.
b. Shorten briefing time to 10 minutes.
c. List classes starting after noon as “After Noon” rather than “to follow.”
d. If the judge and ring are available to start earlier than the stated time and all exhibitors have checked-in and agree, allow the judging to start earlier.

3. CLUBS:
a. Allow Clubs the option of providing 4‘or 5’ jumps for all classes with jump exercise.
b. Revise transfer verbiage to allow clubs the flexibility of accepting transfers prior to the day of a trial and up to the close of the current trial for the following day(s) events.
c. Require clubs to publish, in the premium list, if two trials in one day will be held concurrently or consecutively.
d. Allow clubs the flexibility to hold one trial over the course of 2 consecutive days. (Example: Novice classes on Saturday with Open and Utility classes on Sunday) [Event conflicts will still be in effect for trials held within 100 miles.]
e. Modify the emergency judge policy to allow clubs greater flexibility in finding a replacement judge when a previously approved judge cancels within 72 hours or less; allowing a judge with an event conflict to accept the emergency judge assignment without impacting future assignments.

4. EXHIBITING:
a. Allow exhibitors to steward, other than table stewarding, in the same ring under the same judge they will be showing under.
b. Revise the section regarding identification. Club clothing or AKC event clothing may be worn by anyone exhibiting a dog or by ring stewards. Clothing may display the person’s name, the dog’s call name and/or the dog’s picture. Titles may not be displayed. Writing or graphics on the clothing must not be in poor taste or contain profanity. Clothing must not display any information that would be in conflict with a sponsor of the trial.
c. Revise the section regarding deaf dogs so that they are eligible to compete.
d. Clearly state that a dog may be brought into and taken out of the ring on a leash that slips through the dogs collar in classes in which all the exercise are off leash.
e. Clearly state that leashes must be snapped to the collar when dogs are brought in for classes requiring on leash exercises, group exercises and awards.
f. Dogs may be picked up and carried in and out of the ring for judging.
g. The judge will call the qualifying handlers back into the ring without requiring the dogs to be brought back.
h. State exhibitors may leave the ring at any time by politely informing the judge they are doing so. Judges book to be marked “Handler left ring” and carry down an “NQ.”
i. Revise hand position for the heel free exercise: Hands must be held in a natural position; any position or movement of hands and or arms that the judge considers an aid to the dog will be penalized.

Novice:
a. Only one group stay exercise for 1 minute; sit or down, judge’s option, same for all dogs in the class that day.
b. Replace removed group exercise with a Recall over High Jump, dog would jump no less than ½ its height at the withers.
c. Require exhibitors to check in for group exercises immediately after completion of the individual exercises.
d. Dogs which have qualified during the individual exercise will have the option of returning for the group exercise. Dogs which have not qualified during the individual exercise will not return for the group exercise.
e. Require leashes to be left on the dogs during the group exercise.
f. Allow judges the option of deciding if the group exercise will be conducted after “X” number of dogs in the class or if there are more dogs than can be judged in one group, all the group exercises will be conducted after the last individual team is judged. Judges will post which manner the groups will be performed prior to the start of the class.

Open:
a. Broad Jump - allow the jump to be performed from either side of the jump, judges’ option, same for all dogs in the class that day. Requirement for hurdles to be positioned so the dog will be turning away from the ring barrier after landing would remain.
b. Only one group stay exercise for 3 minutes; sit or down, judge’s option, same for all dogs in the class that day.
c. Replace removed group exercise with an Open Stand for Exam
d. Require exhibitors to check in for group exercises immediately after completion of the individual exercises.
e. Dogs which have qualified during the individual exercise will have the option of returning for the group exercise. Dog which have not qualified during the individual exercise will not return for the group exercise.
f. Require leashes to be left on the dogs during the group exercise.
g. Allow judges the option of deciding if the group exercise will be conducted after “X” number of dogs in the class or if there are more dogs than can be judged in one group, all the group exercises will be conducted after the last individual team is judged. Judges will post which manner the groups will be performed prior to the start of the class.
h. Allow excused dogs to count towards OTCH points.

Utility:
a. Scent Discrimination - Allow handlers the option of supplying two different types of sets of articles from three different allowable types of articles: leather, metal or wood.
b. Scent Discrimination - State that it is the handlers decision if they have the dog watch the articles being put out; it is not required.
c. Scent Discrimination - State when the handler may take an article to scent it.
d. Scent Discrimination – State handlers are not allowed to pet their dogs while they are scenting the article.
e. Scent Discrimination – State that the dog will be sitting to begin this exercise.
f. Scent Discrimination – Clarify when the scoring of the exercise begins.
g. Directed Retrieve - Substantial penalty for the direction not given simultaneously or immediately following.
h. Directed Retrieve – Substantial penalty for lack of directness.
i. Directed Retrieve – Non-qualifying if the dog brings back an incorrect glove.
j. Moving Stand for Exam – Provide specific examination language to judges. (Exam verbiage adopted will be similar for Open and Utility)

Beginner Novice
a. Revise - Dogs with a CD, PCD or less will be eligible for this class.
b. Reduce walk through time from 15 to 10 minutes.
c. Sit Stay – State one command to stay, additional command to stay substantial penalty.
d. Revise recall scoring to clearly state how many commands/signals are they allowed and when.
e. Revise the wording about hands on the recall - not to be used as an aid.
f. State what exhibitors should do with the leash for the recall.
g. Run-Off Procedure – In case of a tie in the Beginner Novice class, the dog and handler will perform the Heel on Leash the same as it is performed in the Beginner Novice Heel on Leash exercise.

Grad Novice
a. Add scoring section for each exercise.
b. Add the dumbbell to the Retrieve over High Jump exercise.

