# Okay, why all of the sudden is she doing this?



## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

So Flora has been very, very timid of dogs her whole life. Like, terrified of them. But recently I've noticed a change in her behavior. There is a little black lab mix that my neighbors have, and they let her roam the street while they're outside drinking a beer or whatever. Twice now when the dog toddles up to Flora, Flora will FLIP OUT and chase the dog off her lawn. She never bites her or gets physically mean, but she runs that dog down until it is totally off our side of the street.

In the past Flora has always been the one being chased. Why now is she all of the sudden doing the chasing? Is this aggression? Should I be worried?

Obviously I'm going to be taking her out on a leash now, but... I've never seen her behave this way! I still occasionally allow her to meet dogs on walks and she's nothing but submissive, never growls or snaps.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Starting with the obvious: maybe she doesn't like black dogs. I've heard that a lot of dogs don't.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Oh yes, that is a definite yes. She hates them. But in the past when a black dog approached her she would cower and run away and they would chase her. Now it's reversed! Could be maybe it's just this particular dog, because as I said every other dog she meets (on a leash) she is fine with.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Flora is now two years old, which is the classic age of social maturity. A fearful dog will frequently become offensively aggressive at this age, especially if they have developed a dislike for a certain type of dogs, like black dogs.

Can you have her meet this dog in a neutral location? It may lessen her reaction for the future.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

It's unlikely I could arrange that type of meeting. They're college kids, I'm a college kid, we're never at home at the same time.

I'm being very careful about not letting her out into the yard without a leash. We live on a dead end street so before all this she was totally fine being off leash, she would just wander around the front yard and do her thing, but now every time she goes out she wants to make a beeline for that dog's house. It's so strange! There are other dogs in the neighborhood - like a loose chihuahua - that she doesn't look twice at.

I suppose you're right. Maybe she's grown up enough that her fear of black dogs has turned into an aggression towards them. I will have to remember that.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

I wonder if it could be a territorial thing? Do the other dogs in the neighborhood come into Flora's yard? 

I don't know about the "why", but Riley's behavior changed suddenly like that, too. And it happened with the same dog. One day, he was standing a couple feet away from her, just trying to ignore her. The next day, he was barking and lunging, trying to chase her away. I don't know what happened. Obviously, something was communicated between them that I didn't catch.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Selli-Belle said:


> Flora is now two years old, which is the classic age of social maturity. A fearful dog will frequently become offensively aggressive at this age, especially if they have developed a dislike for a certain type of dogs, like black dogs.


What she said. 

I'm sure you've already been through behaviourists but if you haven't and can at all afford it I would seek one out as this type of behaviour is self-rewarding if dogs run away every time she does it.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

LifeOfRiley said:


> I wonder if it could be a territorial thing? Do the other dogs in the neighborhood come into Flora's yard?
> 
> I don't know about the "why", but Riley's behavior changed suddenly like that, too. And it happened with the same dog. One day, he was standing a couple feet away from her, just trying to ignore her. The next day, he was barking and lunging, trying to chase her away. I don't know what happened. Obviously, something was communicated between them that I didn't catch.


It's possible! I'm hoping I can catch that dog outside one of these days when Flora is on a leash and maybe the two of them can have a more polite interaction.

When they first met - the black dog ran over into our yard and started chasing Flora - Flora was her usual self: nervous, timid, wanted to run away... so maybe she just finally had enough of being pursued and decided to become the pursuer. : And as I said before, this is the ONLY dog she does this with. Every other dog she meets she still either ignores or runs away from them.

If I could afford a personal trainer I would, but... I'm barely scraping enough together to buy myself food. I'll just continue keeping her on a leash and if I see the dog loose again I will make sure that their interactions take place somewhere neutral, like the street.

It's just strange because it's so not Flora-like behavior! For a brief, fleeting moment I was actually sort of proud that she finally summoned up the courage to chase off a dog rather than run screaming to her mommy.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

bumping up maybe RedDogs or FlyingQuizini will have some info for you


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

BeauShel said:


> bumping up maybe RedDogs or FlyingQuizini will have some info for you


Thanks Carol! 

It's not like, a super concerning issue for me, I just find it really strange that she went from this shrinking violet to this completely different animal. We live with 2 other dogs and she's totally fine with them - ignores them for the most part, although she does love on the old dog often.

