# I'm kind of bummed about her dog fears



## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

kdmarsh said:


> But ever since I moved to NC about 2 weeks ago, whenever we see a dog on a walk first she freezes up. Then, as I encourage her to keep moving ("c'mon, let's go," very matter of fact), she practically pulls me off my feet trying to get away from the dog as we pass by it! Half the time the dog isn't even paying her any attention, Flora is just so hellbent on getting _away_.
> 
> So what's the best way to address this? Should I stop her on the side of the path when we see a dog and hold her in a sit while the other dog passes, rather than insisting she keeps moving with me? I've seen people put their dogs in sits on walks but I always assumed it was b/c the dog was a lunger. I'm worried Flora won't be able to sit b/c she'll be so nervous, which is why I've just encouraged her to keep on moving. I don't want to do anything that sends her the message that her fear is warranted.


 
Do you think it might help if you had some really good treats with you when you're walking? 
You could maybe try to keep her moving past the other dog by using the treat as kind of a "lure." Just hold it in front of her nose as you keep walking. With any luck, she might be more interested in trying to get that treat than she would be in the other dog passing by?
I still do that with Riley every now and then, if I see that he's eyeballing another dog a little too much and I think he might lunge. It just gives him something better to focus on as we pass by.

You _could_ move her off to the side and have her sit, but I don't know... If you think that she's too nervous for that, I'd almost lean towards letting her keep moving. You don't want to do anything that will make her more uncomfortable than she already is. 

And I would do everything in my power to stop other people from letting their dogs approach Flora if she's showing ANY signs of being uncomfortable. I know that's not always easy to do, but I would certainly try. I made that mistake with Riley, initially. He didn't seem TOO terribly uncomfortable (he was still taking treats, so I thought he was okay) and I let other dogs approach him on a few occasions. I figured he'd get used to it and would learn that it was nothing to be afraid of. Well, you know how that backfired on me! :doh: 
I shouldn't have forced him to endure something he wanted no part of. He went from wanting to get away (like Flora) to figuring that if I wasn't listening to him, he'd take it upon himself to make the other dog go away! You don't want to get to that point with Flora! 

Hopefully others will have some better advice for you, but for now, I'd try luring her along with treats and see how she does with that.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> So what's the best way to address this? Should I stop her on the side of the path when we see a dog and hold her in a sit while the other dog passes, rather than insisting she keeps moving with me? I've seen people put their dogs in sits on walks but I always assumed it was b/c the dog was a lunger. I'm worried Flora won't be able to sit b/c she'll be so nervous, which is why I've just encouraged her to keep on moving. I don't want to do anything that sends her the message that her fear is warranted.


I generally step off the path when I see other dogs passing. Not because my dog would do anything, but because sometimes other people need more room for their dogs (overexcited, fearful, dog aggressive) and it just is polite. 

Or if I'm out on the road by my house, I try to be on the other side of the road and get past as soon as possible for the sake of the other owner. Again, I can handle my dog but other people may be still teaching their dogs how to walk nicely and might appreciate that extra space.

I say 'hi' to the owner and if they seem to welcome a dog visit, that is the only time I bring my dog over. This happened a couple weeks ago when I ran into a nice couple whose sheltie was almost hysterical (fearful yapping) when she saw my guy. 

My guy knows he is supposed to be polite when visiting other dogs. And he generally is, unless the other dog gets him into playmode. So in a way he is a good help for dogs who may be anxious or nervous about meeting dogs. The sheltie settled down immediately after the nose touch. 

So in a long roundabout way I'm trying to say -

Don't worry about your dog being a social flower on walks. The fear behavior is something you can work with as you describe. And pulling her aside and letting her wait and watch the other dog go past will help her as you are not making her "turn her back" on the other dog. 

Don't put your dog through visits unless the other dog is obviously exhibiting signs of being mellow and easy going. If a dog is standing on his or her toenails and staring down at her, that's a reason to look busy or claim your dog has kennel cough. 

And even if she never gets through this... it's not a big deal. As long as she's OK and friendly with people.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

LifeOfRiley said:


> Do you think it might help if you had some really good treats with you when you're walking?
> You could maybe try to keep her moving past the other dog by using the treat as kind of a "lure." Just hold it in front of her nose as you keep walking. With any luck, she might be more interested in trying to get that treat than she would be in the other dog passing by?
> I still do that with Riley every now and then, if I see that he's eyeballing another dog a little too much and I think he might lunge. It just gives him something better to focus on as we pass by.
> 
> ...


Thanks for chiming in! I know from some situations in the past that she actually gets so nervous that treats don't have any impact on her. She'll take them and then spit them out on the ground.

