# Age at receiving titles Ch/Obedience/Agility/Hunt/Etc.



## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

What is everyone's thoughts about receiving titles at certain ages? Does it impress you more or less if the dog is younger? Older? Does it depend on venue? Scores? Style? Discuss.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I personally prefer good attitude, style and high scores. And I train until I'm happy I have those three things. I'm also more impressed when I see a team take its time to train to a high standard for the ring. But I have no problem with people who simply want the title and are happy with three scores of 170 in obedience... or anything in between. What I don't like, is when people A. force their dogs to do something the dog clearly is not enjoying and B. use harsh training tactics to feed their own human need for high scores, etc. The dog didn't ask to play the game, so we owe it to them to make it fun.

The age Quiz was for different titles so far really isn't representative of much. I had several years where I was super busy building and running a business and dealing with family emergencies, so we barely got any training in. Life got in the way.

In General:

He was 2-ish when we started competing (and titling) in agility.
AKC and UKC CD at 4 
JH at 3
AKC CDX at 6 

UD? Hopefully at 7 and with nice scores!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Well... gut feeling is it's all the more impressive if you can get high scoring titles and wins on your young dog (younger than 2). I'd be lying otherwise. 

If you are just rushing into the novice ring and getting it over with even though it means your dog is barely qualifying in all the classes and never gets anywhere near the placements. I wouldn't say that's a waste of time, but.. I'd want the highest scores possible and I'd want blue ribbons in addition to the greens, thank you. I wouldn't want to settle for less than my dog is capable of simply because I want to get letters after his name all the faster. 

Further that, I think there is something to be said about an older dog being able to work just as well as or even better than a younger dog in all of the venues and sports. 

I know somebody (a breeder for that matter) through dog classes who rescued/adopted an older golden (I'm not sure how old he was when she adopted him, but he was on death row) and did everything with him and now is tackling obedience. This dog is 10 years old and starting open. I haven't seen her since she left the novice classes, but I wouldn't be surprised that they make quick work of open. That is proof you have something special.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I prefer starting traditional obedience showing between 2 and 3; with style, good attitude and good scores.

Agility, I start around 3 as well - I am super cautious about growth plates and not demanding much in the way of tight turns until I know the dog is mature. I also need to have the dog willing to play with me anywhere, anytime and no matter the stress level - this requires a lot of exposure to different places.

Rally I will show earlier since I can work on attitude, talk to them and I use Rally to give my dogs exposure to the show environment and that person with a clip board.

Hunt Tests - I'm still working on that timimg - Faelan is 3 now and I am training so he will earn his JH this year.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Megora said:


> Well... gut feeling is it's all the more impressive if you can get high scoring titles and wins on your young dog (younger than 2). I'd be lying otherwise.


This was my impression for a very long time as well, but--not as much anymore. 
Why is it more impressive for a younger dog? Is it not the same title and same requirements? Some dogs may be more mature and calm at a younger age, but does that really mean they are more impressive because of it?


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I believe a dog should be ready. Now I don't know the obedience world, and the big thing is what are the goals of the dog and handler. 

In agility a dog can not compete (AKC) until it is 18 months old. Some dogs are not ready then to start and it is evident when they run. You don't want the pressure to teach the dog bad habits. True in any venue I would think. 

That being said, our own Sammydog "Mira" has just turned 3 she is closing in on her MACH. That is pretty incredible. Jessica is an amazing handler, and trains her dogs well. There are a lot of clean runs to get where she is now. A well prepared dog when they start certainly can accomplish goals quickly. 

I plan to dabble in obedience, I doubt I will want to go for an OTCH. Just not my "passion" but you never know. I hope to have Gabby and Teddi in the ring this year. I want them ready, but not sure I need to be the winner. I just have to see how and what happen. One thing I know, when I go into the ring I want my dog to Q. If she has her tools she should do it. Things happen all the time, but I go in to Q. My new obedience trainer who is on training hiatus (sigh...) now trains a lot of the higher expected moves, so when you are in the novice ring, you are confident. I like that approach.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

GoldenSail said:


> This was my impression for a very long time as well, but--not as much anymore.
> Why is it more impressive for a younger dog? Is it not the same title and same requirements? Some dogs may be more mature and calm at a younger age, but does that really mean they are more impressive because of it?


