# Pictures of conformation dogs



## mylissyk

We see lots of the beautiful blond Goldens who have won conformation titles. I was wondering if anyone had pictures of a really dark gold or red Golden Retriever in a stack, or who had won a conformationi title? The blonds look very different to me than my red boy Robbie, Lilah is a blond, but she is more of the field type coat.


----------



## FairytaleGolden

mylissyk said:


> We see lots of the beautiful blond Goldens who have won conformation titles. I was wondering if anyone had pictures of a really dark gold or red Golden Retriever in a stack, or who had won a conformationi title? The blonds look very different to me than my red boy Robbie, Lilah is a blond, but she is more of the field type coat.


My very first post here.
Speaking of red coats, there is one that you dont wanna miss.Sadly he passed away just under a week ago. Rest in peace Crosby.

*BIS/BISS Am/Can CH Rush Hill Xcentuate th' Pawsitiv SDHF (Crosby)*


----------



## katieanddusty

All of the darker-colored conformation Goldens I've seen are darker-colored versions of the lighter ones, with virtually no difference in their structure.


----------



## kerribear's golden kids

FairytaleGolden said:


> My very first post here.
> Speaking of red coats, there is one that you dont wanna miss.Sadly he passed away just under a week ago. Rest in peace Crosby.
> 
> *BIS/BISS Am/Can CH Rush Hill Xcentuate th' Pawsitiv SDHF (Crosby)*


He is Beautiful...So sad to hear of his passing...
Thanks for sharing...


----------



## kerribear's golden kids

mylissyk said:


> We see lots of the beautiful blond Goldens who have won conformation titles. I was wondering if anyone had pictures of a really dark gold or red Golden Retriever in a stack, or who had won a conformationi title? The blonds look very different to me than my red boy Robbie, Lilah is a blond, but she is more of the field type coat.


Your Lilah reminds me so much of My Kuddles...Nemo is a Red Golden...both have more field coat though...Here are some of my Red Golden Nemo..He is not a show dog but still Red...Last pic is of Kuddles & Nemo..you can see the color diff...


----------



## Griffyn'sMom

*Rush Hill Xcentuate th' Pawsitiv was gorgeous - so sad - he wasn't quite 8 yet. *


----------



## Tahnee GR

Crosby was indeed a beautiful dog, and so typical of the Rush Hill lines. His owner, Mary, is quite distraught. My heart goes out to her.


----------



## vrocco1

katieanddusty said:


> All of the darker-colored conformation Goldens I've seen are darker-colored versions of the lighter ones, with virtually no difference in their structure.


Why would there be a difference in strucure? Is there a different standard for darker dogs?


----------



## GoldenJoyx'stwo

His k9data photo is even more stunning...


----------



## Joe

I've checked Rush Hill's website and they have really georgous looking Goldens. 
Welcome
also their tribute to Kirby:
A Tribute to Kirby...


----------



## mylissyk

katieanddusty said:


> All of the darker-colored conformation Goldens I've seen are darker-colored versions of the lighter ones, with virtually no difference in their structure.


I had never actually seen a dark gold conformation dog though. I knew the structure would be the same.


----------



## mylissyk

FairytaleGolden said:


> My very first post here.
> Speaking of red coats, there is one that you dont wanna miss.Sadly he passed away just under a week ago. Rest in peace Crosby.
> 
> *BIS/BISS Am/Can CH Rush Hill Xcentuate th' Pawsitiv SDHF (Crosby)*


 
Welcome to the board, thank you for sharing the pictures. Crosby is beautiful. I'm so sorry he passed. Was he only 8? May I ask what happened?


----------



## Griffyn'sMom

Love that Kirby site - for some reason they removed his 8 week evaluation video - it was clear even at that time he was going to be something special. Wish I could find that again.


----------



## GoldenJoyx'stwo

All of our Goldens are so tied to each other in some way or another, Sire, Dam, and on, and on. It's heartbreaking when any of them pass.


----------



## GoldenJoyx'stwo

Here you go Jo
Candid Videos .


----------



## mylissyk

Kimm said:


> His k9data photo is even more stunning...


Wow! you were not kidding. He's stunning!

Pedigree: BIS/BISS Am/Can CH Rush Hill Xcentuate th' Pawsitiv SDHF


----------



## Griffyn'sMom

Kimm said:


> Here you go Jo
> Candid Videos .


Oooh Thanks Kimm - they changed their format to tabs - that's why I didn't see it - Thankie!


----------



## tintallie

Is this dark red enough for you? 
Pedigree: BIS AmCan CH. Fyreglo's Family Circus SDHF










The dog above is Wiggles' sire and he is currently the 2nd Golden Retriever in Conformation when I was reading Dogs in Canada at Indigo.

Here is an example of a dual champion in field and conformation...I wish I had one of his pups!

Pedigree: Can. Dual CH AFTCH Firemark's Push Comes to Shove Am.***


----------



## GoldenJoyx'stwo

Now that's cool. Val is a wonderful person. I had no idea Push is Wiggles' sire. I remember when they were getting ready for a big event at their place. Val took the time to email me even though she was extremely busy. What a nice lady I found her to be.

