# Finding a male puppy in North Carolina



## NCPuppysearch (Aug 8, 2013)

Hi everyone I have been searching for a medium- dark gold male puppy for about a month now and have had no luck finding one. The puppy would have to be socialized with other dogs, because I have a Welsh Corgi that it would be living with. I'm looking for a good family dog in the about $1,500 range with AKC certification. Do any of you know of any breeders in North Carolina with available pups that meet these specifications preferably close to Chapel Hill? Thanks in advance for your help


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## AlanK (Jun 28, 2008)

Hello from Georgia:wave:. There are many members here from NC and hopefully they will chime in. Ever consider checking a Golden Rescue group ?
Al


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## NCPuppysearch (Aug 8, 2013)

AlanK said:


> Hello from Georgia:wave:. There are many members here from NC and hopefully they will chime in. Ever consider checking a Golden Rescue group ?
> Al


I've checked 2 close to me and they only seem to have older dogs available, also it sounds bad but I would rather have a perfect dog with no negative past.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

Welcome, good luck on your search.
Since you are looking for a young pup, I doubt there would be any issues on the pup's part about getting along with your dog. 
I don't know if a breeder ( a reputable breeder) would let you bring your own dog to see if he/she gets along with the pup.


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## NCPuppysearch (Aug 8, 2013)

cgriffin said:


> Welcome, good luck on your search.
> Since you are looking for a young pup, I doubt there would be any issues on the pup's part about getting along with your dog.
> I don't know if a breeder ( a reputable breeder) would let you bring your own dog to see if he/she gets along with the pup.


Thank you for the welcome, for me the puppy getting along with my Corgi is the most important thing. Although I have just done some research and it seems as long as a dog is exposed to other dogs in a good environment it should be able to get along with my corgi just fine. I guess I will remove the requirement from the list.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Have you contacted the puppy referral people at any of the clubs in the Carolinas or Georgia? That would be a good start.


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## golden rascal (Feb 22, 2013)

We got teddy from furfeathers goldens in Winston Salem. He is now best friends with our 9 yr old peke. When we would make our weekly visits we would take the peke with us. We are by no means experts on golden breeding, but felt as she is a very thorough, knowledgeable breeder. If you give her a call, she more than willing to help you find the pup you are looking for. Good luck


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Hi, welcome to the forum.

Here is the link for the Golden Retriever Club of America's Puppy Referral-

Golden Retriever Club of America GRCA: The Official AKC National Breed Club

Puppy Referral Link:

Golden Retriever Puppies: GRCA Puppy Referral: Golden Retriever Club of America (GRCA) Find your Golden Retriever Pupppy Here

You can do a search by State or Region. 

My neighbors bought a puppy from a SC Breeder, they were given a referral from one of the breeders on the list for NC. They were looking for a light Golden. 

Best of luck in your search.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

golden rascal said:


> We got teddy from furfeathers goldens in Winston Salem. k


Since this breeder was mentioned and currently has a litter available, you should be aware if you look, that the mother (Willow) of the currently available puppies has elbow Dysplasia. Even though they have "normal" next to her elbow clearance, a BVA-1 is mild elbow Dysplasia. BVA for clarification is the British Veterinary Association http://www.bva.co.uk/public/documents/Elbow_Dysplasia.pdf . IMHO it is very odd to have US OFFA elbow clearences on every other dog listed on your website then use BVA score to claim a normal status on a mildly Dysplasic dog. 

There is a lot of controversy around breeding grade 1 ED dogs and in Europe it is quite common to see. The GRCA COE states breeding dogs should be tested but does not say they must pass, though most reputable breeders interpreted it that way. Each breeder has to evaluate each breeding and breeding an ED-1 dog does not necessarily mean the breeder is bad. But, and a big BUT they should be very up front and be able to explain a great reason as to why they are breeding these dogs. So, it will be up to the puppy buyers to decide if they are ok with the puppy's mother having ED. 

My issue is that what is posted on the website is misleading, on purpose or not, puppy buyers will think she has clear elbows and she does not:no: Any one buying should have all the information to make an educated discussion. I only hope people are doing their research and asking why she has a clearance from a country over 3400 miles away or the breeder is telling them.

Other pairings of her dogs may not have the same concern as this litter as she does appear to be doing health testing on the dogs (though eye clearences are not online and would have to be verified hard copy). I personally would prefer to see some competative achievements that would show the value her stock is bring to the gene pool. 

This is a good example of needing to verify clearences and buyers must do their due diligence. No matter who you buy from ALWAYS verify clearences, you can not just take it at face value. View them online at OFFA or ask for hard copies if hips, eyes or hearts are not online. For dogs in the US elbows should always be on Orthopedic Foundation for Animals. 

Good luck NCPuppysearch I hope you find the puppy of your dreams!


