# Venting...just a little slightly bit..



## CrazyZane (Jan 28, 2013)

Get a trainer or take her to a puppy training class.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Are you taking her to classes?

Dogs don't learn stuff in one training session.

It takes months.

It might even take years for some dogs. 

And what you get out of it is the satisfaction that you did not take the easy way out and quit on the dog. 

Unless you literally have no patience to take things day by day and work at the training on a daily and minute by minute basis. In which case, it might be better to re-home her so she can be happier. 

I'm putting this as directly and probably harshly as that, because I do think people get goldens thinking that they are going to be the easy button. Or they think dog training happens overnight. 

You need to explore different training methods - pick up obedience classes and stay in them for the next year or two. The point is you will be going to class with other people every week, and it will keep you focused on working on the training and keeping up with it. Instead working for a half hour (EGAD) and then thinking the dog will remember all that the next day. 

5-10 minute sessions, 2-5 a day work best for training, btw.


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Goldens aren't dumb.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Get a trainer who can help you one on one. Your puppy is not dumb as rocks, both of you just need someone to help you learn together as a team with you as her partner, guardian and trainer. Training should be FUN! I am always surprised by how much my 7 month old picks up, even if he doesn't get it right away, we just move on then come back later. When I say "Yogi, lets go train", he gets so excited and he literally runs into the room where we work, tail wagging. He also starts crying with excitement when we drive up to our place for classes with our trainer. That is the way training should be.

My guess is she is picking up on your frustration and that's just making it worse. Stop, take a deep breath, promise yourself you will be happy and make it fun for her. Always end on a positive note, something she knows and give her lots of praise and lots of treats. If you start to get frustrated stop the session immediately.

Go back to short sessions- even if it's just 5 minutes. If she doesn't get it, move on. 

I promise you she's not dumber than a box of rocks. It's a good thing she can't read this or you might have one emotionally traumatized puppy.


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## inge (Sep 20, 2009)

I am not quite sure what you want to hear. You tell us your pup of eight months old is :

_"However, she is dumber than a doorknob, a box of rocks, a shoe with no lace, and missing all the chicken nuggets in her happy meal. For real!"_

I am sorry, but I resent that. You claim to be a dog trainer and your husband trains dogs 'for the state of Florida' and you don't know that pups of eight months are still toddlers. With a toddler brain? What kind of encouragement do you hope to find? Maybe the way you train is not the way she gets it...


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## JMME (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm not any sort of training expert, but it seems like your frustration with her could set back her training. It can be easy to get frustrated but she is only a baby. If she forgets the next day, just keep working with her and reward her heavily every time she does get it. With Ripley, I did several short training sessions (no more than 15 mins at a time) several times and day and sometime I would get frustrated and so would he. Then I would just stop and try again later and overly praise him for doing it right. I'm not sure if that is what you guys have been doing, so sorry if its something you are already trying. I never punish Ripley by putting him in his crate or anything for not doing the tricks correctly either. Maybe taking her to classes will help too? I'm sure she will eventually get it! Classss might give you another way to approach training with her too that might make a huge difference!  she sure is adorable! Hope you guys can find something that works for all of you!


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## BaileyBear (Mar 27, 2013)

All you need to do is just look at her wee face, and think really how can I be mad with something SO BEAUTIFUL, calm down and take a step back. She probably in fact is extremely intelligent and realises that if I want to get alot of attention from mum and dad then ill just let on i dont know what they are trying to get me to do, therefore you spend more time with her, or maybe she is getting confused if you are both loosing the will with her and she doesn't know what she has done wrong to annoy her mum and dad. Any progress is still a progress, she now gets sit so just think on that positive. 


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Perhaps it isn't her smarts to question, to your training style that she just doesn't get. maybe your teaching in English, but she's hearing and seeing Vulcan. 

I think group classes or private lessons with a trainer should help. You can also try hand signals. Bear takes to hand signals like a fish to water but his English still stinks. The only English he knows is "bear" and "ugggghhhhh off!!!!" After he pounces on me. Also, if I am unclear about what I want, he gets confused. And will visibly struggle to make the right choice and if he is wrong, he gets frustrated. You can see it in his face and body language. So I have to take it down and notch and start over. 


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## solinvictus (Oct 23, 2008)

I am sorry things are not going the way you expected. Maybe you need to look at this through a different lens. Most goldens are pretty bright but maybe she has a learning disability and needs you to work in smaller increments per each behavior you want her to learn. Working 30 minutes at a time may be way to long for her to absorb the information you are attempting to teach. I would go so far as to besides taking smaller steps toward each behavior you want but also only training for 3 to 5 minutes at a time 3 or 4 times a day. She most likely feels both of your frustrations which most likely causes anxiety. When dogs are really anxious they really can't learn. She is also either in the teenage stage or going into it and they seem not to hear us clearly at this time and we need even extra patience.

She is beautiful. Try to find ways to make those 2 or 3 minutes of training fun like a game. 

And the suggestion to go into classes if your aren't in any now is a great idea. And if you are in classes maybe you need to find another trainer. The trainer can look at what you are doing and if you need tweeked they can help you. I wouldn't suggest your husband as he is to close to the situation and already frustrated too. You need new experienced eyes to see why what you are doing isn't working for you and Scarlett.

Good thoughts that you can resolve this.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

You've gotten some really good advice. Your girl is still a baby..... positive reenforcement and happy enjoyment with short training sessions can be key. Find a class that mirrors that and you will be surprised how she blossoms. The thought of rehoming her is alarming.... esp from one who is a trainer. Of course you know she's picking up on the negativity and frustration.... certainly not the environment to maximize learning. I would have to bet that this is most of the learning problem... not the puppy.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

1.) Aren't half hour formal training sessions a little long for this age? Especially if she is still not grasping the basics? I thought you only upped the time like that after you could be sure they wouldn't get too frustrated. 

2.) What kind of training are you doing? No one can help you think outside of the box if you don't share what you're currently doing.

3.) She's not dumb, there is just an entire species barrier. Just because she's struggling to understand english doesn't mean she isn't gifted in other ways.


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## Kasey'sLuckyMama (Mar 18, 2006)

JMME, you were probably the most helpful.

I am not ignorant, I know how to train dogs, and Scarlett is NOT my first golden. I didn't get Scarlett to take "the easy way out". I've tried everything when it comes to her, short 5 minute sessions, longer 15 minute sessions, running her first, working with her rested, treats, clicker, positive reinforcement.
I don't try all the tricks in my original post at one time.. Im not an idiot, people. I have tried various ones at different times over the last few months. 
My seven month old daughter learns things faster than Scarlett does. 

No, I cant afford a trainer or classes. I quit my job when I had my daughter, so im not rolling in the dough anymore. (Not that I was beforehand, but it was definitely a lot easier). So Im sorry if that doesn't suit you guys, but hell, I didn't ASK for Scarlett. A friend of mine got her for me a few weeks after Kasey passed away. 

I have NEVER worked with a dog that doesn't respond to training of any kind. 
The ONLY thing she has going for her, is she is gentle with the baby. 