Oops....sorry I just re-read your post.


----------



## tintallie

nono PJ is Wiggles' sire...that's the first dog...Push is not his sire....and he's the 2nd dog


----------



## GoldenJoyx'stwo

tintallie said:


> nono PJ is Wiggles' sire...that's the first dog...Push is not his sire....and he's the 2nd dog


Yeah, I read that after. Sorry...I know who Push is.


----------



## katieanddusty

vrocco1 said:


> Why would there be a difference in strucure? Is there a different standard for darker dogs?


I know ... she said that Robbie looks very different from most of the lighter-colored conformation Goldens, so my point was that he probably looks just a bit less different from darker-colored ones too, because the only difference is the darker color ...


----------



## vrocco1

katieanddusty said:


> I know ... she said that Robbie looks very different from most of the lighter-colored conformation Goldens, so my point was that he probably looks just a bit less different from darker-colored ones too, because the only difference is the darker color ...


I'm just clueless about those things. That is why I asked.


----------



## Ardeagold

If you look at Push in comparison to the others, the most obvious differences are the lack of heavy coat/feathering and the bone density. The amount of hair, or bone isn't specifically mandated in the breed standard, as is the height, for example.

So, there are some differences, but the pictured dogs all still meet the standard, no matter what their particular variation of "gold" is. (As long as they're a shade of gold....neither too light or too dark, per the GRCA).

I'm so sorry to hear about Crosby. My heartfelt condolences go out to his owner. How terribly sad.


----------



## mylissyk

He's stunning! And Push is an outstanding Golden, I had seen his pic before.

I think I have a strong preference for the reds! They are just taking my breath away.



tintallie said:


> Is this dark red enough for you?
> Pedigree: BIS AmCan CH. Fyreglo's Family Circus SDHF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The dog above is Wiggles' sire and he is currently the 2nd Golden Retriever in Conformation when I was reading Dogs in Canada at Indigo.
> 
> Here is an example of a dual champion in field and conformation...I wish I had one of his pups!
> 
> Pedigree: Can. Dual CH AFTCH Firemark's Push Comes to Shove Am.***


----------



## mylissyk

Here is Robbie's pseudo-stack. This is from last year, his coat is in bad condition this summer. He's not a conformation show dog, but I think he's beautiful anyway.


----------



## katieanddusty

Does anyone know how Crosby passed away, and is it common for dogs from those lines to pass away that young? He was younger than Dusty is ...


----------



## GoldenJoyx'stwo

Crosby is in Tucker's lines. I think, Shadow's too. I do remember one other dog (and I'd have to go back to be sure) passing away at a young age. No one would ever say what happened to the other dog, so you may never find out. Tucker's Grandmother passed away at the age of 11 I believe, so I'm hoping his genes come from her side of the family.


----------



## MaddieMagoo

Your dogs are so beatiful!! 

Our Golden looks nothing compared to him! But she does obedience and agility...I'm not saying they can't be stunning but....they have such beatiful coats and plume!! 

So sorry to hear he passed away...poor little guy...


----------



## arcane

katieanddusty said:


> Does anyone know how Crosby passed away, and is it common for dogs from those lines to pass away that young? He was younger than Dusty is ...


I don't think that his owner has made that public statement to date..I imagine she may need time to just absorb that he is gone


----------



## BeauShel

All I can say about this is "WOW" he is stunning. I am so sorry that he passed away way to soon. I love those red kids.


----------



## Ljilly28

I noticed a 2008 litter with Crosby as the sire:
http://www.everythinggolden.com/snyder_litter.htm


----------



## molmotta

Ljilly28 said:


> I noticed a 2008 litter with Crosby as the sire:
> http://www.everythinggolden.com/snyder_litter.htm


AI? :crossfing


----------



## Ljilly28

molmotta said:


> AI? :crossfing


I guess so- I remembered this thread about him. He was a beauty.


----------



## molmotta

Ljilly28 said:


> I guess so- I remembered this thread about him. He was a beauty.


Yes, he's gorgeous. I was considering a pup sired by him but somehow I wasnt too convinced that Crosby is truly the sire... So I decided to drop the idea.


----------



## Pointgold

Snyder Goldens. Kyle Snyder. Kyle is the 12 year old son of Denny and Audra Snyder, who were the handlers responsible for Jag's death,then lied about it (he was left to hang on a grooming table) and after a very long, painful legal battle fought by his owner, were found guilty of neglect and lost their AKC privileges, and the CKC followed suit and honored the AKC's decision. Now, they are using a 12 year old's name to carry on... They are not even allowed on a show site, and groom the dogs off site and send Kyle in with them. 
They are also brokering the sales of dogs to Asian countries for very large sums of money.

No thanks.


