# Grindol's Goldens



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

The eye cert shown on OFA for Rayne is out of date, they are supposed to be done yearly. You might want to ask about that, it just may not have been sent in yet.

If I were spending this much on a puppy, I would want to know what the breeder is doing with her dogs to determine that they are breeding quality and worthy of producing the next generation of goldens. Is she showing them in confirmation, obedience, hunt tests, etc? Competing with her dogs in these venues proves structural correctness, trainability and temperament qualities. Do any of her dogs have a CCA (certificate from the Golden Retriever Club of America showing the dog meets the breed standard.)? I would also ask why she chose this breeding? How does the sire improve Rayne's weaknesses etc.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

They are not the best and they are not the worst. You could definitely do better. The price of these puppies seems high based on their parents accomplishments. Texas is filled with great breeders. I would suggest contacting the local Golden Retriever clubs Dallas-Ft. Worth Metro Golden Retriever Club or Austin Golden Retriever Club

Things I do like:
The clearances for the parents are mostly in order for the Rayne litter. As noble fan mentioned you need to ask about the dad's eyes.

Things I don't like and would ask questions about:
It seems like making puppies is the "hobby" and that does not make you a hobby breeder. The hobby is a discipline in the sport of dogs, like showing in conformation, obiedence, tracking, hunting, etc. The breeding comes later as a way to continue in your chosen sport. They do not talk any where on their site about being active with their dogs other that mentioning the CGC. I my opinion every golden should be able to earn a CGC, so to me that single accomplishment is not a reason to breed a dog.

Rayne's mother was bred despite having a heart murmur. So, the puppy you purchase will have a grand parent with a heart issue. I know she says her vet gave her the ok, but the GRCA COE did not.

Rayne was kept because she was the only girl. That statement just kind of worries me. It seem the only reason she was kept was her ability to make puppies. Sure, she could be the nicest puppy ever, but with out competing with her in some venue, no one knows. They then bred back the same mom and dad to keep a full sister. Why? Very rarely would a breeder want to keep two full sisters to continue a program with. The goal should be to improve each generation. Breeding back and keeping another of the same line is not what I would consider an attempt to move forward in a program.

By several statements, her selection seems based on color. This is the last consideration I would have when keeping a puppy. Yes, we all have preferences, but she is stating color as a reason she is selecting her dogs and not much else. If I have a choice between a dark puppy and a light puppy, I would choose the one that was the most structurally correct. This might be the case, but it is not what she is putting out their publicly.

Haylee's puppies being priced higher. Though no reason is stated for the difference, my guess would be the number of champions behind Haylee. Since there is no evidence that Haylee or Sandler are titled or competing anywhere, this make no since to me. Champions behind a dog mean very little if the parents themselves do not prove themselves as well. This seems like she is cashing in on the work of others. 

These would be my talking points with her. She might have great reasons for doing what she is doing with her breeding program. So, I would have a conversation with her. For the price though, I do think you might be able to do better.

Good luck with your search. And of course we will all want to see pictures when you get your new puppy!


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## edwinng1110 (Nov 14, 2012)

Thank you very much, I am still new at this and still trying to get better at selecting a great Golden. I will still to be looking around for other Golden Breeders in Texas and I will research even more on the pedigrees of each goldens and learn from my mistakes. I am thankful for each and everyone of you all on my quest in searching for a golden that is perfect for me! =)


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## edwinng1110 (Nov 14, 2012)

I was just wondering where did it say that Rayne's mother had a Heart Murmur. I could not find the information of the K9 data


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Sure, it was right on the grindol's website. On the page originally posted. Each dog has a details section under Rayne it lists her parents names (Grindol's got the joy of grace) and when you scroll down you see "Joy" has her own section where the murmur is listed.


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## edwinng1110 (Nov 14, 2012)

OOhhh I see it! Thank you very much


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## edwinng1110 (Nov 14, 2012)

So do you believe I could do better than this? Because I have received an e-mail saying I am able to put down a deposit for the dogs already. Though after hearing what LJack and Nolefan had to say, I am having doubts about this. It says that the heart murmur for Rayne's mother will not affect Rayne's litter and the way LJack pointed out that how this breeder states why she kept Rayne because she was the only girl makes me second guess myself as I can see where LJack is coming from. Rayne was kept because she was this specific color and the only girl. 

