# Thought the JBG was done.....:(



## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

Hi everyone,
Just returned from the second walk of the day with Bridget (5 months) .and I have 2 new bite cuts on my arm to prove it.

We have been doing much better, and I thought the biting, jumping, grabbing, had stopped, but tonight...we walked a section of the park we had walked previously, where she had much of that same behavior.....

And she JBG'd me 4 times. 
The walk out 20 minutes was good, she was heeling, and watching me, and it was very enjoyable.

The walk back, wasn't.
She seemed to get the zoomies, not too much fun being on the end of a leash, then started jumping, growling, snarling, and attempting to bite me.

I attempted to get her into a sit. I attempted to calm her, speaking in a low, calm voice. I waited, thought she was calm, and proceeded to walk again.no such luck.

Then I attempted to do what the personal trainer told me to do, hang her by the collar, and when her feet want to grasp the floor, release her.
Which I don't like to do.
Well, that's hard for me to do, I'm only 5'0" and 110#

Anyway, after I got her in a firm grip with the collar twisted, she calmed down, I waited, and we continued the rest of the walk to the car, without incident.

PLEASE, if anyone can give me some insight?

Also, I had a lightbulb moment, and realized this path we were on, it's where most of this behavior takes place......
Can it be too much dog traffic in this area that sets her off?

I'm at my wit's end I really thought this behavior was over.....

Thank you all so much.....

Diane


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

I think she will grow out of it. My Oakly used to do the same thing on the last few minutes of our walks when he was about her age. I used to have him sit/stay and try to wait out the crazy antics. With Oakly this phase didn't last for more than a few months.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

mooselips said:


> Then I attempted to do what the personal trainer told me to do, *hang her by the collar*, and when her feet want to grasp the floor, release her.


Seriously?  She's only 5 months old. You could damage her neck, she's still growing. Sorry, but I can't imagine doing this to any puppy or dog. All 4 feet off the ground?!? If I saw anyone doing this to their dog, I'd go off on 'em.

I just can't imagine that there's no better way to deal with this issue. I hope some of the trainers here will give their advice for a better solution...


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

I am not comfortable with this, either.
And it's really a moot issue, cause I can't do it.
He also recommended a slip collar. 
I use and have remained with a flat collar......Altho' some days I question that when she pulls alot, but I am seeing progress on that point.


This trainer was recommended by the breeder I bought the dog from.

The trainer.......believes this problem originated b/c this pup was housed with another male 3 weeks older than her.........and he feels that I am viewed as the long gone littermate. Crazy?

I don't know, but someone needs to give me some sort of solution to this, my arms were just healing.

Really....the behavior has really diminished greatly.
It just seems like she gets WAY overexcited, and then it begins.
And I cannot seem to calm her. 
I don't think choking her is going to solve the problem.....that sounds definitely wrong.


I was at the point I didn't want to take her walking........yikes.

But I am hoping this is all puppy nonsense, and it will completely go away......


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Hanging her by her neck is totally the wrong thing to do. Fire that trainer ASAP! Horrible advice.

I would buy a chain leash first of all, that will keep her from trying to grab the leash in her mouth. I would also carry some high value treats on the walks and when you turn to go home, show her the treats and go through small obedience steps every once in a while. Make turning around a GOOD thing instead of a bad thing and her attitude will change.

Good luck and please stop hanging her by her neck. That was just horrible advice from your "trainer".


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Invest in a front clip harness, your arms will thank you for it. It will give you much better control without the pain for either of you - I use one on my 75 lb boy and it has made life a whole lot easier! 
Her behavior could be triggered by what is going on - too many dogs, too much stimulation or simply the need to get her 'jollies' out. Your walks should include some 'just be a dog' time interspersed with 'serious' training - it should not be all work - no play. Perhaps a short playtime in the yard before taking her out might help.

I am horrified that a 'trainer' would suggest you 'dangle a dog' to correct a behavior issue- that (regardless whether you can physically/mentally do it or not) is just bad advice and abuse (IMO) and can have long term side effects and cause physical injury.


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

Well, it sounds like she is definitely making progress though, I mean since she was so good the first half of the walk. It may be that the walk's length was more focus & concentration than she could muster.... maybe she just got overtired? For the first 20 minutes she was looking up at you and heeling - this skill takes an immense amount of concentration, esp. for a puppy. I wonder if decreasing the length of your walks and slowly increasing the length would help set her up for success?


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

Not to worry, I never did suspend her......Good grief doesn't that sound awful.......but us novices aren't sure what to believe when you have someone "supposedly" an expert, recommended by the breeder......
My mistake. He was only here for 3 sessions....and I let him go.

I always bring high quality treats, today was a jerky kind of treat, and reward her as we go, so that part is all good.

Also, I try to make it enjoyable for her, she finds a stick on the path, carry that for a while...this a.m. she was VERY interested in goose poo...).we won't be walking that path any time soon again.) 
BUT, on that path, I did not have this behavior...

It could be pent up energy......we didn't walk yesterday due to the weather...the very first time we didn't walk since we brought her home.

I am thinking maybe I'll also stick a favorite toy in my pocket...to divert her direction from the JBG, to the toy?

Egads....
Thanks for all your help......I greatly appreciate it.


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

Also, a "front end harness" is that the same thing as a "gentle leader?"
I bought a gentle leader, tried it out in the backyard a couple times, but the poor girl just keeps trying to get it off her nose, even with bazillions of treats....

I can keep trying.......

Could you show me a picture?

I'll try googling it too.....


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Here is the Easy Walk Harness:

Easy Walk Harness Product Description - Premier Pet


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

mooselips said:


> Also, a "front end harness" is that the same thing as a "gentle leader?"
> I bought a gentle leader, tried it out in the backyard a couple times, but the poor girl just keeps trying to get it off her nose, even with bazillions of treats....
> 
> I can keep trying.......
> ...


Google- EasyWalk harness or Sensation Harness - I use both and find they work quite well. I did find the Sense-ible harness made by Sensation easier to fit than the EasyWalk.


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

Okay, I ordered the Sensation harness.......
Crossing my fingers.....this helps solve the problem...

In the meantime, I think we're going to stick to short walks, other than the path we were on today......

I just find it strange it always seems to occue multiple times on that specific path.......

Thank you for all your help everyone.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I did find the Sense-ible harness made by Sensation easier to fit than the EasyWalk.[/QUOTE said:


> I second the sense-ible harness.


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

Well trial and error, I'll try the Sensation to start.....


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

mooselips said:


> Also, a "front end harness" is that the same thing as a "gentle leader?"
> I bought a gentle leader, tried it out in the backyard a couple times, but the poor girl just keeps trying to get it off her nose, even with bazillions of treats....
> 
> I can keep trying.......
> ...


