# Honor GR's in NC



## chloesmomMI (May 4, 2013)

A friend in the Charlotte area is looking for a puppy and is considering Honor Golden Retrievers. I looked at their website and it really is loaded with information but there's no info on clearances for any dogs, nor are any dogs individually listed at all. I've also learned that they produced a Presidential puppy but that was a long time ago.

Does anyone have experience with Honor and what would you say about them? Thanks!


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Proceed with caution.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Most of their dogs are on k9data, so you can look them up pretty easily. I don't know them, but I'm on the west coast and don't show back east. I'm not sure why Prism would say go with caution. 

Check the usual health clearances, hips, elbows, eyes and heart on the parents.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

There has been a good bit of controversy on multiple aliases, a long period of time puppies were registered with CKC (continental not Canadian) or one of the fly by night registries, and many accusations of substituted dogs in many areas over the last 15 years or so. I just would watch every p and q and be very cautious. Back in the old days, I believe they were a very good kennel. But if you notice, all the Ch's are Int. CHs these days.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Chien D'Or said it all for me on one of their dogs. I had a hard time figuring out who the owners and breeders were of their dogs. Their paperwork on k9data didn't make sense always. Kind of odd to see how they were set up. They are also marketing English cream goldens. But most of their stock is only one or two generations away from a reliable breeder.

In my opinion I would not choose this breeder. I want to have a straightforward relationship with a breeder, not a confusing one.


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## Smarkle (Aug 7, 2015)

I had originally looked at this breeder. They claim their dogs live an average of 15 years, and after just losing my beloved Scarlett at the age of 11, I would have given anything for four more years with her. Then I got their paperwork and although the website states pet puppy prices start at $2000, the paperwork states prices start at $3000-$4000. I looked up each of their dogs longevity pedigrees, and there were many that did not live 15 years. After reading this post, I learned that international championships can practically be bought without real competition....too many red flags for me. So, after looking on here, I found Dichi Goldens. I am very happy with that choice so far. New fur baby coming home as soon as November.


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## Minion (Jun 20, 2015)

I have known the family associated with Honor's Golden long before we had our first golden. They are a hard working, well informed breeders. Anne Chase has been in dogs her entire life. They moved to NC before Paige had her first son who enters college this fall. A number of years ago they purchased a dog named Sven which one would call an English Creme in hopes of better health which they have achieved. We purchased our first Golden from them many years and he was my husbands heart dog. Soon after we were fortunate enough to own 2 Sven daughters. Both of them have exceptional health and temperaments. Honor's at this time is focused on service dogs for PTSD among other needs. We have remained very close and a veterinarian that does health clearances for them I worked with for 7 years. Their website is not kept up to date, I despise websites for the most part. They are very misleading. Paige and her mother also hold a health clinic in there home annually. As for the AKC vs Int matters not. It's what they do for others does. Yes, I am an AKC Breeder Of Merit but that is a very tiny piece of what we should do with the breed. I highly recommend them. Unfortunately several years back someone in NC did use the Honors name on their dogs I imagine for looks. Actually, they used the Honor name and myself as breeder.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Minion said:


> Iseveral years back someone in NC did use the Honors name on their dogs I imagine for looks. Actually, they used the Honor name and myself as breeder.


What? The owner of the bitch is the owner of the litter. There's no stopping someone from using a kennel name unless it is registered w AKC but a random person can't just 'use' a name on breeder on a dog/bitch/puppy.


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## Minion (Jun 20, 2015)

Yes they can and did. It was a dog. About the same time they owned a bitch and on k9data had myself listed as breeder. That's been several years ago and those dogs info has been locked by the moderator. Honor's website at one time had a comment as to their name being used as the prefix by someone else.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I thought you meant REALLY used it. k9data is user input and anyone can put anything on it. AKC is a different thing entirely. 

Assuming the Honors prefix is legit, the only locked Honors dogs have the same breeder they did to start with, though it has been removed once, it was put back ( with a Mrs at the front of the name) by Leslie so is what is actually on the registration paperwork. The Winklers are mixed up in these dogs too, my goodness, the Statesville area is full of intrigue and deception, eh?


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I looked at Honors Goldens the year I got my now 13 year old Finn. The reason I decided no was they were very clear they did not want their pups climbing stairs whatsoever, and I didnt feel I could honorably agree to that. They did/do have some beautiful dogs, but the contract wasnt for me.


