# Moral question about cropping ears...



## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Please no arguing. I dont agree with cropping or docking healthy dogs...

But what if a situation warrants it? Tonight I was looking at Lincolns ear and thought I saw another hematoma. I am still unsure if thats what it is as its only 1/2 inch in length and a bit puffy and hasnt grown in size at all. 

My friend was like why not just cut his ears off (she said this sarcastically) and it got me thinking. This would be his second hematoma and each one is $500-$800 to surgically repair. I dont have money to keep paying that. I barely could afford the first repair. Would it be morally incorrect and cruel to just crop the effected ear to prevent anymore? I do not agree with cropping/docking for looks and I dont agree with neutering for convenience but what if the crop was for medical reasons?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

No. I would not cut my dogs ears off just to prevent hematomas.

For our dogs who repeatedly developed hematomas, we never had surgery done. We worked with our vet on non-surgical alternatives and stopped our dogs from shaking their heads (cleared up the ear infections) so the ears healed.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Not even if he kept getting them constantly and each time you had to fork out $500-$800 to repair is?


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## aerolor (May 27, 2011)

No - cropping the ears of any breed is wrong and immoral - even if it saves you money longer term.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

No to cropping ears. I am a vet tech and I have seen many pups go through this procedure and it is very painful for the dogs. 
I understand were you are coming from but this is not the answer.
Why does the dog get hematomas? Does he have recurring ear infections or is he allergic to something which is making him scratch his ears?


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

If the problem with your dog is recurring ear infections which cause the hematomas, here is an article about ear ablation. This is a procedure done routinely in veterinary clinics. The dogs do really well afterwards and it is actually the last resort for chronic ear infections. This is more humane than cropping, even if it does not seem like it. If your dog has recurring ear infections or allergies, cutting of the ear will get rid of the hematomas but not the underlying problem.


Ear Ablation in Dog Ears - The Last Resort for Chronic Ear Infections


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

Absolutely not. 

And you don't believe in neutering "for convenience"?? What do you even mean by that??


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## sadiegold (Nov 3, 2010)

We went thru two hematoma surgeries with our last golden Savannah and the outcome was it taught us to be better parents with much more proactive ear maintenance. The idea of cropping ears makes me a bit queasy.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Well what has your vet said? I do not like cropping or docking but feel like if there is a medical reason to do so then it is ok. However, that needs a vet's judgment.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I did not understand that neutering remark either.

I guess we need to understand why the dog has hematomas in the first place. You did not explain if the dog has allergies or chronic ear infections which make him shake and scratch at his ears, causing the hematomas. So cutting of the ears which is very inhumane and sooo unnecessary, does not even begin to make sense to me. Have you exhausted all options to treat the ears by cleaning, vet prescribed antibiotic and antifungal/yeast ointments and drops? That ear ablation surgery I mentioned in a previous post is really the absolute last resort.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Neutering comment- I dont believe in neutering a dog unless theres a medical reason to like retained testicles. Neutering for convenience means, to not neuter a dog with the only reason being they are "easier to train" etc. Anyways...

I have been trying to pinpoint his issue for 3 years. He doesnt have ear infections. The back of his ear behind the fur is really flaky and dry (I have added salmon oil a month ago, not much improvement there). Hes bathed in special shampoos. No matter what food he is fed be it Orijen, RAW or Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach (which is his current food and its the only food that give him normal poops) I have no idea whats up. In the new year when I get my Visa paid down I want to order Dr Dodds Nutriscan kit for food allergies, then I want to test his thyroid. When you scratch the tip of his ears he flutters his back leg so that tells me its itchy, when the fur is moves around you can see his ears are dry. I think he had ear margin dermatitis. As in colder months it flakes off in chunks and gets really dry. 

I am unsure what to try next because I cannot keep paying for hematoma repairs.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Again, have you talked to the vet about this? I don't think cropping or docking are bad if they are done for medical purposes...but at the same time I have never heard of cropping being done for a medical purpose. I am not convinced it would help but that is something you should ask a veterinarian.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I am planning to speak to my vet about this. Sometime after the holidays. 

I dont believe in cropping or docking. My one dog growing up had to have his tail docked up a bit because he kept whacking is against walls, tables etc and breaking bones and skin. So we opted to just have it taken up because the bill was already at $500 each visit for sedation etc. 

My friends dog had his ear chewed off so the vet cropped it pact the damage and cleaned it up a bit. 

