# Another lying breeder Majestic English Creme Retrievers



## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I am editing this post to correct some information. At first I thought this breeder sent me an advertisement through the forum the day after Barkley passed, but it was another breeder on this forum (who shall remain nameless) and it happened a week or so after Barkley died. It still was upsetting though. I just wanted to clarify it wasn't this particular breeder....but reading P&M Mom's post really concerns me because NO dog in this area of the country should be on "natural" HW prevention, if there is any such thing.


----------



## Jessie'sGirl (Aug 30, 2010)

Most of the adults don't even look like Goldens to me.


----------



## typercy (Jan 17, 2011)

Well, it doesn't say they are certified, only that they are tested. :doh: If that were my website, I would be sure to say who is doing the testing and what their qualifications are..... But that's just me.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

UGH, and they state they use "natural" heartworm prevention. In this area? REALLY? Hope they're having them tested often.... and treated.


----------



## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Gotta love the purchase price and deposit!!!


----------



## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

I have a Canadian Golden Retriever.... he's not too light colored though... but not too dark... 

Does this meet the breed standard!?!?!


----------



## Jamm (Mar 28, 2010)

Jessie'sGirl said:


> Most of the adults don't even look like Goldens to me.


I agree!! The adults have like no coat on them. Just a fluffy tail and thats about it..


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

They're actually forum members. They joined a while back and I did some looking into their dogs and posted the results in this thread:

Majestic Creme


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Wow, and they removed a bunch of data (such as the birth date and call name) from the stud "EX" (Exclusive The Dream Team) on k9data. 

In January 2010, somebody behind the name "Majestic Crème Retrievers" who signed his messages "Stephen" tried to friend request me. I explained that I couldn't accept the request because I couldn't be seen to be endorsing a breeder like that. I also set out a few of my problems with their site and marketing, like claiming to be working on championships for dogs whose color was outside AKC standard and didn't seem to be entered into any shows, missing certs (especially CERFs and cardiac), the whole "rare crème" business, etc.. We had a few messages back and forth before he blocked me.

I thought you guys might enjoy this excerpt (in response to my skepticism over whether EX could finish a CH):



> I did not lie when I said that every dog I have, including Ex is working on their American titles. This is 100% true. I have shown him on several occasions myself, and have recently begun to work with a handler, who does not lie or have time to BS someone to get more business. You obviously have little to no knowledge of the show world. (obviously your dogs are not show dogs). My dogs have enough color to not be considered white. They are considered blonde. They have never been disqualified for color.
> I cannot wait to throw the proof in your face, when he finishes.


Well, that was 14 months ago. Still waiting for that proof.


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

No dog by the name of Exclusive the Dream Team shows up in the AKC database at all, let alone as having been shown.


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> No dog by the name of Exclusive the Dream Team shows up in the AKC database at all, let alone as having been shown.


Ha! Thanks for that. Is there any possible interpretation of the term "American title" as he uses it that this dog could be eligible for in any way? Like, giving him the benefit of the doubt, is there any way what he said could be true?


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

The dog apparently has a UKC championship. Easily obtained.


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> The dog apparently has a UKC championship. Easily obtained.


Would you say that's fair to call an "American title?"


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Can dogs be shown using their foreign registration in AKC events? I have a Russian import and I think they can (He's a Borzoi, not a Golden).

I am NOT defending this person- I'm just curious.

Also, the dog can't be disqualified for his color:

"Disqualifications:
Deviation in height of more than one inch from standard either way.
Undershot or overshot bite."


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

(My point there being that he clearly doesn't know the standard if he even thinks the dogs could be DQ'd for color)


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

The man says he has a handler, which would not be allowed in UKC competition, so I don't know if his claim of a UKC title is true. I don't see the dog's name listed as having earned a recent title. 
A UKC title would certainly be "an American title" but that is hedging a bit, IMO. People who don't know would think it was a big deal, which it isn't, and most would think he was referring to an AKC title. A dog may be shown in AKC events under a foreign registration number for thrity days, if registered with an accepted registry. AKC registration must be applied for, or, and extension of the 30 days requested, along with an explanation of the reason for delay. This is all to allow time for the dog to be registered with the AKC, which can take a while when dealing with foreign registries. Up to 90 days may be granted.


----------



## penparson (Sep 19, 2010)

So you can buy a pup over the internet with PayPal? What a shame.


