# Go-out Q's and an intro



## LittleRedDawg (Oct 5, 2011)

Hi all, been lurking for awhile, joined a few weeks back and figured I'd best introduce myself. I'm a vet student at WSU in Washington, been running in obedience trials with my pup and I have some big plans for him. He's an Aussie and I owned Labs in the past, but my roommate/best friend has a Golden... that counts, right? : Y'all have the most active obedience forum I've found online, really been enjoying reading through the discussions here and hope you don't mind if I drop in from time to time.

So, questions. We acquired our CDX last month, pup handles pretty nice and I'm hoping we'll be ready for Utility when the show season starts again in April. So, we're working on go-outs and kind of figuring things out as we go. At the moment I've got him running to a target out to ~40ft - clear plastic lid on the ground with a piece of hot dog on it - and then he returns. I don't move. He can sit at a distance, haven't incorporated the sit at the end of the go-out but I think that's next. We have hand signals out to ~15ft.

Browsing through some of the recent threads, I'm seeing a couple different ways of teaching the go-out if I understand it right. The throw-a-party-at-the-go-out-spot sounds pretty popular. If I do it that way, I don't need a target then, do I? Is this method what everyone does once the dog understands the go-out part of the exercise?

Y'all have mentioned the clear plastic tubing or using a bumper for a retrieve in order to teach the go-out. How do you make that work- is the dog required to retrieve it if he gets to the go-out place and there's plastic tubing there? My pup's been FF'd so I get a little reluctant to put him in a position where he's given the option to retrieve but I'm not planning to enforce it... does that make sense? How do those of you with FF'd dogs deal with it?

Just giving treats through the fence- I've seen that one mentioned here too. I don't have a piece of ring fencing, at the moment we're just doing go-outs to trees, walls, buildings, etc. Do all of you who compete in Utility have ring gates, or how do those of you without a ring set-up deal with go-outs?

Any words of advice to a first-timer - ie, anything I should be very careful to avoid, or common mistakes trainers make with the go-out? I did see that corrections at the go-out place are definitely taboo. Anything else?

Probably enough questions for now  - TIA!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Hi Tia, welcome! I do go-outs to a stand alone stanchion that I made based on a thread posted previously (thanks Jodie). I am going to make a couple more, again thanks to Jodie. The beauty is you can take it anywhere. I don't recommend the training to the bumper on a chair, I did that with my Novice A dog as she was bumper crazy and would do anything for one. There are so many other, better ways of teaching go-outs.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

My dog is force fetched also. The rule is you retrieve unless I tell you otherwise before you get out there. So if I send him and he doesn't retrieve, he has failed to retrieve and I will correct how I see fit. If I tell him to sit before he gets there, then that command cancels out the first one, just like on a drop on recall when you first call your dog to come and then cancel that command out with the one to drop.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Hi and welcome!
We all do things differently, no one thing works for all dogs.
A few random thoughts...as posted on another thread, I NEVER call a dog to come back to me on go-outs if the jumps are out. I don't want him to think that coming back via any route other than over a jump is ever an option. If you're calling him back to you, I'd not put the jumps out.
We taught to all sorts of objects, including stantions but a variety of things. I wanted the dog to learn that "go out" is an ACTION, not a DESTINATION. We show in a lot of rings where the stantion is not in the middle of the ring, and if your dog is heading for the stantion he's going to be way off to one side or the other. Also show in a lot of rings where there are no ring gates along the back wall, just blank wall. Basically "go out" means run until I tell you to stop running and sit, it doesn't mean look for the nearest stantion.
Things to avoid? Calling your dog back without having him take a jump! 
Allowing him to stop short of the destination by a few feet. IF he does that I would run out and tell him "GET OUT THERE!" like you mean it. Most of the time if they're stopping short they already understand the exercise and are anticipating the sit. 
Allowing him to sit without squarely facing you.
Good luck, let us know how it's going!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> Hi and welcome!
> We all do things differently, no one thing works for all dogs.
> A few random thoughts...as posted on another thread, I NEVER call a dog to come back to me on go-outs if the jumps are out. I don't want him to think that coming back via any route other than over a jump is ever an option. If you're calling him back to you, I'd not put the jumps out.
> We taught to all sorts of objects, including stantions but a variety of things. I wanted the dog to learn that "go out" is an ACTION, not a DESTINATION. We show in a lot of rings where the stantion is not in the middle of the ring, and if your dog is heading for the stantion he's going to be way off to one side or the other. Also show in a lot of rings where there are no ring gates along the back wall, just blank wall. Basically "go out" means run until I tell you to stop running and sit, it doesn't mean look for the nearest stantion.
> ...


