# Veterinary Bills



## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

I am a human being with chronic health issues for which I often have to see a doctor. So, I'm used to doctor's bills. My *human* doctor charges me around $80 a visit -- that's before insurance and everything else, I see the itemized bills -- so that's not even the price I pay, that's the total amount. I get prescriptions from a cheap pharmacy, some of those are $4 a month. The most I've ever paid for a bottle of pills was still under $50.

I have a dog who is much healthier than me. And he's a dog. I took him in for his annual exam and vaccine boosters and the like. I walked out and they charged me nearly $300. Granted, that included 6 months of heart guard and a few medicines and shampoos for a small bacterial infection (His skin is a little irritated, but he remains his usual happy hyperactive self).

I was busy with my dog and trying to make sure I had the instructions for the medications straight and charged it to a debit card without really thinking about it. I offered a small token objection that it was more than I was expecting and about the price I paid for the dog himself, but then said something along the lines of I guess there was some other stuff in there because he had the bacterial thing and wasn't really processing it completely in my head at the time.

Now I'm back home and I am getting angrier and angrier thinking about it. This is just unacceptable.

Do I have any real recourse here? Should I get a copy of his charts and go somewhere else next year? Would you call up and try to discuss this bill extensively with them in my shoes? Is there any way of really disputing it and trying to get some money back after the fact or does handing them my card and signing the card machine print out basically mean that money is gone?

To compare, as a puppy he had several visits with the same vet that included checkups and vaccines and they were in the $140 range. So this was more than double what I was expecting. And I was given no prior indication that it would be this much.

Now I now I am a little more price sensitive and lot poorer than a lot of pet owners, but I can't imagine everyone just forks over this kind of money on a regular basis. Like I said, it's more than my health care costs would be were I completely uninsured, and I have a ton of health concerns, whereas my dog is a dog and relatively healthy.

Where can I find the dog equivalent of my reasonably priced human doctor? How do you even go about comparing that sort of thing?


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Can you call the clinic's office manager or speak to whoever sets the charges? Six months of heartgard is expensive and may account for about 1/3 of your bill. The veterinarian's examination/consultation fee, vaccines and boosters are in there as well as the special shampoos and medicationss. It seems to me the prices are entirely reasonable, at least compared to what we pay at the clinic we use. 

An easy way to check is to google the medications/shampoos/supplements and get an idea of what the market charges. Then call and ask if your vet accepts price matches for these meds. It may be too late now to do a price match but it's a good thing to keep in mind for future visits.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I don't know what to say other than if you look at an itemized list of what you spent, there's probably not much you can do. 

Personally speaking, I just buy the heartworm pill on the first of the month when I need it. That way I'm not doling out $120 for 6 months worth. $20 by comparision is pocket money and easily parted with every month. 

The medicines and shampoo - again, you can't go cheaper than the real thing, especially if your dog has a bad infection. I imagine you paid $50-90 for that.

And at least at my vet, I pay $24 for the exam fee. 

Then the shots themselves and your heartworm test or whatever are going to be $60-90. 

These are things you can expect to deal with when you bring a dog home. And when you compare it to the expense of letting your dog get sick and trying to treat an illness vs prevent, then you are actually saving money. 

Well in theory. 

I had pneumonia this past spring, and between 3 hospital visits, including xrays, scans, tests, and meds wound up costing me $500 out of pocket, which was nothing compared to the $1600 that it actually cost. So I'm grateful for my health insurance and see the vet bills as relatively inexpensive.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

Do you have an itemized bill?

A walk in the door vet visit is about 45.00 in my area...I would imagine it is not less in PA...maybe even more..

Vaccines can vary in price...and vaccinating an adult dog is more expensive then a pup.

Heartworm meds are pricey and cant be avoided in Pennsylvania.... some will price match catalog suppliers. But they certainly dont have to price match.

Medicated Shampoos are expensive (I remember paying as much as $30.00 for one bottle many years ago...)...if you have not used it...you could ask if there is a less expensive alternative.

It can add up very fast!

I think it would be very, very hard to find a vet that has a sliding scale according to their clients ability to pay.
Perhaps a talk with the office manager might help....


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

Honestly, that doesn't sound unreasonable. 

Can you post the breakdown of everything? 

The exam is probably around $50, plus heartguard and vaccines, which would be at least another $130. Did they do a skin scrape to determine what kind of irritation he had? 

Vets have to charge a minimum dispensing fee (usually) for all medications, which for my vet is $18.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Sounds about right to me...

Exam $45
Distemper Booster $25
Rabies Vaccine $30
Heartworm Test $39
Fecal Sample $25
Hazardous Waste Disposal $4
6 mo Heartgard $50
Shampoo (??) $15+ each

Hmm, bacterial infection... depends on what they gave him... let's say $30-40
Culture/Microscopy $20

All of this equals $293. It isn't including other vaccines such as bordatella (kennel cough), lyme, lepto, etc.

Keep in mind that not all medications are created equal. A lot of veterinary prescriptions are off label use and there is no insurance to eat the cost. A lot of it is marked up, as I've seen the invoices but you are paying for the convenience of getting the meds right then and there. In the future, ask if they can be called in to a pharmacy. Some vets will charge you a pharmacy fee because it's a little bit of a hassle. They won't take the meds back now and do it because they legally can't.

I wouldn't find a new vet, especially if you like them and trust them. There is something to be said for that. I would look into PET insurance!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

CarolinaCasey said:


> Sounds about right to me...
> 
> Exam $45
> Distemper Booster $25
> ...


I wanna go to your vet  --a fecal for us is now $49 (they are sending a part of it out though), Shampoo--one shampoo prescribed for Barkley for a bacterial infection was $90 and the other was $45. 

To the OP, you might want to consider some sort of pet insurance for some of your future veterinary costs.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

ok your bill does sound about right BUT 
we use cattle and swine ivermectin here....

Wormers for Cattle & Swine: Injectable Ivermectin & Ivomec

you can get it cheaper than this if you search around they had it at amazon cheaper... and we syringe out the proper dosage and squirt it onto a piece of bread... it cost about 40 bucks a bottle and honestly it will expire before we use it all up... and I think my last bottle lasted 6 years or something like that... we use this instead of heargard because honestly i think heartgard is ridiculously expensive and it is the same active ingredient just not in a chewy treat.... 

so while that might not help your current bill it is an option for the future and your vet should be able to give you the proper dosage for your dog


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Dallas Gold said:


> I wanna go to your vet  --a fecal for us is now $49 (they are sending a part of it out though), Shampoo--one shampoo prescribed for Barkley for a bacterial infection was $90 and the other was $45.
> 
> To the OP, you might want to consider some sort of pet insurance for some of your future veterinary costs.


YIKES! You should ask for a fecal float only. I would die--$45 when it's an adult dog on Heartworm prevention year-round. Um, no thank you! The float is the $25 one that is standard unless we're looking at a parasite problem, chronic diarrhea, etc.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

A couple people asked for an itemized breakdown.

Here is what the bill reads:

Examination Annual $46.00
Bordetella Vaccine $19.25
DHPP Vaccine $19.25
Lyme Disease Vaccine $26.25
Rabies Canine 3 Year Booster $17.75
Fecal Examin Antec-T-805 $23.00
Heartgard Plus Brown 51-100lb 6mo $53.20
PhytoVet- 16oz. $29.70
Simplicet 200mg (14) $44.90
Prednisolone 5mg tab (40) $18.00

It looks more reasonable itemized than when looked at it in lump sum, but when I consider how it compares to my human doctor bills and how it compares to the same bills from the same vet the year before, it is a lot more. I was anticipating paying around $140 and even that seemed expensive -- it's truthfully more than I'd pay for myself to get treated.

In retrospect, I should have not handed them my card and disputed it with them there in the office and asked to talk to the vet herself and so on and so forth. But I was kind of shell shocked, handling my pet, and not really ready for a dispute. I was feeling good about getting my dog treated and had interacted pleasantly with everyone there and had stuff in my hands and was worried about making sure I knew how to dose him correctly with the pills and so forth. Then it kind of set in and it seemed outrageous.

I tried calling the office back and they're closed now, so I plan to call tomorrow. Part of me really just wants to call and yell at them, that's my first instinct, but I'm trying to reason it out and figure out how to best go about dealing with this. I feel really blindsided. And it's harder because they all seemed like nice people and it was all very pleasant every step of the way until I got the bill.

One thing is that in retrospect I don't feel like they properly discussed options for treatment with me. It was just sort of like this is what he needs to do and here are his medicines. 

They wouldn't let a human doctor operate his own pharmacy because it'd be a conflict of interest -- he'd have financial incentive to prescribe more medicines or more expensive medicines than people really needed and might mark up prices on the assumption that people would rather just get the medicines there at the office and not shop around. It's really odd that vets are allowed to operate this way.

Don't get me wrong, I knew coming into things that pets are expensive and require sacrifice. This is out of line with what I pay for my own medical care (as a human being with significant health issues) and what my dog's medical care cost from the same vet last year, though.

I see a lot of poor people with dogs and cats, though. Maybe not quite as poor as me (Few are), but fairly poor. People in efficiency apartments in bad parts of town working at Wal-Mart or whereever, that sort of thing. It seems hard to imagine that all of them are paying $300 vet bills. Something just seems not right about this.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Rainheart said:


> Did they do a skin scrape to determine what kind of irritation he had?


I did not notice them doing one. It looked like just a visual examination with hands and doctor equipment like that little thing they look in the eyes with and such.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I think that it is fair, given everything that you said was done. If you have an issue with finances (and who doesn't, these days), you have every right to ask how much something costs before authorizing it be done. In fact, I think that it is a pet owner's responsibility to do so, and to ask if having something done is absolutely necessary, and if so, why, or, if you don't, what the consequence might be.
This will help eliminate "sticker shock" and anger/complaints after the fact.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

I also agree that it sounds about right... 
An office visit alone at my vet is $48.00. I'm sure you ran between $50-$80 for the vaccines. Heartguard is crazy expensive when you buy six months at a time and I wouldn't be surprised if the shampoo alone was $50.00. I just took mine in for an eye infection and a little 2oz bottle of antibiotic drops was $50.00. It wouldn't be unreasonable to request an itemized list though... my vet does them automatically because sometimes people need them for insurance claims (plus it's nice to have just for records sake and keeping track of what specifically has been done to your dog). With that said, if expenses like this really do a number on your bank account (college student here, they do for me), I would recommend pet insurance. I have PetPlan with $100 deductible with 100% reimbursement for something like $34 a month.

BTW: This is by far the cheapest vet for the care received in my town... between myself and my family members with animals we have seen just about every vet in our area and we happily settled on the one we see now.. I don't feel like their prices are over the top or anything.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

CarolinaCasey said:


> A lot of it is marked up, as I've seen the invoices but you are paying for the convenience of getting the meds right then and there. In the future, ask if they can be called in to a pharmacy. Some vets will charge you a pharmacy fee because it's a little bit of a hassle. They won't take the meds back now and do it because they legally can't.


Look back on it, I don't really feel like they discussed my options about the medications. I was at checkout and they had labels and stuff made up and were kind of like "Here you go, this is it.". And then I got a total bill. I wasn't told how much they would individually cost or given the options of being handed written scripts to shop around, and didn't have alternate treatments discussed (i.e. No one said "You might not need the shampoo, maybe just try the antibiotic first" or anything like that).

I blame myself partly, because usually I am more "on my toes" as a consumer, but I can be slow at processing things and honestly didn't expect this. Until the last minute, I honestly expected the bill to be about half of what it was.



> I would look into PET insurance!


How much does that usually cost a month and what does it cover? I saw brochures in the office, but they didn't give any prices, which made me suspect it was more than I can afford. Generally, when people won't give you a price upfront, it's a bad sign.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

CarolinaCasey said:


> YIKES! You should ask for a fecal float only. I would die--$45 when it's an adult dog on Heartworm prevention year-round. Um, no thank you! The float is the $25 one that is standard unless we're looking at a parasite problem, chronic diarrhea, etc.


We are checking for some specific things so I gather that's why it doubled from this time last year! I keep on telling Toby he's got the world's most expensive poop!


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Mirinde said:


> Heartguard is crazy expensive when you buy six months at a time


I'd like to buy less than 6 months at a time, but I don't know where to do it. The vet won't offer less than that, and the online places I checked also had 6 month minimums.

I buy my Frontline online 3 months at a time -- the vet's prices were nearly double, so I politely declined. The vet's Heartguard prices were roughly what I see online, though -- maybe a few bucks more, but then there one has to add in shipping costs online, which evens it out, and you've got to mail in the script).


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Golden999 said:


> Look back on it, I don't really feel like they discussed my options about the medications. I was at checkout and they had labels and stuff made up and were kind of like "Here you go, this is it.". And then I got a total bill. I wasn't told how much they would individually cost or given the options of being handed written scripts to shop around, and didn't have alternate treatments discussed (i.e. No one said "You might not need the shampoo, maybe just try the antibiotic first" or anything like that).
> 
> I blame myself partly, because usually I am more "on my toes" as a consumer, but I can be slow at processing things and honestly didn't expect this. Until the last minute, I honestly expected the bill to be about half of what it was.
> 
> ...


the reason they don't give you a price is because like any insurance it is dependant on alot of factors.... 

My Irish Wolfhound is quite a bit more expensive than my goldens... 
my younger dogs are less expensive than my older goldens... 
there are to many factors so you can do a quote online or you can call them... the price is also dependent on what kind of coverage you want... wellness care of just major medical (thats what I have) its no different than ny other insurance

as for the bill I think it is totally your responsibility to ask how much things cost and what is necessary and control the distribution of your dogs health care I honestly don't blame the vet here at all and you said something about calling them and yelling at them because their costs are high and you had sticker shock... honestly I think that is a little unreasonable... first because you will be yelling at the poor receptionist who probably makes 8 bucks an hour ... secondly you are yelling at them because you didn't ask the cost doesn't seem quite fair. 

When you go into a vet and ask them to check out your dog and solve a problem that is what you ask them to do .... and they presumable have done that... if you don't tell them that money is tight they have no way of knowing that... when I go to my vet and say gee my dog has a problem they work on solving it... and they don't ever say ok we will do a stool sample for 39.00 and then we will do a heartworm test for 25.99 and a rabies vaccine for $30.00 etc etc... that has never happened to matter what vet I have gone to.... 

I personally would chalk this up to a live and learn situation and take more control next time

and check out the ivomec if you missed my post on that previously


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

Honestly, thinks look fine, and even cheaper than my vet (our vaccines are more expensive). 

Some of those medications you could have gotten a script for and maybe found them cheaper, but I don't think any of those prices are unreasonable. Maybe call around to other vets and see if any are cheaper.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

As an "In the Future" idea, you could start off each appointment by giving them a rough estimate of what you can spend. I try to do the budget before every vet appointment that isn't routine check-up stuff and almost immediately after she walks in for the appointment, I let her know what we can afford and they try to work the treatment around that figure. 

For example, Iorek split his paw pad open while my fiance was unemployed...we were down to literally our last few hundred dollars before his new job was due to start and we tried to treat it at home for a couple days but it just wasn't healing up to my satisfaction. So we brought him in to the vet and I directly told her "I can probably do about $50 today" and she designed his treatment around that figure. I think most vets would rather work with you than see your dog not get treatment at all.


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

I know you feel like yelling ( totally get it)....but yelling wont get you heard...and being heard is what you want.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Golden999 said:


> Look back on it, I don't really feel like they discussed my options about the medications. I was at checkout and they had labels and stuff made up and were kind of like "Here you go, this is it.". And then I got a total bill. I wasn't told how much they would individually cost or given the options of being handed written scripts to shop around, and didn't have alternate treatments discussed (i.e. No one said "You might not need the shampoo, maybe just try the antibiotic first" or anything like that).
> 
> How much does that usually cost a month and what does it cover? I saw brochures in the office, but they didn't give any prices, which made me suspect it was more than I can afford. Generally, when people won't give you a price upfront, it's a bad sign.