Is it possible for dogs to just really, really dislike one particular dog? I try not to humanize Flora and this seems like a human sort of behavior, but maybe dogs do it too.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Running away from a dog and being offensively aggressive are actually really closely related behaviours since both probably stem from fear. The vet behaviourist I work with at the shelter recently told me that the majority of young pups who hide or run from other dogs will show fear aggression in an offensive manner when they are older at least some of the time.


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## Rhapsody in Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Our Melody has always been very even tempered. As she has matured, she is very maternal and will assert herself - something that took me by surprise. If another dog is pushy, her posture changes and she gives a warning. At the dog park, her younger sister, Gracie, is one the bigger dogs follow around. I have been amazed at how Melody will step in - physically she will step in between another dog and her sibling - and she will give out a warning growl if another dog is raising a ruckus.

These are good qualities - I was very surprised - but I let her handle it. Once you get to know the body language, you can tell what is going on. She also became my echo - if I call the dogs in, she barks and calls them in, too. She'll even paw at them to get them into the car or in the house. 

This could be what you are seeing in Flora as she matures. I think, its a good thing. More importantly, if I tell Melody to quiet down, she listens. If I call her back, she comes to me.

I think aggression is so misunderstood - if you have an aggressive dog, you know it. 

It also could be that Flora is enjoying the chase - she may be barking to indicate her excitement - she may want to play but is unsure. Try to get a sense of her body language - what does it tell you? I have taken videos of my dogs while they are interacting with other dogs at the park. Its fascinating to replay the video moment by moment and view it that way. You see everything you miss - its very interesting - and helpful if you are trying to learn about the language of dogs.

I really doubt Flora is aggressive.


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## Summer's Mom (Oct 20, 2010)

It is likely with the cowering and backing away she was being fearful and giving out warning signals. If the dog continues to approach it tells her that her signals aren't being heard, so she ups it a notch. "get off my lawn! Go away!" 

It is possible if the dog continues to approach she may resort to the next level which is growling or snapping.. And so on.

You could either manage her by preventing her from being in such a situation, or work on changing her reactions to such situations. Classical-conditioning is a good place to start. We did that with Summer and she is far less reactive now.. 

Whatever you do, don't let her practice the behavior because if it escalates it'll be far harder to rehabilitate.. I know you say it's not a concern now.. But just saying.. 

P.S. I'm not an expert!


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

kdmarsh said:


> It's possible! I'm hoping I can catch that dog outside one of these days when Flora is on a leash and maybe the two of them can have a more polite interaction.
> 
> When they first met - the black dog ran over into our yard and started chasing Flora - Flora was her usual self: nervous, timid, wanted to run away... so maybe she just finally had enough of being pursued and decided to become the pursuer. : And as I said before, this is the ONLY dog she does this with. Every other dog she meets she still either ignores or runs away from them.
> 
> It's just strange because it's so not Flora-like behavior! For a brief, fleeting moment I was actually sort of proud that she finally summoned up the courage to chase off a dog rather than run screaming to her mommy.


I tend to look at it the same way that Summer's Mom described. If their signals aren't being heard, they'll usually decide to up the ante, so to speak. 
I think that's exactly what happened with Riley, and it sounds like it might be what's happening with Flora. At first, she tried to avoid this other dog. She wanted it to go away. When her "leave me alone" signals weren't heard, she learned that she'll have to be a little more proactive and make her signals a little more unmistakable (chase the other dog away.)

What happened with Riley was very similar. I think he probably gave the other dog about a million "go away/leave me alone" signals, but because they were both on-leash and the other owner and I were standing there chatting, it didn't happen. I think he must have felt the need, at that point, to make himself a bit more clear.
I would caution you to be careful from here on out and don't take the fact that she stood up for herself too lightly. Hopefully the trainers here can give you some real good advice about how to handle it. I, obviously, did everything wrong when it happened with Riley. When he tried to chase that other dog away, I wasn't real sure how to handle it and didn't want to do the _wrong_ thing, so we just decided to mozy along. Right there, that told Riley that his bullying worked. It got him away from the other dog, which is exactly what he wanted. From that day on, he started reacting like that to almost every dog we encountered. We'd pass them on a walk and he would give a little bark and a lunge, like he was telling them "you stay away from me." It got to be a problem.

