# Hates the crate so much he would bite?



## Duke's My Dog (Jul 6, 2012)

Ok so we got our dog Duke a little over 3 weeks ago from a family who was selling him on craigslist. I posted a topic about him biting my daughter (didn't break the skin) when she was putting his food down (if you want to read it, it's titled "Help we don't know what to do"). 

So we do not allow the kids near the dog when he is eating now. 

He hates to be left alone which they told us. I am a stay at home mom so we are here most of the time, but we do have to leave at times. I guess he was on prozac when they had him and at first I thought "wow they are crazy to put this dog on prozac." He was so good at first.......lays around a lot, does get walked once a day and usually we play fetch with him. He does not willingly go into the crate and at first we could just grab his collar and put him in and then either give him a treat (which he won't eat) or just praise him. Well the other day I went to put him in the crate and he just laid on the floor and when I went to grab his collar he showed his teeth and acted like he was going to bite me. I am now scared of him. I did eventually get him in there. I know he hates to be left alone so he associates the crate with that but how do I get him to feel comfortable in there? He obviously has seperation anxiety and I feel bad but we do have to go grocery shopping or to appointmets, etc. Does anyone have any suggestions? I am also wondering if he was abused at all because he also grabbed my friend's son's arm when the kids were playing. I think it was because they were going towards the door and he thought they were going to leave him or something. 

I really want to keep him and make this work, but I am lost on how to make it better. He is not neutered and is 18 months old. Would neutering help? I am thinking no since he is older.

We don't have the $ right now to hire a personal trainer either. Please help!!!


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Google crate games and please do not grab the golden by his collar as this can be perceived as threatening--as he's already sensitive to it, you need to work on associated touches to the collar with positive outcomes (i.e yummy treat). Dogs are expensive and this pup is already coming with some issues, recommend you re-work the finances so that you can get him into a training class. If you paid money for him, you probably have disposable income for training--you just need to make it a priority.


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## JDandBigAm (Aug 25, 2008)

First thing is I would neuter him since he is old enough. Susan Garrett has a DVD called "Crate Games" and I've heard it is a fun way for dogs to get used to the crate. I fought with my dog to get him into his crate for the longest time but I found a lady who showed me how to correctly use an e collar. He now will jump into the van and enter his crate, no problem. 
I do hope your Golden works out for you and your family. It sounds like he has a few quirks that need to get worked out and hopefully he will settle into his new family.


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## Duke's My Dog (Jul 6, 2012)

I'm not sure he would benefit from just a regular obedience class. I am sure a dog trainer that comes to your house is very expensive and we do not have the money for that this week for sure. 

So I have to go somewhere tomorrow.......how do I get him into the cage? He could care less about treats.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

I would ditch the crate right now, imo. Him flattening himself on the floor and baring his teeth is most likely borne out of fear. He's not being aggressive. He's saying, "Hey, I don't like the crate, it scares me, so please leave me alone!"

Is there any way you can leave him in a dog proof room with a baby gate? I used to leave my Flora in a small bathroom when she was a puppy before I got her acclimated to her crate.

In the meantime, do. not. force him into the crate. By no means do you want Duke to continue associating the crate with bad things. Every time you force him in there you're just reinforcing his fear. Feed him his meals in there, toss treats in there and let him sniff them out. Work up to locking him in the crate, and when you get to that point only do it for very short increments of time. Leave him with a special treat (stuffed kong, marrow bone) or a toy when he is in the crate.

My best advice is to work as much as possible at getting Duke to associate the crate with fun things. Play games around the crate, put treats in there, and please work up to leaving him in the crate for short intervals of time. Pulling him into the crate by his collar and leaving him in there all stressed out will not make things better. Believe me. I tried doing that with my girl when she was young and it never got better. I had to work _hard _to get her to be comfortable in her crate.

Best of luck.