Normally, the reason you're at the vet is to be there for treatment and medication if you need it. I believe it is an unsaid understanding that the vet is to supply you with whatever it is to "fix" your pet. In the future, now you know to ask about scripts or sample medications if they have any (rarely). It can't hurt to ask. There is also something called Care Credit which is like a credit card for health care expenses.

There are a lot of different pet insurance companies. It is cheaper for younger dogs than old, arthritic dogs. Google and see what you found, search the forum, ask questions. 

ETA: Veterinary software allows for us to be able to create an estimate of charges. Ask for one when you make your appointment. This will allow you to prepare yourself and it will also allow you to think of any questions you may have regarding treatment options. Commercial ear cleaner vs. white vinegar/water combo, Heska HWT vs IDEXX 3DX/4DX, getting a HWT during HW prevention month when they may have a special, etc.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Shalva said:


> as for the bill I think it is totally your responsibility to ask how much things cost and what is necessary and control the distribution of your dogs health care


I will go with you part way there and say at least I should have discussed it with them in depth when they presented me with my bill. That's the sort of thing I would in theory say I'd always do with an unexpectedly high bill. The problem sometimes comes in that in real life sometimes my brain isn't firing on all cylinders in those type of situations. Like here, I was tired, I was worried about my dog, I was handling my dog, and just generally distracted and not thinking things through. I still mustered a small objection, but it didn't sink in until later. I actually pulled over into a nearby parking lot and looked at the itemized bill and thought about going right back and disputing it, but decided I needed to think it through a little more before charging in there unannounced and starting some sort of argument or whatever.

So, I will say, that, yeah, in a perfect world, I would have talked to them about it before paying. I do think that institutionally there is something wrong with a veterinary model that says essentially "We'll tell you what it costs after we do it.". I mean, we wouldn't expect that at a gas station, right? If Shell didn't have big signs up with a price per gallon and just said "Go ahead, pump your gas, we'll tell you how much you owe when you're done.", people probably wouldn't go to shell. But that seems to be basically all vets and all human doctors, for that matter. So, you can't even say "Well, fine, I'm going to the one that tells me in advance." because in most areas, at least, there are none out there like that.

Also, health care, actually maybe even more so with a pet than with one selves, is an emotionally charged thing. A lot of times we worry about our pets more than we worry about ourselves and the thought of them suffering in any way is really upsetting. I know I get sort of worked up and think "I can't let anything happen to this poor little guy.". I was watching a documentary recently that was saying a study shows that the same chemical is released in the human brain when we pet a dog for 15-20 minutes as is released in a human mother's brain the first time she holds her baby, or while she's breast feeding. So, biochemically, we really do think of our pets as child in a deep way that goes beyond reason.

So, it seems like in an emotionally charged situation where people might not be thinking straight or might not be able to be as coldly logical as, say, while shopping for the best price on a pair of jeans, there may be an added responsibility on the part of the business in going above and beyond normal standards to ensure that they are not, perhaps inadvertently, taking advantage of the situation, and that the customer has a chance to think things through.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I don't feel that the vet was taking advantage of you. The prices are in line with what I have seen nearly everywhere, and in fact, less than in some areas. It is up to us to be our pet's advocates, and that includes cost issues, understanding what we are paying for, and being assertive (politely) and upfront about what we are able/willing to spend. This all needs to occur PRIOR to checking out.


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

I agree if finances are an issue, then you could have spoken up in the appointment. Usually if someone says this, we make up an estimate with what our plan is and prices so they know what they are getting. It does take time to make this up, but be sure to ask next time.

Also, if they do present you with the medications, don't be afraid to ask if you can get a script for it instead. 

Be sure to have a gameplan when you go into the vet next time and write things down to remind yourself. We aren't out to get you for money, we really do want what is best for your pet. But, we can also adjust if money is an issue. Care credit is a good thing to look into as well as pet insurance.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Golden999 said:


> I will go with you part way there and say at least I should have discussed it with them in depth when they presented me with my bill. That's the sort of thing I would in theory say I'd always do with an unexpectedly high bill. The problem sometimes comes in that in real life sometimes my brain isn't firing on all cylinders in those type of situations. Like here, I was tired, I was worried about my dog, I was handling my dog, and just generally distracted and not thinking things through. I still mustered a small objection, but it didn't sink in until later. I actually pulled over into a nearby parking lot and looked at the itemized bill and thought about going right back and disputing it, but decided I needed to think it through a little more before charging in there unannounced and starting some sort of argument or whatever.
> 
> So, I will say, that, yeah, in a perfect world, I would have talked to them about it before paying. I do think that institutionally there is something wrong with a veterinary model that says essentially "We'll tell you what it costs after we do it.". I mean, we wouldn't expect that at a gas station, right? If Shell didn't have big signs up with a price per gallon and just said "Go ahead, pump your gas, we'll tell you how much you owe when you're done.", people probably wouldn't go to shell. But that seems to be basically all vets and all human doctors, for that matter. So, you can't even say "Well, fine, I'm going to the one that tells me in advance." because in most areas, at least, there are none out there like that.
> 
> ...


I understand your point and agree that when you are at a vet and you have your beloved pet with you that you might not be thinking straight... but you are right this is not the business model that vets work under... for that matter neither do human doctors... the difference being that many have insurance so the insurance gets billed and we are none the wiser... its when we pay out of pocket that we start noticing the $15 for tylenol 

that having been said if you know that you get stressed and takes a bit to process then I agree with the others that you might have it figured out how much you can spend or get an estimate before they do anything... I know that at the emergency clinic here anyway that they tell you the cost of the exam while you are on the phone with them to let them know you are coming and at each step they tell you the cost and have you sign an estimate before they do the treatment... maybe all vets should do that but at the same time it really takes quite a bit of time and is another level of work for them when they are trying to see as many patients as they can.... but perhaps this is something that you could ask for... 

instead of yelling the next time you go in... just tell them you are on a fixed income and the last time the bill really shocked you and that you were hoping this time that you could know what the costs are going to be as you go so you can make some decisions about costs and expenses.... I think that most vets would totally understand this and would work with you.... 

please do consider the ivomec for the heartworm it is the same medicine just not in a chewy treat but it is enormously less expensive and we started using it because with our pack of 9 heartgard is just to expensive... most of my friends with multiple dogs use the ivomec... and just squirt it onto our own treat... we use banana bread here ... 

I also agree with the person above who said get a RX for the antibiotics and stuff... for $7 i joined a RX plan at my local supermarket and honestly I save thousands per year... my dog cuinn is on keppra for epilepsy and it brings the cost of that medication down from $400 per month to $53 per month.... and thye cover alot of antibiotics and such for free 

just my two cents


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I know what you mean about everything happening so fast and not having time or foresight to examine charges or ask questions about treatment.

I always take someone with me. It helps to have someone to handle the dog while I pay or help me remember instructions and just the reassurance that I can free my mind to think!

btw, I'd like to find a human doctor like yours. I also have chronic health problems and my CO-PAY for an office visit is $100! The office visit doesn't include hundreds of $$$ for lab tests ahead of the appointment.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

I think we have all been in your shoes--where we have paid for something and then afterwards got to thinking, "hey wait a minute!"
I don't know if you have the low cost vaccinations clinics or vets that travel around giving vaccinations in your area, but this saves a huge amount of money.
I use my veterinarian when skill is required to diagnose a problem, or for the annual checkup where some time is involved. I use the local traveling vet for routine vaccinations (they cost about 1/4 as much). 
I do the same thing for my own health care. I get any vaccinations I need at the health department, but see my doctor for medical care.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

It makes me really frustrated and upset, but in a larger sense, it's just depressing. I already sit around in this slummy apartment way too much with my health problems where the water leaks from the ceiling in my bedroom and I've had to sleep on the couch since December. Plus, while in a relatively small town, it's in a relatively bad neighborhood with a bunch of people doing weird things way too loudly basically right on top of me (Literally as in the apartment above me, and figuratively, as in I'm right on the sidewalk and people do all sorts of obnoxious annoying things at all times of night on the sidewalk and in the street as 18 wheelers rumble by.) Now I basically know I've got 3 1/2 or 4 weeks of not really going much of anywhere because I can't afford the gas and not really doing much of anything because I can't afford the doing anything part. Carefully managed, I'll switch over to really cheap bottom of the barrel food after what I've already bought runs out and maybe even get some really cheap beer. So, I won't starve to death or anything (and neither will the dog -- he's even got all his medicines and stuff), but it's just a pretty mind-numbing existence.

You get kind of frustrated and, say, hey I'll hop in the car and take a little drive and get a sub or visit some relatives or whatever and you just can't do it. And I'm in that situation a lot even when I don't have a $300 vet bill to pay.

But, hey, I've put almost 1/3rd of my income towards some veterinarian's Caribbean cruise or whatever, so I can feel good about that.

I think even my dog gets bored and frustrated here, and he's a dog! He's a pretty smart one, though. He brings some sort of meaning to my life -- probably the closest thing I'll come to having a family, really.

I have a relative who recently announced with a flourish that she's a socialist. That's not me, I'm just an old-fashioned liberal, but sometimes I look around at all these rich people and then I take a look at me and some of the people in my neighborhood and our lives and think "You know what, maybe she's not so crazy after all.". I don't go along with all that pinko commie stuff, the Soviet Union was a pretty nasty place to live from what I hear, but this unbridled capitalism thing where you're only worth what you can make doesn't seem like all it's cracked up to be either sometimes. I guess it's just going to be a sucky world for some people no matter how you slice it.

It's probably worse when you can't get along with most people and they can't get along with you. By the time you rule out all the 90% folks who just irritate the heck out of you and then the 90% of folks who you irritate the heck out of rule you out (And it's not entirely the same 90%), there's not many people left to hang out with. And then they've got to be close enough to you that you can afford to visit, and okay with just sitting on a couch hanging out or something that doesn't cost money.

The dog's good company, though. He only irritates me part of the time.  It's hard not to love a golden retriever. And they really loves people. Even seems kind of attached to me, though I do seem to irritate him too from time to time.

I don't know that I'm upset so much at the ridiculous vet fee, though it is a ridiculous vet fee, so much as that it's always something from somewhere that you're stuck paying with way too little funds. You don't have enough to really set up a decent life even when everything goes right and things are overpriced -- and then you get surprised by a medical bill or a vet bill or the price of gas shoots up or the price of food shoots up or the automobile needs repairs or the tv or internet goes up and everything just gets that much worse.

And nobody really cares with a lot of this stuff. They just look at you from a comparatively better position and sort of shrug and say "That's life, pal. Those big corporations and rich professional deserve to have better lives than you and you've gotta fund them no matter how much they hike their prices.". I mean, you can jump from business to business or provider to provider to get the best price and promotions, and I generally do, but in the end they're all constantly raising their prices and you can't stay ahead of it indefinitely. Then again, I guess I'm basically doing the same thing to the starving orphans in Somalia or wherever who would probably love to be in my shoes -- or have shoes, for that matter. So, none of us really have the moral high ground.


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## GinnyinPA (Oct 31, 2010)

The time to talk to your vet about your lack of funds is the minute you walk in the door. It may affect the choices they offer regarding treatment. A few may swallow the cost for some really necessary but expensive treatment, but they all have overhead and staff to pay, so they can't afford to give charity to everybody. It isn't fair to say, after the exam is done, shots given, tests started that, "Oh, by the way, I can't afford to pay you." It is okay though to say, "Is there a less expensive alternative?" 

My husband's doctor asked if he was taking his pills. Jim said, "No, they're too expensive." His doctor said, "Well, the pills really are necessary, but there is a cheaper generic alternative. Let's try it and see if it does the job for you." The same thing can be done with your dog. But it's up to you to say something first. 

I understand about sticker shock. When we took Ben in to get microchipped and because he was losing the hair on his legs and neck (going bald basically) the exams, thryoid test, skin scrapings etc. cost us $375. And at that, the doctor still didn't know what was wrong. Tests all came up negative so we switched his dog food - and the hair grew back. It wasn't easy to pay that, but we needed to know if something serious was going on. It was worth the money to find out that he was still healthy, just allergic.

As to what really poor people do - most simply don't take proper care of their dogs. They don't get booster shots, or do annual wellness exams. They don't do heartworm meds. If their dog gets really sick or injured, they abandon it or tell the vet to put it to sleep. Why do you think there are so many older dogs at rescue groups? Why do so many of the dogs they rescue have heartworm? Our dog was 3 years old when we got him, but we had to do his shots as if he were a puppy -- because the previous owner didn't bother. If you want to be a responsible owner, and I think you do, you have to expect to pay for good medical care.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

I understand your frustration but unfortunately those prices all sound about right to me. Dogs are expensive - I feel your pain. I know its rough but I commend you for putting your dogs best interests first!


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

GinnyinPA said:


> The time to talk to your vet about your lack of funds is the minute you walk in the door. It may affect the choices they offer regarding treatment. A few may swallow the cost for some really necessary but expensive treatment, but they all have overhead and staff to pay, so they can't afford to give charity to everybody. It isn't fair to say, after the exam is done, shots given, tests started that, "Oh, by the way, I can't afford to pay you." It is okay though to say, "Is there a less expensive alternative?"
> 
> My husband's doctor asked if he was taking his pills. Jim said, "No, they're too expensive." His doctor said, "Well, the pills really are necessary, but there is a cheaper generic alternative. Let's try it and see if it does the job for you." The same thing can be done with your dog. But it's up to you to say something first.


I see what you're saying. And with my regular doctor, I've been very clear that I only want to be prescribed generics -- and cheap generics at that. I remember going to see a specialist for something and literally engaging in an argument with him about whether a $100 name-brand medicine was worth it or if a generic $20 or $25 medicine (the same drug, even, just a different manufacturer) would work for something. I got him to write the generic in the end -- and it worked. Another time, my pharmacy wanted to charge me a price I felt was too much for something I only needed the one script for, and I literally took it to 6 or 8 different pharmacies and walked out of every one until one offered me a reasonable price. You shouldn't have seen the looks they gave me and the things they were muttering about me under their breath.

And, yes, in retrospect, I should have had that same discussion with my veterinarian. But it also would have been nice if my vet had simply outlined costs and possible alternatives for me as part of her spiel. Maybe if your husband's doctor had told him about the generic alternative in the first place, he wouldn't have had to put himself at risk by not taking pills in the first place. I don't understand entirely why it is always incumbent on the consumer to push and push and push and push. I sort of understand that it is, in fact, but it'd be nice if some of these professionals didn't always jump to giving the most expensive possible treatment and prescribing the most expensive possible drugs without outlining other possibilities first.

I try to stay on my toes and be aggressive about advocating for myself and getting promotions or asking about alternatives and this that and the other. It's mentally and emotionally exhausting to be doing that all the time, though, and sometimes you just plain old forget or don't have the energy. I won't even tell you the pure man hours I've put in with phone calls and trips and this, that, and the other over utilities and television and basic stuff and cancelling in a huff and switching to this and that and just getting them do their jobs in a reasonable way for a reasonable price. And, you know, in the end, after you write the letters and make the phone calls and everything else, you still pay way too much for way too little, and then they take the next chance they can to raise your bill and you have to start the process all over again.


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## Sophie_Mom (Jan 21, 2009)

I think it's great that you love your dog and you took him to the vet for all of the care, treatment, and preventative that he needs. I completely understand about your financial frustrations, and I commend you for being willing to sacrifice in order to provide your friend, your dog, with what he needs. 

