# Fence charging and obnoxious barking



## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

Does this happen only when they can see the dogs or is it when they know by smell?

Are they too aroused to take treats when another dog is near the fence?


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## Gleepers (Apr 20, 2016)

Anele said:


> Does this happen only when they can see the dogs or is it when they know by smell?
> 
> Are they too aroused to take treats when another dog is near the fence?


I’d say visual (or they hear them). There are occasions that a dog will walk right past and they are to busy sniffing something else to notice. 

Arousal level seems to depend. Dogs that walk past all the time the reaction is much stronger. If I can catch it before the dog gets to the actual fence I’ve got about an 80% success rate of calling them in and the will come running for their treat. 
Much harder if I’m to late and they are on the side of the fence. Perhaps 20% if the time and depends on the other dog. 

(Just as I was typing they saw a dog walking out the front window, started barking. I stood up, shooshed and treated and they stayed quiet while the dog walked past.)


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

I don't really have advice but a little empathy. My Bichon is a constant barker and Rukie sometimes follows her lead-- especially if someone comes to the door. I was thinking about the adage of train what you want them to do instead but it's pretty hard to get their attention to do anything with them when they get going. I think if I had Rukie by himself I could make better progress but that's not usually an option.


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## Gleepers (Apr 20, 2016)

cwag said:


> I don't really have advice but a little empathy. My Bichon is a constant barker and Rukie sometimes follows her lead-- especially if someone comes to the door. I was thinking about the adage of train what you want them to do instead but it's pretty hard to get their attention to do anything with them when they get going. I think if I had Rukie by himself I could make better progress but that's not usually an option.


It’s got to be a common problem. I’d say at least one house on every block around here has an obnoxious barker and or fence charger. 

With a leash reactive dog you get pretty good at knowing which stretches of sidewalk to avoid. Ted has come a loooong way. (At least on walks).


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## LdyTlfrd (Jan 11, 2017)

I have a 3 member K9 security system that does that. It doesn't help that I have a corner lot home. My yard has a wooden fence along the sidewalk and chain link fence where it backs into a parkette. We had put up cedar trees along the chain link fence for privacy. After Phoenix came along, he would go under the tree to bark at people in the parkette, so we put up 8' x 4' lattice. Now that more families have moved into the area, we noticed there were also more dogs too. Now, Phoenix, Luna and Dau run along the fence and bark as well as when a dog walks by the house when they're indoors. 

I can usually time their "business" or "play" time before and after the elementary school kids are about. Kids running by can set them off as well. We can usually corral them indoors before but there are times we miss the mark. 

Hubby says we should move, but I said that wouldn't solve the barking at dogs problem. I look at it as a work in progress and am trying to get everyone on board.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

Gleepers said:


> I’d say visual (or they hear them). There are occasions that a dog will walk right past and they are to busy sniffing something else to notice.
> 
> Arousal level seems to depend. Dogs that walk past all the time the reaction is much stronger. If I can catch it before the dog gets to the actual fence I’ve got about an 80% success rate of calling them in and the will come running for their treat.
> Much harder if I’m to late and they are on the side of the fence. Perhaps 20% if the time and depends on the other dog.
> ...


What if... not saying this would work... and maybe you've tried it already...

(1) Find a way to visually block the fence if it's not blocked now.

(2) You no longer let them out unattended (for now).

(3) You only let one dog out at a time (for now).

(4) You take turns training each dog with very high value treats while a dog is passing by. Different things you could try-- depends on the arousal level of the dog:

a. Training through the passing of the dog by doing obedience drills or tricks or whatever you want. In other words, the dog is passing by and you see if you can get your dog to focus on you but you cue your dog.
b. Waiting until your dog looks at you instead of the dog-- no cue from you. You wait until your dog makes the choice to look at you.
c. Waiting for a long enough pause in the barking to treat your dog for being quiet, even if your dog isn't looking at you.
d. Scattering treats on the ground (many) when a dog approaches.

This all depends on if your dog is too over-the-top.

NOW. If your dog is over-the-top, you can still try these things, only you may have to set up an ex-pen some distance from the actual fence and try these ideas there with your dog, if possible. Because then you are adding distance as a barrier... as things improve, you would move the ex-pen closer to the fence. 

Another option is to practice all of these things, inc. recall, when there is no dog around. Again, one of your dogs at a time. 

You could work on Dr. Overall's Relaxation Protocol, too. First inside, then move it outside.

