# dominant puppy



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I think this is really difficult to help online, because well... 

To me it sounds like you have a high energy young golden with a high play drive who hasn't been trained how to play properly with people. He might think that the shaking and growling is all play, even though it scares and hurts you and your kids. So possibly the more you react and stick arms and legs out, the more it feels like a game to him. 

If you watch a pair of dogs playfighting, it can look and sound like a real fight... that is how they play.

My guy was borderline nuts when he was a puppy (and he is a submissive needy type golden). I was the one wearing long pants and long sleeves in summer because I had bruises all over my legs and arms. 

I would get your dog into dog classes so he has some purpose/object for all of that energy. And you want to go with a trainer who can teach you how to control him and settle him down when he starts to go over the line. 

I meant to say though - the mouthiness and the jumping, grabbing legs and arms, grabbing clothes... those tendancies were still there with my guy until he settled down (when he was about 2.5, although he still mouths my legs when he gets hyped up). I had a settle command so I didn't have to deal with too much from him, but I can see how easy it would have been for him to get out of control.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Have any of the trainers "come over" to your house and observed the behavior? Sounds like you are doing all the right things, getting help just wonder if his behavior in normal surroundings has been observed. 

I agree that forum boards are a hard place for that type of question. 

Good luck, you are good owner trying your best.


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## norah (Jan 25, 2011)

Thank you. What I neglected to say is this behavior began at 10 months of age. He didn't do it before. We have been through numerous training classes with the kids (He aces them all) and two private lessons. He plays nicely with the kids in the house and also attends doggy daycare now and again. Yes, he is a nutsy, high energy puppy. I'm just looking for pointers and tips from people who went through the same thing. Ex. I can throw the tennis ball 10 times for a calm and sane fetch and on the 11th throw he will lunge and bite. Ignoring and/or correction gets him angry and makes it worse. Two trainers and a specialist, reccomended by my vet, are bringing up the dreaded e-collar. I'm just trying to exhaust all possible avenues before we go that route. He is still a puppy.
PS-He loves the taste of the bitter spray and loves water squirted in his face.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Some high energy dogs struggle when adrenalized as happens in play or other exciting situations.

When you retrieve, put obedience between every few throws to keep him closer to his thinking brain and not just getting more and more and more excited by play.

Retrieve > Sit > Retrieve > Sit, Down, Shake, Sit > Retrieve > Sit > 5 second Sit Stay > Retrieve, etc.

When people come in, try playing "feed the chickens". Have a tin of kibble nearby and as they enter, start tossing kibble on the floor, 5-6 pieces at a time, readying your next toss for as soon as he eats the last piece from the first toss. This does two things - puts his attention on the floor rather than up in jumping mode and for a dog, nose-to-ground can be somewhat calming. Continue this all the way as the people come in, take off their coats, sit down, etc. THEN try asking for the simplest obedience move he has... like sit and go from there.

Practice basic obedience often. Sit, response to his name and a casual recall should be practiced so much, and under so many different circumstances, that the behaviors are resistant to distraction.

In the spring, you always have the option of using management to prevent some of the things you don't like. For instance, if you'll have a houseful of screaming, running kids for an hour, he can hole up in his crate in a quiet room and enjoy a great chew bone.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

First of all, dominant dogs don't lunge and bite. A truly dominant dog is confident and doesn't have to prove it is in charge.

If it were my dog and I wanted to play fetch with it, I would decide when to start and end the sessions. If I knew that the more I played with the dog, the play would escalate into lunging, then I would change how I play with the dog. So if it takes 10 throws for the bad behavior, I would throw the ball 5 times and end the game.

My first golden who was extremely calm would get hyper if my kids started to run. When my kids were young and we added on new pups, I would tell my kids, "If you run the dog will bite you." That got them to rethink their body language and behavior around the puppies. 

Is he neutered?

I have a friend who is a dog trainer who had to use an electronic collar to fix a client's golden from attacking her when she came into the house. In the right hands, it can work. But you have to careful, because another client of mine using an electronic collar on her own for counter surfing, caused the dog to have displaced(redirected) aggression towards her roommates.


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

This is almost certainly a job for a Vet Behaviourist. It is very much in your best interests to contact one. I am a very much, do it yourself type of person, but from what you're saying he's going from play to fight in the snap of your fingers. That is NOT normal and is borderline neurotic.

I have seen a dog like that at the park I am at. He goes from playing with a dog to posturing inexplicably and snapping without warning. I can generally get a good read on a dog at the park from body language but he mystifies me with his change in demeanor when the other dogs are constant and steady in their personality. It is truly like he overloads on stimuli and doesn't know how to respond. I wouldn't even know where to start in fixing that... and I've worked with a lot of dogs.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I have experienced that with our Penny. If the play continues and the intensity increases, her excitement level rises and then she looses sight of the boundaries. And she can go from zero to 10 just by opening her eyes!

The only thing that stopped this behavior..and it has stopped...is to control the situation that is getting her excited. That way she never gets over excited. She and I like to wrestle and play bite. But only for a little while because she likes it too much. I'll get up from the floor and sit for a bit. Then when she is calm, usually laying quietly, I'll get back on the floor and invite her to play. I make sure I am always in control either by starting the play or ending the play. It's never completely on her terms.

