# Best way to train your golden?



## seb369 (Dec 4, 2008)

I was thinking about the Dog Whisperer but I don't know.


----------



## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

There is no one best way. It depends on your dog... but no matter what way, a sense of humor is good!  There are Dog Whisperer methods I would use on some of my dogs, and there are DW methods I wouldn't EVER try on some of my other dogs. IMO training should be shaped to fit the dog in question- what motivates him, what are your goals, and what is his personality like? What works on a young, always hungry, playful Golden who doesn't even hear me half the time doesn't work on my lazy old Whippet who is shattered if I even raise my voice. And so forth.


----------



## FishinBuddy (Nov 20, 2008)

Agreed with above.


----------



## jnmarr (Mar 7, 2008)

I also agree with ACC... I suggest bonding with your dog.. Let him learn he can trust you no matter what. Be kind and fair.. Remember, he doesn't speak your language.. be sure he understands what you want.. Be firm in your training in a gentle manner. Remember, he gives you unconditional love.. make sure you deserve it..  I have learned something from every book on training I have read.. Like all things in life.. file what what you believe in and toss the rest! I have yet to follow a trainer that I agreed 100% with their methods. Laugh and play a lot! Your dog will love it.


----------



## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I'm trying to think about how I would boil down my training philosophy into the shortest form. I guess I'd say you need to get in your dog's head, since many training mistakes come from treating a dog like he's a person. As far as rewards and punishments, reward freely; correct negatively only when you must. Negative reinforcement can be useful, but it should only be used when it's carefully considered and applied as lightly as possible. 

I think the Dog Whisperer is useful for learning how to interrupt negative, self-reinforcing behaviors and redirecting them. However, I don't think a Golden Retriever would thrive if trained solely with DW methods. He's trained himself on tougher, less sensitive breeds of dogs, and what he seems to do on the show is a lot more physical than you'd need to be with a Golden.

I do like that he's not reliant on treats, since I think they're a useful supplement to training, but lots of training programs rely too heavily on them. I don't like how quickly he resorts to physical jabs at the dog's neck or ribs. He makes them look gentle, and he's certainly not hurting the dog, but it's a very physical way to train that you wouldn't be doing with a Golden Retriever puppy.

Just some thoughts...


----------



## LucyD (Nov 20, 2008)

I have season 3 of DW and it is very entertaining and I definitely think he's great at what he does but most of the techniques he uses I don't think are useful for a golden. I would never treat my Lucy is such ways, but that's just me.


----------



## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

As Tippykayak said, you really need to know YOUR dog. My goldens have all been very different. What worked with one would definitely not work with another.

Even though our Gunner looks like a big bruiser he is VERY sensitive and responds adversely to any stern voice. He acts like we attacked him, other goldens need correction. So really work at getting to know your pup first.


----------



## beargroomer (Jan 2, 2008)

I take tips I can use from different trainers. I love our classes with Stephanie (Flying Quizini) and I find myself nodding my head at the advice FQ gives in our classes and on this forum. She's big on reward based methods with lots of management/prevention/redirecting, rather than harsh corrections. She also focuses on building a relationship with your dog and learning a way to turn on your dog's play drive to interact with you, even around distractions. That is the way I chose to raise my pup and I really like the progress we're making. Rather than being "dominant" over him, I do the "Nothing in life is free" thing instead. When the pup realizes that I control everything he may ever want, I've just naturally asserted myself as his leader. No alpha rolling involved.  I really like trainers that think this way and enjoy anything Ian Dunbar, Jean Donaldson, and Patricia McConnell (among others) have to say. 

I also recently got introduced to a really cool e-book written by Norwegian trainers that use 100% clicker training. I've used a clicker before but always knew that there's someone that USES a clicker and then there's a clicker trainer. It was fascinating to watch video clips of dogs that were 100% clicker trained. I don't know if I have a dog creative and driven enough to be able to train using 100% shaping and I don't know if I'm patient enough, but I have been trying out targeting and shaping and capturing, and both Gibson and I enjoy these indoor games.

Different things work for different people and dogs, but I think reward based ways that focus on building a good relationship work great for Goldens because they're so obsessed with food and fun.


