# Golden Retriever Breeder in Northern Virginia



## NuttinButGoldens

First, not wanting to break any rules, are we allowed to use actual breeder names here?

Ok, that out of the way...

I'm looking for a quality breeder in the Northern Virginia/DC/MD area. The closer to Northern Virginia the better.

While I could stand to wait a little bit longer after the loss of my beloved Comet last week, I need to think of Dakota too and he is fairly upset about this. So is Ronin, the cat. They were truly best buddies...

So, the search begins 

There are breeder directories, of course, but I was hoping someone may have first-hand experience with a breeder(s) in my area.

Of course I will accept nothing short of full and proper hip, heart and eye clearances for the parents.

Here's a question. Consider the certs being equal, is there really any difference between a breeder that raises their Goldens in a Ranch/Kennel facility vs one that breeds/raises them in a home type setting?

I found one place in MD not far from me. Here is their description:

Hello, 

_We are XXXXXXXXX's Goldens and very pleased and proud to introduce you to our family of Golden Retreivers. We have been breeding for about 12 years and we are very proud of our line. Our dogs are healthy, sound and have "golden" temperments. They are very affectionate and have a hard time "holding their Licker's" *We have hip, heart and eye clearance certificates from ORTHOPEDIC fOUNDATION FOR ANIMALS for all of our breeding stock. *All of our pups are raised lovingly in our home untill they are 9 weeks old. We have 5 grandchildren who interact with the puppies from the time they are about 3 weeks old. All pups have their 1st shots and are wormed at 3,6 & 9 weeks. We begin crate training early and start with some basic obedience at 6 weeks. Our pups go home with a health certificate from Fairland Animal Hospital in Silver Spring where they are evaluated at 3, 6 and 9 weeks of age. A completed application and puppy questionnaire along with a deposit will reserve a puppy for you. If you have any questions or would like to visit us please give us a call. _

I looked the site up on Google and it appears to be more of a home-based setting than a large kennel/ranch type setting.

I actually appreciate the socialization that is described here.

Given 5 grandchildren are listed, I would have to assume the breeders are probably a bit older, which to me could mean they do it because they love it.

What do you folks think?

-Larry


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## Tahnee GR

They have left out one clearance-elbows. Just because they have grandchildren, does not mean they are not pin money breeders  As long as they do all clearances, properly socialize their puppies, and have goals for their breedings, being a pin money breeder is not necessarily a negative.

Is there a history of clearances behind their dogs? One generation is not enough.

You can double check clearances on www.offa.org .


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## Tahnee GR

Oh, and yes it is okay to post kennel names here


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## Pointgold

I encourage you to read this:

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=32279


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## NuttinButGoldens

Ok, cool. I've bookmarked that for later tonight 

Now that I know breeder names are ok...

Comet was purchased from Gap View Ranch Golden Retrievers in Broadway, VA.

http://gapviewgoldenretrievers.homestead.com/

The gentleman that was the primary owner at the time had to turn it all over to his partner some time ago due to family illness I believe.

They are still in business obviously.

In 1996 Comet was $425. They currently charge $1200.

Comet was a wonderful dog that lived 12 years and wasn't sick a day in his life until the last week.

I have no reason not to buy from them again.

But, it's a LONG drive out there. They are just shy of being in the Shenandoah mountains 

I still plan on calling and talking to the owner.

One thing that bothers me is they don't really offer a health guarantee beyond your having the pup checked at your own vet. Is this typical these days?

-Larry


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## NuttinButGoldens

BTW... I referred someone to them about 6 months ago that had lost their Golden. My Vet called and asked for the info because Comet had been such a stout, healthy, charming dog. Because the ownership name had changed (see above), I called to make sure they were still in business, much as they were. We got to discussing Comet and he fondly remembered Comets parents right off the bat


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## Pointgold

I'm not impressed at all by their sales contract. Not much in the way of any hereditary problems are going to be found in the first three weeks that you have a puppy, and they require it's return if there is. Yet, they sell on a full registration and permit the random breeding of their dogs, without benefit of any protection if your dog has dysplasia (and they do not mention elbows, only hips) or any other hereditary disease.


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## NuttinButGoldens

That's the one thing that is bothering me...

I know at least one place in MD gives a two year guarantee against heredity defects.

-Larry



Pointgold said:


> I'm not impressed at all by their sales contract. Not much in the way of any hereditary problems are going to be found in the first three weeks that you have a puppy, and they require it's return if there is. Yet, they sell on a full registration and permit the random breeding of their dogs, without benefit of any protection if your dog has dysplasia (and they do not mention elbows, only hips) or any other hereditary disease.


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## NuttinButGoldens

This place looks quite interesting:

http://www.libertyrun.com/

Some excerpts:

*Your Liberty Run Golden Retriever Puppy is...*








covered by a full, one-year guarantee, in writing.







Permanently identified by a microchip.







not inbred or line-bred.







expertly socialized and ready to go home and bond with you.







started on house-breaking.







current on Parvo/Distemper immunizations & wormings.







encouraged to take advantage of a special offer. We will provide the full series of puppy boosters at no charge. However, it is your responsibility to visit Liberty Run to take advantage of this offer. (For proper immunization, puppies should have boosters every three weeks until they are four months of age.)
*With your Golden Retriever puppy, you also receive...*








copies of mom and dad's OFA, CERF, and SAS clearances.







a photo of mom and dad.







