# Pro Plan Sport - If its so bad why are the results so good?



## Rob S. (Feb 2, 2014)

See the title....


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Because Purina has the money to dump into research.
That's a good thing.


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## Rob S. (Feb 2, 2014)

BTW, the title was tongue in cheek....so many dog food nazi enemies but seems the smartest and most experienced professionals use it.


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## BaileyzMom (Nov 26, 2015)

I have been wondering about this.... when you look at sites like Dog Food Advisor, Purina Pro Plan gets lower ratings, but so many professionals are feeding it. Then if you think about it, years ago, there wasn't "fancy" dog food... all of these grain free options and what not (NOT knocking those by the way, just saying...). My husband grew up with a dog that ate Old Roy and Purina Dog Chow that never had a health problem and lived to a ripe old age. 

We fed our Rottie Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul and had really good results with it for the same basic price as Pro Plan, but I am really torn on what to feed the new puppy when she comes home. She will come home on LBP from Pro Plan, and I will continue that at first, of course, until she is a few months old and starting to settle in before changing, if I should even change....


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

twixiecup said:


> She will come home on LBP from Pro Plan, and I will continue that at first, of course, until she is a few months old and starting to settle in before changing, if I should even change....


If she does well on it, don't change it. I've always been a believer of "don't fix what's not broken"


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## Rob S. (Feb 2, 2014)

I will tell you a true story. My mother's 12 year old Cavalier was showing signs of dementia and pooping all over the house.

Her vet put the dog on Bright Mind and 3 weeks later the dog stopped pooping in the house and seems much happier and focused.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

My first dog was on Eukanuba LBP and then LB Adult, Retriever formula, and Senior for the first 10 years of her life. She did great on it. Then I got sucked into the specialty food thing by my boyfriend at the time. I switched her to Acana. She never looked as good and she somehow just was never as healthy. Now, she was 10, so it's impossible to say it was the food, and not simply the fact that she was getting older. But I have always wondered.

After her death, and as I was preparing for my new puppy, I did a total 180 on dog food. I say I'm old school. Purina and Eukanuba have been making dog food for decades. They have done tons of research and testing. Dogs have been doing well on their foods for decades. 

Then, humans started not eating carbs. It was all the rage. And suddenly, there were dog foods that were grain-free. Higher protein. Made of ingredients that we would eat ourselves. _But maybe our dogs don't NEED to eat what we would eat._ I chose to go back to Purina for Shala. Part of it wasn't my choice: she needed to be put on a prescription food when she was very young - but holy, Purina Gastroenteric EN food was a LIFESAVER. It did exactly what my vet said it would. So when we were taking her off that, I chose a Purina food that had similar ingredients - which was Pro Plan. She was on Large Breed Puppy with great results. She now gets Sport 30/20 during the heavy swimming/field training/hunt test months of the year, and Adult Chicken and Rice the rest of the year. She is a lean, mean, athletic machine with great fur and bright eyes. And I find it interesting that the vast majority of people I train with and meet at hunt tests also feed Pro Plan (often Sport, but also the regular Adult). 

I don't tell people what they should feed. I'm a big believer in the best food for your dog is the one that works best for your dog. But that's my story.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Rob S. said:


> BTW, the title was tongue in cheek....so many dog food nazi enemies but seems the smartest and most experienced professionals use it.


That's because breeders, competitors and trainers don't base their decisions on some obscure authors personal opinions on feeding when they have no credentials in animal nutrition to back it up. Breeders Competitors and Trainers base their decisions upon the results they see in their own dogs and the dogs of others. They are of the "Put up or Shut up" mind set. Don't talk about it, DO IT. Show me large numbers of actual dogs that are fed a product so I can see the results it delivers. If you're trying to tell them your product is better, you're going to have to actually demonstrate it to be true in a substantial number of real live breathing dogs. 

Results produced are what matters.


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## MyGoldens6 (Nov 24, 2015)

My goldens were on Earthborn grain free for about 2 years. They looked like hell. Dry hair gaining weight. I'm on Fromm adult now but would never hesitate to go back to PP. I also fell for the grain free fad years back. I fed PP sensitive skin as well they did wonderful on it. Who knows maybe I will just switch back to it as much as I like the ingredients in Fromm much better than PP. I honestly don't see much of a difference in my dogs.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

One thing I have found, whether it is coincidence or not, is my dogs from backyard breeders just never handled grains well. It did not matter the brand, kibble with grains always resulted in goopey infected ears, itchy red feet, etc, whereas grain free kibble eliminated that. My two dogs from good breeders it didn't seem to matter what kind of kibble I fed, they were generally healthy without the infected ears or anything no matter what kibble I fed.