If theres a medical reason for it I am okay with it. But with me and my situation right now I could only pay for one more surgery and unless my finances picked up the third one would result in the hematoma being left or him being signed over to the spca (where he would be put down). If I had money, I wouldnt really care I would keep paying for surgeries. 

He seems to be getting a bit better now that its cooling off. But the fact hes been on a few foods and not one helped I would think thats either an indication hes allergic to everything in all foods or its something in his environment


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

Have you ever considered letting a rescue take him? It seems a lot of your threads are about how you can't afford what he needs.

Sometimes dogs just always have issues. I'm sure there's a great GSD rescue in Ontario that could foster him and place him in a great home.

You don't have to believe the only options are to strain yourself financially or have the SPCA put him down.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Lincoln_16 said:


> Neutering comment- I dont believe in neutering a dog unless theres a medical reason to like retained testicles. Neutering for convenience means, to not neuter a dog with the only reason being they are "easier to train" etc. Anyways...


How about preventing unwanted puppies from coming into the world? I don't think in all my life I've heard the expression "neutering for convenience" or heard anyone give their first reason for neutering a dog as "it's easier to train them." 

I'm not even going to go into the level of cruelty that I personally believe would be involved in cropping a dog's ears because he has the unfortunate fate of sick ears.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Well you don't need to neuter to prevent unwanted puppies. It's called being smart and responsible. It really is a personal decision.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

It is a personal decision. Why would I put my dog through an un-necessary procedure just because he has testicles, I think its cruel to do that and I would never subject another one of my dogs to it...same concept. You can prevent unwanted litters by being a responsible pet owner. If you feel you are not (I wont say the first part of what im thinking as thats a bag of popcorn) then maybe you should do a vasectomy instead of taking a vital part of a dogs body (hormones) away. 

Its the same with humans. I dont go take my breasts off to prevent breast cancer so why should I remove my dogs testicles to prevent the less then 1% chance he may get cancer there...


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I am sorry, but I keep hearing: I tried this and that but ....... Have you ever taken him to the vet for his dry itchy ear at all? 
A lot of German Shepherds have issues with their ears, my sister has two GSD. 
Sorry, but unless you see a vet about his issues, you will never know what is wrong and what can be done about it. It may just be something so simple and easily taken care of with just some kind of ointment, ear drops, special dog bath, etc.... If you have not consulted a vet, please do so. To go to the extreme of " I consider having his ears cut off" is so unfair and wrong to do to your dog. 
The only way I could ever condone having an ear removed is, if it was so badly damaged and mangled that it could not be saved or if it had cancerous growths in it. Which does not apply here at all. Please see a professional for skin problems.


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

With a GSD, I don't quite get how cropping his ears will prevent infections. It's not like a golden with floppy ears. GSD ears stand up and let air circulate in them already. What would cropping his ears achieve?

Maybe I'm off base for saying this, but it seems you keep coming here and starting threads that will stir up drama. Every post you have is something that will either get people all up in arms (neutering, ear cropping, etc.) or it's you making something dramatic out of something that isn't a big deal (your old vet's notes, which are irrelevant now that they are no longer your vet).


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Ninde'Gold said:


> Have you ever considered letting a rescue take him? It seems a lot of your threads are about how you can't afford what he needs.
> 
> Sometimes dogs just always have issues. I'm sure there's a great GSD rescue in Ontario that could foster him and place him in a great home.
> 
> You don't have to believe the only options are to strain yourself financially or have the SPCA put him down.


Hes not going to a rescue. 1. No rescue would take him because he has aggression issues and *I* am the only one who can control him (yes I have had him evaluated) and 2. Hes my dog and I dont wish for him to have a life living on prescription foods, prednisone and being fat. If I were him I would much rather be dead then barely thriving in a new home where all the drugs they give me do nothing but make me loopy. 

So no, a rescue will not be taking him. I can afford basic things and have some money for little emergencies but I cannot afford a huge surgery that will cost more then $600. IMO you dont have to make millions to own a dog and I dont even want to be told that. My dog is my life and I do what I can for him. Me being a good home for him shouldnt be judged on how much money I have. I know people who dropped their dogs off at the shelter because they had fleas and it costs money for that. My dog has a lot off issues and I have stuck by him this whole time and I am not going to give up yet. 

If cropping his ear stands between him being put down and me keeping him. I think I will choose to crop his ear. 

