# Markings?



## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

I could be wrong but I think they are only allowed a white blaze on their chests.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Color
> Rich, lustrous golden of various shades. Feathering may be lighter than rest of coat. With the exception of graying or whitening of face or body due to age, any white marking, other than a* few* white hairs on the chest, should be penalized according to its extent. *Allowable light shadings are not to be confused with white markings*. Predominant body color which is either extremely pale or extremely dark is undesirable. Some latitude should be given to the light puppy whose coloring shows promise of deepening with maturity. Any noticeable area of black or other off-color hair is a serious fault.


Here you go.


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## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

Thanks Oaklys Dad. Will be interested to hear what others say. If it's allowed, I wonder why there aren't more. I assume it's not desired in the show ring--but I wonder if it's frowned upon with breeders.


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## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

Thanks Megora! (and now you know you were right OD!  )

Here's another question, then....

Can two purebred labs have pups with white face markings? Would that mean they were mixed, or would it be "bad breeding"? Or just a fluke?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Do you have a picture? 

I know of some non-conformation type goldens who were born with white markings on their heads. The markings went away with the puppy coat though. That's different than a white strip down the face, which (to me) sounds like mixxy.


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## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

Let me see if I can find it again....


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Greenstone Labradors » Understanding mismarks in the purebred Labrador



> White Hair Conditions in Labs
> First, we want to let you know that white hairs on a Labrador are not all are considered mismarks. Some white is permissible under the AKC standard and is fairly common. The standard says, “A small white spot on the chest is permissible, but no desirable”. The bottom line is that you can show a dog with a white spot on its chest if it is “small”, however, that spot will be penalized to some degree by some judges. A large spot will be penalized by most, and a “blaze” or white front would definitely be penalized and would be considered a mismark.
> There are several conditions that can produce white hair in Labs. Some of these conditions are determined by color genes and others may be caused by environmental factors that effect melanin production. Certainly white hairs and even patches are easily traced throughout the history of the Labrador Retriever.


No mention of stripes on the nose - which again, to me sounds like something else got into the breeding.

Here's another:



> MISMARKINGS: Yes, mismarking do occur in the Labrador breed. I really want to take a minute and say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with a mis-marked puppy!
> White seems to be the biggest bugaboo and most shunned marking in the Labrador breed. A small white spot, stripe or patch on the chest is very common and does not lessen the quality of a Labrador, nor indicate it is not pure bred. Sparse white hairs can appear on the tips of toes, between the footpads, on the heels, near the groin, and under the neck. However, if white spots are large and white markings are highly noticeable such as white feet/stockings or white tip tail, then this is not typical and could indicate the dog may be mixed with another breed. Scarring can also result in sparse white hairs on a Labrador.
> Splashing is described as a black Labrador with tan or yellowish hairs on the legs and sometimes neck and chest. This mis-marking looks as if the black lab ran through a mud puddle and was splashed with muddy water, hence the name Splashing. This is a mis-marking that had been noted in the breed for many generations. It is not wise to breed any Labrador that is splashed, as this will only perpetuate the gene for years to come. It does not affect the dogs ability to be an excellent pet or hunting companion.


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## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

Something like this is what I'm asking about:

http://0.tqn.com/w/experts/Golden-Retrievers-2532/2008/12/Abby-9-weeks.jpg


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

This looks like this golden pup has something _else_ in him. He's very cute though.


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## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

According to what I saw--they said it was PB. (The pic of this one showing). 

This isn't the exact dog that made me wonder --but close enough for example purposes!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Hello Layne- Wow, she is beautiful and this is a miss mark but NOT bad breeding...Just sometimes the markings are not 100% golden and they do call this a MISS marking.
> NO Big deal and very healthy (huh? Why?!)...
> 
> Make sure you feed her a good quality food and use NuVET...
> NuVET vitamins : here/


I wouldn't call that lady an expert.


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## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

Ok, I was just wondering if it was "allowed". I assumed if it was a good thing, we would've seen a whole lot more of it by now. Thanks!


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Wagners Mom said:


> Can golden puppies have any white markings?
> 
> I just saw some pics of a pup with a white strip down it's face. I've not seen it before, so was wondering.


 
Any markings other than as described in the breed standard are faults and will get a dog excused from the ring. However White Markings can and do appear in the breed and have been present since the very first goldens. (There were dogs that went into creating the breed that had white markings.) 

White markings were more common in the past. After the end of WWII a great deal of effort was made in the breed to reduce the white but it has not been totally eliminated genetically nor will it likely ever be totally gone. 

A breeder friend of mine did a litter about four years ago. Both the sire and dam were solid colored dogs with no white on them at all (both titled, and had been previously bred to other partners with success). On paper things looked great however the litter they produced was full of puppies with lots of white markings. From blazes of white on the chest to white dots on the top of the head. Some had white toe tips, white tail tips, one even had a white sock up to the top of the front pastern. There was not a single solid colored pup in the litter.



And that golden pup is more than likely 100% golden. 



.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

@Swampcollie - but when you have a whole litter like that, isn't there a possibility that some other breed got to mom while she was in heat? 

Did they do a dna test on the litter?


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Megora said:


> @Swampcollie - but when you have a whole litter like that, isn't there a possibility that some other breed got to mom while she was in heat?
> 
> Did they do a dna test on the litter?


There was ZERO chance. It was a AI litter with frozen semen surgically implanted. 

White markings have always been hiding in the breeds' genetic closet so to speak. Once in a while those traits jump out and bite you when you least expect it.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Swampcollie said:


> There was ZERO chance. It was a AI litter with frozen semen surgically implanted.


Yes, but was mom kept under lock and key to prevent other dogs from breeding with her? :uhoh: Keep in mind what little I know about taking care of females in heat comes from the horror stories told by people here about dogs mating through fences and whatnot. 



> White markings have always been hiding in the breeds' genetic closet so to speak. Once in a while those traits jump out and bite you when you least expect it.


I understand that. While I was googling around for the source of the pic of that puppy, I came across the Retrieverman's blog and a post he did focusing on mismarked goldens, etc. He claims that that working goldens or field goldens tend to mismarks pop up the most. That does make sense to me, since those goldens I've seen with white patches or white paws tend to be field or agility dogs. And one of the examples he used involved a female with a white tip to her tail producing a puppy with more noticable markings -



> My first litter of goldens included a bitch pup that had these socks. She was a very drivey little girl, just like her mother, who had a white tail tip.


That all said, I'm trying to sort out why you would have two solid colored dogs produce a litter with really off the wall markings, including socks and blazes. To me the simplest answer is there was a history of white marks in either of the parents history, or a different breed introduced himself to mom. 

http://retrieverman.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/a-golden-retriever-with-lots-of-white-on-it/

And if it simply is breeding dogs who have a history of mismarks in some way (breeding a female with a white tail tip), isn't that bad breeding? Basically if you breed a dog with a mismark, doesn't that make the markings more prevalent in the line?


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## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

Swampcollie said:


> Any markings other than as described in the breed standard are faults and will get a dog excused from the ring. However White Markings can and do appear in the breed and have been present since the very first goldens. (There were dogs that went into creating the breed that had white markings.)
> 
> White markings were more common in the past. After the end of WWII a great deal of effort was made in the breed to reduce the white but it has not been totally eliminated genetically nor will it likely ever be totally gone.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much, Swampcollie! You answered the questions in my mind. Very interesting!


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Lucky had the same small white star on his chest his mother had.


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