# Getting a puppy but have to work full-time. What are my options



## JDK

How's everybody doing.

In 2-3 weeks my gf and I will be the proud owners of a golden retriever puppy.

Naturally, I'm interested in crate training the box but there's come a problem with that. Her and I work full-time, 8 hrs a day. I already know leaving a puppy in a crate for 8 hours during the day is not the smartest thing to do, and believe me it's the last thing I would want to do.

What are some of my other options here?

I live in an area where everybody works and don't have neighbors that are around to come over and walk my dog. Not to mention most of them probably wouldn't want to even if they were home since they're rather snobby :yuck:

Dog walkers and doggie daycares are extremely expensive in my area and not something I can afford at this point in time. So even though they're available in the area, they're not an option right now. 

Going from there, I thought well maybe I could leave the dog in the kitchen, which has a tile floor, and just block off the entrances. But than I thought, what about all the wood around the kitchen (ie table, chairs, cabinets) and the pup possibly chewing on them while I'm at work. That wouldn't be good.

Then I though well maybe I could get one of those x-pens, leave it in the center of the living room (carpet) and put down a puppy training pad and hope he goes on that. He would still need to be in there for 8hrs but it would seem a little less humane than leaving him in crate for the whole time, especially when he's going to have to sleep in the crate at night. 

Aside from what I mentioned I don't really know what else I could do. I'm so stressed over this that I'm starting to consider telling the breeder to keep the dog and my no-refund deposit. Not really what I want to do, but at the same time I'm not going to get a pup if I can't provide for him. I love animals and wouldn't want to put him in a bad position.

Any suggestions here?


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## Oaklys Dad

The crate is really the only way to make sure your puppy is safe but you really need to find a way to let your pup out at least once at midday. Once your pup gets to six months or so it could likely make it the full 8 hours in the crate. The pup would only require 10-15 minutes at lunch time.


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## mylissyk

Be prepared for the responses you will get, most people on this board will tell you working full time and a having a baby puppy do not mix. 

Really, the only good solution is to have someone come in several times a day to take the puppy out. You will have a beast of a time potty training your puppy if they are left all day and will have to eliminate inside, puppy won't have a choice. It really is not a good situation for a baby puppy to not have interaction with people for so long every day.

I think your instinct to cancel the purchase may be the right one. Perhaps getting an older dog will fit better with your life right now.


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## BajaOklahoma

I found a college student who came over twice a day until Banker was 4 months old, then she came once a day, until he was 8 months old. She enjoyed playing with him and it was wonderful for us. Cheaper than a professional pet sitter. The money was still good for her, but we didn't have issues with potty training. That is worth a huge amount, IMO.


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## OriJames

I'm sorry, but I'll have to agree with Mylissyk. At this point, it probably isn't in the best interest of both you and the puppy. Trying to train and raise a puppy is hard enough work and commitment without a full-time job (I'm on the pension myself, and I've raised 1 and 1//2) so without really being able to put a LOT of time and effort into it, I don't think it's the best time for you right now.

If you're still looking into getting a Golden though, why not try a slightly older one from a rescue? There is always that option. In the future, you can always look at getting a puppy once your situation is in a better place.


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## Sally's Mom

If you can't afford a dog walker, you need to rethink a puppy. It is just not fair and quite frankly most reputable breeders would not sell you a pup.


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## TiffanyPartyOf8

My thought has always been if you have to second guess whether it's time for a puppy, it probably isn't time for a puppy.

I knew I couldn't handle a new puppy and potty training and chewing on walls and furniture and everything! So we went for an older puppy - took longer to find but we got the perfect one for our family dynamics. We will get a puppy puppy one day - but our kids will be MUCH older so I can devote all my time to the new baby (puppy).

If you do still go through with it, I'd hire a college kid or older high school kid to come once or twice a day and I'd come home at lunch and take him out to potty and play in the yard a little before heading back to work. I'm sure it's doable to raise a puppy and work full time but it doesn't mean it's in the best interest of you or the puppy.

Good luck with your decision.


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## JDK

I could maybe get home once a day to let him out and play with him for a few, say around 1. But 730-1 still seems like a stretch. That's 5 1/2 hours.

So I was thinking, maybe I could get a dog walker to come over once a day to meet me in the middle, say around 10:30. That would put the walking/playtime in 3 hours blocks 7:30-10:30, 10:30-1:30, and since I get home around 4:00-4:30, the last block would be 4hours. That seems reasonable. However, a dog walker is $50 a visit, which amounts to $250 a week, $1000 a month. That's just not feasible right now in this economy.

How would you guys feel if the dog was say 5 months old? The breeder who I'm suppose to get the pup from has two females that are 5 months old. Would a 5 month old be able to hold his until I was able to get home at lunch, if not a little longer? I was thinking that the 5 month old may even be somewhat house broken by now, which would really help in my situation. Any opinions on this?


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## lgnutah

I think you knew the answer before you asked it.....maybe the breeder has an older dog that you could purchase instead of the puppy?

OK, it looks like the breeder does have an older pup. A 5 month old puppy, that the breeder has already housetrained wouldn't have the urination "urgency" issues that a 8 or 10 week old puppy would have. You still would need someone to come mid day to let the pup out, but you wouldn't have the problems with soiling in the crate just because the dog is too young to be able to hold it.
Have you got a veterinarian near your home? Vet techs will often do house calls like this, typically for $15 a visit. Or, if there is a college nearby, post a help wanted ad in the college newspaper and if a student lives nearby they could do the job for you. 
I paid a student to come once a day, scoop two litter boxes, feed and play with my 2 cats and he thought he was earning a king's ransom when I paid him $10 day. Shoot, my kids got paid $20 a week for tending to a friends cats and they were pleased.


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## mudEpawz

Raising a puppy take a great deal of time and energy, which I am sure you know so I wont lecture :. 

I believe that if you have the dedication, regardless if you work full time, you will ensure that your new pup is happy and healthy. 

I would really recommend looking to find someone to let out the puppy to do its business once, twice or even three times through out the day (depending on your dog's energy level). Maybe look outside your neighbourhood, local pet stores etc to see if you can find a reliable and trustworthy person to spend an hour or two a day with the puppy. It's worth the $20 a day. 

Good Luck!!!!! :wavey:


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## JDK

TiffanyPartyOf8 said:


> I'm sure it's doable to raise a puppy and work full time but it doesn't mean it's in the best interest of you or the puppy.
> 
> Good luck with your decision.


That's my thing. I know it's probably doable, but doable isn't always logical. As I said before, I love animals - dogs, cats, birds, fish, whatever it may be - and the last thing I want to do is put an animal in a position where they're going to be unhappy. 

Was just wondering if there was another way to go about this that I may not have thought of, but apparently there isn't


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## TiffanyPartyOf8

I think a 5 month old would do okay if you came home for lunch? I may be wrong? IDK... but that seems reasonable.


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## JDK

Krys! said:


> Raising a puppy take a great deal of time and energy, which I am sure you know so I wont lecture :.
> 
> I believe that if you have the dedication, regardless if you work full time, you will ensure that your new pup is happy and healthy.
> 
> I would really recommend looking to find someone to let out the puppy to do its business once, twice or even three times through out the day (depending on your dog's energy level). Maybe look outside your neighbourhood, local pet stores etc to see if you can find a reliable and trustworthy person to spend an hour or two a day with the puppy. It's worth the $20 a day.
> 
> Good Luck!!!!! :wavey:


If it was only $20, that would be great. I've looked into numerous places in my surrounding area and the cheapest is $30 for a 15minute visit, $50 for a half hour.

Dog daycare, which is really popular in my area, is about $575 a month. That would be cheaper than a dog walker, but still quite expensive once I consider the vet bills and etc that come along with the pup.


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## mylissyk

JDK said:


> I could maybe get home once a day to let him out and play with him for a few, say around 1. But 730-1 still seems like a stretch. That's 5 1/2 hours.
> 
> So I was thinking, maybe I could get a dog walker to come over once a day to meet me in the middle, say around 10:30. That would put the walking/playtime in 3 hours blocks 7:30-10:30, 10:30-1:30, and since I get home around 4:00-4:30, the last block would be 4hours. That seems reasonable. However, a dog walker is $50 a visit, which amounts to $250 a week, $1000 a month. That's just not feasible right now in this economy.
> 
> How would you guys feel if the dog was say 5 months old? The breeder who I'm suppose to get the pup from has two females that are 5 months old. Would a 5 month old be able to hold his until I was able to get home at lunch, if not a little longer? I was thinking that the 5 month old may even be somewhat house broken by now, which would really help in my situation. Any opinions on this?


A 5 month old puppy could handle up to 3 hours crated. A baby puppy between 8 weeks and 4 and half to 5 months needs to go to the bathroom every 20 to 30 minutes.

If you are going to get a puppy, 5 months or older would be a better fit for your schedule.


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## mudEpawz

JDK said:


> If it was only $20, that would be great. I've looked into numerous places in my surrounding area and the cheapest is $30 for a 15minute visit, $50 for a half hour.
> 
> Dog daycare, which is really popular in my area, is about $575 a month. That would be cheaper than a dog walker, but still quite expensive once I consider the vet bills and etc that come along with the pup.



WHOA!!! That is expensive! Around my neck of the woods, its usually $20-$40 depending on the person and the time they spend with the dog. I work full time as well, so I do understand your situation. I was fortunate enough to have family members puppysit for me until Chloe was 7 months old. 

Unfortunately expenses come with owning a dog... something I learned the hard way. I wouldn't change a thing though, i love my dog. 

I think that the five month puppy might fit your lifestyle better.


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## lgnutah

Where do you live that someone thinks they can charge $50 for a half hour visit to your home? There are too many people out of work right now for there not to be someone who would do it for less, a lot less. What about posting on Craigs List? An ad in your local newspaper? People need jobs right now. Advertising works, try advertising.


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## JDK

lgnutah said:


> Where do you live that someone thinks they can charge $50 for a half hour visit to your home? There are too many people out of work right now for there not to be someone who would do it for less, a lot less. What about posting on Craigs List? An ad in your local newspaper? People need jobs right now. Advertising works, try advertising.


I'm from NY, and not the country side where things are still fairly cheap. :doh:

I could probably find a college kid willing to do it, if I had the time. Unless I decide otherwise, I'm suppose to pick the pup up in 2 weeks. Finding somebody trustworthy enough to come into my house in that short amount of time is pushing it.


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## OriJames

It's a pity I don't live anywhere near you, JDK. I'd do it for free, stuff getting paid to have fun and look after a puppy that needs it. That's lesuire time for me.


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## JDK

Ori said:


> It's a pity I don't live anywhere near you, JDK. I'd do it for free, stuff getting paid to have fun and look after a puppy that needs it. That's lesuire time for me.


I hear ya. If I was home all-day or even part of the day for that matter and a friend or neighbor asked me to walk their dog I would do it for free. They would probably have to kick me out once they got home.

I do a lot of work at peoples houses and one of the best parts of the job is playing with everybody's dogs. If it paid enough, I'd go work in one of those doggy daycare places. It could be no better job.


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## mylissyk

You could also check with your vet's office and see if any of the vet techs or groomers are doing pet sitting/visits.


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## OriJames

JDK said:


> I hear ya. If I was home all-day or even part of the day for that matter and a friend or neighbor asked me to walk their dog I would do it for free. They would probably have to kick me out once they got home.


Oh, I completely share your sentiments. I'd offer help around my neighborhood, but sadly not a lot of trust comes from people these days...especially in my area. Letting someone into your home, even to look after your dogs while away, people get really nervous and probably would look at me like a nutso if I even tried to put out an offer for free.

Still, I had an issue just after Christmas where on a walk with Ori, we bumped into this beautiful stray dog. I didn't see any sign of an owner, and she was wandering dangerously into the intersection...I was terrified and it was getting dark, so I brought her home just for the night, fed her a little food, and first thing in the morning when went hunting. First house they weren't home (which turned out to be her home anyway) but their neighbors told me she lived there and were searching desperately for her. They thanked me for looking after her...as apparently without ANY consideration, they left 5 days before with NO ONE to look after her, one bowl of food, and one bowl of water that she spilt on the first day. 

Now, Our Christmastime is in summer, and it was a week of being around the high 40'sC degrees (which is around 120F for you guys I believe) and there was absolutely no shade in that yard whatsoever. She could have died. Me and the neighbor started about calling the rescue which is sadly, run by the council...so you can guess how badly THAT went. Because she was registered...all they could do was leave them a note that they have the dog, and if they claimed her within 72 hours she could just go home with them! I was APALLED to say the least, me and the other woman were so mad and hurt. She'd been lovingly looking after it with NO need to for five days, butcher meat, dog food, you name it. That dog almost died in her "furparents" care.

I can't stand creulty to animals. I've seen too much of it to tolerate it, but that made me sick. It's like sending a pregnant woman to Scott Peterson's house. Morbid example, I know.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/other-pets/90269-urgent-stray-dog-night.html That was going through the motions of it. (I hope that it's okay I've posted this link...I know it's a little off-topic.)

You obviously though, are the type to understand the needs and fears for your babies...as we all do here. That earns my respect already.  Whatever you do decide, either to wait, find an older pup or perhaps even a "teenage" Golden, there's no question that you would want him/her to have the best care. In fact even questioning this NOW shows how much morality and compassion you have. It's unfortunately a rare thing to find these days.


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## JDK

Ori said:


> You obviously though, are the type to understand the needs and fears for your babies...as we all do here. That earns my respect already.  Whatever you do decide, either to wait, find an older pup or perhaps even a "teenage" Golden, there's no question that you would want him/her to have the best care. In fact even questioning this NOW shows how much morality and compassion you have. It's unfortunately a rare thing to find these days.


That's why I'm here. I want to make sure I do the right thing, even if it means eating the $300 deposit and passing on the pup, before I go and do the wrong thing and end up putting an animal in a bad position.

I've had plenty of dogs before. Actually, I had to put my Chow to sleep about a year ago. He was 21 at the time. So I'm well aware of the responsibility that comes with a dog. Granted, we got all our dogs when I was younger, meaning my parents took care of them as pups until they were housebroken then I took over. I'm 28 now and this dog is all mine, so I gotta think this through end-to-end. Parents aren't here to look after it all day long. Currently I have 2 ferrets and a cat.

That's an unfortunate event you witnessed. I've been through something similar with a pair of pigs where the owner left them outside in the middle of the winter for a week (temps did go above 20F and were around -5F with the wind chill) with nothing more than a plastic dog kennel, a bowl of water, which was frozen, and some hay, which was covered in snow. I don't know what kind of pigs they were but they were small, like the size of a Jack Russel. They were hovering next to each other in a corner and were practically white they were so cold. I called the ASPCA to report it and etc etc and to make a long story short, nothing really came of it. If I could of gotten over the guys fence I probably would of taken them and never brought them back. Would of marked it up as a "good deed".

BTW - Great forum here. Love the level of activity.


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## aerolor

My advice would be to wait until you can be at home more with a pup. A 5 month old pup is no better than an 8 week old and you have the added factor that a 5 month old is more active and considerably more demanding (or should be). Living in a crate and on it own is no life for any dog and, unfortunately, I don't think you would end up being happy about it either, as I don't think the pup would grow up to be as you hope it would, both mentally and physically. Like many breeds a Golden Retriever is an active dog, who needs to be with its owner - this is when they thrive and do best. The first year involves training and considerable input from you to end up with a happy and well adjusted golden. Please think again.


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## Jessie'sGirl

I agree wholeheartedly with Aerolor. It is not within a golden's personality to be happy being left alone all day, especially at such a young age You could be setting youself up for a myriad of behavioral issues. You do seem very responsible and caring. $50 for a half hr visit is very steep. If you can't find a reasomable solution , an older dog would be a better fit. I drive 20 min each way on a windy road to my son's house when he and my DIL are at work to let their dogs out . I bring my dog and he plays with my son's golden while i snuggle with the pug. I stay 1 -1and1/2 hr and leaving them is always hard. it is extra time out of my day but I do it for the dogs. I couldn't enjoy my day knowing they were home all day alone. And my Jess loves the play time with his buddy. If you brought a puppy home and had to leave it all day, kennelled or otherwise, you would not be happy with the situation.


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## paula bedard

I'm one who believes in being a stay at home dogmom, which I am. I know many families who have dogs and full time jobs, but it's not something I could do. My son has a pup that he takes to work with him 2 days a week and I watch him the other 3. My daughter is able to come home for lunch every day to let her pouch out of his crate and walk him. He's an older dog (rescue), but still needs to be crated because he'll look for trouble otherwise.
If you did take the 5 month old pup, you'd still need to have someone come several times a day to let the pup out and give it a bit of exercise. Otherwise, you're asking for behavior problems and a lot of pent of energy needing to be released. You will also need to make sure the older pup is not aggressive toward, of scared of, your ferrets or cat. 

Good luck with your decision...and thanks for asking. It shows you are thinking this through.


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## momtoMax

This is something you should have thought about and fixed before you got the puppy. Are you planning on taking some time off as soon as you get the puppy to help the puppy acclimate? Here's an idea - go onto Craigslist and put up an ad for responsible adult needed walk/spend time with adorable golden retreiver puppy for the next few months, (days of the week here.) Willing to pay (amount here) per week. Please send character references. Or if you work close enough to home, come home on your lunch breaks to let him/her out and spend a few minutes of play time.

Yes, people have left puppies in crates for over 8 hours and they will tell you, my dog turned out fine so up yours but it's just common sense that is not a kind or responsible thing to do. Most of the people who post here are super responsible caring owners who wouldn't do that so you're going to get serious reactions to the thought of that occurring.

Like I said, maybe you can find someone through craigslist who is looking to make a bit of extra money - like a student - that you can afford.


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## momtoMax

JDK said:


> I could maybe get home once a day to let him out and play with him for a few, say around 1. But 730-1 still seems like a stretch. That's 5 1/2 hours.
> 
> So I was thinking, maybe I could get a dog walker to come over once a day to meet me in the middle, say around 10:30. That would put the walking/playtime in 3 hours blocks 7:30-10:30, 10:30-1:30, and since I get home around 4:00-4:30, the last block would be 4hours. That seems reasonable. However, a dog walker is $50 a visit, which amounts to $250 a week, $1000 a month. That's just not feasible right now in this economy.
> 
> How would you guys feel if the dog was say 5 months old? The breeder who I'm suppose to get the pup from has two females that are 5 months old. Would a 5 month old be able to hold his until I was able to get home at lunch, if not a little longer? I was thinking that the 5 month old may even be somewhat house broken by now, which would really help in my situation. Any opinions on this?


A 5 month old should be able to hold it 5 hours. each month equals how many hours. If you let her out at 1, she should be fine. Only thing to beware of is you'll be lucky enough to have missed the landshark stage but heading into the unruly teenage years. Another good thing about the 5 month old is she may have some training which would be a great thing for you. Yes, you'll miss the tiny fluffy part but you'll miss the teeth too - man, can that be a rough stage! Her teenage angst will keep you on your toes and trust me, you'll love her within moments. 

The baby puppy 5 hours, that is a bit long but maybe if you're lucky he/she will sleep through a lot of that but you may come home to messy puppy and accidents and be giving your pup a quick bath and crate a cleaning when you come home at one. It's not he best but it's *a lot* better than 8 hours. With in a few months, the puppy will be able to hold it better so that will improve over time. If you find someone willing to come in the AM for 50 bucks a week for a couple of months, then everything would be honky dory but still, it would be perfect if you could at least stay home with the pup (alternating vacation days so that you can lengthen the time you have at home with the pup) for a week or so until he/she gets settled in and feels safe and loved and secure. That goes for the 5 monther too.


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## VickiR

Would it be possible for you and your girlfriend to stagger your work schedules? If one of you went in early and the other went in later, the puppy wouldn't be alone as long.


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## Sweet Girl

The first thing to realize is that unless you take at least two weeks off when you first get your puppy - he/she will probably never be properly housetrained. Housetraining requires a puppy being watched with an eagle eye, and taken out every 30-60 minutes. You can't do that if you're not home. 

Also - consider this: you are going to bring an 8-week-old puppy into a new house, away from his littermates for the first time - and leave him all alone for 8 hours? He will be a scared and lonely little pup. That makes me sad.

If you can take time off work when he first comes home, and IF you can find a dogwalker, then I think it is doable. I still find it almost impossible to believe a dogwalker is charging $50 a day to come in. I think Toronto is on the high end, and my walker charges $17 a day. My walker doesn't even charge $50 a day to home board my dog if I go away.