Now, we're to a point where his reactions to other dogs really vary. Some dogs he'll react to and some he won't. But it's taken a lot of work to get back to this point, all because I unwittingly let him get away with it once.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Perhaps aggressive isn't the right term, but reactive definitely is. Depending on the dog, Flora's reactions can range from "Who cares?" to "GET AWAY!"

One time at a baseball park a woman was walking her 3 dalmations off leash. They were super calm but very interested in Flora. I probably did the wrong thing by letting them continuously try to sniff her butt, because after 5 minutes or so of her wandering around trying to get away from them, she finally hid underneath my car and started snapping at them if they got too close.

She'll do the same thing with my roommate's friend's lab mix - when the dog is over Flora will sit on my bed and literally chase the dog off if she so much as looks at my room. The other dogs can come and go as they please, she has absolutely no issues with them.

What I try to do when Flora sees a dog that I can tell makes her nervous is put her into a sit and just sort of stand there with her, allowing to watch the dog from a distance. Oftentimes I will walk her by a local dog park and sit on a bench so she can watch the dogs but still feel safe because she's on the other side of the fence. Is this wrong? 

I know she'll never be... comfortable with all dogs. But after reading this - especially LifeofRiley's experience - I do not want to end up with an overly reactive animal. As it stands, on most walks when we encounter another dog she will simply switch over to the side furthest away from the animal and ignore it. I'd like to keep things that way. :


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

kdmarsh said:


> *Perhaps aggressive isn't the right term, but reactive definitely is. Depending on the dog, Flora's reactions can range from "Who cares?" to "GET AWAY!"*
> 
> I know she'll never be... comfortable with all dogs. But after reading this - especially LifeofRiley's experience - I do not want to end up with an overly reactive animal. As it stands, on most walks when we encounter another dog she will simply switch over to the side furthest away from the animal and ignore it. I'd like to keep things that way. :


God - that's Riley, _exactly! _(If I didn't know better, I'd wonder if they came from the same litter.)

I always describe Riley's behavior as "fear-defensive" rather than "fear-aggressive." He really doesn't want to get after the other dog - he's not trying to pick a fight - he just wants it to go away. 
If he knows that a certain dog isn't going to bother him, he can pass within a few feet of it and barely gives it a glance. But if it's a dog that he knows is way too interested in him, and might just try to bother him, he'll bark and give a little lunge from twenty feet away.
Like I said, though - it's taken some work to get him _back_ to that point.

And no - you definitely don't want an overly reactive dog! It's not fun.
I've been treating and praising Riley when he passes other dogs with nothing more than a glance, or a curious look. I redirect/interrupt him when he starts staring or is too concerned about the other dog. I go out of my way to avoid situations or encounters (as much as possible) where I know he's likely to react in a bad way. I don't want him practicing his bully behavior.
I really don't know if that's the right or wrong thing to do. It seems to be working for Riley, but I don't know if it would be the right approach for Flora. God knows I'm no expert - I'm just sort of winging it! 
Hopefully the trainers will weigh-in on this and can give you some good advice!


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

It sounds as if Flora is suffering from a severe lack of confidence! Unfortunately (and fortunately) dogs are quite quick about discovering which other dogs have confidence and which don't. Bully dogs will take advantage of dogs who lack confidence will they will leave confident dogs alone.

Now the thing is to build up Flora's confidence. I would do two things, the first is to control Flora's meetings with other dogs. If you can't be sure it will be a positive polite meeting avoid it. If you are in a situation where you can't avoid it, take charge of the meeting. In the situation with the dalmations, after they went past the polite sniff my butt 10 seconds, I would have moved Flora well away from them, or asked the owner to call them away from Flora. The extended butt sniffing was impolite and a bullying behavior. If you can model good behavior for Flora (as in polite short meeting, them walk away) she will feel more confident.

The second is to really up formal training with Flora. Not necessarily in a class setting, but teach a really nice formal heal and work on rally obedience. This all may seem pointless, but it is amazing how formal training gives a dog confidence. Another thing to think about is once you get Flora well trained (formally), you can take her to a place where are a lot of well behaved controlled dogs, i.e., a obedience or rally trial. I have know people with reactive dogs who have brought them to agility trials and walked through the crating area (be aware that many trials do not allow dogs who are not entered to be on the grounds, so check it out before you go). Most agility dogs completely ignore other dogs and are relaxed and confident in their surroundings. The reactive dog calms down and learns that other dogs do not mean danger. That relaxed state equals more confidence and that causes bully dogs to not try impolite behavior with your dog.

