# My Yorkie Zoey has Chronic Renal Failure



## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

I posted in our thoughts section.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/our-thoughts/110645-zoey-yorkie-going-vet-2.html#post1650707


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Darn. I've been reading about your troubles getting her to eat, I was hoping she was just being a picky girl. Sorry to hear about this prognosis. I hope it is at least manageable.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I'm so sorry to hear this. I will praying that you are able to stabilize her condition. Don't know if you've visited this site, but it has tons of info. DogAware.com Health: Kidney Disease in Dogs


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I am sorry to hear about Zoey. My opinion about CRF is that even though the animal is clinically normal, often giving subcutaneous fluids helps the situation. The issue with CRF is that the kidneys no longer can filter to retain fluid. So the message gets to the brain to drink more. The dog (or cat) drinks more, but can't retain the fluid. I have kept many pets "going" and leading a good life, by supplementing with subcutaneous fluids. Things like Pepcid, azodyl, and epikatin can also help.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Sally's Mom said:


> I am sorry to hear about Zoey. My opinion about CRF is that even though the animal is clinically normal, often giving subcutaneous fluids helps the situation. The issue with CRF is that the kidneys no longer can filter to retain fluid. So the message gets to the brain to drink more. The dog (or cat) drinks more, but can't retain the fluid. I have kept many pets "going" and leading a good life, by supplementing with subcutaneous fluids. Things like Pepcid, azodyl, and epikatin can also help.


Sally's Mom- Thank you so much for responding. I was hoping you would. I am not giving Epikatin (powder right)- It does not come in pill form right? I highly doubt her would eat the food (canned) if the powder was mixed in. My vet said aluminum hydroxide would also absorb the phosphorus. Would my picky eater actually take it? I can pill her and get liquids meds into her without much of a fuss from her- Just lots of dirty looks from her afterwards.

She is taking Pepcid (5 mg daily), Celenia (1/2 tab daily), & Aluminum Hydroxide (25 mg each time she eats) I give them right after she eats otherwise she would not eat. The Acodyl should here here by 3p today. She is eating the Purina NF and I am dressing it up a little with a teaspoon of smelly wet cat food- Warmed the hot distiller water. I am giving her some fish oil mixed into the food to make it smell- Read omegas are good for her to have. Also giving B complex, Vit. E, Vit.C, and flaxseed oil/borage oil- All liquids 1 drop of each daily. She is only drinking distilled water.

My vet does not want to do SQ fluids yet said to give her a little time. I can give the SQ fluids myself- I already know how (gave to my kitten who had FIP for a few days before he refused to eat or drink and then I sent him over the rainbow bridge)

Anything else I can do? I am also giving her other foods if she shows interest. Any food is better than no food right? Should I take her to UPENN to see a nephrologist? Or do I seem to be doing the best things for her right now? 

I am driving myself nuts researching. I have looked at homemaking food for her but most are for 40 pound dogs and she is 5 pounds now. Previously she was 6 pounds back over the summer. The recipes also contain ingredients I know she will not eat. Sorry for rambling on and on.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

IMO, as finicky as it sounds like she is, subcutaneous fluids are in order. No HARM and only benefits....


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

If you wait until she is dehydrated and give her fluids, you are playing "catch up". And she needs to eat something... If you force her to eat the kidney diet and she refuses, she will catabolize her body... Which is harder on the kidneys.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Penn is not a bad place to go for a second opinion.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Looking into UPenn. Waiting for test results on Zoey for last Wed. When they call I am insisting on SQ fluids. If they refuse to the Pet ER we go. 

Thanks so much Sally someone with you experience recommending the SQ fluids I know I am right. 

