# Training resources for Hunting Companion



## JoshNy

I am not involved in field trials or hunt tests. Not to say I never will be, but my primary focus is a hunting companion.

I am looking at Evan G's Smartworks DVD set or basics set and wondering if it is right for me. These DVD's are quite expensive, but I understand they are well below the cost of hiring a professional trainer. Do the methods and teachings work for both real world hunting AND field trials or is their a better system, book, or techniques specifically for hunting only?

I am also looking at the Sound Beginnings DVD by Jack Mertins.

If you have any favorite books or links I would appreciate any recommendations as well.

Feel free to correct me if I am using the wrong terminology or other general "newbie" mistakes.

Thanks


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## sterregold

The book I like to recommend is by Cherylon Loveland, _Retriever Puppy Training: The Right Start for Hunting_. It is a very step by step basics program, and describes what to do in sequential detail. Having a system shown on video is also useful so you can visualize the lessons. Smartworks is one such system, Rick Stawski's Fowl Dawgs is another, and of course there is Mike Lardy's Total Retriever Training.


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## EvanG

JoshNy said:


> I am not involved in field trials or hunt tests. Not to say I never will be, but my primary focus is a hunting companion.
> 
> I am looking at Evan G's Smartworks DVD set or basics set and wondering if it is right for me. These DVD's are quite expensive, but I understand they are well below the cost of hiring a professional trainer. Do the methods and teachings work for both real world hunting AND field trials or is their a better system, book, or techniques specifically for hunting only?
> 
> I am also looking at the Sound Beginnings DVD by Jack Mertins.
> 
> If you have any favorite books or links I would appreciate any recommendations as well.
> 
> Feel free to correct me if I am using the wrong terminology or other general "newbie" mistakes.
> 
> Thanks


You've stated your ideas very well. If you start with the "Bonus Basics Pack Special" you'll have the Smartwork Puppy Program (no need for Sound Beginnings), plus all 4 DVD programs of formal Basics. Right now we're running a special that will include all 3 DVD's of Transition at no extra cost with that Basics Pack. That's the start any working retriever needs. Do you have aspirations toward Hunt Tests or Field Trials? If so let me know. Otherwise, you should add the Gundog Essentials DVD, which is pure hunting skills for retrievers.









Golden Retriever sketch by Evan Graham

EvanG


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## gdgli

I am a book kind of guy. That being said, I really like the Smartworks books.


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## Swampcollie

The information in both the Smartwork series and Fowldawgs series are good, although the production and presentation in Smartwork is better. 

Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy is very very good but it does assume a certain level of experience on the part of the viewer. Many beginning trainers get confused with Lardy's stuff.


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## JoshNy

Thanks for the input so far everyone. 

Two books that I have, and read through several years ago, are:
Retriever Training: A Back-to-Basics Approach by Robert Milner
&
The 10-Minute Retriever: How to Make an Obedient and Enthusiastic Gun Dog in 10 Minutes a Day by John Dahl

Anyone read those and think they are good or should I leave them on the bookshelf?


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## FTGoldens

JoshNy,
I noticed that you have 55 posts, so this may not be news to you, but the best resource BY FAR is an experienced and successful mentor. I'm not talking about a pro, but instead an amateur that trains his or her own dogs (and trains them well). You can learn stuff from books and DVDs, but application is hands-on. It also allows for some post-performance evaluation ... i.e., "Why'd he do that?" sort of discussion. And the advice is specifically for YOUR DOG, not the one on the screen or described in a book.
With that said, as for the books you mentioned, Dahl's book is good, though fairly basic; Milner's book .. ehhh. Merten's "Sound Beginnings" is very good for puppies, regardless of what their purpose in life will be; Evan's materials are good with pretty thorough coverage; and Bill Hillman (who has been extraordinarily successful with creating outstanding Derby dogs) has put together a few DVDs demonstrating his slightly different methods.
And don't lose sight of the ultimate goal: Enjoy training your dog.
Have fun.
FTGoldens


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## JessCDoyle

FTGoldens said:


> JoshNy,
> I noticed that you have 55 posts, so this may not be news to you, but the best resource BY FAR is an experienced and successful mentor. I'm not talking about a pro, but instead an amateur that trains his or her own dogs (and trains them well). You can learn stuff from books and DVDs, but application is hands-on. It also allows for some post-performance evaluation ... i.e., "Why'd he do that?" sort of discussion. And the advice is specifically for YOUR DOG, not the one on the screen or described in a book.
> With that said, as for the books you mentioned, Dahl's book is good, though fairly basic; Milner's book .. ehhh. Merten's "Sound Beginnings" is very good for puppies, regardless of what their purpose in life will be; Evan's materials are good with pretty thorough coverage; and Bill Hillman (who has been extraordinarily successful with creating outstanding Derby dogs) has put together a few DVDs demonstrating his slightly different methods.
> And don't lose sight of the ultimate goal: Enjoy training your dog.
> Have fun.
> FTGoldens


Can I ask why Milner's book is "ehh"? I started reading it and began to enjoy it although I did notice a difference between that and another book that I picked up, "Retriever Puppy Training: The Right Start for Hunting"

I don't even want to consider myself to be a "beginner". I don't believe I've even made it that far yet, but field / hunting and having the dog do what it's been bred for to me is giving the best I can to make her happy. 
My boyfriend hasn't even picked up a gun yet! lol so it may be a long time before we can do it "for real", but it is a long term goal for us to get into it, and I think trying to learn as much as I can at an early stage (as Laika is only 5 months) doesn't hurt at all. I kind of want to see if we can even attempt a WC in the future.. gotta get my feet wet though!

I'm just trying to figure out the different methods it seems between aversion training and field training for WC tests compared to having a hunting companion where things like "popping" on a blind retrieve is okay. Why is this the case? Stupid question most likely so I apologize for my lack of knowledge on this..


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## sterregold

I have read the Milner book, and frankly, the way he approaches things is just not going to build as reliable consistent a dog, as I want my hunting companions to be. It may be sufficient for someone who is used to recovering unmarked birds using the old pocket-full-o-rocks method, but having now had dogs trained to a higher level (SH and MH), who show more consistency and reliability, that is what I want!! The Loveland book and the other systems mentioned all pretty much follow a Carr-based approach that does include force as well as reward-- there is a reason this approach is used so consistently in so many programs and by so many pros--it consistently builds reliable dogs for the demands of our tests and our hunting conditions. (I use the Loveland boook as my basics guide, but do not do the marble chapter...that takes more coordination than I have!!)

For JessCDoyle--I see you are in the Ottawa area. If you are not already in contact with the OVGRC you should be!! You are very fortunate to have a good number of very successful working Golden owners in your area--Pam Martin, Donna LaHaise and Susan Roberts are all members of that club, and all run dogs at the MH level. Their dogs have all been trained with this sort of program, and they are all happy enthusiastic workers (Susan has a boy from me, Baron, who has 3 CKC MH passes, and 2 AKC MH passes and he is not 3 yet...). The OVGRC is having its WC tests this weekend at Ambertrail, Ottawa Valley Golden Retriever Club - Owners, Breeders, and Fanciers and I am sure all of these ladies plus the rest of the Ottawa field crew will be there, and if you watch some of the dogs run, I am sure you will notice a difference in the quality of the performances.


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## JessCDoyle

sterregold said:


> For JessCDoyle--I see you are in the Ottawa area. If you are not already in contact with the OVGRC you should be!! You are very fortunate to have a good number of very successful working Golden owners in your area--Pam Martin, Donna LaHaise and Susan Roberts are all members of that club, and all run dogs at the MH level. Their dogs have all been trained with this sort of program, and they are all happy enthusiastic workers (Susan has a boy from me, Baron, who has 3 CKC MH passes, and 2 AKC MH passes and he is not 3 yet...). The OVGRC is having its WC tests this weekend at Ambertrail, Ottawa Valley Golden Retriever Club - Owners, Breeders, and Fanciers and I am sure all of these ladies plus the rest of the Ottawa field crew will be there, and if you watch some of the dogs run, I am sure you will notice a difference in the quality of the performances.


Sending you a PM!




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## Tatnall

Just to toss in a couple of my thoughts, FWIW.

I agree that "Sound Beginnings" is a must have for the early puppy stuff and Cherylon's is also a great start.

