# A Dumbell Trying to Teach The Dumbell



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

A lot of times that happens because the dumbbell isn't sized right for him. Make sure the ends are plenty big so he can grab the bar easily without hitting his nose on the floor (speaking from experience!). I had to get a custom made one for Mr. Big Head.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

What kind of dumbbell is it? Do you have a picture of him with it in his mouth? Could probably tell by that whether the ends need to be bigger or not or if the bit's too narrow or wide?


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## tikiandme (May 16, 2010)

hotel4dogs said:


> A lot of times that happens because the dumbbell isn't sized right for him. Make sure the ends are plenty big so he can grab the bar easily without hitting his nose on the floor (speaking from experience!). I had to get a custom made one for Mr. Big Head.


 Unfortunately, he doesn't have a big head. I wish that was his problem. (I love a big head!) I'll check to see if he is hitting his nose on the floor. Thanks for the advice.


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## tikiandme (May 16, 2010)

Megora said:


> What kind of dumbbell is it? Do you have a picture of him with it in his mouth? Could probably tell by that whether the ends need to be bigger or not or if the bit's too narrow or wide?


 Thanks, Kate. I'll take a picture of him with it and post it tomorrow....


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## tikiandme (May 16, 2010)

hotel4dogs said:


> A lot of times that happens because the dumbbell isn't sized right for him. Make sure the ends are plenty big so he can grab the bar easily without hitting his nose on the floor (speaking from experience!). I had to get a custom made one for Mr. Big Head.


 Barney's nose just barely touches the floor when he picks up the dumbbell.


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## tikiandme (May 16, 2010)

Megora said:


> What kind of dumbbell is it? Do you have a picture of him with it in his mouth? Could probably tell by that whether the ends need to be bigger or not or if the bit's too narrow or wide?


 It's a plastic dumbbell. Here are some pics. Tried to get a side pic but he wasn't cooperating today, they came out blurry....


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Try a wood dumbbell many dogs don't like the feel of the plastic on their teeth, it clanks on their teeth. I would go with wood


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Ohsh - he's so cute<:

Do you train at a club where you could borrow somebody else's dumbbell to see what works? 

I think you might want a dumbbell with bigger ends? Mine are 3" ends - and makes it easier for pickups. When the dogs are going in to pick up, the dumbbell is more like -

|-| 

Instead of 

o-o

And might try 1/2" less with bit length.

??? 

I think that might make a difference, but it'd be worth asking around a club if you train at one if you can borrow different sized dumbbells to see.


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## swishywagga (Nov 13, 2012)

I have no advice to offer he's still my best boy!.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

What do y'all use to measure for width? The J&J and Max 200 websites say to use a pencil or something, but I don't really like that idea. Thinking of beginning to build drive for the dumbbell as a sortof side project for Rocket. He's my "A" dog, so I am slowly accumulating obedience/rally equipment. 

Pros and cons of wood vs plastic? Colored vs white?

Sorry if I'm hijacking your post @tikiandme. Your boy is precious!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I use a pencil. And measure snug against the lips - because too much length on bits leads to more juggling.

Dogs seem to prefer wood - and it's lighter in their mouths. But wood bounces on mats more. So you gotta be better at throwing over the high jump. 

most trials have dark mats - so the white dumbbells show up better against the mats for the dogs. 

j&J hopefully is getting better, because I prefer their dumbbells over Max200... last time I ordered dumbbells (back with Bert was a pup, it took them 3 months....)


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Guess I need to go buy pencils... I guess you know you're a crazy dog person when the only reason to buy pencils is to measure for dumbbell size. LOL 

Once I measure, I may just buy both and see which one he likes better. Thanks Kate!


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Go out to the J&J website, they are very detailed on how to measure. There is also a plastic dumbbell with a wood mouthpiece. 

I sat in the floor and placed the dumbbell on the floor & rewarded when she picked it up by the bar long before tossing it. If she picked it up by the ends there was no reward, simply put it back on the floor. By the time I started tossing it (we worked in the house 1st) she understood how to pick it up. 

