# Gentle leader as tool in training, good or bad?



## Megora

The reason why "gentle leaders" work is because they remove the pressure from the thick muscle bulked and tough portions of your dog's body (neck if regular collar, shoulders/chest if harness - these areas mean that the dogs can pull even with prongs around their necks without feeling any discomfort)... and they put the pressure on the very sensitive tissues around your dog's nose and eyes. 

If they pull - it digs into their muzzle and eye areas and hurts. If you have a lunger too - you risk a neck injury for your dog because the collar whips their head to the side. 

People use it because the term "gentle leader" refers to the pressure that they feel when walking their dog on leash. 

As a tool - if people use it as training tool, it probably would help? 

Except because there's no training involved (the dog is made to behave because of discomfort) - odds are you are going to be stuck using the contraption until you get back to training with a regular collar.

Any trainer who immediately straps contraptions on dogs which force them to behave as opposed to working with the owner to give them more control over their dog and work through problems... is not worth the money.


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## Max's Dad

I can tell you that when Max went to his first obedience class at about 6 months of age, the class required that we purchase a gentle leader and a 6 foot leather leash. He resisted the gentle leader at first, but eventually adapted to it. Max is unusually large and strong, and the GL was a big help in getting him to walk well on the leash. After a while, when we got out the GL, Max learned that it was time to behave and walk well. As he matured, we found the GL to not be necessary. Sometimes, we would put the GL on him but put the leash on his regular collar. I gradually began using a conventional, flat leather collar for his walks with no GL in sight. We have not used the GL for a long time now.


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## mm2k14

A gentle leader is like a bandaid fix to a problem. It will improve or curb the undesired behaviors very quickly, but the dog is not actually learning anything simply having it on. Without training and reinforcement, the dog will return to previous behaviors once it's off. That being said, there is nothing wrong with using it as a tool. As with everything, you just need to make sure it's being used appropriately. The big danger is if your dog continues to lunge after you start to use it. It would not be appropriate in that situation. 

If I'm reading it correctly, it sounds like your dog walks fine except when she's around other dogs. As you already pointed out, the big focus to work on with the trainer is her insecurity and aggression. If a gentle leader will allow her to behave appropriately during those times when you can't be working on it (be it time, or otherwise), I view that as a perfectly acceptable option. If she walks well without it and you know you won't be around other dogs, I personally don't see the need. Use it when you need it would be my advice, and understand that it's just temporary fix. You can always leave the GL on just in case, but attach to the collar/harness when you don't actively need it.


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## Bandit's Mom

I used the prong collar with the other two dogs and when I got my current golden Bandit (now almost three years old) I was determined that this was the puppy I would train up right. Leash training was a key priority. This pup would be one of those dogs who walked precisely by the owner's side and always had attention on the owner's movements. I can't count the number of 'stops and starts' and 'turnaround' I did. For a one year period at least all leash walks were training walks, and I didn't enjoy them, but I did them because I was stubborn and wanted to see if Bandit would eventually get it. As Bandit gets a lot of off-leash time on trails, the training walks were fortunately not our only activity. 

I started him on the easy-harness (on a trainer's recommendation) and worked on the heel command with from the get go and did not get very far. I read the books, took two obedience classes, and did copious amounts of on-line research. Since he was enjoying his freedom on the easy harness too much, I switched to the buckle collar. He still pulled, so in desperation I went back to the prong, and saw a trainer to learn how to use it as a training tool. However, I couldn't replicate what that trainer did. 

In short, I did everything 'right' within my capabilities. 

I worked with another trainer on Bandit's leash behaviour, and made an amazing discovery. That is, Bandit responded much better to the trainer than me because she had much more upper body control than I did, built up over years of training dog and previously working in a furniture warehouse. 

So, I had to rethink the whole situation and figure out what I could do with Bandit given that I lacked the ideal amount of upper body control.

I still use the prong with him, although he is actually not very sensitive to it, so there isn't a big change when I switch to the buckle. And there is still tension on the leash.