I think it's because the majority of goldens out there are just overgrown puppies until they are about 20 months or so. Experienced owners/trainers are able to cut that "maturing" time in half and draw that joy of training out of their dogs, and that does set them apart. <- So basically when you see a younger dog excelling and gaining high scores and placements, part of it is a naturally calm dog but the rest is due to the training and handling the dog has received. A naturally calm dog becomes a slow, lazy, and distracted dog if not properly handled.

^ Going by the above, I guess what I'm saying is that the most impressive part about seeing a young dog excel is taking note of the bond between the owner and the dog. It has to be a strong bond in order to keep a dog in hand despite its overwhelming desire to play and be loopy. 

So wanting that impression for myself and my guy is probably an ego thing, and partly why I was so disappointed that we didn't get our novice title last year. Truth be told, I rushed it and we had a setback with the stays. I'm anxious to get back into the ring, but probably will not do more than rally until the sit and down stays are solid as a rock.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Maxs Mom said:


> That being said, our own Sammydog "Mira" has just turned 3 she is closing in on her MACH. That is pretty incredible. Jessica is an amazing handler, and trains her dogs well. There are a lot of clean runs to get where she is now. A well prepared dog when they start certainly can accomplish goals quickly.


Ah, but is it the speed and accuracy with which she is closing in on the MACH that most impresses you? If an older dog had the same track record but a later start, is that more, less, or just as impressive? Or are we impressed by the handler more than the dog? So many questions...


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

The only thing that has ever impressed me age-wise is when someone is able to OTCH a dog by two. I look at Helen Smith and Pounce. I haven't met Pounce, but I've met most of his littermates, (and I know one of his distant cousins quite well), and to be able to control and focus all that energy with such precision at such a young age does impress me. Not so much with the dog as with the handler. You have to be a very good trainer to be able to do that. But what is more impressive is that the dog is just as competitive four years later, placing in the NOI two years in a row.

Nothing else age-wise really impresses me that much. I know a lot of dogs that come out young and with a bang in novice. And I've seen a lot of those dogs not hold up nearly as well for the long haul. Who cares if you can come out and put a CD on a 9 month old puppy if it falls apart in open or utility?

I think the most impressive thing is a dog who can consistently qualify with high scores over a long period of time (years), no matter what age the dog was when they started. Maintaining is the most challenging part of upper level obedience.

I'm planning on starting Flip in rally and beginner novice this summer. He'll be two. I am not expecting stellar scores. He does not have the precision yet for that. What I do expect is effort, focus, and good attitude. If any of those are missing then I will not show him. Precision can come with time, the others are hard to build once you've lost them.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

just my own personal reaction, I think that low level titles (CD, JH, whatever the first agility title is) at a young age don't mean a hoot. But I think that a dog who can zip through the entire title sequence at a young age, and often in short order, is more impressive. 
A dog that gets a CD at 11 months old and is still working on a UDX at 7 years old doesn't impress me at all. 
A dog that gets his JH, SH, and MH before he's 2....well now that impresses me!
I don't think that's at all true in conformation, however. That's a physical maturity issue, and there's nothing impressive or valuable about maturing physically faster.
JMHAOWO.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> I think that low level titles (CD, JH, whatever the first agility title is) at a young age don't mean a hoot.


Barb, do you realize how many people who have only managed to get those low level titles are now weeping into their computers at the sounds of that? A novice title is a huge thing for some dogs (try getting a shy/fearful dog to tolerate the stand). ! 

I do see what you mean though.... it's partly why I'm trying out open exercises with Jacks so it's not so rough a transition after we finish his novice title. Er, whenever that is. 

I'm hoping that by the time we get to open that they will have done away with the out of sight stays. :nono:


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

<checking tongue for footprints> sorry, I didn't mean that the way it sounded. I didn't mean that the title is not an achievement, I meant that the age at which it comes is not really an achievement because it's not uncommon to get those titles at a young age. But then to go on through the entire title sequence while the dog is still young says a lot about the dog and the trainer, as a team. Not sure if I'm making this better or worse...
And yes, there are a lot of dogs that present a real challenge in training, and for them getting a CD is a massive achievement at ANY age. But I was thinking only of the middle of the bell curve. 
Several of the people I train with have put an OTCH on their dogs when the dogs were only 3 years old. To me, that's a huge achievement.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Well as others have said a lot is to be said for scores and consistency. So iif a person can achieve both on a young dog and at higher level competition I am blown away.
Twice recently I have been blown away by people and dogs I know.
One is Catcher and her handler Sandy Washburn when they recently attained his OTCh in the tough competition area of greater New York at the ripe age of about 2 1/2.
The other time was when Oriana's brother Flip and his handlers Andrea and Brad Ford became what is believed to be the youngest Golden to ever attain it's MACH at 2 year and 8 months I believe. To add to how special this achievement was both handlers ran him on the same days in the different classes alternating which they would run. Andrea was also the first handler to ever attain the AKC's VCCH - guess she has an idea of how to train a dog.

In the conformation front I am more impressed when a dog is still winning when they are over 5 years of age. Some oof the GREAT Goldens of all time did this (Sammy, Jake, James, Kirby, Yogi to name a few). Quite often a dog wins a Championship before the age of two and is never again heard from. Now I also realize for a bitch this can be much more difficult after whelping a few litters but there have been some that also managed to do this (Paris for one off the top of my head).


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

There was a guy in the hunt tests we ran this fall who put a JH on his flat coated retriever....the dog had just turned 10 at the last test. He got more support and applause than any of the people who were finishing the JH on dogs about 1 year old.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

AmbikaGR said:


> One is Catcher and her handler Sandy Washburn when they recently attained his OTCh in the tough competition area of greater New York at the ripe age of about 2 1/2.


That's a Gaylan's dog, right?



> The other time was when Oriana's brother Flip and his handlers Andrea and Brad Ford became what is believed to be the youngest Golden to ever attain it's MACH at 2 year and 8 months I believe.


Well he's gotta be a super dog, cause he sure has a super name!:


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Loisiana said:


> That's a Gaylan's dog, right?
> 
> 
> 
> Well he's gotta be a super dog, cause he sure has a super name!:



Yes and YES!! We get to call him Bro and Flipster also!


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

I enjoy watching the high scoring dogs but I am more impressed by someone who takes an older or challenging dog, perhaps a rescue and is consistently successful in the obedience ring. I know of a trainer that has only shown rescues and always scores in the high 90s. That is impressive to me, much more so than someone who purchases an amazingly bred dog for competition and succeeds.
I have a dog that I have been training for 9 years that has been a behavioral challenge from the very beginning. Most experienced trainers would have given up on this dog but I have struggled through and earned her CDX and am hoping to achieve her UD. Her scores have not been much to be proud of but the journey has been tremendous. In my book if someone could have taken this dog to a higher level with more success that would have impressed me. 
I also`am impressed by someone who is able to perform with multiple dogs in multiple sports on the same day at a trial and is equally successful with all of the dogs and in all of the venues (ie agility and obedience). There is a trainer in our area who achieves this on a regular basis and fosters a great attitude in all of her dogs.
I always take a moment to watch the handlers that make an awesome connected team.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Oh - I thought of something else that impresses me. People who show "off" breeds. It's one thing to watch a Golden, Aussie, BC, Sheltie, etc. excel in obedience. Show me a Bloodhound, Husky or.... a Whippet  who is getting it done in the ring -- maybe not with the same "flash" and high scores as your typical obedience breeds -- but an off breed with a good attitude. Now THAT'S impressive.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Oh - I thought of something else that impresses me. People who show "off" breeds. It's one thing to watch a Golden, Aussie, BC, Sheltie, etc. excel in obedience. Show me a Bloodhound, Husky or.... a Whippet  who is getting it done in the ring -- maybe not with the same "flash" and high scores as your typical obedience breeds -- but an off breed with a good attitude. Now THAT'S impressive.



I agree. Last week at the match I went to, I saw this Dachshund in utility that had all the attitude and pizazz AND worked phenomenally. What an amazing team.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

hotel4dogs said:


> <checking tongue for footprints> sorry, I didn't mean that the way it sounded. I didn't mean that the title is not an achievement, I meant that the age at which it comes is not really an achievement because it's not uncommon to get those titles at a young age. But then to go on through the entire title sequence while the dog is still young says a lot about the dog and the trainer, as a team. Not sure if I'm making this better or worse...


No, I knew what you meant. I was just teasing a little. 