Im frustrated. I don't believe in "giving " a dog away, especially when you bring them into your lives. Yes, my husband trained dogs for the state, I trained for several rescue organizations, plus 8 dogs that live with my grandparents. Personally, I wouldn't have gotten Scarlett if I had seen her before my friend had gotten her for me. She just doesn't have what I would have looked for in a dog .. not that I don't love her, but dang its frustrating when she doesn't respond to anything at all. I try praise, she does EXACTLY what she shouldn't. You try treats, she doesn't respond at all to what you ask. I try ignoring the bad behavior and praising the good. 

apparently, im guessing I shouldn't own a golden retriever anymore according to some peoples thoughts here. NOT what I was going for. But hey


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## Kasey'sLuckyMama (Mar 18, 2006)

BaileyBear said:


> All you need to do is just look at her wee face, and think really how can I be mad with something SO BEAUTIFUL, calm down and take a step back. She probably in fact is extremely intelligent and realises that if I want to get alot of attention from mum and dad then ill just let on i dont know what they are trying to get me to do, therefore you spend more time with her, or maybe she is getting confused if you are both loosing the will with her and she doesn't know what she has done wrong to annoy her mum and dad. Any progress is still a progress, she now gets sit so just think on that positive.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


probably right. She is super smart in some ways, but others, its like shes completely clueless. Like her learning "gentle" around the baby. But then she will still run right over and sit on top of her..its like *** .
She seems to take one step forward and three steps back.
Constantly.

she has good days, and then 3 bad weeks.
:doh:


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Again. 

I'm sorry to be direct, but keep in mind you did not raise a golden puppy before. There's a lot of training that goes into these dogs. Every dog is different, but I do think that when people get all hysterical and defensive, they do not recognize the mess they are causing with their dogs. 

You have to get that addressed first. 

My Bertie is a couple weeks younger than your dog. I've posted on the training threads that egad, he's harder headed than Jacks. This means he isn't as easy as I would have hoped. 

But it comes down to changing how I train him as opposed to how I trained Jacks. 

You have to put your ego away and just be a bit more easy tempered and carry a good sense of humor with these dogs. 

When I see people venting the way you just had - I think they have to consider what may be best for the dog, if they are actually incapable of patience and kindness in their training and approach to the dog. I think it is good to remind people that their emotions do affect the dogs too.

And young dogs need to be on leash around babies who aren't walking solid on their feet yet.


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## Marlee&Me (Apr 12, 2013)

Patience. Some dogs, like my yorkie are really tough to train. They have certain genetics at play that make it difficult for them to focus and remember. My little guy is bright when it comes to certain things like fetch, but he loses his mind when we are outside and he sees something interesting to bark or chase. We've been working on this for 10 years. He will never be a quiet dog, but it's ok. He is who he is. 

Now, I think your doggy might suffer from youth and too much training on one big chunk of time. I have noticed my dogs prefer short training sessions done several times a day. We tend to have a no stress session and if she doesn't get it in like 5 minutes, I just end it with a play session like tugofwar or fetch, then try again in an hour or two. Then I just repeat the same lesson a few times that day. I also try to end it on a positive note. Even if she didn't get what I was trying to accomplish, I end it on something I know she can do to please me. I want to set her up for success not failure. 

I think she sees our training sessions as play and actually looks forward to them. As for remembering the lessons, I think it's easier for her to remember the lesson when it's done constantly throughout the day and throughout the week. Maybe my expectations are low because she is a rescue with very minimal training and life experiences, but sometimes low expectations are a good thing. It causes less frustration because I don't expect her to be as smart as my dog trainers golden's. Sometimes I'm just happy that she is paying attention to my face and not my treats or is willing to be calm in the house. I treat her when she is laying around or just keeping herself quietly entertained. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, maybe lower your expectations and don't compare her to other dogs, and keep your lessons short and repeat them often everyday.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

Try not to take offense. People on here want the best for dogs and whether you meant it to or not your frustration came through as giving up and passing on the problem to someone else. She is as adorable as they come. Have you tried clicker training? Maybe your frustration is interfering or maybe she just won't be a bright bulb, but I don't think that's the case. There are several great videos on kikopup that may show different methods. Try something different for a while and good luck. Few puppies were worse than Tayla. I have pictures to prove it.


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## Kasey'sLuckyMama (Mar 18, 2006)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> You've gotten some really good advice. Your girl is still a baby..... positive reenforcement and happy enjoyment with short training sessions can be key. Find a class that mirrors that and you will be surprised how she blossoms. The thought of rehoming her is alarming.... esp from one who is a trainer. Of course you know she's picking up on the negativity and frustration.... certainly not the environment to maximize learning. I would have to bet that this is most of the learning problem... not the puppy.


I don't want to rehome her.. My husband is getting to that point. Hes not emotionally attached to her, (neither am I in some ways, but am in others if that makes sense). He holds it against me that my friend even got her for me, when we are going through tough times financially (and im not due to go back to work for another 7 months). He makes the decisions. Not me. 

I tried traditional treats/praise, no avail usually. Then tried hand signals, clickers. Nothing.. she only responds by doing what she wants to.  im tempted to just give up and wait til she grows up a little bit. But I know that's NOT the way to do it either.


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## Kasey'sLuckyMama (Mar 18, 2006)

Taylas mom, can you post a link?

I am willing to try new things  I've never had a dog who didn't respond to the methods im used to. I am going to retry some clicker stuff starting next week, because she does like noises and squeaks.. so maybe there may be help there.


we both do love Scarlett.. we're just SUPER frustrated.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I read your response and I really feel for your poor puppy.


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## Ylan's Mom (May 14, 2013)

You have brought a smile to my face!, No offense....in fact I completely understand. My fur angel walked the Rainbow Bridge 3 weeks ago and I have not been too joyful but your story reminds me of Ylan as a puppy. Be patient, patient, patient....they are smart and will get it. If you do find it frustrating, a trainer might be helpful. One last thing, regardless of the years my girl always carried a puppy heart. I don't know it this helps but it is a joy. Good luck with training and keep posting.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

I understand $$$$ being tight. Perhaps there is an all breed obedience club nearby? The SD all-breed obedience club is relatively cheap at $40ish a month compared to private group classes which are $200ish for 6 weeks. 


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## Marlee&Me (Apr 12, 2013)

I'm just curious, have you ever worked on getting her to just watch you? Like reward her for every time she looks at you instead of something else? Maybe she has difficulty focusing on you and is overwhelmed by her environment?


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

Have you tried wandering a bit outside of the usual training tactics? I have a husky mix and if you have had any experience with northern breeds, you will know they do not do a single thing unless there is something in it for them, haha! Some dogs just need a little more creativity, I think. Is she motivated by toys or any other non-traditional activity? Rolling around on the ground with you? Getting to go sniff bushes? I'm just wondering if maybe she hasn't had that "AHA! Learning gets me neat things!" moment if the rewards you've used in the past aren't really her "thing".

Could you try incorporating training into day to day life instead of specific training sessions? Getting her to do a simple "watch me!" before a meal, sitting at the front door before you open it up for a walk, laying politely outside of the kitchen while you cook dinner, etc? 

