# Review of �New England Goldens� golden retriever breeder (TERRIBLE experience)



## LuvGoldies75

*Review of “New England Goldens” golden retriever breeder (TERRIBLE experience)*

This is a review of “New England Goldens” which is also listed as “Windham Meadow View Golden Retrievers” and “Pup Star Photography” and “Windham Meadow View Boxers” located in Windham, NH. 

I was searching for a local breeder and found New England Goldens but their price was considerably higher than most other breeders. He is charging $2400 a pup and puts the price right on their pictures like they’re an appliance or something! Other breeders in the area charge $1700 on average. So I decided to email them to politely ask WHY the price is so high and NOT to haggle, considering it may have been a complicated birth with a c-section or because a champion pedigree sire was arranged, etc:


> Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 4:18 PM
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I was browsing your website and noticed you still had three female puppies available as of 10/13. I am writing to ask if any of the three are still available. My family and I are interested. I would have to ask perhaps why the puppies cost as much as they do, I am just wondering if perhaps you could itemize some of your own costs to me so I may understand the price better. If you would like to contact me, I can be reached at <number removed>.
> 
> Thanks,
> <my name>


To which Craig responded with:


> Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 9:20 AM
> 
> Good morning <my name>,
> 
> What is this, Best Buy?
> 
> Lol.
> 
> Craig


He then sent another condescending email:


> Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 9:40 AM
> 
> 
> Itemization:
> 
> • AKC Registered
> • OFA Hip joint certified parents
> • Champion lines
> • Trained
> • Calmest around
> • Socialized
> • Available
> • What people will pay
> • The work involved to bring these pups to you
> • Quality
> • Looks
> • Genetic guarantees
> • Mercedes Vs Chevy
> • Harvard Vs UMass


Followed by a third:


> Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 9:53 AM
> 
> 
> Anyway, those three females left last weekend. They are gone. They go fast. Site not updated yet to reflect the change in availability. We have another bunch ready this weekend.


Naturally I was offended by such a reply because every other breeder I have contacted was more than happy to provide this information. I simply wanted to get to know them as a breeder and gauge what kind of people they are. Nevertheless I was extremely put off and responded as so:


> Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 10:07 AM
> 
> Hi Craig,
> 
> The question I asked was perfectly reasonable and something other breeders have gladly provided me. As a breeder you must be sure your clients are good people; as a client I have to make sure the breeders are good people. Judging by your lack of professional tact and condescending nature, I do not believe you love your dogs as much as you say you do. Had you corresponded more professionally I would have been willing to spend whatever the price was; money is not an issue of mine, but the quality of the person breeding and raising the dog is. If you wish to handle this like an adult, drop the acronyms, and the condescending attitude then I would gladly like to work with you. Otherwise please do not contact me ever again.
> 
> Best regards,
> <my name>


I don’t believe my question was unreasonable and I made to sure to ask it in a civil manner. I also don’t think I was being rude, unless I’m missing something here. If I was rude then I apologize, but I certainly didn’t need such a rude response.

Breeders have lots of expenses which they must endure and I simply wanted to know how these expenses are divided. Some may spend more money at the vet, some may purchase organic food, some may make raw food, and so on. It’s an excellent and easy way to gauge the history of the pups.

If I was asked the same question I wouldn’t be offended at all, assuming they were civil about it. Some people may be sensitive and a simple “no thank you, that’s personal” would have sufficed, or just in general a civil reply explaining why asking something like that is rude because I honestly had no idea!

With his final reply he clearly had no intent of handling this like an adult:


> Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 10:57 AM
> 
> 
> We don't want people that haggle on price. My condescending nature was designed to make you go away. Your worthless to my pups. Get lost.


There was absolutely no intent of haggling in my original email. Asking someone WHY a price is what it is, is NOT the same as asking to haggle on it. He then sent ANOTHER, unwarranted email:


> Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 10:59 AM
> 
> creep



My husband then called him to make it clear never to contact us again. The first call Craig answered and all he said was *“this is Craig.”* My husband then said something along the lines of *“I thought I was very clear not to contact us ever again if you can’t handle the situation like an adult”* which is admittedly a little aggressive but my hubby can be a bit overprotective. Craig immediately hung up, so my husband called back and the first thing Craig says is *”do not contact me again either”* which my husband replied *“Really? You’re the one who can’t act like an adult.”* which Craig responded with *”Get out of here!”* and hung up.

