# Golden Agressivity issue 4 months old



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm sorry you're facing issues with your puppy. Do you practice regular basic obedience with him? (Sit, down, stay etc.?) Do you go to a class or practice at home? 

Could you explain a little more about what you mean by "special submission with Leash conditioning"? I am familiar with having the puppy drag a leash around the house so that he can easily be handled without grabbing his collar, but I don't understand why the trainer would say you shouldn't speak to the dog (tell him "off" when you are removing him from the couch for example). 

I can tell you that you will receive concern here that by forcing your puppy to submit you will be making any fear issues he has much worse. Also, by giving him a meat bone or other food treat and then taking it from him, you are reinforcing his fear that you want to steal his food. Your puppy is still so young that you have a wonderful chance of overcoming the problems with gentle, positive methods. Many dogs are possessive of bones and food and teaching the dog to "trade" for a better, more valuable (to the dog) treat is a good way of working on this. The mother may have passed on some genetic component to his behavior, but that doesn't mean it's a lost cause.

I am sure you will receive more input here, it sounds like you have a big project ahead of you. Are you and your wife able to make sure your puppy gets daily exercise and playtime outside your apartment? I know in winter it can be a challenge, but it would help him feel better to be getting proper exercise.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I have watched your video, I don't see an 'aggressive dog', I see a pup that has learned through experience that you will 'steal' what he has. Your pup has great bite inhibition (he could have bitten but he didn't) - a good thing! His behavior is as 'normal' (inate) as one can expect when a pup has a high value item (a bone) that he doesn't want you to steal. Don't give him bones (or if you do - leave him alone with them- he deserves that much) start teaching him to trade for non-food items. When he has something, offer him a treat, when he drops the item, feed the treat and give him back the item. Repeat often and with as many non-food items as you can.
Please understand that 'alpha rolling' him will be percieved by him as an 'attack' and make him distrustful of you (as will 'stealing' things from him). He is not trying to 'run you' or 'take over' - he doesn't know what you want from him because he hasn't been taught (yet)- it takes time,repetition, consistency and patience. Your pup (any pup) needs training, - show/teach him what you want him to do, and reward him for doing it - he will repeat it when he understands what you want. Your pup (any pup) needs socializing - exposed to the 'real world' and creating positive associations with it. He barks and lunges at dogs and people because he is likely excited to see them - he's a pup. Teach him to sit to greet people. If you can, take him to classes or playtimes or get together with other people who have dog friendly dogs, where he can appropriately and safely socialize with other dogs - he needs to know how to do that.


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## Danielu (Dec 28, 2012)

nolefan said:


> I'm sorry you're facing issues with your puppy. Do you practice regular basic obedience with him? (Sit, down, stay etc.?) Do you go to a class or practice at home?
> 
> Could you explain a little more about what you mean by "special submission with Leash conditioning"? I am familiar with having the puppy drag a leash around the house so that he can easily be handled without grabbing his collar, but I don't understand why the trainer would say you shouldn't speak to the dog (tell him "off" when you are removing him from the couch for example).
> 
> ...


Yes, we were practising the regular basic obedience with him even before we started going to the dog trainer. Unfortunately we didn`t use NO, just Sit, Down, Stay. It is a sort of private training outside where people, dogs and cars are around in order for the dog to get used with them, and increase the difficulty of the above mentioned commands. It was nice that he already knew the commands before training. 

Regarding the "special submission with Leash conditioning" I think I didn`t make it so clear what I wanted to say. The trainer had a little hard time with us at the beginning. In the video it is obvious that our tone was not a good one at that time and in order to keep the little Snow calm he advised that at the beginning it's ok for him to understand what we mean from our gestures. He also said that just a word "down" + leash slow drag will make him understand that he has to get down from the couch. That was true and 90% of times it works just fine. He is also trying less to get on the couch.

