# Any information on Kelty's Goldens in Oregon?



## treeboy11 (Feb 25, 2017)

Starting out on the search for a golden retriever puppy! Just wanted to see if anyone had any experiences with Kelty's Goldens, here is the website - 

keltysgoldens

They list registration numbers and pedigrees for their dogs but I was not able to turn up any useful results on offa.org. Any help is appreciated!


----------



## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

Am I reading it correctly that the sire just turned two years old this month?


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Russell the sire has no clearances on OFA.
His sire has no clearances on OFA, and his dam appears to have failed elbows. I put Russell on k9data - here is the link:
Pedigree: Our Golden Boy Russell Wilson
The claim that he has a 'champion pedigree' is a pretty big embellishment.
Polly has a similar pedigree and also lacks clearances- for all the talk about having clearances, they are pretty spotty in her equally non-CH pedigree. Here's her pedigree: Pedigree: Polly the Wide Retriever
Strangely enough this breeding is actually a line breeding on this dog: Pedigree: Denzil's Loveshack Dakota

So- I did not go input the other bitch on k9data, maybe I will do it tomorrow if I find time, or maybe someone else will do it for the greater good... On the upside of this breeder, at least they are not charging a fortune for puppies. I see 950 on the site and that would be a max $ in my opinion - depending on what part of the country they are in it may be a little high since there are no clearances on the sire or dam and the depth of clearances is lacking, as well as the lack of probable quality in the pedigree based on titles, not just CH but no titles in either for the first 4 generations behind them (so 5 behind the puppies before you hit a title of any kind). 
It looks like this breeder would be a good opportunity for someone to offer to mentor- she seems to understand clearances are to be valued, and she's not so enmeshed in breeding that she's got a bunch of bitches all from her starter (yet) so maybe she'd be worth some effort before she gets invested in owning her own stud dog and using him on all her girls.... if anyone has time... and is so inclined....


----------



## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Even at $950, these dogs are overpriced. Our local club, in Oregon, has a pet golden breeder whom at least does all clearances and sells her dogs for $1,100-$1,200. I think this is likely their "business."


----------



## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

I'm adding Rose to k9data. It looks like this person bought a golden 2 years ago and immediately decided to start a breeding operation. Polly turned 2 in December of 2016 and is already on her second litter and Rose won't be 2 until July. So they're breeding puppies whom are barely 1.5 years old.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

I agree way overpriced for the value offered. 

Once you weed through the marketing fluff all that is really there is AKC registration. That is it. 

The dogs have no health testing and it takes much more to keep hip and elbow Dysplasia at bay than pointing to ancestors with testing. 

Their claim of DNA testing only means that the stud dog has sired enough litters that AKC required this as additional evidence incase there is any need to "prove" his descendants come from him. That DNA test has no health information at all. 

Champion bloodlines is a marketing term used to claim quality and achievements that belongs to dogs they don't own and are 5 or more generations back in the pedigrees. It is like riding the coattails of great breeder hard work and dedication. Honestly, even puppy mill mommas can make this same claim. It would be kind of like me saying that because my great-great-great-great-great-grandpa was a genius that I would be too. 

A lot of that website is designed to make these dogs seem like they offer much more value than they do. IMHO these are $600 puppies at best.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I don't buy AKC pedigrees so I have no idea- but is the OFA score on the pedigree the norm now? Used to it said OFEL etc, and the pedigree she has posted for Rose looks normal to me- but the one for Polly and for Russell both look altered to me as to OFA ratings being on them. Like I said, I only see the AKC peds when I am putting dogs on k9data and do not order them myself on my dogs so this may be on the up and up- but if it's not, what'd stop her from putting the wrong rating?


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Prism Goldens said:


> I don't buy AKC pedigrees so I have no idea- but is the OFA score on the pedigree the norm now? Used to it said OFEL etc, and the pedigree she has posted for Rose looks normal to me- but the one for Polly and for Russell both look altered to me as to OFA ratings being on them. Like I said, I only see the AKC peds when I am putting dogs on k9data and do not order them myself on my dogs so this may be on the up and up- but if it's not, what'd stop her from putting the wrong rating?


