# Has anyone tried the Volhard Canine Personality Profile?



## tintallie (May 31, 2006)

I was looking at Jack and Wendy Volhard's website and I encountered their personality profile.

I hand scored Wiggles' score from the questions since the web version didn't work, and ended up with: 80% prey drive, 70% pack drive, 35% fight drive, 10% flight drive.

Wiggles doesn't start fights, but he will stand his ground and is always up for a chase which explains why it was so difficult to get him walk on a loose leash. Wiggles performs recall, sits, down, stays, etc really well, but the leash walking was the biggest struggle.

How do your dog's scores look?


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## JimS (Jan 2, 2007)

The Volhard disciples (not to mention Jack and Wendy) beat you over the head with the PAT and CPP at their camps. The first thing you're asked when beginning a training track is what are the dog's scores. Chase is 80, 70, 50, 10 (after camp, I think his flight may be a bit higher...I saw some evidence of avoidance occasionally that I hadn't encountered before)...although being a puppy, his score's aren't permanent. They really only stick when the dog reaches maturity.


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## Carsonsdaddy (Nov 1, 2006)

I just did it and Carson got:

Prey-45
Pack-65
Fight-20
Flight-10

Although he is only almost 8 months old so some of that may change. I have noticed he's less fearful lately.


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## Carsonsdaddy (Nov 1, 2006)

P.S. You can find it here: Volhard: Canine Personality Profile CPP


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## tintallie (May 31, 2006)

Wiggles is just over a year old, and he has changed quite a bit in terms of being able to calm down and be more focused. His prey drive is still high which is why we use the prong collar on a regular basis.

JimS, when do those 4 drive scores become more telling of the personality? Afyter one year? two years?

I wonder how conformation vs. field Golden Retrievers would score as well. All owners with fieldies....give the profile a try!


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I just tried it twice and it wont give me my score....*ugh*


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Liberty - the peace maker
Prey = 40
Pack = 75
Defense - Fight = 15
Defense - Flight = 5

Lexi - the queen alpha bitch
Prey = 35
Pack = 75
Defense - Fight = 10
Defense - Flight = 15


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## Griffyn'sMom (Mar 22, 2007)

This is interesting - though I don't totally understand it. Griff hasn't had a lot of contact with other dogs so some of the answers may be skewed. He is not quite 7 months - and I think the answers may change a bit with age and maturity.

*Your dog's drives*
*Prey = 25*
*Pack = 60*
*Defense - Fight = 30*
*Defense - Flight = 10*


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## Griffyn'sMom (Mar 22, 2007)

Maggies mom said:


> I just tried it twice and it wont give me my score....*ugh*


I think your pop-up blocker may be blocking it. ??


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## sashac (Mar 13, 2006)

Your dog's drives
Prey = 60
Pack = 40
Defense - Fight = 60
Defense - Flight = 30

Interesting - he definitely is a defensive dog and will fight rather than flee. His aggression is usually brought on by feelings of nervousness and fear (which to me is a lot more dangerous than dominant behavior) (not that a truly dominant dog needs to be aggressive to show his dominance!)

I didn't believe the Pack/Prey part at first; I thought Charlie was much more of a Prey dog. But, when I think about it, he definitely needs pack order to feel safe and comfortable (feeding into his defensive fight side) and generally follows me around everywhere. Same with other people he is familiar with. 

Very interesting - I'd never heard of this before.


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## sashac (Mar 13, 2006)

Whew!! just noticed everyone else's scores!! You'd never know I had a Golden!!! LOL!


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## JimS (Jan 2, 2007)

tintallie said:


> Wiggles is just over a year old, and he has changed quite a bit in terms of being able to calm down and be more focused. His prey drive is still high which is why we use the prong collar on a regular basis.
> 
> JimS, when do those 4 drive scores become more telling of the personality? Afyter one year? two years?
> 
> I wonder how conformation vs. field Golden Retrievers would score as well. All owners with fieldies....give the profile a try!


There's no right answer for that. Basically, when the dog matures. It could be eighteen months or four years. To correctly score it, you have to use untrained behaviors...which gets more difficult as the dog ages. For instance, Kali my Lab would love to counter surf...but she's been taught not to. She scores on that as if she hadn't been taught. 

At the same time, a puppy may not have had the opportunity to show certain behaviors since he has a limited set of experiences. 

