# Black Golden Retrievers



## kateann1201 (Jan 9, 2011)

Ok, I'm stumped. How does a black "Golden" Retriever come about. Is this cross breeding or does it just happen?


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

I think you're thinking of flat-coated retrievers. They're similar in body shape and coat length, but the heads of purebred flatties are less broad with almost no stop to them.
The Flat-Coated Retriever Society of Canada

From what I gather, the attitude is also similar but flatties tend to be slightly more aloof and have more drive, in general. They pretty much have to have a job to be happy.

My guy is a flat coat retriever cross so I'm never sure if what I'm getting from him is flat coat personality or his cross. There also seems to be a stigma associated to flat coats about shorter life spans due to cancer. I had one lady ask me how I can get a dog that will die before he's 7 yrs old! Needless to say, I'm hoping that is definitely NOT true!

Here's a pic of Ranger:


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## kateann1201 (Jan 9, 2011)

Ooooooh now I see. That makes sense now. Thanks for clearing up the confusion


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Many black dogs that are attributed to be flat coat mixes are more likely golden retreiver mixes. In genetics, black is a dominant color and so a golden mixed with anything carrying black...is most likely to result in black or black-brown or blackish-tri puppies. 

My golden mix is tricolored (black with some white on paws, chest, head and brown in some of those areas too. Many of her littermates are all black or black with brown points.


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## kateann1201 (Jan 9, 2011)

Hmmm...okay well I'm posting a pic of a dog in our local shelter listed as a retriever mix. What are your opinions on breed based on her pic?


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## janine (Aug 8, 2009)

I would say that pup could be a cross between a golden & lab. What a great tongue she has. Are you thinking of bring her home?

That is a great picture of Ranger!!!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Dog in the pic looks like Lab mixed with something with more coat.


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## Judi (Feb 26, 2007)

kateann1201 said:


> Ok, I'm stumped. How does a black "Golden" Retriever come about. Is this cross bredding or does it just happen?


Never heard of a black Golden Retriever unless he or she is filthy.


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## Judi (Feb 26, 2007)

Ranger said:


> I think you're thinking of flat-coated retrievers. They're similar in body shape and coat length, but the heads of purebred flatties are less broad with almost no stop to them.
> The Flat-Coated Retriever Society of Canada
> 
> From what I gather, the attitude is also similar but flatties tend to be slightly more aloof and have more drive, in general. They pretty much have to have a job to be happy.
> ...


Why would this "lady" want a dog that will die before the dog is 7?


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

kateann1201 said:


> Hmmm...okay well I'm posting a pic of a dog in our local shelter listed as a retriever mix. What are your opinions on breed based on her pic?


 
Our beloved Apache looked almost identical to this. She was a springer/ black lab mix. Such a love she was and lived to be almost 15.


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

Just to say "I LOVE FLATTIES!!!!!!!!!!)


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

I show and breed flat coats and work with Flat coat rescue....goldens go back to flat coats around the mid 1800's as there is a recessive yellow in flat coats... which is why often you will see goldens come up with a black mismark 

Most dogs labelled as flat coats in shelters are golden/lab mixes or border collie/lab mixes.... 

Flat Coats are NOT more aloof than goldens they are happy happy happy dogs and are MUCH higher energy than most goldens ... they are more like a field bred golden... I often think of my flat coats as border collies without the work ethic... their whole goal in life is to have fun. 

The most distinctive thing about a flat coat is head shape and eye shape... with an almond shaped eye and very little stop to the head.... when we ID a dog we are looking for racy not weedy and many of us are "head hunters" so we look immediately for a distinctive flat coat head 

Unfortunately like many breeds flat coats are plagued by cancer with an average age of 7 .... we know the ages.... some die very young of cancer 2 but then if you can get them to 7 or 8 many of our flat coats die at 5 you are probably good from 9-11 if you can get them past 11 you might hit 13 there are just these age brackets that alot of dogs die in and they get all sorts of cancer

so here are a few of my kids


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## kateann1201 (Jan 9, 2011)

Good info! Thank you. I'm guessing that there's probably a snowball's chance in hell that this dog is either flat coat or golden. I could definitely believe springer/lab mix...

