# Pricing/breeder



## smp (Apr 27, 2016)

Not sure why they would be so far off if they are both truly offering the same service. Be sure to verify all the clearances, ask about health guarantees, etc. The best breeders I researched in the same area were between $1500 and $2500. The difference may just come down to supply/demand and if someone is trying to make a little more profit. They do have expenses between vet bills, feeding, medical clearances, etc. For me, ultimately I had to go with my gut a little bit even though there were cheaper options.


----------



## sandy bay (Jul 12, 2016)

I agree. I understand breeders have numerous expenses, but a $3,000 price tag through me for a loop.


----------



## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

$3,000 is extremely high. Even for a litter with well accomplished, titled parents. I would be suspicious. You may want to post the sire and dam of the litters so experienced members or breeders can see if there really is a difference between the two.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

sandy bay said:


> I agree. I understand breeders have numerous expenses, but a $3,000 price tag through me for a loop.


At that price I would be concerned you are paying for a cosmetic trait like color. If that is the case, be very skeptical of health certifications. It is very rare to see these niche exploitation breeders have health testing in order. It is sadly not uncommon to run into misinformation or lies around the health certifications. Have you been able to independently verify the health certifications for:

Hips (at or after 24 months)
Elbows (at or after 24 months)
Heart ( by a Cardiologist at or after 12 months)
Eyes (every year)


----------



## sandy bay (Jul 12, 2016)

Thank you for sharing your insight. The $3,000/$1,000 of it being a non refundable price tag would be for a future litter from Eldorado. This breeder has amazing references from this board, which I was using to justify the price.


----------



## Xlionesss (Jun 20, 2016)

sandy bay said:


> Thank you for sharing your insight. The $3,000/$1,000 of it being a non refundable price tag would be for a future litter from Eldorado. This breeder has amazing references from this board, which I was using to justify the price.





I have seen amazing reviews about Eldorado. I think its all in what you feel is fair. In my opinion, if you are comfortable with paying the price, go for it! I don't really think you can go wrong with her...


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I would say that in well-bred Golden puppies, 2000 is a lower end price in the NE and 3000 is a high end price. Breeders all set their own prices, sometimes because it is a surgical breeding from a frozen sire and plan a section- so that's a costly endeavor.

It could also be that they provide so much support after the go-home that they feel it warrants additional cost. Or they keep puppies an extra week and start the crate training. Or any number of other reasons.

There are breeders in FL who charge 3000, and they sell all their puppies apparently without any difficulty. The part of all of the increasing puppy cost that amazes me is stud dog fees have remained pretty much stagnant for the last 10 years! Most stud dogs get no where near the price of a puppy, while in say the early 90's and before it was common to charge the price of a pup.


----------



## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Maybe an exceptional pedigree warrants the higher price, it's hard to judge. If you think the price is fair for what you're getting, you'd rather have a puppy from that breeding and prefer El Dorado, I'd go with them. If you only really want a family pet and the other breeder is also reputable and just as likely to produce a healthy, well tempered companion, you would be just as well off with a pup from that breeder.


----------



## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

I would really like to know the pedigree that's going for $3K. $2500 in this area isn't unheard of, but please review the pedigree & accomplishments. Please go out & visit the breeder, see where/how the dogs are kept/pups raised. I know depending on if there is a litter on the ground might preclude visits at certain times, but please do inquire.

Eta D'Oro is having 2 upcoming litters this Summer, highly recommend check her out.


----------



## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

ArchersMom said:


> $3,000 is extremely high. Even for a litter with well accomplished, titled parents. I would be suspicious. You may want to post the sire and dam of the litters so experienced members or breeders can see if there really is a difference between the two.


I think sometimes excellent breeders who title their bitch and do thorough clearances raise prices when they see like a pet bitch bred to a local CH dog go for 2500 etc or a doodle old for 3000- same "rare English creme. They feel "hey that is not fair". I deliberately thought this through to keep my price lower, even though it ends up I might sell a GCH x GCH pup with great clearances for way less then the pet litter down the road bc I don't want to price out down- to - earth wonderful local Maine homes out of puppies. I understand the frustration though.


----------



## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Too often it seems that price does not equate to quality. Oregon is a bit cheaper for a well bred pup than some other places. You could see a really nice CH/CH litter sell for $2,000 or so. $3,000 would have to be exceptional. But there are also plenty of backyard breeders charging upwards of $3,000-$3,500 for their "Creme" imports. Often if the price is over $2,500 I discover that it's a backyard breeder marking up price because of color, not because they do anything at all with their dogs.


