# Problem at puppy class last night



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Oh ... sorry you're having this experience.

How old is she?

Can you sit with her way off to the side, far from the commotion of the class? 

She's fine outside? Maybe start there for a while. Just sit right outside the bldg where she's nice and relaxed. She'll be able to hear what's going in onside, but she won't be in the "scary place." Do that for 10 mins or so (assuming she's calm) then maybe try going just inside the door .. so long as that's not too close to the commotion, try sitting there for a while. Just sit and pet her and let her watch. Don't let other dogs or people come up to her if she's not seeking out the interaction. She sets the pace. If after 15 mins, that's comfortable for her, move to another area and watch from there.

Unless she bounces back and makes this session seem like a fluke (could happen!) I wouldn't want to do all the distractions and stuff -- definitely sounds like too much -- unless you can be quite far away from it.... like waaaaaay on the other side of the room, if the room is large.

When sitting with her, make sure you're as relaxed as possible. Don't stress over her not responding to her name or taking treats. Offer them, but don't try and make her eat. She'll either eat it or she won't. Don't make a big deal of it ("you want it? here... it's chicken... eat it., etc.) Try dropping the treats on the floor. Often, nose-to-ground (needed to sniff for treats) is calming for dogs.
What did the instructor have to say?


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

I think you are a great dog parent and I think your doing a great job with socialization!

Sounds like your little girl is shutting down for whatever reason at dog training. Personally I would take a few steps back and keep things positive. Stay well below her threshold and make simple things really fun and positive. Step it up really slowly and go back if she's showing any discomfort at all. Do something fun in the parking lot of the training centre, for a few days. Throw food near the door for example. Ask the facility whether it's ok for her to go in without the other dogs there. Then ask a dog friend to go in with her and let them play. I would keep all the sessions short. That being said, I would not go back to training quite yet.

Maybe ask for a private session with the trainer if you trust them.

Good luck, I'm sure it'll be fine soon if you keep working on it.


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## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

Is your puppy being normal now? Is there any different behaviour at home? Without knowing how Molly is acting away from the hall, after her upsetting incident I couldn't be sure.... but I would suspect she is going through a bit of a fear period. You haven't said how old she is? I actually wrote a blog entry on fear periods here just the other day, and there is a lot more information around if you don't want to read my poor little contribution anyway. They are something to be aware of when bringing up a puppy. Sometime your pup will react very fearfully to something, not because she is a fearful pup, but because during a 'fear period' they cannot control their fear. What would be completely unscary during a normal period becomes frightening during a fear period. I can't say whether Molly is going through a fear period or not, but it could be something like that, perhaps on a small scale.

I am not sure whether your trainer is right in telling you that you just have to make it fun. Personally I would have taken Molly outside, played around with her for a bit, and then very slowly move towards the door, feeding her treats and playing with her all the way. I may not even make it inside, or if I do get inside with her still happy, maybe not rejoin the group until the following week. Watching the pups from afar may well make her eager to join them the next week.

Assuming you go again (and I would), don't drag her in if she is reluctant... take your time with her, build up her confidence step by step. If you back down and just don't go, it will leave behind fears in her puppyhood that you may find later when she grows up. Whenever you find an irrational fear work at it carefully and gently. Never force.

Oh and practice with umbrellas and hats in many different rooms before you go. Get out the umbrella, and treat her. Open it a tiny bit, treat. A bit more, treat, then slowly open it fully, lots of treats and praise! Same with funny hats etc. Associate yummy things with umbrellas and she'll start wagging whenever she sees one!

Let us know how Molly goes.


