# Loss of Muscle on top of Head - Ideas?



## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

Sounds like you have an issue that may be beyond your veterinarian's scope of expertise. Do you have a vet school within driving distance? If so, ask your vet for a referral to the vet school so that you can consult with a specialist. 

I hope it's nothing major!


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## Booker (Nov 14, 2006)

Definetly sounds like a specialist is needed here...

Welcome to the forum!


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

I agree, a vet medical school is the way to go when you run into these kinds of problems. If you are lucky, the department head of the applicable specialty will pop in for a consultation.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

If you have any before and after pictures please post them as they might prove helpful. Welcome to the forum... LauraEyes would probably be your best bet at offering some possibilities of causes and/or offer some suggestions on what other steps you might take next in trying to get a more satisfying diagnosis. She's often pretty thorough in her responses. But it might take a day or two as she just 'pops' in and out, so you need to keep this thread 'on top'. Good Luck... if I have some spare time tonight I will try an internet search and let you know if I come up with anything that might prove helpful.


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## jeffreyzone (Feb 8, 2006)

Does Tella still have feeling in the area where the muscle has degenerated? It would be great if you could post a photo of her. Are you located near a university veterinary school or a large city?

Poor girl. I'm glad you brought her question to the forum. Welcome.


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## Brokejumper (Jan 16, 2007)

Thanks so much to everyone... I will try and get pictures up as soon as possible.


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## Brokejumper (Jan 16, 2007)

*Before and After Pictures*

Here are three pictures from the past two years. I tried to make sure they were close to the same lighting and pose for best effect. I imagine many of you might sympathize with the amount of photos I had to go through!

The last picture doesn't quite do it justice if you don't already see it. As a guide to photo number three the shadow there is not playing tricks on the depression. It actually is that bad. Also, if you you didn't know to look the orbital bone coming back from her eye socket actually is protruding that much and is not just her fur.

Hope these help....

Pic 1 - November 2005









Pic 2 - October 2006









Pic 3 - January 2007


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

There is a disease I have heard of ocurring in Goldens called Masticatory Myositis

Dr. Vidt's Website - Health Issues

and

Veterinary Q & A: Caring for Geriatric Dogs

"Muscle atrophy - Mild loss of muscle mass, especially the hind legs, may be seen with old age. Some muscle atrophy, notably on the head and the belly muscles, can signify diseases such as masticatory myositis and Cushing's Disease. Be sure to have your vet check this out if any muscle loss is noted."

I hope it is only age related, and not anything more serious but it does sound as though you need to have more discussion with your vet on this.

Keep us posted.

Linda
Tahnee Golden Retrievers
Endeavor Golden Retrievers


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

By now you've probably found this site... you may find this quote interesting... 
"The average patient age is 3 years. The most common breeds are German shepherds, Labrador retrievers, Doberman pinschers, Golden Retrievers, and Cavalier King Charles spaniels. Patients can be of either gender. ...
...One would expect symmetrical atrophy and pain but this is often not the case. Lack of symmetry certainly is not evidence against Masticatory Myositis."

Michigan Veterinary Specialists - Masticatory Myositis
myositis
Comparative Neuromuscular Laboratory


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## Brokejumper (Jan 16, 2007)

Chronic Masticatory Myositis does indeed look like the most likely culprit here.... The one thing that does not seem to work here is that she does not seem to have any trouble opening her jaw. I suppose she could be compensating and it would not show yet. If anyone else has other ideas that would be great but this seems likely.

Now for the other part of my question.... How to deal with my vet? Or do I? I live near Seattle and I know the University of Washington has a vet program. Do you all think I need to go to a specialist here or perhaps approach my local vet with this possibility?


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## Brokejumper (Jan 16, 2007)

jeffreyzone said:


> Does Tella still have feeling in the area where the muscle has degenerated? It would be great if you could post a photo of her. Are you located near a university veterinary school or a large city?
> 
> Poor girl. I'm glad you brought her question to the forum. Welcome.


Yes she does seem to have some feeling there.


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

Brokejumper said:


> Now for the other part of my question.... How to deal with my vet? Or do I? I live near Seattle and I know the University of Washington has a vet program. Do you all think I need to go to a specialist here or perhaps approach my local vet with this possibility?


The proper protocol is to have your vet refer you to the vet school. Many vet schools won't even allow you to make an appointment without your own vet's referral. Don't feel badly about asking. Vet schools are your primary source for specialists, and your vet will most likely not be offended. You might be surprised to learn how many cases your vet sends to the local vet school. It's actually very common. 

I


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Brokejumper said:


> Chronic Masticatory Myositis does indeed look like the most likely culprit here.... The one thing that does not seem to work here is that she does not seem to have any trouble opening her jaw...


When I googled Masticatory Myositis last night (thanks to Tahnee GR for giving it a name) I came across two links to websites that related an individual dog's story which included a diagnosis of MMM... and neither case was there any problems associated with their jaw movement... so this apparently is not a necessary symptom for a diagnosis of MMM.

My suggestion to you is to printout all the information you can locate online about MMM and present this to your vet. Your vet *should* know exactly how to proceed from there. However just from what you wrote about your vet, it almost makes me wonder about his abilities and his level of concern for your dog... it just seems to me that if a 'lay person' on the internet could come up with a possible diagnosis and name... then I feel your vet should have had some idea on a direction on how to get a handle on this disease... other than 'mumbling' something about observation... if it were me and my dog's health were at stake I'd try to find a vet who is a little more knowledgeable/experienced on how to handle these 'unknown' disease situations. Its his apparent lack of concern that really bothers me here.


