# Food Recommendation



## jrust28 (Nov 20, 2012)

I am looking into switching Sandi's food. She just turned 9 years old. How important is it that she is on senior food? I also need a recommendation on a good, healthy, food for her. I am currently feeding her Beneful, which I now know is not the best. I can't afford to spend tons a money a month on some of the more expensive dog foods, but I am at a place financially that I can buy her something better than Beneful. I just want to help her live the longest, best life possible. There are just so many options. It's a tad overwhelming! :doh:

I have been looking into Nutro, but don't know the difference between Max and Natural Choice. Any opinions on this brand are welcome as well as any other help you can give. Thanks in advance!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

*** The difference is you have more "natural" sounding ingredients in Natural Choice. Max is the cheaper or more economic bag in their lineup. I do believe that Max is a heckova lot better than Beneful (no named meats on their bags? could be anything?). *** One thing I should mention - the senior kibble is geared towards dogs with slower moving metabolisms. If your dog is still very active and about as trim and fit as a younger dog, you may consider keeping her on a regular dog food.  

Max (Senior) 

Chicken Meal, Ground Whole Wheat, Wheat Flour, Ground Rice, Rice Bran, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Corn Gluten Meal, Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Natural Flavors, Fish Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Sunflower Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Soybean Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Salt, Taurine, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Ferrous Sulfate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), L-Carnitine, Potassium Iodide, Copper Sulfate, Niacin Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Manganous Oxide, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Vitamin A Supplement, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Rosemary Extract.

Natural Choice (Senior)

Chicken, Chicken Meal (source of Glucosamine and Chondroitin Sulfate), Whole Brown Rice, Brewers Rice, Rice Bran, Whole Grain Oatmeal, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Pea Protein, Natural Flavor, Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Sunflower Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Soybean Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Fish Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Salt, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Sulfate, Niacin Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B2), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Copper Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Selenium Yeast, Biotin, Manganese Proteinate, Vitamin A Supplement, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Decaffeinated Green Tea Extract, Spearmint Extract


Beneful (regular) -

Ground yellow corn, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, whole wheat flour, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), rice flour, beef, soy flour, water, meat and bone meal, propylene glycol, sugar, tricalcium phosphate, phosphoric acid, salt, animal digest, potassium chloride, sorbic acid (a preservative), dried peas, dried carrots, calcium propionate (a preservative), choline chloride, l-Lysine monohydrochloride, Vitamin E supplement, zinc sulfate, red 40, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, yellow 6, yellow 5, Vitamin A supplement, blue 2, calcium carbonate, copper sulfate, Vitamin B-12 supplement, brewers dried yeast, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin D-3 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite.


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

My 2 goldens are on Nutro Ultra. When I had my old girl, I asked my vet about switching my her to Ultra Senior when she was 14 and the vet said as long as her kidneys were fine, determined by her senior bloodwork, then she was fine to stay on the Ultra LBA formula. When she got really old 16.5, she was switched back to Ultra LBP to give her more calories and protein-her kidneys were still fine. If she is healthy and active, there is no reason to switch her to senior. If I had to pick, I would pick the Natural Choice version.


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## jrust28 (Nov 20, 2012)

Another question, is it super important to feed a large breed formula? 

I'm also curious about Nature's Recipe. Anyone use this?


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

I don't think there is a large difference between the large breed adult and adult foods. I think it is more a marketing strategy in the adult formulas. My guess would be there is more glucosamine and chondrotin, and possibly omega acids in the large breed forumla's. But mine already get omega supplements and when they reach 7 years, I start them on Sasha's blend for joint health.

Large Breed Adult Dry Dog Food 

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (min.)24.00%Crude Fat (min.)12.00%Crude Fiber (max.)4.00%Moisture (max.)10.00%Arginine (min.)1.00%Lysine (min.)1.00%Calcium (min.)1.00%Calcium (max.)1.50%Phosphorus (min.)0.60%
Phosphorus (max.)1.50%Zinc (min.)250 mg/kgVitamin E (min.)400 IU/kgAscorbic Acid 
(source of Vitamin C) (min.)*60 mg/kgTaurine (min.)*0.09%L-Carnitine (min.)*50 mg/kgBeta Carotene (min.)*0.50 mg/kgChondroitin Sulfate (min.)*400 mg/kg
Glucosamine (min.)* 300 mg/kgOmega 6 Fatty Acids (min.)*3.60%Omega 3 Fatty Acids

Adult Dog Holistic Dry Dog Food

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (min.)25.00%Crude Fat (min.)13.00%Crude Fiber (max.)4.00%Moisture (max.)10.00%Arginine (min.)1.00%Lysine (min.)1.00%Calcium (min.)0.7%Phosphorus (min.)0.6%
Zinc (min.)250 mg/kgVitamin E (min.)400 IU/kgTaurine (min.)*0.09%Ascorbic Acid 
(source of Vitamin C) (min.)*60 mg/kgL-Carnitine (min.)*50 mg/kgBeta Carotene (min.)*0.50 mg/kgChondroitin Sulfate (min.)*300 mg/kg
Glucosamine (min.)*200 mg/kgOmega 6 Fatty Acids (min.)*3.60%Omega 3 Fatty Acids (min.)*0.30%
*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.

These are the different nutrient levels in the regular and large breed versions of my food.


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## desi.n.nutro (Mar 18, 2011)

Max is the only premium food on the market with a price point of a grocery brand. By premium I mean real chicken as the #1 ingredient, no ground yellow corn, and natural. Large Breed dogs are considered seniors after 7. Senior foods by Nutro have ingredients that promote heart health and preserve joint health as well as special attention to the skin and coat. It also contains increased antioxidants. In the Natural Choice line there is a Large Breed Senior specific food that has reduced calories like the other senior foods but does this without reducing protein. Our Large Breed Seniors usually stay more active than their smaller counterparts so Nutro keeps the protein up for energy and increases ingredients that promote healthy muscles and joints. I would like to add that Nutro is the only food with the guarantee to improve the skin and coat. Nutro makes all their own foods (kibble and canned) in their own US facilities and has AFIA safety assurance due to over 600 quality and safety checks at each facility, each day.