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> (My point there being that he clearly doesn't know the standard if he even thinks the dogs could be DQ'd for color)


That part is actually my fault. I said the dog wouldn't win for color and I used the term "DQ" incorrectly. I think he was just responding to me.


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

penparson said:


> So you can buy a pup over the internet with PayPal? What a shame.


If you don't like PayPal, you can also buy one of their pups through many of the online puppy broker sites.


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> The man says he has a handler, which would not be allowed in UKC competition, so I don't know if his claim of a UKC title is true. I don't see the dog's name listed as having earned a recent title.
> A UKC title would certainly be "an American title" but that is hedging a bit, IMO. People who don't know would think it was a big deal, which it isn't, and most would think he was referring to an AKC title.


Thanks for the clarification. Perhaps he got a handler to help him learn how to handle and then showed in UKC events. Then, technically, everything he said could be true—somewhat misleading, but true.


----------



## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Have any of you read about their "Training Academy"? Majestic Puppy Headstart Training Academy

Maybe I'm misreading this, but you leave your puppy with them for 2 weeks, 4 weeks or 12 weeks? What about socialization to the owner and the owner's family during those crucial weeks? Just take a look at what is promised for the extended 12 week package! No thank you! :no:


----------



## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

I wouldn't want to buy a puppy just to leave it some place for 12 weeks.... WTH!?


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Just for grins I went thru the Dec Dallas show program and didn't see any of their dogs listed.......


----------



## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Just for grins I went thru the Dec Dallas show program and didn't see any of their dogs listed.......


 
That's probably because they were busy training all those puppies to stop nipping, biting, nuisance barking and jumping by 24 weeks of age. :bowl: :no:

When I'm ready for a puppy I *want* to enjoy those first few precious weeks when the bonding and socialization is so important. Housetraining, crate training and obedience training are very important parts of that bonding process and I'd never outsource those memorable moments and firsts. Unbelievable!


----------



## srutan23 (Mar 30, 2011)

A few of those dogs look like Labs to me.


----------



## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

As an example of inaccurate info, on the website, it states that EX is PRA clear. On the PRCD DNA website, his name does not show up....


----------



## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

Ex is registered as "Excusive The Dream Team" AKC #SR60071601

There are no records in the OFA database for that name or number and no records in the CERF database either.

Nearly all of Majestics dogs (including Ex) have been purchased from Rus Pekos kennel in Russia. This kennel has also sold dogs to Silvermine, Satin Sea, English Meadows, Alpine White, Kinship Companions just to name a few. It almost looks like Rus Pekos buys dogs from several different breeders, sometimes puts a Russian title on them, breeds them, and then gets rid of them. She does list most of her dogs as HD-A, ED-0 but since that is impossible to verify, who knows if it's true or not.

List of "Friends" (people who bought dogs from them?): Rottweiler.Rus Pekos, Rottweiler in Russia List of "Dogs from their kennel club": Rottweiler.Rus Pekos, Rottweiler in Russia

Notice all the names of US "English Cream" breeders on both lists. I still don't understand why people who import dogs from other countries don't just go ahead and get the certifications in the country that the


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

ragtym said:


> Ex is registered as "Excusive The Dream Team" AKC #SR60071601
> 
> There are no records in the OFA database for that name or number and no records in the CERF database either.
> 
> ...


Ha. So, they didn't correct the spelling of the dog's name? In any regards, he is not competing in AKC events under ANY name.

And the "colleagues" of Majestic, as listed above, are such stellar breeders, and have produced such healthy dogs. Not.


----------



## ActionJackson (Oct 25, 2010)

YIKES!

Reminds me of that "Puppy of the Month Club" that was going around on April Fools Day.....except that one was a joke..... :uhoh:


----------



## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I knew Ragtym would be up on this!!


----------



## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

Sally's Mom said:


> I knew Ragtym would be up on this!!


 You know me too well


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

ragtym said:


> This kennel has also sold dogs to Silvermine, Satin Sea, English Meadows, Alpine White, Kinship Companions just to name a few.


I could also point out that Y-Rock Ranch, a breeder who's been discussed on GRF numerous, numerous times, has used Ex as a stud.

You can also add Heart of Gold to that circle of not-so-desirable breeders, as well as Hazy Morning. Hazy Morning wins the dubious distinction of crossing Ex with a bitch from White Dove.

Seems like a pretty tight knit group of people who are either fooled by the unverifiable European titles and health certs or who know perfectly well that they're engaged in unethical baloney.

