# How much do you groom for show?



## golden_eclipse

Over spring break I went to a handling seminar, and also watched a bunch of youtube videos called "Grooming the golden retriever-the winning way". Now the impression I got from showing my golden boy in Canada was that I go much lighter on the grooming than others. This was reaffirmed from my spring break of education. I'm a little taken back by all the stripping and clipping some do. 

Here is what I do, and just wonder how it compares to others:
Bathe and dry. 

I trim the paws a minimal amount, not with clippers but with straight and thinning shears. 

I trim the ears, clean up all the fuzzies, and the inside of the ears. 

Then I trim the tail a bit, so it falls at the top of the hocks. I also trim the tips of the feathers off the tail, so it looks fuller.
I don't use any product in the fur.


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## cofam

I'm curious to see what other's do. We don't have a show dog or even a field trials dog (although she does go out hunting, just as a companion). We use bathe and brush, clean up around hygiene areas, brush teeth, clean ears, clip nails.


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## sterregold

kdowningxc said:


> Over spring break I went to a handling seminar, and also watched a bunch of youtube videos called "Grooming the golden retriever-the winning way". Now the impression I got from showing my golden boy in Canada was that I go much lighter on the grooming than others. This was reaffirmed from my spring break of education. I'm a little taken back by all the stripping and clipping some do.
> 
> Here is what I do, and just wonder how it compares to others:
> Bathe and dry.
> 
> I trim the paws a minimal amount, not with clippers but with straight and thinning shears.
> 
> I trim the ears, clean up all the fuzzies, and the inside of the ears.
> 
> Then I trim the tail a bit, so it falls at the top of the hocks. I also trim the tips of the feathers off the tail, so it looks fuller.
> I don't use any product in the fur.


I trim feet using straight shears a la Erik Strickland, tidy hocks if needed, trim ear fuzzies using thinning shears, trim tail to proprotional length correct for the dog, and will take excess hair off the neck using a Coat King if the dog has such a thick ruff it is making the dog look stuffy necked. I leave whiskers on. I also use a lycra drying coat on my one really wavy coated boy. But I do not wet down and fluff dry at the show, or put mousse or chalk in, or do excessive stripping around the body--just try to enhance the dogs strengths, and typify the working dog described in the standard. I don't go for the fluffing and puffing, because it is not functionally correct!


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## Ljilly28

Lol, I think this depends on how many strengths/faults the dog has, and what part of the country the show is in and what the judge likes. I will say that with extensive and complicated grooming/stripping by an amazing professional handler, my dog is in a different class than when I trim him myself. He has several shining strengths and a few glaring weaknesses that are very influencible by grooming. Another dog of mine is a very honest dog with very, very few faults, so he can blow dry, trim feet and look the picture. My puppy girl does not really need anything except to be clean and neatly trimmed. There is definitely craft and strategy the pros and experienced owner/handlers use with the tricks of a lifetime on their side, Unless you are showing a very correct, very typical dog with a ton of breed type and very few faults, the grooming is part of the game.


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## hvgoldens4

Unfortunately, there is a good bit of grooming that needs to be done on a golden to get them ready for the show ring. I trim feet, ears, tail, hocks. I then do strip the dogs out when I need to. Their "mane" is not always attractive and can really hide a good front and all the hair on their neck can make dog who actually has a good length of neck, look like they have none!!

Goldens are a very competitive breed and you need to accentuate your dogs strengths. You have 2 minutes to get the judge to focus on your dog above all the others that are in the ring. Yes, there are also a lot of other tricks that can be done to hide flaws. However, the judge can still "feel" these things when they go over the dog so it is just a visual that you are creating.


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## GoldenSail

sterregold said:


> But I do not wet down and fluff dry at the show, or put mousse or chalk in, or do excessive stripping around the body--just try to enhance the dogs strengths, and typify the working dog described in the standard. I don't go for the fluffing and puffing, because it is not functionally correct!


LOL reminded me of when I showed my girl and I was taught to wet her down and blow her dry (back) before the show. I was told from the get go from golden people that while this wasn't 'correct' everyone did it to win and it made them look 'cute.'