----------



## Tahnee GR

Pointgold said:


> Snyder Goldens. Kyle Snyder. Kyle is the 12 year old son of Denny and Audra Snyder, who were the handlers responsible for Jag's death,then lied about it (he was left to hang on a grooming table) and after a very long, painful legal battle fought by his owner, were found guilty of neglect and lost their AKC privileges, and the CKC followed suit and honored the AKC's decision. Now, they are using a 12 year old's name to carry on... They are not even allowed on a show site, and groom the dogs off site and send Kyle in with them.
> They are also brokering the sales of dogs to Asian countries for very large sums of money.
> 
> No thanks.


Now that's just sad-you have to feel sorry for the innocent child, and I am sure that is what his parents are banking on.


----------



## Debles

Can I ask... who is Jag? That sounds more horrible than I can imagine. How can these people be allowed to continue?


----------



## Ash

Debles said:


> Can I ask... who is Jag? That sounds more horrible than I can imagine. How can these people be allowed to continue?


http://www.oes.org/page2/4375~In_Memory_of_Jag-_please_sign_this_petition.html

It was tragic and heartbreaking something every owner worries about when sending their dogs out with a handler. RIP Jag


----------



## Debles

That is so horrible I can't even say. It's awful these people are still in business.
What's even worse was these poor people looking for their "lost"dog! 
I shouldn't even say this but I was wondering if they even got him back, his ashes. Who knows what those awful people did with him.

I signed the petition.


----------



## Ash

I believe they found his body though I might be mistaken. Someone like Linda or Laura probably knows a for sure answer. IMO its the lying about it that did it for me.


----------



## Ljilly28

Pointgold said:


> Snyder Goldens. Kyle Snyder. Kyle is the 12 year old son of Denny and Audra Snyder, who were the handlers responsible for Jag's death,then lied about it (he was left to hang on a grooming table) and after a very long, painful legal battle fought by his owner, were found guilty of neglect and lost their AKC privileges, and the CKC followed suit and honored the AKC's decision. Now, they are using a 12 year old's name to carry on... They are not even allowed on a show site, and groom the dogs off site and send Kyle in with them.
> They are also brokering the sales of dogs to Asian countries for very large sums of money.
> 
> No thanks.


This is the most valuable forum of all time- I could see how easy it might be to assume anyone with access to a Crosby litter with an ad on Everything G was above board. How come they are allowed on everything goldens? They must be utterly despicable to use Kyle like that, and Jag's owner's went through double hell bc of the lying. How could they live with themselves? I got teary reading the petition story.


----------



## Tahnee GR

Jag's body was never recovered. He was a beautiful boy who did not deserve to die that way.

I think everyone could have accepted that an accident happened, it was the lying about it that pushed the envelope. The Snyders never really did admit what happened.

I notice that the Jag Come Home Page is down, and I also saw that the pages where his "lost dog" info was posted are still up.


----------



## Ljilly28

It seems as though the Snyders handle some big name dogs

Gold-Rush National Treasure July 9, 2006	"Nate" again takes winners on the second day of the Ann Arbor Kennel Club Show for 2 points, under Judge Mr. Sam Houston McDonald, handled by Denny Snyder.
Gold-Rush National Treasure July 8, 2006	"Nate" takes Winners at the Ann Arbor Kennel Club Show for another 2 points, under Judge Mrs. Betsy A. Yates, handled by Denny Snyder.
Gold-Rush National Treasure July 1, 2006	"Nate" takes Winners at the Mid-Del-Tinker Kennel Club show under Judge Mr. Charles L. Olvis, handled by Audra Snyder.


----------



## Debles

The whole thing is despicable. I understand if it was an "accident" while you were standing there , he jumped off and hung himself. But to go off and show other dogs with him standing there? Then lie? and let the poor owners do all that hunting for him?

I am so protective when I did take my boys to a groomers, I held them while they were groomed. But since Gunner is so grouchy about other dogs, I groom them myself. They of course aren't close to show quality groomed but they are safe and still beautiful.


----------



## Debles

I can't believe Gold Rush let's her handle their dogs?


----------



## AmbikaGR

At this petiton site is a brief recap of this tragedy. http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/jagdeservesjustice At the end is what the Snyders actually "admitted" to. It reads

_On September 11, 2006, both Audra Snyder and Dennis Snyder signed a_
_Court document in which they stated, in part, "For all of the_
_circumstances which led to this unhappy event, we are deeply and_
_profoundly sorry. We take responsibility for the loss of Jag, WHEREVER IT OCCURED"._ 

As many have stated the fact that he was left on a table unattended, which led to his death was a terrible accident that did not need to occur, the fact that the Snyders concocted such a tale and led the owners on such an elaborate search in just unforgivable. 
As a side note this was not Denny Snyder's first suspension from the AKC.


----------



## Ljilly28

And it seems like they paid 10,000 to Jag's owner???


----------



## Debles

What even blows me away more: The Snyders tried to get a judge to let them have the money people had donated for the loss /search for Jag. The Snyders wanted it for their legal fees!
These people are criminals and I don't even understand how anyone could hire them!
or let them near their precious dogs!


