# November Hunt and Field Training



## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

MWinter tried her paw at Upland hunting yesterday. 
Since this was our first try the birds were planted and the area was marked. 
When I run Master in Canada there is a quartering and a sit to flush series but not on live birds. I gave her my same hand signal and told her to hunt'em up. Off she goes quartering and covering the area well. We are in eastern Washington working sage brush. We gave her a bit of room to quarter to the first bird and as we come up she gets on the scent. As she goes in, it tries to run and she traps it. She delivers it and I start her again. However now she realizes that we are going after live birds and she really starts working the area! It was amazing to watch. #2 is sitting in the middle of a huge clump of sage brush and Winter goes in hard bumping up the bird. The bird flies out of the brush, the gunners track it and bring it down. Winter brings it in eyes shining. She is having a great time. #3 again great coverage on quartering and she seems to have figured out that she has to work close to us. She get on the scent and again goes in hard putting up the bird. We are on a ridge and the wind coming up the hill gives the pheasant more lift and the bird gets away. But we can see it sail down into a little valley on the other side of a tiny stream close to a tree line about 700 yards away. So off we go to find it but now we really are not sure where this bird is. When we get close we have Winter start working the area. After about 10 minutes of quartering and covering a lot of ground you can tell she is on the bird. She zeros in and this one is in a really dense clump of brush. Again she goes in hard and the bird explodes up out of the brush and Winter is right behind it, as it gains attitude the gunners shoot. This bird sails and we couldn't see where it fell but Winter knew and was bring it back in an instant. A huge storm was blowing in so we called it a day.
We were invited to try this by a friend of my DH. He has a one year old Standard Poodle named Zorro that he is taking to South Dakota in a couple to weeks and he wanted to get him on more birds before he left. Steve who is a big upland hunter told me he never would have known it was Winter's first time. That if I'm ever asked to go upland hunting to go because Winter can hold her own. He loved that you could read her so easily when she was on the bird. 
What a really fun experience and what a dog!


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Buffy is going to work tomorrow. We are working a continental style shoot. She will love it. She has been in the house recovering from kennel cough.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

George,
Sorry about the kennel cough. Was she her cough super loud? It's horrible the first time you hear kennel cough.

It's my usual dance with Lucy, one step forward, two steps back. So we'll go back to 3 handed casting and work through to double T again. She's happier now than in the past and anticipates running to the pile. Her whistle sits get better and better all the time. She is sure a late bloomer on field work.

Tomorrow I'm planning on taking her duck hunting. With a big storm to the north and one to the south, I'm hoping the ducks are thick and sticking around town. Sun doesn't come up until 8:45, so we don't have to get up early. She's so much fun to take hunting. She is in awesome shape. DH took her on a 10 mile snow bike trail run last night. She's about as lean and fast as it gets for a show puppy. The trails are packed snow, so they are very fast. No more torn off pads!

My skeet shooting isn't going well. I'm not the worst on the team, but I'm definitely not one of the best. Everyone tells me my gun is too heavy and I need to switch to a semi-auto 12 ga. But a good one is so expensive! DH warned me this would happen. Skeet is definitely an expensive sport. So addictive though. Every time you shoot you try to come up with ways to improve your shot with timing, angles, etc. It's a lot like shooting pool when I was in high school. Instead of thick cigarette smoke, it's thick gun smoke. Now whether the skeet shooting will improve my duck hunting, it's hard to say, we'll find out tomorrow!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I have one little rant for the day. Why is it that when a show breeder has a puppy from a litter that isn't show quality, they list the puppy as a performance breeding? A litter with nothing in their pedigree other than show titles for many generations, yet somehow they are a performance breeding if the puppy is not show ring quality. What the heck! I want to scream when I see those litter listings. Sorry but just because your puppy isn't a show prospect, doesn't mean that puppy will be a performance dog. Just list it as a pet and get over yourself. Wishing and hoping is not going to make a show puppy into a performance dog by just stating it in your ad. Why do show people think that's all it takes to produce a performance litter? End of rant...


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Alaska7133 said:


> I have one little rant for the day. Why is it that when a show breeder has a puppy from a litter that isn't show quality, they list the puppy as a performance breeding? A litter with nothing in their pedigree other than show titles for many generations, yet somehow they are a performance breeding if the puppy is not show ring quality. What the heck! I want to scream when I see those litter listings. Sorry but just because your puppy isn't a show prospect, doesn't mean that puppy will be a performance dog. Just list it as a pet and get over yourself. Wishing and hoping is not going to make a show puppy into a performance dog by just stating it in your ad. Why do show people think that's all it takes to produce a performance litter? End of rant...


Could it be because by listing the litter as a "golden retriever" everything else is assumed to be there regardless of actual facts?


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Rose has been doing pretty good on her doubles, triples and blinds, now if her water attitude will improve to my liking we will get somewhere. 

Darcy is back to basic handling. She is very soft and shuts down on a whistle sit. I have tried different games with her. The first problem I have she does not scout the terrain when I say dead; Rose does and the moment she is looking in the direction of the blind I give her a good and send with a back. Honestly whomever came up with this picture on Facebook got it right. I am considering training her in upland. She has so much drive and desire and nice water attitude (scares me when she jumps in the water). Blind work is no fun for her. 

Belle we started basic handling in the back yard. Not moving to the field yet. Tomorrow we will go to some bigger waters, curious to see how far she will swim. 

We took a break until recent from water because it was pretty nasty. Now we scramble to get some water training before it gets too cold. Always something!


