# My Golden bit my son today



## jkmom (Jan 4, 2008)

I really feel like it was all my fault too.  

My son is 7, and he has been helping me feed our dogs. Lola, the golden retriever is almost 2, and Fletcher is 14. Lola and Fletcher always have to inspect each others bowls after eating, and while they were doing this today, my son tried to pull Lola away from Fletcher's bowl by her collar (he thought he was trying to help). She turned and bit his forearm. It all happened so fast that I didn't have a chance to tell him to stop. It didn't break the skin, but it did leave marks. 

She is a very sweet dog, very high energy, but never has shown signs of agression before. As a matter of fact I have been very sensitive to bites and agression in the past several months because my brother's dog bit his baby- which was related to food. So I have really made it a point to have my hands in her food bowl, move it away, etc so that it's no big deal to her. She gets a lot of exercise- I take her running with me at least 3-4 times a week and on the days I don't run with her, I walk her for at least 45 minutes. I have also been trying to fairly regularly work on obidence with her. My main goal is really just to have her be a trusted member of our family- trusted off leash, trusted around our kids and their friends.

I am not sure how to proceed now though. I have always been cautious with the children around the dogs, although I'm sure it doesn't sound like it from today's incident.  I know that my son shouldn't have been trying to pull her away from the bowl. Could this have just been an isolated incident or could it be a sign of more serious behavioral issues that are just coming out? What other things should I watch for as signs of agression? My son and daughter have always given Lola treats, and they have also been trying to work with her to get her to fetch and sit and she always does quite well with that. Should I keep doing that with the children? Should I let them help me feed her?

I did take Lola to a 6 week puppy class and I want to do more training with her. We are living overseas at the present time, and are moving back to the states in a few months, and I will definitly pursue more training at that time. I was just hoping someone might have some advice to help get us through until that time.

Thanks in advance.


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

Some goldens can be "food guarders" and "resource guarders". I'm certainly not trying to condone the biting but trying to pull Lola away from a resouce by the collar was probably not the best way to approach the situation. That has a tendency to reinforce the "guarding" symptom and is probably what prompted the bit. I'm sure that some of the breeder and trainers will chime in. Flying Q really knows her stuff--I'll drop her a pm.


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## Coffee'sDad (Mar 10, 2008)

Wanted just to reply because "I feel your pain." I sincerely hope this resolves itself and everyone "heals" from this. I can only imagine that this is upsetting for you son and everyone in the family...Lola included. Don't know if it's too late now, but I was fortunate to have a trainer teach me to desensitive Coffee with her food. When she was just 8 weeks old, I'd make her wait for her food 'til I told her it was ok, and purposely interrupted her eating so she wouldn't be protective. I also would hold her across my lap with her neck in the crook of my arm, and then touch her all over. If she nipped, I'd correct her. Now I can do her nails, brush her teeth, bathe her, clean her ears and "parts" and she doesnt resist. I know you're not dealing with a puppy at this point, so this may not be of help; but I just wanted to chime in to let you know we're all pulling for you!

dg


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

I think it is time for you to start hand feeding Lola and after a while start letting your son had feed her. It really works wonders for resource guarding. Good luck to you and please keep us posted. Those quick snaps are a bit of a reflex and are seldom blood inducing attacks. More of a warning but must be dealt with none the less.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

I have a sweet, tolerant Golden...and he's a guarder. He only guards his food...nothing else. I put Iam's gravy in his bowl as he is eating his kibble and it has done wonders to reinforce that I am not a threat and that people walking by his bowl is not a threat. It has changed his "reaction" so to speak. Not real sure how he would react if my 8 year old pulled his collar as he ate.....

I'm sure you'll get lots of advice from the great trainers on this board.


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## ShadowsParents (Feb 27, 2007)

Oaklys Dad said:


> I think it is time for you to start hand feeding Lola and after a while start letting your son had feed her. It really works wonders for resource guarding. Good luck to you and please keep us posted. Those quick snaps are a bit of a reflex and are seldom blood inducing attacks. More of a warning but must be dealt with none the less.