Sorry, I just dont like people telling me I shouldnt own a dog because I cannot afford high end surgeries. Theres people who will spend thousands (my one friend spent 30k) and I would if I had the money and didnt have to think twice about spending it. Once upon a time I was able to work and made money. I wasnt like the other people who landed on a fixed income the first things they do is drop their dog off at the shelter where it will face death. 

I took crap out of my budget to afford him after I stopped working. I have no internet/cable. The internet/cable I have access to is my grandmothers as I rent out her basement. I go to food banks for food as well as buy what I cannot get there. I cannot remember the last time I bought something for myself. I have a phone bill to pay and thats it along with rent and a personal debt. So at least I try, I could of just brought him to the shelter when I stopped working.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Enzos_Mom said:


> With a GSD, I don't quite get how cropping his ears will prevent infections. It's not like a golden with floppy ears. GSD ears stand up and let air circulate in them already. What would cropping his ears achieve?
> 
> Maybe I'm off base for saying this, but it seems you keep coming here and starting threads that will stir up drama. Every post you have is something that will either get people all up in arms (neutering, ear cropping, etc.) or it's you making something dramatic out of something that isn't a big deal (your old vet's notes, which are irrelevant now that they are no longer your vet).


Im not cropping to prevent infection. I wanted to crop to prevent hematomas. 

You know what, I will leave. Enough said. Its pretty obvious the opinions about people on here who dont follow the politically correct way. There are people who have disabilities such as learning and have problems wording things in what they say so it can come across as being argumentative when that was not its intent. But anyway, the damage was done maybe I am just not thick skinned enough to be part of a forum. 

Have a good Christmas every one


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

Neutering him could help with his aggression issues...but that might be too convenient.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Enzos_Mom said:


> Neutering him could help with his aggression issues...but that might be too convenient.


He already IS neutered and he wasnt aggressive before. This was an occurance AFTER he was neutered. Studies have shown neutering actually makes most aggression worse. 

Anyway, Im off, dont need the sarcasm as its pretty clear I am not welcome here


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## Deb_Bayne (Mar 18, 2011)

Lincoln_16 said:


> Sorry, I just dont like people telling me I shouldnt own a dog because I cannot afford high end surgeries. Theres people who will spend thousands (my one friend spent 30k) and I would if I had the money and didnt have to think twice about spending it. Once upon a time I was able to work and made money. I wasnt like the other people who landed on a fixed income the first things they do is drop their dog off at the shelter where it will face death.


I totally agree with you about the lack of funds being a deciding factor, many of us here, my family including have recently fallen on hard times and this doesn't mean my animals are going to the pound, we will eat macaroni and cheese just to keep getting food for our animals, one cat has to have monthly tests at a cost of $130 to test his sugar levels.. we were rolling pennies last time just to cover this,,, we don't know what we'll do for the next month. Also, I guess Bayne won't be neutered any time soon, we'll deal with that but neutering is not necessarily behavior related anyway. 

Growing up we had 3 animals die of kidney failure, we had the option of spending $1000's to have dialysis but we were not going to break the bank to satisfy our emotional feelings with our pets, so we decided the humane thing was to let them go peacefully. 

I understand your feeling here with some of the judgemental comments as I've seen plenty and have cut back my involvement in many areas. Whatever you decide to do my best wishes follow you. :wave:


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Deb_Bayne said:


> I totally agree with you about the lack of funds being a deciding factor, many of us here, my family including have recently fallen on hard times and this doesn't mean my animals are going to the pound, we will eat macaroni and cheese just to keep getting food for our animals, one cat has to have monthly tests at a cost of $130 to test his sugar levels.. we were rolling pennies last time just to cover this,,, we don't know what we'll do for the next month. Also, I guess Bayne won't be neutered any time soon, we'll deal with that but neutering is not necessarily behavior related anyway.
> 
> Growing up we had 3 animals die of kidney failure, we had the option of spending $1000's to have dialysis but we were not going to break the bank to satisfy our emotional feelings with our pets, so we decided the humane thing was to let them go peacefully.
> 
> I understand your feeling here with some of the judgemental comments as I've seen plenty and have cut back my involvement in many areas. Whatever you decide to do my best wishes follow you. :wave:


Thank You!. I love my dogs. They are the ONLY thing I have in life as I dont have family. Vet care in Canada is expensive. Your in Barrie, its prolly even more expensive your way. To neuter a 65 pound dog here your looking at $600-$800...spaying is even more expensive. I need cholesteral and high blood pressure medication that is NOT covered by my provincial drug plan. They will cost about $100 a month. I have chosen to not get them because I would rather have that money there for my dog. I am not sexually active because the pill isnt covered and its $35 a month as I prefer to use two methods to be extra safe. So I chose to not be active so I could use that $35 a month on my dog. I have cut back a lot...because I love my dog

To neuter my cat had I not of found a low income vet (which only does cats) would of cost me $400..for a 6 pound cat. 

