# A question for trainers who have dealt with dog reactive dogs



## sameli102 (Aug 23, 2009)

I should state too that what I am doing at this point when he gets too close to another dog is to call his attention to me and treat him and walk elsewhere allowing for more space. He comes away very easily though he really does want to smell them. He does not just lunge out at them.

Also the class instructor suggested letting him meet the dog and smell from behind when possible and he is fine with that, he just does not like it when they get in his face.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

These are really fabulous questions, you've obviously researched and thought about this and seeing Pat Miller will be very helpful. I've not had the pleasure of meeting her/seeing her speak, but she's written some really great information pieces for pet owners and professionals. 

1) Neutering may improve his interactions with other dogs. It might not. Good experiences may improve, bad ones will definitely make it worse. Keep in mind, testosterone levels are MUCH higher in young intact males than in adult intact males. Some sources even report that it's higher in altered young males than intact adult males.
2) Not all dogs need to have dog-dog interaction. It tends to make us feel better than it necessarily does for dogs. As he's great working when other dogs are near... I wouldn't be too concerned about it and I would be okay leaving him intact longer if he was my dog. Avoid interactions with other dogs. If you ever decide to get him around others again... get help from Pat Miller or other professionals. Often, the process involves muzzles (just in case) and having the dog around an -adult- dog that plays well and has a history of playing with other dogs who are not family. A big mistake many people make is having puppies play with other puppies who might not be good at play, having them play with adults who don't play well, or having them around dogs that don't have a history of being good around a lot of other dogs.
3) I would remove squeaky toys from hour household. I would take away any food toys that make him get over aroused. Try a few different types. Or just dispense food from your treat pouch when he's quiet. Or invest in a Manners Minder and train a REALLY strong mat behavior ( I LOVE that tool!).
4) He MAY Be a good therapy candidate when he grows up more. Don't count that out yet, but don't get your hopes too high. Think about teaching him competition obedience (pat miller teaches that sort of thing...if you're close enough for regular training) or agility (ask her for a recommendation, some facilities are better than others). Lots of self control type activities. You migth enjoy the book _Control Unleashed_
5) I would NOT get another dog until he is several years old. He's still a puppy, still needs lots of work. And in 12-15 years you don't want to have two senior dogs....that can be heartbreaking! You might want to consider adopting an adult dog.... many rescues will have seniors that are harder to place b ut may be GREAT for therapy work! To some extent, getting a puppy is a gamble... getting an adult would greatly increase your chances of doing therapy work.
6) What types of settings has he shown discomfort/"aggression" towards other dogs?


Keep up the great work, it sounds like you are doing a LOT of very great things to help him!


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## HovawartMom (Aug 10, 2006)

My 1st question is how much exercise,does he get?.
It sounds like he is under-exercised and is not mentally stimulated,enough(ie:needs a job like: obedience,flyball or agility)!.My golden was exercise,a good 2 hrs a day and when I didn't have time,I would bicycle her!.She,also,swam,a lot.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I have some experience with dog reactive dogs - one of my own and a few from classes I used to teach.

First, please realize that nose to nose contact is a confrontational move to many dogs - step between your dog and the approaching dog if the other dog's handler is allowing the approach.

Let the instructor of the class know that you are not willing to allow another dog to confront your dog and work very hard at maintaining attention - both Parker to you, and you to Parker. You may need to become a Pez dispenser the first few times, but it will pay you back hadsomely. Ignore everyone else, including the instructor if need be - the instructor should understand. If you need to pay attention to anything other than Parketr, put him in a crate.

For groups, I generally have the reactive dogs at a further distance and then gradually they are worked within the group. Other students are also warned to not let their dogs get too close - not that the reactive dog is bad but that the dog needs more space that their own dogs might need.

With my dog who was reactive, it was learned from being attacked at agility trials and a thyroid problem. I became very vigilant about where other dogs were and their body language since my golden is a 'slinky' mover and seemed to set off Border Collies.
He began to trust that I would always step in and relaxed after awhile but the snarkiness popped up again when he needed thyroid med adjustments and some dental work done, so if your dog is prone to reactiveness, it requires a lifetime of vigilance - worth it for sure, but you can never take other dogs for granted,

BTW: Casey is an awesome therapy dog - loves people and even as a youngster put on his gentleman's hat - the residents would line up at the windows when he was expected and badger the staff for their floor to be first 

Good luck


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I should have also mentioned that when Parker is starting to get stressed you can try yawning and/or slowly blinking; kind of like a sleepy eyed kid trying to stay up past his bedtime.


