# Raw Rave



## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

I switched Cody to Raw food about 1.5 months ago and I can not say enough at how well he is doing. I am so amazed at the changes.
His stools are now a normal size, his energy level is through the roof(not hyper) just very active. He seems so much more satisfied with his diet that he isn't trying to steal everything and anything. And his teeth, they are so clean I show his teeth to everyone who I think might care, lol

If you are thinking of doing a swtich to raw don't hesitate. I hesitated for far too long and I am so glad I finaly just did it.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Glad Cody is having such success with it!! The changes were like night and day when I switched Sam too... over 2 years ago now! Haven't looked back, and both my dogs are thriving and extremely happy with it too


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Cost-wise, how does feeding raw compare to feeding kibble? With three dogs, I am afraid it might be cost prohibitive for me to feed them raw. Any thoughts or suggestions?


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I figure I average under $2.00 a pound. So while more expensive than your cheap kibbles, it cost less than I was paying for higher quality kibble.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

I try to average a $1/pound (I feed 3 goldens and 5 cats). I utilize a lot of free deer (road killed or hunted), but to do that you have to be able to butcher it yourself to make it cost effective. Also, I raise a lot of my own meat. I raise well over 100 chickens per year-I take the breast for DH and I, the rest goes to the dogs. I also raise ducks, geese, and sometimes rabbits strictly for the dogs. I'm looking forward to the day when I can raise goats and sheep for the dogs.

At this point (probably 11 years in to this), I feel like it costs less monetarily for me to feed raw than kibble, but it definitely costs more time wise. But I'm a hands on/self sufficient type of person, so the trade is worth it to me.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

How about when you travel? We are planning a vacation next summer where we will be on the road two days there and two days back. The place where we will be staying only has one grocery store (it's an island), so we will have to purchase 99.9% of the groceries on the mainland before we ferry over to the island.

Does anyone have good raw feeding websites?


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

For traveling, put whatever you feed into meal size plastic bags or containers and freeze. Then keep it in an ice chest as you travel and feed as needed.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

fostermom said:


> Cost-wise, how does feeding raw compare to feeding kibble? With three dogs, I am afraid it might be cost prohibitive for me to feed them raw. Any thoughts or suggestions?


It depends. If you're feeding a commercial prepared raw it's more expensive than feeding or grinding your own meats. There are places in the country with meat co-ops that make it possible to buy large quantities of meat at a time. At Thanksgiving time I can get turkey necks from a local organic farmer for about $.50/each - I buy as many as I can get at into my freezer.

I've sort of moved away from raw - mostly the convenience factor - trying to travel with hunks of raw ground chicken is tough. I've moved towards the dehydrated raw foods - sojo, honest kitchen and addiction - which seem really expensive until you realize that 1lb of dehydrated food can make 5+ pounds of raw food....

Honest kitchen also has a veggie/nutrient pack that you just add meat to - it makes a good pre-mix for someone starting out making their own raw food.


Erica


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

When I travel, I just go to the store and buy the appropriate number of chicken quarters or what ever I want to feed. If I need something for a meal or two that doesn't require refrigeration, I bring a can or two of mackerel.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

fostermom said:


> Cost-wise, how does feeding raw compare to feeding kibble? With three dogs, I am afraid it might be cost prohibitive for me to feed them raw. Any thoughts or suggestions?


If you have the ability to buy and use a chest freezer, you can buy meat in bulk and it's much much cheaper that way. I buy all the dog's meat at an average of 50 cents per pound. Some things like chicken are more like 35-40 cents, some things like pork are more like 65 cents, and then if I find a good deal on even more expensive cuts like beef, that can run more in the $1/pound neighborhood. Either way, that's a hell of a lot less expensive than a good grain free kibble that I would need to be feeding my dogs due to Sam's allergies.

Of course, this is all if you feed your own raw diet, not one of the premade raw options which will definitely run you a lot more.





fostermom said:


> How about when you travel? We are planning a vacation next summer where we will be on the road two days there and two days back. The place where we will be staying only has one grocery store (it's an island), so we will have to purchase 99.9% of the groceries on the mainland before we ferry over to the island.