----------



## Ljilly28

What confused me at first is that I think of Jag as AmCH Nautilus Just A Gigilo SDHF.


----------



## Pointgold

Ash said:


> I believe they found his body though I might be mistaken. Someone like Linda or Laura probably knows a for sure answer. IMO its the lying about it that did it for me.


 
No, Janis never even was allowed that closure. No body was ever found. She has been through hell over this.

The weekend that Jag "went missing", the Snyders didn't even look for him. (Of course, they knew there was nothing to look for.) Instead they went to the Mile-Hi Specialty and Longmont Shows, where they were having a gay old time, laughing it up, and Audra even tried to hustle my Open Dog, Graham. I would no sooner have sent a dog out with them as I would with Michael Vick.

My heart breaks whenever I think about what Janis went through.


----------



## Ash

Thanks Linda and Laura for some reason I thought they did find him. Thanks for confirmation.


----------



## Ljilly28

Pointgold said:


> No, Janis never even was allowed that closure. No body was ever found. She has been through hell over this.
> 
> The weekend that Jag "went missing", the Snyders didn't even look for him. (Of course, they knew there was nothing to look for.) Instead they went to the Mile-Hi Specialty and Longmont Shows, where they were having a gay old time, laughing it up, and Audra even tried to hustle my Open Dog, Graham. I would no sooner have sent a dog out with them as I would with Michael Vick.
> 
> My heart breaks whenever I think about what Janis went through.


This story terrifies me. You would think the Snyders would have been stricken and heartsick. Do you think they panicked, and then dug themselves in deeper and deeper trying to act like nothing happened, or do you think they are very cold and callous? This is a horrific glimpse of the worst side of animal showing. With Morgan horses, handlers sometimes put acid on a horse's lower leg and attatch a chain, so that he will pick his feet up higher; jumping horses get "poled"- people raise a bar after they jump so that they hit their feet. This makes them clear a jump by more margin than they would naturally. It is sad when an animal becomes an object in the eyes of his/her handlers.

Why to big name kennels still use them?


----------



## Ljilly28

One more thing about this. How ia the AKC letting them use Kyle's name adn how could they get an AI with Crosby? I would think they'd be shunned, just pariahs. Is this a two side, take sides story?


----------



## Debles

I read somewhere that the Snyders had alot of supporters. My question is why?
I would put as many miles between my dogs and these people as I possibly could.

I quit doing obedience trials because of cheating and the "dog eat dog" mentality.
This is so much worse.


----------



## Ljilly28

Debles said:


> I read somewhere that the Snyders had alot of supporters. My question is why?
> I would put as many miles between my dogs and these people as I possibly could.
> 
> I quit doing obedience trials because of cheating and the "dog eat dog" mentality.
> This is so much worse.



If they have to use a kid's name as cover, then they must be guilty of something pretty offical. In which case, I am dumbfounded that Evrythinggoldens lets them put up a litter announcement and Ann Johnson hires them to show her dogs.


----------



## Pointgold

The Snyder's did a lot of winning. And sadly, for some, winning is everything. They did, and do, have supporters, but their number is far, far less than those who abhor them and what they did. It was my understanding, perhaps mistakenly, and I 'll check, that if a person is suspended from the AKC, then immediate family members are, too. But that may only be if they were listed as co-owners.

The entire situation is sickening. There was a link to the property info of the Snyder residence, with photos. That alone would have prevented me from using them... They have no kennel, a dollhouse sized home (2 adults and 3 or 4 children...) and dogs live in crates in their rig - a modified horse trailer.


----------



## historicprim

Since I know all parties involved in this HORRIBLE incident I will post my opinion on why people (not just Ann Johnson) continued to use the Synders as handlers.
And that would be the fact that people are innocent until proven guilty, and many people believed at the time that they may have been telling the truth. Simple as that! This isnt meant to be sarcastic, just a reply to a question above since someone asked.


----------



## Ljilly28

historicprim said:


> Since I know all parties involved in this HORRIBLE incident I will post my opinion on why people (not just Ann Johnson) continued to use the Synders as handlers.
> And that would be the fact that people are innocent until proven guilty, and many people believed at the time that they may have been telling the truth. Simple as that! This isnt meant to be sarcastic, just a reply to a question above since someone asked.


Historicprim, do the people who use Audra Snyder in 200&, 2008 believe she is not guilty? No need for sarcasm bc the question is very sincere. What are the facts?


----------



## arcane

my only response to this is: I certainly hope that the folks who continue to use and support these handlers never experience the horror,grief,tragic loss that Janis, Teddy, and dear poor Jag did.


----------



## historicprim

Ljilly28 said:


> Historicprim, do the people who use Audra Snyder in 200&, 2008 believe she is not guilty? No need for sarcasm bc the question is very sincere. What are the facts?


:doh:I knew I shouldnt have responded to this thread..lol..In no way shape or form am I defending the Snyders. I was just stating (my) opinion on why some may have decided to take a "wait and see" on what facts come out.

I have know idea why people would still be using them since the akc ruling. All I did was answer your question in my opinion as to why people may have given them reasonable doubt.


