# Raw food questions



## ron (Sep 16, 2005)

Hello,
After doing much studying, and reading, I finally switched to the Raw diet about 1 1/2 years ago. So far it has been the best thing we have done for our dogs. To answer your questions:
1 Bravo foods www.bravofoods.com {meat and veggie}
2. 3 Goldens 80lb.s, 75lb's, and 68lb's {all rescue dogs}
3. I have not noticed any less shedding
4. poop has no smell, it cleans the glands everytime, and is VERY easy to clean up
5. teeth and gums are perfect since switching
The raw diet {BARF} bones and raw food has been very beneficial to our dogs. Their weight is good, they are happy, and biggest of all Sam's epilepsy has gone away
This is good stuff. Do your homework, and ask questions
Hope this helps


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## golddogz (Apr 27, 2006)

I haven't gone to feeding totally raw but may in the future. Right now I rotate between the Nature's Variety kibble and their raw food. The raw food is comes in medallions and they each get about 9 twice a day. www.naturesvariety.com 

Lisa


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## katieanddusty (Feb 9, 2006)

How much does it cost to feed the raw?


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Ron...is that link right? Its not working for me. And I'm curious about the cost too. If you have an idea of how much per month it costs to feed raw, that would be helpful. I've looked at raw sites and I'm confused on the quantity needed when I look at the prices.

Thanks.


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

1. What do you feed your dog? (if prepacked raw food please name brand) (strictly meat or meat and veggies?). 
I feed Prairie, which is pre-made and frozen.( http://www.naturesvariety.com/conte...n=naturesvariety:1877E7B00a7361E1CExmX375E4C1) My two have been using this for about 1 1/2 years and they LOVE it. I buy the patties which are 8 ounces each($19.95 for 6 pounds). The patties contain meat, ground bones, vegetables and fruits along with oils.

2. About how much and weight of dog. 
I feed Beau(80 pounds) 1 patty in the morning and 1 in the evening plus some added ingredients like yogurt, pumpkin, or cottage cheese along with his supplements. Emmy (55 pounds) get the same but no added ingredients with her supplements. I weigh them regularly and up Beau's amount if needed. I figure about 1 1/2 to 2% of their body weight. That also depends on the exercise. The above website gives an idea about how much to feed.

3. I heard raw meat diet really decreases their sheading, is this true? (this would be great, if true) 
I don't think the shedding has dropped significantly.

4. I also heard that their poop barely smells if feeding a raw meat diet, is this true? I definitely notice smaller stools and less smells.

5. How are the dog's teeth and gums on the raw food diet? 
I brush my dogs teeth a couple of times a week. Their teeth and gums looked very healthy

6. Other good commerical raw foods are: Steve's Real Food, BarfWorld,
Primal. These are all on the internet and I think can be found using the names I listed. I gave the website to the one I use.

I noticed a BIG change in coat-their coats shine brighter than before, silky to the touch, no dry skin and no hot spots. No doggy breath either. 
Good luck
I really believe in the raw diet and one added thing is that after losing 3 goldens to cancer I wanted to beable to give the best diet to build the immune system. I also found out that cancer thrives on carbohydrates.


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## jessme7 (May 29, 2006)

Thank you so much Gold4me. I really got a lot of info from that and it answers my questions. 
I am also thinking about going on raw meat only, so I hope someone out there has experience with this, and would appreciate anyone elses experience with any kind of raw food diet.


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

I would not recommend feeding only meat. They do need to have some vegetables and fruits and oil in their diet. A diet of only raw meat is not suitable for dogs. In the wild, canines also consume veggies, carrion, and berries. If you only feed raw meat a dog can develop some deficiencies. If you are thinking about making your own get the book by Ian Billinghurst. I believe it is called BARF Diet. It is his newest book and tells everything you need to know about what you should feed and how to make it. Personally I am lazy and would rather pay for someone else to do the work. Ha Ha If you have any other questions feel free to ask me. I am a BIG FAN of this diet and have seen wonderful results!!!!!
Check out these websites
http://members.shaw.ca/naturalpaws/rawdiet-dogs.htm

http://www.doggiesparadise.com/rawdiet.shtml I don't think the dogs need any grains except once in a while and I believe somewhere on this website it mentions adding grains.


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## jessme7 (May 29, 2006)

I dont think dogs need any grains also, thats why I dont really like kibble. Also since dogs are lactose intolerant I am not sure if they should have dairy also. But I had a jack russel ter. thats with my father right now, we give him milk all the time, I guess he got used to it. Thank you for the info again. I will check out those sites and I am sure I will have more questions for you.


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## golddogz (Apr 27, 2006)

Gold4Me, what type of supplements do you give along with the raw diet?