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## Goldngirl01 (Oct 17, 2013)

Research their reputation from GRCA...a LONG list of issues from the past!!


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## PNWmom (Oct 7, 2015)

*please elaborate*

Can you please elaborate? I do not have the ability to search GRCA's website. I understand hesitancy to discuss breeders outright, but vague warnings are hard to follow up on. Honor's non-profit seems to be above-board, she has current successful service and therapy dogs. However she is not listed as a referred/ preferred breeder on Tarheel Kennel club's website. Anyone want to give more specific information?


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

There will always be things that people know yet are not willing to state- you have a ton of good breeders in WA, so I assume there's no danger you're going to NC to get a puppy, and the most I am willing to say I have already said earlier in the thread. 
However I think when you have reputable breeders saying there is GRCA history of issues, and there are issues of aliases, etc, you probably should go with the thought that where there is smoke there is fire.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

PNWmom said:


> Can you please elaborate?.... Anyone want to give more specific information?


I think that this thread has given pretty good detail. Why are you so set on finding more specific info on a breeder that multiple people have not recommended? You'd be wise to spend more time researching and double checking the facts on the breeders that HAVE been recommended.


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## PNWmom (Oct 7, 2015)

*honor goldens and breeders in WA - reply*

To answer questions - :

"you have a ton of good breeders in WA" - perhaps, but _none of them will return my phone calls or emails _despite my best efforts at making personal, informed contact with a few select breeders and the regional breeders referral contact. I also contacted two out-of-area breeders recommended by others on this list, and again, no return communication. I can only do so much, and it seems the demand for Goldens is so great that breeders are either too busy or simply have too many people contacting them to return phone calls or emails - I don't know. But it is frustrating. And don't tell me to read that puppy buyer etiquette article. I did a long time ago, and since a close family member has been a longtime breeder of another dog breed, I'm not a puppy-buyer newbie.

next: " Why are you so set on finding more specific info on a breeder that multiple people have not recommended" I have seen two, vague, unsubstantiated comments and I was asking for more information. I am asking because so few breeders seem interested in therapy dog/ service dogs, and Honor is. Honor also clearly has successful service dogs currently in service, so there's that. I have a specific purpose, and going with any given "good breeder" doesn't mean that will match my needs. A great breeder with hunting lines isn't a match. Is that clearer? I do know about fraud committed by someone else using Honor's kennel name. That my friends, could happen to any reputable breeder, and is not necessarily a reflection on the breeder fraud was committed against. I am trying my best to see if there is anything else, but I don't see any direct comment, nor has anyone PM'd me. So how can I, as an interested intelligent person, able to take seriously these comments made by strangers on the internet?

I also contacted a representative of Tarheel Kennel Club but also got no information and a comment that she "didn't know what she (Honor) was doing." I seriously doubt that a statewide kennel club would have no knowledge of any breeder, reputable or not, operating in their state. Again, simple unwillingness to communicate I guess. If there were problems, the kennel club rep should have said so in the interest of promoting responsible breeding. 

So - just looking for a little help here folks. It's hard enough to find a solid reputable breeder.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

PNWmom said:


> To answer questions - :
> 
> I also contacted a representative of Tarheel Kennel Club but also got no information and a comment that she "didn't know what she (Honor) was doing." I seriously doubt that a statewide kennel club would have no knowledge of any breeder, reputable or not, operating in their state. Again, simple unwillingness to communicate I guess. If there were problems, the kennel club rep should have said so in the interest of promoting responsible breeding.


In this litigious society that we live in today, one must tread carefully--you can be correct in your statements (fact based) & still find yourself in a drawn out & costly law suit. I'm sorry, but if the kennel club has nothing to say about a breeder speaks VOLUMES to me. Any breeder can say they produce service dogs & there are a number of "service" organizations that say they produce service dogs as there is no standard or enforcement. I know I fostered 2 feral pups from one breeder who claimed she was producing diabetic alert goldens--couldn't be further from reality. I know I want a breeder that is active in a GR club & is out competing so there is reduced risk of kennel blindness, also, I want evidence of endorsement outside of what the breeder themselves is out marketing themselves.

Personally, for the specific purpose you are looking for, you need to get out to shows & events & watch dogs in action & then track back to where they come from for the dogs you like & speak to their owners/breeders. Join your local club & become a familiar face.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

On the fraud- it was apparently someone posting on k9data a dog/litter that they gave the Honor kennel name. That CAN happen to anyone- k9data is user input data. The information on the dogs involved was not falsified with the AKC, just on k9data.


