# vitamins and supplements?



## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Extra vitamins and minerals aren't really recommended for puppies.

This might be helpful- http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...supplements-etc-arthritis-joint-problems.html


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## Wafer1141 (Mar 12, 2013)

MikaTallulah said:


> Extra vitamins and minerals aren't really recommended for puppies.
> 
> This might be helpful- http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...supplements-etc-arthritis-joint-problems.html


Thanks! I did read that thread, looking at it again it clears up my question about vit e. Im not interested in adding a bunch of vitamins and stuff to my puppy's diet. I will add fish oil around six months though. Through everything Ive read it wont really hurt.


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## stealle (Nov 12, 2012)

I don't have time to look it up right now, but basically when you consume fish oil it is beneficial to the body in many ways. However, it is quickly oxidized in the body and can be harmful in other ways. Vitamin E is an anti-oxidant and will protect the body from the oxidation from the fish oil. Vitamin E is often found in fish oils, but usually not in a significant amount the body needs. When Vitamin E is found in small amounts added to fish oil it is usually there as a preservative; to slow oxidation while in the bottle to keep it from going rancid quickly. For vitamin E, I give virgin red palm oil. Virgin red palm oil is similar to coconut oil, in that it is high in medium chain fatty acids, but it also contains tocotrienols. Tocotrienols are a form of Vitamin E that are much better than what is usually found in supplements containing Tocopherol form of Vitamin E. I mix 3 parts virgin cold pressed coconut oil and 1 part virgin red pal oil together in a crock pot (just warm enough to melt them). I feed my dogs about 2 tablespoons of this per day. 

As for what kind of fish oil, many people warn dog owners "do not give cod liver oil because it contains too much fat soluble vitamin A and will be toxic to your dog" This is simply poor advise. Dogs can benefit from Vitamin A in cod liver oil. You would have to be feeding ridiculous amounts of cod liver oil (like over cup a day for 2 months) to cause Vitamin A toxicity. Source: http://k9joy.com/dogarticles/vitaminA.pdf

I have recently been reading lots of information on the Weston A. Price Foundation website. I am learning that the fat soluble vitamins are probably much more important than we ever realize. I started giving my dog cod liver oil and I am now taking it myself.


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## stealle (Nov 12, 2012)

If you feed your puppy whole foods that naturally contain these vitamins and minerals, it is perfectly safe. Your puppies body will use what it needs and eliminate the rest. The problems occur when megadoses of supplements especially large dose of synthetic vitamins are given. Small, reasonable amounts of coconut oil, red palm oil, fish oil, kelp, spirulina, chlorella, natural vitamin C (from sources such as raspberry or cranberry powder) are not going to harm your puppy. 

When I run out of regular fish oil, I will most likely go to about 1/2 teaspoon of cod liver oil per day and a can of sardines packed in water 3 days per week.


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## Wafer1141 (Mar 12, 2013)

stealle said:


> Small, reasonable amounts of coconut oil, red palm oil, fish oil, kelp, spirulina, chlorella, natural vitamin C (from sources such as raspberry or cranberry powder) are not going to harm your puppy.
> 
> When I run out of regular fish oil, I will most likely go to about 1/2 teaspoon of cod liver oil per day and a can of sardines packed in water 3 days per week.


 So why are you giving those? What is each for?


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## stealle (Nov 12, 2012)

Basically, overall health and nutrition. I just consider them whole foods; not so much "supplements." 

There is always a debate among dog owners about dogs being carnivores vs omnivores. I'll try to avoid that debate in this thread, but I do believe that our dogs closest ancestors in the wild are wolves. Wolves _prefer_ a carnivorous diet however, they do at times eat various greens and some berries. It is a fact that dogs do not need carbohydrates in the diet. With all that in mind, I would prefer to feed my dogs a diet that is ~98-99% raw and a small amount of greens and berries. The greens contain enzymes, antioxidants, and phytonutrients that can help the immune system, digestion, and anticancer. The berries also provide phytonutrients and boost the immune system. The vitamin c that is provided _might_ (according to a few studies and some experiences breeders) help prevent joint diseases and hip dysplasia. I do not believe megodoses of vitamin c are more helpful than smaller amounts of highly bio-available doses of vitamin c naturally found in whole foods. 

Coconut oil has numerous benefits. It is anti-viral, anti-microbial, anti-bacterial for gram negative acteria (the bad stuff). It can improved HDL and LDL levels. It help reduce the risk of atherosclerosis. It is good for the skin. There is a ton of info on the internet about coconut oil. Here is a start: The Truth About Saturated Fats and The Coconut Oil Benefits

I feed virgin red palm oil for some of the same reasons I feed coconut oil. However, coconut oil lacks the cartenoids and Vitamin E tocotrienols found in palm oil. Again, I want to provide my dogs with some extra vitamin E and I have found this to be the best natural whole food source of tocotrienols.

I will be the first to admit that some of these foods I feed my dogs might not be necessary for every dog. But, since I have been feeding my dogs these whole foods I have without question seen a huge improvement. My 9 month old puppy has never had any problems, but he's very young so that's not much of a testimonial. However my 11 year old, Sadie, has had terrible skin issues all of her life. She has been on medications (anti-fungals, antibiotics, steroids, immunosuppressants) off and on all of her life. She would get a horrible rash on her belly with sores that would weep. She would lick her paws and belly until they were raw. She had no hair on her belly. It was almost either red and raw or black/hyperpigmented. She also had multiple ear infections. Her problems would be temporarily "cured" with medications for yeast/fungal and/or bacterial infections. She was on these medications several times a year. She took antihistamines year around. We are talking almost 10 years of this! I could never pinpoint food allergies. It seemed she did best when we avoided chicken and grains. But despite trying several different formulas from IAMS, Eukanuba, Innova, Science Diet, Canidea, and Wellness (and I'm sure a few others) nothing seemed to help. I settled on Wellness Core fish based formula for the last 6 years or so before switching to Orijen. When I was about to get our new golden puppy I decided to research the canine diet further. I wanted to avoid all the problems I've had with Sadie. Of course, I also wanted to avoid a puppy that might be genetically predisposed to skin problems. So that was an important criteria when seeking out a new puppy. Anyway, I decided to make nutrition a top priority with my dogs. 

I feed my dogs Orijen during the week. Mostly out of convenience. I do believe Orijen is one of the best dry kibbles available. However, I think the prey model raw diet is much better. My dogs are fed raw on the weekends (sometimes that's a 2 or 3 day weekend). I always feed the whole foods I mention above with the meals. My pup is growing up into quite a handsome boy. My 11 year old has not had any medication in about 8 months. It might be too early to tell, but this is the longest she has been off medication since she was about 1 year old. She has beautiful pale pink skin on her belly and its covered in hair that I have to keep trimmed up now! No licking or itching. No ear infections. I'm thrilled that she is going to live her final years in comfort. 

I have observed the most obvious health benefits of this diet in my old dog Sadie, but I'm also glad to be feeding my pup a diet that will give him a great start in his, hopefully, long life.


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