# Help! 11 week golden is being aggressive!



## StephB (Dec 26, 2011)

Sounds like very normal behaviour to me! My pup is 19 weeks and he has always been, and still is, like that. So are his siblings. I find that sometimes its because he needs more exercise, so I take him for a play on the beach and that does the trick. I also make sure he has lots of interesting toys or chew treats to divert his chewing habits.


----------



## Kinjal (Dec 26, 2011)

Steph, does yours wrinkle his nose too before he bites/ snaps at you? When he's biting you, how do you make him stop?


----------



## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Yes, very normal playing. Not aggression. He needs lots and lots of exercise everyday, several times a day. A tired puppy is a happy puppy. 

Are you crate training him? The crate is invaluable for times when you can't watch him AND for time outs when he's overly excited. And puppies excite very easily...their whole life is play, eat, sleep. And when puppies play, they bite and hump and wrestle...all the things your pup is doing with you. You have to teach him to play in other ways: by walking a lot, playing ball, gentle tug games. And you need to get him to puppy class. Working on obedience practice tires them physically and mentally.


----------



## MelMcGarry (May 2, 2010)

Sounds like your puppy is just being a puppy. I agree with Penny's Mom - wear him out and definitely go to a puppy class. Good luck with your baby!


----------



## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

This is Penny, playing. This snarly face is usually followed by her snapping her jaws shut. We call it the 'croc chop'. It's all in fun; she wouldn't dream of biting us on purpose.












Kinjal said:


> Steph, does yours wrinkle his nose too before he bites/ snaps at you? When he's biting you, how do you make him stop?


----------



## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

Welcome to the forum.

Believe me when I say most of us have been there and done that. Golden puppies are very smart and full of energy. They have a nick name here of being LandSharks. Some puppies are layed back and calm but most aren't. They have to be trained with a lot of gentle guidence and patience. Puppies experience their world through their nose and mouth. Many goldens start out very mouthy and until they are taught bite inhibition can really hurt when using that mouth. They need a nice amount of exercise and tons of mental stimulation (training house manners) and in many cases when they are that excited (biting/wrinkling their noses)they are actually over tired from to much stimulation. 
It might be a good idea to keep a journal for a few days to see when and what seems to trigger most of your puppies wild antics. You will then be able to adjust what you are doing to lesson this.

Preventing the puppy from getting so excited may help. Managing how long the pup gets to play then rest times could change this up a little. 
Baby gates/x-pens and crates can help you manage the puppy. They can be used for time outs without actually punishing the pup. When the pup is out of control you can give your pup a kong filled with goodies in the crate or x-pen where they can chill out and you can take a break.

The forum has tons of information on different things to help get you through the trying periods. With your love and training these puppies do turn out to be the best family dogs ever. But it takes lots of work.


----------



## StephB (Dec 26, 2011)

Penny's Mom said:


> This is Penny, playing. This snarly face is usually followed by her snapping her jaws shut. We call it the 'croc chop'. It's all in fun; she wouldn't dream of biting us on purpose.


haha that is exactly what Harvey does! I won't lie, the first time he did it I was so shocked I pushed him and ran away. I don't stop him from showing his teeth, but instead I either divert his bite to a toy or praise him for GENTLY mouthing, because at the end of the day he is only playing. I'll usually put my hand over his muzzle and tell him to put his teeth away. If he "bites" me (really, just uses his teeth, it never hurts or breaks the skin) then I'll pull my hand away, tap his nose and tell him no biting. When he stops, I've taught him to lick my hand on command by saying "give kisses" and when he does that he gets a toy or a treat to play with. That way, whenever he wants attention or something, he knows to either give paw or kiss without being asked. 

There has only been one instance of him being truly aggressive, and that was with a chew treat. He lowered his head and growled, and we knew he meant business! 

Otherwise the showing of teeth and mouthing isn't aggression, it's just pent up energy, excitement, playing. I won't stop him from playing but I'm going to praise him when he plays without hurting anyone.


----------



## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Stephie, that is just like Penny. She loves our hand over her muzzle. She will actually push her nose under our hand until our hand is covering her muzzle from eyes to nose.

We had a real threat like that once too. Over a steak bone. I put on my heavy leather rose gloves and 'went in'; called her bluff so to speak. I think she could give credible threat even now over a very high value treat. We don't give her anything that we would want to take away from her so the situation never arises. A little common sense goes a long way.


----------



## Kinjal (Dec 26, 2011)

Thanks for the advice- I have said no to him firmly, and try to walk away but he just wrinkles his nose and bites my ankles/legs. When I leave him outside, he looks upset for a few seconds, but then sits with his chew toy. Is this punishment enough- he doesn't seemed bothered. Also, when I sit on a chair, he paws his way up to my eye level, wrinkles his nose and the snapping at hands or whatever body part he can get. I say no! But he just intensifies. Is this normal ?


----------



## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Wrong thread!


----------



## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Yes, that's normal. I used to point my finger at Penny and give her a firm, no nonsense 'NO BITE' after which she would leap up and lunge at my finger, biting all the way.

Don't think of it as having to punish your puppy. He isn't doing anything wrong, he's just being a puppy. When you put him outside and he chews quietly, you are redirecting. That is, getting him to focus on something else. You can do this in the house with toys or by playing ball. When he gets too excited/bitey/out of control, give him a time out either outside with his toy or in his crate.

It's your job to call it quits to the game when he gets out of control. And it's your job to do it with patience, kindness and love; to teach him rather than punish him.


----------



## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

That's pretty cheeky, alright!!! But cute! I would have a hard time not laughing. :curtain:



kfayard said:


> I had to post this picture because I felt it was appropriate to share with you. I know what you are going through! You said yours will not stop jumping...well here is a NAUGHTY Cannon! I have never had that got up and stood on the table :bowl:!!! I had my phone in my hand and I just had to take a picture because I could not believe my eyes! Although...he has not done that since :. I was not a happy/proud momma! Just had to share the Naughty picture with you guys.


----------



## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

This post was meant for another thread!!  Not the this one! Oops!


----------



## Kinjal (Dec 26, 2011)

Thanks so much Penny's mum... I'm feeling a little better now. Thanks so much. You said something about bite inhibition. I have read large number of articles, but seeing you are all experienced owners, how did you all do this?


----------



## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

Is this punishment enough

It takes a little time for them to get it. As you build up the bond between you two (you become the FUN) and when the little one acts up by removing yourself from him all the fun (you) goes away. 
You really aren't about punishment here. You being the one of fun (you are the reward - food/play) over time he will figure out.... Hey if I do this my human doesn't play) and his little brain will start to turn. If I do this we have fun if I do this no fun.

During this process reward often for any good behavior. Lots of praise, toy time and treats for any good behavior.


----------



## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

Bite Inhibition.

