# Housebreaking tips....tell me how to improve what we are doing



## moveqik (Feb 4, 2008)

It has been 25 years since I have had a puppy in the house. Back then we rubbed the dogs nose in the mess, smacked them with a paper etc. Fast forward to now....evidently a lot has changed! So in a effort to be good owners we have read all about positive reinforcement, crate training and the like. That is the path we have chosen. So here is our scenario:

We have a 9 week old. His crate gives him access to the doggie door and allows him to head outside and go potty in a small fenced area. He does this great! No messes in the crate for three days now. He went almost six hours last night before we heard him wander out early this morning to go pee. However, when loose in the house he will go every time he stops moving! Every time we give him a stern "NO" and take him to his fenced potty area. Sometimes he'll finish, other times he won't. When he doesn't, we usually leave him there and he'll come and go into the crate but usually finish his business. He is then showered with praise and we let him back out. Sure enough....within a few minutes he is sniffing and tries to go in the house again!

How can he go six hours at night but need to go every 5-10 minutes when he is loose? Any tips?


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

It is more work for you but when they are puppy I think it is best to take them outside on a leash to the same spot on the lawn and wait for them to go. Then when he does go praise praise praise.


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## moveqik (Feb 4, 2008)

Oaklys Dad said:


> It is more work for you but when they are puppy I think it is best to take them outside on a leash to the same spot on the lawn and wait for them to go. Then when he does go praise praise praise.


I should clarify, we DO do that very thing after meal time, play time etc. He'll go, then we praise him and give him a small snack/reward. Then we go inside and within 5 minutes he is going again. He has yet to find a flooring surface that he doesn't like!


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

5 minutes is VERY soon to be peeing again. You may want to have your vet check for UTI.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I took Shadow out after excercise, eating, napping...I was home the first week or two, so I was able to bring him out every 15 minutes or so. I was told to try to not let him have an accident in the house so he would understand "outside" was the place to go. He was praised when he would go outdoors. On the few occasions I was too late, I just picked him up and brought him outside. I didn't react at all to the accident. It worked for us, but I'm sure it doesn't work for everyone. Shadow was pretty easy to train.

I was also able to train him to only use our yard as his bathroom. We walked a lot when he was a puppy and he would wait until he got home to do his business. Of course, he'd go before we started our walk, too. Tucker just followed Shadow's lead and only goes in our yard, too.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Sometimes pups will pee again right after being outside. At that age they don't have the bladder control to always squeeze it all out when they go outside.

I'd keep him with you on a leash when he's not in the crate. That way you can see the first sign that he's giving the signal that he may need to go - the sniffing, etc. and you can usher him back outside so that he's in the right spot when goes. 

It's also normal for them to go A LOT MORE when they're awake. Key times are:

After eating
After drinking
After napping
After physical stimulation (playing)
After mental stimulation (any type of training, etc.)

I personally don't give a treat for potty. Technically, unless you get the treat in his mouth AS the pee comes out, you're not rewarding going potty, you're rewarding whatever happens right after he goes potty. Plus, I've seen some dogs figure out that by rationing their pee and going more often, they get more treats!

Hang in there... it gets better! AND GOOD FOR YOUR for switching your training methods!


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## moveqik (Feb 4, 2008)

Thanks for the tips. I have been keeping him on the leash while he is in the house and out of his crate. So far....no messes today.

Is it natural to spend the entire time they are out and about telling them "no"? I feel bad but he pretty much goes from one thing to the next. He'll try to chew the corner of something, he'll head for the catfood, maybe grab a shoe, then a pantleg....each time I say no and them offer him one of his toys. I don't expect him to catch on immediately but I do feel like a grouchy old man always telling him "no"


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## Brady's mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Michael, are you confining your puppy to certain rooms in the house? That's what we did--he's blocked into the living and dining room with baby gates. He went through a phase where he tried to chew furniture, but this has pretty much stopped thanks to bitter apple spray. We also keep shoes, laundry, and any other chewable objects out of his area. As for pants legs, well, he's not into them too much, so I don't have advice. Just know that 9 weeks is still awfully young, so it's going to take a few more weeks to figure out right and wrong.

Also, you might consider limiting access to water for awhile, like only water at mealtimes and not after 7pm. That way at least you're eliminating the need to pee constantly if he's not constantly drinking.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

> I personally don't give a treat for potty. Technically, unless you get the treat in his mouth AS the pee comes out, you're not rewarding going potty, you're rewarding whatever happens right after he goes potty.