I would agree with what Rob said. Start hand feeding the dogs so they know YOU control the food. Give it to them at your pace, not theirs. Make the dog 'leave it' until you give the go ahead. Then slowly start to introduce your son into the equation so the dog learns good things (food) come from him as well.

good luck.


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## Old Gold Mum2001 (Feb 25, 2007)

Oaklys Dad said:


> I think it is time for you to start hand feeding Lola and after a while start letting your son had feed her. It really works wonders for resource guarding. Good luck to you and please keep us posted. Those quick snaps are a bit of a reflex and are seldom blood inducing attacks. More of a warning but must be dealt with none the less.


 
Yup, what Rob said, and I've also heard when you put your hand in the food bowl to drop something real yummy into their food so they look forward to you putting your hand in there and coming to know it's as good thing 

I also pick up food dishes as soon as they're done.


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## TiffanyK (Mar 3, 2008)

All I can say on this topic is that I am glad that you have this forum as a resource - as I am glad to have this forum! What a great group of people and a wealth of info on all topics. I don't think you have anything to kick yourself for at all! 

Tiffany


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I dont think you have done anything wrong, like Rob and everyone said it sounds like you just need to work with her more. Also your son grabbing her collar could have startled her and she was just reacting. Your son working with her also will help both of them feel more secure. Good luck and Im glad your son wasnt hurt badly and isnt traumatized by the incident.


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## Bogart'sMom (Sep 16, 2005)

when I took Bogart to puppyclass 2 years ago the trainer wanted us to handfeed all the puppies for 6 months so the dogs learn that there is always someone close while they eat and all food comes from us. Also they learn to take food gently from your hand. I did that and it worked great. I don't know how it works with an adult dog that is food guarding I hope you'll find the right way for you. 
All the best,


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## winewinn (Jan 7, 2008)

jkmom said:


> I really feel like it was all my fault too.
> 
> My son is 7, and he has been helping me feed our dogs. Lola, the golden retriever is almost 2, and Fletcher is 14. Lola and Fletcher always have to inspect each others bowls after eating, and while they were doing this today, my son tried to pull Lola away from Fletcher's bowl by her collar (he thought he was trying to help). She turned and bit his forearm. It all happened so fast that I didn't have a chance to tell him to stop. It didn't break the skin, but it did leave marks.
> 
> ...


One thing you might try is having you hold Lola by the collar so she can see your son put a piece or two of food into her bowl. Make sure she sits before he does this and make sure she sees him place the food in her bowl. Then allow her to eat. Try to do this often. I don't know how effective it will be on a dog that is already two years old, but this is something that is done with puppies at an early age so that food aggression doesn't happen.


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## Bob-N-Tash (Feb 24, 2008)

Since you didn't have a history of aggressive behaviour it does sound like an isolated incident. Your son's actions probably just surprised Lola. 
But it seems to me that both Lola and your son could benefit from some supervised training. 

We have been working on teaching our 5 month old puppy to gently take food from our hands. It used to be when he was excited he would snap and grab. To counter condition this behaviour I would feed him treats one at a time....holding firmly to the treat and not releasing my hold until he took it in a civilized manner. 

In addition to hand-feeding we have made it a practice to interupt our dogs when they are working on toys, bones, or rawhide.... often to just take the prize away inspect it and then return it to the dog. In those instances when we want to take something away from the dog we will usually make a trade.... offering an acceptable goodie in place of something verboten. Using this technique we have been successful in raising dogs that will allow us to take anything away from them.

None of this happens overnight... and initially it must be done in an non-threatening manner.... but it really isn't very difficult...


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Scary for you and your son no doubt...but on a positive note....Lola showed a great deal of restraint, she could have bitten him with much more force and caused much more damamge ... and 2nd - your son learned a very valuable life-lesson that will help keep him safe around other dogs...


