# Yearly vaccinations or Titers?



## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

It's about time to have Sipsy's boosters and looking into Titers testing as an alternative. 
Do any of you do this? Cost? How often to you have to retest or do you need to retest?
I've found a few articles and know it's been around for a while but not finding to much "user" information to learn from.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Call your Vet Clinic, they will be able to tell you what they charge for Titers, how often to test, etc.

Vet fees vary throughout the US, that's why I'd call your Clinic. In my area, Titers run between $150-$200.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

I will be checking with a couple of clinics to compare cost, thanks. We pump our pups with so much stuff these days, heartworm preventative and flea/tick as well as worm medications. I just hate to give her more than is needed.

Breaking away from the tradition of yearly boosters is a little frightening as I want my pup to be protected. Just wondering if anyone else does this and if they feel comfortable taking this path.

I checked with her step breeder and she does boosters and tells me our breeder does as well. Considering the breeder included the "don't over vaccinate" sheet in the puppy packet seemed a little hypocritical and just not sure which way is the best route.

Guess I'm looking for a little direction more than concern for cost. If anyone out there does Titers vs. yearly booster I would love to share your experience.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I definitely don't recommend yearly vaccines. Puppy shots, one year, and then just every 3 years is standard protocol most places now. 

As for titers, you'll save a ton of money if you send them out yourself rather than having vet do them in house (and likely get more accurate results). 
Send to Dr. Schultz (considered a leader in vaccination and titer studies) with the University of Wisconsin for only $25. https://www.vetmed.wisc.edu/lab/schultz/titer-testing-service/


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

I agree with Jodie. I haven't done annual vaccinations in at least a decade. If you are truly worried, titer. The vets I know no longer give annual boosters.


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## Yaichi's Mom (Jul 21, 2012)

puddles everywhere said:


> It's about time to have Sipsy's boosters and looking into Titers testing as an alternative.
> Do any of you do this? Cost? How often to you have to retest or do you need to retest?
> I've found a few articles and know it's been around for a while but not finding to much "user" information to learn from.


You ask a really great question...thank you!! 

After I lost my Yaichi to hemangiosarcoma and began to read about the very high incidence of cancer in GRs, I decided I was going to do everything I could when Brisby came into my life, to attempt to stack as many odds in her favour of escaping the dreaded disease that is felling so many of our dogs. As a result, I read, read, interviewed and changed DVMs. We are fortunate to have a holistic and a homepathic vet ( 2 ), both with over 20 years experience in veterinary medicine. Both of our DVMs feel that over-vaccination, diet, over-medication, etc+ is contributory to many of the disease, including cancer that they are seeing on a regular basis in the last decade+. 

As a result, I just had the DAP titer run for Brisby as she was "due" for her 3 year booster vaccinations. Our vet sent it out to Cornell via IDEXX.
The results showed Brisby has strong immunity in all three areas, her last vaccinations given at the age of one year ( she is now 4 1/2). The cost in the Greater Toronto area is likely higher than in the US. I paid $209.00 for the DAP titer.

I also just had the rabies titer run ( again sent to Cornell). This was more expensive. I paid $340.00 for the rabies titer which included the blood draw fee. I don't have the results yet, however they should be back anytime now.

Brisby's vets align completely with Dr Ronald Schultz work regarding immunity. Her thoughts are that we may run another set of titers in 3 - 4 years time or we may not, as once immunity is established, re vaccination does not boost immunity, but rather "messes" with a dog's immune system.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

My vet, and most vets around here, vaccinate on a three year schedule. (I wouldn't use a vet that didn't.) My dogs have always been on a 3 year vaccination schedule, once they have received their standard puppy vaccinations they only get the core vaccines - rabies, distemper, parvovirus, and parainfluenza, and have never done titer testing in between. Have followed this schedule with multiple dogs, (we lost our two seniors at 14 1/2 years), have never run into any problems with doing it that way, feel confident that the three year schedule it is very safe for my dogs.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

It really depends on what shots you are talking about. And age of the dog. 

You do have to do the 1 year boosters. It completes the series of the shots, I believe. Make sure you're not confusing that with the regular scheduled shots for adult dogs.

After that things get sorted out with your vet. What is required by law (rabies)... and what is your comfort zone. 

My guys get the distemper mix shot every 3 years. 