Good advice here.
I absolutely 100% would STOP CALLING THE DOG. MAKE HIM SIT AND WALK TO HIM!!!!!!!!!! 
I started with ONE ring gate section, the white PVC from J&J, no stanchions. I trained the dog to run to the middle, not a stanchion or a target, but I carted that one ring gate all over creation when training go outs. In my neck of the woods they use ring gates almost exclusively, they will even put ring gates up against a wall sometimes. However I found when the dog was really proficient on go outs I could cross over to sending to a wall very easily.
I do not use targets for go outs so can't help you there.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

one of the wildest ones we encountered was a full wall of mirrors!!! That really threw off some of the dogs. 
Tito being a "breed ring dog" was used to being stood in front of a mirror, he just ran right to it and stood there posing pretty as you please, rump to me....


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

LOL! I could see Tito doing that. Good proofing idea though.


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## LittleRedDawg (Oct 5, 2011)

Thanks y'all, appreciate the input!



> A few random thoughts...as posted on another thread, I NEVER call a dog to come back to me on go-outs if the jumps are out. I don't want him to think that coming back via any route other than over a jump is ever an option. If you're calling him back to you, I'd not put the jumps out.


'K. That brings up another question though... does it ever become a problem for Open B if the dog thinks that all recalls include a jump? Will my pup distinguish the two exercises on his own?



> Allowing him to stop short of the destination by a few feet. IF he does that I would run out and tell him "GET OUT THERE!" like you mean it.


What kind of response do you want _at that moment_ from the dog? For them to turn and run further out? Or just a better go-out the next time? Or would any response other than <turn and run straight back> mean that he doesn't understand the exercise yet?

Maybe I'm overthinking this... I did run Hunt Tests once upon a time and could handle and do simple blinds. The concept of a go-out doesn't seem that different than starting a blind retrieve. Is it?

Thanks again-


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I've never had my dog go over a jump in Open B during a recall. The picture is totally different. 

The response I want at that moment is for the dog to turn and run the rest of the way to the proper spot. Then he gets praised, heeled back to the starting position and does the go-out again. Hopefully correctly 

The concept of the go-out is very similar to a blind retrieve, yes.




LittleRedDawg said:


> Thanks y'all, appreciate the input!
> 
> 'K. That brings up another question though... does it ever become a problem for Open B if the dog thinks that all recalls include a jump? Will my pup distinguish the two exercises on his own?
> 
> ...


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> I've never had my dog go over a jump in Open B during a recall. The picture is totally different.
> 
> The response I want at that moment is for the dog to turn and run the rest of the way to the proper spot. Then he gets praised, heeled back to the starting position and does the go-out again. Hopefully correctly
> 
> The concept of the go-out is very similar to a blind retrieve, yes.


I've never done the "no -- go all the way" thing if my dog stopped short on the go out. I would go out there and physically put them in the right spot of they stopped short. To me, telling them "ALL THE WAY" or whatever is just a reminder, it's like giving a back cast if the dog popped on a blind. It's not a correction and it's bailing them out. However after that I would do the same as you, praise praise at the go out spot, repeat, moving up the sending point if needed to get the right response the 2nd time.

To me go outs and blinds LOOK very much the same and somewhat have a similar emotional requirement of the dog. Look out and leave me, go straight. However, go outs are SO much more simple. You are going to send the dog to exactly the same place, the same distance away, every single time in the ring. Blinds by definition are novel every time you do them. So to me blinds require a LOT more skills than go outs.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

A good point brought up about dogs confusing jumping and recalls. I don't think it's really an issue in open for dogs to get confused...yes many dogs will take a jump if a recall is set very close to the jump, but I think it's easy enough to get that idea straightened up in their head because it's such a different sight picture than what they see in utility.

Where it could be an issue is versatility class, international class, or at the NOI. You will be doing recalls in these classes in a utility set up quite often. It's actually why I decided not to show Conner in Versatility or International...he wanted to take a jump on the recalls and I didn't feel like trying to teach him otherwise. And NOI, well, Conner's not that kind of golden so I never had to worry about that!