When he bites. All fun stops. Since he is so little it may only be for 30 seconds then again resume play. If he is really over the top hyper just give him a time out with a bone or a kong. In the beginning if he keeps coming back to bite you will probably have to separate yourself from him with a gate/x-pen/crate/ moving to another room and ignore him but as he gets that when he bite (no play) you can just be a statue.

When he bites you can yelp and stop play. Some pups get more excited by the yelp so you might want to just say ouch and stop play. Over time he will get the no teeth on skin. After the yelp or ouch and being a statue you can offer a toy for him to chew.

You can also do this with feeding. Hold a piece of kibble in between your thumb and index finger if he grabs at it don't let him have it. If he takes it gently say yes and give the kibble. You can practice this about 10 times 3 or 4 times a day.
Here is a thread on the subject

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...105163-bite-inhibition-3-mo-old-gr-puppy.html


----------



## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

My first session with a dog trainer put things in perspective for me. She asked for a volunteer to sit in a chair in front of the class, she said "23" to the volunteer, nothing happened, so she said it again, "23", still nothing happened and she said it yet again, this time getting louder and then louder again. "23" meant nothing to the volunteer, you can't expect your puppy to know what "no" means, it's a baby, work on training sessions so that you can capture and shape the positive behaviors and redirect the negative. Good luck with your pup, if you put the time and effort in, you'll have your dream golden.


----------



## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

For me, the intensity of the bite is directly linked to the level of excitement. The more excited she was, the harder and more often she bit. And it was hard because just opening her eyes after a nap got her really excited. I was constantly trying to figure out what excited her, how to manage it. For instance, the loud yipping sound that is supposed to make them sorry they hurt you? well that just got her more excited. Looking back on it, I should have banned all toys with squeakers, they ratcheted her up too.

I also taught her "That's Enough". When she got too rowdy, I'd say "Thats Enough" and remove myself from the play. I'd take her out to go potty (she would go on command), we'd take a little walk around the yard and house and then in her crate for a nap. Penny will still play with the same excitement and energy but now WE control when and for how long. We say "that's enough" and she immediately quits and goes to do something else.

Mostly, you take one day at a time, one situation at a time and handle it the best you can. Eventually they mature a little, you get a little better at handling them and eventually they out grow it. Everybody survives, a little bruised, scarred a little but happy and wiser.

Penny will be 10 on Jan 3. We've had 9 years of the most wonderful, playful, controlable girl in our lives. Worth every minute of work put into her.


----------



## quilter (Sep 12, 2011)

Sounds familiar! My puppy is 4.5 months old, I can assure you it does get better. First I learned not to "mess with the puppy." Anything I did with my hands to try to stop the nipping only made it worse, because he thought it was all part of the game. So we learned "puppy management." We figured out the triggers - hungry, tired, bored, needed to potty. The potty one was really tough to figure out! 


A couple of other things helped. We don't play with the puppy's head and we don't rub his fur against the grain. Well, we do if we want to get him all excited and playful.  We also work on "easy" where we sit him in front of us and pet him slowly from head to tail. This calms him down pretty quickly. If not, it's off to the kitchen!


The last few days have been tough with our sons home from college. Too much excitement and we're trying to teach our sons how to handle the dog. They are eating all over the place and the puppy just learned how to jump and climb over stuff. (Food is a great motivator there.) At least the dog was exhausted today and has mostly slept.


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

If he has access to you, you need to have a toy or chew bone and constantly work to redirect him to that. If he can't be redirected with much genuine effort on your part, calmly put him in his crate or pen for a little down time. The trick is "calmly." If you get all agitated, it will likely ramp him up even more.

And patience. Lots of patience. You'll find you repeat this process 348 times before he starts to get it! Don't worry - that's normal!


----------



## Brittany_24 (Sep 4, 2011)

My Brody was a horrible biter! He finally grew out of it...only for the biting to come back again! Now at 6 months he has stopped again. So there is hope!


----------



## ozzy'smom (Jun 18, 2011)

Trust us, we've been there. My first Golden was not really mouthy so with Ozzy it took us a little by surprise. Honestly, my husband was convinced we had a very aggressive, "dominate" puppy. It was not a happy time around my house. A couple of things I did was I learned that for awhile I just couldn't get down on the floor with him. When I did he thought it was play time and he'd start to bite. I tried the yelping, redirecting, etc. and it didn't really help (though I guess after enough repetitions he is learning something). I would sometimes keep him tethered to a table and when he'd bite I'd say NO and get up and leave and then repeat. When he got really bad I'd put him in the bathroom to calm down. 

We also learned that evenings were Ozzy's witching hour. I think he was getting tired and had one last burst before bedtime. We started giving him frozen, stuffed Kongs at this time. It kept him busy, gave him something to chew on, and tired him out. 

For us things got better at about 4 months. He kept it up and still plays too rough at times but he'll now stop with a firm no (and then praise). I've watched him play with other dogs and he does the whole bitey face thing with them too and it's helped me to see that's just how he plays at this point. And when he plays with other young dogs they both do it. He and a golden pup were playing the other day and they both looked so vicious, but it was all in fun.

Hang in there. It WILL get better. Try a few things and see what works the best and stick with it but regardless it will likely get better with age.


----------



## Kinjal (Dec 26, 2011)

Thanks sooooo much for all the support. I feel I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. 

Now for some advice on how to brush and towel Gabbar without him biting at the brush and towel. But I guess that's also an adjustment over time activity.


----------



## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

When I had to towel Penny, I'd giver her a smaller, hand towel to hold in her mouth. She was happy and didn't grab at my towel anymore. If your pup is teething you can get a small towel wet and freeze it. Give him that when you're brushing. Take it away when you're done because it's easy for them to chew little pieces and swallow them...leading to another problem!



Kinjal said:


> Thanks sooooo much for all the support. I feel I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.
> 
> Now for some advice on how to brush and towel Gabbar without him biting at the brush and towel. But I guess that's also an adjustment over time activity.


----------



## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

It seems like Knightley was just going through this yesterday, and he still occasionally mouths in excitement at 5 months old (today!). We put him into his ex-pen when he got over excited as we didn't want him to get a bad association with his crate. It didn't seem to be making a difference, until I decided to use a marker word/phrase to signal that he had gone too far - my choice was "playtime over". As soon as his gentle mouthing turned hard, I would say in a unemotional voice "playtime over", pick him up, and carry him to his ex-pen. He learnt those words SO SO quickly, and came to realise what they meant. I found that helpful. 

The other thing that probably caused around a 70% improvement for us was to tether him to something solid, and play with him excitedly, giving him little treats if he is good. The *instant *he mouthed too hard I would do an about turn and walk away from him. Wait about 20 seconds, then go back to him, all forgiven, treats and praise. If there is hard mouthing again, you leave. It is up to you how much mouthing you allow. You should allow some, so that the pup learns to actually control his teeth, rather than trying to eliminate it entirely which isn't realistic or desirable as you want your dog to think it's ok to open his mouth for things like playing fetch!