And they get rabies every 3 years.

The shots are staggered by a year so they are NEVER getting both rabies and distemper the same year. 

I do make sure my guys go in for Lepto shots every year. Heard somewhere that it stays in their system for about 9 months. So I push as late into spring as possible, but we DO do it every year.

***I give heartworm preventatives only about 6 months out of the year. And that's usually something like Sentinel which worms them for as much possible. Heartguard if I have to do something about ticks a certain month or two. I ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT put flea/tick stuff on my dog every month of the year. Gosh forbid putting collars on my dogs like some people do.  As long as there isn't a flea or tick problem, I will not treat for one.

ETA.... I saw a guy carrying a 16 year old GSP pointer in for vaccinations. And for that matter, our dogs who almost made it to 13 and 14 both lived at a time when... yeah, they did get annual vaccinations. And this included the one dog who'd had issues with the rabies vax back then (it caused swelling and pain) and needed pre-treatment to prevent a reaction. 

Flip side of that is I know of somebody who cut out all vaccinations fairly early (after the puppy stuff before 16 weeks), fed raw, and did a lot of other stuff.... and she had a dog die early (age 7). 

Somebody looking to prove that annual vaccinations are harmless - could use the example of my long lived dogs.

Somebody looking to prove that titers and raw food are HARMFUL could point to the dog who died early.

I'm just saying.


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## Summertime15 (May 15, 2015)

Having lost my first 2 Goldens to cancer at a young age (in the days when yearly boosters were the norm), I decided I wanted to do everything possible to limit the risks of over-vaccination in my subsequent Goldens. So for the next 2 Goldens, I only did titers after their series of 3 puppy shots for parvo/distemper. Actually, Golden #3 did get a one-year booster, while Golden #4 did not have any boosters after the age of 16 weeks. In both cases I did yearly titers, which showed good protection for the rest of their lives. One lived to almost age 13 and the other recently died at age 12. For my current 2 young Goldens, I plan to do no boosters after the age of 16 weeks, although I will likely titer every couple of years. I also do not do any of the non-core vaccines. So the only vaccine they get is rabies as required by law (every 3 years in my state).


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## Yaichi's Mom (Jul 21, 2012)

Summertime15 said:


> Having lost my first 2 Goldens to cancer at a young age (in the days when yearly boosters were the norm), I decided I wanted to do everything possible to limit the risks of over-vaccination in my subsequent Goldens. So for the next 2 Goldens, I only did titers after their series of 3 puppy shots for parvo/distemper. Actually, Golden #3 did get a one-year booster, while Golden #4 did not have any boosters after the age of 16 weeks. In both cases I did yearly titers, which showed good protection for the rest of their lives. One lived to almost age 13 and the other recently died at age 12. For my current 2 young Goldens, I plan to do no boosters after the age of 16 weeks, although I will likely titer every couple of years. I also do not do any of the non-core vaccines. So the only vaccine they get is rabies as required by law (every 3 years in my state).


I totally understand your rationale Summertime which echoes mine after I lost my Yaichi. I am so sorry to read that you have lost 2 of your precious Goldens to cancer.

I decided to take the risk with the rabies titer, even though vaccination is required here by law as well. All I am concerned about is that Brisby carries a strong immunity to rabies and will deal with any fine and a forced rabies vaccination should that ever be enforced by incident, which is very unlikely.

I also have not done any non core vaccines ( lepto, bortadella, lyme etc) and won't.

Here area a few detailed articles for those interested: 

The Leptospirosis Vaccine: Why It Doesn't Work - Dogs Naturally Magazine

[Updated] Three Critical Problems With The Kennel Cough Vaccine (and what you need to do about them) - Dogs Naturally Magazine

Lyme Disease And Lyme Vaccine Disease - Dogs Naturally Magazine


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## danoon58 (Jul 1, 2015)

We have made the move to titers. Both our 8 year old corgi mix and Seamus our golden have been titered.

I made the decision to titer Seamus at 1 year rather than have boosters done. Our vet cautioned me that we might still need to do vaccinations if the titers didn't come back strong enough. He had strong immunity for both parvo and distemper so we did not booster. He did have to get a rabies vaccination as required by law but won't need one for 3 years now.

If I remember right they cost approximately $100-$125 each for parvo and distemper. We will repeat the titers in 3 years (what the vet is most comfortable with). 