The Easy Walk Harness fits on the body around the shoulders and chest, the leash clips to the front of the chest. The Gentle Lead head halter is the one that fits on the nose. I think the Gentle Lead head halter might help you more with your specific problem, did you watch the video that comes with it? It should have given you training methods for getting her to accept the head halter.








Amazon.com: Easy Walk Harness - Small/Medium, Red: Home & Kitchen


Have you tried throwing the ball in the yard for her for 30 minutes or longer before you leave for your walk? Burning off more energy before the walk might help with the crazy puppy behavior.

You might also try stepping on the leash when she starts this, short enough that she can't jump up on you because you are standing on the leash, and try to keep your side or back towards her until she calms down. 

She is only 5 months old, and she will grow out of this. But please don't try to string her up by neck anymore, find a different trainer with more positive methods.

Where are you located? Maybe someone on the board can recommend a good trainer.


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

I am located in Northern Ohio. 30 miles South of Clevelnad.

I do step on the leash, I did that initially.
If I step on the leash, she bites my legs.




The problem is I'm way short.....and 
I'm not as strong as I use to be, being 61 years old.



We have had 4 previous dogs, never had an issue with any of them, and none of them attended obedience school. 2 Chocolate Labs, 2 English Setters. This is our first Golden.

This gal has finished her First Petsmart puppy class, and we just began classes at Airdog.....

I am trying desperately to keep her busy, and to educate her, she is a real Einstein.....

AND she's a sweetheart......really.


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

mooselips said:


> AND she's a sweetheart......really.


She looks like a sweetheart 

I think it is great that you are trying so hard to work through this. A lot of people would give up and just not walk their dog. 

I bet you anything she outgrows this with time and practice on the leash . 

She is such a pretty girl!


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

Well, this a.m. we are tackling another walk........a short 30 minute walk...
on a path we had no problems with before.........we'll see how it goes.


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

Okay, different path. We have a zillion of them around here.

Anyway, we walked around a loop for 15 minutes.....I was just about to start the second loop around and quit, when she started JBG, I immediately said "Want a cookie?" Absolutely not thinking.she sat, then I did reward her.
NOW, I'm worried she'll think she was rewarded for the JBG, instead of the sit. After that I hustled her to my car, and we came home.

One more thing, she is into this habit of constantly being rewarded for walking, heeling well. She has her eyes glued to mine, waiting for the treat.

Does this go away in time?
Should she be rewarded for walking good?
I was under the assumption the WALK was the REWARD.

Good golly, I need help.

But when I took her to the Airdog class last week, I mentioned to the instructor I was having a problem with occasional pulling, she said "Watch, she won't pull with me" and proceeded to walk with her, while rewarding her.........I said, well for sure if I keep giving her treats she won't pull..

Advice?


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## Capt Jack (Dec 29, 2011)

I have the easy walk it works great for me.Jack hated the gentle leader too


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

She is a perfect candidate for the harness. You will be amazed at the difference once it is fitted properly. Good luck!


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

If she walks good, I would keep rewarding her. And keep rewarding her. It is so much better than what the trainer advised you to do, eventually it will become second nature for her to walk nice without the pulling, jumping, grabbing and you can wean her off the treats. It might take a while, be patient and consistent. She will get there.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Can you ask for a private home training session and let the trainer observe her on the walk where she starts the jumping and grabbing? It sounds like someone needs to see when and why she starts so they can help you find a way to redirect her.

She's really little, maybe the walks are too long? I don't know, just brain storming.


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

When I had the trainer, he was here for 3 sessions, and the JBG's seemed to mostly subside.

And, I didn't agree with his tactics, so I told him I didn't need him anymore. B/c that was why I had him here to start with.

Then he started into training her to stay, lay down, play dead...which she mostly was already doing.

I am going to mention the problem to the trainer at Airdog and see what she says.

This afternoon, we were out in the back learning how to retrieve, (I do it very well, by the way) and then she started with biting the leash, then jumping, biting me. But I can see she gets hyper excited, and it's PLAY for her......me, not so much....lol

But good grief, she plays it to fell tilt! Growling, baring her teeth, jumping, and of course, attempting to bite. My arms are just starting to heal..seriously, you would laugh to look at my arms the bruises, and healing cuts.

Anyway, I got her into a sit.....something else, a leaf blowing or something caught her attention, and she immediately settled.

Perhaps I need to use the word "settle" more......

She's a work in progress, this high spirited gal.....(her, not me)


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## Sosoprano (Apr 27, 2011)

A trainer I know recommends a technique using the word “settle”. When the pup is being a bouncy brat, you slowly straddle her, facing the same way she is facing. Then you interlace your fingers under her arms across her chest, say “settle”, and gently raise her front end until JUST her FRONT paws are off the ground. If she squirms, just keep holding calmly and quietly saying “settle” until she stops. As soon as she is quiet, you lower her front paws back to the ground and reward her in a low-energy kind of way, so she doesn’t get all revved up again. 

I don’t know if I’ve described it well, but it seems like a nice calming technique, and I’ve seen it work on some pretty boingy pups. After a minute they sort of realize that they’re standing there as if waiting for the next dance, and they look a little sheepish :


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I may be the last kid on my block to know this but: what is JBG?

Also, as far as evaluating advice goes I follow this general rule: if I don't want it done to me, I don't do it to my animals. 

That goes all the way from sticking their hands in my dinner plate, throwing me to the ground and holding me on my back to hanging me. 

So, you were right to go with your gut feeling. Always!


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

JBG is my abbreviation of jumping biting grabbing!....lol

Thanks Sosoprano, I will try that next time we get the over excitments!


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## BriGuy (Aug 31, 2010)

mooselips said:


> Perhaps I need to use the word "settle" more......
> 
> She's a work in progress, this high spirited gal.....(her, not me)


I was going to suggest this, but first make sure she knows what "settle" means. 

We taught Cookie a Relax command, because she was getting a little jumpy on the leash when she was a pup. First we taught the Relax, which is pretty much a down, but not as rigid (our trainer wanted to use a different cue in case we ever did obedience)...meaning that Cookie was free to shift position, etc.

Once she had that learned, we slowly began to get her worked up, usually by playing tug, and then stopping the game by saying "Relax". Once she was down in a Relax, we clicked and treated. The basic idea was to get her to be better able to go from excited to a calm state.

Also, one thing I have observed with this issue, is that if you are really waiting for your dog to start jumping on the leash, you are probably not relaxed yourself, and this feeds into the dog's stress, which makes her jump...etc.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Ah...thanks. I'm always late to the party!


