# Kinked tail and length



## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

Hello my golden just turned 8 weeks old 2 days ago and I noticed he has a slight kink at the end of his tail. You can't visibly see the kink but I'm wondering is his tail looks a little extra short. A couple people have commented that his tail is short and fat. I've never owned a golden and haven't had a puppy in awhile so I'm not sure what tails should look like at this age. If it is short will it grow? I'm taking him to the vet next week so I will ask them questions as well.


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## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

Not sure what happened with the pictures?


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Welcome, he sure is a cute and fuzzy boy.

From the pictures I can't see the kink. 
Have you taken him to the Vet for a check up since you've brought him home?


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## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

He will go to the vet next week when we are home. He's been great I'm just wondering if his tail looks short?


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

So, as an adult, the tail should touch the top of the hock joint ...sometimes puppy tails are a bit longer or shorter but they all end up pretty close to that joint as adults if they are not kinked, missing bones, or added bones (I just got a radiograph of a tail the other day with an extra bone!) 
Your puppy's tail does appear to be a bit short and does look thicker at the end than I am used to but that might be hair. Sometimes midline defects make for a docked tail that's not so short it's obvious to anyone except in a group. If I can find that extra bone rad I will post it.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

so that wee bone 3rd up made for a kink when it grew there unwanted and not normal...


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Cute puppy... never seen a pup with so much hair on the face! Too sweet, enjoy. Most golden pups have shorter tails when they are babies but all seem to come out about the same by the time they are grown.
My girl has a curve in her tail and a kink at the end... unless you plan on competing in conformation it's not a big deal. I think my girl's tail is really cute  

LOL I never thought about having rads done to confirm extra digits in the tail. Just saw the rad, that's exactly what my girls tail feels like when I run my hand along the tail. Too funny!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Off topic question, but what did mom and dad look like?


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## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

Mom was curly and dad was your standard golden!


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## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

His tail does come down to the top of the hock! And yeah I also think it looks thick cause he has a wavy/curly coat and is very fluffy!


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## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

I just hope his tail grows to be a normal length cause I know it helps them a lot when swimming


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Haley johnson813 said:


> Mom was curly and dad was your standard golden!


The reason why I asked - is the pictures on the bed made me wonder if there was poodle in there.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Poodle breeders dock the tails so you may want to ask them. It's a very long tail but docked. Regardless, there is plenty of tail to rudder while swimming.


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## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

puddles everywhere said:


> Poodle breeders dock the tails so you may want to ask them. It's a very long tail but docked.


He is a pure bred golden retriever


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Are you willing to share the breeder name, he's cute as a bug!


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## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

Megora said:


> Haley johnson813 said:
> 
> 
> > Mom was curly and dad was your standard golden!
> ...


He gets that a lot lol his mom was just a curly golden so he's got some of her curls!


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## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

puddles everywhere said:


> Are you willing to share the breeder name, he's cute as a bug!


They aren't really breeders it was their dogs first litter and she will only have one more


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Well he's really cute, enjoy your pup.


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## MavericksMom (Mar 3, 2019)

I noticed my pup’s tail is short and is kinked in 2 places. We can also feel 3 vertebrae at the end that are separated from the rest of the tail. The vet says his tail was probably broken very early in life - maybe even in uterus - or stepped on when he was a few days old. Those bones did not grow from lack of blood supply. Otherwise, he’s a happy healthy boy, now 9 1/2 months old.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Haley johnson813 said:


> They aren't really breeders it was their dogs first litter and she will only have one more


Having even one accidental litter makes a person a breeder with responsibility to the breed and all the people who purchase their puppies. 
Even more so responsibility if they sell puppies with full registration, which is going to end up with another (at least one) who reproduces and puts more puppies out there. 
ALL clearances should be done on breeding animals. Period.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

OK, I've never been great at math but your first post was 8/15/2019 and he was 8 weeks old.... how did your dog become 9.5 months so quickly? Is this the same dog???


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## Pytheis (Mar 17, 2016)

puddles everywhere said:


> OK, I've never been great at math but your first post was 8/15/2019 and he was 8 weeks old.... how did your dog become 9.5 months so quickly? Is this the same dog???


