# Cholesterol and chalk



## hotel4dogs

I think judges are (finally) getting wise to that stuff, and that's a good thing. Neither is supposed to be used.
I've seen chalk used to disguise lick stains between the toes.


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## Alaska7133

And noses painted black too. I just didn't know anything about it. I had someone up here comment that I should do that with Lucy to get her better looking for a show. I don't know anything about the stuff.

I actually saw chalk advertised for humans to change the color of hair for Halloween costumes. I don't know if its the same stuff.


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## Megora

Stacey - you can buy cholesterol from Sally's. You can also buy cholesterol from places like Show Dog Store (CC or Plush Puppy), but they're a bit more expensive. 

Chalk - same thing.... 

You don't have to use those products (I don't) if you want to poof her up a little. There are other products or mousses that do about the same thing. 

Most people I know just rub or spray a little stuff in on the legs after the dogs are dry and shortly before they take them off the table.

If she needs a little help - maybe if you know people who are going down there to the National - see if they'd swing over to your table to help you get her ready?


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## Kmullen

The only dog I have had that I used it for was my boy and only bc he chews his front feet and so does Remi and I use it to blend in the the "unchewed part". Lol


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## Kmullen

I honestly do not think it will make a difference with Lucky. Maybe use the cholesterol on her hock hair to make it fuller.


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## K9-Design

I would definitely use some mousse on her - everywhere - and cholesterol on her legs. Honestly I've never used powder or chalk so not sure what to advise you there. Definitely bathe her and do a full groom before you go in the ring. Best of luck -- and see you there!!!


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## Alaska7133

The nice part is, down at national, I'll be able to buy any products I might need. I spent a bunch of time grooming last night. Seems like if I stay on top of her ears and feet, the overall grooming goes a lot faster. So my plan is to keep her trimmed nicely between now and national and just have to wash and blow her out each morning I show her, then mousse her before the show. We're in the ring Wed afternoon and Thur afternoon. So we have the mornings to prep. I have a friend in the ring on Wed morning at 8 am. That doesn't sound like fun!


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## Kmullen

kfayard said:


> I honestly do not think it will make a difference with Lucky. Maybe use the cholesterol on her hock hair to make it fuller.


 Stacey, hope you know I meant Lucy...NOT Lucky!! LOL


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## Kmullen

Alaska7133 said:


> The nice part is, down at national, I'll be able to buy any products I might need. I spent a bunch of time grooming last night. Seems like if I stay on top of her ears and feet, the overall grooming goes a lot faster. So my plan is to keep her trimmed nicely between now and national and just have to wash and blow her out each morning I show her, then mousse her before the show. We're in the ring Wed afternoon and Thur afternoon. So we have the mornings to prep. I have a friend in the ring on Wed morning at 8 am. That doesn't sound like fun!


 I will be in the ring with you Thursday afternoon, if you need help, just let me know! Good Luck!


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## Brave

Best of luck, to you both, at
nationals.


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## Alaska7133

HaHa!!

It will be fun to be in the ring with you and Hank! I'm a complete novice and have been in only really small shows in Alaska. Stepping out at national is going to be huge for me. I hope I don't trip or something stupid like that! On Thursday afternoon I'm in AOH. Which class are you in, Open or BOB?


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## Kmullen

Alaska7133 said:


> HaHa!!
> 
> It will be fun to be in the ring with you and Hank! I'm a complete novice and have been in only really small shows in Alaska. Stepping out at national is going to be huge for me. I hope I don't trip or something stupid like that! On Thursday afternoon I'm in AOH. Which class are you in, Open or BOB?


 You will be fine!! I thought you were in JH sweeps? That is the only class Remi is in. She is finished and didn't enter her in Breed.


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## Alaska7133

We are in JH sweeps. I added in AOH for the heck of it. It's a small class too, 17 bitches.


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## Kmullen

Alaska7133 said:


> We are in JH sweeps. I added in AOH for the heck of it. It's a small class too, 17 bitches.


Well you might as well!! I am set up in C84. Where is your grooming spot?


