# puppy aggression escalating - worried



## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

Puppy class wil definitely help in my opinion. You said the trading game was working-what were you using to trade?


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

If you don't want the crate to be associated with bad things, I wouldn't use the crate for time-out. 

We use the bathroom for time-outs. We make sure the toiler paper and anything that she could chew is hidden and just say time-out and calmly put her in there with the lights off for about 30 seconds. Depending on the age it can be like for 2 minutes, but for young puppies I heard that 30 seconds is enough. And you can't let your puppy out if she is whining or barking. Have to wait for a few seconds of silence before letting her out.

Seems to work for us. Hope it does for you.


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

I went through a short spell of this with Oakly. I spent several weeks hand feeding him sitting on the floor handing him each bit of his kibble. It worked wonders for him. Good luck to you and let us know what works for you.


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## Spun Gold (Nov 4, 2008)

You need to seek the advice of an animal trainer or behaviorist, she is coveting 'stuff' and her behavior is unacceptable. 

I know what I would do with her if she were my dog. But I hesitate to give advice to someone who is afraid of their puppy. You need someone who will dominate her and take the bite if necessary to get the point across that she is NOT top dog. 

Until then I would put her on a choke collar and 6 foot leather lead to give her a quick snap and release correction of your own when she displays, coinciding with a very emphatic NO. Not a little nagging tug but a good stiff correction. Keep that leash on her so you have a handle and you don't have to reach down and touch her in case she goes at your hand.

Have you contacted your breeder? Perhaps a phone call would be in order. She sounds like a dominant puppy, might not have been a good match to your home. Especially if this is your first dog.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

I wouldn't stick her in the crate but I would take the thing from her if you can (do your best). If she is going to bite put something on to protect your arm so that you can take it and let her know that biting isn't going to work. If she latches on and you can't pry her mouth then you can blow a quick puff of air into her nose. That startles most dogs. The most important thing is that you need to let her know that her antics aren't going to work and you will still get it.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

I think you and the puppy would be better off giving her something AMAZING in return for whatever it is she may have. If the puppy has an ice cube, offer a piece of cheese or hot dog. Need a better treat, use roast or lunch meat! The puppy will usually drop whatever she may have to get the delicious food.

In my opinion the choke chain and leash corrections are not at all necessary here. Outsmart the dog, not correct it into submission.

She is growling and biting because she doesn't want you to take her toy away from her. Since that is what you are trying to do, kinda justifies WHY she is acting that way. Instead, don't be a threat to her stuff. Offer her amazing treats in return for whatever she may have. She'll learn that when you are around great things happen and there is no reason to be protective of anything.

If she has something and is growling at you, and what she is not of danger to her, I would let her keep it until you can get it safely and she is willing to trade for a treat. By taking it from her anyway you are just reinforcing the need for her to growl and bite.

I would also recommend feeding her her food by hand like Oakly's dad said.


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## SashaGirl (Jan 13, 2009)

Bock said:


> Puppy class wil definitely help in my opinion. You said the trading game was working-what were you using to trade?


We used a variety of things. In the beginning, it didn't seem to matter what we traded, she fell in the pattern easily. We used good stuff like cut up sausage, hot dog and also just regular every day treats. She traded nicely and consistently after the first incident.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

SashaGirl said:


> We used a variety of things. In the beginning, it didn't seem to matter what we traded, she fell in the pattern easily. We used good stuff like cut up sausage, hot dog and also just regular every day treats. She traded nicely and consistently after the first incident.


 
If she is still willing to trade, just keep doing what you're doing. Training is all about consistency in my opinion. Eventually she should get the message that you mean no harm and hopefully be able to take things away from her without her being protective of it.

More of the experience dog trainers will hopefully take a look at this thread and give their opinions.


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## SashaGirl (Jan 13, 2009)

shortcake23 said:


> If you don't want the crate to be associated with bad things, I wouldn't use the crate for time-out.
> 
> We use the bathroom for time-outs. We make sure the toiler paper and anything that she could chew is hidden and just say time-out and calmly put her in there with the lights off for about 30 seconds. Depending on the age it can be like for 2 minutes, but for young puppies I heard that 30 seconds is enough. And you can't let your puppy out if she is whining or barking. Have to wait for a few seconds of silence before letting her out.
> 
> Seems to work for us. Hope it does for you.


I do want the crate to be her safe place so that was why I was avoiding it. 
For the time-outs, does your bathroom have windows? I could do this but my bathroom would leave her in complete darkness as it is windowless and I just want to be sure that's ok.


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

SashaGirl said:


> I do want the crate to be her safe place so that was why I was avoiding it.
> For the time-outs, does your bathroom have windows? I could do this but my bathroom would leave her in complete darkness as it is windowless and I just want to be sure that's ok.