Yes he stays about 3 hours/day with me/my wife or my sister. I`ll explain in the next post which things give us some hard time outside


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## Danielu (Dec 28, 2012)

Charliethree said:


> I have watched your video, I don't see an 'aggressive dog', I see a pup that has learned through experience that you will 'steal' what he has. Your pup has great bite inhibition (he could have bitten but he didn't) - a good thing! His behavior is as 'normal' (inate) as one can expect when a pup has a high value item (a bone) that he doesn't want you to steal. Don't give him bones (or if you do - leave him alone with them- he deserves that much) start teaching him to trade for non-food items. When he has something, offer him a treat, when he drops the item, feed the treat and give him back the item. Repeat often and with as many non-food items as you can.
> Please understand that 'alpha rolling' him will be percieved by him as an 'attack' and make him distrustful of you (as will 'stealing' things from him). He is not trying to 'run you' or 'take over' - he doesn't know what you want from him because he hasn't been taught (yet)- it takes time,repetition, consistency and patience. Your pup (any pup) needs training, - show/teach him what you want him to do, and reward him for doing it - he will repeat it when he understands what you want. Your pup (any pup) needs socializing - exposed to the 'real world' and creating positive associations with it. He barks and lunges at dogs and people because he is likely excited to see them - he's a pup. Teach him to sit to greet people. If you can, take him to classes or playtimes or get together with other people who have dog friendly dogs, where he can appropriately and safely socialize with other dogs - he needs to know how to do that.


We have indeed made some mistakes at the beginning, mistakes we are doing all the best not to repeat (giving the bone, trying to confront him, alpha rolling etc.).

Socializing with people/dogs/kids is ongoing. With people it's getting better and what you suggested with Sit it's almost happening with down. However he is hackling up to some people (if that's not the word then this image should reflect the behaviour). I`m concerned about him having this behaviour with all dogs. So far he has only showed signs of aggression towards them even most of them just want to play or smell him. We first tought that these are signs of fear from his part, but the trainer said that it is definitely aggression because he is not only hackling up but he is also trying to dominate that dog.

Regarding the trade for dropping whatever he takes in his mouth, we are working on it for about 3 days and it really works. Unfortunately now it works only with food and I don't understand why he doesn't enjoy almost any toy. We have about 5 toys and he is getting bored of them in just few minutes.

Outside, unfortunately the situation is not pink as you would probably expect. Probably you don't know the actual conditions in Romanian parks, but I`ll explain them so you understand my exact concern. He loves a lot to take things in his mouth like soil, rocks, sticks, plastic bags, food wastes etc. So it is really dangerous because there are some small bones offered to stray dogs by "good people"; plastic bags also can be dangerous for him when swallowed. That's the issue that he is not just playing with things but he is also trying to eat them, so it's important to drop the dangerous things he "steals".
Also the "environment" has a lot of company dogs but also a lot of stray dogs which might come to you 4-5 at a time. 

Today we decided to go into a park which is a little far from our apartment but where there is less garbage on the ground. The big surprise was when an adult rotweiller without a leash was trying to smell us. He reacted like usual with no fear and I have dragged him and hoped that the rotweiller can control itself. Fortunately we were lucky that the rotweiller was properly trained by his owner. The sad thing is that most of the dogs in Romania are not trained at all and you can have some hard time with dogs used for company, not to mention stray dogs.

At the training classes at one out of two sessions there is also another dog to play with. Unfortunately so far he has showed only aggression signs and we had to stop that instead of letting them play.

Tomorrow we will have a new session, I`ll get back with a feedback 
Thanks for your good advice!


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

It sounds like you are making good progress. When you are trading him for something you must use food items to offer him that are more "valuable" than the item you want him to give up. Toys would generally not be valuable enough to get him to exchange.


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## Jen & Brew (Oct 11, 2012)

I don't really see an aggressive puppy, I see a very confused puppy.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

This is a game (training) to play that will help your pup to learn impulse control and learn that items laying around shouldn't be picked up.

Start playing (training) in low distraction areas such as your house/apartment. Start with low value food rewarding for higher value food. You can practice this with other items besides food such as the rocks/(garbage - such as food packages, plastic bags etc). Don't practice this with high value items such as that raw bone until your pup gives you good choices with the much lower value items.

Also work on the trade game. Your puppy needs to trust you that if he gives up an item he will be rewarded with something much better. It really takes a long time to build that trust up. Again do this at home often with low value items at home. When on a walk you can do the same for now. 