When we have traveled with the dogs, we just decided not to deal with the hassle of bringing an ice chest with us everywhere, or having to grocery shop, and decided to buy The Honest Kitchen to give them. Since all we had to do was add warm water to it, we could feed it to them even while on the road at a rest stop (we brought jugs of water, left them in the bed of the truck and it was nice and warm from the sun lol)

If you wanted to continue their normal meat diet while on trips, you could just bring an ice chest, or do some grocery shopping on your trip easily. We just didn't want to deal with the hassle on our road trip, but had we been at a house or something with access to a freezer, we may have done that.


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

I honestly do it the lazy way and buy premade patties. And no, we don;t have more money then we have brains but I just don't have the time to be making my own ground meats at this time in my life. Plus the patties (Arusha and Urban Carnivore) have the entire ground carcass in the patties. Arusha adds more organ meats then UC does so it is a bit more expensive.

If you are on a tight budget you can buy chicken patties for as little as $12 for 8, and you would need about 2 packs a week to feed a golden. Cody hates the ground up chicken(go figure) so he eats Llama and beef patties.
To cut the costs back I give him 1 pattie in the morning with either a chicken leg or a chicken back. The bones are needed to keep their teeth clean and also gives them that statisfaction of chewing on something.
He also gets a veggie/fruit mix that I make myself with cheap leafy greens and any fruit we have in the house that is not good enough for us to eat.
Once it is going off I just throw it all in the freezer for a while and then blend it up, no cooking needed. Some people don't use veggies/fruit at all but I found cody was getting really sold stools and decided to add them. he is doing very well with the mix.

The key to raw is to mix it up. try to feed at least 2 if not more protien sources. Give chicken and beef one week and Llama and elk another week.

if you have slaughter houses in your area a lot of times they will sell the throw away meats for very little money. Chicken necks, backs and feet are very cheap and can even be found in gocery stores.

There are also a few yahoo groups for raw feeders. I joined one when I was in the process of switching and they were very helpfull.

as for travelling, we haven't done any yet, but I think we will do a cooler thing, or even just go buy some ground beef and chicken legs from a store.
If we travel without the dog we will have to pay for a house sitter to come in and feed him. I haven't looked into it but I am assuming kennels wont feed raw, but again, I haven't looked into it and who knows there may be kennel owners out there who feed raw.

Raw is as cheap or as expensive as you want it to be. there are so many options now.


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

missmarstar said:


> When we have traveled with the dogs, we just decided not to deal with the hassle of bringing an ice chest with us everywhere, or having to grocery shop, and decided to buy The Honest Kitchen to give them. Since all we had to do was add warm water to it, we could feed it to them even while on the road at a rest stop (we brought jugs of water, left them in the bed of the truck and it was nice and warm from the sun lol)
> 
> If you wanted to continue their normal meat diet while on trips, you could just bring an ice chest, or do some grocery shopping on your trip easily. We just didn't want to deal with the hassle on our road trip, but had we been at a house or something with access to a freezer, we may have done that.


How did they adjust to the change in diet?
I can get SMACK which is a localy made product. Costs more then raw(big shock).
if kennels wont feed raw the SMACK might be an option, and like you said great for travelling.
I would just be worried about the change in food.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

MyCodyBoy said:


> How did they adjust to the change in diet?
> I can get SMACK which is a localy made product. Costs more then raw(big shock).
> if kennels wont feed raw the SMACK might be an option, and like you said great for travelling.
> I would just be worried about the change in food.




Their poops were a little less firm, but not soft or mushy whatsoever. Just more like what well-formed poops on kibble are like, and less like raw-fed "poop pebbles" as we so lovingly call them in my house.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

MyCodyBoy said:


> I honestly do it the lazy way and buy premade patties. And no, we don;t have more money then we have brains but I just don't have the time to be making my own ground meats at this time in my life.



Just one thing to note, you don't have to grind the meats if you feed your own raw diet and actually it is quite beneficial if you don't. Chewing the raw bones is great mental stimulation for dogs and satisfies their chewing needs and urges, as well as cleans their teeth. If you are feeding a solely pre-made patty raw diet, I'd definitely throw in a raw chicken quarter or wing a few times a week! 


