# Help!!! Food switch potentially gone bad?



## SF Golden (Dec 10, 2008)

Hi All,

Biscuit has been on Purina Pro Plan since a pup, however, I wanted to wait until his 1st bday to make a switch. Yesterday I started the gradual transition from Pro Plan to Innova (regular Adult, *not* grain-free): 3/4 cup old food, 1/4 cup new food. I took advice from fellow Forum fans and had planned on doing the transition over 9-15 days. 

Today is Day 2 and he threw up a frothy white liquid with a bit of food toward the end of the day (gums remain nice and pink), then the diarrhea kicked in. So far tonight he's had 100% soft diarrhea...a liquid fest!  He has not thrown up since a couple hours ago.

The lady at the local pet supply (where I bought the Innova) says Innova may be too rich. Any thoughts? I've decided not to feed him tonight and ensure he has plenty of water.

I know the food debate is a big one, but has anyone seen these reactions before, then tried something else or have you gone back to the regular diet.

Thanks!
Mom-in-distress


----------



## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

I've had the same trouble with Oakly. I've tried a number of the "Better" foods and even added pumpkin to try to beat the soft stool issue. I have finally gone back to a WalMart food (Beneful) and both boys seem to be doing well on it.


----------



## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

You could either slow down the switch (keep in mind that it's very likely the new food is more concentrated and he'll eat a LOT less - look up the calories etc.. and use that as a rough guide), or add some pumpkin to both foods to help things along. 

I'm doing the same thing with the cat, but from raw to kibble, and she's having the same sort of issue - not fun. What I've done though is given smaller amounts of the new food mixed with white rice, in 5 or so tiny meals a day, with slippery elm mixed in. Not just slippery elm but a herbal 'gastro' blend to sooth things over, as well as probiotics and digestive enzymes. 

The other option is to withhold all food for 24 hours, then do pumpkin and the new kibble, plus probiotics, digestive enzymes and slippery elm in 1/4 of the 'new' amount twice a day and then slowly increase depending on things...

Good luck!

Lana


----------



## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I would not feed him tonight. Then tomorrow morning start him on cooked hamburger/rice mixture and then slowly give the food. Mine couldnt take the richer foods, so we keep them on the Purina ProPlan sensitive skin and stomach. They have been doing great on the ProPlan.


----------



## SF Golden (Dec 10, 2008)

Thanks All! BeauShel...I totally hear you, I may just end up back at Purina ProPlan C&R!!!


----------



## Noey (Feb 26, 2009)

Noah is on the sensitive diet plan from science diet. I switched him over from Science ZD, and the sensitive plans seem to transition much better. I might go back to ZD as he seemed to enjoy it more...the new stuff is "take it or leave it."

He was taking some of the puppy food from Scout and within a few days his system was all messedup...so it's amazing what the food can do to these guys. Noah was barfing for about two days - all food related.


----------



## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

Dear Mom in Distress:

Sorry to hear the food transition is not going smoothly. For now, I would revert to what you know works (ProPlan) for the rest of the week to make sure his system stablizes. Then, if you still want to try the Innova, take a _very_ slow transition (Natura actually recommends a full month when changing to their foods), starting with no more than 1/5th new to 4/5ths old and (assuming he can tolerate), keep him at that ratio for a week. Then, if all remains well, try 1/4 new to 3/4 old for a week (or even 1/3 new to 2/3 old if he can tolerate - sometimes they more quickly adapt the farther into the transition cycle). Half & half the following week followed by 3/4 new to 1/4 old for the final week of transition. If at any point things start to go awry, go back to the last ratio of new to old he was doing well with, let things stablize and then proceed with the transition at a more gradual rate.

Also, keep in mind, Innova is quite low in fiber, so it might not hurt to supplement some fiber (i.e. canned pumpkin - careful not to add too much though as excessive amounts of it can actually _cause_/worsen diarrhea) during the transition. Supportive probiotics may also help ease transition if necessary. And make sure not to overfeed as doing so with rich foods such as Innova can also cause stool issues. And last by not least, while Innova is a great food, as with any food, it does not work for every dog, so you may want to try transitioning to a different food or simply sticking with what works for now (many dogs seem to do quite well on ProPlan in the longterm).

Hope things improve quick and you find the best solution for your pooch!


----------



## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

SF Golden said:


> Thanks! BeauShel...I totally hear you, I may just end up back at Purina ProPlan C&R!!!


I would. It is one of the better ones regardless of what the grain free rating sites tell you.


----------



## SF Golden (Dec 10, 2008)

Hi Garfield,

Thanks for your feedback. Here I thought I was doing the right thing....Honestly, Biscuit was doing fine on ProPlan (with the exception of loose stools for awhile, which now we believe was linked to his battle with giardia), but I bought into the hype of no byproducts, fillers, corn, wheat, etc. :doh: The ProPlan formula we use also has soy. I just felt so bad when the diarrhea was out of control and he vomitted. Today he's doing ok, just relaxing at home...no vomitting since yesterday's episode, but no poop since last night so that will be the true tale later on! I decided to work from home today to keep an eye out.