Zoey is still getting and drinking well for her a least. She has eaten 1 can of the Purina NF since Thursday. She will primarily only eat it in the morning warmed with hot distiller water. I attempt to get her to eat more of it throughout the day but she overall refuses. She will drink some whole milk, liver, bacon, chicken, steak, Vanilla ice cream, sweet potatoes, butter, mayo, etc. Attempting to offer low Phos foods with low or only quality protein. She ate at least 130 calories yesterday in addition to Purina NF. She is having 1-2 loose BMs daily but I think it is mostly from the varied diet she is eating. If she shows interest I give it to her. Any food s better than no food. Right? She hates the meds. but will cooperate.

Is it possible that her breath smells better? I think it does.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I believe it is better for a dog to eat than not eat....


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

MikaTallulah said:


> She will primarily only eat it in the morning warmed with hot distiller water.


What about adding warm chicken broth along with the water?


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Subcutaneous Fluids*

My Sister in New Jersey takes her cat, Jake, 2 or 3 times a week for subcutaneous fluids and he has been maintaining for years.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Sally's Mom said:


> I believe it is better for a dog to eat than not eat....


Thanks. My vet. specifically said to get her to eat. The kidney food would be best but she must eat something.

I posted on a yorkie forum about Zoey and some woman went crazy on me saying I was basically killing her by feeding her anything she would eat. Blah, blah, blah. I felt terrible. This nut job made me cry. When I said then don't answer on my post anymore. She basically said she does not want other people to repeat my mistakes. Grrrrrrr.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

kwhit said:


> What about adding warm chicken broth along with the water?


I just may try this. Hopefully she will drink the low or no sodium broth with the kidney food.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]


Karen519 said:


> My Sister in New Jersey takes her cat, Jake, 2 or 3 times a week for subcutaneous fluids and he has been maintaining for years.


I picked up the SQ fluids today. My vet said for now to only give if she refuses to eat- Primarily breakfast and to use my best judgement. It will be used as a morning pick me up because she sleeps from 11p to 6a. So she needs hydration in the morning especially.

I hope she has great quality of life for several months. I think even a year would be hoping for too much. Her BUN and Creatinine are very high 

Her additional testing came back negative. The vet was really hoping she had a very sneaky infection but she doesn't. He could fix an infection. Not going to dwell. I can only go forward.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I know almost nothing about tripe except that a really picky feeling bad little girl just might like it a lot.

I've known dogs who would eat nothing else that scarfed down tripe.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

coppers-mom said:


> I know almost nothing about tripe except that a really picky feeling bad little girl just might like it a lot.
> 
> I've known dogs who would eat nothing else that scarfed down tripe.


She likes tripe okay. She will eat 1 tablespoon or so and then is done but she is like this with most foods now.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

When Brady had the obstruction, I had a hard time getting him to eat ( while we are trying to diagnose him and when I went to the hospital after his surgery). One thing that helped a little, was I would smear the canned food on top of his paw. He did not like it there, so he would lick some of it up. Just a thought. I know with renal failure, you need to find that window of oppurtunity in the day where they will feel like eating.

Prayers going your way.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

cubbysan said:


> When Brady had the obstruction, I had a hard time getting him to eat ( while we are trying to diagnose him and when I went to the hospital after his surgery). One thing that helped a little, was I would smear the canned food on top of his paw. He did not like it there, so he would lick some of it up. Just a thought. I know with renal failure, you need to find that window of oppurtunity in the day where they will feel like eating.
> 
> Prayers going your way.


She eats best when pressured by the other dogs. She will pause and if I'm not quick 1 of the 4 other will get their heads into the bowl or lick it off my fingers. She has decide she will not eat isolated in the playpen anymore.

Picture this me sitting in the floor with Zoey in front of me on pillows with a towel under her. I put wet food into my palm and onto my fingers and beg her to eat while the other dogs try to get to the food. She won't eat at all right now 1 on 1 it must be in a way that teases the others.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Best wishes... And please use the subcu fluids!


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Sally's Mom said:


> Best wishes... And please use the subcu fluids!


Don't worry I will. The vet said 150 mls of NSS for Zoey because she only weights 5 pounds. I think I will give her it tommorrow morning. She gets very upset if she pees in the house or her crib. Should I be doing it everyday? The vet said to use my best judgement. He said I could do it weekly, every other day, or daily if I felt she needed it. 

