# First Dog Show (as a spectator)



## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

I'm going to my first dog show next week. And I'm so confused. 

I've got the premium list but idk how many dogs to expect to see or how the rings will be set up (is it one ring for a specialty?). What the expectations are/should be. What will be expected of me? I want to watch the different classes but I don't want to be in the way. We're planning on bringing our own chairs to sit ringside. 

Can anyone help me? Here's a link to the show from Infodog.... InfoDog - The Dog Fancier's Complete Resource for information about AKC Dog Show Events, and Dog Products and Services 

I'm also confused on the entry fees. And how the classes work. I know that there is a 1st entry fee then a lesser price for subsequent entries. Is that for like entering in both conformation AND a performance venue? Do you enter dogs into conformation twice? I was reading you enter the dog in the conformation class you think they can win. But with specialties, at least this one, there is a sweepstakes (which I don't get) which looks like it repeats the puppies and the older dogs. Are the sweepstakes like a bonus entry?


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

The AKC gives a discount for "all american" breeds entered in events like obedience, agility or rally so you can see two different entry fees listed when you sign up. Not sure about anything else.
The premium will tell you how many of which breeds are entered, then breaks it down to how many in each division, such as puppy (per age group)... dogs or bitches.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Appears to be only conformation so just one ring and it will go all day long. When you arrive you should be able to get a printed catalog that will show you the entries and it will have each dog's registered name, sire and dam, breeder, owner, handler, etc. You definitely want this because it shows you the order of the classes and an idea of which dogs, how many are entered in each one. Bring a pen so you can make notes about which dogs you like etc. The classes go in order so the judges will have a lunch break but otherwise it just sort of starts at the set time and then go one after the other with no set start time per class, you have to pay attention.

There will be puppy sweepstakes for puppies 6-18 months of age, broken into different age groups. There will be regular and non regular classes. If you print up the 'Premium' it will break down all the information for you. The classes just go one after the other.

It's a "cluster" of shows, meaning other clubs are going to be at the same location with shows Friday - Monday and the Golden club is "supporting" them, meaning they are going to ask members to stick around and enter their Goldens in the kennel club all breed shows. So you can go all weekend and see tons of other breeds and there will also be Goldens. THat one will have multiple rings going on but Goldens will only be in one ring. There will also be obedience and rally on the weekend.

Bring your chairs and I would bring a cooler. (food is available for sale usually but quality can be risky  ) You can bring a little wagon if you have a ton of stuff to carry since you may have to walk a fair distance from parking to the actual ringside area. It will be pretty obvious where people are working and grooming dogs so easy for you to stand off to the side and watch without getting in the way. Same thing with ring side seating, just set up and if you watch, you can figure out who seems to know what's going on and you can quietly ask questions if you're and outgoing person  People love to teach others who admit they want to learn, you'll be surprised if you ask how nice some people will be as long as they're not about to go into the ring.

There may be some vendors on Thursday with great stuff for sale, but it may not be till the weekend shows that all of them are set up and selling. It's a great shopping opportunity when there are big shows with multiple clubs like this one. YOu're going to have so much fun


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

If you wait for the Judging Schedule to come out (it should be online at least a few days before the show), it will tell you how many dogs are entered. The numbers next to each breed indicate the number of "class" dogs, bitches, and the number of titled champion dogs and bitches.

For Example: 
Retrievers (Golden): 5, 8,- 2, 4 means 5 class dogs, 8 class bitches, 2 CH dogs, and 4 CH bitches (thanks @Prism Goldens, I totally stole that from one of your earlier posts) 

Each breed goes in one ring, although I think Sweeps classes can be in a different one (not entirely sure about that). I don't know exactly how the Sweepstakes classes work, just that it's usually only for owner-handled puppies and veterans (although handlers are sometimes allowed). The Judging Schedule will show which judges and breeds are in which ring and the approximate times. It won't tell you a specific time for each breed, but it will show a few times. Some breeds (like Goldens) can take HOURS to judge from beginning to end if there is a large entry. 