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

hollyk said:


> MWinter tried her paw at Upland hunting yesterday.
> Since this was our first try the birds were planted and the area was marked.
> When I run Master in Canada there is a quartering and a sit to flush series but not on live birds. I gave her my same hand signal and told her to hunt'em up. Off she goes quartering and covering the area well. We are in eastern Washington working sage brush. We gave her a bit of room to quarter to the first bird and as we come up she gets on the scent. As she goes in, it tries to run and she traps it. She delivers it and I start her again. However now she realizes that we are going after live birds and she really starts working the area! It was amazing to watch. #2 is sitting in the middle of a huge clump of sage brush and Winter goes in hard bumping up the bird. The bird flies out of the brush, the gunners track it and bring it down. Winter brings it in eyes shining. She is having a great time. #3 again great coverage on quartering and she seems to have figured out that she has to work close to us. She get on the scent and again goes in hard putting up the bird. We are on a ridge and the wind coming up the hill gives the pheasant more lift and the bird gets away. But we can see it sail down into a little valley on the other side of a tiny stream close to a tree line about 700 yards away. So off we go to find it but now we really are not sure where this bird is. When we get close we have Winter start working the area. After about 10 minutes of quartering and covering a lot of ground you can tell she is on the bird. She zeros in and this one is in a really dense clump of brush. Again she goes in hard and the bird explodes up out of the brush and Winter is right behind it, as it gains attitude the gunners shoot. This bird sails and we couldn't see where it fell but Winter knew and was bring it back in an instant. A huge storm was blowing in so we called it a day.
> We were invited to try this by a friend of my DH. He has a one year old Standard Poodle named Zorro that he is taking to South Dakota in a couple to weeks and he wanted to get him on more birds before he left. Steve who is a big upland hunter told me he never would have known it was Winter's first time. That if I'm ever asked to go upland hunting to go because Winter can hold her own. He loved that you could read her so easily when she was on the bird.
> What a really fun experience and what a dog!


Don't you just love it when they get that look in their eye saying "OHHH, We're Having FUN Now!!"


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

Ran Belle in her 2nd master test. our first master test in the spring she broke on the flier this time very very happy at the line on the walk up and flier but didn't break picked up all 3 birds clean almost lined the land blind just one whistle close to the end to keep her out of the woods. second series this afternoon was a water double with a water blind. when and HAMMERED the marks came back and ran 2 very technical water blinds. on the way back to the truck everyone was telling me how well her blinds were and the best they had seen all day. but these are also the ponds and grounds we train on every weekend just at a lot bigger distances so this really was just a cake walk. tomorrow is the third series and as long as she picks up the marks clean and has a decent blind we will have our first master pass.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Bigger water and bigger entries. Such a nice experience; would have been nicer if the weatherman was correct, ended up getting home soaking wet and cold. It started pouring down rain from the moment we got there until we left(5 hours later). Did I mention I an still wrapped in blankets?


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Ok here's a test : which is the contrary mark in the above pictures?


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

After some field trail marks we went back today to hunt test marks. It was nice to see how the girls adjusted and how much more confidence they showed! All in all it was a good weekend learning and training. Rose was tired, that is where form follows function comes in; at 24 1/4" tall and 69 lbs she cannot do this day after day.


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

K9-Design said:


> Ok here's a test : which is the contrary mark in the above pictures?


the second pic right hand mark but will say from the line if may not have been contrary might have been a very skinny entry. hard to tell from a pic


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

Belle passed her master test today pretty steady with a in your face bird and a short mama papa. had to handle on the last bird even after talking her into a good line which she took. But proud of her work this weekend but time to get out of the short marks and hidden guns and see some long marks and white coats!!!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

krazybronco2 said:


> the second pic right hand mark but will say from the line if may not have been contrary might have been a very skinny entry. hard to tell from a pic


I think a more appropriate test would be: which marks would Annie be more worried to do???


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

Claudia M said:


> I think a more appropriate test would be: which marks would Annie be more worried to do???


no i think annie would be ready for that mark but that mark is not a training mark i want a dog to see water and get in water not run past it and pick it up just on the edge of the water in training. did we run marks like that in our master test today yes and that is one reason we had to handle on the last mark the judges set up the test to trick the dog into thinking land. i HATE tricking a dog!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

krazybronco2 said:


> no i think annie would be ready for that mark but that mark is not a training mark i want a dog to see water and get in water not run past it and pick it up just on the edge of the water in training. did we run marks like that in our master test today yes and that is one reason we had to handle on the last mark the judges set up the test to trick the dog into thinking land. i HATE tricking a dog!


If you trained with the dog to do these water entries you would not have had to handle. In a hunt test you pass with a handle but in a field trial a handle like that can be the needle that broke the camel's back.

ETA - if she wasn't worried she would not have brought it up AGAIN.


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

Claudia M said:


> If you trained with the dog to do these water entries you would not have had to handle. In a hunt test you pass with a handle but in a field trial a handle like that can be the needle that broke the camel's back.
> 
> ETA - if she wasn't worried she would not have brought it up AGAIN.


i handled on ONE mark out of 8, the other 7 she put her face on. so i can teach a dog to mark. and i know how field trials work cause i have at least run one. i got a jam in a Q and i was dead last in the 4th series cause i handled on the last bird. no one else handled on the long retired. the judges were nice. but i will keep training the way i train and you keep thinking your dog learns how to handle from watching from a kennel.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Trust me I wouldn't be afraid to run it. I just plain old wouldn't run it because it's a dumb mark with no value other than exercising your dog and teaching it to flare water. 

In other news I apprentice judged at Treasure Coast this weekend; Senior on Saturday and Junior yesterday. It was a lot of fun and I really enjoyed the process. The scoring system I used seemed to work and jived with the judges' opinions. Senior people mainly failed because they don't realize they are lining their dogs up incorrectly for blinds and memory birds, and sending too quickly before the dog is ready. Junior dogs in general have terrible obedience LOL I'd like to apprentice several more times under different judges, although I really liked my judges this weekend!!!

Will train hopefully tomorrow and Tuesday then leave for Oklahoma specialties on Wednesday.

Congrats Ben on your first Master pass! They are fun, aren't they?


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Congratulations, Ben, on the Pass! I'm very excited for you to get this title and I'm glad she did great for you yesterday. 
Glad you had fun apprenticing, Anney!


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

Anney master is fun but Qs are more fun.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Haha I'll wait until I get a ribbon in a Q before deciding 
Although one of my proudest moments ever with Fisher was making it to the 3rd series in a Q where he hung in there with all the "field dogs!" Then we bombed out haha


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## Poppy2 (Jun 23, 2015)

K9-Design said:


> Haha I'll wait until I get a ribbon in a Q before deciding
> Although one of my proudest moments ever with Fisher was making it to the 3rd series in a Q where he hung in there with all the "field dogs!" Then we bombed out haha


Did u bomb out on a contrary mark? Or maybe a blind parallel to the shore where the dog was thinking water, but the judge was thinking control.
Last series will find the best dog. Not having a balanced dog,but a robotic one will never get u to the winners circle.