AKC (American Kennel Club) registration papers.







a four generation pedigree of your pure-bred golden retriever puppy.







a Health Certificate which shows dates of immunizations your puppy has received and dates of future boosters and wormings that are recommended.







feeding instructions.







a general care overview.







crate training instructions.
*It is our breeding objective to produce intelligent, calm, and healthy Golden Retrievers - ones that are easy for you to train, great to have as companions, and healthy. This is how the breed is supposed to be!* To accomplish this, we breed only healthy and obedient adult Golden Retrievers, like Vana above, who earn obedience titles, not beauty pageant or hunting titles. Moms and dads of our puppies have their OFA, CERF, and SAS titles, too. Original documents are here for you to view, and we provide copies of these certifications to you when you purchase a puppy from Liberty Run.

We at Liberty Run Goldens do not inbreed or line-breed our dogs. Those techniques may produce a pretty dog, but we feel they weaken dogs mentally. And we believe those breeding techniques have led to all the health problems associated with Goldens, today.


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## NuttinButGoldens

First, the elbow cert is tough to come by! I haven't found one yet.

How is this for a contract:

The Buyer(s) agree(s)
The full purchase price is $1,800.00 and the balance of $1,200.00 is due in full before the puppy is transferred to the Buyer. Crate and
shipping expenses (if applicable) are an additional $400.00 and are the responsibility of the Buyer to be paid in full prior to shipment.
This puppy is sold as a pet and companion animal with a Limited AKC Registration. An additional $500.00 is required for Full AKC
Registration.
Limited Registration means that the dog is registered, but no litters produced by the dog are eligible for registration. Dogs with
limited registration may not be entered in breed competition at Dog Shows, but may compete in all other AKC events. The litter
owner may later apply to change this designation and have the dog given full registration privileges, but a fee and special application
are required for this change.
That said dog will be given proper medical care including, but not limited to, vaccinations and annual boosters, regular deworming,
adequate and proper shade and housing in a fenced yard or kennel. That the Buyer will groom, train and care for this dog in a manner
consistent with high quality animal husbandry practices endorsed by the Breeder. All Veterinarian fees and expenses shall be the
responsibility of the Buyer. Under no circumstances shall Liberty Run Golden Retrievers be held responsible for any expenses for
any puppy not in the possession of Liberty Run Golden Retrievers.

For good consideration it is agreed between the parties, Seller and Buyer, that:
1. The seller agrees to sell and the buyer agrees to buy the Golden Retriever described at top of first page.
2. Seller warrants it has full legal title to the Golden Retriever dog and, by virtue of this sales agreement, ownership to the buyer under the following warranties and conditions.
A. The Golden Retriever Dog is purebred and capable of being registered with the American Kennel An AKC Dog Registration Application will be provided to the buyer. This contract shall be null buyer does not use the kennel name “Liberty Run” as a prefix or suffix when registering the dog B. The Golden Retriever Dog is guaranteed against a severe (crippling) grade of hip dysplasia, as solely by the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA), until the dog attains one year of age. be taken by a veterinarian qualified and knowledgeable in the proper technique of acquiring a suitable for OFA evaluation. Veterinary bills, x-ray costs, and all other expenses incurred to certification are the buyer’s responsibility. All x-rays must be made available to the seller upon receipt by the seller of the OFA certification, veterinary receipt indicating the date that the x-obtained, and the AKC ownership papers of the dog, the seller will replace the Golden Retriever another dog of equal or greater value, when available. This contract will become null and void Retriever Dog has been used for breeding prior to being x-rayed for OFA evaluation.
C. The Golden Retriever Dog is guaranteed against any congenital health related disease or defect attains one year of age. Should the dog develop a condition that dates from the prenatal or fetal will replace the dog with another of equal or greater value, when available, providing the following have been met. The buyer must provide the seller with written certification from two unaffiliated veterinarians stating the disease, and the buyer must return the dog and its AKC ownership papers All expenses incurred to obtain the written certifications are the buyer’s responsibility.
D. This contract will become null and void if the Golden Retriever Dog has been the victim of neglect, type of accident, or improper diet (overweight, underweight, lack of proper nutrition).
E. If the buyer has the puppy euthanized for any reason without the prior consent of the seller, this be null and void, and no replacement will be made.
F. In the event the buyer may no longer keep the dog, the buyer may return the dog to the seller.
G. That this dog will not be used for any purposes of research or vivisection and shall not be sold wholesale establishment, chain store, catalog sales house, pet store or puppy mill.
H. That this dog will never be surrendered to any humane society, animal rescue group or animal By having signed this agreement, both seller and buyer acknowledge that they have carefully read and understand the Sale of Golden Retriever. This contract constitutes the full and complete agreement between the buyer and seller.