I think it would be perfectly acceptable to call your vet and calmly discuss your concerns. I wouldn't yell, even if it's what you feel like doing, because like someone else said, they won't hear you. Maybe they'd be able to reverse the charge on your debit card and let you enter into a payment plan instead. I'd imagine it would be the same amount, but over a period of time, it may be easier to take out of your budget. It couldn't hurt to ask.

For future visits, I'd recommend looking into CareCredit. It's a credit card that you use at places like the vet, dentist, eye doctor, etc. It's how I pay for almost all of our vet bills. I try to pay the whole thing off every month, but sometimes I can't, and sometimes for bigger ticket items, I have to spread it out over a few months. It's a good option. Not all vets accept it, so you'll want to be sure yours does, or find a vet that does. 

Taking your dog on walks or to the park to play ball is free and a great way to spend your time! I bet you'd both benefit from getting out of your apartment and spending some quality time outside! And your friend will LOVE you even more for it! Good luck!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

This veterinarian is not geting rich off of anyone. Associate vets like me are making money for our bosses, but I guarantee, I will be working for many more years. My husband who is also a vet was $80,000 in debt when we graduated 26 years ago. I was more fortunate....
He has also been better paid(different practice) than me.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Sally's Mom said:


> This veterinarian is not geting rich off of anyone. Associate vets like me are making money for our bosses, but I guarantee, I will be working for many more years. My husband who is also a vet was $80,000 in debt when we graduated 26 years ago. I was more fortunate....
> He has also been better paid(different practice) than me.


I was just going to say this. The prices may sound like they're getting a lot of money but not all of it is their profit. The exam cost, I assume, is 100% profit but they have to purchase everything else. 

Also, Sally's Mom, thank you for mentioning the debt! I've had a few not-so-nice friends make nasty comments to me lately about "all the money I'll be making" after I graduate and become a psychologist. Uh... by the time I'm done with school... I'll have close to $200,000 in student loans. :uhoh: 

My aunt and uncle (my dad's brother and sister) have recently passed their boards and are official doctors. I was talking to my aunt and she said she's DROWNING in student loan debt right now.

I'm sure SOME vets and other professional people price gouge and are greedy but most are not.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Sally's Mom said:


> This veterinarian is not geting rich off of anyone. Associate vets like me are making money for our bosses, but I guarantee, I will be working for many more years. My husband who is also a vet was $80,000 in debt when we graduated 26 years ago. I was more fortunate....
> He has also been better paid(different practice) than me.


. 

I think that most people would be very surprised if they knew how much most veterinarians are making. Very few are getting rich. Many are not close to being even "well off". The profession is truly a labor of love for most.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I don't know a whole lot of vets going on Caribbean cruises...
These days, not a whole lot of MD's are anymore, either. Malpractice insurance alone is enough to dissuade many from even becoming doctors .


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

So here's a stretch, my hairdresser's SIL went to osteopathic school. he now is an /ER doc and is $500,000 in debt. OMG!!


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> I don't know a whole lot of vets going on Caribbean cruises...
> These days, not a whole lot of MD's are anymore, either. Malpractice insurance alone is enough to dissuade many from even becoming doctors .


 
So true. Not to mention that many aren't finished with training until they are in their mid 30's. They are on salary once they graduate from med school and start their residency, but those salaries aren't much! Our younger son who is doing his fellowship in pediatric cardiology won't be finished until he is 34..... and he has had no break in his education. He went straight from college ( 4 yrs ) to med school (4 yrs) to residency in pediatrics ( 3 yrs ) and then cardiology fellowship ( 4 yrs ).


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

I'm not even counting Gary's student loan debt in the $200,000 either. Seriously, we're gonna be paying this probably until OUR children are in college!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I forgot to mention, I am getting rich off of breeding dogs! Just kidding... just wanted to see who is awake!!!


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Also, I have to say... if someone worked hard for their job... I don't really see anything wrong with living the "good life" ... you know? Yeah, don't treat other people like crap but if you earned it you deserve it.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I'm still looking for the good life!!!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Sally's Mom said:


> I forgot to mention, I am getting rich off of breeding dogs! Just kidding... just wanted to see who is awake!!!


I know how - get several bitches, breed every season, starting with the first one, and don't do clearances. Do NOT show or compete in any venue, and make sure you have your own stud dawg. Voila'! :curtain:

(Now we'll see who's awake...)


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Careful ladies, you just might tempt someone!  Endless hours of preparation, study, training, cleaning, grooming, practicing...what an easy life! I agree that if hard work and dedication ends in a comfortable life, then I'm all for it.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

Wow! Prices from Up North are so different from down here! Our annual vax/check-up is $98.50 which includes:

Rabies
Distemper/Parvo Combo
Bordetella
Fecal
3dx snap (heartworm test)
doctors visit
ear cleaning 
nail trim
pet i.d. card

Our 6 month of HG (brown) is $55...so not much difference there
Our regular office vets are $35

But $300 for everything that you did get, does not sound that unreasonable.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Whoops... my bad. (I misread a post and commented, but then read it correctly.)


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

I read a quote not too long ago that said: "Owning a dog is slightly less expensive than being addicted to crack."

And man is it true. Unfortunately you can't really compare it to human healthcare costs, it's not really an apples to apples type thing. What you can do is purchase pet insurance, which while it would not cover routine healthcare like the visit you just did, would cover even more costly procedures like the ear hematoma surgery my dog had 2 weeks ago that cost me over $1000. 

And while I did have some sticker shock over that cost, I was at least given a clear and detailed breakdown of charges and had options that could have made it less costly that were explained to me in detail by the vet. I'm surprised your vet didn't go over all the costs with you before the time you were pulling out your credit card!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

To the OP: I paid $400/each for the dogs at their exam a few weeks ago. That included exams, boosters, and wellness bloodwork (blood panels and SNAP 4Dx tests for both), as well as 12 doses of Interceptor. So what you paid seems pretty in line with what I'd expect.

The only exception is that you seem to have paid a lot for prednisone. You can get pet prescriptions filled at CVS or Target if you discuss it with your vet, and it may be a bit cheaper. I just paid $6 for 40 10mg tabs of prednisone for myself at Target, and I know none of it was covered by my insurance.

Talk to your vet about your financial situation. Most vets are pretty sensitive to how charges rack up, so your vet may be quite helpful in determining what can be skipped from the less essential tests.

To the "doctors don't make good money" crowd: I can't speak for vets at all, but I have some friends who are specialist MDs, and they do quite well financially. They absolutely deserve it, because they have made an enormous commitment to their areas, and they're incredibly qualified, but they do just fine financially. And they graduated with significant debt. Being a doctor can be a lucrative job. It isn't always, but it can be.


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## sophiesadiehannah's mom (Feb 11, 2007)

your vet prices are reasonable, sorry about your financial problems, but you are not alone, the economy sucks, however vets should not be expected to lower prices to accomodate people. i have 3 goldens, so times your bill by 3 and that is what i paid for yearly and heartworm. i am laid off, but would never consider asking my vet to lower the price because i am laid off. forget your beer and keep your pup on the better food.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

I just wanted to say that there are plenty of pet insurances that do cover routine work-- everything from fecal samples to flea medicine.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Tippykayak, i come from a family(sister, BIL, father, stepmother) of MD's and I can tell you they are far and ahead of practicing vets in the moneymaking dept.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

tippykayak said:


> To the OP: I paid $400/each for the dogs at their exam a few weeks ago. That included exams, boosters, and wellness bloodwork (blood panels and SNAP 4Dx tests for both), as well as 12 doses of Interceptor. So what you paid seems pretty in line with what I'd expect.
> 
> The only exception is that you seem to have paid a lot for prednisone. You can get pet prescriptions filled at CVS or Target if you discuss it with your vet, and it may be a bit cheaper. I just paid $6 for 40 10mg tabs of prednisone for myself at Target, and I know none of it was covered by my insurance.
> 
> ...


Specialists make very good money when they have finished their training. However, that usually isn't until they are well into their 30's. Our son will have 7 years training post med school when he's through in 3 years. In the meantime the salaries are pretty meager... not to mention the horrendous hours they work.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

A veterinarian who is not board certified as a specialist can be equated to a family practice doc. They are not rolling in dough. Specialists are quite a different story, and even still, veterinary specialists are not doing as well financially as specialists in human medicine. We will likely be seeing fewer new docs specializing because of the cost of insurance.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Sally's Mom said:


> Tippykayak, i come from a family(sister, BIL, father, stepmother) of MD's and I can tell you they are far and ahead of practicing vets in the moneymaking dept.


I totally believe that. For the bloodwork and medicine that cost me $400/dog at the vet, I think comparable treatment at my doc's is probably billed to my insurance company at around $1000, and I pay a $25 copay.

And when you think about what a qualified specialist can make, it could be quite a bit more.

Again, the doctors I know personally completely deserve the money they make. I don't want my comments to seem at all like they don't, 'cause my respect for their knowledge and ability is enormous.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

PG, I truly appreciate your comments... I am fortunate that I was not in debt when I graduated.. but I can honestly say that for all the years I have been working my salary is not close to my husband who does the same job!!!


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Specialists make very good money when they have finished their training. However, that usually isn't until they are well into their 30's. Our son will have 7 years training post med school when he's through in 3 years. In the meantime the salaries are pretty meager... not to mention the horrendous hours they work.


Absolutely. Like I said, I have several college friends who've gone through what it takes to become high powered docs, and they go through a lot for it. My point is just that my friends have ended up doing just fine financially. They're all late twenties to mid thirties. I have yet to hear a single one complain about insurance.


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

I can't wait to see how much in debt I will be after I graduate vet school. I am already in debt while applying. 

Vet's aren't out to get you. Definitely talk with them, go in with a limit or ask for an estimate. Times are rough, and it does show. I find more people are asking for estimates even for basic things like vaccinations.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

And my MD/PHd sister who has never practiced medicine a day in her life has a house and a beach house in Madison(near Tippykayak). I have a house, period. But I have 6 goldens!! So my life is rich.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Sally's Mom said:


> PG, I truly appreciate your comments... I am fortunate that I was not in debt when I graduated.. but I can honestly say that for all the years I have been working my salary is not close to my husband who does the same job!!!


And that disparity is reflected when you look at the average national salaries of working veterinarians. 

PayScale - Veterinarian Salary - Average Salary of a Veterinarian

I work in health care. Most docs are no longer "rich". I worked for years as a vet tech, and, God love them, vets have _never _been "rich".


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

tippykayak said:


> I totally believe that. For the bloodwork and medicine that cost me $400/dog at the vet, I think comparable treatment at my doc's is probably billed to my insurance company at around $1000, and I pay a $25 copay.
> 
> And when you think about what a qualified specialist can make, it could be quite a bit more.
> 
> Again, the doctors I know personally completely deserve the money they make. I don't want my comments to seem at all like they don't, 'cause my respect for their knowledge and ability is enormous.


Thank goodness for us for the insurance companies negotiated rate. However, for the docs, even though they're billing 1000, they probably are getting reimbursed for considerably less than half that since they have to accept the ins cos negotiated rate.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> Thank goodness for us for the insurance companies negotiated rate. However, for the docs, even though they're billing 1000, they probably are getting reimbursed for considerably less than half that since they have to accept the ins cos negotiated rate.


Exactly. And for docs who accept Medicaid, it actually _costs _them!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Thanks for the scale, PG. Men earn higher than women. I just got my first raise in at least 5 years or more. I haven't even gotten a cost of living increase.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> Exactly. And for docs who accept Medicaid, it actually _costs _them!


That depends on the state. In Michigan, that's completely true, as the state has repeatedly cut its Medicaid reimbursements. In a handful of states, docs who take Medicaid can break even or better on it.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that the situation varies significantly by state.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Sally's Mom said:


> Men earn higher than women.


This is sadly true in nearly all jobs that aren't determined on a fixed union scale.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Is this true? Vets hurting financially because of people buying medications online?

Our old vet told us that and made me feel extremely guilty buying from 1-800-PetMeds...


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Sally's Mom said:


> Thanks for the scale, PG. Men earn higher than women. I just got my first raise in at least 5 years or more. I haven't even gotten a cost of living increase.


Um, congratulations?  
Thank _you. _I know your side of the exam /surgery table very well. I know what motivates the majority of veterinarians, and it isn't money.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I'm in Michigan and it's amazing the difference between what U of M bills and what actually gets paid. We get statements from Medicare that gives us both figures. The payments to U of M don't come any where near what is billed. Our doctors, mostly Associate Professors, are salaried.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Mirinde said:


> I just wanted to say that there are plenty of pet insurances that do cover routine work-- everything from fecal samples to flea medicine.



Yes there are but in general they are not worth the expense monthly when you consider that routine care visits are only once per year and you'd be better off just saving that $300 than paying monthly for that coverage, IMO.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

My dog woke up howling in the middle of the night and I took him outside and he spent quite a long time peeing. He clearly urgently had to go. I've had him since he was a little puppy and he's never had to go in the middle of the night that way. He used to occasionally wake up in the middle of the night with direrea when he was younger.

It's a side effect of the steroid. One dose did that to him.

Since usually in these types of situations with people a steroid is prescribed to reduce the itching and isn't even what actually addresses the problem, if he's going to be in this amount of discomfort from the side effect, I'm wondering if it even should have been prescribed for him, money nonwithstanding.

And of course I had barely fallen asleep due to insomnia and now I can't sleep again.

I don't blame the dog, of course, it's the medication. I'm wondering if I should blame the vet.

Am I even getting gouged for a good course of treatment? Or is part of what I'm getting gouged for actually counterproductive?


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Golden999 said:


> My dog woke up howling in the middle of the night and I took him outside and he spent quite a long time peeing. He clearly urgently had to go. I've had him since he was a little puppy and he's never had to go in the middle of the night that way. He used to occasionally wake up in the middle of the night with direrea when he was younger.
> 
> It's a side effect of the steroid. One dose did that to him.
> 
> ...


 Steroids are commonly prescribed for skin conditions that don't involve itching. Please don't blame the vet because of this common side effect of steroids--it's not the veterinarian's fault and will not endear you to the veterinarian or his/her staff. If it continues to be a problem for your dog just ask the vet to note it in your dog's chart.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Dallas Gold said:


> Steroids are commonly prescribed for skin conditions that don't involve itching. Please don't blame the vet because of this common side effect of steroids--it's not the veterinarian's fault and will not endear you to the veterinarian or his/her staff. If it continues to be a problem for your dog just ask the vet to note it in your dog's chart.


You're probably right.

I just find this whole situation distressing. My dog's in discomfort. I'm in discomfort. The rest of this month is going to be very difficult in general. And it's not like I normally have things easy.

I just feel this fee almost had me over a barrel. I would have questioned it more at the time had I been on my toes, but, really, assuming they stuck to their guns, it didn't leave me with much alternative. I can't not treat my sick dog.

And, as usual in life, I'm the bad guy if I decide to call up and question their pricing with them. I've been in this situation before with things (Not vets) and people do not react well to having their bills for stuff challenged. 99% I wouldn't get any of my money back, but I would have to have some unpleasant conversations where people get angry with me, and probably in the end have to find a new vet because I'd be labeled a difficult customer and the figurative bridge would have been burnt.

There's something wrong with the world today. Everyone gouges you for your last penny. Sometimes literally your last. No one cuts anyone a break anymore.


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## Noey (Feb 26, 2009)

That was me yesterday.

The heart worm pills get me every time.

A full year is $10 less over getting 6 months. So I purchased the full year for $91. So in my head I divide that by 12...not that bad. 

my visit was $60 - 
HW $91
HW Lyme combo test $43
Poop Float $30
3 year Da2PV $29
and you think they could eat this charge .60 needle disposal.

