# How to stop jumping up for a treat?



## Selkie (May 9, 2021)

I have a question that I couldn't find a good set of search terms for, though I'm sure it's been addressed before.

We are diligently training Darwin, who will be 11 weeks old tomorrow. We are using a clicker because it's easier to mark good behaviors. However, when we are training and click for a good behavior/response to a command, he will jump up on us to get the treat. Not sure exactly how to handle it because we want to treat reinforce the good behavior and keep the click=treat connection. But we also don't want to reward him jumping up on his hind legs and putting his front paws on us. It's cute NOW but when he's 60+ lbs it won't be! I've tried pushing him back (gently) so he drops back to the floor. Pretty sure he thinks THAT is a game. 

Any tips to curb this?


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

He doesn't get a treat unless he's in the position you asked for. Right now, You are probably doing a lot of luring still. Hold the treat close, click and give. Also teach a release word. The clicker should be a marker....not a release.


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## Selkie (May 9, 2021)

Abeille said:


> He doesn't get a treat unless he's in the position you asked for. Right now, You are probably doing a lot of luring still. Hold the treat close, click and give. Also teach a release word. The clicker should be a marker....not a release.


We are actually not doing food luring for sit and down anymore. He will do them with just a verbal prompt and no food in sight.

Maybe that's actually our problem though? Maybe we shouldn't be giving the commands without a treat in hand yet and work on the staying sitting or down for a treat as part of the command itself?


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Maybe the treats are just causing problems and should be omitted from training?


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## Selkie (May 9, 2021)

SRW said:


> Maybe the treats are just causing problems and should be omitted from training?


I've wondered this too, though I'm not sure exactly what to replace them with--to be clear 95% of what we use as 'treats' is just his kibble. We put his breakfast and dinner in the treat pouch and then whatever is left at mealtimes goes in his bowl. He tends to get EVEN MORE excited about treats. But he also doesn't seem very motivated by toys. Maybe we just haven't found the right one.

Part of me is concerned maybe we aren't feeding him enough--we're following the breeder's instructions. He has a vet appointment on Tuesday and we are planning to ask the vet if his body condition is okay or if he's too thin and we should feed more. I saw an (adorable) video last night of a brother of his from the same litter who is DEFINITELY heftier than Darwin. Not sure if she is feeding too much or if I'm not feeding enough! That may just be my soft heart, though, as I know Golden Retrievers are generally always hungry and masterful at convincing you they've never ever been fed in their entire lives.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Praise
You always have it ready and can deliver it with perfect timing and from a considerable distance.
Many trainers underestimate how much their dogs value praise.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

Puppies shouldn't be fat. Chances are, he's fine. I would recommend finding a dog obedience club near you and enrolling in class. There is nothing wrong with giving a puppy treats while training. If you are teaching stay, don't have a treat in the hand you are using to signal stay. Praise is great once the puppy understands what you want. I've been known to use retrieves as a reward for puppies.


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## Selkie (May 9, 2021)

Abeille said:


> Puppies shouldn't be fat. Chances are, he's fine. I would recommend finding a dog obedience club near you and enrolling in class. There is nothing wrong with giving a puppy treats while training. If you are teaching stay, don't have a treat in the hand you are using to signal stay. Praise is great once the puppy understands what you want. I've been known to use retrieves as a reward for puppies.


We just sent in our registration for puppy Kindergarten starting July 9. He's actually doing really great, I think? He is almost totally reliable on come (without distractions, we're working on distractions now), sit, down, target and 'off' for ignoring a treat. Also has a pretty good 'wait'. I just am trying really hard not to accidentally teach bad behaviors!


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## Mosaic (Oct 22, 2020)

The "it's yer choice" game is perfect for this:
"The ItsYerChoice game starts out with you teaching your dog to make easy choices when faced with a chance to steal rewards. Start out with some food rewards that your dog loves. Grab a handful of treats and then close your fist around them. Make sure that none can be seen or stolen through gaps in your fist. Sit in a comfortable chair with your arm resting on your leg with your closed fist in front of the dog. Anchor your arm onto your leg so that it doesn’t move around as your dog tries to get at the treats. A dog’s common response will be to try and steal the treats by licking, pawing and mouthing at your hand. This is because, at the moment, your dog does not have any understanding of impulse control. Resist the temptation to say or do anything whilst your dog is doing this and above all be patient! Depending on the dog it may take a while to get the desired response.

If the licking and pawing behaviours are met with no response from you, the dog will eventually back away from the hand. When he does back off, open your hand. By opening your hand you have reinforced the appropriate choice that your dog just made. For the majority of dogs, the hand opening will be all the encouragement they need to dive straight back in. If that happens close your hand immediately to prevent the dog from stealing the treats. Wait for your dog’s next response. If he continues to paw and lick your hand keep your hand closed. If he backs away from the hand you can open it again. Remember we are waiting for the dog to choose the correct response so the ball is in his court in order to get the hand to open. Keep this game of opening and closing your hand going until your dog will not move towards the food when he sees it in your open hand.