Grad Open
a. Add scoring section for each exercise.
b. Signal Exercise – Revise to state minimum distance of 10' which will allow handlers to go further away from the dog.
c. Scent Discrimination – State the handler may choose which type of article is retrieved.
d. Go Out - State the handler must stand no closer than the center of the ring.
e. Change the order of the exercises to:
1. Signal Exercise
2. Scent Discrimination
3. Go Out
4. Directed Jumping
5. Moving Stand and Exam
6. Directed Retrieve

“Pre” Classes – Change the name for all “Pre” classes to “Preferred” classes. These classes are for exhibitors who prefer to use an alternative titling path, which allows them to exhibit in classes without group exercises and with jumps set no less than ½ the height of the dog. The “Preferred” classes will afford an opportunity for a greater variety of dogs, and their handlers to participate in the sport of obedience.

Pre – Utility
a. Add scoring section for each exercise.
b. Scent Discrimination – Revise to 10 articles (not 8).
c. Directed Retrieve – State it is the same exercise as in Utility.

NEW PUDX
a. PUDX – the dog must receive qualifying scores in both P-Open and P-Utility at 10 separate
licensed or member obedience trials.
b. Change the P-Open and P-Utility classes to include the same 6 mixed order of exercises allowed in Regular Classes with the same exercises, except no group exercises; and jumps are set to ½ the height of the dog at the withers.
c. If the PUDX title is approved revise the Signal Exercise to all signals without the permitted
verbal command.

NEW POTCH
a. Non-competitive champion title; points earned based on scores of 190 or better with a specific # of PUDX legs required.
b. OTCH dogs not eligible for the title.

NON REGULAR CLASSES
a. Remove the Sub-Novice, International and Advanced Teamwork classes. [Does not preclude a club from offering non-regular classes not described in the regulations. These may be approved by AKC by submitting a description of the class with the event application.

OTCH
1. Combine the tables and give the same # of points for Open and Utility (Based on Utility Table)
2. Table modification as follows:
TABLE 1
3. Combine the tables - Change points for Hawaii/ Alaska/ Puerto Rico – one table:
TABLE 2
4. Allow excused dogs to count.
Open B & Utility B

*************

Post 2nd OAC Meeting – NEW ITEMS 


1. CLUBS: 
a. No judge will be assigned to judge for more than eight hours in one day 
b. Number of dogs per hour to stay at 9, 8, 7 dogs per hour. 
c. EVENT SCEDULING: When a judge will be judging 6 or more classes a day, like classes MUST be grouped together. 
d. The Utility ring must never be less than 35 by 50 feet, and the Novice or Open ring must never be less than 30 by 40 feet. 


2. EXHIBITING: 
a. Remove “The judge must report to the AKC any dog that is not brought back for the group exercises.” 


3. Novice: 
a. Replace one (removed) group exercise with “Stay – Handler gets Leash” as the last individual exercise. Approximately 20’ from the gate area the Judge will order the handler to place the dog in the sit or down position and to gets the leash. Handler will return to dog and judge will order Exercise Finished. Same position will be used for all dogs in the class. 
b. Prior to the start of the class the judge will determine and post the position for the “Stay – Handler gets Leash” and the Group Exercise. Whichever position is not being used in the individual stay will be used in the Group Stay Exercise. 
c. REVISED Novice Class Exercises: i. Figure Eight on Leash – 20 points 
ii. Stand for Exam – 30 points 
iii. Heel Free – 40 points – Regular heeling pattern 
iv. Heel, Drop & Recall – Heel forward, down dog, leave dog, call dog - 30 points. 
(Judge will order team to heel, down dog, leave dog, handler goes to other end of the ring, Judge will order call dog as in the Novice Recall) 
v. Recall – 30 points 
vi. Stay – Handler gets Leash – 20 points 
vii. Group Stay 1 minute (on leash) – 30 points 


4. Open: 
a. Broad Jump – Allow handler the choice of where to stand, either alongside the jump or about 10 feet beyond the jump. Either position will require the handler to pivot in place while the dog is in midair. 
b. Replace one (removed) group exercise with a “Stand Stay – Handler gets Leash” exercise as the last individual exercise. 
c. Group Exercise – Sit or Down, Judge’s option, posted before starting the class, 3 minutes, no leashes. 


5. Utility: 
a. Scent Discrimination: Scoring of the exercise will begin when the judge orders “You may take an article.” 
b. Post the Glove # 30-45 minutes prior to the start of the class. 


6. Beginner Novice 
a. A dog without any AKC obedience title which was mistakenly entered in a Novice obedience class may have the entry transferred to the Beginner Novice class provided the host club allows transfers. 


7. Grad Novice 
a. Change the heeling exercise to Heel Free & Figure 8 (off leash) 
b. Remove Dumbbell Recall and replace with Object Retrieve - handler to provide an object of their choice, (no food, no noise and must not easily roll out of the ring) for the retrieve. Object must be thrown at least 10 feet. 
c. Removed recommendation to have a dumbbell in Recall over High Jump. 
d. Group Stay – Sit or Down, Judge’s option, posted before starting the class, 3 minutes, no leashes. 


8. Preferred classes: Pre-classes will be renamed as Preferred classes. 
a. Clubs must offer all of the Preferred class levels (Preferred Novice, Preferred Open and Preferred Utility) equivalent to the Regular class levels offered at events. 
b. Scores and points for the PUDX and POC titles will be grandfathered. 
c. A dog must have a PCD, CD title or higher title from the Regular classes to enter P-Open and P-Utility. 
d. Add a HIT and HC award for the Preferred Title Track. 
e. P-Novice – Exercises are the same as the remodeled Novice class without a group exercise. 
f. P-Open – Use the same 6 orders of exercises that are used in the Regular Class without a group exercise. 
g. P-Utility – Use the same six orders of exercises that are used in the Regular Class. 
h. Utility Signal Exercise – REMOVE exception that allows the handler to use a verbal command during the signal portion. 
i. Post the Glove # 30-45 minutes prior to the start of the class. 


