# Foster with Behavior Problems



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> George is not neutered, so he's... "sexually frustrated." I read that this can be a dominance thing too. He likes to satisfy his "frustrations" on furniture, and sometimes people. We immediately pull him off people and give him a stern "no," but he isn't deterred. The rescue says he won't be neutered until his heartworm treatments are done.


Okay - mounting is also a way that stressed and anxious dogs blow off steam. Or it's what they do when over-excited and hyped up. Especially if they were not trained early on not to mount things. It's tougher dealing with the behavior when the dog is an adult and never was trained. 

Keep in mind it's not just a sexual type thing. And be patient. 

If he's mounting people, dogs, furniture, laundry piles, blankets, his bed, toys whatever else looks mountable... distract him and train him to calm down. 






> George is desperate for attention. Always. He seems to do well when we leave him home alone, but he is _constantly_ at our sides begging for either attention or food. I'm not really sure how to break him of this habit. When he begs for attention, I found that ignoring him is the only way to get him to settle down -- but it takes him a while to get the hint. When he begs for food, I don't know what to do other than lock him in another room.


 
Again - this is an anxiety and insecurity thing. And remember these dogs don't really do well having long periods of being isolated and alone. It builds up their anxiety and excitement levels when you are home, and there is probably a little seperation anxiety going on. This poor dog's life has been messed up and he's gone through a lot of changes. 





> George's prey drive is really strong and we have an indoor cat. We've had to keep the two separate since George first came here. I've been giving them limited, supervised time together, but George is just too aggressive. He doesn't just roughhouse, he tries to bite the cat every chance he gets. Consequently, I've had to hold him by the collar or keep him on his leash whenever I give them "limited interaction time."


Keep him on leash and put up baby gates or give the cat perches to stay out of the dog's reach. 

We have a cat who ENJOYS roughhousing with our dogs. The benefit when I brought Jacks home was it stopped our cat from harassing my older dog. 




> I never would have considered doing such a thing before we got George, but my wife and I bought him a muzzle earlier today. I thought he would learn to stay away from the cat as long as he couldn't bite. Unfortunately that didn't happen. He immediately backed the cat in the corner and tried slamming him against the wall, all before getting scratched on the nose. I felt awful after this exercise... all it did was terrify our cat and give George a bloody nose.


You know, reading this tells me that you may not be the right foster for this dog. It's clearly giving you anxiety, and you were not prepared possibly for a "busy" and anxious dog. 

Do not feel like you are a failure if you turn him back to the rescue and give him a chance to go to other fosters who have dealt with an anxious dog like him. 

And this is also a way you can provide information to the rescue regarding this dog and the homes he would do best in.


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Paul_S said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I need some guidance, and I don't know where else to turn for help. I've been browsing the forums here for about a week, but things have gotten bad enough to prompt me to post.
> 
> ...


1. Keep working on the training, you are doing a good job. I would add settle on a mat to the things you are working on. You can use this command once he knows it to send him to his mat when he is being too clingy or begging for food.






2. Please have a serious discussion with your rescue about going ahead and having him neutered now. He will be fully recovered before he starts heartworm treatment in December. The vet my rescue uses always does surgery before heartworm treatment. There is a higher risk of clots forming for several months after heartworm treatment and is not a risk you want to run with surgery. I'm sure other vets have the opposite opinion, but neutering him now may also help reduce the humping, there is no guarantee it will.

Using a command like down or sit when he starts doing that will give him another action to do that is in opposition to the humping. Distracting him with a toy or treat to call away, shaking a rattle can (soda can with pennies or rocks in it), or removing him and telling him no are the other options. The best way to teach him not to do it is to catch him when the thought enters his head and stop him before he starts, you have to be watching his body language and see him move that way and redirect him. 

3. Please do not ever put your cat and George together again, it is just too dangerous for your cat. George has proven he is not a dog that can live with a cat peacefully, you should also make sure he is not adopted to home with cats.

You are doing a great job with training already, please don't give up on him. He will learn with some tough love and consistent approach, which I believe you are more than capable of providing.


----------



## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

When I adopted my lab as an adult, I wasn't sure how he would be with my cats. Luckily he did turn out to be fine, but before I knew that I kept him on a leash at all times. For the first few days, I kept him tethered to me with the leash attached to my belt or foot at all times. Luckily he didn't show any aggression towards the cats, so next I kept him on a leash but not attached to me (so I could grab him quickly). I kept that up for a few weeks. Also, I NEVER left them alone together for several months. ANYTIME I wasn't home, the cats were safely locked up in my bedroom.
I'd suggest doing something similar. Also, make sure that the rescue knows he should go to a home without cats.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Using a command like down or sit when he starts doing that will give him another action to do that is in opposition to the humping. Distracting him with a toy or treat to call away, shaking a rattle can (soda can with pennies or rocks in it), or removing him and telling him no are the other options. The best way to teach him not to do it is to catch him when the thought enters his head and stop him before he starts, you have to be watching his body language and see him move that way and redirect him.


Um... if the dog is stressed out of his mind and the mounting and frenetic and clingy behavior is how he is dealing with his uncertainty and anxiety... shaking cans is probably going to freak him out even more. 

