# Can I start the slow growth plan on a 14-15 week old puppy?



## Toby&Bailey (Mar 15, 2012)

Hi, my name is Laura Poupart and I am the proud owner of two beautiful goldens. I recently got my golden puppy about 6/7 weeks ago. His name is Bailey and he is so gorgeous. I got him from 24k goldens in Exeter, CA. Joanne and Steve Scott are amazing breeders. 
Anyways, Bailey is about 14-15 weeks old now and I just recently read about the slow growth plan. I am a bit concerned because I want Bailey to reach his full growth potential and ward off unwanted diseases in the future. He weighs about 29-32lbs (I took him to the vet last week so I'm unsure if he gained some weight). I don't know if that is too heavy for a male of his age or if its not. He comes from great champion lines and both parents are relatively big. I wanted to know if its too late to get him on the program or if I'm just a worry wort. I feed him about 1 1/2 cups twice a day(with a couple treats here and there). What can I say, he's a puppy! Is it too late to cut back on his food? I also sometimes feed him a little hardboiled egg or cottage cheese as a little treat with his meals. Should I stop? Thanks so much!


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## darbysdad (Dec 23, 2011)

Someone should be able to help you out with this. I am constantly monitoring Darbys waistline, and just recently cut her back form 3 cups a day to 2 1/4. She is 16 weeks and weighs 32 pounds. Welcome to the forum.


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

Hmmm, I wouldn't know either, but maybe your breeder or one of the breeders here would. Our pup's been on the slow-growth plan since we got him; he weighs 26 lbs now at 16 weeks. I think he's 3 lbs above where he is "supposed" to be, but he is very muscular.

Anyway, the slow growth plan "ends" at 20 weeks, so with only 5 weeks to go, my gut feeling is that it's too late, by the time you tapered his food back. But, that's JMHO


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## coffenut (Jan 3, 2012)

I have to ask....what's the slow growth plan?


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## LovingBella (Oct 31, 2011)

I would love to see pictures of Bailey! We love puppy pictures!

I did the slow grow plan with Bella starting her at 8 weeks when we got her. She is 6 months now and 33 lbs. It may be a little late to start Bailey. Although you could try just not increasing his food portions over the next 5 weeks. The point is just not to overfeed so that they don't have extra weight on their developing joints. Better late than never right?


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

coffenut said:


> I have to ask....what's the slow growth plan?


This link explains:
http://www.goldenretriever.lv/rhonda_slow_grow.htm


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## LovingBella (Oct 31, 2011)

coffenut, 

Attached is a pdf of Rhonda Hovan's Slow Growth Plan.


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## Toby&Bailey (Mar 15, 2012)

I'm wondering if I was unknowingly on the slow growth plan already. I don't feed him but 1 cup to 1 1/2 cups of kibble twice a day since I got him when he was 8 weeks old. That amount doesn't seem like very much, and for only two meals a day. I mean sometimes I add fruit, veggies, yogurt, cottage cheese, eggs, ect.(not all at the same time) to his food as a treat once in a while. I've been taking him to the vet to get his 5-in-1 shots every 3 weeks and at the last vet visit(which was last week) he had gained about 9-10 pounds in 3 weeks. He is currently around 30-34 lbs and I just accurately counted that he is 16 weeks old today(maybe that makes a difference). It just seems to me that his genetics are whats causing his larger size, because he is completely proportional in terms of height and lenth. He is in no way plump or chubby but in no way is he tall, lanky or leggy. He is lean and his ribs are easily felt when you touch his chest(no fat covering them) and when I stand over him, he has a clearly defined waist. He was born on Thanksgiving 2011 so perhaps he is just a big turkey!


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

Actually if you read the slow-growth plan, it isn't really about preventing a plump/fat puppy:



> any excess food is first used for growth. That is, even if he is getting too much food, *the pup will not get fat -- he will simply grow faster*. By the time a pup actually looks or feels fat, he is already at an extreme, and growing far too rapidly.