PS I don't consider using the premade patties the lazy way. Heck if I could afford it for my two, I'd do it. I think it's a great option to have, especially for someone who is new to raw feeding and still learning, or doesn't have the room for a chest freezer to buy in bulk.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions. I have been back and forth on feeding raw, but I also know that there are specific nutritional requirements that we would have to meet and I am scared to death that I would deprive them of a necessary nutrient(s).


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

fostermom said:


> Thanks for the ideas and suggestions. I have been back and forth on feeding raw, but I also know that there are specific nutritional requirements that we would have to meet and I am scared to death that I would deprive them of a necessary nutrient(s).


I think that is a huge myth and missconception. If they are eating bones, meats, organ meats, fruits/veggie, the occassional eggs(whole egg shell and all) they get all they need. I strongly feel that commercial foods are overlfowing with so much added nutrition, not even in a natural form even.

If you are concenrend you can buy powders and oils to add to their foods specificaly made for the raw diet. You can buy glucosamin supplements too, but I heard just feeding them chicken feet will give them the glucosamin they need.

Cody has seriously sensative ears that adding anything makes him flair up right now. I tried adding some fish oils and it was not a good result, his ear flaired up almost instantly(I suspect fish allergy)


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

We feed him 2 chicken backs a day with 2 patties. Sometimes I will buy meaty beef bones but those are so much harder to eat. He also likes chicken legs as well. I like to make sure he gets the meaty bones so his teeth stay clean.



missmarstar said:


> Just one thing to note, you don't have to grind the meats if you feed your own raw diet and actually it is quite beneficial if you don't. Chewing the raw bones is great mental stimulation for dogs and satisfies their chewing needs and urges, as well as cleans their teeth. If you are feeding a solely pre-made patty raw diet, I'd definitely throw in a raw chicken quarter or wing a few times a week!
> 
> 
> PS I don't consider using the premade patties the lazy way. Heck if I could afford it for my two, I'd do it. I think it's a great option to have, especially for someone who is new to raw feeding and still learning, or doesn't have the room for a chest freezer to buy in bulk.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

fostermom said:


> Thanks for the ideas and suggestions. I have been back and forth on feeding raw, but I also know that there are specific nutritional requirements that we would have to meet and I am scared to death that I would deprive them of a necessary nutrient(s).


If that is the only thing holding you back then I'd suggest trying a pre-mix and adding your own raw meat/bones to that...Honest Kitchen has a product called "preference" which doesn't contain any meat - just vegetables and a nutrient pack. It's dehydrated so you add water, stir, soak and once you add fresh meat it's nutritionally complete...no fuss..

Erica


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

MurphyTeller said:


> If that is the only thing holding you back then I'd suggest trying a pre-mix and adding your own raw meat/bones to that...Honest Kitchen has a product called "preference" which doesn't contain any meat - just vegetables and a nutrient pack. It's dehydrated so you add water, stir, soak and once you add fresh meat it's nutritionally complete...no fuss..
> 
> Erica


I'll look into that. It's not the only thing holding me back, if I had one dog, I would switch in a heartbeat, but it gets expensive feeding 3 of them. I am reading that I need to feed each dog between 2.4 and 3 lbs of meat a day. But I still have to research the butchers around here. My son works at Food Lion, so we may be able to get a good price on the "less desirable" cuts of meat. We also have a good relationship with the butcher at Harris Teeter (which is where we get most of our meat).


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I'm not sure where you found those amounts, but that's a lot of food. You typically will feed between 2-3% of the dog's body weight. So for my 70 pound dog, I feed just under a pound and a half. Even 2% of a 100 pound dog would be just two pounds.The biggest thing you have to look for if you are doing raw yourself is to make sure that the meat is unenhanced. Chicken especially is notorious for being enhanced with broth, which greatly increases sodium content. Meat should be under 100 mg per serving, otherwise consider it enhanced.Chicken quarters are the main part of my dogs' diet, which I get regular priced for 85 cents per pound, or as low as 39 cents per pound on sale.I also feed turkey, beef, lamb, pork, and fish so they get variety. For organs they get beef liver, chicken liver, beef kidneys, and sweetbreads.The only supplement I add is some fish oil for omega 3.I do make a veggie mix, but I feed very, very little of it (it comes to less than 1% of their intake - just a tablespoon every few days). I follow more of a prey model style diet these days.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

See? This is why I am asking questions and worrying about doing it right. What I found said to feed 2-4% of their body weight, so I was going with 3%. 3% of 60 lbs (my smallest dog) is 1.8 lbs. 

