# Sticky  Quality of Life scale



## Prism Goldens

https://vet.osu.edu/vmc/sites/defau...cisions brocure-web layout (2019) digital.pdf


Having to counsel someone today- this is very interesting and mostly I agree with the point scales, though with a Golden- the 5 points for good coat are a gimme... 
feeling sad.


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## Sweet Girl

That's a very good article. Raises some very good questions to ask yourself. It made me sad to read. I was asking myself those questions just about exactly four years ago. I hope I don't need to think about them for at least another 10 - or more.


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## Pilgrim123

Thank you for posting this. It's such a hard decision and doesn't get any easier.


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## aesthetic

Thank you for posting this. I hope I won't need it for at least another 10 years, but I'm so worried I won't do right by him when the time comes. It's a nice list to keep on file.


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## danoon58

This is a good resource yet very hard to read and think about. Is it possible this can be made a sticky so those who need it can find it easily?


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## Prism Goldens

danoon58 said:


> This is a good resource yet very hard to read and think about. Is it possible this can be made a sticky so those who need it can find it easily?


I don't know how to make a sticky- but other than the coat, I did find it quite useful. We humans, want our precious dogs to stay forever and this made it very clear to my friend today, for which I am grateful. Just watching her, and leaving out the coat, I got her a 42. My friend put her at a 48. She counted the coat. She was PTS at noon - a very teary day around here.


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## CAROLINA MOM

Updating thread with new link as the original one no longer works. 

https://vet.osu.edu/vmc/sites/defau...n/HTB/Difficult decisions 2017 web proof1.pdf


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## cwag

I can't get that link to work either. Maybe this will
https://vet.osu.edu/vmc/companion/our-services/honoring-bond-support-animal-owners


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## Brodys Rockies

This is such a good resource to help those who are facing the hard reality we all eventually face. 

Over the past 42 years of having pets and eventually having to face this very hard reality and decision, I have found that we often have trouble separating our thoughts and feelings from what we want and focusing solely on what is best for our pet. For me, and my family, we have found that if we just focus on what is best for our pet, and leave our feelings out of the decision, it makes facing this hard decision just a little bit easier, though it's never easy... 

Sadly, we learned this lesson the hard way. We had a Beagle, Barney that developed cancer at age 15. Our vet encouraged us to have the cancerous tumor removed. Barney recovered quickly from the procedure. Then the tumor came back. Our vet encouraged us to again have the tumor removed, so we did, and once again, Barney recovered quickly. Remember now, this was a 15-year-old Beagle that we loved so dearly. We so wanted Barney to get better and live longer. Within a few months, the tumor returned again, only this time we made the decision to think solely about Barney. He was now 16 years old. He had given us so many wonderful years and so many great memories. Barney had lived a loving wonderful life for 16 years. 

When we quit thinking about ourselves and what we wanted, we began thinking about what was best for Barney. Would he really want to go through a third surgery only to more than likely have the tumor return? It became clear to us then that putting Barney through another surgery wasn't the best decision for Barney, so as sad as we were, we focused on Barney and made the decision to end his suffering.

I'll never forget how this lil ole Beagle went to sleep on my lap. I felt all the quivering and the tenseness in his body give way to a blissful sleep from the sedative the vet provided. The vet gave me time to be with Barney until I was ready to say goodbye to our dear family friend. Once the medication was administered to stop his heart, Barney's suffering was over. I realized then that this was the most caring and loving thing I could have ever done for my dog... Yeah, I cried my eyes out, but in time the tears and pain eased and life continued.

I swore then that I would never again think about us when faced with having to make this difficult decision. Sadly we have had to go through this same process more times than I would have wanted. I've learned from past history that this is the hard part of having pets. They never do live as long as we would like, but oh how wonderful they are to have in our lives for the time we're given with them.

I hope this may help someone facing this hard decision going forward. 

Rest in Peace, Barney. Thank you for sharing your life with us.