The other thing that worries me about this situation is the fact that your breeder was happy to sell you a puppy - despite the fact that you work full time. Did he or she even ask you about your homelife and how the puppy would be trained or cared for? 

Sorry to be blunt, but you did come asking for advice. I hope you can take it in the spirit it is being given - which is in the best interest of the puppy.


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## JDK

Taking a week off from work to stay home with the dog so he/she can adjust would be possible. Actually, I had planned on that.

Alternating work schedules isn't possible. We have rather important jobs, and going in late or early isn't an option or even possible.

If I got the 5 month old, she would only be in the crate while I'm at work and at night (unless she's past the chewing stage already). If I come to find out the breeder already has her house broken, she wouldn't have to go in the crate at all. She would get plenty of playtime both before and after work, and for that half hour during lunch.

Since the average rule of thumb is take the dogs age and add 1, shouldn't a 5 month old be able to hold it for 6 hours? 

If I could be a stay at home dog parent, I would. But we're not rich and like most people, we have to work.


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## JDK

Sweet Girl said:


> The first thing to realize is that unless you take at least two weeks off when you first get your puppy - he/she will probably never be properly housetrained. Housetraining requires a puppy being watched with an eagle eye, and taken out every 30-60 minutes. You can't do that if you're not home.
> 
> Also - consider this: you are going to bring an 8-week-old puppy into a new house, away from his littermates for the first time - and leave him all alone for 8 hours? He will be a scared and lonely little pup. That makes me sad.
> 
> If you can take time off work when he first comes home, and IF you can find a dogwalker, then I think it is doable. I still find it almost impossible to believe a dogwalker is charging $50 a day to come in. I think Toronto is on the high end, and my walker charges $17 a day. My walker doesn't even charge $50 a day to home board my dog if I go away.
> 
> The other thing that worries me about this situation is the fact that your breeder was happy to sell you a puppy - despite the fact that you work full time. Did he or she even ask you about your homelife and how the puppy would be trained or cared for?
> 
> Sorry to be blunt, but you did come asking for advice. I hope you can take it in the spirit it is being given - which is in the best interest of the puppy.


I live in one of the most over-taxed areas of the United States. People compensate for the fact by charging ridiculous prices on everything from food to gas to dog walking. 

I would be able to take a week off from work and my gf would prob be able to take another week, so it could be two weeks in a row with somebody home, but still, the dog walker isn't possible at the prices they want.

Don't worry about being blunt. That's how I like it  If blunt brings the truth in a respectful way, give it to me.


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## paula bedard

JDK said:


> If I got the 5 month old, she would only be in the crate while I'm at work and at night (unless she's past the chewing stage already). If I come to find out the breeder already has her house broken, she wouldn't have to go in the crate at all. She would get plenty of playtime both before and after work, and for that half hour during lunch.
> 
> Since the average rule of thumb is take the dogs age and add 1, shouldn't a 5 month old be able to hold it for 6 hours?
> 
> If I could be a stay at home dog parent, I would. But we're not rich and like most people, we have to work.


No, you cannot trust her outside of her crate unsupervised even if she is housebroken. They are basically toddlers and will get into anything and everything. My 6 month old pup decided my walls tasted good and ate my living room wall. I was at the grocery store, only gone 1 hour. He had never done this before, so this was a brand new bad behavior appearing at 6 months old. After this, he had to start being crated every time I left the house, for however short a period. He couldn't be trusted again for a few months. Pups go through phases of rebellion. Usually starting about 6 months and then again around a year. Some have a 3rd period of stubbornness, mine did, at about 18 months. All dogs are different, but you take a chance with their safety and your belongings when you leave them uncrated for hours on end. Sometimes even only for a few minutes.

You mentioned you visit people's homes for a living. Could you possibly take your dog along with you, if the dog was well behaved?


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## Serawyn

Many people on this board will tell you it is cruel to leave a puppy in his crate for 8 hours. Some may even say take 2 weeks off when you first get the puppy. There's the dog walker idea, having a friend or neighbor come, doggy daycare, etc. But the reality is, it's a luxury to be able to do any of this. If this is a requirement to become a responsible dog owner, then many, many people should never and could never get a dog. 

I understand your dilemma because I went through the same set of considerations. Here is what I was able to do. 

1. Fortunately, I am a teacher so I have the entire 2.5 month at home to take care of, bond, and house train my puppy. I intentionaly looked for a litter that would be born around the time when I could be home. Is there any way you could try to do that? 

2. Even though I was home, I bought an x-pen for the puppy. I placed her crate inside the x-pen and set it up so that she could go in and out, but is still contained. I may be in the same room, kitchen, or elsewhere in the house, but she will be in the x-pen. She barked at first because she wanted to come out to be with me, but I ignored her completely. She very quickly learned to go into her crate and settled down in there. This really helped with the crate training because she goes in willingly when she needs a comforting place. At first, I would take her out every hour and take her to her potty area outside and play for about 5 minutes. Then it gradually became 2 hours, and then 3 hours. If she had an accident, it was never inside her crate and always in a corner of the x-pen. I was able to contain her in there for about 1.5 month which helped a LOT with the house training. At night, I would move her crate into our bedroom where she sleeps. 

3. Once the puppy was reliably housebroken, I set up baby gates in the hallway where she hung out when I wasn't home. From there, I'd open up one room like the laundry room or bathroom, and she had access to that space. I would leave the house to run errands for about 1-2 hours and she was fine. I never came home to an accident and I liked that she was contained, but had room to move around. Her crate was always in these areas and more often than not, I'd come home to her sleeping inside the crate. Just know and be okay with possible damage to your house in those areas when you are not home. Your dog may even chew the drywall or baseboard! Be patient and forgiving because that's what they could do. If you plan on exercising your puppy before you leave for work, that's the ideal thing to do. You do not want a bored puppy left alone at home.

I was able to get her to hang around the hallway, laundry room, bathroom, and my bedroom for about 5 hours. I tested this set up on days that I was home so that I could see what she behaved like. Of course all those rooms are puppy proof and when I am not home, most things are removed; toilet paper rolls put away, toilet lid down, shower curtain draped to the top of the rod, blankets and pillows put away, etc. There is nothing she could chew on or reach except for her toys, kong treats, and water bowl. 

So, my advice to you would be to invest in a LOT of interesting puppy toys and treats, a good crate, x-pen, and some baby gates. This is the x-pen that I got and I loved how nice it looks and how tall it is. 

Amazon.com: Iris CI-908 Indoor/Outdoor Plastic Pet Pen, 8 Panels: Kitchen & Dining


Don't get those metal ones unless they are at least 3 feet high. You wouldn't believe it, but they grow fast. After 3 weeks, your puppy may be able to knock one over or even climb the x-pen which could damage your floors! 

It sounds like you can come home at least mid-day so maybe it's not the end of the world if your dog is in the x-pen for 5 hours. Just don't get upset if your puppy has an accident, it will happen! 

It really is a luxury to be able to own and provide for a dog. I've learned that every penny and ounce of energy is worth it. You sound like a responsible dog owner since you are asking for help. I wish you all the luck and hopefully, you will have the dog of your dreams!


----------



## paula bedard

I'm sorry, but you are asking for advice, then finding an excuse for each suggestion that a pup of any age might not be the best thing for your situation. Why not rescue an older dog that can be home alone for some hours without worry? 
ps...I wish I was rich.


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## JDK

paula bedard said:


> No, you cannot trust her outside of her crate unsupervised even if she is housebroken. They are basically toddlers and will get into anything and everything. My 6 month old pup decided my walls tasted good and ate my living room wall. I was at the grocery store, only gone 1 hour. He had never done this before, so this was a brand new bad behavior appearing at 6 months old. After this, he had to start being crated every time I left the house, for however short a period. He couldn't be trusted again for a few months. Pups go through phases of rebellion. Usually starting about 6 months and then again around a year. Some have a 3rd period of stubbornness, mine did, at about 18 months. All dogs are different, but you take a chance with their safety and your belongings when you leave them uncrated for hours on end. Sometimes even only for a few minutes.
> 
> You mentioned you visit people's homes for a living. Could you possibly take your dog along with you, if the dog was well behaved?


I would love to be able to take my dog to work, but there's just no room. I work in the septic business. So i'm in a Mack truck all day long. If I didn't have a partner the dog could sit shotgun, but I do :doh:


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## JDK

paula bedard said:


> I'm sorry, but you are asking for advice, then finding an excuse for each suggestion that a pup of any age might not be the best thing for your situation. Why not rescue an older dog that can be home alone for some hours without worry?
> ps...I wish I was rich.


I've had two rescue dogs before and wasn't very pleased. Love the idea of saving a life, but don't want a dog that's skittish due to it's past. The two I had were lovely, but when other people came around, forget it. They were not to be seen anywhere.


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## JDK

Serawyn said:


> Many people on this board will tell you it is cruel to leave a puppy in his crate for 8 hours. Some may even say take 2 weeks off when you first get the puppy. There's the dog walker idea, having a friend or neighbor come, doggy daycare, etc. But the reality is, it's a luxury to be able to do any of this. If this is a requirement to become a responsible dog owner, then many, many people should never and could never get a dog.
> 
> I understand your dilemma because I went through the same set of considerations. Here is what I was able to do.
> 
> 1. Fortunately, I am a teacher so I have the entire 2.5 month at home to take care of, bond, and house train my puppy. I intentionaly looked for a litter that would be born around the time when I could be home. Is there any way you could try to do that?
> 
> 2. Even though I was home, I bought an x-pen for the puppy. I placed her crate inside the x-pen and set it up so that she could go in and out, but is still contained. I may be in the same room, kitchen, or elsewhere in the house, but she will be in the x-pen. She barked at first because she wanted to come out to be with me, but I ignored her completely. She very quickly learned to go into her crate and settled down in there. This really helped with the crate training because she goes in willingly when she needs a comforting place. At first, I would take her out every hour and take her to her potty area outside and play for about 5 minutes. Then it gradually became 2 hours, and then 3 hours. If she had an accident, it was never inside her crate and always in a corner of the x-pen. I was able to contain her in there for about 1.5 month which helped a LOT with the house training. At night, I would move her crate into our bedroom where she sleeps.
> 
> 3. Once the puppy was reliably housebroken, I set up baby gates in the hallway where she hung out when I wasn't home. From there, I'd open up one room like the laundry room or bathroom, and she had access to that space. I would leave the house to run errands for about 1-2 hours and she was fine. I never came home to an accident and I liked that she was contained, but had room to move around. Her crate was always in these areas and more often than not, I'd come home to her sleeping inside the crate. Just know and be okay with possible damage to your house in those areas when you are not home. Your dog may even chew the drywall or baseboard! Be patient and forgiving because that's what they could do. If you plan on exercising your puppy before you leave for work, that's the ideal thing to do. You do not want a bored puppy left alone at home.
> 
> I was able to get her to hang around the hallway, laundry room, bathroom, and my bedroom for about 5 hours. I tested this set up on days that I was home so that I could see what she behaved like. Of course all those rooms are puppy proof and when I am not home, most things are removed; toilet paper rolls put away, toilet lid down, shower curtain draped to the top of the rod, blankets and pillows put away, etc. There is nothing she could chew on or reach except for her toys, kong treats, and water bowl.
> 
> So, my advice to you would be to invest in a LOT of interesting puppy toys and treats, a good crate, x-pen, and some baby gates. This is the x-pen that I got and I loved how nice it looks and how tall it is.
> 
> Amazon.com: Iris CI-908 Indoor/Outdoor Plastic Pet Pen, 8 Panels: Kitchen & Dining
> 
> 
> Don't get those metal ones unless they are at least 3 feet high. You would believe it, but they grow fast. After a 3 weeks, your puppy may be able to knock one over or even claim the x-pen which could damage your floors!
> 
> It sounds like you can come home at least mid-day so maybe it's not the end of the world if your dog is in the x-pen for 5 hours. Just don't get upset if your puppy has an accident, it will happen!
> 
> It really is a luxury to be able to own and provide for a dog. I've learned that every penny and ounce of energy is worth it. You sound like a responsible dog owner since you are asking for help. I wish you all the luck and hopefully, you will have the dog of your dreams!


Thanks for your thoro response. 

I've considered much of what you've said about putting the crate the an x-pen. I wouldn't mind if the puppy had an accident, accidents are expected. My fear though is that if I were to do something like that and only be able to get home at lunch to take him out, it would be almost impossible to housebreak the puppy - even after staying home with him for a week or two first.


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## mylissyk

So what is your plan? You need to know what you are doing for your puppy before you bring it home.


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## JDK

mylissyk said:


> So what is your plan? You need to know what you are doing for your puppy before you bring it home.


Still trying to come up with a plan, if one at all. I'm obviously not going to pick the puppy up if I don't have a plan. I've made that clear. I have no problem eating my refund if I can't come up with something here.


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## Sophie_Mom

It's a big commitment - I absolutely positively adored my Sawyer puppy, and he was the second Golden puppy we brought home in two years. Devotion and love are not usually the problem. I, too, am a teacher, and was so lucky to be able to be home all day, every day for the first 6 weeks we had him (during the summer). After school began, I came home EVERY SINGLE DAY over my lunch period to let him out and play with him. Every day. For over 2 months. It was a big commitment, and every once in a while, I grumbled about it, but it was absolutely, positively necessary. It isn't fair/kind to expect a puppy to go that long without a potty break/walk/stretch, or especially (in my opinion) human affection and attention. 

The only reason we committed to another puppy (Sawyer) is because I committed to doing all of that for him. If I couldn't have, we wouldn't have gotten him, as sad as that is to say.


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## Serawyn

JDK said:


> Thanks for your thoro response.
> 
> I've considered much of what you've said about putting the crate the an x-pen. I wouldn't mind if the puppy had an accident, accidents are expected. My fear though is that if I were to do something like that and only be able to get home at lunch to take him out, it would be almost impossible to housebreak the puppy - even after staying home with him for a week or two first.


Well, it's all a challenge and by getting a puppy, you should know it will NOT be easy. Since you work full time, it is not an ideal situation. I bet everyone on this board would love to be a stay at home dog mommy and daddy, but we all can't. You will have to accept the fact that it could take weeks, and most likely months for your dog to be housebroken. It comes with not being able to properly spend time and train the dog because you are working. It's not impossible to do. You just have to realize it's a commitment. If you really want this puppy, you have to work for it. There is no short cut. 

I apologize if this is blunt, but you've received a ton of responses and perspectives on this. You need to do what is best for you, but also for this puppy. If you can't put in the commitment, as much as you love dogs, I would not recommend getting one at this time.


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## Dreammom

It is not an ideal situation, but it can be done. I raised 3 pups working full time, one I even was in school part time. I did have some help once in a while, if my parents were shopping in my area they would stop by and let my pups out and play with them but it was not a daily thing. Two of the dogs that were raised this way were great pups, and became great dogs, smart, well behaved and house trained quickly. One was a sweet boy but dumber than a box of rocks LOL...I did make that difficult decision to rehome him, and a month later my circumstances changed - I have always wished I would have gotten him back, but he was happy in his new home.

One of the pups I got by choice, the other two I rescued from death...so I did not have much of a choice. The only one that seemed to have a problem with the hours is the one I rehomed, the other two did really well.

Best of luck in your decision.


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## JDK

Sophie_Mom said:


> It's a big commitment - I absolutely positively adored my Sawyer puppy, and he was the second Golden puppy we brought home in two years. Devotion and love are not usually the problem. I, too, am a teacher, and was so lucky to be able to be home all day, every day for the first 6 weeks we had him (during the summer). After school began, I came home EVERY SINGLE DAY over my lunch period to let him out and play with him. Every day. For over 2 months. It was a big commitment, and every once in a while, I grumbled about it, but it was absolutely, positively necessary. It isn't fair/kind to expect a puppy to go that long without a potty break/walk/stretch, or especially (in my opinion) human affection and attention.
> 
> The only reason we committed to another puppy (Sawyer) is because I committed to doing all of that for him. If I couldn't have, we wouldn't have gotten him, as sad as that is to say.


Not that I'm questioning how you raised your dog. From the sounds of it you did a great job. But, you didn't feel it was cruel to leave the dog after staying with him for that long?

Me personally, I think its kind of cruel to stay home with a dog a long period of time and then suddenly just leave him and put him on a whole new schedule. It's like given the animal the impression you're always going to be there, day-in and day-out, which he adapts to over that time. Then suddenly you're gone and things no longer the same for him.


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## JDK

Serawyn said:


> Well, it's all a challenge and by getting a puppy, you should know it will NOT be easy. Since you work full time, it is not an ideal situation. I bet everyone on this board would love to be a stay at home dog mommy and daddy, but we all can't. You will have to accept the fact that it could take weeks, and most likely months for your dog to be housebroken. It comes with not being able to properly spend time and train the dog because you are working. It's not impossible to do. You just have to realize it's a commitment. If you really want this puppy, you have to work for it. There is no short cut.
> 
> I apologize if this is blunt, but you've received a ton of responses and perspectives on this. You need to do what is best for you, but also for this puppy. If you can't put in the commitment, as much as you love dogs, I would not recommend getting one at this time.


The commitment that needs to go into it is not a problem at all. That's the easy part for me, believe it or not. I thrive on challenges. Like you said though, the fact I work full-time is where I start to question myself and whether or not this is smart, not for me but for the dog mostly.

I still have a few weeks to make the decision, which is why I'm here, to get all the advice and feedback I can before its to late.


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## Serawyn

JDK said:


> Not that I'm questioning how you raised your dog. From the sounds of it you did a great job. But, you didn't feel it was cruel to leave the dog after staying with him for that long?
> 
> Me personally, I think its kind of cruel to stay home with a dog a long period of time and then suddenly just leave him and put him on a whole new schedule. It's like given the animal the impression you're always going to be there, day-in and day-out, which he adapts to over that time. Then suddenly you're gone and things no longer the same for him.


Wow. Just wow. I was trying to HELP and give you a situation on what worked for me. And to answer your question: "You didn't feel it was cruel to leave the dog after staying with him for that long?" NO NO NO. 

Why? Because even when I *was* home, I trained my puppy to have alone time. Whether you're home or working, it is good to teach the dog to learn to be on his or her own for some period of time throughout the day. Dogs love to be around people, but they also need quiet time to themselves. Why do you think crate training is natural for most dogs? They like being inside their den and feel safe there. Even when I am in the room, my puppy *chooses* to go into her crate or gated off area to be alone. 

I am still home so I have not experienced my puppy being left all day by herself. Will I miss her? *Of course.* I wish I could stay home with her forever, but I have a full time job. It is what I have to do in order to own a dog. 

Unlike you, I do have options. My mom will come twice every day to let the puppy out and play with the puppy while I am at work. I also signed her up for two days of doggy-daycare every week. 

I am only providing you with an idea. It sounded like you think it is cruel to do what I suggested earlier so I really don't see any choice for you, but to forgo your deposit. Maybe this is not the best time for you to get a dog. 

So no, I am not being cruel.


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## JDK

Serawyn said:


> Wow. Just wow. I was trying to HELP and give you a situation on what worked for me. And to answer your question: "You didn't feel it was cruel to leave the dog after staying with him for that long?" NO NO NO.
> 
> Why? Because even when I *was* home, I trained my puppy to have alone time. Whether you're home or working, it is good to teach the dog to learn to be on his or her own for some period of time throughout the day. Dogs love to be around people, but they also need quiet time to themselves. Why do you think crate training is natural for most dogs? They like being inside their den and feel safe there. Even when I am in the room, my puppy *chooses* to go into her crate or gated off area to be alone.
> 
> I am still home so I have not experienced my puppy not being left all day by herself. Will I miss her? *Of course.* I wish I could stay home with her forever, but I have a full time job. It is what I have to do in order to own a dog.
> 
> Unlike you, I do have options. My mom will come twice every day to let the puppy out and play with the puppy while I am at work. I also signed her up for two days of doggy-daycare every week.
> 
> I am only providing you with an idea. It sounded like you think it is cruel to do what I suggested earlier so I really don't see any choice for you, but to forgo your deposit. Maybe this is not the best time for you to get a dog.
> 
> So no, I am not being cruel.


It was a question and my opinion on what I thought about the situation mentioned. Apparently you don't take well to questions and other peoples opinions, sorry. I'll ask other people next time. You didn't say you were training your puppy to have "alone time" in the process. Only now do you make that clear. Knowing that, I feel differently about the situation. 

Neither here nor there, as I said before thanks for your thorough response and your suggestions.


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## Sweet Girl

Serawyn said:


> Many people on this board will tell you it is cruel to leave a puppy in his crate for 8 hours. *Some may even say take 2 weeks off when you first get the puppy. There's the dog walker idea, having a friend or neighbor come, doggy daycare, etc*. *But the reality is, it's a luxury to be able to do any of this.* If this is a requirement to become a responsible dog owner, then many, many people should never and could never get a dog.


