# Do you prefer them smart?



## Kohanagold (Nov 5, 2008)

I'm just curious and more for fun than anything, but do you prefer to train dogs that are intelligent or do you prefer them a bit on the dumb side?

I used to think I liked training the smart ones. They pick it up quickly and away you go. But then, I got Sydney. LOL. She's quick as a whip, and you've always got to be a step ahead. She is independant and thinks for herself and requires minimal direction. But sometimes the darn dog is too smart and its exhausting for me to keep up to her. Even our last rally round (which she had NQed by then anyhow, so we were just having fun), the judge commented how at one of the signs, the way Sydney performed it was the most creative way she'd seen. "Creative" in ringspeak is never good.... well maybe for comic relief!

So now, I'm leaning more toward the "dumb" dog. Paige isn't dumb, dont get me wrong, but she is less confident and not so keen on thinking for herself. She seeks leadership and direction. She takes a bit longer to "get it", but once she's got the concept, look out. I found with Sydney, even if she gets it, she doesnt always do it. Or she does it "her way" (see "creative" comment above). 

I love them both, for sure, but sometimes a change in learning style is nice too. And some days, I, quite frankly, get sick of being outsmarted by the dog! What's your dogs learning style, and which do you prefer? BJ


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

I don't mind either way. I don't want to say dumb but some are just not as quick as others. They still pick things up but it may take a little longer. Truth be told I can deal either way. My pet peeve is soft dogs more then anything.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I prefer them willing. Doesn't matter if they're smart or not, as long as they've got a good work ethic.


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## Lisa_and_Willow. (Dec 18, 2007)

Diesel frustrates me because he learns things instantly and then thinks 'what is the point of that?' He was moved to the top class in our obedience school but he hated heelwork and would constantly anticipate my every move to either hurry to finish the excerise or grind to a stop. I have moved him down a class and really only take him for socialization now. He is brilliant at tracking and retrieving so I consentrate on things he will willingly do.

Willow has now moved into Diesel's spot in class. She loves to learn and is so easy to work with. She follows commands just because I give them and she enjoys getting things right. 

I suppose if I had to compare their intelligence I feel that Diesel is smarter than Willow. His memory for people and places is far better than hers. But she is so charming and biddable I would rather work with her!

I suppose in the end I just want a dog that likes to learn.


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## Joanne & Asia (Jul 23, 2007)

I found that having a smart "hard" dog was deceiving when it came to training progress. Asia picked up commands very quickly and loves to please so could fool me and the trainer into thinking she was submitting but in reality was just going with the flow during training sesions until we realized it! More NILF training and we licked the dominance issue for the most part but she does need reminders at times as you give her an inch she will try to take a mile.She knows when we are in training mode and behaves perfetly but out of that mode is sometimes a different story with my little smartie pants.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

A dumb Golden is only making you think it's dumb, which makes it very smart indeed


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> I prefer them willing. Doesn't matter if they're smart or not, as long as they've got a good work ethic.


EXACTLY
Some dogs are certainly "more intelligent" by our standards in that they need fewer repetitions to understand something. However it is BIDDABILITY or WILLINGNESS that will get you much farther. I'd rather take a "less intelligent" one with high biddability than an extremely quick learner who could give a flip if I wanted them to do it or not.
My field trainer is a big stickler for this. She has trained -- and sent home -- many a dog for not having enough biddability. Not only do you put in so much more work convincing the dog it's a good idea to work with you, but it just isn't fun.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I prefer them like Max!!! She was born PERFECT!!! Seriously I did not train her, she trained me. We did an obedience class early in her life, and the trainer said "you've done this before!" No it was her first class, and mine with any dog. When we had Belle in obedience the trainer was on Max's leash once and after a few minutes asked "is she always like this?" I said "you mean perfect? Yes!" She SERIOUSLY spoiled DH and I. EASY PEASY!!!! 

Willing is the most important ingredient. However I do find smart dogs a good challenge, they keep me on my toes! I don't think I have ever not had a willing dog.


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## my4goldens (Jan 21, 2009)

Willing and eager to please. My Tess is extremely smart, which at times wasn't always a good thing. She was smart enough to know she didn't like obedience work, did it but not always with a good attitude. Raider is smart too, but a lot more willing worker with a terrific attitude. Tess was very independent, Raider is a little more needy which seems to make him work a little harder to please me.


