# July2013 Field



## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> A new month!


And an important month as far as dog training goes. We are now only 60 days away from the start of the 2013 Goose Season. It's time to get those retrievers off the couch and into shape. It won't hurt to do some training to help their skills get sharpened up.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

Put this in last month. I figured I move it...

UGH. Long story short of my training last week is: Field training is really frustrating!!! I am thanking my lucky stars that I have really experienced people to train with. We have decided to back waaayyy up with little Ri-butt, at least on marks. Walking singles on land and short water singles. Lots of fun and no pressure. We have moved onto baseball in the yard, which he seems to really like. No swim-by for now. We are heading out to train again tomorrow. We will see how things go.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

We got to do a little steadying work just now before the rain started. We are hoping for some better weather the rest of the week.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

We trained on Friday and Saturday. Lucy is coming along well. We are still on birds and not back on bumpers. But she'll chase any bird any distance. She really likes to work and is so happy to retrieve. We worked on doubles at 50 and 75 yds. Singles at 75 and 100 yds. Her line manners are improving, but she's still not totally steady. She also spends too much time visiting as she's returning. She still wants to check the bucket of birds the gunner has before she returns. She always returns and does a nice hand off though. Her FF training is going very slowly. Show puppies retrieve with style.

I trained Reilly on Saturday. Just singles. He's got such joy when he retrieves. His limping has gotten really bad again. Every day is a gift with Reilly. His sight is going now too. So we'll let him keep retrieving until he drops. In the meantime he's going to have a good time. In the past my dogs in pain were irritable. Not Reilly. Doesn't matter how sore he is, if there are birds to chase he's all about it. His attitude is the best of any dog I've owned.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I've finally gotten around (!) to introducing Tito to the concept of stand alone marks (not sure if that's the right name??).
I put him on a stay at the line. Walk out into the field about 40 or so yards. I will work up to more distance, right now I'm working on the concept. The cover in the field is already about a foot high, so I don't want to make it too hard for now.
I hand throw a double, one to each side of me. Walk back to where he is sitting, then send him for each mark. 
He likes this game. It's a great memory stretcher, because he can't mark off the bird boy (me), I'm no longer in the field. The field has no real factors in it, just cover, so he has to really, really pay attention to where the mark goes down.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

It finally cooled off some here so I managed to get out and do some drill work with Bonnie today--some walk-around blinds, and then a wagon-wheel drill. Have also been working on FF with Wings--she is now reaching forward a foot for the bumper. She is such a goofy that she wiggles her whole body wagging her tails when I tell her she is good!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> I've finally gotten around (!) to introducing Tito to the concept of stand alone marks (not sure if that's the right name??).
> I put him on a stay at the line. Walk out into the field about 40 or so yards. I will work up to more distance, right now I'm working on the concept. The cover in the field is already about a foot high, so I don't want to make it too hard for now.
> I hand throw a double, one to each side of me. Walk back to where he is sitting, then send him for each mark.
> He likes this game. It's a great memory stretcher, because he can't mark off the bird boy (me), I'm no longer in the field. The field has no real factors in it, just cover, so he has to really, really pay attention to where the mark goes down.



If you are still having issues with memory birds I wouldn't do this. You have no way of helping if he has trouble. Not a fan of these kind of walking singles where you walk all the way back to the dog before sending.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I hate to even say this crossfing:crossfing:crossfing) but that issue *seems to be* resolved. 
It has only been a confidence issue, never a memory issue. 
The dog is weird.



K9-Design said:


> If you are still having issues with memory birds I wouldn't do this. You have no way of helping if he has trouble. Not a fan of these kind of walking singles where you walk all the way back to the dog before sending.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Molly had a great day today.. She had been feeling down in the dumps for awhile after FF.. But that all changed today when she got her first live duck. She retrieved it with no problem with the feet shackled. Then they untied the feet and threw it into the pond. Molly never swims after ducks at the lake so I was very surprised that she went after the bird and didn't quit. It would dive and hide in the tall weeds every time Molly got close. Eventually we all lost track of it and nobody knew where it was. Someone brought out their two dogs to hunt up the duck and neither dog could find it.. And suddenly I see Molly pulling the duck out from the tall grass by the bank. Yay!! That's my girl! People were very surprised.. Said she was like a different dog. The switch just flipped on for her. She literally dragged me down to the ground trying to get the bird back when they took it away. She was out of control (in the best way possible). I was thrilled. She really needed that. 

I'm clearly very inexperienced because I had no idea ducks could dive and swim underwater. When I saw the duck dive the first time, I asked, "did it just drown??" LOL


Sent from Petguide.com App


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Not only do they dive and go under, they will sometimes grab a piece of seaweed etc. and stay down.
When Tito goes down after them and doesn't come right back up it STILL kinda freaks me out.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

There is nothing like live-bird therapy....


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Shelly,
I agree. I also have learned that a young dog or puppy should have a live bird. My puppy Lucy has had a live pigeon. She was great, no problems. But her mom is 3 and she just had her first live pigeon and she freaked out and didn't know what to do. She wouldn't pick it up. Her owner is quite upset and not sure how to proceed. Being able to pick up a live bird is super important. But waiting until age 3 for a live bird can be a bit of a problem. I'm happy to be past that.

Finally getting somewhere on FF. Now the little princess thinks that all things should be picked up and carried around if I tell her. I never thought I'd get here. Now we need to get better on re-call.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

I personally did not think Molly would like the duck THAT much.. She just didn't seem to have much drive, and like I said she never chased ducks at the lake (although she does chase them on land). I really did not think she would keep working to catch that duck. I was very happy to see that switch turn on and I am really hoping some of that will carry over to bumpers and dokkens. She likes the cold dead birds too but she has only had those one time after being FF and I messed up during that session.. 


Sent from Petguide.com App


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

I like stand-alones for a more advanced dog--I find they help to build that confidence with remembering the mark in the context of the landscape, and that focused steadiness. But in moderation!

I also like Carol Cassity's "Where's Waldo" drill for building confidence on memory birds, so that is another one to try if you have her drill book.

Another drill we sometimes do if we have a group out is something called Organized Confusion. Depending on how many people we have we will use 2-4 gunners. Each gunner throws 2-3 marks (2 each with 3 or 4 gunners, 3 each with 2 gunners), so you can get 6-8 marks on it. When you initially see the gunners, it looks a bit like an ABCD drill. And if we have fewer gunners we will put out stickmen. What makes it "organized confusion" is that the gunners move between 2-3 throwing stations, and they do so while the dog is on the way to the mark. Sometimes they walk away from the mark, sometimes they walk across in front of it, sometimes they walk in from it or deep of it. The dogs have to learn to ignore the migrating gunner and focus on the mark. The gunners only migrate for advanced dogs. With younger dogs, who have less experience, we leave the gunners stationary until the mark is picked up, like a regular ABCD drill. It is amazing how a few sessions of this drill spread over a few weeks will teach a dog to ignore distractions in the field.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks Shelly, I do have Carol's book and I LOVE it. It's excellent!
I started doing the stand alones because I seem to BE alone all the time. The organized confusion sounds good, but would require several helpers.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

It's pretty hot today. My training group may have lost the property we have been training on. Buffy and I went to the baseball fields and worked on some steadiness drills. We then worked on some blinds. We will do some obedience in the afternoon.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

gdgli said:


> It's pretty hot today. My training group may have lost the property we have been training on.


Ohh, that sucks! Getting training grounds has to be one of the biggest obstacles to moving forward in this sport....


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

gdgli said:


> It's pretty hot today. My training group may have lost the property we have been training on. Buffy and I went to the baseball fields and worked on some steadiness drills. We then worked on some blinds. We will do some obedience in the afternoon.


GDG, it was soooo nice to meet you this weekend!
I'm sorry to hear about your grounds. Are they trying to protect the rare and endangered earthworm or something?
Happy training and I will see you again someday.


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

Woo-wee it's hot! We haven't trained much, too hot for land, Gladys just got over being in season, so she was out of the water for 3 weeks!

When we started back up again, she broke twice and forgot what "dead bird" means!! It bummed me out b/c she was running like a top before going into season ~AND~ I had already entered her in 2 tests so needed to fix it fast.

Soo .. we did some water work last Tuesday at group. Later we did a short land singles marking series. Gladys broke on the last bird, so I got to correct her and go pick up the bird myself. It seemed to do the trick, b/c we tried a very short breaking bird later in the week and she was steady again. We did lots of handling drills, walking baseball, walking right and left back, "run by" on a short field close to home in the evenings. It was way way way to hot for the pattern blind field, that would have been helpful with "dead bird" although we did do some short cold blinds.