I honestly don't see it as a luxury. I see it as responsible and in the best interest of the dog.

I personally don't think someone should bring a brand new puppy home and then go right back to work fulltime. I just don't see how a puppy can be housetrained that way. You yourself said you were off 2.5 months as you're a teacher. If JDK can be home for the first 2 weeks, I think that's great. Responsible. Necessary. Not a luxury.

As for a walker, yes, I agree some may see it as a luxury. I don't consider it one (mine doesn't cost $50 a day, though. I'm still realy curious where JDK lives that dogwalkers charge $50 a day. In Manhatten, they're right around the $18 a day rate). I consider it something my dog needs and should have. She didn't sign up for being cooped up in the house all day long - I don't think it would be fair to her. I didn't think it was fair when she was a pup, when she was an adult, and I don't think it is now when she's a senior. 

I'd be pretty surprised if anyone here said it is a luxury to be able to bring home an 8-week-old puppy and go right back to work fulltime with no time to housetrain - and further, no walker.


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## JDK

Sweet Girl said:


> I honestly don't see it as a luxury. I see it as responsible and in the best interest of the dog.
> 
> I personally don't think someone should bring a brand new puppy home and then go right back to work fulltime. I just don't see how a puppy can be housetrained that way. You yourself said you were off 2.5 months as you're a teacher. If JDK can be home for the first 2 weeks, I think that's great. Responsible. Necessary. Not a luxury.
> 
> As for a walker, yes, I agree some may see it as a luxury. I don't consider it one (mine doesn't cost $50 a day, though. I'm still realy curious where JDK lives that dogwalkers charge $50 a day. In Manhatten, they're right around the $18 a day rate). I consider it something my dog needs and should have. She didn't sign up for being cooped up in the house all day long - I don't think it would be fair to her. I didn't think it was fair when she was a pup, when she was an adult, and I don't think it is now when she's a senior.
> 
> I'd be pretty surprised if anyone here said it is a luxury to be able to bring home an 8-week-old puppy and go right back to work fulltime with no time to housetrain - and further, no walker.


I found a slightly cheaper dog walker late last night. $28 for a half hour visit. But from what I'm figuring here, if I go with the pup pup and not the 5 month old pup, the walker will need to come atleast 2-3 times a day, and that's where I can't afford it. If it were just once that would be great. I'm trying to contact these people and see if they maybe possible have some sort of package deal for customers who plan to use them regularly for a few months.


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## Deb_Bayne

The reason I got a puppy now is my hours of work changed, I'm home for him in between shifts (I'm a bus driver) when I was working 8 + hours a day and my husband also was working even from home I did not entertain the idea of having a dog until 'I' was able to give it/him/her almost 100% of my time and attention. Unfortunately, I don't see you being able to give your puppy all the crucial time it needs for your attention at least for the first few months of it's life. 

I didn't read all the posts before me, but I know many have echoed my concerns.


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## Sweet Girl

JDK - You started by asking the question: what are my options? Here's what I see as the options. 

1. Stay home for the first few weeks and housetrain.

2. Hire someone to come in at LEAST once a day while the puppy is young; once a day once it is older.

3. Get an older dog who is already fully housetrained and can stay by himself all day. In this situation, I would STILL recommend taking some time off to get the dog adjusted to a new home, but not necessarily two weeks.

4. Hold off getting a puppy til you can do these things.

5. Get the puppy. Leave it alone all day. Have an untrained, miserable dog who never gets fully trained. Get frustrated when it starts to chew and destroy stuff around your house. Surrender it to the SPCA. 

I hope you won't take option 5.


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## Ranger

Personally after raising two pups this summer, I can't imagine not being home with them when they were that young and looking after them. I had them in crates for 4 hours at a time and that was about it until they were closer to 10 weeks. There is a huge difference in them between 8 and 10 weeks...I know it's only "2 weeks" but it's a BIG 2 weeks! 

That being said, I don't think anyone is an awful dog owner for having to work a full-time job and still wanting a puppy. I sent one pup off to a new home when he was 15 weeks and he went from 2-4 hours a day in the crate to 8 hours in a crate with a dog walker at lunch and doggie daycare twice a week. But, he was housebroken and crate-trained by the time he went.

I'm about to send off my second foster pup to her new home this afternoon. She's going to be in a crate for 9 hours a day, but again is having a dog walker come in and look after her for an hour at noon for a few weeks. And she's crate-trained and on the way to being house-broken. 

I guess my rambling point is that maybe a slightly older pup might be more ideal? Instead of 8 weeks maybe 15 weeks? Or even 5-6 months? That way they should be house-trained and crate-trained...and a little more adult. Honestly at 8 weeks they are just babies and need a ton of attention and care. Once they hit the 15 week stage they're a little more self-reliant, can hold their pee better, and generally more able to cope. Just a thought!


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## Sophie_Mom

lol - That is an interesting way of looking at things. Do I think it was cruel that I was able to be at home full-time with my puppy for 6 weeks??? Um, no. It gave him 6 weeks to be at home with someone that was able to train him. I didn't suddenly put him on a new schedule. He had 6 weeks to adjust and adapt to what his schedule would be and was for those 6 weeks. He always had quiet time and kennel/nap time during that time. I wasn't home 24/7. Like babies, puppies thrive on schedules. We worked up to periods of time when he was left at home alone (and with our 3 year old Golden as well). He had a companion for the time he was going to be at home without a person, which makes a world of difference to a puppy. 

It's definitely a different perspective that you put out there. I couldn't disagree with it more though. Many people take weeks off to bring a puppy home. Initially, puppies need to go outside every 20-30 minutes to potty. Having had the time to do that is a gift - for me and for my puppy. 

We were also fortunate in terms of schedule. I leave for work at about 7:35. I was home between 11:25 and noon each day for lunch, play, potty time, etc. My husband gets home from work at 2:30 in the afternoon, and my 13 year old son was home by 2:45. His "all day" stretch wasn't nearly as long as your typical 8 hour work day. We also have a neighbor that was available if we ever needed an additional visit.


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## Sweet Girl

Ranger said:


> That being said, I don't think anyone is an awful dog owner for having to work a full-time job and still wanting a puppy. I sent one pup off to a new home when he was 15 weeks and he went from 2-4 hours a day in the crate to 8 hours in a crate with a dog walker at lunch and doggie daycare twice a week. But, he was housebroken and crate-trained by the time he went.


Totally agree.


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## Rainheart

I'm only going to chime in here to repeat what others have said. I got Beamer at 8 weeks right after school got out for the summer. I have had almost 3 months with him before classes start back up in late August. I work full time this summer, but he comes with me everyday. If I didn't have that luxury, I don't know how I would have been able to handle a pup since my mom works nights and sleeps during the day.

Once school starts back up, I will have classes from 9:30 or 10 through 12 M-F. Then I am usually done, or I have lab in the afternoon. My schedule is very good to work with a 5 month old puppy and I am very thankful for that. 

I do think you are better off with a 5 month old pup if you are still considering.


----------



## JDK

Sweet Girl said:


> JDK - You started by asking the question: what are my options? Here's what I see as the options.
> 
> 1. Stay home for the first few weeks and housetrain.
> 
> 2. Hire someone to come in at LEAST once a day while the puppy is young; once a day once it is older.
> 
> 3. Get an older dog who is already fully housetrained and can stay by himself all day. In this situation, I would STILL recommend taking some time off to get the dog adjusted to a new home, but not necessarily two weeks.
> 
> 4. Hold off getting a puppy til you can do these things.
> 
> 5. Get the puppy. Leave it alone all day. Have an untrained, miserable dog who never gets fully trained. Get frustrated when it starts to chew and destroy stuff around your house. Surrender it to the SPCA.
> 
> I hope you won't take option 5.


Don't worry, #5 isn't even an option. I'm much smarter than that.

For #1 - the most somebody could stay home is 2 weeks straight. Me one week, my gf the next. That seems like a stretch though, trying to housebreak a dog in 2 weeks. Not to mention, he'll only be what, 2 months by then? Wouldn't holding it for 4-5 hours until a walker (or me) got to him to let him out still be a little long for a 2 month old?

For #2 - Once again, wouldn't holding it for 4-5 hours until a walker (or me) got to him to let him out be a little long for a 2 month old?

For #3 - An older dog is a possibility, a good one too. What age would you suggest. I would like as young as possible, but once again, not to young where I can't do what need to be done. Would the 5 month old I talk about seem like a good fit, or should I go a little older?

For #4 - That may just be what we'll be doing if I can't come up with a plan.


----------



## JDK

Ranger said:


> Personally after raising two pups this summer, I can't imagine not being home with them when they were that young and looking after them. I had them in crates for 4 hours at a time and that was about it until they were closer to 10 weeks. There is a huge difference in them between 8 and 10 weeks...I know it's only "2 weeks" but it's a BIG 2 weeks!
> 
> That being said, I don't think anyone is an awful dog owner for having to work a full-time job and still wanting a puppy. I sent one pup off to a new home when he was 15 weeks and he went from 2-4 hours a day in the crate to 8 hours in a crate with a dog walker at lunch and doggie daycare twice a week. But, he was housebroken and crate-trained by the time he went.
> 
> I'm about to send off my second foster pup to her new home this afternoon. She's going to be in a crate for 9 hours a day, but again is having a dog walker come in and look after her for an hour at noon for a few weeks. And she's crate-trained and on the way to being house-broken.
> 
> I guess my rambling point is that maybe a slightly older pup might be more ideal? Instead of 8 weeks maybe 15 weeks? Or even 5-6 months? That way they should be house-trained and crate-trained...and a little more adult. Honestly at 8 weeks they are just babies and need a ton of attention and care. Once they hit the 15 week stage they're a little more self-reliant, can hold their pee better, and generally more able to cope. Just a thought!


I've having a hard time find a pure breed golden that's older then a couple weeks, aside from the two females my breeder has that are 5 months. I can't tell you how many breeders I've emailed in the past 2 days looking for one. Any suggestions?


----------



## JDK

Sophie_Mom said:


> lol - That is an interesting way of looking at things. Do I think it was cruel that I was able to be at home full-time with my puppy for 6 weeks??? Um, no. It gave him 6 weeks to be at home with someone that was able to train him. I didn't suddenly put him on a new schedule. He had 6 weeks to adjust and adapt to what his schedule would be and was for those 6 weeks. He always had quiet time and kennel/nap time during that time. I wasn't home 24/7. Like babies, puppies thrive on schedules. We worked up to periods of time when he was left at home alone (and with our 3 year old Golden as well). He had a companion for the time he was going to be at home without a person, which makes a world of difference to a puppy.
> 
> It's definitely a different perspective that you put out there. I couldn't disagree with it more though. Many people take weeks off to bring a puppy home. Initially, puppies need to go outside every 20-30 minutes to potty. Having had the time to do that is a gift - for me and for my puppy.
> 
> We were also fortunate in terms of schedule. I leave for work at about 7:35. I was home between 11:25 and noon each day for lunch, play, potty time, etc. My husband gets home from work at 2:30 in the afternoon, and my 13 year old son was home by 2:45. His "all day" stretch wasn't nearly as long as your typical 8 hour work day. We also have a neighbor that was available if we ever needed an additional visit.


I think it's great if you can stay home with your puppy and train him to have alone time. But I know people who have stayed home for a month, played with their puppy every single minute of the day and then suddenly just left one day to go back to work, putting the puppy in a crate to have things never be the same. They never put the pup on a schedule. It was nothing but fun and games for that whole month, then after it was nothing but being alone and wondering where everybody went.


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## Pawz's mama

I have read each, and every comment that was written here. Some I agree with, and some I don't. I am a work from home mom to 3 children, and 1 Golden fur kid Pawz, and we are about to bring home our new addition in the middle of August, another Golden, but a female this time. I am here the majority of the time, so I do have the time to devote to each member of the household. I do daily training, and I make sure that Pawz get's the mental, and physical exercise that he needs, every single day! That being said, everyones situation is certainly different, and not everyone has the option of working from home, and in my opinion that doesn't mean they shouldn't own a pet, but it does mean they should be doing everything they can do to ensure that the pet is leading a happy, healthy life. It sounds like you care for your future pet's well being, and generally have their best interest at heart. I have a lot of experience training/ raising dogs, and Golden Retrievers definitely like to be around thier humans, they thrive on it actually. I would say as long as you are willing to take a few weeks off to get him/her started on the right paw, and you are willing to come home yourself, or have someone come in to allow for potty breaks/stimulation, and you are willing to spend quality time with, and exercise the dog after work, then go for it. I would definitely lean more towards the 5 month old though, for sure. Hope this helped some! Feel free to pm me with any questions.


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## Deb_Bayne

JDK said:


> For #1 - the most somebody could stay home is 2 weeks straight. Me one week, my gf the next. That seems like a stretch though, *trying to housebreak a dog in 2 weeks. Not to mention, he'll only be what, 2 months by then? *Wouldn't holding it for 4-5 hours until a walker (or me) got to him to let him out still be a little long for a 2 month old?


Are you picking the puppy up at 6 weeks old? Usually breeders let the puppies go at 8 wks (2 months).

Just reading over your responses and defensiveness, I don't believe you really have any idea what it's like to raise a puppy. I sure didn't and I had dogs all my life, like you said, you also had dogs but your parents raised them, so did mine. Getting Bayne at 9 weeks, I was home with him for the winter break (1 week) and wasn't even close to be housebroken and still isn't at 7 months. Sure it doesn't happen as often but there still are accidents in that we are still learning how to recognize the 'not so obvious' signs that he want's to go outside. We're working on it and in the process of a 'new' technique. I couldn't imagine depending on dog walkers or only being with him for a few hours before bed and that was it.


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## JDK

Those of you following along here, instead of starting another thread let me just ask for your opinions here on the 5 month old.

Let me give you the situation again, and you let me know if you feel it's a good fit for the dog.

-Somebody would be able to stay home with the dog for at least a week, or two if needed, in order to "welcome" her to her new home. 
-She would get a nice long walk/run around the neighbor hood before I left for work at 7:30.
- Me or a walker would walk her once at day at lunch, around 12:30-1.
- Me and my GF would be home by 4pm to care for her the rest of the night. I don't go to sleep until 1am, so I'd always be around for her at night to let her out and etc. If she wanted it, she would have human interaction from 4pm to 1am, and then from 6am to 7:30am.
- She would only be in the crate when she needed to be and no longer, unless it's for training purposes.

In your opinion, would a 5 month old dog be fit for this situation?


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## JDK

Deb_Bayne said:


> Are you picking the puppy up at 6 weeks old? Usually breeders let the puppies go at 8 wks (2 months).


He would be 7 weeks.


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## Pawz's mama

JDK said:


> Those of you following along here, instead of starting another thread let me just ask for your opinions here on the 5 month old.
> 
> Let me give you the situation again, and you let me know if you feel it's a good fit for the dog.
> 
> -Somebody would be able to stay home with the dog for at least a week, or two if needed, in order to "welcome" her to her new home.
> -She would get a nice long walk/run around the neighbor hood before I left for work at 7:30.
> - Me or a walker would walk her once at day at lunch, around 12:30-1.
> - Me and my GF would be home by 4pm to care for her the rest of the night. I don't go to sleep until 1am, so I'd always be around for her at night to let her out and etc.
> - She would only be in the crate when she needed to be and no longer, unless it's for training purposes.
> 
> In your opinion, would a 5 month old dog be fit for this situation?


 I have already given my opinion, but yes I think as long as you are willing to do these things daily, a 5 month old would be fine  I think you will make the dog's needs a priority, and I think it will work out just fine!


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## Sophie_Mom

A five month old would be a far better choice to fit the schedule that you have in mind. 

I know not everyone has the ability to stay home with their pets, and I don't think that should preclude anyone from having a pet IF you have options set up to ensure a humane schedule for the dog, including mid-day walks, daycare, or others....


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## JDK

Pawz's mama said:


> I have already given my opinion, but yes I think as long as you are willing to do these things daily, a 5 month old would be fine  I think you will make the dog's needs a priority, and I think it will work out just fine!


As you can see, I don't even have the dog yet and it's needs are already my top priority


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## JDK

Out of curiosity, when does a dog no longer need to go out mid-day?


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## Sweet Girl

JDK said:


> Don't worry, #5 isn't even an option. I'm much smarter than that.
> 
> For #1 - the most somebody could stay home is 2 weeks straight. Me one week, my gf the next. That seems like a stretch though, trying to housebreak a dog in 2 weeks. Not to mention, he'll only be what, 2 months by then? Wouldn't holding it for 4-5 hours until a walker (or me) got to him to let him out still be a little long for a 2 month old?
> 
> For #2 - Once again, wouldn't holding it for 4-5 hours until a walker (or me) got to him to let him out be a little long for a 2 month old?
> 
> For #3 - An older dog is a possibility, a good one too. What age would you suggest. I would like as young as possible, but once again, not to young where I can't do what need to be done. Would the 5 month old I talk about seem like a good fit, or should I go a little older?
> 
> For #4 - That may just be what we'll be doing if I can't come up with a plan.


My dog came home to me at 9 weeks old. She was housetrained by the end of week one that she was home with me; by the end of week two, I knew it was rock solid.

This is not the case with all dogs, I realize. Maybe I got lucky. 

So at 11 weeks old, she was fine for 4-5 hours (when the dogwalker came). 

I really do think an older, already housetrained dog is the better way for you to go. I also think you should read up on crate training. Putting the dog in the crate is not a punishment in any way. (I read that from where you said the dog would only be in the crate when need be and no longer). In fact, many, many dogs grow to love their crates and see them as safe havens. 

As for when a dog doesn't need to go out midday - physically, I guess they can at some point (I'm not positive, to tell you the truth). But I'm of the mind that a dog should be allowed to go out midday to both go to the bathroom, and get some fresh air and exercise. Now, I don;t want everyone to jump on me and say, "oh, what a luxury - not everyone can do that." I know that. It is just my opinion.


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## JDK

Sweet Girl said:


> My dog came home to me at 9 weeks old. She was housetrained by the end of week one that she was home with me; by the end of week two, I knew it was rock solid.
> 
> This is not the case with all dogs, I realize. Maybe I got lucky.
> 
> So at 11 weeks old, she was fine for 4-5 hours (when the dogwalker came).
> 
> I really do think an older, already housetrained dog is the better way for you to go. I also think you should read up on crate training. Putting the dog in the crate is not a punishment in any way. In fact, many, many dogs grow to love their crates and see them as safe havens.
> 
> As for when a dog doesn't need to go out midday - physically, I guess they can at some point (I'm not positive, to tell you the truth). But I'm of the mind that a dog should be allowed to go out midday to both go to the bathroom, and get some fresh air and exercise. Now, I don;t want everyone to jump on me and say, "oh, what a luxury - not everyone can do that." I know that. It is just my opinion.


I've read a lot about crate training actually, and know how some dogs come to love them and sleep in them regularly. I don't believe its an punishment at all. I think they're great when used properly.

Since we got all our dogs when I was younger, I can't recall when the time came that they didn't have to go out mid-day and could hold it until my parents got home from work. I do remember though that there came a time when they learned the schedule and if you did in fact come home at lunch, they were passed out and didn't even want to get up and go out. I also believe, if possible, they should be allowed to go out midday, but like you said, we know its just not possible for everybody.


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## paula bedard

This is how you answered my suggestion of adopting an older dog.



JDK said:


> I've had two rescue dogs before and wasn't very pleased. Love the idea of saving a life, but don't want a dog that's skittish due to it's past. The two I had were lovely, but when other people came around, forget it. They were not to be seen anywhere.


Here's how you answered another member's same suggestion.



> For #3 - An older dog is a possibility, a good one too. What age would you suggest. I would like as young as possible, but once again, not to young where I can't do what need to be done. Would the 5 month old I talk about seem like a good fit, or should I go a little older?


Quite honestly, you seem to be all over the place. Not meant to be rude, just an observation. 

There are many wonderful dogs in Rescues, pure breeds and mixes, any one of them could be the perfect companion for you. Not every dog is thrown away because it has issues. Sadly, too many are thrown away because their owners have issues.


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## JDK

Here's my worry about a slightly older dog. They're probably use to being around somebody all day long. I'll be putting them in an entirely different situation where they'll be alone for half the day. Won't that effect the dog? Or will they adapt since they're still so young?

