# Update on Lincoln and switching to Acana



## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

For the first few days I mixed Pro Plan with Acana. Didnt seem to bother him. Yesterday was the very first day he was fed just Acana and his poops today were perfect!!!

I honestly was expecting him to have massive runs for a week or two. But I guess I was wrong


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Lincoln_16 said:


> For the first few days I mixed Pro Plan with Acana. Didnt seem to bother him. Yesterday was the very first day he was fed just Acana and his poops today were perfect!!!
> 
> I honestly was expecting him to have massive runs for a week or two. But I guess I was wrong


Pro Plan is a better food should have stayed with that.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

WasChampionFan said:


> Pro Plan is a better food should have stayed with that.


I used to be a die hard Proplan fan til I found out 1 of their products was to blame for making my Zoey sick- She died earlier this week. I will never buy another Nestle Purina Proplan product again. 

What makes Proplan so much better than Arcana? Acana is highly rated by pet food review sites both independent and other.

I know Lincoln's owner did not take the need to change his food lightly.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Lincoln_16 said:


> For the first few days I mixed Pro Plan with Acana. Didnt seem to bother him. Yesterday was the very first day he was fed just Acana and his poops today were perfect!!!
> 
> I honestly was expecting him to have massive runs for a week or two. But I guess I was wrong


I hope Link continues to do well on it


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

MikaTallulah said:


> I used to be a die hard Proplan fan til I found out 1 of their products was to blame for making my Zoey sick- She died earlier this week. I will never buy another Nestle Purina Proplan product again.
> 
> What makes Proplan so much better than Arcana? Acana is highly rated by pet food review sites both independent and other.
> 
> I know Lincoln's owner did not take the need to change his food lightly.


Acana is a marketing department food, just puts lots of ingredients in a bag and charge a lot for it. Untested.

I don't use Pro Plan, but come up against lots of top dogs on Pro Plan Performance and haven't noticed a thing wrong with them. 

I use Annamaet and love it but I would take Pro Plan or Pro Plan Select over any Champion products. Smoke and Mirrors company.

I really would only use three foods, Annamaet, Dr. Tims or Red Paw, although Precise is really good too.

What happened to your dog with Pro Plan?


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

WasChampionFan said:


> Acana is a marketing department food, just puts lots of ingredients in a bag and charge a lot for it. Untested.
> 
> I don't use Pro Plan, but come up against lots of top dogs on Pro Plan Performance and haven't noticed a thing wrong with them.
> 
> ...


I don't want to hijack this thread.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/our-thoughts/110645-zoey-yorkie-going-vet.html (Zoey's story)

Long story short- Purina owns a jerky treat company linked with killing and making many dogs. They refuse to voluntarily recall the product even with hundreds of people reporting illness in their pets. They are all about the money.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I never did like feeding him Purina. It was the only food that his gut agreed on at the time. I find it very odd that I pulled him off RAW in October and his first staph infection was December 5th. He was put on Pro Plan right after being taken off RAW. 

Ingredients for PP 
Salmon, brewers rice, canola meal, oat meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), salmon meal (natural source of glucosamine), pearled barley, brewers dried yeast, animal digest, salt, potassium chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, Vitamin E supplement, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), manganese sulfate, niacin, calcium carbonate, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.

Acana Lamb
Lamb meal, deboned lamb, steel-cut oats, peas, whole apples, whole potato, sunflower oil, oat flakes, lamb liver, sun-cured alfalfa, whole pears, algae meal (source of DHA, EPA), pea fiber, sweet potato, pumpkin, butternut squash, parsnips, carrots, spinach, cranberries, blueberries, kelp, chicory root, juniper berries, angelica root, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, lavender, rosemary.

IMO Acana has way better ingredients. It thought about changing his food for a couple months. I still have an unopened bag of Pro Plan here. Pro Plan also has unspecified animal fat and digest. Those could be turkey, chicken, Lamb...of heaven forbid fluffy..

Purina throws in a bunch of ingredients and charges alot for them. Their food is comparable to Beneful which is half the cost of Pro Plan yet same company. Champion pet foods is a Canadian based company and I like supporting my local economy. Im already noticing a huge difference in my dogs stool size after switching. In Pro Plan all he did was poop out grains. On Acana, its so much smaller


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

As Oprah is fan of saying "When you know better you do better." I used Proplan for over 14 years with my dogs and actual Proplan did not harm my dog but the company that makes it did. I bought Proplan for Lucky back in 1998 and never looked at another brand really. The label listing ingredients back in 1998 looked much different back then than it does now. I never really read the label after I started with it. Lucky did great on it but maybe I was just very lucky with him.