I can't believe I didn't know what a flat coated retriever was lol :doh:


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## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

I too ADORE flat coated retrievers and hope one day to have one. Wonderful dogs. Simply gorgeous and full of fun and personality to the fill. :smooch:


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

sharlin said:


> Just to say "I LOVE FLATTIES!!!!!!!!!!)


Me too, I think they're stunning....


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

the problem wiht flat coats is that people think they are like goldens.... and they ARE NOT they are very very different.... when I want someone to go out and play with I grab a flat coat... when I want a dog to pet I will grab a golden

My flat coats absolutely know how to push buttons... I have caught them ON my kitchen counters... they are smart enough to push buttons and while very very smart training can be a challenge because they get bored... They are birdy and driven and opportunistic. I had been training for obedience near a pond... and then for a treat as a reward was throwing a bumper and my girl went for the bumper the first time... never looked at the pond... second time... third .... came back forth time she got out for the bumper looked at me... looked at the pond... and made a choice and it wasn't me... the people at the playground were hysterical.... these are my dogs that can scale my six foot stockade and will do it just to let me know they can... 
The first picture is my Meir On the second tier of the cat tree.... Cats were not pleased... in the bottom notice that she is inside the ex-pens and the size of the hole.... in my now non existent garden.... 

I adore these dogs but they are not for everyone and they are NOT like goldens....


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## LDGrillo (Dec 20, 2010)

OMG Shalva! Those holes! They're, they're, so numerous! What craziness! I'm sure those holes get quite annoying, but it makes for a good story and picture : )


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## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

I love Ranger....  Hes gorgeous!


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

Judi said:


> Why would this "lady" want a dog that will die before the dog is 7?


I think you misunderstood what Ranger was saying. I think she meant that the lady didn't understand why someone would get a dog that has an average life span that was so low...not that the lady wanted to know where to find one.


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## cham (Feb 21, 2008)

My Raine is most likely a border collie, retriever mix. She has the beautiful FCR tail, but her muzzle is shorter and she doesn't have retriever ears. Her ears are laid back flat against her head and much shorter and she has tiny touches of white on her paws, and a bit on her chest. She is a pretty laid back girl for the most part, and smaller than the average retriever. She had a pretty bad load of Heartworm before I adopted her, and even tho the vet says no, I swear it affected her energy levels. However when she does play, she tends to want to run herd, and knock Mitch down, like the BCs do the sheep when they try to run from the flock. Oh yea, she has also been known to jump a 6 ft stockade fence, in addition to climbing chain link fences, of different heights.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

I think they are very pretty, their coat just shines.


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## nellie'smom (Dec 27, 2007)

I would believe the dog in the picture could be a lab/golden mix. That is what my Nellie is, and they look similar, but who knows.


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## crayola_sky (Jan 18, 2011)

my auntie has a golden retriever x black lab x boarder collie.

looks like a black golden retriever..but has white on the tips of her paws.
she really cute and friendly.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Shalva said:


> ...
> Flat Coats are NOT more aloof than goldens they are happy happy happy dogs and are MUCH higher energy than most goldens ... they are more like a field bred golden... I often think of my flat coats as border collies without the work ethic... their whole goal in life is to have fun.


"Aloof" is the wrong word...I meant more what you described in the first paragraph of your following quote. You were much more eloquent than me! I was thinking more of how they're ready to work or play rather than always just "being" with their people if that makes sense...screw it. You described it better than me anyway!



Shalva said:


> the problem wiht flat coats is that people think they are like goldens.... and they ARE NOT they are very very different.... when I want someone to go out and play with I grab a flat coat... when I want a dog to pet I will grab a golden
> 
> My flat coats absolutely know how to push buttons... I have caught them ON my kitchen counters... they are smart enough to push buttons and while very very smart training can be a challenge because they get bored... They are birdy and driven and opportunistic. I had been training for obedience near a pond... and then for a treat as a reward was throwing a bumper and my girl went for the bumper the first time... never looked at the pond... second time... third .... came back forth time she got out for the bumper looked at me... looked at the pond... and made a choice and it wasn't me... the people at the playground were hysterical.... these are my dogs that can scale my six foot stockade and will do it just to let me know they can...


I love the quirkiness - that picture is hilarious! I see that expression on Ranger all the time. Like, oh am I not supposed to be here? Why ever not?