9. POC – Preferred Obedience Champion 
Dog’s Score 
Points Awarded 
Dog’s Score 
Points Awarded 
190 
6 
195.5 
12 
190.5 
6 
196 
12 
191 
6 
196.5 
12 
191.5 
6 
197 
15 
192 
9 
197.5 
15 
192.5 
9 
198 
15 
193 
9 
198.5 
15 
193.5 
9 
199 
15 
194 
9 
199.5 
15 
194.5 
9 
200 
15 
195 
12 



10. OPTIONAL TITLING CLASSES Clubs may offer in addition to the Regular & Preferred classes: 
a. Beginner Novice, Graduate Novice, Graduate Open and Versatility 


11. NON REGULAR CLASSES 
a. ALLOW Rally Judges to judge Non-Regular Classes – Wild Card Classes, Brace, Team, Veterans. 
b. Wild Card Classes - The team will not perform the selected wild card exercise. Team will receive the full point value for WC exercise.


----------



## MaureenM

Thanks for posting all of this, makes it easy to read it all in one spot with the new revisions included.


----------



## Megora

Gotta say I didn't notice before the one about splitting obedience classes over more than one day. If novice were held on Fridays.... I have to think it would be more of a problem for a lot of people to enter multiple trials a year with their dogs.... and if Open and Utility were pushed into Sundays, that would be a hardship for.... well, ME. I have obligations on Sunday which can't be skipped for dog shows. 



> 3. Novice:
> a. Replace one (removed) group exercise with “Stay – Handler gets Leash” as the last individual exercise. Approximately 20’ from the gate area the Judge will order the handler to place the dog in the sit or down position and to gets the leash. Handler will return to dog and judge will order Exercise Finished. Same position will be used for all dogs in the class.
> 
> *^ In my opinion this is dumbing down novice obedience to the level of beginner novice or rally.*
> 
> b. Prior to the start of the class the judge will determine and post the position for the “Stay – Handler gets Leash” and the Group Exercise. Whichever position is not being used in the individual stay will be used in the Group Stay Exercise.
> c. REVISED Novice Class Exercises: i. Figure Eight on Leash – 20 points
> 
> *^ This doesn't matter to me now that I generally have a better heel off leash than I do on leash with my dogs. But as a novice A person, I remember thinking of the on leash pattern as a warm up before I had to go back and do it again off leash. It could have a calming effect that way.*
> 
> ii. Stand for Exam – 30 points
> iii. Heel Free – 40 points – Regular heeling pattern
> iv. Heel, Drop & Recall – Heel forward, down dog, leave dog, call dog - 30 points.
> 
> (Judge will order team to heel, down dog, leave dog, handler goes to other end of the ring, Judge will order call dog as in the Novice Recall)
> 
> *^ I don't technically have a huge problem with this other than I don't see the point of adding another recall exercise immediately BEFORE the actual recall. Considering my novice dog right now is being kept out of actual trials because he anticipates the call to front, I'm not exactly thrilled about an additional exercise in novice requiring a call to front.*
> 
> v. Recall – 30 points
> vi. Stay – Handler gets Leash – 20 points
> 
> *Dumbing down stuff.... *
> 
> vii. Group Stay 1 minute (on leash) – 30 points
> 
> *How long are these leashes? 6 foot? 15 foot? 30 foot? *
> 
> *I'm probably fairly OKAY about there only being a 1 minute group stay in novice to worry about, but....*





> 4. Open:
> a. Broad Jump – Allow handler the choice of where to stand, either alongside the jump or about 10 feet beyond the jump. Either position will require the handler to pivot in place while the dog is in midair.
> 
> *^^^ This will make training broad jumps a heckova lot easier!* *LOL. Or more difficult since it will essentially require you to stand well over 20 feet away from a needy dog.... and my question is the perception of one exercise over another... if one person trains their dog to go over the broad jump and pivot around to where the handler is standing in the normal place.... that is equal in scoring to another person standing in a more guiding position well past the jump?*
> 
> b. Replace one (removed) group exercise with a “Stand Stay – Handler gets Leash” exercise as the last individual exercise.
> 
> *What.....? Is a stand stay supposed to be more difficult than a sit/down stay that you have to do in novice? I don't see the point in this. *
> 
> 
> c. Group Exercise – Sit or Down, Judge’s option, posted before starting the class, 3 minutes, no leashes.
> 
> *They don't indicate if these are out of sight.... leave me to assume that they are essentially bumping the current novice stays into Open while they have the novice people do.... beginner novice stays. *





> 7. Grad Novice
> a. Change the heeling exercise to Heel Free & Figure 8 (off leash)
> b. Remove Dumbbell Recall and replace with Object Retrieve - handler to provide an object of their choice, (no food, no noise and must not easily roll out of the ring) for the retrieve. Object must be thrown at least 10 feet.
> 
> *I seriously don't understand why a class preparing teams for OPEN would have the dog retrieving anything but a dumbbell. Unless this is pandering to people who simply can't convince their dogs to take a dumbbell in their mouth and would use a TOY instead. Which you have to think a lot of people would be bringing their tug toys or toys that prior to showing had treats zipped up inside....*
> 
> *At least with the dumbbell retrieve over the high jump - this made sense because majority of the time when people begin introducing the ROHJ - they are placing the dumbbell in the dog's mouth, going over to the other side of the jump and calling the dog over.*


 I have no opinion either way on the preferred classes. <- OK, I'm kinda hyped up about them for Jacks, but at this point I don't really care what changes they make, providing they don't bump up the jumps or add stays.


