# Nail trimming and Acepromazine.



## Rob's GRs

I have owned Hogan for about 2 years now. Prior to my owning him he was primarily an outside dog and must have not had his nails done much, or at all. When I adopted him it has been a constant battle to do his nails and his behavior towords it has never changed, or has gotten worse. I have always had to muzzle him as he will bite if given the chance....... and yesterday he got the chance. His muzzle came off during nail trimming and when I went to replace it I got bit pretty bad on the right hand that I probably should have gotten a stitch or two from a doctor. My vet last year had recommended, and given me, Acepromazine to use on Hogan 30 minutes prior to doing his nails. Hogan was a wild boy at the vets as well when I had his nails done in there last year during a routine exam. The vet gave me 6 pills to try but I never did. I never liked the idea of doping up a dog but now I think I may have to since nothing else for this behavior that I have tried has ever worked with him.

Does anyone else use Acepromazine to trim dogs nails and does it work?


----------



## justmejanis

Oh Rob I am sorry you got bit and make sure to keep an eye on that hand. Infection can set in quickly. Be very careful.

I have no idea about using Ace but I would sure give it a try. I think this could make the whole nail trimming a much easier job and not such an ordeal. Clearly this is traumatic for both you and Hogan. 

I have a friend who is a vet, I can ask her about it. I think it is worth a try though.


----------



## Rob's GRs

Thanks Janis...

I should mention that nail trimming is Hogan's only bad issue. I can clean his ear, trim the hair in his ears, and even trim the hair on and around his paws......... but if the nail trimmer comes into play we have a Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde dog.....


----------



## CarolinaCasey

Just wishing you some luck! Nails are a big trigger for a lot of dogs. I've heard of Acepromazine being used- it wouldn't hurt to try it.


----------



## mylissyk

I'm so sorry you got bit. Watch for infection, and just an fyi, the ER probably would stitch it right after the bite, but a primary doctor told me that dog bites really should not be stitched to avoid trapping bacteria in the wound. I hope it heals without any problem.

If you need to do them now, the ace will help. But you could also start desensitizing him to the nail clippers. Bring it out near him, but not close enough that he reacts to it, and start giving him treats, move it closer and keep giving treats until you can set it next to him without him moving away, but keep treating him. You'll keep doing that until you can touch him with the clippers but not trying to clip his nail, while treating, and he doesn't move away.

It should work, but it may take days or weeks of practice before he will tolerate the clippers touching him. In the meantime, play with his toes and nails while the clippers are close by but not in your hand.


----------



## Rob's GRs

We have tried some of the training you mentioned which has worked well up to the point of when nail clippers need to go around the nail for clipping. This is where it all fails. Everything before that is not bad. I can even use scirrors on his paws to cut fur. Even if these scirrors touch the nail it is not too bad of a reaction. And in the 2 years I have been doing his nails I have never even made him bleed..........

I think another issue with this that may have recently made things "worse" is Hogan was put on thyroid meds about 6 months ago. Things are in the normal range now for his thyroid but this could make him a little more aware or hyper of things he fears.

My vet says that some dogs have such high fear of things that some may never fully adjust to certain things like trimming nails or thunderstorms.


----------



## Noey

I feel your pain.

Scout since day one hates his nails clipped. I took him to the vet to make sure something was not wrong with his toes...he screamed when I clipped...they checked him out everything is fine.

So they go to clip him, took him into a room, all I hear is Scout howling and sounding like he is being killed. It took 3 people - 2 to hold and one to clip - on a 6 month old puppy. They had to roll him on his side in order to keep him still. 

I've been working with him for months and it's getting a little better - but it's very hard. A nail clipping can take over 30 mins. I even will put a dab of peanut butter on the paw I'm not clipping to distract or get a chew with peanut butter on it to distract. Which works somewhat.

I tend to do lots of paw holding games with him and lots of non-clipping nail touching. I don't think he will ever be easy. I was thinking last time I clipped I might have to muzzle as he got that "look" about him where I stopped because he might snap.

