# Met a flat coated retriever yesterday...



## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

at this SPCA fundraising thing. A very obese one at that. But it's the first flattie that I've been lucky enough to meet and the owner seemed like a nice guy. So my friend with her dog is talking to him and I ask him (thinking, poor severely overwieght dog, maybe she's just old) what kind of dog she is - she's a flattie. Oh, I say, related to goldens, I have a golden. And the man says, I kid you not - Well, I had always wanted a golden but I wanted to stay away from designer dogs. I take a breath and tell him, Goldens aren't designer dogs, they are a breed. And he goes, oh yeah, well, they are just so popular they are like designer dogs. He's saying this and my friend is standing there with her golden doodle looking not so happy. I so wanted to say after the golden comment - so how much do you feed your dog because she could seriously stand to go on a diet. But I didn't. When I found out she was only 3 I really wanted to say something along those lines all the more.

So like, has anyone told a complete stranger that their dog is obese and that they should look into putting their dog on a diet? I am thinking back to yesterday and wishing I had the guts to say that for the dogs sake. It's not like I'll ever see the man again so what do I care if he thinks I'm an ignoramus?


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

I was at a party yesterday where a guest had brought their KC Cavalier Spaniel. Would never had guessed the breed other than I know the owner. He was obese and shaved. I wanted to say "What are you thinking?" but kept my mouth shut. People know when their dog is overweight, telling them isn't going to change it.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

You can always say 'wow, never seen a dog that fat in a long time' or 'that's not fluffy' or 'my aunt had a dog like that, she never did get his wieght down and he died so young, it was sad' and leave it at that. 

Although honestly, most people will know their dogs are fat and just not bother to do much, or figure it's not a big deal, or go with the 'loose one pound a year' thing. Heard on the radio too that the 'diet' dog foods are the worst as they are loaded with carbs so the dog doesn't loose much anyhow. Interesting!

Lana


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

I bet the guy wanted a "unique" dog breed and thus all his huffing and puffing about "designer breeds" and popular breeds. It's hard to say "I wanted a rare dog breed so I could feel special that I own something few people have" so he went with his nonsense you described above. That's exactly why my aunt and uncle got a chesapeake bay retriever - because no one else in the family had ever had one, or heard of one, so they enjoyed being "special". When asked why they hadn't just gotten a lab or golden or something, they began to sputter and spew the same nonsense. "In breeding", "cancer", "too common"...Ha! 

Poor doggie though. I hate seeing obese dogs waddling around. Breaks my heart.


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## C's Mom (Dec 7, 2009)

I know just how you feel MomtoMax. I met a golden at the park and this guys golden was way overweight, easily twice as wide as my boy. He was going on and on about how people only give their goldens one cup of food per feeding...ummmm that would be me. He knew who I was because he said "Hey, you're the lady with the skinny golden".  I really wanted to say something but I could see that it would fall on deaf ears. 
Instead I felt like I had to defend myself and explained that my boy does get one cup per feeding but that he gets fed twice a day plus treats a few times a day and a snack of frozen dog food in a marrow bone in the evening. I doubt anything I had to say would change his mind on feeding his dog less.


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## MilosMommy (May 24, 2010)

C's Mom said:


> I know just how you feel MomtoMax. I met a golden at the park and this guys golden was way overweight, easily twice as wide as my boy. He was going on and on about how people only give their goldens one cup of food per feeding...ummmm that would be me. He knew who I was because he said "Hey, you're the lady with the skinny golden".  I really wanted to say something but I could see that it would fall on deaf ears.
> Instead I felt like I had to defend myself and explained that my boy does get one cup per feeding but that he gets fed twice a day plus treats a few times a day and a snack of frozen dog food in a marrow bone in the evening. I doubt anything I had to say would change his mind on feeding his dog less.


Have you always fed one cup per feeding? Our vet has Milo on 2 cups twice a day. He doesn't get many treats, maybe 1 or 2 milkbones a day. I'm wondering if I am over feeding Milo?


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

It depends on the calorie content of the food so don't judge by "cups" judge by calories/cup and figure out what amount of calories is right for your dog. 

