# Hiring a professional handler



## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I've shown my puppy 2 times in the 9-12 month. She does well, but I'm a mess. Plus I don't know how to get out of her what I need for the judge because I don't know what the judge is looking for. So my breeder told me at the last show, that my puppy needs to be shown by a professional handler otherwise finishing her is going to be difficult. My breeder introduced me to a handler she thought I should use. I do know some other handlers in town that do a good job.

So for anyone that has hired a professional handler, what questions should I be asking this person? I know the rates for handling and I know some handlers groom too. Any thoughts about other questions?


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## vleffingwell (Jan 12, 2011)

I need to send mine out too but I can't bear to part with her for that length of time! I would go to a show and watch the handler with other dogs and make sure you are ok with them before sending off your dog. 
I started taking handling classes and they helped a lot.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

I would ask how the house the dogs at the show--do they stay in the building overnight, take them back to their hotel, or crate them in their RV with them. Clarify if they want the dog to be entered the whole weekend, or if they will allow you to chose which judges to show to. Clarify whether the handling fee is for regular classes only, or do they charge extra for handling in the group, and for placements. Do their rates include ring-prep grooming, and if you are not capable of grooming to highlight strengths and minimize weaknesses what do they charge for a full show groom (some will include it, some will charge extra.) The ones I like to use keep it simple, charge a flat rate and include all the services, and do not demand you enter under all the judges at a weekend show if they will not appreciate the dog. They also have the breed experience to know who likes what style, and who likes what handlers to know if it is worth the $$ to enter.

I show my own dogs, usually from Bred-by, but I will use a handler if there is a good panel and I am unable to attend because of a conflict like a hunt test. I was truly awful when I started, but took lots of classes and just worked at it. You will not get better unless you get in there and do it!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Thanks for the encouragement. Alaska's shows are few and far betweena and the shows are small. we have a hard time getting a 3 pt show. Normally they cluster 2 on a weekend and most are held here in town. So Lucy would come home with me at night. The handler would only train with her and work with her during the show. I'll do the set up and any transportation. My breeder and I did the grooming last time. The handler makes her living by boarding and grooming. She lives about an hour away. The idea was for her to work some with Lucy before the show. I'll still do show and go classes and fun matches with her. I think we did ok showing in our only 2 shows we've done. But it's expensive and time consuming, so I thought the handler route would be quicker to a finish. I know I could never afford to send Lucy on down to the States or Canada for showing, so I'll attempt to finish up here. Since most shows are within a 10 minute drive from my house I'll take advantage of that option. We are headed to Fairbanks for the cluster on Memorial Day weekend. Hope it's warm up there by then!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Handlers create a culture around them in many ways, and for me there needs to be a fit. Now, we have a handler who is not only talented, but is warm, friendly, organized, honest, and sportsmanlike (Karen Mammano). We also have a lot of fun with Graeme Burdon from ringside, and for youngsters a fresh face- Sarah Crepeau. It takes some trial and error to find the right handler for both the dog and the people, but the journey is worth it. We used a handler who was a terrible fit for us and made shows nervewracking and no fun, and it was constant stress. Yet, she is an excellent handler and others like working with her. Step back to observe at shows to see how a prospective handler cares for his/her dogs when no one is watching etc, unless someone you truly trust like your breeder is sure of that person. Notice if they show most of the dogs listed in the catalog under their names personally, or hand to an assistant too.


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

It seems like it might be a more satisfactory experience in the long run to gain the skills you need to handle your dog yourself and have a closer bond. However, if it's indeed true that much of judging is about a judge's personal preferences (as noted in an earlier post), then it may be worth the money to you for a handler to have the inside track.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I had a trainer say that a judge makes a decision about your dog as you walk I the ring and that they don't like amateurs. I heard that but still told every judge as I walked into the ring about my inexperience. They were both very polite and helpful. So I don't know what is true. All I know is its very hard to get judges to come to Alaska (especially in the winter)! Our specialty is coming in June. I will show myself in there. I may change ownership on my puppy so her breeder can also show her and open up one more opportunity for her to win.


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## tikiandme (May 16, 2010)

I wouldn't mention your inexperience unless you goof up big time and feel the need to explain. Just go in there and try to act like you're an experienced handler with oodles of confidence, even if you don't feel very confident. The more you show, the more confident you will feel, and that travels down the lead to your dog. And there are judges out there that will judge your dog, not who's handling. Good luck. And have fun!!!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

To update:
I met with the handler and one of her daughters. She handles and so do 2 of her daughters. What a nice group of people. They were professional and knowledgeable. They will also do the show grooming for me before and during the show. I'll just dremel the nails and brush/comb her. 

