# Judges that “like” or don’t mind the “Cream” coloring



## LittleGoldenofthePrairie (Dec 14, 2021)

So, as you know I want to show! And our breeder is allowing me to AKC register my girly(unlimited) for show instead of waiting 2 years and I am so grateful and happy!!

I won’t be able to show until at least summer because I’m really busy until May. BUT I wanted to ask those who show light colored Goldens in the US what AKC judges they look for. I know judges(like breeders) interpret the breed standard differently or just have preferences and I’m wondering if anybody would be willing to share??? Thank you so much in advance!!


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Coat color is not what judges point on- but you can spend some time on following dogs with light coat color, and then look on AKC to see who gave them their majors, for instance, or you can (usually easier) look up past judging for each of the judges coming to shows you are looking at and then go back and forth to see what those awarded dogs look like on k9data. I suspect owner handler will be a much bigger issue than coat color- Goldens tend to be handler breed and if you want to compete, you need to be an excellent handler.
edit: What I mean is don't make the mistake of getting a name and having anticipation of winning if you look around the ring and are the only light coated dog... it's not that simple and coming from the opposite side (mine are usually darker than average) all you can do is hope judge recognizes your dog's excellent structure and not be bothered by coat color. It wouldn't mean much if all it took was 'ok with coat color'...


----------



## ArkansasGold (Dec 7, 2017)

I agree with what Robin said above. You can never go into a ring expecting to win as an owner handler, no matter what your dog looks like. And I learned the hard way not to expect something if someone else said “so and so judge will love your dog!” For one, that always makes me feel pressure and I don’t do as well handling. For another, you never know who else is going to be there with a dog that judge may (or may not) also love.

But, I will add that breeder judges are more likely to be “colorblind” than all-breed judges. Sometimes you will find them on an all-breed panel, but most often they are to be found at specialties. There is a list on the GRCA website of AKC licensed breeder judges.


----------



## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Addie has won classes under breeder judges but no points yet. (She’s only been shown a total of 5 times) in the puppy classes so far. I’m not opposed to sending her out with a handler, knowing she’ll do better with more judges with a handler…but if I do it won’t be until she’s more mature, and I’ll choose a handler who will show a light dog and knows which judges to take her too. So for now I show her myself. One esteemed breeder judge who Addie won under at Morris & Essex told me he really liked her, said she was very pretty but also said “only take her to breeder judges!!”

You should join the fb group (if you have fb) “English/European Golden Retriever Show Enthusiasts USA”. It’s a group where people share wins they’ve had under various judges with both dogs who are very light and dogs who are European type.

I have a list of judges I can share with you too. No lie — every 3 weeks I sit down on AKC and plug all of those judges names into the event search to track who is judging where. So far we have a show In Feb, 2 in March, and the eastern regional in May.

Unfortunately it’s cheaper for most clubs to give assignments to all breed judges who they can pay to judge many breeds, rather than hire/pay breeder judges for less breeds. There are several breeder judges who have judging licenses for a ton of breeds who tend for have more assignments.

Lastly, if your dog has really nice movement, there are also sporting breed judges who will appreciate a golden with correct movement regardless of color. The other option is Canada, which is on our agenda this summer…finishing Addie in Canada. It’s not as competitive or the same point schedule as AKC, but it’s a way to show and get your dogs recognized and put some titles on them. Hope this helps!!!


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Also useful- the FB groups Dog Conformaton Critique and Canine Conformation: Evaluations. 
I probably don't remember your puppy right but seems like you went w a breeder who had giardia? And was Mn Eng GRs? So I suggest also you ask some breed people what they see in your stacked photos- If it was MnEng, they don't finish their own dogs so I wouldn't put a lot of stock in their opinion.


----------



## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

I second the groups!! I love them


----------



## LittleGoldenofthePrairie (Dec 14, 2021)

I DO plan on hiring a handler but not one that will take my puppy away….too many fears with that one lol

I don’t have any expectation that she will be able to get a championship with AKC but at the very least would like to be involved in conformation in order to be seen as more reputable and involved with the breed. I think that if I am able, I’d like to take her to the IABCA shows(even if they mean nothing) just to compete. I also looked at UKC. I just learned how to use the judge search thingy in AKC! That’s was fun!😆🤍✨


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

LittleGoldenofthePrairie said:


> I don’t have any expectation that she will be able to get a championship with AKC but at the very least would like to be involved in conformation in order to be seen as more reputable and involved with the breed. I think that if I am able, I’d like to take her to the IABCA shows(even if they mean nothing) just to compete. I also looked at UKC. I just learned how to use the judge search thingy in AKC! That’s was fun!😆🤍✨


Can I just say something?