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

beargroomer said:


> I also recently got introduced to a really cool e-book written by Norwegian trainers that use 100% clicker training. I've used a clicker before but always knew that there's someone that USES a clicker and then there's a clicker trainer. It was fascinating to watch video clips of dogs that were 100% clicker trained. I don't know if I have a dog creative and driven enough to be able to train using 100% shaping and I don't know if I'm patient enough, but I have been trying out targeting and shaping and capturing, and both Gibson and I enjoy these indoor games.


Morten and Cecile! I LOVE them!  I had the great, great pleasure of working Quiz with them at Clicker Expo in Jan. of this year. They are WONDERFUL trainers! Did you download their e-book?


----------



## beargroomer (Jan 2, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Morten and Cecile! I LOVE them!  I had the great, great pleasure of working Quiz with them at Clicker Expo in Jan. of this year. They are WONDERFUL trainers! Did you download their e-book?



How cool! I bet Quiz was amazing! I'd love to go to the expo, but the 2009 one is in TX?? I wish I would have known about it this past January when it was here in LA! It would have been so much fun to see Quiz working!

Yeah, I downloaded the e-book. Finished reading it in like an afternoon. I want to read it again more closely. I always thought clicker training was neat, but after watching the video of Cecilie and Morten's puppy learning "heel" I really want to learn more. 
When I was in high school and volunteering at shelters, I met another volunteer person that had soooo many dog training books. I think that lady really got me interested in reading dog books. But it wasn't until right before Gaius came home that I started reading more and watching training and seminar DVDs. So much fun! One of my favorite books was one you recommended, "Control Unleashed." I'd love some more recs!  
I just got Morgan Spector's book and also started reading the series by Terri Arnold. I have no desire to compete; I just bought the books because I thought it'd be fun for me and Gibson to learn the obedience exercises for fun. I'm no where near experienced or skilled enough to even ATTEMPT Terri Arnold's methods (which I know is for serious competition people and trainers anyway and not for average pet owners), but it's still interesting to read. Clicker training is definitely something Gibson and I can play around with and have fun with, though, I think.


----------



## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

I see merit in many different methods. I believe in positive and negative reinforcement with an effort on the positive. 

Being food motivated a lot could be accomplished with Lucky through food rewards. But he needed some negative consequences and firmness especially between 4 and 7 months.


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

beargroomer said:


> How cool! I bet Quiz was amazing! I'd love to go to the expo, but the 2009 one is in TX?? I wish I would have known about it this past January when it was here in LA! It would have been so much fun to see Quiz working!
> 
> Yeah, I downloaded the e-book. Finished reading it in like an afternoon. I want to read it again more closely. I always thought clicker training was neat, but after watching the video of Cecilie and Morten's puppy learning "heel" I really want to learn more.
> When I was in high school and volunteering at shelters, I met another volunteer person that had soooo many dog training books. I think that lady really got me interested in reading dog books. But it wasn't until right before Gaius came home that I started reading more and watching training and seminar DVDs. So much fun! One of my favorite books was one you recommended, "Control Unleashed." I'd love some more recs!
> I just got Morgan Spector's book and also started reading the series by Terri Arnold. I have no desire to compete; I just bought the books because I thought it'd be fun for me and Gibson to learn the obedience exercises for fun. I'm no where near experienced or skilled enough to even ATTEMPT Terri Arnold's methods (which I know is for serious competition people and trainers anyway and not for average pet owners), but it's still interesting to read. Clicker training is definitely something Gibson and I can play around with and have fun with, though, I think.


Clicker Expo was in LA two years in a row... 2007 and 2008 and it was in San Diego in, I think, 2004. I suspect it'll be back in LA soon, as they always do very, very well here. I think you'd also LOVE Kathy Sdao. Check out www.dogsofcourse.com and see when she's coming to LA in 2009. If she has a clicker training seminar, you should totally go! If it happens to be her intro-style one, you should work Gibson!

Hmmm... other books - Have you read Don't Shoot the Dog? It's a great one. Not a training manual, but a great read on the power of motivational training. The Teri Arnold series is great. Playtraining Your Dog is another good one for competitive obedience. Remembering to Breathe and the follow-up book (can't think of the name) are supposed to be brilliant - haven't read them. They're written by an obedience competitor who shows Goldens.


