# Advice on grooming for show



## ltldog15

Hi, I am new to the show ring. One time only so far! My girl has a good build and a pretty face but her hair wasn't nearly at puffy as the others in the ring that day. In fact, the winner had a coat that reminded me of a Pomeranian. Ok, I may be exaggerating a bit :laugh: but i need to fluff up my girls hair. She is just about to turn 8 months and she has a show in one month, so i have some time. I've added some seaweed supplements to her diet and added one raw egg daily. Any recommendations for product? or anything else?


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## Megora

What is your current show routine? 

I hedge a little about "fluffing up" because technically you don't want the coat blown open, even though there are some out there who do this.... it doesn't look good... you want the jacket to lie smooth.

There are products which do give the coat more body without blowing it open. 

Bottom line is if you want to have a plush coat that looks good - you have to do a bath/blow dry minutes before showing. 

You do need a pretty good dryer that does the job without drying out the coat or having you dry for ten million hours trying to get the coat perfect dry so your dog doesn't come off the table, shake, and get flips all over. Damp undercoats cause the flips....

You can practice by weekly baths at home until you are comfortable and confident about the whole routine. Everyone has a different routine which they follow like clockwork - and can time down to the barest second - because most do not want to have too much wait time between pre-show prep and entering the ring.... <= I started out giving myself 2 hours to groom. Having a dog with a fairly "trained coat" + experience + good dryer, I don't always start the bath/blowdry part of grooming until 1/2 hour before I head out to the ring. I would give yourself as much time as you need.

Pre show prep, you have a choice between using a spray bottle to spritz the dog wet to the skin so you can blow dry... or you can give a full bath the day of the show and blow dry. 

CC has a couple different spray bottles which do the job at getting the dog soaked to the skin with the least amount of pumps. They just came out with a newer bottle which is even better than their double-pump spray bottle!  

How people blow dry + the products used = builds body. 

You don't want to use hairsprays or other products which will make the coat feel tacky or stiff. You don't want the judge feeling it in the coat. And there are a few judges out there who will ABSOLUTELY zero in on whether there are products in the coat. So whatever products you use, you don't want to feel it in the coat.

A lot of the bodifier products feel fair natural if you have diluted them with water. Locally, a lot of people use CC Bottoms Up. Sort of because a local vendor has been pushing it quite a bit. Chris Christensen and Crown Royale both have other products which do the same thing.


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## puddles everywhere

I have never done confirmation so not much help. It sounds like you could use an experienced mentor... have you discussed this with the breeder, maybe they would be willing to help? 
Are you a member of a GR club? Maybe someone there could give some hands on advice.


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## ltldog15

GR Club? you mean in my area? I would think they wouldn't want to help since its so competitive out here. The breeder has been a lot of help, however, what the judges look for in her state is different from mine. She was very surprised at the winner in our first show.


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## Megora

Other thing... set up near the handlers who win and see what they do. 

Some handlers out there... be careful asking them for advice. I heard about one big handler out there who might deliberately give poor advice to a competitor. He's been known to do so.

Other people are going to be really great at helping. Having a local mentor is a big deal.


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## K9-Design

You need to find some buddies who will help you. Offer to pay for pre-show and day-of-show grooming. Watch and learn and your dog will be ready for the ring.
Having said all that 8 months is an age where they can either have big poofy puppy coat or absolutely no hair at all, or anywhere in between. Don't compare your pup to others at this age.


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## Anele

This probably isn't helpful-- we are very new to the show world so this is more of an outsider's observation.

But I think it's important to remember to help your dog look her best vs. look like other dogs. I know exactly what you mean about the Pomeranian coat and I fear this is going to be a new trend where extremes dominate the ring. There is one puppy here who is so large-boned and such a huge coat that he doesn't look like a Golden puppy at all. But that puppy tends to win.

So if your girl is more moderate then look for judges who appreciate that type and show under them.

There is a local man who seems like he does very little grooming of his dog beyond basic trimming. He's an owner-handler and competes in Amateur OH. He doesn't even use food to bait his dog. He basically shows up and runs around the ring. I appreciate that-- he enjoys his time with his dog and he is asking the judge to evaluate his dog, as-is. It's refreshing!


