# Golden who does not retrieve



## doggymom (May 7, 2015)

Just a quick question to ask if anybody has any suggestions on how I can get my girl interested in chasing a ball and/or toy & returning it to you. She has never had an interest in chasing a ball even when she was a puppy. The extra exercise would be beneficial in helping speed her weight loss. We are walking 2 times a day and she's been on her thyroid.medicine for 2 weeks. The weight is slowly starting to drop. Interested in hearing your thoughts. TU


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## doggymom (May 7, 2015)

doggymom said:


> Just a quick question to ask if anybody has any suggestions on how I can get my girl interested in chasing a ball and/or toy & returning it to you. She has never had an interest in chasing a ball even when she was a puppy. The extra exercise would be beneficial in helping speed her weight loss. We are walking 2 times a day and she's been on her thyroid.medicine for 2 weeks. The weight is slowly starting to drop. Interested in hearing your thoughts. TU


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## doggymom (May 7, 2015)

Thanks for any ideas


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

1. Retrieving is not exercise unless you are taking your dogs out to a lake and throwing something way out there which forces your dog to swim. 

2. Many folks break their pups retrieves on day 1 when they throw toys and other stuff around.... and do not train or reinforce retrievers. Pups learn very early that they have a choice to keep toys to themselves or even ignore the toys that have been thrown because there is no fun or excitement in chasing. 

I would suggest just being patient - walk the dog at least 1-2 miles per walk. You only need 1 walk a day if you do that. Cut back on food if you can. Go down to 1 cup per meal.... 2 meals a day....


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Megora said:


> 1. Retrieving is not exercise unless you are taking your dogs out to a lake and throwing something way out there which forces your dog to swim.
> 
> 2. Many folks break their pups retrieves on day 1 when they throw toys and other stuff around.... and do not train or reinforce retrievers. Pups learn very early that they have a choice to keep toys to themselves or even ignore the toys that have been thrown because there is no fun or excitement in chasing.
> 
> I would suggest just being patient - walk the dog at least 1-2 miles per walk. You only need 1 walk a day if you do that. Cut back on food if you can. Go down to 1 cup per meal.... 2 meals a day....


I do not mean to be rude or offensive, none of this is correct.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

SRW said:


> I do not mean to be rude or offensive, none of this is correct.


In your opinion, based on the dogs you are familiar with. 

It's tough to be offended when you know you are right.  I noticed you did not attempt to advise the OP on how to teach a dog with a nonexistent or broken retrieve how to retrieve a tennis ball in order to lose weight.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I think ball throwing/retrieving is not exercise... that's just play. Swimming is far better real exercise. That said, if you really want your dog to fetch, make fetching fun for her. Get someone to go out and excitedly toss ball into the air (tennis balls not best choice though) or if dog hates balls, invest in some good bumpers- they're easier to throw far if you put a short rope on the end of them. But make the fetching exciting. Teaching dog to return the bumper will take training- getting an adult, never fetched, dog to bring something back means you look silly making a huge big deal about it being brought back. Maybe trade a carrot or some other low cal food for it and then throw bumper again. Whatever you do, make returning the thrown object a huge big deal.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

doggymom said:


> suggestions on how I can get my girl interested in chasing a ball and/or toy & returning it to you. She has never had an interest in chasing a ball even when she was a puppy.


Unfortunately some retrievers have no prey drive, which is at the root of the retrieving instinct. Even puppies that start out with a desire to retrieve have to be trained to do it properly. 
With your older girl you can try getting her excited about her favorite toy and tossing it a few feet. If you succeed in getting her to pick it up, immediately make a big fuss and call her. If she doesn't come to you run away from her and hopefully she will chase you. If you she does return to you with the toy, throw it again immediately. This will show her that the game will continue, not end, when she returns.
If you do get her interested, go slow. Always stop while she is still enjoying it.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

Our Max never had much interest in retrieving anything on land. However, if he was in water, whether a lake, pool or ocean, he would retrieve his ball or floatie all day long--often 25-40 times in a row. So my advice is to get your dog into water and then see if she will retrieve. Max retrieving. Beach, Lake, Water Park.