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## artbuc (Apr 12, 2009)

desi.n.nutro said:


> Max is the only premium food on the market with a price point of a grocery brand. By premium I mean real chicken as the #1 ingredient, no ground yellow corn, and natural. Large Breed dogs are considered seniors after 7. Senior foods by Nutro have ingredients that promote heart health and preserve joint health as well as special attention to the skin and coat. It also contains increased antioxidants. In the Natural Choice line there is a Large Breed Senior specific food that has reduced calories like the other senior foods but does this without reducing protein. Our Large Breed Seniors usually stay more active than their smaller counterparts so Nutro keeps the protein up for energy and increases ingredients that promote healthy muscles and joints. I would like to add that Nutro is the only food with the guarantee to improve the skin and coat. Nutro makes all their own foods (kibble and canned) in their own US facilities and has AFIA safety assurance due to over 600 quality and safety checks at each facility, each day.


1. What is "real" chicken?

2. What is wrong with ground corn?

3. What does "natural" mean?

4. Do you really believe Nutro has special properties compared to any other premium kibble which improves skin/coat or do you believe the Nutro skin/coat guarantee is just a marketing gimmick?

5. Was Nutro making their own food in their own plants with 600 quality and safety checks when product was recalled due to melamine and shredded plastic? 

6. Do you pay this forum to advertise?


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## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

I've not personally used Nutro, but I would personally rather use it over Beneful.  

I understand a budget too--so some other options are Purina One (step up from Beneful, still reasonably priced and easy to get) and also Pro Plan (a step up from there).


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

@Artbuc - at least Desi isn't hiding her affiliations with Nutro.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

If you have to stick within a budget, there is no better option than Victor. I would also recommend the Signature Series from Black Gold. You should be able to find those where you live. You will find both at or less than Nutro and they are vastly superior foods.

These are both sold at feed stores, where you will get a great price.

SportMIX Premium 28/16 and Pro Pac Adult Chunk are also really good options. These are made by the same company that makes Earthborn. 

Nutro is one step up from hog feed.

You don't need a senior food but keep the fat around 15% and protein 25% ish or higher.


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## artbuc (Apr 12, 2009)

Megora said:


> @Artbuc - at least Desi isn't hiding her affiliations with Nutro.


This forum is extremely helpful to many people, including me. It would immediately cease and desist if employees from the literally hundreds of dog food companies starting using it to hawk their products. I strongly object to it and will continue to do so.


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

I personally avoid foods with plant protein boosters such as Nutro and generally do not feed senior specific foods.

Precise makes a really good, reasonably priced food.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Garfield said:


> I personally avoid foods with plant protein boosters such as Nutro and generally do not feed senior specific foods.
> 
> Precise makes a really good, reasonably priced food.


Good one.....there is a national bonus bag deal for 44lb for $42.99.

Precise Foundation

Another good food is Exclusive, owned by Land O Lakes. You can get Exclusive at any feed store that sells the old Purina Mills line.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

artbuc said:


> This forum is extremely helpful to many people, including me. It would immediately cease and desist if employees from the literally hundreds of dog food companies starting using it to hawk their products. I strongly object to it and will continue to do so.


I meant what I said - at least she is honest about who she is and what she does. As this forum allows people to post anonymously, no telling if the people who only engage in food related threads and that's to endorse or bash food, and it's debatable even whether they own dogs since they provide no pictures, names, or anything... are only pet owners and have no affiliations.


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## jrust28 (Nov 20, 2012)

So I am getting the impression that many people do not like Nutro either. So what do you recommend?


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## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

Personally I would switch foods because I really think that is one of the worst. One if the dog food it multi-colored it is all chemicals. Then the ingredients do not list anything that states their is any meat source at all. Chicken byproduct meal is the pieces and parts left after the breast and white meat is removed from the chicken. After all the good stuff is harvested for the human food industry, the byproducts remain. Beaks, feet, feathers, wattles and combs are chicken byproducts. There could be something beneficial thrown in, like the heart or gizzard, but because there's such potential for undesirable pieces and parts in 'byproducts,' it's better to avoid them altogether. I would find a better adult formula. The only real difference in some of the senior food is they add Glucosamine and Conjointment. If your dog doesn't seem to have joint issues then it is not needed. I personally wouldn't give it to them until need as it will not be as affective later. If so then do have issues then you can by it over the counter at a pharmacy and add a small amount yourself. Start small and add as the years go by and if they need more. As far as as calorie changes you can control that with the amount you feed.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

Might I suggest looking at Dr. Karen Becker's site at MercolaPets. She has some great videos on choosing a quality dog food. She does not list brand but shows people what to look for in biologically appropriate foods. 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

BilJac, Eukanuba Adult Main., and ProPlan are a few others that are readily avail, comparatively affordable, with similar ingredient lists to what the OP is currently feeding that dogs do well on.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

jrust28 said:


> So I am getting the impression that many people do not like Nutro either. So what do you recommend?


You are lucky to live in a place where good old fashioned feed stores still exist. Given that, plus the fact you want a good value I would buy:

1) Exclusive Chicken & Rice - this food is made by the same company that makes Precise
2) Victor Select Pro or Joint Formula 26/18 - the company that makes this food also make carbon copy formulas for other companies and 3 times the cost.
3) Black Gold Signature Adult - Excellent reputation

These cost $.75lb.

There is nothing wrong with BilJac, Euk & Pro Plan but they are quite a bit more money. BilJac is twice the cost of the ones I put up.

Take advantage of what the feed stores have.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

MGMF said:


> Personally I would switch foods because I really think that is one of the worst. One if the dog food it multi-colored it is all chemicals. Then the ingredients do not list anything that states their is any meat source at all. Chicken byproduct meal is the pieces and parts left after the breast and white meat is removed from the chicken. After all the good stuff is harvested for the human food industry, the byproducts remain. Beaks, feet, feathers, wattles and combs are chicken byproducts. There could be something beneficial thrown in, like the heart or gizzard, but because there's such potential for undesirable pieces and parts in 'byproducts,' it's better to avoid them altogether. I would find a better adult formula. The only real difference in some of the senior food is they add Glucosamine and Conjointment. If your dog doesn't seem to have joint issues then it is not needed. I personally wouldn't give it to them until need as it will not be as affective later. If so then do have issues then you can by it over the counter at a pharmacy and add a small amount yourself. Start small and add as the years go by and if they need more. As far as as calorie changes you can control that with the amount you feed.


