# I am a bit floored



## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

i have inquired about a couple really nice breedings lately, and have to admit I am a bit shocked with the show potential pricing and the conditions attached  Can we really get a reasonably priced pup today?! For pete's sake they are 8 wks and anything can happen...I guess thats my rant for today...


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

Well we got a beautiful little boy from a terrific breeder at a reasonable price!!! 

Seriously tho... that sucks!!


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Lego&Jacub said:


> Well we got a beautiful little boy from a terrific breeder at a reasonable price!!!


: lol ....Yah, but those dogs are too closely related to mine!!!!!! :doh::doh:


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## metamorphosis (Apr 12, 2008)

This made me curious about breeder prices for dogs with show potential/champion bloodlines. I am not going to pretend to know anything about show dogs, as we have always only had dogs as pets.
I was BLOWN AWAY that many breeders in this area are asking $1500-$2500 per puppy...is this normal?


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

metamorphosis said:


> This made me curious about breeder prices for dogs with show potential/champion bloodlines. I am not going to pretend to know anything about show dogs, as we have always only had dogs as pets.
> I was BLOWN AWAY that many breeders in this area are asking $1500-$2500 per puppy...is this normal?


I guess yah! I realize everything has gone up, vets,gas,breeding fees, but really we are talking about an 8 wk old pups here...there is no guarantee how they shall turn out.


Just for instance I have a 2 yr old boy here, that I am placing "because" I don't like his movement...I am a movement NUT!!! He is all clear, hips/elbows/eyes/heart. Has No d/q faults, is a fairly nice boy all around, u/d on shots,house/crate trained, walks well on leash etc etc and I am asking $1500.00 (neutered) that in itself is 250-300...and everyone thinks he is too expensive that inq's :doh::doh::doh:


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

This is a catch 22 situation. MOst folks I know can't come close to paying $1000 or more for a puppy of any breed. Take someone who has heart set on a golden, a peke, whatever, and the price is so high they can't afford one. They will go BYB or puppy mill (puppy mills seem to be especailly set up for small dogs--l;ess food costs, less roomm taken up, more dogs to have puppies). 

All to well I understand the cost of health care for dogs, good food, etc and breeders are out a lot of money to raise a litter of pups and must charge a high amount for healthy pups. As I said, a catch 22


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

well I know myself I could never justify 2000.00 for a show pup, heck my pet pups are below most, as I do feel for the average family, which *I* am....do I lose more than most? I guess so....I got a show inq the other day for Tauri & I had no clue what to charge....


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## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

this is interesting, because in the horse show world, foal and horse prices are plummeting because of the economy, you can hardly give horses away. I guess there will always be a 'pet' market in dogs to keep the pups selling that we don't have in the horse world. Those prices sound crazy but I admittedly know nothing about show dogs.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

AmyinAr said:


> this is interesting, because in the horse show world, foal and horse prices are plummeting because of the economy, you can hardly give horses away. I guess there will always be a 'pet' market in dogs to keep the pups selling that we don't have in the horse world. Those prices sound crazy but I admittedly know nothing about show dogs.


I know I paid far less for my horses, our old guy Skip is worth $$$ because of his level of training BUT he was for sale for a while prior to me buying him...I know I paid too much for my mare, and would never recoup it if I decided to sell her........


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## Dinsdale (Feb 26, 2008)

I find this thread quite curious. 

When we got our pup it was our first experience with breeders. It seemed to us that a rather small number of breeders in our area quite effectively controlled the supply (and price) of the highest quality dogs. I'm not necessarily saying this is a bad thing, as I acknowledge the tremendous costs (monetary and other) associated with breeding, and the interest reputable breeders have in maintaining/improving the quality of the breed. Just expressing my observations as a "consumer." 

Breeders were requiring up to $1500 for a pet-quality pup - that is, if I passed "inspection." And even if I was willing/able to pay that price, there was no guarantee when I might get a pup.

Again, I'm not criticizing breeders per se - just commenting that in terms of a "market," dog sales are quite unusual in many respects. In some undeniable respects breeders operate as a cartel, which has definite implications on product price and availability.

Having said all that, I had assumed that there were some "agreements" among the breeders and within the clubs, where they provided each other with dogs, services, and favors at "cost." Kinda surprised to hear from your experience that that isn't the case.

I'm fortunate that I am in a situation where cost did not have to be the determining factor in our choice of pup. But in light of the prices I was quoted for a pet quality pup, it doesn't offend my sensibilities to hear of "show" quality dogs costing $1.5-2K.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Dinsdale said:


> I find this thread quite curious.
> 
> Having said all that, I had assumed that there were some "agreements" among the breeders and within the clubs, where they provided each other with dogs, services, and favors at "cost." Kinda surprised to hear from your experience that that isn't the case.


Nope we pay just like Joe Public ! I find 1500 pricey for a pet quality pup...thats my opinion, but I guess perhaps I haven't been shopping lately!!!!


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## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

arcane said:


> I know I paid far less for my horses, our old guy Skip is worth $$$ because of his level of training BUT he was for sale for a while prior to me buying him...I know I paid too much for my mare, and would never recoup it if I decided to sell her........


well some of them are worth the investment 

it seems people keep dropping the prices and have many for sale for ages, the market seems to have tanked since the anti slaughter stuff passed. 

Sounds like the dog breeding world is getting frustrating in the other direction. Do you think it could be connected to the publicity of puppy mills and BYB's lately and breeders are trying the strategy of making non-dog show people think that a lot of money equals a good breeder and a good dog?


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I agree Heather and am glad you think so too. I hope your prices don't go up as I hope to get a Boston pup someday!

We paid $650 each for our dogs 9 and 5 years ago. She gave us a discount on the 2nd one as we have referred many people to her. They have great pedigrees, good clearances but are companion not show quality. I have no energy to be involved in the show world but want a high quality healthy beautiful golden. I know my dh would not be willing to pay over $1000 especially with not much guarantee. 

My friend recently paid $2500 for a King Charles Spaniel from Wyoming. Plus she drove out , stayed in a hotel to get her. NO WAY!!!!!

We were looking into German Shepherd pups. A breeder in western NE. charges $1500 + for companion pups.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

AmyinAr said:


> Sounds like the dog breeding world is getting frustrating in the other direction. Do you think it could be connected to the publicity of puppy mills and BYB's lately and breeders are trying the strategy of making non-dog show people think that a lot of money equals a good breeder and a good dog?


I am not quite sure what to think, it may be helpful if some of the other breeders, would jump in with their thoughts, but that may not happen maybe I am the only soul that thinks puppy pricing is over the top!


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## Dinsdale (Feb 26, 2008)

Just thought of another wrinkle. Given the vetting of potential buyers and limited registrations, I doubt I could even get most of the breeders I spoke with to sell me a "show/breeding" quality dog at ANY price. 

Personally, I have no interest in showing/breeding. But I can't imagine how difficult it would be for someone to become involved in either activity just starting out. Yes, on the one hand, there is a TON to be said for getting involved in the local organizations before you start breeding/showing. But from the other viewpoint, it can look like a newbie would have to pay homage to those who control the reins. 

Just another observation how the situation as I encountered it affects the availability of pups.


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## wagondog (Aug 24, 2007)

My breeder was forced by her club to raise her pet pup pricing from the 1300 she was charging to 1400. She refused to go to 1500 as was suggested by the club.
You can find pups for far less cost and they might very well be good dogs. I just went with her dogs because of the recommendations I received and the 40+ years breeding and judging. I'm not at all sorry about spending the little extra money! There were 39 potential buyers waiting for 8 pups.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Dinsdale said:


> Personally, I have no interest in showing/breeding. But I can't imagine how difficult it would be for someone to become involved in either activity just starting out. Yes, on the one hand, there is a TON to be said for getting involved in the local organizations before you start breeding/showing. But from the other viewpoint, it can look like a newbie would have to pay homage to those who control the reins.
> 
> Just another observation how the situation as I encountered it affects the availability of pups.