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## Molly's Mum (Apr 1, 2011)

Thank you everyone for the feedback. To answer a few questions, she is 15 weeks old today. She is acting normally at home now and has been her normal self all week. Yesterday she was her normal self right up until we got to the training club. If anything I'd say her confidence has improved in the last few days, particularly around people. This week like I said above the little girl running up to her shouting did not frighten Molly whereas she would have backed away behind me a few weeks ago. We walked in the park yesterday afternoon and lots of people stopped to pet her. She was very confident and happy about that. One gentleman was on a mobility scooter which is something she hasn't seen up close yet and she was fine. I have been opening umbrellas and wearing big floppy hats at home as I remember someone here suggesting doing things like this, been doing that periodically since about 8 weeks when she came home. She sees kids sooters and bikes a lot, watched a group of boys playing football (soccer) yesterday in the park and was happy with that. The fear or problem behaviour appears to be isolated to this hall in particular. Part way through the lesson I took Molly outside as I wanted to make sure she didn't need to toilet and perhaps that was why she was so intent on getting out the door. She didn't need to go, she had been before we left home. Outside she seemed happy enough and sniffed around. When we returned to the entrance of the hall she hesitated but on offering her a treat she walked in, soon as the door closed she returned to the behaviour. I can't leave the door open as there are other puppies in the class doing off leash work and it wouldn't be safe if one of them bolted outside.

It's a little early in the morning still but I'm going to phone later and see if I can hire the hall for an hour and take Molly there on her own just for some play time inside the hall. It's council owned and I think might be able to hire it by the hour but that I need to check. Otherwise I'll speak to the training club and see if Molly can watch a lesson next week. Because the hall isn't huge they normally don't allow us into the hall until it's our lesson. 

The trainer just said that I need to make the session fun for Molly to help her overcome whatever it is that's concerning her. She said to use a jolly voice and offer her treats and toys trying to coax her along. I'm doing that but it doesn't seem to be making the slightest bit of difference because Molly barely notices that I'm even there, she's so focused on that door. I agree that we need to make the session fun for her, and this is why I'm fretting about next weeks lesson with umbrellas etc. She'll probably be okay with an umbrella because I've done that at home but I have no idea what other owners will be bringing with them and there could be something that she is frightened of. I don't feel now is the time to expose her to new scary objects until she feels comfortable in the hall again.


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## Molly's Mum (Apr 1, 2011)

Lyssa, thanks for the link. I've read through it. Molly is fine with me before and after the puppy class at home and out on walks, she doesn't seem to have a fear or problem towards me like Sue and Syn. She happily comes to me when I call her, especially if there's a treat on offer. I think I need to work on a de-sensitising strategy as you mention for service dogs. I'd like Molly to overcome this so that we can continue with puppy class, she will gain so much from it if we can continue. If I can hire the hall for one-on-one time with me and Molly hopefully I can show her that the hall isn't a scary place to be and she doens't need to bolt out of it as the earliest possible opportunity.


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## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

Yeah the umbrellas and other things could be a problem, the umbrellas still despite the work you've done (which is good) because dogs just don't generalise well and may not realise it's the same thing when someone else opens it in a very different place - especially a place of which she is scared. So get other people in the family to open one in as many places as possible. It's like if you only teach a dog to sit indoors, when you ask for a sit outdoors they won't have a clue what you're talking about.

It's a real shame you can't have the door open during the session, but of course if the puppies are loose you can't. It's a great idea to try to hire the hall. Working on her behaviour without the commotion would be a great first step, if you can get her happy to be there first, maybe take her very very favourite food or something? Often people use cooked chicken with a touch of garlic for when the big guns are needed, like getting over phobias.... garlic engages the nose in a big way and helps distract them from that fear response. If you see her stressing out, just waft the foot in front of her nose to distract and turn her to you, without actually feeding until you have her attention. You need big yummy food though, if she is pretty anxious.

You seem to be going about it all in the right way though, making sure she is well socialised is so important so well done on that.

Edit: Glad the link was useful, yep you just need to show her the hall is a nice place to be, I mean she knew it before. Oh, and another thing I'd suggest is don't talk to her too much when she is showing fear, as soon as she shows some bravery praise heaps. A mistake some people make is to almost 'praise' their dogs fear because they are feeling so sorry for them, which actually makes it continue. Pat gently, quietly, but don't cramp her - having said that you may be doing it right already but thought I'd mention it.


