# Sick of walking my 6 month..incredibly disobedient outside!!!



## Avalanche 4 (Oct 19, 2017)

Sounds like it’s time for some schooling for Mom and the pup ... Easily corrected with right tools ... 


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

First of all the "dominance" idea isn't an issue with golden retrievers. The secret to a golden is to allow him to be your best bud, he doesn't need a hero to worship. By nature they want to make you happy. Dictatorship is highly overrated with this breed, they do not grasp the concept.

You also must remember this is a 6 month old BABY and needs training. Training a golden is rewarding the good behaviors not correcting the bad stuff. They do so much better if they clearly understand when you like something. You don't send babies to boot camp so lighten up and enjoy your puppy, sit in the floor with his kibble and teach him how to sit, down, turn circles, come to you and follow you... toss the kibble and get excited if he goes for it then call him back for another piece of kibble. When you have mastered all this you can put down a piece of kibble and ask him to leave it for a second or two. The reward is giving him a different piece of kibble. Pick up the piece you set down and put in your pocket. Training sessions should last about 5 minutes several times a day.

Play these games for weeks until he totally understand each of these. Then you can slowly take it to the back porch (on a leash to keep him from wanting to explore) and run through all this until you have his undivided attention. Then take it to the drive way or front yard... again on leash (I use a harness with puppies). If they don't have the same focus go back to the previous location and work on it some more.

Every dog is different, there is no time frame for expectations. It takes as long as it takes. A 6 month old is not going to act like a grown up dog when exposed to the excitement of the outside world. He has to learn how he is expected to act before you go to the amusement park.


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## marshafuzia (Jul 15, 2017)

Hi Nancie,

A 6 month old puppy is just that...a puppy! Outside is a whole new world for him. Don't expect him to respond the same to you outside as he does inside, where there are no distractions. Try working with him in an enclosed yard where there are not so many distractions before you take him out in a larger area with other dogs, cats, squirrels, etc . First of all, I hate harnesses for obedience training or walking. They are great for sled dogs or draft horses. I am sort of an old school trainer. I do believe in corrections. I will use a prong collar. With the " proper " use, a prong is an excellent training collar. A dog will quickly learn that pulling on the leash is not fun or comfortable for him. Unfortunately, prong collars have gotten a really bad rap because so many people do not know how to use them. Or, even how they are supposed to fit. I expect to get a few negative comments about my using a prong. Dog training has come a long way in the last 20 years and there are lots of great new training methods. But, I still believe in some of the " old school " training. My philosophy has always been " Be firm, but be fair ". I do use treats, toys and lots of praise with my dogs as I teach them what I want. But, I also use mild correction when it is needed. The bottom line is; my Goldens are happy and love to work for me. We are successful in obedience, rally, nose work and field competitions. Good luck with your puppy. Are there any dog obedience clubs or groups near where you live? They might be a good resource to get some help.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

This post makes me sad for all kinds of reasons.


First, we're talking about a 6-month old _puppy _who clearly hasn't been taught to walk nicely on leash.


Second, this isn't a dog problem. Sending him away for training won't resolve the situation because the dog isn't the problem here. 



I remember that the OP and I had a discussion in a different thread about "independence" training in the house. The OP felt it was a good thing to train her pup to be comfortable alone, and to be independent from her, by shutting him away in a different room when she didn't want him around, and by ignoring his crying. I don't do this; I don't want an independent dog, I want him to be my shadow, I want him to follow me around, regard me as the centre of his universe and trust me to respond when he needs me. In that discussion, the OP and I agreed to differ. She wanted a "comfortably independent" dog.



So: if you train a dog to be "comfortably independent", then that independence is going to be expressed in other areas of his life too. Your dog is now perfectly comfortable running away from you and resuming his walk with another family. It's not his fault: you've taught him that it's ok to be away from you. Being angry with him is only going to make things worse because he's going to become mistrustful and afraid of you as well.


I'd suggest, as a first step, not ever letting him off leash in situations where he may not come back. He's running away because he's independent, but he's not coming back because he doesn't yet have a reliable recall. If it makes you feel better, very few 6-month-old pups have reliable recalls - it's something that takes a lot of work and practice. By letting him off leash, calling him and having him ignore you, you're "breaking" your recall command. He's learned that he doesn't have to come back because you'll eventually go and get him. So you need to go back to the very beginning. Choose a new recall word, different from the one you're using now. Working in the house, put your dog on a long leash or line, in a "sit", take two steps backwards and call the dog to you, using the new word. Reward him when he comes. Do this 50 times over a few days. Then increase the distance to four steps , call the dog to you and reward him when he comes. Do this 50 times. Then six steps, etc. If the dog doesn't come, reel him gently with the leash and praise (not reward) him when he reaches you. If at any stage you have to reel him in two or three times consecutively, go back to the previous distance (e.g. from six steps to four steps away). When he's coming reliably across the whole room, change the training location - go outside in the yard for example - and start over from scratch, still on a leash or line. Two steps, four steps, etc. Don't ever use the new recall word in a situation where he might ignore you, and always reward when he comes to you. When you've achieved a reasonable recall distance on a leash or line (several weeks), you can start off-leash, but only in situations where you are 100% sure he will obey. If you follow this process, and always reward, you'll eventually have a rock-solid recall, but it will take time. I can now call my dog away from dogs, squirrels and so on, and he will always come back. But it took many months to achieve that.


I also agree with Puddleseverywhere that you may need to make yourself more _fun _for your dog. From your post, you sound angry and frustrated with him, so he may not find you much fun to be with. Puddles gives a lot of good advice. Play games with your pup. Do fun activities. Be upbeat. When walking on leash, walk fast, change direction often, throw in a few short training sequences (sit-stand-down, spin-turn, etc.) with rewards. Always keep your pockets full of treats or kibble and hand them out randomly, just because. You have to become more interesting - and more fun - than other dogs. Do stuff that will make your pup _want _to be with you.


As for grabbing and eating stuff, the way to train this is to make him want to give you things. Reward him for fetching things and handing them over. Make it into a game. When he brings something, exchange it for something better: a reward, a toy, whatever. Throw a party when he gives you an item. Teach him tricks that involve picking things up and giving them to you (e.g. bring a can of beer, find a hidden tennis ball). In the good old days of printed newspapers, I taught my dog to go and get our paper from the end of the driveway, for example. Make it _fun _and _rewarding _for him to give things up. Start in the house, practise lots, then take it outside in a controlled (confined) environment. I would suggest also changing your "drop it" and "leave it" commands because, again, he's learned that he can ignore them or, worse, growl at you and get you to back off. I'd start from scratch with new commands that only have positive associations for him and for you.


Walking on leash without pulling also needs to be trained. Pockets full of treats or kibble, dish them out almost constantly to start with, if the dog pulls you change direction 180 degrees and then reward him when he catches up to you. Be upbeat and chatty, walk quickly, enjoy the process. Given that your dog has now learned to pull, the early stages of training are going to be more difficult. You might find, for the first week or two or even more, that you never make it to the end of your street. But if you're diligent, he'll eventually catch on.



And last, I'd suggest that you find a good training school that will teach you how to train your dog using positive methods, and how to read the world from a dog's point of view. I know you love your dog and I know you're motivated to make this work. All you need is to learn how to go about it. Goldens are very rewarding dogs to train, but can be somewhat challenging in the teenage years. Yours has just become an adolescent and is testing the boundaries, and on top of that he's learned some bad habits, but nothing that can't be overcome. He's a typical puppy!



Best of luck!


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## Neeko13 (Jul 10, 2010)

Awwwww....im hoping some of these other members gave you some good advice...it's not easy, but you will get through this....Hang in there!!!!


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## GoldenMom999 (Apr 14, 2017)

Is this your first golden? The behavior you are describing is pretty typical. Golden's are hunting dogs...that means everything goes in the mouth and they have prey drive. Unless you have wild animals running around your house then outside is a much more exciting place to be a Golden. 

Sounds like you want a relaxing walk where he is off-lead, stays close, leaves other dogs alone and comes immediately when called....at 6 months of age. You are angry he isn't giving what you want. But the tools you have started him with are a harness (which encourages pulling) and a flexi-lead (which doesn't offer any control). I recommend finding a good obedience class...and learning to change his behavior so you can have the relaxing walk you want. To get that walk you have to do the work to teach him...every day.

Patience is needed and realizing he's still a baby and will be to some extent until probably 2-3 years old. Some people can't have patience and when their goldens reach the really naughty adolescent stage (which you have not even gotten to yet) the dog ends up in a shelter. Based on the level of frustration and anger at the dog in your post...I recommend you find someone to help you and the dog before he reaches that really naughty stage.


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## Brodys Rockies (Jan 8, 2019)

nancie said:


> He has an obsession with other dogs, and if he spots one, he will run to them even a mile away, and not come back. He'll start walking with the other family so he can stick with the dogs. It angers me so much because I have to reluctantly come after him in the end. I used to have dogs that strayed and ran and 'did their thing' but they never had this total obsession with other *dogs*. It was just that they liked to explore the area.


Yikes! I have read your post and through the responses...All are providing great and helpful information that I hope you will pay attention to. That said, I'm going to focus on the frustration I'm reading in your post...Not to be redundant, but we're talking about a 6-month-old puppy. He's still a baby. Try to remember that... Just as with an infant child, a puppy can't be expected to understand all you're expecting from him at such a young age. 

You sound like you have lost your patience with your pup. BTW, what is his name? :smile2: Just as with a child, a puppy can sense your frustration which will only make him frustrated as well, and as your experiencing, ignore you. Lighten up! You need to give yourself and your infant pup* patience and time. *

I copied a section from your post to let you know that we experienced the same behavior with our Golden, River when he was a pup. Golden's love people and other dogs. By nature, they're going to go after to them to greet them and play. You need to know, not all people and especially other dogs like that. Your pup could be seriously injured if he playfully approaches the wrong dog. Even worse, he could easily dart in front of a car which would be a sad tragedy. The comments about never taking him off leash at such a young age should be adhered to. In time, and after you and your pup begin to know what each other expects, you will be able to expand his freedom in baby steps. 

