# Golden Biting



## marie22 (Jan 26, 2008)

Hi,
I am posting because our 14 month old golden has started to bite. He was always a very mouthy puppy especially when it came to feet. It's really been just recently that my feet and ankles aren't covered with scratches and bruises, but it was never an aggressive thing. We tried to correct it with bitter-apple, giving him a toy instead, all the standard stuff (we tried the yelping thing but it never phased him whatsoever).

Then a few months ago he bit my 11 year old daughter on the foot. We were all sitting at the table playing a board game and he was trying to gnaw on her foot, as he always does. She shooed him off and he snarled and bit her. I mean really snarled and bit her. There was blood everywhere and it was just short of needing stitches. 

After that we got very strict and he was not allowed to put his mouth on us whatsoever even gently or in play. We thought it was an isolated incident and had been taken care of. Then one day one of the kids dropped a corndog on the floor, the same daughter went to grab it and he bit her on the foot again. This time it didn't break the skin but bruised her foot really bad and made it swell.

Obviously upset we contacted the breeder and discussed it with them. They suggested that we take him to have him neutered and also have our daughter go to a dog obedience class with him. I'm looking for a class and am getting ready to take him in to get him neutered. 

3 days ago he bit my 3 year old for no reason, didn't break the skin but left 4 deep indentations that turned into raised bruises. He just did the same thing to m 11 year old again. All they were doing was playing with a basket ball, the dog snarled and bit her in the arm. 

I am starting to feel like a real dumb***. I don't think, no matter what, that I can trust him with kids. I can see where the neutering is going to help and how my daughter exerting her dominance with an obedience class will help, but I don't think a dog should have to be dominated by kids to not bite them! I don't want to just throw away a pet but on the other hand I don't want to ignore warning signals!

I got him specifically because we wanted a gentle family dog and now my daughter is scared of him!

The breeder offered to take him for a few weeks to evaluate him and also to have him be around other dogs and learn how to behave himself. I might take him up on it. I'm starting to wonder if any of it will matter, he never tries any of that with my husband and I, if we give him a command he immediately complies, heck, if my 3 year old tells him to sit or lay down he immediately does it. He doesn't growl at strangers or strange dogs, he is basically a non aggressive dog except in these weird incidents where he just seemingly out of the blue bites a kid.

He has no food aggression or aggression over his toys, except for those incidents. 

I could really use some advice. My son in particular would be absolutely heartbroken if we got rid of him, and I don't take my responsibility to the dog lightly, on the other hand I can't put my kids in danger and I worry the next time it won't just be bruises, in fact, I can't accept there being a next time.

Please help.

Marie


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## LogansMama (Mar 7, 2009)

So it is aggressive? or he is just to excited and it's more of a play thing?...


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## Thor0918 (Feb 28, 2008)

I think school is a great idea for all!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

This is very strange behavior. Has he had his thyroid levels evaluated? 

A full workup by a vet is probably in order. A dog who's feeling pain or has some other condition can sometimes exhibit bizarre behavior like this.

It may not help to treat it as a "dominance" issue. Since the incidents seem to be otherwise unrelated to milder aggressive behaviors, there may be an aggression or a fear trigger that's setting him off. Is there anything else that these incidents have in common? It seems weird that he got your daughter's food when she reached for the corn dog. I'm having trouble imagining that scenario so I'm having trouble making educated guesses about why he responded the way he did.

How is the dog disciplined? Has he ever been struck, even gently, on the nose or anywhere when he was mouthy or otherwise bad?

If you can post a picture of him, we may be able to confirm thyroid problems as a potential cause. Out of whack thyroid values can cause very distinctive changes to the coat.

In the meantime, you can start hand-feeding him his meals instead of leaving them in a bowl. Once he has the hang of being nice about it with the adults, slowly transition to having the kids do it a little, _under meticulous supervision_ at first, of course. This and other techniques from a Nothing-In-Life-Is-Free (NILIF) program can help establish a clear chain of command in his mind.

Still, given the way you've described the incidents, it seems like something different from basic food aggression or leadership confusion.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

Gilmour, at 9 weeks, is a major Land Shark. This is to be expected though.

I'm not sure if it's normal at 14 months. I don't remember 

Isn't teething over with by 14 months?

It's been nine years since I've had a puppy around here so I'm kinda re-learning myself.

I have been reminded that Puppies think toes are delicious though


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## marie22 (Jan 26, 2008)

LogansMama said:


> So it is aggressive? or he is just to excited and it's more of a play thing?...


The mouthing that he has done since he was a puppy was just play, but these times he has bitten he made the snarling sound a dog makes as it aggressively bites someone. There is no mistaking it that he is being aggressive.


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## marie22 (Jan 26, 2008)

tippykayak said:


> This is very strange behavior. Has he had his thyroid levels evaluated?
> 
> A full workup by a vet is probably in order. A dog who's feeling pain or has some other condition can sometimes exhibit bizarre behavior like this..