Lisa


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

I give each dog: 500 mg Vit. C, 1/4 teaspoon Yucca, 1/4 teaspoon SynoviaMSM, fish oil( evening only for this), 1/4 teaspoon Turmeric spice(even only for this). I also have been giving Beau DGP as he is almost 9 and a crazy man when it comes to playing ball.


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## ron (Sep 16, 2005)

Sorry,
The two foods we use are
www.bravorawdiet.com [lots of good info on site]
www.omaspride.com
I would recommend getting it with SOME veggies! 
I am a BIG supporter of raw diet for dogs! It has done some amazing things for the health of our 3 Goldens
Good luck, and keep asking questions


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

jessme7 said:


> I know there is a whole controversy on feeding raw or kibble, so we will not get into that here. I am doing a little research on raw food for my pups, and thinking about switching to raw. I have read previous threads about raw food diet also.
> What I would like to find out is, all the people here that does feed their dogs raw food: 1. What do you feed your dog? (if prepacked raw food please name brand) (strictly meat or meat and veggies?). 2. About how much and weight of dog. 3. I heard raw meat diet really decreases their sheading, is this true? (this would be great, if true) 4. I also heard that their poop barely smells if feeding a raw meat diet, is this true? 5. How are the dog's teeth and gums on the raw food diet?
> And if you have any more facts, suggestions, web links, ect. please list. I am very interested to find out what all your experiences are with raw food. Thank you


We do not feed our current dog (Sidney, the Golden Retriever) anything raw (other than eggs). Our last dog Kimo (an American Eskimo) ate raw for almost all of his 10-1/2 years of life, when he quite suddenly died of kidney failure... my wife thinks it was due to the raw diet, I think maybe it was more vaccination related... bottomline is: losing Kimo hurt like hell for a long time and what triggered the sudden onset of kidney failure we will never know for sure.

Please keep this much in mind... Unlike humans, who can select their own diets from a myriad of foods and in accords with our own natural cravings, dogs can only eat what we choose to give them. Your dog's diet should not be taken lightly with a 'trial-n-error' or 'fun-n-games' or 'experimental- "hey let's see what feeding this does"' -type of attitude... your dog's health, well-being and his life is literally in your hands. Thoroughly research any new diet and make sure you have a good understanding of all that's involved with dog nutrition BEFORE you start feeding a new diet. You can get by with a deficiency of something sometimes for a year or two or even three before the damage becomes apparent, maybe irreversible damage... be really careful (even skeptical) when reading about miraculous claims made on Internet websites and forums by strangers whom you know nothing about.

So to answer your questions (using Kimo, our last dog who was fed raw for ~8years, to draw experience from)...
1. The first couple of years it was prepared at home using fresh ingredients... in subsequent years, for convenience, we purchased AFS canine rolls and Halshan's packaged meat w/ vegetables (all different varieties). A web-search on *A*nimal *F*ood *S*ervice and Halshan ought to lead you to their websites.
2. I believe it was about 3/4 pound a day for a 42-pound American Eskimo (who was very well exercised all-year 'round)... though the exact amount fed did varied throughout his life.
3. Though there was nothing to compare it against (because he ate raw praactcally all his life) I would suspect if all the appropriate nutritional needs are met (adequate... high quality protein, B-vitamin complex, Omega 6's/3's/an animal fat, zinc) on any diet the dog is being fed then questioning shedding due to diet would be moot.
4. See #3 above... poop can smell for any number of reasons... sometimes Kimo's poop stunk more, sometimes less, sometimes it was firm, sometimes it was diarrhea, etc.
5. Depends upon the dog... Kimo's teeth would constantly produce tarter and so I'd brush his teeth quite regularly to keep it at bay (like 2 or 3 times a month)... our current dog, Sidney (kibble fed), doesn't require any teeth-brushing, though I do find myself brushing them at least once a month, just out of habit I guess. But I really doubt the kibble has any affect upon his dental cleanliness... its got to be the tennis balls!

EDIT: Check out this old thread here , Amy did a very good job and has a lot of the websites listed and already linked for you.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Rick or Joe or Dilligas... repeated posting... delete this extra post please!


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

I can't eat meat that isn't at the point of being burnt, and I just can't bring myself to give it to my dogs either. They do get meat, cooked meat. Tonight for supper I made myself some calf liver with onions, a baked potato, broccoli/corn mix and fruit salad. For the dogs, I boiled the rest of the liver with chipped white potates and frozen green peas and added this to their dry food. Last night I ate a Stouffers' TV dinner and they had canned salmon, canned (usalted) green beans and carrot slices with their dry food.

I am on an all breed board with about 2000 members---some there every day, some once a month or even less. Anyway, several do feed raw and report their dogs teeth stay as white as the day they came in. I have not seen anything about cutting down on shedding tho.


