# Mini Goldendoodle?



## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

Sounds ridiculous... why not get a toy poodle...it'll probably be smarter.


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## goldhaven (Sep 3, 2009)

30lb golden???? Sounds like a comfort retriever not a golden. I looked around and this is what I found. 

Comfort Retrievers

http://www.goldendoodle.net/


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## AlanK (Jun 28, 2008)

Sadly I have many neighbors who would go for this. I am a prude grumpy old man any more when it comes to breeding any dog. Some people will never get past the cute puppy thing regardless of breeding practices. It is the world that we live in. Maybe I am the one who is wrong?


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

This is a fad and really, really bad breeding. They also charge ridiculously large prices for these mutts and call them designer dogs.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Melissa hit the nail on the head..... mutts. Really sad.


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Melissa hit the nail on the head..... mutts. Really sad.


Hey now, I have a mutt... he's cute! He wasn't no $1000+ though... heck he wasn't even $500 haha


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## toliva (Nov 24, 2011)

Mutts can be adorable, sweet dogs, but it's not ok to tout them as a "breed" or "designer dog." I see it all the time too.

We were at a dog-friendly function, and I saw a couple with 2 dogs, one was a lovely golden, and another, small dog, that looked like a mix. I said, "what a pretty golden you have!" and she goes "well, they are both goldens. This one," pointing to the small dog, "is a miniature golden." OMG. I just said they are both nice and moved on. Miniature Golden! goodness.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I've had and loved mutts too, but to pass them off as some special designer breed and charge tons of dough is wrong.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

That is horrible, and these breeders call themselves 'ethical breeders'. All they are doing is messing up two great breeds of dogs. 
I have a mutt also, I got him from a kill shelter. I have nothing against mixed breeds, but you should never purposely throw two well established breeds together with no other goal than to make money and cater to the the people that want a golden but not the size and often the furry mess of one.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

A breed is a dog type with a purpose that breeds true (i.e., with consistent characteristics) from generation to generation so you can improve its abilities and health.

A Golden/toy poodle cross will not produce a breed, nor will it produce a particularly effective "design," since an outcross produces high variability in the offspring. You cannot "design" offspring unless you are attempting to create a dog that can breed true so you can predict what you'll get.

Some lady putting an undersized pet store Golden in the back yard with a toy Poodle she happens to own is a disaster, not a design.


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## MamaLeopard (Sep 19, 2012)

I have met a couple of mini-goldendoodles...they are pretty cute, but very expensive for such a mixed breed (I think mini-goldendoodles have a mix of toy poodle, golden retriever, and cocker spaniel to make them smaller with a fluffy non-shed coat). These "designer dogs" often come with a lot of problems though...I know someone with a "Puggle" and he's got GI issues, allergies, and OCD. Clearly not responsible breeding.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

I will never understand this idea. These people spend more on a mutt than a purebred dog in many cases and then thumb their noses at rescue dogs. IMO a mutt is a mutt and should never cost more than a purebred dog.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Most of the modern breeds of dogs that exist, including the golden retriever, were created by breeding together various different breeds of dogs over several generations in an intentional breeding program.

Golden retrievers, for example, were bred into existence by Sir Dudley Majoribanks. Here is a little bit of how Wikipedia describes their creation:



> The original cross was of a yellow-coloured Retriever, _Nous_, with a Tweed Water Spaniel female dog, _Belle_. The Tweed Water Spaniel is now extinct but was then common in the border country. Marjoribanks had purchased Nous in 1865 from an unregistered litter of otherwise black wavy-coated retriever pups. In 1868, this cross produced a litter that included four pups; these four became the basis of a breeding program which included the Irish Setter, the sandy-coloured Bloodhound, the St. John's Water Dog of Newfoundland, and two more wavy-coated black Retrievers. The bloodline was also inbred and selected for trueness to Marjoribanks' idea of the ultimate hunting dog. His vision included a more vigorous and powerful dog than previous retrievers, one that would still be gentle and trainable. Russian sheepdogs are not mentioned in these records, nor are any other working dog breeds. The ancestry of the Golden Retriever is all sporting dogs, in line with Marjoribanks' goals. The Golden Retriever was active and powerful and had a gentle mouth for retrieving games while on hunts.