I do what I can and I dont like being judged for that. I dont think I can participate here very much after being insulted like that


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

We're all struggling, but it just seems the young lady just always makes threads about how she can't afford the care her dog needs.

And then to suggest getting herself a Golden Retriever puppy on top of that. It does not make a lick of sense to me.

I've been unemployed for a total of 5 months this year, my dogs still got everything they needed. I've sold personal items to pay my bills.

I would suggest taking your dog to a specialist about his skin condition. I don't know where you get your numbers from but it only cost me $200 to neuter my dog.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Ninde'Gold said:


> We're all struggling, but it just seems the young lady just always makes threads about how she can't afford the care her dog needs.
> 
> And then to suggest getting herself a Golden Retriever puppy on top of that. It does not make a lick of sense to me.
> 
> ...


3 years ago when I got him neutered it was only $360. Prices have gone up. Prices vary per city but in my general area they are really high. I paid $40 for 2 weeks of Keflex a couple weeks back. For a Heart worm test I used to pay $35 its now $65. The economy keeps going down, the prices keep going up but I dont see my check/wages increasing.

I want a GR puppy, but if you read my first thread I believe I stated I cannot get one at this current time because my finances. I am still interested and when I can afford my current ones and another one I will be adding a GR puppy. I never said I was running out right now to get one.

I dont make threads to say how I cannot afford vet care. Not sure where that came from. Ive been unemployed for 4 years, yes I hope to get back to work making the 70k I was making rather then the 12k I make now. But right now its not possible. You can judge me all you want.


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## C's Mom (Dec 7, 2009)

Lincoln_16 said:


> Hes not going to a rescue. 1. No rescue would take him because he has aggression issues and *I* am the only one who can control him (yes I have had him evaluated) and 2. Hes my dog and I dont wish for him to have a life living on prescription foods, prednisone and being fat. If I were him I would much rather be dead then barely thriving in a new home where all the drugs they give me do nothing but make me loopy.


I know you love your dog and that you don't want to give him up. I also know what it is to live with a dog with aggression issues. It is mega stressful for the dog and the owner. I have not given Mr. C any meds and I doubt I ever will - there were times when I would have gladly taken the meds myself though. I have seen the videos of the training work you have done with Lincoln and I tip my hat to you. Mr. C is nowhere near as trained as your boy is. 
As for the ears, do speak to the vet as you noted in your post - perhaps there is something that can be done without cropping. Check out sites on line for this issue in particular or contact GSD breeders and see if there is something they recommend. Best of luck to you and Lincoln.


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

Ultimately what you choose to do is up to you. But your dog can't help himself. It's up to you provide all the proper care he needs.

Like I said, we've pretty much all got money problems. You just have to find your way to deal with it without letting yourself or your dog suffer. Find the balance.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

C's Mom said:


> I know you love your dog and that you don't want to give him up. I also know what it is to live with a dog with aggression issues. It is mega stressful for the dog and the owner. I have not given Mr. C any meds and I doubt I ever will - there were times when I would have gladly taken the meds myself though. I have seen the videos of the training work you have done with Lincoln and I tip my hat to you. Mr. C is nowhere near as trained as your boy is.
> As for the ears, do speak to the vet as you noted in your post - perhaps there is something that can be done without cropping. Check out sites on line for this issue in particular or contact GSD breeders and see if there is something they recommend. Best of luck to you and Lincoln.


Thank You, I worked my arse off to get him to wear hes at with no help from any trainers. I knew what I was getting into when I got a Malinois. The fact hes got a tad bit of Shepherd in him calmed him down some but hes still crazy. He gets me out and about. If it werent for him I wouldnt be here right now. Hes the reason I get up every morning.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Ninde'Gold said:


> Ultimately what you choose to do is up to you. But your dog can't help himself. It's up to you provide all the proper care he needs.
> 
> Like I said, we've pretty much all got money problems. You just have to find your way to deal with it without letting yourself or your dog suffer. Find the balance.