A puppy who is not on this plan can and will look proportionate and most likely slender, however they will be bigger sooner than a slow-growth pup. That is more the point. It's not about fatness, it is about growth.

After thinking about it some more, and now knowing he is 16 weeks old, with the pup being already 30% to 47% larger than the advised size in the slow growth plan, I'd say it's far too late to start it. The growth has already happened.


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## Toby&Bailey (Mar 15, 2012)

When looking into the slow growth program, I absolutely do not believe in starving my puppy. Half a cup *a day*? Personally, it sounds somewhat ridiculous and cruel. I can appreciate the "potential" health benefits of the plan, but in no way will I starve or go over board with my puppy's food. I only give him about 2 cups per day which seems reasonable, and even that seems like a lesser amount compared to pups I've read that are being fed 4-5-6 cups per day at the same age or younger. I think Bailey is growing at a steady pace for his background and genetics. When he was 9 weeks he weighed about 12-13lbs and at 12-13 weeks about 16-18lbs and it has gradually increased since. If you deprive your puppy of food, there is no way it will get the proper development of muscle mass/bone growth needed, the puppy would most likely go into starvation mode and literally strip itself of remaining nutrients and muscle and voila, you would no longer have a beautiful full grown champion quality golden retriever. As for the exercise plan that goes along with the feeding plan, there is no amount of exercise that will bring back/improve/ gain muscle mass when the puppy is eating that little amount of food. If the goal is for the dog to be undergrown and skinny(no muscle), then count me out.


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## Toby&Bailey (Mar 15, 2012)

The people who feed their puppies 4-5-6 cups per day is extreme. I completely understand that those are the puppies that will certainly grow rapidly and become very plump and will have increased chance of disease later on. But, extremely underfeeding a puppy is doing harm as well. How will the puppy be able to grow when its being deprived of essential food for *essential* growth within the first 4 months? If the growth is slowed down too much then there is absolutely no way it would ever reach its full growth potential. 1/2 a cup per day does not equal to any form of muscle and or bone growth. I can only think of how it would comprimise the pup's immune system, nervous system and looks later on in life. A steady, constant diet of 2 cups of food per day is right in the middle; not too much nor too little. I am raising Bailey to be show quality since he was evaluted for show when he was 7 weeks. I believe in slowing the growth, but at a constant and steady pace. He will grow naturally. Just think about it, it sounds ridiculous to drastically underfeed, and by that much.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

I read through that plan fairly quickly, since Max is 4 years old it was just me being curious rather than something I'd consider. Not only did the amount of food seem terribly small, but the amount of exercise seemed a bit over the top. Three miles of walking a day for a puppy? We do a mile and a half and consider it a job well done! Who has that kind of time?


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## Nomes (Nov 7, 2011)

although it sounds like a good idea, the amount of food is pretty small and the exercise...wow! I'm not sure i would walk Casey that far right now and he's 6 months! Maybe i'm crazy, but i didn't think puppies were supposed to get that intense amount of exercise...
My "slow growth plan" with Casey was to always keep him at a healthy weight or a little bit below. I like to keep Casey on the skinny-er side just because he's going to be a big guy, and the less excess weight his joints have to carry, the better! Your vet would probably have a recommendation as to food amount. Just make sure Bailey doesn't get overweight. You want to be able to feel the ribs and spine pretty easily. I will say that Casey gets 3cups of food right now and it's keeping him at that perfect weight. And he's a crazy-energetic dog, so maybe re-evaluate the amount of food...? I know less that 3 doesn't seem like a lot, but then, Bailey only weighs 30 pounds and 3 cups of food probably weighs quite a bit!


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

Toby&Bailey said:


> When looking into the slow growth program, I absolutely do not believe in starving my puppy. Half a cup *a day*?


yes I agree that would be ridiculous, but the recommended amount of food is 3 times that. 1 1/2 cup per day and also it's recommended you increase the food to account for exercise. For example, we give our pup 2 to 2 1/2 cups per day, plus training treats, which I don't think is that small of an amount. If he acts hungry after a meal, I give him more food. IMO you just use common sense.

