# Have you ever noticed?



## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

how some people interact with dogs....

Over the Thanksgiving holiday I had my boys around the family. The majority of them are not "dog" people, but have been around dogs at various points in their life. It amazed me how they interacted with my dogs and what they thought was the right way to train and handle dogs. Every command given was yelled. "LEAVE IT" "OFF!!". Every command was repeated, and instantly repeated. No time was given for the dog to actually complete the command. "OFF, OFF, OFFFFF!!!". Any sort of barking was not tolerated - "KNOCK IT OFF". I understand barking is annoying, but my dogs barked once that day when they heard a strange noise outside, they quickly quieted down when I told them it was okay. It is my belief that that is what dogs do? They give you a warning when something out of the ordinary is happening. And then the real kicker of the day. Quote straight from my dad "You only give the dog a command once, then, if they don't listen, you stare them down until they do it because they need to know you're the boss." 

It made me wonder how many people believe this is the right way to train? I just don't understand how this training style makes sense to people. And then I was watching TV the other night and a training infomercial came on about Don Sullivan and his "Perfect Dog Training." In the infomercial was an older couple who had a Golden Retriever puppy. They showed her chewing up toilet paper and furniture, scratch marks on their hands, running around with the zoomies, bolting out the door, etc. The couple explained they couldn't believe what a monster puppy they had. I was a little baffled because she looked like a typical feisty golden retriever puppy to me! They obviously had purchased Don Sullivan's program so now this dog gets pinned to the ground and wears some sort of pinch collar? and all commands are yelled in the dogs face. :no:.

I realize dogs aren't people, but it was beyond frustrating to have all these people yelling in my dogs faces all day. I would not be very likely to listen to someone who told me what to do by yelling in my face. The people in my family always order my dogs around so sternly. And then hear I am with my sing-song voice getting my dogs to do whatever I please (okay so maybe not sing-song, but you get what I'm saying).

I would be standing across the room and one of the boys would jump up on the couch to see someone (they're allowed on the couch at home so it took them a while to understand that wasn't allowed at this house) and all i had to say was "off". I didn't get right in their face and yell at them, I just said it normally, almost softly - didn't move from where I was standing. They listened every time. I've never stared my dogs down or tried to show them that I'm "dominant". What's the point - I just don't get it? I didn't bring these dogs into my life so I can have little minions to boss around to make myself feel bigger. Yes I have yelled at my dogs and put my dogs in time-out, told them no, etc. But all of that has a time and a place. What kind of life is it to be constantly ordered around like you're in boot camp... 

I know so many people who have this Ceaser Milan/Don Sullivan mindset about training dogs - the majority are uneducated pet owners like my family. It just makes me feel sad for the dogs they own. Am I alone in this view? What are all of your thoughts on this kind of training?


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## olliversmom (Mar 13, 2013)

I am a positive method student all the way. Even before it was popular, never thought verbal or physical corrections were the way to go.

Actually had first class with Pam Dennison today. She is one of the pioneers of the positive method training. She has a whole philosophy of shaping an dsuch with the dogs that goes far beyond even what Ollie and I have learned so far in other school. Very excited to work with her.

As for your family. Years ago it was spare the rod spoil the dog child mentality for many. Dogs were not revered as true family members like many are today. 
I have majority of the get- togethers if possible. Fenced yard, acres to run, Ollivers own couch. The humans better stay off there. Lol. Ollie is pretty well behaved around folks and most of my folks respect the work I have done with him and realize he is just a baby that may lack in a few social graces. But I tell everyone how he will be disciplined in my own home. There no other way allowed.


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## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

I try to be as positive as I can with my dogs because I realize, being a very new to all of this, more often than not they make mistakes because of me - either I unintentionally rewarded something I don't want or I taught something wrong or didn't make something clear. I'm not against correction based training or training methods that use aversives and punishment. Everyone has their own method and I think that when used correctly all training methods create happy dogs and great working relationship between dog and handler. But, for me at least, I will never understand the fear and intimidation - based training method. 

I find all training extremely interesting and am always trying to learn more. Does your trainer Pam Dennson have any online material I could read to learn more?


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## olliversmom (Mar 13, 2013)

coaraujo said:


> I try to be as positive as I can with my dogs because I realize, being a very new to all of this, more often than not they make mistakes because of me - either I unintentionally rewarded something I don't want or I taught something wrong or didn't make something clear. I'm not against correction based training or training methods that use aversives and punishment. Everyone has their own method and I think that when used correctly all training methods create happy dogs and great working relationship between dog and handler. But, for me at least, I will never understand the fear and intimidation - based training method.
> 
> I find all training extremely interesting and am always trying to learn more. Does your trainer Pam Dennson have any online material I could read to learn more?


If you type in her name her website will come up. She has videos, seminars, and she has authored a bunch of books. Great energy in her class


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## sdhgolden (Aug 13, 2012)

I always notice how others interact with dogs. And it still bugs me when people treat my dogs any different than how how I treat them. 

