# Hunt and Field training plans for the week of Feb. 5-11



## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

I am still stuck driving my spare until I get a whole new wheel so that has put me out for a lot of training, unfortunately  Not sure if I will meet up with my field group tomorrow because it probably isn't a good idea to be driving my spare on dirt roads. In the meantime I subscribed to BowWow Flix and have been watching some Evan Graham.

Plan is to carpool with a friend on Thursday to the pro. I look forward to it!


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Gunner gets a flyer tomorrow. More marks and still doing T work until he is ready to move on (still not solid enough for me). Going to set up the new 35 to 40 yd. walk up and teach him to deal with it.
Weather is great for training here in Texas.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Spent 8hrs today ring stewarding at my club's obedience trial. Knees are killing me, but a friend finished her GMH boy's GMOTCH today in the trial I stewarded and got the HIT in the other (he's a Rooster son.) So it was nice to see that!

Tomorrow we are off to train--taking Breeze, Bonnie, and Butch. Planning a big marking & blinds drill. Marks only for little Bon of course! Will try to remember the camera and get some pics!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Well today was CFHRC's "mock hunt test" which was really quite awesome. We had a HUGE turn out. At least 25 dogs in Started & Senior and not sure how many in Finished but they were running all day too. $10 per dog per stake and the tests were exactly like the real thing except you could run with a collar, modify it somewhat for your dog, and if you messed up you could get help.
I just took Slater & Harvin as my car only comfortably fits two dogs and frankly, Fisher doesn't need it (I may regret saying that come this time next week).
Harvin was in Started and did PERFECT. It was really quite straight forward marks, water first then land. 
Slater in Seasoned, first was land and he was pretty much perfect too. Walk up, double marks with diversion, very short blind (1 whistle) and an honor. He LIKES that gun shot over him!!!!
Water also straight forward, simple double and very simple blind. He was a little slow entering the water on the memory bird and kinda took a few side steps when he got in but he then moved on and swam and got his bird. So I guess that's progress? Better than coming back. Then Slater LEAPT into the water and lined the blind (woohoo).
The judges let me take over in the water series and judge, which was cool, drawing the diagrams and then discussing what I had versus what they saw.

Seasoned/Senior is a difficult level to watch.
Now this was a mock test and not the real thing, so many people in Seasoned knew they were not ready but they figured they were passed Started/Junior so what the heck. Many could not handle so they either didn't do the blind or failed miserably at it. Half of the dogs WON'T GET IN THE WATER. 
I had the strangest epiphany today, and that was NEVER SETTLE for where you are. Always reach higher. There were a group of women at the seasoned stake today who take a stab at senior/seasoned but are woefully unprepared. They don't train by any sort of established method (read : no collar, no FF, no program, no clue), their dogs are of varying talent, but it's the handlers. They come to the line and this is what you hear: "Well I'm not very good with the gun but I'll try. What is next? Do I shoot now? Well my dog sometimes won't sit on the whistle. He has a hard time in the water. I'm worried he'll cheat." The laundry list of excuses for poor performance start before they even get to the line! 
So I waltz up with Slater on the land series and he knocks it out of the park. The judges really complimented me, and one of the ladies in the aforementioned crowd, who was hanging birds, said "Well yeah but she's a Master handler!" 
Like, I woke up one day and found a MH under my pillow and suddenly that's the reason why I don't make myself look like a complete buffoon out there????
They are so comfortable being helpless, and not asking anyone for help, because it is safe. If they got their act together and started actually learning how to train their dogs, suddenly they'd find themselves responsible! 
I may have looked like a million bucks at seasoned but I realize my inexperience at Master so guess what, I'm not going to settle and accept my ineptitude and not try to improve. All those great handlers I see at master, I want to watch them and do like they do and STRIVE for THAT level! Not separate myself and think I can't be like that! 
So anyways, that was an eye opener. In junior pretty much anyone can do it. In master you've weeded out the weekend warriors. In senior it's a mixed bag. You have those who use it as a stepping stone to master and you have wannabes who limit themselves because they are afraid of success.
Now I hope this diatribe doesn't jinx me for next weekend! LOL


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Anney, that was an amazing post, excellent reading, so very well said. Reminds me of people saying to me all the time, "you're lucky your dog is so obedient". Lucky???
Sounds like a good day. I couldn't remember if your tests are/were this weekend or next, guess it's next.


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## Golden Gibby (Jan 8, 2011)

We are chasing pheasants and getting ready for Kankakee River HRC's upland test next weekend. Working on steady to wing and shot. We had a practice day yesterday and hopefully we are ready.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

> "you're lucky your dog is so obedient". Lucky???


Sometimes it's hard not to answer that the way you want to!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I used to go BALLISTIC when people would say that about my kids. "Oh, you're lucky your kids are so well behaved!". I would just smile sweetly (yes, I can be sweet, believe it or not) and say, "Luck had nothing to do with it". But it always annoyed me that people would even say it. 

Thinking more about what Anney wrote. I am about 99.9% certain that Tito would pass a SH test if Dan were to run him. He runs so much better for Dan, because Dan has the experience and knowledge to be a great handler, and it makes a world of difference. But I want to do it myself, even if it will take longer and a lot more attempts to get there. I want to, as Anney said, reach higher rather than settle for where I am.

That said, if I enter him in HRC, which I plan to do, I will have Dan handle him, because of the gun. Also, Dan wants to run him in the Grand Hunt, and I feel that in that case he needs to run him in the stuff that leads up to the Grand, too so they develop teamwork. The Grand, I hear, is pretty darned hard.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I normally just read and learn on this thread and feel funny about commenting at all, but I wanted to say that this quote...



