# how much of grain free do you feed per day?



## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

I wouldn't keep taking food away. You could add some canned pumpkin or even throw in a few mini wheat cereal to give the dog some fiber to bind up the poop! You could also add some rice/boiled chicken to help bind things up.

A 75 lb dog should be getting 2.5-3.0 cups a day if he's active. Look at the calories on the bag, that will be the biggest deciding factor on how much to feed. If the grain free has less calories than the ALS, you need to feed more grain free.


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## TonyRay (Feb 5, 2008)

ok..
our girls weigh approx 84 and 79 lbs.
they are fed Grain free Taste of the wild formulas .375 calories per cup.

we alternate at times to Canidae Platinum. 330 calories per cup.

each girl is given 2 cups per day to maintain there weight..how do we keep them from being hungry all the time?

we add a cup of pure protien, zero calories un-salted stringbeans to there food.....
they are eating 3 cups of food per day each but only 2 cups of actuall kibble.
works for us..


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## Rctriplefresh5! (Mar 24, 2010)

CarolinaCasey said:


> I wouldn't keep taking food away. You could add some canned pumpkin or even throw in a few mini wheat cereal to give the dog some fiber to bind up the poop! You could also add some rice/boiled chicken to help bind things up.
> 
> A 75 lb dog should be getting 2.5-3.0 cups a day if he's active. Look at the calories on the bag, that will be the biggest deciding factor on how much to feed. If the grain free has less calories than the ALS, you need to feed more grain free.


yeah but i've heard on grain free you should feed less.
how long do i feed the canned pumpkin? i mean ive been switching him over for a month already, he shouldnt be having soft stools!
also how much do i give per day?

while i agree calories are important for determining amount of food, richness is important too. canidae has 4000 plus calories but only 25 protein. grain free canidae has 3900 calories but 34 percent protein!

those are the kcal/kg numbers haah but the difference is the same ha./


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Only a 1-2 tablespoons of canned pumpkin on the kibble at meal time. Try this for a few days. If there isn't much improvement you should probably switch back to the ALS formula.

If there are no grain allergies that you're aware of, you should probably stick to what works. High protein foods sometimes don't work with all dogs and will give diarrhea. Same thing happened to my cat when transitions SUPER slowly to Blue Buffalo from Purina Pro Plan. It was so bad we went back to what worked.


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## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

The grain free may be giving him the loose stool. That is the experience I had with my dog. It may just not agree with him.


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## Rctriplefresh5! (Mar 24, 2010)

CarolinaCasey said:


> Only a 1-2 tablespoons of canned pumpkin on the kibble at meal time. Try this for a few days. If there isn't much improvement you should probably switch back to the ALS formula.
> 
> If there are no grain allergies that you're aware of, you should probably stick to what works. High protein foods sometimes don't work with all dogs and will give diarrhea. Same thing happened to my cat when transitions SUPER slowly to Blue Buffalo from Purina Pro Plan. It was so bad we went back to what worked.


well its just soft, not really diarrhea. i mean it comes out fine, then when i poke it with a stick it is really mushy and breaks apart. i dont want him on grain foods. i believe all dogs have allergies to them, and id ont feel comfortable putting him on a non meat based food. canidaes new formula is grain heavy. anyway, how long do you suggest keeping him on the canned pumpkin? should i still use 2 cups a day of kibble now or go up or down? im pretty confused.

he seems to be doing jut as well if not better now, then he was on ALS. i just never checked his poop on als. i know im a bad person ha!


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

My Tia eats Taste of the Wild, and she gets a total of 1 cup/day, half in the morning and half in the evening. But she's a little girl at less than 45 pounds.


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## Rctriplefresh5! (Mar 24, 2010)

Rctriplefresh5! said:


> well its just soft, not really diarrhea. i mean it comes out fine, then when i poke it with a stick it is really mushy and breaks apart. i dont want him on grain foods. i believe all dogs have allergies to them, and id ont feel comfortable putting him on a non meat based food. canidaes new formula is grain heavy. anyway, how long do you suggest keeping him on the canned pumpkin? should i still use 2 cups a day of kibble now or go up or down? im pretty confused.
> 
> he seems to be doing jut as well if not better now, then he was on ALS. i just never checked his poop on als. i know im a bad person ha!


the guidelines say for a light./senior 75 dog to feed 1.5 cups a day

and a regular adult with excerscise feed 3. shanes not super active cause its been cold here, so ive been feeding 2 cups. hes 6 and turns 7 in jne.