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## Duke's My Dog (Jul 6, 2012)

It's just so weird to me because his previous owners told us that they put him in the crate since he was a puppy and up to the day we got him when they would leave. I wish dogs could talk so he could tell me why he hates it so much :-(

With our old dog, I would leave her in the laundry room with the gate up and I did try that with Duke, but he acted like he was going to either try to push the gate over (it's not very sturdy in the door way) or try to jump over it and I don't want him to hurt himself.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Duke's My Dog said:


> It's just so weird to me because his previous owners told us that they put him in the crate since he was a puppy and up to the day we got him when they would leave. I wish dogs could talk so he could tell me why he hates it so much :-(
> 
> With our old dog, I would leave her in the laundry room with the gate up and I did try that with Duke, but he acted like he was going to either try to push the gate over (it's not very sturdy in the door way) or try to jump over it and I don't want him to hurt himself.


Have you tried leaving him with a stuffed kong or something in the laundry room?

What I had to do with Flora was work in baby steps. I first got her to the point where she'd simply willingly walk into her crate. Then I worked up to locking the crate door, walking away from the door, leaving the room, etc. etc. This took a _lot _of time and Flora ate a _lot _of treats.  I actually had to hire a personal trainer to help me out with this, because Flora just hated her crate so darn much.

Sounds like you need to work at getting Duke comfortable with being alone. Baby steps is my best advice, but I know it's hard when you absolutely have to leave. 

You may need to talk to his vet about some anti anxiety meds. Have you tried a thundershirt?


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

And these are the same owners that sold him on Craigs List. I hope you reconsider a basic obedience class--it's more for you than him. They'll help you communicate with him and not put him in situations where he feels threatened and needs to bare his teeth.


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## Duke's My Dog (Jul 6, 2012)

I have thought about the thundershirt but I read you should not leave them home alone with it on in case they try to chew it off? I don't know. 

I will definately consider an obedience class if it would really help.


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## Duke's My Dog (Jul 6, 2012)

Also what types of things are safe to leave in the crate with the dog? He is not a chewer but I still worry that if I leave something in there he might chew it (and possibly choke) because he is upset about being left alone.

Sorry for so many questions.......our other dog loved the crate so I am lost here!


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

I agree with an obedience class being a really great way to strengthen the bond between dog and owner and to help you understand your dog's behavior, but it probably won't help you much with the separation anxiety.

That's a good point with the thundershirt, but I think you could try using it during training sessions when you're only going to be out of the house for a minute or so. 

He looks like such a lovely dog, and goldens are born to please. I know he wants to be the perfect dog, separation anxiety is almost always the owner's fault (his old owners, not you of course), not the dog's. I know you say you can't currently afford a private trainer, but whenever you can, and if you're still dealing with SA, I highly recommend it. The private trainer I hired was a godsend for me when I was struggling with Flora's aversion to her crate. I only required one session with the trainer; after that I was the one doing all of the training.

Good luck, I really really hope you can nip this in the bud before it gets out of control.

ETA:

Buy a kong, if you do not have one already. The medium sized one that's red in color is good for a medium chewer. If Duke is a crazy insane chewer, then the black one is your next choice. Fill the kong up with something like... low fat plain yogurt and some of his kibble, or part of a mashed banana and some plain yogurt, or even his kibble soaked in low sodium chicken broth (that recipe can be messy!). Put the kong in the freezer and freeze it for 30 minutes to an hour. Give the kong to him when you're going to leave him. Maybe smear some peanut butter around the opening before handing it to him, to really entice him.

You can search this site for kong stuffing recipes. Just keep in mind that some of them can be really high in calories.

I would avoid stuffed toys if you're not sure if he's a major chewer or not. A lot of people here give their dogs antlers for chewing. Flora was never really into chewing, so the antler didn't work for her.


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## Duke's My Dog (Jul 6, 2012)

Thank you so much for your help Florabora......I really appreciate your positive outlook. He really is a good dog and does want to please most of the time. I have no idea what took place in his old home but I do hope he soon realizes that this is home and he can feel totally comfortable here. My kids adore him and I want this to work!

