# Growling when I try take bone away



## IvanD (Mar 25, 2007)

Hey all,

i've been told to start young to try take away their food when they're eating to prevent possessive-ness over their food. Micah's fine with his bones but tonight I gave him a rawhide and when I first approached him, to my utter suprise, he growled at me... At least it sounded like it...

I then took another treat to try get him to trade. But I still had to grab onto his "bone" and stuff the other treat in his nose so he smells it. He would then let go...

Am I doing things right?

I have no clue why, I've always been taking food from him... but this was the first time that happened. It's really scaring me...

This is something close to my worst nightmare... I tried it again, and he growled at me once again. While chewing. It's seriously scaring me. 

Thanks.
Ivan


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## harlowsmom (Feb 25, 2007)

I don't know if trading him for another treat is best, I would worry that he thinks of himself as alpha. I'd just keep working on it. If he growls, don't give it back for awhile. 

Everytime I give Harlow something special I'll take it away after awhile just to make sure she'll let me. Than I'll give it back in a few minutes. 

If you think he's getting food aggressive, try hand feeding him occasionally, or holding the kong/bone and allowing him to lick it while you hold it.


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## IvanD (Mar 25, 2007)

If it helps at all. He's only 9 weeks... I worry that now that I have accidentally shown him that growling works. He's going to be using it when people do things that he doesn't like to him....


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## KatzNK9 (Feb 27, 2007)

It is a pretty common problem so I wouldn't let it scare you but I would do my best to correct it, that's for sure. The "trading up" game seems to be the best idea I've heard.

I'd also do some work on feeding him by hand & dropping some extra tasty food into the bowl in addition to what you're giving by hand. I'd keep my hands in the area & sorta mix around the food while he's munching & feed him by hand & add a little more to the bowl. I'd give him bones in his dish in the same fashion & keep handling it in the early stages of chewing & do a couple of "trade up" games while introducing bones ... treat, bone, treat, bone & then leave him to enjoy his bone.

The give & take should make your dog more confident that you're not taking anything away from him & repeating the process should desensitize him to handling.


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## IvanD (Mar 25, 2007)

Thanks but right now the situation I'm in is, he's munching on his bone and I want to trade with him. He doesn't want to trade... He tries to have the bone in his mouth AND snap at my treat...

He isn't really food protective, more like bone protective because I always take water, food, treats away from him when he's eating. He didn't react to it... I think it's because he thinks the bone tastes best and doesn't want me to take it away from him...


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

If it were me, I'd say no more rawhides. Period. For some dogs, the "animal part" chew sticks are just too valuable. (Rawhide, pigs ears, chew hooves, pig snouts, etc.) I know some people say that's just skirting the problem, but some dogs will guard those kinds of things and nothing else. Plus, if I recall, you have a little sister and I don't want her reaching for a rawhide when nobody is looking.

If you want to work on it, you'll need really mind-blowingly tasty treats. Something that he wants MORE that the rawhide. Cooked chicken, bits of meat from your dinner, etc.

Start with a large rawhide and YOU hold one end while he chews the other. Never let him have it on his own. After a bit of gnawing, put a steak bit to her nose and HAPPILY say "give". When he trades, let him eat the steak and say "good boy" as you let him go back to gnawing the rawhide. Trade often and when you're done with the session, put the rawhide away. Leave things like the KONG or Nylabones down for him to chew.

Also, I'm sorry, but I can't stand vets who give the advise of taking your dog's food bowl away to teach him that you're the boss. In many dogs, that will just TEACH them to growl. Think about it. The dog is growling b/c they think your presence near the "resource" (bowl, bone, crate, couch, etc.) is a threat. When you just TAKE the item, you're telling the dog he's right -- you are a threat 'cuz you just took the valuable thing.

When he's eating, walk past and drop a mind-blowing treat near his head in the bowl. Do that everymeal for a week. By then he should start to happily look up at you when you come near the bowl b/c he's expecting his steak and steak trumps kibble! Then you start tossing the treat IN the bowl for a week. THEN you move up to picking up the bowl and putting the treat IN IT and then giving it back.