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## Megora

I'm not sure if I would waste my time showing my dog if I'm not doing anything to present my dog at his best. It would really suck the joy out of showing if your dog gets dumped every time because he's poorly presented (meaning more than the physical handling skills which is another layer of complication for owner handlers). 

The O/H class has good things about it... and bad things. Among else, you don't 100% get a good evaluation of your dog because in most cases you do not have competition in your class. You literally have the whole ring to yourself and get passed on to the Winners ring where you'll generally get dumped. The judges don't see enough of the dogs against others to make them stand out or give them something to remember when the dog goes into the Winners ring.

The Open dogs have a certain advantage goes into Winners because they were they were the last thing the judge looked at before Winners... 

BUT, that said, the judges are looking at all the other class winners in order and picking the best dog out there. 

A lot of judges are looking for good movement and the complete package. 

Sometimes grooming can help embellish what the dog has. It's not always creative fluff to cover flaws. 

Baiting is another thing that if you have a dog trained to bait - it gets their ears forward and heads set so the judge can see what the dog has. <= Unless you have a particularly dominant dog, they aren't going to be trotting around the ring and stacking with the heads up and ears continually up and forward.

(I had the pleasure of watching Anele's daughter compete with their boy last year. He was very nicely groomed, had a very nice big puppy dog head, and was a nice boy in the ring)


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## Anele

I should have prefaced my last post with... this is not what I would do or recommend but I like that someone out there is doing it, just to balance things out.



Megora said:


> I'm not sure if I would waste my time showing my dog if I'm not doing anything to present my dog at his best. It would really suck the joy out of showing if your dog gets dumped every time because he's poorly presented (meaning more than the physical handling skills which is another layer of complication for owner handlers).


I agree. It's too great of an investment of time and money for us to do it that way. But I'm glad that this owner is getting to participate in a way that works for him. It would be interesting to see how his dog would do with more grooming and better handling. 



Megora said:


> The O/H class has good things about it... and bad things. Among else, you don't 100% get a good evaluation of your dog because in most cases you do not have competition in your class. You literally have the whole ring to yourself and get passed on to the Winners ring where you'll generally get dumped. The judges don't see enough of the dogs against others to make them stand out or give them something to remember when the dog goes into the Winners ring.


Yes. We made this mistake the first show we entered (where you saw our dog). It was a good lesson in what not to do! 



Megora said:


> Baiting is another thing that if you have a dog trained to bait - it gets their ears forward and heads set so the judge can see what the dog has.


Yes-- I completely agree. Again, not baiting our dog would not be an option for us, but some part of me still admires the man for trying to do it as naturally as possible. Either he doesn't know or doesn't care, but I appreciate that he's making an effort to participate in an activity with his dog.



Megora said:


> I had the pleasure of watching Anele's daughter compete with their boy last year. He was very nicely groomed, had a very nice big puppy dog head, and was a nice boy in the ring.


Thank you!!! We were so happy to meet you. It was his first show and we had/have so much to learn.


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## ltldog15

I do not have a show routine...yet! I should have spoken to the breeder before the show, instead I asked lots of questions after. Now I have ideas of what I need to do. I am going to watch this weekend to see if i can see what others are doing. Thank you for your suggestions of product. I think i just need to buy a few and see what works the best for her coat.


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## ltldog15

Megora, could you please explain what this means:

"Among else, you don't 100% get a good evaluation of your dog because in most cases you do not have competition in your class. You literally have the whole ring to yourself and get passed on to the Winners ring where you'll generally get dumped. The judges don't see enough of the dogs against others to make them stand out or give them something to remember when the dog goes into the Winners ring."

Here is the winner:


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## ltldog15

ltldog15 said:


> I do not have a show routine...yet! I should have spoken to the breeder before the show, instead I asked lots of questions after. Now I have ideas of what I need to do. I am going to watch this weekend to see if i can see what others are doing. Thank you for your suggestions of product. I think i just need to buy a few and see what works the best for her coat.


Here is my girl for the very first time in the ring about a month ago (the winner is 1 week younger than my girl and is handled by a very winning handler):


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## ltldog15

What mistake are you talking about?


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## Megora

Your girl is pretty naked right now ... so might be tricky grooming her to build on what she has. There are people out there who do successfully show girlies who are that naked. But they zero in on specific judges. 

