# What would you train first?



## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

I am getting my pup the end of June. I have bumpers( white and white n black), docken dummies, wings, gun. I still need to get my whistles. I was wondering aside from him learning his name and to come what do you think is the most important thing to train right from the start. 

I am already going to hunt training class even tho I dont have a dog yet.


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## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

Aside from a rock solid recall, you want him to LOVE his crate.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

*SIT*and more importantly *SIT* Did I mention rock solid sit. Recall also but when you first get him. RETRIEVING IS FUN!!! I have a couple of videos Jackie Mertens,and Bill Hillman. If you can only get one the Jackie Mertens would be the priority.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

Okay with the sit should I start right away introducing the whistle with his sit or not?

One person told me to introduce him right away to birds. I need to order my quail.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Yes on the whistle I teach it as soon as I am sure he knows what sit is. Introduce birds yes my pup was introduced before I got him. And if I can scrounge some up he will get them this week. If not next week for sure. HOw old is your pup??? Are you teaching upland as in quail hunting???


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

Yes, birds right away! Pigeons are easy to get and cheap. They are also easy keepers, and if they die, you can just throw them in the freezer.


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## HovawartMom (Aug 10, 2006)

My pup is 3 mths old and she has a solid recall and sit!.She accepts her crate and her retrieve is nearly perfect.
Do remember that short,training sessions are easier cos of their attention span so that she doesn't get bored and give up.
For the retrieving,I would start with any toy that keeps her interest and once, she is solid,go to the dummies.Keep the distances short.
Always remember it's a pup even if he/she looks like an adult dog as they remain puppysh,for a long time.


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## The Trio (Apr 24, 2010)

Where does everyone order their supplies (birds) from?


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## The Trio (Apr 24, 2010)

I don't understand the whistle? What kind which one?


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Sit, sit and sit!

I wouldn't bother with quail. They're too small and promote undesirable habits. Pigeons are about as small a training bird you'll want to use with a retriever. (Chukkar can work in a pinch too.) Most of the time ducks or pheasants are good training birds.


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

Just your basic Roy Gonia works great! Fox 40's are a little more schrill, and not used by most people I know.

I got my birds from the trainers I trained with.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

The Trio said:


> Where does everyone order their supplies (birds) from?


Training Equipment is available from: 

DogsAfield

Gundog Supply

Lyon Country Supply

Cabela's

Gander Mountain

Training birds can be purchased from your local game farms.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Get a megawhistle and a roy gonia. Keep two whistles on your lanyard, you never know when one will freeze up or break. 

Stay away from the Fox 40's. They're too obnoxious to those working around you.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

This one protects your ears. Recommended by Dave Rorem at a seminar to protect your hearing. Remember when training, your dog can hear better than you can. Up close be easy on the whistle volume. You don't want to ruin his ears either especially a puppy.
Megawhistle

This one is my backup
Roy Gonia Clear

This one is what I am going to try on Gunner. Lot of recommendations that the dogs can hear them better.

The Answer


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

Thanks for the links on the whistles. I really liked the sound of the Megawhistle. Someone was using one at training 2wks ago and I didnt get a chance to ask them what kind it was. 

My pup is only 2wks old. I will not be getting him until the end of June. I want to be prepared. I have seen a couple of young labs at training doing really well and I want to get a rock solid foundation with my pup. 

Thanks Swampcollie I will get pheasants instead. I thought because it was a sm. pup I would want a sm. bird. Actually pheasants are easier to get.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

My 5 1/2 week old pups are already carrying frozen pigeons around. They're big enough now to introduce clip wing pigeons. 

Quail work well for pointing dogs because they have a lot of scent and pointers don't usually do a lot of retrieving. 

Where is your pup from?


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

Topflight kennels. I am getting one from the Jazz and Henry breeding. 

I was told that pigeons worked well but I dont know where to get them. I see pheasants for sale all the time around here so I will go with that.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Start with hens. (Roosters have spurs)
In late June/early July the game farms sell their brooder hens for training birds. They can't fly, but they don't need to for puppy training. 

Those Jazz puppies are HUGE already. They grow quickly when there isn't a lot of competition at the dairy queen.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

I know those little guys are not so little. 

Okay another question. I have chickens for eggs how do I teach him that those chickens are off limits if I use chickens. I was thinking if I had different birds for him aside from my chickens I could teach him which were alright to chase and grab as they would sound different and smell different.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

I don't know of a reliable way to keep the pup from going after chickens except physical separation. Once the dog is older you can train it to treat it as a poison bird ie "no" him off of it, but that only works when you're there providing direct supervision. 

Without supervision, the dog is going to go after the chickens because it's been bred for generations to chase, catch and retrieve birds.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

Thanks. 

I dont want him to think that he can have any bird. He will always be supervised just like my dog now is. A few weeks ago we came home and the chickens were out of their pen. I didnt realize this when I let Vendetta out of the car. A "NO leave it" stopped her in her tracks, but then she isnt a retriever.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

*Pheasants easier to get???*
Wish I had that option!!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Two things you want the puppy to be very familiar with and very fond of: *birds and swimming*. The rest is the same as any other pet puppy, crate, obedience, socializing, etc.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

He will be going to the lake alot. I also have a small river down the road that I can take him to. Plus I have my sisters lab that just loves water so I am sure that will help to get the little guy into the water easier at least I hope it helps. 