Best to be calm and train him to be calm.


----------



## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

"tells me that you may not be the right foster for this dog"

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. I think you're doing great so far and you will continue to do great. Mylissyk has given you some great advice. I've had many adult dogs and I believe you can teach them.
Good luck to you, don't give up ♥


----------



## Paul_S (Nov 10, 2012)

Megora said:


> Keep in mind it's not just a sexual type thing. And be patient.
> 
> If he's mounting people, dogs, furniture, laundry piles, blankets, his bed, toys whatever else looks mountable... distract him and train him to calm down.


Like I suspected, it's not always sexual. We'll stay the course and try our best to dissuade and distract him when he does this.



Megora said:


> Again - this is an anxiety and insecurity thing. And remember these dogs don't really do well having long periods of being isolated and alone. It builds up their anxiety and excitement levels when you are home, and there is probably a little seperation anxiety going on. This poor dog's life has been messed up and he's gone through a lot of changes.


I agree, it looks like he's had a tough life, but he's almost never alone now. I work from home, so we're always together. Nonetheless, he still _craves_ attention. Our last foster also hated being alone, but he was content laying at my feet and just being in the same room. George needs more active, as opposed to passive, attention.




Megora said:


> Keep him on leash and put up baby gates or give the cat perches to stay out of the dog's reach.
> 
> We have a cat who ENJOYS roughhousing with our dogs. The benefit when I brought Jacks home was it stopped our cat from harassing my older dog.


That's exactly what we've been doing. We use a baby gate to keep them separate, but like I said, George wants to bite the cat -- it's not just roughhousing. I thought maybe he was frustrated because we weren't letting him get close enough to investigate the cat on his own terms, but no matter what I try, he still tries to bite the cat.




Megora said:


> You know, reading this tells me that you may not be the right foster for this dog. It's clearly giving you anxiety, and you were not prepared possibly for a "busy" and anxious dog.
> 
> Do not feel like you are a failure if you turn him back to the rescue and give him a chance to go to other fosters who have dealt with an anxious dog like him.


I've suggested this to the rescue, but I was told they don't have any other foster families available. It's very possible that I'm misinterpreting him, but he doesn't seem anxious. He seems like a very happy dog, he's just got too much energy and a strong prey drive! Furthermore, I feel like perhaps I'm perhaps George's best bet -- I'm patient with him and he doesn't have to stay home alone while I'm at work.


----------



## Paul_S (Nov 10, 2012)

mylissyk said:


> 1. Keep working on the training, you are doing a good job. I would add settle on a mat to the things you are working on. You can use this command once he knows it to send him to his mat when he is being too clingy or begging for food.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for the advice and kind words of encouragement. You've given me some good things to try out. I will definitely recommend that whoever adopts George not have a cat, or even small dogs.



mylissyk said:


> 2. Please have a serious discussion with your rescue about going ahead and having him neutered now. He will be fully recovered before he starts heartworm treatment in December. The vet my rescue uses always does surgery before heartworm treatment. There is a higher risk of clots forming for several months after heartworm treatment and is not a risk you want to run with surgery. I'm sure other vets have the opposite opinion, but neutering him now may also help reduce the humping, there is no guarantee it will.


I read something similar, and I think I will suggest that the rescue ask George's vet. I had some questions for his vet before, and the rescue was happy to accommodate me before.


----------



## Paul_S (Nov 10, 2012)

Jennifer1 said:


> When I adopted my lab as an adult, I wasn't sure how he would be with my cats. Luckily he did turn out to be fine, but before I knew that I kept him on a leash at all times. For the first few days, I kept him tethered to me with the leash attached to my belt or foot at all times. Luckily he didn't show any aggression towards the cats, so next I kept him on a leash but not attached to me (so I could grab him quickly). I kept that up for a few weeks. Also, I NEVER left them alone together for several months. ANYTIME I wasn't home, the cats were safely locked up in my bedroom.
> I'd suggest doing something similar. Also, make sure that the rescue knows he should go to a home without cats.


Thank you for the advice. That's currently what we're doing, but George isn't showing any signs of improvement. We first got our cat thirteen years ago, and we had a four year old dog at the time. Introducing them was a slow process, but they were relatively at ease with one another after two weeks. They certainly made progress after one week.

When I try to give George "supervised interaction time" with the cat now, almost nothing breaks George's focus on the cat. He freezes like a statue and stares, and if you let your guard down, he'll lunge and bite.

We have relatively large rooms, and the cat doesn't mind being alone, so we usually lock him in one of the bedrooms with his litterbox, food and water during the day. George gets to stay with me. At night, we switch; George sleeps on the floor in our room, and the cat gets the run of the house then.

The few times no one is home, the cat definitely stays behind a closed door.


----------



## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

THANK YOU for fostering. We need more people as committed as you that's for sure!

The advice you were given above is great.

I don't really see anything in your post that I would necessarily see as very unsual for a dog who is confused, untrained and a naturally anxious dog. I once had an excellent article that I give out to new fosters that explains the natural curve of behaviour that rescues go through but when we stopped allowing non-SPCA materials to be handed out I lost track of where I got it from. Anyways, it shows the types of behaviours you might see at different points of fostering, especially with more intense dogs (I have one of those myself!).