Noah does not like it, but lets me do the process.


----------



## scottbldr

I would suggest finding a positive based clicker trainer to help with desensitization. A great example of what can be achieved can be seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgEwiH8CeUE

I've been in your shoes. I'll never use Ace or muscle my dog to trim nails again. We take baby steps and I use a Dremel on one of my dogs and a Pedi Paw my older reactive boy.

Lots of treats and praise and think one nail at a time. Remain very calm and consistent in your approach. Getting frustrated, angry or forcefull will only make things worse. There were days when we started this process that I was doing one or two nails on my reactive boy EVERY day for month...forcing a dog that is fearful will only make things worse. 

I'll post more later.

Robert


----------



## moverking

scottbldr, THANKS for the video!


----------



## scottbldr

Here's another video....enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHHiJL-OpBE&feature=related
Rear nails are a little tougher to shape but certainly possible. 

Robert


----------



## LibertyME

We used Ace with Lexi...frankly the pills just didn't take the edge off..


----------



## Bob Dylan

I use to use diazepam for Frankie when thunderstorms hit, about 1 hr. before he had an appointment with the groomer. It worked great, but now I give him melatonin 5mg (3-5 tablets) and it just relaxes him so she can do just anything to him.
It was recommended to us by the DVGRR, that is what they use for their dogs when storms hit.
Good Luck and did you have your tetanus shot?
June


----------



## jwemt81

Tucker is the exact same way when it comes to trimming his nails. He turns into a completely different dog when he sees the Dremel or the clippers. I attribute it to the time we took him to PetCo when he was a puppy and had his nails done there. They didn't even take him back to the grooming room and did it right in the middle of the store. The guy was literally sitting on him to hold him still and he ended up quicking him twice. This was when he was only about 10-12 weeks old. We were furious and had a little chat with the manager before we left. Ever since then, Tucker has been absolutely petrified of having his nails done. We have a muzzle, but it doesn't really help. He has managed to get it off with his paws and he will NOT stay still for us. The muzzle makes him even more anxious. It even took multiple people at our vet's office to hold him down to do his nails. We finally started taking him to the groomer at the boarding kennel we use when we travel without the dogs and he gives them absolutely no problems there. They put him up on the table and it only takes one person to do his nails and trim his paw and feet fur, so we just take him there about once a week. I'm hoping that we'll someday be able to do them on our own at home like we do with our other dogs. The kennel only charges $5 for a nail and paw fur trim, so we don't mind going there on a regular basis to keep his nails nice and short. Tyson is an absolute dream. He'll just lie there chewing on a toy while I grind his nails and he barely even seems to notice the Dremel. Hopefully Tucker can one day be like his little brother! :bowl:


----------



## Griffyn'sMom

I was going to suggest the dremel or PediPaws as well. Hate to resort to drugs but you have to do what you must.


----------



## RedDogs

1) Nails are important to keep short, but rarely are a life threatening issue. Find someone competent to help you with the training in the Tuckers Nail Trim video (one of my favorites!). 
2) I would NOT use ace. It can make the dog physically unable to respond but more sensitive to his surroundings. Imagine how scary that would be. Most dogs need increasing doses. The fear increases. The dog may not be able to move. Things get worse. 

But frankly, I view the ace as inhumane. I'm all for chemical restraint. If you're needing to get stuff done, use something else where he isn't aware of what's going on. 

Another training step/hint I picked up this week is to teach the dog to sit still with a towel draped over his head. Apparently many do better when they don't see!

If you're using clippers, try usinig scissor style, not the guillotine style clippers. Or try a dremmel. Practice the whole set up, squeezing his nails with your finger if all is fine up to that point. Try a newer/sharper set of clippers.

Set up a video camera for a training session. Watch his body language. Okay with something and relaxed are two VERY different things. 

