# Very aggressive after killing a bird



## zippychicken (Oct 14, 2013)

Hi everyone. I got a bit scared at the dog park today and Im hoping my goldens behaviour isn't too uncommon…
Bailey is nearly 8 months old and is a beautiful friendly dog; always going up to other people for a pat and very friendly towards other dogs. Today however she managed to escape from the dog park and caught a bird on the side of the road. She kept flinging the bird around and playing with it and of course every time I tried to get near her she growled and ran off.
I was scared she would get hit by a car and also upset about the bird, I just kept trying to get her back on the lead.
Another dog owner tried to help by distracting Bailey so I could grab her, when she started getting really aggressive towards me. I managed to clip her on and she dropped the bird to attack me (she did bite but I was wearing a thick jumper so she didn't break the skin). I pulled her away and she lunged at me snarling but not biting. I got her back to the car without a problem.

I had to return to the bird cos she didn't actually kill it but there was no way it would survive. I couldn't help but burst into tears as I stomped on its head with the heel of my boot  

This isn't the first time she has been aggressive towards something she's not allowed to have, but previous times I've managed to get her to 'leave it' when Ive waved a treat in front of her face (I didn't have any treats this time) and she has never been this bad.

I know that some of you have aggression issues with your pup but this isn't a constant thing with Bailey, the last time she growled over a possession was more than a month ago. I guess Im just scared that this behaviour will get worse. Any thoughts would be appreciated


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## zippychicken (Oct 14, 2013)

Update: Im sure she knows she's upset me, Ive been ignoring her for the past few hours and now she's come up to me, put her head on my lap and is just looking at me with those big eyes


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## kellyguy (Mar 5, 2014)

I'm hoping that others will jump in with specific advice, but I've made a few mistakes years ago in training for similar reasons. 
First, you have to accept that your dog attacking a bird is a perfectly natural instinct.
Second, you have to accept that your anxiety and actions probably caused a lot of the behavior that your upset at your dog over.
Your dog got loose and took off translates into "I haven't trained my dog to have perfect recall".
It's natural for you to be anxious when your dog is running off. Unfortunately the
rest of what you did after that point probably increased the level of excitement in your dog and it snowballs down hill from there.
I had a teenage intact highly driven boy once that did something similar, and in my panic, anger and heat of the moment scolded him when I did manage to finally catch him. It took a lot of time to overcome that, but he eventually did become remarkably obedient and expert in field work.

Try some of the articles at this blog: Puppy Tao: Dog Care and Training Articles

Good luck


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*kellyguy*

Kellyguy

Thanks for your reply.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Goldens are prey-driven hunting dogs and your dog hit the jackpot with the bird. It was extremely high value to him and he wanted to keep it. It is called resource guarding and you can look it up using the search feature at the top of the page. Hopefully he won't catch a bird again and this will never happen again, but it could if he finds anything else like that. You try discussing it with a good trainer and there is a book called "Mine" by Jean Donaldson that has good information and some tactics that can be helpful. I'm sorry you had this happen.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

This behavior has nothing to do with Aggression! Your Golden has a normal level of 'prey drive'. This breed like many other Sporting Dogs have been bred for years to build and maintain these natural instincts. Ignoring you dog is the wrong reaction, just clean him up and work on your recall obedience, as the real problem here was chasing something into the street. Many good dogs are killed because they are not properly trained to return on command.

You did a good thing by dispatching the bird and not letting it suffer. Not the easiest thing to do, but the right thing to do.

Love your dog in knowing it has good breed instincts.

Good Luck,


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## ang.suds (Apr 1, 2014)

I'm so sorry you had to put the bird out of it's misery, that is not easy. I just posted about my dog frustrating me and killing a couple squirrels, a baby bunny, and last year, a bird. I had to put the bird out of it's misery too and I just hate doing that. I also understand how you tend to feel very angry at the dog afterwards even though it isn't rational. I, too am still mad at Subira and all my dogs feel it. Deep breaths as we speak. Good luck, looks like you got some good advice from experienced dog lovers.


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## zippychicken (Oct 14, 2013)

Thanks everyone for your replies. I feel better knowing I'm not the only one who has a golden that enjoys killing things. I hear so often about goldens being so gentle towards little animals, and then I see my dog brutally attacking a bird and enjoying it!

She doesn't have perfect recall which is something we are working on at obedience school but usually she does come when she is called. I guess she was just having too much fun.

