# Off Leash-K9 Training



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Maybe it's just me, but anytime I see K9 in the title for a training business - I assume it's police dog/guard dog sourced type training and run away.


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## MintChip (Feb 26, 2021)

Megora said:


> Maybe it's just me, but anytime I see K9 in the title for a training business - I assume it's police dog/guard dog sourced type training and run away.



They offer a wide variety of packages but I think the therapy program stuck out for me. I have realized there are so many training programs and word of mouth feels like the better indicator. Maybe I'm old school. As a novice-It's really hard to tell-as this certified training environment is new to me.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

And sure enough - it's zap collars based. Shock the dogs into obedience. >.< Not great.


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## MintChip (Feb 26, 2021)

Megora said:


> And sure enough - it's zap collars based. Shock the dogs into obedience. >.< Not great.


I had no idea. Thanks!


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Megora said:


> And sure enough - it's zap collars based. Shock the dogs into obedience. >.< Not great.


That is not how an e-collar is used. 
Your dislike for E collars does not change the fact that it is one of the most effective and humane training aids available.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

SRW said:


> That is not how an e-collar is used.
> Your dislike for E collars does not change the fact that it is one of the most effective and humane training aids available.


Which frequently is abused by short cut trainers and impatient owners. 

Please understand - I have no issues with ecollars in the hands of people who are taking the time to work with their dogs. I train with folks who have very high octane dogs and they do not take them off leash in a class without a zap collar on. It is a crutch in some ways, but obviously not that bad a crutch since these people have multiple OTCH's and MACH's on their dogs. 

But that's people with many years of training and working with dogs. I've not heard their dogs screaming or flailing around in pain like I have seen pet dogs whose owners are standing on the button practically after they apparently turned the charge up to the highest level. That is cruelty and animal abuse - and it goes by without check because these are people who do not train in public.

There are organizations that have people go to them because they don't want to take months to train a dog thoroughly. They want dogs trained in a week. And it's bad stuff.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Megora said:


> cruelty and animal abuse


It has been occuring for thousands of years.
E collars do not cause it.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

SRW said:


> It has been occuring for thousands of years.
> E collars do not cause it.


No - training programs cause it.

Any time you sell something to somebody without first training them how to appropriately use it and "do no harm".... that's the problem.

Gets worse when training programs deliberately cut corners while teaching dog training in relation to using any tool such as this.

And I'm not positive only - so it does mean something when I saying this. Because I don't believe dogs are tender little roses that will fall apart if you use a correction.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Megora said:


> No - training programs cause it.





Megora said:


> Shock the dogs into obedience.


Show me one training program that endorses this.


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## Dogsport (Mar 8, 2020)

Is this board and train? I looked up reviews and found all positive reviews, which itself is suspicious. Every trainer has a few dissatisfied customers. They use e collars on all breeds of dogs which is a bad philosophy. I know how to use an ecollar and out of all the dogs I’ve ever owned, have only had to use it on one dog and then in a limited way with very low stim and mainly to keep drive focused in a very high drive dog. Goldens have high energy but not the kind of drive that requires such extreme tools, unless a dog has been mishandled or improperly trained. I believe in teaching dogs life skills as a puppy, and only increasing the strength of tools if all else fails. if they do board and train, the dog willl learn to respond to an e collar but won’t have a training bond with the owner. The owner won’t know how to use the collar and how to proceed once the dog is back home again. I know some working dog owners who use es so their dogs can be off leash in situations where they may not respond. A fool proof recall eliminates the need for one.