This isn't a new thing. It's been used for a very long time and all the dogs I've seen who were on it as pups are beautiful, big, healthy dogs. I'm not a proponent or an expert, but I don't think it's fair to say something is cruel until you have learned more about it.

Regarding the exercise, we just use common sense. Personally I like it because I'm a fit, active person and thoroughly enjoy a 2 or 3 mile walk. But if the pup is not enjoying it, you turn around and go home. Zeke usually loves his long walks but not always, so we don't always do it. And you don't start out one day walking a few miles, you build up to it. By all means a puppy can walk for 30 or 45 minutes or so, according to our vet.


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## Toby&Bailey (Mar 15, 2012)

Thank you for your advice/input. It seems to me that if you are on the slow growth plan and are giving your puppy 2 to 2 1/2 cups a day(which is exactly the same amount I give Bailey) then there is no reason to attack my methods if I am in fact doing the same thing. In the beginning I clearly stated the amount of food he eats in a day and how much he weighs. Instead of saying that its too late to put him on the growth plan and his growth already happened, it appears that he was already getting the right amount and is just going to be a bigger dog when full grown. I don't believe that his weight will make him grow too rapidly because every puppy is different, some are bigger, some are smaller and some are somwhere in between. According to the plan he should be around 21-23lbs but I find that a little too small for his frame. He supposed to be 75-80lbs when full grown. The plan is most likely not an exact science because in no way are all puppies of the same lines; they will grow naturally at different rates.


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

I was attacking? I'm not even going to respond to that other than to say that I stated facts and answered the question, while you used words like "cruel", "starve", "underfeed" and "ridiculous".


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## Toby&Bailey (Mar 15, 2012)

Toliva,
I apologize for my words towards you. I was/am merely frustrated at all the different information regarding a feeding plan as a whole. I hope we could move forward because I really do appreciate the information you've given me. I'm just trying to figure out a medium between underfeeding and overfeeding my pup, so sometimes conflicting facts are confusing. I would love to see some pictures of your puppy since our pups are around the same age. Here are some pictures of Bailey from 9 weeks to the present.


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

No worries Laura, and thank you for your kind words. I agree, there is a LOT of information out there and for every piece of information you find, you will find another piece that disputes it or someone who disagrees with it. 

Your pup is adorable and actually our pups look like the same size. I've got some pictures posted in the pictures section, but he has grown even since then (2 weeks ago i think?), so I will take some tomorrow.

You're doing a great job - he is beautiful


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

Here are some pictures I took this morning:


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## Toby&Bailey (Mar 15, 2012)

Your girls are just too cute. I bet they love having a puppy. Your puppy is beautiful and big! How much does he weigh? He looks great! 

Here are some pictures of Bailey to date:


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

Toby&Bailey said:


> Your girls are just too cute. I bet they love having a puppy. Your puppy is beautiful and big! How much does he weigh? He looks great!


Thanks! Yes, they adore their puppy. It's been a learning experience for all of us, but the kids have done really well, and he sure gets a lot of head kisses 

Bailey is adorable!

Zeke does look big, doesn't he? But he is only 26 lbs. I think he just looks big because of his proportions, and he is muscular. He is smaller than other goldens his age, but stockier, I think. He hasn't hit that lanky stage.

His parents both have broad chests and are average weight. Based on his parents we expect him to be 70-75 lbs.

Here is his mom, then dad:


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## Toby&Bailey (Mar 15, 2012)

His parents are gorgeous! He's going to be beautiful.

I know Bailey's mom is 60-65 lbs and his dad is 80lbs so we expect he'll be around 75-80lbs. I mean I've read people on the forum who feed their 3-7 month old pup 5 cups of kibble a day. I've told you that I only feed Bailey 2 to 2 1/2 cups per day and I was worried that he weighed too much. I thought I was feeding him too much food for his age. :doh: He's just starting the teething phase so I feezed carrots and his rope toy to help soothe his gums.

This is his mom: Pedigree: Am CH Scotts 24k Genesis Won Won

His dad: Pedigree: Am Ch Icarian Oahu's Yer Daddy

He's going to be a muscle man.