In general, if you have to get something from him, best to trade so the dog never feels like he has to growl to guard the object. It's also why I never chase my puppies when they have stolen objects. I say "good boy - bring it here" and get them to retrieve the stolen TV remote or whatever.

-Stephanie


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I have one that will let any human take the bones, etc away , but when the other dogs come around she guards it..... The only time I let them have them is if they are in there own crates.....I did have a foster this was and I did the trade the treat for the bone and after about 2 weeks he wasnt growling anymore.....


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Early on, Samson would growl at my son, Ricky, with treats...... But he was the only kid he'd growl at....

So what we did was have Ricky hold the treat while Samson would eat it, in the palm of his hand. Ricky also would hold Samson's food dish in his lap while Samson ate....

And when he did growl, we took his treat away. 

It must've worked....because Samson doesn't growl at all now, while eating anything.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

I agree with Flying Quizini: Don't offer the problem treat (rawhide) anymore. 
We had growling one time with Brooks when he was little--and it was about rawhide. End of rawhide, end of growling.


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## ty823 (Feb 7, 2006)

I would also suggest holding onto it while he eating, take it away every min. or so and make him sit or lay down before you give it back. That worked for us. 
Also, don't be afraid of him, even if it hurts! If he snaps and you act scared, he thinks 'Hey, that worked pretty good!' Be firm, grab him somehow so he can't bite you, and take the offending goodie from him ASAP. Keep a pair of leather gloves handy if you need to.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

I think Flying Quizini has said it wonderfully! Some dogs just cannot handle rawhide! When I had my Chelsea and Dakota they got along great. Absolutely LOVED each other. Dakota knew Chelsea was the alpha (between the 2 dogs) and there was never any problem ---- until the day I brought home a box of rawhides. Gave them each one and one dog got through before the other and walked near the dog that still had the rawhide ----- and the fight was on!!! I thought they were going to KILL each other --- all over a stupid rawhide! I threw the box away and have never given ANY of my dogs rowhide again. After the rawhide was gone Chelsea and Dakota were the best of friends again until the day they died. Jazzy got some rawhides in a goodie bag she received when she graduated puppy kindergarten. They went into the garbage

Jazzys Mom


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## Griffyn'sMom (Mar 22, 2007)

Ah - this is the ONLY thing that Griff ever growled at me for - a rawhide that he got from Puppy Class - Instructor was actually teaching the Take it/Drop it command and let him have the chew because he was teething and bloodied the whole thing up - she wasn't about to give it to anyone else at that point.

Later on that day I gave it to him and when he was getting too much of it off (I was afraid of him choking) I went to take it - told him drop it and he growled. Needless to say I said "uh Uh - No way" and took it away from him. 2nd time I gave it to him I had to attach a leash to him to take it away but there was no growling. He's had it a couple of times now - it's his distraction while I cut his nails. So far so good - he only has it while I cut his nails and then I take it and give him a carrot or a different treat. 

I pet him every day while he is eating, rattle my hand in his bowl - and we practice take/drop it/take/drop it/take every day when he gets his carrot. 

Keep working with him - he is just testing the waters. If he is fine with everything else then I'd avoid the rawhide for a while until you feel you can trust him again. Don't let that little pup get the upper hand. Some dogs just can't have rawhides/pigs ears/etc. Don't let the growling become a habit. Like I said - Griff has growled at me once and only once. (This was over a month ago when he was 4 1/2 months old.) Now that he's bigger - if he tried another stunt like that I wouldn't give him the rawhide anymore.


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## Carsonsdaddy (Nov 1, 2006)

I don't know if Carson knows how to growl. :doh:  He has only done it a few times....and only when we're playing tug-o-war...so play growls.


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## sashac (Mar 13, 2006)

I completely agree with Flying Quiz also - Charlie's growled at me over a bully stick (actually, he snapped at me) and I picked it up, marched over to the trash, and dumped it in while he watched. He's never gotten one again (he used to get them a lot!). 