This is absolutely where having the hands on help of somebody is a big deal.


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## ltldog15

I'm having a hell of a time figuring out how to reply to each of you. I'm sorry, I wanted to reply to each of you separately.

My friend handles mostly short haired dogs so the handling part is covered (although never in a uber conpetitive ring). i know I need to practice more with her and I am taking more classes to prepare her. She did very well the first itme in the ring, everything the handler asked her to do. Honestly i was just happy she didn't head butt the judge when he bent over!! haha

Another friend is her groomer and will be coming with us to the next show. However, she has no show experience so its new to all of us. I think the biggest question is what the best product is to use in her hair. I do not like the look of the winner (picture above). I think she is too poofy, and to me, looks a bit over weight. But I may be totally wrong about that. We have enough time to try different products and see what is best for her.

We have fun at the shows and so does our girl so far. So as long as we all love it, we will continue to show. Sure I would love to win but I am not going to cry over it. I do, however, want to give my girl all I can to help her win. 

Thank you everyone for your honesty and suggestions.


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## ltldog15

Yes, Megora, I was told she is in her lanky stage. Its been a month and her hair is a little longer now.


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## Megora

> However, she has no show experience so its new to all of us.


I hate to say this, but I would not have this person grooming my dog for show. People who do not show goldens should not be grooming them for show. 

I'd check around at your local club and see who owns and handles golden retrievers at shows and see if you can pay them to groom your dog for you. And they can absolutely take you through grooming prep before shows and teach you everything you need to get going.


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## Anele

ltldog15 said:


> What mistake are you talking about?


Were you referring to what I posted about, that entering OH was a mistake on our part?

If so-- what I meant was, in our very, very limited experience, entering OH means everything that Megora explained. We generally do not have competition in our area. Less time in the ring, less feedback. And if your dog perks up around other dogs, she will show better with company in the ring. Winners tend to come from Open. So since that first experience when we entered OH, we have entered Open instead. 

Your girl is so pretty!


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## ltldog15

@Megora I am unable to respond to your PM because i have not posted enough. but i wanted to say thank you very much.


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## ltldog15

Ah, I understand now. Finding competition around here is not an issue!!


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## K9-Design

Anele said:


> But I think it's important to remember to help your dog look her best vs. look like other dogs.


Excellent point!!! Cool



> There is a local man who seems like he does very little grooming of his dog beyond basic trimming. He's an owner-handler and competes in Amateur OH. He doesn't even use food to bait his dog. He basically shows up and runs around the ring. I appreciate that-- he enjoys his time with his dog and he is asking the judge to evaluate his dog, as-is. It's refreshing!


That's all well and good and quaint but it's sure expensive to "play" like that. I bet his dog doesn't have a single point. Most people aren't that patient. Or that willing to shell out their money with zero results.


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## K9-Design

Okay for starters, do you have a force air dryer for dogs? 
My best advice for your girl is to bathe her with shampoo the day of the show, blow dry her, and time it so you do not have to put her back in the crate. She goes straight off the grooming table to the show ring. At her age and coat you probably only need to trim ears, feet and tip of tail. She is a nice looking dog, I don't think it's a bad idea for you to be showing her, you just have to get up to speed on grooming. 
If a helper doesn't groom goldens for show, they're no help at all. So it's a lovely gesture but probably not going to get you anywhere.
Yes, there are some puppies that look like giant poofballs. I don't know where they come from either  It's just genetics. Some breeders breed for a lot of coat. Those dogs grow up to have a lot of coat too. My dogs don't. And that's OK. Most judges are good enough to feel for the dog underneath. 
Here's a picture of my youngest pup, he is almost 8 months old as well, although he was a week over 6 months at this picture. He doesn't have the world's biggest coat either but I'm perfectly happy with it.
Again his show routine is to get a bath with soap, I use Crown Royal Bodifier spray when he's still wet, and then blow dry. That's it. 









Best of luck,


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## ltldog15

Thank you SO much!! Your boy is beautiful!!


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## Prism Goldens

ltldog15 said:


> Megora, could you please explain what this means:
> 
> "Among else, you don't 100% get a good evaluation of your dog because in most cases you do not have competition in your class. You literally have the whole ring to yourself and get passed on to the Winners ring where you'll generally get dumped. The judges don't see enough of the dogs against others to make them stand out or give them something to remember when the dog goes into the Winners ring."
> 
> Here is the winner:


Is that photo of the winner of the class, or WB?
Surprising either way.