I think when you have people saying 'use caution' and you have a major regional club unwilling to give you a thumbs up, you should probably consider that, even if you never know what events made these people/entities remark in this way. 
I also think that when you see advertisements for therapy/service dogs, and not for a well-rounded breeding program that has produced same, you should probably consider that it is just one more way to sell puppies.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Try to contact a few really nice stud dog owners, and a few approachable bitch owners in WA in a low key way to network about smaller breedings. Say you know they might not have a litter, but you would be pleased for a referral. Even here in Maine I know of a few genuinely kind dogs and helpful owners who would likely assist you. I think Jovi is such a wonderful golden. If I lived in WA, I might try to find out if he has litters planned. I live across the country, so I cant be especially useful, but I have had luck using that basic model of low key approaches to dogs I genuinely like.

Jovi - Onyx Farms


Goldtales Golden Retrievers

SweetGold Retrievers

I like the dogs owned by this breeder a whole lot.

Kym & Rich Anton
Seattle, WA USA 98146 
[email protected]
home.comcast.net/~sweetgold/ 
(206) 246-4030


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## Minion (Jun 20, 2015)

I belonged to my local golden specialty club. There is a breeder referral person but only for litter info submitted in hard copy if pennhip or from OFA. Yes, we need to keep health checks current but example, if your eye exam is more than 12 mo past date than litter will not be accepted. I used to send people to these clubs for help in their search but were dead ends for them. The Parent Club does not have a membership list on their website , even worse if you contact them they will not tell you if they are or if they have had an issue with someone. Contact a local obedience club, all breed club. Better yet, go to infodog.com. Go to show info, look at past entry's at a club near you. The addresses and all are listed. Take you a bit to get through the website but its user friendly. There is always akc.org. Classifieds. Breeders/ listings are listed as Breeders Of Merit first then on down the line. I hope this is helpful. Alot of comments on this forum are made by some whose agenda has nothing to do with the subject. A lot can be mis understood in text.


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## PNWmom (Oct 7, 2015)

*Wcc*



SheetsSM said:


> In this litigious society that we live in today, one must tread carefully--you can be correct in your statements (fact based) & still find yourself in a drawn out & costly law suit. I'm sorry, but if the kennel club has nothing to say about a breeder speaks VOLUMES to me.


Yes, but you CAN make statements of your opinion. And you CAN cite personal experience. I see none of that. Not one person has said "I had a dog from X and I had Y problems." or anything along those lines.



> Any breeder can say they produce service dogs & there are a number of "service" organizations that say they produce service dogs as there is no standard or enforcement. I know I fostered 2 feral pups from one breeder who claimed she was producing diabetic alert goldens--couldn't be further from reality. I know I want a breeder that is active in a GR club & is out competing so there is reduced risk of kennel blindness, also, I want evidence of endorsement outside of what the breeder themselves is out marketing themselves.


I don't think WCC (Warrior Canine Connection) is a fly-by-night organization. https://www.facebook.com/WCCs-Cavit-623025301068522/ is one example of an Honor dog graduating from there. They also have one who is a therapy dog at Sandy Hook: https://www.facebook.com/NewtownStrongTherapyDogs. Again, probably not made up.



> Personally, for the specific purpose you are looking for, you need to get out to shows & events & watch dogs in action & then track back to where they come from for the dogs you like & speak to their owners/breeders. Join your local club & become a familiar face.


Yes, I am working on that. Not everyone like potential puppy owners with a thousand questions bothering them at a dog show however, and many are pressed for time. Even if you ask them when wold be a good time to chat, half of them are professional handlers and can't tell you much beyond the kennel name, and half are overwhelmed and short on time. I have spent a lot of years ringside. Sometimes it works out, and sometimes it doesn't.


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## PNWmom (Oct 7, 2015)

[quote} I think when you have people saying 'use caution' and you have a major regional club unwilling to give you a thumbs up, you should probably consider that, even if you never know what events made these people/entities remark in this way. [/QUOTE]

Sorry, no. I don't assume anything. I have seen the dog world in action long enough to know that rumors, social blacklisting, and shunning do happen. So I am trying to do due diligence, which also does mean being skeptical of both sides until I see some actual evidence. 



> I also think that when you see advertisements for therapy/service dogs, and not for a well-rounded breeding program that has produced same, you should probably consider that it is just one more way to sell puppies.