We went to WRC HT this weekend and rode the rollercoaster for 2 days. We got to meet the delightful gdgny whom Gladys gave an enormous hug! OMG it was so sweet!

So .. the tests. It wasn't perfect. Everyone made mistakes, but we kept it together, picked up all the birds, and managed enough pencil power for 2 more legs -> title.

I was almost in tears at the end after enduring 2 days of HT rollercoaster including 2 honors plus the following:
Day One: a no bird, me letting Gladys get out of my sight on the land blind, a diving flyer in water which earned Gladys extra points in the style and perserverance dept, a stuttering water blind (exacerbated by dry shot from behind tree on land, convincing Gladys dead bird behind tree on land, instead of in the water)

Day 2: flyer landing pretty close to the line to the land blind, Gladys picking up the memory bird first then fixating on the flyer station then faking me out by going directly to the bird, then no go to the land blind exacerbated by flyer placement, confusion and continued fixation on the flyer station, judges warning about no go rule but it was my fault not the dogs so I would get a second chance, but there better be some action on the water blind ... Gladys needing to be handled on the water memory (exacerbated by her flyer landing in the most middle of the thickest lily pads, taking the circuitous route back, and stopping to pee in the water no doubt). She hunted forever, got out of the water, then I saw her start to pick up speed toward the flyer station and remembered that $70 lesson we learned a few weeks ago. I managed to get her to the area of the bird. The judges said I had to stay on the whistle and handle her all the way to the bird; problem: I had no clue exactly where it was in all that junk. 

The last series, Gladys taking a million years to find her supposedly easy last water mark (again landing in the junk instead of the open water where it was supposed to). 

By water blind time, I was so close to snapping, I wouldn't have cared if I fell off a cliff. I had watched the pros dog no go on the blind .. and I already had my warning. I did what the judge suggested and heeled her on the line to the blind, said "dead bird", and thank God she looked at something .... "BACK!" and she jumped in with a mighty splash, creating a huge wake. She took the straightest line of anyone I had seen. I had to direct her at the end, of course giving an incorrect cast which I knew the second I did it, and of course dog skool teecher later pointed out I was too slow on the whistle and had some refusals at the end. But we did the best water blind I saw.

So ... dog skool teecher said "congratulations, guess you'll be doing triples now with the rest of us" or something along those lines. 

So .. I guess I'll keep doing the same stuff and start on Master for Dummies.
I have to write some letters to landowners with ponds in my neighborhood so I can get permission to use a good close swim by pond. Run by isn't going to cut it anymore. Got my work cut out for me.

Gladys was awesome, she was really tired yesterday.

EDITED TO ADD: This is in no way shape or form to complain about the tests, the gunners or the judges or anything - just the stress rollercoaster of running your dog and dealing w/ all the surprises that pop us as we all go along. ****** God bless all volunteers ********


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

Oh I forgot I asked dog skool teecher about the concept of picking a spot where I allow the dog to get out of the water. 
Answer: No! You handle to the blind. 
I knew that. LOL


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I'll trade some of your heat for some of my mosquitos! I'm so sick of them. The dogs noses are all knotted up when they've been outside in the yard for 10 minutes. I thought the super hard winter we had last year would kill them back some, but no go. Good thing we don't have nile virus or lyme disease or any of the other nasty things you all face down there. I talked to someone the other day that started using Advantix to attempt to keep the darns mosquitos off her dogs. She thought it had some effect. But we don't have fleas or ticks, so I'm having a hard time rationalizing that much chemicals for mosquitos. Anyone else out there use Advantix for only that purpose?

Loosing places to train is really tough. I was happy to score a new one earlier this year, but it doesn't have any water.

Boomer,
I appreciate that heat cycle. For the month of May we were not allowed to train per Lucy's show handler. She didn't want Lucy to hear the word sit all month. So no training for her. It took forever to get her back on track. Now we're waiting for her first heat cycle, she's 12 months old now. Plus she lost to her sister at the dog shows, so there was no gain to her not hearing the word sit for a month. Last month Lucy's sister won a 5 pt show. So guess we'll be sitting out that game until her sister is finished.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Boomers, congratulations on the title!!! Way to go!!

Alaska, I know you can't go against your show handler but I've always said that's a bunch of BS, dogs are so situational they can be taught to do different things in different places. Heck, we often literally RAN from the breed ring to the obedience ring (working on our UDX none-the-less) or vice versa. Didn't even bother to change collars. It really doesn't matter.

My field trainer says the only people who say you can't train two or more venues at once are lousy trainers!


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

It was a pleasure meeting boomers dawn. I was greeted by Gladys with a very warm welcome. She is a real charmer!

I was shooting flyers at JH and unfortunately did not get to see Gladys run. I do want to say that it was so hot this past weekend. On Saturday, I did not drink enough water (3 bottles) and by the end of the day I was really hurting even though we set up an umbrella at our station which we went under after each shot. On Sunday (shooting again) I made sure that I did things differently. I drank 2 bottles of water before we even started and drank several bottles of water plus 2 bottles of Gatorade during the event.

I know that Buffy would certainly have had a problem had I run her. I must get one of those Ryobi fans that several handlers had.

Anyway, Westchester RC treated us nicely. My friend and I traveled quite a ways to gun this event and it is nice to feel appreciated.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> Alaska, I know you can't go against your show handler but I've always said that's a bunch of BS, dogs are so situational they can be taught to do different things in different places. Heck, we often literally RAN from the breed ring to the obedience ring (working on our UDX none-the-less) or vice versa. Didn't even bother to change collars. It really doesn't matter.
> 
> My field trainer says the only people who say you can't train two or more venues at once are lousy trainers!


ABSOLUTELY!!! We go from field training right to obedience class. Riot hasn't tried to auto finish in class yet, while he always auto-finishes in the field. I think that handler is just silly.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

boomers_dawn said:


> Woo-wee it's hot! We haven't trained much, too hot for land, Gladys just got over being in season, so she was out of the water for 3 weeks!
> 
> When we started back up again, she broke twice and forgot what "dead bird" means!! It bummed me out b/c she was running like a top before going into season ~AND~ I had already entered her in 2 tests so needed to fix it fast.
> 
> ...


Did I see something about a SENIOR TITLE?????
WOOHOO CONGRADS!
Talk about burying the lead.....


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I'm sorry did I miss the new SH title? Congratulations!!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Congratulations ! Bet you were awesome and to do that well in the heat is even more impressive. Ummm, pictures?


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

I'll post a pic soon, I should be getting ready for puppy klass.

I just wanted to pop back and say Gladys brought me my hat out of my training bag when I got home from work. I think she was saying, "don't go to work, let's go Hunt Testing every day".

It was really hot. I worked both days too b/c I'm a club member, but not like the gunners who at least in Senior, shot at both land and water, aka ALL DAY. It was brutal.

Gladys loves a flapper. She never had a diver before. She loved it. I was a little worried the judges would tell me to call her back and I knew she would never come in. Just recently she was chasing geese and wouldn't come in. Dummy me said she wouldn't need the collar. Duh.

Alaska, we have mosquitos bad here too .. b/c it rained so much. Everything is all wet and mushy. I have about 4 red dots across my forehead to show for the mosquitos. 

Off to puppy class, be back soon w/ awesome pix.


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

We went to our Tues a.m. group I take time off work for when I can.
It was a bit of a disaster. They did long marks through a bunch of junk and in and outs. Gladys has done a lot of this at our other groups training, but these distances were further. One of her marks was a bumper that bounced under the water and popped back up covered by a bunch of weeds. You couldn't see anything other than a big lump of weeds. Gladys got confused and went off to land to look for whatever she thought she was supposed to be looking for. She wouldn't sit on the whistle for that or the longer blinds we did, because the distance is increased. She sits on the whistle good closer, but these increased distances need work. Ugh.

The fun part of the day: I put on waders in 89 degree heat and got Dee Dee in the water. I teased her with a bumper and she splashed in and did the puppy paddle a few times. She wasn't into long swims yet, but she didn't want to get out of the water. It was a lot of fun. I've been so focused on Gladys I haven't worked with Dee Dee much. We need to start a) wearing the dummy collar, b) do our over and back with the treats trick, and c) start the hold and out process.