Teach him to put his nose in the muzzle and wear it. If he's struggling over just that...he's already worked up.

Do only a nail a day. clip just a super super super tiny bit. Use cat nail clippers.


----------



## MurphyTeller

Rob, 
Have you had any luck with a dremel? I think the actual clipping can be really painful - even if you never catch the kwik, some dogs are really sensitive to the pressure of squeezing the nail. I switched everyone here to the dremel (inc the cat) about 4 years ago - we're all much happier.
Erica


----------



## Rob's GRs

MurphyTeller said:


> Rob,
> Have you had any luck with a dremel? I think the actual clipping can be really painful - even if you never catch the kwik, some dogs are really sensitive to the pressure of squeezing the nail. I switched everyone here to the dremel (inc the cat) about 4 years ago - we're all much happier.
> Erica


I am not sure Hogan would be thrilled with a dremel either as the sound of machine trimmers scares him a bit. If I knew someone near me that owned a dremel I certainly would give it a shot but I do not think it is something I want to buy without trying first. I do currently use scissor type nail clippers.

I was also given another suggestion I may try as well..... It was suggested to me to use a e-collar (which I have one) on him with his muzzle so that he can not get his muzzle off and he might not be able to see the nail clippers as easily. Hogan is very good about letting me put a muzzle on and he has no issues wearing it until the dreadful nail clippers go near the nails......

I do want to add that Hogan is probably one of the smartest dogs I have ever owned. He learned so many commands and tricks much faster and better than my other dogs, but as to why the nail training after all these years went no where must be some extreme fright there. And on the other hand, Liam my not so brightest dog I have ever owned is the best I have ever had to clip nails..... go figure...... LOL.


----------



## LifeOfRiley

I feel for you, Rob. We have the same problem with Riley. He was traumatized by a couple vet techs and we haven't been able to do much with his nails since.
We've been working on it, trying to desensitize him, for about a year now and it's just not working. Like Hogan, he's fine until the clippers get anywhere near his foot. Once they do, look out! It's just what you described, with the Jekyll and Hyde reaction. He's nailed me pretty good a couple times. Hasn't broken skin yet, though. Thankfully. 

We tried a muzzle, too and it worked the first time, but that was it. The second time we tried it, he got completely stressed and was in near-panic mode, so we stopped.
I tried the PediPaws, too and that didn't work. It was still something touching his nails and he was having none of it. So you may or may not have any luck with a dremel.

That's not a bad idea about the e-collar, though. Might be worth a shot.


----------



## Ljilly28

The problem with Acepromazine is that it's not that effective when the dog is worked up, and it can have an opposite effect in a percentage of cases. I really think nice, simple valium is the way to go, and would be a kindness for Hogan and for you. I am SO sorry you were bitten.


----------



## scottbldr

I own and use both a cordless Dremel and a Pedipaw. You can purchase the Pedipaw for around $15..maybe even less now. The Pedipaw is quieter and is less powerful than the Dremel and even my reactive, fearfull boy handles it really well. I think the Pedipaw is a great tool for use in the desensitization process as it presents less of a threat to the dog.

The key to desensitization is patience, patience and more patience. You may have to do several sessions without even turning on the Dremel or PP. Tons of treats and praise just for having it near the dog and then move onto tons of treats and praise for just touching the paws.

Robert


----------



## Finn's Fan

Rob, I'm sorry that you were bitten. I walk and otherwise care for a neighbor's fearful 7-year-old female golden. Cassie's nails were ridiculously long because they never walk her, but they said our vet's office can't take much off because the quick is right down to the tip of the nails. I took her to our vet, and it took FOUR people to get just a smidge of nail off of each toe. Her dad owns a powerful dremel, so I got her acclimated to that with treats and patience. I dremel her every other day now, not a lot at a time, to try to get her nails back to a normal length. Check with colleagues and/or neighbors about borrowing a dremel. You might be surprised that it will work where guillotine or scissor style clippers won't. Good luck!