And I was told Noah is fat...so we are on a diet again.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Golden999 said:


> My dog woke up howling in the middle of the night and I took him outside and he spent quite a long time peeing. He clearly urgently had to go. I've had him since he was a little puppy and he's never had to go in the middle of the night that way. He used to occasionally wake up in the middle of the night with direrea when he was younger.
> 
> It's a side effect of the steroid. One dose did that to him.
> 
> ...


Please. You really need to try to channel your anger elsewhere. You seem to be looking for more reasons to blame your vet for something that is really unfounded. He has not "gouged" you. Excessive thirst and subsequent urination is a common (and temporary) side effect of steroid. Which is not prescribed unless necessary. And in the case of your pet, I would agree has been prescribed appropriately.It is not causing him as much discomfort as the symptoms it was prescribed to help.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Golden999 said:


> There's something wrong with the world today. Everyone gouges you for your last penny. Sometimes literally your last. No one cuts anyone a break anymore.


See... I've felt this way about gas prices and the fact that there are people out there (politicians, carmakers, economists, etc) who think it would be a good idea to raise gas prices or keep them high to force people to buy different types of cars. 

I was listening to something on the radio with this economist who was casually talking about how he would rather see the prices stay high instead of going down due to oil prices dropping - and just about snapped my steering wheel off in anger. Because I do remember prices being under 90 cents. Thankfully, when I was a teen and paid less than I am right now, I had a lot more freedom in how far I could drive in a week or month or year, because $10 filled my tank. 

This meant I could drive farther to work and I could spend more money on other things. About now, I've had to work $60/week for gas into my budget, which means I spend less on other things. This while other people have raised their prices because they are passing their rising gas costs on their customers.

That is gouging. That is a tax on the poor. That is something I will join any and all ranting about.

Bashing the vet for a big vet bill which is compiled of a lot of different necessary things, many of which you've gotten out of the way and don't have to spend money on for the next 6-12 months, I don't get it. 

If you talk about vet gouging, the thing to watch out for are those vets who constantly guilt talk their customers into having a lot of expensive and unnecessary things done, even though it's obvious that the customer can't afford to do those things. Like teeth cleaning, for example.

And then there are other cases where new or young vets might be a bit more gungho and mistaken as far as perceived health issues. 

A good example was one of our old vets who knew that I was just starting work and did not have too much credit or savings built up. Nevertheless, I remember the last summer we were with this vet - they scare talked us into having an expensive ($100+) blood test done on one dog because she was convinced his eyes looked yellow. The blood test was completely clear of any problems and better than dogs his age - and another vet had no idea what that vet was talking about as far as yellow eyes and said our dog's eyes looked great. She actually rolled her eyes. 

If you ran into something like that at your vet, we could definitely talk and rant away. 

But that list you compiled - it just like grocery shopping. Every item you put into that cart is going to cost. 

Something I do so I don't get sticker shock is I really break up everything I have done. The most important or urgent things are done first. Then I spread out the other things. The fecal test, for example. If your dog isn't showing signs of worms, you can push it off to later in the year. The heartworm pills, you can buy monthly. The shots could be switched to a three year schedule now that you've gotten past all of the puppy and one year boosters. 

With my guy he needs to have his ears checked. I know how much this is going to cost, so I'm handling it at home until I can pay the vet cost out of pocket (next week).

At the same visit I will have to refill a thyroid prescription for him, which means that I'm probably only going to buy a month's worth instead of 3 months like I did last time. 

Don't be shy about discussing costs with the vet or vet assistant. And just work with the budget you have so you can take care of your dog.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

I thought we had already discussed that the bill looks appropriate... just because you were not prepared for the amount doesnt mean that you were gouged.... everyone on this thread who looked at the bill thought it looked about right... 

I agree with pointgold you really need to focus your frustration elsewhere... your vet did nothing wrong

s


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## C's Mom (Dec 7, 2009)

I find it helpful to put money aside every month for my dog and his needs. $300.00 sounds about right for a wellness check, heartworm meds with a shot or two. If you save this amount by this time next year you won't feel the pinch so much.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I have a client who with her first dog, put money aside every month for medical expenses. The dog acquired quite a bank account. She is now deceased, but when dog #2 needed a pacemaker(other than her ticker, she was in great health), there was $3000 to do the procedure.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

And here, if you ask for a written prescription, we are obligated to give it to you. Just as we are obligated to sign Pet Med, etc requests. Our local pharmacies have prescriptions that you can fill for $4.00. We will also match online prices.... And many ophthalmic drops have just gotten out of control, but it is the companies manufacturing them that have caused this.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Sally's Mom said:


> I have a client who with her first dog, put money aside every month for medical expenses. The dog acquired quite a bank account. She is now deceased, but when dog #2 needed a pacemaker(other than her ticker, she was in great health), there was $3000 to do the procedure.


We do this....but...it would be so much easier if the bank would just let us designate an account in Toby's name.  Since he doesn't have a SSN (thank goodness!!) it just can't happen so we depend on my accounting skills to virtually designate it in our savings account.


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

Unfortunately, today the cost you incurred are in line with many vet offices in the north east. The vet isn't gauging. For every client they see they have to they have to adjust their bill to take in their overhead. 
They have to maintain the building/mortgage/rent (depending where they are located there will be a higher or lower price for this.
They have to purchase supplies
They have to have the medical equipment
They have to pay their office employees
They have to pay their techs
They have to pay the vets working there.
They have to pay for internet/phone/electric/heat/water

Being a responsible owner and taking our dogs to the vet for yearly well visits/vacs and when they are ill can be expensive. And as our dogs get older many need to see the vet more often. It isn't inexpensive to own a pet anymore.  But, it is important to give them the best care that we can give.

There are some vets that are able to run their business with a lower overhead than others. For actual vaccinations many local areas run clinics that give lower prices (that doesn't help when you dog needs medical treatment not regularly scheduled shots) 
After you have your dogs problem under control you could price shop vet offices to see if you can get a better rate elsewhere, as again some offices do have a lower overhead and can charge less. But, your price tag you had to pay is reasonable for the north east.

I hope your doggie gets well soon and that the meds do help.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Megora said:


> See... I've felt this way about gas prices and the fact that there are people out there (politicians, carmakers, economists, etc) who think it would be a good idea to raise gas prices or keep them high to force people to buy different types of cars.
> 
> I was listening to something on the radio with this economist who was casually talking about how he would rather see the prices stay high instead of going down due to oil prices dropping - and just about snapped my steering wheel off in anger. Because I do remember prices being under 90 cents. Thankfully, when I was a teen and paid less than I am right now, I had a lot more freedom in how far I could drive in a week or month or year, because $10 filled my tank.
> 
> ...


You're basically correct that gas prices have gotten out of control. I am not all *that* old, around 30, and I can remember 98 cent a gallon gas. $20 would always fill my tank when I first started driving, sometimes less, and that really wasn't that long ago in the grand scheme of things.

In a way, gas taxes are regressive. They are not completely regressive, because the rich will sometimes drive more and some very poor folks don't have access to cars and don't pay it, but it is a situation where the poor guy barely getting by still has basic needs for his car and has to pay the same amount per gallon as a really rich guy, which is a much greater percentage of the poor guy's income, which isn't really right. I really prefer income taxes and the like where you can have higher rates once certain income thresholds are passed on those additional dollars.

Why we're giving tax subsidies to oil companies that are making record profits with record high prices these last few years, I don't know. If people in Washington want to reduce the debt and make cuts, that's where I'd start, not going after programs for people barely scraping by.

Now, I do think global climate change and dependence on oil are legitimate issues for concern, but to me the way to address that is not to raise the price of gas, but rather to hold new vehicles to higher emissions standards. That way, people will have lower gas bills and over all emissions will be lower -- and it'll be a fairly painless transition where people will simply find that their next car gets more miles to the gallon, maybe on a delayed basis if they buy used cars, but eventually. And emission standards are going up, maybe not as quickly or as fast as they should, but they are at least sort of working on it.

The other thing we could do is build more quicker, cheaper, more efficient mass transit to more destinations in more areas. Then a lot of people would voluntarily choose to use it, which also would help environmentally, and in terms of lessening our dependence on the oil markets. And of course people who don't want to use it still wouldn't have to. Think of all the jobs we'd create just hiring people to lay track and build the trains and all that stuff -- could be a boost to the economy to boot, which the economy sorely needs.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Sally's Mom said:


> And here, if you ask for a written prescription, we are obligated to give it to you. Just as we are obligated to sign Pet Med, etc requests. Our local pharmacies have prescriptions that you can fill for $4.00. We will also match online prices.... And many ophthalmic drops have just gotten out of control, but it is the companies manufacturing them that have caused this.


I have no qualms about asking for a prescription I can take to Walmart to fill. Sometimes the veterinary clinic will honor the price, sometimes they tell me it's easier through Walmart. Toby's ophthalmologist actually writes prescriptions without asking. As far as the eye meds pricing increasing I was told that Bausch & Lomb bought a bunch of the smaller companies and is jacking up the pricing. It seems anti-competitive and I wonder why it wasn't flagged by the govt. because it affects a lot of people in this country (sorry, don't mean to go political--just wondering).


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I thought this was about veterinary costs... and a bill which is very much in line with those across the country.
Veterinarians, frankly, are underpaid. Some treat them as "less" than doctors, but think about it - MD's (and please - I am NOT discounting their training, knowledge, and skills one iota) learn about one specie - humans. Veterinarians have to know canine, feline, equine, bovine, avian, porcine, etc etc etc...
I think they are a bargain.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I only wish I could see a veterinarian for my health needs at times.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Dallas Gold said:


> We do this....but...it would be so much easier if the bank would just let us designate an account in Toby's name.  Since he doesn't have a SSN (thank goodness!!) it just can't happen so we depend on my accounting skills to virtually designate it in our savings account.


Some of those online savings banks let you start a bunch of savings accounts at a time with no fees or minimum balances. You can't open one in your dog's name, but you can nickname the account and it'll just show up as "Toby" or whatever when you log in to check it online. The downside is that it takes a few business days for transfers to get back to your regular checking account, so it might not work in a sudden emergency type situation that can't wait a few days.



solinvictus said:


> It isn't inexpensive to own a pet anymore.


I don't understand why that's changed so dramatically seemingly in less than a generation. Even when I was growing up, it seemed like vet visits were far less expensive and a lot of this stuff didn't seem to be required. My childhood dog cost like $40 (Granted, we got a deal from people we knew) and his overall maintenance costs were considerably less than I'm dealing with today.



> I hope your doggie gets well soon and that the meds do help.


Thanks. He's really not that visibly suffering. He's still very friendly and hyperactive and basically his usual self. I could tell something was up because he was scratching and biting himself more than usual, but he was actually just in for his annual checkup and not specifically for that. I just happened to mention it when asked about any concerns and all of the sudden it turned out that he had a bacterial infection. I don't doubt that he does have it, it's just I think somewhat harder psychologically to deal with these costs when he doesn't seem sick or worn down. I think his emergency bathroom run caused him more distress than the itching seems to, honestly.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

MD's, DDS's, DVM's or VMD's all have 4 years of college and 4 years of professional school. In fact, when I went to Tufts, the first 2 years of basic sciences were done with the medical and dental schools. And I have a sister who is an MDPhD(who has never practiced) who was astonished I can hear heart murmurs....


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

The only animals from my childhood that got routine vet care were the horses... But things have changed in 50 years. Heck, I remember that dog food choices were Purina, Alpo, Gravy Train, and those fake semi moist hamburgers.... and we didn't have heartworm...


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

this is starting to seem more and more like a rant about society and inequality than it is about vet costs.... and honestly nobody wants my opinion on that so I think its about time for me to bow out before MY blood pressure goes up... 

over and out 
s


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

ETA - I know this is completely off topic, but it's enough of a nagging point to me that I have to say something. Sorry guys. 



Golden999 said:


> In a way, gas taxes are regressive. They are not completely regressive, because the rich will sometimes drive more and some very poor folks don't have access to cars and don't pay it, but it is a situation where the poor guy barely getting by still has basic needs for his car and has to pay the same amount per gallon as a really rich guy, which is a much greater percentage of the poor guy's income, which isn't really right.


And it's worse than that, because the rich can afford those super gas efficient cars and the poor can't. Until the prices for those cars drop in price, you are still going to have higher punishment on those people who can't afford to buy or lease a car every five years and can't get a car loan or pay the car insurance costs for those more expensive newer cars. And I'm saying that as somebody whose parents generally bought $300-1000 uber used old station wagons way back then and never bought a "new" car until the economic heyday in the 90's. 

Mass transit and bicycle routes are not the answer for people in most rural areas. I know a lot of people would like a rail system (me included, as long as it isn't in my backyard or means further destruction to our environment or more urbanization meaning that people who like living out in the middle of nowhere would have to pick up their belongings and move further away from where they work...), but it isn't the answer for everything. It wouldn't much help us dog owners who need to get back and forth to class or drive long distances to trials, for example... 

And there are people who prefer the privacy and comfort of their own car (home away from home) if they have a long commute back and forth to work every day. 

It's never a simple quick fix.

As far as people who want to raise gas taxes to keep those gas prices high and force people to buy cars they are not financially ready to buy... that's the surest way to smack a fragile recovering economy around with a crowbar.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Megora said:


> As far as people who want to raise gas taxes to keep those gas prices high and force people to buy cars they are not financially ready to buy... that's the surest way to smack a fragile recovering economy around with a crowbar.


I know this is OT, but I wanted to raise two points of fact. If you're talking about the US, gas prices are heavily subsidized by the federal government. They're lower than they'd be without government intervention. Right now, the price at the pump does not reflect the real cost it takes right now to get it out of the ground, refine it, and deliver it at the rates demanded by current world consumption.

It's an interesting economic argument as to whether we should stop subsidizing that cost difference and let prices rise to where supply and demand would leave them. I think it's a compelling argument to say that we should stop taxing them on the consumer end, but if we do that, it makes equal sense to stop subsidizing them on the production side. A good argument I've heard for taxes is that they can be used to cushion spikes in prices to help prices rise gradually instead of suddenly, so people have time to compensate. But artificially jacking up prices just to force lower-income people to change their habits? That doesn't sit well with me.

And one other point of fact: lots of cars with great mileage are really cheap. You can get a fancy hybrid luxury car and get great mileage for $50,000+, or you can buy a basic I-4 sedan or hatchback and get similarly good mileage without any fancy equipment. Check out the basic Fords and Hondas. You do have to be willing to compromise on space to get great mileage, but they've been doing that for years pretty much everywhere else in the world, so I'm sure we can get the hang of it.

Gas prices are going up, no matter what we do. There's lots of oil out there, but we've gone through much of the stuff that's easy to access, so it's getting more expensive to get it. What we should do about that is a great question, but alas, I feel if I go there, I'll end up in territory forbidden by GRF rules.


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## The_Artful_Dodger (Mar 26, 2009)

Next time you have a big vet bill (dogs are expensive and if they get sick/injured you can expect this) you should ask your vet if they have a payment plan. I know my vet will work with clients who have difficulty paying their bills. They ask what they can pay at the time and will make arrangements for them to pay it off over time. They might not be as gracious if someone throws a fit complaining that they shouldn't have to pay the bill - they know that if they don't collect that person will never pay up. I set aside a little money each month so that I will have that the next time I have a larger vet bill. Also, the vet doesn't know your financial situation so unless you explain that money is tight, they aren't likely going to give you an estimate ahead of time for each thing, unless you ask. I don't want to sound rude, but taking care of a dog can be expensive and you chose that responsibility. You may not have realised how expensive a dog can be but yelling at the vet is not going to help. I get that it sucks, but looking for someone to blame will not make things better. And the people who don't pay just drive up the prices for the rest of us, and most of the rest of us aren't rolling around in extra cash either.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

tippykayak said:


> I know this is OT, but I wanted to raise two points of fact. If you're talking about the US, gas prices are heavily subsidized by the federal government. They're lower than they'd be without government intervention. Right now, the price at the pump does not reflect the real cost it takes right now to get it out of the ground, refine it, and deliver it at the rates demanded by current world consumption.