I tried to keep as calm as possible when I tried to stop her and when I finally did get her back on the lead I didn't smack or hit her, I just silently walked her back to the car and put her in. Im glad I didn't fly of the handle cos I know that would've made the situation so much worse.

Thanks nolefan for the book recommendation, Im going to look for a copy today.

Thanks again for the reassurance everybody!


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## kellyguy (Mar 5, 2014)

One funny thing I found with most goldens. Sometimes if they escape and are having way too much fun ignoring you, there may be a visual cue that will instantly bring their attention back to you. For me, it was a leash. My boys loved going for walks so much that even in the middle of the frenzy you described, if I called and held up the leash they would come running like crazy. I can't explain it, but it was like a switch turned on.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

goldlover68 said:


> This behavior has nothing to do with Aggression! Your Golden has a normal level of 'prey drive'. This breed like many other Sporting Dogs have been bred for years to build and maintain these natural instincts. Ignoring you dog is the wrong reaction, just clean him up and work on your recall obedience, as the real problem here was chasing something into the street. Many good dogs are killed because they are not properly trained to return on command.
> 
> You did a good thing by dispatching the bird and not letting it suffer. Not the easiest thing to do, but the right thing to do.
> 
> ...


I don't want to make this discussion all about "is this normal behavior for a Golden," but guarding a bird from their human is NOT correct Golden behavior. Goldens should be birdy, they should like to go after, kill and pick up birds, that is the stuff they were originally created to do. BUT and possibly more importantly, they were bred to willingly even happily "deliver to hand." That is naturally bring the prey to their handler and place it in their hand. A Golden who resource guards a bird in no use to a hunter and that trait has to be rigorously selected away from when breeding (and it is genetic).

The previous rant aside, your dog resource guards, so what to do......train, train, train. Make you dog earn attention from you. Get that recall 100%. Train your dog to pick something up and then give it to you. Put this puppy in bootcamp! Use playing with other dogs as his reward for a good training session. And know he will always have a tendency to resource guard, but if his obedience is strong enough it doesn't have to be a problem.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Honestly I would address this asap. It is not a golden retriever trait. 
Prey drive is one thing and I can understand not coming when called while chasing a bird. But snarling and biting you instead of bringing that bird to you is a major issue. I agree that your anxiety during this entire episode may have escalated his response to you. But not to the point of biting you.
Are you training with your dog in the field department at all? 
Your dog needs to learn to bring everything to you when asked. How does he do with others things/food around the house? Has he ever exhibited a tendency to guard them?


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

Claudia M said:


> Honestly I would address this asap. It is not a golden retriever trait.
> Prey drive is one thing and I can understand not coming when called while chasing a bird. But snarling and biting you instead of bringing that bird to you is a major issue. I agree that your anxiety during this entire episode may have escalated his response to you. But not to the point of biting you.
> Are you training with your dog in the field department at all?
> Your dog needs to learn to bring everything to you when asked. How does he do with others things/food around the house? Has he ever exhibited a tendency to guard them?


Claudia....I disagree with your comments....this is all perfectly normal. I have had and currently do have field trained Golden's. Until they are properly trained these behaviors are normal. 

As you see all of the other posts on this topic agree with my assessment!


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

Selli-Belle said:


> I don't want to make this discussion all about "is this normal behavior for a Golden," but guarding a bird from their human is NOT correct Golden behavior. Goldens should be birdy, they should like to go after, kill and pick up birds, that is the stuff they were originally created to do. BUT and possibly more importantly, they were bred to willingly even happily "deliver to hand." That is naturally bring the prey to their handler and place it in their hand. A Golden who resource guards a bird in no use to a hunter and that trait has to be rigorously selected away from when breeding (and it is genetic).
> 
> The previous rant aside, your dog resource guards, so what to do......train, train, train. Make you dog earn attention from you. Get that recall 100%. Train your dog to pick something up and then give it to you. Put this puppy in bootcamp! Use playing with other dogs as his reward for a good training session. And know he will always have a tendency to resource guard, but if his obedience is strong enough it doesn't have to be a problem.