Should I go for this dog or should I go for one of "Yellow rose Golden Retriever" Yellow Rose Golden Retrievers Austin TX 

Do you think that there will be any trouble with the grindol's golden in the future. Do you believe I should just go for the yellow rose Goldens?

Thank you for your time.


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

edwinng1110 said:


> So do you believe I could do better than this? Because I have received an e-mail saying I am able to put down a deposit for the dogs already. Though after hearing what LJack and Nolefan had to say, I am having doubts about this. It says that the heart murmur for Rayne's mother will not affect Rayne's litter and the way LJack pointed out that how this breeder states why she kept Rayne because she was the only girl makes me second guess myself as I can see where LJack is coming from. Rayne was kept because she was this specific color and the only girl.
> 
> Should I go for this dog or should I go for one of "Yellow rose Golden Retriever" Yellow Rose Golden Retrievers Austin TX
> 
> ...


I believe the advice of previous posters is there are some red flags with Gindols goldens, and either do your reseach very thoroughly or walk away. I would walk away. Looking at Yellow Rose, they have done all 4 clearances on the parents of the each of the 3 upcoming litters, except Chelsea does not have her CERF (eye) listed, most likely done just not submitted. If you chose a puppy from that litter you should ask the breeder to see a current CERF exam. My only concerns would be it does not appear she actively shows her dogs, and 3 litters in a short period of time. My concern about the 3 litters is: does she have time to properly care and socialize 3 litters at the same time.

I would not think there would be any repercussions from Grindol's if you purchased a puppy from somewhere else. You have the right to chose where you get your puppy.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

I don't know that anyone can truthfully say a heart murmur will not affect the puppy. Sub-aortic Stenosis is a real threat to the heart health of our breed. It has a complex an not completely understood inheritance in our breed. We know it is inherited and we know there can be silent/carriers of the condition. There is no genetic test to identify these dogs. So, there is a chance that Rayne could be a carrier if she inherited copies of the affected gene(s). So much of breeding is uncontrollable, genes combine so randomly. I would really carefully weigh this in your decision. If you have not read about Sub-aortic Stenosis (SAS), I suggest you should before you make up your mind.


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## edwinng1110 (Nov 14, 2012)

Thank you Millie and LJack I shall research more and more about the dog's conditions. I shall read on the SAS and I shall use that to weigh in my decision for picking out a Golden


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I think she is overcharging, I wouldn't expect to pay over $1000 for what she is offering. There is a lot she is doing right, but there are other areas that could be improved upon.


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## JMBrackin (Feb 11, 2014)

I have a 3 year old female from Grindol's Goldens. She is exceptional, very smart, friendly and the picture of health. She was offspring of Joy and Deuce. Joy and Deuce both have all clearances required and both have excellent hip ratings through OFA. Joy was found to have a murmur through auscultation, but was cleared of any valvular or heart malformations through an echo. I have copies of the paperwork verifying this. I have had Memory's hips and elbows cleared through OFA, and just yesterday had her heart clear for SAS. I would recommend this breeder to anyone. No, she hasn't showed her dogs in the past, but raises sound healthy pets for families that want to own a well bred golden.


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## Dancer (Apr 5, 2010)

JMBrackin said:


> I have a 3 year old female from Grindol's Goldens. She is exceptional, very smart, friendly and the picture of health. She was offspring of Joy and Deuce. Joy and Deuce both have all clearances required and both have excellent hip ratings through OFA. Joy was found to have a murmur through auscultation, but was cleared of any valvular or heart malformations through an echo. I have copies of the paperwork verifying this. I have had Memory's hips and elbows cleared through OFA, and just yesterday had her heart clear for SAS. I would recommend this breeder to anyone. No, she hasn't showed her dogs in the past, but raises sound healthy pets for families that want to own a well bred golden.



