# Breeds similar to Goldens?



## Sweet Girl

Apologies for what might be a stupid question - but why do you need to move away from a Golden? 

From my very limited knowledge, retrievers (Golden, Labrador) are used so often because they are smart, eager to please, reliable, loyal, and a good size - not to small that they could get hurt - not too big (as a Newfie might be) that it wouldn't fit under a restaurant table or on an airplane.

I think poodles are also being used more - smart, and less likely to cause allergic reactions. 

I'd stick with a Golden! (But I may be a little biased).


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## Guiding Golden

I just want to explore my options. I know there are many advantages to using Goldens and Labs (and previously, very often GSDs), but one of the reasons for the popular use of both Retrievers is that, due to their temperaments, they are suitable for the first time dog owner, which is a major advantage to service dog handlers who have never owned a dog before. As an owner trainer, my options are far more vast, so I want to make the best educated decision to meet my needs as possible.

There are several breeds that I'm considering, based on size and temperament which have very little in common with Goldens, but have the capability to meet my particular needs. Some include Dobermans, Greyhounds (have owned previously), Siberian Huskies (have owned previously), Samoyeds (have a good deal of experience with and a great mentor to receive guidance from), Malamutes and Berners. None are particularly similar to Goldens, but possess other characteristics that could serve as advantages to me.

Yes, you bring up a very valid point in the disadvantages to the use of giant breeds, like Newfs, and that's one of the significant reasons why I'd likely go with a large breed. However, I do know of many giant breeds who are successful service dogs and, like some of the other breeds I mentioned, some do have characteristics that would be suitable for me.

I have several friends with Standard Poodle service dogs. While I'd consider the breed, they are far from the top of my list.


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## BayBeams

A friend has a Samoyed as her service dog. It seems to be a good size and somewhat biddable. She has not had the best success with her dog but it could be the combination of this particular dog and the ineffectiveness of the trainer. The coat with her dog takes a significant amount of grooming. It seems, mores so than a Golden.

My other thought is that although a Dobie might make a quick learner as a service dog they would not be as accepted by the community in many places due to a fear factor of some of the working breeds by the public. Just a thought, and of couse that could be a good thing in certain situations.


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## OnMyWay2MyDreams

I would say Newfies and Berners are most like goldens in temperament but they are quite large. I like Samoyeds too but the grooming involved is more work.

I love dobermans but you have to make sure of where you get them from have good even temperaments. I have met a lot more nice dobermans then mean tho. There are two of them in my obedience class and theyre extremely smart.


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## aerolor

In my opinion the dog most like a golden retriever in just about every aspect (and with added extras) is the flat coated retriever. A word of caution though, they are usually very much a working breed. They are far more active than the usual golden retriever and have a lot more drive and natural ability. Not really a beginner's dog, but, get the right strain and they have the most fabulous temperament and are extremely intelligent (something which can get them into trouble if in the wrong environment). Give it what it needs and the flatcoated retriever is a breed par excellence - my breed of first choice and a breed I have kept and bred for many years.
Another choice to consider for a service dog is a labradoodle. Again, very lively but trainable. However, it is a fallacy that the coats of all lab.doodles are easy to manage and non-shedding.


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## Loisiana

I love the Bernese Mountain Dogs. Just wish they had longer life spans.


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## Guiding Golden

BayBeams said:


> My other thought is that although a Dobie might make a quick learner as a service dog they would not be as accepted by the community in many places due to a fear factor of some of the working breeds by the public. Just a thought, and of couse that could be a good thing in certain situations.


I would have thought that this would be the case too! And yes, it is something that was part of the appeal to me, as a) it could be a deterrent to people I would prefer not to be approached by, and b) it could serve as a deterrent to people who think it's OK to pet or otherwise disturb a service dog, while working. Unfortunately, interference with service dogs is a big problem, because the general public doesn't understand how dangerous it can be for the team to be distracted.