A dog that's high in both prey and pack, and moderate to high in fight is considered a "Teacher's Pet". A dog that's high in flight is much harder to work with.

It's amazing how subtle switching drives can be. For instance, when a dog is on leash and barking at another dog, a simple left hand turn can move the dog from prey drive to defense and put a stop to the barking...at least temporarily. 

By the way, there's a yahoo group for the Volhard Method. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/VolhardTraining/join

It's not a very high volume list...but interesting stuff does come up regularly.


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## JimS (Jan 2, 2007)

Something I should have mentioned, the scores today are what you're working with. So even though there will be some change over time, a puppy's score is just as useful as a mature dogs.


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## tintallie (May 31, 2006)

What's interesting so far is that most of the goldens who we've scored so far are moderate to high pack drive, usually low flight and low fight drives which seems to match temperament in the breed standard.

I'd like to see if field dogs have higher prey drives or if it's mostly random. Wiggles is a conformation dog, but I think he is a hunter at heart.


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

So far I can't get a score. I have tried several times.


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## JimS (Jan 2, 2007)

tintallie said:


> What's interesting so far is that most of the goldens who we've scored so far are moderate to high pack drive, usually low flight and low fight drives which seems to match temperament in the breed standard.
> 
> I'd like to see if field dogs have higher prey drives or if it's mostly random. Wiggles is a conformation dog, but I think he is a hunter at heart.



The column I'd expect the most difference in is fight. I'm guessing field dogs are going to be a bit higher. Maybe I'm being optimistic, but I believe virtually all retrievers of any variety are going to have high prey drives.


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

Beau-Prey 45, pack 80, fight 10, flight 0
Emmy-Prey 70, pack 70, fight 10, flight 5


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## Nicole&Zack (Feb 27, 2007)

Zacks score:
* Prey = 40
Pack = 55
Defense - Fight = 20
Defense - Flight = 0*


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

Murphy's scores:

Prey: 75
Pack: 80
Defense/Fight: 55
Defense/Flight: 30

Sampson:

Prey: 65
Pack: 65
Defense/Fight: 45
Defense/Flight: 0

I think it is interesting but not sure what it all means. Murphy is about 2.5. Sampson we believe is about 2.


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## KatzNK9 (Feb 27, 2007)

Ozzy's scores:
*Prey = 45
Pack = 65
Defense - Fight = 35
Defense - Flight = 10*


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Here's Quiz:

Prey = 30
Pack = 55
Defense - Fight = 15
Defense - Flight = 0

Of course, you have to take this with a bit of a grain of salt, as the answers are based on each individual human's interpretation of the question! 

-Stephanie


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## hawtee (Nov 1, 2006)

Lilli
Prey 70
pack 50
fight 40
flight 10
Casey
Prey 60
pack 50
fight 10
flight 10
Interesting


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## Griffyn'sMom (Mar 22, 2007)

There were a couple of questions that I really couldn't answer because of lack of experience so I had to vote down the middle on those.


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## Mandyjac (Apr 5, 2007)

Maya is only 14 weeks, so some of these experiences are limited for her. Oh, she is bred for hunting and family.
70 Prey
60 Pack
40 Fight
15 Flight
P.S.--she was also the only female in a litter of 8...I wonder if that makes a difference?


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Robbie's scores

Prey = 10
Pack = 60
Defense - Fight = 20
Defense - Flight = 5

It's interesting, because I would answer the questions the same way for Lilah, so I have two dogs with very similar personalities.


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## Wilson's REAL Mom (Nov 10, 2006)

I think I need to look more into this method...they may be onto something here.

Wilson:
Prey 80
Pack 65
Fight 20
Flight 25


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## Wilson's REAL Mom (Nov 10, 2006)

gold4me said:


> So far I can't get a score. I have tried several times.


What browser are you using? I couldn't get a score using Mozzilla, but when I switched to IE, it worked. I hate IE, but sometimes it's the only thing that will work.


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## JimS (Jan 2, 2007)

Wilson's REAL Mom said:


> What browser are you using? I couldn't get a score using Mozzilla, but when I switched to IE, it worked. I hate IE, but sometimes it's the only thing that will work.


I've tried Netscape, Firefox and IE...it's never worked for me. The column's aren't that long...I just add them up.