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## Pointgold

NuttinButGoldens said:


> This place looks quite interesting:
> 
> http://www.libertyrun.com/
> 
> Some excerpts:
> 
> *Your Liberty Run Golden Retriever Puppy is...*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> covered by a full, one-year guarantee, in writing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Permanently identified by a microchip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not inbred or line-bred.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> expertly socialized and ready to go home and bond with you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> started on house-breaking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> current on Parvo/Distemper immunizations & wormings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> encouraged to take advantage of a special offer. We will provide the full series of puppy boosters at no charge. However, it is your responsibility to visit Liberty Run to take advantage of this offer. (For proper immunization, puppies should have boosters every three weeks until they are four months of age.)
> *With your Golden Retriever puppy, you also receive...*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> copies of mom and dad's OFA, CERF, and SAS clearances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a photo of mom and dad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AKC (American Kennel Club) registration papers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a four generation pedigree of your pure-bred golden retriever puppy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a Health Certificate which shows dates of immunizations your puppy has received and dates of future boosters and wormings that are recommended.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> feeding instructions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a general care overview.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> crate training instructions.
> *It is our breeding objective to produce intelligent, calm, and healthy Golden Retrievers - ones that are easy for you to train, great to have as companions, and healthy. This is how the breed is supposed to be!* To accomplish this, we breed only healthy and obedient adult Golden Retrievers, like Vana above, who earn obedience titles, not beauty pageant or hunting titles. Moms and dads of our puppies have their OFA, CERF, and SAS titles, too. Original documents are here for you to view, and we provide copies of these certifications to you when you purchase a puppy from Liberty Run.
> 
> We at Liberty Run Goldens do not inbreed or line-breed our dogs. Those techniques may produce a pretty dog, but we feel they weaken dogs mentally. And we believe those breeding techniques have led to all the health problems associated with Goldens, today.


 
Anything less that a two year warranty is worthless. OFA will not certify dogs until 24 months of age. 
While I think that obedience titles are important, to minimize the value of conformation and hunting titles is wrong - conformation titles are importan as a guage by which a breeder can determine how well the dogs that they are breeding conform to the standard, and as for hunting titles??? "The Golden Retriever is primarily a hunting dog." 

To blame linebreeding for "weakening dogs mentally" and as leading to "all the health problems associated with Goldens, today" is sheer ignorance. Careful linebreeding STRENGTHENS the genetic health of a bloodline, and I will say that there are more health problems with totally outcrossed dogs than with dogs linebred. 

I have concerns about them having dogs come back for innoculations. Puppies need to be seen by a veterinarian. If there were reactions to the vaccines given, that could be a big problem, and I wonder if Liberty Run would accept responsibility and pay for the ensuing vet care?

I also take exception to this statement, found on their site:

*"There's another benefit to a puppy that has been raised outdoors. Many who purchase puppies from us find this helps in house-breaking. How? Because our puppies never had the opportunity to make a "mistake" indoors. All they have ever known is to relieve themselves outside. As a result, most of our pups are house-broken in less than three days. "*

This is just simply not true.

This is also disturbing to me:
*"Most importantly, though, we do not permit our puppies to "bond" with us. That way, your puppy can bond with you."*

I have raised MANY litters, and I am with those puppies constantly from the second they are born. I've kept puppies until as late as 16 weeks before they go to their new homes, and they've been treated exactly as if I were going to keep them forever. They've had no problems bonding when they've gone to their new families. I'd like to know what this place does to prevent them from bonding with them - it would seem that the only way that would happen would be to ignore them, or not spend time with them, or hold, pet and train basic manners with them. Actually, just the little that I have read pretty much infuriates me.


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## Ljilly28

This thread is about Maryland breeders and tackles Liberty Run
http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=48505&highlight=breeder%2C+maryland


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## DelmarvaGold

Also, I know that the local golden club will not endorse Liberty Run. They consider them a commercial breeder.

Sue


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## Pointgold

Ljilly28 said:


> This thread is about Maryland breeders and tackles Liberty Run
> http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=48505&highlight=breeder,+maryland


 
Okay. Usually I base my feelings on a breeder based upon clearances, and adherence to Code of Ethics guidelines and conforming to the standard. With Liberty Run I couldn't even GET that far. I just scanned the above thread, and it validates my distaste even more.


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## Pointgold

A quick look in the OFA Database isn't pretty for Liberty Run, either. Hips only. None of the Cardiac or CERF or Thyroid clearances that they claim. They are not too careful about what they are breeding, as an example, Liberty Run's Harley Boy, who has hiops only and none of the other clearances claimed, IS an OFA Excellent. HOWEVER, he produced 8 puppies listed in the database, and of the 8, 4 are only Fair, 1 is Moderate, 1 is Mild unilateral, and 1 is Good. The good, Samson, is sire of their current litter, had a full brother hwo is uni, and 2 sisters who are Fair. Not a good hip record in a vertical pedigree. Yet, all of us doing careful linebreedings have caused all the health problems in Goldens today. :doh:

Okey dokey. Done venting. Whew.


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## kgiff

I'm sorry about Comet. 

Contact the PVGRC puppy referral: http://www.pvgrc.org/poop/poop.htm

Good luck in your search. It can take some time to find the right breeder and the right litter so be patient -- it'll be worth the wait.


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## Ljilly28

A breeder I looked at today had different reports for prelims/hips on the kennel's website than on k9data, and different titles for the same exact dogs(???). Jeez.


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## NuttinButGoldens

Holy Mackerel thanks folks! Whew! 

I can't believe how hard this is. There are so few breeders in the area I can find!

That's what makes this place so great. We can help keep each other out of trouble 

I wish someone could just say "this breeder is perfect - buy here" 

I'm a computer professional. You wanna mate a processor with a motherboard, I can guarantee the results 

Thanks again!


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## NuttinButGoldens

Ok, now we're getting somewhere 

DelMarva Goldens
Lycinan
Grinning Goldens

It looks like it's hard to go wrong with any of these.

Thank you SO much folks.


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## Ardeagold

> Anything less that a two year warranty is worthless.


Depends on what the warranty says. Some two year warranties are worthless.


