# Best and Worst things about Golden Retrievers



## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

There are no worse things about Goldens. Some "not so favorite things" are..

Biting= land sharks (this stops)
Shedding= I barely notice it after living with an Akita (this doesn't stop)
Maturing= takes a long time. Sometimes not until they're 3 yrs old.

Compared to other breeds, they are angels


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## mama2three (Jan 14, 2013)

What is a land shark?


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Hmmmm.... I wouldnt say 'bad' things but some things to consider are

*the shedding!! Luckily ours is a mix and his coat us black so his fur blends right in to 90% of my wardrobe. 

*the energy level. Some goldens are super high energy and all goldens require at least 30 minutes of exercise a day. 

*all dogs require training. Some hot buttons we've encountered during training is 1) pulling on leash and my pup is only 45lbs... Imagine a 60-75 lb dog. 2) impulse control issues (also known as excessive greeting disorder). My pup is reactive (not aggressive) to everything!! ADHD to the max. 

*they are land sharks as puppies. And puppy teeth can rip skin open quickly. I split my index finger open because he bit and i pulled. 


Overall though, goldens are amazing and my puppy is perfect, even when he's not. 


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

The best and worst is actually the SAME thing. LOL.

A golden's coat - fully grown, clean, groomed - is a beautiful thing. Whatever "color" the golden is, people will turn their heads and STARE and reach to touch that coat. LOL. 

Worst? 

This song sums it up.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

mama2three said:


> What is a land shark?


All teeth all the time. Puppies learn with their mouths and they will put anything and everything in their mouths. They also like to mouth on humans. Different ppl have different opinions of how to handle it. It depends on your situation. We have no kids, so we let him mouth on us to develop his bite inhibition, to develop a soft mouth. But as he ages, we're reinforcing no teeth on skin. 


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Bad things:

Shedding.
Mouthy.
Relatively high social needs.
Relatively high exercise needs.
Relatively high stimulation needs.

All of those things are part of the good parts of the breed: a working retriever needs the double coat (hence the shedding) and strong retrieval instincts (mouthy). They also need to be smart and athletic.

Sometimes you see problem behaviors based on those characteristics, though. They tend to be landsharks as puppies and to keep nipping well into adulthood if they're not taught otherwise. The combination of sociability and athleticism can make them problem jumpers if they aren't taught how to properly gain the attention they want. It can also lead them to accidentally maul children and the elderly while greeting inappropriately. Or they haul their owners over to new people and dogs.

All dogs require a serious commitment to care and training, but with Goldens, there are some particular things that you have to be up for or it's a bad breed for you. I've seen a few instances in which people have a lovely Golden, but it's a bad match. Sometimes, it's people with young kids. The children can't be trained to teach the dog good behavior, so he keeps practicing his jumping, nipping, and other problem behaviors on the kids, so he doesn't get trained out of it. Other folks with little ones are able to pull it off, so I'm not 100% sure what the key difference is.

I've also seen instances where one family member had "alpha" mentality and was hard on the dog (not "abusive" by most standards, but physical and intimidating). Two times, the dogs have actually drawn blood with a fear bite, and both times, the dogs were simply reacting to what they thought the people would do. Both times, also, the dogs were very "soft." Some dogs can hold up to significant punishment like that, but with a soft Golden, you can get fear behaviors (inappropriate peeing, slinking around, flinching, fear of strangers, staying at arm's length, and finally biting).

So being harsh, intimidating, or pain-based in your teaching of a Golden can turn a sociable, soft dog into a dangerous fear biter. Goldens typically respond _wonderfully_ to techniques that rely entirely or almost entirely on praise, treats, games, and toys as rewards.


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## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

1. Well, they are people dogs, so if you don't want your life to be golden-filled it is a bad thing. 

2. Need lots and lots of exercise.

3. Need lots of affection (see number one).

4. Land shark for certain the first few months.


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## Mayve (Aug 21, 2012)

Hmmm....well Sage is only 11 weeks old. So far the bad is the biting but we are working through it. She is much better now than at 8wks. Other than that, and mind you this is just part of a Golden (the biting) I haven't seen any negatives. She's still young though, so perhaps I will come up with some.


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## tania (Dec 22, 2011)

I think tippykayak's comments some up all what I wanted to say.

All I can do, I think is to list the books I read to deal in a good way with my super mouthy and energetic puppy:

- Ian Dumbar (Before and After getting your puppy) 
- Leslie McDevitt (Control Unleashed - puppy, and all the DVDs with games) - life saver for me!!! I have learned so much with her book!! Mostly about teaching calmness and respecting the dog for who he/she actually is.
- Grisha Steward (BAT) 
- Turid Rugaas (Calming Signals)
- this forum! Seriously, every time I had a question about something a lot of people chimed in and that helped me so much. 
- youtube: 
kikopup channel: Dog Training - YouTube
tab 289: Dog training explained - YouTube

Also, it is crucial to socialize your pup with other people, dogs, sounds, sceneries, smells, everything! And... maintaining your pup mentally engaged with food toys like kongs, wobbles, etc. I say this because as a first time puppy parent I didn't know much.. so my puppy destroyed the wall because she was probably bored and non very well exercised. (I guess this goes as an example of the "bad" side: you really need to make time to exercise them. A simple walk to my dog won't do it. She need to run long distances, fetch, swim, etc. But what seems to be a negative side, actually is not negative at all: she loves the excitement and I learned to channel that with our outings and plan to do some sports with her in the future.