So for the first time I got to see real handlers take Lucy around the ring. Lucy just flows and stacks so nicely. They did such a great job showing how Lucy should do in the ring. I really enjoyed sitting back and not having to do the work. So I can definitely relax knowing that this handler family will do well with Lucy. The handlers are very straightforward people which I really liked. I need to know what I'm doing right and wrong between now and the next shows.

The nice part about the handlers was hearing their honest opinions about Lucy. They felt she should be easy to finish and had very few faults to worry about. She just needed show training. So we agreed to a schedule to work together 2X per week so that we can get Lucy up to speed. They did say that Lucy is in excellent shape and is not overweight. We discussed all the do's and don't's between now and the next shows which are Memorial Day weekend. It's a lot to think about. Now I'm hoping for a really cold spring so she doesn't blow her coat between now and then.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Why would you need to change ownership on your dog so the breeder can show her??? She can show her in bred-by or sweeps as the breeder. I think if you want to try to show yourself you should, but I know it's a hard thing to learn. It is much easier once a dog is trained or it's like the blind leading the blind a bit  I was never able to show Jack myself, he just thinks it's playtime with me, but my girls I have tried. It is definitely not as easy as it looks, and I am still learning too! 

As for handlers, something I didn't see mentioned is to wait to spend the money on a handler until your dog is ready to win. Obviously, showing here and there for ring training is beneficial, but I made the mistake of showing my Jack quite a bit as a puppy. If I had waited until he was a little more mature he would have finished very quickly, but I loved going to shows so I had him out a lot. It was just a waste of money though, in hindsight. We ended up with a bazillion reserves, a point from the puppy classes, and then once he hit open he finished very quickly. I wish I had just waited until he was in Open and ready to win. So that's something to think about if finances are an issue. 

I have had Smooch (who just turned 1) with a handler twice when we have been on vacation, for training only. She is a dream to show....anyone can show her and she is happy. She was very naughty initially though, so the training was wonderful for her. For now I am showing her myself until it is clear I will either 1) not be able to finish her myself; or 2) don't have the time to show her and she is ready to be in the ring. 

With Kira I tried showing myself, but she is a unique dog, in that, she is almost too smart for the show ring. She gets bored and will show fine for me, but I know "fine" is not what it takes to win here in CA. She has a wonderful personality, but I just can't get it out of her in the ring. So she will be going to the handler who finished Jack once she is mature looking and ready to win. I think she will need that extra push by someone much more experienced than me to do well. 

As for choosing a handler, I totally agree....watch how they care for the dogs. Talk to people who have used the handler and ask their honest opinion. I have only been showing in conformation a short time, and I have seen/heard some things that just make me sick. Handlers taking dogs they don't think they can finish, or even put a point on, just for the money; dogs being not cared for properly to the point of pottying in their crates; dogs coming home with severe hot spots or ear/eye infections that went unnoticed by the handlers; dogs being mistreated by kennel help; etc etc. None of that is worth it to me to finish my dog. It's still just a dog show!


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Definitely agree about waiting to show seriously until they are ready to win. I do get my guys out a bit as puppies to get them used to the scene, but do not start to show seriously until they are 3-4 years old and in their prime (and even then I pick and chose my judges!) It may be a bit different up in AK where there are only a couple of shows a year. these may be the only shows for the pup to get that experience!!

The only reason I can see your needing to have the breeder as a co-owner is if she thinks she wants to show from Bred-by, as there the breeder must be a co-owner or sole owner of the dog. She can show in any of the other classes, just like a pro handler could. Unless she is worried about losing her amateur status by showing a dog owned by someone else. But I cannot really see it as a problem--breeders show dogs of their breeding all the time, and as long as she does not accept payment, then amateur status is not jeopardized.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

sterregold said:


> The only reason I can see your needing to have the breeder as a co-owner is if she thinks she wants to show from Bred-by, as there the breeder must be a co-owner or sole owner of the dog. She can show in any of the other classes, just like a pro handler could. Unless she is worried about losing her amateur status by showing a dog owned by someone else. But I cannot really see it as a problem--breeders show dogs of their breeding all the time, and as long as she does not accept payment, then amateur status is not jeopardized.


I forgot about that rule for bred-by. Obviously I don't show in that class!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

So many things to learn about. The handler is only going to take care of grooming and in the ring. I'll handle the transportation, setup, housing, etc. So it's not a big deal financially since I'm only paying for that little bit of work. So I think it's worthwhile for her as a puppy to get this kind of training. Since we have so few shows. We have the 3 at Memorial Day weekend, our specialty in June, then a couple in July. No more shows until November. I also want to have her ready to show next year when I hope her mother is finished. I know that timing is everything. And yes as a puppy she can't win points right now in the 9-12 month class right? Her breeder asked to keep her out of the July shows and just end the year at our June specialty. I thought it was a good plan. I'm hoping that paying for a handler will get her on a quicker path to finishing. It took her father 16 shows down in the States to finish a few years back. Up here we have a difficult time getting enough dogs to have a 3 pt major.