The plus side: I think he KNEW why he lost the stick bc he looked suitably contrite, he's lost weight because he doesn't get them anymore, and he doesn't growl over the stick because he doesn't have one. 

The down side: I may have missed an opportunity to really train him out of this behavior, which also translates into other areas of his life (he's a special case). 

While I agree with FQ, I do wonder if you have an opportunity to not only train on him this issue, which could make him learn similar lessons in other areas, but to also really assert yourself as pack leader and in charge. Also, because he's so young, I feel like it may not be as big a problem yet as it was in Charlie, who is around 8. 

Question for FQ: I get what you're saying about the removing of the food bowl and the impact it has on the dog (reinforcing that you really are a threat because you take away his food), but does it at all teach the dog that you are the owner and giver of his food? Ultimately, after you take away the food bowl, you always return it back to him, so if the dog is young enough, shouldn't he just be learning (eventually) that you are the master of the food (leader of the pack who does the big hunting) and you are trustworthy enough to give him the food, so he doesn't have to worry? 
Sorry if that was confusing, but basically, while the dog may think of it as a threat at first, eventually they learn that the food is never taken away forever, just that you, the pack leader, brings it and owns it? Once that lesson is learned (both the leadership and trust lesson), you don't have to keep up with the exercise (unless you have a bigger problem) necessarily, and the dog just knows he doesn't own the food, but its there for him? 

That's how I thought that exercise worked in its entirety.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

sashac said:


> Question for FQ: I get what you're saying about the removing of the food bowl and the impact it has on the dog (reinforcing that you really are a threat because you take away his food), but does it at all teach the dog that you are the owner and giver of his food? Ultimately, after you take away the food bowl, you always return it back to him, so if the dog is young enough, shouldn't he just be learning (eventually) that you are the master of the food (leader of the pack who does the big hunting) and you are trustworthy enough to give him the food, so he doesn't have to worry?
> Sorry if that was confusing, but basically, while the dog may think of it as a threat at first, eventually they learn that the food is never taken away forever, just that you, the pack leader, brings it and owns it? Once that lesson is learned (both the leadership and trust lesson), you don't have to keep up with the exercise (unless you have a bigger problem) necessarily, and the dog just knows he doesn't own the food, but its there for him?
> 
> That's how I thought that exercise worked in its entirety.


Great question! Here's how I see it:

Just picking up the bowl and giving it back works fine with some dogs. It all depends on the individual temperament of the dog, etc. Many dogs learn the lesson just fine -- that you can take the bowl, but they get it back, etc. However, some don't -- and those dogs can go on to guard the bowl/food and growl, snap, etc.

The way I teach it (by tossing the treat and then adding a treat to the bowl after you pick it up) is designed to prevent dogs from learning the wrong lesson. It's a sort of built-in insurance policy against the dog ever thinking you are a threat when you approach.

At the end of the day, yes, you still own the food, etc. You can also reinforce that by always asking for a sit before you put the bowl down and/or a sit and stay before releasing the dog to eat, etc.

Hope that answers the question.

-S


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

*but basically, while the dog may think of it as a threat at first, eventually they learn that the food is never taken away forever, just that you, the pack leader, brings it and owns it?*

Hh yeah... meant to add -- regarding above... Yes, some dogs will learn it won't go away forever, but some dogs will get increasingly frustrated by the daily disappearance of their food. Again, just depends on the dog.

Lots of factors come into play. For example, just b/c someone is being "pack leader" over the food bowl doesn't mean that the dog views the owner as pack leader in general. If there's no real strong, benevolent leadership elsewhere throughout the dogs life, we humans trying to play packleader by controlling the food bowl means very little.

-S


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## wilki5 (Feb 25, 2007)

Maisie growled at me once before when I took her marrow bone off her to take it back outside. I wouldn't let her have it for a length of time after that. Since this she has never growled at me again and now she doesn't bring them inside the house anymore.


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## IvanD (Mar 25, 2007)

Very useful information you guys provided me with. Thanks 

I think I might just dump my bag of rawhides... He loves them though. 

