# Breeder not refunding my deposit



## Zara_golden (Nov 24, 2015)

Friday 13th night I put down my deposit $200 for a puppy from a breeder in the Niagara region. She never mentioned it was non-refundable during our emails or phone call. 

Saturday Evening I get a call from India regarding my father in law that his condition has declined suddenly. He has a brain tumor. Right away in less then 48hrs I got in touch with the breeder that I'm in this situation and I will not be able to bring home a puppy anymore and I don't know when I'll be able to in the near future. I asked for my deposit back and told her that if she wants I can provide her with all the proofs about our situation in case she feels I'm making an excuse. 

Today, she emailed me back saying it's non-refundable and she will not be able to return however will hold it for a year. 

Now, what if I am not able to get a puppy in a year? Who knows what the circumstances will be in a year? I would like to add a second puppy now when I am sure that we can give her the time she needs as a puppy. 

She's still going to sell it for the full amount. She's not losing anything. 

Is there anything I can do about it? Lawyer?


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

I'm not a breeder, nor a lawyer, so take my advice with a grain of salt. 

I, personally, would take it as a life lesson if I chose not to get a puppy from that person within the year that she'll hold it. Idk if it was mentioned and not caught or if it was mentioned on her website and not caught. But I can understand from a breeder's standpoint that a small deposit would be non-refundable since the breeder will put energy into the conversations and vetting you as a buyer. Idk if it would be worth it to you to take her to small claims court for a refund. I, personally, would just write it off and focus on my own family situation and not even give it a second thought. I might even cross that breeder off my list for the future just cause of the taste the interaction leaves in my mouth. 

If you don't think you can give a puppy the needed time and attention now due to your father-in-law's health, then don't feel like you have to rush into it just cause she already paid $200. IDK what prices are like in your area, but in mine, $200 is less than 10% of the full purchase price. It would sting to lose it but the time and energy to sue for a refund would cost more to me than just walking about from the $200.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I think that some breeders out there DO see part or all of the deposits as non-refundable. 

However. 

It seems very unreasonable for this person to have already "spent" your deposit - all the more so in the situation that you describe you are going through with your family. 

I'd have a talk with your bank to see if you can put a stop payment on the check. This if you for sure know you will not be getting a puppy from this breeder.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Who is the breeder? I see this as a lawyer question & hopefully you have one in the family as you might end up paying more in fees than the deposit. 

I can't understand keeping the deposit when the breeder knows it is not an optimal time to bring a pup home--seems more concerned about getting $$$ than ensuring her pup is going into a stable home that can dedicate its time to raising a pup. If pups were due to go home soon I could see holding the deposit until the pup is sold which I would expect to be quick as a responsibly bred golden is in high demand. On the other hand, if you went w/ a breeder that doesn't do clearances, isn't active in the breed & has several litters on her hands, I'd chalk this up to a costly lesson learned.


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## Zara_golden (Nov 24, 2015)

Megora said:


> I think that some breeders out there DO see part or all of the deposits as non-refundable.
> 
> However.
> 
> ...


I sent her an Email money transfer which she accepted right away around 1am. I am not sure if I can still put a stop on the payment through my bank.


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## Zara_golden (Nov 24, 2015)

SheetsSM said:


> Who is the breeder? I see this as a lawyer question & hopefully you have one in the family as you might end up paying more in fees than the deposit.
> 
> I can't understand keeping the deposit when the breeder knows it is not an optimal time to bring a pup home--seems more concerned about getting $$$ than ensuring her pup is going into a stable home that can dedicate its time to raising a pup. If pups were due to go home soon I could see holding the deposit until the pup is sold which I would expect to be quick as a responsibly bred golden is in high demand. On the other hand, if you went w/ a breeder that doesn't do clearances, isn't active in the breed & has several litters on her hands, I'd chalk this up to a costly lesson learned.


She is relatively new (5yrs) but works with a well known breeder which is why I decided to go with her after she showed me all the health clearances obviously. As soon as I saw the health clearances, I sent her the deposit right away. If I was not serious about adding a second puppy to the family I would have never done that in the first place. I got a call yesterday from my husband (he is in India visiting his dad) telling me that his father suffered a Hemorrhagic stroke. Do you know what that means..its a life or death situation basically. 