My dog is a ball of fire in terms of energy and now I see that I really enjoy that. I love training her and going out with her. 

Hope that helps!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> (line#1) So being harsh, intimidating, or pain-based in your teaching of a Golden can turn a sociable, soft dog into a dangerous fear biter.
> 
> (line#2) Goldens typically respond _wonderfully_ to techniques that rely entirely or almost entirely on praise, treats, games, and toys as rewards.


I'm in an overly pedantic mood today, but I have to point this out. 

The attached scribble shows what I think is the correct scale of things. Dog training should not be lumped into one absolute. There are lots of people with different ideas of what they think they themselves are doing right. 

There is a Green area between the two lines above - in my opinion, as well as a cazillion other people including my R+ puppy/obedience class instructor. 

I think if you really looked at things in general - there are four different types of dog trainers out there. The line I drew after the second type (the muddled one) is the red line that I hope nobody crosses. The second type, I think is where a lot of new dog owners are.... I think that is where you have people who only correct their dogs when they are angry or when they are in public and give their dogs treats when they are jumping up and otherwise looking cute. <- My mom is one of those types of trainers. >.< I'm always reminding her not to give the dogs treats when their front feet are off the ground. :uhoh:


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## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Well, I call my 9mo old Monster puppy for a reason!
She is in a really bratty teenage puppy stage right now and has reverted to jumping and biting (not really hard) and overall being obnoxious.
I used to joke that they were so cute as a self defense mechanism!

The best thing is the dog that she will turn into with some time, work, and love!


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## Tennyson (Mar 26, 2011)

I never found anything bad about Mick.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

Megora said:


> Dog training should not be lumped into one absolute. There are lots of people with different ideas of what they think they themselves are doing right.


Nicely said Megora! 


As far as bad things about goldens. For me I would say THE HAIR! And the fact that they think EVERYONE loves them. Everything else is awesome.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Megora said:


> I'm in an overly pedantic mood today, but I have to point this out.


Then let me one up your pedantry. A linear scale that expresses training as a dichotomy is totally inaccurate. Permissiveness isn't the extreme version of force-free training any more than abuse is the extreme version of using a correction.

I think I was super clear in expressing that harsh, pain-based methods that use intimidation are typically bad for Goldens and can turn some Goldens into fear biters. I didn't say anything about mainstream training techniques like reasonable correction, and I see things like alpha rolling as outdated, not as extreme versions of reasonable corrections.

I do, generally, agree that there's a fairly wide road of training methods that work well. The same dog could thrive under a whole set of different philosophies. I disagree, however, in presenting abuse and permissiveness on the same continuum with correction and reward.

In fact, effective force-free trainers are typically very, very far away from permissiveness, and you can be a high-force trainer and permissive (and thus ineffective) simply by being inconsistent.

Lastly, I don't think anybody sees themselves as being abusive or permissive, but they certainly are some times, and we owe it to dogs to call out abuse where we see it, even if the handler wouldn't agree that what he is doing is outside the realm of acceptable training.

Hitting dogs, for example, is still a mainstream training thing, and I have no qualms about calling it outdated, unnecessary, and cruel. And I don't see it as simply a stronger version of correction.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I also think whoever wrote that graph doesn't understand force free training. I don't "drag out" problems by choosing not to use commonly-advised corrections. I like the force free methods I've learned because they're so darn fast. I get to watch wizard trainers at my local center who can turn a problem behavior around in minutes. Pullers, biters, jumpers, you name it, all stopping their problem behavior within _minutes_.

I'm not a force free die hard partisan. I admire those that _never_ correct with discomfort, surprise, or intimidation. Personally, I try to _minimize_ the use of those corrections, but I'm not 100% "positive."


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

No worst things here. I have had three Goldens so far and love, love, love the breed.
Big, gentle love bugs that want to be with you. 

I never had an aggressive Golden and actually have never encountered one either.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

For me.... 

worse: 
mouthy - very mouthy and this can lead to eating inedibles.... 
mouthy - towards people as puppies and if not handled well can lead to nipping goldens like having things in their mouth but this needs to be handled appropriately 

needy - I personally like a dog that is confident enough to do their own thing occasionally. I personally am not a fan of velcro dogs... goldens can be very needy and often need encouragement to not become so needy that they get neurotic... your dog should learn that he can be by himself or amuse himself and that you are goign to be busy sometimes. 

health - goldens can have some health issues ... some of their own doing ie. eating stuff, some that they just get... those health issues are definitely a negative. 

exercise and energy - goldens can get neurotic if they do not get enough exercise this can manifest into destructiveness and other neurotic behaviors like excessive barking 

a great golden is made not born.... I have seen goldens get totally neurotic due to owners neurosis and totally out of control wihtout training.... much like any breed... 
but these are the things that I would say are more negative... along with of course the shedding ....