But my dogs never do as well on kibble as they do on raw. I constantly try, because I'll admit I am lazy, but I always end up regretting it and going back to raw. While my dogs can be "healthy" on certain kibbles, I can still always tell the little signs of the difference when they are on raw.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Loisiana said:


> One thing I have found, whether it is coincidence or not, is my dogs from backyard breeders just never handled grains well. It did not matter the brand, kibble with grains always resulted in goopey infected ears, itchy red feet, etc, whereas grain free kibble eliminated that. My two dogs from good breeders it didn't seem to matter what kind of kibble I fed, they were generally healthy without the infected ears or anything no matter what kibble I fed.
> 
> But my dogs never do as well on kibble as they do on raw. I constantly try, because I'll admit I am lazy, but I always end up regretting it and going back to raw. While my dogs can be "healthy" on certain kibbles, I can still always tell the little signs of the difference when they are on raw.


Poorly bred dogs aren't the fault of the food. They aren't normal, healthy dogs to begin with. If you're feeding a special needs dog, you're dealing with issues unique to your dog. However, owners of normal, healthy dogs don't have those issues to deal with. 

Just because a food works for a dog with special needs, doesn't make it a superior product for all dogs.


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

I completely avoid dog food with any byproducts. There is too much trash going in to byproducts that I just don't want to feed my dogs any longer. We went grain free years ago for allergies, and even though that dog died I have stuck with it. Now I home cook half, and the rest is Fromm kibble. I have heard so many golden breeders using fromm and am very happy with it.

However for one of our cats that has intestinal problems, royal canin gastrointestinal keeps her alive (by pooping) and I don't care what in it. It is magic for her problem!


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## Rob S. (Feb 2, 2014)

lhowemt said:


> I completely avoid dog food with any byproducts. There is too much trash going in to byproducts that I just don't want to feed my dogs any longer. We went grain free years ago for allergies, and even though that dog died I have stuck with it. Now I home cook half, and the rest is Fromm kibble. I have heard so many golden breeders using fromm and am very happy with it.
> 
> However for one of our cats that has intestinal problems, royal canin gastrointestinal keeps her alive (by pooping) and I don't care what in it. It is magic for her problem!



That is because you don't know what "by-products" actually are. Did you know that with mammal ingredients there is no separate definition. Venison and Venison Meal are actually all by-products, same for pork, beef, lamb, etc.

If you put down a bowl of chicken by-products and chicken meat, your dog would eat the by-products first. Also, what are by-products here in the US is dinner somewhere else in the world.

Have you ever traveled to the South?


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

Rob S. said:


> That is because you don't know what "by-products" actually are. Did you know that with mammal ingredients there is no separate definition. Venison and Venison Meal are actually all by-products, same for pork, beef, lamb, etc.
> 
> If you put down a bowl of chicken by-products and chicken meat, your dog would eat the by-products first. Also, what are by-products here in the US is dinner somewhere else in the world.
> 
> Have you ever traveled to the h?


My point exactly. The quality of the protein goes down from meat, meal, to byproduct.

Hey DDT is great in South america, and leaded gas is used in Africa! What good for them is good for us? Not for me or my pups.


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## Rob S. (Feb 2, 2014)

lhowemt said:


> My point exactly. The quality of the protein goes down from meat, meal, to byproduct.
> 
> Hey DDT is great in South america, and leaded gas is used in Africa! What good for them is good for us? Not for me or my pups.



Sorry, you are 100% incorrect about the quality of protein.

Did you take biology in high school or college? Is there any part of the chicken that you wouldn't feed, except the feathers of course but they aren't allowed in chicken by-product meal.

I think you are just misinformed. By-products that go into dog food are skin, feet, organs, meat that cannot be stripped off the carcass and bones. Muscle meat is actually a very poor ingredient.

You are the poster child for pet food marketing, sadly


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Rob S. said:


> If you put down a bowl of chicken by-products and chicken meat, your dog would eat the by-products first.


Not mine. I don't have a problem feeding my dogs "by-products," but I have to freeze it in order for one of my dogs to eat it so he thinks he's just chowing down on frozen meat. Otherwise he'll spit it out.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Swampcollie said:


> Poorly bred dogs aren't the fault of the food. They aren't normal, healthy dogs to begin with. If you're feeding a special needs dog, you're dealing with issues unique to your dog. However, owners of normal, healthy dogs don't have those issues to deal with.
> 
> Just because a food works for a dog with special needs, doesn't make it a superior product for all dogs.