Also - I am thinking that he needs to know that he is at the bottom of the pack.....below all the humans. How do we teach him this?


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Duke's My Dog said:


> How do we teach him this?


Get him enrolled in an obedience class--you now have 2 threads where multiple people have recommended a trainer. The benefits of a trainer vice soliciting advice on a forum is that you have someone that will witness you & the dog in action. Great advice can be given over the forum but if it's executed poorly, it's not going to make the situation any better.

It sounds like you have a young golden that was raised by a family that didn't know what they were getting into, didn't properly exercise him & didn't work on basic skills--he now is in your home where it sounds like the set-up is similar--you want to do well, you just don't have the foundation to set him up for success (i.e. allowing kids to climb on him, pulling on his collar, having kids feed him unsupervised). 

I too have an issues with a golden I adopted (resource guarding, bullying a sr golden)--I've enlisted the help of a trainer to help me create the structure that my golden needs to be a good boy as well as help me see how my behavior was either frustrating the golden and/or encouraging the undesired behavior. I didn't have the knowledge to do it alone and knew things would get worse if I didn't act. 

I fear that if you don't find professional help (and I'm not saying your dog requires an expensive behaviorist) this pup is going to be labeled aggressive and you'll put him down or pawn him off onto someone else on Craigs List--he deserves better.


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## Duke's My Dog (Jul 6, 2012)

It seems like every time I post something on here I am be-littled. I do not allow my kids to be rough with the dog..........but they are kids and if you've ever had kids, you know that they are their own people with their own brains so they may do stuff and you bet that when they do it, they are corrected. My girls are older and know how to be with a dog for the most part, but a 2 year old is a little different. I supervise closely and tell him to be nice and pet the dog only. 

I never said I would not get a trainer.........I just said that at the moment we do NOT have the money for one. Not going to tell my saga story here but it's a fact. So I was trying to get some tips on how to get him to like the crate in the mean time.

I appreciate those of you who are supportive though. But I am sick of being be-littled and judged.


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## Goldens R Great (Aug 19, 2010)

If you absolutely don't have the money right now to take Duke to a training class, my advice would be to at least buy a positive training book or get one from your local library. I just finished The Complete Idiot's Guide to Positive Dog Training (3rd Edition) by Pamela Dennison and thought it was a terrific book. I got it from the library. You can purchase a used copy on Amazon for as low as $2.09. (I just checked the price this a.m. because I'm planning on purchasing this book.)


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## Duke's My Dog (Jul 6, 2012)

And by the way.........we have had other dogs and they loved their crate and never had a problem with a child playing with the dog. So obviously we are not totally failures!


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## willows pack (Apr 14, 2012)

We crate our dog as well andshe is liking going in there less and less as she gets older...closing in on 7 months. We always have the bedtime standoff where she flops down flat on the floor and won't budge...we put a bit of a Hansel and Gretel trail of high value treats leading to the crate and make fussing sounds over how great the treats are in there andhow we might like them etc.... Eventually the stomach wins and she slinks in there and is great once in the crate. And she's never been bad in the crate but she knows when it's crate time play and the day stop so you have to mke it enticing on some level

You are not failures..you just have a dog with some issues that you need to work thru. And it is going to require patience and work. We have been working with resource guarding challenges since 8 weeks and she is getting much better but is has required work and diligence. Some reactions are very instinctual and the dog needs to learn to impulse control those reactions which will come with working with them and gaining trust

The Library book suggestion is great and so is this forum. You also get tons of conflicting advice so you have to try the different techniques and see what works best for your specific dog. For now try and focus on setting the dog up for success. So minimize the situations that can put him in a challenging situation and really reward the good behavior...then he can build more confidence. But for the crate specifically get those great treats in there.. And periodically leave amazing treats in there throughout the day so he wants to go in there by choice


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

I agree with what people have said about taking the crate training slow. I'd feed and put toys/ treats in there for a good period of time without ever shutting the door. Could you lock him in a bathroom while you are gone until you get the crate situation worked out? I mean a room with a door you can close if you are concerned about the gate.