Well I have been in dogs coming up on 20 yrs, have paid my dues, hopefully have proven myself with my peers, and upon one recent inquiry would be required to pay $2000.00 for an 8wk show potential pup, and let the stud dog owner breed to said male on an unlimited basis, with any bitch either owned or co-owned, AND said dog would remain on a lifetime co-own, plus needing approval for any planned breedings in his regard, getting all clearances/Championships that are pretty standard contract agreements ....sheesh....I can't see any breeding being worth all that!!!


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## Dinsdale (Feb 26, 2008)

wagondog said:


> My breeder was forced by her club to raise her pet pup pricing from the 1300 she was charging to 1400. She refused to go to 1500 as was suggested by the club.


I would be interested to hear exactly how this transpired - how a club would "force" such things and what reasons they would give.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Me either. I don't blame you.


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## linncurrie (Jan 25, 2008)

arcane said:


> ... one recent inquiry would be required to pay $2000.00 for an 8wk show potential pup, and let the stud dog owner breed to said male on an unlimited basis, with any bitch either owned or co-owned, AND said dog would remain on a lifetime co-own, plus needing approval for any planned breedings in his regard, getting all clearances/Championships that are pretty standard contract agreements ....sheesh....I can't see any breeding being worth all that!!!


:no: Definitely not! That breeder wants to rule from the grave! Basically you will be paying for the pup plus all expenses raising it and keeping it in good condition just so that she/he can use the dog whenever he/she wants to ... how utterly selfish is that??!!! No, sorry ... selfish is the wrong word ... greedy and stupid are better words!


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Dinsdale said:


> I would be interested to hear exactly how this transpired - how a club would "force" such things and what reasons they would give.


I know I was told once that I needed to increase my pricing b/c I was undercutting my fellow breeders...ummm excuse me, I can determine my own comfort level and no one should tell me what I should or shouldn't charge.


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## Dinsdale (Feb 26, 2008)

Man, *arcane*. You sure aren't making breeders - at least those you have recently dealt with - sound any better than I would have thought in my blackest, most unfair moods. 

When my wife went to a recent show, she commented on how competitive most of the people she met were, how willing they were to talk poorly about each other behind their backs, and such. OTOH, I spoke with some very decent sounding folk on the phone, who spoke highly of other breeders. 

In the activities I have been involved in at relatively high levels, at least some portion of the participants are generally eager to explore the possibility of exploring mutually beneficial relationships. It seems a no-brainer for such a thing to happen in the dog world. Say breeder A offers a pup at a cut price to breeder B, provided breeder A reciprocates with a pup from her bloodline. Or perhaps breeder A could get first choice from that pup's first litter, or countless other possibilities.

But I guess you run into jerks in every activity. It always sort of surprises me when the folk who have reached the top of any organization use their success to wring even more from those lower down, instead of taking advantage of their ability to be magnanimous and derive long-term benefits other than maximizing the monetary return from each individual transaction.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Heather, To me, that shows you are in it for the love of the dogs and the betterment of the breed, not money! People should admire that!


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Dinsdale said:


> Man, *arcane*. You sure aren't making breeders - at least those you have recently dealt with - sound any better than I would have thought in my blackest, most unfair moods.


I know!!!! how to win friends and influence people!!! lmao



> When my wife went to a recent show, she commented on how competitive most of the people she met were, how willing they were to talk poorly about each other behind their backs, and such. OTOH, I spoke with some very decent sounding folk on the phone, who spoke highly of other breeders.


there are exceptions to every rule, and there are many good breeders out there as well. I was extremely fortunate with my "Boston" his breeder was reasonable and didn't ask for the moon in return, pet price & one breeding back, which she may never use...but it's there if she wants it. All decisions in his regard are mine to make...she trusts me & I her.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Debles said:


> Heather, To me, that shows you are in it for the love of the dogs and the betterment of the breed, not money! People should admire that!


I agree!!!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Strangely enough, after buying two puppies this year, six months apart, after exhaustive research and many visits to many breeders, I discovered that a huge price-tag can be a sign of a shoddy breeder or a once-in-a-lifetime breeding of two special dogs. Most limited reg. puppies with titled parents and all health clearances ranged from 1200 to 1600. Ridiculously enough, I found a breeder charging 3,000$ for a puppy of untitled parents ( a rare WHITE golden- whatever) with no health clearences while simultaneously I looked a 3,000 puppy who was double AfC, FC Field dog Hall of Fame, Outstanding Sire &Outstanding Dam, with Hips Good, Hips Ex, Chic numbers , and all clearances. If I were a national competitor, I could see paying the 3,000 for the second pup, but who buys the first one, I wonder? A puppy with two champion parents and all clearances on a full registration is going to be, in my experience, 2,200. The same pup, on limited reg, is going to be 1600. A pup with untitled parents should be far less.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Boston is so beautiful, and Banjo is too.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Well I think its just diffrent strokes for diffrent folks. There are people that won't even pay for a puppy and there are those that will pay $2000


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## wagondog (Aug 24, 2007)

Dinsdale said:


> I would be interested to hear exactly how this transpired - how a club would "force" such things and what reasons they would give.


I do recall the phrase ethic agreement being mentioned during my conversation with her. I would never mention the club because I have no first hand knowledge. However, it makes sense to me that breeders within a club would not want one breeder to be selling pups much under what the others are selling theirs for.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

wagondog said:


> My breeder was forced by her club to raise her pet pup pricing from the 1300 she was charging to 1400. She refused to go to 1500 as was suggested by the club.
> You can find pups for far less cost and they might very well be good dogs. I just went with her dogs because of the recommendations I received and the 40+ years breeding and judging. I'm not at all sorry about spending the little extra money! There were 39 potential buyers waiting for 8 pups.


 
This is outrageous and I would have quit the club before allowing them, or anyone else, to dictate to me what I charge for my puppies. 

And not every breeder is charging exhorbitant prices for their puppies. I won't even tell you how much I paid for Zoom - a multiple group placing, Specialty winning bitch, who has produced beautifully for us and has been as healthy as any dog we have, passing all clearances as have her first puppies. What I paid for her would make you all laugh, and NOT because it was high - it wasn't. 

I can't see paying any more than $1000 for a good quality pet puppy, MAYbe $1200. As for a show potential puppy from a STELLAR breeding, I could see $1500 - $2000. No more.


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## Dinsdale (Feb 26, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> I can't see paying any more than $1000 for a good quality pet puppy, MAYbe $1200. As for a show potential puppy from a STELLAR breeding, I could see $1500 - $2000. No more.


At first we self imposed an upper limit of $1k. When we looked about and saw what was available when, we decided we might go as high as $1500 for the right pups available at (what was for us) the right time. Turns out we ended up paying 1/2 that.