> I may have looked like a million bucks at seasoned but I realize my inexperience at Master so guess what, I'm not going to settle and accept my ineptitude and not try to improve. All those great handlers I see at master, I want to watch them and do like they do and STRIVE for THAT level! Not separate myself and think I can't be like that!


I TOTALLY agree with. There are people like that in all sports. There's nothing like going up and doing something with your dog and having the instructor and other trainers talking about how goldens _always _ excel with certain exercises. Meanwhile you know you trained that golden all week worked him through whatever problems you were having... :bowl:


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

uh yes, this is sort of out of this thread but when Tito got his UDX at 3 years old someone told me that it's only because goldens are born with obedience titles 

ETA---of course, we all know that goldens are by far the smartest, most trainable, best dogs there are, but still, we do have to put a few minutes a year into training them


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> uh yes, this is sort of out of this thread but when Tito got his UDX at 3 years old someone told me that it's only because goldens are born with obedience titles
> 
> ETA---of course, we all know that goldens are by far the smartest, most trainable, best dogs there are, but still, we do have to put a few minutes a year into training them


Yes! I have had an obedience instructor even tell me once, "See, just because you have a golden doesn't mean you have an easy dog." And even if you do have an easy dog they aint getting those titles without training and effort.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Well today opted not to go off-roading on my spare but I did find an empty field close to the house to work on some things. Because she was flaring the line a little I did some wagon wheel with her. It wasn't too shabby but could have been better. I still have to battle with her sometimes on direction. If she sees a bumper to the left or right but not in front of her it can be a problem sometimes because she is da*n sure she knows where I am sending her. This is a problem in general with her.

Then I moved on to modified t. She ran it fairly well, although in new fields she is now wanting to go over before taking the angle back. Toward the end she was fine on angling back.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Went back down to Montverde today to train with several friends. Set up the water blind they ran at the Finished stake in yesterday's mock hunt test. Basically a short cheaty bird to set up a sorta down the shore blind. We did it in one direction then repeated it running from the opposite shore. Ran a double with Slater then a few blinds with him across the pond. He did a great little job. 
Fisher did OK on the blinds rather uneventful but he came back limping from the last one and has hurt his front carpal joint again. Hopefully a few days off will have him back as good as new.


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## Jige (Mar 17, 2011)

If I want to partake in the upland test with my 9mo boy I have alot to work on this week and next. I am going to set up a makeshift blind so we can practice being patient in waiting for our turn. I need to work on off leash heeling off the property. 

One of the guys I train with gave me a good training tip on getting Jige to slow down and use his nose. I have three tennis balls soaking in chucker feathers. Tomorrow we are going to go out and start tossing them in the tall grasses and have Jige " hunt them up". Yesterday at training Jige blew past the down bird twice and then had to work harder to find it. The other 2 birds he was right one top of. He was only 50% at being steady to shot too. I have one more training and 2wks to get ready. 
I have decided that I am only going to do one test instead of 2 on the 19th.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> Where's everyone been??


We have been out training. 

Here is our update.
I hate to jinx it but blinds are coming along. Winter and I seem to be on the same page at the line and I can't tell you how good this feels after our struggles. She is for the most part locking in when I say "good". My instruction is still "not to mess around looking for the perfect line and take a good one when she offers it". Winter is starting to see the different in casting angles and I need to think about just how much angle to give her. This week I thought she was in too much suction and gave a big angle cast (too much) to get her out and she took every bit of it. She then understood the smaller angle cast the other way back to the blind. I was so proud of her. 

It has been really warm here this past week, nearly 60, so that called for a little water work, angled water entries. I learned Winter will take the correct line if my feet/body are pointed at where the mark is landing, thus giving her the line. Also that I need to have that line to the mark drawn in my head before I send my dog and be ready to stop her if she gets off line. 

Lastly, I revisited the beginning of water blind work. It was a short session because the water is cold, just a few bumper across a small channel. Winter remember it all, cast across on "back", cast remotely, stopped on a whistle in water, and turned the correct way with the cast. She did try to flash me a look and not really stop (not sure what it is really called I call it a flash turn) on one cast but a 2nd whistle gave me a full stop and then I cast her the other way and she took it. I dried her off and put her in the car that was warm (not hot) from the sun. She never seemed too cold, and was happy to get back in the water to do more work when my training partners arrived a bit later. Did I tell you we had a good week.

We have a few training days planned this week. I hope my next update doesn't start with "How did it go so wrong?"


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

geez Anney, I hope Fisher is okay FAST!


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Had a fabulous day of training yesterday--only Breeze ended up getting worked because the drill was so involved but it was well worth it and she was showing great improvement by the end of it. My guy took me out to his friend's kennel/training grounds, and we did a marking and blinds drill where the marks are thrown from the same location each time, and you run the same blind, but the running line changes so that the interaction between all of the marks and blinds changes as you shift around the field. Breeze has essentially been on a layoff, so this was a good drill to get her head back in the game. By the end of it her marking was much more focused, she was putting on nice tight hunts in the AOF, and her lines on the blinds, despite increasing complex factors being added were much better.

The aerial shot does not show it, but the field has gentle slopes, and is mowed into patches of cover and pathways. There are also about 20 large round bales scattered through it.

Pictures below show the field, then each subsequent setup, then a cumulative shot of everything overlaid. As usual, the orange lines are the blinds, the other clolours the marks. The last shot is the pond on the property--cannot wait for it to warm up to do water work there!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

wow Shelly, that is very cool. Thanks!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Shelly, as Barb stated, that is really cool! How do you get such a accurate location? Do you use a GPS to mark each spot?