If I were you, I would monitor the play with the kids closely and watch for the escalation of excitement. He can play as long as it's 'nice' play. Either have the kids stop the running and playing, or put him on a leash while they play. If the game of fetch is just THAT exciting, then maybe hold off on the game for a few months until Russell matures more.

It is definitely controllable with supervision.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

Management would be the best option. Chasing the kids is going to be a natural thing, so don't put him in that situation - if the kids are going to run and roughouse then he can be elsewhere. That's not what I'd consider 'safe' play for any dog. If the kids want to play fetch and aren't running around, that's fine. If they want to play hide and seek, give them each a cookie, have the dog in the house while they hide, and when he finds them, they give him the cookie. 

The kids around here sometimes are good, but sometimes at the park when I go to toss the ball for the dogs, they'll try to tackle the dogs as they run by - then I just take them inside before anything happens. Not worth the risk!


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## norah (Jan 25, 2011)

Thank you all so much. He is neutered and we will be seeing a professional (again) in Feb. Seeing it is a new behavior, I hope I have a better chance of nipping it in the bud (no pun intended). Your suggestions are great places to start. 

Maxs mom, let me know if you got my message. I'm new at this and don't know if I responded correctly.


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

Bender said:


> Management would be the best option. Chasing the kids is going to be a natural thing, so don't put him in that situation - if the kids are going to run and roughouse then he can be elsewhere. That's not what I'd consider 'safe' play for any dog. If the kids want to play fetch and aren't running around, that's fine. If they want to play hide and seek, give them each a cookie, have the dog in the house while they hide, and when he finds them, they give him the cookie.
> 
> The kids around here sometimes are good, but sometimes at the park when I go to toss the ball for the dogs, they'll try to tackle the dogs as they run by - then I just take them inside before anything happens. Not worth the risk!


This is what I do. My 5 y.o. granddaughter lives here, when she has friends over, little girls can get running and screaming at times which gets Hank wound-up. I usually gate him in the laundry room. He'd be more apt to knock them down than bite though.


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## 4+dog (Feb 11, 2011)

I'm so glad I found your post! I have the same problem, our dog has always been like this however, he's now almost a year old. Very frustrating for all involved, cause sometimes it just takes the kids walking by him several times for him to start nipping at the feet. I have yet to find what sets off this behavior, cause he could have just been out playing for 45 minutes and he's still going to do it, or it goes from a nice petting session to biting the hand that pets him! If you find any help in a behavior specialist I hope you'll share some pointers with me. The only thing he really hates is being sprayed with water , but we can hardly all wear water guns to be prepared for a bite here or there


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## Cody_boy (Mar 6, 2011)

Russel is not "dominant" towards people (although he may be dominant with other dogs). All dogs can tell people from other dogs, and they instinctively know that the people are in charge (you feed him, care for him, walk him, train him...). Russel is getting very excited and wrapped up in his play, and often forgets the boundaries. "Kneeing" him, or using any kind of physical touch (spraying included) is going to excite him more. Here is what you have to do:

As soon as Russel reacts aggressively to play, completely stop ALL attention given to him until he calms down, in which case you can continue slowly build the play back up. Eventually, Russel will realize that he has to stay calm if he wants to continue playing. Also, keep in mind that you have to SLOWLY build up the length and intensity of play times in order for Russel to maintain self control.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Does your puppy have the opportunity to play with other dogs? It sounds to me like he is just playing and needs to play with someone with whom such playing is allowed. With my Goldens I have always allowed roughhousing with humans and have found that the dogs choose only to play it with their primary human adults. My Dexy always did the growling/head shake with my sleeve in his mouth. It was never aggression just play that demonstrated our mutual trust. I agree however that it can't go on if your pup will chase and nip children, especially other peoples' children.

I would look for a playmate for your pup and give him some puppy playtime several times a week. Or you can train him to play tug and when he feels the need to growl and shake his head he can do it with a tug toy in an appropriate manner with an appropriate person.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

You've gotten great advice so far, but I just wanted to second those folks who told you that this puppy probably isn't "dominant." It sounds like he gets overexcited when playing, which is a very different problem. If it were my dog, I'd immediately cease all running and playing games where he chases or is chased by kids in any way. Every time he goes through the undesired emotional transition (from fun to too excited) he's more likely to do it the next time. The earlier you prevent him from making these transitions ever again, the easier your job will be.

Steph's (Quizini) advice is amazing. It'll let you play fetch while teaching him a different way of behaving. I would stop the kids from playing fetch, though. The timing and pattern of what you're doing is too easy to screw up. Eventually, he can go back to playing fetch with kids and running around, but as long as it's resulting in the undesired behavior, you have to put those games on hold.

Avoid harsh "corrections." They may seem intuitive (punishing a bratty dog makes logical sense), but they'll actually backfire, as you're already seeing. A headstrong teenage pup is likely to be energized by loud voices or physical punishment, and that's the opposite of what you want.

One other thing: 10 months is a classic age for a young dog to challenge boundaries and act like a mouthy brat. Go back to training basics, take a class, and be utterly consistent in your expectations. Training may be frustrating and slow, but training a dog consistently through the bratty adolescent months can help set the stage for a lifetime of good behavior.


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