How long do you try a technique before moving on to something else? She may just need longer to see the patterns for some reason


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

I just read through this, and honestly, it doesn't come across that you're at all emotionally attached to her. It sounds like you're just annoyed with her and frustrated, and really not all that thrilled with her. Sorry to sound harsh, but it might be the best if you DID give up on her and give her to someone else.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

I just wanted to mention, an 8 month puppy can't be expected to be consistently gentle with a baby, because they are still babies too.

I think what I'm hearing is you have a new baby, and you have a new puppy, at the same time. That would overwhelm anyone. 

I know you said you don't have money for training classes, but I really encourage you to check around and see if you can find one you could afford. It would really help.


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## Tayla's Mom (Apr 20, 2012)

Kasey'sLuckyMama said:


> Taylas mom, can you post a link?
> 
> I am willing to try new things  I've never had a dog who didn't respond to the methods im used to. I am going to retry some clicker stuff starting next week, because she does like noises and squeaks.. so maybe there may be help there.
> 
> ...



Here is a link to several kikopup videos. Free Video List | Dogmantics Dog Training Tayla has a problem with learning more difficult things. She gets very frustrated and reverts back to being bitey. We nip that in the bud right away. That was a major issue with her from 4 months when we got her to 11.75 months and yes I was counting.


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## cgriffin (Nov 30, 2011)

I don't claim to be an expert, but actually it sounds to me like neither your nor your husband are attached to the pup and I don't believe that you love her. JMO

I think your resentment of her is not helping matters and I think the pup feels your resentment. 

Sorry to be harsh, but I think that poor baby is better off with somebody else.


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Sorry but I don't sense a lot of 'love' happening here. If you 'didn't ask for her' but feel obligated to keep her, wouldn't have taken her if you had been given the choice, are frustrated with her, and don't have the time and patience for her - she will know it without a doubt and it would be very difficult for her to learn anything under those very stressful conditions.
She came to you with nothing to offer but the greatest gift of all, the unconditional love of a dog, she asks nothing but to be loved, and respected for who she is - she deserves that much. 
If you are going to keep her - open your heart and let her in, your husband too - give her the unconditional love she deserves - if you can't do that, perhaps, it would be in her best interests to have a chance at a life with someone who can.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Charliethree said:


> Sorry but I don't sense a lot of 'love' happening here. If you 'didn't ask for her' but feel obligated to keep her, wouldn't have taken her if you had been given the choice, are frustrated with her, and don't have the time and patience for her - she will know it without a doubt and it would be very difficult for her to learn anything under those very stressful conditions.
> She came to you with nothing to offer but the greatest gift of all, the unconditional love of a dog, she asks nothing but to be loved, and respected for who she is - she deserves that much.
> If you are going to keep her - open your heart and let her in, your husband too - give her the unconditional love she deserves - if you can't do that, perhaps, it would be in her best interests to have a chance at a life with someone who can.


You're original post, and your subsequent ones make me sad for the puppy. I share Charliethree's feelings. Perhaps it would be best to find her a home with someone who really wants her, actively and deliberately chooses her.


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Kasey'sLuckyMama said:


> But then she will still run right over and sit on top of her..its like ***


IMO, your dog and baby should never be in a position together for the baby to be able to be sat on by the dog in the first place...especially an unpredictable 8 month old puppy. I know that everyone does things differently, but it just seems like a possible disaster waiting to happen...


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

kwhit said:


> IMO, your dog and baby should never be in a position together for the baby to be able to be sat on by the dog in the first place...especially an unpredictable 8 month old puppy. I know that everyone does things differently, but it just seems like a possible disaster waiting to happen...


And when it does happen, as it inevitably will, that will be one more strike against the poor dog who was never wanted in the first place.


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## quilter (Sep 12, 2011)

I'm not clear if the problem is that your pup has lousy house manners or that your pup won't be an obedience champ. So not sure what needs fixing.


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## sineadleaf (Mar 17, 2013)

I agree with most of what's written. BUT I know how frusterating it can be. You try and try and try and put all this time and effort in and follow the rule book to a T- and it seems like you go backwards. But please dont give up. As mentioned, they're still a baby. If she's not hurting anyone (only feelings) then who cares if shes behind! Stick with it, take breaks. She can sence your anger and probably feels terrible. Good luck!


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## ashleylp (Jul 23, 2011)

When I got Remy I had a very hard time bonding with him. I would get frustrated when he didn't understand something and he spent a lot of time in the crate. 

I think that what you really need is some bonding time with her. Go out for hikes, take her to the park, sit back and watch her with your baby (safety first, of course)... things that will make you love her. I bonded strongly with Remy when I realized just how dependent he was on me. When he started running to me for support when he got nervous, I fell in love.

Training is based off of three main things... timing, motivation, and consistency. There must be a disconnect somewhere in there. Maybe you haven't found the perfect motivation for her. For example, Remy loves tennis balls but if I am teaching him something new I have to use treats because he can't learn when a ball is around, he is too focused on the ball. Just because she loves it doesn't mean it's the best training tool. If you have found a good motivator, start paying close attention to your timing and consistency. Having a baby and a puppy can be really overwhelming... are you allowing her to get away with little things here and there?


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## goldensrbest (Dec 20, 2007)

Perhaps one of the problems is, that you did not pick her out, the friend did, and she does not have the look you would prefer, your other golden you had,did. I know when Cambridge came, we got her from oregan, she was not the look, I had had before, I was use to fluffy puppies, even my other red golden I had years ago,was more fluffy than Cambridge was, it took a long time to bond with her, I thought of giving her up,for many reasons, not just this, but I did not ,and am so very glad I did not.


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## Barkr (Dec 23, 2011)

We had a golden that was what we considered brain damaged. We received him from friends who purchased him and lost interest when they realized his disability. He was extremely difficult to to train but so loveable. He was "Special Needs" and we treated him as such. There was frustration a plenty and he never excelled at anything but sweetness and joy. Our friends are good people but could not get passed the limitations of this dog and gave him to us.


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## OwnedByChance (May 11, 2013)

I think it's very easy for people to tell you to give her up... But to me you just sound frustrated, tired and like you're lacking support from your Husband in this.

She's not a stupid dog, you're not a bad person either. She'll be picking up on your frustration though and I bet that's making things a LOT worse.

Try going right back to basics with her. As if you'd first got her home. Spend five minutes maybe 4 times a day just going through the basic training commands. Sit, Lie, Down, Stay, Drop etc. Reward her with either treats or fuss when she does something right and ignore it when she does something wrong. She's still only young and you were grieving when she came along and probably not at a stage where you could really focus on a new puppy properly. I bet if you take her right back to the start again you'll get her sorted.

Take a deep breath. Tell your hubby he's a jackass and needs to support you through this. And start again. She'll get it, and so will you.


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## Gold Digger (Sep 19, 2012)

Maybe she isn't food driven?? If she is, maybe use treats she can't resist. I always found that helped when I was training mine. He responded kind of eh to kibble but when I boiled chicken and gave him little bits he would do ANYTHING!

Good luck!


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

I don't think it's easy for people to say to give up a dog, but when we read the comments by the op and get a sense of her attitude about this puppy, then my concern is for the dog, not for the person who might feel bad about admitting she doesn't like or want the dog.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

laprincessa said:


> I don't think it's easy for people to say to give up a dog, but when we read the comments by the op and get a sense of her attitude about this puppy, then my concern is for the dog, not for the person who might feel bad about admitting she doesn't like or want the dog.