I understand it’s everyone’s right to be rude if they want to and choose their customers as they please, but this is no way to gain the confidence of customers. I honestly had no idea my request for an itemized breakdown of the price was something rude to ask. Personally if I was a breeder I would be thrilled that a potential client was doing their research and making sure the breeder does everything properly, considering how many backyard breeders there are. 

My concern with Craig’s attitude is that he simply sees these dogs as a commodity with how sensitive he is when their price is questioned. It’s my understanding that if you are a respectable breeder who prides themselves in the pedigree of their dogs, then you’d be more than happy to gloat a little bit and prove how you’re the “best” around. There’s nothing wrong with charging a respectful amount for your pups, but any true Golden lover would never put prioritize the price of their pups over good owners and a good home. I’ve always been of the opinion that a good breeder does not do it for the money but for the love of the dogs. Obviously a price must be put on each pup to cover any expenses (vet bills, food, toys, etc) and it isn’t wrong to pocket some of it considering it is an endeavor raising them, but running this purely for profit is a HUGE red flag.



In short: I had a terrible experience and would never recommend this breeder to anyone. For those who are skeptical, I suggest calling and asking the same thing I did. I’m sure he will have something colorful to say to you as well.


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## Alaska7133

You aren't going to like what I have to say. I have issues with both the breeder and your approach. 

1. I have no idea what you expect to see in an itemized cost of a puppy or dog. Please clarify. I have dogs and I can't imagine how I could possibly answer your request for an itemized cost of a puppy. So I'm not surprised at the breeder's response.

2. The breeder has a huge lack of information on the actual AKC names of the dogs he owns. He uses a combination of call names and full registration names which makes it hard to figure out exactly which dogs are being bred to which dogs. I think that is intentional. 

3. I would not use this breeder for his complete lack of clear and definitive information about his dogs. Without clear information, you don't know if any of the dogs have clearances or what exactly their pedigrees are. The breeder also doesn't bother to show or do anything but breed dogs. By the way Sir Benson Jr actually has OFA excellent hips.

4. The other information you list from websites like: D&B and findthebest are meaningless from a business standpoint. I don't know why you bothered to include them. 

Personally I think you might want to get a stuffed animal. You can cost that out nicely if you spent time with the manufacturer. Sorry you aren't getting what you want, I'm not sure if anyone can give you that information. Even if a breeder had it, I doubt they would share it with you.


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## Katduf

Whoa, that's a tad harsh!!


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## Kmullen

Itemized list?? Lol oh geez!!


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## Cookie's Mom

Sounds like you spoke to a greeder and not a breeder. From my experience, champion bloodlines and c-section births do not drive up the puppy fee. My Oatmeal had champion parents and was born via c-section. The breeder still only charged $1800, the going rate for all puppies coming from her regardless if the parents were finished or not. I'm in MA too.


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## Wendi

I think if this Breeder felt that what the OP asked was out of line there is a lot of ways to tell them or to just simply ignore the email, rather then send emails being so ridiculous.


This may be the stud .. Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

and may be the bitch .. Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

IF these are the dogs in question, this Breeder only seems to do hips. Though that is all that is listed on the website too.


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## 2tired

LuvGoldies75 said:


> I don’t believe my question was unreasonable and I made to sure to ask it in a civil manner. I also don’t think I was being rude, unless I’m missing something here. If I was rude then I apologize, but I certainly didn’t need such a rude response.
> 
> Breeders have lots of expenses which they must endure and I simply wanted to know how these expenses are divided. Some may spend more money at the vet, some may purchase organic food, some may make raw food, and so on. It’s an excellent and easy way to gauge the history of the pups.


I didn't think the OP was out of line. I certainly understood her question, although I can see that another person reading it may not be. She was merely questioning why his prices were so much more, and if there was something that the breeder was doing that made the price of his pups more than most breeders. Cut some slack.

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## Brave

To my knowledge, a breeder wouldn't be able to produce an itemized list of what goes into a puppy price. 

I seem to recall reading a thread on the forum that tried to break down what breeders spend on any given litter. I thought it was called, "how much does that puppy in the window cost?" But I may be confusing that with another dog care/cost post. 

I'll try to hunt it up when I get to a computer since my quick app search didn't get me what I was looking for exactly. Perhaps someone here knows what thread, to which I refer and can help me find the link.