That being said, I.m going hunting on Thursday, doubt any bird will fall where on want it to.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Poppy2 said:


> Did u bomb out on a contrary mark? Or maybe a blind parallel to the shore where the dog was thinking water, but the judge was thinking control.


Uhhh, no. It was a 275 yard water blind over four points. I lost him on the back of the 4th point. 



> Last series will find the best dog. Not having a balanced dog,but a robotic one will never get u to the winners circle.


Good training habits produce good performing dogs. Contrary marks go against good training. They are putting a bird where a dog naturally wants to go (easiest, least effort) so why train on it.



> That being said, I.m going hunting on Thursday, doubt any bird will fall where on want it to.


I also doubt anyone will judge you or hand you a ribbon afterwards.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Good for you guys still being able to do water work, however you run it! We'll see open in water in another 6 months.

Anney I'm glad you got to apprentice. I had fun with mine at GRCA national. Junior though is pretty basic, not a lot of things to think about, unlike senior.

Crazybronco congratulations on the master pass!

Didn't get out hunting this weekend. Most of the birds are gone and the reports are not very good. Had a hard time getting excited about breaking through ice covered mud flats for little chance of getting ducks. The cold will push down the ptarmigan and we'll go after them instead. Good crop of spruce grouse this year too. I wish we had pheasants up here.

Short days mean training at lunch time. Lunch meetings keep me from training much. The lights in my yard only allow a 1/2 wagon wheel. So that's what we got in. 

Skeet is getting better. Now I'm able to get in 3 boxes without having to quit. It takes a long time to get your shoulder used to it and being able to hold up a shotgun that long. Now I miss shooting 5 stand. Maybe I'll sneak some 5 stand in this weekend. With shooting so much I'm shocked at how often I have to clean my shotguns and how much gun oil I have to buy. Luckily they sell it at the grocery stores up here. DH laughs when he sees it on the grocery list.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Congratulations Ben!


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Congrats Ben!

Well done for taking on judging Anney! So glad to hear you had fun. 

Training has been spotty this fall and now the holidays will soon take their toll. 
My main training partner will be making her run at MH next season so we will need to ramp up for sure after the first of the year. 
On a good note we have had lots of rain and all training ponds are topped off.
Also I saw Trumpeter Swans flyover last Thursday so they are back for the winter. It is always a mark of time for me when they arrive in November.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Whoa Bally had a GREAT training day today. He did the biggest water mark of his life, about 150 yard swim past three points down the middle of training pond. He nailed it. SOOOOO happy!!!! By george he's figuring it out. Amazing progress in a short amount of time.
At the end I set up two water blinds for him, both channel blinds (at least at the beginning) where I sent from maybe 20-30 yards off the shore at the end of the channel. I want Bally to look out and go straight and swim down the channel -- simple enough, right? The first one was short maybe a 50 yard swim down the channel/shore. OK entry, caved a bit to the right but once I got him off the right side he took a nice long cast to the end. Next one was the next channel over nearly identical entry picture but this time the channel was about 25 yards long before it opened up into wide open swimming water, then ended with another channel on the opposite side. Bally took a GREAT initial line and held it for a good 80-90 yards! Woo! A few handles to keep him in the middle of the far channel and he was good to go.
Beautiful day today the temp has come down some. We leave for OK tomorrow.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Buffy went to work Friday and Sunday at the shooting preserve. Friday was a continental style shoot where she had 55 retrieves and Sunday was a duck shoot where she had 25 retrieves. The duck shoot has several ponds with blinds on them and the gunners are shooting flighted mallards. She got a lot of work but apparently pulled a muscle because she's limping a little bit. So Buffy is now resting.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

gdgli said:


> Buffy went to work Friday and Sunday at the shooting preserve. Friday was a continental style shoot where she had 55 retrieves and Sunday was a duck shoot where she had 25 retrieves. The duck shoot has several ponds with blinds on them and the gunners are shooting flighted mallards. She got a lot of work but apparently pulled a muscle because she's limping a little bit. So Buffy is now resting.


Dad-gum-it! I hate it when the dogs experience some sort of soft tissue injury, they just seem to take soooooo long to heal.
Did Thor get to go along for fun?


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## TrailDogs (Aug 15, 2011)

gdgli said:


> Buffy went to work Friday and Sunday at the shooting preserve. Friday was a continental style shoot where she had 55 retrieves and Sunday was a duck shoot where she had 25 retrieves. The duck shoot has several ponds with blinds on them and the gunners are shooting flighted mallards. She got a lot of work but apparently pulled a muscle because she's limping a little bit. So Buffy is now resting.


Her feet may just be sore for a few days. I have looked into dog boots for doing the big shoots. It is hard on their paws doing all the running through cover. They really get a workout.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

TrailDogs said:


> Her feet may just be sore for a few days. I have looked into dog boots for doing the big shoots. It is hard on their paws doing all the running through cover. They really get a workout.


.............................................


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

FTGoldens said:


> Dad-gum-it! I hate it when the dogs experience some sort of soft tissue injury, they just seem to take soooooo long to heal.
> Did Thor get to go along for fun?


Thor stayed home. Although he would have loved it, he will not be hunted for a while. I have different plans for him.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

George,
Is Thor going to be your obedience trial dog?


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

I will do obedience but I have other field training plans for Thor.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

gdgli said:


> I will do obedience but I have other field training plans for Thor.


Thor loves field work ... PERIOD!