As in humans, the basis of bully behavior in dogs is often fear and lack of confidence, so a young fearful dog can turn into a bully dog unless he gains confidence. With confidence comes the knowledge that it is highly unlikely that the other dog is going to mess with me, and if it does, I with my human, can manage the situation. Given this scenario, problems rarely occur!

Good luck and good training.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Selli-Belle said:


> It sounds as if Flora is suffering from a severe lack of confidence! Unfortunately (and fortunately) dogs are quite quick about discovering which other dogs have confidence and which don't. Bully dogs will take advantage of dogs who lack confidence will they will leave confident dogs alone.
> 
> Now the thing is to build up Flora's confidence. I would do two things, the first is to control Flora's meetings with other dogs. If you can't be sure it will be a positive polite meeting avoid it. If you are in a situation where you can't avoid it, take charge of the meeting. In the situation with the dalmations, after they went past the polite sniff my butt 10 seconds, I would have moved Flora well away from them, or asked the owner to call them away from Flora. The extended butt sniffing was impolite and a bullying behavior. If you can model good behavior for Flora (as in polite short meeting, them walk away) she will feel more confident.
> 
> ...


Thank you!!! Maybe some of the time we spend running around in local field I can devote to working on a heel and some basic commands.

Flora has been this way from day 1. I entered her in puppy class at the age of 9 weeks per the suggestion of the instructor - she said due to Flora's extreme timidity around other dogs that I should expose her to them as much as possible. It was REALLY hard in class - the socialization was super controlled and the teacher was great about making sure never to push Flora, but at the end of the 6 weeks the best Flora did was nervously sniff another dog before wanting to pull away.

Unfortunately being the new owner of a puppy I did some things I shouldn't have done, like take her to dog parks and allow her to be bullied, or let my neighbor's black lab puppy torment her because I thought they were "playing."

As I said she's good around my roomie's dog; LOVES the elderly dog and lol, she'll flip over onto her back and expose herself in submission to my roommate's 10lb papillion. It's a funny image. 

I definitely do not want her becoming a bully. I have been slacking on her obedience training so hopefully working on that again will help.

LifeOfRiley - do you ever think you'll want a second dog? What will you do in that case? I've often thought about that myself but I'm concerned that Flora would make a mess of things. Lol, I may just end up fostering/owning super old dogs, as they're the only kind of dog that Flora actually LIKES.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

kdmarsh said:


> LifeOfRiley - do you ever think you'll want a second dog? What will you do in that case? I've often thought about that myself but I'm concerned that Flora would make a mess of things. Lol, I may just end up fostering/owning super old dogs, as they're the only kind of dog that Flora actually LIKES.


I don't know. I can't see us adding a second dog. We've talked about it in a "maybe someday" kind of way, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. He does much better with little dogs (actually seems to _like_ Shi Tzus, for some reason) so that might be an option if we ever decided to think seriously about it.
But honestly, the longer we go with just Riley, the less I can imagine having another dog in the house again. I really love being able to give him all my time and attention. I won't say "never"... but I think it's very unlikely.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Sounds like she's had enough and she's not gonna take it anymore!


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I would have never thought Gunner would adjust to us getting another dog after Selka died. He had been around Selka and his brothers his entire life but all new strange dogs he hated. (fear aggression)
We worked with him when Sasha came. Kept Sasha on a leash to give Gunner some distance. Within weeks they were good buds.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

LifeOfRiley said:


> I don't know. I can't see us adding a second dog. We've talked about it in a "maybe someday" kind of way, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. He does much better with little dogs (actually seems to _like_ Shi Tzus, for some reason) so that might be an option if we ever decided to think seriously about it.
> But honestly, the longer we go with just Riley, the less I can imagine having another dog in the house again. I really love being able to give him all my time and attention. I won't say "never"... but I think it's very unlikely.


Hah, as you said, if I didn't know better I would say Flora and Riley are from the same litter. She too is much better with little dogs (maybe it's because she's lived with two for over a year now), but I'm really a big dog person. Old big dogs she can handle and actually seems to gravitate towards for some reason. Maybe she's old in spirit. 