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## rob1

The guy comes across as a massive jerk and I'd have just blocked him after his first response. Life is too short to waste time screwing around with unpleasant people.

Now, asking for an itemized list of the costs does sound slightly odd to me, but I think the gist is totally reasonable. The guy's charging 700 bucks over the average. I'd want to know why as well. I might just have phrased it a bit differently. 

But- part of finding the puppy that's right for you is finding a breeder whose style fits yours. And if someone is going to take your questions the wrong way, they're probably not going to be a good fit for what you're looking for anyway.

Good luck with your search - the right pup is out there and finding them will make all the hassle of searching worthwhile.


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## afire007

Alaska7133 said:


> You aren't going to like what I have to say. I have issues with both the breeder and your approach.


Even with the OP's approach nothing really warranted that kind of response from the breeder. This guy does deserve having his 'kennel' red flagged here on this website so other people can find out and realize how terrible his attitude is. Everything else on top of that is more icing to the cake for why prospective puppy owners should stay away from this guy. 

I do believe it is perfectly appropriate for any prospective puppy owner to ALWAYS question the price of a breeders pups. This gives you a huge amount of insight into the reasoning and thought process behind a breeder. Having interviewed well over dozens of breeders within the NJ area, many of them always falsely advertise a dogs credentials (or make over exaggerated claims) in order to up sell the puppy price which you end up finding out about via the pedigree even those listed in the GRCA puppy referral list (Pennylane and Jansun goldens are the exception along with several others, they are great breeders). 

The best advice I can give anyone wanting to adopt a puppy, is that when you adopt a puppy you are not just getting that puppy, you are entering into a relationship (contract) with the breeder. If you cannot question the breeder on anything relating to the puppy you are adopting, then there is no trust which is a huge red flag. I normally always ask in a polite manner when an average breeder with no direct champion bloodline asks for $2000 for their pups in NJ, and I always use the competition as leverage.

You slowly begin to realize in NJ, that the only reason why people are charging $2000 dollars for a pet quality GR in NJ is because
A.) They are able to get away with it with people who do not do research
B.) They are falsely advertising their dogs.
C.) They have the reputation (Which in my opinion is acceptable)

I mean for gods sake Cynanzar charges $2000 and frankly I think the majority of this forum would vomit from people even thinking about adopting pups from that place.


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## cgriffin

'Always question the price of a pup' seriously? I guess there would be a lot of people not getting a pup, LOL and I would not blame the reputable breeders for it.


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## afire007

cgriffin said:


> 'Always question the price of a pup' seriously? I guess there would be a lot of people not getting a pup, LOL and I would not blame the reputable breeders for it.


Dont get me wrong, I am not blaming reputable breeders for this hence why I mentioned there are exceptions to it. But there is nothing wrong with questioning the price that a breeder has put on a pup. I don't understand why people on this forum stigmatize people that question this as if they think all people who do this are simply looking at the GR as a commodity when we are not.


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## Tennyson

When I was researching breeders to find Deaglan I never even once inquired about the cost of a pup. I was focused on clearances and the breeder's operation.


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## afire007

Tennyson said:


> When I was researching breeders to find Deaglan I never even once inquired about the cost of a pup. I was focused on clearances and the breeder's operation.


So was I, in fact the last question I would always ask is about the price at the very end once everything checked out. I would ALWAYS visit the breeders location to check it out. This doesn't mean I love GR's any less than the next person. This question was used as a means to find out the thought process and reasoning behind a breeder.


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## Cookie's Mom

In my opinion, I will not question a breeder who has proven themselves and do all health clearances on why they price their puppies the way they do. If their puppy fee is in the range for the area, I just think I'm paying for good hips, elbows, hearts, eyes, and temperament.


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## Tennyson

afire007 said:


> So was I, in fact the last question I would always ask is about the price at the very end once everything checked out. I would ALWAYS visit the breeders location to check it out. This doesn't mean I love GR's any less than the next person. This question was used as a means to find out the thought process and reasoning behind a breeder.


You lost me. Thought process? Reasoning behind a breeder?


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## afire007

Tennyson said:


> You lost me. Thought process? Reasoning behind a breeder?


Whenever you ask a question like this, some breeders will normally make claims, sometimes even false claims as to why the price of the puppy is 2000 or better yet why they are better than another breeder and in rare circumstances become defensive if they feel insecure.