Another idea... stuff Kongs with very high value treats and freeze. Again, with your supervision and presence, you would see if they would focus on this instead of a passing dog. It will depend which is more exciting (Kong or dog) if this would work.


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## Gleepers (Apr 20, 2016)

Anele said:


> Gleepers said:
> 
> 
> > I’d say visual (or they hear them). There are occasions that a dog will walk right past and they are to busy sniffing something else to notice.
> ...


Fence is 6ft wood. Thinking about running another fence inside the yard. 

2) pretty much the current method of opporation. Sometimes I’m in the kitchen just off the yard. 

3) one dog at a time makes no difference. Tried that. 

The rest of the suggestions might work. I’ll jot some notes and give them a try


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## Gleepers (Apr 20, 2016)

LdyTlfrd said:


> I have a 3 member K9 security system that does that. It doesn't help that I have a corner lot home. My yard has a wooden fence along the sidewalk and chain link fence where it backs into a parkette. We had put up cedar trees along the chain link fence for privacy. After Phoenix came along, he would go under the tree to bark at people in the parkette, so we put up 8' x 4' lattice. Now that more families have moved into the area, we noticed there were also more dogs too. Now, Phoenix, Luna and Dau run along the fence and bark as well as when a dog walks by the house when they're indoors.
> 
> I can usually time their "business" or "play" time before and after the elementary school kids are about. Kids running by can set them off as well. We can usually corral them indoors before but there are times we miss the mark.
> 
> Hubby says we should move, but I said that wouldn't solve the barking at dogs problem. I look at it as a work in progress and am trying to get everyone on board.


I feel ya. We have 6ft wood all the way around but our property is on the corner and backs to the elementary school. 
Luckily they don’t go to nuts over the daily kid/parent march. Usually just the friendly hi I’m here bark. Pretty calm. I don’t think they want to scare the kids. They both adore children more than anything.


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## Gleepers (Apr 20, 2016)

I just looked up that Protacol for Relaxiation. 
That looks like a great thing on many levels.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

Sorry-- I was not very clear.

Now, I don't know how high-traffic an area you are in, so again, this may not work.

But, if you aren't doing it already, I'd take them out one at a time and ONLY to do their business IF you can time it so that there are no passerbys. 

The ONLY time they would be out is, again, one at a time for TRAINING. In other words, they would have zero opportunity to practice the unwanted behavior. The time spent near the fence (for now) would be completely structured. 

(Sorry for the caps... I am too lazy to use italics... not trying to shout.)

If it wouldn't work, and it's too high traffic for even that, then I'd seriously consider (for now) making them do their business on walks only (if they do) and again, the fence access would only be for training.

I'd try it for at least 3 weeks consistently... maybe min 6 depending on the dogs and see if it makes a difference, and then go from there.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

I had a reactive golden who would run the fence and get all wound up whenever the dogs next door were out. What eventually worked pretty well for me was a modification of the "Premack Principle" where I rewarded good behavior with allowing him to do the thing he wanted. How I started was that I would go to the fence where he was running and, assuming my dog wasn't so "over threshold" that he wouldn't take food, I got a treat under his nose and led him away from the fence (if he was really ramped up I might need to lead him by the collar until he was far enough away to get his brain back and take the treats). The further we got from the fence, the faster the treats came. When we got well away from the fence, I'd turn back toward the neighbors yard, give him a few more treats to ensure I had his attention, and tell him "OK!" and let him run back to the fence if he wanted. I'd give him a few seconds to run the fence line and then go back to him and repeat the process. 

Eventually, I could call him from across the yard and he'd leave the fence and come to me, I'd "celebrate" and tell him what a great dog he was and stuff him full of treats for 30 seconds or so, and then give him the release command that gave him permission to go back and run the fence. What eventually happened was that each time I released him he either came back more quickly or didn't go all the way to the fenceline before turning around and coming back to me for his treats (even without my calling him). Sometimes he only went a few yards away from me before turning back for his treats. Even when he did run the fence, he got so he was much less "ramped up", especially if the dogs were 50 feet away in their own yard (if they came right to our fence then the only thing I could do is take his collar or put him on leash and try to calmly pull/walk him away). 

This process helped a LOT... to the point that even when I wasn't outside to do the treat/reward process he didn't run the fenceline with as much passion, and I was often able to just call him in from the doorway if I thought he was getting too ramped up or if the barking had gone on too long. Often, if I was outside and we were playing fetch or doing agility, he'd even just give the dogs next door a quick bark and a long stare and then come back to keep playing with me.