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## DanaRuns

Ugh. I am so against using those products. The dog is the dog, and moderate bone is fine. A lot of dogs using powder and cholesterol (and you'll suffer the consequences if the judge ends up with the product on his/her hands) end up looking overdone, imho. Personally, I never use those products, and the handlers I hired don't use them, either.

Sorry, just my rant. Carry on!


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## Alaska7133

Dana, I'm just looking at what this stuff all is. I'm not even sure what it feels like in a dog. I had it suggested by a collie person. I guess they use it to make the dog look puffier. Will your dogs be at national?

The Alaskans will be in B18 for grooming. There are 3 of us. One boy BOB, one girl pup 6-9 month, and Lucy. We all show at different times, so we hope to not step in each other. Stop by and say hi!


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## Kmullen

Alaska7133 said:


> Dana, I'm just looking at what this stuff all is. I'm not even sure what it feels like in a dog. I had it suggested by a collie person. I guess they use it to make the dog look puffier. Will your dogs be at national?
> 
> The Alaskans will be in B18 for grooming. There are 3 of us. One boy BOB, one girl pup 6-9 month, and Lucy. We all show at different times, so we hope to not step in each other. Stop by and say hi!


 You guys will be fine! We have 4 in our grooming area!


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## Megora

Alaska7133 said:


> I'm just looking at what this stuff all is. I'm not even sure what it feels like in a dog. I had it suggested by a collie person. I guess they use it to make the dog look puffier.


There are other products to use which build body that you can't feel it in the coat. You're running short on time and probably makes sense buying at the show, but I was going to say that if you test drive a couple products now - you can probably see what works or not. Or again, just have somebody else at the show help you out. 

I actually did a test of products before one of the last shows which I knew would be rainy and gross out and I knew blow drying alone was going to be a waste of time on feet and legs.... I put cholesterol and powder on Bertie's one leg and sprayed the other leg with a different product (thick and thicker).... and allowed time for both products to set. The other leg had a more natural look and feel - but I had to use a lot more product than I did with the cholesterol leg. 

Note - I washed both legs out shortly after because Mr. I-Groom-Myself would lick and chew his feet if there was the slightest itch.


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## Alaska7133

Thanks Megora, I leave tonight. I'm headed to Cheraw, SC for the national field trials. I believe I'm shooting ducks at the amateur field trial. The little town the field trial is in, won't have any grooming products to test out and I won't have time this evening before flying to buy any. The next time I will, is the day that I show Lucy. So I really doubt I'll be trying anything new out on short notice! I show Lucy again in a one day show Nov. 9. So maybe then!


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## Alaska7133

So I learned a bit how to use cholesterol. I had a friend show me at national. When Lucy was fresh from a wash, he put a little bit on his hands and lightly ran in on her legs and feet. I couldn't feel it when it was dry, but it did make her fur on her legs a bit fluffier. Lucy is a very muscular dog, but has short fur on her legs. 

Last weekend on our GR club party, a woman has her bitch campaigning down in the states. Her pro is using chalk on her girl. I didn't get a chance to ask why the pro chose to use chalk. The bitch is about 14 months old. She is showing in Open since the pro think she's too big for 12-18 month bitches. Not sure what that is all about, but she picked up some points that way. 

Here's Lucy's photos from the show. The photo with the judge is not the best, I didn't realize I was kinking Lucy's tail. At 30 months she still doesn't have any fur and she probably never will. Now she's in heat and in a few weeks she'll blow what little coat she has.


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## Kmullen

Lucy reminds me of my girl KC. This is KC "with" coat and then as she is starting to blow. She looks like a lab right now...! She should be coming in season...so I will start working on coat now. Not sure she will win in the show ring, but I love her.


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## Alaska7133

KC is a lovely bitch! 

I never wanted all that heavy coat anyway (I keep telling myself). When I was training with the field trailers at national, Lucy got coated in little tiny burrs. I spent 2 hours getting them out of her the night before she showed. I was immensely thankful then that she didn't have any coat!


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## Kmullen

Alaska7133 said:


> KC is a lovely bitch!
> 
> I never wanted all that heavy coat anyway (I keep telling myself). When I was training with the field trailers at national, Lucy got coated in little tiny burrs. I spent 2 hours getting them out of her the night before she showed. I was immensely thankful then that she didn't have any coat!