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

been a while since i got to run the white coat stuff and man is it FUN! first set up was kinda like mill of peaches said but it was a somewhat spread out hip pocket go bird was around 150yards long memory birds was around 275 yards (hard to tell with the shadows) but Belle did ok with the go bird got lazy on my and had a huge banana line to the bird then the memory bird took an awesome initial line you couldn't have asked for prettier. gets in the and right before they dog gets in the water they loose sight of the gun so like all the other dogs belle sees the short gun and wants to go that away. 2 or 3 casts in the water and up and out to her bird not bad but defiantly will be working on more marks were the dog looses sight of the gun. 

then on to the water singles first mark was poor had to re run 3 times to get it right second mark started to swim at the gun so quick handle (1 cast) to get back on line and boom got her bird. third mark she was influenced by the shorter second mark so called back (no burn) then re threw the bird and boom straight as an arrow and put her face on it. 

not a good day but not bad she is inexperience 4yo dog but learning still every day. wish i had a pile of bird boys in my back pocket cause i would be using and abusing them everyday!! haha


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Yesterday it was raining ALL DAY and I still got out there and trained --- water marks, lining drill, obedience with Slater. Today was GORGEOUS weather and for some reason I couldn't drum up any training partners. Bill was leaving as I got there, Kristin never showed. I needed to do blinds anyhow so I set up four water blinds for Bally. Of course, collar was dead! Oh well, didn't need it. He did lovely. Three of the blinds had water entries parallel to a shore, then either past a point, down a channel or both at the end. He did really nice and worked with me very well. 
Went to the big field in front and set out four long, open blinds. I would say all around 200 yards?? Guessing. Ran both Bally and Slater on them, in pairs so they could rest in between. Slater hasn't done any field training recently, and of course smashed them. Two of the blinds he one-whistled. My trick to training this dog, is not train! LOL Bally had some more handles but he really worked with me, did a great job of sitting down, locking on with no fuss and running hard on a great initial line for quite some distance, which is what I wanted out of running these. The one blind that was across a rolling down hill, Bally held the line better than Slater did. Purely accident I'm sure!
So we'll see if I can scare up some training partners tomorrow and get marks.


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

FIELD RANT


Worked Buffy and Thor yesterday. Buffy---Three blinds in a blind field. Double and then a blind between marks. Thor---Double retrieves.


WHY DO PEOPLE WITH FAR LESS EXPERIENCE THAN ME WITH "OUT OF CONTROL" DOGS INSIST ON GIVING ME UNSOLICITED TRAINING ADVICE? I MIGHT ADD THAT I DO NOT NEED IT. I DO HAVE AN OPEN MIND BUT................


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

As someone said to me awhile back, first step in training is to know who to listen to and who to completely ignore. 
We went training today. Started out well with cheating singles. Took Rose out first. I assumed it would be a quick experience since the water was very cold. Nope she did several marks and we kept on increasing the distance to get her to cheat. No way! Good girl! 
After another dog I took Belle out. A repeat of what Rose did and she was awesome. 
I did not take Darcy as she is nit there yet.

After a couple dogs, we move to a double 150yrds memory with a 60 yard go to cheating water entry. I was quite sure Rose would not cheat! Not so fast! Once she was dry and in the warm truck she said no way to the go to bird. She totally showed me the paw! Finally got her in correct but then she squared. I started to get ticked off. Had the memory re-thrown and then did a middle 200 yard single. The lady who owns the land was in the driveway wearing white. Rose kept on going towards the driveway. Then she started piddling. I got super ticked off. A lady behind me said nick her or ear pinch her to the mark; she is disobeying. I called her back and heeled her to the truck and put her in. 
Took Belle. Did them as singles and Peanut saved the day! I did move closer to the water with her. Again on the middle single the lady was moving outside. Repeated the mark and got in the truck on a good note. 
As I promised Rose when I put her in the truck, she was not done for the day. I got her back out, started with the middle single and then we went back to the water. This time she did not think about cheating. 
I felt bad because the water was cold but I could not go home allowing her to know that she can blow me off. 
All in all it was a good day and I got to see one of my favorite golden boys who is now a JH BOY!


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

krazybronco2 said:


> been a while since i got to run the white coat stuff and man is it FUN! first set up was kinda like mill of peaches said but it was a somewhat spread out hip pocket go bird was around 150yards long memory birds was around 275 yards (hard to tell with the shadows) but Belle did ok with the go bird got lazy on my and had a huge banana line to the bird then the memory bird took an awesome initial line you couldn't have asked for prettier. gets in the and right before they dog gets in the water they loose sight of the gun so like all the other dogs belle sees the short gun and wants to go that away. 2 or 3 casts in the water and up and out to her bird not bad but defiantly will be working on more marks were the dog looses sight of the gun.
> 
> then on to the water singles first mark was poor had to re run 3 times to get it right second mark started to swim at the gun so quick handle (1 cast) to get back on line and boom got her bird. third mark she was influenced by the shorter second mark so called back (no burn) then re threw the bird and boom straight as an arrow and put her face on it.
> 
> not a good day but not bad she is inexperience 4yo dog but learning still every day. wish i had a pile of bird boys in my back pocket cause i would be using and abusing them everyday!! haha


Different world and discipline. Takes their training to a higher level. Keep after it and you will learn a bunch!! They can do much more than you think. Gunner was running 500 yard marks before he entered his first junior. Just my .02 you know your dog better than anyone else.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Don't want to step on toes but I will *never* let a dog not come back without a bird I send them for. I agree with the lady. Dog flipped you the paw and got away with it. On that note before you tell me I will go fly a kite. LOL


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Radarsdad said:


> Don't want to step on toes but I will *never* let a dog not come back without a bird I send them for. I agree with the lady. Dog flipped you the paw and got away with it. On that note before you tell me I will go fly a kite. LOL


That is good for you. I rather regroup and finish positive. There are two people who I train with that I take advice from and two people that I converse with online about training and weigh in their opinions.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Muggy today, overcast & humid. Started out with our angle-entry pile drill in the water, first one was down-the-shore the next one was cutting the corner of a pond. These are very simple drills, just taking lines to a white stake and very short but are helping Bally understand angle entries, staying on a good line and being comfortable in running water/shoreline.
Then a land double, long memory bird, much shorter go bird, long blind up the middle, diversion bird on the way back with the memory bird. Bally did a real nice job. After the other guys ran I repeated the go-bird and diversion bird, which were in-line, as an in-line double, a concept I need to start working with him on. I have taught him "easy" and "way out" in the yard. Today he did GREAT on this little double and seemed to understand the cue words.


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## Poppy2 (Jun 23, 2015)

gdgli said:


> FIELD RANT
> 
> 
> Worked Buffy and Thor yesterday. Buffy---Three blin . ds in a blind field. Double and then a blind between marks. Thor---Double retrieves.
> ...


How is this a rant?
I have know idea what you are talking about.
Maybe you need some tougher skin and just forget about it and carry on. Is it really worth getting upset about. 
Just some unsolicited advice.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Claudia M said:


> That is good for you. I rather regroup and finish positive. There are two people who I train with that I take advice from and two people that I converse with online about training and weigh in their opinions.


