# What are Your Training Methods



## FishinBuddy (Nov 20, 2008)

What are your training methods (i.e. clicker, prong, choker, martingale (spelling?), remote/e-collar, pos. Only, other?) How do you employ them?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm a big fan of going to watch a couple of training classes in your area to see what each one uses and get a feel for the trainer...
and then join the one you like best!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I use praise motivation backed up/encouraged sporadically by treats. When you start with an 8 week old pup and you train a little every day, you can ingrain lifelong training habits early. There's nothing like a dog who sees you about to start a practice session and runs over, drops into a sit, and stares in your face...waiting...what will the command be?

I used the Monks of New Skete book, _The Art of Raising a Puppy_. People on the board will probably chime in to point out it's outdated in some ways, and they're right, but the puppy development schedule is spot on, and the positive parts of their pre-training regimen are really effective. If you use the book, realize that it's harsher than necessary for Golden Retrievers (their training experience is with GSDs) and that some of the dominance-based theory should be taken with a big grain of salt.

Still, they do have great, non-coercive advice on getting dogs to bond, focus, and obey.


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## FishinBuddy (Nov 20, 2008)

I use a combination approach I would say. I use the clicker a lot to teach new behaviors. I also use my voice or a martingale to correct unacceptable behaviors.


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## FishinBuddy (Nov 20, 2008)

Tippy I totally understand...my little guy will come up to me or my wife and sit, down, rollover, wave left and right paws to see what will get him praise. He will always sit first probably because that is the first command he learned.....


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Yeah, if you call Comet to you in the house, particularly in the room we train in, he sprints over, sits, and quivers. If you wait long enough, he'll run through his tricks as fast as he can, simultaneously if possible. Bark and lie down is a favorite.

As far as corrections, it's all verbal. Incorrect tricks are ignored, disobedience or ignoring gets a gentle chide, which is typically enough. Both the guys are sensitive souls. On the leash, we use a regular flat collar and gentle "pops" to correct. Comet learned in puppy class that if he walked at my hip and looked up, I'd cram treats in his mouth, so even on the leash, he tends to do that. Frickin' adorable.


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## LucyD (Nov 20, 2008)

Lucy is so cute when she sits... I love it! She just stands there and looks at me and waits. She learned sit pretty fast and now she is learning down, but everything little by little. I also am teaching her with shake and she does it when I have peanut butter! haha


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Depending on the particular dog and venue I have used all those methods, and I think somewhat successfully, with the the clicker being the lone exception. Never tried it.


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## FishinBuddy (Nov 20, 2008)

I love the clicker!!!!! I have always had dogs that were basic obedience trained but for some reason Bailey boy is taking very fast and stong to basic/tricks with the clicker. He just yesterday learned back up (walking away from me backwards) He can get just about 10-15 feet with verbal command only....

Tippy tricks and obedience are two totally different animals...I never "correct" during training tricks...I do correct in basic obedience..gentle leash corrections


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

FishinBuddy said:


> I love the clicker!!!!! I have always had dogs that were basic obedience trained but for some reason Bailey boy is taking very fast and stong to basic/tricks with the clicker. He just yesterday learned back up (walking away from me backwards) He can get just about 10-15 feet with verbal command only....
> 
> Tippy tricks and obedience are two totally different animals...I never "correct" during training tricks...I do correct in basic obedience..gentle leash corrections


Could you explain how you're differentiating? When I said "tricks," I meant any command that requires action from the dog, like "come," "sit," "shake," "stand up," "stay," etc. For manners, it's correction-only (not jumping up, etc.).

The only tricks I really correct for are come, sit, stay, and lie down. If Comet doesn't shake, I just ignore for a sec.

I think we probably do really similar things, just not the same terms.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

FishinBuddy said:


> Tippy tricks and obedience are two totally different animals...I never "correct" during training tricks...I do correct in basic obedience..gentle leash corrections


I think just the opposite! I like to think of it all as a "trick". Getting a relaible recall is no less a trick than getting a dog to roll over.

It's all behavior.

To me, thinking of it all is tricks helps keep training fun.

I also do very few positive punishment leash corrections. Most of the time, it's just like "nagging" to the dog. I'll use a leash to interrupt a behavior - like the dog is about to dart away and I grab the leash. I try to set the dogs up to be successful, ignore incorrect attempts, redirect unwanted behavior and reward generously for things I want and like.


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## FishinBuddy (Nov 20, 2008)

Agreed Quiz and Tippy,
I probably should have said "two different animals IN MY CRAZY MIND" or "I prioritize them differently"
It is all fun but I do not "correct" if my pup doesn't wave left paw when i say wave left paw. I ignore and try again. If my dog jumps on a visitor I correct. I differentiate tricks (in my mind and opinion) as never necessary for the safety and general manners of the dog. I don't think a dog NEEDS to know how to rollover or NEEDS to know how to jump through a hoop, actions which I consider tricks. I feel a dog NEEDS to have a reliable recall, NEEDS to know sit, stay etc. That is my differentiation. Tippy I believe we were pretty much on the same track just different verbiage. I say can of soda some say can of pop...still the same stuff....


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

I would consider myself a primarily positive trainer. When I am training I am collarless or train with a regular flat-buckle collar. I use treats and/or play as rewards. I use my voice to correct if needed, or just do not reward. As FlyingQuizini said I will use the leash to interrupt an unwanted behavior, but that is not often.

As for house manners like jumping when greeting or begging for food I prefer to train an incompatible behavior like going to lay in their crates (always open). 

