# Socialization vs too dog-interested



## myluckypenny (Nov 29, 2016)

I'm curious as to what other have to say as I have this same issue. My dog wants to say hi to everyone, and since I'm getting a puppy this summer I'd like to know if there's something I need to do differently!


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## reddog90 (Jan 13, 2017)

https://leerburg.com/flix/player.ph...vestock_-_In_the_Classroom_with_Michael_Ellis

This is what got me thinking about this topic.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

LOL it's just me but would rather have a dog that loves everybody and every dog than one that doesn't. My last girl was a high drive, trainers dream... she was a yr old when I got her so socialization was already in place. Our 1st obedience competition included trying to hug the judge  then doing a beautiful, heel position sit next to the people assigned as post for the figure 8 exercise. Needless to say there were lots of smiles to go around that day. Believe it or not we passed with flying colors. The good news is as you continue with the training they learn to contain their "social" with both people and pets. As their focus improves it's less of an issue.

I did however stop letting people approach my dog freely. It's simple to tell them you are in training. Maturity helps in this process!


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## FosterGolden (Mar 10, 2014)

I believe dogs come out of the womb needing different levels of socialization. You can expect certain breeds to need more and certain breeds to require less. 

At a seminar, Denise Fenzi explained that when you have a really social puppy, you don't need to follow the typical socialization advice and have everyone pet them or feed them and you don't need to let them play with every dog or puppy. It's better to socialize with people who are more on the neutral side, nice but not overly exciting or interesting. However, if you have a shyer or less certain dog or a breed that can be unsure then you may want people to pet and visit them and even feed them. I have a lot of Malanois friends and they are always loving on each other's dogs and feeding them and giving new people handfuls of high value treats to feed their dogs. Coming from overly social dogs that blew my mind! I had to set boundaries with my dog immediately. 

My personal experience is that if I had to do it all over again, I would have socialized one dog differently. He was my first dog since the internet started providing too much information and as a high play drive dog, I socialized him too much and I fed into that drive instead of placing value in other areas. 

So, I think it depends on the dog or puppy!


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

I think socialization means somewhat different things to different people. To me socialization means taking the dog out to a wide variety of situations where they encounter a wide variety of people, dogs and maybe other animals and having them learn to behave appropriately. Having had only Goldens, I'd say that probably the biggest challenge is dealing with "excessive greeting disorder". They have to learn that not everyone (people and dogs) need or want to be greeted. I think they learn this by being exposed to lots of people in a variety of situations but definitely not being greeted and petted by everybody they see. When a greeting is appropriate, I teach "sit for your greeting" to avoid what would otherwise often be jumping up and offering a hug.


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## reddog90 (Jan 13, 2017)

puddles everywhere said:


> LOL it's just me but would rather have a dog that loves everybody and every dog than one that doesn't. My last girl was a high drive, trainers dream... she was a yr old when I got her so socialization was already in place. Our 1st obedience competition included trying to hug the judge  then doing a beautiful, heel position sit next to the people assigned as post for the figure 8 exercise. Needless to say there were lots of smiles to go around that day. Believe it or not we passed with flying colors. The good news is as you continue with the training they learn to contain their "social" with both people and pets. As their focus improves it's less of an issue.
> 
> I did however stop letting people approach my dog freely. It's simple to tell them you are in training. Maturity helps in this process!


I didn't mean to portray that I want my next dog to not be friendly towards people. I just think there should be a balance, and having a dog that is more concerned with focusing on their owner rather than random people or dogs around them might be easier to take in public. 



FosterGolden said:


> I believe dogs come out of the womb needing different levels of socialization. You can expect certain breeds to need more and certain breeds to require less.
> 
> At a seminar, Denise Fenzi explained that when you have a really social puppy, you don't need to follow the typical socialization advice and have everyone pet them or feed them and you don't need to let them play with every dog or puppy. It's better to socialize with people who are more on the neutral side, nice but not overly exciting or interesting. However, if you have a shyer or less certain dog or a breed that can be unsure then you may want people to pet and visit them and even feed them. I have a lot of Malanois friends and they are always loving on each other's dogs and feeding them and giving new people handfuls of high value treats to feed their dogs. Coming from overly social dogs that blew my mind! I had to set boundaries with my dog immediately.
> 
> ...


Very good point on it depending on the dog.



TheZ's said:


> I think socialization means somewhat different things to different people. To me socialization means taking the dog out to a wide variety of situations where they encounter a wide variety of people, dogs and maybe other animals and having them learn to behave appropriately. Having had only Goldens, I'd say that probably the biggest challenge is dealing with "excessive greeting disorder". They have to learn that not everyone (people and dogs) need or want to be greeted. I think they learn this by being exposed to lots of people in a variety of situations but definitely not being greeted and petted by everybody they see. When a greeting is appropriate, I teach "sit for your greeting" to avoid what would otherwise often be jumping up and offering a hug.


That's what socialization means to me as well. How do you recognize and teach that not every person and dog gets greeted?


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## reddog90 (Jan 13, 2017)

Why are European dogs so well behaved? | The Bark


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## Mayabear (Aug 26, 2015)

I was puzzled when I read your original post, but I get what you are saying.

Due to inexperience and general ignorance, we didn't necessarily pick Maya from a reputable breeder. I would not trade Maya for any other dog, but I noticed she was more skittish than what I had seen in a lot of other dogs. So we worked hard on socializing. 

Maya actively seeks to make eye contact with strangers on the road so that she can greet them. She lives to be around people. Its her most endearing trait, but also one that can be inconvenient. Not everyone wants to say hi. And there are a fair number of people who are afraid of dogs.

