# April Field Training 2014



## MillionsofPeaches

Hey everyone its finally getting hot here! High of 85 this afternoon. Today was drill but finally we started using the collar. It went way better than I could have imagined. I'm glad I waited for so long because I really feel in my heart that she is ready and I think this is going to clean up and quicken a lot of her issues right now. So that is my big training thing today! What is everyone else up to?


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## Loisiana

Got the Bill Hillmann puppy DVD in yesterday. I had a friend that used to train with him at his place in Texas and she recommended it.


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## hotel4dogs

looks like we are going to get rained out again this week


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## FTGoldens

Loisiana said:


> Got the Bill Hillmann puppy DVD in yesterday. I had a friend that used to train with him at his place in Texas and she recommended it.


I thoroughly enjoyed learning the puppy training methods used by Bill, especially the traffic cop ... as for the guitar music, not so much. 
More recently I bought Bill's DVD on his version of Force Fetch and I'm looking forward to implementing his ideas on my youngest. (I started the "old" way of FF and it just didn't go well ... I've FF'd at least a dozen pups using the old way without any real problems, but the current prospect is a real pill, so I'm trying something different.) Fortunately, he changed the music. Notably, however, the FF DVD shows Bill's very methodical practices, so it seems to last longer than it really is.  
Bill has a unique approach to young dog training, which many of the country's top trainers, particularly some top amateurs, have adopted. I think you will not only benefit from it, but will also enjoy implementing his approach.
FTGoldens


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## Alaska7133

I've noticed one reoccurring theme in Bill's videos, play with your dog before, during and after training. He wants you to be throwing fun bumpers. I watched a video the other day on 3 handed casting. After a couple of overs, he threw the bumper in a pond. The dog brought the bumper back and he resumed casting. He gets them happy and excited then off on another cast. Kind of an interesting approach. I always thought you should have play be separate from work.


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## MillionsofPeaches

Stacy my trainer kind of plays during drills, I guess. With my girl he'll throw fun up up bumpers but on the way there or back he'll work on whistle sits and simple signals. I think it helps her a lot more than nonstop drill.


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## hotel4dogs

My trainer, too, throws in some motivational fun during drills. As the dog progresses, there's a longer time in between motivations and the drills get longer.


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## Jige

We got hit with another 5inches of snow on Monday and I hear talk about another system coming through the area. I have been working Jige the best I can on ice and snow covered land but it has been a hard winter. I am hoping that this next week I can get out and do some pile work and not sure what you all call it but we call it ladder work. Some stuff I can do out on the road. Plus working on whistle stops/sits since we getting this down when the -25 below winter started.


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## boomers_dawn

We trained with our master group members last night.
They did triples, first water mark of the year, and blinds; but Gladys is supposed to take it easy, have no stress, and no swimming, so we only did singles. 
I was kind of bummed to be left behind, but that's just the way it is. 
One of the others got their first tick yesterday, so Gladys is now done going outside period until late June/early July, at which time we'll get her back in shape and get her going again. I guess I have no agenda this year except her health and happiness.

Dee Dee did all singles - and not that great either. 
I got home from work too late to do drills today ... tomorrow's another day... I think the master group is going back out, if my work calendar allows I will try to go.


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## Alaska7133

Dawn,
What happened to Gladys? Late June is a long way away. That would be tough to take.

Headed out to meet up with the group. We've added a couple of spaniels. That should be interesting. Hope the tollers are all there. Lucy is doing great on drills, but it's day by day and who knows what she'll be like today. I saw an interesting video of Connie Cleveland doing 2 walking singles, then a walk out blind. But doing the singles first after the dog sees the blind. I think I might try that with Lucy tonight. We're still on simple stuff. But we're having fun. Reilly is full of spunk right now. He gets so crazy when it's his turn. It's hard to not enjoy his enthusiasm!


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## boomers_dawn

Alaska7133 said:


> Dawn,
> What happened to Gladys? Late June is a long way away. That would be tough to take.


I co-own her with Barb who wants to keep her end of the line going - so hopefully she is with child ... er .. pups.

Have fun with the group!


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## Alaska7133

Puppies!! Very cool!


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## gdgli

We had our last continental shoot of the season. It was lots of fun even though it was raining on an off.

Question: Why does Buffy insist on rolling in deep water filled tire ruts? She comes up covered in mud.


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## boomers_dawn

gdgli said:


> We had our last continental shoot of the season. It was lots of fun even though it was raining on an off.
> 
> Question: Why does Buffy insist on rolling in deep water filled tire ruts? She comes up covered in mud.


a) Because it's like a doggie spa
b) So she can go home and roll on the couch and bed


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## abradshaw71

Newbie here! :wavey: Got a rope to begin working on recall with Josie. That is our main focus for the next couple of weeks. Her obedience class begins the 14th and we meet with a trainer on the 19th! So excited, but very nervous too. Supposed to have rain and high winds beginning this afternoon, but sunshine and better weather for the weekend. Michigan really needs to start drying out.


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## Alaska7133

Got to work with a spaniel last night. It was a little frustrating watching them quarter on a retrieve when you were the thrower. Us retriever people think they are having trouble finding the bumper or bird and want to help them. I think the spaniel person wanted to tie our arms down so we wouldn't help. It was interesting watching them quarter. I think there is a lot to learn. This springer was a typical high energy but well trained dog. The owner is only 19 yrs old. I wish I had gotten started when I was her age. Good to see kids out there.

The birds have started arriving this week from the south. It was very different seeing gulls and ducks in the air after so long without. They are a bit early this year so I hope that means an early spring. The lakes and marshes are still very frozen. Snow in the forecast this weekend.


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## boomers_dawn

Hey the icebergs are all melted! We have just a few lumps of snow in our yard, and everything is mostly dried out!!

Work schedule yesterday allowed me to weasel out on lunch break w/ master group. The others did single marks and blinds with concepts.
Gladys stayed home :'(

Dee Dee did long marks with white bumpers. I think she could have gone... all... the... way...!!! but our thrower was anxious to help with momentum and distracted her twice swinging the bumper and re-throwing when she was getting there. Oh well life is too short to yell at people over that and I'm sure Dee Dee already forgot. Plus it was my choice to leave it to his judgement to decide if she was losing momentum, if I didn't want that, next time I should tell him wait for my signal. Another lesson.

Dog skool teecher said he's alternating marks and drills so I'll try same, today will be drill day. We can do drills in our front yard, the grass looks dead so probably no ticks, then Gladys can do them too for fun. Tomorrow is a wash for family stuff, then next week we'll alternate drills and do marks when we can catch up with our group.

Happy training to all, hope our neighbors with worse weather are melting and drying out too.


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## Vhuynh2

Molly did her very first cold blind today. We had been doing a lot of sight blinds and memory blinds. I asked my trainer how to troubleshoot different problems before sending her, completely expecting her to either not go, or go out and hunt, or run confused without direction, or all of the above. She lined it! WUUUTT?? What an awesome surprise, but I don't expect her to be able to do that again. Sometimes she does things the first time without thinking, and then she starts to think about it and it doesn't go as well.