----------



## Ljilly28

I just have an old(young) grouch type comment. I hate change. I am used to it, I know the routine by heart, I really dont feel like coping with change! lol 

I am still kind of grouchy that the way SATS are scored changed, so I am not going to be enthusiastic about this.


----------



## Titan1

Don't get me started.. if these silly changes happen to Novice I will hurry Mighty through to finish his title..What rubbish...I understand safety and all that.. but really??
How about AKC lower the entries.. I might even start showing again in the other classes so Titan can have some fun.. who can really afford three classes in a weekend, motels, travel and eating..
Back when I was showing Titan it was about the fun and traveling with a friend. We knew all the cheaper motels that were still decent enough to stay in.
Now even the cheap motels have raised their prices if they know if a dog show is in the area.. grr..


----------



## Megora

@Michelle - I tentatively looked into showing in both Rally and Conformation at the end of this month when I do a cluster.... the cost of entries alone would be $180. 

When you compare to somebody else spending $16/entry in agility....


----------



## AmberSunrise

around my area to run 1 dog in 2 classes (STD & JWW) for 2 days, the fees are generally $88-92. I run 2-3 dogs

Add more dogs or more classes and the cost just keeps getting higher and is starting to require serious budgeting and care in entering trials. Add in meals, travel etc and I am now finding better uses for my entertainment budget other than a trial here & there


----------



## Maxs Mom

But agility can have more entries per class that's why the fees are lower. More entries to make up the cost.


----------



## Megora

Maxs Mom said:


> But agility can have more entries per class that's why the fees are lower. More entries to make up the cost.


But with obedience entries dropping off... you aren't even close to limits for these shows. 

I kinda remember back in the 90's - we actually ran into those limited entry shows filling up before closing. I don't believe that happens now. 

I was talking to other golden people and they weren't even making the trip to this year's golden specialty out at Port Huron because it's generally a low entry for obedience and if they are hunting for OTCH points, it's not worth the trip. 

And I was there at that show even though I didn't enter any dog in obedience - it was kinda sad to see how empty the obedience building was and comparing it to past years when it was definitely a lot tighter as far as people packing it in there to show their goldens. 

It's silly hiring a judge and paying for rent of an obedience building at some of these shows if the judging is complete well before noon! 

It's not just obedience. Conformation is confusing when it comes to goldens - and I don't know if there are fewer goldens being shown now or if it comes down to dogs being finished quickly or kept out of shows until they can finish quickly. But I'm going down to show in a golden specialty in Ohio and it's a little confusing to see that there's fewer goldens entered in that show than there were in an all breed show just this past weekend. And for that matter, the entries for other breeds were way past double what the entries for goldens were. 

^^^^ I think there are other reasons why people are not entering obedience as much now (it comes down to time to train, training facility availability, and advertisement and encouragement of competition obedience to people new to dog training), but if you have people who just finished up their agility titles and are now looking into obedience to keep doing stuff with their dogs.... these people get the air knocked out of them when they see the prices are double what they paid for agility. At least here....


----------



## Melfice

Megora said:


> But with obedience entries dropping off... you aren't even close to limits for these shows.
> 
> I kinda remember back in the 90's - we actually ran into those limited entry shows filling up before closing. I don't believe that happens now.
> 
> I was talking to other golden people and they weren't even making the trip to this year's golden specialty out at Port Huron because it's generally a low entry for obedience and if they are hunting for OTCH points, it's not worth the trip.
> 
> And I was there at that show even though I didn't enter any dog in obedience - it was kinda sad to see how empty the obedience building was and comparing it to past years when it was definitely a lot tighter as far as people packing it in there to show their goldens.
> 
> It's silly hiring a judge and paying for rent of an obedience building at some of these shows if the judging is complete well before noon!
> 
> It's not just obedience. Conformation is confusing when it comes to goldens - and I don't know if there are fewer goldens being shown now or if it comes down to dogs being finished quickly or kept out of shows until they can finish quickly. But I'm going down to show in a golden specialty in Ohio and it's a little confusing to see that there's fewer goldens entered in that show than there were in an all breed show just this past weekend. And for that matter, the entries for other breeds were way past double what the entries for goldens were.
> 
> ^^^^ I think there are other reasons why people are not entering obedience as much now (it comes down to time to train, training facility availability, and advertisement and encouragement of competition obedience to people new to dog training), but if you have people who just finished up their agility titles and are now looking into obedience to keep doing stuff with their dogs.... these people get the air knocked out of them when they see the prices are double what they paid for agility. At least here....


So you think the cost of obedience is one of the reasons for the lower numbers then? I don't have my golden in obedience at all, but he is in agility and K9 Nose Work. Rusty is doing great there, and we are have a blast.

My Brittany who needs obedience work (in general), she is in Beginner Competition Obedience class right now. I enjoy it more than I thought I would, but its to build Kerrie Ann's confidence and her focus. I'm not sure I'll ever trial with her. Its a fun class but I think Competition Obedience is more for the owner than the dog.

With Agility and K9 Nose Work...the dogs have a lot of fun working as a team. With Obedience I don't think they get the same feeling. I could be wrong, but I plan on having my Brittany in the Obedience class for a while.

Brittanys are more of a challenge to focus outside the house lol. Kerrie Ann would never even listen to me when she was in the backyard. She was chasing moths, bugs and on "the lookout" as I call it. Way different from my golden and Pomeranian that's for sure


----------



## Megora

Melfice said:


> So you think the cost of obedience is one of the reasons for the lower numbers then?


With some of the older (meaning been in obedience for a long time) people - yes. 

