# National Specialty including field trials is canceled for 2020



## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

The venue actually canceled. It wasn't canceled by the club. Sorry to say so many club specialties like mine have been canceled this year. I know so many people put so much time and energy into putting the national specialty together at this point, it's so sad to lose all their hard work. I hope we can all attend the national specialty 2021 in Michigan Sept 19-29, 2021.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

I wasn’t planning to go this year. I am planning to go on a cruise in early 2021.....I hope. It’s not looking good! I am 100% planning to go to next years national. Sad they had to cancel. I know they had a lot of work into it already.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

I am absolutely heartbroken by this news. I was so looking forward to this one shining event in the future and it's just not happening. I was hoping to show Rocket in Rally for a QQQ and Eevee in at least BN and Conformation, maybe Rally Novice too. And the professional handlers will lose potentially tens of thousands of dollars from not doing this one event. This event could have potentially made up for missing a few months of shows during this part of the year. It's just such a sad situation and not anyone's fault really. The venue had to do what's best for the people on site for construction right now and the club has to do whats best for health and safety. Robin and her club have put their hearts and souls into this National, so I'm sure no one is hurting as much as them. Nationals take years of planning to pull off well - and this one promised to be spectacular. @Prism Goldens I'm so so sorry. :-(


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## Edward Lee Nelson (Jan 2, 2017)

I read where the GRCA is trying to do a field only National in Sedalia MO. in late Oct.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Edward Lee Nelson said:


> I read where the GRCA is trying to do a field only National in Sedalia MO. in late Oct.


Yeah, I've heard rumors about that. I hope that whoever is trying to get it going is in touch with Roger Fuller and the GRCA Board. Also, if they want to hold it in Sedalia, I hope that the landowner and the pro that trains on that property have already given the okay.


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## Edward Lee Nelson (Jan 2, 2017)

A week ago because of necessary advance planning at the venue in Florida, the GRCA National Specialty was cancelled for the event scheduled in Florida for October 2020.
A group of people involved in golden field met last night and are trying to get an alternate event planned:
We are trying to find a way to preserve a field trial for Goldens only for 2020.
We still need to get details ironed out and there will be a need for support from a lot of people. I am in the process of letting potentially interested GRCA members and golden owners everywhere in the country know about these plans.
We will need their support and want them to petition the GRCA board to support this effort. We will need to have the board's approval to allow us ti use their AKC “slot” for the trial as well as some financial seed support. We will also need AKC approval for the changes. We are expecting to switch the date to late October and are still working on solidifying a site. Although we have not gotten approval from the owner, we are hoping to use grounds in MO so we can get helper support and draw equally from both sides of the country We are hoping to have a full field trial and a Master & Sr. Hunt test.
So please feel free to start a mail in campaign of support to the GRCA Board [email protected]
Also get you field friends to join in! Thanks
Lee
Lee Herskowitz
Semper Retrievers
Portland, OR
[email protected]et

** It kills us in the Mid Atlantic and NE. Fl was 13 hours from us ( we were going) and Sedalia is 16.5 from us. Next year is in Ohio? So the National won’t be back on the East Coast til 2023. **


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

FTGoldens said:


> Yeah, I've heard rumors about that. I hope that whoever is trying to get it going is in touch with Roger Fuller and the GRCA Board. Also, if they want to hold it in Sedalia, I hope that the landowner and the pro that trains on that property have already given the okay.


If it's in Sedalia and includes an Open and Am I'd enter and help. Depending, of course, on how good the waterfowl hunting is here at that time.
I have mixed feelings about Golden only trials. It would be fun but it puts an asterisks buy a placement IMO.


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## Edward Lee Nelson (Jan 2, 2017)

Still gives you the points, you just need a All Breed win for a FC-AFC. If Im correct


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Edward Lee Nelson said:


> Still gives you the points, you just need a All Breed win for a FC-AFC. If Im correct


As I understand it, a maximum of 5 points from a Golden only trial count toward an FC/AFC.
Those are the 5 with an * IMO. Not knocking it but I'd be chasing 5 all breed points to eliminate the *.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Doesn't help for this year but next the 2021 in Ocala will dovetail with the Jacksonville Ret Club's FT.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Master National is in MN Sept 24 - Oct 4. 
National Derby is in MT Oct 5-9
There are some conflicts to consider.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Edward Lee Nelson said:


> Still gives you the points, you just need a All Breed win for a FC-AFC. If Im correct


And a win in the Open or Am counts as the win necessary to qualify for a National.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

That would be a delightful problem to have
YEAH RIGHT who would think their dog didn't earn those points if won at a golden field trial
Your dumb lab friends might think it...but that's why they have labs...they're too dumb to train a golden


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

K9-Design said:


> That would be a delightful problem to have
> YEAH RIGHT who would think their dog didn't earn those points if won at a golden field trial
> Your dumb lab friends might think it...but that's why they have labs...they're too dumb to train a golden


The points are earned however they do, in fact, come with an asterisks, as they should IMO. The AKC Retriever Field Trial Advisory Committee agrees.


