# It's not obsessive, just train them!



## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

Thank you for this very informative post.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

Rob, just to chime in and agree, my college roommate is a psychiatrist who treats human OCD. She deals with humans who, when stressed, swallow objects (especially metal ones) or cut their own arms etc. It is a very difficult disorder to treat even in humans who have language.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I was going to post another thread, but am greatful you did... OCD disorders are not black and white. Neither are crate training issues.. So are issues to not crate train...


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Not so easy to fix a dog to not swallow something .... Or chase something, etc..


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Thank you for the post! My girl suffers from bouts of pica that stem from what I can best call digestive episodes (lick fits..I've posted her issues previously on the forum) that the vets to include specialists have not been able to resolve. She's been to a neurologist as well as internists at Auburn University--I nearly lost her after complications stemming from exploratory surgery. Her's clearly isn't a issue that can be "trained away". Thankfully the episodes aren't frequent and all but one time I've been home to manage her environment which includes crating for her safety.


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## Bentleysmom (Aug 11, 2012)

This is an interesting topic. I actually didn't even know that dogs can get this but it makes sense. Do they know what causes it? Are they born with it or is it developed? Thanks for starting this thread. I enjoy learning new things.


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## Jessie'sGirl (Aug 30, 2010)

Ljilly28 said:


> Rob, just to chime in and agree, my college roommate is a psychiatrist who treats human OCD. She deals with humans who, when stressed, swallow objects (especially metal ones) or cut their own arms etc. It is a very difficult disorder to treat even in humans who have language.


This brought me back to the early days of my nursing career . We had a patient who had had numerous surgeries for swallowing metal objects and was in our hospital with yet another episode. There was an order on the chart" NO PAIN MEDS". No one questioned that order. 
That was many years ago. Thankfully, our thinking regarding psychiatric disorders as well as pain control issues has changed.


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## Conquerergold (Dec 12, 2007)

Bentleysmom said:


> This is an interesting topic. I actually didn't even know that dogs can get this but it makes sense. Do they know what causes it? Are they born with it or is it developed? Thanks for starting this thread. I enjoy learning new things.


Honestly, I wish I knew more about the topic, all I know is what I learned from my experience with my boy. 

I do believe, based on what I have read, it can be genetic (which is supported by Broad Institute research), but there is a very high chance it can become a learned behaviour (an outlet for a dog, which then becomes habit, then obsessive).

In my boys case, he had a thing for rocks (it wasn't uncommon to see a pebble in his stool etc.). He ate a large rock and had to have surgery. We altered many things, we ensured he was never let outside alone (no matter the weather, someone was always with him watching). The second he would start to dig (even if there was no rock to be found), his attention would be diverted. When up at our cottage he always had a basket muzzle on when outside (it was too difficult to ensure that area was rock free, like we had done in the yard at home). If he spotted a rock on the ground, however, you could see his whole demeanor change. He would become fixated on it, and would block out anything around him (i.e. me calling him, trying to make noise to break the focus, one would have to leash him and pull him away etc). This worked for him for over two years, then one day when we went out for morning fun (he had eaten breakfast ok, was happy bouncy, in other words normal) he collapsed on the deck on his way to the yard, completely non-responsive. Rushed him to the vet, and they thought he was in the middle of an Addisons Crisis. He responded well to the treatment for Addisons, within 30 minutes was much improved (blinking reflex, breathing regulated etc.). Shortly after his temp coming back up, and getting some colour (he was in shock), he started to bleed from the rectom. They rushed him in for x-ray (knowing his history) and there it was, another huge rock. During surgery to remove it, he passed away. I have no idea how he got another rock, nor how he was able to swallow one so large without me noticing (like I said, there was always someone outside with him).

We were able to manage his condition for two great years, unfortunately despite conferring with behaviourists and diligence, in the end his obsession got the better of both of us. 

In his case, I do feel there was a genetic predisposition, as his sister who is owned by a friend is prone to obsessive paw licking/hair pulling. 

I would absolutly hate for anyone who has a dog like this to think it was their fault and all it takes is simple training. As others have referred to issues people have, I liken it to telling someone who is depressed 'just get out of bed, you will feel better', thankfully we are understanding more and more it is not near as simple as that.

With that said, dogs who are crated too long, left alone too long, constantly stressed can resort to OCD tendencies, and owners do have to shoulder a bulk of the blame for these cases, however figuring out how to improve and manage the issue is important for the sanity of dog and owner alike. 