JMBrackin; All well and good- BUT there are a LOT of dogs in the world. A LOT. So many that they out number the available homes, meaning the surplus dogs just do not get homes. I support purebred dogs, I love my breed, and I support getting a puppy from a reputable breeder. However, in light of the extreme overpopulation problem we are experiencing with domestic dogs, a breeder better be darn certain that there is a reason to breed their dogs and unfortunately health clearances aren't enough. They're AWESOME, and I'm pleased that this breeder (and/or yourself, JMBrackin) is by all accounts doing these clearances, but it's only a STEP in the right direction. You want to breed your dog? Prove him/her in competition with others of your breed. 

In my field (environmental science) we can do all the research and experimentation and draw all the conclusions that we want but guess what? It's all totally useless unless our results stand up to review by our peers. Dog breeding is similar, peer review is essential to proving your breeding program. 

There are so many nice looking dogs out there who can pass their clearances. This just isn't a good enough reason to breed them. After all, my boys are gorgeous, smart, and awesome pets who could likely pass their clearances- would you call that a good enough reason for them to be stud dogs??? Would you pay the same price for a pup by my boy 'Steve' as a pup by the top ranked golden retriever in America? If so, there's a bridge in Brooklyn I'd love to sell you- and I'll give you a great deal on it!


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## 1stGold13 (Dec 1, 2013)

JMBrackin said:


> I have a 3 year old female from Grindol's Goldens. She is exceptional, very smart, friendly and the picture of health. She was offspring of Joy and Deuce. Joy and Deuce both have all clearances required and both have excellent hip ratings through OFA. Joy was found to have a murmur through auscultation, but was cleared of any valvular or heart malformations through an echo. I have copies of the paperwork verifying this. I have had Memory's hips and elbows cleared through OFA, and just yesterday had her heart clear for SAS. I would recommend this breeder to anyone. No, she hasn't showed her dogs in the past, but raises sound healthy pets for families that want to own a well bred golden.


First post, welcome :doh: mouth-shut.


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

Grandmother with a heart murmur? That would be the end of my consideration of the breeder.

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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Problem is, this is probably the best you're going to find in Louisiana. So then you have to convince the average pet owner that they need to travel out of state to get a puppy. Which seems perfectly acceptable to most of us, but a lot of the general public is going to think that's crazy.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

JMBrackin said:


> …. I would recommend this breeder to anyone. No, she hasn't showed her dogs in the past, but raises sound healthy pets for families that want to own a well bred golden.


Ok, this breeder does not do yearly eye clearances for her dogs, the sire of your dog does not have a heart clearance listed on OFA, none of the dogs she's breeding appear to have been shown in any venue, going back in the pedigrees her breeding dogs do not have health clearances listed so I'm trying to figure out how you base a recommendation of the breeder for someone wanting a 'well bred golden.' This does not fit the bill for a well bred Golden Retriever.

I noticed on the website the breeder states the following:

"Now that we've learned the hard way & have started getting Goldens from health clearanced bloodlines, we have rarely had problems. 

So, please, if you're looking for a Golden Retriever, please get one whose parents are both OFA certified." http://grindolsgoldens.homestead.com/ofapage.html

It appears she knows what she should be doing, but is continuing to breed dogs herself who don't have those clearances in their pedigrees. I tried to find a few of the dogs on OFA and I either can't find the dog at all or the clearances are incomplete. This may not be the worst place to buy a puppy, but it certainly isn't the best.


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## Dancer (Apr 5, 2010)

Loisiana said:


> Problem is, this is probably the best you're going to find in Louisiana. So then you have to convince the average pet owner that they need to travel out of state to get a puppy. Which seems perfectly acceptable to most of us, but a lot of the general public is going to think that's crazy.



You have a point. I've definitely seen worse here as well. At least (if the pics can be believed) the place looks clean and the dogs look loved. IF all the clearances are in place, than there are definitely worse options out there. But I certainly wouldn't call Goldens from a breeder who doesn't compete and prove their dogs 'well bred'. To me, the title of 'well bred' comes from a combination of generations of solid clearances (with proof), and excelling in competition against other Goldens. 


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## Dancer (Apr 5, 2010)

1stGold13 said:


> First post, welcome :doh: mouth-shut.