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> Then let me one up your pedantry. A linear scale that expresses training as a dichotomy is totally inaccurate. Permissiveness isn't the extreme version of force-free training any more than abuse is the extreme version of using a correction.


Tippy - I'm running out of pedantic steam right now (I need more sugar I think) so I'm going to focus on this portion of your comment. 

Have you ever sat and watched people train? Like not focusing on your dog or paying attention to anything else - literally watching and learning what works and doesn't work. And not just watching "experts", but those people who are locked onto a concept and attempting to apply to their dogs? 

I have seen on the one extreme end somebody correcting their dog too harshly for that specific dog. The correction would not have even DENTED some dogs (labs!) attitudes. This dog (irish setter) would shrivel when she knew a correction was coming. 

That's the one extreme - on the left side of that line I drew. I wrote the graph, btw, based on what I've learned over the past 20 years. I thought that was obvious when I described the scribble.  

On the other extreme end - I have seen people like that as well.

The owner of this dog will not use any corrections with her dogs and as a result both dogs have very basic problems that drive everyone NUTS. And these problems put her in a corner with her hands tied, because treats and positive energy does not work when the bad behavior is self-rewarding. She has been embarrassed completely by her youngest dog who is THE WORST. 

Both dogs are obedience breeds that are known for being very obedient and a quick learning. They also are known for being independant, unlike goldens. So more likely to do their own thing because they want to.  

I think there should be a very delicate balance when it comes to most dogs. But even if you are to the right of that dividing line on that graph, I think you still will wind up with a dog that suffers less harm than those trained by people on the left of that graph. It's why I hate suggesting fairly good corrections that stop a problem like biting or pulling or barking or sniffing or any other "issues" that puppy owners have, because if an owner is muddling around with tools they don't understand or didn't learn in person, it can cause more problems than just suggesting purely positive methods - that sometimes are ineffective or painfully slow to work. 

My instructor for one of the classes I take - tends to be more positive handling because she had to be with her flatcoats who can be softer. Her beloved boy who she just lost to cancer this past year - could not handle most corrections. 

What I like about her is that she recognizes that different dogs need to be handled differently. Most goldens are not going to turn into jelly if they receive a correction. And there are some harder headed breeds out there who really could make a fool out of their owners if their behaviors are allowed to go uncorrected.

ETA - And fwiw - my puppy class instructor who emphasizes no corrections and R+ methods with puppies and adult dogs.... her dog is dog aggressive and fearful anyway. Sometimes it's just in the breed (border collie) or breeding.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

They die, that is the worse thing, if only they could live longer.


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## Castaway (Dec 19, 2011)

The best thing - When they say "Man's Best Friend" -- they're not kidding. 

The worst thing - They don't live as long as we do.

As for the other things... the puppy stages, the shedding, etc... they're all just minor annoyances that we learn to deal with.

Puppies can tend to be a handful. The training period can be frustrating at times, and requires a lot of patience. But it's very rewarding.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

I think the worst thing about Goldens is their reputation for being such wonderful family dogs - which they CAN be - so new owners are totally unprepared for the "land sharks" and the jumping, and the knocking the kids down - if there are kids involved - and then it becomes the fault of the puppy for just being a Golden puppy.


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## Waggily Tail (Jan 11, 2009)

They are thieves. They steal your spot on the couch when you get up, and they steal your heart. 

It's a lot of hard work, just like any other commitment we make.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Megora said:


> Have you ever sat and watched people train? Like not focusing on your dog or paying attention to anything else - literally watching and learning what works and doesn't work. And not just watching "experts", but those people who are locked onto a concept and attempting to apply to their dogs?


Lots and lots and lots. It's what I do whenever it's not our turn, and it's what I do when we arrive early or stay late. I look at what people do and what the instructors say to them. And I've seen people who are locked into a concept and thus are ineffective with their dogs. I also look especially for people who are working on what I'm working on so I can see what I might do better.

What I reject is the idea that it's a two dimensional continuum. The difference between an effective reward-based trainer and an ineffective one isn't the willingness to apply mild corrections. It's the skill of the trainer. I see one trainer at my agility class who's somewhat willing to "correct" her dog but is ineffective in rewarding. She lures really badly when she shouldn't, and she leaves the food in front of her dog's face when he does do something right, so he doesn't actually get rewarded with it in a timely fashion. She's constantly missing opportunities to reward him. And she is willing to speak sternly to her dog, which he doesn't like, but he's smart enough to know that if he's off leash, she can't do anything to him. She's ineffective because she's not consistent and she doesn't apply the techniques well.

I also see a fairly experienced agility person who's on her 4th or 5th dog who accidentally punishes her dog all the time. She's very willing to correct, and she's pretty effective with it, but she's constantly being stern with her dog and pushing her into position, so the dog has learned to flinch a little, which I hate seeing.

I see another trainer who NEVER corrects her dog in my presence (few of us do at my agility class), but her timing and communication are amazing. Her dog comes along faster than all the other dogs (including Comet) because she's so consistent and effective. Her dog's not terribly soft (all American mix), but it's irrelevant.