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## MintChip (Feb 26, 2021)

Dogsport said:


> Is this board and train? I looked up reviews and found all positive reviews, which itself is suspicious. Every trainer has a few dissatisfied customers. They use e collars on all breeds of dogs which is a bad philosophy. I know how to use an ecollar and out of all the dogs I’ve ever owned, have only had to use it on one dog and then in a limited way with very low stim and mainly to keep drive focused in a very high drive dog. Goldens have high energy but not the kind of drive that requires such extreme tools, unless a dog has been mishandled or improperly trained. I believe in teaching dogs life skills as a puppy, and only increasing the strength of tools if all else fails. if they do board and train, the dog willl learn to respond to an e collar but won’t have a training bond with the owner. The owner won’t know how to use the collar and how to proceed once the dog is back home again. I know some working dog owners who use es so their dogs can be off leash in situations where they may not respond. A fool proof recall eliminates the need for one.


I've no idea if it's board and train tbqh. Is this common with therapy dog training or scentwork training? Also are e collars generally used for this specific type of training? Sorry I'm quite the novice. My golden has moderate to high drive but I can tell he is very sensitive. The one time I applied too much pressure during a puppy bitting incident (saw the move on youtube) - he became aggressive at any collar touches thereafter so I'm weary. We've tried out nosework and simple retrievals and he is so driven to work and quick to learn!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

MintChip said:


> I've no idea if it's board and train tbqh. Is this common with therapy dog training or scentwork training? Also are e collars generally used for this specific type of training?








Northern Virginia Dog Trainers | Off Leash K9 Dog Training | Dog Obedience Training Northern VA | Expert Dog Trainer | Pro Dog Trainer Nick White | Off Leash K9 Dog Training


Northern Virginia Dog Trainer Nick White at Off Leash K9 Training is your Dog Obedience Trainer Northern Virginia. If you need a Northern Virginia Dog Training professional, sign up for Dog Obedience Training or Board and Training.




www.offleashk9training.com





Based on this, they are ALL ABOUT ecollars. 

The promo picture of the guy who started the thing - the dog is clearly wearing an ecollar LOL.


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

Someone from Off Leash K-9 training came by my office with a Golden Retriever. I got the impression it was all about the ecollar. I would not consider turning a family pet over to board with trainers that I did not know. Some may be okay but it could also be a potentially nightmarish situation. Hunting dogs are a different story. Training your dog yourself is a very bonding experience.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Sensitivity in a dog is a sign of intelligence. There was a time when sensitive dogs were too soft for the training demands and methods used in field training. 
It is because of e-collars that these sensitive dogs now dominate field trials.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

Quite a few of my neighbors send their dogs off for these two week e-collar training gigs for thousands of dollars. It's not for me. I don't know the trainers well enough to turn over my dog to them. Also, a dog can't be trained in two weeks by someone else and then come home fully trained for the owner. I saw a video from a local one and they had a dog right by the busy intersection where our Main Street intersects another busy road at our capitol building. The dog was put in a distance sit stay with a bunch of people milling by and the busy road in the background as evidence of training. No thank you very much. I worry about the dogs and whether the owners are well versed in e-collar usage once they get their "trained" dogs back. I can see the benefits of e-collar usage if one does field training, hunting, or a lot of off lead hiking.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

diane0905 said:


> Quite a few of my neighbors send their dogs off for these two week e-collar training gigs for thousands of dollars.


Your neighbors are all being scammed.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

SRW said:


> Your neighbors are all being scammed.



Yeah. I agree.


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## MintChip (Feb 26, 2021)

Thanks for everyone's insight. I do prefer to train with my golden at my side-under a professional's supervision vs the purely board and train methods. I selected this org bc it was located in my state and was under the impression - I would personally visit onsite and train with my golden weekly. This has given me alot to think about.


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## Atlasdog (Sep 30, 2020)

I know this isn’t a debate about ecollars, but I just wanted to say that we use one. It’s greatly improved the quality of my dog’s life. My brother is a hunter snd recommended a Garmin to us. We never have to go above a 1 or 2 to get his attention when he’s in high drive mode. It’s enabled us to take him off lead to fetch long distances in the park/fields with recall. My dog loves when I put it on him because he knows he’s going running off lead. He absolutely loves it and most days his recall is excellent, but if distracted and in the fields it’s a great reminder to pay heed to his commands.
Also I think the BB have the company that the original poster was talking about an F but I’m not 100% sure. I think finding someone by word of mouth is better. Or contacting the shelter to see who they use.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Atlasdog said:


> We never have to go above a 1 or 2


Tell everyone how painful a 1 or 2 from a Garmin collar is.


