# training today (really really long)



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Geez, we do so much in a session with Dan I have a hard time remembering all of it by the time I get back home!
Started in the cheating pond. No idea what this is called, I call it lining although some people seem to call it some sort of blinds, but it doesn't really matter. Dan puts 2 piles of bumpers out across the pond, marks them with a white stake. We get Tito out of the truck, take him to the opposite side of the cheating pond, and Dan sends him to one pile or the other. Just sends him across a bunch of times. We're tightening up the distance between the two stakes now, so he has to differentiate which pile he's heading toward. The stakes are about 15 feet apart now. The pond is pretty small, but the banks are pretty steep and he can't see what's on the shore until he gets on the shore. Mixed bag with this, he took the wrong line a couple of times. 
A little bit of water T work, no major problems there. Also some swim-by, Tito seems to have a basic understanding of staying in the water and swimming on past Dan to the other side shore. I guess we're making progress although sometimes it doesn't feel like it because there's just so much to learn.
On to the channel, did a couple of channel swims to a pile at the end of the channel. It's a pretty long swim, and he still doesn't show any inclination to cheat it, so that's good. Always follow channel swims with in-and-out drills, those went well.
Next some land work. We did some split casting, he's increasing the distance quite a bit which means now the angle between the two piles is getting fairly small. Also we were in a new location, so the picture was a bit different. The real big difference, though, is that Dan is now letting him get almost all the way to the pole before he sits him, about 5 yards away, and casts him over to the other pole. Tito did fine on the lining part, but took the wrong casts on the casting a couple of times. Dan says that's because he's so close to the pole he's made a commitment in his mind (especially since he's just been lined to it 2 or 3 times) to head to that pole. (For homework this week I"m supposed to do a lot of the split casting, in different locations, at more distance, stopping him very close to the pole he was sent to). 
Dan introduced the come-in retrieve for the first time, and Tito had no problem with that concept. Seems sort of intuitive. 
After that the birds came out, although they were dead birds this week. We did some blinds of some sort or another across the pond with the birds. Dan had his assistant take the birds and drop them in moderate cover on the other side of the pond, one by each of 3 stakes, the stakes were pretty far apart so differentiating the line wasn't a real task here. Then Dan sent Tito over to the birds one at a time. There were decoys in the water across the pond right at the exit points, which Tito glanced at but then ignored. 
Finally, he sent him for one of the stakes and when he was about halfway there, whistle stopped him and cast him to another one instead. Much to my surprise, Tito had no problem with it at all.
Which led us into a conversation about why that is, since I don't always get that kind of response from him.
Dan says that it has to do with how committed he is to the line he's on, and reminded me of what we're doing on land. If he is only partially committed to the line (as in, only halfway out) it should, at this point in training, be pretty easy to stop him and cast him in another direction. Which in fact it is. He responds quickly and correctly. 
But when he's totally mentally committed, it's harder to turn him off the line and re-direct him. That makes total sense to me, and I'm going to stop him and cast him sooner when we do our water practice. 
A little Tito-ism....there's a cement bridge that crosses a narrow part of one of the ponds, the pond is only about 40 feet wide there. We walk across the bridge. Tito, without fail, jumps in and swims across instead. Dan always laughs and says, "I'm never, ever going to stop you from doing THAT, big guy!" One thing I am SO very lucky is that Tito loves, loves, loves the water!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Great learning...for me! That makes total sense about the commitment. Tito is doing so well, I can't wait until you run him again, he is going to knock their socks off!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

you may be waiting a LONG time before he runs in anything again....he's just not ready yet with the cold blinds!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Oh, I know. But when he does...WATCH OUT! He'll show those Labs a thing or two!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks, I'm hoping some of the people we met at Lab National a couple years back get a chance to see my "pretty little swamp collie" run some day, and get to see that I'm not afraid to "get all that purty fur dirty".


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Wow - sounds like Tito is doing very, very well  And he kept his butt on the ground?

I cannot wait for him to start running either


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Ummmmm,
Your son did bring your camera back right??
So while you were watching.............
If we train with a group this weekend I'm going to try to get some of knucklehead.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

yes, the camera is here and I know how to use it now! But to be honest, I'm so busy watching and learning (although there was one point in which I should have had the camera turned on DAN,who was doing a silly little dance trying to get Tito to autocast) that I don't want to be messing with the camera. My simple brain can't handle doing all those things at one time!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

KNUCKLEHEAD????? Already??? At 4 months old????