The bad news is that Molly has severely regressed in water marks. We stopped working in water in the fall and started handling. For a month or so her marking (on land) went way down but it has come back up since then. Now we are working in water and she doesn't seem to be marking. I wonder if it could be related to the handling (I hope that there is a reason other than she's just a bad marker in the water now lol). Last spring/summer, she was able to do much more difficult marks, ones that are not visible and required her going over both land and water. Now, if she cannot see the mark out there, she will swim out part way and turn around for help. I don't know if she's just yanking my chain or what. I have been casting her back, but now I'm thinking maybe I should just tell her to fetch.. or cast back but say fetch instead? That's something to ask the pro when I see him next.

What a good idea it was to type this out. It's a good way for me to think about things more thoroughly. When I think about this stuff in my head, it's like I'm skimming through a book and skipping lines.


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## Loisiana

So, I think Flip got his second JH pass today. I decided I didn't want to wait for hours to find out for sure, a nap on my couch was really calling my name. So I will check entry express this week to find out for sure.

Flip got his first pass around this time last year. This is our first test since then, and that's all we're entering this season (we only have a month left to our test season here). I guess we're taking the long route to getting the JH - hope we finish it before he's considered a veteran! LOL

I thought it was a fairly difficult test for junior, a lot of dogs failed. I was getting nervous when it took five dogs, including the test dog, before we saw someone pass land.


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## boomers_dawn

Jodie.. what? A nap? instead of collecting your ribbons!!! Well good job and congratulations I hope, LOL.

Vhuynh2 that was so exciting, your first cold blind! Our dog skool teecher said working on blinds does decrease marking. In the past if we were working on JH or WC he said not to work on blinds until after tests. Once they get experience, it seems to not be a problem.

Dee Dee did long backs outside today. She didn't go a few times, stared at me, got distracted on the way back. I just ran at her / with her. I remember it took Gladys a while to get it too.


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## Vhuynh2

Pro said to do only pure marking for 10 days before test. Now I'm freaking out about the water series in Junior.. ugh!! I have never seen a junior test, so I hope they're not as difficult as I'm thinking they might be and that I'm overreacting.


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## MillionsofPeaches

I have a video on FB that is my dog's junior water just this past weekend. Do you want me to tag you on it? Let me know your screen name


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## MillionsofPeaches

So we have done two days of collar conditioning and I'm so excited. She is doing really well and in turn at home she is doing much better without the collar too. It is showing me that she knows all the commands just fine, she just didn't feel like it. I am such a novice, I wasn't sure but I was pretty sure so I'm glad this is validating it for me.


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## Vhuynh2

MillionsofPeaches said:


> I have a video on FB that is my dog's junior water just this past weekend. Do you want me to tag you on it? Let me know your screen name



Yes! Thank you!


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## Vhuynh2

Are the marks in the water series in Junior typically on land? I think in Started they're actually in the water, but I haven't watched many of those, either.


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## hotel4dogs

I've seen probably an equal number of water marks on land and on water in JH.


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## Alaska7133

MOP,
How are you doing your collar conditioning? What order are you doing the commands? Just wondering since we did recall awhile back and now just started on sit.


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## Loisiana

Yesterday's juniors test for us: 

for the first mark the dog went through water, across a peninsula, back through water, and about 15 feet onto land.

Second mark you couldn't actually see exactly where the bird landed, but the dog went through water, across a peninsula, and for some dogs it seemed the bird was right on the edge of the land there, others were just a little bit in the water. You couldn't actually see the dog once it crossed that peninsula.


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## Loisiana

Here's my nonartistic version of what I remember from yesterday. Not drawn to scale.


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## MillionsofPeaches

that is more like mine with the water going over land. My trainer said around here that is very typical.

Stacy I'm watching the trainer work on it with her and he started her on heel sits and then to sit/stay then to heel then to come faster. then he did some hand thrown bumpers and he did whistle sits/ backs and she did everything right. Then the next day he sent her out on thrown birds and hand signals. She did everything right and seemed to realize this isn't her decision any longer. So it "appears" that she knows all the commands that I've been teaching her she has just chose to do them half assed because she doesn't like this part. She likes going after marks and that isn't all there is to it. So at the very least at least all that time I've been putting into her did stick and she did learn. She was just being lazy.


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## Alaska7133

MOP,
I asked my DH this morning at breakfast how I was doing with Lucy. He thinks she is not as easy to train as some of our other goldens have been. He thinks she only wants to do what she wants to do, and like what's in it for me, is her attitude. For example Reilly we taught in 3 throws that we wanted him to come in with the bird and do a swing finish, and sit, then hand off the bird. It was very simple. He is eager to please us. He remembered quite well, and never has to have it be reinforced. With Lucy I feel like it's a constant battle of wills. Hers or mine, who's going to win today? I get a little tired of it and sometimes honestly I don't want to train that day because I don't want the fight. Do you feel like that with your girl ever, or is she pretty eager to please?


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## hotel4dogs

Jodie, I am so happy to see you here!!!


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## Loisiana

:wavey:

I'm hoping this summer to join a training group, so I might stick around 

Just finished the first disc of Bill hillmann puppy


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## MillionsofPeaches

Stacey as far as all of that stuff she figured that out really fast and when it comes to marking and watching and retrieving birds she really likes that. Her problem is blinds because she doesn't want to do it. She hates it so she'll ignore my whistles and over commands. It was getting ridiculous so hopefully this will all correct her. Now my younger one plays those games with coming into a finish she is stubborn sometimes.


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## Vhuynh2

Loisiana said:


> Here's my nonartistic version of what I remember from yesterday. Not drawn to scale.


Thanks! That looks more difficult than all the YouTube videos I've been watching of Junior tests.

Our club had a training day today and I was able to run the Finished water marks as singles. She did turn around on me once but I told her to fetch and that was that. She tried to run around the pond on the third mark but I immediately called her back and resent her and in the water she went.

We did this really fun breaking drill in a layout blind. It was designed to make the dogs break. Tons of noise, gun shots, and two birds thrown at the same time. Molly spent the whole time freaking out about being enclosed in the layout blind that I think she missed the whole point of the exercise. We did it again on the bucket and it was a lot of fun. On the _third_ try I was brave enough to try not holding her collar. She didn't break!


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## Loisiana

Tonight Phoenix worked on the first steps of a formal retrieve. He makes it look so easy!


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## hollyk

Hunt test season has arrived. The first test of the year was 4 hours south a couple of week-ends ago. We were not entered. I heard the MH was a hum dinger, tight in line marks, 19 of 49 passed. Nasty weather too, a friend said mud to the ankles and standing water often up to mid calf.
So in honor of that test, today's set up had a set of in line converging marks. This was run in a swale. The yellow line defines the top of the swale. All marks fell behind small mounds and the 2nd mark the dog did not see the full arc to ground. We ran ducks out of wingers with duck quacks and a popper. The blinds were well away from the marks so I ran them hot.
The water is cold here so I ran the water blind first so she would dry off and get warm during the marks. It is a bit more of a slot than is shown here. I didn't like her initial line so I called her back and got a better one. There were several whistles but I kept her in the slot and she took everyone but one, where she scapuled. 
Then we ran the triple. I had a problem a few months ago with getting her to swing and look out for that 3rd bird. That left, then I was getting a huge creep out on the third bird. Today she stayed nicely nailed down, ok maybe just slight forward movement with the turn to the last bird. She did a nice job on the 1st two marks. I sent her for the third in line mark. As she hit the old fall she slowed down and her head went down. I gave her a big verbal "back" to see if I could just push her through it but I was way too late on it and it didn't work. I ended up in an ugly handled. A couple of whistles to get her out of the old fall, then it was just messy out by the mark. In a test I will need to be on the whistle a lot faster. I might have to blow my handle but if we can get out of it fast and clean we may live to play in another series. The land blind was no problem. I think I will be running in line marks again soon. Today's set up was fairly big with tough bird placement in hopes we will at least look like we belong in Master when we give it a go.