Let's talk about this. I did the treat thing with Daisy and it worked beautifully. 

I used one special treat for peeing or pooping outside, one that she really loved (liver) and only got when she went potty outside. I would let her out and stood watch by the patio, she would go out onto the grass and as soon as she squatted and started to pee, I raised my arm with the treat and made loud happy noises. She would stop what she was doing to run over to me to get the treat and then she would go back to finish what she was doing. I'm pretty sure she was able to make the connection between treats and pottying outside because after a few times she would stop to look back at me _while_ she was pottying .... she was expecting the treat!

Why did this work since obviously she wasn't getting the treat while she was actually pottying?


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Jo Ellen said:


> Let's talk about this. I did the treat thing with Daisy and it worked beautifully.
> 
> I used one special treat for peeing or pooping outside, one that she really loved (liver) and only got when she went potty outside. I would let her out and stood watch by the patio, she would go out onto the grass and as soon as she squatted and started to pee, I raised my arm with the treat and made loud happy noises. She would stop what she was doing to run over to me to get the treat and then she would go back to finish what she was doing. I'm pretty sure she was able to make the connection between treats and pottying outside because after a few times she would stop to look back at me _while_ she was pottying .... she was expecting the treat!
> 
> Why did this work since obviously she wasn't getting the treat while she was actually pottying?


My thought is that you just did a nice job on housetraining by anticipating her needs and getting her out when she needed to go.... or, if your timing was consistent with the happy noises AS SHE WAS GOING PEE, then the happy noises served as a bridging stimulus (like a clicker) to buy you the time you needed for her to get to you and you deliver the cookie in her mouth... in which case you *did* reinforce going pee.

To clarify: It won't work if you wait for the dog to finish peeing, THEN say "good dog" and THEN feed the treat. You need to either "mark" the desired behavior that you will reward w/in a few seconds or manage to get the cookie in the dog's mouth as they're doing what you want.

I still try and avoid treats for pee b/c I have seen dogs ration the pee... and besides, I fully believe eliminating is self rewarding! We as humans know this to be true if you've ever sat in traffic and have to pee! By the time you get home and hit the bathroom, going pee feels pretty darn good!

-S


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## Nicci831 (Aug 9, 2007)

We didnt give our access to go outside whenever they wanted. I think this helped build their bladders also because they had to hold it and not as they got the urge, just go....maybe it will help if you dont have the outside access available?


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## Kzwicker (Aug 14, 2007)

Murphy didnt have access to go outside as he wanted either. For the first few months we just took him out every time he sniffed around and then eventually every hour on the hour and now only when he asks to go outside. We had plenty of accidents, but it did get better. We live in an apartment so we always took him out on a leash to go potty, but I have heard that works even if you have a yard. They know that when the leaseh is on its time to potty and not play. We didnt say or do anything to him when he did have an accident in the house, just major prays when he did go outside.. 

As for the chewing and stuff, we just made sure to really puppy proof, picking up everything off the floor we didnt want him to get to and to make sure that he had plenty of chew toys, and other toys of his own to play with . I have a few pairs of pants that have holes in the legs, and even one with a hole in the bum, so I know what you are talking about. I know its frustrating, but it does get much better and then all the sudden they are no longer little fluff balls.. so sad..


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## moveqik (Feb 4, 2008)

Again...thanks folks. The feedback has been wonderful. Now I need a little fine tuning. Here is where we are at:

Our boy is in a crate at night and when we can't have him on a leash watching him full-time in the house. His crate provides access to an outdoor kennel via a doggie door. So, when we crate him he is 100% perfect...out the doggie door for poop and pee, no accidents in the crate. When he is outside the crate, we take him out every 30-45 minutes for potty in the same spot. Again, perfect. He always goes potty and no accidents. However, if given ANY free time in the house he is going pee within 5 minutes.

Is this normal? Why is he SO perfect when tightly supervised but yet has ZERO bladder control when given an ounce of freedom? How do we take the next step? More importantly, what is the next step???


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## winewinn (Jan 7, 2008)

Have you tried using an enzyme-based cleaner where he has gone in the past? That helps. Catching him before he goes helps get the point across, too. 

You might want to try bell training... place a cow bell at the door, and brush his nose against it every time you take him out to pee. That way he may catch on to being able to notify you that he is ready to potty? 