For medium mouthing, have toys handy in all rooms the pup is allowed in and pop them in his mouth! Anything to distract him from a full blown crazy puppy episode. So try to catch your pup and distract him *before* he gets to that top level. Lots of exercise is important, freeze dried bones and kongs, and lots of training I found very good too. Above all, don't worry, it's all normal. My husband had never had a dog before and was angry/upset at my pups playing, which just made it so much worse. Keep calm and deal with it as best you can. It will get better!


----------



## Kinjal (Dec 26, 2011)

Brittany_24 said:


> My Brody was a horrible biter! He finally grew out of it...only for the biting to come back again! Now at 6 months he has stopped again. So there is hope!


What did you do Brittany during the worst time? Mine keeps lunging at me when I say no. I have to actually remove myself to stop the nipping. When he's being gentle I stroke him gently, praise him and loads of treats. I've just started this in the last 24 hours after reading all the advice I got in this thread. But I'm always eager to hear the success stories.


----------



## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

Ahh the devil dog look Lots of patience and redirecting and it gets better when they lose those sharp devil dog teeth ......trust me


----------



## Kinjal (Dec 26, 2011)

Wyatt's mommy said:


> Ahh the devil dog look Lots of patience and redirecting and it gets better when they lose those sharp devil dog teeth ......trust me


Yes devil dog look indeed, I was like " are you serious?!" when he goes mental with the nipping. The worst is when he climbs up humps my leg, I pull him off "no!" then the nipping starts. I try to remain very calm and either distract him with a toy or remove myself from the environment. I hope what I'm doing in correct and will better the situation.


----------



## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

Just keep in mind that he won't understand what "no" means at all, and in fact with some dogs, they think you are joining in the games by barking - ie saying no is the human version of barking. In order to teach a no, do something like I suggested with the tether, so that you can say no and walk away without your pup being able to follow you. That way 'no' will come to mean 'you are doing something unacceptable'! Without actually systematically teaching it you may as well be saying 'pumpkin' or 'sausage!'. Make sure you return to your pup when he is doing the right thing. If 'no' is exciting your pup, you may wish to choose a new word or phrase for this training.


----------



## Kinjal (Dec 26, 2011)

lyssa said:


> Just keep in mind that he won't understand what "no" means at all, and in fact with some dogs, they think you are joining in the games by barking - ie saying no is the human version of barking. In order to teach a no, do something like I suggested with the tether, so that you can say no and walk away without your pup being able to follow you. That way 'no' will come to mean 'you are doing something unacceptable'! Without actually systematically teaching it you may as well be saying 'pumpkin' or 'sausage!'. Make sure you return to your pup when he is doing the right thing. If 'no' is exciting your pup, you may wish to choose a new word or phrase for this training.


Thanks so much. Will persevere with the advice and keep you posted on how it all goes. Pray for me!


----------



## bioteach (Nov 13, 2010)

Yes, your pup is going through a stage that we all dislike. The fact that his teeth are razor sharp and GR's are mouthy makes matters worse. If he were a wild dog he'd receive corrections from his littermates and dam. (No, I wouldn't try to bite him back!).

I agree with the advice from the previous posts. Give praise for kisses and leave him when he bites. He'll need constant reminders because of the excitement that comes with his age, not because he isn't smart. 

He'll soon recognize your hands as the source of food and love - but he'll probably go through teething first (ouch!). 

Exercise, patience and consistency will win out in the end.


----------



## Kinjal (Dec 26, 2011)

Question: I met someone yesterday who had a Labrador and she said I should do a muzzle wrap when he bites. I just wanted your opinions, wouldn't it make it more excitable with biting?


----------



## mainegirl (May 2, 2005)

my reaction is NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!!
beth, moose and angel


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

No, do not muzzle wrap. It will likely just make him escalate his exited biting. Say ouch and remove your hand from him, actually put a toy in his mouth in place of skin and encourage him to play with the toy instead. You can also teach him to kiss, Put peanut butter on your hand and let him lick it off, say "good kiss" while he's licking. Practice that and the idea is to eventually tell him "Kiss" when he's biting and he will lick instead.


----------



## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

That definitely ratchets up the excitement and biting. In fact, it's how I play with Penny. Even at 10, it really get her playing mojo going! lol



Kinjal said:


> Question: I met someone yesterday who had a Labrador and she said I should do a muzzle wrap when he bites. I just wanted your opinions, wouldn't it make it more excitable with biting?


----------



## Kinjal (Dec 26, 2011)

I was so happy, I thought Gabbar was getting the no biting policy, till this morning! I was just walking around the garden (slowly) and then it all started, the biting at my clothes, the biting at my legs, I was too far away from the door to go in and so tried to distract him with a toy. Nothing worked, even ignoring didnt and boy did it hurt. The little needle pinches. So I picked him up calmly, walked to the door and said no and went in. We did this three times. The forth time he was not excited by my presence and was chewing a toy quietly. So it really does take ages for it to register. Sigh


----------



## vleffingwell (Jan 12, 2011)

My Abby is 5 months old and still chews softly on my hands but I looked at her teeth last night and she was just getting new adult teeth so I can imagine how that feels...!! Make sure since your pup is very small and young yet that you establish dominance. I like to take their food away when they are eating to show them who is boss. Recently I have to make Abby eat her food in a slow feeder since she is turning into a gobbler and my other two goldens are very slow. She had to learn to only eat hers and not help the other two!


----------



## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

Please do not try to "establish dominance" with your puppy. It's an outdated theory; your goal is to have a loving and respectful relationship with your dog. Puppyhood can be very trying, but all of the advice you have been given about time outs, substituting a toy for a body part, etc. will eventually work. Hang in there....you will look back on this time someday and realize it was very fleeting


----------



## Kinjal (Dec 26, 2011)

So I should just continue with the bite on me I say no bite and go inside for few minutes routine?


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Kinjal said:


> So I should just continue with the bite on me I say no bite and go inside for few minutes routine?


Choose one option that seems to be the most effective and use it consistently. It will eventually pay off, puppy just needs to learn and get a little older.


----------



## Kinjal (Dec 26, 2011)

Puppy had a play date yesterday that he enjoyed. It's been 24 hours since and he hasn't nipped me once? How come, not to say he won't tommorow. But am quite amazed ....


----------



## abowman (Jan 5, 2012)

Finnegan is 7 months and does the wrinkley snarl face before being naughty. He tries to use my hand as a chew toy and it is usually handled by offering a true chew toy. Around 12 weeks we noticed he would chase us to chew feet , it did not last long. I remember thinking I choose an alpha male here we go!


