# question about hip dysplasia



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I'm having a hard time telling from the videos. He is definitely running oddly there, but when they play with other dogs, sometimes they tuck their tails in and run with a funny gait, so it could simply be behavioral, not structural.

Also, puppies often have very funny ways of sitting as they grow into themselves, so that's not necessarily anything to worry about either. Particularly at that age (5-10 months), they can get really, really awkward. It doesn't necessarily mean anything is wrong.

When he's had a bunch of exercise and then takes a nap, does he seem stiff or does have any trouble getting up or walking? Does he still run like that when he's not playing with other dogs? If so, I might have him evaluated by a vet.

Hip x-rays at his age will definitely show dysplasia if it's severe. If it's borderline, you might not be able to tell yet, since sometimes joints are a little lax at that age and improve by maturity. If he's not showing stiffness or lameness, there's probably no reason to concern yourself yet, though you can give glucosamine and chondroitin supplements for your own peace of mind, since they won't hurt him, and they'll help if he truly does have joint problems.

I hope that helps!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

What I see from the video is a puppy that is very loose, and cow-hocked. It could be the age, his structure, or, because he is playing and appears to be somewhat submissive to the other dogs - difficult to tell from the video. I'd be inclined to have "look-see" rads done. We do it with youngsters that we are going to be showing, to get an idea of how they are maturing. If there is any evidence of HD, we wouldn't sink a ton of money into showing. It can't hurt to check now, and it would help if there is HD evident, even if mild, insofar as feeding/supplementation/conditioning in order to minimize the effects.


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## C's Mom (Dec 7, 2009)

Pointgold said:


> What I see from the video is a puppy that is very loose, and cow-hocked.


For those of us, like me, who know nothing about conformation what does "very loose, cow-hocked" mean?

I'm very interested in this thread because sometimes I have seen my golden hop when he is running, more so when he is slowing down, and it seems strange. I think whomever owned him let him get too big too fast.

Here are two pics of my "long dog" and one of him sitting just because he looks cute:


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

C's Mom said:


> For those of us, like me, who know nothing about confirmation what does "very loose, cow-hocked" mean?
> 
> I'm very interested in this thread because sometimes I have seen my golden hop when he is running, more so when he is slowing down, and it seems strange. I think whomever owned him let him get too big too fast.


PG can correct me if I'm wrong, but cow-hocked refers to the back legs. It means the paws are facing slightly outwards instead of straight forward. The back legs are sort of splay-footed.


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## C's Mom (Dec 7, 2009)

tippykayak said:


> PG can correct me if I'm wrong, but cow-hocked refers to the back legs. It means the paws are facing slightly outwards instead of straight forward. The back legs are sort of splay-footed.


Thanks for answering my question.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

C's Mom said:


> For those of us, like me, who know nothing about conformation what does "very loose, cow-hocked" mean?
> 
> I'm very interested in this thread because sometimes I have seen my golden hop when he is running, more so when he is slowing down, and it seems strange. I think whomever owned him let him get too big too fast.
> 
> Here are two pics of my "long dog" and one of him sitting just because he looks cute:


 
Cow-hocked refers to the hock joints being like this when viewed from the rear:
\ /
/ \ 
as opposed to being straight up and down. Cows stand like that, hence the term.
"Loose" refers to the joints moving sort of "randomly" as opposed to neatly and straight, and providing good drive. 

Your boy is long, and he is straight stifled - lacking the angulation necessary for a strong rear. It is structural, and dogs made this way do often experience orthopaedic issues such as HD. Allowing them to gecome too heavy, especially when young, can exacerbate it.


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## C's Mom (Dec 7, 2009)

Pointgold said:


> Cow-hocked refers to the hock joints being like this when viewed from the rear:
> \ /
> / \
> as opposed to being straight up and down. Cows stand like that, hence the term.
> ...


Thank you for the definitions. 

I have no idea what straight stifled means but will look it up on google - (don't want to be a pest with too many questions).


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

C's Mom said:


> Thank you for the definitions.
> 
> I have no idea what straight stifled means but will look it up on google - (don't want to be a pest with too many questions).


Not a pest at all! I've referenced some excellent material for you in your other thread...


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## little_pony (Feb 4, 2009)

thank you for you answers!! so you propose to do an X-ray now? (I've read that a good age to show exactly is about 1-1.5 years old)
should I ask the vet to give him glucosamine and chondroitine? 
My dog doesn't seem to stiff or has any trouble getting up or walking..after a longtime sleep, he stands up and strech, and when we come back (and he sleeps) he come to us and lay down and strech..
I don't let him running a lot..(I read that he shouldn't excersise a lot untill 1 years old and because he doesn't know the command "come" and because when he is unleashed he stops and snif and eat "bad things") I've let him unleash to run 10 times untill now).When I let him he runs like crazy and i think like the videos i posted..