She has eaten and drank really well today. She has eaten 1 heaping tablespoon of green beef tripe with 4 heaping tablespoons of Purina NF which is over a 1/4 cup of wet food. Her breath smells so much better than it did before she started treatment. She seems to be in good spirits. Mom is a Med. tech for people so she took a urine specimen to work with her today to test is she has time. She agrees Zoey seems to be feeling much better.

She is constipated right now. No poos for 2 days. Hopefully she goes by tomorrow morning or I will need to give a laxative. She is normally a very regular girl.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Well, I have this theory that if you wait until the pet is not eating, then you are always playing catch up... With my patients, I prefer to stay ahead of the anorexia. Case in point, I saw a dog yesterday that seemed to have pancreatitis and renal disease two weeks ago. I repeated the blood work and although in some ways the pancreas values are better, the renal values are worse. He was a small dog, so I gave him subcu fluids. He started to eat last night and ate great this AM. So today, I had her come in and she is going to give subcu fluids for four or five days in a row, then go to every other day. I never want her dog to get to the point, where we only treat when the dog doesn't eat. It is just my opinion, obviously, there is morally no "right" answer.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Her BUN was 299 and Creatinine was 5.2 last week when her blood was drawn. He will draw her blood again in 2 weeks but did say not to give her SQ fluids the day I bring her for the blood work.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Oh boy,,those are high values... But I always say I do not treat the values, I treat the patient.... I hope you can help her...


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Sally's Mom said:


> Oh boy,,those are high values... But I always say I do not treat the values, I treat the patient.... I hope you can help her...


That is exactly what my vet keeps saying as long as she is her spunky self she is doing good. 

I just took everyone out and when they came in everyone but her walked though the kitchen to the family room but she sat in front of the cookie counter- Something she has not done in a week at least. She must be feeling pretty great today. She ate 10 yogurt drops her favorite thing in the world normally but until today she was refusing even them.

Life is good at this moment


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I'm glad Zoey is feeling better."Her breath is smelling better" even after the tripe? Hooray!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

coppers-mom said:


> I'm glad Zoey is feeling better."Her breath is smelling better" even after the tripe? Hooray!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yes even after eating tripe her breath smells so much better than it did before.

With Sally's Mom's encouragement I did give Zoey her 1st SQ infusion this morning. She was still acting like her spunky self again- Eating and drinking well but I want to stay ahead of potential dehydration than play catch up. She did pee a smaller amount this morning so it may have been needed. She feels like she has gained weight even before the SQ injection. Resisting urges to weight her. I will be strong and not due it til she goes to the vets in 2 weeks.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Good for you!! I think you are really helping Zoey!


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Sally's Mom said:


> ... But I always say I do not treat the values, I treat the patient....





Sally's Mom said:


> Well, I have this theory that if you wait until the pet is not eating, then you are always playing catch up... With my patients, I prefer to stay ahead of the anorexia.


Not to hijack this thread, but...sunny California would be a great place to move your vet practice to. Especially the SF Bay Area. We're very pet friendly here. Just sayin'...


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Thanks, I love the SF area... Haven't been in in thirty or so years, but have great memories!!


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Sally's Mom said:


> Good for you!! I think you are really helping Zoey!


She was still wide awake at 11:30 last nite- Looking over and barking/chasing at the cats especially Tallulah for rubbing on her face. She has always been sleeping by 8pm and woken up for last out at 11pm or so. 

She ate great yesterday- Almost 1/2 of the Purina NF total with a teaspoon of Green Beef Tripe added to breakfast, lunch, and dinner.


Side question my vet told me it may be a good idea to switch my other yorkies over to a lower protein dog food since they are all related. He think she may have Renal Dysplasia- I may have her tested for it when her blood is drawn again (DNA testing)- Not really sure yet. The others will get regular lab work done then too.


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