Flip, on the otherhand, I have different plans for, so I'm not going to avoid training something but instead expect him to pay attention to what I'm asking him to do.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Oh I totally agree. The "go-out" is a relatively simple concept to teach, because as you said, it's the same every time. The blinds require a whole different level of skill. 



K9-Design said:


> To me go outs and blinds LOOK very much the same and somewhat have a similar emotional requirement of the dog. Look out and leave me, go straight. However, go outs are SO much more simple. You are going to send the dog to exactly the same place, the same distance away, every single time in the ring. Blinds by definition are novel every time you do them. So to me blinds require a LOT more skills than go outs.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I use the command "jump it" with a hand signal for the directed jumping, and the command "come" with arms at my sides for a recall. 
Tito can figure out the difference 




Loisiana said:


> Where it could be an issue is versatility class, international class, or at the NOI. You will be doing recalls in these classes in a utility set up quite often. It's actually why I decided not to show Conner in Versatility or International...he wanted to take a jump on the recalls and I didn't feel like trying to teach him otherwise. And NOI, well, Conner's not that kind of golden so I never had to worry about that!
> 
> Flip, on the otherhand, I have different plans for, so I'm not going to avoid training something but instead expect him to pay attention to what I'm asking him to do.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

I am going to add my two cents and then I am outta here..lol!
As someone who has shown in Utility a time or two... I know it should be simple right? You line the dog up and ask him to run full out into a baby gate, ropes or better yet, a blank wall and run as fast as you can and only stop when I say.:doh: Oh and let's not forget to be right smack in the middle because if the dog has a wide turn that is 1-3 points for each one..
Then you get the UB pattern that has a direct retreive right before that to glove 1 or 3..which kills more dogs. I can't and won't compare go out's to anything else because it is not the same. 
I train my dog with a clear plastic dowel that I fade and hide after time.
I do not train my dog to jump from any corner.I would sit him before he ever got there. He knows jump from playing in agility and should do it from anywhere and so far I have not had to test that theory :crossfing...LOL! 
Whatever you decide.. have fun at the end of the day because that is what is supposed to be about! Best of luck in the future...
BTW.. I just got our Versatility title last weekend and it was a blast!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> I use the command "jump it" with a hand signal for the directed jumping, and the command "come" with arms at my sides for a recall.
> Tito can figure out the difference


exactly, that's why I don't have a problem with my dog coming back to me on go-outs.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I want to make it as easy as possible for my dog to succeed. Never calling him back (come) between the jumps I think helps him. He always comes back over a jump, with the "jump" command. 
I know others do it differently, I just don't want to take any chances and do anything that might later confuse him when he's under the stress of being in the show ring. It's always black and white, and makes it easy on him to know which decision is right. That way when the little girlie in her cute little bitches britches is winking at him from the corner of the ring, and the people in the adjacent Open ring are applauding the ribbons at the end of their class and he looks up and sees a picture he's seen before, with the jumps on either side, it doesn't take much for his little pea brain to know that he's going to have to take a jump, even if he's only 20% focused on me. 
That's what has worked really well for us, but as I said, I know others do it differently.






Loisiana said:


> exactly, that's why I don't have a problem with my dog coming back to me on go-outs.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

My reluctance to recall on go outs is not so much that the dog should be taking a jump but rather I don't want the dog to be rewarded for coming forward away from the go-out destination. I rarely chain together go outs and jumps while training for this same reason. If the dog gets rewarded for a go out it's going to be AT the go out spot, not somewhere else. It's like releasing your dog from a sit stay and praising him on the other side of the ring, why take away that opportunity to reward the dog for being in the right spot?


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## wakemup (Feb 6, 2011)

It IS a good idea, IMO, to eventually proof a dog on recalls between the high jump and broad jump. I have had Open B judges set the ring up that way more than once. I DO think the dogs are smart enough to listen and do what we tell them at the time, but I also tell my B dogs what exercise we are doing as we set up ("We are going to do go-out" or "Let's do Hurry Drop") or whatever the case may be.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

K9-Design said:


> My reluctance to recall on go outs is not so much that the dog should be taking a jump but rather I don't want the dog to be rewarded for coming forward away from the go-out destination. I rarely chain together go outs and jumps while training for this same reason. If the dog gets rewarded for a go out it's going to be AT the go out spot, not somewhere else. It's like releasing your dog from a sit stay and praising him on the other side of the ring, why take away that opportunity to reward the dog for being in the right spot?


