# Retrieving!



## Sivin (Nov 23, 2006)

Hi,

I wasn't certain where to put this since it's not about training but it is related. Our late golden, Jodie, wasn't into retrieving at all. She never developed any interest in it and would humor us by halfheartedly going back and forth maybe four times. It just wasn't her thing. I do remember her breeder telling us that some puppies seem to retrieve from birth.

Cara, on the othe hand, loves to retrieve. We never had to teach her. She just knew how and often approaches us for a game of retrieve. 

Granted, they are called "retrievers," but how much of this is genetic, how much instinctive, how much learned? All very interesting, I think!

Thanks,
Helaine


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## potatolover (Jan 12, 2007)

My 11-year-old is not really into retrieving too. He obliges for a few times, then loses interests completely. He used to enjoy it more when he was a puppy, but most probably because he enjoyed a 'tug of war' game with me when he brought back the tennis ball!!not that he's hoping I can throw the ball again.

I don't think it's a big problem though.My dog enjoys other games, esp the 'sniff a treat' game - he stays put in a corner of a room, then I hide a treat somewhere and he just sniff it out.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Cosmo will fetch balls to a certain degree...but more to chase after Samson than to actually get the ball. I think he's learning to like it more.

Samson LOVES his tennis balls and would go nonstop, if we let him. He wants us to throw them over and over and over.

We also play the "Sniff the Treat" game, but we didn't have a name for it. But Samson does better if we hide his tennis balls. It's amazing how good their noses can be....


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## jeffreyzone (Feb 8, 2006)

Dottie is a retrieving machine. She fetches the weekly promotional newspaper every Thursday afternoon, and she loves to run the mail from the mailbox to the house---she'll take it from me (or Karen or the mailman) at the box and run it to Karen (or me). She loves frisbee, and of course she loves to retrieve toys, both in land and water.

She helps with the laundry by taking dirty clothes down to the laundry room; we just fold up a pair of jeans or a shirt and send her. She takes items such as empty milk jugs to the recycle bin. She has carried notes from Karen, who was located on the main floor, to me, when I was located on the second floor.

Sometimes, Karen will give Dottie a few crisp twenty-dollar bills to take to me. I love it when my Golden brings me money!!! 

We have videotape of Dottie carrying crutches up the stairs for Karen; this was during a time when Karen was recovering from foot surgery, and Dottie's work saved me many trips down the stairs.

It seems like she has a natural enthusiasm for carrying things, and this translates into a good work ethic when it comes to retrieves are deliveries. It is fun to watch her work, and it's easy to see that Dottie gets a lot of satisfaction from working.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

_Granted, they are called "retrievers," but how much of this is genetic, how much instinctive, how much learned? All very interesting, I think!

Thanks,
Helaine_

Certainly retrieving is genetic....as to how what percentage???....No expert here...

Retrieving can be taught and many _non-retrievers _come to really enjoy it as a fun game and pasttime...they are on the mid to lower end of the specturm... 
Then there are dogs that are retrieving fools...have the desire from their breeding - they are hardwired to retrieve....they are _miserable_ if they cant retrieve.... they are on the high side of the spectrum.......IMHO there is really no way to 'train' _that kind _of very intense drive....

I personally like a dog in the middle leaning toward the high side...as I like the energy and intensity....In Goldens, I use the 'drive' to retrieve as a reward/incentive to teach/learn new things...they get what they need (to retreve)...I get what I want (well behaved dog)....

The very very intense require alot of dedication, time and training....it would be like having a child that was a musical cevant and now allowing them to listen to music...anyone can see it would be just wrong...

REgards,
Mary


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

I think some of it might have to do with very early learning also--if you don't know much about retrievers and never teach the game to them (which takes about 5 minutes) they are never exposed to it. 

I have seen many adult fosters who knew nothing of water or chasing a ball. They did like chasing Julie though, when she wanted to get away from them with her ball she would/will--go sit in her pool...lol. Lots of times the dogs look at her --like omg you are not doing that--it does not take long before they are doing it too. But--they dont share the same love for it she does.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

It's very genetic IMO. My Golden was never played with or touched until four months of age. When I got him, he was shy and nervous. He didn't know what to do with toys I handed him, but as soon as I tossed the ball, he ran after it, slowly brought it back, and then it's like a light went on. He has been an obsessed retrieving fool ever since, and will retrieve anything, anywhere, regardless of any distractions. He doesn't even notice other dogs approaching him if he's retrieving.

