# HELP?? Sudden issue in 2 year old golden



## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

I'm sorry, maybe I'm a bit too sensitive tonight because I'm dealing with my* severely *abused dog being in so much pain she can't deal with it BUT

If someone "tapped" me on the nose I assure you I would do more than growl. Our dogs do not have a voice and they do not come knowing how you want them to act. It's all about training, training, training. Please don't allow that to happen to your dog again. Please.


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

Don't tap him on the nose, use positive reenforcement give him treats when he does something right. Goldens are a breed that really just wants to get their owners approval.


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## Newby (Jan 9, 2013)

Have you noticed any other issues with Phoenix .. i.e., off his food, lethargic ... anything that would indicate a health issue? Is it possible that his snout is sore for some reason? Does he show any food aggression or guarding (won't let you take a bone or toy away from him)?

I am no expert .. but here's my 2 cents .. Has he had any formal training? If he did have obedience training as a young pup, if you are not practicing with him on a regular basis, then I would start doing it again as soon as possible. If he hasn't had any formal training I would sign him up for a class (or maybe he could use a refresher class).

Who knows, maybe he's just really not happy about being slapped on the nose .. personally I don't think that the dog learns anything from that (but that's just my opinion so please don't be offended) .. in any case, you definitely need to address this issue ... I would suggest that if Phoenix goes somewhere he is not supposed to that you redirect him by telling him "off", "leave it" or "out" (assuming he knows one of those commands). Praise him highly if he listens to you on the first command .. if not, if would gently remove him (or if you are concerned about aggression, use your body to block the area and force him away from it) and once you get him away from the area, I would put him in a down/sit stay for a few minutes. 

These are just my suggestions, things that I might try given the same circumstances ... I would speak with your trainer if you have one, and see what he/she suggests.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

This is not about 'dominance' it is called 'owner directed aggression' and it is caused by punishment - the dog keeps on 'taking it' until one day he has had 'enough' and reacts out of fear. Punishment should never be 'all the time', it should be seldom, if ever - physical punishment - NEVER. Imagine yourself being told No,No, no no no, and being repeatedly pinched for doing the 'wrong thing' and not being told, or shown what to do to get a 'YES' and stop the pinching so or later you are going to get 'fed up' and snap. The punishment needs to stop , because Phoenix over time, he may be forced to defend himself and bite. The growl was a warning, the snarl was a bigger warning - LISTEN to him!!!

Strongly suggest finding a positive reinforcement trainer who can teach you how to train Phoenix without punishment.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

Dog's noses are super sensitive. Don't slap them there or anyplace for that matter. Positive reinforcement is how you train a dog to do anything.


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## tobi2 (Jan 4, 2008)

I agree. It's hard to know how to handle these big dogs sometimes. Slapping on the nose is not ok, and it will eventually cause the dog to snap and defend himself. I'm not a 100% positive trainer, I do believe my boy needs a physical correction or redirection sometimes... However a slap on the nose does not teach him anything... A physical correction has to have meaning for the dog and he has to learn the appropriate behaviours. Jmho. I don't mean to offend, as I have been in your shoes. 


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## Kathrynehalliday (Jan 11, 2012)

For the record, I had a very stern talk with Steve. I do not know why he was so upset with Phoenix as I thought it wasn't a big deal... I told him he should not ever do it again. I can only pray that he will follow, I told him, if he does something and is caught red handed or "pawed" that he should be put in another room by himself for a while, as goldens are as I see, in need of people, and isolating him for a short while has been effective when he was younger, and I hope Steve will follow it while I'm at work.

I know Phoenix just got over an ear infection, but he's never ever even slightly shown any aggression, or issues with anything. I used to stick my hand in the food bowl as he was eating to see what would happen (I started off only near his food) and he just looks at it, surprised to see it there and looks at me almost asking if he can have his food back. 

I wanted to only make him feel a bit guilty for going where he isn't supposed to, and being caught for it... I just don't want to reinforce him needing to only go when I'm not around...

Maybe it was wrong of me, but I taught him myself. I am very proud of him and his learning. (Steve has only been around full time for just over a year) I do not have the money to afford a trainer. I did train him with positive reinforcement, his training, his tricks, has always been about the good things, and never the bad things - Steve unfortunately doesn't see that way about training him - and I am now training Steve on it. I have always been confused though that training i believe cannot be 100% positive, you see him or catch him doing something wrong, and have to say NO, or show him it's wrong, but then try to immediately show him what is right, and when he does it right, praise him. Maybe because that's the way I have always tried to train him, that he's having that issue with Steve and not me?


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## Kathrynehalliday (Jan 11, 2012)

I also do not take offence to anything said, I am very happy for suggestions and different points of view.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

I agree with the others, do not hit Phoenix. Positive reinforcement works best.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Dogs do need boundaries and rules, and yes, they do need to 'corrected' at times but those corrections do not need to be physical. A simple UhUh in a firm voice, or 'wrong' is enough to let the dog know he has made a mistake but then immediately tell him what you want him to do.


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## Maddie'sMom2011 (Apr 26, 2011)

It sounds to me as though Steve's the one who needs the tap on the nose for correction.


