# Buying a puppy with an underbite



## Anon-2130948gsoni (Apr 12, 2014)

I'll be really interested to see what the forum breeder experts have to say about this...our first rescue Golden had a significant underbite because her lower jaw was longer by about a half inch. In a case like that, I don't see how removing baby teeth would have changed anything? It didn't bother her a bit and since she was always smiling anyway, it was hard to tell, really.

If you're paying top dollar, though...hmmm. Hopefully the people who know will be along soon.

ETA: I'm wondering about behavioral implications of pulling their baby teeth...not to mention the trauma. It doesn't seem very humane? Learning bite inhibition from littermates is so crucial to their development into polite dogs and how does that happen without teeth? If this is purely a cosmetic issue, why not just leave them alone? I'm a little surprised a vet would recommend this?


----------



## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

Like Noreaster I too am impatient to see what people think. My last dog had a moderate underbite.. I would not have known to be honest .. she was gorgeous and I never had any problems. The only thing was that she could not be confirmed as a show dog, the breeder told me that from the outset, and I bought her for less than other pups in the litter. (Showing my dog was never an objective for me) Are they suggesting that you do all these things like taking teeth out for medical reasons and for the health and comfort of the pup?? Or purely for esthetic reasons??


----------



## mygavin03 (Jul 5, 2009)

I am not interested in showing the dog either and I have not seen pics to see how severe it is. She said she would only recommend the teeth pulling if I wanted to show the dog. I have a call into my vet to see their opinion. I wouldn't even necessarily mind taking the dog with the bite issues but I am not sure that I should be expected to pay the agreed amount for the dog. For reference, this dog is $1700. The breeder has been doing it for 25 years and said she only has had one other pup with an underbite in all of her time.


----------



## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

mygavin03 said:


> I am not interested in showing the dog either and I have not seen pics to see how severe it is. She said she would only recommend the teeth pulling if I wanted to show the dog. I have a call into my vet to see their opinion. I wouldn't even necessarily mind taking the dog with the bite issues but I am not sure that I should be expected to pay the agreed amount for the dog. For reference, this dog is $1700. The breeder has been doing it for 25 years and said she only has had one other pup with an underbite in all of her time.


My breeder was selling her dogs at 1000 dollars ( this was around 8 years ago). She was the one who told me immediately she would not expect me to pay the full amount and we settled quickly on 750. To be honest money was not the issue for me but in principal I can not see why the breeder would expect you to pay full price for a dog which is not breed standard and who may possibly have extra vet fees as a result. I would imagine that a responsible breeder would be more concerned about finding pup a home (depending on the severity of the problem) Seems a bit off to me!! NOTE I do not have any experience of breeding dogs so other forum members please do not jump on me for my comments!


----------



## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

deleted post...


----------



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

It would depend on the amount of the underbite and what I was doing with the dog to me. 

Show breeders tend to be ultra aware of bite issues as it is one of only two DQ in the ring. My preferance for a show puppy is to have a slight overbite at 8 weeks as the lower jaw generally grows for a long period of time that the skull. 
But, I have seen puppies with normal, overshot and undershot bites at 8 weeks endup with good bites. 

If I was hunting that bite would be a big deal to me too as a proper scissors bite is needed for carrying game well. 

As a pet, it will likely, unless severe just be more of a cosmetic issue. Remember there are breeds out their whose standard calls for undershot. Granted they are not sporting dogs.

As far as pricing, if I were the breeder and it was a slight under bite, I would not place it in a show or performance home because of the bite. A companion home would be my preferance and I doubt I would discount for what I would consider a cosmetic issue. Just as I would not discount a puppy with a back patch or white makings. The Puppy is coming with all the same health history, care and attention. If the dog required surgery I would either keep the dog or work to find a very special home and then the puppy would likely be discounted or free. 

Those are just my thoughts.

By the way, I think the fact the breeder is telling you about this is a mark of a good breeder. Honestly, how many people outside of show/performance folks think to check a bite? A lesser breeder might not even know about it or not share the information with you. How lovely that this breeder is letting you know ahead of time, discussing options and giving you time to think on it!