But not with new people. New people - I think it is lack of advertisement and encouragement. And then when they actually do get the bug, there's not a lot of ways to really train their dogs in public. Not enough actual obedience clubs in their area. Not enough affordable classes offered. Not enough knowledgeable instructors teaching the puppy classes and able to give those puppy owners a good foundation for dog training. More emphasis on putting prongs and harnesses on dogs for better control on walks and not enough emphasis on actually training your dogs so you could have them working off leash, etc. 

Basically a lot of stuff which the AKC has no power over. What goes on in your area depend on the actual obedience people in your area.



> I think Competition Obedience is more for the owner than the dog


 I'm excited about the preferred classes because my Jacks LOVES obedience, but I can't ask him to jump that high anymore. It's not worth it to me to push him so hard that he has no joy in training. And this is a dog who goes all turbo-butt when he's retrieving his dumbbells and heeling with me. He loves it. He has no concept of it being "work". He thinks it's all play. Jumps and stays are not fun for him, but that problem is being fixed with preferred classes. 

If competition obedience becomes more for me than my dogs... it's time to retire them and let them be regular family dogs.


----------



## Ljilly28

Another reason is culture itself now has an "everyone gets a trophy" mentality. Even though I dont have anything against Cynosport, CDSP Obedience , UKC, Wag It Games and the bazilion other easier venues, lots of people who might have done entry level AKC and gotten hooked become diverted by these easier venues . There's nothing wrong with it, but it is bad for AKC. CDSP Home Page


----------



## Melfice

Megora said:


> I'm excited about the preferred classes because my Jacks LOVES obedience, but I can't ask him to jump that high anymore. It's not worth it to me to push him so hard that he has no joy in training. And this is a dog who goes all turbo-butt when he's retrieving his dumbbells and heeling with me. He loves it. He has no concept of it being "work". He thinks it's all play. Jumps and stays are not fun for him, but that problem is being fixed with preferred classes.
> 
> If competition obedience becomes more for me than my dogs... it's time to retire them and let them be regular family dogs.


Interesting points, and maybe my view of competition obedience is not correct then. One thing I like about my new competition obedience class...the teacher makes it a lot of fun for us and the dogs.

I think that's important, but I wonder if I can get thru with my Brittany 100%. She can lose her focus, and if there are birds or a squirrel around...forget it I lost Kerrie Ann, and she does not even know I'm there lol

One thing tho...her focus has been a lot better lately which is a good thing. Maybe with time Kerrie Ann can have focus enough to compete in Obedience, and you never see Brittanys in the ring I hear haha


----------



## Megora

Michigan Brittany Club - Agility, Obedience and Lure Coarsing

They can do obedience.


----------



## Megora

Ljilly28 said:


> Another reason is culture itself now has an "everyone gets a trophy" mentality. Even though I dont have anything against Cynosport, CDSP Obedience , UKC, Wag It Games and the bazilion other easier venues, lots of people who might have done entry level AKC and gotten hooked become diverted by these easier venues . There's nothing wrong with it, but it is bad for AKC. CDSP Home Page


I've actually never heard of those others (I can guess they are similar to C-Wags though)... but UKC obedience though is not easier than AKC obedience. I never did it with my Danny and then my Jacks because there's a jump in novice and you have an honor stay.

UKC conformation - yep. It's very much like a very organized match in comparison to showing in AKC.


----------



## Melfice

Megora said:


> Michigan Brittany Club - Agility, Obedience and Lure Coarsing
> 
> They can do obedience.


WOW those pictures of the brittanys are awesome! It gives me hope for Kerrie Ann, and I need to have a lot more one-on-one training and time with her. 

With Rusty, who has his CGC title and is much better trained was alone for one year before I got Kerrie Ann. And I have a Pomeranian who just tried one years old. Finding the time to train all three is a challenge between their classes (4 times a week), and I take Rusty and Kerrie Ann on long walks every night (2+ hours).

I'm going to need to keep two of the dogs away from Kerrie Ann and I so I can really work on her training. And the same needs to be done with my Pomeranian. 

I would hate to cut the walk times down, because I have been losing a good amount of weight, and my pups LOVE their walks. So much to do, and so little time to work with


----------



## Loisiana

Melfice said:


> With Agility and K9 Nose Work...the dogs have a lot of fun working as a team. With Obedience I don't think they get the same feeling.


My dogs disagree! And I think obedience is one of the ultimate team sports.


----------



## Titan1

I have shown Titan for 8 years in obedience and he is as still excited and having a grand time now as he did as a puppy. Trust me it is about him and us having a good time. Titan is loving it even semi retired.. he is the 1st one to the door and the 1st one ready to show ..if you do it right they love it!


----------



## MaureenM

I've only done obedience. I would like to try other things with both dogs, but time is my constraint. I work every other Saturday and Sunday. If I have the weekend off, I work the Friday before, 3-11 shift. A big problem we have is finding Show N Goes, which I think are important before actually entering a trial. This month, for example, I found one Show N Go that we can reasonably attend. It is on a Sat. that I work, but I'll be home in time to get to work. I have signed Banshee up for it. We will leave the house by 6AM for an 8:30 am ring time, which we have 6 minutes allotted to us. There are no other opportunities (that I could find) within a reasonable driving distance. Reasonable in less then 3 hours....

I also think obedience is a great team sport. Finley, although far from perfect, loves it and is a great team player! Banshee, on the other hand, has been a bit difficult with her attention going other places...In fact, I have thought I might try for just a CD on her, (because I think all those skills are important) and then maybe try something else with her that she might enjoy more. (I think no matter what we do, timing is going to be an issue, might be where we live...). In the past month or so, I'm seeing a change in her. She's always been happy when she sees her collar come out and knows it's her turn, BUT, her overall attitude is better. She actually seems to be having fun! Thank goodness, because too much of me feeling like I'm by myself out there despite the dog being physically with me is enough to make me say the heck with this .
If this was just about me, I would have quit a long time ago. It's too much work if my partner isn't enjoying it too.


