# In need of raw food advice



## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

I work at a 'pro raw' boarding kennel, and a lot of our guests are on raw, or have come to us for raw food, or came for boarding and decided to switch to raw when they learned about it, and quite often we do the switching for them when they come for boarding and go home on raw. In some cases they come with kibble and don't eat, so sometimes we'll get permission to switch to raw.

First we estimate about how much per day they'll be eating of the raw. Say one pound per day - then on the first day we feed half of that amount - half a pound (it's all ground) of raw, plus a few tablespoons of plain canned pumpkin, some slippery elm and supplements. No kibble.

That's fed in the evening, and if there is no messes in the pen in the morning, and no signs of issues when they go out to the bathroom, then they get the full amount of raw the next night plus the slippery elm and pumpkin/supplements. If that goes well we just go ahead with feeding them raw and supplements the next night.

We don't mix kibble with raw, or feed raw and kibble at the same time. It's not often we have a dog who does have problems switching like this either, usually they do very well. If you can't get slippery elm it's not critical, it just helps prevent upsets - but if she's eating a raw meal already then she's likely just fine. 

For puppies we usually feed two meals a day, breakfast and dinner, but once they're 4 months or so we feed once a day so they're out playing all day and not stuck inside (we keep dogs in for 4 hours after meals).

I would suggest 1.5 pounds a day for your pup, in two meals (depending on what you have for ground, you can feed 1 pound and .5 pound meals - doesn't have to be exact). For bones, the guideline is to feed non weight bearing (ribs, necks, spines etc.) bones that are BIGGER than your dog's muzzle with lots of meat. Or the odd knuckle bone, same thing. Go big so she has to chew and can't gulp (don't go for turkey or chicken necks). Turkey frames are great if you can get them. Marrow bones are hard and usually don't have much meat on them, and the marrow itself is high in fat so they can get the runs plus break teeth.

Hope that helps!

Lana


----------



## KRayl (Aug 22, 2008)

Thanks for all the helpful information, Lana! Since we fed her first meal of raw for breakfast, it sounds like we might not be able to try that approach. Otherwise, she'd have to skip lunch and dinner while we wait to see if she's going to handle it well? The bag of food we had was a lb bag so she had about a 1/2lb-ish this morning. 

I gave her pumpkin in a kong after she had breakfast so hopefully that'll help a bit with things....


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

I will give my experience on this. I am assuming from the photos in your signature that Avery is between 3 and 4 months old. At that age two meals a day are fine, and my pack get two meal a day till the day they go to the bridge. All my suggestions are based on this age.
Are you planning on a premade raw food or doing it yourself? For pups I really prefer the premade as you can get them with ground bone which is important for a growing pup's skeletal development. As for transition I would go down to two meals. Morning feed the "raw patty" and evening the kibble. If all is fine the next day I would go both meals raw. As for amounts I would go with 1 - 1 1/2 cup per meal (2 1/2 - 3 cups per day). 
At this age starting to feed a meaty bone meal is a good idea also. I like feeding chicken leg quarters and turkey wings at this age. With the turkey wings i remove the "thigh" portion as this bone can be a little tough for the young dog to handle. Once they get done teething (6 - 7 months) they seem to better handle the thigh portion and I add turky necks to the meaty bone rotation. 
With my pup who is now 10 months old she has gotten 1 1/2 cups patty mix each morning and the raw meatty bone meal at night. As I stated I rotate between chicken leg 1/4s, turkey wings and turkey necks. The sizes of these items can vary which is fine (any where from 3/4 lb to 1 1/2 lb). If the turkey wings are huge, over a pound, I separate the thigh portion from the wing segment and that is two meals. My adult dogs get fed basically the same except they get slightly less patty mix in the A.M. This meal is the easiest to cut/increase for each individual dog on an as needed basis (gain/lose weight) 
I hope this is not too confusing. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions about what I wrote.