Will post pic of Gladys in a different thread. Happy training to all, stay cool.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

boomers dawn

I hope that you have breathable waders. They are absolutely the best, good for different seasons, and are great to wear in a wet field as well as goose hunting in a field.


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

I don't think they were breathable, I'm pretty sure they're made for winter duck hunting. I don't remember why I got them, since I have zero intention of going winter duck hunting. It must have been for fishing.
The instructions said they work best with wool socks and layers. I had little cotton socks and shorts on, all wet from water work.
The waders were all sweaty and I had to roll them off. 
The things we do for our dogs!


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

I need to get a pair of those breathable waders as well. My waders were bought for hunting in the fall--they are neoprene, and WARM!! I wore them standing in a pond to throw a mark at our hunt test a month ago, and even though it was not super hot out I was still steaming!!


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

sterregold said:


> I need to get a pair of those breathable waders as well. My waders were bought for hunting in the fall--they are neoprene, and WARM!! I wore them standing in a pond to throw a mark at our hunt test a month ago, and even though it was not super hot out I was still steaming!!


I don't get any condensation in my breathables, only in the boots which are rubber and obviously not breathable. I wear them year round. I tried wearing the breathables while duckhunting in Great South Bay in January. They were great! Just dress a little warmer.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

They are making some very nice breathable chest waders for women. The brand I wear is Simms with Patagonia wading boots. I about live in them in the summer and fall they have so many uses. I wear alpaca socks and wool leggings underneath. They are super comfortable. Make sure to save the patch kit just in case. I gave away my neoprenes years ago. Also avoid the felt soles on boots, most places they are illegal now. Sometimes you see cheap setups with felt to sell to the unknowing.


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

OMG it is too hot to think about alpaca socks and wool leggings!

I have lots of homework this week: 
~our group leader from Tues group gave me homework: work on whistle sit
~me and dog skool teecher both decided to work on lining drills since neither of our dogs carries a line too far

Dee Dee - puppy school homework, sit/down/stay/heel/ come when called, etc.
~wear the dummy collar
~start the hold/out process
~over and back with treats

So today we did lining drills with Gladys and put the dummy collar on Dee Dee and I got the equipment out of the closet for hold/out.

No big stuff going on for this week, just continue bits and pieces of these projects.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Alaska7133 said:


> They are making some very nice breathable chest waders for women. The brand I wear is Simms with Patagonia wading boots. I about live in them in the summer and fall they have so many uses. I wear alpaca socks and wool leggings underneath. They are super comfortable. Make sure to save the patch kit just in case. I gave away my neoprenes years ago. Also avoid the felt soles on boots, most places they are illegal now. Sometimes you see cheap setups with felt to sell to the unknowing.


I love my neoprenes for hunting in the late fall. Some of the places we hunt I can be standing in just above freezing water for hours, so I appreciate their warmth. I do not generally buy women's hunting clothing--I am glad they are finally making more of it, but it just does not fit me as I am 5'10" and most of the time, the arms and legs on stuff made for women are too short for me. I just buy a men's small and they usually fit.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

That's what I thought about the neoprene being warmer. Our water is mostly glacial run off, so it's super cold. But I've found that the breathables do just fine even when I stand in the ocean for hours dip netting. One important factor to consider is they are flexible, must more so than neoprene. So to me that's pretty important. I can always add layers of wool, which here we wear all summer underneath. I feel safer when I'm more flexible especially when the waves come crashing at you in the ocean or we are rafting down a river. I'm into being comfortable especially if I'm living in a tent for a few days.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

We finally had a break in the weather, so for the first time in a couple of weeks it is not hot and muggy out. I went and did some momentum and confidence work with Bonnie this morning. I think I was getting out of balance in her blind work, trying to demand too precise initial lines for where she is at in her training and I was starting to get some bugging on line. So I went out and seeded a soccer field with bumpers this morning and just did a bunch of look-out-and-send blinds where she was bound to run into a bumper when she went. Happier girl by the end of five sends. Going to do this a few more times.

Then did some FF work with Wings. Got her as far as taking the bumper with one end on the ground today. She is progressing!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Shelly,
do you ever put out decoys to distract them or say a bucket of dead birds when you throw bumpers or birds? When you FF train do you have say treats on the ground near by to get them distracted? Just curious how much you use distractions since you mention in your last post.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

I do not throw anything during FF. It is yard work and done under a controlled setting. I do not get creative with FF. Just standard sequential development as described in the Lardy or Loveland materials. I want to build on that commitment to work through PRESSURE not distraction. When we get to walking fetch I will have a mix of retrieve items out, including both birds and bumpers. There we will deal with distraction in that I may walk past a bird on one pass and require the dog to pick up a bumper--they have to fetch on command, not when they see something they want.

When we are in the field, working on marks, and big dogs are working on cold blinds then we do use decoys and such since they will be a feature of both tests and hunting.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

We got to Dan's today, and had a great time. Did some water blinds, then some land marks and blinds. Worked on up the hill, and then falls OVER the hill. The Monster did a good job.
One thing that happened, though....the bird boy planted a pigeon for a water blind. It was in the heavy cover up on the shore.
Well, when Tito got there....he FLUSHED the bird!! We had thought it was pretty well dead. Apparently not, just stunned. So it flew off. 
Tito did sit on the flush. Which was pretty funny. Luckily the bird boy thought fast, and raced over with another bird.
edit to add...the look on Tito's face was priceless. You could just hear him thinking, "this is a trick question, right??"


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

Poor monster boy. Good preparation for the real test where there will be more pop quizzes and trick questions LOL.

I did something different and fun with Dee Dee today. 
Did anyone get GR News? There was a short article by Bill Hillman about taking your puppy for a walk in the woods to bond and kind of travel together side by side. He mentioned to expose the puppy to different kinds of cover on the walk. I don't remember anything else, my brain is full from work.

Anyway, training Dee Dee has been all about dog skool homework or puppy bumpers with lots of running and bumper throwing on my part to get her back, so it was really refreshing to do something FUN that didn't seem like too much work and aggravation.

I think we really did bond. Dee Dee does a lot of looking to see where I am. One time she blew around the corner so I hid behind a tree. It was kinda cute how fast and frantic she raced back, blew by me and got out of sight the other way, then doubled back double frantic. It was cute how relieved she was to see me. I learned that trick from dog skool teecher.

I took Dee Dee through some really high grass, lots of poison ivy (by accident):bawling: , the woods, gravel, across a brook .. it was wonderful.
We will definitely be doing more of that!

I'll do some light and easy sit whistles with Gladys later and throw the dokken for Boomer.

No big plans for the weekend. Nice! 
Stay cool! (or warm in the water in Alaska).


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I took Buffy to a new field, one that I had scouted a year ago. I do live in the city and this is stealth training. This field is about 400 yds. x 400 yds. with cover at one end. We did some lining and casting drills and had a great time exploring!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

does anyone get Gun Dog magazine? There's an article in there (august issue) I'd like to see.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> does anyone get Gun Dog magazine? There's an article in there (august issue) I'd like to see.


I think I may have seen it online, Lorie Jolly, Dana Oaks and one other man who escapes me were interviewed....
Some months ago I was interviewed and sent in pictures for what I thought was the same magazine for a similar article, so not sure if it's different or I just didn't "make the cut"....


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

If it's the same issue, that "other man" is Dan.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

No it wasn't Dan, I would have recognized his name and it DEFINITELY wasn't him in the picture!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

LOLOL, he *is* pretty easy on the eyes  .


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

we were going to go to the cabin 4th of July weekend - didn't make it, then, this weekend and with all the heavy rains postponed again. She still stinks a bit like a skunk - especially with all the humidity outside. I can't wait to get back there were we are able to shoot the guns - I am a little concerned that the fireworks could have made her a bit spooky (just a concern - I do not know for sure, she was never phased by the thunder so I can't equate that). She took it pretty well considering that they were right by our house on the golf course. She wanted to run but she was still curious and would go to the window to see them, then she would back up slightly but come right back again. I wish I could go in the back yard but due to neighbors who have no clue about the difference between a cap gun and a real gun even if put under their eyes I can't. 
Meanwhile, we took her to the local park where there is a little pond and she swam for the first time, she crossed the pond twice. Both times I was on the other side of the pond and the moment I walked out of the pond she swam straight back to me. We will try again without me as "bait".