----------



## Rob's GRs

I contacted my vets office today and spoke with a vet I normally see in that office ,and not the one that gave me the Acepromazine pills 2 years ago. My regular vet would prefer I work with Hogan the best and safest way I can still with nail clipping . However she would prefer I held off on using the Acepromazine for now but did order up some 1mg Alprazolam (Xanex) to give Hogan about an hour before I actually trim his nails. The Xanex may or may not help but she would prefer I try it first before trying the Acepromazine.


----------



## Thor0918

Hey Rob, so sorry you got bit. I don't know too much about the other stuff but, the one thing I do know is I have to do Leo's a little more so he gets used to it.


----------



## danni's_girl

Sorry you got bit 

I just want to echo what a few other people have said about Ace. I would never give it to a dog again. My vet gave it to my dog once and it scared the hell out of me. His reaction to it made me think he was going to die, I'm not even kidding. 

Definitely look into clicker training! I've been using the method from that video with my Golden who has also tried to bite, and have had tremendous success.

Good luck!


----------



## Ranger

I've used it on my horse a few times for teeth floating, sheath cleaning, x-rays and the first time he had to get caulks. I've found ace helps take the edge off enough that it calms them without having them be totally out of it. Usually after the first time they can remember the experience wasn't a bad one and it's not needed again.

I was dating a vet once and complaining about the neighbour's dogs who were barking non-stop for a week and making it hard to study for finals. I'd talked to the neighbours, called the bylaw guys, nothing was stopping these dogs from barking from 2pm til 3am every day. Vet boyfriend brought over some ace, put it in meatballs and tossed them over the fence. The dogs ate the meatballs and napped for the rest of the night and I got some quality studying in.


----------



## FlyingQuizini




----------



## BearValley

Hooray Stephanie!!!

That video should be a sticky.


----------



## LifeOfRiley

Don't know if this will help you Rob, but we just found the magic bullet for Riley and I wanted to pass it along.

Like I said before, we'd been working on it for about a year and were getting absolutely nowhere. Nothing we tried worked. There wasn't a treat or any kind of food that he wouldn't turn away from the second I got near a nail. 
Then we found it. The one 'treat' that he loses his ever-loving mind over and simply cannot resist: Ben & Jerry's Chunky Monkey ice cream. (Chocolate pieces removed, of course.) 

It takes two people. Mom holds the container and lets him lick away to his heart's content while I clip. He did turn around and nail me once, but he decided that the ice cream was more important than biting me. I've been able to clip two nails now and I wouldn't have thought it possible, the way he used to completely freak out over it.

If you can find the one food that Hogan can't resist and just start slow, working on it everyday, you might be able to get somewhere.


----------



## Debles

Just saw this Rob. I would NOT use ACE. We used it for Gunner for storms/fireworks. It made it worse. You have a doped dog who is still terrified. harder to deal with.

We now use melatonin and it helps. He relaxes.

I have never tried xanex but it is very physically addictive so I could not use it for storms but nails might be OK. I think valium which isn't as physically addictive would be better.


----------



## Rob's GRs

Things for me got worse for Hogan and me. As I have been still trying to work with him but when it came time to really cut his nails last week he once again freaked out. I did not yet try and of the meds I was given by the vets. Unforunately this time he bit me so bad on my left forearm. He clamped down and would not let go of my arm until I tapped on his nose with the nail clippers. I had to go to the ER as the wounds were deep and would not stop bleeding. Hogan has such a fear of nail trimming in him now that I can not handle him alone now. Since I was bitten and went to the ER the Department of Health was also notified, as that is state law here. I am now required to take Hogan to the vets after his 10 day isolation period is over. The vet then need to fill out some forms to Hogans health and vaccination history, including rabies. I have an appointment next Tuesday for all of this and while there I am having them do his nails...........