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Blew Gunner's mind yesterday. Gave him a 40 yd walk up flyer. On top of that the first one was a no bird. Second one was pretty much a miss and he wound up going after a not so crippled bird. He did very well. When we got to the water it was a different story. He was so amped up he did a controlled break on the first bird which I should have been prepared for (after the flyer incident), I was watching the bird not him. Overall he did well. On the water honor he did the whole honor with one paw in the air and shaking like a leaf. One wrong move by me and he would have been GONE.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

WOW Shelly that was an AWESOME drill! Holy cow! So tell me, with each "phase" (new line) do you run three marks and a blind, or pick a mark, or what? 
That pond is A-M-A-Z-I-N-G......

Fisher is still stiff today but much less lame than yesterday. He's now had two rimadyl. Need to call the vet and see if they will give me more. I didn't sleep well last night because I kept waking up making sure Fisher was either on the floor or on the bed, I didn't want him jumping off the bed himself. Geeze. Every time he would move I would get up and pick him up and put him on the floor. Weird night.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Laura: I just have a pretty good visual/spatial memory--so I can look at a field or pond from above and recognize where the marks/blinds landed. In this drill the blind is in the same location each time--it is less about handling than getting the dog to look out past all of the distractions in the field and take that mental picture so they will hold the line. The marks also all land in the same spot--the location of the gunner/winger needed to be adjusted as we worked around so that there was a clear arc to see on the longer marks--a couple of the shorter ones were in-throws though. So once I had the LZs identified it was just a matter of mapping out the running lines and then drawing in the marks!

Anney: At each station with Breeze I ran the three marks as singles as the purpose was to build her confidence, marking, and commitment to hunt the AOF--they were always thrown in the same order--so the one that is shortest in the first pic was always mark 1, then the longer one on the right was mark 2, and the long one on the left was mark 3. Those landing zones were always thrown in that order--so sometimes you get long-short-long, sometimes short, short-long, etc depending on how the line position influenced the relationship to the marks. The blind was run after in all 5 setups. Some of the other dogs did multiples or poison bird blinds with it depending on what skills their handler wanted to focus on. There were at least 5 more stations around the outside of that field, so we could easily go back another day and do every other station to get some different interactions. In the summer when the cover is higher it will also be that much more difficult, and the dogs will have to work harder to maintain their lines to the marks. I have a field cut into strips and patterns that I sometimes use up at the conservation area, so I can set up something similar there for myself to build on this, as this spot was about 1.5 hours for me to get to.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Where do you get your ideas for these set-ups? That looks great!


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

GoldenSail said:


> Where do you get your ideas for these set-ups? That looks great!


I cannot take credit for this drill--it is something the property owner set up! It is however something I will take and apply elsewhere!


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## KathyG (Nov 21, 2011)

Shelly, I've copied your maps and can't wait to run this. This is exactly what my cocky boys needs for his confidence. Now, to find the time...

Kathy


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

One of my favorite quick-and-fruitful drills is KRD and this is very similar. Can't wait to run it! 
Shelly another question, what were the approx. distances and do you run everything at once or do one set, put the dog up, come back later and do the next set, etc?


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Ugh rough morning. Left Scout in the car to set-up our modified t. She was totally revved to run it and shot off for the first send. Second send it was like she knew there were three piles and wanted to veer to the right pile to find it (we've run this multiple times, this is only the second time at this location though). Sat her, brought her in and re-sent. Next send she wanted to veer to the left pile that she hadn't been to yet, but I think knew was out there. And she's taking really good initial lines, but then making huge angle turns because she wants to go to *her* pile. Then one time she was just a hair to the right of the back pile so I stopped her and gave her a small left over to get her to the pile. Well, went over that pile and I had to stop her. I went to cast her right over and by this time she had it in her head that she should be going to the left back pile. So, despite the right over she shot off to the left. Argh. 

So, I really think again this is my dog anticipating. If she doesn't have an idea of where it might be she is fine to take direction, but the second she *thinks* she knows where the bumper is or where I am sending her all bets are off. She'll try and go that way no matter what cast I give. I actually saw it in the video of our blind gone wrong. She was taking off before I had even finished giving a cast and clearly heading for where she had picked up the previous blind. It's a good thing I am going to Pete's this week!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Hi Lise, this is normal and I would ask, have you introduced her to indirect pressure yet?
On your modified T pattern field this is an opportune time to introduce it. I would give her two strikes. She gets three chances to take the correct cast, the first two if she gives a cast refusal then you just stop and cast again, the third time she gets a sit-nick-sit (indirect pressure) and cast again.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Thanks Anney, yes I have introduced it to her and did use it today. I need to be better about staying after her but it is hard...particularly with handling because I have never done it before so it can be hard to read the dog and know when to push and when to back up. And I know with her letting her get away with something once and she will do it again the next time because it was allowed before (i.e. letting her out of her kennel without making her wait will make her try to bolt out the next time no matter how long she practiced the good behavior before). Most of my friends don't have a dog like this. They can give their dog more leeway without it seeming to affect performance.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

That would be why I have boys! LOL


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

GoldenSail said:


> Ugh rough morning. Left Scout in the car to set-up our modified t. She was totally revved to run it and shot off for the first send. Second send it was like she knew there were three piles and wanted to veer to the right pile to find it (we've run this multiple times, this is only the second time at this location though). Sat her, brought her in and re-sent. Next send she wanted to veer to the left pile that she hadn't been to yet, but I think knew was out there. And she's taking really good initial lines, but then making huge angle turns because she wants to go to *her* pile. Then one time she was just a hair to the right of the back pile so I stopped her and gave her a small left over to get her to the pile. Well, went over that pile and I had to stop her. I went to cast her right over and by this time she had it in her head that she should be going to the left back pile. So, despite the right over she shot off to the left. Argh.
> 
> So, I really think again this is my dog anticipating. If she doesn't have an idea of where it might be she is fine to take direction, but the second she *thinks* she knows where the bumper is or where I am sending her all bets are off. She'll try and go that way no matter what cast I give. I actually saw it in the video of our blind gone wrong. She was taking off before I had even finished giving a cast and clearly heading for where she had picked up the previous blind. It's a good thing I am going to Pete's this week!