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

Toby&Bailey said:


> This is his mom: Pedigree: Am CH Scotts 24k Genesis Won Won
> 
> His dad: Pedigree: Am Ch Icarian Oahu's Yer Daddy
> 
> He's going to be a muscle man.


Very lovely parents!

Teething here too.... I found a tooth in the kitchen yesterday and the adult teeth coming in are bleeding. Poor fella.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Toby&Bailey,

You have my Jack's half brother! I'm certainly no expert on dogs, but with Jack (and our other 2) we fed them 1 cup of food 3 times per day as pups. With Jack he was started on Diamond Naturals LBP (which Steve and Joanne fed them) and then we transitioned him to Acana Grasslands at about 5 months old. 

Obviously our dogs' sires are different, but for some frame of reference, Jack is about 76-78 lbs at 2.5 years old. Summit (Jack's sire) and Nigel are similar in size, and Seymour (your Bailey's full older brother) is about he same size as Jack and he's about 17-18 months if I remember correctly. Jack is very conditioned though, as is Rocky (who is Jack's full brother) and I think Rocky weighs about the same, but you could double check that with Joanne. Jack could probably stand to gain a pound or so, according to his handler, so we're working on that the next few weeks.  (Here is a recent photo from last weekend at a show.) 

This forum is great, but I would also encourage you to talk to Joanne about any issues that arise. She has been a great source of information for us and I know she loves to stay in touch with puppy buyers


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## janababy (Jan 2, 2012)

One suggestion are vet told us to feel for the puppy's rib cage. I wasn't quite sure how it should feel. He said to feel the back of your hand. You should be able to feel the ribs like you do the bones in the back of your hand. If you can't feel that, to slightly cut back on their food.


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## Toby&Bailey (Mar 15, 2012)

goldenjackpuppy,

Thanks for your advice. It's so great that Jack and Bailey are half brothers. Joanne had mentioned your account on the forum. I was meaning to contact you because later this year I am picking up another male puppy from another one of Jenny's litters, but this time to show. We were looking to show Bailey but his litter was not evaluated for show quality. He is now 18 weeks old and is 35 lbs. Such a character too. We've met up with his full brother from the same litter earlier this week. It was great to see them play.

I would love to get your advice on how you groom/ trained Jack for show. Joanne had told me that a handler is quite expensive so I've been taking handling classes.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Toby&Bailey said:


> goldenjackpuppy,
> 
> Thanks for your advice. It's so great that Jack and Bailey are half brothers. Joanne had mentioned your account on the forum. I was meaning to contact you because later this year I am picking up another male puppy from another one of Jenny's litters, but this time to show. We were looking to show Bailey but his litter was not evaluated for show quality. He is now 18 weeks old and is 35 lbs. Such a character too. We've met up with his full brother from the same litter earlier this week. It was great to see them play.
> 
> I would love to get your advice on how you groom/ trained Jack for show. Joanne had told me that a handler is quite expensive so I've been taking handling classes.


I will PM you my email address if Joanne didn't already give it to you.


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## golden_eclipse (Apr 1, 2011)

Showing yourself is more fun, but actually can work out to be more expensive, if you plan on finishing the championship. I can imagine in California it is extremely competitive. 


My 13 week old is 20.4lbs and people keep saying she looks small  Although I hope to keep her growth on the slower side, I don't prescribe specifically to this plan. We have raised a lot of goldens to pass their clearances just fine, without shooting for certain weights at a certain ages. Every puppy is different, and whether the growth happens earlier or later, its still going to happen, and during that time you risk joint problems. 

A good diet, premium kibble or raw, moderate age appropriate exercise, and keeping them slim will go far. 

As a side note, I was at petco getting my pup a seat belt for the car and met an 88lb 9 month old golden retriever. They asked me about my puppy, and I let them know that we bred her, and show goldens. They then asked me what I thought of their boy, I politely let them know I thought he was over weight. They were feeding him 6 cups of Purinia puppy chow a day....I can't believe their vet never told them!


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