Then say "potty" while he's doing his business and praise him afterward. Hopefully he will begin to associate you saying the command "potty" with eliminating in the place he should.


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## moveqik (Feb 4, 2008)

We do use an enzyme based cleaner. He doesn't ever go in the same place twice, however.

It is very clear that he understands that when we go out to the potty area, he is supposed to go potty. However, he obviously does _not_ get that he _shouldn't_ go in the house. He'll go inside in a matter of seconds if left unsupervised. When do they get _both_ parts:

Part one - Go potty outside when given the chance
Part two - DON't go potty inside

Seems easy enough to me.:


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## cpsimone (Jan 4, 2008)

Hi Michael,
A lot of what you're saying is really resonating with me. I just brought Ella home - she's only 8 weeks but does exactly what yours does. She will pee SO OFTEN inside the apartment. I thought about the UTI, but I really don't think that's it - i think it's just their bladders are so tiny, they can't get it all out at once, then if they get the least bit worked up, they just feel like they want to get out every little bit as soon as they feel the urge. 

Unfortunately, I think the thing is, they just can't have freedom at this age - you still have to constantly supervise indoors because, as you pointed out, they just don't always really 'get' the principles even if it seems they've started to.

Unfortunately for me, I live in NYC and there is no immediate access to the outdoors (and without all her final shots i can't really take her out there anyway)...so I've had to use wee wee pads. Stinks because eventually when her bladder's bigger I'm going to have to retrain her to go outside, but what can you do...

Anyway, the same version of events was happening for the first day with Ella - she'd go like every 10 minutes. I didn't think it was working because her piddles were so fast it was hard to react on a dime to correct her right in that moment, but EVERY TIME she squatted, I would run over, pick her up and go put her on the pad. When she was on the pad, I'd say "go pee" a million times to try to get it to sink in, even though 90% of the time, by the time I got her on the pad, she'd already gotten out all the pee she had in her. But I just kept repeating the process literally every single time it happened (exhausting!). Well, much to my surprise, the next morning she got out of her crate and went straight to the wee wee pad!

So, I'm wondering if maybe you keep doing the same thing...keep an eye on him in the house all the time initially so you can make sure to correct EVERY INSTANCE of the bad peeing behavior. As soon as he starts to go, run over as fast as you can and say "NO", pick him up, rush him outside, and repeat "Go pee" (or whatever your version is). I know this is easier said than done, but in my opinion, it's the only way to create the missing link for him - that not only is going outside to pee "right", but peeing inside is "wrong".


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## LOVEisGOLDEN (Jan 4, 2008)

with Layla we used the potty bells from the start, and took her out after eating, drinking, playing, sleeping, every hour or so. when she did have an accident we would soak up the urine and take the paper towel and her outside, put the soaked towel in the grass and praise her like she really peed there. (then came back in and cleaned throughly with natures miracle.)

then one day she had peed in the carpet twice in 20 minutes, and i lost my temper (we had just came back in from the first accident-she stopped, looked strait at me and peed). not over the top, but just a loud "Layla, NO!" and a firm scruff shake. that was at 12 weeks old (13 days into training) and we haven't had an accident since (she's 6 months now)


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

I suppose I can't say for sure it's the problem, b/c I've never heard of doing it this way before, but I honestly believe that part of what you are seeing comes from him having free access outside from her crate. To my mind, it seems that he doesn't have to learn to "hold it" ever... just find a spot to go. When he is in the crate, obviously he goes to the only place he can... outside. But when he's free in the house it's just anywhere. At this point, he needs to be under direct supervision (whether tethered to you or just you having a _very_ close eye on him) when he is out of the crate... and the crate needs to actually be a place where he is confined and required to hold his bladder. Perhaps others who have done it in a way similar to yours will have different advice, but this is the only thing that really stood out at me. Good luck with your pup!! 

Julie and Jersey


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## Brady's mom (Dec 20, 2007)

Michael, I went back and re-read the thread. You don't mention whether you are limiting access to water, but I suggest you give this a try. We started out giving Brady water with meals only, and maybe once in between each meal and no water (except ice cubes) after 7pm. This made a huge difference for us--you gotta limit what goes in and know exactly WHEN it goes in so you have some idea when it's going to come out.


