# Need Food Help



## dgalow (Jan 23, 2018)

We have been on Royal Canin GR Adult for 6 months (Finn is 1.5 years).
He was on RC puppy earlier in his younger life.
He has moderate activity.....Ball throwing and charging around our two acre yard a few hours a day. He is penned indoors while we are at work. He also gets about a 1 mile per day walk in addition to the 1-1.5 hours of ball throwing and chasing squirrels. We literally spend over two hours/day dedicated to exercise with him.
He receives 4 cups of RCGR per day (2 am/2 pm).
He is gaining weight (90# of SOLID dog), and I am concerned about knee health with his extra "padding".
I contacted RC today via chat to see the feeding recommendations, they suggested going on weight management formula (not specifically for GRs).
Suggestions appreciated for slimming him down while maintaining adequate taurine...... Frustrated with my chat and their suggestion that I am underfeeding him with 4 cups/day......


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Bumping up


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

The simple thing is calories in has to equal calories out. you can't just feed a set amount and expect it to be the right amount. #1, the feeding instructions on the bag are ONLY a guideline. You have to add or subtract what you feed based on body condition. the majority of the time you should look to start at about 85-90% of the recommended amount and adjust from there. I will hear vets say "oh, your dog is 90#, feed him 5 cups a day" or something like that without ever asking what you feed. every food and every dog is different. The easy way is to feed the amount or a little less then what the bag say to feed for the weight you want. So if he's 90# and you want him at 70# then feed the 70# amount or a little less.


To help with weight loss you can do simple things like ice cubes in the water bowl at meals and when they come in from playing/running, use raw whole veggies as they are much harder to digest then cooked veggies and even freeze the veggies/treats when you can. Ice cold and frozen food cools the body and it burns calories reheating the itself.


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## rtboswell (Aug 17, 2019)

http://research.unc.edu/files/2012/11/CCM3_032387.pdf

Check the body condition chart out and use it to figure out where your boy is in terms of figure not just weight. Just like humans different dogs carry weight differently. Like it was said above, the bag is a suggested portion; personally, I use it as only an estimate and will check my dogs versus the body condition system and adjust their portions up or down as needed. 

When you say “solid,” what does that mean, especially in relation to the chart that is linked?


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## littlehouse (Sep 19, 2018)

You're overfeeding your dog by about twice as much. Great Pyrenees dogs don't get that much food.

If you can't feel his ribs, then he's overweight. Cut back to one cup in the morning and one at night. Try stuffing his food in a Kong and make him work to get it out.


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## diane0905 (Aug 20, 2010)

dgalow said:


> We have been on Royal Canin GR Adult for 6 months (Finn is 1.5 years).
> He was on RC puppy earlier in his younger life.
> He has moderate activity.....Ball throwing and charging around our two acre yard a few hours a day. He is penned indoors while we are at work. He also gets about a 1 mile per day walk in addition to the 1-1.5 hours of ball throwing and chasing squirrels. We literally spend over two hours/day dedicated to exercise with him.
> He receives 4 cups of RCGR per day (2 am/2 pm).
> ...


Ninety is a lot. How tall is he? I'd start gradually cutting his food back or choose a weightless formula. Check the calories on the bag. All dogs are different. The food varies. I think the bag amounts usually seem excessive. My Golden ate one cup of dog food in the morning and one at night. He also got sirloin -- about 1/4 cup -- twice a day with his food. A couple of treats. He weighed 72lbs. He exercised a lot until he was a senior and then ill -- 45 minutes to an hour of swimming in the summer -- and three to five miles of walking when it was cool enough. It was closer to three once he was seven or so. Plus, he played. He developed elbow arthritis as a senior. It really slows them down.


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## dgalow (Jan 23, 2018)

rtboswell said:


> http://research.unc.edu/files/2012/11/CCM3_032387.pdf
> 
> Check the body condition chart out and use it to figure out where your boy is in terms of figure not just weight. Just like humans different dogs carry weight differently. Like it was said above, the bag is a suggested portion; personally, I use it as only an estimate and will check my dogs versus the body condition system and adjust their portions up or down as needed.
> 
> When you say “solid,” what does that mean, especially in relation to the chart that is linked?