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## jkmom (Jan 4, 2008)

Thanks so much for all of your advice!


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## schnuffel (Mar 11, 2008)

At first, before making a point about this incident, I would like to say that people should not humanize a creature that is related to wolves and has a hierarchy in its group. Dogs act in part instinctively and must be tamed like other pets. 

As your son has pulled her collar, she may have been instinctively afraid of losing her food. I would say that Lolas behavior is not necessarily aggressive or dominant. She could have been frightened by the unexpected pull on her collar and reacted out of an instinct to defend herself.

In that case, maybe she does not trust your son enough. Instead of feeding Lola out of her bowl, you coud let your son feed her out of his hands. You can sit by his side and let him feed her. Lola can touch the hands and develop a feeling such as trust and repect for him.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

LibertyME said:


> Scary for you and your son no doubt...but on a positive note....Lola showed a great deal of restraint, she could have bitten him with much more force and caused much more damamge ... and 2nd - your son learned a very valuable life-lesson that will help keep him safe around other dogs...


Yup. I agree! Never advised to have kids grabbing dogs around a high value item such as the food bowl.

So long as there isn't a problem with anyone walking past the bowl as the dogs are eating, I'm not sure there's a problem. Yes, we all wish in a perfect world that we could do *anything* to our dogs and they'd happily accept it, but that's just not realistic. I think if anything, this gave you the opportunity to install a new house rule for the kids: they aren't allowed to touch the dogs when they're eating.

Now, if you're getting growling when people walk past as they're eating, that's a different problem with specific tranining tactics to help... Or, if it was a situation where you can't keep your son from grabbing the collar near the bowl, then I guess we could aim to train for tolorance of that specific behavior, but I don't really see the point. I'm not sure that hand feeding will really do much either (since the bite happend over being pulled *from* the bowl), but if there's been no growling over the food, it certainly can't hurt.


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## Katiesmommy (Sep 10, 2006)

I wouldnt bother any animal while eating


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## norabrown (Jul 20, 2007)

Oaklys Dad said:


> I think it is time for you to start hand feeding Lola and after a while start letting your son had feed her. It really works wonders for resource guarding. Good luck to you and please keep us posted. Those quick snaps are a bit of a reflex and are seldom blood inducing attacks. More of a warning but must be dealt with none the less.


Yes! Yes! Yes! Even though you have stuck your hand in her bowl and touched her while eating....it's not the same as "others" doing it. Get the whole family involved if you really think it's a problem.

I'm sure it was an isolated incident based on your saying she is a gentle girl. But just to be on the safe side, do what you can to make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else or to your son again.

How is your son doing? He isn't afraid of her now, is he? I sure hope not. Poor guy!


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## Lisa_and_Willow. (Dec 18, 2007)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Yup. I agree! Never advised to have kids grabbing dogs around a high value item such as the food bowl.
> 
> So long as there isn't a problem with anyone walking past the bowl as the dogs are eating, I'm not sure there's a problem. Yes, we all wish in a perfect world that we could do *anything* to our dogs and they'd happily accept it, but that's just not realistic.


Very true advice but I feel it is good to know we could remove the food away from the dog easily or the dog away from the food. What if they have something dangerous or food they really shouldn't have?


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Lisa_and_Willow. said:


> Very true advice but I feel it is good to know we could remove the food away from the dog easily or the dog away from the food. What if they have something dangerous or food they really shouldn't have?


In that case, if the dog has something dangerous, etc. you institute a trade rather than just go up to the dog and pull on the collar and manually remove the food/object.

I just don't see the point is thinking my dog should let me do something - like remove something from his mouth - just BECAUSE I have thumbs and physically can. And because I do a lot of trading, etc. with my dogs, frankly, I CAN remove stuff from their mouths just for the heck of it (as in, w/o trading for a treat) - I just don't operate from the "because I can" mindset very often and I never take their compliance for granted. It's always rewarded with lots of praise (which I have conditioned to be a powerful secondary reinforcer) and often with a treat (a primary reinforcer).


