# Rough play, or being mean?



## zephyr (Sep 29, 2009)

I'm not sure how to deal with Oscar when he gets into an obnoxious play mode with a couple of other dogs. It's happened twice now and it has been bugging me:

With these 2 dogs, he ran over and starts to wrestle, and then when he ended up on top he did not let them up, and made lots of growly noises right in their faces. (He was not biting or even making bitey-face, though). It's really the noises that seemed so scary to me -- he just SOUNDED so mean, even without any biting. In combination with the relentless attention, and how he didn't let them up, it was unsettling for me! I THINK he is just trying to get them to wrestle harder with them, but when they don't want to, he just tries harder...? 

The 2 dogs were a month or two younger & male. One about the same size, and the other about half his size. (We see dozens of dogs every time we go to the park -- why these two?) They didn't seem at all afraid or upset by his behavior, and just stayed down. But I said "OSCAR, NO, TOO ROUGH" and tried to call him off. When he just gave me a quick look but wouldn't knock it off, I had to pull him off! I really don't like that. Is this just really excited rough play that the other dogs don't really want, or something else? He was hopping around and tail-wagging and generally seeming very excited to play with them, but I feel like his "play" was a bit obnoxious and rude... 

I guess I am uneasy about this because there were a couple of incidents with one GR (about a week older than Oscar) when he was younger who relentlessly got on top of him and was very vocal, growling and snapping. He really just seemed to hate Oscar. Oscar was totally fine and wanted to interact more with him, but I always just moved us away because it was kind of scary. :uhoh:

How should I communicate that he needs to either knock it off or play nicer? I don't want to have to physically pull him off, but if he won't listen when I call him off... Am I being too sensitive? I know in many situations the dogs should just be allowed to "work it out", but I don't want to be ignoring some huge warning signal... plus I wouldn't want another owner to think my dog is being mean to their dog! :no: Ugh.


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

These are great questions and I often wonder if we're handling it properly when Hank and his brother get together for playdates. 

They are a little older than your Oscar (born 7/6/09) and both intact. Sometimes they play pretty rough, or so it seems. There has never been any blood drawn or injury, they are evenly matched in size, so we tend to let them work it out other than an occasional "knock it off". 

Our daughter/fiance have Hank's brother so I don't have to worry about a stranger thinking Hank is being aggressive to their dog but yes, it does sound scary at times.
I wish I knew what all the sounds and body language meant.


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## FlyingQuizini (Oct 24, 2006)

If it's making you unfomfortable and you can't easily re-direct his attention to another version of the game, then I think your instincts are probably correct and he's beng a bit of a bully. If it were me, I'd attempt to redirect him (even if it means I have to step in and separate in order to redirect in the beginning) and if he simply won't redirect, he needs a brief cooling off period where you suspend the play for 5-10 mins. Not like he's in trouble - you're just letting him cool his jets so that when you resume play, clearer heads and a calmer play style prevail.

I would also watch and get a sense for WHEN it escalates to this point. If, for instance, you notice that he gets all pin-down-the-other-guy after 10 mins of hard play, then at the 7 min mark, step in and engage each dog in some brain work with sits, down, tricks, etc. Sometimes young dogs get over-stimulated and start to play too rough and we can mitigate it by helping them learn to not escalate to that level in the first place by not letting them practice.


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## max935 (Jul 28, 2009)

I can also relate to these questions. Jesse tends to get overly rough/stand over dogs that are smaller than her. She's


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## Tanyac (Jun 18, 2008)

FlyingQuizini said:


> If it's making you unfomfortable and you can't easily re-direct his attention to another version of the game, then I think your instincts are probably correct and he's beng a bit of a bully. If it were me, I'd attempt to redirect him (even if it means I have to step in and separate in order to redirect in the beginning) and if he simply won't redirect, he needs a brief cooling off period where you suspend the play for 5-10 mins. Not like he's in trouble - you're just letting him cool his jets so that when you resume play, clearer heads and a calmer play style prevail.
> 
> I would also watch and get a sense for WHEN it escalates to this point. If, for instance, you notice that he gets all pin-down-the-other-guy after 10 mins of hard play, then at the 7 min mark, step in and engage each dog in some brain work with sits, down, tricks, etc. Sometimes young dogs get over-stimulated and start to play too rough and we can mitigate it by helping them learn to not escalate to that level in the first place by not letting them practice.


I absolutley 100% agree with everything you said!!!

If my two start getting a little over the top, I will grab whoever is on the top, pull them away and say "enough!" then let them on their way. This always seems to work and they just carry on normally. 