I'm not against gas subsidies. A lot of that is way over my head and I can't argue either way for that reason. 



> And one other point of fact: lots of cars with great mileage are really cheap. You can get a fancy hybrid luxury car and get great mileage for $50,000+,


You can buy a nice house with a lot of acreage for $50,000. And your mortgage would be a lot cheaper than the car payments would be.

Even with a $10,000 base price you are already asking people to take out a 5+ year loan to pay off that car. And not everyone is willing to pay that much for a car, especially since the value goes down as soon as you pull out of the lot.

Yes, there are cars that hold their value longer - but they cost a lot more than $10K.



> Gas prices are going up, no matter what we do. There's lots of oil out there, but we've gone through much of the stuff that's easy to access, so it's getting more expensive to get it.


This goes into a seperate and highly political topic for me, so I'm not touching this. 

I is good. :wavey:


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

The_Artful_Dodger said:


> I don't want to sound rude, but taking care of a dog can be expensive and you chose that responsibility. You may not have realised how expensive a dog can be but yelling at the vet is not going to help. I get that it sucks, but looking for someone to blame will not make things better. And the people who don't pay just drive up the prices for the rest of us, and most of the rest of us aren't rolling around in extra cash either.


I don't think these rates are fair. They've gone up much higher than the rate of inflation over the years. What can I do to try to effect change on this? Why is the solution always either "Smile and love the fees or don't own a dog."? Why do vets automatically have the right to charge whatever they want and I don't even have the right to be upset about it when I feel it's too much?


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Also, how can I as a customer send a message that the veterinarian should think twice about raising rates unnecessarily if I don't get upset or refuse to pay or move my business elsewhere or do something? Because grumbling about it for 5 seconds relatively politely isn't going to make them think twice when they want to give me a $400 bill next year and a $500 bill the year after that to pad their pockets at my expense.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Golden999 said:


> I don't think these rates are fair. They've gone up much higher than the rate of inflation over the years. What can I do to try to effect change on this? Why is the solution always either "Smile and love the fees or don't own a dog."? Why do vets automatically have the right to charge whatever they want and I don't even have the right to be upset about it when I feel it's too much?


 
Then doctor shop. Don't go where you don't like the rates. Simple. Or, stand in line when a shelter puts on a free clinic. If you don't like it, go somewhere else, because yelling at them isn't going to help your cause. They don't HAVE to "think twice" simply because YOU don't like it. The majority of their clients understand, and as members here, all over the US have said, the prices are in line.
Maybe you might need to face the possibility that due to your circumstances, you really can't afford a dog.

These vets, contrary to what you cannot seem to understand, are NOT GOUGING you. The prices ARE fair, and as business people, they DO have a right to charge whatever they want. You can be as upset as you want, and complain and rant about it, but the bottom line is that they are NOT getting rich off of you or anyone else, and in fact most do NOT charge what they are truly worth.


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## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

@Golden999

The vet fees you listed are quite reasonable. I live in Illinois and have been paying $45 for a visit since 2009. If you want to see a specialist, walking in the door is quite a bit more. I Titer (and only do Rabies and Bordatella) and don't do vaccines but the vaccine fees you list are cheaper than I paid in 2007 when I brought home my dog as a 10 week old puppy. A three rabies vaccine was $45 in 2008. 

I'm not a vet, but in general I don't think vets are getting rich in their practices. They have a lot of expenses to run a practice. Some are basically running a hospital, doing surgeries etc. My vet's fees have either not increased or have increased minimally in the past 4 years. Vet's here tend to have office every day of the week (including weekends) and tend to be in the office until at least 7pm three days a week.

Enough for my 2 cents.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

did you ever just feel like you are banging your head against a rock


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Shalva said:


> did you ever just feel like you are banging your head against a rock


 
Like, now?:banghead:


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## Sterling Archer (Feb 8, 2011)

You might want to look into pet insurance. The only problem is that annual exams, shots, and other "normal" items are not covered. Simply put...veterinary care is a "you've gotta pay to play" deal. Unless you have pet insurance (which I contemplated), you're going to wind up with a $150+ bill for anything more involved than a basic check-up and a shot or two. 

That is why so many animals do not receive proper veterinary care and why animals with broken limbs and other serious injuries wind up getting put down. The average Joe can't afford to pay $1,000+ to get Fido's leg fixed.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

I also really genuinely do not think they are gouging you... cost of medicine has gone up, period. Technology advanced, available testing advanced, basic equipment advanced, prescriptions advanced and that all causes cost increases. You have to remember that it is still a business... they are still paying for their location, for their boarding, for their equipment, their staff, etc. Ultimately, you paid what is average and in some areas of your bill, you even got a decent deal. It is unfortunate that cost of living in general is so high in some areas, but I'm not one to knock the cost of medicine (and that's coming from someone that has experienced first hand what 20k+ in uninsured medical bills feels like). We're able to do beautiful things with medicine these days and that costs money.

I _would_ however, shop around for another vet that is more understanding and aware of financial strain and will be better able to work with you through a variety of means, including automatically itemized estimates, payment plans, and better consulting you before any treatments. 




Mssjnnfer said:


> Also, I have to say... if someone worked hard for their job... I don't really see anything wrong with living the "good life" ... you know? Yeah, don't treat other people like crap but if you earned it you deserve it.


Thank you for bringing this up. My fiance and I are dealing with some "good life" jealousy from his side of the family and it hits really close to home for me.


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## Sterling Archer (Feb 8, 2011)

Mirinde said:


> I _would_ however, shop around for another vet that is more understanding and aware of financial strain and will be better able to work with you through a variety of means, including automatically itemized estimates, payment plans, and better consulting you before any treatments.


Yup. The prices for veterinary care varies greatly from one vet to another. The first vet I took the cat to had a $20 office visit fee, cheaper shots, etc. The current place has a $50 office visit fee, it was $50 for a two week anti-bacterial shot, but the quality of care is MUCH better.

Ask around, but be careful. In some cases you really do get what you pay for. If I'd gone to the second vet to begin with, I highly doubt my cat would have ended up blocked ($$$$) to begin with.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

Yeah, that's why I didn't necessarily mention cheaper. Our current vet is right on par with the average costs but they are VERY understanding to crappy financial situations. They estimate as best as they can via phone, everything is itemized, they talk through treatments, are open to designing treatment around what you can afford if it's possible, and do payment plans in emergent situations. Skimping on price for animal care tends to end badly but there are other ways vets can be considerate of the bank account.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Sterling Archer said:


> You might want to look into pet insurance. The only problem is that annual exams, shots, and other "normal" items are not covered. Simply put...veterinary care is a "you've gotta pay to play" deal. Unless you have pet insurance (which I contemplated), you're going to wind up with a $150+ bill for anything more involved than a basic check-up and a shot or two.
> 
> That is why so many animals do not receive proper veterinary care and why animals with broken limbs and other serious injuries wind up getting put down. The average Joe can't afford to pay $1,000+ to get Fido's leg fixed.


Ironically, if he had a broken leg, it probably would have been significantly less expensive for me. I know some here would be horrified, but I have a retired human doctor in my extended family, and I am fairly confident in his ability to set a bone and wrap it up, and he'd probably do it for free. I can't imagine there's much difference between dogs and humans when it comes to setting a broken leg.

But it's not something I was really confident about risking with a bacteria infection. Bones may be bones, but the way a dog's internal metabolism operates and the types of infections they can get are probably pretty different from humans and I wouldn't want to chance a human antibiotic or steroid or whatever, because it could make the problem worse or cause other problems. Drug wise, I really only have confident with things that are created for pets. After all, dogs can die from eating common human foods like chocolate or grapes in excess -- so who knows what human medicine would do.

I wish I had shopped around, but it's kind of a rock and a hard place type issue. I don't want my pet to suffer or risk his life as an infection gets worse, so I had to pay. It's not even like my human medicines for myself where I can pharmacy shop. There aren't really physical dog pharmacies around town. There's mail order, I guess, but he needed the medicine right away probably -- I couldn't wait around for a week while this infection ravaged him while someone shipped me questionable medication from Timbuck2.

I guess basically what's done is done. I wish I had at least asked whether the shampoo was really necessary. I didn't realize I had purchased a $30 shampoo until I looked at the bill later. Maybe it is necessary, who knows. But I wish I had been more assertive about asking. Maybe I would have been alright with just the antibotics and the steroids, or even just the antibotics.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Mirinde said:


> I _would_ however, shop around for another vet that is more understanding and aware of financial strain and will be better able to work with you through a variety of means, including automatically itemized estimates, payment plans, and better consulting you before any treatments.


Yeah, I think that is what I will do next year. I may call these people and give them a chance to offer me a better deal beforehand next year, but if not I think it's time to find somewhere else, even if I have to drive a bit or whatever. I'm near a state line, maybe things would be cheaper if I crossed it to find a vet.

I thought this place was supposed to be pretty reasonable. My dog's biological parents had went there (and their owners fed their dogs pretty basic food and seemed reasonably price conscious), I had a poor neighbor who I think ultimately wound up homeless who took her dogs there, and unlike one of the other places in town, the online reviews didn't talk about getting price gouged. But that was when it was $125-$150 (including heart guard and vaccinations). I didn't expect it to double in a year -- granted there are some extra medicines here, but... I mean, even if they had come in at around $200, I probably wouldn't have started a thread or complained overly much, given the extra medicine. But $300?


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Golden999 said:


> Ironically, if he had a broken leg, it probably would have been significantly less expensive for me. I know some here would be horrified, but I have a retired human doctor in my extended family, and I am fairly confident in his ability to set a bone and wrap it up, and he'd probably do it for free. I can't imagine there's much difference between dogs and humans when it comes to setting a broken leg.
> 
> But it's not something I was really confident about risking with a bacteria infection. Bones may be bones, but the way a dog's internal metabolism operates and the types of infections they can get are probably pretty different from humans and I wouldn't want to chance a human antibiotic or steroid or whatever, because it could make the problem worse or cause other problems. Drug wise, I really only have confident with things that are created for pets. After all, dogs can die from eating common human foods like chocolate or grapes in excess -- so who knows what human medicine would do.
> 
> ...


 
Any doc that cares to maintain his license would not do it. And you are overlooking a lot. You'd need radiographs to determine the kind of break. The dog may well need to be sedated to get that radiograph. There is a huge difference between a close or open reduction. Surgery may be required. And antibiotics are a necesscity with a break to prevent infection. 
It's just not that simple, and I really think that you are obsessing over this without a real solid reason to be so angry at this vet.


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## Sterling Archer (Feb 8, 2011)

Golden999 said:


> Yeah, I think that is what I will do next year. I may call these people and give them a chance to offer me a better deal beforehand next year, but if not I think it's time to find somewhere else, even if I have to drive a bit or whatever. I'm near a state line, maybe things would be cheaper if I crossed it to find a vet.
> 
> I thought this place was supposed to be pretty reasonable. My dog's biological parents had went there (and their owners fed their dogs pretty basic food and seemed reasonably price conscious), I had a poor neighbor who I think ultimately wound up homeless who took her dogs there, and unlike one of the other places in town, the online reviews didn't talk about getting price gouged. But that was when it was $125-$150 (including heart guard and vaccinations). I didn't expect it to double in a year -- granted there are some extra medicines here, but... I mean, even if they had come in at around $200, I probably wouldn't have started a thread or complained overly much, given the extra medicine. But $300?


Look and see what meds you can pick up on your own for cheaper.You know that getting shampoo on your own will save you $20+. As the others said...I don't think you got gouged. I think they just gave you the Ultra Premium Mega Accessory package (just being sarcastic...you know what I mean). 

When I had to take the cat to the E-vet, the doc worked with me on the bill total. I was in a similar situation and got him to help me out. I paid ~$633 instead of the $850-1,150 they initially said. ~$200 was knocked off by not doing a blood test that he said I didn't really need to do (that's likely a high profit test for them). After talking to the vet, they clearly understand that some people have hundreds to burn on needless tests and others don't.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

BECAUSE YOU WEREN'T GOUGED 

OMG how many times do we have to say that 
YOU MIGHT NOT BE HAPPY WITH WHAT YOU PAID 

BUT 

YOU WEREN"T GOUGED.... 

ok now my blood pressure is going up.... I mean honestly 
every single person has said the same thing
many have given you ideas about how to help financially (most of those ideas you just ignored) 

and you keep coming back to the same thing in between rants about the state of society

HONESTLY 

its starting to feel like that movie GroundHog Day

YOU WERE NOT GOUGED

YOU WERE NOT GOUGED 

YOU WERE NOT GOUGED

1.....2.....3.....4....5.....6.... 
counting to ten and taking a breath

where is that banging head thing....


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

Shalva, I'm beginning to think forums are not a very productive place for you to be prior to taking a xanax, having a drink, or using some recreational drugs, haha! You always get so flustered. 

*hugs* It's okay, the rest of us understand.


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

I'd say those were reasonable costs for vetinary care. Consider this: I had Miri eat a bunch of chicken bones due to a raccoon or bear digging through my neighbors trash. I fed her half a loaf of bread and took her to the vet within the hour. In total it cost me over 700 dollars Canadian just to find out that she was fine... 

700 dollars broke down to this

150 dollars emergency fee (after hours)
300 for x-rays (she had to be sedated I think)
150 overnight fee with somebody with her all night
and 100 dollars in misc charges that I can't really remember.

700 dollars sounds crazy.... until you break down the charges and see that even in my case... its not completely psychotic.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Mirinde said:


> Shalva, I'm beginning to think forums are not a very productive place for you to be prior to taking a xanax, having a drink, or using some recreational drugs, haha! You always get so flustered.
> 
> *hugs* It's okay, the rest of us understand.


you know honestly you might be right 
this kind of thing just frustrates the cr*p out of me... 
people saying the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and honestly it starts feeling like its very attention getting... 

I think I need wine 
you are right
I ahve to teach tonight.... I hope my students listen cause I am so not in the mood lolol


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Braccarius said:


> I'd say those were reasonable costs for vetinary care. Consider this: I had Miri eat a bunch of chicken bones due to a raccoon or bear digging through my neighbors trash. I fed her half a loaf of bread and took her to the vet within the hour. In total it cost me over 700 dollars Canadian just to find out that she was fine...
> 
> 700 dollars broke down to this
> 
> ...


 
Quit being all rational and sensible. It's uncalled for. :curtain:


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Shalva, here ya go:
:banghead:

I think I'll use that one too!


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## The_Artful_Dodger (Mar 26, 2009)

Golden999 said:


> Also, how can I as a customer send a message that the veterinarian should think twice about raising rates unnecessarily if I don't get upset or refuse to pay or move my business elsewhere or do something? Because grumbling about it for 5 seconds relatively politely isn't going to make them think twice when they want to give me a $400 bill next year and a $500 bill the year after that to pad their pockets at my expense.


The clinic has to pay the wholesale costs to obtain the medications, test supplies, vaccines, and shampoo. They have to pay the vet, the techs, and the receptionist who all handled your visit. They have to pay for building maintenance, utilities, etc. They have to pay for ongoing training of thier staff. The profit made by your visit is not padding anyone's pocket. 

My friend is a vet. She doesn't live lavish. She pays a lot of money in vet bills each month for her own dog - that is at cost to the clinic - it's still alot. I don't know how much money she makes. I do know that she budgets. I also know that she often works extremely long hours, gets called out in the middle of the night, works through her lunch to do surgeries. I also know that people will yell at her and say she doesn't care about animals because they don't want to pay thier bills. 