Best of luck to you. You will run into that again. To me that is avoidance of the task. Learned a long time ago when you run into a problem you stop right there and fix it. Or it will come back and bite you. Over and Out. Sometimes I wonder about this "Positive" is lack of commitment. Positive is you helping the dog succeed.


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

Ran a lot of water with belle yesterday and no blinds so Belle got a poison bird blind that was not super tight more trying to draw her up left of the hay bale.
the marks was around 150 yards the blind was around 275 yards. line to the blind was pretty tight with the key hole over a road then parallel to the road into a small piece of cover to the blind. carried an awesome initial line past the key hole in the trees to almost the hay bale and 3 whistles after that to finish the blind.









Bodey got to setups (for got the pic) but his long bird was belles poison bird with a mark to the left of it and not tight. looking for him to run past the short gun and then check down on a short bird and learn a concept as singles you could tell it had been a little while since he has seen some marks from the field first bird he just went and ran and ran and ran but did run past the short gun and finally came over to his bird and picked it up. short bird same thing run run run helped him out and set it all back up and ran it again he was calmer and picked them up nicely. 
second set for bodey was hip pocket thrown to the right. long bird put his face on it! perfect line to the bird. short mark he is learning to check up he ran right over the bird got deep then started hunting back to the bird and picked it up so re threw the short bird and no problems. he should be worn out now long bird for this set was around 150 yards and short bird was around 80 yards.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Poppy2 said:


> How is this a rant?
> I have know idea what you are talking about.
> Maybe you need some tougher skin and just forget about it and carry on. Is it really worth getting upset about.
> Just some unsolicited advice.


I think rant because it is frustrating. Does not necessarily mean one has thin skin. 
You see people with MH dogs that cannot control them, let them jump on people and afraid to even say OFF as they know the dog will not listen and will just embarrass them more but come to tell you to run things differently. 

The worst ones are the ones that start while you are actually running your dog. 

People while well intended do not realize how destructive they can be for a new handler. It happened yesterday with a lady. While the dog was running the same lady that "advised" me to nick and ear pinch my dog started yelling to the handler from the working station to which the dog was running. REALLY? :no:


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Radarsdad said:


> Best of luck to you. You will run into that again. To me that is avoidance of the task. Learned a long time ago when you run into a problem you stop right there and fix it. Or it will come back and bite you. Over and Out. Sometimes I wonder about this "Positive" is lack of commitment. Positive is you helping the dog succeed.


Thank you! I am sure that I will run into this again. I would like to emphasize that I said "finish on a positive note". Each dog is different and I think you need to know your dog. Rose was more punished by being put in the truck than by nicking the hell out of her. After three dogs, I got her back out and she nailed them nicely. 

I also learned awhile back that sometimes when you run into a problem it is best to set back than to make rush judgments because sometimes you can actually make the problem worse.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Today we kept it short and sweet! 
Two marks one at 250 yards and one at 310 yards. The long mark was over hills, thru muddy high cover valley and back on the hill. All dogs did very nice. Rose did a blind and then we came home. 
As I started the car the girls were up looking to go to "the next set up". When we got on the street Rose laid down with a mumble, Belle was looking around and finally laid down. Darcy always goes straight into rest mode when the car is running.


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

Claudia M said:


> Thank you! I am sure that I will run into this again. I would like to emphasize that I said "finish on a positive note". Each dog is different and I think you need to know your dog. Rose was more punished by being put in the truck than by nicking the hell out of her. After three dogs, I got her back out and she nailed them nicely.
> 
> I also learned awhile back that sometimes when you run into a problem it is best to set back than to make rush judgments because sometimes you can actually make the problem worse.


Agreed, you can make the problem the worse. Never said anything about "nicking the hell of her". Correction needs to fit the situation. Collar is not the only answer. Rex Carr said if he was a really a good trainer he would not need a collar. Prefer to correct and teach without the collar when possible but there are times when you need to make an "impression" and I am not saying the collar was the answer. I will put them back in the truck but for different issues but avoidance is not one of them. I am sure you are very good with your dogs and doing the best you can for them. Pick up the chickens and hang some ribbons.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Radarsdad, 
Sorry to hear about Gunner and hoping for the best.

I trained with the Pro on Thursday and we were in on of my favorite spots down his way. 
It's this cool little bowl that has some changes in cover, a few trees and a creek in the bottom. We've have a ton of rain so there was quite a bit of flood grass. The marks are not long but they can be placed really well making it very technical. One particular mark tripped up most of the dogs. It was straight out out, over the creek and fell in standing flooded grass. There was a stripe of short grass behind it and then the slope of the other side of the bowl that had cover. Like many of the dogs, Winter blew over the mark went across the short strip and hunted up on the slope, she checked down but never across the short grass to check down in the flooded grass and I had to handle her to the mark. I watch quite a few really good dogs do the same thing, blow over the mark and hunt the slope. I think what was happening was, from the dogs point of view they didn't really see the short cover strip between the flood grass and the slope. We had pretty flat lighting and the cover in the flooded grass and on the slope was the same color so somehow their eye was getting tricked and drawing them deep. 
After watching quite a few dogs run I realize that the dogs who were picking this up clean were the few dogs who's bird was landing in the one tiny clear spot of water and were getting a splash with this mark. Probably not the best explanation but I thought it was interesting and illustrated that bird placement can make or break you. This next year I hope I can really hone my skills at creating really good training setups and learn a bit about good bird placement. 
This great little spot has cattle on it and when we drove up to the gate to leave the cattle were hanging out there. It took us about 15 minutes to get them to move on. Last spring to was easy to move yearlings but these were older and BIGGER cattle who stand their ground looking really SCARY if you try and push them too hard. 
Yikes, the things I do to train!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Really happy with Bally today. We set up a water double challenging him on all the work we've done holding a line past points. Also the first water double he's seen in a while! Memory bird was about 70 yards, 30 yard water entry then past two points and up on the bank. Go bird to the right of that was about 125 yards, again ~30 yard entry, get in and swim parallel to the shore, then the mark was thrown from a point but the point is long/blunt so really at the end of the mark the dog had to swim parallel to the shore about 10 feet off the bank for a good 20-25 yards to get the bumper in the water thrown angle back from the gunner. WOOHOO Bally nailed both marks, no wavering at all from the perfect line and he stepped on the memory bird. I was SOOOOOOOOOO happy with him!!! 
Another small thing I've been emphasizing especially in our lining drills is when the dog comes back, I want him to sit in heel position and look out at the next mark or blind and focus before I take the bird and send. Bally did this perfectly on the memory bird today so it is paying off. He also shakes off with the bird in his mouth before he even gets back to me so not sure if I inadvertently taught that or he does it to hurry things up 
Hand thrown walking singles w/ birds on the land after that to dry them off.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

