# Liver shunts



## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Contact Dirks Fund in Missouri--GR rescue that's seen more than its fair share of goldens and golden/poodle mixes with shunts. Some have been successfully surgically repaired and others have had surgery but the dog will not likely have a long life.

There is also Shalva on the forum with her pup Bing who is suspected of having a liver shunt. Hurry up & get to 15 posts & then you can PM her.

Is this the pup you kept from your other pets' litter? Have you checked in with the rest of the pups to see that they're in good health?


----------



## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

SheetsSM said:


> Contact Dirks Fund in Missouri--GR rescue that's seen more than its fair share of goldens and golden/poodle mixes with shunts. Some have been successfully surgically repaired and others have had surgery but the dog will not likely have a long life.
> 
> There is also Shalva on the forum with her pup Bing who is suspected of having a liver shunt. Hurry up & get to 15 posts & then you can PM her.
> 
> Is this the pup you kept from your other pets' litter? Have you checked in with the rest of the pups to see that they're in good health?


Bing is not suspected of having a shunt... Bing has an intra hepatic shunt, micro vascular dysplasia and a severely under developed liver, and moderate to severe Inflammatory Bowel disease that was diagnosed by endoscopy, MRI and CT Scan... he had surgery to repair the shunt in January of 2010 by Chick Weisse at the Animal Medical Center in NYC... he is now 4 years old... Then in 2011 we rescued a flat coated retriever who was diagnosed with an extra hepatic shunt by CT Scan; again we drove to NYC from our home in NH and that shunt was also repaired by Dr. Chick Weisse at the Animal Medical Center... Cody was then placed in a great home where he is living the high life. 

I am happy to answer any questions that you might have. In large dogs 80% of shunts are inside the liver... with intrahepatic shunts IBD is a co-disease and I would add several medications to your protocal... metronidizal is important to keep the bacteria in the gut down so to help keep the toxins from the blodstream in addition to Prilosec to reduce stomach acid and prevent ulcers from forming. Remember the stool needs to be the consistency of soft serve ice cream. In addition we give Bing a daily herbal formula and pro biotic.... 

you are welcome to email me directly and I am happy to either email you or we can talk by phone... if you go to my website linked below you will find a contact me button and use that to email me... or I can answer your questions here... whichever you prefer... I can also tell you a bit about surgical options it is difficult to find information on shunts in large breeds online as they are fairly rare ...the disease process in large dogs is totally different than in small dogs where the shunts are fairly common. 

Shalva


----------



## Michele4 (Oct 28, 2012)

My pug was diagnosed with a liver shunt at 1 yr old, prognoses was maybe 2 to 3 yrs without surgery and a special diet. He was having a lot of diarrhea throwing up and some seizures. Surgery was expensive but well worth it. He is now 7 yrs and very healthy with no special diet.


----------



## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

the problem is that the disease process in large dogs is very different than in small dogs ... in small dogs the shunt is almost always outside the liver... in large dogs it is generally inside the liver which makes traditional surgical options much more difficult... there are some new procedures ie. interventional radiology that are more effective with a higher success rate for dogs with intrahepatic shunts... the key is going to be finding out what kind of shunt your dogs has... 

start with your standard bile acid test 
don't waste your money on an ultrasound ... go straight to a CT Scan


----------



## CCasper1 (Oct 21, 2012)

Yes, Linus is out of our litter. He was the runt and mother did not want to care for him so we forced her. We spoke to our vet and she told us normally the runt is the one diagnosed and the rest of the liter was fine. We have only had one set of blood work ran. We were advised to wait to get more test done after we were certain the lactalose and prescription diet were affective on his personality. He is coming up soon to having blood work ran again.

We were told by our vet that surgery was very risky as the liver does not process the anesthesia well. How was your dogs recovery after surgery? If it would expand his life we would be willing to fork out the money for it. We were also told that sometimes they can not always repair the shunts once they are opened up. Do you think we need a second option from a vet who has dealt with this more?


