# Why field work is the best place to start your puppy, no matter your goals!



## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

The following is my personal opinion but figured it might be helpful for that new person that doesn't know where to start! I've competed in at least the novice levels in the following sports - conformation, obedience, agility, and field. I want to talk about how I think field work has made my entrance into the other sports that much easier. 

Benefits of Field work:

Confidence - for the dog and handler
Muscle Tone - A dog that does field work stands out in the ring
Body awareness - handling in the upper levels is incredibly detailed, that awareness of your body on line (and in blinds) only makes you a better handler in other sports
Impulse control - a dog being able to handle a walkup in a hunt test or a beautiful blind retrieve means a solid start line stay in a crazy environment like an agility trial is easy
Obedience - goes along with impulse control but a lot of what is needed in upper level field work is directly transferrable to the obedience ring.
Giving your dog time to mature while doing field work is not going to delay your goals in other sports, it will just make them easier and honestly more fun. I'm not saying to wait to train the other sports, in fact I think doing obedience and agility foundations are also good for field dogs. But if you are like me and don't like to focus on too many things at once, then definitely consider making field your first priority in your dog sport journey. If you ever want to put a field title on your dog, its easiest and makes the most sense to begin with that! 

Any other benefits of field work that I missed?


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

myluckypenny said:


> Any other benefits of field work that I missed?


It is what retrievers were born to do and vastly more rewarding to them than anything else.


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

SRW said:


> It is what retrievers were born to do and vastly more rewarding to them than anything else.


And there is nothing better than watching a retriever do its job well!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

never mind.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Megora said:


> So I do not normally read field posts at all


Yes you do


Megora said:


> and do not feel welcome to read or post on this section of the forum


Yes you do and you are and you should post (questions).


Megora said:


> But read out of curiosity because of your thread title


Also because I posted on the thread and everyone knows you are hopelessly infatuated.


Megora said:


> Can you explain how field could build up a dog for obedience?


Obedience comes first but it is also reinforced with field training. Huge rewards for obedience and obedience at great distances from the handler are two big reasons.


Megora said:


> Feedback as to why I dabbled in field a few years ago - I wanted my dogs to have an outlet which permitted them to be as birdy and fieldy as they want.


Glad you did, hope you get back to it.


Megora said:


> since my dogs did not require the long line which most beginners (meaning the dogs) would need while starting in field


Aside from begining in the yard with an 8-12 week old puppy, I have never used one, and don't know anyone that does.


Megora said:


> Obedience is the foundation for everything.


True in field work as well


Megora said:


> I grew frustrated with playing in field with a pup who did not have that foundation in obedience, because he wanted to eat the birds vs bringing them back to me.


A long line on your pup and preparation in the yard could have prevented that.


Megora said:


> I knew the goal of hunting with a dog is to have a helper who goes into the water or bushes or deep grass to locate and fetch the birds without injuring the bird or feathers.


When my dogs retrieve a bird it is after it has been shot and I don't care about the feathers.


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

Megora said:


> Can you explain how field could build up a dog for obedience? Or assist somebody's entrance into obedience? (meaning obedience as a dog sport vs just day to day training).


Valid question and I can only speak from my experience as someone who just entered the ring for her CD last weekend (but went 3/3 and had high scores). But this is what I observed - my dog had way less ring stress that others. Now he is a very confident dog but I do believe that field work helps that. You train in many different locations and no two setups are the same. This builds a flexible dog that trusts you. Now I'm going to get ready for open and when reviewing the exercises he's already almost there due to his field work foundations (retrieve and no-no drills). I do agree that obedience is the foundation for everything, but I've seen a lot of people that almost take the joy out if because they try to make it perfect too soon. Whereas if you are practicing obedience for field work there's a huge motivational piece for them (the bird). 

I think your problem of not enjoying field work because of obedience issues is more so due to lack of experience. A lot of field work is managing your dog's training. I've introduced a lot of dogs to birds and rarely do I see mouth issues. That's because they get introduced to birds on a long line, throw the bird, dog runs out, as soon as it's standing over the bird you are whooping and hollering telling that puppy he's doing the best job ever, that usually makes them excited, they put the bird in their mouth and now you starting backing up calling them the entire way. When they get to you, you don't try to take the bird right away, you just pet them and let them do that typical wiggle of excitement. Then as nonchalantly as possible, you grab the top of their mouth, which makes them drop the bird. No trying to play tug of war and the long line is there in case they don't recall immediately. A couple of times doing that where they show a good amount of desire, any sign of wanting to eat the birds means you switch to bumpers until they are old enough for force fetch. In the meantime, off the field, you can absolutely be working on a shaped hold for obedience. You just don't let those bad habits get a foothold. 

