# To crate or not to crate, this is the question!



## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

I am interested in your crating habits. I have never used a crate with any of my dogs (5 in total) and have always had positive experiences. And they seemed to be house trained at the same rhythm as crated dogs sometimes quicker. Where I live crating a dog is almost unheard of. I do not know anyone who has and it is not a subject which comes up with breeders or vets even.


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## BriGuy (Aug 31, 2010)

From reading this forum, I think that crating is more prevalent in the US and Canada. Like any tool, it can be used wisely or abused. Our almost 6 month old puppy is crated when we are not home, but will eventually earn her freedom to hang out on the couch.

There are other circumstances where crating is necessary. For example, in our novice obedience class, all the dogs are crated unless they are working. Also, when we travel to a hotel, we will crate if we have to leave the room. In the event of a vet stay, the dog will be crated as well.


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

I can't imagine NOT crating, particularly for those that work, as there's no way Noah is old enough to have free reign of the apartment when unsupervised. Even supervised, he finds ways to steal paper napkins from right under our noses and shred them, he insists that the cat plays with him, and he "digs" at the cushions on the sofa when he gets excited. 

Our apartment is open concept, so there's really no way to block off the kitchen (plus, I would be concerned about chewing up the baseboards). My neighbor upstairs tried to gate off her master bathroom for her puppy and it chewed a hole through the bathroom wall. 

It's my opinion that crate training helps new puppy/dog owners build and maintain a good relationship with their dog. You don't come home to anything being destroyed, so the owner isn't angry or upset with the dog for something that they weren't mature enough to handle yet. I also believe it helps to not develop separation anxiety, because the dog learns that you're always coming back. My opinion only, of course.

We crate trained our bridge girl and she "graduated" her crate at night at a year old, and she "graduated" her crate full time at about 2 years old.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Yes, my dogs are all crate trained.

Crate training goes beyond house training and keeping your dog safe until the right for free reign in the home is earned.

Crating is used in dog classes, dogs trials, in hotels etc. I usually have no issues with bringing multiple dogs into hotel rooms when I say they will be crated.

Crating, as in Crate Games, is used for teaching stays, building drive and impulse control. 

And as odd as it may seem, once those crate doors are no longer closed the dogs will still chose to be in their crates when they want to rest or simply take a break.

BriGuy's Hazel is my Aedan's sister - Aedan has had full reign of the house at night time for at least a month now and will be crated during the day if no one is home and he is unsupervised while indoors for more than a half hour or so -- he does live in a multiple dog household so the older dogs can keep him from mischief.


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## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

I am at home most days every day with my dogs. When I do rarely go somewhere without them they are kept in our small entrance hall with toys when young, before graduating to the lounge when older. I don't take them to hôtels so this is never a problem. I know it sounds surprising but it's not part of the doggie keeping culture here. I have absolutely nothing against crating and understand its key role.


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## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

Hi Rabernet I hear where you are coming from. But please don't suggest that us owners who do not crate have a lesser relationship with our dog. :no: Don't think that my dogs have the run of the house from day 1 either. We do have a system in place! :wavey:


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

I am on a similar page on crates as Rabernet, Briguy, and Sunrise. Going down the same path as Rabernet I like the idea that by using the crate or an xpen when they are young and can't be fully supervised that they will not learn unintentional bad habits. The dog gets more freedom as good behaviors have been taught and are in place. I don't have to nag or continuely correct a pup after the fact when they make wrong choices. My thoughts are that dogs/pups are always learning even when I am not actively teaching. 

Some dogs/pups may not need the same amount of structure so it is just up to the owner to do the best for their individual pup or dog. 

I have a crate left in either the dining room or living room (i move it around) and at different times during the day one or the other or both dogs may be laying in it.  

Helie was out of the crate at 4 months old for night time sleeping. He did go into the crate when I left the house during the daytime. Luke is still in the crate for night time sleeping at 18 months as he would want to play with Helie in the middle of the night. And if I leave the house for any large chunk of time he is crated if they can't go with me.