you are lucky Proof won't shake until I take the bird. I still line him up with the bird in his mouth but usually he will shake when I take it but gets right back into go position. I have seen him not shake at all on a double, ha ha!!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Fisher and Slater both would shake when I took the bird but Bally is in a bigger hurry. He either shakes as he's running to me, or doesn't shake at all. Honestly I like that so much better that I think if he tries to shake when I take the bird I'll tell him to no, sit. One of my training buddy's dogs does the shake off thing as an avoidance technique. They get all lined up and ready to send on a memory bird or blind and Oh! Wait! Gotta shake! No you don't you brat!!!


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

hollyk said:


> Radarsdad,
> Sorry to hear about Gunner and hoping for the best.
> 
> I trained with the Pro on Thursday and we were in on of my favorite spots down his way.
> ...


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Radarsdad said:


> Karl Gunzer showed me a trick about Goldens, they do not like to hunt* down* a hill after blowing through a mark.


Indeed, but it's not just Goldens that don't like to hunt downhill.

Karl is a great guy, I hated to see him leave the ranks of FT pros. He had lots of success with Goldens. (Rumor has it that Rorems have a few pretty good Goldens on their trucks now.)


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

It is getting colder and colder here. Woke up to 23 degrees outside. The water is very cold, poor Belle was shivering on Saturday. 

I have ordered vests last week. Avery Neoprene vest. I wish I had them for this past weekend. 

Do you use vests for your dogs and if you do what kind?


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

cabelas dog vest with armor flex. big wide velcro strap and you can modify the vest by cutting holes bigger or trimming and neoprene cementing the cuts to make holes smaller. and like the velcro it is strong but if your dog gets snagged on something there is a chance for the dog to tear out of the vest unlike the avery with a zipper.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

krazybronco2 said:


> cabelas dog vest with armor flex. big wide velcro strap and you can modify the vest by cutting holes bigger or trimming and neoprene cementing the cuts to make holes smaller. and like the velcro it is strong but *if your dog gets snagged on something there is a chance for the dog to tear out of the vest unlike the avery with a zipper*.


Very good point, thank you! Getting caught in something is my biggest fear and the reason I have procrastinated in getting them. I guess the best way to avoid that is not let them swim in cold water.


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

Claudia M said:


> Very good point, thank you! Getting caught in something is my biggest fear and the reason I have procrastinated in getting them. I guess the best way to avoid that is not let them swim in cold water.


i normally don't throw a lot of water marks when it gets cold but i hunt and that is when the dog wears a vest. a proper fitting vest doesnt keep the dog warm in the water it keeps them warm after they get out of the water by trapping that water under the vest and the body heat warming the water up to keep the dog warm. i know this because i have slipped my hand under the vest a few times after the dog gets done and the water is cold 5mins later slip your hand under the vest and they are toasty warm. that is why i like the cabelas vest because i can modify it to fit properly.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

This is an interesting topic: With respect to water temps, how cold is too cold to train in? 

I know that some pros use the 100 degree rule: water temp + air temp = >100 degrees (yeah, I know that wind chill could affect this, but it's a guideline). I don't personally subscribe to that theory, but I could probably come up with a number below which I wouldn't train in water ... and that the number would be below 100 ... I know I've trained with the number being 90, probably less.
And the temps at which I take my pups hunting would be substantially below even my lowest training temp. I have hunted in sub-freezing temps with my pup, put my hand under his vest, and found that he's really toasty under that vest. I'm more concerned about my pup overheating in a vest than being cold, particularly considering the work that he's doing.
As Krazybronco2 said, fit is important.
FTGoldens


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

FTGoldens said:


> This is an interesting topic: With respect to water temps, how cold is too cold to train in?
> 
> I know that some pros use the 100 degree rule: water temp + air temp = >100 degrees (yeah, I know that wind chill could affect this, but it's a guideline). I don't personally subscribe to that theory, but I could probably come up with a number below which I wouldn't train in water ... and that the number would be below 100 ... I know I've trained with the number being 90, probably less.
> And the temps at which I take my pups hunting would be substantially below even my lowest training temp. I have hunted in sub-freezing temps with my pup, put my hand under his vest, and found that he's really toasty under that vest. I'm more concerned about my pup overheating in a vest than being cold, particularly considering the work that he's doing.
> ...



What kind do you use? What have you found to work or not work? 

On Saturday Belle was shivering, I quickly towel dried her and fluffed her coat up. Car was warm and I have a nice warm pad in the crates. 

Two weekends ago the water was warm even though it was cold outside. 

This weekend the water was cold to touch. Did not actually take the water temperature. It was 36 degrees when we started and got warm to about 48 by the time we finished training.


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

if i run any water during the winter i prefer lots of running and short swims and soon as we are done with that set towel off as dry as i can get the dog and then straight into the box but i would only do this with and older dog that has lots of water experience not with a dog that is less than a year old. but in my area is a little diff a lot of the ponds we train in are in direct sunlight all day and shallow so they are warmer than most other training ponds but they were designed that away so they could be used during the winter.


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

krazybronco2 said:


> ... in my area is a little diff a lot of the ponds we train in are in direct sunlight all day and shallow so they are warmer than most other training ponds but they were designed that away so they could be used during the winter.


*Nice!*

I'm jealous ... so are my dogs!:


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## FTGoldens (Dec 20, 2012)

Claudia M said:


> What kind do you use? What have you found to work or not work?


The one that I use came from Bass Pro Shop. However, it's really all about the fit of the vest, not the brand. Around my area, the major sporting goods stores allow dogs inside, so you may be able to take your pups into the stores and try on different sizes and brands ... surely there's a fitting room.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Would be nice if there was one around FTGoldens. I may just have to order couple sizes of each and return what does not fit or could not be tailored to fit.