It was a different user that posted the new pictures of their 9.5 month old puppy, not the OP. ?


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## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

Prism Goldens said:


> Haley johnson813 said:
> 
> 
> > They aren't really breeders it was their dogs first litter and she will only have one more
> ...


I was just stating that they don't breed very often and will likely only breed their dog a total of 2 times and it is the only dog they have


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Thanks, obviously coffee 1st.. post 2nd.

Haley, you are missing the point. If you are going to produce puppies you should do it responsibly. To have one litter is bad enough, to do it twice and not ensure the pups you are producing aren't passing on bad hips/elbows or heart problems is extremely irresponsible. The families that get these puppies and the puppies deserve better. It certainly doesn't improve the breed. 
Every puppy that they produce goes into a home where it could also produce a litter or two and in less than a year you have produced hundreds of puppies that possibly end up in the pounds. If you breed at all, do it responsibly!


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## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

puddles everywhere said:


> Thanks, obviously coffee 1st.. post 2nd.
> 
> Haley, you are missing the point. If you are going to produce puppies you should do it responsibly. To have one litter is bad enough, to do it twice and not ensure the pups you are producing aren't passing on bad hips/elbows or heart problems is extremely irresponsible. The families that get these puppies and the puppies deserve better. It certainly doesn't improve the breed.
> Every puppy that they produce goes into a home where it could also produce a litter or two and in less than a year you have produced hundreds of puppies that possibly end up in the pounds. If you breed at all, do it responsibly!


The family I got my puppy from was responsible. All the puppies were up to date on shots they recommend their favorite vet to me and both parents to the puppies are extremely healthy well taken care of dogs. They said they loved their dog so much and thought she was amazing so they tried breeding her. I don't know if they'll do it again but they said they might. The "breeder" even messaged me the other day to check in on my puppy. My puppy has been extremely healthy and happy just had a small kink in his tail.


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## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

puddles everywhere said:


> Thanks, obviously coffee 1st.. post 2nd.
> 
> Haley, you are missing the point. If you are going to produce puppies you should do it responsibly. To have one litter is bad enough, to do it twice and not ensure the pups you are producing aren't passing on bad hips/elbows or heart problems is extremely irresponsible. The families that get these puppies and the puppies deserve better. It certainly doesn't improve the breed.
> Every puppy that they produce goes into a home where it could also produce a litter or two and in less than a year you have produced hundreds of puppies that possibly end up in the pounds. If you breed at all, do it responsibly!


Interesting how people assume since I didn't get my puppy from a big time breeder that it must mean he wasn't well taken care of. It wasn't an accidental litter they just don't want to be full time breeders.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

No one is assuming that. What is being pointed out is that breeding is a responsibility, and doing it well requires care. 
I'm sure your breeder loved every one of the puppies. But did they get hip, elbow, heart by cardiologist and an eye clearance on both their dogs before they sold their offspring to people who probably want problems with any of the above like they want a broken leg? Or worse, want to lose their precious pet to a cardiac issue because no one bothered to check the sire and dam for a very heritable genetic condition?

Whether one has one litter by accident or a hundred litters- the responsibility remains the same. And I hope if you chat with them you will suggest they do things the right way for the breed and for all the people who will invest their dollars and their hearts in the puppies.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Haley - a responsible breeder does not breed a dog unless they can check of the below boxes:

1. Is the bitch registered AKC - full registration + came from a trustworthy breeder*?
2. Is the stud registered AKC - full registration + came from a trustworthy breeder*?
3. Did both the bitch and the stud have full clearances prior to being put together to make puppies?
4. Does the breeder know and understand both the breed standard? 
5. Is the breeder knowledgeable about the breed and all of its problems? 

*A trustworthy breeder is somebody who has bred and produced several generations of golden retrievers and based on passion and involvement with the breed is unlikely to be involved with mutt breeding. 

^^^ All of the above does NOT mean people should only buy from big name breeders with fully loaded pedigrees. 