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## Claudia M

The winter was horrible. We missed so much training it is not even funny. Weather gets better Darcy goes in heat, so again no training since I cannot leave Darcy alone at home due to her separation anxiety. Then Rose has the OSS surgery, rash on her belly then an infection. We got two training days in so far. The day before the surgery and two weeks after the surgery (which was a disaster, Rose was completely lethargic and barely did a 40 yard retrieve while she was doing 150 yards the day before her surgery). 
I tried to use the time constructively and had the 4Runner cage built for training days (2 separate compartments). It is long and tall enough that they can sit and watch out the back or side window with room enough to jump and also for the bags of equipment between the front seats and the cage. Had to sacrifice the back seats. 
Since both girls are in advanced obedience and they both do field, now we can go anywhere with both of them. 

Now we are waiting on the anti-inflammatory and antibiotics to start working so we can get back to work. 

Rose's OFA results came in the other day with Excellent on hips and Normal on Elbows. 

I attached the pictures of the cage before I had the cushions done!


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## hotel4dogs

Went to Dan's today, and I'm very pleased to say that having started tracking lessons has had no negative effects on field work. I didn't think it would. When we turned him loose to go hunting (pheasants), he found/flushed/sat etc. just perfect.
Now if we could only get in to some of the spaniel tests. They seem to fill, quickly, with spaniels.


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## Alaska7133

Winter is winding down. Potter Marsh has small areas of open water. It's shallow and frozen to the bottom, but I didn't want to wear waders, so we went to a park we like instead last night. The snow at the park was only about 4" deep, so we're thinning out. Temp was 37F sunny and warm, great day for training. Last night at training we has a springer again and a cocker. The cocker person told us that their breed split back in the 1950's. This cocker was pretty amazing, she was just a little thing but had no problem hauling back ducks to her owner. We all practiced singles, doubles, and walk out blinds. A friend shot some pigeons for me yesterday, so the dogs had fresh pigeon, they really liked those pigeons! Our group is all female, so it was funny when a guy with a toller walked up and asked if he could join us next time. Hmmmm... Not sure if we want to mix it up. I'll have to take a vote!


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## boomers_dawn

Dee Dee went to training group today. 

She did 6 long singles. Last year her problem was getting all the way out there. Today she did 50-100 yard marks and got all the way out there! Once she got there, she didn't always know what to do .. stop, look around, look at thrower, but she did some by herself, did some with help, came back and delivered!
She's a good steady little marker, great focus, fast, and fun to work with.

A new person was watching, she said she wanted to watch one of the more advanced students, dog school teecher paid the highest compliment I ever heard, he said "Gladys moves even faster than that". 

Someone asked why didn't we bring Gladys; she gets so over excited I thought it would be better for her to stay home and stay calm.

Love my bitches. So this week after work I'll take Dee out to do her backs in the yard and I think sign her up for the next round of class; she can continue to work on drills and I think she'll be ready for sight blinds and pattern blinds soon ... exciting!


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## Claudia M

DH and I volunteered to work a hunt test today. We worked a JH station blind. There were two stations. We lucked out and got the dead bird blind. DH can shoot but prefers not to shoot farm raised animals. Even deer hunting he does not shoot any deer that stays on our property at the cabin. I was pretty happy as two ducks took off. I think the shooter thought I was crazy. Little did I know that the farm raised ducks will not survive in the wild. 
As we moved from land retrieves to water retrieves we set up our station. I loaded probably 4 ducks. I open the sack a bit wider to look at the ducks and this duck jumps on me and straight into the water. Talk about distraction as this golden was waiting for his second mark from the opposite station! After all the dogs ran the JH they send a dog in the water for the poor injured duck. 
WOW, talk about emotions! One of the judges said for me to take the duck home and keep her, but she was so injured I was afraid she may not last the hour and a half trip back home. As I was holding her, petting her she was fading in my hands. The same guy whose dog retrieved the bird put it out f its misery. Plus his dog brought it back so that was his dog's duck.


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## Vhuynh2

Molly might be out of commission for awhile.  I thought I saw her limp Wednesday morning but as soon as I noticed, she stopped so I figured I had imagined it. We went to obedience and she did broad and high jumps just fine, field trained Thursday, and hiked Friday. She was fine, and then she limped all day Saturday. I think it is a toe on her back left leg. She pulls her leg back when I put pressure on that one toe. I haven't seen her limp today. The Junior tests I wanted to enter are the first two weekends of next month.. closing date is soon. I'm going to keep it light for a few days and take her in if it doesn't improve.

On Thursday she was almost attacked by geese. The mark was on the back of an island and she missed it. Swam past it and onto another island right behind it where there was a goose nest. Mama goose called out to papa goose who swooped in and they started flapping their wings and poking their heads at Molly, who then swam away and onto shore on the opposite side of the pond. I was freaking out, probably more so than Molly was. (I'm a city girl, this isn't stuff I see, ever!) I wasn't sure what to do about the bumper, since we had never handled in the water, but I called her back to me and I tried it and she did it! She wanted to swim around the island again but I stopped her and cast her back. I hope that served as a confidence booster for Molly.


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## hollyk

Hey, Viv is this your Mama goose?
I was out on Friday and ran a channel blind between two small islands. Winter was coming back with the bumper when up popped Mama goose. Luckily we didn't have any dive bombing, Mama just gave us the evil eye and stayed put.

Hope Molly's toe is better soon.


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## Vhuynh2

Yes, it was that mama goose!! Papa goose stayed and kept an eye on us the rest of the time we were there. I'm not messing with them again!