We actually placed it on the ground and sent her to pick it up long before we started tossing. Not sure this makes a difference but limited the over excitement until she understood the proper way to pick it up. You just need to figure out how your dog thinks. I've never had to break it down like this for my other girls... but this is what worked for her.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

ArkansasGold said:


> Guess I need to go buy pencils... I guess you know you're a crazy dog person when the only reason to buy pencils is to measure for dumbbell size. LOL
> 
> Once I measure, I may just buy both and see which one he likes better. Thanks Kate!


Oh - or anything similar works. 

Heck even a stick from outside. :smile2:


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I think the ends are too small. He should be able to quickly scoop it up with his nose being within 1/2 inch (or more) of the floor.
I agree, can you borrow one and try it a few times?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

If you bring him with to Birch Run (I think in April?), I could let him try out the ones I have??? I usually always keep my training bags in the trunk of my car.

Other thing is with Jojo - I'm just using a leather article for training purposes around the house. This because I mainly am working on tile floor at home and cringe about tossing my wood dumbbells on that floor. I did have one shatter in the past. The articles of course are flat on either side of the muzzle. 

Only other thing is practice pickups without a tossed retrieve. Grabbing the sides might be an excitement thing messing up with his pickups. He might be hurrying too much to pick up and is grabbing whatever is closest to his mouth. 

With Jojo - I'm having pouncing/running through things with his dumbbell (oh and newest cute thing which he did yesterday when we tried working retrieves without warmup at a private and he grabbed his dumbbell and proceeded to run zoomies around the floor and took it out to show my instructor's dog). To bring the excitement level down by taking the "chase" component completely out - I am putting him in a wait, placing the dumbbell about 3-6 feet away and setting him to fetch it.


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## tikiandme (May 16, 2010)

swishywagga said:


> I have no advice to offer he's still my best boy!.


 Oh, Auntie Swishy! You will always be my bestest Auntie and my Bestest Valentine!........The Barney


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I use wood dumbbells  With an unpainted bit, but the bells are white.


I like wood because it is natural material and can take cold & hot vehicles with no issues. Plus the plastic dumbbells are nasty if your dog mouths or chews them.


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## tikiandme (May 16, 2010)

hotel4dogs said:


> I think the ends are too small. He should be able to quickly scoop it up with his nose being within 1/2 inch (or more) of the floor.
> I agree, can you borrow one and try it a few times?


 The dumbbell I have has 2 3/4 inch ends and his nose hits the ground. I don't think a 3 inch end would give his Jimmy Durante-like muzzle enough clearance. The next size up at J&J is 3 I/2, so I might have to give that a try. Thanks for the help, Barb.


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## tikiandme (May 16, 2010)

Megora said:


> Ohsh - he's so cute<:
> 
> Do you train at a club where you could borrow somebody else's dumbbell to see what works?
> 
> ...


I don't have a club to train at yet. I been working with him on my own with this so far. We had a rather bad experience at the training facility we went to last year. It made Barney more nervous. Me too, for that matter. It was like "Dog Training With Eva Braun". I want to find somewhere to train in the spring.
Anyway, I measured him with a pencil and the width of that was 2 1/2 inches. His nose hits the ground with the dumbbell I have and it's ends are 2 3/4 inches. I'm not sure if 3 inch ends would give enough clearance. I know Bertie has a substantial head. Does a 3 inch end give Bertie plenty of clearance? Also the bit on the one I have is 3 1/4 inch, so I'll have to get a much shorter one.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

tikiandme said:


> I don't have a club to train at yet. I been working with him on my own with this so far. We had a rather bad experience at the training facility we went to last year. It made Barney more nervous. Me too, for that matter. It was like "Dog Training With Eva Braun". I want to find somewhere to train in the spring.


That stinks...  If that's who I think it is, I'm kinda surprised, but then again, I've never taken lessons from her. What I've seen of her training at the clubs close to home (she sometimes takes the same classes I do), she doesn't seem too crazy from how she handles her dogs. 