----------



## KRayl (Aug 22, 2008)

Hi Hank, thanks for the tips! Avery is 6.5mos right now. This morning we fed her 1c. of premade raw which was ground chicken bones, chicken meat, chicken heart, and/or chicken liver. Would you suggest cutting her back to 2 meals starting today? My biggest concern was mixing the kibble and the raw in the same day bit it sounds like that shouldn't be a big problem. If we start to cut her back to 2 meals, beginning today, then that would space out the hours between each meal and from what I've read, if you do feed kibble and raw, you should wait several hours in between. Based on your experience, do you think this sounds like a good plan?

I wasn't sure if she was ready to cut back to 2 meals a day since she seems to be pretty hungry at lunch time and has yet to refuse food at that meal.


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

I see no reason not to start 2 meals/day today. I would just feed the raw tonight, but if it makes you feel more comfortable you could feed kibble tonight and then go all raw tomorrow. The mix you are using sounds fine to me with the bone in it. 
Many folks will go to two meals a day by 4 months, some wait longer. The key is that their insides are grown enough to hold the amount of food they need for growing. By 6 months that should noot be a problem at all. And you do not reduce the daily amount of food, just the amount at each meal. I do feel the amount recommended by your vet is on the high side but dogs like people all have different metabolisms. And remember you have a Golden. You could probably feed 5 cups two times a day and Avery will still act hungry when it is time for the next meal. It is VERY easy to give in to those beautiful brown eyes but don't. Just check him on a regular basis for weight and adjust if needed. I feed roughly 7 AM and 5 PM each day.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Hank, what does your homemade am mix consist of???


----------



## KRayl (Aug 22, 2008)

Sounds like a good plan to me. We'll probably stick to the kibble for tonight and if all is well, go all raw tomorrow. 

I agree that the 5c recommendation seemed a bit high. When I saw what a generous 1c portion looked like, I couldn't imagine feeding her 2.5c all at once! I'll see how she does with 1.5c and take it from there. She gets a lot of treats through out the day (working on a lot of training with her) so she shouldn't be too hungry!

I am definitely a sucker for those big brown puppy dog eyes! I'll try hard to not give in!


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Hank, what does your homemade am mix consist of???


Till last fall this is what I did for my mix. I would buy a boneless 5-6 lb. piece of beef - whatever was on sale - and grind that up in the food processor. To that I would add 1 lb. greens (kale,collards) and two lbs. of carrots. The greens and carrots were run through an electric juicer. I would also add 1-2 lbs. of apples diced up, couple of "glugs" of apple cider vinegar and 1-2 tablespoons of garlic powder. I would put this mixture into 2 1/2 cup freezer containers and freeze. Each day when I fed one container I would take out the next day's and let it thaw in the frig. This would feed two dogs for about 14 days. 
I am currently not making my own mix any more. I am using the Oma's Pride meat/veg mixes (beef, chicken and turkey). It is much more convenient but also more expensive this way.


----------



## Popebendgoldens (May 16, 2008)

KRayl said:


> We have begun transitioning Avery on to a raw food diet and I want to be sure we're doing it right. Her vet suggested offering it to her slowly, one meal per day, so we gave it to her for breakfast this morning. She still eats three meals per day and I'm a bit concerned about feeding her kibble for lunch (and dinner) since I've heard that the combination of the two (raw and kibble) could potentially lead to bloat.
> 
> I'm also wondering about amounts. Her vet said to feed her 5 cups per day (2.5 in the morning and 2.5 in the evening.) Since she's still getting 3 meals per day, I only gave her 1(generous) cup of raw (ground chicken, etc.) this morning and It seemed like A LOT! I can't imagine her gobbling up 2.5 cups all at once!
> 
> ...


While I don't agree with your vet, at least he isn't dead set against feeding a raw diet. 

I believe in going straight into feeding a raw diet. Either give away the kibble or throw it away. It isn't needed. Dogs do great going straight to a raw diet. 

Here are some websites that are helpful to learning what to feed and how to feed a raw diet
www.rawlearning.com/
www.rawmeatybones.com 
www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/
www.rawfed.com/ 

The ONLY time I feed a ground meat diet is transitioning cats to a raw diet or when an animal is sick. 