I would be waiting her out on those casts then. If she wants to get out of there fast by autocasting where she wants to go, I would be making her sit a little longer and demanding she be focused before giving that cast. Emphasize that she needs to wait for you to give her direction.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Yeah....I think I am sold that my next one will be a boy.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

The voice of inexperience here, but making Winter wait for the cast seems to have the most impact when she didn't take the previous cast correctly.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Uhh, I got news for you boys will do it too. 



> Next send she wanted to veer to the left pile that she hadn't been to yet, but I think knew was out there. And she's taking really good initial lines, but then making huge angle turns because she wants to go to *her* pile. Then one time she was just a hair to the right of the back pile so I stopped her and gave her a small left over to get her to the pile. Well, went over that pile and I had to stop her. I went to cast her right over and by this time she had it in her head that she should be going to the left back pile. So, despite the right over she shot off to the left. Argh.


As soon as she starts to veer sit her, wait her out, send her to the back pile and I would repeat it several times.. (the back pile). Whatever pile she wants she doesn't get I would sent her to the pile in the opposite direction. If she insists then bring back to point of the foul and recast. I would use attrition first then collar corrections. But I would not let her make the decision on which one to go to. Sounds like you need to slow way down on your casts. Also be ready for popping.
As soon as she veers an instant off the line to that back pile you need to correct (your decision on what you will think will work the best) and I may use a back nick back to drive to the back pile depending on her intentions.

Reading her intentions and anticipating her reactions and correcting as soon as she makes wrong decision is important.

Autocasting and "shopping" I deal with very quickly.
My .02


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Thanks everyone. I don't think boys won't have this problem, just that I've heard from many people that bitches tend to have an agenda whereas boys tend to be more....not sure what word I am looking for.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Compliant.....


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

K9-Design said:


> One of my favorite quick-and-fruitful drills is KRD and this is very similar. Can't wait to run it!
> Shelly another question, what were the approx. distances and do you run everything at once or do one set, put the dog up, come back later and do the next set, etc?


We had three dogs working it on Sunday. We set up the wingers, topped up the blind, and then the first dog ran it. The wingers were reset and dog 2 ran it with dog 1 & 3 honouring (dog 3's handler wanted to work on steadiness and noise issues), wingers were reset again and then dog 3 ran it. We moved to the next station, topped up the blind and went through the same process. Because of the shifting of the line, the length of marks and blinds ranged from 30 yards up to 140 yards or so this time. Some of the stations around the far end of the field would yield marks closer to 200 yards.


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## ashleylp (Jul 23, 2011)

We are working on obedience and recall this week. His recall is normally great but once he gets that bird he wants to run circles. We just got a long line and are getting started on that!!


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

ashleylp said:


> We are working on obedience and recall this week. His recall is normally great but once he gets that bird he wants to run circles. We just got a long line and are getting started on that!!


I remember those days. Winter still will try and parade her bird by the gallery occasionally. I hear it's a Golden thing.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

I can tell you for a fact Radar had an agenda. Cost me a few MH donations to a few clubs before we got it worked out. Unfortunately then we had the accident and could not continue. 
Course then again females kind of have a mind of their own anyway.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I read somewhere, though I don't recall where, it's almost physically impossible for a golden to come directly back with a bird, without at the very least rolling their eyes around a bit to check out the field, see if there's another bird somewhere, etc. Whoever said it said it in a humorous way, but there's often truth in humor.
Labs come straight back. Their only focus is on getting back with the bird. Goldens are more intent on trying to figure out what is going to happen next 



ashleylp said:


> We are working on obedience and recall this week. His recall is normally great but once he gets that bird he wants to run circles. We just got a long line and are getting started on that!!


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Barb,
That is not necessarily true. AFC Bullet (son) AFC (Abbey) always look at the next mark and check them out on the way back (Black Labs). Might be just those dogs but Gunner does it also. I have observed other dogs doing it, but just sayin?
That might be a generalization. I actually that is a good trait (memory for the marks on the ground).


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

When I started Scout did not come straight back, but I would have to say I don't think it had anything to do with her wanting to look for other birds/bumpers or check out the field. It was more of a 'look what I got, look what I got!' and she would prance in little circles.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> I read somewhere, though I don't recall where, it's almost physically impossible for a golden to come directly back with a bird, without at the very least rolling their eyes around a bit to check out the field, see if there's another bird somewhere, etc. Whoever said it said it in a humorous way, but there's often truth in humor.
> Labs come straight back. Their only focus is on getting back with the bird. Goldens are more intent on trying to figure out what is going to happen next


Funny you should say that. While returning with a bird Buffy frequently turns her head to scan the field.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

GoldenSail said:


> When I started Scout did not come straight back, but I would have to say I don't think it had anything to do with her wanting to look for other birds/bumpers or check out the field. It was more of a 'look what I got, look what I got!' and she would prance in little circles.