I agree about the obedience classes. I understand tight finances, but maybe you are over-estimating what a class costs? Around here we pay about $60 for a 6-8week class. Maybe look into local training clubs and see what the cost is?


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## GinnyinPA (Oct 31, 2010)

Is it actually necessary for him to be in the crate? Does he chew on things he shouldn't? If not, you might try leaving him out with a kong full of peanut butter or other goodies and see what happens. Shut any doors to rooms you don't want him to enter. If he does chew on furniture etc. then find a puppy proof room and leave him there with water, maybe music or tv for company and something to chew on. 

His problem isn't dominance, and trying to assert dominance is likely to make his stress issues worse, not better. 

Do a search on separation anxiety. There are many ways to deal with it. First and foremost is to not make a big deal out of you leaving or returning. No wild greetings or long farewells. 

Our dog had some issues with it when we first adopted him, but has mostly managed to work through them. We still give him a treat when we leave; he knows exactly what we are doing but doesn't care, as long as he gets his kong, bone, dinner etc. But at least leaving is no longer a major drama.


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## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Duke's My Dog said:


> It seems like every time I post something on here I am be-littled. I do not allow my kids to be rough with the dog..........but they are kids and if you've ever had kids, you know that they are their own people with their own brains so they may do stuff and you bet that when they do it, they are corrected. My girls are older and know how to be with a dog for the most part, but a 2 year old is a little different. I supervise closely and tell him to be nice and pet the dog only.
> 
> I never said I would not get a trainer.........I just said that at the moment we do NOT have the money for one. Not going to tell my saga story here but it's a fact. So I was trying to get some tips on how to get him to like the crate in the mean time.
> 
> I appreciate those of you who are supportive though. But I am sick of being be-littled and judged.


I don't think anyone means to belittle you. Most people here are very helpful and supportive. So I hope you'll ignore any post that you feel is critical. Personally I think it's great that you're asking questions and trying so hard. 

Your best bet if you can't pay for a private trainer is a class. Like someone said, its for you as much as the dog. If that's not an option or to supplement, I'd recommend looking at training Ideas on the Internet and in library books. I've done a lot of both. You just need to be selective and and careful about whose advice you follow. 

I also recommend something called "nothing in life is free" (or NILF) which is a gentle and positive way to get your dog to watch and listen to you and to teach them their place in the pack. There is a lot of info on GRF about it if you search. 

I think you've got several months of work ahead of you to be honest. But it sounds like you have a diamond in the rough and will be glad you put in the effort.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

QUOTE=Duke's My Dog;1761332]... Also - I am thinking that he needs to know that he is at the bottom of the pack.....below all the humans. How do we teach him this?[/QUOTE]

Please throw this idea out entirely. Dominance theory only causes the dog more stress. He's already telling you he is afraid, if you try to dominate him you will only make him more fearful.

Look up "Nothing in Life is Free" on the internet, these handling methods can help a dog behave better because they understand what you expect.

Get the "Crate Games" video, you can teach him to love the crate. 
Start feeding him in the crate, throw treats in to encourage him to go in, leave a filled kong in there with him so he has something to do while he's crated. 

Yes, take an obedience class, one that uses positive methods to teach the dogs what you want from them. You will learn a lot and he will learn to listen to you.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

SheetsSM said:


> Google crate games and please do not grab the golden by his collar as this can be perceived as threatening--as he's already sensitive to it, you need to work on associated touches to the collar with positive outcomes (i.e yummy treat). Dogs are expensive and this pup is already coming with some issues, recommend you re-work the finances so that you can get him into a training class. If you paid money for him, you probably have disposable income for training--you just need to make it a priority.


I suggest you get the DVD "crate games" and make the experience of being in a crate a positive one. 
I agree that hiring a trainer would be money well spent.