No, no windows in my bathroom. She's in complete darkness.

The time-out idea is just to give her time to "reflect" on what she's done... well, it's more a way to teach her that if she's doing bad things, she'll be taken away from her people, and Goldens are very people-oriented, so they don't like being taken away from them.

That's what I read in some books and what the Petsmart trainer told me.


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## SashaGirl (Jan 13, 2009)

Oaklys Dad said:


> I went through a short spell of this with Oakly. I spent several weeks hand feeding him sitting on the floor handing him each bit of his kibble. It worked wonders for him. Good luck to you and let us know what works for you.


I can definitely do this. She has really shown no issues over food and us handling it.... yet.


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

Also, something I just thought of. At first, I would get frustrated when Mia would be trying to bite at my hands, clothes, everything, and me getting frustrated (even if I was trying not to show it) was making her even more "excited" and act out. 

I find that since I understood that and really worked and not being frustrated at all and just calmly taught her drop-it (with high value treats) or put her in a time-out when she wasn't listening (like when she kept going after the cats and play bite them) things started going a lot better.

She's 17 weeks old now and I find that the combination of those things and her passing the 9 to 13 week old stage helped a lot!


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## SashaGirl (Jan 13, 2009)

Bock said:


> I think you and the puppy would be better off giving her something AMAZING in return for whatever it is she may have. If the puppy has an ice cube, offer a piece of cheese or hot dog. Need a better treat, use roast or lunch meat! The puppy will usually drop whatever she may have to get the delicious food.
> 
> In my opinion the choke chain and leash corrections are not at all necessary here. Outsmart the dog, not correct it into submission.
> 
> ...


I'll keep at it. I worry that if I see signs of her aggression and let them go, like you say, until I can get her to give it up for a treat, that I am letting her get away with it but maybe I am overthinking this.

Her favorite so far as been the cut up kelbassa sausage so I will keep a stock of that cut up and ready as needed. In fact it was the culprit for one of her worst incidents. She got a bag of kelbassa, crackers, and cheese from my daughters school bag and she DID NOT want to give that up for ANYTHING.


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## SashaGirl (Jan 13, 2009)

shortcake23 said:


> She's 17 weeks old now and I find that the combination of those things and her passing the 9 to 13 week old stage helped a lot!


LOOOOOOOOVE this statement!


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

SashaGirl said:


> LOOOOOOOOVE this statement!


Hang in there! It does get better 

And then when they reach teenager phase it gets a little bad again... :doh:

We'll get through it... just think of how cute they are!


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## SashaGirl (Jan 13, 2009)

Thanks everyone! This board has been a huge help. I come here for advice and while my puppy issues don't get magically fixed, I do feel like I CAN and WILL have a happy, healthy and well behaved Golden.... 


SOMEDAY :bowl: :crossfing :bowl:


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

Without a doubt you will. If you have any more questions or concerns feel free to ask!


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## SashaGirl (Jan 13, 2009)

Oh my, this seems to be getting worse, not better.

I am being very consistent with her. Everytime we have an incident, she gets a firm NO, I take her firmly by the collar (scruff if I have to) and walk her to the timeout spot, which is the bathroom and if it happens more than once right after coming out of the bathroom, into the crate for an extended time and we all leave the room.

I bought her a new toy tonight (a ball that gives treats as a surprise as you play) and she loved it but would NOT let us play with her.. not even after we showed her how when we handle it, we can give her treats from it.

Sasha comes out the bathroom - after 30-40 seconds - looking properly chastised but she just turns around and does it again. I am getting very discouraged and worried because I will be leaving for 4 days on business and my husband is not as committed as I am.

How do you go about finding a behaviourist? Do they come into your home to work with you? I see training places in my research but nothing on canine behaviourists???


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## Heidi36oh (Feb 27, 2007)

You're pup is still very young, I think it's still normal puppy behavior. I have a 14 weeks old pup and she was like a piranha for quite some time. She did settle down a little with the biting now. Hand feeding is a good start. What we did is kept telling her over and over and over "NO BITE".
She still tries sometimes but has gotten a lot better about it.
Good Luck, hang in there!


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## shortcake23 (Aug 15, 2008)

Heidi36oh said:


> You're pup is still very young, I think it's still normal puppy behavior. I have a 14 weeks old pup and she was like a piranha for quite some time. She did settle down a little with the biting now. Hand feeding is a good start. What we did is kept telling her over and over and over "NO BITE".
> She still tries sometimes but has gotten a lot better about it.
> Good Luck, hang in there!


I agree with Claudia. And that's what we did as well. Just kept saying "NO BITE", and we'd give her something appropriate for her to chew on. And if she didn't listen, then we'd say "TIME OUT" in a calm voice and put her in the bathroom for a bit.

Takes a while for them to catch on sometimes and calm down.