It sounds like you're already ahead of the game since your dog is already to the point where he'll come when you call, so try just rewarding the come really heavily and then giving him permission to go back to the fence if he wants. I'll be curious to hear if you have the same success I had!


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## Gleepers (Apr 20, 2016)

pawsnpaca said:


> I had a reactive golden who would run the fence and get all wound up whenever the dogs next door were out. What eventually worked pretty well for me was a modification of the "Premack Principle" where I rewarded good behavior with allowing him to do the thing he wanted. How I started was that I would go to the fence where he was running and, assuming my dog wasn't so "over threshold" that he wouldn't take food, I got a treat under his nose and led him away from the fence (if he was really ramped up I might need to lead him by the collar until he was far enough away to get his brain back and take the treats). The further we got from the fence, the faster the treats came. When we got well away from the fence, I'd turn back toward the neighbors yard, give him a few more treats to ensure I had his attention, and tell him "OK!" and let him run back to the fence if he wanted. I'd give him a few seconds to run the fence line and then go back to him and repeat the process.
> 
> Eventually, I could call him from across the yard and he'd leave the fence and come to me, I'd "celebrate" and tell him what a great dog he was and stuff him full of treats for 30 seconds or so, and then give him the release command that gave him permission to go back and run the fence. What eventually happened was that each time I released him he either came back more quickly or didn't go all the way to the fenceline before turning around and coming back to me for his treats (even without my calling him). Sometimes he only went a few yards away from me before turning back for his treats. Even when he did run the fence, he got so he was much less "ramped up", especially if the dogs were 50 feet away in their own yard (if they came right to our fence then the only thing I could do is take his collar or put him on leash and try to calmly pull/walk him away).
> 
> ...


This is pretty much what I’ve been doing for the past few weeks. 
(And a lot more restricted access)

I am seeing some positive results but not there yet. 

***venting alert*****

I’m feeling a bit worn down. Nearly 2 years now of constant work and daily training, trying to work on the issue du jour. 
I just took them out on a nice destination walk and they both were little spazzes. My nice stroll ended up as a bunch of halts and sits and heals and stays. 
They are both great dogs. Good personalities. I know one day we will get there. Some days it just feels like never ending effort. 
I miss my old senior fully domesticated dogs. Even if rationally I know that they were far far worse than my current pooches at this age. 

*****end pity part*****


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## Gleepers (Apr 20, 2016)

Just an update
It’s been a month, well more like the better part of 4 that I’ve been working on this. 

There is noticeable improvement. 
I’ve been much more restrictive of their time outside. I’ve gotten most of the family on board to help. 
Both dogs are getting more consistent at coming in when called, and their recall at training has improved as well. They are much calmer when people walk on the opposite side of the street even not barking occasionally. And we are also working on not barking at people walking out front of the house. 
Not there yet but progress is being made. 
Just keep swimming.


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## cwag (Apr 25, 2017)

That's good encouragement for the rest of us to patiently keep at training. Our issue is leash pulling and I see a little progress starting there. When we have a bad day, it's easy to think we have zero progress even though that's not true.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Absolutely - 'keep swimming'! and don't forget to reinforce the calm (and quiet) behaviors you want to see them repeat. (Don't take the 'good stuff' for granted!)

Two of my dogs used to be frequent barkers, I have found that teaching them an 'emergency' recall cue ('Here!) (once they had learned that it is highly rewarded in non-aroused situations with the best of the best of treats -every time), was quite effective in redirecting their focus and coming to me, when they had gone over the top, and could hear nothing else.


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## Gleepers (Apr 20, 2016)

We went through the leash pulling issue about this time last year. 
I’m happy to report that both dogs are pretty darn awesome on leash most of the time. Just in the last few months there has been a huge improvement with true loose leash walking. Ted (the little guy) was horribly leash reactive and has come a long way in that too. He still has issues when we pass other dogs but hope to really work on that this summer when the kids are out of school and I’ve got a dedicated hand to focus on him. (I make my 12 year old take Penny). For now we are enjoying very pleasant walks in somewhat unpopulated areas. 

Bad days happen to the best of us. I’m certainly not immune to them.


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## Gleepers (Apr 20, 2016)

Charlie3 (phone won’t let me quote)
That’s essentially what I’m doing. Both in and out of the house. Slowly it seems to be working.


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