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> KNUCKLEHEAD????? Already??? At 4 months old????


Right now it's a term of endearment. Later it will be an accurate description. He will grow into it.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> yes, the camera is here and I know how to use it now! But to be honest, I'm so busy watching and learning (although there was one point in which I should have had the camera turned on DAN,who was doing a silly little dance trying to get Tito to autocast) that I don't want to be messing with the camera. My simple brain can't handle doing all those things at one time!


Tripod! Then set it and forget it. Well, don't actually forget it, but forget it until the end of the training session, then remember it.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

DNL2448 said:


> Tripod! Then set it and forget it. Well, don't actually forget it, but forget it until the end of the training session, then remember it.


:appl::appl::appl::appl::appl::appl::appl::appl:


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

no no, you have to understand, Dan is ADHD. He moves around so much there's no way my little cheap camera ($150 kodak) would capture what he's doing unless I'm constantly moving it!!!
(and knowing me, I really WOULD forget it and then we'd be driving around in the 4 wheeler trying to remember which training field I left it in....he has 1000 acres, and we move around a LOT!)


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Put an orange stake on both sides of it!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

and then send Tito on a cold blind to find it....


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

If you think he can handle the tripod on the way back???


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

only if it's in the water.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Okay, rig it so you can wear it around your neck the you will always have the shot!


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Reading this post makes my head swim! <in a good way! LOL!> 
Its kinda like listening to folks speaking a different language....it sounds beautiful and I wish I was more fluent as to understand all the nuance!
Every now and again I catch a phrase that I know....but for the most part I just nod my head with a goofy look on my face! 

Keep posting...I can only hope more and more sinks in! ;-)


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

oh Mary, I am so new and just learning all this, too. You'll notice in my posts I often say I don't know what it's really called, or I have no idea what people call what we're doing, etc. But it's a blast, no matter what the real names are!


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

That camera is waterproof so problem solved!!!!!!!!!!
If not they make waterproof cases!!
Gotta check and see if I have popcorn for next week.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Mary, if you want to know just ask. If we don't know the answer we'll make one up that sounds good!!!!
LOL someone on here will be able to explain.
This stuff doesn't come to anybody by osmosis.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Get a hat cam!!! Then when you turn your head to listen to Dan or watch Tito the camera is pointed in the right direction. 

What a great session. I wish I could come train with you... wouldn't that be cool! I could video your session and you could video mine. Ok Gabby is WAY below Tito... but she can watch and learn.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I told Dan that you would come and introduce yourself and say hi to him this weekend, so be sure you do!! I warned him that I tell everyone he is second only to God, so he has a reputation to uphold, LOL. 
I LOVE the hat cam idea!! That's exactly what I need!




Maxs Mom said:


> Get a hat cam!!! Then when you turn your head to listen to Dan or watch Tito the camera is pointed in the right direction.
> 
> What a great session. I wish I could come train with you... wouldn't that be cool! I could video your session and you could video mine. Ok Gabby is WAY below Tito... but she can watch and learn.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I plan to get over to finished as soon as I can to look for him!!! I want to tell him I learn a lot from your lessons... ok nothing I can do yet but I still learn. LOL


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> I told Dan that you would come and introduce yourself and say hi to him this weekend, so be sure you do!! I warned him that I tell everyone he is second only to God, so he has a reputation to uphold, LOL.
> I LOVE the hat cam idea!! That's exactly what I need!


I know you have these three things:

1. Hat
2. Camera
3. Duct Tape

Put those three together and you have a *HAT CAM*


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

******* hat cam! Can you say patent pending!!!!


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Barb, I can't wait for the first installment of Camo Hat Cam. You have Camo Duct Tape right?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

hahahahaha I can see me with my camera taped to my ducks unlimited camo hat....Holly, where would I buy camo duct tape??? LOLOL


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

If you can't find it we will send you some. I will look for it today. Better yet what color is your DU hat?? So we can match it.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Which color do you prefer, Desert camo,Digital Camo, or Realwoods????

