# Help - Knowledge of Knight's Goldens or Heart of Autumn Golden Retrievers



## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

I don't know either of these breeders but it seems like they both are on puppywups or pets4you which are the listing site ps most commonly used by comercial and back yard breeders. If you wanted to check on them, registered names are the best peice of information. 

Based on what I can see, the advertisements are designed to show pictures, call names and cute puppies. This is not usually an indicator high quality breeders who proudly health test their dogs. 

If they did provide you with registered names, the forum is really good at helping to double check the health certifications.


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## Flashtrax (May 5, 2015)

Thank you Laura. 

Below is the information I was provided regarding the litter at Knight's Goldens:

Dam: Knight's Shelby GT SR74040508
Sire: Hillside's Jonah Of Ninevah SR53005301

For the sire I was also provided a preliminary OFA consultation report.

Thanks so much for your help


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Mom has all 4 core clearances but her heart clearance is only through a regular vet, not a cardiologist. Regular vets have been known to miss murmurs layer caught by cardiologists.

Dad is old enough for clearances but only had cardiac listed. A prelim isn't a clearance and doesn't count. Given that the dam has all of her clearances, they know what is necessary. I would be suspicious that he failed a clearance, especially since his mother doesn't have an elbow clearance.

Keep looking, I am sure you could do better.

You can find this information by going to Orthopedic Foundation for Animals and inputting the dog's registered name.


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## Flashtrax (May 5, 2015)

Thank you Linda for your thoughts. I was also provided the Carbon Copy of the Canine Eye Registration form which looks like the vet indicated normal. 

But it is very interesting that these haven't been made official

And it is interesting the the breeder (Knight) may not have required the sire to have all of his papers.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Flashtrax said:


> Thank you Laura.
> 
> Below is the information I was provided regarding the litter at Knight's Goldens:
> 
> ...


Here is the links to the k9Data and OFA info for the dogs

Pedigree: Hillside's Jonah Of Ninevah
Orthopedic Foundation for Animals
The dad just shows A cardiac clearance. He is missing hips, elbows, and annual Eye exams. He is old enough to have his full, adult hip and elbow certifications but he does not. His prelims are not certifications and I question why his final certifications are not verifiable. Did they choose to not do them or did he fail? I find niether acceptable in my opinion. I have known dogs that have had prelims who failed the final certifications.

Pedigree: Knight's Shelby GT
Orthopedic Foundation for Animals
The mom is better but her heart was done by a practitioner (pet vet) instead of the cardiologist I expect to see on dogs born after 2011.

Both dogs have a hole in the clearance pedigree behind them. Both have moms that are missing an elbow clearance. This means they were not tested or more likely had elbow displaysia and failed.

There is a lot missing here. I would expect to pay at most $1000 for this type of breeding. Though, honestly I would not buy from this litter. I know California is pricy but for $1800-$2000 you can get a puppy from fully heath tested parents, with generations of clearances behind them and the parents will have accomplishments.


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## Flashtrax (May 5, 2015)

Thank you Laura and Linda.

The asking price for these pups is $1,500. I really appreciate all of your insight.


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## Simigold (May 5, 2016)

I just wanted to let you know that the form that comes from the ophthalmologlist is the actual certification.


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## Simigold (May 5, 2016)

*AKC Golden Retriever breeder*

These posts give inaccurate information and misrepresents my breeding program. They make statements that are assumed and inaccurate. How can they pass judgement on me when they don't even know me. I have been breeding for over 30 years and take great pride in breeding the healthiest puppies possible. If you have any questions please contact me!!!


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Tahnee GR said:


> Mom has all 4 core clearances but her heart clearance is only through a regular vet, not a cardiologist. Regular vets have been known to miss murmurs layer caught by cardiologists.
> 
> Dad is old enough for clearances but only had cardiac listed. A prelim isn't a clearance and doesn't count. Given that the dam has all of her clearances, they know what is necessary. I would be suspicious that he failed a clearance, especially since his mother doesn't have an elbow clearance.
> 
> ...


This is all still true today. It appears the sire never received his final clearances even though he'll be 8 this year according to his OFA page.


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## Simigold (May 5, 2016)

Jonah never failed any of his testing. He has a prelim Good hips and elbows. He was also cleared with cerf and passed his OFA heart. They just never got his OFA finals on his hips. He is now retired and lives back east with his family.