----------



## Pointgold

I think that at this time it is a moot point, as the AKC has suspended both the Snyders for 10 years. And I believe rightfully so. So, getting around it by using their very minor son, Kyle, is IMO unconscionable. As I understand it, the Snyder's groom and prep the dogs just off the show site, and send Kyle in with them. Nice.


----------



## molmotta

Pointgold said:


> Snyder Goldens. Kyle Snyder. Kyle is the 12 year old son of Denny and Audra Snyder, who were the handlers responsible for Jag's death,then lied about it (he was left to hang on a grooming table) and after a very long, painful legal battle fought by his owner, were found guilty of neglect and lost their AKC privileges, and the CKC followed suit and honored the AKC's decision. Now, they are using a 12 year old's name to carry on... They are not even allowed on a show site, and groom the dogs off site and send Kyle in with them.
> They are also brokering the sales of dogs to Asian countries for very large sums of money.
> 
> No thanks.


I was aghast when I first heard the news about Jag. It really terrifies me as I am also involved in showing my girl and I leave the grooming to someone else. 

That being said, as an Asian living in an Asian country, I cannot help but feel a little pinch at the last comment. Are Asians really that bad in the eyes of the Western countries? I'm not trying to start a quarrel here, but I do want to understand why.


----------



## Ljilly28

Greater Houston Golden Retriever Club
3/16/2007

2.25.2007

140	GOLD-RUSH CANTERBURY TAILS. SR146307/06. 02/03/2004. BREEDER: R Ann Johnson. By Ch Sunbeam's Private Party-Ch Gold-Rush Kathie Lee. OWNER: R Ann Johnson & David Chan. AGENT: Audra Snyder.

3/23/2007
NALYN'S ONE MAN SHOW. SR374641/02. 08/06/2006. BREEDER: Marc Gratiot / Nancy L Gratiot. By Ch Quailwoods Music Man CD-Nalyn's Stage Lights. OWNER: Nancy L Gratiot /Joanne Evans. AGENT: Audra Snyder.

Houston 2007
CH CHARISMA'S SPEAKING OF THE DEVIL. SR154384/03. 03/16/2004. Dog. BREEDER: Anne M & Doug Linden. By Charisma's Hollyrock Boolvard-Charisma'S C'Oh Pacabana. OWNER: Rebecca McKee & David Harper. AGENT: Audra Snyder.


----------



## Tahnee GR

molmotta said:


> That being said, as an Asian living in an Asian country, I cannot help but feel a little pinch at the last comment. Are Asians really that bad in the eyes of the Western countries? I'm not trying to start a quarrel here, but I do want to understand why.


It is not the fact of being Asian, or Asian countries necessarily, but that this often happens without proper care and knowledge of where the dog is going to end up-witness Jackson's story below. And it is much harder to recover a dog who is thousands of miles away, across the sea:

http://www.claircrest.com/howmanymore.htm

Jackson's former owner, who had sold him to Japan in the first place, wrote a formal letter of apology, stating that she had no idea this was going to happen.

I see the same thing happening now in reverse, with dogs from Eastern European show lines being sold to high volume breeders in the United States hoping to cash in on the public's demand for "cream" goldens.

And, at least in the past, Americans sold dogs overseas for huge amounts of money knowing that the dogs were not quality dogs, or had not passed all clearances. This created huge problems for some overseas kennels.

After my friend exhibited her BIS golden bitch at Westminster years ago, she was approached by a broker who told her he could get her $40,000 for Holly. No mention of who wanted her, why, etc., just the money she could get. She did not sell her, nor did she sell her son Dickens years later, when she was offered $10,000 (to start) for him.

Would I sell a dog to Asia? It depends. I would need to get to know the person, just like I do here, not merely get a call from a third party who is a broker. And I don't think I could ever justify selling a dog for thousands more than I would here in the States, just because I could. I don't charge a doctor or lawyer more for a puppy than I do the convenience store worker.

There are very many excellent Asian kennels, and many have legitimately purchased dogs from the States. The GRCA News has published articles interviewing some excellent breeders and kennels overseas, and judges who go overseas to judge have published very good articles about their experiences.

It is the brokering, and the often obscene amounts of money changing hands, as well as the sometimes questionable quality of the dogs sold, that has left a bad tast in the mouth of many Golden breeders. I can't speak exactly to the Snyder's, but in general, this is what has happened in the past.


----------



## Pointgold

molmotta, no offense was meant at all as regards the Asian people. My issue is with Americans who broker dogs to Asian countries, (and others) for exhorbitant sums of money - often dogs that have not been able to get their clearances here in the US - for far more money than they would ever get here. And sadly, some of the dogs are sold to situations that are not ideal for the dogs, ie little living space. That said, I KNOW that there are wonderful homes in Asian countries, but there is no reason to take advantage of the buyers and sell them dogs at extremely inflated prices. Normal sales price plus shipping costs would be more appropriate. I would also want to know the home the dog is going to, just as with a sale here in the US, rather than simply shipping a dog off because a buyer is will to pay an unfair price.