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

I was using Mozzilla and I also tried Safari but neither one worked. I just added up the columns.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

35, 60, 10, 20


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

btw that was Starlite- I didn't bother for Keira bc she's so young, or for Rig since he's not a GR


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

It would be interesting to see how a dog's individual obedience/training level and lifestyle would affect how the owner would answer the questions.

Quiz and Starlite are VERY similar in numbers... and I think ACC and I raise our dogs in a similar manner. I don't doubt for a second that how I've raised my dog has influenced, at least to some degree, how his "drives" exhibit themselves on a regular basis.

A good handler can heavily influence any temperament test on a dog.

-S


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Here's Quiz:
> 
> Prey = 30
> Pack = 55
> ...


Here's Zoie, my Whippet:

Prey = 15
Pack = 35
Defense - Fight = 20
Defense - Flight = 0

For being such different breeds of dogs, their numbers are fairly similar. Just goes to show, IMO, it's more about HOW you live with the dogs. We can shape and mold "drives" in dogs. I had to build quite a bit of "drive" in Zoie for the competitive obedience work we do. 

C'mon Jenna -- let's see Rig!

-S


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

agree... my whippet scored the exact same as your Whippet

SL only got anything on flight bc he was a horrifically raised puppy before I got him, and was a basket case nobody could touch- I got him to be virtually normal in a few weeks...


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Sidney's score card:

Prey = 35
Pack = 50
Defense - Fight = 10
Defense - Flight = 5

Don't know exactly what it is I'm supposed to do with this information though. Maybe I should go back to the website to seek some enlightenment...


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

monomer said:


> Sidney's score card:
> 
> Prey = 35
> Pack = 50
> ...



I think it means you need to incorporate an e-collar into your training! :311taunt- 

Yes, ladies and gentlemen... THAT is the sound of me being a SMART ASS!

Thank you for playing. Please tip your wait staff!

-S


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

What level do you think I would have to put it on to make my whippet go outside in the rain?


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

Guess I have a 'Teacher's Pet?
Sadie is 65-65-45-20...
Haven't done Loocies yet....


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Wow Sadie is a prey driven girl, huh? I think my Kiki will have high prey drive, too.


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Wow Sadie is a prey driven girl, huh? I think my Kiki will have high prey drive, too.


You know, that's a kinda grey area....like, she'll destuff and dismember plush toys...a methodical surgically precise effort, no shaking 'killing' or pouncing.
Loocie routinely plays with, never harms, moles in the yard...Sadie won't have anything to do with 'em...but she'll stalk robins till dark. Plays well with big boy dogs, but wants to eat the neighbors three beagles. Lets Loocie hump her, but is obviously alpha and a resource guarder if its food....so some of the questions were difficult to answer.


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## Faith's mommy (Feb 26, 2007)

*Your dog's drivesPrey = 65
Pack = 70
Defense - Fight = 30
Defense - Flight = 40*


i also wonder - is there something on the website that explains the outcome?


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Thats one flaw in any type of test for dogs I think- they are very complex in many ways


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> What level do you think I would have to put it on to make my whippet go outside in the rain?


It works just like a remote. You'll have instant 100% compliance!

And don't worry... the vocalizations are normal. 

(I'm not blanket bashing e-collars... I swear! Go back and read all my related posts... I've said time and time again, if you can use one responsibly then good for you. I'm just feeling a bit sarcastic and punchy this morning!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Well, if that's the case, maybe I could have gotten one for my exhusband. As it is, I have just given up on men.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

PS you made me snort with laughter in a library


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Well, if that's the case, maybe I could have gotten one for my exhusband.


It would only destroy more brain cells, and quantities were limited in my ex.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> It would be interesting to see how a dog's individual obedience/training level and lifestyle would affect how the owner would answer the questions.
> 
> Quiz and Starlite are VERY similar in numbers... and I think ACC and I raise our dogs in a similar manner. I don't doubt for a second that how I've raised my dog has influenced, at least to some degree, how his "drives" exhibit themselves on a regular basis.
> 
> ...


I find this to be true, but I wonder what would happen if someone other than you or another good handler would effect the outcome if tested??? Any thoughts?


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

:jester: :jester: 



AquaClaraCanines said:


> PS you made me snort with laughter in a library


:jester: :jester:

Excellent! My work is done here.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Kimm said:


> I find this to be true, but I wonder what would happen if someone other than you or another good handler would effect the outcome if tested??? Any thoughts?