Kind of like "around the horn" in baseball.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Well, we have our specialty this week on Long Island. The LIGRC is also celebrating its 50th anniversary. I will be working the specialty but I hope to get out Thursday to do some grouse hunting. It is supposed to snow tomorrow. I love finding the wingprints of a flushing grouse in the snow. Hopefully I will have a good day.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

gdgli said:


> I love finding the wingprints of a flushing grouse in the snow. Hopefully I will have a good day.


Finding wingprints must be very cool. Wishing you a good day.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

hollyk said:


> Finding wingprints must be very cool. Wishing you a good day.


Thanks. I have a special love for grouse hunting. Our goldens are outstanding at it because of the "golden nose". I still get a big thrill out of a flushing grouse. Tough hitting them.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

gdgli said:


> Thanks. I have a special love for grouse hunting. Our goldens are outstanding at it because of the "golden nose". I still get a big thrill out of a flushing grouse. Tough hitting them.


It is very exciting shooting when you can get it. The dogs get so pumped when they burst out of the cover! Our ruffed numbers are so down in my area it is rare to get one now.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Radarsdad said:


> Barb,
> That is not necessarily true. AFC Bullet (son) AFC (Abbey) always look at the next mark and check them out on the way back (Black Labs). Might be just those dogs but Gunner does it also. I have observed other dogs doing it, but just sayin?
> That might be a generalization. I actually that is a good trait (memory for the marks on the ground).


I have also seen lots of dogs other than Goldens doing it--Labs, Tollers, St. Poodles.... It is actually something I like to see, too. With my own dogs it is reassuring to me on the line--they are remembering that next mark and thinking about it. It helps me to decide which mark to have my toes aligned with the dog returns to heel because it tells me which one they want next (and in a test I try not to get in a struggle with my dog over which mark to pick up next if they are telling me they know where the bird is.) I also look at it as a positive sign of memory when judging.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Went to Cabela's last night and I found the cutest shirt...and I didn't buy it. I think I need to go back. It had a golden retriever on the front with the words 'Prepare to Be Licked.' I think that needs to be my hunt test shirt 

Also found a fantastic deal on waders. At our local store they were selling their best set for half off and below their cost. I grabbed them and will use them for hunting this fall and I am sure for water training this spring!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

LIGRC is holding a Retriever Hunt Test Judging seminar in April? Can anyone attend or is is open only to judges?

TIA



gdgli said:


> Well, we have our specialty this week on Long Island. The LIGRC is also celebrating its 50th anniversary. I will be working the specialty but I hope to get out Thursday to do some grouse hunting. It is supposed to snow tomorrow. I love finding the wingprints of a flushing grouse in the snow. Hopefully I will have a good day.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Sunrise said:


> LIGRC is holding a Retriever Hunt Test Judging seminar in April? Can anyone attend or is is open only to judges?
> 
> TIA



Anyone can attend, excellent way to get to know the rules.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Sunrise said:


> LIGRC is holding a Retriever Hunt Test Judging seminar in April? Can anyone attend or is is open only to judges?
> 
> TIA


Anyone can attend. This will be held at the County Farm in Yaphank. We hope to set up scenarios in the field and evaluate them. We already have two people coming down from Connecticut.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I wonder if I know them 

It would be a bit shy of a 3 hour roadtrip each way for me with a Hunt Test the following day in Simsbury .. hmmm ... wondering if we could get a few of us together and maybe even take the ferry? 



gdgli said:


> Anyone can attend. This will be held at the County Farm in Yaphank. We hope to set up scenarios in the field and evaluate them. We already have two people coming down from Connecticut.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I'll try to get info for you.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

GoldenSail said:


> Went to Cabela's last night and I found the cutest shirt...and I didn't buy it. I think I need to go back. It had a golden retriever on the front with the words 'Prepare to Be Licked.' I think that needs to be my hunt test shirt
> 
> Also found a fantastic deal on waders. At our local store they were selling their best set for half off and below their cost. I grabbed them and will use them for hunting this fall and I am sure for water training this spring!


I am so glad our nearest Cabelas is three hours away. I would be broke if we had one locally. I've been to your store, spent 2 hours and $200 when it was all said and done.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

DNL2448 said:


> I am so glad our nearest Cabelas is three hours away. I would be broke if we had one locally. I've been to your store, spent 2 hours and $200 when it was all said and done.


DNL, sorry to say it but you're in the lightweight division. Four of us went to Cabela's in PA and spent $2700 between us. Three of the fellows of course used some discretion upon returning home---no tags, hidden credit card receipts, and "oh, I bought that last year". I'm sure you know the drill. My own explaining days are in the past.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Hope your significant others don't read this forum. Otherwise you are busted.
As I was the other day when my wife (taking her get a haircut), noticed two new Golden Lake handlers jackets on the back seat of the truck (dang, forgot to put em up). Is there anything the girls don't miss???


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Radarsdad said:


> Hope your significant others don't read this forum. Otherwise you are busted.
> As I was the other day when my wife (taking her get a haircut), noticed two new Golden Lake handlers jackets on the back seat of the truck (dang, forgot to put em up). Is there anything the girls don't miss???