You always have the option of expanding your geographical search, but then you have to add transportation costs into the purchase price.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> I can't see paying any more than $1000 for a good quality pet puppy, MAYbe $1200. As for a show potential puppy from a STELLAR breeding, I could see $1500 - $2000. No more.


thats more in line with my way of thinking too. I do not have a problem with pet price & puppy back or stud service back either. This is kind of a win win situation, as you get a top notch pup for more of a "pet" cost, and should something not go right, you can rehome as a pet and you are not out huge losses. 

here is a scenario: 
show puppy 1600.00 US 
puppy just doesn't cut it for one reason or another
pup is sold to a pet home here in Canada for tops 1000.00 
(if it's a genetic issue perhaps less) as you couldn't charge full price now could you? So at the end of the day you are out $600
and most likely the pet must be spayed neutered as well ( 250-300 )


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm afraid to find out how much a pup would cost from a Reputable Breeder these days. Tucker was a year old and returned to his breeder by the previous owner. It was almost 5 years ago and he was 500.00. We gave him a home a few days before his dad took BIB at Westminster in 2004.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I posted this on another thread but it seems appropriate here too. It just shows how much the price of AKC goldens has risen. Although when you compare it to the price of gas.... not so much. : ) But I find it so interesting!
Twenty years ago we paid $200. for our Trailblazer's Major Max whose grandsire on father's side was AMTR. FLD.CH.Holway Barty and grandsire on his mother's side was Dual Ch. Funky Farquar. Many other Ch. in the line also. And it wasn't with a neuter contract either.
Sadly, he developed hypothyroid at 6 and later at 12 megaesophagus. My husband still thinks he was the best dog to ever live and I am crying right now thinking about him. I need to scan a pic of our beautiful old red boy.
__________________


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## kathy/mi (Nov 6, 2007)

Heather you are totally right, that's a crazy amount of money. When we were looking at breeders, we priced everything out. After I found who we went with, I asked about price, thinking it would be a ton considering the pedigree of the puppies. To my surprise, pet puppies were $900 and show puppies were $1100, provided they felt you were going to show every weekend to finish the championship. I bet you can find a very good breeding at an acceptable price.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

arcane said:


> i have inquired about a couple really nice breedings lately, and have to admit I am a bit shocked with the show potential pricing and the conditions attached  Can we really get a reasonably priced pup today?! For pete's sake they are 8 wks and anything can happen...I guess thats my rant for today...


I guess it really depends upon what you're looking for in a puppy. Most pups worthy of conformation competition on this side of the border in the north central portion of the U.S. will run in the $1,000 - $1,500 range for starters. 

Those suitable for Field Trial will run in the $1,200 - $3,000 range. (Yes, for an 8 week old puppy.)


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Swampcollie said:


> I guess it really depends upon what you're looking for in a puppy. Most pups worthy of conformation competition on this side of the border in the north central portion of the U.S. will run in the $1,000 - $1,500 range for starters.
> 
> Those suitable for Field Trial will run in the $1,200 - $3,000 range. (Yes, for an 8 week old puppy.)


Holy smokes! I don't know why I'm shocked by the 3k price???


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I do not think that $1600 is out of line for a pick show puppy. As I said, $1500 - $2000 is to be expected for a quality breeding for a show puppy.

I think that the scenario as it is being described doesn't include that if the $1600 show potential puppy were to develop a DQ fault, the breeder refunds $400 back so that the price of the puppy ends up being the same or less than what the breeder gets for a pet. So if sold in Canada for $1000 the difference is $200. And most breeders don't even do that. The warranty on show potential puppies usually only covers failed clearances. We all buy a show puppy hoping like holy heck that it is going to be "The One", knowing that it may well not. It's the game...


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

arcane said:


> I am not quite sure what to think, it may be helpful if some of the other breeders, would jump in with their thoughts, but that may not happen maybe I am the only soul that thinks puppy pricing is over the top!


I charge $800 for my pet puppies.

I paid $1500 for Diva from Topbrass (dad is BIS BISS CH Shor'Line Jetoca High Seas Adventure SDHF and mom is Topbrass Rise To The Top). She is show quality and I have full reg on her.


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## DelmarvaGold (Mar 7, 2006)

Around here a show pup goes for $1500 - $2500. Most are co-owns with something back (either stud service or puppies). I have sold 3 show pups over the years. 2 bitches and 1 male. I only co-own the one bitch and that is because she is "new" to goldens. I want to make sure the bitch is bred the right way and not to some dog down the street. I get nothing back. If the bitch produces something I like and I want a puppy from her then I will buy it. I sold all 3 pups for $1700 each which is more than fair for a show pup in this area.

Now, just recently I was contacted about a puppy and the price I quoted was $1600 for 1st pick. If the puppy does not pass a health clearance then they get a replacement puppy from an upcoming litter and they can either keep the original puppy or spay/neuter and place them in a pet home. If the puppy ends up with a DQ fault then I will refund back to $1200 which is less than I sell my own pet quality puppies for. I did this because of the area the buyer lives in. But for the most part, I will always refund back to or below what my pet price is. There would be no co-own and I do not expect anthing back in return (such as stud service or a puppy back). I feel this is more than fair. If a buyer starts looking out of their geograhical area for a puppy they have to expect to pay the "going" rate in the area they are looking in. I try to be as accomodating as I can.

I have paid anywhere between $750 (co-own with a puppy back) to $2000 (owned outright) Guess it all depends on how bad you want that pedigree


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

DelmarvaGold said:


> Now, just recently I was contacted about a puppy and the price I quoted was $1600 for 1st pick.
> e



Tango was the first pick puppy from Topbrass's Stoney/Sarah litter, and we also paid 1600, and have full registration. Both purchased with neuter agreements, Tally (parents both bench champions)was a bit more and Finn(parents both Master Hunter and CDX) was a tiny bit less. More than ten years ago, our Twin-Beau D pup Acadia was 1250, and Raleigh, a Sun Dial/ Splashdown field dog was 1000. All these pups' parent's have hips good or excellent. As devoted Golden pet owners, we want a beautiful dog but not needed to be bench-worthy, an athletic dog to go every where& play hard, but not needed to be field caliber. The reason for investing in a good pup is to maximize the chance of a long-lived, healthy companion with all the beloved golden traits. It definitely means no vacations to fancy places and no dinners out in fancy restaurants, etc, but it is worth it to us even as non-competitive owners.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

DelmarvaGold said:


> Now, just recently I was contacted about a puppy and the price I quoted was $1600 for 1st pick. If the puppy does not pass a health clearance then they get a replacement puppy from an upcoming litter and they can either keep the original puppy or spay/neuter and place them in a pet home. If the puppy ends up with a DQ fault then I will refund back to $1200 which is less than I sell my own pet quality puppies for. I did this because of the area the buyer lives in. But for the most part, I will always refund back to or below what my pet price is. There would be no co-own and I do not expect anthing back in return (such as stud service or a puppy back). I feel this is more than fair. If a buyer starts looking out of their geograhical area for a puppy they have to expect to pay the "going" rate in the area they are looking in. I try to be as accomodating as I can.
> 
> I have paid anywhere between $750 (co-own with a puppy back) to $2000 (owned outright) Guess it all depends on how bad you want that pedigree


that sounds like a reasonable fair agreement!! In your example 1st pick is offered. No conditions!

In my prior example (original post) with all the conditions, probably 2nd-3rd pick was what was available. There is always risk with any breeding or puppy purchase, I have, like I stated before a 2 yr old boy here, who has all clearances, has been shown, is a great dog really, but I don't like his movement, so he is available to a loving companion home, I will never get back what I have put into him $ wise, fellow breeders have said, you are selling an all clear dog why? he could produce better than himself, he could finish, yadda yadda yadda...and I say he'll make some one a loving companion too, not what I am looking for in my breeding program. So I guess I didn't win the lottery on that one!!!! LOL


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

Dinsdale said:


> Just thought of another wrinkle. Given the vetting of potential buyers and limited registrations, I doubt I could even get most of the breeders I spoke with to sell me a "show/breeding" quality dog at ANY price.
> 
> Personally, I have no interest in showing/breeding. But I can't imagine how difficult it would be for someone to become involved in either activity just starting out. Yes, on the one hand, there is a TON to be said for getting involved in the local organizations before you start breeding/showing. But from the other viewpoint, it can look like a newbie would have to pay homage to those who control the reins.
> 
> Just another observation how the situation as I encountered it affects the availability of pups.