I also agree with the comments regarding the issue is not with your pup. To be direct and not beat around the bush, you need some help in learning how to handle a puppy. *Please don't take that as being negative or critical of you by any means. *Your post is from the heart and honest as to how you feel and what you're experiencing. Seek out some help for you in learning more about how to handle puppies and dog training, which in turn will help your pup. Again, lighten up on yourself and your expectations for your pup.

Nancie, keep us posted on your progress and don't give up on your pup. You two will get through this. :wink2:


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

marshafuzia said:


> Hi Nancie,
> 
> A 6 month old puppy is just that...a puppy! Outside is a whole new world for him. Don't expect him to respond the same to you outside as he does inside, where there are no distractions. Try working with him in an enclosed yard where there are not so many distractions before you take him out in a larger area with other dogs, cats, squirrels, etc . First of all, I hate harnesses for obedience training or walking. They are great for sled dogs or draft horses. I am sort of an old school trainer. I do believe in corrections. I will use a prong collar. With the " proper " use, a prong is an excellent training collar. A dog will quickly learn that pulling on the leash is not fun or comfortable for him. Unfortunately, prong collars have gotten a really bad rap because so many people do not know how to use them. Or, even how they are supposed to fit. I expect to get a few negative comments about my using a prong. Dog training has come a long way in the last 20 years and there are lots of great new training methods. But, I still believe in some of the " old school " training. My philosophy has always been " Be firm, but be fair ". I do use treats, toys and lots of praise with my dogs as I teach them what I want. But, I also use mild correction when it is needed. The bottom line is; my Goldens are happy and love to work for me. We are successful in obedience, rally, nose work and field competitions. Good luck with your puppy. Are there any dog obedience clubs or groups near where you live? They might be a good resource to get some help.


I'm with you on the prong and/or corrections. All of the positive reinforcement in the world didn't make it clear to my dog that he was NOT supposed to pull on the leash. We tried those stupid head collars and front clipping harnesses because they are supposed to be "positive" deterrents to pulling. No. They are band-aids for bad training and can even make the problem worse. He didn't learn how to walk nicely on a leash until a couple of OTCH trainers taught me the proper way to correct him, and our bond has never suffered. I actually think setting those boundaries for him made our bond closer because we were finally communicating in a way he could understand. The combination of treats/toys/praise and proper correction when needed gave us wonderful results.


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## nancie (Aug 4, 2018)

puddles everywhere said:


> First of all the "dominance" idea isn't an issue with golden retrievers. The secret to a golden is to allow him to be your best bud, he doesn't need a hero to worship. By nature they want to make you happy. Dictatorship is highly overrated with this breed, they do not grasp the concept.
> 
> You also must remember this is a 6 month old BABY and needs training. Training a golden is rewarding the good behaviors not correcting the bad stuff. They do so much better if they clearly understand when you like something. You don't send babies to boot camp so lighten up and enjoy your puppy, sit in the floor with his kibble and teach him how to sit, down, turn circles, come to you and follow you... toss the kibble and get excited if he goes for it then call him back for another piece of kibble. When you have mastered all this you can put down a piece of kibble and ask him to leave it for a second or two. The reward is giving him a different piece of kibble. Pick up the piece you set down and put in your pocket. Training sessions should last about 5 minutes several times a day.
> 
> ...


I am not a dictator with my pup. He is 6 months and 20 kg.. I am barely 50kg. The issue is not his age here, it’s his ability to drag me and actually injure me when we are out. The point of this post was that inside he is an angel.. that means I’ve taught him sit, down, circle, leave it etc. Inside he listens. Outside he doesn’t. That was the issue, not that I haven’t made time to play with him and teach him fun stuff, which is 98% of our lives. The structure part was just that.. structure. It’s not about me being mean or not playing with him.. I am with him all day, I take him to the beach, I go swimming with him, he does tricks and is super happy.

But I do take from your post that I should probably back up a few steps and start training him on the leash again rather than being angry at him for forgetting certain things. I suppose they still need to be reinforced, or in this case actually trained properly and positively.. and reinforced.


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## nancie (Aug 4, 2018)

ceegee said:


> This post makes me sad for all kinds of reasons.
> 
> 
> First, we're talking about a 6-month old _puppy _who clearly hasn't been taught to walk nicely on leash.
> ...


You’re right. I have maybe transferred this independence too much on the outside, I didn’t realise that I need to keep him on leash.. I thought I was being cruel by not letting him play. You have brought to light that these issues are normal and there’s nothing to be frustrated about, just that I need to actually train him rather than rely on harnesses and flexileads. I know you’re right as well because that was exactly my intention with the flexi lead.. I wanted him to be ‘independent’ and hoped that he would just learn to be around me. I suppose a puppy that young who is just discovering an exciting world will obviously want to explore everything given the choice. 

I do need to switch to a proper lead and collar and go back to step one and actually teach him to walk with me.. I guess I kind of wanted to skip that. I can see that my frustration is a bit unwarranted.. he is super young and actually when I am fun and encouraging, he has really surprised me with how much he can learn. I think because he’s had so many bowel issues and that we had to stop giving him doggy treats, I kind of stopped using treats all together. But like you and others say, that doesn’t stop me from having kibble in my pocket and using that as treats. I think I also didn’t want to do this because I kept thinking to myself that I have to ‘bribe’ him and why should I have to bribe my dog when he listens inside etc.. I think he actually shows so much intelligence inside that I forget how young he really is. (Also I’ve never had a dog this big.. lol it’s easy to forget that he’s a puppy just because he is actually massive). It upsets me also because I’m so weak compared to him now, he is really strong! I think it scares me not to have control. 

Thank you.


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## nancie (Aug 4, 2018)

marshafuzia said:


> Hi Nancie,
> 
> A 6 month old puppy is just that...a puppy! Outside is a whole new world for him. Don't expect him to respond the same to you outside as he does inside, where there are no distractions. Try working with him in an enclosed yard where there are not so many distractions before you take him out in a larger area with other dogs, cats, squirrels, etc . First of all, I hate harnesses for obedience training or walking. They are great for sled dogs or draft horses. I am sort of an old school trainer. I do believe in corrections. I will use a prong collar. With the " proper " use, a prong is an excellent training collar. A dog will quickly learn that pulling on the leash is not fun or comfortable for him. Unfortunately, prong collars have gotten a really bad rap because so many people do not know how to use them. Or, even how they are supposed to fit. I expect to get a few negative comments about my using a prong. Dog training has come a long way in the last 20 years and there are lots of great new training methods. But, I still believe in some of the " old school " training. My philosophy has always been " Be firm, but be fair ". I do use treats, toys and lots of praise with my dogs as I teach them what I want. But, I also use mild correction when it is needed. The bottom line is; my Goldens are happy and love to work for me. We are successful in obedience, rally, nose work and field competitions. Good luck with your puppy. Are there any dog obedience clubs or groups near where you live? They might be a good resource to get some help.


Thank you for reminding me that he’s just a puppy. I think I lost sight of that. It’s easy to do that when you see how intelligent he can be inside.. and how massive he is!

I actually agree with your views and it’s good to hear them expressed in the face of public opinion. How long is one meant to use a prong collar for?


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## nancie (Aug 4, 2018)

GoldenMom999 said:


> Is this your first golden? The behavior you are describing is pretty typical. Golden's are hunting dogs...that means everything goes in the mouth and they have prey drive. Unless you have wild animals running around your house then outside is a much more exciting place to be a Golden.
> 
> Sounds like you want a relaxing walk where he is off-lead, stays close, leaves other dogs alone and comes immediately when called....at 6 months of age. You are angry he isn't giving what you want. But the tools you have started him with are a harness (which encourages pulling) and a flexi-lead (which doesn't offer any control). I recommend finding a good obedience class...and learning to change his behavior so you can have the relaxing walk you want. To get that walk you have to do the work to teach him...every day.
> 
> Patience is needed and realizing he's still a baby and will be to some extent until probably 2-3 years old. Some people can't have patience and when their goldens reach the really naughty adolescent stage (which you have not even gotten to yet) the dog ends up in a shelter. Based on the level of frustration and anger at the dog in your post...I recommend you find someone to help you and the dog before he reaches that really naughty stage.


You’re right, I haven’t actually taught him to walk by my side. I didn’t actually realise that until this thread, which is funny. I think I just didn’t realise because he’s so smart! It genuinely confuses me when he doesn’t understand some things like that.. I think it’s my own lack of understanding that makes me angry.. I’m not angry at him. I love him, I adore him and I can see that he adores me. (I am with him all day while my partner works so I am the one he is most attached to). He is just a puppy and I have to put as much effort outside with him as I have put inside the house. You know actually after I had calmed down after this post, I took him out again. He was pulling like a race horse, but this time I used just a normal leash and collar. I did not leave the front street of my house, because I kept having to stop and do 180’s... but after about 20 mins, I saw the first glimmer of him beginning to understand what I want. I was pretty shocked and I realised it was my fault. 

As for the recall thing, I clearly need to go back to training and stick to that, just because he learned it once before doesn’t mean it’ll stick as he gets older and finds more of his independence. Thank you.


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## nancie (Aug 4, 2018)

Brodies Rockies said:


> nancie said:
> 
> 
> > He has an obsession with other dogs, and if he spots one, he will run to them even a mile away, and not come back. He'll start walking with the other family so he can stick with the dogs. It angers me so much because I have to reluctantly come after him in the end. I used to have dogs that strayed and ran and 'did their thing' but they never had this total obsession with other *dogs*. It was just that they liked to explore the area.
> ...


You’re right to point this out and I thank you for this because it is the answer to my problem. I suppose I became too impatient and forgot that he’s still a puppy and most importantly that I hadn’t even trained him properly in this area. My whole problem actually in ‘not being able to handle the puppy’ is that I keep forgetting he is a puppy. As I’ve just written in a few other replies, I’ve never had a big dog before.. it’s quite jarring to see how huge he is (his dad was bigger than a normal Male golden), how strong he is, and how intelligent he is inside the house where I suppose I really put more effort into training. It just baffles me that a dog can be that smart and still a ‘puppy’ it really does. But when people remind me that he is just a puppy I realise how hard I am being, and frankly unfair because I haven’t given him the proper tools yet. I am being lazy and expecting him to know. It’s time to get back to (fun) training, from scratch, rather than just ‘corrections’. Thanks!


