# Please help ( ready to cry )



## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

How long do you have her outside. Some dogs it takes longer than others to go potty. It takes Tayla forever sometimes and she is 20 months. The screaming you will just need to ignore, unless it's because she has to potty.


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## lotty1987 (Nov 7, 2010)

she was outside for at least 20 minutes today.


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## sdhgolden (Aug 13, 2012)

I wonder if putting her in her crate vs pen would be better for now since they don't usually like to go where they have to sleep?

Also, how much time does she spend alone? Even without the other dog? Maybe she needs to spend some time on her own so she can learn to be alone and not whine.

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## lotty1987 (Nov 7, 2010)

Done that too she does same :-(


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## sdhgolden (Aug 13, 2012)

She poops in her crate too?


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## lotty1987 (Nov 7, 2010)

yep, ends up covered in it too


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## sdhgolden (Aug 13, 2012)

Hmm..How big is her crate? Is there a divider? She should only have enough room to stand, turn around and lay down. 


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## Jaykay (Jul 20, 2013)

Pooing and screaming sound like fear. I wonder what her experience of a puppy pen was before you got her?

Can she see out of the pen or is it one of those with mesh sides that can't be seen through? 

Maybe the association with being left alone is the scary thing. Can you put it where you watch TV/read and have her in it sometimes when you and Milly are still there, peacefully alongside her?


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## lotty1987 (Nov 7, 2010)

well iv put that upstairs now in my bedroom as after 4 nights of her screaming until 3am I realised that was only way to settle her


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## lotty1987 (Nov 7, 2010)

Yeah the pen you can see all the way through. Iv tried the radio and tv. I have the startings of a migraine so feeling emotional now as well .


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Where did you get her from? Has she been like this since the day she came home?


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Well ,honestly, the girl is not happy, but give it time,she needs to get use to a crate,or pen,or both.


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## lotty1987 (Nov 7, 2010)

she is lovely and a happy pup when with me, she was bought from a breeder she had 4 sisters and mum with her


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

She does not want to be in the pen ,or crate, but that is the best place for her, it will take time,some dogs just do not like them.


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

Sounds like separation anxiety for sure!!!!


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## Jaykay (Jul 20, 2013)

Good plan. She sounds like a scared little girl. 

Did you say you had a crate too, can you do the 'this is a safe place to be and I'm not always abandoned when I'm in it' with the crate downstairs? 

The other thing I've done for small scared creatures in the past is get them a soft toy at least as big as them, to snuggle up to, instead of mum and littermates.

I've just rescued a 9 month old who also doesn't sleep til 3am so I have empathy!

Sorry about the migraine. And feeling emotional - but do your level best not to, it makes it all worse {sending hugs}


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Oh I had this problem with the last pup. So I happened to attend a Connie Cleveland seminar and brought the pup along with the crate to the seminar. It was a 2 day seminar. Connie came up with a 3 cent solution. You take a used water bottle and put 3 pennies in it or whatever you have that makes noise. Every time the pup makes a sound at an inappropriate time, you wack the side of the crate with the bottle and tell them stop it. The sound shocks them, it doesn't hurt them. My little princess (what Connie called her), was a full on pain in the butt. She took all weekend at the seminar to finally be a bit quieter. Then at home it took several weeks. Sometimes getting up in the night to wack the crate. I know it sounds harsh, but it doesn't hurt the dog, it just lets them know that enough is enough, get over it, being in that space is not hurting you. Just remember you are not a bad person, but you need the peace also. My little princess got over it and now she's good in her crate, which she has to be when we attend field events. It is amazing how they will scream though. She is a little princess too I'm sure!

Let us know how it goes.