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## K9-Design

We ran a finished test today hoping to get Slater's last pass but did not qualify. I wish I had taken a picture of the water. Nobody would believe the amount of cover and crap in this water. In typical HRC fashion they dumped all the birds in one thirty yard area and said hunt em up oh yeah we're judging you on marking. Slater got his go bird, turned for bird #2 on the left, charged straight out there through the dense cover and proceeded to hunt for the bird for a solid five minutes. It landed somewhere in the pond but among all the heavy weeds, grass and lily pads. You couldn't see the duck or your dog. He stayed right in the area and hunted vigorously. I finally turned to the judges and said, I would handle but I don't know where the bird is and the dog hasn't left the area of the fall. They said go ahead and try. So I handled all over the place and he never came up with the bird. The judges finally said let's bring him in and go get the third bird. Which of course by that time he had forgotten so I handled on that (2 clean casts). They asked me to go ahead and run the blind, which was straight ahead across the pond, the whole way swimming water choked with weeds higher than the dog's head. Slater freakin LINED it. Not meandered out there and stumbled on it or got pushed in the right direction by cover : he busted a straight line out there and stepped on it. Whooo! So the judges said sit tight we are going to go look for the bird on that missed mark. Two judges and two bird boys searched for 10 minutes and couldn't find the bird. So they said we'll judge it as a mark the dog went directly to the AOF and hunted. 
OK onto land. Setup was in a pine forest, lots of trees lots of high cover patches and the ground was soaked with standing water puddles. Wide open triple with diversion bird thrown inline with bird #1, as you come back from the go bird. I quickly handled on the diversion as to not burn memory and Slater went right to every mark -- good job! Blind was 120 yards into the woods, Slater kept fading left, he finally took one good cast and proceeded to blow right past the blind and get back in a bunch of cover. I handled him all over trying to get him on the bird but he must have been a lot farther away that what I was perceiving and spent too much time crashing through cover and not enough time taking good casts 
Evidently lining the first blind was not enough to overcome it and they dropped us. They only passed 2 out of 14 dogs.
Our next HRC test anywhere remotely close is not until December


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## gdgli

Vhuynh2 said:


> Molly might be out of commission for awhile.  I thought I saw her limp Wednesday morning but as soon as I noticed, she stopped so I figured I had imagined it. We went to obedience and she did broad and high jumps just fine, field trained Thursday, and hiked Friday. She was fine, and then she limped all day Saturday. I think it is a toe on her back left leg. She pulls her leg back when I put pressure on that one toe. I haven't seen her limp today. The Junior tests I wanted to enter are the first two weekends of next month.. closing date is soon. I'm going to keep it light for a few days and take her in if it doesn't improve.
> 
> On Thursday she was almost attacked by geese. The mark was on the back of an island and she missed it. Swam past it and onto another island right behind it where there was a goose nest. Mama goose called out to papa goose who swooped in and they started flapping their wings and poking their heads at Molly, who then swam away and onto shore on the opposite side of the pond. I was freaking out, probably more so than Molly was. (I'm a city girl, this isn't stuff I see, ever!) I wasn't sure what to do about the bumper, since we had never handled in the water, but I called her back to me and I tried it and she did it! She wanted to swim around the island again but I stopped her and cast her back. I hope that served as a confidence booster for Molly.


Could be dangerous. I have seen a goose do a broken wing stunt in the water to lure swans away from the young. If this happens to your dog and the dog swims after the goose your dog will get awfully tired. The goose flies low then plops into the water luring the danger. The goose waits for the danger to catch up and does the whole thing all over again. If your dog likes to chase you could have a problem. Ever see a dog run right through a collar correction to chase something? I have.

I won't train in that kind of situation. And forget about swans. They will drown your dog.


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## Alaska7133

We had fun training on Saturday. Still no open water and there won't be for awhile, but the ducks have started arriving and are crapping all over where the dogs will be swimming in the near future. So I think the duck poop was a bigger distraction than a diversion bird. Lucy couldn't get enough of it. She stopped to eat and dropped her bumper, so she forgot about the bumper and got halfway back to me before I was able to handle her back to the bumper. We ran the dogs on a side hill so they would have to run at an angle. Some dogs really wanted to run down the hill and make a right turn towards the bumpers. Good experience.

4 other goldens for a change instead of all labs. There is a GCh girl that is just lovely to watch run across the field. She will easily get her senior hunt title this summer. Pretty dogs can do well too!

I'm ready for Lucy to go into heat. I'm hoping to get that behind us before the season begins the end of next month.


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## Vhuynh2

gdgli said:


> Could be dangerous. I have seen a goose do a broken wing stunt in the water to lure swans away from the young. If this happens to your dog and the dog swims after the goose your dog will get awfully tired. The goose flies low then plops into the water luring the danger. The goose waits for the danger to catch up and does the whole thing all over again. If your dog likes to chase you could have a problem. Ever see a dog run right through a collar correction to chase something? I have.
> 
> I won't train in that kind of situation. And forget about swans. They will drown your dog.



Holy .. I did not know they could lure dogs and start a chase. I will stay away.. Thanks


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## Alaska7133

They can bite and hurt a dog. Watch for geese, they are tough!


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## hotel4dogs

:dohh yes, I've seen a dog burn through a collar when on the chase:doh:


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## gdgli

hotel4dogs said:


> :dohh yes, I've seen a dog burn through a collar when on the chase:doh:


Of course you and I won't admit to first hand experience on this!


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## Claudia M

gdgli said:


> ... If your dog likes to chase you could have a problem. Ever see a dog run right through a collar correction to chase something? I have.
> 
> I won't train in that kind of situation. And forget about swans. They will drown your dog.


Is that e-collar conditioning gone bad, not done right or just extra pray drive on the part of the dog?


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## hotel4dogs

Mostly just massive prey drive, they are willing to take the correction, no matter what it is, to continue the chase. Shows a lot of instinct (help me with the term again GRGLI!) whereby the training is over ruled by the instinct.


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## Alaska7133

Had it happen 2 weeks ago. The birds have finally begun to arrive. At the marsh there were a handful of seagulls checking out their nesting grounds. Lucy took off after them and the collar, whistle, etc. had no effect. Luckily I was by myself so nobody else saw my dog. But there was nothing I could do. So I quit pushing the button and walked out hoping that she wouldn't go too far. It took awhile for her to come back. But after many months of not seeing birds, she went a little crazy. I'm not sure if there was anything I could have done. The instinct kicked in and she was gone.


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## Claudia M

What would you do? It is spring again and every spring we have 2 to 3 ducks that come on our property. I have been trying to watch out for them before I let the dogs out. They do tend to stay nearby. So far I had to stop Rose from chasing deer, squirrels. What if she chases the ducks? Those are wild ducks, not farm raised ducks. They have ducklings.


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## Claudia M

Too late to ask that question. As I took them for potty break before leaving for work, there come two ducks. Wow! I got pulled all the way to the end of the yard. I did not dare say no, leave it or anything. I let her pull me but I held strong as I was afraid I would fall on my belly. She smelled for them all the way back to the house. As we went back inside she went straight for the dead duck I had left to dry out.


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## hotel4dogs

I have no problem "no bird"-ing Tito off a bird that's not killed. He needs to know, for his own safety, that if a shot is missed, he is NOT NOT NOT to take off after the bird. 
If he sees a live bird, and I don't want him to flush it, I tell him "no bird. no bird". 
It has never effected his desire to flush/retrieve birds.
I strongly believe that they need to know that the time to go after a bird is when told to do so, and not otherwise. But then maybe I believe that because I have a dog who will blow thru the e-collar when in prey mode.....his bird desire is so high that I can't imagine anything would ruin it.


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## Claudia M

I do not think we are there yet! There have been only a couple times that she went for the wrong bumper in a double or triple where I had to use it. I have to watch/learn more on how to set her up in order to give a no-bird correction. I also want to see more bird desire in her before I will try to correct her off a bird. 
As far as birds, she is been watching (hunt mode) mostly the bue jays. And now the ducks.