I see you have a lot of training in your dogs, but no field training! Golden's commonly show 'prey drive' and 'food guarding', until they are trained away from these natural tendencies....it IS Perfectly Normal Dog Behavior!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Sorry. I have never had a dog snarl, bite or growl when they got a hold of a bird, squirrel or anything else they chased. It is not a normal behavior for a dog to growl/bite at its owner. I may see that with a 3 month old puppy that you have barely started to make a connection with but not a 10 month old. 
As a matter of fact I have seen a golden taken out of the field training due to his "too much like" of birds.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

Claudia M said:


> Sorry. I have never had a dog snarl, bite or growl when they got a hold of a bird, squirrel or anything else they chased. It is not a normal behavior for a dog to growl/bite at its owner. I may see that with a 3 month old puppy that you have barely started to make a connection with but not a 10 month old.
> As a matter of fact I have seen a golden taken out of the field training due to his "too much like" of birds.


I would suggest the reason for this is you have never owned a Golden, bred for field work!

I accept the fact that you have never experienced this, but those of us that work with field bred Golden's do see this. But it usually is controlled by proper training.


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## TrailDogs (Aug 15, 2011)

goldlover68 said:


> I would suggest the reason for this is you have never owned a Golden, bred for field work!
> 
> I accept the fact that you have never experienced this, but those of us that work with field bred Golden's do see this. But it usually is controlled by proper training.


I have never seen this in the field goldens I owned or trained with. I have seen young untrained dogs run away with birds but have never seen one bite or go after the owner when they attempted to control the dog and get the bird.
The prey drive and killing the bird is normal, biting the owner is not.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

Traildogs......So we agree to disagree!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

goldlover68 said:


> I would suggest the reason for this is you have never owned a Golden, *bred for field work*!
> 
> I accept the fact that you have never experienced this, but those of us that work with field bred Golden's do see this. But it usually is controlled by proper training.


Sorry to disappoint but we have indeed owned field goldens and top bred field goldens. Lots of prey drive. 

Prey drive does not mean growling, snapping and biting the owner. And even the other retriever breeds I have trained with never exhibited that kind of behavior.


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## goldlover68 (Jun 17, 2013)

So we too can agree to disagree! Although I do not see any field titles on your dogs listed on your posts, that was why I commented as I did...

Nuff Said...


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

This is resource guarding. It is not normal and should not continue. As others mentioned, he needs training. He needs to learn "drop it" and "recall" before he is off leash IMHO. I also had a high prey dog but never ever would he growl or bite. And no my dogs don't have field titles as I'm sure neither does the OP's. I just taught both my golden's from day one that I was not a threat regardless of anything they had in their mouths.  Good luck OP!


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

goldlover68 said:


> I see you have a lot of training in your dogs, but no field training! Golden's commonly show 'prey drive' and 'food guarding', until they are trained away from these natural tendencies....it IS Perfectly Normal Dog Behavior!


I think you just made my point! You say resource guarding is natural for a Golden who has no field training. Well I have had three Goldens with no field training and none of them EVER resource guarded. I know Goldens of all types and have spoken to breeders of MH retrievers and they have all stated that resource guarding is not normal.

Finally, if we ever to the point where resource guarding is an acceptable part of the Golden temperament, then we have ruined the breed.


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## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

You've gotten some really great suggestions on training. Mine is a really great book that was recommended and Tippy's blog has some great training articles. What you need to do is teach your dog that coming back to you with a high value item doesn't mean the high value item is going to get taken away. Right now, especially during the episode, your dog knew that you were going to snatch away it's prize. What was it going to do? Anything it could to protect its prize of course - resource guarding. Its very common and nothing that training can't work out. The key is building trust and making your dog feel safe. You start with low value items and build up. 

Start with a toy that your dog doesn't care about as much. Toss it for him and have him bring it back, but don't take it from him. Just pet him and tell him how great he is. He might drop it automatically, that's fine. Then start using higher value items. Does your dog like bumpers? When training my boys for field I don't bother taking away their birds or bumpers when they bring them back to me. I let them show them off to me, give them a nice back rub while they get to hold them a bit longer until the next retrieve. It encourages a stronger recall, much more apt to come back if they know you're not going to steal their prize. I have no titles so this could be bad advice for field, but it should help with resource guarding. 

Whenever you ask him for something, trade with something thats of similar or higher value to your dog. If you found 5$ on the ground and your friend snatched it out of your hand and took it from you and gave you nothing in exchange you wouldn't be very happy would you? This is how the dog is feeling. Eventually, you'll be able to get away from having to do this in every situations so in emergency situations you can get the sharp object out of your dogs mouth without worrying.


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