I have friends who have tell me to get a rescue that's like 2yrs old, which sounds great, but I think I would feel bad taking a dog that's use to be around people and leaving them home alone for half the day. Doesn't that in a way seem cruel, or is it just the way I'm looking at it?


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## JDK

paula bedard said:


> This is how you answered my suggestion of adopting an older dog.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's how you answered another member's same suggestion.
> 
> 
> 
> Quite honestly, you seem to be all over the place. Not meant to be rude, just an observation.
> 
> There are many wonderful dogs in Rescues, pure breeds and mixes, any one of them could be the perfect companion for you. Not every dog is thrown away because it has issues. Sadly, too many are thrown away because their owners have issues.


You mentioned getting a rescue, the other member mentioned an older dog, not necessarily a rescue. The questions are different and the answers are meant to different. Sorry for the misunderstanding. 

I wouldn't really say I'm all over the place. I'm just open to options/opinions here and trying to weigh out which one is the best, and if my original plan isn't good what are some other things I can do. Brainstorming may at times seem like it's all over the place


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## mylissyk

Rescue dogs adapt, it's a pretty common scenario for them to go from a foster home into an adoption where the new owners work. Everyone works, you have to buy dog food! 

In a lot of instances the foster home also had working "parents", so the dog will be used to being left alone while they are at work.

If you go through an established rescue group that houses their dogs with foster families these are questions you can ask the people who have been living with the dog. They can tell you about the personality, energy level, habits, etc. because they know the dog well. It is a win, win situation. The dog is well cared for, you get a lot of information about him/her, and adopting that dog makes room for another dog to be rescued and taken into foster care.

It would be different if you adopted straight from a shelter. I would strongly encourage you to contact the local Golden Retriever rescue groups in your area, you can find them listed here:

www.grca-nrc.org


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## paula bedard

JDK said:


> Here's my worry about a slightly older dog. They're probably use to being around somebody all day long. I'll be putting them in an entirely different situation where they'll be alone for half the day. Won't that effect the dog? Or will they adapt since they're still so young?
> 
> I have friends who have tell me to get a rescue that's like 2yrs old, which sounds great, but I think I would feel bad taking a dog that's use to be around people and leaving them home alone for half the day. Doesn't that in a way seem cruel, or is it just the way I'm looking at it?


These dogs would love to have a forever home and would make wonderful companions for you. Many dogs are home for hours at a time while their owners are at work. Granted I don't work, but I understand that many families have to and do. You've heard many examples in this thread of people who have made it work. I just think a rescue is better suited for your family at this time.


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## JDK

mylissyk said:


> Rescue dogs adapt, it's a pretty common scenario for them to go from a foster home into an adoption where the new owners work. Everyone works, you have to buy dog food!
> 
> In a lot of instances the foster home also had working "parents", so the dog will be used to being left alone while they are at work.
> 
> If you go through an established rescue group that houses their dogs with foster families these are questions you can ask the people who have been living with the dog. They can tell you about the personality, energy level, habits, etc. because they know the dog well. It is a win, win situation. The dog is well cared for, you get a lot of information about him/her, and adopting that dog makes room for another dog to be rescued and taken into foster care.
> 
> It would be different if you adopted straight from a shelter. I would strongly encourage you to contact the local Golden Retriever rescue groups in your area, you can find them listed here:
> 
> www.grca-nrc.org


I'll look into the link provided and consider the option, provided its the right dog.


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## kwhit

JDK said:


> Here's my worry about a slightly older dog. They're probably use to being around somebody all day long. I'll be putting them in an entirely different situation where they'll be alone for half the day.


This is totally based on an assumption...many foster families work all day, so the dogs in their care are already used to being alone. When you deal with a reputable rescue, their fosters will be able to give a full assessment on the dogs and will match them to the best homes for the dog's particular needs and also those of the adopter.

Don't underestimate the skills of a good rescue to match up their dogs with suitable homes. They want the match to succeed just as much as you would, probably more so.


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## baileyboym22

I appreciate the comment/outline above. Really- what drives any individual to want animals in their lives? I'm neither new to Goldens and certainly not new to horses and families with animals. I've been friends with individuals who honestly surround themselves with their pet/s because simply their souls (the people) are the kind meant to have animals in their families. I hope I am from that group. I've met others who are incredibly responsible and look to develop the best, healthiest, brightest type of service or field dog either because of what is given back, or the joy of watching these animals shine in a different way through positive experiences and bonding. There are others, adults, who just want them because they want them. Get the Goldendoodle. It's hip. Get the kids those lizards, bunnies, cats - and when the kids forget about them....I've been in situations where not a kind word is said to a gentle old soul of a dog simply because people can't be bothered. The new itouch or game on the iphone is much more important. 
Bello is my second Golden. I did a lot of research, planning, back up planning, etc. before committing. The best people I know told me that yes, if I could bring Bello with me to work starting at 9 weeks, follow through with crate training there and at home, as long as it is safe and responsible, and I had backups. Bello comes with me to work, gets amazing socialization (in a safe environment), is doing great with the crate training, knows his routine. Nothing at the moment comes before him. He's already giving me so much. I am paying 56.00 day for pet sitting when bringing him is not an option. 4-5 visits/play a day. I also knew my pet sitter before purchasing him and know that she is AMAZING. I wanted to get a rescue because I knew the type of home I could offer, however that would have been harder on the Great Dane we share a house with....Perhaps the question JDK - is why am I accepting the responsibility of having a pet, and do I see that as a responsibility to the pet~


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## baileyboym22

I was just reading through another post. My answer to your question when does dog not need to go outside midday is NEVER. So, you have some things to figure out.


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## Sterling Archer

We got Butter at six weeks. It didn't take him long to potty train and adapt to our schedule (both myself and my wife work). I did have the flexibility to scoot home on my lunch break and let him out though. I wouldn't have gotten a puppy if I was unable to do that. Just my $.02.


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## Mirinde

This is a little far out, but my fiance and I are planning on bringing home another pup not this coming winter, but next winter. My winter break from school is almost a month long and he has a mandatory week off of work for the holidays. We're going to try really hard to find a pup that is closer to 10 weeks old so that by the time he has to be crated (I go to school full time and my fiance works full time) he/she be almost four months old. At that point, he/she will need to be crated for upwards of four-five hours a day, a few days a week. 

Point is, does your company have a time of year that they do a mandatory vacation time dump that you could coordinate getting your puppy around, especially one closer to three/four months old, rather than closer to two months old? Working full time with a dog is not necessarily bad, especially as they get older, it's getting over the brand new puppy hurdle that involves potty training/bonding/etc. 

Also, I think your concerns about an older dog being used to being around people and then being upset with being left alone are not entirely reasonable-- you can definitely teach a dog to be left alone very quickly and most dogs are quite resilient =) Also, chances are, if you get an older dog (especially from a rescue), it will already be used to times alone. 

(I feel like some of the posters here are becoming more defensive than the OP...)


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## paula bedard

Been thinking about this. A dog who's been in a rescue or foster situation will have had time to be assessed. It's personality, energy level, temperament, and whether it gets along well with other animals (you have ferrets and a cat) will be known. Some dogs are couch potatoes until their owners grab the leash. Others will find something to amuse themselves if no one is entertaining them. You'll be able to find the dog that suits your lifestyle by going the adoption route. My son and daughter have both adopted rescues. My daughter adopted an older dog and she has found her canine soulmate. He literally adores her, has from the moment he set eyes on her. He's crated while she's at work, but she comes home every day to walk him and share her lunch with him. My son's pup came to him at 12wks of age. I've had the pleasure of raising this little guy while my son works long hours, sometimes weekends too. A brand new puppy is alot of work and without proper socialization, exercise, obedience training, etc, you'll most likely end up with a handful. The only reason my son got his little puppy was because he has me to rely on. He gets his first dog, my Ike gets a best friend, I have my psuedo first grandchild, and everyone's happy. 

Good luck with your decision. Your best friend is out there waiting for you.


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## Pawz's mama

Mirinde said:


> This is a little far out, but my fiance and I are planning on bringing home another pup not this coming winter, but next winter. My winter break from school is almost a month long and he has a mandatory week off of work for the holidays. We're going to try really hard to find a pup that is closer to 10 weeks old so that by the time he has to be crated (I go to school full time and my fiance works full time) he/she be almost four months old. At that point, he/she will need to be crated for upwards of four-five hours a day, a few days a week.
> 
> Point is, does your company have a time of year that they do a mandatory vacation time dump that you could coordinate getting your puppy around, especially one closer to three/four months old, rather than closer to two months old? Working full time with a dog is not necessarily bad, especially as they get older, it's getting over the brand new puppy hurdle that involves potty training/bonding/etc.
> 
> Also, I think your concerns about an older dog being used to being around people and then being upset with being left alone are not entirely reasonable-- you can definitely teach a dog to be left alone very quickly and most dogs are quite resilient =) Also, chances are, if you get an older dog (especially from a rescue), it will already be used to times alone.
> 
> (I feel like some of the posters here are becoming more defensive than the OP...)


 I strongly agree with the last part of your post. There are definitely very strong opinions in here, a lot of the time, and sometimes I find it very unreasonable, and too judgemental. The thing is, everybody is different, and every dog is different! That's what makes the world go round


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## kwhit

Pawz's mama said:


> There are definitely very strong opinions in here, a lot of the time, and sometimes I find it very unreasonable, and too judgemental. The thing is, everybody is different, and every dog is different! That's what makes the world go round


Having those "very strong" opinions and being able to express them is also what makes the world go round. Anyone that asks for opinions on a public forum whose members are _very_ passionate about the subject matter, (here, it happens to be Goldens), need to be wearing their BGP, (Big Girl Panties), and expect some of those opinions to be sometimes intense.

I don't think any of the members here mean to be judgmental or unreasonable, it's just different delivery styles. I truly believe the intent always comes from a good place that wants to help and if it's a strong message, then so be it. Sometimes that's what it takes.


----------



## JDK

baileyboym22 said:


> I was just reading through another post. My answer to your question when does dog not need to go outside midday is NEVER. So, you have some things to figure out.


Let's be real here, this isn't the truth.


----------



## JDK

kwhit said:


> Having those "very strong" opinions and being able to express them is also what makes the world go round. Anyone that asks for opinions on a public forum whose members are _very_ passionate about the subject matter, (here, it happens to be Goldens), need to be wearing their BGP, (Big Girl Panties), and expect some of those opinions to be sometimes intense.
> 
> I don't think any of the members here mean to be judgmental or unreasonable, it's just different delivery styles. I truly believe the intent always comes from a good place that wants to help and if it's a strong message, then so be it. Sometimes that's what it takes.


I respect and read everybody's opinion. It's our right to have our own opinion on things. Not to mention opinions are like a$$holes, everybody has one.


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## JDK

How do you guys go about finding a pure breed golden that's that's a few months old? I've contacted plenty of breeders and nobody has any dogs that are a few months old since they're usually spoken for before the litter is even born. Is this something I'll have to find through a rescue? 

On another note, I heard back from the breeder I've been dealing with, the one who I mentioned has the 5 month old. Well, she had two 5 month old's as of 2 weeks ago. She told me she has since sold one and is thinking of keeping the other, which puts a damper on my hopes of picking her up. The breeder didn't entirely rule out giving her up and the fact she mentioned "thinking of keeping" still gives me hope.


----------



## Pawz's mama

JDK said:


> How do you guys go about finding a pure breed golden that's that's a few months old? I've contacted plenty of breeders and nobody has any dogs that are a few months old since they're usually spoken for before the litter is even born. Is this something I'll have to find through a rescue?
> 
> On another note, I heard back from the breeder I've been dealing with, the one who I mentioned has the 5 month old. Well, she had two 5 month old's as of 2 weeks ago. She told me she has since sold one and is thinking of keeping the other, which puts a damper on my hopes of picking her up. The breeder didn't entirely rule out giving her up and the fact she mentioned "thinking of keeping" still gives me hope.


 I would just express to her that you wish to purchase a 5 month old, rather than an 8 week old because of your lifestyle. I'm sure she will respect that, and maybe she will let you have her  If not, I'm sure you will be able to find an older pup, I see them listed all the time. Just do your research, and be careful where you purchase from.


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## Sally's Mom

I am fortunate that I can take my pups to work with me, plus I only work 4 days/week and my husband has most afternoons off... But I still remember the woman who used to cut my mom's hair had a dachshund. She lived right in Center City, Pa, but worked in the 'burbs. She let her dog out once in the AM and once in the PM! Yikes!! Probably just as weird as a client I had with cats that only fed his cats every other day. Neither situation would work for me, but the animals seemed ok.


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## Sweet Girl

JDK said:


> Let's be real here, this isn't the truth.


But is IS the opinion of some people here. My dog may be _able_ to go 12 hours without going out - but I won't do that to her because it's not good for her health, it's uncomfortable for her, and frankly, I think it's cruel. She's entitled to a better life that that. 

Why get a dog if it's just going to be cooped up all day? (Whether for 8 hours, 10, or 12)? Dogs aren't weekend toys.

And this isn't me being defensive; this is simply me stating my opinion. Which is what the OP came here looking for - opinions and advice. Many here may disagree with me. But if people don't like someone's opinion and advice, it's too easy to say that person is being judgemental. Really, they just disagree.


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## JDK

Sweet Girl said:


> But is IS the opinion of some people here. My dog may be _able_ to go 12 hours without going out - but I won't do that to her because it's not good for her health, it's uncomfortable for her, and frankly, I think it's cruel. She's entitled to a better life that that.
> 
> Why get a dog if it's just going to be cooped up all day? (Whether for 8 hours, 10, or 12)? Dogs aren't weekend toys.
> 
> And this isn't me being defensive; this is simply me stating my opinion. Which is what the OP came here looking for - opinions and advice. Many here may disagree with me. But if people don't like someone's opinion and advice, it's too easy to say that person is being judgemental. Really, they just disagree.


I'm the OP 

Nothing wrong with sharing your opinion. I enjoy hearing them just as much as I enjoy giving my own. Some people take things a little to seriously as if they're children, which I don't know, maybe they are, but I'm cool with it.

8 hours IMO is no way being cooped up all day. That's only 1/3 of the day. Once your dog is of age and learns your schedule and is able to have free roam of the house, I don't see a reason why they can't be left home for 8hrs. Especially if when you come home that dog is given constant attention.

Different strokes for different folks though, right? It'd be a little scary if everybody in the world thought the same :uhoh:


----------



## SeaMonster

we just got a puppy we both have fulltime jobs.
She is in the crate from 8AM-3PM
My wife comes home at noon and lets puppy out to potty and back into the crate she goes.

Puppy got used to that schedule so now on weekends she sleeps from 8-3 (she just goes in the crate with the door open), wakes up around noon for an hour or so. 

BUT when we are not working, we spend every minute with her. so shes in the crate for 6 hours and spends about 6 hours with us per day + the entire weekend.


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## Mirinde

BTW, I'm also curious as to why the puppy needs to be crated at night? It seems like the "In a crate all day and then in a crate all night" seems to hang people up but I've honestly never had or known a dog that was crated at night. We sleep with our cuddle bug and he's always woken us up to go potty from day one. May not work for you, but some more food for thought =)


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## JDK

Mirinde said:


> BTW, I'm also curious as to why the puppy needs to be crated at night? It seems like the "In a crate all day and then in a crate all night" seems to hang people up but I've honestly never had or known a dog that was crated at night. We sleep with our cuddle bug and he's always woken us up to go potty from day one. May not work for you, but some more food for thought =)


I wouldn't crate an animal at night if it didn't need to be, or at any time of the day when I was home. I would only do so if it wasn't housebroken yet.


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## Sally's Mom

Mine are in boxes at night until they are no longer velociraptors. My young dogs have been known to jump on the bed in the middle of the night and start to lick us...


----------



## Mirinde

Sally's Mom said:


> Mine are in boxes at night until they are no longer velociraptors. My young dogs have been known to jump on the bed in the middle of the night and start to lick us...


Awww! But that's the best part!


----------



## outabout

When I had my first golden some 13 years ago, I was working full time and single. My Whiskey was 4 months old when I got him. I kept him gated in the kitchen while I was at the work. As far as I remember, it was relatively uneventful getting him potty trained. 

We got our current pup Amber at 5 months age from a breeder. I found her by just goggling and checking each breeder's website. Amber was in the crate while we were at the work, my Mom would let her out in midday, but almost everytime she didn't need to pee/poo. She was able to hold 6-8 hours no problem. 

We have a dog door that goes to a enclosed and shaded dog run. Could you create a setup like this? This would probably help a lot with potty training.

Good luck!


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## JDK

outabout said:


> We have a dog door that goes to a enclosed and shaded dog run. Could you create a setup like this? This would probably help a lot with potty training.
> 
> Good luck!


I wish I could create a setup like that, but its not possible with my current living situation.

My gf and I have decided that whatever we come to do, we'll be able to take 3 weeks off to stay with the dog. I can take 1 and she has 2 coming to her.


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## Pawz's mama

JDK said:


> I wish I could create a setup like that, but its not possible with my current living situation.
> 
> My gf and I have decided that whatever we come to do, we'll be able to take 3 weeks off to stay with the dog. I can take 1 and she has 2 coming to her.


 Yay! That's so awesome. Definitely keep us updated, and let us know which pup you decide to go with!! We wanna see pictures


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## SeaMonster

Is that really a good idea? Puppy gets used to u being home all the time and then all of a sudden u r back to work


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## Pawz's mama

Wow, just wow. Let's try and maintain some maturity here people!


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## JDK

SeaMonster said:


> Is that really a good idea? Puppy gets used to u being home all the time and then all of a sudden u r back to work


You're right, that wouldn't be good and I'm sure the puppy would be lost if that were to happen. Good thing I know enough not to smother the dog while I'm home and to teach him how to be alone :


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## jackie_hubert

I'm amazed by those people who have the energy to come home after a full day of and spent quality time with a dog - I must be getting old. Lol. 

Let's see, I come home at 5:45, feed the cat and dog and make and eat dinner till 7, feed and play with the cat until 7:30, go for a walk and play with the dog until 9:30, do some training till 10pm, make lunch for next day till 10:15, try to fit in an hour of tracking a couple of days since most weekends have too much foot traffic...WHEN WOULD I HAVE TIME TO COME ON GRF??? LOL


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## aerolor

Sweet Girl said:


> But is IS the opinion of some people here. My dog may be _able_ to go 12 hours without going out - but I won't do that to her because it's not good for her health, it's uncomfortable for her, and frankly, I think it's cruel. She's entitled to a better life that that.
> 
> Why get a dog if it's just going to be cooped up all day? (Whether for 8 hours, 10, or 12)? Dogs aren't weekend toys.
> 
> And this isn't me being defensive; this is simply me stating my opinion. Which is what the OP came here looking for - opinions and advice. Many here may disagree with me. But if people don't like someone's opinion and advice, it's too easy to say that person is being judgemental. Really, they just disagree.


There is no way I would disagree with you - I think you are 100% spot on and your feelings are exactly how I feel about leaving a puppy crated and alone all day. Is not judgemental - it is an opinion of what is acceptable and what is not.


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## Usha Maceio Brazil

Dear JDK

I feel so much for what you are going through. In your case, toilet training is the minor problem, there are solutions for that. However, just like kids, the "tale' of quality time is not so true. Just like kids dogs need quantity as well. Also, there is the problem that dogs hate to be alone.


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## DaniK

Good on you for asking the advice of members here, all of whom have great experience with GR's.
As a relatively new owner myself, I have limited advice. I only work out of the house for 2 days a week but I'm already worrying about how we'll cope in September once 17 yr old daughter goes back to college, as she takes on dog duties when I work. 
When we had our first dogs, a westie and westie x scottie, I worked fulltime and it was hard. But we had a utility room with a dog flap, a great back yard and took them out evenings and weekends. We were lucky that they were quite lazy dogs too, content to be in their bed all day (this was 10 yrs ago, before crates really hit the UK). 
Now our westie has died and we have Bertie (GR, 13 wk old pup) and Mollie (10 yr cross). Wow, whole different ball game with Bertie. He definitely needs more attention, walking, playing, being with. He wants human company, even though he has Mollie.
I'm going to get a dog-walker for the 2 days that I have to work from September. He's pretty good in his crate overnight but doesn't like it in the day and we rarely put him in it in the day. His toilet training is about 95% sorted but if he has a wee in the kitchen, it doesn't really matter as its wood floor which we can easily wipe. 
I think that by the time Sept comes, I'll see how good he is out of his crate in the day and judge whether I can leave him out when I'm at work (still with the dog walker coming in around lunchtime). 
It is really hard work having a pup....early morning wakings, even in the night and if you work fulltime, it can just wear you out. 
Having the time off at the beginning is brill and you'd spend that time getting the dog into a routine....a routine that doesn't vary whether you're home or not, I guess. It's worth having the time to get the toilet training sorted but remember, an 8 week old pup has a teeny bladder and won't hold that long. 
We also looked at rescue dogs before we got Bertie but most around where we live, were Staffordshire bull terriers or crosses of the same breed which I wasn't keen on. If I could have found a lab or retriever rescue dog, I would have gone for it but they're snapped up as they come in, due to their good nature. 
I think a little puppy is going to be too much if you can't get dog walkers in during the day. GR's are terribly social animals and need that companionship. 
Another thought...are you or your girlfriend able to stagger your working hours at all? Maybe do split shifts so you're home in the afternoon then you go back to work for a few hours in the evening once your girlfriend is back? Just an idea...I work at a hospital and we have several staff doing split-shifts to accomodate childcare and dogs. Or, ditch your job and become a dogwalker....seems highly paid in your area


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## Shalva

I am always somewhat amused by folks who ask for people opinions but then discount them and make it clear that they really didn't want that opinion anyway.... 

