# Basic training supplies?



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

At this point, I would buy a 6 pack of white bumpers (Avery) and not worry about the dokken right now. You might try practicing by yourself a bit to get the arc just right, you don't have to be all muscles to get a decent toss. it's really more about coordination and practice. The distances for a WC are not far at all. Since he is older and has obedience, you could also put him in a sit and have him wait while you walk out 6-10 feet and toss it. Then you walk back to him and send him. The more accustomed he gets to watching it fall and then going to get it, the better. It doesn't have to be super long distance.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Thanks for responding Kristy<:

We introduced bumpers back when he was about 2... and have trained him off and on with them since then just on my own. 

With me wanting to go the next step and get him introduced to fetching birds... I thought I needed to get a dokken??? 

This is me trying to play catchup on my own before the next private with a field trainer. 

Glad to hear that major distance is not absolutely necessary. LOL. <= I'm used to throwing dumbbells and bumpers. The dokken has been killing my arm trying to throw it beyond obedience ring distance.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

My equipment:

6-8 orange bumpers minimum
6-8 white bumpers minimum
6-8 flagman bumpers
2-5 stickmen and white shirts
2 wingers with electronics for remote operation 
white stakes


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> 2-5 stickmen and white shirts


What's that???


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## BriGuy (Aug 31, 2010)

You need a bird boy. Otherwise, I do like Nolefan and have Hazel sit and throw from another area, and then return and send her. Our instructor always warns us not to throw from beside the dog too much. I have to admit that having remote launchers would make it more fun, but for now my son works cheap.


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## FosterGolden (Mar 10, 2014)

I would suggest a blind. Make one or buy one. Waiting in the blind and walking from the blind to the line can be pretty tough. Sounds easy, but it's not!


And a whistle for whistle recalls. 


You could do pile work and other drills that don't require a launcher.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

stickmen is a term for something to identify the guns in the field. Its a training technique that field trainings use to ensure marking is developed. IN the WC/WCX they follow field trial rules not hunt rules so the gunners (bird boys) will be wearing white jackets so the dogs can identify them efficiently. Stickmen can range from very pricey mannequins to homemade. 

Before I had throwers and trained alone I had wingers to use. It was a pain to set them up for one or two dogs but what else could I do. I used homemade stickman (a blind pole withe a hung up white shirt on a clothes hanger) and placed it in front of the gunners so the dog knew where the bird was coming from. 

I also always have about 12 white small bumpers 6 small orange bumpers, a long check cord, a whistle, a tab for the collar, a blind pole, a few white shirts for myself to wear, and then my training devices like a collar and if I'm alone a winger but nowadays if I am training alone I'm doing blinds and if I want marks on the weekends I get a family member to throw. The wingers are a major pain now that I've gotten so lazy. 

If I am training alone and I was trianing for a WC and I didn't have a winger then I'd work on sit alone marks, walking out to throw the bumper about 50 yards from the sitting dog, walking back and then sending dog on mark. Walking back burns the memory of the mark making it harder for the dog. Then I'd do the same thing but after coming back to the dog I'd throw another mark 90 degrees off to the side to make a solft double. Have the dog get that and then come back in and send him on the first mark. This will teach the dog the motion of the doubles without losing too much control and gives you the opportunity to work on their line manners as far as bringing in the bird. Then after that I'd do two walkout marks making the dog remember two marks while waiting for me to return and send him. Id start with a white bumper on short mowed grass for the clearest black and white concept as possible. 

WC and WCX marks are insanely short and fairly easy unless the judge decides to get creative. I trained a dog for the WC in a month doing this method and throwing her singles in the water. She passed no problems. Basically what you are training for is the rhythm of the test, the motions, the meaning of white jackets, the memory building for the land, the courage for the water. You aren't training for tricky training marks so no need to work too hard.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

The homemade stickmen are good. Less likely to scratch the car by accident which I did with a metal stickman.
I use stand alone (sit alone) marks a lot. Did use send backs but don't like them.