Enzos_Mom said:


> I think you misunderstood what Ranger was saying. I think she meant that the lady didn't understand why someone would get a dog that has an average life span that was so low...not that the lady wanted to know where to find one.


That's exactly it!


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## RachelsGoldens (Jan 23, 2011)

My Digby is a golden/lab mix. His dad was a great big Golden and his mom was a lab. He came from a litter of eight, some yellow short hair, some black short hair, a yellow medium hair, and then he and his sister look like this:

 

It cracks me up how many times people have said to me "Is this a black golden?" I just laugh and say yes. He's a sweetie and he thinks he's golden anyways. I tell them "Shhh, he doesn't know he's black, he thinks he's the same color as the other three." Funny thing is, he doesn't like the water and he doesnt' retrieve. Have to leave a swimming pool empty for him when I fill one up for the other three. 



I also had a pair of siblings come through the rescue, from the same litter, and I knew for a fact the mom was a golden and the dad a lab. The female looked just like a black lab and the male looked just like a golden. it was so funny, nobody believed they were from the same litter.


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## Adriennelane (Feb 13, 2008)

I have a black golden! That's what we always tell her anyway. Dory's a lab/golden mix. Most of the time, she's more laid back than Lucy, well in some ways. She's just a year old, and Lucy's three, so that changes. She loves to swim and retrieve. She also likes to play kick ball - _a lot_. We had a FCR owner ask us if she was one at PetSmart a couple of weeks ago.


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## harrym (Nov 13, 2010)

Our Lucy is a lab/golden mix with all-black coat. She loves to retrieve and swim. If we say "duck" or "ball" in our conversation, she will go retrieve them from her toys and expect to play "fetch".


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Shalva said:


> I show and breed flat coats and work with Flat coat rescue....goldens go back to flat coats around the mid 1800's as there is a recessive yellow in flat coats... which is why often you will see goldens come up with a black mismark
> 
> Most dogs labelled as flat coats in shelters are golden/lab mixes or border collie/lab mixes....
> 
> ...


They are beautiful.


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## Jessie'sGirl (Aug 30, 2010)

Ranger said:


> I think you're thinking of flat-coated retrievers. They're similar in body shape and coat length, but the heads of purebred flatties are less broad with almost no stop to them.
> The Flat-Coated Retriever Society of Canada
> 
> From what I gather, the attitude is also similar but flatties tend to be slightly more aloof and have more drive, in general. They pretty much have to have a job to be happy.
> ...


 Oh Ranger is such a beauty. When the golden retriever breed was developed, a flat-coated retriever was crossed with another breed.


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## Judi (Feb 26, 2007)

Enzos_Mom said:


> I think you misunderstood what Ranger was saying. I think she meant that the lady didn't understand why someone would get a dog that has an average life span that was so low...not that the lady wanted to know where to find one.


I hope I misunderstood. That's the way it seemed due to the way it was worded.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Jessie'sGirl said:


> Oh Ranger is such a beauty. When the golden retriever breed was developed, a flat-coated retriever was crossed with another breed.


back in the day any dog that retrieved was a retriever.... with the flat coats recessive yellow (a disqualifying fault in the breed ring and something all reputable breeders test for) as well as some water spaniels and others the golden was developed... I am sure there are those here who know more about the history of goldens... I am more fluent in the history of the flat coats although I read an interesting article by don sturz years ago that was very informative... however... in my own dogs... my goldens that is... I can trace their lineage back to flat coats and those dogs are clearly indicated in their k9data pedigree.... 

go find your own dogs in k9 data and go back and back and back until you find them... if you cant find another branch and go back and back and they are there... its interesting to see.... 
s


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## kateann1201 (Jan 9, 2011)

Ok, so I went to the shelter today and spent some time with the dog I posted (while Bailey was at the groomers.) She is definitely a spaniel mix. Her head was much smaller and shorter than her picture showed. And sadly, she was obese.  I guess that's better than emaciated, but the poor dog spent the whole time just pooing :uhoh: Anyhow, she seemed sweet but definitely lacked manners and was jumping up on me when she wasn't going potty. I felt bad for her...

On a good note, I saw a young family there adopting a beagle that was simply adorable!


