# Agility update/need help



## ataylor (Dec 28, 2008)

Jackson has been competing in agility for almost a year now. And he still drop bars. He is not collecting himself enough before the jump and he is just not picking up his back feet. 

There was one trial where he ran into the first bar, but I think I know what might of happened. It just down poured for about 30 minutes and then it was 10-20 minutes after it stopped, Jackson's run was up. I think he slipped on the very wet grass.

Oh...for the very first time in agility, he blew off his weaves. He has never done that. That run would of been a qualifying run!

Plus side, he has been getting his contacts 

I have been told that he barely clears the bars when he in running.

Any advice about the bars?

Here is a recent picture of him going over the double jump which he cleared


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## jimla (Oct 9, 2008)

Our agility trainer set up an interesting jump training exercise at class today. She placed four jumps in a line at different spacings and alternating heights. The trainer held Roxy in a starting line stay and I called her over the jumps from the end of the line. Roxy had to adjust her stride and compensate for the different jump heights. She did great!


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## ataylor (Dec 28, 2008)

I have been doing that exercise a couple of times too. It takes Jackson a while to figure out what to do because he likes to jump over the last two bars gether. After a while he does it correctly.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

There are a lot of theories about jumping out there. Systems by other trainers etc etc etc. 

First of all, do you do 'anything' when Jackson drops bars? For instance say "uh oh" or make him lay down while you reset the bar? I don't know your dog so I don't know if this is an idea, but with our lab Quinn we say either "uh oh" or a medium velocity "no", make her lay down and watch us reset the bar. It stops the play. Makes her think about what happened. In her case I do see her realize and pay attention to her toes. With my big lab Belle, I never acknowledged a dropped bar because she would worry about it too much and start to shut down. She KNEW it was wrong so I did not make any deal about it at all. Just reset and try again. I would not stop my run with her, reset it at the end. 

Jump chutes are helpful but I wonder if take off training would be beneficial. Susan Salo has a DVD set out about agility training and she stresses the importance on the dog knowing 'where' to leave the ground. She works with a LOW jump then 4'-5' a regular height jump, and she varies how she sets this so the dog learns how to plant their feet and jump properly regardless of the situation. Might be worth renting from the dog video site. Sorry I forget the name if I find it I will get back on here and let you know. 

Also, I would worry too much about your dog 'skimming' the jumps. Yes something is lacking and needs some training so the bars do not come down but the more time a dog is in the air, the slower the run time. 

Another exercise we do is place the dog close to the jump in a sit, maybe 3' away from the bar (I see you jump 24" so make it reasonable) you walk on the other side, stand about 5' from the bar, call him over. The dog is to jump, and then sit in front of you. It teaches the dog to push off their back end (not front end) and then organize their body again for the sit. You want the dog to learn to collect their body up and get their hind end UNDERNEATH them. That is proper jumping style. Does Jackson jump off his front or back end? That might be the first step in sorting this out. 

When doing jump chutes, do you work collection and extension? That is always something a dog needs to work on. 

Sorry my thread is disorganized. Thinking as I type. Without watching the dog, one can't make suggestions too easily. 

Sure others will pipe in here.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Very helpful response Ann. The site you are referring to is BowWowFlix.com


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

DNL2448 said:


> Very helpful response Ann. The site you are referring to is BowWowFlix.com


Thank You Laura!!!! I knew you had told me about it.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Ann had a great post!

Jump grids would be my first thought. If you dog is doing jump grids and taking jumps two at a time, the jumps are set too low and/or too close together. You need to adjust them to teach him where to take off. Changes the distances so he needs to take one stride, two strides or bounce. This will give him a feel for where he needs to take off with different distances. Personally, when I do jump grids I do them all at the dogs regular height.

As far as taking down the first jump, slipping is always something to think about, but I am frequently surprised in agility when people don't know how many strides the dog likes before the first jump... How many strides does your dogs like to take? You learn by watching, in practice, in video, etc etc... For example Barley needs space to take at least 2 strides before a jump. If I cramp his space he will correct, but you can tell he starts awkward... Mira on the other hand likes to set and jump. I usually set her pretty close to the first jump. Of course she has less momentum, but she likes to start that way. Try and pay attention to where you setup and how it affects your start and your run!

The next subject Ann also touched on was working collection and extension and switching between the two. You can do this while working jump grids. Sometimes drive through the grid, other times ask them to wrap and head the other way. Vary where you do this.

Well, that is it off the top of my head... Hopefully it all makes sense! Good luck!

Congrats on your contacts! Those are one of the hardest things to maintain!


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## ataylor (Dec 28, 2008)

Thanks for all the help.

Ann...
When he does drop a bar, I do stop and put him in a down so I can put the jump up. he tends to jump with his front feet.