Ground meat isn't necessary to feed to dogs, unless there the dog has little to no teeth or if the dog is sick and ailing.

I also don't feed my dogs any chicken leg quarters. I know of many people who have had dogs choke on the leg quarters. Chicken leg are weight bearing bones and are subject to more splintering and chocking. 

Shirley's wellness cafe has a raw food calculator that will tell you how much to feed your dog. You put in the weight of the dog and then put in % of body weight. Most adult dogs do fine eating 2-2.5% of their body weight. You will have to read how much to feed your puppy. 

I feed mainly what is called a "prey model" diet. I started out grinding meat and adding veggies. It got to be a big pain to do all of that. I feed very few if any veggies and try to rotate the different types of animal protein, ie beef, chicken, fish, etc. I am feeding more chicken than anything else because I am feeding a large amount of animals (9 cats and 2 goldens) and chicken is by far the cheapest. 

Good luck and please join a few of the yahoo groups on raw feeding as it is very helpful.

Pat


----------



## tintallie (May 31, 2006)

Do you know how much Avery's dam and sire weighed so you can estimate how large she will be when she is an adult?

Young puppies on raw need up to 10% of their body weight daily, and as they get older the percentage decreases. At 6.5 months I would scale it back to maybe 3-4% of the body weight. Depending on activity level as an adult, you maybe feeding between 2-3% of body weight each day split between two meals.

We currently feed ground bison with organ mix and bone meal as well as ground beef plus RMBs like bison or elk ribs, bison tendons, turkey necks, chicken necks, sometimes chicken quarters. I also add in 1.5 pumps of Grizzly Salmon Oil and a pinch of dried kelp every meal. We have been lucky to find suppliers that will sell us 40lbs+ each time in meat/organ/bone and they do not use growth hormones and let their livestock roam (free range).


----------



## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

Some good advice here...

As for amount, you have to learn to gage your pup. Storee for example was eating about four pounds (8 cups) per day for the past year and not putting on weight - she was horribly thin! Then within a month she suddenly put meat on her bones and sprung out a bit and looks totally different. She's now on two pounds a day. Her siblings were all eating much less except for her one brother who was eating a lot too - some eat one pound, some two and were all fine. My other golden did the same, very thin then suddenly gained. I've gone from feeding about six pounds and a bit to four and a bit (thank goodness I have a staff discount for raw food or else...).

Lana


----------



## KRayl (Aug 22, 2008)

I'm not sure exactly how much her parents weighed but it seemed they were on the leaner side of goldens. I guess I'd say she's a pretty active pup since she goes to daycare anywhere up to 5 days a week, plus a couple of 45min walks on the weekends. We have her in basic obedience now and once she's ready, we're going to give agility a try so her activity level will be up there. Once the weather warms up we'll also be taking her hiking with us....

Our vet recommended we put Avery on a raw diet after we explained her history of various reoccuring 'cold-like' symptoms (runny eyes, runny nose, congestion, etc.), mild itching, irritated ears, gingivits (at 6.5mos!?!?!), etc. Unfortunately Avery's previous vet didn't really seem too concerned about any of these symptoms (they didn't even notice half of them!) and continued to treat her with antibiotics without much testing or understanding of what was really going with her. After a couple of pretty bothersome instances with her vet, I knew deep down that something wasn't right so we got a second and third opinion - and here we are. Her current vet is a holistic vet and he strongly believes that most of these things should be dealt with through proper nutrition. She really wasn't "sick" and was being loaded up with antibiotics, some of which were too strong and caused temporary (mild) lameness in her back legs. After he took the time to talk with us and understood Avery, he suggested that we stick to poultry while introducing her to the raw diet to see how she responds and then move on to other protein sources. 

I'm so relieved that we've finally found a vet that shares our beliefs when it comes to nutrition. I'm also glad that there are so many others here on this forum that feed a raw diet. There's so much to learn and understand when it comes to raw diets - I really appreciate the suggestions from those who have experience. Hopefully I won't bug you all with too many questions while I'm still learning!