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

Casey can learn almost anything in 2-3 reps. He is head and tails beyond our last golden (and all of the other dogs I have had). However, he is also easily bored, and unless he feels there is something in it for him( treats, fun, treats) , will default to observing the world go by... He is much more of a challenge to train than Bracken (a relative of his) who took much longer to learn, but once she had it felt it was her duty to perform when asked, regardless. He is, however, a lot of fun to work with and makes me feel like an amazing trainer, especially when he decides to be "on" in the ring. Casey has made me a better trainer, and much more attentive to my dog in the ring.


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

No. Eager to please, yes; willing, absolutely; driven, yes; happy-to-work, you bet...

If I wanted crazy smart, I would have gotten a BC.


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## katieanddusty (Feb 9, 2006)

I prefer a dog that's fearless and not easy to throw off, whether you want to interpret that as really smart or really dumb. I love my Dusty, but I also don't miss having to worry about whether the new teeter would be really noisy and scare him or anything like that. Boo couldn't care less about things that would scare most dogs, and he's really good at just doing whatever was in front of him without thinking about it. When I was teaching him the chute he wouldn't run into it with me on the other side holding it open, so I decided to try just running him through it and through he went. He pretty much taught himself the teeter by sneaking behind me and running up it at class, rode it down and stuck the contact like he'd been doing it for months. Of course I lowered it and worked our way back up, did some holding the end up to try for more of a slide, etc. But I thought it was pretty cool that he just ran up that teeter and wasn't even scared enough to forget about his 2-on 2-off.

Dogs are so different, Boo is really hard to lure while Dusty will glue his nose to anything that sort of looks like food. To teach Boo left and right, instead of shaping or luring with a treat, I had to say "left" while throwing a ball to his left hundreds of times. I could teach Dusty that in five minutes by sticking my hand in my pocket then moving my fist in a circle, and petting/praising him for a while once he spins. Boo is harder to shape because he'll offer me a down, eye contact for a while, and then start barking his little head off and never stop. Dusty will offer a lot more (including interaction with any object that's nearby), but only when he's absolutely certain that it's time to play offering stuff, otherwise he'll sit there and stare at my hand forever because he doesn't have the confidence to just go for it. So they're easier to teach different things. I'd rather teach Boo the chute, but I'd rather teach Dusty most tricks and stuff.


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## Kelmel (Apr 7, 2009)

Your story about Sydney's creativity made me laugh :smooch: It sounds like something my Morgan would do. I am not sure if the bigger challenge is Morgan being smart or her independence, but she has so much personality I wouldn't change her.


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

Okay..I wouldn't say that all dogs are dumb. They all have a different personality, and each dog is different. They all teach you something, may it be one thing..or many more things..but that's the joy of training and competing. Dogs are problem solvers and will use their little minds to get what they want..or how to get there. (sorry this is off topic) Connie Cleveland has a GREAT chart of showing how dogs think...so they're really not all that dumb.

You buy the dog, you train it! (lol!) 

Here's Connie's chart:
http://www.dogtrainersworkshop.com/default2.asp?active_page_id=103

(I hope that isn't too off topic...just saying that dogs really aren't 'dumb'. They are all smart in their own little way...)
Happy Training!


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## Bogey's Mom (Dec 23, 2008)

Ash said:


> I don't mind either way. I don't want to say dumb but some are just not as quick as others. They still pick things up but it may take a little longer. Truth be told I can deal either way. My pet peeve is soft dogs more then anything.


What does "soft" mean, Ash?


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## MaddieMagoo (Aug 14, 2007)

I think what she means in this case as a "soft" dog who is more of a fearful dog. You really can't scold them for something because they will just turn into a "wet noodle". You have to be extra careful with how you train them and have to be as creative as possible to get them to get motivated to do this. I think?? lol...


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## Bogey's Mom (Dec 23, 2008)

Gotcha - thanks!


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

I have to agree with what everyone else said: willingness to please, eagerness to work, and biddability are the best qualities. I think being smart can be a detriment (to people and dogs, lol). If most things in life are easy for you, it is hard to learn something more advanced. My sis' bc/aussie is very, very smart, and because of it doesn't have the patience to learn tricks that require several steps and more work. If she can't figure it out fast (like normal) than it isn't worth it. No work ethic, because she doesn't have to work to get it!


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

Ash said:


> My pet peeve is soft dogs more then anything.


100% agree.