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## Pointgold

Ardeagold said:


> Depends on what the warranty says. Some two year warranties are worthless.


Please - an example of a warranty for less than two years that you would find acceptable? And I agree that there are many two year warranties that are worthless.


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## Ljilly28

Lemon laws in some states supercede contracts, which is interesting.


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## buckeyegoldenmom

Also give the breeders like Delmarva a call. Even if she doesn't have puppies herself right now. She may be able to refer you to someone who does, and is also a reputable breeder. And she is a member on this board!


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## DelmarvaGold

buckeyegoldenmom said:


> Also give the breeders like Delmarva a call. Even if she doesn't have puppies herself right now. She may be able to refer you to someone who does, and is also a reputable breeder. And she is a member on this board!


I would recommend Grinning Goldens. Meggan just had a litter of 9 pups January 10th. She is super nice and a good friend of mine.

Sue


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## NuttinButGoldens

I left a VM for Meggan last night, and also sent her an email. I'm hoping she calls me back early today 

Hartford is a bit of a drive, but I think it will be worth it.

-Larry



DelmarvaGold said:


> I would recommend Grinning Goldens. Meggan just had a litter of 9 pups January 10th. She is super nice and a good friend of mine.
> 
> Sue


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## BeauShel

It is worth the drive if you get a great puppy. I drove 7 hours to get Bama.


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## NuttinButGoldens

I talked to Meggan today. It is not known at this time whether one is available. I received some further recommendations from her which I've acted on, but I'm still hoping for one of hers 

We had a very nice, long conversation. Very nice lady!

I appreciated the grilling. It shows me she really cares 

-Larry


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## buckeyegoldenmom

Oooh! Good luck in your search fro your puppy! Keep us posted on what happens!!!


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## NuttinButGoldens

Ok, I'm beginning to wonder if there ARE any Golden Retriever Puppies these days 

And not everyone seems to be onboard with the Elbow Clearance part either, yet.

Anyone heard of/dealt with Gap View Ranch in Broadway, VA ?

http://gapviewgoldenretrievers.homestead.com/

I am a former customer. This is where Comet came from 12 years ago.

He lived 12 solid years and was never really sick a day in his life until the last week. His parents were Shotgun Dakota and Las Vegas. They do have some grandchildren from their lines as well.

I'm coming up totally bust in VA/MD.

-Larry


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## buckeyegoldenmom

Be patient for the right breeder.

I don't like that GapView doesn't list the AKC names so you can research the parents and grandparents. 

Doesn't sound like they are involved in showing their dogs.

Nothing about elbows, unless I missed it in their website.

Lots of litters at this time. How do they socialize all of them?


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## NuttinButGoldens

Good question about the socialization.

-Larry



buckeyegoldenmom said:


> Be patient for the right breeder.
> 
> I don't like that GapView doesn't list the AKC names so you can research the parents and grandparents.
> 
> Doesn't sound like they are involved in showing their dogs.
> 
> Nothing about elbows, unless I missed it in their website.
> 
> Lots of litters at this time. How do they socialize all of them?


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## NuttinButGoldens

BTW folks, I'm not against picking up the right 1-2 year old with proper breeding, perfect health, and that would integrate into our family (Me, Dakota and Ronin) well.

Personality and lovingness/friendliness is paramount. 

-Larry


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## Pointgold

I checked the OFA database. None of GapView's dogs have current CERF. All cardiac exams are done by a regular vet, not a cardiologist. No elbows are done. Some of the dogs listed on their website as "Dams" have no hips, old or no CERF, and none have elbws. Same with Sires.

Not impressed at all, and I don't like their sales contract.

They have entered many of their dogs in K9 Data Check Gap View prefix.


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## NuttinButGoldens

If a breeder says their dogs have all their certs, and present them for viewing, but they aren't in the OFA database, what does that mean? Are they cheating somehow?

The lack of Elbow certs just isn't surprising me. Is this a relatively new cert? I've never even seen it before until I read about it here.

Even though I've dealt with them before, and did very well, I am concerned about there being no health guarantee. And the cert ambiguities, of course.

-Larry


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## Tahnee GR

Elbow certs have been around for a number of years-no excuse not to have them. Hip and elbow certs should always be in the OFA database, unless they used PennHIp (which can still be reported in the OFA database). Eyes (done every year) and hearts may not be in the database but they should be able to show you the actual clearance from CERF for eyes and OFA for hearts. Eyes must be done by a veterinary opthamologist and hearts should be done by a cardiologist, although OFA does allow regular vets.

And I may be mis-remembering, but when you dealt with them before, weren't they owned by someone else? That could change everything.


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## AmbikaGR

NuttinButGoldens said:


> If a breeder says their dogs have all their certs, and present them for viewing, but they aren't in the OFA database, what does that mean? Are they cheating somehow?
> 
> -Larry


It may mean they have a certificate from there local vet saying the dog is clear. Unless thier local vet is a Board Certified Specialist in that fielld it is virtually worthless. 



NuttinButGoldens said:


> The lack of Elbow certs just isn't surprising me. Is this a relatively new cert? I've never even seen it before until I read about it here.
> 
> -Larry


Elbows have been common practice for about 10 years so there is no excuse not to do them.



