# Giardia and Probiotics



## Kelly_NC (Apr 13, 2012)

My Banx was diagnosed with Giardia on Friday. The more research I am doing on this the more I am thinking he might have had this since we got him as he has had terrible gas and intermittent "soft" stools. I just thought he had a really sensitive stomach.... I am hoping there is no permanent damage done. I am also reading that along with the meds he is taking, a dog pro-biotic would be a good idea to get his flora back on-track. Can anyone recommend a good pro-biotic? Thanks so much for any help on this topic!


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

My sister's dog had giardia when she first rescued her. It was a pain to get rid of. She started using Missing Link, (vet strength formula), and from around that time, she was clear of it. Maybe a coincidence, but I've heard other great things about it from other people, also.

Vet Products : The Missing Link


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

I sponsor a few rescue dogs a year, mostly Pit and Pit mixes. Many have Giardia. You have to be very careful about what is a probiotic and what is not. Virtually every probiotic product sold is a "fermentation product" not the actual probiotic although there could be some. It is highly unlikely that any viable organism can colonize from "fermentation products" but they have great enzymes. A true Probiotic is a whole viable organism, and the only ones that have been proven to colonize are FortiFlora by Purina and Prostora by Iams. However, unless the food has the right fiber even these won't work.

Any dog with Giardia should be on a food with beet pulp as the fiber. Beet pulp is the only fiber that feeds the good bacteria but doesn't feed the pathogens. It is also very gentle, helps with firmer stools and kind of scrubs the digestive tract clean.

There are a few real clinical studies that showed probiotics did not help at all with Giardia.


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

WasChampionFan said:


> I sponsor a few rescue dogs a year, mostly Pit and Pit mixes. Many have Giardia. You have to be very careful about what is a probiotic and what is not. Virtually every probiotic product sold is a "fermentation product" not the actual probiotic although there could be some. It is highly unlikely that any viable organism can colonize from "fermentation products" but they have great enzymes. A true Probiotic is a whole viable organism, and the only ones that have been proven to colonize are FortiFlora by Purina and Prostora by Iams. However, unless the food has the right fiber even these won't work.
> 
> Any dog with Giardia should be on a food with beet pulp as the fiber. Beet pulp is the only fiber that feeds the good bacteria but doesn't feed the pathogens. It is also very gentle, helps with firmer stools and kind of scrubs the digestive tract clean.
> 
> There are a few real clinical studies that showed probiotics did not help at all with Giardia.


You just gave me the answer i have been wondering about "beet Pulp"!!! my great dane had giardia was on meds and then stool sample showed the bacteria was still there so he was on flagyl for a week. his stool is pretty normal but still mushy inside..I have been reading alot about Beet Pulp. He eats Precise Holistic and no beetpulp so i was going to switch to Precise Plus which has beet pulp dried in it. is this a good idea? i like the thought of beetpulp while i know people say no to it..your thoughts. also i give him Digestive Enzymes from Natures Farmacy.. worth it to use or no?


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I go to walmart and buy their probiotic. I gave it to mine 2 hours after each dose of Flagyl. 

I dont really care for beet pulp. A good probiotic daily would work just as well IMO


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

I just use regular acidophilus (found in yogurt for mine) after antibiotics or a bout of GI problem. 

My friend tried all the actual doggie probitics for her lab/pit rescue mix who had Guardia when she got her- None of them worked. She went to a holistic vet who said to try Greek yogurt. It worked like a charm for her girl.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

oakleysmommy said:


> You just gave me the answer i have been wondering about "beet Pulp"!!! my great dane had giardia was on meds and then stool sample showed the bacteria was still there so he was on flagyl for a week. his stool is pretty normal but still mushy inside..I have been reading alot about Beet Pulp. He eats Precise Holistic and no beetpulp so i was going to switch to Precise Plus which has beet pulp dried in it. is this a good idea? i like the thought of beetpulp while i know people say no to it..your thoughts. also i give him Digestive Enzymes from Natures Farmacy.. worth it to use or no?