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## sameli102 (Aug 23, 2009)

Thank you all so much for your comments. I am trying to gain as much information about the situation prior to my appointment with Pat Thursday in case it will help me think of any questions or thoughts to bring up.

I'm curious to see others comments on the neutering because so many people act horrified that he is still intact. I would love to hold off another 5 months.



RedDogs said:


> These are really fabulous questions, you've obviously researched and thought about this and seeing Pat Miller will be very helpful. I've not had the pleasure of meeting her/seeing her speak, but she's written some really great information pieces for pet owners and professionals.
> 
> 1) Neutering may improve his interactions with other dogs. It might not. Good experiences may improve, bad ones will definitely make it worse. Keep in mind, testosterone levels are MUCH higher in young intact males than in adult intact males. Some sources even report that it's higher in altered young males than intact adult males.
> 2) Not all dogs need to have dog-dog interaction. It tends to make us feel better than it necessarily does for dogs. As he's great working when other dogs are near... I wouldn't be too concerned about it and I would be okay leaving him intact longer if he was my dog. Avoid interactions with other dogs. If you ever decide to get him around others again... get help from Pat Miller or other professionals. Often, the process involves muzzles (just in case) and having the dog around an -adult- dog that plays well and has a history of playing with other dogs who are not family. A big mistake many people make is having puppies play with other puppies who might not be good at play, having them play with adults who don't play well, or having them around dogs that don't have a history of being good around a lot of other dogs.
> ...


What is a manners minder? I am more than happy to invest whatever I need to help him through this. I feel like I have done something wrong somewhere but the fact is he showed this behavior as early as about 10-12 wks and nothing bad had ever happened to him. My daughter brought her lab puppy over and he got all cocky with her puppy when they first got together. Before anyone could even think to do anything it was over and they were both romping and playing like best friends. We went through this each time they got together. Parker acted mean then they played great. Her puppy is very friendly, maybe more than Parker cared for, I don't know. Then he started good manners class at 7 months at Pat Millers school. I explained his behavior to the instructor and she allowed him to play loose for social time _after_ the lesson. By that time he was used to the other dogs being there and he was somewhat tired. They said to leave leashes on but let the dogs loose, so they'd be easy to get if there were a problem. I was very nervous doing this but it worked. The 6 dogs sniffed, ran, romped and played great. After a few minutes we were told to remove the leashes and let them play. Parker was wonderful, he played about 5 minutes and he got bored and trotted around the room checking out all the tables and anything else he could find. The instructor said his body language did not indicate aggression even though it wasn't your typical 'hey let me smell you' attitude.
Around 9 or 10 months of age I was on a neighborhood walk and came across a large black lab loose, his owner was at the mailbox. I just cringed because I had no idea what would take place. Naturally this dog came slowly trotting toward us so I just stopped. He came over and gave Parker a good sniffing over and amazingly to me he did not react other than to sniff back until his owner came over and got him. I'm wondering if it is because they were both nose to rear instead of nose to nose and the lab was not hyper acting. Another day we came across a young female pit bull loose and wanting to approach us. I kept stomping her away telling her to go home but she kept coming back. Parker was ok, just extremely hard to handle,he was pulling and tugging on the leash dreadfully, trying to check her out. He does not lunge, bark and growl in cases like this. However, if the dog had been allowed to come up to him I don't know. 

So far my problems have been in classes where so much is going on and many dogs are on edge. He hates my daughters lab every time he is re-introduced but it only lasts a minute or so then they have a ball. I don't know whether that is doing more good than harm. I'm wondering if we took a walk together first then let them play it would be different. If I remember correctly when they were here at Christmas I crated them both fairly close to each other for a while first then let them together and they were fine. It is only the introduction that sets him off.



golden&hovawart said:


> My 1st question is how much exercise,does he get?.
> It sounds like he is under-exercised and is not mentally stimulated,enough(ie:needs a job like: obedience,flyball or agility)!.My golden was exercise,a good 2 hrs a day and when I didn't have time,I would bicycle her!.She,also,swam,a lot.