I'm a newbie to the conformation show world with my boy, Nygel, and it really wasn't hard. I've been training/trialling in obedience for over 35 years :doh::doh: (yes, it's really been that long) and decided that I wanted to try the "other side". My breeder, Connie, was most supportive and chose the right puppy for us. Connie does co-own Nyg with me & my DH. She also gave us training information to get Nygel ready for the ring, hooked us up with amazing handlers and supported us fully all the way. Hey, we talked for hours after each show. Connie also posted all of Nyg's successes on her website. We're now ADDICTED!!!!!!! and hoping to get another puppy!!!! to add to our (2) boy household! 

I must say that the "show" people were great with me as I honestly must say that I didn't understand what was going on. Although I have a better handle on it, I'm sure that it will take a while before I can converse in an "intelligent" manner. It's fun, it's challenging, it's hard work, it's EXPENSIVE but it's something that Nyg & I can do together and get to see areas of the country that I've never travelled to before.

I'm proof that a newbie CAN enter "that world".


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Gwen, your story sounds a lot like my father's, except that I'm not sure he intended to enter the world of conformation and breeding. We had bought our first golden from a pet store (we didn't know any better, and that particular pet store was VERY misleading about where the pups came from)... and 4 years later my dad decided he wanted to get another puppy the "right" way. When he found Keeper's breeder, she was actually left over from a slightly older litter... the breeder had intended on keeping her for his program, but had a really fantastic male from his next litter and was just in the process of deciding whether to sell her. He actually sold her to us on a limited registration (we all misunderstood what it meant... I think it was a new thing at that time), but relatively quickly changed that to full when we realized that we were showing "illegally". I can't remember if he was signed on as a co-owner at first or not... but for some reason think he was. He really showed my dad the ropes on everything from showing to grooming, and introduced him to the Garden State Golden Retriever Club. He continued to be a friend and mentor through our breeding with Keeper (and even still today). It's not that hard to break into this world... you just need to find the right breeder who is willing to help and teach you. All that vetting that breeders do of buyers is absolutely necessary for this though... as it should be. A breeder shouldn't be selling dogs on full registration willy-nilly not knowing who the buyer is and what their intentions are.

To the point of this thread though... sorry you're having a hard time in your hunt Heather. I know my dad really trudged through the trenches in his puppy search trying to find lines that complimented ours, then hoping the breeding went through (several did not for various reasons), before we finally found Oriana. And of course, there's no guarantee that we'll ever be able to breed her. Hopefully you'll find something more reasonable soon... you need to keep breeding so I can buy one of your pups someday!!

Julie and Jersey


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

A breeder from Pine Tree GR club was telling the story that, in registering her new pup online at AKC, an error was made granting full registration to a buyer who agreed to limited. It was a glitch, a mistake, and the buyer had paid a pet price for a puppy that had a few minor faults. So this buyer just decided to breed the dog anyway- and the breeder's lawyer just could not get AKC to overrule. Now, the breeder has a dog being bred who was meant to be limited, and is miserable about it and really sad with AKC.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Jersey's Mom said:


> To the point of this thread though... sorry you're having a hard time in your hunt Heather. Hopefully you'll find something more reasonable soon... you need to keep breeding so I can buy one of your pups someday!!
> 
> Julie and Jersey


Well I think I have found my next potential boy puppy! No info until everything falls into place  but it wasn't that difficult, you just have to know where to look, and what is most important in your search :dblthumb2


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## DebsDog (Mar 28, 2008)

I am picking up my new puppy next week. The price is 3K USD plus my airfare. I am not planning to show or breed. I personally see alot of value is a great, healthy pedigree and a beautiful animal. The sire is Asterlings Wild Blue Yonder who passed away 10 years ago. I know this dog may be overkill from a breeder/show officionado but everyone has their own value system. The Dam has a wonderful pedigree too.

Also, we lost our 10 year old Golden in March and we really wanted a dog now! This dog was available, we can afford it and I went for it.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

DebsDog said:


> I am picking up my new puppy next week. The price is 3K USD plus my airfare. I am not planning to show or breed. I personally see alot of value is a great, healthy pedigree and a beautiful animal. The sire is Asterlings Wild Blue Yonder who passed away 10 years ago. I know this dog may be overkill from a breeder/show officionado but everyone has their own value system. The Dam has a wonderful pedigree too.
> 
> Also, we lost our 10 year old Golden in March and we really wanted a dog now! This dog was available, we can afford it and I went for it.


YOWZERS! although I admire that breeding, that's steep imo, but as Delmarva said "It's how bad you want that pedigree" Good luck with your new baby!


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

arcane said:


> Well I think I have found my next potential boy puppy! No info until everything falls into place  but it wasn't that difficult, you just have to know where to look, and what is most important in your search :dblthumb2


Great news!! Hope everything falls right into place for you!

Julie and Jersey


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

arcane said:


> that sounds like a reasonable fair agreement!! In your example 1st pick is offered. No conditions!
> 
> In my prior example (original post) with all the conditions, probably 2nd-3rd pick was what was available. There is always risk with any breeding or puppy purchase, I have, like I stated before a 2 yr old boy here, who has all clearances, has been shown, is a great dog really, but I don't like his movement, so he is available to a loving companion home, I will never get back what I have put into him $ wise, fellow breeders have said, you are selling an all clear dog why? he could produce better than himself, he could finish, yadda yadda yadda...and I say he'll make some one a loving companion too, not what I am looking for in my breeding program. So I guess I didn't win the lottery on that one!!!! LOL


We NEVER get back what we have put into a dog. Never. How could we possibly put a price on what we've put into them, and I am not just taking about finite "things", but time, love, etc. 
As for selling a clear dog with poor movement, I would have to disagree with anyone saying that a chance should be taken that he'd reproduce better than himself. If I don't like a dog well enough to show it (and I am not talking about loving a dog as I have certainly had my fair share of dogs that were _never _shown but were also never leaving because we adored them, I am certainly not going to breed it.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> As for selling a clear dog with poor movement, I would have to disagree with anyone saying that a chance should be taken that he'd reproduce better than himself. If I don't like a dog well enough to show it (and I am not talking about loving a dog as I have certainly had my fair share of dogs that were _never _shown but were also never leaving because we adored them, I am certainly not going to breed it.


Exactly How I feel! I would be taking a step backwards imo by breeding to him as he doesn't fit "my standards" of what I believe is important. Movement is key in my opinion, as the pieces have to be in the right place to achieve that.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

I can't really speak for Goldens, but many show quality Newf contracts are extremely limiting.

I've seen some that are worse than others. 

The actual price of a potential show/breeding quality Newf isn't as high as many equivalent Goldens I've seen, which amazes me. I have seen "some" for as much as $2200 but that's top dollar. Even the Westminster winner, and the #1 Newf in the country's offspring (not the same dog, BTW), are going for around $2000. 

Newf breeders are very "tight" with their dogs. It's a limited gene pool, so they're super careful (or the quality breeders are) about who breeds to whom, etc.

There's also the issue of the color genes. Gotta be cautious there - on top of the obvious other genetic issues.

So, I can see their point, in a way.......but some are just over the top.

