# Training to sleep later



## pokey (Sep 4, 2009)

Let me first say that my 6 month old is a goldendoodle, not a golden. I hope this will not stop people from giving me advice. I began reading this forum when we had a golden and have found many people very helpful. Being that my pup is half golden, I believe I have a right to post here :smooch:

Bailey is 6 months old and still only sleeps 5, maybe 6 hours at night. He sleeps in his crate in his own room and goes right in at bedtime. No matter how much exercise he has had, or what time he is put in his crate, he still wakes up after about 5 hours. At this point I don't know if it is habit or necessity; he will bark to get out and we take him out to potty. Bailey always pees and usually poops at this time. When he was younger we tried putting him back in the crate, but since he only slept another 45 minutes to an hours, we decided to just put him in the den. One of us went back to sleep on the sofa with Bailey. We found he slept much longer than the 45 minutes this way and we could all get more sleep.

Now at 6 months I would think he could wait to potty. He does pee and poop right before bed, so he had an empty bladder/bowel at bedtime. Could his system still be so immature that he can not hold it longer? I take him out often during the day, so maybe he hasn't learned to really hold it that long. Or maybe he is just tired of being in the crate and potties because we take him out.

Bailey still has a few accidents. He has excitement urination (another issue) so if I haven't taken him out before my daughter or husband come home from work and his bladder is full, he will get excited and pee. He is like a toddler, if his bladder is full and he is busy playing, he might squat and pee; he doesn't always realize he has to pee until he is about to burst!

It would be nice if he could sleep until 7:00am so that no one has to take him out and go back to bed. My husband does get up many mornings at 5:00, so Bailey must hear him, but the mornings my husband doesn't get up, Bailey still gets up before 6:00. I would say Bailey has slept until 7:00 maybe about 5 times since we have had him.

My 22 year old daughter has thought of having him sleep in her room without the crate, but I am afraid if he really needs to potty so early in the morning, that he will just go on her floor. He does not give us any indication that he needs to potty even thought we have bells at the outside door. Our older dog learned to ring the bells within days; Bailey just stands there and waits for you to ring the bells!! The crate is a large crate and there really isn't space in my daughter's room for the crate, but we make have to move something out to bring the crate in. Bailey and my daughter will be moving to an apartment soon and the thought of going out from an apartment at 5:00 every morning will get old real soon; it is old now and we have our own yard! I am also afraid that Bailey will hear others in the apartment building and get up during the night and in the morning; this dog has excellent hearing.

All suggestions and ideas welcome!!


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## Daisy and Rita (Aug 31, 2009)

Hi, our pup is now just over 4months old, so early problems are fresh in my mind, I don't know anything about Goldennoodles, but hopefully some one on this forum will?

Our Daisy golden retreiver, went through a similar phase of not sleeping much and waking us up at early hours in the kitchen (where she slept). But she would go outside and have a piddle or poop, and we praised her for being very good at letting us know she wanted toilet. And yes like you, I or my partner would stay up with her, and all she ever did was settle down almost immediately and go straight back to sleep in her 'lounge' dog bed (she didn't want to know her kitchen bed).

For the last few weeks, she now sleeps in her lounge bed, and has been as good as gold! I'm convinced it's because she just likes to be in our 'personal' enviroment. Some nights I take her up stairs to sleep with me, but some times she gets too hot, pants and crys/barks to go back down stairs to the lounge lol. 

With regards to him moving into your daughters apartment, please emphasis to your daughter that your pup is in totally new surroundings to start off with, and this alone can take a little while to get used to - new scents, furniture, noises, surroundings etc, so don't expect too much for a while. Maybe if your daughter isn't moving too far away from you, your pup could still stay with you for just another week, and you take him over to your daughters apartment for a few hours each day including his own blankets and toys etc so he gets comfortable with the new environment and 'noises'. 

Then leave him there over night, and see how it goes. As you are already having a problem, I personally would make it a slow process and let him just get used to it, make it fun - great new treats/toys etc whilst he's there, but always take his personal items with you and leave most of them at the new apartment (especially his favourite one's) - pups/dogs are comforted by items with their own scent on - toys, chews etc. and in our case, our pup loves our socks in her bed, she has a little chew for a minute then cuddles up and goes to sleep lol ;-)

Let us all know how it goes. p.s being in an apartment and if there are loud neighbours at night, it's really worth while leaving a tv or a radio on fairly quietly.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

Sounds like Bailey has you guys wrapped around his little paw. You need to take control back! He has learned that if he barks, you come. I'm sure that the fact that after you answer his beck and call that he has you trained to stay with him makes him feel empowered as well. 