And Debles, that makes me happy to hear! As much as I say I'd never get another puppy I would actually like to get a relatively young dog next time but I keep thinking that it would never work with Flora. You give me hope. Of course, I won't be adding another dog for a LONG LONG time, but I like to plan ahead, lol.


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## Summer's Mom (Oct 20, 2010)

kdmarsh said:


> What I try to do when Flora sees a dog that I can tell makes her nervous is put her into a sit and just sort of stand there with her, allowing to watch the dog from a distance. Oftentimes I will walk her by a local dog park and sit on a bench so she can watch the dogs but still feel safe because she's on the other side of the fence. Is this wrong?
> 
> I know she'll never be... comfortable with all dogs. But after reading this - especially LifeofRiley's experience - I do not want to end up with an overly reactive animal. As it stands, on most walks when we encounter another dog she will simply switch over to the side furthest away from the animal and ignore it. I'd like to keep things that way. :


Just saw this - sounds like what u are doing is good. If you are far away enough for her not to react you are below "threshold" and that is great. Now - you're letting her know that the dogs are not dangerous/nasty, but whats better is if we can condition her to feel "good" and safe around them.

With Summer we use a method called counter-conditioning, we use food. Food is powerful for dogs and causes release of neurotransmitters in the brain that help her make positive associations.. Whenever u see a dog on a walk, get her to sit like u do and feed her a steady stream of something good (we use tiny chunks of chicken) until its passed by. You can do the same at the bench near the park.. Just feed feed reed as she remains calm.. 

It takes a while and I never expected it to work but now Summer actually doesn't react as much. When she sees a stimulus (for her it was people too) she remains calm and sometimes turns back like "wheres my chicken mom?"

Its important to make sure Flora never crosses her threshold and reacts, cos that sets u back a fair bit each time.. 

If you choose to try this, good luck! Its not much more work than what you are already doing.. 

Rileysmom, maybe u can try this too!  

No harm trying, but no problem if you don't want to either! Its working for us!


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

kdmarsh said:


> Hah, as you said, if I didn't know better I would say Flora and Riley are from the same litter. She too is much better with little dogs (maybe it's because she's lived with two for over a year now), but I'm really a big dog person. Old big dogs she can handle and actually seems to gravitate towards for some reason. Maybe she's old in spirit.


I really don't know what it is with the little dogs! I've always heard trainers and behaviorists say that dogs really have no concept of size, and yet Riley doesn't seem to feel threatened by them at all. They can be barking, growling and lunging at him and he'll just glance at them like, "Whatever." If a medium-sized or large dog does that, it's on! So he HAS to feel more confident around the little ones. He has to understand that they're little and aren't as much of a threat to him. 



Summer's Mom said:


> Rileysmom, maybe u can try this too!


What you described sounds pretty much like what I'm doing with Riley. The only difference, I think, is that we generally continue to walk past the other dogs, as long as there's enough distance between us for me to feel that Riley won't react. (And he does the same thing - glances at the other dog and then looks at me like "Where's my cookie?" lol.) If it's unavoidable and the other dog is too close, I do have him sit and give him treats until they pass.
It's been very, very slow-going, but it is working. The trick is avoiding setbacks, I think. We met a 6-month-old Great Dane pup last weekend. He was maybe ten feet away from Riley and was bouncing all over the place, wanting to play. Even gave Riley the play bow. I was thinking, "Oh #$%$, here we go"... just SURE that Riley was going to react, but he didn't! He was wary, but calm - no growl, no lunging, nothing. I praised him all the way home for that one!


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## Summer's Mom (Oct 20, 2010)

LifeOfRiley said:


> What you described sounds pretty much like what I'm doing with Riley. The only difference, I think, is that we generally continue to walk past the other dogs, as long as there's enough distance between us for me to feel that Riley won't react. (And he does the same thing - glances at the other dog and then looks at me like "Where's my cookie?" lol.) If it's unavoidable and the other dog is too close, I do have him sit and give him treats until they pass.
> It's been very, very slow-going, but it is working. The trick is avoiding setbacks, I think. We met a 6-month-old Great Dane pup last weekend. He was maybe ten feet away from Riley and was bouncing all over the place, wanting to play. Even gave Riley the play bow. I was thinking, "Oh #$%$, here we go"... just SURE that Riley was going to react, but he didn't! He was wary, but calm - no growl, no lunging, nothing. I praised him all the way home for that one!