I don't see the three of them on a spectrum. If anything, the ineffective people are closer to center. Your way of putting it makes "balanced" training a logical conclusion, where you mix intimidation and discomfort. But training's not just an either/or spectrum like that. Where does consistency fit? Clarity? Timing?



Megora said:


> And these problems put her in a corner with her hands tied, because treats and positive energy does not work when the bad behavior is self-rewarding. She has been embarrassed completely by her youngest dog who is THE WORST.


If a bad behavior is self-rewarding, you're right that treats and positive energy don't work. You have to find a way to make it non-rewarding if you want to get rid of the behavior. You don't, however, have to make it unpleasant. Failure to remove the reward will make punishment-based methods fail too, btw.



Megora said:


> it can cause more problems than just suggesting purely positive methods - that sometimes are ineffective or painfully slow to work.


There are a few things where I'll still correct my dogs, but I disagree with the assumption that correction avoidance necessarily slows down a process. Typically, it's easier to be clear and the dog actually comes along faster.



Megora said:


> Most goldens are not going to turn into jelly if they receive a correction. And there are some harder headed breeds out there who really could make a fool out of their owners if their behaviors are allowed to go uncorrected.


I agree that most Goldens can handle a significant amount of moderate correction. That's why I was careful to use words like "intimidation," "fear," and "harsh." However, I totally disagree that being a more hard-headed breed means you can't be trained with a low or no correction model. The key is non-rewarding what you don't want and rewarding what you do, either way. A hard-headed breed can take a stronger correction without developing fear, but that doesn't mean you need the correction in the first place.


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## Phillyfisher (Jan 9, 2008)

A lot of good best things and worst things about goldens here. All true. The best wort thing about goldens is that they do require a lot of training to be that wonderful balanced dog we love. Those that invest that personal time in all that training end up with a dog they know inside and out, and a dog that knows them the same way. I love that I can just look at Tucker and pretty mug know what he is going to do- good or bad! Those who don't take the time to really know their dog never have any idea of what they are missing.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I think Tippy - if you reread my comments earlier or look at that chart, you may find that I agree to a certain extent with you. And that is something I hope you really keep in mind is that people who use corrections in their training are not always just using the same corrections used 40 years ago or whatever. Dog training has vastly changed over the years - the last 10 especially. 



> I don't see the three of them on a spectrum. If anything, the ineffective people are closer to center. Your way of putting it makes "balanced" training a logical conclusion, where you mix intimidation and discomfort. But training's not just an either/or spectrum like that. Where does consistency fit? Clarity? Timing?


If you don't see them, you aren't looking clearly enough. Darnit.  If somebody is using corrections in their training that are harmful to the dog, that falls to the left of the dividing line. 

Where I put myself on the graph is between that middle and the extreme right. And plenty of trainers that I train under fall in the same spot. They use corrections. They just do not use them as a rule to get things done. And yes, they definitely have their ineffective days too. I DO. And it's my fault, not the methods.  

I train with people who fall under the balanced middle - and these are people who tend to use corrections a bit more actively to stop behaviors (like ear pinches, for example). Their dogs are very well trained and not fearful or damaged by the handling, because the corrections are balanced by praise and rewards and otherwise positive handling. 

Ineffective - generally is based on application. Where I see 100% positive training being ineffective for most *pet owners* is it takes them months to stop a nuisance bad behavior that using an adequate or timely correction stops in a day or two. And some of these nuisance bad behaviors become worse when the dogs go through the hormonal teen years or as the dogs self-reward while performing these bad behaviors. 

Probably a good example that I can think of that especially applies in this thread is my Bertie is teething right now. Meaning he will bite everything he can wrap his puppy jowls around. And when he bites, it does hurt a tiny bit, despite him not actually having a lot of teeth in there.  

I follow a mixture of positive or R+ training methods as well as common sense correction when it comes to things like this. As a result, if I say "no bite", Bertie immediately withdraws his mouth from my arm or from Jacks' ears. 

Same thing with jumping. I will apply a correction and say "off" when he jumps up on me and praise/reward when his feet touch the ground. As of today, he will get off on command alone, no need for a correction. 

Again, the problem with sharing these training methods on an online forum is the danger of one of those muddlers using the method to hurt their dog and then instead of taking responsibility for their own poor application of a method, they blame the method for the damage. >.<


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## mama2three (Jan 14, 2013)

Thank you so much for all the wonderful responces everyone! This is like a whole new world to me! I am so excited to add our new golden baby to our family and reading this has helped me feel better prepared for some of the things we will encounter! We do have 3 young children aged 3.5, 6, and 8.5. How can I best deal with the biting faze with them?