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## Molly's Mum (Apr 1, 2011)

Okay, just got off the phone to the dog training club. The venue is not council owned. The dog club have put me in touch with the venue owner and they'll be phoning back so that I can book the hall for an hour. I also discussed what happened with Molly last night and will be keeping in touch with the dog club to see how things go. Once I get a feel for how Molly is at the hall on our own I'll decide what to do next, I might need to hire the hall again for play sessions until she's happy to be there.

Thanks for the advice about not "praising" her for nervous behaviour. Honestly, last night I just wanted to sit quietly with her and let her take it at her own pace. She clearly wasn't listening to me so there seemed little point in calling her name over and over trying to offer her treats that clearly she wasn't interested in. I'll try the garlic on chicken. I had chicken, cheese and liver last night - all three things she's crazy about but I'll add some garlic onto the chicken and see if that helps.


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## Tanyac (Jun 18, 2008)

What a shame you had such a disasterous puppy class 

I remember one of mine had a similar reaction - it was caused by the metal chairs banging on the ground and then the final straw was when they rolled up the metal shutters where the kitchen opened onto the hall!

I would think that the echoey nature of most of these halls will amplify the barking of the other dogs - another reason to want "out!"

I have always found that the best way to deal with this is to ignore them. Any comfort gestures from you will just make them think there IS something to be frightened of. She is restrained by the lead, so she can't flee - therefore the panic increases in her mind, leading to all out panic!

If you sit quietly while she's having her little panic, only use a treat if she looks to you. She needs to learn that YOU are the source of everything... 

It would be a good idea to try the hall when it's empty, but I'd be willing to guess it was something as simple as the chairs banging which triggered it.

Frustrating for sure, but I'm sure she'll get over it in time. Good luck


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## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

Just so you know - with garlic you don't need much, obviously partly because a dog's nose is pretty great at detecting things so only need a rub of it, and partly because it isn't good for dogs in high amounts. It is said not to feed dogs onion - garlic has some of the same chemical compounds although in lesser amounts. Garlic isn't usually on "don't feed" lists, but it's better to be safe and just use a bit. I know some trainers use quite a bit without issues though.

Sad that she was ignoring both you and normally loved food in her efforts to get to the door, she must have been really unhappy.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Sorry you are experiencing this and wish I had some really great advice for you .. but I am unsure how you can make it fun for a frightened pup going into shut down mode. I think I would definitely sit out the class if my dog was reacting like this the next time (as FlyingQuizini mentioned it may have been a fluke) and if I returned, it would be to sit on the far fringes or the class, and I would definitely not do anything to further startle her like umbrellas. 

I guess I would need to know what you are looking for out of the class - if it is a confident and happy puppy, this class may not be the best choice. I usually wait until my pups are older before introducing things that may frighten them (or younger pups who are still in the fearless stages).


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## Molly's Mum (Apr 1, 2011)

Thought I'd update on our problem and see what advice and thoughts other people have. I took Molly along to the hall this morning, I hired it for an hour. We got to the car park and got out, we parked on the opposite side of the hall today as it's business hours and needed to use a different car park from the usual one. Molly at first didn't kinow where we were but as soon as we spotted the hall I could tell she recognised it as she pulled ahead a little and rushed straight up to the door. There was no sign at all that she was apprehensive about being there. If anything it was the opposite and she was rushing to get there.

As we were a little early we took a walk around the car park and walked over to the opposite side of the building where we usually park. All was fine, no problems that I could tell. She happily sniffed around, had a wee and ate the treats that I offered her. She'd come to me when I call her. A train came past (the car park backs onto the railway tracks) and she backed away, a little nervous but nothing drastic. Afterwards she ate some more treats from me and continued to walk and sniff about.

A parking warden came over to us and he said hello to Molly and we stood there chatting for a while, he has two springers. Molly was fine with him and happily sat in the shade whilst we chatted, I fed her treats every so often as she was being very good sitting quietly. Another train came past, we were a little further away from the tracks where we were talking, Molly stood up looking alert and watched the train go by. I pretty much ignored her as didn't want to make a big deal out of the train and she settled back down once the train had gone. Fed her more treats at random intervals for being good and quiet.