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Got out to our lot to train today. I got permission from a local property owner to train on an undeveloped 9 acre parcel. It's mostly flat with willows at one end. Due to 20 hours of daylight right now the grass is super high! So it's deeper cover than Lucy needs right now but you get what you can. Nobody else uses the lot so it doesn't get beat down. The soils aren't level so mowing would be impossible. I ran Lucy and Reilly today. Reilly is soooo sweet. He just gets so excited and pops his jaws and just shakes every time he runs. This time his excitement was a little more than anticipated. Every time he picked up the bird, he'd toss it in the air and catch it his mouth and run back to me as fast as he could. We only ran him on singles. Lucy ran doubles. She did just fine. We were using pigeons. The only other dog was a field trial puppy. He was so amazingly fast you can really see the difference in breeding. It was 76 degrees and sunny. So we quit after an hour so the dogs wouldn't overheat. We're just amazed at how hot this summer is!

This weekend is NAHRA hunt tests Saturday and Sunday. Running little Lucy both days. Have our paws crossed to pass both days. She will 13 months old this weekend. Signed up for a doubleheader AKC hunt test next month.


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

I took Dee Dee back out for a walk in the woods today. When we started out she seemed timid. Probably because everything at home is "eh" "leave it" "drop it" "no" "sit" "off" etc etc.

I again encouraged her off the beaten path with me, into high grass and cover, the woods, down steep banks, into the brook and rocky stream. I didn't particularly want her in the mucky swamp, but eventually she got the zooms and peeled back and forth through it several times. And once at the end for good measure. We worked on come when called and she did it with increasing speeds. She seemed happier and more confident by the end of our walk. She's a good girl.

Taking Gladys out in a few minutes to do some drills. Have a good weekend all, stay cool. Alaska good luck at NAHRA!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Boomer,
you might try getting out on the trails with your mountain bike once your pup gets a little bigger. We cover lots of miles and the dogs get lots of continuous miles when we are on our bikes. They have great stamina that way. I normally take them as a group. We go for off leash run/walks several times a week. I think walking in the brush, leeping over logs, swimming in fast creeks and generally being a dog is so important. They get so much more sure of themselves. We always take the whole crew. The pups learn from the older dogs and they re-call is so much easier. We also teach group heeling with the whole crew at one time.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Had a good afternoon of training today at a wonderful 10 acre pond. Breeze got to do two huge water blinds on bumpers that got carried away down the pond by the wind. We got in two set-ups of three marks each for all of the dogs and did some different stuff to work on their marking--a couple of marks thrown into cover up on a bank so they had to swim and then get out on the far side to find the bumper, a couple of out-to-sea marks, and some breaker-over-the-shoulder marks.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Today was the NAHRA hunt test. Lucy ran as a started dog. It's 3 singles (2 dead birds, 1 fresh kill) and 2 singles on water. There were 19 started dogs. All distances were between 50 and 75 yards. 

Lucy was excellent on the field portion. All the distances were shorter than she normally runs and there wasn't as much cover. So she did everything with speed and immediate re-calls. No stopping to check the gunners on the way back, no distraction of the decoys. She was picture perfect. So we got a call back to the water portion. Most dogs failed the field. Many were handled by "pros". What a surprise.

Lucy failed the water. There were the usual 2 gunners. But the brush on the lake was super high and she couldn't see the gunners at all, they were hidden. So I didn't quite know what to have her mark on. When the duck came flying and the gun shot came, she didn't know where to look. I thought I have her positioned well, but I didn't. She missed it completely. She entered the water on cue, but she kind of just paddled around not knowing what to do. So after a minute someone walked down to the gunner station and threw rocks from there to the bird. Then she saw the bird and light went on. She went right for the bird and returned not to me, but to the gunner and cheated by running on the dirt road back to me. She gave me the bird nicely, then turned and jumped back in the water. She refused to come back. She swam back to where the bird had been and eventually she came back to me after quite a bit of time. It was very hot and I think she just didn't want to get out. So I declined the next bird. Tomorrow is another day, we'll see how she does then. It was 75 degrees, much to hot for Alaska dogs! I really can't blame her extra swim, we were the last dog of the day and it was very hot.

It was fun. Lucy is a very good girl. We practiced obedience before and after the event. We did sit stays and re-calls. In the field portion her re-calls were perfect. 

Lucy absolutely has the drive and smarts to do it. Now I just need to figure out how to make it happen.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Alaska

How are you training Lucy for this type of test?

Use this for information as to what your dog needs. Hidden gunners (behind trees, brush etc., not blinds), keying into gunshots and the splash of birds, and running through high cover at the shoreline of a pond. Set up your training for success progressing from simple to more difficult over several sessions, i.e. train rather than test.

From what you describe of Lucy, she shouldn't have a problem. She just needs a little practice with this scenario.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Sounds like the test was fun, and revealing as to what you need to train on.
I'm not familiar with the NAHRA tests, but I do think that's one of the hardest things in HRC tests....no noise in the field, just a bird suddenly appearing. If the dog isn't focused hard on the field, especially on a multiple, they miss it. Dogs who train to run HRC tune in to the winger noise, and/or know to look out. Dogs who are used to AKC find it much harder, because they are used to all the noise and commotion in the field. IMO, anyway!
Going to be too hot here to do anything this week. Heat indices over 100 pretty much every day.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

CFHRC had their monthly training day yesterday at Betsy's in Palatka. I've posted pictures of her ponds before, they are unbelievable. I took Slater, Bally and Mom came with Harvin. 
They had two very long and difficult marks set up all the way across the ponds, and one relatively easy water blind (well, compared with the marks). Slater up first, I ran the two marks as singles and he did a really nice job. Perfect on the first one, the second one which was over 3 fingers and rather cheaty, he took a perfect line until over the last point, where he was hugging the shore, and I don't even know who the gunner was but their timing was excellent and they pitched another bumper which put Slater on exactly the right path -- woohoo! He two-whistled the blind. NOT training seems to work really well for my dogs! LOL 
Harvin next, we walked up to the next-to-last finger so he only had to go over one point on the first mark, and just open swimming on the second, he hasn't trained in ages. The dog before him was a pretty little show golden who would NOT get in the water so I'm thinking, oh Harv you gotta do it....well he did PERFECT! Mom was very happy.
Then Bally up next (who will be 6 months next week), he did 3 baby marks all about 35 yards, one next to and past a decoy, another up on the land and a third he had to swim through a bunch of floaty junk in the water. Yay puppy!
Fun time, glad we went.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Stacy, 
As gdgli said, hidden guns etc are a key feature in hunt tests. It is something the dogs have to learn to deal with. If your training group thus far has only been doing marks with visible gunners, then you need to start adding in those variations so that the dogs are prepared when they encounter them in a test.

Also, help your dog to be successful as much as possible. Point your toes where the mark will land. Ensure the dog is lined up squarely beside you so that head and spine are aligned with the fall--as the dog will be more likely to launch in the correct direction. Do not call for the bird until you have the dog focused out in the fiel--you can teach this in training by teaching cue words to get the dog to focus--ie "Mark" to let them know there is going to be a mark, and "Good" when they are focused int he correct direction. Only then should you wave for the mark to be thrown! As well, once the judges release the dog, you do not need to send immediately--this is a mistake I see beginners make frequently when I am judging. We release the dog, the dog turns its head for some reason, and the handler sends the dog! Once you are released you are free to talk to the dog again, so if the dog is not intent on the mark, you can refocus them before sending. You can build that focus in training by not sending to quickly--require the dog to focus on the mark for a couple of seconds after it hits the ground. You can start teaching that with shorter marks that are easy to see in the fall area. You should be watching your dog not where the mark lands (as you should have seen the falls with test dog--the flyer is the one exceptions--take a peek out the corner of your eye where it lands). You need to watch the dog for the signs that they have seen the mark (ears perked, neck stretched, etc) and remain focused on it.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

K9-Design said:


> NOT training seems to work really well for my dogs! LOL .


What is it with that!?! Breeze did her first water triple in forever on Friday. We have not been doing much at all with the end of the school year and being away at the show, and she just went out and did it!! We had been having such issues with memory birds, especially on water. If only I could see what goes on in their heads....


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

sterregold said:


> What is it with that!?! Breeze did her first water triple in forever on Friday. We have not been doing much at all with the end of the school year and being away at the show, and she just went out and did it!! We had been having such issues with memory birds, especially on water. If only I could see what goes on in their heads....


I sometimes think that a dog will "sleep on it" and come back having acquired the skill that I was busting my a__ to teach.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

gdgli said:


> I sometimes think that a dog will "sleep on it" and come back having acquired the skill that I was busting my a__ to teach.