Do you know Linda G? <= I don't want to put her last name out there because I don't think she's online also I know I can't spell it! Golden person. Very nice. But I know she's active through the FDGRC. I think she still lives out in the Romulus area (I _think_?) - and is retired. I'd check with her to see if she has any suggestions or if she could give you tips from time to time???? 



> Anyway, I measured him with a pencil and the width of that was 2 1/2 inches. His nose hits the ground with the dumbbell I have and it's ends are 2 3/4 inches. I'm not sure if 3 inch ends would give enough clearance. I know Bertie has a substantial head. Does a 3 inch end give Bertie plenty of clearance? Also the bit on the one I have is 3 1/4 inch, so I'll have to get a much shorter one.



Bertie and Jovi use a dumbbell that has 3" ends and a 3" bit. 

I also have a 3.5 bit dumbbell or two from when I was training Jacks (way lippier than Bertie). If Jojo's mouth gets bigger, I have those dumbbells to use.

https://www.jjdog.com/painted-regular-hardwood-dumbbells


If my dogs were more lippy (like Jacks was), I'd get 3.5. 

3" ends were the biggest available from J&J. It works just fine for the dogs picking up.


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## tikiandme (May 16, 2010)

Megora said:


> That stinks...  If that's who I think it is, I'm kinda surprised, but then again, I've never taken lessons from her. What I've seen of her training at the clubs close to home (she sometimes takes the same classes I do), she doesn't seem too crazy from how she handles her dogs.
> 
> Do you know Linda G? <= I don't want to put her last name out there because I don't think she's online also I know I can't spell it! Golden person. Very nice. But I know she's active through the FDGRC. I think she still lives out in the Romulus area (I _think_?) - and is retired. I'd check with her to see if she has any suggestions or if she could give you tips from time to time????
> 
> ...


 
No, I didn't go to Jackie if that's who you're thinking of. She's good. I didn't go to a place that teaches for competition, just a place for regular obedience lessons for unsuspecting shmucks like myself. I've never competed in obedience, but I've always trained my dogs through or up to advanced classes. I just wanted to maybe try to work toward trying for a CD with Barney. Just kind of something to look forward to trying. I do know Linda. I haven't talked to her in 15 years, but maybe she would remember me. 
Thanks for the measuring info. I don't think the regular sizes will work for Barney. He needs a bit that's narrower than 3 inches.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

tikiandme said:


> No, I didn't go to Jackie if that's who you're thinking of. She's good. I didn't go to a place that teaches for competition, just a place for regular obedience lessons for unsuspecting shmucks like myself. I've never competed in obedience, but I've always trained my dogs through or up to advanced classes. I just wanted to maybe try to work toward trying for a CD with Barney. Just kind of something to look forward to trying. I do know Linda. I haven't talked to her in 15 years, but maybe she would remember me.
> Thanks for the measuring info. I don't think the regular sizes will work for Barney. He needs a bit that's narrower than 3 inches.


Phew - I was thinking that didn't sound like Jackie! She or Linda would be who I'd talk to - I like how they handle their own dogs. 

The other painted dumbbell option on J&J has an option for 2.5" bit x 3" ends. <= Otherwise, I think Max 200 does custom jobs.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

I agree that you should try bigger ends. I use plastic dumbbells by Training Treasures. I have found that my girl tends to chomp on wood but holds plastic without chomping. My boy would happily carry anything I think! Winx with the red and Pilot with blue. Training Treasures does custom orders.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Yep, that's why mine was custom made. I think we had 4 inch ends. I gave it away (to one of his puppies) so I can't measure it.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Bringing this thread back: working on retrieves again with a different method than last time because Rocket hated the dumbbells that I bought, wood or plastic. I think they are both too big (for both dogs). Thinking I'll go with Training Treasures this time since they do custom sizes. I'm going to resize Rocket for bit width and ends, but I'm not sure what bit diameter to get. Both dogs tend to mouth the wooden one, which I think is caused by two things: both like to shred/eat wood and it's too big (both bit diameter and width). Pretty sure I got a 12x12 wooden from J&J which has a 7/8" bit diameter. What bit diameter(s) do y'all use? Rocket has a smaller head and is very small for a male, so think what you would do if you had a 55 lb bitch. 