I totally agree. There are people on this forum right now with broken hearts after losing a dog and to see a new member come on and refer to her dog as dumber than a doorknob or a box of rocks just doesn't sit well. Those that are aching for their beloved and cherished pet would give anything to see them again...then to read someone insulting their puppy...


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

The OP came here asking for help, please keep this in mind when posting comments. 

This is an opportunity to help a member, to provide a good constructive discussion with helpful suggestions without passing judgement.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Calling dogs dumb as rocks or whatever - is fine. 

My brother-in-law has a very low opinion of golden retrievers (he's a cat person). He's a cartoonist/artist and has always shown their "stupidity" when he draws them. But calling them names and poking fun of them is not the same thing as getting angry at them. 

Whenever I perceive the type of anger that leads to people hauling dogs outside or "their room" to punish them... or yelling at them... or any kind of taking it out on the dogs, that freaks me out. 

I'm not saying the OP does any of that, but I did perceive anger in her tone. When it comes to frustration about asking a dog to *learn something in a single day* - it does cause me to tense up and it's why I do take a harsh tone and suggest that if they can't put their ego aside and change their expectations - then rehoming the dog will be best for the dog.

It reminds me of this time my sister saw an old man repeatedly yanking in place their golden retriever and yelling at the dog while walking past a café where she was eating lunch - because the dog was not paying attention. My sister got hysterical when she saw that - because that was abuse, not training. I'm sure a lot of the negative views of choke chains and "aversives" in training is based on other people seeing somebody taking their anger and frustration out on their dogs for not learning fast enough.

Again, I'm not saying the OP does any of that, and I'm sure she loves her dog.... but before any frustration leads to a fraction of that, adjusting training and lowering expectations (remembering that they have a teenaged pup who needs to be trained kindly every single darn day) - this will make a huge difference. Try not to set a dog up for failure by allowing that dog to make mistakes - like jumping on the baby or grabbing things left in her reach. Be reasonable.


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## Ksdenton (Mar 17, 2013)

All dogs are different and she may be more of a challenge to train than what you're use to. I met a man who fell in love with GRs because when he met his wife she had one that competed at obedience and he found her so amazing and intelligent. When she passed away they decided to get another and he said that dog was dumber than a box of rocks. Now I'm sure the next dog had quite a lot to live up to following the one who passed away and maybe that's where you are. 
I think you have a lot going against you and the dog. First is you have a young baby and she's at a stage where she's requiring a lot more attention as she's becoming more mobile. That's tough to juggle a new puppy and baby at the same time. 
Second, you can't expect this puppy to be anything like your last dog or any dog for that matter. Drop all expectations. Just be in the moment and accept that place to move forward with. She can't become another dog for you but you can learn to enjoy who she is. 
Third is that you really haven't bonded with the puppy. You've cared for her and you don't want anything bad to happen to her but you haven't bonded with her. This will require continued work by you. Time. Lots of time and attention. I understand she's not what you wanted or would have picked but she's still a dog and will likely grow into everything you could ask for. I've heard so many people talk about the bad, horrible puppy turning into the best dog ever. Give her a chance. 
You have a big hill to climb. You've got to overcome yourself first. Drop the expectations, carve out several sessions a day with her even if its just play time to connect. Look at this as a challenge and how to overcome it. Think outside the box. Use everything as training. Saying her name to get her to look at you (treat). Waiting at the doorways (treat). Random sits (treat). Just little things she can easily accomplish and build her confidence as well as yours. Don't expect too much of her. Honestly don't expect anything but accept the small victories. I get that you didn't want her or wouldn't have picked her but that's over now because she's yours and you are hers. 
Honestly, this is probably good parenting practice for you too. Our kids aren't what we expected but they are who they are and will become. I can promise you one day your daughter will make you question your ability to be a parent and make you want to bang your head against the wall. 
Try, try, and try again. 
If it just won't work out then maybe you have to rehome her. That should be a last resort though and sounds like it is for you too. Honestly, I feel for you. 


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

As I have said, when my two kids were both under two years, I got Laney. She was a handful.. It was very very difficult. The only thing that saved her was my dog trainer friend. A baby and a pup can be overwhelming. And remember, dogs do not generalize. Soo if she knows how to sit in your kitchen, she might not know how to sit in your living room. It does take time and patience. When I got Laney, I also had my perfect Sally. I thought all Goldens were as easy to train as Sally was. I basically had to ask Sally once to do something and then she did it again and again. My current pup, a homebred, is a handful. Quite frankly if my kids were young, she would be really hard to own... She is very smart, but requires a to of attention. And when she isn't getting enough attention, she finds ways to get even my negative attention. You really should get her into an obedience school to do her justice. We have schools around here that are inexpensive.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

I can't imagine raising a human baby and a furbaby at the same time. I can totally understand the frustration.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Wyatt's mommy said:


> I can't imagine raising a human baby and a furbaby at the same time. I can totally understand the frustration.


It is too much for the average person, you really have to have patience and be organized and disciplined or the dog will get the short end of the stick.


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

This post makes me angry. Maybe neither your nor your husband's methods will work with this puppy. Find other methods. 

Online, through books, YouTube videos etc There is a wealth of information out there - free!! 

Or go to classes - you probably have things you can give up to get the $20/week or so needed - coffee? soda? bottled water? junk food? fast food? connectivity devices? landline and cell phones? Heck, maybe chicken nuggets!

Or rehome her if you do not have the time or patience.





Kasey'sLuckyMama said:


> Its kind of embarrassing to even have to vent about anything, when I should be grateful for Scarlett's presence.
> However, she is dumber than a doorknob, a box of rocks, a shoe with no lace, and missing all the chicken nuggets in her happy meal. For real!
> 
> I know, I know. She's a puppy. She needs training. However, it doesn't matter how much I try to work with her, she simply doesn't understand. She doesn't get it. I want to spend more time doing :doh: til my :bowl:
> ...


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## Ksdenton (Mar 17, 2013)

nolefan said:


> It is too much for the average person, you really have to have patience and be organized and disciplined or the dog will get the short end of the stick.


I believe it can be too much for anyone depending on the child and the puppy. If you have a difficult child and a difficult puppy I think that can be too much for anyone. Not just the average person. I have twins and we have said when they were toddlers that if we only had the first born we would have believed we were the best parents and not understood why people find it so difficult and if we only had the second born we would have believed we were the worst parents and should never have another child. Two kids, raised at same time by same parents both with totally different personalities. 
Not saying that raising a puppy at same time as an infant can't be done but it's a difficult situation. Let's not make light of it. 
Ask for help. Check local animal control offices and humane societies because they sometimes offer classes for free or a very small fee. Ask a close friend or family member to watch the baby so you can devote time solely to the puppy. 


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## dezymond (May 3, 2012)

I'm not one to tell anyone how to spend their money or how to train their dog, but it doesn't seem that anyone in the family is completely happy with the dog. You seem extremely stressed and just about had enough, not a healthy environment for anyone or dog to be in. 