----------



## KRayl (Aug 22, 2008)

Popebendgoldens said:


> Shirley's wellness cafe has a raw food calculator that will tell you how much to feed your dog. You put in the weight of the dog and then put in % of body weight. Most adult dogs do fine eating 2-2.5% of their body weight. You will have to read how much to feed your puppy. Pat


Based on that calculator (at 3%), Avery should be eating 1.41 pounds per day. Judging it by what I gave her for breakfast, that'll be about 2 cups. 

I'm guessing that it doesn't make a difference if it's actual parts as opposed to ground?



Bender said:


> Storee for example was eating about four pounds (8 cups) per day for the past year ...


8 cups!?!?! Guess I should start thinking about extra freezer space! :uhoh:


----------



## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

One pound is roughly 2 cups of ground. Yep, she went through a lotta food. I used to get the patties in bulk but the one place doesn't do that anymore. 

The patties at least don't take up a lot of space because they're compact. We moved this summer and have been freezerless but have two fridges, one freezer in the fridge is dog food (for now anyway).

Lana


----------



## tintallie (May 31, 2006)

KRayl said:


> Based on that calculator (at 3%), Avery should be eating 1.41 pounds per day. Judging it by what I gave her for breakfast, that'll be about 2 cups.
> 
> I'm guessing that it doesn't make a difference if it's actual parts as opposed to ground?
> 
> ...


I bought a kitchen scale and split food into approximate size portions. Since Wiggs needs about 1.25-1.5lbs a day, I measure out his food in grams (454 grams = 1lb).

We bought an upright freezer just for the dog  and DH stores his ice cream in there as well since he goes through 4L pails in no time flat.


----------



## Popebendgoldens (May 16, 2008)

I have an upright freezer just for my 2 dogs and 9 cats. My neighbor went hunting and brought me some deer rib bones. I ground the deer bones so that my cats might taste what deer meat tastes like. Fortunately my grinder was able to grind up the rib bones easily. 

I am glad that you are seeing a better vet now and you pup is no longer on antibiotics. 

Pat


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Popebend ... what kind of grinder do you use?????


----------



## SoGolden (Jul 17, 2008)

I am very interested in this thread. The first question that comes to mind is about cost. How does feeding raw compare in cost to commercial kibbles? Harry eats ProPlan.


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

SoGolden said:


> I am very interested in this thread. The first question that comes to mind is about cost. How does feeding raw compare in cost to commercial kibbles? Harry eats ProPlan.


 
Using a premade mix and raw meaty bones my cost per day per dog is roughly $1.35. When I was making my own patty mix and the same raw meaty bones it was about $1.00 per day per dog.


----------



## KRayl (Aug 22, 2008)

SoGolden said:


> I am very interested in this thread. The first question that comes to mind is about cost. How does feeding raw compare in cost to commercial kibbles? Harry eats ProPlan.



I'm so very new at this so I'm not very helpful; I know others will be able to give you a much better response, but.... I can share what little experience I have had. 

I think that it depends on a lot of different things. You can buy raw food that is ground and ready to go with bones, vegetables, organs, etc or you can do it yourself. If you do it yourself, you have to buy all of these ingredients yourself and spend time preparing it. If you buy raw food, you have to decide if you want to buy bulk Walmart chicken (as I read on a raw food forum yesterday. I guess I'd say I have different intentions here.... personally, I wouldn't sacrifice quality for cost) or you can buy high quality chicken (etc.). I feel like there are so many different ways to feed raw and the menu options are neverending. To me, it was intimidating and overwhelming because there is so much to learn about it but I decided to start small and buy the pre-made ground chicken (and chicken with veggies). At the store I buy from, they sell Vermont Raw and they also sell Oma's Pride. While I would prefer to buy the Vermont Raw brand, a10lb package of Oma's pride was $6 less than Vermont Raw. It's little decisions like these and learning as you go that'll be helpful with the cost along the way, I think. Eventually, I'd like to know enough about it to be able to buy high quality, local food yet still keep the cost low.... I figure that over time, if Avery responds well to this diet, it may not cost less than feeding kibble, but it will hopefully save us on vet bills and prescriptions, etc. I've read on various different sites that if you're doing it right, it should be either the same amount or less than feeding kibble. Time will tell, I guess! Good luck with it if you decide to go this route.


