# 23” high female



## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Hi all,
My girl is 23” tall and doesn’t appear to have stopped growing yet. She’s 16 months old now. Last summer I showed her in the 6-9 month class and she was physically fully mature in size at 8 months of age. She has since grown over the winter. Her feet are so huge. She is the largest girlie I’ve ever owned. Her dam is quite tiny and her sire isn’t that large either. My current boy in the house is 23-1/4” high and weighs 66#, my girl 65#. My girl is lean and in great condition from all her trail running over the winter. She’s just a big girl, and she throws my male around like he was a feather. It’s kind of funny to watch.

My question is, how are judges looking at larger girls these days? She’s definitely over the breed standard in height. Does being a big girl help or hurt?


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Bumping up


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

The last time I measured Eevee she was about 23", but this was probably over a year ago and her front has dropped some since then, so I think she's closer to 22.5" now. Her ideal weight is 65 lb, but she can carry about 67 and not be fat. 63 and you can see her ribs. I doubt your girl is continuing to grow upward at 16 months, but it's not impossible. Eevee has filled out and matured a lot in the last 5-6 months. She's now 2 years 2 months old. 23" isn't technically out of standard, it's just out of the "ideal" range. Poor Rocket weighs in at a whopping 55 lb and Eevee throws him around like a ragdoll too. LOL

On the judging question: it REALLY depends on the judge. Eevee won points from the 6-9 class at 8 months old and was by far the biggest bitch in the class. She has won points from Open and been the biggest bitch in the class. Actually, she's nearly always the biggest bitch in her class. At ~22.5" she sticks out: sometimes in a good way and sometimes in a bad way. I have found that more experienced judges tend to like her more. Provisional judges or judges that haven't judged Goldens much don't like her presumably because of her size. My opinion is that inexperienced judges just see her size and think she's incorrect. More experienced judges look at the whole dog and see that she's actually very correct in terms of angles, balance, proportions, and that her size just means she could hang with the boys in doing what Goldens were bred to do. And her head/expression is to die for if I do say so myself ;-) What really grinds my gears is when Eevee gets dumped and undersized bitches get put up. And I mean REALLY undersized. Like would borderline measure out if they brought out a wicket. 

Hopefully Jill will see this thread and chime in. @Ljilly28 I know her girl Lush is bigger and she has said before that Lush was a harder finish in the classes, but was amazing in the breed ring. On the breed ring subject, there a couple of recent Top 20 bitches that are big: Elphie and Fuzz, Mystic's full siblings are big girls. I haven't seen Elphie in person in forever, but Fuzz is bigger than Eevee and her daughter Fudge is even bigger. Fudge was never finished in the US, but is a Can GCH. 

Anyway, hope this helps. It can be frustrating sometimes, but I don't think my frustrations are any different than any other owner handler. It's really just a total crapshoot on who wins sometimes.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I showed my girl Lucy at the national specialty a few years ago. At the time I thought she was an average bitch in size, I think she was 22", at least that's what I jumped her in obedience if I remember right. Anyway, we got our judge write up in the magazine, and the judge noted her as one of the bigger bitches in the class (she was 3rd in her class). That comment surprised me about her being large. She didn't have huge bones and her feet were kind of small. Her ears were correct. I thought it was an interesting comment. But like you say, it's all in the judges opinion.

As for growth, I've had goldens that were not full size until age 3. Some lines are just slow growing. Lucy was from one of those lines. Ruby my new girl, definitely isn't a slow grower. She was a bit wonky last summer in the 6 to 9 month class. But now at 16 months she just needs more coat.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

I am showing her to three breeder judges that I hope will like her next month, but we’ll see. I would say that the majority of the class bitches I see are under 22” for sure. Most are right at or under 21.5”. They have been trending smaller lately and I’m not sure that’s necessarily a good thing. Eevee’s mom is right at 22” and dad is probably right at 23”, but grandpa Percy is a big boy and she has some pretty good sized Gold Rush dogs behind her too, so I’m not surprised that she is a bigger girl.

I also think that judges more experienced in Goldens have a better eye for how tall a dog actually is as well. When you have a sea of 21.5” or less bitches, the 22.5” bitch seems much bigger than she really is. The experienced judges can tell that she’s not out of standard and give her a fairer shot. 

Eevee’s size does pretty much automatically count out certain potential sires because we would be risking producing oversized puppies.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Maegan - which show next month?