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## hotel4dogs

Bear in mind, too, that if you run hunt tests, you will have to honor a working dog. If you hunt with your dog, there may well be another dog there.
"No bird" is critical. When honoring, it tells the dog that the birds that are going down are not his to retrieve. Period.
When hunting, it tells the dog that the bird that was shot is not his to retrieve.


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## Claudia M

So do you tell the honoring dog "No bird" while honoring? I would think that would confuse the other dog at the line. 

I have worked both Rose and Darcy with the bumpers but never said anything other than give the Whoa hand command and send Darcy to the bumper by her name. 
Darcy is still learning hand commands.


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## FTGoldens

I suppose that the command should just be "sit," and followed by "heel" when you have been released as the honoring dog. However, most trainers use a specific command to indicate honoring.
I had a chronic honor-breaker a few years ago; I ended up using a special word to indicate that if he moved a muscle, I'd be very upset with him. It worked. Since that time I have used that word to indicate to my dogs that we are in an honoring situation (even though they are not the breakers that he was).
I reserve the use of "no bird" for instances when I am pulling them off of a poison bird when running a blind.
FTGoldens


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## Alaska7133

FT,
Could you explain how you train for a poison bird in a blind? Is it something that takes a lot to get the dog to understand they need to leave that bird alone and go to a different bird? I envision that being a very hard thing to do when you are super far away in a field trial situation like you normally run.


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## hotel4dogs

Yes, you can quietly speak to your dog. You are far enough away that a quiet "no bird, not your bird, no bird...." is not going to confuse the working dog. You can not, however, shout or threaten. 



Claudia M said:


> So do you tell the honoring dog "No bird" while honoring? I would think that would confuse the other dog at the line.
> 
> I have worked both Rose and Darcy with the bumpers but never said anything other than give the Whoa hand command and send Darcy to the bumper by her name.
> Darcy is still learning hand commands.


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## hotel4dogs

I also use "no bird" now in tracking so he knows he's NOT looking for pheasants 
And today I even had to use "no critter" :doh::doh:


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## hollyk

Barb,
How are you liking tracking? I think I would like to try it at some point.


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## Loisiana

Baby dog started force fetch this week. I think by tomorrow he will be done with what I consider FF for obedience, although I add a lot more to it for FF for field work. It's going very well, he's a quick study.


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## Alaska7133

Hey Barb I tried working with my dogs on Sunday on trailing. I took a duck and drug it in a straight line around the yard then around the side of the garage. The area was just gravel and dirt, no grass. I did twice in 2 totally different areas. Each length was about 100' total. Then I left the duck at the end of the line. I turned each dog loose and both times the dogs were very easily put their nose to the ground and found the ducks very quickly. Is that how you train for trailing?


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## hotel4dogs

LOVING it, would strongly encourage you to give it a try! I'm getting ready to go post in the Games section of the forum about today's lesson  .



hollyk said:


> Barb,
> How are you liking tracking? I think I would like to try it at some point.


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## hotel4dogs

When we did it we used fresh killed birds dragged through heavy cover the first few times, and then live birds let loose in heavy cover. Easy for dogs, hard for us to fathom how they manage to do it! 




Alaska7133 said:


> Hey Barb I tried working with my dogs on Sunday on trailing. I took a duck and drug it in a straight line around the yard then around the side of the garage. The area was just gravel and dirt, no grass. I did twice in 2 totally different areas. Each length was about 100' total. Then I left the duck at the end of the line. I turned each dog loose and both times the dogs were very easily put their nose to the ground and found the ducks very quickly. Is that how you train for trailing?


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## K9-Design

Alaska7133 said:


> FT,
> Could you explain how you train for a poison bird in a blind? Is it something that takes a lot to get the dog to understand they need to leave that bird alone and go to a different bird? I envision that being a very hard thing to do when you are super far away in a field trial situation like you normally run.



Dogs are introduced to the poison bird concept very early on either by throwing discard bumpers and sending them to the back pile or more formally during blind drills (which comes after pattern blinds and before pattern blinds with diversions). 
For beginner poison birds I have had a gunner and a simple cold blind out in the field. Gunner throws single, dog picks it up. Run blind. Gunner throws single, NO dog off of it and run the blind. If they won't look off keep walking toward the blind until you get them to look off, and send. Then dog can retrieve the mark. Honestly they typically get the concept quickly. You can make it exponentially more difficult by the way you set up the relationship with the mark and the blind(s) 
I remember watching a qual several years ago where all they did was set a gunner way off away from the blind and have him do a dry shot as the dog got to the line to run the blind. It BLEW THEIR MINDS.


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## FTGoldens

Alaska7133 said:


> FT,
> Could you explain how you train for a poison bird in a blind? Is it something that takes a lot to get the dog to understand they need to leave that bird alone and go to a different bird? I envision that being a very hard thing to do when you are super far away in a field trial situation like you normally run.


That's a pretty tall order for a board posting, so this will be a very basic description of how I start to teach the concept ... many books and DVDs provide good explanations of how to train for PBs.

The first step for training on PBs actually begins when you start training for blinds ... you tell Fido, "Dead Bird" (of course, you can use whatever word you want to use to indicate that they are about to run a blind, but that's what I say to the dog); so Fido has heard that phrase hundreds of times before you ever start training on PBs and it should tell him that he's about to run a blind and not a mark. 

When Fido is running blinds with a LOT of confidence, I'll start training him for PBs. My first step is to set out at about 60 - 90 yards a few bumpers near a white stake or bucket, something that Fido knows will have a pile of bumpers nearby; and roughly 15 - 20 yards off to the side of the line-to-the-blind at about 30 - 40 yards from the LINE (this word in caps indicates that I'm referring to the line from which we run) I'll have a gunner stand. I'll just run this blind a couple of times, so that Fido knows where the blind is and kind of get him in a drill-state-of-mind. After Fido has lined the blind a couple/few times, then on my signal I'll have the gunner toss a bumper in the direction away from the line-to-the-blind, then I'll say "No Bird" and re-heel Fido so that he's lined up for the blind, then I'll say "Dead Bird" ... I may need to repeat that phrase to get the idea of a blind in his mind. Hopefully, Fido will get the message and line the blind. (At this very early, teaching stage, I don't let Fido get the mark ... that just has the potential to create confusion, however in the not too distant future he will get that mark after he gets the blind.) If he doesn't line the blind, just handle him to it, and repeat it all over again, including having the mark thrown. Once he starts doing it almost perfectly, you can increase the distance to the blind and/or decrease the distance that the gunner is from the line-to-the-blind. As Fido progresses, the marks can be thrown in the direction of the line-to-the-blind or the mark's arc can go over the line-to-the-blind ... and then you can make Fido run TWO blinds before he gets the mark. And, as has been said before, difficulty increases with distance, control decreases with distance ... both of which are generally well proven by PBs.

EVENTUALLY, you will see Fido pull himself off the mark when you say "Dead Bird," and that's a big day ... at that time, you will know that he understands PBs! Once proficient with this concept, I like to do one or two PB set ups a week, just to keep them sharp. And eventually Fido will have the tools necessary to run a 400 yard blind under the arc of a PB and win a blue ribbon for doing so! 