We were the ones who asked for blood drawn and took video footage for vet to see. He just was a very sleepy and withdrawn puppy. He would also have appear clumsy and sometimes shake a little when sitting or standing. He also was not gaining weight. It has been a week since his last check up and he has gained 10 lb. it has been a month since his blood was drawn.


----------



## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Listen to Shalva who has gone above and beyond....


----------



## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

CCasper1 said:


> Yes, Linus is out of our litter. He was the runt and mother did not want to care for him so we forced her. We spoke to our vet and she told us normally the runt is the one diagnosed and the rest of the liter was fine. We have only had one set of blood work ran. We were advised to wait to get more test done after we were certain the lactalose and prescription diet were affective on his personality. He is coming up soon to having blood work ran again.
> 
> We were told by our vet that surgery was very risky as the liver does not process the anesthesia well. How was your dogs recovery after surgery? If it would expand his life we would be willing to fork out the money for it. We were also told that sometimes they can not always repair the shunts once they are opened up. Do you think we need a second option from a vet who has dealt with this more?
> 
> ...


The first step is to find out where that shunt is... if it is inside the liver then the old traditional surgeries were very dangerous and many dogs did not survive but the new interventional radiology procedure is expensive but has a high success rate and recovery rate... if the shunt is outside the litter then the traditional repaire methods are worth doing as the surgery is very invasive but the success rate is high... 

it is very difficult to provide a recommendation when you are not sure where that shunt is... an ultrasound will not tell you as an ultrasound can show that there is a shunt but is not good at telling you where you the shunt is located... so my experience has been that ultrasounds are a waste of money and that going directly to CT Scan is what is needed you can take the money you would have spent on the ultrasound and get definitive information. 

your vet is correct that the anesthesia is metabolized by the liver and that shunt dogs have a hard time with the anesthesia but it is the only way you are going to know what your next step is. Until you know where the shunt is there is not much advice to give as you would deal with a shunt inside the liver and one outside the liver very differently

Both Bing and Cody did fine with the anesthesia... it was stressful but they did fine and yes I would give Dr. Chick Weisse at the Animal Medical Center in NYC a call... he is outstanding and has done a ton of procedures and he is going to give you the down and dirty information that you need. He can be hard to get hold of as he travels around the world teaching his procedure... but he is the guy to talk to.... he specializes in shunts for large dogs... Karen Tobias at the Universtiy of Tenn specializes in shunts in small dogs


----------



## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Sally's Mom said:


> Listen to Shalva who has gone above and beyond....


Thank you for these kind words I do appreciate them a great deal!


----------



## Cumberland Lucy (Feb 15, 2010)

CCasper1 said:


> Hello-
> 
> Our 14 week old golden pup was recently diagnosed with liver shunts. He is on lactalose 3x a day and prescription diet. We have been asking a lot of questions to our vet. We are interested in hearing others stories, knowledge, and experiences with liver shunts as we are brand new to this. Please share.


We had a golden that was diagnosed with a liver shunt when she was 10 months old. We medically managed it the best we could with a low protein diet(Royal Canin hepatic 14) and medication. We lost Lucy this fall after 3 1/2 years. Her immune system started attacking her red blood cells and she wasn't reproducing red blood cells either. She did really well until this past fall and everything came crashing down so fast. Did you have a bile acid test done on Linus?
And I agree, Shalva will have good advice.


----------



## GoldenScout (Mar 20, 2014)

*Liver Shunt*

Hello All,

Today, I got the news after a blood test & profile exam that my 4 months old Golden Puppy more than likely has a "Liver Shunt" I've had Scout now for 2 months and have seen all the signs that have been talked about. "Cumberland Lacy" I've read your entire posting & have now join the Yahoo Group: DogLiverShuntandDisease. If anyone else has ideas on how to handle this disease, we'd all like to hear about it.


----------



## Cumberland Lucy (Feb 15, 2010)

Did you have the bile acid test done on your puppy? Surgery would be the best option but the puppy has to be stable enough to handle it. Surgery is expensive though. Lots of good info on the DLD group and Olga will have a lot of advice, along with the other members.