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## Atlasdog (Sep 30, 2020)

It definitely doesn’t hurt him, but it does get his attention. It also has a vibrate and tone option. We use neither. We use the tone to see if it’s turned on but not for training. Garmin has a couple good training videos to that I like. He goes nuts if I take his collar out just to charge it. Loves that thing . I’m actually thinking about getting a whistle so he can run farther and have better recall but I don’t know what type to get- any suggestions?


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Atlasdog said:


> I’m actually thinking about getting a whistle so he can run farther and have better recall but I don’t know what type to get- any suggestions?


Something like this for very long range. The megaphone helps protect your ears. still a good idea to plug them when you blow it of wear hearing protection.




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www.gundogsonline.com




For around the yard.




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## Atlasdog (Sep 30, 2020)

Thanks!


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## Dogsport (Mar 8, 2020)

MintChip said:


> I've no idea if it's board and train tbqh. Is this common with therapy dog training or scentwork training? Also are e collars generally used for this specific type of training? Sorry I'm quite the novice. My golden has moderate to high drive but I can tell he is very sensitive. The one time I applied too much pressure during a puppy bitting incident (saw the move on youtube) - he became aggressive at any collar touches thereafter so I'm weary. We've tried out nosework and simple retrievals and he is so driven to work and quick to learn!


No, it’s not common to use board and train. E collars are used for hunting and sometimes for protection work or sports. I’m not sure we are talking about the same thing when we use the term drive. It’s different for different breeds. The dog I work now is a herding breed with some aggression, so the drive I’m taking about is different than what you are saying. My dog now does not retrieve. He does scentwork and tracking. Your dog would not need an ecollar and would not respond well to one. You can train him using rewards and reinforcement. Look for a trainer with a lot of golden experience.


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## Dogsport (Mar 8, 2020)

SRW said:


> Tell everyone how painful a 1 or 2 from a Garmin collar is.


I tested an e collar on my hand and it was not that bad at the levels I use. My feeling is that anyone who won’t or hasn’t used one in a constructive manner should not be telling others whether to use one or not. Until someone has needed one and learned to use it properly with a dog who responds favorably to it, they will not understand the benefits of using one. The same thing holds for, prong collars. People who need them should use them. Most Goldens, if given good early foundation work and are not used for hunting or distance retrieval should not need either type of collar. If someone does need one, they should not be told it’s bad by people on a forum. It’s a personal decision. Dog owners should learn from a professional trainer how to use them properly.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Dogsport said:


> I tested an e collar on my hand and it was not that bad at the levels I use. My feeling is that anyone who won’t or hasn’t used one in a constructive manner should not be telling others whether to use one or not.


For many dogs, especially retrievers with a high desire to please, a verbal reprimand is a more severe correction than a nick from a collar.


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## MintChip (Feb 26, 2021)

Thank you all for your input. I likely will not move forward with that org. Unrelated to the e collar aspect- I have been reading about recent incidents of dog neglect like starvation and heat exhaustion with this org-so I have my doubts. And besides board and train was not what I was looking for. I have reached out to the clubs and have made some progress.


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## Jangala (Aug 31, 2020)

MintChip said:


> Apologies I could not locate any related topics and mods kindly move if not the correct forum.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with above mentioned organization? They have locations all throughout the US. Personally interested in trailing/search/rescue training or therapy dog training. I would defer to what the trainer seems my pup would be the most qualified for-if any. LOL. As I understand-both are tough programs.
> 
> Thank you in advance.


They do not post video of HOW they accomplish their amazing training videos, so I was very suspect. Then learned they use shock collars. Not always great results from online reviews. Yikes.