This is factually incorrect, 100% flat out wrong.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

WasChampionFan said:


> This is factually incorrect, 100% flat out wrong.


Which part or the whole thing?


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Brave said:


> Which part or the whole thing?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


All the ranting about by products. The grade used in dog food is called "pet grade" and it is meat, skin, bone and cartilage, intestines and organs. There are no feathers, heads or beaks.

It is made in very consistent way and is low ash, extremely digestible and more palatable than chicken meal.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

WasChampionFan said:


> All the ranting about by products. The grade used in dog food is called "pet grade" and it is meat, skin, bone and cartilage, intestines and organs. There are no feathers, heads or beaks.
> 
> It is made in very consistent way and is low ash, extremely digestible and more palatable than chicken meal.


Then why don't you feed a dog (if you actually have a dog, which I very much doubt since you never answer that question or provide pics or talk about your dogs at all on this forum or the others) - something like Beneful, since it doesn't matter at all? 

Why do you pitch dog foods whose selling points are the fact they do not use "by products" or unnamed meats?


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

WasChampionFan said:


> Nutro is one step up from hog feed.


The only time I ever see you post on here is to recommend the foods you hawk, and you are free to do so. If you do not have a dog, which I believe another poster brought up, and are only here to recommend your products then I would prefer you go away.

I highly object to you calling what I feed my dogs, one step up from hog feed. My dogs are healthy, active, well cared for and loved. They do very well on Nutro and while I have tried other brands, I keep returning to Nutro because it is what they do best on.

My last golden was 4 days short of her 17th birthday when she had to be put down. She was healthy and active until 1 week before she died, and she spent her entire life eating either Pro Plan or Nutro Ultra. 

2 things, 

1- I will never use any of the products you recommend, regardless how good they maybe, because of how you present them, and bashing the competition does not work with me. Neither does not identifying yourself as a dog food rep.

2-The last person I would accept advice from, on what to feed my dog, would be a dog food rep. 

My apologies to the original poster, as this thread has gotten a little of topic.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Millie'sMom said:


> The only time I ever see you post on here is to recommend the foods you hawk, and you are free to do so. If you do not have a dog, which I believe another poster brought up, and are only here to recommend your products then I would prefer you go away.
> 
> I highly object to you calling what I feed my dogs, one step up from hog feed. My dogs are healthy, active, well cared for and loved. They do very well on Nutro and while I have tried other brands, I keep returning to Nutro because it is what they do best on.
> 
> ...


I am not a dog food rep, if read my posts I talk about many brands from higher to lower priced. And I could care less if you take my advise or not. 

You should apologize to me as well.

The OP expressed an interest in saving money and I gave the person a list of very good foods available at feed stores that are better and less money.

You should be embarrassed by your post.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Millie's Mom - there's no reason for you to feel embarrassed by your post. 

WCF got banned by other forums, I think, for hawking dog foods without apparently owning any dogs... 

Desi is a Nutro rep so you do need to take what she says about the brand with a grain of salt, but at least she owns golden retrievers and she's actually a dog owner.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I am sorry, but I used to think the same. WCF has helped me tremendously with my dog via PM. With his help I have changed his kibble to a much better grain free kibble and aside from having an upset tummy while adjusting, he is itching noticeably less. There are things I may not agree with, but thats the case with every one. Who are we to judge someone based on what other forums they have been banned from? I have been banned from a few forums because I hold different views then most and because lots of other forums have cults and groups that if your not part of your shunned and weeded out by the mods who are part of that cult. 

Without going into to much detail I have only had one problem here with a member who was stalking me in person and making many fake accounts to antagonize me. This person has since been banned. 

I used to believe this "grain free foods are the best" "Corn is horrible", "avoid this brand, dont feed that brand" "Your dog is likely allergic to chicken, lamb, fish or whatever the protein of the day is" and while I still do kind of believe in the corn thing, im much more open to it after reading a number of things. Judging someone by what forums they have been banned from without knowing full details is like judging a book by its cover, its pointless. I was judged this way, simply because someone who had it out for me (kinda like the person on this forum that was stalking me) went around created fake profiles in my name, pretended to be me, and got "me" banned from a couple places. For that, my reputation was ruined and every one uses that in an argument like reaching for a gun. 

We all need to learn to get a long and play nice. There is no need for sarcasm in my threads (wont name names but I am sure they know who they are) edging for a fight or in other threads that I have seen. If we were to go around banning people simply for the types of food they recommend (some backing it up with solid evidence/studies) what would that make us? Food snobs...


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

A1Malinois - I'm not sure what you are talking about with your threads. I don't read every thread. 

I don't think WCF needs to be banned. I just had to comment when I see him getting carried away. Remind people that we do not know who he is. I'm sure he doesn't own any goldens, or else he would have posted pictures and introduced them by now. Over time I've simply reached the conclusion that he doesn't own dogs at all.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Megora said:


> A1Malinois - I'm not sure what you are talking about with your threads. I don't read every thread.
> 
> I don't think WCF needs to be banned. I just had to comment when I see him getting carried away. Remind people that we do not know who he is. I'm sure he doesn't own any goldens, or else he would have posted pictures and introduced them by now. Over time I've simply reached the conclusion that he doesn't own dogs at all.


Not alot of people post their lives on forums. I have spoken to him via PM several times and he does in fact have dogs. No, I have no seen pics and I never asked because its not my business to. For all I know he could be lying to me but why would I assume that. Theres three other people on this forum that I can name off the top of my head who dont claim they have dogs, never introduced themselves, only read threads/posts I have made and only post to bash me. Fantapls, Woof and Woofnwags are 3 off the top of my head . I know the one will read this post


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

A1Malinois said:


> Not alot of people post their lives on forums. I have spoken to him via PM several times and he does in fact have dogs. No, I have no seen pics and I never asked because its not my business to. For all I know he could be lying to me but why would I assume that.