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## Leslie B (Mar 17, 2011)

I would be extremely cautious taking advise on this, or any forum, about behavior this serious. 

Growling, snapping, showing teeth in an adult dog toward a person should be addressed with a professional. You cannot afford not to consult with one.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Leslie B said:


> I would be extremely cautious taking advise on this, or any forum, about behavior this serious.
> 
> Growling, snapping, showing teeth in an adult dog toward a person should be addressed with a professional. You cannot afford not to consult with one.


I agree with this piece of advice. We all have opinions on what caused this but you need to see a behaviorist to make sure it never happens again and/or escalates. 


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

If I lightly tap my boy on the end of his nose with my finger and tell him "No" there is absolutely no way he's going to growl or snap at me. I do not hit my dogs period and have never used physical correction for anything, my hands are for pats, love and belly rubs. But, saying that this is all Steve's fault for what could amount to touching the end of a dogs nose with a finger waggle is ridiculous. 

The dog is saying that he wants to be with you and did not want to be corrected for his behaviour. He may have growled because he was nervous but this is simply speculation on all our parts. Consult or meet with someone who is able to assist you with the matter in person....not online.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Kathrynehalliday said:


> Phoenix walked down the stairs and he turned to go into the laundry room (where he's not allowed to be) tried to quietly push the door open, unsuccessfully cause it squeaked so I said his name, and he quickly tucked his tail and walked over to me... Steve then called Phoenix to the door and pointed him to the door, Steve then tapped him on the nose for going into that room, and told him NO, but for the first time EVER, Phoenix turned and growled at Steve, so Steve punished him again. Phoenix then actually snarled at Steve... I am absolutely shocked at Phoenix and am taking it definately as a sign there is something wrong... I am terrified of what this means and am scared it will happen again and I want to fix it and have NO idea what is actually going on or how to fix it. The question is... was it the fact that Phoenix was tired of Steve punishing him by slapping his nose (which steve does all the time) or is it a dominance thing?? There has been a suggestion that he's entering a 'rebellious' stage? and What the heck do I do? I would appreciate any answers or suggestions....


My opinion, this is definitely him getting tired of being slapped on the nose. Wouldn't you get tired of it?

What he did was tell Steve he didn't like it, in the only communication/vocalization a dog is capable of. Instead of respecting that communication Steve slapped him again? If the first protest didn't work and in fact he got hit again, it's completely understandable he would make his point more adamantly.

This is a message, listen to him and don't put him in the position he feels he needs to make his point more forcefully. 

HITTING HIM IN THE FACE HAS TO STOP. Or he will feel pushed to be more clear he doesn't like it, and possibly bite.

And if that happens it will not be the dogs fault.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Kathrynehalliday said:


> Maybe it was wrong of me, but I taught him myself. I am very proud of him and his learning. (Steve has only been around full time for just over a year) I do not have the money to afford a trainer. I did train him with positive reinforcement, his training, his tricks, has always been about the good things, and never the bad things - Steve unfortunately doesn't see that way about training him - and I am now training Steve on it. I have always been confused though that training i believe cannot be 100% positive, you see him or catch him doing something wrong, and have to say NO, or show him it's wrong, but then try to immediately show him what is right, and when he does it right, praise him. Maybe because that's the way I have always tried to train him, that he's having that issue with Steve and not me?


This is the right way to train, you have done it correctly. No, or Ah Ah, and then show them the right thing is not negative training. 

Hitting him in the face is wrong and teaches him nothing except to fear you, or in this case Steve. If Steve continues to do this Phoenix will only learn to fear him, and a fearful dog can become a biter out of fear.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

Braccarius;2053802[B said:


> ]If I lightly tap my boy on the end of his nose with my finger and tell him "No" there is absolutely no way he's going to growl or snap at me.[/B] I do not hit my dogs period and have never used physical correction for anything, my hands are for pats, love and belly rubs. But, saying that this is all Steve's fault for what could amount to touching the end of a dogs nose with a finger waggle is ridiculous.


I agree! Simply tapping to correct is not going to make a dog aggresive. However she did say "tap" at first and then later said "slap" I think there is more to the story.


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

You said Steve slaps the dog's nose all the time. There's your answer. Slap Steve every time he does something that you think is wrong (whether Steve KNOWS it's wrong or not) and see how long it takes until he he goes after you. End of story. Make your bully of a boyfriend/husband stop putting his hands on the dog....period.


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## mainegirl (May 2, 2005)

Finn's Fan said:


> You said Steve slaps the dog's nose all the time. There's your answer. Slap Steve every time he does something that you think is wrong (whether Steve KNOWS it's wrong or not) and see how long it takes until he he goes after you. End of story. Make your bully of a boyfriend/husband stop putting his hands on the dog....period.


I am glad someone said this...... Too often i've seen the end result of a dog biting because of this, then the dog is blamed and labeled a vicious dog, esp. if someone even moves accidentally like the abuser has. any good behaviorist will see what is causing this reaction and it is usually the owner that has to change behavior so the dog can change behavior.
beth, moose and angel


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