You can certainly encourage the behavior in a dog with less natural drive, though.


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## Buffy & Abby's Mom (Nov 27, 2005)

Buffy loves & lives to retrieve. She falls into the category of "miserable" if she doesn't have a ball game at least once a day, preferably several times a day. When she was a puppy, she'd go til she dropped basically. Abby, who we got at 10 months, doesn't like to retrieve. Her game is "take away from Buffy" and then the chase is on. 

I'm not sure if it's all genetics. I think it's a combination. I started playing fetch with Buffy when she was 6 weeks old. Of course, with Abby I didn't. And her previous owners didn't either, because they neglected her and just let her run wild on the farm.

So like NJB, I think it's very early learning also.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

PS on the genetic side of things... it took two years of dedication and experienced training to teach my Whippet to bring back a stuffed toy in the house, and he still wouldn't ever retrieve anything outdoors or at a show. He thinks it's stupid. You can see it in his eyes. "If you wanted the darn thing, why did you throw it over there, you moron."

On the other hand, this dog is undefeated on the coursing field.

Our dogs have powerful drives, and they're wonderful to work with.


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> It's very genetic IMO. My Golden was never played with or touched until four months of age. When I got him, he was shy and nervous. He didn't know what to do with toys I handed him, but as soon as I tossed the ball, he ran after it, slowly brought it back, and then it's like a light went on. He has been an obsessed retrieving fool ever since, and will retrieve anything, anywhere, regardless of any distractions. He doesn't even notice other dogs approaching him if he's retrieving.
> 
> You can certainly encourage the behavior in a dog with less natural drive, though.


I totally agree with you--I do wonder having worked with some older dogs that were clueless if there is not a time frame for learning new skills--like an opportunity for hardwiring that passes--or rather learning to love it. WE can sure teach them to do it--but the love of it is another thing. My best guess is it is not the same in all dogs. Some yes--some no. 

I remember when I was at Cosmo's house picking him up--the male owner showed me his version of retrieve--he um--would walk across the yard--put a ball down--come back to Cosmo and tell him to go find it. 

I think their might be some neuropathways that are formed when they are young--a combination of genes and environment. 

Just a thought...


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

But there IS a reason sighthounds are 'above' games like fetch, and Goldens live for them- and it's beyond early shaping. Those sighthounds that DO learn to retrieve are generally clicker trained with food. This wouldn't work for mine because he doesn't like food. He has zero interest in treats, toys, or praise. He doesn't care about anything except sleeping and running the lure twice a year- and THAT is what makes sighthounds lousey for obedience. Where as Goldens are, genetically, motivated by food, toys, praise... and therefore, are very trainable. It goes hand in hand. They're not smarter, they just WANT things, and are willing to 'work' for what they want.

On the other hand- early shaping is very important for dogs in so many ways, too. You can really mold what IS there at birth. For example, almost all Whippets are outstanding lure coursers, but those conditioned early are generally better.


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

Tucker's version of retrieving is me throwing his ball, him chasing it, bringing it back about a foot away from me, then running off with it everytime I try to take it from him so it turns into a chase game...lol.


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> But there IS a reason sighthounds are 'above' games like fetch, and Goldens live for them- and it's beyond early shaping. Those sighthounds that DO learn to retrieve are generally clicker trained with food. This wouldn't work for mine because he doesn't like food. He has zero interest in treats, toys, or praise. He doesn't care about anything except sleeping and running the lure twice a year- and THAT is what makes sighthounds lousey for obedience. Where as Goldens are, genetically, motivated by food, toys, praise... and therefore, are very trainable. It goes hand in hand. They're not smarter, they just WANT things, and are willing to 'work' for what they want.
> 
> On the other hand- early shaping is very important for dogs in so many ways, too. You can really mold what IS there at birth. For example, almost all Whippets are outstanding lure coursers, but those conditioned early are generally better.


Agreed. I am sure we could teach a golden to heard--but they would not love it like a border collie. Learning it and loving it are not the same slice of pie. 

But I am preaching to the choir...will shut up.


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## Sivin (Nov 23, 2006)

Thank you all for your comments. We got Cara as an eight-week-old and never taught her to retrieve. She just did it naturally. A friend has a little white "princess" dog. The breed sounds like CotonToureodor-something, a very pretty little dog. She told me she "must" have a retrieving breed in her because she does it naturally too!
Helaine


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

LOL don't shut up. This is my Saturday morning entertainment


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Actually, I'd guess that those little white puffballs might have poodle in them. And poodles are natural retrievers. They are gundogs originally.