----------



## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

Getting play dates gives him an outlet for those behaviours and also teaches him good manners. It's a great thing to do, so introduce your pup to as many other puppies and full grown dogs as possible. That alone will help the behaviour diminish.


----------



## Kinjal (Dec 26, 2011)

I definitely will Lyssa. After the slight improvement I have noticed (he play bit my leg this morning for a few seconds, I had to remove myself for a few minutes to let him calm down). It's a must I guess for all with mouthy pups.


----------



## abowman (Jan 5, 2012)

I found that creating a hand signal worked better for Finnegan along with "no". Our hand signal was a sharp/abrupt palm up above the head. I have a friend who has a police dog and he suggested this, after about a week it started to work. It is what I do now when I notice that "no" is not being heard. I think "no" is like a mother nagging it is just ignored. My kids did it to me all the time.


----------



## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

The reason don't like the word "no" is because it doesn't teach or give direction. I prefer a command that directs to 'this' not 'that'. "No" just doesn't mean much....you could just as easily be saying 'car' or 'green'...puppy doesn't know the word. We use it because WE know what we want.

I would rather say "Puppy, sit" or "Puppy, down" and have treats ready to reinforce and reward. Gives the puppy something positive to do. Saying "no" doesn't give them anything else to do.


----------



## mom2four (Jan 7, 2012)

*13 week old nipper*

Finally joined this post. We brought home our golden puppy at 8 weeks to our family with 3 young kids - ages 4, 6 and 9. This is my first puppy training experience. I have read tons of books/seen DVDs. She is 13 weeks tomorrow and still nipping and having house training accidents. 

She has had two private training sessions with a professional mostly about taking walks, and she learned "down" the next one will be with another golden puppy a few weeks older. I am trying to get her into a puppy class. We are in Germany and haven't had any luck over the holiday break that is very long here! LOL. She has had a couple of dog playdates and done fine. I thought they'd do a better job teaching her to stop nipping than I do. It is very tiring constantly rescuing the kids from her. She mostly stays crated/corralled in the kitchen. The breeder had a temperament tester deem her as a good fit for a family and so part of me wonders if she is going to outgrow this nipping or am I in fact going to manage to ruin her? the books say that we have to stop the nipping asap. well I feel like I am trying everything to no avail. I do think its in fun, but what if she doesn't stop it and then "in fun" actually hurts one of us seriously? She has already caused a few of us to need bandaids from her little sharp puppy teeth! 

I just want to be assured she is going to outgrow this. But if it sounds like she/we are on the wrong track, please let me know your ideas. The breeder also said her good temperament also depends on her getting enough rest. I do play with her, walk her 1-2 times a day and do short training sessions. I feel like other than that she is being ignored. Please tell me I am being silly. we are a homeschool family and so she hears us all day long. We also moved our homeschool materials upstairs so she would hear/see us and also for me to more easily get her outside for housetraining. Do any of you know how much golden puppies need to sleep? Is it like a newborn - wake up, eat, potty, play or train a bit, and sleep again? Like within an hour sleeping again? I am all for that if it is in fact that she is getting overstimulated and that is what is causing the nipping. We have hired a puppy sitter as well when we're out a long time to keep up the potty training, but the couple of times that we have left her for 2-3 hours, she hasn't had any accidents at all. I wonder if she is actually sleeping harder since we are not here making all our noise. (though I keep the TV on for some noise for her) 

anyway thanks for reading and any encouragement! reading the other comments here has already helped. I just like to be reassured!


----------



## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

mom2four, well there will be a lot of improvement as your pup grows up and matures. But at the same time there is a lot you can do. Make sure your kids don't run or move quickly around your pup, dogs are predators after all, and in the wild this is the age wolves play with each other in order to learn some of the hunting and chase techniques. Running and moving fast will definitely trigger nipping. Try to get them to always move really slooowww around her. I really truly do suggest the tether technique I mentioned earlier in this thread, I've written a longer blog post on it here explaining it in more detail if you are interested. The idea is not to stop your dog mouthing you, but to stop her causing you pain. I play with my 5 month old (who now has much blunter adult teeth) with my hands fully inside his mouth and he loves it. The second he causes pain, it stops. So bite inhibition training is an ongoing process, and yes, nipping does need to be controlled because they do need to completely internalise that human skin is both delicate and out of bounds for anything more than gentle mouthing - important if your dog was in pain and lashed out without thinking.

The other thing you mentioned is house training. My pup is hopefully going to be a assistance (service) dog for me, so from the beginning I knew he would have to do his business on command. He would have had less than 10 accidents since we got him at 8 weeks old, and now goes on command - a different one for no1 and no2. If you would like to read how I did it, I have put my training schedule online on my blog once again right here. Be aware that an asleep dog can last twice as long as an awake dog, and a playing dog lasts half as long or even less than a normal awake dog. The more often you take your pup out the less likely it is to do its business inside and the more you will break that pattern. Make some simple chicken broth with a chicken carcass and give it to your pup diluted, if she is past its 'every 45 minutes' stage. Look at my blog for the other details.

Pups do sleep a lot, but this also is the time for bonding. You need to spend a fair bit of time with her, but if she looks sleepy, then she should sleep. I found Knightley tended to go from 100% to 0% at that age. It's only now he is getting some reasonable stamina. Make sure she is getting lots of mental stimulation though, she could be starting the nipping because she is bored and it is her way of getting attention... being shut up in the kitchen area for a good deal of the day sounds a touch boring, although the walks are good. I would increase the training sessions, learning new commands is very tiring, but it would be a good tired. Tether her to you whenever you can, so she can be with you, and you can watch for signs that she needs to go out.

There's some music you may or may not have heard of for calming dogs, called Through a Dogs Ear. It is classical music specially arranged for dogs to keep them calm and often sends them to sleep. It is great to put on when your dog is very hyper and going a bit mad. It does actually work on Knightley - it even works on me! You can buy the CDs online, there is even one for the car which is meant to work on the dog but not the person - the rest carry human sleepiness warnings...!

Anyway, I've written way too much. Try to stay calm and relaxed around your puppy, she will respond in turn if you are uptight. Things will improve of their own accord, but the more you do to help them, the better. Just be patient and your little girl will grow up so amazingly fast it is unbelievable. Good luck!


----------



## Kinjal (Dec 26, 2011)

Mom2four- I'm having the same issues with biting. It hurts! Especially when I turn away to walk to the door... Nasty stings to the legs. I'm also following the advice ( a mix of what people gave here). My pup is going to be 13 weeks and he is still having his moments. Keep us posted on how it's going for you. My little one tends to have leg and toy humping moments as well. We discourage that my saying no and pulling him off us. I guess when he gets fixed it will calm down a tad.