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## krazybronco2 (May 21, 2015)

Claudia cabelas has a sizing chart find. Normally 3 diff places to size the neck chest and stomach area. Find the size that fits the largest area order that size and then trim or over size the arm holes or neck. Super easy to do. And neoprene cement is your friend. Just follow the instructions and you will have a perment bond.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

The story of my life  All the Cabella's vests are on back order. Will probably end up with two or three of four. Reason why my husband does not like me shopping. Ended up with three dove hunting chairs when we only needed one. They do make good chairs for field training though plus now everyone has a nice chair so he cannot complain that I wasted money. hahaha

I watched the video on gundogsupply on the fitting before ordering. Belle is 17 1/2 neck, 26" chest and 20" waist. Peanut nickname fits her good. I have a client who is a tailor and also likes my dogs so I am sure she will have no problem getting Belle in her fitting room.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Whoa. Bally did some incredible marks (for him) yesterday. First off, weather was spectacular 65º, sunny, clear as a bell! What a treat. Trained @ Lazy J w/ Bill & Kristin. Bill set up the marks, talked me through it then proclaimed Bally the winner! LOL I have to say, Bally did AWESOME and it showed his training so far coming together.









Ran both from the road.
Bottom cheater mark was first, ~150 yard land approach to a very small sliver of the pond (actually that is the part of the pond I do my swimby on). Nerve wracking watching Bally make that big approach but sooooo cool to see water plume when he made the right choice and got in 
Big water mark was next ~125 yard land entry, swim past the island then past the point, mark on the far finger thrown into the wind. STRONG crosswind pushing into the land. Again, nervy for me to watch him navigate this himself. BIG water entry, swam as straight as an arrow past the island and point! WHOA!!! Faded a bit with the wind in the open water but whatever, the hard part was over at that point. I couldn't believe it. None of my other dogs would have done this. Very exciting for Bally 
We finished up the day with two big land blinds through the haybales in the front field. GORGEOUS day super fun!!!!!!


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

> Nerve wracking watching Bally make that big approach but sooooo cool to see water plume when he made the right choice and got in


This is how I feel every single time I see Proof approach water on a big mark. I loved how you described the feeling.

Great for Bally! Working with B all the time is going to push you even more than you push yourself, I do believe! Bally should enter the Q next spring! I'll be he will be ready!


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! 

I always enjoy this holiday. The only time I get 4 days off work. Sort of, still have to work but not full days.

That means Thursday training at 8am followed by Thanksgiving dinner with family at 12pm. Training Friday followed by work and Saturday and Sunday!


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## Poppy2 (Jun 23, 2015)

Claudia M said:


> Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!
> 
> I always enjoy this holiday. The only time I get 4 days off work. Sort of, still have t ;-)o work but not full days.
> 
> That means Thursday training at 8am followed by Thanksgiving dinner with family at 12pm. Training Friday followed by work and Saturday and Sunday!


Back atcha!
My favorite day of the whole year is tomorrow! Brother in law , nephew and me and the dog are going to shoot some holes in the sky, tell stories(mostly lies), then go eat good food with family!
It's a day I think about my father alot and how he took me hunting as a child.
Miss you dad!


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Over Thanksgiving weekend I've had some great oppotunities to get in some training with Lucy. I am now pretty convinced she doesn't have an issue with directions in handling. I know Anney was sure I had skipped steps in training and she needed to go back to the beginning. So over the last few weeks I have. Well now this weekend I went ahead and did 2 singles (about 100 yards) with a short 30-40 yard pattern blind. Lucy ran it just fine the first time. Ran the second time, same set up as a double with the same pattern blind. She blew me off on the blind. Ran 10 yards and popped. I know Anney was convinced that Lucy was confused and didn't understand. So I walked up to Lucy and sent her on an over to the bumper. She ran another few feet and switched directions. So I whistle sat her and moved up again. She popped again. So at that point I knew she was screwing with me. So I ear pinched her to the bumper. She was not impressed but she went and picked up the bumper. She new exactly where it was. So I did aquick fetch with that bumper and ear pinching her to it right in front of us. She picked up that bumper and ran off with it to one of the throwers. So I whistled her, which she ignored. So I increased the collar level a bit (not a lot) and put it on constant until she turned around and started running back to me. I had her sit when she got back. Went out in the field and threw a nice bumper retrieve for her. She did great. So I talked to my friends that watched the whole thing. Their take was, Lucy gets bored. She just gives me the paw and is bored. Since I had gotten in a good correction, I didn't want to train with her anymore, just put her in her crate. My friends suggested it was time for Lucy to not continuously go to the same pile for a pattern blind. She really needed to go farther and in different locations. The suggestion was to do 2 things. Next time she pops, to back-nick-back her. The other suggestion was to put no more than 2 bumpers in a pile and put a variety of piles all around a field at different distances. Mark them with cones or surveyor tape. So that's what I did the next day. Lucy only popped once and I did a back-nick-back correction, which she turned and ran to the bumper with no problem. The bumpers were all over the field. I have little orange cones and she was just fine running to wherever. So I think I have a very bored dog, one that needs entertainment. After doing Connie Cleveland's online obedience class, I've learned I have a thoughtful dog that is easily bored and needs to be challenged. So today that's what I'm headed out to do. Challenge her.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Stacey when I was telling you to move on to cold blinds, that is exactly what I was trying to explain. Those pattern blinds are redundant after awhile. Katniss really moved forward when we moved on past pattern blinds.
Ironically this past week my trainer had been out of town and told me to run Proof on these pattern blinds he set up for him. The first few days he did great lining them and all that jazz but then he suddenly started farting around and did't want to go and was also bugging at the line, which is so not like him. 
Talked to the trainer when he got back and he said that is when we know to move on. He is bored! So that same day he ran his first cold blind. Second day cold blinds improved greatly and so on and so on. yesterday ran some pattern blinds of my own and he took all those casts gladly. Today ran the two best blinds to date. 
Point is, I think the cold blinds link all the training together. And it will be the same for Lucy I'm sure. You might see some major improvement in the next month!