The classes for untitled dogs are as follows (not necessarily in order of how they are judged): 

6-9 months dogs
9-12 months dogs
12-18 months dogs
Open dogs
Bred-by-Exhibitor dogs
American Bred dogs

6-9 months bitches
9-12 months bitches
12-18 months bitches
Open bitches
Bred-by-Exhibitor bitches
American Bred bitches 

A "Winners Dog" (WD) is picked from the winners of all of the dog classes, and a "Winners Bitch" (WB) is picked from all of the winners of the bitch classes. These two both get points toward their championship. After Winners Dog and Bitch, you go to the Best of Breed competition which has all of the finished Champions and Grand Champions. The WD and WB compete against the finished CHs and GCHs. The awards at that point can be: Best of Breed (goes on to group), Best of Opposite Sex (to the Best of Breed), Best of Winners (winner between WD and WB), Select Dog, and Select Bitch. The WD or WB can also win BOB or BOS if they are really good. The Selects are for points toward the Grand Championship and can only be given to finished Champions. Hopefully someone else with more show experience can expand on this. 

If there is Obedience going on too, it will also be in the judging program with a few times for different classes and the ring number too. For Obedience and Rally, many of the upper level competitors have to enter multiple classes to go after upper level titles. Example: An Obedience person going for a UDX title has to enter both the Open B and Utility B classes, so clubs offer a discount on the second entry to the same trial. Rally is the same way. Often Obedience and Conformation can have the same event number with AKC, which is where the discounted second entry comes from. Rally usually has a different event number and therefore can have different entry fees in the premium list. Anyone going for the RACH title has to enter three classes in the same day (Master, Excellent, and Advanced). I'm not entirely sure if there's a discount on the second entry if you enter conformation and obedience at the same time under the same event number. I want to think that it only applies to entering multiple obedience classes. 

If you want to watch up close, don't bring your dog with you (dogs not in any competition at all are not usually allowed anyway). Big shows will have chairs out, but it is definitely ok to bring your own. Set it up next to other chairs outside of the ring and you will be fine. Don't be scared to talk to people. You will be able to tell which spectators have a dog in the ring during any given class. As long as their dog is not trotting around, they usually don't mind talking to people. I have personally met several breeders just by sitting ringside and plucking up the courage to talk to people.  One breeder I met started a chain of meeting people that led me to find my Rally trainers! Good luck and have fun!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I'd send an email out to the super sometime next week to see if she can send you a judging program. If it's not posted on infodog or the club website by then. 

Usually judging programs are posted by the weekend before the show weekend. 

Because the superintendent is an individual, it might not get posted online. 

It stinks too because you probably will have to purchase a catalog if you want to know "who is who" in the ring. 

Infodog is probably one of the very few superintendents that posts catalogs online day of show. Means you don't have to buy a catalog. A lot of us will pull the cell phones out and look dogs up or just keep tabs on what is going on into the ring. 

@seating - set your chairs up ringside. Rule of thumb is don't set up near the ring gate opening(s) where people are going in and out of the ring. But setting up nearby within reason means you can hear the steward call out the class names and you can follow what's going on in the ring better without a catalog.

In general - dogs show first, puppies through Open. And then the dogs go back in for the Winners competition. What this means is the open winner goes set up first, followed by each of the preceding class winners. And the judge picks Winners Dog and Reserve.

This is repeated with bitches. 

Best of Breed - all the specials go in first, followed by the winners dog and winners bitch. Then the judge picks the best of breed, best of opposite, best of winners, etc...

Sometimes this takes 1-2 hours. Sometimes it's all done in about 45 minutes. Depends on the judge and entry...


