# New Convert



## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

I still think of myself as "training with a clicker" because I dont use the clicker exclusively.

Not naming gets much easier with time...

Spend time reading "lumping vs. splitting" - that will save you and Kayee a lot of frustration. 

Sue Ailsby had a great clicker website....
http://www.dragonflyllama.com/ DOGS/ Dog1/levels.html
Her "Law of Laziness" is one of my favorite expressions.

Before you know it you will be 'clicking' family and friends in addition to your dog...

Have Fun!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

That's the Kathy Sdao article, right? LOVE HER! Love Pat McConnell and love Tales of Two Species!

Keep up the great work! I "train with a clicker" a lot, too. I'm rarely patient enough to use pure shaping. I don't see anything wrong with luring a bit in the beginning so long as you get off the lure as quickly as possible. Even when I lure, I mark with a clicker b/c it's much more of a salient sound to most dogs than a verbal marker.

Gail Fisher has a great new book --- ack, can't remember what it's called, but it's about becoming a clicker trainer when you're used to "traditional" (compulsion) training and lure training. I think it's something like The Thinking Dog. I know www.dogwise.com has it. I've heard great things about it. Might want to check it out.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

BTW - check out www.kathysdao.com. She's got some wonderful articles on shaping behavior. The story about ET the walrus makes me downright teary thinking about what they accomplished!


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## dannyra (Aug 5, 2008)

Thanks for the replies. Looks like no works getting done tomorrow. Going to have to read a bunch more articles.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

i also train with a clicker. Sue's site is REALLY good. If you have any questions feel free to ask. Between all of us I'm sure we could answer some questions.


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## dannyra (Aug 5, 2008)

Just ordered the "The Thinking Dog". Been looking at Kathy Sdao's site and Sue Ailsby's site today and a little last night.

I'm assuming that since Kylee knows the basics (sit,down,stay, come) really well there is no added value in trying to do clicker training without giving a command since she already knows the command for those. Maybe just using the clicker to improve them a bit. Such as faster sits.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

One of the key things about the clicker is sweet timing, especially with some of the new things(to me and Tally) in obedience& rally like go oits and jumps and hand signals. Sometimes, I have to conciously remind myself to get up to speed and precision with the click bc Tally is receiving feedback he understands from it.

One of my favorite thing about clicker training is how Tally learned how to learn. When the clicker comes out to learn something new, he immediately tries to suss out and then reproduce the behavior that sparked the click, and he's very open and creative.

I taught him "say goodnight" the other day when I had to wait for a student to go over an essay. i just put a post it note on his forehead, and clicked when he put his paw up to slide it off. After three clicks, I named it Say Goodnight, after five I took away the post it,and after ten repeats, he has a new trick. Tell him Say Goodnight, and he will hide his face&eyes under his paw. 

For serious obedience, I use the clicker for new things but not always for stuff we know inside and out.


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## dannyra (Aug 5, 2008)

Stephani, 
Thank you so much for recommending the book "The Thinking Dog". I'm not even half way through it and really like it.

In my first true target shaping exercise with Kylee I had her touching a tupperware lid. She picked it up pretty quick. Had a few moments of sitting and staring at me, but overall it was quick. 

Started off with me holding it, slowing lowering it to the floor. Once I had it on the floor I moved it all around and she did very good with it. The only problem is if I put it to far away, she grabs it and brings it back. Guess she's not getting the treats fast enough when it's at a distance. She grabs it after the click, so I don't think it's a timing issue.

I'm also able to stand up with it in my hand and she'll get on her hind legs and touch it. 

I got so into it with her I forgot to add the cue. How many success behaviors do you go before you start adding the cue in?


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## jnmarr (Mar 7, 2008)

I'd like to add Karen Pryer to your list of authors. Here is her website.. There are times the clicker is just the way to go! 

http://www.clickertraining.com/


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## dannyra (Aug 5, 2008)

jnmarr said:


> I'd like to add Karen Pryer to you list of authors. Here is her website.. There are times the clicker is just the way to go!
> 
> http://www.clickertraining.com/


Thanks, I've checked that site out. I've also read "Don't Shoot the Dog" but haven't read any of her other books, yet.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Comments below, in red!



dannyra said:


> Stephani,
> Thank you so much for recommending the book "The Thinking Dog". I'm not even half way through it and really like it.
> 
> Glad you're enjoying the book. I've heard really good things about it. I've been meaning to get my hands on a copy b/c the author, Gail Fisher, is discussing it on the APDT members' board.
> ...


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## dannyra (Aug 5, 2008)

Stephani,
The book does talk about establishing Stimulus Control...I'm just not to that part of the book yet. Still got another chapter to read before I get to that.


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## Romeo1 (Apr 19, 2008)

Ljilly28 said:


> I taught him "say goodnight" the other day when I had to wait for a student to go over an essay. i just put a post it note on his forehead, and clicked when he put his paw up to slide it off. After three clicks, I named it Say Goodnight, after five I took away the post it,and after ten repeats, he has a new trick. Tell him Say Goodnight, and he will hide his face&eyes under his paw.
> 
> .


Too cool!!


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> BTW - check out www.kathysdao.com. The story about ET the walrus makes me downright teary thinking about what they accomplished!