And yes, I do try so hard not to let other dogs approach her - I usually stand in front of Flora and stick a leg out to act as a sort of barrier (I always wonder if people think I'm getting ready to kick their dog, lol). But having Flora on a leash pulling me in the opposite direction makes things tricky!

A few days ago this woman with a beautiful golden retriever walked by us, and paused and commented on Flora. Meanwhile, her golden merely turned its head to regard Flora and she responded by dragging me into a ditch. :doh: I was pretty embarrassed.

When I take her for a walk today I will make sure to carry treats and see what she does when I put her in a sit and let a dog pass and go from there.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Megora said:


> Don't worry about your dog being a social flower on walks. The fear behavior is something you can work with as you describe. And pulling her aside and letting her wait and watch the other dog go past will help her as you are not making her "turn her back" on the other dog.
> 
> Don't put your dog through visits unless the other dog is obviously exhibiting signs of being mellow and easy going. If a dog is standing on his or her toenails and staring down at her, that's a reason to look busy or claim your dog has kennel cough.
> 
> And even if she never gets through this... it's not a big deal. As long as she's OK and friendly with people.


Ah, I responded to LifeofRiley just as you posted this.

I'm not concerned about Flora being friendly with the other dogs - I know that will never happen. I just want her to go back to being a snob (i.e. ignoring the dogs) instead of the fraidy-cat she is now!

And... she is very friendly with people, but since you mention it, I may as well bring this up. Lately (pretty much since we've moved to NC) she's started the habit of, when she sees a person from a distance, freezing up and growling while she stares at them. I know that growl, it's the kind of growl she emits when she sees a plastic bag flitting about in the wind or some sort of strange object. Of course, I _know _that Flora would be as sweet as sugar to that person if they chose to approach her, but... who would approach a growling dog!? This mostly happens when we're playing in my apartment complex's side yard - although she has done it once on a walk when a large man was approaching us. 99.9% of the time on a walk she is perfect around people. She's gotten so weird lately with these two issues. :uhoh:


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Oh, that's rough if she's so nervous that she might not even be interested in treats! I think that's the one thing that has saved me with Riley. He's such a chowhound that he'll take treats even when he's really, really nervous.

I'd go all out and would take a cut up hot dog, or some pieces of cooked chicken with me - anything that she might not be able to resist. 
And allow her to have as much space between her and other dogs as you possibly can. Traffic can make it difficult, but if you can _safely _cross the street, you might want to. I still do that with Riley, when we encounter dogs that I know he has a problem with. I don't want to push him beyond his threshold, to a point where he'll react. I try to make sure that the distance between him and the other dog is within his comfort zone.

But it's not an easy thing to work through. I know!


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## Zazoo (Jul 1, 2011)

Just a thought, My sister was thinking of getting one for her dog.. Side Blinders (like what horses wear) it helps them stay calmer or no get distracted..


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

kdmarsh said:


> And... she is very friendly with people, but since you mention it, I may as well bring this up. Lately (pretty much since we've moved to NC) she's started the habit of, when she sees a person from a distance, freezing up and growling while she stares at them. I know that growl, it's the kind of growl she emits when she sees a plastic bag flitting about in the wind or some sort of strange object. Of course, I _know _that Flora would be as sweet as sugar to that person if they chose to approach her, but... who would approach a growling dog!? This mostly happens when we're playing in my apartment complex's side yard - although she has done it once on a walk when a large man was approaching us. 99.9% of the time on a walk she is perfect around people. She's gotten so weird lately with these two issues. :uhoh:


Sounds like the move might have a lot to do with it? She's in unfamiliar territory now and it might take her a while to get her bearings and start to feel more secure again.
But at least she's friendly with people when they approach her. You're ahead of me on that one! Riley is quite particular about who will be allowed to come near him and who won't. He'll nudge the hand of one person and try to follow them, and he'll growl at the next person for saying hello to him from the other side of the street. I've given up trying to figure him out. :uhoh:

Another thing to remember when someone looks like they're going to let their dog approach Flora: Sometimes you just have to be a bit rude. Or, abrupt, at least. I _didn't_ do that when we first moved here, because we were the new kids on the block and I didn't want to put people off right away. I got over that real quick. lol. Most dogs here are on those **** flexi-leads and if I see that the owner is going to let them get too close, I'll just abruptly tell them, "Keep your dog away." I usually go on to say, "Sorry - I didn't mean to bite your head off, but he's not good with other dogs." I figure I'd rather soften it after the fact than take the time for niceties when the other dog is approaching.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

LifeOfRiley said:


> Sounds like the move might have a lot to do with it? She's in unfamiliar territory now and it might take her a while to get her bearings and start to feel more secure again.
> But at least she's friendly with people when they approach her. You're ahead of me on that one! Riley is quite particular about who will be allowed to come near him and who won't. He'll nudge the hand of one person and try to follow them, and he'll growl at the next person for saying hello to him from the other side of the street. I've given up trying to figure him out. :uhoh:
> 
> Another thing to remember when someone looks like they're going to let their dog approach Flora: Sometimes you just have to be a bit rude. Or, abrupt, at least. I _didn't_ do that when we first moved here, because we were the new kids on the block and I didn't want to put people off right away. I got over that real quick. lol. Most dogs here are on those **** flexi-leads and if I see that the owner is going to let them get too close, I'll just abruptly tell them, "Keep your dog away." I usually go on to say, "Sorry - I didn't mean to bite your head off, but he's not good with other dogs." I figure I'd rather soften it after the fact than take the time for niceties when the other dog is approaching.


Hah, yeah, Flora is a bit _too _nice with people - she goes from the sweet, pretty dog to the hyperactive crying, jumping-all-over you dog pretty quickly!

When people ask me if our dogs can meet I do say no. I say something akin to "Oh, she's very timid around other dogs so it's better if they don't meet." and people are very nice about it. But yeah, once or twice I've actually had to physically grab a dog by the collar so it wouldn't get too close to Flora - as you've said, I don't want her progressing into fear biting territory, and I'm so nervous that it's going to happen one of these days. :uhoh:

Thank you everyone so far! If we happen upon any dogs on our walk tonight I'll make a report on what happened tomorrow.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

kdmarsh said:


> Hah, yeah, Flora is a bit _too _nice with people - she goes from the sweet, pretty dog to the hyperactive crying, jumping-all-over you dog pretty quickly!
> 
> When people ask me if our dogs can meet I do say no. I say something akin to "Oh, she's very timid around other dogs so it's better if they don't meet." and people are very nice about it. But yeah, once or twice I've actually had to physically grab a dog by the collar so it wouldn't get too close to Flora - as you've said, *I don't want her progressing into fear biting territory, and I'm so nervous that it's going to happen one of these days.* :uhoh:
> 
> Thank you everyone so far! If we happen upon any dogs on our walk tonight I'll make a report on what happened tomorrow.


Well, you realize that it can happen and you're doing everything you can to prevent it. That's really half the battle right there, I think.
I didn't see it coming with Riley and that's where I totally messed things up. I thought that the more he was in close proximity to other dogs, the more he'd see that it was okay and would get used to it. Maybe even come to like it. Apparently, he had other thoughts on the matter.

Try to be conscious of how you're feeling when you encounter another dog, too. If you're nervous about what she's going to do, she's picking up on that. That always sounded like the most obvious, simple advice to me, but it was the hardest thing for me to really get a grip on! For quite a while, even when I thought I was feeling pretty calm, I later realized that I wasn't. I'd still have at least that momentary "uh oh" when we'd come upon another dog and I know Riley was picking up on that immediately. And of course, he didn't understand that it was HIS behavior I was nervous about. He just sensed my fear and associated it with the other dog. It wasn't easy, but I finally learned to get a handle on it. The Halti really helped, too. I had better control of him, so even if he did act up, I knew it wasn't going to be a big deal. And from there, I think we helped each other. I was more relaxed, so he started behaving better. And the better he started to behave the more relaxed I got.

Hope your walk last night was uneventful!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I started to reply to this last night and then apparently I must've been "timed out" on my log in. My return stud fee puppy is afraid of other dogs. When she came to me she was scared of my dogs, including her mother. She would crawl on her belly like a soldier when she came near them. The other thing she would do is rollover on her back, cringe, whimper, and pee herself. I just ignored it and do my best to prevent her from acting that way so she can't practice her cringing behavior. She is so much better. I also take her to soccer and lacrosse games, the farmer's market, etc. She has gotten so much more exposure to new things(she came from a very isolated place). She is not at all afraid of my dogs now. In fact her BFF is my bitch with the biggest 'tude. She still exhibited a bit of anxiety when I showed her in the UKC shows.. goldens are "gun dogs" in the UKC, so are poodles. She took the breed in 3 straight shows and had to go in the group with a white foofy standard poodle. I thought she would pee herself when she saw that dog come up behind her!! And she loves this year's and last year's litter of pups. Her BFF had this year's litter and she goes in the whelping box with them.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Do you want to try to meet up some weekend soon? I can bring Jasper. He has extremely good dog manners and isn't the least bit pushy or overwhelming. He reads other dogs and approaches them only if they are comfortable with him. I'd be happy to get together somewhere between Raleigh and Chapel Hill for us to walk them together to see how she does with him.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

fostermom said:


> Do you want to try to meet up some weekend soon? I can bring Jasper. He has extremely good dog manners and isn't the least bit pushy or overwhelming. He reads other dogs and approaches them only if they are comfortable with him. I'd be happy to get together somewhere between Raleigh and Chapel Hill for us to walk them together to see how she does with him.