For example, Jack's food is 425 kcal/cup. He weighs 64 lbs. We feed hom 1.5 cups twice a day (1275 calories) because we're trying to get him to gain about 1/2 lb. right now. Before that he was on 1.25 cups (1062.5 calories) twice a day. And Jack doesn't really get any treats besides kibble (and then we deduct it from his feeding) and is fairly active. If Milo isn't overweight and isn't gaining weight on what you're feeding him then he's probably fine.


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## MilosMommy (May 24, 2010)

A few weeks ago at the vet Milo weighed 74 pounds I think and he is still probably gaining because he is still growing right? They didn't say he was over weight though. He is on Fromm Chicken A La Veg right now, the website says it's kcal/cup: 370. Is the 2 cups twice a day okay? Maybe I should cut it back since he isn't getting much exercise right now?


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## esSJay (Apr 13, 2009)

To a complete stranger, I probably wouldn't have the guts to point out their dog is overweight. Most of the time they will say something along the lines of "oh, my dog is much bigger than yours!" (pointing out that Molson's skinny) and I just say "oh we keep him lean, it's better for the hips not to mention he gets a ton of exercise and a leaner dog is a healthy dog".

My mom's GR is about 10lbs overweight.  I've told them many times before and they just think that I underfeed Molson. Skoker does get TONS of exercise in the summers (he lives at the cottage with my stepdad and spends multiple hours a day swimming, does about 10K of hiking daily, not to mention his addiction to the game of fetch where he plays non stop allllll afternoon and evening!), but I know he's being overfed and it really bugs me. 

We watched him for 3 weeks last year when my parents went on vacation and in the meantime I put Skoker on a diet (10cal/lb of ideal weight) and he joined Molson and I for 2 daily walks of an hour each. In just the 3 weeks, he must have lost 3 or 4 lbs. My mom came home and said "wow! he looks great! what did you do?" I told them and she said she would keep it up but my stepdad kept feeding him all the extra food. *sigh* you can't win.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Yep, Ranger would be a fat-fattie if my dad was in charge of feeding him. When he was on kibble, dad said he wasn't getting enough food. I told him the kibble he's getting is higher calorie than the food our other dogs used to eat. Now that ranger is on raw, he's getting about 1.5 lbs a day and dad still thinks he's not getting enough. I told my dad that until I can walk again, ranger can't get a ton of food - so now my dad bikes with ranger almost every evening! 

I had a hard time telling my brother that his dog was too fat. They were still feeding him 4 cups of orijen a day even once he was done growing and Blue was getting tubby! Luckily, they listened (i had a thread about it in the other pets section) and now Blue is back down to a healthy weight.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

Yeah I've never had a lot of luck with telling people and getting them to change. The dog down the street is obese, on free feeding of beniful and they think he's great, because they run with him. Still does not make a difference because they keep the bowl full of fruitloop kibbles there for him all the time because he 'doesn't eat a whole meal' otherwise. I keep thinking he could totally do with skipping a 'meal' here and there and they might actually get to train him using food (he does not like toys and of course is NEVER hungry enough for food rewards, will eat them if handed over but won't do a thing for them). But oh well. Just like they asked how to get him to stop pulling, told them first of all to not let him drag them everywhere, stand still if he's doing that, and less than an hour later they're walking him with the leash wrapped around the hand and him gagging and dragging them down the street, on the lawns and everything.

Now I smile and nod a lot. 

Lana


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

MilosMommy said:


> A few weeks ago at the vet Milo weighed 74 pounds I think and he is still probably gaining because he is still growing right? They didn't say he was over weight though. He is on Fromm Chicken A La Veg right now, the website says it's kcal/cup: 370. Is the 2 cups twice a day okay? Maybe I should cut it back since he isn't getting much exercise right now?


With Milo facing hip surgery (that is your pup with the HD, right?), I would definitely keep him on the lean side. I would cut him back to 1 1/2 cups twice a day until after he recovers from his surgery and only up it then if his activity increases significantly. I had to take my Jasmine from 96 lbs to 72 lbs after her second hip surgery. I know she would have healed up more quickly if I had gotten the weight off from her before her surgery.


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## Pete Townsend (Aug 26, 2010)

Funny story on fat dogs - 

We were going to Outer Banks for a vacation in August and decided to take Sugar to the dog sitter for the first time. We know the woman and man who share this duty at the woman's house and they are wonderful people and dog lovers. she sits maybe 6 to 8 dogs at a time max and they each have their area in the house and she has play time and outside time etc. Great situation. $25 a day too, no so bad.