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## Tucker's mommy (Nov 9, 2011)

I so feel your pain! I know we've exchanged messages on this behavior before. Like I said with our Tucker, getting him involved in short training exercises when he started up with these episodes worked wonders for us. He no longer shows any of this behaviour on leash now - he is 11 months old. We are still working on his behaviour when out in the yard, though . He will have these excited episodes outside where he jumps/bites/growls at us, and it's not fun. The behaviourist comes this weekend - we'll keep you posted on what she suggests for us, because it might help you, too.


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## Tucker's mommy (Nov 9, 2011)

To BriGuy - we have got to give this "calm down" game a try with our Tucker when he's out in the yard and about to get hyped up. I'm hoping the behaviourist this weekend will help us better read the signals so we can click/treat at the appropriate time...


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

mooselips said:


> then she started with biting the leash, then jumping, biting me. But I can see she gets hyper excited, and it's PLAY for her......me, not so much....lol
> 
> But good grief, she plays it to fell tilt! Growling, baring her teeth, jumping, and of course, attempting to bite.


 
Does she get to play with other dogs much? Just thinking out loud... she and Zeke are about the same age... if I don't get him out to play rough with other dogs, he's a total PIA. I wonder if she isn't already playing w/ other dogs, maybe doing so would help get some of that restless rough energy out of her system. Your last sentence above describes almost exactly how Zeke plays with other dogs (well, minus the growling... he isn't that vocal when he plays).

I know a lot of people don't like dog parks, but I am so, so grateful for ours!


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

I have taken her to the dog park, and I always make sure I leash her when a new dog is coming in, just to be safe.

She does run and play with some, then some of them are older dogs and she just barks and plays at her feet, and encourages the older ones to get up and play.

The other day, we were all alone, and she was chasing butterflies. It was SOOO cute!

But, after she started the JBG's again, I thought maybe playing with other dogs was maybe detrimental, I'm just not sure...???

Maybe tomorrow, since I have a free day, we'll go to the dog park.

We've had a couple of undesirable dogs in there, one, in fact, had a thunder shirt on....I said Hey....the owner said, oh no she's friendly, she just has some insecurity issues, then she went after Bridget, and I said security issues my A$$ and she put the dog in her car.
NOW WHY would someone bring a dog like that to socialize with others?

The another, was an older male who constantly was trying to hump my dog.
The owner just laughed and told me, his dogs nickname was "Humper".
Me and Bridget left.

Dummies......

Wish we had a dog park here where you paid a fee, and swiped a card to get in.


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

That's a bummer . It doesn't sound like a great place. Ours is the kind where you pay a fee and swipe a fob to get in, and I think that helps. Maybe doggy day care would be a place where she could play? Too bad we don't live closer, I'd bring Zeke over, LOL


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

Yes, I'm thinking about doggy day care once a week, they have a GREAT place here.

But, no, unless she's at the dog park, she doesn't get to play with other dogs.

Thank you all......


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

mooselips said:


> I have taken her to the dog park, and I always make sure I leash her when a new dog is coming in, just to be safe.
> 
> She does run and play with some, then some of them are older dogs and she just barks and plays at her feet, and encourages the older ones to get up and play.
> 
> ...


 
A dogpark is a totally wrong place for a dog with 'insecurity' (fear) issues, nor should it be offleash, not only because they put other dogs at risk, but it also increases their level of anxiety, confirming what it already 'knew' and making matters worse.
'Humper' should never have been 'let loose' at the dogpark either.

A well run daycare can be a blessing for dogs who have 'energy' to spare, and give them the opportunity to socialize and learn from their own kind.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Just a note - I used the Gentle Leader with Max for ages and he became quite adept at getting his leg over the leash, so it defeated the whole purpose of the harness. I bought a Sporn, which hooks on the back, and it's been amazing for us. I think he's been possessed by a dog who doesn't pull! 
At 4 years old, at the end of a walk, he still gets excited and wants to grab the leash. I tell him "take Mommy for a walk!" and he will take the leash in his mouth and pull me along (with my willing co-operation, I'm usually laughing my head off by then). I used to get really upset with him for doing that, when I relaxed and made it a game, it became a lot easier on both of us.

Another question - are there any power lines where the trouble starts? We walked at one park for a while, and in one section, Max would ALWAYS go nuts. I finally realized it was a section where a lot of power lines crossed. It might be a coincidence, but then again, maybe not?


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Hello, sorry to hear you are having so many problems--have you tried the "gentle leader" type of head collar. We use it with Max, and it has worked wonders. It is a little tricky to put-on at first, and Max resisted at first, but once we were over the hump, he began walking perfectly.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

I understand about dog park. We have one nearby, and I have learned to be very cautious. Max, like many Goldens, is not dominant. When we see dogs that are not well socialized or are aggressive, we leave immediately.


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

Good morning,
I did buy the gentle leader deluxe.
And have tried, and tried, and watched the video and coaxed and cajoled, and bribed without success with Bridget leaving it alone on her nose. We can't get 3 steps and then she's lying on the ground pawing the darn thing.
If anyone would like to try it...I'll gladly send it on. It's medium for 25-60 pounds. 

Meanwhile, I just bought the Sensation Haness, so as soon as I receive that, I'll let you know how it all goes. If that doesn't appease her...(lol) I'll go to the Sporn harness...I think.

Today we are going to the Dog Park, then we have classes at Airdog this evening.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

The problem with harnesses is that you have no head control... I like the gentle leader for head control. I'm glad that you realize that stringing her up is bad idea...


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

yes, hanging animals or people is a very bad idea.

The gentle leader she continually keeps trying to pluck it off her nose.
Received the harness in the mail today, will give it a go tomorrow a.m.

Used it in the backyard, just to get it fitted and ready, and she seemed to do okay, until she laid down rolled on her side, and refused to budge......lol


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I love the English label: cheeky bugger. I think this fits her perfectly! She's a cheeky bugger and cute as a button! Hoping the harness works for you!


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## baumgartml16 (Jun 19, 2011)

She sounds like a replica of my Koda. We went through this exact same thing with Koda right about her age. We tried the harness and while it helped with the pulling it didn't stop the JBG. Honestly consistently stopping the behaviour best we could was what stopped it. Sometimes it took a few minutes but we would get her in a sit and then slowly pet her chest and tell her "calm" until she was settled. Then I would pull a treat out, tell her to heel, and "let's go"...she sometimes would have another round of it but usually taht was enough to resume the walk.

She has been good for a long time and now all of a sudden 3 times in the last week she has done it. I do believe over stimulation has something to do with it. I like to do what Tucker's mommy suggested and begin a mini training session. You distract them from whatever got them off track to begin with. 

Sorry you are going through this...I know how frustrating and aggravating it can be. (and painful..).


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

Okay an update.

