# PPPPPlease Help



## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Are the Shih tzus neutered? Is Cotton? How old are the Shih Tzus?


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## casico (Dec 11, 2009)

no one is neutered and i wont do that, the little dogs are about 7 months old


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Four pounds sounds unhealthy (too small) for a ShihTzu. Have they been vet checked?

Interrupt and redirect behavior that you don't like. Consistency is key.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

There is your problem. Your Golden is an adolescent un-neutered male. The Shih Tzus are young un-neutered males. Everyone is filled with testosterone and getting more everyday. Unless, like Quiz advised, you consistently redirect every time Cotton shows behavior you don't like, it won't stop until the dogs are considerably older, if at all.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

The sniffing and licking won't stop unless (a) you train the dogs to knock it off or (b) the dogs themselves put a stop to unwelcome 'milking'. 

If it helps - the first few weeks that you've brought new dogs into the house (and it doesn't matter if they are neutered or not), the older dog thinks of them as this fascinating new toy that smells and tastes good. 

If you don't nip this in the bud, the sniffing and licking will turn into mounting. An unneutered dog needs to know a few boundaries and 'nonos' otherwise they do get kooky ideas.

Best suggestion is to limit their together activity for a while until your dog calms down and knows his manners. 

Be patient, and tell your wife and your daughter to help you train all the dogs. Crating isn't the answer, as it will only make your dog more neurotic about the little furballs. 

ETA - it will take a few weeks to sort this out. It is worth going through all of the training and monitoring, because your dog will calm down and stop sniffing/licking the other dogs out instantly when you give him the word. 

You could neuter him, I suppose... but that will take a few weeks of other training and monitoring (keeping your dog from licking _himself_, keeping him restrained so he doesn't tear anything or develop bad infections which lead to hotspots)...


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

You mention in your other thread that none of the dogs are neutered and you would never do that? Can you explain why, especially if it means that your dog wouldn't have to stay in a crate all day long while the other dogs get free roam? Do you honestly think being neutered is crueler than being crated all the time?


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## GoldenSummer (Mar 26, 2010)

I'm not an expert, but I grew up with a Golden, we eventually got a Shihpoo (Shihtzu/poodle mix) who was a male (so was our Golden) and we had issues more so with Cody (the Shihpoo) being out of control sexually. My mom currently has two Shihztus and granted they are female, it does cause an issue if dogs aren't fixed. Their playing now, and their young so its not such a worry. But you, yourself said they are getting rougher and it will keep getting that way. Eventually the dogs will fight for dominance and it is quite possible that one could get seriously hurt, or if your dealing with an 85 pound vs 7 pound dog then possibly killed just by sure size and weight difference. Goldens can be very calm and relaxed, Shitzus aren't they generally take a while before they calm down. If you want to prevent issues, talk with your vet, and arrange for at least the shihtzus to get fixed. Thats my opinion...

(also, punishing the Golden for a natural behavior I think is wrong, it will probably also make the male Shihtzus think they have a chance at 'top dog' title and try to push the Golden out of that role. You should always treat the dog that has been there the longest first (i.e. when giving cookies) and this can help prevent issues because the smaller dogs will see he gets food and treats and attention first, just like what would happen in a pack of dogs in the wild.)


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## casico (Dec 11, 2009)

Well to tell the truth it never occured to me to cut them. I wojuldnt want it and he isnt going to have it. His behaviour in the house and outside is impecable, the cageing is a threat from my wife to keep him from licking and to the other question the dogs are a mix of chiuaua and shtzuh that is why they are small they have been to the vet several times and no issues with them,
so any help


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

OMG, i come here, just to do some reading with people who love goldens, and there is stuff like this!!


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## jealous1 (Dec 7, 2007)

My most recent addition is a ~4-5 year old golden, who came to us unneutered. I scheduled the surgery as soon as possible but still had about 3 days before getting him in. Our senior male rottweiller (who has been neutered) would not leave him alone, pretty much doing the same behavior you're describing. Since the neutering, we have not had anymore of this type of behavior. 