----------



## LifeOfRiley

Rob's GRs said:


> Things for me got worse for Hogan and me. As I have been still trying to work with him but when it came time to really cut his nails last week he once again freaked out. I did not yet try and of the meds I was given by the vets. Unforunately this time he bit me so bad on my left forearm. He clamped down and would not let go of my arm until I tapped on his nose with the nail clippers. I had to go to the ER as the wounds were deep and would not stop bleeding. Hogan has such a fear of nail trimming in him now that I can not handle him alone now. Since I was bitten and went to the ER the Department of Health was also notified, as that is state law here. I am now required to take Hogan to the vets after his 10 day isolation period is over. The vet then need to fill out some forms to Hogans health and vaccination history, including rabies. I have an appointment next Tuesday for all of this and while there I am having them do his nails...........


Oh man, I'm sorry to hear that, Rob. I hope your arm is healing up and feeling better.
I would let the vet handle the nail clipping from now on, too. Some may disagree, but since it's that horribly traumatizing for him, and that dangerous for you, I would think the vet is the way to go.

A woman I know has a Shiba Inu who sounds very much like Hogan. After a number of stitches, she's given up trying and now takes him to the vet for nail trims. They have to sedate him, so she only takes him when they're at a point where they absolutely _have_ to be trimmed, but it's safer for everyone involved, including the dog.

And I have to say that Hogan is very lucky to have you! So many people wouldn't be nearly as understanding, tolerant and forgiving.


----------



## RedDogs

Please contact a veterinary behaviorist for a recommendation on a professional nearest you that can help. 

I thought of you last weekend when I sat through a presentation about why vets should know and care about basic training...and this was one of the examples given... nail trims! The speaker pointed out that it could be considered malpractice the way some vets will have several staff memebers essentially sit on a dog to just clip nails...and that it requires more work/time every time the dog comes through...and the whole thing really messses up the owner-pet bond.... And with a puppy or new dog it usually only takkes about 15 minutes to teach them to love this.

A professional to help you with this would take out a lot of the stress. The professional will help teach your dog to love wearing a muzzle and from there to enjoy having his nails clipped....or at least tolerating it. 

This sort of thing makes me so sad!


----------



## AmberSunrise

Rob's GRs said:


> Things for me got worse for Hogan and me. As I have been still trying to work with him but when it came time to really cut his nails last week he once again freaked out. I did not yet try and of the meds I was given by the vets. Unforunately this time he bit me so bad on my left forearm. He clamped down and would not let go of my arm until I tapped on his nose with the nail clippers. I had to go to the ER as the wounds were deep and would not stop bleeding. Hogan has such a fear of nail trimming in him now that I can not handle him alone now. Since I was bitten and went to the ER the Department of Health was also notified, as that is state law here. I am now required to take Hogan to the vets after his 10 day isolation period is over. The vet then need to fill out some forms to Hogans health and vaccination history, including rabies. I have an appointment next Tuesday for all of this and while there I am having them do his nails...........


Oh I am so very sorry you got bit so bad .. I truly hope you heal quickly and completely and no legal stuff takes place. 

Do you have tennis courts or any other enclosed area with a surface that might grind down the nails if you let him run? 

The reason I ask is in my childhood days, our dogs ran and played on asphalt and we never needed to cut their nails. I also know people with cement kennel runs who never need to trim toenails.


----------



## Our3dogs

I was just going to suggest what Sunrise did - have him chase the ball on asphalt. Our first 2 Goldens were ball chasers and by running on the asphalt I rarely had to trim their nails. The sliding around getting the ball really does the trick, and would at least limit the number of times you would need to use the trimmers. Good luck to you and Hogan.