Definitely jealous of my friend with flatties who can amateur groom her dogs, not wet them down the day of the show, and just show up as an owner handler and WIN. But, it's easier when you don't have such a competitive breed. I understand why its done....to help sort through those large and competitive classes.

I never did a ton of grooming and I always did it myself or with help from friends. I did feet, tail, and ears. I did trim whiskers because it was what everyone did...although I did admire running into people who did not (at the same time I don't mind that people do...just hate the idea of everyone does it so you should too to win).


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## golden_eclipse

I think if you really have a superior dog, you don't have to stuff like wetting down and drying the day of. But in the US, there really isn't such a superior dog (maybe very very rarely) every dog is so competitive that you have to keep yourself in the game somehow. 
In Canada, my experience was different, although I competed against some pros, there were mostly owner handlers. I felt like there was a bit more "honesty" for lack of a better word, in the fact that there was less being put into the dogs in terms of grooming or presentation, and thus you were left with more of the dog, itself, with the good and bad.

I don't trim whiskers, only because I have somewhat of an anti-conformist attitude (being 21 years old and all), although if it starts costing me wins (which means money) I might have too, I am a poor college student after all.


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## Pointgold

GoldenSail said:


> LOL reminded me of when I showed my girl and I was taught to wet her down and blow her dry (back) before the show. I was told from the get go from golden people that while this wasn't 'correct' everyone did it to win and it made them look 'cute.'
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly cannot imagine anyone saying that it makes them "cute".
> If done correctly, then it is not "incorrect". Wetting them down and blowing them out is done to lay down a topline, or flipped hair around the flanks, elbows, and neck. It is also done to make sure the dog is again clean (think "revitalizing the bath"). What IS incorrect is blowing the coat open so it sticks up like dandelion fluff. Trimming is done judiciously to clean up and accentuate the best parts of your dog, and yes, to "minimize faults", but trust me, no judge putting hands on a dog is fooled by any of it. Good grooming does not make a Golden look like a Setter or a spaniel, and in fact, when done really well, doesn't look "artificial" at all.


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## golden_eclipse

Pointgold said:


> GoldenSail said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL reminded me of when I showed my girl and I was taught to wet her down and blow her dry (back) before the show. I was told from the get go from golden people that while this wasn't 'correct' everyone did it to win and it made them look 'cute.'
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly cannot imagine anyone saying that it makes them "cute".
> If done correctly, then it is not "incorrect". Wetting them down and blowing them out is done to lay down a topline, or flipped hair around the flanks, elbows, and neck. It is also done to make sure the dog is again clean (think "revitalizing the bath"). What IS incorrect is blowing the coat open so it sticks up like dandelion fluff. Trimming is done judiciously to clean up and accentuate the best parts of your dog, and yes, to "minimize faults", but trust me, no judge putting hands on a dog is fooled by any of it. Good grooming does not make a Golden look like a Setter or a spaniel, and in fact, when done really well, doesn't look "artificial" at all.
> 
> 
> 
> So if a judge isn't fooled, why do it?
Click to expand...


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## Pointgold

kdowningxc said:


> Pointgold said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if a judge isn't fooled, why do it?
> 
> 
> 
> Pride, and respect. I don't want to take an ungroomed dog into a show ring. Nor do I want to take an _overgroomed _dog into a show ring. Also the reason that I want to dress nicely when I show.
> 
> And I will expand/qualify my statement - a judge isn't fooled by the attempts by overgrooming to HIDE anything, or to put something there that isn't.
> .
Click to expand...


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## GoldenSail

All I said was that in my limited experience I was taught to blow dry the coat backward until almost dry and that this was incorrect because of the open coat but a lot of people did it because they felt it made the dog look better-particularly more substantial in addition to helping tame the coat. In my own dog if her coat is blown backward it does stick out more making her appear to be a more substantial dog--this is only temporary though and will eventually lay more naturally within few hours. FWIW its interesting to note that with her after swimming in the river as she runs around outside her coat fluffs out naturally until she is completely dry at which point it starts to lay naturally again. I don't know how widespread this is, but people do do it and I was taught this as a beginner. Also straight up told in the same breath that it wasn't correct. Just my experience.