I'm not trying to sway you into a decision, but sometimes the partnership between a dog and a human doesn't work. Your friend meant well when giving her to you, but I don't think your friend thought about how much giving you a puppy would effect your life, especially with a baby and no work. I know you don't want to give her away, but I just have to say I've seen happy endings for both parties before after a new home was found for the dog. 

Whatever you decide, good luck.


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## BaileyBear (Mar 27, 2013)

Kasey'sLuckyMama said:


> probably right. She is super smart in some ways, but others, its like shes completely clueless. Like her learning "gentle" around the baby. But then she will still run right over and sit on top of her..its like *** .
> She seems to take one step forward and three steps back.
> Constantly.
> 
> ...


I can understand it is frustrating especially learning to play nice with baby. We have no children so when we got our princess she got all our attention and Bailey went from strength to strength, don't get me wrong although she was very well trained in the house or out and about the parks countryside etc when we where on our own, but as soon as we had visitors or met someone new man she was HYPER!! But we noticed a huge change as she got older and at 25months she is settled now and so so so so so gentle. I know that doesn't really help you now but they are defo worth the effort. I would say start training her now when he's eating put our hand in his dish and pet and fuss round him, so that when baby is crawling and poking and pulling him he'll not be one bit bothered. We did this from word go, even now if you where to give her steak and put our hand or finger in her mouth she will stop chewing straight away. 

Her is our pride and joy, Bailey










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## Seagodess (Dec 6, 2012)

Kasey'sLuckyMama said:


> JMME, you were probably the most helpful.
> 
> I am not ignorant, I know how to train dogs, and Scarlett is NOT my first golden. I didn't get Scarlett to take "the easy way out". I've tried everything when it comes to her, short 5 minute sessions, longer 15 minute sessions, running her first, working with her rested, treats, clicker, positive reinforcement.
> I don't try all the tricks in my original post at one time.. Im not an idiot, people. I have tried various ones at different times over the last few months.
> ...


 Unlike everyone elses response, I feel sorry for YOU. I have had a dumb dog and ended up rehoming him. Its hard to do, but after 3 years I couldn't take it anymore. Others have said that you are not attached to her, so you should give her up. I'm sorry, but for me it is hard to get attached to a animal that doesn't listen and is so frustrating. 

I dont think you should give up yet. She is still a puppy and from what I understand it takes a very long time to train some dogs. I'm sure its even harder with a baby. Heck I have a hard time with my 6yr old son. They are always fighting for my time. Do you train her when there are no other distractions? Maybe while your daughter is sleeping. Do you just say the commands or do you use hand signals or what? With Milla sometimes I have to physically make her do what I want. When I say sit, she doesn't always do it right away, so I give her butt a little push, then give her a treat. Same with laydown. She doesn't know laydown unless she is sitting. If she doesn't do it, I pull her front paws out to to force her (dont freak out people, I'm not yanking on her or anything) then I treat her. Maybe when she does something on her own without you telling her, praise her. For example with Milla sometimes she will sit BEFORE I get a chance to tell her. So I say "good sit" and praise/treat her. Maybe try working on only one command for a week or something until she gets it down. Do a few short sessions a day with only that command. Is it possible she doesn't like the treats your using? Maybe try something else that she would just love and do anything for.
I am by far NO expert on these things. I'm only on my 2nd dog, first golden. So these are just some suggestions. I really hope you are able to make some progress with her.
Also, not to stick my nose where it doesn't belong... but I dont think its right for your husband to call all the shots. This is something that needs to be jointly decided on together. You said your friend gave you this dog, so this is YOUR dog. If he doesn't want to try training her, thats fine, but getting rid of her is not a decision he should be making on his own.
Good luck with everything.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

As a breeder, I never allow my dogs to be purchased as gifts... I made one exception. To clients of mine... They lost their golden and the wife approached me about giving her husband a gift of one of my pups. I have known them for 27 years...and know now they feel about their pets. Turned out to be the best birthday present! But I also have in my contract that the pup must be returned to me if for any reason it does not work out... 

Kids and dogs are tough... When I got my energetic Laney, my older son had not yet been diagnosed with autism. As I sit here writing this on my lunch hour at home with the dogs, the pup just counter surfed a dish towel to get my attention. A smart dog is not necessarily a good thing...


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## ds's (May 10, 2013)

Please don't re-home her before you try all other avenues. I know it can be tough training a puppy. But not all dogs respond to the same type of training. Maybe you can consult a trainer who uses a different technique? Also, I agree with some other posters out there, punishment is not going to help and can only hurt. Putting her "in her room" might be sending the wrong message and makes her less willing to learn.


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## drofen (Feb 2, 2013)

This thread makes me sad.

It makes me sad for dog. 

And it makes me sad the way people are treating each other.

Wondering if anyone really thinks "yelling" at the OP will help solve this problem!?

I've written this post 6 different ways over the past 3 hours and I still pretty sure I didn't say the right thing.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

Never mind


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## coaraujo (Nov 2, 2012)

Regardless of whether or not this dog is actually "as dumb as rocks" or a slow learner, or the OP's training methods just don't work with this pup. When it comes down to it, *this dog only has a short 10 or so years on this earth. It deserves to be loved unconditionally for every minute of its life*. To the OP, if you can't give this to the dog, then there are million other families who would kill to get a chance with this dog. Its not wrong or bad if you can't, life is hard and busy especially with a newborn. But when it comes down to it, dogs have short fleeting lives and they deserve to given the best we can offer during those years. To someone this dog could be their everything and that's what this puppy deserves. Its not an easy decision, but sometimes the right decision is the hardest decision. If you do decide to rehome her, you're not giving up, you're giving her a second chance at a better life.


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## Mirinde (Jun 8, 2011)

Yeah, I'm a little surprised at the pile on. For a forum so eager to discuss training topics, this thread should be bursting with suggestions and ideas and resources. We just had a 20+ thread on the benefits of positive training. Where are those ideas? The time and place for a pile on is after that's been done and if the OP comes back with "Welp I didn't feel like trying any of that so we rehomed her!". 

Right now I'm hearing a new mom with a cantankerous husband trying to train a dog that needs a little something extra and she doesn't have that extra to give and is (inappropriately) directing that frustration on the dog because we are human, and it was probably not the right time to have a puppy in the home. Some of us are not born with saint like patience with our dogs (I'm one of those people that will lose my cool in .2 seconds with children but can deal with a rowdy dog for hours on end and be sweet as sugar, I can imagine plenty of people are reversed!). Is the dog getting the best end of the stick right now? Definitely not. Is piling on the OP going to suddenly fill her with the strength and wisdom to approach this from a new perspective and handle her sweet girl any better? Probably not. If anything, it's going to land this girl in a shelter or a rescue because we've all just confirmed for the OP that she is an awful owner and why bother. 

As owners, we know how important it is to be firm but GENTLE. This applies to humans too. 

OP, there are few posters with some good training suggestions. Please try to sift through and pick those out. Everyone is correct in saying that your attitude about this girl is most likely contributing to the disconnect in training, but I don't think getting berated is going to help your attitude much.

Edited to add: I think the puppy might be better off being rehomed if this snippet of frustration from the OP is really an honest reflection of the puppy's day to day life. But these responses were not the gentle nudge in the "It's okay if you can't do this, here are some resources for rescues" direction. It was "you are failing at this, I feel sorry for your dog, maybe she would be better off without you", and I think everyone knows there's a difference.