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

So many top breeders and like use ProPlan with amazing results. My 2 goldens breeders use it and my dane breeder has been using it for 28 years. I dont use it but seriously wonder if i shouldve stayed with it instead of trying and trying all these "high end" foods that only cause loose stools, weight loss etc. I am worried of the Purina recalls a few years back so thats what scared me away from it


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

I'm glad that he is doing better on the new food! For all of the talk of what food is better and etc, the important thing to remember is the best food is the food that your dog does best on!


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I lost a dog to the 2007 recalls. He was 7 months old. That is a good enough reason for me to not want to feed Purina considering thats one of the foods the guy I lost was on


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

Lincoln_16 said:


> I lost a dog to the 2007 recalls. He was 7 months old. That is a good enough reason for me to not want to feed Purina considering thats one of the foods the guy I lost was on


That is so sad, I'm so sorry to hear that!


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

WasChampionFan said:


> Acana is a marketing department food, just puts lots of ingredients in a bag and charge a lot for it. Untested.
> 
> I don't use Pro Plan, but come up against lots of top dogs on Pro Plan Performance and haven't noticed a thing wrong with them.
> 
> ...


If you think Proplan is better maybe you should feed it to your dogs. These top dogs would probably excel no matter what you feed them. They are well engineered athletes.

Pro plan select is full of soy making it a lower grade dog food than even regular Proplan or Proplan Performance.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Feed what works best for you and your dog. Nestle- Purina- Proplan does not work for me. Plain and simple.

I hope Link continues to do great on the new food.


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## Golden Oliver (Dec 18, 2011)

I'm happy that your dog is doing well with the Acana food. I switched Oliver to Acana Large Breed Puppy about 3 weeks ago and he's doing really well with it too.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

MikaTallulah said:


> If you think Proplan is better maybe you should feed it to your dogs. These top dogs would probably excel no matter what you feed them. They are well engineered athletes.
> 
> Pro plan select is full of soy making it a lower grade dog food than even regular Proplan or Proplan Performance.


The selects don't have soy. It's the shredded types that are soy laden. http://www.proplan.com/products/detail/selects.aspx


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> The selects don't have soy. It's the shredded types that are soy laden. - Products - Purina® Pro Plan®


Oops by bad. Thanks for the clarification. I just I wasn't thinking properly at the time.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Found a video on the food I feed for anyone interested.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Neat video. I love his accent.


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## artbuc (Apr 12, 2009)

WasChampionFan said:


> Acana is a marketing department food, just puts lots of ingredients in a bag and charge a lot for it. Untested....I use Annamaet and love it but I would take Pro Plan or Pro Plan Select over any Champion products. Smoke and Mirrors company.


WasChampionFan, I wish you would give us some concrete examples showing Champion to be a smoke and mirrors company. I watched the video in this thread and, of course, it is a marketing effort intended to show the company in the best possible light. However, did it contain untruths and/or misrepresentations? Was that actually Champion's facility which appeared to be modern, clean and computer controlled? Were the people real Champion employees or were they actors? I thought I was feeding my dog a very high quality food but now you have me concerned. You are very high on Annamaet. Could you tell us specifically what makes Annamaet better than Champion?


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

artbuc said:


> WasChampionFan, I wish you would give us some concrete examples showing Champion to be a smoke and mirrors company. I watched the video in this thread and, of course, it is a marketing effort intended to show the company in the best possible light. However, did it contain untruths and/or misrepresentations? Was that actually Champion's facility which appeared to be modern, clean and computer controlled? Were the people real Champion employees or were they actors? I thought I was feeding my dog a very high quality food but now you have me concerned. You are very high on Annamaet. Could you tell us specifically what makes Annamaet better than Champion?


Well you are not feeding a bad food, so relax. Champion is very slick about using this "regional Canadian ingredient" nonsense but the truth is most of the protein in the food comes from the same sources that other pet food companies use, particularly the poultry meals which come from the US not Canada. You don't see that on the video do you? The Orijen White Paper is pure plagiarism, no primary research just a marketing trick with quotes taken out of context. When the company was sold, did it even have the courtesy to let its customers know? No, in fact, the old CEO & owner is still listed on the Acana website. I think if they actually told customers that the new owners and CEO don't have any pet food experience and spent their careers making and selling chemicals, people would be angry. They hid the whole thing.

The company markets the food as 70/30 right? Well that is very misleading because that 70% is mostly water. That slurry you see in the buckets is just a bunch of chicken necks and backs ground with even extra water. It is total BS. That fresh meat doesn't add to a hill of beans when it comes to protein content. The protein comes from a bunch of average plants in the southern US.