 
I understand there. KC is not the Pretty bitch that you see in the show ring, so it will be interesting to see how she does. When she comes in coat...hopefully :crossfing I am going to send her out for about a month and just see what happens. But, hopefully going for JH in the spring.

Good Luck to you guys! Are you going to show her anytime soon?


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## Alaska7133

We were in a one day show on Nov. 7th. Then no more shows until Jan 24-25 and then March 28-29. It was really different going back to the Alaska ring in November. I was really digging those big rings at national. It was also really nice to have such large classes. We are all so small here that the rings are tiny and the classes so small that your time in the ring is over in seconds it seems like. 

So when are you back in the ring? Are you running your girls as specials?


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## cubbysan

Just pulling this thread up because I bought some cholesterol from Sally's for Sailor. They told me many groomers buy it from them. She has the same type of coat and build as both Lucy and KC. Although in these pictures they had just finished her season that week.

The second picture the right is after I dried her, the first picture is about an hour later, her top line starts to wave. I am told that 1) I probably did not bone dry her 2) cholesterol might help get the wave out and 3) I need to probably blow all her coat on her back against the growth, then when I think it is dry, blow dry it the direction it grows.

Can anybody help me? When my breeder dries her, she doesn't have the wave, but every time I watch her, she does something different to her and all the dogs, so there is no consistency.


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## Megora

It's the way you're drying her. 

Blow backwards (tail to head, belly to spine, feet to neck) until most of the excess moisture is blown off (you'll be blowing for 1-3 minutes), blow back the other way to get water off the other way and straighten/flatten the coat.... repeat until completely dry. I can't remember what Bertie's breeder said about how to test whether the coat completely dry or not... the way I test is by touch. I'll brush the coat backwards and run a hand in the undercoat and if it's completely dry and the coat goes back to laying the way it should without getting "stuck" standing up - it's dry.

If you do this right - your dog should be dry pretty quickly and the coat should for the most part be completely straight and smooth even without using a brush or any product.

And drying this way every time will straighten any waves that would otherwise form from the dog going off and sitting or laying down while damp.

If a dog's coat is truly wavy or curly - then there are products you can buy. <= I don't know what they are, but had a salesman from the show dog grooming store here (Whitmans) go into salesman mode when I stopped in their trailer to pick up a couple things I needed. Bertie had gotten a quick bath that morning before I left for the show and I didn't worry about drying since I'd be wetting him down again at the show and drying. So he had some cowlicks going that I wasn't worried about since he does not have a curly coat and those are easily straightened out while drying properly. 

The guy at Whitman though was all ready to sell some stuff - and I do trust their judgement. They know all about what they sell...


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## cubbysan

Megora said:


> It's the way you're drying her.
> 
> Blow backwards (tail to head, belly to spine, feet to neck) until most of the excess moisture is blown off (you'll be blowing for 1-3 minutes), blow back the other way to get water off the other way and straighten/flatten the coat.... repeat until completely dry. I can't remember what Bertie's breed said about how to test whether the coat completely dry or not... the way I test is by touch. I'll brush the coat backwards and run a hand in the undercoat and if it's completely dry and the coat goes back to laying the way it should without getting "stuck" standing up - it's dry.
> 
> If you do this right - your dog should be dry pretty quickly and the coat should for the most part be completely straight and smooth even without using a brush or any product.
> 
> And drying this way every time will straighten any waves that would otherwise form from the dog going off and sitting or laying down while damp.
> 
> If a dog's coat is truly wavy or curly - then there are products you can buy. <= I don't know what they are, but had a salesman from the show dog grooming store here (Whitmans) go into salesman mode when I stopped in their trailer to pick up a couple things I needed. Bertie had gotten a quick bath that morning before I left for the show and I didn't worry about drying since I'd be wetting him down again at the show and drying. So he had some cowlicks going that I wasn't worried about since he does not have a curly coat and those are easily straightened out while drying properly.
> 
> The guy at Whitman though was all ready to sell some stuff - and I do trust their judgement. They know all about what they sell...