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## Abi’s Woody (Jun 3, 2020)

.I’ve owned Goldens in the past and I too used an Ecollar for training off lease. we took four separate training classes over the course of his first two years. He was a very stubborn boy at times, running in the street when he broke free of the lead I was holding. Causing me to have back problems from trying to restrain a 85 lb dog. Chasing squirrels across the yard into the street. Running up to say hi to our neighbors, who didn’t like dogs. So for the fear of him being hurt by a car, lost, or worse, I got an ecollar. I totally agree! No person should ever use one unless they have had training on how to use it! The process to train a dog takes time and patience. an E collar isn’t a quick fix, it Will take time! By the time he was three we could go for long walks off lead with no issues. He was the best dog I ever owned, and was a joy to train. I now own a 9 week old boy! And , I will use an e collar again if necessary. By the way, sometimes just putting the collar on my Golden seem to work, his ears managed to get unclogged!


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## Beau-Bear (Jun 2, 2021)

Thank you for sharing. I'm going to buy the Garmin ecollar for my 9 month old. Do you have any suggestions on the brand etc?


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## Abi’s Woody (Jun 3, 2020)

Beau-Bear said:


> Thank you for sharing. I'm going to buy the Garmin ecollar for my 9 month old. Do you have any suggestions on the brand etc?


I purchased the Garmin Sport Pro Tri-Tronics, this unit has a vibe and tone buttons which I really like, if these work you won’t have to use the intensity levels (10). Also the units has lights on it for those nighttime walks. great improvement from my last one for sure.


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## Beau-Bear (Jun 2, 2021)

Ok. I'll look into that one🙂👍


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Abi’s Woody said:


> I purchased the Garmin Sport Pro Tri-Tronics


A very good choice. The transmitter is small and ergonomic and the collars lights, tone and vibrate functions are great.


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## Beau-Bear (Jun 2, 2021)

Abi’s Woody said:


> I purchased the Garmin Sport Pro Tri-Tronics, this unit has a vibe and tone buttons which I really like, if these work you won’t have to use the intensity levels (10). Also the units has lights on it for those nighttime walks. great improvement from my last one for sure.


Thank's Abi's Woody -- I just ordered the Garmin Sport Pro Tri-Tronics from their website! Excited to have this option. It's been sooooooooooo frustrating walking Beau-Bear. He gets overly excited when he sees other dogs and people and pulls, will not obey and completely loses all that he's learned in out training classes. TIME TO TRY A NEW PATH.


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## MintChip (Feb 26, 2021)

Abi’s Woody said:


> I purchased the Garmin Sport Pro Tri-Tronics, this unit has a vibe and tone buttons which I really like, if these work you won’t have to use the intensity levels (10). Also the units has lights on it for those nighttime walks. great improvement from my last one for sure.


Can this operate on tone only? Watched a JRT on hike and owner was using tone to recall him.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

MintChip said:


> Can this operate on tone only?


Yes, tone, vibrate and stimulation are all separate functions controlled by different buttons on the transmitter.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

MintChip said:


> Can this operate on tone only? Watched a JRT on hike and owner was using tone to recall him.


A good idea and how many use it.
Using stimulation only for recall is a very bad idea for a couple reasons.


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## MintChip (Feb 26, 2021)

SRW said:


> A good idea and how many use it.
> Using stimulation only for recall is a very bad idea for a couple reasons.


I'm training my pup on whistle and he's responsive. But I have been seriously considering professional collar training - when his safety is an issue. Ducks and Cranes sitting on a cliff - during a hike - and he thinks he can fly.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

MintChip said:


> I'm training my pup on whistle and he's responsive. But I have been seriously considering professional collar training - when his safety is an issue. Ducks and Cranes sitting on a cliff - during a hike - and he thinks he can fly.


If you hire a pro, hire one to train YOU how to train your dog.
Using an E collar isn’t all that difficult once you understand when and how it should be used.


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