Additional equipment for my last training session:

-2 pairs of boots
-rain parka
-2 holding blinds (one is homemade)
-tab
-insect repellent
-extra bumper bag
-white pail
-clicker (yes, I can clicker train)
-reference materials
-towels---hate to drive home for 2 hours in the cold with wet dogs in crates
-spare whistles
-water bowl and water
-heeling stick
-duct tape, never know what might need repairs


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Yeah, dokkens are expensive toys for people who don't really know what they're doing  Completely unnecessary
I like big white bumpers with flags for marking and little white bumpers for drills or blinds. Don't bother buying orange bumpers at this point, you're miles away from needing them (and frankly, I never use them).
I would make a home-made holding blind.
Beyond that, what I have always in my car :
ecollar
bark collar
whistle
slip lead
pinch collar & regular lead
blind stakes
holding blinds
stick guys
big white bumpers
little white bumpers
rubber place mat
chair
shammy for drying


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

If I were you, I'd print these out and put them in a notebook. That way they're handy and easy to read, keep them in the back of the car. It helps to keep you organized and you can use the notebook to keep track of what you've been doing, progress, problems or questions you want to ask. Anney's list is perfect and Shelby's ideas on what to do should keep you going.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I second the holding blind. you can make one out of 4 fence posts and some fabric. Use something that the dog can't see thru. The dog needs to be inside the blind. It needs to be facing you. A common command people use for the dog to enter the holding blind, is "kennel" to send the dog into the blind. Then "front" to have the dog face you from inside the blind. Practice this until your dog doesn't peak under the fabric and around the side. Give them cookies. Holding blinds are used in all field events (except flushing events). The photo below is how NOT to use a holding blind! The blind is for the dog, not the human. It's good practice to set up a holding blind every time you train. Then the dog will associate blinds with field work and know they have to sit inside one every time.

I'd get a long line, say 30'. Then you can reel the dog back to your side after the retrieve. In the beginning you can just throw really short, then reel them back in. It gives them a target of where to return to when you're training.

Dokkens are popular in my area. I have no idea why. I own a few. Dogs really like them. So if your dog likes the dokken more than the bumpers, use the dokkens. Nothing wrong with making them happy.

You'll need a whistle. Have you gotten one yet? A simple Gonia whistle will work just fine. Keep it on a lanyard around your neck for easy access. 3 toots to get them to return to the line. 

GUN DOG SUPPLY reviews Hunting Dog Training Collars & Supplies for Retrievers & Bird Dogs has everything you need.

holding blind
2 Dokkens
long line
whistle

That should be enough to get you by for a WC or JH.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Alaska7133 said:


> holding blind
> 2 Dokkens
> long line
> whistle
> ...


Well, so long as you have friends who can bring birds, guns, decoys, and all the other stuff you'll need to actually be prepared for a WC or JH....

Getting started is one thing but being test-ready is another.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

K9-Design said:


> Well, so long as you have friends who can bring birds, guns, decoys, and all the other stuff you'll need to actually be prepared for a WC or JH....
> 
> Getting started is one thing but being test-ready is another.


That is why I'm training at a place and paying to use their stuff.. :grin2: 

Have made a practical list based on what people have said and based on our goals (we got low goals). Have been very cautious not to overdo it in case I can't continue due to other things but I get I need a lot more bumpers than I have right now (2) for pile work, and so on. Last time I played in field (back when Bertie was 2), my job situation changed and that kinda busted up any extra time I had. 

I may have a puppy later this year (ish) so have been kinda thinking ahead to being able to start him out early with practical stuff while also giving Bertie something fun to do this summer.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

One more question.... I'll ask my instructor this too, but....

If recalls are already built into the retrieve, why are whistles needed? 

It's something that has been quirking at the back of my head from when I was 15 or so and doing our first hunting retriever classes and the instructor back then demoed using a whistle.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Megora said:


> One more question.... I'll ask my instructor this too, but....
> 
> If recalls are already built into the retrieve, why are whistles needed?
> 
> It's something that has been quirking at the back of my head from when I was 15 or so and doing our first hunting retriever classes and the instructor back then demoed using a whistle.


The whistle reminds them, hey over here, I'm the one that you're supposed to bring that bird to. It puts pep in their step. 