Do y'all use different DBs for training vs trialing? Like one you can beat up and one that looks nice?


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

I have Training Treasures dumbbells. I highly recommend them. It takes a long time but worth the wait. Pilot‘s has a 5/8 inch bit I think. He’s very small too. Around 55 pounds. Ive had people tell me that the bit is too big, but he likes it just fine. I Got the knurled bit. My dogs each have 1 dumbbell. I always use the same Dumbbell For practice and show. As long as you aren’t throwing it on a sidewalk, it should be fine. I have a few spots in his from doing that.

Actually, it’s his favorite possession!

Have you worked on getting a solid hold? I did a lot of that for field. It definitely carried over.









Heres a picture of his. It’s over a year old. Been thrown on the sidewalk. Got him through his CDX.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

So... seeing this thread I take back what I said about my guys having big mouths in the other dumbbell thread.... forgot the wood ones I use for Bertie and Jovi were 3" bits! And even weirder (to me) is going on Max 200 where I bought my bigger/heavier plastic dumbbell, I don't see any 3.5 sizes there.  Um, wow. 

I have an old J&J plastic dumbbell which is really chewed up from my Jacks. I never committed to teaching him a proper hold from the start since he was a natural retriever - so he chomped and mouthed while bringing his dumbbell back. I'll use that when doing dumbbell practice in a parking lot on asphalt or in our driveway (stones). It's chewed up a little so I don't care if it gets beat up? 

I mainly just use the wood dumbbells for Bert and Jovi - though I'm trying something different with Glee. 

Bertie has never chewed anything (he's super soft with the mouth, to a fault actually). 

Jovi and Glee - I did not start retrieves with them until they had learned take/hold/give from my hand. Prevented all problems with Jovi who is my angel. Minimizes problems with Glee.... 

Glee has a lot of extra silliness and isn't as sensitive as his brother. The issues I had with him was him pouncing on the dumbbells (even when the db landed right up against walls!) and then he consistently picked up the dumbbells by the bells instead of the bit. 

I'm still working and training him past his problems with dumbbells - but found switching to the bigger and heavier Max 200 plastic dumbbell helped in getting him to pick up the dumbbell by the bit. It's too heavy for him to carry by the end so he's forced to pick it up cleanly..


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Thank you @Abeille ! He has a really solid hold for just about whatever you give him, except a dumbbell. He didn’t want to take it and I really think it’s because it’s too big. I’ve been trying about the very beginning steps of Matt Twitty’s version of force fetch and it seems to be working Really well so far. He’s actually getting excited to put it in his mouth. I just don’t want him to have to keep working with these gigantic dumbbells. Some of the ones from other obedience supply places have the right length and height, but the bit diameter is still too thick.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Training Treasures lets you choose everything. Matt’s way should work. I did a little force fetch with Pilot. Never finished it though because I didn’t know how. With him, I played fetch with mini paint rollers when he was a baby and progressed to a “baby dumbbell“ then on to the adult sized one. Baby dumbbell was an accidental too small order from J and J. I created a dumbbell monster. Lol! Lord help me when a judge decides to carry the dumbbell!


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

@Abeille He has a YouTube video of the first few steps and I have been scouring the internet to find the rest of the steps. Someone recorded nearly an entire seminar, but the videos are broken into pieces and aren't titled for their contents, so I've watched nearly half a seminar in the past week and still haven't found the remaining steps. LOL But I learned how he teaches articles, drop on recall, moving stand, preventing arcing on a retrieve, and directed jumping so the videos are still really helpful. If only I could go to Sunnyside to work on all of this... I'm really hopeful that his seminar in Cleveland in September isn't cancelled. I'd love to go as an auditor for that one and then maybe get a working spot when he comes back to Cincinnati in July 2021. That was kinda off the subject, but oh well.