Tape Brothers.com - Buy it Buy Roll or Case!!

If you don't like duct tape.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> you may be waiting a LONG time before he runs in anything again....he's just not ready yet with the cold blinds!


It appears that Tito is still running a ton of repeat/pattern type blinds. It will be a longer time yet before he's competent at cold blinds unless he begins to progress through transition in cold blind-type drills. The mental framework of repeats & cold blinds is very different. Good luck.

EvanG


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

and how will I get Tito to wear the hat? hmmm????



Radarsdad said:


> Which color do you prefer, Desert camo,Digital Camo, or Realwoods????
> 
> Tape Brothers.com - Buy it Buy Roll or Case!!
> 
> ...


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I guess so, most of what everyone else seems to call repeat or pattern type blinds I seem to call lining drills, so I don't really know what he's running. I just do what my pro tells me to do! 
My most awesome, incredible GRCA field committee mentor has sent me some fantastic drills to do, but I'm waiting for the go-ahead from my pro. I figure he sees the dog every week. He keeps saying we need to let Tito set the pace for training, not us set the pace for Tito. 




EvanG said:


> It appears that Tito is still running a ton of repeat/pattern type blinds. It will be a longer time yet before he's competent at cold blinds unless he begins to progress through transition in cold blind-type drills. The mental framework of repeats & cold blinds is very different. Good luck.
> 
> EvanG


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Sounds like a good day! 

Now, is that typical eventually putting the blinds so close together (15 feet), or is that something that just Dan does? I am wondering why you would want them so tight?


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Power steering!


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> I guess so, most of what everyone else seems to call repeat or pattern type blinds I seem to call lining drills, so I don't really know what he's running.


Maybe I can help clarify, if you don't mind. Believe me, I'm only trying to help.

*Pattern-type blinds* occupy a broad category of non-falls. Any kind of repeat and/or pre-identified blind is a 'pattern' blind. Sight blinds, blinds with white markers, blinds that are pre-identified piles, and so on fit into this category.

*A cold blind* is separate from pattern-type blinds in this important way; the dog does not know the end from the beginning. There is no white marker at the blind. No one has in anyway pre-identified it. The dog, therefore, is totally reliant on you (the handler) to get him there. This is a very different set of mental processes than any blind on which the end is known from the beginning.

In transitioning away from the crutches of pattern blinds, we move in a sequence of progressive blinds from known to unknown destinations. The best transitional drill on earth for this is Bird Boy Blinds because they actually begin with a few sight blinds (visible white bumpers), and proceed gradually to longer blinds & orange bumpers. Does this make sense?

EvanG


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Well it helped me! Thanks.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Dan does a lot of that kind of stuff both on land and in the water. I know that part of it is that the dog needs to learn to differentiate lines on a blind; just heading out in the general direction doesn't constitute running a good blind. Having just one pole, while it teaches a basic concept, doesn't really teach the dog to hold a line. 
But there was more to it than that. Dan actually gave me an explanation this week of why he uses the two poles so close together on the water, which by now I have forgotten. 
He is very, very exacting in the performance he demands from the dogs. I've watched him work his dogs that he runs in the UKC Grand hunt, and these dogs are able to take a line over 100 yards to a blind, and then take another line to a blind that's over 100 yards away and much less than 20 yards from the original blind. It's amazing to see.




GoldenSail said:


> Sounds like a good day!
> 
> Now, is that typical eventually putting the blinds so close together (15 feet), or is that something that just Dan does? I am wondering why you would want them so tight?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks Evan, it does make sense. But I don't see the difference (not trying to be obtuse here, I really don't understand) between sending your dog to a pile of bumpers identified with a white marker, and a lining drill. You line your dog up, you send him. A lining drill. Same with a pre-identified pile, to me that's just a lining drill. Dog is working on running a straight line to a pile that he knows is there. Seriously, why is that even called a blind? 
The cold blinds I understand totally. The dog is running "blind" toward something that he has no clue where it is. He has to trust you to know, and has to make that leap of faith to understand that YOU know where it is, and he does not. Tito has not made that leap of faith yet. If he's in short cover, he will trust me. But when he hits heavier cover, his *hunting gene* triggers and he trusts himself to find the bird, not me. 
Can you tell me briefly what a bird boy blind is? I think we may do some of those with Dan's assistant.
Thanks!