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## LynnC (Nov 14, 2015)

Oh no! I'm sorry Nancie you are going through this with your pup. I can hear your frustration in your post. I have no additional advice as you have received some WONDERFUL advice above. I just want to say hang in there  You clearly want to do whats best for you and your pup


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## Our3dogs (Apr 3, 2008)

Nancie, I just finished reading all the posts here. I know how frustrated we can become when our pups behave so well in one environment, and then take them to another and it looks like we have never spent a moment training them. This happened with our very first Golden. Then we got into training classes and the instructor explained how our pups get very used to each environment and what they learn in one space does not always translate in their little minds to the new space we are asking them to behave in. I learned from that point on, repeat the training in as many different areas as possible. I also learned that teaching the dog to walk "nicely" was one of the hardest things to learn. Since I had started out so poorly, the instructor had me go to a prong collar and taught me how to use it correctly (which is the most important thing). I am also of the mindset it is not a cruel thing. It is just another tool in the toolbox of learning. I have never used a flexi-lead. If you give them an inch, they will take a mile. Now you have a dog maybe 15 feet from you which you have no control over. They can be perfectly happy walking on a 6 ft leash. As mentioned above, as you start teaching him to heal and walk with you, if he pulls, a quick pop of the leash and immediately turn around. If you are turning they can't be going forward. As mentioned it might take 30 minutes to get to the end of the driveway. Been-there! But I would keep a happy voice, have a "no pull" command as I was turning around and when they were walking with me - they got a treat. You aren't bribing them at that point, you are rewarding and "giving them a paycheck" as one instructor explained to me, for doing a good job. Having had 4 Goldens in our lives and 3 Corgi's, I know how we wish they would just wake up one morning and know all the good training things we want them to know. Unfortunately, we have to put in the hard work. I am the "main trainer" in our house and I really enjoy seeing the light go on in their heads when they finally "get it". This is not to say that they won't have set-backs as they go through different growing times. You'll have times when they give you that look as if to say "I have no idea what you are asking me to do, or I don't want to do it" with something we thought they had down pat just days previously. That is my early warning system to get back into the basics and do a refresher. Best of luck to you! Almost all of us have been in your shoes at one point or another. Keep us posted.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I hope this makes you feel better in a weird way, but I have a 60 pound (I think that's 27 kg) 6 month old golden pup + a 6 year old (73 pounds or 33 kg). 

Guess which is a puller?

Guess which one drove me NUTS walking what felt like a 1/2 mile from one end of a show building to the other? 

Guess which one was the one I kept looking back to see if he was still on leash because he was so light on the leash?

Guess which attempted to heel today in the conformation ring? (not a good thing!)

Guess which one was awesome in the ring - gaiting smoothly a full lead length ahead of me and made the cut in a very big class (this is a good thing)?

If you guessed that the 6 month old was an ANGEL and the 6 year old tested my arm muscles while I walked them in one hand while dragging a dolly with my wire crate with the other hand - you be right.

My gut feeling is some dogs just are very long gaited. My 6 year old can take 10 steps for every 1 step I do. And this is a reason why he pulls so bad on occasion. I'm just not moving him fast enough on walks + he's grown very used to hiking off leash. I spent all morning DREADING the walk from my grooming set up to the ring because I knew he was going to pull. Might add, this was a dog who back when he was young had to be jogged for a few minutes at dog shows prior to showing just to get his demons out. :smile2:

My puppy so far is only too happy to strut next to me - and needs to learn to move forward on his own. I actually want a little more pulling forward from him. He's such a wild and crazy puppy - but very sweet and soft when he thinks he's supposed to be heeling

My point is that some dogs are pullers. You cannot gauge what's going on with him based on what somebody else is dealing with. 

I agree with Marsha that harnesses are not wise for the problem you are having. Because it's "comfortable" to pull, that gets reinforced while on a harness. There's a reason why sled dogs and tracking dogs wear harnesses. 

I do not agree about putting a prong or other corrective device on your dog. Because dogs who are neck strong will just pull on prongs too. If you use a prong, you want to use it in a very controlled limited distraction environment. Strapping prongs on dogs for walks - isn't great.  

I do agree re dog training. More classes will help with the distractions + help you sort out how to control your dog. 

I used to help train horses back when I was a teenager through my 20's. This was greenbroke horses who could be jerks sometimes. And that was back when I was about 90-100 pounds tops, so I do not buy anyone saying they can't control a dog because they barely weigh more than the dog. 

A lot of the stuff about training dogs to know you are "boss" gets shuddered away by some people because some people have really odd and awful translations as to what that means. So it's people bullying the dog around the house and turfing over their furniture and bedrooms. 

For me - alpha dog training is not that. It's more along the lines of wherever I go, my dogs follow. It's dogs trusting that I will feed them and I will protect them. They don't have to fend for themselves ever. It's them immediately stopping something if I tell them to knock it off.

And how do you get there? It's adopting methods learned from dogs themselves. Dogs are actually quite good at training the young and up and coming dogs in their pack. They keep them sorted out. They teach them the rules of living. They keep them in their place. Corrections are delivered swiftly and seriously. 

And so on. 

I get carried away. 

But mainly -

1. By the time your dog is 4 years old, you will have forgotten you posted this.

2. Every dog is different - and some are worse pullers than others. It's how they are made. 

3. Continue dog training. If your dog is very well behaved in the house, but not as good outside - that's where you need to train next and keep at it.


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## Peri29 (Aug 5, 2017)

Thank you for expressing my thoughts As well.In addition to that ;one may go "tired","disappointed" when walking a dog but never SICK.I weigh 100 pounds,have hernias and neck problems.Some of the rescued ones weigh a lot and pull a lot,barking or growling to other dogs on the street.How cute is that a dog is So eager and Happy to play with other dogs.I rather get more SICK rather than making them mentally & physically SICK.I am sure he will find the family he deserves,spend adequate time with other for puppy energy and socializing.No further comment


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

In most cases training loose leash walking, recall and many other skills is not about lack of the 'right' equipment but the lack of attention from the dog, because they have not be taught how to or why they 'should' be looking to the owner or that it can be very rewarding for them. 


https://www.clickertraining.com/files/auto-eye-contact.pdf


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## nancie (Aug 4, 2018)

Megora said:


> I hope this makes you feel better in a weird way, but I have a 60 pound (I think that's 27 kg) 6 month old golden pup + a 6 year old (73 pounds or 33 kg).
> 
> Guess which is a puller?
> 
> ...


This is very helpful, thank you!

I am wondering about one more question actually. So I understand that people here are saying that flexileads are bad for teaching golden's to walk nicely beside you, and I am now going to change to the normal leash and collar for walks. But we live in an apartment and we have to take him down the lift to the back of the building where the grass is for a pee every time. Is it still okay to just use a flexilead for that? He likes to go up the grass a little to find 'the right place to pee/poop', and I want to let him do that but also keep him leashed because there are cars there which come to park and other dogs/owners etc. So what about this situation? Can I keep using a flexi just for this or would it impact his training when we walk?

Edit: nevermind. I tried taking him for potty with the normal leash too and it was fine haha. Also, the consistency is probably necessary. Thanks!


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## nancie (Aug 4, 2018)

Our3dogs said:


> Nancie, I just finished reading all the posts here. I know how frustrated we can become when our pups behave so well in one environment, and then take them to another and it looks like we have never spent a moment training them. This happened with our very first Golden. Then we got into training classes and the instructor explained how our pups get very used to each environment and what they learn in one space does not always translate in their little minds to the new space we are asking them to behave in. I learned from that point on, repeat the training in as many different areas as possible. I also learned that teaching the dog to walk "nicely" was one of the hardest things to learn. Since I had started out so poorly, the instructor had me go to a prong collar and taught me how to use it correctly (which is the most important thing). I am also of the mindset it is not a cruel thing. It is just another tool in the toolbox of learning. I have never used a flexi-lead. If you give them an inch, they will take a mile. Now you have a dog maybe 15 feet from you which you have no control over. They can be perfectly happy walking on a 6 ft leash. As mentioned above, as you start teaching him to heal and walk with you, if he pulls, a quick pop of the leash and immediately turn around. If you are turning they can't be going forward. As mentioned it might take 30 minutes to get to the end of the driveway. Been-there! But I would keep a happy voice, have a "no pull" command as I was turning around and when they were walking with me - they got a treat. You aren't bribing them at that point, you are rewarding and "giving them a paycheck" as one instructor explained to me, for doing a good job. Having had 4 Goldens in our lives and 3 Corgi's, I know how we wish they would just wake up one morning and know all the good training things we want them to know. Unfortunately, we have to put in the hard work. I am the "main trainer" in our house and I really enjoy seeing the light go on in their heads when they finally "get it". This is not to say that they won't have set-backs as they go through different growing times. You'll have times when they give you that look as if to say "I have no idea what you are asking me to do, or I don't want to do it" with something we thought they had down pat just days previously. That is my early warning system to get back into the basics and do a refresher. Best of luck to you! Almost all of us have been in your shoes at one point or another. Keep us posted.


Thank you for this. This is very helpful advice.


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## nancie (Aug 4, 2018)

Hi everyone, 

So today was the first time trying to take him out on the normal leash, and as advised I just stuck to the front street in front of my house where there isn't distractions.

He was pulling every 4 seconds (I decided to count just for fun), but after maybe 6/7 minutes of starting and stopping, he reached a whopping 14 seconds at one point walking beside me without pulling! I am feeling so renewed with hope and astonished at how quickly he has potential to learn! (My god, when he does pull though, I almost always lose my balance, it's pretty funny.) I'm also getting used to the stares I get when I randomly stop in the street several times and do nothing...lol. Only maybe 4-5 times did I have to do a full 180, but otherwise he was generally learning to come back to my side every time he pulled and I stopped.