You don't have to be a customer of that vet if you don't want to be.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

The_Artful_Dodger said:


> The clinic has to pay the wholesale costs to obtain the medications, test supplies, vaccines, and shampoo. They have to pay the vet, the techs, and the receptionist who all handled your visit. They have to pay for building maintenance, utilities, etc. They have to pay for ongoing training of thier staff. The profit made by your visit is not padding anyone's pocket.
> 
> My friend is a vet. She doesn't live lavish. She pays a lot of money in vet bills each month for her own dog - that is at cost to the clinic - it's still alot. I don't know how much money she makes. I do know that she budgets. I also know that she often works extremely long hours, gets called out in the middle of the night, works through her lunch to do surgeries. I also know that people will yell at her and say she doesn't care about animals because they don't want to pay thier bills.
> 
> You don't have to be a customer of that vet if you don't want to be.


Don't forget they must pay for liability insurance, for their premises and for their professional skills (aka malpractice). Plus, many who do not charge at the time of the visit carry bad debt balances for non-paying clients, which just increase costs for the rest of us. That's probably why most of the veterinary clinics are pay at the time of service.

Goldens 999, you better hope your dog doesn't require the services of an after hours emergency clinic--they print out an estimate of high and low charges, then charge your credit card for the higher estimate and refund after the fact. I almost passed out for Barkley's overnight aftercare from his splenectomy. Once I got over the shock I gladly handed over my credit card because these people were treating my beloved dog and helping him survive a major surgical procedure.

I only wish our annual visits with Toby's veterinarian were as cheap as the OPs...seriously, those are very reasonable charges. I'll repeat...those are very reasonable charges!:bowl:


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

OP, please post the specific brands of shampoos and sizes you paid for. I'm curious.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

*Update*

Alright, before I give the update, I do want to say that I understand what you all are saying about the charges relative to other vets and how many view them as reasonable. I'm not ignoring that, and I'm taking it into consideration.

However, comparing it to the cost of my own human health care, and to the costs I paid to this very clinic for this very animal last year, I don't think it's reasonable. I talked to two other dog owners who's pets get regular veterinary care and they were both shocked at the cost. One paid $50 for a vet visit that included a vaccination or two just recently, total (I will be calling her vet first next year). I understand why some disagree with that assessment and we can agree to disagree.

So, here's the update:

I called the clinic this afternoon. I was very polite and told them who I was and said everyone was very nice and professional, but that I have decided to take my business elsewhere next time. I explained my issues with the cost and exactly why I felt it was too much relative to various other things (like my human medical care with chronic conditions and prescriptions), and that given how high it was relative to the cost of last year's visit, and how it was going to effect my standard of living for the next month or two, and that it should have been mentioned to me before I saw a bill. I even said I wasn't going to rant and rave, but that I just wanted to tell them for their own information what it was I was dissatisfied about so they understand why they lost my business and it's not a great mystery why I don't show up next summer and to please pass it on to the vet or the office manager or whoever handles those sort of things. I think the word I used was unacceptable.

I told them I had taken the day to think about it, which is why I didn't say much yesterday, and that I understand the money is gone now, and that I paid the bill because I love my pet. I also told them that if they wanted to retain my business in the future, they could work out some sort of a discount or refund for these services, and gave them a call back number if they wanted to have someone call me and work something out. They obviously don't have to, but I wanted to give them that avenue to not lose me as a customer, in case they thought it was worthwhile to do something to retain me, rather than just not giving them any options.

I mean, it's a lesson learned. I can't get my money back now most likely. But I didn't want to just walk away from it without making my feelings known to some degree. Nor did I just want to switch vets without them understanding why I switched. I think the only way they are going to know that they are losing consumers due to pricing is if the consumers tell them -- otherwise they could assume anything (i.e. maybe I just didn't like the vet or the quality of care, moved out of town, etc.). Everything was fine except options were not clearly presented to me and the price was too high.

Granted, after I hung up I realized I'm going to have trouble getting more heart worm medicine in 6 months without paying a different vet to examine my dog 6 months early for no apparent reason. But maybe I can look into that liquid stuff some people mentioned on the thread.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Dallas Gold said:


> OP, please post the specific brands of shampoos and sizes you paid for. I'm curious.


PhytoVet- 16oz. $29.70


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Golden999 said:


> PhytoVet- 16oz. $29.70


For an 8 oz bottle (half size) of the same product on Amazon $15.93:
Amazon.com: PhytoVet CK Antiseptic Shampoo, 8 oz.: Everything Else

Seems the price you were charged was a little less than the Amazon price. 

I thought you said there were 2 shampoos?


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Dallas Gold said:


> I thought you said there were 2 shampoos?


No, one shampoo and then two bottles of pills -- 1 steroid, 1 antibotic. I itemized it all with the exact names, quantities, and prices earlier in the thread. I know it's easy to miss posts when a thread gets this big, though. It's a lot to keep up with.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I probably shouldn't comment, but honestly... I really hope you keep in mind that your dog is going to need a follow up appointment for his skin to make sure his infection is cleared up. With my vet, they waive the fees for follow up visits. 

And you need to figure out where you are going to take your dog for vet care - this year. Ideally, you are only going to make one vet visit a year. But it does not always work out that way. You need to have a trusted vet you can call up to handle things whenever that may be. 

As far as that other vet - make sure it's somebody you trust.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Megora said:


> I probably shouldn't comment, but honestly... I really hope you keep in mind that your dog is going to need a follow up appointment for his skin to make sure his infection is cleared up.


I specifically asked before I left the appointment yesterday if he was going to need a followup visit and the receptionist said no, no followup unless his problems continued. That seemed a little questionable to me, too, but they are the experts.


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## The_Artful_Dodger (Mar 26, 2009)

Golden999 said:


> I also told them that if they wanted to retain my business in the future, they could work out some sort of a discount or refund for these services, and gave them a call back number if they wanted to have someone call me and work something out. They obviously don't have to, but I wanted to give them that avenue to not lose me as a customer, in case they thought it was worthwhile to do something to retain me, rather than just not giving them any options.
> 
> .


I doubt the clinic is going to want to offer a refund to keep a customer who most likely wont want to pay future bills.


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

Trying not to get involved...Trying not to get involved....Trying not to get involved.....AAARRGHHH!!! 

Where is the zipper faced smiley????!!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

:--keep_silent:That's the closest I could find!


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

Dallas Gold said:


> :--keep_silent:That's the closest I could find!


Looks pretty good to me!! How did I miss that?


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Stretchdrive said:


> Looks pretty good to me!! How did I miss that?


On my computer once I hit Advanced and More under the icons I must manually expand the pop up. It's down a bit and I think it's on the right side that I expand. There are some icons on there I don't have a clue what they mean. :uhoh:


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

I will have to check that out!! Thanks!


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

In my 25 years as a vet, I have dealt with all kinds of animals and people. What I have never understood is that after you have a 20 year relationship with someone, perhaps you had an off day(they are allowed aren't they?) and that client is now done with you.... Wow... my expectation is that the client will address the issue with me, so I can either "fix" the situation or figure out how to make it work for both of us. An example, a client I have known for 25 years was in. First he had cats, then dogs, all were deceased. So when I saw a rescue GSD that looked just liked the last one he lost, I called him up. He adopted her... she was a potential fear biter... so literally every day, he came into the clinic and sat with her in the waiting room. She grew comfortable and I was never afraid she would bite and I never muzzled her. Well, he had an appt a few months ago, he was put in with the relief vet(he did not ask to see me). When he found out he wasn't seeing me, he left the clinic in a huff. Then he wanted his records sent to another clinic. So I called, left a message, but never heard from him. From my point of view, we had a 25 year relationship that was canceled because of this??? I did not even know of the scenario until long after the fact.... What I learned is that the public is fickle and we are all only human.


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## vcm5 (Apr 20, 2011)

Thank you Sally's Mom for that useful post! It is hard to remember sometimes with people like vets and doctors and etc that they are in fact human and have off days - they are not trying to cause pain or to belittle you, they just have an off day. I agree that you should talk to someone before simply walking away if you have such a long history with them. After all, our vets don't just drop us because we yell at them when we are stressed over our pet's injury or sickness!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

vcm5 said:


> Thank you Sally's Mom for that useful post! It is hard to remember sometimes with people like vets and doctors and etc that they are in fact human and have off days - they are not trying to cause pain or to belittle you, they just have an off day. I agree that you should talk to someone before simply walking away if you have such a long history with them. After all, our vets don't just drop us because we yell at them when we are stressed over our pet's injury or sickness!


and thank goodness they don't drop us when we have a dog in a life/death situation needing immediate treatment, yet they have a very full schedule of patients or surgery that day.


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## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

There are also many vets (mine included) who provide their services at greatly reduced prices to rescues so that rescued dogs are ready for their new homes - providing heartwor treatment and even doing expensive orthopedic procedures. My vet will also accept strays and treat them while trying to find an owner or get a rescue to take them in to find a new home. Vets do a lot of things that their everyday patients don't normally see or hear about.

My dog's vet will personally call if we have been in for more than a routine exam. I don't think many doctor's for human's would even do that.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Sally's Mom said:


> In my 25 years as a vet, I have dealt with all kinds of animals and people. What I have never understood is that after you have a 20 year relationship with someone, perhaps you had an off day(they are allowed aren't they?) and that client is now done with you.... Wow... my expectation is that the client will address the issue with me, so I can either "fix" the situation or figure out how to make it work for both of us. An example, a client I have known for 25 years was in. First he had cats, then dogs, all were deceased. So when I saw a rescue GSD that looked just liked the last one he lost, I called him up. He adopted her... she was a potential fear biter... so literally every day, he came into the clinic and sat with her in the waiting room. She grew comfortable and I was never afraid she would bite and I never muzzled her. Well, he had an appt a few months ago, he was put in with the relief vet(he did not ask to see me). When he found out he wasn't seeing me, he left the clinic in a huff. Then he wanted his records sent to another clinic. So I called, left a message, but never heard from him. From my point of view, we had a 25 year relationship that was canceled because of this??? I did not even know of the scenario until long after the fact.... What I learned is that the public is fickle and we are all only human.


That's got to hurt too.

I've actually called the clinic owner with concerns when I have them and the concerns are always addressed in kind and compassionate manner. I value that relationship and cannot imagine walking away because I needed to see another clinic veterinarian!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I have written and not posted several replies to this thread.

I truly wish my vet charged what you were charged. My vet charges more. I have 3 dogs and live in TBD central. I also show and train my dogs so they get injured at times in addition to having a senior boy. If I have a problem with any of the vets, I talk to them. My vets follow up on any visits. I have their email addresses for concerns. 

Broken down for the year you paid an average of $25/month. You will need to save about $10 a month for the next 6 months to pay for the next supply of Heart Worm medicine.

So as a guideline it will run you about $30 a month to stay with this vet - is this within your budget? I spend considerably more at the vets, but it is built into my budget. Actually, you should save more to cover unexpected expenses.

Edit: Most vets will write a script that can be filled at Walmart; most of my prescriptions filled this way cost $8, which would reduce your costs.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Vets have cost as well, like everyone else. I dont think the price you paid was bad....And yelling at them is not going to make things better. I ALWAYS look at my bill before I leave and ask questions if I have them. When I call to make an appt I ask for a estimate of what the charges will be. And yesw it can go either way more than the est or less, but at least I have an idea.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I am having health issues... so the nurse calls up and says I need to schedule a biopsy, but when I question her, she has no answers. Most veterinarians pick up the phone and discuss it with their patients...but we( the veterinarian) accept the MD way of dealing with things...


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## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

How are vets supposed to know that you are on a tight budget if you don't tell them. You cannot expect us to make an estimate for EVERY appointment throughout the day just in case someone doesn't ask. That is unreasonable. Like I said before, you should have mentioned something. I think just this one incident isn't a reason to switch vets. Had you even called around to see what other vet clinic's charge? Vets are not out to gouge you for money. Their prices are what they are because of the rising costs of supplies, medications, etc. I think this is blown way out of proportion only because you expected them to hand you an estimate while having mind reading abilities. 
I understand that it is hard times out there, and vets understand that too. They only want what is best for the pet's health.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I would be a happy camper to have the 300.00 bill verses the one I have right now.....


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

I have loved almost every vet that I have had during my adult pet owning life. I had one in particular who was the most wonderful vet ever. I started going to him when he first got out of vet school and opened a practice. I was very poor and was pregnant at the time, but Dr Gintis knew I loved my animals and tried to give them everything I could. I had a big old black cat who got blocked after a couple of previous urinary tract emergencies and I couldn't pay any more. I was broke and I cried in his office as I told him I'd have to have Bear put to sleep. He looked at me and told me he would only charge me what it cost him to make Bear better. He only charged me $35. Now this was almost 25 years ago, but it was still a HUGE cost cut. Other times, he would let me make payments to pay off big bills. I always paid him on time, even when other bills might have been late.

I used him for 17 years until I moved to a place where it was just too far to make it with all the animals I have. The vet I have now makes house calls and she went to school with Dr. Gintis. I really like her, but I do miss Dr. Gintis very much. He was the epitome of a vet who loved animals first and foremost. He came to my house many years ago, after hours, to put my 11 year old dog to sleep. A dog he had cared for since she was a puppy and he cried with us when she passed. What else can you ask for from a vet?

Good love and good care is pretty much priceless to me and I have had the most wonderful vets in my pet owning years.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Okay, forum members, how many of you have told your dog's veterinarian that you appreciate all they do for you? If you have not done so (yet), please think about doing it sometime in the near future. Everyone needs a little validation now and then.  While you are at it, you might want to consider thanking all the nurses, vet techs and office staff too.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Repeat message.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

We just had a client appreciation day which I thought was hokey, but many clients spoke up and told us how much they appreciated us.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Dallas Gold said:


> Okay, forum members, how many of you have told your dog's veterinarian that you appreciate all they do for you? If you have not done so (yet), please think about doing it sometime in the near future. Everyone needs a little validation now and then.  While you are at it, you might want to consider thanking all the nurses, vet techs and office staff too.


I think the fact that I'm a hyper protective dog mom and have every little thing checked out keeps them pretty happy. :bowl: 

There are only two vets at the practice who I can't stand. The one is a very nice girl, but she doesn't know anything. The other one came from their cat practice and really isn't a dog person. And when we were there with our cat who had the cat version of kennel cough. He was getting ready to order xrays and a teeth cleaning (our cat's teeth are shiny white from all the mice and dry kibble he eats, but the vet was just going off of the chart that said the cat never had a teeth cleaning in his life) when we just wanted antibiotics because the cat had an obvious fever. 

If those were our only two options at this practice, I would be going elsewhere. But I like and respect all of the other vets. 

And saying thank you is a given. I have often told my vets and the techs (even if they like the collie better than the golden simply because they never see collies) and the front desk crew (who have to field all my 'I have a weird question' calls) how much I appreciate the fact that I can take my dog to the vet at any time of the day or any time of the week. We switched to this vet when we lost our first golden. We were unable to reach our regular vet that morning, so we called the 24 hour vet (and this was before they were a 24 hour vet) for help. The vet drove out in an ice storm to meet us at the practice. And she was there to support us after putting him to sleep. Even she had tears in her eyes - and I can only imagine that she wasn't having a great morning going out in terrible weather to be there with a big and very distraught family. She's now in semi-retirement, but definitely is one of the reasons why we switched and remained with this clinic through all of the years. Through the ups and downs.


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

Dallas Gold said:


> Okay, forum members, how many of you have told your dog's veterinarian that you appreciate all they do for you? If you have not done so (yet), please think about doing it sometime in the near future. Everyone needs a little validation now and then.  While you are at it, you might want to consider thanking all the nurses, vet techs and office staff too.