My dog is NOT suffering. We also have varying opinions on what is proper care he needs. I dont feel he needs a specialist for every little thing thats wrong. He gets food, water, shelter. Thats what is required by law. I have gone above and beyond to take him to the vet when he needs to go. I JUST spent $500 on him a couple months back with his poop issues. 

So please (every one in general) dont tell me I dont take proper care of my dog. I do more then what most people do. My friends dog has lived with the runs every day this last year because he refuses to treat it or take the dog to the vet.


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

Lincoln_16 said:


> I am not sexually active because the pill isnt covered and its $35 a month as I prefer to use two methods to be extra safe.


.... I feel like that was a very odd thing to share...


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Enzos_Mom said:


> .... I feel like that was a very odd thing to share...


Being sexually active is a part of most peoples lives. I was meerly just trying to show people how much I have cut back for my dog.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I am sorry, but I do not understand stating that you don't run to specialists for every little thing. To me, having an itchy spot on the ear is a little thing and easily taken care of and inexpensive, versus: my dog has an itchy spot on the ear, he scratches and shakes his head and gets hematomas, so I chose to go the vet, have his ears cut off which is an expensive surgery. I just DON'T get it. Talk about overkill for a simple skin problem. I wish there was an icon here for throwing my hands up in the air and shaking my head. That is what I am doing right now.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

From everything you've written (over several weeks/months), it sounds to me like your dog needs to try some prednisone. It will help the allergies. It is a treatment for hematomas when surgery is not an option. Oh, but wait, you'd rather the dog SUFFER with his allergies and the subsequent infections/hematomas/whatever than give it prednisone since prednisone is inherently bad. And yes, I do believe allergies and their secondary issues cause dogs to suffer.


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

^ and for what it's worth, she's a vet. She isn't just someone giving random advice/opinions that they've pulled out of thin air...


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

You think my dog is suffering. He itches through out the day but hes not constantly at himself. Right now hes happily paying with his toy. He doesnt shake his head non stop either. 

Ofcourse you want my dog on prednisone. It causes even more issues while hiding the itchies so that I have to bring my dog in when he gets all the negative effects from long term steroid use. 

Hes not in pain therefore hes not suffering. He still plays, walks etc. If you want to come let my dog out every 20 minutes for a 5 minute long pee, constantly listen to him whine because hes starving, watch him drink 4 bowls of water a day, gain 20 pounds even though his food never increased...then so be it I will put him on prednisone. 

The vet said the dose he was on was the lowest he could be on with any effect. He had all those side effects on that small dose. If I could get away with giving him waaaay less then what my vet is claiming to be the lowest dose I MIGHT consider it. I do not want him on prednisone every single day

If the dog already has a hematoma and the owners do not do surgery thats making the dog suffer. Prednisone doesnt cure a hematoma thats already there. People think prednisone is a cure all when its not. Does anyone have any links to show how prednisone is suppose to be dose for allergies so I can see if my vet was under dosing or overdosing him?

If the rudeness towards me continues I will just be leaving and not even bother to try to help my dog.


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## maple1144 (Oct 18, 2009)

I just want to know if you are doing anything to help your dog live a more happy and comfortable life other then complain??? and as far as doing what is required by law for your dog, why even have a dog if you arent willing to make him a priority and go above and beyond and one more thing, ignorance is no excuse for mistreating an animal!


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

I just have to ask, and I don't mean to be rude, but why do you even take your pets to the vet at all? In another thread you say you research everything before making a decision... Why bother going? Vets go through years of school and have tons of experience... They would know better than a Joe Somebody. I just feel that you might "misdiagnose" your own dog someday, or really go against what a vet says and your pup will be the one who ultimately pays the price.


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

There are medications that can be prescribed to coat the stomach so that the side effects of long term steroid use are lessened. We had to do this when our senior lab, Hunter, was having extreme ear issues. Sometimes, you have to do what you have to do. My husband and I are not rich by any means. We actually narrowly avoided his car being repossessed this week. But my FIL was doing nothing to cure his dog's ear and gland issues, so you know what? We would wait until my FIL wasn't home and we would take him in for treatment ourselves, paying out of our own pockets. 