That being said, the fear factor could act as a huge detriment if business owners stereotype the breed and refuse a handler access. Handlers with all types of breeds get enough access challenges, as it is. With a Golden, who is a guide dog- consistent with the image of what the general public thinks a service dog must be, I've never gotten a serious access challenge.

I had the pleasure to go out with a friend, who has a doberman with cropped ears (part of what makes the dogs look more intimidating) and I observed that she got even more positive attention about her dog's breed than I did, with Bradley. People were amazed that Dobermans could be service dogs and adored him. He's quite the fine service dog too! I'm just not sure that I would want to get any more attention than I already get with Bradley


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## cubbysan

Guiding Golden said:


> I would have thought that this would be the case too! And yes, it is something that was part of the appeal to me, as a) it could be a deterrent to people I would prefer not to be approached by, and b) it could serve as a deterrent to people who think it's OK to pet or otherwise disturb a service dog, while working. Unfortunately, interference with service dogs is a big problem, because the general public doesn't understand how dangerous it can be for the team to be distracted.
> 
> That being said, the fear factor could act as a huge detriment if business owners stereotype the breed and refuse a handler access. Handlers with all types of breeds get enough access challenges, as it is. With a Golden, who is a guide dog- consistent with the image of what the general public thinks a service dog must be, I've never gotten a serious access challenge.
> 
> I had the pleasure to go out with a friend, who has a doberman with cropped ears (part of what makes the dogs look more intimidating) and I observed that she got even more positive attention about her dog's breed than I did, with Bradley. People were amazed that Dobermans could be service dogs and adored him. He's quite the fine service dog too! I'm just not sure that I would want to get any more attention than I already get with Bradley


The problem with having a dog like a Doberman and GSD is people are very phobic over them and I mean as a handicap for themselves. I never realized that until I had two GSDs myself. Even when they were four months old, people were afraid. I would be afraid of really making people in public fearful, to the point they would leave the store, event, or whatever if you came in with one. I will never have another GSD for that very reason.


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## Guiding Golden

While I appreciate your position, I cannot let that be a determining factor in my choice of breeds. Some people are terrified of dogs in general, and I can't let that dictate how I choose to mitigate my own disability.

Just as a note, the Americans with Disabilities Act does not allow denial of access to public places, based soley on others' fears or allergies. The ADA protects my rights, as a person with disabilities and the only thing that would affect that is if the other person met the criteria for being legally disabled by their fear or allergy. Even in that event, it would be illegal to deny access to the service dog handler; the situation must be handled in a manner that accommodates both people with disabilities.

I also have friends with Pitbulls who have never run into the problem of people making a fuss based on breed discrimination. I would consider the breed, myself, if not for the problem of their height not meeting my needs.


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## Megora

Do you mind if I ask what your specific purpose for this dog would be? Is he going to be retrieving things, turning on and off lights, opening and shutting doors, etc.... 

The higher the obedience need, I would be looking at goldens, labs, shepherds, border collies. These are the breeds who immediately come to mind when I think about a dog who would be a loyal devoted companion and obedient/motivated enough to learn fast. 

Bermese Mountain dogs and flat coated retrievers <- Those two breeds are possibilities, but you know even the owners of these dogs count every year they have their dogs beyond 5 years as a gift. 

If you are mainly looking for a companion who will have less asked of him other than support and companionship, then it could be any breed large and small.

Around here the majority of service dogs that I've met tend to be german shepherds and labradors. A LOT of german shepherds. 

I still sometimes see goldens, but the local groups seem to prefer labs. Goldens are more visible as therapy dogs.


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## shortcake23

Loisiana said:


> I love the Bernese Mountain Dogs. Just wish they had longer life spans.


Me too! I'd love to have one, but their life span is so short (even more so now!)