----------



## Goldilocks (Jun 3, 2007)

SoGolden said:


> I am very interested in this thread. The first question that comes to mind is about cost. How does feeding raw compare in cost to commercial kibbles? Harry eats ProPlan.


I believe my cost of feeding a variety of homemade food and raw food for one Golden is the same as it costs me for a 30lb bag of Orijen dog food for a month. 

If I look at it even deeper, it's even less cost because I no longer am dealing with vet bills for ear infections and skin yeast. Grooming costs are also less as she's doesn't get stinky.


----------



## KRayl (Aug 22, 2008)

A quick question about feeding time.... she seems to absolutely LOVE what she's eating and inhales it in no time. I'm feeding it to her (1.5c) cold, straight out of the fridge. 

Any danger in her eating something cold so quickly?


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

KRayl said:


> A quick question about feeding time.... she seems to absolutely LOVE what she's eating and inhales it in no time. I'm feeding it to her (1.5c) cold, straight out of the fridge.
> 
> Any danger in her eating something cold so quickly?


 
No. At least mine have never complained of a "brain freeze" :--big_grin:


----------



## KRayl (Aug 22, 2008)

OK - that's what I was hoping to hear! Thanks for all your help throughout this whole process


----------



## KRayl (Aug 22, 2008)

Well, the raw diet is going really well. Avery seems to be very please with it.  The only thing we're running into now is that she seems to be a bit constipated. It only started this morning but I want to be sure to be on top of things before it becomes an issue. Since we started feeding raw, I've also been giving her pumpkin 2x day in her kong. I've been giving about 3tbsp a day.... should I increase the amount? Is there something else I could try? The raw mix she is eating now is the chicken and veggies so I know she's getting a bit of fiber through that as well....


----------



## tintallie (May 31, 2006)

Pumpkin can work both ways, but if there is enough bone content, and she's not allergic to the protein then you shouldn't need the pumpkin. Bone (RMB or ground) will firm up the poop so if there is too much, the poop will look crumbly and chalky.


----------



## KRayl (Aug 22, 2008)

tintallie said:


> Pumpkin can work both ways, but if there is enough bone content, and she's not allergic to the protein then you shouldn't need the pumpkin. Bone (RMB or ground) will firm up the poop so if there is too much, the poop will look crumbly and chalky.


It does look a bit chalky.... is that what it should look like? I'm feeding her Oma's Pride right now so it's not something I'm making on my own.


----------



## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

KRayl said:


> We have begun transitioning Avery on to a raw food diet and I want to be sure we're doing it right. Her vet suggested offering it to her slowly, one meal per day, so we gave it to her for breakfast this morning. She still eats three meals per day and I'm a bit concerned about feeding her kibble for lunch (and dinner) since I've heard that the combination of the two (raw and kibble) could potentially lead to bloat.
> 
> I'm also wondering about amounts. Her vet said to feed her 5 cups per day (2.5 in the morning and 2.5 in the evening.) Since she's still getting 3 meals per day, I only gave her 1(generous) cup of raw (ground chicken, etc.) this morning and It seemed like A LOT! I can't imagine her gobbling up 2.5 cups all at once!


Kim, 
I'd just keep an eye on her weight - 5 cups does sound like a lot of food - but she's at a good starting weight and I know you and Bob are on top of her condition. They do tend to need more volume of the raw food than kibble. 

You can start her with what you feel comfortable with and then just pay attention to how she's looking condition-wise. I upped Teller's food recently for a show this weekend and he's now getting 5 cups a day - it's obscene!!! He'll go on a diet starting Monday 

Erica


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

KRayl said:


> It does look a bit chalky.... is that what it should look like? I'm feeding her Oma's Pride right now so it's not something I'm making on my own.