----------



## AmberSunrise

I do CDSP and find it very fun - it is somewhat popular in my area since the exercises add complexity (ex: Moving Stand at the Novice level) and we have the ability to support our dogs verbally if wanted or needed. 



Ljilly28 said:


> Another reason is culture itself now has an "everyone gets a trophy" mentality. Even though I dont have anything against Cynosport, CDSP Obedience , UKC, Wag It Games and the bazilion other easier venues, lots of people who might have done entry level AKC and gotten hooked become diverted by these easier venues . There's nothing wrong with it, but it is bad for AKC. CDSP Home Page


----------



## Ljilly28

Sunrise said:


> I do CDSP and find it very fun - it is somewhat popular in my area since the exercises add complexity (ex: Moving Stand at the Novice level) and we have the ability to support our dogs verbally if wanted or needed.


It is fun! Many ,many clients find it more fun, so they bypass AKC completely. I went to Cynosport Rally a few years ago, and there is really active discouragement from doing AKC. I am not sure what I think about it, either . AKC needs to be more fun to attract these people? The people need to embrace the idea of working harder for fewer rewards, lol? I like the challenge of AKC the best, because the wins mean more to me, and I try to direct my clients to the AKC. The AKC used to be the only game in town, but is not now.

The multiplicty of other venues, and the "easier" nature of them, I think contributes to why the new rules.


----------



## BriGuy

Ljilly28 said:


> It is fun! Many ,many clients find it more fun, so they bypass AKC completely. I went to Cynosport Rally a few years ago, and there is really active discouragement from doing AKC. I am not sure what I think about it, either . AKC needs to be more fun to attract these people? The people need to embrace the idea of working harder for fewer rewards, lol? I like the challenge of AKC the best, because the wins mean more to me, and I try to direct my clients to the AKC. The AKC used to be the only game in town, but is not now.
> 
> The multiplicty of other venues, and the "easier" nature of them, I think contributes to why the new rules.


Interesting, I'd never even heard of CDSP before, and I looked at the link and there is an event at the place I train on the 11th! I'm fairly new to obedience trials in general, and all the classes I've seen have been geared toward AKC exercises.


----------



## Lucky Penny

Titan1 said:


> I have shown Titan for 8 years in obedience and he is as still excited and having a grand time now as he did as a puppy. Trust me it is about him and us having a good time. Titan is loving it even semi retired.. he is the 1st one to the door and the 1st one ready to show ..if you do it right they love it!


I agree! I was working Luna the other day in agility and afterwards when she was tired we went inside. I didn't have time to do what I wanted to do because with in 10 minutes she was at the door ready to work again. She LOVES to work and we have a ball together.


----------



## Lucky Penny

Megora said:


> Gotta say I didn't notice before the one about splitting obedience classes over more than one day. If novice were held on Fridays.... I have to think it would be more of a problem for a lot of people to enter multiple trials a year with their dogs.... and if Open and Utility were pushed into Sundays, that would be a hardship for.... well, ME. I have obligations on Sunday which can't be skipped for dog shows.
> 
> I have no opinion either way on the preferred classes. <- OK, I'm kinda hyped up about them for Jacks, but at this point I don't really care what changes they make, providing they don't bump up the jumps or add stays.


I agree with your thoughts. I have sent in my thoughts to AKC and I hope everyone else does as well. We need to let them know how we feel.


----------



## Ljilly28

BriGuy said:


> Interesting, I'd never even heard of CDSP before, and I looked at the link and there is an event at the place I train on the 11th! I'm fairly new to obedience trials in general, and all the classes I've seen have been geared toward AKC exercises.


It will be so cool to keep in touch with your impressions- if you like the friendliness of CDSP better or you like the tradition and challenge of AKC better, or if you will simply want to do both.


----------



## Alaska7133

Does anyone know the schedule for implementing these changes? I went to the AKC website to check if the new rule book is there, but it still shows one from 2013. Lots of other rule change for other AKC venues. My next obedience trial isn't until March so I've got time to adjust I hope. I wonder how hard it will be for the judges to know all these new rules? That has to be a lot of work for them.


----------



## Megora

I don't think they've approved anything. Still in voting.


----------



## Lucky Penny

It will be interesting to see what happens.


----------



## TheZ's

I was just on the AKC website (don't like the new format) looking for the Obedience Regs. It looks like changes have been approved effective December 2015. Anybody have any comments about what was approved?


----------



## Nairb

^^Starts on P. 7 at the link. Text is below. 
Board Meeting Minutes - American Kennel Club