Thank you for all of your help with dumbbells. I really really appreciate it! I've really been stressing about both dogs hating them and mouthing, so I placed an order with Training Treasures this morning and will probably take a break from really working on a retrieve until they come in. Hoping they can make them quicker than usual since there aren't any trials for awhile. Eevee LOVES to retrieve more than she likes food, so I don't want to ruin it for her before she really even gets started. Anecdotal side note: The other day I held out a piece of cheese in one hand and a yarn ball in the other and asked her to choose. She chose the ball and I was floored. Rocket would have chosen the cheese hands down and without hesitation.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

ArkansasGold said:


> @Abeille He has a YouTube video of the first few steps and I have been scouring the internet to find the rest of the steps. Someone recorded nearly an entire seminar, but the videos are broken into pieces and aren't titled for their contents, so I've watched nearly half a seminar in the past week and still haven't found the remaining steps. LOL But I learned how he teaches articles, drop on recall, moving stand, preventing arcing on a retrieve, and directed jumping so the videos are still really helpful. If only I could go to Sunnyside to work on all of this... I'm really hopeful that his seminar in Cleveland in September isn't cancelled. I'd love to go as an auditor for that one and then maybe get a working spot when he comes back to Cincinnati in July 2021. That was kinda off the subject, but oh well.
> 
> Thank you for all of your help with dumbbells. I really really appreciate it! I've really been stressing about both dogs hating them and mouthing, so I placed an order with Training Treasures this morning and will probably take a break from really working on a retrieve until they come in. Hoping they can make them quicker than usual since there aren't any trials for awhile. Eevee LOVES to retrieve more than she likes food, so I don't want to ruin it for her before she really even gets started. Anecdotal side note: The other day I held out a piece of cheese in one hand and a yarn ball in the other and asked her to choose. She chose the ball and I was floored. Rocket would have chosen the cheese hands down and without hesitation.


I wanted to go but now I think I'll wait until next year. I haven't tried the moving stand on Pilot. I think his method would be too much for him. Pilot is a big softy. LOL I had an auditor spot last year. I think next time I'll go for a working spot.

You're welcome! Pilot is a little confused about me getting his dumbbell out and not using it. Pilot would choose a yarn ball over a treat every day of the week! It's incredible how hard wired the retrieve is in him.


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## Rastadog (Oct 24, 2006)

Tie a string on it. Tease him; drag it. Make it fun. Build prey drive, understanding and motivation.


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

I have been following along. Moe was in class this winter with the idea of earning his RN. I thought the dumbbell would have been the easiest thing for us. It was not!!! He is force fetch trained and will deliver to hand with a ball, bird, dummy, heck he will even pick up the TV remote. The first day we introduced it in class I tossed it out on the floor and he walked over and smelled it and LEFT IT THERE! I was shocked. He's never not picked up anything I tossed.

I went back through all the steps and eventually got him to take, hold, give. He looks like he's in pain the entire time though. He puts his head back and looks at the sky the entire time the dumbbell is in his mouth. He also mouths it constantly. I bought a plastic one first and then tried a wooden one. I tried different sizes at class. I even tried rubbing the plastic one down with treats. He prefers the wooden one but it was so bad that my husband asked if I really wanted his RN title. He is training for JH and SH and we were both a little afraid it was going to make him not want to hold anything. He's perfect at holding anything else.

I wondered if it was because I had never introduced a dumbbell? I'm going to let it go since my husband really wants to hunt test him, but reading these posts made me think about it again.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

@DblTrblGolden2 I think part of Rocket’s problem is that he wasn’t introduced to the dumbbell at an early age, but I really think most of it is that it was the wrong size. He is really a very biddable dog. Quite a bit softer than Eevee, and he is a thinker. He wants to be right, so when he looked at the dumbbell like “you want me to put THAT in my mouth? That can’t be right.” I realized that what we were doing wasn’t working. Matt Twitty’s FF is really pretty gentle. It’s an ear pinch, but more of a light squeeze. Pressure instead of pain. Anyway, here’s to hoping that the right size helps. I want him to be RACH Rocket CDX and then he might be retired. He’s only 4.5 right now, so theoretically have plenty of time.


