# Commands vs Expectations



## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

Most of the things you describe as "expectations" sound to me as things you have trained him to do as a puppy...They are the things I'm working on now with Tess, and she's only 16 weeks old. I hope that those very basic things will become automatic...And yes, boundaries are necessary!


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## Laurie (Sep 20, 2009)

I agree with you...boundaries are definitely required. Our dogs do many of the things Ranger does (ie. wait to eat until they're told to do so, coming to us and sitting when we have the leashes, waiting before they enter or exit a door, settle down when asked to, etc.) Again, they do need some gentle reminders at times but for the most part are very obedient and appear to me, to be very well adjusted and happy.


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## mdoats (Jun 7, 2007)

> She told me she thought that was too much for a dog and he can't live a good life with so much pressure and so many rules.


Wow. I wouldn't want to live with a dog who didn't follow those expectations! Rookie is trained to do the same things you describe. I think that's pretty basic stuff.


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## Doodle (Apr 6, 2009)

Yup, we've trained Brady the same way too. He comes to my office with me a few days a week, and I'm constantly hearing "Wow, he's so well behaved. I could never get my dog to do that." I always respond politely like you did, but the thought that always goes through my mind is, it's not your dog with the limitations...it's you.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Environmental cues are just as powerful as verbal/visual cues. It's very simple to teach a dog that the door is a cue to sit, or that the family sitting at the table is the cue to head to his bed. 

At times, it can be easy to forget there are calm dogs out there that don't necessarily need all of this, or that personal preferences might have other needs. Or that some people just can't imagine how on earth to teach these things to a dog!


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## kaysy (Jan 9, 2010)

I agree, he seems like a well behaved dog. Marty is almost 7 mo and we're working on most of these behaviors.


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## Muddypaws (Apr 20, 2009)

She is nuts and you are right. And I am working to get my two to behave like your Ranger. Kudos to you, all dogs need boundaries and rules. We all do.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I get the same thing. I always respond with "years of obedience schooling and practice". Unlike the response you get, people ask me when they can bring their dog over.

Regarding expectations: I think our dogs learn our expectations over time, little by little, possibly without our being aware of teaching them. I used a lot of Uh-Uh and ack-acks with Penny which would put her attention on me. Then I gave a command. Now she just looks to me and I can hand signal when I want. 

Our boundaries are more lax than yours: she beats me up and down the stairs everytime! But the boundaries we have are firm and we've always been consistent with them. I think consistency of expectations if the best gift a person can give his dog.

I remember one time I was lunging my horse and he was responding to my voice commands including halt and back. Lunging means he's 30 feet from me on a long line. A man in the arena for someone else came near and asked "how long did it take you to get him like that?" My answer was my first thought: "Including today?"

So when you're consistent, when the decisions for the dog are black and white, it's much easier for them to be successful.


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## hgatesy (Feb 14, 2007)

I think all the boundaries/expectations you mentioned are fairly normal and Ranger is not leading a miserable life because he's expected to sit patiently for his dinner. Does the woman think it's horrible to teach children table manners?


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

hgatesy said:


> I think all the boundaries/expectations you mentioned are fairly normal and Ranger is not leading a miserable life because he's expected to sit patiently for his dinner. Does the woman think it's horrible to teach children table manners?


I would guess she does! I would rather have my dogs relatively well behaved and welcome in more places than out of control and locked in the yard. To me that's more 'freedom' for them if they're under control...

Lana


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Our dogs have tons and tons of things you're calling 'expectations.' That woman you were talking to doesn't understand dogs. The unhappiest dogs I know are those who have no idea what they're supposed to be doing and are then yelled at or ignored when they misbehave. Good manners become habits. There's no "pressure" on the dog to obey them. The pressure comes when the dog doesn't know how to achieve approval or how to avoid punishment.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Good to know I'm not out to lunch on what I expect from my dog. He certainly seems well-adjusted and happy to me and i love that i can take him pretty much anywhere because of that. Her dog is a lab of the same age and out of control. I feel bad for her dog because he's now living a fairly unhappy life due to his family's mistakes. I'd love to help her help her dog but she if she thinks that rules/boundaries make a dog's life unhappy...I don't see how I can. 