The owner at our local feed supply did indicate that while Innova is great food, it is very rich and as you noted below, some dogs don't do well on certain foods. She recommended Castor & Pollux, but at this point I just don't know?! This is the first food switch we've done...

Do you or anyone know how long it takes for a dog to react to the new food? In this case, it was Day 2, adding only 1/4 cup of new kibble.

Thanks!



Garfield said:


> Dear Mom in Distress:
> 
> Sorry to hear the food transition is not going smoothly. For now, I would revert to what you know works (ProPlan) for the rest of the week to make sure his system stablizes. Then, if you still want to try the Innova, take a _very_ slow transition (Natura actually recommends a full month when changing to their foods), starting with no more than 1/5th new to 4/5ths old and (assuming he can tolerate), keep him at that ratio for a week. Then, if all remains well, try 1/4 new to 3/4 old for a week (or even 1/3 new to 2/3 old if he can tolerate - sometimes they more quickly adapt the farther into the transition cycle). Half & half the following week followed by 3/4 new to 1/4 old for the final week of transition. If at any point things start to go awry, go back to the last ratio of new to old he was doing well with, let things stablize and then proceed with the transition at a more gradual rate.
> 
> ...


----------



## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

I'm sorry that you've had a rough 1st day or two with the food transition. IMO Garfield has give you some good suggestions. As already mentioned, you usually don't need to feed as much of formulas that have fewer fillers but more calories.

I'm always a little perplexed when I hear the phrase "the food is too rich". It's a very vague term, but I often hear it applied to meat-based protein formulas using simple ingredients with fewer fillers. That type of formula actually is what I try to feed any dog of mine. When switching for the first time from a food with lots of fillers to one with fewer, it can take a little longer. It seems like it takes a while for the digestive system to clear itself of the old food and get used to a food with a different nutrition focus.

Natura's Innova, California Natural, and EVO are very low in fiber compared to most formulas. When using them in my dogs' rotation, I find I usually add a tablespoon of plain canned pumpkin to their meals. Innova has lots of ingredients and not all dogs handle that well. The California Natural formulas are very simple limited ingredient formulas that some dogs do better with. Or Natura's Healthwise formula (a reasonably-priced 35 lbs. for $36.50) offers a meat-based formula with grains but has more fiber.

I hope things improve. I think 2 days is a little early to throw in the towel on the whole concept of a food change.


----------



## SF Golden (Dec 10, 2008)

Thanks, MyBently! Garfield did provide great advice so I will definitely take it! I'll continue to monitor...I'm just not sure how long the diarrhea should continue before I decide "this isn't working". But agreed, don't want to throw in the towel so quickly.



MyBentley said:


> I'm sorry that you've had a rough 1st day or two with the food transition. IMO Garfield has give you some good suggestions. As already mentioned, you usually don't need to feed as much of formulas that have fewer fillers but more calories.
> 
> I'm always a little perplexed when I hear the phrase "the food is too rich". It's a very vague term, but I often hear it applied to meat-based protein formulas using simple ingredients with fewer fillers. That type of formula actually is what I try to feed any dog of mine. When switching for the first time from a food with lots of fillers to one with fewer, it can take a little longer. It seems like it takes a while for the digestive system to clear itself of the old food and get used to a food with a different nutrition focus.
> 
> ...


----------



## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

SF Golden said:


> Hi Garfield,
> 
> Thanks for your feedback. Here I thought I was doing the right thing....Honestly, Biscuit was doing fine on ProPlan (with the exception of loose stools for awhile, which now we believe was linked to his battle with giardia), but I bought into the hype of no byproducts, fillers, corn, wheat, etc. :doh: The ProPlan formula we use also has soy. I just felt so bad when the diarrhea was out of control and he vomitted.


Don't be too hard on yourself - you absolutely are trying to do the right thing for your dog and are doing right in the process. As to trying to determine what constitutes good ingredients, The Dog Food Project site (http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=main is an excellent resource in sorting through ingredients (the "commercial dry foods" section may be particularly helpful to you in this). Ultimately though, the two single most important things in finding a dog food are 1) the dog has to like the food and 2) the food has to like the dog.




> Do you or anyone know how long it takes for a dog to react to the new food? In this case, it was Day 2, adding only 1/4 cup of new kibble.


I wish I had an answer for you, but every dog is different. Digestive upset can onset immediately or at any point throughout the transition (usually more common towards the beginning, but sometimes can occur with increased exposure to the new food). I concur with Bentley that "too rich" is a rather nebulous term and it can often be traced to a change in fiber/fat/protein levels, protein sources or caloric density/overfeeding - other times it may be exposure to new & more "exotic" ingredients. 

Not sure what Proplan and Innova formulas you're attempting, but willing to bet the fiber difference between the two is an issue. If Biscuit is back to normal stools in a few days, I'd give the Innova another go, taking things super slow and adding some pumpkin to increase the fiber and help regulate the stool (also take care to keep his daily calorie intake the same throughout the transition). If he runs into trouble with it again, I'd back off the Innova and maybe try a "stepping stone" food in the process (I like the Healthwise suggestion if necessary - a great food in & of itself, it would give Biscuit an introduction to a a Natura food that is somewhere between the ProPlan and the Innova).