----------



## CCasper1 (Oct 21, 2012)

Hi Goldenscout! It's great to hear from a fellow Golden Retriever lover. I know I originally started on this forum looking for answers just like you. Unfortunately, I do not have as much time as I once did to write on here.

We found out not long after Linus was diagnosed with the liver shunt that he has a heart murmur as well as some other issues. This has left us with no option, but to manage on diet and medication alone. We feed Linus science diet l/d twice a day and he gets 5ml of lactalose 3 times a day. He will be 2 in September and is way bigger and healthier than our vet every thought he would be. He weights a whole 68lb!


I am not saying we do not have our battles. He has days where he just doesn't feel good, but most of the time you could never tell there was anything wrong with him. Hope this is some inspiration for you!


----------



## GoldenScout (Mar 20, 2014)

Hello All Again,

After knowing what was causing Scout's odd behaviors & conditions he has done amazing improvements in the last month. That doctor prescribed giving him Lactalose; 2ml, 2 times a day. I'm doing my best to manage his diet with what I had before the news of him having a Liver Shunt. 

Too answer your question "Cumberland Lacy" he had the bile acid test done along with a blood test. That was the test that told the sad news.

Scout has been doing really well for the last past month other than doing weird aggressive behaviors once in awhile. Just today he has showed signs of heavy fatigue. 

Can anyone else relate to this?


----------



## CCasper1 (Oct 21, 2012)

Yes- on occasion Linus has days with heavy fatigue. If he plays hard during the day, it can sometimes take him a few days to recover and get back to normal. We cannot take him on long walks or play ball for long periods, ect...

I also found it interesting that Scout was acting aggressively. Linus shows symptoms of OCD. His biggest obsession is licking himself until he is raw. We have to watch him closely, but on occasion he gets the best of us and ends up in the cone of shame!!! He has shown signs of other antics, but non that have ever stuck. When we asked the vet about it, we were just told is was neurological symptoms of his condition.


----------



## GoldenScout (Mar 20, 2014)

Hello All Again,

Thank you CCasper1 with sharing about Linus. It nice to hear about other Goldens. Are you able to share some pictures? 

This past week, I got a quote from a specialty hospital to do a Transcolonic nuclear scrintigraphy, ouch is that expensive. This test will determine whether it's an inside or outside liver shunt. The talk is if this test is done and surgery is done. Scout would be a normal Golden Retriever. Is that what you have heard? It's either do medicine and proper diet or expensive surgery. What path have you thought about going?


----------



## CCasper1 (Oct 21, 2012)

We talked surgery in the beginning until we found out about his heart murmur. Now, no surgery is an option for Linus. 

Our understanding was we could spend the money on the surgery and once he was opened up they could get in there an have the possibility of not being able to do anything for him. Plus we were warned that surgery with a shunt was extremely high risk due to the liver not being able to process the anesthesia. 

We have 2 different vets we use. One for our horses and one for our dogs and cats. Both of them said, if Linus was their dog they would not risk the surgery.

I would love to give Linus the option of being a normal dog, but I do not think he was ever meant to be normal. If I were you, I would do a lot more research before deciding. 

Linus has maintained a "healthy" life so far on lactolose 3x day (15ml total) and science diet L/D dog food twice a day. He gets normal dog treats so long as they are under 8% protein.

*Picture is Linus on right and his big brother Cooper on left*


----------



## GoldenScout (Mar 20, 2014)

Great looking Goldens, CCasper1! Thanks for the picture.


----------



## Cumberland Lucy (Feb 15, 2010)

GoldenScout said:


> Hello All Again,
> 
> Thank you CCasper1 with sharing about Linus. It nice to hear about other Goldens. Are you able to share some pictures?
> 
> This past week, I got a quote from a specialty hospital to do a Transcolonic nuclear scrintigraphy, ouch is that expensive. This test will determine whether it's an inside or outside liver shunt. The talk is if this test is done and surgery is done. Scout would be a normal Golden Retriever. Is that what you have heard? It's either do medicine and proper diet or expensive surgery. What path have you thought about going?


Scout is a very nice looking dog. I hope he is doing well.