I was just reading Lincoln's comment on Beet Pulp. This is a case of a regular person that simply is dead wrong and refuses to accept what studies have shown for 25 years. "I don't care for beet pulp" LOL

1) Buterwick, Maxwell. The effect of level and source of dietary fiber on 
food intake in the dog. Journal of Nutrition 1994 Vol. 124 

2 Collins MD, Gibson Dr. Nutritional modulation of microbial ecology. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 1998 

3. Hallman JE, Moxley RA, et al. Cellulose, beet pulp and pectin/gum arabic effects on canine microstructure and histopathology. Veterinary Clinical Nutrition 1995;2:137-141 

4. Albert s. Townshend DVM, Wellness for Life, Am Journal of Clinical 
Nutrition 2000

These are clinical studies on beet pulp. They are a good read. They all say the same thing, beet pulp is the perfect source of fiber.

The world is filled with arm-chair nutritionists that simply don't know what they are talking about.


*"Beet pulp has been found to be an ideal source of moderately fermentable fiber. Fiber sources such as cellulose, bentonite, peanut hulls or soy bean hulls are poor sources because they are not very fermentable. The correct amount and type of fiber is necessary for a normal healthy digestive tract. There are bacteria in the normal healthy digestive track. These bacteria have the ability to ferment or digest certain types of fiber. The ideal fiber is partially fermentable or digestible, i.e., beet pulp. We want some fiber left to provide that bulk to the stool that is necessary for a healthy digestive system, but we also want some of the fiber to be digested by the bacteria. 1*

*Beet pulp in a diet encourages colonization of those bacteria which best ferment or digest that form of fiber and discourage those organisms which do not effectively ferment fiber. It so happens that many good bacteria that commonly inhabit the large intestines can deal with beet pulp ( Lactobacillus acidophilus and Enterococcus faecium are just two) and many pathogenic bacteria are not supported by its presence (Clostridium sp.,Salmonella sp. and e. coli)2.*

*Because beet pulp is an ideal food source for these good bacteria, they tend to overgrow potentially bad bacteria (pathogens and gas producers) and make the gut much more resistant to these harmful organisms. As a result of this digestive or fermentation process, vital nutrients called short chain fatty acids are produced which provide superior nutrition to the cells lining the large intestine enhancing their ability to function.These short chain fatty acids (SCFA) are the key to a healthy and efficient digestive tract. The cells that line the intestinal track feed voraciously on SCFA. These cells have a high turnover rate and rely on SCFA to provide adequate nutrition. 3*

*That portion of beet pulp left after the fermentation of bacterial digestive process promotes ideal nutrient digestibility. The volume of stool is not excessive thus allowing the motility of the gut to move the nutrients along at a rate which assures maximum digestion and absorption.4*


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

They could say the exact same about Pineapple. That contains a very good digestive enzyme called Bromalein (sp?) but you dont see people running around to clear the stores of pineapples to feed their dogs . I dont really care what a study tells me. Just because you can site something to back your theory up doesnt mean I will agree with it.

You can tell me that eating arsenic in tiny forms is safe but that doesnt mean I will run out and eat it.

Those same people you quote in your studies are likely the same people who recommend you feed Science Diet..in my books that ruins any credibility they held by recommending you feed a bag of chicken feed to a Carnivore.

You come on this forum, with the username you have chosen, which you are on a couple other forums for which you have been banned from. Dont even bother to introduce yourself in the introduction section then persist to come on here in every single post you make you bash Champion Pet Foods and recommend whatever it is that you feed. Im sure I am not the only one who has noticed this


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Lincoln_16 said:


> They could say the exact same about Pineapple. That contains a very good digestive enzyme called Bromalein (sp?) but you dont see people running around to clear the stores of pineapples to feed their dogs . I dont really care what a study tells me. Just because you can site something to back your theory up doesnt mean I will agree with it.
> 
> You can tell me that eating arsenic in tiny forms is safe but that doesnt mean I will run out and eat it.
> 
> ...


Blah Blah, that is the accepted science on the matter. Just accept it.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Blah Blah and my crap dont stink. 

