# Growling Pup



## WoodysMum (Mar 13, 2007)

Hi all. Want some advice. Last night my 5 month old dog was chewing his chew and 2 of my kids went to stroke him and he started to growl at them! So i approached him and he started to growl at me to but i didn't back off i removed the chew from his mouth but him to the floor and made him submit to me. Later in the evening when it was quieter my husband gave him back his chew and then he approached him again only to get the same response, him growling, so hubby removed chew and made him submit to him also. Now im wondering have we got an aggressive dog or is this normal. I'm really worried. Up untill now this has been the only aggression he has shown he's been really soft dog. Has anyone else had similar problems and what did you do i would love to know.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

No, that's not normal... it's a budding aggression problem.

The first thing I'd do, b/c you have kids in the house, is pick up all rawhide. Find another type of chew that he isn't as apt to guard, like the durable Nylabone or a hollow, steralized bone. Teach him to "share" bones by you holding it and allowing him to chew it -- so that you become the source of the bone rather than the threat. He's growling now b/c he thinks that the humans are a threat to that specific resource. Teach him to trade the new, lower-value bone for a treat. Do a trade where he gets the treat, you get the bone and then you give back the bone. We need him to understand that humans near the bone no longer represents a threat.

Be careful with all the dominance, "make him submit" stuff. Can easily backfire in the longrun. Better to change how he feels about the situation then to get into a power struggle. With some dogs, that work for so long and then they feel backed into a corner and decide to fight back - and with their mouthful of teeth, when they really want to fight back, someone gets bitten and then everybody loses.

I'd get him into training ASAP, too and start a strict Nothing in Life is Free program where he sits to earn everything he wants. I'd also do some basic status reduction around the house, too -- like not allowing him on the couch and having him sleep confined.

Make sure your kids all know never to try and take anything off him. Even if he steals one of their toys, the house rule needs to be that they come get a parent. Better to be safe than sorry and guarding behaviors can easily generalize to any stolen objects.

Keep us posted.

BTW - the Association of Pet Dog Trainers is a great resource for finding classes and trainers. Stick with positive methods. They work better and are much more user friendly both for the handler and the dog!

-Stephanie


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

Well your dog is telling you that he wants to eat his chew in peace, which is kind of fair enough from his point of view...but I guess many people aren't comfortable with a dog that will growl and as your dog doesn't have human logic you taking away the treat is making it A LOT worse and reinforcing the behaviour, you are basically giving him the reason to growl. Food is a big event in a dogs life and as he is happily chewing, someone walking near him and then putting their hands all over him is making him feel threatened and on edge...then to make it worse the treat then gets taken awy. Making him 'submit' to you will reeeally not help, if you are telling him off for the warning growl then next time he might just not give you that warning and may just snap instead. So you will really have to work hard to make him comfortable about you being near him, you have to teach him that there is no need to worry about you being around him when food is involved. With both my dogs, right from the first day I will always given them a little bit of kibble, then as soon as they have finished that will give tem a handful more...then a handful more after that...they will then associate your hand with all things GOOD...even if my dogs are both chewing on raw bones I will walk passed and just hand them another treat...this just reinforces this concept, Ive never had a single growl from any of my dogs, and because they dont have any reason to growl they would let me pick up any treat (even a raw bone) from them without the slightest concern.

Here are some very good articles that may help...

ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- Help for Object Guarding

Resource Guarding Help - Dogs guarding bones, puppies growling over beds

Good luck with him, I would really advise trying some of the exercises in the articles.


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## WoodysMum (Mar 13, 2007)

*Growling Dog*

Thanks for your help. Definately will try what you said, it makes so much sense. He's a wonderfull dog and we dont want to screw him up by doing it wrong. We will start straight away with your advice and will keep you informed, THANKS !!!


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

oh he is still so young you will work through this in no time! Its just about understanding why he is doing it and making him feel more at ease so he doesn't feel the need to anymore...like Stefanie said this is NOT about a power struggle between owner and dog...that way of doing things will just lead to a more stressed out doggy and will ultimately make things a lot worse!


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## Jazz's Mom (Feb 26, 2007)

Jazz has never had rawhide or other similar chew treats. I've heard too often about dogs becoming aggressive when they have them. Throw them away.


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

aw I don't think that is reason enough to throw away all treats! It's so simple to just get them used to you handling their food so they have no reason to growl. Its when people think they are 'showing them who's boss' by snatching away treats from a pup at any opportunity that creates a growling food 'guarder.' If an owner consistantly proves to the dog that they have a reason to NEED to guard the food then why wouldnt the dog want to guard it...if some bugger kept coming up to me and started snatching my chocolate bar away everytime I had just settled down to eat it then I would growl too!