Wearing a muzzle can be helpful in certain situations but remember that if a muzzle is not intended for use for extended periods. In fact, in some areas it is considered cruelty if done for more than a couple of hours at a time. 

Dogs with high prey drive really should not be housed with cats. However, sometimes dogs kept outside have just never learned to live with cats and can come around. Sometimes they're just not sure about the cat and conditioning can help. It must be really stressful for your cat either way. If this doesn't start improving soon I would move him to another foster home. 

Have you tried massage or a thundershirt? I would definitely do both with a dog like this.


----------



## Paul_S (Nov 10, 2012)

Megora said:


> Um... if the dog is stressed out of his mind and the mounting and frenetic and clingy behavior is how he is dealing with his uncertainty and anxiety... shaking cans is probably going to freak him out even more.
> 
> Best to be calm and train him to be calm.


Thank you! Duly noted!



Bentleysmom said:


> I couldn't disagree with this statement more. I think you're doing great so far and you will continue to do great. Mylissyk has given you some great advice. I've had many adult dogs and I believe you can teach them.
> Good luck to you, don't give up ♥


Thank you so much! We're doing the best we can! I strongly believe that no dog is a "lost cause."


----------



## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Paul_S said:


> When I try to give George "supervised interaction time" with the cat now, almost nothing breaks George's focus on the cat. He freezes like a statue and stares, and if you let your guard down, he'll lunge and bite.


Eek! I would definitely talk to the rescue and let them know that I can no longer foster the dog. If he can't be distracted it is a clear sign that he should not live with a cat. 

We did a foster-to-adopt with an Aussie and he was the same way with our cat. We had to give him back. Unfortunately my cat was so stressed (you wouldn't have know by his behaviour though) that his urinary tract blocked and we almost lost him. And the aussie was always on leash and never got to the cat. He found a great home without small animals.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Paul_S said:


> Like I suspected, it's not always sexual. We'll stay the course and try our best to dissuade and distract him when he does this.


Remember it's not going to be easy, but it's doable. Because a lot of the time it's an excitement "totally hyped up" thing, training them to settle down does the job. 




> I agree, it looks like he's had a tough life, but he's almost never alone now. I work from home, so we're always together. Nonetheless, he still _craves_ attention. Our last foster also hated being alone, but he was content laying at my feet and just being in the same room. George needs more active, as opposed to passive, attention.


My Jacks would be the same way, so I know exactly what you mean. He's needy. 



> That's exactly what we've been doing. We use a baby gate to keep them separate, but like I said, George wants to bite the cat -- it's not just roughhousing. I thought maybe he was frustrated because we weren't letting him get close enough to investigate the cat on his own terms, but no matter what I try, he still tries to bite the cat.


Keep him on leash around the cat and train him to "leave it". If he's still going after the cat after being whopped on the nose by the cat, then it's too dangerous for him to be loose around the cat. 




> I've suggested this to the rescue, but I was told they don't have any other foster families available. It's very possible that I'm misinterpreting him, but he doesn't seem anxious. He seems like a very happy dog, he's just got too much energy and a strong prey drive! Furthermore, I feel like perhaps I'm perhaps George's best bet -- I'm patient with him and he doesn't have to stay home alone while I'm at work.


Thanks for explaining. I understand about fosters being limited... though the rescues I know of will pull strings and do what they can if a dog isn't a good match for a foster home. Definitely if this dog has no other options, I wish you all the luck and I DO feel this is doable, but it's going to take a lot of patience and a little time for the guy to settle in. 

I was going to say that this dog may even have been an outside dog in his previous home (explains the heartworm). So he likely has never been taught any manners whatsoever. >.<


----------



## Paul_S (Nov 10, 2012)

jackie_hubert said:


> THANK YOU for fostering. We need more people as committed as you that's for sure!


Thank you! That's really kind of you! I recently lost my childhood dog (she was 17 years old, may she rest in peace), and my wife I and love Goldens, so we thought we would try to help out the local rescue before adopting.



jackie_hubert said:


> Wearing a muzzle can be helpful in certain situations but remember that if a muzzle is not intended for use for extended periods. In fact, in some areas it is considered cruelty if done for more than a couple of hours at a time.


I couldn't agree more! This was a last ditch effort to see if I could habituate George to the cat. I certainly never planned on letting him wear it for more than a few minutes at a time.



jackie_hubert said:


> Have you tried massage or a thundershirt? I would definitely do both with a dog like this.


No... I don't even know what those things are. I'll have to Google them!


----------



## Paul_S (Nov 10, 2012)

jackie_hubert said:


> Eek! I would definitely talk to the rescue and let them know that I can no longer foster the dog. If he can't be distracted it is a clear sign that he should not live with a cat.


The one thing that distracts him is one of his louder squeaky toys, otherwise he completely ignores everything but the cat.



jackie_hubert said:


> We did a foster-to-adopt with an Aussie and he was the same way with our cat. We had to give him back. Unfortunately my cat was so stressed (you wouldn't have know by his behaviour though) that his urinary tract blocked and we almost lost him. And the aussie was always on leash and never got to the cat. He found a great home without small animals.