It is just another food nothing more and nothing less. This Lincoln poster sounds like an insider in some way. Why would anyone just post that silly video. The plant is a dump by the way, there are plenty of articles about the smells coming out of there and how the town feels about it. 

Research a women called The Cat Mother and see what she found out after getting documents under the Freedom of Information Act.

I like a few foods, Annamaet, Dr. Tims & Redpaw. Annamaet is a local company for me so I have been a customer for years and years. The reason why Annamaet is better is because the guy who owns the company knows his stuff. He is a well known and published scientist and successful sled dog racer. He has is own kennel of 30 or so dogs to test his foods. 25 years never a recall and if you ever go to a competitive event you will see teams using either the foods or the performance supplements. The best ingredients made for a dog well being, not for owner's. So many brands play this marketing game that dogs need to eat like people and its wrong.

Dr. Tim's is right up there and the deal on Petflow is awesome.

It is as simple as that. When I buy dog food I want to know if the nutritionist has a demonstrated knowledge of what a dog needs and how to make food. Champion has none of that, plus I doubt the company has a testing kennel or an in-house nutritionist.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

WasChampionFan said:


> Well you are not feeding a bad food, so relax. Champion is very slick about using this "regional Canadian ingredient" nonsense but the truth is most of the protein in the food comes from the same sources that other pet food companies use, particularly the poultry meals which come from the US not Canada. You don't see that on the video do you? The Orijen White Paper is pure plagiarism, no primary research just a marketing trick with quotes taken out of context. When the company was sold, did it even have the courtesy to let its customers know? No, in fact, the old CEO & owner is still listed on the Acana website. The company markets the food as 70/30 right? Well that is very misleading because that 70% is mostly water. That slurry you see in the buckets is just a bunch of chicken necks and backs ground with even extra water. It is total BS. That fresh meat doesn't add to a hill of beans when it comes to protein content. The protein comes from a bunch of average plants in the southern US.
> 
> It is just another food nothing more and nothing less. This Lincoln poster sounds like an insider in some way. Why would anyone just post that silly video.
> 
> ...



Have you read any of Lincoln's other posts about Link? This dog was a raw feed dog that could no longer eat it for some reason- Immune problems I think (could be wrong). I would do my research before you say they are an insider. Many people post silly videos few other people want to see but guess what you don't have to watch them.

I am curious as to where you got your research from.

Every pet food company tests their formulas on dogs. Just saying.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Research about what? The points I made about Champion? These are all well known at this point.

Be more specific.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

WasChampionFan said:


> Research about what? The points I made about Champion? These are all well known at this point.
> 
> Be more specific.


Yes your champion points.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

MikaTallulah said:


> Yes your champion points.


The company was sold to Bedford Capital in 2011. Frank Burdzy was put in by the new owner as the CEO. Prior to that he sold propane gas and fertilzer. There was never an announcement by the company. What are they trying to hide?

The problems with plant are well known and all over the internet. The town wants the plant out.

Do a search under The Cats Mother. She is a woman in Australia that lost a bunch of cats after the problem in Australia and she unwound the whole mess. She found that most of the protein comes from Griffin Industries a renderer in Alabama. I knew the company's claims were false before that because there isn't one plant in Canada that can produce that grade of chicken meal.

What I said is all true, and it is easy to verify. I can understand why people have a hard time accepting the truth because after you spend that much money on food you get defensive, its just human nature.

Also, Google "problems with Orijen" and see how many hits you get. Hundreds and hundreds of people complaining.


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## artbuc (Apr 12, 2009)

WasChampionFan said:


> Well you are not feeding a bad food, so relax.... The plant is a dump by the way, there are plenty of articles about the smells coming out of there and how the town feels about it.


I'm relaxed - just trying to get some facts. How does Champion's facility compare with Annamaet's contract supplier's? You call the Champion plant a dump. Can you be more specific? Regarding smell, how does the smell coming from a dog food plant translate into food quality? Have you smelled Annamaet's contract facility? I used to live in Memphis and when you drove by the Purina plant you started looking for a barf bag. Have you ever seen a hotdog plant? If you ever have the pleasure of touring one, make sure you have your anti-nausea pills with you.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

artbuc said:


> I'm relaxed - just trying to get some facts. How does Champion's facility compare with Annamaet's contract supplier's? You call the Champion plant a dump. Can you be more specific? Regarding smell, how does the smell coming from a dog food plant translate into food quality? Have you smelled Annamaet's contract facility? I used to live in Memphis and when you drove by the Purina plant you started looking for a barf bag. Have you ever seen a hotdog plant? If you ever have the pleasure of touring one, make sure you have your anti-nausea pills with you.