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## tikiandme

Brodys Rockies said:


> This is such a good resource to help those who are facing the hard reality we all eventually face.
> 
> Over the past 42 years of having pets and eventually having to face this very hard reality and decision, I have found that we often have trouble separating our thoughts and feelings from what we want and focusing solely on what is best for our pet. For me, and my family, we have found that if we just focus on what is best for our pet, and leave our feelings out of the decision, it makes facing this hard decision just a little bit easier, though it's never easy...
> 
> Sadly, we learned this lesson the hard way. We had a Beagle, Barney that developed cancer at age 15. Our vet encouraged us to have the cancerous tumor removed. Barney recovered quickly from the procedure. Then the tumor came back. Our vet encouraged us to again have the tumor removed, so we did, and once again, Barney recovered quickly. Remember now, this was a 15-year-old Beagle that we loved so dearly. We so wanted Barney to get better and live longer. Within a few months, the tumor returned again, only this time we made the decision to think solely about Barney. He was now 16 years old. He had given us so many wonderful years and so many great memories. Barney had lived a loving wonderful life for 16 years.
> 
> When we quit thinking about ourselves and what we wanted, we began thinking about what was best for Barney. Would he really want to go through a third surgery only to more than likely have the tumor return? It became clear to us then that putting Barney through another surgery wasn't the best decision for Barney, so as sad as we were, we focused on Barney and made the decision to end his suffering.
> 
> I'll never forget how this lil ole Beagle went to sleep on my lap. I felt all the quivering and the tenseness in his body give way to a blissful sleep from the sedative the vet provided. The vet gave me time to be with Barney until I was ready to say goodbye to our dear family friend. Once the medication was administered to stop his heart, Barney's suffering was over. I realized then that this was the most caring and loving thing I could have ever done for my dog... Yeah, I cried my eyes out, but in time the tears and pain eased and life continued.
> 
> I swore then that I would never again think about us when faced with having to make this difficult decision. Sadly we have had to go through this same process more times than I would have wanted. I've learned from past history that this is the hard part of having pets. They never do live as long as we would like, but oh how wonderful they are to have in our lives for the time we're given with them.
> 
> I hope this may help someone facing this hard decision going forward.
> 
> Rest in Peace, Barney. Thank you for sharing your life with us.


 I have a Barney who just turned 2 years old in January. I hope I can do the right thing when the time comes as bravely as you have for your Barney.


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## Prism Goldens

Prism Goldens said:


> http://vet.osu.edu/assets/pdf/hospital/companionAnimals/HonoringtheBond/HowDoIKnowWhen.pdf
> 
> Having to counsel someone today- this is very interesting and mostly I agree with the point scales, though with a Golden- the 5 points for good coat are a gimme...
> feeling sad.


Disturbs that this is so hard to find now... I tried two links and no -go, page not found. So I wrote to the ECC person @ OSU and asked him to get this page back up where it is easily found again. I dk if the original link is do-able or not but hope to hear soon.


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## Prism Goldens

Spoke to Joelle at OSU- they are going to make it interactive again,but for now we must use our math skills.. it is on this page :
https://vet.osu.edu/vmc/sites/defau...cisions brocure-web layout (2019) digital.pdf

She said if a person in that position prints out the chart and highlights are done, more to the left should be a visual. She suggested doing this multiple times, over time.


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## farouche

When our last golden Thor was ill, I used a similar scale. It was very helpful. Even with giving him the benefit of the doubt and a better score when something was ambiguous, I was able to chart a definite decline over a period of time. It helped me see what I didn't necessarily want to see.


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## pot of gold

When Bear turned 10 we stared looking at the life quality we wonted him to have and how to keep him happy.My wife and I both know that he would be miserable if he was ever unable to move or be active,and that we would properly have him put to sleep.Luckily this never happened and Bear was active till the day he died, I remember playing fetch with him on evening he passed, he went in his sleep at about 3 in the morning.He was 13.
Hopefully when its Lilly's time we will be clear headed and able to make the right decision for her, but it's always a rough topic.


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## 3 goldens

My Irish Setter, Boots was 12 yrs 3 months when diaingnosed with very aggressive bon cancer in his knee. We had 3 choices. 1. Amputate that day. 2. Bring him home the few days until he stopped eating or getting up and nth bring him back in to be sent to the Bridge. 3 Do nothing and just let him die on his own. My vet knew I would never accept #3. Our hearts told us to amputate but I minds told us he was 12, he had arthritis really bad in his hips, and there was no way of knowing if it had already spread. He could be put thru that surgery only to have the cancer flare up elsewhere. We opted for #2. However that "few days" turned into exactly 10 weeks. I took him fishing every day and he swam, tormented crabs in shallow water, got after shore birds. I stopped by the vet 2-3 tims a week and he would shake his head and say "I don't understand it, but we do not have to do it yet." I fed him no-no food tht he loved--made him the same dessert we had every night be it strawberry shortcake, banana split, pie & ice cream, cake. He loved fruits and veggies and he had his own letttuce and tomato salad almost every night, melon, etc. But the day came he was no so active and the nexty day he fell and couldn't get up. I made the decision to let him go that day. He had enjoyed life to the last day. I have never regretted it. This was in 1997


Our golden retriever Sophie was fine one day, unable to get up the next--hemangiosarcoma. There was no having to think Nothing could be done for her. This was in '16. Same with our Great Pyrenees, Shaggy in '14. Fine one day, down the next morning. No decision to have to be made.