Personally, I would not want a dog that was not spayed/neutered but then again, all of my dogs are rescue dogs and I learned a long time I am not knowledgeable enough to get into the breeding aspects of dogs and enjoy really being involved in rescue. I have found that whenever I bring a foster that has not been fixed, the other dogs are alot more interested in continually checking out the new guy/gal.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Just an FYI, dogs don't feel human emotions. Just because you personally wouldn't want to be neutered doesn't mean your dog feels the same way.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

casico said:


> no one is neutered and i wont do that, the little dogs are about 7 months old


Unless at least 2 of them are neutered, them licking each other will be the least of your problems.


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## 58loosy (Apr 18, 2010)

I agree with you goldensr'best. Don't like to hear about crating a golden, he was with you first, either neuter them or find good homes for your shizu's.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Punishing your Golden by crating him for a totally natural behavior is wrong.

If you need to separate them, put up a baby gate and keep the little dogs in part of the house and your Golden in another part of the house. 

I agree with others who have said that if you leave all these male dogs intact you will eventually have big fights between them.

I guarantee you, if you have them neutered you will never miss those parts, and neither will they. But you will have male dogs that can get along better and make your life much more enjoyable with them.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Now that you have been educated, please educate your wife. It is cruel to punish a dog for a behavior that is natural.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

Let me try to show you why your thinking is very backwards. So you'd rather go through your life constantly feeling the need to mate knowing that you would never be allowed to? That is pretty much what you are doing to your dogs. Dogs are not people - when they go to get neutered they don't think, OMG my owner is cutting my balls off!! nor will they dwell on the fact that a body part is missing. Getting them neutered allows them NOT to dwell on bouncy bouncy and allows them to just be themselves without that cloud of hormones always hanging over their head.

My Max is over a year and I'm glad you posted this because I've seen this behavior with another boy dog and it disturbed me. I am happy to see that redirection can work. I was going to try to wait until 2 years to get the snipping done due to growing concerns (and if your golden is a young lad you might want to think about that) but I am thinking now for 18 months. It's not that Max misbehaves at all in the house because of it but because having an unneutered dog is a lot of extra responsibility and I really have to monitor his interactions and keep him apart from some dogs he'd been playing with all his life. Neutering will allow him to play with any dog he wants to without him acting inappropriately/worrying about if intact females may also be out and about because honestly, it's only during that small amount of time that I really see puberty rearing it's ugly head.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Casico*

Neutering a male dog and spaying a female dog is for their own good-health wise as well.

We have always neutered and spayed our dogs and we have never had the issue you are describing. Our Samoyed pup was just neutered at the age of 9 months.


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

fostermom said:


> Just an FYI, dogs don't feel human emotions. Just because you personally wouldn't want to be neutered doesn't mean your dog feels the same way.


Exactly. You don't really think your dog will think about his neutering do you? He won't even know "they're" gone. 

This idea is just about as silly (IMO) as the guy posting some months back about not wanting to microchip his dog because it in some way may invaded their privacy. :doh:


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

I'm going to echo the statement that male dogs don't think the way a human male does. Neutering makes for a much happier, healthier dog than not neutering. Ranger is way happier a year after his neuter than he was when he was intact. He's no longer looking for ways out of the yard, no longer running off when he spots an open door/gate...he's happy to chill in his home with his people and we are happy to have him because he shows no behavioural problems associated with intact male dogs. Ranger is able to play with all dogs because HE no longer wants to be "top dog" and let his testosterone rule his actions.

You have three dogs that are already having problems and disrupting your household to the point you're having to crate a young golden almost all the time. Why not get them fixed and then they can enjoy (and YOU can enjoy) spending time with each other? Problem solved!

Let's look at the pros and cons of getting your dogs fixed.
Pro:
- No more behavioural issues associated with intact males - marking, humping, etc
- You won't have to spend as much time re-directing such unwanted behaviours since they'll (mostly) disappear
- Your dogs will be able to live together instead of the golden being crated which is completely unfair to him
- No fights between 3 unneutered males vying for top spot which WILL happen.
- The shitzus won't get hurt when the 60 lb male golden decides he's going to fight for alpha status
- Your golden won't have to be crated
- Your dogs will get along better and be easier to control
- The household will be more peaceful, less stressed
- You'll enjoy spending time with your dogs since they won't be trying to a) kill each other b) mark where every other dog has gone, etc.