Take food and water away a couple of hours before he goes in the crate at night. Buy earplugs at your local pharmacy. Let him out to potty just before you put him to bed. He will wake up and bark bark bark like he always does. Put on your earplugs. Sooner or later, he will stop. Do not let him out to go potty in the mornings until he has been quiet for a while so he doesn't connect I bark = humans come. Repeat until he understands that barking isn't working anymore. Sooner or later, he will stop. Prepare yourself that this may take some time and you may have to endure a week or more of barking every morning. Stay strong and stick to your guns! You are the master! Take back your freedom!!!

Good luck and don't give up, he will get the idea. I remember when Msjennifer was trying to ignore her doggies calls as they learned if they made enough noise, she would come. She almost went insane. But now, there is peace - I think anyways.  You know what they say, it is always darkest before the dawn. 

PS. pics!! Can you post a pic? my friend has a 6 month goldendoodle named Darby. She's so sweet and cuddly! Some people are anal about the goldendoodle thing but some people are just anal. Don't let anyones remarks disparage you. You'll find that the majority of the people here are nice and helpful. I for one am super happy to have you here and although I may be killed in my sleep tonight for saying this, wish more people with golden mixes felt like they could get help here because when it comes to behaviors, problems, questions - there is a wealth of knowledge to be offered here. Anyone gives you any crap here, let me know- I'll sic Max on them or something. 

Oh and pss. Not too many people follow this part of the forum, introduce yourself in the hello part and don't hesitate to use the puppy board or the main discussion board. SEe you around!!


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## honeysmum (Dec 4, 2007)

Hmmm dont know what to sugest but at 16 weeks Honey was sleeping 8 hours with no need to go out for a wee, do you take Baileys water up of an evening, we took Honeys up at 9pm last let out was about 11pm let out again 6/7 am but she may have been the exception to the rule hope others can give you some advice.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

It sounds like he's learned that barking means he'll get let out, and that once HE's decided it's time to get up, he's out of his crate for the morning as well - you're much too kind and my dogs would like to move in too! 

I'm grumpy with getting wake up calls, so anytime it happens with a pup, I slip a leash on, walk them outside to pee in case it's urgent, then put them right back in their kennel. I don't give treats, praise or anything other than a patch of grass and back to bed, thanks. Soon they learn to not bother with that.

You could make a point of having him wait at least a minute being quiet before you let him out of his kennel. It may take some time and you may have to reduce it, but DON'T let him out of his kennel for barking unless you want to teach him that barking makes that door open. Then a quick pee and back into his kennel - no sleeping in the den or whatever. Sounds to me like he's a bit spoiled. If he honestly can't hold it, then you may want to take his water away earlier in the evening, and feed him more of his meals earlier in the day (don't free feed, give him a window to eat then remove his food - that way you know when things are going in and then when they'll come out...).

Good luck, if you're firm, he'll soon start to sleep longer/better. My guys have learned that I decide when they're getting up and out of their crates in the morning (whoever is sleeping in crate at night anyway) and that just because I get up, doesn't mean they're going out to pee (two young kids here so lots of up in the night).

Lana


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

Bender said:


> I'm grumpy with getting wake up calls, so anytime it happens with a pup, I slip a leash on, walk them outside to pee in case it's urgent, then put them right back in their kennel. I don't give treats, praise or anything other than a patch of grass and back to bed, thanks. Soon they learn to not bother with that.


Exactly. 6 months is way too old for all that fooling around during the night no matter what the breed.


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## pokey (Sep 4, 2009)

Thanks for the advice so far. Bailey eats dinner at 5:30 and we do take water up early although we usually give him a bit before bed. I do believe he needs to potty, but whether he could hold it another 2 hours, I don't know. As soon as his feet hit the grass he goes. There is no talking or treats; actually we are usually half asleep when we take him out. Usually his last pee is around 11:30 and he gets up again around 5:00-5:30. He then comes back in and sleeps on the sofa or my daughter's bed until 7:00-7:30. On the weekend, after breakfast at 7:00-7:30 and potty, he stays in the den with one of use, either sleeping or chewing on a bone. He is good about not demanding attention from us, something the older dog does.

