# Demand Barking



## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

My guess (and it's only a guess) is she needs more exercise... not walking but true aerobic exercise. A good 10+ minutes of chasing a frisbee or tennis ball several times a day or swimming or hiking. She sounds very smart and could be doing some "mind" games. There are so many things she can be learning, using their minds will help to drain energy as well.
You might want to rethink the coffee bean treats... excessive caffeine isn't good for people or dogs and could be adding to your hyper activity. Oops, my bad. I just realized you were talking about the container not giving her coffee beans.


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## Jrey (Jun 13, 2017)

puddles everywhere said:


> My guess (and it's only a guess) is she needs more exercise... not walking but true aerobic exercise. A good 10+ minutes of chasing a frisbee or tennis ball several times a day or swimming or hiking. She sounds very smart and could be doing some "mind" games. There are so many things she can be learning, using their minds will help to drain energy as well.
> You might want to rethink the coffee bean treats... excessive caffeine isn't good for people or dogs and could be adding to your hyper activity.


Oh gosh, we don't give her coffee beans. OUR coffee beans are stored in the same kind of container that we keep her puppy treats in. We thought she might just be mistaking the beans in the clear container for something she might enjoy  

Luna gets a 30 minute walk/grassy run each morning. She gets a 30 minute walk in the evening, in addition to fetch/play time inside for another hour or so... is only crated for 6 hours total during the work day, I come home halfway through that at lunch to let her out and walk her. I try to have two puppy playdates each week--- one with a friends puppy, and one with my parents older lab mix. These playdates do tucker her out for the evening, and into the next day.

She also has her own little routine for settling times. She ALWAYS sleeps on the floor of the bathroom while I shower, licks my feet when I get out, then lies at my feet while I dry my hair. Without fail, these are her times to just lay about each day. We tried to get her a dog mat to try and label "her spot" as she will destroy a dog bed, but she hasn't really taken to the dog mat. It's one of those Coolaro beds.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

It's a tough one. Ignoring, for sure, is the best. That means, not even eye contact. If that's not seeming to work, I might try getting up and walking away. Again, no eye contact, don't say anything. Walk away, turn your back. Give her the exact opposite of what she wants. 

And I agree with Puddles - more exercise and training, to tire her brain, will likely help, too. Worth a try.


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## Jrey (Jun 13, 2017)

We are starting an Obedience 101 class in two weeks. I'm hoping that's beneficial. I've been reading about walking them before the class to help them tire out a little... but not too much that they sleep through class! 

She knows sit, lie down, shake a paw, and is working on "stay." When she gets really amped up, we go back to practicing these things to engage her brain a little.


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## LynnC (Nov 14, 2015)

Jrey said:


> She knows sit, lie down, shake a paw, and is working on "stay." When she gets really amped up, we go back to practicing these things to engage her brain a little.


That's great! But don't forget about "leave it". I can't tell you how many times I say that daily!


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

If ignoring doesn't work, try giving a signal to her bark. When she barks, maybe make the repeated'no' in ASL, for 'yap yap'. Then reward it. Do that enough that you can get her to bark w the hand signal. 
only reward the bark when you have signaled her to bark.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I hate the "ignoring" advice on really naughty behavior like this. How is the dog supposed to figure out you don't want him doing something if you just ignore it all the time? When she starts barking "on demand" I would really fast grab her muzzle shut, and hold it firmly and say "NO! QUIET!" Be very swift, firm and sudden. RAISE YOUR VOICE And sound mean. Let go of her muzzle when she is holding still (not struggling). If she immediately "Acts up" (i.e. barks or comes at you in any way other than appeasing), grab her by the collar or neck scruff and march her right to the crate. If you are swift and firm enough on this it will take one day before she figures out she does NOT get what she wants or any neutral/positive attention by barking. 
Some people find this sort of behavior amusing but I really think it is very manipulative and naughty.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Oh, trust me, I see nothing amusing about demand barking. Which is why I nipped it in the bud when Shala tried it at about 4 months old. For me, ignoring it worked. So I'm just passing on what worked for us. She got nothing out of it, and so she stopped doing it. I realize that may not work for everyone's dog, but thankfully, for this one undesirable behavior, it worked here.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Luna sounds like quite a character  With good, consistent training and management she will grow into the most wonderful, fun dog of a lifetime. The key is that she needs you to be stronger willed than she is. I suggest that you do a search on the training protocol for "Nothing In Life is Free" and implement this in your home as she enters her adolescent phase or you're going to be in for quite a ride.