Annamaet buys ingredients from smaller and better suppliers. It is one of the few foods that buys antibiotic free chicken and the lowest ash available.

Annamaet is made at Ohio Pet Foods along with a handful of other really good foods. They are almost made by hand relatively speaking. It is one of the best pet food plants in the world in terms of quality and consistency. 

I have to credit Champion for the reputation is has created for itself but it is nothing but marketing, thanks to these forums mostly. 

Art, go by the expertise of the company, not the marketing.

Lifelong involvement with dogs
• Graduate of The Ohio State University
• Graduate work at University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine
• President of Annamaet Petfoods
• Currently maintains a kennel of 25 racing sled dogs.
• 2006 8-Dog & 10-Dog ISDRA Gold Medalist
• 2008 8-Dog North American Champion
• 2009 Bronze Medal IFSS World Championship
• Vice Chairman of the International Sled Dog Racing Association

Downey, R.L., Kronfeld, D.S. and Banta, C.A. "Diet of Beagles Affects Stamina." Journal American Animal 
Hospital Association, Vol. 16 (1980), pp. 273 - 7.
• Kronfeld, D.S., Downey, R.L., "Nutritional Strategies for Stamina in Dogs and Horses." Proceedings, Nutrition 
Society Australia, Vol. 6 (1981), pp. 21 - 9.
• Kronfeld, D.S., Atkins, T.O., and Downey, R.L., "Nutrition, Anaerobic and Aerobic Exercise, and Stress." 
Nutrition of the Dog and Cat, Ed. Burger, I.H., Rivers, J. P. W. New York: Cambridge University Press, 1989, 
pp. 133 - 45.
• Kronfeld, D.S., Downey, R.L., and Banta, C.A. "Stamina of Beagles is Influenced by Diet." Proceedings, 
American College Veterinary Internal Medicine, Seattle (1979), p. 105.
• Downey, R.L. "Feeding for Winning." Hounds and Hunting Vol. 76 (1979), pp. 32 - 36.
• Downey, R.L. "Musher (With a Difference!) With Leatha Braden." Siberian World, Vol. 3 (1979), pp. 3 - 8.
• Downey, R.L. "Heat Stress in Dogs." Howl Magazine.

Does anyone at Champion have these credentials? NO


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## Laurie (Sep 20, 2009)

If you do enough "googling", you will find pros and cons for almost every brand of dog food out there!!! I have been feeding my guys Orijen (Regional Red) for almost 3 years now. I have not had any issues with it. My guys have great teeth, soft, shiny coats, small (and infrequent poos) and no gas. I am not willing to continue changing my dogs' diet because of some bad reviews. There is also alot of support for Orijen/Acana. All dogs are not alike: some will do well on one food, some will not. 

It has been said numerous times before, the best food for your dog is the food he does well on. For us, that is Orijen.........


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## Hearts of Gold (Dec 18, 2010)

We have 2 dogs and 2 cats currently eating Champion food products. The dogs eat Acana and the cats eat Orijen. 

The animals coats tell the story for me! Their coats are Amazing!!!

When we are out and about with our dogs, the one comment that is a consistent theme is the lovely condition of their coats!

I have no plans on changing their food!


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

WasChampionFan said:


> Well you are not feeding a bad food, so relax. Champion is very slick about using this "regional Canadian ingredient" nonsense but the truth is most of the protein in the food comes from the same sources that other pet food companies use, particularly the poultry meals which come from the US not Canada. You don't see that on the video do you? The Orijen White Paper is pure plagiarism, no primary research just a marketing trick with quotes taken out of context. When the company was sold, did it even have the courtesy to let its customers know? No, in fact, the old CEO & owner is still listed on the Acana website. I think if they actually told customers that the new owners and CEO don't have any pet food experience and spent their careers making and selling chemicals, people would be angry. They hid the whole thing.
> 
> The company markets the food as 70/30 right? Well that is very misleading because that 70% is mostly water. That slurry you see in the buckets is just a bunch of chicken necks and backs ground with even extra water. It is total BS. That fresh meat doesn't add to a hill of beans when it comes to protein content. The protein comes from a bunch of average plants in the southern US.
> 
> ...


LOL I tip my hat off to ya. I am by far an insider for this company. I have been a member on this board since November 2011, have about 1000 posts and this I believe is my first thread ever regarding Champion pet Foods. I think im going to take some points from this thread and email Champion. 