The lady arrived to open the hall and we walked in. Molly was a little hesitant walking through the door but she did it without any fuss. I took her leash off and we spent some time in the hall off leash. She spent a lot of time running over to the door (which was closed) barking at it and then trotting back to me. I had taken my clicker with me and each time she stopped looking at the door and moved towards me I clicked and tossed a treat which she ate. We got to a point where Molly was spending a lot more time around me and less time looking at the door, yay. We played together with her toys and did a bit of hide and seek games which she loves.

What I did notice with it being quieter in the hall without the puppy class in full swing was that each time a train came past (about every 10 minutes) it rumbled the building (prefab type building) and there was a faint vibrating feeling in the floor. I hadn't noticed this during puppy class but perhaps Molly does as I'm sure her senses are better than mine. Each time the train came past Molly immediately ran to the door and sat there barking at it. Even when we'd got to the point of her playing with me and seeming fairly relaxed in the hall towards the end of our session she still ran to the door when the train went past.

I also still think the scraping of the chair that last week didn't help her and with that in mind I'm still very concerned about this weeks class where we'll be introducing the puppies to scary sights and sounds. I don't feel she's ready for this sort of experience in this particular hall. Done in the park or in a building that she's comfortable in yes, but not this hall just yet.

My conclusion is that she's not upset by the other people or dogs at puppy class. I know she's confident everywhere else with strange dogs and people and she's confident outside with these same dogs and owners. I'm not sure if it's the hall that she's nervous of, I know the sound or feel of the train rumbling past upsets her. I don't think she's realising that the rumbling sound is a train. I think she's just thinking it's something scary that she can't see and make sense of.

Today was an improvement because at puppy class she sat at the door and refused to do anything else at all. Today after a bit of work she was intereacting with me apart from when the rumbling happened. It didn't take her long after the rumble to get herself together and come back to play or take treats.

So I guess my question to myself now is do I continue with this puppy class, what are we going to gain from it and what might I make worse by pursuing it.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

I would keep up with the classes, over time she will 'desensitize' to the noise and vibration of the floor as you noted she is recovering fairly quickly - you want to reward that. Perhaps spend some time in the parking lot, heavily reinforcing her as the train approaches until it is gone - creating a positive association. During class she is likely a little stressed already, so the sound/vibration is a little more intense (scarier) for her. If the trains are passing on a schedule try to start reinforcing her before the train starts going by and keep reinforcing while the train goes by.


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## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

Yep, I would stuff her full of treats whenever a train goes by and make it really fun. Who knows, those vibrations could have contributed a good amount to her fear last session. Why it didn't before, who knows - perhaps a mini fear period type thing made it scary when it wasn't before and now she has to shake that association.

I would go, she may be fine this time after the work you've done and with the distraction of other dogs, you just don't know until you get there. However if things start going like they were last week I would either withdraw to the edges of the hall, or even leave. Make sure you are relaxed about the upcoming class though, Molly will be able to sense if you are worried about her getting scared again. Take a moment to spend some time with her beforehand just breathing and de-stressing, assuming you have time. It could make a big difference.

It sounds like you used your clicker effectively to get her to focus on you and not the door. I'd actually click when the train is going past if she isn't barking/looking worried etc, and then give her a jackpot of treats! Then maybe finish it with a tug of war or something. Too bad they don't come when you want them for more effective training heh.

Let us know how the next puppy class goes.


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## Molly's Mum (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks for your thoughts  I will go along on Wed evening and see how it goes.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Wow, you are doing a great job with her. I bet you the trains and vibrations really it. 

Please let us know how things go next class.