----------



## mygavin03 (Jul 5, 2009)

Ok, this is the update. She took the litter to a vet today who specializes in dentistry and he recommended the surgery. Here is what she said in her email:

DVM today who specializes in dentistry & he would recommend it. It might make a difference but can't confirm it would make any difference. Anesthesia is a risk. He is going to email me an estimate for extractions & a letter about his evaluation. Basically, he said it is a gap that might be an issue, but with or without pulling teeth would not effect the overall health and longevity of a companion. Pulling teeth might make it better if genetically able to develop. Some teeth currently could prevent jaw movement, like braces do. That is the scoop.

Anyone have an opinion? Surely I am not on the hook to pay for the surgery in addition to the cost of the dog? At this point would you ask for a discount on the dog? I am going there tomorrow to see the puppies and will talk with her about it then. I am totally conflicted!


----------



## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

I would ask the breeder what's expected of you, pay wise. Don't assume you won't have to pay for it. Better safe than sorry, in my opinion.


----------



## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

mygavin03 said:


> Ok, this is the update. She took the litter to a vet today who specializes in dentistry and he recommended the surgery. Here is what she said in her email:
> 
> DVM today who specializes in dentistry & he would recommend it. It might make a difference but can't confirm it would make any difference. Anesthesia is a risk. He is going to email me an estimate for extractions & a letter about his evaluation. Basically, he said it is a gap that might be an issue, but with or without pulling teeth would not effect the overall health and longevity of a companion. Pulling teeth might make it better if genetically able to develop. Some teeth currently could prevent jaw movement, like braces do. That is the scoop.
> 
> Anyone have an opinion? Surely I am not on the hook to pay for the surgery in addition to the cost of the dog? At this point would you ask for a discount on the dog? I am going there tomorrow to see the puppies and will talk with her about it then. I am totally conflicted!


To me it sounds like surgery is not a necessity.


----------



## BuddyinFrance (May 20, 2015)

There are a lot of "mights and might nots" in that email aren't there. It is not at all clear and feels almost like a disclaimer. Not really that helpful to you. Someone posted here earlier that it was lovely of the breeder to point out the problem and that most people would not notice. I don't necessarily share that point of view. I think all responsable breeders doing their job would do the same. Where I live the" bite" is one of the things the vet évaluâtes before the dog is sold and is marked on the presale health check. And the contract of sale needs to stipulate if there is a "possibility" that the dog is not confirmable and why. And there would be no question of the breeder then expecting to obtain the same price as a pup which looks perfect on sale. And if she is seriously expecting you to pay surgery charges I would run for the hills. I don't know how easy or difficult it would be but is it realistic to take pictures today to show your own vet? In your shoes I would proceed with caution. Pups are a huge investment, and vet fees can add up quickly. As much as we would all want to take on every puppy if we can there has got to be some sense of prudence when buying. Lots of luck. I know it is hard juggling heart and head. Especially with our lovely GRs


----------



## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

mygavin03 said:


> Hi all! This may be a long question so please bear with me...
> 
> We put a deposit down on a puppy several months ago from a breeder that comes highly recommended as well as being recommended by our local golden retriever club. She just informed me that several of the puppies are developing an underbite. She has bred the mother before and has never had this issue before (I understand there is some genetic component.)
> 
> ...


The real question is what are your goals and aspirations for the dog?

Is the undershot so severe that it is hampering the pups ability to function, or is it simply cosmetic?

If you're planing to show and/or breed you should look for a different pup/litter. If the pup's role is to be a pet and it's able to function normally at this point, I don't think I would put it through a surgical procedure of this magnitude for simply cosmetic reasons.


----------



## Anon-2130948gsoni (Apr 12, 2014)

How many teeth are they talking about extracting?


----------



## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

If you just want a pet companion and he can live normally without surgery I wouldn't hesitate. Just get your puppy.


----------



## mygavin03 (Jul 5, 2009)

The goal for the puppy is to be a family dog. The dog dentist wants to pull all of the top teeth in hopes that the bite will correct when the new teeth come in. There is no guarantee either way. It is not simply an aesthetic reason as underbites can present problems down the road and require tooth extractions anyway.