I do agree with what you're saying, that's why I never have my dogs run out, do a touch, and then run back to me. If I'm going to have my dogs do a touch then I am going to either toss a reward to them, go out to give them the reward, or, if they're reward is just going to be praise, then I'll praise them while they are out there (asking for a few touches to keep them out there awhile). If they are doing a retrieve though, I think my dog is being rewarded enough by the action of getting the object in their mouth, coming back is just finishing the retrieve. I never call my dogs back from go outs and give them a treat or toy or whatever when they get back to me. They'll get their reward while they're out there, and then I'll have them come back.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

wakemup said:


> It IS a good idea, IMO, to eventually proof a dog on recalls between the high jump and broad jump. I have had Open B judges set the ring up that way more than once. I DO think the dogs are smart enough to listen and do what we tell them at the time, but I also tell my B dogs what exercise we are doing as we set up ("We are going to do go-out" or "Let's do Hurry Drop") or whatever the case may be.


 
Don't you love those judges who set the DOR up right next to the high jump for the B classes and then move it over for the A class? "A and B classes are judged equally" my foot LOL. BTW, if anyone is ever in that situation and haven't trained for it lately, I find it helps if I look away from the jump.


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## LittleRedDawg (Oct 5, 2011)

Thanks again... the logic makes sense. I had him sit at the end of the go-outs tonight, once he figured out the concept I had to take him all the way to the wall once or twice as he tried anticipating, but after that it seemed to have *clicked.* At least- it did for tonight in that particular location! LOL.

I set up some jumps on the other side of the building for DJ... some days the hand signals make sense to him and other days I swear he doesn't look right or left as he decides to come back to me. :doh: So I also tried setting up dumbbells on both sides of him (like part of a T for teaching a beginning FT/HT dog to handle) and I'm hoping if I play with that for a bit that the signals for directed jumping will be easier. 

Once your dogs have the concept of the go-out, do you practice sending them in open areas (parks, fields, etc) where they're just taking a line and not going to an object (box, wall, gate, etc), or do you always send them "to X object"?

Anney and Tito's owner (sorry, can't remember your name!) - you both have a different ways of responding to a dog that anticipates the sit. How do you _correct _in training? ie, if you were training a dog to run blinds, and you have a CC'd dog, some folks will give an indirect correction like sit-_nick_-sit-back or direct correction like back-_nick_-back or something similar for the dog that tries stopping early. How do you correct the obedience dog who tries to anticipate? If you are sending them to an object you can take them to the object (would you consider that a "correction?") but if you were simply sending them on a line (ie, in a park), how would you respond?

I have an interesting dichotomy... 1) I have a *very* soft dog and 2) I tend to put a lot of mental pressure on my dogs and push them as far as I can each session. Not a big deal with Labs but it can be with this Aussie. For instance... Lijah had his CD at 14 months exactly in a weekend of trials, with 8 weeks of training. We took about 10 months off as I was busy, picked up training again this past August and had our CDX the middle of October at 24 months in two weekends of trials. He's really easy to train but he is *very* soft. On the other hand, once he figures out what I'm after he is very confident with the exercise. I'm not completely opposed to treats but rarely use them (heeling and recall - that's it) but he is *very* praise-motivated. He handles nice with a good working attitude. So... I don't know if that gives y'all some other ideas as to how I could approach teaching the exercise or correcting, but there it is.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

LittleRedDawg said:


> I have an interesting dichotomy... 1) I have a *very* soft dog and 2) I tend to put a lot of mental pressure on my dogs and push them as far as I can each session. Not a big deal with Labs but it can be with this Aussie. For instance... Lijah had his CD at 14 months exactly in a weekend of trials, with 8 weeks of training. We took about 10 months off as I was busy, picked up training again this past August and had our CDX the middle of October at 24 months in two weekends of trials. He's really easy to train but he is *very* soft. On the other hand, once he figures out what I'm after he is very confident with the exercise. I'm not completely opposed to treats but rarely use them (heeling and recall - that's it) but he is *very* praise-motivated. He handles nice with a good working attitude. So... I don't know if that gives y'all some other ideas as to how I could approach teaching the exercise or correcting, but there it is.