Oh no! I certainly don't want that to happen! I wanted to try everything I could to get him used to cats, but it's becoming clear that that just might not happen.


----------



## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Have you tried clicker training?

You could try to teach a "whiplash turn": when the cat's not around teach him a reliable "look over here!" Squeak the toy right behind him when he's not looking. The second he turns his eyes to you/squeaky toy click and immediately feed a VERY high value treat (like dehydrated or cooked meat). Repeat lots and lots and lots. Slowly start doing it when he's MILDLY distracted. When he's really solid do it when he's looking at the cat. Be sure never to squeak it when he's not likely to turn immediately. 

A clicker will also make it easier to teach him other things you want to teach like all the basic commands.


----------



## Paul_S (Nov 10, 2012)

jackie_hubert said:


> Have you tried clicker training?
> 
> You could try to teach a "whiplash turn": when the cat's not around teach him a reliable "look over here!" Squeak the toy right behind him when he's not looking. The second he turns his eyes to you/squeaky toy click and immediately feed a VERY high value treat (like dehydrated or cooked meat). Repeat lots and lots and lots. Slowly start doing it when he's MILDLY distracted. When he's really solid do it when he's looking at the cat. Be sure never to squeak it when he's not likely to turn immediately.
> 
> A clicker will also make it easier to teach him other things you want to teach like all the basic commands.


Hmm... I've never tried that, but it sounds like a great idea. Thanks for the suggestion! I'll certainly give it a try.


----------



## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Bless your huge hearts for fostering, it is such an amazing thing to do. I have fostered and yes, they can be a bit of a challenge sometimes, and one of the biggest lessons I learned was patience and compassion. It takes time for them to settle in, it takes time for them to be comfortable with you and understand your expectations, some adjust easier and quicker than others. You haven't had him long, he is an adult dog with no skills, you can give him those skills and knowing what TO do, will go a long ways to bringing calm and confidence to George. 
Suggest trying some Rescue Remedy with him,and/or Dog Appeasing Pheromones (D.A.P.) collar or diffuser with him, both of these can help immensely with easing the anxiety and helping to calm, making learning easier for them.


----------



## Paul_S (Nov 10, 2012)

Charliethree said:


> Bless your huge hearts for fostering, it is such an amazing thing to do. I have fostered and yes, they can be a bit of a challenge sometimes, and one of the biggest lessons I learned was patience and compassion. It takes time for them to settle in, it takes time for them to be comfortable with you and understand your expectations, some adjust easier and quicker than others. You haven't had him long, he is an adult dog with no skills, you can give him those skills and knowing what TO do, will go a long ways to bringing calm and confidence to George.
> Suggest trying some Rescue Remedy with him,and/or Dog Appeasing Pheromones (D.A.P.) collar or diffuser with him, both of these can help immensely with easing the anxiety and helping to calm, making learning easier for them.


Thanks! I'm learning about a lot of new things I never knew existed!


After some more practice tonight, George seems to have finally mastered "down"! If we can just get him to "stay" and "leave it," I think we'll have made some real progress!


----------



## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Yeah!! for George! He is a smart puppy! It is amazing how fast they 'get it', once they figure out what you are trying to tell them.


----------



## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

If the dog has such a high prey drive towards the cat as you have stated, it is not safe for him to be around your indoor cat. Do not let the rescue guilt you into keeping him if it's not a fit and for me out of everything you listed--the risk to the cat is a deal breaker. I have fostered ~40 goldens and only 3 were returned to boarding due to their "I want to eat the cat" desire. Most certainly needed to learn manners around my cat who was very dog savvy, but those 3 meant to do harm.


----------



## Paul_S (Nov 10, 2012)

SheetsSM said:


> If the dog has such a high prey drive towards the cat as you have stated, it is not safe for him to be around your indoor cat. Do not let the rescue guilt you into keeping him if it's not a fit and for me out of everything you listed--the risk to the cat is a deal breaker. I have fostered ~40 goldens and only 3 were returned to boarding due to their "I want to eat the cat" desire. Most certainly needed to learn manners around my cat who was very dog savvy, but those 3 meant to do harm.


Thanks, I'll definitely bring this up with them again. Our cat is "dog savvy" too; he's lived with a dog nearly his whole life.

The Golden rescue in our area doesn't have a physical location. It's a group of organizers that work with foster families and other volunteers to rescue Goldens from the streets or the pound. George wouldn't have anywhere else to go if there aren't any other foster families available, but I can let them know that he would be better off in a different home when one does become available.


----------



## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Paul_S said:


> Thanks, I'll definitely bring this up with them again. Our cat is "dog savvy" too; he's lived with a dog nearly his whole life.
> 
> The Golden rescue in our area doesn't have a physical location. It's a group of organizers that work with foster families and other volunteers to rescue Goldens from the streets or the pound. George wouldn't have anywhere else to go if there aren't any other foster families available, but I can let them know that he would be better off in a different home when one does become available.


They may need to shuffle fosters or board him at a clinic or kennel until another foster home can open up. Based on his anxiety I realize a foster home would be best, but at the same time the rescue owes it to you not to make you put your own pets at risk.