The purpose isn't to haggle or even reduce the price for that matter if you are interviewing a reputable breeder, its to figure out how trust worthy the breeder is. Reputable breeders do not buckle under this question as their reputation and their knowledge speaks for itself. Neither is it anymore personal than the questions a reputable breeder may ask you in person when they interview you.



Cookie's Mom said:


> In my opinion, I will not question a breeder who has proven themselves and do all health clearances on why they price their puppies the way they do. If their puppy fee is in the range for the area, I just think I'm paying for good hips, elbows, hearts, eyes, and temperament.


I can completely sympathize with this opinion, and I know many others will agree with you. But to me, I am not just about to get a best friend for life that is in good health, I am also signing a contractual agreement (relationship) with a breeder and this means a lot to me as it does with many other breeders I have interviewed. No matter a breeders reputation they are not above being questioned on anything in the contract that they present to me, the price being one of these factors reguardless of their reputation.

The thing is, you are not just paying for a healthy dog, you are also paying for that breeders reputation which can be evaluated in the contract and by interviewing them and by doing research on them.


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## Kmullen

This would be like asking a buyer to give me their "itemized" account to make sure they could afford a puppy to take care of...

I am not sure what I would say if someone asked me for an itemized statement of why my puppies are x amount of money! Lol! Honestly, I feel my puppies are worth much more than I charge, but would never charge that much! . 

Another thing people lie!! If one does their research on the breeder, previous puppies, clearances, and such.., there would be no reason to question the price of a puppy!!


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## Tennyson

afire007 said:


> Whenever you ask a question like this, some breeders will normally make claims, sometimes even false claims as to why the price of the puppy is 2000 or better yet why they are better than another breeder and in rare circumstances become defensive if they feel insecure.
> 
> The purpose isn't to haggle or even reduce the price for that matter if you are interviewing a reputable breeder, its to figure out how trust worthy the breeder is. Reputable breeders do not buckle under this question as their reputation and their knowledge speaks for itself. Neither is it anymore personal than the questions a reputable breeder may ask you in person when they interview you.
> This is your post from the NJ Breeder thread.
> 
> 
> Seems like a great place, and they have at least some clearances, id still verify all clearances up front. If you can wait id still recommend pennylane and jansuns goldens. They were great to talk to, cared for their dogs and have a great reputation and they have up to date medical information on all their dogs. The problem in New jersey is that it appears a large number of the breeders are just colluding their prices and over inflating them for pet quality pups. The asking price has practically inflated to $2000 which is slightly ridiculous and only in rare circumstances actually warranted. Most breeders in NJ rarely update their vet checks, or won't upload them to the OFA website because they have to pay $10 to do so, or simply ask for crazy demands (IE pay 2000 dollars in cash, resulting in no record of transaction/tax write off) to the point were it is slightly ridiculous.
> 
> 
> I can completely sympathize with this opinion, and I know many others will agree with you. But to me, I am not just about to get a best friend for life that is in good health, I am also signing a contractual agreement (relationship) with a breeder and this means a lot to me as it does with many other breeders I have interviewed. No matter a breeders reputation they are not above being questioned on anything in the contract that they present to me, the price being one of these factors reguardless of their reputation.
> 
> The thing is, you are not just paying for a healthy dog, you are also paying for that breeders reputation which can be evaluated in the contract and by interviewing them and by doing research on them.


You're contradicting yourself.


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## afire007

kfayard said:


> This would be like asking a buyer to give me their "itemized" account to make sure they could afford a puppy to take care of...
> 
> I am not sure what I would say if someone asked me for an itemized statement of why my puppies are x amount of money! Lol! Honestly, I feel my puppies are worth much more than I charge, but would never charge that much! .
> 
> Another thing people lie!! If one does their research on the breeder, previous puppies, clearances, and such.., there would be no reason to question the price of a puppy!!


I can agree with this, asking for an itemized account for the puppy was perhaps the incorrect question to ask from the OP. Buyer should have questioned the breeders reputation rather than the actual puppy. The health of a puppy can be researched in other ways along with its pedigree. 

I still think the price question though is important just to find out how trustworthy the breeder is and how confident they are with their pups but may be unnecessary if the asking price is the average in the area. This wasnt the case in OP's scenario though. 