Only when your dog demonstrates this self-control should you pick up a treat to reward him. If you go to pick up the treat from your hand and the dog comes forward to get it then immediately put the treat back and close your hand again. Your dog should only get the treat if you can pick up the treat and move it towards him without him moving forward to get it. Once he can do this he gets the treat."
"


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## JulieCAinMA (Jun 19, 2020)

Mosaic said:


> The "it's yer choice" game is perfect for this:
> "The ItsYerChoice game starts out with you teaching your dog to make easy choices when faced with a chance to steal rewards. Start out with some food rewards that your dog loves. Grab a handful of treats and then close your fist around them. Make sure that none can be seen or stolen through gaps in your fist. Sit in a comfortable chair with your arm resting on your leg with your closed fist in front of the dog. Anchor your arm onto your leg so that it doesn’t move around as your dog tries to get at the treats. A dog’s common response will be to try and steal the treats by licking, pawing and mouthing at your hand. This is because, at the moment, your dog does not have any understanding of impulse control. Resist the temptation to say or do anything whilst your dog is doing this and above all be patient! Depending on the dog it may take a while to get the desired response.
> 
> If the licking and pawing behaviours are met with no response from you, the dog will eventually back away from the hand. When he does back off, open your hand. By opening your hand you have reinforced the appropriate choice that your dog just made. For the majority of dogs, the hand opening will be all the encouragement they need to dive straight back in. If that happens close your hand immediately to prevent the dog from stealing the treats. Wait for your dog’s next response. If he continues to paw and lick your hand keep your hand closed. If he backs away from the hand you can open it again. Remember we are waiting for the dog to choose the correct response so the ball is in his court in order to get the hand to open. Keep this game of opening and closing your hand going until your dog will not move towards the food when he sees it in your open hand.
> ...


This is great!!! 
Question: When he backs off, after all the pawing, licking, etc., and sits, can you say "Wait" while your hand is open before inviting him to take the treat? 
Thanks!


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## Howler (Feb 4, 2021)

Selkie said:


> Any tips to curb this?


Be quick to avoid rewarding the jump. If he jumps then cancel the treat.


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## Selkie (May 9, 2021)

Mosaic said:


> The "it's yer choice" game is perfect for this:
> "The ItsYerChoice game starts out with you teaching your dog to make easy choices when faced with a chance to steal rewards. Start out with some food rewards that your dog loves. Grab a handful of treats and then close your fist around them. Make sure that none can be seen or stolen through gaps in your fist. Sit in a comfortable chair with your arm resting on your leg with your closed fist in front of the dog. Anchor your arm onto your leg so that it doesn’t move around as your dog tries to get at the treats. A dog’s common response will be to try and steal the treats by licking, pawing and mouthing at your hand. This is because, at the moment, your dog does not have any understanding of impulse control. Resist the temptation to say or do anything whilst your dog is doing this and above all be patient! Depending on the dog it may take a while to get the desired response.
> 
> If the licking and pawing behaviours are met with no response from you, the dog will eventually back away from the hand. When he does back off, open your hand. By opening your hand you have reinforced the appropriate choice that your dog just made. For the majority of dogs, the hand opening will be all the encouragement they need to dive straight back in. If that happens close your hand immediately to prevent the dog from stealing the treats. Wait for your dog’s next response. If he continues to paw and lick your hand keep your hand closed. If he backs away from the hand you can open it again. Remember we are waiting for the dog to choose the correct response so the ball is in his court in order to get the hand to open. Keep this game of opening and closing your hand going until your dog will not move towards the food when he sees it in your open hand.
> ...



Thanks! This is very similar to a game we've already been playing with him, however yours adds a few steps that I think will really help us solve the "OMG I GET A TREAT NOW" behaviors he does when we click.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

My Wren is 16 (maybe 17?) weeks old now. I simply close my hand if she breaks her sit when there is a treat available - she needs to sit to get a treat. No sit, no treat. (Also applies to downs and stands if I am actively training those)

I have started inviting friends to interact with her and the same rule applies... no sit, no treat.

She will eventually understand that no sit, no treat is a universal rule - the hand also closes if she starts to paw or attempts to take it roughly. No corrections other than 'no, sit' if she breaks the sit. Just a look and a closed hand if she paws etc.

ETA: I do not use 'wait' or 'stay' during this. Those are separate and more formal cues for my dogs. I simply verbally correct the sit break if it occurs, otherwise my pup needs to start taking responsibility for impulse control. They learn very quickly - I use it throughout the day as it might be the almost the most important manner they learn, equal only to their recall.


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## jomiel (Feb 15, 2019)

JulieCA said:


> This is great!!!
> Question: When he backs off, after all the pawing, licking, etc., and sits, can you say "Wait" while your hand is open before inviting him to take the treat?
> Thanks!


The waiting should come automatically with enough practice when he understands the game. At the beginning, you can keep this game easy and keep the wait time low to reinforce that he'll get it if he waits. When he's great at doing that, then you can increase the wait time gradually (and randomly decrease the timing too). Then add the cue word. You always want to add the cue word when it's a behavior that he can already perform well given the hand signal/situation. English has no meaning, so you can only attach the word meaning when he understands what it is you want him to do.

As the game progresses, you can put a few kibble out of your hand on to the floor, or have the kibble in a container, and be ready to quickly cover the food with your hand or foot. Then you can progress to dropping kibble on the floor, and rewarding with treats from your hand (it's always easier to do the impulse game with higher value treats if he makes the correct choice!), and add kibble too as a follow-up reward. Then tossing kibble away from you (you might want to have him on a short leash, it's hard to resist the movement), and reward with treats.


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