The reason I did titers is that I feel it was something that I could easily do that would most possibly help Seamus (and Sonny) live longer, healthier lives. 

When we add another puppy to the family (not in the near future) we will do individual vaccinations rather than the combo that the vets tend to do.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Yaichi's Mom I'm so sorry for your loss and thanks for the articles. I will be sure and read through them tonight.

TX has been under a Rabies quarantine for many years so Rabies was required every year but the combo shot (distemper, etc. ) was every 3 yrs. This will be Sipsy's 1st adult shots, age 14 months so was wanting to see if there were alternatives. I'll be checking with a couple of clinics to see what is offered & compare to sending it off myself. 

Thanks for all the info. and don't want to pump my pup up with stuff she doesn't need but certainly don't want to make her susceptible to getting something that could have been avoided either.

It's really hard to not follow the usual path but sounds like this is something to consider.


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## Ffcmm (May 4, 2016)

I went the titer test route for Lily's 1st year booster vaccines too, and all her results for her core vaccines were strong. I got her vaccinated against Lepto too. The titer test in my country was just USD $35. Singapore is rabies free, so the rabies shot isn't required.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

It seems there is a debate among the vet community as to what level of protection is considered acceptable to insure your pup is safe. So until they decide the recommendation from both clinics I called was to vaccinate. 
I called a clinic that was local, small town vet & a clinic in a larger town. Neither feels it is a safe practice but then they are the ones making money off the shots!?
I want what is best for Sipsy but bucking the system doesn't seem to be the way to go.


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## Yaichi's Mom (Jul 21, 2012)

puddles everywhere said:


> It seems there is a debate among the vet community as to what level of protection is considered acceptable to insure your pup is safe. So until they decide the recommendation from both clinics I called was to vaccinate.
> I called a clinic that was local, small town vet & a clinic in a larger town. Neither feels it is a safe practice but then they are the ones making money off the shots!?
> I want what is best for Sipsy but bucking the system doesn't seem to be the way to go.


Yes, I am sure that there is a great debate in the veterinary community regarding titers.

I will just share what Brisby's titer results look like so that you and everyone who has never had a titer run, can see what the test results look like. They are pretty specific regarding the measurable antibody levels along with recommendations of when re-vaccination may need to be considered.

Also interesting to note that veterinarians do titers for themselves for immunity to rabies. 

https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/R...xposure-vaccination-titers-veterinarians.aspx
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CANINE DISTEMPER VIRUS - SN 32 

Test performed at the Cornell University Veterinary Diagnostics Lab Cornell University Animal Health Diagnostic Center (Ithaca, NY): 

The virus neutralization antibody titer is the reciprocal of the highest dilution of serum that neutralizes the infectivity of the virus (endpoint dilution of 1:32 = antibody titer of 32). Titers are in units of antibody and as such all values reported without modifiers contain that specified amount of antibody in the sample. 

Values with a < (less than symbol) indicate no detectable antibody at the minimum readable dilution (<8 = no detectable antibody at a 1:8 dilution). 

An antibody titer can result from vaccination, infection, or passive maternal transfer. Most SN tests start at the minimum serum dilution of 1:4 (final dilution of 1:8) unless regulatory requirements dictate otherwise. For CDV, most titers fall in the range of 32-1024. 

Animals with titers below 32 should be assessed for a booster vaccination. 

CANINE PARVOVIRUS - HI 320 

Test performed at the Cornell University Veterinary Diagnostics Lab Cornell University Animal Health Diagnostic Center (Ithaca, NY): 

The hemagglutination inhibition antibody titer is the reciprocal of the highest dilution of serum that prevents the agglutination of red blood cells by parvovirus (endpoint dilution of 1:160 = antibody titer of 160). Titers are in units of antibody and as such all values reported without modifiers contain that specified amount of antibody in the sample. 

Values with a < (less than symbol) indicate no detectable antibody at the minimum readable dilution (<20 = no detectable antibody at a 1:20 dilution). 

An antibody titer can result from vaccination, infection, or passive maternal transfer. For CPV, most titers fall in the range 80-2560. 

Animals with titers below 80 should be assessed for a booster vaccination. 