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## Seagodess (Dec 6, 2012)

Mirinde said:


> Yeah, I'm a little surprised at the pile on. For a forum so eager to discuss training topics, this thread should be bursting with suggestions and ideas and resources. We just had a 20+ thread on the benefits of positive training. Where are those ideas? The time and place for a pile on is after that's been done and if the OP comes back with "Welp I didn't feel like trying any of that so we rehomed her!".
> 
> Right now I'm hearing a new mom with a cantankerous husband trying to train a dog that needs a little something extra and she doesn't have that extra to give and is (inappropriately) directing that frustration on the dog because we are human, and it was probably not the right time to have a puppy in the home. Some of us are not born with saint like patience with our dogs (I'm one of those people that will lose my cool in .2 seconds with children but can deal with a rowdy dog for hours on end and be sweet as sugar, I can imagine plenty of people are reversed!). Is the dog getting the best end of the stick right now? Definitely not. Is piling on the OP going to suddenly fill her with the strength and wisdom to approach this from a new perspective and handle her sweet girl any better? Probably not. If anything, it's going to land this girl in a shelter or a rescue because we've all just confirmed for the OP that she is an awful owner and why bother.
> 
> ...


 You said this perfectly. I agree with you. People here always want to talk about positive training, yet as soon as a thread pops up that they dont like they stomp on and abuse the OP. This is the time for that positive training everyone is always preaching about.


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## DuggerA (Jan 17, 2013)

Training isn't something that happens only in sessions. It has to be a part of everyday life. You don't send a dog to it's room because it didn't grasp what you as a human thought it should. I have never met a dog that couldn't be trained. There are many ways to train a dog, if one approach doesn't work you should try a new one. Maybe she can't hear you. Have you had her hearing checked? Maybe she can't see you well, have you had her eyes looked at. Maybe she can sense your tension. How often do you just cuddle and love on her? Have you spoken with an animal behaviorist? Really, if you and your husband are both trainers these things are things that should have been done at the beginning when you started having problems. I think if you worked on the person and dog bond you would get a big response. My dogs are a member of the family, their place in our home isn't in jeopardy if they don't learn their commands.


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## sdhgolden (Aug 13, 2012)

I'm not going to lie, if I got a puppy as a gift I would be pretty pissed. Getting a puppy is a big responsibility and to have that responsibility forced on you when you weren't ready is probably really hard. Getting a new puppy is a big decision and I bet it's a decision the OP would not have taken lightly. I have done a ton of research to find the right puppy to be our second dog. My first dog is from a BYB and I have since learned what I really want in a dog. (Like health clearances, a coat that actually repels water, parents that have the temperament and trainability that I need, etc.) 

And now you've got this big responsibility and you don't believe in giving up a dog I've you've brought them into your life. I feel the same way as you. I don't think I could give a dog away after bringing them into my life. 

I guess I don't really have any advice and I think you've already gotten a lot of it. I just wanted to say I can understand some of your frustration. That's why we vent right? To let off some steam and have others let us know we're not alone in our thinking and things will be ok. I know I feel SO much better after venting and then things don't seem quite as hard after I let it all out. I hope things start looking up for you and your pup! I'm sure she'll come around eventually. 


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

DuggerA said:


> Maybe she can't hear you. Have you had her hearing checked? Maybe she can't see you well, have you had her eyes looked at?


I never even thought of that!!! great suggestion!!



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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

You may have a pup who has intellectual shortcomings. Part of the well-bred Golden package is extreme biddability (that is easy to train, desire to please), but that biddable nature has to be carefully selected for when breeding. It can survive through a few generations of careless breeding because it was so strongly selected for in the foundation of the breed, that is say twenty years ago it was present in all Goldens so you didn't have to specifically breed for it. Enough time however has gone by and there are enough Goldens out there that lack biddability that they are producing less than trainable pups. Now it is something that has to be selected for. This is one reason why finding a breeder who competes is important

A friend of mine got a pup a few weeks ago and I was helping her find/vet breeders since she told me she wanted a dog who was intellligent like Selli. I pointed her to a friend who was breeding a litter who would be the equivalent of Selli's cousins and from parents who had major performance pedigrees. Unfortunately that breeder already had a long waiting list for the litter and was not putting anyone else on the list. My friend found her breeder at a show who breeds for conformation and she asked him about his dog's intelligence level. He let her know that a show Golden still needs to be smart and trainable or it would not succeed in the ring. He used the example of the training needed to teach a dog to self-stack and move a paw one inch to to correct position.

My point being that being successful in any type of competition requires a dog that is biddable and any breeder who participates in any dog sport competition needs to select for biddable dogs.

It is people who operate puppy mills or sometimes even small BYB who never work with a dog enough to KNOW how easy that dog is to train. They breed the dogs because they are registered and have operational reproductive organs.

There are also problems which can occur due to neglectful situations when the puppies are with the breeders. If they don't get the right stimulation and interactions with their mother, litter-mates or humans, it can keep the brain from developing as it needs to and leave the pup not knowing how to learn.

We have a dog park member who has a Golden who doesn't have a clue. His energy level and approach to the other dogs is manic and he doesn't learn from correction given by other dogs. His puppyhood is mostly a mystery, but his new owner does know he remained at his "breeder" until he was about 9 months old. Are his problems a result of bad genetics, lack of socialization or something else? We are trying to help his owner but he may wind up being banned from the park even though he has never been "aggressive."

All that being said, I think you need to make a choice as to whether you want to put the effort into living with this pup and her issues. I would think that you and your husband with your experience in training would be the best place for her to be and learn how to learn.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

I agree with most who say you are just pretty much overwhelmed at this time. Vent as much as you want. It is good to let it out. I am not surprised by some of these comments. Don't take it personally. There have been many many posts on here where people have said they wanted to throw in the towel with their puppy and they didn't even have small kids at home, let alone a baby. Golden puppies can be very trying at times. No matter where they came from. Believe me I am on my second one I know. 

They also can feed off your frustration, so be positive while training. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with putting him in time out when he gets out of control. All I can say is it will get better. Good luck!


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## OwnedByChance (May 11, 2013)

I just feel so much for you. I have seven children. Yes SEVEN. And do I consider myself an expert on how to raise children? Hell no! I still get frustrated, angry, I say things I don't really mean, and I cry and vent sometimes because I just don't think I can stand them anymore... And you know what?! Somehow (God only knows how!) I've ended up with SEVEN healthy, happy, well balanced, well behaved and well educated children. No idea how! LOL

My point is sometimes we need to scream, shout, vent and cry. Sometimes we NEED to say things we may not really mean. And sometimes we feel like giving up and running away to a distant island with a tropical beach where the cocktails are free and the men are young and gorgeous and flirty! LOL BUT somehow, we come out at the other end and actually it's OK. We did do a good job, even though sometimes we felt like giving up.

Sometimes on these forums people get so tangled up on the animals/pets/cats/dogs/whatever that they forget there's a HUMAN behind the screen who needs a kind word.