If he didn't have to pee and poop so often during the day, I would think he could go longer at night, but he does potty almost every 2 hours. The vet said he might just have an immature system and take a bit longer to develop the bladder/bowel control. On the other hand, I wonder how much of getting up early is habit. That said, if we go out shortly after he has had his dinner, when we come home he will pee more than a few drops due to excitement. When I leave him during the day it isn't a issue, only after a meal. To me that means he doesn't have the control to hold it when his bladder is full. He use to have the excitement pee in the morning, but that has since stopped. The vet again feels like he will outgrow this, but I am not too hopeful. I know people in the neighborhood that have dogs that have glee pee and never outgrew it.

Even if we put him back in his crate after he potties, someone is still getting up and going out with him in the early morning. he most likely would be fine going back in the crate; he likes the crates, just doesn't love it.

My daughter is not due to move anytime soon. She is looking for a job in another city and so far she has not had much luck. She will keep the job she has here and live at home at least until the summer; unless she gets an offer in the other city. We currently leave a radio on for him when he is in his crate now; he has super sonic hearing, so we try to muffle the noises in the house.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Of course you can post here! 

My dogs are natural bums so I don't have advice, but I'm glad you're getting some.


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## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

I so agree with AquaClara. You need to ignore the crying. I pick up food bowls right after they finish eating dinner (if they don't finish, the bowls comeup after 10-15 minutes), and waterbowls are up by 9. We goto sleep about 10:30 and take them out right beofre bedtime. 

By the way....A neighbor of ours has a goldendoodle and he is justADORABLE and full of energy. Cute cute doggie.....PICS??


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

pokey said:


> Thanks for the advice so far. Bailey eats dinner at 5:30 and we do take water up early although we usually give him a bit before bed. I do believe he needs to potty, but whether he could hold it another 2 hours, I don't know. As soon as his feet hit the grass he goes. There is no talking or treats; actually we are usually half asleep when we take him out. Usually his last pee is around 11:30 and he gets up again around 5:00-5:30. He then comes back in and sleeps on the sofa or my daughter's bed until 7:00-7:30. On the weekend, after breakfast at 7:00-7:30 and potty, he stays in the den with one of use, either sleeping or chewing on a bone. He is good about not demanding attention from us, something the older dog does.
> 
> If he didn't have to pee and poop so often during the day, I would think he could go longer at night, but he does potty almost every 2 hours. The vet said he might just have an immature system and take a bit longer to develop the bladder/bowel control. On the other hand, I wonder how much of getting up early is habit. That said, if we go out shortly after he has had his dinner, when we come home he will pee more than a few drops due to excitement. When I leave him during the day it isn't a issue, only after a meal. To me that means he doesn't have the control to hold it when his bladder is full. He use to have the excitement pee in the morning, but that has since stopped. The vet again feels like he will outgrow this, but I am not too hopeful. I know people in the neighborhood that have dogs that have glee pee and never outgrew it.
> 
> ...


This sounds like you are defending defending defending and not really getting what we are trying to tell you. Your Bailey is spoiled and you enable him to be that way. This post reminds me of a parent who is making excuse after excuse about why their child behaved badly because they can see no wrong. 

I change my advice and tell you just keep doing what you are doing. Apparently you don't really want to change his behavior - you are okay with it - so no complaining about it as you are defending everything he is doing and that you are doing as his humans.

My Max drinks like a horse and could manage to pee every 2 hours no problem. That doesn't mean he can't hold it over night or longer inside. 

Goldens can be amazing dogs and companions however, just like with children - if you enable bad behavior and let your kids lead you by the nose - they can grow up to be ungrateful, unthankful adults who expect the world to bow for them and who listen to no one but themselves. If you don't start being a strong pack leader, your dog is going to grow up just like badly reared children.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

I do think this is a habit and that you taught it to him very well. I would just slowly extend his time in the crate in the am. When he tells you he is up, don't go get him immediately. Learned habits are very hard to break, it will take time. Make him wait 5 minutes the first few days to a week. Then up the time by another 5 minutes and so on. After lettting him out to potty, put him back in the crate. His body is used to eliminating after those 5 hours so only do the extensions in short time periods (the 5 minutes) as you don't want a dog that starts having accidents in the crate.

