# What Notes do you keep?



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Our last show, we went to visit a sheltie breeder that we have become friends with in class. I have been paying a lot of attention to what people do at shows, what they bring etc. He had a folder that had the name of the show on it, and inside he kept the ribbons he has won there, the directions on how to get there, who won the show, judges etc. He said he has one for every show he goes to, then every year adds to it.

I know my breeder looks at the judges and knows which dogs of hers to enter under that judge or not to enter at all. I have talked to other handlers and they say everyday is a different day for a judge, so they do not pay much attention to that.

Does anybody else keep notes for each show? Judges?


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I wish I were that organized...  

Showing to judges a 2nd or 3rd time this year, I think I will be looking for patterns or confirmation of my "first impression". 

I've found that judges sometimes go all Jekyll Hyde when it comes to big shows. One judge in particular - I really liked after showing to him at a small show. He was personable, friendly, gave a good look at every dog and gave the win to a breeder/handler over some bigger pros... 

And then showing to this same guy at a big show, I was surprised at how different he was, right down to turning his back on me when he was supposed to be looking at my dog... a lot of the bigger pros had the advantage at this big show. Even those who didn't get a second look at the smaller show. 

So... notes on judges might not just be about the judge. You have to consider how they judge at different shows. 

I do have a mental note of some judges who definitely are not looking so much at the handlers vs the dogs. But even that list gets confounded sometimes...  

Bottom line though - because I don't travel out of state so much (though I plan to do so a little bit more this year since my work schedule will allow it) - my notes won't necessarily prevent me from showing to a judge. And/or won't have travelling out of my way to show to a different judge.

Some people I know who keep really major league notes - they are the ones who do a bit more traveling.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Very interesting about the same judges in a big show compared to a small show.


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## Christen113 (Dec 3, 2014)

Interesting that you ask this. I've started printing out the results from the shows we show in so that I have the judge, often the handlers that showed the dogs, and the pedigrees of the dogs they put up. I typically try to look up the judges and see what they've put up in the past on infodog, at least if I'm going to travel anywhere for it. I also check with my breeder first, if it's a show that I'm going to have to go out of my way to attend. For the most part right now, if we travel, I'm looking at judges but also trying to find places that my husband and I will enjoy visiting for the weekend so win or lose, we still have fun. 

I showed Cooper twice this weekend-I wouldn't dare show to the first judge again-he looked like he was there for paycheck, barely went over the dogs, barely watched them move, had everyone OPEN the dog's mouths (not just show bite-open wide as if you were going to stuff a pill down their throat-even Jennifer Harper had never seen that before), etc. Overall just didn't care for his attitude, even though I didn't think he put up bad dogs. The judge the second day didn't do anything for us in WD but clearly took his time, evaluated the dogs, and I would happily show again--so those are the kinds of things I make little notes about. I just have my printouts and star or cross out the judges  I also keep track of the judges that are just looking at a certain handler and which handler that may be-which is what we experienced in October-she put up the same handler for WD/WB and the WD was truly awful (fried coat, very narrow/bitchy face). The handler handed off the far better dog to her assistant-no doubt thinking she should get the points where she could and the better dog didn't place at all. Cooper took RWD that show-and if I ever showed to her again, I'd only use the handler that she very obviously favored. I'm torn on whether to never support that judge again or make sure that handler has Cooper since she was very complimentary about his breed type--but just based on principal, I can't imagine showing to her again.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Christen113 said:


> Interesting that you ask this. I've started printing out the results from the shows we show in so that I have the judge, often the handlers that showed the dogs, and the pedigrees of the dogs they put up. I typically try to look up the judges and see what they've put up in the past on infodog, at least if I'm going to travel anywhere for it. I also check with my breeder first, if it's a show that I'm going to have to go out of my way to attend. For the most part right now, if we travel, I'm looking at judges but also trying to find places that my husband and I will enjoy visiting for the weekend so win or lose, we still have fun.
> 
> I showed Cooper twice this weekend-I wouldn't dare show to the first judge again-he looked like he was there for paycheck, barely went over the dogs, barely watched them move, had everyone OPEN the dog's mouths (not just show bite-open wide as if you were going to stuff a pill down their throat-even Jennifer Harper had never seen that before), etc. Overall just didn't care for his attitude, even though I didn't think he put up bad dogs. The judge the second day didn't do anything for us in WD but clearly took his time, evaluated the dogs, and I would happily show again--so those are the kinds of things I make little notes about. I just have my printouts and star or cross out the judges  I also keep track of the judges that are just looking at a certain handler and which handler that may be-which is what we experienced in October-she put up the same handler for WD/WB and the WD was truly awful (fried coat, very narrow/bitchy face). The handler handed off the far better dog to her assistant-no doubt thinking she should get the points where she could and the better dog didn't place at all. Cooper took RWD that show-and if I ever showed to her again, I'd only use the handler that she very obviously favored. I'm torn on whether to never support that judge again or make sure that handler has Cooper since she was very complimentary about his breed type--but just based on principal, I can't imagine showing to her again.



Also, very interesting would be if there is a difference between breeder judges and judges other breeds.

You might be happy to know, a lot of the big name breeder judges that my club has hired for our specialty the past couple years, usually ask us only to pay for their travel expenses and they either do it for free or ask us to give a donation to the Golden Retriever Foundation or another golden charity. Not sure if the AKC also gives them money.


