# Sudden aggression



## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

Hmm, it could be the thyroid or that he just doesn't like the new pup, since he has no issue with the other dog. Keeping him secluded in your room is not a good permanent solution, but I'm sure you know this. You might need to see a behaviorist. First though, I'd check his thyroid levels and see if his meds need to be adjusted.

Good luck, I'm sorry you're going through this.


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Think back about what each dog was doing when the fights started, what was their posture, who or what was between or near them. Was the puppy standing over Rocky or standing between Rocky and someone or something he values? You may find that the puppy is presenting a dominant posture and setting off the fights. It very well could be jockying for hierarchy position between them.

Have Rocky's thyroid level check to be sure there is no problem there. But then I would have a trainer with experience in dog interaction, or even a certified behaviourist, come into your home to observe the dogs interacting. 

I think you may not be noticing the puppy pushing the envelope and setting Rocky off. Please don't blame him, as in any situation there are two sides of the equation. But you need someone with experiencing to come in and pinpoint the problem.


----------



## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Read the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior position statement on dominance:
http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/dominance statement.pdf

How long was the puppy in the home before these incidents started to occur? Is it "sudden" changes or "since the puppy arrived"?

If you are able to work with a veterinary behaviorist..... that could be a fabulous option for both dogs. In many parts of the country bulldogs tend to be predisposed to sets of behaviors that other dogs do not enjoy and perceive as rude/inappropriate. And if the puppy is not abiding by appropriate dog 'rules' your dog may be getting seriously distressed over this.

Separation is a good thing. If the reactivity is not at-the-site-of the other, you can have them doing appropriate 'group' activities. Walk the dogs (one dog per person) at an appropriate distance but as a group. Have both on leash, sit on opposite sides of the family room during tv time. Each dog is getting reinforced for quiet and relaxed behaviors.

Here's a piece on finding appropriate professionals:
http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/finding help for a pet.pdf

http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/behavior professionals.pdf


----------



## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

I'd talk to the Vet and see if his thyroid meds need adjusting. I'd also have him fully checked out for any other type of medical issue. If he's in pain somewhere, he'll become more grumpy and aggressive.

If everything checks out alright, I'd then arrange to have a behaviorist evaluate him.


----------



## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Just off the top of my head...I would assume that a 6 month old bull dog puppy "intruder" might be trying to find his place in the family structure and your Rocky might see him as a threat as the pup pushes boundries. I can see where a pup that age can create a problem for an established dog...

I'm curious why your parents don't have more loyalty for Rocky . Has he lived with your parents for 4 years? Or did you move back in with them?


----------



## Nicole74 (May 30, 2009)

Lucky's mom said:


> I'm curious why your parents don't have more loyalty for Rocky . Has he lived with your parents for 4 years? Or did you move back in with them?


That's what I was thinking. Why would you have to rehome your dog that you have known and loved for 4 years. It seems a bit unfair.


----------



## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

I also was wondering why Rocky is the one to be put in a bedroom..is the puppu being crate trained? I like the ideas that RedDogs gave


----------



## Rocky206 (Apr 30, 2010)

Thank you everyone for your input on this. I am still at a loss trying to figure this out. I've got a call in to the vet to get Rocky's thryoid levels checked next week, just be sure that he is ok there. 
To answer some questions. Rocky and I moved back home about 9 months ago to help with my elderly grandmother. Everything has been fine until the new puppy arrived. I am tending to think that it is the new dog trying to establish his place in the house, and Rocky is the one getting blamed for causing problems. I don't think that Rocky should be the one getting punished here. The puppy is not being crate trained. He was pretty much house broken when they got him. 
We have been getting the 2 dogs together while on leashes and walking them and keeping them in the living room together. My mom is just too afraid to let them spend too much time together and completely freaks if they get too close. I don't think that her fear helps the problem either. Hopefully things will get better. Rocky is my baby boy, and I don't plan on him ever leaving my side.


----------



## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

I would think you may have a three point issue here - 
1) Thyroid problems may give rise to aggression
2) Unneutered male wanting to fight for position
3) A harder breed whose personality is beginning to take shape

I would crate train the puppy, but he belongs to your parents, so I don't know if that is possible. Put his toys in the crate and feed him in the crate.
Can you see if your parents are reinforcing the puppy's perceived sense of entitlement when it comes to dominance? Simple acts like allowing the puppy to eat first or giving him the best treats or best toys can give him a sense that he's the boss.

With my dogs I always observe their established pack order. It may not be who you would think. In our family, my female was alpha over the males.

Goldens, from what I've read, are softer breeds than bulldogs. The bulldog personality is coming up as the puppy matures, IMHO.

And your Mom's concern is fueling the situation. Do you have acccess to a behaviourist?


----------



## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Lilliam said:


> I would think you may have a three point issue here -
> 1) Thyroid problems may give rise to aggression
> 2) Unneutered male wanting to fight for position
> 3) A harder breed whose personality is beginning to take shape
> ...


I,m going with number 2


----------



## Nicole74 (May 30, 2009)

Well, I'm assuming the two dogs were not introduced properly and now there is conflict within the pack. I still don't think it's right that you would have to rehome your pup. I'm so sorry you have to go through with this. 

I've read that sometimes it takes weeks to introduce a new dog into the house. I hope your mom can understand this and do this the proper way. 

