# Running Contacts Anyone? A Camera Question....



## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Our running contacts have been going surprisingly well. I'm still not comfortable enough to believe my dog understands the criteria, yet he is correct so often and with me in front or behind or away and in sequences...that I suppose I have to say he gets it?

Last night at training I had someone else click for us... and they saw different things than I did it. And we don't know who was right.

I had set up my camera, and put it on the video HD setting, because I thought that was the "best" one. But when I go through frame by frame, the moving dog is very fuzzy and I can't really tell where the feet are. Any recommendations on how to better set up the camera to show us what he's doing? Should it be very close? A less high quality setting?


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

How are you looking at it frame-by-frame? IE on the camera, or in a program of some sort... Not all are created equal...

I think what you are doing it a GREAT idea! I will tell you why, but here is a background first. I don't have running contacts, I have tried to train 2o2o. With Barley because his contacts were slow (did not fully understand the criteria) it has resulted in me getting him into the yellow and releasing him, usually with only one or two feet in because we are trying to get points. I know its not the best way, but he is an honest enough dog that he will not release himself, so it works. BUT it leaves me with the responsibility of making sure he is in the yellow. I have made the mistake of releasing him too early a few times...

When I have missed a contact with Barley, the fault is mine. I think he is in the yellow, when he is not. I have had to watch video as proof! I have discussed this with a few people and thoughts are pretty interesting. My trainer mentioned a study on tennis where peoples eyes/mind will project movement based on what they have already seen. So for instance He is heading toward the yellow correctly and my mind projects him hitting it, when he actually has not. Hopefully this makes sense, I am just recalling the conversation, I have never read about it... 

SOOOOO getting video of your running contacts is a wonderful idea, that way you can make sure that what is happening is inline with what you think it happening.

One of my dreams is to have a full-sized dogwalk so I can teach my pups running contacts! Someday.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

I've heard of the tennis study! And maybe that's what's going on.

I've tried going frame-by-frame on the computer and on a program (wmm). But in both places it was too blurry. Today I had the camera in a different setting and much closer... but haven't looked to see yet. 

I actually don't have my own dogwalk...most of our work has been with a plank at home and then some ring rental times. It's been fun to train this, as well as a real challenge in "what do we actually see!" I knew we could have a good 2o2o, I taught the foundation of that with a 3' plank and his teeter behavior was a very solid 2o2o for a period of time. We'll see what happens.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

My trainer has a FAST sheltie, she does 2o2o because she NEEDS a place to stop the dog and control her motion from time to time, get to that needed place for the next part of the course. It does not hurt her course time, if she doesn't need the stop, as the dog starts to pause she releases her. She has battled the running contacts theory in her mind for a long time. She has tried it, and she lost her dogs contacts. She also sees injury...

I have no opinion... Belle does not have either. I suppose in a VERY loose way you could call them running... Belle doesn't run. LOL She always hits her contacts, and we always go on. We are training Quinn to stop. Again speed enemy. She is too fast sometimes for her own good. Dogs with speed, stopping them briefly should not inhibit their performance. 

Now I don't have any camera ideas, sorry...


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Yesterday I put the camera in a different setting (not HD) and put it much closer to the dogwalk. The videos came out much better, but I don't know what variable made the difference!






Like I said, I knew I could get a 2o2o (taught on a short plank and within the first session on a real board, he was staying while I ran past) so I wanted to see if I could train a running contact. Griffin isn't the fastest dog in the world, but he's definitely moving. There are a lot of people with very fast dogs (silvia trkman!) who have running contacts, it can require more handler speed and good handling so that the next obstacle can be cued appropriately, but I don't see that being much of a problem for us.

There's a lot of criticism for "running contacts" and when it's a trained behavior and when it's not. Griffin is definitely systematically trained for a specific final picture. We've worked our way through speed, posture, foot placement, and head placement, and on the obstacles regardless of my position (ahead, behind, moving, stationary, etc) and where he's more proficient (aframe and teeter) we've introduced distractions while performing.


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## dobedvm (Nov 19, 2009)

it's a very nice video - but are you sure he's hitting the yellow each time? just watching, towards the end there are some that would make me wonder if he's truly hitting and 2 that i'm pretty sure he didn't.... 

i like your videos, though - they are great!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

It doesn't look to me like he's consistently hitting the yellow and when he does, it seems to be like a just barely thing and then he's leaping off.

If I were to train running contacts, I think I'd want to work stride criteria so that a front paw was hitting the middle or bottom end of the yellow. The only person I've even remotely followed in terms of watching running contact training is Daisy Peel. DaisyPeel.com. I think she still has some videos up from when she taught her most recent dog.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Here's the video I was talking about: Running Contacts – DaisyPeel.com


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

I'm almost 100% he's in the yellow each time. First criteria piece has been running the whole thing. We're going with "feet separate" for a few sessions now, then we'll be looking at low hits (...I would say his hits are very high right now!) and then low head for a few...and re-evaluate from there. 

It's actually the same three clips
123123 in normal speed and then 1 normal speed, 1 half speed, 1 quarter speed, 2 normal speed, 2 half speed, 2 quarter speed and same for clip 3. 

What I really don't know is if I should count clip 3 as a jump or not. His feet ARE apart but if you look as his 'topography' of sorts, it's different than on the other reps. 

What is also very interesting is how BOUNCY the dogwalk is. The sandbags under the support improved it... but eugh.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I dunno.... I'd worry that in the heightened buzz of competition, you'd get an early leap that would compromise the contact. I'd want "no room for doubt" in the yellow rather than something so close to not being in the yellow.

I quickly watched the Daisy Peel video again and w/o spending too much time analyzing what she's doing, it looks like she's clicking when all four feet are in the yellow.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

But back to your original question... whatever you did with the camera seems to be working! ;-)


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## Bogey's Mom (Dec 23, 2008)

RedDogs, Daisy Peel will be coming to Illinois for a seminar very soon. It's the first time she has ever been to the MidWest. I am not far enough along in my agility training to feel it's worth attending, but maybe it would be worth it for you to go. Here is the link:

Events


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Thanks for sharing the videos and seminar info! I don't think I'll be able to make it, a friend is coming from out of the country that weekend and if not, I might be auditing a (closer!) obed seminar. But it's tempting.

There are a lot of different people presenting very different running contact methods. I wish I had enough dogs and time to compare what my own experience would be. We've seen Ali Rougas and Silvia Trkman present about their methods and have been using slight variations of Trkman's training plan (from watching the first few of the Peel videos.... it's similar-ish so far). 

If the seminar is close to you, think about auditing at least part of a day. One of my early auditing experiences made me realize how important foundation training was (when the very advanced dogs were not so proficient with the foundation pieces!) and definitely made me motivated to be good with my training.


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