Cole came to us with a co-ownership. He's expected to be shown, get all clearances, only breed to "approved" bitches (approved by all owners) - except for my own (in my household). Any of us can breed to our own "stock" without approval from one another (the Breeder, me and Jacques). His breeder also has the right to 7 breeding units of his semen for her own breeding purposes. 

Any breedings that result in a litter from the 7 breeding units will be split equally among co-owners minus the collection/freezing expenses. However, his breeder also has the right to a stud puppy back from any breedings resulting from the above mentioned semen.

So......if there are 7 breedings, she has the right to one puppy back from each (or the money for the pup). We split any other "profit" from the successful breedings. (After the costs....that isn't a whole lot, as we all know here).

Sound like a lot?  I've seen MUCH worse. Believe me.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Ardeagold said:


> I can't really speak for Goldens, but many show quality Newf contracts are extremely limiting.
> 
> I've seen some that are worse than others.
> 
> ...


Oh, my gosh - you need a programming flowchart to keep to follow it!


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## historicprim (Nov 24, 2007)

I'm thinking compared to some other breeds I have researched and concidered purchasing, Goldens arent out of the ballpark.
I have contacted some well known Havanese people along with the ones who want to say their dogs are Havana silks and they range from $ 2,000 to $ 2,500

Biewers which are not even recognized by the AKC start at $2,500 for pet quality male all the way up to $4,000. These breeders are having health issues because of a limited gene pool (liver shunt) They all know it, but they are still breeding and asking for HUGE amounts of money.
I'll just stay away thank you very much!


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Heather , Good Luck with your new boy!!!! Can hardly wait to find out who he is!


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Debles said:


> Heather , Good Luck with your new boy!!!! Can hardly wait to find out who he is!


thanks, I am excited BUUUUUTTTT....there is a bit of a wait for the breeding and litter so have patience grasshopper ....to be continued


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

arcane said:


> thanks, I am excited BUUUUUTTTT....there is a bit of a wait for the breeding and litter so have patience grasshopper ....to be continued


The suspense is getting to me. Will we find out the firstish week of September? One of my best friends is getting a Sunkota's Phorgone Conclusion boy pup on September 6th, and I plan to babysit nonstop.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> The suspense is getting to me. Will we find out the firstish week of September? One of my best friends is getting a Sunkota's Phorgone Conclusion boy pup on September 6th, and I plan to babysit nonstop.


LOL let's give you a little hint Mom to the litter is due in season in August ...hmmmm puppies are expected to GO to their forever homes December :


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## DanielleH (Nov 4, 2006)

I think I know the answer to this one!!   It will be a very nice litter for sure 
speaking of bringing home new puppies... London won't be the baby of the house after september..


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Tell me please! I don't have a clue! Well, I do cause you gave us one but I still don't know!


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## DanielleH (Nov 4, 2006)

Debles said:


> Tell me please! I don't have a clue! Well, I do cause you gave us one but I still don't know!


LOL... The only reason I know is because I was seen the breeders site a few days ago.. there was something that Heather said in her hint that caught my attention.. and I had to double check..


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

You Canadians!!! Know all the same breeders! LOL!
You all have such gorgeous goldens too!


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## DanielleH (Nov 4, 2006)

Debles said:


> You Canadians!!! Know all the same breeders! LOL!
> You all have such gorgeous goldens too!


LOL!! There are some great breeders in the US too..


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Is that London on the bench?
So very beautiful!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I'm stuck right here on this thread wracking my brains to get the GO hint. DanielleH, you are smart. I'm not giving up yet though= I might have an inkling.


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## DanielleH (Nov 4, 2006)

Debles said:


> Is that London on the bench?
> So very beautiful!


Yup,that London on the bench.. she loves to pose, and be my little super model..


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Where did you get her? The breeder?


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## DanielleH (Nov 4, 2006)

Debles said:


> Where did you get her? The breeder?


She's from Goldpaw kennels in Timmins Ontario, she was bred by Tammy Sabourin. I'm getting another puppy from Tammy in september, puppies are expected to arrive around July 13th...
http://www.geocities.com/goldlovekennel/


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Danielle, did your USA breeders are good too comment work as a hint?


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/klaasem/zoom.htm????


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## DanielleH (Nov 4, 2006)

Ljilly28 said:


> Danielle, did your USA breeders are good too comment work as a hint?


It could have been... maybe.. but who knows maybe it wasn't ...: :


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

WOW, I went to their site. ALL their dogs are gorgeous and seem perfectly sweet! Great pedigrees and clearances.
I have several places in mind for when we get another pup.
Just have to convince my DH to vacation in Canada.


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## DanielleH (Nov 4, 2006)

Debles said:


> WOW, I went to their site. ALL their dogs are gorgeous and seem perfectly sweet! Great pedigrees and clearances.
> I have several places in mind for when we get another pup.
> Just have to convince my DH to vacation in Canada.


I love Tammy's crew.. My new puppy will be from her Bungee x Armani breeding.. I'm so excited.. and definitely stealing heathers thread..


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

WOW, what a dog!!! Tons of amazing offspring. Reference to Zoom!

Heather sent us off on a chase for an answer! LOL!


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## DanielleH (Nov 4, 2006)

Debles said:


> WOW, what a dog!!! Tons of amazing offspring. Reference to Zoom!
> 
> Heather sent us off on a chase for an answer! LOL!


Zoom is a really nice boy, absolutely gorgeous.. 
but i think the chase for the answer is still on :


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

not Zoom ...I think Danielle may know:


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> I'm stuck right here on this thread wracking my brains to get the GO hint.


What does POOH say??  think think think!!!!! lmao :


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> I'm stuck right here on this thread wracking my brains to get the GO hint. DanielleH, you are smart. I'm not giving up yet though= I might have an inkling.


I know who is going to have the GO litter - and I am very jealous!!!


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## Griffyn'sMom (Mar 22, 2007)

Best wishes with your future pup. 

As far as price - the price will go as far as the public will pay. Here in Monmouth County, New Jersey the prices were $1,800.00 and UP 2 years ago. I don't even want to think what the price is now. We went an hour south and saved about $500.00. Not show quality - those prices are for pet quality. I can't imagine what they want for a show dog!

My husband and I paid about $350.00 for our first Golden - he lived to be 17. We said we would gladly pay $1,000.00 for a dog just like him - and then went shopping and had to change our figure. Wow! What culture shock! 

Now they way I justify it is this.. you expect to have that dog at LEAST 10 years - divide your price by that and it's not so bad.. right? : If you look at it that way Jake was $21.00 a year! LOL Less than $2.00 a month - not too shabby! 

Unfortunatly, there are many that can't or won't afford a dog that's that amount of money and the BYB's are thriving because of it. 

Considering what the local Pet Shops are charging for MUTTS, $2,000.00 for a Show Quality Golden is a steal.


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## 3459 (Dec 27, 2007)

arcane said:


> What does POOH say??  think think think!!!!! lmao :


OK, this is bad. Do you realize I am reduced to googling Pooh phrases and Go litters trying to figure this out? LOL Danielle and Cubbysan, I am very jealous that you have it figured out! Grrrr. . .


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Doesn't Pooh Bear always say "Oh Bother/Oh Brother?? Come on Heather just given up the info or just PM me?? Either way works LOL


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## Griffyn'sMom (Mar 22, 2007)

I think he says "Oh bother". PATIENCE folks... puppy isn't even concieved yet!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I'm glad Damama joined in on the chase. Finally!!! I found it!!!! Grampa is my sweetheart, Joseph? The GO litter. Took some hints, but it makes total sense. Friends from the forum? I got it, I got it.


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## 3459 (Dec 27, 2007)

Got it! Hee, hee, hee, I'm so proud of myself.