Thanks for the info on the enhanced meat. I may have to stay away from Food Lion and stick with a local butcher shop and Harris Teeter.

The Honest Kitchen Preference is $52 for 7 lbs which makes 28 lbs. I would guess that would last me a while (if I don't decide to do the fresh veggie/fruit route).


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

2% is probably pretty close for most goldens. My middle girl (who does agility and field, etc.) typically gets less than that.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Okay, that's good to know. Now if I can find my meat sources for the prices that missmarstar posted, then I think there is a very good chance I can start feeding raw.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Okay, another question. When you say 1.5 lbs of meat, is that the weight including the bones? Like chicken wings or thighs have bones, so when you say you feed 1.5 lbs a day, is that including bones?


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

fostermom said:


> Okay, another question. When you say 1.5 lbs of meat, is that the weight including the bones? Like chicken wings or thighs have bones, so when you say you feed 1.5 lbs a day, is that including bones?


Yep, that's the total weight for meat, bones, anything they eat.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

If you decide to do raw you also need to think about what type of diet you want to feed. Prey model is strictly meat, bones, and organs. 80 percent meat, 10 percent bones, 5 percent liver, and 5 percent other organ is the formula most people use for prey model. The barf style diet consists of other things such as veggies, fruit, and yogurt. I started off with a barf diet and am currently somewhere in between the two, but leaning much closer to a prey model diet. I find it to be much easier and my dogs are actually doing better on it.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

To find great meat prices, check with a butcher or meat locker type place rather than a grocery store and ask if they sell bulk cases. If you google "BARF diet your city" or "raw meat diet your city" you may find some sort of online group or something dedicated to raw feeding that may be able to point you in the direction of the cheapest place to buy meat. That's how I found the place by me!


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

fostermom said:


> See? This is why I am asking questions and worrying about doing it right. What I found said to feed 2-4% of their body weight, so I was going with 3%. 3% of 60 lbs (my smallest dog) is 1.8 lbs.
> 
> Thanks for the info on the enhanced meat. I may have to stay away from Food Lion and stick with a local butcher shop and Harris Teeter.
> 
> The Honest Kitchen Preference is $52 for 7 lbs which makes 28 lbs. I would guess that would last me a while (if I don't decide to do the fresh veggie/fruit route).


I think it's the same thing as if you were feeding a kibble. The bag says one amount but reality is going to depend a lot on the individual dogs. Any formula is only going to be a starting point - I don't think I'd start with 4lbs of meat for any dog (unless you've got a Leonberger dressed up in a golden suit). See what works. If they start to lose weight then add, if they start to gain then subtract, if they maintain -GREAT! 

I feed different amounts almost every meal for my guys - I'm very careful about their weights - up and down. Teller is intact and can go from being a normal weight to looking emaciated in a day or too - I do keep him at "agility weight" but he can drop weight so easily. Murph isn't at agility weight anymore as he's mostly retired, but he can gain quickly. So I check them every single day and I evaluate how much they've done that day: exercise, training, trialing, treats and then what they're likely to be doing. For instance today is our late night - The boys have a big meal in the morning and at night they get a taste of something - in this case they each had a hard boiled egg because they're going to train and run this afternoon and I don't want them to work and run with food in their belly - my rule is 2 hours after any kind of meal. 

Erica


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Again, all wonderful suggestions and advice! I am going to start looking around (and will google groups in my area), I think I will probably start with BARF and then maybe move to prey model once I become a pro. But first I will try to stock up before switching them. I have a chest style freezer in my utility room so I can buy in bulk and separate into bags before freezing.

If you think of anything else that you think I might need to know, please do let me know!