What you don't want to do is let your pup practice what he was doing in the video. As you say the mom seems to have issues so this probably has a genetic component to it. This means you have to help the pup feel safe and trust you so that the pup doesn't feel the need to protect items from you. It means you have to have good habits yourself so you don't put the pup into the position to feel the need to be protective of items.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Daniel - incearca comenzi scurte - Lasa, Jos, Sta, culcat.. Pentru Snow osul este de valoare foarte mare. Ce mananca de obicei? Incearca sa ii dai de mancare din mana (pumn)ca sa vada ca tu esti cel care ii da de mancare. La momentul de fata Snow crede ca o sa iei inapoi mancarea (mai ales mancarea de valoare). Doar dupa ce se obisnuieste ca sa manance din mana ta incearca sa iei niste friptura. Tu mananci din friptura de pe os si ii dai cate o bucatica de carne. Pune-o in gura is scoate-o din gura si dai la Snow cu mana (nu o arunca - lasa sa ia mancarea din mana). De fiecare data cand ii dai mancare dai inainte o comanda scurta (jos, stai - ce folosesti tu de obicei - scuze ca Romana mea (mai ales scrisa) nu este asa de buna dupa 20 de ani). Cand ia mancarea incurajeaza-l cu bine. O sa ia timp - dupa ce are incredere in tine dai de mancare si apoin iao inapoi, dai din nou mancarea. Incepe cu o bucata de paine uscata, cand lasa painea dai o bucata de carne sau branza.
Unde esti? Din prima poza arata ca esti undeva in Nord - cel puting dupa casa. Daca mergi in parc tine-l mai departe - pe marginea parcului - foloseste timpul ca sa vezi de la departare ceilalti caini. Daca vezi un caine care se comporta frumos incearca sa vorbesti cu "parintii" si sa vezi daca nu puteti sa va intalniti altundeva unde nu sunt gunoaie si caini salbatici. 
Din fericire, Snow este inca tanar si cu rabdare si persistenta o sa ai un caine frumos si bucuros.


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## Danielu (Dec 28, 2012)

@solinvictus: yes, we are doing something similar and we call it "resource limitation". Later on I`ll put a video with him "down" with bunch of treat in front of him and also 3 pieces near his month. He wait until I give the command free. In the apartment usually there is no issue doing that because he is in his environment and not distracted. Outside it is a little harder for him but he is doing perfect.
Also today at the training session he found 2 bones but not very attracted. I asked to leave it, he stopped leave the bone and get back to me to receive the reward 

@ Claudia M, incantat sa dau de un roman pe acest forum . Este foarte pretentios la mancare. Initial am inceput cu royal canin dar nu a mai mancat dupa o saptamana. Apoi am incercat Acana, la care a renuntat la fel dupa o saptamana si jumatate. Acana parea sa-i faca si probleme la stomac facand moale. Acum mananca Bosh, dar dupa o saptamana parea sa se plictiseasca si de ele. Pentru a nu-i mai schimba mancarea am decis sa-l ajutam cu putina branza de vaci peste bobite si momentan pare sa-i placa. Nu stiu exact ce vom face cu mancarea dar cel mai probabil vom lua o reteta de la un veterinar pentru mancare gatita. Nu este dificil de preparat si prefer asta decat sa tot incercam boabe sa manance o saptamana apoi sa le lase. Ca strategie pentru a-l obisnui pe boabe am inteles ca ar fi infometarea pentru 1 chiar 2 zile, insa cred c-o accepta pentru ca primeste destul de des recompensa carne de vita fiarta sau la gratar, iar eu presupun ca poate "sa traiasca" doar cu recompensa cateva zile bune. Consider ca nu merita efortul. In plus daca nu mananca 1-2 zile ok, nu doar ca nu isi mentine ritmul de crestere, dar si slabeste aprox. 1 kg. 
Am facut ce ai sugerat mai sus cu obiecte de genul: jucariile lui, servetel, punga plastic. Renunta f. usor la ele la comanda "lasa". Diferenta este ca eu ii aruncam recompensa jos pentru a-l indeparta de obiectul respectiv. Dupa toata atentia lui este catre mine si practic uita de respectivul obiectul. Am vazut un video pe care din pacate nu-l mai gasesc de nici o culoare si mi s-a parut foarte buna strategia. Dupa ce totul merge perfect cu recompensa obisnuita se poate trece la recompensa prin joc, dar asta mai tarziu cand va adora sa se joace.
Poza respectiva este de la bunici in Oltenia 
Noi stam in Bucuresti.