NuttinButGoldens said:


> Even though I've dealt with them before, and did very well, I am concerned about there being no health guarantee. And the cert ambiguities, of course.
> 
> -Larry


And back then there was another co-owner, correct? That may have been the "conscious" of the partnership that is no longer there.
I just do not get a good feeling from the website.
Finding that dog for you may take time and some travel. try to be patient.


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## NuttinButGoldens

They were partners, but I do agree. It could have changed everything...

-Larry



Tahnee GR said:


> Elbow certs have been around for a number of years-no excuse not to have them. Hip and elbow certs should always be in the OFA database, unless they used PennHIp (which can still be reported in the OFA database). Eyes (done every year) and hearts may not be in the database but they should be able to show you the actual clearance from CERF for eyes and OFA for hearts. Eyes must be done by a veterinary opthamologist and hearts should be done by a cardiologist, although OFA does allow regular vets.
> 
> And I may be mis-remembering, but when you dealt with them before, weren't they owned by someone else? That could change everything.


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## NuttinButGoldens

Oh, we're trying  I'm just looking at all avenue's available and investigating at this point.

I've notified Liberty Run that their current litter wasn't for me. Close call on that one 

I'm a LOT smarter than I was just 3 days ago!


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## NuttinButGoldens

Is it normal for there to be a Puppy Drought this time of year?


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## Pointgold

NuttinButGoldens said:


> Is it normal for there to be a Puppy Drought this time of year?


Quite. Many breeders do not like to raise winter litters.


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## buckeyegoldenmom

I know it is hard to be patient. When Cody died in early fall this past year. I did want another golden asap. My one year old Tucker and my husband and I both felt the house was too quiet with only one. It took almost 4 months to get Murphy (now 11 weeks old) But you want a good dog from a good breeder.

Maybe broaden your search if you are willing to travel and you might find a golden sooner.

Did Megan"s (was that Grinnings Goldens?) litter not pan out?


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## Ljilly28

I heard that Shoreline goldens has a cute one year old. http://www.ShorLineGoldens.com/litters.html. Not sure if you want to look that far away or if the dog can go to a pet home. . . Dad is Murphy, BIS BISS Ch. Scion Oughta Be A Law NJ, NAJ, SDHF, CGC I think.


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## NuttinButGoldens

I think in Meggans case it depended upon whether one person called back or not. Still have my fingers crossed. She knows I will take it if it becomes available 

I'm also going to call Cindy at Lycinan, but was requested that I wait until this weekend, which I will honor.

-Larry



buckeyegoldenmom said:


> I know it is hard to be patient. When Cody died in early fall this past year. I did want another golden asap. My one year old Tucker and my husband and I both felt the house was too quiet with only one. It took almost 4 months to get Murphy (now 11 weeks old) But you want a good dog from a good breeder.
> 
> Maybe broaden your search if you are willing to travel and you might find a golden sooner.
> 
> Did Megan"s (was that Grinnings Goldens?) litter not pan out?


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## NuttinButGoldens

BTW... folks, if you have access to the AKC searches (I don't), you can look up Comet as "Dakota's Comet of Las Vegas". I don't fully understand how to read all the pedigree stuff, but Shotgun Dakota and Las Vegas made me one fine dog 

He's not in the OFA as I never bred him and as such, never had him cleared. I was asked on multiple occasions to provide him for stud services, but I declined as I didn't have the clearances done.

-Larry


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## DelmarvaGold

NuttinButGoldens said:


> I think in Meggans case it depended upon whether one person called back or not. Still have my fingers crossed. She knows I will take it if it becomes available
> 
> I'm also going to call Cindy at Lycinan, but was requested that I wait until this weekend, which I will honor.
> 
> -Larry


Cindy's father passed away this past Sunday, she has a litter due today and she also has shows this weekend (same ones I am going to). So if she doesn't respond back immediately it's because she has a lot on her plate right now. Also, I saw Meggan last night at the CGRC board meeting and she told me the same thing as she told you. She has to wait and see if any are available. I have been sending a lot of people her way since I don't plan on having any puppies until very late in the year.

Both are good breeders.

Sue


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## NuttinButGoldens

Yes, Meggan explained Cindy's situation to me as well and that's why I want to honor the request to wait until this weekend.

I will be giving her a call on Saturday.

Thanks!

-Larry



DelmarvaGold said:


> Cindy's father passed away this past Sunday, she has a litter due today and she also has shows this weekend (same ones I am going to). So if she doesn't respond back immediately it's because she has a lot on her plate right now. Also, I saw Meggan last night at the CGRC board meeting and she told me the same thing as she told you. She has to wait and see if any are available. I have been sending a lot of people her way since I don't plan on having any puppies until very late in the year.
> 
> Both are good breeders.
> 
> Sue


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## Ljilly28

Is Terans Goldens in Virginia (Famous Amos??).


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## NuttinButGoldens

It looks like it (540 Area Code), but the last litter she lists is from back in August 2008.



Ljilly28 said:


> Is Terans Goldens in Virginia (Famous Amos??).


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## NuttinButGoldens

Ok, this may sound nuts but....

New puppy, which I don't even have yet, now has his own checking account with enough funds for purchase and 5-8 years of normal Vet care.

Opened the account last night 

Craigs List is GREAT for getting rid of stuff to buy new puppies


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## moverking

NuttinButGoldens said:


> Ok, this may sound nuts but....
> 
> New puppy, which I don't even have yet, now has his own checking account with enough funds for purchase and 5-8 years of normal Vet care.
> 
> Opened the account last night
> 
> Craigs List is GREAT for getting rid of stuff to buy new puppies


That's too cool, on top of being one of the most responsible puppy preps I've seen in a long time. Kudos.
Now to find that pup


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## NuttinButGoldens

Unfortunately Meggan has no puppies available 

I've sent another email to the Potomac Valley Golden Club and I'm waiting for a message back.

