# Is there a conflict of interest with veterinarian's recommending Hill's Science Diet?



## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Vet Clinics are like any other Business, they are in Business to make a profit. Most Vet Clinics fall into the Small Business category, which means, that is how the Vet earns their livelihood and supports their family.

It's common practice for Vets to mark up products they sell such as, dog food, HW meds and Flea/tick preventatives, etc.

When a Vet recommends a Prescription dog food such as Hill's Science Diet Prescription or Royal Canin Prescription food, it's to treat a medical problem and these formulas are usually more expensive.

My Vet Clinic has never recommended a particular brand of Dog Food.


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## chloe_ (Jun 18, 2020)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> Vet Clinics are like any other Business, they are in Business to make a profit. Most Vet Clinics fall into the Small Business category, which means, that is how the Vet earns their livelihood and supports their family.


I like my Vet so I actually go out of my way to buy my tick/flea medicine (for more $$$) at his office to show my support. I wish my Vet sold Purina Pro as well because I'd probably buy my dog food from him too!



CAROLINA MOM said:


> When a Vet recommends a Prescription dog food such as Hill's Science Diet Prescription or Royal Canin Prescription food, it's to treat a medical problem and these formulas are usually more expensive.


I'd hope that many, if not most Vet's, would act in a similar manner! I just found it interesting that Colgate had/has a marketing strategy that specifically involves Vet's to sell it's products in a similar way that pharmaceuticals companies would incentivize doctors to prescribe their drugs. Vet's are, after all, human...and it's human nature to be tempted by money.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

chloe_ said:


> I'd hope that many, if not most Vet's, would act in a similar manner! I just found it interesting that Colgate had/has a marketing strategy that specifically involves Vet's to sell it's products in a similar way that pharmaceuticals companies would incentivize doctors to prescribe their drugs. Vet's are, after all, human...and it's human nature to be tempted by money.


It's not a question of being tempted by money. As Carolina Mom noted, most vets are small businesses. It costs literally hundreds of thousands of dollars to set up a vet business. The equipment they need to function is incredibly expensive. They need a huge inventory of medications on hand, and that is also expensive. And they need staff - technicians, receptionists, etc. All these things have to be paid for even before a customer sets foot in the office, and even before they themselves can receive a salary. Like any small business, vets need income to pay their overheads and the bank loans used to set up the business in the first place. Selling food is one source of income. If they didn't sell food, they would have to charge more for their services, to earn the same amount of income.

Every single vet I know (and I know a few of them) is concerned only about the well-being of the animals they see. They aren't there to grab their customers' money and would never recommend a food or a drug or a treatment if it wasn't absolutely necessary. And not only that - they would be literally heartbroken if their customers thought they would be swayed by a corporate gift to do anything other than the best thing for their patients.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

My vet had us switch my elderly cats to a kidney diet like 4 or 5 years ago. I originally bought a starter bag from them but found it cheaper online and that's who I ended up buying from going forward. The need for the kidney diet never changed just cause I wasn't purchasing from the vet. So while it's understandable that vet offices have mark ups on products, I don't think they are getting "kickbacks" or rewards from prescription diet manufacturers. And FWIW there isn't just Science Diet. Royal Canine has a prescription diet too. Most vets will carry one or the other.


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## chloe_ (Jun 18, 2020)

ceegee said:


> Every single vet I know (and I know a few of them) is concerned only about the well-being of the animals they see. They aren't there to grab their customers' money and would never recommend a food or a drug or a treatment if it wasn't absolutely necessary. And not only that - they would be literally heartbroken if their customers thought they would be swayed by a corporate gift to do anything other than the best thing for their patients.


I hope I don't offend you as I don't mean to be offensive, but I think these statements come off as a little naive. If your statements were true, Banfield Pet Hospitals wouldn't be so controversial. I'm not saying Banfield is representative of the industry, but instead, I'm just giving an example how financial incentives can conflict with the best interests of a patient.