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## greg bell (May 24, 2005)

it is why you have field lines.... you want those dogs that first and foremost have an intense desire to retrieve and that love birds... 
you need that intense desire because of the difficult retrieves they are required to make.. several hundred yards and multiple birds.. it gets pretty tough and you need a dog that really wants it... 
and has the physical tools to do it well.. you can get a german shepherd to fetch a tennis ball, but to do the stuff that is really retrieving...u need a retriever..


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

greg bell said:


> it is why you have field lines.... you want those dogs that first and foremost have an intense desire to retrieve and that love birds...
> you need that intense desire because of the difficult retrieves they are required to make.. several hundred yards and multiple birds.. it gets pretty tough and you need a dog that really wants it...
> and has the physical tools to do it well.. you can get a german shepherd to fetch a tennis ball, but to do the stuff that is really retrieving...u need a retriever..


That is my point about just doing it and really loving it--I still think we should research the breed before we get one and learn to help them achieve what they were born to do, from the earliest age possible.


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## Gldiebr (Oct 10, 2006)

My two are exceptions to all the rules. Moose the MinPin/Italian Greyhound (sighthound) mix grew up with Sandy, our Golden, and played with our neighbor's GSD, Maggie. By the time he was 3 months old, he was retrieving non-stop, and loved out-herding the herding dog. With his speed, he could always win.

Along comes Bailey, our current golden. With Moose's speed and agility, she can't beat him to the ball, so she doesn't have any interest in it. He has, however, taught her to herd. So I have a herding retriever.  

Whatever their talents, they sure make this house a home!


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

Gldiebr said:


> My two are exceptions to all the rules. Moose the MinPin/Italian Greyhound (sighthound) mix grew up with Sandy, our Golden, and played with our neighbor's GSD, Maggie. By the time he was 3 months old, he was retrieving non-stop, and loved out-herding the herding dog. With his speed, he could always win.
> 
> Along comes Bailey, our current golden. With Moose's speed and agility, she can't beat him to the ball, so she doesn't have any interest in it. He has, however, taught her to herd. So I have a herding retriever.
> 
> Whatever their talents, they sure make this house a home!


That would be really interesting to watch--: 

What that reinforces IMHO is how strong of pack animals dogs are--


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

Sivin said:


> Thank you all for your comments. We got Cara as an eight-week-old and never taught her to retrieve. She just did it naturally. A friend has a little white "princess" dog. The breed sounds like CotonToureodor-something, a very pretty little dog. She told me she "must" have a retrieving breed in her because she does it naturally too!
> Helaine


I believe you're thinking of Coton De Tulear 

They're a breed that likes to swim and play, and will often follow their masters on horseback for many miles 

They do well in agility trials, and playing catch


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

njb said:


> I think some of it might have to do with very early learning also--if you don't know much about retrievers and never teach the game to them (which takes about 5 minutes) they are never exposed to it.
> 
> I have seen many adult fosters who knew nothing of water or chasing a ball. They did like chasing Julie though, when she wanted to get away from them with her ball she would/will--go sit in her pool...lol. Lots of times the dogs look at her --like omg you are not doing that--it does not take long before they are doing it too. But--they dont share the same love for it she does.






As to water....Ive seen that too...Lexi will run to the pool to escape...."you wanna piece of me...youre gonna have to get wet!" 
Liberty will turn up her nose....silly dog...

Also dogsat (word?) a friend's Golden that loved to bounce his own ball and catch it on the bounce...he would walk around the house all day long drop-bounce-catch..drop-bounce-catch...
When they called I asked when he learned to catch his own tennis balls - they said "he doesn't have any tennis balls". <<WHAT???>> Needless to say he went home with a PILE of them!


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

Oh that is too funny! Now that is a dog born to retrieve!


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## greg bell (May 24, 2005)

LibertyME said:


> _Granted, they are called "retrievers," but how much of this is genetic, how much instinctive, how much learned? All very interesting, I think!
> 
> Thanks,
> Helaine_
> ...


people are training those very intense dogs all over the country every day to a very very high level...