Luna's demand barking is seriously pushy, rude behavior and the best way to deal with it is to agree with your spouse that you're both going to be hard-core and ignore it, absolutely not give in. If she gets no response, it should eventually stop. Here's a great little writeup for you to read through on the details: http://www.labadoption.org/info/file?file=16310.pdf

It may help you to make a log or notes on a calendar to track how long you all work on this and how her behavior changes over time to help keep you on track for the long haul. If you don't get this under control now she is going to be a serious PITA for life with this.


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## Jrey (Jun 13, 2017)

nolefan said:


> Luna sounds like quite a character  With good, consistent training and management she will grow into the most wonderful, fun dog of a lifetime. The key is that she needs you to be stronger willed than she is. I suggest that you do a search on the training protocol for "Nothing In Life is Free" and implement this in your home as she enters her adolescent phase or you're going to be in for quite a ride.
> 
> Luna's demand barking is seriously pushy, rude behavior and the best way to deal with it is to agree with your spouse that you're both going to be hard-core and ignore it, absolutely not give in. If she gets no response, it should eventually stop. Here's a great little writeup for you to read through on the details: http://www.labadoption.org/info/file?file=16310.pdf
> 
> It may help you to make a log or notes on a calendar to track how long you all work on this and how her behavior changes over time to help keep you on track for the long haul. If you don't get this under control now she is going to be a serious PITA for life with this.



She has a ton of personality. We love her dearly, and she has many excellent qualities already. We notice the demand barking is much worse early morning (amped up and ready for breakfast/activity) and late night. At night it may seem worse because we are trying to wind down after the day, and she is an active puppy. 

Another question I have, is it completely unreasonable to expect her, at this age, to just be content hanging around the house without a novel item (toy, chew, kong, etc.)?


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Make a habit of acknowledging, marking and rewarding the behavior you like, (reward her for not barking) teaching her what want you want her to do instead. When she is barking, wait her out, (turn your back, turn your head away, walk away), the instant she stops, (she will, she has to take a breath), count to three, mark (yes, good girl) and reward, (praise, treat, pet), once she gets the idea that it is the 'not barking' (quiet) that gets your 'attention', gradually increase the duration of the 'quiet' time before you reward.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

So she is about 14-16 weeks? She is eager to learn, just laying around won't happen for a very long time ... with some dogs it never comes.
How much time to you spend rewarding the 30 second quiet time?? Here's a quick video about teaching calm behavior. (she has several to choose from)





But nolefan is right... no one wants a pushy golden and giving into the demands will make your life miserable and really hard habit to break when they are older and bigger. Right now she is doing a really good job of training you 

Just remember it's not about being the boss it's about being smarter. It's up to you to keep her occupied and tired. She sounds very cleaver and needs a positive outlet for that.

I have a 15 month old pup that is extremely laid back and still takes about 3 or 4 hours a day of exercise & training... every day. By 8pm she is a couch potato and ready for bed by 9. Shoot we both are 

Prism had a good idea .. teach her to speak. It's much easier to teach them not to bark once they understand what bark is.


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## Jrey (Jun 13, 2017)

We try to instill as much patience in her as possible. Making her wait before eating--- set the Kong food dispenser puzzle in front of her and make her lie down until we say "free." I went home at lunch and practiced "stay" on her dog bed while I went and sat on the couch, lay down, then got back up... engaging that brain. She hasn't barked at either myself or my husband at all today... so that's good. 

We are trying very hard to create a well trained dog. These puppy times can be rough.

Our trainer really likes her, uses her as the "fun gentle" dog that can go in either puppy play group during class.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Jrey said:


> ....Another question I have, is it completely unreasonable to expect her, at this age, to just be content hanging around the house without a novel item (toy, chew, kong, etc.)?


I am afraid so. Since you all have to leave her alone while you work, you're saying her crate time while you're gone is about 6 hours and she sleeps over night another 8 hours, that means she is using that crate time to rest and recharge her batteries. For the next year or two you all will not have a lot of time to yourselves just to take it easy. You'll need to plan to keep her busy and active and then have a daily ritual where she gets a raw bone or a frozen stuffed kong to chew for 30 or 45 minutes in her crate or on a leash while you use that time to read or watch t.v. Otherwise, for the most part, it's like having a toddler and she needs attention so she doesn't make her own entertainment. 

