# Canine Compulsive Disorder in 11 month old



## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

What are your qualms over trying the Prozac at this age?


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## writedog (Oct 4, 2019)

I guess I don't want to try it outright because he's young and it could cause him side effects that might affect him in adverse ways. I will, if necessary, but wondering if there are other options to consider that I haven't learned about yet. 

I just know it's a very tough condition to treat and using Prozac might not help. And then we have to keep trying different medicines and he gets older and older and his behavior might become even more challenging. Again, I'm used to high-energy Goldens, but not like this. It's really unsettling to watch. 

I heard about CBD oil but the vet and the trainer said it's not really worth trying.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Have you considered sending him to a *GOOD*, field dog trainer? Maybe a change of environment and serious, high energy training can help drain some energy/anxiety. Who knows he might be a rock star and find his place in the world or the trainer says no way and wants you to take him home. But could be a good evaluator from a very different perspective. Either way it will give everyone a break to rethink the issue. 
I'm not against the meds route but do agree he is very young to face a lifetime of meds. I had a dog with anxiety, not like this but she was on meds and it was really hard to keep the balance right so she wasn't sleeping all the time but enough to keep the anxiety down. BUT she wasn't a puppy, just a rescue afraid of the world.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Have you tried impulse control games with him? My girl is moderate energy but she paces and chases her tail and has trouble settling down but when you put her to work she excels. Have you given him a job?


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Is he reactive or dog aggressive? If no, have you considered taking him to the dog park to get an hour of intense play in? 

Do you know what triggers his anxiety? My older girl has BAD anxiety. Like when we first got her she would freeze on walks when another person or animal appeared. Her anxiety has reduced over the years as we do more and more with her and make it positive experiences. Though she still gets triggered by the smell of smoke/burnt food which 100% of the time sends her under the bed/table in hiding and shaking for at least 2 hours. She also gets anxious in crates, so she is never crated alone any more. If I have to crate her, I stick her in with her 'little' sister.


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

I'm wondering what other manifestations he has, for the vet to diagnose CCD and tell you that nothing could be done about it. Pacing, tail-chasing and an occasional poop in the crate doesn't seem substantial enough for that type of diagnosis.



My current Golden paced continuously at that age, and chased his tail. He was also a bit noise-sensitive to certain (high-pitched) noises and hated the car. We dealt with the tail-chasing by stopping him every time he tried to grab his tail, and having him do some obedience commands (as a game) instead. Sometimes we would redirect to a game of tug. For the pacing, I installed a cushion in our sitting room, where we spend our evenings, and taught him a "settle" command, which basically meant: stop it and go to the cushion. It would break the cycle. As for the car, I used Adaptil for a while, to calm him down. He still doesn't like the car much, but jumps in willingly. He sometimes whines a bit on longer journeys, but doesn't drool and isn't sick. I no longer use Adaptil.



He's three years old now, and while he still paces occasionally, he's learned to settle down as soon as I give the command. He hasn't chased his tail in a very long time - it only took a week or two of consistent effort to break that particular habit. He's no longer noise-sensitive at all. He does get a bit "hyper" when we have visitors, but can easily be calmed down.


He does, however, have a busy and rewarding life. I wonder if part of your dog's problem might not be boredom. My dog gets long (one hour plus) off-leash walks almost daily, gets three agility training sessions per week, competes in agility trials at least one weekend a month, and joins in a lot of family activities at other times (gardening, visits to friends' homes, etc.). In winter he goes to weekly rally or competitive obedience classes as well. I can't over-emphasize the importance of training for Goldens. They were bred to be working dogs and they need to use their brains. Your dog seems to be getting a lot of crate time for such a young, active animal. Have you actually taught him to lie down? If not, I suggest that you try it.


How was he as a young puppy? Did you choose him, or did the breeder choose him for you? If the former, what drew you to this particular puppy? If the latter, what guidelines did you give to the breeder - in other words, what type of dog did you say you wanted?


I'll be very interested to hear about his other symptoms. I do hope you can find a solution to this.