 
No he hasnt. I will do that.



> It may not help to treat it as a "dominance" issue. Since the incidents seem to be otherwise unrelated to milder aggressive behaviors, there may be an aggression or a fear trigger that's setting him off. Is there anything else that these incidents have in common? It seems weird that he got your daughter's food when she reached for the corn dog. I'm having trouble imagining that scenario so I'm having trouble making educated guesses about why he responded the way he did.


It's mostly around the one daughter who is now afraid of him so maybe he feels like he can get away with it with her. I didn't witness the corndog incident. I just asked her and she said he was grabbing the corndog and she started pushing him away from it with her hands and he reached down and bit her foot.





> How is the dog disciplined? Has he ever been struck, even gently, on the nose or anywhere when he was mouthy or otherwise bad?


No. That make me think of something though. One of the things he does with feet is try to run up and bite them while you are walking. Lately when I give him a firm "No" when he does that he will lean back and then spring up at me, sort of playing but also as though he is angry I wont let him have his 'toy'. He really is obsessed with feet. The first time he bit my daughters foot so bad it was like prey drive, like how he might act if a small animal tried to get away rather than it just being a foot. I have grasped him by the scruff and given him a shake, not hard but firm, when he would't stop being mouthy.



> If you can post a picture of him, we may be able to confirm thyroid problems as a potential cause. Out of whack thyroid values can cause very distinctive changes to the coat.




















> In the meantime, you can start hand-feeding him his meals instead of leaving them in a bowl. Once he has the hang of being nice about it with the adults, slowly transition to having the kids do it a little, _under meticulous supervision_ at first, of course. This and other techniques from a Nothing-In-Life-Is-Free (NILIF) program can help establish a clear chain of command in his mind.


 
We already do most of the NILF stuff. And he isn't food aggressive. The kids hand feed him all the time and he is gentle as can be. In fact, one of our cats likes to lay in his food bowl and eat his food and he just stands there looking down at her but he doesn't get aggressive at all. I take food and other items out of his mouth all the time and he doesn't get aggressive. It is almost like he loses himself for a second. Immediately afterward he puts his tail between his legs and slinks almost on the ground! Like today, it was over a basketball, not one of his. He wanted it and Sophie had it and he bit her then he immediately regretted it. 

Maybe I will start having that particular daughter give him all his meals though. 



> Still, given the way you've described the incidents, it seems like something different from basic food aggression or leadership confusion.


I agree. I will get him to the vet and have the thyroid checked though.

Thanks for taking the time to go over this with me!

Marie


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## Abbydabbydo (Jan 31, 2007)

TK covered it vey well and I would agree that the dog is confused. Seems like a bite that doesn't break the skin must have been hard to have bruised, but there was some inhibition there if it didn't break the skin. I think it would be a great idea to let the breeder evaluate for a couple of weeks while you regroup and find an obediance class. 

Good luck!


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

If your breeder will evaluate him that is a good place to start. You should also have a trainer come into your home to evaluate him with your family. There is something going on with him that needs to be seen by a third party with experience so they can tell you what is really going on.

In the meantime, please do not leave him unsupervised with your children.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I am sorry you are going thru this but I agree with Tippykayak. Also a good dog behaviorist should come to the home and evaluate you and the family to see how things are done. And when you do the obiedence training it isnt so much a dominance over the dog, it is working together to help him become the dog you want and the dog he is meant to be. Having the breeder working with you is also good. Maybe she can evaluate him also for you. Good luck


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Is this Haiku, the Seasonsgold puppy from last year? Very sorry if I am remembering that wrong!!?? I'll try to look it up in a sec.

Tippykayak's post is fantastic, and I agree about the thyroid. The foot issue/fetish reminds me of several border collies I see out and about. At Tally's class tonight, I'll ask how to this particular woman dealt with the feet-obsessed border collie she rescued last year bc she has really changed him drastically for the better

Just to be blunt though, if there's no thryroid or pain problem, I would be very worried about this too, because that is completely bizarre behavior from a golden, seems to be escalating, and isnt a common syndrome I recognize at all. It's another aspect of Tippykayak's post with which I agree. There are so many good tips and techniques for dogs& kids with dominance issues etc, but this just doesnt feel norma as I read about the circumstances and severity of the bite.

I hope the breeder might take him back, work with him, and place him responsibly in a home without children, so you won't have to feel too terrible. It's sounds very nerve-wracking, and also not good for kids who start out adoring dogs and then learn not to trust them. I am so sad for this situation and also anxious about it.

You sound so clearheaded about it, especially with the prey drive/foot comment. It may be that this is not a kids dog by his mental wiring. Everyone knows I am dog-sappy, but I couldnt keep a golden who bit a child with serious intent, and I would not at all question your decision if you decided to draw the line here.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I totally agree with Jill. Let us know how it goes. You are a committed responsible owner and parent.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

I agree with the thyroid evaluation too.