Parker gets daily walks, short training sessions, ball chasing and occasional trips to swim. In between he and my other dog go out and run and chase and romp about 10 times a day throughout. I don't work so he is only crated for short times when I just need him out from under foot. I would love to bicycle him but I would be petrified that he would send me flying, how do you keep them from pulling you over? I've seen the bars that hook to the back wheel but worry that he'd pull it right out from under me. We have a perfect rail trail that is 10 miles long if I could get that to work.



Sunrise said:


> I have some experience with dog reactive dogs - one of my own and a few from classes I used to teach.
> 
> First, please realize that nose to nose contact is a confrontational move to many dogs - step between your dog and the approaching dog if the other dog's handler is allowing the approach.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I will continue trying to keep him away from others and his attention on me. He does well passing by very close to the others as long as I am keeping his attention. It's not as though if one were to bump into him he would go off, it is strictly the nose to nose so far, I just want to keep it from getting out of hand.

Regardless, just typing this and thinking about the episodes has been good for me to think more about each confrontation. I appreciate all of your help, so sorry this is so long but hopefully someone else that may have similar issues can learn some things to change or avoid!


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Sunrise and a few others will be letting me work with Shadow on this very issue in a week or two. I have found a way to redirect his attention to me when other dogs are misbehaving. I'll let the trainers give their advice and keep you posted on how things go when we meet up with the others. I know how disappointing this behavior can be...

About the bumping...I never thought Shadow would get upset with a dog that bumped him. Tucker bumped him and Shadow nailed him. Shadow thought it was another dog. We met up with two other Goldens. I will never put Shadow in a situation where he is uncomfortable and have Tucker too close. Tucker and Shadow have never had an issue. Not even with Marrow Bones or Bully Sticks.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Pat Miller is awesome. She will definitely be able to help you!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

You might find the book 'Calming Signals' helpful too - the dogs you mentioned above may have not approached directly (curved approach), may have avoided eye contact, their tails may have been in a neutral position etc. Here is a link that partially details the signals
http://www.canis.no/rugaas/onearticle.php?artid=1

Dogs' body language is amazing


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

One of hte other body language books might be a bit more helpful, _Calming signals_ is getting to be a little outdated in some ways.

A manners minder is a remote treat dispenser... Pat probably has one! It's really great for teaching relaxation behaviors at home and for dispensing kibbles while you are doing smething else. Instead of being aroused and excited with his toy, he would be learning to be calm and still to get food out. 

Another quiet way to feed him would be to toss kibbles in the grass outside and let him sniff and find them. He would likely be less aroused than with the kibble toys.

I would talk to Pat about your concerns and how to address your anxiety. It can be really hard for -us- with dogs like this, but sometimes our behavior can make things worse or we can inadvertently teach the dog cues to look around and get worried. Specifically ask her about what you can do to help you stay calm. 

We're here for you!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

RedDogs said:


> One of hte other body language books might be a bit more helpful, _Calming signals_ is getting to be a little outdated in some ways.


Perhaps you can share some of the more up to date titles that you would recommend?


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## turtle66 (Feb 19, 2010)

I loved Pat Miller's book: Power of positive dog training. I am actually a little jealous that you are able to meet Pat Miller for a private behavioral consultation. 
I also do love
Brenda Aloff's: "Canine body language" (very helpful with lots of pictures to find out your dogs and the other dog's mood...).

All the best,
Heike

I am not a trainer - just a first dog owner trying to make everything right.....


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## sameli102 (Aug 23, 2009)

Kimm said:


> Sunrise and a few others will be letting me work with Shadow on this very issue in a week or two. I have found a way to redirect his attention to me when other dogs are misbehaving. I'll let the trainers give their advice and keep you posted on how things go when we meet up with the others. I know how disappointing this behavior can be...
> 
> About the bumping...I never thought Shadow would get upset with a dog that bumped him. Tucker bumped him and Shadow nailed him. Shadow thought it was another dog. We met up with two other Goldens. I will never put Shadow in a situation where he is uncomfortable and have Tucker too close. Tucker and Shadow have never had an issue. Not even with Marrow Bones or Bully Sticks.


Is Shadow your dog? I would love to hear about how your work with him goes. I felt like Parker did spectacular in class tonight considering I didn't even want to take him after last week. He kept his attention on me nicely. Now and then he jerked me over to check out another dog but it wasn't in an aggressive manner, he just seemed interested in them but I was able to attract him back without commotion.
Seems like last week it was just an effort getting in the doors, it was so hot and so many people were standing right inside the entrance with their dogs just asking for a fight to break out. I feel very hopeful that we'll work through this.