I always believed that the girls can run rings around us if they want to.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Training went really well today. 
Dan had set up two seasoned level tests, (land only) with wingers and blinds and all, and he ran Tito on them. Both involved walk-ups, a double, and a blind. He would have passed the first one easily. The second one, he ran WAY past the second mark of the double. We stopped him just before he got to Texas. Dan called him back in, and he easily picked up the mark on the way back in. He ran the correct line going out, but just kept going.
What Dan thought happened was that when he sent him he gave a big booming, TAKE IT. Tito is used to me, I say it so quietly that people standing 6 feet from me think he went without being sent. So when Dan gave the big shout, Tito thought it meant a big run. Dan said that even though he overran the mark, it was GREAT to see because it means that he will respond to various levels of voice which is something we need to teach them to do. On the next one he gave a calm "take it" and Tito slammed it. On the way back in we fired both a gun and a diversion bird. Tito sat when the bird went up!!! Not sure how AKC would feel about that, but I guess in UKC where the dogs also upland hunt, that's not considered a bad thing at all.
Did two cold blinds in a row after that, he lined the first one and then got a bit off to the left on the second one. Took a perfect whistle sit, sat square, and waited. Took a lovely right angle back, found the bird right away. Dan and I did the happy dance. Dan is a good dancer.
Then we did 12 single marks, off of two different holding blinds, at about 100 yards out, so Tito would grind into his head that the bird is always within a reasonable distance of the holding blind, not in Iowa or Kansas. They were angle out left, angle in left, angle out right, angle in right, straight out left, straight out right on each blind. He did fantastic on that, nailed some really tough marks through lots of cover changes etc. It's not the first bird he has trouble with, it's the second one, but that's gotten hugely better. Dan says there's no problem there, he just needs to practice it a bit since we didn't do it for so long and did almost exclusively blinds. As I said before, we know his memory is fine, he remember really well where the previous falls went down :doh: or the previous blinds were :doh::doh::doh:.
Finally, just for fun, (and probably set our training back 4 weeks but what the hey, he needs to do this sometimes!) Dan grabbed a big live rooster pheasant, shackled its feet, dizzied him up, and went and planted him in some very serious cover, waist deep to us. Told Tito to "hunt 'em up" and set him loose. Tito did a nice job quartering, flushed the bird, sat, waited for the shot, Dan actually HIT the bird (for a change!) and Tito went and retrieved it out of the cover. The bird was only crippled, and Tito got to chase it a little bit before he got hold of it.
So it was a good day. 
Oh, and Dan cleaned the pheasant for me, and we are going to have the breasts with our dinner tonight!
That's it for us for field, though, for the week because we have agility trials tomorrow, Saturday, and Sunday.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Today was great. Scout did her modified t and on her right angle back she's taking more of an L than a nice angle. So we played around with it a little and determined that stepping to the side plus a straight arm up drove her to take the angle. So that's her angle right for now. Straight backs are no steps. She did pretty well although he identified all of the piles for her and I wasn't doing that anymore at practice.

We then ran a few blinds again with a diversion bird. Yay it is exciting to be back at blinds. She handled well on the blinds (this time). Our homework is to continue the modified t, do some single t again (we'll put them back together) do really long pattern blinds, and I can go ahead and do short cold blinds in practice.

When we were done with the diversion birds and blinds he told me that she was doing very nicely and was introduced to a lot of senior concepts. I said, 'She's not bad for a fluffy, huh?' That's when he said, 'Well she's not one of those show goldens, right?' I grinned and nodded my head. That's when he told me he didn't think she looked like one. Both her parents are champions though. She just doesn't carry the coat and bone that some show goldens do.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Smack him upside the head for me. Hard. 



GoldenSail said:


> 'Well she's not one of those show goldens, right?'


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> Smack him upside the head for me. Hard.


I don't think he meant it that way. But to be fair, he has seen a few of them that are not so great and when you are not purposely breeding for performance you don't always get it. He's really nice and patient when people that have these dogs they want to train that are not 'field' bred--but because they were not purpose bred they don't always have the drive and desire that he likes to see as a field trainer. Anyway, probably don't need to go there with this thread...


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Dan and I were having a conversation today about genetic ability (again) and he was commenting that one of the worst things as a pro is trying to explain to people that their dog just doesn't have what it takes because they weren't born with it.
He has said so many times that it's so much easier to take a dog with a ton of drive, instinct, and even independence and train it to behave than to try to take a dog with no drive or instinct and make it do anything at all. 
He says dogs are like a rope. It's really easy to pull a rope into the right direction, but it's almost impossible to push a rope where you want it to go.


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## MarieP (Aug 21, 2011)

Feels like I haven't trained in forever! I think it was Monday, maybe, possibly Friday? Can't even remember. Anyway, we made it out today to do some T work. I started shorter, more like a mini T, since we hadn't been out in a bit. He did great! I worked a lot on the back casts, which he nailed. He only had one mistake, where he wanted to go back instead of over. But I realized that it was my fault because I had stopped him way past the over piles. So I called him forward, sat him, then he took a great over cast, no problem. 

So yeah, things were good today. I'm in clinical all day tomorrow, 7-7, but hopefully I can get out a few times this weekend. 

We just keep truckin' along


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Brag, shameless bragg

Still working on T work and marks. Land mark pentrating cover. Distance was about 100 to the the cover (fairly thick) and about 15 yds. deep and another 50yds. to the mark. Gunner cheated it the first time but the bird was picked up before he got there with some corrections on sit before got there (never got to the bird). Brought him back in for a rerun. Moved up about 30 yds. he started to cheat again. Sit whistle, he sat on a dime. Straight up right back he took it and actually ran a little fat into the cover. Back up to original line ran it perfect on the way out. Coming back he tried to cheat, stopped him moved to where he had to get to me through most of the cover. He did it, reran it, lesson learned.
This dog is should handle like a dream this another instance where he has handled well and taking casts without "figuring it out for himself"and being part of the team. Proud Papa


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

brag away proud papa!
Doesn't he have a HT coming up soon?