Yeah, Jim Drager and I have talked about this a bit. We may be over-training our dogs when we go out and do a marking setup or a drill with a lesson in it every day. We may not be giving them the down-time they need to internalize the lesson.

Now with Breeze, the issue is not learning new stuff, but her getting her zip and confidence back after her busted tooth and surgery last year. It has just been lots of marks and confidence building with her this spring, and I think the lay-off may have whetted her enthusiasm a bit!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

If not training makes for success, Tito is going to be BRILLIANT by September!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

This is a view of the water we were retrieving in today. It is a peat bog. Very mucky with a little water on top. Really ugly. Several people pulled their dogs. The bog is surrounded by high banks. Tough to get out of the muck. 

So we went for it. This time the gunners were obvious. But Lucy cheated and ran along the bank before entering the water. She couldn't find the bird. They threw rocks for her, but she just couldn't see throught the clumps of grass. Pretty tough. She tried really hard and kept paddling around forever. Finally called her out. Didn't try for a second bird. She was black when she came out of the water, a true swamp collie. 

Our training on water has been bumpers on ponds or lakes with a clear edge, sand or low grass. Nothing difficult. Now I know what to work on. We use bumpers no dead ducks. All our ducks are very old, so they would be terrible sinkers. Now I need to find a better place that fits our needs. Considering Lucy just learned to swim last month (everything was frozen) I think she did pretty well.

Next month is another NAHRA hunt test double header. We will go again. Lucy does extremely well with ducks that are still alive and flapping at her. Not bad for a show puppy!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

WOW looks like a really cool pond!!! Better luck next time


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Alaska7133 said:


> This is a view of the water we were retrieving in today. It is a peat bog. Very mucky with a little water on top. Really ugly. Several people pulled their dogs. The bog is surrounded by high banks. Tough to get out of the muck.
> 
> So we went for it. This time the gunners were obvious. But Lucy cheated and ran along the bank before entering the water. She couldn't find the bird. They threw rocks for her, but she just couldn't see throught the clumps of grass. Pretty tough. She tried really hard and kept paddling around forever. Finally called her out. Didn't try for a second bird. She was black when she came out of the water, a true swamp collie.
> 
> ...


I dry my birds in my workshop with a dehumidifier running. Then wrap the birds in newspaper, put them in the freezer. They keep quite well. I thaw them, get them to room temp, use them, then chill them as soon as I am done.

Work from shoreline, then progress back. 

I would like to hunt that pond. Have gun, will travel.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

We're still hanging in there and working on stuff. It seems to be slow going right now. 

Land she is pretty solid. On water I have been throw really big singles to trying and stretch her out. She has picked up every one. However, at this point I'm not sure if it is the length of the mark that is causing her to pop or just the triple itself. I haven't been running many multiples in training lately but yesterday we did run one. The marks went down right, left, middle. The outside marks were pretty easy and the middle mark was definitely more technical. She picked the middle mark just find, but wanted help on the easy right mark, then picked up the left mark with no help. In thinking back I think I may have skipped over the building the triple in water phase. She probably did it once and I figured we were good. My new plan is to set up a few short easy confidence building triples and go from there. 
We are working on Master type water blinds. I can get her to anything but it is not always pretty. Last week we ran one that angled into a peninsula and she had to take an angled back off of it and then hold that angle into the shore. I had a heck of a time getting her to take the angle back off of the peninsula. She wanted to square it off. We worked it out and when I did it again she lined it. I will go back this week and repeat it. That describes where we're at in water blinds. If she can square it she understands now I'm teaching her to see the angled pictures.

I was thinking about running a Master toward the end of summer. Considering I can't seem to get through a 2 series Finished test without a handle we will probably wait until next year. Of coarse I'm always hopeful that the light will come on and all the water blind work will pay off.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Alaska7133 said:


> This is a view of the water we were retrieving in today. It is a peat bog. Very mucky with a little water on top. Really ugly. Several people pulled their dogs. The bog is surrounded by high banks. Tough to get out of the muck.
> 
> So we went for it. This time the gunners were obvious. But Lucy cheated and ran along the bank before entering the water. She couldn't find the bird. They threw rocks for her, but she just couldn't see throught the clumps of grass. Pretty tough. She tried really hard and kept paddling around forever. Finally called her out. Didn't try for a second bird. She was black when she came out of the water, a true swamp collie.
> 
> ...


You can get solid black bumpers. I use these more often when we are getting ready for tests as they look more like a duck in the water. You don't want to use them when teaching dogs to swim longer, as then the white target helps with confidence, but once they are going well, the darker bumpers can be a good tool for getting that confidence with a less obvious target if you do not have easy access to birds.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

sterregold said:


> You can get solid black bumpers. I use these more often when we are getting ready for tests as they look more like a duck in the water. You don't want to use them when teaching dogs to swim longer, as then the white target helps with confidence, but once they are going well, the darker bumpers can be a good tool for getting that confidence with a less obvious target if you do not have easy access to birds.


Yup there was a time when orange bumpers with streamers were a useful item in my training box. Fisher was having trouble on memory birds in the water he couldn't SEE (i.e. white bumpers). This was before we ran Senior. I used orange bumpers with black & white streamers for memory birds in the water. Got him away from relying on vision to remember a mark.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

We are still out of training commission with the heat....


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

About the same type of weather here. It gets dark before it gets cool.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

same here, Shelly. We are going housebound.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Ha, you don't want to know what its like here in Anchorage. Sunday's hunt test was a comfortable 60F (15C). We were wearing shorts and t-shirts, the judges from the states were wearing heavy coats. It's all in what you get used to. But hey I can't complain, Fairbanks goes from -60F (-51C) to 85F (32C) from one season to the next. Too extreme for me.

I did notice something at the hunt tests this weekend about some of the pros. Some pros ran the dogs FOR their owners and some pro trained dogs were run BY the owners. I'm interested to hear opinions on this. Why or why not? In both cases the owners were at the hunt test.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Sometimes the dog will run better for the pro if the pro has done most/all of the training. Sometimes people want the pro to train the dog, but then they work with the pro on the handling so that they, themselves, can run the dog in tests. It's all in what the owner's goals are. 
I run Tito in AKC, but I have Dan run him in HRC, because of the gun. I don't need my dog failing a test because I can't remember gun safety.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Bragsies!!! Okay second hand, but I bred him so I get o brag on him: Breeze's son/Bonnie's litter-brother Baron got his first AKC MH pass over the weekend at the Central NY hunt tests at Baldwinsville NY. He will not even be three until October. So proud of him and his other mom, O/H/T Susan Roberts of Lynwood Goldens.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

sterregold said:


> Bragsies!!! Okay second hand, but I bred him so I get o brag on him: Breeze's son/Bonnie's litter-brother Baron got his first AKC MH pass over the weekend at the Central NY hunt tests at Baldwinsville NY. He will not even be three until October. So proud of him and his other mom, O/H/T Susan Roberts of Lynwood Goldens.


That's awesome! Congratulations!
Brag on!!! 

FTGoldens


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

How wonderful!!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

That's just awesome Shelly!!! Congratulations, looking forward to more brags, too!


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Too hot to train yesterday but we did work on some obedience inside the house. New stuff from obedience class, new drills---bucket fronts, send around a cone (Fly). 

I don't like to waste a day.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Congratulations to you and Breeze! A Master pass at 2! Go team Baron.




sterregold said:


> Bragsies!!! Okay second hand, but I bred him so I get o brag on him: Breeze's son/Bonnie's litter-brother Baron got his first AKC MH pass over the weekend at the Central NY hunt tests at Baldwinsville NY. He will not even be three until October. So proud of him and his other mom, O/H/T Susan Roberts of Lynwood Goldens.


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

Too hot to train here too, heat wave in the 90s past few days.
Gladys hasn't done anything. Dee Dee's working on hold and learned how to swim but the pond she went in was like a hot tub, I mean literally hot water; so no more of that till it cools off.
I think temps are breaking back into the 80s after tomorrow, prob go to tues group, Gladys will like that. 
I heard 2 dogs drowned in the heavy lily pads this year too, I was shocked but I can see how it would happen, dogs get tired and they get tangled in that thick crap.
Stay safe everyone.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Hey Y'all! Not much new stuff. Just training and training. Kat is doing really well and I think I might have figured out what works with Peaches. It has been so much fun. We are up at 5 am and working til 1030 or so before it gets hot. Then we lay around all afternoon, ha ha. It rained and rained here so hopefully it will dry up a bit. It rained 40+ days straight! nuts!