Well...the harness was working pretty well, until she realized she can still pull on it. So, it's a slow road, stopping, waiting for her to come back, and get started again.

We started our walk this a.m. out 15 minutes, and all of a sudden, no leash biting, no warning, started jumping on me and biting. Broke my skin in 2 places. NO grabbing though...lol
I could not even get her into a sit.
Finally stepped on the leash and she laid down. I waiting a few minutes...ha ha thinking it was over...it wasn't...she started again.

We went to puppy class this evening, and as usual it was alot of pulling, and redirecting. But gosh, there's SOOO much distraction at this class.

I asked the instructor about the JB, and she said whenever she even MOUTHS at home to ignore her immediately and walk out of the room.

Please someone tell me this behavior is going to improve.
For right now, I am really going to shorten our walks to 10 minutes total.

Although she sure isn't going to get much exercise, or get tuckered out.

ANY suggestions would be appreciated. I am at my wits end, and my husband is suggesting a prong collar.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Yes, it will get better. 5 months is still really young to expect good walking habits, she still has a lot of learning to do. 

This almost sounds like she is afraid and panicking on your walks. I think you really need to get your trainer to come do a home session with you and go for a walk so they can see what is happening and give you some tips to directly work with whats happening. 

I also think you need to use the head harness, and take the time to desensitize her to it, it will give you so much more control and she can be taught to tolerate it.

Pinch collars can be great tools, but I don't think a pinch collar is the right tool for these problems, and definitely not for a 5 month old puppy.


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

If I may ask, what are your expectations of her during your walks? I'm not trying to be offensive, I'm just curious, are you expecting heeling or just casual polite walking? For the 15 minutes you were walking, was this strict heeling or a regular walk?


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

I just want a nice loose leash casual walk.
With me walking her, not her walking me..

There's no need for her to heel.

And I give her ample time to smell, and pick up everything in her wake. lol


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

Went on a walk this evening, short walk 30 minutes, she jumped and got me again. Bit me twice on my Left arm, drew blood. 4 puncture holes.

This time there was a man there walking his dog next to me, he said, Jeez, pull her up by the leash so she can't get at you! I can't hold her away from me, my arms are too short. 

When he yelled, she stopped. 

She did it again twice, when the man and I went different ways
I tried the straddling and hugging, almost got my face bit. Finally grabbed her collar...and was Houdini trying not to let her teeth get me again. She is snarling, growling, and biting.

This may be silly...but she seemed to get mad when I made her sit and stop playing with the other dog, so we could continue walking.
The next time, she bit after I tried to hold her off a treat. She is constantly nudging my hand. Positive verbal reinforcement doesn't do it, she WANTS that treat.

I'm at a loss here, sad, and so frustrated.
My husband is on the verge of angry.
I'm not walking her any time soon.

Also talking to the head of her doggy daycare if I can tomorrow.

I did ask about it at puppy class last night, the girl said she would mention it to the head honcho and she would call me. She never did.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

How long is your leash. Maybe you should shorten it up so you have more control?


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

I have a 5 foot...(I think) and the personal trainer put a loop in it about 10 inches away from her collar to give me more control......That's not helping to keep her far enough away not to bite me.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

mooselips said:


> I have a 5 foot...(I think) and the personal trainer put a loop in it about 10 inches away from her collar to give me more control......That's not helping to keep her far enough away not to bite me.


Sounds like she has alot of energy to be released. Do you have a yard where you can play retrieve before you take her on the walks? Or possible take her to a school and let her run before the walks? You did mention earlier that she likes to do zoomies while on the leash......sounds like she needs to run.


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

I (TRY TO) take her for a walk twice a day. lol

I take her to the dog park generally Tuesday mornings, no one usually is there but us, sometimes another dog...it's very big, I go from one end to the other and call her, and she'll run alot to me.

She goes to doggy daycare all day on Thursdays

I attempted to get her to play in the yard today on the long lead..(30 feet)
but she sometimes will go get the ball, mostly sits, lies down, or grazes for stuff to eat. BUT, she will come every time I call, TO GET THE TREAT.
She's not generally too interested in retrieving......

The other day we went completely around the lake near here...took our time took an hour, and she never jumped bit, nothing......she was fine.

So I sure can't predict when it's going to occur.

And I am the only one she does this behavior to.


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## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

Hi there,
Sorry you are having this issue but it will pass, really! Hang in there and stay consistent! Chester was the same, my girls would come home in tears, sometimes I could hear him growling and them telling him no before they reached the house. One time my daughter rang in tears for us to go get them, she couldnt cope with getting him home anymore..and they were just three minutes away! Who would think these little young pups could cause such distress! Or pain! Well hes a big 83lb dog now so we wouldnt want him doing it still so we are proof it can change! I hope that gives you hope!
Do you have a routine with her? I noticed you take her to the dog park on one day and daycare another, mentioned a walk round the lake on another..are there some set routines she has or do all days vary? I am wondering if she has some expectations and some of what you are experiencing is frustration...something we have noticed whilst Chesters been growing up is he gets grouchy when his routine is upset by a big margin. Hes adaptable and flexible to a fair degree but once the lines broken he sulks and sulks. Dogs love to know where they are at and what they shouod be doing and when..I dont have to look at the clock at 1pm because Chester is already at the window looking for Daddy to come home for lunch. At 4 he is looking for my daughter after school. At 4.30 he wants another wee, then he asks for supper. Etc etc.*
When I first saw the thread I thought Bridget was older, ...why are you worried about her being rewarded with treats for good behaviour? Eventually,..and I mean eventually, not at 5 months or 6 months...or even maybe a year..she will accept a squeek of a toy, a belly or chest rub, a yippe good girl..but right now a yummy treat when she has COMPLETED a task but never as a bribe or during a task is obviously the best way for her. Chester wasnt a foody dog so for us it was very difficult,..always having to find a very high value treat to make it work and the same applies now. I am envious that Bridget wants the treats!
Maybe its different there than here in the UK but our dogs are trained with treats a lot of the time, are shown with treats and its fine. When she is nudging then a firm and low tone NO or LEAVE should suffice followed by 'good girl' and a fuss as soon as she turns away from it but it must be as soon as she does so that she relates the action with the praise.
Something we were taught that we were doing wrong was to never give praise or a treat until a task is COMPLETE..not part way through..complete. Sometimes its easy to encourage them through something without realising but if they havent found their own way they havent learned properley. Maybe it would help to consider if you have ever been giving Bridget treats before completion that may have encouraged her to start this nudging? Its easily done!
We also used a lot of mental stimulation for Chester too and maybe that could be good for Bridget *to burn off some nervous energy. She sounds as if she has a clever brain and you could utilise it well. At 5 months we use a 5 minute walk for each month of life rule so a 30 minute walk wouldnt be considered 'short' and yard play, training and mental exercise is used to nurn off the extra energy.
I have a harness for Chester that links from his back, looking at a picture of the name you put in your post it links from the chest? That looks as if that would make it easy for her to still jump at you, the harness we use makes it nearly impossible. I have a very short lead for taking him in busy places and that I used in his 'jumping etc' phase, that and a new tone of voice for commands basically started the change. We also turned in a semi circle and walked back the way we had become even if we had to pull him. Once he walked nicely again we would turn back to the right direction and start walking to our correct destination and each time it took less and less steps. If he jumped or pulled again we headed back round and walked back and so forth. He looked sooo confused and really wanted to go the right way! I recall that it took us 20 minutes to walk a 5 minute patch on one occassion but then he walked like a feather and that was the beginning of a new Chester 
I can honestly say those days are a blur now and people say what a calm and well behaved dog he is. Hes a lovely character and all those awful puppy worries are all done and dusted. Yours will be too,..just stick with her and be firm and consistent. Start doing those semi circle turns as soon as she starts and she will wonder whats happening!  Whos the Mamma!? Aha, you! 
Just my two cents worth..for what its worth..just based on my own personal experience with Chester. Sorry its such an epic..have been to bed and come back down again...read this thread and thought I would chime in