I've also messaged Cindy at Lycinan.


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## goldengirls550

My friend got a puppy from Eldorado/Lycinan lines. She is thrilled with him and I am watching him grow up over the next couple of years and perhaps helping show him.

It looks like Lycinan has a few litters coming up.


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## NuttinButGoldens

I can't seem to find a phone number for Lycinan. It's not on their web site. I have sent an email though.

Does anyone have their phone they could PM to me?

Thanks 



goldengirls550 said:


> My friend got a puppy from Eldorado/Lycinan lines. She is thrilled with him and I am watching him grow up over the next couple of years and perhaps helping show him.
> 
> It looks like Lycinan has a few litters coming up.


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## NuttinButGoldens

The search is over!

We have our new Puppy. Well, almost. End of February is when he will be ready to go home.

With Lycinans help I was able to find a perfect breeder only 6 miles away from my house 

And one of her top dogs is the pop 

I feel like I won the lottery!

Thanks everyone!

-Larry


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## buckeyegoldenmom

Congrats!!!! Keep us updated. Male or female?


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## NuttinButGoldens

Male

-Larry



buckeyegoldenmom said:


> Congrats!!!! Keep us updated. Male or female?


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## goldengirls550

congrats! who is the puppy out of?


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## Ljilly28

Congratulations! Good searching and persistence paid off, which is nice.


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## NuttinButGoldens

Oahu Goldens.

I feel like I won the lottery 



goldengirls550 said:


> congrats! who is the puppy out of?


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## NuttinButGoldens

There was a lot of luck involved. First, you guys saved me from a bad decision in the beginning, then a perfect recommendation from Cindy at Lycinan.

Like I said, I feel like I won the lottery 



Ljilly28 said:


> Congratulations! Good searching and persistence paid off, which is nice.


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## mylissyk

Congratulations!

I've enjoyed reading through this thread.


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## Noey

*I have a Gap View Golden*

I have a Gap View Golden, born May 2008. He is wonderful.




NuttinButGoldens said:


> Ok, I'm beginning to wonder if there ARE any Golden Retriever Puppies these days
> 
> And not everyone seems to be onboard with the Elbow Clearance part either, yet.
> 
> Anyone heard of/dealt with Gap View Ranch in Broadway, VA ?
> 
> http://gapviewgoldenretrievers.homestead.com/
> 
> I am a former customer. This is where Comet came from 12 years ago.
> 
> He lived 12 solid years and was never really sick a day in his life until the last week. His parents were Shotgun Dakota and Las Vegas. They do have some grandchildren from their lines as well.
> 
> I'm coming up totally bust in VA/MD.
> 
> -Larry


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## luv_my_goldens

*Gap View is great!*

Hi NuttinButGoldens,
Somebody must have given you some miss information about Gap View Ranch and Kennel. The owner David (has been breeding goldens for over 26 yrs and was the one who started the kennel originally). He is all about animals, especially goldens, which is his passion and it shows in the quality of his pups. His kennel is by far the cleanest and best kept I have ever seen. It's actually a 100 acre ranch with tons of animals from peacocks to horses. The dogs have tons of room to run in their exercise pens and their are so many people visiting all the time just to play with his pups that they are well socialized by the time they go home. I now have two goldens from him and would definatley recommend you check out their new website at http://www.gapviewkennel.com . It's the best breeders website I've ever seen and they actually give updates on your puppies after you pick them out with pictures and videos as well as giving you access on their site to tons of pictures from their customers and information on all their breeding goldens DNA's, pedigrees, and certifications. You can also read tons of comments about their kennel on their guestbook. 

Check them out it's a way fun site and an amazingly beautiful ranch when you visit in person.


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## NuttinButGoldens

I know them well and HAVE been there. I drove there from Fairfax, VA in 1996 and picked up Comet. Comet lived 12 wonderful years, passing this last January from Cancer. He was a perfect Golden and led a perfectly healthy life until the last week.

When I picked up Comet, Charles Howard was actually running the place. He and David Liskey were partners. Howard had to give it up some years later due to an illness in the family. David took over from there.

They still maintain lines from Comet's parents (Shotgun Dakota and Las Vegas).

I have nothing against them, other than I think their record keeping could be better, and their recording of clearances on K9 Data. That doesn't mean they don't have the paperwork, I realize.

If I had not run into the rather wonderful situation I did, they were still on my list.


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## Ljilly28

Holy smokes, is that ever a high tech website! Is LuvMyGoldens the business partner? I got confused about that.


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## luv_my_goldens

*Not a business partner.*

I'm not a business partner of Gap View Kennel. I've just become good friends with Dave and now have two amazing Goldens from his pack. Unlike other breeders I've come accross Dave will spend hrs on the phone and in person with you explaining exactly what you need to look for in certifications and health wise. He really makes as much time as you need to answer all your questions and then some. Dave is a talker and very much a people person.

Hope that helps.