If it's an in-person, hands-on test (like the SAFER TEST by Emily Weiss or Sue Sternberg's temp. test) then ABSOLUTELY!

As for the Volhard test, I still think it's possible b/c we'll all have different ways of interpreting our dogs' behavior. What I think of for "my dog stands his ground" may be different than what you think, so we answer based on our interpretation of what we feel the dog is doing.

-Stephanie


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Yikes! What do the numbers mean?
Tucker
*Your dog's drivesPrey = 35*
*Pack = 65*
*Defense - Fight = 15*
*Defense - Flight = 10*


Shadow's score won't come up! Found it..
*Your dog's drivesPrey = 25
Pack = 65
Defense - Fight = 20
Defense - Flight = 5*





It was hard for me to answer the grooming question about standing still for Shadow. He had hip surgeries and tends to sit, but he doesn't mind being groomed. So, he does fidget. A few questions are a bit difficult to answer knowing there are other than the norm reasons for the behavior.


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## Anitalouisa (Mar 11, 2007)

Ellie at 15/16 weeks:

Prey = 40
Pack = 65
Defense - Fight = 20
Defense - Flight = 25

What do these mean?


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## robinsegg26 (Nov 14, 2006)

Coal is 
Prey = 30
Pack = 55
Defense - Fight = 15
Defense - Flight = 0

Casey is 
Prey = 60
Pack = 60
Defense - Fight = 45
Defense - Flight = 5

Chris
Prey = 40
Pack = 60
Defense - Fight = 35
Defense - Flight = 5


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## Carsonsdaddy (Nov 1, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Well, if that's the case, maybe I could have gotten one for my exhusband. As it is, I have just given up on men.


Well obviously....  (Where's Rick's rainbow smiley when I need it!)


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## robinsegg26 (Nov 14, 2006)

btw what do all of the numbers mean anyway???? :


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## Mandyjac (Apr 5, 2007)

I have no idea what to do with this information, and I find myself wondering if WE were to take this personality test, would our numbers match our dogs???
Do YOU act fearful in unfamiliar situation? .....sometimes....
Do YOU guard food or toys? ...always....Don't touch my plate, you have your own...


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Oh anyone who has ever tried to touch my laptop, my dog, or my beer knows- I am a very aggressive resource guarder


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## Goldndust (Jul 30, 2005)

I believe from reading the information listed, those scores are showing some of the area's that need to be worked on. Such as if one has a high prey drive score, it would be telling you to work this more to the pack drive where it should be. 

Certain numbers according to that test would say you have a perfect dog, needs very little training. A dog with a high prey drive will take alot more work, then a dog that doesn't have those high numbers in the prey drive. 

I also think some may have not done the test correctly, it is saying to something about a dog with little training for taking test. We all know a dog later with training will have totally different scores then earlier on.

The one that kinda gave me trouble was the one about bikes and squirrels. lol As a younger dog he wasn't excited by bikes, but a squirrel would get him going but they combines both of those so I couldn't really give an answer to that.

Not personally crazy over dog testing anyway, I feel that what you get, will not be what you have later. Things change completely once the dog goes under training. Although, I will say you will never take out that prey drive if a dog has it, training will just give you a means of controlling it. JMO

Anyway, incase I missed it. Here is where it explains the taking of the test.
Volhard: Canine Personality Profile -CPP


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## IvanD (Mar 25, 2007)

Prey = 55
Pack = 65
Defense - Fight = 20
Defense - Flight = 15

Dunno that much on whether its true or not as Micah's still a pup and never really played with other dogs...


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## winstonandmaizeesmommy (Feb 8, 2007)

Winston 3yrs 5 mos

Prey - 35
Pack - 65
Fight - 20
Flight - 5

Maizee 3 yrs 3 mos

Prey - 35
Pack -80
Defense - 50
Flight - 5


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Sorry for bumping an old thread but I thought this was interesting. Seems the majority of goldens have a higher pack than prey drive...