If you ever need to chat, feel free to PM me. I'm no expert, but I am all ears and have a good shoulder!


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## beemerdog (Dec 1, 2012)

*Scarlett is a beauty!!

Maybe she's wants to be a "Valley Girl". Like, you know, get by on her looks (with a California high school girl accent)?

I can understand getting frustrated from time to time. Venting on a forum is OK. Just don't let the "Negative Nellies get you down. 
*


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

The OP said in the original post that she had trained dogs before and that her husband had trained dogs for the State of Florida for three years. That says to me that she wasn't looking for training advice. Maybe I read it wrong, but what I was seeing was someone who did not want this dog to start with and is now feeling that she got stuck with a lemon on top of it. If I want training advice, I don't start out with "I've done this before, so it must be Max's fault," I start out with "what am I doing wrong that he isn't learning what I want him to learn, and do you have any suggestions for what I can do differently."


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## OwnedByChance (May 11, 2013)

Kasey'sLuckyMama said:


> just looking for some encouragement I suppose.


I don't know how much clearer she could have been.

I know I'm being quite vocal on this but I honestly think the OP has been attacked needlessly. She asked, outright, at the end of her very first post for some encouragement and all she got was shot down in flames. I thought this forum was supposed to be supportive, for the love of all goldens and their owners. That is not really what I've seen displayed in this particular thread.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

Plus the title of the thread said "venting". Sounds like she just needed an outlet for her frustration.


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## Altairss (Sep 7, 2012)

When I got Boots I had to dump just about everything I knew about training down the toliet and learn a whole new style. He just did not get me and I did not get him. Once I learned how he learned I could teach him anything and fast before that I seriously wondered if he was more special needs then just the needs of a seriously neglected dog. 
You are at a point where you feel you have no support at home to help no one to bounce your frustration off of as your husband has turned away from her. Chances are he feels since what he does doesn't work training wise that its better to give up. At this point you need to find your puppy, who she is what drives her, how she learns and what motivates her. It is likely something off the wall. My puppy does nothing unless something is in it for her now that we are on the same page that is changing but it was slow coming.
Boots taught me a valuable lession no matter how many dogs we train we don't really know jack. He taught me to think outside the box to try things that I never had to reach out for help and to be creative. Start small give yourself a break and although she is not the dog you picked she is the dog you have. Dogs end up in our lives for a reason find out what her reason is. Good luck


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## MissLady13 (Mar 5, 2013)

I applaud the posters on here who have demonstrated EMPATHY for the OP. Everybody at some point needs time to vent. If we are honest with ourselves we can probably all say we've had points in our lives where we were frustrated and overwhelmed and therefore not able to display an accurate representation of our intentions or character. I know I have and probably will be again at some point in my life. 

The difficulty that comes with an online forum is you loose ALL nonverbal cues that are vital to communication. Punctuation can demonstrate some expression but not much because we all have a different perspective on what it means. 93% of communication is nonverbal. The remaining 7% of communication is the actual words we use. So for us the judge things such as a person's tone based on written words is really just a projection of the emotions being triggered inside of ourselves. Each person reading this will have a different response emotionally and cognitively. How interesting it might be to clarify with the OP and say, "hey, I perceived your message this way, can you tell me if I got that right or not?" Had that happened I wonder how different this thread might look. As an experiment, visualize in your mind the OP delivering her message as angry and aggressive. Check in with your feelings/thoughts about that. Then visualize her tearful and stressed, heck maybe even sobbing. Now check in with your feelings/thoughts about THAT. I imagine most people had different reactions to each scenario. Different nonverbals trigger different emotional responses. When we can't see nonverbals it's important to check in about the message rather than assume. When we assume it often leads to conflict, anger, and misunderstandings (as seems to have been the case here).

To the OP, I don't have any helpful suggestions for you on the training front as I am a newbie. But I do understand frustration and I just want to validate it's ok to be frustrated. Hang in there and be kind to yourself.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Realistically, we had 40ish people respond. The majority of these posts have advice, encouragement and ideas to try. We all know what it's like to be pushed past our breaking point. To be completely stung out in exhaustion and frustration because NOTHING is working. We've all been there. Even if for a moment. I think we're all entitled to vent to the forum, but I also understand that getting rid of a dog is a huge button on the forum. 

Out of 40 posters, there were maybe 4-5 who didn't bring anything to the table. I understand why it feels like a pile-on, and I hope we didn't scare her off, but there was tons of great advice. 

I also know (firsthand) how frustrating it is to have tried everything, done your due diligence and still strangers question you over every single thing. Did you do this? Did you do that? How about here? How about there? 

Everyone showed empathy, most showed it to both the OP and the puppy. It is the Internet and you take thugs with a grain of salt. 

There is a thread called "parents of teenage pups" and I want to encourage you to read it (at least some because its almost a novel!). Everyone vents. Everyone has bad days, weeks, etc. 

I hope you take the advice given I regarding to training and what not.  


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Chiming in again. A comment was made to me a week ago or so when talking about my dogs - the beautiful and much loved dogs in my life.

This person, a very wise and kind soul, looked at me and my dogs at the obedience trial and said 

'That's right, you take in other people's rejects. You train them and you love them when other people have rejected them.'

I do and when a dog is not wanted and/or cannot be trained, it is much easier for those of us who take in these dogs if they are rehomed/given up before permanent damage is done to the dog. A truly hard decision if there is a bond, but we owe it to our dogs to hold their best interests at heart.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

"So my vent is, I know that she will *probably* mature and be more open to training when she hits about 2 years old. 
However, my husband is out of patience with her, and refuses to deal with her anymore, and I am myself getting to this point as well. He's ready to try and find a new home for her if things don't look up in her training aspect. I wouldn't give her up just yet..*but I don't run things in my house so..*

"I don't want to rehome her.. My husband is getting to that point. Hes not emotionally attached to her, (neither am I in some ways, but am in others if that makes sense). *He holds it against me that my friend even got her for me*, when *we are going through tough times financially* (and im not due to go back to work for another 7 months). *He makes the decisions. Not me.* "

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I couldn't put my finger on what was bothering me until I went back and re-read this thread from the beginning. I doubt we will get much more from the OP, but it certainly looks to me that there may be more going on here than we were told. I visited her page and KaseysLuckyMama is 24 years old, a stay at home mom who is not working right now with money stress, and has a puppy she is having trouble with, a 7 month old baby who is becoming more and more active and a husband who makes her feel like she doesn't have very much control of what happens in her own home. I am not getting a warm fuzzy about the husband....

I think we may need to slow down, it's hard when our push button phrases are used to begin with but we may need so try to read between the lines a bit more. (I have seen people come here before and call their Golden dumb and forum members get very upset, which I understand) It's not always obvious, but sometimes we need to be careful and think about the fact that there may be bigger problems underlying a family situation for a dog. That may need to be factored in when we give input... slow down.


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## Nairb (Feb 25, 2012)

She did a nice sit/stay for the photo, so there is that...

Nice smile too....


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

@Kristy - she sounds very young and over her head. Probably the reason why I responded as sharply as I had was because her response to what members like Dallas Gold and others had to say..... 