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## Capt Jack (Dec 29, 2011)

The good far outways the bad they are the most loveing beings on the planet.Bad they can destroy a yard,shoes & anything left within reach when their young.Secret don't leave anything within reach.Sweetie climbed in bed this morning with a sock dropped it when I told her to and laid down next to me with her head on the pillow.How can you be mad after that!
My best tip from me is socialize when your pup it's young Jack can still be an ahole to other dogs if I don't watch him Sweetie wouldn't hurt a fly if it bit her.
I gree they are alot of hard work if you want great dog but it's worth it for me & we're still (all three of us a work) in progress.Been on here awhile now & I still learn something everyday


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Megora said:


> I think Tippy - if you reread my comments earlier or look at that chart, you may find that I agree to a certain extent with you. And that is something I hope you really keep in mind is that people who use corrections in their training are not always just using the same corrections used 40 years ago or whatever. Dog training has vastly changed over the years - the last 10 especially.


I think where we disagree is the importance of active punishment of something that's undesired. If your dog jumps up, do you think "let me make jumping up slightly unpleasant so he really gets it before I reward him for putting all four on the floor?" Or do you think, "the important part is making sure he doesn't find the jump rewarding and that I reward him for putting all four on the floor."

I think that's the key difference. I no longer think that disobedience needs to be unpleasant, and I don't think removing the unpleasant part slows me down.



Megora said:


> Ineffective - generally is based on application. Where I see 100% positive training being ineffective for most pet owners is it takes them months to stop a nuisance bad behavior that using an adequate or timely correction stops in a day or two. And some of these nuisance bad behaviors become worse when the dogs go through the hormonal teen years or as the dogs self-reward while performing these bad behaviors.


If you can't prevent the self-reward, the technique can't work. So by definition, if the dog is being self-rewarded, the training is ineffective, whether you use punishment or not. Letting a dog self-reward and then punishing him is just confusing.



Megora said:


> Probably a good example that I can think of that especially applies in this thread is my Bertie is teething right now. Meaning he will bite everything he can wrap his puppy jowls around. And when he bites, it does hurt a tiny bit, despite him not actually having a lot of teeth in there.
> 
> 
> I follow a mixture of positive or R+ training methods as well as common sense correction when it comes to things like this. As a result, if I say "no bite", Bertie immediately withdraws his mouth from my arm or from Jacks' ears.


And, like I said, I've had my own puppies and client puppies not biting within minutes, with a day or two needed to help redirect the urge consistently. With dogs that already bite habitually, it takes longer, but I doubt it takes any longer than punishing the bite. So if you don't _need_ the punishment, and it doesn't speed things up, why use it?



Megora said:


> Same thing with jumping. I will apply a correction and say "off" when he jumps up on me and praise/reward when his feet touch the ground. As of today, he will get off on command alone, no need for a correction.


And I've done this one lots and lots of times, even with habitual jumpers. Train the sit, non-reward the jump. Boom, done. Again, the dog doesn't need to know that jumping is unpleasant in any way. It just can't be rewarding.



Megora said:


> I consider myself a balanced trainer - but I think I'm more to the right of the middle. I favor rewarding and positive reinforcement in all things first.


I consider myself balanced too, but I only use aversive methods when I can't figure out any other way to remove the reward. We differ on the degree to which we value aversives, not the degree with which we value rewards. I just don't see the 2-D spectrum as a useful way of visualizing that.



Megora said:


> Where I was motivated to put that graph in there is when I see people implying that training is a black/white issue. That all corrections were painful and harmful, and create fear aggression and other problems.


Nobody did that, and I certainly didn't.



Megora said:


> Even people who will not use traditional corrections (leash pops or face grabbing) in their training still use certain types of corrections in their training and freely recognize that they ARE still corrections.


There's a semantic argument here that I don't care to get into. I use the word "correction" to describe something you do to decrease an undesired behavior (P+). It can be super mild, and the more mild, the less likely it is to carry side effects.

I just don't think correcting a dog for what you don't want is necessary for shaping behavior. I think training is more fun when you avoid it wherever practical. And I don't think it slows down the desired change in behavior.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Okay Tippy - we may need to take this to a different thread before the mod-ladies warn us. I know this is very unfair to the OP. Shut up and let me have the last word!! *teasing about the shut up - serious about taking it elsewhere* 

I agree that some dogs are mouthy as a rule. It's what they do when they get hyped up. The methods (gently correct the bad mouthing and immediately give the puppy an OK alternative to chew on) that stopped Bertie's biting practically the same day have never worked on Jacks. A different method (me training "settle" works best with Jacks - and that involves me taking him by the collar and scruff). 



> Letting a dog self-reward and then punishing him is just confusing.


No - it means your timing is poor. Or you made a mistake and it's a "shame on me" moment instead of shame on the dog. 

Probably a good example would be this past class when I went to reward Berts for holding his 20 second stay, I wound up flinging the treat. It went flying - and so did my puppy and he self-rewarded the break because a 4 month old puppy running after a treat is a speed of light affair. : That was a "shame on me" moment. I put Bertie back in his stay and rewarded him DOUBLY when he stayed correctly (and I didn't fling any treats). 



> Nobody did that, and I certainly didn't.


I captured your two lines earlier in the thread. They seemed to indicate a black/white viewpoint.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

mama2three said:


> Thank you so much for all the wonderful responces everyone! This is like a whole new world to me! I am so excited to add our new golden baby to our family and reading this has helped me feel better prepared for some of the things we will encounter! We do have 3 young children aged 3.5, 6, and 8.5. How can I best deal with the biting faze with them?