Here's one interesting observation. When I say 'good' or praise him in any way, he gets loads of energy and gets too excited. Even when I say it in the most calm and neutral voice! Definitely, if I treat him with something while we walk, he gets super excited and bounds ahead as well. But it seemed that when I said nothing and didn't involve treats, and just start/stopped, he seemed to understand a lot quicker and stay calm. Is that okay? I heard when I did puppy classes ages ago that the walk is the reward, so I'm wondering if it's okay to just proceed like this. I remember actually even when he was younger, he would find a lot of 'praise' distracting when he was trying to figure out new and complicated tricks. (Like when we taught him to go into his crate if he wanted a treat of chicken.. he would get confused when I was saying 'get in your crate' and adding lots of information. But when I said nothing, he began to process and experiment himself until he got it right).

Also, while before I'd give him one good exercise/walk in the day because he was able to do a lot more, I realise that with us training like this it's better to do shorter sessions and go out more often in the day. So I'll be trying again in a while. 

Just wanted to give an update!


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Thanks for the update! When they pull just stand still, don't say anything... just stand there. They will eventually look back to see what the problem is, when he does give a kibble and get really excited. If he doesn't turn around after a couple of minutes just turn around and go the other way. If he starts to pass you, stop and stand still or walk backwards. He will catch on. No one knows how to do anything without first learning how. He is doing what he knows, help him find a better way 

I usually start by standing in my driveway, pup on leash and every time the pup wanders or finds something interesting I give a little tug and get really excited and reward when they look my way. I do this until they totally understand that looking at me is the behavior I want. I do this until they totally understand that being with me it the best place to be... and don't go out for walks until this skill is mastered. Then you when you venture out they pup knows you are a team.

FWIW I'm just over 100 lbs and almost 70 so totally understand your concerns. I also have a 6 month old puppy and would never let her off leash. We go to the park (very quiet place) on a really long lead and toss a ball to get her to go away from me... my pups need incentive to leave when on leash. I use little slivers of boiled chicken when they come back to me. This is the easiest recall training method for young puppies. 

I use a harness as puppies have extremely sensitive necks. Corrections come after the dog truly knows the behavior. You can't correct something until they understand what you want first. 

It sounds like you are working hard at it and agree with the post to get into a class. Training classes aren't about teaching the dog, it's about teaching you how to train your dog. It's also fun!

This takes time so give yourself a break. If you aren't enjoying the process the pup isn't either. From the puppy mentality, they must enjoy the process or you are going to end up in a power struggle. So keep working at it, sounds like you have done lots of work in the house. The more you get their attention the easier the training will go. Work on this every day and in six months from now you will have a wonderfully obedient dog that will stay with you and come when called.


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## Jmcarp83 (May 4, 2018)

My golden is 6 months old. Does she have times where her leash walking is less than desireable? Yeah- here and there. But training taught me- when she pulls- you can stop. And you don’t go anywhere until she’s heeled and doing what she needs to do- walk without pulling. I’ve also learned if she pulls I can turn around and walk in the other direction to redirect her. 

We didn’t learn all we know by ourselves. Someone taught us. And it sounds like a basic obedience class is what is needed so you can teach the puppy what he needs to learn. 

A 6 month old is also at a point if you have any raised voices/negative tones he’s going to remember it. And you don’t want that. It’s what he’ll remember for his life.

I have found that my dog is a totally different dog on an easy walk harness. I hate it. She thinks she’s tigger. Her car harness is somewhat better but when walking- she’s the best on her collar. Rarely does she pull.


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## Ivyacres (Jun 3, 2011)

nancie said:


> As for the recall thing, I clearly need to go back to training and stick to that, just because he learned it once before doesn’t mean it’ll stick as he gets older and finds more of his independence. Thank you.



Good luck with the recall. Honey is 8 and seems to have forgotten this. It's so frustrating to call her then have to go get her and bring her back. 

I'm working on this again and signed up for a fun class that hopefully will bring her attention back to me when there are lots of distractions.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

nancie said:


> This is very helpful, thank you!
> 
> I am wondering about one more question actually. So I understand that people here are saying that flexileads are bad for teaching golden's to walk nicely beside you, and I am now going to change to the normal leash and collar for walks. But we live in an apartment and we have to take him down the lift to the back of the building where the grass is for a pee every time. Is it still okay to just use a flexilead for that? He likes to go up the grass a little to find 'the right place to pee/poop', and I want to let him do that but also keep him leashed because there are cars there which come to park and other dogs/owners etc. So what about this situation? Can I keep using a flexi just for this or would it impact his training when we walk?
> 
> Edit: nevermind. I tried taking him for potty with the normal leash too and it was fine haha. Also, the consistency is probably necessary. Thanks!


I'm not a good person to ask about flexileads... :laugh:

The only time I've heard anything positive about them is w/regards to training certain things in obedience. 

The puppy classes I've done - the first thing they bring out is the DOOM + the flexileads. Because people do not have enough control of their dogs with flexileads primarily - especially with a strong dog. 

If I had a puller (and I do sometimes with my Bertie as I mentioned above), I'd go to the store and buy the thickest and softest leash for the sake of my hands. In my case, it's a soft round braided THICK rope type leash. 

That and thick leather leashes - with soft leather.


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## Neeko13 (Jul 10, 2010)

It sounds like you're heading in the right direction....:smile2::smile2:


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Flexi leads keep pressure on the collar/harness all the time, you are actually teaching the puppy to keep tension on the lead. Besides, they can break... I've had one snap and when the clasp came rebounding back on me had a gash in my shoulder, which was because I turned or it would have taken out a couple of teeth. 
When walking other peoples dogs I use the equipment they leave for me... after this I brought my own! Tractor supply sells long leads for about $7. worth the small investment.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

I came across this last night and thought it was a "timely" reminder for all of us!


https://nancytanner.com/2016/04/11/...LNRXVdZjPHryJBjbFpESDNpcrFkBqfZhYvMix8c3kHYbg


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## nancie (Aug 4, 2018)

puddles everywhere said:


> Thanks for the update! When they pull just stand still, don't say anything... just stand there. They will eventually look back to see what the problem is, when he does give a kibble and get really excited. If he doesn't turn around after a couple of minutes just turn around and go the other way. If he starts to pass you, stop and stand still or walk backwards. He will catch on. No one knows how to do anything without first learning how. He is doing what he knows, help him find a better way
> 
> I usually start by standing in my driveway, pup on leash and every time the pup wanders or finds something interesting I give a little tug and get really excited and reward when they look my way. I do this until they totally understand that looking at me is the behavior I want. I do this until they totally understand that being with me it the best place to be... and don't go out for walks until this skill is mastered. Then you when you venture out they pup knows you are a team.
> 
> ...


Thank you  That's true I've got to give him the right foundations first.

And yes I've got to find a new class... I was kind of put off them for a while because when we did our puppy class for 5 weeks, it was mostly a waste of money. It was really badly structured and we didn't actually learn much. We hardly got time to practice in class - we would have maybe 5 seconds and then move to the next thing. Maybe because they were so young, I am not sure. But I just remember that most of the things we were taught there I had already taught Maximus. I imagine that the adolescence class is a lot better though.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Hi Nancie,


I read your original post with dismay, worried that you were already "done" with you pup - but then I read through the whole thread and I think you are *really *to be commended for taking all of the really great advice here in the spirit it was offered and not get defensive. You have already shown that you are open to realizing you need to help your pup and teach him to be a good dog, and try other methods. I think you are going to be fine.

If you can, find a good puppy class. They DO teach how to walk nicely on leash, and there are lots of distractions in class, but also a trainer to help with any issues. 

I'm glad you are losing the flexi-leash. They are really not great for teaching any nice walking, and you lose control over your pup. I actually like using a 4-foot leash, because the dog is very close to you. I've used 4-foot leashes on both my dogs, for their whole lives. 

For teaching nice walking (which could take many, many months to conquer!), I fill my left pocket with kibble and small treats, have the dog on my left, hold the leash in my right hand, and basically treat as you walk, praising the nice attention and walking he will do as he gets the constant stream of treats coming from your left pocket. One kibble at a time, but pretty continuous to start. As he gets better, you can walk a few steps, then treat, stretching it out more and more. But ALWAYS - treat as you walk by other dogs or other people. What you want is to keep his attention on YOU (and your left pocket). Be confident and happy and praise and he will learn that walking nicely like that is the best thing ever because it makes you happy. 

I'd not do off leash unless in an enclosed area, but only if you can be pretty close and make sure he's not eating stuff off the ground. Otherwise, I'd concentrate on nice walking for now, and work on recall in controlled areas. My pup was a bolter (towards other dogs and babies in strollers as a pup, so she did not get the freedom to do that, because anytime she succeeded in bolting, she was instantly rewarded in her mind because she got to play with a dog, or got attention from a stranger or got to kiss a baby. I was extremely lucky that the woman with the stroller that Shala bolted to across the park and tried to jump into before I could catch up was very understanding and had a dog and was not at all upset. That could have ended far worse - and I never ever wanted to experience that again. So she was never off leash except in a fenced dog park again until she would reliably not take off (and she was at least a year old, if not older before she was reliable. It DOES take time and patience and constant training).

Anyway. I hope things continue to improve. I do think training classes would help you a lot, too, but I also just want to reiterate my respect for your openness to the advice. Good luck!


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## Golden9 (Jun 13, 2016)

Please start practicing his training outside. It sounds like training inside, so he understands to listen inside. Time to do daily training sessions outside, maybe after exercise so he is more tired and will listen better. And do training when he is hungry so he will want to listen and learn to earn a tiny treat. He is only 6 months, so they can be crazy. He may need some time to really play outside, run and play with him outside, teach a fun game of fetch, you may have to start with 2 balls. He brings ball back, Drop It. treat. If he refuses to drop, then throw the other ball, eventually they get the idea to drop the ball. He is a teenager, so they can be crazy, I remember going thru this, I didn't think I would survive with a 6 month old Golden, I wanted to give up, it was so hard. But we kept going, and at 8 months, it got much easier, more interested in listening and pleasing. At 12 - 14 months, was amazing, all the training classes and wanting to please, really took effect. It got easier after that. Get some fun agility stuff, like Cones to GO AROUND. Get a hula hoop, have him walk thru the hula hoop. Put the hula hoop laid out in the yard, teach him to GO HOOP, he runs and lays down in the hoop. Then get 2 or 3 hoops, so he can be taught to GO HOOP to each hoop you point too. Or put lawn chairs out in the yard, teach him to GO AROUND the chair. Teach him to weave thru your legs, UNDER, UNDER. Teach him to SPIN. Look for fun tricks to teach him, because Goldens seem to excel at learning simple tricks, they like getting to do something for a reward. Obedience training is all about control so you need basic obedience, but then go to Tricks because I see the joy Goldens have learning tricks. Not all Golden will love tricks. Start trying to see what your Golden can learn easily, and then build upon those tricks, outside and inside. I put up small 3 inch to 6 inch jumps in the yard, and started teaching some small jumps. Get creative, lots of dog tricks ideas online. Or sign up for a Dog Trick Class at pets mart or other dog trainers. I signed up for a set of Dog Trick Classes at a local pets mart and we learned one trick a week, after that, I just kept going, looking for ideas for tricks that my golden excelled at, getting fun props, and that was fun for my Golden.