Always do, as I do for anyone that serves me whether my vet, co worker, person taking me my drive thru order ect. We must always remember to do this, sometimes it may be the only good word a person hears in the day.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Stretchdrive said:


> Always do, as I do for anyone that serves me whether my vet, co worker, person taking me my drive thru order ect. We must always remember to do this, sometimes it may be the only good word a person hears in the day.


That is so true and particularly so for the workers behind the scenes, like the reception staff, nurses and techs--they sometimes take the brunt of owner's displaced frustration and anger.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

The_Artful_Dodger said:


> I doubt the clinic is going to want to offer a refund to keep a customer who most likely wont want to pay future bills.


I paid in full at the time of service, even though it was well beyond what I expected or budgeted for, and I was extremely dissatisfied with the cost. I'd think that would be the kind of customer they'd want to keep. Honestly, I probably could have walked out and said "I won't pay it." and walked out, or at least caused a ruckus and demanded to speak to a manager or whatever. There are no debtor's prisons in this country, and as far as I know I'd be perfectly within my rights to argue a bill until asked to leave had I wanted to. But I didn't do any of that. I was polite and paid the bill and left.

What I did also do is call the next day and as calmly as possible explained that I didn't think it was right and that I would be switching veterinarians. I even mentioned what they could do to win back my business and provided a telephone number if they wanted to talk to me about it. I fully understand that they probably won't want to do that, and that's fine, but they won't get my business again if that's the case.

Actually, in a sense, though I'm sure they don't like getting that kind of call, I did them a favor from a business perspective. For every person like me who tells them why they're leaving, there are probably a lot of others who just never come back and they don't know why. Now that they have an indication, they consider whether or not they want to adjust their prices or the way they do business to keep those customers in the future. Maybe they'd be willing to and no one ever told them what was up. Probably they won't be willing to, but at least they can now make an informed decision.



Sally's Mom said:


> In my 25 years as a vet, I have dealt with all kinds of animals and people. What I have never understood is that after you have a 20 year relationship with someone, perhaps you had an off day(they are allowed aren't they?) and that client is now done with you.... Wow... my expectation is that the client will address the issue with me, so I can either "fix" the situation or figure out how to make it work for both of us. An example, a client I have known for 25 years was in. First he had cats, then dogs, all were deceased. So when I saw a rescue GSD that looked just liked the last one he lost, I called him up. He adopted her... she was a potential fear biter... so literally every day, he came into the clinic and sat with her in the waiting room. She grew comfortable and I was never afraid she would bite and I never muzzled her. Well, he had an appt a few months ago, he was put in with the relief vet(he did not ask to see me). When he found out he wasn't seeing me, he left the clinic in a huff. Then he wanted his records sent to another clinic. So I called, left a message, but never heard from him. From my point of view, we had a 25 year relationship that was canceled because of this??? I did not even know of the scenario until long after the fact.... What I learned is that the public is fickle and we are all only human.


I understand where you're coming from. In my particular situation, though, I have a one year relationship with this vet. I've spent what for me is a considerable amount of money, and never scheduled an emergency appointment or asked for anything out of the ordinary. I've never cancelled an appointment or anything like that. I've never not paid in full at the time of service. I make a great sacrifice to do all that. That last bill was close to literally being a third of my monthly income.

And, after deciding that I wasn't satisfied with what was going on, I called and left a message telling them why and offering to talk it over and give them a chance to win my business back if they so desire.

I really feel like I should be able to find a vet who I am comfortable on all levels, including financial. If I walk out of there feeling like I got a raw deal and am stewing and literally losing sleep because of my anger about the situation, then I probably need to either get the vet to address the situation to my satisfaction or find a new vet. I don't think it's too much to ask to have a vet who I am happy with, or at least one I feel alright with. 

Everything everywhere in the world probably costs more than the ideal (Let's face it, we all probably wish things were free), but at least when I walk out of my human doctor's office, I don't feel like I'm getting a raw deal-- and I'd like to have at least that level of comfort with my vet also. I'd like to feel good about the situation. And if I don't, what's wrong with exploring other options?



Sunrise said:


> Broken down for the year you paid an average of $25/month. You will need to save about $10 a month for the next 6 months to pay for the next supply of Heart Worm medicine.
> 
> So as a guideline it will run you about $30 a month to stay with this vet - is this within your budget? I spend considerably more at the vets, but it is built into my budget. Actually, you should save more to cover unexpected expenses.


If I were offered the chance of paying $30 a month and having all my visits covered and get billed monthly, I might take that. But that's not what was offered. I was stuck with a nearly $300 bill (Roughly double what I was expecting) and told payment was due at the time of service.

Now, of course, it's always good to save money, and I've been working on getting better with doing a little bit of that. Of course, when something like this happens, all that hard work is completely obliterated. I'll have to transfer all my savings into my checking account just to meet basic needs and start over from scratch next month with no savings left already in a hole. You expect that an emergency might happen and that might be necessary occasionally -- you don't expect a routine vet visit to turn into that over a small bacterial infection.



> Edit: Most vets will write a script that can be filled at Walmart; most of my prescriptions filled this way cost $8, which would reduce your costs.


That may be. I could have been offered that option. I wasn't, though. Sure, it would have been nice if I had thought to ask about it, but I also think it could have been handled better than to have just had these prescriptions prepared and labeled and sort of dropped on the counter without so much as saying "Would you prefer a script or do you want me to fill them here?".

It's also kind of a conflict of interest when you think about. Vets probably do at least make some small amount of money on these prescriptions when they sell them to you directly. That theoretically gives them an incentive to over prescribe. I don't think the vet I saw did that, I'm just saying it's sort of a bad situation in theory. I like the sort of firewall that exists in human medicine between the doctor and the pharmacy where the doctor literally has no possible incentive to prescribe you anything you don't need because you're paying a different place for it. There are actually laws in many states that forbid primary care doctors from running their own x-ray facilities for similar reasons -- they can't just buy a CAT scan machine, they have to refer you out. The thinking is you want a situation where every incentive is to do what's in the patients best interest and save the patient money.


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## Merlins mom (Jun 20, 2007)

Dallas Gold said:


> Okay, forum members, how many of you have told your dog's veterinarian that you appreciate all they do for you? If you have not done so (yet), please think about doing it sometime in the near future. Everyone needs a little validation now and then.  While you are at it, you might want to consider thanking all the nurses, vet techs and office staff too.


I bring Dunkin donuts Munchkins for the vet staff almost every time I go there! They are always so nice and I love them! Love my vet too but for some reason I never thought to bring him anything! LOL! Doh! I am gonna send him a card. Thanks for the reminder DG. 

I've been seeing the same vet since the mid 90's and I really like and trust him. This past spring when Merlin was sick I had to see a different vet and continued with her through out the illness (I liked her too!). When I saw my regular vet again this past Tuesday for vaccine updates he was upset that he didn't know about it and asked me about it. I just figured she would have let my regular vet know what was going on since they are in the same office. To be honest I was kind of hurt that he never called me during those 8-9 days to see how Merlin was. Now I know that he didn't know about it it all.....that made me feel better.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

> *I paid in full at the time of service, even though it was well beyond what I expected or budgeted for, and I was extremely dissatisfied with the cost. I'd think that would be the kind of customer they'd want to keep. Honestly, I probably could have walked out and said "I won't pay it." and walked out, or at least caused a ruckus and demanded to speak to a manager or whatever. There are no debtor's prisons in this country, and as far as I know I'd be perfectly within my rights to argue a bill until I was asked to leave. But I didn't do any of that. I was polite and paid the bill and left.
> *


You realize walking out without paying for services might be considered criminal theft? If the clinic's policy is payment at the time services are rendered then if you walk out they have every right to contact the police and file a criminal complaint against you. 

I truly hope you find a veterinarian that can work with you because your dog's long-term well-being is dependent on your ability to do so.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Merlins mom said:


> I bring Dunkin donuts Munchkins for the vet staff almost every time I go there! They are always so nice and I love them! Love my vet too but for some reason I never thought to bring him anything! LOL! Doh! I am gonna send him a card. Thanks for the reminder DG.
> 
> I've been seeing the same vet since the mid 90's and I really like and trust him. This past spring when Merlin was sick I had to see a different vet and continued with her through out the illness (I liked her too!). When I saw my regular vet again this past Tuesday for vaccine updates he was upset that he didn't know about it and asked me about it. I just figured she would have let my regular vet know what was going on since they are in the same office. To be honest I was kind of hurt that he never called me during those 8-9 days to see how Merlin was. Now I know that he didn't know about it it all.....that made me feel better.


I sent a cookie tower to the reception staff as a thank you after Barkley died. There were too many times I called when they first opened in the a.m. during his final illness telling them we were on our way. They never hesitated and always said come on, and even opened the door for us--never complained at all. I've been in the reception area when a disgruntled owner went postal on the reception staff--totally uncalled for in my opinion. No telling what some people do or say to them on the phone calls that come in.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

You could have looked at the bill, when they told you the total and asked them for a script. They would have taken it right off your bill....


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

Golden 999 said:

"I really feel like I should be able to find a vet who I am comfortable on all levels, including financial. If I walk out of there feeling like I got a raw deal and am stewing and literally losing sleep because of my anger about the situation, then I probably need to either get the vet to address the situation to my satisfaction or find a new vet. I don't think it's too much to ask to have a vet who I am happy with, or at least one I feel alright with. "

There's something else you can do. You can let it go...mentally, emotionally. It is what it is. Continuing to keep yourself worked up over this and losing sleep over this will just land you in your human doctor's office. And that will be a cost you can ill afford after paying the vet.

I'm serious and sympathetic here. You are harming yourself by not letting this go. You don't have to take your dog to the vet for another year, God willing, so that gives you plenty of time to shop around and see if there are less expensive ways to do this. It also gives you time to put a little away each month towards the next annual check up. Even having $120 saved would be a big help. You could aim to have $150 saved and if you don't find any thing less expensive, then at least you will have 1/2 of it saved.

There really isn't much more anyone can tell you that would be new or helpful. Time to let it go and enjoy your healthy Golden!


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Dallas Gold said:


> You realize walking out without paying for services might be considered criminal theft? If the clinic's policy is payment at the time services are rendered then if you walk out they have every right to contact the police and file a criminal complaint against you.


Someone else I discussed the situation with actually felt that a situation like that would be a matter of contract law rather than criminal law. If he's correct, then in such a scenario they could attempt to get a lien against future earnings to pay the bill, or send a debt collector after me, but not actually have me arrested. Of course, he's not a lawyer, I'm not a lawyer, so who knows. It might even vary from state to state. That would be assuming I left any physical stuff like shampoo or whatever on the counter, a service may be different from actual goods in the eyes of the law.

In any event, I did pay the bill, and politely to boot. I took the high road. But I do certainly have every right not to do business with them again if I don't feel satisfied with the situation. I don't have a long-term contract with them or anything. I paid what I owed and that ends my obligation.



> I truly hope you find a veterinarian that can work with you because your dog's long-term well-being is dependent on your ability to do so.


I haven't actually 100% given up on this vet yet. If they were to call me and apologize and offer me some sort of rebate or something, I might give them another chance. I don't expect them to, though, so I'll probably moving on. But don't let it be said that I just figuratively walked away without giving them a chance to rectify my concerns. I told the lady I talked to on the phone and left the message with was that my plan was to switch but that if something could be worked out they were welcome to call and that I might be persuaded to change my mind. That's more than I really had to do in that situation.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Golden999 said:


> It's also kind of a conflict of interest when you think about. Vets probably do at least make some small amount of money on these prescriptions when they sell them to you directly. That theoretically gives them an incentive to over prescribe. I don't think the vet I saw did that, I'm just saying it's sort of a bad situation in theory. *I like the sort of firewall that exists in human medicine between the doctor and the pharmacy where the doctor literally has no possible incentive to prescribe you anything you don't need because you're paying a different place for it. *There are actually laws in many states that forbid primary care doctors from running their own x-ray facilities for similar reasons -- they can't just buy a CAT scan machine, they have to refer you out. The thinking is you want a situation where every incentive is to do what's in the patients best interest and save the patient money.


Have you never seen the pharmaceutical representatives in the doctor's office? They are offering those doctors incentives to prescribe a particular medication for specific conditions. So yes, you may be prescribed a brand new fancy designer drug because of the pharmaceutical incentive program when something very simple would work just as well.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Golden999 said:


> Someone else I discussed the situation with actually felt that a situation like that would be a matter of contract law rather than criminal law. If he's correct, then in such a scenario they could attempt to get a lien against future earnings to pay the bill, or send a debt collector after me, but not actually have me arrested. Of course, he's not a lawyer, I'm not a lawyer, so who knows. It might even vary from state to state. That would be assuming I left any physical stuff like shampoo or whatever on the counter, a service may be different from actual goods in the eyes of the law.
> 
> In any event, I did pay the bill, and politely to boot. I took the high road. But I do certainly have every right not to do business with them again if I don't feel satisfied with the situation. I don't have a long-term contract with them or anything. I paid what I owed and that ends my obligation.
> 
> ...


I wish you luck in finding a suitable veterinary practice to patronize in the future. I have a feeling you are going to have a difficult path.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Dallas Gold said:


> Okay, forum members, how many of you have told your dog's veterinarian that you appreciate all they do for you? If you have not done so (yet), please think about doing it sometime in the near future. Everyone needs a little validation now and then.  While you are at it, you might want to consider thanking all the nurses, vet techs and office staff too.


Oh, rest assured that I do, and frequently. I've sent pizzas to my vets offices. I have sent cards. We've taken fresh caught salmon in to them. I've given them gift certificates. I've sen flowers. I've had them and their staff take my Puppy Kindergarten at no charge. You BET I thank them.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Dallas Gold said:


> I sent a cookie tower to the reception staff as a thank you after Barkley died. There were too many times I called when they first opened in the a.m. during his final illness telling them we were on our way. They never hesitated and always said come on, and even opened the door for us--never complained at all. I've been in the reception area when a disgruntled owner went postal on the reception staff--totally uncalled for in my opinion. No telling what some people do or say to them on the phone calls that come in.


I used to answer phones at a human doctors' office. We got a lot of complaints and threats. Some of them were actually kind of scary. Obviously, the threats we got were uncalled for. The weird thing was, though, that I actually agreed with most of the complaints. There were a lot of company policies that I disagreed with, but I was just the phone answerer, and couldn't effect change. Still, I didn't really blame them, it's not like they could call the doctors personally to complain, we were the only ones they could talk to.



Penny's Mom said:


> Golden 999 said:
> 
> "I really feel like I should be able to find a vet who I am comfortable on all levels, including financial. If I walk out of there feeling like I got a raw deal and am stewing and literally losing sleep because of my anger about the situation, then I probably need to either get the vet to address the situation to my satisfaction or find a new vet. I don't think it's too much to ask to have a vet who I am happy with, or at least one I feel alright with. "
> 
> ...


You're right, of course. I've been having trouble letting things go lately and find myself in these sort of disputes with a lot of different service providers lately. It makes me miserable and sometimes I burn bridges I may need later (i.e. if I cancel something in enough of a huff, it's very awkward to come back later if that business becomes my best option for something in the future). It's better just to move on sometimes.

I think maybe my difficulty now in letting stuff go stems from letting everything go when I was younger and regretting not telling some people how I felt about certain things way back when. Now I seem to be at the other extreme.

Also, it's difficult when you're not at your physical best and you're under extreme financial stress and sort of struggling in life. If I were middle or upper class, I might look at a bill I thought was excessive and be somewhat upset, but eventually I'd just shrug and move on. But a $300 bill to me is like a $10,000 bill to a lot of other people. It really has a tremendous effect on how I'll be living coming up and thus it'll be hard not to think about for a while, because the circumstances will be a constant reminder. But you're right -- I would probably be better off if I could turn the page.