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## JulesAK (Jun 6, 2010)

Dave, we have the same scenario with Maggie as you do with Max. She wasn't much interested in anything to play fetch with until we took her swimming. She will carry toys in her mouth all day long. If we throw them, she looks all sad and comes over and puts her chin on your arm  Throw something into the water and she happily head out to get it.
Jules


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## GoldenDude (Nov 5, 2016)

SRW said:


> Unfortunately some retrievers have no prey drive, which is at the root of the retrieving instinct. Even puppies that start out with a desire to retrieve have to be trained to do it properly.
> With your older girl you can try getting her excited about her favorite toy and tossing it a few feet. If you succeed in getting her to pick it up, immediately make a big fuss and call her. If she doesn't come to you run away from her and hopefully she will chase you. If you she does return to you with the toy, throw it again immediately. This will show her that the game will continue, not end, when she returns.
> If you do get her interested, go slow. Always stop while she is still enjoying it.


Very true about some dogs not having prey drive. Prey drive can absolutely be diminished through breeding. In the service world, a Golden would need to have enough prey drive to be motivated to learn to “get” dropped objects, but not have so much prey drive that distractibility (a disqualifying trait) becomes a problem, so prey drive is definitely a factor when selecting a dog for the breeding program. I would imagine in the rest of the breeding world, prey drive gets bred out through breeding practices that fail to account for it.

OP, you can also train the retrieve in ways that are comfortable for the dog. My rescue Golden does not like a hand near his mouth but he and I like to play fetch. So, I put out a white towel and taught him to drop the ball on the towel. I can then pick it up and throw it. He’s happy. I’m happy. We found a work around to his either inherited nature or learned fear of hands near his mouth.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

SRW said:


> Unfortunately some retrievers have no prey drive, which is at the root of the retrieving instinct. Even puppies that start out with a desire to retrieve have to be trained to do it properly.
> With your older girl you can try getting her excited about her favorite toy and tossing it a few feet. If you succeed in getting her to pick it up, immediately make a big fuss and call her. If she doesn't come to you run away from her and hopefully she will chase you. If you she does return to you with the toy, throw it again immediately. This will show her that the game will continue, not end, when she returns.
> If you do get her interested, go slow. Always stop while she is still enjoying it.


What do you do if the dog has no concept of picking up her favorite toy or doesn't have a favorite toy? 

What do you do if instead of amping up when she returns and you immediately re-throw.... she loses motivation and starts shutting down?


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Megora said:


> What do you do if the dog has no concept of picking up her favorite toy or doesn't have a favorite toy?
> 
> What do you do if instead of amping up when she returns and you immediately re-throw.... she loses motivation and starts shutting down?


Move on to something else. If you can't make retrieving fun for the dog there is no point.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

SRW said:


> Move on to something else. If you can't make retrieving fun for the dog there is no point.


There is a way to really hotwire a nonexistent retrieve and make it exciting and rewarding for the dog. But it does involve more steps than the "getcha-gotcha tease" and short tosses to motivate the dog. It just requires different handling to build that retrieve. And more discipline on your part not to accept a poor or incomplete retrieve. <= That's something that should be clear right from the start with a pup or young dog who you are starting to train everything to. 

That's how you get a dog who is quivering with excitement over his retrieve and needs "self-control" training to keep him from breaking before released/sent. That's regardless of what was already there. Biggest thing I had an OTCH person tell me when I quibbled about training my dog to fetch (I told her, "I have a retriever, I don't have to do that!") was regardless of what we had, the dogs still had to be taught to retrieve so they would retrieve any time sent because they knew it was their job - vs retrieving because they want to. This OTCH person told me that sometimes you have a dog who is so stressed out in a trial environment that no matter what instincts he has to retrieve, he might not do it... and that's something you want to avoid while shaping that retrieve so it's as unbreakable as possible.....

Most people are not disciplined, clear, and clean when training retrieves though and a really good retrieving dog can go to pot real fast. <= Saying that with experience.  I know what happened with that first golden and the mistakes we made - and watching at classes over all the years, I've seen people make the same mistakes. They are pretty common. It all goes into the "don't ask your dog for the same thing twice, because he'll learn you'll ask twice" camp. Dogs learn very quickly to blow off retrieves, to drop retrieves, to play keep away, and so on. Because the owner teaches them to do so. 