For the jumping grids, I usually set them 4' apart and start them very low. Then I gradually increase the height. I even set them at different heights. As for how far he has to start, I start him around 3' away from the jump. I am still figuring up if having him in a sit or standing when she starts is better for them.


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## ataylor (Dec 28, 2008)

I was just in my first AKC FAST trial. I had a blast! Jackson did qualify both days with the scores of 53 (4th place) and 63 (1st place). I think Jackson liked it too.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Yeah Jackson! What's a Fast trial like?


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

DNL2448 said:


> Yeah Jackson! What's a Fast trial like?


FAST (Fifteen and Sent Time) is one of the classes in AKC. So you have Standard, Jumpers with Weaves, FAST and the newest class Time to Beat.

In FAST you get to run your own course and all the obstacles are assigned a point value. You need to earn X number of points and also complete a "send bonus" which is a few obstacles where you have to stay on the other side of a line, so there is a distance component.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

Oh, that sounds exciting!


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## ataylor (Dec 28, 2008)

I did a little bit jumping practice with Jackson today. I set up three jumps in a row and started them at 16". Then I slowly increased the height. We finally got to his jump height, 24". And guess what?!?!?!?! He cleared all three of the bars  We had a big party after that. We tried it again a couple of times. He dropped a bar a couple of times, but we put it back up and tried again. And he cleared it again.

So today we ended on a good note on jumping


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Just curious, why do you start with 16", what is your regular jump height?


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Sorry, just re-read that.... If his regular jump height is 24", there is no way I would be doing jump grids at 16"

I have not watched the videos, so maybe I am missing something... but I personally don't think he will learn anything at 16"

If I was you, I would be doing all my grids starting and staying at 24".... if anything, I would bring them up to 26"


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## ataylor (Dec 28, 2008)

I think I just did 16" once in the beginning, just so he got the idea on what he was suppose to do. But after that, I had the heights I think 22" and 24", I didn't bring them down after that. I was thinking of trying 26", but I didn't do that today. I might try it sometime.


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## ataylor (Dec 28, 2008)

I do remember that when I first was taught to do the grids by my agility instructor, she had them I think 16" or 20" or maybe a little lower. Just to get Jackson use to the idea on what he has to do.


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## ataylor (Dec 28, 2008)

I was told to try the jumps at different heights, so I did that too. But all in all, we ended the night great. The jumps were about 98% of the time at his jump height.


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

I am all for different heights. I do that on courses sometimes too, however I don't go too low. For instance our dogs jump 20" so I might have a couple at 16" but then if we have a hard turn where I think a bar might drop I would put it at 24". Jumping too often too low can make them lazy and drop bars more. 

I was practicing Quinn at 24" on the sit jump sit exercise... she figured out she could go underneath (she is only 21") LOL So I put up another bar. 

Another exercise, is place a bar on the ground about 3 feet away from the jump so the dog has to step over it and then jump. This will help him shift to his back end, and pay more attention to the jumps. We did a lot like that with horses to sharpen them up.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Sounds like it was a good productive training session!

When I do jump grids, or actually any training for that matter, I always keep the all bars at the regular jump height.


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## hawtee (Nov 1, 2006)

I guess I am one of the few lol, who do 12-22 " jump/bounce drills. I start low to let them know what I ask then start raising it so that they will use their body and think more


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## ataylor (Dec 28, 2008)

hawtee said:


> I guess I am one of the few lol, who do 12-22 " jump/bounce drills. I start low to let them know what I ask then start raising it so that they will use their body and think more


That is what I was doing yesterday, but I went from 16"-24".


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

My Faelan will also drop bars. I am currently doing jump grids, jump circles and 2 jumps set together to form a wide double. He ran yesterday with no dropped bars in STD, awesome contacts and weaves; he is revving way up, so I am just in from a session with the double jumps set in a pin wheel on a slope and a brand new tug toy that he has been eying for a reward to rev him up more; we went toy shopping after he enjoyed a massage LOL. The upper bars in the pinwheel were set 20 to 24 inches and his toy was thrown along the arc to start re-enforcing his head being down when landing.

The Susan Salo DVDs do use very low heights for some exercises. I will be rewatching my DVDs (yet) again as I prepare to start a more structured jump program and I have started marking dropped bars with no or wrong. Now that I know both he and Towhee stress up, time for more structured training has come 

The picture below shows one of my doubled jumps - I do have actual double and triple jumps but this setup helps encourage the arc I am looking for while toys will help him focus less on me (another common cause for dropped bars)


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## ataylor (Dec 28, 2008)

I did some grids yesterday with Jackson and kept the jumps at 24" the whole time. We practice for about 10 minutes and guess what?!?!?!?! He only dropped the bars a couple of times. He did such a great job. It seems that he has been improving. But we won't know until this Saturday when we actually run in a trial.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

That is fantastic news!! Keep it up!


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