Never leave the kids alone with the puppy. Never. Don't let them pick the puppy up and carry it around. Teach them to stand perfectly still when the puppy gets crazy, not to squeal and scream and run around - that will only make things worse.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Megora said:


> Okay Tippy - we may need to take this to a different thread before the mod-ladies warn us. I know this is very unfair to the OP. Shut up and let me have the last word!! *teasing about the shut up - serious about taking it elsewhere*


I think we've both expressed our points of view thoroughly and civilly, and I'm happy to let the thread return to its regularly scheduled programming.


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## Vinnie's Mom (Jun 9, 2012)

mama2three said:


> What is a land shark?


I don't know if anyone specifically answered your question but you probably figured it out by now.

Land shark is the affectionate name we call our little bitey puppies. Those puppy teeth are so sharp they can easily draw blood when they bite. I joined this forum after I got my first and current Golden. I have no regrets but that for me was the worst thing. I don't mind the shedding so much because my husband does all the vacuuming. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## kjohnstone82 (Sep 24, 2012)

From my experience with Jasper:
Bad things- Jumping (but with time and patience that is so much better now)
Biting (puppy phase, soon gets better)
Good things- he is a big goofball
super friendly
lovely temperament
my boy


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## luvbuzz (Oct 27, 2010)

Good things:
1) extremely loving, want to be with you, insist that you give them attention
2) easy to train as long as you are consistent
Bad things:
1) Require regular exercise (though this is not bad for me)
2) Cancer, health issues


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## debra1704 (Feb 22, 2012)

Best: they adore everyone!
Worst: they try to eat everything when they're puppies (rocks, bugs, socks)


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## tobi2 (Jan 4, 2008)

I love my golden boy. He is 5 now and my best friend. He cuddles and he is sweet and he listens. 

He's done all of the cutesy bad dog things like eating shoes and underwear and jumping.

My biggest thing to warn you of is that there is a HUGE range of personality types. Mine for instance would never be a fear biter. He has so much confidence, we have the opposite problem. He can be rude to people and dogs. He is amazing with children, puppies, kittens, or juveniles of any species. He knows the difference. 

My guy at 5 has more energy than my 2yr old border collie and reacts more to high energy situations. He is oversized and doesn't have a lot of coat, so his shedding doesn't bother me much compared to my other dogs. 

I've run a rescue for American Eskimo Dogs with behaviour issues, seeing dozens of dogs. My golden is by far the hardest to train. He is not sensitive at all to gentle corrections.... Which by the way, is what makes him an excellent therapy dog. 

Keep in mind that goldens can be many things. Some are sensitive and need to be treated softly; some require extreme consistency. I eventually resorted to training mine with a static shock collar. 

I think the most important thing is to put time and money into training.if you have any problems, immediately pay for private training in your home to see where the problem lies. Puppy classes are great, but they aren't the solution for problems at home. Act early and you will nip things in the bud.

I love my boy. He is not a dog for beginners. My brother has a golden as his first dog and he is the sweetest, easiest dog you will ever meet. 


Have fun with your dog, but be proactive. All the goldens I've met have the potential to be awesome family dogs.

 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## princess heidi (Jan 10, 2013)

from tippykayak:
"And, like I said, I've had my own puppies and client puppies not biting within minutes, with a day or two needed to help redirect the urge consistently."

can u share how?


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## CleosMom (Sep 3, 2012)

mama2three said:


> What is a land shark?


I have a 5 month old, Rocky, and my hands are covered with knicks. Just break the skin, lil teeth knicks. I sometimes think people are looking at them, thinking I'm doing it to myself! haha. They also burn from the nawing. Maybe not burn, but are sore. 

It happens when I brush him. He loves to be brushed and softly naws on my hands -- which is probably my fault. I let him but will tell him no if he bites. Once I wave that finger and say NO, don't bite! He stops.


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## tania (Dec 22, 2011)

Oh.. I forgot to mention: I love watching the... ZOOMIES!!!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

princess heidi said:


> from tippykayak:
> "And, like I said, I've had my own puppies and client puppies not biting within minutes, with a day or two needed to help redirect the urge consistently."
> 
> can u share how?


I talked about it a bit over here. But just to be clear about expectations: I usually tell people it takes a couple of weeks of consistency to get in a pup's head, and I think that's true for most folks new to the breed.

I'm able to do it a lot faster at this point, and I mention that I can do it that fast in order to demonstrate that a force-free method doesn't mean a slow method. But I think it's more realistic for new puppy owners to expect that they'll need to put in a couple of weeks of managing with great consistency before they get it to fade away, regardless of the method used.

For example, this summer, I was working with a Westie who had been taken from his litter at 6 weeks and had been biting his owner for about 2 weeks. He stopped biting me about 20 minutes into our session because it just didn't work and I had shown him several other ways to interact positively with me. He learned really quickly that I was the guy who dispensed treats and games for polite puppies who sit and give attention. He still bit her for a couple more weeks as she retrained him, partly because they already had that history of 2 weeks of nipping together, and partly because she was still learning good communication and timing.