I was totally thinking that as well


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## 1stGold13 (Dec 1, 2013)

Lol, if you can't say something nice... Hopefully prospective buyers will read carefully


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

People you sometimes have to get a grip on the reality of life in the real world. 
If only champions were bred, you would create such an imbalance in supply/demand that the price of a golden retriever would far exceed the financial means of nearly everybody who reads this board. 

For some prospective owners, champion parents are a necessity, for others it is not. 
Most pet owners are looking for a golden that in their opinion, is healthy, looks like a golden and acts like a golden. For those of us interested in various venues of competition, our standards are more stringent.

Grindol isn't striving to produce the best dogs in the country, but they aren't producing the worst either. There are lots of breeders to choose from, although not one of them will be all things to everybody who is looking for a pup. 

Freedom to choose what you want in a dog is a good thing.


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## Dancer (Apr 5, 2010)

Swampcollie said:


> People you sometimes have to get a grip on the reality of life in the real world.
> If only champions were bred, you would create such an imbalance in supply/demand that the price of a golden retriever would far exceed the financial means of nearly everybody who reads this board.
> 
> For some prospective owners, champion parents are a necessity, for others it is not.
> ...


I disagree. I do have a surprisingly 'good grip on the reality of life in the real world', thank you very much. The real world is already filled with dogs who don't have homes. Competition is essential for a breeder to prove their breeding stock and breeding program are striving to embody the breed standard for a golden retriever. The breed standard us what keeps a golden retriever a true 'golden retriever'. If it isn't important to a puppy buyer to purchase a puppy that embodies the qualities of a 'golden retriever' just because they 'only want a pet', or whatever, than they should look at a rescued mixed breed fog from their local shelter. If a person is going out looking for a golden, one can assume its because of the qualities listed in the breed standard for a golden. Respect that. Buy from someone who is striving to keep their dog to that standard- by proving it in competition. Otherwise, help some poor dog out of a bad situation at the local pound. 

If only titled dogs were bred, it would not create a market imbalance and demand would stay exactly the same. What would actually happen is most all of the golden you see walking down the street would resemble the breed standard in structure and temperament. As a breed enthusiast, I would love that. As for the price if a puppy, its worth saving up to get the right pup. 

The 'grip' I have on 'the reality of life in the real world' is this: dogs are euthanized do to overpopulation every day. If a person is knowingly creating more puppies in this scenario, their breeding stock needs to 'earn' the right to be bred- and the breeder needs to prove their knowledge, commitment to continuing to accumulate that knowledge, and their dedication to the breed by competing with and against their peers. Additionally, no one has the 'right' to get a dog of a specific breed just because they want it. There are a lot of things I want in life that I can't afford. If they're really that important to me, I'll save up for them. I can also honestly say that our Fuzzy who is one year old has cost us more in emergency vet bills than his original purchase price only a year ago. If the purchase price of a puppy is such a sticking point, reconsider getting a dog at all as the purchase price is just the beginning. 


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Swampy - I would agree only if the breeder is following through on clearances and is aware of the health problems within the breed and is actively trying to breed healthy dogs (as opposed to those that "look" healthy). 

There's definitely a lot of emotions and politics involved when it comes to defining what "looks" like a golden retriever or what is "good enough" for a price, but verified health (clearances) must always be pushed and preached. For the good of the breed. 

^ This is probably preaching to the choir, but I just feel very strongly on this point. I don't want people going through what we did with our first golden.


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

1stGold13 said:


> Lol, if you can't say something nice... Hopefully prospective buyers will read carefully


I think this is appropriate in the context.of individuals or personal comments. Once you begin selling something you are fair game for critique and public comment.

There are a LOT of titles to choose from to "prove" your dog, not just champion in conformation. If they can't even bother to get a rudimentary CGC on a dog, they/it shouldn't be breeding.

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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

FYI, a dog can have a physiologic heart murmur that is diagnosed with an echo. That is not the same kind of murmur that is caused by SAS. A physiologic heart murmur is not pathologic. My husband has a heart murmur that is physiologic. You can hear it when he lays down or after exercise...