Yes, I believe you are right and that she is altering the official pedigree to add the hip information herself. The font and spacing looks off and the biggest tell of all is "PennHIP Certified". I have never seen AKC receive any information from PennHIP like they do from OFA also the word certified is not a word PennHIP uses in regard to the dogs, they only certify vets to take the X-rays. 

When it comes to dogs they use the words, method, evaluation, report and breeding recommendation. Because PennHIP scores all hips and does not have a pass/fail set up that inaccurate "PennHIP Certified" tells nothing about how good or how bad this dog's (Russell's father) hips are. For that you would need the DI (distraction index) numbers and the average rating for the breed. Honestly we will probably never know if his PennHIP evaluation shows hips that would recommend to be included in a breeding program but I can say his visible production record is frightening. Of Russell's three 1/2 siblings through his father who have been tested through OFA; 33% have passing hips and elbows, 33% have Dysplastic hips and 33% have normal hips but no elbows which indicates they did not test, which would be odd or more likely they failed and the owner did not sign the failed results publication release. That is 66% of his 1/2 siblings that are missing or failing and important orthopedic health test. :frown2:Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

This language is again a good example of how this breeder uses marketing ploys and inaccurate language to make these dogs seem to have much more value than they do.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I am bothered by her altering the AKC pedigree. It might be ok if there 

were note on it (them) that said ***OFA ratings added to official paperwork** but there is not any disclaimer. So to my mind, this is probably no different than any other forgery whose intent is to deceive a buyer. 

I take back my comment about her needing a mentor. She's clearly well past that point if she's adding things to official paperwork to lend credence to the breedings she is doing.


----------



## Altairss (Sep 7, 2012)

Prism Goldens said:


> Strangely enough this breeding is actually a line breeding on this dog: Pedigree: Denzil's Loveshack Dakota
> 
> 
> By the way Dakota pedigree is incorrect on K9 data. They are showing Can. CH. Westbrook Go Get' Em Gunner Am./Can. CD AKC SM83789901 as the sire of Black Amber mischief but if you look on OFA it is GO GET EM GUNNER****SM90066705 (AKC) Not the same dog but the incorrect dog sure gives a better look to his pedigree.
> ...


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Lesley can fix that. Hopefully she will see your post.


----------



## Altairss (Sep 7, 2012)

Sorry It was your link about the dog they line bred on Denzils Loveshack Dakota 

Pedigree: Denzil's Loveshack Dakota


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

The woman who input that dog did these three as well: Adelaide (dau of Vida's Red Sonja)
Lakota's Big Sky Timber
Montana Grizzly's Aurora Rose
I'm now curious but will have to wait till tomorrow to chase it down....


----------



## Altairss (Sep 7, 2012)

Prism Goldens said:


> The woman who input that dog did these three as well: Adelaide (dau of Vida's Red Sonja)
> Lakota's Big Sky Timber
> Montana Grizzly's Aurora Rose
> I'm now curious but will have to wait till tomorrow to chase it down....


Those look okay at a first glance although since they did not OFA those dogs so no way to see if they are actual offspring via OFA but the pedigrees track back from there.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Gotta love the BOM bucks... so this pedigree (IRL - not what's on k9data, but I have emailed Amy the research pedigree so she can change parentage) when it is changed, will reflect a second influence- this surely stellar dog: Pedigree: Ron's Golden Nugget III


----------



## hahuston (Jul 5, 2017)

Is there any new information regarding this breeder? I stumbled across this forum after I made a deposit on a puppy from them. I'm a total newby to the world of pure bred dogs, papers, certificates, etc. Thank you!


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

hahuston said:


> Is there any new information regarding this breeder? I stumbled across this forum after I made a deposit on a puppy from them. I'm a total newby to the world of pure bred dogs, papers, certificates, etc. Thank you!


It really is the same as in February. Over priced puppies at $950-$1800 for not much value. 

The stud dog only has 1 out of 4 core health certifications. One mother also only has 1 out of 4 core health certifications. The other mother is being bred under age so she can't have hip and elbow certifications and does not have eye or heart certifications. 

For AKC registeration and very sporty/missing certifications, $600 IMHO would be the top of the price for value offer, if of course you are willing to shoulder the higher risk of health issues the lack of health certifications presents. 

If you decide to continue with them, I would suggest health insurance. The comprehensive plans that cove Dysplasia from the start.