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

We had a training day followed by the gun dog stakes. It was hot. I shot flyers during the training and during the gun dog stakes.

Buffy did well. And she got third place in Intermediate gun dog. We had fun.

I also got to use my O2Cool fans.

I am avoiding entering hunt tests during these hot summer days. Buffy really wilts in the heat.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Can someone please remind me why I despise parks and dogs at the park off leash? This morning was a disaster. Went to the park to try to go swimming again. No dice. Get there and behind us comes a woman with her dog and starts throwing sticks for her dog. So we wait. Rose does not want to swim. I go on the other side as I did before, I called her and she figured out that instead of swimming across it is much easier to run around the pond straight to me. As we were leaving, here comes this woman with an older dog off leash. The dog comes straight to Rose. The woman doesn't much care. DH was holding Rose in a sit. I put myself between the dogs; the other dog starts growling at me or maybe at Rose. Rose starts growling back as she sees me in danger. Finally the woman strolls to us to get her dog. I did not say anything, Rose at the time was pulling on the leash so I just turned around to her to show her I was OK and calm her down. 
I am close to tears, nothing accomplished today, no swim, no training and almost got bit by a dog.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I avoid this situation at all costs. That's why I avoid dog parks.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I, too, avoid dog parks for the same reasons. People are amazingly ignorant when it comes to their dogs.

GDGLI, have you ever run any Spaniel hunt tests? (anyone else? I asked him because I know he has a spaniel!)


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

The heat wave finally broke here on Friday afternoon with violent thunderstorms (some friends further north are now on their third day without power). So after a week of the dogs essentially being housebound except for potty breaks we got out and trained yesterday and today. 

Yesterday I did a bunch of "salted field" blinds with Bonnie to work on her confidence and momentum. Then we set up three marks for all of the dogs--ran it as a triple with Breeze and Bonnie, and did a delayed triple with Butch, and singles withWings. Then we did a three mark water setup. No water marks for Butch as he has a hot spot that is just healing up, but did a tough, tight double with Bonnie. Did some jealousy drill work with Wings as she has been having moments of uncertainty about swimming out on water marks. So if she did not go, Bonnie got sent. She is very jealous of Bonnie, so that was enough to get her going out there!

Today we met and did a couple of marking drills--a white and orange depth of fall drill, and then because there were only three of us, the AB of an ABCD drill, with each station throwing both ways so the dogs had to go outside the guns, inside the guns and over an old fall.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I've been working Lucy hard the last few days. After her blowing those water marks at the hunt test. Her problem is recalls. So we set up several situations where she had something to do but there were other interesting things to get her attention. We had her retrieve a bumper in the water when there was a duck a few feet away on shore. Tough but necessary. She's coming along well. Practiced water doubles at short distances. She was very nice. I am determined that she will do well at the next hunt tests on Aug 10 and 11. There are no more hunt tests after August. 

We also started whistle stops and t drills. Never have done them before. Connie Cleveland has some nice you tube videos showing how to do it. I'm not very talented on all this stuff. I'm still trying to remember when to have my whistle in my mouth! Timing in fieldwork is an art.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

true dat!

I was talking to someone who has been in the dog games world (both retriever and spaniel) for a long time. I was talking about sending Tito on a blind, then when he gets a few feet from the bird and catches a whiff of it blowing the sit whistle exactly at the same moment he gets a whiff of the bird. Now, of course, I've blown the whistle and he HAS TO sit.

He said, "why in the world would you blow a sit whistle when your dog is a few feet away and knows right where the bird is???"

Um.....timing in fieldwork is an art!!! And I, sir, am not an artist.



Alaska7133 said:


> Timing in fieldwork is an art.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Ok, I think I am going to run Tito in some Spaniel hunt tests. As of July 1, Goldens are eligible to enter the Spaniel tests. 
They look like great fun. I've talked to a couple of old time Spaniel people, one of whom is also a long time judge of Spaniel hunt tests, and I think we can do it.

Since it's so hard for me to get weekends off, and there are so few spaniel HT around here, I don't want to start him at JHU (junior hunter upland) and work up. But since he will be one of the first Retrievers entering in this area, I also don't want to enter him at too high of a level and look like a fool. He's sort of an ambassador for the Goldens in the Spaniel tests in my mind.

The people *in the know* are encouraging me to enter him in Master level. I tend to agree, although I'm nervous about it.

I've read the rule book several times, and think I have a pretty good handle on what goes on. Also as I said, I've talked to these guys at great length about what is expected and what I should expect.

Basically, it's a pheasant hunt. The judges are supposed to judge each breed on its hunting style and characteristics based on what the parent club has written. GRCA wrote something pretty vague, but I guess it's clear from their ditty that Goldens aren't to be expected to hunt like a spaniel. 

Here's my interpretation of it:

They will plant birds. The birds are not shackled, and pheasants can run like crazy. Unlike HRC upland tests, the handler will not know where the birds are. 

There is a "line" of people when the test begins. The handler, the dog, and then a gunner about 15 paces off to each side of the handler and dog. They all start walking together down the field. Behind them are the judges, also walking the field. Behind the judges follows the "gallery", which consists of people and their dogs who are waiting their turn to run. 

The dog is expected to systematically work the field, hunting stylishly in the manner in which the breed hunts, and to flush the birds. When a bird is flushed, the dog MUST be steady to flush and shot (you can blow a sit whistle, though) and the gunners will shoot the bird. Then the dog is sent to retrieve it. They work in quite heavy cover, and the birds can be just about anywhere. The dog must flush 2 birds in order to pass the test, although they only need to retrieve one if, for example, a shot is missed or the bird is only wounded and flies off 200+ yards or something before it falls. Or, if they catch the bird when they flush it. Tito is pretty good at catching birds! After the dog flushes his 2 birds, and retrieves at least one, that handler and dog fade back into the gallery and the next team comes up in front of the judges, and everyone keeps on walking. 

The next series is called a "hunt dead" and it will be very different from anything we've done, but I think he can handle it. There is a dead bird out in the field about 65 yards out at the master level. But the thing is, the handler knows about how far out the bird is, but doesn't know WHERE it is. They might tell you, for example, it's between those two trees (which are about 30-40 yards apart) somewhere. The handler sends the dog out the appropriate distance, like we would for a blind, and then the dog is instructed to "hunt dead", basically to put his nose down and find the dead bird. He may have to cover 30-40 yards to do so. You are allowed to handle the dog, but again, you don't know where the bird is!

There is also a single water mark, which is about 65 or so yards, and I think a water blind but to be honest I didn't spend much time reading about the water series because absolutely everyone assured me that a dog who can run a SH water series will find the Spaniel water stuff very simple. There are no angle entries/exits, for example, everything is, according to the rule book, straight on. 

Sounds like fun! I'm told that the expectation at the Master level is that the dog be totally steady to flush and shot, under control at all times, take direction when told to change up directions on his hunt, and he must hunt stylishly and determinedly. The senior level isn't all that different, except that the length of the water stuff is a bit shorter (45 yards) but of course we run much more than the 65 yards the Master dogs run in our retriever training. Also in the senior level the dogs aren't judged nearly as strictly on steadiness, control, etc.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

here's what GRCA wrote for the Spaniel judges regarding the hunting style of the golden. It's what they are supposed to judge him against (vague!)

http://images.akc.org/pdf/events/hunting_tests/spaniels/hunting_style/golden_retriever.pdf


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

Congratulations gdgny and Buffy on placement!!

Amen to the timing thing. I have stopped Gladys so many times at the exact moment she auto-corrected herself for something, thereby stopping her for doing the right thing.
And the whistle right at that moment they figure out where the bird is, happens when you see them about to commit to getting in trouble, i.e. get out of the water, get where you can't see them ... you try to prevent that, but that very second they figure it out ... DOH!!

We didn't train this weekend. It was too hot yesterday and today we had our group but I had already committed to visit my family. So I took Gladys and Dee Dee for a hike this morning, practicing whistle come-ins and coming when called. There can never be a bumper out for those 2 together at the same time. That's what I learned today. 

Dee Dee has been working on her glove exercise, she's much easier than the other two were. After 2X she got it. All that exercise and activity was good for her b/c she's sleeping like a little angel now.

Good doggies love them xoxoxo


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> I, too, avoid dog parks for the same reasons. People are amazingly ignorant when it comes to their dogs.
> 
> GDGLI, have you ever run any Spaniel hunt tests? (anyone else? I asked him because I know he has a spaniel!)


