# Growling over Bone



## Kory P (Dec 23, 2007)

Last night Benny(3 months) was chewing a new raw hide bone. When I went to take it from him he snarled and growled at me. Right away I took him by the scruff and showed him I was not impressed. 
He seemed to get it, because we then practised "give it" for a couple of minutes without any issues. However, about an hour later I went to take the bone from him and he snapped worse than before. So I scruffed him at let it be known that it wasnt cool. 

After a time out in the crate(where he gave me the "soo sorry" look) we tried "give it nicely" again. A little while later my g/f gave it too him and got it back without any reaction, and I did it with no signs of resistance.

The real thing that baffels me is that the other night he was given the same bone at a friends place with another dog around and he didnt make a sound. In fact they both traded bones several times.

My question is what could have caused that reaction in my otherwise playful loving puppy? Do you think he got my point or should I expect another battle tonight?


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## Carraig (Jan 4, 2008)

It is puppy growing pains. He has something that is good and after a pleasant chew by himself, he's not willing to share. Before, he was given the bone in a dual dog setting and didn't know the difference. Now he does.

Hopefully your corrections have left an impression. He may continue to test you a bit, but don't over-react. Just take it away calmly and reinforce your status as alpha.

Have you been picking up his food dish while he is eating? That is often an object of possession as well. It might be a good idea to teach him that things taken away are returned if he is good. Just feed him a small portion, take up the bowl, put a little more in and then put it down again, etc until his meal is done.


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## Kory P (Dec 23, 2007)

Carraig said:


> Have you been picking up his food dish while he is eating? That is often an object of possession as well.


I have had no issues with anything up to this point. We have hand fed him, put our hand over the bowl to stop him for a sec to show our control, all with out any issue. he was the perfect gentleman with regards to food and treats. Thats why I am so concerned now.


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## Raihi (Jan 25, 2008)

I could have written this thread! ust the other night , our puppy (5 1/2 mos.) who always gave before growled when I put my hand on his paw when he had a new bone.. We took it from him, then gave it back.. and kept this up for the night til we were sure he got it.

I have taken his dish from him often while eating, just to be sure he would not have any food aggression issues.. He never seemed to mind me doing that.. so it struck me odd he did that with a bone.


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## Kory P (Dec 23, 2007)

I know, I was angry with him, but I was more confused at why?


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## My4Boys (Dec 14, 2007)

Baxter did this during the first week after we adopted him. I picked him up, and then tried to take a bone off of him, and he tried to bite me. I was so shocked and befuddled that I dropped him. (he did not get hurt) I was so depressed the next couple of days thinking I had adopted a demon dog as none of the dogs that I have ever owned had ever did this. Then I read something in a book about giving him a little treat (we used kibble or another small treat) when we wanted to take something from him so that he would associate our taking something from him with getting a treat. Over the course of a couple of weeks, he started giving things up w/o growling or biting without us having to give him a treat. But there are still times when he gets protective of a bone or treat that he is chewing, so then I try to reinforce the give/take theory again.

Good Luck.


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## norabrown (Jul 20, 2007)

Samson has done this. I would take it from him and put my hands all over it (putting my scent on it). Then I would let him chew on it while I held it. Then I would take it again. He's now 10 months and we still do this on occasion just to remind him that "it's mine!" and I've chosen to allow him to have it. LOL

Samson and Delilah occasionally growl at each other if one gets too close while the other is working on a bone. I stay out of it as long as it is just a warning growl. 

But they both better not growl at me or anyone else.

Keep it up....practice.


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## Kory P (Dec 23, 2007)

I know that when I get home from work today I will have to practice his manners. Also, it seemed like if I let him have it for too long, he got too into it, making it harder to get it from him. I guess it will be controled incriments until he knows better.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

OMG! Please stop scruffing him. It's making it worse, as you've already seen, and will continue to do do.

Trade for something wonderful and practice that often. You want to teach that your presence near his "goodie" isn't a threat. Also, with the food bowl, as you reach for the bowl, make sure you're dropping something better into the bowl as you reach.

If a dog has a problem with something, we have to TEACH HIM it's NOT A PROBLEM vs. just CORRECTING HIM for saying that he feels it's a problem.

If you keep taking the scruff shake/correction route, you'll lose in the end and it will become harder to rehab the dog.


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## Kory P (Dec 23, 2007)

The only time I scruffed him was when he got aggressive. When he didnt go ape S&*^ I would reward him with a treat and the bone back while giving him tons of praise. 
I am sorry but I cannot sit back and try to bargin with him when he is snarling. To me that is rewarding bad behaviour.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Kory P said:


> The only time I scruffed him was when he got aggressive. When he didnt go ape S&*^ I would reward him with a treat and the bone back while giving him tons of praise.
> I am sorry but I cannot sit back and try to bargin with him when he is snarling. To me that is rewarding bad behaviour.


Well, you yourself said that the second time you tried to get a bone from him, after having scruffed him the first time, the growling and snapping was worse.

I see it happen that way all the time. It's NOT uncommon for scruff-shaking and alpha rolling, etc. to make aggression problems worse.

You're not rewarding him with a treat. If you do it right, using the treat PREVENTS growling and snapping, so you're rewarding the ABSENCE of aggression and teaching the dog that there's nothing to be aggressive about.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

FlyingQuizini said:


> Well, you yourself said that the second time you tried to get a bone from him, after having scruffed him the first time, the growling and snapping was worse.
> 
> I see it happen that way all the time. It's NOT uncommon for scruff-shaking and alpha rolling, etc. to make aggression problems worse.
> 
> You're not rewarding him with a treat. If you do it right, using the treat PREVENTS growling and snapping, so you're rewarding the ABSENCE of aggression and teaching the dog that there's nothing to be aggressive about.