----------



## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

I applaud your decision to foster but in light of the need to keep your cat safe I agree that this might not be the right situation for your household. I had planned to foster for a GR Rescue. The dog was assigned to me and I was going to pick him up from the kennel in a couple of days when I realized it would not be a good situation for my 18 year old cat. Not only does she not move that well but I had concern for the added stress on her failing health. It was difficult but I had to tell the rescue that I could not foster at this time.
Perhaps the rescue could trade your dog for one with a foster that doesn't have cats. 
Please monitor the situation closely and do not put your kitty at risk.


----------



## quilter (Sep 12, 2011)

I have one of the few dogs that was completed cured of his "frustration" behavior by neutering. Overnight. Given it supposedly takes a few weeks for the hormones to go away, I'm not sure why it stopped so quickly. But he was at it every night, and then stopped. The other issues you're working with are more important, so I might ignore this one for now and see if neutering fixes it.


----------



## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Paul_S said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I need some guidance, and I don't know where else to turn for help. I've been browsing the forums here for about a week, but things have gotten bad enough to prompt me to post.
> 
> ...



George sounds alot like my Buddy when I first rescued him. It does get better and Buddy is now proof positive. He is now a CGC and TDI (paperwork pending) dog. He did everything your George does plus he would escape the house and run away. Buddy went through months of professional training something I never had go do with any of my previous dogs but I had raised them from puppyhood. I would look into training classes- I think it helped me more than him because I would get so frustrated by him with something not working and they would give he helpful hints to get what I wanted but a different way.

While he thankfully did not have heartworm, Buddy was physically a mess he has gained 25-30 pounds since I got him- I stopped weighting him and just go by how he looks and rib feel. I neutered Buddy as soon as he was medically cleared since I could not keep him in the house since he would let himself out- He had no self control and it took months for him to learn it. He now knows he can go outside as much as he wants- Before I got him going outside even to pee was a treat! 

I don't think your George is 'sexually frustrated' as much as has no matters. I did not neuter my previous golden til he was 10 and he never humped a person, furniture, or other dog. Buddy who is neutered does hump other dogs after they hump him first. 

Buddy still mouths my cats but he is not doing it to harm them and they know that. My cats are used to a mouthy Golden since my previous one did the say thing to them. He has learned to not chase the kitties overall but the 3 yorkies do egg him on. Baby gates are great- Just elevate them 6 inches off the ground so your cat can easily get away from George. I still have them up in my house. My cats and dogs get along but I still give the cats their own dog free spaces- Litterbox, food, and beds. My cats decide when and if they want to come near the dogs. Buddy is not a fan of the cats, primarily Mika, hitting him on the nose- He has learned if kitty growls leave her the heck alone or you will have a sore nose. I did keep Buddy on a leash one at all times connected to me because of his poor behavior and not being housebroken when I got him. If he can't get 6 feet from you- He can't corner the cat.

Buddy would not just beg for food he would also steal it and counter surf several times a day when I rescued him. He still begs but on my terms only- with everything it took time. If I am making food he sits or lays 3 feet from me so I am not tripping over him. When I am eating he must lay down and wait quietly otherwise he gets nothing.

Buddy has mild separation anxiety now but it used to be severe. I changed my whole work schedule so that he was never alone for more than 1 hour at first. My parents and brother doggie sit for me when I go to work so I change my schedule to mirror their schedules. Buddy did not destroy actual things with his anxiety but he would rip his own skin off from licking, chewing, and scratching because he was upset.


You can't fix everything overnight. Pick one or 2 areas to really focus on. For 
Buddy I worked on 'training'- Sit, stay, down, etc.- Throughout the day instead of formal training type sessions. It kept us both from getting board and frustrated. Buddy is very smart! And it seems like George might be the same way.

Food and praise was the only thing that worked for Buddy at first since he did not know what play or toys was. Buddy lead a totally different life before I rescued him and what he has not and I imagine the same is true for George.
Buddy came from a trailer with 2 other male unneutered dogs (lab and pit bull/Boston terrier mix) where he was left for at least 16 hours/day plus, not housebroken, had to find his own food in the house or he would bot eat that day, his owner was an alcoholic so he probably did hit him even though he denied it but Buddy was very head shy and neck sensitive when I got him. If my brother who Buddy loves makes a quick motion over his head he will still cringe and go to hide- My brother under penalty of his own death would never hit any of my dogs!


----------



## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...um/107183-help-trying-rescue-golden-long.html. This is Buddy's thread from when I first got him- I have not updated it since he is an official member of the family now.

As a side not when I got Buddy I was fostering 2 kittens/6 month old cats in addition to having 2 cats of my own and 4 yorkies. Buddy could have seriously injured or killed any of them. I have on top of him at all times it seemed! I stopped cat fostering after I got Buddy and the rescue had to take the kittens back. If he hurt one my personal furbutts I would have dealt with it but he injured a rescued I don't know what I would have done!


----------



## Paul_S (Nov 10, 2012)

Thank you for your thoughtful response!



MikaTallulah said:


> I don't think your George is 'sexually frustrated' as much as has no matters. I did not neuter my previous golden til he was 10 and he never humped a person, furniture, or other dog. Buddy who is neutered does hump other dogs after they hump him first.