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## RoyalBuzz (Mar 19, 2012)

Just last night we had a litter of 10 beautiful Golden Retriever puppies or should I say 9 Goldens and 1 black. There is absolutely, positively no chance that another male got to our Golden girl, certainly has to be a recessive gene or some kind of genetic dysfunction, the black is healthy and just as cute as the rest of them.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Shalva said:


> I show and breed flat coats and work with Flat coat rescue....goldens go back to flat coats around the mid 1800's as there is a recessive yellow in flat coats... *which is why often you will see goldens come up with a black mismark *



Oh gosh -- NO -- my pet peeve -- aberrant black spots on goldens are SOMATIC MUTATIONS meaning they are CONGENITAL *NOT* GENETIC and have nothing to do with common ancestors to the FCR. Black spots in goldens are NOT inherited.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

RoyalBuzz said:


> Just last night we had a litter of 10 beautiful Golden Retriever puppies or should I say 9 Goldens and 1 black. There is absolutely, positively no chance that another male got to our Golden girl, certainly has to be a recessive gene or some kind of genetic dysfunction, the black is healthy and just as cute as the rest of them.


I'm thinking of two possibilities...

1. The male you bred your female to has something else in him.

2. Another male got to your female.

The type of goldens I see with mismarks have patches of black or white. For a puppy to be all black....


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## AlanK (Jun 28, 2008)

kateann1201 said:


> Hmmm...okay well I'm posting a pic of a dog in our local shelter listed as a retriever mix. What are your opinions on breed based on her pic?


Well maybe no Golden Retriever but THAT is a nice looking pooch. I wish I had more room Go for it:yes:

I just realized this was an older post.


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

Perhaps it could be that the puppy as an overabundence of Melanin causing the black color? Kind of like albino, but the opposite.


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## RoyalBuzz (Mar 19, 2012)

The male we have had for 7 years (AKC Golden), AKC Golden Female 5 years, and have been breeding Goldens for 15 years, these 2 exclusively once a year. The only other male dog is a few miles away and it is a PB Beagle, however, the female has not been out of our sight for the past 4 months we are very careful before during and after a heat cycle. I almost passed out when I seen it. I would DNA test it but I know for a fact no other dog has been around her.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> I would DNA test it but I know for a fact no other dog has been around her.


I'm not a breeder, but out of curiosity and peace of mind alone, I would have the DNA test done.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

edited because I just realized this is a 2011 thread.


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## WLR (May 11, 2008)

Judi said:


> Why would this "lady" want a dog that will die before the dog is 7?


 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Because every dog deserves a loving home no matter how short their time here could be.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

RoyalBuzz said:


> Just last night we had a litter of 10 beautiful Golden Retriever puppies or should I say 9 Goldens and 1 black. There is absolutely, positively no chance that another male got to our Golden girl, certainly has to be a recessive gene or some kind of genetic dysfunction, the black is healthy and just as cute as the rest of them.


Black is dominant to yellow, so it isn't a recessive thing. I suppose that it is theoretically possible that there was a genetic mutation in the one pup, but it would have had to have happened very very early in the pup's development, actually probably before the first cell division to get a completely black puppy (or possibly a mutation in either the egg or sperm). I have never heard of it happening, but it is possible.


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

I would love me a flattie or a crazy ass border collie. But I am limited to two according to DH. Plus, not many Flat-Coats availibe of good breeding in the Mid-West.


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## Wagners Mom2 (Mar 20, 2012)

My ex-neighbors had two goldens that they wanted to breed. They were kept outside, so of course a visiting male lab got involved. She had 9-10 pups--all black. Some looked like black labs--and the rest looked like black golden retrievers. Beautiful pups--and SO sweet. Just wish they (the neighbors, not the poor dogs) hadn't contributed to the over pet-population like that. :/


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## WLR (May 11, 2008)

*Black Goldens*

I saw what I would call a Black Golden at GoldStock 2010.
Now I don't know the name, gender nor owner, but they were at cabin # 9.

Sorry for the late posting but it took awhile to find the image after everything else that's been going on.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

WLR said:


> I saw what I would call a Black Golden at GoldStock 2010.
> Now I don't know the name, gender nor owner, but they were at cabin # 9.
> 
> Sorry for the late posting but it took awhile to find the image after everything else that's been going on.