Hmmm.... well. Lots of people don't solely post in the dog food section and promote food. On this forum, on forums for other breeds, etc... 

If you start promoting dog food at all or making statements to that effect, I believe you have to back it up with pictures of your dogs and whatnot. Proof of their health, fitness, etc.

Understand there are a lot of weirdos out there who take advantage of the fact that they can post anonymously on all kinds of forums.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

I have 13 dogs by the way, plus a few I co-own and once in a while a guest using a local trainer.

You will never see any pictures of them, sorry. I have a Wildfire bred golden by the way and several other sporting breeds.

I have more background in foods than I care to have to tell you the truth.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

WasChampionFan said:


> I have 13 dogs by the way, plus a few I co-own and once in a while a guest using a local trainer.
> 
> You will never see any pictures of them, sorry.
> 
> I have more background in foods than I care to have to tell you the truth.


If you don't back it up.... : 

I'm really confused about why somebody would brag about the good that feeding Dr. Tims or Annamaet foods has done for their dogs... yet they are apparently afraid to show pictures of their dogs. Are they really that motley looking FROM the dog foods? 

I'm speaking flippantly here, but the fact is that I can't comprehend why somebody would not feel the slightest bit shy about posting all over the web advice on feeding dogs this and that... and yet balk about even showing pictures of their dogs at all. Just pictures. 

Taking a picture of your dog is not going to put your name on the map. 

Unless you are afraid somebody will recognize your dogs and out you as a fraud or something. What exactly is your deal?


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Megora said:


> Hmmm.... well. Lots of people don't solely post in the dog food section and promote food. On this forum, on forums for other breeds, etc...
> 
> If you start promoting dog food at all or making statements to that effect, I believe you have to back it up with pictures of your dogs and whatnot. Proof of their health, fitness, etc.
> 
> Understand there are a lot of weirdos out there who take advantage of the fact that they can post anonymously on all kinds of forums.


I know theres a ton of weirdos. But some people are just private. There is lots of happy customers out there on the foods he recommends. I was a bit hesitant to post pictures of my dogs on here when I first came because of a previous forum I was on they were saying things like "Oh hes got no malinois in him hes a blah blah mix" on my **** intro thread. I find when you want an opinion people tell you to go to a vet. When you dont want one however they fly out of every hole. Opinions are like a holes, every one has one. 

I didnt post my pics to have my dogs breed judged. I know hes a Malinois with very very little GSD in him. I dont need people telling me they think im wrong when I never asked their opinion. I have seen (not on this forum) but others forums where a member only posts in one section whether it be health, food, chit chat etc


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

A1Malinois said:


> I know theres a ton of weirdos. But some people are just private....


A1Malinois - I admittedly do not read every thread and post that everyone writes - it's not difficult with WCF, because any thread where somebody is asking about dog food he inevitably pops up out of nowhere. People who want to be private probably shouldn't spend the majority of their time forum hopping and promoting dog foods, etc. 

The only reason I can imagine somebody hiding their identity to the point of being afraid to show picture of their dogs other than throwing out a random kennel name to identify one of their dogs... 

He doesn't want his opinions discarded like the Dog Food Advisor's opinions are because he is a dentist.


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## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

Food threads are as pleasant as the breeder threads.


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## Millie'sMom (Sep 7, 2012)

Apologize for what WasChampionFan?


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Megora said:


> If you don't back it up.... :
> 
> I'm really confused about why somebody would brag about the good that feeding Dr. Tims or Annamaet foods has done for their dogs... yet they are apparently afraid to show pictures of their dogs. Are they really that motley looking FROM the dog foods?
> 
> ...


First of all, its none of your business. Second, you seem to think someone recommending Dr. Tim's or Annamaet is somehow novel. You obviously don't have much exposure to dogs if you aren't familiar with Annamaet. Dr. Tim's I can understand because it hadn't been available commercially until a year or two ago.

You must be young too, The guy that owns Annamaet is probably the most knowledgable nutritionist in the industry. He has been selling food for over 25 years to racers, hunters, show people and regular pet owners.

His Ultra food was the first dry food ever sold with over 30% protein. 

So don't think I am trying to give you some new fangled advice. These are just the two best examples of dry dog food made by two guys that actually test foods on their own dogs for years before it gets to yours.

I have no issue with people choosing Pro Plan or Eukanuba either because both are well made and thoroughly tested as well.

So why don't the moderators remove your posts so the OP can see some recommendations that fit his or her budget, like the person asked. The OP did not asked to read your foolish and childish ranting.

At no point did I even mention Dr. Tim's or Annamaet. I believe Victor, Exclusive and Black Gold.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

WasChampionFan said:


> Second, you seem to think someone recommending Dr. Tim's or Annamaet is somehow novel.


Not novel. Just amusing when it's done over and over on every dog forum out there by the same person.... :




> You obviously don't have much exposure to dogs if you aren't familiar with Annamaet. Dr. Tim's I can understand because it hadn't been available commercially until a year or two ago.
> 
> You must be young too, The guy that owns Annamaet is probably the most knowledgable nutritionist in the industry. He has been selling food for over 25 years to racers, hunters, show people and regular pet owners.


I know all this because you've posted the same information all over kingdom come. :wave: 



> The OP did not asked to read your foolish and childish ranting.


You are a dear sweet boy aren't you.


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## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

artbuc said:


> This forum is extremely helpful to many people, including me. It would immediately cease and desist if employees from the literally hundreds of dog food companies starting using it to hawk their products. I strongly object to it and will continue to do so.


You know what I like about desinutro? I like that she doesn't shove *her* food down anyone's throat when there are dozens of threads weekly that she could try to do just that. She simply came her, gave her input on a thread about her food. I personally am totally OK with her and the way she handles herself here.