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## Molly's Mum (Apr 1, 2011)

Puppy class tonight was better than last week but still the problem is there. Molly was happy enough outside with the other dogs and happily walked into the hall. Trainer pulled us aside and we discussed clicker training with Molly and I explained how our session alone in the hall went on Monday. I had my clicker with me so I used that during tonight's class. We joined in with the activities and Molly did okay with them, occasionally she'd forget that she was nervous of the hall and would give me focus and do what I asked, but then she'd have her moments of wanting to pull towards the door. It was an improvement on the last class where she wouldn't even look at me so we made a step in the right direction.

When the scary noisy activity was planned we agreed that Molly and I should sit some distance away and if she didn't seem to be coping I'd leave the hall with her and wait outside. Well she didn't like it one little bit and was jumping up at the door wanting to get out. She lost all interest in my treats or clicker so I took her outside to wait it out. After it quietened down we went back inside and she seemed okay, a little agitated but she did run over to greet another dog and have a drink of water. The class was finished for the evening and we had to leave.

I feel a little upset because Molly has failed the puppy class (if she wasn't able to tolerate the scary bit it means a fail for her). I didn't know it was possible to fail a puppy class and never in a million years expected when I booked the class that she would fail this early on in her training  She can do all the commands expected for the class, she is confidently sociable with other dogs and people, anywhere else she can handle new sights and sounds and scary things fairly well, she can get spooked but recovers fairly quickly unlike when she is inside this hall. It's just this hall that's proving an obstacle for us.

I feel so frustrated and disappointed, not with Molly because I know she's a clever puppy who really tries hard and learns quickly, but just frustrated that something about this hall has her anxious and it's hindering her from showing how good she is.

We have two more sessions of puppy class. I might go along to the one next week but will skip the last one when certificates are awarded. I have Molly booked into a beginners obedience class with another training club in October. It's a club that has come highly recommended and I'm hoping that perhaps a new location and a little maturity (Molly will be 7 months then) might make a difference. Until then I'll continue training by myself and socialising at every opportunity.

Anyway, here is a photo of Molly this week being a good girl practicing her "wait" command


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Have you talked to your instructor in this class about Molly's reactions? I don't think I would skip the last classes, you should use every opportunity to expose her to things to help her be more confident.


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## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

Failing a puppy class?? That's just dumb. Talk about instilling competitiveness from the beginning. You'd think it'd just be about giving the pups the best start at life...they all mature at different rates too at that age, so 'failing' is just very silly. A month could very well make a huge amount of different in your case, and in other pups, they would have 'failed'. Pass/fail just takes away from it being purely for the good of the pups, and mucks with the humans mind! Anyway, cease rant.

I don't think you should feel frustrated and disappointed. I think the fact that there was significant improvement between the sessions is great, I mean from your description of last week focus inside was a complete impossibility. As you said it seems only to be this hall, perhaps something with the train outside, and she seems to be confronting that fear and dealing with it - helped by you. I think you should be proud of the work you have done with her, and the improvement. It's probably that stupid 'fail' that means you can't see that properly.

I would definitely go to the next class. It's important to try to get over any doggy fears when you find them or they can linger in a dogs mind and come out later in another place. So look at it as another opportunity to improve her reactions to the place as well as to work with Molly. As for the last session, I can understand your reluctance to go.

Since you are doing some good clicker work I would really recommend the Training Levels by Susan Ailsby. She has just brought out books to cover them (new levels), or you can follow the old levels for free online. She is my favourite clicker trainer. She has a great blog covering the training of her latest puppy Syn, on that same site.

By the way, Molly is gorgeous. So cute, trying so hard not to give in. I used to put treats on my last dogs nose, he'd be just about going cross eyed... the funniest thing was when I would allow him to eat them, he didn't ever really sort out a good strategy for getting it off neatly.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

I would try a different place, one that's positive reinforcement too.

Please keep us updated.