My brother is 9 years old and has a chronic kidney disease. He's on prednisone every other day and will have to be for the rest of his life. My mom could say that he still plays, he still eats, etc., so what's the point of the prednisone? But she doens't, because she was told by a medical professional (much like you were told by your vet) that the benefits outweigh the risks. 

I don't think that chopping off your dogs ear is the answer, regardless of what you do.


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

Predniisone is a good drug, but not for long-term use. It can cause irreversible damage.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I take my animals to the vet because if they are sick I dont want them to suffer. I brought him to the vet when he had his anal gland infection. I knew what it was before I even brought him in. Vet gave me 2 weeks of Keflex. Did nothing. Wanted him on Keflex for another 4 weeks. I said how about we put him on Baytril instead. Cured the infection in a week. I read baytril was an awesome antibiotic so I just wanted the infection to be over with. 

I brought him to the vet for surgery for his previous hematoma. I brought him to the vet when he was crapping through the eye of a needle...two separate times. 

I brought him in when he was mauled by another dog for stitches. 

Guess maybe I just wont bother bringing him in to the vet. Next one, I will let heal on its own since I know every thing I wont bother bringing him in. Next eye exam, I wont bother with because I know everything remember?

I dont let the vets do everything their way. Had I of he would be vaccinated for Rabies, DHLPP, kennel cough, lyme, giardia and all the other vaccines that are non core. If I never spoke up and said umm no he only needs Rabies at the moment, they would of given the other shots. 

My dog goes in yearly for an exam, heart worm/lyme test and then gets medications. I try to get him in for blood work every year but this year I wasnt able to so it will be in the new year. 

I plan on testing his thyroid and doing the food allergy test thing from Dr Dodds. 

Sorry, the money for a specialist isnt there right now. I would walk out easily spending $1200 and I dont have that. I dont even make that a month.

I try the hardest I can for what I have. I have put over 6k into him since he was a puppy. He ate up any savings I had. Many people wouldnt even bother bringing him into the vet for what I have. My neighbour thiks im crazy because I bring him to the vet. His dogs teeth are rotting out her mouth and he wont take her in. 

Im not saying I know everything, but if a vet wants to do something to my animal I research it before I okay it, not because I dont trust the vet but because I want to make sure its the best option.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Lincoln_16 said:


> If the rudeness towards me continues I will just be leaving and not even bother to try to help my dog.


Really?? You won't try to help your dog if you perceive rudeness to you?  Are you serious?


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

If people wish to help my dog they can do so without being rude. 

The dose of prednisone he was on made him have horrible side effects. I wanted to know what the lowest dose he could be on for his weight and if I could give it every other day like I have read some people do. 

Maybe the dose he was on was to high


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

That's something to ask your vet about...that should be considered WAY before chopping his ears off.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

My vet said the dose was as low as it could go. Anyway, I cannot afford all the fancy tests at the moment. 

Im just going to bring him to the spca on Monday so he doesnt "suffer" anymore. 

Thanks for those who did help


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Pro plan is mostly grains

Dog Food Reviews - Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach Formula - Powered by ReviewPost

Why don,t you feed your own Raw dog food like Ranger. She probably be glad to help your dog.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

2Retrievers222 said:


> Pro plan is mostly grains
> 
> Dog Food Reviews - Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach Formula - Powered by ReviewPost
> 
> Why don,t you feed your own Raw dog food like Ranger. She probably be glad to help your dog.


He was on raw for 2 years. I cannot feed high quality grain free food because he gets liquid poos on them. He is staying on Pro Plan Salmon/rice its the only thing that made him have normal stools. 

I cant deal with this anymore. Every one is claiming hes suffering so I am just going give him to the spca so he doesnt suffer anymore. I cannot afford the every 6 months of blood work associated with long term prednisone use.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Can,t find Orijen Raw dog food. Did yoy have to un thaw it before feeding?


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Lincoln_16 said:


> I cant deal with this anymore. Every one is claiming hes suffering so I am just going give him to the spca so he doesnt suffer anymore. I cannot afford the every 6 months of blood work associated with long term prednisone use.


Having a temper tantrum on the forum certainly isn't helping your dog or you. Why don't you take a break from here and cool off and rethink the threat you keep on making of taking your dog to the SPCA.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

That is the impression everyone is giving me that I should do. I cannot afford all these tests all at once. I can only do so much at one time. Since hes suffering according to people here I dont want him to. 