I am sorry to have offended you, my comment was not intended to debase the Asian people.





molmotta said:


> I was aghast when I first heard the news about Jag. It really terrifies me as I am also involved in showing my girl and I leave the grooming to someone else.
> 
> That being said, as an Asian living in an Asian country, I cannot help but feel a little pinch at the last comment. Are Asians really that bad in the eyes of the Western countries? I'm not trying to start a quarrel here, but I do want to understand why.


----------



## Packleader

I just read the story of Jackson posted by Tahnee. I have stopped sobbing and may stop crying in a few days. How tragic, wonderful and heartwrenching the story was. I have planned for a while that when I someday build my home and kennel that there will always be room for rescued goldens and others in transition to a new home. It is my dream and that dream was just reaffirmed by this story.


----------



## arcane

Oh my gosh...I am bawling tooo....sweet sweet Jackson! thank you Linda for sharing that...my heart breaks for the ones left to suffer.


----------



## Ash

I have read that before but thats what dogs, not just in Asian countries but dogs right in North Americans own backyards go through each and everyday.


----------



## GoldenJoyx'stwo

Pointgold said:


> Snyder Goldens. Kyle Snyder. Kyle is the 12 year old son of Denny and Audra Snyder, who were the handlers responsible for Jag's death,then lied about it (he was left to hang on a grooming table) and after a very long, painful legal battle fought by his owner, were found guilty of neglect and lost their AKC privileges, and the CKC followed suit and honored the AKC's decision. Now, they are using a 12 year old's name to carry on... They are not even allowed on a show site, and groom the dogs off site and send Kyle in with them.
> They are also brokering the sales of dogs to Asian countries for very large sums of money.
> 
> No thanks.


Gosh I remember this story and I still have Jag's photo saved on my computer. I remember Jackson's story, too.


----------



## Debles

Kimm, can you post Jag's picture?


----------



## molmotta

Thanks Tahnee and PG. No worries, no offense taken. Like I said, I want to understand. What you two just said makes perfect sense. 

"..._Americans who broker dogs to Asian countries, (and others) for exhorbitant sums of money - often dogs that have not been able to get their clearances here in the US - for far more money than they would ever get here._" 

But sadly, many try to make a quick buck out of selling dogs that _"...were not quality dogs, or had not passed all clearances_". I would dare to add, that some of these are well-known show kennels - though I shall not name who. 

The dog show game seems to be slowly grinding to a position where only the rich can "participate". Because only they can afford that US40K - US100K for a dog to show.


----------



## Ash

Well I am pretty disappointed that they would allow that litter to be advertised on that site under the boys name fully knowing the situation.


----------



## Ljilly28

I looked at Snyder on k9.data and it seems as though the Snyder family owns lots of goldens, and that PG is more than right about the overseas marketing. One curiosity is why Crosby's owner breeds to them?


----------



## AmbikaGR

Ljilly28 said:


> I looked at Snyder on k9.data and it seems as though the Snyder family owns lots of goldens, and that PG is more than right about the overseas marketing. One curiosity is why Crosby's owner breeds to them?


Crosby's owner, Mary Meador, was/is one of the Snyder's biggest backers. She was very vocal during this entire tragedy professing the Snyder's innocense and right to earn a living in the dog world. There were many heated "discussions" on a list I am on that eventually got out of control and the list owner eventually banned Mary - not for her position so much as her e-net etiquette if my failing memory serves me correctly.


----------



## Debles

Well, I hope her dogs don't find out the hard way about the Snyders.


----------



## Ljilly28

AmbikaGR said:


> Crosby's owner, Mary Meador, was/is one of the Snyder's biggest backers. She was very vocal during this entire tragedy professing the Snyder's innocense and right to earn a living in the dog world. There were many heated "discussions" on a list I am on that eventually got out of control and the list owner eventually banned Mary - not for her position so much as her e-net etiquette if my failing memory serves me correctly.


Wow- I guess Ms. Meador really puts her money where her mouth is by letting the Snyders breed Crosby ltters. I am glad to hear about this second-hand as my stomach would probably have been in knots long before Mary was banned. I just simply dont see how anyone could back up the lies part, even if Jag's death were an awful accident. Also, it is blatant defiance of AKC it seems, to use Kyle and Brandon's names. She profits from AKC, so she should abide by its rules.


----------



## Debles

This thread has gotten so long, I forgot, who is Crosby?


----------



## Ash

The Rush Hill stud that passed away last year. Rush Hills Xcentuate The Pawstitive very gorgeous boy handled by the Snyder's.


----------



## Debles

What did he die from?


----------



## Pointgold

Debles said:


> What did he die from?


He had cancer.


----------



## Ash

I believe it was some form of cancer he died very young.


----------



## Ash

LOL PG I think we were replying at the same time.


----------



## Ljilly28

Ash said:


> LOL PG I think we were replying at the same time.



Would you worry about his puppies having cancer at a young age ?