I haven't run any spaniel tests. I sure would like to see one.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

The spaniel tests sound like a LOT of fun - BUT I would have a real hard time telling my Master Hunter to "hunt it up" after I've sent him on the blind! We retriever folks are CONTROL FREAKS according to spaniel people -- and that is why! UGGGG
Then again I remember maybe 8-9 years ago watching a master test at Mid-Florida where Bob Swift set up a blind almost exactly like that. The dog had to swim across a narrow channel then set up a hunt for a dead, downed bird in an area of high cover. You ran it as a blind then told the dog to hunt it up on the other side. They planted the bird in a different spot for each dog! You then ran a "real" blind DOWN THE SHORE of the channel, next to the cover! HAHAHAHA evilllll........


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Anney, that's one of the things I've been trying to figure out how to handle, and I've talked at great length to a few people who run both spaniels and retrievers about how to work it out so that it doesn't erode the retriever blinds. Heck, I worked so hard to get him to stop auto-casting when he's near the bird, and now I WANT him to do it??
Apparently the spaniels are taught a "hunt it up" whistle. Well, Tito doesn't know one, and I'm not going to start that now. 
The advice I was given, and I believe it's what I'm going to try (unless Dan doesn't like it, I haven't talked to him about it yet), was to use the whistle only for sit and come-in like I do for retriever hunt tests, and then use a verbal "find your bird, hunt 'em up" after the sit whistle so that he differentiates between a blind and a "hunt dead". Remember, the dogs are only about 65 yards away, so a verbal shouldn't be a problem.
Of course, I can always cast him back and forth until he stumbles on the bird, LOL. I'll have to try it and see what seems to make the most sense to Tito.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> Anney, that's one of the things I've been trying to figure out how to handle, and I've talked at great length to a few people who run both spaniels and retrievers about how to work it out so that it doesn't erode the retriever blinds. Heck, I worked so hard to get him to stop auto-casting when he's near the bird, and now I WANT him to do it??
> Apparently the spaniels are taught a "hunt it up" whistle. Well, Tito doesn't know one, and I'm not going to start that now.
> The advice I was given, and I believe it's what I'm going to try (unless Dan doesn't like it, I haven't talked to him about it yet), was to use the whistle only for sit and come-in like I do for retriever hunt tests, and then use a verbal "find your bird, hunt 'em up" after the sit whistle so that he differentiates between a blind and a "hunt dead". Remember, the dogs are only about 65 yards away, so a verbal shouldn't be a problem.
> Of course, I can always cast him back and forth until he stumbles on the bird, LOL. I'll have to try it and see what seems to make the most sense to Tito.


Hopefully, Shelly will weigh in here. I believe in Canada at the Senior and Master level they have quartering and sit to flush upland series in their tests. 
I did run Winter though a Canadian master upland set up earlier this year. Friends were training this to get ready to run in tests over the border. They had planted several dead birds in the grass and then had a winger set up. They had me quarter the field with her hunting up the planted birds. We hadn't quartered before she just did it naturally with her tail whipping back and forth. After a few "finds" I quartered her up toward the winger, after that it was like a HRC walk-up, bird goes up, you whistle, dogs butt hits ground and they must be steady until the released. Winter knows the walk-up drill so as soon as she heard the winger she sat.
I did not try to run a blind with her afterwards. I agree that would be the tricky part, trying to run a blind with a dog who has just quartered, but the picture would be quite different.....
Again, hopefully Shelly will weigh in.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Barb those two options are exactly what I was thinking would work. A verbal "hunt em up" or just cast him all over until he bumps into it! LOL (hey, I've had blinds like that anyways....)


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Just found out we will be hosting the National Invitational for NAHRA next year June 19-21, 2014 up here in Alaska. If your dog has a MHR title you should look into it. Website is: 2013 NAHRA Invitational Since I don't even have an SR on my puppy, I'll be volunteering but not have a dog in the game. The pond I posted a photo of is one of the possible ponds that will be used for the event. Here's a link to the NAHRA website information on rules and titles in NAHRA: Rule Book
And Dawn I expect to see you here next summer! We should have several local goldens at the event. Our local NAHRA club is: Midnight Sun Gun Dog Association www.msgda.org


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

hollyk said:


> Hopefully, Shelly will weigh in here. I believe in Canada at the Senior and Master level they have quartering and sit to flush upland series in their tests.
> I did run Winter though a Canadian master upland set up earlier this year. Friends were training this to get ready to run in tests over the border. They had planted several dead birds in the grass and then had a winger set up. They had me quarter the field with her hunting up the planted birds. We hadn't quartered before she just did it naturally with her tail whipping back and forth. After a few "finds" I quartered her up toward the winger, after that it was like a HRC walk-up, bird goes up, you whistle, dogs butt hits ground and they must be steady until the released. Winter knows the walk-up drill so as soon as she heard the winger she sat.
> I did not try to run a blind with her afterwards. I agree that would be the tricky part, trying to run a blind with a dog who has just quartered, but the picture would be quite different.....
> Again, hopefully Shelly will weigh in.


Yes, this is our third series in Master--We have a land series, a water series, and an upland series. At most tests there will be dead birds planted out in the field and we send the dog out and tell them to hunt it up, and then the flush comes after they haave quartered a bit. Some judges want the dog nearly into the winger before they release the flush bird, as if they are really pushing up a live or wounded bird. On Ontario, it is generally all dead birds (except at the Master National where it is most often live birds free flushing so they can be shot), and tends to be the same out west and in Quebec. In the Maritimes, they will often use live pigeons that they let fly away--we just cannot legally shoot them if they are hand thrown or winger thrown. We ideally want to see the dog working the field naturally digging into cover and using their nose and the wind intelligently. Some of us teach the dogs to quarter using the methods that the spaniel people use.

We see a huge variation in the quality of the upland work. Some dogs run straight out as if they are on a blind and have to be handled back and forth. Other dogs (usually the ones who have hunted pheasant and grouse) get in the cover and do a good job. There are some dogs who also try to do a good job but the handlers get too involved because while the dog has good instincts they have not done real upland work and do not know how to read their dog--they constantly use their whistle to get the dog to change direction, sometimes just when the dog is getting hot on scent. Those ones almost bug me more than the ones who handle-quarter as at least in Master if the dog does not hunt on its own I can zero it on Perseverance and Style. The ones where the handler interferes with natural quartering ability are harder to score as the dog is showing the evidence, the handler is just getting in the way! On the flush bird in Master the handler can stop the dog with either a whistle or a verbal, and it is the one place in MAster where you are allowed a controlled break--but that is a single extra command and the dog must stop immediately and make no further attempt to retrieve. We lost three dogs on the flush in the last MH I judged.

At some tests the upland portion is very cursory, and at others it is very involved. The inconsistencies have some people wanting to see it as a separate test as it in in HRC events and adding a third marking series like AKC instead. I personally think it would be good to have it as a separate test and title.


Edited to add--PS: It can be quite common for the upland series to be attached to another series--so you could feasibly do a Q2F, and then be asked to run a blind, or have the rest of the marks in a triple go off, with the flush bird as one of the marks to be picked up.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

And more good news from Baron's mom--he passed both tests in a double CKC Master this weekend. So he has three passes in the bag now!! The pass rate was 12 of 27 dogs in the Saturday test. He is running in Vermont this weekend--the only CKC test in the province is one I am judging, so he cannot run it as I co-own him--so they are going for another AKC leg instead!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Congrats on the passes Shelly!
The 2 guys that I talked to that each judge spaniel tests told me the exact same thing.....LEARN TO READ YOUR DOG! These are live birds, and they do tend to run. Both guys basically told me that, even if the dog gets behind you (which they're not supposed to do, in theory), if he's birdy let him be. The judge cannot judge a dog that you are constantly handling.
So we went to Dan's today. Did some tough water blinds, including one that was a really stupid set-up (this of course was the one I ran while waiting for Dan, LOLOL) but Tito did pretty good. The stupid one was a long blind, tight angle entry and exit, but the problem was the white pole with a flag on it on the opposite shore, about halfway between where I was and where he was supposed to get out. Yep, lots of suction toward that pole. But he did take my casts, it didn't get *too* ugly, and I was pleased with him.
On to some land stuff, just some marks. 
Then the upland! Today was to assess where he's at and what we need to brush up for the tests, as we haven't done any upland since last fall. I was extremely pleased that he was steady to flush despite not having done it in about 9 months, and despite Dan *teasing* him with a bird. 
We dizzied up a chukkar and wanted him to flush it, but it had run off and after about 5 minutes of searching (he did quarter nicely, though) called off the search and planted a new one because it was quite hot out and he was clearly getting awfully warm. This one he did flush, and his fluffy butt hit the ground the second that bird hit the air.
Time to enter the tests!