Only thing I would say based on this explanation is remember that utility exercises are very different in that the dog is asked to work away from you a lot of the time ... different from open and of course, novice. Important for a dog to be confident in his work, so be careful not to over-do the mental pressure from you ... b/c IMO the work itself is pretty mentally taxing.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

yes, and the other one that frosts me is when the ROF is set up between the 2 jumps, which luckily you don't see very often. I have rotten aim when throwing, and the chances of it going pretty near the high jump are good. 




Loisiana said:


> Don't you love those judges who set the DOR up right next to the high jump for the B classes and then move it over for the A class? "A and B classes are judged equally" my foot LOL. BTW, if anyone is ever in that situation and haven't trained for it lately, I find it helps if I look away from the jump.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

What I would do for now is move over closer to the jump (sideways in the ring, not forward) you expect him to take, so that when he turns to sit he sees you closer to one jump. How much closer you need to go depends on the dog. As he is getting more and more successful, take one "mother may I step" (quote from our trainer, a 3 time NOI winner!) toward the center. Eventually you will be back in the center of the ring and he will understand.
Once he has the concept of go-out, yes, I would practice it in various places. 
As far as correcting, be careful you don't carry field over into obedience because the dogs, at least mine, perceive it totally differently. In obedience, I have a VERY soft dog. He wasn't CC'd or FF'd for obedience (which we did first) and he would melt if he was given a correction that most people would consider mild. Not so in field, where I can blast his butt and he still blows me off, but that's another story for a different day.
But to answer your question, because he is so soft in obedience, all it ever took with him was a verbal correction and "GET BACK THERE" was correction enough. Just realizing he had made a mistake and I wasn't pleased was more than enough pressure/stress for him, so it was the only correction I made for anticipating the sit on a go-out. I always was careful to follow it up with a shortened one and then another regular go-out so he could be successful and we could "party", so he would know he was doing a good job.
Every dog is different, but it sounds like your dog is a lot like Tito in obedience, very sensitive.





LittleRedDawg;1568372
I set up some jumps on the other side of the building for DJ... some days the hand signals make sense to him and other days I swear he doesn't look right or left as he decides to come back to me. :doh: So I also tried setting up dumbbells on both sides of him (like part of a T for teaching a beginning FT/HT dog to handle) and I'm hoping if I play with that for a bit that the signals for directed jumping will be easier.
Once your dogs have the concept of the go-out said:


> correct [/I]in training? ie, if you were training a dog to run blinds, and you have a CC'd dog, some folks will give an indirect correction like sit-_nick_-sit-back or direct correction like back-_nick_-back or something similar for the dog that tries stopping early. How do you correct the obedience dog who tries to anticipate? If you are sending them to an object you can take them to the object (would you consider that a "correction?") but if you were simply sending them on a line (ie, in a park), how would you respond?
> 
> I have an interesting dichotomy... 1) I have a *very* soft dog and 2) I tend to put a lot of mental pressure on my dogs and push them as far as I can each session. Not a big deal with Labs but it can be with this Aussie. For instance... Lijah had his CD at 14 months exactly in a weekend of trials, with 8 weeks of training. We took about 10 months off as I was busy, picked up training again this past August and had our CDX the middle of October at 24 months in two weekends of trials. He's really easy to train but he is *very* soft. On the other hand, once he figures out what I'm after he is very confident with the exercise. I'm not completely opposed to treats but rarely use them (heeling and recall - that's it) but he is *very* praise-motivated. He handles nice with a good working attitude. So... I don't know if that gives y'all some other ideas as to how I could approach teaching the exercise or correcting, but there it is.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

If he's anticipating the sit I would tell him no, go out to him, put my hand in his collar, and run him out to where he's supposed to be. Party when you get there.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Loisiana said:


> If he's anticipating the sit I would tell him no, go out to him, put my hand in his collar, and run him out to where he's supposed to be. Party when you get there.


This is what I do also, I put a hand on their butt too and "usher" them to the right spot. I usually do not treat through the gate if I have to do this (or any other sort of "help" with the go out) but will follow that up with a huge party with food when he does it right the next time.



> *Once your dogs have the concept of the go-out, do you practice sending them in open areas (parks, fields, etc) where they're just taking a line and not going to an object (box, wall, gate, etc), or do you always send them "to X object"?*


*

* No, I always do go outs TO something. You will never do a go out into infinity in the ring and to me that is a whole different skill set akin to running a blind in the field. The problem I see with doing go outs to nothing is if the dog doesn't do it right, how does he know? How do YOU know? It's really ambiguous where the right spot is. If you are using a gate there is always a right way to do it. 