----------



## GoldenScout (Mar 20, 2014)

Thank you Cumberland Lucy. Scout has amazed me in how he has turned around into a regular Golden Retriever puppy being on the medicine. 

After receiving the news of why Scout was doing the things he was doing. I researched and Cumberland Lucy your Golden Retriever forum was the first one that I read. I'm curious, did Lucy experience a big change like this after being placed on medicine & low-protein diet? And if so, how long would it last?


----------



## GoldenScout (Mar 20, 2014)

Hello All,

It's been awhile since my last posting and today Scout is getting a "Transcolonic Portal Scintigraphy" at AVMI. I had been putting off getting this diagnose due to the cost but I've been able to save up and lately I've been seeing more and more signs that his livery shunt is still taking effect on him.

Even though he is on 90% of Science Diet L/D and 2 types of medications. He has started getting Edema in his neck and in his groin area. Also, have notice his energy level being affected on our normal walk. 

That's the latest with Scout now 14 months old. How's everyone else with liver shunts doing?


----------



## Indyfurkiddos (Dec 24, 2008)

Hello there!

My 15 week-old puppy was also diagnosed with a liver shunt (extra hepatic). He will have surgery with Dr. Tobias at the University of Tennessee at the end of April. 

How's Scout doing? What did the Scintigraphy show?


----------



## GoldenScout (Mar 20, 2014)

It has been awhile since GoldenScout's last posting, I thought I'd post some more after looking to see if anyone else had stories & Liver Shunt experiences. I do have to say that it has been a roller coaster ride with Scout's Liver Shunt. He would do great for some time and then crash into (I've been calling them a Liver Shunt Episodes). In the last month, he has had 2 very bad Liver Shunt Episodes. This recent one, the majority of it has happened yesterday even through it is still continuing. With this latest one, there has been major head down, walking all around all the time, bumping into objects, walking into corners, acting very drunk, drowning his month in his water bowl, if sitting still weaving back & forth, drooling. There is also this locking his jaws on objects.

I tried yesterday to kennel Scout for a short period of time,but while doing so, he had locked his jaw onto the front cage and ripped it off and then continued to pulled with his locked jaw and broke his canine tooth in half. 

He has ripped through garden hoses, wires, furniture, dog beds, dog gate, plumbing hose all while having a Liver Shunt episode. It's getting close to unmanageable but i'm still trying my best to provide and comfort Scout.

On Monday, I have an appointment with a veterinarian specialist, in hopes that a Liver Shunt surgery for Scout is possible. 

* A follow up from my last posting: Scout did have a Transcolonic Portal Scintigraphy on 1-9-2015 and it did confirm the Liver Shunt and that the Liver is only working at 5 to 10%.* 

I would prefer posting pictures of Scout in his better stages (had to post one) but on this posting I feel it's best to show signs of the Liver Shunt. The are of him when he was younger doing the head down and the last one was just yesterday with him doing the lock jaw on his dog bed.


----------



## Amelia1123 (Aug 6, 2020)

GoldenScout said:


> It has been awhile since GoldenScout's last posting, I thought I'd post some more after looking to see if anyone else had stories & Liver Shunt experiences. I do have to say that it has been a roller coaster ride with Scout's Liver Shunt. He would do great for some time and then crash into (I've been calling them a Liver Shunt Episodes). In the last month, he has had 2 very bad Liver Shunt Episodes. This recent one, the majority of it has happened yesterday even through it is still continuing. With this latest one, there has been major head down, walking all around all the time, bumping into objects, walking into corners, acting very drunk, drowning his month in his water bowl, if sitting still weaving back & forth, drooling. There is also this locking his jaws on objects.
> 
> I tried yesterday to kennel Scout for a short period of time,but while doing so, he had locked his jaw onto the front cage and ripped it off and then continued to pulled with his locked jaw and broke his canine tooth in half.
> 
> ...


Did Scout have surgery for his liver shunt? I have a 19 week Golden that’s just been diagnosed after multiple Grand Mal seizures and blood work. We are now stabilizing her and then will do more tests, and we will check to see if she is a candidate for surgery. How did your pup do with surgery? Thanks so much!


----------