I think people who don't have dogs have the old school mind set when it comes to dogs. It makes sense I guess since they aren't dog people that they aren't actively learning the proper ways to interact with a dog. It's still extremely annoying. If it's not your dog you shouldn't assert your preconceived ideas about how to interact with a dog onto the dog. I love when people ask me how to tell my dog to do something. They seem to understand not all dogs are taught the same way and I think it's very considerate of them. The worst is when family members or close friends who have dogs of their own yell at your dog and think your dog is an idiot because THEY used a command your dog doesn't know. Yes people use different commands. And yes there is a difference between "sit" and "siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit" (repeated over and over again with no pause to allow the puppy the respond) 
My dad grew up on a large ranch and has a very hillbilly or old school mind set when it comes do dogs. Plus to him dogs are meant to be used for work. His dogs growing up were there to guard the land, kill the unwanted wild life and basically help with other things. I don't really know lol. He loves them but doesn't see them as family. He thinks my dogs are dumb because I said if I left out a big giant bowl of food they would over eat. He doesn't mean it in a mean way he just thinks "dogs these days have no good instincts". Haha Like I said my dad was a hillbilly and my mom was a city girl who was/is terrified of dogs. I grew up not really knowing what to think of dogs. We had one but she was a backyard dog. Which never seemed weird to me until I got a dog of my own and couldn't imagine leaving my dogs outside. I met a guy from Samoa who thought it was so weird how "pampered" dogs were here in the US. He thought it was weird that they were in the house and that people took them for walks. People come from such different backgrounds it's really hard to expect people to think of dogs the same way as us. PLUS on top of all that there are a lot of terrible dog trainers out there teaching new dog people these old school ways of training. 
I myself was very uneducated when it came to dogs(considering who my parents were). I was in for a big surprise when I decided I wanted a dog of my own. I used think that I would never use treats to train a dog. Hahaha I still laugh at that one. I couldn't agree more with positive training methods and I don't agree with the dominance theory. 

I wish there was a really good way of informing the public about dogs. 



Sent from Petguide.com App


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## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

olliversmom said:


> If you type in her name her website will come up. She has videos, seminars, and she has authored a bunch of books. Great energy in her class


So I've been putting off studying all night reading articles by your trainer . I liked this one especiallly: Articles: Why I Switch to Positive Training by Pamela Dennison at Positive Motivation Dog Training!

I always like hearing the stories of why trainers went to positive methods. I enjoyed this part 



> I read a few books, among them, Karen Pryor’s “Don’t Shoot the Dog,” and Kevin Behan’s “Natural Dog Training” and still didn’t see the “how.” Then I went to a Leslie Nelson seminar on positive proofing for competition. Eureka! NOW, we’re cooking with gas!


Leslie Nelson is my dog trainer . I LOVE her, she's been so great with my Bernie's fear reactivity and just training in general. I wish my car hadn't died so I could continue to go to class  I should have a new one within a month. Can't wait to go back to class!


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## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

sdhgolden said:


> I love when people ask me how to tell my dog to do something. They seem to understand not all dogs are taught the same way and I think it's very considerate of them. The worst is when family members or close friends who have dogs of their own yell at your dog and think your dog is an idiot because THEY used a command your dog doesn't know. Yes people use different commands. And yes there is a difference between "sit" and "siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit" (repeated over and over again with no pause to allow the puppy the respond)


This right here. I think I may have clapped in agreement when reading this. It's so frustrating. So so so many times people have told my jumping dogs (we're working on it!) "Down, DOWN, DOWWWWN". The command is "Off". They know "Off" and will listen to "Off". They don't understand how to go from jumping to laying down, which is what they're getting told to do. But like you said, people just think your dog is dumb. . 

The other thing is when people tell your dog to do something they don't know how to do or don't know how to do in the current environment they're in. My dogs know "leave it", but its not something we practice all that often so they haven't had enough training to generalize it to everywhere. If something drops on the floor and I say "Leave it" They'll listen. Because that's a lot of what are "Leave It" training consists of. However, when my little sisters bring in their new stuffed bunny rabbit and the dog wants to sniff it, when everyone's yelling "LEAVE IT" at them the dogs 'don't listen'. So of course the dogs are labeled as dumb or bad dogs. But its a whole different scenario with high distractions and high value items that they've never been prepped for. What I asked of my family is to say the command once, if the dog does not follow through just gently remove them from the situation. Luckily my family is good about respecting my orders, but that doesn't change the way they interact with my dogs. So bossy and demanding, jeez!

ETA: Oh and the whole immediacy issue. When I say "Sit" that butt better plop to the floor instantly or else! I mean.. that is the end goal in our training, but if you ask my dogs to sit please give them some time to sit. If you see their butt is on its way to the floor why are you repeating the command? They are doing what you told them. I know very few humans who do what they're asked immediately. Give the dog some time to process!


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