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## murphy1 (Jun 21, 2012)

Keep working at it, it will pay off.


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## nancie (Aug 4, 2018)

Sweet Girl said:


> Hi Nancie,
> 
> 
> I read your original post with dismay, worried that you were already "done" with you pup - but then I read through the whole thread and I think you are *really *to be commended for taking all of the really great advice here in the spirit it was offered and not get defensive. You have already shown that you are open to realizing you need to help your pup and teach him to be a good dog, and try other methods. I think you are going to be fine.
> ...


Hi there, thank you for being so kind. I forgot that people on the forum don't know me in real life haha, so I was surprised when I got a private message from someone wanting to reassure me on not giving up on my pup. But I definitely did not mean that I was 'done' with him or that I wanted to give him up or anything! I am just a very expressive person, and a lot of my post was just frustration - I had written it right after the walk. The impatience and judgementalness is mostly directed towards myself because many people who know me in real life know I'm hard on myself a lot and I expect a lot out of whatever it is I'm doing. I like structure so when I get a thought in my mind I stick to it a lot.. so when it's not working out, I get annoyed at myself and the situation, but it was never about him or in the grand scheme of things! The frustration and saying 'I'm sick of this' I just meant that I was finally asking for help rather than trying to do it all myself without guidance. 

So I am really happy with all the guidance and help! I genuinely am so appreciative of the kind thoughts people have given me and thankful they saw through the intense emotion, and saw that I just needed a bit of help. I sometimes get the thought that I 'know what to do' and so part of my being upset was thinking 'what if there is nothing left to do! how do I fix this!' I am geared towards problem solving, not giving up ever! So I probably should try not to write next time right after something like that happening! haha. The proof is even in the fact that maybe an hour after I wrote this, I calmed down naturally (and I hadn't checked the forum) and decided to take him out once again. So, sorry to anyone who was jarred by the intensity of my post. Underneath I am just worried I can't do it, because I know ultimately it's down to me (I make my boyfriend take the passive stance on these situations haha).

With that said, thanks for that advice! Especially about the bolting, I never thought about how that is so self reinforcing to the dog, and reinforces bolting specifically! It makes sense. I am wondering how can I exercise my dog properly if I can't take him to a big park like this or let him off leash? should I focus on building up games between us more now, like fetch? He loves it in the house but never really kept his interest outside. If we are in an enclosed area, where no other dogs are, would it be good enough to be playing fetch with him and things like that until he is 1 years old and can be trusted off leash in other areas? Thanks !


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## GoldenMom999 (Apr 14, 2017)

nancie said:


> You’re right, I haven’t actually taught him to walk by my side. I didn’t actually realise that until this thread, which is funny. I think I just didn’t realise because he’s so smart! It genuinely confuses me when he doesn’t understand some things like that.. I think it’s my own lack of understanding that makes me angry.. I’m not angry at him. I love him, I adore him and I can see that he adores me. (I am with him all day while my partner works so I am the one he is most attached to). He is just a puppy and I have to put as much effort outside with him as I have put inside the house. You know actually after I had calmed down after this post, I took him out again. He was pulling like a race horse, but this time I used just a normal leash and collar. I did not leave the front street of my house, because I kept having to stop and do 180’s... but after about 20 mins, I saw the first glimmer of him beginning to understand what I want. I was pretty shocked and I realised it was my fault.
> 
> As for the recall thing, I clearly need to go back to training and stick to that, just because he learned it once before doesn’t mean it’ll stick as he gets older and finds more of his independence. Thank you.


Good job! Every time my dogs don't do something I want...I try very hard to remember that really they only want to please me even if it's making me crazy!


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## marshafuzia (Jul 15, 2017)

Hi Nancie,

Thank you for keeping an open mind about my suggestion of using a prong. Please get some one that knows how to put a prong on properly and to help you use it effectively. If used the wrong way a dog can learn to " pull through it " and they will become unresponsive. You never want your dog to pull on the prong. You want to use a quick pop and release. Kind of like riding my horse. Your goal is for the horse to be light and responsive on a loose rein. If I kept the reins tight all the time....it teaches the horse to pull and they become tough mouthed. Good luck and please don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions.


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## Goldens&Friesians (May 31, 2014)

I didn't read through the other responses so sorry if this was already mentioned. Harnesses-even the quote "no pull" ones-are never a good idea to use if your dog pulls. They actually like pulling-it is a rewarding activity for them-that's why harnesses are used on sled dogs. Also, the front clip harnesses can cause serious damage to dogs if the pull hard enough. So first step is get rid of the harness! This is probably not going to be a popular opinion, but I would strongly recommend a prong collar. Not just any prong collar though-you need to get the Herm Sprenger brand-also, find someone who knows how to PROPERLY fit a prong collar and have them show you how to fit it and use it-they should not be loose hanging around the dogs neck, but tight enough that they stay just under the dog's chin and behind the ears. When the dog pulls, it feels pressure that simulates to him what it felt like to have his mother discipline him as a puppy. Contrary to popular belief, the prong collar-fitted and used correctly-is actually one of the most humane forms of a training collar you could get. Popular belief and opinion would tell you to get a Gentle Leader or Halti collar (supposedly they are humane.)-if you understand how these work though, they are extremely painful and inhumane for the dog-which is why they work-dog feels the pain the first time he pulls and never does it again. The halti collar or gentle leader places ALL of the dog's weight on his nose-can you imagine how badly that would hurt to be a 60lb dog and hit the end of the leash at a full out run and have all your weight thrust right onto your nose!? Humane? Yeah right! Here are some good articles about prong collars and halti collars/gentle leaders.

https://www.nitrocanine.com/blog/2017/04/18/use-prong-collars-every-dog/

https://www.nitrocanine.com/blog/2015/02/10/the-head-halter-torture-pain-and-nonsense-explained/ 

Disclaimer: I've never actually had to use a prong collar on my goldens, I've just used rolled leather buckle collars or choke collars (which are actually not as humane as prong collars, but look less scary to people-dogs actually choke a lot with these, unlike prong collars which allow them to breathe normally). However, my parents recently rescued a husky lab mix puppy and as she has gotten older/larger my mom was struggling to walk her-worried she would fall down trying to walk the dog. I measured her for a prong collar and got her fitted and showed my mom how to use it-mom says the walks are night and day difference compared to the choke collar she had been using. Her dog listens more, pays more attention to her and her favorite part is that she doesn't breathe like she's going to die with the new prong collar! She is no longer afraid to walk her dog! In the dog's defense though, my mom has never been much of an authoritarian with our dogs-they usually learn that they can get by with more stuff with her. My sister can walk this same dog with a buckle collar just fine.


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## Lincgold (May 11, 2018)

*Walking 6 mos old*

A lot of great advice here. My six month old pup loves to pick up sticks, leaves, clumps of moss outside on his walks. I am always stopping to remove them before he chews them up. I found that when I give him a nice sturdy stick/branch to carry, he doesn’t bother with anything else. He walks around happily with his stick holding on to it til we return home. I actually keep it on our stoop where he can find it again for the next time. He is our sixth Golden; we also have a 10 year old who never bothered with anything on the ground. They are all different with their own distinct personality. I’m sure you want to do the best for your pup. Training for his age group will certainly help. Good luck


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## eeerrrmmm1 (Apr 15, 2018)

nancie said:


> I am wondering how can I exercise my dog properly if I can't take him to a big park like this or let him off leash? should I focus on building up games between us more now, like fetch? He loves it in the house but never really kept his interest outside. If we are in an enclosed area, where no other dogs are, would it be good enough to be playing fetch with him and things like that until he is 1 years old and can be trusted off leash in other areas? Thanks !


We use a 30 foot lead in our yard to play fetch. It definitely helps that there is a natural boundary of woods surrounding the majority of the yard so she knows where she's not suppose to go.. and when she gets a little too curious and tries to go into the woods, I jog over (or run at full speed lol) and step on the leash. 

Do you have an outside area that has some sort of natural boundary where you could play fetch with him on a long lead? If not, even playing in a field, as long as you don't throw the ball too far or allow him to get too far ahead of you, a 30 foot lead would help and be safer than being completely off leash. 

Btw, your signature pic is beautiful. It's so Scottish! The landscape and the golden retriever. <3


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## nancie (Aug 4, 2018)

eeerrrmmm said:


> We use a 30 foot lead in our yard to play fetch. It definitely helps that there is a natural boundary of woods surrounding the majority of the yard so she knows where she's not suppose to go.. and when she gets a little too curious and tries to go into the woods, I jog over (or run at full speed lol) and step on the leash.
> 
> Do you have an outside area that has some sort of natural boundary where you could play fetch with him on a long lead? If not, even playing in a field, as long as you don't throw the ball too far or allow him to get too far ahead of you, a 30 foot lead would help and be safer than being completely off leash.
> 
> Btw, your signature pic is beautiful. It's so Scottish! The landscape and the golden retriever. <3



Oh that's an amazing idea. Thanks! I actually bought a loooong training leash when we first got him but it's been in his 'doggy drawer' ever since because I never really knew what to do with it. I just remember reading up at the time on what I 'needed' so I just bought whatever was on the list haha. I am glad it will be of use!