Tennyson said:


> You're contradicting yourself.


How so? Because I evaluate a breeders reputation by asking why they priced their puppy at 2000 (Which is one way I evaluate their reputation which is essentially their trustworthyness)? Which frankly is something we all do on this forum in many different ways....


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## Wendi

Tennyson said:


> When I was researching breeders to find Deaglan I never even once inquired about the cost of a pup. I was focused on clearances and the breeder's operation.


If you had found this same breeder and the price for Deaglan would have being $10K or $20K you would have just given them their asking price?


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## Tennyson

Wendi said:


> If you had found this same breeder and the price for Deaglan would have being $10K or $20K you would have just given them their asking price?


A more reasonable sample would be $1500 or $3000. 
And no I wouldn't question the amount.


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## afire007

Tennyson said:


> A more reasonable sample would be $1500 or $3000.
> And no I wouldn't question the amount.


Then we have to agree to disagree. But I can respect your opinion. And to be frank I think we both agree that we care primarily about the health of the dog first and foremost and love GR's.


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## Cookie's Mom

afire007 said:


> I can completely sympathize with this opinion, and I know many others will agree with you. But to me, I am not just about to get a best friend for life that is in good health, I am also signing a contractual agreement (relationship) with a breeder and this means a lot to me as it does with many other breeders I have interviewed. No matter a breeders reputation they are not above being questioned on anything in the contract that they present to me, the price being one of these factors reguardless of their reputation.
> 
> The thing is, you are not just paying for a healthy dog, you are also paying for that breeders reputation which can be evaluated in the contract and by interviewing them and by doing research on them.


I guess I'm just the type of person to listen to my gut and trust what someone is representing when I've done all the proper research on them and it checks out. 

I think I will only ask about price if someone who is a reputable breeder is asking for a fee that is much higher than anyone else in the area.


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## Kmullen

It is like going to buy a car and asking the manufacturer why they are charging what they are? One would just research and research to figure out what they like best.

To me, it is insulting for someone to ask why do I charge x amount of money? IMO the buyer has not researched at all. I don't mind at all answering questions as far as health related questions or what kind of socialization do you do? Or can you tell me more specifically about your breeding program? Or how do you socialize your puppies? Do you offer a guarantee? Do you have any references?

These are specific questions that most reputable breeders will easily answer, but the question "why do you charge what you do?" Is just insulting! Lol

Again, JMHO.


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## afire007

kfayard said:


> It is like going to buy a car and asking the manufacturer why they are charging what they are? One would just research and research to figure out what they like best.
> 
> To me, it is insulting for someone to ask why do I charge x amount of money? IMO the buyer has not researched at all. I don't mind at all answering questions as far as health related questions or what kind of socialization do you do? Or can you tell me more specifically about your breeding program? Or how do you socialize your puppies? Do you offer a guarantee? Do you have any references?
> 
> These are specific questions that most reputable breeders will easily answer, but the question "why do you charge what you do?" Is just insulting! Lol
> 
> Again, JMHO.


Well to be fair thats not exactly how I ask it as so far only one breeder has been hostile about it, and if there are other reputable breeders that are charging less and they charge higher it is an appropriate question to bring up. And finally I do not ask this question because I didn't do the research I ask it because I did do the research and am now comparing the results. But at the same time I do ask all the other questions you ask first. But frankly when a breeder comes back and tells you are not an appropriate fit for her pups thats also pretty insulting as well added to the fact that some of them get fairly personal into your lifestyle and may comment negatively on it is also not exactly nice either. Luckily this situation hasnt happened to me yet.

Its a double edged sword either way which is frankly how it should be.


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## SunGold

I've heard so many bad things about that guy and his "breeding program".... I wish people would stop buying puppies from him. So disheartening.


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## nolefan

LuvGoldies75 - I think you've figured out that this guy is not an acceptable option for a puppy. Have you started a new thread to get guidance on how to find a really good breeder? I'm sure by now you've read our "finding a breeder" stickies about health clearances etc. You can find more info at GRCA.org. 

This forum can give you some useful guidance on finding good breeders. Have you contacted Yankee Golden Retriever Club or one of the other local clubs to ask for their breeder referral contact? A google search or check on the GRCA site will provide a list. It's a good way to start. Best of luck.