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## Christen113 (Dec 3, 2014)

I think there definitely is a difference. Cooper has done really well (better) under breeder judges so far. I personally think that's a real compliment since they should really be knowledgeable and looking for the best goldens to really enhance and better the breed  I do think that it also semi depends on the style that they breed and prefer though as well, although not always. That is nice that they did it for free or donations.

I just saw that the judge from October is coming back to our area in April. Debating whether it's worth the entry since she did say he had great breed type and give him reserve or if I should sit out knowing that she put up a truly terrible dog that day.


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## bethlehemgolden (Aug 2, 2014)

I keep all that on here on my bethlehemgolden's Profile.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

bethlehemgolden said:


> I keep all that on here on my bethlehemgolden's Profile.


Thank you! I think I need to also start taking notes on shows to come. Went to enter Sailor in a show on Tuesday, did not have her AKC number on me, so decided to wait until that evening. Yesterday I was at a function with my daughter and remembered the show was closing in a couple hours, with no way for me to enter her ( and it was a very local one :doh: ). Hear this happening all the time with other show friends.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

You can go to infodog.com and input your dogs info there. When you want to enter a show you won't need it again, they keep it on file.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I used to keep track in a notebook for Copley and Lush, but now I have more of a mental recall of what style many judges choose, and more of a sense by looking up the record and discussing if a stranger. My particular handling team does not normally allow opting out or following judges. I think 75 percent of show days there is fair judging but a good many too the handler ( including some owner handlers), the grooming style, the class from which shown, and the region influence the judging. One thing about a big handler that is a problem is if they win WD and are showing a special but showing your bitch lol, they might hand her off for fear of winning both and the judge wouldn't then want to seem partial and give BOB and various permutations of inter-team shenanigans. A dog might go BOB in the hander's region and get dumped the next month if the judge is followed too far to someone else's "turf". I dont think advertising plays as much of a part as it used to, but for new or unsure judges a top winning dog is a safe bet and then other judges are "giant killers" and delight in not choosing a well known dog. Professional handlers will sometimes say it doesn't matter who is judging but that is bc they might be picking judges for a special of a different breed or might not want to offend a judge by not entering for a specific dog's welfare when they are going to be showing other dogs for the next 30 years. My focus now is on winning in the group, which is a different ballgame, so something new to figure out. 




cubbysan said:


> Also, very interesting would be if there is a difference between breeder judges and judges other breeds.
> .


You really have to know your breeder judges best of all bc they usually have very strong opinions about the style of dog, and sometimes a point to make about the state of affairs in the breed as they see it. For example, there is one breeder judge who adores Lush but to whom I would not show Mystic or Sayer, and one who loves both Mystic and Sayer to whom I just wouldn't show Lush . Some people will show only to a handful of the same breeder judges over and over again if they have a style of dog that doesn't play well to all comers but a likeminded breeder judge has an affection for the style. I have a sense for example of to whom I would show if I had an English style golden with beautiful structure and who I wouldn't bother. I have an idea of to whom I would show with a workmanlike dog with better structure than breed type or a typee dog with better type than structure etc. Obviously we try to exhibit only dogs with strong breed type, correct structure, and movement, but as you have a weakness in an area your choice of what a judge emphasizes and forgives becomes useful. It would be difficult to do a SDHF that way, because then you need a dog who often surpasses individual preferences and the dog's quality is acknowledged by a solid percentage of judges breeder and all arounders alike. There are always some dogs who transcend all these issues with their quality but no dog wins every day.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I was chatting privately this week with somebody about a judge for a local show (ie less than 3 hours away) in a couple weeks... I had been unsure about whether I wanted to show to this judge because for one reason or other I have "poodle judge" in my mental perception of her. The closest I can come to explaining that perception is when she was replaced last minute at a show a couple years ago - a lot of the non-sporting and terrier breed people were upset. 

I've heard bits and pieces about some people not showing to her because she picks handlers vs dogs. And I think for that reason she doesn't always get the usual people going out of their way to show to her...

I was debating about driving 2.5 hours and staying overnight for a judge like that.. but I want to get back into showing after being off all winter. Shake off the rust before the bigger shows...


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

I'm not organized or fastidious enough to keep notes. Basically once you really devote yourself to showing on a regular basis you (hopefully) start noticing trends. That a particular judge is (hopefully) consistent on the type of dog he rewards in the ring. You start to notice other people/breeders who have a dog that looks like yours, and then you can research each judge and see if they put up something owned by that person. The wildcard is that a judge can only pick something if it is presented to them. It's often hard to evaluate if all they've judged are small shows, or shows way out of your area so you aren't familiar with the winners. 
When I first started showing Fisher I had NO CONCEPT that judges could like different dogs. I figured the prettiest always won. I showed Fisher a LOT before I figured this out!

Currently I'm pretty picky about who I show my dog to, because I don't have the time or finances to show on a whim. Often I'll show only one or two days of a cluster, and not enter the other days. I typically only give a judge a chance if they are sandwiched between two days of "yes" judges, and I'm going to be there anyways, or if it's local and I have to show someone else's dog so might as well. People have actually grumbled when I show up for one day of a 4 or 5 day cluster, win and go home. Well hello, that's not politics, these judges don't know me from Adam...it's called being smart (and efficient!).


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