That's it.
I'm trading Tessie for a Walrus.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Especially when you can train it to do this:


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

Here's a question. 
Is using a clicker an advantage when you've got several people--in my case, myself, my wife and two big kids--involved in the training? 
With a clicker, each person is "speaking the same language" 
This strikes me as a special advantage with Emma, my nine-year old who'd like to train Tessie but can't muster an appropriately authoritative voice. And yet I didn't see it mentioned as an advantage and in one article the trainer specifically suggested that the kids *don't* have a clicker.

best
Allen


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

IMO the biggest problem with kids is timing and for some kids...impulse control. Being patient...
However if you click and they treat it can be just as rewarding for the child...
Its a wonderful opportunity for kids to learn about the learning process...how to come up with a training plan...how to be fair...how to break down problems into smaller components...Lots of good life lessons.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

I love the idea of adults click, kids treat. Over time, a 9-yr-old can learn when to click. However, since there's nothing "authoritative" about the sound of a clicker, I'd say that, with practice, even a 9-year-old can say "sit" and get a dog's butt to hit the floor. Consequences, not cues drive dog behavior.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> I love the idea of adults click, kids treat. Over time, a 9-yr-old can learn when to click. However, since there's nothing "authoritative" about the sound of a clicker, I'd say that, with practice, even a 9-year-old can say "sit" and get a dog's butt to hit the floor. Consequences, not cues drive dog behavior.


Stephanie
I theory, I agree.
However, Tessie's six months old. She listens to me because, well, she thinks I'm the boss and I'm around almost constantly. She listens to my wife because she feeds and walks her. She listens to Ethan my 12-year old son, because he works at it and kind of copies me. 

Which brings us to Emma, my nine year old. When Tessie was tiny, all was good. Then as Tessie got bigger and more "physical" at around four-five months it became more of a challenge for Emma. When Tessie would jump, she'd recoil or back away. She would "ask" Tessie to sit in a babyish voice, relying on her words rather than her body language and tone to convey her message. Which didn't work. 

It was Emma, not Tessie that needed to be trained. And she was. She's smart and motivated so she figured out how to relate to Tessie and get her do obey. (That Emma was the "problem" and Tessie was just being a puppy seems very clear now. But it was anything but clear at the time, as a few members who got panicked PMs about this can attest)

Emma's emergence as a trainer happened quickly--a matter of weeks--because Tessie's basically a calm dog who aims to please, and Emma's highly motivated and has the "tools" and just need to find a way to apply them. To illustrate how far we've come, Emma is now "the boss of the bone" the one in charge of making Tessie "work" for her big soup bone and ultimately giving it to her (but, of course, only with supervision and never ever letting Emma take the bone away from Tessie. I wouldn't trust most nine-year olds and most dogs/big puppies this way--but Tessie and Emma are at the far very end of the calm/responsible spectrum.)

If this had continued or if Emma was a little younger, we might have tried clicker training so that everyone in the family is speaking with the "same voice." When Emma clicked, Tessie would be hearing the echos of my training too. Obviously timing and impulse control (on the part of the clicker) is key, but I think that it could work.

Tessie still really surprises me. Our command for "lie down" is "toast" which is mostly a joke and partly a response to our using "down" to mean "off." We went to a softball game and a soccer game and Tessie was fawned over by many little girls. Not only did she behave well for all of them, I was shocked to see that they told her to "toast" and she did so right away, even without a treat in sight. I thought she understood the tone and the context (usually feeding time) and not the word so much, but I guess I was wrong. 

best
Allen


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

Also can you use the same clicker for a dog and a walrus?

allen


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## Phiddler (Sep 1, 2008)

I am also a new convert to the clicker. Zip is very enthusiastic and receptive. Those web sites, like clickertraining.com are incredibly helpful. I will definitely use the clicker from now on. It saves a lot of time.


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## Bogey's Mom (Dec 23, 2008)

I also loved "The Other End of the Leash" although I haven't taken on clicker training yet. I recommend it to all new dog owners.


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

Anybody here ever work with horses and clicking? My brother keeps his 3 miniature horses at my house and they absolutely freak out when getting their hooves trimmed. The woman that trims my horses' hooves said that the miniatures could be clicker trained to be more accepting of work done on their hooves. Stephanie...I remember when you did some clicker work with chickens. That was really amazing!


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

gold'nchocolate said:


> Anybody here ever work with horses and clicking? My brother keeps his 3 miniature horses at my house and they absolutely freak out when getting their hooves trimmed. The woman that trims my horses' hooves said that the miniatures could be clicker trained to be more accepting of work done on their hooves. Stephanie...I remember when you did some clicker work with chickens. That was really amazing!


You can absolutely desensitize horses to hoof trimming - either w/ or w/o a clicker. Alexandra Kurland has written some great books on clickertraining horses. I think you can find them on Karen Pryor's site, which I believe has a whole section on CTing horses.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

avincent52 said:


> Also can you use the same clicker for a dog and a walrus?
> 
> allen


Marine mammal trainers use a whistle.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Bogey's Mom said:


> I also loved "The Other End of the Leash" although I haven't taken on clicker training yet. I recommend it to all new dog owners.


Have you read Tales of Two Species? I thought The Other End was a fave, but Tales I think has replaced it! It's really, really good!


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