# AKC vs APDT Rally



## Beanie (Mar 18, 2010)

I am new to showing of any kind and just did my first few rally trials. Our first one we crashed and burned so I worked hard over the next two months before we went to another trial. One of the places we train offered four APDT trails last weekend so we entered and did fantastic. So the following weekend we went to an AKC trial and took the blue ribbon in novice A. 

So my question is why do the AKC folks really turn up their noses at APDT? Honestly many of the rules are harder, twice the signs, a time limit, only being able to use a command once without losing points. The only benefit is being able to use treats (must be in your pocket and only given after a stationary sign like a sit). Watching the AKC rally there was literally one lady who said DOWN 20 times (I counted) and some of the runs went on forever. 

So why the negative attitude? What is the history here?


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I've done both forms of Rally O, and I think the problem lies in that APDT allows treats in the ring and crooked sits. This is fine until you want to compete for your CD/CDX. For APDT Rally O is kind of the end all/be all for competition anything, but for AKC it is very entry level.For example, my dog Tally has his Rally Excellent/ CD, but we are working hard on our CDX. In APDT, you top out, and it just doesnt give new challenges once you have worked through the whole program and hit the top. You just keep doing the same finite signs, and after a while it gets repetitive. I think APDT is more fun and yes it is harder for the handler in a way bc it offers more (and more creative signs), but it isnt as rigorous as AKC bc of the treats/ leeway on sitting/heeling.


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## Beanie (Mar 18, 2010)

Thank you! That does help explain some of the weird vibes I got about. I am enjoying both but just couldn't figure out what the issue was.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

For me it's mainly the use of treats... I'm not saying I wouldn't try it out to give my guy more ring experience, but I don't get why you would have to use treats when you are trialing/competing against other people. ./


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## 2golddogs (Oct 19, 2009)

Jackson and I do both APDT and AKC rally. I choose not to treat in the ring because I don't want to get in that habit. Occasional praise seems to be enough. I think APDT is great for additional ring experience while training for advanced rally. It's also wonderful for the older dogs as they are allowed to have lowered jumps or jumps almost on the ground. I have watched 11 to 5 year old dogs compete in the ring and I just love the sparkle in their eyes. They love it.


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## 2golddogs (Oct 19, 2009)

Typo - should be 11 to 15 year old dogs. The last trial I attended a 15 year old lab earned his level 3 rally title. There wasn't a dry eye in the place.


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## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

My dog has an RE in AKC and RL3 in APDT along with championships. In fact we got all the titles (RN, RA, RE, RL1, RL2, RL3, all 3 Level of Championships and and ARCH in 10 months) and AKC is way easier. AKC doesn't challenge the dog nor handler and rules are so easy it's ridiculous. Crooked sits are seen everywhere in AKC Rally with no penalty, handlers can repeat the command numerous times with no penalty - what Obedience venue permits this - None. There is no time limit required on the AKC course. APDT requires that courses are finished in 4 minutes or less and have approximately 25% more signs than AKC.

Although APDT allows treats at stationary positions folks normally do not treat at all, especially in Level 2 and Level 3.
The signs are way harder in APDT than AKC and the rules are harder.
Teams are penalized for crooked sits - it's a 1 point deduction for each crooked sit. If the dog does not heel such that the handler can touch the dog points are deducted - and the judges are strict. Both venues are at fault for not requiring strict heeling position. Furthermore, if you repeat a command there is a 3 point deduction. The handler in AKC is permitted to repeat the command numerous times without a deduction - where in Obedience is this ever permitted with no penalty. The handler must be 6 feet from the jump when it is taken and they run by so the dog must find heel again. Level 3 is more difficult than anything in AKC Rally - there is a directed jump, drop on recall, signal exercises, recall over jump, moving stands etc - these are Utility like exercises. There are Championships beyond the three levels of titles - ARCH (5 Double Qs in Level 1 & 2 in same trial with score above 190), ARCHX (5 Double Qs in Level 1 & 2 in same tria with score above 195), ARCH EX (10 Double Qs of 195 or above in Level 2 & 3 with a 195 in same trial) and ARCHMX (10 Triple Qs of 195 or higher in Level 1, Level 2 and Level 3).

We start showing in Obedience this Fall.


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## The_Artful_Dodger (Mar 26, 2009)

In Canada we have CKC and CARO trials - it seems like a similar comparison to AKC vs. APDT. So far, I have competed in both for novice level. The people and judges seemed nice at all the trials I went to. But I felt like there was much more of an emphasis on "we're here to have fun with our dogs" at the CARO trial, while people seemed more competitive and serious about getting high scores at the CKC trials. I did use treats at CARO, even though he could have completed the course without, in the hopes that he doesn't learn that you never get treats in the ring. I am planning to do a couple of matches where treats are allowed the day before our next ckc trial in hopes that he will think I may still have cheese in my pocket the next day at the real trial. I feel like the CARO trials would be more attractive for "regular people" who aren't serious obedience competitors but just think it looks like something fun to do with your dog.


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