http://www.canidae.com/dogs/grain-free-als/dry.html


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Each dogs needs are different. Figure out how many calories/day he was getting on the old food and he would need the equal amount of calories in the new food. That may mean less food, perhaps not.... check the calorie count of the food. If you've transitioned slowly and his stools are loose, he perhaps cannot tolerate the richer food. For example, my goldens eat approx. 900 calories/ day, with my 65 lb girl able to eat more and stay thin than Penny (70 lbs) who has to be pretty active to eat 850'ish cals/ day. My 55 pound springer maintains weight on the same number of calories/day that the goldens eat, and he is not as active.
Pumpkin can firm stools, but I wouldn't keep him on a food that needs pumpkin consistently for firm stools. (MHO)


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## kgiff (Jul 21, 2008)

Each dog is different as far as how much food they need and what works for them. 

- My 72 pound bernese mountain dog gets 2 cups a day, but he's not all that active.
- My 70 pound golden gets 2.25 - 2.75 cups a day depending on how active he is.
- My 46 pound golden gets 2-2.5 cups a day -- he's a lot more of a busy body than the others. His stool will also get loose if I feed him any more than that.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Tinkerbell is 75 pounds and eats 2 cups of Wellness Core reduced fat a day. I give her 1 cup in the morning with a couple spoonfuls of yogurt (hides her medications). At dinner another cup with a handful of fresh or frozen veggies. She loves greenbeans, broccoli, tomatoes, lettuce etc.


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## Rctriplefresh5! (Mar 24, 2010)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Each dogs needs are different. Figure out how many calories/day he was getting on the old food and he would need the equal amount of calories in the new food. That may mean less food, perhaps not.... check the calorie count of the food. If you've transitioned slowly and his stools are loose, he perhaps cannot tolerate the richer food. For example, my goldens eat approx. 900 calories/ day, with my 65 lb girl able to eat more and stay thin than Penny (70 lbs) who has to be pretty active to eat 850'ish cals/ day. My 55 pound springer maintains weight on the same number of calories/day that the goldens eat, and he is not as active.
> Pumpkin can firm stools, but I wouldn't keep him on a food that needs pumpkin consistently for firm stools. (MHO)


well, he was free fed, but i guesstimated he ate about 3 cups daily of canidae als. i put 3 qts in a bowl, and he ate whatever he wanted, but i could get a guess, and i guess he chose 3 cups. but 100 calories of one food is not equal to 100 calories of another. if my dog needs 3000 calories of science diet hypothetically to maintain weight, he miight only need 200 calories of orijen to maintain. that's what makes this so hard. its not jsut calories, like youve all said, the food is RICH. ive heard so many things about feeding low amounts of super protein foods!


kgiff said:


> Each dog is different as far as how much food they need and what works for them.
> 
> - My 72 pound bernese mountain dog gets 2 cups a day, but he's not all that active.
> - My 70 pound golden gets 2.25 - 2.75 cups a day depending on how active he is.
> - My 46 pound golden gets 2-2.5 cups a day -- he's a lot more of a busy body than the others. His stool will also get loose if I feed him any more than that.


are your bernese mountain dog and your 46 pound golden both puppies? 70 for a berner is around 30 pounds below average. and 46 for a golden around 30 below also, maybe 25.

shane is not active at all, because its cold out now, so i havent been walking him.:no:


marshab1 said:


> Tinkerbell is 75 pounds and eats 2 cups of Wellness Core reduced fat a day. I give her 1 cup in the morning with a couple spoonfuls of yogurt (hides her medications). At dinner another cup with a handful of fresh or frozen veggies. She loves greenbeans, broccoli, tomatoes, lettuce etc.


tinkerbells a good lookin girl!
now i dont feel so bad im giving shane 2 cups.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Grain frees are typically much more caloric because they are rich. The definition of calorie is


> *Definition: *A calorie is a unit of heat used to express the energy value of food. A pound of fat stores about 3500 calories so, in order to lose a pound of fat, you need to burn an extra 3500 calories. To lose a pound in one week, that would mean creating a calorie deficit of 500 calories per day with diet, exercise or both.


If you ate 3500 calories of lettuce it would still equate 3500 cals of rice or meat. However, the volume would be vastly different.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Thank you, and I can tell you Tinkerbell is not hungry. I would not have a hungry dog that was looking for food. She is also not real active, running around the house and short walks a few times a week are her general excercise and truthfully I've looked at cutting it back a 1/2 cup or so but it looks like such a small amount...