CANINE ADENOVIRUS - SN 128 

Test performed at the Cornell University Veterinary Diagnostics Lab Cornell University Animal Health Diagnostic Center (Ithaca, NY): 

The virus neutralization antibody titer is the reciprocal of the highest dilution of serum that neutralizes the infectivity of the virus (endpoint dilution of 1:32 = antibody titer of 32). Titers are in units of antibody and as such all values reported without modifiers contain that specified amount of antibody in the sample. 

Values with a < (less than symbol) indicate no detectable antibody at the minimum readable dilution (<8 = no detectable antibody at a 1:8 dilution). 

An antibody titer can result from vaccination, infection, or passive maternal transfer. Most SN tests start at the minimum serum dilution of 1:4 (final dilution of 1:8) unless regulatory requirements dictate otherwise. For CAV, most titers fall in the range of 16-512. 

Animals with titers below 16 should be assessed for a booster vaccination


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

My Vet gives vaccinations every three years. 

In my State, Rabies can not be titered, it's required by law every three years after the first initial vaccination is given which last for one year.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Well it seems every vet I've contacted does YEARLY vaccinations for everything and no one does Titers. So much for new age thinking!


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## Yaichi's Mom (Jul 21, 2012)

puddles everywhere said:


> Well it seems every vet I've contacted does YEARLY vaccinations for everything and no one does Titers. So much for new age thinking!


I don't know where you are located however you may want to consider finding a holistic DVM:

https://www.ahvma.org/find-a-holistic-veterinarian/


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Thanks Yaichi's Mom I'm reading through the list. If you look on a map... where Louisiana and Arkansas meet, I'm just across the border in TX. It's a long way from nothing 

I'm taking on the system... I have been reading the Texas regulations on vaccinations and researching the county level. So far there is absolutely NOTHING that requires yearly shots. It states to follow the manufacture recommendations so if they purchase 3 yr vaccine then every 3 yrs is acceptable. 

So we are about to visit and ask to see the vaccine recommendations before doing anything.


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## Yaichi's Mom (Jul 21, 2012)

puddles everywhere said:


> Thanks Yaichi's Mom I'm reading through the list. If you look on a map... where Louisiana and Arkansas meet, I'm just across the border in TX. It's a long way from nothing
> 
> I'm taking on the system... I have been reading the Texas regulations on vaccinations and researching the county level. So far there is absolutely NOTHING that requires yearly shots. It states to follow the manufacture recommendations so if they purchase 3 yr vaccine then every 3 yrs is acceptable.
> 
> So we are about to visit and ask to see the vaccine recommendations before doing anything.


I wish you much luck in your quest if titering is the way you wish to go.

I am taking on the system too with the rabies titer. It is required every three years by law here, however as I have stated before I am willing to take my chances with any potential repercussions. 

I am hoping that the Rabies Challenge Fund as well as Dr John Robb DVM can make some great strides relative to the over-vaccination of our dogs and cats and the relevance of titer testing in lieu of unnecessary vaccines.


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## Yaichi's Mom (Jul 21, 2012)

Some of you who may be considering titer testing in lieu of "booster" vaccinations may find this of interest:

Titer Testing Your Dog: Are You Wasting Your Money? - Dogs Naturally Magazine


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

To my surprise the vet I use in town will send off sample for Titers. But... because this is her 1st adult shots wants to wait until next year. Tractor Supply does 3 yr Rabies so at least we can avoid the yearly on that, TX required this and won't accept Titers.
I asked the vet why everyone in town does yearly shots and his answer made me giggle. It seem around here people are not so good at keeping their dogs vaccinated and it's easier to monitor them if they are done yearly. So we are good until next spring but will be doing the Titers. Thanks for all the great information Yaichi's Mom!!


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## FosterGolden (Mar 10, 2014)

Loisiana said:


> I definitely don't recommend yearly vaccines. Puppy shots, one year, and then just every 3 years is standard protocol most places now.


This is my vet's protocol that I follow. I do occasionally have to add Bordatella because from time to time due to work travel I board outside of the home and they require that one annually. I thought about titers, but it doesn't seem to be something that is widely used or accepted around here yet.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

puddles everywhere said:


> I asked the vet why everyone in town does yearly shots and his answer made me giggle. It seem around here people are not so good at keeping their dogs vaccinated and it's easier to monitor them if they are done yearly.