> I am not ignorant, I know how to train dogs, and Scarlett is NOT my first golden. I didn't get Scarlett to take "the easy way out". I've tried everything when it comes to her, short 5 minute sessions, longer 15 minute sessions, running her first, working with her rested, treats, clicker, positive reinforcement.
> I don't try all the tricks in my original post at one time.. Im not an idiot, people. I have tried various ones at different times over the last few months.
> My seven month old daughter learns things faster than Scarlett does.
> 
> ...


To me it sounds like this dog is not really wanted. Because I have an 8 month old too and was mentally imagining Bertie in a similar position.... it touched a nerve. 

It's easy to train other people's dogs, because those dogs go home at the end of the day. You don't have to live with them. You don't have to bond with them. Trying several different things over 8 months - again, that's not going to help. Because if you are constantly changing the game instead of sticking to the same one and really working with the dog, the dog just learns to tune out the owner. 

I suggested several times to get into dog classes. This is partly because stay-home trainers have no support group for training every week. There's no push to use a specific method and slowly build a foundation for all of the different things we expect our dogs to do and excel at - whether they are going into competition at some point in their lives, or if they are just going to be great family pets. 

One thing I do think that both owners (the OP and her husband) are experiencing right now is the shock of going from an older dog to suddenly having a puppy again. A puppy they didn't even want. 

I do still suggest finding a support group for training - whether that's going to classes or starting a training log and sticking to it. There are definitely people who do just fine training home alone, but I do think that when you do have a normal and active golden puppy who makes you feel like a failure when he/she doesn't show any signs of learning what you're trying to teach it.... you really need to be working with a program or somebody looking over your shoulder to make sure you do not make mistakes that can't be undone. 

If the OP and her husband have been training other people's dogs - I'm sure they would be giving the same advice to other people.

And fwiw.  

Tips for training each exercise:

Nipping/mouthing - needs both dog and trainer to learn something. When a dog mouths you - you have to be consistent and gentle/calm in your correction and removing the jaw and calming her down. For some dogs - like my Jacks - who mouth when excited, no matter how old they are - you have to learn the signs of the dog crossing that line. I know at first mouth that I can still calm him down and tell him to settle. If he gets too hyped up, it gets a lot tougher calming him down. Bertie has never mouthed us (just mouths his brother), so this has not been an issue. Some goldens are very mouthy and oral though. The advantage (I think) is they are natural retrievers and can easily be taught to fetch and carry things for you. 

Lay down - use treats to lure, reward that position, release. If you want your dog to learn how to settle, you have to pay attention and watch for those moments when she naturally goes to her own spot and lies down and relaxes. That's when you praise her and mark the "settle". Over time, you will have a good solid command to use to get her to go calm down. Until you do, use baby gates or put your baby in a play pen to keep the two seperate. 

Stay - again, you train the initial steps and make those solid. Over time you will expect more... but at first, you are looking for her to hold a position for 1-10 seconds. At which point you will mark and praise. 

Leave it - you can hold something in your hand near her face. IF she so much as looks at it, you will tell her "no, leave it". And I would have a hand on the collar to give her a tug away at the same time. When she's looking away without the tug, then you put the item on the edge of low table or on the floor. And you will walk her past on leash. If she looks at the item, you will again tell her "leave it" and tug her away. Over time the leash will go away and you can expect her to obey you when you just say "leave it". This is a VERY EASY thing to train dogs, but lots of people mess themselves up when they say "leave it" and then watch the dogs self-reward by grabbing the item. 

It takes consistent and continuous training all day and every day to get those behavioral "tricks" downpat (settle and no bite and leave it). And the other "tricks" take time as well. You will not train for a half hour today and expect the dog to perform tomorrow. You will be in training mode for a while. Since your dog is 8 months old, there will be a lot of "self-rewarded" things that you will have to undo. With kindness, patience, and consistency. 

^ I'm sure none of this is welcome, because it's been tried already etc.... and advice from thugs is just more bullying... or whatever. But there ya go.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Kate, I am not getting on to anyone, I just feel like it really may be best for this puppy to go to a Golden rescue who will get her into a home that will be a better fit for her. I am not a fan of a puppy being raised in the same household as an infant for all the reasons we usually discuss here, the dog never wins. It is a huge commitment to do it right and I don't think most people understand the challenges of a Golden puppy compared to many other breeds or mixes. This household sounds like there is a lot going on there.


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## CrazyZane (Jan 28, 2013)

Just my .02¢ but with the OP being so young and having a baby, both her and her husband need to be on-board. It might work w/ only her but the household will be stressed / tension etc. and what fun is that if you can't enjoy life with a new baby?? Believe me I know what the OP is going through. I have a 10month old son, a 7yr. old daughter and a Chessie. It takes a lot of patience to have a puppy and a baby in the same house. Without my wife being on-board there's NO WAY I would've made it this far w/ Zane.

Good luck.


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

Thank you, Kristy. I was responding to the very things you pointed out - and if it came off as critical, I apologize for that. I didn't see anywhere that the OP wanted training advice, she point blank said she knew what she was doing - she just doesn't seem to want this puppy or to have the time to invest in this puppy right now. It would be very hard to find the time to do something that isn't always easy to start with, if you don't want to do it anyway!
The puppy still has a chance to turn out well, if someone who really wants her takes her. And the OP can, down the road, find the puppy SHE wants, and not one someone else thought she should have.


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Susan, I came to this one late, so the OP getting defensive didn't get to me... I think it just occurred to me that this situation is sad for the dog but equally heartbreaking to have a young woman admit to us that her home is a situation where her husband has all the power and makes the decisions. A partnership like what Rich is describing below is the ideal situation to raise children and dogs, have a family. Not one where a woman says her husband holds it against her that this puppy was given to them. I don't know... it just all makes me sad and the news today isn't really helping... maybe I need to kiss my pups and my kids and be thankful that they are all sleeping safe and sound under my roof and thank my lucky stars that I have a husband who adores me and treats me like a partner coming home tomorrow night and just go to bed and start over tomorrow....

BTW, Rich, your attitude is refreshing, I hope you remember to tell your wife what a star she is  



RichsRetriever said:


> Just my .02¢ but with the OP being so young and having a baby, both her and her husband need to be on-board. It might work w/ only her but the household will be stressed / tension etc. and what fun is that if you can't enjoy life with a new baby?? Believe me I know what the OP is going through. I have a 10month old son, a 7yr. old daughter and a Chessie. It takes a lot of patience to have a puppy and a baby in the same house. Without my wife being on-board there's NO WAY I would've made it this far w/ Zane.
> 
> Good luck.


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## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

Or it could mean she is just having a bad day! Good grief! Let's not try to pick her post apart. People get overwhelmed from time to time. I can't tell how many times I questioned myself when Wyatt was going thru his bratty teenage phase. If you heard what I was thinking you would had analyzed me all wrong. Give her a break.


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## DuggerA (Jan 17, 2013)

What kind of response did she( the op) think she was going to get when she posted so negatively about her dog. It truly sounds like she can't handle her dog. That really makes us dog lovers get our hackles raised. No matter how she meant it, it was a loaded post that got a loaded response.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I think it's time for the thread to die and go to thread heaven in the archives. The OP hasn't been back in a while and at this point we are just hashing her intent and motives over and over.


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