Our Pyrenees Sir Moose was diagnosed with liver disease and given 6 months tops. He rfused the hepatic food, and I cooked for him and we had him 23 months. Then he refused to eat suppr, and breakfast the next morning and I knew it was time. Up until then he was eating twice a day and wanting his daily walk and lots of pets and bushings. This was last Dec. Our golden girl Honey had lymphoma and sh let us know when it was time. Most I did not have to make the ral decision, was taken out of my hands. It is alwasy so hard, but we do it becaue w love oru dogs so much and do not want them to suffer.




It is hard to mak th


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## Lukesdad

I have a 12 year old, 81-lb. Golden whose hips have been getting progressively worse. As of today, he can't stand up on his own at all. He has had diarrhea for the past two days, and had no interest in his kibble, but he did eat chicken & rice last night. The vet has given him some denamarin for his liver and metronidazole (Flagyl) for the diarrhea. He's only had 400mg of the metronidazole (1.5 tablets). Is that enough to cause him to further lose his ability to stand? He hasn't had a bowel movement since yesterday morning, when it was totally liquid. Any thoughts on what I can do for him? How best to enable him to have a bowel movement when he can't stand up? Thanks!


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## Prism Goldens

I'm so sorry for Luke. And for you- it's hard to keep them cleaned up when they have no control of their bodies. My aunt had a Cocker who could not defecate without her help- your dog is probably too big to do this with but she got in front of him, put arms on either side of his body and his chin on her shoulder, and grasped his upper thighs, pulling him into poop position and then her husband or whoever she could get stimulated to poop (maybe not necessary in your dog's case but hers had no ability to tell he needed to poop) by sticking a finger in and kinda hooking it into the sphincter which started the process for him. Metronidiazole should slow down the diarrhea, certainly by this morning if it is going to work. And while it's better to poop daily he doesn't really have to especially if his bowel was emptied by diarrhea yesterday. My aunt only pooped her dog every other day. When she had no help, she sat him on the toilet and stimmed him herself. I can't see that working w an 81# dog.


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## Lukesdad

Prism Goldens said:


> I'm so sorry for Luke. And for you- it's hard to keep them cleaned up when they have no control of their bodies. My aunt had a Cocker who could not defecate without her help- your dog is probably too big to do this with but she got in front of him, put arms on either side of his body and his chin on her shoulder, and grasped his upper thigh, pulling him into poop position and then her husband or whoever she could get stimulated to poop (maybe not necessary in your dog's case but hers had no ability to tell he needed to poop) by sticking a finger in and kinda hooking it into the sphincter which started the process for him. Metronidiazole should slow down the diarrhea, certainly by this morning if it is going to work. And while it's better to poop daily he doesn't really have to especially if his bowel was emptied by diarrhea yesterday. My aunt only pooped her dog every other day. When she had no help, she sat him on the toilet and stimmed him herself. I can't see that working w an 81# dog.


Thank you for taking the time to reply. I think, however, that, as you note, those solutions just would be a bit tough with a dog as big as Luke.


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## cwag

I am so very sorry you and Luke are going through this. My Tawny lost her ability to stand when she was about 12 and a half. She wasn't on any medication. She looked at me with a look in her eye that clearly said, "I'm done, do something." She was only about 57 pounds but I could not get her out by myself or leave her to go to work so we had the vet come and let her go. It was sad but I knew for her, it was the right choice. I have had another dog where the choice was not so obvious and even 2 years later I feel conflicted about it. Prayers for wisdom and courage for you.


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## Lukesdad

cwag said:


> I am so very sorry you and Luke are going through this. My Tawny lost her ability to stand when she was about 12 and a half. She wasn't on any medication. She looked at me with a look in her eye that clearly said, "I'm done, do something." She was only about 57 pounds but I could not get her out by myself or leave her to go to work so we had the vet come and let her go. It was sad but I knew for her, it was the right choice. I have had another dog where the choice was not so obvious and even 2 years later I feel conflicted about it. Prayers for wisdom and courage for you.


Thank you for your thoughtful reply.


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