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## Otter

Megora said:


> I hate to say this, but I would not have this person grooming my dog for show. People who do not show goldens should not be grooming them for show.


I think this is a key comment in this thread. The way a pet groomer grooms a golden is/can be vastly different than a show groom.

A couple weeks ago I took one of my dogs (Sandy) to an accomplished pro Golden handler/breeder for a one-on-one grooming lesson. I am going this weekend for 'day two'. Can't wait. At any rate, we groomed Sandy two different ways. On her left side we did a "pet grooming", on her right side we did a "show grooming".

The pet side looked, for lack of a better term, sloppy to my eyes. The show side was so much nicer. Smooth, No scissor marks, looked natural. Didn't look like she just got a hair cut... On the show side a lot of time was spent looking at Sandy's faults and good points. Then visualizing what we wanted her to look like and grooming her to try and hide faults and make the good look better. There is a lot that goes into it. Makes my head spin. Trimming ears one way if they are too big, another way if too small. Trimming here and there to make an angle look better, or adding angle.Tails too long... uhg. can't even remember everything. I've taken a bunch of classes over the years and I still hack up the ears. 

One of Sandy's litter mates goes to a pet groomer regularly and the look is night and day. Not to say she looks bad - looks fine for a pet, but it probably wouldn't work in the ring.

K9-Design said "If a helper doesn't groom goldens for show, they're no help at all." If I were showing, I wouldn't let a pet groomer touch my dog.

I have a lot of respect for you people who groom and show your dogs. There is a ton of work that goes into it. Not to mention money.



Disclaimer - I am not a groomer and I don't show my dogs (although I do think about it). I just like to groom mine and keep them looking nice.


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## Sweet Girl

ltldog15 said:


> Here is the winner:


Wow. That dog barely looks like a Golden to me. That's what's winning in the ring these days in SF? I'm kind of shocked.


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## K9-Design

Okay guys the example of the winning "puffy" puppy is not that outrageous. I also don't think it's appropriate to post a picture of someone else's dog and cut it down. How would you feel if that was your dog? I understand and appreciate that some goldens have overdone coat but....


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## Sweet Girl

K9-Design said:


> Okay guys the example of the winning "puffy" puppy is not that outrageous. I also don't think it's appropriate to post a picture of someone else's dog and cut it down. How would you feel if that was your dog? I understand and appreciate that some goldens have overdone coat but....


I truly was just surprised. That coat doesn't look like a Golden coat to me. Not cutting down the dog - I don't know anything about him. I'm just genuinely surprised by the cut and texture of the coat. I have no experience in conformation. Maybe it's not that unusual.


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## Megora

K9-Design said:


> Okay guys the example of the winning "puffy" puppy is not that outrageous. I also don't think it's appropriate to post a picture of someone else's dog and cut it down. How would you feel if that was your dog? I understand and appreciate that some goldens have overdone coat but....


To follow up with this... you never know whether you are going to meet the owner of this dog years later and find them to be one of your best friends. Stuff stays out there.  Friends understand when you tell them "I was clueless back then", but all the same you'd rather that stuff not be out there all the time.


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## TheZ's

Megora said:


> To follow up with this... you never know whether you are going to meet the owner of this dog years later and find them to be one of your best friends. Stuff stays out there.  Friends understand when you tell them "I was clueless back then", but all the same you'd rather that stuff not be out there all the time.


I've been trying to hold onto a thought something like this and not comment on that picture.


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## ltldog15

@Otter, very, very interesting. I never thought of any of that. You don't happen to have a picture of both sides do you? I would love to see them.


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## ltldog15

class winner


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## ltldog15

i was happy to see the fluffy puppy. I looked at it as she was one extreme and my puppy the other extreme. It showed me I need to improve what I am doing. I know each judge will be looking at things a little different, and it makes a difference who the handler is, so I came here to learn more. I definitely will present her better next time and hopefully she will do better than her first show. I appreciate all your positive comments and suggestions. Thank you.


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## Otter

ltldog15 said:


> @OtterYou don't happen to have a picture of both sides do you?


No. Sorry.


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