Anyway, Sugar is our first dog and so we are learning every day. The day before we are to take her to the sitter, Sugar barfs a huge pile of what looked like salad under our table. She was 6 months or so and at that time was still eating all sorts of stuff from the yard, I had spoken to the vet who said this was fairly normal but obviusly I called when she barfed like that and the vet said it was most likely a plant that upset her stomach, watch her, feed her rice, etc. Ok, so Sugar barfed like 4 more times that day (including the rice) but woke up the next day looking and acting chipper so we gve her her morning meal (per the vet) and she was fine and dandy the rest of the day. It was just a nasty plant and a one day upset stomach. But she hadn't eaten in 24+ hours before that morning meal and she was HUNGRY..but still the vet said just stick with regular feeding patterns so her next feeding would be in the evening.

So anyway...i take her to the sitter before that evening feeding and while we are chatting Sugar scarfs down another dog's food from the bowl that was out in the kitchen. the sitter says "wow that dog's hungry how are you feeding her?" So explain that we feed her 1.5 cups in morning and 1.5 in the evening and her food is Blue LBD. So he is stunned and says "oh no...no no...with a puppy like this you need to feed it as much as it will eat. Just put out like 12 cups and let her eat her fill..maybe she will eat too much the first couple of times...but eventually she will regulate and then you will know what to feed her. This is important times for puppies when bones are joints are developing and you don't want her underfed blah blah blah" and it actually made SOME sense to me I suppose and anyway what do I know being a brand new dog owner and I KNOW this guy and he super nice and seems knowlegable.

So after that chat he says let's have Sugar meet Roosevelt, his GR that sort of sets the tone for the whole house (he says if a dog can't get along with Roo they don't sit that dog, he's the king and super friendly and you have to pass the Roo test), and up trots the biggest, FATTEST GR I have ever seen! I burst out laughing and said "Ted! You've got to be kidding me with that advice look at your dog!!!!" And he says well...he's very hairy and he is just big not fat and I was like YEAH RIGHT. LOL. :bowl:

Sorry for the long story. I guess the moral for me is maybe don't take advice from people until you see how their dogs are, lol. Of course that's what I am doing on this board all the time...


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## MilosMommy (May 24, 2010)

fostermom said:


> With Milo facing hip surgery (that is your pup with the HD, right?), I would definitely keep him on the lean side. I would cut him back to 1 1/2 cups twice a day until after he recovers from his surgery and only up it then if his activity increases significantly. I had to take my Jasmine from 96 lbs to 72 lbs after her second hip surgery. I know she would have healed up more quickly if I had gotten the weight off from her before her surgery.


I wonder why my vet or the hip specialist has said nothing to me about cutting back his meals? The specialist did tell me that he will lead a perfect and normal life but he just may need to stay leaner after the surgery so that there isn't a lot of weight on the new hip. But NOTHING about right now.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I have been on both sides of this argument. Belle used to weigh 117# yup she was FAT but because she was so big it was really hard to know until she got the last bit of weight on her after getting kennel cough. However when we put her on her diet and got 30 POUNDS off her, both DH and I were amazed how heavy she was and how GREAT she looks now. 

Recently I had Teddi at work, she is 60# and a lot of people commented how she is too skinny. I said no she is not "too" skinny, but yes she is thin. I told them they are comparing her to the dogs they see on a day to day basis and probably 90% of the "average dogs you see", are overweight to one degree or another. I explained how imperative it is for us to keep her thin. 

Then there is my SIL :doh: Her dog makes even FAT Belle look good. Plus it has a blown out knee. You do NOT have to be a vet to dx that one. It is horrible to watch this dog go around. They refuse to get the dog help for her knee, reason... she is old...(she is 9), I can understand financial considerations but let me finish my story... Then I tell her if the dog lost weight it would be MUCH better for her knees. So she gets all bent out of shape and makes sarcastic comments on how Art and I think her dog is fat... we were not the only ones. She feeds it about 4 cups of food twice a day. Our dogs at the MOST get 3 cups split between two feedings and they are ACTIVE! Then my SIL is asking me about getting a doberman pup... I tell her they need a LOT of training, attention, and exercise (the 3 things they NEVER do with their current dog it lives in their basement unless it goes out to go to the bathroom) Oh they plan to buy a farm it will have room to run :uhoh: Then I say to get a good one with all clearances, from a good breeder be prepared to spend money. She announces they are prepared to pay up to $2500 for a puppy. BUT THEY WON'T SPEND MONEY TO HELP THEIR CURRENT DOG HAVE A PAIN FREE EXISTENCE!!!!  Neither Art or I can have a dog conversation with her without risking explosion. Oh she is the same one who called me saying her dog was exhibiting signs of bloat (my diagnosis based on her symptoms) and said it needs a vet, and she said they could not afford one. How are we supposed to live with family like that? I can't take it. 