I brought Annie home three weeks ago and I had the two dogs meet in neutral grounds before I brought them in the house. I had both the dogs on a leash and Annie was in the kennel until they got use to each others smells. I had to call my mom over to help because I could not hold both leashes.

The girls do get along very well. I don't know what would happen if I just let them run loose in the beginning. I'm assuming they would of gotten into a fight right away.

Maybe you can leash the two dogs together for the time being until they get to know each other. Or maybe kennel one of them out in the room where the other one is at. With the leashes, there is more control over the dogs and you can correct any dominace. This is how I personally would do this.

I really hope you can work this out with your mother. I know how you feel. My mom came and lived at my house and I HAD to live by her rules when my dad lost his job. Ugh!


----------



## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Is Oddo an English Bulldog or an American Bulldog? While English Bulldogs are generally dog friendly dogs, they have a hard time communicating with other dogs. The wrinkles on their noses confuses other dogs and they tend to snort which makes other dogs think they are growling and acting aggressive. American bulldogs are frequently dog aggressive, they were bred to be dog-fighting dogs. 

The Bulldog is also at an age when his "puppy license" is expiring and adult dogs will start correcting them. 

If there is any way you can get someone experienced with dog communications to observe their interactions, you maybe able to get to the crux of the situation.


----------



## Rocky206 (Apr 30, 2010)

Oddo is an American Bulldog. They are the only dogs that my family has owned for the last 15 years or so. I broke out of the box when I adopted Rocky. It was kind of a shock to everyone when I came home with a golden. It was love at first sight though.

I will be meeting with the vet this week when we take Oddo in for his neutering. I don't know if there are any behaviourists in my area, as we live in a very small town. The vet should be able to help with that. I'm hoping that he will also be able to help my mom see that this is not all Rocky's fault. 

They were introduced on leashes to each other outside in the yard. We then went on a walk so that they could sniff each other out some more. The problems didn't start until Oddo had been in the house about a week. The first fight was over a toy. Rocky had it, Oddo wanted it, and well Rocky told him I don't think so. There have only been 2 fights that I don't really have a clear reason why it started. Right now we have been keeping Oddo on a leash while in the house and walking them together at least 2 times a day. So far no problems in the last 5 days.


----------



## Lilliam (Apr 28, 2010)

Good thing there have been no more problems!!! YAY!!! I would like to suggest an exercise, if I may.
Sounds like the trigger was a toy. If both dogs are made to realise that they toy is really yours to decide what to do with, perhaps it will stop the guarding over the toy. I would sit with your dog and someone else with the other dog. Take the toy that was the problem and offer it to Rocky. Take the toy back and let Rocky now he was a good boy. Do the same with Oddo. Repeat several times increasing the desirability of the toy.
I believe would show both dogs that you claim the toy as yours and you decide who plays with it. I've done this with my guys when there has been guarding. Of course, I don't have goldens (yet!) but I believe this would prove useful with other breeds because they're simply establishing the family hierarchy. If you show yourself to be the leader they have no place to go but to follow.


----------



## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

In the dog world, possession is 9/10ths of the law, or maybe even more. If a dog has a toy and another dog tries to take it away, the first dog has the right to say back off and the second dog should back off. That would be polite dog communication. If the second dog does not back off or escalates the conflict, he is being rude and obnoxious. This is where the puppy license comes into it. As a younger pup, the second dog (Oddo) could get away with not backing off, but to escalate the conflict would be a bratty thing to do at anytime.

Imagine that a eighteen year old boy is playing with his Ipod and his thirteen year old cousin comes over and tries to grab it from him. The older cousin has the right to say "back off." If the younger cousin then takes a swing at the older cousin or jumps on him in response, the older cousin has a right to defend himself.

It seems to me the bulldog is being rude. Hopefully getting him neutered will lessen his testosterone fueled brattiness.


----------



## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

When Ranger first met Blue (about 3-4 months old at the time), we had to keep Ranger on leash for the first 3 weeks whenever Blue was around since Ranger would get a little rough with Blue. We kept all toys away from them until they sorted out who was in charge as toys just added to the issue. 

We did the same things as mentioned above - kept them in the same area but on leashes OR just Ranger on leash. I'd umbilical cord him to me and then keep moving around so he was forced to ignore whatever the puppy was doing and pay attention to me. I'd also take Ranger on an hour walk in the morning before he met up with Blue so he'd be calmer, then we'd do group walks at lunch.

I would definitely keep them together (safely) since ideally you want to sort this out before the bulldog goes through his "challenge" phase and your golden can help teach proper manners. I can see more serious problems occuring if you keep them segregrated until the bulldog is older and more set in his ways. 

Ranger and Blue worked through things and have been best buddies since Blue hit 5 months. There's been times when they've snapped at each other but no fights - they already know who's in charge between them and they both know who's in charge when I go out there. Blue spent 2 weeks trying to push his way up the ranks but both Ranger and I knocked him down a peg when he tried that. We still keep bones away from them because Blue is obssessed with them, but other than that, they are great. 


Try the ideas mentioned in the thread, keep all toys away from them while they're together and you should start to see improvements in short while.


----------



## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Even when things do get better between the two dogs, I'd keep them separated when you can't supervise them. I recently met a friend's 11 month old American Bulldog, and that thing was MASSIVE and extremely dominant over the other dog in the household. I wouldn't trust it alone with Flora for 5 seconds.


----------