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Junior coming up in the 19th, Should do fine, his water is doing well but we are a little late on decheating. He is cheating on entries and exits a little bit (what I mean by that is he may jump a few feet to right or the left or carry the bank for bit depending on the mark). I don't have the tools yet to correct it. He needs some fine tuning but we are not there yet. Good enough for hunt tests at his level but still needs to be corrected quickly.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

We haven't practiced at all this week until today. Started on the little corner field that has a fair bit of cover, ran from a different spot where the line was up high and about 30 yards out it plunged into a little gully full of tall cover, then up and flattened out. Just walking singles, threw one IN the gully then the next one way deep but in line of that up on the side of the hill.
Today Harvin got to meet a live bird for the first time. He didn't quite know what to do with it but after putting it in his mouth for him then a little brotherly "persuasion" thanks to Slater, Harvin picked it up on his own. Later on we threw a live one as a mark for him and he picked it up! GOOD DOG 
Set up a simple double with short go bird as the flyer, and a shortish blind. Slater did very well, no problem. Lined the blind.
Fisher didn't train but did run around afterward. He is a little tender on his foot but pretty good. Will most likely run him this weekend.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Ran lining drills, blinds, and marks a few times this week. Winter often scallops when a line of trees or bushes are present, but we are working on this. 
I think I made a mistake this week set up a blind this week. I ran her on a long blind, at an angle across a series of small hills and valleys to a blind. Because of the angle to the blind, the left angle back cast was up the hill and the cast to the right was down the hill and I had a hard time getting her to drive back to the blind. After ping ponging left and right a few times I walked in to shorten the distance and squared around a bit so she was running more perpendicular to the hills. Once I did this she would drive back. 

The other thing we really need to work on is getting her to swing with me on doubles. Sometimes she will really lock in on that first bird and just get a glance at the second bird going down. Since we almost always practice with a gun, I would really like her to learn how to mark off of it.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Holly, has your pro given you a drill for learning to mark off the gun? Dan gave me a real easy one, but it does take 2 people.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

You know a lot of people use that drill where someone throws a bumper over your shoulder but personally I think it's kinda hokey.
For me I just do wagon wheel but with a gun. Make them swing with the gun and use your voice if they don't. Sit on a bucket at first if they aren't getting it. In the field DEMAND they swing with the gun and do not let the gunner make noise or move until they have swung with you and are locked onto the gunning station.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> Training went really well today.
> What Dan thought happened was that when he sent him he gave a big booming, TAKE IT. Tito is used to me, I say it so quietly that people standing 6 feet from me think he went without being sent. So when Dan gave the big shout, Tito thought it meant a big run. Dan said that even though he overran the mark, it was GREAT to see because it means that he will respond to various levels of voice which is something we need to teach them to do. On the next one he gave a calm "take it" and Tito slammed it. On the way back in we fired both a gun and a diversion bird. Tito sat when the bird went up!!! Not sure how AKC would feel about that, but I guess in UKC where the dogs also upland hunt, that's not considered a bad thing at all.


Yup, voice inflection can be a powerful tool to cue the dog and drive them back when you need it! Start to formalize it. I cue "easy" before sending on a short bird with a soft send, and "way out" to get my dogs to look past short stations before sending with a hard send on a long bird. It can help the dog determine what you want them to do next when the marks are tight.

As for the sitting on the diversion, any decent AKC judge is not going to be bothered by it. Breeze always sits when a diversion bird is shot because we have a quarter-to-flush in CKC Master tests, and that's what we train them to do when that bird comes out! Breeze actually got some nice compliments about her control when she did that in AKC SH and MH tests where a diversion was thrown.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Shelly, that's GREAT advice about cuing with "easy" and "way out". I'm going to add that into our cues.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

If I remember right, Anney has dogs running in three levels this weekend!! Go Anney, you go girl!


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

I definitely use voice inflection on sending. Length of the mark dictates how loud I send him. And blinds for that matter. I use "easy" and "long" . Don't worry about the judges, run your dog. Had a couple tell me "He likes that "good" doesn't he??


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> Holly, has your pro given you a drill for learning to mark off the gun? Dan gave me a real easy one, but it does take 2 people.


I don't think he is worried about it. I may be a little sensitive to this because we failed the WC because she got LOCKED on the memery bird. If we run a series of doubles in a training session after the 1st double she swings. It's the first double of the day she can get sticky on. I don't think they will give me a warm up double in Senior/Seasoned. 



K9-Design said:


> You know a lot of people use that drill where someone throws a bumper over your shoulder but personally I think it's kinda hokey.
> For me I just do wagon wheel but with a gun. Make them swing with the gun and use your voice if they don't. Sit on a bucket at first if they aren't getting it. In the field DEMAND they swing with the gun and do not let the gunner make noise or move until they have swung with you and are locked onto the gunning station.


Thanks Annie for the wagon wheel drill. Since from here on out, we will use gun or faux gun I would love to get her not only swing with me but marking off the gun. Especially in HRC with the whole sit on a bucket thing, the gun is right at their level.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

My personal opinion is the gun shouldn't affect the dog's movement as much as cueing on your body movements, particular your movements with your legs or feet and moving with you. I would rather the dog be watching the bird and the fall and marking, not the gun. Just my opinion


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Radarsdad said:


> My personal opinion is the gun shouldn't affect the dog's movement as much as cueing on your body movements, particular your movements with your legs or feet and moving with you. I would rather the dog be watching the bird and the fall and marking, not the gun. Just my opinion


In HRC with the handler sitting on the bucket and the marks coming without an attention getting duck call from the field, the dogs do need to swing with the gun--however it should be a *peripheral* awareness, just like with foot or body movements we use standing on the line in AKC/CKC. It can be a pretty useful too since the barrel of the gun should be out further than the dog's head. Since it is required to be carried and shouldered in the advanced levels of AKC I have found that running HRC and having the dog have that awareness that the bird comes out where the gun is pointed has come in helpful to us in Master. I ran a CKC water test last year where there was more than a 180 swing between the first bird down and the go bird. We were on a bucket so I could not do the usual subtle step up to pull her to the right as the birds went down. However if the dog doesn't understand "here/heel" drills and those more subtle adjustments in the first place, there are probably a few tools missing anyhow that will interfere with success!