Hamilton? (am waffling about entering that show) - <= my only issue is I'd probably enter Sat and do both shows that day, but I know the judge (Collins) for one of the shows and feel weird entering under her.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Megora said:


> Maegan - which show next month?
> 
> Hamilton? (am waffling about entering that show) - <= my only issue is I'd probably enter Sat and do both shows that day, but I know the judge (Collins) for one of the shows and feel weird entering under her.


Yes, Hamilton. I want to show her to Cindy per your recommendation and to Patty and Donna again. Last time Patty and Donna saw her, she was a few days shy of 13 months and had dead tail.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

ArkansasGold said:


> Yes, Hamilton. I want to show her to Cindy per your recommendation and to Patty and Donna again. Last time Patty and Donna saw her, she was a few days shy of 13 months and had dead tail.


That's one of my favorite shows to do - and quite honestly since I wouldn't be grooming (unless they allow electric by then), would take that annoyance out of the equation. I'll have to talk to my mom to see if she wants to do a road trip with me - and I'd leave her with my sister down there.... 

@Alaska7133 - I can't answer as a boy dog owner. The girlies all look little to me. I do know that with the boys - I asked a handler once about a boy she was handling who was 24 or maybe a 1/2 over - and she said it's not the worst thing because goldens are getting so short. With this boy - I really didn't see him get anywhere in classes, but he had a tail issue which I think was more to blame.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

Megora said:


> That's one of my favorite shows to do - and quite honestly since I wouldn't be grooming (unless they allow electric by then), would take that annoyance out of the equation. I'll have to talk to my mom to see if she wants to do a road trip with me - and I'd leave her with my sister down there....
> 
> @Alaska7133 - I can't answer as a boy dog owner. The girlies all look little to me. I do know that with the boys - I asked a handler once about a boy she was handling who was 24 or maybe a 1/2 over - and she said it's not the worst thing because goldens are getting so short. With this boy - I really didn't see him get anywhere in classes, but he had a tail issue which I think was more to blame.


Come on down! It should be a pretty fun weekend.


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## DanaRuns (Sep 29, 2012)

ArkansasGold said:


> Hopefully Jill will see this thread and chime in. @Ljilly28 I know her girl Lush is bigger and she has said before that *Lush was a harder finish in the classes, but was amazing in the breed ring*.


That has been my experience, too. At least in the classes below open a larger bitch has a harder time. But in the breed ring they are standouts and, all things being equal, will get a better look and will win more.

A friend of mine has a large bitch (tall and beefy) who is a beautiful dog. But she is often mistaken for a boy. Once a judge pulled her out and put her best of breed, and then pulled out another bitch as best opposite! She thought my friend's girl was a boy. LOL! The handler of the BOS girl let the judge have it. And it was crazy. The judge had let the other dogs leave the ring, and had to call them all back in and redo the judging until she got it right. My friend's bitch still won the breed, and the BOS dog got a select instead. But how embarrassing. Sometimes a big girl gets mistaken for a boy. But they do do well in the breed ring.

BTW my friend's bitch earned her GCHS in fairly efficient manner. Despite some mistaking her for a male, she was a really nice dog.


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## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

DanaRuns said:


> That has been my experience, too. At least in the classes below open a larger bitch has a harder time. But in the breed ring they are standouts and, all things being equal, will get a better look and will win more.
> 
> A friend of mine has a large bitch (tall and beefy) who is a beautiful dog. But she is often mistaken for a boy. Once a judge pulled her out and put her best of breed, and then pulled out another bitch as best opposite! She thought my friend's girl was a boy. LOL! The handler of the BOS girl let the judge have it. And it was crazy. The judge had let the other dogs leave the ring, and had to call them all back in and redo the judging until she got it right. My friend's bitch still won the breed, and the BOS dog got a select instead. But how embarrassing. Sometimes a big girl gets mistaken for a boy. But they do do well in the breed ring.
> 
> BTW my friend's bitch earned her GCHS in fairly efficient manner. Despite some mistaking her for a male, she was a really nice dog.


I've never had a judge mistake her for a dog before, but I've had lots of other people ask her sex because they couldn't tell. Pet people nearly always think she's a dog and about half of our friends think that she is the boy and Rocket is the girl. LOL 

A friend of mine thinks my girl may also do better in larger entries where there is a better size range and she's not far and above all of the other tiny ones. LOL I sure hope that she stands out like Lush and your friend's girl when she hits the breed ring.


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