# Started Dog



## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

Question for the forum - If someone is selling a started dog what do you think that dog should know? I'm very familiar with Lardy's flowchart so if you could use that when describing what you consider a started dog that would be helpful. Thanks!


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

"Started dog" probably more often than not means a washout. Few people will hear about a dog that is actually "started" and has great potential, at least not before it is sold. What a started dog should know would depend greatly on the age of the dog. 
That said, not all "washouts" are the same either. A fiend of mine recently lost a dog to cancer. She was a "washout" when he got her. In under four years he made her an AFC and qualified for the National Amateur twice.


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

I recently found a "started lab" for my neighbors. He had earned his SH, but was not able to compete at the MH level. They got a really good deal, but I knew both parties and the owner wanted him to go to a good home that would use his training for hunting. I would have considered him more then started.


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> I recently found a "started lab" for my neighbors. He had earned his SH, but was not able to compete at the MH level. They got a really good deal, but I knew both parties and the owner wanted him to go to a good home that would use his training for hunting. I would have considered him more then started.


Okay that is kind of what I'm thinking. In my mind a started dog can pass a Junior Hunter test. That's the level I think of when I think of started dog, but I wanted to see if that was on par with others expectations.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> He had earned his SH, but was not able to compete at the MH level.


This an example of what I consider a washout. 
It is great that the owner was honest about the dog and wanted him to go to a good home. 
The dog could have been sold at "started" with the implication that he was ready for the next level.

The term washout sounds derogatory but one little quirk can sometimes eliminate the dog as a field competitor. Many great service dogs are field trial washouts.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

"Started" dog can vary wildly in interpretation. 
Some people think a dog that is anything older than 8 weeks is "started."
Some people think a QAA dog is "started"!

Personally, I would sell a dog as "started" if they were through basic obedience and force fetch, and running confident marks on land and water. 
"Force fetch" can mean anything also...with the dogs I'm training, I go through FF with ear pinch, then take a little break where we go back and concentrate on marks. Any dropping or mouthing is corrected with an ear pinch. After a little while we return to FF with collar fetch and that goes right into pile work. It's a long process with a lot of steps! Some people might only consider a dog "started" if they are also running blinds!


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

K9-Design said:


> Some people think a QAA dog is "started"!


That should be true but not all of them are.


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

@SRW I'm asking because I will be getting a puppy to raise and sell as a started dog. It's not a washout scenario, I'm not intending to keep this puppy from the get go. In fact, I'm getting the highest drive puppy in a very nice litter. I just want to make sure that when I go to advertise the dog as started that my definition of started is not out of line. But it really sounds like the it can vary so much that I will just need to be specific about where the dog is in training.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

myluckypenny said:


> @SRW I'm asking because I will be getting a puppy to raise and sell as a started dog. It's not a washout scenario, I'm not intending to keep this puppy from the get go. In fact, I'm getting the highest drive puppy in a very nice litter. I just want to make sure that when I go to advertise the dog as started that my definition of started is not out of line. But it really sounds like the it can vary so much that I will just need to be specific about where the dog is in training.


I don't know that there is any standard definition of "started". If you are honest about the dog with perspective buyers, that is all anyone can expect.


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

So I thought I'd give an update to this thread because the scenario did not turn out as planned! 

In 2021, I bought a puppy (Pedigree: Archwind's Bring The Heat) with the intent to raise and sell as a started dog. The reason for that was because I had been on another list for an amazing litter for a girl puppy that would hopefully become my foundation bitch, but that didn't end up happening due to some dead frozen semen. So I was back at square one, there were no litters being planned that interested me, and I had planned my summer around raising a pup. The year before I had raised a puppy for another breeder and really enjoyed it. But because of the rules for amateur vs pro I knew I couldn't raise a puppy for money because that makes me a pro, which I didn't want as I hope to run amateurs in the next couple years. So I figured I'd buy my own puppy and sell later on which didn't violate any amateur rules. 

This brings me to Burn's litter, no females were available so I got a boy. The breeder was totally on board with selling me a puppy and trusted that I'd do right by him when I went to sell him down the road. Don't expect most golden breeders to say yes to this by the way, but I was very up front and transparent about my intentions (and have an established reputation & good references). I thought I'd have no problem selling this pup when the time came because I already had two males and I did NOT need another stud dog. I picked up the little man at 8 weeks and brought him home. It didn't take long for me to fall head over heels for this puppy. I think I told a friend when he was 9 weeks old that this dog "is special"; an insane claim to make at that age but he's just been different since day 1.

Now I'm newer to field trials (I've only run one qual) but I've trained with some truly exceptional dogs (my personal faves are Shooter & Camo if you know labs). But my little golden was turning heads in a good way in my FT club. So I started thinking about my plans for this pup and how could I sell him if he really had as much potential as I suspected? I knew I couldn't, I'd kick myself if I sold this dog only for him to be the real deal. Which made me realize just how true Stan's original statement was - 



SRW said:


> "Started dog" probably more often than not means a washout.


I knew I didn't have a washout and I wanted to see if my suspicions were correct so I decided to keep the boy dog I didn't need and put any breeding plans on hold . We will see where this dog takes me - 

8 week old Burn









5 month Burn









10 Month old Burn @ Waterfowl Widowmaker Retrievers (Highly recommend)









14 Month Burn @ Chapel Hill Retrievers (also highly recommend)


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

I have thought about training and selling started dogs. A truly talented started field trial or even a hunt test retriever can bring a ridiculous amount of money. 
I’m confident that I could get most any well bred retriever to easily pass a senior hunt test by 12 to 14 months old. Lily could’ve done it out 8 to 10 months old but she’s kind of a prodigy and that’s nothing to do with me.
My weakness is the same as Jamie’s. I’m not sure I could ever part with a dog after training it for a year. In fact I’m pretty sure I couldn’t.


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## PalouseDogs (Aug 14, 2013)

Bwahaha. Congratulations on your ”new” puppy. I agree with Stan, even if a dog were a washout, I’m not sure I could part with him after a year of training. I guess the pro-trainers see enough dogs they become less personally attached to individuals.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

PalouseDogs said:


> I guess the pro-trainers see enough dogs they become less personally attached to individuals.


And the dogs aren't theirs to begin with.


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

PalouseDogs said:


> Bwahaha. Congratulations on your ”new” puppy. I agree with Stan, even if a dog were a washout, I’m not sure I could part with him after a year of training. I guess the pro-trainers see enough dogs they become less personally attached to individuals.


I think they still become attached to some of their favorite dogs. The pro I used for Burn’s basics was very sad to see him go home. He still checks in regularly with me to see how he’s doing. And I know the feeling was mutual because Burn absolutely adored him!


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