That's aside the point. Best exercise for an obese dog is swimming + steady regular long walks every day. And less food.


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## Howler (Feb 4, 2021)

SRW said:


> Unfortunately some retrievers have no prey drive, which is at the root of the retrieving instinct.


I found the history interesting. There is no way to know when retrieving first became a thing and it may date back to wild men hunting with spears and companion wolves.

Recorded history shows hunters with inaccurate muzzle-loaded guns chose very large dogs for retrieving (Newfoundlands and such like) because those dogs needed track wounded prey over mixed terrain, and then be strong enough to carry the exhausted animal back to the hunter.

As hunting weapons improved the prey ran shorter distances such that faster and slimmer retrievers became advantageous to hunters. Our contemporary breeds (e.g. Golden, Flat Coat, Lab, etc.) emerged in the late 19th Century. Taking a look at 19th Century guns shows the hunter's weapons were unwieldy and much less accurate than contemporary hunting weapons.

Today's precision hunting rifles and better hunter training should result in a quick kill; an easy job for a Working Cocker Spaniel or similarly small gun dog. The changing times has relegated Golden Retrievers (and their cousins) to participating for show rather than out of necessity.

My point is that even working Golden Retriever needs a lot of recreational activities because there is just not enough work for them to do in the modern world.


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## Howler (Feb 4, 2021)

Megora said:


> Dogs learn very quickly to blow off retrieves, to drop retrieves, to play keep away, and so on. Because the owner teaches them to do so.


This concerns me. My puppy will retrieve indoors but not outside because the incentive is wrong - he just wants to run. Indoor retrieving creates a path through an otherwise boring space and that gives him a reason to run indoors. The same constraint does not apply outdoors where he can just run any which way he chooses. I throw a ball and he runs in the right direction, he might even stop and sniffs the ball, and then carries on running...


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Howler said:


> Today's precision hunting rifles and better hunter training should result in a quick kill; an easy job for a Working Cocker Spaniel or similarly small gun dog. The changing times has relegated Golden Retrievers (and their cousins) to participating for show rather than out of necessity.


I'm going to guess you don't hunt.



Howler said:


> This concerns me. My puppy will retrieve indoors but not outside because the incentive is wrong - he just wants to run. Indoor retrieving creates a path through an otherwise boring space and that gives him a reason to run indoors. The same constraint does not apply outdoors where he can just run any which way he chooses. I throw a ball and he runs in the right direction, he might even stop and sniffs the ball, and then carries on running...


If your pup retrieves indoors he will outside as well.
Let him explore and investigate outdoors. When he pauses to look back and see where you are, toss the ball. Make a big fuss over him, let him carry the ball a little and be proud of himself. Just do this a couple times each day at first. Make the retrieves the best part of the day and leave him wanting more. Before long he will probably be obsessed with retrieving.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

Logan wouldn't at first (when he was much younger), so I took him to our hallway upstairs -- long, narrow, and no distractions. Once he did it there -- bringing it back to me for a treat, we started spreading out the reward & I played with him and acted excited each time he brought it back & tossed again -- and then we moved outdoors and voila! I taught him to return it and drop it into my hand. Another thing that gets them excited about it is to put them in a sit in heel position beside you and tell them to wait when you toss it. Let them wait a few to five seconds and then say "Get It!" (or whatever you say) really animated. I do that more to teach forward focus.

Oh, and this is probably something you know, but once you get him fetching the ball, you can use a Chuck-It in a big space and get much more distance if he's fine off leash.

I enjoy going outside and having him retrieve in our pool. He loves it too. It gets too hot here in the summer on a lot of days for walks or running around playing outside. We can keep at it for quite a while also. Of course, the ocean is wonderful also.

When my last Golden was diagnosed with elbow dysplasia, he really slowed down. I was so thankful for the swimming option. He couldn't swim as long as before, however, and I controlled his weight via caloric intake also.