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## MikaTallulah (Jul 19, 2006)

Buddy would not crate and still does not crate. He will never be crated he was emtionally scarred by it. He was terrified of it- He dropped to the ground and Lost bladder/bowel function at the sight of it. At first he would not even stay in the laundry room with the door closed or even gated- That terrify him. He was okay gated in the kitchen with Cozy and the other Yorkies. Gates did not bother them at all and neither did the kitchen. They were calm and so was he eventually- He would cry/whine but did not try to go over or through the gate.

He had severe separation anxiety when I got him. The first night I left him with my parents while I went to work he cried for 12 hrs straight and had diarrhea because mommy- The person he was bonded to left him. I refused to try meds til I exhausted all other options. He did not destroy anything but would turn his anxiety onto himself- Chewed himself raw, crying/pacing til his feed would bleed, and gave himself diarrhea. He was also an escape artist, counter surfer, not housebroken, etc- He was also 20 pounds underweight. He was a physical and emotional basket case. I found what worked best for him was to run him/play with him til he was exhausted. A tired dog is a very happy dog in his case. The was a mess when I got him on and off the leash. He has come a long way- He is hopefully getting his CGC in a few weeks. I rescued him in Dec. 14 2011. Not bad for only having him for 7 months.

He still goes to weekly dog training- Basic adult, adult 2, CGC, pet therapy, and private lessons. He also gets tons of exercise- 5 miles daily walking plus the dog park several times a week and he has free run of 1 acre of property. When he does not have active hot spots he goes swimming. He needs the exercise for his mind and body to rest. I use obedience skills on him all day- Sit, stay, stand, down, paw, etc in rapid succession. His favorite game is find it.

It will be work but their is hope for him. He does not sound 1/2 as bad as Buddy was


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## momtoMax (Apr 21, 2009)

First, gotta say that sometimes my posts are so honest and forthright, I get the same reaction from the person I am writing to try to help. Usually if it's not advice you want to hear, one can tend to take offense rather than put their guard down and listen. I think that it's very important to take everyone's point of view and opinion (since you did ask for it) in an open, non defensive way. One thing I do agree with very much in that post is that this forum is not a replacement or adequate in any way for a professional trainer and yes, you may get some great advice here but it's even more important that you are following through in the correct way and have an understanding of your new dog and the process.
I wonder have you looked to see if you could find any trainers in the area? I think that maybe you are just assuming that someone like that would be super expensive. Just paying for an hour of a trainers time would be a great help for you but make sure that you have a good handle on what your dog is doing that concerns you, what you want him to do, and which behaviors you want to understand.
As for the seperation thing, one thing I've heard is that you should randomly pick up your keys, your purse, and whatever else usually comes before you leaving the home for a while so that your dog stops putting together keys = Oh my God, she's going to leave! I'm so anxious!!! Carry treats or a toy (all dogs love a great treat - with some it's just harder to figure out with some dogs - maybe it's a peice of hotdog, maybe it's 2 minutes tug of war with your human) with you and start leaving sometimes for only a minute. If Duke is quiet and calm, reward when you return. Over time lengthen that but always, whether you are gone 5 minutes or 8 hours, reward him when you return.

Those are just some ideas I've seen that work but all dogs are different and that's why it's extra important to get a professional opinion about your dog. Also, be careful that you don't try to many things at once. If you're going to go for NILF, then give it your best college try without muddying the waters by throwing in a bunch of the members other suggestions. A week is not long enough to try one strategy over another.

It sounds like you're making some great connections - like keeping your kids away from meal time and realizing that you may not have all the information to really understand your new dogs behaviors and not assuming anything. It's that kind of attitude that will help make this work but please don't be offended when someone gives you an opinion you don't like. You asked for it and most times, it's the fact that those opinions hit too close to home and you're set about not doing what they are suggesting - it becomes like a self defense mechanism. Anyone who answers you is trying to help you.


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