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## Packleader (Nov 27, 2007)

I have trained 2 of my pups with the bell ringing method. They picked up on it fast. Ring the bell and make them touch it either with their paw or nose...and say outside. Then I always went with them and told them to go potty. That way I knew for sure they went, for now anyway. I also crate train them. Once they catch onto the idea that ringing the bell means to go potty outside you have it made. I put bells on all my doors even the baby gates when I need to keep an eye on them. I can be anywhere in the house and here the bell ring. Good luck. Patience is a virtue and will be rewarded.


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## winewinn (Jan 7, 2008)

He needs to be supervised at all times indoors until it registers. Catching him before (sniffing or circling or squatting are cues) or even "midstream" will help. If unsupervised, crate him so he isn't set up for failure. 



moveqik said:


> We do use an enzyme based cleaner. He doesn't ever go in the same place twice, however.
> 
> It is very clear that he understands that when we go out to the potty area, he is supposed to go potty. However, he obviously does _not_ get that he _shouldn't_ go in the house. He'll go inside in a matter of seconds if left unsupervised. When do they get _both_ parts:
> 
> ...


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

> Is it natural to spend the entire time they are out and about telling them "no"? I feel bad but he pretty much goes from one thing to the next. He'll try to chew the corner of something, he'll head for the catfood, maybe grab a shoe, then a pantleg....each time I say no and them offer him one of his toys. I don't expect him to catch on immediately but I do feel like a grouchy old man always telling him "no"


The word "no" gets to be one of those words that goes in one ear and out the other...just like with kids! :lol: 

Puppies often respond to a loud "Ack or AT AT" much more quickly than no. And, it's part of the puppy training period. They have to learn what's acceptable and what's not..and the sound you make gives them that message.

Giving him a toy that he likes in place of whatever he's currently interested in is a good way to divert his attention. It also shows him what's acceptable to chew on/play with and what isn't.

Also...if he's wandering all over the place getting into things, perhaps that's the time to take him outside and let him romp and play for a few minutes to burn off some energy (with you along for fun!). With a pup this age, that shouldn't take long! BUT...as he ages, he'll stay awake and find more ways to get into trouble for longer periods of time, so the one thing to remember is "a tired dog is a good dog". 

If the weather's really bad, you can use that time to give him his daily lessons on sit, down, stay, come, etc. They're fine to teach in the house. A hallway with all doors closed and just the two of you there is a great place to do this.

If the weather's good.......do these training exercises outside. But NO forced walking on lead around the block, etc. Keep him off of hard surfaces for several months if at all possible. Grass, sand, etc is great. Put him on lead now (just to get him used to it), but let him romp, wander, sniff, wander, etc. You'll find he walks, runs, stops. Then does it again. That's how he self-limits his energy. Don't make him do more than he's ready for at any given time. If you can let him out (with you) in a fenced area, or a safe open area to play.....that's really good for him.

He can start learning these things now. He's not too young. They learn faster now than if you try to teach them later.

Right now....5 minutes 3x a day should do it. Once again, as he ages......he'll have a longer attention span and can "work" a bit longer, but even at 6 mos.....15 mins 3x a day is enough for him to learn. Teaching them to use their brain is just as tiring to them as running around. Even more so at times.

Between the lessons and playtime with you.....he should do fine.

Going to puppy school is good too......really good!

I'm glad you're getting the peeing under control. I'm happy to hear that you've changed with the times! That's great!


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## moveqik (Feb 4, 2008)

Ardeagold said:


> Keep him off of hard surfaces for several months if at all possible.


Thank you very much for all of the advice but really??? We go on two walks a day around the block. He loves it.:gotme:

He also has a blast in the back yard when we can supervise him.


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## winewinn (Jan 7, 2008)

moveqik said:


> Huh??? Really? You can't be serious. We go on two walks a day around the block. He loves it.:gotme:
> 
> He also has a blast in the back yard when we can supervise him.


As long as he isn't running tied to a bicycle the walks should be just fine. 

Ardea has a good point, though. One thing to be careful about is hip dysplasia. As much as it can be inherited, it can also be environmental. Too much on a pup can cause it, for example if you were running the pup on slippery flooring for three miles daily, that would probably be an environmental cause of hip dysplasia.


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## moveqik (Feb 4, 2008)

Ahhh...I see. Nothing slippery other than the tile in our house and he is just hangin out there for the most part. The walks are on the sidewalk. Backyard is all grass and he has taken to the sandbox for good digs. 

It is awesome! He has shown no interest in digging in the yard and heads straight for the sandbox. I've heard they like the cool sand when they dig in.


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