I'll include some screen shots below that you might find helpful.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Revival of this thread got me to go look at that Denzil Loveshack dog again... this time I went to the site the owner has a page for him on.
http://www.offa.org/results.html?all=SR56909603 is his OFA page. Note his hips are rated Good. Now look at what his page on the owner's site states: . OFA Hips (Excellent), OFA Elbows Normal. No way it was a simple error, he went to the trouble to put the () on either side of the rating. 
People lie on websites. It amazes me the reasons they give for the lies. But lie they do. This is why verification on OFA is so important, there are no laws to prevent a person from misleading on a website. Insurance on your puppy, Most Recent OP, is a wonderful suggestion.


----------



## hahuston (Jul 5, 2017)

That's all so disappointing, but buyer beware, right? I thought I had asked the right questions, but I'm learning as I go. I will look into pet insurance as you suggested. 

I asked the breeder about the additional certifications. She said she didn't get them done because her dogs hadn't had any problems. I realize that isn't a satisfactory answer, but I appreciate she didn't try to tell me they had been done. I thought I'd mention that in case this thread is revisited in the future.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

It is certainly up to you to decide if you are okay paying likely 2 times what these dogs are worth. 

I just want to put the risk you are taking in perspective. 

When 2 Goldens with normal elbows are bred together, statistically, 12.2% of the offspring will have Elbow Dysplasia (ED). 

When one normal is bred to a Dysplastic dog the rates of effected offspring rises to 26.1-31.3%

When two Dysplastic dogs are bred together statistically 41.5% of the offspring will be Dysplastic. 

Dogs do not have to 'have a problem' to be Dysplastic. I have a girl from generations of health tested ancestors who moves so beautifully she is an American Champion, UKC Champion and and International Champion. From the outside you would never know she is Dysplastic in both elbows and she has never had a lame day in her life. If I did not test and bred her I would increase the chances of Dysplastic puppies by over 200%. If I unknowingly breed her to another asymptotic Dysplastic dog that would increase the risk by nearly 350%

This breeder is deciding not to test and expecting you to pay a premium price and shoulder the risk. The honesty of fessing up after taking money would not soothe my concerns at all. 

Again health insurance would be a great idea with these risky pups. Though should you need it it will not compensate for the emotional toll watching a puppy hurt and struggle to walk brings. Nor does it offset the effort for months of rehabilitation Dysplasia surgeries require. 

Sure you could get lucky and these untested parents could produce a healthy puppy but the odds are not stacked in your favor and you are paying a lot for that risk. 

Whatever you decide we love all puppies here so please start a thread when your little one arrives.


----------



## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

hahuston said:


> *I asked the breeder about the additional certifications. She said she didn't get them done because her dogs hadn't had any problems. I realize that isn't a satisfactory answer*, but I appreciate she didn't try to tell me they had been done. I thought I'd mention that in case this thread is revisited in the future.


Ugh. It's so not. How in the world would she know if the dogs had no problems if she never did the clearances on them? How can a breeder care so little about the pups she is producing that she won't do basic health clearances? She just sends them out into the world to let her families deal with any problems that appear. I just don't get it.


----------



## hahuston (Jul 5, 2017)

Thank you everyone. You've certainly given me a lot to consider. I appreciate your expertise and insight. I've already made the commitment to buy a puppy. Since I didn't do as well as I thought looking for a good breeder, I'd better work harder looking into pet insurance.


----------



## laurie-atyourservice (Nov 17, 2017)

Hi there,

I was looking at her goldens this evening and ran across this string. I would love to know how it worked out for you, how your dog is and if you ever talk to the breeder any more about this? Im looking forward to what you have to say.

Thank you!
Laurie


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Read around and learn what clearances are, why they are useful to you the buyer, and why supporting a breeder who does nothing with their dogs besides use their uteruses is not a good idea for Golden Retrievers...


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

I am not sure if another puppy buyer with a puppy well under a year would be a good reference. This breeder is changing a lot to be off loading health risky puppies. The issues with eyes, hearts, hips and elbows usually don’t rear their ugly head while puppies are just a few months old unless they are catastrophic. 