It's the same here, all the vets are behind times and follow a yearly protocol. Thing is, besides the legally required rabies vaccine, you can do whatever you want with other vaccines. Even with a vet whose standard is to vaccinate every year, you should be able to tell them you only want to vaccinate every ________ years.


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## Goldens&Friesians (May 31, 2014)

Just jumping in here mainly to follow this thread! I've been researching vaccines for both my dogs and horses. Horses just got their yearly dentals and we usually have them vaccinated at the same time. This year all we did was the Coggins (which isn't a vaccine, its a blood test required to travel with your horse). Going to be looking into titers for my dog too.


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## Yaichi's Mom (Jul 21, 2012)

I think there are several factors at play when it comes to re-vaccination or titer testing.

A veterinary practice is a business which offers health services for profit. Many veterinary practices are franchises where treatment protocols must be adhered to by franchise standards ( Banfield is one large example of this) 

*snip*


> Many vets advise both puppies and kittens get their “core vaccines” at ages 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 10 weeks, 12 weeks, 14 weeks, and 16 weeks. Then, they get boosters at one year, and annually thereafter.
> 
> Doesn’t this sound extreme for an animal that averages from 10, 25 to 50 pounds?
> 
> ...


Pet Vaccinations

Veterinary schools and continuing accreditation post graduation is also heavily funded by pharmaceutical companies. 

Most if not all veterinarians care for the well being and health of their patients and seem to be doing what they have been taught to do relative to care.

Just as we do with our own health care, as guardians of our dogs and cats it is up to us to decide to do what we feel is in the best interest of health. 

Here is another good articel ( IMHO) for those interested:

Vaccinations | Unleashed


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Exactly, this is why I was surprised the local vet was willing... he seems to be very agreeable to go outside the normal. 

Different vaccines have different strengths. Everyone here uses a vaccine that needs to be redone every year. I can't expect the vet to purchase one vile of a 3 yr vaccine for just me.

Sadly the Rabies vaccine cost about $9. for one vile and you get about 6 shots out of the one vile. Guess this is why I get so frustrated when a vet wants to charge $25. for a shot and sends a tech in to give it. The whole process is a scam IMO but can't get the shots without a vet.

Tractor Supply has a mobile vet that does the shots, no appointments and charges only $10. for a 3 yr vaccine. TX will allow whatever the manufacture recommends. They don't care about any other vaccinations. Having been a vet tech for 30 yrs I'm not paying a tech $50 for a $9. shot. TS to the rescue again... 

My vet is taking care of all the yearly testing, heartworm, fecal and blood work. No reason for him to do shots and don't want to do them yearly. 

Who knows, I may be starting a new fad in town!


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## Yaichi's Mom (Jul 21, 2012)

puddles everywhere said:


> Exactly, this is why I was surprised the local vet was willing... he seems to be very agreeable to go outside the normal.
> 
> Different vaccines have different strengths. Everyone here uses a vaccine that needs to be redone every year.  I can't expect the vet to purchase one vile of a 3 yr vaccine for just me.
> 
> ...


There is no difference between the 1 or 3 year rabies vaccine except for the label....it is exactly the same compound.

https://dogs.thefuntimesguide.com/dog_rabies_vaccine/

Rabies Vaccine Labeling - Dogs Naturally Magazine


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

You should try to keep in mind, that a lot of info you find online is not accurate. 
I had a lengthy discussion with my Vet about this recently. She told me if you are on a Vet School website, the info is accurate. If you aren't, you should take the info with a grain of salt, it's not set in stone. 

This is an interesting article by Dr. Patty Khuly about Titers-

The Truth About 'Titering' Instead of Vaccination | petMD

I think you need to discuss vaccinations and titers with your Vet and decide what works best for you and your dog and also keep in mind your State laws that require certain vaccinations such as Rabies.


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## Yaichi's Mom (Jul 21, 2012)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> You should try to keep in mind, that a lot of info you find online is not accurate.
> I had a lengthy discussion with my Vet about this recently. She told me if you are on a Vet School website, the info is accurate. If you aren't, you should take the info with a grain of salt, it's not set in stone.
> 
> This is an interesting article by Dr. Patty Khuly about Titers-
> ...


Couldn't agree with you more Carolina Mom.