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

little_pony said:


> thank you for you answers!! so you propose to do an X-ray now? (I've read that a good age to show exactly is about 1-1.5 years old)
> should I ask the vet to give him glucosamine and chondroitine?
> My dog doesn't seem to stiff or has any trouble getting up or walking..after a longtime sleep, he stands up and strech, and when we come back (and he sleeps) he come to us and lay down and strech..
> I don't let him running a lot..(I read that he shouldn't excersise a lot untill 1 years old and because he doesn't know the command "come" and because when he is unleashed he stops and snif and eat "bad things") I've let him unleash to run 10 times untill now).When I let him he runs like crazy and i think like the videos i posted..


 
Are you planning to neuter him? If so, you might wait and have his hips done at that time - he'll already be anesthetized.


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## C's Mom (Dec 7, 2009)

Little Pony, I apologize for butting in on your thread. I'd be happy to delete my posts. I hope neither of our dogs develop HD.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

C's Mom said:


> Little Pony, I apologize for butting in on your thread. I'd be happy to delete my posts. I hope neither of our dogs develop HD.


 
It's all completely relevant, and is how forum threads work! I hope NObody's dog ever is dysplastic...


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## little_pony (Feb 4, 2009)

Nevermind C's Mom..no problem..It was very interesting and relating with my thread..Hope and wish neither of our dogs has it!! I have a lot of stress with it!!
I have observed lately that he seats with this way when he is prepared to lay down afterwards..
Pointgold, I don't know about neuter him..I prefer not to do it..but if it will help him for any health problems, then i'll do..


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

little_pony said:


> Nevermind C's Mom..no problem..It was very interesting and relating with my thread..Hope and wish neither of our dogs has it!! I have a lot of stress with it!!
> I have observed lately that he seats with this way when he is prepared to lay down afterwards..
> Pointgold, I don't know about neuter him..I prefer not to do it..but if it will help him for any health problems, then i'll do..


 
There are many compelling reasons to neuter, most health related. additionally, it is generally easier living with an altered male than an intact male. And if your boy has orthopaedic issues you certainly would not want to breed him and risk perpetuating them.


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## little_pony (Feb 4, 2009)

Off course, I won't breed him!!especially if he has orthopaedic issues!! The most important reason that I'm thinking not to neuter him is that he change his behevior..He 'll become more "bored" i don't know how to say it..


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

little_pony said:


> Off course, I won't breed him!!especially if he has orthopaedic issues!! The most important reason that I'm thinking not to neuter him is that he change his behevior..He 'll become more "bored" i don't know how to say it..


 
That is not true, Little Pony. I understand what you are saying, but neutering them doesn't change their personality. Some altered pets become lazy but that is the owner's fault for allowing it.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I have a dog who had two hip surgeries before the age of one. HD isn't the end of the world, but if you want to show it is upsetting. Some dogs do not even need surgery.

The one thing I remember most about Shadow as a very young pup is hearing a paw scuff the ground. I also remember him tiring out quickly when walking "up" hill. He also sat funny and one side actually flopped. Stairs were another issue. At the time we didn't know what was going on, but he would "seem" to start up the stairs and then stop, then start over again. 

Shadow did run around and play with other dogs. He played fetch daily and ran like the wind, but he did have HD. He's doing very well at the age of 7!

Both of my Goldens are neutered and lazy they are not...


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## little_pony (Feb 4, 2009)

Yes but I'm in greece!! Here there aren't so many good vets like other countries..The labrador one friend's had sever HD from puppy and the vets told him to do a surgery (7000euro and not sure successful) or medication..He give the medicines and now after 6 years his leg "come out",and some vets propose mercy killing!!! (i hope to say it right..finally he did fho surgery and he hopes to be ok his dog..
about neuter i'll think about it and i'll be back for questions:


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I understand. Shadow did have an FHO after his hip popped out of the socket and nothing they did would hold it in. We had the THR done when he was 11 months old and his growth plates were mature.

The FHO and the THR were very successful, but the cost was high. We had the FHO and THR done in 2003. The FHO was $1,500.00 and the THR was about $4,327.00 USDollars. I had great doctors for Shadow.

I have a video or two of him running around. He runs like the wind! It's a beautiful sight.


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## little_pony (Feb 4, 2009)

Paris is now 8 months and ~25kilogramms! Is his weight good or not? 
I feed him acana puppy large breed. Is it a good food for him? Or the protein of this dog food is too high?