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## zephyr (Sep 29, 2009)

This thread is awesome!  Oscar loooooves his raw food... and I love how happy he is, and his gorgeous coat & teeth. The only thing I don't like is when he dances over to you after his meal and wants to give you "raw kisses"... blegh! LOL!

We are in an apartment and have no chest freezer (... wistful sigh...), so we feed the bulk pre-made raw food with veggies mixed in. We buy it in the 5 lb frozen chunks, so we thaw a new one every few days, since right now he is eating 1-1.5 pounds a day (still a growing puppy, though, I really expect to be cutting that down). We've actually been decreasing the amount of food as he gets bigger and he really does have less of an appetite. We do give raw beef bones w/ meat every week as well.

Oh, I have another feeding raw question... where do you guys feed your dogs? Oscar gets the raw mix in his food bowl, but the RMBs he gets in his crate... it's just kind of a pain to clean it up afterwards, but not THAT much work. How do you clean up afterwards?

Also, how do you clean your DOG? LOL! Oscar ends up with meat smeared all over his face & paws from holding the bone down and gnawing. I usually rinse his face & paws off with the shower head, but that is a tad inconvenient. I've also considered just feeding him IN the shower... hehe 

But thanks for all the great suggestions about meat purchases... when we get a house or rent one, I hope a chest freezer is one of our first purchases!


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

That was another question I had, too. Where do you feed your dogs? Right now mine eat in the "dining room" which is actually a carpeted room that we have converted to a "dog room" with couch and chair designated for the dogs. Will I need to start feeding them in the kitchen?


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

I taught my dogs to eat on a mat (it has a water-proof backing). That way they can eat anywhere as long as I have some sort of mat (or even a towel) for them to eat on. I don't get excited about cleaning them after eating. They don't seem to get that dirty to me, but then again, I live on a acreage and they "help" me butcher chickens, ducks, turkeys, deer, etc., so I know what they look like when they are *really* dirty!


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Dillon likes eating in the backyard in the grass so that's what he does most every day unless it's raining or something.

Sam eats in the kitchen on a large plastic cutting board, or a towel if I'm lazy and the cutting boards haven't been washed, or I even have a couple shower curtains that I'll lay down on the floor. Just kinda depends what's clean LOL

Neither dog gets messy while they eat, they don't even use their paws to hold the food. Their faces don't get messy either.. they're both pretty clean eaters! They kind of just stand there and munch on the meat until they break off a smaller piece to chew on. Sometimes if its a big piece, they'll lay down to eat it, but even then they don't use their paws.


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

Cody isn't messy when he eats so he usualy eats in the kitchen. If he is getting something messy he always is fed outside. My DH wants him to eat all his meals out there but I don't think it is necessary at this point.


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## bwoz (Jul 12, 2007)

Great thread, I'm learning so much. I think I make it too hard, because it's really just like feeding yourself right? You get everything you need from the food you eat. Right now we're feeding a cooked whole food which is awesome, but would love to throw in raw here and there too. My biggest concern is the where to feed also. With kids in the house, the bacteria issue scares me.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

bwoz said:


> Great thread, I'm learning so much. I think I make it too hard, because it's really just like feeding yourself right? You get everything you need from the food you eat. Right now we're feeding a cooked whole food which is awesome, but would love to throw in raw here and there too. My biggest concern is the where to feed also. With kids in the house, the bacteria issue scares me.


You cook/prepare raw meat for the rest of your family, right? Just keep the dog in his kennel or a confined space while eating, then clean up the area just like you do after preparing your own meats. If you are worried about bacteria on the dog, I'd wager that he has as much or more bacteria on him and in his mouth just from being a dog (eating poo, licking his bum, digging/playing in the dirt, etc., etc.)! But if you are worried, you can always do a quick mouth/paw cleaning after a meal.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Reading this thread inspired me to get some frozen raw chicken necks and bison bones from the petstore last night. They were cheaper than the dried ones I usually get and Ranger went CRAZY for the bison bone! He's excited for the regular marrow bones I give him but this was a whole new level of excitement. He went to town on it for about two hours before I took it away and put it back in the freezer (was that the right thing to do?). Then he stared at the freezer for the next 30 min before giving up and going to bed. 