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## 4goldengirls (Jun 10, 2014)

ceegee said:


> I'm wondering what other manifestations he has, for the vet to diagnose CCD and tell you that nothing could be done about it. Pacing, tail-chasing and an occasional poop in the crate doesn't seem substantial enough for that type of diagnosis.
> 
> 
> 
> My current Golden paced continuously at that age, and chased his tail. He was also a bit noise-sensitive to certain (high-pitched) noises and hated the car. We dealt with the tail-chasing by stopping him every time he tried to grab his tail, and having him do some obedience commands (as a game) instead. Sometimes we would redirect to a game of tug. For the pacing, I installed a cushion in our sitting room, where we spend our evenings, and taught him a "settle" command, which basically meant: stop it and go to the cushion. It would break the cycle. As for the car, I used Adaptil for a while, to calm him down. He still doesn't like the car much, but jumps in willingly. He sometimes whines a bit on longer journeys, but doesn't drool and isn't sick. I no longer use Adaptil.


I'm not an expert but agree that there doesn't seem to be enough substantial issues for that diagnosis to be made.

I also agree that teaching him "settle" should definitely help him along. It is as though he doesn't know how to turn himself off and needs your help.

My newest who I got at 20 months of age in June has on a few occasions needed a reminder to "settle". In fairness to my own dog, it has only happened when he hadn't gotten enough exercise to burn off his high energy level. If physical activity is limited, I will do obedience lessons with him. Works like a charm.

It sounds as though the dog needs his confidence level built up as well as an outlet for the energy. If you can't always provide the physical exercise, how about brain games that make him think?


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## writedog (Oct 4, 2019)

I have not. But thank you for that insight!


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## writedog (Oct 4, 2019)

Oops. I'm new to the forum so I'm not sure how this all works with multiple responses. I think I responded in the wrong place.

Thank you to everyone. This is very helpful!

Basically, the vet confirmed anxiety. And I was told by the dog trainer that he has CCD when he was 5 months old after she spent time with him and watched his behaviors. At that time she suspected it, and now he has many of the symptoms so it's what it is. 

He does need a LOT of exercise, but I have to say that I feel like we do a really good job for people who work full time. The vet said we've done more than most people and all we can for him, physically. 

Someone asked me if we chose him or the breeder did. The breeder did and I put in my application that I wanted as laid back a dog as possible. The most laid back one went to a special needs family, which I understand, but he has always been the furthest thing from laid back and I let the breeder know all along. She says no other dog is like him in the litter. So it makes me wonder what is going on. I know they were an active litter but no one else is having these issues, apparently.

As for how he was as a young puppy, the same way but smaller, basically. He's gotten worse over the past month. 

For example, my friend who watched him for us in August and is a vet tech said he's got "faulty wiring" in his brain. He's just "not right." Like I said, I get Goldens and I've had them for most of 20 years. They typically have an attachment to us but he seems not able to be "present." His mind is racing when he's out of the crate. At least, that's my opinion.

I wish I didn't have to crate him but he just can't be trusted to not eat the couch or even the walls. He eats everything he can.

He doesn't hate his crate, at least that we can tell. He goes in with some prodding. He doesn't cry in there unless it's a time when he sees us and wants to be with us. 

But part of me worries that his anxiety is because he is cooped up in there many hours in a day. But again, I do have him out at intervals all day and he gets a lot of exercise.

He probably is bored, but unfortunately, we were completely honest in our application for him when we explained our lifestyle. While we have 3 kids, they don't play with him because one of them is in college and the others are pretty much afraid of him. He is big now and started humping and getting rough, not aggressive. He hasn't really bonded with anyone in our family. And believe me, we've given him ample opportunity. He likes us but not sure if he can bond.

Yes, we've taught him "lie down" and he knows it. We started doing "sit" when he's tail chasing yesterday and it seems to distract him. 

Also, he's not dog aggressive. But I don't know what reactive is. He likes all dogs and people but he's just not "engaged" with them really. Kind of like he's half there. 

Other than pacing, tail chasing and panting, he doesn't show any other typical signs of anxiety like shaking or barking. In fact, he's never really barked. We heard him do it three separate times, just one bark. 

I have taken him to a dog park, as someone suggested, but the last time was not good. He got ganged up on and it was scary. He didn't know how to really fight back but he was overpowered. And I didn't want to risk it again. Male dogs don't like him but that could be because he's still not neutered. He's a nice dog to others for the most part.

I have not given him a job. Not sure what a job would be. Let me know whomever suggested that. Thanks!

I think that's about it. Thanks again!