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

It took Ranger a long time before he stopped having loose poops on the grain free. I swapped him from Iams to Orijen and did the slow, gradual switch over 14 days and he STILL had loose poops. It took me mixing Iams with his Orijen for about 5 weeks before they finally firmed up on JUST Orijen.

Ranger weighed about 66 lbs and got 3 cups of Orijen a day until he got to 74 lbs, which was a little too heavy. I switched him to EVO which is very high calorie so he's only getting 2 cups or less a day. He gets 60 - 90 min of walking a day, plus 5-6 hour hikes on the weekend but if he's not walking, he's sleeping. He's now around 71 lbs which is about right for him.


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## mdoats (Jun 7, 2007)

Rookie is on Innova Evo. He gets about 3/4 of a cup twice a day. If he has a very active day I'll give him another 1/4 cup at dinner. But he almost never gets more than 2 cups a day. He's 68 pounds at 3 years old.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

Grain free made many of ours gain weight no matter how little we fed them.

Soooo...we're trying to switch back to a regular super premium with no wheat, corn or soy...or artifical ingredients.

Little problem tho...they LOVE the grain free. It does smell yummy. They look at us like we're crazy for trying to switch them.

Some would eat cardboard, I swear. Others are much more picky. So, we're mixing the grain free with the non-grain free...just a little for the yummy smell, so they'll eat the stuff. LOL


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Yeah that's the hard thing with Ranger - he doesn't care what he's eating but he wants to eat until his belly is full! So I could give him 3 cups a day of cardboard garbage dog food and he'd probably be happier since his belly would be full. As opposed to getting under 2 cups of EVO which is better for him. I wish he was pickier!


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## Rctriplefresh5! (Mar 24, 2010)

mdoats said:


> Rookie is on Innova Evo. He gets about 3/4 of a cup twice a day. If he has a very active day I'll give him another 1/4 cup at dinner. But he almost never gets more than 2 cups a day. He's 68 pounds at 3 years old.


wow so i guess you have had success feeding 1.5 cups a day!
i guess i will stick with 2 cups a day for now, since shane isnt very active. once the summer comes ill assess from there. i think his stools will get firmer when hes completely on grain free, but that wont be for a while, hes still got quite a bit of the canidae left, and i only feed .5 cup of that a day. im hoping within 3 weeks its gone. he does seem less gassy and less itchy on the new one though.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Ok, best advice. If your dog is getting fat, feed him less. If he is getting skinny, feed him more. If he is maintaining stay where you are. Evaluate him on a weekly basis. Don't worry so much about the calorie this or that--just look at and evaluate your dog.


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## K9 Passion (Jan 2, 2009)

Contrary to popular belief, canned pumpkin is a stool softener, not a stool firmer, so I would NOT recommend adding canned pumpkin, as that could make problems worse.

Contrary to popular belief, not all grain-free foods are "rich." When people say "rich," what they are meaning to say is "nutrient dense." Again, not all grain-free foods are nutrient dense. For instance, Natural Balance's formulas are grain-free & they are not nutrient dense at all.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I had a canine nutritionist tell me pumpkin can be used as either a softener or firmer depending on the amount given. I've used it with Maggie to firm her stools on numerous occassions and always had good results.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

How much do you give for pumpkin to be a stool firmer? Ranger's poop has been softer than usual lately and he actually had the runs this morning. Maybe a little pumpkin would help.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I usually put in a spoonful or two.... I would guestimate about 2 tablespoons.


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## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

Canned pumpkin id definitely a stool firmer. It's pure fiber.
My golden, who is about 62 lbs, and my lab mix, who is about 60 lbs, both get 1 and 3/4 cup of Evo a day and honestly I'm thinking of cutting that down to 1 1/2 cups. We'll see if they get more active as summer approaches, but this coming winter i can guarantee that they'll only be eating 1 1/2 cups a day.


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## K9 Passion (Jan 2, 2009)

Taz Monkey said:


> Canned pumpkin id definitely a stool firmer. It's pure fiber...


There are two different *types* of fiber: Soluble & Insoluble. 

Soluble sources are mostly from fruits, legumes, & oats. This type of fiber helps bind things together to form solid stools. Example: applesauce

Insoluble sources are mostly from vegetables & whole grains. This type of fiber help to prevent stools from becoming too hard (constipation). Pumpkin would fall into this category.


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## 2golddogs (Oct 19, 2009)

Both Kosmo (9 years old) and Jackson (16 months) are on grain free. Kosmo is fed 2 cups a day and is maintaining his weight well at 85 pounds. Jackson is very active and is fed 3 cups a day and weighs 72 pounds. You might want to consider a different brand of grain free food if you don't start seeing firmer stools in a few months.