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

mooselips said:


> I just want a nice loose leash casual walk.
> With me walking her, not her walking me..
> 
> There's no need for her to heel.
> ...


Yeah I think that is totally a reasonable expectation! I'm sorry you are dealing with this still. You are doing everything can to improve the situation it seems. I'm thinking she is sure to grow out of this. She does seem to have a LOT of energy!


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Mooselips, there are a couple of exercises that I think help calm an amped-up dog. One is puppy pushups. Teach her sit if she doesn't already know it and teach her down. Just before she's out of control, ask for a sit. Reward. Ask for a down. Reward. Ask for a sit. Follow this pattern (each sit, followed immediately by a down, is what I call a puppy pushup.) for as long as needed, until she's forgotten that she wants to torture you. Even with my old man Finn, I ask for a few pushups if he's being particularly recalcitrant about a command. 

The other thing that may help solve your problem is to let her play hard half way through the walk. If you don't have an enclosed tennis court or ball field within a 20-minute walk, this may require you to use a long line. Put a tennis racquet, five or six tennis balls in a tote to take on your walk (and include a squeaky toy, too). Even if she doesn't return the balls, she will likely run after them when you whack them with your racquet. They go really far with this method. Do this until she seems tired. Collect all your stuff and start home. Ask for some simple obedience exercises on the way home....a sit, a wait and be sure to treat for compliance.

This, too, shall pass but it's sometimes very hard to have patience when you're being physically hurt.


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## Tucker's mommy (Nov 9, 2011)

There are some really good tips here! I have to say - I know our Tucker is VERY much in tune with his routine. One of the reasons we used to have so much trouble with his rough rough play outside with us was that he expected hard play from us every time we went out at certain times during the day, and if he didn't get it, uh oh! So, we taught him to be more flexible by changing up the afternoon routine a bit and throwing in some obedience sessions in with the play. Now he knows that when he goes outside, he doesn't "DEMAND" play time. He EARNS it. Such an interesting point, though, about these pups and their tuned-in nature to their routine! Just last night, we were in the family room with Tucker instead of outside with him and the kids, because the weather was bad, and BOY, did he miss that outside playtime! I've never seen so much pillow humping in my life!!! 

I'm rooting for you and your pup! Things WILL get better, but it is so slow going with some of these pups. We still struggle with the rough play/nature of Tucker when he gets ramped up. In fact, he scratched my arm tonight when he got overexcited playing outside and jumped at me with his open mouth. And he's almost a year old! At least these occurances are now weekly instead of daily, when they were at their worst. Hang in there! :wave:


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## HoundSnout (Oct 27, 2011)

My 15-month old has anxiety issues, and he does the same thing. He is fine on the outbound walk, but starts the jumping/nipping as soon as we turn around to retrace the original outbound walk. Can you find a place where you can do a full circle walk, instead of out-and-back along the same path? That seems to work most of the time for my guy. Sending you good thoughts that this will resolve.


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

Well, that is interesting the full circle...we DIDN'T have a problem going around.....but she bit me yesterday on the going OUT before we ever turned around.

I'll be so glad to say this is all over.

And the last couple days WERE a change in her schedule...I had a dentist appt. in the a.m. and other things, so we didn't get our 9:30 a.m. walk.


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## quilter (Sep 12, 2011)

This sounds like our puppy (but he's older and better now). We could set a watch for when the jumping and snapping would start! It was clearly that he was tired. A few things came to mind.

Start working on a calming exercise at home, so that you can use it while you're out. We got Casper trained so that when I sit on the ground, he climbs into my lap, and settles down. I pet him from head to tail, with the fur and avoiding his mouth. It's so automatic at this point that I can use it almost anywhere. Note that I've been working on this since he was 10 weeks old. It's not an overnight thing.

Shorter walks and more of them. Our dog gets three walks a day of about 20, 45, and 45 minutes. And we consider him a mellow golden. We also do retrieving in the backyard.

Another thing you can train is "go sniff", "go play", or "roll over". These are stress-reducing activities where the puppy can do whatever he wants. We give the dog lots of breaks on his walks. And some he decides on his own!

Instead of retrieving (since you said she wouldn't), just throw a treat out and then use a treat to get her back.

See if you can figure out her triggers. Casper has a thing about thick bark mulch that sets him off. I have no idea why, but if he finds a big expanse of it and gets into it, it gives him the zoomies. He also gets the zoomies after he's been in the water. (Yes, it leads to a huge mess if he decides I'm some sort of zoomie agility obstacle.) It used to be that dogs or people walking by would set him off. He'd be fine watching them go by, but then when the opportunity to visit was over, he'd lose it. So I would wait a lot longer before we start moving again. He just needed a bit more time to "get over it." Now we are working on keeping moving calmly as people and dogs pass by. Before, I had him sit to keep him under control. There is a list out there somewhere about stress behaviors in dogs. You could watch for those to tell some warning on when the puppy is going to lose it.

I'm reading "Control Unleashed, The Puppy Program" right now. It has a lot of good information about stress and relaxation when working with puppies. 

All that said, Casper is 9 months, we walk for 45 minutes for his long walks. He usually takes several breaks to sniff and at least one long break to roll around. There are some spots where he always loses it, I suppose out of habit. I try to go by those when he's fresh, not tired. I clicker train and use lots of treats.


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

Okay, here's where we are for the day.

She didn't go to her scheduled Doggy daycare.
She had diarrhea last night from eating a rawhide chew, so I didn't send her.