How do you handle a dog that is growling and snarling at you?


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

Lucky's mom said:


> How do you handle a dog that is growling and snarling at you?


Honestly, what I do is try and figure out what is causing the dog to growl or snap and work to change the emotional association. If I'm getting it right, I'm keeping the dog sub-threshold so that he doesn't feel the need to growl or snap. If I screw it up and I get the growl or snap, I abort what I'm doing as safely as possible, make a note of what went wrong and decide how to change my actions so that next time, I don't push the dog as far. Learning can't happen when the dog is in that state. You want the cortex portion of the brain working for you, not the limbic system. Fear and aggression is the limbic system.


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## Kory P (Dec 23, 2007)

Just to update on Benny, 
Yesterday when I got home I gave him the bone for a half an hour, then when I told him I wanted it , he looked at me and let it out of his mouth ( kept it between his paws). I rewarded him with some heavy praise and gave it back to him. 
I did this several times without any incident. It was even to the point when I could take the little pieces he had chewed from him. 

I think he got the point the night before.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

That's great, they just need to be shown what's expected.


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## Chelsea(NL) (May 8, 2007)

*Hello*

Hi,
Had the same issue with Chelsea...but she did grow out of it. Again we did let her know that we did not approve of growling and snapping. They seem to try and test the boundaries from time to time. 
Right now our issue is not listening when called...you'll probably go through this too.
Cheers


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## Kory P (Dec 23, 2007)

Chelsea(NL) said:


> Hi,
> Had the same issue with Chelsea...but she did grow out of it. Again we did let her know that we did not approve of growling and snapping. They seem to try and test the boundaries from time to time.
> Right now our issue is not listening when called...you'll probably go through this too.
> Cheers


I seriously don't know what it was that night, but he has not shown any sign of that behaviour since. He gives up his bones pretty easy now! Must have been a puppy brain fart lol!
I can see him not listening when being called, but the second I say the word "Treat" he comes running.


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## JenJackson (Dec 29, 2008)

*similar problem with dog growling at child and owner*

I am having the same problem with my 8 mth old dog, Jake. He growled at my 4 yr old daughter for walking by him while he was chewing a bone. and when i went to tell him no,and give me bone he then growled at me. 
he was sick the day before. i didn't feed him for 24 hrs(vet's advice). and I was shocked when i heard him growl at my daughter. I still don't know what to do. I yelled at him and he growled at me and he ran away and i locked him in his crate. he knew he was wrong. my main concern is -
will this be a problem in the future/will he be aggressive towards my daughter. she is an exceptional child who treats Jake with respect. I am just not sure if this is a red-flag that he will be aggressive towards us in the future. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I think if you have young children around, you should make it a practice to let your dog have his chew treats in a quiet undisturbed place, like his crate. That's safe for everyone.

I'll let others here give suggestions on how to work with him on this behavior. I just wanted to recomimend that you be careful in the meantime. Haha, like you didn't already know that, huh? 

I really don't think resource guarding (as in food aggression) generalizes easily into other types of aggression. Maybe I'm wrong on that but I don't see that pattern in my own dog. She has her moments when she lets it be known that she doesn't want you to take her bone, but she's not aggressive in any other form at all, ever, never. Bones are the only thing that I need to be careful with her about, as far as who else is around, especially children and other dogs.


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## Scubasteve198 (Jun 9, 2008)

You did good. You are the head dog. He will do what you allow. I had to learn not to be to nice to my dog. I got in trouble in in obedience class because I was to nice. We don't have to be mean, but we do have to be top dog in charge. I learned, you did good.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

To this day, when I need to take a bone away from Daisy, I'll distract her for a moment, kick the bone away from her with my foot and then pick it up. No conflict. No growling. No contest. I get the bone. 

Am I still "top dog?" Not sure I agree with that concept but it's a common one. It's just not one I've had to enforce in my home with my golden. We get along great, really.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

You have an adolescent dog who is resource guarding and a 4 year old child...
The two don't mix well...Personally I would pick up all the bones and any other toys that he covets and only offer them while he is crated...it is the safest thing to do immediately.

From the dogs Point of View...he wanted the bone....the child was seen as a threat to take the bone...you yelled....he left and you got the bone.....in his mind he was right - it was worth protecting...you wanted it enough to threaten him off it...
Yelling usually escalates the situation - doesn't do much to diffuse...

Stay calm...walk between the child and the dog - remove the child from any possible danger...if you feel as though the situation must be addressed at that moment...then trade up for the object...grab some cheese or meat from the fridge and lure him away from the object. 
Dont worry about him 'feeling' like he is getting away with something....he isnt...by being lured away he is actually learning that what he was coveting wasn't as valuable as he thought...that in reality you always have something more valuable... 

Long term...practice trading with toys of low value (that he likes, but doesnt LOVE) when the dog starts to love to trade, then start introducing higher valued items to learn to trade....


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## JenJackson (Dec 29, 2008)

Thank you very much for your replies. I really appreciate the feedback. I will take all of it into consideration.


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## JenJackson (Dec 29, 2008)

it blows my husbands mind that the dog did it. he thinks it's not in his nature........now we can take the same bone from him and he doesn't do anything......well my point is that he did do it. and obviously he saw our child and myself as a threat to his bone at that time. i am going to definitely work on the trade idea.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Jo Ellen said:


> I really don't think resource guarding (as in food aggression) generalizes easily into other types of aggression. Maybe I'm wrong on that but I don't see that pattern in my own dog.


Yeah, Lucky is the sweetest dog ever and I trust him as much as any dog. He simply doesn't get the chewies anymore. He doesn't do it with sticks or toys...just those darned rawhides and pig ears...


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