----------



## sandy bay (Jul 12, 2016)

*I get that*



Ljilly28 said:


> I think sometimes excellent breeders who title their bitch and do thorough clearances raise prices when they see like a pet bitch bred to a local CH dog go for 2500 etc or a doodle old for 3000- same "rare English creme. They feel "hey that is not fair". I deliberately thought this through to keep my price lower, even though it ends up I might sell a GCH x GCH pup with great clearances for way less then the pet litter down the road bc I don't want to price out down- to - earth wonderful local Maine homes out of puppies. I understand the frustration though.


Thank you for your insight. It makes total sense. 

On another note, I was just looking at your website off of a few recommendations on this forum. My family and I spend our summer/winter breaks in Maine, and it finally dawned on me that I should start looking at breeders there!


----------



## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Personally for me to pay that price for a golden it would have to be a special pedigree with big titles that would really demand a larger than normal price. I can get an obedience breeding from highly titled dogs and breeders who do everything right, for half that price. 

But it comes down to what you're comfortable with and what you really want.


----------



## smp (Apr 27, 2016)

Ljilly28 said:


> I think sometimes excellent breeders who title their bitch and do thorough clearances raise prices when they see like a pet bitch bred to a local CH dog go for 2500 etc or a doodle old for 3000- same "rare English creme. They feel "hey that is not fair". I deliberately thought this through to keep my price lower, even though it ends up I might sell a GCH x GCH pup with great clearances for way less then the pet litter down the road bc I don't want to price out down- to - earth wonderful local Maine homes out of puppies. I understand the frustration though.




I wish I had found you when we were doing our search!! You seem to be a "rare breed" among breeders. If I can muster up the courage for another golden after surviving puppyhood again, I'll have to start planning drives to Maine!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NicoleGold (Dec 8, 2015)

There are several breeders in the greater DC area that sell their puppies for 2800+ that are well known, reputable breeders I would recommend for people looking for a pet. Unfortunately, everything in this area is much more expensive then other areas of the country....


----------



## Keven (Feb 22, 2015)

I don't know anything about coloration upcharges, so can offer no insight there. I'm into "the redder, the better" retriever sporting games. 

I always expect to pay more for parents "proven" of accomplishments. I'll be happy to chunk in another $1,000-$1,500 on a dog with highly titled field parentS and strong pedigree. I capitalize the "s" cause I want both parents proven to titles. I'm from the school that mamma's actually more important than daddy. You are "investing" in a pup that's going to be easier to train (theory but it does tend to mesh into reality) - that's going to save you time, energy and money on the training end. The breeder(s) have put lots into production of these litters - they have invested more. Naturally, stud fees are higher - all health tests are done, etc. They know what it took to get there and put lots into raising their litters as they realize the distance of each progeny is a reflection on their dogs and breeding program. Most highly titled females will just have one or two litters in her lifetime - because between them, she's training, running and competing herself. Want to know why there are fewer FC/AFC and MNH/GRHRCH females than males? Simple - heat cycles. They can't compete while in heat. You can "go out" in the parking lot during bitch check and have yet to even run one single event. Been there - done that: at both a Grand and Master National. 

The most I've paid for a pup is $4,500. It was a lab and both his sire and dam were National Amateur Field Champions. Breedings like that are rare and expect to pay premium for them IF you can even luck on to the list. Course that was a few years ago and I'm sure that price has gone up since.

I'm not even going to say what I'd pay for a golden pup out of two National or National Amateur Field Champions - I just hope that one day I'm afforded to even have the opportunity to meet one. Wouldn't that be awesome? 

You may not find exactly what you are looking for in a litter close to home. Lots of people have pups flown in or fly out to get them. Trustworthy alternatives are available: people and services that drive pups and dogs anywhere in the country they need to go. This is a more affordable opinion than one might think. I know I was pleasantly surprised when I needed to get one home from the trainer in Wisconsin to me in Texas.

We all have our own gauges - these are just mine. Thank all who have shared theirs.


----------



## SEileen (Jan 16, 2017)

Ljilly28, you are clearly a very thoughtful, reputable individual which I am sure shows in your breeding practices as well. Finding the perfect match for a breeder is a tricky process, it's refreshing to see how helpful you are to individuals navigating this forum for the first time.


----------



## JMC62 (Jul 12, 2017)

We paid Chris Browning of Eldorado Goldens $2800 for our puppy we adopted in August of last year. Please beware as she claims parents are OFA certified but in her contract she doesn't warrant against hip dysphasia and she doesn't tell you that inadvance. Our puppy was less than one year old when diagnosed by VCA South Paws orthopedist with hip dysphasia and she is trying to blame us for the problem. We owned two goldens that lived to 12 and 14 with no problems with hips. I would not own another one of her dogs, although beautiful and with sweetest disposition, she clearly does not stand behind the quality of her breeding.