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

K9-Design said:


> That would be a delightful problem to have
> YEAH RIGHT who would think their dog didn't earn those points if won at a golden field trial
> Your dumb lab friends might think it...but that's why they have labs...they're too dumb to train a golden


This must be a problem unique to your anecdotal experience. Over the years in the service dog area, I've seen many volunteer puppy raisers do an excellent job training labs, goldens, and lab-golden crosses. I've also not encountered one of the staff's professional trainers who couldn't train both a lab and a golden and the lab-golden crosses.


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## DaveVerbyla (Oct 28, 2019)

I am curious. In general how are goldens different than labs in terms of training? Thanks.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

GoldenDude -- you're in the field forum. Not service dogs.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

DaveVerbyla said:


> In general how are goldens different than labs in terms of training?


In my limited experience and what I hear from others, there is no difference. Goldens with the drive and talent needed to attain FC-AFC titles are much less common than labs of equal talent. 
Some but certainly not all of the reason can be attributed to the owners and how they train. I have no proof but I feel confident in saying that no dog of any breed ever made FC or AFC due to treat trades or timeouts.


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

K9-Design said:


> GoldenDude -- you're in the field forum. Not service dogs.


So your experience doesn't carry over to other areas of training. Thx for clarifying.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Lots of stuff going on in this thread!

As for the Specialty field trials ... FOR ME, I see them more a social event to get together with old field trial friends and an opportunity to meet new field trial friends. I enjoy the camaraderie more than running the trial. That said, I have, indeed, placed and earned points at a Specialty or two. 
As for the level of competition, before the first series is underway, it's pretty easy to figure out which of entries will most likely be running the last series, that's because those dogs have already shown their talent and successfully competed against the other retriever breeds. 
In my opinion, the rulebook is right ... (i) a certain number of the points should count toward a title but the dog should not get a title if it hasn't been successful in an all-breed trial and (ii) the win (and other points) should count toward qualifying for a National; however, to earn the coveted titles of FC and AFC, the dog should have to succeed against the other breeds. 
As to the asterisk, a near analogy could be said for the dogs that earn points or the win against a field of 25 dogs vs. a field of 120 dogs, or a field that has only 1 or 2 titled dogs vs a field that has 40, so it's a bit of a slippery slope to say that one win isn't as worthy as another win. Understanding this, if it's September and I'm 1/2 point short of qualifying for the National Retriever Championship, I will be sending in my entries for the Specialty as well as keeping my eyes on the computer screen two weeks before any nearby trials to see if there's going to be a small Open.

As for training a Golden or a Lab, there's as much differentiation within each than there is between the breeds. One post suggested that the Golden owners/trainers are often the limiting factor in a dog's progress, I agree. One highly regarded trainer with multiple FCs told me, early in the career of my most successful Golden to date, to "train with the Lab folks to make sure your standards are high enough." 

SRW, what's "timeout" training? Maybe it's something that I need to add to my training toolbox. 

FTGoldens


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

GoldenDude said:


> So your experience doesn't carry over to other areas of training. Thx for clarifying.


pot > kettle


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

FTGoldens said:


> As to the asterisk, a near analogy could be said for the dogs that earn points or the win against a field of 25 dogs vs. a field of 120 dogs, or a field that has only 1 or 2 titled dogs vs a field that has 40, so it's a bit of a slippery slope to say that one win isn't as worthy as another win.


Good analogy.
Winning an all breed trial stacked with dozens of FC-AFC dogs is more impressive than winning a owner handler amateur with 15 QAA entries but both count for 5 points. 
Not disparaging anyone's accomplishments. A win is a win but some are greater achievements than others.




FTGoldens said:


> SRW, what's "timeout" training? Maybe it's something that I need to add to my training toolbox.


The same form of discipline that doesn't work on children. Apparently some use it on dogs, I read about it on this forum.


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## OscarsDad (Dec 20, 2017)

"One highly regarded trainer with multiple FCs told me, early in the career of my most successful Golden to date, to "train with the Lab folks to make sure your standards are high enough.""

That's a positive affirmation of trainers for both breeds.


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

FTGoldens said:


> As for training a Golden or a Lab, there's as much differentiation within each than there is between the breeds. One post suggested that the Golden owners/trainers are often the limiting factor in a dog's progress, I agree. One highly regarded trainer with multiple FCs told me, early in the career of my most successful Golden to date, to "train with the Lab folks to make sure your standards are high enough."


