# Best collar/harness for a determined puller?



## spruce (Mar 13, 2008)

don't know if it's the best option, but the Gentle Leader easy walk harness has enabled me to 
(1) control young Goldies "lunging" behavior when he sees strange dogs, 
(2) control lab's tugging when she is excited (knows there's water ahead, walking with neighbor) 

these two are only in the 60+ pound range, thu


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I swear by the sensation harness.. http://www.softouchconcepts.com/ Both this and the gentle leader harness have the leash connection in the front on the breast bone. Pulling only results in them being turned around. You can read on the site more about how it works and the methods used.


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## S-Dog's Mom (Jan 9, 2009)

I tried the sensation harness on Simon and it didn't work. He was pulling me EVERYWHERE and my hands were KILLING me after just a short walk.

My trainer acted SHOCKED when I suggested a prong collar (I used to need one for my beagle, who never was able to stop following his nose).

Well, after some discussions here, i went out and got one for Simon. I've used it like 4 times, and now he's a different dog on leash! I'm at a point now, where I put it on him, but I clip the leash to his regular collar (I keep both on).

It's important to NOT yank the leash, but otherwise, they learn quickly not to pull...
Prongs look scary, but before I EVER put it on my beagle, I put the thing around my wrist and gave it a sharp tug. Didn't hurt, but definitely got my attention.

Good luck!


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> I swear by the sensation harness.. http://www.softouchconcepts.com/ Both this and the gentle leader harness have the leash connection in the front on the breast bone. Pulling only results in them being turned around. You can read on the site more about how it works and the methods used.


I like the idea of those harnesses in that I couldn't accidentally hurt him by using it incorrectly. I saw that it mentions the application of "gentle" pressure. Does it actually turn the dog around (like a halti would) or does it just apply pressure that's supposed to make the dog _want _to turn? If it's the latter, I'm not sure it would work for him. He's pretty thickheaded. lol.
The last time I had him out for a walk, I was using a leather leash and a choker and he was pulling so hard against that choker that I could actually feel the leash stretching. 



S-Dog's Mom said:


> My trainer acted SHOCKED when I suggested a prong collar (I used to need one for my beagle, who never was able to stop following his nose).


That sounds like Gunner. lol. He keeps his nose to the ground and just wants to GO. Throw in his prey drive for anything that moves and I'm basically at his mercy. :doh:


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

I use an EZ walk harness for both of mine. With Sam, he was a puller/choker and anytime he felt any resistance on the leash tugging around his neck, he'd pull pull pull. The harness has worked wonders for him. Dillon was a different story, and what you described Gunner as. He walked fine on a leash, but if he saw something that interested him (cat, bird, person) he knew he could pull me and he is VERY strong. I decided to try the harness on him to see if it gave me better control on those times he decided to pull me somewhere and its awesome!! He is about 72 lbs, and very very strong, but with the harness on, even if he tries to pull, I am easily able to control it and he stops pulling once he realizes he ain't goin anywhere lol


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## JayTee (Sep 4, 2008)

Hello, I have a question for those who have the gentle leader. Marley is still learning on it but he continuously bites and tries to chew at it. He builds up a ton of saliva and it seems to drive him crazy. Maybe I just don't have it on right? I made sure it is a far away from the mouth as possible but he still chews, any ideas?


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

JayTee said:


> Hello, I have a question for those who have the gentle leader. Marley is still learning on it but he continuously bites and tries to chew at it. He builds up a ton of saliva and it seems to drive him crazy. Maybe I just don't have it on right? I made sure it is a far away from the mouth as possible but he still chews, any ideas?


The Gentle Leader nose strap should be fitted up just below the eyes and actually behind the back of the mouth. Is that where you have it fitted?


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

A halter style leader is great for redirecting a dog's attention to you, but I always recommend treating leash problems as training issues, not equipment issues. Can you go back to square one and look at interrupting Gunner when he's pulling and rewarding him when he's behaving properly?


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## JayTee (Sep 4, 2008)

mylissyk said:


> The Gentle Leader nose strap should be fitted up just below the eyes and actually behind the back of the mouth. Is that where you have it fitted?



Hi, yes it is positioned there but he still tries to get at it. Maybe he just needs some time to get used to it?


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

tippykayak said:


> A halter style leader is great for redirecting a dog's attention to you, but I always recommend treating leash problems as training issues, not equipment issues. Can you go back to square one and look at interrupting Gunner when he's pulling and rewarding him when he's behaving properly?


What if you are unable to interrupt a dog when pulling at another dog/person? Tysen actually spits treats out and could care less about tennis balls (his favorite toy). Maybe I should try a stuffed toy.


