# Alpha Dog?????



## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I think that the vet got inside your head and it's freaking you out.

I think I would be finding a new vet if they thought putting a puppy on his back and holding him there (alpha rolling him) is the right way to handle him. It could be that his is a bit sore back in his testicle area. Puppies have less restraint than older dogs and if something hurts them, they tend to snap a bit more easily.

I think he is just being a puppy and the vet labeling him as an "alpha" is not appropriate. Google NILIF and start using it if that makes you feel better. It elevates your status in the pack, basically. Without using brute force to prove that you are bigger than he is.

Good luck!


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## Joanne & Asia (Jul 23, 2007)

I agree with Fostermoms comments and would definately start using the NILF method. I'm sure the obedience classes will help as well. The landshark stuff will ease as he gets older but for now just work on letting him know you are the pack leader. If he is alpha this will take care of that and ensure it doesn't escalate.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I agree with Fostermom. I don't think the vet should have reacted that way or told you that about a puppy. He is not aggressive, he is a baby using his mouth the way puppies do with each other. Be sure to keep a toy handy to put in his mouth in place of your skin every single time he goes for you. He will grow out of this stage, but be consistent on redirecting him to a toy.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I agree with everyone else. The thing that struck me was he touched his private area and maybe it was painful, goodness knows it is for men. The puppy kindergarden will help alot for wearing him out and also socialization. Dont let what the vet said freak you out because then you will act different and he will pick up on it. They are little land sharks at that age and he sounds normal to me.


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## wagondog (Aug 24, 2007)

I think you may have a very normal pup, some spots on a dogs body must be approached with caution until a trust is built up between the dog and the person touching. the vet was wrong to alpha roll your dog and should be told so. You guys will be fine.......LandSharkitis can be easily dealt with in very positive ways


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## mojo's mommy (Jun 29, 2009)

Thanks for the support & encouragment. The more people I speak with and the more time I spend with Mojo... the more I realize how out-of-line and just plain wrong the vet was. Mojo is definitely a healthy, happy golden puppy... your typical Land Shark! LOL! 

Mojo had his first bath yesterday and the big baby whined & leapt into my arms as though I was his rescuer...covering my face with kisses and nuzzling my neck! Hubby laughed and said... "what kind of Alpha male are you???"

I think a change of vet is in our near future...

Thanks again!


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

I am very annoyed at your Vet. He handled this poorly.

Alpha dog does not mean Aggressive. It means he thinks he's the Boss".

I will say I have heard of his technique used before. I'm not sure if it's a good one or not, but I've certainly seen it before.

This is not a new or abnormal problem. I'm not trained to help you deal with it, so I'll leave it to others. But I know it can be dealt with.

Oh, and btw... When I checked Gilmour for proper 'droppage' when he was around 15 weeks old, he was a bit annoyed as well.

I forgot to tell him to turn his head and cough 




mojo's mommy said:


> Help! When I took Mojo to the vet last Friday during the examination, the Vet checked to see if his testicles were disended and Mojo went kinda bezerk... barking, growling, snapping... etc. The vet immediately turned him on his back and held his legs and very firmly repeated NO... Mojo whined and calmed. Ok.
> 
> Then the vet proceed to tell me that Mojo is a dominant Alpha Dog... he's going need a firm hand, lots of socializing, training etc. Still OK... sorta.
> 
> ...


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I do agree with everyone else. The vet really seems to have been out of line, and to alpha-roll a pup? This just seems wrong. 

Yes, your pup will need socialization but all pups and dogs do. This is how they learn what is normal and what is not.

I had a truly alpha golden, and what this dog could do with a room full of misbehaving pups was amazing. Just a look and the pups (and dogs) would stop lunging or whatever. Walk this dog onto show grounds and not one dog walked in front of him or got into his face. He never growled nor showed unwarranted aggression (once a burglar in the house; which I consider warranted). BTW: He was a very friendly dog to both people and animals but the other dogs knew not to mess with him, play was good messing not so much.


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## mojo's mommy (Jun 29, 2009)

Puppy Training begins tomorrow... so let the socializing begin! Yay!

Though I feel like a nervous mommy sending her baby to Kindergarten. I hope the other pups like him!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

mojo's mommy said:


> Puppy Training begins tomorrow... so let the socializing begin! Yay!
> 
> Though I feel like a nervous mommy sending her baby to Kindergarten. I hope the other pups like him!


Grins - they'll love him  I am starting my 15 month old foster in an Obedience 101 class tomorrow - she'll probably be the oldest one there:. 

Good luck at the class; it can be very tiring the first several weeks and you may be close to tears at how much there is to teach, but then it really becomes fun pretty quick.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

Gilmour has been socialized two ways. First, with the next-door neighbor's kids when he was a young puppy.

And in another way I've never been able to do before. He goes for visits at the breeders from time to time, meets his mom, and 4 or 5 other dogs. He is quite exhausted when he comes home 

And no one socializes the pup like Mom does! He hunkers down on his tummy and crawls up to her. It's a rather amusing sight to see, especially now that he's above 40 pounds.