Cons:
- Your dogs won't have a piece of equipment that they couldn't care less about.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

Ranger said:


> I'm going to echo the statement that male dogs don't think the way a human male does. Neutering makes for a much happier, healthier dog than not neutering. Ranger is way happier a year after his neuter than he was when he was intact. He's no longer looking for ways out of the yard, no longer running off when he spots an open door/gate...he's happy to chill in his home with his people and we are happy to have him because he shows no behavioural problems associated with intact male dogs. Ranger is able to play with all dogs because HE no longer wants to be "top dog" and let his testosterone rule his actions.
> 
> You have three dogs that are already having problems and disrupting your household to the point you're having to crate a young golden almost all the time. Why not get them fixed and then they can enjoy (and YOU can enjoy) spending time with each other? Problem solved!
> 
> ...


Very well said. Crating a golden, or any dog, all the time because the owner refuses to do the right thing is completely unfair to the dog.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I am by no means against neutering a dog, but it isn't always a magical fix to solve all those problems. It likely wouldn't stop him from licking body parts, there are plenty of neutered dogs out there that are still lickers. And I know plenty of neutered boys who mark, hump, and fight.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

True, but it would help lessen the frequency of those behaviours - especially considering we're talking about three non-neutered males, not just one.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Flip likes to lick my boys' "stuff" too, but I think it's because he likes the taste of urine. As soon as one of the other boys is done outside, Flip runs up and starts licking (I guess he's the doggy version of toilet paper :uhoh. When he was a puppy he would immediately lick up his own urine :yuck:


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Get the dogs neutered and transplant some balls on yourself so you can tell your wife that punishing a dog for doing something any dog without training and redirection would do is ridiculous and wrong and that you won't stand for it.

Sorry, harsh but true.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

missmarstar said:


> Get the dogs neutered and transplant some balls on yourself so you can tell your wife that punishing a dog for doing something any dog without training and redirection would do is ridiculous and wrong and that you won't stand for it.
> 
> Sorry, harsh but true.


:cavalry: Good one! :cavalry:


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## Kally76 (Jun 14, 2010)

First, just let me say that I do agree they all need to be neutered. All those hormones in your home at once is going to cause a mess in the future. With that being said, I worked part-time at a vets office for a couple of years. A lady brought her male in for the same reason said she was fed up with it. He was already neutered and didn't know why he kept doing it. Well, come to find out her other male dog that he kept licking had an infection and he was cleaning it. Just check and make sure you don't see any type of greenish discharge. They could have some type of infection.


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## Duke's Momma (Mar 1, 2007)

Okay, so this is the deal - - - - if you are not going to breed your golden GET HIM NEUTERED! Honestly. There are enough unwanted puppies around. To allow him to be unaltered with never planning on breeding is being a totally unresponsible owner. There is absolutely no reason in the world to keep him intact.


In your defense, you said that your wife was the one that was threatening to crate your golden, not you. I can't remember now why you have the two other dogs, but it sounds like she doesn't like your golden. Is that true?

Okay, so I read why you have the other 2 dogs. Re-home them and when your daughter is old enough to have her own place or when she does have her own place she can do what she wants. Find a rescue or something. I feel bad for all of the dogs but Cotton is your first responsibility.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

The guy asked for help stopping a behavior, one that I seriously doubt would be stopped by neutering.

It is possible to be a responsible pet owner and still keep non-breeding dogs intact. Is the OP responsible enough for that? I don't know, but I didn't see anything in the post that truly says othewise. I don't see any need to jump all over him for not having his dogs neutered.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

My concern is the wife's plan to keep the golden crated all the time. That is cruel and abusive treatment. Not to mention the fights that will most likely ensue from having 3 intact males in the same house.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Loisiana said:


> The guy asked for help stopping a behavior, one that I seriously doubt would be stopped by neutering.
> 
> It is possible to be a responsible pet owner and still keep non-breeding dogs intact. Is the OP responsible enough for that? I don't know, but I didn't see anything in the post that truly says othewise. I don't see any need to jump all over him for not having his dogs neutered.


An intact male Golden Retriever, crated all the time because wifey doesn't like him, is NOT going to be a happy camper with two intact ankle biters running around him, and there is no way that 3 intact males are going to get along.
The Golden was there first, supposedly a beloved dog, until two little stray accessory-dogs were brought into the home and the women preferred them. So, the Golden gets to be locked up all the time. That's really nice, and responsible.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Ithink sometimes people come on here, post things just to get us all going! LOVE THE IDEA OF TRANSPLANTED BALLS, ON HIMSELF.