----------



## lgnutah

I cut Brooks' nail and caused it to bleed when he was a young puppy and I got freaked out and didn't want to do it anymore. It wasn't an issue when he was younger, as they seemed to just wear down from his walks. But I think they are getting harder as he ages and now need clipping but for whatever reason, he doesn't like his feet touched (and like Hogan, this is his only issue). He doesn't bite or snap, but pulls them back or keeps shifting his position so by the time I have one or two done, we are about 10 feet from the place we started!
A few months ago I got the Dremel, and started in tiny, baby steps to desensitize him to the process. I made some progress (in that he lets me do it, albeit grudgingly) but I don't think the Dremel takes much off (I use a med coarse wheel and only keep it on one nail to the count of one second) as I have to touch very lightly or he starts pulling his paw back.
The use of the nail clippers is much quicker, but his nails are all dark and I cannot see the quick at all.
So, I understand.


----------



## Rob's GRs

I wish I had an area around me that was asphalt and fenced in as I would gladly try to wear his nails down that way and limit the times he may need them trimmed. 

I am going to see how it goes at the vets on Tuesday and proceed from there. With the injuries on my arm it will take a while to heal as they do not stitch up dog bite wounds and they are healing so slowly. I am not sure I will ever feel comfortable trying to do his nails again. Liam on the other hand is so easy to do. My two dogs are like night and day when it comes to nail trimming.


----------



## coppers-mom

I am so sorry it got this bad.

If you do decide to try trimming Hogan's nails, I recommend you give him Ace and see how dopey it makes him and if it would make it possible to trim him. Better a doped up dog than a bit up owner. Copper used to take Ace for thunderstorms and it worked pretty well, but he had to have 25mgs. My friend's black lab slept for 12 hours when he took 10mgs. If you really don't want to use Ace, consider valium. I used that with my last golden for his seizures just to calm him down.

It works best if you go..
One for you and one for me............


----------



## ilovemydogs

I am sorry to hear about your problems with Hogan. My Bailey sounds very much like him. She bit me quite a few times while I was cutting her nails. Luckily she is a gentle biter and she never broke the skin just bruised me a few times. I started taking her to a groomer and warned them so she wore a muzzle the first time. She didn't react at all at the groomer. So now all of her nail trimming is done there and she doesn't even have to wear a muzzle anymore.


----------



## GoldenSail

I am so sorry to hear about your bite. It is very tough. I wonder if you could buy a good old fashion nail file and file manually? Just a little every day might help--would be like the dremel only more work (or less, depending on how you view it).


----------



## coppers-mom

GoldenSail said:


> I am so sorry to hear about your bite. It is very tough. I wonder if you could buy a good old fashion nail file and file manually? Just a little every day might help--would be like the dremel only more work (or less, depending on how you view it).


if you go this route, get a great big TOE NAIL file. the little bitty fingernail ones don't work.


----------



## katieanddusty

RedDogs said:


> I thought of you last weekend when I sat through a presentation about why vets should know and care about basic training...and this was one of the examples given... nail trims! The speaker pointed out that it could be considered malpractice the way some vets will have several staff memebers essentially sit on a dog to just clip nails...and that it requires more work/time every time the dog comes through...and the whole thing really messses up the owner-pet bond....


I completely agree that desensitizing the dog is a better choice than just bringing him in to the vet. Obviously everyone on here is a responsible owner who knows the importance of training and wants to do what's best for their dogs. So if the vet gives them some resources about desensitizing the dog for nail trims, they'll listen and work on it. But in my experience as one of those staff members, the most problematic dogs' owners were people who don't care, aren't going to put in the effort, and don't have much of an owner-pet bond in the first place. What is the vet supposed to do in those cases?


----------



## LifeOfRiley

Rob's GRs said:


> I wish I had an area around me that was asphalt and fenced in as I would gladly try to wear his nails down that way and limit the times he may need them trimmed.
> 
> I am going to see how it goes at the vets on Tuesday and proceed from there. With the injuries on my arm it will take a while to heal as they do not stitch up dog bite wounds and they are healing so slowly. I am not sure I will ever feel comfortable trying to do his nails again. Liam on the other hand is so easy to do. My two dogs are like night and day when it comes to nail trimming.