I fed my own raw I bought from the grocery store. I used the 80/10/10 prey model guildines


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Lincoln_16 said:


> That is the impression everyone is giving me that I should do. I cannot afford all these tests all at once. I can only do so much at one time. Since hes suffering according to people here I dont want him to.
> 
> I fed my own raw I bought from the grocery store. I used the 80/10/10 prey model guildines


 
Go back to that. If he had no medical problems on it, only runs. Better then putting your dog down


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

He had issues on raw. Still itched like mad and stopped digesting bone it just kept coming out like it went in. He kept getting sick on it. Was good for 1.5 years then suddenly started to have issues I think was contributed to his crappy immune system and not being able to handle the bacteria properly etc. 

I really dont wish to fee my dog something that gives him constant runs multiple times a day. Pro plan has made him have normal stools and he stay on that for now until I run an allergy test to see whats bothering him


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

Lincoln_16 said:


> If people wish to help my dog they can do so without being rude.


You know it's a two way street, right? In thread after thread, everytime someone tries to help you, you reply with some argument and keep repeating the same things over and over. I'm done trying to help you. Please extend my sincerest condolences to any vet you choose to inflict yourself on.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Hey, Sarah, ditto that.. I gave up many threads ago...


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Neither of you two ever helped me anyway so no need to get on your high horse. 

Im done here. The attitude of many here are just to much for me. Hes going to the spca Monday. Thanks for making my dog suffer death


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Lincoln_16 said:


> Im done here. The attitude of many here are just to much for me. Hes going to the spca Monday. Thanks for making my dog suffer death


I'm really sorry... but I'm not sure who you are trying to impress by making statements like this. Other than goading people to think really poorly of you. This is all very infantile. And I'm sorry about being harsh here, but we are all dog lovers here.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Lincoln_16 said:


> Neither of you two ever helped me anyway so no need to get on your high horse.
> 
> Im done here. The attitude of many here are just to much for me. Hes going to the spca Monday. Thanks for making my dog suffer death


 
There is a German Sheperd Forum out there. Maybe they can help you with the same health problems you have. For Golden Retrievers we know, stay away from corn(gluten)

Maybe theres something your breed must stay away from.

If your going to give him away, German Sheperd Forum would be the best place to post him on.

German Shepherd Dog Forums


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Not sure what you want me to do. You claim hes suffering, so because I cannot afford all these fancy tests you think I should do in order to be a "good owner" ill just bring him to the spca and they can deal with him. 

People bring their dogs there every day. Now you think its a bad thing after indirectly suggesting I do it...


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## VickiR (Jun 16, 2011)

This is insane.
Didn't you say you were leaving?:wave:


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

No...its insane when people on a forum say the dog is suffering and when the owner suggests ending that suffering everyone suddenly thinks its cruel.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Did you read my solution. 

There is a German Sheperd Forum out there. Maybe they can help you with the same health problems you have. For Golden Retrievers we know, stay away from corn(gluten)

Maybe theres something your breed must stay away from.

If your going to give him away, German Sheperd Forum would be the best place to post him on.

German Shepherd Dog Forums


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I saw your reply. Hes not a German Shepherd. I will check the forum out a bit later. I am to stressed out to at the moment


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Almost the same. Here,s Belgian Malinois Forum. Join both if he has GS in him.Someone might be able to pin point problem

Belgian Malinois Forum - Page 1


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## C's Mom (Dec 7, 2009)

Lincoln_16 said:


> Im done here. The attitude of many here are just to much for me. Hes going to the spca Monday. Thanks for making my dog suffer death


I hardly know what to say. I think you need to walk away from this thread and perhaps this forum for a while until things/you calm down. Perhaps a mod can close this thread?


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I am not a mod, but I think we all need to walk away...


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## fudgedog (Feb 13, 2011)

As a outsider this thread should be closed it is getting out of hand.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I asked a simple question and suddenly someone turned it into a "If you cannot afford a million dollar vet bill you shouldnt own an animal". Then when I said I would give him to the spca they flipped out. Tell me I am cruel for keeping him with me and cruel for giving him up...


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## bioteach (Nov 13, 2010)

I'd like to interject here without taking sides. Our dear Buckskin (waiting for us at the Bridge) was the epicenter of itchy ears. He had one hematoma after another and his ear flaps were extremely heavy. I talked with my vet (who was also a personal friend) about "quilting" Bucky's ears. He tacked the layers together every centimeter or so. There were faint scars on the inside but the outside of the flap looked normal. No docking whatsoever - and it didn't seem to bother Bucky at all.