Sad but funny, there is a dachsie in our neighborhood who is SO fat his feet don't touch the ground. Poor guy but funny to look at. I actually have not seen him for awhile probably not alive anymore.


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## C's Mom (Dec 7, 2009)

MilosMommy said:


> Have you always fed one cup per feeding? Our vet has Milo on 2 cups twice a day. He doesn't get many treats, maybe 1 or 2 milkbones a day. I'm wondering if I am over feeding Milo?


When I first adopted Cocasse he was on the skinny side so I would feed him 2 cups per feeding. After he gained some weight and started looking healthy again I slowly decreased his food to 1 1/2 cups per feeding. 

Now he gets 1 cup. He does get treats (1 or 2 a day) and a marrow bone filled with frozen dog food but not everyday. I eyeball him and feel him all the time to see how he is doing weight wise and feed accordingly.


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

MilosMommy said:


> I wonder why my vet or the hip specialist has said nothing to me about cutting back his meals? The specialist did tell me that he will lead a perfect and normal life but he just may need to stay leaner after the surgery so that there isn't a lot of weight on the new hip. But NOTHING about right now.


I'm sure your vet would have said something if he wanted Milo slimmer. Remember you are waiting because he is still growing.


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

Thanks for the replies - you're all likely right - it wouldn't have changed how he fed his dog. But it would have felt good to me!


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## Phillyfisher (Jan 9, 2008)

Last weekend I was out with Tucker. We met a number of golden owners, and every single one of them asked how much Tucker weighed. When I told them 79# and that he could stand to lose 4 or 5 pounds, they all commented that their dogs were much bigger....every single one of them said their dogs were over 100 lbs! All I could picture was some very very wide bodied goldens. We have cut Tucker back to 1 cup 2x a day of Eagle Pack but he still gets some treats too. He is slowly losing the couple of pounds he needs to. When I see how beautiful he is when he runs, I cannot imagine how some of these 100 lb dogs move. It makes me feel sad for them. People will love their dogs to death by overfeeding them...


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

You could have jokingly told him you thought he had a black golden.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Megora said:


> You could have jokingly told him you thought he had a black golden.


OMG This past spring I was leaving work. It was a nice day, I had my windows down. A car pulls up at a light, it is a convertible, and they have a flat coat in the back seat. The dog makes eye contact with me and gets his tail going. I comment to the driver, "that's a pretty flat coat." The driver replies... "it's not a flat coat, it is a black golden retriever." I KID YOU NOT!!!!


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

Isn't a flattie pretty much a black golden retriever or are there numerous differences I don't know about? I ask because I was under the impression that they were closely related.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Maxs Mom said:


> OMG This past spring I was leaving work. It was a nice day, I had my windows down. A car pulls up at a light, it is a convertible, and they have a flat coat in the back seat. The dog makes eye contact with me and gets his tail going. I comment to the driver, "that's a pretty flat coat." The driver replies... *"it's not a flat coat, it is a black golden retriever."* I KID YOU NOT!!!!


:rockon: 

*laughs* I would have been waiting for the guy to crack a smile like he was trying to be funny. There are so many flatcoat (flattie?) owners who take mortally-wounded offense over the mistaken identity. 

Er, or maybe he rescued the flatcoat and... er... assumed it was a black golden. 

- I think flat coats are closer related to labs than they are to goldens. At least that's what I've heard?



> The breed cites in its ancestry the Retriever Proper, a cross-breed emerging from the Large Newfoundland, setter, sheepdog, and spaniel-like water dogs, in addition to various other breeds that have contributed the Flat-Coat’s unique stature and appearance.


Goldens of course came from spaniel-like water dogs, field setters, and.... Russian circus dogs. 