Obedience and field absolutely go hand in hand, but I think you see a bigger benefit by trialing/testing in field before worrying about entering the obedience ring.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

myluckypenny said:


> consider making field your first priority in your dog sport journey


Be aware that after field training and events may cause you to lose interest in other dog sports.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

never mind


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

never mind


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

SRW said:


> Be aware that after field training and events may cause you to lose interest in other dog sports.


You're not wrong! But I do enjoy having something to train in the off season, keeps them sharp! This year I wasn't able to travel for trials because I've had my young dog with a field trial pro for ten months and there was no room in the budget for traveling to quals with my 3 year old like I had originally planned. So instead, I did a little prep work and made sure we were ready for the local agility and obedience trial. My year off from field yielded five new titles and then next year I'll have two dogs ready for quals which is more economical anyway (we won't discuss the price of that training bill ).


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

myluckypenny said:


> we won't discuss the price of that training bill


Never had one but I know it is not cheap.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Do y'all think it makes a difference in a puppy if they are introduced to birds super early (like 6 weeks) or if it happens later, at 8-12 weeks? Or even later than that? I guess my main question is, is it worth it for the breeder to introduce the puppies to birds before they go home?


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Megora said:


> No, conformation apparently does that.


Conformation causes me to lose interest in staying awake.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

ArkansasGold said:


> I guess my main question is, is it worth it for the breeder to introduce the puppies to birds before they go home?


IMO yes and most field breeders do. You have never seen a puppy as happy as a 6 week old retriever chasing a pigeon.
I don't know that anyone could conclusively prove it makes much difference if they are not introduced until a few weeks later.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

never mind


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

ArkansasGold said:


> Do y'all think it makes a difference in a puppy if they are introduced to birds super early (like 6 weeks) or if it happens later, at 8-12 weeks? Or even later than that? I guess my main question is, is it worth it for the breeder to introduce the puppies to birds before they go home?


I think it helps, but I don't think its a big deal at all if they aren't introduced until after 8 weeks. Personally I'd rather have a breeder make the effort to introduce pups to water over birds.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

SRW said:


> IMO yes and most field breeders do. You have never seen a puppy as happy as a 6 week old retriever chasing a pigeon.
> I don't know that anyone could conclusively prove it makes much difference if they are not introduced until a few weeks later.





myluckypenny said:


> I think it helps, but I don't think its a big deal at all if they aren't introduced until after 8 weeks. Personally I'd rather have a breeder make the effort to introduce pups to water over birds.


Thank you, Stan and Jamie! 

My field goals will probably never be quite what y'all's are, but one of my goals as a future breeder is to consistently produce VC/VCX dogs and I was curious about your thoughts. 

Good to know about water, Jamie! I have wondered about that too.


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

ArkansasGold said:


> Thank you, Stan and Jamie!
> 
> My field goals will probably never be quite what y'all's are, but one of my goals as a future breeder is to consistently produce VC/VCX dogs and I was curious about your thoughts.
> 
> Good to know about water, Jamie! I have wondered about that too.


For the water piece, I think it's a really good way to evaluate a puppy's natural confidence. So if you are evaluating two puppies that seem pretty similar, but one takes to water like a fish and the other doesn't, I think that provides really helpful information for puppy placement.


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## JerseyChris (10 mo ago)

ArkansasGold said:


> Do y'all think it makes a difference in a puppy if they are introduced to birds super early (like 6 weeks) or if it happens later, at 8-12 weeks? Or even later than that? I guess my main question is, is it worth it for the breeder to introduce the puppies to birds before they go home?


This is something I know very little to nothing about but I am very interested in hunt/field work. Here is a pic of my pup at 7 weeks with his litter mates chasing each other around with a bird.


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## JerseyChris (10 mo ago)

SRW said:


> Conformation causes me to lose interest in staying awake.


I would pay good money to dress you up in a suit and watch you prance around the ring 😝


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

JerseyChris said:


> I would pay good money to dress you up in a suit and watch you prance around the ring 😝


You could not afford it.


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## JerseyChris (10 mo ago)

SRW said:


> You could not afford it.


Keep it up, I will make a thread with a go fund me link. 😝


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

JerseyChris said:


> Keep it up, I will make a thread with a go fund me link. 😝


Violation rule #7 - we will have to send personal checks.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

JerseyChris said:


> Keep it up, I will make a thread with a go fund me link. 😝


Same thing I tell people that offer to buy my dog. You don't have enough money and I know it because there isn't enough of it.