There is a person that raises pheasants close by. There are always birds for sale there. I guess I am lucky.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

> There is a person that raises pheasants close by. There are always birds for sale there. I guess I am luck


Yes you are and like SC said get hens. You will also need some ducks. Pidgeons for early training.
Chickens are good to use in training also for certain drills. (Steadying) They make lot's of noise and pump em up pretty good. Also can be used for flyers (shackled) and they hold up well to being carried by the dogs.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I just have to tell you, after running these two double master weekends (2x fliers) and now training more with shackled ducks, Fisher is starting to point and want to go after crows that land in the yard, it is hysterical. He's never done that before. I think he's reached his bird crazy threshold  I think he would sh*t a brick if we used chickens.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Double post,sorry


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

If you really want to prove his "steady" put the cluckers in there on a flyer triple. We want videos complete with sound especially yours:--big_grin::--big_grin:
How did your masters go. Did you have any problems with him "loosening" up on the double masters?? Have training partner with a hot little BLF said he would never do a double masters again.



> [ I think he's reached his bird crazy threshold/QUOTE]
> 
> After studying the Hillman DVD I would get a few OB drills in without birds. "Balance" which I have difficult time remembering.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Radarsdad said:


> If you really want to prove his "steady" put the cluckers in there on a flyer triple. We want videos complete with sound especially yours:--big_grin::--big_grin:


HAHAHAHA oh yeah that WOULD be entertaining! 



> How did your masters go. Did you have any problems with him "loosening" up on the double masters?? Have training partner with a hot little BLF said he would never do a double masters again.


This weekend he did really well. The only thing he messed up was the first series of the Friday test, he nailed his marks on the triple that was very difficult then on the first blind, did great 3/4 of the way but on my first handle, he scalloped back HARD to the flyer fall area and I could never get him out of it. He got to sit in the car the rest of the day and on Saturday he was a "little" loose on the first blind but minded his manners the rest of the way. He did not creep at all which made me very happy. The one thing Fisher does in tests is not wanting to sit in heel position when he brings back the first bird lining up for the memory bird(s). He wants to stand and walk a few feet whereas I want him to sit and concentrate before sending. So THAT got a little loose but that was the only thing, and he seriously stepped on his marks in the 2nd & 3rd series so I can't complain. Fisher is NOT a firebreather by any stretch of the imagination so he can keep it together through 3 days pretty well.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

> The one thing Fisher does in tests is not wanting to sit in heel position when he brings back the first bird lining up for the memory bird(s). He wants to stand and walk a few feet whereas I want him to sit and concentrate before sending.


Would it help to receive him behind the line and walk back to it bird in mouth online the next mark. I assume he has a solid hold.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

Radarsdad said:


> Would it help to receive him behind the line and walk back to it bird in mouth online the next mark. I assume he has a solid hold.


Are we still talking about a little pup here? Seems like asking a lot too soon unless you're referring to an older pup - say 4-5 months old.









 
EvanG
www.rushcreekpress.com


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

> Are we still talking about a little pup here? Seems like asking a lot too soon unless you're referring to an older pup - say 4-5 months old.


No I was responding to K9 his dog was not reheeling properly to the next mark in MH test. I was just suggesting in the test receive the dog behind the line and walk back to the line lineing to the next mark bird in mouth. Bandaid to get through the test to train on later.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

EvanG thanks for those videos they were great.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

You're welcome! 35 years of training, and I still enjoy pups! 

EvanG


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## Cowtown (Sep 23, 2009)

General V said:


> I am getting my pup the end of June. I have bumpers( white and white n black), docken dummies, wings, gun. I still need to get my whistles. I was wondering aside from him learning his name and to come what do you think is the most important thing to train right from the start.
> 
> I am already going to hunt training class even tho I dont have a dog yet.



Stop everything, quit thinking about it and just go buy Jackie Merten's Sound Beginnings. It'll be the best $40-50 you can spend.

It will show you EXACTLY what to do from Day 1 you get your pup. Quit overthinking it like I did. Go buy a proven, successful Puppy program and follow it.

This will take your pupper to about 6 months, then you will decide on a formal training program such as Mike Lardy's Total Retriever Series or Evan Graham's Smartworks.


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## Discoverer (Feb 3, 2011)

Cowtown said:


> Stop everything, quit thinking about it and just go buy Jackie Merten's Sound Beginnings. It'll be the best $40-50 you can spend.
> 
> It will show you EXACTLY what to do from Day 1 you get your pup. Quit overthinking it like I did. Go buy a proven, successful Puppy program and follow it.
> 
> This will take your pupper to about 6 months, then you will decide on a formal training program such as Mike Lardy's Total Retriever Series or Evan Graham's Smartworks.


I was wondering if anyone has a copy of "Sound Beginnings" by Jackie Mertens that don't need anymore? Either VHS or DVD will be fine. Please PM with details. Thank you.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

General V said:


> I am getting my pup the end of June. I have bumpers( white and white n black), docken dummies, wings, gun. I still need to get my whistles. I was wondering aside from him learning his name and to come what do you think is the most important thing to train right from the start.
> 
> I am already going to hunt training class even tho I dont have a dog yet.


Bonding and socialization are paramount. But to begin your training, design your approach for fieldwork, rather than some generic pet pup approach. There is surely is a difference.

Standard obedience should be taught passively via operant conditioning, and commands should be those your pup will put to use when his training becomes more formal at around 6 months of age. Here, Sit, Heel, Kennel, Down are core commands. I begin with "Here"; the most important, and most enforceable command. And, to a retriever, an absolute necessity. If our dog won't bring you what he's fetched, he's not a retriever.









 
Those guidelines are essential to the development of a retriever pup that will work for a living. There is much more, but it begins there.

EvanG


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