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

ArkansasGold said:


> @DblTrblGolden2 I think part of Rocket’s problem is that he wasn’t introduced to the dumbbell at an early age, but I really think most of it is that it was the wrong size. He is really a very biddable dog. Quite a bit softer than Eevee, and he is a thinker. He wants to be right, so when he looked at the dumbbell like “you want me to put THAT in my mouth? That can’t be right.” I realized that what we were doing wasn’t working. Matt Twitty’s FF is really pretty gentle. It’s an ear pinch, but more of a light squeeze. Pressure instead of pain. Anyway, here’s to hoping that the right size helps. I want him to be RACH Rocket CDX and then he might be retired. He’s only 4.5 right now, so theoretically have plenty of time.


Please keep us up to date on your progress. Moe is really training right now for his hunt tests so I'm letting it go, but I may circle back to it. He is extremely biddable and sensitive as well. He's the softest Golden we've ever had and definitely a thinker. I'm sure he will do it if I can convince him he's suppose too. lol


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

DblTrblGolden2 said:


> Please keep us up to date on your progress. Moe is really training right now for his hunt tests so I'm letting it go, but I may circle back to it. He is extremely biddable and sensitive as well. He's the softest Golden we've ever had and definitely a thinker. I'm sure he will do it if I can convince him he's suppose too. lol


I will! He has 11 QQQ's for his RACH and 133 points (out of 300). Since we have this long break, I really want to focus on Obedience for awhile with the hope that it will improve his Rally skills. I may even trial in Obedience instead of Rally when shows come back - which is what I had intended to do this year anyway, but then didn't practice heeling enough.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

ArkansasGold said:


> @DblTrblGolden2 I think part of Rocket’s problem is that he wasn’t introduced to the dumbbell at an early age, but I really think most of it is that it was the wrong size. He is really a very biddable dog. Quite a bit softer than Eevee, and he is a thinker. He wants to be right, so when he looked at the dumbbell like “you want me to put THAT in my mouth? That can’t be right.” I realized that what we were doing wasn’t working. Matt Twitty’s FF is really pretty gentle. It’s an ear pinch, but more of a light squeeze. Pressure instead of pain. Anyway, here’s to hoping that the right size helps. I want him to be RACH Rocket CDX and then he might be retired. He’s only 4.5 right now, so theoretically have plenty of time.


I think introducing them early helps. I had Pilot fetching a mini paint roller on the first day. I have a dog, my Novica A dog, who wanted no part of the dumbbell. We started ear pinch but the pressure method Matt uses didn‘t work with her. She had dead ears! Have have seen Matt’s retrieve method? He makes a V out of gates and throws the dumbbell into the corner formed. It’s for dogs that play but maybe it would help your pick up.

I want Pilot to be at least Black Tie Affair UDX.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Abeille said:


> I think introducing them early helps. I had Pilot fetching a mini paint roller on the first day. I have a dog, my Novica A dog, who wanted no part of the dumbbell. We started ear pinch but the pressure method Matt uses didn‘t work with her. She had dead ears! Have have seen Matt’s retrieve method? He makes a V out of gates and throws the dumbbell into the corner formed. It’s for dogs that play but maybe it would help your pick up.
> 
> I want Pilot to be at least Black Tie Affair UDX.


Eevee has much less of a problem with it than Rocket, so you may be on to something with the age introduced. She’s 14 months now. I don’t remember how old she was the first time I showed it to her.

I just saw a video of him doing that the other day. I will definitely try it when the new ones come in!

I hope you do get Pilot’s UDX! It’s such a huge accomplishment.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

ArkansasGold said:


> Eevee has much less of a problem with it than Rocket, so you may be on to something with the age introduced. She’s 14 months now. I don’t remember how old she was the first time I showed it to her.
> 
> I just saw a video of him doing that the other day. I will definitely try it when the new ones come in!
> 
> I hope you do get Pilot’s UDX! It’s such a huge accomplishment.


Just don't be too serious at first. The formal stuff can come later. 

Thanks! First we have to get his UD! He is only 3 so we have time. I hope Rocket can get his RACH!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

This, absolutely this.



Rastadog said:


> Tie a string on it. Tease him; drag it. Make it fun. Build prey drive, understanding and motivation.


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