So.we went to the dog park...no one there but us this a.m. for 45 minutes.
I walked to one end, let her explore and sniff, and do puppy stuff. 
Then she would come running to me, I would reward her whenever she returns to me.
She was quite distracted with all the dog smells, so didn't respond when I called her.

I was walking to the other end, she's leash free now, and she runs to my back, and begins jumping, biting me.
It took quite a while for me to wrestle her into a sit.
Trying my darnest not to get bit again.

So, another small terrier male shows up, and she wanted to play with him, but he was 3 and wanted no part of her jumping all over him.

So, after an hour, we came home.
She really didn't run all that much...but hey, she's off leash, so it's a good thing.

So we rested through the day, went out once to fetch in the afternoon, same situation, jumping, biting. We come in, this time I place her in her crate. For 10 minutes.

She comes out and proceeds to nap.

We just went out again, I thought well, I don't feel secure to go to the park and walk, we'll leash walk right here in the backyard.
Leisure walk, loose leash, little correction...let her sniff and explore, and low and behold she did it again!

BUT, no teeth wounds today......

She is now in her crate.
I am frustrated.
Ticked.
Confused.
Helpless.


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

I feel really bad for you and I wish there was a magic bullet. Have you considered in-home training? Are there any options for that where you're at? We have a few kennels here that offer house calls. Another option might be in-kennel training. I know this isn't for everyone, but I'm just thinking out loud.... there are kennels here where you drop the dog for a week, 10 days, a month (whatever your preference) and it's like doggy boot camp. Like I said, just thinking out loud.

Have you mentioned any of your struggles to your breeder? I email mine with questions often! If she doesn't have an answer she knows a local expert who does. I also have my vet on speed dial, lol. I am always asking questions and getting recommendations.

Anyway, I don't have any great suggestions, just some ideas of what I do when I'm frustrated: get help!


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## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

Oh no, poor you  Keep remembering..it WILL pass! For me this reads huge outing, hardly anything to do for a very long time and then something small of what she wasnt sure what it was with a loose leash that gave her permission to take her confusion and frustration out on you 
I would be giving her a short leash shorter walk morning, lunchtime and teatime with some mental exercise in between naps. I wouldnt set her up to fail, I would only put her in situations that would minimise the possibility of her doing that to me until she had learned to behave and I woukd reward her at the end of each nice short walk. As the FIRST sign of her leaping at me I would be correcting her. Have you tried the compressed air can? You keep it hidden and press it at the moment she starts to leap and the noise will stop her in her tracks. It could be the very tool you now need to stop this if you dont have the strength and size to keep seating her as it works well on most dogs for extreme cases as they dont like the 'snake'!!! :uhoh:
I hope her tummy is better now too, those raw hides never suited Chester either. A friend would give him one and he was always ill after 
Good luck...tomorrows another day!


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

I did call the breeder when all this first started. She suggested the trainer that had the bright idea of lifting the dog off her feet by her collar, or putting her down on the ground. 
Being somewhat uninformed, I tried both methods...without success.

The trainer came for 3 sessions.
Then the problem seemed a little better, I let him go.

Now, the last few days, it seems like it's started all over again.

We are leaving for the cottage on June 7th, and I am hoping things are better by then. At the cottage she'll be off leash, as we live on an island.

I think I'll try the air can tomorrow.
I have one here.

And as for not putting her in the situation to fail, that's why we stayed in the yard tonight, and she still jumped, and bit.


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## mayapaya (Sep 28, 2011)

toliva said:


> I feel really bad for you and I wish there was a magic bullet. Have you considered in-home training? Are there any options for that where you're at? We have a few kennels here that offer house calls.
> Anyway, I don't have any great suggestions, just some ideas of what I do when I'm frustrated: get help!


Sorry if I did not read through this thread thoroughly but this is a good idea. I know home training is expensive, but you get the help in your own surroundings, so in my opinion, it's somewhat easier to apply your learnings. I did consult a personal trainer for Maya (although I opted for private session at their location) I wish you luck and patience!


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

I had a personal trainer.But I would try one more.

Today I am going to talk to the head of the doggy daycare.
She is a trainer also. And I like her. 


Bridget is all better today, and she is going for the day...
(give me a rest!)


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## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

mooselips said:


> I think I'll try the air can tomorrow.
> I have one here.
> 
> And as for not putting her in the situation to fail, that's why we stayed in the yard tonight, and she still jumped, and bit.


Thats great, if used properley, I dont think you will need a trainer, the air can will stop her, but be consistent with it and DONT let her see it, at ANY time, even after the walk..these pups are clever and I know that Chester was looking for the source for some time afterwards, including around me :uhoh:  but warily...he didnt want that nasty snake popping out to say hi again!! :wave:

Re setting up to fail..she had been at home a long time, would have rightly assumed she was going out for a walk with you, was taken into the back yard for her 'walk' which although had smells etc would have been dissapointing in her mind and therefore frustrating and she wasnt on a short lead. Chester had to earn the right to have a longer leash once he could be trusted to behave with my girls and everytime he did behave he was praised and treated once he returned HOME but not before. Thats what I meaNt about setting her up to fail..by providing her with her suspected triggers...no routine, no proper walk, long loose leash giving her space to jump and bite. 
I go back to my earlier post, several short walks a day on short leash so she doesnt get tired and grouchy, has regular but safe outings for joints, mental exercise that can include physical training at home inbetween and not such long naps in between. Its all a bit all or nothing and I think she would be better with small but regular to lessen her energy and frustration  I also still think and hope the air can will give her a short sharp surprise and stop you being her target 
Keeping everything crossed for you...grab that can..get that short leash...take a deep breath and today is the start of a new puppy


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

Just returned from dropping off Bridge at Central Bark.

Spoke with Peggy, she fitted her with a prong collar.
And showed me how to use it. She had people come up to Bridget
and she immediately snapped the leash, when she jumped up on them,
and she immediately put herself in a sit.  Then lots of praise.

I'm desperate.
Didn't want to go with the prong collar, but as Peggy said, 
you have to remember, she bites someone else, you could lose your dog.

So, we'll give this a good try. :crossfing
Tomorrow for our morning short walk.

Actually, I've been awake since 4:30, stewing all this over. :uhoh:


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

Prong collar is definitely worth a try. We have been very happy with ours.

I was thinking of something you mentioned earlier. When she started JBG, you wrestle her into a sit. Do you find yourself handling her a lot in this process? If so, the handling could be causing a couple of problems: 1) getting her more excited/stimulated and 2) giving her attention (she doesn't care what kind of attention she gets, to her it's all good). Back in our puppy class, the trainers got on me for over-touching my dog when he broke a command or didn't follow it, and taught me to do collar corrections ONLY. After I learned that, it really helped, esp. w/ the prong. 