Later on, if you go beyond JH, you'll need a whistle for handling aka, running blinds. 

Have you tried your dog on birds yet?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Alaska7133 said:


> The whistle reminds them, hey over here, I'm the one that you're supposed to bring that bird to. It puts pep in their step.
> 
> Later on, if you go beyond JH, you'll need a whistle for handling aka, running blinds.
> 
> Have you tried your dog on birds yet?


OK - gotcha. So not completely necessary at a very basic level if you're not really looking past that level. 

No birds yet. The person I was training with before was just focusing on bumpers 100%. The guy I'm training with now will be guiding us into all that in privates starting up in a couple weeks. So we are getting one on one attention and problem solving...


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

I personally think the whistle is an obedience tool and since you know obedience even more than hunt/field, then you would appreciate using the whistle. 

Its easy to incorporate into your every day obedience routine. At heel when you stop and they are supposed to sit you blow a whistle When you call them into hear you tweet a couple times here. Honestly, its a great addition to their repertoire and something very easy for an obedience gal like you to work on. 

AT a trial even though its ingrained into the minds to come back, there are times where I needed get their attention, like a duck wing over their eye blocking their vision. Tweeting them in helps them know where to go. Sits are good for control no matter how you use them. Even if you use them behind the holding blind. 

you get the idea. 

I wouldn't worry too much about live ducks during training until you really really need them.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

@ Shelby - I just get visions of me going all Captain Von Trapp whistling at my dog. LOL. Why not just use your voice?


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Really, you don't need a whistle at this point. Every junior handler out there comes to the line with a whistle, because it gives them something to do. The dog's gonna come back with it, don't worry, whether you lean on that whistle or not!


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Megora said:


> @ Shelby - I just get visions of me going all Captain Von Trapp whistling at my dog. LOL. Why not just use your voice?


At some point, your dog might be too far away to hear your voice (especially if you have a small, girly voice like me!). 

We used a lot of voice in the beginning - lots of encouraging - because when they are really young and just starting, it's NOT always built in. They might go running out after the bumper or bird, and then take off and want you to chase. That's where the long line and lots of encouraging calls in help. Once your dog is off the long line and coming in (it doesn't take long), you can start a whistle, but you don't NEED to. You can definitely do a JH and WC without a whistle, but I find it's good to start getting them used to the whistle recall for later handling use. I started to use the whistle for recall a few months before I was going to start teaching whistle sits.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Megora said:


> @ Shelby - I just get visions of me going all Captain Von Trapp whistling at my dog. LOL. Why not just use your voice?


I guess its what ever you want to do. I find puppies respond well to tweet tweet as they're coming in with the bumpers. I also hoot and hollar as well. Over time I do less hooting and hollering and just use the whistle. If I could go without then it would be the sit whistle but I really value the here whistle. IF they are playing outside in my yard I hav a whistle by the door and tweet it and they all coming running. 

That is just a personal training style I enjoy as far as just using your voice. I don't particularly like to talk to my dog too much. I'm not dead silent to my dog but I want to save my voice when I want the dog to really listen. I don't want to become a nag to my dog I guess. 

Everyone has their own training styles


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I want to mention one thing about the whistle/voice recall thing. Dogs hear voices as noise. They pick out particular words as commands. Everything else we say is noise. A whistle recall is a direct command and dogs learn it very easily. It give clarity in a situation that can be intense. You will not want to recall using the dog's name. You use the dog's name to send the dog. It signals the dog that it's their turn, not Fido's turn that might be sitting next to them. Another reason to not use a voice for recall. Also when the dog comes all the way back and gives you the bird, then it's ok to praise. Don't praise too early, like when the dog is on the way back with their bird, or before they've even gotten to the bird. Praise at the wrong time can confuse the dog and give them the idea that they have completed the task and can now do whatever they want. As a junior hunt test judge, there is nothing more annoying than a handler that has praised the dog continuously as they are bringing the bird back, then when the dog gets close, the handler is now begging the dog to bring the bird. Save your voice for specific commands like here, heel, sit, etc. Clarity is so important, your dog will appreciate it. Sometimes I need to be reminded of it myself.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Training utility stuff... you literally bite your tongue to keep from saying ANYTHING when the dog finds the right article or follows the mark to the right glove. The impulse is to praise the dog, but if you say something BEFORE the dog reaches the right glove and committed to the retrieve, it can be a distraction. And then with articles, the dog expects you to praise him when he's "right" (the dogs who touch/semi pick up an article and look back to you). 