All of the above means people should be very careful. There are lots of startup breeders out there who are breeding what they say are "purebred" goldens, but they also breed other things on their DOG FARMS. And as well the "purebred" dogs they own came from brokers, mills, hoobly, etc... and basically the only boxes they check off is "looks purebred" and "intact". 

Irresponsible breeders out there are unfortunately selling dogs to anyone and everyone... and that's why their kennel names show up in the worst places. A responsible breeder is checking up all those boxes above, but they are also screening prospective homes and deterring people from breeding the dogs. 

Veterinary involvement is something that is MEANINGLESS, because most vets today are owners of mixed breed dogs, if anything. Being a vet does not mean they understand the difference between breeding dogs, and breeding a dog that every way reflects a breed standard. Ditto knowing issues with a breed deeper than cancer and obesity. Ditto know anything about a breed's code of ethics (not breeding puppies prior to getting OFA clearaces on the dogs). Ditto knowing anything about pedigrees.

It's stuff to be careful about BEFORE you buy a puppy.

^^^ The above with some people is like talking to a wall. You know the wall is shut and cannot hear. But in this case anyone else who may come can learn or understand.


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## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

Megora said:


> Haley - a responsible breeder does not breed a dog unless they can check of the below boxes:
> 
> 1. Is the bitch registered AKC - full registration + came from a trustworthy breeder*?
> 2. Is the stud registered AKC - full registration + came from a trustworthy breeder*?
> ...


Both parents are papered and I met both parents. I'm not looking for a dog to show I'm looking a healthy companion which is what I got. I know I have a purebred Golden retriever not that it matters because I love all dogs not just purebred animals that cost thousands. And the fact that you think a vet being involved is meaningless makes me question what you know about breeding and animal health in general. I'm not sure why you came on her to lecture me about the breed standard when I myself am not breeding any dogs.


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## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

Prism Goldens said:


> No one is assuming that. What is being pointed out is that breeding is a responsibility, and doing it well requires care.
> I'm sure your breeder loved every one of the puppies. But did they get hip, elbow, heart by cardiologist and an eye clearance on both their dogs before they sold their offspring to people who probably want problems with any of the above like they want a broken leg? Or worse, want to lose their precious pet to a cardiac issue because no one bothered to check the sire and dam for a very heritable genetic condition?
> 
> Whether one has one litter by accident or a hundred litters- the responsibility remains the same. And I hope if you chat with them you will suggest they do things the right way for the breed and for all the people who will invest their dollars and their hearts in the puppies.



These were responsible people why are you trying to lecture me on responsible breeding when I am not breeding any dogs and you have no idea what these people were like or the steps they took to make sure these puppies are healthy. A kink in his tail does not mean they were irresponsible. I'm not looking for a show dog I'm looking for a companion.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

I realize you don't get all the hoopla but most of us have seen the bigger problem. The world doesn't need more puppies just for the sake of having puppies, even golden puppies. Walk through your local kill shelters and see how they are ALWAYS full BUT you will NEVER see a well bred golden from a responsible breeder in the pound. THOUSANDS of puppies are put to sleep or dumped to fend on their own every day. I'm not saying your neighbors are going to do this, I'm saying many of the people they sell or give these puppies to might.

When you get what we are calling an "at risk" puppy because it's cheaper... IF you don't have the dollars for a well bred puppy this also means you don't have the dollars to provide the medical care needed when the pup comes up with hip or elbow dysplasia either as it's several thousands for each joint. So what do you do? Most will take the dog to the pound hoping a rescue pulls the dog and provides the care needed or have the dog put down. 
When you breed puppies it's your responsibility to know what health issues the breed is prone to then do your best to prevent them.