The reason why breeders should be involved in conformation and put the time in - including years and years.... it's because this is sometimes the best way to open your eyes and start to critically look at your dog and learn her weaknesses. Likewise, it is also opening your eyes and getting a good "eye" for this breed. It's gaining experience and knowledge - hands on.

Things like that do not come from reading books, looking at diagrams in books or online, and sometimes it's not even just paying a handler to finish your dog for you while you sit at home and plan the next breeding.

Unfortunately you do not get that same thing from UKC or perhaps even IABCA. The harder it is to show your dog and compete, the more you recognize and appreciate all of the little things that can make a dog competitive or not.

Separately - it is worth pointing out that your first girlie may not be "the big show dog" who will go out and win everything. Unless she comes from a breeder who as per all the above, has honed a very good eye for what "should be there". But competing with her and keeping your eyes open and listening to what people say, asking questions, seeing what wins on average regardless of the handler.... you will hopefully learn what your girl needs in a stud dog.

With many european style goldens that I've seen, heads are lacking. This includes size of ears and earset. That's a tougher issue than color. 

Many people who do not show their dogs or do not have an eye honed from many years showing their dogs.... it's tougher for them to be critical enough to improve what they own and breed.


----------



## LittleGoldenofthePrairie (Dec 14, 2021)

Megora said:


> Can I just say something?
> 
> The reason why breeders should be involved in conformation and put the time in - including years and years.... it's because this is sometimes the best way to open your eyes and start to critically look at your dog and learn her weaknesses. Likewise, it is also opening your eyes and getting a good "eye" for this breed. It's gaining experience and knowledge - hands on.
> 
> ...


if you read my post you would see that I’m getting into showing to BE INVOLVED. I WANT to be critical…. I actually think I NEED it. Not to mention that I have an amazing breeder who I actually had to leave the country to visit before being allowed on the litter list. She didn’t have a litter for years and I was lucky enough to be considered. I have been involved with dogs(Goldens) for years but not able to show. I had my breeder go over every puppies strengths and I picked out a puppy but I ended up not getting the puppy I picked as the breeder strongly suggested the puppy I have now and I trusted her. I never expected her to to “win big” or even win at all. I am getting involved to do just that- get involved. I only stated IABCA and UKC as really “practice” for my puppy in the long run. I think it would be a good start to “showing. I think my puppy has a nice head and ear-set and actually looks to be maturing very nicely even if she is only 12 weeks old(could be blind by love🤭)I’ll put a picture or two down and see if you all agree(might not be the best of quality as all are off my phone with some editing😆). I have yet to get a stacked photo of her(she’s an active one and I won’t take that away) but I do have enough photos of her face because OH MY GOSH IS SHE ADORABLE OR WHAT?!?!
View attachment 889105


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

What have you been in the breed for years doing?
"in the breed" implies involved. Just curious!


----------



## LittleGoldenofthePrairie (Dec 14, 2021)

Emmdenn said:


> Addie has won classes under breeder judges but no points yet. (She’s only been shown a total of 5 times) in the puppy classes so far. I’m not opposed to sending her out with a handler, knowing she’ll do better with more judges with a handler…but if I do it won’t be until she’s more mature, and I’ll choose a handler who will show a light dog and knows which judges to take her too. So for now I show her myself. One esteemed breeder judge who Addie won under at Morris & Essex told me he really liked her, said she was very pretty but also said “only take her to breeder judges!!”
> 
> You should join the fb group (if you have fb) “English/European Golden Retriever Show Enthusiasts USA”. It’s a group where people share wins they’ve had under various judges with both dogs who are very light and dogs who are European type.
> 
> ...


These are all great suggestions! I’ve just deleted my FB lol guess I’ll be getting it back! I’d LOVE if you could send that list! I don’t think I would mind driving to Canada every once and a while… ADDIE IS GORGEOUS might I add🙂😉🤍


----------



## LittleGoldenofthePrairie (Dec 14, 2021)

Prism Goldens said:


> What have you been in the breed for years doing?
> "in the breed" implies involved. Just curious!


Ah I just realized that could be seen as “deceptive”… I helped groom many Goldens for shows with my friend who worked for a “show groomer” along with hanging out with 4 show Goldens that lived down the street and I’ve owned them my whole life! So really it’s not “involved” it’s “amongst”. 🙈


----------



## LittleGoldenofthePrairie (Dec 14, 2021)

Prism Goldens said:


> What have you been in the breed for years doing?
> "in the breed" implies involved. Just curious!