Yay for Riley!! I love those breakthrough moments.. :bowl:

Summer is an oddball. She sometimes is scared and she lunges or growls, on the other hand she offers playbows and goes on to play well with most "normal" dogs. This is assuming they invited her to play and didnt give her a stinkeye.. So, I don't really know whats ok and not ok for her. We need to work on that!

She also used to cower and drop her tail at passing people, but we're sorta over that bit, unless someone approaches her head on, or reaches out for her. She's built up enough confidence (or positive associations with food) to approach people slowly on her own and has a preference for passive strangers - those who dont try to smother her.. We still limit her encounters with everyone/thing because we have to be sure they are all positive experiences..

I know Flora has always been shy, but did Riley have a sudden turning point? Summer was a very "normal" and friendly puppy! I was really sad when all this started..


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Summer's Mom said:


> Yay for Riley!! I love those breakthrough moments.. :bowl:
> 
> Summer is an oddball. She sometimes is scared and she lunges or growls, on the other hand she offers playbows and goes on to play well with most "normal" dogs. This is assuming they invited her to play and didnt give her a stinkeye.. So, I don't really know whats ok and not ok for her. We need to work on that!
> 
> ...


Yeah, there was a definite turning point for Riley. On one of our morning walks, a neighbor's crazy Irish Setter came charging across the lawn and literally jumped on him. The other dog just wanted to play, but it scared the bejeezus out of Riley. And then the dog was running circles around him, barking, and the dog's owner was running around trying to catch him. It was all really chaotic and from that day on, he's been afraid of other dogs and shy with strangers. And I don't really understand it - he was a fearless pup until that happened. (He was a year old at the time.) It seems strange that one incident could have had such an impact on him.

It sounds like he's a lot like Summer, when it comes to people. He's usually okay as long as they don't march right up to him and stick a hand out. He'll shy away if they do that. If they let him approach them, he's usually okay. And if someone just walks past him without paying any attention at all, he's so curious that he'll turn around and try to follow them! lol.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Well, good news and bad news! We've been on several walks lately and she has passed by black dogs with little to no reaction. She still tenses up, but there was no growling or lunging or anything like that. I'm going to take some food with me on our future walks though and kind of further work on conditioning her to be accepting of other dogs. When we pass by a dog that makes her noticeably uncomfortable I have been putting her in a sit and just sort of pet her head, but I'm going to try coupling it with food as well.

The bad news is one of my roommate's friends brought his little dachshund over and Flora was so mean to him that I had to put her up in my room. Every time he approached her she would lash out at him, and once the poor little guy tried to enter my bedroom... Flora LEAPT off the bed and snarled at him. I don't know what it is with her! She allows my roommate's dogs to enter my bedroom with little more than a glance in their direction. I don't think she would hurt the dog and I did wonder if I just let them interact for a while if she'd settle down, but he was small enough that I didn't want to take the chance of Flora injuring him.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

kdmarsh said:


> Well, good news and bad news! We've been on several walks lately and she has passed by black dogs with little to no reaction. She still tenses up, but there was no growling or lunging or anything like that. I'm going to take some food with me on our future walks though and kind of further work on conditioning her to be accepting of other dogs. When we pass by a dog that makes her noticeably uncomfortable I have been putting her in a sit and just sort of pet her head, but I'm going to try coupling it with food as well.
> 
> The bad news is one of my roommate's friends brought his little dachshund over and Flora was so mean to him that I had to put her up in my room. Every time he approached her she would lash out at him, and once the poor little guy tried to enter my bedroom... Flora LEAPT off the bed and snarled at him. I don't know what it is with her! She allows my roommate's dogs to enter my bedroom with little more than a glance in their direction. I don't think she would hurt the dog and I did wonder if I just let them interact for a while if she'd settle down, but he was small enough that I didn't want to take the chance of Flora injuring him.


Sometimes it seems like it's always two steps forward, one step back, doesn't it?