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## Goldnbear (Dec 28, 2009)

Just my two cents worth, but if you are not showing your dog, not planning on breeding, wouldn't return him for anything in the world to the breeder, then I would not do hip xrays until he is a little older. Yes, you could see dysplasia now if it is severe enough, but they also may look fine and get worse when he is older. I have not seen from your posts substantial evidence that he could have hip dysplasia. Why not wait until he shows some signs if they are indeed there? I wouldn't go looking for trouble. You could always put him on glucosamine either way if you wanted to help hip/joint health. JMHO.


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## little_pony (Feb 4, 2009)

Hello, I went to our local vet and told me to discuss it with the orthopeadic that comes from Athens some days. So, today he told me to do an x-ray.. 

Here it is:










He told me that the hips are very good and he doesn't need supplements (I was thinking of giving glucosamine and chondroitin), and feed him proplan ( I give him last months Acana, the vets here in Greece doesn't know Acana and Orijen). He also told me not to worry about the way of walking and running, he is growing up, and that will change..
What is your opinion?


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## HovawartMom (Aug 10, 2006)

So happy for you!.
You,now,can relax.Just remember to keep yr dog,at a healthy weight,on a good food and don't overly exercise him,until 18mths and he will have a healthy,long life!.
Cowlegs does not mean hip problem but it is a conformation fault!.


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## Goldnbear (Dec 28, 2009)

I will have to go with the recommendation of your vet on this one...I can't see the x ray very well. It is clear, but too small for my eyes  I can't clearly see the femoral heads- flattening? I am not sure. Agreed, they walk/run lay and sit differently at different stages of life.


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## rappwizard (May 27, 2009)

Goldnbear said:


> I will have to go with the recommendation of your vet on this one...I can't see the x ray very well. It is clear, but too small for my eyes  I can't clearly see the femoral heads- flattening? I am not sure. Agreed, they walk/run lay and sit differently at different stages of life.


Although I'm not a breeder, I've owned 3 goldens, 2 for show, and I agree with Goldenbear on this one--the x-ray is not large enough for me to see either and the femoral heads do look a tad flat, but that could be because we can't see the x-ray very well--the way you have sized the photo, it is small, so we can't make out the detail. If I were in your shoes, I would go on the recommendation of your vet, not worry, and if you want to re-x-ray at the age of 24 months, then go for it, if you see some movement issues. At your golden's age, he is what I like to call "all legs" and at that stage, most dogs are not coordinated, nor do they demonstrate good movement.

I also saw in one part of the video that your golden appeared to be "easty-westy" where the front legs fanned out in opposite directions. Coupled with the cowhocks, you won't see nice movement, no matter how good the hips are. Without hands on examination, we don't know if your golden's chest will drop, or if it has a narrow chest and might be prone to being "easty-westy." But what's important is that you're a good owner, concerned about your dog, feeding your dog good food, providing good doggie friends and getting it exercise, and giving your friend lots of love. 

As for neutering your golden, my first one was neutered at age 26 months, he was a lively, active golden with a big, bold personality before the operation--and he still had the same giant personality after the operation. It did not change him at all. It did increase his appetite--he was a bit of a fussy eater before--food he could take it or leave it--so I did have to watch his weight more--but that was it. He also developed more undercoat, and required more grooming to strip it out. But other than that--same great personality--not a single change. Hope this helps.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

I'm glad to hear that your vet doesn't see any signs of HD.  Can you make the xray any bigger so we can see it better?

Acana is a great food. If your dog does well on it, I wouldn't change! 

You can still give glucosamine/chondroitin supplements regardless! Ask your vet about dosage. We give human grade from our local pharmacy/grocer.


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## little_pony (Feb 4, 2009)

How can I make the x-ray bigger??
What is "easty-westy"? What do you mean "the cest will drop"?? The cowhocks and "easty-westy" you said is it severe? Is it something that I have to be careful or give some medication or suppliments?? 
Sorry if my questions is silly, but Paris is my first dog and I don't know these terms.. Now I'm trying to learn more things.. 
I asked my vet and the orthopeadic vet after the x-ray about giving glucosamine and chondroitin but both told me not to do, and it is recommanded for those who have a problem or tend to have.. Before the x-ray my vet said that i can give him but talk with the orthopeadic vet and decide after. 
About the food I'm comfused..


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## hvgoldens4 (Nov 25, 2009)

Little pony- no worries with those hips!! He has nice deep sockets, the femoral heads are well seated and nice and round with no thickening. He is good to go!!


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