I have done some shaping with a clicker, but I mostly use the word "yes" as a marker when learning something new.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

FishinBuddy said:


> Agreed Quiz and Tippy,
> I probably should have said "two different animals IN MY CRAZY MIND" or "I prioritize them differently"
> It is all fun but I do not "correct" if my pup doesn't wave left paw when i say wave left paw. I ignore and try again. If my dog jumps on a visitor I correct. I differentiate tricks (in my mind and opinion) as never necessary for the safety and general manners of the dog. I don't think a dog NEEDS to know how to rollover or NEEDS to know how to jump through a hoop, actions which I consider tricks. I feel a dog NEEDS to have a reliable recall, NEEDS to know sit, stay etc. That is my differentiation. Tippy I believe we were pretty much on the same track just different verbiage. I say can of soda some say can of pop...still the same stuff....


I figured that was the case. I do have non-negotiable skills I'm willing to correct for, particularly the big four (come, sit, lie down, stay). I will say that with both my dogs, once or twice during puppyhood, I negatively reinforced "come" when I was absolutely sure the dog was ignoring me despite understanding the command. That negative reinforcement involved yelling "no" and tackling the dog. Not painful, by any means, just unpleasant for them. So, while I could still outrun them, the dogs learned that I am able to enforce that command. So when they grow up and they _can_ get away, they still have the ingrained belief that I can fall from the sky like an avenging fury and catch them. I need to know their recall is unshakeable, so I thought it was important to underscore hours and hours of positive reinforcement with the ability to make them feel like they're "in trouble" from a distance.

I've relied on it when something truly exciting (another dog for example) comes along and the dogs are off-leash. I know if I have to, I can negatively interrupt their behavior from a distance.

But to the dog, it's all tricks anyway. They don't know that "sit" is in important manners issue and "give paw" is a cute trick. Comet certainly thinks barking on command is the most important thing he knows how to do.


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## AcesWild (Nov 29, 2008)

I use NILIF with Moxie. Because she's a terrier. She is too sensitive for e-collor (the sound not the shock is the issue)


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## FishinBuddy (Nov 20, 2008)

tippykayak said:


> I figured that was the case. I do have non-negotiable skills I'm willing to correct for, particularly the big four (come, sit, lie down, stay)...
> ...But to the dog, it's all tricks anyway. They don't know that "sit" is in important manners issue and "give paw" is a cute trick. Comet certainly thinks barking on command is the most important thing he knows how to do.


Agreed. 
.I still need work on the recall. I think your method is interesting. Sometimes in the yard he comes sometimes he doesn't. I don't want to give chase and have him think its a game. We are starting a class (first time in my life I have ever went to a class) hopefully in January and I hope I learn a few things to improve my skills. I feel like I have/can train a dog to do many things/tricks etc. My weakness is the recall and I am trying to make this one bullet proof....


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

FishinBuddy said:


> Agreed.
> .I still need work on the recall. I think your method is interesting. Sometimes in the yard he comes sometimes he doesn't. I don't want to give chase and have him think its a game. We are starting a class (first time in my life I have ever went to a class) hopefully in January and I hope I learn a few things to improve my skills. I feel like I have/can train a dog to do many things/tricks etc. My weakness is the recall and I am trying to make this one bullet proof....


It's important that the dog _never_ succeeds in a game of chase. If you can't be sure you'll get him, don't chase him. And, if you can't enforce "come" while you're training it, don't say it. Keep him on a long lead and pop it (don't yank, pop) if you say "come" and he ignores you or forgets partway back.

Or, if he's off lead, stamp your feet, whistle, wave treats, whatever, and say "come" _only_ once he's on his way. Once he learns the command reliably, you can of course say it, but while he's still in a phase where he might ignore it, you don't want him to hear the actual command then have the option to choose not to obey it.

And never, never, never yell at the dog when he's coming toward you, even if he's been a total stinker.


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## FishinBuddy (Nov 20, 2008)

Thanks for the great advice.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

FishinBuddy said:


> What are your training methods (i.e. clicker, prong, choker, martingale (spelling?), remote/e-collar, pos. Only, other?) How do you employ them?


All of those items are aversives. They do not train dogs. They support training.

I train puppies via Operant Conditioning/treat training. As they mature to 4-6 months, we get more formal. Leash & prong, heeling stick and e-collar are my preferred aversives, but at no time do I lean on them to perform the training. My training method? Smartwork.


Training is a three-phase process:
*Teach*; the first and most important, is the guiding of behavior and then rewarding it
*Force*; often misunderstood, it is the application of pressure to formalize teaching and convert it into training that is both stable and reliable
*Reinforce*; also misunderstood by many. It is essentially the maintenance of previous training via repetition, praise & correction when needed
EvanG
www.rushcreekpress.com


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

EvanG said:


> All of those items are aversives. They do not train dogs. They support training.
> 
> I train puppies via Operant Conditioning/treat training. As they mature to 4-6 months, we get more formal. Leash & prong, heeling stick and e-collar are my preferred aversives, but at no time do I lean on them to perform the training. My training method? Smartwork.
> 
> ...


 

What he said! :dblthumb2




> *Reinforce*; also misunderstood by many. It is essentially the maintenance of previous training via repetition, praise & correction when needed


This is where many pet owners fail. They spend some time and effort teaching basic skills, maybe even taking a OB class or two with a new pup, but then they let things slide and the dogs skills erode. 

Maintaining good OB skills and manners requires ongoing life long effort on the part of the owner/handler. It only takes a few minutes a day, but it pays HUGE dividends when it comes to having a well behaved dog. 

.


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## Bock (Jun 23, 2008)

I use clicker training and verbal corrections and leash corrections in some extreme cases, but not hard.


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