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

Has your breeder tested her girl and the stud for NCL? 

http://www.caninegeneticdiseases.net/GoldenNCL/I 

I did read that you said your dog has been like this from the beginning but this has been recently recognized and some breeders and vets may not know about this disease.

"Typically the first sign of a problem is a loss of coordination. Affected dogs may have difficulty climbing stairs or stumble, particularly when excited. Behavior changes often follow with affected dogs becoming anxious and agitated. They may pace or circle for prolonged periods and forget previously learned behaviors. They may show compulsive behaviors and have occasionally become aggressive."


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

My advice is listen to your vet! 

If in doubt seek another Professional opinion where the person that examines does so in person, and not over the net.


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## Peri29 (Aug 5, 2017)

Just on a similar post, I have written about blood test.Thyroids, adrenal glands and trying to chase the tail is a symptom for me might be a BRAIN/cervical issue or even previous infection unnoticed during puppyhood.Even a trauma during birth for which we cannot blame the breeder. 
AFTER RULING OUT THE ONES ABOVE:
However, may I suggest the following aswell ? These we tried with a similar rescued dog and it worked more and more each time. At the moment, he lives his happily after with a sister & brother. Still an anxious dog but since he feels SAFE with the others,it is very manageable. 

1) If he does not have any aggression towards any other dogs, would you host a dog for a certain time at your place? Maybe fostering a calm dog in need. The foster dog shall be max 5 years older than your dog , medium or same size so that they can play together,some wrestling etc. A second dog will open another dimension for him and his stimuli will change. And dogs they mimic certain behaviours. Dog park, day care is different, hosting a dog is different. 
In case you decide,they shall be introduced to eachother in an appropriate manner which we will talk about later. 

2) Can you take a couple of days off and CHANGE ENVIRONMENT. With the mentioned dog, we went to a lake house. He was stunned also shocked,beautiful nature. New scents , new people. 2nd time,we again took another calm dog with us. And it was snowing. What a blast it was for him.  His behaviours started to change after the 1st day. 

3) Opposite of 1st solution. If you have a petfriendly friend you trust;
3.a have your dog hosted by them and ask them to observe and videotape( a friend without a dog). However, they shall play with him, give him treats, walk around etc and sleep with him in the same room even bed.

3.b Same of 3.a this time with a household who has a calm dog. 

Unfortunately,sometimes rescue dogs are very traumatic and there are very standard dog trainers around. Desperateness to rehabilitate and home a dog makes us come up with solutions which even work much better than of a trainer.


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## writedog (Oct 4, 2019)

Thank you for this! I've never heard of the disease but will keep it in mind. His coordination is the same as it's always been, so far. I will keep an eye on it though.


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## writedog (Oct 4, 2019)

Thank you, Peri29. I still don't know how to respond to one person... Anyway, those are great ideas!! We are actually watching our neighbor's 8 year old golden this weekend. Our dog is somewhat better when she's around, for sure. We also had him out all morning and it took him on a 2 mile walk and now he's FINALLY tired. But he was really anxious during the walk because I went on a new route and was pulling me constantly.


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## LynnC (Nov 14, 2015)

writedog said:


> I still don't know how to respond to one person...


You just go to the “Quote” button on the bottom of the members post you would like to respond to. Another page opens with the persons post in “”. You can then type you’re response below that quote. Or...... if you’re using Mobile View on your phone you check the upper right box in that members post and you will now see “” on the top banner. Hit the “” button and another page will open with that members post in “” and you can type your response below it. Hope this helps


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## Jessjack (Aug 11, 2019)

Is there such a thing as a dog neurologist? If so, perhaps a brain scan of some kind or EEG would give you some answers about his brain. 
He sounds very busy and very frustrated. It must be torture for him to be crated so much. I really think that you should at least try some medication. Then perhaps he could get some good training that will redirect his energy.


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## Peri29 (Aug 5, 2017)

writedog said:


> Thank you, Peri29. I still don't know how to respond to one person... Anyway, those are great ideas!! We are actually watching our neighbor's 8 year old golden this weekend. Our dog is somewhat better when she's around, for sure. We also had him out all morning and it took him on a 2 mile walk and now he's FINALLY tired. But he was really anxious during the walk because I went on a new route and was pulling me constantly.