I never made any comment as far as the extent of the trimming etc. Frankly the only thing that bothers me is the notion that if you are not an expert groomer that it will affect your chances of winning....yet in the same breath people will tell you the judge is not fooled. No doubt professionals are more skilled at grooming, and I understand why people go this route...I just wish there wasn't this perception.


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## golden_eclipse

Pointgold said:


> kdowningxc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pride, and respect. I don't want to take an ungroomed dog into a show ring. Nor do I want to take an _overgroomed _dog into a show ring. Also the reason that I want to dress nicely when I show.
> 
> And I will expand/qualify my statement - a judge isn't fooled by the attempts by overgrooming to HIDE anything, or to put something there that isn't.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly understand that. I guess there is ambiguity or a discontinuity among golden people about what being "over groomed" means. I also think our definition of what is simply grooming for show, has changed over time. At least looking at how goldens were presented in the 50's or 60's, its quite a drastic change. Again I'm not saying we should all stop grooming our dogs for show, that is half the fun. But I do hope in the process of showing my dog, that I keep in the spirit of the golden retriever, and not loose sight of "primarily a hunting dog", even if that means not winning as often as I could.
Click to expand...


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## Ryley's Dad

We do our big grooming the day before the show.. ie bath, blow dry, combing, major trimming (feet, tail, head, some thinning where needed) and then each day of the show we just do a little tidying up... no bathing though... just a little fine mist spray and then blow dry the damp areas to flatten out mussed up fur from the night before, also a little bit of minor triming with the scissors... and also combing and brushing of course.

My dog has got a lot of hair but fortunately it lies pretty straight so really we don't have to do a lot of straightening. Also because he has such a heavy coat, if we bathed him before the show we would have to spend at least 2 hours just drying him with the pet dryer (We have the 4hp Metro Commander)

Here's a couple of pics showing what he looks like a week after his last show.. he wasn't bathed before the pic was taken... just combed and brushed... I think we are pretty fortunate in that our dog is pretty easy to get ready for a show.


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## Aislinn

I don't know about in Golden's, but with Paps trimming whiskers is usually done to make the muzzle appear smaller. If the muzzle is a bit narrow, leaving them on will give the impression of a wider muzzle.

Ryley's Dad, your boy is gorgeous!


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## lgnutah

Can some of you post before and after grooming photos so we can see what changes occurred? Thanks


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## whiskey creek goldens

It really depends on the dog/bitch My girl Mia takes very little grooming. A little trim on toes, ears, tail and whiskers. A fluff and puff and she is good to go. 

My Boy Toga on the other hand takes about a week to groom. First we have to condition the heck out of his coat so it is weighted down and the curl comes out. Then strip his neck (otherwise it curls up over his top skull) trim toes, (which takes three of the 7 days cus he wont stand still) Ears, whiskers, fluff and puff takes three days to get the curl out. Then last but not least Glue it in place lol just kidding about the glue. We do however hope there is no rain or all is lost lol He dose look great when we are done.


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## K9-Design

I think as far as trimming here are the areas I look at and evaluate if the dog needs attention here (FYI bathing and drying correctly are a given)

Face/eyes/lips/whiskers
Ears
Neck under ears
Shoulders
Withers
Throat
chest
elbows
fringe on back of front legs
pasterns
carpals
feet
belly hair
topline/rump
base of tail
tip & bottom of tail
vent area and weiner for boys 
butt
flank
stifle
pants
rear hocks

My co-owned dog Blade, now he was a beautiful creature and I had very little to worry about as far as "hiding" faults. He had really lovely natural structure and movement. He also had a lot of wavy, silky hair that liked to do what it pleased and it GREW LIKE A WEED. Every week I could trim off an inch of coat and probably more. 
He required a lot of careful stripping, trimming and drying to get prepared for the ring. He also looked the best fully bathed and blown out, full groom the day of the show. But when I spent all that time, the difference was noticeable and he was quite exquisite to present. 