Thank you about the signature picture! Haha yes, Scotland has some amazing views. This landscape is quite common and even being in the city we are surrounded by them! (so to answer your previous question, I am sure there are some fields here that are not too populated  )


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## nancie (Aug 4, 2018)

Lincgold said:


> A lot of great advice here. My six month old pup loves to pick up sticks, leaves, clumps of moss outside on his walks. I am always stopping to remove them before he chews them up. I found that when I give him a nice sturdy stick/branch to carry, he doesn’t bother with anything else. He walks around happily with his stick holding on to it til we return home. I actually keep it on our stoop where he can find it again for the next time. He is our sixth Golden; we also have a 10 year old who never bothered with anything on the ground. They are all different with their own distinct personality. I’m sure you want to do the best for your pup. Training for his age group will certainly help. Good luck


I wonder what makes our specific dog such a scavenger lol... does that ever go away when they are adults? Just wondered! But yes Maximus LOVES sticks too. I tried taking him out with a ball earlier. Although he loves playing fetch with the ball inside, outside he is too distracted and excited by everything else and doesn't touch the ball! But he does fetch sticks, and I can throw them and he'll happily fetch that for a while lol. So strange. Yes, the chunkier the better for him lol, sometimes he tries to pull whole tree-type things.


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## eeerrrmmm1 (Apr 15, 2018)

Oh and as far as fetch not being interesting outside - that's just because outside is full of interesting smells and other people/animals/things. Try giving him some free time to check things in his allowed area out for awhile and then when you play fetch, treat him with something he really likes for bringing the ball back to you. I use tiny salmon treats because they're low in calories and easy to chew quickly and swallow. I also vary the way I throw the ball (the direction and how much it bounces) to keep her interested. Good luck!


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

nancie said:


> With that said, thanks for that advice! Especially about the bolting, I never thought about how that is so self reinforcing to the dog, and reinforces bolting specifically! It makes sense. I am wondering how can I exercise my dog properly if I can't take him to a big park like this or let him off leash? should I focus on building up games between us more now, like fetch? He loves it in the house but never really kept his interest outside. If we are in an enclosed area, where no other dogs are, would it be good enough to be playing fetch with him and things like that until he is 1 years old and can be trusted off leash in other areas? Thanks !





eeerrrmmm said:


> We use a 30 foot lead in our yard to play fetch. It definitely helps that there is a natural boundary of woods surrounding the majority of the yard so she knows where she's not suppose to go.. and when she gets a little too curious and tries to go into the woods, I jog over (or run at full speed lol) and step on the leash.



^^ Exactly what I was going to suggest! Long lines are really helpful to keep them from getting away, and also for working on recall, because you can bring them in when you call (and treat and praise when they get to you, even if you are bringing them in in the beginning). Let him run with the long line on - just be prepared to run after him and step on it if he seems like he's not going to come back. 

At that age, you're lucky if you can get 3-4 good fetches and returns before their concentration breaks and they get distracted. But don't give up. Play a little ball every day, let him play with another dog or whatever, but little by little, his focus to the ball will probably grow. Mine was over a year old before she suddenly only wanted to play ball with me and other dogs and people and rocks and grass were no longer as exciting. But right now, they are still so new to the world and discovering new things. You have to let him be a distracted dog a bit.


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## eeerrrmmm1 (Apr 15, 2018)

One other thing to do if you haven't already is work on an emergency recall. Other than training it should only be used in a true emergency - like your pup is about to run into traffic. Using it for every day recall will ruin the power of it.

To train, you pick a call word (or two words) that you will only use for emergencies. Get extremely high value treats and train when he's hungry and motivated to get those treats. When you're 100% sure he's going to come when called, use your new emergency recall word(s) very loudly and clearly and when he comes to you feed him those high value treats for 30 full seconds minimum. It feels like forever when you're doing it but the length of treating time being extra special and different than usual is very important when training the emergency recall. Practice that a couple times per day, then a couple times per week, then just occasionally but only practice when he's hungry, you have enough of something he loves to feed him for 30+ seconds and you are extremely confident that he's in a listening mood.

I feel like it's a serious safety issue for anyone that doesn't have a fenced in yard so it's worth the effort.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Get extremely high value treats and train when he's hungry and motivated to get those treats.


Rule of thumb is golden retrievers are always hungry. 

But play, chase, and socialization TRUMPS food - unless you can build a "connection" with your dog and instill a sense that you are their anchor, their pack leader. Among else - it's training them so they feel no need to run off on you. And training them so they stay close because of YOU - not food.


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## Barlosh (Sep 1, 2018)

If I were you I'd go right back to basics and ditch that outdated 'dominance theory' it's a load of tosh and doesn't work. 

My Jess is also six months old and is also walked on a harness, I have a long lead for her (4ft) and she walks ahead of me with it full length and walks beautifully. When I had her on a shorter lead she pulled and I've found letting her have some freedom changed that completely. I was told by a neighbour to make her walk by my side and not let her go out of the door before me, eat before me etc etc but having had dogs for over forty years I knew this was a load of old tosh. Jess constantly checks to see that I'm still there and comes back often just to touch my hand with her nose and the lead is usually slack because if she walks too fast I tell her "slow down Jessie" in order not to have a tight lead. She responds to everything I say and waits at kerbs until I catch up with her. She's also allowed on the sofa and my bed - she's part of the family and is treated as such. 

Please don't use the Caesar Millan 'training techniques' they are out dated and in the wrong hands can be very harmful, totally confusing for the dog and achieve nothing but bad behaviour. Give your boy some freedom on his walk, call him back to you now and then and give him a treat for returning, ALWAYS reward good behaviour, have patience and a pocket full of treats and you'll see a difference. Golden are good dogs, intelligent and keen to learn but they won't learn through 'dominance theory' training - hardly any dogs do unless you're on to and only show the best bits. 

He's still a baby even though he doesn't look it and will be until around two years old so treat him as one and don't expect him to act like an adult.


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## nancie (Aug 4, 2018)

Sweet Girl said:


> ^^ Exactly what I was going to suggest! Long lines are really helpful to keep them from getting away, and also for working on recall, because you can bring them in when you call (and treat and praise when they get to you, even if you are bringing them in in the beginning). Let him run with the long line on - just be prepared to run after him and step on it if he seems like he's not going to come back.
> 
> At that age, you're lucky if you can get 3-4 good fetches and returns before their concentration breaks and they get distracted. But don't give up. Play a little ball every day, let him play with another dog or whatever, but little by little, his focus to the ball will probably grow. Mine was over a year old before she suddenly only wanted to play ball with me and other dogs and people and rocks and grass were no longer as exciting. But right now, they are still so new to the world and discovering new things. You have to let him be a distracted dog a bit.





eeerrrmmm said:


> We use a 30 foot lead in our yard to play fetch. It definitely helps that there is a natural boundary of woods surrounding the majority of the yard so she knows where she's not suppose to go.. and when she gets a little too curious and tries to go into the woods, I jog over (or run at full speed lol) and step on the leash.
> 
> Do you have an outside area that has some sort of natural boundary where you could play fetch with him on a long lead? If not, even playing in a field, as long as you don't throw the ball too far or allow him to get too far ahead of you, a 30 foot lead would help and be safer than being completely off leash.
> 
> Btw, your signature pic is beautiful. It's so Scottish! The landscape and the golden retriever. <3



Guys, today I went out to the park in front of my apartment with my boyfriend and Maximus and a huge long leash... It was the best time we ever had! I am so surprised. I couldn't keep it in my hand, but I left the leash on the grass, it was very long so he could run around in the general area but if we needed to, we could step on the leash. I had chicken as well to treat him for recall. I took the ball and we were kind of just playing around with him running around, and then me or my boyfriend would randomly say "Maximus, come!" and then treat him for coming. But I also was specifically paying attention to if people were coming near or other dogs, then as soon as he would look at them, I would interrupt him calling him back, and he'd immediately turn to me and I treated him.. so he sort of lost interest in what was going on around! 

One time I was gonna call him but at the same time my boyfriend kicked the ball and he was in mid-catch when I happened to say it, and he actually stopped chasing the ball (which he was SUPER interested in at the time) to come right back to me. It went so well! I am so surprised I never did this before, and it helps because being in one area with him really helps us bond rather than just taking him around the park and letting him meet other people/dogs to tire him out. 

At one point, me and my boyfriend both started running (I have taught him the command for run, and surprisingly it helps as a recall thing when he's distracted by other people.. if I start saying 'run run' he expects me to be running and chases after me). So I started calling 'run' and he was running with both of us.. we kind of felt like a pack LOL was funny. I think he had a great time, we left our phones at home so we couldn't capture anything but it was great. 

Thanks for the suggestion!


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

nancie said:


> Guys, today I went out to the park in front of my apartment with my boyfriend and Maximus and a huge long leash... It was the best time we ever had! I am so surprised. I couldn't keep it in my hand, but I left the leash on the grass, it was very long so he could run around in the general area but if we needed to, we could step on the leash. I had chicken as well to treat him for recall. I took the ball and we were kind of just playing around with him running around, and then me or my boyfriend would randomly say "Maximus, come!" and then treat him for coming. But I also was specifically paying attention to if people were coming near or other dogs, then as soon as he would look at them, I would interrupt him calling him back, and he'd immediately turn to me and I treated him.. so he sort of lost interest in what was going on around!
> 
> One time I was gonna call him but at the same time my boyfriend kicked the ball and he was in mid-catch when I happened to say it, and he actually stopped chasing the ball (which he was SUPER interested in at the time) to come right back to me. It went so well! I am so surprised I never did this before, and it helps because being in one area with him really helps us bond rather than just taking him around the park and letting him meet other people/dogs to tire him out.
> 
> ...