 
Yes her poop sounds perfect. She will have MUCH, MUCH less of it also. There will be times when you go to pick it up it will disenergrate into dust. I would also suggest holing off on the pupmkin although i don't think it will cause any problem if you wish to continue it. My guess is she is not really constipated. My dogs will at times only poop once a day. I am glad the switch over went smoothly for you.


----------



## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

KRayl said:


> Eventually, I'd like to know enough about it to be able to buy high quality, local food yet still keep the cost low.... I figure that over time, if Avery responds well to this diet, it may not cost less than feeding kibble, but it will hopefully save us on vet bills and prescriptions, etc.


I'm late on the thread here - but if you decide to keep her on raw (and if you have a freezer) there are some bulk options. We have a local Bravo distributor and they deliver once a month - that's several cases in your freezer. PFW also sells Oma's in bulk - as does show me the biscuit. I've fed Omas and Bravo...

Erica


----------



## KRayl (Aug 22, 2008)

MurphyTeller said:


> Kim,
> I'd just keep an eye on her weight - 5 cups does sound like a lot of food - but she's at a good starting weight and I know you and Bob are on top of her condition. They do tend to need more volume of the raw food than kibble.
> 
> You can start her with what you feel comfortable with and then just pay attention to how she's looking condition-wise. I upped Teller's food recently for a show this weekend and he's now getting 5 cups a day - it's obscene!!! He'll go on a diet starting Monday
> ...


Hi Erica :wave:

Is Teller on a raw diet? 

I agree, 5 cups of food did seemed like a lot to me so I'm going with 3 cups right now (1.5, 2x day). That seems to be okay but I may give her a bit more than that on days she's much more active. The first time I served her the raw chicken, I scoped 1 cup into her bowl and really couldn't see her consuming another cup and a half on top of that - all at once! Yikes...


----------



## KRayl (Aug 22, 2008)

MurphyTeller said:


> I'm late on the thread here - but if you decide to keep her on raw (and if you have a freezer) there are some bulk options. We have a local Bravo distributor and they deliver once a month - that's several cases in your freezer. PFW also sells Oma's in bulk - as does show me the biscuit. I've fed Omas and Bravo...
> 
> Erica


The first package we bought was VT Raw and went through that pretty quickly. We then picked up the biggest size of Oma's Chicken and Veggie mix at PFW. Have you used VT Raw? I was surprised to see how different the consistency was between the two. Oma's seems to have larger bones... and it's a bit more dry than VT Raw. 

Seeing how fast she is going through the stuff, we're seriously considering getting another freezer. I'll have to look into Bravo and show me the biscuit. I've never heard of them!


----------



## KRayl (Aug 22, 2008)

AmbikaGR said:


> Yes her poop sounds perfect. She will have MUCH, MUCH less of it also. There will be times when you go to pick it up it will disenergrate into dust. I would also suggest holing off on the pupmkin although i don't think it will cause any problem if you wish to continue it. My guess is she is not really constipated. My dogs will at times only poop once a day. I am glad the switch over went smoothly for you.


So you think it's okay to stick to what we're doing now? No need for any other supplement to help move things along? It's just a change seeing her poop going from one way to another - it also seems a bit more difficult for her to do her business but... she's producing so I guess that's what matters? One of the main reasons for the pumpkin is because we're also giving her an herbal formula (four marvels) and i didn't want to mix it with her food and risk her turning her nose up at it. I'd rather her waste a kong full of pumpkin than a bowl full of raw! :uhoh: She really isn't needing four marvels right now so I'll hold off on the pumpkin for a bit.


----------



## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

Just thought I'd add that in addition to what I've read above, I personally suppliment with vit E (400 iu), Omega 3 fish oil (about 2000 mg), a spoon of yogurt (for probiotics), and twice a week they each get a raw egg... incl. shell.


----------



## KRayl (Aug 22, 2008)

Lego&Jacub said:


> Just thought I'd add that in addition to what I've read above, I personally suppliment with vit E (400 iu), Omega 3 fish oil (about 2000 mg), a spoon of yogurt (for probiotics), and twice a week they each get a raw egg... incl. shell.