Here's Ranger's (approx 20 - 22 months)

Prey: 70
Pack: 55
Fight: 30
Flight: 0

Reading bits and pieces on tips to train depending on prey drive is neat. Like, 

" Pack - less than sixty. Start praying. Felix probably does not care whether he is with you or not. He likes to do his own thing and is not easily motivated. Your only hope is to rely on Prey drive in training. Usually breed specific for dogs bred to work independently of man."

and 

"Prey - more than sixty. Your dog will respond well to use of treats or a toy during the teaching phase. May need a firm hand, depending on strength of Defense drive (fight), to suppress Prey drive when in high gear, such as when chasing a cat or spotting a squirrel."

adds to this: 

" High prey, low pack, low defense – this dog will give the appearance of having an extremely short attention span, but is perfectly capable of concentrating on what he finds interesting. Training will require the channeling of his energy to get him to do what you want. You will need lots of patience because the dog will have to be taught mainly through prey drive."

No wonder it took me awhile to figure out to bring out the best in Ranger...and why he doesn't fit into the "cookie-cutter" obedience classes around here.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

Brooks
Prey 55
Pack 40
Fight 40 
Flight 15
So his Prey being higher than his pack is the reason he is more inclined to want to sniff than to listen


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

Max
prey 35 - now it says he is not food motivated but he definitely is!!

pack 75 - seems to be a good thing

fight 15 - um, that should be a 0

flight 20 - what is flight?

I only saw the writing on the first two.

He sniffs all the time but I don't see how that is prey related as he will sniff and lick a gerbil without an interest in harming it at all?


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

This is fun, I wished I had found it earlier. Here are Ike's scores:

Prey: 46
Pack: 73
Fight: 38
Flight: 25

Momtomax, Flight would the response to a fearful situation, would he run away from it?

I'm a little surprised by Ike's higher 'fight' score. He's never started a fight but he has been bitten. He got away from the biting dog as quickly as he could. I guess he has traits that would cause him to stand his ground in some situations...though he didn't the one time he was bitten.

As for Prey drive. Sniffing and licking a pet gerbil is very different than how he'd react in nature to a rodent running by. Ike loves my daughter's cats, but he will go after a cat if it comes in our yard. I had bunnies years ago, Sam loved them...but he chased squirrels and tried to catch birds. It's the 'instinct' when outdoors, I think they are referring to.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Ranger's prey instinct is so high it kicks in indoors too. Which is why I don't think I'd ever feel comfortable with him being around a cat. He has met them before and been fine...and then he tried to go after one once when it did a funny little hop. 

It's funny he has NO flight whatsoever. If he's scared, he stops dead, looks at whatever is "scaring" him, then marches up to it. Like the first time he went into the river; he stared at the water for a few minutes, then started shaking (I thought he was super scared or convulsing but it turned out he was just working up his nerve) and then jumped in! 

It does get him into trouble at times, though. Like when the pitbulls attacked our fence...Ranger didn't hesitate and ran over and started defending his yard, his friend, his house. Meanwhile, Ranger's buddy ran into the house terrified. Even when I called Ranger off, he just went and sat by a tree ten feet away...staring directly into the male pitbull's eyes, further spurring the pittie on. 

I'm happy Ranger's pack drive is higher. I went through the questions and I definitely would have answered differently if I'd taken this the first few months I'd gotten him. So we have improvement!


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

This is interesting. I do have an issue with a couple of the questions, though. Like #31 - "Dislikes being groomed or petted." That's apples and oranges as far as Riley is concerned. You could pet him all day long - nothing he'd like more. But he gets tired of being brushed very quickly.
At least there was another question (or two?) specifically about grooming, so I hope it balances out.

Riley's score:
Prey - 33
Pack - 38
Fight - 20 (Fight? Ha! Yeah, not Riley!)
Flight - 35

Gunner's score:
Prey - 55
Pack - 50
Fight - 53
Flight - 20

Gee, they aren't like night and day at ALL, are they? :


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

I haven't found these things to be very helpful and sometimes result in people believing silly things.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

I think it's like any thing and needs to be taken with a grain of salt. It's like doing biorhythms and reading those "what does your name mean" astrology things, etc. Some of it might be spot on, some of it is way out there. It might give good or new ideas but it isn't the be-all, end-all of training. 

I found some of it quite applicable to Ranger and why we had a tough time at the start. Will I immediately sign up for their training camps and adhere to it one hundred percent? Nope. But I still find it interesting.


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## Mms (Dec 13, 2009)

Prey-50
Pack-65
Fight-20
Flight-35

Fits Gracie pretty well, being the friendly submissive thing she is.


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