I hope you get banned from this forum like you did all the others. First you raid my thread with your Champion Pet Foods spanter then you raid this one


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Lincoln_16 said:


> Blah Blah and my crap dont stink.
> 
> I hope you get banned from this forum like you did all the others. First you raid my thread with your Champion Pet Foods spanter then you raid this one


Sure, just admit you are wrong about beet pulp. When I say something I back it up. If you don't want to agree with facts then maybe you need help. The information I provided was intended for the OP.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Im not going to admit your right because IMO your not. Anyone can google and find information to sway in the way they want to believe. Just like I could find articles that state neutering is unhealthy and you can find articles that say neutering is healthy. 

You came on here with one mission, to disrespect and parrot for another food company and anyone who doesnt agree with you is your enemy. 

Oh....I found the word im looking for...Troll.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Lincoln_16 said:


> Im not going to admit your right because IMO your not. Anyone can google and find information to sway in the way they want to believe. Just like I could find articles that state neutering is unhealthy and you can find articles that say neutering is healthy.
> 
> You came on here with one mission, to disrespect and parrot for another food company and anyone who doesnt agree with you is your enemy.
> 
> Oh....I found the word im looking for...Troll.


Ok why don't you show me hard scientific data to support your view.

It amazes me that people like you with absolutely no background think you are right. It is shocking.

I have no relation to any company. Everything I have said has been backed up.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

WasChampionFan said:


> Ok why don't you show me hard scientific data to support your view.
> 
> It amazes me that people like you with absolutely no background think you are right. It is shocking.
> 
> I have no relation to any company. Everything I have said has been backed up.


If that makes you sleep at night . You have no idea my background. You came onto this forum as many others to bash certain foods and promote "Annamaet". You call people stupid, tell people they need help. Your a very rude person and I hope the moderators of this forum see that and deal with you. I received an email from Champion Pet Foods today and am quiet impressed with her details explanations. 

Now I will just shove the towel in my mouth before something worse comes out and I get banned


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## Maddie'sMom2011 (Apr 26, 2011)

Ok, there's this one:

*This is a case of a regular person that simply is dead wrong and refuses to accept what studies have shown for 25 years.

*Then this:


*Blah Blah, that is the accepted science on the matter. Just accept it.*Finally:

*It amazes me that people like you with absolutely no background think you are right. It is shocking.

*A regular person & people like you...what does that mean?


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Maddie'sMom2011 said:


> Ok, there's this one:
> 
> *This is a case of a regular person that simply is dead wrong and refuses to accept what studies have shown for 25 years.
> 
> ...


Simple, the issue is why beet pulp is the best source of fiber in a kibble. This has been established by published scientists and nutritionists in specific detail. It is scientific fact that good bacteria live in the fiber but bad pathogenic bacteria cannot. This is science not opinion. Four published studies were provide by 4 different sources, besides it is well known anyway.

When someone without any scientific credentials disagrees just because that is how they feel, it is just foolishness.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

WasChampionFan said:


> Simple, the issue is why beet pulp is the best source of fiber in a kibble. This has been established by published scientists and nutritionists in specific detail. It is scientific fact that good bacteria live in the fiber but bad pathogenic bacteria cannot. This is science not opinion. Four published studies were provide by 4 different sources, besides it is well known anyway.
> 
> When someone without any scientific credentials disagrees just because that is how they feel, it is just foolishness.


It is an opinion of which I am entitled to. You can prove to me all you want that beet pulp holds healthy bacteria but not bad...and thats fine. But that doesnt mean I am going to say I think it has its place in pet food.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

I would recommend Optagest or Nature's Farmacy Digestive Enzymes.

WasChampionFan, your condescending tone is unnecessary.


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## MelMcGarry (May 2, 2010)

CarolinaCasey said:


> I would recommend Optagest or Nature's Farmacy Digestive Enzymes.
> 
> WasChampionFan, your condescending tone is unnecessary.


I agree with CarolinaCasey. I believe that this is the first time I have read one of WasChampionFan's posts. Heaven forbid that I should ever voice an opinion that didn't match his or hers. Sheesh.


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