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## AmbikaGR

luv_my_goldens said:


> Hi NuttinButGoldens,
> Somebody must have given you some miss information about Gap View Ranch and Kennel. The owner David (has been breeding goldens for over 26 yrs and was the one who started the kennel originally). He is all about animals, especially goldens, which is his passion and it shows in the quality of his pups. His kennel is by far the cleanest and best kept I have ever seen. It's actually a 100 acre ranch with tons of animals from peacocks to horses. The dogs have tons of room to run in their exercise pens and their are so many people visiting all the time just to play with his pups that they are well socialized by the time they go home. I now have two goldens from him and would definatley recommend you check out their new website at http://www.gapviewkennel.com . It's the best breeders website I've ever seen and they actually give updates on your puppies after you pick them out with pictures and videos as well as giving you access on their site to tons of pictures from their customers and information on all their breeding goldens DNA's, pedigrees, and certifications. You can also read tons of comments about their kennel on their guestbook.
> 
> Check them out it's a way fun site and an amazingly beautiful ranch when you visit in person.





luv_my_goldens said:


> I'm not a business partner of Gap View Kennel. I've just become good friends with Dave and now have two amazing Goldens from his pack. Unlike other breeders I've come accross Dave will spend hrs on the phone and in person with you explaining exactly what you need to look for in certifications and health wise. He really makes as much time as you need to answer all your questions and then some. Dave is a talker and very much a people person.
> 
> Hope that helps.


After again looking at the website I still get a bad vibe. As pointed out earlier despite the fact on the home page they tell you how important it is to have OFA and CERF clearances on "both" parents of your pup, they blatantly do not follow this. Many of the Dams and Sires listed on his website are missing OFA Hip and or Heart and/or CERF clearances. And All are missing elbow clearances. 
And because of this all, I am NOT at all surprised you describe the owner David as "talker and very much a people person." This is a place based on the website I would direct people away from.


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## Finn's Fan

I just looked at that website and it screams high volume breeder to me. They have five litters on the ground, all of which were whelped in one week's time. For my money, no one can adequately look after or socialize that many puppies at once unless you've got a ton of help.


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## bigds01

I just wanted to say thank you for this thread. We just got back from Gap View and it is an amazing facility. Dave has a huge staff that takes care of the dogs and he has health binders for every dog going back to at least the great grand-parents. 

We put a deposit on a dog at can't wait for it to join our family. We are owner's of two championship pooches and he was by far one of the most knowledgeable dog people I have met. We thoroughly research our breeders, and he made the cut.


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## Ljilly28

bigds01 said:


> I We are owner's of two championship pooches and he was by far one of the most knowledgeable dog people I have met. We thoroughly research our breeders, and he made the cut.


We love pictures around here! What are your dogs' names? It would be fun to see photos! Congratulations on finishing their CH's. That is a distant dream for me, but maybe someday. . .

It's great being knowledgeable and a people person, but it comes down to : Hips good/fair/excellent, elbows normal, heart cardiologist clear, CERF normal. The hard data is there or it isnt. Since I have a performance pup with bilateral elbow displaysia, I have seen through those surgery bills and the heartache first hand. A person would be crazy to buy a pup without a big effort by the breeder to record all health clearances, given the statistical analysis on ofa and at Upenn/Cornell vet schools. There's a pretty established likelyhood of bialteral elbow dysplasia,fragmented coronoid process being inheritable/genetic in origin. While clearances do not 100% safegaurd against it, they up the likelyhood of health dramatically. Maybe a super-experienced breeder who knows a dog's lines through and through could choose to breed to a fantastic dog missing one clearance for reasons of his own, but spotty clearances on several dogs in one kennel are run away red flags. Hopefully, this breeder has every single clearance in those binders!

I have never seen a breeder that big in person, though I have seen 9 smaller breeders' set ups(dogs in the house). Do they have all the boys and girls listed on the website on the actual premesis? If so, how do they fulfill each dog with play, love, interaction time, training, etc? There are so many, many litters at one time. do the pups get toys, handling exposed to vacuum, tv, kitties, little kids, etc? Samson has a nice pedigree and Bisquet looks pretty. Do they have all their clearances? I am curious.

Best of luck with your new pups. . .


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## Ljilly28

NuttinButGoldens said:


> First, the elbow cert is tough to come by! I haven't found one yet.


All of my goldens have elbow, and when the worst happened and Tango did have dysplasia despite her parents'/grandparents' good clearances, the breeder honored the contract, returning the entire purchase price along with a thank you note for loving her and caring for her. They've only has a handful of EDs in 40 years of breeding, but I didnt get lucky. However, that is when a great breeder comes through. . .The purchase price really helped with the vet bills.


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## Pointgold

bigds01 said:


> I just wanted to say thank you for this thread. We just got back from Gap View and it is an amazing facility. Dave has a huge staff that takes care of the dogs and he has health binders for every dog going back to at least the great grand-parents.
> 
> We put a deposit on a dog at can't wait for it to join our family. We are owner's of two championship pooches and he was by far one of the most knowledgeable dog people I have met. We thoroughly research our breeders, and he made the cut.


 
Who are your champions? Are they Goldens? Would love to see photos.


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## luv_my_goldens

*Gap View has all their OFA & CERF certifications on their goldens.*

It's actually interesting that some people on here claim that Gap View doesn't have their certifications on their goldens, especially, when everyone on here that has a golden from Gap View states otherwise, including me who has seen them and gotten a copy with my pet each time I've purchased a dog from them. Sounds like this discussion board has been found by a breeder who's trying to get some free advertisement and to throw a few cheap knocks at other breeders to me. 