I'm definitely impressed with the dogs and trainers who get through the upper levels. Partly because of the equipment needs and detailed training. There are little things I'm learning, like giving double commands ("take it" + hand signal for dumbell retrieves) and keeping my body straight on the jumps. And of course there is that balance between having a dog excited about the dumbbell retrieve and having a dog who sits and waits to be released into the retrieve.

For that matter, it's also teaching a young and retrieve-obsessed dog not to go chasing down all the dumbells in the building. Last class, I'm embarrassed to admit, I stood there like the house on the side of the road as Jacks retrieved his dumbbell to hand and then went running off to retrieve another dog's dumbell to my hand, giving the other dog whiplash as he whizzed past. <- And that was the second time my ill-mannered golden had stolen another dog's dumbbell that same class. 

I know how much work goes into training and conditioning these dogs for trials when the dogs are mature and mostly settled adults like my guy. I'm thinking it's just insanely impressive when you see how good some of these younger dogs are. I know a lot of it is the trainers and their experience.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

There's someone that shows here in the midwest that has put a UDX on 2 BASSETT HOUNDS!! Now that impresses the heck out of me. If you've never seen a basset do a retrieve over the high jump, you are missing an experience.
edit....maybe it's a UD? 



FlyingQuizini said:


> Oh - I thought of something else that impresses me. People who show "off" breeds. It's one thing to watch a Golden, Aussie, BC, Sheltie, etc. excel in obedience. Show me a Bloodhound, Husky or.... a Whippet  who is getting it done in the ring -- maybe not with the same "flash" and high scores as your typical obedience breeds -- but an off breed with a good attitude. Now THAT'S impressive.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

We have Paula out here who put the first OTCH on a bluetick hound, and then another OTCH on a second one. Also the first OTCH for Idaho.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> There was a guy in the hunt tests we ran this fall who put a JH on his flat coated retriever....the dog had just turned 10 at the last test. He got more support and applause than any of the people who were finishing the JH on dogs about 1 year old.


That's like when my old dog got his one and only title when he was 10. It was only a Rally Novice but you would have thought it was an OTCH with all the cheering (and my crying). Ruby was already showing in Open at this point and had her RAE, so it's not like I was exactly new to showing, but since this was the only thing he was ever going to be capable of doing, it was amazing.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

It all impresses me! I guess that is the fun part of the dog game. I am certainly impressed by dogs who earn high level titles at a young age. I am very impressed with everything Barb has done with Tito. I would still be impressed even if he did it at an older age, but the fact that he is not even four makes it exceptional! 

I am equally impressed with dogs who do it at an old age. Mira's daddy Bart earned his Master Hunter when he was almost 12 years old! I think it is pretty amazing to be doing that kind of work at that age.

I think titling ages all depend on the dog. I want to see a happy enthusiastic team more than anything. There are some dogs in agility who amaze me and I will stop what I am doing to come watch them run and its not because of titles or ages. It is because the teamwork is spectacular!

Quiz impresses me too! I was just watching his figure-8 video. I love that he is 7 and still looks like a puppy!

Ya, I am easily impressed! :


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

I guess I never considered age, although I have hoped to keep Casey fit enough to be able to jump 24" until he got his UD.
He got his CD at 2 and his CDX at 3. I hope he will get his UD sometime during his 4-5 year...but it is hard! The nice thing about utility is that the exercises are much more motivating to Casey, and all of a sudden he things obedience is just an awesome thing to do.
I had hoped to have titles on my young guy earlier than Casey's, but there is no rush, and I'd rather make sure that the foundations are all in place. I am also focusing much more on PLAY with him than I did with Casey (to our detriment!) These guys are my first two obedience dogs. 
Liz


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

All I know is I love to watch a great team at whatever age and I have a new appreciation for teams that can keep going with that happy attitude!


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

IowaGold said:


> That's like when my old dog got his one and only title when he was 10. It was only a Rally Novice but you would have thought it was an OTCH with all the cheering (and my crying). Ruby was already showing in Open at this point and had her RAE, so it's not like I was exactly new to showing, but since this was the only thing he was ever going to be capable of doing, it was amazing.


That is impressive!


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Maxs Mom said:


> That being said, our own Sammydog "Mira" has just turned 3 she is closing in on her MACH. That is pretty incredible. Jessica is an amazing handler, and trains her dogs well. There are a lot of clean runs to get where she is now. A well prepared dog when they start certainly can accomplish goals quickly.