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## goldenmommy92 (Feb 9, 2017)

*Heart of Autumn Goldens*

I have gotten two golden retrievers from Barbara Pettijohn (Heart of Autumn Golden Retrievers). My parents also have a golden from the same litter my first golden from Barbara was picked from - so three doggies from Barbara in our family, two are six years old and one is a puppy.

The two six year olds are AMAZING dogs. My six year old boy is the sweetest dog I have ever seen. He is beautiful too, people stop their cars when we walk him to comment on how regal and beautiful he is - his father was Hunter, so he is a big hearty English build with a block head. His health has been great, even being so big as of yet we have had no trouble with him whatsoever. He is a gentle giant! His sister and littermate is my parent's golden. She is smart, sweet, and super good with children. She's athletic and walks a ton - lots of energy and very good with my parent's other older dog. She and her brother play all the time! Again, she has been in perfect health so far at six years old. 

Our newest addition is a puppy we just got who is three months old. He is a doll and is in great health and good temperament. Barbara has all the litters temperament tested and for all three of our goldens, the results of the temperament tests have been right on. Our newest puppy and our six year old golden are getting along amazingly well.

I highly recommend Barbara Pettijohn.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

KnightL said:


> These posts give inaccurate information and misrepresents my breeding program. They make statements that are assumed and inaccurate. How can they pass judgement on me when they don't even know me. I have been breeding for over 30 years and take great pride in breeding the healthiest puppies possible. If you have any questions please contact me!!!


No one needs to know you to be able to see there are missing or deficient health certifications on the publicly verifiable OFA database. You should expect that when you advertise as OFA certified to would be concerning and confusing when they are not on the OFA website. Also, not liking what people are sharing about the publicly verifiable health certifications of your dogs does not make it inaccurate. 

The eye exam forms are just that, certification would be submitting the exam and getting the actual certificate from OFA. It cost $12 for the first and $8 the subsequent exams that should be done each year.

If you want to have the appropriate Cardiologist heart exam and certification, you can find a Cardiologist near you here Simi Valley, California, United States Veterinary Cardiologist - Find & Compare Veterinary Cardiologist Professionals in Simi Valley, California, United States
Then pay the small fee to submit it to OFA and get the actual certification. 

Prelims are not the certifications for hips and elbows. When a dog does not have the actual certifications there are only 2 reasons why that could be. 1. They were never tested or 2. The dog failed. That is it. No one made any claims about your dog beyond pointing out he is missing the certifications and what the reasons for that could be. Yes, it suspicious when a dog that is being bred gets prelims and never the actual certifications, it can mean the dog failed. That is an accurate statement. 

If you don't like the questions about health that the lack of verifiable health certifications in your program is causing, it is very simple to fix. Just do the appropriate testing at the appropriate ages and submit the results to OFA. 

Then you can spend your contact time answering fun questions about your dogs, not trying to justify why the health testing was not important enough to be properly completed.


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## Simigold (May 5, 2016)

Dear Laura… LJack

I share in your goals to teach and inform the public and breeders alike of the guidelines of the OFA, and AKC. My mission, like yours is to protect and improve the standards and health of the golden retriever heritage… 

Hillsides Jonah of Ninevah is a retired stud. Jonah does not belong to me. Jonah was 20 months old when he had his pre-lim done, he has good hips and normal elbows. If he was 4 months older it would of been his final OFA certification. Jonah never had his final X-rays done. A cardiologist examine his heart and it was normal. An Ophthalmologist examined his eyes for (CERF) his eyes were normal. I have all of the Doctor's documents which are available to my puppy owners. 
IF ANYONE HAS ANY QUESTIONS PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CALL ME.. 

Dedicated to the breed,
(Removed by request)


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

KnightL said:


> Dear Laura… LJack
> 
> I share in your goals to teach and inform the public and breeders alike of the guidelines of the OFA, and AKC. My mission, like yours is to protect and improve the standards and health of the golden retriever heritage…
> 
> ...


Hi Lynda is Mira who's advertised on Breeders.net as having a litter the same Mira in this k9data link: http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=717030? If so, she has a practitioner heart & does not have a hip or elbow clearance. And Winter who is the dam of Mira & also being advertised as having a litter has the same deficiencies. Are these dogs also retired & living out back east?


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

SheetsSM said:


> Hi Lynda is Mira who's advertised on Breeders.net as having a litter the same Mira in this k9data link: http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=717030? If so, she has a practitioner heart & does not have a hip or elbow clearance. And Winter who is the dam of Mira & also being advertised as having a litter has the same deficiencies. Are these dogs also retired & living out back east?