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## cinnamonteal (May 16, 2008)

I've used both the gentle leader and the easy walk harness. Both were suggested by our trainer when my husband broke his foot and Caleb was a rather unruly 6 month old. The easy walk harness is nice because you can put it on without any training and it helps right away. The gentle leader give you much more control, but you need to introduce it slowly. Put it on for a second, feed treats, take it off. Repeat increasing the amount of time it's on. Work up to feeding an entire meal. Once he has a nice, positive association with it, then you can start taking him out for walks with it. Otherwise, he'll try to pull it off, rub his face on the ground, etc.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Bock said:


> What if you are unable to interrupt a dog when pulling at another dog/person? Tysen actually spits treats out and could care less about tennis balls (his favorite toy). Maybe I should try a stuffed toy.


When I say "interrupt," I mean popping the leash, touching the dog on the side or neck, or using a vocal sound. I don't mean distracting him with something that may or may not be higher value than greeting a person or a dog. You create your ability to interrupt in less distracting training situations, first when the dog is indoors and not paying attention but doesn't have anything truly awesome to chase, then in the backyard where there are a few more. Then, it hopefully transfers out into the world. 

Just as a clarification, when I say "popping," I mean jangling the dog's tags, not yanking on his neck. And touching the dog on the neck or side isn't a jab like you see on the dog whisperer. I'll lay an open hand on the side of the neck or the ribcage (whatever's closer) and use my vocal interruption.

I'd come at this particular problem from both sides, both as a leash behavior issue and as a greeting behavior issue. I'd practice greetings over and over with people and dogs I know so that Tysen learns that pulling towards a person makes you walk away, but that calm interest may allow him to get closer, always at your discretion. As you work on your interrupting skills, a halter might be very helpful, since it'll turn his head and therefore his attention back to you when he tries to pull.

If you can get him lots of play time with other dogs, it'll help lessen his interest in dogs you pass on the street, since he won't have that unfulfilled need for socializing with his species.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

tippykayak said:


> A halter style leader is great for redirecting a dog's attention to you, but I always recommend treating leash problems as training issues, not equipment issues. Can you go back to square one and look at interrupting Gunner when he's pulling and rewarding him when he's behaving properly?


No, I agree -- this definitely isn't an equipment issue, especially since he used to walk just fine for me. He's always pulled a little bit, but it was never a problem and I could easily interrupt him.

The problem started one evening when I took him for his walk and he saw a rabbit. He took off after it and luckily the rabbit ran under a bush and Gunner stopped when he lost sight of it (after dragging me for about 90 feet) otherwise he would have gotten away from me. I couldn't have stayed on my feet much longer. Ever since then, it's like something clicked in his little brain and he realized that I wasn't _really_ in control and he can do what he pleases. It's like he's on a mission to get somewhere, fast. His nose is to the ground and he just wants to GO. 

I've tried stopping to interrupt him and get him to focus on me, with no success at all. At best, I can get him to glance at me for a split second and that's it. I'm used to his typical GSD "drive" but not to this extent. 

If I'm going to walk him at all, I need something (if such a thing exists) that's going to give me complete and total control of him while we're trying to work out the issues. At this point, I wouldn't walk out the front door with him unless I'm absolutely sure that I have complete control.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

LifeOfRiley said:


> If I'm going to walk him at all, I need something (if such a thing exists) that's going to give me complete and total control of him while we're trying to work out the issues. At this point, I wouldn't walk out the front door with him unless I'm absolutely sure that I have complete control.


That makes sense to me. You need a practical solution to the current issue while you work on retraining. In that situation, I would favor a halter. It turns the dog's face and eyes back up the leash to the person, so it's a natural interrupting and redirecting motion. It'll also break his association that he can pull you, since they simply can't with a halter. Prongs and chokes work more by making the dog uncomfortable, so I wouldn't go in that direction.

Try to acclimate him to the halter with cookies for a few days before you actually take him out on it so he doesn't get upset by the strange sensation.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

JayTee said:


> Hi, yes it is positioned there but he still tries to get at it. Maybe he just needs some time to get used to it?


Yes, I agree with that.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

tippykayak said:


> That makes sense to me. You need a practical solution to the current issue while you work on retraining. In that situation, I would favor a halter. It turns the dog's face and eyes back up the leash to the person, so it's a natural interrupting and redirecting motion. It'll also break his association that he can pull you, since they simply can't with a halter. Prongs and chokes work more by making the dog uncomfortable, so I wouldn't go in that direction.
> 
> Try to acclimate him to the halter with cookies for a few days before you actually take him out on it so he doesn't get upset by the strange sensation.


Okay, when you say "halter", you mean the Halti or the Gentle Leader? Not a harness? (Just want to make sure I'm picturing the same thing.)

And no, making him uncomfortable is the last thing I want to do. He doesn't particularly like going for walks anyway (he'd rather be chasing a ball in the yard) so making it unpleasant for him would be a real bad idea, I think. And the chokers don't work with him, anyway. He was wearing one when he dragged me all the way down our driveway. :doh:


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

LifeOfRiley said:


> Okay, when you say "halter", you mean the Halti or the Gentle Leader? Not a harness? (Just want to make sure I'm picturing the same thing.)


Yup, the "halti" or whatever brand floats your boat is what I'm referring to. I would NOT put a harness on a problem puller, since that fully empowers him to drag you around. It's like outfitting him as a sled dog. I know there are harnesses with attachment points on the front, which wouldn't cause that problem, but I still prefer the halter type.

