# Syzygy Goldens



## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

In the current litter, it appears that Trekker (the Dad), who I assume is Blackpool's Walk N to Syzygy does not have his final hip and elbow clearances even though he is now 3 y.o..


----------



## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

I'm always curious about a breeder who has never really been mentioned by anyone on GoldenRetreiverForum.com. I don't know if it qualifies as a ding against a breeder if they've never been mentioned on here, but it seems like this site provides decent insight into the reputation of a lot of breeders, because so many people ask questions like these.

The only mention I really find on the forum is a reference to a Syzgy dog being bred to a Gazn Goldens, and the takeaway was that the Syzygy dog had a mildly dysplastic left elbow. http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...der-puppy/124437-experience-gazn-goldens.html 

I've heard of breeders breeding with grade 1 elbows, but I believe it violates the GR COE...

I'm not trying to claim support or opposition to this breeder...just thinking out loud...on a keyboard.


----------



## Artnlibsmom (May 8, 2013)

goldentemperment said:


> I'm always curious about a breeder who has never really been mentioned by anyone on GoldenRetreiverForum.com. I don't know if it qualifies as a ding against a breeder if they've never been mentioned on here, but it seems like this site provides decent insight into the reputation of a lot of breeders, because so many people ask questions like these.
> 
> The only mention I really find on the forum is a reference to a Syzgy dog being bred to a Gazn Goldens, and the takeaway was that the Syzygy dog had a mildly dysplastic left elbow. http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...der-puppy/124437-experience-gazn-goldens.html
> 
> ...


That's what I'm looking for....you thoughts so I surely appreciate them. This breeder is one I found on the English Golden recommended breeder list. So was hopeful. I'm on the road right now, pulling over from time to time to check here. Don't have the time to look at K9 data for a few hours so thought I'd look for input from the forum! Thanks again!

Lisa


----------



## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

goldentemperment said:


> The only mention I really find on the forum is a reference to a Syzgy dog being bred to a Gazn Goldens, and the takeaway was that the Syzygy dog had a mildly dysplastic left elbow. http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...der-puppy/124437-experience-gazn-goldens.html
> 
> I've heard of breeders breeding with grade 1 elbows, but I believe it violates the GR COE...


Not quite--the COE says that they breeder shall have reports on the results of such examinations--not what the results MUST be for a dog to be okay to breed. The COE is a guideline to ensure that breeders are making decisions with all of the relevant information available to them. Depending on the information beind the dog's pedigree on elbow health, the history behind the mate, and information I may have such as prelim results, the possibility of working injury, etc, a unilateral Gr1 elbow would not be a dealbreaker with a dog who otherwise had what I needed for my bitch.

Diane is not a big breeder, but has been in the breed a very long time. The sire mentioned has quite a nice pedigree--and his father is a gorgeous dog, with a lovely temperament. I would check with her to see if she did PennHip for finals instead of OFA.


----------



## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

The Coe aside, isn't one of the implicit goals of breeding to reduce incidence of dysplasia? Are good stud dogs in such short supply? 

I don't know much about breeding, and I know even less about this breeder, but this seems counterintuitive to me.

What's the point of calling it a "health clearance" if it's not really a clearance?



sterregold said:


> Not quite--the COE says that they breeder shall have reports on the results of such examinations--not what the results MUST be for a dog to be okay to breed. The COE is a guideline to ensure that breeders are making decisions with all of the relevant information available to them. Depending on the information beind the dog's pedigree on elbow health, the history behind the mate, and information I may have such as prelim results, the possibility of working injury, etc, a unilateral Gr1 elbow would not be a dealbreaker with a dog who otherwise had what I needed for my bitch.
> 
> Diane is not a big breeder, but has been in the breed a very long time. The sire mentioned has quite a nice pedigree--and his father is a gorgeous dog, with a lovely temperament. I would check with her to see if she did PennHip for finals instead of OFA.


----------



## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Well, with PU, 4 genetic markers (including ichthy which is showing up in like *50%* of the dogs screened as either carrier or affected), and then heart, CERF, and hip screening, plus temperament, and working ability, and then structure, yeah it can be hard to find a good stud dog who is a good match for your bitch both in terms of phenotype and genotype. I have sometimes spent over a year looking before I finally find the right match, as so many of the dogs available now from both field and show lines are full of dogs I will not touch. So if my bitch has a good elbow history behind her, and the only thing "wrong" with the dog is a Gr1 unilateral, and his family history is strong, then yeah, all things considered I am not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

They are screenings, not a black & white yes/no. With the single view xray that is used in OFA elbow clearances in particular, things are unfortunately not that cut and dried, and there has recently been a lot of discussion among breeders about how reliable it is. Some of the research that has been going on at UMich, using MRI to examine the elbows of dogs graded as dysplastic has been showing that in many of the ones labelled Gr1, the "shadow" that causes the GR1 decision is nothing at all--the Gr2 and higher, which are quite obvious could be confirmed by MRI. But they are not yet at the point of offering MRI as a regular screening tool.