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## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

puddles everywhere said:


> I realize you don't get all the hoopla but most of us have seen the bigger problem. The world doesn't need more puppies just for the sake of having puppies, even golden puppies. Walk through your local kill shelters and see how they are ALWAYS full BUT you will NEVER see a well bred golden from a responsible breeder in the pound. THOUSANDS of puppies are put to sleep or dumped to fend on their own every day. I'm not saying your neighbors are going to do this, I'm saying many of the people they sell or give these puppies to might.
> 
> When you get what we are calling an "at risk" puppy because it's cheaper... IF you don't have the dollars for a well bred puppy this also means you don't have the dollars to provide the medical care needed when the pup comes up with hip or elbow dysplasia either as it's several thousands for each joint. So what do you do? Most will take the dog to the pound hoping a rescue pulls the dog and provides the care needed or have the dog put down.
> When you breed puppies it's your responsibility to know what health issues the breed is prone to then do your best to prevent them.



I don't get the point you are trying to make you don't know how much I paid for this dog you don't know what these breeders were like kinked tails can happen in their mother's womb. Yes there are irresponsible people out there but I'm not one of them and these breeders are not either. Any dog can get hip dysplasia no matter how much you pay for it and it's not irresponsible breeders than send puppies to the pound it's irresponsible owners. You're making a lot of assumptions for a situation you know nothing about.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Kinked tails CAN happen in the womb. They can also be the result of a midline defect, due to too little folic acid. 
Any dog can get HD or ED. Odds are much reduced by clearances on parents. Odds of SAS are greatly reduced w proper cardiac clearances. 


I realize you think you're being lectured but you are not- at least not by me- I am asking you since you know these people to inquire about their plans to do clearances. Why? If only one more litter?
Puddles said why in another post- those 8 puppies can become 64 puppies in a years time. It's just the responsible thing to do. 
Especially when life is involved, responsibility is crucial. 
No one thinks you are irresponsible. You bought a puppy. Enough years in a breed and making the assumptions we're making is a decently good gamble. 
That's all. I hope none of his sibs are bred. I hope the breeders get clearances on the parents. I hope a lot of things, but have zero control over anything but the words I type which I hope someone learns from someday.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

and most vets are not breeders and have little idea what makes an animal a breedable animal who will be a good addition to the gene pool. 
No one disrespects vets here-my daughter is a vet. I love my vets. But other than my daughter, who is my breeding partner, I do not value my vets' opinions on who is breedable or not, because they do not know my breed standard like I do. I dk how to do surgery like they do.


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## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

Prism Goldens said:


> Kinked tails CAN happen in the womb. They can also be the result of a midline defect, due to too little folic acid.
> Any dog can get HD or ED. Odds are much reduced by clearances on parents. Odds of SAS are greatly reduced w proper cardiac clearances.
> 
> 
> ...


It's weird that from this one conversation you're worried breeders didn't have their clearances. These people have other lives other than breeding that's why they only wanted to do it once maybe twice. They realized they have a great hunting dog (something golden retrievers are actually bred to do) who is papered and wanted her to have great puppies with another amazing hunting dog so they did. They don't own a bunch of goldens just one and they want their golden to live a long happy life that isn't just about her being pregnant. It seems a lot of people are trying to inform me of breeding standards and such assuming I have no idea what I'm doing or how breeding works. I do actually I love dogs spent so much of my life researching various breeds as a hobby and a couple close family friends have bred their dogs properly so I know how this stuff works thanks.


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## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

Prism Goldens said:


> and most vets are not breeders and have little idea what makes an animal a breedable animal who will be a good addition to the gene pool.
> No one disrespects vets here-my daughter is a vet. I love my vets. But other than my daughter, who is my breeding partner, I do not value my vets' opinions on who is breedable or not, because they do not know my breed standard like I do. I dk how to do surgery like they do.


When is comes to my dogs health I will always value a vet being involved. I'm not here to breed my puppy so I do not care one bit if he's up to breed standards I ONLY care if he's healthy.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I'm not worried- I would bet they do not have clearances. If they did, you'd have said so earlier when their responsibility was questioned. 
I'm sorry you feel ganged up on but as I said earlier, I hope you will discuss w these breeders and they will do the right thing. 
BTW- ALL Goldens should be able to hunt. It's a crucial part of being Golden.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

The post below is the OP's original question, this thread has gone off in a lot of different directions. 

The OP's pup is home, she is committed to taking care of it and has asked about the tail..... 