These type of solutions did not work %100 for any dog but at least they became tolerable and they could be homed.
Just one thing;
If you walked two dogs together, it is very normal that one or both of them are competing with eachother ( not in a bad way) but one or both can become faster as if they or one of them is trying to reach the destination faster. 
This is not always the case but it happens a lot to me even between the siblings.
I would suggest videotaping them together and after the neighbour dog left in order to show to the behaviourist.
However, health check up is a MUST. 
All will be fine


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## Steller01 (Mar 28, 2019)

In terms of the pica/compulsive eating: my girl had occasional gut problems when she was younger (6 months to 2 yrs) and was diagnosed with low B12, problems with lower gut absorbtion. She ate things--e.g. all manner of grass and sticks (if outside), would even lick the walls and eat the fringe of the carpet (if inside) when her gut seemed to be bothering her. She was noticably better when I watched her diet (right now feeding prescription Royal Canin), gave daily probiotics and B12 shots or oral supplements. By noticably better I mean that she ate less junk, was better able to settle rather than pace. Long walks also seemed to help when her gut was bothering her. I recall some long late night walks in the dead of winter while she grabbed mouthfuls of dry, frozen grass. 



Although there is almost certainly more going on with your boy, you might want to look into gut problems as one a possible cause of compulsive chewing and eating.


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## writedog (Oct 4, 2019)

Hi! I just wanted to thank everyone again for all your great information. I think you helped inspire a great change! I'm not kidding. I read the posts and was watching our neighbor's dog all weekend. We had our dog out of the crate for the first time for the entire day on Saturday with our neighbor's older dog and he came with us to a youth soccer game. Then he was able to be out of his crate all day on Sunday.

While some of it could have been influenced by the dog we were watching, I've never seen such a turnaround in him. He was able to be out of the crate the whole weekend during the day and didn't try to eat anything, actually LIED down and SLEPT outside of his crate on the floor! He wasn't constantly pacing!!!

I do think whomever said it was right that he really has more energy than I was understanding even with all the walks we gave him and we needed to channel it better. 

Ironically, I wanted to blame the crate and his fear of it. But today I was able to work at home and he was out of the crate the whole time (our friend's dog went home around noon) but he was still really good without her at our house. 

So it was quiet and I wanted to make sure he wasn't quietly ingesting something so I went downstairs to check on him (I can hear everything from where I work) and saw him INSIDE his crate with the door open. This was a first! And then it happened again! There goes the theory that he's afraid of his crate! 

Anyway, just that he made progress for three days in a row makes me so happy. He still has a ton of energy but I think him being confined for several hours at a time (but no more than 4, honestly) and not by our sides, made him anxious and then once he came out of the crate he was a Tazmanian devil, basically, even with walks, for whatever period he was out. 

Now he lies down more easily and is overall more calm and like a typical dog. I think my neighbor's dog helped but I really think just being out of the crate more and that we risked it for longer periods this weekend, is what really did it. 

I seriously cannot believe it. THANK YOU!!


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I would like to share my experience. I know of a field dog who was brought to a veterinary behaviorist. He was put on Paxil and the owner was told that he was reactive and needed extensive behavior modification. To make a long story short this dog is now off Paxil and is one of the happiest dogs that I have seen. I am not criticizing the behaviorist, I liked her. I do think that many people are not familiar with the energy level of some field bred Goldens. This dog is happy and no longer reactive. Exercise, attention, training and a job is the key.



See my thread on Riley.


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## Ohiodogs (Oct 8, 2019)

It sounds like you're at a good resolution- I want to add a few things in case others come across this post while searching about compulsive behaviors.

A question I would have asked earlier on in the series of posts: Is the pacing a specific, rhythmic always-the-same pattern or just more general? How hard is it to stop the tail chasing? What happens right before those behaviors occur?

While a general practice vet is legally able to diagnose behavior problems - often a specialist has a better skill set for this kind of thing. In humans, my understanding, is that mental health diagonsis are different than some other physical health conditions that are more obviously yes/no. And for dog's that's very much the case too. As others shared - sometimes things like pacing may be related to pain - though if we see a very rhythmic, predictable pattern (same number of steps again and again or same walking path) then likely more behavioral - though that may also all go together. 

There are a lot of things that go on the line between neurology specialist vets and behavior vets. The two have worked together for one of my dogs. The neuro vet had some of the knowledge and the behavior vet had different knowledge that together has helped us get my dog to be comfortable. 