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## Hildae (Aug 15, 2012)

Eating or chewing the bird is bad, bad news. It's something you want to actively work to prevent from ever happening. Long lines can be used when they are little, but older dogs usually wear an e collar and both can be used to train a solid retrieve. Not everyone uses hold conditioning, but I think it's helpful too.
One of saddest things I've seen at a test was a guy with a yellow lab. His dog did well all day, then on the very last retrieve of the test (water series, this guy's last pass needed to title) the dog brought it back and dropped it a foot away from the owner. The owner ordered the dog to fetch it up, and he did, but turned away, dropped the bird, stood on it and began ripping it apart. Of course you know what that means, the judges close their books and say the dreaded "leash your dog." 😫


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

nolefan said:


> Violation rule #7 - we will have to send personal checks.


Didn't read it but I'm sure it is more of a guidline than a rule. If anyone wants to send me money I'll let everyone know when I have enough to enter the conformation ring.


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## GrandmaToGoldens (Jul 2, 2019)

Megora said:


> Both my guys do have rock solid retrieves now... in fact one problem that I have w retrieves with that same 4 year old is since I've bumped up the focus on utility exercises since I believe that's where we're headed in the next 6 months, have discovered that my dog has the "grab and return" discipline so drilled into his poor little head that I'm literally taking articles back to square one to really *get him to understand that the exercise is primarily "finding" vs "retrieving.*


A method I use for this is to toss an article into long grass and send the dog to find it. I show the article to the dog and place my left hand over the dog’s eyes so it hears the article land but can’t see.
If there’s a patch of long grass where you can leave unscented articles to become background, that’s a useful step in teaching scent discrimination.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

SRW said:


> Didn't read it but I'm sure it is more of a guidline than a rule. If anyone wants to send me money I'll let everyone know when I have enough to enter the conformation ring.


Ok Jack Sparrow


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## GrandmaToGoldens (Jul 2, 2019)

myluckypenny said:


> Benefits of Field work:
> 
> Confidence - for the dog and handler
> Muscle Tone - A dog that does field work stands out in the ring
> ...


Yes, but be aware of possible conflicts in training. For example, excessive or punitive pile drills could make scent discrimination training difficult.


myluckypenny said:


> Any other benefits of field work that I missed?


Enthusiasm and joy in working cooperatively with the handler.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

ArkansasGold said:


> Ok Jack Sparrow


Had to google it. Did not see the movie so I don't get it.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

whatver


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

SRW said:


> Had to google it. Did not see the movie so I don't get it.


Well I misremembered, it was actually a different character that said “*The code is more what you'd call 'guidelines' than actual rules*." in reference to the Pirates’ code about parlays and surrenders, etc. Your quip about the rules being guidelines just reminded me of the movie.


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## green branch (Oct 24, 2020)

ArkansasGold said:


> Do y'all think it makes a difference in a puppy if they are introduced to birds super early (like 6 weeks) or if it happens later, at 8-12 weeks? Or even later than that? I guess my main question is, is it worth it for the breeder to introduce the puppies to birds before they go home?


I remember reading that Jackie Mertens does not introduce birds to young puppies. It can create bad habits. An older dog might not want to pick the bird if not introduced early, but if it has the obedience it can be taught. Young dog, like young kids, will put anything in their mouth.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

nah


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I'm not sure that introducing pups to birds at 6 wks vs. 8 wks makes any difference. I absolutely would want to do it before maybe 3 months of age.
A breeder friend of mine has birds in the whelping box, live pigeons at five weeks, and a crate with live pigeons in the puppies' outdoor pen from age 6 weeks til they go home. This might sound great, but what I have noticed when I've tested their recent litters with birds, is that the puppies are sorta blase' about birds! They see them TOO MUCH. This goes into adulthood where the dogs are willing but not ecstatic about birds. Maybe it's genetics and the bird exposure doesn't matter.
Chewing on birds is 100% normal for young or inexperienced dogs, I have zero problems with it in fact I'd rather have a dog try to eat a bird than be disinterested. If the puppy wants to devour a bird, then great, he likes birds, now use bumpers until he's force fetched.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

never mind.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

I believe teaching obedience first is important. Because, without it you don't have anything else. I concentrate on recalls, retrieves, basic obedience first. They do get to "play" field along with other sports when they are young. I guess I kind of teach them a little of everything while they are babies.

Both of mine got to play with a wing before coming home. They also had scent articles. When I brought them home, we played with mini paint rollers, puppy bumpers and a "puppy" dumbbell. Worked on force fetch. I've never had a retrieve problem. Never had a chewing problem. Never had them refuse to pick up a certain material. Pilot can pick up a dime from a tile floor.

