# Comparison of American Venues?



## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

So, we don't seem to have much out here 'cept AKC a few times a year and some different agility groups such as NADAC. But for all you people who have UKC, APDT, and others I was curious about the differences/similarities between the different venues. Are some more competitive and/or difficult than others or are they about the same?


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I've never done UKC obedience, but I've always heard it is more of a laid back attitude, not as competitive. And that UKC utility is really hard, much harder than AKC.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

I love UKC . It is different that you can show in Novice C forever.. While in Open and while in Utility. Novice the recall is over the high jump with two stewards standing on the sides. Drop on recall you can use both hand a verbal for a drop and then when the dog is down a steward walks from one end to the other and then you can call. There is also a steward walking the same heeling pattern but opposite directions while you are... And last the down is an honor while the next dog does heeling and 8.It is great to proof for AKC and prevents becoming ring wise..


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I've done AKC, UKC and ASCA obedience and AKC, ASCA and NADAC agility.

Exercise-wise, AKC and ASCA are the same. Atmosphere-wise, some of the ASCA shows I've been to have felt a bit more laid back, but not all of them. UKC has definitely been more laid back. Most every UKC show I've done has had stewards who were completely inexperienced (I had to tell them how to set the broad jump) and relatively new judges. Hey, you gotta learn sometime, so not faulting them in any way -- it's just different from what I see at AKC shows. The one really experienced UKC judge that I showed under... I found her to have a VERY sharp pencil.

As for the UKC exercises, I like the differences at least in Nov and Open. The Utility looks really fun. I think the reason people say it's so hard is b/c the go-out/glove exercise is very different. You start like a go out, but then re-direct to a glove. (Or something like that -- been a while since I've watched it. We only have one local UKC trial a year here in the greater LA area.)

As for agility -- locally we have AKC, ASCA, NADAC, USDAA and CPE. The USDAA people are by far the most competitive and IMO, can be agility snobs. I refuse to do USDAA for that reason and b/c of the extreme jump heights. My Quiz who does 20" in AKC would have to do 26" in USDAA or I could do 22" preferred. Crazy.

AKC is next on my list. Also hard core and a fair amount of snobby/hard core people. (Not saying they're ALL like that.... but sadly, a lot kind of are.) As a plus, they offer the most events, and I could easily show every weekend w/in a 2 hour drive if I wanted to. (And could afford to -- entries are expensive. I just paid $75 for a weekend of 4 runs.)

ASCA and NADAC seem to have the nicest competitors, in my experience. Friendlier... more supportive. Maybe it's because they're only paying $8-10 a run vs. $20 at AKC, so if something doesn't go right, they havne't lost as much $, so they can be less nasty about it? I dunno... No table in ASCA or NADAC courses.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I can only speak to obedience, conformation, and rally.
In obedience, I find the exhibitors *in general* to be more friendly, less competitive, and the atmosphere more laid back. The scoring, in this area, seems to be pretty consistent across the two venues; Tito scores about the same in each. I love showing in UKC obedience. I think Utility isn't harder in UKC (I may eat those words at some point), it's just different. If you're field training, UKC should actually be easier. The second glove exercise in UKC is nothing more than casting to the right, left, or back. Simple field exercise. There's no moving stand in UKC Utility, which for a lot of goldens is the hardest exercise there is (wiggle butt!).
As far as conformation, they are a WORLD apart. At the risk of offending some people, it's pretty easy to get a UKC CH on your dog. Most people who plan to show in AKC breed use UKC breed just as fun matches and for ring practice, and I VERY highly recommend it as such. Again, the shows are very laid back, generally you encounter nice people, the entries are quite small, and you can CH in a weekend of shows. There are no professional handlers allowed, and grooming is minimal. 
The downside of showing in UKC conformation is that the judges are all-breed judges, and some of them do reward flash rather than correctness. After all, it's pretty hard to know the standard of over 150 breeds.
In rally they are almost identical, there are a few different signs and a few different rules, but they are pretty similar.
Of course, UKC has DOCK DIVING and AKC doesn't!!!!!!

edit....the UKC Grand Championship is quite a bit harder to get than the UKC Championship, in breed.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

APDT is a lot of fun, and a much different "vibe" than AKC. Mostly, it is the domain of positive training oriented people, like pet dog instructors who have certifications like CPDT and ABCDT. The Rally courses are longer and more difficult, but people are allowed to reward with actual treats in the ring during any stationary sit at the conclusion of a sign. I love it sometimes, and sometimes I admit I get a little bit bored bc it's not as challenging/rigorous as AKC Obedience.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I've never had the chance to see a UKC obedience show and always have trained for AKC shows. There is a show coming up in Ann Arbor (Northfield), MI next month that I'm hoping to sneak in to watch with my dog whom I'm sorta proofing for 'show noises'. 

Can I ask... 

How do the UKC novice exercises differ from the AKC? 

Are they in the same order (on leash heel, f8, stand, off leash heel, recall, group sits and downs after all run throughs) ? 

And they have novice A and novice B like in AKC? And if you are in novice B in the AKC, you would still show in A in the UKC? (if so, that would be great for refresher, as I haven't shown a dog in ten years...!)

When applying for a UKC registration - you just fill out the registration form and send it along with pictures (front, side, rear?) of your dog? And how much does it cost? How long does it take before you get your cert or whatever? <- Your experience. I know they have info on the UKC website...


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Megora said:


> Can I ask...
> 
> How do the UKC novice exercises differ from the AKC?
> 
> Are they in the same order (on leash heel, f8, stand, off leash heel, recall, group sits and downs after all run throughs) ?