----------



## Pointgold

Ljilly28 said:


> Would you worry about his puppies having cancer at a young age ?


I certainly would. I avoid any lines that are known to have a high incidence of cancers. Yes, it limits me. Yes, it may mean that I am not breeding to the Stud Dog Du Jour. For me, the "average age of a Golden Retriever being 10 years" is NOT acceptable. 
Winning is NOT everything. Don't get me wrong. I love to win, but not at the expense of the dog. I love these dogs, and if it were dicated to me that I could no longer compete, that would be fine by me as long as I could still live with them. And that they would have long, _healthy_ lives.


----------



## Ash

Ljilly28 said:


> Would you worry about his puppies having cancer at a young age ?


I certainly would. Its horrible to say but cancer is a huge problem in Goldens and affects many lines. Its hard to stay completely away from. Thats where ethics come in and breeding carefully and doing your research. Sometimes it just pops up. Breeding never ever a sure shot thing with 100% guarentee. There are a lot of dogs that I love and think they are stunning would I breed to them...... probably not.


----------



## Debles

he was certainly gorgeous and amazing. I cried all through his tribute page.


----------



## AmbikaGR

Ljilly28 said:


> Would you worry about his puppies having cancer at a young age ?


I will give a slightly different slant to some of the answers given so far. A little over a year ago I lost a 15 month old pup of my breeding - I have this pup's dam and grand dam still - to a form of luekemia. I was/am concerned about the heritability of this. I asked Dr Modiano at the U of Colorado his opinion on this and below is a part of his reply

As far as the genetics, we don't know the precise answer, but probably 
not. Risk is what it is, and whether it manifests young or old is a 
matter of how the inherent risk factors that exist interact with each 
other and the environment, so there is a bit of randomness to it all.
Some very specific types of cancer in people, and one type of cancer in 
dogs are known to be "heritable" in the sense that the risk is 
associated with mutation of a single gene (and the gene is different 
for each cancer syndrome recognized).

I found it very interesting that the experts - got basically the same reponse from a service dog organization geneticist - that they only have proof that on type of cancer in dogs is known to be "heritable". So if the "experts" don't have the answers I sure don't. I will just try to use common sense and hope it works till somebody comes up with a better answer.


----------



## Debles

My daughter, who is having the baby in Denver, is also a geneticist. I'll ask her what she knows about this.


----------



## Pointgold

AmbikaGR said:


> I will give a slightly different slant to some of the answers given so far. A little over a year ago I lost a 15 month old pup of my breeding - I have this pup's dam and grand dam still - to a form of luekemia. I was/am concerned about the heritability of this. I asked Dr Modiano at the U of Colorado his opinion on this and below is a part of his reply
> 
> As far as the genetics, we don't know the precise answer, but probably
> not. Risk is what it is, and whether it manifests young or old is a
> matter of how the inherent risk factors that exist interact with each
> other and the environment, so there is a bit of randomness to it all.
> Some very specific types of cancer in people, and one type of cancer in
> dogs are known to be "heritable" in the sense that the risk is
> associated with mutation of a single gene (and the gene is different
> for each cancer syndrome recognized).
> 
> I found it very interesting that the experts - got basically the same reponse from a service dog organization geneticist - that they only have proof that on type of cancer in dogs is known to be "heritable". So if the "experts" don't have the answers I sure don't. I will just try to use common sense and hope it works till somebody comes up with a better answer.


 

I have heard this as well, Hank. And like you, I try to use common sense and for me that means minimizing risk to the best of my ability - studying pedigrees and longevity and avoiding those with a high percentage of cancers and early mortality, feeding quality food, not overvaccinating, and avoiding known environmental factors as much as possible.


----------



## GoldenJoyx'stwo

You asked for Jag's photo. It's copyrighted, but you can find Jag's photo on this page. He was beautiful. I didn't know him or his owner, but I will never forget Jag...

http://www.goldenrescuesouthflorida.com/rainbow_goldens.htm


----------



## Debles

Thanks Kimm. He was very beautiful. So very sad.


----------



## GoldenSmile

What a beautiful dog... what a shame.


----------



## Ljilly28

I read the official ruling, and I am amazed they are allowed to use a child's name so obviously without sanction.


----------



## Debles

It's disgusting! That pic of Jag is just heartbreaking when you know what happened to him.


----------



## MaddieMagoo

Ok? I cant get to the website to find Jag's story?...whats up with that?


----------



## MaddieMagoo

OH gosh...I found another story explaining EVERYTHING..poor dog..so cruel people. Are they out there showing today?


----------



## Ljilly28

This dog they own is a knock-out. http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=278541


----------



## Ash

Ljilly28 said:


> This dog they own is a knock-out. http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=278541


Wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.


----------



## Ljilly28

Ash said:


> Wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.


I just cant figure out how they blatantly keep buying and selling mainstream dogs when officially punished.


----------



## Ljilly28

Debles said:


> It's disgusting! That pic of Jag is just heartbreaking when you know what happened to him.