This breeder is not doing what they should from a health perspective to give you a good chance at health. They should be testing the core 4 of hips, elbows, eyes and hearts. Those are the areas that we can test that Goldens have life threatening health issues. 

Here are what you should be getting from a breeder.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Here is what they are giving you. 
By the way you won’t see a screen shot for Rose because she has absolutely no health certifications.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Honestly, I might take one if they were free but there is little to no value here. A fair price for AKC registered puppies with no other value added things like health certifications or proving these are good goldens in some sort if competitive venue would be maybe $600. 

This is a person who is farming puppies to sell for income with little to no concern for the health of the puppies they produce. It is up to you if you are okay with shouldering the higher health risks of these puppies for an inflated price. Should you go with them I would highly recommend insurance that covers Dysplasia within the first year. Nationwide’s full coverage plan would be one option.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Not sure I would take a free one. There's just nothing there. 
And dogs potentially cost a lot AFTER the purchase price.Especially with the lack of clearances.


----------



## hahuston (Jul 5, 2017)

laurie-atyourservice said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I was looking at her goldens this evening and ran across this string. I would love to know how it worked out for you, how your dog is and if you ever talk to the breeder any more about this? Im looking forward to what you have to say.
> 
> ...


I have a puppy from her. He is 18 weeks old. We adore him. So far, he doesn't seem to have any unusual health issues. He's fighting a UTI right now. His temperment is very sweet and he's wicked smart.

Having said that, if I'd come across this forum before putting any money down on my puppy, I would have steered clear. When Asher was born, there were 2 litters born at the same time with a total of 22 puppies. Just a few months later, two of their other females delivered a combined total of 21 puppies. 43 puppies in approx 3 months is a lot! 

Kim and her husband are very nice, very personable, but I think it would have been worth waiting a few more months to save more money for a puppy with all of his/her health clearances and a breeder who is not just financially invested in breeding dogs, but emotionally invested, too. She's never once checked in on him or us. I emailed her once with an update. She asked me for pictures leaving me feeling like it was more about having another good review on her website. 

Read over this thread in its entirety and consider your purchase carefully.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


----------



## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

laurie-atyourservice said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I was looking at her goldens this evening and ran across this string. I would love to know how it worked out for you, how your dog is and if you ever talk to the breeder any more about this? Im looking forward to what you have to say.
> 
> ...


My take is, it doesn't matter what one dog is like. If we choose to knowingly buy from a puppy mill or an unethical breeder, it's not about whether or not the one dog will be "OK." In my view-- it's about all the other dogs-- the dogs who are being bred endlessly, the dogs who will end up having serious health issues because of lack of testing (or breeding dogs with known issues), etc. That's how I look it-- it's about the "greater good" and ethics.

And sadly, when people focus on "saving" the puppy from the pet store or BYB, the cycle just continues... these people don't care why you are buying a dog from them; they learn no lessons except that they just made a profit from you. But, that's what keeps happening, so the BYB and puppy mills are alive and well.


----------



## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

For their current litters, Polly and Russell only have hips and have a laughable OFA history. Rose has absolutely nothing, even though her littermate sister Jenna has hips done. Makes you wonder if Rose failed but they're breeding her anyway. Oregon really isn't an expensive area. You could certainly find a pet bred golden with full certifications under $1,500.


----------



## Elizabeth A. Paull (Nov 26, 2019)

I think this Kelty's Goldens is awesome. I met someone in my neighborhood who raved highly about them and I have had a wonderful email interaction between the owner Kim and myself. I am planning on getting a puppy from the same litter that the people I met in my neighborhood a few weeks ago back in October 2019. I wish this forum would talk more highly about them. Their website looks great, etc. No complaints from me


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Elizabeth A. Paull said:


> I think this Kelty's Goldens is awesome. I met someone in my neighborhood who raved highly about them and I have had a wonderful email interaction between the owner Kim and myself. I am planning on getting a puppy from the same litter that the people I met in my neighborhood a few weeks ago back in October 2019. I wish this forum would talk more highly about them. Their website looks great, etc. No complaints from me


You do understand that responsible breeders do OFA health testing for Hip, Elbows, eyes, and heart (by a cardiologist), right?
With elbow dysplasia being very expensive to surgically correct and very impactful of quality of life, gambling on it by not testing is a bad idea. Hearts in Goldens have huge inherited issues like Sub-Aortic Stenosis that can cause young health looking dogs to drop dead, hence the Cardiologist needed to certify hearts on parent dogs. Goldens have eye issues that can change at any time so annual exams with a veterinary ophthalmologist are what responsible breeders do. 

