# Major crate training regression



## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

For those following my poop in the crate thread, you'll know about this. I'm really paranoid and losing sleep over this and I think it deserves another thread because it's a completely new issue! :uhoh:

At 4 months old, Sunny is started to resist the crate at night. He's always hated being crated in the day time, but after the first few days at home, he's never fussed when put in the crate at night! 

4-5 days ago, he started to have a bout of diarrhea, which is when the crate training regression begun. He pooped in his crate 2 nights in a row, once it was uncontrollable diarrhea. The next night, he was crated with no issues. Asked to come out at 2am, let out immediately, had diarrhea, then back in the crate. 

The following few nights, I've been allowing him to come out of the crate immediately in case he actually needs to go. If he's settled and has slept for a few hours in there and he paws at the crate, it usually means he needs to go. If I've just put him in after taking him outside and he's pawing, it means he just wants to sleep outside. The first night he started resisting, it was in and out of the crate 5 times for a whole hour, despite him having been awake for 6 hours straight prior to this. You'd think he'd be too tired to resist! 

For the last 3 nights, he's asked to be let out about 3-4 times during the night, and only once to potty. I can't tolerate the pawing for over 10 minutes, and because there's a high chance of diarrhea, I let him out and just let him sleep out of the crate. Once he's slept for 20 minutes and tired, I get him to go back in the crate, he fusses for a minute, then goes back to sleep. 

I'm afraid he really hates the crate now for a number of reasons: 
1. He's afraid to soil his sleeping area and not be able to tell me. He wants the security of sleeping out in the open so if he needs to poop, he can just go to the door and ring the bell.
2. I've allowed him to sleep out of the crate for parts of the night during the diarrhea phase. 
3. For the past few weeks, I've allowed him to sleep with me on the mattress on the floor once or twice a week, with free roam of the house, so he's had a "taste of freedom". 
4. We have allowed him free roam of the house 3 times now whenever we leave for a short period of time instead of crating.

He used to sleep through the night since 10-11 weeks old, and now he's waking up 2-3 times during the night. Understandable when he has an upset tummy, but now that the diarrhea's clearing up, he just wakes up in the middle of the night just because he doesn't want to be in the crate. What have I done!!! I feel like crate training regression is worse than potty training regression... 

There are a few things I can do... once the diarrhea has 100% cleared up, hopefully within the next day or two, I will not give in to whining and pawing at the crate. I will start feeding him in the crate. I will crate him at least once a day for an hour, which I've been really slack with. 

This is the 5th night in a row that he won't settle. He's pawing at the crate as I type and I just want my full night's sleep back, or at least limit it to ONE interruption in the night. 

I'm scared this is going to continue for weeks, maybe months... I don't think I can tolerate sleepless nights for that long and will probably give in and allow him to sleep out of the crate eventually. He's too young for that. 

This is a bit of an odd issue, but if anyone's heard of a similar experience with a positive/negative outcome, I'd love to hear it. Suggestions would be greatly appreciated, please!


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## Anon-2130948gsoni (Apr 12, 2014)

Griff went through a couple of nights of waking me up to go outside, even though he wasn't dealing with diarrhea. It was a full moon and the critters were out and I just don't think he was sleeping very soundly for whatever reason.

Have you thought about taking out the dividers and giving him more room to stretch out? I graduated Griff to his big dog kennel last week after a couple of those wakeful nights and it seemed to help. 

Maybe your boy just needs more room now that he's growing up?


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## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

I forgot to mention: 

Tonight, I took out the divider, giving him full space of the crate. This may or may not be a good idea considering his recent pooping in the crate fiasco, but perhaps it'll make him feel less anxious...? He has taken to sleeping on this memory foam mattress recently so I put it in the crate for him. It's so cosy with lots of toys and blankets in there. Even I'd sleep in there. I do fit. So far he's fussed in there 3 times in the last 30 minutes. I just went up to him, laid on the floor and stuck my fingers through the crate. He put his head back down to sleep. Does he want me to be close to him? Does he want to be able to see me? The crate is covered on all sides. 

Hmm..


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## Anon-2130948gsoni (Apr 12, 2014)

See, great minds think alike .

Is it warm where you are? Maybe he needs more ventilation?


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## Carmel (Feb 9, 2015)

I think if you just sit back and think it through, like you are doing, it may help. I have been through this will all my pups, and eventually (usually by age 2 years) they are completely out of a crate except for showing. You say your pup has diarrhea, and when I have it, it hurts. Cramps, anxiety, all those things I'm sure Sunny feels. You didn't say why you think it will go away soon though, so I'm assuming you found the source and maybe the vet gave him some Metronidazole to clear it up. Obviously at this puppy stage, she can eat things she is not supposed to which is another reason to crate him, for his own safety. That is really the main reason I crate, is for my pup's safety. So I'm thinking this whole thing is going on because he really doesn't feel well, and is anxious to be alone in his crate for the reasons you stated above. I would probably just give him a little slack on this until he's feeling completely better again, and then return to normal crate times.


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## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

Noreaster, I posted that comment before reading yours, haha! 
So yes now he's got the full adult crate now. It doesn't seem to be helping so far. The only thing that's changed is instead of sleeping on a cool mat, he sleeps on the memory foam mattress he seems to like to hang out on during the day. The cool mat is placed on top of the mattress on one end of the crate, so if he likes that, then he can go sleep there. If things don't improve over night, I will try to move the cool mat over to the end he always sleeps on. 
I'm so paranoid I even emailed my breeder about this. She said there's a possibility that he's reached the age where he wants to challenge the rules. I thought that happens way later down the track!!!