That is great! Now, just keep doing it. It needs a LOT of reinforcing - like a good 6 months (my current girl was not trust worthy off leash til she was a year old). He is about to enter his teen phase (just a warning) and many, many Goldens suddenly appear to forget everything they have learned. They haven't - they're just being teens and trying to see if they can push the envelope. It usually happens between 6 and 9 months, some are worse than others. But just so you don't panic about it. Just keep doing what you are doing - be ready for him to suddenly start misbehaving and ignoring you. You have to step up the game a bit during this phase, but as long as you keep up the training, it, too, will pass.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Having a pup who is growing through his adolescent phase, it can be 'trying' at times, but staying focused on the reality that it is normal and not an 'act of defiance' and to 'stay the course', stick with the program, makes it a whole lot easier transitioning process. 

https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/i...ent-Dogs-6-Facts-You-Should-Know_21799-1.html


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## eeerrrmmm1 (Apr 15, 2018)

nancie said:


> Guys, today I went out to the park in front of my apartment with my boyfriend and Maximus and a huge long leash... It was the best time we ever had! I am so surprised. I couldn't keep it in my hand, but I left the leash on the grass, it was very long so he could run around in the general area but if we needed to, we could step on the leash. I had chicken as well to treat him for recall. I took the ball and we were kind of just playing around with him running around, and then me or my boyfriend would randomly say "Maximus, come!" and then treat him for coming. But I also was specifically paying attention to if people were coming near or other dogs, then as soon as he would look at them, I would interrupt him calling him back, and he'd immediately turn to me and I treated him.. so he sort of lost interest in what was going on around!
> 
> One time I was gonna call him but at the same time my boyfriend kicked the ball and he was in mid-catch when I happened to say it, and he actually stopped chasing the ball (which he was SUPER interested in at the time) to come right back to me. It went so well! I am so surprised I never did this before, and it helps because being in one area with him really helps us bond rather than just taking him around the park and letting him meet other people/dogs to tire him out.
> 
> ...


That's great! Making yourself more interesting than other people/animals by playing your "run" game is perfect. So is randomly practicing basic recall. 

Honestly, he sounds like he's doing really well for a 6 month old. Keep playing those sorts of games with him and expect that there will probably be days where he may not be in such a listening mood lol. I think variety helps with that though - changing up the training "games" just as you're already doing and I also vary the kind of treats I use from day to day because I've noticed she tends to get less interested in the treats if I've been using the same kind for a few days.


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## Lincgold (May 11, 2018)

Wow sounds like you are on the right track. So happy for you. Take care,


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## Brodys Rockies (Jan 8, 2019)

Excellent read, and your right, timely for all of us...


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## Brodys Rockies (Jan 8, 2019)

Nancie, it sounds like things are looking up...That's great! :smile2: CeeGee posted this, but I felt it was such an excellent read; I wanted to make sure you saw it...

https://nancytanner.com/2016/04/11/the-misunderstanding-of-time/?fbclid=IwAR0xAb-HJsRB0sLNRXVdZjPHryJBjbFpESDNpcrFkBqfZhYvMix8c3kHYbg


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## nancie (Aug 4, 2018)

Hi guys, so today was a bit strange.

I know to keep up with what I’m doing and everything but I just have a question. Today I took him out on a short walk, and we discovered a little gated park near the flat. It’s small and no one and no dogs were in it. So I took him there and we played fetch with sticks for a little while, he was off leash. (It was a smallish space).
After maybe 15 mins, I put him back on the leash and we went walking back to the flat. At first of course, he was still riled up from playing, so I expected lots of stops and starts, then he kind of got in his groove where it was more normal again, but because of this I took a bit of a longer route back home. It may have been a 20 min walk in total. I noticed the more we walked, the more frustrated he got from the stopping and starting (even though it wasn’t that much), so he started bounding off loads more, whining a little bit, and generally being quite naughty. It was almost like he had even more energy than before we went out and played fetch and walked etc. 

Is this from frustration? Should I keep my walks shorter? While he was doing good he even started ignoring the one or two people who we came across on the same road. I was very happy with him. But near the end of the walk where he was practically going mental, he was trying to bounce off to any person he saw in the distance to the point he was willingly choking himself (he doesn’t usually do that). A few times I had stopped dead in my tracks because he was bounding off and almost popped off my shoulder. The person stopped, obviously thought Maximus was mega cute and he decided he’ll just come and pet him, even though he could see Maximus was pulling my shoulder off. Instead of letting the guy pet him though, as soon as the guy made for towards us, I reigned Maximus back in. I told him in a joking manner that he is still in training and the guy understood and wished me luck. Is it alright to do that? I actually was very annoyed at the guy lol but I remember when I never owned a dog and I never thought about these things either. Maximus is EXTREMELY boisterous when he wants to meet people, and I thought to myself that I don’t want to encourage that because some people might be scared or even if they want to see him, he might be way too hyper. I just don’t want him to keep learning that as soon as he sees someone he has to sprint away to them. But I guess I’m also worried I’m being a bit of a bitch or something.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

It is ALWAYS ok to tell people that your pup is in training and not to pet him. They should ask first anyway, but they rarely do. I actually wish I had been more bitchy to people when Rocket was a puppy. Between my ignorance and other people's rudeness, it took a very long time to teach him that it was not ok to pull toward other people and dogs. This question kinda leads into another tier in your training: teaching Maximus to sit nicely for pets from other people. He doesn't get pets if he doesn't sit nicely. It's hard to work on with total strangers, but if you ask some friends that he hasn't met before to help, you can definitely work on it. Sometimes if someone asks to pet him, you can say, "If he sits still you can, please ignore him until he does" and they will usually comply (because afterall, they still get to pet the dog in this scenario). 

It kinda sounds like he just got a bit wound up during your play session and wanted to continue playing instead of walking nicely. I think I would let him play for as long as you can before taking him back home. If you don't have time to let him really burn off steam, then I would suggest getting him to lie down for a minute or two to calm himself down. Also, that place sounds like the perfect place to practice recalls and do general training outside of your home.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

Not sure what you mean by the stopping and starting - do you mean he was stopping to sniff? Or stopping at corners? Stopping to sniff is definitely part of a dog's world and part of a walk. They are finding out what's been happening in the neighbourhood while they've been gone, so if you're trying to discourage that, he might be getting frustrated (not sure if that's what you were doing - just a guess). 



Also wondering - did you have the pocket full of treats? That should keep his attention on you. Walk and treat. It's also okay that when he is riled up, stop. Stop. Make him sit. Make him get his head back on straight. Be calm, let him get calm. Then start to walk again. You shouldn't try to walk when he is jumping out of his skin. He has to learn to be calm on leash. But you need to help him learn how to calm down.


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## CindyD (Nov 15, 2014)

If it makes you feel any better, I got my current golden at 1 year and dealt with the same thing. They are so strong and a harness just lets them throw their weight forward. It was a rough year until my guy got trained and trusted me enough to listen and obey. We still work on it. You got a lot of good advice. I'm pro prong collar as well but also suggest a gentle leader. When my previous golden got into this phase, the gentle leader straightened him out. He hated it so much he tore it up one day but, by then he was a beautiful walker. This is a normal phase and has nothing to do with his respecting of authority. It won't last forever, just focus on keeping him safe. As you are experiencing, they do stupid stuff sometimes.


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## nancie (Aug 4, 2018)

ArkansasGold said:


> It is ALWAYS ok to tell people that your pup is in training and not to pet him. They should ask first anyway, but they rarely do. I actually wish I had been more bitchy to people when Rocket was a puppy. Between my ignorance and other people's rudeness, it took a very long time to teach him that it was not ok to pull toward other people and dogs. This question kinda leads into another tier in your training: teaching Maximus to sit nicely for pets from other people. He doesn't get pets if he doesn't sit nicely. It's hard to work on with total strangers, but if you ask some friends that he hasn't met before to help, you can definitely work on it. Sometimes if someone asks to pet him, you can say, "If he sits still you can, please ignore him until he does" and they will usually comply (because afterall, they still get to pet the dog in this scenario).
> 
> It kinda sounds like he just got a bit wound up during your play session and wanted to continue playing instead of walking nicely. I think I would let him play for as long as you can before taking him back home. If you don't have time to let him really burn off steam, then I would suggest getting him to lie down for a minute or two to calm himself down. Also, that place sounds like the perfect place to practice recalls and do general training outside of your home.


Thank you this is perfect and really helps a lot. You basically answered all of my questions ! That’s a great idea with the sit, I wasn’t sure what to do with that but now I know ?


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## nancie (Aug 4, 2018)

Sweet Girl said:


> Not sure what you mean by the stopping and starting - do you mean he was stopping to sniff? Or stopping at corners? Stopping to sniff is definitely part of a dog's world and part of a walk. They are finding out what's been happening in the neighbourhood while they've been gone, so if you're trying to discourage that, he might be getting frustrated (not sure if that's what you were doing - just a guess).
> 
> 
> 
> Also wondering - did you have the pocket full of treats? That should keep his attention on you. Walk and treat. It's also okay that when he is riled up, stop. Stop. Make him sit. Make him get his head back on straight. Be calm, let him get calm. Then start to walk again. You shouldn't try to walk when he is jumping out of his skin. He has to learn to be calm on leash. But you need to help him learn how to calm down.


Oh no, I meant stop and start due to pulling the leash ? at first it was a normal rate but by the end of the longer walk we did, he was much more rambunctuous than usual and was pulling a lot more/bounding off. I was wondering if this was because I had made the walk too long and he was getting frustrated ? I actually use the sniffing as part of the reward. I let him sniff stuff anyway because I know that’s like the ‘doggy newspaper’, but if he tugs because he wants to smell something badly, I stop, and then when he comes back I lead him back to the smell and let him have at it (provided it’s nothing he can eat). I’m hoping that this way he can learn I’m not an obstacle to what he wants, and I’m happy to help him sniff as long as he doesn’t pull my arm off haha.


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## nancie (Aug 4, 2018)

CindyD said:


> If it makes you feel any better, I got my current golden at 1 year and dealt with the same thing. They are so strong and a harness just lets them throw their weight forward. It was a rough year until my guy got trained and trusted me enough to listen and obey. We still work on it. You got a lot of good advice. I'm pro prong collar as well but also suggest a gentle leader. When my previous golden got into this phase, the gentle leader straightened him out. He hated it so much he tore it up one day but, by then he was a beautiful walker. This is a normal phase and has nothing to do with his respecting of authority. It won't last forever, just focus on keeping him safe. As you are experiencing, they do stupid stuff sometimes.


Thanks! That’s very reassuring ? and your dog sounds so cute!