Your central problem is that your dog isn't paying attention to you, right? If he pulls on a halter, his head swings back around to look up the leash at you, and it's a great moment to reengage with him and get him back to walking _with_ you, at which point you can reward him. You want to reestablish communication so walking is a team effort, rather than a pulling match.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

tippykayak said:


> Yup, the "halti" or whatever brand floats your boat is what I'm referring to. I would NOT put a harness on a problem puller, since that fully empowers him to drag you around. It's like outfitting him as a sled dog. I know there are harnesses with attachment points on the front, which wouldn't cause that problem, but I still prefer the halter type.
> 
> Your central problem is that your dog isn't paying attention to you, right? If he pulls on a halter, his head swings back around to look up the leash at you, and it's a great moment to reengage with him and get him back to walking _with_ you, at which point you can reward him. You want to reestablish communication so walking is a team effort, rather than a pulling match.


Yeah, we looked at some harnesses over the weekend and they just don't seem like they'd work for him. From what I could tell, they seem to apply "gentle pressure" to discourage pulling. LOL. Gunner probably wouldn't even feel it and if he did, he'd ignore it.

I do like the Haltis. I tried one years ago with Cooper and it worked like a charm, until he wriggled his way out of it. I don't think I had it adjusted properly and geeze, that was more than ten years ago - back then, they didn't have the "backup" latch that hooks to their regular collar. Now that they have that, I'd feel much better about using one.
I think we'll pick one up this weekend and give it a try. I don't know if he'll tolerate that strap across his nose, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I think I'll work with him for a while in the yard, before we venture beyond the confines of the fence! LOL. Wish me luck! And thanks for the advice!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

LifeOfRiley said:


> Yeah, we looked at some harnesses over the weekend and they just don't seem like they'd work for him. From what I could tell, they seem to apply "gentle pressure" to discourage pulling. LOL. Gunner probably wouldn't even feel it and if he did, he'd ignore it.
> 
> I do like the Haltis. I tried one years ago with Cooper and it worked like a charm, until he wriggled his way out of it. I don't think I had it adjusted properly and geeze, that was more than ten years ago - back then, they didn't have the "backup" latch that hooks to their regular collar. Now that they have that, I'd feel much better about using one.
> I think we'll pick one up this weekend and give it a try. I don't know if he'll tolerate that strap across his nose, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I think I'll work with him for a while in the yard, before we venture beyond the confines of the fence! LOL. Wish me luck! And thanks for the advice!


Good luck! And if you're worried about his tolerating the strap, try it in the house for a few days for a few minutes at a time without attaching a leash and feed him lots of treats while he has it on. If you create a few positive associations with it before you're actually restraining him with it, he may tolerate it more easily on walks.


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## Dog (Sep 26, 2006)

Very useful post thank you.

I just bought a Halti online (Amber is 70.4lb I hope size 3 will be alright): 
http://www.lamp-post.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=CH16858

Amber is fine on her walks with my daughter but *she always pulls and scavenges with my husband only*. We have no idea why. 

I will introduce the Halti slowly for a few minutes at a time as advised and see how she gets on :crossfing.


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

tippykayak said:


> Good luck! And if you're worried about his tolerating the strap, try it in the house for a few days for a few minutes at a time without attaching a leash and feed him lots of treats while he has it on. If you create a few positive associations with it before you're actually restraining him with it, he may tolerate it more easily on walks.


Good idea. He's a fussy kind of guy and once he decides that he doesn't like something, it can be a real treat trying to change his mind. We'll definitely take it slow and show him that the Halti means nothing but good things for him. 
I think I'll break out the hot dogs for this one.


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## Lisa_and_Willow. (Dec 18, 2007)

I used a Halti on Diesel when he was about 1 1/2 years old and much like Gunner became aware of his own power.

He hated it but it worked well and not letting him get away with anything so I could train him better. He did manage to get it off once by running his head in the grass but this was when he was off leash and still had it on.

They work great but I like to think of it as a tool rather than a solution. 

Good luck!


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Lisa_and_Willow. said:


> I used a Halti on Diesel when he was about 1 1/2 years old and much like Gunner became aware of his own power.
> 
> He hated it but it worked well and not letting him get away with anything so I could train him better. He did manage to get it off once by running his head in the grass but this was when he was off leash and still had it on.
> 
> ...


Well I'm glad we're not the only ones who have had to go back and do a little more training. It's a little embarrassing since Gunner's six years old now. I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing that he's just NOW realized that he can have his way. 

And yes, I like to see the Halti as a temporary aid, too. I know of many people who use them as a permanent solution and I don't necessarily see a problem with it, if it works for them. I just don't like the idea of completely and permanently relying on equipment. Equipment can fail and they can still act up with or without it, so I don't (personally) see it as a substitute for reliable training.

I just need to use it long enough to convince Gunner that his ability to pull me was a fluke and that Mama's still in control! :


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