Try to keep the Forum Rules in mind when you reply and get this thread back on topic which is about the tail. 





Haley johnson813 said:


> Hello my golden just turned 8 weeks old 2 days ago and I noticed he has a slight kink at the end of his tail. You can't visibly see the kink but I'm wondering is his tail looks a little extra short. A couple people have commented that his tail is short and fat. I've never owned a golden and haven't had a puppy in awhile so I'm not sure what tails should look like at this age. If it is short will it grow? I'm taking him to the vet next week so I will ask them questions as well.
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## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

Prism Goldens said:


> I'm not worried- I would bet they do not have clearances. If they did, you'd have said so earlier when their responsibility was questioned.
> I'm sorry you feel ganged up on but as I said earlier, I hope you will discuss w these breeders and they will do the right thing.
> BTW- ALL Goldens should be able to hunt. It's a crucial part of being Golden.


I haven't said much about the breeders because I don't feel the need to prove anything to you guys. My whole point is you shouldn't be questioning a situation you know nothing about. All of this was irrevelant to my original post and all seems like a way for you to preach about your breeding standards. I don't feel ganged up on I just feel like I'm being talked to by a bunch of people who have no information about the breeders or my puppy but are acting like everything has been done irresponsibly. I will not be contacting the breeders to discuss things with them because they already are doing the right thing.


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## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> The post below is the OP's original question, this thread has gone off in a lot of different directions.
> 
> The OP's pup is home, she is committed to taking care of it and has asked about the tail.....
> Try to keep the Forum Rules in mind when you reply and get this thread back on topic which is about the tail.
> ...


Thank you! I have no clue why people started this whole lecture on proper breeding and breed standards. But my puppy is doing great! Happiest and healthiest boy ever. His tail seems to be growing as fast as he is growing and he can sure wag that tail perfectly fine!


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Carolina mom.... which rule is this? What happened to discussing subjects that sort of spin off? 
So let me understand... there are to be only question and answers? 
Request for breeder information is limited to OFA information and unless it's a rescue, cannot help people find a good breeder with pups on the ground except in PM which of course new post cannot do? 
Educating people on why a good breeder is important is only allowed if this is the question? 
Educating people the importance of GR problems and the value of OFA clearances is only allowed if this is the question?
But it's ok to encourage backyard breeders and puppy mill breedings? 
Help clear up the position of the moderators and their purpose. No wonder so many wonderful educated people have left, which added so much value to this forum.


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

If anyone has a question, feel free to contact me or any member of the Mod Team via a PM.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

It seems to me that a natural course of things is a spin off. And yay for that. Recently another young woman asked Dana not to spin off 'her' thread.. Dana's description of what happens here more often than not was perfect. 

I wasn't aware threads belonged to anyone, and my biggest awareness is that this forum is one of education. Yeah, this gal doesn't care that her breeders don't do it right. If they did, she'd have gladly told who they were. However, it was HERE she came for opinions on that tail. I posted radiographs. Her breeder didn't do that for her. Everyone learns. It's a good thing. But if you use me for my knowledge, you have to be willing to hear me when I add more than you want to hear re: that breeder. 

Now- I don't give any part of a rat whether we continue here or not. I DO care a great deal about the level of education given here. If it is stopping due to some random 'rule' then all good. The breed will suffer. This is one of the few places a puppy person can come for right or wrong educating, without having to worry about 'oh it hurt my feelings you criticized my program' .. GRF has always allowed TRUTH to be told. Is this recent attitude towards 'my thread' going to continue to the detriment of the education here?