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## Molly's Mum (Apr 1, 2011)

mylissyk, yes I have discussed this with the trainer. We talked about clicker training and she basically said that we have to make being in the hall as positive an experience for Molly as possible. The clicker definitely does help to make Molly focus more on me and the training rather than think about "oooh scary hall" but she has lapses and I feel there is a long way to go still. She said that Molly could come along to another puppy class later in the year on the day they do the noisy test and see if she copes, if she does then she'll pass and be awarded her certificate. But this is the last puppy course for a while now so there's going to be a big gap before we'll have the opportunity to retake this test. If we continue at this club I'd book her into a whole new 8 week session rather than take one test. I don't feel a single test a few months in the future is going to be helpful and really it's not about getting a certificate saying "pass" on it, it's about making Molly confident and comfortable in the hall. I feel we're going to need weeks rather than one session to get to that point.

I hadn't planned on staying at this particular club for our long term training, it was more a stop-gap to give Molly exposure to socialising until the beginners course at this other club comes up in October. So now do I cancel the course in October at the other club and try to get over problems here first or do I finish this course, hope for the best, and move on to the new club making a fresh start? 

lyssa, thanks for the link, I have book marked it and will start reading through it.


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## aerolor (May 27, 2011)

Molly's Mum said:


> mylissyk, yes I have discussed this with the trainer. We talked about clicker training and she basically said that we have to make being in the hall as positive an experience for Molly as possible. The clicker definitely does help to make Molly focus more on me and the training rather than think about "oooh scary hall" but she has lapses and I feel there is a long way to go still. She said that Molly could come along to another puppy class later in the year on the day they do the noisy test and see if she copes, if she does then she'll pass and be awarded her certificate. But this is the last puppy course for a while now so there's going to be a big gap before we'll have the opportunity to retake this test. If we continue at this club I'd book her into a whole new 8 week session rather than take one test. I don't feel a single test a few months in the future is going to be helpful and really it's not about getting a certificate saying "pass" on it, it's about making Molly confident and comfortable in the hall. I feel we're going to need weeks rather than one session to get to that point.
> 
> I hadn't planned on staying at this particular club for our long term training, it was more a stop-gap to give Molly exposure to socialising until the beginners course at this other club comes up in October. So now do I cancel the course in October at the other club and try to get over problems here first or do I finish this course, hope for the best, and move on to the new club making a fresh start?
> 
> lyssa, thanks for the link, I have book marked it and will start reading through it.


Molly sounds a bit like my pup Bonnie. She is about a month behind Molly and I think she will be gentle and sensitive. I also think you shouldn't worry too much - when things get competitive to the extent of faiing a puppy class I think it becomes ridiculous and the fun goes out of it. It may be that Molly is homing in on your apprehension as well. You may find that with another class things are very different. Growing up doesn't happen overnight anyway and all dogs develop at different rates - she probably excels in other areas where some of the other pups may struggle. I think I would take things a bit slower and try another training establishment. Best wishes.


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## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

Hi fellow townie! Oh yikes, no competition, please move, theres no debate! The other club is very highly recommended and thought of, not everything is right for everyone and this hall just isnt right for Mollys positive reinforcement of all you want her to achive. Its back to putting her in a situation where you almost know you are setting her up to fail but keep battling to try to change it anyway whilst in fact giving more reason each time to be even more phobic but you dont realise in the turmoil in trying to help her beat it! 
I understand you removing her,...but...you are also rewarding her...you are saying ok then...each time you react this way you will get what you want...so you will never beat the problem! Its the same when you reassure and comfort, its saying to her there is something to be scared of, confirming shes right to be freaked. Its hard not to though, I know! Its a vicious circle there fore if you cannot keep her in there when she is stressing there is no argument to keeping her at that particular club. She gets spooked in the hall, the hall has made her fail...in their eyes anyway...you are both unhappy...and you have paid for that with hard earned money! lol! I would say walk away...have fun with your lovely pup and continue with all you have learnt at home and out in the big world where its far more important than a hall...and look forward to a fresh start in September. Chester didnt make it to any and hes not on an ASBO yet...theres still time, haha, but in fact people comment on how great he is for an adolescent! Uhumm..apart from his hormonal urges of course!! Boys eh! :doh: Sending you a hug. Training class should have been a fun time, not this, I hope its a happier time in September.