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## Duke's Momma (Mar 1, 2007)

Loisiana said:


> The guy asked for help stopping a behavior, one that I seriously doubt would be stopped by neutering.
> 
> It is possible to be a responsible pet owner and still keep non-breeding dogs intact. Is the OP responsible enough for that? I don't know, but I didn't see anything in the post that truly says othewise. I don't see any need to jump all over him for not having his dogs neutered.


Okay, so I got off topic a tad and I should have probably said IMHO, but it's still my opinion that a non-breeding animal of any kind should be neutered. Period. You cannot keep an eye on your intact "anything" 100% of the time. Stallions mount mares through fences. There's an overpopulation of cats running all over the place and almost as many oops where puppies are concerned. Totally unfair to all the dogs in this situation.

I'll drop the subject now.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Kally76 said:


> First, just let me say that I do agree they all need to be neutered. All those hormones in your home at once is going to cause a mess in the future. With that being said, I worked part-time at a vets office for a couple of years. A lady brought her male in for the same reason said she was fed up with it. He was already neutered and didn't know why he kept doing it. Well, come to find out her other male dog that he kept licking had an infection and he was cleaning it. Just check and make sure you don't see any type of greenish discharge. They could have some type of infection.


This is a good point that hadn't been brought up before. Have the dog he is licking checked for a urinary tract infection just to be sure this is no medical reason for the attention.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Neutering these dogs may very well solve the problem. The original post said this behavior was recent and given the age of the puppies (7 months), it seems likely that it started when the Shih Tzus reached sexual maturity, and the Golden at 16 months is at the age when his testosterone is sky high. Sure there are some dogs who will lick urine off a dogs penis, but this behavior seems more sexual.

It may be possible that these dogs can live forever without having fights, it depends on the personalities of the dogs. However, I really don't believe that the problem of Cotton licking the other dogs will resolve without neutering.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

I'm surprised there are so many people saying to neuter the 7 month old - I think that's his age - and no one saying well, wait 2 years as a lot of members here do. Not being snippy, just observant. I guess maybe because the OP is an unknown but even then, I still am surprised that hasn't really been anyone on that side of the coin.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

The dog doing the licking, and who is about to be locked in a crate, is 16 months old.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

Jackson'sMom said:


> The dog doing the licking, and who is about to be locked in a crate, is 16 months old.


Ah, well, then it's 2 months away from what I think is feasible for my household. I guess then it's a good as time as any!! That's your choice of course, but I agree - I would never crate Max for such behavior. If it would get to be such a problem and I couldn't redirect it, I would have to move up the snip snip timeframe.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

momtoMax said:


> I'm surprised there are so many people saying to neuter the 7 month old - I think that's his age - and no one saying well, wait 2 years as a lot of members here do. Not being snippy, just observant. I guess maybe because the OP is an unknown but even then, I still am surprised that hasn't really been anyone on that side of the coin.


I was just reading this thread this morning and thinking much the same thing. I understand the stance of many on this forum in favor of spay/neuter for all non-breeding animals... but neutering a dog is not an instant cure for all behavioral issues. Even if the dogs were all neutered tomorrow, there would still be a certain level of management and redirection needed as habits have already been formed. And while there have long been claims that neutering is beneficial to dogs' health... a sentiment I saw stated earlier in this thread... there is honestly at least as much evidence that it is not and may in some instances do more harm than good (especially when performed too early).

I also don't believe that it is a foregone conclusion that there will be some big melee in this house for dominance. If the humans are doing their jobs, training and socializing the dogs properly, and providing a stable form of benign leadership... there is no need for the dogs to vie for anything. Not all countries are as apt to spay and neuter as we are in the US, and I'm sure many of our British members could tell us about their multi-male households living in harmony. An intact dog is not necessarily a hostile, neurotic, wandering escape artist. And it is absolutely possible to maintain an intact dog without bringing unwanted/unplanned puppies into the world. Sure it takes work, but I can't imagine I would supervise or manage my dog any differently if he were neutered... it's all part of being a responsible dog owner. Do I know whether the OP is capable of doing these things? No, I haven't the slightest clue. But the suggestion to neuter has been offered and rejected... continuing to aggressively push the issue and present neutering as the only answer isn't going to help anyone. 