And that's pretty much exactly what I said....my dogs from backyard breeders can't do kibble with grains. My dogs from good breeding do well on any kind of kibble. 

But regardless of breeding, I always like the results even better on raw than any kibble.


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

Rob S. said:


> Sorry, you are 100% incorrect about the quality of protein.
> 
> Did you take biology in high school or college? Is there any part of the chicken that you wouldn't feed, except the feathers of course but they aren't allowed in chicken by-product meal.
> 
> ...


Whatever. You seem to be looking for a fight, and not having a polite and intelligent discussion. There are plenty of other Internet groups where I can go have people be snarky, this is not why I come here. Over and out!


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## JDandBigAm (Aug 25, 2008)

I haven't been able to go the raw route but I do home cook for my two goldens and include grains (rice) in most of their meals. I have a holistic vet for my dogs and she says that all of this grain free kibble hoopla is a bunch of hype. Like Loisiana, my vet prefers raw but I'm just not there yet My jaw dropped the other day when I saw how much a bag of dog food cost. I think the ingredients used in my home cooked recipes cost less per month than a bag of dog food.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I feed raw and love that I can keep my dogs slim & trim, while well nourished with soft gleaming coats and abundant energy  

They do eat kibble a time or 2 a week so they can digest it when away from home. And I will say it is much, much easier to feed my girl the calories she needs while nursing using Purina Pro Plan or Fromm's than it would be feeding raw, but a balanced raw diet has unique qualities - as Loisiana mentioned, while the differences may be subtle they are definitely there with raw versus kibble fed otherwise healthy dogs who are fed correctly and enough.

That said, Purina Pro Plan and Fromm are my choices when kibble is used since they seem to be the highest quality, least recalled, brands.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Rob S. said:


> Sorry, you are 100% incorrect about the quality of protein.
> 
> Did you take biology in high school or college? Is there any part of the chicken that you wouldn't feed, except the feathers of course but they aren't allowed in chicken by-product meal.
> 
> ...


That's really the issue, pet food marketing!

There is nothing wrong with by-products or by-product meal so long as the type is specified. The marketing folks try to make people view their pet food as something that is actually going on their table. People just get squeamish when they think of chicken innards on their plates. 

Chicken by-product meal is a very good source of protein for dogs. Check the veterinary teaching textbooks and you'll find this to be true. You can also see it's true if you actually look at the dogs that eat it every day over the long term. If it was an inferior ingredient, those dogs would look like crap but in fact they look pretty darn good. As the saying goes the proof is in the results delivered.