One recent picture:









And a video from this morning:


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

If you are in Bucharest - how are Herastrau & Cismigiu parks? They are normally pretty nice. I used to love walking there. That was 20+ years ago and remember seeing older ladies with their little toy dogs. I went to college there ASE. 
Snow will leave the kibble as it does not have as much value as the pig leg or bone. You just have to work your way up gradually to higher value treats. Also when you feed Snow, make him sit and give him the "asteapta" comand, Snow is not to start eating until you release him with "Bine". No matter how hungry he is or delicious the food, he should know that he cannot start eating until you release him. 

Cheese will help. Whenever Rose had softer stools I started giving her a half a banana. Now she eats almost an entire banana every morning half before breakfast and half after her morning walk. Also sometimes the softer stool are due to too much food intake or too much at one time. How much kibble does he eat a day? Does he eat three meals a day? We kept Rose on three meals a day until she she was 6 months old, worked up slowly from when she was 5 months to two meals by gradually reducing the middle meal and increasing the breakfast and dinner meal.


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## Danielu (Dec 28, 2012)

In Herastrau is fine with dogs, because there is a lot of space. Cismigiu being smaller it is crawdy most of the times. However we have to go to the park by car and he seems to have a sensibility (vomiting often). We are trying to minimize this since we are going about once at three days at training lessons. Previous times he didn't vomit anymore and I hope he will get used with car rides 

We are doing that(sit,wait, "liber") for about 2 weeks and works fine. The "issue" now is that he is barking at my wife when she is preparing food ). That's not happening so far with me . Also he doesn't have any aggresion regarding the food bowl. We used to put our hands since the beggining.

Nice to hear that he can eat bananas, I wasn't sure about that. He eat three meals / day, on average 2 kibble (kibble hope it is bowl ) because he doesn't finish it all the times.

Today he is 4 months and he has 16KG - 35 lbs.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Hand feed him while keeping the bowl in your hand. Start with all meals and then drop to two meals and then one. I would still hand feed him the treats as well. That way he will associate you and your wife with the food source. He is probably barking in anticipation of food. Rose is barking and growling at me when she wants to play and I ignore her. She used to run under the bed and bark from there to let us know she wanted to play hide and seek. Now she is almost too big to get her behind under there. 
As far as the car rides. First, I would make sure you wait a couple hours after the feeding time before you take him. Second, allow him to see out the window, on someone's lap for example. I would keep the window closed or semi-opened enough that he can smell outside.

We use bananas, cut up apples, carrots as treats!.They can't have grapes, garlic or onions - there is a list of veggies and fruits online. Dangerous Foods That Dogs Should Never Eat - WebMD Slideshow

Sorry - I do not follow the list literally. I do give Rose licks of icecream not a whole cone but a couple licks - she gets her own cup of icecream and it gets put in the freezer after a couple licks. And yes, I do give her little bits of pizza crust when we have pizza or meat bits from the table. Some of this stuff just goes a little over the top but it is a very good indication of what they can and cannot have. 

Happy Birthday Snow! Up until 12 months he has a birthday every month!


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## Dwyllis (Nov 22, 2012)