Edit: you can add Del Zoro to the list.


----------



## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

You know, I wonder why all these breeders that are in FCI (Federation Cynologique Internationale) countries aren't telling their buyers about this (found on the Dutch Kennel Club site - important parts in bold):

*FCI regulations * 
In 1991 the Scientific Committee of the FCI agreed that *dogs can obtain their official hip score only in the country of residence where they are registered in the pedigree book.*

*Scores from other countries will not be registered and confirmed by the member countries.*

...

After the removal and the compulsory issue of an Export Pedigree connected with this removal, the dog is no longer registered at the Raad van Beheer.* The reason: it is impossible for a dog to be registered in two countries. Registration and health checks are connected, and therefore the coordination of the health programmes is reserved exclusively to the kennel club of the country of residence, where the dog should be registered. *

*The FCI does not, as an option, permit health checks in the country of origin, as has been rumoured. *Only in some very specific cases have some FCI-countries agreed to allow an exception to this rule for specific breeds.


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Excusive The Dream Team has completed the requirements for a UKC championship. That will, I'm guessing, be the extent of his "American Titles".


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

LOL - I was thinking that they simply misspelled the dog's name, BUT, "excusive" is an adjective, meaning "tending to excuse". 

Perhaps "Excusive" is a more approriate name than "Exclusive":
*2ex·cuse*

_noun_ \ik-ˈskyüs\
*Definition of EXCUSE*

1
*:* the act of excusing 

2
_a_ *:* something offered as justification or as grounds for being excused _b_ _plural_ *:* an expression of regret for failure to do something _c_ *:* a note of explanation of an absence 

3
*:* justification, reason 



:


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Funny!

Now does this dog have OFA clearances? I am assuming not...


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Funny!
> 
> Now does this dog have OFA clearances? I am assuming not...


 
Look for an Excusive reason as to why not.


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Funny!
> 
> Now does this dog have OFA clearances? I am assuming not...


They claim FCI clearances on hips and elbows. No way to verify it.
They don't even bother claiming that CERFs are done.


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Now would American breeders accept foreign clearances? I know in GSDs it's not uncommon to accept a good hip rating on a German import. I see no problem with that. Again, not defending this individual- curious about procedure and if other country's clearances "count" here.

When a Canadian dog is bred here, are Canadian hip clearances accepted by the American fancy?


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I would also do clearances here, and not simply accept foreign ones. Our English import came to the US as clear hips but was shown to be moderately to severely dysplastic via OFA. And I would not accept foreign hip ratings in a GSD. 
It is extremely rare that any breeder from another country is sending their best dogs to the US - particularly not those dogs that you see on the myriad of Puppy 4Sale sites, and websites such as White Dove and others with dogs imported from Hungarian, Romanian, Russian, Polish etc breeders. Someone like Anne Bissette (Beaumaris) imported some lovely dogs from very well respected English kennels - I imagine that she just seethes when it comes to the White Doves of the world...
Conversely, there was a time when some US breeders were sending dogs to Japan, in particular, because having an American Champion was a huge status symbol for Japanese fanciers, who would pay RIDICULOUS prices for one (We turned down $30k for Lyric !!!) - and US breeders were finishing dogs that did not clear something and sending them over.


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Interesting to know... a lot of maybe less that reputable GSD breeders I have heard of use the A-rating hip scores to breed and sell "German lines" puppies here. 

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

AquaClaraCanines said:


> Now would American breeders accept foreign clearances? I know in GSDs it's not uncommon to accept a good hip rating on a German import. I see no problem with that. Again, not defending this individual- curious about procedure and if other country's clearances "count" here.
> 
> When a Canadian dog is bred here, are Canadian hip clearances accepted by the American fancy?


I can't speak for others, but the only hip clearances that mean anything to me are the verifiable ones: PennHIP and OFA. All the breeders I know personally do both at the same time. OFA gives you the simple rating as to whether the dog is breeding material, and PennHIP gives you the amount of laxity in each hip so you have more detailed information.


----------



## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I agree-if I am using an imported dog, I want to see clearances done here in the US, if that is where the dog resides.

I have bred to Canadian bitches before, and accept OVC clearances, since that is the standard for the country in which they reside. I think a number of Canadians do both though.