I think we all concentrate on our sport of choice starting out and work into other venues. It all works out in the end. The problems I'm having stem from life events, not training concentrations. And we are finding creative ways to work on them.

Edited to add:

Speaking of....this photo of Pilot as a puppy working on a dumbbell hold popped up on my Facebook today! He was almost 7 months old.


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## MintChip (Feb 26, 2021)

GrandmaToGoldens said:


> Yes, but be aware of possible conflicts in training. For example, excessive or punitive pile drills could make scent discrimination training difficult.



Can you explain why? Just learning here.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

GrandmaToGoldens said:


> punitive pile drills





MintChip said:


> Can you explain why? Just learning here.


I'm curious also. What are "punitive pile drills" and what is the purpose of them?


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## Hildae (Aug 15, 2012)

I've no idea how a pile drill could be punitive, but I was told that in OB they send to pile and the dog has to retrieve a specific item, by scent discrimination, not just get an item. (In field, the dog is just to grab and return with the first item they find.) In field we'd call that "shopping" and it's undesirable. In OB it's a wanted behavior, to find the specific item. So I'd guess that is where the conflict could be.


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## GrandmaToGoldens (Jul 2, 2019)

My understanding is that the primary purpose of pike Work is to teach the dog to fetch the item it’s sent to, without checking nearby items. In UD Obedience Scent Discrimination, the dog is required to check an array of articles to identify and retrieve the article with the handler’s scent on it.
Dogs are very capable of learning to check and select in the context of Scent Discrimination but to retrieve without checking in the context of of Directed Retrieve or pile Work. That’s fundamental UD training. However, if they have been taught never to check before retrieving under any circumstances, they may be confused or worried when the handler expects them to search and find the correct article.

When you train across multiple sports (as I do), it’s important to keep in mind your end goals in all sports, and structure your basic training accordingly.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

GrandmaToGoldens said:


> My understanding is that the primary purpose of pike Work is to teach the dog to fetch the item it’s sent to, without checking nearby items. In UD Obedience Scent Discrimination, the dog is required to check an array of articles to identify and retrieve the article with the handler’s scent on it.


There are no nearby piles and normally all the bumpers are all kept in the same place and smell the same.
Picking up the correct scented item may be a big deal in obedience but dogs just do that naturally. If I were to set out a half dozen brand new bumpers and just one old one, my dogs would pick up the old one first every time. Young dogs will sometimes ignore a bumper that is new or has not been kept with the ones they are used to. 
Hope that doesn't burst anyone's bubble.


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## GrandmaToGoldens (Jul 2, 2019)

Maybe on-line articles misrepresent common training practices. A foot between bumpers seems quite close.


https://loneduckoutfitters.com/blogs/the-gun-dog-blog/pile-work-article-one



“Rick places three to five white bumpers in a line with a foot or more of separation between them. The space between the bumpers will decrease the likelihood of "shopping." Shopping is when your retriever is at a pile of bumpers and selects the one they want after careful deliberation.”
“You can reinforce any refusals with a repeat of the Fetch command accompanied with an ear pinch."


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

GrandmaToGoldens said:


> Maybe on-line articles misrepresent common training practices. A foot between bumpers seems quite close.


That's common, I do it to prevent a dog from picking up multiple bumpers either intentionally or by accident. 
"Shopping" is rarely more than a minor issue. It can be a sign that Force Fetch still needs work which is why the ear pinch was mentioned.


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## GrandmaToGoldens (Jul 2, 2019)

Retrieving is a great place to start training. Even within Obedience, my mentor always taught the exercises “backwards”. She’d introduce informal retrieves by six weeks and scent discrimination at 3 to 4 months (when the puppy understood stay) then follow with heeling and fronts, using retrieves as the reward.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Whew reading so much about pile work and scent articles from people who have never done both is quite amusing!


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

DevWind said:


> I think we all concentrate on our sport of choice starting out and work into other venues.


I don't disagree, but my post is directed at people that want to do field work and put field titles on their dogs. It's way easier to start there then try to pick it up later.


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## PalouseDogs (Aug 14, 2013)

K9-Design said:


> Whew reading so much about pile work and scent articles from people who have never done both is quite amusing!