Sorry, but lying on the pet food bag is illegal. Canada has some of the best quality control standards and also Purina was one of those brands effected by the 2007 recalls that killed my 7 month old puppy. 

I prefer to feed as close to biologically appropriate as possible and all Purina is, is a bag of grains (Sorry to those who feed it). It worked well for my dog while he was having stomach issues....but now im moving to something better. 

I dont care credentials behind someone. When I was feeding a raw diet I had zero credentials...ZERO...but I still managed to put together one heck of a diet to keep my dog healthy. If Purina is as good as you rant and rave about feed it yourself.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Lincoln_16 said:


> LOL I tip my hat off to ya. I am by far an insider for this company. I have been a member on this board since November 2011, have about 1000 posts and this I believe is my first thread ever regarding Champion pet Foods. I think im going to take some points from this thread and email Champion.
> 
> Sorry, but lying on the pet food bag is illegal. Canada has some of the best quality control standards and also Purina was one of those brands effected by the 2007 recalls that killed my 7 month old puppy.
> 
> ...


Hear hear. I agree with you.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I will be email Champion Pet foods at some point today. They cannot say theres 70% meat in the bag if theres only 30%. That would be false label claims and would be considered illegal in Canada and I believe the US


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I thought it meant that 70 % of the protein is from meat sources. It certainly can't mean that 70% of the bag is chicken, etc.... that would be prohibitively expensive.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Here's a pretty good explanation....Myths & Misconceptions of dog food see the Q&A about meat... although the other questions are very informative too.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Lincoln_16 said:


> I will be email Champion Pet foods at some point today. They cannot say theres 70% meat in the bag if theres only 30%. That would be false label claims and would be considered illegal in Canada and I believe the US


Yes they can it is perfectly legal. 

The protein level is 38% but the trick is that the pre-cooking weight is 80% meat which is about 70-80% water before even more water is added. I made an error before, the original formula was 70/30, the updated formula is 80/20, but it is the same issue. So once you adjust for the water, the meat doesn't add much except to the cost.

There is a letter on the internet from a woman named Bonnie at Champion where she admits the chicken meal comes from the US. The Cats Mother can give you all the information you need. She even got documents under the Freedom of Information Act.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I dont really care about the cats mother. Also, I am not planning on changing my dogs food. Im going to pull word for word some parts of your replies and email them off to the company. See what they have to say. IMO any company who was NOT involved in the 2007 recalls has a point in my books.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Lincoln_16 said:


> I dont really care about the cats mother. Also, I am not planning on changing my dogs food. Im going to pull word for word some parts of your replies and email them off to the company. See what they have to say. IMO any company who was NOT involved in the 2007 recalls has a point in my books.


_Derek, 

Chicken meal is a good example. Although there are producers of chicken meal in Canada, none are capable of producing from chickens passed fit for human consumption and as such no Canadian chicken meal meets the European Union Pet Food Regulation 1774. At present, Canadian chicken meal is made with spent hens (from egg laying operations) as well as chickens that have died, but are not processed in a federally inspected facility, or were not passed as ‘fit for human consumption’ by the Government of Canada. 

So, while our focus is “fresh and regional” our primary objective is always to achieve the highest standard in nutrition, palatability and food safety. Until chicken meal from human grade chickens is available in Canada, Champion will source its chicken meal from one of 2 USA chicken processors, whose chickens and facility are USDA certified, and who have the appropriate European Union qualifications (EU 1774).

ORIJEN is made with special 'low ash' chicken meal. This ingredient is prepared by removing the bones before cooking, which creates a very high protein and low ash ingredient. The result is a moderated amount of calcium and phosphorus in the final ORIJEN kibble. There are definitely different qualities of meat meals out there, just as there are many different grades of meat for you to choose from at your local grocers. If you start with ingredients that are mostly muscle meat (as is the case with our meat meals), this results in a quality meal that is very high in protein. most of the content of our meals will be muscle meat.

Best Regards,

Bonnie
Customer Care
Champion Petfoods LP
p 780.939.6888
f 780.939.6858
_

Here is the letter from Champion. I would hardly call USA Chicken Meal "a regional Canadian ingredient".

I have zero tolerance for garbage like this. If they were upfront about it well that is a different story. You will find no reference to this important ingredient anywhere on the bag or website. This letter was written to someone on another forum. The grade of chicken meal is the same that goes into Pro Pac which costs 1/3rd of what Orijen costs.

