# "There Are No Shortcuts to Any Place Worth Going"



## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

"There Are No Shortcuts to Any Place Worth Going" – Beverly Sills

Think about that before you put choke, prong, e-collar or whatever on your dog. You want your less than a year old puppy to behave and walk like your 10 years old dog. 
I can see positive training oriented people posting less and less on this forum. Why is that? ... Probably because they advise patience and time and nobody wants to hear that and doesn’t appreciate their advices. Those positive oriented people will tell you, you have to do it thousands times. Who has so much time for it, we are not that kind of society, we want it *HERE* and *NOW*.

"Goldens are kind of dogs who want to please their owners", can’t tell you how many times I questioned that just to say, 2 and half years later, it is so true. But first you have to create bond with your dog and for different reasons it could take time too.

In the book "Decoding your dog" page 84-85 is written …
"When you are trying to sort through all the tools available for training, it helps to think, "Would I want this to be used on me?" or "Would I use this on a child?" If the answer to either question is no, then *don’t *use it on your dog."
Articles in this book are written by American College of Veterinary Behaviorists, the experts worth listening to.

I am not posting this to upset people :no:, I am doing it for the sake of the dogs.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I'll tell you this much - think like a dog, not a human. Dogs are animals. Not people. They must be approached and handled from that perspective if you are going to understand "why" they do things and figure out how to fix problems. 

Thinking like a dog... given a choice between having a corrective device around the strongest muscled area of your body (necks with golden retrievers) or having a corrective device around the most sensitive area of your body (noses for golden retrievers) - which would be worse? 

I've seen dogs pulling on prongs with no pain or discomfort. 

I've seen dogs who have had nose straps (those nasty gentle leader things) put on them for the first time - and they are digging and cowering to get those things off of them. Because it's uncomfortable or even painful for some dogs. 

Those who manage to pull with these on get their heads yanked sideways - which can cause neck injuries. 

I could probably go on and on, but this is a huge sign of hypocrisy which stands out to me when I listen to some people demonize some dog training tools while their dogs wear so called gentle leaders or other tools which cause strong discomfort to the dogs. 

Other kind of hypocrisy which exists as well are those people who carry on to infinity about choke chains, but you go to dog shows where these people may have dogs out there with handlers or whatever - and their dogs are uniformly shown on choke chains or other tools which do the same job (tighten up around the neck and stay tight and high around the neck where they provide the most control). 

If you are going to talk, you probably have to show that you've gotten results with your dogs without using any tools that you specifically criticizing (!) and/or use other tools which cause equal or greater discomfort to the dogs as the ones you have a vendetta against. 

Just my opinion.

And fwiw - I think there's very few people who recommend using corrective methods on this training forum (specific area of the forum). Majority of people offering training advice are suggesting the use of treats and other non corrective methods to problem solve.

Me personally - I'd never suggest people put a training collar on a dog while walking the dog around the block. Unless you are specifically training and going to work on being very fair and attentive - and not dragging a training session out beyond 10-20 minutes.... I don't think it's fair to the dog. Walks should be fun and relaxed for both dog and owner. I'd rather a dog pull on a walk with a regular collar than learn to pull on a training collar - since I like daydreaming or gabbing with neighbors in passing as opposed to sweating it out actively training a dog every foot of a 3+ mile walk!  And I assume most people are like me in that.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

The one and only time I ever put a choke collar on a dog was years ago, after being told by a professional dog trainer that it was the _only_ way he would learn, the _only_ way to ensure that he would learn to 'obey'. Not knowing any different at the time, and believing what she said to be true, I complied with her instructions, put the collar on my dog and 'corrected' him as he joyfully ran ahead and pulled on the leash, as I had been instructed to do. He dropped to ground, the confusion in his eyes apparent, not understanding what happened, or why it had happened to him, or what he had done wrong. I removed that collar, threw it away, questioned whether punishing my dog was _necessary_ in order for him to learn, I vowed that if that was the _only_ way to train my dog, he would go 'untrained'.