EvanG said:


> Maybe I can help clarify, if you don't mind. Believe me, I'm only trying to help.
> 
> *Pattern-type blinds* occupy a broad category of non-falls. Any kind of repeat and/or pre-identified blind is a 'pattern' blind. Sight blinds, blinds with white markers, blinds that are pre-identified piles, and so on fit into this category.
> 
> ...


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> and how will I get Tito to wear the hat? hmmm????


I don't think the general consensus here supports Tito wearing the hat. :doh:
I believe the identity of the one to wear the hat has been already specified.

What color camo tape was that???


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Don't forget the twigs and leaves in the hat...


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> I guess so, most of what everyone else seems to call repeat or pattern type blinds I seem to call lining drills, so I don't really know what he's running.


Lining drills are designed to improve actual lines. Pattern blinds establish going on non-falls, but don't really have a strong, consistent influence on lining. And they shouldn't. They aren't cold blinds.

Lining drills usually consist of many cold blinds, and consist of focused, specific factors, like slots. Gradient blinds are lining drills. Chair drills are lining drills. Split drills are lining drills. Chinese drills are lining drills.





 
EvanG


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks for the video, Evan, I think you posted that before but my feeble brain forgot it. Is the bird boy a visual aid to the dog, or just so that you don't have to keep walking out and putting bumpers down? Does the bird boy vary his distance from the bumper so that the dog doesn't figure out that the bumper is always a certain distance from the bird boy (as my boy became "winger wise" real fast, running to the winger and then on a straight line 20 yards heading away from it!). 
So if you send a dog on a pattern blind, you don't demand a good line on the way out? Dan does, which is probably another reason why I'm confused. The line is almost as important as finding the bumper. If he sends Tito on a line on a pattern blind and Tito does a loopy banana heading out, he's not going to accept that. 
I don't know the names of many lining drills, but the few that I know of don't involve cold blinds (like wagon wheel, for instance), which even further adds to my confusion between lining drills and non-cold blinds.
Geez, there are a lot of different names for a lot of different drills! I think I'll just stick to calling them "this is what I was told to do, no idea what it's called"


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

> Geez, there are a lot of different names for a lot of different drills! I think I'll just stick to calling them "this is what I was told to do, no idea what it's called


One of the reasons why it is better to stick with one program and or progression. Each step or drill builds on the other. Mixing programs is a good way to make holes because of missing steps in training.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> Thanks for the video, Evan, I think you posted that before but my feeble brain forgot it. Is the bird boy a visual aid to the dog, or just so that you don't have to keep walking out and putting bumpers down?


The bird boy is just for planting one cold blind at a time, but he allows your blinds to be planted on a course dictated by the trainer as you go. That allows the trainer to tailor the blinds for the dog as he/she reads them in the moment. What could be better?


hotel4dogs said:


> Does the bird boy vary his distance from the bumper so that the dog doesn't figure out that the bumper is always a certain distance from the bird boy (as my boy became "winger wise" real fast, running to the winger and then on a straight line 20 yards heading away from it!).


Yes. At the start of the drill the bird boy walks about ten paces from the bumper after planting. The dog is not to see him plant, or walk, so the first blind is down before the dog is brought to the line. The moment the dog picks up the bumper to return, the BB plants and moves.

As the blinds get longer the distance the BB walks increases a bit so the perception of separation between BB & bumper remains relatively constant. If at any time the dog begins to cue on the BB, or to run to him, that’s your cue that you’re allowing too little distance between BB & bumper, and are defeating the drill’s dynamics, rather than taking advantage of them. The dogs Ignore the BB when it’s run right, and that is easy to do.



hotel4dogs said:


> So if you send a dog on a pattern blind, you don't demand a good line on the way out?


I don’t nitpick meaningless aspects of training. If a dog runs a grossly deviated line (aka “banana” line) I handle or move up and simplify to get a straighter line. But picking on dogs over perfectly straight lines on pattern blinds defeats the scope and purpose of them. They are not, and should not be lining drills. What our goals are for pattern blinds is simply to get the dog going confidently to non-falls (non-marks), and learning to respond to cues associated with blind running. Along with that, some distance extension is usually accomplished. That’s really about it. If a dog is doing that reliably it’s time to transition to cold blinds.