He does not give me a textbook heel. He is a dominant and headstrong dog, and doesn't do anything textbook, really. Though I will say that his 'hold' and 'wait' are rather awesome, and his 'come' is not too shabby, either, probably about 90%. And he has only once ever jumped the front yard fence, which is easy to jump over, and that was years ago. 

In the end I just stopped beating myself up about it and accepted who Bandit is, as well as who I am. We don't spend a lot of time walking on leash - as he's a retriever, balls are usually the focus of play time. 

I haven't stopped training the heel, but have arrived at the view that if a tool allows you to do more with your dog and give your dog a better life - then by all means, use it.


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## Pilgrim123

I have used a gentle leader or Halti on several dogs. I believe it is great as a tool to help curb pulling, especially in circumstances where control is imperative (such as when taking two dogs to the vet, when both hated cats.) I've never seen any sign of great discomfort from any of the dogs, or from horses, for that matter, with halters on. I very much doubt the dogs would have been so eager to get them on if they hurt! Produce the gentle leader, and they would be sitting in front of me with wagging tails.


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## LynnC

I agree with Pilgrim123. I used a Gentle Leader with my 85-90 LB male GR after I broke my finger on a walk! I trained, trained, trained but when he saw that squirrel (and I didn't) he lunged and the leash caught my finger just right! He adjusted fine and loved his walks so much he didn't mind the GL. It's not my first choice but when you have a dog that pulls, jumps and lunges I think its a great tool.


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## Swampcollie

> *Gentle leader as tool in training, good or bad?*


That depends upon what you are trying to accomplish. 

Is your goal to teach the dog to walk nicely at heal? Or, are you simply trying to force compliance? The head halters are tools of forced compliance similar to those used with beasts of burden. Attach a lead to the ring in the bulls nose and it will follow you because it has no other choice. The head halters for dogs work the same way. They follow you because they have to. They have no other choice. But, have you really taught them anything?


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## Ljilly28

I like your trainer's approach of the gentle leader even though I don't use them personally. I agree with Max's dad that with gentle handling and maturity she will outgrow her need for a gentle leader as long as you continue to work on heeling in class and in less distracting environments on her flat collar. The GL is not more or less of a bandaid that a pinch collar- just different. You are right not to choose a prong or choke collar for a pet dog who is already anxious and unsure. You want to build her confidence, and have her expand her threshold of where she feels safe and comfortable, not cause her pain or force her.


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## Ljilly28

PS A great book to read for this situation is BAT 2.0 by Grisha Stewart or ClickTo Calm by Emma Parsons.


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## Megora

> You want to build her confidence, and have her expand her threshold of where she feels safe and comfortable, not cause her pain or force her.


Small issue though is how to explain why/how a "gentle" leader works other than by pain and force?

I don't really use those words to describe stuff in dog training, because I do think these dogs are made of tougher stuff than their owners in most cases and you have methods and tools which are vilified by some people. But what I've seen with these nose collars plus using common sense to explain why these straps work and why I've seen some dogs get pretty hysterical trying to get them off whereas they don't react too much to having a prong put on their necks. They will scratch, but that doesn't indicate pain as much as the dog just refusing to pick it's head up and just pawing to get a contraption off their face.

Unlike the folk perception of prong collars or choke chains (which hey, everyone in conformation uses choke chains or contraptions which work the same way), there seems to be some kind of denial going on about why or how a strap around the very sensitive tissue area of the nose and eyes of your dog works better than a strap around your dog's neck. 

I know the comparison is to horses with their head halters, but dogs are a different animal than horses. It would get a little goofy comparing the two. A horse can absolutely get out of control and really take you for a ride just by using its head. The pressure points aren't the same as with dogs. I know, because I used to help train horses. You didn't just strap a halter on a horse and viola you can take that horse for a walk. I know people out there think that's all that happens when training a horse, but...  

I don't care what ugly contraption people put on their dogs (and halters are pretty ugly). I just have to speak up when I see people glossing over truths. Use something - but be honest about why or how it works.