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## sameli102 (Aug 23, 2009)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Pat Miller is awesome. She will definitely be able to help you!


I have heard she is, have you met her? I live just 15 minutes from her farm/training school and am looking very much forward to meeting with her.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Unfortunately I can't be too helpful....I've been learning more about this from speakers than books in recent years. I need to get back to reading!

The one I recommended for years was the Brenda Aloff "Photographic Guide to Canine Body Language" but I've been told the Barbara Handleman one is more accurate and more up to date.

here's a listing from dogwise on body language: http://www.dogwise.com/search.cfm

The issue with _Calming Signals_ is that it groups together conflict behaviors ("normal behaviors exhibited out of context") and appeasement behaviors ("deference/submisive behaviors") when these need to be considered as two types, both displaying stress, but the appeasement behaviors given to increase distance between teh dog and potential threat. There's no solid knowledge that dogs ----intentionally---- use conflict behaviors to defuse a situation nor is there evidence that it's effective when we do.

That said, it did make me start to look at body language when I first read it. Unfortunately I'm still struggling to fully understand the minute differences between different types of body cues!


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## sameli102 (Aug 23, 2009)

Sunrise said:


> You might find the book 'Calming Signals' helpful too - the dogs you mentioned above may have not approached directly (curved approach), may have avoided eye contact, their tails may have been in a neutral position etc. Here is a link that partially details the signals
> http://www.canis.no/rugaas/onearticle.php?artid=1
> Dogs' body language is amazing


Thanks for that, I have never heard of the calming signals, very interesting!!


RedDogs said:


> One of hte other body language books might be a bit more helpful, _Calming signals_ is getting to be a little outdated in some ways.
> 
> A manners minder is a remote treat dispenser... Pat probably has one! It's really great for teaching relaxation behaviors at home and for dispensing kibbles while you are doing smething else. Instead of being aroused and excited with his toy, he would be learning to be calm and still to get food out.
> 
> ...


Thank you, I had to fill out a VERY detailed form to email back to Pat for her to read ahead and I will continue to write down some notes. Thanks for the great ideas. I'm sure there are things I do that send him wrong signals and hopefully she will point that out to me.



turtle66 said:


> I loved Pat Miller's book: Power of positive dog training. I am actually a little jealous that you are able to meet Pat Miller for a private behavioral consultation.
> I also do love
> Brenda Aloff's: "Canine body language" (very helpful with lots of pictures to find out your dogs and the other dog's mood...).
> 
> ...


With having such a well known successful trainer practically in my back yard I'd be silly not to go to her for help! I would love to work there!!! Thanks for the ideas, I'm going out of town for a week and I plan to load up my kindle for Ipod with lots of good reading.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

sameli102 said:


> Is Shadow your dog? I would love to hear about how your work with him goes. I felt like Parker did spectacular in class tonight considering I didn't even want to take him after last week. He kept his attention on me nicely. Now and then he jerked me over to check out another dog but it wasn't in an aggressive manner, he just seemed interested in them but I was able to attract him back without commotion.
> Seems like last week it was just an effort getting in the doors, it was so hot and so many people were standing right inside the entrance with their dogs just asking for a fight to break out. I feel very hopeful that we'll work through this.


Yes, Shadow is one of my Goldens. I feel comfortable bringing him to the training session because I saw how they work the dogs. I made sure I watched them first. I really enjoyed myself and their dogs. It's an ideal situation to work with him and those who will be there are aware of what we will be working on. I will probably work with Tucker and my husband will work with Shadow. I sometimes wonder if I'm not part of the problem. We shall see...


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

sameli102 said:


> I have heard she is, have you met her? I live just 15 minutes from her farm/training school and am looking very much forward to meeting with her.


We've not actually met, but I know *of* her from the training world. She's also the training editor for Whole Dog Journal and I'm a regular contributor to the pub. Oh, and we're FB friends and chat that way every now and again.