Thank you! It takes me about an hour and a half to dry her with a heavy duty 4.0 dryer. Giving her a bath tomorrow, I'll see what happens. 

You have a dog grooming store? Lucky you!


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## Megora

> You have a dog grooming store? Lucky you!


They DO have an actual store location here in MI now, but it's like 2 hours away from me.  

I mainly see them at all the shows.


*** Other thing is know how long it takes to dry/prep her and plan on just finishing up and doing feet 10 minutes before you going into the ring. Don't groom too early.


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## cubbysan

Megora said:


> They DO have an actual store location here in MI now, but it's like 2 hours away from me.
> 
> I mainly see them at all the shows.
> 
> 
> *** Other thing is know how long it takes to dry/prep her and plan on just finishing up and doing feet 10 minutes before you going into the ring. Don't groom too early.


That is part of my problem, I get so nervous that I have her ready right when the Dogs are up, so I end up waiting like an hour before her class is up. I envy the people that have that short hair dogs, but then I heard that at the Westminster show the shih tzu took 5 hours to groom - a golden doesn't sound so bad.


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## hotel4dogs

Interestingly I've been told by several handlers and 2 breeders who have groomed Tito to never, ever blown the hair over the top line in the opposite direction from the way it grows, so I guess everyone has their own way of doing it. Also spend the first 1/2 hour on the top line plus any problem areas. 
You can tell it's dry when the hairs are individual everywhere, and there is no "crinkled" look.
Also, a wave over the topline is not a fault.


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## Megora

Barb, did they give you a reason for that? 

I'm imagining for a lot of people it's either about avoiding causing any cowlick and or "open coat". But if you are always blowing the coat back the way it grows, the coat will lay flat and tight the way it should. To me - it's cutting down the amount of time it takes to get the dog dry if you are blowing the moisture out of the undercoat before blowing back the other way.


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## cubbysan

hotel4dogs said:


> Interestingly I've been told by several handlers and 2 breeders who have groomed Tito to never, ever blown the hair over the top line in the opposite direction from the way it grows, so I guess everyone has their own way of doing it. Also spend the first 1/2 hour on the top line plus any problem areas.
> You can tell it's dry when the hairs are individual everywhere, and there is no "crinkled" look.
> Also, a wave over the topline is not a fault.


I have been to multiple golden retriever grooming classes, and seen videos and all but one said the same thing. Blow dry in the direction of the hose being a comb.

I know the wave is not a fault, and her coat is probably more correct than a lot of the real fluffy show dogs, but it looks pretty bad when the other 20 dogs have no wave.


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## Alaska7133

I never back blowed either. Lucy has naturally very straight fur. I think it's more that the fur was never dried all the way to the skin. I had some advice early on to blow dry for 20 minutes more after you think they are dry. 

I only used cholesterol on Lucy's legs. She has really short fur and I wanted to get more lift so that the fur stuck out more from her skin. It was to give her more "bone". It did work. I never used it on her body. 

By the way, wavy fur is in the breed standard. But the show ring style seems to be straight.


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## hotel4dogs

Yes, the coat is supposed to "lay like a jacket against the skin". Blowing it open, especially over the topline, makes it appear incorrect.
Also, you want the topline rock solid. Any hairs sticking up could be counter productive.
I do admit when he's just being a "pet" dog, I blow dry it in all kinds of directions. Much faster! But when he was showing, always in the direction the fur grows, sweeping the blow dryer nozzle back and forth across his spine.




Megora said:


> Barb, did they give you a reason for that?
> 
> I'm imagining for a lot of people it's either about avoiding causing any cowlick and or "open coat". But if you are always blowing the coat back the way it grows, the coat will lay flat and tight the way it should. To me - it's cutting down the amount of time it takes to get the dog dry if you are blowing the moisture out of the undercoat before blowing back the other way.


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## hotel4dogs

Ok, I've been trying to figure this one out but I'm stumped...



cubbysan said:


> I have been to multiple golden retriever grooming classes, and seen videos and all but one said the same thing. *Blow dry in the direction of the hose being a comb.
> *
> I know the wave is not a fault, and her coat is probably more correct than a lot of the real fluffy show dogs, but it looks pretty bad when the other 20 dogs have no wave.