There are medications that can be used. My understanding is that fluoxetine typically is not one of those. It often takes 6-8 weeks to be "on board" and even then, it often is used in combination with other things. My experience has been it's much better to work with a vet who specializes in behavior than a general practice vet. One of my frustrations in the dog training industry is owners and general practice vets who want to use meds as a "last resort" rather than an early intervention. It's tricky - we don't want to be giving medications to dogs who do not need it. Side effects are a real concern (though low for most of the meds commonly used). But damage to the human-animal bond is also a concern and a dog who is struggling on a day to day basis isn't great either. We know how much chronic stress can impact human health - and we can only assume some of this is likely the same for our dogs. 

Genetics are a tricky thing. I have met dogs that have significant behavior problems even with the breeder being careful and the family doing everything "right." 

Daycare is not something I would typically recommend in this situation. There is a lot of research in humans about types of exercise that is useful for anxiety and it's not usually something like "go to a theme park for 6-8 hours a few times a week." There's usually components about short bursts of things that are high intensity and more moderate but steady exercise options. I would not feel bad about not having daycare as an option in your situation! For families who have the budget for it- a dog walker option is often a better choice for these types of dogs. Note - that you get different messages from those in the daycare industry - and there may be some of those people here - I wish we had some data on these things rather than different variations of anecdotal experiences!). 

With my personal dogs (field type goldens), I'll admit I don't really do leash walks other than to expose them to the world ( a few times a month once they're adults). Most of our exercise is training games in the house or at the park (on leash) or taking them to safe places for off leash hikes. Leash walks just don't get my dogs tired unless I go for a long time (not fun for me), fast (really not fun for me), or on challenging terrain (not available in my part of the state). It may be good to do your walks but think about other ways to challenge his body (in puppy safe ways).

I hope you get a good resolution - remember there will be good days and more tricky days. Take a few photos on the good days to remind you that those exist and we'll want to shift towards more of those every week and every month.


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## writedog (Oct 4, 2019)

Thank you so much, Ohiodogs. Very helpful! Just a quick question, what makes a golden a field dog??


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

writedog said:


> Thank you so much, Ohiodogs. Very helpful! Just a quick question, what makes a golden a field dog??


My answer is going to be that all Golden's are field type dogs. I also really only look at Golden's that I feel meet my criteria, so that is a biased opinion. I believe very few couldn't achieve a hunt title, but there are those that will disagree with me. I also own "field Golden's". Mine are field trained. It is truly determined by their breeding. If you are comfortable posting his pedigree, or letting us know where he came from we could tell you if he is "field bred". There are different extents of field breeding, but if he has some high energy titled field dogs, or you know that there are hunting dogs in his pedigree it may help you determine the level of exercise he could require. 

If you don't want to publicly post his breeding you can PM me and I will give you my opinion. I feel more confident about my ability to judge a field pedigree then a general pedigree. Most agility or performance dogs also have some field breeding in there.

I'm also up on NCL, so I could tell you if I think that is even a consideration.


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## Ohiodogs (Oct 8, 2019)

writedog said:


> Thank you so much, Ohiodogs. Very helpful! Just a quick question, what makes a golden a field dog??


Good point -- there's a lot of variation in how terms may be used. My intent was to say that my dogs have parents, grandparents, etc who compete/d in hunt tests/field trials. Stereotypically considered more energetic type dogs.


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## writedog (Oct 4, 2019)

I didn't hear from the breeder that there was any field work done or hunting with her dogs. I just know the sire had more energy than the dam. Don't even have his pedigree registered or anything and don't know where to find it. 

But honestly my gut at this point is that he is high energy and his symptoms of CCD come out as a result of not being stimulated enough/bored. And I have never had such a job in my whole time of golden ownership. 

Unfortunately, he tried to destroy his first piece of furniture today. I had him out all day except when I had to leave to run errands, I walked him 3 miles in 2 separate walks. While he was out, I heard noise downstairs and saw him eating the knob off of our TV cabinet. So not what I was hoping to find but I get it that he needs to learn. 

But it's just frustrating that he's orally fixated with pica. My first golden had it for his whole life and it was maddening at times. He ate just about everything (socks, ornaments, tissues were his favorite, napkins, etc). It's stressful always fearing you'll find him eating something he shouldn't be (either through sneaking items or outright eating furniture).