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## cubbysan

Guiding Golden said:


> While I appreciate your position, I cannot let that be a determining factor in my choice of breeds. Some people are terrified of dogs in general, and I can't let that dictate how I choose to mitigate my own disability.
> 
> Just as a note, the Americans with Disabilities Act does not allow denial of access to public places, based soley on others' fears or allergies. The ADA protects my rights, as a person with disabilities and the only thing that would affect that is if the other person met the criteria for being legally disabled by their fear or allergy. Even in that event, it would be illegal to deny access to the service dog handler; the situation must be handled in a manner that accommodates both people with disabilities.
> 
> I also have friends with Pitbulls who have never run into the problem of people making a fuss based on breed discrimination. I would consider the breed, myself, if not for the problem of their height not meeting my needs.


I understand about the ADA, but please think of the places that you will be bringing this dog - elementary schools, parks, stores with children. People that are deathly afraid of dogs, are even worse when they have pointed ears, but they are not as fearful of say goldens and labs. I love dobermans, too, but I have witnessed the fear and reactions of people, especially children, the fear on their faces. I have seen people go on the other side of the street, or gotten up and moved from a ball game because I had GSD with me. You might be clearing rooms out ( okay that is exaggerating ), without realizing it, that has nothing to do with ADA but with people's phobias. I was really surprised how many people have this fear.


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## Henry22

Megora said:


> Bermese Mountain dogs and flat coated retrievers <- Those two breeds are possibilities, but you know even the owners of these dogs count every year they have their dogs beyond 5 years as a gift.


My brother has a Berner and I know that they live less than goldens and other similar dogs but I thought anywhere around 8,9, and 10 was a standard age. Maybe I am wrong though, 5 seems pretty short to be thinking the dog will pass away though.

It could be his dog which is pure bred and comes from a good breeder but the temperament is totally different from my parents labs. She is much more guarded at first and is hesitant of people she doesn't know. Eventually she comes around but that initial contact is very different between her and my parent's labs. She was around 11 weeks when my brother got her and my parents think it is because she was given back to the breeder and there was some emotional issue. I do not know, however most working group dogs are much more independent than sporting dogs.


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## Megora

> My brother has a Berner and I know that they live less than goldens and other similar dogs but I thought anywhere around 8,9, and 10 was a standard age. Maybe I am wrong though, 5 seems pretty short to be thinking the dog will pass away though.


They have a lot of cancer. 

I was thinking 8 years as an average for BMD's but I've talked with people around here about the health concerns they have. Hip and elbow problems are common too. 

And I agree about the temperament. They aren't shy or fearful dogs, but they are not friendly and "love the world".


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## Rainheart

From the Berners I have seen, the average age they live to is about 6- this is from one breeder who comes to my vet, though. They are definitely lucky if they make it past 6 years old... I love the breed but I would never be able to own one.


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## Ninja

Megora said:


> I was thinking 8 years as an average for BMD's but I've talked with people around here about the health concerns they have. Hip and elbow problems are common too.


Yeah, that's pretty true around here, as well. Saying 5+ is a blessing is a bit of an exaggeration, and they're probably from an unhealthy pedigree.
I wish they lived longer as well - they're an amazing dog breed... and they are gorgeous!



Henry22 said:


> She is much more guarded at first and is hesitant of people she doesn't know. Eventually she comes around but that initial contact is very different between her and my parent's labs.


Sounds exactly like one BMD I know. This family also own another BMD, and it couldn't be more friendly! He acts like a GR, and is so goofy! So I think it just depends on the individual dog.


Sorry, off topic!


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## Megora

Ninja said:


> Yeah, that's pretty true around here, as well. Saying 5+ is a blessing is a bit of an exaggeration, and they're probably from an unhealthy pedigree.


Cancer unfortunately happens even in nice pedigrees. Talk to your vet. It starts showing up when they are 6. Which is 5+. 

I was not exaggerating. You should have a Bernese Mountain dog live to 5 years without too much problem. After 5 (6-8), you may start to have issues.

I have friends with a 7 year old, and they rushed out to get a puppy because the adult is starting to have health issues and they suspect cancer. He came from a really nice breeder.

They aren't too rare a breed around here. I know quite a lot of people with berners. And temperament-wise, they are not the same as goldens. 

The ones I've seen through class (conformation and obedience dogs) do tend to be iffy if they have goldens barging into their space and wiggling by their owners. 