I really, really didn't want to sound as braggy as I feel that I do at this point, but I keep hearing that force free methods typically take longer, and they simply don't, at least in the context of puppy manners like we're talking about here.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Tippy - I don't mean to be critical, but that method would never work with either of my guys. And I'm shuddering at the idea of being chewed on by a young golden puppy - particularly as their baby teeth are so sharp (being mouthed by an adult dog is nothing compared to being mouthed by a puppy).

As far as Jacks is concerned, he does exactly what you recommend, and it caused him to have a bleeding sore on his neck from puppy teeth. <- I was upset, of course, when I found that sore. Thankfully it healed instead of turning into a hot spot, but it could have gotten that bad based on the area where the sore was. That was the point I decided to start extending the "NO, No bite" training to not just me but also Jacks, since Jacks would not correct Bertie. 

In the case you find yourself being gnawed on like a rawhide bone, what exactly do you do then?  That is what I meant by 100% positive methods not necessarily being 100% effective in a timely fashion in those very basic situations that DO affect puppy owners. Especially those who own golden puppies who interact with the world around them through their mouths (they eat it, chew on it, or bark at it).


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Megora said:


> Tippy - I don't mean to be critical, but that method would never work with either of my guys. And I'm shuddering at the idea of being chewed on by a young golden puppy - particularly as their baby teeth are so sharp (being mouthed by an adult dog is nothing compared to being mouthed by a puppy).


You know your dogs better than I do, but I'm not sure your criticism of the technique is well founded. I wasn't talking about what to do if a dog is chewing on you. We were talking about prosocial biting, not chewing. If a pup were chewing on my hand like a bone, I certainly wouldn't sit there and take it.



Megora said:


> As far as Jacks is concerned, he does exactly what you recommend, and it caused him to have bleeding sore on his neck from puppy teeth. <- That was the point I decided to start extending the "NO, No bite" training to not just me but also Jacks, since Jacks would not correct Bertie.


I don't think you can critique a technique for people by saying it doesn't work when a dog does it. But I wonder how much Bertie was chewing on Jacks because he wasn't learning prosocial behavior from you. When you teach pup what not to do instead of what to do, the urges often simply transfer elsewhere. Just a speculation. At the very least, when you have one family member doing one thing and another family member doing another, it's confusing for the pup. And, lastly, everybody else who favors "correcting" biting puppies always says that adult dogs "correct" the puppies, like that's evidence that we should. Jacks seems to belie that rule, eh?



Megora said:


> In the case you find yourself being gnawed on like a rawhide bone, what exactly do you do then?  That is what I meant by 100% positive methods not necessarily being 100% effective in a timely fashion in those very basic situations that DO affect puppy owners. Especially those who own golden puppies who interact with the world around them through their mouths (they eat it, chew on it, or bark at it).


Again, I'm not talking about "100% positive methods," so don't set up a straw man. I'm talking about _one_ common problem and one method for it that works really well and is also force free. Isn't it generally agreed that the minimum effective force is the right amount? In this instance it can be zero, and that's desirable.

But to answer the question itself: if a puppy decides to gnaw you like a rawhide instead of prosocial mouthing, the gnawing would be self-rewarding, so you have to prevent it (i.e., remove the hand along with your attention). I don't think you have to add an aversive piece in order to have a quick, lasting behavior change.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> If a pup were chewing on my hand like a bone, I certainly wouldn't sit there and take it.


lol. That's good to know you aren't a martyr for your convictions.... : 




> I don't think you can critique a technique for people by saying it doesn't work when a dog does it. But I wonder how much Bertie was chewing on Jacks because he wasn't learning prosocial behavior from you. When you teach pup what not to do instead of what to do, the urges often simply transfer elsewhere. Just a speculation. At the very least, when you have one family member doing one thing and another family member doing another, it's confusing for the pup.


Jacks is a good example of a "person" making like a statue and just trying to wait out the biting vs making any attempt to correct the Mouth. 

And even with Jacks, he will try evading and distracting - and even that doesn't work since Bertie would chase him and ignore the toys that Jacks would be waving around. 

Bertie very quickly learned to absolutely not bite any people because they would immediately say "no bite".

Because initially I would correct him if he did not immediately remove his mouth and I would praise him if he quickly removed his mouth - this was very quickly and easily trained. And I provided that tool for the rest of my family so it was not just a case of Bertie never biting me but nipping on other people. 



> And, lastly, everybody else who favors "correcting" biting puppies always says that adult dogs "correct" the puppies, like that's evidence that we should. Jacks seems to belie that rule, eh?


Nope. As I said, Jacks is an example of what happens when you DON'T correct biting. You get chew sores on your neck. Or er... hands.  

My Danny was the same way. I trained him to have manners around other dogs and he absolutely would not growl or snap at Jacks when Jacks was a mouthy puppy. In his case, he didn't get sores, but Jacks gave him dead tail from grabbing the tail and playing tug with it. 