----------



## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

JMC62 said:


> We paid Chris Browning of Eldorado Goldens $2800 for our puppy we adopted in August of last year. Please beware as she claims parents are OFA certified but in her contract she doesn't warrant against hip dysphasia and she doesn't tell you that inadvance. Our puppy was less than one year old when diagnosed by VCA South Paws orthopedist with hip dysphasia and she is trying to blame us for the problem. We owned two goldens that lived to 12 and 14 with no problems with hips. I would not own another one of her dogs, although beautiful and with sweetest disposition, she clearly does not stand behind the quality of her breeding.



What does the contract say?


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

JMC62 said:


> We paid Chris Browning of Eldorado Goldens $2800 for our puppy we adopted in August of last year. Please beware as she claims parents are OFA certified but in her contract she doesn't warrant against hip dysphasia and she doesn't tell you that inadvance. Our puppy was less than one year old when diagnosed by VCA South Paws orthopedist with hip dysphasia and she is trying to blame us for the problem. We owned two goldens that lived to 12 and 14 with no problems with hips. I would not own another one of her dogs, although beautiful and with sweetest disposition, she clearly does not stand behind the quality of her breeding.


What language is in the contract re: hips/elbows?
OFA clearances does not guarantee a puppy will not have a problem- but it does reduce your risk considerably. I know of two OFA Excellent parents who produced a puppy that is borderline at 2YO. 
How is she trying to blame you? Because environment does have a role in it. Could you post the radiographs so we can see what the VCA folks are calling HD? Not that I am suggesting they are misleading, but sometimes a dog person can see a problem w the rads that would translate to a better outcome if OFA looked at and rated the films. Either way, I am sorry for your dog's diagnosis and your worry around it. Try to get a digital copy and post it.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

My older boy's breeder had a fit when she saw the original xrays that my regular vet did. 

My dog has hip dysplasia, but not as bad as the xrays made them look. 

I had to redo and send in to OFA - but even there, it did not really mean that much since I was not going to neuter my dog and return him. 

This breed is prone to hip and elbow dysplasia. That's why we do all the clearances that we do every generation. It's supposed to stack things in your favor so you do not have really horrendous results with your dog. 

I agree with Robin though - would be interesting to see the xrays. Maybe people can point you in the right direction as well depending on how bad they look.


----------



## JMC62 (Jul 12, 2017)

*Lesson learned*

Learned my lesson will never sign another contract that doesn't provide protection against hip dysphasia. She seemed very reputable so took a chance. Luckily we caught it when he was less than a year old so working with orthopedic veterinarian can take steps now to prolong his life. My personal opinion is the reason you spend that much is too avoid these problems. If she were reputable would not hesitate to stand by dogs regardless of what the contract says. Again lesson learned on my part.


----------



## JMC62 (Jul 12, 2017)

Unfortunately don't have digital copy of X-rays but had him evaluated by 3 independent veterinarians. I hear what you are saying about the X-rays though. Although he was sedated angle was still a little off but basically all that did was make the right side look a little worse but made the left side look better than it is. Also after talking with orthoprdist signs were there a early as six months but regular veterinarian missed them. It was actually our dog sitter that noticed and brought to our attention. We adore him, he is such a sweetheart I could never give him back.


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

JMC62 said:


> Learned my lesson will never sign another contract that doesn't provide protection against hip dysphasia.


I will wish you luck in finding that. Most responsible hobby breeders I know offer no warranty on Dysplasia a stud they are doing everything possible in testing and breeding decisions that can be done. 

I know a lot of less than reputable breeders do offer replacement options that require the return of the affected dog with the hopes you will be too attached to use it. 

I don't think what you wanted as far as guarantee of a perfect dog or paying all the bills really does exist anywhere.


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

When both parents have clearances, and there is not an obvious trend to dysplasia in the pedigree, it could just as well be environmental. I know it feels like there should be some sort of warranty but on something like hips or elbows, that would be akin to being the same as a toaster or something that works because it's made to work. But living things like dogs can have reasons for a body part failure that have nothing to do with genetics.... on the other hand, I feel like something like SAS should absolutely be warranted, since it is always found early and should be heard as a loud murmur before puppy ever goes home. But there is no telling whether your puppy in another home would ever have been symptomatic. And if you weren't able to send the films or pictures of them to her, and our accepted expert, OFA, was not the vet or vets evaluating, I understand her reluctance to reimburse you. I've seen films that a vet would say would pass that were awful, and vice versa- said they were awful when they really were probably Goods. It's not their specialty. Very little time is devoted to reading rads in vet school.