Rob


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

My boy Hunter was a stray I found when he was about 1-1/2 yrs old. We're pretty sure he was crated all the time by his previous owner. He was a spinner. He was also obsessive about his bed and the placement. He was dog aggressive. I did lots of obedience classes with him. All those negative behaviors have stopped except his attachment to his bed, which we can live with live. The spinning was something we had never dealt with. It was interesting to fix, but we did that ourselves, by using obedience when he was not spinning and introducing sit stays when he started spinning. It took a along time. He did it mostly at feeding time or getting in the car. Every dog is different and every situation is different. I'm happy we took the time to work with him, he turned out to be a wonderful dog.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

When we got Darcy she was a complete basket case. I was completely afraid I was not up to the task. A behaviorist would have been able to retire just with her case. Poop eating, compulsive licking (us or Rose), fidgeting when in a sit - to the point that she will slide all over the floor, counter surfing, ridiculous drooling before eating time.....
The more I spent time with her, while trying not to ignore Rose (who was a good teacher to Darcy - I do believe dogs teach other dogs and they learn a lot more from other dogs than just other puppies their own age).
In the first month we stopped the poop eating. How? As disgusting as it sounds I have encouraged her to bring it to me and trade the poop for the frisbee. She the started bringing the poop and dropping it to my feet or next to the place I keep the frisbees. Alas, while I thought I finally have a poop cleaner helper, the more we played with the Frisbee outside the more she ignored the poop. 
I also noticed she wasn't holding her food very well, not gaining any weight or muscle. We started her on Acetylator. That not only helped her get nutrients in her body but also calm her tummy and help with the fidgeting, drooling and wait nicely for her food bowl to be set down. Once that was taken care of also the training that whatever is on the floor (dropped or just there) is not to be picked up unless you hear "find it". 
It was so cute today, we (my daughter and I) tried to teach both on how to catch a treat off their nose. They both would drop it on the floor instead of catching it and just look at the peanut- butter cookie while waiting for us to get it and put it back on their noses. With luck or perseverance or both they finally got the hang of it. 
The only issue we are still working on is the licking. While it has diminished from what it was 6 months ago it is still there.


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## Conquerergold (Dec 12, 2007)

Claudia M said:


> When we got Darcy she was a complete basket case. I was completely afraid I was not up to the task. A behaviorist would have been able to retire just with her case. Poop eating, compulsive licking (us or Rose), fidgeting when in a sit - to the point that she will slide all over the floor, counter surfing, ridiculous drooling before eating time.....
> The more I spent time with her, while trying not to ignore Rose (who was a good teacher to Darcy - I do believe dogs teach other dogs and they learn a lot more from other dogs than just other puppies their own age).
> In the first month we stopped the poop eating. How? As disgusting as it sounds I have encouraged her to bring it to me and trade the poop for the frisbee. She the started bringing the poop and dropping it to my feet or next to the place I keep the frisbees. Alas, while I thought I finally have a poop cleaner helper, the more we played with the Frisbee outside the more she ignored the poop.
> I also noticed she wasn't holding her food very well, not gaining any weight or muscle. We started her on Acetylator. That not only helped her get nutrients in her body but also calm her tummy and help with the fidgeting, drooling and wait nicely for her food bowl to be set down. Once that was taken care of also the training that whatever is on the floor (dropped or just there) is not to be picked up unless you hear "find it".
> ...


Glad these things worked for you, from what you describe though, these issues sound far from Compulsive Dog behaviours, rather it sounds like habits, which is a totally different ball game.

With a compulsive stool eating dog, you would not have the chance to train one to bring you stool, it would be gone, nor would playing with this kind of dog around stool desensitise them to it. It is a mental issue for compulsive dogs, not a training issue. I'm not sure how else to express that to you, I tried on the other thread, and now this one.

As I said, I'm glad you have been able to untrain some of your dogs habits, that is great news!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Rob, you may be entirely correct. We have had 1 to 3 dogs in our home since 1972 (2011 was the only year that we did not have a dog in our home). Majority of them have been Golden Retrievers. I have yet to meet a dog with the disorder you state. And I am not saying that it does not exist. But just like ADD and ADHD I believe we are risking to also over-diagnose it and use it as an excuse for not working with the dog in question. And I am not stating in any way that you did that, I am only stating that others may do that. 
Darcy was 4 years old when we adopted her, so if it wasn't a CBD it was certainly a long term behavior and her concentration was on nothing but that "delicious brown smelly poop". She did not respond to her name until she ingested it. The next times I walked to her to get her attention and since I have nothing else to "trade" her with I used the frisbee. It was not easy at first as I had to pry her "chompers" open and take that thing out with my hands while acting all happy and excited and thanking her for the "most wonderful gift" and just as excited to throw her the Frisbee in such way that she caught it and then keep on making over her while still holding the darn thing in my hand. 
I must admit that I have never seen that look almost a stare in the never never land that she had. I read of "the dreaded look" in the field books where the dog gets that look when he has a bird in its mouth and clamps onto it instead of delivering it. If you are familiar with it I would interpret Darcy's look as the "dreaded look" except she had poop instead of bird in her mouth. 
While I am no trainer (even though DH made the comment that if anyone could help Darcy it would have been me therefore we were meant to meet) nor a behaviorist I would go on a limb to say that it can very well be that the CBD caused by stress (sensitive dog or environment) could be alleviated by training while the CBD caused by genetics could not be treated/alleviated/trained. 
If indeed it is genetic then we certainly have to increase at what we are looking for when purchasing a puppy and more reason for the puppy purchasers to meet the parents and other dogs the breeder has.


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