DVMs as we all have probably witnessed over many years of having our wonderful animal souls have very diverse opinions on many modalities of both treatment and preventative care.

It takes both due diligence to filter out what we find on the internet to attempt to ensure it is a credible source, in addition to discussing protocols with a veterinarian we trust and one that we can align with relative to the best care for our dogs and cats.

Brisby has had many medical problems in her short almost 5 years of life which has spurned me to attempt to find the best that I can do for her.

Just as an aside, all that I have posted on this topic and elsewhere on the forum, with links, is "blessed" and agreed with by all 3 of Brisby's DVM's. I left 2 veterinary practices as they essentially advised that keeping Brisby on various medications, keeping up with many vaccinations and other treatments, having surgery was the only option. It didn't seem right to me so I left their care and found others ( with more than 20+ years of experience) who had diametrically different POV, and were willing to work with me. I can't prove or attest that they are "right" and others are "wrong". All I can say is to do your homework and follow your heart and gut, question when you are in doubt and then go with what you feel is the best for your dog/cat.


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## Yaichi's Mom (Jul 21, 2012)

I just got Brisby's titer test results and thought I would share what they look like for those who have never seen one.

Brisby was given rabies in the puppy series and then boostered 1 year later. When she was "due" to be re-vaccinated 3 years later, I opted to run a titer in lieu of vaccination. Her titer came in very strong at 3.3 compared to base required immunity at 0.5.

Here is what it looks like:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rabies RFFIT (Non-Export) 3.3 IU/mL 

- KSU Test performed at Kansas State University 

The reporting units for rabies RFFIT have changed. The IU/mL format follows recommendations from the current Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP). CK

A serum concentration of 0.5 IU/mL is acceptable for export to most rabies-free areas, but local regulations may determine if a booster vaccination is needed. CK


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Does Canada not have a law about Rabies vaccines? 

Here in the US, my State in particular, Rabies can not be titered. 

Animals must be vaccinated according to the Rabies protocol, the first shot given last for one year, the next vaccination last for three years and animals are vaccinated every three years after that. 

A Rabies certificate and Rabies tags are issued to the owner at the time of vaccination.


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## Yaichi's Mom (Jul 21, 2012)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> Does Canada not have a law about Rabies vaccines?
> 
> Here in the US, my State in particular, Rabies can not be titered.
> 
> ...


Yes, Canada and each province has a law pertaining to rabies vaccination. Each region within a province ( much like a county in the US) may have slightly different laws/specification. Some regions in Ontario are accepting and/or beginning to accept titers in lieu of re-vaccination.

All regulations in Ontario exempt pets from re-vaccination if a DVM states that the dog/cat should not be re-vaccinated for health reasons ( the rabies vaccine specifications state to be administered to healthy pets only)

In my region, titers are not accepted....yet. Should I be "caught", the worst that can happen is that they issue a fine and demand that I re-vaccinate, which I would challenge based on Brisby's titer. I will keep a printed copy of her titer readily available if needed. In addition, Brisby's DVM totally supports no re-vaccination if titer results show strong immunity.

I am willing to take my chances and challenge this law if need be. 

My main concern is that Brisby is protected and her titer clearly indicates that she is. I am not willing to compromise her immune system by allowing her to be injected with a vaccine she does not need, however that is my personal choice and I am not implying that my decision is one that anyone else should make if they do not feel it's the right choice for their dog/s. 

I feel very strongly about this as my bridge girl Yaichi, developed a tumour at the injection site when she was boostered for rabies at the age of 7. At that time I was following the vaccination protocol of the day with yearly vaccinations. I lost her to hemangiosarcoma at the age of 12 and the tumour at the rabies injections site ( originally diagnosed as lipoma, however was cancerous over time) by that time had grown to the size of a 4 lb roast ( outer hip)...long story which I have shared several times in other threads so I won't repeat here. I didn't know anything about over vaccination at the time and followed whatever my DVM said. 

Before Brisby joined our family, I read and read attempting to research what I could do to keep the dreaded "C" demon away which is felling so many dogs, especially GRs in both alarming rates and very young ages. I was and am determined to do all that I am able to keep Brisby as healthy, non immune compromised as possible with a species appropriate balanced diet, minimal necessary vaccinations, pesticides, medications etc. Time will tell I guess whether any of this will make a difference or not, however I will feel that I did the best for my girl to give her the chance at the most healthy and long life as I humanly could.