How do you serve the shell? As is, cracked in half? Thanks for the suggestions


----------



## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

SoGolden said:


> I am very interested in this thread. The first question that comes to mind is about cost. How does feeding raw compare in cost to commercial kibbles? Harry eats ProPlan.


 
It depends a lot on what you feed! 
The cost can vary, if you're feeding premade patties all the time. If you try to find a company that makes their products close to you, then you're paying less for shipping costs. When you feed an expensive protien for variety (very important) you can feed a lighter meal, then feed a bigger meal the next day of something that's not as expensive. If you can get items in bulk or by the case that helps too. I used to get green tripe for next to nothing, however it was in a garbage bag and just had the contents dumped before going into the bag - so it was huge and I had the job of cutting it up and the mess and smell.

But, it's not often my dogs are sick or have the runs (of course saying that we've had a GI bug with two now, not fun), they all have good teeth, clear ears and skin and little to no smell (apart from when they have a GI bug). We're not rushing to the vet for anything, coats are good, energy level is good, poops are small, hard and dry and don't smell as much. 

Lana


----------



## Popebendgoldens (May 16, 2008)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Popebend ... what kind of grinder do you use?????


My grinder, is from www.northerntools.com It is a Tasin 108 mincer. It is about 9 years old and was about $129. It is all metal parts and can grind chicken backs, necks, chicken legs, and now deer ribs. 

I would stay away from the Maverick grinder as it is a smaller motor and some of the parts are plastic. Maverick grinders are ok for chicken necks but not much more.

Pat


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Popebendgoldens said:


> The ONLY time I feed a ground meat diet is transitioning cats to a raw diet or when an animal is sick.
> 
> Ground meat isn't necessary to feed to dogs, unless there the dog has little to no teeth or if the dog is sick and ailing.


I, on the other hand, feed primarily ground raw to my dogs. My Whippet sustained a slab fracture on her 4th pre molar and eventually had to have it removed. I used to feed chicken backs and would give other RMBs from time to time. I don't know what caused the fracture, but the bones certainly could have contributed.

I also have a very experienced raw feeding friend who lost her Pit Bull to a turkey neck.

I've been doing exclusively ground for five years. Still have small poops, still have healthy dogs, and they still have great teeth.

Just my personal experience. Plus, the containers of raw stack much more conveniently in my freezer than RMBs ever did!


----------



## KRayl (Aug 22, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> I, on the other hand, feed primarily ground raw to my dogs. My Whippet sustained a slab fracture on her 4th pre molar and eventually had to have it removed. I used to feed chicken backs and would give other RMBs from time to time. I don't know what caused the fracture, but the bones certainly could have contributed.
> 
> I also have a very experienced raw feeding friend who lost her Pit Bull to a turkey neck.
> 
> ...


This is what is so interesting about feeding such a diet... everyone has had very different experiences and it seems like there are so many variations. At first, this was so intimidating to me but I've learned as long as she's getting the proper nutrition in one way, shape or form, then it all boils down to what the person is more comfortable with. For me, I tend to be overly cautious :nervous: so I will most likely stick to the ground food for now but eventually I may feel brave enough to give something else a try. I'd love to be able to offer her a variety of different things.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> I, on the other hand, feed primarily ground raw to my dogs. My Whippet sustained a slab fracture on her 4th pre molar and eventually had to have it removed. I used to feed chicken backs and would give other RMBs from time to time. I don't know what caused the fracture, but the bones certainly could have contributed.
> 
> I also have a very experienced raw feeding friend who lost her Pit Bull to a turkey neck.
> 
> ...



Do you feed a prepared raw???? If so, what??? If not, what does your mixture consist of??? Supplements???


----------



## Popebendgoldens (May 16, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Plus, the containers of raw stack much more conveniently in my freezer than RMBs ever did!


I repackage my chicken necks and backs into plastic containers. I used to put the chicken parts into freezer bags but had problems with the bags sticking to the wire bars in the freezer. I now use containers like Glad (but generic) to put the chicken parts into my fridge. 

Pat


----------