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## Megora

hotel4dogs said:


> Yes, the coat is supposed to "lay like a jacket against the skin". Blowing it open, especially over the topline, makes it appear incorrect.
> Also, you want the topline rock solid. Any hairs sticking up could be counter productive.


Barb - when I think about "open" coat or at least what you want to avoid... you don't want to finish up with your dog's coat standing out like a chow or a Pomeranian... 

But I'm trying to understand - and I know exactly it's what people told you, because I've heard bits and pieces of it said as well - why if every second step of drying involves you making sure the coat is smooth and laying flat and tight around your dog's bod... why there would be a concern about it staying open because the first step involves blowing against the grain. 






^^^ The above video amuses me as far as how many products he's pitching (and geesh he makes me want to buy that dryer), but he addresses the blowing backwards part. And it's very similar to what I saw in a grooming demo by some golden judge/handler/breeders for other breeders, etc....


Morningsage Goldens Grooming

^ Here's another.


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## Megora

Random add here.... 

I was updating Bertie's k9data (yes, I change the pictures frequently there too! doesn't anyone else get bored looking at the same pics?) - and it was kinda related to this conversation... 

This pic was taken about 5 or 6 hours after he was groomed. My memory is fuzzy about the details, but I remember having to a wait a very long time for the sporting group to finish (we didn't win breed), and best of show to finish, and so on... all that in addition to actual showing in goldens. It was EXTREMELY HOT (I know people like Anney and Kellie are laughing at me about my definition of extremely hot - I think Anney compared it to spring weather...) and I'd been spritzing Bertie with water and/or dipping his feet in water to keep him cool. Note, we also showed on grass all month, so I admit to not being as fussy about grooming the feet. I believe I did all the ear/feet/tail trimming before this show.

So this whole thing about cholesterol and so on to make the feet "poof" went out the window in a very hot outside show. 

But anyway - you can see the coat on the topline is not standing "open". You don't see his undercoat poofing out. This is drying the way I described. 

If I take him off the table when he's not completely try - he will shake and bring all that moisture from the skin/undercoat up - which flips the topcoat. What he will get is ring around the butt generally. That's usually (when he shakes) all the excess moisture ends up. And of course even if I smooth the flip down and so on, if he sits down or lays down while damp like this it will cause the flips. Which are different than actual waves. If I left those flips alone - one to two days after being groomed, his coat will be straight again on its own. 

And of course, my reason for freaking out today and sticking a note on my to do list - is I'm thinking about making sure I get into the habit of conditioning the kiddos coat ever weekend.  He's been running through the woods and so on all winter and his front leg feathering is quite a bit longer than in the picture and needs to be trimmed back and conditioned... his tail actually is a bit fuller now than in the picture - but again, I need to condition every week. I know that goldens do not have to (or should) have furnishings as smooth and silky as an irish setter, but I want it all to look nice!


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## K9-Design

To get the topline to lay flat I blow it against the grain to straight down going one long sweep from base of tail to top of the head. 

View attachment _ND80374.jpg


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## Christen113

I've always blown Cooper against the grain first and then smoothed it back down by blowing it in the direction it grows. Will someone explain what an "open" coat it? 

One handler I hired says she always likes them a little wet because it helps the coat stay down. She actually had him fairly damp so the blow dry didn't keep his hair looking as good post show but it did look really good for the show. I've always dried him completely.

A different handler used Barbasol to add more bone to his legs-$2 a can. 

I can't quite tell from your pic, is Sailor's wave right at the cape? If so, both handlers have done a great job with a pair of thinning shears so it would lay correctly.


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## German Shepherd Girl

Kmullen said:


> I will be in the ring with you Thursday afternoon, if you need help, just let me know! Good Luck!


I have german shepherds, Am dealing with the same problem as you. I have a two year old bitch and because she is out of coat, she looks like a puppy. Moves, side gait, everything is awesome but because she looks so immature, we're not going anywhere. I was just advised by my Handler to pick up some of this and use use use use use use it before my next few shows. She says it works wonders. That's why I pay her to have my little girl WIN WIN WIN, so I'm going to try it.


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