# Feet point out



## Summer's Mom (Oct 20, 2010)

Do you mean 20 month old or 2 month old? If he is 20 months I don't think he will do much more growing or correcting...


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## Mosby's Mom (Oct 19, 2011)

Agree with above poster - if he is 20 months, I think they're done growing at that point.


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## BayBeams (Jan 3, 2010)

Do you have pictures that will show what you are referring to and have you discussed this with your breeder?
I agree, if your pup is 20 months old this probably won't change much at this point.


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## kdurrett (Nov 29, 2011)

Sorry, he is 20 weeks or 5 months


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Is it easty-westy? Google that and compare. I don't know if he'll grow out of if or not, have not seen that to date with any puppies I have seen/know/own.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Kelly, I had asked paula about that a few weeks ago and told her I was worried about it. She told me it was probably just a growing thing.?? This is what I found on it. And Melissa, I think it is easty-westy. I am uploading a picture of a pitt that feet resemble the puppies. 

But, there were only 2 puppies in the litter. His sister does not have it. If I remember correctly (whether this has anything to do with it or not) Paula caught him early, but was starting to become a "swimmer puppy."


Below is an answer to someone that was asking about their 9 month old puppy having it.


"Her feet turning outwards is what is referred to east-west front by breeders.This usually happens when a dog does not have the correct shoulder bone placement .Or down farther on the leg has an issue .If she has always had this turning of the feet because of her genes and not bad nutrition age will not improve it.In fact, it sometimes gets worse.How do you tell if a puppy's east/west feet are due to nutrition or genes? Easy- lift the puppy's front off of the ground. If the legs hang down straight, but then go east/west when they bear weight, this is nutritional damage! If they are east/west when they are suspended as well as on the ground, well then this is simply poor structure that the puppy was born with.Added; The term splayed feet is in describing a dog that has toes that spread apart instead of being a compact foot."


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Bummer! I can see how a swimmer puppy's legs could go easty-westy. Maybe there is a chance he'll outgrow it if it's related to being a swimmer. Crossing my fingers for you. 


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## kdurrett (Nov 29, 2011)

Here's a picture


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

He's just doing it with one paw while sitting-how is it while standing? I have a year old girl I co-own who at 8 months went east-west with both paws. Now at a year I am not sure she will outgrow it when her chest comes in.

It is a flaw but one that can be worked with when showing.

I have never heard of eat-west being caused by nutrintional deficiencies unless you are talking about some really severe deficiencies such as rickets.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Linda, This was one of the pups I had for 2 months. Actually that is a good picture and his left front leg is worse than than the right IMO. It is very hard to stack him and it not turn out. I will see if I have a picture on my phone of him from the front. I doubt it is nutritional. He moves okay, so hoping it just does not get worse!


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

I wonder if it will improve when his chest drops.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> I wonder if it will improve when his chest drops.


This would be my thought as well. In a youngster I actually do not mind seeing slight east-west, as long as it comes from the elbow, not the wrist. If it is the whole leg from the elbow, then when the chest drops it will square out, whereas too many puppies with dead square fronts end up going out at the elbows when the chest drops, with all the attendant ugly front movement and pin-toeing. Being ever so slightly out actually allows the dog to place its foot more solidly as they converge. Hard to tell in a seated shot whether it it is from the elbow--need a face-on front shot with the dog freestacking.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

In my EXTREMELY limited experience(22 years), what I like about a dog at eight weeks,they seem to come back to and if it wasn't quite there, it remains not quite there.. You can definitely place a dog/bitch straight when stacking. And those east/west dogs/ bitches do win regardless of correct structure. Much of this game IMO is due to handling.

And on another rant, I cringe when someone says to breed the bitch so her chest will drop. None of the bitches I have bred have ever changed in that respect... Either they have a chest or not!!,


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

sterregold said:


> This would be my thought as well. In a youngster I actually do not mind seeing slight east-west, as long as it comes from the elbow, not the wrist. If it is the whole leg from the elbow, then when the chest drops it will square out, whereas too many puppies with dead square fronts end up going out at the elbows when the chest drops, with all the attendant ugly front movement and pin-toeing. Being ever so slightly out actually allows the dog to place its foot more solidly as they converge. Hard to tell in a seated shot whether it it is from the elbow--need a face-on front shot with the dog freestacking.



I think it is from the wrist not the elbows, but will see if I have a decent picture somewhere.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Sally's Mom said:


> In my EXTREMELY limited experience(22 years), what I like about a dog at eight weeks,they seem to come back to and if it wasn't quite there, it remains not quite there.. You can definitely place a dog/bitch straight when stacking. And those east/west dogs/ bitches do win regardless of correct structure. Much of this game IMO is due to handling.
> 
> And on another rant, I cringe when someone says to breed the bitch so her chest will drop. None of the bitches I have bred have ever changed in that respect... Either they have a chest or not!!,


Yes--and often the pup will be square at that 7-8 week window and then go out as they go through a growth spurt and get lanky if it is for growth-related reasons. I would not keep a pup who was distinctly east-west at 8 weeks, as that is what the pup is going to be. It can also be very line-specific in pattern. And personally I will take ever so slightly east west over a short upper arm any day!! Some of the real oldtimers who have mentored me pass on the old adage--like the look of them at 8 weeks, and then put them away until they are 2 or 3 and mature!


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

kfayard said:


> I think it is from the wrist not the elbows, but will see if I have a decent picture somewhere.


If it is from the wrist then it is unlikely to resolve with maturity.


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## kdurrett (Nov 29, 2011)

Ok here's another picture of turbo standing. Wasn't easy to get picture as my 7 yr old helped me. Second picture is with me rotating Elbows out. Chest seems narrow right now so elbows pulled in towards chest . Could there be hope if his chest fills out when he gets older?


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## kdurrett (Nov 29, 2011)

Turbo at 8 or 9 weeks old


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