If your dog is just now on the meds for two weeks and is dropping weight -- even if slowly -- at least he's dropping weight. I wouldn't want it to happen so quickly it's uncomfortable for him as far as hunger is concerned.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

For anyone that thinks retrieving is not exercise unless it is in water. You are more than welcome to come train with me anytime. Just send a PM and I'll give you directions.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Howler, not sure how old your puppy is but using a long line to help train the retrieve along with a special retrieving dummy that is ONLY used for retrieving can help immensely. Keep the retrieves short distances and use the long line to keep him from doing what ever the heck he wants. Just do a 2 or 3 retrieves per session and stop the game BEFORE he loses interest. I saw your post about the shoes, your dog is extremely intelligent - he will quickly figure out that returning to you with the bumper is the way to keep the game going. As he gets older you can increase the distance and the length of the session. Also begin having him return to sit at heel before throwing again, if you do this as he gets older and are consistent you will have a very well mannered dog who give the bumper back and you don't have to wrestle it away from him. Use your voice to encourage him and let him know how happy he makes you when he retrieves. Finding a retrieving club to join and get basics can help and you may find you really enjoy the people. I don't hunt but I love training and watching the dogs do what they were bred for. It's pretty amazing. And retrieving whether on land or water is wonderful exercise and if the dog is properly trained you will have a way of exercising him any time and pretty much any place for life.


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## davmar77 (May 5, 2017)

Maybe it's that new breed. The Golden recliner.


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

davmar77 said:


> Maybe it's that new breed. The Golden recliner.


Unfortunately that is pretty much true and some consider it a good thing.


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## Howler (Feb 4, 2021)

doggymom said:


> Just a quick question to ask if anybody has any suggestions on how I can get my girl interested in chasing a ball and/or toy & returning it to you. She has never had an interest in chasing a ball even when she was a puppy. The extra exercise would be beneficial in helping speed her weight loss. We are walking 2 times a day and she's been on her thyroid.medicine for 2 weeks. The weight is slowly starting to drop. Interested in hearing your thoughts. TU


My approach with most commands is to start small and build up. We went through a bad patch where Murphy was pretending to be deaf, and we actually believed him - the vet did too! We called his bluff though by holding a treat hostage and rolling the ball a couple of feet. We also held his dinner hostage, and gradually his hearing came back!



SRW said:


> When he pauses to look back and see where you are, toss the ball. Make a big fuss over him, let him carry the ball a little and be proud of himself. Just do this a couple times each day at first. Make the retrieves the best part of the day and leave him wanting more. Before long he will probably be obsessed with retrieving.


Will try this and report back


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

SRW said:


> For anyone that thinks retrieving is not exercise unless it is in water. You are more than welcome to come train with me anytime. Just send a PM and I'll give you directions.


Like in fields, big land, open space....?  I'd bring my dogs and they'd get lots of exercise running around whether I send them to retrieve or not.

But lots of people want to throw a tennis ball around their yard. That's NOT exercise.
And oh hey, it's not what this breed is about either.


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## Howler (Feb 4, 2021)

Megora said:


> ... lots of people want to throw a tennis ball around their yard. That's NOT exercise.


If the dog is exerting itself, why is it not exercise?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Howler said:


> If the dog is exerting itself, why is it not exercise?


Is the dog exerting himself?


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## SRW (Dec 21, 2018)

Howler said:


> If the dog is exerting itself, why is it not exercise?


It is, at least much more walking on lead. You want to be careful about throwing short uncontrolled retrieves. For energetic dogs there is a high risk of injury when they turn and scramble for a retrieve from an awkward position.

You need to see field trial dogs run land setups to appreciate the level of energy they use on land marks. The same dog that runs all day upland hunting will be exhausted after a training session with a total of 7 to 10 marks and or blinds.The mental challenges of good training setups are taxing for a dog as well. 
Dogs that are in good shape can physically run more than that in a day but too many long days in a row will take a toll on them.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

SRW said:


> It is, at least much more walking on lead. You want to be careful about throwing short uncontrolled retrieves. For energetic dogs there is a high risk of injury when they turn and scramble for a retrieve from an awkward position.
> 
> You need to see field trial dogs run land setups to appreciate the level of energy they use on land marks. The same dog that runs all day upland hunting will be exhausted after a training session with a total of 7 to 10 marks and or blinds.The mental challenges of good training setups are taxing for a dog as well.
> Dogs that are in good shape can physically run more than that in a day but too many long days in a row will take a toll on them.