----------



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

*As Ragtyme posted:*

You know, I wonder why all these breeders that are in FCI (Federation Cynologique Internationale) countries aren't telling their buyers about this (found on the Dutch Kennel Club site - important parts in bold):

*FCI regulations *
In 1991 the Scientific Committee of the FCI agreed that *dogs can obtain their official hip score only in the country of residence where they are registered in the pedigree book.*

*Scores from other countries will not be registered and confirmed by the member countries.*

...

After the removal and the compulsory issue of an Export Pedigree connected with this removal, the dog is no longer registered at the Raad van Beheer.* The reason: it is impossible for a dog to be registered in two countries. Registration and health checks are connected, and therefore the coordination of the health programmes is reserved exclusively to the kennel club of the country of residence, where the dog should be registered. *

*The FCI does not, as an option, permit health checks in the country of origin, as has been rumoured. *Only in some very specific cases have some FCI-countries agreed to allow an exception to this rule for specific breeds. 
http://digg.com/submit?phase=2&url=...ing+breeder+Majestic+English+Creme+Retrievershttp://del.icio.us/post?url=http://...ing+breeder+Majestic+English+Creme+Retrievershttp://technorati.com/faves/?add=ht...c-english-creme-retrievers-4.html#post1405393http://twitter.com/home?status=Anot...c-english-creme-retrievers-4.html#post1405393
http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1405393​


----------



## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

There are still "big breeders" in the US who sell their dysplastic dogs to Japan, Brazil, Argentina.....


----------



## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Tahnee GR said:


> I agree-if I am using an imported dog, I want to see clearances done here in the US, if that is where the dog resides.
> 
> I have bred to Canadian bitches before, and accept OVC clearances, since that is the standard for the country in which they reside. I think a number of Canadians do both though.


I know a good number of people who do both OVC and OFA. It is also possible to have OVC clearances noted on the dog's OFA record as well for participation in the CHIC program. This is what I have done. OVC does now have a database but it is in its early stages. I believe it started in 2007 and if you want dogs included who were rated before that you have to make a request to have the dog's record in the database. I did this with my Winter when it became an option.

I've been involved in two cross-border breedings, and in both cases (one where Win was the stud dog, and one where I used a US dog on my Breeze) the other breeder accepted the OVC clearance. OVC is listed in the GRCA COE as a recognized clearance.


----------



## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

for me OFA is fine
OVC is fine 
PennHip ... I dont know enough about 

BUT 

If I had my dithers I would take a BVA clearance any day of the week.... those values tell you way more than "good" it gives you actual numbers and a breed average so you can make educated decisions on more than just "good" "fair" honestly what do those words mean? Shoot with OVC all you get is Pass or Fail, talk about getting no information. I know folks who sent in slides on the same dog repeatedly until they got the results they wanted. 

Personally I have the BVA hip screening guidelines and plan on sending my films over to the UK. I will do a OFA screening too I mean sure what the heck.. but honestly I find the OFA screenings to be less than helpful and the GRCA allows you to use the screening of another country if you choose and the dog is over 24 months. 

a. Hips – for U.S. dogs, a report from Orthopedic Foundation for Animals; or PennHIP at 24 months of age or older. For dogs outside the U.S., report from a health registry approved by the Golden Retriever club of that country (e.g. Canada - Ontario Veterinary College; Great Britain - BVA/KC Hip Score) A report from the accepted health registry of another country may be used for U.S. dogs that are 24 months of age or older when x-rayed.


just my two cents 
s


----------



## majesticcremes (Oct 13, 2009)

The Trio said:


> I know it won't surprise any of you but an English Cream breeder in Texas that states on their website that they do all of the clearances yet I cannot find one on OFA or CERF. Majestic English Creme Retrievers. You won't believe the crap on this website. It even goes into the "Amercian" vs. "English" and did you know Canada has a type now too??? LOL Really!
> 
> Majestic English Creme Retrievers


Wow, I am surprised at the fact that not one person actually contacted me to verify these outrageous accusations. It seems like the negativity and animosity runs rampant among those with nothing better to do. You know, you are actually talking about real people with real feelings, real lives, real dogs. You have no idea that your venom hurts people, especially when it is so outrageously false. 

I stand fully behind my dogs, and all adults have full health testing and certifications. The majority of my dogs are imported and have received testing and certifications prior to entry into the US. You are all aware that there are organizations other than OFA that do certifications? In addition to the foreign hip, elbow, eye certifications, I have done US certifications of the same, and also the heart certifications by a board certified cardiologist! (I am getting the US certs, not because I lack confidence in the foreign ones, but because I am working to get the US CHIC certification). I have no problem providing proof of this at any time to any interested person!