Honestly there's not a lot of correcting I do with go outs, it's mainly going to the dog and physically by means of a hand on the collar and on the butt, putting him in the correct spot. I do a little bit of proofing on go outs to help solidify. There is a LOT of praise. Beyond that I don't know what corrections per se there would be to do. Luckily I've never had a dog who refused to go out or would go a few feet and stop, which is a whole nuther ball of wax than a dog who at least tries and maybe doesn't go the whole way or goes crooked.

BTW I hope no one is treating a pop on a blind with a sit-nick-sit!


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## wakemup (Feb 6, 2011)

Have you tried working just the jumping without the go out, and a barrier between the jumps so he CANNOT come down the middle? I use a ring gate or expen and stand at it with the dog sitting facing me in the middle at the end of the ring. Then throw a cookie back past the jump when they take the right one. OR You can also stand between the jumps with the jumps closer together and direct the dog. As they get better at picking up the signal you spread the jumps out. Both of these methods tend to emlinate the coming back between the jumps.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

wakemup said:


> Have you tried working just the jumping without the go out, and a barrier between the jumps so he CANNOT come down the middle? I use a ring gate or expen and stand at it with the dog sitting facing me in the middle at the end of the ring. .


I was quite upset when my nine month old boy thought jumping the three foot tall ring gates in the center was a better option than going out of his way for the 8 inch jumps on the sides. :doh:

What really helped Flip is to have a favorite toy in the hand giving the jump signal. I leave the signal hand out as he is taking the jump and then he can come take the toy out of my hand instead of coming to front. Make sure you look at the jump you want him to take! This is also the first dog that my arm is only a directional signal, and my verbal is his command to jump. Similar to directed retrieve in that way. When teaching I would hold the arm out and make sure he was looking in that direction, waving my hand around or whatever I needed to do to get that attention where it needed to be, and only then would I give the jump command.

And I too keep go outs and jumping completely seperate for a really long time. Probably close to a year before I'll actually start to combine the two together as one exercise. And even then I will frequently still break it back up into two seperate exercises.


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## LittleRedDawg (Oct 5, 2011)

Thanks again. I haven't tried combining go-outs with DJ and don't imagine I will for a long, long time. (I figured it's in the same category as DOR... I train that one in separate parts and really the only time I put the entire exercise together is when we're in the ring.)

Anney- that makes sense re the go-outs. I suppose if we practice them at least once a day, 5 days a week... we should be ready when the shows start again in April, right? :

Loisiana- what made you decide to train the DJ that way (hand signal is different from the jump command)? Do most Utility folks train it that way? My *next* goal is the UD, but I don't intend to stop there, so I'd like a good foundation on this pup. As Evan Graham puts it, "You can never know how good a dog is whose basics are not thorough..."

I don't have ring gates so can't very easily come up with a barrier between the jumps... I can sure move jumps closer together though. Thanks again for the input y'all.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

LittleRedDawg said:


> Loisiana- what made you decide to train the DJ that way (hand signal is different from the jump command)?


 
Because the person I was taking a private lesson from told me to and she has 5 OTCH dogs. : 

My dog is the type to act without thinking first, and this gives me a chance to force him to think about what direction he will be going in before he is given permission to move. Obviously in the ring I can't just hold my arm out for awhile and then give the command, but I can wait give the command when my arm is all the way in position, instead of him just taking off at the first flick of my wrist.


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## LittleRedDawg (Oct 5, 2011)

I tried that tonight Loisiana.... I think it helped a lot. My pup does tend to be <fast> and goes through a stage of learning where he guesses... thinks he knows the exercise well enough he knows what's coming next! Go-outs were a lot better tonight... we'll get all the exercises down one of these days.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

There's actually a new facebook obedience group (balanced obedience) that has had a similar go out discussion this week. Seems like a great new group, I recommend everyone joining! unless you are the type to chew out a person at the mention of any type of aversive. If that is the case then don't bother because that's the whole reason the group was formed. (that's not really directed at any forum members, just anyone who might be happening to read this thread)


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## LittleRedDawg (Oct 5, 2011)

Request sent- thanks Loisiana. I'm not one of those positive-reinforcement-only trainers, but I'm sure that's obvious since I FF'd Lijah. :


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