I agree, and he seems to have settled down. I haven't caught him doing it in a while, but my wife says he did earlier today. He didn't get his usual exercise, and he was alone for an extended period for the first time (it was a long day... I had to help a friend who had her dog euthanized this morning), so I think that explains it. Overall, he's been much better lately.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm culpable for some of my frustration. I haven't trained a dog from the ground up in almost 15 years. My pet dog, and our last foster, responded to "yelling" (by which I mean admonishment using a deep tone of voice) in addition to praise; George simply doesn't. Once I wrapped my head around that, and realized the real power of positive reinforcement, getting him to behave the way I want was much easier.



MikaTallulah said:


> Buddy still mouths my cats but he is not doing it to harm them and they know that. My cats are used to a mouthy Golden since my previous one did the say thing to them. He has learned to not chase the kitties overall but the 3 yorkies do egg him on. Baby gates are great- Just elevate them 6 inches off the ground so your cat can easily get away from George. I still have them up in my house. My cats and dogs get along but I still give the cats their own dog free spaces- Litterbox, food, and beds. My cats decide when and if they want to come near the dogs. Buddy is not a fan of the cats, primarily Mika, hitting him on the nose- He has learned if kitty growls leave her the heck alone or you will have a sore nose. I did keep Buddy on a leash one at all times connected to me because of his poor behavior and not being housebroken when I got him. If he can't get 6 feet from you- He can't corner the cat.
> 
> Buddy would not just beg for food he would also steal it and counter surf several times a day when I rescued him. He still begs but on my terms only- with everything it took time. If I am making food he sits or lays 3 feet from me so I am not tripping over him. When I am eating he must lay down and wait quietly otherwise he gets nothing.


Unfortunately the two areas in which George really needs improvement are begging for food and aggression toward the cat. We have set up dog-free zones using baby gates, but our cat is older and he knows that running is the worst thing he can do to end a chase. Consequently, escaping to one of the dog-free zones never works out.

Now that George has gotten a better grasp of the basic commands, I'm going to try more positive reinforcement techniques during his interactions with the cat. I still think he, and certainly the cat, would ultimately be happier if George found a new foster home, but I'll do all that I can in the meantime.



MikaTallulah said:


> Buddy has mild separation anxiety now but it used to be severe. I changed my whole work schedule so that he was never alone for more than 1 hour at first. My parents and brother doggie sit for me when I go to work so I change my schedule to mirror their schedules. Buddy did not destroy actual things with his anxiety but he would rip his own skin off from licking, chewing, and scratching because he was upset.


That's rough. I know George hates being alone, but fortunately he isn't destructive to the house and I don't think he barks or is otherwise disruptive -- my neighbors haven't complained, at least.



MikaTallulah said:


> You can't fix everything overnight. Pick one or 2 areas to really focus on. For
> Buddy I worked on 'training'- Sit, stay, down, etc.- Throughout the day instead of formal training type sessions. It kept us both from getting board and frustrated. Buddy is very smart! And it seems like George might be the same way.


Indeed, George is smart. As I'm learning, it's all about speaking his language. He's quick to learn and eager to please, I just have to show him what I want in a way he understands.



MikaTallulah said:


> Food and praise was the only thing that worked for Buddy at first since he did not know what play or toys was. Buddy lead a totally different life before I rescued him and what he has not and I imagine the same is true for George.
> Buddy came from a trailer with 2 other male unneutered dogs (lab and pit bull/Boston terrier mix) where he was left for at least 16 hours/day plus, not housebroken, had to find his own food in the house or he would bot eat that day, his owner was an alcoholic so he probably did hit him even though he denied it but Buddy was very head shy and neck sensitive when I got him. If my brother who Buddy loves makes a quick motion over his head he will still cringe and go to hide- My brother under penalty of his own death would never hit any of my dogs!


That's absolutely terrible. I have a zero tolerance attitude toward animal cruelty and neglect. Why even bother getting a dog if he or she will be alone all the time? I'm so happy Buddy is in your care now.

George seems pretty fearless. He pulls hard on the leash (we're working on that), and he's not scared of me, the cat, the vacuum, etc. I definitely think he was neglected, but I don't think he was abused. If he was, he got over it pretty quickly.


----------



## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

How is George doing today?


----------



## Paul_S (Nov 10, 2012)

MikaTallulah said:


> How is George doing today?


He had an accident on the carpet, but I think that was because of yesterday. Otherwise, so far so good.


----------



## Paul_S (Nov 10, 2012)

Hi everyone,

Just a quick status update... George has made huge progress with the cat. He's far less aggressive than I originally thought. My wife panicked when George first lunged after the cat, so we kept them separated ever since. Consequently, I think the cat became the "forbidden fruit" -- much more intriguing to George.

We've been carefully giving the cat and George more time together lately. George still lunges sometimes, but he hasn't bitten the cat. George has one of those big dopey faces, and he's a slobberer, so sometimes the cat ends up with slobber on him after they interact. I initially thought George was biting him, but I no longer thing that's true. He does mouth the cat sometimes, but only with that soft Golden "bite." The cat always defends himself if George gets too close, but George doesn't seem to care.