----------



## TwoPawsOn (May 9, 2017)

*Hip dysplasia, review of facts, from AKC*

I agree with several others here who have a broader knowledge of the current state of breeding and guarantees.
The national average incidence of hip dysplasia in Goldens in the US, per the Orthopedic Foundation of America (OFA) data, is 25%. In researching many of that breeder's dogs on the OFA and K9data.com sites, I can trace back 5 generations with good hip data. That is the best you can do on the heredity/nature research. But that is only part of the story. There is a good, current overview dated May 31, 2017 on the AKC website about the _many_ things that impact joint development, that being the issue with hip dysplasia. The growth plates (ends of bones) in Goldens do not fuse until 12-18 months. Puppies are still forming their adult bones and joints until 12-18 months! This is why breeders warn about watching weight, exercise, joint trauma (stairs, on and off the couch, jumping in and out of cars), food choices, and supplements. You can treat the puppy safely, with good heredity and tip the scales towards a good outcome. You can also not keep the puppy "four on the floor", not feed it the advised diet, let it get "just a little round" and push that good heredity towards bad joint development starting when you take it home at 2 months.
All of us are a mix of nature and nurture. Unfortunately "nurture" is not something a breeder can have impact on once the puppy leaves their care, so, as Prism Goldens points out, a guarantee is not feasible.
I am sad for your puppy and hope that with the many orthopedic choices and awesome PT available that your puppy lives a long and comfortable life


----------



## Mlreed14 (Sep 2, 2017)

POINTS OF CLARIFICATION FROM AN OWNER OF ONE OF ELDORADO GOLDENS PUPPIES:
1. No breeder, regardless of the success of their breeding program, can or will "guarantee" that any particular puppy will not have hip dysplasia or cancer.
2. Chris Browning's breeding program is among the most highly regarded in the Golden Retriever community.
3. Regarding your allegation that Ms. Browning does not "stand behind" her puppies, this Forum should know that she specifically offered to take your puppy back and refund your purchase price. You declined.
4. You should think twice about disparaging a breeder with an exceptional history like hers. Obviously you must have undertaken extensive research in choosing Eldorado Goldens as your breeder of choice before your purchase.


----------



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I just had PennHips done on my dog last week, still waiting for the OFA results. This is the first time I have had PennHips done, they gave me the numbers, which at first were hard to comprehend because I was used to seeing Excellent, Good, Fair. They showed no osteoarthritis. What scared the heck out of me was they said his numbers, which I now know are good, and much better than average, is that he is "low risk" which means there is no 100 percent guarantee that he will NOT have hip problems they said at age 6 or above. So even though the odds are stacked towards the positive, there is no guarantee.


----------



## JMC62 (Jul 12, 2017)

I don't know who you are but your facts are incorrect. Chris never offered to do anything. If she is as reputable as you imply than she needs to contact every owner who has a puppy in which Glory B or Brooks is the parent and let them know this has occurred so they can get an early diagnosis. In fact it can be diagnosed as early as 6 months. There are some options based on age of dog so early diagnosis is key. 
I appreciate others advice on the issue but the fact is our puppy was examined by 3 independent veterinarians. One is a board certified orthopedist who Chris could have spoken to but refused to schedule a consultantation. I know this because his assistant called me and let me know Chris refused and was going to tell me he wouldn't speak with her. This is exactly what she did, she misrepresented her conversation with the assistant. The bottom line is our puppy was less than a year old when diagnosed by 3 separate veterinarians. I adore my dog and would never return him. If I had known earlier there would have been other options but he was too old for some and the poor condition of his hips now only makes him eligible for total hip replacement. We will be watching him carefully and following our Orthopedist advice if this becomes necessary. Again if you have a puppy they has Glory B or Brooks as one or both parents have the checked now so if there is a problem they can get early treatment! Don't let a anyone tell you it can't be diagnosed before the dog is 2, that is incorrect. Good Luck!


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Just for your own peace of mind- and also so if you would like a way to leave a permanent record, you should submit to OFA his films. There's no way one of the three did not make a digital record of his films and this is a good way to get the accepted experts' opinion on his hips. It would cost you $30. 
Environment plays largely into dysplasia. However, here is GloryB's OFA page: http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1647416#animal 
and here is Brooks' page: http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1506625#animal and you can see that she (when bred to him) did produce a severely dysplastic puppy- whose owner did have it eval'd and listed on OFA which is the only real way to leave a record for others to see and consider when choosing a stud dog OR a puppy.


----------



## Sedona515 (2 mo ago)

Prism Goldens said:


> Just for your own peace of mind- and also so if you would like a way to leave a permanent record, you should submit to OFA his films. There's no way one of the three did not make a digital record of his films and this is a good way to get the accepted experts' opinion on his hips. It would cost you $30.
> Environment plays largely into dysplasia. However, here is GloryB's OFA page: http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1647416#animal
> and here is Brooks' page: http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1506625#animal and you can see that she (when bred to him) did produce a severely dysplastic puppy- whose owner did have it eval'd and listed on OFA which is the only real way to leave a record for others to see and consider when choosing a stud dog OR a puppy.


We adopted Glory. I can tell you that she personally did not have any issues with her hips. She had other medical problems, but her hips were fine.


----------