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## goldlover68

LovGoldies75...
Well after you have read all the comments here, you will surely now understand the variety of dog people that are on this site! I find it maddening at times because many here really think they are experts in one form or another.....some are and many are not! 

I like how you handled this situation and I wish more people would be welling to stand up for what they believe is right. Some people work so hard at being politically correct or to avoid confrontations, that it allows no room for COMMON SENSE. 

So well done, from me!


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## Brave

I'm having a heck of a time finding the exact article that I had envisioned in my original post. One I've found instead is: http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...r-breeder-puppy/290570-rise-puppy-prices.html

I'll keep looking for the article I was thinking of and if I ever find it again I'll post it.


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## Brave

Here's a link where a breeder attempted to itemize their costs for a single litter of 6 puppies.... PUPPY PRICING - www.forumgoldenretrievers.com



> FORUM GOLDEN RETRIEVERS	COSTS BREEDING A LITTER	PRICE
> DAM REQUIREMENTS:	"The Big 4" GRCA Hereditary Conditions	"NOT INCLUDING SHOW EXPENSES"
> __________________________
> OFA Hip Dysplasia $100.00 to 180.00
> OFA Elbow Dysplasia $100.00 to 180.00
> CERF Eye Clearance	"LIFETIME 12 yrs" Yearly Eye Exams	$100. x 12 = 1,200.divided by 3 litters = $400.00
> OFA Heart Clearance	Auscultation vs Echocardiogram	$175.00 to 600.00
> OFA Throid Test	Blood Test	$125.00
> DAM REQUIREMENT TOTAL:	(PRIOR TO BREEDING)	$900.00 - 1,325.00
> __________________________	_____________________________________	_________________
> BREEDING COSTS:
> __________________________
> Vet Check on Dam	CBC Blood Work-Smear for Infections	$200.00
> Timing/Progesterone Tests	$140.00 per test/3-6 Tests per Breeding	$420. to 840.00
> STUD DOG FEE:	Service Fee (Deposit)	$300.00
> Remainer of Stud Fee	(3 live puppies)	$1,200.00
> Total Fee:	$1,500.00
> SHIPPING SEMEN EXPENSES:
> A. Fresh Chilled Semen (X2)	Canine Shipping Box; Semen Extender; Ice ( these charges are if your stud dog owner packages it. More $ if a vet prepares it for shipping)	$200.00
> B. Frozen Semen	Tank Rental; Preparation Fee;Tank Return	$400.00 to $600.00
> Plus Shipping Fees:	FedEx; UPS; Airplane-Counter to Counter; Bus	$200.to 600.00
> SEMEN INSEMINATIONS:	(Pick one: A. B. C. or D. Expenses)
> A. Natural breeding	Driving to Stud Dogs Location	xxx.xx
> B. Artificial Insemination (A-I)	If performed by a Vet	$150.to 300.00
> C. Transervical	"Vet Procedure" (usually inseminated twice)	$300.to 600.00
> D. Surgical	"Vet Procedure"	$1,000. to 1,500.00
> Ultrasound	To Confirm Pregnancy	$60.00 to 150.00
> BREEDING TOTAL:	(NO PUPPIES YET)	$2,580.- 5,390.00
> __________________________	_____________________________________	_________________
> CARING FOR DAM & PUPPIES:	(Not including cost of whelping box)
> _________________________
> Dam (gestation through whelping)	Extra Food for Dam; Supplements	$500.00
> Whelping	Natural-Cesarean	$0 to 2,000.00
> Post Whelping Vet Check $150. to 250.00
> Whelping Supplies	Bedding(at least 3 sets of bedding)-Oxytocin/Vet on call-Extra towels-Pedialyte-Puppy Collars-Heating Source-Disinfectants-New Linoleum (to put around the whelping box)	$800. to 1,200.
> Washing and More Washing!	Bedding is washed Daily	$200.00
> Raising Puppies	Food-Bedding "Carefresh Litter"-Toys-Replacement Toys-Possible New Pens-Toy Pools-Possible Pet Sitter-Worming Supplies	$1500.00 and up
> Vet (when their is no problems)	Vaccinations-Microchip-Health Checks	$80. x 8 = 640.00
> SUB TOTAL:	LOW TO HIGH	$3,790.- 6,040.00
> Sleeping in The Box	NO SLEEP	WANT SOME SLEEP!
> _______________________	____________________________________	_________________
> GRAND TOTAL:	LOW TO HIGH	$7,270.00 to 12,755.00
> DIVIDED BY 6 PUPPIES	AVERAGE "COST" OF 1 PUPPY	$1,211.00 to 2,126.00
> _______________________	____________________________________	________________
> 1/FORUM GOLDEN RETRIEVER	PET PUPPY..............................TOTAL:
> _______________________	____________________________________	________________
> Replacement Costs of worn out items ??.??
> THIS IS JUST THE "COST" OF RAISING 1 AVERAGE LITTER OF 6 PUPPIES.
> THIS IS SIMPLY A "HOBBY" AND A LOVE FOR THE GOLDEN RETRIEVER BREED. I HOPE THIS PUTS THE COST VS PRICE WE CHARGE FOR A PUPPY IN PERSPECTIVE.