Why not try to find out more information like we do with the other behavioral issues that people post about. How much exercise are these dogs getting? What kind of training have you done with them? Are there specific times you notice this behavior more than others (ie first thing in the morning, after rousing play, after walks)? What types of interaction are typical for these dogs -- do they have access to each other 24/7 or restricted, lots of physical play, usually peacefully co-exist? Have all the dogs been thoroughly looked over by a vet? Have the dogs drawing the attention specifically been tested for UTI? 

The main problem as I see it is humans over-reacting to natural canine behavior. To many humans this is disgusting, perhaps even perverse, behavior. Get over it -- it's dogs being dogs! Crating the one dog for acting "unseemly" isn't going to solve anything and is more likely to increase problem behaviors rather than alleviating them. If you don't like the behavior, interrupt and redirect. If that isn't enough, have the golden drag a leash so you can bring him away for a brief time out (approx. 1 minute) when he exhibits the behavior. Eventually he will learn that it is more advantageous to find alternate ways of interacting with the other dogs.... but be warned, it will take consistency on the part of all members of your house and you will have to restrict their interactions when they cannot be supervised so he is not practicing this self-reinforcing behavior. Consulting with a private trainer and/or joining a basic obedience class will go a long way toward helping you learn to manage all of the dogs. If I'm reading right there's 3 dogs and 3 people (you, your wife, your daughter).... it's a perfect match, sign all of you up! 

Julie and Jersey

PS~ All that said, I would advise the OP not to dismiss neutering out of hand... you really do have to take into account the dogs you have, consult with your vet and trainer(s), and make the best decision for your pack - be it now or when the dogs have reached maturity. Either way, it can't be an emotional knee-jerk decision on your point and you cannot base your choice on the value you put on your dog's "masculinity."


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Hey look at that Julie, our posts agree on something! 

Now don't go making me lose my debate buddy! :


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Jackson'sMom said:


> The dog doing the licking, and who is about to be locked in a crate, is 16 months old.


 
And the larger of the dogs. Toy breeds reach physical and sexual maturity much sooner than do Golden Retrievers, and they do not have the issues associated with early neutering that large breeds do.


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## 2DogsN3Cats (May 25, 2010)

I have 2 unneutered males in my house without any dominance issues, fighting, running away, humping (each other or humans)....I do have weenie licking though and with constant redirection and telling both "No Dingy Licking" it has cut down immensely. I noticed that they dont 'groom' each other anymore and only lick themselves when coming in from potty breaks. (No UTIs or infections either). If you keep an eye on it and both you and your wife go at it as a team it will be possible to stop them from licking each others privates.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Yeah, let's just ignore all the truly compelling reasons to alter them.


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## 2DogsN3Cats (May 25, 2010)

Its a suggestion not a solution written in stone, I personally wasnt ignoring any 'compelling reasons to alter them', just offering a possible suggestion to help curb the behavior. 

For the record, my dogs arent neutered on the advice of my vet, she suggested waiting till after both were 2 yrs old to get them fixed.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

I don't think the "pro-neuter NOW (or yesterday)" group on this thread is saying EVERYONE should neuter their intact males immediately. We're saying the OP should get it done because his golden retriever is getting crated for unnecessary lengths of time because the wife is unhappy with the golden's behaviour and making him stay in the crate as a result. Yes, lots of posters on here would be able to handle it through use of redirection/training etc, but since that appears to not be happening and the golden is getting crated for it...well, I'd rather see a dog lose his nuts than his freedom.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Ranger said:


> well, I'd rather see a dog lose his nuts than his freedom.


:appl: I agree.


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## 2DogsN3Cats (May 25, 2010)

Ranger said:


> I don't think the "pro-neuter NOW (or yesterday)" group on this thread is saying EVERYONE should neuter their intact males immediately. We're saying the OP should get it done because his golden retriever is getting crated for unnecessary lengths of time because the wife is unhappy with the golden's behaviour and making him stay in the crate as a result. Yes, lots of posters on here would be able to handle it through use of redirection/training etc, but since that appears to not be happening and the golden is getting crated for it...well, I'd rather see a dog lose his nuts than his freedom.


 
I do agree with you. I think I just took (what I assumed was) the condescending tone of the other statement a smidgen too personally. I take a lot of flack for not neutering my dogs as early as humanly possible.