You can find videos on how to build your own agility items like a wobble board, or buy a kids' play tunnel like this https://www.amazon.com/Pacific-Play...=1499288774&sr=1-35&keywords=kids+play+tunnel and teach her to run through it. There are lots of things you can do to keep things fun and interesting for her. Teach her to wait while you hide a favorite toy and then show her how to search for it. She will learn to use her nose. Go on you tube to Kikopup and teach her some tricks and useful things like "place." But she's going to be getting to an age where she needs aerobic exercise every day and she's going to keep you hopping if she doesn't get it. You won't have a lot of down time


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## kelseypr95 (Jul 5, 2016)

K9-Design said:


> I hate the "ignoring" advice on really naughty behavior like this. How is the dog supposed to figure out you don't want him doing something if you just ignore it all the time? When she starts barking "on demand" I would really fast grab her muzzle shut, and hold it firmly and say "NO! QUIET!" Be very swift, firm and sudden. RAISE YOUR VOICE And sound mean. Let go of her muzzle when she is holding still (not struggling). If she immediately "Acts up" (i.e. barks or comes at you in any way other than appeasing), grab her by the collar or neck scruff and march her right to the crate. If you are swift and firm enough on this it will take one day before she figures out she does NOT get what she wants or any neutral/positive attention by barking.
> Some people find this sort of behavior amusing but I really think it is very manipulative and naughty.


I agree with this. Truman was pushy, rude, loud, stubborn, and as our breeder put it, "bold". We tried ignoring his barking, jumping, biting, etc and that method did not work for us. What ultimately stopped the biting and barking was a combination of squeezing his muzzle shut with a hard NO or if it was really bad, a lip roll. We have done a lot of neck scruff grabbing too. It was not until we started getting firm with him and doing more Balance training rather than positive reinforcement only and ignoring that he started becoming a well behaved dog. He is 11 months old now and nearly a perfect angel. I know a lot of people do not believe in this type of training but positive reinforcement only did not work for us. And as our breeder put it..... when you do a bad job at your own job, you don't get praised until you get it right. You get disciplined. It is the same with dogs! Good luck with Luna!! She sounds very smart!!


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## Sarah Sousa (Jun 22, 2017)

My sixteen week old is very vocal and he's a demand barker. I cured him of demand barking in at least one instance. Every morning, I make my toast and coffee before getting his food ready. Once both of our breakfasts are all set, we eat at the same time. He used to bark incessantly and insistently through the entire process, but especially when I was getting his food bowl ready. 
I decided that whenever he barked, I would stop preparing the food, step away from it, and face him with both my hands up, palms out and say 'nothing'. When he quieted I would go back to preparing his food. The first couple days I stepped away from the food several times, but he caught on quick: when he barked I stepped away from the food = no food for him. It took three or four days. Once in a while he'll whine or bark for food and I repeat the same process. Now he calmly sits and waits for his food. Mornings are much more peaceful. I haven't been able to transfer this trick into other demand barking situations, I use the ignoring technique, but it doesn't work as fast.


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## Jrey (Jun 13, 2017)

Sarah Sousa said:


> My sixteen week old is very vocal and he's a demand barker. I cured him of demand barking in at least one instance. Every morning, I make my toast and coffee before getting his food ready. Once both of our breakfasts are all set, we eat at the same time. He used to bark incessantly and insistently through the entire process, but especially when I was getting his food bowl ready.
> I decided that whenever he barked, I would stop preparing the food, step away from it, and face him with both my hands up, palms out and say 'nothing'. When he quieted I would go back to preparing his food. The first couple days I stepped away from the food several times, but he caught on quick: when he barked I stepped away from the food = no food for him. It took three or four days. Once in a while he'll whine or bark for food and I repeat the same process. Now he calmly sits and waits for his food. Mornings are much more peaceful. I haven't been able to transfer this trick into other demand barking situations, I use the ignoring technique, but it doesn't work as fast.


We had this issue with eating--- and did the same thing. When she barked, we walked away from the food prep. She now lies down and waits patiently 99% of the time! 

Worked on this last night - she is definitely worse with the demand barking at night. Husband sat down to eat his dinner and she barked probably 15 times before giving up and coming to play fetch with me. Way more fun than barking at dad!

I took her on a long nature walk and really tired her out... she snoozed at my feet while I prepared our dinner... I think a big part of this will be making sure she's tired enough.

I run long distance races (10 miles to half marathons - long but not fast paced, i'm on the slow side) so eventually she'll be running some of my training runs with me (2-4 miles). I let the breeder know this, she felt Luna would be up for this, the other available pup seemed a bit lazier. :wink2:


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## Sarah Sousa (Jun 22, 2017)

I wish the trick to get them to stop barking for dinner was applicable to other cases. Ignoring the barking is hard and sometimes feels ineffective. My guy really responds to hand signals and body language. If there were a clear signal for 'no barking' that would apply to most situations I think we'd have it made! I agree, they're so much easier to live with when they're tired. But getting them tired.... 

You're girl is a cutie!


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