Most significantly, I've been able to break George's focus on the cat. I've been able to call George away (followed by praise and treats), and I've even gotten him to lay down and stop bothering the cat.

Of course, I still don't leave them alone together. I also have to limit the total amount of time they spend together so as not to put too much stress on the kitty. 

Overall, things are going well! George had a ball playing at the dog park the other day. I take him there daily, but we're usually alone. Yesterday he got to run and frolic with three other dogs -- he was in heaven!


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Wonderful update! Good boy George.


----------



## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

What a great update!


----------



## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

How wonderful!


----------



## Paul_S (Nov 10, 2012)

Hi everyone,

Another update on George! George had a *great* Thanksgiving. My family had Thanksgiving dinner with a friend who lives about an hour and a half away. My friend lives alone, so I drove up the day before Thanksgiving to help her cook, etc., and I took George with me. I was a little nervous because he hasn't completely broken his habit of begging at the table, and also because my friend has a senior chocolate lab. I was worrying for nothing, though, because George was absolutely perfect!

He was so relaxed the whole time! On Thanksgiving day, he greeted everyone as they arrived, but he didn't jump or pester them. He laid next to my chair during dinner and didn't beg even once.

After dinner, I heard my friend ask George if he wanted a piece of turkey. I replied for him "no!" Ordinarily I'm not so strict, but I haven't given George any people food since trying to break him of his begging habit. Nonetheless, she gave her dog some turkey, and dropped a bit on the dog's head. I'm a bit miffed about what happened next. George went to take the turkey that fell on the lab's head, but the lab thought he was attacking her, so it escalated and they got into a little tussle. It wasn't serious, just some barking, no bloodshed, but poor George got blamed until I stood up for him! 

George was a real trooper that day. We stopped by two other family members' houses on the way home, and he continued to do great! There were two shih-tzus and about ten people at the first house, and there were two other shih-tzus, a lab mix, about eight adults and four kids at the second house. My wife and I were worried about how George would interact with the shih-tzus and the kids, given how he was with our cat at first, but he was as gentle as could be. I was very proud of him!

Besides Thanksgiving, George has been settling in well here. He's still fascinated by the cat, but he hasn't "mouthed" him in a while. Sometimes he'll get too close, and the cat will let him know with a bop on the nose, but usually George loses interest on his own. I've left them home alone a number of times now, without even thinking about it at first.

After a week or so of keeping them separate, I think the key was to let them have time together to become familiar with one another. When we first got the cat, we already had a dog, and it took them about two weeks to become comfortable with one another. Even though the cat isn't 100% comfortable with George now, I think my wife and I initially overreacted, and it just took George a little longer to settle in.

Thanks everyone for your advice and encouragement! Now to tackle our next problem: George has a beautiful coat, but he's been starting to develop a couple of hot spots! I'm waiting to hear back from the rescue to see if I can take him to see his vet!


----------



## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

What a great update! When will he be ready for adoption?


----------



## Paul_S (Nov 10, 2012)

jackie_hubert said:


> What a great update! When will he be ready for adoption?


He gets his first heartworm treatment the day after Christmas, and the rescue wants to wait until then to see how he reacts to the treatment. Wish him luck! I know the injection can be dangerous sometimes (though I suppose having heartworms is more dangerous), and my wife and I are getting really attached to George, so we're a little worried!

By the way, here's a picture of George smiling!


----------



## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

So happy! Oh, I've always wanted to add a red one to family. lol


----------



## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

jackie_hubert said:


> Have you tried clicker training?
> 
> You could try to teach a "whiplash turn": when the cat's not around teach him a reliable "look over here!" Squeak the toy right behind him when he's not looking. The second he turns his eyes to you/squeaky toy click and immediately feed a VERY high value treat (like dehydrated or cooked meat). Repeat lots and lots and lots. Slowly start doing it when he's MILDLY distracted. When he's really solid do it when he's looking at the cat. Be sure never to squeak it when he's not likely to turn immediately.
> 
> A clicker will also make it easier to teach him other things you want to teach like all the basic commands.


I think this is terrific advice. I have found the clicker to be a terrific tool. Just learn how to use it. I would also like to recommend a book: WHEN PIGS FLY. The author uses clicker training for difficult dogs. I have now adapted her techniques and I am highly successful with my "pigs fly" dog.

Also, don't expect to get rid of the prey drive. You may be able to train other behavioral responses but the prey drive will still be there. Also, beware of something that I think is called "instinctive drift". It explains why lion tamers sometimes get bit.


----------



## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Bless your heart for hanging in there and giving George a chance and the foster home he so deserved. I have fostered (and failed with two) a few dogs that gave me 'pause' to think whether it was such a good idea or not, but in the end with a little time, patience, love and training- they settled in and it all worked out. As tough as it is for us sometimes, it is tough on the dogs to go from having nothing (what they know) and all of a sudden their world changes and they have it all. A bit mind boggling even for a dog.
Good to hear George was such a good boy for you, it really makes you proud - doesn't it? Hope things continue to go well, and George does well with his heartworm treatment. 
Best of luck to you all.