Vet's selling a specific food reminds me of a college professor that used a specific textbook for his class. It turned out that the guy wrote the freaking book! 🤣


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I think it is fine for a vet's office to sell dog and cat food. Many of these companies are the only prescription diets, and many dogs need prescription food. Selling regular food, who cares? 40% markup is less than most retail outlets.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Banfield is owned by Mars Inc., it's one of the many companies Mars, Inc owns, in other words they are part of a large corporation vs. an individually owned Vet Clinic. 

Banfield Clinics are in over 1K PetSmart locations.


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

When my dog needed special food I was glad the vet had some in stock so she could start on it immediately. When that dog died my vet's office happily took open bags of various special diet and small breed food to share with people who needed it. It would never occur to them that passing on the food would lose them a sale.


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## SoCalEngr (Apr 11, 2020)

chloe_ said:


> I came across an old Wall Street Journal article from 1997 (Colgate Gives Doctors Treats For Plugging Its Food Brands) that mentioned "...Once in practice, vets who sell Science Diet and other premium foods directly from their offices pocket profits of as much as 40%." Does anyone know if this is still true?


My opinion is that it is only a "_conflict of interest_" if the veterinarian predicates treatment of your pet on purchasing products/medications from that veterinarian.

As others have mentioned, I have zero issue with my veterinarian making a profit from selling products. Obviously, they're a business and need to be profitable to stay in business (which, is a prime concern to me). And, if I have to choose between "_my vet_" (I try to stay away from corporate practices) and some "_big box_" or "_mail order_" business, I'm going to choose to keep "_my vet_" in business.

As an aside, especially for meds, my understanding is that the supply chain for meds available via the veterinarian may be "_more secure_" than those used by "_big box_" or "_mail order_" groups. Either way, I'm actually a fan of the notion of "_pay a little extra_" to keep desired businesses, be they our chosen veterinarian or some other business, open and providing services.

As another aside, I have a niece who is a veterinarian, and owns her own practice. The effort she has put into getting her education, experience, and opening her practice is only exceeded by her love for animals. It's hard to put a price tag on that level of dedication.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

chloe_ said:


> I hope I don't offend you as I don't mean to be offensive, but I think these statements come off as a little naive. If your statements were true, Banfield Pet Hospitals wouldn't be so controversial. I'm not saying Banfield is representative of the industry, but instead, I'm just giving an example how financial incentives can conflict with the best interests of a patient.
> 
> Vet's selling a specific food reminds me of a college professor that used a specific textbook for his class. It turned out that the guy wrote the freaking book! 🤣


I'm probably the least naive person you're ever likely to encounter, so I'm not at all offended by your remark. I actually find it funny.

You are correct in saying that organizations like Banfield are not representative of vets in general. Banfield is a huge, massive, multinational corporation. If you choose to do business with a place like that instead of with a local vet, you're choosing a completely different context and environment. The vast majority of vets are small, local businesses that work in their patients' best interests.

As for your book example, I'm afraid it's the very definition of naive. My husband is a university professor. Professors write the books they use to teach because they are the specialists in the subjects they are teaching. It is actually part of their job description to produce teaching materials. It's one of the things that comes up in their annual job assessments. My husband was frequently invited to give courses in universities abroad, all over the world, on the strict condition that he wrote and published a book that could be used for the course. If you count the many thousands of hours it takes to develop the expertise to write a book, and then to gather the reference materials, write the text, revise it, find a publisher, make the publisher's corrections, revise the final proofs and then, after publication, do all the promotional activities that you have to do in order to sell a book (conferences, interviews, sending out endless copies with personal letters, etc.), my husband's books have probably earned him about ten cents an hour, if that. Your comparison is ridiculous. There is absolutely no connection between your college professor's book and your original subject of corporate gifts.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

If you don't want to buy the recommended food ... Just Say No, thanks. I'm not offended at all by the fact that they offer the food for sale at their clinics.
For the last few years we have bought NexGard, FrontLine, etc. on line; as for prescription meds, we get our vets to write a 'scrip and we get it filled at a "people pharmacy."