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## DanielleH (Nov 4, 2006)

arcane said:


> not Zoom ...I think Danielle may know:


I think she does too, he he  :  
The parents to be are both very stunning.. You must be so excited about your new baby  and congrats on your upcoming litters.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Maybe I will be ready for a pup when this new pup is a mom or dad. I forgot which sex you are getting!

Will definitely be gorgeous excellent dogs!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Tally's mom Can Ch Gracie- who is just about to finish her Am Ch is going to be bred to Joseph next year. I can just imagine the fluff and flowy coats that will result, plus the sweetsilly good dispositions. i just want to kiss all those little square face even though they are not even close to concieved yet. I think I am a little golden retriever crazy.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

What breeder owns Joseph?


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I found him!


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

WOW! Nautilus has ALOT of dogs!


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## DelmarvaGold (Mar 7, 2006)

Ljilly28 said:


> I'm glad Damama joined in on the chase. Finally!!! I found it!!!! Grampa is my sweetheart, Joseph? The GO litter. Took some hints, but it makes total sense. Friends from the forum? I got it, I got it.



I can't figure it out


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## 3459 (Dec 27, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> I think I am a little golden retriever crazy.


Me, too! :


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## 3459 (Dec 27, 2007)

DelmarvaGold said:


> I can't figure it out


 Awww, shucks.


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## 3459 (Dec 27, 2007)

One thing's for sure -- they are going to be beautiful classic golden pups!


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Even though I know, I still don't get the Pooh hint. I'll have to research more! : )


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## SunGold (Feb 27, 2007)

I have to agree with you Heather... I had inquired about a few breedings and was shocked with the prices. My pet puppies are $1,200 and my show puppies are $1,500 with full reg, co-owns are at pet price with puppy back or stud service. I've also been told I'm "undercutting the market" by another local breeder, but I just can't justify charging more.

GOod luck with your new boy!


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

DelmarvaGold said:


> I can't figure it out


LMAO!!!!!! I am just chuckling here....I think we should let the cat outa the bag! eh SUE!!!! I am thrilled that Sue has approved us for PICK BOY! out of the GO litter --J.B. & Kelsee  I LOVE her Brady and J.B & Kelsee  so guys now lets think of a NAME!!!!!!!! GO Litter 

my thoughts right now are:
Delmarva Arcane Good T' GO :wavey:


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

Too cool! It's neat to see a 'bond' form between great breeders on this forum.
This will be a fun one to follow

I was searching names and found a neat site, you might like it:
http://www.bowwow.com.au/index.asp

And for some reason that "Go Go Gadget" song is in my head now, :no:


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Debles said:


> What breeder owns Joseph?


Julie at Nautilus. He is Nautilus Joe Millionaire. Tally is Casanova though, not Joseph.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

My mom is a Nautilus addict.

http://www.nautilusgoldens.com/


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## DanielleH (Nov 4, 2006)

Ljilly28 said:


> My mom is a Nautilus addict.
> 
> http://www.nautilusgoldens.com/


I love their dogs, especially Joe Millionaire, Ritz and Raymond..


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Here's Joseph


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## DanielleH (Nov 4, 2006)

Ljilly28 said:


> Here's Joseph


:heartbeat:heartbeat One of these days I would love to have a Nautilus puppy..


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

It was a Joseph puppy that helped me make the decision to go Golden. I had been researching for about six months when one day I saw this woman walking the most beautiful 10 month old Golden, it was one of Joseph's puppy. The next day I started contacting breeders.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

cubbysan said:


> It was a Joseph puppy that helped me make the decision to go Golden. I had been researching for about six months when one day I saw this woman walking the most beautiful 10 month old Golden, it was one of Joseph's puppy. The next day I started contacting breeders.


you have a gorgeous Twin Beau D goldie, right? A TBD girl founded Nautilus, so you went back to the source!


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## ksipola (Jan 23, 2008)

Hello-
I saw your boy that you are placing on you website. He is gorgeous!! We also bought a male that was 1 1/2 from a breeder (Delmarva). It was great getting an adult. I wish I could drive there and get that boy of yours!! We would do an adult from a great breeder again in a second!!


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> you have a gorgeous Twin Beau D goldie, right? A TBD girl founded Nautilus, so you went back to the source!


That is exactly what I did, I followed Joseph's pedigree, and found a Twin Beau D puppy.

I just found out that Numoon Goldens is only a town over from me.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

ksipola said:


> Hello-
> I saw your boy that you are placing on you website. He is gorgeous!! We also bought a male that was 1 1/2 from a breeder (Delmarva). It was great getting an adult. I wish I could drive there and get that boy of yours!! We would do an adult from a great breeder again in a second!!


are you speaking of my boy? Chase? he is a fun loving sweet guy! Someone will be fortunate to get him!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Will your new boy pup be half-brother to Capri?


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## DelmarvaGold (Mar 7, 2006)

Ljilly28 said:


> Will your new boy pup be half-brother to Capri?


Yes, he will be half brother to Capri...who is maturing very nicely


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## Dinsdale (Feb 26, 2008)

Beautiful looking dogs.
As far as "Go" names go, I just have to observe that in homage to a current film/ancient cartoon, many a folk of a certain vintage might appreciate "Go Speedracer!"


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Go For Broke, Play Hard Or Go Home, Go, Dog, Go , Oh, The Places You'll Go, Go Forth and Prosper, Go West Young Man, Go Down to The River, The Go-To Guy, Going Once Going Twice, Wake Me Up Before You Go Go.. . hmm, Go takes a little thought. Where Does The Money Go, Where Does The Time Go, Give and Go, Go-getter, But definitely not Go Ask Alice and not Go Go Dancer since he's a boy. Touch and Go, So It Goes, Merry-Go-Round, Go-Cart, Go For It, Go Native, Go First?


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

I like "The Go To Guy" good one, I know who to come to for help LOL cause I suck.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

If I were lucky enough to have a puppy from this litter, I would name him after one of my three favorite books:Go Tell It On The Mountain, The MovieGoer(Walker Percy) Or Go Down Moses (Faulkner). Poor pup would never recover. The Give and Go would be cooler.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

If I got to name him, he'd be Go Huskers!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Debles said:


> If I got to name him, he'd be Go Huskers!


Ah, those Cornhuskers. My friends JK&Denise are from Nebraska, and I am familiar with this passion of yours Lol.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Well, you know it's all we have here besides cows and cornfields! LOL!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Well, I'm going to grade tests before I get started on names for this "Liver" litter. It wouldnt be pretty.

http://www.prairiewyn.com/liverlitter.htm


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> Well, I'm going to grade tests before I get started on names for this "Liver" litter. It wouldnt be pretty.
> 
> http://www.prairiewyn.com/liverlitter.htm


*"Liver alone, Cheese mine"*
_Three male dogs encounter a beautiful female poodle and immediately fall in love. Well aware of her own charms and her effect on males, she announces, "I want a mate with brains, therefore I will only date the dog who creates an imaginative, intelligent sentence using the words, 'cheese' and 'liver.'" 

The black Labrador retriever quickly responds, "I love cheese and liver." 

"How childish," huffs the poodle. "That shows no imagination or intelligence whatsoever." 

She turns to the cocker spaniel who responds tentatively, "Uh, I hate cheese and liver?" 

The poodle shows her disgust. "That's no better than the other sentence! What about you, Mr. Chihuahua?" 

The tiny dog grins, turns to the other two males and says, "Liver alone! Cheese mine!" _


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> Well, I'm going to grade tests before I get started on names for this "Liver" litter. It wouldnt be pretty.
> 
> http://www.prairiewyn.com/liverlitter.htm


They are in Iowa. Lots of cows and cornfields there too! LOL!
Don't know about Liver. : (
Love 'er or Liver?