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## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

A1Malinois said:


> I am sorry, but I used to think the same. WCF has helped me tremendously with my dog via PM. With his help I have changed his kibble to a much better grain free kibble and aside from having an upset tummy while adjusting, he is itching noticeably less. There are things I may not agree with, but thats the case with every one. Who are we to judge someone based on what other forums they have been banned from? I have been banned from a few forums because I hold different views then most and because lots of other forums have cults and groups that if your not part of your shunned and weeded out by the mods who are part of that cult.
> 
> Without going into to much detail I have only had one problem here with a member who was stalking me in person and making many fake accounts to antagonize me. This person has since been banned.
> 
> ...


Well said, A1! I completely agree. 

I am a member of many of those forums WCF has been banned from--and I honestly think it's their loss. What I like about WCF is he is open minded and I truly believe he tries to offer the best advice he can, while keeping budget in mind and doesn't shove the high dollar foods down everyone's throat. What drives me nuts about some forums with dog food (not so much this one) is that if it's not a high $ food, then a lot will slam on them and obviously look down on people for feeding what they consider 'inferior' foods. I used to be a dog food snob, I have relaxed quite a bit over the years, but that is because I've tried a lot of those high dollar foods and most of them just don't work for my guys. Also, since working with rescue, I can honestly say I'd rather someone feed their dog what they can afford than to let them starve and neglect them. As long as the dog is doing well and the owner is doing the best they can, who are any of us to judge? 

Sorry to get off topic, OP. 

Like I said, I do not (have not ever) fed Nutro--and honestly, it's possibly because the pushy salesreps in stores drive me nuts --and I stay away from them! lol. 

Some foods I have used, (keeping budget in mind) and been pleased with are:

Pro Plan 

Eukanuba 

Exclusive (have to back up WCF here because I did use this years ago when I had horses too and could get it in the feed store--and I had no complaints)

Chicken Soup for the Dog Lovers Soul (loved this one--don't love Diamond so much anymore--but a lot still do and have no complaints)

Diamond Naturals (again the Diamond thing)

I've used many more, but I had some of the best results on these and they are reasonably priced compared to a lot, IMO. I haven't used Victor, Precise or Annamaet, but agree that they are definitely worth considering if you can get them local to you.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Wagners Mom said:


> You know what I like about desinutro? I like that she doesn't shove *her* food down anyone's throat when there are dozens of threads weekly that she could try to do just that. She simply came her, gave her input on a thread about her food. I personally am totally OK with her and the way she handles herself here.


And I've never seen her make any personal attacks on anyone. She seems genuinely nice... and that's probably why she hasn't been banned a cazillion times from various forums. So let be. 

@OP - if you are looking around for other brands, I probably would look at something like Pro Plan. I'm feeding my pup Pro Plan Chicken & Rice, and he's doing quite well on it. There is also a Pro Plan Selects out there that I've considered for the future like when I want both our dogs on the same food, in case Merrick doesn't work for the pup. I don't know if these are too expesive for you? PP Chicken & Rice (puppy food) is $30 for 18lbs. The Merrick kibble I feed is about $30 for 15lbs. 

I fed previous dogs Nutro all their lives. Probably the only complaints was Jacks got a little too heavy eating it (why I switched him to something else). Those gals at the petstore give you coupons if you go to buy dog food on Saturdays <- That's something I miss since switching.  The thing I liked especially about the food is it was always fresh, the dogs always ate it with gusto even our fussy collie, and it was readily available in stores. 

Diamond food - btw. I always thought of it as TERRIBLE food, and with the recalls, I still would not feed it to my dogs. But I have friends who all feed Diamond kibble to their dogs and swear by it. And these people have dogs living well into their teens, so it's not harming them. I would def take Diamond kibble over Beneful though.  

The problem with feed stores (for me) is that the food is not always the best quality. Sometimes it's sat there for a long time. And that's after sitting at a distributor for a while and then trucked across the country, etc. 

I do not believe that you have to feed grain free kibble or avoid chicken - unless your dog is actually showing signs of allergies. 

Whatever you decide to feed your dog - remember to test with smaller samplings first and wean onto the food just in case. Since she's 9 years old, I wouldn't try messing up her system too much. 

Good Luck<:


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## jrust28 (Nov 20, 2012)

Thanks for all the input! Unfortunately I do not have a fees store close by, at least not that I'm aware of. I have bought a small bag of Nutro and I'm switching her over. So far, so good. She seems to really like it. For the first time in a while she cleans her bowl and isn't leaving any behind. 

The kibble is much smaller than what I was feeding. Do I need to feed more or less? I have read on here that feeding guidelines are too high. 


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## artbuc (Apr 12, 2009)

WasChampionFan said:


> These are just the two best examples of dry dog food made by two guys that actually test foods on their own dogs for years before it gets to yours.


Yeah, yeah, yeah but how do you know for sure that these guys even owned dogs? Have you ever seen any pictures of their dogs? If you saw pictures, how do you know they were not fake?

PS WCF, thanks again for all of your help, especially getting me plugged into Petflow and Dr Tim. Rocky is doing better on Pursuit than any other food I have tried and I have tried plenty!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

artbuc said:


> Yeah, yeah, yeah but how do you know for sure that these guys even owned dogs? Have you ever seen any pictures of their dogs? If you saw pictures, how do you know they were not fake?


LOL. I think I'd be asking if they were regularly posting on this forum (golden retriever forum) and using it to push their dog foods (though I think Dr. Tim DOES that on Dog Food Advisor, or I swear I saw something like that and it seemed tacky) and giving out dog food advice.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Megora said:


> LOL. I think I'd be asking if they were regularly posting on this forum (golden retriever forum) and using it to push their dog foods (though I think Dr. Tim DOES that on Dog Food Advisor, or I swear I saw something like that and it seemed tacky) and giving out dog food advice.


 
I don't "push" any one one particular food. I think you should be truthful when you post.

I make suggestions and they range from high-end foods to feed store brands. 

Most of you don't seem to care that many people can't spend $90 a bag on food (for small bags) that last less than a month.

I do care.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

WasChampionFan said:


> I think you should be truthful when you post.


WCF - because I do know people and/or met people from the forum and can be easily identified by people in our area with very little effort.... particularly anyone who has trained or shown at the local obedience clubs would recognize me by what I post about my dogs as well as the pictures. I do my very best to be as honest and truthful as possible. And because I'm very honest and truthful and am who I present myself to be... I have no problem sharing pictures and personal stories about my dogs. Of whom I'm very proud.