Thanks Ann! I am very proud of her!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I am proud of BOTH of you!



sammydog said:


> Thanks Ann! I am very proud of her!


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

I have a friend who has been trying to get her last CDX leg on a 10 year old boxer for the last couple of years. I think there would be champagne uncorked at the trial when she finally gets it!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

My first golden had her CD from Novice A with 1st thru 3rd placements in 3 straight shows at 2 years She got her CDX with one placement in 4 shows at 3 years(I had just had a baby... so it was difficult). Golden #2, got her CD in 3 straight shows at 3years. Her CDX in 3 straight shows at 4 years (2 first place finishes and one second place finish). And then OMG, I can't tell you how many tries for the UD, which I believe was done by 6 years. For the UD, she was either 1st or 2nd as few dogs qualify in Utility A. She also got an RA after the UD... and died from hemangio 2 weeks after getting her first 2 RE legs. My sweet Georgie got his CD and RN at 3 plus. And I just got back from a match with his 8 1/2 year old sister, Samantha who is working on her CD!! Samantha is a Can CH/AKC pointed who also took time out to have some pups. She has never forgotten how to heel from her puppy days, although she sometimes wants to "gait" when she is doing her heeling pattern. And Georgie and Mantha's mom got her CD at 3, CDX close to 5 and her RE sometime after that(she is now 11+). For me it gets down to making the time (which is very important) and I got a bit burnt out chasing that UD.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

As far as "non obedience" breeds, I'm still pretty impressed with a pug I saw last fall at a lot of fun matches. Smart as a tack and just about perfect in the ring. If you've ever seen a pug prancing, that's an adorable image that sticks with you. 

That was the first time I saw a pug doing obedience, and I just thought that was awesome.  

There is also a trainer (she also teaches at one of the places I train at) whose brittany spaniels are tops in obedience. I'd only seen field brittanys before meeting her and watching her dogs train, so yep, pretty impressed.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm weaving slightly OT here, but I am incredibly impressed by the people who have a very difficult dog and just keep at it, with infinite patience, year after year, and FINALLY get a title. I find that amazing and impressive and I admire their perserverance so much. I'm lucky, I have an easy dog.


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> I'm weaving slightly OT here, but I am incredibly impressed by the people who have a very difficult dog and just keep at it, with infinite patience, year after year, and FINALLY get a title. I find that amazing and impressive and I admire their perserverance so much. I'm lucky, I have an easy dog.



I SO agree with you! I am not sure that I could do that. I am used to qualifying, once I am determined to enter, and find the odd NQ a bit depressing! I couldn't imagine going several trials without a Q, but many people do and keep on trying...for years sometimes. Now that I am beginning to show in utility, I may find out how they feel...but I am determined to get that UD, no matter how long it takes us!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

hotel4dogs said:


> I'm weaving slightly OT here, but I am incredibly impressed by the people who have a very difficult dog and just keep at it, with infinite patience, year after year, and FINALLY get a title. I find that amazing and impressive and I admire their perserverance so much. I'm lucky, I have an easy dog.


Yes, I like that too... EXCEPT when the dog is clearly not enjoying it. I actually find it grossly unfair to the dog when the human insists on continuing to trudge along b/c SHE wants a title -- about which the dog couldn't care less.

So long as the dog is willing to play the game. When you look at body language and see constant lagging, ears back, tail tucked, tight facial expression, clearly worried, etc. To me, if your dog is that concerned, you need to address his emotional issue away from the added stress of the competition environment.

I don't need to see a constantly wagging tail in the ring, but I greatly appreciate the absence of constant stressed out body language.

JMO.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Oh I agree totally, but most of the ones I've seen it's because the dog is enjoying it a bit TOO much!




FlyingQuizini said:


> Yes, I like that too... EXCEPT when the dog is clearly not enjoying it. I actually find it grossly unfair to the dog when the human insists on continuing to trudge along b/c SHE wants a title -- about which the dog couldn't care less.
> 
> So long as the dog is willing to play the game. When you look at body language and see constant lagging, ears back, tail tucked, tight facial expression, clearly worried, etc. To me, if your dog is that concerned, you need to address his emotional issue away from the added stress of the competition environment.
> 
> ...


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