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## 3459 (Dec 27, 2007)

Oh, Moverking, "Liver alone, Cheese mine"!!! Thanks for the giggles!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

We are a great bunch for names- both liver ones are hillarious.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Hilarious names!!!! I love the liver theme!


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> Go For Broke, Play Hard Or Go Home, Go, Dog, Go , Oh, The Places You'll Go, Go Forth and Prosper, Go West Young Man, Go Down to The River, The Go-To Guy, Going Once Going Twice, Wake Me Up Before You Go Go.. . hmm, Go takes a little thought. Where Does The Money Go, Where Does The Time Go, Give and Go, Go-getter, But definitely not Go Ask Alice and not Go Go Dancer since he's a boy. Touch and Go, So It Goes, Merry-Go-Round, Go-Cart, Go For It, Go Native, Go First?


You're GO OD!!!!: any idea for the PAID THEME? i gotta GO to work ..night all:wave:


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

arcane said:


> You're GO OD!!!!: any idea for the PAID THEME? i gotta GO to work ..night all:wave:


Paid Holiday 
Paid The Piper(If youre gonna play, you gotta pay)
Paid Premium or Premium Paid
Trifecta Paid
Paid The Big Bucks
Paid In Full
Paid Homage/ Paid Respects/ Paid Tribute
Paid in Gold
Paid Cash
Price Paid
Crime Paid
Paid in Pennies
Paid Off/Paid Off Big
Paid Tha Cost to Be Da Bos (Snoop Doggy Dog!)
Paid the Devil His Due
Paid in Kisses


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> Paid Holiday
> Paid The Piper(If youre gonna play, you gotta pay)
> Trifecta Paid
> Paid The Big Bucks
> ...


YOU ROCK!!!:thanks::banana:


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Pre Paid
Paid Back In Spades
Paid In Kind
Paid His Own Way/ Paid Her Way/ Paid The Way/Paid Our Way
Paid Attention or "Attention Must Be Paid" (poem/ famous line from Arthur Miller play)
Paid By The Hour

Names are so much fun- much more fun than doing my paperwork!


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> Paid Tha Cost to Be Da Bos (Snoop Doggy Dog!)


that would have been perfect if Tauri had of been bred to Boston


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## chesneygirl007 (Nov 5, 2007)

Here on the east coast in NJ golden retrievers go for alot of money. I know most american golden retrievers are priced around $1600 for a pet puppy and a british golden the cheapest i found in NJ was $2000. Nj is very expenisve and since we dont have alot of british golden retreiver breeders in the area they can charge that much and get it. The most I have found was $3800 There is only a handful of people that actually breed the british kind and alot of people like that kind right now. They both are beautiful though.

Even if you go out of state with the gas and travel costs the goldens in NJ are probably cheaper. That happened to me I had a reservation for a golden in NC and she pushed her price up to $1800 when the pups were born and then add in gas and travel time and hotel stay, well the golden breeder in NJ was cheaper at that point then.

Kim


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Maybe for the GO litter, Far-go, Mar-go, Tan-go, Mango, Songo, Wingo- or is that cheating?


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I asked on another thread why litters have themes?


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## 3459 (Dec 27, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> Maybe for the GO litter, Far-go, Mar-go, Tan-go, Mango, Songo, Wingo- or is that cheating?


It probably depends on the breeder's wishes. I saw a "Me" litter that just required the consecutive letters, so words like come, game, moment, meaning and such were all allowed in the name.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Delmarva makes the call!


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

breeders add themes to their litters to identify quickly littermate or particular breedings. I think they are fun 

I am back to the drawing board looking for a new boy pup :uhoh: and after this weekends seminar I shall be very choosy! I learned alot about structure/faults/movement  

Sue is keeping pick boy for herself to answer the question before it's asked!!!


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## ScottieNBaileysMom (Jun 1, 2008)

I agree the naming theme is fun. Birmans (cat breed) name all their litters after a certain letter of the alphabet for a certain year. So like in 2003, it was the 'A' year, 2004 was the 'B' year, etc.

I used to want to get into breeding/showing Birmans but with a young family I don't have the financial resources or the time available to devote the time needed to such a hobby... at least in order to do it right. 

I do give reputable breeders a lot of credit. Just me learning and becoming familiar with the cat segment made me realize how expensive it is to breed. Club dues, traveling to shows, show registration fees, genetic testing, the list goes on.... and that was cats (I spent $500 for our "pet quality" cat)... so I can only imagine how much more dogs would be.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

How about a Jetoca's Windward Passage show pup? 
GINO IS EXCITED ABOUT THE FOLLOWING : 
Gino X Claircrest's Dream Come True - Due mid June
Contact: Julie Caruthers - Jetoca Goldens
[email protected]

http://www.everythinggolden.com/gino.htm

http://www.everythinggolden.com/back_cover.htm

http://www.claircrest.com/trudy.htm

http://www.shorlinegoldens.com/EG_Mariner.html

I loved their last ltter


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Or, if you like the Nautilus type:

http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=293014
Striker








Young Dazzle








with Jag








Dazzle as a pup








Am/Can CH Nautilus Goldiva's Good N Plenty	
AmCH Nautilus Purple Passion	
CH Nautilus Vanilla Ice OS	
BIS BISS Am./Can. CH. Rush Hill's Haagen-Dazs CDX JH AX OAJ WCX VCX OS SDHF; Can. CD, WC	
CH Tangleloft Odds On Pebwin CD WC VC OS
Am/Can Ch Kinsha's Flight to Rush Hill OD
Ch. Nautilus Maybelline Y Don't Ya Be Tru	
Am. Ch Nautilus King Neptune BISS,OS
Nautilus Crystal Rainbow
Am. CH Nautilus Flirt In The Jaguar OD	
Am. Ch Nautilus King Neptune BISS,OS	
Am CH Nautilus Little Red Corvette
Am/Can/Bda CH Nautilus Boston Cream Pie SDHF, OD
Am. CH Nautilus Fabulous Thunderbird OD	
Am. Ch. Faera's Future Classic OS
Am. CH. Nautilus Treasure Trove OD
Nautilus New Years Toast	
Am. Ch Nautilus King Neptune BISS,OS	
Am CH Nautilus Little Red Corvette
Am/Can/Bda CH Nautilus Boston Cream Pie SDHF, OD
Maid of the Mist	
Wyvan Merrigo Likely KCR
Cornish Cream Curl KCR
Am. CH Nautilus Fabulous Thunderbird OD	
Am. Ch. Faera's Future Classic OS	
Am CH Asterling's Buster Keaton OS
Am CH Faera's Puppy Kidd OD
Am. CH. Nautilus Treasure Trove OD	
BISS Am. CH. Asterling Go Getm Gangbuster OS SDHF
Am./Can. CH. Twin-Beau-D Nautilus Seastar OD
Can CH Goldiva's Exit to Eden	
AmCH Nautilus Just A Gigilo SDHF	
CH Pebwin XPDNC OS SDHF	
BISS CH Bravo's Old Spice SDHF, OS	
BISS/AM/MEX/AMS/WC CH Sheffield-Ducat's Spellbound SDHF,OS
Ginge Ain't Whistling Dixie OD
CH Pebwin Razzle Dazzle JH SDHF OD	
CH Sunshine Hill's USA Wrangler
CH Pebwin Bona Fide Nirvana OD
Am. CH Nautilus Flirt In The Jaguar OD	
Am. Ch Nautilus King Neptune BISS,OS	
Am CH Nautilus Little Red Corvette
Am/Can/Bda CH Nautilus Boston Cream Pie SDHF, OD
Am. CH Nautilus Fabulous Thunderbird OD	
Am. Ch. Faera's Future Classic OS
Am. CH. Nautilus Treasure Trove OD
Goldiva's Catch Me If U Can CGC	
Can. CH Lissany HyVal's Promises Time RN,CGC	
Ch Tricon's Texas Star At Wexford	
Am./Can. CH. Sunnybrae Beau Geste Pollux CD JH WC VC OS
Tricon Wish Upon A Star CD JH WCX OD
CanCH SunnyBrae Waltz to Lissany	
BIS BISS Am.CH. Lovejoy's Catchme If U CanCan SDHF Am and Can OS
HyVallee's SunnyBrae Hustle CD
Lord Penfolds Grand Amber CGC


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## ksipola (Jan 23, 2008)

*Chase*



arcane said:


> are you speaking of my boy? Chase? he is a fun loving sweet guy! Someone will be fortunate to get him!