In time, I hope that https://www.rabieschallengefund.org/about_us]The Rabies Challenge Fund[/URL] will make strides in the current rabies laws, as well as Dr John Robb with Protect the Pets: Be a Pet Protector : Veterinary Professionals : Protect The Pets


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Thank you, I was curious as I know different Countries have different laws, ordinances and do things differently. 

Here, at least in my State, there's no getting around the Rabies vaccination. 
Laws vary from State to State also in the US, even Counties within a State have different laws. 

I have found Vets in my area vary greatly as well as medical Drs. It all boils down to one you feel confident and comfortable with I think.


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## Yaichi's Mom (Jul 21, 2012)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> Thank you, I was curious as I know different Countries have different laws, ordinances and do things differently.
> 
> Here, at least in my State, there's no getting around the Rabies vaccination.
> Laws vary from State to State also in the US, even Counties within a State have different laws.
> ...


Not challenging but just curious....what do you mean by "no getting around the rabies vaccination"? How is that done in NC? Is there a registry or how is that enforced?

It is interesting to note though, that veterinarians in both the US and Canada have titers done in lieu of vaccination for themselves for rabies immunity as part of their professional risk to exposure, yet titers are not accepted for our dogs and cats. My DVM just told me that she s due for her rabies titer.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

When Vets give the Rabies vaccination, a certificate and Rabies tag are given to the owner. The owner has to put the Tag on the dog and should be visible at all times when it's out in public. 

The certificate and rabies tags are issued through the County and Registered with them according to the city/county/state ordinances for each animal that is given a Rabies vaccination.
They are given to the owner by the Vet clinic at the time of vaccination.

I did some searching and found this info-

http://epi.publichealth.nc.gov/cd/lhds/manuals/rabies/docs/vax_qa_for_vets.pdf




> 4. Q. Under what circumstances can a rabies titer (Kansas State University, Rabies
> Laboratory) be substituted for rabies vaccination in a dog? …in a cat?
> 
> 
> ...


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## Yaichi's Mom (Jul 21, 2012)

Thank you Carolina Mom for the above.

We get rabies tags ( for collar/harness) and certificates here also, issued by the DVM office. I don't believe that any records are kept at any government level.

The fine for having a pet with "not up to date" vaccinations here in Ontario is $90.00 and the Department of Health can mandate that a booster vaccination be given. This typically does not happen unless there is a bite incident reported where proof of vaccination/immunity is required. I am happy to take my chances knowing that Brisby is protected from rabies and would challenge any fine/mandate for re-vaccination should that ever come to pass, although technically we are disobeying a law. 

Brisby's DVM was very happy with her very strong serum concentration from the titer. She stated that she would never consider re-vaccinating for rabies with titer results at that level as boostering does not give additional immunity for animals that are already protected. 

Hopefully one day soon, Dr Ronald Schultz/others work in immunology will be recognized relative vaccinations for our beloved dogs/cat.


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## Yaichi's Mom (Jul 21, 2012)

Excellent discussion between DVM's Dr John Robb and Dr Karen Becker regarding the over-vaccination of pets.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Thank you... I found a place that will do the Titers but must do the rabies... too many critters in this small rural town.


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## Yaichi's Mom (Jul 21, 2012)

puddles everywhere said:


> Thank you... I found a place that will do the Titers but must do the rabies... too many critters in this small rural town.


Great news that you found a place for the titer testing. 

Dr John Robb ( as in the video) is offering titer testing and immunity certificates at a very low price. I wish I had known this before I had Brisby's titers run for DAP and rabies...they cost me just under $550!! 

If you decide to use Dr John Robb, I believe you have to have your vet draw and spin a blood sample ( cost about $10) and then send in. Another way is below.

This is from his FB page if you find it helpful:



> Educate Your Veterinarian! Push the share button! Save lives!
> 
> 
> Give these easy to use instructions to your veterinarian!
> ...