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## 2golddogs (Oct 19, 2009)

I look forward to hearing how your session goes with Pat. I also live about 20 minutes away and am thinking of signing up for an upcoming seminar she is giving. It doesn't sound like Parker is an aggressive dog but a very social dog that wants to check everyone out. Jackson, also still an intact male, acted very much the same until about 15 months old when I noticed his behavior changed. One week he was crazy and pulling to get to other dogs and the next week he was a different dog. I also signed him up for a second obedience class in Leesburg that was an advance obedience/CGC prep class, so we were training at 2 different facilities with different dogs 2 nights a week for 7 weeks. I think that really helped Jackson become more calm when meeting new dogs and I think the main change was that I finally started gaining more confidence and am not as nervous as I once was. I really do believe that Jackson was feeding off my nervousness and that sure didn't help. We'll be getting him neutered in a couple weeks when he's 18 months old.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Neutering doesn't _necessarily_ always help, because in most cases it is a fear or aggressive behavior thing. Supposedly neutering a dog will help tame the aggression, and sometimes it does, but that isn't always the case. Especially if the dog is neutered too late or the owner failed to notice the warning signs when the puppy was 3-5 months old and trained the puppy then.

Our collie is that type of dog, and he is most definitely neutered. He doesn't bark at dogs he knows, but if he sees, hears, or smells any strange dogs, he immediately starts barking and won't turn his back on them. He will most definitely challenge strange dogs and try pinning them. Before we adopted him, he was at a home where some of the other dogs roughed him up quite a bit.

I also know of three neutered male dogs I attend class with (Belgian Tuveran, Springer Spaniel, and a Bernese MD) who will not let any strange dogs get too close to them or their owner. They will growl, and if that doesn't have any effect, they will start snarling. I don't know their stories, but definitely I do my best to keep my dog away.

One thing you can do - if your dog is aggressive or unpredictable around other dogs, don't let him loose around other dogs. Keep him on leash. Watch him. If other people try bringing their dogs too close, warn them. 

And don't let him get away with poor behavior. You see him starting to stiffen up and LOOK at another dog, distract him. If he growls, correct him. 

You can neuter your dog - it may stop some behaviors or calm your dog down somewhat. But you do need to train your dog out of the behavior and take precautions. 

For example, if your dog is likely to attack other dogs, please keep him on leash and don't leave him unattended in your yard. My sister's dog has been attacked multiple times by a lab in her neighborhood. One of those times, the dog escaped the yard and ran all the way down the street to get at my sister's dog. This dog is definitely neutered.

@prey behavior - I kinda think it depends. You could hone his hunting instincts by taking him to retrieve classes. These are a lot of fun if you have the right kind of dog, and the training does come in handy in the home even if you don't intend to go into field trials or take your dog hunting. It could come down to sending your dog anywhere in the house to retrieve an article. Or if your dog is like mine, it could mean sending him outside to go bring his toys in from the yard. It gives your dog a job. Teach your dog to 'trade' too, especially if he gets too worked up with his toys. If you work on this enough, you will have a dog who will spit or give whatever he has in his mouth to get a 'much better' treat (and you can trick the dog into thinking that a rare piece of bread or slice of lunchmeat is a much better treat than a pork chop bone).


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## jimla (Oct 9, 2008)

I am following this thread with great interest because Roxy is reactive to other dogs face to face also. We go to off-leash play class with a trainer once a month which has helped a lot. I praise her for greeting other dogs without reacting. She has a high prey drive as well. A great book on managing prey drive is "Chase" by Clarissa von Reinhardt.


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## sameli102 (Aug 23, 2009)

We had our meeting with Pat yesterday, she is very knowledgeable and very professional. She spent a great deal of time with us and gave me some solutions to work toward. I am going to work on these exercises diligently for several weeks and schedule a follow up with her to see how we have progressed. She pointed out many things about Parker that I had never noticed and confirmed many of my concerns about him. She went over so much in such great detail that it would be impossible to mention it all and my head is still swimming trying to put it all in place. 
I will be keeping a log and report back on what we have done and what seemed to help the most as I get a better handle on it all.

For anyone having any concerns about a behavior I strongly suggest at least one visit with a reputable trainer, it is so worth the time and money. They see and point out so many things that you never even realize. I am so thrilled to have Pat so close by!


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Thanks for the update, it's really good to know that you're feeling at least a little more comfortable.

Thanks for working to make Parker feel better!