And this is who runs the company now:

http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/officerProfile?symbol=MCB.TO&officerId=698481


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I dont feed the chicken formula so therefore that letter is irrelevant to me. Mine is allergic to chicken. I also do not care where the Lamb in my dogs food is sourced from (whether its from Canada, US or NZ)...as long as its not a "by product". I still plan to draft that letter to Champion when I have a couple hours to myself tonight and can concentrate. 

Purina just throws a bunch of grains into a bag and calls it healthy. Also Purina was involved in the 2007 recalls where Champion was not.


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## WasChampionFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Lincoln_16 said:


> I dont feed the chicken formula so therefore that letter is irrelevant to me. Mine is allergic to chicken. I also do not care where the Lamb in my dogs food is sourced from (whether its from Canada, US or NZ)...as long as its not a "by product". I still plan to draft that letter to Champion when I have a couple hours to myself tonight and can concentrate.
> 
> Purina just throws a bunch of grains into a bag and calls it healthy. Also Purina was involved in the 2007 recalls where Champion was not.


Champion Petfoods and fish "waste" (by-products)? - YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community

ask about the "fresh never frozen fish from pristine lakes"


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

WasChampionFan said:


> Champion Petfoods and fish "waste" (by-products)? - YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community
> 
> ask about the "fresh never frozen fish from pristine lakes"


I think we get the message you hate Champion. We may or may not like the food you are feeding but no one is attacking your choices. 

Link's mom clearly is taking what you said to heart and is continuing to research the product. 

Please stop now and/or start your own thread about the horrors of Champion to educate others. I happen to know the stories of Lincoln and his food issues so if she has found something that works for both her and Link back off.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

OP- How is Lincoln doing today? Still okay with the food I hope.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

MikaTallulah said:


> I think we get the message you hate Champion. We may or may not like the food you are feeding but no one is attacking your choices.
> 
> Link's mom clearly is taking what you said to heart and is continuing to research the product.
> 
> Please stop now and/or start your own thread about the horrors of Champion to educate others. I happen to know the stories of Lincoln and his food issues so if she has found something that works for both her and Link back off.


Thanks MikaTallulah. This user has virtually no idea what I have been through with my dog. I may be researching the product more but that doesnt mean I will be taking him off it. It takes a lot to get me to stop feeding a certain brand and the 2007 recall was enough for me to dislike Purina. Especially after they claim our family members deserve the best food there is then when lawsuits were launched because they refused to pay the families who lost their "family member" to Purina products from the recall they used the "Oh a dog is just property" excuse to get out of it. Talk about being two faced


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

MikaTallulah said:


> OP- How is Lincoln doing today? Still okay with the food I hope.


Yes! His poops are solid, small and come out in pellets. Also 1/3 the size of Purina poos

ETA- About false marketing... Purina does its fair share of it. When I called them last year about their "By Products" they told me they ONLY used livers, hearts, kidneys, gizzards etc. Thats a sack of poo. If they were so proud to say "Chicken By Product" they would label it as Chicken Livers, Chicken Hearts, Chicken Kidneys but doing so would mean lying on the bag. Their by products contain beak, heads, intestines and all the other inedibles it just so happens livers, kidneys and hearts are considered a by product as well. Science Diet tried to feed me this bull poo to


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Lincoln_16 said:


> Yes! His poops are solid, small and come out in pellets. Also 1/3 the size of Purina poos
> 
> ETA- About false marketing... Purina does its fair share of it. When I called them last year about their "By Products" they told me they ONLY used livers, hearts, kidneys, gizzards etc. Thats a sack of poo. If they were so proud to say "Chicken By Product" they would label it as Chicken Livers, Chicken Hearts, Chicken Kidneys but doing so would mean lying on the bag. Their by products contain beak, heads, intestines and all the other inedibles it just so happens livers, kidneys and hearts are considered a by product as well. Science Diet tried to feed me this bull poo to


Lincoln- Did you see my post about the Waggin Train (aka Purina) and Walmart lawsuit? Maybe justice will start to be served.

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...wsuit-filed-against-waggin-train-walmart.html


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

I did see that but I was trying to replace the brain cells I lost when I was re reading this thread to pluck out questions to place in my email to Champion Pet Foods. 

Ill go over and read your thread now


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Lincoln_16 said:


> I did see that but I was trying to replace the brain cells I lost when I was re reading this thread to pluck out questions to place in my email to Champion Pet Foods.
> 
> Ill go over and read your thread now


LOL. 

I just seemed like they were looking for a fight where one was not needed. I think after a certain point if can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

MikaTallulah said:


> LOL.
> 
> I just seemed like they were looking for a fight where one was not needed. I think after a certain point if can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all.