JUDGES GUIDELINES, GENERAL, PERFORMANCE AND JUDGING
JUDGES GUIDELINES
1. Move relevant judges guidelines to the sections of the Regulations in 
which they apply.
2. Revise Exhibiting to: Judges (including provisional) may not handle 
dogs that are not owned
or co-owned by themselves or a family member at obedience and or rally 
trials.
CLASS BRIEFINGS & START TIMES
3. For classes with briefings, the briefing times will be listed and the 
class time will be stated
“class to follow”.
Bd. Pg. 8 March 10-11, 2015
4. Shorten briefing/walkthrough time to “up to 10 minutes” (instead of 
15 minutes).
5. List classes starting after noon as “After Noon” rather than “to 
follow.”
6. If the judge and ring are available to start earlier than the stated 
time and all exhibitors have
checked-in and agree, allow the judging to start earlier. (May not start 
a 2nd trial on the same
day before the published start time.)
CLUBS
7. Clarify transfer verbiage to make it clear that clubs have the 
flexibility of accepting transfers
prior to the day of a trial (but must be completed at least 30 minutes 
prior to the start of each trial
as it is currently worded).
8. Require clubs to publish, in the premium list, if two trials in one 
day will be held concurrently
or consecutively.
9. Modify the emergency judge policy to allow clubs greater flexibility 
in finding a replacement
judge when a previously approved judge cancels within 72 hours or less; 
allowing a judge with
an event conflict to accept the emergency judge assignment without 
impacting future
assignments.
10. No judge will be assigned to judge for more than eight hours in one 
day.
11. EVENT SCEDULING: It is strongly recommended that classes with like 
ring set-ups are
grouped together. Put in book which classes are classes with “like 
set-ups.”
EXHIBITING
12. Allow exhibitors to steward, other than table stewarding, in the 
same ring under the same
judge they will be showing under.
13. Clearly state that a dog may be brought into and taken out of the 
ring on a leash that slips
through the dogs collar in classes in which all the exercise are off leash.
14. Clearly state that leashes must be snapped to the collar when dogs 
are brought in for classes
requiring on leash exercises, group exercises and awards.
15. The judge will call the qualifying handlers back into the ring 
without requiring the dogs to be
brought back in for awards.
16. State exhibitors may leave the ring at any time by politely 
informing the judge they are doing
so. Judges book to be marked “Handler left ring” and carry down an “NQ.”
17. Remove “The judge must report to the AKC any dog that is not brought 
back for the group
exercises.”
NOVICE
18. Dogs which have qualified during the individual exercise will have 
the option of returning
for the group exercise.
19. Require exhibitors to check in for group exercises immediately after 
completion of the
individual exercises.
20. Require leashes to be left on the dogs during the group exercise.
21. Allow judges the option of deciding if the group exercise will be 
conducted after “X” number
of dogs in the class or if all the group exercises will be conducted 
after the last individual team is
judged.
OPEN
22. Dogs which have qualified during the individual exercise will have 
the option of returning
for the group exercise. Bd. Pg. 9 March 10-11, 2015
Require exhibitors to check in for group exercises immediately after 
completion of the individual
exercises.
24. Allow judges the option of deciding if the group exercise will be 
conducted after “X” number
of dogs in the class or if there are more dogs than can be judged in one 
group, all of the group
exercises will be conducted after the last individual team is judged.
UTILITY
25. Scent Discrimination - Allow handlers the option of supplying two 
different types of sets of
articles from three different allowable types of articles: leather, 
metal or wood.
26. Scent Discrimination - State that it is the handler’s decision if 
they have the dog watch the
articles being put out; it is not required.
27. Scent Discrimination - State when the handler may take an article to 
scent it.
28. Scent Discrimination – State that the dog will be sitting to begin 
this exercise.
29. Scent Discrimination - The scoring of this exercise will not begin 
until the judge gives the
order "Choose an article.”
30. Directed Retrieve - Substantial penalty (currently NQ) for the 
direction not given
simultaneously or immediately following.
31. Directed Retrieve – Substantial penalty for lack of directness.
32. Directed Retrieve – Non-qualifying if the dog brings back an 
incorrect glove.
33. Moving Stand for Exam – Provide specific examination language to 
judges on how to
perform the exam. (Exam verbiage adopted will be similar for Open and 
Utility.)
34. Post the Glove # 30-45 minutes prior to the start of the class.
REGULAR CLASSES – OTCH
35. A dog that leaves the place where it was left during the first group 
exercise must be released
from the remaining group exercise and should count as a dog defeated.
BEGINNER NOVICE
36. Revise - Dogs with a CD, PCD or less will be eligible for this class.
37. Reduce walk through time from “15 minutes” to “up to 10 minutes.”
38. Sit Stay – State one command to stay, additional command to stay 
substantial penalty.
39. Revise Recall scoring to clearly state how many commands/signals are 
they allowed and
when.
40. Revise the wording about hands on the recall - not to be used as an 
aid.
41. State what exhibitors should do with the leash for the recall.
42. Run-Off Procedure – In case of a tie in the Beginner Novice class, 
the dog and handler will
perform the Heel on Leash the same as it is performed in the Beginner 
Novice Heel on Leash
exercise.
43. A dog without any AKC obedience title which was mistakenly entered 
in a Novice obedience
class may have the entry transferred to the Beginner Novice class 
provided the host club allows
transfers and the class and judge are available.
GRADUATE NOVICE
44. Add scoring section for each exercise (instead of referring them to 
other chapters).
Bd. Pg. 10 March 10-11, 2015
45. Add the dumbbell to the Recall over High Jump exercise. This 
exercise will be performed in
the same manner as the Dumbbell Recall except that the dog must clear 
the high jump.
46. Change the heeling exercise “Heel on Leash” to “Heel off Leash”
47. Group Stay – Sit or Down, Judge’s option, posted before starting the 
class, 3 minutes.
GRADUATE OPEN
48. Add scoring section for each exercise.
49. Signal Exercise – Revise to state minimum distance of 10’, which 
will allow handlers to go
further away from the dog.
50. Scent Discrimination – State the handler may choose which type of 
article is retrieved.
51. Go Out - State the handler must stand no closer than the center of 
the ring.
52. Change the order of the exercises to:
1. Signal Exercise
2. Scent Discrimination
3. Go Out
4. Directed Jumping
5. Moving Stand and Exam
6. Directed Retrieve
PRE-CLASSES
53. Change the name for all “Pre” classes to “Preferred” classes.
Pre-Novice  Preferred Novice
Pre-Open  Preferred Open
Pre-Utility  Preferred Utility
PREFERRED OPEN & PREFERRED UTILITY
54. Preferred Open - Add scoring section for each exercise.
55. Preferred Open - Clarify the Broad Jump is to be set to cover a 
distance to twice the height of
the Pre-Open High Jump.
56. A dog must have a PCD, CD title or higher title from the Regular 
classes to enter Preferred
Open and Preferred Utility.
57. Add a High in Trial (HIT) and High Combined (HC) award at the club’s 
option for the
Preferred title track.
58. Preferred Open – Use the same 6 orders of exercises that are used in 
the Regular Class
without a group exercise.
59. Preferred Utility – Use the same six orders of exercises that are 
used in the Regular Class.
60. Preferred Utility Signal Exercise – REMOVE exception that allows the 
handler to use a
verbal command during the signal portion.
61. Preferred Utility – Directed Retrieve. Post the Glove # 30-45 
minutes prior to the start of the
class.
62. Preferred Utility - Add scoring section for each exercise.
63. Preferred Utility - Scent Discrimination: Revise to 10 articles (not 
8).
64. Preferred Utility - Directed Retrieve: State it is the same exercise 
as in Utility.
65. Change the Preferred Open and Preferred Utility classes to include 
the same 6 mixed order of
exercises allowed in Regular Classes with the same exercises,
Bd. Pg. 11 March 10-11, 2015
except no group exercises; and jumps are set to ½ the height of the dog 
at the withers.
PREFERRED UTILITY: NEW PUDX TITLE
66. PUDX – PUDX scores will be recorded only for dogs that have earned 
the PUTD title. The
dog must receive qualifying scores in both Preferred Open and Preferred 
Utility at 10 separate
licensed or member obedience trials. The AKC will issue a Preferred 
Utility Dog Excellent
certificate and will permit the use of the letters PUDX following the 
name of each dog that meets
these requirements.
67. If the PUDX title is approved revise the Signal Exercise to all 
signals without the permitted
verbal command.
68. Previously earned scores and points for the PUDX and POC titles will 
be grandfathered to
07/01/13.
NEW PREFERRED OBEDIENCE CHAMPION (POC)
69. Non-competitive champion title; points earned based on scores of 190 
or better. To earn the
Preferred Obedience Champion title, dogs must earn qualifying scores in 
both Preferred Open
and Preferred Utility at 20 separate licensed or member obedience trials 
& 750 points (see Point
Schedule table below).
70. POC Point Schedule (see table)
Dog’s
Score
Points
Awarded
Dog’s
Score
Points
Awarded
190 6 195.5 12
190.5 6 196 12
191 6 196.5 12
191.5 6 197 15
192 9 197.5 15
192.5 9 198 15
193 9 198.5 15
193.5 9 199 15
194 9 199.5 15
194.5 9 200 15
195 12