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Thank you everyone! Are there etiquette faux pas I need to be aware of? Does it matter that I already have the breeder for my next pup picked and the puppy is on the ground? I'm going mostly to see if it's something I'll be interested in, since we're hoping to show the next puppy (plus performance stuff plus if I can some field stuff.... it's my goal to title the dog in a well rounded manner). I don't want to make a mistake or anything that would reflect badly on me or on my dog or on my breeder.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

It doesn't matter in the least that you already have a breeder chosen... if you're interested in performance too, then watch that as well. You'll find the obedience classes usually across the building from conformation. Faux pas- don't say anything negative about any of the dogs in the ring, don't talk too loudly at all about anything actually... if you're sitting next to someone who seems willing to tell you what class is in, that's great, but if they have a dog in the ring don't interrupt their watching. Be sure to congratulate if they have a dog who wins it's class. Most people ringside will know the other people ringside- they can point folks out to you if you have a catalog and notice you really like a particular breeder's dogs... you'll have a great time I am sure. Kudos to you that you want to title your next dog in multiple arenas!!


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Prism Goldens said:


> It doesn't matter in the least that you already have a breeder chosen... if you're interested in performance too, then watch that as well. You'll find the obedience classes usually across the building from conformation. Faux pas- don't say anything negative about any of the dogs in the ring, don't talk too loudly at all about anything actually... if you're sitting next to someone who seems willing to tell you what class is in, that's great, but if they have a dog in the ring don't interrupt their watching. Be sure to congratulate if they have a dog who wins it's class. Most people ringside will know the other people ringside- they can point folks out to you if you have a catalog and notice you really like a particular breeder's dogs... you'll have a great time I am sure. Kudos to you that you want to title your next dog in multiple arenas!!


Awesome. I appreciate your kind words. Fingers crossed that I actually accomplish my goals. I only got a CGC on bear before he passed and I haven't done jack with Gypsy. But I've got plans for this one. And I honestly hope it works out. My breeder is awesome. She's been an absolute delight. Only 50 more days to go. ? 

If all pans out his/her first show will be in January (conformation). Probably closer to 2 years before I compete in performance venues. I want to really get the focus down. Hoping fenzi academy will help with that. 

Bear had the most amazing recall to front. He would fly like my life depended on it. It was the one good thing he did in his first obedience class. I had to use cheese whiz to get him to heel. Oh I remember being so embarrassed. But **** what I would give to have him back. 

But new beginnings with the puppy. Different dog. Clean slate. Starting from scratch. ?


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Prism Goldens said:


> It doesn't matter in the least that you already have a breeder chosen... Kudos to you that you want to title your next dog in multiple arenas!!


I agree with this completely. Actually, most of the wonderful people I've met, I've met AFTER I got Rocket, and I love his breeder to death. The only problem with meeting new breeders after you've already got a puppy, is that you might end up wanting a puppy from all of them! (And if you're like me, your significant other will have a limit of the number of dogs in the house at once...)

And definitely kudos to you @Brave for wanting to get lots of titles! I would have loved to show Rocket in conformation, but he was cryptorchid and he unfortunately never got to standard height, so performance events it is for us! We love Rally and I always try to recruit people to the sport. He was not quite two when he got his RN title, so I totally understand wanting to wait until your pup is a bit older to do performance.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I find every show has its own personality. I enjoy Specialties more, because they are more owner handlers than professional handlers. They feel more like a family reunion.

I really enjoy talking to the people around me. Have learned a lot from many of them, you can usually tell who is more social than others. Always congratulate and never say anything bad about a dog, the owner might be sitting next to you.

If there are vendors there, bring money. This is the easiest place to buy things in person, such as grooming tools and show leashes, even high end shampoos, that your local Petco or Petsmart will not carry.

Have fun!


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

I have no plans on being a breeder. Do you think it's a waste (silly?) to put a Championship on a dog that won't be bred? Since it's meant to evaluate breeding stock? Will I be a laughing stock as an newbie owner who doesn't really know the standard that well, trying to title my dog? Obviously I'm trying to learn it. But it's all over my head. Reading and seeing are two different things. Ya know? 

