# Golden Retriever or Nova Scotia Duck Tolling - Retriever?



## Deber (Aug 23, 2011)

Boy, I see golden similarities, but no border collie, really could be a Trollier/golden mix? We have another duo here & Rufus looks a lot like his dog. Hope Pete see's this thread and responds for you. No matter, he is one nice looking boy for sure! He looks so intense and bet he is smart as a whip. Thank you for rescuing this boy, you have a heart of gold!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

You know... I've seen a lot of Tollers at recent shows and I really do not think they are anything like goldens at all. Their focus and behavior and expressions are quite a bit different. And that's even with field/performance type goldens they get compared to most because of their small size and coloring (the boys are supposed to be 18-21" tops at the shoulder, male goldens should be 22-24" tops). The ones I've seen at shows are pretty small. A lot of the tollers that I've seen have the lighter eyes, which would be a fault with goldens. 

Sorry I just had to get that off my chest. 

Your dog definitely does have the markings like the tollers I've seen and 70 lbs sounds like he's smaller than your average male golden. His head and ears remind me a lot more of goldens vs tollers. He has a very sweet face<:

As far as handling or training - I would not handle one differently than I would a golden retriever.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

he looks like a toller to me... is larger than a typical toller but he looks like a toller.... as far as size I can say that all of my males run about 70 lbs. my adult puppies are running about 70 lbs... very few show golden males run much more than 70-75 lbs 

however, he looks like a toller. I generally find tollers to be more aloof and a little more snarky... not as devoted as goldens. I am not expert but that is my two cents...


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## janababy (Jan 2, 2012)

I am of no help here, but he is gorgeous.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Maybe a Toller-Golden cross rather than Golden-BC cross, then. At 70 lbs I do not think he would be pure NSDTR. I know quite a few of them and that would be massive for the breed.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

sterregold said:


> Maybe a Toller-Golden cross rather than Golden-BC cross, then. At 70 lbs I do not think he would be pure NSDTR. I know quite a few of them and that would be massive for the breed.


that makes the most sense


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## FeatherRiverSam (Aug 7, 2009)

He looks like Woody's twin...










What do you think?










Woody was a rescue who picked me when he was about 1 1/2 or 2 years old.  He weights 72 pounds and is a real goof ball. He has all the markings of a Toller, white blaze on the chest, white stockings and a tiny bit of white at the tip of his tail.

He has the personality of a Golden with a real desire to please. After researching it a bit I've decided he's likely a cross between the two and given him the title of a Duck Tolling Golden Retriever...

Believe me everyone will have a different opinion as to what he heritage may be but the best thing to do if you really want to know is have a DNA test done. I plan to have one done sometime this month...I'll post the results.

Claire's Friend was kind enough to do a bit of research and came up with the following company which includes Toller's in their listing.

Wisdom Panel® Professional
230+ breeds, types and varieties

Good luck in your search.

Pete


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## rvp88 (Feb 8, 2012)

FeatherRiverSam said:


> He looks like Woody's twin...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for this information, we may just go ahead and get that done! Rufus does look like a twin of your beautiful dog but definitely has a toller personality. I think for now we would consider him a golden/toller mix due to his size/face. His previous owner got rid of him because of his extreme energy and stubbornness which she did not have the time for.

Thanks for all the help!


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

I see toller. What ever he is he is a handsome fellow.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Depending on where you live a Toller or a Toller mix may be more or less likely. I would say he is a Golden mix and the white markings (a modified Irish Pattern) is quite common in Retriever/Herding mixes.

Tollers are quite a bit smaller, typically a darker red and many do not have any white on them. I have a friend who is a Toller breeder (she does breed, field and agility with her dogs) and her dogs look quite different than yours. They have a narrower, shorter, pointier muzzle, smaller ears and a denser shorter coat. They can have dark pigment with dark eyes or liver pigment with lighter eyes (neither is preferred by the standard).

Toller personalities are also quite different than a Golden personality. They are far less outgoing/goofy/laid back. They are unlikely to run up to meet new people and are generally a more serious dog.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Selli-Belle said:


> Depending on where you live a Toller or a Toller mix may be more or less likely. I would say he is a Golden mix and the white markings (a modified Irish Pattern) is quite common in Retriever/Herding mixes.
> 
> Tollers are quite a bit smaller, typically a darker red and many do not have any white on them. I have a friend who is a Toller breeder (she does breed, field and agility with her dogs) and her dogs look quite different than yours. They have a narrower, shorter, pointier muzzle, smaller ears and a denser shorter coat. They can have dark pigment with dark eyes or liver pigment with lighter eyes (neither is preferred by the standard).
> 
> Toller personalities are also quite different than a Golden personality. They are far less outgoing/goofy/laid back. They are unlikely to run up to meet new people and are generally a more serious dog.


Yes--and lots of Borders have white markings precisely where his are placed. So do lots of Tollers--it is believed there is herding/farmdog heritage in the breed, so it kind of makes sense. Even for a rarer breed there is a fair bit of variation--as a Canadian breed we see quite a few of them here and there is a variation in coat length and density, colour range (from a light orange-y colour up to a deep reddish tone), and bone between the various lines. Some of the people breeding more for the show ring are tending to have a stockier, more heavily coated dog, and in some lines the bitches are teensy! 
So hard to say wether it would be Toller influence or BC influence without DNA--and even that is not very certain--I know someone who did the test as an experiment with their Golden and it came back as a mix!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Some of the people breeding more for the show ring are tending to have a stockier, more heavily coated dog, and in some lines the bitches are teensy!


The ones I saw at the last show were small and stocky. Cattle dog size.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Megora and I are likely talking about the same dogs, Corinne William's Urania Tollers


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## Claire's Friend (Feb 26, 2007)

I got to meet one in person at the last dog show I was at. He was a really sweet dog, but not the bubbly, enthusiastic Golden personality I am used to. He seemed way more interested in his owners than anything else. Also his features seemed more refined, sharp not as wispy as a Golden, if that makes any since. Beautiful dogs, but not nearly as much like a Golden as I thought they would be. He was small too , about 55 lbs and full grown.


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## SadieT (Nov 3, 2021)

rvp88 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Was hoping someone familiar with the differences between the two breeds could help us out. Rufus, who we adopted when he was around 2, is pictured below. We were told originally that he was a golden retriever/border collie mix but recently we had a woman who shows her dogs professionally tell us that he is a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever. After looking up this breed, his mannerisms are much closer to it than a golden and it helps explain why he is so different in terms of behavior from other goldens we know. The only thing about Rufus is that he is big(70 lbs) and his face resembles more of a golden.
> 
> We are not interested in showing him or anything, but would like to know his breed for training purposes/become better owners.


I


rvp88 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Was hoping someone familiar with the differences between the two breeds could help us out. Rufus, who we adopted when he was around 2, is pictured below. We were told originally that he was a golden retriever/border collie mix but recently we had a woman who shows her dogs professionally tell us that he is a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever. After looking up this breed, his mannerisms are much closer to it than a golden and it helps explain why he is so different in terms of behavior from other goldens we know. The only thing about Rufus is that he is big(70 lbs) and his face resembles more of a golden.
> 
> We are not interested in showing him or anything, but would like to know his breed for training purposes/become better owners.


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