Just for the record, I did not see an "advertisement". I was looking for quite a while before I came across them. No advertising on their part. I wonder though if you would have the same criticism for breeders that focus on field types.


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## PNWmom (Oct 7, 2015)

*thank you*

snipped quote:


Ljilly28 said:


> Try to contact a few really nice stud dog owners, and a few approachable bitch owners in WA in a low key way to network about smaller breedings.
> Goldtales Golden Retrievers
> 
> SweetGold Retrievers
> ...


Thank you very much for the suggestions. I will look into them further.


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## Snoop Bobb (Aug 11, 2011)

I'm a fellow Pacific Northwesterner who was likewise doing some due diligence about a breeder in North Carolina. It has been three years since this thread -- so, just curious, how did things shake out for you?

I'm neither a breeder nor meaningfully involved in the Pacific Northwest golden retriever community. But, my impression is that the golden retriever community is just that - a pretty small community. My impression is that the vast majority of local breeders have small, "old-school," in-home operations and thus simply don't have the human resources to respond to every inquiry. So, I wouldn't take it personally that folks were slow to respond. We've been fortunate to know two people who have been very active in the golden retriever community for several years. So, when we've looked for golden retriever pups, we've reached out to our friends, they've told us which local reputable breeders are expecting litters during our desired timeline, and they've allowed / encouraged us to "drop their names" to help enhance our chances of getting a response and thus getting on the puppy list. If we didn't have that kind of connection, based on my subsequent experience, I'd recommend just visiting local golden retriever events, introducing yourself to ("networking with...") the participants, and letting them know that you're interested in a pup. In my experience, the folks who represent the local golden retriever community at those events are VERY, VERY friendly and approachable.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

PNWmom said:


> [quote} I was looking for quite a while before I came across them. No advertising on their part. I wonder though if you would have the same criticism for breeders that focus on field types.


Probably not,
the successful focus on a field type is easily verified- whereas SD is not. And there are far more washouts in a SD capacity.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Prism Goldens said:


> Probably not,
> the successful focus on a field type is easily verified- whereas SD is not. And there are far more washouts in a SD capacity.


Field dogs records in hunt tests and field trials are easily verified on www.enryexpress.com You can search by dog (using AKC registration # that can be found on k9data), owner, or handler. You can see the amount of entries at an event and who the judges were. It’s very easy to do. I suggest it to anyone interested in hiring a professional trainer or looking at a particular stud dog or breeder.

The same can be said for show dogs right? Can’t we look at say Onofrio or Baray, and see the dogs entered and how they did? You can look at the entries and judges? It seems like a lot of work, but it is possible isn’t it?


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Alaska7133 said:


> Field dogs records in hunt tests and field trials are easily verified on www.enryexpress.com You can search by dog (using AKC registration # that can be found on k9data), owner, or handler. You can see the amount of entries at an event and who the judges were. It’s very easy to do. I suggest it to anyone interested in hiring a professional trainer or looking at a particular stud dog or breeder.
> 
> The same can be said for show dogs right? Can’t we look at say Onofrio or Baray, and see the dogs entered and how they did? You can look at the entries and judges? It seems like a lot of work, but it is possible isn’t it?


I thought SD was being used to abbreviate Service Dog. Am I wrong?


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

service dog.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

ArchersMom said:


> I thought SD was being used to abbreviate Service Dog. Am I wrong?


 Sorry I thought SD meant show dog.... Sorry for the interruption.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

chloesmomMI said:


> A friend in the Charlotte area is looking for a puppy and is considering Honor Golden Retrievers. I looked at their website and it really is loaded with information but there's no info on clearances for any dogs, nor are any dogs individually listed at all. I've also learned that they produced a Presidential puppy but that was a long time ago.
> 
> Does anyone have experience with Honor and what would you say about them? Thanks!


Years ago ( as in decades) I looked at a puppy from them, and they told me no stairs for a year. I was like. . . thank you, bye.


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## efurman (Jul 12, 2021)

chloesmomMI said:


> A friend in the Charlotte area is looking for a puppy and is considering Honor Golden Retrievers. I looked at their website and it really is loaded with information but there's no info on clearances for any dogs, nor are any dogs individually listed at all. I've also learned that they produced a Presidential puppy but that was a long time ago.
> 
> Does anyone have experience with Honor and what would you say about them? Thanks!


I had an excellent experience with Honor Goldens. My precious, Molly, just passed last month at 15.5 years!


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