Firstly hello to you, your wife & young Snow. And a Happy New Year from New Zealand ...New Years Day over here. Snow is a very handsome boy. I have not watched the first video, but have watched the video where you are training him outside, & I think for four months old he is doing very well with the Leave It & Stay commands. He looks to be a smart boy & appears to train well. Re the barking at your wife when she is preparing his food, that is excitement & anticipation. My own young boy Loki sometimes does this ...used to always do it, but now at five & a half months old, not all the time. It has never worried me, I just ignore it & he will stop after a while. Re picking up everything in his mouth, Loki drove us crazy doing that .....stones were a particular favourite of his ....grass, dirt ( he would eat lots of dirt ). Thankfully he did not eat poop. I found out this is very common in puppies & my vet told me not to worry about it, but not to let him chew on stones, as could cause a bowel blockage which would require surgery. So we were constantly removing stones from his mouth ....every minute it seemed. On walks with him, I kept a close eye on the ground & either steered him away from things I do not want him eating, or said very firmly Leave It with a small tug on his lead. This usually worked very well for us & now he is much better. We had an issue with him chewing on his lead, making it very hard to walk him at around four months old. A member on here suggested to someone else with the same problem, to use a chain lead attached to his normal collar ( not a choke lead ..I would never use one of those). So we went out & bought a chain lead, clipped it onto his collar or harness, & that stopped the problem immediately as he did not like the feel of the chain in his mouth. When he has something in his mouth that we do not want him to have, we offer a high value treat ...not kibble ....something like a small piece of cheese or plain cooked sausage that he does not get often. He is then happy to drop what is in his mouth, in order to eat the tasty treat. Loki will normally give up items of clothing quite easily ...socks are his favourite, if he can find them. I will just take hold of the item & in a firm voice say Leave It & he will usually let it go, & then I give him lots of praise for being a good boy. I have never used the Alpha Roll, as I don't believe it is a good thing to do with a puppy. I used clicker trainer from eight weeks old ....my husband does not like using the clicker, so he says Yes! When Loki achieves, followed quickly by a treat. Our trainer says it is just as important to give brain exercise (mental stimulation) as it is to give physical exercise ....so e times even more important. So we use Kongs stuffed with kibble & a small amount of high value treats .....ice cubes made of chicken, beef & vegetable stock that he has to chase all over our polished floorboards in the kitchen ...he loves doing that & looks so pleased with himself when he manages to get it I to his mouth& crunches on it, which is great for sore gums as his adult teeth come in. Re the mouthing/ biting thing .....Loki used to do this when he was smaller & I was very firm with him, telling him No Bite! & offering him a chew stick or toy to chew on instead, holding it for him ...I never played tug with him, as our trainer said this can encourage aggression in some puppies. I hardly ever got nipped, but my husband was not so firm with him & he ended up bleeding on his hands & arms several times, from Loki's teeth or claws. My husband said Loki was an aggressive dog & I don't think he liked him very much. I encouraged my husband to watch for signs that Loki was getting too excited & about to start mouthing on him ....for example when he was rubbing Loki's fur, to stop the moment he saw Loki's mouth opening near his hand or arm, & to pull his hand slowly away & end the play session. Also I encouraged him to start feeding Loki some favourite bits of food by his hand & to engage in giving commands more. Loki would be well behaved with me, but naughty with my husband. After he started doing these things, him & Loki became much better friends, & now the two of them get on very well & my husband loves him. I often just use hand signals with Loki, so I guess if your trainer thinks your voice is too firm, this is why he is saying not to speak to Snow? Loki is a wonderful puppy now, & I am sure Snow will overcome his issues with correct training, lots of praise & lots of love ....low stimulus too, as some golden puppies can get highly excitable & are then hard to control. We do Timeout for a few mins in his exercise pen when this happens to Loki, to allow him a quiet place to calm down. I think you are doing well with Snow. He is still just a baby.


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## Danielu (Dec 28, 2012)

THanks Claudia for all usefull staff. La multi ani si-un an nou fericit!

Dwyllis, thanks for your advices also. Yes, the firm voice is the reason he suggested at the begging to use more body language and leach actions, rather then our voice. Actually at the beginning the training was more for us than the puppy )

The commands sit, stay, down were learned by us at 3 months. At training class we are improving them to start working better and better in a distractive environment + behavioural things.


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## Danielu (Dec 28, 2012)

I`m back again asking for some help.
The training goes well but unfortunately Snow is having some serious health issues caused by eating things "gastroenteritis". Even if we pay a lot of attention he is doing some tricks and he is always getting something in his mouth.









I`m thinking to use Halti or Gentle leader in order to prevent this actions at least for the moment. Which one do you recommand?
He is now 5 month old and unfortunately lost 1.5 Kg ( 18 kg now ).


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Max walks very well with the Gentle Leader.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Aw Snow... poor boy... the Gentle leader will help, if you have someone who is familiar with them help you get it fitted correctly that will help. It has to be fairly snug to fit properly and so he can't rub it off (chances are he will not like it). Be sure to always give treats when putting it on him to help with the process of getting him used to it. I sure hope he feels better


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## Danielu (Dec 28, 2012)

Hi,

Snow is getting better.
Thanks for your support! 

Daniel


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