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## Kohanagold (Nov 5, 2008)

Its interesting to see what everyone thinks. Really, I use the term "dumb" as more of a perspective than anything. I dont really think dogs are "dumb". LOL. But I do look at my 2 and see the differences. Paige is generally a softER dog... not super soft, but not generally confident. I joke with my sister all the time that she really doesn't know anything, but I give a command, and Sydney will do it and Paige just copies, not really realizing what she's doing. I dont think that's the case so much anymore. But, agility is NOT Paige's thing... she's more into obedience. Sydney is more independant and the furthest thing from "soft" or a "shrinking violet" and loves agility, tracking, and really anything where she can prove to the world that she's smarter than her mom! Paige is more content to keep her feet on the ground (she's afraid of heights, I think. LOL) and she likes me to take charge so she doesn't have to think. I love them both, and really, Sydney is a ton of fun, but can be very exhausting. I think there's a term for dogs like her...... LOL. Paige is my mommy's girl and a bit more cautious and hates to make mistakes. Sydney couldn't care less. 

I have a friend that has a theory. According to her theory, everytime a dog knocks a bar, their confidence sags and they need to jump at least twice as many bars cleanly to boost their confidence back up. The trial before Sydney finished her AgN, I swear to you, there wasn't a jump left up. She had knocked ALL the bars... every last one. She left the ring with the hugest grin and her tail up as if to say "boy, that was fun!". The next day she qualified for her final Q to get her title. She, quite frankly, couldn't care less, and another friend even commented that the first few bars, she though "oh no... what is she doing??" and after a few more, realized that Sydney was playing the game HER way and somewhere along the line decided that it was more fun to be a bull than to be elegant. After that though, we got out a practice jump and when she knocked it, I made an "Argh!" sound and then when she jumped it cleanly, I threw a party. She figured out the point then, and we havent had a bar knocking problem since (though I haven't done agility with her in quite some time). BJ


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Bogey's Mom said:


> What does "soft" mean, Ash?


A soft dog is one that with wilt and over-submit while being corrected or reprimanded. Generally they don't deal with adversity well.


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## goldengirl09 (Jul 23, 2009)

My golden is only 4 months and already outsmarting me. I don't let him eat the dirt/moss in our backyard. He knows I will take it out of his mouth if I seem him with it so he's started taking a mouthful of it and running over to lay by a toy. It looks like he's chewing on his toy and when I get close I see, he's actually eating dirt!! lol, he's done a few things like this lately. He's one sly dog.


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## Tahla9999 (Nov 21, 2008)

I prefer very intelligent. Kai is very intelligent, learns things very quickly and never forgets. You can teach him one thing , stop teaching him that thing for a week, and he still remembers the command. The fact that he has a high will to please is a plus.


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## Heidi36oh (Feb 27, 2007)

I wouldn't call any one mine dumb, just a little slower..LOL

Jack and Sadie are very smart, I had Jack trained to open the fridge and get me a pop, until DH decided it was a bad idea because he would also get all the food in there:doh:

Chloe and Chewie are my Clown's, they learn quick but do it on their terms!


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## Bogart'sMom (Sep 16, 2005)

Hi BJ,
My Dani girlie, girlie was more of an independent thinker. She also was smart 14 years ago we still learned the old school of teaching a dog which she didn't enjoy and I didn't like it either. She was a lot harder going through brush or prikly bushes. Bogart would never think of going through something like that and stays on the nice trail thank you very much:bowl:. He is a very smart boy tries to please alot more. But he is so much more of a softie then Dani ever was. Dani could sometimes be a little Bitchy when dogs didn't behave the way she thought they should. Bogart is just very unconfrontational, he is a lover and pushover for the most part. 
He was an easy puppy were I thought Man, I could have another one just like im right after he grew up. With Dani it took over 10.5 years to get another puppy (Bogart) in the house. She was just soooooo much puppy, holy cow. I have to say she was my first dog and I learned with her. I made lots of misstakes with her for sure but man was I happy when the puppy time was over with :.
I still miss my little sweetheart even though she has been gone over 4 years now (WOW).


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## Kohanagold (Nov 5, 2008)

Bogart'sMom said:


> I still miss my little sweetheart even though she has been gone over 4 years now (WOW).


Wow Elke! I cant believe its been that long. Dani sure was special though and even when I read about you and Bogart, I remember her and thank her for bringing him into your life. It just doesn't seem like its been over 4 yrs!

Sydney is much like Dani was... My Keesie tends to be a bit stubborn and not listen, and at times, Sydney will get annoyed and its as though she tells her "My mom said...!". Girls! LOL


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