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## rabernet (Feb 24, 2015)

BuddyinFrance said:


> Hi Rabernet I hear where you are coming from. But please don't suggest that us owners who do not crate have a lesser relationship with our dog. :no: Don't think that my dogs have the run of the house from day 1 either. We do have a system in place! :wavey:


No - that was not my intent at all. It was simply to say that for those of us with puppies who are still destructive, you're likely to be less resentful of said puppy when you come home to an intact home vs a home that's been re-decorated while you were away.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

We never have used a crate. The way our kitchen is made we put a gate up and gave her a small part of the kitchen. It's a bigger area then a crate would be. We have had no issues with housebreaking. She was a breeze. She has slept on my parents bed since 3.5months. At about four months she started consistently asking to be left out and we didn't have to worry making sure we took her out. If we leave for a short time she now gets the kitchen and living room. She doesn't need to go upstairs. If we are gone for extended period she gets the entire kitchen.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

This weekend she was supposed to be at my sisters. Plans got changed because my dad had to work this morning. He left at 530 am this morning. Gave Chloe the living room and kitchen and she didn't destroy anything. She hasn't been a destructive pup. She has had two instances since we got her where my parents left quick in the evening and was left with me where she has done something. Both of those instances came in the evening which is her major playtime.

I think you just have to know your dog. There isn't anything wrong with crating and there isn't anything wrong with not crating and using baby gates. The rooms Chloe does get when we are gone are always puppy proofed and we make sure nothing is left out for her to get.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

I forgot to mention in my above post my mom doesn't work and I am disabled so except for errands we are home all day.


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## SwimDog (Sep 28, 2014)

Over time I am crating my dogs less and less - not because they're getting older/more responsible, but I'm finding less need to. My current puppy was only crated in the car and while at work (I didn't want to leave him loose in my office with my 2 adult dogs for his own safety due to the size difference- I even put a pen around his crate because I was worried they would paw the crate over wanting his chew objects!). When he was around 4 months old I started crating or putting him in a pen by my bed at night because I couldn't risk him jumping off and getting hurt. 

Even in countries where crating is less common (or illegal - sweden? norway?), crates are used for travel and at dog shows. We've taken online classes and had classmates from France and they always crated their dogs in the car when out training with friends.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

In my opinion, raising a puppy with the least amount of stress should involve two things - a crate and a baby gate. 

But how I use these things - is not the same as how a lot of people use them.










Baby gates are ideal for giving your puppy the run of a room that has no door... and teaching him to be free without having you paying constant attention to them. 

Even today, I still will put baby gates up to keep the dogs in our living room when we have visitors and or I just want to keep them out of the kitchen people are eating and I don't want them out there getting freebies. 











This is another form of a crate. It is a small room that is for the most part very easy to keep clean (tile floor and easy to replace or roll up carpet) and is set up to encourage the dogs to sleep for the most part. Until a puppy is for the most part potty trained, I will always keep them in my bedroom if I'm at work and the family is not awake and ready to watch. Bertie is my third pup to raise this way and none of them have ever had accidents in my bedroom. The dogs prior to that were potty trained using our kitchen (tile floor). That had different results, I think partly because they didn't normally sleep all the time in our kitchen. Plus it's a very big kitchen - so if the dogs slept in the bottom of the pantry or in the other corner, they'd just go find the opposite corner to potty. It was gross. 










Now crates are awesome providing they are big enough to give the pup lots of space to sprawl out and or occupy themselves at any point you need to pop them in there when they are too much a distraction. 

This crate I used for this purpose was big enough to fit two adult dogs and puppy comfortably. Currently I can stick both goldens in the crate and they have plenty of space to hang out together. 










Generally even when not latching the crate door, I found that Bertie (and my other dogs) voluntarily just went in there to hang out. In this case as well, I used the crate to block a doorway into our kitchen to keep him in the kitchen with me while I baked Christmas cookies. 

Might add that even though Bertie is grown up and perfect in the house, I still have use for all that crate training with both him and my Jacks. 