----------



## Alaska7133

deleted ....


----------



## Megora

Maybe I'm wrong, but in essentials - Basically no real changes.... with the exception of keeping leashes on the dogs during novice stays. Which I guess is OK since there was some confusion about whether or not the judge would take points if dogs were released from stays prior to having the leashes back on.


----------



## AmberSunrise

The Scent Article changes are big - not the addition of wooden articles as an option but judging beginning when the judge says you can take an article. So if you choose to face the pile while the articles are being set out, it sounds like the turn away from the pile is now scorable - and a slow judge setting he article out can really extend the judging time..and you cannot give your dog a 'wait' or 'stay' cue while leaving to get your article without being scored?

I personally HATE the thought of leaving a leash dangling for the stays - knowing how attractive leashes can be to dogs including for my own dogs - yank & tug anyone?


----------



## Titan1

I am looking forward to the preferred classes for Titan.. that means he can go play and only jump at 1/2 his height.. that will be fun for him to do..He is not ready for retirement but I am not jumping him full height anymore.. we discussed it and he has agreed to live forever and to stay healthy and happy that long..lol


----------



## K9-Design

Sunrise said:


> The Scent Article changes are big - not the addition of wooden articles as an option but judging beginning when the judge says you can take an article. So if you choose to face the pile while the articles are being set out, it sounds like the turn away from the pile is now scorable - and a slow judge setting he article out can really extend the judging time..and you cannot give your dog a 'wait' or 'stay' cue while leaving to get your article without being scored?


Agree -- this is dumb. Wrought with problems. Not sure of the agenda to this rule change either.



> I personally HATE the thought of leaving a leash dangling for the stays - knowing how attractive leashes can be to dogs including for my own dogs - yank & tug anyone?


I don't mind that so much -- and really I think you could use this to your advantage!!!! I.e. train the dog to sit behind the leash in front of him. Why is this change not proposed for Open, too?


----------



## Megora

Sunrise said:


> The Scent Article changes are big - not the addition of wooden articles as an option but judging beginning when the judge says you can take an article. So if you choose to face the pile while the articles are being set out, it sounds like the turn away from the pile is now scorable - and a slow judge setting he article out can really extend the judging time..and you cannot give your dog a 'wait' or 'stay' cue while leaving to get your article without being scored?


Interesting.... I glazed over when reading that part (partly because I didn't know how different the changes were from what is already in place for judging, other than the wooden articles)... mainly focused on the novice and open portions because of all the prior discussed possible changes. Making sure they didn't do anything too crazy to us. 

I wonder how many people will opt to use wooden articles instead of metal - if that's an option.

@Michelle - I just hope more clubs start offering the preferred classes in earnest. And I do understand that they are limited as to how much stuff they offer at trials - considering ring space and time allowance (it's not like they can just cram another set of classes in without extra expense). I was looking at the next couple months of shows here in MI and while a couple clubs offer pre-open, they don't offer pre-novice.


----------



## Nairb

I'm seeing a lot of upcoming trials around here with pre-novice, pre-open and pre-utility on the schedule.


----------



## Lucky Penny

I like how classes starting in the afternoon have to say "afternoon" instead of "to follow"! I hate showing up in the morning and waiting hours.


----------