Other thing, btw. I see stuff about people fussing about controlling really huge dogs and this is a reason why they resort to using training tools habitually while taking their dogs for walks (training tools for me don't belong on a dog unless he is being actively trained with fair rewards, etc). Dudes. Train your dogs when they are little. There's a small window of time between the point your dogs are about 4 months old and 12 months old when you have plenty of time to work on "walking nice" around the block with your dogs, going to classes with your dog and training them to ignore/leave it stuff ahead or around them, and more importantly you have this time to shape the dog you want to have. People who use exercise alternatives which lead to a more uncontrolled and unfocused dog - will unfortunately have that kind of dog as an adult until they "slow down". So daycare, dog parks, and any kind of situation where your dog sees other dogs or people and thinks they can go run up and play (I mean something beyond the usual confident interest in other dogs)... these activities create the dogs you will have when they grow up. 

You can still train any dog at any age - but it's easier when they are 40-65 pounds as opposed to 60-75 pounds.... or gosh forbid dealing with an overweight or obese dog beyond those weights. And you know these dogs go through the hormones around 6-8 months, so the pulling and stubborn routines they start then. You want to have a nice walk trained before 6-8 months or have a good plan before then. But even if you slip up and suddenly realize you have a dog you can't walk - that's when you need to go to obedience classes and learn how to train your dog. And go to somebody whose ability to teach goes beyond selling products to strap on the dog.


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## Swampcollie

Ljilly28 said:


> I like your trainer's approach of the gentle leader even though I don't use them personally. I agree with Max's dad that with gentle handling and maturity she will outgrow her need for a gentle leader as long as you continue to work on heeling in class and in less distracting environments on her flat collar. The GL is not more or less of a bandaid that a pinch collar- just different. You are right not to choose a prong or choke collar for a pet dog who is already anxious and unsure. You want to build her confidence, and have her expand her threshold of where she feels safe and comfortable, not cause her pain or force her.


That's kind of the point. There is nothing gentle about a head halter. It is a tool of brute force giving the dog no other option. Granted you get the dog under control, but are you really teaching anything with it?


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## Charliethree

NGolden said:


> As our dog started showing some aggression towards other dogs, mostly because she is unsure dog. We have visited another trainer. And the first thing we got was a gentle leader. Just as we stopped using easy walk and she started walking nicely with normal collar. But she was hard to control around other dogs.
> 
> She accepted gentle leader, she didn't fight to much, and when another dog came for distraction she behaved nicely. No barking, pulling. It was amazing.
> 
> I don't like see that on her, but today there was a difference in her behaviour, so I am willing to try. With going forward hoping that one day we will go back to normal collar.
> 
> Does anyone has experience in using a gentle leader as a tool in training? Is it good or bad? There are some other things we have to work on with her, so that should help also with her behaviour. But in the meantime, I would like to hear some other experiences.


 The head harness can be an effective tool to aid in working with your dog. Used appropriately to guide the dogs head using gentle pressure, without yanking or jerking on the leash, it does work well for some dogs. For some dogs it will inhibit normal behavior, they will seemingly behave better with it on, appear calmer, but their over all body language will tell whether they are comfortable, feeling relaxed wearing it.

You be the judge, can she learn while she is wearing it? Does she seem relaxed, moves easily, not inhibited, anxious or stiff? If so, it may be an appropriate tool for your dog, use it appropriately, while you teach her the skills she needs, including working to change how she feels about the other dogs ( counter conditioning/desensitizing) so that she able to cope well in the presence of other dogs.


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## CAROLINA MOM

When I adopted my boy, I used the Easy Walk Harness, *it is not* the one with the strap that goes over the nose. It worked great, I used it for a few weeks when I was working with him on leash walking. I no longer use it. 

Easy Walk® Harness


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## Wenderwoman

I use the Easy Walk Harness on all three of my dogs. I've never used the muzzle type leashes and I'm not really a fan of just walking with a collar because I don't want them being pulled by their neck.

Anyway, I guess my point is that I never needed it myself. I just trained with treats and a clicker.