My breeder will be handling the dog in the ring (thankfully cause I'm about as graceful as a baby elephant) for conformation. I'll be handling the performance stuff (since that's more my jam). But gosh I do love to watch dogs.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Nah!! If you want your dog shown in conformation, go for it 


There is so much more to having a 'breedable' dog than a CH, and if your dog wins over breeder's dogs then they know areas that need improvement, right? And all dogs have areas where they need improvement.


FWIW - I personally do not look for show champions when it comes to deciding who I want my girls to be bred to  I go for proven working ability, lovely movement in the field and other characteristics. 





Brave said:


> I have no plans on being a breeder. Do you think it's a waste (silly?) to put a Championship on a dog that won't be bred? Since it's meant to evaluate breeding stock? Will I be a laughing stock as an newbie owner who doesn't really know the standard that well, trying to title my dog? Obviously I'm trying to learn it. But it's all over my head. Reading and seeing are two different things. Ya know?
> 
> My breeder will be handling the dog in the ring (thankfully cause I'm about as graceful as a baby elephant) for conformation. I'll be handling the performance stuff (since that's more my jam). But gosh I do love to watch dogs.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Sunrise said:


> Nah!! If you want your dog shown in conformation, go for it
> 
> 
> There is so much more to having a 'breedable' dog than a CH, and if your dog wins over breeder's dogs then they know areas that need improvement, right? And all dogs have areas where they need improvement.
> ...


You're the best! You all are always sooooooo incredibly encouraging and helpful. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.  

I'm hoping to be present when the puppies are evaluated so I can see how people see the flaws and what not. It's all a learning experience.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Check with the breeder, but I believe each puppy mimics their adult conformation at 7 weeks. So perhaps you can visit at the 49 day mark ? Whether the puppy testing occurs that day or not -- pups change so quickly 


And thanks !!


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## kjengold (Jun 19, 2007)

There is nothing wrong with showing your golden even if you don't plan on breeding. People do it all the time, including myself. I enjoy showing and if I have a golden I believe is worthy of a CH I go for it. 

My second show golden, Kylie, I did buy with the intention of breeding, but she had juvenile cataracts. When I found out she had cataracts, we were showing regularly and having fun. I wasn't about to quit. I put most of the points on her and then had a junior handler put the rest on to finish her. She was spayed and never bred.

The first golden I bred, Tulley, I showed and put most of the minor points on him from the puppy classes. When I did prelims on him at a year old, I found out he was dysplastic. Again, we were having fun, half way to his CH and I didn't want to quit. I ended up putting him with a handler for his majors, so he'd become a CH. I left him intact, but he was never bred.

Some exhibitors knew Kylie and Tulley didn't pass clearances, but no one ever told me, I shouldn't be showing them. 

If you want to go for a CH, do it!


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Looks like the judging program is out.... I'm not sure what I'm looking at, to be honest. 

https://www.apps.akc.org//apps/even...dsp_generate_pdf.cfm?KEY_BINARY_CONTENT=38269 

Looks like it'll all happen in one ring and the sweepstakes goes first, and then the regular classes start @ 1030am.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Brave said:


> Looks like the judging program is out.... I'm not sure what I'm looking at, to be honest.
> 
> https://www.apps.akc.org//apps/even...dsp_generate_pdf.cfm?KEY_BINARY_CONTENT=38269
> 
> Looks like it'll all happen in one ring and the sweepstakes goes first, and then the regular classes start @ 1030am.


How did it go?

The breeder to my Kennedy's sire judged Sweeps, and she said she said is was a great time.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

cubbysan said:


> How did it go?
> 
> The breeder to my Kennedy's sire judged Sweeps, and she said she said is was a great time.


It was SOOOOOO much fun. Everyone was very nice. I fell in love with like 10 dogs. There was a Great Dane speciality and a Toy Fancier show going on at the same time. 

It was all outside and it was HOT. I think high 90's. We weren't there for long, got in around 9am, left around 1:30pm. But by 1:30 the heat had gotten to me and all I wanted was a nap and the A/C. 