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

I've read that the alpha roll is not something that you should be doing and can get bit for it. 

If I were you, I would do a few things immediately. Bring your dog to obedience with your children so they all learn how to properly work with the dog, etc.

I would also take away all toys and rawhides and put them in a basket or something, he gets one at a time and they come from a human. He needs to learn to associate all good things coming from you guys.

I would not let him on furniture, I would make him go through doorways after all the humans have gone through them, and I would make him go into a sit/stay or lie down before giving him dinner, treats, toy, etc.

You need to also teach your children good boundaries with him and always supervise them, otherwise you could be setting your golden up to fail. This is not good that he growled, but it can be corrected. If you feel things are escalating, bring a professional trainer in, don't wait for a bite.


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## Buffy & Abby's Mom (Nov 27, 2005)

I had a similar problem with Buffy with rawhides when she was a puppy but this involved the cat. She would snap at him if he even came close - just walking by. After a couple incidents like that, I just banned rawhides completely from the house. Any other food, she wasn't that way. She'd let him eat out of her bowl with no problem. It was just the rawhide that brought out the beast in her. So now, the only treats both her and Abby get are the kind that are eaten quickly.


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## WoodysMum (Mar 13, 2007)

Thanks for all advise. I have already been doing some of your tips, humans first through doors, sitting for food, and obedience classes are starting in a couple of weeks as they are full up at the moment. Going to definately remove chews and give them to him only when we are out as they help with his teething as he loves to chew on it. So he can chew in peace. Was just a bit worried as he is a rescue and we dont know what he's parent are like. Apart from last nights "chew growl" he seems a lovely softy with a nice temprement. We took him to a football match today and he loved all the attention and was very well behaved. So thanks for all advice.


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

Jazz's Mom said:


> Jazz has never had rawhide or other similar chew treats. I've heard too often about dogs becoming aggressive when they have them. Throw them away.


That is so funny. Charlie has NEVER growled with food or any toy until we took him to my brothers house and he found their dogs rawhide. We don't use rawhide at all and he didn't growl at us but when their dog came to him he started growling like crazy. He didn't do that with any other toy, just the rawhide.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Charlie06 said:


> That is so funny. Charlie has NEVER growled with food or any toy until we took him to my brothers house and he found their dogs rawhide. We don't use rawhide at all and he didn't growl at us but when their dog came to him he started growling like crazy. He didn't do that with any other toy, just the rawhide.


You are able to take anything from my golden's mouth, too, but not all dogs are the same. As a pup, an perhaps an isolated incident, it could be a sign of a dominant personality, which is fine, but it must be dealt with now.

My suggestions would still be to go through doorways first, make him wait, take the toys and give them out one at a time so you own them and not him. That kind of thing.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Yes, I believe it is a dominance/aggression issue surfacing and you should start dealing with it beginning now... if you do, it should be just a minor 'bump' in your relationship that is easily correctable. How long have you had this rescue? Sometimes it can take several weeks for all the 'bad habits' to show up... when a dog is 'shuffled' around, he often responds by 'shutting down' so to speak until he can get his bearings and start feeling like things are more predictable again... as he begins getting comfortable he will start to show more personality traits. However this guy is so young still, he is just learning how things work and he is testing you and so I think you can 'fix' this problem quite easily.

I'm not sure I can go along with everything that's been posted on this so far. What I do agree with is... NILIF, yes you need to begin that immediately... just do a forum search and also a larger Internet search, there is lots of information explaining many aspects of the Nothing In Life Is Free philosophy and approach.

As far as practicing 'self-control' exercises during feeding... yep that is a very good thing to do... hand-feed small portions at a time. What you are striving for is a dog who will give you respect by waiting for your okay to eat and will allow you to remove his food bowl at anytime, ...meaning he doesn't guard food (the first signs of this behavior starting is a dog that will stop eating and basically freezes with his head still in the bowl if anyone approaches... not good). Practicing self-control at feeding time by YOU limiting his meals to small portions that he must do something for (like "sit" and "stay") and allowing your hands near the bowl in order to get fed and the repetition of this routine several times per meal will very quickly get the message across that... polite behavior is the way to get fed around your house.