----------



## beargroomer (Jan 2, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Clicker Expo was in LA two years in a row... 2007 and 2008 and it was in San Diego in, I think, 2004. I suspect it'll be back in LA soon, as they always do very, very well here. I think you'd also LOVE Kathy Sdao. Check out www.dogsofcourse.com and see when she's coming to LA in 2009. If she has a clicker training seminar, you should totally go! If it happens to be her intro-style one, you should work Gibson!
> 
> Hmmm... other books - Have you read Don't Shoot the Dog? It's a great one. Not a training manual, but a great read on the power of motivational training. The Teri Arnold series is great. Playtraining Your Dog is another good one for competitive obedience. Remembering to Breathe and the follow-up book (can't think of the name) are supposed to be brilliant - haven't read them. They're written by an obedience competitor who shows Goldens.


I have the Burnham book. Haven't read it yet. I do have "Don't shoot the dog" on my wish list.  Thanks for the recs! I'll check out "Remembering to Breathe." 
You should write a book yourself! Maybe one on early training and preparing/raising a puppy for dog sports! Hehe. You know all of us here at GRF wish you would just go ahead and write a book. 

I do hope the expo will come back to LA! I'll check out Kathy Sdao's site for seminar dates. I want to buy her "Know way Know how" DVDs. 

Clicker training is addictive! Gibson and I are having fun. The first time we tried to do some shaping and capturing, it was so funny. We've been using the clicker so much before that for attention around distractions that instead of busily offering behaviors and trying out different things, he just sat or settled as usual, looking up at me intensely. When I just stood there with the clicker behind my back, waiting for him to do something, he got so annoyed after a while and barked a few times and totally had the look of "Mom! Just TELL me what to do and I'll do it! WHAT do you WANT?!" It was really cute. It took a few sessions but he started trying out a few things. He's better now and starting to be a little bit more creative (still really lazy and would rather lay down and get treats for attention.) and I've captured/shaped one silly behavior that he does consistently that I'm starting to put on cue. (It's just a small mouth movement. He stares at me, opens his mouth and holds it open for a second before closing it. Sometimes he'll make a "huff" sound.) 
"101 things to do with a box" was also fun. At first he was proudly ignoring the box to pay attention to me. After some C/T-ing for showing interest in the box, we got to a point where he rolled the box over and stepped on it and sat and laid down on top of the box. TOO much fun!


----------



## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

beargroomer said:


> You should write a book yourself! Maybe one on early training and preparing/raising a puppy for dog sports! Hehe. You know all of us here at GRF wish you would just go ahead and write a book.
> 
> I do hope the expo will come back to LA! I'll check out Kathy Sdao's site for seminar dates. I want to buy her "Know way Know how" DVDs.


I would LOVE to write a book! I love opportunities to write - it's actually what I went to school for! I have a degree in Journalism and spent five years working professionally in public relations before I made the leap to dog training full time. 

I don't know if I really have the credentials to write a book on dog sports, given that I've only shown two dogs and presently, only in Novice obedience! Morgan Spector is often criticized for having his obedience book when I don't think he's ever titled past Open. On the other hand, if I'm just talking about building a foundation and aren't attempting to teach the actual obedience exercises, maybe it's okay...? I dunno. I'd love to do it, though! 

Kathy Sdao is AWESOME!!! I tend to really gravitate to dog trainers who have a history in marine mammals. She's one of them, as is Ken Ramirez and of course, Karen Pryor. I generally attend Kathy's seminar everytime she comes to Los Angeles, which seems to be annually. It's always at www.jumpstartdogsports.com. She's an amazingly engaging speaker with a wonderful personality and whose mission for kind, reinforcement-based interactions really goes far beyond just training dogs. I've had the distinct pleasure to spend quite a bit of time with her and she's definitely one of my favorites. I have an unending amount of respect for she and her work. I went to the Know Way, Know How seminar - it was great! I've also seen Does the Name Pavlov Ring a Bell, When Pavlov Meets Cujo and her Advanced Clicker Training seminars. All good stuff.


----------



## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

seb369 said:


> I was thinking about the Dog Whisperer but I don't know.


What are your objectives?

EvanG


----------