Also, thank you so much for replying. I’m still working right now but taking a break. I promise I saw it! I recently was looking at judges and saw your Pebbles I believe on one of the wins!


----------



## LittleGoldenofthePrairie (Dec 14, 2021)

Prism Goldens said:


> Also useful- the FB groups Dog Conformaton Critique and Canine Conformation: Evaluations.
> I probably don't remember your puppy right but seems like you went w a breeder who had giardia? And was Mn Eng GRs? So I suggest also you ask some breed people what they see in your stacked photos- If it was MnEng, they don't finish their own dogs so I wouldn't put a lot of stock in their opinion.


I actually got another pup(not the one shown)and I never updated but the emergency vet she went to said they had Giardia but they actually had Coccidia! So the medication that was given did absolutely nothing. It’s was really sad


----------



## LittleGoldenofthePrairie (Dec 14, 2021)

Prism Goldens said:


> Also useful- the FB groups Dog Conformaton Critique and Canine Conformation: Evaluations.
> I probably don't remember your puppy right but seems like you went w a breeder who had giardia? And was Mn Eng GRs? So I suggest also you ask some breed people what they see in your stacked photos- If it was MnEng, they don't finish their own dogs so I wouldn't put a lot of stock in their opinion.


I’m not who that breeder is either???


----------



## LittleGoldenofthePrairie (Dec 14, 2021)

ArkansasGold said:


> I agree with what Robin said above. You can never go into a ring expecting to win as an owner handler, no matter what your dog looks like. And I learned the hard way not I expect something if someone else said “so and so judge will love your dog!” For one, that always makes me feel pressure and I don’t do as well handling. For another, you never know who else is going to be there with a dog that judge may (or may not) also love.
> 
> But, I will add that breeder judges are more likely to be “colorblind” than all-breed judges. Sometimes you will find them on an all-breed panel, but most often they are to be found at specialties. There is a list on the GRCA website of AKC licensed breeder judges.


Thank you so much! I found it and started looking today! It’s such a cool tool!


----------



## LittleGoldenofthePrairie (Dec 14, 2021)

Prism Goldens said:


> Coat color is not what judges point on- but you can spend some time on following dogs with light coat color, and then look on AKC to see who gave them their majors, for instance, or you can (usually easier) look up past judging for each of the judges coming to shows you are looking at and then go back and forth to see what those awarded dogs look like on k9data. I suspect owner handler will be a much bigger issue than coat color- Goldens tend to be handler breed and if you want to compete, you need to be an excellent handler.
> edit: What I mean is don't make the mistake of getting a name and having anticipation of winning if you look around the ring and are the only light coated dog... it's not that simple and coming from the opposite side (mine are usually darker than average) all you can do is hope judge recognizes your dog's excellent structure and not be bothered by coat color. It wouldn't mean much if all it took was 'ok with coat color'...


I was told that if given the choice between a “gold” and a paler colored Golden that judges would choose the Gold one. Strictly because the AKC standard said they are “undesirable”. I’m happy to be getting other perspectives. About the “owner handler” piece. How do you find an excellent handler amongst other handlers? Is there a way to find them or just go to shows and talk to them in person? I plan on visiting a few this summer! Thank you for taking the time to reply!


----------



## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

Wow- dk how someone would confuse cocci with giardia.. you can surely see why we were all pretty astounded puppies were dying, and the whole window open so didn't note odor seemed odd if one has ever smelled giardia stool.

I probably had the breeder wrong if that wasn't you.
Since it isn't them, does your breeder finish AKC champions? And I think - again maybe wrong- you said this was gonna be a service dog? Too many people for my little brain. ..

edit excellent handlers- watch them. 
Ask other Golden people.


----------



## LittleGoldenofthePrairie (Dec 14, 2021)

Prism Goldens said:


> Wow- dk how someone would confuse cocci with giardia.. you can surely see why we were all pretty astounded puppies were dying, and the whole window open so didn't note odor seemed odd if one has ever smelled giardia stool.
> 
> I probably had the breeder wrong if that wasn't you.
> Since it isn't them, does your breeder finish AKC champions? And I think - again maybe wrong- you said this was gonna be a service dog? Too many people for my little brain. ..
> ...