Awww, look at her curls! (I'm just gonna go with my gut and say she's a girl. LOL)


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Ranger said:


> I think you're thinking of flat-coated retrievers. They're similar in body shape and coat length, but the heads of purebred flatties are less broad with almost no stop to them.
> The Flat-Coated Retriever Society of Canada
> 
> From what I gather, the attitude is also similar but flatties tend to be slightly more aloof and have more drive, in general. They pretty much have to have a job to be happy.
> ...


 
Net says 10 years. Raw fed couple more added on.


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

I read about a litter with a black pup or two somewhere a few years ago, but cant remember which forum. That was before my vision got bad and I was on several. I remember there wa a long discussion about it. Some said it happens, others said not. I have no idea.


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## kenitra (Apr 22, 2011)

*friend's black golden*

My close friend has a black retriever. She had him DNA tested and he came back mostly golden. He's all black with a white chest and looks like a medium sized border collie. He also won the state frisbee championship two years running and cuddles like a golden. So the post about black being the dominant color surely holds. my guy is all golden


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## BoydAK (Oct 2, 2013)

I know this is an old thread but..... Along with Waylon, our golden, we have a rescue dog that is reported to be flat-coated and great pyrenees. He is now 6 months old but not as much enrgy as Waylon.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

BoydAK said:


> I know this is an old thread but..... Along with Waylon, our golden, we have a rescue dog that is reported to be flat-coated and great pyrenees. He is now 6 months old but not as much enrgy as Waylon.


You should start a new thread and post some pictures of your boy, I bet he is beautiful!


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## BoydAK (Oct 2, 2013)

I started a new thread with a couple pictures. enjoy


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## webaxe (Jul 2, 2015)

I have a 11 month old golden retreiver / german shepherd mix that is all black but with a few hints of brown in her legs. she looks like the dog in the picture on the first page, but is also questioned if she is a flat coat retreiver. Ill have to post some pictures when i get home from work, she is about 60lbs and small, she came from a litter of 12 and the mom was 100% golden but the father was half golden and half german shepherd.


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## thorbreafortuna (Jun 9, 2013)

Wasn't the golden retriever breed started from a yellow puppy in a littler of all black pups all those years ago? It was as I have read a mutation which was the basis for the breed, which was of course shaped and refined by a series of deliberate careful crosses and controlled breedings over time. Would that make it any more likely for a random black pup to surface in a breeding? Just thinking in writing, I know nothing of genetics.


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## webaxe (Jul 2, 2015)

We are always asked if our dog is a flat coat, she looks like one but is actually a golden retreiver and German Shepherd mix. About 75% golden, 25% german Shepherd.


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_x35Ulsl3C9vn1cdOl1u6fefeUZ_dCXW1vdp0lIqAco=w425-h755-no


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## webaxe (Jul 2, 2015)

Picture of our dog


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

kateann1201 said:


> Ok, I'm stumped. How does a black "Golden" Retriever come about. Is this cross breeding or does it just happen?


 We call them 'Mutts' unless they are AKC Registered 'Flat Coated'...


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

webaxe said:


> Picture of our dog


I would personally do a DNA test.


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## webaxe (Jul 2, 2015)

I would have no need or want for a dna test, when we first met remy we met the parents, the mother was full golden (akc quality? could have cared less) and the father was half golden retreiver and half german shepherd. But we always are asked if she is a flat coat or a rare black golden retreiver, but we are always correcting poople to what she really is. I find it neat because its a conversation starter and people are always stunned in how she turned out.


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## TiffanyGolden (Dec 6, 2015)

I'm happy I came upon this thread, maybe a little too late? But hey! 

Nala is a Black Golden.

She is 50% AKC Black Labrador and 50% AKC English Cream Golden Retriever.
I like to think it all happened by luck. Since with mixes you can get different results! For example Nala's litter mate Spike looks like a pure yellow lab! While Nala looks all Golden but.... Black! Haha

When searching on Google what a Black Golden looks like pictures popped up and I was thinking "Wow! She'll have bright brown eyes and long fur". What I didn't realize is most of the pictures showing up were Flat-Coated Retrievers. As someone stated before, many think Flat-Coated and Goldens are the same. This is not true. You can simply see it in the appearance of the two. Flat-Coated retrievers have a longer, skinnier snout whereas Goldens have a medium snout that is wider. Another thing I have noticed is Flat-Coated retrievers are taller. I knew Nala was a Black Golden based on her parents of course but because she has a shorter snout than a Flat-Coated. It's going to be interesting to see her grow. Here is a picture of her right now at 9 weeks old.