Full thyroid panel...NOT in house test.

Even if the Vet says he/she sees no reason to.....just have them do it.

And then, look into a behaviorist/trainer.

Best of luck!


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## Finn's Fan (Dec 22, 2007)

A canine behaviorist who can come to your home and see the normal family interactions may be able to shed some light on your pup's problem. I don't blame you for not trusting him, so if the behaviorist isn't helpful, I'd return him to the breeder for evaluation and possible rehoming. It can't be fun for your daughter to be frightened in her own home! Good luck, and I hope you find an answer soon.


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## acquila (Dec 24, 2008)

when he bit on the corndog situation, was there any Adults around who saw it happen? the reason I'm saying this is because there was an situation with one of my goldens and my 9 year old sister last summer, she freaked out saying patience jumped up on her and tried to bite her, well i didn't believe this because Patience is the most calm nice dog ever! she lets the kids sleep on her, she has never bitten, growled or anything, so i told her i don't think thats what happend, well 1/2 hour later she siad she tried biting her again, o.k so i told her to stay away from patience ( its hard to seperate dogs from kids when there are 8 kids in a 2 bedroom house). so a while later, i noticed that my sister went into the family room ( its at the back of the house) and then you could hear a little squiking sound, and patience ran into the family room, so i follwed and hid behind the doorway and watched, my sister had patiences sqeeky toy and was putting it by her mouth sqeeking it, then reaching her arm up and sqeeking it, patience jump up to get the toy and my sister wouldn't let her, she did this again, then dropped the toy and yelled " she tried to bite me again"! as she ran out of the room, well i stepped out and siad she did huh? i got my mom and my sister told us what she did ( she was threatend with a grounding) she had done this 3 times! I don't know why and she didn't say, but my mom thinks it was for attention.
all I'm saying is when the kids are anywhere near your dog, you should watch what they do, if they know they will get attention by getting bit they might try and get bit. Please don't be mad, I'm not saying your kids would do this, but some kids will.


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## Rocco (Jan 5, 2020)

marie22 said:


> Hi,
> I am posting because our 14 month old golden has started to bite. He was always a very mouthy puppy especially when it came to feet. It's really been just recently that my feet and ankles aren't covered with scratches and bruises, but it was never an aggressive thing. We tried to correct it with bitter-apple, giving him a toy instead, all the standard stuff (we tried the yelping thing but it never phased him whatsoever).
> 
> Then a few months ago he bit my 11 year old daughter on the foot. We were all sitting at the table playing a board game and he was trying to gnaw on her foot, as he always does. She shooed him off and he snarled and bit her. I mean really snarled and bit her. There was blood everywhere and it was just short of needing stitches.
> ...





marie22 said:


> Hi,
> I am posting because our 14 month old golden has started to bite. He was always a very mouthy puppy especially when it came to feet. It's really been just recently that my feet and ankles aren't covered with scratches and bruises, but it was never an aggressive thing. We tried to correct it with bitter-apple, giving him a toy instead, all the standard stuff (we tried the yelping thing but it never phased him whatsoever).
> 
> Then a few months ago he bit my 11 year old daughter on the foot. We were all sitting at the table playing a board game and he was trying to gnaw on her foot, as he always does. She shooed him off and he snarled and bit her. I mean really snarled and bit her. There was blood everywhere and it was just short of needing stitches.
> ...


Rocco just turned a year. I have had problems w snarling & biting as well. Its with everyone, not just children. Its unfortunate that he's been attacked by another dog when he was 7 mths old & I know this has made this situation worse. I hate to say this but Rocco's aggression get so bad that it becomes scary. Much to my dismay I've had to pop his jaws when his mouth was wide open & ready to bite me.
I wld definitely appreciate advice!
Thank you


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Rocco I'm sorry you are having behavioral problems with your dog. Without actually watching what's going on it's going to be hard for anyone on a public internet forum to actually advise you on how to handle this. This is a very old post but if you read through it's obvious that the owner was creating so much of the behavior and actually was rewarding bad behaviors so it escalated.
Point is you must ask yourself some questions
did you get your dog from a reputable breeder? 
have you contacted your breeder about this behavior?
have you taken your dog to the vet for some bloodwork, thyroid check?
have you taken any training classes with your dog?
was your pup in a dog park when it was attacked? if so did you continue going?

physical retaliation is never a good response to any problem. You don't teach kids or dogs not to hit (or bite) by smacking them. You teach them... you protect yourself and your family by not allowing the dog to be put into a situation where it feels the need to defend itself. Outside, a dog run, inside a crate. Most aggressive behavior is out of fear.
Educate yourself so you can educate your dog. If you can't do this then I would suggest returning to your breeder.


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