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## Molly's Mum (Apr 1, 2011)

She is a sensitive girl, but such a honey as she is gentle and polite, never one to jump up at people to greet them or barge her way through a door knocking everyone out the way. She does have her moments of being full of energy and a bit rambunctious but on the whole she is a pleasure to be with. Until last night I didn't realise there was a pass or possibility not to pass with this class. The trainers haven't said to me that Molly has failed, that word wasn't used but I guess that's my intepretation of it, if she hasn't passed and going to be awarded a certificate then what do you call it. I had been happy to attend the training sessions for experience and a socialising opportunity, when the trainer mentioned that Molly won't be awarded her certificate at the end if she couldn't pass the noise test I was a bit lost for words to be honest. It isn't something I had given any thought to and was the last thing I wanted to think about last night.


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## Molly's Mum (Apr 1, 2011)

Hey elly  Thanks for your thoughts. I think you're right that we're not having fun here with this class anymore. It started off well and I don't know where it's gone wrong. You make a lot of sense saying that I'm setting her up to fail by keep taking her back to a place where I know she's not happy. My gut instinct is telling me not to take her back again, to work on clicker training at home and then start a new class at the other club as a fresh start and hopefully she won't transfer her fear of being inside a hall from this club to the new one. If we do encounter problems at the new club I am confident there will be good supportive help on hand to get us through any problems there.


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## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

It sounds like this new club would be a good place for Molly. I could be wrong, but from what you said the trainer at your current puppy class didn't seem to be much help with Molly beside saying you need to make it fun/positive for her. 'Fun' doesn't cut through fear, I would have expected specific techniques to try from her. Unless you just didn't really mention all that was said.

I'd probably just go to the one more week, and then leave that place and start at the new club when their courses start. Puppy classes with a pass/fail system tells you a lot! Get to a place where you have lots of support IMO, and concentrate on training her yourself until then.

As for removing her from a situation when she is finding it difficult, I think that is fine - so long as you don't go all "oh poor puppy" over her, stroking her and getting all upset yourself. That *would* come across as encouragement. If you remove her for a short while and let her calm down and then systematically start working on overcoming whatever fears may have come up, then I think moving away is a *good* thing. You should always work a dog under threshold, ie before they go a bit bananas. If they really can't focus then you've done something wrong and should get out of there. Of course if you were to never work at beating a dog's fears and every time it was scared you just let it run away, and indeed helped it run away, then of course that wouldn't be a good thing - but letting a dog stay in a situation where it is petrified isn't good either, with the understanding that you will help it slowly overcome that fear. Anyway, that's what I believe.

Good luck with the lovely Molly and whatever you decide. BTW I love that headshot photo of her lying upside down grinning at the camera looking like a toothy rabbit.


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## Molly's Mum (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks lyssa, that's pretty much all the trainer said the session the previous week, to make it fun for her. This is one of the reasons I decided to hire the hall on Monday, to spend some time playing with Molly in there trying to make it a relaxed place to be. Last night she said that we need to make it a positive experience for Molly being there and we discussed the clicker training. I explained what I'd done in the hall on our own on the Monday with the clicker. We also talked about using the clicker in last night's session and she gave me some guidance on clicking to keep her focused on me. She explained that a dog can't concentrate on the clicker and experience the emotion of fear at the same time which seemed to make some sense as Molly was doing one or the other during the session last night i.e. either focusing on the clicker and me or completely ignoring the clicker and me and focusing on the door. One of the exercises was to swap dogs with a partner and have each take the other person's dog weaving through some cones and then walking back in a straight line all to heel. I swapped dogs with the trainer so she took Molly through the exercise. She was good at keeping Molly's attention, using the clicker and a jolly voice to encourage her along. But Molly did also pull towards the door with her, she had a similar mixed attention from Molly like I was getting. It was nice for me to watch how she handled Molly. Whether or not the trainer is good I don't know, she's very nice and kind and didn't once make me feel stupid or like any of this is was caused by me. But as I've never really done training with a dog before I have no one else to compare against. The lessons are fairly short and the class is quite big so I appreciate that she can't spend all her time focusing on us and not the others. In fairness though last night she did spend time talking to me and had her assistant continue with the class whilst we talked. She also spent some time with Molly during that exercise.