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## Brodys Rockies (Jan 8, 2019)

nancie said:


> Hi guys, so today was a bit strange.
> 
> After maybe 15 mins, I put him back on the leash and we went walking back to the flat. At first of course, he was still riled up from playing, so I expected lots of stops and starts, then he kind of got in his groove where it was more normal again, but because of this I took a bit of a longer route back home. It may have been a 20 min walk in total. I noticed the more we walked, the more frustrated he got from the stopping and starting (even though it wasn’t that much), so he started bounding off loads more, whining a little bit, and generally being quite naughty. It was almost like he had even more energy than before we went out and played fetch and walked etc.
> 
> Maximus is EXTREMELY boisterous when he wants to meet people, and I thought to myself that I don’t want to encourage that because some people might be scared or even if they want to see him, he might be way too hyper. I just don’t want him to keep learning that as soon as he sees someone he has to sprint away to them. But I guess I’m also worried I’m being a bit of a bitch or something.


*Goldensmom999* posted this in a previous reply. I copied a paragraph from her reply as a reminder to you. It's only been days since you posted your original post. 



> Patience is needed and realizing he's still a baby and will be to some extent until probably 2-3 years old. Some people can't have patience and when their goldens reach the really naughty adolescent stage (which you have not even gotten to yet) the dog ends up in a shelter. Based on the level of frustration and anger at the dog in your post...I recommend you find someone to help you and the dog before he reaches that really naughty stage.


Nancie, there is an old saying, " *A tired dog is a good dog!*" Truer words have never been spoken, especially when it comes to a Golden Retriever, and even more so when the Golden is six months old. :wink2: Maximus is so full of energy, and he needs to expel this energy daily. Honestly, it sounds like 20 minutes of fetch is just getting him warmed up. Extend his play time to around 45 minutes, or until he has had enough vigorous play. When he gets tired, he will let you know. 

When River was around the same age, I purchased a ball throw toy called Chunkit. The Chunkit is a toy with a ball that attaches to a wand. The wand enables you to throw a ball much father than by hand alone. In a controlled area, let the ball rip as many times as he will go after it. Even at six months, you already can see that Maximus is a powerful stong dog. Tire him out by running him good...He will love it, and you will have a much better behaved dog. :grin2: 

As each day, month and year progresses, you and Maximus at times will feel like your experiencing five steps forwards and two or three steps back. The point being, what you're experiencing is not something you or Maximus will resolve/overcome in a few days. Here again, this will require patience, lots of love and time. Don't forget the time part, and whatever you do, don't give up on yourself or Maximus. You will get through this, but it does take time...


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## Angelpetshouston (Jan 25, 2019)

Ive learned to walk my dogs down the middle of our neighborhood street,at my side, so there is less distractions. When we get to a corner I have my dogs sit and wait for my "ok" rekease then they can sniff and/or pee on the corner stop sign or street sign. It is so much more pleasant than being dragged down a sidewalk. If my dog was leash reactive, meaning he became crazy when he sees another dog when on leash, I would turn and walk away the second I saw other dogs while on our walk. I would not even have that battle. Why would you? Its so easy to walk away rather than confront.

I used to be President of the Houston Dog Park Assoc and I learned alot about on and off leash dog behavior then. Dogs on leash that react crazily are saying "stay away!!" Because they are stuck {n leash and can not run and hide if the other dog wants to fight. To dogs, every 
time they meet another dog, it is natural to size up the competition and see who will be the pack leader. Dogs know there is always a chance the other dog will attack. When they are let off leash in a dog park it is no ones territory to protect AND they can run and hide if a larger dog is acting aggressively.


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## sarara (Oct 28, 2018)

marshafuzia said:


> Hi Nancie,
> 
> A 6 month old puppy is just that...a puppy! Outside is a whole new world for him. Don't expect him to respond the same to you outside as he does inside, where there are no distractions. Try working with him in an enclosed yard where there are not so many distractions before you take him out in a larger area with other dogs, cats, squirrels, etc . First of all, I hate harnesses for obedience training or walking. They are great for sled dogs or draft horses. I am sort of an old school trainer. I do believe in corrections. I will use a prong collar. With the " proper " use, a prong is an excellent training collar. A dog will quickly learn that pulling on the leash is not fun or comfortable for him. Unfortunately, prong collars have gotten a really bad rap because so many people do not know how to use them. Or, even how they are supposed to fit. I expect to get a few negative comments about my using a prong. Dog training has come a long way in the last 20 years and there are lots of great new training methods. But, I still believe in some of the " old school " training. My philosophy has always been " Be firm, but be fair ". I do use treats, toys and lots of praise with my dogs as I teach them what I want. But, I also use mild correction when it is needed. The bottom line is; my Goldens are happy and love to work for me. We are successful in obedience, rally, nose work and field competitions. Good luck with your puppy. Are there any dog obedience clubs or groups near where you live? They might be a good resource to get some help.


I trained my parents siberian husky and I completely agree with you about harnesses and the use of proper corrections. Flat collars put all the pressure right over the dog's windpipe and a dog that pulls incredibly strongly on a flat buckle collar can hurt himself (and potentially collapse his windpipe). Flat collars, martingales, and slip leads (even the chain variety) all lead to the unequal distribution of pressure across the font of the neck. Additionally, most dogs have a reflex to "push" through that pressure, aka leash pressure makes them pull harder, unless they are trained to respond to pressure appropriately (similar to horses). A prong collar is one of the very few tools that actually distributes pressure evenly around the neck and is an incredibly effective tool for pressure training (ie pressure means to STOP pulling not pull harder). I recommend working with a trainer who is well versed in prong collars your first time using one, but for many dogs (not all) they are a fantastic tool. Our husky now walks on a flat buckle collar in a heel whenever she is walked and we always get questions from other husky owners as how we trained her not to pull. As long as you use a prong correctly and with proper technique, you will not hurt your dog!


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## nancie (Aug 4, 2018)

Hi guys thank for all your advice.

I know that some of you have really given a lot of information on the prong collar but I think 1. This is actually illegal in the U.K. and 2. While this must be really effective I don’t think I’d be comfortable using it myself. Thanks very much though! 

I noticed that a few of you did mention using harnesses though and that it isn’t really about the harness or the collar, and that it’s more about the technique of stopping when he pulls, turning 180 etc. 

While I did try the collar for a couple of weeks now, he pulls so sharply and he’s literally so strong that I’ve got pain in my hip, my leg, and now my shoulder kills. I’ve tried to anticipate more and try to move him away earlier from distractions if I see them but unfortunately I can’t account for every one and a few times he has seen some little children and he goes crazy to try to meet them. Even though I go to his collar to hold him back and stop him from dragging me there, he is like leaping into the air willingly choking himself. It worries me for him, but also for myself - I certainly had no strength to turn him around after he had spotted them, but I was suddenly worried I couldn’t even hold him back while holding his actual collar. I had treats and usually he cares about them but there are instances that other people are just too interesting no matter if it’s chicken, ham, varied etc. 

Although I have started to say to people ‘sorry he’s in training’ so that they cannot meet him, Maximus notices them from afar before I can even speak to these people, and the children come running before I’ve been able to say anything. Anyway in short it’s a situation I can’t fully control. 

Also, we are in a flat, so we have to come down to our park here to let him pee/poop. We don’t have the luxury of having a private area where he can relieve himself. It’s actually during these moments that most of the distractions happen as I cannot help people who come in and out of the building - otherwise I can obviously control where I walk him so it’s more secluded etc. It has actually affected my relationship with my neighbours a little bit lol.. it has really annoyed me the amount of people who freely come up to see him while Maximus is literally doing a poo, at the top of our grassy area which is Like a little Hill beside the parking lot. They think it’s a GREAT idea to come right to the bottom of it, shout to Maximus and then watch him almost launch me down the hill. Wonderful. Really irritates me lol (it’s not like I’ve let them do this before... plus he’s on a leash now surely they must notice this.. also why do they think it’s fine to visit a dog who is relieving himself with an owner who is clearly in their pj’s waiting to go back inside.. )

Anyway so because of all of these I’m going back to his front clipping harnesses. I know some people here seem to have some inherent issues with just the word ‘harness’ lol but this harness is not the one that clips in the back - I have heard all the stories about dog sleighs etc hence why I deliberately chose front clipping ones. I’ll still be using the normal leash. So as I’ll still be using normal leash and same technique, I don’t see why it wouldn’t be fine.


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## debbie624 (Aug 10, 2018)

I too used a prong with Callie which worked well. We had training classes. But a word of caution. If you or anyone reading this, is using a prong collar, be cautious in not letting your dog play/wrestle with another dog with it on bc it could get tangled and strangle them. When Callie was around 2, she was playing with her BFF and they were wrestling. Her prong collar got caught on her friend's collar and was choking, literally. And I struggled to get it off and had a very hard time doing this. I did get it off but it scared me immensely. From that point on, I always took it off and left her regular collar on to play. What about the gentle leader which goes around the mouth area I believe. It is very gentle, my vet suggested it before but we never ended up using it.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

There is no harm in using a properly fitted harness, I use them on all four of my dogs (two are seniors) and found them very useful in maintaining control while they were learning the skills I wanted them to have.


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## carlielane (Jul 25, 2019)

No harness is going to stop your pup from pulling. walking nicely needs to be taught. Teach your dog to focus on you and he needs to check in with you every once in awhile. If his focus is never on you he will get consumed by his environment and will forget you are there. I would highly recommend watching Kaelin Munkelwitz’s youtube videos on how to train your dog to focus and walk nicely on the leash. If you are persistent, you will see improvement. Designate walks just for this training. While you are walking call their name trying to get his focus. If he doesnt look at you after 3-4 times of you calling him, make him sit and get his focus with a treat. Reward his focus with “yes” and a treat. Then continue walking. This will take time so dont stride for a certain distance. before you open the front door make him sit and focus on you. As you open the door use the command “wait” and then use a release term such as “free” or “okay” to release him from that position. Once you are out the door, make him sit so you can close the door/lock it. Before you begin to walk make him focus on you for a couple seconds mark behavior with “yes” and give him a treat and then begin walking. When training him to walk nicely you need to have his focus 90-100% of the time because it will translate to less when you are on actual walks. You can start focus training in your yard when he isnt pulling. starting outside may be too distracting at first. Hope this helps. This will be frustrating, trust me. Patience is key. He will eventually get better.


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