That's my best shot at giving a concise explanation of training on a concept that even many big time Open dogs can have trouble with. But, it's fun to train and it's tremendously rewarding because when the light comes on, you'll know it.

FTGoldens


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## Alaska7133

FT,
Thanks so much for your helpful descriptions. You should write a book with all your experience and knowledge. You have had some amazing dogs. I'd love the opportunity to watch you run dogs again. I'm thinking about volunteering to marshall our local field trials.

So off to training again last night. Ground is still frozen but the air is warm so the snow on top is melting. So there is standing water on the fields everywhere mixed with snow and ice. Very few semi dry spots. I marked out a chair 80 yards from the line before everyone arrived. As people got there, we talked about the distance being only 80 yards and if they want to run a senior test, they need to run double that. It got some people really thinking. All the dogs ran double marks at 80 yards. Some had real troubles. Some did excellent. It was good for everyone to think about the distances required for senior. I know it might sound simple to some of you, but some of the people in my group have never run a hunt test, so they don't know what to expect. Spaniels came out again. A young Brittany was there. I didn't know that Brittanys are pointers, not flushers. So it's been interesting training with the spaniels and retrievers together. Our all female group is doing well. We did have a guy with a toller walk up the other day and ask to join, but we decided to keep it all female. I think it's a bit less intimidating for some of the women just starting out.

Any words of advice for someone that is trying really hard to get women involved and going along? I'm not a trainer and I can only do so much to help them.


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## hotel4dogs

our version of a *poison bird* this week at training....we were working with some live ducks, doing some water work. 
Tito retrieved the first duck, about an 80 yard in-out-in-out retrieve. Came back with the quacker, whose wings were clipped and feet loosely shackled. I took the bird from him, and sent him on the next mark, a 100 yard all water retrieve (some of it splashing water, some running water). When he got out there, I set the duck that I had been holding from his first retrieve on the ground. 
The little bugger took off and of course immediately plopped into the water, where he proceeded to swim around, try to flap, and generally create quite a distraction. At this point Tito was heading back with the other (live) duck.
So he had to swim PAST the agitated duck, come in and deliver the duck he had retrieved, and then wait to be sent back out for the other bird. He did stop to check it out, but never released the bird he was holding (no....leave it....here....heel). Good dog.

We had a grand time with ducks this week. He got to trail quite a few of them through the heavy cover, which is one of his favorite things to do. We pull some flight feathers, but don't shackle the feet. Then he gets to go find them, catch them, and bring them to me. We had to laugh, he figured out real fast that it was the same 2 birds, we were just re-releasing them. So he walked along right next to Dan, waiting for him to release the bird. Smart dog! We had to trick him by hiding a bird behind my back, letting him walk along with Dan, me dropping way back and releasing the bird, then letting him find it. 

A good session!


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## gdgli

Our hunting over the Winter transformed Buffy into a freelancer. Now she knows better than me on how to run a blind.So..........Today we did wagon wheel and casting drills, simple, just to get her back to following my hand signals. No yelling, success at drills, lots of praise and I got a big smile from her at the end. 

We also have training sessions with flyers on Saturday and Sunday morning. I will still be able to get to my sister for Easter Sunday. 

Wild game dinner party for our training group Saturday night. I am making Bayman's Duck Stew for the party. Also on the menu---smoked bluefish, venison, smoked pheasant salad and crabcakes.


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## K9-Design

hotel4dogs said:


> So he had to swim PAST the agitated duck, come in and deliver the duck he had retrieved, and then wait to be sent back out for the other bird. He did stop to check it out, but never released the bird he was holding (no....leave it....here....heel). Good dog.


Welcome to master : you just did a diversion with a live flyer 
Not quite a poison bird unless you made him run a blind before he got to pick it up!!!


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## boomers_dawn

It takes a village to train Dee Dee and we had a lot of help today.

Large group training, I entered her in the big group this year since she did the baby group last year. The big group was too hard for her, but the baby group was way too easy for her. 

She's used to doing a lot of marks with duck calls, white bumpers, and silent momentum re-throws. Now she manages to get out there but doesn't always remember what to do when she gets there. She just needs more practice.

This was the huge field trial set up ABCD drill running past a white coat; it was her first time using birds, and she had to learn fast to pay attention to shoot/throw. I wanted to have only the station she should focus on wear white, but the brains of the group said she has to get used to all these distractions sometime ... so I tried it.

I should have moved up way way further than I did. I think she needed help on all the marks, but at least she got out there and picked up birds. That was my goal today, birds.

The second series I knew enough to move way up. I showed her her first pheasant in the holding blind and she had zero interest in it. I've been no-ing her off our chickens for so long, I'm pretty sure she just had no clue what I wanted her to do.

Anyhoo, we moved way up, I sent her to the duck station first - she managed that.
Next we tried the dead pheasant station - I was afraid she wouldn't pick it up, but she managed that too.

We did the flyer last b/c I figured if she couldn't handle the first 2, forget it.
The wind pushed the bird back and it fell way too close to the station, but I saw it flapping there, and really wanted to get her to pick up a flapper so I sent her.

She ended up at the flyer station, but they gave her an arm swing, she figured it out, and hauled it all the way back. I was so proud of her. Granted she held it by the wing the whole way, but it was still very brave on her part, I thought. She's a small delicate dog. They only had roosters.

It was so nice to see everyone again and something was awakened in Dee Dee b/c when we got home, she was like C-H-I-C-K-E-N-S !!!! :new (18):and flipped out when I put her pheasant from today in the fridge.

I can't imagine being able to get JH legs without really training or trying. Dog skool teecher said Dee Dee should be ready to run in June, but she needs a LOT more training, she's at the point where I don't trust her to get out there and stay out and not come back until she finds it.


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## hotel4dogs

I had the opposite fear with Tito when we were getting ready for JH....that he'd get out there, not be able to find the bird, and flat out refuse to come back without it. I had visions of myself tromping thru the fields and especially water, going out to get my errant beast.




boomers_dawn said:


> but she needs a LOT more training, she's at the point where I don't trust her to get out there and stay out and not come back until she finds it.


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## Loisiana

When Flip was younger he was a lot like Dee Dee, he would kind of stall out, give up, and come back to me. That was when he was around a year old. We stopped most training for the next two years while we focused on obedience. When we went back to some field work, he was totally different. Now I can't imagine him ever not completing a hunt. At least in His case, I don't think training had anything to do with it, he just needed some maturity.


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## gdgli

Boomer's Dawn

I would say that today was a success for you and your dog.


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## boomers_dawn

gdgli said:


> Boomer's Dawn
> 
> I would say that today was a success for you and your dog.


It was, and it was GREAT seeing you too :wavey:


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## gdgli

Club training at Southern Berks on Saturday.
Club training at LIGRC Sunday. Followed by Easter Dinner.

Today, totally exhausted.


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## Claudia M

Dog show on Saturday with Darcy 3 hours there 4 hours back for 15 minutes of "fame"
Dog training at local field Sunday; followed by yucky ordered Virginia Country Ham from Edwards; next time I know to just stick with New Braunfels Steakhouse. 

Why is today Monday? And a work day on top of that?