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## CAgirlinIA (Dec 22, 2017)

*Great thread*

Thanks! This vaccination issue has been on my mind for the last few years. The CBS news piece about Goldens having a propensity for cancer brought it to the forefront. We are "expecting" a new puppy in the summer and having lost both our previous Goldens to cancer - one in the 90's and one in 2005 - I've been reading up on "cancer preventatives." Our last dog was a Golden mix who passed away last July at the age of 13 (and this is the looonnnggggest I've ever gone without a dog!). I have always adhered to the yearly boosters; rabies every three years but in doing my "cancer research" vaccinations were front and center. In looking back I recall Bear, our first Golden, developed an enormous tumor on his back where an injection would have been. Certainly never occurred to me at the time that he MAY have passed away at the age of 10 due to something I thought was "good" for him. Our second Golden had thyroid/liver cancer and died at 8 1/2. Knowing the high cancer rate of Goldens is why I went the rescue dog route for 13 years but am now ready to have another Golden Retriever. What I take away from this thread (in addition to all the valuable info) is do your research and do what's right for you and your dog. I made the choice to not get a flu shot most of my life (until I got old haha)....now I can make an informed choice for my dog, since he can't do it for himself.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

In my area people aren't so great at keeping up the vaccines so all 3 vets insist on doing Rabies & distemper combo shot on a yearly basis. The state only requires the rabies as often as the vaccine bottle requires so will continue with this every 3 years.

The vet did insist on the 3 puppy shot series and the 1st year booster. The tractor supply offers Titers testing and will be doing this along with the Rabies vaccine as required.

Just my opinion but all my kids take Bravecto for flea & tick prevention.... heartworm medication that also kills round, whip, hook & tape worms year around because of the mild weather. This is more than enough "prevention" for anyone. 
I know this stuff is necessary and nursed too many rescues through heartworm treatments but how can you not think that all this "prevention" can't be part of the reason for so much cancer and shorter lived dogs. If I can avoid giving the combo shot, well that's at least one thing they won't have to have.

Good luck with whatever path you choose to take.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

I have titered my dogs for the last 10-12 years. My last dog got only two of her puppy shots, and even then I only vaccinated for parvo and distemper (I bought an entire tray of vaccine that just does Parvo and Distemper since everyone around me seemed to only have the "5-way" vaccine). Two weeks after her second puppy shot I titered her and her titer showed immunity. I retitered her again when she was about a year, and about every three years after that, and she has continued to show high levels of antibodies with no additional vaccination. I vaccinate for rabies as required by law, but go out of my way to find a vet who will use a thimerosal-free vaccine. Both of my last two Goldens came down with cancer within eight months of their 10-year rabies vaccine. There may be absolutely no correlation, but I'm going to be hard pressed to give my dog her 10 year vaccine when it's time. :-( I don't vaccinate my dogs for anything else.

I believe the Rabies Challenge Fund recently completed the 5th year of their challenge study (meaning they actually infected lab beagles with rabies to see if the vaccinated ones were protected), and I believe they have shown immunity for five years (not that that will buy you anything with the authorities who legislate how often you have to vaccinate - yet). FWIW I had to delay giving my boy his rabies shot when he was about 7 due to an active lyme infection, so I titered him for my own peace of mind and his levels were several hundreds times higher than is considered protective for humans.

For those of you whose vets don't offer titering... as others have mentioned you should be able to get your vet to pull and prep the blood and then send it to a lab yourself. I use Hemopet Canine Blood Bank, Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory & Greyhound Rescue, Dr. Dodds (which is also a blood bank run by Jean Dodds - one of the researchers involved in the Rabies Challenge study). I just checked their order form and a combined parvo/distemper titer is $52, and a rabies titer is $98. She also is a leading authority on Thyroid issues and offers a variety of tests for thyroid, as well as a food allergy test, and most standard blood tests (the CBC/Chem/Diff test is listed for $87). All her prices are MUCH lower than my vet offers, even when I figure in paying my vet to draw and prep and then paying for express shipping to CA.

FWIW this website is also a fabulous resource: DogAware.com: Diet & Health Info for Man's Best Friend. Not only for vaccination information, but also things like nutrition, arthritis, pain control. etc.


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## dlmrun2002 (Mar 4, 2011)

Being in a VERY high tick infestation area, I was wondering are they offering a titer on Lyme's tick disease. I know they have a vaccine given around 9 weeks as my last Golden got it. I know ticks also carry many diseases with Erhlichiosis being another popular one of concern. My last Golden oddly enough always tested positive for Lymes but Never symptomatic. Perhaps the vaccine worked.

dlm ny country


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