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## JMME (Jun 18, 2012)

Maybe the x-pen is too big of a space for her (not creating the same den feelings) and that's why she is still using it to go to the bathroom? I would try a crate with just enough room for her to turn around and I would also watch for signs of her having to go poop so that you can scoop her up and take her outside before it happens in her crate or pen. I know with Ripley we taught him verbal commands for going to the bathroom and carried him to the same spot each time and rewarded him with treats when he did and lots of praise. Sometimes we were there for a long time (20 mins) but he got much quicker and I understood his signals better. As far as the screaming goes, are you completely ignoring her screams? Unless they were screams for having to go to the bathroom (we eventually were able to tell a difference) we completely ignored his wailing. Sometimes it seemed like it would never stop! It helped to get him to bed a bit before me so that he settled before I came into the room. I also would crate him in my bedroom when I would leave and it helped calm him so maybe those are things that would work for her? I'm sorry you are going through this and wish you luck! Would love to see some pictures of her


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## lotty1987 (Nov 7, 2010)

:wavey: thanks for the advice she is ok in the crate as she can see me from where she is ( im gradually moving it towards the landing ) its when I leave. For example today I put her into her pen when I went to have a bath, I went upstairs to run it and put my bedding on the bed ( a 3 minute job ) in that time she had pood - even though I had taken her out beforehand. I didn't realise puppies get separation anxiety at such an early age. My other golden is always around in the same room normally.


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## Jaykay (Jul 20, 2013)

I'm sure rewarding the right behaviour is a better way to go than further scaring an already unhappy little puppy :-/


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## lotty1987 (Nov 7, 2010)

she is a very happy puppy when with people. She was the biggest of the litter and I wonder if she was the boss. Now with having another dog in the house she is feeling defenceless. At the moment I have put her in her pen where she can see me and she is happy if not a lil grumbly.


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## Wenderwoman (Jan 7, 2013)

I know that we took our puppy out every hour or two for quite awhile. I think the rule is that they can hold it 1 hour for every month of age. So, at best a 2 month can hold it for 2 hours. They also have training pads that some people use.

When my pup cried about being in the crate, I would wait until she calmed down before I left her alone. Most people would probably say that's bad advice but she only cried for about a week. Once she got too big for the crate, we stopped using it but keep very close tabs on her.

My puppy is now 8 months and we leave her gated in the living room when we leave the house. She does get really anxious and cries but we just quickly leave. We've done this for a couple months now and she has not been destructive so I'm assuming she calms down after we leave.


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## lotty1987 (Nov 7, 2010)

she holds it all through the night - 7 hours sleep I got last night - after I realised if I put her crate next to the bed she slept lol


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## lotty1987 (Nov 7, 2010)

uploaded some pics to my profile too x


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## Wenderwoman (Jan 7, 2013)

One other thing that I notice with my puppy is that activity is a big factor in how she behaves. If she isn't exercised enough, she is much harder to handle and acts out a lot more. Maybe try wearing her out a little bit before putting her in the pen, either through playing or training.


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## lotty1987 (Nov 7, 2010)

Im hoping after her second injection on Saturday I can start to take her out and walk her and that will help her to relax I have a pretty big garden though


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## JeanieBeth (Jul 13, 2013)

We rescued Bree 2 months ago at 5 months old. Bree wasn't crate trained, potty trained and never given a toy. They bought her, didn't want her after. I have to walk Bree 20 minutes after she eats and drinks for 10-20 minutes. I take Bree out on a lead, I don't have a fenced in yard, so we walk 8-10 times a day. After 4 weeks she stopped going in the house. Retrievers as you know love walks! Walking on a lead is also challenging but once they get the knack its great a workout(Clicker training, treats, helped Bree). Walking is helping Bree with socialization, exercise and is a great energy zapper. Retrieving squeaky tennis balls, playing with her toys, swimming, chasing a laser, any exercise that burns puppy energy is great! 
Crating ideas: I would make sure she's fed, and walked for 30 minutes before crating her. Give her a frozen hollow white bone stuffed with pumpkin puree, peanut butter or stuff a Kong. Leave her in there for 5-20 minutes, increase the time each time. When you let her out praise the heck out of her!  Good luck to all of you!!

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## kleintje (Jun 16, 2013)

MominGermany said:


> Sounds like separation anxiety for sure!!!!
> 
> 
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I second this. 

It sounded like separation anxiety (SA) if she pee and poop only when you are going to leave or have left her in the crate. I'm sorry that you're going through this, I faced this with my dog Josh the cavalier king charles. It's quite frustrating but with step-by-step SA training, most dogs will recover after a few weeks; and maybe months in severe cases.