Hope this helps!

p.s. Some dogs can also be more sensitive to food changes earlier or later in their lives or following illness. Has the giardia been completely resolved and how long ago?


----------



## SF Golden (Dec 10, 2008)

Thanks, Garfield! Such great advice. My head is spinning from all the reading about ingredients, etc! :bowl: Biscuit has been on dry Pro Plan Adult Chicken & Rice and I was transitioning him to Innova Adult Dry. However, I do have an update! 

Biscuit is doing better since Monday night. I went back to the local feed store the following morning and she again thought Innova could be too much for him, so she recommended Castor & Pollux Organix (sold at her store) and exchanged the Innova. Not as "rich"...the favorite word of the day. I figured I'd give it a go since she only sells brands like Innova, EVO, Orijen, Acana, etc. Knock on every piece of wood you can find, he's been doing well the last couple days!!! Stool is smaller, but looking good. I've only been putting in a 1/4 cup of new food and plan to transition over a longer period...just monitor and see how it goes. Here's a link to the new food:
http://www.castorpolluxpet.com/store/organix/organix_adult_canine_formula

Re: giardia, like many on the Forum, Biscuit has battled it on-and-off since about 6 mths old (he just turned 1). However, it's been a couple months since his last flare up and he fights it off much faster than when he was younger. We practice stringent hygiene here, but he does go to doggy daycare and also socializes with many dogs-- he can pick it up there.




Garfield said:


> Don't be too hard on yourself - you absolutely are trying to do the right thing for your dog and are doing right in the process. As to trying to determine what constitutes good ingredients, The Dog Food Project site (http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=main is an excellent resource in sorting through ingredients (the "commercial dry foods" section may be particularly helpful to you in this). Ultimately though, the two single most important things in finding a dog food are 1) the dog has to like the food and 2) the food has to like the dog.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

Wonderful update! The fact the digestive issues seems to have resolved with the ProPlan/C&P (looks like a great formula btw!) really makes me suspect it was the low fiber of the Innova causing the issue - just something to monitor if you rotate foods in the future (his systems may also be developing/recovering from the giardia, so maybe he'll adjust better in the future). Wish you continued success!


----------



## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

How about feeding him the Innova kibble as treats for a few days? Two of my dogs do well on Innova, but one needs Eagle Pack Hollistic stomach-wise. Eagle Pack Hollistic is very mild and easy.


----------



## SF Golden (Dec 10, 2008)

Thanks Ljilly28! Knock on wood, he's been doing well on the Castor & Pollux "Organix" (link above this post) the last four days so I'm sticking to it! Gave up on Innova too soon after the diarrhea and vomitting on Monday...but yes, I know many people who swear by Innova! Truly unique for every dog.



Ljilly28 said:


> How about feeding him the Innova kibble as treats for a few days? Two of my dogs do well on Innova, but one needs Eagle Pack Hollistic stomach-wise. Eagle Pack Hollistic is very mild and easy.


----------



## jenlaur (Jun 24, 2009)

SF Golden: this isn't really addressing your issue but I thought I'd respond anyway. We are getting our new golden pup tomorrow! Woo hoo! I have been reading up on dog foods and decided that after a couple of weeks I would slowly start changing her over to Wellness. I have a 13 year old weimaraner that I just started the switch on a few days ago (wanted her on better food and hope to be able to feed them both the same in several months). I started by adding about 10% of the Wellness to her Nutro. I increased it today by a little more and so far so good. No stomach upset and poos are firm. I am hoping by the end of next week to have made the switch. I was a little concerned about switching such an old dog at this point in her life but she's pretty hearty to so I figured she could handle it. Good luck with your food issues!


----------



## SF Golden (Dec 10, 2008)

Congratulations jenlaur on your new pup...yeah!!!  I'm glad to hear you haven't experienced stomach upset and have firm poops with your weimaraner. Update on Biscuit...he's on day 7 with the new kibble (Castor & Pollux Organix: Chicken & Rice) and knock on wood, doing well. We've now got him on 1/2 cup new, 1/2 cup old. Keeping our fingers crossed! Enjoy your new pup and best wishes!



jenlaur said:


> SF Golden: this isn't really addressing your issue but I thought I'd respond anyway. We are getting our new golden pup tomorrow! Woo hoo! I have been reading up on dog foods and decided that after a couple of weeks I would slowly start changing her over to Wellness. I have a 13 year old weimaraner that I just started the switch on a few days ago (wanted her on better food and hope to be able to feed them both the same in several months). I started by adding about 10% of the Wellness to her Nutro. I increased it today by a little more and so far so good. No stomach upset and poos are firm. I am hoping by the end of next week to have made the switch. I was a little concerned about switching such an old dog at this point in her life but she's pretty hearty to so I figured she could handle it. Good luck with your food issues!


----------



## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Glad he is doing better. I did a food switch last spring and lived to regret it. Gunner's hair fell out and he lost more than 10 pounds! I put him back on his Nature's Variety Salmon and his coat is now back to it's glossy thick self and he is back to his healthy weight. I will NEVER do that again!!!!


----------