I will be sure to watch this thread heavily!


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

TiffanyGolden said:


> I'm happy I came upon this thread, maybe a little too late? But hey!
> 
> Nala is a Black Golden.
> 
> ...


5 year old thread and yes a little bit late to post to but hey 

There are no "black" Goldens simply put. Mix of this or that but not Golden.

I've taken many pictures over the years of Flatties and Goldens. They are 2 distinct breeds.


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## TiffanyGolden (Dec 6, 2015)

GoldenCamper said:


> 5 year old thread and yes a little bit late to post to but hey
> 
> There are no "black" Goldens simply put. Mix of this or that but not Golden.


Well of course there is no such thing. As if so it would be a breed! But she is a mix, but as someone else said, I consider her a "Black Golden". Its a shorter version of her mix breed; Golden and Black Lab, so why not call her a Black Golden, am I right? Haha


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

TiffanyGolden said:


> Well of course there is no such thing. As if so it would be a breed! But she is a mix, but as someone else said, I consider her a "Black Golden". Its a shorter version of her mix breed; Golden and Black Lab, so why not call her a Black Golden, am I right? Haha


That's cool, I get it. Just that from the past to the future everyone looking for "black Golden" your thread will pop up is all.

Flatties are awesome dogs but not around much anymore.


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## TiffanyGolden (Dec 6, 2015)

GoldenCamper said:


> That's cool, I get it. Just that from the past to the future everyone looking for "black Golden" your thread will pop up is all.
> 
> Flatties are awesome dogs but not around much anymore.


Yeah, research said after World War II is when the survival of the Flat-Coated Retrievers was diminishing. Hence why they are a rare breed now! It also said Golden Retrievers came about from the Flat-Coated and that's when the popularity of the Flat-Coated started to decrease. They are beautiful dogs!


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## Harleysmum (Aug 19, 2014)

There is no such thing as an English Cream Golden Retriever either. But that's another argument LOL


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## TiffanyGolden (Dec 6, 2015)

Harleysmum said:


> There is no such thing as an English Cream Golden Retriever either. But that's another argument LOL


You are correct. However, "English Cream" is for the color as of course you know! A white color golden is not show worthy or in other terms not able to be showed! But as stated before it is just referring to the light color on the Golden, but her mom is 100% Golden!


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## JohnnyTokyo (Feb 14, 2016)

TiffanyGolden said:


> I'm happy I came upon this thread, maybe a little too late? But hey!
> 
> Nala is a Black Golden.
> 
> ...


Wow, Nala really does have a short snout! Maybe she has some newfoundland in her?


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## JohnnyTokyo (Feb 14, 2016)

Harleysmum said:


> There is no such thing as an English Cream Golden Retriever either. But that's another argument LOL


It's just like the Spanish Red Golden Retriever


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## Harleysmum (Aug 19, 2014)

Well hello JohnnyTokyo. Welcome to the forum. We could do with a few more comedians on here!


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## TiffanyGolden (Dec 6, 2015)

JohnnyTokyo said:


> It's just like the Spanish Red Golden Retriever


Exactly my thoughts! Haha, welcome.


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## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

Nala is a mutt. What's the big deal?


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## TiffanyGolden (Dec 6, 2015)

Tennyson said:


> Nala is a mutt. What's the big deal?


I have no idea! 

I see nothing wrong with it, she is still my baby girl!


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

TiffanyGolden said:


> A white color golden is not show worthy or in other terms not able to be showed!


Just for the record...just like there is no such thing as a black Golden, there's no such thing as a white Golden, either.


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## TiffanyGolden (Dec 6, 2015)

kwhit said:


> Just for the record...just like there is no such thing as a black Golden, there's no such thing as a white Golden, either.


As I know this. Don't you have a white Golden?


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

TiffanyGolden said:


> As I know this. Don't you have a white Golden?


Are you serious? :doh:


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## TiffanyGolden (Dec 6, 2015)

kwhit said:


> Are you serious? :doh:


..... "White" refers to the color, correct? I'm basing it off of your signature picture. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Okay...you're wrong.