: I thought you might like my reply. I plan to email Champion still, but I am starting to think after reading through this users history he/she seems to post mostly about recommending the food he/she feeds (Or IMO works for) not on this forum but others as well


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## artbuc (Apr 12, 2009)

I don't fault any company for their marketing expertise. Just because they present themselves in the best possible manner, it doesn't necessarily mean they are frauds or produce an inferior product. For example, Annamaet's website refers to their manufacturing plant as "our" no less than 3 times. I would say most people would assume Annamaet owns/operates their own manufacturing plant. I'm sure Annamaet's contract supplier is more than adequate, but why doesn't Annamaet's website extol the virtues of their contract supplier? They don't because the term "contract supplier" has a negative connotation. I believe Annamaet's website is misleading at best but I don't jump to the conclusion they make bad dog food. 

I know a little bit about manufacturing processes and quality control. Although I have not researched this issue extensively, I do not believe the Australian irradiation incident is a smoking gun indictment of Champion's quality and quality control. Finally, some of the best (in terms of high quality products) business leaders I have seen are ones who came into the business unbiased without product specific expertise.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Hope Lincoln continues to do well on the Acana. 
I have fed my dogs both Orijen and Acana over the last four years and I am very happy with it, my dogs do great on it. Prior to switching to Champion food diets my dogs suffered terribly with chronic ear and urinary tract infections, since switching, their vet visits have been anual checkups - nothing else in 4 years - that tells me that Champion foods is putting out a good dog food that works for my dogs (we now have 6 dogs all on Acana). 

No matter what it is - there will be those that 'swear BY it' and those that 'swear AT it', so you have to decide for yourself if it is, 'right' for you.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

artbuc said:


> I don't fault any company for their marketing expertise. Just because they present themselves in the best possible manner, it doesn't necessarily mean they are frauds or produce an inferior product. For example, Annamaet's website refers to their manufacturing plant as "our" no less than 3 times. I would say most people would assume Annamaet owns/operates their own manufacturing plant. I'm sure Annamaet's contract supplier is more than adequate, but why doesn't Annamaet's website extol the virtues of their contract supplier? They don't because the term "contract supplier" has a negative connotation. I believe Annamaet's website is misleading at best but I don't jump to the conclusion they make bad dog food.
> 
> I know a little bit about manufacturing processes and quality control. Although I have not researched this issue extensively, I do not believe the Australian irradiation incident is a smoking gun indictment of Champion's quality and quality control. Finally, some of the best (in terms of high quality products) business leaders I have seen are ones who came into the business unbiased without product specific expertise.


After reading into this a bit further I noticed that the reason why those pets got ill was because Australia has a law where all imported pet food has to be irradiated. This isnt Champion Pet Foods fault at all. Is anyone is responsible for the pets that died it would be the Australian Government. Champion pet Foods refuses to sell anymore food to Australia because of their irradiation laws on imported pet foods. Thumbs up for Champion because Purina would still sell to them and if im not mistaken, Purina does sell to Australia. 

Those emails that were provided here by waschampionfan were not sourced. For all we know some John Doe typed it up himself. Right on their website it says their chicken is sourced from Canada...


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Okay I drafted up an email and sent it off


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

Agreed. I get that you have your opinions on dog food brands, but that really isn't relevant to Lincoln whose dog has a lot of issues with food. If she found something that works, thats great. Every food has its pros and cons.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

vcm5 said:


> Agreed. I get that you have your opinions on dog food brands, but that really isn't relevant to Lincoln whose dog has a lot of issues with food. If she found something that works, thats great. Every food has its pros and cons.


Thanks!, This user has no idea what ive been through with my dog. I almost forgot that we must all be naive imbeciles and that waschampionfan knows all. Or should I say Sable123, Tomtommy....as per the other forums your on..well...were on anyway until you got banned for being a corporate shill 
.


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## artbuc (Apr 12, 2009)

Lincoln_16 said:


> After reading into this a bit further I noticed that the reason why those pets got ill was because Australia has a law where all imported pet food has to be irradiated. This isnt Champion Pet Foods fault at all. Is anyone is responsible for the pets that died it would be the Australian Government. Champion pet Foods refuses to sell anymore food to Australia because of their irradiation laws on imported pet foods. Thumbs up for Champion because Purina would still sell to them and if im not mistaken, Purina does sell to Australia.
> 
> Those emails that were provided here by waschampionfan were not sourced. For all we know some John Doe typed it up himself. Right on their website it says their chicken is sourced from Canada...