----------



## mom2four (Jan 7, 2012)

Thank you both! I will check out those links. I have thought of the boring kitchen too. We let her out into the dining room/living room and thankfully have a door before the house leads to the rest of the house, but then we start up with the nipping the kids who are jumping all over the furniture. So.....staying on top of the different games we can play with her to keep her from those games is the tricky part.


----------



## coffenut (Jan 3, 2012)

If you haven't read it yet, I highly recommend a book by the Monks of New Skete called "The Art of Raising a Puppy" 



 . Although they specialize in German Shepherds, the book really explains how puppies think and process and how to learn how to communicate with them. It saved my sanity many years ago. I believe they have a revised edition from the version that I originally read.


----------



## darbysdad (Dec 23, 2011)

That is perfectly normal and is the dogs way of trying to achieve the "alpha position in the household. Same thing in the wild. After tiring her out with plenty of playtime and she starts to bite, grab her by the scruff of the neck gently shaking her and pinning her to the ground. The whole time you should be making a loud snarling sound. Hold her in the pinned position for about 10 seconds till she relaxes her body and then allow her up with praise. This is where the role of submissive behavior is taught and also aids in the socialization skills needed when around other dogs.This method is surefire and is the way that the mother deals with overly aggressive play in the wild. This is a behavior that you need to "nip"  in the butt now while it is still easily teachable. We have already done this with Darby and it works wonders. Do an internet search on the subject and it explains it in great detail. You go Alpha Dog!!!!!


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

darbysdad said:


> That is perfectly normal and is the dogs way of trying to achieve the "alpha position in the household. Same thing in the wild. After tiring her out with plenty of playtime and she starts to bite, grab her by the scruff of the neck gently shaking her and pinning her to the ground. The whole time you should be making a loud snarling sound. Hold her in the pinned position for about 10 seconds till she relaxes her body and then allow her up with praise. This is where the role of submissive behavior is taught and also aids in the socialization skills needed when around other dogs.This method is surefire and is the way that the mother deals with overly aggressive play in the wild. This is a behavior that you need to "nip"  in the butt now while it is still easily teachable. We have already done this with Darby and it works wonders. Do an internet search on the subject and it explains it in great detail. You go Alpha Dog!!!!!


OMG, do NOT do this to your puppy, you will only teach her to be afraid of you. This is a load of outdated bull that will backfire. There are too many positive methods that do work and create loving bond with your dog, there is no reason to traumatize your puppy with harsh methods that have been proven wrong.


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Kinjal said:


> Puppy had a play date yesterday that he enjoyed. It's been 24 hours since and he hasn't nipped me once? How come, not to say he won't tommorow. But am quite amazed ....


A tired puppy is a better behaved puppy. He apparently needs more exercise!


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

mom2four said:


> Finally joined this post. We brought home our golden puppy at 8 weeks to our family with 3 young kids - ages 4, 6 and 9. This is my first puppy training experience. I have read tons of books/seen DVDs. She is 13 weeks tomorrow and still nipping and having house training accidents.
> 
> She has had two private training sessions with a professional mostly about taking walks, and she learned "down" the next one will be with another golden puppy a few weeks older. I am trying to get her into a puppy class. We are in Germany and haven't had any luck over the holiday break that is very long here! LOL. She has had a couple of dog playdates and done fine. I thought they'd do a better job teaching her to stop nipping than I do. It is very tiring constantly rescuing the kids from her. She mostly stays crated/corralled in the kitchen. The breeder had a temperament tester deem her as a good fit for a family and so part of me wonders if she is going to outgrow this nipping or am I in fact going to manage to ruin her? the books say that we have to stop the nipping asap. well I feel like I am trying everything to no avail. I do think its in fun, but what if she doesn't stop it and then "in fun" actually hurts one of us seriously? She has already caused a few of us to need bandaids from her little sharp puppy teeth!
> 
> ...


She will outgrow this, but you do need to work with her to redirect her to appropriate toys and give her enough exercise. 

You are correct that it is like a newborn, wake up, eat, potty, play, train, sleep, repeat over and over. 

You won't ruin her, just be patient and find methods that work for her. Structure is good right now, being restricted to safe areas is good for her until she is a little more mature.


----------



## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

darbysdad said:


> This method is surefire and is the way that the mother deals with overly aggressive play in the wild.


Actually, a mother dog is very gentle with her pups, and will very gently hold the muzzle of the pup in her mouth to interrupt overly rough play for a short time before letting the pup return to play. Whilst it is short and gentle, the pup still gets the message just fine.

There is no need to shake a little puppy, pin the pup to the ground, snarling and growling and growling at it. It teaches the pup nothing but to fear humans for a display of aggression, and as for teaching a pup to interact with other dogs?! That's crazy. This dominance/submissive theory is extremely outdated in the true dog behaviourist world, so do some reading. 

Those of you with puppies - don't do that!


----------



## darbysdad (Dec 23, 2011)

lyssa said:


> Actually, a mother dog is very gentle with her pups, and will very gently hold the muzzle of the pup in her mouth to interrupt overly rough play for a short time before letting the pup return to play. Whilst it is short and gentle, the pup still gets the message just fine.
> 
> There is no need to shake a little puppy, pin the pup to the ground, snarling and growling and growling at it. It teaches the pup nothing but to fear humans for a display of aggression, and as for teaching a pup to interact with other dogs?! That's crazy. This dominance/submissive theory is extremely outdated in the true dog behaviourist world, so do some reading.
> 
> Those of you with puppies - don't do that!


I think you have concieved this as something rough and it's just the opposite. It is done gently and does work. Our first dog was taught the same way and it never bit or snapped anyone in 14 years. I was able to play wrestle with her while she did nothing more than mouth my hand. I didn't design this trick, nature did and it's a proven method when done kindly and gently. Professional trainers use this technique to curb biting when simple "no" commands are not working. This is better than wrapping your hand around a dog's muzzle because the human hand is not seen. Again there is plenty of info on this. Sorry you took it the wrong way.....


----------



## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

Darbysdad wrote:"Again there is plenty of info on this.

she starts to bite, grab her by the scruff of the neck gently shaking her and pinning her to the ground. The whole time you should be making a loud snarling sound. Hold her in the pinned position for about 10 seconds till she relaxes her body and then allow her up with praise."

Could you please provide possibly peer reviewed scientific links or scientific articles on the information.


----------



## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

I'm not an expert and don't claim to be, but I can tell you that I've never once grabbed Max by the scruff of his neck and pinned him to the ground, and I can wrestle with him all day and he will NEVER put his teeth on me, nor would he ever put teeth on my husband, who plays a great deal more roughly than I do.

And I did notice the comment about the kids jumping on the furniture and the puppy nipping - puppy sees them as other puppies. I used to tell my grandchildren, "if you act like a wild animal, so will he." Kids need to be calm around the puppy, and puppy will be calm around the kids.