There are better drills to teach diversion marks, so I rarely throw any marks in them. And I sure don’t beat developing dogs down emotionally because their lines aren’t straight yet. Real blinds won’t be repeats anyway.


hotel4dogs said:


> Dan does, which is probably another reason why I'm confused. The line is almost as important as finding the bumper. If he sends Tito on a line on a pattern blind and Tito does a loopy banana heading out, he's not going to accept that.


Picking on dogs about perfect lines during pattern work is a formula for a poor blind attitude. Some dogs will forgive such needless pressuring, but being lucky and being smart are different things. Be smart. Get them rolling and having fun on blinds. Gradually sharpen their lines later on cold blinds & drills.


hotel4dogs said:


> I don't know the names of many lining drills, but the few that I know of don't involve cold blinds (like wagon wheel, for instance), which even further adds to my confusion between lining drills and non-cold blinds.


There are actually 3 Wagon Wheel Drills:

1. Wagon Wheel lining drill (8 & 16 bumper)
2. Wagon Wheel casting drill; aka 8-handed casting
3. Two-hands Back Drill (right & left rotation Back Casting drill)

The one everyone seems to visualize when they see or hear “Wagon Wheel Drill” is the lining version. An interesting aspect to that is that the single tier, 8-bumper version isn’t really about lining so much as it is about movement on line with the handler; turning right & left to line up for blinds. It doesn’t really become a lining drill until the second tier is added (16-bumper drill), in which the dog splits the inner tier of whites to line to the outer tier of orange bumpers. But these are the most basic of lining drills, and deal only with initial lines.



hotel4dogs said:


> Geez, there are a lot of different names for a lot of different drills! I think I'll just stick to calling them "this is what I was told to do, no idea what it's called"


It’s worth learning about each of the proven drills and techniques as you go along. Dan sounds like a good dog person who could benefit greatly from a more up to date method. Who knows what he may accomplish with better technology? I’m glad you enjoy working with him. I wish you the best in your journey.

EvanG


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks for the comments and clarifications Evan.
I have to jump in in Dan's defense, everything that I relay is coming from a new person (me) who probably isn't conveying to you clearly what is being done, due to my limited knowledge. 
His track record of successful training, including not only training real hunting (meat) dogs for a living but also many, many GRHRCH dogs, speaks for itself. I believe his personal record was 7 of his 8 dogs passing the Grand. I don't think many trainers can make that claim. Last fall 3 of the 56 that passed were trained/handled by him. No small accomplishment. I've watched the dogs work, and you won't find better attitude anywhere. 
His methods evolve with each dog he trains, which is as it should be. In his own words, we let Tito set the pace for the training. What Tito needs at any given time isn't defined by a pre-set program cast in stone that you follow in a flowchart, it's defined by what Dan has seen Tito do or not do. I'm sure a lot of the drills we do don't have a formal name, because it's one of the "proven drills and techniques" that Dan has altered to meet the specific needs of my dog. 
Anyway, I know you have my best interests at heart and I thank you for the post.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Dan sounds like a good dog person who could benefit greatly from a more up to date method. Who knows what he may accomplish with better technology? I’m glad you enjoy working with him. I wish you the best in your journey.[/FONT][/COLOR]

EvanG[/QUOTE]

Your comment sounds a little unprofessional since you don't know Dan or his techniques other than bits and pieces here on the internet. Pretty obvious his techniques and training are actively titling dogs. Hard for me to imagine you can criticize his methods without seeing the dog,handler or trainer work. I think I remember you asking for one of his drills a while back. You of all people should understand the method should fit the individual dog. True, certain basic skills and drills are a standard but one size certainly does not fit all.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

Radarsdad said:


> *Dan sounds like a good dog person* who could benefit greatly from a more up to date method. Who knows what he may accomplish with better technology? I’m glad you enjoy working with him. I wish you the best in your journey.
> 
> EvanG
> 
> Your comment sounds a little unprofessional since you don't know Dan or his techniques ....