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## Leo's Mom (Feb 27, 2006)

I think that it is genetic and the nature of the breed but there is personal doggie desire and training. Leo's Mom and Dad are obsessive about retrieving and they have loved water since the first time they got in. However, Leo is not all that thrilled about retreiving even when Cheena and Maddy are involved and he was terrified of water until I took the time to work with him. Leo is from field line that were true working dogs.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

The MAJORITY of retrievers (and this includes the Labs) I see/meet down at the dog park do NOT retrieve... and most especially the Goldens. I would venture a guess of less than 10% of the Goldens there actually retrieve to any degree... and at the park my Sidney is THE most persistent and driven of any of the Goldens I've seen there (although there are a few Labs there that can match Sid's same intensity). Sidney didn't start retrieving until rather 'late in life'... like about a year in age. In the house, he would retrieve as a puppy but outdoors, he was the classic 'run, get it, then play keep away', which many people are familiar with. So I used that trait as the basis for my favorite joke at the time... Someone will ask "Isn't that a Golden Retriever?" and I would respond "Well... not exactly, so far he's only been a Golden Receiver."... and that would always get a big laugh because so many people either have or have had a 'receiver dog' and can relate. However, at about a year of age, it was so sudden, like a 'switch had been thrown' in Sidney's head, he became this retrieving maniac... to the point where it scares me sometimes as it can seem to border on some kind of canine mental illness. Once a kid threw a rock into a lake and Sidney immediately went in after it... he just kept diving again and again, trying to retrieve that exact rock... and the bottom of the lake was nothing but rocks! I finally had to go in and physically haul him out, he was going nutz... like some one who has an obsessive/compulsive disorder. Another time his tennis ball had split itself enough to take on water and sink... I had just thrown it about 150-feet off-shore into Lake Michigan (a Chuck-It launching). I could NOT call Sidney off of that retrieve... he just kept diving down into what was probably 8-10 feet of water searching through the shifting sand at the bottom for THAT tennis ball. I even went back to the car to get another tennis ball and a frisbee... nothing I did would stop him until finally, to my amazement he actually came up with THE BALL! and only after inspecting it did I determine it had split and filled with water.

I'll bet I've seen more Boxers who will continuously retrieve than Goldens. And I've watched people coming into the park with their Labs who refuse to bring in retrieving toys to the park in a vain attempt to make their 'maniac retrieving' dogs more interested in other dogs and to 'play'... doesn't work, these 'natural retriever' dogs will just steal the toys thrown out for the other retrievers. So I've got to believe the whole 'retrieve thing' is almost purely genetics driven... you can teach a dog to retrieve sure but I don't believe any amount of training or treats can make a dog enjoy it... they've got to be born with it in their genes.


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## AtticusJordie (Aug 15, 2006)

Jeffreyzone--

Really enjoyed the post about Dottie. I'd love to be a fly on the wall and watch all her antics. And I'd LOVE to teach our two to carry dirty laundry over to the washing machine--but they'd probably pass out from the smell.............

SJ


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

I said in my first post that Cosmo doesn't care as much about chasing tennis balls.....but I do feel that he's learning some from Samson. Cosmo can now catch a tennis ball in the air when I toss it to him... Same with treats. He couldn't (or wouldn't) do that when we first got him.

But I think a good retrieving dog being around can teach another how to be a better retriever...


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## jeffreyzone (Feb 8, 2006)

AtticusJordie said:


> Jeffreyzone--
> 
> Really enjoyed the post about Dottie. I'd love to be a fly on the wall and watch all her antics. And I'd LOVE to teach our two to carry dirty laundry over to the washing machine--but they'd probably pass out from the smell.............
> 
> SJ


Thanks! It is a pleasure to interact with Dottie. Your two may surprise you with the dirty laundry---dogs love that kind of thing.


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

jeffreyzone said:


> Thanks! It is a pleasure to interact with Dottie. Your two may surprise you with the dirty laundry---dogs love that kind of thing.


I would love to train mine to STAY out of the dirty laundry--


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## jeffreyzone (Feb 8, 2006)

Good point! Barrington is our laundry sorter. But he usually scrabbles it all over the place, without any particular system!


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## njb (Oct 5, 2006)

I would not really care about the laundry if they did not manage to take underwear out in the yard every single time--it gets pretty embarrassing chasing down a dog with your undergarments hanging out of their mouth...OF COURSE..they only do it on days my neighbor is out working in the yard....

It is a plot--it has to be....