The OP was asking about a certain food that is easily available, is inexpensive, and most dogs do well on. You immediately jumped in and declared that food is little better than hog feed while pushing foods that most people do not have easy access to and likely would cost a lot more than that so-called hog feed with the cost of shipping, etc.

And considering most of us do not own 13 dogs of various breeds including a Wildfire female  It doesn't really cost you $90 to feed a single dog per month if you are feeding Nutro or some of the other mid-range brands that again are easily purchased from stores. 

Our collie is the most expensive simply because he does require a special prescription dog food. That's almost $70 for a 15lb bag of kibble. That lasts him about 1.5 months. <- I do not pay for this food, as he's technically not my dog. I buy everything for the two goldens though.

My two goldens will cost me about $30 a month to feed, because their bags are "staggered" in such a way. The one dog will not need a new bag of dog food until next Month. The pup probably won't need another bag until February - which point I will just switch him to adult food instead of buying another bag of puppy food. 

Fact is, I would not suggest somebody go nuts feeding their dogs something that they can't afford. Dog food is very affordable as long as you don't have to feed those prescription diets.


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## msdogs1976 (Dec 21, 2007)

jrust28 said:


> Thanks for all the input! Unfortunately I do not have a fees store close by, at least not that I'm aware of. I have bought a small bag of Nutro and I'm switching her over. So far, so good. She seems to really like it. For the first time in a while she cleans her bowl and isn't leaving any behind.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


I have been feeding PMI Exclusive for several months and have been pleased. Here is a link to their site and you can see if it is sold in your area by inputting your zip code in the store locator. 

PMI Nutrition


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Megora said:


> WCF - because I do know people and/or met people from the forum and can be easily identified by people in our area with very little effort.... particularly anyone who has trained or shown at the local obedience clubs would recognize me by what I post about my dogs as well as the pictures. I do my very best to be as honest and truthful as possible. And because I'm very honest and truthful and am who I present myself to be... I have no problem sharing pictures and personal stories about my dogs. Of whom I'm very proud.
> 
> The OP was asking about a certain food that is easily available, is inexpensive, and most dogs do well on. You immediately jumped in and declared that food is little better than hog feed while pushing foods that most people do not have easy access to and likely would cost a lot more than that so-called hog feed with the cost of shipping, etc.
> 
> ...


If you are feeding a dog his size a 15lb bag of prescription food how does that last you 1.5 months??? The 15lb bag of kibble I just bought will last me another 5 days at 3 cups a day....


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

A1Malinois said:


> If you are feeding a dog his size a 15lb bag of prescription food how does that last you 1.5 months??? The 15lb bag of kibble I just bought will last me another 5 days at 3 cups a day....


I'm not really sure how you are measuring?

Our dogs eat 2 cups a day. Exact measurements.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

jrust28 said:


> Thanks for all the input! Unfortunately I do not have a fees store close by, at least not that I'm aware of. I have bought a small bag of Nutro and I'm switching her over. So far, so good. She seems to really like it. For the first time in a while she cleans her bowl and isn't leaving any behind.
> 
> The kibble is much smaller than what I was feeding. Do I need to feed more or less? I have read on here that feeding guidelines are too high.
> 
> ...


I would look at the calories and play it by ear. There is no perfect science and each dog is different. We feed Blue Buffalo and adjust the food as we go. We are currently switching to adult food and it is quite an adventure.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Megora said:


> I'm not really sure how you are measuring?
> 
> Our dogs eat 2 cups a day. Exact measurements.


I am using one of those pet measuring cups. I measure exactly the amount mine gets and a 15lb bag at 3 cups a day would last mine 15 days. A 15lb bag at 2 cups a day would last mine about 20-25 days if I am lucky. How your getting 1.5 months (45 days about) is beyond me. If a 15lb bag would last me 1.5 months I would only pay $35 every 1.5 months to feed mine...


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

A1Malinois said:


> I am using one of those pet measuring cups. I measure exactly the amount mine gets and a 15lb bag at 3 cups a day would last mine 15 days. A 15lb bag at 2 cups a day would last mine about 20-25 days if I am lucky. How your getting 1.5 months (45 days about) is beyond me. If a 15lb bag would last me 1.5 months I would only pay $35 every 1.5 months to feed mine...


Weird. I guess I'll put it this way. The first bag of kibble I got for Bertie was a 6lb bag. That lasted me 2 weeks with me feeding him 2 cups a day.  So in the time it took you to feed your dog 15lbs worth of dog food, I fed my puppy 6lbs worth of dog food. Maybe 7, if you count the pound or so that I brought home from the breeder. Same point though.

I bought the 18lb bag a couple days ago and dumped the remaining couple cups in with that, so you can understand why I anticipate that bag lasting me a goodly amount of time. 

I use baking scoops to measure out the food. <- And I know I'm so neurotic about making sure the measurements are right that I've checked the amounts with regular measuring cups as well.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

How many cups you get out of a bag depends on the density (grams per cup) of the food. I am not sure how greatly that varies between foods. 

Molly's current food is more dense than the previous food she was on. A 15 lb bag of the new food should last her 6 weeks if she eats 2 cups a day. A 15 lb bag of the old food would last longer.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Vhuynh2 said:


> How many cups you get out of a bag depends on the density (grams per cup) of the food. I am not sure how greatly that varies between foods.
> 
> Molly's current food is more dense (more grams per cup) than the previous food she was on. A 15 lb bag of the new food should last her 6 weeks if she eats 2 cups a day. A 15 lb bag of the old food would last longer.


Makes sense? 

I was sitting here and trying to figure out why there would be such a huge difference.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Megora said:


> Makes sense?
> 
> I was sitting here and trying to figure out why there would be such a huge difference.


It is still a little but puzzling, because A1's food must be twice as dense as yours to only last half as long as your food lasts you. That is a huge difference..