Give your command or stop word a split second before you collar correct. Give your correction in the opposite direction of the mistake. If she is jumping up, you correct downwards, for example. At least, that is what I do. 

With the prong, you want to make sure that you are not tugging or pulling. All corrections should be a snap snap snap of the leash. If the tugging starts, the dog is not learning. Our trainer explained it to me as "avoiding the triangle". If there is a triangle forming with the collar and the swivel ring, you have lost the ability to correct. I have to remember to release tension, then command, then correct. 

Lastly with the prong, you might want to have an extra link on hand if you don't already. Our pups are growing crazy fast right now - one day I went to put the collar on Zeke and it was too small! It happened overnight! I couldn't use it till I got another link.

This might all be stuff your trainer mentioned to you when she showed you how to use the collar - I just thought it was worth mentioning


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

Thank you so much.

I'm just worried I won't use it correctly.

Bridget actually walks pretty well with a loose leash.....but she always wants to be in the lead, and then the leash gets taut, and I stop, she comes around and sits, I reward her, and off she goes, but I'm beginning to think she just pulls to get the treat.......

I just want her to stop biting me, and all the other suggestions aren't helping.

And to tell you the truth, when she starts the jumping and biting, I don't know WHAT I do, I am just trying my hardest to get her away from my body, so she can't sink her teeth into me.

And I generally grab the collar first.


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## baumgartml16 (Jun 19, 2011)

So sorry to hear all this that you are going through, believe me I understand how frustrating it is. 

Glad you switched to the prong collar. I think you will notice she will correct herself when she feels it. Maybe start making the treats more sporadic and not every time. We used to do the same thing and now she think she gets one every time she looks at us but we started doing it randomly and now she will keep close longer in hopes that treat will pop out.

I think the air compressor is a good idea, we have always used a water bottle. I bring it along when we go for long walks or high stimulating areas as that is where the jumping used to happen. Koda is a year now and it rarely ever happens anymore but there is always the chance and I need someting I can count on as she is 70 lbs now. LOL. 

This will pass, I promise, I remember thinking the same things you are...but hang in there.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

mooselips said:


> Just returned from dropping off Bridge at Central Bark.
> 
> Spoke with Peggy, she fitted her with a prong collar.
> And showed me how to use it. She had people come up to Bridget
> ...


Sounds like a good idea to me. Good luck and let us know how it works.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

mooselips said:


> She had people come up to Bridget
> and she immediately snapped the leash, when she jumped up on them,
> and she immediately put herself in a sit.  Then lots of praise.


Generally, if the prong is fitted properly, high on the neck right behind the ears and snug, you should never have to "snap the leash". The prong is meant to be self correcting. I've never seen it used that way...


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

kwhit - I don't understand what you mean by "self-correcting" - could you elaborate?


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

I'll try. When the prong is fitted properly as soon as the dog does any pulling it "corrects". It puts the pressure on the dog's neck instantly without the handler having to do it because it is already snug on the neck. The dog learns that whenever it pulls, it's going to feel very uncomfortable so they stop. Does that make sense? Because the collar is already snug, you don't have to apply any extra pressure than the dog would receive on its own by pulling against the collar. If not fitted properly, it can cause a lot of damage to the dog's neck as will "snapping" the lead while the dog is wearing the prong.


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

No, this trainer said it is snapped.
From what I have read online this a.m. it is to be snapped.
There's no prongs in the front...only the side and top.

If that is the same one she had this a.m.

But, yep, she snapped it.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

mooselips said:


> No, this trainer said it is snapped.
> From what I have read online this a.m. it is to be snapped.
> There's no prongs in the front...only the side and top.
> 
> ...


I must say I have never seen a collar like that. And I have used a prong.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Where did she fit the prong on your dog's neck? Where does it sit if there is no tension on the lead?


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

You'll have to wait until I bring it home.
I probably have it all wrong, I just briefly glanced at it.


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

BUT, she did say it is not suppose to fit right behind the ears.
It should be lower, where a mother dog would grab the pup.


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

I don't think it was like this though, I think the prongs were all the way around...but wait and let me see this evening.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

mooselips said:


> I don't think it was like this though, I think the prongs were all the way around...but wait and let me see this evening.


I googled and I believe those are what they call "quick release" prong. I have never used those. Mine was prongs all the way around and it was put on by undoing the prong and not slipped over the head. This must be something different. I haven't used a prong in about 10 years lol. I'm sure your trainer knows what she is doing. Good luck! She does need to stop this behavior before she gets any bigger.


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## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

mooselips said:


> BUT, she did say it is not suppose to fit right behind the ears.
> It should be lower, where a mother dog would grab the pup.


This all makes me terribly nervous, already theres possible differing opinions/thoughts of how to use and position.  Here in the UK prong collars are generally a no no :no: and theres currently a photo being circulated by a vet of horrific injuries inflicted on a dog by one used consistently wrongly. 
Please do not use it if you are in any doubt of your ability to operate it correcly or of the advice you have been given by this person at your pups daycare.
We all have our own preferences and opinions and do what we feel is best for our pups and us but I have to admit I am hanging onto the hope that you are trying the compressed air sound first before trying a method that is designed to cause discomfort or pain.
I will now bow out :wave: and wish you success with lovely Bridget :crossfing as I cant add anything about prong collars that will be helpful to you and hope my support has been helpful to now


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

mooselips said:


> BUT, she did say it is not suppose to fit right behind the ears.
> It should be lower, where a mother dog would grab the pup.


She's wrong and a lot of people make that mistake. I'd look into it more if I were you...that's not the correct way to position the collar.


Leerburg Dog Training | How to Fit a Prong Collar

Dog Prong Collars Training | 8PawsUp

Schutzhund-Training.com - Prong Collar

Properly fitting a prong collar, how to size correctly? - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Answers

Prong Collar fit - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums

These are what I found in about a minute. I sold and fitted prongs for many, many years and have had a ton of trainers work out of my shop. All fit the prong collar as I said it was supposed to be fitted. Do what you think is best, but I would just hate to see your dog hurt from a collar that was not fitted the way it was intended to be used.


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

What about this?
It says middle?

http://www.teacherspetk9school.com/PinchCollar.pdf


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

Thank you Kwit, I'm reading all of them now.

This makes me very nervous.


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

kwhit said:


> I'll try. When the prong is fitted properly as soon as the dog does any pulling it "corrects". It puts the pressure on the dog's neck instantly without the handler having to do it because it is already snug on the neck. The dog learns that whenever it pulls, it's going to feel very uncomfortable so they stop. Does that make sense? Because the collar is already snug, you don't have to apply any extra pressure than the dog would receive on its own by pulling against the collar. If not fitted properly, it can cause a lot of damage to the dog's neck as will "snapping" the lead while the dog is wearing the prong.