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## Lisa_and_Willow. (Dec 18, 2007)

Good points about trading, thanks. I need to do that more. Willow is always picking up things she shouldn't and the temptation to just grab it out of her mouth is strong esp. if is something bad for her. But of course this action makes her want to run away and make it game.


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## Goldenhandful (May 14, 2007)

Had the same problem with Barkley when he was a puppy. We began hand feeding for about a week and now every so often, we stick our hands in his bowl just to remind him that we can put our hands in his food WHENEVER we want. He hasn't growled or snapped since (with food). He HAS growled when we've pulled on his collar and showed his teeth. ONly a couple times.

Some food for thought, though. Yes, you should never bother a dog while eating and should train people and children about that when they come in your home. But you really should talk with a behaviorist - biting is NO joke. Kids will be kids and god forbid your son has friends over and they start pulling on your golden. If there is a reaction again and someone gets hurt, then what? I don't know how it is outside NY state, but a dog bite can cost you everything, possibly your dog's life. This is not to scare you, this is reality. I am dealing with some very similar issues and am searching for some good behaviorists so I don't face my dog biting strangers or worse.


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

FlyingQuizini said:


> I just don't see the point is thinking my dog should let me do something - like remove something from his mouth - just BECAUSE I have thumbs and physically can. And because I do a lot of trading, etc. with my dogs, frankly, I CAN remove stuff from their mouths just for the heck of it (as in, w/o trading for a treat) - I just don't operate from the "because I can" mindset very often and I never take their compliance for granted. It's always rewarded with lots of praise (which I have conditioned to be a powerful secondary reinforcer) and often with a treat (a primary reinforcer).


As always, absolutely bang on in my opinion. I have a similar ethos...I hate the fact that many people make a point of constantly putting hands in food bowls, stroking (annoying!) dogs while they are eating...the stupid thing is that it is likely to CAUSE the problem!! I absolutely KNOW I could take anything from my dogs at anytime but that is because I have always respected them whilst they are eating so they have no reason in the world to be in the slightest bit bothered if I approach them or on the odd occasion need to take something out of their mouths. It has always been a good thing to them. On the other hand if I always made an issue out of "teaching" them that I am in control of all food at all times...I am the almighty boss...then they WOULD have a bloody good reason to warn me away!! (and I wouldnt blame them!!) When many people try and show their dog THEY can do anything at anytime it is potentially causing the problem...really try and think about it from the dogs point of view...I do believe you should be able to take away something from your dog in an emergency...but it is how you get the dog to that stage is what I often disagree with.


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## drgrafix (Sep 24, 2007)

I'm going to chime in with the others and suggest hand-feeding for at least two months to make sure Lola gets the idea that humans control food and run the pack. Further, I'd suggest that you make sure all the humans have eaten before Lola is fed. You don't want her thinking she has advanced her status in the pack by eating before you or your family.

I've been around dogs almost all of my 60+ years and I've always followed that guideline whereby humans remove/replace/displace food in the middle of the canine meal in the puppy stage. Its best to start this when they are pups, but if she's 2 years... work on the hand-feeding and make sure she's not snapping the food out as you extend your hand. Make her "work" for the food by showing good manners and she'll actually show you those manners.

The water is over the dam now, but your son should've simply removed the dishes rather than using the collar to pull her away. I don't think it's a big deal though... your dog sounds like she's fine, just a little confused.


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## wagondog (Aug 24, 2007)

This is a perfect example of the work that you may have put into your pup teaching a soft bite.......Most dogs at some point in their lifetime will bite. All the hours we spend teaching our dogs to bite softly without hurting pays off when something like this happens. The difference is a bruise and not a laceration. This is in no way meant to minimize the bite, just to make you feel good about the work that you have put into your dog.


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