Great quote FT! 

I would love for the specialty to occur this year in Missouri mainly because I'd love to meet everyone. Living in SD and being new to the field game, I have met very few golden folks. I'd love to see that change! Plus I think it would be really fun to run the derby since my plans to run the qual in the 2021 national in Ohio got squashed (for good reason, I'm glad Florida gets to have it).


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

GoldenDude said:


> This must be a problem unique to your anecdotal experience. Over the years in the service dog area, I've seen many volunteer puppy raisers do an excellent job training labs, goldens, and lab-golden crosses. I've also not encountered one of the staff's professional trainers who couldn't train both a lab and a golden and the lab-golden crosses.


Sorry we gave you some funny answers. Maybe you should hear just a little bit about goldens and labs in field trials. At most field trials, there are 98% labradors entered and 2% goldens entered. One of the above commentors on this thread, won a field trial with the only golden entered in the field trial. If I remember right the entry was more than 70 dogs total. So you can imagine what goldens are up against in field trials, there are so many more labs running them. To attain a FC (field champion title), you have to go against all breeds. Unlike Ch (show champion title), you only go up against golden retrievers to attain that title. In the average year, only 2 or 3 goldens attain a FC title, whereas 50-60 labs do. So over in the field area, we like to poke at labs since there are so many more of them. To achieve a FC title, the breeding is a pretty short list of sires/dams. The training is every day all day for years. Average age of a FC title achieved I'm going to guess is 6 years old. So it's a very long hard slog that is a super difficult steep hill to climb.

I hope we didn't put you off in our comments. We're not anti lab, we're just making fun of them and ourselves a little.
By the way, just for statistics, the top points 18 out of 20 OTCH (obedience trial champions) dogs, are golden retrievers. So yup we have labs beat in that area for sure.
Isn't it amazing how versatile goldens are?


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## Edward Lee Nelson (Jan 2, 2017)

In the average year, only 2 or 3 goldens attain a FC /AFC:

Alaska, I added AFC. It is way less than that. I think maybe only 1 FC is completing now and maybe 3 AFC? I could be off by 1 or 2 but not many. But any case what a historic milestone for Golden to achieve a FC or AFC. Keep plugging Golden owners there are some nice young Golden’s running. And yes I love it when you are the only Golden running!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Edward Lee Nelson said:


> In the average year, only 2 or 3 goldens attain a FC /AFC:
> 
> Alaska, I added AFC. It is way less than that. I think maybe only 1 FC is completing now and maybe 3 AFC? I could be off by 1 or 2 but not many. But any case what a historic milestone for Golden to achieve a FC or AFC. Keep plugging Golden owners there are some nice young Golden’s running. And yes I love it when you are the only Golden running!


There are just too few aren't there?
I was really sad when FC Thistle Rock Red Ike died. He only 9 and hadn't had his FC very long. I think Glenda keeps pretty good track of how many there are. I just threw out a number.


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## Edward Lee Nelson (Jan 2, 2017)

Totally not enough! Hopefully a few more in the next few years. I’m trying my best to get there 🙂 Got to make it through the Q first with our 3 yr old but I think she may have the tools and our off the wall 7 month old, we will see.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Edward Lee Nelson said:


> 1. I think maybe only 1 FC is completing now and maybe 3 AFC? I could be off by 1 or 2 but not many.
> 
> 2. And yes I love it when you are the only Golden running!


1. How about the list of currently competing titled Goldens? I may not remember them all, but I'll start and hope someone finishes:


> >>FC: Crush
> >>AFC: Amber, Hawk, Zeva (is she running now?)
> >>FC-AFC: none


2. Yep!

FTGoldens


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## Edward Lee Nelson (Jan 2, 2017)

> >FC: Crush
> 
> 
> > AFC: Amber, Hawk, Zeva (is she running now?)
> > FC-AFC: none


FT Goldens, that is the list I had. Zeva ran a trial in March (She is 8)

A few maybe close: I know Otter has 9 open pts (needs a all breed open win though) and has 14.5 AA points with All breed Amateur win but I dont know how many Benita or Todd got compared with Dave Rorem.

I know the Fullers dogs: Jesse and Auggie are close. Both have I think 20 AA points but I dont know the breakdowns of Open/AM and Specialty points


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## drdawg (May 31, 2011)

Edward Lee Nelson said:


> A week ago because of necessary advance planning at the venue in Florida, the GRCA National Specialty was cancelled for the event scheduled in Florida for October 2020.
> A group of people involved in golden field met last night and are trying to get an alternate event planned:
> We are trying to find a way to preserve a field trial for Goldens only for 2020.
> We still need to get details ironed out and there will be a need for support from a lot of people. I am in the process of letting potentially interested GRCA members and golden owners everywhere in the country know about these plans.
> ...