In my research of the history of the golden retriever breed, there are subtle differences between the dog in each country/region. I did not state that there is a club-defined type difference in certain areas, I was referring to a generalized difference of type in what is seen. For example, there are some breeders who specialize heavily in hunting as opposed to show/conformation. You will see significant differences in the actual type of the dogs of each. Obviously, the standard for type is identical. Not every breeder breeds toward the breed standard as given by the breed clubs. 

I hope that I have cleared up your misconceptions, and encourage you to contact me personally in the future if you have any questions or concerns, then upon finding me "another lying breeder" move forward with your negativity.

In addition, referencing other posts, I do not create any k9 data profiles, and so cannot be held responsible for anything stated there.


----------



## majesticcremes (Oct 13, 2009)

Yes, we did try to "friend" this man, since we wanted to make connections with other lovers of the breed. I had the highest quality american type for years, and had way too much trouble with bad hips and cancer. I choose to work with the english type for this reason.
After I friended him, He came back with the worst snobbish BS I have ever seen. 
I cannot believe that people will spew such hate, just because someone chooses to work with the english type golden retriever. I do not discriminate at all about any other type of golden retriever. American or otherwise. It is not fair to discriminate against the lighter colored english type. This is the same behavior that a racist or bigot behaves in. Why is it ok, when this is related to choice of animals that a person wants to breed/ show?


----------



## majesticcremes (Oct 13, 2009)

I should clarify, that I am responding to Tippykayak.


----------



## Deb_Bayne (Mar 18, 2011)

majesticcremes said:


> Yes, we did try to "friend" this man, since we wanted to make connections with other lovers of the breed. I had the highest quality american type for years, and had way too much trouble with bad hips and cancer. I choose to work with the english type for this reason.
> After I friended him, He came back with the worst snobbish BS I have ever seen.
> I cannot believe that people will spew such hate, just because someone chooses to work with the english type golden retriever. I do not discriminate at all about any other type of golden retriever. American or otherwise. It is not fair to discriminate against the lighter colored english type. This is the same behavior that a racist or bigot behaves in. Why is it ok, when this is related to choice of animals that a person wants to breed/ show?
> 
> ...





majesticcremes said:


> I should clarify, that I am responding to Tippykayak.


Sounds slanderous to me, not impressed. Besides you can't spell cocaine correctly. I quoted this to prevent editing later....


----------



## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

majesticcremes said:


> Wow, I am surprised at the fact that not one person actually contacted me to verify these outrageous accusations. It seems like the negativity and animosity runs rampant among those with nothing better to do. You know, you are actually talking about real people with real feelings, real lives, real dogs. You have no idea that your venom hurts people, especially when it is so outrageously false.
> 
> *The clearances verifiable in a public database. If they were done, they would be there. So whats to talk about?*
> 
> ...


 ..........


----------



## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

majesticcremes said:


> Yes, we did try to "friend" this man, since we wanted to make connections with other lovers of the breed. I had the _*highest quality*_ american type for years, *<<Really? Were you breeding under the same kennel name?>> *and had way too much trouble with bad hips and cancer. I choose to work with the english type for this reason.
> After I friended him, He came back with the worst snobbish BS I have ever seen.
> I cannot believe that people will spew such hate, just because someone chooses to work with the english type golden retriever. I do not discriminate at all about any other type of golden retriever. American or otherwise. It is not fair to discriminate against the lighter colored english type. This is the same behavior that a racist or bigot behaves in. Why is it ok, when this is related to choice of animals that a person wants to breed/ show?
> 
> ...


..........


----------



## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

Ohhhh boy.... this is quite the paragraph. To be honest, if you were to "research" my name you'd find an identical match with the exact same birthdate as myself who just so happened to have committed an armed robbery in Barrie Ontario. As a result, when I cross international borders I carry a copy of my birth certificate which clearly states I was born in a different city than this unsavoury individual. Regardless... this was a highly inappropriate personal attack that had no bearing on the discussion.


----------



## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Ummmmmm I breed and show European/English type and have had no issues here at all.... 

but I don't advertise in the manner that you do, I do all my clearances.... and I stand behind my puppies.... 

its not about type or color its about being reputable or not....


----------



## Rob's GRs (Feb 25, 2007)

There has been some attacks of a personal nature in here and this post has severed its purpose so I am closing this one.


----------