----------



## MySpecialDoggies (Jul 23, 2013)

*I have a Syzygy pup*

My cream colored golden Elle is from Brit (Syzygy father). She has the same Mom as Neeli - but looks more like her dad. She's 15 months old!


----------



## MySpecialDoggies (Jul 23, 2013)

Picture of my furkids!


----------



## MySpecialDoggies (Jul 23, 2013)

Don't think I'm able to send private message yet because I don't have enough posts:

Elle's dad is Brit 
Pedigree: Can CH Kyon's Burning White Hot CCA

Her mom & Neeli's Mom is Echo:
Pedigree: Glenview's History Repeats Itself RN CCA CGC

Neeli looks just like Echo except for being a shade darker. So you can see that Elle's coloring is much more like Brit's. As a puppy, people thought she was a lab! She's gotten a little darker as she's matured and her nose is starting to get a bit mottled. She's very sweet and loving and cuddly (as is Neeli) - and they love to play with each other.


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Shelly's answers are on the mark. Also not sure who, when and where health screenings begun being referred to "clearances". No where in the GRCA COE am I aware that the word clearance is used. 
And the reason that many preach about having the screening history behind the parents of a litter is exactly that. Most folks would rather have a dog out of a dysplastic dog with a rock solid hip history in the generations behind it than a dog out of a dog who has passed hips but there are many instances of hip issues behind it. BUT and yes it is a very big BUT (), a breeder needs to really understand what is and what is not in it's lines before making such decisions.


----------



## Artnlibsmom (May 8, 2013)

MySpecialDoggies,
Check out the thread "The life and times of Justice". He is a Syzygy pup with Kyon and Blackpool lineage. Justice's Grandfather would be Brit. Justice's mother Questa is a Brit daughter! We're related....hehe.
Lisa


----------



## Artnlibsmom (May 8, 2013)

Justice's mom - Pedigree: Syzygy Quest 'N Thyme

Justice's dad - Pedigree: Blackpool's Walk N To Syzygy


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Never mind, guess the results were not up yet for Trekker.


----------



## goldentemperment (May 16, 2012)

AmbikaGR said:


> Shelly's answers are on the mark. Also not sure who, when and where health screenings begun being referred to "clearances". No where in the GRCA COE am I aware that the word clearance is used.


The GRCA uses the term on their site Golden Retriever Club of America (GRCA)Health Screenings for the Parents of a Litter

The subtext I suppose one could take from their statement on the above link is that they think that it's shorthand (perhaps for low information consumers...), but I may be reading too much into the phrase "...Breeders often describe their dogs as 'hip, elbow, eye, and heart certified' or as having 'all their clearances'".

But they don't explicitly discourage the term "clearance." As I think about it, the word "clearance" does paint an overly rosey picture of what is actually going on in that process...but I guess it is what it is. I'd never thought about that before...


----------



## Artnlibsmom (May 8, 2013)

Couldn't health clearances be considered, based on exam results, that specific dog is "clear" of those specific problems at that point in time?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Artnlibsmom (May 8, 2013)

AmbicaGR,

What do you mean? Am I missing something that I should be aware of?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Artnlibsmom said:


> AmbicaGR,
> 
> What do you mean? Am I missing something that I should be aware of?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I do not understand what you are asking.


----------



## Artnlibsmom (May 8, 2013)

AmbikaGR said:


> Never mind, guess the results were not up yet for Trekker.


Just wondering in this post?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Artnlibsmom said:


> Just wondering in this post?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



Oh that! 
I was wondering why someone stated Trekker did not do have final screenings on elbows and hips. But I later noticed that the date of the post and the date on OFA's site for the screenings might have meant that the final ratings had not yet been posted on the OFA website. So I removed my post with regard to it.


----------



## Artnlibsmom (May 8, 2013)

Oh, ok I thought maybe I was missing something! I tried to do my homework, but its darn confusing!

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Artnlibsmom said:


> Oh, ok I thought maybe I was missing something! I tried to do my homework, but its darn confusing!
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



Forgot to add
Sorry for the confusion.


----------