So its 30 hours from home for me! There is no * on a placement at a golden only FT. There will be plenty of good competition and challenging tests, where ever it may be. Our organizing group is still waiting on the board to allow us to put on this event, but we have spoken with the land owner and the pro's family to get preliminary approval. Final plans will be confirmed as well as a great judging panel IF we get approval for the trial. Plans currently call for a Hunt Test to precede the trial and those plans are also in progress!
Plan to come as well as to continue to petition the GRCA Board members that you want this event to go! their emails are on the grca.org web site.


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## drdawg (May 31, 2011)

Please watch EE for possible activity r=to replace the cancelled National FT and HT.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Thanks Drdawg for working so hard on this. It would be really nice if it all comes together.

I’d love to be there, but flying from Alaska these days is infinitely more difficult these days since there are so few flights now to the states. Unless I can fit in the time to drive the 2700 miles to Seattle, I‘ll be camped out up here.


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## drdawg (May 31, 2011)

Alaska7133 said:


> Thanks Drdawg for working so hard on this. It would be really nice if it all comes together.
> 
> I’d love to be there, but flying from Alaska these days is infinitely more difficult these days since there are so few flights now to the states. Unless I can fit in the time to drive the 2700 miles to Seattle, I‘ll be camped out up here.


Hope you can figure out a way to get there Stacey! Looks like it's going to happen!


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## drdawg (May 31, 2011)

For your information!!


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## drdawg (May 31, 2011)

SRW said:


> If it's in Sedalia and includes an Open and Am I'd enter and help. Depending, of course, on how good the waterfowl hunting is here at that time.
> I have mixed feelings about Golden only trials. It would be fun but it puts an asterisks buy a placement IMO.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

drdawg,

Kudos for pulling this off!

The judging panel which you assembled is outstanding! For those who don't recognize all of the names ... THREE of them have judged either a National Retriever Championship or a National Amateur Retriever Championship and all are 7 or 8 point judges!!! Additionally, most, if not all, train their own dogs a great deal of the time. These judges, on the Wood Dale grounds, will put on a marvelous event.

So drdawg, when will entries open up? I'm ready!  

FTGoldens


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## drdawg (May 31, 2011)

Thank you. People can do us right by coming AND running their dogs. Qualifying is often a fun experience for those who also run MH stakes. We know people will still be worried about COVID issues, but we are planning on following guidelines to keep everyone safe! ALSO the numbers in MO have been very low. We are 3 weeks after the National Derby Championship at the same grounds (by the way, world class grounds); if there is any inkling of a problem at the NDC we will take note and adjust accordingly. We picked the venue because it IS a world class location and because it is half way for both coast. I will be traveling 2000 miles to get there. (by the way who are you FTGoldens?)


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

drdawg said:


> Qualifying is often a fun experience for those who also run MH stakes.


Fun and educational. The rules on distance in MH stakes can lead to boring repetitive tests. The judges can be much more creative in quals. For anyone with a master level dog there is still plenty of time to prepare.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Super jazzed. My friend is thinking of putting his pup in the derby for the first time too. Will make for a great road trip. Fingers crossed that come October we Floridians are allowed to travel! Haha


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Entries close Monday at midnight for the GRCA specialty trial in Sedalia.
Enter now, don’t put it off any longer.


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## drdawg (May 31, 2011)

myluckypenny said:


> Great quote FT!
> 
> I would love for the specialty to occur this year in Missouri mainly because I'd love to meet everyone. Living in SD and being new to the field game, I have met very few golden folks. I'd love to see that change! Plus I think it would be really fun to run the derby since my plans to run the qual in the 2021 national in Ohio got squashed (for good reason, I'm glad Florida gets to have it).


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## drdawg (May 31, 2011)

I Nhope you are coming even if it is to just watch! We could also use a number of volunteers to help with throwing birds and shooting. If you are coming and interested in helping in any way, please get in touch with me!!

Lee


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

drdawg said:


> I Nhope you are coming even if it is to just watch! We could also use a number of volunteers to help with throwing birds and shooting. If you are coming and interested in helping in any way, please get in touch with me!!
> 
> Lee


I agree. My first specialty I attended I didn’t even bring a dog. I just went to all the events and watched and helped where I could. I threw birds for the puppy stakes and marshaled the qualifying field trial. It was so great to see all the wonderful dogs and meet so many nice people.
If I bring a dog, I still volunteer. I like to shoot and throw and marshal. You learn a lot and you get to see so much.


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