Would love to see pictures of Bailey


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## pokey (Sep 4, 2009)

I really didn't think I was defending, just responding to the above post. I added what the vet had said to see if that would make any difference. I came here for advice, and I am soaking in everything each of you have suggested. I believe I even said he might be able to hold if longer, but I hadn't had him do so. I am home most of the day and walk the dogs 3 times a day as well as play time in the yard. Both dogs have the opportunity to potty often, so in the few short months we have had Bailey, I haven't really tested his endurance. 

I know we need to just let him bark in his crate in the morning if it is too early; we just haven't wanted to do it thinking he needed to go out. Now that he is 24 weeks old, we are thinking his little body should be able to go another hour or two.

Because of the excitement peeing I never know if he is able to hold everything in his bladder. If one of us comes home or we see someone while out walking, Bailey almost always piddles a bit. It doesn't matter if he just peed or not, there is still more to come out!!

So again, thanks for the advice; I am listening. 

MomtoMax-Bailey is far from a badly reared child. As a matter of fact, he is an exceptional dog with one issue that will be corrected one way or another. Not that my vet is G-d, but when I am told that my dog has an immature system, I'd like to think he know what he is talking about. And, no I am not defending myself, just adding information that might be helpful!!

Solinvictus-Make perfect sense and sounds like a good idea.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

pokey said:


> MomtoMax-Bailey is far from a badly reared child. As a matter of fact, he is an exceptional dog with one issue that will be corrected one way or another. Not that my vet is G-d, but when I am told that my dog has an immature system, I'd like to think he know what he is talking about. And, no I am not defending myself, just adding information that might be helpful!!


A lot of people think just because they get a certain kind of dog, they will grow up to be well behaved obedient and loving magically but truth is it takes a lot of hard work. I think that happens more so with Goldens and Labs due to their reputation. I'm not the best pack leader myself all the time but I have certain rules that Max respects - and it's a big problem if you dog thinks that it can call you to come and you obey. Always, you need to be top dog, so to speak and you are not atm. If you don't correct this, it can grow into a bigger problem over time as your dog gets into the age where he is really pushing his boundaries - those terrible teenage years I read so much about.

In your post you did not at all address the fact that - at least when I read through it - this is what we are going to try - either we will take food and water away earlier or we will let him bark and not get him we will etc etc. - it was explain excuse explain excuse explain excuse. Nothing will correct itself if you are too busy explaining everything and not doing anything proactive.

I do not mean to be rude but I'm blunt, more so now, and I know it. Recently I've been fairly annoyed here at times so I'm not doing the pat on the head gently steering in the right direction thing. I am not insulted that you would not heed my advice but disturbed that you seemed too busy spinning "information" and not taking the time to reflect on what the posts have been about. I am also not trying to insult you but being blatantly honest as I understand it.

I hope that whatever you decide to do works for you. I am abrasive. It's a phase. Maybe I'll outgrow it. Good luck.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

The OP came here for help, not to be chastised. If they do not want to heed our advice, then so be it.

I think you should try leaving your pup in his crate for maybe an extra hour even if he's crying, and see if he can control his bladder and bowels. If that goes well, then maybe increase it another hour a few days later, until you have him in his crate for 7-8 hour stretches at night. If he pees or poops in the crate, then maybe your vet is right and he does have an underdeveloped system, but I betcha your pup's just being a bit of a baby right now.  If you absolutely have to take him out of his crate before you want to get up, then make it completely unceremonious. Out of crate, leash on, outside to potty, and immediately back into the crate for another hour or two.

Sure, maybe it's babying the dog a little too much, but you know what? It's not going to turn your dog into a spoiled brat. I babied Flora a LOT when it came to crate training because she was a total freak in the crate. Is she a bratty, spoiled, misbehaving dog now? ABSOLUTELY not.

Good luck!


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## pokey (Sep 4, 2009)

momtoMax said:


> In your post you did not at all address the fact that - at least when I read through it - this is what we are going to try - either we will take food and water away earlier or we will let him bark and not get him we will etc etc. - it was explain excuse explain excuse explain excuse. Nothing will correct itself if you are too busy explaining everything and not doing anything proactive.
> 
> I do not mean to be rude but I'm blunt, more so now, and I know it. Recently I've been fairly annoyed here at times so I'm not doing the pat on the head gently steering in the right direction thing. I am not insulted that you would not heed my advice but disturbed that you seemed too busy spinning "information" and not taking the time to reflect on what the posts have been about.