----------



## darbysdad (Dec 23, 2011)

solinvictus said:


> Darbysdad wrote:"Again there is plenty of info on this.
> 
> she starts to bite, grab her by the scruff of the neck gently shaking her and pinning her to the ground. The whole time you should be making a loud snarling sound. Hold her in the pinned position for about 10 seconds till she relaxes her body and then allow her up with praise."
> 
> Could you please provide possibly peer reviewed scientific links or scientific articles on the information.


I have read plenty on this subject and will forward you the info if you would like. This has always worked for me on the younger pups and I only did it once with Darby. Problem solved. I believe that you should do what works for you. I definately would never shake a can of coins to intentionally scare my dog into fear over loud noises. Neither would I spray water into my dogs face or wrap their muzzle with my human hand. These are methods that are quite popular for curbing biting, but I wouldn't do it. Too much "human hand contact". As far as "old style thinking", the only change is in the human aspect of understanding. The canine world has not changed in a million years. Like I said previously, it was taken out of context and should only be used when the biting is extreme and the pup is over excited.
Best regards


----------



## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

darbysdad - If you thought I was saying a way to discipline a puppy for biting was to hold its muzzle shut, then you were very wrong. I only was correcting you in that mother dogs do not pin puppies whilst snarling, the mother only holds the puppies muzzle for half a second, or a bit longer.






Like this, when one of the little adorable babies is bothering the mother dog at 1:12, and she reaches out and puts her mouth around its muzzle (head??!). However, this is dog to dog communication. As are things like alpha rolls. This video is actually great to watch, the mother dog is teaching her pups manners gently throughout the whole session.

I think humans can find much much better ways to communicate with our dogs than pinning, alpha rolling and muzzle shutting. I used to be more 'traditionally minded'.... not pinning my dog or anything like that, but using choke chains and all. But with my new puppy I have been using all positive reinforcement, and clicker training all the way and its a truly amazing way to go. 

Seriously, you may think whatever works is fine, but there are _better_ options of communicating with your dog. Why not do some reading and leave the old and debunked world behind?


----------



## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

darbysdad said:


> That is perfectly normal and is the dogs way of trying to achieve the "alpha position in the household.


I might be in the minority when I say I can't stand the word "alpha". I was so glad when I read this article in WDJ:

De-Bunking the "Alpha Dog" Theory - Whole Dog Journal Article


----------



## darbysdad (Dec 23, 2011)

*Taken from a working dog training kennel.......*
*Dog trainers have sat for hours watching the behavior of litters of puppies and how their dam deals with misbehavior. As the puppies grow and begin to explore, the mother dog begins to use a little more discipline. Her puppies have teeth now and are using them to chew up everything, including their mom. *
*When puppies are two to three weeks old, the mother dog is perfectly willing to lie down so that her puppies can suckle. At four to five weeks old, the mother dog is beginning to dry up, there is not as much milk available, and the puppies now have sets of teeth. When the puppies begin to suckle, they realize that the milk isn't coming quite as quickly as it had been. They begin to tug on their mother's teats, tugging into her delicate skin with needle sharp puppy teeth. *
*The mother dog immediately stands up and takes the dinner away. The next time the puppy suckles he will be a bit more careful about pulling the teat as he knows that if he bites, dinner leaves. Sometimes a puppy is determined to get more dinner. 
*
*He will follow the mother dog while she is walking and jump to catch her teat, again with his needle sharp teeth. This is a bit more than the mother dog can stand. Turning quickly, she grabs the puppy by the muzzle and growls. The puppy immediately goes belly up, “sorry mom .. sorry, mom .. won't do it again.” *
*Disciplining a dog does not have to be a brutal act of smacking the dog or by "stringing it up" by the collar. Sometimes all that is needed is to play mother dog. Grab the dog by the skin and hair on the neck behind its ears. Softly shake the dog and say "Enough" in a gutteral voice. 
*
*This action mimics a mother dog "scruffing" a puppy by grabbing the puppy by the scruff of the neck and growling a warning.
*
*So, what does this behavior have to do with dog training? By mimicking pack behavior, by emulating the actions of a mother dog, we as humans can become effective, better trainers. When you have a biting dog, or a puppy that bites, if you copy a mother dog's action, you can cure the bad habit of biting before the dog needs to be euthanized for biting a child*

*A great article on the Alpha Factor and how puppies learn proper socialization....Dog Owner's Guide: The alpha factor*

*I never intended to imply anything. I'm just stating that I believe at a specific age and at a specific time, this can be a great loving way to curb an overly aggressive biter. I definately didn't mean to imply for it to be used for normal everyday biting, but only when it get's out of hand. *
*PS. No I didn't believe in "timeout's" raising my children either. A tap on the butt at the right time worked well..*


----------



## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Check the dates on all the books listed in that article...we've learned a lot since then...


----------



## darbysdad (Dec 23, 2011)

kwhit said:


> Check the dates on all the books listed in that article...we've learned a lot since then...


The bible is an old book too but I find the info. still stands. I will ask the mod to remove my threads...


----------



## Kinjal (Dec 26, 2011)

Wow, that Australian cattle dog video was beautiful. It's soo sweet.
Darbysdad- there's no need to remove your threads, it's an open discussion. 
Thanks all for your input. Let's see how Gabbar goes, I must say he still play bites legs, but the frequency is getting less.


----------



## Kinjal (Dec 26, 2011)

However, now to make Gabbar calm the humping down. Anything soft - bed, towel, sometimes me (but I stop him there).... It's Embarassing And a bit much, he's just over 3 months for goodness sake!


----------



## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

Thanks for the link Darbysdad. 

I do believe that the science of dog training has come far in the last 30 or so years.

Here is an article about a study done in 2007.

It mentions that staring, growling and pinning the dog can escalate violence and can cause the bond between the owner and the dog to break down.

Traditional methods have worked in the past for some dogs. They have found for other dogs that it does either shut them down (losing the trust) and for others as above escalating the violence.

For todays owners I do believe it is better to offer the newer training methods. Yes a owner can make mistakes with the newer as well as the older methods but there is less fall out if the mistake is made with the newer methods.

article one.
http://vet.osu.edu/assets/pdf/hospital/behavior/trainingArticle.pdf

While the use of confrontational training methods to
subdue hypothetical dominance is commonplace, the
current scientific literature suggests, instead, that canine
aggression and other behavior problems are not a result of
dominant behavior or lack of the owner’s ‘‘alpha’’ status,
but rather a result of fear (self-defense) or underlying
anxiety problems, important for an understanding of the
motivation and treatment of aggression (Guy et al.,
2001a,b; Mertens, 2002; Luescher and Reisner, 2008).