I began to search, there was not a lot of information on other dog training methods available at that time, nor training centers who taught without training collars, and scraped together what I could, and embarked on the journey of educating myself and my dog. Learned about lure and reward, practice, patience, working to get it 'right', about simply 'capturing' and rewarding the behaviors I liked, about 'shaping' breaking the 'end goal' behavior down into steps, to make it easier for my dog to choose, to want to succeed. Absolutely, I made mistakes, as did my dog, and all of my dogs, but rather than 'correct' we chose to 'try again'. 
Over the years we have travelled the journey of not just teaching and learning the 'basics skills', not just my own dogs, as a dog trainer helping others to work with their dogs, some on the verge of giving up, teach their dogs what TO DO, and rewarding it, give their dogs the skills they need to have to be well behaved, 'good dogs'. The dogs (and owners) learned quickly once they understood how it 'worked', the more they practiced the quicker they learned, picked up on new behaviors, eager to try, eager to succeed, again, and again.
There is no denying that tools used to apply punishment to train 'work', those 'traditional' methods and tools have been used for decades, but there is also no denying that it is not required that we learn to punish 'correctly' in order to teach our dogs, dogs can and do learn, quickly, reliably, consistently, and confidently, when we focus on teaching them what we want them TO DO.
There are no 'short cuts', no 'quick fixes', our dogs don't get to choose how we treat and train them, what 'tools' we may use, but they are trusting us, relying on us to educate ourselves, weigh the 'pros and cons' of how we do, what we do, with and for them.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Bear's training collar is a choke chain. It isn't a shortcut for us. It's a tool in our box for a balanced training approach. We still use positive reinforcement 99% of the time. The choke chain is for that 1% that he needs a correction.

When used properly, a choke chain does not choke. It tightens and then releases. Bear knows exactly what happens when his training collar comes out of the bag. He gets to spend one-on-one time with me, working. He loves it. It flips a switch in his brain from "casual time" to "work time."

He is the only dog (at this point at least) in our rally class that can heel with the leash over our shoulder (no pressure on his collar, just him doing his job) for the entirety of a course. He responds to hand signals and words but we would have never gotten there without the training, which utilized a choke chain. 

Choke chains aren't magical. You don't slip it on and suddenly the dog is perfectly well behaved. It takes time and patience to train using a choke chain. Just like with any other training method. 

You get results from being consistent and from practicing hundred of thousands of times. You have to keep it fun. You have to find YOUR dog's triggers. The things he will work for and give him reason to work. 

I don't regret using a choke chain on Bear. I will probably use it for the rest of his life because he is conditioned to associate it with working.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

I used a gentle leader harness, a halti, a sporn harness and a prong collar (for about a minute) with Max before MY brain finally clicked that he wasn't learning anything at all with those things, and if I ever had to walk somewhere with him on leash without them, it wasn't going to be pretty. 
And then we started working on not pulling my arm out of the socket when he's just wearing a martingale. It took a long time, but I can now walk with him with his regular flat collar if I have to. 
The other day, we stopped somewhere and I hadn't put his collar on before leaving because the martingale is normally in the car. I had taken it out of the car, and forgot. It was way too hot to leave him in the car, so I wrapped the leash loosely around his neck, held both ends and said, "Make me proud, Baby!" And he did. 

Patience is not a virtue that most possess these days, including me, but I'm glad I finally took the time to do it right.


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## Chritty (Aug 17, 2014)

*&quot;There Are No Shortcuts to Any Place Worth Going&quot;*

And then there's the people who will surrender their dogs, or worse, because they cannot communicate effectively with their friend that is of an entirely different species. 

Maybe most of us shouldn't be allowed to own a dog until they're atleast 2 years of age and a bit level headed.

If there is a quick way, I see no issue with utilizing both the quick and the long side by side


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## Buddy's mom forever (Jun 23, 2011)

laprincessa said:


> I used a gentle leader harness, a halti, a sporn harness and a prong collar (for about a minute) with Max before MY brain finally clicked that he wasn't learning anything at all with those things, and if I ever had to walk somewhere with him on leash without them, it wasn't going to be pretty.
> And then we started working on not pulling my arm out of the socket when he's just wearing a martingale. It took a long time, but I can now walk with him with his regular flat collar if I have to.
> The other day, we stopped somewhere and I hadn't put his collar on before leaving because the martingale is normally in the car. I had taken it out of the car, and forgot. It was way too hot to leave him in the car, so I wrapped the leash loosely around his neck, held both ends and said, "Make me proud, Baby!" And he did.
> 
> Patience is not a virtue that most possess these days, including me, but I'm glad I finally took the time to do it right.


Exactly the same story, eazy walk harness worked magic for couple months and then pulling was back :doh:. It was the moment I realized "there is no shortcuts..." :no: Of course I had to change my attitude first, leave watch at home so I do not know how long we have been walking and get just 3 blocks away from our house, go later at night when is less distraction, focus on every single little thing he does well, stop dead when he pulls (and stop counting stops as at the beginning we would stop over hundred times) ... it took us month and half to see change. Now I hold leash with 2 fingers and we do make stops just this time to give him hugs and thank him for being such a good boy!


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