Like many members have told me when I was going through the same thing as you (or similar) it WILL get better.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Personally, I'd be wondering if this trading is giving this little baby the wrong message. It is true, the more she guards the more treats she gets.

I think trading and that type of thing is good to help a _dog_ not feel threatened. But puppies are whole nother animal. In my opinion they need guidence on the "right" and "wrong" of things. Boundries. They soak up our "messages". What is this message we are giving them by treating them when they guard something?


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Bock said:


> I think you and the puppy would be better off giving her something AMAZING in return for whatever it is she may have. If the puppy has an ice cube, offer a piece of cheese or hot dog. Need a better treat, use roast or lunch meat! The puppy will usually drop whatever she may have to get the delicious food.
> 
> In my opinion the choke chain and leash corrections are not at all necessary here. Outsmart the dog, not correct it into submission.
> 
> ...



Ditto that. And in the meantime, try your best to keep steal-able items out of reach (takes work, but it is possible) and/or keep her crate door closed during the day when she's not in it for a reason so that she can't steal something and run into the crate with it.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Lucky's mom said:


> Personally, I'd be wondering if this trading is giving this little baby the wrong message. It is true, the more she guards the more treats she gets.
> 
> I think trading and that type of thing is good to help a _dog_ not feel threatened. But puppies are whole nother animal. In my opinion they need guidence on the "right" and "wrong" of things. Boundries. They soak up our "messages". What is this message we are giving them by treating them when they guard something?


The problem is, once the item is already stolen, it's a moot point. At that point, you're just trying to get the ALREADY STOLEN ITEM back from the dog in the least confrontational way possible. Hence the trading.

And yes, if you fail to attempt to keep things picked up, you can teach a pattern of steal something - show human I have it - make human trade me for a treat. That's why the bulk of success of training depends on managing the environment so that puppy can't steal things in the first place, and/or watching pup close enough to let them know WHEN YOU SEE THEM START TO GO FOR THE WRONG THING that you don't want them to have it. Once it's already in their mouth, you, the human, have already lost the game. Attempts to use human dominance to get the pup to surrender the item will very often backfire and teach the pup to "fight harder" to keep his ALREADY EARNED PRIZE.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

FlyingQuizini said:


> The problem is, once the item is already stolen, it's a moot point. At that point, you're just trying to get the ALREADY STOLEN ITEM back from the dog in the least confrontational way possible. Hence the trading.
> 
> And yes, if you fail to attempt to keep things picked up, you can teach a pattern of steal something - show human I have it - make human trade me for a treat. That's why the bulk of success of training depends on managing the environment so that puppy can't steal things in the first place, and/or watching pup close enough to let them know WHEN YOU SEE THEM START TO GO FOR THE WRONG THING that you don't want them to have it. Once it's already in their mouth, you, the human, have already lost the game. Attempts to use human dominance to get the pup to surrender the item will very often backfire and teach the pup to "fight harder" to keep his ALREADY EARNED PRIZE.


Well this is one instance where I disagree. I wouldn't use positive means. It sends a confusing message. A 10 week old puppy is a baby and needs a momma to teach...dominate it. I could win the fight against a 10 week old and personally I think a 10 week old wants boundries and isn't prone to a "dogfight" . I don't think taking something away is always a bad thing. It lets the pup know you have power (Something you can get into their head now while you do have the power) Its different if you are talking about a 10 month old....but 10 week olds are like toddlers.

Of course not being there, its hard to know what the guarding issue is all about. But I know it couldn't be handled in a posive manner in my house because keeping socks and tissue paper off the floor is evidently impossible.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

This is a ten week old puppy with baby teeth, so there's no need to be afraid of her. I believe in positive training methods 95 percent, and I do think you should have fun with your pup& create a bond by doing lots of unrelated obedience training with a clicker and awesome value treats, but I think trading for higher value items can be a reward for poor behavior. She's getting feedback that her growling gets a reward. I would not give a possessive puppy a hot dog slice for growling! Try to refocus on the notion that this is a baby dog still, not Cujo. While her behavior upsets you, it's your job to remove as much of the emotion as possible from your reaction and to choose a sensible, calm strategy. If this were my puppy, I would work on my timing and 'tude. This is your house, that is your bone, toy, etc and you are sharing it with her and expect good manners in return. When she grows, very calmly say "NO GROWL" in a low and outraged tone(zero anger), step into her space, and calmly and swiftly take away whatever she has. No negotiation, but no anger or fear. If she does growl, snarl or try to bite, stare at her and say very insistently NO BITE and stay in her space. Then the INSTANT she backs down or the episode is in any way over, change your whole demeanor. Ask her to sit and throw her a party. There needs to be a complete correlation, splitsecond timing between her growling and you becoming dead serious. It's all timing. You are a fun loving entertaining, nuturing wonderful creature again. Do not back down to a tiny fluff who is testing her little will against the world. This is not dominance or dominance theory and you are not dominating the puppy but instead enforcing house rules and responding to her bratty actions with calm but forceful actions of your own. Win five times in a row without showing anything but calm insistence, and see how things feel.