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## Pilgrim123

You've all got a point - the gentle leader was great, but we still worked on walking loose-leash. Once they accepted we were going where I wanted to go, not where they wanted to pull me, then we walked most times on a normal lead. Still, Pilgrim once pulled me on my stomach onto a road in front of a truck when he decided to chase a roo. He was ten at the time. He went back on the gentle leader for a month or so until my gravel rash healed.
But like a child with its Sunday best clothes on, if the gentle leader was on, nothing but the best behaviour was tolerated and my dogs all knew that.


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## Bandit's Mom

Swampcollie said:


> Is your goal to teach the dog to walk nicely at heal? Or, are you simply trying to force compliance? The head halters are tools of forced compliance similar to those used with beasts of burden. Attach a lead to the ring in the bulls nose and it will follow you because it has no other choice. The head halters for dogs work the same way. They follow you because they have to. They have no other choice. But, have you really taught them anything?


As I described above, I spent at least one year trying to teach my Bandit to heel and eventually had to resort to the prong collar. 

Although I haven't stopped training the heel, I concede that it is in part forced compliance - although in Bandit's case 'forced' would not be the right word, as he is not very sensitive to the collar. 'Nudged' would be more accurate.

Positive reinforcement did not work with Bandit when it came to leash work. His heel remains a work in progress and is far from textbook. Although he does spend a lot of time off leash, which may have impeded his progress.

The reason there are so many walking aids for dogs is that so many dogs pull. 

If a walking aid makes it possible for a person to spend more time walking with their dog, I think it is a good thing. Not everyone is skilled at leash work (see my above post), and some dogs are particularly difficult. 

If the choice is between walks being a battle between dogs and owner, or the two actually being able to go somewhere, by all means, use a walking tool. I agree that such tools are best used for training, but am not going to judge someone who uses them just as a tool.


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## Augustine

I used it for awhile to help curb my dog's pulling. It worked well, but only as a band-aid solution. I knew the pulling wouldn't stop until I actually trained it out of her. At the time, all I was really doing was making it harder to pull.

If you want something to actually get your dog to stop _permanently_, you should try a prong collar. Like the gentle leader, it's a fairly "gentle" too, designed to correct the dog but without potentially hurting them. (like a choke collar, for instance)

A lot of people get really up in arms about prongs, saying it's cruel, etc. which is ironic, given that a prong is actually one of the safest and most effective training tools out there. lol

My mom was NOT happy about the idea of using one on our dog, but after I showed her how it worked (even tried it on myself) and the results it produced, she finally opened up to the idea.

Back, to get back to the main point; I think the gentle leader can be useful in some cases, as long as you know it's not going to be an actual fix. Just a temporary stop.


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## Ljilly28

Swampcollie said:


> That's kind of the point. There is nothing gentle about a head halter. It is a tool of brute force giving the dog no other option. Granted you get the dog under control, but are you really teaching anything with it?


I think "brute force" is dramatic. This doesn't cause pain and crying like a shock collar collar/ e collar. 

On the other hand I do agree with you that it is a band aid for the owner's convenience. 

The differences is the dog experiences no physical PAIN thus the "gentle", lol. 

The answer to the OP is always study up. Read Dr. Karen Overall, Dr. Nick Dodman, and other highly qualified DVM/Vet,Behaviorist with top credentials.


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## NGolden

Thank you all for your advice. 
So we have been using GL for some time now and I can say it help us a lot. It is much more easier to control her. 
She was good with people passing by her but, dogs or other unexpected situations would make her pull so much. Now I can control her faster and easier, so we are at the point where she is most of the time on a lose leash, so I would say that GL doesn't cause her big discomfort. 
Finally we are getting some nicer weather so we are able to go on off leash places where she can enjoy running free and no GL. I hope this will help with her being unsure about other dogs more.
If we are is some deserted area I switch from GL to hers flat collar and she does good with it.
I think when she gets more confidence and realizes that some things are not so bad. We will be able to get rid of GL, but for now it is helping us. I don't like it either and I would like nothing more then to see her one day having just her flat collar.


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## Ljilly28

Tufts University has a well regarded veterinary behavior program: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F88toqJXkxA


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## Ljilly28

Loose Leash Walking

Gail Fisher on loose leash walking for pets


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