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

3 cups of his kibble weighs 16 ounces so 1lb. I'm still amazed on how long that food lasts you guys. I'm jealous. A 20lb bag of pro plan lasted me 30 days at 2 cups a day. A 28lb bag of acana lasted me 4-5 weeks at 2 cups a day.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Does it say on the bag how many grams in one cup? Molly's food (Acana) is 120 grams per cup (4.2 ounces). 


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Not on the bag but I weighed 1 cup of his kibble is 121 grams. Of his old food acana 1 cup was 136 grams


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Vhuynh2 said:


> How many cups you get out of a bag depends on the density (grams per cup) of the food. I am not sure how greatly that varies between foods.
> 
> Molly's current food is more dense than the previous food she was on. A 15 lb bag of the new food should last her 6 weeks if she eats 2 cups a day. A 15 lb bag of the old food would last longer.


Don't be preoccupied with "cups", or making a bag last as long as possible. Feeding 2 cups of food to a medium-large adult dog may actually not be enough food, depending on the weight or protein level in the food. Kibble size and shape could really make this approach a mess as well.

A normally active adult should get at least 1 gram of protein per lb of dog weight per day. 

A dog holding weight on a lower amount of food could just be a function of the fat content.

It would be preferable to feed more of a food with the same protein and lower fat.

It is too simple to say "Brand A is higher quality and more dense, so I feed less" because the amount of nutrition could be lacking.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Feeding 2 cups of food to a medium-large adult dog may actually not be enough food....


I think this is actually quite true. I don't know if it is protein so much as just calories and fat percentage (my vet freaks out about people feeding golden retrievers a kibble with too high a fat percentage), but I'm thinking about those cases where the dogs need to eat 4-5 cups of food to maintain their weight. 

Understand though with golden retrievers who are also in training (getting 1-2 cups of treats a day), you have to be careful about feeding too much dog food. They get fat very fast compared to other breeds.  

The two cups a day comes at the advice of my vet from way back with our goldens who just got too fat too quickly eating 4-5 cups a day (what we initially thought we had to feed them based on the bags and our first golden who came from field lines and had a different metabolism than the next two who had more show lines). Our first golden, when he was healthy, could eat 4 cups of food every day without putting on any weight. It was a shock when our next two boys quickly got obese (90 lbs) eating the same amount. 

Using the advice from the one dog's breeder (show person) as well as our vets, we switched to the 2 cups a day and that worked better to maintain a healthy weight for those dogs. 

Long schpeel aside - don't feed based on what's on the back of the bag. Go by your dog and what he needs to maintain a healthy weight. And remember that their total calorie should include their treats.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

WasChampionFan said:


> Don't be preoccupied with "cups", or making a bag last as long as possible. Feeding 2 cups of food to a medium-large adult dog may actually not be enough food, depending on the weight or protein level in the food. Kibble size and shape could really make this approach a mess as well.
> 
> A normally active adult should get at least 1 gram of protein per lb of dog weight per day.
> 
> ...


That's a lot of putting words in my mouth. I fed the SAME amount of the old, less dense food. I never said it was lesser in quality. I actually want to feed more of the new food because it has less protein and calories but it gives my dog huge and soft stools if I fed even 2.25 cups, which I did for a week. After reducing it, her stools became perfect.

I know how much protein she should get. I supplement with her extra protein (cooked meat) with the new food since she can't eat 2.25 cups. Also, the new food has a lower fat content. I have no idea if she is going to maintain weight on it. I know it is very possible that this new food will not be right for her in the long run. She's only been on this food exclusively for 13 days..

My dog is only 50 lbs. So I wouldn't consider her medium-large. Maybe just medium. 

So I am not "preoccupied" with cups. If my calculations were correct, 2.25 cups of new food equals 2 cups of old food in terms of protein and it comes close in calories. I fed that for a week, it just didn't work out, so I am now feeding the amount that works. I never expected to feed less of the new food just because it is more dense (by 8 grams per cup-- not a significant difference) and "higher quality" (your words, not mine, I would've stayed on the old food for life). 


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

If I'm reading this correctly, you're not figuring density accurately.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Garfield said:


> If I'm reading this correctly, you're not figuring density accurately.


I did not calculate the density.. It's on the bag. But regardless of density that is not how I figured out how much to feed. I was just trying to explain how one bag might not last as long as another bag of equal weight. And I forgot to say kibble size also affects how much food actually goes in a cup.


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

Vhuynh2 said:


> I did not calculate the density.. It's on the bag. But regardless of density that is not how I figured out how much to feed. I was just trying to explain how one bag might not last as long as another bag of equal weight. And I forgot to say kibble size also affects how much food actually goes in a cup.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


I got that you were trying to account for the difference and it was a valid point. Density is oft mistaken for mere weight per volume - and I've even seen some dog food companies incorrectly state their food's density. Not saying that's the case here, just surprised as usually higher density foods go farther not the opposite though the caloric & nutritional breakdown and mass of the foods determine that. It would be interesting to compare those in these examples.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Garfield said:


> I got that you were trying to account for the difference and it was a valid point. Density is oft mistaken for grams per cup - and I've even seen some dog food companies incorrectly state their food's density. Not saying that's the case here, just surprised as usually higher density foods go farther not the opposite though the caloric and nutritional breakdown of the foods determine that. It would be interesting to compare those in these examples.


Density is mass over volume..So the number of grams in a 250 ml cup should give you density. Do you mean kibble size and shape is not accounted for so what's listed on the bag is not the true density of the food?


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

Vhuynh2 said:


> Density is mass over volume..So the number of grams in a 250 ml cup should give you density. Do you mean kibble size and shape is not accounted for so what's listed on the bag is not the true density of the food?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


Technically, mass is not weight, and would more account for kibble to kibble discrepancies. Then there is caloric density, energy density, etc. Gonna stop there because I'm giving myself a headache! lol 

p.s. I've seen some companies misprint this info, not that the ones you're using necessarily did. Though I am surprised to see a higher density food last that less time.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Vhuynh2 said:


> Density is mass over volume..So the number of grams in a 250 ml cup should give you density. Do you mean kibble size and shape is not accounted for so what's listed on the bag is not the true density of the food?
> 
> If you are thinking that density is equal to weight, yes, and I will give you an example. Royal Canin has really crazy kibble shapes, types and very big kibble sizes, so the amount by weight in a cup by volume can appear realtively low. Large irregular sizes simply don't fit as well in a defined space like a cup. One RC kibble is actually shaped like a hollow barrel, so the cup will have a lot of air space, doesn't make it less nutritious.
> 
> ...