Just because I didn't say which suggestion I was going to try, did not mean I wasn't going to try any. I wanted to gather several suggestions and go over them with my family to decide which idea would be the best for Bailey and the humans in the family. We have received many good ideas and will be trying one this weekend and may need to try several different things before we find the one that works best for our family. Our goal is to have Bailey either sleeping later in his crate or maybe on my daughter's bed, but I still prefer the crate. I told her he could sleep wherever she wanted once she had her own place, but for now, I want him in a crate at night.

This is the problem with the internet, you never know someones full intent. That is why I never assume anything; you know what happens when you assume don't you?

momtoMax-What you saw as excuses, I saw as further explanations. You say you are blunt and that is fine; I like to talk a lot! Maybe I gave too much information, but that is who I am. 

kdmarch-Thanks for the backup


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## pokey (Sep 4, 2009)

I thought I would post an update. When my daughter returned from her weekend trip, she decided to let Bailey sleep in her room. The few times she has had him in there in the early morning, he would just sleep on his blanket on her bed or floor. She put the blanket on her bed and he slept until he heard my husband in the kitchen. She was able to get him to settle down for a few minutes, but then decided to go ahead and take him out to potty as he was standing by her face! The next morning he gave a slight bark when he heard my husband again, but went back to sleep until he heard the school bus. This morning he didn't budge when my husband left at 5:20 and slept until my daughter alarm when off at 7:15!! 

I have had to keep the older dog quite as she usually barks at the kids going to the bus at 6:50, so I am closing my bedroom door so she can not go down to the window in the morning, and if she starts to grumble as she hears the kids, I can get her to come on the bed with me and get some hugs! I think we are making progress, but will need more time to see if today was just a fluke. We are looking into getting Bailey a bed so he has his own place, although he is happy with his baby blanket. He seems to like Piper's bed, but that could be because it is Piper's!

The only complaint my daughter has is that Bailey takes up a good bit of the bed and it keeps her from being able to stretch out; I told her welcome to dog ownership; what's yours is theirs


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## BorzoiMom (Nov 18, 2009)

Lots of great advice is already given. I would like to restate some of what has been said as I would handle it ( as a trainer.) 
True- your puppy has probably learned " if I complain- I can get out". Now- not just ignore it but also when you go to let the puppy out, only let the puppy out if being quiet. Even if you have to wait a few extra minutes. And say nothing- do not say " no be quiet" etc. Remember- puppies have no idea you can hear them- we actually teach them that by responding. 
Also the bowel will have to ' move" within about 6 hours of having food. So at 6 months old, the puppy should hopefully eat lets say at 4pm. Saying then that lets say you go to bed at 9, take out right before bedtime, then that last movement would have taken place. 
Place in crate with the resolve of " see you at lets say 6am" ( just guessing the times. ) Remember the puppy may be barking mid morning out of worry too- ie use to bark then someone yells at the puppy, making the puppy nervous actually- so you do not reply not one word. Not one! 
Also when it is time to let the puppy out, you do so but very non challant, not like " YAHOO- THE BIG GREETING" type thing.. Just open the crate and casually walk to the door- go outside potty, then back in the house. ( and if you reward- then give it) and gentle pat thats about it for about 15 minutes after getting up. See this helps keep things calmer, and the puppy doesn't have to anticipate anything. 
See? 
PS- oh and welcome - of course you are accepted - I mean look at me- I have Borzoi- and everyone here is great!


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## BorzoiMom (Nov 18, 2009)

( opps- just saw the date of this thread- so the puppy is now about a year old huh?) So hopefully things are better now.


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## pokey (Sep 4, 2009)

No, this post was just started this month and I just updated this morning; maybe we cross posted. I think all is going to work out well with the little guy sleeping with my daughter.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Some dogs just don't like crates. And don't let people make you feel like because you're not using the crate you're doing it all wrong and your dog is going to end up a mess. Flora really never slept in her crate at night, and now she sleeps downstairs by herself from about 11pm-7:45-8am without putting up any fuss. Sounds like you found yourself a good solution and I hope it continues to stay a good solution!


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