He does seem to scratching less, though he seems to lack some energy and is definitely urinating and eating more. I worry about him a lot. It's almost ridiculous how much I worry about him. In my head he's just a dog, but he's more than that to me in a lot of ways. I feel a sense of responsibility, like a parent would for a child.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Dallas Gold said:


> Have you never seen the pharmaceutical representatives in the doctor's office? They are offering those doctors incentives to prescribe a particular medication for specific conditions. So yes, you may be prescribed a brand new fancy designer drug because of the pharmaceutical incentive program when something very simple would work just as well.


That's a good point. And you are totally correct. I ate a lot of free lunches from pharmaceutical reps -- and I was just a very low rung on the staff totem poll who had no medical training and never handled anything medically related other than scheduling appointments and taking messages. They'd order lunch for the whole staff and have it delivered.

In the old days, the doctors would even get free tickets to major sporting events in sky boxes, free tickets to plays, free dinners for they and their wives to fancy restaurants, etc.. I hear there was a fear of or threat of government regulation, though, and they had to cut down on that. Now it's more like free pens and notepads (From what I hear, anyhow, I'm pretty far removed from it these days).  But it still does create an appearance of conflict of interest. In a public interest sense, I don't think it's a good idea to allow any of it, though I have to admit I didn't mind taking advantage of it when I could. Hopefully that doesn't make me too much of a hypocrite. 



Dallas Gold said:


> I wish you luck in finding a suitable veterinary practice to patronize in the future. I have a feeling you are going to have a difficult path.


Thank you. And, you're right, I do anticipate it being difficult. It gets old having to fight all these battles over what should be small amounts of money, and would be if I had a better income. I'd love to just be able to write a check for $300 or whatever and have it not effect much of anything. If I could do that, I'd probably keep going back to this vet indefinitely, honestly, and would have never complained or started a thread or anything. I might have made off-hand comment to a buddy that prices were getting a little high and that would have been it. I don't have that luxury, though, really.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Golden999 said:


> Someone else I discussed the situation with actually felt that a situation like that would be a matter of contract law rather than criminal law. If he's correct, then in such a scenario they could attempt to get a lien against future earnings to pay the bill, or send a debt collector after me, but not actually have me arrested. Of course, he's not a lawyer, I'm not a lawyer, so who knows. It might even vary from state to state. That would be assuming I left any physical stuff like shampoo or whatever on the counter, a service may be different from actual goods in the eyes of the law.
> 
> In any event, I did pay the bill, and politely to boot. I took the high road. But I do certainly have every right not to do business with them again if I don't feel satisfied with the situation. I don't have a long-term contract with them or anything. I paid what I owed and that ends my obligation.
> 
> ...


 
But, they do not owe you an apology, they've done nothing wrong, their prices are fair, they've cared for your dog properly, and they should not have to work anything out.
Honestly, if this were my practice I would simply say "I am sorry that you feel the bill was unfair, and if you wish to find veterinary care elsewhere, please, let us know where to send Fido's records. We have been happy to care for him. Best of luck to you both". Sometimes losing a client who you will never make happy is better for everyone involved, including the staff and that client. They shouldn't have to adjust their prices for a client simply because she wants to believe that she's been "gouged", when in fact, she has not. It is setting a precedent for anyone who wants to complain to have their fees lowered, and when the price structure is fair and reasonable, and the quality of care is good, that would be unfair to the provider.

You may need to call a lot of vets, ask for their prices for everything, and THEN decide if you wish to give them your business. You may find it very difficult to find a vet who charges what your idea of fair is... and I hope that the price is not going to take priority over the quality of care for your pet.


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## Elisabeth Kazup (Aug 23, 2008)

I know what you mean. I deal with a lot of chronic illness and sometimes it really gets me down. One of the biggest things that bothers me is having diabetes and having to use insulin. When I see everybody eating, like at the ball park on tv, I think it just isn't fair and with just random bad luck I have to have this.

One time when I was working I was having a really bad day with being tempted to eat things I shouldn't. I was feeling sorry for myself because my life was soooo harddddd. I worked in under graduate financial aid. I walked into the hallway and the elevator door opened. There was a young man, quadraplegic moving his wheel chair by puffing air into the control. I felt like 2 cents waiting for change. I'll bet he would have traded places with me in a heart beat. I'll bet he'd think: I can get out of the chair and live an active life and all I have to do is give up sweets and bread? Piece of cake (pardon the pun). So sometimes it helps to keep things in perspective. As bad as it is, we count our blessing because someone has it way worse.

So put your energy into finding a solution for the future rather than ultimatums for the vet. Put your energy into taking care of your wonderful pup. I'm glad he is improving. For all the money, at least the vets pretty much know what they're doing!


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Pointgold said:


> But, they do not owe you an apology, they've done nothing wrong, their prices are fair, they've cared for your dog properly, and they should not have to work anything out.
> Honestly, if this were my practice I would simply say "I am sorry that you feel the bill was unfair, and if you wish to find veterinary care elsewhere, please, let us know where to send Fido's records. We have been happy to care for him. Best of luck to you both". Sometimes losing a client who you will never make happy is better for everyone involved, including the staff and that client. They shouldn't have to adjust their prices for a client simply because she wants to believe that she's been "gouged", when in fact, she has not. It is setting a precedent for anyone who wants to complain to have their fees lowered, and when the price structure is fair and reasonable, and the quality of care is good, that would be unfair to the provider.


If that's how they feel, then that's fine. I just don't want to deal with people like that anymore. If you feel they have the right to look at things in a cool abstract sort of way and cut their ties to patients, then of course you must feel equally strongly that I have the same right as a patient (Well, a stand-in for a patient, anyhow), I'd imagine, right?

In a perfect world, you'd think people in a healing profession would try to make adjustments for people in situations like mine, and just in general try to make sure their prices are pretty reasonable. My human doctor does that. Even rich people don't have to pay him a lot.

I just want a vet that doesn't charge me three or four times as much when my mostly healthy dog visits as my doctor charges for an unhealthy human. And I'd like them to consider, as my doctor does, the potential cost of prescriptions and courses of treatment and talk them over with me and not treat me like an ATM. If people think that's out of line, that's their right, but it's my right to feel like I'm not out of line and go elsewhere if they won't work with me.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Golden999 said:


> If that's how they feel, then that's fine. I just don't want to deal with people like that anymore. If you feel they have the right to look at things in a cool abstract sort of way and cut their ties to patients, then of course you must feel equally strongly that I have the same right as a patient (Well, a stand-in for a patient, anyhow), I'd imagine, right?
> 
> In a perfect world, you'd think people in a healing profession would try to make adjustments for people in situations like mine, and just in general try to make sure their prices are pretty reasonable. My human doctor does that. Even rich people don't have to pay him a lot.
> 
> I just want a vet that doesn't charge me three or four times as much when my mostly healthy dog visits as my doctor charges for an unhealthy human. And I'd like them to consider, as my doctor does, the potential cost of prescriptions and courses of treatment and talk them over with me and not treat me like an ATM. If people think that's out of line, that's their right, but it's my right to feel like I'm not out of line and go elsewhere if they won't work with me.


You cannot compare your physician to your vet. Physicians are compensated in ways that vets never are nor will they ever be. (Pet insurance is beginning to be more utilized, but doesn't cover routine visits like insurance for human medicine.) It's really very different. And I'm sure that your vet would have been more than amenable to discussing treatment and costs with you - but you did not initiate that discusssion. Again, his fees were reasonable as compared to many across the country, and his care of the dog was appropriated. It's really too bad that you feel he treated you "like an ATM machine", I just don't see that, and I bet he'd be shocked to learn that you do. You seem to be viewing this as some sort of class warfare  It's really not rich vs poor. I think your vet's fee structures are very reasonable and that you were charged fairly. Do you want "rich" people to have to pay more so that people in a situation like yours pay less? 

I hope that your dog gets well soon, and that you yourself feel better, as well.


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

These posts are starting to annoy me more and more. Last year, when both my husband AND I were unemployed, we were taking care of THREE DOGS AND A CAT for several months. The one dog was a STRAY. I ended up needing to ask for donations to help fund her spay surgery and to have a large tumor removed and to have her vaccinated. Not proud that I had to ask, but it happened. 

We literally went without so the animals could all still eat decent food. I have no idea how we managed last year... but we did. We didn't expect vets to give us a discount... why should they? 

We're a lot better off this year than we were last year, but we're no where NEAR well off. We live paycheck to paycheck. Praying something bad doesn't happen the last few days before the next paycheck comes... 

Gas prices are high here too. We don't get out to do a lot of things either... too expensive. A trip to the movie theater once a month is considered a treat, and a good month. 

The prices you named were less expensive than the ones here. Not that it even needs to be said, but Michigan's economy is laughable, too. 

Hope you find a vet who is in your price range... whatever that may be? Hope your doggie's skin feels better soon, too.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

> You get kind of frustrated and, say, hey I'll hop in the car and take a little drive and get a sub or visit some relatives or whatever and you just can't do it. And I'm in that situation a lot even when I don't have a $300 vet bill to pay.
> 
> But, hey, I've put almost 1/3rd of my income towards some veterinarian's Caribbean cruise or whatever, so I can feel good about that.


ya know what bugs me about this that I keep coming back to in my brain.... 

here is this person.... complaining for 17 pages of thread now.... about being price gouged and how she has no money and we have all offered suggestions about how to make this more affordable 

BUT 

She is going on the k9 cruise

well I will tell you that I have wanted to go on that cruise for years.... they have some great speakers etc etc etc.... I have always wanted to go... but I haven't.... because I just don't feel like I can justify the expense when I have dogs to care for and have had some pretty high vet bills as many of you know.... 

so honestly I think this thread has become very attention getting and just a tad ridiculous.... but to go on a cruise and then complain about a vet charging a very fair price for their services is just a tad bit over the top in my opinion


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Shalva said:


> ya know what bugs me about this that I keep coming back to in my brain....
> 
> here is this person.... complaining for 14 pages of thread now.... about being price gouged and how she has no money and we have all offered suggestions about how to make this more affordable
> 
> ...


... Nuh uh... 

... Where's that mouth zippy icon again?


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Pointgold said:


> You cannot compare your physician to your vet. Physicians are compensated in ways that vets never are nor will they ever be. (Pet insurance is beginning to be more utilized, but doesn't cover routine visits like insurance for human medicine.) It's really very different. And I'm sure that your vet would have been more than amenable to discussing treatment and costs with you - but you did not initiate that discusssion. Again, his fees were reasonable as compared to many across the country, and his care of the dog was appropriated. It's really too bad that you feel he treated you "like an ATM machine", I just don't see that, and I bet he'd be shocked to learn that you do. You seem to be viewing this as some sort of class warfare  It's really not rich vs poor. I think your vet's fee structures are very reasonable and that you were charged fairly. Do you want "rich" people to have to pay more so that people in a situation like yours pay less?


What I'd prefer is a situation where everyone could pay less, regardless of their financial status. I think there are probably supply chain issues here that are in play to some extent that could be looked at. For example, why are prescription drugs for people so cheap in Latin America and so expensive here? Does it really cost the manufacture anywhere near what they charge when they make one of these shampoos or bottles of pills?

It probably sounds like I don't like rich folks, but that's not really the way I feel (I think it's great that some people can have lots of money and live the good life, I just would like to see the poor be in a little better shape than the poor are today.). If you want a direct answer to your question, then, yes, I might actually favor a system where lower income people have subsidized pet care to some degree. I'm kind of liberal. But that's not the first place I'd go in solving these issues if I could wave a magic wand. The first thing I'd like to do is look at why things are so expensive and figure out ways to make them cheaper for everyone -- from figuring out ways to get price structures publicly listed so that vets have to compete with each other on price, to lowering markups on drugs from the manufacturers, to whatever. I mean one could go with subsidization and it might be better than what we've got, but I think there are better solutions still that would benefit everyone and not just the lower class if implemented properly.



> I hope that your dog gets well soon, and that you yourself feel better, as well.


Thank you.

I don't actually set out intending to be such a lightning rod with these threads. Deep down somewhere, I'm actually a "Can't we all just get along?" type at some level. I just have strong opinions that differ from the norm in a lot of areas, and I tend to get very frustrated sometimes. It's nothing personal, though. I'm sure there are a lot of great folks here.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Wait, cruise? When did the OP say he or she was going on a cruise?

I believe he or she meant that the vet was taking the money to go on a cruise, hypothetically.


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## Golden999 (Jun 29, 2010)

Shalva said:


> ya know what bugs me about this that I keep coming back to in my brain....
> 
> here is this person.... complaining for 17 pages of thread now.... about being price gouged and how she has no money and we have all offered suggestions about how to make this more affordable
> 
> ...


I'm not going on a cruise. You misunderstood, or perhaps I wasn't being clear. I was saying that my paying this expensive bill I can't really afford is probably funding the veterinarian going on a vacation by herself. Of course, I don't know that that's the case, I was just letting off some steam.

Trust me, if I could afford to be going on cruises, I wouldn't be complaining about vet bills.


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## missmarstar (Jul 22, 2007)

Maybe I missed something, but where does the OP say she's going on a cruise??


And OP, I think you need to stop thinking of the vet fees as a comparison to human healthcare fees. Apples to oranges there.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Mssjnnfer said:


> ... Nuh uh...
> 
> ... Where's that mouth zippy icon again?


oh yeah.... I took out the amount cause I thought she said the amount it cost but then when I went back it was not there... and I can't remember how much it really cost but none the less.... 

cruise vs. vet care 

shoot my husband and I are fairly comfortable and I haven't gone on that darned cruise... you can look it up if you google k9 cruise


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

missmarstar said:


> Maybe I missed something, but where does the OP say she's going on a cruise??
> 
> 
> And OP, I think you need to stop thinking of the vet fees as a comparison to human healthcare fees. Apples to oranges there.


its like the third page in


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

misread the quote my mistake

none the less.... I find this to verge on ridiculous... 

to be honest if I were the vet... I wouldn't want your business


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

I replied to that in a round about way, saying that I don't know many vets going on Caribbean cruises. The op had lamented that her vet bill was probably paying for some vet's Caribbean cruise, NOT that she was going on one.


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## Shalva (Jul 16, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> I replied to that in a round about way, saying that I don't know many vets going on Caribbean cruises. The op had lamented that her vet bill was probably paying for some vet's Caribbean cruise, NOT that she was going on one.


yeah I misread ....


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## Mssjnnfer (Aug 9, 2009)

Oh, whew... I just went searching for where the OP said that when I could have just refreshed this thread, LOL. Anywho, to keep this OT...

I wish everything was cheaper, too... but it's not gonna happen.


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## sophiesadiehannah's mom (Feb 11, 2007)

ok in my opinion enough is enough, the poster apparently feels the vet owes her something because her income is low. i hate her whining and have no idea why i continue to read this thread. does she think calling the vets office and saying well i am not coming in anymore really bothered anyone? i don't think so, no one likes problem patients. last year i had over a 3500.00 bill for sophie when she had to have emergency surgery. i would never think of saying oh you saved my dogs life, but charged too much. i worked out a payment plan. GOLDEN999, i am not a rude or uncaring person, BUT GET OVER IT. how many posters does it take to let you know the price was reasonable.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

This is quickly turning into a nasty pile-on. The OP has expressed an unpopular view. Fine. But she hasn't attacked anybody or been unpleasant, and resorting to name-calling and personal attacks helps nobody.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Just a reminder to the OP that the thread can be closed by a Moderator upon the OP's request.

Sterling Archer, really...that's too much.


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

I guess my call for more civil discourse didn't really stick.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I, for one, am offended by the post.


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## Rob's GRs (Feb 25, 2007)

Do to complaints and postings in this thread it is probably best to close this now.


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