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## boomers_dawn

Dee Dee went to feeld class this week and seemed to forget what "back" means, so we did it outside for the next couple days, got the mechanics of "dead" "good/no/good" "back" down again, with enthusiasm! I think from confidence.

Yesterday I took the day off from work and met up with someone near me to train using birds. I was concerned with the usual momentum and perserverance issues, but it worked out well!

She got all the way out to her approx 90 yards hand throws with minimal cover without needing help! 

Her first winger mark she took a pretty good line then hooked to the winger, checked briefly, looked at me for a second, then I saw the lightbulb come on! She remembered something, looked for her bird, and found it!!! YAY!!!! The thrill of victory!

The second winger mark she just nailed. It was one of those rewarding moments when you can see the results of your training efforts finally paying off.

I signed her up for another flyer day in a couple weeks and I think we'll get to our Tuesday group this week. I doubt we'll get to train this weekend, hope everyone has a good one.


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## MillionsofPeaches

this week has almost all been drill and water. Yesterday we worked on platform at the bank and pile work. I'm so happy to report that Kat is finally getting her butt in gear. Ever since I put the collar on her she has caught a second gear. It was so funny when she was at home and I put it on her for training the first time. She had this look like oh man, you are really serious about me sitting on those whistles. LOL. Now that this isn't an issue any longer it is SO much easier to work on handling with her, ha ha ha. I don't have to run back and forth to make her sit. And she is very excited about training again which also makes it fun. Its odd. I think me giving her verbal pressure was much harder on her than collar pressure and that was wearing us both down, too. Now, she is whining to go and she is running to and back! Speed was something that really drove me nuts with her as you all know. So hopefully this turn of events will keep rolling along. It sure is nice. 

I have to work on my handling skills as well. My trainer keeps telling me I push my hand forward on a back instead of straight up. I don't even realize I do it and often I'm so concerned about watching Kat it is hard to remember every little detail but this is critical because the dog can't see my hand as well. 
Did anyone else have an awkward time when they first started handling. I told him I suck at coordination but if I can get the gun I can get this, it is just a matter of it becoming more muscle memory than anything else. It seems like this stuff comes so naturally for others but maybe they can hide their flaws better than I. ha ha.


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## boomers_dawn

MillionsofPeaches said:


> Did anyone else have an awkward time when they first started handling.


Yes :wavey: probably still do / more to come ...


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## MillionsofPeaches

thanks Dawn. That makes me feel so much better!! Its hard for me to gauge because clients usually leave their dogs with the trainer and he runs them. I don't get to see many newbies handling, he runs the dogs. With me, he is standing behind me and I swear there is something to correct EVERY.SINGLE.TIME. If I'm putting it straight up, then I'm hesitating on the whistle. If I'm not hesitating then I'm not moving back over when I'm casting overs or outs. And so on and so on. Sometimes I just feel like I suck ha ha ha because I have so much to learn/remember, but I'll get it eventually. (I hope)


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## hollyk

MillionsofPeaches said:


> thanks Dawn. That makes me feel so much better!! Its hard for me to gauge because clients usually leave their dogs with the trainer and he runs them. I don't get to see many newbies handling, he runs the dogs. With me, he is standing behind me and I swear there is something to correct EVERY.SINGLE.TIME. If I'm putting it straight up, then I'm hesitating on the whistle. If I'm not hesitating then I'm not moving back over when I'm casting overs or outs. And so on and so on. Sometimes I just feel like I suck ha ha ha because I have so much to learn/remember, but I'll get it eventually. (I hope)


Hang in there it will all come together. I remember practicing in the mirror.

Last fall I had a left shoulder injury and couldn't lift my hand over my head. My big concern was how was I going to train? Luckily, Winter seemed to adjust with only slightly wonky lines and I was able to rehab fairly fast. Talk about motivated to do therapy. 

I still get caught off guard and miss my opportunity to correct. In fact I missed a big one yesterday. :doh:


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## Loisiana

boomers_dawn said:


> I signed her up for another flyer day in a couple weeks.


I need to move to Connecticut.


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## MillionsofPeaches

hollyk said:


> Hang in there it will all come together. I remember practicing in the mirror.


That is SO funny you said that. Yesterday, I did good and remembered everything but the more intense it gets the more I forget to get that hand way high, I'm not thinking about that part, I'm thinking about when to stop her and all that. So my trainer was all telling me, there you go again pushing her instead of telling her. I turned around and said, I swear to God, I was practicing in the mirror last night! I really feel for him, he is so patient, I swear I am nuts!


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## boomers_dawn

MillionsofPeaches said:


> thanks Dawn. That makes me feel so much better!! Its hard for me to gauge because clients usually leave their dogs with the trainer and he runs them. I don't get to see many newbies handling, he runs the dogs. With me, he is standing behind me and I swear there is something to correct EVERY.SINGLE.TIME. If I'm putting it straight up, then I'm hesitating on the whistle. If I'm not hesitating then I'm not moving back over when I'm casting overs or outs. And so on and so on. Sometimes I just feel like I suck ha ha ha because I have so much to learn/remember, but I'll get it eventually. (I hope)


Yes! But the good part is, even though we feel inept, we're learning by doing and I know I learn from my mistakes. Our dog skool teecher also stands behind us and goes (for examples) "tweet" and if we take too long to cast like he can see we don't know what to do, he'll give us a hint (ex. Left back) .. and if I sit there wanting to do angle back because that's the obvious angle and go "I want to give her an angle back" and he goes "Left back" and I give her an angle back then end up having to sit her and go "DOH!!" then he says in the most benign tone "see what happens when you don't listen?" and explains why the dog was going to go over and needed the left back instead of the angle back.


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## boomers_dawn

Loisiana said:


> I need to move to Connecticut.


YES! How much fun would that be?
Until it starts snowing, I mean.


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## Loisiana

I need to move to Connecticut for the summer


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## hollyk

Next week-end we are entered in MH. After the last few training sessions I think it is going to be a very short day. Yesterday we went to a club training day and it was ugly. The grass will be longish at the test site, mid calf, it was even longer at yesterday's training site. They cut square shaped area out of a bigger field down to just over mid calf, outside the square was over mid thigh. The set up was a triple right to left, fairly short because of the long grass, 75, 110, 60. The middle bird was an in throw and the go bird was thrown into the taller grass, slightly stomped down and scented up a bit. The blind was very close to the middle mark. Winter watched all three marks go down and *blew* over the top of the go bird. Apparently, hopping though long grass is a riot. I decided to just let her hunt and she did check down but in the end I had to handle. The 2nd mark once again right over the top but this time she was head to the next county, handled back to it. 3rd mark she did a nice job on. Then the blind, well I did teach a few people a new word, AUTOCAST. They said it sounds nicer then "giving you the paw". I guess running like a loon though grass is like crack to Winter. I have never had her try to slip so many whistles, so that blind quickly became about the sit. 
I will get a couple more training days in before next Saturday but I think it is going to be a short day.


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## K9-Design

Bad practice, good trial
This is OFTEN the case
I'd do nothing but singles all week! And get her in a little trouble on blinds! And go have fun!!!  You will learn WAY more doing it than watching from the gallery!