I however would NOT remove rawhide from his list of approved treats/chews and believe that solves the behavior... the behavior will just transfer itself to a toy or anything else he wants you to keep your grubby paws off of... this is not the relationship you should allow. Deal with this dog now! simply removing the object will only serve to postpone the inevitable showdown for later when he is a little bigger and faster. Only remove the rawhide temporarily... Once you have him "eating out of your hand" so to speak and NILIF has been going well (shouldn't take more than a couple of days for him to get the idea who controls the resources) then give him a rawhide (of course make him do something for it first) but don't release the end of it... hold half in your hand and let him chew on the free end. After a minute remove the rawhide treat... if he gets nasty about it put it away and try again in a few more days (remember to keep practicing NILIF all the while). Eventually you WILL get him to the point where he will relinquish it without any protest... I'm going to guess it won't take long at all... as I really believe he is just testing you now. At that point you can fully release the rawhide to him. Everyone in your household should participate eventually in doing these exercises with him.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

_What you are striving for is a dog who will give you respect by waiting for your okay to eat and will allow you to remove his food bowl at anytime, ...meaning he doesn't guard food (*the first signs of this behavior starting is a dog that will stop eating and basically freezes with his head still in the bowl if anyone approaches...* not good)._

Actually, there's a step that often proceeds the "freeze". Many dogs will start eating much, must faster, almost as though they're hoarding the food before the freeze. Just something else to keep an eye out for.

_I however would NOT remove rawhide from his list of approved treats/chews and believe that solves the behavior... the behavior will just transfer itself to a toy or anything else he wants you to keep your grubby paws off of... _

The dog may generalize the guarding behavior, but not always. For this person's specific situation, given that she has young children, removing the current "trigger" (the rawhide) is a safety issue. Yes they need to be working on deference and taching the dog that a hand/human near "the goods" is a great thing vs. a threat, but they can do that with lower-value chew items. In fact, it's better to teach the new behavior (that of accepting a human/hand near the resource) on an easier item like a Nylabone or toy. They can always work up to rawhide if they have some deep, burning desire to give rawhide to the dog.

I still stand by the idea of nixing the rawhide and substituting a different, lower-value chew. When you work to modify behavior, you want to prevent the dog from rehersing the unwanted behavior. Plus, in my practice, I see a huge correlation between resource guarding and the "animal chews" like rawhide, chew hooves, pigs ears, etc. I don't see guarding hardly at all with Nylabones, steralized bones or dog toys. Again, I'd rather she be safe than sorry b/c of the kids.

-Stephanie


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## WoodysMum (Mar 13, 2007)

Thanks flyquizini i will definately watch out when he is eaten to see if there is any change when he's eating. He has no problem with anyone around his food at the moment. I have always made him from day 1 to sit and wait for his food. He's really soft and friendly so hoping it is a one off incident caused by chew. We can ask him for anything else that he has no problem, and ive always taken away something he shouldnt have and offered him something that he has been aloud with no problem. Hubby thinks im panacking over nothing but i just dont want to have to worry about kids around him at all. Im going to take all your advice and put it into action as it makes so much sense and is spot on. Thanks to all of you its great to know there's people here that give such good advice. "Quicky update". Just fed him breakfast he had no problem with me being around him and putting my hands in to top up his food. Also he left some and went out in the garden and when he came back in my cat was eating it, i expected some reaction from him, but he just led down calmly and patiently untill she had had enough. I'm now thinking that the chew just brought out the beast in him, and maybe it should be limited to him when we r out, untill we are 100% sure of him and him of us.


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## Goldndust (Jul 30, 2005)

Yup, been there and done that! Telly was my only golden that done it, he was also the dog that was my wolfer when it came to feeding time, but no aggression with food, or toys. You could walk up to his bowl and stand by him, or reach in your hand in with no problems, and you could take toys from him with no problems. But give him a rawhide, and he was like a different dog. He'd tense up before you even came near, then once you got close the growl came, and the guarding began. Rawhides can be highly prized items to some, as bones or food can be to others. It really doesn't mean your dog is aggressive otherwise at all. It does mean though without work it can become more aggressive as the pup gets older and bigger though, then it becomes more work so it's good too hear you see an issue, and your dealing with it head on now! 

I don't believe you have a true dominent dog, if you did he would have fought you when put under the roll. True dominent dogs will not just roll over and settle. 

The route I took was since mine showed no signs of guarding by other means, meaning food or toys, etc. was working in the area where the problem was, all my energy went in that area. I did not follow the NILIF program, because I didn't have a dominent dog by any other means. Basically what it amounted to was I never reached down to take, but what I gave a even higher prized item that mine would fall for, and that was cooked chicken cut up and lots of it down on the floor working with him daily. Soon he realized that I was not out to take his rawhide, but too give something even better and then give back his rawhide each time I took it, gave chicken, then gave back his rawhide. Took about a month in all too fix.