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## koko0830 (Nov 13, 2006)

jeffreyzone said:


> Dottie is a retrieving machine. She fetches the weekly promotional newspaper every Thursday afternoon, and she loves to run the mail from the mailbox to the house---she'll take it from me (or Karen or the mailman) at the box and run it to Karen (or me). She loves frisbee, and of course she loves to retrieve toys, both in land and water.
> 
> She helps with the laundry by taking dirty clothes down to the laundry room; we just fold up a pair of jeans or a shirt and send her. She takes items such as empty milk jugs to the recycle bin. She has carried notes from Karen, who was located on the main floor, to me, when I was located on the second floor.
> 
> ...



How do you train him to get the newspaper? I really want to teach my dog!


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## jeffreyzone (Feb 8, 2006)

We started out with little steps. Dottie has the typical Golden love of carrying things in her mouth, so we started by giving her something, like a piece of mail, and sending her to each other with a "Take it to Mom!" or "Take it to Dad!" command. When we started, the receiving person was just a few feet away, and when she delivered the item, we both went crazy praising her.

This game was twist on the recall game we'd played with her in which two people call the dog back and forth between them, so it was easy for Dottie to transfer the idea.

And because she was already familiar with hide-n-seek, it was natural for her to take off and find the receiving person when we began to raise the bar by having the receiver be out of her sight.

The game continued to the mailbox, where I'd give her a piece of mail and tell her to "Take it to Mom," who'd be standing at the top of the driveway. This evolved into Dottie's taking the mail into the house and upstairs to the receiving person.

Karen decided to take Dottie down to wait for the mailman one day. The mailman was happy to hand Dottie the mail, and then Karen sent Dottie to the house. Since then, Karen has sent Dottie to see the mailman when he stops his truck at the mailbox. She takes the mail from him and joyfully brings it to Karen.

We'd worked with targets in agility, so it was natural to point out the newspaper as a target. And since it is out there in the driveway, close to the mailbox, Dottie quickly figured out that she is supposed to get it and bring it back. 

One day, she decided to retrieve a bag containing two phonebooks...I gave her the option of whether to get it, and it was quite a sight to see her dragging that bag up the driveway. She loves the work.

So, it all starts with little steps. I guess Dottie was four years old before we had the confidence to send her down the driveway, toward the street, to get the newspaper. So, this takes time and consistency, but once your dog gets the basic concepts, he (or she) can and will retrieve most anything you ask.

With a few of our foster dogs, I've had the new family members tell me that the dog is picking up the TV remote or the cell phone or some other inappropriate item. I always tell them that the dog is giving them a perfect training opportuity; just be ready to trade a chew toy or a treat for whatever the dog picks up, and soon your dog will be bringing you beers or cash or mail or whatever. 

Good luck! Please keep us posted.


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## StephP (Oct 31, 2006)

Thanks for this thread! We have a 5 mth old Golden who seems to have a pretty strong retrieving instinct. We previously had a Sheltie, a herding breed, so we were used to the circling, nipping at heels etc. But this retrieving is funny to watch. Jake has to have something in his mouth at all times, preferably something soft and chewable. He loves our boys' socks and stuffed animals, although he doesn't really chew them, just holds them in his mouth. It's amazing how gentle he is with something that isn't "his". He'll happily bring something to us and have a look on his face like "Look what I found!!".

-Stephanie


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## Katiesmommy (Sep 10, 2006)

I was starting to think Katie would never retrieve. This past week or so she has prooved me wrong. She brings me socks, her soft plush squeeky bone, Nylabone and her fuzzy bear (big teddy bear) and then lays down right by our feet til we toss them and then she returns back to us.


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## jeffreyzone (Feb 8, 2006)

Amy, you and StephP are both on your way to having your dogs help out with the chores. It's great to see these dogs in action!


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## StephP (Oct 31, 2006)

jeffreyzone said:


> Amy, you and StephP are both on your way to having your dogs help out with the chores. It's great to see these dogs in action!


If only it was that easy!!


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## audreyannlow (Mar 5, 2007)

Any dog can be taught to go through the retrieving motions, but a properly bred Golden Retriever does it instinctively, enthusiastically, as though he lives and breathes to find that bird! Even a lot of irresponsibly bred dogs, such as my rescued boy, have these instincts. Goldens have become very popular as non-retrieving, submissive, soft, not-so-confident house-pets, etc., and the "average" golden is no longer a true retriever. Sure, they'll fetch the newspaper, do the laundry, deliver messages, and all that, but they wouldn't search for birds all day long through varied terrain and icy waters. Sort of like how so many GSDs have become more "police dog" than sheep tending dog. :no: Sad, I know.


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