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## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

Prism Goldens said:


> It seems to me that a natural course of things is a spin off. And yay for that. Recently another young woman asked Dana not to spin off 'her' thread.. Dana's description of what happens here more often than not was perfect.
> 
> I wasn't aware threads belonged to anyone, and my biggest awareness is that this forum is one of education. Yeah, this gal doesn't care that her breeders don't do it right. If they did, she'd have gladly told who they were. However, it was HERE she came for opinions on that tail. I posted radiographs. Her breeder didn't do that for her. Everyone learns. It's a good thing. But if you use me for my knowledge, you have to be willing to hear me when I add more than you want to hear re: that breeder.
> 
> Now- I don't give any part of a rat whether we continue here or not. I DO care a great deal about the level of education given here. If it is stopping due to some random 'rule' then all good. The breed will suffer. This is one of the few places a puppy person can come for right or wrong educating, without having to worry about 'oh it hurt my feelings you criticized my program' .. GRF has always allowed TRUTH to be told. Is this recent attitude towards 'my thread' going to continue to the detriment of the education here?


You're obnoxious. The breeders did everything right and there is no point to tell you who they are cause you would have no idea how to find them or get in contact with them. Like I said they aren't big time breeders and you don't have to be to do it right once. You're not being educational you're just trying to tell everyone you're opinion.


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## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

Prism Goldens said:


> It seems to me that a natural course of things is a spin off. And yay for that. Recently another young woman asked Dana not to spin off 'her' thread.. Dana's description of what happens here more often than not was perfect.
> 
> I wasn't aware threads belonged to anyone, and my biggest awareness is that this forum is one of education. Yeah, this gal doesn't care that her breeders don't do it right. If they did, she'd have gladly told who they were. However, it was HERE she came for opinions on that tail. I posted radiographs. Her breeder didn't do that for her. Everyone learns. It's a good thing. But if you use me for my knowledge, you have to be willing to hear me when I add more than you want to hear re: that breeder.
> 
> Now- I don't give any part of a rat whether we continue here or not. I DO care a great deal about the level of education given here. If it is stopping due to some random 'rule' then all good. The breed will suffer. This is one of the few places a puppy person can come for right or wrong educating, without having to worry about 'oh it hurt my feelings you criticized my program' .. GRF has always allowed TRUTH to be told. Is this recent attitude towards 'my thread' going to continue to the detriment of the education here?


I didn't go to the breeder because of a kinked tail because I knew it wasn't a huge deal just wanted to know if people have experienced the same thing and how it turned out. People like you ruin these forums because all your "helpful information" is a tangent about proper breeding and I literally did not ask about that at all. This is probably my last post on here because you people have been so obnoxious.


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## Haley johnson813 (Aug 15, 2019)

Prism Goldens said:


> It seems to me that a natural course of things is a spin off. And yay for that. Recently another young woman asked Dana not to spin off 'her' thread.. Dana's description of what happens here more often than not was perfect.
> 
> I wasn't aware threads belonged to anyone, and my biggest awareness is that this forum is one of education. Yeah, this gal doesn't care that her breeders don't do it right. If they did, she'd have gladly told who they were. However, it was HERE she came for opinions on that tail. I posted radiographs. Her breeder didn't do that for her. Everyone learns. It's a good thing. But if you use me for my knowledge, you have to be willing to hear me when I add more than you want to hear re: that breeder.
> 
> Now- I don't give any part of a rat whether we continue here or not. I DO care a great deal about the level of education given here. If it is stopping due to some random 'rule' then all good. The breed will suffer. This is one of the few places a puppy person can come for right or wrong educating, without having to worry about 'oh it hurt my feelings you criticized my program' .. GRF has always allowed TRUTH to be told. Is this recent attitude towards 'my thread' going to continue to the detriment of the education here?


After looking at your profile it seems I'm not the only person you do this to. You apparently love to tell people their breeder is bad at what they do. Just so you know people don't have to do everything like you do and still be responsible.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

this is when I wish there was a haha button. 
Young lady- name calling? Really?

I AM an educator. It's not an opinion, it is the best practices. Not MY opinion. How it should be done. It's not obnoxious. It just IS. 
I Chair a GRCA program. I am on the Breeders Ed Committee. I am one of the ONLY 2 AKC Judges Ed mentors who is not also an AKC judge. 
I suspect I know Goldens. 
I can't make you want to know about Goldens but I am glad I was able to help you on the tail.


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## LynnC (Nov 14, 2015)

The Mod Team has voted to close this thread due to many GRF rule violations.


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