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

OK so today was pretty cool. Trained with Kristin and since she's entered in Master next weekend we set up a master land series for the dogs. Walkup out of order triple. Walkup short 30 yard bird on the left. Swing right, 100+ yard memory bird going left to right from behind a big clump of trees. Swing to the middle, go-bird comes right to left from the other side of the clump of trees (flowerpot). Blind was under the arc and deep of the go-bird. So before we did any marks I ran the blind with Bally, he one-whistled it. 
Ran the other dogs, then it was Bally's turn to put it together. He had a little hunt on the go-bird, STEPPED ON the other two memory birds. Then LINED the blind. Whoa. For the record, this is the first triple he's ever done. On his 2nd memory bird, the long one, he literally stepped on it. He has so much better natural memory and marking than my other dogs, and/or I've done a much better job fostering it. It was uncanny. Never put his nose down or slowed down on the blind too, and this is exactly the second under the arc blind he's ever done. REALLY HAPPY!!!! 

After picking up we did remote send marking drill which is a lot of fun. Bally totally gets this. I set up his mat, and put a holding blind a few feet behind it. Gunner out in the field doing walking singles. I leave Bally pointed at the gunner, walk behind the holding blind. Typically he is surveying the field or turns to watch me. The second I say "MARK" he knows to look for the gun. He's steady until sent. It's adorable. Today I even said MARK, blew the duck call behind him, and he never wavered looking away from the gunner and following the mark to the ground. Cute stuff.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Stacey, I'm having trouble understanding what you had set up. After reading though your post several times I think my confusion comes from the definition of pattern blind. 
My definition of pattern blind, was done after T/TT on a flat featureless field. Below is a crude drawing of my three legged pattern blind that is loading upside down no matter what I do, nor can I figure how to size it using an IPad.
We did this at 60 yards and 80 yards and I think I did 100 yards too. We ran pattern blinds for maybe 2 weeks to stretch her out and reinforce that solid look out and then we moved to cold blinds marked with a step in stake. I also started at the same time as pattern blinds what I know as memory blinds. Memory blinds are run in the same field to the same spot over and over but you stretch then out from 50 years to 400+, so you need a big field. 
How are your pattern blinds set up and run? Will you continue to use them?


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Hopefully I make sense when I show you all what we did.
This was Friday. The blind was a known blind. I walked out with Lucy and placed the bumpers there. She picked one up and bounced around with it. I tossed it back to the pile. Walked back to the line. For me I guess that's a pattern blind. It was known to her. There was no marker, I knew from a fence post approximately where it was. She had no problem finding it the first time. It was the second time that she screwed around and popped.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Here's Saturday. I had placed a small orange cone on the field. It was a mowed field with no features except around the edges with tall grass and trees. With each cone I placed 2 bumpers. Lucy was off leash bouncing around while I set this all up. She could see exactly where they all were. She did just fine on this. But no more than 2 bumpers in each set up. She did pop once, but I back-nick-back when she did. When I did that, she turned and ran and got the bumper. So obviously she knew exactly where it was. No confusion.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Here is the 1st set up today. These were all cold blinds. Lucy was in the car, so she couldn't see where they were. I set a small orange cone next to each bumper. The field was not mowed. The grass was tall clumps. The area was a bowl. She did not pop, but did have suction to the previous bumper locations. So I did have to work with her to not go to the previous locations. No popping.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

Here's the last setup today. I set up 2 launchers to throw uphill. One blind. Field was featureless. For a marker I left the bag I had hauled the bumpers next to the pile of bumpers. This was also a cold blind. Ran both marks. Then ran the blind. She had trouble. I had to move up a couple of times to make sure she understood what I wanted. No suction, just insecurity I think. When I reloaded the launchers, I sent Lucy back to the line to get the bumpers. She had a bit of trouble and needed one whistle to figure out what I wanted. Second time I sent her to the line for another bumper, she had no problem.

MOP,
I think you are right. She was completely bored. I was afraid of doing cold blinds with her. We're not perfect. She doesn't take every cast perfectly. Sometimes she's off a bit in her direction. So I'll stop her and re-cast her in the correct direction. I'm new at this too, so lots of mistakes will be made.

Holly,
Does that make sense what I'm calling a pattern blind? Basically something that the dog already knows is there.

Back to the darkness. Sunrise 9:40 am sunset 3:50 pm and still getting shorter. Can't wait for Dec. 22 when the days finally start getting longer again.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Hmmm.....I think I would move on to cold blinds or if you don't have the basics, Go, Stop and taking a general direction Cast then I would work T drill to get it. 

I can't wait for December 22 either.


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Stacey moving to cold blinds is never going to be easy no matter how much T work you do. That first day proof acted like he'd never seen last in his life. It was just a matter of moving from a contained area to a big open field. The first blind we did was about 150 yards or more though cover patches and hills. He basically ran all around ha ha. 

What I did was kept sitting and walking up towards him and then casting. He finally made his way to the bird. He was like awww, that is what we're doing!
Second blind better. Third much better.

The point I'm trying to make is she is going to make lots of mistakes. Try for a much longer blind. Let her take a loose line to build up momentum and move up towards her to help keep control. You don't need to be close just move towards her. 
The reason I like to run them longer is that you can build momentum. On a short blind, the line is tighter yu have no space to let her just run and then you have no room to give her a cast that she can carry for a while. 

Just try it girl. Don't be scared, know it is going to be rough and she is going to make tons of mistakes the first times no matter how much you prepare. And like Proof, who hasn't been doing this long, she will start to figure it out and things will come together.


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## Alaska7133 (May 26, 2011)

I do move up with her. I just do it pretty much automatically. We've done tons of T and double T drills. Wagonwheels, all that good stuff. She was so happy when she gets the bumper on a cold blind. She acts like wow there was a bumper there! Getting her to be more confident will be the work now. Also getting me to be more confident too! I have to make sure to continue to work on marks. It was nice yesterday to send her back to the pile to bring me bumpers when I re-loaded the launchers. On the marks we worked on going straight through very thick willow brush. She's pretty good at running straight lines even on side hills. I've always liked her marking, now I just need to retain it now that we've started cold blinds.

Holly,
What's on Dec. 22?

MOP,
when is your first derby, do you have it on the calendar yet?


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## MillionsofPeaches (Oct 30, 2012)

Stacey, maybe at 14 months, not sure yet. Making sure he is up to par. Little booger is pretty smart, he'll get test wise fast if he isn't already.


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

More daylight!


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