In all honestly Id rather see the dogs go to a better home where neutering and training would happen but if someone is willing to find a forum for information there is a chance they are willing to listen to suggestions. If they are completely unwilling to neuter their dogs (which I gathered that assumption from when he said that he wouldnt do it) I immediately went to what other way could possibly help them. Hopefully the golden isnt being crated ( I believe he said his wife was going to start doing it, not that she did already) and the OP actually reads this thread and tries to fix it and hopefully his wife reads this and sees that shes being a little unreasonable and needs to get with the program and get off her butt and try and help fix the situation instead of complaining about it. Its not going to get better locking the dog in a box, and its definately not going to get better having two other dogs running around instigating a crated dog. All three dogs need to have some training and all 3 need to be neutered...In an ideal situation, but if I have to pick one of the two Ill pick the training, atleast then the dogs will gain something.


IMHO!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I'd lean toward neutering everyone b/c frankly, a household where the answer to a behavior problem is "keep the offender crated" doesn't strike me as potentially responsible enough to safely manage three intact males in terms of inter-pack relations and likelihood of accidental breedings. I don't mean to offend; just my opinion.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

FlyingQuizini said:


> I'd lean toward neutering everyone b/c frankly, a household where the answer to a behavior problem is "keep the offender crated" doesn't strike me as potentially responsible enough to safely manage three intact males in terms of inter-pack relations and likelihood of accidental breedings. I don't mean to offend; just my opinion.


 
Exactly what I thought - very well put.


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## timberwolf (Apr 1, 2009)

FlyingQuizini said:


> I'd lean toward neutering everyone b/c frankly, a household where the answer to a behavior problem is "keep the offender crated" doesn't strike me as potentially responsible enough to safely manage three intact males in terms of inter-pack relations and likelihood of accidental breedings. I don't mean to offend; just my opinion.


Steph, I think you just hit the nail on the head!!!!!


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> I'd lean toward neutering everyone b/c frankly, a household where the answer to a behavior problem is "keep the offender crated" doesn't strike me as potentially responsible enough to safely manage three intact males in terms of inter-pack relations and likelihood of accidental breedings. I don't mean to offend; just my opinion.



That was my reasoning too. I have an intact adult non-breeding dog, so obviously my mentality isn't just neuter every dog that walks no matter what, but in this situation I think that's the responsible thing to do.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

And isn't it interesting the OP hasn't posted any replies to these suggestions??? I am concerned that the household's 'solution' to this 'problem' is to lock up one of the dogs.


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## casico (Dec 11, 2009)

Debles said:


> Now that you have been educated, please educate your wife. It is cruel to punish a dog for a behavior that is natural.


I came here for information and i get abuse.. you know what you all can kiss my A(* .. How dare you superior bitches tell me to educate myself and my wife. I see the reason why you have dogs and no men in your lonely lives.
Maybe u have cut all your men's balls off in your life but my dogs will die with what god gave them.,,, I am sure this will be censored but you get the picture


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

Great approach. You come here asking for advice, then when you don't like the advice you're given, you get all PO'd.


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## Dreammom (Jan 14, 2009)

Considering some of the comments, I can't say I blame him!


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

If this cant be a civil discussion from all sides it will be closed . You came here for advice, if you dont like the advice, you can give your opinion on why you dont like it without the name calling. We are all entitled to our opinions. 

I suggest a full vet visit and then speak to a behaviorist that uses positive methods in training the dogs. And please take the golden out of the crate. He was in the home first and is now being penalized for something that can be controlled by the humans in his life.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

Wow. Not that I should dignify some of that with a response but I would say most of us are either a. married b. in a relationship - myself in the latter. The truth is you are abusing your golden if you are crating him for natural behavior. I mean, out of all the comments you choose to dig on, you pick one that is short concise and very true. 

I feel bad for your dog who will likely be crated most of the time while you pat yourself on the back because you told us "know nothings" the way it is. Yeah, you look at your lovely boy in his crate looking out to the world and feel good about that. Man, that shows what a messed up attitude you have.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

Dreammom said:


> Considering some of the comments, I can't say I blame him!


 
Sorry dm, but you lost some points there in my book if you're standing up for his post. You don't blame him for what he said? You are completely okay with this man insulting and name calling the members that? You accept that you are a woman who couldn't keep a man so you dote over your dog? Not okay.


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## Dreammom (Jan 14, 2009)

I always lose points... don't really care. No I do not condone what he said, not at all, but I also don't condone the man being told to transplant a pair either!