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

I think it is clear that walking is not tiring him out. He needs to be able to get off leash, run around, sniff, and be a dog. Walking at a human's pace for 3 miles is probably incredibly boring for him. Dogs move at a much faster pace than a walking human. He is under-exercised and under stimulated. Get him out and doing things. Sign him up for a class where he can use his brain to figure things out and not be bored.

Not saying you need to take him on mile long runs every day, but even just taking him somewhere he can run around and play fetch for 30 minutes could be enough to help him feel settled when he's back in the house.

Don't leave him out of the crate when you are out of the house. He can't be trusted. 

Clarifying question: Is he actually EATING and swallowing the things he is chewing? Or is he just chewing & tearing things up?


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## jomiel (Feb 15, 2019)

My puppy eats everything, he especially loves tissue, napkins, toilet paper, paper, grass, leaves, pine cones, wood chips, plastic packaging, and disposable gloves. He likes to chew on kickboards, cabinets, computer chair casters - really just anything that he could get his mouth on, lol. I think it's just a golden thing and not pica, though individual dogs seem to have a range of mouthiness. Our rescue golden/lab mix never ate anything inappropriate. But the puppy just loves to chew and eat random things. If I'm giving timothy hay to the chinchilla, he'll come grab a mouthful of the hay and run away with it, lol. He's 6.5 months now and a lot better about leaving certain things on the ground - I am SO glad he's finally stopped poop eating... :yuck:


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## jomiel (Feb 15, 2019)

Oh, does he have any chews and toys he's allowed to chew on? Kongs, antlers, cheese chews, bully sticks, stuffed animals, etc. I have Tomo's various chews and toys in a plastic tub and he'll go and pick out things he wants to play with. Sometimes within 30 min he'll have half the box out on the floor... But at least it means he won't chew on the legs of the bed.

The other thing that stands out for me in your posts - is that he seems to be in a different room/floor than where you are most of the time. Is that right? Is he crated in a diff area of the house than where you guys are? That seems weird to me because my dog wants to be with me 24/7, except when he's hot and just wants to take a nap on the concrete floor, or if he has snuck off and gotten into trouble!


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## writedog (Oct 4, 2019)

Hi! Yes, he's got tons of toys, Kongs and bones. He tends to choose eating other things, too. I try to run him in the backyard with the Chuck It but he gets disinterested quickly and looks for sticks and rocks to eat instead.

Yes, he's going to be with me when I work, shortly. I have not dog-proofed my office yet so it will be a major undertaking to do that so he can be with me. 

Regardless, it concerns me that he's this anxious and I'm home with him and exercise him a lot. Can't imagine if I ever got a job out of the house. He definitely shows anxiety (cries lightly) when one of us leaves. 

And yes, he's actually eating things. Not just chewing them up. I think some of it is for attention but then the cabinet today was obviously not for attention as I wasn't in the same room with him.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Well, to the ones that say listen to your vet. Here is a personal experience with my flatcoat who was owned by a vet prior to us adopting her. Darcy was on Prozac, crated for long hours with a bark collar on her --- because she just happened to be a sporting dog with too much energy. We have had her for over 6 years now, she just turned 10 in June and not one more calming pills entered her body. She is the sweetest dog, no behavior problems that would require medication of whatsoever.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Claudia M said:


> Well, to the ones that say listen to your vet. Here is a personal experience with my flatcoat who was owned by a vet prior to us adopting her. Darcy was on Prozac, crated for long hours with a bark collar on her --- because she just happened to be a sporting dog with too much energy. We have had her for over 6 years now, she just turned 10 in June and not one more calming pills entered her body. She is the sweetest dog, no behavior problems that would require medication of whatsoever.



I have met Darcy and can attest to her sweetness and calmness.


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## DblTrblGolden2 (Aug 22, 2018)

writedog said:


> I didn't hear from the breeder that there was any field work done or hunting with her dogs. I just know the sire had more energy than the dam. Don't even have his pedigree registered or anything and don't know where to find it.
> 
> But honestly my gut at this point is that he is high energy and his symptoms of CCD come out as a result of not being stimulated enough/bored. And I have never had such a job in my whole time of golden ownership.
> 
> ...