I’ve done both. OB is my priority. Hunt training is fun, but with a 2.5 hour drive one-way to the nearest training ground and still being a working stiff, I can only dabble in hunt training. I don’t worry about shopping the pile. They can shop to their little heart’s content. If they’re really having trouble making a decision, I might say “Come on, hurry up, we haven’t got all day.” Other people I’ve talked to that do both either do the same or let the dog figure out from context when to grab and when to search. Dogs are very situational.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

PalouseDogs said:


> I’ve done both. OB is my priority. Hunt training is fun, but with a 2.5 hour drive one-way to the nearest training ground and still being a working stiff, I can only dabble in hunt training. I don’t worry about shopping the pile. They can shop to their little heart’s content. If they’re really having trouble making a decision, I might say “Come on, hurry up, we haven’t got all day.” Other people I’ve talked to that do both either do the same or let the dog figure out from context when to grab and when to search. Dogs are very situational.


Same! I just simply don't have time to train field. I do plan to work on it a little next year but it's never going to get to the top levels with Pilot. I don't have time to train and can't afford a pro.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

myluckypenny said:


> I don't disagree, but my post is directed at people that want to do field work and put field titles on their dogs. It's way easier to start there then try to pick it up later.


Eh....kinda sorta. I know people who started with field, and I know people who started with obedience. From my experience, I see calmer, more collected dog that started with obedience. The ones that started with field were a bit nutty. I think you need to consider your final goals. If your goal a high-level title in a certain sport, that's where you should start. I know people who want and accomplish all those high-level titles. There's huge differences between us. They are retired, have a lot more money, don't have other obligations, etc. 

For me, I chose my goals around what I can actually achieve. So, obedience and rally are my high-level title goals. I'd like a get a JH or WC...maybe even both! I know with a little more work, I can achieve that. Field is fun. We go to all the fun field days my club does. He has a natural talent for it. Training occurs while I'm at work. Hopefully, I'll get more in next year since things will be changing a little for us.


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

DevWind said:


> Eh....kinda sorta. I know people who started with field, and I know people who started with obedience. From my experience, I see calmer, more collected dog that started with obedience. The ones that started with field were a bit nutty.


I think we likely have different preferences in style. Calm and collected is not appealing to me at all lol, I'd probably pick those nutty ones every single time.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

DevWind said:


> We go to all the fun field days my club does. He has a natural talent for it.


That is about 90% of what is needed for a JH.


myluckypenny said:


> Calm and collected is not appealing to me at all lol


At the line calm and, more importantly, collected is great. After being sent, calm is not a positive trait.


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## reneechristine8 (9 mo ago)

Disclaimer: idk if I'm using any of the correct terminology because I'm a total novice. Please let me know if you're confused by any part of what I'm saying!

Does anyone know of any field retrieve trainers in Minnesota?

Without really knowing it, I started doing field work training with my pup and he loves it. I was trying to think of a game that would combine impulse control, retrieving, and running around in tall grass so I started putting my puppy in a sit, then saying "wait," tossing a tennis ball into the field, releasing him with an "okay," and letting him find the ball/bring it back to me. I started researching field exercises and realized that's essentially what I'd been doing (maybe not using the proper commands though and also no whistle). Anyways, my dog is really getting the hang of this and I think he'd like to do more field work! He has a lot of drive and I love spending time training him! I understand that we're getting into this relatively late at 10 months old, but I'd still like to give field training a try even if we never end up competing — if anything just to satisfy my pup's needs. 

I should mention, we're doing our first dock diving competition in a couple weeks. Our boy is 10 months old and regularly jumping into the junior category now. We're also total dock diving newbies and really just got into it last spring because we were looking for a way to tire our puppy out and it turned out that he loved swimming. Now he loves jumping just as much as he loves swimming! If anyone has resources for training cleaner water retrieve, I'm all ears on that too!


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

reneechristine8 said:


> Does anyone know of any field retrieve trainers in Minnesota?


There are many, where in MN are you?


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

reneechristine8 said:


> Does anyone know of any field retrieve trainers in Minnesota?


You literally live in the best state for field work . Just tell us where and we can give you club and pro recommendations!


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

reneechristine8 said:


> Does anyone know of any field retrieve trainers in Minnesota...... I love spending time training him! I understand that we're getting into this relatively late at 10 months old, but I'd still like to give field training a try even if we never end up competing .......


You've been training obedience and he has learned to love water, you're not too late. And you will both love it  Keep us posted


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

myluckypenny said:


> You literally live in the best state for field work . Just tell us where and we can give you club and pro recommendations!


 I just thought "Minnesota?" "are you kidding me?!?!  How easy will that be.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

reneechristine8 said:


> He has a lot of drive and I love spending time training him! I understand that we're getting into this relatively late at 10 months old, but I'd still like to give field training a try even if we never end up competing — if anything just to satisfy my pup's needs.


You are not too late. Better than finding a pro and since you love training him, you should be able to find experienced amateurs to train with.


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## reneechristine8 (9 mo ago)

myluckypenny said:


> You literally live in the best state for field work . Just tell us where and we can give you club and pro recommendations!