I wonder whether her behavior is the product of her breed, or socializing. Probably a mix of the two, but there are times where I'd rather we walked uninterrupted!

The article on European dogs is spot on. We have had Maya for 2 years. During that time, we have visited various parts of Europe. After becoming pet owners, we obviously noticed how dogs behaved and were treated elsewhere. Everywhere we saw, dogs went about their business like everyone else. They were allowed everywhere - recently in Austria we stopped in a high end store primarily to say hi to these two lovely Labs. One, the owner seemed surprised because approaching strangers' dogs is not the norm. Two, the labs, who were probably both under the age of 2 years, were perfectly calm. We saw several dogs off leash behaving perfectly well. On trains and subways they were muzzled per law and seemed ok with it. Everything pointed to calmer dogs that seemed to be well integrated into society. So we asked the question to each other - is it a lot of training, or just the general attitude towards dogs that allows them to flourish this way?


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

reddog90 said:


> That's what socialization means to me as well. How do you recognize and teach that not every person and dog gets greeted?


Trying to think of a quick and simple answer to this. Not sure there is one but here are a couple of thoughts.

I think it depends on what you want to do with the dog. I've never done field work so don't know how training for that would conflict with what I do for socialization. My interests are obedience, a bit of agility, therapy work, and above all having a well behaved dog that I can take out in public and travel with. I'm actually not sure how compatible the therapy work and socialization are with the intense focus that's required for really successful competition obedience.

Giving the dog lots of exposure to different people, dogs, situations etc. takes the novelty out of a new encounter so it's less exciting for the dog. I take my dogs to training classes in part to give them exposure to other dogs and people. I also like to take the dogs for walks in the park where there are lots of other walkers with on leash dogs. Walking in the center of our small town in the late afternoon is a great way to encounter a variety of people, some with dogs (often not very well trained). Some of these people are really anxious to greet my dog and some are definitely not. 

Especially in the early stages of socialization you have to be aware of your surroundings and try to anticipate how your dog is going to react to something they're about to encounter and get out in front of the interaction. For example, someone's coming down the street with a toddler in a stroller . . . you can stop, have your dog sit, get the dogs attention on you if necessary, let the stroller pass by. If you think your dog can't do that, cross to the other side of the street or turn in another direction. With practice you can get to the point where you and your dog can just calmly walk past the person with the stroller or engage the person in conversation while the dog sits.

As mentioned above, I teach "sit for your greeting". If a person wants to greet the dog, I decide whether that's a good idea before they're within arms length of the dog. If I decide it isn't, I say something like "we're training" and step a little to the side and let them pass by. If I think it's ok I say "she has to sit before she get's a greeting" to alert the person not to pet unless she's sitting. Hopefully the dog will be in a sit in anticipation, but if not, she's reminded with "sit for your greeting". 

In terms of people or dogs that we avoid greeting, I take a better safe than sorry type approach. For example, we avoid greeting people with dogs that look aggressive or highly excitable, people whose energy level or behavior is likely to excite my dog, and people with small children who are not being closely monitored.

Of course having the dog's complete focus on you is probably the best way to make sure they don't greet anyone and everyone. This is a big subject and books and courses are dedicated to the subject of focus and engagement. The Fenzi materials come to mind in this regard.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Attention training like in formal obedience really helps. There's nothing like eye contact heeling to teach your dog to pay attention until you release them. My Molly is people obsessed (although at 5 she has toned it down), but when I command her attention I am the only person who exists, even as a young dog/puppy. We started young, before six months. There is a class (I think this is offered at some dog training places across the country) that focuses on attention, called Contol Unleashed, based on a popular book by Leslie McDevitt. You can see if there might be one in your area. 

My Maisey only does field and I have not done attention training with her. Her attention is on the world in front of her, waiting for birds to drop.  She is not as people obsessed even though I socialized her as much as I did my older dog, so I think it is a combination of both temperament and training.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

Duplicate post.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

reddog90 said:


> How do you balance socialization of your new puppy without creating problems of being too dog-interested later in life?
> 
> My current dog is a high-drive intact field dog. I thought I did a very good job of socialization when he was young. Looking back, I think I might have almost done too much. I wanted just about every person he saw as a puppy to pet him, and every dog (I trusted) to interact with him. I wonder if it would have been better to socialize with a smaller group of people and dogs, and treat train to focus more on me around everyone else. Basically, be friends with a small group, and neutral to everyone else. I am just looking to improve with my next dog. How do you guys balance all of this with your puppies?


This is the reason I bring my dogs to obedience class. The dog learns to behave around other dogs. Plus I have constant input from my trainer. I train for focus and attention in class. However you cannot compete with other dogs.

And, many will disagree with me, but I very much manage any interactions with other dogs. My dogs can romp and play with each other and I only allow it with maybe three or four other dogs that we know (infrequently) but I would rather not.

Also, socialization does not mean partying with other dogs. It means exposing the dog to the world that he will come in contact with.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Appropriate and ongoing socialization is important for any dog, personally I don't think you can socialize a dog 'too much', but 'how' it is done, is key to a successful outcome. 

That being said, it is also important to teach a dog patience/ self control, to wait for permission to greet, to greet appropriately, and a solid 'leave it' cue, with my dogs 'leave it' is learned along with an 'automatic' 'look at me', making it easier for them refocus and attend to the next cue - which may be - go visit, let's go, and we move on or take it (if we are dealing with an item).


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