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

sterregold said:


> And more good news from Baron's mom--he passed both tests in a double CKC Master this weekend. So he has three passes in the bag now!! The pass rate was 12 of 27 dogs in the Saturday test. He is running in Vermont this weekend--the only CKC test in the province is one I am judging, so he cannot run it as I co-own him--so they are going for another AKC leg instead!


Wow, Baron is racking up those passes!


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

Gladys:
No Tues group yesterday, rain and thundered out.
Local members did pattern blinds introducing throwers and throws.
Gladys wasn't ready for the poison bird, so we just did after the marks.
I thought she did pretty good for her introduction to what I see as adding difficult concepts.

Dee Dee: has been doing the glove. We had a choice of returning to Basic Manners class or move to CGC. I was tending to Basic because I don't expect a 7 month old puppy to be ready for CGC, but Dog Skool Teecher said put her in field class and she can work on some of the field concepts while continuing to practice the existing obedience homework.
I wasn't going to do anything because frankly if they cash my check before Friday it will bounce, but I felt sorry for Dee Dee who is too smart to sit home all day while I work, so I signed her up. 
What a surprise, when Dog Skool Teecher saw her glove work he said progress to the dumbell. We did that and on the third time she did pretty good. We're supposed to do it 3X / 3X/day. We did it this morning and she mauled me for the dumbbell, held it, ~AND~ spit it out when I said out!!!!!!

xoxoxoxo good doggies xoxoxoxoo

Ooooh I forgot to say to Alaska - we would love to come see you. I will work on being eligible and save enough $$$ to go


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I have been in NH since Monday. My cousin's house is on the Winnipesaukee River. I have been training every day. By myself but it's OK by me.
Land blinds, water blinds, and steadiness---another dog owner threw retieves for her dog and I had Buffy honor.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Ok, I need to get ready for these Spaniel upland tests!
Yesterday I went with a friend and we worked on retriever test stuff (under the arc marks/blinds), then today I only had a couple of spare minutes so I went out in the alfalfa field, which is quite long and thick right now, and dropped a couple of dead pheasants randomly.
Then I went and got Tito, sent him into the field, just told him, "bird out there, hunt 'em up". 
The first one was strange, he must have winded it from 50 yards away because he just plain headed straight for it and picked it up. Weird. I didn't walk straight out or back when I dropped it, so he wasn't following my path. There was no stick/stake/ribbon so I know he didn't see it. Anyway, although it was kinda cool, it wasn't what I was looking for!
The second one he did quarter the field nicely before coming up with the bird. Of course they're dead, but still he was quite excited to find a bird in the field. 
Then I worked on his steady to flush, and to my surprise he broke on me twice. I did a steadiness drill that Dan does with him in which I tease him like crazy with the bird, having him jumping in the air, dancing in circles, etc. and then I toss the bird. As soon as the bird goes airborne the butt is supposed to be earthborne. A little *pressure* on the collar, and after the second break he got the fuzzibutt on the ground like he was supposed to. We need to revisit that quite a few times between now and the Spaniel tests!


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## boomers_dawn (Sep 20, 2009)

Gladys - went to the soccer field and did baseball the length of both soccer fields. The days we don't do drills or training, we go in the yard and I throw 3 bumpers .. trying to get her to learn to count to 3 now.

Dee Dee - dumbell and come when called on long line with treats and whistle, mixing in sit/stay, whistle watch

Training Sunday but it's supposed to thunderstorm ... we'll see ..... happy training and/or testing to all


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> Ok, I need to get ready for these Spaniel upland tests!
> Yesterday I went with a friend and we worked on retriever test stuff (under the arc marks/blinds), then today I only had a couple of spare minutes so I went out in the alfalfa field, which is quite long and thick right now, and dropped a couple of dead pheasants randomly.
> Then I went and got Tito, sent him into the field, just told him, "bird out there, hunt 'em up".
> The first one was strange, he must have winded it from 50 yards away because he just plain headed straight for it and picked it up. Weird. I didn't walk straight out or back when I dropped it, so he wasn't following my path. There was no stick/stake/ribbon so I know he didn't see it. Anyway, although it was kinda cool, it wasn't what I was looking for!
> ...


Ou need there ally be are of wind directon when setting up quartering. I know when we hunt for real I will sometimes get to an area and know which part of the field I want to work based on wind and cove, and other people will arrive and say we'll take this side, cover looks good, but the wind is not in their favour. I can be limited out and back at my truck before they have a bird...


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Finally finished land forced fetch. So today worked for the second time on water forced fetch. We worked also on recalls with bumpers while wet. Hold until heeled and sitting before putting in my hand. Lucy wants to shake like all dogs when they get out of the water. Last Sunday we did lots of doubles at the lake, but no one was there but us so no challenges or distractions. We are working on whistle sits, I'm such a nerd I can't figure out the timing on this one at all. I think I'm baffling her more than training. Then there's a simple T. So I'm running a friend's experienced dog so I can learn how the drill goes. I the this field dog just laughs at me when I whistle him. So the trainer definitely needs more training than the dogs.

Summer here has been amazing. This morning it was 62 degrees (16C)! It's never been that warm in the morning ever that I can remember. So it should be a good training day.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Yes, the spaniel people have told me that, too. They say work the wind on the tests. 
That's the only thing I could figure, he winded it probably from where I launched him. He headed out as if for a mark, found the bird, and came back. And I planted it before he was even outside, he couldn't see me from in the house at all. 




sterregold said:


> Ou need there ally be are of wind directon when setting up quartering. I know when we hunt for real I will sometimes get to an area and know which part of the field I want to work based on wind and cove, and other people will arrive and say we'll take this side, cover looks good, but the wind is not in their favour. I can be limited out and back at my truck before they have a bird...


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Barb,
It's funny you mention doing spaniel tests, I've had several spaniels at NAHRA hunt tests this summer. I thought that was interesting.

I'm in a panic to get Lucy through everything in the water. Fall is coming so quickly. We were down in the 40's (9C) last night and summer is slipping away fast. I've been seeing some color in the trees. Freeze up happened here in mid-September last year, so I'm hoping to be through all our water training that we can squeeze in before freeze up. So we need to be realistic about what we can get done in the next 7 weeks. I want to be finished with water FF and all land FF. I want to be getting into swim by and possibly water blinds, I'm not sure if that's realistic. Lucy is in novice obedience and novice rally competition this weekend. 

Reilly is doing so good. But the scar tissue has made him blind in his left eye. Anyone train a one eyed dog? His B12 injections have definitely made him whole. So I'm ready to start running him again. He's through CC. He could be steadier though, but knows most basic commands. He does well on singles at 50 yards, but maybe I should try doubles with him to see if he has the brain capacity for memory. I think he'll do fine. Dawn how do you find the time to train 3 dogs?! I might consider running him in the WC later this month.

Anyone want to come up for our golden club WC/WCX later this month? We're always looking for additional dogs! We found a source for pigeons so I don't have to trap for awhile.

Anyone have suggestions for setting up training groups? I've been approached by other golden owners that have been too intimidated in the past to try fieldwork and are interested in working with me. But I'm a total novice. I don't want to give someone bad advice, but I'd like to see people get out there and learn something about working with their dogs and have some fun!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I *think* I have found a victim to run the Spaniel tests with me!! Her labradors are GRHRCH dogs, and have their HRC upland titles. I hope she will!
We went to Dan's today and had a great time. 
Started with some water blinds. The first one was big water, and he popped on me. ARGH! But we ran 5 more, and he was fine. 
Then some land marks, very tough technical singles and a few blinds. We need to review blinds...
But the best part was, of course, getting ready for the upland tests. We planted 4 quail, then "bird out there, hunt 'em up", quartering, flushing, STEADY as could be, retrieving the shot birds....it just doesn't get any better than that!!

edit to add...two of the birds were only wounded. One of them went into very very heavy cover, and I couldn't see Tito. He popped up about 5 yards from where we had seen the bird go down, and he had entered the cover, bird in mouth. I just love to watch him work! The other wounded bird he had to pounce on and bring down as it was trying to fly away. When he comes prancing back with that bird in his mouth his whole demeanor says, "THIS is what I was born to do!"


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