SRW, I completely agree with this.

First point - is why I strongly suggest that anyone who gets this breed have some place for these dogs to run. Because walking on lead has got to be miserable for a dog that has built up energy. I've walked my baby nephews and nieces around the block (about 1/2 mile) and OMG that's sheer misery. And I think that golden retrievers who naturally have 2 or 3x the stride length as the average dog owner feel the same way.

For my dogs to burn off energy on a short walk - I would have to jog the whole time. Me doing a light jog sets my dogs at an easy trotting gait. Me walking pulls them back into a waddly pace. 

Second - I've seen dogs being worked for field. Even the retrieves they do to "loosen up" - that definitely is something of note. Throwing a tennis ball around the backyard? Nope. And with a dog that is out of shape or whatnot, there is a risk of serious injury. Even a field dog who has the titles to show it - can get seriously injured while doing short retrieves in a small space where they are doing sharp turns or stops.


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## Mosaic (Oct 22, 2020)

Interesting discussion! Here is a game that may help: 



In short, you sit on the floor facing and close to the corner of a wall. Dog is in front of you. Sit in such a way that you block the dog in a little so dog naturally comes back to you. You chuck a treat into the corner, dog gets it, then dog gets a treat for turning round and returning to you. in this way you are forming the chase/return behaviour of a retreive. Once you have played this for a while, start substituting a toy 

my pup adores retrieving so i have only played this game a little but i thought it made sense as a way to learn!


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## CCoopz (Jun 2, 2020)

Max's Dad said:


> Our Max never had much interested in retrieving anything on land. However, if he was in water, whether a lake, pool or ocean, he would retrieve his ball or floatie all day long--often 25-40 times in a row. So my advice is to get your dog into water and then see if she will retrieve. Max retrieving. Beach, Lake, Water Park.
> View attachment 882349
> View attachment 882350
> View attachment 882351


Yep our Teddy is the same. Water based retrieving he can and will retrieve. Very motivated to do so. 

Land based is a different story. A lot of the time he looks at you like you why did you throw that, now you gotta go get it you idiot!

However, when he is bursting with energy at the start of a walk he likes the ball thrown 2 or max 3 times. But he doesn’t bring it back to us. He runs around with it till a sent catches his interest and he drops it.
We have found that further into a walk he can become interested in the ball again for 5 minutes max if you kick it. That seems to get his prey drive going much more than throwing. But again he doesn’t bring it back to us. 

We adopted him at 18 months. I think he needed to be trained to retrieve much earlier in his relationship with balls/toys.

As interestingly when we adopted him he didn’t swim! His head went under the first time he attempted to go out further in the river. We think he’d never had the opportunity. So as soon as he could swim safely we introduced and trained him to swim retrieve bumper like floating toys.


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## Heideana (Feb 27, 2021)

Haha! Our last Golden Girl was never really interested in retrieving from puppyhood onward. She’d retrieve a ball for a couple of tries and then use retrieving as an excuse to sniff things along the way. That or go to the ball and try to bounce it back to you as best she could with a look as if to say “you’re turn” to catch the ball. I was probably a bad parent as I just assumed it was her personality and decided she enjoyed sniffing walks more than bouncing the ball...


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## Jangala (Aug 31, 2020)

doggymom said:


> Just a quick question to ask if anybody has any suggestions on how I can get my girl interested in chasing a ball and/or toy & returning it to you. She has never had an interest in chasing a ball even when she was a puppy. The extra exercise would be beneficial in helping speed her weight loss. We are walking 2 times a day and she's been on her thyroid.medicine for 2 weeks. The weight is slowly starting to drop. Interested in hearing your thoughts. TU


Hello,
Same story with my ten month old, just not interested. Now, finally he is retrieving a frisbee and playing with the ball. What helped us make this transition was I think playing with another dog who retrieved and he watched and then our family making retrieving fun with some tug of war. This can back fire as then you have to teach "drop" but I am doing that with a waffle ball which when he drops gets a treat in it--so working brilliantly,