Found the litters on AKC marketplace. The breeder marked "yes" to "The applicable health screens have been performed on the sire and dam as recommended by the Parent Club for this breed." Which looking at the sire/dam of each litter I find to be highly misleading to potential buyers.


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## LJack (Aug 10, 2012)

Perhaps you can help me understand. When you are dedicated to the breed and asking top dollar at $2000 for puppies, why is getting to one of the several Cardiologist near you not happening for your girls and current stud? Why are you choosing repeatedly to do prelims, misrepresent them as certifications to your buyers and never complete the actual certifications? Why are you not completing annual eye exams and paying the small $12 fee to have the results certified as you claim?

If you want to educate others I would suggest that you begin by refocusing yourself. Get the full health certifications you are currently claiming. Your currently wording things in a way that at best makes it look that for all your years of breeding and care you profess, you have not availed yourself of even the most basic public information on Golden health testing or at worst 
might be interpreted as purposely predatory exploitation of puppy buyers. 

For any puppy buyers, the Golden Retriever Club of America has supplied a Code of Ethics that includes what testing and at what ages should be done for our breeding Goldens. Our breed has some serious health issues. Reputable breeders manage these issues in the effort to eliminate them using appropriate tests and certifications. This code of ethics can be viewed in its entirety here https://www.grca.org/about-the-breed/grca-code-of-ethics/ an I have quoted the health testing section below.


"Specific Guidelines 
I. Dogs selected for breeding should:

Be of temperament typical of the breed, i.e., stable, friendly, trainable, and willing to work. Temperament is of utmost importance to the breed and must never be neglected or altered from the Standard.

Be of conformation typical of the breed.

Be in overall good health, and be physically and mentally mature (which is generally not until two years of age).

Possess examination reports and certifications as outlined below to evaluate and document status concerning recommended screening examinations; and these reports should be publicly available in an approved online database. Approved online databases include registries under management of veterinary professional associations; registries maintained by non-profit organizations with veterinary staff or advisory boards; and university-based registries under veterinary advisement. U.S. registries should be used for dogs residing in the U.S., unless previously evaluated (as in III below) prior to importation.

Hip and elbow certifications from the Ontario Veterinary College (OVC) prior to its discontinuation in 2012 are acceptable for dogs residing in the U.S., providing the dog was 24 months of age or older at the time of the examination. Reports should be recorded in an approved online database as described above.
Submission of abnormal information to the OFA online database is encouraged.

II. The following reports are acceptable for dogs residing in the U.S.:

Hips – a report from the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) or PennHIP at 24 months of age or older. Since PennHIP results are not automatically published, these results should be recorded in an approved online database as described above.

Elbows – a report from the OFA at 24 months of age or older.

Hearts – a report from a Diplomat of the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine (Cardiology), at 12 months of age or older. Report should be recorded in an approved online database as described above.

Eyes – a report from a Diplomat of the American College of Veterinary Ophthalmology. Examinations should be done within 12 months prior to a breeding, and results should be recorded in an approved online database as described above.
Dogs that produce offspring should continue to have ophthalmology examinations on a yearly basis for their lifetime, and if the findings permit recertification, the results should continue to be recorded in an approved online database.
For frozen semen from deceased dogs, either an ophthalmology examination within 18 months of the date of death, or status that was in compliance with the Code of Ethics in effect at the time of the dog’s death, will be considered current."

At a $2000 price, puppy buyers should expect full and easily verifiable health certifications and parents that have some accomplishments. That is sadly, very far from what Knight's Golden Retrievers is offering.

Below is the current dogs for which the claim of the appropriate health testing has been made.


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## Simigold (May 5, 2016)

Ok... golden retriever police.. You are absolutely right. You now have my promise that i will always from this day forward make sure all clearances are sent in and kept up to-date. In addition I will complete any current dogs information that i am using..


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

I'm new to this forum but personally feel everyone here took the time to politely explain the lack of complete clearances for your breeding program, something you claimed to have. Any good breeder that truly wants to improve should have welcomed advice and the opportunity to learn from their mistakes. You have a chance to actually improve your program and deliver what you have been promising to your customers.

Accepting the truth may be uncomfortable but found your last response to be petty and insulting. People come to this forum to share and learn so they can make an educated decision when purchasing a puppy. Your response was like a child getting caught with their hand in the cookie jar. Certainly not a breeder I would ever support.


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## Neeko13 (Jul 10, 2010)

Just keeping up on this thread, please be aware that this is a forum where we come to give advice, and get advice, not to bash each other.... I hope we can keep this civil. just an observation. thanks...


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