----------



## BlazenGR (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't think there is any scientific basis for removing the upper (or any) teeth hoping that the bite will correct. If the pup has an underbite, it means that the lower jaw extends past the upper, and recklessly removing teeth on a hope seems to be grasping at straws.


----------



## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I have a show dog with a perfect bite. I also have 2 non-show dogs with under bites. They are just fine. One has competed in the field just fine. Neither have had any issues eating, chasing balls, etc. Bites will change a bit and 8 weeks is really young. I'd say go for it and not bother with the surgery unless there is an issue with eating or something that is causing pain. My dogs are just fine with their under bites.


----------



## Anon-2130948gsoni (Apr 12, 2014)

Here's the question I would still have...puppies have those needle teeth so that they learn from their mom and their littermates how to inhibit their bite. A dog who knows that his teeth need to be controlled and learned that from birth is a more reliable dog with everyone. Does that learning still happen with only the upper teeth?

If it were me, I wouldn't do it. I just don't see why it's worth putting a puppy through multiple extractions for something that's cosmetic?


----------



## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Sheesh...I have seen so many dogs with under bites and quite frankly, it is usually a non issue. Just look at breeds like bulldogs and boxers where it is the norm. I had a client whose E Cocker had the incisors extracted but the breeder's dentist. The dog never had a proper bite and had a a wry mouth, I suspect due to a green stick fracture which likely occurred with extractions....


----------



## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

And I have seen bites change as others have said. Although as others have said, in general, the mandible grows more slowly than the maxilla....


----------



## jpajinag (Nov 25, 2010)

I think there are a lot of unknowns. First is how bad is the underbite and will it require surgery or is it cosmetic only? Second is $1700 for a show dog or companion pet? Is this the same price for all companion pets regardless of bite issue? If it is a severe issue and requires surgery then yes there show be either a discount or something. Definitely lots of questions that you need to ask. Sorry no experience with underbite a and certainly do not see how pulling teeth now affects jaw growth. Good luck with your baby


----------



## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

Like others here have said, I would only do the surgery if the underbite is causing the puppy pain, or affecting his/her ability to eat. It doesn't sound like either of these are the case, so I would opt against it. Try to get some pictures when you go visit, and have fun!


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I would not pull the teeth of a puppy. An underbite has to do with the jaw, the teeth are just the visible manifestation of jaw position. I've pulled teeth if they have not fallen out when the secondaries come in but I cannot imagine an underbite so bad that the deciduous teeth have to go. 
Even if they do go, I cannot understand how that would correct a bad bite.


----------



## mygavin03 (Jul 5, 2009)

Thanks all! We went to visit him and of course he is just the cutest! She is going to discount the dog the cost of what the surgery would be but I don't think we will do it. We will bring him to our vet but unless the bite starts to present problems we will just leave it be!


----------



## Minion (Jun 20, 2015)

We had pbgv's, still have a few. Would have a puppy with an undershot jaw here and there so we would have all the anterior teeth pulled at about 12 weeks. Never any issues from anesthesia. Reverse when done. Puppies do fine, never aware anything done, can continue to eat as before. Of course, these were placed as pets. Very inexpensive. Your regular vet should be able to do this for you.


----------



## Minion (Jun 20, 2015)

To add, every time we did this the permanent teeth came in as a good scissors bite. It frees up the lower jaw so it can grow. Do not pull the canines


----------



## MGMF (May 13, 2009)

It is difficult to give opinion based on the unknown of how severe of a misalignment your puppy bite. I would think if it is to the point the breeders vet is recommending surgery it is significant. If taking on this puppy and it possible care it will need is something you can do then go for it. I would think the breeder would adjust the cost for mediacal care and be glad to know a family is going to stand by the puppy's needs. Before removing any teeth I would take the puppy to a canine dentist for a in depth evaluation. Not the breeders or your regular vet. A canine dentist will be able to give you the best opinion of what is in store for this puppy. I would expect you would then follow with the dentist until the full adult teeth are in place. A good general Vet will work with the dentists recommendation for the best care of your new baby.


----------