Exactly. The Australian govt required irradiation and specified how much was required and assured all that this dose would not be harmful to pets. I believe the Champion irradiation syndrome is an urban legend. Did pets die? Yes. Did they die from irradiation? Not sure anyone knows. Did they die specifically as a result of a unique effect of irradiation on Champion food? Highly unlikely. 

PS. From reading the local newpaper reports, I infer that Morrinsville wants the smell to go away. That is far different from the claim that the town wants Champion to go away.


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

When you irradiate food you are putting them under Gamma rays IE radiation. At ANY dose thats something I dont wanna screw with. Im willing to bet the radiation is what killed those pets not the food itself. The fact Champion pet foods now refuses to import to Australia says a lot to me. They dont want to be responsible for radiation killing pets from imported foods because Australia feels the need to "sanitize" everything before it comes in. I think they use one dose and thats it. While a dose is small enough humans can handle it (even though I will still run far from it) it may not be small enough for a pet to tolerate. Especially a cat...

If anyone is to blame its Australia. The deaths were confined to that country


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## Fantapls (Apr 24, 2012)

Lincoln_16 said:


> Thanks!, This user has no idea what ive been through with my dog. I almost forgot that we must all be naive imbeciles and that waschampionfan knows all. Or should I say Sable123, Tomtommy....as per the other forums your on..well...were on anyway until you got banned for being a corporate shill
> .


Well well well now. What have we got here? Miss "Lincoln_16" or shall we say K9Capture16, aka K9Capture_16, aka CanineWonder, aka Malinois16, aka Malinois_16, aka Maliraptor2009, aka Maligator, Maligator88, aka Megamaligator, aka King, aka Lincoln, aka Ruby, aka Zeelie, aka Autumn, aka Autumn M, aka Chantelle, aka ChantelleJ....what shall it be? I dare anybody just to google any of those names and take a look at the number of forums she's been banned from. Anywhere from lying profusely about everything in her existence, to just being plain ol' nasty. Please everybody, take what she says with a very large grain of salt. 

Here is one of the MANY lovely forum's she's already been banned from (that's why I'm pretty sure she's on the Golden forum..not many Shepherd ones she's not banned from...)Just scroll down a bit. 

Need opinions/advice - Page 2 - DogForum.net | Dog Forums and Community


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

There are many reasons why people are banned from forums. Also, over half those names arent even me!!!

You ONLY came onto this forum (probably under the suggestion of waschampionfan) to post this. You, are the one who needs a life. Ive moved on from your forum and the other forums and came to a forum where they arent judgmental. You get into arguments and move on. 

I know exactly who you are  I also love how you wait until all the mods/admin have gone to bed before you post this. There are always two sides to every story and not everything read on the internet is true


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## Rob's GRs (Feb 25, 2007)

To all;

If you do not agree with someone or do not like who they are, there is no need to be rude about it. Statements of disagreements can be made with out getting rude or personal.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

The rudeness expressed lately is just beyond me. The GRF I know and love is supportive, accepting, and generous. There are several threads in the last few days that are anything but, and I am saddened and mad! For many of us that have been here for a while, this is a family.... a community bonded together with our dogs. 

For a first post from a newbie ( is this really a newbie????) to be so rude and to actually put someone's Email out there is really unacceptable to me. I really don't want GRF to go the way of so many other forums where this is accepable. Sad..... just sad.


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## Rob's GRs (Feb 25, 2007)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> The rudeness expressed lately is just beyond me. The GRF I know and love is supportive, accepting, and generous. There are several threads in the last few days that are anything but, and I am saddened and mad! For many of us that have been here for a while, this is a family.... a community bonded together with our dogs.
> 
> For a first post from a newbie ( is this really a newbie????) to be so rude and to actually put someone's Email out there is really unacceptable to me. I really don't want GRF to go the way of so many other forums where this is accepable. Sad..... just sad.


 
We usually do not take things pubically however the rudeness in the last few days on this board has not gone unnoticed. We (the Mod team) are reviewing if more needs to be done about this issue. It is a shame that we even have to do this. Hopefully this issue will not continue on this board........


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## A1Malinois (Oct 28, 2011)

Im bothered by the fact they have chosen to leave this post up considering its nature and intent. Its pretty obvious this member was out for a personal attack even if they have to use lies and half truths. Posts of this nature have been totally removed before....


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

This is really sad, I can't believe this thread has turned out like this - it started about an update to what dog food you are switching to! I think that, no matter what Lincoln_16 has done in the past or on other forums, she wasn't asking for any of this trouble and in this thread all she did was post an update about her dogs food. Why the personal attacks?


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## Rob's GRs (Feb 25, 2007)

I think we are going to close this thread and hope that we can all start fresh today..........


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