# Paint Rollers



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Is there any concern that the fibers could be abrasive on their teeth?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

we didn't use them, he was already over 3 when we started this journey.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I know it's dangerous to post in these threads if you aren't a hunt person... 

But my guy was 5 months old when our obedience instructor recommended using a paint roller to help teach "hold" (just hold, no ear pinching). So it's not just a hunt thing.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Yup, use them from the time they are babies--I like the little 4" ones for young pups--not the foam ones though as those sharp little teeth just rip them up. Highly visible, and they seem to find them appealing and want to pick them up.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Used them with my youngest one. Started it around 10 weeks.


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

I think the photo is very funny. And maybe off the subject but the dad of one of the kids in my high school invented them--not that tells you how old I am.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

Ian'sgran said:


> I think the photo is very funny. And maybe off the subject but the dad of one of the kids in my high school invented them--not that tells you how old I am.


You may have just made my entire (65th) year!:wavey:

EvanG


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Cute pic! I used them with Slater, it was a nice toy for a pup in that under-four-months age range.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

I first learned about using paint rollers from an old school trainer. He was "Old school" when I was starting out in the mid 1970's. He used them only for puppies.

Over time I learned from first one Hall of Fame trainer (D.L. Walters), and then another (Rex Carr), who opened my mind to a whole new world of broader thinking about performance dogs and the training he developed that revolutionized the sport. Part of that growth was opening up to more innovation.

As a pro I was brought a wide variety of breeds and colors of retrievers, and an even broader array of personalities to adapt the training to. With the seeds of deeper thought planted by Rex, I began an endless journey to find more and more simple and easy-to-understand ways to teach more dogs to succeed. At that time the washout rate - especially among field trial dogs - was immense. It's still higher than many care to discuss. I didn't care as much that they all made successful trial dogs. but I did want more to have a good useful fun life in the field, doing what they were born to do.

As part of that effort, I began to expand the use of paint rollers in force fetch; first for "Hold" through Walking Hold. Then through the fetch process; step by step as they fetched toward the ground. At the point where we made that transition where so many hit a typical little speed bump, I determined to make the transition to bumpers at that point. It was so logical because of the process I developed to keep it from being so perplexing for the dogs. Using the rope on the bumper was part of that step by step information flow.

Many young pups that showed a tendency to mishandle plastic bumpers early on have consistently shown better mouth work on rollers. Added to that how much better most dogs do in FF with them, they've earned a permanent place in my method.

EvanG


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## luvgld7 (Jan 23, 2008)

I've used them, different sizes, from 8 weeks to 4 mos. I used this expanding foam caulking stuff to spray in the inside of the roller. Nothing that comes on the outside of the roller. But when it dries, it gives the roller more "heft" and is easier to throw when the pup is bigger.


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## Tamarackgoldens (Mar 10, 2010)

I used them when my dog way young 3-4 months, but sounds like you use them for a longer period if you use them through force fetch. Is your transition to bumpers part of the force then?


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Tamarackgoldens said:


> I used them when my dog way young 3-4 months, but sounds like you use them for a longer period if you use them through force fetch. Is your transition to bumpers part of the force then?


Great question, that's kind of what I was wondering.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

Tamarackgoldens said:


> I used them when my dog way young 3-4 months, but sounds like you use them for a longer period if you use them through force fetch. *Is your transition to bumpers part of the force then?*


And the answrer is yes. I make the transition to bumpers in a logical point of FF when preparing to begin walking fetch. Fetching to the ground presents a speedbump in the process that is almost universal. You take your hand off the fetch object, and the dog suddenly says "fetch what?" Using bumpers at that point provides the throw cord to use to fetch downward in successive small steps until finally he can fetch to the ground without you touching the bumper.

Having gone to the ground fetching, you're ready to introduce forward movement. That leads, logically, to pile work.

EvanG


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

I did not use paint rollers as I also started my dog a little later ~1 year old. When I get my next one I will probably will give it a try when s/he is young.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

GoldenSail said:


> I did not use paint rollers as I also started my dog a little later ~1 year old. When I get my next one I will probably will give it a try when s/he is young.


Great! Don't forget to use one during force fetch also. I think you'll find it very helpful for most dogs.

EvanG


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I tried to start Gabby on paint rollers. I had a small one for when she was a young pup, and a regular sized one for later. She would not have ANYTHING to do with them. I actually thought she wouldn't retrieve. I was freaking out and calling the person who was helping us at the time. I wanted a dog I could do field work with. However as soon as we introduced a bumper to her, the rest was history. She just didn't like the paint rollers.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

How old is she?

EvanG


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Gabby is now 14 months, past her FF, CC and has her Started title and two JH legs, starting transition work. But at the beginning last year when I got her, I was really not sure she would retrieve. 

I think she was about 4 months, and we got out our small bumpers for some reason. She grabbed one and took off. I got it back tossed it down the hall and she RAN after it and brought it back. The rest is history. I was worried. She STILL won't do a paint roller unless I force her on it. She does not like them.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

Maxs Mom said:


> She STILL won't do a paint roller unless I force her on it. She does not like them.


Then she isn't fully forced. I'll be happy to elaborate. Not only should she fetch what she's commanded to fetch, but she should fetch them eagerly and happily. Lacking that tells you something is missing from the process.

EvanG


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Ann's been working with a good pro in Michigan--I have seen him train, and judged a lot of dogs he has trained personally or mentored the owners. I agree that the refusal to fetch on command demonstrates the process is not complete and proofed, but, with all respect, would suggest that she raise the question with *him* on Gabby's next training session, since he has been observing the dog's progress.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

That would be a capital idea!

EvanG


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I did not use paint rollers on my current golden. I did play retrieves a few times with her with paint rollers but that was it. I tried a slightly different force fetch method with my girl. When I try out something new, I follow the program precisely as described before I modify so since paint rollers were not part of the program, I didn't use them. Perhaps with my next dog I will use paintrollers as part of the program that Evan describes.


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## Angelina (Aug 11, 2011)

May I ask what is forced fetch?


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

It is a method of teaching a conditioned retrieve. Fetch then becomes a command that the dog will execute whenever the command is given.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

gdgli said:


> It is a method of teaching a conditioned retrieve. Fetch then becomes a command that the dog will execute whenever the command is given.


That's a very good concise answer. I refer to the finished product as "The fully-trained retrieve". The fundamental elements of obedience are combined with the elements of fetch, recall, and delivery on command are assembled together to form a reliable, standardized act. Further, it is a very valuable course in pressure conditioning, which is a highly valuable asset in stabilizing all retriever work, even when the dog is distracted or moody.





 
EvanG


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

EvanG said:


> That's a very good concise answer. I refer to the finished product as "The fully-trained retrieve". The fundamental elements of obedience are combined with the elements of fetch, recall, and delivery on command are assembled together to form a reliable, standardized act. Further, it is a very valuable course in pressure conditioning, which is a highly valuable asset in stabilizing all retriever work, even when the dog is distracted or moody.
> 
> Trained influences on retrievers project - YouTube
> 
> EvanG


I am surprised at the number of people who do not include all of the behaviors that you describe as part of the fully trained retrieve.


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## Discoverer (Feb 3, 2011)

I use the paint rollers for retrieving since Oscar was 10 weeks old, but I do not use neither them or bumpers for the force fetch. Our trainer recommended to use the round sticks with a duct tape in a middle to initial train of the Hold and Fetch and eventually move to bumpers.


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