The sad part is Lucy's coat is super awesome right now. I'm hoping spring doesn't come too fast so she stays in coat. I've been told only bath her in cold water or not at all so that she doesn't blow coat. I'm also getting her out a lot in the cold so that she doesn't warm up too much. We have lots of snow right now and still pretty cold at night. But Memorial Day is still a 6 weeks out. How do you keep a coat on a dog in the spring time?


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

She can most certainly win points from 9-12! As for finishing in 16 days of shows....I will say at least where I live, that is very unusual. I'm sure it happens but most dogs are shown more than 16 days in California!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

At the March shows, my crate was next to a woman showing a Cavalier King Charles. He won 9 points that weekend. He was only 11 months old. How amazing is that! He got 6 points one day and 3 the next. I'm not totally sure how it worked on the 6 points. I'm not up to speed on all the ways you can get points. But half way to finishing in one weekend. The dog was also owner-handled. But the owner had tons of experience with goldens and cavaliers.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Five is the most you can get in one day. So either the owner did not understand how points are counted, or the dog's win the first day put him _up to_ six points, with another three earned the next day. The speed at which a Ch can be earned is going to vary by breed. The breeder from whom my CKCS comes was often able to finish his dogs in a couple of weekends, often going BOB as puppies. It really depends on the quality of the dogs, and the level of competition in the area.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Awarding points is definitely a gray area for me. I apologize for not knowing more about conformation shows.

So here's how she said she won 6 pts, which I know very little about the whole thing. He won BOB and best opposite. So he got his points and the girls points for a total of 6 points. I did some searching online to find the record, but I couldn't find anything on that show except for wins by group. He did not win or place in the group. So I'd love to say it was done by X method, but I'm not totally sure how it worked. I will send a note to my breeder since she was standing next to me during the conversation and see if she can explain to me how the points were awarded. When I hear back from her I will post her explanation. I wish I could find the record online, so if anyone could find it online, please post the link.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I'm going to pull the show book tonight and see if I can remember the dog's name. I'll look it up on the AKC points website. Maybe that will give a breakdown.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

No six points. You can still only get 5 points in a single show, regardless of going BOS, or BOB. If the dog going WD also goes BOS, you add the number of Champions of the same sex defeated to to the total number of dogs competing in that sex. If WD goes BOW, and there were more points in bitches, then he would be awarded the same number of points available in bitches. And going BOB, you add the total number of CHs to the total number of dogs defeated. 

So if there were five class males entered, his WD would have been worth 4 points. And if there were three CHs, that he beat to go BOB, then his total number of dogs defeated was seven. It takes 6 males for 5 points in CKCS in Alaska, 5 for 4 points, 4 for 3 points, 3 for 2 points, and 2 for 1 point. 


One dog also cannot be BOB and BOS, because BOS is best of Opposite Sex _to the Best of Breed_! He would have been Winners Dog, Best of Winners, and Best of Breed, though.

Was this the Tanana and Alaska KC shows? From the AKC site, there was a Ch entered that got BOB both days. There were only enough dogs (2) for 1 point in males. Both were in 9-12 puppy. So the first place boy in the class was WD. There were five bitches entered though, which is 3 points in female CKCS. The puppy boy who went WD went BOS each day, so he gets to count the same number of points as WB, which is three for each day. So he got 6 points over the two days. I am wondering if that is what she meant--he got 6 points at the show all together. To be on 9 he would have needed three from another time.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Jack Onofrio Dog Shows - Show Results
Here's the link to the show results for anyone else reading this. This link is for the Tanana Valley show only. I honestly don't remember the name of the woman I was speaking to. My breeder is at work, so I probably won't know until tomorrow. I may have misunderstood that he already had 3 points that's the only thing I can think of. Thank you for the information.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

I just looked it up in AKC! Once they have processed the results you can see it there as well. You just click through on the group and then the breed and you can see all of the placements as well as the points awarded. The points listed by the CHs are for GCH competition.
http://www.akc.org/events/search/in...E1=&key_stkhldr_event=118518385&mixed_breed=N

The judge they had on Saturday for CKCS and Toy group was Gloria Kerr--a terrific Golden breeder-judge!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Gloria Kerr was very nice, she was my very first judge. 

I talked to my breeder the pup did have 3 pts going into the competition which I misunderstood. I thought it meant he achieved all those points at one time. The points thing is very confusing at times.

We only had 2 judges that weekend. The judges were really scrambling to make it all work. There were supposed to be 3, but one had bad weather back east and didn't make it up.


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