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## 1stGold13 (Dec 1, 2013)

Dancer said:


> I disagree. I do have a surprisingly 'good grip on the reality of life in the real world', thank you very much. The real world is already filled with dogs who don't have homes. Competition is essential for a breeder to prove their breeding stock and breeding program are striving to embody the breed standard for a golden retriever. The breed standard us what keeps a golden retriever a true 'golden retriever'. If it isn't important to a puppy buyer to purchase a puppy that embodies the qualities of a 'golden retriever' just because they 'only want a pet', or whatever, than they should look at a rescued mixed breed fog from their local shelter. If a person is going out looking for a golden, one can assume its because of the qualities listed in the breed standard for a golden. Respect that. Buy from someone who is striving to keep their dog to that standard- by proving it in competition. Otherwise, help some poor dog out of a bad situation at the local pound.
> 
> If only titled dogs were bred, it would not create a market imbalance and demand would stay exactly the same. What would actually happen is most all of the golden you see walking down the street would resemble the breed standard in structure and temperament. As a breed enthusiast, I would love that. As for the price if a puppy, its worth saving up to get the right pup.
> 
> ...


Repeating for emphasis , well said.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

lhowemt said:


> There are a LOT of titles to choose from to "prove" your dog, not just champion in conformation. If they can't even bother to get a rudimentary CGC on a dog, they/it shouldn't be breeding.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


FWIW, I have no idea if they still do, but I know they used to get CGC's on their dogs.


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## JMBrackin (Feb 11, 2014)

For all of you saying get a dog from someone who is active in showing and whose dogs are proven in the conformation ring, I went that route with my first golden. I picked a breeder who had champions throughout her bloodline not only in the US but also in Canada. She was actively showing, a brother and littermate to my girl was kept for the showring. Originally my girl was going to be kept but she decided to go with the male because this female had a bit of a stubborn side. I did drive out of state to get her because I wanted a healthy sound dog. Upon arrival, I realized that her valued show dogs lived in kennels, not with the family, and honestly weren't very well behaved. They were, however, gorgeous dogs. I brought my girl home and she became my 15 month old daughter's instant sidekick and first sibling. We had her for only 8 short years but long enough for 3 other children to be born who had bonded with her. I had her hips cleared by OFA just because the breeder wanted the records (she was sold to me on limited registration). She was the picture of health with no vet visits other than regular checkups and her spay procedure. One evening in March 2008 just after she turned 8 years old, we had enjoyed a beautiful spring day outdoors, biking, playing fetch,etc. She was fine, playful, active, no sign that anything was wrong. The next morning we woke up with plans to go on a nature hike with the kids and her, we found her lethargic, pale gums and labored breathing. Less than 4 hours later, she had passed. DX: hemangiosarcoma Later, after doing research, I found this breeder had that in her bloodlines. Her male ( the littermate that she kept ) had died at the age of 6 of this cancer. He was a champion in the conformation ring. What did champion bloodlines get me... heartache well before it was due. When we were ready for our next golden, I researched even more so than with my first. I chose Grindol's because of her openess with me. Her dogs do have their health certs, only Joy had the murmur which was cleared through Echo. When I arrived to pick up my puppy, her dogs were with the family. They are loved, housebroken, tended to and not put up in kennels away from people. She begins socializing them at birth and her young children take a part in the upbringing. For those of you, who complain she isn't active with her dogs... she has a 1 y/o male that she is hopeful to use as a sire IF clearances all pass that she just showed in the conformation ring. He received Best in Breed, 1st in the Sporting group and Reserve Best in Show! When I first brought my Grindol girl home and took her to the vet for first checkup a couple days later, my vets response was " This is a great puppy! Where did she come from?" He continues to be impressed with her health and confirmation, has suggested showing her, but I don't have time. I'm a full time labor nurse, mother to 4 children, 3 dogs and 2 cats, wife to business owner, active March of Dimes supporter. Just because she isn't in the conformation ring, field trials or other competition does not mean she couldn't be. For those saying, if you just want a pet, go to the shelter... you never know what you are getting at the shelter. I grew up with mostly shelter dogs, some were great, some became aggressive. I can't take that chance with my children. One of my dogs is a rescue, half golden half lab, acts more like a lab and both our cats are rescues. I do my part when I can!