-Source: Golden Retriever - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, in theory, if you take enough care and cross breed over enough generations to get consistent results, you can take several breeds of dog and create a new separate and distinct dog breed.

Now, with "Goldendoodles" and the like, typically what you are getting is a first generation cross (i.e. one parent is a golden retriever, and the other is a poodle), which by definition is a mutt. However, the link to the "Comfort Goldens" described a process of breeding over several generations which could be the embroytic stages of creating a legitimate new breed.

I'm not endorsing this specific place someone linked to. For one thing, it's prices are outrageous and I don't agree with trademarking a potential breed name and shipping your dogs out the door sprayed or neutered (Presumably to preserve a monopoly on your new breed?). For another, a lot is left vague and I haven't met or spoke with them.

However, the _idea_ of creating a legitimate new dog breed, that comes from selective breeding over many generations and not just first or second generation crosses (mutts) where you attempt to take all the poodle elements except for size out of the new breed and retain all the golden retriever elements except for size is actually not a bad idea. Personally, I like golden retriever sized dogs, but what about people who live in apartments that have a weight limit for pets? How about folks who are too small or frail to control a full sized golden? Also, potentially, a breed of small goldens might live longer and be less prone to hip displasia.

I mean, it's a legitimate idea. I'll take a real golden retriever anyday. But I could see being stuck in a situation where my dog passed and I moved into a place that had weight restrictions on dogs, and if I were offered a puppy that I knew was going to basically grow into a smaller golden retriever versus getting a different small breed, I'd probably go with the smaller golden over the other small breed.

I'd probably even take a Labrador over a mini-golden as long as I live in a place where size isn't an issue, though. I like dogs about the size of a golden or a lab. They seem just big enough to be substantial enough of a pet for a man my size, but not so big and muscular that I'd fear I couldn't control them in a tense situation or give them enough room and exercise.


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## Altairss (Sep 7, 2012)

I never liked the idea of the Doodles at first, especially as peoples just jumped on the band wagon to make money. But there are some very dedicated people selectiving breeding for type, confirmation and to them most importantely being hypo allergenic. Someone in our 4-H just bought a third or fourth can't recall for sure generation golden doodle. Her daughter had always wanted a big dog and due to her allergies which are severe they could only have a few breeds.
This Doodle is very typy moves fantastic and is as smart as any dog I have ever known and this breeder who is doing things like confirmation classes against other breeders, obedience titles etc and also does all clearances with her dogs is not only affordable she explains what the pro's and cons of her breedings are. What you can expect from each of the generations.
While it worries me to some extent that is how all breeds started out as an idea and if they are doing it responseably I can't complain much about them but there are plenty of others who just doing it for the money and with no thought to the dog or the people who get them. Those I can complain about!


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

I bet I can make lots of money off my mutt.... 

"Jacktzu" puppies anyone!? Or maybe they'll be called "Shacks" :uhoh:


In all seriousness though I don't know where people get these ideas from...


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## Jamm (Mar 28, 2010)

oh boy. Here we go again...


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I don't have the problem with somebody creating a new breed necessarily, but there's a huge difference between what Tweedmouth did and what even the longest term Poodle-cross program is doing today. For example, the "comfort doodle" lady is not even using particularly good examples of Poodles, Goldens, and Cockers, and she sure as heck isn't doing multi-gen crosses with any kind of program aimed towards creating a breed.

The "comfort" lady claims to have settled on the right mix of dogs in 2007 (no more Cockers). So there is no way she's got a consistent line of dogs that breeds true to a type, as evinced by the fact that she claims a 20-55 pound weight range, among other things. And her site is riddled with pop science, ridiculous claims about genetics, and every kind of absurd hype you can name.

That's what I as able to discern in literally 90 seconds of reading on her site.


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## Austyn89 (Sep 25, 2012)

Well it seems to be interesting. But I'm curious about the it. I mean, I was
looking for some pics of it. Some shared pics aren't not visible. Facing some problem
to be shown. 
fix the problem!


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