I keep seeing a litter ad for the Snyders' new puppies under the name Kyle. is the AKC okay with this?
Am. Ch. Redog's Style'N Maui Jim	
JBG's Bubble Yum


----------



## historicprim

Ljilly28 said:


> I keep seeing a litter ad for the Snyders' new puppies under the name Kyle. How do they get away with this?
> Am. Ch. Redog's Style'N Maui Jim
> JBG's Bubble Yum


 

I searched and couldnt find anything, where is the litter listing? Crazy world we live in..


----------



## Ljilly28

I pmed you a couple listings


----------



## SunGold

Ljilly28 said:


> I keep seeing a litter ad for the Snyders' new puppies under the name Kyle. is the AKC okay with this?
> Am. Ch. Redog's Style'N Maui Jim
> JBG's Bubble Yum


I saw that too and wondered what was going on....


----------



## goldengirls550

Ljilly28 said:


> I keep seeing a litter ad for the Snyders' new puppies under the name Kyle. is the AKC okay with this?
> Am. Ch. Redog's Style'N Maui Jim
> JBG's Bubble Yum


If I remember correctly, this dog won BB and G4 Sunday in Wichita Falls over the weekend. I have just found this story and the entire thing makes me sick. It has really upset and angered me.


----------



## Ljilly28

Saw a rememberence for Jag in three different places today, asking people to think of him - thought I'd pass on how hurt, furious, and sad people are, still.


----------



## goldengirls550

Personally, forgetting the issues going on, I don't even like Jimmy... Not my type at all.


----------



## Pointgold

Everyone knows that the Snyder's youngsters are doing nothing more than taking the dogs into the ring. Audra grooms them (albeit just off the show grounds), and she and Denny are responsible for transportation, care (I say that grudgingly) and training. It's a blatant exploitation of those children and a means to circumvent the AKC suspension. It never ceases to amaze me what some people will do in the name of winning - why _any_one would trust their dog to their "care" is beyond me.


----------



## DCPakaMOM

Isn't the Snyder's son a minor? How can a minor breed dogs and have a puppy contract as a minor? hmmm Making your own son a pawn - I cannot imagine. I can't imagine even hiring them, not only in light of the Jag tragedy, but they are suspended! Isn't that sort of like laughing in the face of AKC? 

I cannot imagine trying to cover up all that they did. Just thinking about it brings up the tears and heartache I felt reading all the details.


----------



## Bogey's Mom

You know, some people would consider this a violation of child labor laws.


----------



## Pointgold

The kids also show in Juniors. As I understand the rules, though, as they are minors, and their parents are their legal guardians and immediate family members, living in the same residence, them being suspended would preclude the children from having AKC privledges. I believe this has been brought to the attention of the AKC, but who knows if they will pursue it.


----------



## Ljilly28

They seem to sell puppies oversees, with a few other breeders working with them. For example, Zhenyu Zhang in China has two youngsters.http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=333672


----------



## gabbys mom

Bogey's Mom said:


> You know, some people would consider this a violation of child labor laws.


I somehow doubt it...In most states there are exceptions for kids over a certain age working in agriculture-related stuff. Legally, dog shows/breeding/etc tends to fit under the agriculture label better than anything else.

Also, many states have kid labor laws that allow the kid to "work" during certain hours - after 3pm weekdays and on weekends. They just have to work less than adults typically. 

So I doubt it is anything to do with child labor laws.


----------



## damita

OOOPPSSS - meant to post this elsewhere!


----------



## JeanninePC99

I'm new to the board and have spent a good amount of time poking around and just taking things in.

I have to admit that my opinion of the registries has been tainted over the years by various stories and what's going on here just adds to the picture I have. These handlers are so incompetent as to do something that even the novice with just a wee bit of common sense wouldn't do, but because they've handled some winners, they get a pass?


----------



## Pointgold

JeanninePC99 said:


> I'm new to the board and have spent a good amount of time poking around and just taking things in.
> 
> I have to admit that my opinion of the registries has been tainted over the years by various stories and what's going on here just adds to the picture I have. These handlers are so incompetent as to do something that even the novice with just a wee bit of common sense wouldn't do, but because they've handled some winners, they get a pass?


 
They don't get a pass. Snyder's are not AKC registered handlers, nor do they belong to either PHA or DHG. They are apparently just this side of being in violation of the court order and the AKC ruling. They are being watched closely, though.

For me, the bigger issue is the clients that put up with this, and in fact, subsidize it.


----------



## JeanninePC99

I meant that they get a pass in that dogs they work with are being shown by their son while they wait off "grounds". Perhaps I have misunderstood what has been posted, though.


----------



## Ljilly28

Does the AKC have legal power?


----------



## AmbikaGR

Ljilly28 said:


> Does the AKC have legal power?


I can not think of anything they would have "legal power" over as in like the police. But They can of course sue anyone they feel like like any other person/organization.


----------



## mylissyk

The only power they have is to ban the handlers, or disallow a person to compete in AKC events. AKC should not be allowing the Snyder's children to compete.


----------