On further inquiry, she thinks my dog is unhappy because he doesn't wag his tail and jump on people when he sees them like her dog. She says her dog is doing that because "he's so happy all the time." I asked her if she thought her dog was happy tied up outside during the day (lives on acreage) while his family does their work outside because he jumps all over visitors and runs off or when he's relegated to the laundry room in the evenings since he's too hyper inside the house. She walked away after that so we'll see what happens. I'd love to help her with her dog but I honestly don't think she sees there's a problem. Poor doggie.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Seriously. My dogs have strong recall, so they can be off leash in cool places. They have good greeting behavior, so they can be pet by all kinds of people. They retrieve to hand, so they can play fetch with anybody. I honestly don't think any of it causes stress, and I can absolutely say that they get a broader, more interesting range of experiences because they have solid manners.

"My dog is happy" is just an excuse she's telling herself to excuse what she hasn't done with her dog. She probably knows it on some level.


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

Dogs, like children, don't come with any training or manners whatsoever. While some are more trainable/biddable than others, a basic set of expectations should be achievable. It makes them a joy to be around. I think the woman you spoke with is a little clueless and maybe a little jealous.

That said, even though I've had a number of dogs, I'm having my biggest challenge with my own two year old lab in the meet and greet department when groups of people are arriving at our home. I'm tenacious and have tried a number of techniques, but can't say it's a satisfactory outcome yet. What works with one dog doesn't always work with the next.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Our meet and greet waited on maturation. She was so excited we couldn't 'get through' to her brain. Slowly she matured and her excitement on waking up (not kidding here) slowed down. She began to hear us and respond. Some are just so excited that it takes a while.


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

What you've taught and trained is what every dog should be taught and trained. Some are quicker learners and more eager to please than others. She probably has a hard headed dog and she does not have the skills SHE needs to train it properly. I've had 2 Goldens and they couldn't be more different. Sam learned quickly and easily, was always a gentlemen, and did not need reinforcement. Ike? He's a bundle of puppy energy at age 3 and needs reinforcement of his commands regularly. His bad behavior now is jumping on people when they first arrive at my door. I'm working with him but it's 2 steps forward and 1 step back. It's not something I can practice regularly since I don't get visitors often. Maybe they have 'rent a visitor' for dog training purposes.


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## Rosie73 (Feb 5, 2010)

I totally agree. Our "Oscar" is thirteen and has always followed rules all his life. It is second nature for him and respect for me. We have been complimented on him by too many people to even count. I must be naive in thinking all dogs should be like him and yours.


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

paula bedard said:


> What you've taught and trained is what every dog should be taught and trained. Some are quicker learners and more eager to please than others. She probably has a hard headed dog and she does not have the skills SHE needs to train it properly. I've had 2 Goldens and they couldn't be more different. Sam learned quickly and easily, was always a gentlemen, and did not need reinforcement. Ike? He's a bundle of puppy energy at age 3 and needs reinforcement of his commands regularly. *His bad behavior now is jumping on people when they first arrive at my door. I'm working with him but it's 2 steps forward and 1 step back. It's not something I can practice regularly since I don't get visitors often. Maybe they have 'rent a visitor' for dog training purposes. *




So glad to hear I'm not the only one with this problem. And yes, maybe some enterprising neighborhood teenagers could make a few extra dollars helping out dog owners like us who need repetitive practice with our dogs.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

I guess what really bothers me about the whole situation is the fact that it's the dog who is paying for it. If the owner was even trying to do something about it or if she didn't care about the lack of manners, it'd be different. Instead, her and her family are so annoyed with the poor dog's behaviour, they are now talking about taking him to the pound. They tried puppy classes but didn't do the training homework each day and when there was no improvement, gave up and started chaining him up/locking him in the laundry room. Of course his behaviour got worse since he's a 9 month old lab who never goes for walks/runs and is now chained up for most of the day. 

So when he is off the leash/chain, he is absolutely nuts (who can blame him?) and running/jumping everywhere. Because it's a lesson horse stable, he's becoming a liability as he's spooking horses and horses/people are getting hurt as a result. I would love to help but so far my ideas/suggestions keep getting shot down. And this poor dog is going to pay a bigger price than he already is.


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