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## NCPuppysearch (Aug 8, 2013)

LJack said:


> Since this breeder was mentioned and currently has a litter available, you should be aware if you look, that the mother (Willow) of the currently available puppies has elbow Dysplasia. Even though they have "normal" next to her elbow clearance, a BVA-1 is mild elbow Dysplasia. BVA for clarification is the British Veterinary Association http://www.bva.co.uk/public/documents/Elbow_Dysplasia.pdf . IMHO it is very odd to have US OFFA elbow clearences on every other dog listed on your website then use BVA score to claim a normal status on a mildly Dysplasic dog.
> 
> There is a lot of controversy around breeding grade 1 ED dogs and in Europe it is quite common to see. The GRCA COE states breeding dogs should be tested but does not say they must pass, though most reputable breeders interpreted it that way. Each breeder has to evaluate each breeding and breeding an ED-1 dog does not necessarily mean the breeder is bad. But, and a big BUT they should be very up front and be able to explain a great reason as to why they are breeding these dogs. So, it will be up to the puppy buyers to decide if they are ok with the puppy's mother having ED.
> 
> ...


I spoke with Nancy at Carova Golden Retrievers ( http://carovagoldenretrievers.com/ ) and she mentioned how important it is to get the medical records of the parents. I will not be going with furfeathers due to this, plus I have read several negative reviews about them. After speaking with Carova I think I may wait for their next litter if it means getting the perfect dog. I have also just sent an email to Random Winds Golden Retrievers. Has anyone here had experience with either of these breeders?


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## golden rascal (Feb 22, 2013)

As I completely respect your choice on choose another breeder, I feel I should defend furfeathers for being( what I feel) bashed unfairly by members of this forum who have never met this breeder or her dogs. When looking for a new GR pup, we visited 4 different breeders. Shannon was by far the best, by the way her dogs ( and puppies) were kept. She goes above and beyond to maintain the integrity of the breed. As far as the Willow Ed claim. She volunteered the information up front without us even asking. The explanation is, her hips passed OFA and all elbows in her line ( including her sisters) OFA gave Willow a grade 1 in one elbow ( still breed able grade).but she felt is was a bad X-ray. So instead of just breeding with a grade 1, she opted to get a 2nd opinion BVA which came back perfect, only then did she decide to breed her. I took this info (with hard copies by the way) to our vet, who we hold in the highest regard, she was completely satisfied with the results stating you get one chance with OFA whether X-ray is clear or not. Although Teddy is too young to show any kind of dysphasia, he is a beautiful, happy, well behaved, smart, and completely healthy dog. When I am ready for another GR puppy I will not hesitate buying one from Shannon and furfeathers. Be carefully where you get your info and be sure to do your own research.
Whoever you choose, congrats on getting a new GR puppy, and good luck


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## ragtym (Feb 3, 2008)

golden rascal said:


> OFA gave Willow a grade 1 in one elbow ( still breed able grade).but she felt is was a bad X-ray. So instead of just breeding with a grade 1, she opted to get a 2nd opinion BVA which came back perfect...


Um, no. BVA did NOT give her a perfect elbow clearance. As LJack mentioned, a BVA rating of 1 is mildly dysplastic. Therefore, not only did OFA rate her elbow as dysplastic, BVA did too! Furthermore, Willow has a full sibling listed on OFA with a hip clearance but no elbow clearance either. It is possibly that this 2nd dog's owner didn't have the elbows done but that doesn't happen often anymore.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Ragtym is correct-Willow's elbows failed under both systems. So, no,she did not pass her elbow clearances. I think you may have misunderstood what the breeder was saying. Grade 1 elbow dysplasia is not passing for OFA, and a grade of 1 for an elbow is not passing for BVA either.

What a breeder chooses to do with the information regarding their dogs clearances is up to them, and as pointed out earlier, there is some controversy there. Personally, I would be more inclined to breed a stellar example of the breed (as shown by titles at either end, and an outstanding pedigree) if she had failed OFA elbows but passed BVA, or vice versa. Failing both would be too much for me.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

We could have, have had, and probably will have many threads on the breeding Grade 1 ED dogs. 

I am not going to sit here and bash (which I feel I never did) another breeders program because they bred this one dog with grade 1 ED. I understand there are many factors when you breed. Which is why I made mention of her other dogs not having this issue and spoke on the controversy of this topic. It does not nessasarily make some one a bad breeder to breed this kind of dog. 

It would make someone a bad breeder if they are not honest with their puppy buyers about it. That was the point I am making. The breeder in question has posted the word "normal" next to a BVA-1 score and this is not correct (I included a link to an ED brochure produced by BVA in the previous post). I do not know if it is on purpose or by accident but either way it is wrong and misleading puppy buyers.

I do not have to know some one to be able to verify clearences online through a trusted source nor did I need to know them to research the meaning of BVA-1. These are facts that would not change had I met or known this person. 

I am saddened that my research, facts and opinions have obviously upset you Golden Rascal. That was certainly never my intent. It can feel very personal when your breeder is discussed. It is where you got your baby, the joy of your life, I really do get it. I was only trying to point out some items of concern to the OP to whom you had suggested this breeder. You had the opportunity to make your own informed decision, did they deserve less?