If it is SA, she is soiling her crate because she is panicking and she can't control herself. I would feed her in her playpen/crate or give something to chew like kong. When she has started chewing or eating, go to another room for a brief 5-10 second and come back before she panics. Gradually you could extend the time to minutes and hours. But it may take weeks; during this time it's best not to leave her alone till her SA training is completed. It may help to get a playpen or a crate that looks entirely different than the current one for a fresh start.


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

I had a pup with severe separation anxiety as a puppy. I ended up putting her in doggy daycare where she could be watched closely if I could not watch her. It resolved with confidence. I'm sorry you are going through this.


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## kleintje (Jun 16, 2013)

MominGermany said:


> I had a pup with severe separation anxiety as a puppy. I ended up putting her in doggy daycare where she could be watched closely if I could not watch her. It resolved with confidence. I'm sorry you are going through this.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


Absolutely, puppy day care or pet sitter will help greatly during this time.


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## Jaykay (Jul 20, 2013)

Well, except that you can mainly be around for the next 5 1/2 weeks (can you tell I'm in the same position, and counting ;-))

I would do it like this. 

1. Have the pup in a crate, right next to you and Milly, when things are quiet in the evening. Do this every evening for a couple of weeks. Use the playpen when you absolutely have to leave her during this training time (ie the whole summer) and accept that you'll get accidents. 

2. 'Practise separation'. Once you've got calm in her crate, leave Milly next to her and literally, go out of sight for 10 seconds and return. If that's too long, cut it down! Praise her for being such a brave girl. The trick is to go up in such tiny increments that you never actually invoke the panicking. What you're doing is 'de-sensitising' her, ie getting her used to separation in such small amounts that she barely notices. 

When you've got it up to a 'shower's worth' or whatever, start right back at less than a minute again, this time taking Milly with you.

Slow - but you can overcome it this way for good, so it'll be worth it. Don't rush is because if you cause anxiety in the crate, you'll have to go right back to scratch. Eventually you'll use the crate when you leave her, which she will have learned is fine.


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## sineadleaf (Mar 17, 2013)

As everyone else has said, if its only when you leave it sounds like separation anxiety. I don't really have any advice except to add that if its seemingly random and not pnly wjen you leave the room the pooping might be associated with the floor. Our trainer said that if a puppy gets used to pooping inside on the tiles/carpet/floorboards then it associates that floor texture with its trigger to poo. That's why some people can spend forever outside and then the moment you come inside puppy poos. 


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## Jaykay (Jul 20, 2013)

How's things?


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## lotty1987 (Nov 7, 2010)

Hey, well things aren't as bad I suppose, I now give her a kong to stop her screaming when I leave, which settles me a lot more. She is also now in her pen in the kitchen with my other dog, this is after this morning where she scaled the pen! climbed the stairs then got herself locked in my study and pood! Went to the vet today for her second injection and he said when she had pood when away take her outside leave her there then clean it up. He said it was a dirty protest and that we need to be harsh now


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

I am glad things are improving a little. However, when I read your post there is one thing that doesn't feel right, that is the idea that a puppy can send out a 'dirty protest'. Basically that means that she poos to get back to you, right? Somehow I find it hard to believe that a pup that young can think that far: if you do this, then I do that....


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## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

Sorry you're having a tough time with this. I agree with inge though, dogs don't think like that. Also on a side note, personally if a vet told me that "we need to be harsh now" that would be the very last time he saw me and he would not get paid for that visit.


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## USAFWife74 (Jan 13, 2013)

Yes, dogs don't think with malice. They cannot plan revenge. 


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## BajaOklahoma (Sep 27, 2009)

Hmmm, I'm not sure I agree with your vet.

Our vet taught us how to potty train almost 25 years and we've done it that way since because it works. We go outside on the leash, every single time. We spend 10-15 minutes, use lots of praise for peeing and pooping. Then we go back inside. If the puppy peed/pooped if needed, then the puppy got to play in the house. If not, the puppy was put in the crate for 10 minutes, then back outside for another try. Since your puppy has learned to go in the pen and crate, I would repeat the outside trip in 5 minute. Repeat as necessary.
I've stood outside with an umbrella. I've stood outside in a parka, in a snow storm. We keep it up until they are 6 months old. 