How did it go at the vet's, Rob? I was thinking about you guys the other day when I had Riley at the vet.
Our trip didn't go so well. I have to keep trying it myself, one nail at a time, and if they get too bad in the meantime, we'll have to sedate him to have the vet do them. Yikes.


----------



## Rob's GRs

The vet techs were able to do a better, and quicker, job with him than I could do just by myself. Hogan still did not like it but it was all over in just a few minutes. He was not sedated or knocked out as they felt Hogan could be managed by their techs. I was with him as they did his nails as they felt it would be best with me in the room with Hogan. I had to go back on antibiotics this week for my arm so any ideas of trying him again myself is not going to happen. I have another appointment in 4 weeks with the vet techs to give it another shot with Hogan.


----------



## inge

I'm glad it went well...my pup is only 6 months, but I'm also having major nail clipping problems with her, so I followed this thread really well...


----------



## LifeOfRiley

Rob's GRs said:


> The vet techs were able to do a better, and quicker, job with him than I could do just by myself. Hogan still did not like it but it was all over in just a few minutes. He was not sedated or knocked out as they felt Hogan could be managed by their techs. I was with him as they did his nails as they felt it would be best with me in the room with Hogan. I had to go back on antibiotics this week for my arm so any ideas of trying him again myself is not going to happen. I have another appointment in 4 weeks with the vet techs to give it another shot with Hogan.


That's great! I'm glad to hear they were able to do it. Sounds like that's the way to go with him from now on.
I was hoping they'd be able to get Riley's trimmed real good and then I'd just try to keep up with them, doing one at a time, but it wasn't happening. The minute he felt those clippers on his nail, he started thrashing around and peed all over himself. The vet felt that he's just too afraid and if we pushed the issue, it would only make matters worse.
I don't want to think about how badly he must have been scared, or hurt, at our previous vet's to make him this petrified of it. (I get bad ideas if I think about it.)

Take care of that arm!


----------



## FlyingQuizini

RedDogs said:


> Please contact a veterinary behaviorist for a recommendation on a professional nearest you that can help.
> 
> I thought of you last weekend when I sat through a presentation about why vets should know and care about basic training...and this was one of the examples given... nail trims! The speaker pointed out that it could be considered malpractice the way some vets will have several staff memebers essentially sit on a dog to just clip nails...and that it requires more work/time every time the dog comes through...and the whole thing really messses up the owner-pet bond.... And with a puppy or new dog it usually only takkes about 15 minutes to teach them to love this.
> 
> A professional to help you with this would take out a lot of the stress. The professional will help teach your dog to love wearing a muzzle and from there to enjoy having his nails clipped....or at least tolerating it.
> 
> This sort of thing makes me so sad!


Who was the speaker? BTW - have you seen the Sophin Yin book on low stress handling during vet visits? She's a vet and it was written for vets and techs and comes with a DVD. It's awesome!

(Whoops! Sorry to temporarily hijack!)


----------



## inge

LifeOfRiley said:


> Don't know if this will help you Rob, but we just found the magic bullet for Riley and I wanted to pass it along.
> 
> Like I said before, we'd been working on it for about a year and were getting absolutely nowhere. Nothing we tried worked. There wasn't a treat or any kind of food that he wouldn't turn away from the second I got near a nail.
> Then we found it. The one 'treat' that he loses his ever-loving mind over and simply cannot resist: Ben & Jerry's Chunky Monkey ice cream. (Chocolate pieces removed, of course.)
> 
> It takes two people. Mom holds the container and lets him lick away to his heart's content while I clip. He did turn around and nail me once, but he decided that the ice cream was more important than biting me. I've been able to clip two nails now and I wouldn't have thought it possible, the way he used to completely freak out over it.
> 
> If you can find the one food that Hogan can't resist and just start slow, working on it everyday, you might be able to get somewhere.