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## jessme7 (May 29, 2006)

Monomer, thats why I am doing research about raw diet, to find out what would be best for my pups. People on the forum are strangers but I am sure everyone on here feels for everybodys dogs so thats why I am asking these questions on the forum to experienced (feeding not just for one dogs life but for generations) raw diet feeders. Thank you for answering my questions from your experience with Kimo. 

It seems that most people prefer prepacked raw diet. I was wondering if anyone out there feeds their dogs raw chickens (whole or half with bones).


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

I do. I give my guy RAW chicken backs, bones and all. I rinse the backs and then spray them with grapefruit seed extract to sterilize them. Some people give chicken wings too but I worry about them trying to swallow the wings whole as their mouths are bigger. My holistic vet also said you could drop the backs into boiling water for 15 seconds(no longer) too. I do that with raw chicken hearts. 
It is important to read and ask questions. I spent years reading about this and discussing it with my holistic vet before giving it a try.


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## katieanddusty (Feb 9, 2006)

You should lurk on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/ for a while. See the people singing the praises of all things raw, see the people whose dogs are having complications, and decide for yourself.


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## ron (Sep 16, 2005)

Our Goldens eat chicken necks for breakfast
Your doing great, keep asking thase questions
Good luck


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## jessme7 (May 29, 2006)

Did your dogs have any problems when first switching to raw? Did you gradually introduce raw or just switched them completely?


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## jessme7 (May 29, 2006)

Did your dogs have any problems when first switching to raw? Did you gradually introduce raw or just switched them completely?


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

Gradually is better because a raw diet is richer than the kibble. I began to introduce raw with the kibble just like you would do when changing kibble brands.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

jessme7 said:


> Monomer, thats why I am doing research about raw diet, to find out what would be best for my pups. People on the forum are strangers but I am sure everyone on here feels for everybodys dogs so thats why I am asking these questions on the forum to experienced (feeding not just for one dogs life but for generations) raw diet feeders...


Let me tell you a little story of something I experience on the wellness website about 5 or 6 years ago...
I had join it and several other forums full of 'enlighten' and caring pet lovers whose main concern was feeding their dogs raw (as an interesting sideline, none of these people themselves ate 'raw', even though there was/is also a similar human movement). I did participate some in the beginning but I think I asked too many logical (and obvious) questions and so that forum's 'gurus' began avoiding me. Over a month or so I noticed the pattern on this website was for newbies to ask questions and a half dozen 'self-appointed gurus' to give all the advice... the rest of the forum members were made up of sycophants... and the whole atmosphere had a religious cult air to it as the 'proof' for everything was in quotes by chapter, page number from Billinghurst's "Give Your Dog A Bone", Pitcairn's "Natural Health for Dogs and Cats" and Ann Martin's "Food Pets Die For", with Billinghurst as the most powerful god of the bunch... meaning, in all disputes Billinghurst wins without question. I was only visiting that forum a couple of times a week when I happened across a thread started by a woman whose dog was dying in the night and she was frantically asking for advice... evidently she had join the forum a couple weeks earlier and read all the hype being spewed about all the miracles cures that were for the asking if you just start feeding your dog raw... at the time the top discussions centered around the feeding of raw chicken necks, wings and backs and the wonders of health that ensued from doing so. So she finally 'bit the bullet' and fed her dog one chicken back for dinner... he didn't really like it much but ate most of it... later he started having convulsions and had gone pale, she couldn't get a hold of her vet so she was desperately seeking advice on what to do. I couldn't believe it when I read all the subsequent 'advice' she was then given... every bit of it consisted of accusing her of not having read THE BOOK or not having follow the instructions in THE BOOK precisely, they scolded her and scolded her in posting after posting. The poor woman had posted just one more time in that thread to say her dog had die... After reading that thread, I was sooooo hopping mad I could have spit bullets... I verbally laid into those biddies and lashed out at them for showing no compassion for the poor woman or her dog, I then proceed to attack one particular guru about her fake credentials which I'd research (her claimed Phd's were bogus and so were her Smithsonian claims as well)... in her response she said I was picking on her and it was not fair... can you believe that? Over the course of the next day I research another guru and blew her cover as well... I was just trying to be fair, grrrr. The most interesting thing that happen was after I lambasted the whole website as being nothing more than about self-promotion and money oriented and without any thought to the health and well-being of pets and then signed off forever... quickly, I got two really interesting follow-up emails. The first was from one of the two owners of the website apologizing and admitting things definitely got out-of-hand on that forum because neither owner had been monitoring it for months... she promised to change forum rules and do better about monitoring that forum in the future. The other email was from a lurker... evidently that website is monitored by a group of animal lovers made up of veterinary assistants and student vets who try to 'catch' those newbies who've been given really bad advice... I was shocked there was such a 'secret' network and why didn't they 'catch' that woman whose dog died.