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## ComeBackShane (Mar 20, 2021)

nolefan said:


> Howler, not sure how old your puppy is but using a long line to help train the retrieve along with a special retrieving dummy that is ONLY used for retrieving can help immensely.
> <snip>


These lines are often called "check cords." The best cords play out smoothly and do not snag (easily) on brush, trees, and much else in the environment. Good check cords do not have handles or loops on the end in order to reduce snagging. Most float and are brightly colored. They come in lengths of 15-200 feet. Thirty to fifty feet is about where I find my limits on keeping all of that cord well managed. Lastly, with a big fast dog, wear heavy leather work gloves (your friends at the dog park will be impressed). Grabbing a line that is playing out at full speed with a bare hand can lead to some nasty burns. That said, the check cord is a great tool to use while your gaining confindence in a dog's recall. You can find check cords on-line. "Bird dog" and hunting dog sites sell the cords and the bumpers.


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## kikis_retrieving_service (Mar 29, 2021)

doggymom said:


> Just a quick question to ask if anybody has any suggestions on how I can get my girl interested in chasing a ball and/or toy & returning it to you. She has never had an interest in chasing a ball even when she was a puppy. The extra exercise would be beneficial in helping speed her weight loss. We are walking 2 times a day and she's been on her thyroid.medicine for 2 weeks. The weight is slowly starting to drop. Interested in hearing your thoughts. TU


I haven't tried it myself, but Puppy Primer has a pretty detailed chapter on how to teach your dog how to play fetch - may be worth trying?


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## Star Thibodeaux (Jan 4, 2020)

I just came across this the other day. Best of luck to you and your pup!!








Teaching Dogs to Fetch - Eukanuba Sporting Dog


Some commands like ‘come’ and ‘sit’ are one-step processes and are easy to teach. They set the stage for more complex training such as the ‘fetch’ command. ‘Fetch’ is a perfect next step that builds on your training foundation.




www.eukanubasportingdog.com







doggymom said:


> Just a quick question to ask if anybody has any suggestions on how I can get my girl interested in chasing a ball and/or toy & returning it to you. She has never had an interest in chasing a ball even when she was a puppy. The extra exercise would be beneficial in helping speed her weight loss. We are walking 2 times a day and she's been on her thyroid.medicine for 2 weeks. The weight is slowly starting to drop. Interested in hearing your thoughts. TU


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

ComeBackShane said:


> These lines are often called "check cords." The best cords play out smoothly and do not snag (easily) on brush, trees, and much else in the environment. Good check cords do not have handles or loops on the end in order to reduce snagging. Most float and are brightly colored. They come in lengths of 15-200 feet. Thirty to fifty feet is about where I find my limits on keeping all of that cord well managed. Lastly, with a big fast dog, wear heavy leather work gloves (your friends at the dog park will be impressed). Grabbing a line that is playing out at full speed with a bare hand can lead to some nasty burns. That said, the check cord is a great tool to use while your gaining confindence in a dog's recall. You can find check cords on-line. "Bird dog" and hunting dog sites sell the cords and the bumpers.


Awesome advice and got me thinking that in addition to gloves, boots or a sport sneaker and heavy socks that cover your ankles are a good idea as well - a rope burn from a running dog will be pretty bad if you ever make a mistake and have the line wrap around your ankle during training.


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## StarBright (Nov 11, 2015)

doggymom said:


> Just a quick question to ask if anybody has any suggestions on how I can get my girl interested in chasing a ball and/or toy & returning it to you. She has never had an interest in chasing a ball even when she was a puppy. The extra exercise would be beneficial in helping speed her weight loss. We are walking 2 times a day and she's been on her thyroid.medicine for 2 weeks. The weight is slowly starting to drop. Interested in hearing your thoughts. TU


Look up YouTube videos on clicker training, the clicked retrieve. I think that would be the best way to teach her to enjoy the retrieving game.


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## Howler (Feb 4, 2021)

I used beef as they exchange, and I make Murphy smell the toy so that he knows how to find it. Even Murphy will retrieve in exchange for a chunk of beef.


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