I tried the ice cream tric with Tess today, and it worked! I was able to clip 5 nails, and then I let her finish the (low fat frozen yoghurt) vanilla ice...She still wasn't happy, but the ice was more important. The good thing was, that she was calm...so this is the first time I was able to clip a calm dog, so no mistakes on my part, either! I'm going to try the next foot tomorrow. If this is the tric, then we will have "Tess Nails" ice cream in the freezer!


----------



## LifeOfRiley

inge said:


> I tried the ice cream tric with Tess today, and it worked! I was able to clip 5 nails, and then I let her finish the (low fat frozen yoghurt) vanilla ice...She still wasn't happy, but the ice was more important. The good thing was, that she was calm...so this is the first time I was able to clip a calm dog, so no mistakes on my part, either! I'm going to try the next foot tomorrow. If this is the tric, then we will have "Tess Nails" ice cream in the freezer!


Great! I'm glad to hear that it's working for someone else, too! 

That's a good idea about the frozen yogurt -- I think maybe we'll try switching to that. I have noticed that if Riley gets a little _too_ much ice cream, it gives him a problem. He doesn't really need all the extra fat and calories, either, so that's a good idea.

We backed up a step, after his vet visit. Her trying to do them really freaked him out again, so we're backing up to just handling his nails again, for a week or so, then I'll go back to snipping one at a time so he doesn't get overwhelmed. If the ice cream stops working, we're doomed! lol.

It works well for getting mats behind the ears, too. I could always do it, but he would get a little growly and try to pull away. He just stands there, now, enjoying his ice cream and couldn't care less that I'm working on a mat.


----------



## Rob's GRs

LifeOfRiley said:


> Great! I'm glad to hear that it's working for someone else, too!
> 
> That's a good idea about the frozen yogurt -- I think maybe we'll try switching to that. I have noticed that if Riley gets a little _too_ much ice cream, it gives him a problem. He doesn't really need all the extra fat and calories, either, so that's a good idea.
> 
> We backed up a step, after his vet visit. Her trying to do them really freaked him out again, so we're backing up to just handling his nails again, for a week or so, then I'll go back to snipping one at a time so he doesn't get overwhelmed. If the ice cream stops working, we're doomed! lol.
> 
> It works well for getting mats behind the ears, too. I could always do it, but he would get a little growly and try to pull away. He just stands there, now, enjoying his ice cream and couldn't care less that I'm working on a mat.


Good luck with Riley. Unfortunately I think you have it worse with Riley than I do with Hogan. I only have ever had issues with Hogan just with nails. I can clip fur anywhere on him, even on his paws and we are fine. I really do wish you all the best with working with Riley on his issues.


----------



## Ranger

This might be a stupid question, but does anyone know why some dogs resent having their nails done so much? I'm not asking specifically - I know a few individual dogs who don't like having their nails done because of being quicked or bad experience or whatever. Is there a reason in general that dogs wouldn't want their nails done? Like how dogs don't like being hugged because it's seen as a threat or grabbed by their collar? Is there a general reason or is all just specific cases?


----------



## Rob's GRs

I wish I knew the answer to your question..... I have one Golden (Liam) who is as great as can be when doing his nails and one (Hogan) that is as worse as they come when doing his nails. And with Hogan I have never cut his quick or made him bleed. I have made Liam bleed numerous times and yet he is still great about the whole thing........:gotme::scratchch


----------



## LifeOfRiley

Rob's GRs said:


> Good luck with Riley. Unfortunately I think you have it worse with Riley than I do with Hogan. I only have ever had issues with Hogan just with nails. I can clip fur anywhere on him, even on his paws and we are fine. I really do wish you all the best with working with Riley on his issues.


Thanks, Rob. Yeah, Riley does have a bit of an attitude. (We don't call him our little Prince of Darkness for nothing!)
I've gotten to a point where I can do just about anything else. He may not _like_ it, but he'll let me get it done. The nails have been our biggest battle. I think we can overcome it, but it's going to take a lot longer than I expected.


----------