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Veterinarians are in a hard spot- getting into school is far more competitive than medical school, they have tremendous debt and catch all kinds of flak on how expensive care is- Fairness to Pet Owners Act required them to not require filling scripts @ their practice, so that markup is gone, and they are like 60 before their school loans are paid off. Lots of teachers do just as Chloe said, but that's part and parcel of being a teacher. I had a bio prof who had short time to write a book for a class he was teaching in Germany for a year's time there- I actually wrote two chapters and I am not sure I was the only one he borrowed words from. I learned more about ear structure and the brain than I ever meant to know. I don't think that is even a good analogy- not the same thing at all. Like I said earlier, some conditions require a prescription diet- why would the vet not carry the whole line? Why should his shelf space not command a markup? And unless he won't see patients who are NOT buying food from him, he has every right to sell any line he chooses.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Prism Goldens said:


> Fairness to Pet Owners Act


Did the Act pass?


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

not sure- just know around then (2012 ish?) all of a sudden you could get dog meds @ the drug store.
I only remember the name of the act because we had a jokey song about it- it's kinda a dumb name.


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## SoCalEngr (Apr 11, 2020)

FTGoldens said:


> Did the Act pass?


No, "Fairness to Pet Owners" has not passed. The bill was introduced in 2012, but never was approved and was "administratively closed" when Congress was adjourned. The bill was _*re-introduced in 2019*_, but seems like it met a similar fate on the 2nd go-around.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

thanks for that research! I dk if it passed or not maybe if they'd call it something decent it would get a go... but around 2012 or so suddenly one could get scripts easily so maybe it served it's purpose.


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## Chasepiper (Feb 16, 2018)

My husband is a veterinarian and I have worked with him for almost 36 years. I can assure you that prescription diet is far from a money maker. The markup is small - we stock it so we can have the appropriate food for the patient when we recommend it. Most of the time they buy it from us once, and then order it online (for maybe $1 less) yet I still have to stock it in case they forget to order it on time or whatever and they need it right away. We have taken an enormous hit from online pharmacies, so I respect the poster who says she still gets her products from her vet. It takes up a lot of space in addition. We don’t get any kick backs or freebies or anything else. Everything Hill’s give us is so we can sell more product to our clients. Hill’s isn’t even that great in terms of nutritional content but it does the job it is intended for. We have patients that wouldn’t be alive if it weren’t for prescription diets.


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## Mike_L289 (Dec 18, 2015)

chloe_ said:


> I came across an old Wall Street Journal article from 1997 (Colgate Gives Doctors Treats For Plugging Its Food Brands) that mentioned "...Once in practice, vets who sell Science Diet and other premium foods directly from their offices pocket profits of as much as 40%." Does anyone know if this is still true?


When my pal was on a Proplan diet she started gaining weight and I could only give her a cup a day (half in the morning and half at night) to prevent her from gaining weight. The vet prescribed Hills Science Diet Prescription Metabolic and I could increase the food to 3 cups a day (half in the morning and half in the afternoon. While the vet does sell it, they have given me scripts to get it elsewhere when I ask for them – no questions asked. (Normally the cost from the vet is close to the cost elsewhere so I normally get it from the vet). I usually get a script when I travel with my 12 year old puppy. She has been on the prescription diet for over 5 years and it has really helped to keep her weight right where it should be and it seems to be enough (if there is ever a limit on what a Golden wants to eat). There is no pressure to get it from the vet.

Likewise, on prescription meds, the vet has no problems providing me the scripts to take to COSTCO or Walmart to get filled. (flea & tick and heart worm as well). I usually can save about 20% to 40%+ getting them there. The major reason for the lower cost seems to be that the big stores get the volume purchase prices.


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