As for Gap View's website, I think it's modern looking and up to date. It not only looks great but is also very informative and gives you the information you need to help make an informed decision. I found it very useful to see what their dogs looked like and to see their pedigrees. Hey, and atleast Gap View has a website and puts the kennel out their for people to explore and learn about (That's a major help when trying to learn about a new kennel). 

David, who owns Gap view has become a friend of mine over the past couple of years and it really urks me to hear someone try to smear his name and the name of his kennel for their own personal agenda. If he had a puppy mill I would be the first to raise a red flag! He is a people person as I stated before (And has nothing to hide ambikaGR) and makes time to talk to everyone he meets, not just puppy customers (Some breeders won't even give customers a straight forward answer - Anyone who's done their homework knows that). He does educate those searching for puppies as to what they should look for and what questions to ask so they get a healthy pet (If they get one from him or not). In my opinion, no one should buy a puppy from a "backyard breeder" or "puppy mill" and that includes getting a pet from a pet store because they tend to come from both. 

As for socialization, both of my dogs were very well adjusted to family life inside the home when I picked them up. David's pups interact with lots of people everyday (Lots of people including JMU and local public school students stop by just to play with the puppies at Gap View on a regular basis; David and his staff seem to spend so much time in the kennel when I'm visiting the puppies are hardly left alone). And more importantly they get to interact with and learn from their litter mates, their mother, and other goldens at the ranch. 

I would suggest anyone reading this bullitein board do their own research into kennels and make plenty of calls and visits before you choose one. You can find some good information on bullitein boards, but it's not always true or in your best interest. A good place to start for recommendations on breeders are your local veterinarians. Other good places are rescue organizations like GREAT or local kennel clubs.


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## luv_my_goldens

To answer your question about do all the dogs live at Gap View? Not all of David's dogs do live at the Ranch, but they are generally around when they are part of an expecting litter. The Dam Cinnamon for example lives in Southern Virginia with her adoptive parent who is a veterinarian. Cinnamon is the Dam of my dog Cody and her family was at the kennel with Cinnammon the day we got to pick Cody out. 

Take care.


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## bigds01

luv_my_goldens said:


> To answer your question about do all the dogs live at Gap View? Not all of David's dogs do live at the Ranch, but they are generally around when they are part of an expecting litter. The Dam Cinnamon for example lives in Southern Virginia with her adoptive parent who is a veterinarian. Cinnamon is the Dam of my dog Cody and her family was at the kennel with Cinnammon the day we got to pick Cody out.
> 
> Take care.


We sent him our deposit today. We just can't wait. I think the problem is people don't like the concept of someone being able to breed as a business. He does a damm good job, and I am happy to get our next pooch from him.


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## AmbikaGR

luv_my_goldens said:


> It's actually interesting that some people on here claim that Gap View doesn't have their certifications on their goldens, especially, when everyone on here that has a golden from Gap View states otherwise, including me who has seen them and gotten a copy with my pet each time I've purchased a dog from them. Sounds like this discussion board has been found by a breeder who's trying to get some free advertisement and to throw a few cheap knocks at other breeders to me.


Well according to OFA he does not have all his clearance through them on all his dogs. Fact!
Go to the OFA website and check for yourself as I did.



luv_my_goldens said:


> As for Gap View's website, I think it's modern looking and up to date. It not only looks great but is also very informative and gives you the information you need to help make an informed decision. I found it very useful to see what their dogs looked like and to see their pedigrees. Hey, and atleast Gap View has a website and puts the kennel out their for people to explore and learn about (That's a major help when trying to learn about a new kennel).


It is modern looking but not up to date with clearance information on his dogs. 
I will admit it does give some excellent information on what are some of the things to look for when searching for a breeder. That is why it is even more perplexing to me that he does not have the same clearances on his dogs that he recommends for other breeders.



luv_my_goldens said:


> David, who owns Gap view has become a friend of mine over the past couple of years and it really urks me to hear someone try to smear his name and the name of his kennel for their own personal agenda. If he had a puppy mill I would be the first to raise a red flag! He is a people person as I stated before (And has nothing to hide ambikaGR) and makes time to talk to everyone he meets, not just puppy customers (Some breeders won't even give customers a straight forward answer - Anyone who's done their homework knows that). He does educate those searching for puppies as to what they should look for and what questions to ask so they get a healthy pet (If they get one from him or not). In my opinion, no one should buy a puppy from a "backyard breeder" or "puppy mill" and that includes getting a pet from a pet store because they tend to come from both.


No attempt to smear anyone's name. Just telling people who ask about what they should be looking for when looking for a pup. If the breeder does not do the basic and accepted practices for responsible breeding then I will point out where I feel they fall short. Again no smear, just facts. 
In my opinion Gap View falls into the "backyard breeder" group from the info I see on his website. My opinion, and I am intitled to it.



luv_my_goldens said:


> I would suggest anyone reading this bullitein board do their own research into kennels and make plenty of calls and visits before you choose one. You can find some good information on bullitein boards, but it's not always true or in your best interest. A good place to start for recommendations on breeders are your local veterinarians. Other good places are rescue organizations like GREAT or local kennel clubs.


I would suggest anyone looking for a pup to ask ALL the questions and ask to SEE all the documentation BEFORE leaving a deposit with ANY breeder. The best place to look for referrals for responsible breeders is with your local breed clubs. Most have a "Code Of Ethis" they must abide by in order to be referred by the club.


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