I think this answers that question



Titan1 said:


> I love UKC . It is different that you can show in Novice C forever.. While in Open and while in Utility. Novice the recall is over the high jump with two stewards standing on the sides. Drop on recall you can use both hand a verbal for a drop and then when the dog is down a steward walks from one end to the other and then you can call. There is also a steward walking the same heeling pattern but opposite directions while you are... And last the down is an honor while the next dog does heeling and 8.It is great to proof for AKC and prevents becoming ring wise..


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

AmbikaGR said:


> I think this answers that question


OK... so I can't just hop over to the UKC to show until I've taught him the high jump. :uhoh:

- I'm currently teaching my dog to jump 'properly' (springing up from his hips and rear) over a thick branch propped on two paint cans (don't laugh at me because I'm cheap). This is high enough so he can do the jumps in the AKC Rally Novice events (something my instructor is trying to convince me and others to do before showing obedience for show ring proofing).

But the exercises follow the same order? 

When I was browsing the UKC website, I saw something about an 'honor dog' doing a down stay, and I think somebody mentioned that here in this thread. So the dogs essentially do two downs stays? Or do they just do group sits at the end?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

To answer one of your other questions....if you have a novice obedience title in AKC, you have to show in UKC Novice B.
If you have a novice obedience title in UKC, you can still show in Novice A in AKC. AKC doesn't recognize any value to UKC titles. 
For that reason, some people prefer to get the UKC title first.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Megora said:


> OK... so I can't just hop over to the UKC to show until I've taught him the high jump. :uhoh:
> 
> But the exercises follow the same order?
> 
> When I was browsing the UKC website, I saw something about an 'honor dog' doing a down stay, and I think somebody mentioned that here in this thread. So the dogs essentially do two downs stays? Or do they just do group sits at the end?


In novice they run pretty much the same. In the heeling you will have a steward waking from the other direction to pass by two times during the pattern.. Same pattern as AKC. Figure 8 is the same as AKC. Stand is the same.Heeling off leash same as 1st again steward passing by twice . Recall over the high jump. 
Your long down is in the ring out of the way of the heeling. You have a down stay the whole time they next handler and dog go through the pattern and figure 8. The only group exercise if the sit stay. Oh and if you get into a runoff it is at the same time. Both dogs enter the ring and the 1st dog to make a mistake loses.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Really great thread....

To the original question "It depends" if things are harder or not in different orgs....

An agility example; NADAC has faster course times, a bobble can cost some teams a Q just due to time. There are also more straight lines/less turns and an emphasis on distance. So that would be more difficult for people with slightly slower dogs to make time, it could be harder for someone wtih a faster dog without much distance skill to get through the course. 

Some of the agility orgs (CPE, USDAA) have more 'games' classes that aren't just a numbered course but have strategy portions. It's HARD to remember the rules and keep everything straight for the different games. But it's also a lot of fun and can give some teams an advantage. Once you learn the rules! 

Rally:
AKC and UKC are supposedly very similar....

APDT is longer courses, more "harder" signs earlier than seen in AKC. The food bowl exercise can be food or toys (just food in AKC). Yes you have food but NO luring is allowed, whereas in AKC you can use "invisible treats" and lure if you're so inclined. You can usually get more runs a day (4-6 trials held a weekend for APDT)...though AKC has started to do 4 a weekend but I've not seen a lot of that here.... So while entry prices are about the same, you get more runs for your day off of work, gas money, lunch money, etc..... which is nice.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Megora said:


> I've never had the chance to see a UKC obedience show and always have trained for AKC shows. There is a show coming up in Ann Arbor (Northfield), MI next month that I'm hoping to sneak in to watch with my dog whom I'm sorta proofing for 'show noises'.


I might be there!!!! I train at Northfield. I am considering trying Teddi in rally and saw there will be a UKC trial at "home". Not sure what weekend need to check and see what is going on. 

UKC is not about "speed" per se in agility. In fact "extreme speed" can be penalized. They want "handling". Dogs are penalized if they are not straight on or straight off an obstacle. Handlers can not let their hands cross over an obstacle with the down A frame being the ONLY exception. Lead outs are tricky as you can not "cross the plane of the jump", they have made some changes to their rules to alleviate some of the challenges between venues. They also approved running on AKC size equipment. A lot of UKC trials had TINY equipment. I remember an 8' teeter thinking Belle would not find the contacts. Judges can tell you in your course walk what you can and can not do. You are allowed to ask questions. 

AGI no weaves they do have a 'flower jump', a hula hoop tunnel, a pvc tube jump. Some other unique obstacles. In AGII you get the weaves again, handlers have to be 2' away from the weaves, and one "pause" obstacle, which can be a table, "the box" or "sit-jump-sit". You also get introduced to the sway bridge, hanging plank and crawl tunnel. AGIII has all the same equipment and you have to be 6' away from the weaves and pause obstacle. You can not compete in AGIII until you have your UACH. 

I primarily show AKC and enjoy it. Sure some of the people are WAY too competitive but I hang around with my friends, and have met a lot of fabulous people, dogs and seen some incredible handling. UKC is much more laid back and you can have two trials a day so you can title in a weekend. You can title in AGI an AGII under one judge. AGIII that changes. I won't ever get my AGIII as Belle could not do the distance work to the pause obstacles. It did not make sense to her. Distance at the weaves (moving) was not a problem. 

If you want to see some pictures of UKC obstacles. Send me a PM with your email and I can send pictures. I don't want to post them as I "pirated" them (proofs) from the photographer website so I don't want to "publish" them. 

Ann


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