I personally dont think you should get a puppy at this point... if money is that tight where you can't afford for someone to come in during the day to take the pup out or send the pup to daycare then honestly I don't think that you can afford a pup. 

When is a pup ready to be left home for 12 hours a day??? I agree with the others NEVER.... well not unless you want Urinary Tract infections and other health issues and how is that fair to the pup... not to mention that really young puppies should eat 3x/day
and have access to water which is only going to increase the peeing.... 

and you are right even 5.5 hours at a young age is a long time for a puppy.... 

but then again that is just this responsible breeders opinion.... and to be frank... I probably wouldn't have been willing to sell you a puppy to begin with.


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## Pawz's mama

Shalva said:


> I am always somewhat amused by folks who ask for people opinions but then discount them and make it clear that they really didn't want that opinion anyway....
> 
> I personally dont think you should get a puppy at this point... if money is that tight where you can't afford for someone to come in during the day to take the pup out or send the pup to daycare then honestly I don't think that you can afford a pup.
> 
> When is a pup ready to be left home for 12 hours a day??? I agree with the others NEVER.... well not unless you want Urinary Tract infections and other health issues and how is that fair to the pup... not to mention that really young puppies should eat 3x/day
> and have access to water which is only going to increase the peeing....
> 
> and you are right even 5.5 hours at a young age is a long time for a puppy....
> 
> but then again that is just this responsible breeders opinion.... and to be frank... I probably wouldn't have been willing to sell you a puppy to begin with.


 If you had taken the time to read ALL of his posts, you would have noticed that he said he would be willing to have someone come in during the day, but is just looking for something decently priced. Do you know his personal finances????? No you sure don't, so I don't think you should be telling him he can't afford a puppy. Based on the response you gave him, I wouldn't BUY a puppy from someone with such a rude manner such as yourself. Lot's of people work, and still have pets. Get a grip on reality!


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## baileyboym22

Wow~
At this point, I'm going to make a choice and stop following this thread and give some extra love and responsibility to my puppy Bello~~


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## Deb_Bayne

baileyboym22 said:


> Wow~
> At this point, I'm going to make a choice and stop following this thread and give some extra love and responsibility to my puppy _____(insert name here)~~


me too.....







ooops, need more training :wavey:


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## mylspen

When I got my puppy at 8 weeks, I got up in the morning and dropped him off at my moms. I had a crate and she had a crate. After work pick him up. We both had our crates very near the 'go out" door for easy training. In about a month or so I had a potty trained dog. He did learn at my parents before our house though. We now keep him in the kitchen and he uses his remote doggie door and I never have to be bothered to let him out, he goes all by himself.


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## Sweet Girl

I think Shalva has a really good point, though. People come here asking for opinions and advice - but it often becomes clear they already have made up their minds, and if anyone says something that goes against that decision, there are excuses made or there is anger or the responder is called judgemental. 

It's unfortunate because members here have centuries of Golden experience when you add us all up. We may know a thing or two. The OP may have already decided that a puppy being in a house alone for 8-10 hours a day alone ISN'T the same as being "cooped up all day" because, hey, it's only 1/3 of the day. Well, okay. I respectfully disagree. But he doesn't want to hear from those of us who would never leave our adult dogs alone that long, let alone a puppy. He doesn't want to know about anxiety, or UTIs, or boredom, or how not enough exercise can lead to misbehavior. It confuses me because they come here saying they want opinions and advice.

I'm not judging someone when I say, based on what you've told me, and based on MY experience raising a puppy, it doesn't sound like the right time for you to bring a puppy into your home. Shalva isn't judging someone when she questions whether someone knows the financial cost of having a dog, especially in the first year. And at the end of the day, I think it's pretty fair to say that everyone here is thinking in the best interest of the dog.


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## Mirinde

Sweet Girl said:


> I think Shalva has a really good point, though. People come here asking for opinions and advice - but it often becomes clear they already have made up their minds, and if anyone says something that goes against that decision, there are excuses made or there is anger or the responder is called judgemental.
> 
> It's unfortunate because members here have centuries of Golden experience when you add us all up. We may know a thing or two. The OP may have already decided that a puppy being in a house alone for 8-10 hours a day alone ISN'T the same as being "cooped up all day" because, hey, it's only 1/3 of the day. Well, okay. I respectfully disagree. But he doesn't want to hear from those of us who would never leave our adult dogs alone that long, let alone a puppy. He doesn't want to know about anxiety, or UTIs, or boredom, or how not enough exercise can lead to misbehavior. It confuses me because they come here saying they want opinions and advice.
> 
> I'm not judging someone when I say, based on what you've told me, and based on MY experience raising a puppy, it doesn't sound like the right time for you to bring a puppy into your home. Shalva isn't judging someone when she questions whether someone knows the financial cost of having a dog, especially in the first year. And at the end of the day, I think it's pretty fair to say that everyone here is thinking in the best interest of the dog.


I was going to stay out of the rest of this thread, but apparently I missed something haha. Where did the OP say he was going to go ahead and get a puppy anyway? People keep jumping on him for ignoring the advice/being defensive but I haven't seen that at all? Unless I have blinders on, all I've seen is a guy genuinely trying to do the right thing and is willing to take a $300 loss to let his puppy go to better home. He's allowed to ask if there's other options though... With these centuries of experience, maybe he just thought we might have some sort of clever, creative alternative? 

This thread has made me kind of disappointed in people here... not because of the advice given (which is truly valuable, overall correct advice), but because people seem to have gotten so "passionate" about Golden's that you're misreading someone just trying to find some better ideas. It's great that we all love our dogs and want what's best for them but people and their intentions matter too. =( I also don't think it's fair to say that just because the OP can't afford the absurdly high costs of dog walkers/daycares in his area... he shouldn't get a dog at all. For the vast majority of people, dog walkers and daycares are not a common occurrence and are not factored into the overall cost of owning a dog and they make due in other ways (family members, friends, college kids, etc.). Are all those people then not supposed to have dogs? 

If I missed something that the OP said that was totally out of line, I apologize... I just felt uncomfortable sitting back when I don't see that the OP said or asked anything totally unreasonable.


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## Shalva

Pawz's mama said:


> If you had taken the time to read ALL of his posts, you would have noticed that he said he would be willing to have someone come in during the day, but is just looking for something decently priced. Do you know his personal finances????? No you sure don't, so I don't think you should be telling him he can't afford a puppy. Based on the response you gave him, I wouldn't BUY a puppy from someone with such a rude manner such as yourself. Lot's of people work, and still have pets. Get a grip on reality!


Well thankfully that wouldn't be a problem that you wouldn't buy a pup from me... honestly do you think I care... because if you think that what he is suggesting and his comments are appropriate and ok for the pup then that says alot about what you feel is appropriate care.... and your thinking I am mean just makes me so sad. 

However, I did read his posts.... every last one of them dear... from the one at the beginning where he himself suggests that the timing might now be right for him to get a pup... to the ones that say he might be able to come home for a few minutes at lunch.... all the way to the end and the last ones that suggest that its not honest that a dog can't stay all day without going out... would you like a running synopsis of them all???? 

so he is looking for the most decently priced... well that just makes him someone that is willing to sacrifice his pups health and wellbeing for a couple bucks and honestly that makes it even worse... before he was just someone who couldn't afford it.... now thanks to your estimation he is someone that could but doesn't want to and lets see the last few posts IF YOU READ THEM asked when dog could stay alone all day long.... so before he couldn't afford it now he is just cheap... 

I don't care about his personal finances... I care about the care of his pup... there is nothing wrong with working full time... there is something wrong with getting a pup and either being unable or unwilling to make arrangements for that pup during the day.... while you can't be there.... 

Every one of my 9 dogs went to daycare until they were old enough to manage my relatively short days.... yesterday my husband were gone for the day and out petsitter came in three times to let the dogs out... not only is daycare good socialization but it takes care of the housebreaking issues... 

however, now that I think more about this... why get a dog anyway??? if you work long days... and aren't going to be home to spend time with the dog then whats the point... .

see I am not of the opinion that everyone needs a dog... yes they are wonderful and yes I love mine.. but its the same as a kid... why does everyone need one.... when you aren't going to be able to provide appropriately for the dog then what is the point.


----------



## aerolor

*Taken from Shalva's post*

_"however, now that I think more about this... why get a dog anyway??? if you work long days... and aren't going to be home to spend time with the dog then whats the point... .

see I am not of the opinion that everyone needs a dog... yes they are wonderful and yes I love mine.. but its the same as a kid... why does everyone need one.... when you aren't going to be able to provide appropriately for the dog then what is the point" _

I totally agree with you Shalva - straight talking and well put. :dblthumb2


----------



## Jax's Mom

I have come in late in this thread and have read through it to the best of my ability. I dont think 7:30 - 4:00 pm is a long day. It certainly isnt 12 hours. I do think that an 8 week old puppy would be dificult, due to potty training. A pup that age would need to go out much more than 1X a day. HOWEVER, if the OP is planning on getting a dog walker 1X a day with a 5 month old, that makes things possible IMO. I dont see the OP being defensive, or "all over the place". I see his responses to quite open minded and tolerant of many types of comments. I wish him luck in finding an older pup. BTW, if he is NYC (which it seems), the thought that a Golden rescue would give him a youngish dog is pretty much out of the question. I tried it, and we had someone home ALL day. I dont live in NYC (Manhattan), but live in a suburb (Queens), and we do not have hugh yards. We were not turned down, but they felt they had no dogs that "fit", since we made it clear we wanted a younger dog.


----------



## Pawz's mama

Mirinde said:


> I was going to stay out of the rest of this thread, but apparently I missed something haha. Where did the OP say he was going to go ahead and get a puppy anyway? People keep jumping on him for ignoring the advice/being defensive but I haven't seen that at all? Unless I have blinders on, all I've seen is a guy genuinely trying to do the right thing and is willing to take a $300 loss to let his puppy go to better home. He's allowed to ask if there's other options though... With these centuries of experience, maybe he just thought we might have some sort of clever, creative alternative?
> 
> This thread has made me kind of disappointed in people here... not because of the advice given (which is truly valuable, overall correct advice), but because people seem to have gotten so "passionate" about Golden's that you're misreading someone just trying to find some better ideas. It's great that we all love our dogs and want what's best for them but people and their intentions matter too. =( I also don't think it's fair to say that just because the OP can't afford the absurdly high costs of dog walkers/daycares in his area... he shouldn't get a dog at all. For the vast majority of people, dog walkers and daycares are not a common occurrence and are not factored into the overall cost of owning a dog and they make due in other ways (family members, friends, college kids, etc.). Are all those people then not supposed to have dogs?
> 
> If I missed something that the OP said that was totally out of line, I apologize... I just felt uncomfortable sitting back when I don't see that the OP said or asked anything totally unreasonable.


 I couldn't agree with you more! The poster was more than reasonable in my opinion.


----------



## Pawz's mama

Shalva said:


> Well thankfully that wouldn't be a problem that you wouldn't buy a pup from me... honestly do you think I care... because if you think that what he is suggesting and his comments are appropriate and ok for the pup then that says alot about what you feel is appropriate care.... and your thinking I am mean just makes me so sad.
> 
> However, I did read his posts.... every last one of them dear... from the one at the beginning where he himself suggests that the timing might now be right for him to get a pup... to the ones that say he might be able to come home for a few minutes at lunch.... all the way to the end and the last ones that suggest that its not honest that a dog can't stay all day without going out... would you like a running synopsis of them all????
> 
> so he is looking for the most decently priced... well that just makes him someone that is willing to sacrifice his pups health and wellbeing for a couple bucks and honestly that makes it even worse... before he was just someone who couldn't afford it.... now thanks to your estimation he is someone that could but doesn't want to and lets see the last few posts IF YOU READ THEM asked when dog could stay alone all day long.... so before he couldn't afford it now he is just cheap...
> 
> I don't care about his personal finances... I care about the care of his pup... there is nothing wrong with working full time... there is something wrong with getting a pup and either being unable or unwilling to make arrangements for that pup during the day.... while you can't be there....
> 
> Every one of my 9 dogs went to daycare until they were old enough to manage my relatively short days.... yesterday my husband were gone for the day and out petsitter came in three times to let the dogs out... not only is daycare good socialization but it takes care of the housebreaking issues...
> 
> however, now that I think more about this... why get a dog anyway??? if you work long days... and aren't going to be home to spend time with the dog then whats the point... .
> 
> see I am not of the opinion that everyone needs a dog... yes they are wonderful and yes I love mine.. but its the same as a kid... why does everyone need one.... when you aren't going to be able to provide appropriately for the dog then what is the point.


 I'm actually laughing right now :bowl: You are just the kind of person that won't listen to reason, so I'm not going to even waste my time arguing with you because I do have better things to do. However, before I go I will say two things: My dog is VERY well taken care of, and the original poster has shown concern for the well being of his future animal, which is unfortunately more than I can say for A LOT of people, which is why the shelter's are always flooded with unwanted dog's! :wavey:


----------



## aerolor

I think the nub of all this is that although the OP really does want a dog and I think he could be a good owner, I think, at the moment, he does not actually have the time to be able to give a pup or a young dog what it needs to have a satisfactory upbringing so that it will become a well-adapted adult and a pleasure to have around. He is exploring all avenues of how he might be able to do it and make a good job of it, but I think he knows, deep down, that there are too many problems and it won't work well unless he can be around a lot more. If it were me I would not be happy to have to have someone else take care of my dog for me for a large part of its day - I wan't to spend time with my dog, do things with it and enjoy having it around.


----------



## JDK

Shalva said:


> I am always somewhat amused by folks who ask for people opinions but then discount them and make it clear that they really didn't want that opinion anyway....
> 
> I personally dont think you should get a puppy at this point... if money is that tight where you can't afford for someone to come in during the day to take the pup out or send the pup to daycare then honestly I don't think that you can afford a pup.
> 
> When is a pup ready to be left home for 12 hours a day??? I agree with the others NEVER.... well not unless you want Urinary Tract infections and other health issues and how is that fair to the pup... not to mention that really young puppies should eat 3x/day and have access to water which is only going to increase the peeing....


Not quite sure where you got 12 hours from. 12 hours was never mentioned, at least not by me. If you've been following along, you would have seen me say that I'll be able to stay home with the dog for 3 weeks to start the housebreaking and will be able to get home for lunch to walk him. On top of that, I'm working on trying to get a reasonably priced dog walker. 

On the whole money situation. Personally, I don't think you should be telling anybody what they can and can't afford. Watch your own wallet, not others. With that being said, I'm not new to dogs. I have taken into account the costs that come with a puppy and a dog in general (food, vets costs, ect). So yes, I can afford a dog. I just can't afford to much beyond for say a dog walker.



Sweet Girl said:


> It's unfortunate because members here have centuries of Golden experience when you add us all up. We may know a thing or two. The OP may have already decided that a puppy being in a house alone for 8-10 hours a day alone ISN'T the same as being "cooped up all day" because, hey, it's only 1/3 of the day. Well, okay. I respectfully disagree. But he doesn't want to hear from those of us who would never leave our adult dogs alone that long, let alone a puppy. He doesn't want to know about anxiety, or UTIs, or boredom, or how not enough exercise can lead to misbehavior. It confuses me because they come here saying they want opinions and advice.
> 
> I'm not judging someone when I say, based on what you've told me, and based on MY experience raising a puppy, it doesn't sound like the right time for you to bring a puppy into your home. Shalva isn't judging someone when she questions whether someone knows the financial cost of having a dog, especially in the first year. And at the end of the day, I think it's pretty fair to say that everyone here is thinking in the best interest of the dog.


Once again, I'm not new to dogs. It's rather funny you think I don't know anything about anxiety and UTI's and etc when I've said numerous times that I've owned dogs for several years. Did you catch the part when I said I had a Chow that lived to be 21? I guess I had a 21yr old dog cause I don't know how to take care of them, right? Did I mention that none of my dogs have ever had a disease either? 

Anyway. The thing about whether or not a dog will ever be able to hold it for an 8hr period will always be debatable and something people will never agree on. Some people give these animals less credit then they deserve though, that's for sure. Train them right, put them on your schedule, and once they grow up they know enough not to eat and drink themselves full when they know they won't be able to go out. At least my dogs did. Maybe mine were just smarter then golden's, I dunno.




Shalva said:


> Well thankfully that wouldn't be a problem that you wouldn't buy a pup from me... honestly do you think I care... because if you think that what he is suggesting and his comments are appropriate and ok for the pup then that says alot about what you feel is appropriate care.... and your thinking I am mean just makes me so sad.
> 
> However, I did read his posts.... every last one of them dear... from the one at the beginning where he himself suggests that the timing might now be right for him to get a pup... to the ones that say he might be able to come home for a few minutes at lunch.... all the way to the end and the last ones that suggest that its not honest that a dog can't stay all day without going out... would you like a running synopsis of them all????
> 
> so he is looking for the most decently priced... well that just makes him someone that is willing to sacrifice his pups health and wellbeing for a couple bucks and honestly that makes it even worse... before he was just someone who couldn't afford it.... now thanks to your estimation he is someone that could but doesn't want to and lets see the last few posts IF YOU READ THEM asked when dog could stay alone all day long.... so before he couldn't afford it now he is just cheap...
> 
> I don't care about his personal finances... I care about the care of his pup... there is nothing wrong with working full time... there is something wrong with getting a pup and either being unable or unwilling to make arrangements for that pup during the day.... while you can't be there....
> 
> Every one of my 9 dogs went to daycare until they were old enough to manage my relatively short days.... yesterday my husband were gone for the day and out petsitter came in three times to let the dogs out... not only is daycare good socialization but it takes care of the housebreaking issues...
> 
> however, now that I think more about this... why get a dog anyway??? if you work long days... and aren't going to be home to spend time with the dog then whats the point... .
> 
> see I am not of the opinion that everyone needs a dog... yes they are wonderful and yes I love mine.. but its the same as a kid... why does everyone need one.... when you aren't going to be able to provide appropriately for the dog then what is the point.


Now I got people calling me cheap? Haha

When did I ever say that if I could afford a dog walker I wouldn't get one just cause I don't want to pay for it? Quote me on that one, please.

Am I looking for a relatively cheap, dog walker? Sure. Why pay $45 when there's people out there who are just as good if not better that'll do it for half the price. You make call it being cheap, but I call it being smart. If you're paying more than somebody else for a service that provides the same exact quality as the cheaper service and you insist to pay for the service that cost more, you either really like the person or you're just dumb. Sorry, but the truth is the truth.


----------



## JDK

Glad to see there's sensible people here who see where I'm coming from and understand that I'm willing to drop this all if I can't come up with a plan, and that this whole thread is about what those plans could be and whether or not I'm able to make them happen.

Plan your work, work your plan. If there's no plan to work, there's no dog. Its as simple as that.


----------



## Sweet Girl

JDK said:


> The thing about whether or not a dog will ever be able to hold it for an 8hr period will always be debatable and something people will never agree on. Some people give these animals less credit then they deserve though, that's for sure. Train them right, put them on your schedule, and* once they grow up they know enough not to eat and drink themselves full when they know they won't be able to go out.* At least my dogs did. Maybe mine were just smarter then golden's, I dunno.


Alrighty then! I think I'm ready to bow out of this one, because there is just no sensible way to counter that.

:wavey:


----------



## JDK

Sweet Girl said:


> Alrighty then! I think I'm ready to bow out of this one, because there is just no sensible way to counter that.
> 
> :wavey:


Here's a question for the road.

When you know you won't be able to go to the bathroom for an extended amount of time, do you drink yourself and eat yourself silly?