Or more seriously -



> The Tweed Water Spaniel had tremendous influence on Tweedmouth’s developing breed, as he bred his original stud "Nous" to "Belle," a Tweed Water Spaniel, to produce four yellow puppies. Later on down the line, cross-breedings integrated Irish Setter, Bloodhound, and more Tweed Water Spaniel to obtain the Golden Retriever we recognize today.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

Country Sports and Country Life - The Golden Retriever
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In 1868 Lord Tweedmouth mated a yellow Wavy-Coated retriever (*Nous*) he had bought from a cobbler in Brighton (bred by Lord Chichester) to a Tweed Water Spaniel (*Belle*) from Ladykirk on the Tweed. These Tweed Water-Spaniels, rare except in the Border Country, are described by authorities of the time as like a small Retriever, liver-coloured and curly-coated. Lord Tweedmouth methodically line-bred down from this mating between 1868 and 1890, using another Tweed Water-Spaniel, and outcrosses of two black Retrievers, an Irish Setter and a sandy coloured Bloodhound. (It is now known that one of the most influential Kennels in the first part of the century which lies behind all present day Golden Retrievers was founded on stock bred by Lord Tweedmouth.)"

From this description it can be seen that all Golden Retrievers go back to the yellow retriever Nous who himself was obviously the produce of Flat - coated Retrievers.

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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

C's Mom said:


> I know just how you feel MomtoMax. I met a golden at the park and this guys golden was way overweight, easily twice as wide as my boy. He was going on and on about how people only give their goldens one cup of food per feeding...ummmm that would be me. He knew who I was because he said "Hey, you're the lady with the skinny golden".  I really wanted to say something but I could see that it would fall on deaf ears.
> Instead I felt like I had to defend myself and explained that my boy does get one cup per feeding but that he gets fed twice a day plus treats a few times a day and a snack of frozen dog food in a marrow bone in the evening. I doubt anything I had to say would change his mind on feeding his dog less.


A lady with a fat Golden called Comet skinny once and told me that I should put some weight on him. I WENT OFF on an epic tirade about how he just looks skinny to her because she's used to seeing overweight Goldens that die young and crippled with geriatric disease, like hers probably would if she didn't wake up about it, and that Comet was lean with hard muscle because of his active lifestyle, and had she read the Purina study on healthy weight, and oh, by the way, why couldn't she take hers off the leash like Comet was, was it because she hadn't done any training with her?

I was a real sumbitch about it, but I mean c'mon.

As far as calling people out on their overweight dogs, I've never figured out an effective way to do it with strangers. I figure they'll think I'm just some jerk know-it-all and ignore me, so I don't usually say anything.

When friends' dogs are overweight, I usually bring up the Purina study in a different context, when we're not taking about their dogs or at their house around them. I just say, "so I read this thing on healthy weight and how much healthy time it can add to a dog's life..." etc. Not sure if that's too subtle, but I haven't lost any friendships over it.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Maxs Mom said:


> OMG This past spring I was leaving work. It was a nice day, I had my windows down. A car pulls up at a light, it is a convertible, and they have a flat coat in the back seat. The dog makes eye contact with me and gets his tail going. I comment to the driver, "that's a pretty flat coat." The driver replies... "it's not a flat coat, it is a black golden retriever." I KID YOU NOT!!!!


Could have been a Golden/Lab mix that came out with a black, GR-type coat.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

It can also help to cite the breed standard. The max for a male GR is 75 lbs. Some healthy boys may be a bit too tall for standard and therefore still healthy at a little more than 75, but once you get towards 85 or 90, the dog is either way, way oversized or is overweight.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

solinvictus said:


> Country Sports and Country Life - The Golden Retriever
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So... the Flatties are an ancestor of sorts of goldens, before the bloodhound, Irish Setter, and black retrievers (labs?) were thrown in?  

And that means my webfooted golden has newfie ancestors way way way back. Cool.


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## pwrstrk02 (Aug 11, 2010)

i dont say anything to the owners, but if i pet the dog, if its warrented, i will call it a fat ass without any guilty feelings. i think that that sticks in the owners head a little more. makes them think a little more about how others inturprit their dog. if im around a dog that i dont know, ill say, my, youre a heafty boy, or arent you a fattie. its easier to talk to a dog about their weight than the owner. the dog will agree.


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