Is there anything wrong with the occasional raw item replacing a meal? I can't make the leap to fully feeding raw due to lack of space/freezer, but I'd like to gradually get into it. Last night I gave Ranger half his usual amount of kibble and then gave him the bison bone for supper. Is that okay?


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## zephyr (Sep 29, 2009)

Ranger said:


> Reading this thread inspired me to get some frozen raw chicken necks and bison bones from the petstore last night. They were cheaper than the dried ones I usually get and Ranger went CRAZY for the bison bone! He's excited for the regular marrow bones I give him but this was a whole new level of excitement. He went to town on it for about two hours before I took it away and put it back in the freezer (was that the right thing to do?). Then he stared at the freezer for the next 30 min before giving up and going to bed.
> 
> Is there anything wrong with the occasional raw item replacing a meal? I can't make the leap to fully feeding raw due to lack of space/freezer, but I'd like to gradually get into it. Last night I gave Ranger half his usual amount of kibble and then gave him the bison bone for supper. Is that okay?


Sounds like he had a lot of fun  I haven't ever saved the bones after one session, because Oscar usually totally tears them up... but I'd personally just put it in the fridge if there was some left until the next day, and then throw it out. I know some people do re-freeze them... but like you I don't have a lot of space 

Personally I would not feed kibble and raw in the same meal (or near each other) because of the difference in digestion times... kibble takes a lot longer to digest, and you don't want the raw food to be slowed down too much in the digestion because of the bacteria and such (at least that's my understanding of it????)

Here's one site I read over a lot before starting out on raw food:
http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm

There's a lot of advice on that site about how to set up a meal plan for your dog(s). (However remember that that particular author recommends a diet that is (1) grain free, (2) minimal extra supplements, and (3) with lots of veggies.) There are pros & cons to all sides of the debate around those different points... personally, I do feed (some) veggies, don't feed much grain (if any, only in treats/snacks), and we give glucosamine/chondroitin, fish oil, and kelp for supplements. But you have to come to a decision based on what you are comfortable with -- and what your dog does well on


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Ranger said:


> Reading this thread inspired me to get some frozen raw chicken necks and bison bones from the petstore last night. They were cheaper than the dried ones I usually get and Ranger went CRAZY for the bison bone! He's excited for the regular marrow bones I give him but this was a whole new level of excitement. He went to town on it for about two hours before I took it away and put it back in the freezer (was that the right thing to do?). Then he stared at the freezer for the next 30 min before giving up and going to bed.
> 
> Is there anything wrong with the occasional raw item replacing a meal? I can't make the leap to fully feeding raw due to lack of space/freezer, but I'd like to gradually get into it. Last night I gave Ranger half his usual amount of kibble and then gave him the bison bone for supper. Is that okay?



Sounds like he loved it!  I re-freeze bones and stuff too if my dogs don't devour them right away. If the bones you are feeding are quite meaty, I would definitely cut back a bit on the kibble for the day. If they are just recreational bones (like marrow bones) where he's gnawing on the bone but not really eating any, then I don't see a reason to cut back on food.

In general I would try to avoid feeding kibble and any raw meat in the same meal for the reason the poster above stated. Most people who do a 50/50 raw/kibble diet will feed one meal only kibble, and one meal only raw.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Ah ok, I'll keep kibble and bones seperate from now on. It was more of recreational bone, than meaty one and he was chewing on it for about two hours, then a half hour break before he got his kibble last night. I won't feed kibble tonight and I'll give him a chicken neck - that should be meaty enough to count as supper right? Ranger can stand to lose a pound or two, so I'm not too concerned about him not getting enough calories. 

This raw stuff is fun...I wish I had a deep freeze! Ranger's getting fish oil supplements a day and since I'm not cutting out all his kibble, I think he should be getting enough nutrients from that. So from now on, one meal is just kibble and one meal is just raw, like chicken neck or bone, and I should be good, right?

Zephyr - Thanks for link!