When we needed to leave the session I didn't say anything to Molly, we simply walked outside and closed the door behind us. Once she calmed down and sat quietly outside I started to click and treat moving on to clicking and treating only when she turned to face me or look at me. I was standing quite close to the door and of course she had her back facing away from the door now wanting to get away but also there were some dogs outside waiting for the next class to start so her focus was on them. I wouldn't let her go over to them though as I didn't want to reward her leaving the hall with meeting lots of new dogs which is something she appears to enjoy doing. After the noisy bit finished we did go back inside again clicking and treating for going back indoors, after leaving properly at the end of class I allowed Molly to greet the dogs waiting outside.


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## lyssa (Mar 1, 2011)

Well the fact she is nice and kind is worth its weight in gold, whether or not she is a fantastic dog trainer. Apparently the reason the clicker and really any cue trained by clicker completely distracts from fear is because it turns on the taste/smell centres of the dogs brain. For some reason a dog finds it incredibly hard to smell, or to even think about smelling and be afraid at the same time. Very handy for clicker trainers!

BTW my husband is a Brit and we got married just near Durham only two months ago. I always see sooooo many goldens around every time I go over there.


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## Molly's Mum (Apr 1, 2011)

That's really interesting and pretty much what the trainer was trying to explain to me. It would make sense because when Molly had her worst week she wasn't interested in any of the treats I had, almost like she couldn't smell them and was unaware to them being there, she was completely ignoring them. With the clicker last night it was better and she was taking the treats a lot more than the previous week.

Congrats on your recent marriage  Goldens are very popular here, not only do I see so many but also a lot of the people I chat to who don't have a dog with them will say that they used to own a golden.


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## BajaOklahoma (Sep 27, 2009)

I wouldn't worry too much about whether she "passes" puppy class. Your focus is getting her used to different sights, smells, pets, people, and experiences.

Do you have a "quiet" home? If so, try leaving the TV on most of the time, at a normal sound level. Try to get her around elementary age kids - they make unexpected noises at times. Or there are cds intended for desensitization - start them out at a low volume and gradually increase the volume over weeks.

For focus, we "primed" Banker for each time he looked at me. Several times a day, I would spend 5 minutes asking Banker to "watch me." Each time he looked at my face, he got a treat. I used a piece of dry kitten food as it is high in protein (the high fat isn't great, but when I use a piece at a time he doesn't get much). And I would do it on his walks too. It really made a difference in his classes. And I still practice it, though now th treats come at random times.


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## Molly's Mum (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks for the suggestions BajaOklahoma  Our home is quiet during the working day but with a 9 year old and a 12 year old Molly is exposed to all the sorts of noises and sights you get from having children in the home once they get home from school. Skateboards, scooters, bicycles, lots of running, laughing, excited talking etc. My daughter has friends visit most weekends so she gets an extra dose of kiddy play at the weekends too. Her breeder had grandchildren visit the home most weekends and I know she said that a CD was played so the puppies were used to different noises.

Re the focus thing. I've started doing that with Molly in the last week after we had the problem at puppy class. In fact I've just been out with her now to a park that has trains running by every 10 minutes. We kept a fair distance from the tracks, about 50 meters away and worked on her looking at and watching me. Whilst there were no trains she did great, even had so much focus between us we didn't notice a large black dog running up to us and it was only when he was almost on top of Molly that we both noticed him. When the trains went past she lost her focus on me and watched the trains but very quickly recovered, looked at me and was rewarded with a click and lots of treats. I'm going to make this particular park our routine walk most mornings and do similar exercises with her.

The clicker is wonderful. I bought it when we first got Molly but didn't use it much as didn't really have the need. But now I'm using it more I'm realising just how useful it is to have and work with.


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