Pretty thin skinned assessment, thanks. I've read several entries made regarding Dan, and (again) he sounds like a good dog man. Having been in the sport for over 35 years, and having been mentored by two Hall of Fame trainers tends to provide some insight into core training philosophies. It would not be meanngful or fair to compare our records, as that is not the issue. I've only offered information and help.

Patterning and cold blinds each have a scope and purpose separate from each other. Just a tip in hopes of helping a new trainer to understand why my comments were originally made, not an indictment of anotther trainer. 

In our discussion I was asked the difference between pattern blinds and lining drills. In order to make that distinction it seemed best to spell out the definitions, and provide a clear contrast in their uses. My first mentor, the late D.L. Walters, patterned heavily - making his successful career in the 60's & 70's. He was a great trainer, and savy dog man.

My second mentor was the late Rex Carr, who not only trained dogs that won more national champioinships than anyone else is likely to live long enough to do, but also trained trainers who also won and are still winning nationals. Rex, in terms of a patterning trainer, could fairly be called a minialist; running patterns only briefly for the purposes stated previously. His logic and practices permeate the field competition world. 

That doesn't mean either he or I advocate the intellectually vacuous notion of "one size fits all". It means there is a reasoned progression in skill acquisition so the dogs learn more easily and fairly. Anyone not interested in that sort of thing is free to do as they wish. But when I state that there is a better way, it's not an insult to anyone, nor is it coming from thin air. I am first and foremost an advocate for dogs. I offer help on these forums hoping, most of all, that life in training will be fairer and more fulfilling for the dogs. Anything else is icing on the cake.

My best to Dan, hotel4dogs, and _all_ the dogs. Use the information, or not; it's up to you.

EvanG


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

> Pretty thin skinned assessment,


As was yours, I have had few mentors also since i started training my first Golden for field trials in 1975. And none would criticize a pro publicly on the internet without first at least knowing him and his dogs and or methods. But my mentors are busy training dogs and competing and don't have time to spend critiquing others on the internet. For personal and financial reasons.
I also am not qualifying myself on their laurels.


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

You do seen very good at missing the point. It wasn't a criticsm of the trainer. It was a commentary and observation of a single aspect of training. Perhaps you're simply determined not to get it.

EvanG


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Evan, it is really hard to interpret this in any way other than a derogatory comment about my pro. I'm assuming it's just one of those internet things that you didn't mean the way it sounds in written form.
But thank you for the information about the bird boy blinds, wagon wheel, etc. It was very helpful. 



EvanG said:


> Dan sounds like a good dog person *who could benefit greatly from a more up to date method. Who knows what he may accomplish with better technology?* I’m glad you enjoy working with him. I wish you the best in your journey.
> 
> EvanG


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Then you might express yourself in a different wording than you used to avoid sounding critical (and a bit demeaning) which it was. The OP's impression was that it was critical as I am sure it was to others. The meat of your post was informative and provided some clarity on the issue. The statement about Dan was unneccesary. Wish you the best.
Regards


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> Evan, it is really hard to interpret this in any way other than a derogatory comment about my pro. I'm assuming it's just one of those internet things that you didn't mean the way it sounds in written form.
> But thank you for the information about the bird boy blinds, wagon wheel, etc. It was very helpful.


You're welcome. And yes, I can see how it can be taken as derogatory. I can also see why it wouldn't. Over the years as trainers have offered me insight into better ideas, drills, or set ups than I was using I don't recall ever esteeming that as derogatory. But that's me. Thank God they did that for me! Roughly half of my method came from the ideas and practices of other trainers before me. My own drills and ideas were often built on those principles.

My apologies.

Evan


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

It's one of the drawbacks of internet communication. Sometimes things don't sound how they were meant to sound when they are written instead of spoken. Just one of those things.
Happy training!





EvanG said:


> You're welcome. And yes, I can see how it can be taken as derogatory. I can also see why it wouldn't. Over the years as trainers have offered me insight into better ideas, drills, or set ups than I was using I don't recall ever esteeming that as derogatory. But that's me. Thank God they did that for me! Roughly half of my method came from the ideas and practices of other trainers before me. My own drills and ideas were often built on those principles.
> 
> My apologies.
> 
> Evan


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