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## zephyr (Sep 29, 2009)

Ranger said:


> Ah ok, I'll keep kibble and bones seperate from now on. It was more of recreational bone, than meaty one and he was chewing on it for about two hours, then a half hour break before he got his kibble last night. I won't feed kibble tonight and I'll give him a chicken neck - that should be meaty enough to count as supper right? Ranger can stand to lose a pound or two, so I'm not too concerned about him not getting enough calories.
> 
> This raw stuff is fun...I wish I had a deep freeze! Ranger's getting fish oil supplements a day and since I'm not cutting out all his kibble, I think he should be getting enough nutrients from that. So from now on, one meal is just kibble and one meal is just raw, like chicken neck or bone, and I should be good, right?
> 
> Zephyr - Thanks for link!


No problem! Here is another similar one with some other thoughts on raw diets (this woman doesn't really do veggies at all, and only a few types of supplements... closer to a "prey model"): http://home.earthlink.net/~pawsreflect/nutrition.html
I think she makes some good points about _water_ quality (filtered) as well as meat quality... such as if you aren't feeding fresh (not frozen), organic meat (I am not doing organic, although someday I'd love to -- it's far too expensive, for us as well as Oscar), then maybe you should consider digestive enzymes and other supplements to make sure they are getting enough nutrients out of the food... Oscar doesn't get any digestive enzymes or probiotics, but I'm planning to add some to his diet in the near future. (I also just bought a water filter pitcher which I use for the dog's water as well as ours... I've never really had a problem drinking tap water, but the filter pitcher is a pretty convenient way to remember to keep cold fresh water in the fridge as well as feel better about the water we are drinking.)

I'm not an expert by any means, but I think one meat meal and one kibble meal should be okay without supplements... however if you are seeing any digestive issues though, maybe consider adding a probiotic or enzyme supplement?
I would just be sure to vary the types of meaty bones you are giving him. I estimate Oscar gets chicken/turkey for about 3.5-4 out of 5 meals and then a beef meal (organ and regular meat w/ less bone) for the other 1-1.5 meals (with veggies/fruit mixed in). For meaty bones he gets those same animals... he also gets fish and pork sometimes.

I have read there is some danger in feeding the same thing over and over again for developing allergies to that food...?? But I don't really entirely understand that issue yet (though it scares me a bit!)

The kibble is definitely more convenient for one of the daily meals (like in the morning), but you could also think about maybe doing a pre-made raw or a dehydrated meal instead, if you ever want to get off kibble entirely. My future goal is to switch Oscar to only one meal a day on the premade stuff and then the other meal be meaty bones.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Ranger's getting probiotics/digestive enzymes with his kibble since he tends to get pretty gassy without them so I'll just keep adding them to his kibble in the morning just to make sure he's getting nutrients.

Is there a reason you feed more chicken/turkey than beef? I just realized reading your post that I might have an "in" with an organic Charolais meat farm and could maybe get some meat from them which would hopefully be cheaper than the petstore/grocery store. What cuts of meat would I ask for coming from a cow? I'm assuming I'd get the appropriate-for-dog cuts, I just don't know what that'd be!

Thanks again!


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Ranger said:


> Is there a reason you feed more chicken/turkey than beef?



I can answer that the reason is probably cost. Beef is usually about double the cost of turkey and closer to 3x the cost of chicken for me.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

Well, I bought some frozen chicken necks today and tossed one to Ranger for his supper. I was expecting to have to sear it or something...nope. He took it in his mouth with his wide-eyed, "I can't believe she gave this to me - what a prize!" look then happily ran off and started chewing it outside. Wagged his tail the whole time except when he thought my mom and I got too close, at which point he gave us very suspicious looks but kept chewing. Took him about 20 min to get through the whole chicken neck and then he spent another 10 min sniffing around where he had eaten it in case any pieces had escaped from his jaws. 

It's been almost 5 hours and he seems normal. He seemed a little flustered after he was done eating and came back inside, a little restless almost, but spent the rest of the evening his usual lazy self. Overall, I'm going to say his first raw meal was a success (knock on wood so he doesn't puke/get the runs at three in the morning on my parents new carpet)!


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## bwoz (Jul 12, 2007)

I love that happy trot they do! Sounds like Ranger had a great supper.