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## hollyk

K9-Design said:


> Bad practice, good trial
> This is OFTEN the case
> I'd do nothing but singles all week! And get her in a little trouble on blinds! And go have fun!!!  You will learn WAY more doing it than watching from the gallery!


Heading back out in a bit and I was thinking singles off of multiple gunners with a couple of blinds weaved though them. Man, she never has slipped as many whistles as yesterday. I guess I'm glad to see it now and not next week. It will least it give me a chance to nail her down. Thinking about yesterday's marks, the first two had no landmarks behind them, it was just a sea of green grass. The third one that she did do a nice job on had a big mound of blackberry bush behind it to frame it. Most of the dogs who ran yesterday train on this ground. They had some pretty big hunts but stayed in the area. I have to wonder since they train there all the time if the dogs have learn when they hit the really tall grass they have gone too far. I will be looking to set up in tall grass today. 
My training partner is running Senior so she will pick them off as singles or do double doubles.


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## Alaska7133

Working hard on whistle sits. I will now train my pups to whistle sit when they are very young, field dogs or not. It's just a great thing to learn. Plus whistle recall all dogs should know, retrievers or not.

Been training with retrievers and spaniels. It's an interesting mix. The spaniels are sure nice to watch work and they are very nice retrievers on marks. Spaniels don't do forced fetch. They also don't have to retrieve to hand. Had some show dogs come on Saturday. It's always a riot watching their fluffy butts run after bumpers. Some of them are very much into birds. He some more Stanley Steamer progeny show up. I didn't know he produced so many pups. 

Been trying to figure out how to show people that don't understand blinds a little bit about how they work and get their dogs interested. So I've been using a Connie Cleveland idea. You walk your dog out in the field 50 yards and drop a bumper and say dead bird. Then you walk back to the line. Have the dog do a couple of singles or a double. Then send the dog for the walk out blind. Every dog remembers where that bumper is! People are so shocked at what their dogs are capable of. I know it's not a real blind, but it does help people think a little bit about the possibilities. Anyone try this technique with new people?

Took a hunt test judge seminar yesterday. Jerry Mann is the AKC instructor. Turns out we've had some issues with judging up here. I just thought it was me. We have made our hunt tests about as tough as a field trial and our field trials are way over the top. We have pass rates at some of our hunt tests as low as 25% at all levels depending on the judges. Anyway the class was well attended by new people wanting to judge hunt tests so that they could change how tests are done. So hopefully we can make some changes up here and make our tests more fair.

Hoping for open water soon. We're still below freezing at night, but the ice is getting thinner! The mosquitos are out so fully open water is soon to follow.


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## Claudia M

I did not think I would say this so soon but .... I want the snow back!........ at least we could still work outside some. But the rain....yikes.


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## MillionsofPeaches

Stacey, my trainer trains boykin spaniels and I will be getting one around the end of the year if the breeding is good. Right now gosh, there could be ten in his kennel...I love working with them, they are like a mix between goldens and labs to me. They are tougher than the goldens but softer than the labs (generally). They are amazing dogs to me. Anyway, what kind of spaniels were at your training?


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## Alaska7133

The spaniels have fallen into 2 groups, flushers and pointers. The pointer, a Brittany spaniel, was sent over to our group by a friend. The Brittany owner had gotten a puppy and had no idea what to do with her. Brittanies have a really weird process for training and the other spaniel people said not to join us that it would be too confusing for the pointing dog. So the woman was sent over to the Arctic Bird Dog Association classes. We have some springers, which have all been trained for both retriever tests and spaniel tests and have integrated very well. Then there is a field cocker that is spectacular and runs both also. I've heard that Boykins have just been added for retriever hunt tests too now. So if you get one, you'll be able to run the spaniel the same as your other dogs. I do understand that spaniels generally don't do forced fetch training to compete in spaniel hunt tests. The spaniel owners I've met have a very bad impression of retriever forced fetch training, they call it Hell Week and think we are very mean to do it to our dogs. Kind of interesting eh? I think Barb probably knows more about competing with spaniels since she's been doing the spaniel hunt tests. I'd love to hear her opinion...


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## K9-Design

Got out and trained yesterday. I'll have to take a picture of the pond, "training pond" and it's full of water enough to swim, looks amazing (it's usually dried up).
Anyways we did two hand-thrown mom & pops in the water, then a set up of two marks and two blinds. Picture a shorline with three very large fingers sticking out from the right side all in a row. Line is on finger 1, gunner is on finger 3. First single is thrown right to left angle in into the water between fingers 2 and 3 (behind the back side of finger 2), the second single is thrown angle back on the land of finger 3 left to right. Then run a short blind through the pocket to the right (crotch of fingers 1 and 2), then long blind to the left up and over the point of finger 2 and past the suction of the other two marks. My thought was throw everything behind the point to less and less water then run a blind off that point and deep left of it. Anyways everyone did real well. 
One of our training buddies is retiring from teaching in June, and has this insane schedule of hunt tests up north lined up. From July to October, EVERY weekend she is at a hunt test, field trial or duck hunting trip, all up in the upper midwest, to Canada, to New York, ending up at the GRCA national HT & qual. Her dog is a three year old of field trial breeding who was pushed through senior too fast this spring, and she has her in all these master tests, quals and real hunting. I think she is going to spend a lot of money to discover how quickly she can fry her dog's brain and ruin any training she has at this point........


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## MillionsofPeaches

Stacey, down here there are a lot of Boykins in hunt tests and my trainer runs his client's as well as his own Boykins in hunt tests. I love watching them, I love working with them, and I love watching their drive. Oh and I can't forget the bouncing! We can't wait! Oh and being that they are the SC state dog and I live ten minutes from the border, a lot of nationals and fun events are very close to me. So yes, they are everywhere around this part of the woods! Some people love them and other people HATE them, there seems to be not much middle ground in that department.


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## Alaska7133

I love watching spaniels bounce! They make everything look very fun don't they!


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## MillionsofPeaches

yes, like tigger!!


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## boomers_dawn

We were supposed to have our Tuesday am group but most ppl cancelled so a couple of us trained locally separately.

Dee Dee did several winger marks, which was good for her, because it's time to start weaning off the baby help. The only thing she had trouble with all day was a long long long mark up a hill with the bird landing in a slot. She tried it 3 or 4x and couldn't do it - after the 2nd time she was stuttering and not going - it almost looked like she couldn't believe her eyes and just stood there. I'm reading it as an inexperience and confidence issue and needing more training.

I'm tempted to start signing her up for tests but must keep reminding self, needs more experience with BIRDS, needs to show me she remembers how to SWIM, and needs more experience staying out there looking and coming back with something!


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## gdgli

Alaska7133 said:


> I love watching spaniels bounce! They make everything look very fun don't they!


I love watching spaniels work. Very entertaining.


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## gdgli

Buffy's tune up is coming along. Actually I am surprised at how quickly she is being "re-educated". Rainy weather today and tomorrow spoils things. 

Club training at Southern Berks again on Saturday.

Also, the Frank Pomes Memorial HRC Hunt Test went well. And I did see some nice Goldens there. (Actually Buffy started flirting with one nice looking male.)


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