$200 may not be such a huge amount but when people are going through tough situations, every cent matters. I will be flying out of the country as soon as I can and trust me those $200 are a big help. What's really pissing me off is it was literally less than 30hrs. Had it been couple of weeks and she turned down multiple families ..Okay..I would have understood. And really whats more important than finding a good family for your puppies? I even said that in the email that what will you do if I pay you the remaining balance, take your puppy home and the puppy ends in a bad situation because we are not able to give her the time and attention she needs because of our situation? Isn't it better that I am informing you right away. Any good, ethical breeder will happily refund if a family is in a similar situation. 

She still has people asking her if the puppies are available on her facebook page, so obviously she will be selling the puppy I paid deposit for. And no she didn't mention that its non-refundable on email, phone call and no mention on her website. 

My uncle is a lawyer and I will be calling him shortly to ask what we can do.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Okay, honestly, the breeder spent time talking to you, advising you, reserving a puppy for you, and you backed out. $200 is a small deposit and is compensating the breeder for their time they invested in the sale that is now not going through. You should have asked if it was nonrefundable. You didn't. It's a reasonable fee for the trouble the breeder went through in dealing with you. Keeping it for a year is a reasonable alternative. I'd move on if I were you.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I would not buy a puppy from this breeder even if tomorrow you found yourself able to do it justice. I also think you should divulge who it is, since this lack of compassion (really? 2 days? it's not like you waited till the puppy was born and got photos for weeks, etc) is quite telling as to what sort of person she is. 

Also check your state laws- many do require deposits to be refundable. And if she told you anything at all that was untrue (such as dogs fully clearanced and they are not) then I would make a formal written request for a refund due to not only your circumstance but due to her deceit (if she was less than truthful). 

And if you CAN stop payment, DO. DK on the email money transfer, but things like PayPal and Zelle both have change of mind provisions in the period immediately following commitment to purchase, a cooling off period so to speak. Since you didn't take possession of the puppy, you essentially are asking for a cancellation of sale...buyers remorse..... google that w your state name and see what your rights are. And do tell who it is!


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## Zara_golden (Nov 24, 2015)

K9-Design said:


> Okay, honestly, the breeder spent time talking to you, advising you, reserving a puppy for you, and you backed out. $200 is a small deposit and is compensating the breeder for their time they invested in the sale that is now not going through. You should have asked if it was nonrefundable. You didn't. It's a reasonable fee for the trouble the breeder went through in dealing with you. Keeping it for a year is a reasonable alternative. I'd move on if I were you.


First of all, do you know how much she spent talking to me? Couple of one sentence emails. I had to email her multiple times to get a response regarding health clearances and when i didn't hear back, I asked for a call. She then called me and you know how much time she spent dealing with me 10mins. Is that what you call going through TROUBLE? 

I am a makeup artist and I deal with clients on a daily basis. I call them, I email them, I make contract for them, I make timelines for them for their wedding day, I write huge emails to them to make sure things run smoothly...that is what you call having to go through trouble and deserving to keep the deposit. And even then when I had a client in bad situations, I returned their deposits because I am not a cold hearted person trying to make a profit out of someone's bad time.


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## Jmcarp83 (May 4, 2018)

While I was speaking with breeders I had a few tell me that even if their site says it’s non-refundable, if you have a good reason, they’d refund it because they aren’t sending a puppy to a home that someone is either not there or someone who just can’t deal/take care of it. 

As far as stuff...I saw you’re in Brampton and you mentioned Niagra, so if it’s on the Canadian side of things not sure how different laws are there in non-refundable fees. However, in the US some states say non-refundable fees are illegal. Check with PayPal to see if there’s anything you can do.


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## OscarsDad (Dec 20, 2017)

If you feel you have been treated unfairly, small claims is the way to go. Hiring an attorney will cost you more in an hour than the 200 you laid out. Even if your attorney prevails it is unlikely that you will recoup your legal fees. With small claims you need to make sure that you can document that there was nothing communicated in writing about a non refundable deposit either in the e-mails you mentioned or on the breeder's website. I would agree that it is not your responsibility to ask that question. It should be clearly stated somewhere. Keep in mind that you will need to file your claim and appear in the jurisdiction that the breeder's business is located. If they are a distance this will add to your costs in terms of time and travel. It is possible that the breeder will not even appear for that amount and you will be awarded a default judgement. Then you have to collect, which can raise another series of problems. You can hire someone to collect and that can be added to what the court awards. 