I am sure Teddy is an absolute gem. He is adorable in your signature photo! I wish you both a long, happy, golden life together.


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## NCPuppysearch (Aug 8, 2013)

golden rascal said:


> As I completely respect your choice on choose another breeder, I feel I should defend furfeathers for being( what I feel) bashed unfairly by members of this forum who have never met this breeder or her dogs. When looking for a new GR pup, we visited 4 different breeders. Shannon was by far the best, by the way her dogs ( and puppies) were kept. She goes above and beyond to maintain the integrity of the breed. As far as the Willow Ed claim. She volunteered the information up front without us even asking. The explanation is, her hips passed OFA and all elbows in her line ( including her sisters) OFA gave Willow a grade 1 in one elbow ( still breed able grade).but she felt is was a bad X-ray. So instead of just breeding with a grade 1, she opted to get a 2nd opinion BVA which came back perfect, only then did she decide to breed her. I took this info (with hard copies by the way) to our vet, who we hold in the highest regard, she was completely satisfied with the results stating you get one chance with OFA whether X-ray is clear or not. Although Teddy is too young to show any kind of dysphasia, he is a beautiful, happy, well behaved, smart, and completely healthy dog. When I am ready for another GR puppy I will not hesitate buying one from Shannon and furfeathers. Be carefully where you get your info and be sure to do your own research.
> Whoever you choose, congrats on getting a new GR puppy, and good luck


I'm glad to here you had a good experience with this breeder, but I have many other options to choose from and have heard negative things about this breeders in other places then this forum.


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## golden rascal (Feb 22, 2013)

You in no way offended me by your post. I have a very open mind and a open to debate. I just felt I should give my side, being I've had personal experience with this breeder. I guess my point was for the OP to listen to suggestions then visit each breeder and do he research instead of relying on the internet


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

golden rascal said:


> but she felt is was a bad X-ray. So instead of just breeding with a grade 1, she opted to get a 2nd opinion BVA which came back perfect, only then did she decide to breed her. I took this info (with hard copies by the way) to our vet, who we hold in the highest regard, she was completely satisfied with the results *stating you get one chance with OFA whether X-ray is clear or not.*


Ephasis is mine.

In the interest of education here is a quote directly from offa website. For anyone who would like to read the full text here is the link Orthopedic Foundation for Animals: Elbow Dysplasia

"The OFA systems automatically reject applications in which the radiograph has the same date as a prior submission. Thus, the same radiograph (or an identical copy) is never evaluated twice. Breeders do sometimes resubmit the same dog using a different set of radiographs, and this can occasionally result in a different evaluation. The evaluation can be influenced by a number of factors, such as density, contrast, and positioning (similar to the effects that focus, lighting, and camera angle might have on a photograph). Correct positioning and good radiographic technique will result in the most accurate evaluation."


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

You certainly can re-submit different xrays to OFA for a 2nd opinion. If the breeder felt the "xrays were bad" then why did she send them in the first place?


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

BVA score 1 is considered normal and OK to breed from according to the BVA if you look at their literature. Annef


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

annef said:


> BVA score 1 is considered normal and OK to breed from according to the BVA if you look at their literature. Annef


Could you point me to a BVA resource that has that wording? The only one I have found is this http://www.bva.co.uk/public/documents/Elbow_Dysplasia.pdf from the BVA website. It lists 0 as the only grade to list the word normal. 

I understand that in the UK dogs with a 0 or 1 would be acceptable to use in the gene pool. I am just curious would the form actually read with the word "normal" or is it understood by the community of breeders in the UK that 1 is a for lack of better term a "breed-able" dog?

My personal opinion is that a breeder should follow the guideline within thier own country. I still find it odd that when OFFA failed the dog she chose to send it to a different country. Even though a mild elbow Dysplasia is a passing grade for breeding in the UK, it would not be in the US, the country in which this dog was whelped and being bred. I also still think puppy buyers have a right to know what that BVA-1 means.

Completely out of curiosity have you ever heard of this the other way around? Do you know of any dogs that were born in and still reside in the UK that have OFFA clearences instead of BVA?


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

No I don't know of any dogs that are scored in the US personally unless there are US dogs over here that have been scored through OFA, in which case I would be happy to accept that score, the same as dogs scored in Europe. The BVA does consider a 1 score acceptable for breeding and there are stud dogs used in the UK with 1 elbow score. Everything need to be taken into account when breeding and interestingly I rarely, if ever, see anyone comment on temperament when new owners are searching for a puppy. Annef


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

Good point. 
Temperament is extremely important. But, I think we, as in prospective puppy owners, take it for granted that the pup from a reputable breeder has the perfect golden temperament. Therefore, we are more concerned with getting a healthy puppy, from a long lived line, hopefully not every ancestor having died of cancer at an early age or having HD or ED in the line. This is from my perspective. 

I guess once I start my search I am suppose to add now - perfect golden temperament - scary though. I really would hope that with reputable breeders, the golden temperament would be guaranteed.


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