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## agoldenliferanch (Aug 1, 2008)

I agree with Lilly's response above...the one thing I would add though it to take food out of the equation totally for now. I would deal with the food aggression with her meal times and remove all treats from her life at this point. For instance, put her meal down and stand a foot away. Any sign of growlig or aggression over the meal, you step in calmy, remove the bowl with a "growl" of your own, not a yell in anger but more of a statement that you need her to focus on you and pay attention. When the growling stops...you put the bowl back down and start again. Keep repeating until she's finished her meal without guarding it. You might spend an hour getting through the first few meals...but she'll sound realize that if she growls she gets nothing. Please remember their "short term" memory lasts about 15 seconds. Your memory is much longer than hers is. 

As for the treats....discontinue all treats until the meal situation is under control. That goes for any bones as well. Buy her a rope chew or a new stuffy to play with, but no treats until you're confident you've conquered the food issue, IMO. Instead, whenever she does anything the way you want her to, praise, praise, praise her like crazy. Not just with the food issue, but with her other training. All other obedience training will also enforce the notion that you are in control (the alpha) and that all good things (praise, play time, walks) comes from you.


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## SashaGirl (Jan 13, 2009)

I hope you guys are right in that it will get better.

I'm somewhat uncomfortable with the positive treats for growling so I have been avoiding that.
When she has something in her mouth that I think might solicit the gaurding behaviour, I try to distract her, call her away, give her a treat, get the object, give it back to her. I do that a couple times.

If she growls/bites, I go right to the firm NO and time out.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

I agree with Ljilly's statement as well. You don't need to be this mean, domineering person because you are taking away something from the pup. Just take it calmly (protect yourself if you are afraid, don't let her have the upper hand) and tell her a quick, firm 'No.'

I wouldn't worry about her potentially getting possessive of something she has. If it is alright she has it, don't worry about it unless you actually see the bad behavior--then correct it. Give her a chance to be appropriate instead of trying to distract and take away because you 'think' something bad will happen. Know in your mind what is and isn't acceptable for you and then enforce it--not as some big domineering boss but just as the calm and confident leader.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

I would suggest having a 'puppy proof' zone for now, somewhere she can be loose where she's not going to get into schoolbags, find items she'll want to guard and so on. Then, put her on a light leash, so you have control over her if she does try something - if she gets something in her mouth, you can calmly stand above her with the leash fairly tight. So she can't lay there and chew the item, play with it or run off with it. Not so tight her front paws are off the ground and just loose enough so she can breath (have the collar up behind her ears).

At the same time work eye contact - have her in front of you and when she makes eye contact, give her a 'yes' and treat. Work up to her being able to give you that attention for longer and longer. You want to praise and treat her BEFORE she looks away, then take a few steps to the side or back and start it again. Then, when she gets something she's not supposed to have, and you hold her in 'limbo' till she gives up on having it and drops it, you can give her the cue to do attention work instead. And, you can get her to move away from the prized item while giving you attention.

For toys and items of high value that she is allowed to have, put them on a light rope or string, and you keep the other end while she plays. You can play tug with her, but if she starts to get possesive, you stand up and reel the toy up with you, hold her up if need be if she's holding the toy in her mouth. When she lets go, work the attention work game quickly a few times.

The idea is that she first off looses a lot of chances to get 'goodies' that she wants to fight with you about. And when she does get something, you take the leash and hold her in place so she can't enjoy it. When she gives it up you're ready to play an attention game where she has to work for a treat, and if she has any toys they're part of you and she has to use her manners or they get removed and then she has to work for you again before she gets them back.

For while you're gone, have the hubby just do his best, maybe gate off the kitchen and remove anything she can get into so it's easy for him (I want to say 'man proof' but might get in trouble, however with my DH it's what I do - make it as simple as possible and hope for the best). Call wherever you're taking classes and talk to them as well before hand, this may be something a private lesson would work better for. It's hard to do things like raise a puppy over the internet!

Lana


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

Quiz and bender beat me to it. 
For the moment, make sure she doesn't take things. Be on her like white on rice, so to speak, and don't leave her unattended for even 10 seconds.

When you can't watch her put her in an x-pen where she can't get into trouble. 

The other thing we've done is make "sit" the magic word. All good things come to dogs who sit, so when I see her about to do something she shouldn't I say sit, then pet or treat her. She almost defaults to a sit, during which she's focused on me, and not the toilet paper or whatever. 

Good luck on dealing with the actual guarding behavior.
allen


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