It's great that she's been able to pass by some dogs without reacting! I would definitely keep working on that.
I wonder about making her sit when other dogs pass, though. I used to do that with Riley and then I had one of those eureka moments and realized that it might be making matters worse. I would choke up on the leash, make him sit and even though I would talk to him in a reassuring voice and give him a treat for being calm, what we were _doing _told him that there was something to be concerned about. For lack of a better way to describe it, I think putting him in a sit sort of made him think that we were bracing for something. I really think it told him that the other dog was something _I_ was worried about. My actions told him "Uh oh, here comes another dog."

I've started making sure that there's enough distance between him and the other dog so that I don't have to make him sit. We just keep walking and instead of the reassuring "it's okay" stuff, and petting his head, I've started acting more upbeat. I do the "look at that!" or the "what is that?! Yeah, that's another dog!" thing and give him really good treats. Knock on wood, and I hate to even say it, but it seems to be working. I had tried that before and it didn't seem to do the trick, but since I've gone back to it, it seems to be working very well. Granted, there are times when the other dog is just too close and I have to put Riley in a sit, just to make sure that I have control of the situation. I try to avoid that, though.

Has she ever met this dachshund before? If it were me (and take it for what it's worth - god knows I'm no expert!) I would let her interact ONLY with dogs that you know she's okay with, for now. Keep her in situations where you know she's going to react the way you want her to and avoid situations where she might react "badly." You want to set her up to succeed. For now, I would really keep her interactions with new or strange dogs at a distance and very controlled. But again, I'm hardly an expert...!


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

I've been really busy and I just saw this...I haven't read through all the replies (...yet? I night try to later!).

Dogs have a continuum of "go away" signals. The smallest, most "polite" ones are things like looking away, moving away, lip licks. If those aren't getting the response...dogs will escalate. At the other end of the continuum is barking-lunging-growling.

Her go away signals weren't working, she felt she had to escalate. It's still very much from fear and still won't get better without being addressed. We want to try to only be at the "safe distance" from other dogs where they aren't so bad and we want to not only be at that distance, but use the highest value reinforcers available. (Tolerating isnt good enough, we want her to LOVE seeing dogs at that distance).

In the meantime, I'd avoid every close encounter you can... it will only get worse if she realizes that (1) other dogs respond and are REALLY scary (2) the charging doesn't work and she has to escalate more (3) She realizes it works quite well and is thus reinforced for it

If you are in a situation, call her back or go get her... but work hard not ot be punishing her or increasing her anxiety about the situation. If you are walking on leash and she starts, hastily move away while shoveling food in her mouth.

If I miss any more responses, feel free to PM....! I get email reminders about that and I do try to check.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Flora is so strange. She saw the black lab yesterday that had started this whole thread and... was totally fine with her. The dog was, as usual, prowling around our yard unleashed, and hah, once the owners saw Flora out they quickly grabbed their dog and brought her into their house. Guess they think Flora's mean.  

As for the dachshund she's met the dog before, very briefly... the dog is actually quite submissive and shy so I was surprised that she was so nasty to it.

Since I last posted Flora has been perfect on leash. Yesterday a large huskie jerked at his leash and growled at Flora and she hardly spared him a glance. Also yesterday a guy lost control of his HUGE black lab and the dog came charging after us. I managed to step in between him and Flora and grab his leash before he bowled over Flora, and aside from keeping her distance, Flora seemed totally unperturbed. I was shocked, really, because she does not like black dogs.

Bah, I don't know! She's so hard to figure out. Some days she's a mess around other dogs and other days she seems like she couldn't care less.

Reddogs - I will admit that in the past when she was much younger I unfortunately missed her warning signals. She was REALLY good about them too, and would let a dog torment her for quite a while before she had to resort to growling and snapping. She has been terribly shy of other dogs since day 1, but I am responsible for allowing it to escalate.

I have been doing what you guys have suggested and feeding her treats every time she has a positive reaction to a passing dog. I also verbally praise her. I generally only make her sit AFTER the dog has passed, and allow her to watch the animal walk away while petting her and acting nonchalant. This is only for the certain dog that visibly makes her anxious. Some dogs, as I said, don't elicit any reaction from her.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

I am so happy to hear that for whatever reason she is doing better. Keep up the positive reinforcement. If you don't have one already, invest in a treat pouch, and never leave home without it. You can use two assortments of treats, low value ones and really high value ones for when you get into a situation like a dog off leash, etc.


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