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

Ranger said:


> Well, I bought some frozen chicken necks today and tossed one to Ranger for his supper. I was expecting to have to sear it or something...nope. He took it in his mouth with his wide-eyed, "I can't believe she gave this to me - what a prize!" look then happily ran off and started chewing it outside. Wagged his tail the whole time except when he thought my mom and I got too close, at which point he gave us very suspicious looks but kept chewing. Took him about 20 min to get through the whole chicken neck and then he spent another 10 min sniffing around where he had eaten it in case any pieces had escaped from his jaws.
> 
> It's been almost 5 hours and he seems normal. He seemed a little flustered after he was done eating and came back inside, a little restless almost, but spent the rest of the evening his usual lazy self. Overall, I'm going to say his first raw meal was a success (knock on wood so he doesn't puke/get the runs at three in the morning on my parents new carpet)!


20 minutes to eat a chicken neck?
Cody must eat seriously fast.
He eats an entire thigh and leg within about 5 minutes. He would eat a neck in 2-3 bites.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

How big are chicken necks usually? This thing was almost the size of Ranger's head. It was also completely, rock-solid frozen since I was worried about him gulping it down and choking (or puking it up later on my parents brand new carpet)! Anybody else's dog raw with their tongues hanging out the side of their mouths? It was sooo funny! I'll have to post pics later.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Wow, that must have been some kind of chicken neck. I think my dogs could eat an entire chicken in less time than that!

I'm currently going through the veggies/no veggies debate myself. I think my compromise is a very very small amount of veggies....totaling less than 1% of their total diet per month. To me this seems most like what they would be eating in the wild.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Loisiana said:


> Wow, that must have been some kind of chicken neck. I think my dogs could eat an entire chicken in less time than that!



LOL mine too!! They would swallow chicken necks whole! I buy them turkey necks all the time and those are a perfect size for them.. the ones I get are normally about 2 lbs each.. they're nice and big!


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

Loisiana said:


> Wow, that must have been some kind of chicken neck. I think my dogs could eat an entire chicken in less time than that!
> 
> I'm currently going through the veggies/no veggies debate myself. I think my compromise is a very very small amount of veggies....totaling less than 1% of their total diet per month. To me this seems most like what they would be eating in the wild.


I decided to give him fruits and veggies. I went through a period where I just gave him meat and his stools seemed to be very hard. So now I just buy a bunch of fruits/veggies and freeze them for a while. Then stick them all in the food processor and put that mush in ice cube trays for easy feeding and defrosting. He gets about 4 cubes a day. The veggies help to add water to their diet as well. It was amazing at how his water intake went down so drasticaly when I switched him to raw.


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## bwoz (Jul 12, 2007)

MyCodyBoy said:


> I decided to give him fruits and veggies. I went through a period where I just gave him meat and his stools seemed to be very hard. So now I just buy a bunch of fruits/veggies and freeze them for a while. *Then stick them all in the food processor and put that mush in ice cube trays for easy feeding and defrosting.* He gets about 4 cubes a day. The veggies help to add water to their diet as well. It was amazing at how his water intake went down so drasticaly when I switched him to raw.


That's a great idea. Probably good in the summer too as an ice cube.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I used to do veggies in ice cube trays too. Now that I'm not feeding as much veggies I just put them in one pound containers and feed each dog a tablespoon or two every couple of days.


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## Wimbles (Mar 25, 2010)

Getting a pup soon hopefully and wanting to feed BARF. This thread has been helpful. Such a great source of information and experience.


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

I just stumbled across this thread and started doing a little googling to look into feeding Enzo raw. I think we're sticking with kibble for now until he's an adult, but I'm very interested in the idea of it when he gets older. When I was doing my searching, I came across a link that I thought others might find helpful. 

http://www.dogster.com/forums/Raw_Food_Diet/thread/491589

You can click on the link there that says ALL NEW!! Personal Raw Feeding Guide (Spreadsheet) and enter your dog's weight there. It tells you how much of everything they need to eat.


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## America (May 6, 2010)

Glad to hear it! I feed raw to Tex and he is doing wonderfully on it. Well, I've only had him for the second day today, but he seems to really like it. No vomiting, no diarrhea, etc. He had cow tongue yesterday and beef kidney today. I'd never feed him kibble. I feel that if you love your dog, you will do what is best for them, and that means raw food!


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