It was hard for me to follow who won each class. I kept most of it straight but Open class was HUGE and then when they did Best of Breed (which I think counts as BISS) I got super confused. 

My brother came with me and he was bored out of his mind (which I felt bad about but eh). I was following the dogs and matching dogs with armbands and their numbers in my program.... marking down my observations so I could go over it with my breeder. 

She says I have a good eye (but idk it doesn't FEEL like I have a good eye, you know? Cause I can't really explain why I like one better than the other) But I'm going to get the Blue Book and try to read up and get a better understanding of form and function and hands on. With any luck I'll be able to observe the puppy evaluations next month and see what the evaluators think of each puppy and why.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

so happy for you! I have been doing it for a few years, and always knew what dogs I liked but did not know why - even with the standard in front of me. Just now, this year I am able to see that parts of the dog that are correct and not correct. Part of it took going to a seminar with me own dog, and going through the standard line by line over my dog. Funny thing is there are things on my dog that are very correct, that I thought were not because I was comparing him to the other dogs in the ring.

It can be a very long day, but can get very exciting. The last two specialties I went to it rained, so it was air was cool, but the wetness brought a whole other part of issues.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

cubbysan said:


> Part of it took going to a seminar with me own dog, and going through the standard line by line over my dog. Funny thing is there are things on my dog that are very correct, that I thought were not because I was comparing him to the other dogs in the ring.


Was it a CCA or some other seminar? If you're at liberty to share, I'd LOVE to hear more. I want to learn as much as I can.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Brave said:


> Was it a CCA or some other seminar? If you're at liberty to share, I'd LOVE to hear more. I want to learn as much as I can.


My breeder has a training building where she has all kinds of classes. This was a seminar given by a Sheltie breeder. There were only four of us, and three of us were had goldens. It was a few hours long going over standards, both generic and by breed. Interestingly enough he had drawings by Marcia Schlerr to show a dogs anatomy, not knowing who she was. My breeder will create any class that people are interested in, and bring in the right person. She gives golden retriever grooming seminars at least once a year. If you are ever in the Kansas City area.....


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

cubbysan said:


> My breeder has a training building where she has all kinds of classes. This was a seminar given by a Sheltie breeder. There were only four of us, and three of us were had goldens. It was a few hours long going over standards, both generic and by breed. Interestingly enough he had drawings by Marcia Schlerr to show a dogs anatomy, not knowing who she was. My breeder will create any class that people are interested in, and bring in the right person. She gives golden retriever grooming seminars at least once a year. If you are ever in the Kansas City area.....


I seriously need to make a road trip around and meet all you fabulous people I've come to know and love on this forum. Same goes for you, if you're ever in the San Diego area....  

I get that Marcia Schlehr is the artist who drew the anatomical diagrams/pictures for the Blue Book. Other than that I have no clue who she is. Do you know more info on her?


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Brave said:


> I seriously need to make a road trip around and meet all you fabulous people I've come to know and love on this forum. Same goes for you, if you're ever in the San Diego area....
> 
> I get that Marcia Schlehr is the artist who drew the anatomical diagrams/pictures for the Blue Book. Other than that I have no clue who she is. Do you know more info on her?


We have actually hired her twice in the past 4 years to be a judge at our specialty, last time was in May. She is the one that has done the drawings for the standard, is very highly respected. Some people love to show under her, others do not. From what I am learning, she like a moderate dog with good movement. Does not like the dogs all fluffed up in the ring.

I am still learning so much too. I think one never stops learning. After the shows, I have the privilege to go out to dinner with some of these judges, and have even driven some back to the airport. I have had some of the most interesting conversations with them. This last specialty we had was kind of interesting because we had about 6 breeder judges enter their dogs and show them. Interesting listening and watching them as spectators and handlers.

Get involved with your club. I now have so many mentors, people that cheer my daughter and me, and people that know my dogs.


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