In conclusion, confrontational or aversive behavioral
interventions applied by dog owners before their pets were
presented for a behavior consultation were associated with
aggressive responses in many cases. Owners of dogs
aggressive to family members are especially at risk for
injury—and their pets at risk of relinquishment or euthanasia—
when certain aversive methods are used. Ultimately,
reward-based training is less stressful or painful for the dog,
and, hence, safer for the owner. It is important for primary
care veterinarians to advise owners about risks associated
with aversive training methods, despite their prevalence in
the popular media, and to provide resources for safe and
effective management of behavior problems.

article two. based on the same study

Dog Science News 

*2) Survey of the Use and Outcome of Confrontational and Non-Confrontational Training Methods in Client-Owned Dogs Showing Undesired Behaviors. 2009. Authors: Meghan E. Herron, Frances S. Shofer, & Ilana R. Reisner. Applied Animal Behaviour Science, 117: 47-54.* This study looks at confrontational training and behavioral modification methods used by people to curb undesirable behaviors (e.g., separation anxiety, aggression, fear and anxiety, barking, etc.) in their dogs. Unfortunately, some of these methods are popularized on television shows and recommended by "dog trainers" will little to no education in the science of how animals learn.​*Major finds:*

Some of the methods used by owners that caused their dogs to respond aggressively included:


<LI class=bodyText>the "_alpha roll_" where the dog is rolled on his back and held down <LI class=bodyText>_forcing a dog to release an item in his/her mouth_. With this technique the owner or trainer applies pressure to the dog's gums with her fingers to release an object in the dog's mouth. <LI class=bodyText>a _dominance down_ where the dog is held down on his/her side <LI class="bodyText style42">grabbing the jowls or the scruff 
the _stare down_ where the dog is stared at until he/she looks away



According to a new veterinary study published in The Journal of Applied Animal Behavior (2009), if you’re aggressive to your dog, your dog will be aggressive, too.
Says Meghan Herron, DVM, lead author of the study, "Nationwide, the number-one reason why dog owners take their dog to a vete...rinary behaviorist is to manage aggressive behavior. Our study demonstrated that many confrontational training methods, whether staring down dogs, striking them, or intimidating them with physical manipulation, do little to correct improper behavior and can elicit aggressive responses."

Indeed, the use of such confrontational training techniques can provoke fear in the dog and lead to defensively aggressive behavior toward the person administering the aversive action.

For the study, Herron, Frances S. Shofer and Ilana R. Reisner, veterinarians with the Department of Clinical Studies at University of Pennsylvania, School of Veterinary Medicine, produced a 30-item survey for dog owners who made behavioral service appointments at Penn Vet. In the questionnaire, dog owners were asked how they had previously treated aggressive behavior, whether there was a positive, negative or neutral effect on the dogs’ behavior, and whether aggressive responses resulted from the method they used. Owners were also asked where they learned of the training technique they employed. 140 surveys were completed.

Some Techniques Triggered Aggression
The highest frequency of aggression occurred in response to aversive (or punishing) interventions, even when the intervention was indirect:
• Hitting or kicking the dog (41% of owners reported aggression) 
• Growling at the dog (41%) 
• Forcing the dog to release an item from its mouth (38%) 
• "Alpha roll" (forcing the dog onto its back and holding it down) (31%) 
• "Dominance down" (forcing the dog onto its side) (29%) 
• Grabbing the jowls or scruff (26%) 
• Staring the dog down (staring at the dog until it looks away) (30%) 
• Spraying the dog with water pistol or spray bottle (20%) 
• Yelling "no" (15%) 
• Forced exposure (forcibly exposing the dog to a stimulus – such as tile floors, noise or people – that frightens the dog) (12%) In contrast, non-aversive methods resulted in much lower frequency of aggressive responses: 

• Training the dog to sit for everything it wants (only 2% of owners reported aggression) 
• Rewarding the dog for eye contact (2%) 
• Food exchange for an item in its mouth instead of forcing the item out (6%) 
• Rewarding the dog for "watch me" (0%)

According to todays animal applied behavior science the professionals believe dogs/pups understand that we are not the same species. They have now found by studying the wolves that wolves in the wild are a family unit and from the past studys the wolves were not in family units. They were taking adult wolves that had no bond at all and placing them in a group. This caused stress and the wolves did not act in their family unit setting. So much of the information from those past studies have been found to be inaccurate.


----------



## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

Thanks a lot for posting that article solinvictus. It says what many of us know, but cold hard figures from researchers may sway some out there who are firmly convinced a dog should not have a positive life, and needs to have a strong boss to keep them submissive.

Meanwhile my 5 month old puppy is already joyfully closing cupboard doors with his paw, thanks to the thrills of clicker training. I can't think of a philosophy and school of ideas I would rather follow. My dog loves me for my choice, I am sure. I just have to look at his pleased grin, and frantic wag when he finally figures out what I want in our new game. Closing a cupboard door is just a new wonderful game I have thought up for him! Just nobody tell him it isn't playing, it's actually meant to be training!  The bond positive reinforcement training fosters is very exciting, compared to what I experienced with my previous dog. I am simply honored to be sharing this life with my Knightley pup!


----------



## Kinjal (Dec 26, 2011)

So yelling no has adverse effects? Wow, that may explain the bark back And nipping that follows when I yelled no to Gabbar yesterday. Good to know, will calm myself.


----------



## Kinjal (Dec 26, 2011)

Question to all: Gabbar seems to be getting a little better, although every couple of days will suddenly have a go at my legs in the garden, nipping or holding my leg in his mouth. When this happens I say sit a few times firmly, hold a treat up and he eventually sits and looks up at me. After a few seconds I give him the treat if he's sitting calmly. I'm wondering if this is teaching him to bite? As he gets a treat once he sits quietly after a biting episode?


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I think he will associate the sitting quietly with getting the treat since it's the last thing he did before he got the treat. Puppies are very "in the moment".


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Kinjal said:


> So yelling no has adverse effects? Wow, that may explain the bark back And nipping that follows when I yelled no to Gabbar yesterday. Good to know, will calm myself.


I had to chuckle, you have a sassy puppy, he was "talking back" when you reprimanded him. One day that will be a memory you laugh at .


----------



## Yuki (Oct 5, 2011)

mylissyk said:


> I had to chuckle, you have a sassy puppy, he was "talking back" when you reprimanded him. One day that will be a memory you laugh at .


lol...that reminds me, my Saya used to talk back if you yelled or scolded her. it always makes me laugh when i remember it.


----------



## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

"Question to all: Gabbar seems to be getting a little better, although every couple of days will suddenly have a go at my legs in the garden, nipping or holding my leg in his mouth. When this happens I say sit a few times firmly, hold a treat up and he eventually sits and looks up at me. After a few seconds I give him the treat if he's sitting calmly. I'm wondering if this is teaching him to bite? As he gets a treat once he sits quietly after a biting episode?"