----------



## Jax's Mom

All 3 of my dogs are home alone 4 days a week from roughly 7:30am til anywhere from 1:30 - 3:30pm. They are just fine...and we leave them water. When we are home they go out more frequently of course. I am quite quite sure there is a LARGE amount of good dog owners who have dogs on this or a similar schedule. If dogs only went to homes where there was a stay at home person, there would be very few dog owners. Most households have 2 working adults now a days and to expect a person to stay at home for his dog seems over the top. I stressssss....this is my opinion, I am quite sure you will find other opnions on here.

Adding...my dogs are 2 1/2, 2, and just over 1. They have been on this schedule since my hubby went back to work when the youngest was about 7-8 months old.


----------



## Deb_Bayne

Sweet Girl said:


> Alrighty then! I think I'm ready to bow out of this one, because there is just no sensible way to counter that.
> 
> :wavey:


I agree, I've had dogs all my life and they never appeared to 'calculate' how much to drink based on when they are going outside.... yup.. time to bow out of this one too. I think the OP is just having fun getting everyone's goat.


----------



## HiTideGoldens

JDK said:


> Here's a question for the road.
> 
> When you know you won't be able to go to the bathroom for an extended amount of time, do you drink yourself and eat yourself silly?


I also know how to drive a car, cook a steak and resist eating rabbit poop off our lawn. Can my dogs do those things? Nope. Not exactly the best logic, my friend.


----------



## JDK

goldenjackpuppy said:


> I also know how to drive a car, cook a steak and resist eating rabbit poop off our lawn. Can my dogs do those things? Nope. Not exactly the best logic, my friend.


I don't think anybody's trying to teach their dog to do any of things, since it's impossible for the animals to do so. Learning to hold their peep and adapting to a schedule is something you can teach them and something can learn.


----------



## aerolor

Deb_Bayne said:


> I agree, I've had dogs all my life and they never appeared to 'calculate' how much to drink based on when they are going outside.... yup.. time to bow out of this one too. I think the OP is just having fun getting everyone's goat.


Ditto.. 

:jester:


----------



## HiTideGoldens

JDK said:


> I don't think anybody's trying to teach their dog to do any of things, since it's impossible for the animals to do so. Learning to hold their peep and adapting to a schedule is something you can teach them and something can learn.


A schedule, yes. Suggesting that you can teach them to logically avoid drinking and eating because they "know" you won't be home is just ridiculous. Do you also teach your dogs how to read a calendar so that they know they can eat and drink during the day on weekends when you're home? I assume they also understand the concepts of holidays and PTO so they can schedule their eating and drinking accordingly.


----------



## JDK

Deb_Bayne said:


> I agree, I've had dogs all my life and they never appeared to 'calculate' how much to drink based on when they are going outside.... yup.. time to bow out of this one too. I think the OP is just having fun getting everyone's goat.


More than likely, your dog was never able to calculate how much to drink cause you never thought him how to wait, and that there's a schedule for him to follow.


----------



## JDK

goldenjackpuppy said:


> A schedule, yes. Suggesting that you can teach them to logically avoid drinking and eating because they "know" you won't be home is just ridiculous. Do you also teach your dogs how to read a calendar so that they know they can eat and drink during the day on weekends when you're home? I assume they also understand the concepts of holidays and PTO so they can schedule their eating and drinking accordingly.


Look the word "training" up, let me know what it says.

Training means to teach, my friend. So yes, you can teach/train (whichever word you prefer) a dog to go on schedule.


----------



## HiTideGoldens

JDK said:


> More than likely, your dog was never able to calculate how much to drink cause you never thought him how to wait, and that there's a schedule for him to follow.





JDK said:


> So yes, you can teach/train/whichever-word-you-prefer a dog to go on schedule.


LOL. Good luck with that. I'd love to see a video of your puppy calculating his water intake for the day in accordance with your daily schedule. 

Way to make a great first impression on the board, by the way.


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## kwhit

goldenjackpuppy said:


> I'd love to see a video of your puppy calculating his water intake for the day in accordance with your daily schedule.


Just got a mental image of a dog sitting next to it's water bowl with measuring cups scattered all over and holding a calculator in it's paw.


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## BajaOklahoma

Wow. This thread has taken a turn for the worse.
Hopefully you are all just affected by the heat.


----------



## JDK

goldenjackpuppy said:


> LOL. Good luck with that. I'd love to see a video of your puppy calculating his water intake for the day in accordance with your daily schedule.
> 
> Way to make a great first impression on the board, by the way.


Not quite sure how that can be shown in a video. Just picture it. It's rather simple. The dog would be drinking limited water and sleeping in his bed for 7 of those 8 hrs, waiting for me to get home to play.

Dogs can learn a schedule, which includes a bathroom schedule. Dogs can learn any daily routine. My dogs use to know what time I came home. Could they look at the cable box and tell time? Of course not. Like people though, they have an internal clock. They learned my schedule. They would wait by that door for me, waiting to greet me as I walked in the door. Even times when I was on vacation, my parents would tell me my dogs would sit there and wait cause they were use to me walking in the door at 4pm.

Like I said, some people obviously just don't give these animals enough credit.


----------



## Blondie

I understand first hand the passion that goes into puppyhood from the actual search for a breeder to the arrival of your new puppy. I look at most every detailed scenario as possible. Being a nurse, I turned my world upside down for the love of Maggie. I worked nights and DH always had a normal Monday - Friday 9-5 job. I have two kids as well. Am I and have I suffered sleep deprivation? On occassion. All for the love of Maggie. Her needs were met, house trained without a hitch in the freezing frigid winter of New England. I was determined to make it work. I have made MANY sacrifices and have gone without fancy things and don't bother with "keeping up with the Jone's." All for the love of Maggie. She brings me constant joy. Nothing could be better. It's all worth it. Puppyhood is hard work and while I do agree that perhaps an older dog would be best for your situation, have you looked at other options for dog ownership? On Craigslist I see so many of the same words being used, "need to rehome my golden retriever, we no longer have the TIME we need to take care of him/her." They all say the same thing for a small rehoming fee. Not sure where you are from. It will take some planning and preparation and a lot of wherewithal to make it work. Weigh the pros and cons of each situation. Puppyhood comes with alot of frustration, amongst all of that cuteness, by the way. Are you familiar with the term "landshark?"


----------



## JDK

Blondie said:


> I understand first hand the passion that goes into puppyhood from the actual search for a breeder to the arrival of your new puppy. I look at most every detailed scenario as possible. Being a nurse, I turned my world upside down for the love of Maggie. I worked nights and DH always had a normal Monday - Friday 9-5 job. I have two kids as well. Am I and have I suffered sleep deprivation? On occassion. All for the love of Maggie. Her needs were met, house trained without a hitch in the freezing frigid winter of New England. I was determined to make it work. I have made MANY sacrifices and have gone without fancy things and don't bother with "keeping up with the Jone's." All for the love of Maggie. She brings me constant joy. Nothing could be better. It's all worth it. Puppyhood is hard work and while I do agree that perhaps an older dog would be best for your situation, have you looked at other options for dog ownership? On Craigslist I see so many of the same words being used, "need to rehome my golden retriever, we no longer have the TIME we need to take care of him/her." They all say the same thing for a small rehoming fee. Not sure where you are from. It will take some planning and preparation and a lot of wherewithal to make it work. Weigh the pros and cons of each situation. Puppyhood comes with alot of frustration, amongst all of that cuteness, by the way. Are you familiar with the term "landshark?"


Well familiar with the term landshark. My ferrets are some of the biggest ones I've ever met!!


----------



## HiTideGoldens

JDK said:


> Like I said, some people obviously just don't give these animals enough credit.


No, I do. I said a few posts up that I agree dogs can be on a schedule. Mine certainly are. That's why they wake me up at 5:45 whether it's a Tuesday or a Saturday. What I don't agree with is your statement that dogs will regulate their food and water intake based on your schedule. It's just simply not true.

But, like I said, good luck with that. :wavey:


----------



## JDK

goldenjackpuppy said:


> No, I do. I said a few posts up that I agree dogs can be on a schedule. Mine certainly are. That's why they wake me up at 5:45 whether it's a Tuesday or a Saturday. What I don't agree with is your statement that dogs will regulate their food and water intake based on your schedule. It's just simply not true.
> 
> But, like I said, good luck with that. :wavey:


Thanks. I've already had much luck with it over the years with several dogs 

Dogs use to be left home for 8hr stints without a problem. Left with food and water all day too, and a ton of treats. Whether or not the fact that I took my dogs out 3 times to play before work had anything to do with it, I dunno. But I can tell you first hand a dog learning how to regulate his intake based on when he goes out is possible since I put my dogs in that position and never came home to a mess.


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## Sally's Mom

I think my dogs know days of the week. Seriously, when I used to work Sunday thru Weds, my dogs knew when it was Sunday. My boss did not love me bringing the dogs to work, but somehow by my mannerisms or what ever, when it was Sunday, they would all try to come with me(because my boss wasn't there on Sundays). They never tried any other day of the week. And now, if I bring dogs to work in the AM, it is either a Monday or Weds. They don't try to come on Tues or Thurs. i'm sure there is some signal(and it's not, let's go guys) that they read to know they can come.... But they definitely do not change water intake based on the day of the week!!


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## Jax's Mom

JDK...I sent you a PM. Might be an option for you....GOOD LUCK!!!


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## JDK

Jax's Mom said:


> JDK...I sent you a PM. Might be an option for you....GOOD LUCK!!!


Thanks, I'll check it out.


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## Deb_Bayne

> *I've had plenty of dogs before. Actually, I had to put my Chow to sleep about a year ago. He was 21 at the time. So I'm well aware of the responsibility that comes with a dog. Granted, we got all our dogs when I was younger, meaning my parents took care of them as pups until they were housebroken then I took over.*


If you have had plenty of dogs before including the 21 yr old and you're only 28, and your parents did all the raising and housebreaking then why are you here? Get your parents to housebreak and then take over and put them on their schedules, ebay has some great calculators with huge keypads for their paws to punch the numbers out.


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## JDK

Deb_Bayne said:


> If you have had plenty of dogs before including the 21 yr old and you're only 28, and your parents did all the raising and housebreaking then why are you here? Get your parents to housebreak and then take over and put them on their schedules, ebay has some great calculators with huge keypads for their paws to punch the numbers out.


Apparently you missed the part where I said my parents aren't around to take care of the dog. Learn to read before you judge. With that being said, I don't depend on my parents to do everything for me, sorry.


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## Deb_Bayne

Not a judgement... and if you are insinuating that I have my parents take care of everything for me... sorry they are both passed for many years now, I'm on my own to take care of mine, which I do. 

I went back and read your posts and yes, you are all over the place in this thread. Like in a prior post along with a couple of other members... I'm done here. Good luck in your search and HIGH EXPECTATIONS of your dog maintaining his own schedule although I fail to see when you are going to have the time to implement and train him to adhere to that schedule. I really feel for the animal you are bringing into your limited space and time.


----------



## mylissyk

JDK said:


> Not quite sure how that can be shown in a video. Just picture it. It's rather simple. The dog would be drinking limited water and sleeping in his bed for 7 of those 8 hrs, waiting for me to get home to play....QUOTE]
> 
> Well, that's true! I'm home most days and my dogs sleep 8 to 10 hours of the day!
> 
> I don't know if they could actually figure out they need to limit their water though, that's pretty advanced for a dog's brain, lol. They may learn routine, sleep most of the day, wake up eat drink late in the day, my person will be home in a little while.


----------



## JDK

mylissyk said:


> JDK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite sure how that can be shown in a video. Just picture it. It's rather simple. The dog would be drinking limited water and sleeping in his bed for 7 of those 8 hrs, waiting for me to get home to play....QUOTE]
> 
> Well, that's true! I'm home most days and my dogs sleep 8 to 10 hours of the day!
> 
> I don't know if they could actually figure out they need to limit their water though, that's pretty advanced for a dog's brain, lol. They may learn routine, sleep most of the day, wake up eat drink late in the day, my person will be home in a little while.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't underestimate a dog and its intelligence (They can sniff drugs/beg bugs, find missing people by nothing more than a scent from an article of clothing and etc etc). Dogs are highly intelligent, especially when they're trained right.
> 
> The only reason people think it can't be done (dog home for 8hrs) is cause they have never put the animal in a position to find out, either cause they felt it was cruel or cause they're lucky enough to be able to stay home with their dog. Those of who can't stay home with our animals and have had more than just puppies (read: dogs into their adult years), know that once our dogs are of age and have been housebroken and trained that they'll be fine by themselves.
> 
> You're right though, they learn your routine and adapt to it.
Click to expand...


----------



## JDK

Deb_Bayne said:


> Not a judgement... and if you are insinuating that I have my parents take care of everything for me... sorry they are both passed for many years now, I'm on my own to take care of mine, which I do.
> 
> I went back and read your posts and yes, you are all over the place in this thread. Like in a prior post along with a couple of other members... I'm done here. Good luck in your search and HIGH EXPECTATIONS of your dog maintaining his own schedule although I fail to see when you are going to have the time to implement and train him to adhere to that schedule. I really feel for the animal you are bringing into your limited space and time.


My limited space? Space was never mentioned. All's I said was I couldn't set something up to let the dog outside on his own, which is cause a septic system in my back yard and the leech fields don't allow me any room to put up a fence. You can't put fence posts in your leech field. So space really has nothing to do with it and never has. Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions.

Edit: Wasn't implying you have your parents do anything for you. Just saying at 28yrs old, I don't expect my parents to do things for me. Aside from that, they're not around either, as mentioned earlier.


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## paula bedard

I've just reread this thread. I got the very distinct impression yesterday that I was watching someone play 'whack-a-mole-. Each time a suggestion was offered it was banged back down. I thought maybe it was just me and the mood I was in yesterday (what would have been my Sam's 17th birthday) so thought I'd visit it again today and see if I was wrong. Nope. 

I bet you love a good debate and will play devil's advocate just to keep it going.


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## momtoMax

I'm confused, I'm sorry but I'm not going to blow my time rereading this whole thread - How did we get from going home at lunch at least to let the pup out to potty and out of the crate to assuming that pup, from what I read anyways, can be regulated to 8 hours in a crate by him or herself and saying something like you've had a great many dogs and did that with them. I am 34 years old and I have had only 2 dogs in my grown up life and neither of them I would have put in a crate for 8 hours as a pup and thought it was a great way and kind way to go. Also, I don't get how at 28, you've had a great many dogs unless you are a throwaway owner? I did read the post about the 2 rescues you didn't like. Did you give them away because they weren't so great around other people even though they obviously loved you? Are they still with you? 
I've read a great many long threads and usually the posts seem to go together. I'm completely thrown off and confused about what completely different attitudes I'm getting from this.


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## paula bedard

momtoMax said:


> I'm confused, ....
> I've read a great many long threads and usually the posts seem to go together. I'm completely thrown off and confused about what completely different attitudes I'm getting from this.


I think the OP is having fun with this, hence the differing/conflicting posts. 
This guy reminds me of my ex bil...there's a reason he's an ex.


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## Serawyn

Dear all, 

I hate to admit it, but I've been following this ridiculous thread. I myself am a new member and have been trying to learn as much as I can about goldens. I find this forum to be incredibly helpful. Many people on her are kind and generous with their ideas/advices. 

Then along the way, there is someone like JDK. At first, I thought he sincerely wanted help and was just knocking down suggestions because he's trying to play devil's advocate; it's okay to question things if it means you're just trying to do what is best for the dog. However, in reading his slew of conflicting answers and questions, I think he just likes to "stir" it up a bit. I get the feeling he's sitting at his computer just laughing at everyone's responses. 

How dare we suggest his dog can't regulate water and food intake? He's had good experiences with his other dogs, therefore, why would this puppy be any different? How dare we suggest that he may not financially be able to care for this puppy when in his first post, he actually said he can't. He even said, *"Dog walkers and doggie daycares are extremely expensive in my area and not something I can afford at this point in time. So even though they're available in the area, they're not an option right now."*

So, I think it's time I stop following this post because I will just give this poster a reason to knock me down into my mole hole again. (Paula beDard, I love your whack-a-mole reference because that's how I feel about this post too!)

JDK, I bet you'll find some way to respond to this. Maybe I'm being cruel to doubt your other dog's intelligence. Let me just say, I do believe all dogs are intelligent in very different ways, but being able to regulate food intake is not one of their intelligences. How would you even know it's good for their health and well being even if they could regulate their food and hold it for 8 hours? I know you do plan to come home during lunch, which i sincerely hope you would. From the sound of your recent responses, it seems like you're hoping that when the dog is older, you could just leave him/her at home this long without coming home in the middle of the day. 

Were your other dogs left at home for 8 hours without going to the bathroom and were able to live up to 21 years? If so, good for you. Consider yourself lucky with that one. This golden puppy may not be the same. 

*retreats to mole hole*


----------



## AkCrimson

I've read every single post in this thread and shook my head in astonishment most of the way. 

I do think the OP has handled some of the harsher posts well (better than I would have). Some of you have been unnecessarily mean with your words...but everyone expresses themselves differently. But just because the OP has remained, for the most part, reasonably calm....does not make him right! 

Goodness JDK you have been saying some of the strangest things I've ever heard. A dog calculating it's water intake? No, they drink when they are thirsty and hold is as best they can. Let me ask you this - have you ever had to pee in the middle of a movie... or somewhere else where you couldn't go? Did you pee yourself because you had to go? No? But was is a pleasant experience? Probably not! 

Just because a dog CAN hold it for 8+ hours a day does not mean she SHOULD. It's unhealthy and uncomfortable. Willingly submitting your dog to having to hold it because she has no other option is cruel, IMO.


----------



## Megora

I'm having a problem sorting out this thread, but thought I'd throw my two cents in just in case anyone really is considering getting a dog and is trying to figure out how they are going to do that while working full time. 



> Naturally, I'm interested in crate training the box but there's come a problem with that. Her and I work full-time, 8 hrs a day. I already know leaving a puppy in a crate for 8 hours during the day is not the smartest thing to do, and believe me it's the last thing I would want to do.


8 straight hours (keeping in mind you are also going to be keeping that puppy in the crate for 6-8 hours at night) seems abusive to me. 

An adult dog can be home alone for 8 hours without any problems. Young dogs with growing bladders and higher energy levels would be a bit more problematic, and I would aim for 4 hours at a time. 

Personally speaking, I have family who I rely heavily on to keep my dogs as active and full lived as possible. I understand that all people might not have wonderful sweet parents and sisters like I do, so the other option is to talk with your partner about a lunch/home schedule. 

When my family is on vacation, I'm using my hour lunch to drive home and take care of my dogs. 

I know other people who pay trusted neighbors to stop over at the house and play with the dogs and get them out in the yard for fresh air. This would definitely be a good time to make friends with your neighbors. Having a good relationship with your neighbors anyway is a very good idea. They are your dog's second line of defense if your dog ever gets loose or you need help catching him. 



> Going from there, I thought well maybe I could leave the dog in the kitchen, which has a tile floor, and just block off the entrances. But than I thought, what about all the wood around the kitchen (ie table, chairs, cabinets) and the pup possibly chewing on them while I'm at work. That wouldn't be good.


Bored or stressed puppies chew. Puppies who receive adequate interaction from their owners should be fine. Our dogs usually were gated in our kitchen when nobody was around to watch them, this for the first few months until they were completely housebroken.



> Then I though well maybe I could get one of those x-pens, leave it in the center of the living room (carpet) and put down a puppy training pad and hope he goes on that. He would still need to be in there for 8hrs but it would seem a little less humane than leaving him in crate for the whole time, especially when he's going to have to sleep in the crate at night.


I think puppies can get caught on those x-pens. And I know that even some gates are only so useful with a bored puppy. <- Our first golden would jump over the baby gates to get to the rest of the house. We took them down rather than risk him getting caught on the top of them and seriously injured.

Using a puppy pad would only train your puppy that it's OK to go potty in the house. Even if you leave your puppy loose in the kitchen, this will be a huge problem if you are not taking that puppy outside every 2 or 3 hours. 

The reason why crates are advisable for puppies to be left alone for long hours is because they limit that puppy's ability to move around too much. So if that puppy has an accident he would have to sit in it until you get home. 

@meals - my head hurt from trying to read through all the pages, but puppies need to be fed three meals a day. Or at least twice a day.

Free feeding isn't really healthy for them + it takes away your first clue that something is wrong with your puppy (if your dog isn't finishing his meals, you know he's not feeling Ok). 

And it is cruel witholding water from a puppy all day.