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## Jerseygirl (Jan 22, 2009)




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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

I would be absolutely FURUIOUS if my vet did that to my puppy...and the vet would know about it too. That was WAY out of order for him to presume that you would even want him to do that...I would not want any dog of mine treated by a vet that had such an aggressive and out of date approach to dogs...the Practice manager would also be hearing from me...


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

Then the vet proceed to tell me that Mojo is a dominant Alpha Dog... he's going need a firm hand, lots of socializing, training etc. Still OK... sorta.

As we were leaving she handing me some reading about "Aggressive Dogs"! That freaked me out.

The above information makes the hair on my neck stand on end. IMO, your vet may be very good at medicine but doesn't have a grasp of the behavior sciences when interacting with dogs.

Your puppy is a baby that doesn't know the rules as of yet. Puppies experience much of their world through their mouths. They experience touch and taste through their mouth. They instinctively use their mouth to protect themselves, they use their mouth as we use our hands.

Alpha and aggression are not the same.

An Alpha dog will only use force as a last resort. They can use doggie language to make their suggestions and commands known most of the time without force. Think of an Alpha as a kind leader.

As stated by Myrna Milani, DVM, author and veterinary ethologist: 
_"...the mark of a true leader is the ability to control without force. And, in fact, wild animals who rely on brute force to maintain their status typically get eliminated from the gene pool because this approach requires so much energy."_ ​
http://www.4pawsu.com/dogpsychology.htm

The link above has some really good articles on alpha and dominance.

Mojo sounds like a normal puppy that just doesn't know the rules yet. Many times in puppy classes they will teach you to get the puppy familar with being touched by you, vets and others so the puppy isn't scared or startled during exams.​


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

mojo's mommy said:


> I'm becoming more concerned with the biting as well. I know "land shark" behavior is normal... but that seems like his ONLY behavior. He never plays with us unless he is biting. If this is normal and he'll grow out of it... yay! But what if it's not?



Absolutely normal. I was always so jealous of people with adorable pictures holding puppies, because until Sam was about 4 months old I could barely touch him without getting bitten up!! It does pass with constant training and bite inhibition and redirection to appropriate chew toys. 

And I agree with everyone, you vet was definitely out of line. I would be looking for a new one personally.


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## chloe920 (Apr 5, 2009)

I understand your concern. But I would not jump the gun and label him as aggressive. 

I unfortunately I had a dog that was aggressive, by every definition. I loved him dearly, and he tried his best, but he was never meant to be a domesticated dog (he was in inuit sled dog from Iqaluit) that I got from the dog catcher at 3 weeks of age. It's a long, sad story that doesn't end well, but my point is this, that truly dominant behaviour is impossible to ignore or miss for that matter. If this is the first time you had ever seen your dog as aggressive, I would not get worried. 

I'm sure as he ages, he will grow out of the biting phase. Chloe was a biter as a young pup and since i have young children, I used to spray their arms and the tails of their clothing with bitter apple every morning before they went into the yard to play. This pretty much discouraged the behaviour right away.

good luck. Feel free to PM me if you want specific details of my other dogs behaviour as a pup which lead to problems later on.

L.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

chloe920 wrote:"I unfortunately I had a dog that was aggressive, by every definition. I loved him dearly, and he tried his best, but he was never meant to be a domesticated dog (he was in inuit sled dog from Iqaluit) that I got from the dog catcher at 3 weeks of age."

Wow, 3 weeks! According to the link below your pup missed all the initial learning.  Loving and caring for your pup must have been heartbreaking for you.


The link below gives information on 5 critical periods during a puppys life. 

http://www.vanerp.net/ilse/GSDINFO/understandyourpuppy.htm

_From the Complete Dog training Manual by Bruce Sessions_

"During this period (21st to 28th day) the new puppy needs its mother more than at any other time. The brain and nervous system begin to develop. Awareness begins to take place, and in this mental state, a puppy's experiences can be rather frightening. *A puppy removed from its mother during this second critical period will never attain the mental and emotional growth that it could*."


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## chloe920 (Apr 5, 2009)

He was my baby, I bottle fed him Similac (it was all that was available to me up there at the time) and he was so sick he almost died. But after a few weeks, he started to come around and then we began to notice some behavioral issues. Had I known more about proper puppy socialization, I would have probably tried to get him into a litter of similar age even if it was just for a few hours a day to get some socialization. Hindsight is always 20/20. 

But I loved him for as long as I could, the best way I could. You were never really able to snuggle with him or lay with him on the bed, he just wouldn't allow it. But he was my baby and I miss him.



L.


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## Phillyfisher (Jan 9, 2008)

I went to a coworker's vet when we first got Tucker, rather than going the vet we use for our cat. He gave his new vet such a great recommendation, I figured we would try it. He did the same thing to Tucker, and Tucker did not like it or him. He told me I needed to pin Tucker to show him who is boss. I felt really uncomfortable with him. Needless to say a couple of days later I took Tucker to our vet. You know what? Tucker was completely different! He loved them and let them do what ever they needed to him. Find a new vet. Your pup is normal.


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## Sparky's Sidekick (Nov 7, 2007)

I feel that the vet was very wrong. I just hope that your pup hasn't developed a fear of vets because of it. Sometimes all it takes is one bad experience to develop fear and or anxiety in similar situations.


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