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

> However if the dog doesn't understand "here/heel" drills and those more subtle adjustments in the first place, there are probably a few tools missing anyhow that will interfere with success!


That's kind of my point and I probably didn't explain it correctly. I don't do that much HRC which I intend to do at some point.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Radarsdad said:


> That's kind of my point and I probably didn't explain it correctly. I don't do that much HRC which I intend to do at some point.


You should! I am more and more convinced that playing in both venues makes the dog stronger in each because of how the necessary elements enhance each other across the games.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

sterregold said:


> You should! I am more and more convinced that playing in both venues makes the dog stronger in each because of how the necessary elements enhance each other across the games.


I wholeheartedly agree, but right now I am training my pup in Field Trials and Hunt Tests. Some skills have to be learned before doing all three. I have to focus on those skills that will make him successful.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Radarsdad said:


> I wholeheartedly agree, but right now I am training my pup in Field Trials and Hunt Tests. Some skills have to be learned before doing all three. I have to focus on those skills that will make him successful.


I agree--my point is that in some venues we tend to focus on elements which are perceived as being more important there. I find that training as if I will be running in any of the venues makes the dog a more solid performer all round. The gun stuff is becoming more important in AKC hunt tests because of the recent rule changes.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

My pro told me that if you train for a field trial then hunt tests are easy (he does both, but really considers FT to be the elite, at least for labs). Now I wouldn't want to get carried away with doing lots of excessively long marks and blinds...but some is good!


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

sterregold said:


> I agree--my point is that in some venues we tend to focus on elements which are perceived as being more important there. I find that training as if I will be running in any of the venues makes the dog a more solid performer all round. The gun stuff is becoming more important in AKC hunt tests because of the recent rule changes.


Good point, ( seems like more UKC influences creeping in) and I have noticed that and will train for it fairly soon. Right now we have other issues we need to train for and the gun is fairly easy to train with the other heel/here issues in place. I feel that if you get the basics concepts solid it is an easier transition to the others. Another thing is that if you train only to swing with gun you take away advantages of heel/here as to where you want your dog to be lined to. 
Your thoughts??


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

GoldenSail said:


> My pro told me that if you train for a field trial then hunt tests are easy (he does both, but really considers FT to be the elite, at least for labs). Now I wouldn't want to get carried away with doing lots of excessively long marks and blinds...but some is good!


I train for both. Balance is the key and FT judge will tell you the hardest marks for a FT dog are the short ones. You have to train for both. Makes HT marks easy.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Radarsdad said:


> Good point, ( seems like more UKC influences creeping in) and I have noticed that and will train for it fairly soon. Right now we have other issues we need to train for and the gun is fairly easy to train with the other heel/here issues in place. I feel that if you get the basics concepts solid it is an easier transition to the others. Another thing is that if you train only to swing with gun you take away advantages of heel/here as to where you want your dog to be lined to.
> Your thoughts??


I would concur--it really is vital in basics to do that work on lining so you have the tools in place to do selection if the order thrown is not the most advantageous order in which to pick the marks up. Most of the HRC guys I know with strong dogs do all of that wagon wheel and other lining work so that they know the dog will go as sent. I only start to add the gun in in some training situations once the dog is steady, as before that there is not much point.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Radarsdad said:


> My personal opinion is the gun shouldn't affect the dog's movement as much as cueing on your body movements, particular your movements with your legs or feet and moving with you. I would rather the dog be watching the bird and the fall and marking, not the gun. Just my opinion





sterregold said:


> In HRC with the handler sitting on the bucket and the marks coming without an attention getting duck call from the field, the dogs do need to swing with the gun--however it should be a *peripheral* awareness, just like with foot or body movements we use standing on the line in AKC/CKC. It can be a pretty useful too since the barrel of the gun should be out further than the dog's head. Since it is required to be carried and shouldered in the advanced levels of AKC I have found that running HRC and having the dog have that awareness that the bird comes out where the gun is pointed has come in helpful to us in Master. I ran a CKC water test last year where there was more than a 180 swing between the first bird down and the go bird. We were on a bucket so I could not do the usual subtle step up to pull her to the right as the birds went down. However if the dog doesn't understand "here/heel" drills and those more subtle adjustments in the first place, there are probably a few tools missing anyhow that will interfere with success!


OK, so get her moving with me, _all the time_, without the gun, then teach her how to mark off of the gun, a useful but separte skill. I think I was lumping them together.
Winter will move when prompted, but she does not always move with me on her own. 
The upside of this is I'm never called out for my dog head swinging on singles.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

hollyk said:


> OK, so get her moving with me, _all the time_, without the gun, then teach her how to mark off of the gun, a useful but separte skill. I think I was lumping them together.
> Winter will move when prompted, but she does not always move with me on her own.
> The upside of this is I'm never called out for my dog head swinging on singles.


Rather than a separate skill, I would call it an extension of the moving-with-you skill. They need to learn the fine adjustments of here/heel first and then you can add to gun to it as a different cue.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

sterregold said:


> Rather than a separate skill, I would call it an extension of the moving-with-you skill. They need to learn the fine adjustments of here/heel first and then you can add to gun to it as a different cue.


OK, that make sense. So much to learn.


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