----------



## Florabora22

I agree with Megora. I don't think a young puppy should be expected to hold its bladder for 8 hours. It's unreasonable and counterproductive (i.e. your puppy will not be potty trained very easily). When my dog was a puppy she had several UTIs and if I had expected her to hold her bladder for 8 hours I would have been sorely, SORELY disappointed. And let's not forget that puppies poop too!

Older dogs though, I think are totally fine left for 8 hours so long as they are given ample time beforehand to empty themselves and then given plenty of attention at the end of the day. 

Bottom line: the OP is going to do what he wants. Maybe he will get an 8 week old puppy that can hold its bladder for 8 hours, but I doubt it. When I had Flora I took her out every 30 minutes to relieve herself as well as to train her that the outdoors was the proper place to potty, not inside. You can't do that if you're gone 8 hours a day. My suggestion is to seriously consider a rescue dog that's already potty trained, but... well, the decision is yours to make, not mine. Good luck. I think you have the pup's best intentions at heart but maybe are a little bit confused as to what to expect from such a young animal.


----------



## JDK

AkCrimson said:


> I've read every single post in this thread and shook my head in astonishment most of the way.
> 
> I do think the OP has handled some of the harsher posts well (better than I would have). Some of you have been unnecessarily mean with your words...but everyone expresses themselves differently. But just because the OP has remained, for the most part, reasonably calm....does not make him right!
> 
> Goodness JDK you have been saying some of the strangest things I've ever heard. A dog calculating it's water intake? No, they drink when they are thirsty and hold is as best they can. Let me ask you this - have you ever had to pee in the middle of a movie... or somewhere else where you couldn't go? Did you pee yourself because you had to go? No? But was is a pleasant experience? Probably not!
> 
> Just because a dog CAN hold it for 8+ hours a day does not mean she SHOULD. It's unhealthy and uncomfortable. Willingly submitting your dog to having to hold it because she has no other option is cruel, IMO.


If i didn't drink a lot before before the movie, no I wouldn't have to go to the bathroom


----------



## Blondie

Can we close this thread? It goes on and on. You are going to do what you want to do, based on your own rationale and thought process. All I am concerned about, as you will find most here, is for the welfare of the dog or puppy you bring into your home. You've been given alot of thoughts and ideas to consider, from those who have contributed here. Ultimately it will be up to you to look at all of your options and figure things out.


----------



## JDK

Serawyn said:


> Dear all,
> 
> I hate to admit it, but I've been following this ridiculous thread. I myself am a new member and have been trying to learn as much as I can about goldens. I find this forum to be incredibly helpful. Many people on her are kind and generous with their ideas/advices.
> 
> Then along the way, there is someone like JDK. At first, I thought he sincerely wanted help and was just knocking down suggestions because he's trying to play devil's advocate; it's okay to question things if it means you're just trying to do what is best for the dog. However, in reading his slew of conflicting answers and questions, I think he just likes to "stir" it up a bit. I get the feeling he's sitting at his computer just laughing at everyone's responses.
> 
> How dare we suggest his dog can't regulate water and food intake? He's had good experiences with his other dogs, therefore, why would this puppy be any different? How dare we suggest that he may not financially be able to care for this puppy when in his first post, he actually said he can't. He even said, *"Dog walkers and doggie daycares are extremely expensive in my area and not something I can afford at this point in time. So even though they're available in the area, they're not an option right now."*
> 
> So, I think it's time I stop following this post because I will just give this poster a reason to knock me down into my mole hole again. (Paula beDard, I love your whack-a-mole reference because that's how I feel about this post too!)
> 
> JDK, I bet you'll find some way to respond to this. Maybe I'm being cruel to doubt your other dog's intelligence. Let me just say, I do believe all dogs are intelligent in very different ways, but being able to regulate food intake is not one of their intelligences. How would you even know it's good for their health and well being even if they could regulate their food and hold it for 8 hours? I know you do plan to come home during lunch, which i sincerely hope you would. From the sound of your recent responses, it seems like you're hoping that when the dog is older, you could just leave him/her at home this long without coming home in the middle of the day.
> 
> Were your other dogs left at home for 8 hours without going to the bathroom and were able to live up to 21 years? If so, good for you. Consider yourself lucky with that one. This golden puppy may not be the same.
> 
> *retreats to mole hole*


Actually, I am laughing. I'm laughing at how some people act as if these animals are stupid.

Once again, about the whole financial issue. Never said I can't afford the dog. I did however say I can't afford to pay $40 a day for a dog walker on top of all the other costs. Once again, I'm not rich. $40 a day is $200 a week, $800 a month, $9,600 a year. And doggie daycare is $750 a month. With that being said. If you read more into it, you would have seen the part where I said I have found a cheaper dog walker and that it's now within my range. 

Yes, my others dogs were left at home for 8 hours without going to the bathroom midday, as mentioned several times already. Sometimes even 9 hours. As are the peoples dogs who I work with. How do I know it was healthy? Easily. All my dogs were in great health and never had any UTI's or any other diseases. Everytime they went to the vet he would tell me they were in the best shape. On that note. My Chow lived to be 21, my Husky lived to 14, my German Shepard lived to be 11 and my Rottie passed at 15. So yea, if it was healthy I'm sure my dogs would of never lived past their life expectancy, and if they were forcing themselves to hold it, they would of had problems or simply gone on the floor, neither of which happened.


----------



## Jax's Mom

I see the OP asking WHAT he should do, not stating he will leave a puppy for 8 hours. If you get a young puppy (8-12 weeks old), the puppy would need someone to come over at least 2 X a day until somone gets home at 4:00. More is better, but it is not impossible to do if let out 2X during the day. That should last until he is 4 or 5 months old, in which case, 1 X a day would be fine, assuming someone comes home at 4. Honestly....harping on his every word is just rediculous. When this post first opened up he was asking for advice. By now, if I were the OP, I would be trying to get everyone's goat as well. And this is why I limit my postings sometimes....I am sure I am not the only one. 
ad·vice
   /ædˈvaɪs/  Show Spelled[ad-*vahys*]  Show IPA
*noun *1. an opinion or recommendation offered as a guide to action, conduct, etc.: _I shall act on your advice. _

2. a communication, especially from a distance, containing information: _Advice from abroad informs us that the government has fallen. Recent diplomatic advices have been ominous. _
_*badg·er*

   /ˈbædʒ







ər/  Show Spelled[*baj*-er]  Show IPA
_
*verb (used with object) *6. to harass or urge persistently; pester; nag: _I had to badger him into coming with us. _


----------



## Jax's Mom

jdk said:


> how's everybody doing.
> 
> In 2-3 weeks my gf and i will be the proud owners of a golden retriever puppy.
> 
> Naturally, i'm interested in crate training the box but there's come a problem with that. Her and i work full-time, 8 hrs a day. I already know leaving a puppy in a crate for 8 hours during the day is not the smartest thing to do, and believe me it's the last thing i would want to do.
> 
> What are some of my other options here?
> 
> I live in an area where everybody works and don't have neighbors that are around to come over and walk my dog. Not to mention most of them probably wouldn't want to even if they were home since they're rather snobby :yuck:
> 
> Dog walkers and doggie daycares are extremely expensive in my area and not something i can afford at this point in time. So even though they're available in the area, they're not an option right now.
> 
> Going from there, i thought well maybe i could leave the dog in the kitchen, which has a tile floor, and just block off the entrances. But than i thought, what about all the wood around the kitchen (ie table, chairs, cabinets) and the pup possibly chewing on them while i'm at work. That wouldn't be good.
> 
> Then i though well maybe i could get one of those x-pens, leave it in the center of the living room (carpet) and put down a puppy training pad and hope he goes on that. He would still need to be in there for 8hrs but it would seem a little less humane than leaving him in crate for the whole time, especially when he's going to have to sleep in the crate at night.
> 
> Aside from what i mentioned i don't really know what else i could do. I'm so stressed over this that i'm starting to consider telling the breeder to keep the dog and my no-refund deposit. Not really what i want to do, *but at the same time i'm not going to get a pup if i can't provide for him. I love animals and wouldn't want to put him in a bad position.*
> 
> *any suggestions here?*


 *<----------asking advice*


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## jackie_hubert

I suggest it's time to close this thread...


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## JDK

Jax's Mom said:


> I see the OP asking WHAT he should do, not stating he will leave a puppy for 8 hours. If you get a young puppy (8-12 weeks old), the puppy would need someone to come over at least 2 X a day until somone gets home at 4:00. More is better, but it is not impossible to do if let out 2X during the day. That should last until he is 4 or 5 months old, in which case, 1 X a day would be fine, assuming someone comes home at 4. Honestly....harping on his every word is just rediculous. When this post first opened up he was asking for advice. By now, if I were the OP, I would be trying to get everyone's goat as well. And this is why I limit my postings sometimes....I am sure I am not the only one.
> ad·vice
> /ædˈvaɪs/  Show Spelled[ad-*vahys*]  Show IPA
> *noun *1. an opinion or recommendation offered as a guide to action, conduct, etc.: _I shall act on your advice. _
> 
> 2. a communication, especially from a distance, containing information: _Advice from abroad informs us that the government has fallen. Recent diplomatic advices have been ominous. _
> _*badg·er*
> 
> /ˈbædʒ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ər/  Show Spelled[*baj*-er]  Show IPA
> _
> *verb (used with object) *6. to harass or urge persistently; pester; nag: _I had to badger him into coming with us. _


Somehow, people seem to believe that I'm going to "do whatever I want even if it's not the right thing", when in fact I've said from the get-go that if there's no solid plan to put into play there will be no puppy to worry about. 

This thread started as a way to brainstorm ideas and possible opinions that I may not have thought of. When those options were mentioned and I said there was no way I could do whatever it was mentioned, people took that as me saying "I don't want to do that, I want to do this and I'm gonna do this", when it was just me saying it would be a great option but it just won't work in my situation. Neither here nor there, people can assume what they want. I know why I'm here and I know that the dog's well-being is my top priority. If it wasn't, I wouldn't even of took the time to join a forum, post a thread and ask. I would of just done "what I want", right?.

Somebody mentioned that they're surprised I've kept my cool for this long? Why wouldn't I. It's an internet forum full of people who know nothing about me, so what they really think or say about me means squat. If they like me, great. If not, i'll still sleep like a baby tonight. I don't come back with attacks cause quite frankly, I think it's rather immature and I'd rather not resort to such childish behaviors. I'm an adult, therefore I act like one.


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## Deb_Bayne

jackie_hubert said:


> I suggest it's time to close this thread...


agreed....


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## Luccagr

Though I haven't contributed to this thread but reading through it is like going round in circles. Just close this thread. The folks here have given some pretty good advice/suggestions and it's really up to you what you want to do. It is your dog afterall. And most of the folks here are right. You need to be able to spend the entire day with your 8 wk pup if you want him potty trained in the soonest possible time. Any mistakes will only lead to regression.


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## baileyboym22

Please close this thread. It seems like enough feedback has been shared both ways, and if there are other new members who may be looking for information, advice, etc. and cut in part way through it....I don't think we are being responsible to them.


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## bernadettet

JDK you can listen to eveyone on heres advise but mine is DIFFERENT, i have a puppy golden retreiver she is 4 months now but we got her at 8 weeks old,we both work full time. It is hard dont get me wrong but i do not have a dog walker or anyone letting my puppy out eaither. She is crate trained. She is in there 7-8hours at night and 8 hous when at work. In the first month she had a little trouble but she did not go bathroom in her crate much i can prob count the number of times she has. maybe 4 times or 5 and thats in almost 5 months. Make sure the crate isnt to big for her it sounds bad but they should only have enogh room to turn around i found that out the hard way the couple of times she did go ini crate it was to big. It is possible and they get use to it i take her 2 walks a day and training class once a week 2 u can do it you really want oone it is possible im living proof and she gets plenty attention


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## bernadettet

this is luckys owner the one with a puppy and worked full time min does not go out mid day i leave for work at 9am and amnot home till 430 500 and she has not had any accidents in her crate or in the house she is housebroken and crate trained at 4 months old and me and my husband work full time . I feed her in the am and pm she even has a water bottle like the rabbit ones on her crate and she wont pee in her crate you can do it. i also have bells on my door and she will ring the bell to go out when i am home


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## Wyatt's mommy

I'm sorry but it is ludicrous to keep a puppy in a crate for 8 hours at night just to be put back in for another 9 to 10 hours in the day........I'm inclined to think this is a joke post.
Yes you can have a puppy and work full time too......it just takes alot more work.......


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## Sophie_Mom

I started to type..... "Just because they can hold it and stay in the crate for that long doesn't mean they should."



Wyatt's mommy said:


> I'm sorry but it is ludicrous to keep a puppy in a crate for 8 hours at night just to be put back in for another 9 to 10 hours in the day........I'm inclined to think this is a joke post.
> Yes you can have a puppy and work full time too......it just takes alot more work.......


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## Angelina

I waited almost 20 years before I could get a dog...the circumstances were just not right. I grew up with them and it was painful (but the horse helped!). When I finally did it was a 14 month old so I didn't have to worry about puppyhood. Second dog was a 18 month old. Even with those two I have dog walkers, neighbors who love them and will let them out if they are in during winter, and my full devotion before and after work. I could probably 'get away' with a puppy, crate it or pen it in the shady yard during the day, but I don't because I want to do what is best for the dog...not for me. I will save it for when I retire. That said, I understand people have to work and think it is ludicrous that some of the rescues won't even talk to you if you work full time. There has to be a balance. But there are also SOOO many dogs who need adoption; great dogs that didn't work out and were given over for various reasons. So the question is, why not just adopt a dog a bit older; but still a pup; but also realize you should be prepared to bite the bullet and pay for a walker or day care even if it is only a few times a week? It really makes a big difference. Good luck to you.


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## kwhit

bernadettet said:


> She is in there 7-8hours at night and 8 hous when at work.


If anyone is reading this thread to get advise on how to have a puppy when working full time, the above schedule is *NOT* the way to do it. Please read the whole thread to get ideas for the _right_ way to deal with a puppy when you work full-time such as getting someone to come in and let the puppy out _at least_ one time during the day. If that's not possible consider an older dog, (although I still went home on lunch while I was working to let my two out and they were 5 and 2 yrs. old), and put the puppy idea on hold until there's a better solution than having to crate the poor thing for the whole day.


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## Sally's Mom

All day and all night in a crate. I would NEVER sell you a pup!


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## jackie_hubert

It is consider abuse in this province to have a puppy crated for that many hours in a 24hr period. Please think carefully before posting that you do that...


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## kdel

bernadettet said:


> JDK you can listen to eveyone on heres advise but mine is DIFFERENT, i have a puppy golden retreiver she is 4 months now but we got her at 8 weeks old,we both work full time. It is hard dont get me wrong but i do not have a dog walker or anyone letting my puppy out eaither. She is crate trained. She is in there 7-8hours at night and 8 hous when at work. In the first month she had a little trouble but she did not go bathroom in her crate much i can prob count the number of times she has. maybe 4 times or 5 and thats in almost 5 months. Make sure the crate isnt to big for her it sounds bad but they should only have enogh room to turn around i found that out the hard way the couple of times she did go ini crate it was to big. It is possible and they get use to it i take her 2 walks a day and training class once a week 2 u can do it you really want oone it is possible im living proof and she gets plenty attention


Please don't encourage people to do this.


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## Loisiana

JDK I like you. You seem to be an intelligent person who can think through an issue and look at all different angles to it and apply some common sense to figure out a solution. That is exactly what I am trying to teach my students to do.

I think your plan sounds fine - stay home a couple of weeks, then come home for lunch for a couple of months, and then your dog should be fine to make it through the full work day by that point. I can't say I agree that dogs learn to regulate their intake based on your schedule - I think they just learn to better control their output. But everything else you have said I agree with completely.


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## wmag

bernadettet said:


> this is luckys owner the one with a puppy and worked full time min does not go out mid day i leave for work at 9am and amnot home till 430 500 and she has not had any accidents in her crate or in the house she is housebroken and crate trained at 4 months old and me and my husband work full time . I feed her in the am and pm she even has a water bottle like the rabbit ones on her crate and she wont pee in her crate you can do it. i also have bells on my door and she will ring the bell to go out when i am home


I am not taking sides either way but I want to say not every puppy or dog is the same! It is not true that they won't pee in the crate! My puppy did go pee and poop in her crate a couple times. Don't worry she cleaned up by eating it! YUCK! In the beginning I had to take her out every hr and at night she had to go out a couple times. Now she is 4 months old and she holds it for 8 hrs at night but during the day I take her out every 2 to 3 hrs. Not to mention she still poops 3 to 4 times a day! This has been my experience and like I said not every puppy is the same!


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## Deb_Bayne

I waited until I was working the hours needed to be able to have a dog. I went from working 8 to 9 hour days to driving a school bus, now I'm home after 9 a.m. and back out at 1:30 p.m.... plenty of time to have the proper responsibility and time for my puppy. He got fed three times a day, out of his crate for at least 14 hours a day instead of in it for 16 hours. He had one accident in his crate at night and that was because he drank water too late. To ask a puppy with a bladder the size of a walnut to not pee for 8 hours is ludicrious. LIke the other poster said, the puppy probably licked it up or it dried up that you can't see it by the time you got home. And yes, dogs will eat their own poop.


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## aerolor

bernadettet said:


> JDK you can listen to eveyone on heres advise but mine is DIFFERENT, i have a puppy golden retreiver she is 4 months now but we got her at 8 weeks old,we both work full time. It is hard dont get me wrong but i do not have a dog walker or anyone letting my puppy out eaither. She is crate trained. She is in there 7-8hours at night and 8 hous when at work. In the first month she had a little trouble but she did not go bathroom in her crate much i can prob count the number of times she has. maybe 4 times or 5 and thats in almost 5 months. Make sure the crate isnt to big for her it sounds bad but they should only have enogh room to turn around i found that out the hard way the couple of times she did go ini crate it was to big. It is possible and they get use to it i take her 2 walks a day and training class once a week 2 u can do it you really want oone it is possible im living proof and she gets plenty attention


I would ask you who is it hard on - you or the pup? You are out at work all day and not there. 
Also you say your pup is 4 months old, but you say that you have been doing this for almost 5 months - doesn't make sense given that the pup was 2 months old when you got her.

You won't like this but I would say that what you are doing is abusive and cruel. I would like you to be put in a box with just enough room to turn around in for 16 hours out of 24 and see how you feel.  I recommend that you get a stuffed toy instead of a living breathing creature who depends on you for everything.


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## Elliot'sMomma

My husband and I work full time but I am able to come home at lunch and love on my pup. He's 4.5 months now and our situation works really well. We have a basement with nothing in it but his toys where he romps during the day. For every week they are alive they can hold their bladder a little longer. I think your best solution is to budget daycare until your pup is 3 months. Maybe you could have the breeder care for the pup for a couple more weeks, but you will be missing bonding time.


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## Elliot'sMomma

Also, goldens are early risers we get up at 5am so that we can love on our pup and that he can have victory in his crate.


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## Nyahsmommy

Let me just say that it is impossible and cruel to leave a pup under 7 months for that long alone. I know because I tried it. Pups are like babies and need constant attention. 

When we got out pup she just turned 11 weeks. The first day we left her by herself but had someone let her out to pee.... even with this she was still super stressed. For a few weeks we shuffled her between peoples houses to babysit... caused a lot of stress for the puppy. Eventually no one was able to watch her so we left her alone for 8 hours... let me tell you I spent the whole day at work crying... came home and she was shaking and covered in pee. I was a contract worker and it was suppose to end in Septmeber but that made me snap and I ended my contract right then.

My Nyah is so much happier now that I am home with her and I can finally give her the training and care she needs. She also pees every 1-2 hours so even at 4 months I don't leave her alone for more than 2 hours at a time.


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## mylissyk

bernadettet said:


> JDK you can listen to eveyone on heres advise but mine is DIFFERENT, i have a puppy golden retreiver she is 4 months now but we got her at 8 weeks old,we both work full time. It is hard dont get me wrong but i do not have a dog walker or anyone letting my puppy out eaither. She is crate trained. She is in there 7-8hours at night and 8 hous when at work. In the first month she had a little trouble but she did not go bathroom in her crate much i can prob count the number of times she has. maybe 4 times or 5 and thats in almost 5 months. Make sure the crate isnt to big for her it sounds bad but they should only have enogh room to turn around i found that out the hard way the couple of times she did go ini crate it was to big. It is possible and they get use to it i take her 2 walks a day and training class once a week 2 u can do it you really want oone it is possible im living proof and she gets plenty attention


I feel very sorry for your puppy. Sure you can do this to her, she has no choice. But it's not good for her. 4 month old puppies should not be forced to hold their bladder for 8 to 10 hours a day, or have to sit in their urine when they can't, that's cruel.