Editing my post because the above response was a little snarky. But it was based on the frustration of you asking if I have a certain type of Golden that I has just stated didn't exist. I took it as you trying to be facetious. 

So no, I don't have a white Golden, again, because there is no such thing. He is a light colored Golden of English type. If you stood him next to a truly white breed, such as a Samoyed, the difference would be obvious.


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## TiffanyGolden (Dec 6, 2015)

I came upon this image while searching. I'm betting Nala will most likely look like the right photo (as that's her on the left). I find it thrilling to guess what she will look like as she gets older!


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## GoldenLoveinBend (Mar 25, 2013)

*3.5 year old Flattie?*

Hi - I just stumbled upon your pix of your adorable pup and notice your Nala looks remarkably like our Layla, who we rescued 2.5 years ago at 9 months. We only can speculate as to her mix -- retriever, lab, Newfie, flat coat? Regardless of her ancestry, what won our hearts was her exuberance and her "love everyone" nature and her overall disposition that reminded us of a Golden. What a love. Good luck with your sweet new family member!


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

kwhit said:


> Just for the record...just like there is no such thing as a black Golden...


Actually that is not true. Black can happen if there is a defect or mutation, so while it's a one in a million shot, it can happen.


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## TiffanyGolden (Dec 6, 2015)

GoldenLoveinBend said:


> Hi - I just stumbled upon your pix of your adorable pup and notice your Nala looks remarkably like our Layla, who we rescued 2.5 years ago at 9 months. We only can speculate as to her mix -- retriever, lab, Newfie, flat coat? Regardless of her ancestry, what won our hearts was her exuberance and her "love everyone" nature and her overall disposition that reminded us of a Golden. What a love. Good luck with your sweet new family member!


Layla is gorgeous! :heartbeat

She looks exactly like Nala as of right now, who is 14 weeks old now. She may just be a Black Lab and Golden Mix like Nala, but with a Lab coat! What a cutie! Is Layla a people or dog person more? I've found that Nala loves people more than other dogs. 

Here is a picture of Nala at 14 weeks old.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Swampcollie said:


> Actually that is not true. Black can happen if there is a defect or mutation, so while it's a one in a million shot, it can happen.


Learn something new every day. . I knew they could have black on their coats, but didn't know they could be entirely black. Interesting...


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

kwhit said:


> Learn something new every day. . I knew they could have black on their coats, but didn't know they could be entirely black. Interesting...


Once in a million though... 

I think you'd be more likely to find a snowball in hell.


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## GoldenLoveinBend (Mar 25, 2013)

Awww! So cute! I have to say our Layla is quite the people pup and loves all humans. We still have a hard time keeping her from jumping on people to get in their lap. She doesn't know her strength. She loves everyone who comes to our house ...Although she can be territorial of her family pack. She is a good watch dog. She plays with other dogs well, is high energy, but if another dog is present she has no recall. We don't exist. She ignores us and usually chases the dog that's chasing the ball. She tends to not take social cues, such as when to leave a dog alone that just wants to play fetch with his own human. She doesn't like skateboarders or hipster guys with hats and beards, (shows she has a good common sense ?). 
We don't know much about her history other than she was at the Humane Society with litter mates and adopted out but later returned at 9 months. We adopted her July 5th 2014. I'm hoping we can rescue or adopt a Golden to join our pack soon to be a playmate as doggie daycare is killing us! ???

Here's a picture of our 14 year old lab mix who is now deaf and blind (eyes had horrible glaucoma so we had to eventually remove them).


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## dkar (Dec 20, 2016)

What are their life spans? I have heard that they don't live long. :-( I rescued my flattie from the pound. She is a wonderful, energetic, loving dog! She loves to be petted. She's a little needy. She was abandoned and in the shelter for weeks. She was scheduled to be euthanized the next day. I got her out of the shelter just in time! I love my Sheba so much!


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## Pilgrim123 (Jul 26, 2014)

Hi and welcome to the board. Flat coated retrievers have a shorter lifespan of 8 to 10 years, while golden retrievers live to between 10 and 12. They're both magnificent dogs.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Pilgrim123 said:


> Hi and welcome to the board. Flat coated retrievers have a shorter lifespan of 8 to 10 years....