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## Taz Monkey (Feb 25, 2007)

K9 Passion said:


> There are two different *types* of fiber: Soluble & Insoluble.
> 
> Soluble sources are mostly from fruits, legumes, & oats. This type of fiber helps bind things together to form solid stools. Example: applesauce
> 
> Insoluble sources are mostly from vegetables & whole grains. This type of fiber help to prevent stools from becoming too hard (constipation). Pumpkin would fall into this category.


Right. But from experience, and the experience of TONS of other dog people on several different forums, as well as my vet, pumpkin definitely firms up stools. A tablespoon or so given to a dog with the runs firms it up almost immediately.


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## artbuc (Apr 12, 2009)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Each dogs needs are different. Figure out how many calories/day he was getting on the old food and he would need the equal amount of calories in the new food. That may mean less food, perhaps not.... check the calorie count of the food. If you've transitioned slowly and his stools are loose, he perhaps cannot tolerate the richer food. For example, my goldens eat approx. 900 calories/ day, with my 65 lb girl able to eat more and stay thin than Penny (70 lbs) who has to be pretty active to eat 850'ish cals/ day. My 55 pound springer maintains weight on the same number of calories/day that the goldens eat, and he is not as active.
> Pumpkin can firm stools, but I wouldn't keep him on a food that needs pumpkin consistently for firm stools. (MHO)


Wow! How can they survive on 900 cals? Rocky is 68 lbs and fairly active with a slender build. He needs 1450 cals per day. I guess each one is very different. That is what makes this forum so important.


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## Stircrazy (Nov 30, 2009)

remember the feeding amounts on a bag of food is a guide line only, or a starting point if you wish. so the real indacator on how much you should be feeding you do is his health, and how fat he/she looks and you adjust up or down from there. I feed a high proteen grain free and find that I am feeding at the bottom of the less active scale for a very active GR. he is 6.5 months old and weighs 47.5lbs has a slight fat layer but you can still very easialy feel his ribs, and the vet thinks his weight is perfect, so I am happy with the amount he is eating. 

now I can tell you that as little as 1/6th of a cup twice a day is enough to cause loose stools in my boy so what I have started to do for the last month is feed him just below the loose stool amount and it has been working good, as he gains weight I increase his food till the stools go loose then I back it off a bit that way I know he is getting as much food as his system can handle properly. I don't get hung up on calories as not all calories are created equal, some are nothing more than filler that your body cannot adsorbe, some are partial adsorbed and some are totaly adsorbed, some are good for us and some arn't so saying to feed the same amount of one food calory wise as you did another food is kinda silly. simpily start at the recomended amount on the bag for your dogs weight and adjust from there, and remember if I were a food company and I found that a dog required 3 cups a day of my food I would probably put 3-4 cups on there as the range. that way you have to buy food more often as most everyone will overfeed if given a chance cuz they think that they are not giving there dog very much food. so start off at the lower end of the range and pick the less active amount also even if you dog is active. watch his/her body, condition of stools and go from there.

Steve


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## kgiff (Jul 21, 2008)

Rctriplefresh5! said:


> are your bernese mountain dog and your 46 pound golden both puppies? 70 for a berner is around 30 pounds below average. and 46 for a golden around 30 below also, maybe 25.


Nope, I just have small dogs. The berner is 22.5 inches tall (about 3 inches below average height and the 46 pound golden has a lighter bone structure. They're both quite fit and healthy.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Ranger can't have near the amount recommended on the grain-free bags or he'd be a big black ball with legs poking out. He's an active dog, but not high energy. Meaning, he's considered active because we go rollerblading together, he gets 2-3 hour walks a day and hikes all weekend. BUT if he's left to his own devices, he sleeps, naps, or cuddles. He's definitely not bouncing off the walls looking for something to do on his own time. 

My brother's dog gets less exercise than Ranger and is much higher energy (a bit of correlation?). When both dogs go on the same walk for the same amount of time, Ranger comes home and will sleep for the next 2 hours while Blue wanders around from person to person trying to find something else to do. Blue burns off so many calories on his own, he gets 3-4 cups of Orijen a day and is still a lean dog. Ranger can't eat more than 2 without getting plump.

Really depends on the exercise you give the dog AND how much they burn off on their own. Right now, Ranger's curled up in a little ball and Blue is amusing himself playing with a stick.


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