^ This is the crate I primarily keep in the car and it is quickly set up at dog shows, fun matches, and obedience trials. It's perfect for maintaining "control" in a crowded space at obedience trials.... and then because there's a lot of down time at dog shows, I usually will partially groom my dog and then stick him in the crate for an hour or so before I finish up. 










And this is the other crate I like to have (I need to buy a new one at some point). It's not ideal for a puppy who doesn't have crate manners (reason why I need a new one), but it is ideal for those times when you need to stick a dog in a crate and don't want to carry a heavy crate around. 

^^^^ All pictures posted to show that the "caged dog" perception of crate training is not always the case. I don't use my crates to confine my dogs for long periods of time. Right from the time they are puppies, they sleep in my bed and as shown above, have a whole room to themselves. That said, I do see a very strong need for having a crate on hand. In ordinary circumstances, if you are just going anywhere with the dogs and need to have your hands free and/or things are a little crowded and your dog would otherwise be crawling and pulling to meet people and other dogs.... crates are perfect for then.

Puppy class with Bertie - any time we were not training, he was in his crate. I absolutely not believe puppy class should be social hour or anything like. It's strictly bonding time between you and your dog. So generally speaking when the teacher starts those long lectures between exercises, I'd stick Bertie in his crate and give him something to nom on to keep him quiet. 

Even going further back before puppy classes, he'd come to classes with Jacks. I generally kept him in a plastic crate all through class and generally people did not realize there was a puppy in there because he'd be so quiet and settled in there. <= I got a lot of credit for crate training him so well, but to be honest - his breeder started all the puppies before I brought him home. Bertie had been on a couple very long drives between Michigan and Canada in his young life hanging out in a crate, so by the time I got him he was perfect already. That isn't to say it's impossible to get a dog well-adjusted to hanging out in a crate. My Jacks was never inside a crate before age 3. I did hurry up crate training the year or so before bringing Bertie home. A lot of crate games (go crate!) made it a very fun and positive place for him and to this day, it helps a ton now he's retired from dog training. I still bring him with to obedience classes and dog shows. He gets to hang out in his crate and is happy as a clam. 

All that said - I pretty much get a little tense when I hear about people leaving dogs in crates for majority of the day, even when they are home. To me - that's not healthy for growing bones. All the more so when I see the very tiny crates used for potty training. That's just me though. 

ETA - Oh reading one of the posts above reminded me. I had a small springer spaniel sized crate for my car which fit in my front seat. Was perfect for car rides when Bertie was too small to understand the car rules. By the time he outgrew the crate, he was big enough and grown up enough to know when to sit still.


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## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

SwimDog said:


> Over time I am crating my dogs less and less - not because they're getting older/more responsible, but I'm finding less need to. My current puppy was only crated in the car and while at work (I didn't want to leave him loose in my office with my 2 adult dogs for his own safety due to the size difference- I even put a pen around his crate because I was worried they would paw the crate over wanting his chew objects!). When he was around 4 months old I started crating or putting him in a pen by my bed at night because I couldn't risk him jumping off and getting hurt.
> 
> Even in countries where crating is less common (or illegal - sweden? norway?), crates are used for travel and at dog shows. We've taken online classes and had classmates from France and they always crated their dogs in the car when out training with friends.


Yes I have crated Bud in the car in the past.. and he does not object to it. But he prefers being strapped in with a doggy seat belt. When I was saying we don't crate in France I was referring to in the house, you are right some people us crates for transport. Wow I did not know it is illegal in some countries.


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## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

Megora said:


> In my opinion, raising a puppy with the least amount of stress should involve two things - a crate and a baby gate.
> 
> But how I use these things - is not the same as how a lot of people use them.
> 
> ...