ETA - I should add I do know of some sweet and friendly ones, but their manners and 'tude are a lot more like newfs than goldens. They will go pushing their faces into laps and beg for pets and food, but it's not the same ecstatic LOVE that you will get from goldens at class.


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## paula bedard

I'm glad I signed in today and found this thread. I was watchng a program on service dogs last night and the dogs in this particular program were all Rescue Dogs. Some were from Breed Rescues and others were mixed breed. Have you considered using a Rescue Dog?


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## Guiding Golden

Megora said:


> Do you mind if I ask what your specific purpose for this dog would be? Is he going to be retrieving things, turning on and off lights, opening and shutting doors, etc....


The dog will be doing a wide variety of tasks. Some include the ones you mentioned, in addition to guiding and medical response type work. While Goldens are biddable and don't mind repetitive tasks as much as other breeds, understanding what makes a particular breed tick is really of the utmost importance. The main difference would be in training and handling practices; it's not that they can't do the job well.



paula bedard said:


> Have you considered using a Rescue Dog?


The only type of rescue dog I'm seriously considering is a retired racing Greyhound. I've owned one before and click well with them. Besides that, I'm planning to stick with dogs from breeders, as it's very important for me to be well-informed about the dog's lines. I'm also hoping to get involved in conformation with my next service dog.


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## paula bedard

I hope you find the dog you're looking for. I think a Greyhound would be a great service dog. There are many in Rescue and in need of good homes, so a perfect fit maybe?


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## Shalva

A friend of mine has a flat coat that she uses as a service dog.... she uses a motorized chair and has a vent and the dogs does an assortment of things for her... they are a great team... 

however there are issues involved with the donation of puppies with flat coats and it may be difficult to find a breeder willing to donate a puppy.


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## Megora

One question I have too...

Will your current golden still be your pet when you retire him? Or if not, whether you adopt from a breeder or rescue, do you have a home waiting for your adult dog?


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## OutWest

Have you considered a mid-sized spaniel breed? Very intelligent and biddable and usually sweet tempered. Only issue I could see would be their prey drive, but that can usually be managed with exercise and training.

You might also look at a lab/golden cross. I've seen dogs like that bred to be service dogs. 

I don't know how you exercise your current dog, but if you are able to provide regular hard exercise, a herding breed might work for you. Certainly the intelligence is there, and the desire to work and do jobs. My big worry would be keeping them stimulated enough. Some of the ones I see around town are borderline obsessive-compulsive!


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## Henry22

Megora said:


> They aren't too rare a breed around here. I know quite a lot of people with berners. And temperament-wise, they are not the same as goldens.
> 
> The ones I've seen through class (conformation and obedience dogs) do tend to be iffy if they have goldens barging into their space and wiggling by their owners.
> 
> ETA - I should add I do know of some sweet and friendly ones, but their manners and 'tude are a lot more like newfs than goldens. They will go pushing their faces into laps and beg for pets and food, but it's not the same ecstatic LOVE that you will get from goldens at class.


I can definitely attest to this, my brothers dog does the same exact thing. Instead of being like a lab and wagging their tail and sitting or standing by you waiting to be petted she just shoves her head into your lab and stands there with her head down in your lap. Working dogs on a whole are a lot more independent which comes from what they were bred for, which seems counterproductive in some ways for a service dog. I can see a newfie being a good service dog though.


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## Selli-Belle

Berners are not, as some people say, Goldens in a tux. While they are very sweet they are not biddable the way Goldens are. Sammies are nowhere near as biddable as Goldens and their coats take mega attention plus if you live somewhere where it gets warm, it would be unpleasant for them to have to work outside. I won't even mention their prey drive. Huskies have the same issues as Sammies, but even less biddable, and more prey drive but fewer grooming issues.

A very nicely bred Dobe should work, but yah know, there is a reason why they use GSD, Labs and Goldens as service dogs.....they are the best breeds for the task.

One word on Flat-Coats, they also have a relatively short life span.


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