Anything in the metro area or on the west side of the cities would work!


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

reneechristine8 said:


> Anything in the metro area or on the west side of the cities would work!


Retriever Clubs:
Central Minnesota Retriever Club - They even a beginner field work class during the spring. Follow them on facebook for updates.








Welcome - Lake Country Retriever Club


Welcome to the Lake Country Retriever Club Welcome to the Lake Country Retriever Club, located near Prior Lake, MN. We are a retriever club with members



lcretrieverclub.org








__





Vikingland Retriever Club


Vikingland Retriever Club is a non-profit, licensed American Kennel Club (AKC) organization formed in 2017 whose purpose is to further the advancement of purebred retriever breeds through training, education and sporting events for amateurs and youth handlers, while promoting sportsmanlike conduct.



www.vikinglandretrieverclub.com








__





Land of Lakes HRC – For hunters by hunters






llhrc.org


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

__





Benton Retriever Grounds : Owned and operated by Hennepin County Amateur Retriever Club (HCARC) and Minnesota Field trial Association (MFTA)






www.bentonretrievergrounds.com




Gopher State Retriever Club


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## sam34 (9 mo ago)

DevWind said:


> From my experience, I see calmer, more collected dog that started with obedience. The ones that started with field were a bit nutty.


Nutty or high octane? I think what you've noticed may be more related to the dogs than training, considering all field training starts with obedience.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

SRW said:


> That is about 90% of what is needed for a JH.
> 
> At the line calm and, more importantly, collected is great. After being sent, calm is not a positive trait.


JH would be our goal. WC Iisn’t all that difficult for him either..He just needs some more experience before entering something. In obedience that calmer more collected dog is less likely to make stupid mistakes.


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## sam34 (9 mo ago)

Lots a parallels between dogs and the quarter horses we used to have. When my wife was younger (young enough to walk away after getting thrown through a board fence), her barrel horse was high octane to say the least. Collected before a run was a challenge, and calm was a non-starter. That horse was amazing in action, though. She never let me ride her horses. Mine were always much more collected and calm trail horses. 

That same horse, when it was older, was the one that all 3 of my kids learned to ride on, starting when they were about 2. He knew when a kid was in the saddle and you couldn't ask for a calmer horse. When my wife climbed on, he still pranced around like he was a kid. 2 out of the 3 pure bred goldens we've had (both field dogs) are a lot like that horse, but like him, they have off switches. We actually prefer the crazy ones.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I'd be more worried about how my dog does in water retrieves than if they will pick up a bird. Dogs in junior hunt tests go out on water, land is usually not a problem. I personally don't bother trying pups on birds. I wait until FF is done. If I let them have birds before FF, then they will eat birds as they should. But I do spend a lot of time in water related fun. I want a dog that leaps and swims and goes for it in the water. Too many dogs don't get exposed to enough water, mud/muck, marshes, islands, peninsulas, stick ponds, etc. I worry more about that, than retrieving birds. Water is great exercise for dogs.


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## reneechristine8 (9 mo ago)

myluckypenny said:


> Retriever Clubs:
> Central Minnesota Retriever Club - They even a beginner field work class during the spring. Follow them on facebook for updates.
> 
> 
> ...


I ended up getting in touch with Lake Country Retriever Club and they seem like a really good fit! They have practice slots 3x/week where you can go out with groups and learn, pro nights where they bring in speakers, a library of resources, competitions, and social events. I spoke with a board member for a while who gave me a checklist of things to work on over the winter so we started hold conditioning two days ago and we'll buckle down on heeling too, plus fine tuning his reliability with general obedience. 

Thanks all! Any additional training advice is always appreciated!


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

reneechristine8 said:


> I ended up getting in touch with Lake Country Retriever Club and they seem like a really good fit! They have practice slots 3x/week where you can go out with groups and learn, pro nights where they bring in speakers, a library of resources, competitions, and social events. I spoke with a board member for a while who gave me a checklist of things to work on over the winter so we started hold conditioning two days ago and we'll buckle down on heeling too, plus fine tuning his reliability with general obedience.
> 
> Thanks all! Any additional training advice is always appreciated!


That sounds great, I hope they have a lot of interest.
Never underestimate the importance of good basics 
When training, be very conscious of all your movements, voice, cadence, etc. Because your dog is reading all of those things.