Just not a cool way to welcome new members....people come here for help, not to get beaten over the head. I understand people are passionate about their dogs here, I am too.. but..a little kindness, compassion and tact are in order on this forum don't you think?


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## casico (Dec 11, 2009)

BeauShel said:


> If this cant be a civil discussion from all sides it will be closed . You came here for advice, if you dont like the advice, you can give your opinion on why you dont like it without the name calling. We are all entitled to our opinions.
> 
> I suggest a full vet visit and then speak to a behaviorist that uses positive methods in training the dogs. And please take the golden out of the crate. He was in the home first and is now being penalized for something that can be controlled by the humans in his life.


Close it then because i am getting angrier as i continue reading these old dried up women and their need to castrate the male gender. You people are so wrapped up in your dogs you forget they are just animals....get a life.i am gone for good. As far as crating i will do as i want. All of your think about that. You made my decision for me. On your heads


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Dreammom said:


> I always lose points... don't really care. No I do not condone what he said, not at all, but I also don't condone the man being told to transplant a pair either!
> 
> Just not a cool way to welcome new members....people come here for help, not to get beaten over the head. I understand people are passionate about their dogs here, I am too.. but..a little kindness, compassion and tact are in order on this forum don't you think?


Just an FYI, he isn't a new member. He's been a member here for 7 months. By his last post here and a post he just made in another thread, it seems that he doesn't really want any help or information, in my opinion.

Not to mention his most recent comment in this thread. He comes across as a troll who is just looking to get a rise out of all of us "dried up old women".


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

Yeah, it takes a real man to lock a dog up in a crate all the time. I feel sorry for this person's dogs.

Carol, please close this thread.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

*George Graham Vest Speech - Tribute to Dogs*


_*George Graham Vest - Tribute to Dogs (c. 1855) after winning a case against a man who killed a dog*_ *Gentlemen of the Jury: The best friend a man has in the world may turn against him and become his enemy. His son or daughter that he has reared with loving care may prove ungrateful. Those who are nearest and dearest to us, those whom we trust with our happiness and our good name may become traitors to their faith. The money that a man has, he may lose. It flies away from him, perhaps when he needs it most. A man's reputation may be sacrificed in a moment of ill-considered action. The people who are prone to fall on their knees to do us honor when success is with us, may be the first to throw the stone of malice when failure settles its cloud upon our heads. 

The one absolutely unselfish friend that man can have in this selfish world, the one that never deserts him, the one that never proves ungrateful or treacherous is his dog. A man's dog stands by him in prosperity and in poverty, in health and in sickness. He will sleep on the cold ground, where the wintry winds blow and the snow drives fiercely, if only he may be near his master's side. He will kiss the hand that has no food to offer. He will lick the wounds and sores that come in encounters with the roughness of the world. He guards the sleep of his pauper master as if he were a prince. When all other friends desert, he remains. When riches take wings, and reputation falls to pieces, he is as constant in his love as the sun in its journey through the heavens. 

If fortune drives the master forth, an outcast in the world, friendless and homeless, the faithful dog asks no higher privilege than that of accompanying him, to guard him against danger, to fight against his enemies. And when the last scene of all comes, and death takes his master in its embrace and his body is laid away in the cold ground, no matter if all other friends pursue their way, there by the graveside will the noble dog be found, his head between his paws, his eyes sad, but open in alert watchfulness, faithful and true even in death. 
**
George Graham Vest - c. 1855*

I love this speech that shows that "just a dog" is much better that most people I know and way better than well, need I go on.


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## nixietink (Apr 3, 2008)

casico said:


> Close it then because i am getting angrier as i continue reading these old dried up women and their need to castrate the male gender. You people are so wrapped up in your dogs you forget they are just animals....get a life.i am gone for good. As far as crating i will do as i want. All of your think about that. You made my decision for me. On your heads


Wow...I really feel bad for your dogs and for you.

I agree- time to close this one.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

I'd hate to see what you do to your dog when you get PO'd about other things... Yup, it's OUR fault that you're going to abuse your dog by crating him all the time. You really stuck it to us.

Guess it doesn't really matter though... it's only a dog, right?


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

casico said:


> As far as crating *i will do as i want*. *You made my decision for me*. On your heads


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## Jazz & Jules (Feb 25, 2007)

Enough said.


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