When a breeder is not being responsible, it is not reasonable to expect anyone to speak highly about them. 

If you know the risks as a buyer you are taking by using a breeder that is not placing a serious focus on health, that is a good choice for you. I would recommend a full coverage insurance plan for anyone buying from a breeder with this health risk potential. I would make sure it covers dysplasia without an extended wait and carry it for 2-3 years.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

and lest you be thinking something along the lines of, 'any dog can get dysplasia' - it is shown via the years hips and elbows have been being evaluated and breeding choices determined by scoring that there is far less ED and HD than there was when people took the willynilly approach this breeder uses. Anyone can have a good conversation, especially with an uninformed person. Best of luck to you-


----------



## Elizabeth A. Paull (Nov 26, 2019)

This whole entire thread is full of nonsense. None of you have actually researched the breeder etc. I find them pleasant to deal with and trustworthy as well.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Elizabeth A. Paull said:


> This whole entire thread is full of nonsense. None of you have actually researched the breeder etc. I find them pleasant to deal with and trustworthy as well.


If you really want the research, here it is...

Here is the specific tests for responsible breeding - https://www.ofa.org/recommended-tests?breed=GR

Russell - https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1863343 Missing 3 out of 4 of the core health certifications. 
Lockett - https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=2010938 Missing 3 out of 4 of the core health certifications. 
Polly - https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1853518 Missing 3 out of 4 of the core health certifications. 
Rose - https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1935134 Missing 3 out of 4 of the core health certifications. 
Jenna - https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1919264 Missing 3 out of 4 of the core health certifications.

Being pleasant is not the measurement of a good breeder. Most people who are trying to sell you something that nets them over a thousand dollars are going to be responsive and very nice to you. The measure of a breeder is not in their conversation or people skills, it is in the careful breeding decisions they make. When it comes to health, no one has to talk to anyone to see if a breeder is meeting minimum health certification standards. As you can see in the research links above and screen shots below, this breeder does not.


----------



## hahuston (Jul 5, 2017)

Elizabeth A. Paull said:


> This whole entire thread is full of nonsense. None of you have actually researched the breeder etc. I find them pleasant to deal with and trustworthy as well.


Had I done my research before putting money down on my dog, Asher, I would have waited, saved more money and bought from another breeder. They churn out a tremendous amount of puppies every year, certainly enough to be able to afford to do complete health clearances. They are more a puppy mill than a responsible breeder.

If YOU had read this entire thread, you would be more concerned about this breeder. If you don't care about the health and wellness of the dogs they breed or the dog you may buy, that's both sad and fine. It's your choice, but don't put down those people that DO care about these things.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## zkc (Sep 1, 2020)

X


----------



## Margot (Feb 17, 2021)

ArchersMom said:


> Even at $950, these dogs are overpriced. Our local club, in Oregon, has a pet golden breeder whom at least does all clearances and sells her dogs for $1,100-$1,200. I think this is likely their "business."


What breeder in Oregon has Goldens for $1,200? My 10 old Leonberger just died and I lost my 14 year old Goldie 2 years ago. Now my younger Leo needs a new pal. Thanks for any help.


----------



## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Margot said:


> What breeder in Oregon has Goldens for $1,200? My 10 old Leonberger just died and I lost my 14 year old Goldie 2 years ago. Now my younger Leo needs a new pal. Thanks for any help.


Here is the info for the Oregon GR Club-

*OREGON*
*Pacific Rim GRC of Oregon* – Salem OR 15201

You can contact them for a Breeder Referral


----------



## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Unfortunately, that amount is closer to $2,000 today. You won't find a puppy from health tested parents under $1,500. Heck, even irresponsible breeders mating their own 2 pets together with no health testing are charging $2,000!


----------



## Mindquad (Aug 9, 2020)

I performed EXTENSIVE research into any and all breeders in Oregon and let me tell ya, $1,200 isn’t happening. 2,000 is baseline, closer to 2500 during pandemic


----------