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

reneechristine8 said:


> I ended up getting in touch with Lake Country Retriever Club and they seem like a really good fit! They have practice slots 3x/week where you can go out with groups and learn, pro nights where they bring in speakers, a library of resources, competitions, and social events. I spoke with a board member for a while who gave me a checklist of things to work on over the winter so we started hold conditioning two days ago and we'll buckle down on heeling too, plus fine tuning his reliability with general obedience.
> 
> Thanks all! Any additional training advice is always appreciated!


My training advice is about learning who to take training advice from, because you will get lots of unsolicited advice (especially if you are woman). When you go to group training, don't run first, watch other folks if you can. Find someone that when they run you are thinking "that's what I want to look like/what I want my dog to look like" and then ask them questions. If you find one you really like, ask them if they can watch you while you run your dog, and tell them you would love their feedback. I find that the really good handlers have to be asked to give feedback. It's the terrible ones that love to tell everyone what they are doing wrong. And stay far away from folks that act like they are trying to win a training session. In training, your dog shouldn't be perfect, if they are then you probably aren't challenging them enough.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Bringing this one back up. I found out when I was in Arkansas for Christmas that my grandfather is raising quail. Good starter bird for really young puppies? They are free for me and will be easier than ordering ducks. 😅 Will have access to live and dead ones.


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## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

ArkansasGold said:


> Bringing this one back up. I found out when I was in Arkansas for Christmas that my grandfather is raising quail. Good starter bird for really young puppies? They are free for me and will be easier than ordering ducks. 😅 Will have access to live and dead ones.


Yes, great option for puppies! I've never introduced a puppy to quail but I don't think they mean like pheasants, so I don't think introducing a live one would be a problem.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

myluckypenny said:


> Yes, great option for puppies! I've never introduced a puppy to quail but I don't think they mean like pheasants, so I don't think introducing a live one would be a problem.


They are pretty skittish, so I don’t think that will be a problem. Maybe a bonus will be that Eevee will like them too 😂 she loves live birds, but dead ones are a no go for her. She never saw a dead duck until she was 16 months old, so I’m trying to avoid that whole issue with her babies. 

My grandfather said he could dry out the skins when he kills them for eating and I could wrap them on bumpers so they would last longer.


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## Hildae (Aug 15, 2012)

We raise quail and started our pup on them.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I would dizzy the birds or put them to sleep, and hide them in the brush for the pup to find. You can tape the wings of the birds so they can't fly away. Or you can just let the birds fly away and not worry about taping them. 
Pups using their noses to find birds is such a great thing. It really turns on that switch. My best upland dog was a show dog. She was fierce and a huge predator. She would go to the ends of the earth to find her birds. Have fun with your puppy!
P.S. Let me know if don't know how to dizzy or put a bird to sleep.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Alaska7133 said:


> I would dizzy the birds or put them to sleep, and hide them in the brush for the pup to find. You can tape the wings of the birds so they can't fly away. Or you can just let the birds fly away and not worry about taping them.
> Pups using their noses to find birds is such a great thing. It really turns on that switch. My best upland dog was a show dog. She was fierce and a huge predator. She would go to the ends of the earth to find her birds. Have fun with your puppy!
> P.S. Let me know if don't know how to dizzy or put a bird to sleep.


If I do any of this at my house in Chicago, we can’t have quail randomly flying away. 😂 But thank you! I will let y’all know if I have any other questions! 

Puppies won’t be here for several more months, since I’m waiting on her to come back in season. 🫠 Super excited about it all though and crossing fingers that everything goes well!


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## green branch (Oct 24, 2020)

ArkansasGold said:


> She never saw a dead duck until she was 16 months old, so I’m trying to avoid that whole issue with her babies.


I am not sure if it really matters if a breeder exposes puppies to birds. What owners do with the puppies will matter. A puppy will put a bird in their mouth, but if it doesn’t see a bird in a year it won’t matter. 
I bet Eevee can be taught to carry ducks, if that is what you want. Yes, for an adult dog it is strange to have feathers in their mouth. I was teaching my dog to like birds when he was a year and a half. You should have seen me. Once the kids are gone to school, I take a duck out of the fridge and run around to get him excited to pick it up… It was fun.


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## green branch (Oct 24, 2020)

ArkansasGold said:


> If I do any of this at my house in Chicago, we can’t have quail randomly flying away.


I know what you mean. We live in an urban area. Couldn’t have neighbors watch the ordeal. I did it inside the house, after the kids went to school. A garage is a good option, if you have it. I only used dead ducks.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

green branch said:


> I am not sure if it really matters if a breeder exposes puppies to birds. What owners do with the puppies will matter. A puppy will put a bird in their mouth, but if it doesn’t see a bird in a year it won’t matter.
> I bet Eevee can be taught to carry ducks, if that is what you want. Yes, for an adult dog it is strange to have feathers in their mouth. I was teaching my dog to like birds when he was a year and a half. You should have seen me. Once the kids are gone to school, I take a duck out of the fridge and run around to get him excited to pick it up… It was fun.