With young dogs, I always think it's advisable to break up play the minute you percieve it is becoming too excitable.


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## max935 (Jul 28, 2009)

Shouldn't have pressed enter without finishing message......

What I was going to say is, I understand where you are coming from and I also find it difficult to know when to step in. Especially if the other dog doesn't seem bothered by it. Or sometimes the dog seems bothered to me, while the owner is saying that they are having a great time (are they just oblivious to their dog's signs that they are uncomfortable?!? or might they be right given that they know their dog much better than I do?!?

I will be following other responses with interest....


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Two more things to think about...if it tends to happen with certain dogs, you can leave when they arrive, or try to plan your trips so that you don't meet up.

You can also find many great photo and video guides to dog body language on dogwise.com For dog park goers...I say it's a necessity to have at least two of these resources!


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## zephyr (Sep 29, 2009)

Thanks for all the suggestions guys! :

I like the idea of a cool-down time if he's getting too nutso, so he can't "practice" his obnoxious behavior -- and I will feel more confident knowing that it is okay to "step in" and tell him to knock it off if *I* am feeling like he is being a bully, an obnoxious pest, or it is getting too "excitable".

He isn't neutered yet, so maybe that does have something to do with it too. I am always feeling very cautious at the park now, around the other dogs... but, he's never even TRIED to hump another dog (let alone a female) and they aren't _supposed_ to bring any females in heat to the park (but... you know how silly people are sometimes! :doh We want to wait until at least a year old to get him fixed, but I am certainly willing to do it sooner IF there are behavioral issues -- because we don't have a yard and we need to be able to visit the dog park for exercise! And I would really like to not have to go at 6am when no one else is there :doh:

The first time was with a ~7 month old lab. Almost as soon as they started wrestling, Oscar had him on the ground and wouldn't let him up and was doing the growly thing. The owners and the dog didn't seem that bothered by it, but *I* definitely was because that dog was definitely big enough to "hold his own". However, once I pulled Oscar off and got him distracted chasing his frisbee, both dogs actually started retrieving the frisbee and taking turns playing keep-away with each other. They even play-wrestled later on "normally" (where they both ended up "on top" at some point). SO I guess the initial "knock it off" worked there! It was really just the initial interaction that startled us (what happened to our submissive little puppy?!)

The second time it was at a different park than we usually go to, and the puppy was much smaller (I think he said 4-5 months). Oscar had been pretty much ignoring another young female and an older dog to chase his frisbee... but when that smaller puppy came over he immediately wanted to wrestle, and wouldn't let him up and was growling. I pulled him off, and tried to call him away, and we started walking in a different direction... but Oscar ran all the way back over and was licking his face and trying to jump on him again, so I ran back over and called him back again, and we left that area. That owner did not say anything at all, so I'm not sure if he just didn't care that my dog was all over his dog... but I sure did, because Oscar was really being a PEST!

I will definitely check out this dogwise.com! I hope it is that Oscar is just being too crazy-excited and just needs to be redirected/checked when he's getting too wound up. But there is definitely a lot I don't understand about dog language!


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I agree with steph (flying quizini) and would add even if the other person says "thats ok they are just playing". Tell them "your puppy is getting overstimulated or you want him to take a break to settle down". Some people dont find anything wrong with other peoples dogs wrestling like maniacs but there are just too many unknowns if you are not really good freinds or family members.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

I break up Ranger and Blue when they're getting too rough with their wrestling but since Blue is my brother's dog we let them play past the point where I would if it was a stranger's dog. It's not mean wrestling but it's rough - body slams, neck grabbing, chest bumping, all with a frenzy. When I start getting uncomfortable, I redirect by calling Ranger to me and throwing a toy. Then it's more of a chase game for awhile.

Only once did I ever see it escalate to "meanness" and that was when Blue did something (no idea what) and Ranger got up from the ground and it went from play biting to real snapping. Blue realized as soon as Ranger got up that play time was done and he froze like a statue while Ranger snapped at him. Ranger wandered off, Blue found a toy and within 20 seconds they were playing like maniacs again.

I don't let Ranger wrestle with dogs he doesn't know and he seems to be figuring that out. At the off leash park he plays by chasing dogs and there's no wrestling, even if Blue's there. There was one time when he took out a boxer and was standing over her but it was NOT play. No growling, no biting but it was obvious from his stance that he wasn't playing around. He got called off and the poor boxer was so terrified she ran away from her person and wouldn't come back. I think the only reason I was able to call him off was because of doing it at home when I'd redirect him. 

I agree with everyone else - if it makes you uncomfortable, redirect the energy.


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