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## doula1st

I know everyone has different circumstances in life, and I am really glad you are seeking advice now. I cannot imagine leaving my pup for 8 hours during the day and end up with a well -socialized, and happy dog. The training would be very difficult, but my concern would be for the pups welfare. Hope you can work something out that keeps one of you there more hours. Good luck!


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## luverofpeanuts

wmag said:


> I am not taking sides either way but I want to say not every puppy or dog is the same! It is not true that they won't pee in the crate! My puppy did go pee and poop in her crate a couple times.


Dittt for me... I didn't want to just add to this thread... but just had to. 

I work full time, my wife works 80% Full Time. Luckily, my work is flexible enough, and I'm close enough to home, that I can make a run home and back in 30 minutes...and that's with a 10-15 minute dog potty. I did that 2 or 3 times a day when the pups until they started getting more control. And still do every 4 or 5 hours yet...at 18 weeks.

Aspen "got it" pretty quick... but Spirit was very unpredictable. Leaving him more than 2 or 3 hours was risky until maybe 15 weeks or so...then he seemed to get control and start more "getting it" . 

Now, at 18 weeks... they are pretty good.. but I won't go more than 5 or 6 hours yet... and * have a puppycam setup , so that if I see Spirit sitting up in his crate... barking... I'm grabbing my keys and bolting home!! I know not everyone has that luxury... but my point is that we have it about as good as you can get it, with two nearly full time spouses... and we still have had to deal with potty in crate...... And for me, there was nothing worse than seeing my little guy in his crate...sitting off to the edge because his cushion was wet with potty.....a horrible horrible feeling... even worse because he comes out of the crate still happy to see me...even though **I** let this happen. :doh:

Anyway... as others have said... I think this thread is full of all sides of the issue... but the idea of forcing puppies to go 8 hours is *really* pushing it, IMHO. Besides... young puppies should see, touch, and feel you as often as possible.... it's good for them, and good for you.


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## puddinhd58

I have not had time to read all the threads but we are getting a puppy :bowl:SATURDAY :bowl: and my hubby and I both work. 

We have not had a puppy in years but have had many of them over the past 35 years...We will crate train also, but I can't see leaving a young pup caged over a whole day until they are completely trained and older...puppies DO and WILL pee and poop in their cage and if you're gone for hours, they will then, lay in said mess. :uhoh: They have no choice. 

Thankfully my Mom is retired and when I go back to work, she will have Didge during the day. 
I took off two weeks and then my hubby is taking a week to get Didge used to us, our home and a schedule....
When we go back to work, I will drop him off at my Mom's on the way to work. My hubbies employer also said my hubby could bring Didge a couple days a week...so he may go to work with Daddy....:

We will do this until he can _comfortably_ stay in the cage for the day.... eventually he will..all of our young dogs (9mnts old to 2 yrs old) have done it and had no problems at all, until they are trusted to roam to the house during the day. 

They get in a routine like the rest of us.... My dogs are used to sleeping and resting in the day to wait for Momma and Daddy to come home and PLAY!!! (That's what they led us to believe anyway....no wonder what mischief they are up to  We spend a few hours with them at night outside or in and they sleep with us in our bedroom...

I soooooo wish I never had to leave them but until I can retire, this works for us....

Although, I have to say, if my Mom was not home to care for Didge during the day, I would not be getting a puppy.... it's just not fair to the pup...

Good luck with what you decide to do..... a young dog might be a better idea?


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## cuppycake

I am in the middle of the same situation right now. I did all my research prior to putting a deposit down for a puppy, estimated costs and everything. At the time though, my boyfriend was hitting the field in his job about 3 hours a day so he would have had plenty of time with the puppy. Now, he has to be in the field about the same amount of time that I am gone for work which is about 9.5 hours. My puppy was born yesterday and I do not even want to think about not taking it home with me in 8 weeks. I have looked into dog walking options, $10 per day isn't bad.. I'm just going to keep checking craigslist or post my own ads in the paper or online for a dog walker. Most that I have found charge about $15.00 per walk, which isn't feasible for us right now. 

I am also considering maybe just sucking up the extra money and doing a doggy day care for a few months. Maybe that would speed up the potty training and obedience process? I would spend more money now but save in the long run possibly on walks + obedience classes?


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## Florabora22

cuppycake said:


> I am in the middle of the same situation right now. I did all my research prior to putting a deposit down for a puppy, estimated costs and everything. At the time though, my boyfriend was hitting the field in his job about 3 hours a day so he would have had plenty of time with the puppy. Now, he has to be in the field about the same amount of time that I am gone for work which is about 9.5 hours. My puppy was born yesterday and I do not even want to think about not taking it home with me in 8 weeks. I have looked into dog walking options, $10 per day isn't bad.. I'm just going to keep checking craigslist or post my own ads in the paper or online for a dog walker. Most that I have found charge about $15.00 per walk, which isn't feasible for us right now.
> 
> I am also considering maybe just sucking up the extra money and doing a doggy day care for a few months. Maybe that would speed up the potty training and obedience process? I would spend more money now but save in the long run possibly on walks + obedience classes?


I doubt many doggy daycare facilities will take an 8 week old puppy. In fact, any legitimate, respectable facility should say "nope!" to that (I think, I guess I could be wrong!). I would recommend opting for the dog walker. $15.00 a walk is AWESOME. I am a super poor college student and had to pay $65.00 a day for someone to come in 3x a day to watch Flora when I was out of town for research. It killed me, but I tightened my belt and moved on with life.

And honestly, if anything, doggy daycare increases the likelihood of your dog picking up bad habits. It may be good for socializing (not for all dogs though - mine HATED doggy day care), but it is absolutely not a replacement for a good obedience class and personal 1x1 time with your puppy.
Good luck!


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## cuppycake

JDK said:


> How's everybody doing.
> 
> In 2-3 weeks my gf and I will be the proud owners of a golden retriever puppy.
> 
> Naturally, I'm interested in crate training the box but there's come a problem with that. Her and I work full-time, 8 hrs a day. I already know leaving a puppy in a crate for 8 hours during the day is not the smartest thing to do, and believe me it's the last thing I would want to do.
> 
> What are some of my other options here?
> 
> I live in an area where everybody works and don't have neighbors that are around to come over and walk my dog. Not to mention most of them probably wouldn't want to even if they were home since they're rather snobby :yuck:
> 
> Dog walkers and doggie daycares are extremely expensive in my area and not something I can afford at this point in time. So even though they're available in the area, they're not an option right now.
> 
> Going from there, I thought well maybe I could leave the dog in the kitchen, which has a tile floor, and just block off the entrances. But than I thought, what about all the wood around the kitchen (ie table, chairs, cabinets) and the pup possibly chewing on them while I'm at work. That wouldn't be good.
> 
> Then I though well maybe I could get one of those x-pens, leave it in the center of the living room (carpet) and put down a puppy training pad and hope he goes on that. He would still need to be in there for 8hrs but it would seem a little less humane than leaving him in crate for the whole time, especially when he's going to have to sleep in the crate at night.
> 
> Aside from what I mentioned I don't really know what else I could do. I'm so stressed over this that I'm starting to consider telling the breeder to keep the dog and my no-refund deposit. Not really what I want to do, but at the same time I'm not going to get a pup if I can't provide for him. I love animals and wouldn't want to put him in a bad position.
> 
> Any suggestions here?


http://www.sittercity.com/search-sitters.html?ct=2&zip=

Hey, not sure if you decided against getting the puppy or not or exactly what your time frame was but I found this link today. I found people to come over for $5.00 a day when the going rate in my area is about $15.00 for a walk or visit. 

Hope this helps.


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## Deb_Bayne

cuppycake said:


> I am gone for work which is about 9.5 hours.
> 
> I am also considering maybe just sucking up the extra money and doing a doggy day care for a few months. Maybe that would speed up the potty training and obedience process? I would spend more money now but save in the long run possibly on walks + obedience classes?


 and when is the bonding time between you and puppy going to happen? 

Guess you know where this is going, just read the prior posts in response to the OP.


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## Sterling Archer

cuppycake said:


> I am in the middle of the same situation right now. I did all my research prior to putting a deposit down for a puppy, estimated costs and everything. At the time though, my boyfriend was hitting the field in his job about 3 hours a day so he would have had plenty of time with the puppy. Now, he has to be in the field about the same amount of time that I am gone for work which is about 9.5 hours. * My puppy was born yesterday and I do not even want to think about not taking it home with me in 8 weeks.* I have looked into dog walking options, $10 per day isn't bad.. I'm just going to keep checking craigslist or post my own ads in the paper or online for a dog walker. Most that I have found charge about $15.00 per walk, which isn't feasible for us right now.
> 
> I am also considering maybe just sucking up the extra money and doing a doggy day care for a few months. Maybe that would speed up the potty training and obedience process? I would spend more money now but save in the long run possibly on walks + obedience classes?


Well...one thing I'll say is that if you really want something , you'll find a way to make it happen (assuming you aren't already strapped). 

Even if you can make the finances work, I'd be concerned about the amount of time you're going to be away from the puppy. As you alluded to...9.5hrs is too long for a puppy to be alone (no potty break or interaction). Just my $.02.


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## newport

_*Why not adopt an older dog?*_ We adopted a year old sweet girl- Lola just three weeks ago. She was house trained- which made it better as we are both working also. A puppy for us would not have been fair to the dog. Puppies like babies need constant time. Lola was crate trained - use to the work schedule and does not mind being home for a few hours a day. Really consider this! You will be happier and the dog will be happier- plus you give a forever home to a dog that deserves better than their current conditions:wavey: We are so happy with Lola!!


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## JDK

Wow, I didn't know people were still beating this dead horse until I got an email about the thread and the posts.

Anyway. Since I'm the original poster I might as well post an update.

We picked up our pup, JJ, up two weeks ago and have worked out a plan of action we feel confident and comfortable with.

JJ been under constant watch for the past 2 weeks, and will be for another 2 weeks until we go back to work. These past two weeks I've gotten, maybe, 3hrs of sleep each night, and it's not cause JJ had to go out. He goes to bed around 10-11 and sleeps till 5. I just stayed up to study his sleeping pattern.

When my girlfriend and I return to work in 2 weeks, we'll have a dog walker coming at 10:30 and 3:30, with me stopping home in between at 12-12:30 to let JJ out. The walker isn't exactly cheap but she comes highly recommend. I found her by asking my customers at work whether or not they use a dog walker, and if so, who. I must of asked about 150 people. 7 out of 10 said they use this one lady. We decided to bite the bullet and give in to her rather high price since it's only for a short time. In a few short months we'll be able to cut the walker down to once a day, cutting the price in half, before cutting her out entirely. We'll be tightening our belts to adjust for this arrangement, but once again it's only for a limited time.

I refused to hire "some college kid" or somebody off craigslist since not everybody these days can be trusted to come into your home without some sort of problem arising. Not to mention, who's to say the poor college kid looking to make a quick buck or unemployed person browsing Craigslist is actually going to watch over my pup carefully when he's outside (i.e. not let him eat leaves, mushrooms, etc). These were risks I was not willing to take. That's not to say there aren't people out there who can't be trusted in somebody else's home without that person being, you just have to be extremely careful with your selection. The walker I selected is insured and bonded, and has owned and walked dogs longer than I've been alive. 

Those who mentioned puppy daycare, it's not possible. Most respectable daycare facilities that have any regard for health and safety issues won't take a dog until its had all its shots. If I did decide to go that route I would of had to find an alternative for the 3rd month, such as hiring the dog walker for a month and then putting the dog in daycare. I opted to go with the dog walker all around since I've heard some bad things about doggy daycares, like how everything your training the dog to learn is pretty much thrown out the window, and how he comes home with new bad habits.

Personally speaking, I don't even think the dog walker is going to be needed twice a day, but we're doing it anyway just to be on the safe side and so our potty training isn't delayed.

These past two weeks I've been acting as if it's a normal work day. The pup and I wake up at 5am, we go outside to do his business and take a walk or two around the house. We when go inside, play for about 30-40 minutes in the living room and then I feed him. By this time it's around 6am. By the time he finishes eating it's around 6:15, since he licks the bowl for a good 5 minutes after all the food is gone - this guy doesn't miss a crumb. We play around again for another 30minutes or so, bringing us to 6:45. I take him outside again to relieve himself and for a mild walk around the house. By about 7am we're back in side. By this time, he's starting to wind down and looking for a place to conk out. He lays around till about 7:20 and then its outside for one last potty break, which usually turns into a quick little squirt. We come inside and I put him in his crate and go in another area of the house.

I've come to find that JJ sleeps from 7:30am till about 12pm without a peep. I thought puppies had to go out every 1-2 hours at such a young age? Anyway. He gets up at 12, we go outside, we come back in to eat, we go back outside again about 20 minutes later and then it's back in the crate by about 12:40. He then sleeps till around 3:45-4:00pm. If he's sleeping I figure let him sleep. No reason to wake him up if he doesn't need to go.

From 4-6 we play and he goes outside once or twice. By 6 it's dinner time. By 7 he's outside again. When he comes back in takes a nap and sleeps till about 9:00-9:30. We then play and go out a few times until he starts to doze off around 11.

Knock on wood, but no accidents yet. He's a bitter and jumper though. I almost got him to stop biting hands and feet, but he loves shirts and pants. Not to mention certain spots in the carpet. Not quite sure what he's smelling but he sniffs the living room carpet up and down until he finds a certain spot he likes, then he starts biting it and trying to pull it up. I've already shampooed the area 2-3 times. It must be something in the padding he's picking up. 

To those of you reading this who may be in the same situation as me, only you know whether or not you can make it work. Don't let anybody tell you what you can and can't do. Take other peoples suggestions but don't let them make your decisions. According to what some people believe, half the worlds dog owners shouldn't be dog owners, and many of them make it out to seem like if you can't do this and that and don't have the benefit to sit on your bum all day you shouldn't have a dog.


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## Florabora22

JDK said:


> To those of you reading this who may be in the same situation as me, only you know whether or not you can make it work. Don't let anybody tell you what you can and can't do. Take other peoples suggestions but don't let them make your decisions. According to what some people believe, half the worlds dog owners shouldn't be dog owners, and many of them make it out to seem like if you can't do this and that and don't have the benefit to sit on your bum all day you shouldn't have a dog.



I think it sounds like you've worked out a really great system for your puppy. Kudos to you. I do have to comment on this last bit. You criticize people here based on what we've said with regards to someone working full time and having a puppy. Keep in mind, most of us were criticizing the notion of someone leaving an 8 week old puppy home for 8+ hours a day without any potty breaks. 

You obviously must have agreed with us on some level, or else why are you having a dog walker come in 2x a day? Certainly not because we cowed you into doing it; I can tell that you are a very resolute character that would not easily give in to some internet persona telling you what to do.

I think your schedule is phenomenal for a puppy. You and your gf will do very well with him, I am sure. Good luck for those future months to come! They can be trying, but in the end, it's so worth it.


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## JDK

kdmarsh said:


> I think it sounds like you've worked out a really great system for your puppy. Kudos to you. I do have to comment on this last bit. You criticize people here based on what we've said with regards to someone working full time and having a puppy. Keep in mind, most of us were criticizing the notion of someone leaving an 8 week old puppy home for 8+ hours a day without any potty breaks.
> 
> You obviously must have agreed with us on some level, or else why are you having a dog walker come in 2x a day? Certainly not because we cowed you into doing it; I can tell that you are a very resolute character that would not easily give in to some internet persona telling you what to do.
> 
> I think your schedule is phenomenal for a puppy. You and your gf will do very well with him, I am sure. Good luck for those future months to come! They can be trying, but in the end, it's so worth it.


I never said I didn't agree with the fact that a puppy shouldn't be left in a crate for 8hrs straight. 4hrs max, I agree with, if the puppy seems to be able to handle it. No more then that though, unless its a rare occasion. 

And you're right. I don't give in to anything  I just do whatever it takes to make it work, no whining involved.

We couldn't be happier with JJ's schedule so far, but it's not like we don't expect it to change at some point. We hope it doesn't, of course, but we're not foolish enough to believe there isn't a chance it will.

He seems pretty set so far on going outside, granted it's only been two weeks. I'm pretty demanding though, which I think helps with his training. I don't yell at him or anything like that, but I'm 6'8, so I imagine my height shows a sense of power to him, as it does with most people. They see my height and instantly think I'm somebody not to F-with, although I'm like a big teddy bear


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## JDK

If you're interested, I posted a few photos of JJ here: http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...102412-allow-me-introduce-jj.html#post1518158


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## Florabora22

JDK said:


> I never said I didn't agree with the fact that a puppy shouldn't be left in a crate for 8hrs straight. 4hrs max, I agree with, if the puppy seems to be able to handle it. No more then that though, unless its a rare occasion.
> 
> And you're right. I don't give in to anything  I just do whatever it takes to make it work, no whining involved.
> 
> We couldn't be happier with JJ's schedule so far, but it's not like we don't expect it to change at some point. We hope it doesn't, of course, but we're not foolish enough to believe there isn't a chance it will.
> 
> He seems pretty set so far on going outside, granted it's only been two weeks. I'm pretty demanding though, which I think helps with his training. I don't yell at him or anything like that, but I'm 6'8, so I imagine my height shows a sense of power to him, as it does with most people. They see my height and instantly think I'm somebody not to F-with, although I'm like a big teddy bear


I wish I had had your schedule when my dog was a puppy. She was a terror in the crate and had all sorts of urinary tract infections. Getting her potty trained was super fun.

And height means nothing to a dog! My dad is 6'6" and he's Flora's favorite person (next to me, I hope... :uhoh. 

Congrats again on the new puppy. I am really pleased to read that things are working out so well for you and yours.


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## luverofpeanuts

Yes, you deserve great kudos for creating a workable plan that will for sure benefit JJ in the long right. Way to persevere!


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## Jax's Mom

kdmarsh said:


> I think it sounds like you've worked out a really great system for your puppy. Kudos to you. I do have to comment on this last bit. You criticize people here based on what we've said with regards to someone working full time and having a puppy. Keep in mind, most of us were criticizing the notion of someone leaving an 8 week old puppy home for 8+ hours a day without any potty breaks.
> 
> You obviously must have agreed with us on some level, or else why are you having a dog walker come in 2x a day? Certainly not because we cowed you into doing it; I can tell that you are a very resolute character that would not easily give in to some internet persona telling you what to do.
> 
> I think your schedule is phenomenal for a puppy. You and your gf will do very well with him, I am sure. Good luck for those future months to come! They can be trying, but in the end, it's so worth it.


Without re-reading this entire thread, I remember the OP asking for advice and heading alot of it, as seen by his current schedule. People we assuming alot of things and making it seem like he was going to leave the dog for 8-10 hours a day when first bringing him home. I did not read that in his posts and was trying to be his supporter. Its difficult when first coming onto this board when posts come badgering in exaggerating things. In any case, I am happy the OP has his pup and he seems to be pretty much on top of things.


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## Jax's Mom

To the OP...I think everyone on here would LOVE to see a pic of JJ!


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## JDK

kdmarsh said:


> I wish I had had your schedule when my dog was a puppy. She was a terror in the crate and had all sorts of urinary tract infections. Getting her potty trained was super fun.
> 
> And height means nothing to a dog! My dad is 6'6" and he's Flora's favorite person (next to me, I hope... :uhoh.
> 
> Congrats again on the new puppy. I am really pleased to read that things are working out so well for you and yours.


Thanks. It wasn't exactly easy to work the schedule out to have the first month home with the pup. My girlfriend and I both opted to take time off without pay. Me 2 weeks and her 2 weeks. Like I said, we're tightening our belts for now to make it work over the next few months, then things will go back to normal. I've eaten PB&J with the crust cut off for breakfast and lunch for the past week and a half now  We're talking $2 for a loaf of bread and $4 or so total for peanut butter and jelly. For $6 dollars you have breakfast and lunch for the next week, or longer if you don't overdo the JB&J. Whereas if I go to the deli for lunch, like i do at work, that's atleast $50 a week. I just pig out at dinner to make up the difference.


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## JDK

Jax's Mom said:


> To the OP...I think everyone on here would LOVE to see a pic of JJ!


Already ahead of you  http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...102412-allow-me-introduce-jj.html#post1518158


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## Usha Maceio Brazil

Congratulations! JJ is so cute!
I am happy you got your schedule working. Enjoy as much as you can because puppies become dogs way too fast!


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