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm glad this is working out for you. I was given step by step instructions from a trainer friend to work with Shadow. It's not always easy...especially when you have to use a body that's a bit smaller than your dog to body block when the focus is on what drives them rather than you. :uhoh: It does work though. I just hope I can pull off some of the training when in a room full of controlled dogs. We shall see...I'm keeping my :crossfing...It is the best training situation I can find though.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

You've got an amazing range of advice here, but I just wanted to add one thing I didn't see covered elsewhere in the thread.

If you start expecting Parker to get nervous around other dogs, you'll naturally start to get nervous or expectant yourself. Parker will pick up on it. Sometimes fearing a dog will have a fear or aggression reaction can help fuel it.

You probably already knew that, but I wanted to emphasize how important it is for the humans to work on their own emotional states as they try to retrain their dogs' emotional states.


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## jimla (Oct 9, 2008)

I'm glad you are getting help from a great professional trainer. Keep us posted on your progress. Good advice Tippykayak on reducing handler tension. I have had better success with Roxy's reaction to other dogs when I get her attention and stay calm. When we walk by other dogs barking behind a fence, she looks at me for her treat.


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## sameli102 (Aug 23, 2009)

tippykayak said:


> You've got an amazing range of advice here, but I just wanted to add one thing I didn't see covered elsewhere in the thread.
> 
> If you start expecting Parker to get nervous around other dogs, you'll naturally start to get nervous or expectant yourself. Parker will pick up on it. Sometimes fearing a dog will have a fear or aggression reaction can help fuel it.
> 
> You probably already knew that, but I wanted to emphasize how important it is for the humans to work on their own emotional states as they try to retrain their dogs' emotional states.


Yes, Pat did cover that too and I am trying hard to be more aware of how I am reacting! Good advice.



Kimm said:


> I'm glad this is working out for you. I was given step by step instructions from a trainer friend to work with Shadow. It's not always easy...especially when you have to use a body that's a bit smaller than your dog to body block when the focus is on what drives them rather than you. :uhoh: It does work though. I just hope I can pull off some of the training when in a room full of controlled dogs. We shall see...I'm keeping my :crossfing...It is the best training situation I can find though.


Oddly enough in a room full of other dogs training Parker is great unless during idle time he or another dog get a little too close between exercises. His problem is more when he first arrives at class and is excited and worked up or when out somewhere else a dog suddenly appears. I've started a log documenting everything I am doing, how often and how long and what his responses are for our follow up appointment. Including how much exercise he got that day. That is very helpful for me to tract too because it helps me see on paper how diligent I am being or if I'm slacking.



jimla said:


> I'm glad you are getting help from a great professional trainer. Keep us posted on your progress. Good advice Tippykayak on reducing handler tension. I have had better success with Roxy's reaction to other dogs when I get her attention and stay calm. When we walk by other dogs barking behind a fence, she looks at me for her treat.


That's great, having him get to the point that he looks to me on his own for a treat every time he sees a new dog is what I am aiming for right now.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

sameli102 said:


> We had our meeting with Pat yesterday, she is very knowledgeable and very professional. She spent a great deal of time with us and gave me some solutions to work toward. I am going to work on these exercises diligently for several weeks and schedule a follow up with her to see how we have progressed. She pointed out many things about Parker that I had never noticed and confirmed many of my concerns about him. She went over so much in such great detail that it would be impossible to mention it all and my head is still swimming trying to put it all in place.
> I will be keeping a log and report back on what we have done and what seemed to help the most as I get a better handle on it all.
> 
> For anyone having any concerns about a behavior I strongly suggest at least one visit with a reputable trainer, it is so worth the time and money. They see and point out so many things that you never even realize. I am so thrilled to have Pat so close by!


Were you the evening appointment that ended with Pat learning someone had dumped a 12w old Westie in a crate on her driveway?!?

Glad you had a great appointment! Can't wait to hear how things progress for you.


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## sameli102 (Aug 23, 2009)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Were you the evening appointment that ended with Pat learning someone had dumped a 12w old Westie in a crate on her driveway?!?
> 
> Glad you had a great appointment! Can't wait to hear how things progress for you.


Aww, that poor little thing! Yes it was us that she was working with. Somehow she got out the lane in front of us and I was wondering what they were doing, found out when I read her blog today. How pathetic some people can be.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

We were at the point of needing to video tape our sessions because my friend is not in this area, but I knew DH wouldn't be able to handle a dog and a camera. For some reason I cannot get him to leave one dog behind when we do things.


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