The field stuff compared to obedience work is more relaxed/casual right now. <= Have no idea how that will change in the next month or so, but if I say anything at all, it's me hollaring "YES-COME" the instant Bertie picks up the dokken. There is no praise or rewards until he's within arm's reach. 

Guess I should say - there is some formality (I set up and send the same way every time) only in making sure he knows he's working. If he knows he's working, I usually have speed going out and speed coming back with no detours.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Megora, I'm sorry I've gone a bit hard on the whole whistle thing. In the beginning call him and be happy when he picks up the bird or bumper. You'll graduate to just using the whistle. I sometimes leap ahead on training steps. Be happy be excited blow the whistle an hollar a lot in the beginning. Then tone it down once he gets the hang of it. Don't over think it. Sorry I was bit over the top on the whistle vs voice.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Just updating a couple weeks later... 

Finally got out there and introduced my little guy to birds.... and enjoyed a very illuminating hour of training and talking fieldwork (specifics about tests, asking questions, etc) with the guy I'm training with.

The guy we are training with is awesome - part of that I could see with his handling of Bertie. He does not believe in rough handling and his primary big deal is getting the dogs revved up and happy while working. He does use FF and ecollars and will teach people how to use those tools, however those are tools that are not pulled out right away for every single dog. 

The big hump we had to get over + still need to smooth is getting Bertie to understand that it's OK to do what he wants with a live bird. And that's undoing 5 years of leave it training - stuff that I had to really drill and work on so I could have a dog who could hike offleash around ponds without chasing after every duck, goose, or crane in sight... he was excited and very interested in the crippled bird he was tested on, but balked about actually picking it up. He kept coming back to check with me and going back out and chasing his bird. 

Dead birds - we did some FF (not ear pinching or using pain) last night and this morning and he now is retrieving happily. Am resisting the urge to ask the field guy if I can go out there and train every week with a live or dying bird. We are technically training on our own 3 weeks between privates with him. 

So updating my basic beginner training supplies as of this moment while we are getting going:

Hard bumper for using in water retrieves. Or my dokken.

Cloth bumper + bird wing taped on for scent training (and land retrieves). Had it drilled into me to not throw into water because the whole point of using the cloth bumper is because it holds scents and next best thing to always using a bird when training. He also wanted me to keep the bumper and wing bagged together in the fridge in between training sessions. 

Ton of different bird wings kept in the freezer - to be used with the cloth bumper. I'm to switch it up when the wing with the bumper gets too gross.

Dead bird kept bagged in my freezer. To be trained with 1-2 times a week (though I'm doing daily training sessions to start with).  

**** And I now understand why everyone has their special fridge/freezer just for supplies. That's next on my list...


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Megora said:


> Dead birds - we did some FF (not ear pinching or using pain) last night and this morning and he now is retrieving happily.


Just curious what you used for "force" in the force fetch? 

On the freezer thing. Make sure you dry your birds completely, wrap in newspaper, and set each bird individually inside a plastic shopping bag. Don't seal the bag, leave it open so that the bird continues to dry and isn't sealed up. I use an old piece of chain link fencing to dry my birds. If they've been in the water, I hose them off first, then hang them to dry on the fence. Too wet outdoors, and I do it in the garage with a fan blowing on them. Take good care of your birds and they will last for years.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Just curious what you used for "force" in the force fetch?


Same mandatory "you will take it" methods I used in obedience and or tying what I wanted him to do here with the same training he already got back when he was a 6 month old pup who was driving me nuts by fetching his dumbbell and throwing it at me.  

But not pinching my dog's ears, choking him, twisting his toes, zapping him or whatever else "FF" might technically mean.


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