But I guess that's why he growled at me...


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## sashac (Mar 13, 2006)

Thanks FQ!!! Very helpful!


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## WoodysMum (Mar 13, 2007)

I posted exactly the same thread not so long ago, under the thread growling pup. Got some great advice here which put my mind at rest. As my dog is a rescue and is only 21 weeks old my biggest worry was and is i dont know what his parents are like.

The only time he growled was over a rawhide. After reading so many stories basically the same, it seemed that these rawhides brought the beast out of the most sweetist of dogs. So we made a decision no rawhides while anyone was home. Its a treat that he has when left alone, and removed when we come home. 

That was a few weeks ago, and he has shown no sign of any aggression or possesiveness over anything. He will let me put my hands in his food, take away his favourite toy etc.

So if i was you "ban them" and enjoy your pup.


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## DaisyMay's mom (Feb 27, 2007)

Its funny- Daisy doesn't growl over her food or treats but will growl if she's playing with a toy or rope toy and i try to take it away from her, then she'll growl. Is this a sign of aggression? I try not to play tug of war with her, but usually thats the only way she will drop whatever is in her mouth, especially my wrist or hand!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

DaisyMay's mom said:


> Its funny- Daisy doesn't growl over her food or treats but will growl if she's playing with a toy or rope toy and i try to take it away from her, then she'll growl. Is this a sign of aggression? I try not to play tug of war with her, but usually thats the only way she will drop whatever is in her mouth, especially my wrist or hand!


So, she's playing with the toy on her own and when you reach for it, she growls?

It could be play or she could be guarding her toy. It's hard to say w/o seeing it or knowing more about the rest of her body language at the time. Does she growl, turn her head and run away to lie down and chew it elsewhere? If so, more likely she's guarding it. If she growls but basically stays there by you, more likely it's play. What does her body look like? Does it look relaxed or tense? How about her eyes? Do they look soft or does it look like she's giving you a dirty look (a "hard eye)? 

Either way, if you're concerned about it, I'd suggest trading her for a treat. If it's just play, you can teach her "give" or "drop it" that way. If it's not play, a treat will help diffuse the situation. Trade for a treat where she gets the treat and you get the toy. Then ask her to sit and give her the toy back. If you really need to keep the toy (like to put it away) do a couple of trade back and forth sessions before the toy goes away completely. That will prevent her from "catching on" to the trade business in case she really doesn't want to give up the toy.

Hope that helps.

-Stephanie


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## Scoobydude825 (Apr 20, 2007)

My puppy growls when he plays tug of war. But i don't think it's aggression. He would NEVER bite me or anything. But he does his playful growl like he does when he is shaking his toy with his head. Do you think this is ok? I mean Im not afraid of him and I can kiss him on the nose while he's growling. There is such thing as a playful growl right?


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

There's definitely such thing as a play growl, Tucker used to do it all the time. He doesn't anymore though, guess he grew out of it.

Tucker doesn't care if you touch his food while he's eating it, he's probably thinking "c'mon, eat with me!" lol


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## Brinkleysmom (Dec 17, 2005)

GoldenLover84 said:


> There's definitely such thing as a play growl, Tucker used to do it all the time. He doesn't anymore though, guess he grew out of it.
> 
> Tucker doesn't care if you touch his food while he's eating it, he's probably thinking "c'mon, eat with me!" lol


I agree with that because Brinkley will growl while we are playing tug of war but has no problem with me taking the toy away when I win. She just stands there doing her wiggle butt and wanting to play again.
As for food, I have never had an issue with her with treats or her food. And even when Barney tries to eat out of her dish, she doesnt growl. I am surprised at that one.


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## sashac (Mar 13, 2006)

Sometimes Charlie growls real low when he is deep-scratching his ear with his back paw. It's the funniest thing, it's this low growl of pleasure and contentment. He also has a play growl that I've heard when he plays with his friend and they are rolling around, AND a warning growl that is more aggressive - they all sound different to me and I can tell which is which.


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