It takes a long time for many pups to stop the excited mouthing, nipping and jumping. These are natural for the dog. So, you will have lots of good days where you think by gosh he has it and then he turns around and reverts back to doing what is natural. Just stay consistent and you two will work through this. 

You are not teaching him to bite. He is getting rewarded for the last thing he does which is sit calmly. 
What I would suggest though is to work on that sit separately. 
It is important that you only ask once. That the reward (treat) does not come out until the pup has followed through and is sitting. In the very beginning luring is alright to actually get the dog into the position you want. But after that you want the dog to understand the command and not be focused on the food itself. 

And yes yelling no can cause problems. Many dogs have been yelled at without major fallout but since study and science have found that some dogs do have fallout because of it why risk it?


----------



## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

Kinjal said:


> Question to all: Gabbar seems to be getting a little better, although every couple of days will suddenly have a go at my legs in the garden, nipping or holding my leg in his mouth. When this happens I say sit a few times firmly, hold a treat up and he eventually sits and looks up at me. After a few seconds I give him the treat if he's sitting calmly. I'm wondering if this is teaching him to bite? As he gets a treat once he sits quietly after a biting episode?


What you are describing is something called a 'behaviour chain'. Behaviour chains can be good things, like if I come and then sit in front of my person, I get a treat... or they can be a bit negative.... if I bite/jump up and then sit nicely, then I get a treat. Puppies rarely make the mental leap of the latter type, although some wily older dogs do. Even then it is rare. If you make sure he sits there calmly for a good couple of seconds there should be no association. Dogs carry associations for rewards for about 2 seconds, the magic window for a positive trainer. Reward outside that window and the usefulness is drastically lessened. For something like a sit stay, which is what in effect you are doing, ask for it for a couple of seconds, then reward. Because its a duration behaviour you don't need to worry about that window to get the treat in fast, just be aware that you must *at least* count 1thousand 2thousand in your head before you reward him! It's the opposite of fast treating really - you're waiting to memory of biting fades.

Unless you have an absolutely incredibly bright puppy on your hands, it will work fine. Make sure you also give treats when he's just being good, especially for gentle mouth contact eg licking. You want to reward what he is doing right, as well as reward stopping.


----------



## Kinjal (Dec 26, 2011)

Oh man, Gabbar at his biting worse today 
He constantly pant and leg grabbed me and nipped my hands. Tried sit, tried down, walking away was painful. Bites And nips of the back of legs when I walked away. 3 months and almost 2 weeks old, I think I need to do a time out in a crate or something. He's really not getting it!


----------



## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Kinjal said:


> Oh man, Gabbar at his biting worse today
> He constantly pant and leg grabbed me and nipped my hands. Tried sit, tried down, walking away was painful. Bites And nips of the back of legs when I walked away. 3 months and almost 2 weeks old, I think I need to do a time out in a crate or something. He's really not getting it!


I do apologize - I have not read your entire thread. But as the owner of a puppy who was a crazy mouthy biter, I can sympathize. Have you tried substituing a stuffed toy for your hand, pantleg, etc etc?

From the day I brought home my puppy, and she ripped my hands to shreds, I would only go to pat her with a stuffy in my hand. When she bit, I would say aa-aah (that's so hard to write, but I hope you know what sound I mean), and I would say "get a toy!" and put the toy in her mouth, and say "good toy!!" Pretty quickly, with many stuffed toys available to her, if she came over to me, I could say, "get a toy!" and she would know there would be no pats or play unless she had that toy in her mouth. At first, when I'd say "get a toy" I would have to get it for her - but because she was so mouthy, she was alweays happy to take it. And then, I would throw a party! Huge love and pats. She very quickly learned that carrying a toy with her produced huge love - and her mouth would be occupied.

To this day, when my no 11-year-old gets super excitred, she mouths (of course, a soft adult mouth is nothing like sharp puppy teeth) and I still say, "get a toy for that mouth." And she does. 

It takes a lot of consistency, but it does work. Hang in there. The mouthiness can be so hard. Stock up on stuffed animals (small enough for your pup to hold onto). My dog especially liked the floopy kind, rather than the more solid ones.


----------



## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

There is nothing wrong with some time out, but don't treat it like a punishment, just treat it like a time for the pup to calm down and rest. You don't want your puppy to start associating the crate with negative times.

As for following you when you walk away - have you been doing the tethering thing like I suggested? Hook your pup to something solid so that you can walk away and make your point. Painful nipping = I go and leave you = fun over. Then go back and play with your pup again, until there is another nip, then immediately walk away again. Make the point even more sharply by giving your pup some treats so long as he keeps his teeth to himself. Then treats AND you go byebye when you leave. It worked *wonders* for my puppy within only a couple of sessions.


----------



## Kinjal (Dec 26, 2011)

lyssa said:


> There is nothing wrong with some time out, but don't treat it like a punishment, just treat it like a time for the pup to calm down and rest. You don't want your puppy to start associating the crate with negative times.
> 
> As for following you when you walk away - have you been doing the tethering thing like I suggested? Hook your pup to something solid so that you can walk away and make your point. Painful nipping = I go and leave you = fun over. Then go back and play with your pup again, until there is another nip, then immediately walk away again. Make the point even more sharply by giving your pup some treats so long as he keeps his teeth to himself. Then treats AND you go byebye when you leave. It worked *wonders* for my puppy within only a couple of sessions.


Okay, so I started this tethering- walk away this morning. I had to move away a couple of times, but on the third time he way just licking and snuggling. So I untied him and he way much better for a couple of hours after this exercise. Then I had to get ready and leave to work. So will try again this evening when I get home. Fingers crossed. I think Gabbar got real nippy over the weekend, especially with my niece and nephew who came over for dinner on saturday. They were standing still, but he was sooo excited that he started to lunge nip at them, so I told them to go inside and let him be alone with his kong filled treat. I guess its work in progress. lets see if he will learn with this tether technique.


----------



## Capt Jack (Dec 29, 2011)

You have to be the boss.Jack is an alpha male & we had a few bad fights over who was "pack leader"but like a child if you don't control you will be the controled.The final shot was when Jack went after my daughter when she tried to pet him when he was chewing a busy bone.After we got that straight I can take any treat from him & give it back without even a growl.Stand between him & the treat & let him know it's yours & you are letting him have it.By the way I'm not a pro just a happy Golden lover


----------



## GermanShehperdLover25 (Jun 5, 2016)

*''Ouch''*

I had a similar problem with my 5 week old puppy. He did not bight me but bit my sisters. I used the ''Ouch'' method. When he bights yell ''Ouch'' but be careful sometimes that just encourages them to bight harder.Make sure not to discipline your puppy. Then thy will only listen to who can discipline.


----------