We did that when Bucky was three - and for the next 10 years he never had another hematoma!


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

How is that done tho? When he had his ear repaired the vet told me he stitched it so it would never happen again in that same spot. How could I get it so it never happens again in either ear?


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Here is a picture of what the previous vet did. Not sure what kind of suture or technique this was










He told me it would never happen in that same spot again


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## bioteach (Nov 13, 2010)

He just put in a small stitch every cm or so covering the entire inner surface of the flaps. Worked like a charm!


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

*Arnica for Hematomas*

*Whole bunch of info*



Arnica for Hematomas? - German Shepherd Dog Forums


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

I AM TOTALLY AGAINST CROPPING EARS AND DOCKING TAILS FOR "STYLE, FASHION, ETC." BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, SOMETIMES THESE PROCEDURES ARE NECESSARY FOR THE HEALTH OF THE DOG. IF THERE IS NO OTHE CHOICE, THEN IT SHOULD BE DONE.

I REMEMBER THIS DESCUSSION ON ALN ALL BREED FORUM ONCE AND I HAD TO BUST OUT LUAHGING (AS DID SEVERAL OF US APPARENTLY) FOR REASONS GIVEN. FOR INSTANCE--DOBIES EARS ARE CROPPED SO BAD GUYS CAN'T RAB THEM BY THE EARS, AND THEIR TAILS ARE DOCKS SO THE BAD GUY'S PARTNER CAN'T PULL THE DOBIE OFF THE LST GUY BY HIS TAIL.

TERRIERS TAILS ARE DOCKED SO THEY CAN TURN AROUND IN HOLES WHEN THEY GO TO GROWN AFTER SOEMTHING--YET ON THE DOG SHOWS THEY TALK ABOUT PEOPLE HAVING TO PULL THE DOGS OUT OF HOLES BY THEIR TAILS ONCE THEY RUN SOMETHING UNDER GROUND.

AND THIS ONE WAS FUNNY--I FORGET WHICH BREED, BUT ONE BREED OF HERDING DOG HAS IT'S TAIL REMOVED SO THE SHEEP CAN'T BITE IT OFF. tO THAT SOMEONE ASKED WHY COLLIES, ETC DIDN'T AHVE THEIR TAILS CUT OFF.

AND gERMAN SHORTHEARD POINTERS HAVE THEIR TAILS CUT OFF ABOUT AHLF WAY TO THE BODY TO KEEP FROM RIPPING THEM APART WHILE H=HUNTING. i FOUND THAT ODD-WE HAD POINBTERS AND USED THEM IN ROUGH TERRIAN AND IT IS TRUE THEY SOMETIMES DID GET A LITTLE BEAT UP ON THEIR TAILS, BUT WE NEVERA SINGLE PERSON THAT CUT THEIR POINTER'S TAIL OFF. AND I FIND IT ODD THAT IT IS ONLY THE GERMAN SHORTHAIRD POINTER THAT HAS HIS TAIL"TRIMMED."

i DON'T FIND ANY OF THOSE REASON LEGIT REAON FOR DOING THE CUTTING OF EARS AND TAIL. tHOSE ARE DONE BECAUE SOME TIME IN THE PAST SOMEONE DECIDED THAT MADE THE DOG "LOOK BETTER".

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND I HAVE READ OF DOGS WITH CHRONIC EAR INFECTIONS AND CROPPING THEIR EARS WAS THE ONLY CURE. i ALSO RECALL ANOTHER DOG WHO HAD BADLY DAMAGED HIS TAIL AND IT WAS REMOVED. aND WE HAD A FRIEND WHOSE eNGLISH SETTER HAD A LITTER AND ONE OF THE PUPPIES HAD A TIAL, BUT THERE WAS NO BONE IN IT--IT JUST HUNG STARIGHT DOWN. tHE VET CUT IT IT OFF FOR HEALTH REASONS.

SO I AM NOT SAYING DO IT OR DON'T DO IT, JUST DEPENDS ON WHAT THE VET THINGS WOULD BE BEST FOR YOUR DOG.


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## AlanK (Jun 28, 2008)

I think enough has been discussed and this thread has ran its course. 
It is closed for the Holiday's


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