And the good news is that a long haired black retriever adopted from shelters is more likely to be a lab mix than a purebred flat-coated retriever.


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## rooroch (Nov 7, 2012)

Megora I love your Christmas picture and have printed it and put it with all my GRF cards!!


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## Wolfeye (Sep 15, 2015)

It's interesting how the genetics play out, isn't it? My 1/2 Golden 1/2 Labrador Retriever, Bagheera, is quite a bit different from Nala. At age 5 months, he shows very little feathering and is often mistaken for a purebred black Lab. He's definitely on the puny side of the ledger, and as Labs are just a bit smaller than Goldens, this reinforces his Lab half being more dominant. His eyes though, are very Golden, not in color so much as his expressive use of them. He knows how to make cute eyes. I'm not sure which side his cold tolerance falls on. He loves to go out in the snow and just sit there and watch the leaves, the birds, the rabbits and squirrels. He almost never asks to come back in, and I have to call him. 

His personality is all over the board. Sometimes he's a Golden and wants to be with you, sometimes he has that Lab aloofness that says go away, I'm doing fine here. He's certainly not a velcro dog. One of the more interesting developments is that he loves everyone in the family, goes up and greets each one with tail awag. My Golden, Fenris, was a one-man dog. He was my shadow. Bagheera has 4 people he'll happily interact with. I have to tamp down feelings of loss when I see that. I tell myself that I don't "need" to be worshiped by a dog, and that's true, but man, Fenris made me feel adored. Bagheera is turning out to be more of a good friend than devoted companion. I am adjusting.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

rooroch said:


> Megora I love your Christmas picture and have printed it and put it with all my GRF cards!!


Aw - thanks.


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## Pilgrim123 (Jul 26, 2014)

Megora, I totally agree. Cross breeds are much more common. It seems the genetics from a black lab makes them black, while the hair length is determined by the golden retriever. But well-bred flatcoats have a different face, which is unlike labs or goldens. I always wanted to own one.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Actually, it is not possible even in the 1 in a million numbers for a pure bred Golden to be totally black. Goldens are genetically black but in the recessive form, which makes yellow coat color. You can get black spot phenomenon which could have fairly large black spots, but those are from a somatic mutation where a cell mutates from the recessive yellow to the dominant coat color which is black but NO Golden Retriever has the dominant allele or they themselves would be black since it is dominant. The mutation that causes spotting is something that happens during development. But a totally black dog would require an actual allele being dominant- which is something that is heritable since all dogs inherit one allele from each parent of each pair.
Anney Doucette (forum member) wrote a really understandable article on this for the GRN. You might try to locate it.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...ion/374034-entire-litter-black-goldens-2.html is a good thread on it.


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## Wolfeye (Sep 15, 2015)

Pilgrim123 said:


> Megora, I totally agree. Cross breeds are much more common. It seems the genetics from a black lab makes them black, while the hair length is determined by the golden retriever. But well-bred flatcoats have a different face, which is unlike labs or goldens. I always wanted to own one.


Well, because black is dominant, a black Labrador male can also carry the recessive brown or yellow genes. So, such a black Lab male, bred to a golden, would likely produce some black as well as golden pups. Case in point, my Bagheera was created from a black Lab father and a normal golden retriever mother. Out of 13 pups, only 2 were black.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

"Well, because black is dominant, a black Labrador male can also carry the recessive brown or yellow genes. So, such a black Lab male, bred to a golden, would likely produce some black as well as golden pups. Case in point, my Bagheera was created from a black Lab father and a normal golden retriever mother. Out of 13 pups, only 2 were black."

In my understanding it doesn't matter whether black is dominant. It is the "e" loci that determines the color of a golden retriever. For a golden retriever to be any shade of gold they must have a double recessive "ee". All purebred goldens have the ee. The black labrador had to have at least one recessive e. His e loci would look like this "Ee". When mating with the golden for 11 of those 13 pups he gave the recessive "e" . This means that 11 of the pups got a recessive e from both parents. "ee", This is why they are gold. The two black pups got a recessive "e" from mom and a dominant "E" from the Labrador making them a "Ee". 

The "B" locus comes into play when you are dealing with purebred labradors. 

Coat Colour Genetics in Retrievers

All Golden Retrievers are ee.

All Yellow Labrador Retrievers are ee.


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