Yep-that's him!! I could squeeze him right now!


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Any puppy-finding news?


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> Any puppy-finding news?


i am not looking...too much on my plate right now, and there may be a couple nice breedings coming up late in the year here in Canada...I'm gonna sit on it for a bit


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Hi Heather 
Somehow I have never seen this thread. When I was looking for a pup I was SHOCKED and SPEECHLESS when one breeder quoted me a price of $2000 PLUS the breeder had breeding rights on the bitch. I was so glad for email at that moment as if I had been on the phone the silence would have been VERY awkward. Neither the sire or dam had any titles before or after their name and this is a long time Golden breeder - over 25 years. As it turned out I had not looked far enough back in the pedigree and it was not a good match for me.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

The process for finding the puppy with the best possible prospects seems like a combination of word-of-mouth, reputation, and luck. There's a west coast litter that isnt even bred or announced yet who has had three HUNDRED inquiries. Puppies like that must go only to other experienced breeders? Do you think that was an exageration or could it possibly be true?


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

AmbikaGR said:


> Hi Heather
> Somehow I have never seen this thread. When I was looking for a pup I was SHOCKED and SPEECHLESS when one breeder quoted me a price of $2000 PLUS the breeder had breeding rights on the bitch. I was so glad for email at that moment as if I had been on the phone the silence would have been VERY awkward. Neither the sire or dam had any titles before or after their name and this is a long time Golden breeder - over 25 years. As it turned out I had not looked far enough back in the pedigree and it was not a good match for me.


The breeding rights part is very confusing to me as i have been considering co owning a show puppy and looking at various litters etc.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Ljilly28 said:


> The breeding rights part is very confusing to me as i have been considering co owning a show puppy and looking at various litters etc.


I think for myself outright owning is preferable. You pay more upfront and take your chances but in reality there are no (or few strings) attached. I can't see me ever co-owing or having a huge amount of conditions. Yes there may be many nice breedings passed up due to this fact but there are still breeders with nice breedings that are more reasonable in their dealings...It may just be a matter of patience and finding them ...


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

arcane said:


> I think for myself outright owning is preferable. You pay more upfront and take your chances but in reality there are no (or few strings) attached. I can't see me ever co-owing or having a huge amount of conditions. Yes there may be many nice breedings passed up due to this fact but there are still breeders with nice breedings that are more reasonable in their dealings...It may just be a matter of patience and finding them ...


I just passed up a gorgeous pup beacause they wanted a co-ownership with a TON of strings attached. I couldn't do it.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

I guess it just depends on how much $$$ you are willing to put in and how much you want the line. I won't go through life not trusting people and not all co-ownerships end badly. I think people only want to hear the horror stories. Its also in the way you conduct and organize it. When both parties have been forth coming and both know exactly what is expected there is rarely a problem. Honestly, its fine, its everyones choice but I would think people on this forum (as I believe ecspecially the breeders here are educated) would understand the majority of other breeders reasons to co-own. Believe me most of the time its not be iggnorant, snobby and controlling like everyone seems to want to think


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

My foundation girl came with a verbal co-own, nothing on paper, we never had an issue, all followed according to plan and it was a great experience...I agree agreements are only as good as the 2 parties entering into them....but I still prefer to outright own my dogs...that's just me


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Ash said:


> I guess it just depends on how much $$$ you are willing to put in and how much you want the line. I won't go through life not trusting people and not all co-ownerships end badly. I think people only want to hear the horror stories. Its also in the way you conduct and organize it. When both parties have been forth coming and both know exactly what is expected there is rarely a problem. Honestly, its fine, its everyones choice but I would think people on this forum (as I believe ecspecially the breeders here are educated) would understand the majority of other breeders reasons to co-own. Believe me most of the time its not be iggnorant, snobby and controlling like everyone seems to want to think


From my brief time in dogs I have found the "worst" experiences were between friends who proceeded on nothing more than a handshake. The moost successful were the ones where everything was written down and understood before agreeing to the "partnership".
Would you agree that the co-ownerships that seem to work the best are among breeders as they tend to have a better understanding of the 'dog game"? While non-breeding folks tend to not truly understand what some co-ownerships involve?


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

AmbikaGR said:


> From my brief time in dogs I have found the "worst" experiences were between friends who proceeded on nothing more than a handshake. The moost successful were the ones where everything was written down and understood before agreeing to the "partnership".
> Would you agree that the co-ownerships that seem to work the best are among breeders as they tend to have a better understanding of the 'dog game"? While non-breeding folks tend to not truly understand what some co-ownerships involve?


No, I have to agree totally. Co-ownerships amongst friends rarly work if they do many parts are not pleasent. I find Breeder to Breeder usually work also Breeder to Foster home and Breeder to Home strating a kennel or participating in a venue of competition works well but I agree friends usually don't. I agree no matter how well you think you know the person use a contract if you encounter someone that does not want a contract I simply would just decline. Its just seems negitive towards breeders policies their co-ownership agreement and the prices of their dogs. Why should Breeders have sell higher quality dogs for lower quality prices? Its just seems like everyone wants something for nothing.


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## telsmith1 (Sep 11, 2006)

Ash said:


> I guess it just depends on how much $$$ you are willing to put in and how much you want the line. I won't go through life not trusting people and not all co-ownerships end badly. I think people only want to hear the horror stories. Its also in the way you conduct and organize it. When both parties have been forth coming and both know exactly what is expected there is rarely a problem. Honestly, its fine, its everyones choice but I would think people on this forum (as I believe ecspecially the breeders here are educated) would understand the majority of other breeders reasons to co-own. Believe me most of the time its not be iggnorant, snobby and controlling like everyone seems to want to think


I wasn't talking about you Ash  I had been talking to another breeder that wanted a US ch on the dog first, two puppies back from a breeding that they chose and $5000 in a damages clause if there was an accidental breeding. I didnt know the guy at all and didn't feel comfortable signing an agreement like that with him. If I had felt comfortable with him, it may have been different.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

Ash said:


> Its just seems negitive towards breeders policies their co-ownership agreement and the prices of their dogs. Why should Breeders have sell higher quality dogs for lower quality prices? Its just seems like everyone wants something for nothing.


I hope I am reading and understanding this correctly  no one said anyone wants something for nothing...IMO it is much easier all around to outright own a dog. If *^%$ happens and the dog doesn't clear or doesn't turn out ...oh well, place in a pet home and carry on...good dealings can turn bad and then there are hard feelings all around...there are breeders asking crazy amounts for their show puppies & all kinds of strings attached. For some it is worth it for others NOT Different strokes for different folks!


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