I used no forms of aggression to work with this, since aggression will feed aggression so I wouldn't do the rolls on your pup since he is submitting instantly, and your seeing yourself it isn't fixing this, if anything it can make it worse and cause more fear towards you or one of the family members and all the more reason to push the pup into forward motion and swing a bite. 

I think for some pups, it is something you have to deal with it as you do with other things, such as chewing on furniture, etc. And you have to work with it as you do with those things, one on one. They do not come perfect as pups, we mold them into that perfect golden by way of training, work and time and patience of getting them there. Your pup sounds like a beautiful little puppy, just a little rough around the edges right now, and smoothing out those edges will fix the issue at hand.


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## WoodysMum (Mar 13, 2007)

Thanks Goldndust. Once again more sound advice. It can be so confusing getting it right. Some people tell you that you must let your dog know who boss is and make them submit to you from the start and others tell you differantly. Its a mine field of rights and wrongs and a headache for me too, which advice im going to follow. But must say that this forum has given really good sound advice, i like the idea of not having to be dominant with him as he's such a lovely dog, but he does need to know his place within the house as well. Everyone who meets him says what lovely friendly fellow he is. Its been difficult at times as we got him at around 14 weeks from a rescue. He had not been socialised and the house was a scary place for him. (Not anymore though). He's still a real pain when it comes to walkies he just refusses to go and no amount of tasty chicken treats, praise and silly talk will make him move! Anyone with advice on this would be greatly appreciated as we are surrounded by lovely fields at the end of our garden and we so want to take him out there.


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## Tailer'sFolks (Feb 27, 2007)

If you haven't read "The Other End Of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell...I would...I have jsut finished it and it was very helpful.

Walks should be fun...is he afraid of the leash...if so, clip him while in the house and let him drag, or carry the leash around for a few days...inside. After he is use to the leash, go for short walks...most dogs hate the leash at first, so I've heard...

I have a tennis ball manic...so tennis balls are our walking aid! Tailer didn't like walks till we started tossing the tennis ball and he quicly found out...if he broght it back, we'd toss it again & he could run to get it! 

Now, show him the leash & the ball & off we go! Tailer brings me his tennie balls to get me to take him out...if I'm not quick enough I might have 5 tennie balls on my lap or around my feet and him sitting there just looking at me..Mom...Hurry up Please...Ahh...Fur Kids!


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

We had the exact same thing with Tilly when she was about the same age...we too have such lovely walking areas and our pup didnt want to leave the garden!...now Im not sure I have the best advice to offer as I can't really remember what we did...she just really grew out of it, we kept the walks really short (which they should be at this age anyway) and I think walking her with my friends very happy, friendly dog helped a lot aswell, she kind of forgot that she didnt want to go when she was with a friend!! She is now very happy to go anywhere at all and definitely enjoys the fields like a dog should!


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## WoodysMum (Mar 13, 2007)

Walks are kept short, his choice not mine! Once he puts the brakes on i try everything if it doesn't work then we go in a differant direction, so as not to make walking a negative experiance for him. He's fine with the lead he doesn't mind it at all. We took him to a football match and walked him around there and he was as good as gold. But walk him from the house and its a different story altogether. When we first got him he wud not come out of the front door. So me and my 4 yr old son sat in the front garden for about 1/2 hr and just let him go in and out as he pleased, without anything happening to him ie; walkies. I Thought dogs were supposed to like walks!!!! Never had any problems before with a dog not wanting to walk, apart from one who didn't like bad weather, lol.


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## DaisyMay's mom (Feb 27, 2007)

Our 12 week old pup growls at the strangest things. The first time we heard her bark and growl was 2 week after we brought her home-- she barked and growled at my husband's tape measure and then barked at a paper bag. She's never showed any aggression with any of her toys or us.. yet. Just wanted to let you know that sometimes only they know why they are growling. 
:bowl:


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## jaredwolfe (Mar 22, 2007)

*growling pup*

I have a similar problem. I have a 9 week old pup that will growl at me or my wife if we pet her while she is eating. I even tried sticking my hand in her food bowl while she was eating and got a similar response, and she started to snap at me. We are taking her to puppy school in 3 weeks. I have been around many goldens before, and have never seen behavior like this. Any advice?


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