That would actually be great! I would happily drive as far as you need me to so you don't have to go very far. And it probably wouldn't be a very long walk - Flora, among other things, does not care to walk much longer than 20-30 minutes. I would love to see how Flora behaved around a dog with manners. I'm afraid most of our experiences has been with dogs that are very pushy and in her face. I'll PM you. 

As for yesterday's walk - we first encountered a couple with a black and white mix dog. The man said I could let Flora off leash, and I informed him that perhaps it would be best if both dogs stayed on leash. The dog passed her, and she was... okay. Kind of skirted to the side a little, but nothing major. Unfortunately, I think things were complicated by a thunderstorm that was brewing. Flora never has seemed too nervous about storms but yesterday I noticed she was frothing heavily at the mouth, which she does when she's anxious.

We passed another man with two dogs and Flora was actually fine! One of the dogs snarled and lunged at her but her owner had good control, and Flora kept moving. I still wonder if the t-storm bothered her more than the dogs and that's why she didn't react, or maybe she had no problem with the dog! I dunno. She's a goofy girl. 

Thank you everyone for your feedback.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I got your PM and responded.

I can tell you that Jasper reads other dogs really well. When we are walking at the park, he's my "outside" dog, meaning he is the one closest to the dogs coming towards us. I do that because I know he won't lunge over and try to greet the other dog(s), but also because I can tell by his behavior as they approach whether they are friendly or not. If they aren't, he will move around behind me and to my other side to avoid them and refuses to look at them. If they are friendly, he stays where he is and his tail wags slowly, but he sill doesn't approach them unless I say it's okay.

It could be that Flora is reading the other dogs well. I can't tell you how many people want their dogs to say "hi" to my dogs when I am walking them because they say their dogs are very friendly. Then the dog snarls and lunges or, the better signal is when I tell them that Jasper can say "hi". If he refuses to approach them, I tell them that Jasmine is not always friendly to other dogs. He is refusing to approach them because they are giving off some signal that makes him uncomfortable.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

kdmarsh said:


> As for yesterday's walk - we first encountered a couple with a black and white mix dog. The man said I could let Flora off leash, and I informed him that perhaps it would be best if both dogs stayed on leash. The dog passed her, and she was... okay. Kind of skirted to the side a little, but nothing major. Unfortunately, I think things were complicated by a thunderstorm that was brewing. Flora never has seemed too nervous about storms but yesterday I noticed she was frothing heavily at the mouth, which she does when she's anxious.
> 
> We passed another man with two dogs and Flora was actually fine! One of the dogs snarled and lunged at her but her owner had good control, and Flora kept moving. I still wonder if the t-storm bothered her more than the dogs and that's why she didn't react, or maybe she had no problem with the dog! I dunno. She's a goofy girl.
> 
> Thank you everyone for your feedback.


Whatever the case, that's great! I always considered it a little victory every time we walked by another dog without Riley acting up. (Still do!)

I think that would be a great idea, if you're going to meet up with fostermom. I SO wish I had a dog savvy person with a calm, reliable dog near me to help me work with Riley. That kind of help can be invaluable!
You'll both have to let us know how it turns out.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

While I don't have any advice on the situation, I have a treat recommendation.

Gibbs is younger and we're still working on polite leash walking in distracting environments. At times, the stimulus is much more reinforcing than a treat. He's also been known to spit it out or ignore one altogether. However, that is before I found Frozen Bil Jac. It's a dog food, usually found at dog shows, though my local grocery store does carry it. I wad a bunch of it into a ball and just pinch of some as needed or let him gnaw right from the wad of treat if we're doing attention heeling or whatever. Just thought you might like to have some of it on hand, it's irresistable to most dogs.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Thank you for the treat recommendation! I will pick that up this weekend when we make a trip to Petsmart.

Yesterday we were hiking and approached a gentleman with an older husky-like dog. It was off leash. Flora did not seem at all bothered by the dog so I allowed the husky to approach her. This dog was extremely polite, and although I could tell Flora was nervous, things went fine between them. They got their sniffs in, the man and I chatted a bit, and we moved on. I wish all dogs were like that husky!


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

kdmarsh said:


> Thank you for the treat recommendation! I will pick that up this weekend when we make a trip to Petsmart.
> 
> Yesterday we were hiking and approached a gentleman with an older husky-like dog. It was off leash. Flora did not seem at all bothered by the dog so I allowed the husky to approach her. This dog was extremely polite, and although I could tell Flora was nervous, things went fine between them. They got their sniffs in, the man and I chatted a bit, and we moved on. I wish all dogs were like that husky!


Wow, that's great! Every positive encounter she has will help build her confidence.


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