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## jeffreyzone (Feb 8, 2006)

Well-said, Monomer. I wonder if Rick or some of our other members in the Seattle area can help with a recommendation of a veterinarian? A second opinion would be very useful, and perhaps from there, she can be recommended to the university as Brandy's Mom suggested.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

It wouldn't hurt to call the vet school to see if they would just accept you for an exam. I call all the time for exams for clearances-heart, eyes, etc. although I do think that when Scarlet had the MRI, that was a referral.

Also, please don't panic. Old dogs do lose muscle tone and mass, both in their bodies and their heads. I have seen that with all my dogs once they hit about 10 or so. The first time I saw it, I panicked and took my old girl straight to the vet. She was 10, and although her weight was good, I could see her spine and her head had changed. Turned out it was just normal aging-she lived another 5 happy years 

My fingers are crossed that it is just normal aging, but the best thing to do is to start with your vet and if he/she is not helpful or interested, find a vet who is.

Linda
Tahnee Golden Retrievers
Endeavor Golden Retrievers


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## fordtruckman (Jan 7, 2007)

this has nothin' to do whith the subject but I just wanted to say what happened to are 9 year old golden her name is Hope.
This summer she got very sick over night and could barly walk with out tipping over! we were afraid that it was rabies or lukimia (don't know how to spell that) but she had her rabies shot so we took her to the vet and they couldn't figure out what it was they thought it might be rat pioson but it wasn't. She came very closed to dying but thank God she lived. to this day the vet still doesen't no what it was.


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## Brokejumper (Jan 16, 2007)

*Old Story - Final Diagnosis*

I apologize for resurrecting a long dead thread but I wanted to give the final results of the diagnosis for the symptoms I described at the beginning of the thread in case it should benefit someone in the future. 

Our wonderful girl ended up having a tumor at the base of her skull that was slowly cutting off the nerves that ran up towards her head. There was nothing that we could do treatment wise and she ended up dying six months after this post. 

She was a wonderful companion and will not be forgotten.


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## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

Oh I am so sorry you lost your girl. How tragic. Thank you for posting...it may be helpful for someone in the future.


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## goldencontriever3 (Nov 7, 2008)

I am so sorry for your loss. I hope the many wonderful memories you have bring you comfort.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I am so sorry you lost your girl.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

so sorry to hear of your loss of your loved girl.
Thanks for updating your thread....it may very well help another owner.


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## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

Im so sorry for your loss..how heartbreaking


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## Belle's Mom (Jan 24, 2007)

I am sorry for your loss.

That was very considerate of you to come update us and provide members helpful info.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I am so sorry for your loss of your sweet girl. Thank you for coming back and telling us what happened. Hopefully if it happens to someone else, your girl will have helped someone else. My heart goes out to you.


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## FinnTastic (Apr 20, 2009)

I'm very sorry for the loss of your girl. Thank you for posting an update incase someone else needs it in the future. Stay around the forum.


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## lucysmum (Sep 2, 2010)

Soo sad to hear the bad news.

Keeping you in my thoughts.


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## vrmueller (Jun 14, 2008)

Thinking of Tella and wishing you peace. So very sorry for your loss.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Oh no!*

Oh no, I am so very sorry to hear of the loss of your precious girl!!


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

I'm so sorry about your untimely loss of Tella.


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## tonydz (Jul 7, 2017)

Im so sorry for your loss...  

We currently are going thru the same thing with our 11 month old golden. Started with a stuffy nose, then runny eye, and now loss of muscle on his head on the same side. 

Vet is unsure what it is, so they referred us to the VCA. The first thing VCA wants to do is an MRI and scans, which cost over $5k ! They haven't done bloodwork, or anything else yet. 

I'm just not sure what to do at this point.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

You need to suggest your vet order a 2M antibody test which is most definitive confirmation of MMM (the 2M fibers are destroyed by the disease) and while blood chemistry can determine the creatine kinase (CK) level to be normal, it is only elevated during the acute phase so a normal CK does not rule out MMM.
11 months is young for this disease, but ruling out MMM is a best first step = then look at the MRI and US which would tell you if there is a brain tumor (or to my mind, a nasal tumor).


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## tonydz (Jul 7, 2017)

Thanks for the suggestions. 

And sorry messed up! Our golden is 11 years old, not months! Not sure how that happened. Stressful times.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

11 years old- that changes things. I would not fret that MMM was a culprit so much, but the antibody test shouldn't cost more than a couple hundred dollars so I'd do it anyway but would expect to have to do a full neuro workup- gait study, radiographs, ultrasound and MRI... if your pocketbook is lucky, the rads will show something and you won't have to do the rest but then at 11 you will have to consider cost vs benefit for any surgeries or treatments, I hope you get good news. Please let us know.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

I don't mean to hijack but I have a five year old with gradual and subtle head muscle atrophy. We've done blood work, thyroid, and the muscle fiber antibody test mentioned above. Everything points to normal. My vet thinks if it were something like a tumor, the muscle wasting would be sudden and much more dramatic, so I've left it alone for now, but whether or not to do an MRI is in my mind.


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