For some reason I cannot open the chart? (yes, I am on a "real" computer vs. phone)
He is solid, meaning a muscle ball. Does he have some chub? Yes. But for the most part I would not say he is a fat dog, but could stand to lose probably 10#.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

dgalow said:


> For some reason I cannot open the chart? (yes, I am on a "real" computer vs. phone)
> He is solid, meaning a muscle ball. Does he have some chub? Yes. But for the most part I would not say he is a fat dog, but could stand to lose probably 10#.


Honestly, in most cases, a 90# golden would ideally need to lose 15-20 pounds. The average person that thinks their dog is solid and is muscular and only needs to lose a few pounds really has an overnight dog. I'm not saying this your case, but it is more times then not. There's a reason that 65% of dogs in the USA are overweight.

I would suggest posting a picture if you can. No judging, Objective eyes are far better to evaluate. Unless your dog is just really big for the breed, 90 pounds is quite a bit bigger then the 65-75 pound standard. 20 pounds extra on a 70 pounds dog is about 30% extra. Think about 30% on a woman that is 120 pounds... That's like gaining 36 pounds. It's a lot more than you really think.

Remember, a dog that is 5 pounds over Target weight can expect 2.5 years less on their life expectancy and 5 pounds under target weight can add 2.5 years to their like expectancy.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

We need to consider feeding our dogs based on caloric and nutritional intake, not volume (how much we put in their bowl), some foods are low calorie such as RC Adult golden @ 276 kcal per cup, others are much higher (the one I feed is 419 kcal per cup), so it is not so simple to suggest one is feeding too much (by volume) and cut the dog back to 2 cups a day if they are feeding a low calorie food - for simplicity sake, the calorie density can be judged by the amount needed to feed to meet the minimum energy requirements for a dog. 

We also need to keep in mind that a dog food is only required to meet the minimum (not 'optimal') nutrient requirements (as set out by AAFCO) of the dog of the specific group the food was intended for ie: puppy, adult, pregnant or lactating, so if one is feeding substantially less than the minimum stated on the bag, keeping mind that when we remove calories we are also removing nutrients available to our dogs, there is a risk of creating a nutrient deficiency for that dog. We also need to consider the impact of the carbohydrate content of our dog's food, many of which are close to 50%, which if not used/burned can lead to unwanted weight gain. 

OP consider feeding your dog a food with higher meat protein content and lower carbohydrate content. To figure out the carbohydrate percentage of a dog food - add together - crude protein, fat, moisture, fiber and ash (if not stated 6% is considered average) then subtract from 100 to give the carbohydrate percentage of a food. I have fed my dogs a high protein/low carb diet for their whole lives, (my senior boy is over 12 yrs.) and have never had issues with extra weight on any of them, they have always been lean and healthy. 


'Remember, a dog that is 5 pounds over Target weight can expect 2.5 years less on their life expectancy and 5 pounds under target weight can add 2.5 years to their like expectancy.'

While I understand the importance of keeping a dog lean, I have to wonder how one can keep a dog under weight and still meet it's minimum nutritional/energy requirements without risking nutritional deficiencies long term?

If we look at the study done by Dr. Stern on the 24 golden retrievers https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0209112 it is stated:

'All dogs with DCM in this study were consuming diets with similar characteristics, including grain-free, uncommon protein based, or legume-rich formulations. We also noted that all but one of these dogs were consuming less food than their calculated MER would suggest and thus cannot exclude the role of dietary intake in these cases.'

Something to consider when we are focused on reducing caloric intake.


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## Maggie'sVoice (Apr 4, 2018)

The simple thing is calorie in needs to equal calorie out roughly. That's how you maintain body weight and not add or subtract weight.

A dog the size of a Golden or a lab will require between 900-1200 calories a day (not a working dog) based on activity level, age and metabolism. The kcals per cup of food for which ever food you feed overall will determine how much to feed to maintain a certain weight.

And keeping a dog a few pounds light and feeding the amount of food that maintains that weight will not cause nutritional deficiencies. Excesses and deficiencies overall are in the food. More or less of a balanced diet will not cause issues long term unless you're feeding a dog so little he is emaciated. The point is it's better to be a few pounds lighter then a few pounds overweight.


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## rtboswell (Aug 17, 2019)

dgalow said:


> For some reason I cannot open the chart? (yes, I am on a "real" computer vs. phone)
> He is solid, meaning a muscle ball. Does he have some chub? Yes. But for the most part I would not say he is a fat dog, but could stand to lose probably 10#.


Very odd- it worked the day I posted and now its not working for me either. Nevertheless, I've attached the chart this time for ease of use.


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