----------



## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Paul_S said:


> He gets his first heartworm treatment the day after Christmas, and the rescue wants to wait until then to see how he reacts to the treatment. Wish him luck! I know the injection can be dangerous sometimes (though I suppose having heartworms is more dangerous), and my wife and I are getting really attached to George, so we're a little worried!
> 
> By the way, here's a picture of George smiling!


George is beautiful! I can see why you and your wife are getting attached to him, he sounds wonderful and has made such great progress.

I did a foster to Adopt of my girl through a GR Rescue while she was treated for Stage 3 HW. She started her treatment in Jan. received her last one in May, tested negative, cleared medically, and I officially adopted her. 

I had Never dealt with a HW positive dog before, all my dogs had always been on HW prevention. I was totally clueless about HW, the treatment, etc. I read as much info as I could find about HW, the treatment methods, etc. Worked very closely with my Vet Clinic and my GR Rescue.
My girl came through the treatments without any problems. 

Wishing you the best with George and his treatments.


----------



## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

George is beautiful and the updates of his progress are great to hear. You've gotten mostly great advice on this forum from people who have been through similar situations. So glad you stuck with George and are getting favorable results. One day in the near future you're gonna look at George and know that it was all worth it.
Thank you for rescuing him.


----------



## Solas Goldens (Nov 10, 2007)

Hi...... you have gotten a lot go good advice, I'm just wondering why George hasn't been neutered yet. Usually that is the first thing a rescue will do. It won't correct behavioral issues but a decrease in hormones will definitely help. 
I just neutered my 21/2 year old golden, it has made ahuge difference in his behavior, and he is just happier and more relaxed.


----------



## Paul_S (Nov 10, 2012)

gdgli said:


> Also, don't expect to get rid of the prey drive. You may be able to train other behavioral responses but the prey drive will still be there. Also, beware of something that I think is called "instinctive drift". It explains why lion tamers sometimes get bit.


I know, ironically, just after I posted the last update he snapped at our cat. I haven't seen him do that in a long time. It also took him a little longer than usual to lose interest and settle down.



Charliethree said:


> Good to hear George was such a good boy for you, it really makes you proud - doesn't it?


Yes! I'm very proud of him!



CAROLINA MOM said:


> Wishing you the best with George and his treatments.


Thank you! I've never dealt with a dog with HW either. I have read about it, though, and I'm going to get a chance to speak with George's vet due to his scratching/biting and itching. I think that will be a good opportunity to ask what I can do to make the HW treatment easier on him.



Solas Goldens said:


> I'm just wondering why George hasn't been neutered yet. Usually that is the first thing a rescue will do. It won't correct behavioral issues but a decrease in hormones will definitely help.
> I just neutered my 21/2 year old golden, it has made ahuge difference in his behavior, and he is just happier and more relaxed.


I agree that George _needs_ to be neutered, and I already asked twice about getting it done sooner rather than later. Apparently his vet would strongly prefer to neuter him after the heartworm treatments are done. I read a lot about neutering a dog with heartworms, and there seems to be a 50/50 split in opinions; some vets do it before the HW treatments, others do it after. I was told George has a particularly bad case of HW, so that might have something to do with it.


----------



## Merlins mom (Jun 20, 2007)

I can't give you any advice about the other behaviors, but the fact that he wants to bite your cat gives me pause. I have a very dog savvy cat, but I have had two fosters that had to find other foster homes because they were way too aggressive with my cat. I'm all for fostering and rescuing (I do both), but not at the cost of my own animals welfare. I would talk to the rescue again and stress to them that this dog needs a cat free foster home. It's their responsibility to help with that.

I have a friend who fostered a dog that killed her cat. And she is a very responsible and knowledgeable foster home. It can happen. 

I hope everything works out for you and for him!


----------



## Merlins mom (Jun 20, 2007)

should have read more before I posted! Glad to hear that George is making progress. Kudos to you for working with him so much. It's nice that you are seeing results!!



Paul_S said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Just a quick status update... George has made huge progress with the cat. He's far less aggressive than I originally thought. My wife panicked when George first lunged after the cat, so we kept them separated ever since. Consequently, I think the cat became the "forbidden fruit" -- much more intriguing to George.
> 
> ...


----------



## Paul_S (Nov 10, 2012)

Merlins mom said:


> should have read more before I posted! Glad to hear that George is making progress. Kudos to you for working with him so much. It's nice that you are seeing results!!


Thanks! I definitely had that terrible thought in the back of my mind (turning my back for a second, then finding a seriously injured kitty)... fortunately I think George is much more interested in playing than hurting. He sometimes sees the cat as a toy, and that could've been a problem considering George weighs 73 lbs. and the cat weighs 12 lbs., but he has settled down considerably.

In unrelated news, George visited the vet today! The poor boy, he has to wear a cone around his neck for a few days. The vet thinks he has dermatitis caused by flea bites, even though she couldn't find any fleas on him. They had to shave his hot spots, they gave him an injection of prednisone, and they gave me more flea medicine, special shampoo, cream to rub on his hot spots, and more pills to add to his diet! She also gave me medication to treat a small ear infection she found. The next two weeks are going to be a bit more work, but I'm glad we caught these things before they got any worse.


----------