Thank you for such a detailed reply. The photos are really lovely! (Like you I can't stand the idea of a pup being regularly crated for 8 hours a day whilst owners are out)


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## thorbreafortuna (Jun 9, 2013)

I crated Thor as a puppy which helped him stay safe and out of trouble while we were away, but he was crated very little or not at all when we were home. By 7 months he was sleeping out of his crate with no issues and by 10 months we had him gated in the kitchen, soon after he was free in the house, all before he turned 1. He has never destroyed anything while he was alone. We soon discovered that he only picked up unapproved items when we were home as a way to initiate play. But that's another thread ?


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

thorbreafortuna said:


> I crated Thor as a puppy which helped him stay safe and out of trouble while we were away, but he was crated very little or not at all when we were home. By 7 months he was sleeping out of his crate with no issues and by 10 months we had him gated in the kitchen, soon after he was free in the house, all before he turned 1. He has never destroyed anything while he was alone. We soon discovered that he only picked up unapproved items when we were home as a way to initiate play. But that's another thread ?


 That sounds like Chloe. Both times she got in trouble was when I was home with her and my parents had to run out real quick. It was her usual playtime and she was just bored and being disabled I couldn't get her the exercise she needed. If she is home by herself she just sleeps.


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## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

I have actually filmed Buddy when I have left him alone in the lounge/hall to see what he does when I am out. He basically jumped up on his favourite chair and watched me leave. Stayed there for another 5 minutes or so watching the birds and then crashed out on the sofa and started snoring! I was expecting a funny film with him checking out all sorts of things.. but no it was a flop!


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## Brads035 (Apr 1, 2014)

I used the "small room" technique for potty training rather than an actual crate. He had some early messes when I tried to use the crate but strangely would hold it in the bathroom until I relieved him to go outside. So, at night, and during the day while I was working, (the dog walker came to take him for walks) I kept Cody in the bathroom with a number of toys and playthings. He graduated access to the living room/kitchen around 5/6 months and at night he now sleeps in the bedroom with me.


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## The life of Piper (Feb 24, 2015)

As she got older, we let Piper sleep out of the crate, but she kept whimpering to get back into it!! Lol


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Two of my three goldens were crate trained to house train them and to keep them from totally eating the house. They weren't crated after they turned a year and a half or so and the youngest was probably just 7 or 8 months old. He's 2 now and if there's an available crate in the house (we train dogs and use the crates for trainees), that's where you'll find him napping. It cracks me up because we also have a former foster who stays with us regularly who is no longer crated and my youngest and he will sometimes squeeze into a crate together.


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## GoldenSkies (Feb 27, 2014)

I definitely look at crate training as something that is essential to all dogs.. and then whether or not you actually use the crate their entire lives is completely up to you. 
I think because every dog is so different there are definitely dogs who can live their entire lives without ever seeing a crate.. but some dogs just absolutely need it to have order in their life.


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## snoskr (May 31, 2015)

*Crate or not*

We only crate at night while house breaking. We leave the door open during the day so that Bailey can go in when she wants. It worked with our other two Golden's so we just kept on.


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## Trin57 (Jul 11, 2015)

I never did crate train with my first Golden and it was fine. I'm really being encouraged by many to crate my new golden (when I get him/her), and I think I will give it a try


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## DogOwner (Jul 30, 2015)

My puppy will go into his crate at night for about 7 hours. In the morning, he makes some sounds to let me know he is up. He is quiet for the entire night even if I come downstairs and finish laundry or whatever. During the day, he doesn't like it. However, I am going to do it each day, a little longer until he handles it better. He is 4 1/2 months. Doesn't have accidents in the crate or playpen area. And will go outside as long as the door is open. My problem is getting him to go on the side of the house and not on the grass in the backyard. But it is better than in the house. We stopped the potty training papers because often dogs that go on the papers seems to think it is okay to go on throw rugs. We've had him for 5 weeks and he was a rescue puppy that was neutered at 3 1/2 months which I think is too early but there was nothing I could do since it was done already.