I hear how hurt and angry you are. Just need to consider whether letting go and moving on may be less stressful and time consuming than pursuing this, particularly given your family crisis. Not an easy call.


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## golden_boss (Dec 8, 2017)

If this is the way she treats people who want to love the dog and do the right thing by not getting it because their circumstances have changed, then perhaps you don't want this person as a breeder. 
It sucks to lose the money, but it sure sucks less than being in a situation where you'd have to re-home the puppy a day or 2 after you got him. For both you and the puppy. 

200 is a small price to pay to walk away from this situation. 

As the others mention, focus on what's immediate and time critical. Don't throw good time or money after this situation..


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## ryanf (Oct 26, 2016)

I'm sorry to hear that your father-in-law is in such a serious condition. I know it is going to be a very difficult time in the near future. Hopefully his situation will get better.

In short, you are pretty much out of luck since it's a EMT. There is no stop payment. I doubt that you will be able to get your money back. You could take it to court but even paying a lawyer for a consult to discuss your issue would be more than that. I suppose you could try to sue for costs as well but again, I doubt you will get very far. BTW I am not a lawyer but I know a few and have had similar conversations about small claim amounts. 

Since it was only a day or 2 with the combined circumstances I'm surprised they wouldn't give it back, simply for having compassion for you and your situation. Unfortunately like they said, if you would accept a puppy from a future litter, they would just apply your deposit to that puppy, then there wouldn't be a problem. But you aren't doing that. You are turning down accepting any puppy and that probably goes against the deposit stipulations. This is like this for almost all breeders.

If every breeder allowed people to retract their deposit, no mater the reason, they would be left with puppies to care for and their business could become very difficult. After all it is a business even though I'm sure most do it because they love the dogs first and foremost.

Not to be harsh but if $200 means that much to you, and trust me when I say I take money very seriously, you probably shouldn't be getting a puppy. They cost a lot more than that and you will probably spend 10x that on vet bills, or diagnosing a sickness or disorder, etc. when you least expect it. It would have been more challenging if you already had a puppy, otherwise you might have had to give it up.


Who is the breeder? I'm interested since I grew up in that area.


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## djg2121 (Nov 22, 2015)

SheetsSM said:


> Who is the breeder? I see this as a lawyer question & hopefully you have one in the family as you might end up paying more in fees than the deposit.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't understand keeping the deposit when the breeder knows it is not an optimal time to bring a pup home--seems more concerned about getting $$$ than ensuring her pup is going into a stable home that can dedicate its time to raising a pup. If pups were due to go home soon I could see holding the deposit until the pup is sold which I would expect to be quick as a responsibly bred golden is in high demand. On the other hand, if you went w/ a breeder that doesn't do clearances, isn't active in the breed & has several litters on her hands, I'd chalk this up to a costly lesson learned.




No it’s not a lawyer question. It may be a small claims issue that the OP can handle himself if he reviews all of the relevant records from the aborted transaction and can establish that the written agreement did not state that deposit was non-refundable and that the matter wasn’t discussed and agreed to before the deposit was tendered (so as to become part of the sale agreement). I’d be surprised if a disclaimer isn’t somewhere in the deposit receipt or purchase agreement. I’ve owned many Golden’s, and each time I purchased one, I had to pay a significant deposit ($500-600) once the puppies’ feet were on the ground, and each time, it was made clear that deposits were not refundable. This is reasonable, because if I balked, the breeder would have to scurry to find a home for the puppy I had committed to take. 

But even small claims is a waste of your time and money. Your time and effort presumably is worth more than $200. Instead, remain cordial and work things out with the breeder. Tell him/her that you’d like to apply the $200 to the cost of a puppy from a future litter within a reasonable time. Let her know that it may be slightly more than a year away, but you’ll stay in communication and give her ample notice, and likewise, ask her to let you know when new litters are planned to be available. It needs to be a win-win for both of you, and you need to be reasonable in your expectations. You also need to be willing to pay prevailing market price (less deposit) when you do pick up the puppy.

There’s an adage I remind myself of when negotiating: you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. 





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