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Garfield said:


> Technically, mass is not weight, and would more account for kibble to kibble discrepancies. Then there is caloric density, energy density, etc. Gonna stop there because I'm giving myself a headache! lol
> 
> p.s. I've seen some companies misprint this info, not that the ones you're using necessarily did. Though I am surprised to see a higher density food last that less time.


You're right, mass is not the same as weight. However, if measurements for mass and weight were taken under consistent gravitational pull, wouldn't they be the same? It would not be the same if the gravitational pull was inconsistent. As long as the "mass" of one cup of food was determined on an accurate balance and not in a grocery store scale, isn't that the way to determine mass? 

In school, that was how we determined densities.. By using balances. 


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

WasChampionFan said:


> I really don't like this concept of "density" as a way to judge the quality of a food. Just because more food by weight fits into a defined space like a cup doesn't mean its better or more nutritious. Density is purely a marketing concept and people say it over and over again, like "Orijen is more nutritionally dense so you feed less....."


No one is saying density determines quality. Period! It never even crossed my mind. Like I said, I wanted to feed MORE of the new food, not less. 




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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

What is the old food? What is the new food?


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## Garfield (Apr 7, 2009)

WasChampionFan said:


> Vhuynh2 said:
> 
> 
> > Using "cups" to determine how much food a dogs is eating can be misleading. It means almost nothing. You buy food by weight not by cups.
> ...


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

New food: Acana duck and pear
Old food: pro plan performance. 

I trust my breeder and all the other breeders who feed ProPlan to their dogs. I never wanted to switch (especially after hearing horror stories of endless loose stool and diarrhea) but my dog has gotten increasingly itchy (I thought it was normal until it got much worse), she's chewing on her butt and feet (which are a dark red/rusty color now) so much that she has thrown up fur balls twice, scratching her face, has yeasty ears (plus lots of shaking), and goopy eyes, VERY gassy (LOUD belches many times a day). I switched her HOPING it was a food allergy. Now she is much less gassy and her coat is softer and smoother. Her eyes are not goopy, less itching and less head shaking. I just want her to get better, and if this food doesn't work, I will be going back to ProPlan (Sensitive Skin and Stomach) even though I want a higher protein level.. But I will probably go to the vet first. 

I was originally looking for another food around the same protein level (30%) but I somehow got steered into another direction at the pet store to find a limited ingredient/single protein food.. I am not very happy with the 25% protein in Acana but I'm just going to see how it goes.. I'm also not happy that I can't feed her 2.25 cups a day without her having large and soft (but formed) stool. BUT if she stops itching I can try to find another food later. 

So I never thought Acana was better, and I like the years of research behind ProPlan. The density was just something I noticed when calculating how much I should feed. So if it doesn't work, I'd be happy to go back.. If only it was a bit higher in protein. 


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Vhuynh2 said:


> New food: Acana duck and pear
> Old food: pro plan performance.
> 
> I trust my breeder and all the other breeders who feed ProPlan to their dogs. I never wanted to switch (especially after hearing horror stories of endless loose stool and diarrhea) but my dog has gotten increasingly itchy (I thought it was normal until it got much worse), she's chewing on her butt and feet (which are a dark red/rusty color now) so much that she has thrown up fur balls twice, scratching her face, has yeasty ears (plus lots of shaking), and goopy eyes, VERY gassy (LOUD belches many times a day). I switched her HOPING it was a food allergy. Now she is much less gassy and her coat is softer and smoother. Her eyes are not goopy, less itching and less head shaking. I just want her to get better, and if this food doesn't work, I will be going back to ProPlan (Sensitive Skin and Stomach) even though I want a higher protein level.. But I will probably go to the vet first.
> ...


I had that same problem with Acana when mine was on it. If I fed more then 2 cups his stools become a bulky mess. Im still playing with the new kibble hes on to see how much he can tolerate. 

Sir Fatticus (Riot) (he used to be fat but his nickname stuck), my cat can eat 2 cups of acana a day and his stools stay the same. Cynder, the kitten is the one who I have to be careful with. But, they never eat the same food as they get bored so after the bag of Acana is up im going to grab a bag of something else probably GO since they seem to like that kibble.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

A1Malinois said:


> I had that same problem with Acana when mine was on it. If I fed more then 2 cups his stools become a bulky mess. Im still playing with the new kibble hes on to see how much he can tolerate.
> 
> Sir Fatticus (Riot) (he used to be fat but his nickname stuck), my cat can eat 2 cups of acana a day and his stools stay the same. Cynder, the kitten is the one who I have to be careful with. But, they never eat the same food as they get bored so after the bag of Acana is up im going to grab a bag of something else probably GO since they seem to like that kibble.


Did your dog maintain his weight at 2 cups a day?


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Vhuynh2 said:


> Did your dog maintain his weight at 2 cups a day?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


He did for a while then he started losing. Went from 63 to 59lbs. Bumping up his food did nothing but cause a mess in my back yard because it was so bulky.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

A1Malinois said:


> He did for a while then he started losing. Went from 63 to 59lbs. Bumping up his food did nothing but cause a mess in my back yard because it was so bulky.


Hmm.. I wonder how Molly will do.. She probably needs less than Lincoln does anyway since she's 50 lbs. 


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Vhuynh2 said:


> Hmm.. I wonder how Molly will do.. She probably needs less than Lincoln does anyway since she's 50 lbs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


Just have to try and experiment. The bag said Lincoln should eat 3 cups if hes active at 66lbs so I lowered it to 2 cups. I will still feed acana to my cats and little dog because they do fine on whatever food however for Lincoln, Acana was working a tad bit for his gut but now its not so I found another kibble that I feel is better then Acana, provides more protein and the same fat level as well as more calories per cup if you view food that way. Plus, its cheaper then Acana and for some people the same cost.


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