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## Sarge's dad (Jul 29, 2015)

I crate trained my boy Sarge for the first 2+ years. After I took the crate away, he still slept and napped in the spot where his crate was. If I could recommend a book to read, " The art of raising a puppy" by the monks of the new skeet. Excellent read. Has a section on crate training. Just don't do it as a punishment. It is there home and they will love it.
Buddy


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## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

CalMom said:


> My puppy will go into his crate at night for about 7 hours. In the morning, he makes some sounds to let me know he is up. He is quiet for the entire night even if I come downstairs and finish laundry or whatever. During the day, he doesn't like it. However, I am going to do it each day, a little longer until he handles it better. He is 4 1/2 months. Doesn't have accidents in the crate or playpen area. And will go outside as long as the door is open. My problem is getting him to go on the side of the house and not on the grass in the backyard. But it is better than in the house. We stopped the potty training papers because often dogs that go on the papers seems to think it is okay to go on throw rugs. We've had him for 5 weeks and he was a rescue puppy that was neutered at 3 1/2 months which I think is too early but there was nothing I could do since it was done already.


Hi .. Is it also grass on the side of the house? Why do you want him to go there in particular.. (just curious)


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## Dave92 (Jul 31, 2015)

I've always crated my dogs


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## DogOwner (Jul 30, 2015)

BuddyinFrance said:


> Hi .. Is it also grass on the side of the house? Why do you want him to go there in particular.. (just curious)


 
Actually, this is where our previous dog went and it didn't destroy the grass in the backyard and no one would step on it. It is trees, dirt and 2 separate areas of pea pebbles outlines in brick.

Also had an issue with skin allergies with the boxer so keeping her off the grass was one of the intentions as well.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I've had 5 goldens. The first 4 were crated. When we brought home the 5th, she immediately hated the crate. But we had a another dog that the new puppy was snuggled up with on the dog bed when we were going to bed that first night. So we didn't put her in a crate and decided that this puppy wouldn't be crated. What a huge mistake for us. When we started obedience classes and other training, she needed to be in a crate. We went through a painful process of getting an 8 month old puppy to except a crate. It was painful for us to listen to her howl for hours because she didn't want to be in her crate. Eventually after several weeks, she finally excepted the crate. Now she's completely fine. So now I've learned my lesson. Better to live through a couple of nights of unhappy 8 weeks old puppy, than weeks of 8 month old puppy howling. I'll always crate now.


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## snoskr (May 31, 2015)

The Crate is near out bed. We only crate at night until they are completely house trained and old enough to not get into things at night. Bailey was all done with the crate at about 5 months, then she wanted to sleep next to or on the Bed. Brody now about 3 months goes right in the crate at night, and sleeps all night, Bailey sleeps right next to the crate on her bed to keep watch of Brody, very cute. If we have to leave them alone during the day the youngest is gated in the Kitchen with plenty of room to play with toys and we put their bed in there too. Bailey the older, stays on the other side of one of the gates in the family room where she usually is found upon returning, sleeping facing the gate to keep her eye on Brody.


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## TrailsEdge (Sep 2, 2012)

Crate training is more than a training tool it is a matter of safety. You need to be able to be sure your pup is safe when you are not watching. Protecting her from those things she shouldn't be eating, chewing etc. and protecting your possessions from her puppy mouth.


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## Stefan (Aug 18, 2012)

I didn't crate train my boy and never had any issues, I think it depends on where they are left when by themselves though as I understand people's safety concerns and others


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## Mayabear (Aug 26, 2015)

Our 9 month old Maya is only crated at night, and when we are gone. If we plan on being gone a substantial amount of time, we usually have a pet sitter watch her. However ,the last 5 or so nights, she has not wanted to go into her crate. Usually she gets a nighttime treat (a greenie) and her cue to go into the crate ("kennel"). 

We are convinced this has everything to do with the fact that she was spayed 8-9 days back, and has consequently had to wear an e-collar when unsupervised, which is primarily at night. I don't know if she had some negative experience in the crate with the collar on that has caused her reluctance.

Quite frankly, the crate has been our best friend in a number of situations, and we'd love to have her start using it again. Any advice would be much appreciated!


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