I think it absolutely could have been prevented with her had she been exposed at a younger age to dead things. It’s not the feathers - she’s put live birds in her mouth before - it’s the deadness. Lol 



green branch said:


> I know what you mean. We live in an urban area. Couldn’t have neighbors watch the ordeal. I did it inside the house, after the kids went to school. A garage is a good option, if you have it. I only used dead ducks.


I don’t care if the neighbors watch, I just don’t want to be responsible for letting live quail loose in the neighborhood. 😂


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## green branch (Oct 24, 2020)

In Massachusetts, there are laws about game birds.You need to have a certain license to have them in your posession.


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## Hildae (Aug 15, 2012)

ArkansasGold said:


> If I do any of this at my house in Chicago, we can’t have quail randomly flying away. 😂 But thank you! I will let y’all know if I have any other questions!
> 
> Puppies won’t be here for several more months, since I’m waiting on her to come back in season. 🫠 Super excited about it all though and crossing fingers that everything goes well!





green branch said:


> In Massachusetts, there are laws about game birds.You need to have a certain license to have them in your posession.


Depends greatly on the type of quail you're talking about. Are they bobwhites, or coturnix?


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## green branch (Oct 24, 2020)

ArkansasGold said:


> it’s the deadness.


That too. If you want, you can teach her to go over that. You would be surprise to see that at the end she prefers to bring ducks (dead or live) over bumpers.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Hildae said:


> Depends greatly on the type of quail you're talking about. Are they bobwhites, or coturnix?


Bobwhites. I will find out any laws applicable to my neighborhood. I just wanted to know if they were a good starter bird since they are free and in a place I visit often. 😅


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## Hildae (Aug 15, 2012)

Ah that's too bad, there are more regs on bobwhites. Cots are nice because they won't last long if they escape and they don't incubate their own eggs (half the time they stomp on them or eat them  ) so even if they managed to live longer than a few days, no more are being made.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

OK, honestly quail might be good for 5-8 week old puppies. But they are very fast and flighty and the pups might not even register that they should be interested in a live one. Pigeons are way better for puppies and new dogs. Also...quail are surprisingly tiny. ONE TIME we got quail and all the dogs just wanted to eat them, or ignored them because they were like little tweety birds. Added bonus, nobody cares if a pigeon flies away.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

K9-Design said:


> OK, honestly quail might be good for 5-8 week old puppies. But they are very fast and flighty and the pups might not even register that they should be interested in a live one. Pigeons are way better for puppies and new dogs. Also...quail are surprisingly tiny. ONE TIME we got quail and all the dogs just wanted to eat them, or ignored them because they were like little tweety birds. Added bonus, nobody cares if a pigeon flies away.


I was more interested in the dead ones. Live ones are super fast. 

We have PLENTY of pigeons in Chicago 🤣


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## PalouseDogs (Aug 14, 2013)

Maybe for really young puppies. Quail are tasty snacks, especially Bobwhites.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

PalouseDogs said:


> Maybe for really young puppies. Quail are tasty snacks, especially Bobwhites.


I agree, they are tasty!


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

ArkansasGold said:


> Bringing this one back up. I found out when I was in Arkansas for Christmas that my grandfather is raising quail. Good starter bird for really young puppies? They are free for me and will be easier than ordering ducks. 😅 Will have access to live and dead ones.


It's great when you find out you have a connection to free birds! I get pheasants that way. My stepdad works as the groundskeeper at a local sportsman's club. I get the ones that don't survive the trip in. Since my access to ducks is very limited, it works. I was totally thinking of joining the club but they only allow training in February. Ohio is COLD in February!


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

DevWind said:


> I was totally thinking of joining the club but they only allow training in February. Ohio is COLD in February!


What else are you going to do in February?

Not much of a sportsman's club if they only allow training one month of the year, I wouldn't join it.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

SRW said:


> What else are you going to do in February?
> 
> Not much of a sportsman's club if they only allow training one month of the year, I wouldn't join it.


That's exactly why I didn't. Their reasoning is so dogs aren't disturbing the wildlife. I don't understand it either...


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

DevWind said:


> Their reasoning is so dogs aren't disturbing the wildlife.


Whoever it is making the rules has never seen a trained retriever.


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## DevWind (Nov 7, 2016)

SRW said:


> Whoever it is making the rules has never seen a trained retriever.


You could be right. We really don’t have endangered animals. There’s deer, rabbits, squirrel, etc.


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