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## Swampcollie

kfayard said:


> It is like going to buy a car and asking the manufacturer why they are charging what they are? One would just research and research to figure out what they like best.
> 
> To me, it is insulting for someone to ask why do I charge x amount of money? IMO the buyer has not researched at all. I don't mind at all answering questions as far as health related questions or what kind of socialization do you do? Or can you tell me more specifically about your breeding program? Or how do you socialize your puppies? Do you offer a guarantee? Do you have any references?
> 
> These are specific questions that most reputable breeders will easily answer, but the question "why do you charge what you do?" Is just insulting! Lol
> 
> Again, JMHO.


I have to agree!:appl:

To be honest I wouldn't have even bothered to answer the OP's initial Email. I would have put it in the recycle bin.


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## afire007

Brave said:


> Here's a link where a breeder attempted to itemize their costs for a single litter of 6 puppies.... PUPPY PRICING - www.forumgoldenretrievers.com


This is actually extremely good to know for just about anyone, this should be stickied. But once again I highly doubt most breeders actually follow most of the items listed, only a few reputable breeders do.


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## Brave

afire007 said:


> This is actually extremely good to know for just about anyone, this should be stickied. But once again I highly doubt most breeders actually follow most of the items listed, only a few reputable breeders do.



Are you referring to Dam requirements? 

As for if most breeders follow that or a similar cost/litter, every breeder that *I* would get a puppy from, whom are all reputable cause I wouldn't have it any other way, follow similar procedures with their litters. 

Litters and breeding are throughout and planning extensively for months if not more to find the right stud for their dam, to make sure everyone has proper health clearances, to reduce the risk for genetic complications (from dysplasia to ichthyosis, from histories of SAS to PU, etc), they go to extreme lengths to foster pregnancy, the health of the dam, and finally when those little miracles are born, to ensure the health and safety of every puppy. 

And if you come across a breeder that isn't reputable, who isn't doing this to better the breed, honestly, you shouldn't line their pockets with your money.


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## little tess

Your original question to the breeder was poorly worded at best; at worst it was patronizing and provocative. What was the point of continuing your dialogue with this breeder past his second response? By then. you don't come off as looking for more information about a breeder; you come off as adversarial.


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## Riley's Mom

SunGold said:


> I've heard so many bad things about that guy and his "breeding program".... I wish people would stop buying puppies from him. So disheartening.


This guy is a puppy broker. He has a "partner" out in either NY or PA that he gets his puppies from. It amazes me that people would pay his outrageous prices for a poorly bred puppy. He has different litters of puppies all the time. Sad....:yuck:


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## little tess

Yes Riley's Mom, you're right.


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## CharlieBear80

kfayard said:


> It is like going to buy a car and asking the manufacturer why they are charging what they are? One would just research and research to figure out what they like best.
> 
> To me, it is insulting for someone to ask why do I charge x amount of money? IMO the buyer has not researched at all. I don't mind at all answering questions as far as health related questions or what kind of socialization do you do? Or can you tell me more specifically about your breeding program? Or how do you socialize your puppies? Do you offer a guarantee? Do you have any references?
> 
> These are specific questions that most reputable breeders will easily answer, but the question "why do you charge what you do?" Is just insulting! Lol
> 
> Again, JMHO.


I agree. The buyer can do the research and figure out an acceptable range for the going rate of a well bred pup from a respectable breeder. Asking for a price breakdown seems unnecessary.


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## CAROLINA MOM

Closing thread per OP's request


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