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## West1134 (Nov 3, 2014)

Have you tried a crate cover to darken the crate? When we were first crate training Kona, he would whine a lot, and we eventually got a crate cover and it helped significantly.

Also, I think you might be right that the "taste of freedom" is at least a small part of the reasons he doesn't want to be crated any longer. We recently have been going through crate resistance (our pup is 9 months old though) and have decided to quit using the crate (unless we are traveling, etc.) and have started training Kona to sleep on the floor in our bedroom. We are only a week into it, and the first 5 days were brutal with him waking us up all night moving around, or jumping up on the bed, but the past two nights have been awesome, and I've actually gotten some sleep. Anyways, I know your not to this stage yet with your pup, and I certainly wouldn't recommend not crating him at 4 months old. 

I'd say once the diarrhea goes away (chicken and rice for up to 5 days if you haven't already been doing something like that works great, our pup has an insanely sensitive stomach and we've been down the diarrhea road A LOT! unfortunately) I'd start covering the crate and not letting in. The pup will eventually learn that the crying, pawing at the crate isn't going to get them anywhere.

Hope it gets better soon, I know eventually it will. Good Luck!


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## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

Noreaster, the idea to give him the full crate was thanks to you and your great mind alone! 

Carmel, that's a good perspective to see things from. I'm not certain he's okay yet, he hasn't had diarrhea for around 24 hours, and I guess that's not enough time to completely write it off. He hasn't been displaying any signs of discomfort or anxiety, otherwise I would let him just sleep out of the crate. Although last night at around 2am, he pawed on the crate, I opened the door, and he stayed in the crate and went back to sleep until 5:30. Maybe he likes knowing he has the freedom to go out if he suddenly needs to poop without being worried that I won't let him out?
Incase it's not a diarrhea anxiety thing, giving him some slack will make him think sleeping out of the crate as a regular thing rather than a once in a while privilege. 

I'm not concerned about his safety out of the crate though. He has proven to me on countless times that he is not destructive. Just sleeps, and if he's awake early, plays with his toys for a while. The crate is in the same area as the backdoor where he goes out to potty, and I sleep in a bed a few steps from him so he shouldn't feel alone! Perhaps I should sleep right beside him like I used to the first month at home?


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## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

West1134 said:


> Have you tried a crate cover to darken the crate? When we were first crate training Kona, he would whine a lot, and we eventually got a crate cover and it helped significantly.
> 
> Also, I think you might be right that the "taste of freedom" is at least a small part of the reasons he doesn't want to be crated any longer. We recently have been going through crate resistance (our pup is 9 months old though) and have decided to quit using the crate (unless we are traveling, etc.) and have started training Kona to sleep on the floor in our bedroom. We are only a week into it, and the first 5 days were brutal with him waking us up all night moving around, or jumping up on the bed, but the past two nights have been awesome, and I've actually gotten some sleep. Anyways, I know your not to this stage yet with your pup, and I certainly wouldn't recommend not crating him at 4 months old.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much, I hope it gets better soon too! I'm feeling exhausted! 
His crate is covered on all 4 sides, nice and dark. It always has been. Ideally I'd like to crate him during bedtime until he's 9 months too, but I don't see that happening. Is the point of the crate so they don't have accidents and get into things? He doesn't do any of those things (yet), but I think not crating makes him want to have a 3am play (by himself) which is annoying for me to listen to, and he holds his bladder less longer. 

He's been a chicken and rice diet for 3 days now, so hopefully things will all clear up really soon!


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## Anon-2130948gsoni (Apr 12, 2014)

Okay, I just went back to your first post to check...he's four months old now?

I'm thinking teething, like Chritty suggested. I don't know if you've ever had braces, but I had them at age 34 and the first few days were terrible and I think teething must be like that. If sleeping next to his crate helps soothe him and keeps him crated, maybe try that? 

Also ice cubes might be helpful? If you search on teething there are lots of good suggestions here.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

I would not consider the pooping in the crate as regression since he was sick. Having diarrhea leaves a poor pup no choice sometimes. He was probably distressed that he went in the crate. 

I would say, take care of that first. Have his stool checked for parasites, or to make sure something else isn't going on, treat the diarrhea, calm his tummy down (rice is good for that with some boiled chicken added in). Don't worry about the crate stuff. His tummy is probably cramped, he is uncomfortable. Once he is better, I'm sure he'll be better in the crate.


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## Rkaymay (May 12, 2014)

He might not get into stuff now - but it is coming quickly.  Remember, dogs don't think in privileges. He has no idea that you let him sleep out of the crate once in a while just because he's good. I agree with Noreaster about the teething thing - it is miserable. Zelda has been sleeping out of her crate since she was 6 months old, but if I put her in it some night she would have zero issue, and she didn't like her crate at that age either. Though, I was very "this is your crate you sleep here zero exceptions sorry". In my defense, she peed on my bed 5 or 6 times.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Chloe turns fourteen weeks today. She is starting to not like her area in the kitchen. When she goes out for her last potty at night she runs into the other room. My mom sometimes takes her to their bedroom for awhile. Then she brings her back down. She doesn't wine or cry though.


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## momo_ (Dec 15, 2014)

Hi all, 

Just an update on last night. He was crated at 11pm and took 5 minutes to settle. He pawed on the crate about 3 times in 30 minutes, then I heard nothing from him until around 1am. I went to check on him, saw that was still laying down, so I laid down beside the crate, stuck my fingers in, and he laid his head back down. He slept until 6:30!!! 

I think I'm supposed to say "touch wood" or something. 

Today he's had two big play sessions, once at the dog park and once for over an hour with a kid next door who adores him. He should be very tired all night, but I'm expecting a middle of the night potty break as he only pooped once today! Yesterday things were looking solid, today it's quite mushy again.


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