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

~~~~~~~~~~~


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

People pay big money to buy by products: bullie sticks, cow tracheas, cow hooves, etc. We had a representative from Purina come and give a talk at our hospital. Purina happens to be one of the dog food companies that actually does the testing on their food. Not only did he explain reading ingredients, but when meat is one of the first ingredients listed, it is deceptive in terms of how much percentage wise it figures into the food. Muscle has tons of water in it, so it affects how much of it there really is in dog food. I for one, think grain free food is over rated in terms of allergies diagnosed by pet store sales people. I had a rescue beagle that lived to be 17 on Purina dog chow and eventually Hills K/d. My current dogs eat Wellness which I have fed for 16 years. When I started feeding Wellness, there was no LB. One day, I thought I might feed LB, but there were less calories, so I would have to feed more and spend more money. Decided not to do that. Personally, I think people should feed their dogs whatever seems to work for them. Not sure if I think one food is better than another when you are feeding good name brands. However, generic dog foods are another story.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I think that whenever you have somebody touting a dog food whatever it may be and carrying on about all kinds of stuff about dog food, making it their main focus all the time... I want to see pictures of their dogs who eat the food they choose to feed them. Because bottom line, dogs are the proof whether something works or not. You can see it in their coats, skin, energy level, and health. 

And interesting thing to note there is that dogs from good lines usually have good coat, skin, energy, and health while they are young. Long term effects of diet and care (and healthy) show up when they are older (middle-aged, etc). 

When somebody doesn't share current pictures of their dogs and doesn't even talk about their dogs at all - I always get a little _curious _when they talk to other people about what they should be feeding their dogs. 

I fed my youngest guy PP (regular focus puppy) for the first couple months and switched him to PP Performance through the rest of the year... before gradually feeding him 1/2 and 1/2 PP and whatever I was feeding Jacks. By the time he was 2 years, I was feeding both dogs the same food. At the time, that was Nutrisource. I don't really make a big deal about food like I used to. 

Even with my dogs - when I go to the petstore, I'll sometimes just grab something different if it's on sale. A lot of your better brands are fairly consistent as far as quality of the food. 

Currently - I'm feeding the guys Earthborn Primitive Natural. Which is grain free food. 

Why? 

It was on sale. That's it. A bag of food can last me about 2 months (so I'm spending only $50 every 2 months - or if the food is on sale, about $38-40 for 2 months). It's been about 3 weeks and honestly I'm happy with Bertie's coat (actually, both dogs coats), but thinking Jacks needs to be on something with a lower fat % to help get weight off of him (he's 88#, needs to be 78#). He should be on something with a fat % around 9 or 10% (actually, the low fat option from Earthborn has a percentage around 7%). This food is more like 20%. 

I have fed PP to my dogs and actually I have a small bag of PP Performance riding around in my car. I add this to Bertie's food when we get to show season... : ** I don't always "go to" PP foods because I swear the dog poop stinks a bit more and sits in the yard longer. The other stuff I feed my dogs - it goes back to ground faster + even before then, the crows and other poop-eating critters keep the yard clean for us.

TOTW = my favorite "small bag" food to buy when on road trips. The small bags are like a dollar (or more) less than the other 5# bags of other brands...

Nutro Ultra is a good standby that I've fed my dogs time and again and seen no drop in quality of coat or health....

When it comes to dog foods I don't really get too crazy about only feeding X or Y foods and NEVER feeding others. Probably only exceptions =

Wellness = because whatever reason, Jacks absolutely turned his nose up at this food. And even our collie who will eat anything the goldens eat (as opposed to his required bland diet) turned his nose up at the food. It did have bones in it - I could see fish bones in the kibble, so that in addition to the dogs not liking the food was an easy return to the petstore and a reason why I just haven't looked at the brand ever again.

Fromm = me being turned off by the crazy Fromm people. LOL. And I haven't actually seen a big improvement in coat and muscle on some dogs eating Fromm vs other foods.... 

Grocery Store Kibble, Any brand = A lot of your lower quality kibbles are sold at grocery stores. So when you see those analysis websites picking on Purina, what they are talking about are the Purina brands sold at grocery stores. They aren't talking about the Pro Plans. Just something to keep in mind.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Most of the dog people I know around here, including my breeder now rotate their foods. My breeder actually mixes three or four different brands of different qualities together for her dogs. They feel that that way they are getting the benefits of a few of the foods. I now rotate too - and I do have one that is grain sensitive. He can have some grain, but if he was not on grain free food, and if he steals half a pizza - about five days later he has an ear infection or hot spot. Grain in his treats or part of a bite of a sandwich is not enough to affect him.


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## lhowemt (Jun 28, 2013)

Organs and innards making me squeamish? Nah, I grind and cook about 20 lbs of organs a few times a year for our home cooked meals. I got a superb bucket of pig organs after our annual hog slaughter and butcher. 

But do I trust food processing plants not to use their "byproducts" bin as their dump? Nope. I choose to have a higher quality protein than that. If they can't put a species on it, I don't want it.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

Both my dogs are on Pro Plan and they are thriving on it. My golden was raised on Pro Plan and he has a fantastic coat, so does my dachshund whom I switched to Pro Plan last year. 
I tried Earthborn formulas when my golden hit one year old - both my dogs did horrible on the Earthborn formulas. So, much for holistic overpriced food.
I also think each dog is different and thrives on different foods - feed whatever works.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I restlessly change from Pro plan performance to a top food out of guilt and then back again for showing. The one food that actually I have seen a positive difference is Orijens Regional Red for coat in my show dogs and leaner in my pet dogs. I sometimes feed Bravo as a special event- either the dehydrated or the raw patties, and I have fed Fromm for long stretches- the Four Star Chicken Ala Veg and puppy gold. I am also haphazard with supplements. I have given Longevity by Springtime and Dog Zymes complete by Nature's Farmacy but only a few of my golden will touch either. At one point I tried feeding The Honest Kitchen but I made a mess with it, and I couldn't find one every dog would eat. I do usually give nordic naturals fish oil. 

I feed about 75 percent Orijen RR right now interspersed with a bag of Proplan Performance here and a dose of Bravo there. 

I feed puppies Fromm Puppy Gold.

My vet has a 16 year old pointer that ate whatever hills etc was sending by, and I had a golden approach 16 eating Eukanuba. I think I would feed it still if I didn't cave into this nagging guilt I should be doing something else.

I don't have what it takes to feed raw. I cant afford to feed Ziwipeak but I would if I won powerball or had one or two toy dogs.


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