Thanks for that explanation!


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

How is the prong collar supposed to stop her from biting and jumping?


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

mylissyk said:


> How is the prong collar supposed to stop her from biting and jumping?


Yeah...I was thinking the same thing. IDK, maybe for re-direction. 

Also, she just may associate the pain that the prong inflicted on her with the people that the trainer had approach her to correct her. Now that would open a whole new can of worms. :doh: I think the OP might be better off looking into other training options with this pup. Things don't seem to be going in the right direction. Plus, she's just so young to be resorting to the prong. And then the trainer popping the lead on top of it...good way to damage her neck at her age.


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

The only time I am suppose to pull is when she jumps on people, or me.

I have had SO many people tell me so many different things to do, like I said before, I am at a loss.

For example:
If I take her to the dog park, where it's generally just me and her early in the morning, she runs free to get some exercise in...I can't see her wearing the prong collar, and she has stopped, turned and jumped and bit me while we were there once before.

And she has 2 puppy classes left, she can't wear it there either.

And when I take her out in the backyard on the long 30 foot lead, she has gotten excited on that lead, and bit me also.

It seemed like when I first got her into the harness, the jumping stopped for about 4 days, (I was finally healing) until she once again realized she could jump, and get me.

On the other hand, I took her out last night to wee, and this morning, and I never had to correct her, it was self correcting, she never pulled.

I don't like the idea of the prong collar, but I'm beginning to feel hopeless here. 


And....I'm getting hurt.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

mooselips said:


> The only time I am suppose to pull is when she jumps on people, or me.
> 
> I have had SO many people tell me so many different things to do, like I said before, I am at a loss.
> 
> ...


Have you tried giving her something to carry, or take with you to put in her mouth if she starts biting?

I think in your situation I would interview and consult other trainers and have a new trainer come out to observe what she is doing. I just am not comfortable with the suggestions the two you have talked to gave you.

Where are you located? Maybe board members know trainers they can recommend. If you were in DFW I would send you straight to my trainer, she is the behavior evaluator for my rescue. But she is also nationally connected, so let me know where you are located and I'll ask her if she knows anyone there to recommend.

I keep coming back to everything she is doing sounds like is frightened for some reason. Or maybe consult a certified veterinarian behavorist, there are some listed in OH.

*http://www.dacvb.org/resources/find/*

*Meghan Herron*
DVM, DACVB
The Ohio State University Veterinary Medical Center
601 Vernon L. Tharp St.
Columbus, OH 43210
office tel: 614.247.7382
office fax: 614.292.1454
http://vet.osu.edu/behavior


http://www.animalbehavior.org/ABSAppliedBehavior/caab-directory

*Jessica Lockhart, MS, PhD, CAAB *
(certification expires: 6/30/16)
Behavioral Scientist
P&G Pet Care
6571 State Route 503 North
Lewisburg, OH 45338
(937) 962-7556
E-mail - [email protected]


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

This morning we went for a run, in the woods, and I used the prong collar walking to the path, took it off and released her, so she could run free.

She took her first swim! Quite unintentional, but a swim...
Jumped through the creek, had a wonderful time.

She would get about 50 feet in front of me, then come back and nudge my hand for a treat. I gave her praise, good girl, but no treat.

The third time she came back for the treat, and I praised her, she jumped and grabbed my arm, I immediately said no biting, sit. She did, I praised her, and off she went.

I did not give her one treat while we were walking.
I did tell her we'd get a bisquit when we got home, and we walked in the door and she walked to the biscuit cupboard.
I have wondered if alot of my problem is my carrying the treats, she smells them, knows they are there?

Everytime I get a new training way to do things, I do give it a try......
so I will try this collar, and see how it works for us.
It IS located high on her neck, and I know *NOT* to pop it.
I do not want to injure my pup.

If she should jump on someone, it should be self correcting, along with jumping on me.

We will be leaving for the island in three and a half weeks, and I really think it'll be alot better up there, she'll be unleashed all the time, and swimming.

Maybe this treating continuously is the problem.
I don't treat to her as often as she would like which is every 20 seconds.

When we were done after 45 minutes, I called her, she came and sat, (good girl, good girl) and I placed the prong collar on her to walk to the car.

Never pulled....

Then brought her home and gave her a well deserved bath....lol


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

Bridget and I went for our evening walk, in the prong collar, and back up collar.
A short one 10 minutes out, 10 minutes back, and let me tell you it was wonderful.

No pulling.....stayed at my side, except for when I let her wander in the grass, and smell a few trees......

She did nudge my hand twice, I showed her I had NO treats with me, in fact, I emptied out my pockets, cause I'm sure she can smell them.
She jumped ONCE, to bite, and immediately came down into sit.

No jerk, no pulling by me.

All I said was OFF.

I rewarded her with a bisquit when we arrived home.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I am thrilled to hear she is doing better! Following your threads has made me feel so bad for you. I want you to enjoy her, hopefully she will start new and better habits and stick with them.


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

Thanks mylissyk,
Oh I am enjoying her...she has none of that behavior in the house at all....she's our little dollbaby!


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

Took a 45 minute walk this a.m. no pulling, no jumping, and I had to do nothing.

I am concerned though that the pinch collar fits a little lower on her neck.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

mooselips said:


> Took a 45 minute walk this a.m. no pulling, no jumping, and I had to do nothing.
> 
> I am concerned though that the pinch collar fits a little lower on her neck.


Awesome! I'm glad you are having a better time on your walks! 

I don't think you can stop the collar from slipping, gravity and no matter how tight it will slide down a little. As long as it is fitted fairly snug, don't worry too much if it slips down a little, as long as it stays somewhat up on the neck and not down to her shoulders. If it goes that low it is too loose.

You do know you have to open a link to take it off right? NEVER slide it off or on over her head. What size links are you using?


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

I'm not sure it has a size on it, the trainer at the daycare fitted her for it.

And yes, I know not to put it over her head, but gosh it's hard to unspring that prong dohickie!

But hopefully I won't have to use this for very long? 
So I hate to order one that has the easy clasp I saw.

Now this a.m. she nudged me for treats and I showed her my empty hands, and let her know I didn't have any.

She nudged me once more, then stopped doing it.
I rewarded her with hugs and a bunch of great, good girls.

I am just wondering if I was reinforcing bad behavior with the treats.

So. No treats.
When she came home, I gave her a bisquit, and a filled kong.
She's a happy napping girl right now.......


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## mooselips (Dec 4, 2011)

Oh, I suppose the LINK size is medium.
This gal weighs about 50# now.


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