Beyond the puppy stuff, until you get to the very advanced stuff, the training you want to do is the same whether it is a gun dog, HT dog or FT dog, so the program you purchase is a good long term investment. I have gone through most or all of Stawski, Smartworks, Lardy and Hillmann. They are all fine but only Lardy and Smartworks are really complete programs for the whole dog. Hillmann will probably get there, but as of now he basically only has DVDs out through essentially early transition. So, between Lardy and Evan's program, it is a tough choice. Both are good and both work. Probably more folks are familiar with Lardy, but the big advantage with Evan's program is that he is around on this and other boards and always willing to answer questions or to help you with problems. Very helpful.

Also, I agree to toss Milner's stuff.


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## EvanG

JessCDoyle said:


> Can I ask why Milner's book is "ehh"? I started reading it and began to enjoy it although I did notice a difference between that and another book that I picked up, "Retriever Puppy Training: The Right Start for Hunting"


Milner's writing is enjoyable largely because he's more a writer than a trainer. The methodology is several decades dated, but there are some nice ideas.


JessCDoyle said:


> I'm just trying to figure out the different methods it seems between aversion training and field training for WC tests compared to having a hunting companion where things like "popping" on a blind retrieve is okay. Why is this the case? Stupid question most likely so I apologize for my lack of knowledge on this..


It's okay if your standards are low enough. It isn't necessary, not is it desirable. When you send your dog, do you want him going or stopping? He should go and continue to go until he reaches a bird, or you tell him to stop so you can handle him. Dogs don't pop because they're so confident!

How do you want your dog to operate in the field? Stylish, efficient? Use a more modern method, and be fair.






EvanG


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## JessCDoyle

EvanG said:


> Milner's writing is enjoyable largely because he's more a writer than a trainer. The methodology is several decades dated, but there are some nice ideas.It's okay if your standards are low enough. It isn't necessary, not is it desirable. When you send your dog, do you want him going or stopping? He should go and continue to go until he reaches a bird, or you tell him to stop so you can handle him. Dogs don't pop because they're so confident!
> 
> How do you want your dog to operate in the field? Stylish, efficient? Use a more modern method, and be fair.
> 
> Follow that gun project - YouTube
> 
> EvanG



Thank you for your response! You're correct; I probably got swept up in his writing. 

I went to watch the WC tests on Sunday as recommended and got to talk to a few people. It was easy to see who used FF and e-collar training compared to those who didn't. I do want an efficient dog for future hunting when the time comes, but I am hoping I can achieve a title as well so I will be looking for efficiency, confidence and style. 
Luckily for me my pup came with and it turns out she isn't gun shy at all from where she was sitting atleast! Definitely wanted to break her stay when she saw the ducks and dogs run. 

My obedience trainer hopefully has convinced Donna LaHaise to have a few workshops or training sessions during the winter until her spring class. Fingers crossed she will and I will attend. I've been advised to start working on her retrieves now as she is almost 6 months and focus on her obedience for the groundwork in the meantime. I don't want to get into FF and CC until I have someone with me.. Not that confident in myself even with DVDs and books! 

I completely jacked this thread from the OP. my apologies!


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## goldlover68

JoshNy said:


> I am not involved in field trials or hunt tests. Not to say I never will be, but my primary focus is a hunting companion.
> 
> I am looking at Evan G's Smartworks DVD set or basics set and wondering if it is right for me. These DVD's are quite expensive, but I understand they are well below the cost of hiring a professional trainer. Do the methods and teachings work for both real world hunting AND field trials or is their a better system, book, or techniques specifically for hunting only?
> 
> I am also looking at the Sound Beginnings DVD by Jack Mertins.
> 
> If you have any favorite books or links I would appreciate any recommendations as well.
> 
> Feel free to correct me if I am using the wrong terminology or other general "newbie" mistakes.
> 
> Thanks


I have used the Evan Graham "SmartWork" for training my Golden's for a few years. After researching a number of programs, this one was easier for me to follow, step by step...I have been very pleased with this program. I train primarily for hunting my Goldens, but also enjoy running hunt tests.


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## EvanG

You're from Ottawa, ON?

EvanG


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## JessCDoyle

EvanG said:


> You're from Ottawa, ON?
> 
> EvanG


That I am! 


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