I don't think he's orally fixated with pica. I think he was bored and the knob of the tv cabinet looked interesting. Dogs eat what they chew up, especially wood. You shouldn't be fearful he will eat something. He should be in the same room you are, at least directly in your line of site, or crated. Make sure he has plenty of options that he is allowed to chew on and everything else is picked up. My guys neither one care a thing about a Kong. Try giving him a real bone stuffed with peanut butter, yogurt, or pumpkin that's been frozen. It will take him some time to clean the bone out. Golden's are mouthy! It's how they explore the world.

For the retrieve try rolling and bouncing the ball in different directions instead of using the chuck-it stick until he gets really into retrieving. If his drive to retrieve hasn't been brought out he may need a little practice. Once he's into it and retrieving at short distances successfully pull the chuck-it back out. Buy the chuck-it balls that whistle and glow. My guys night time favorite is glow ball for 20 minutes before bed. Try a canvas bumper with a short rope. That means game on at my house...

He's crying when you leave because he thinks you will come back, and he's sad you left. It doesn't sound like real anxiety to me. You can teach a quiet command, or no noise.

I honestly believe he needs training and exercise. You need to work on basic obedience and a "leave it" command. I know you've owned Golden's before but they are all different.

I once had an Irish Setter that was prescribed Prozac 25 years ago. He had destroyed our laundry room (drywall and all), failed obedience class, and flipped his crate in my car busting his lip on the way to the vet for a check up from eating the drywall. I was so disgusted with myself after the vet gave him the RX. I had owned Golden's but never a Setter. It was just what I needed to light a fire. I signed back up for obedience. I started letting him chase a four wheeler twice a day on our farm to tire him out, and started teaching tricks. (I know the 4 wheeler chasing sounds horrific but it worked) Within a few weeks he was going to the office with me. He needed to be with people. I had 2 young boys at the time and just wasn't giving him the exercise and training he needed. He ended up being my sons best friend. He lived to be over 16 and was the first one to ride in my sons truck when he got his license. He is legendary to this day with our neighbors and customers for some of his antics. He was smart!!! He learned to eventually ride on the back of my sons 4 wheeler. He went down the slide with the kids, he opened doors and gates. The only thing that dog wouldn't do was hunt and swim. He's the only dog I've ever had to save from drowning. I can't list all the things he could do but he was amazing. He's the only dog we ever considered re-homing and he's the one we laugh about the most. We currently have two field bred Golden's but I still have a soft spot in my heart for Irish Setters.


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## jeffscott947 (Jun 9, 2019)

To those saying not to listen to a vet..There are good vets and bad vets..good owners and bad owners, etc. 

It's up to the owners to either seek a second opinion, listen to a Pro, or diagnose over the net......The choices are pretty obvious, and it's not number 3.


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## writedog (Oct 4, 2019)

Just want to thank everyone for your extra responses. He's been doing a little better overall with more time out of the crate. But I agree, that he has more energy than we could manage. I am temporarily working 2 jobs right now ( I'm not happy about it but it's a necessity with a kid in college) so have had little extra time with him and like I said, for being as busy as we are, I think and my vet thinks we've done a good job with him. I know what it's like to have dogs and like I said, I had a challenging first one, a sweet as anything second one but this one is in a league of his own. 

Anyway, I do think he has pica because he tries to eat everything that's not tied down. Not sure what else to call it. Not necessarily the knob-eating incident (I know that's puppy stuff), but napkins, socks, tissues, etc. And he has a VERY strong drive to do it. I'm sure it's related to his anxiety and/or too much energy. 

But I do appreciate everyone's opinions and thoughts on what's going on with him. It has really helped me think of new things to consider and try, so thank you. 

We are not going to try medicine for the time being and see how the next month goes. I will have more time to spend with him now as my second job just ended. I want him out of the crate as much as possible even if that means I'm upstairs with a watchful ear on him. That is, until I organize and dog-proof my office. 

Thanks again!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

jeffscott947 said:


> To those saying not to listen to a vet..There are good vets and bad vets..good owners and bad owners, etc.
> 
> It's up to the owners to either seek a second opinion, listen to a Pro, or diagnose over the net......The choices are pretty obvious, and it's not number 3.


#1 - I did not offer a diagnose over the net
#2 - I did not say all vets are bad (my opinion is that 90% are un-educated - but I did not express it)
#3 - Any vet that prescribes Prozac on a young dog as opposed to obedience classes, activity ETC is a vet one should never trust. 

Good Day!


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