Our collie on the flip side is a prime example of what happens when dogs DO look after themselves and quickly and expediently correct puppies. He is the alpha dog in the house and generally if he is around the goldens, I can relax and not worry about protecting Jacks. Because if Bertie doesn't back off when the collie "clears his throat" from his throne on the couch, Arthur will get up and quickly go in and pin Bertie. Bertie immediately learned to respect Arthur and will immediately stop chewing and go off and do something else if Arthur clears his throat. :

I believe that those people who advocate chasing down and pinning puppies to keep them in line likely observed this type of dog behavior, as far as how quickly dogs sort things out amongst themselves. 

I don't pin my dogs - and was furious when somebody took Bertie and tried to show me how to social-pin Bertie or some junk like that. But as far as watching dogs, I do see where the idea comes from.


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## Suni52 (Jan 18, 2012)

Our best and worst thing about owning a Golden is also the same thing. She is very demanding of affection, and thinks she's a 5lb lap dog. I've never had a dog that can't seem to get close enough to me (I swear she would crawl up inside my if she could).
But its sweet and I'm a big cuddler too so it works. 
Her mouthiness is also a problem. But its not people she mouths, its the kids toys. She just always likes to have something in her mouth, and its a constant struggle.
But the number of smiles she puts on everyone's faces and the joy she gives us all the time is worth any minor nuissance, 100:1. Couldn't imagine our lives without her


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

mama2three said:


> Thank you so much for all the wonderful responces everyone! This is like a whole new world to me! I am so excited to add our new golden baby to our family and reading this has helped me feel better prepared for some of the things we will encounter! We do have 3 young children aged 3.5, 6, and 8.5. How can I best deal with the biting faze with them?


Our daughter was 9 y.o. when we brought Maggie (RIP) home, our granddaughter was 4 y.o. when we brought Hank home. My advice is to invest in baby gate/s, crate or ex-pen to put puppy in during those hectic times of day...getting out the door in the morning, afterschool, when kids are over playing and running around. Nothing gets a puppy wound up faster than running, screaming kids 

We also had a "no rough housing on the floor rule" that's a tough one to enforce but puppy will take that as an invitation to play and puppies nip when playing. When the kids are playing on the floor, put puppy in his safe area or crate.


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## CStrong73 (Jun 11, 2012)

mama2three said:


> Thank you so much for all the wonderful responces everyone! This is like a whole new world to me! I am so excited to add our new golden baby to our family and reading this has helped me feel better prepared for some of the things we will encounter! We do have 3 young children aged 3.5, 6, and 8.5. How can I best deal with the biting faze with them?


 
It will be an ongoing process, and you'll have good days and bad days. Some days you'll find yourself completely annoyed with the puppies, other days with the kids.

My girls were 4, 7 and just about 10 when Rocket came home.

I would recommend that you start training now...your kids. 

I broke it down into 10 basic, set in stone rules and printed them up in a cute list and hung it on the fridge.


*Puppy Rules*​

*1. **Puppy is never allowed on ANY furniture.*

*2. **Do not pick puppy up without asking a grown-up.*

*3. **No wrestling or rough-housing.*

*4. **ALLWAYS check to be sure gate is closed before taking puppy outside.*

*5. **Puppy is not allowed in the family room unless Mom or Dad is there to supervise!*

*6. **If puppy bites or chews on hands or clothes, remain **CALM** and put a toy in his mouth. Praise him when he chews the toy. If he still doesn’t stop, playtime is over and puppy goes in his crate.*

*7. **ALLWAYS take puppy straight to the backyard behind the garage when he comes out of his crate. Playtime comes AFTER potty time!*


Of course, your rules may vary from mine. 

We also kept the puppy confined to the kitchen with gates and sliding doors in the beginning. Kids and puppy were together only when supervised.
We told the girls they were not allowed to rough house with the puppy, take any of his toys away, or go near him when he's eating.

Our biggest issue is the nipping. Over and over we tell the girls NOT to scream and run away or jump on furniture, or try to shove him away by pushing on his head. Those are all natural reactions from kids. But they also tend to get the puppy even more riled up. Instead, we tell them to stay calm and "turn into a statue" with their arms crossed. Say a firm "no bite".

7 months later, it is getting better. Rocket's bite is getting getting softer and less frequent and the kids are getting better at dealing with it. But we still have issues every now and then.

To sum it all up....preparation and supervision are KEY.


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## mama2three (Jan 14, 2013)

CStrong73 said:


> It will be an ongoing process, and you'll have good days and bad days. Some days you'll find yourself completely annoyed with the puppies, other days with the kids.
> 
> My girls were 4, 7 and just about 10 when Rocket came home.
> 
> ...


Those are some awesome rules! I will definitely be using these with my kids! I think it will be a learning process for everyone and I am a bit nervous about it all. Thank you everyone for your wonderful responses!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

This will be a very short list - one thing that My Rose does that qualifies for both best and worst. My almost 8 month old decided she likes to sleep in MY bed.

The best thing is the cuddling each night.
The worst thing are the slobbery kisses at 5am when DH wakes up. WHY ME!


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