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## JMBrackin (Feb 11, 2014)

LJack said:


> I don't know that anyone can truthfully say a heart murmur will not affect the puppy. Sub-aortic Stenosis is a real threat to the heart health of our breed. It has a complex an not completely understood inheritance in our breed. We know it is inherited and we know there can be silent/carriers of the condition. There is no genetic test to identify these dogs. So, there is a chance that Rayne could be a carrier if she inherited copies of the affected gene(s). So much of breeding is uncontrollable, genes combine so randomly. I would really carefully weigh this in your decision. If you have not read about Sub-aortic Stenosis (SAS), I suggest you should before you make up your mind.


 

Joy was cleared of SAS with a follow-up echo. "sub aortic region and valve appears normal. No structural aortic disease visualized"


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> For those of you, who complain she isn't active with her dogs... she has a 1 y/o male that she is hopeful to use as a sire IF clearances all pass that she just showed in the conformation ring. He received Best in Breed, 1st in the Sporting group and Reserve Best in Show!


 Was this an AKC show? Which dog was this? 

Very sorry for your loss. I think my only concern about buying a puppy from somebody who has all clearances, but breeds from pedigrees like those I saw on the website (you had some 4 years old and 6 years old passing away behind one of the breeding dogs) - I would not pay $1500 for a puppy from this person. Especially in your state, where I (probably naively) imagine that cost of living is lower. 

I purchased a puppy from a breeder where both parents were champions and loaded pedigree with dogs who lived into their teens in addition to being champions.... and I paid well less than $1500. 

This is what people were talking about as far as overcharging for what she is offering. I didn't go all over searching for ofa clearances on her dogs, that is up to prospective puppy buyers to go on offa.org and view if those 4 clearances have been done.


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## JMBrackin (Feb 11, 2014)

ukc/akc show.. the dog was Goldrush You Make Me Happy; call name Happy. It was in Shreveport, LA. He also placed as a puppy earlier in the year but not sure where that competition was.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

JMBrackin said:


> ukc/akc show.. the dog was Goldrush You Make Me Happy; call name Happy. It was in Shreveport, LA. He also placed as a puppy earlier in the year but not sure where that competition was.


Suspect he was shown in UKC then. LOL. Normally very green owner handlers do not have that big a first time out in the AKC. Even really experienced pro handlers don't. That's why I asked. 

If you are thinking about showing your puppy - I've heard that the UKC shows may be better just starting out and getting your feet wet.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

JMBrackin said:


> Joy was cleared of SAS with a follow-up echo. "sub aortic region and valve appears normal. No structural aortic disease visualized"


Glad to hear it. I was responding to information directly from their site which is no longer displayed. When checked on OFA there was no heart info. It would be nice if they submitted the clearance to the OFA so it could be recorded for future generations.

I too am sorry for your loss. Cancer is devastating and unfortunately more common in our breed than we would like. Every single "line" of Goldens are at risk, there are no one can honestly say their lines are "cancer free". If you would like to help the work on cancer in Goldens and your dog is young enough, you can enroll in the Morris Golden Retriever Lifetime Study. Here is the site so you can look at this Golden Retriever Lifetime Study


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## Armand Breard (9 mo ago)

edwinng1110 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I was just wondering if anyone has heard of this particular breeder. I maybe getting my first golden puppy from her. I believe I could be getting a pup from the Rayne litter. I have looked at her hip, eye, heart and elbow clearances and they look good. Could anyone double check for me just in case I am mistaken. Thank you very much!!
> 
> Golden Retriever breeder


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## Armand Breard (9 mo ago)

We got our Golden, Chief, from Grindols almost 14 years ago. He was our 2nd Golden, and by far the smartest, friendliest and most loving pet we ever had.He had a blood test at Christmas; all good; but he contracted an aggressive Melanoma in his throat and had to be put down on Jan. 12th. We are now searching for another Golden & have two 9 year old litter mates half Golden & half Chou. But, we don't think any could replace Chief.

Armand Breard


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