The first day, take the puppy out every 30 minutes. If it is successful, the next day, you move it back to 45 minutes. If not, keep with the 30 minute schedule. I would probably do a couple of days at each increment of time.
Do you have someone coming to let the puppy out when school starts? We were able to find a community college student that I knew who was willing to come over twice during the time I was at school. We paid her a hundred/week, which she used toward Christmas (including toys for Banker).

The rule of thumb is they should be able to hold it for the time equal to their age in months + 1. A 3 month puppy should be able to hold it 4 hours. 
Our older dogs are very helpful in recognizing the signs that the puppy may need to go out sooner than the schedule, so everybody goes out. Eventually, we learn the puppy's signal for going out.
Mandy, Bennett, Bailey, Riley, Banker and now Rogue have all been trained this way. I don't remember the last accident I had to clean up.
It's putting the time in early so you can enjoy later. Good luck.


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## lotty1987 (Nov 7, 2010)

when I am here there is maybe one pee accident a day which for a 11 week old puppy I think is good. Plus the way the vet said it was like she id pooing to get me to come back to her to give her attention


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## lotty1987 (Nov 7, 2010)

She is a very strong willed lil lady too lol


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## 3Furbabies (Apr 26, 2012)

You're not alone! we had a terrible time housetraining Hunter. Even now at 16 weeks im still overly cautious and still keep him in his pen when I cant watch him as he will still pee on the kitchen floor given the chance. He had a few accidents in his pen last week but that was my fault. We'd had a heatwave so he was drinking more and me being an idiot forgot he'd need to go out more!! :doh:

He doesnt (and never has) whined to be let out. So I had to gauge when he needed to go and I was stood outside for what seemed hours at a time in the beginning making sure he went before being let back in. Hes better now as he will jump up at the pen door 80% of the time when he needs to go. He can hold it for about 3hrs during the day but one time went 4hrs as we were stuck in traffic and just couldnt get back sooner.


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## lotty1987 (Nov 7, 2010)

we left her for 2 hours this afternoon and came back to a torn up puppy pad and that was it lol this morning she scaled the pen went upstairs got herself locked in the study and pood :-(


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## 3Furbabies (Apr 26, 2012)

oh dear! Yes Hunter liked to tear up puppy pads so I just stopped putting them in there. How tall is your pen and how old is your pup? Hunter is a big lad but theres no way he can scale ours. Does she have a toileting pattern yet? Hunter doesnt really but theres one thing he does without fail now and thats a wee and a poo first thing in the morning. 
Does she get enough exercise? Im not saying it to be rude and apologies if you have covered this but I know in the heat we've had just recently i didnt take our dogs out as much and my gosh did i know it with his behaviour!


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## lotty1987 (Nov 7, 2010)

She is 11 weeks, it is the same size as a baby gate so approx. 4 foot. I have not been able to take her out walking as she hadn't had the injections however iv been playing with her for hours ( she has been sleeping lots too ) and taking her to my mums who has jack russells to play with. She sleeps through the night from 11 ish to half 6 in the morning then is taken downstairs and straight outside where she has a pee or a poo then she has her breakfast then goes back outside for whatever she hasn't had the first time lol when I wrote this post I was feeling really emotional as all I had done for 3 days was clean up poo and my house was smelling like it giving me migraine although its not as bad now im working on the SA by not staying in the house and leaving for an hour at least twice a day. I can walk her from Wednesday so hoping to get into a routine !


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## Jaykay (Jul 20, 2013)

I don't agree with the vet either - clearly a long time since he did any behaviour training. That's the sort of stuff my elderly father says - and my SIL who is a trained dog behaviourist just sighs and carefully explains again......

Yeh, clearing up poo isn't the nicest puppy job but I still reckon it's better than dealing with nappies ;-) Just part of what goes with little 'uns I guess. 

Glad you'll be able to walk her soon - you know the '5 mins a day for each month of their life' limit don't you, cos of their growing bones? (Sorry if you do know).

The kong sounds like a great idea - I'm sure a lot of the issue with Goldies is enough to do, both mentally and physically.


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