Please understand the advice I give is from experience with no other ulterior motive or agenda other than the good health and well-being of your dog in mind.

I might suggest that you need to also do internet searches looking for the anti-raw websites... there are very few and quite hard to find and are very unpopular with the pro-raw advocates. You need to be aware of both perspectives on this still controversial diet for pets and people. If you're only looking for positive reviews (and miracles) of the raw food diet, believe me, that is all you will find. This is how it works with just about anything... you generally tend to only find the type of answers you are seeking when you go into searching under preconceived notions of what to expect.

I personally would be feeding Sidney raw if my wife would agree to it because I believe I know enough about dog nutrition to make it a safe choice but I do respect her views and so we compromise... the raw eggs, lightly cooked liver/kidneys/heart, several oils and other additives, I select. However I would like to give you the logic and perspective I used in selecting AFS and Halshan's for Kimo's raw diet. AFS has a 30+year history of feeding carnivores in zoos and so their food rolls have vitamin/mineral packages added and is guaranteed (through trials) to be the only food you need to feed to keep your dogs alive (most other raw food suppliers have done no actual feeding trials and are just feeding a current 'fad?' demand for raw). Halshan's on-the-other-hand prepares an extremely wide variety of meat and vegetable combinations but adds no extra vitamins or minerals and therefore is obviously not balanced... in fact they tell you you must add a calcium source to off-set the high phosphorus levels of the meat... so I would also purchase their ground chicken necks (ends up looking like a pinkish paste) to which I'd add quarter portions to each meal. 

[An aside: Although there is much said both ways about the feeding of raw chicken bones to dogs, I've visited the vet websites that show the damage inflicted by raw bone splinters puncturing intestinal walls (where bleeding occurs and intestinal bacteria escapes into the cavities and cause low grade infections, fevers, that slowly destroy body organs over time) so why take the chance? Raw bones don't splinter they say... why don't you try to break some in your hands, true they are way more flexible than cook bones but guess what? they're still capable of splintering... one wolf rescue website states this is one of the major causes of death in wolves. So I'd suggest you stick with the ground-up chicken parts if you are going to feed raw.] 

How we fed Kimo was to cut the AFS rolls into approximately 1/2lb patties (cheaper than buying the pre-cut patties) and adding different Halshan products for variety with enough ground chicken necks to balance. Finally I would rotate various fresh items and additives to round out Kimo's diet. I also would add green tripe (intestines with the contents) whenever I felt I could put up with the smell.

This was a much longer post than what I intended but I hope you've at least gained some insight into my perspectives of why I offer the advice I do.


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

I am speechless as to what you experienced. It is sad that some people are like that. I find your postings on your feeding experience very enlightning and agree that feeding raw should be done with caution. I spent several years reading the pros and cons and supplemented the reading with discussions with my vet. I am shaking my head after reading what you wrote. Sad, very sad!

I also run a blood panel and blood chemistry on both my kids to check for any irregularities and I do that yearly. I did it before starting on the raw diet and yearly after. Also regular stool samples and monthly weighing. My holistic vet sees both dogs monthly for chiropractic care and does a check of their eyes, gums, skin and ears before our sessions. I trust his evaluations.

Feed raw is not something to take lightly. All dogs should be monitored constantly for any problems that may or may not occur. A dog with a depressed immune system could develop problems with bacteria that a healthy dog would have no problems with.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

I've been participating on Internet forums and alike for over 10-years now and there are only about a half-dozen or so incidents that really hit me hard emotionally... that was one of them. And I'm one of those zen guys who almost never gets upset or emotional about things that happen on the Internet.

I'm surprised you haven't run into the 'cult fringe' on this raw movement... though I no longer participate on any dog health and nutrition forums, when I did, I always ran into some of them on all the raw food forums. Things couldn't have changed that much in the last 3 years or so...


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## gold4me (Mar 12, 2006)

I never saw any of the "cult" mentality but did see some strange recommendations. I personally never participated in any of the raw diet forums as I didn't agree with some of the advice and I thought some of the people were very verbally aggressive. I decided it was up to me to do research and talk to those people I felt were knowledgable. I will give recommendations according to my experience knowing full well dogs are different and everyone should monitor their dogs VERY CLOSELY! I like reading what you have discovered.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

monomer said:


> ...as an interesting sideline, none of these people themselves ate 'raw', even though there was/is also a similar human movement...


I do apologize if anyone has misunderstood this statement... (through a PM I received, evidently this was a problem). The RAW movement for humans uses the same foundational reasonings pretaining to the healthfulness of following such a diet regiment... [such as... Human digestive systems were evolved long before the use of fire and cooking denatures many valuable enzymes and vitamins, yada, yada, yada...] but the actual diet recommendations themselves for canine and humans do differ at points (for very obvious reasons). Sorry about any confusion my statement may have caused.


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