Slater on the other hand, well of course I do feet, ears and tail, and a little bit neatening up elbows and fringes on the back of his legs, but seriously, that dog has a short, dense, and perfectly straight coat. There is NO wave, lumps, bumps, cowlicks, etc. It is thick and naturally lays perfect. Prepping him at the show takes approximately 15 minutes and involves spraying him with water, blowing it out with the dryer, and maybe a little stickum on his paws and legs, and that's it. I couldn't groom him more or cut off more if I wanted to. And while I think Fisher and Slater have different coat types, Fisher was much the same, in that, I could spend an hour grooming him or 5 minutes, and he pretty much looked the same. Straight coat, not a ton of it, not much to do with it.


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## sterregold

Butch--curly dude before (but recently trimmed as he was in a show last weekend--if he had been swimming the hair would be wilder) and after fully groomed


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## sterregold

Winter--really hair ungroomed dude, and then what he looks like done up.


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## Sally's Mom

Shelly, What a difference. Is that all accomplished with a dryer, or do use towels or a drying coat? And how long does it take?


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## golden_eclipse

This is sammy. Sammy also has a very straight dense coat. I don't think there is much you could strip from him. What you see is what you get. I feel for those wavy coats, those look like quite a bit of work, to straighten out and get ready.


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## sterregold

Sally's Mom said:


> Shelly, What a difference. Is that all accomplished with a dryer, or do use towels or a drying coat? And how long does it take?


A slightly different process for each boy. For Butch, on the bath day he gets bathed with Isle of Dogs Evening Primrose and then conditioned with their Heavy Management. I force dry and when he is touch dry, about an hour, I put him in a lycra drying coat (I make one to fit the dog--other people I know with wavy English dogs use lamb tubes) that has a neck tube that covers his ears. I trim his feet, which is about another half hour, and then he sleeps in the drying coat overnight. It really sets the coat, and unless he gets wet it will stay nice and smooth for several days. Ears get trimmed and neck gets thinned with the Coat King the next day before the show.

For Winter, he gets bathed in the Evening Primrose as well, but does not need the conditioner, and then I dry him with the force dryer--it takes about 1.5 hours for him. I pin him into a microfiber towel to help set his backline and draw out any remaining mosture, while I trim his feet and ears, and take out a bit of mane under his chin if needed, which takes about 45 minutes to an hour. If the towel feels damp after this I will swap it out for another and leave it on until bed.


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## Loisiana

Ryley's Dad, I love the color of your dog. Not too light, not too dark, a nice rich gold.


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## Bstod16

Beautiful!


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## vleffingwell

I just started showing again after 20 years and what a difference. Wash and go is not going to get you a place in the winners circle. The judge will put hands on your dog just once and the rest of the time in the ring they will just look at your dog - that is why it is so important to groom to win.


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## golden_eclipse

vleffingwell said:


> I just started showing again after 20 years and what a difference. Wash and go is not going to get you a place in the winners circle. The judge will put hands on your dog just once and the rest of the time in the ring they will just look at your dog - that is why it is so important to groom to win.



Its too bad, in the AKC, I see far too many "fake" back lines, created by combing the fur back to hide dips or rises and the fluffing and puffing and blowing open...Oh well, I think the GRCA is working hard to educate judges about the golden retriever and how the coat should be correct and not sculpted. Hopefully the trend of dripping in coat and groomed to the max will wane with time.


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## MaddieMagoo

kdowningxc said:


> Its too bad, in the AKC, I see far too many "fake" back lines, created by combing the fur back to hide dips or rises and the fluffing and puffing and blowing open...Oh well, I think the GRCA is working hard to educate judges about the golden retriever and how the coat should be correct and not sculpted. Hopefully the trend of dripping in coat and groomed to the max will wane with time.


I honestly couldn't agree more with you on this one.  Yes, a dog is hard to finish, but we need to keep in mind that hiding faults won't always get you far in the long run. We need to show breeding stock that is true to the breed...and not sculpting them like a Poodle. They are hunting dogs, not divas.


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## Ljilly28

One thing that bugs me is when my dog has truly beautiful pigment, but the dog with the pink nose looks just as good bc the handler painted it up.


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## HiTideGoldens

lol....I hear ya. Some handlers don't paint noses. The handler that finished Jack thinks painting noses is "disgusting." Although some I've seen do it out in the open in grooming areas...ick.


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