Prism Goldens said:


> Wow- dk how someone would confuse cocci with giardia.. you can surely see why we were all pretty astounded puppies were dying, and the whole window open so didn't note odor seemed odd if one has ever smelled giardia stool.
> 
> I probably had the breeder wrong if that wasn't you.
> Since it isn't them, does your breeder finish AKC champions? And I think - again maybe wrong- you said this was gonna be a service dog? Too many people for my little brain. ..


Yes! It was a TERRIBLE situation for the breeder. She actually is out of country living with her fiancé(I make jokes because I believe this is her 3rd husband and third times the charm🤣) so she hasn’t been in AKC for a while. I believe she mainly shows in Ireland, England, and Norway??? I think that’s right but I’m going off the top of my head.

Oh no haha! I can imagine! You respond and help so many people! I do want her to be able to “make” service dogs but I don’t believe I ever posted about it. And your brain isn’t small!! You have to have a big smart brain to breed goldens properly in my opinion🙂🤍

Thank you! Yes I assumed that would be the case. I’m hoping to also visit a GR specialty if I can’t find how to use the AKC website🤦🏼‍♀️ Maybe I don’t have the brain of a breeder or maybe I just suck at technology🤣


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

LittleGoldenofthePrairie said:


> If you read my post.....


Wow. You might have taken my comment the wrong way.  

Your responses are exactly why putting the time in showing in AKC and watching and listening will help.


----------



## LittleGoldenofthePrairie (Dec 14, 2021)

Megora said:


> Wow. You might have taken my comment the wrong way.
> 
> Your responses are exactly why putting the time in showing in AKC and watching and listening will help.


I wasnt being rude… I can’t see if you read it(not like an Instagram post). I hate “texting” for this very reason.


----------



## LittleGoldenofthePrairie (Dec 14, 2021)

LittleGoldenofthePrairie said:


> I wasnt being rude… I can’t see if you read it(not like an Instagram post). I hate “texting” for this very reason.


And if I weren’t listening and watching why would I be responding and thanking people? I’m here to learn that was the point of joining this forum.


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

LittleGoldenofthePrairie said:


> I wasnt being rude… I can’t see if you read it(not like an Instagram post). I hate “texting” for this very reason.


I explained that getting involved with conformation is about more than just getting your name and face out there so you are seen as a reputable breeder. It's developing an eye and understanding of a breed that you hope to breed. It's an apprenticeship. 

12 week old puppies - are cute, but they are a long way from being all done growing/filling out. Actually, 12 weeks old - I would tell anyone to hang in there and wait and see, because pups tend to be all ears at that age. With a 12 week old puppy, I am looking more at overalls and movement - because sometimes those things can be very telling in a show bred pup.


----------



## LittleGoldenofthePrairie (Dec 14, 2021)

Megora said:


> I explained that getting involved with conformation is about more than just getting your name and face out there so you are seen as a reputable breeder. It's developing an eye and understanding of a breed that you hope to breed. It's an apprenticeship.
> 
> 12 week old puppies - are cute, but they are a long way from being all done growing/filling out. Actually, 12 weeks old - I would tell anyone to hang in there and wait and see, because pups tend to be all ears at that age. With a 12 week old puppy, I am looking more at overalls and movement - because sometimes those things can be very telling in a show bred pup.


And I agree with you but the way you put it seemed quite condescending which may not have been you intentions. I never said I was ONLY doing it for those reasons. My main reasoning RIGHT NOW is to become a knowledgeable golden owner and shows person and THEN I MIGHT be able to breed. Of course that’s pending health clearances and whether or not I can find a male that truly compliments my girl and will allow the litter to improve the breed for future generations.

I said I may be blind by love😉 LOL. That was the point of me saying so! It was a JOKE. I’m just enjoying this stage as it’s short lived. And that picture is from 10 weeks anyways. All her pictures from this week are blurs of her playing around in the mud that used to be snow!😆


----------



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

LittleGoldenofthePrairie said:


> And I agree with you but the way you put it seemed quite condescending which may not have been you intentions.


And the tone of your responses seemed quite personally defensive.... in response to being told conformation has a fairly important purpose for breeders. If you are going to get upset about a very general observation about the sport, how would handle somebody criticizing your dog and telling you what her faults are? How will you improve what you breed, if you can't handle being told what's going on with your specific dog? That's something I did not do in my comment (I do not critique people's dogs unless they ask and I'd quite honestly prefer that somebody like Robin do the critiquing since I still see myself as learning even 9 years in), but I guarantee that down the road if you are going to show and handle your dog productively and make your dog the foundation of everything should she pass clearances, you need to be able to ask people for feedback on your dog's weaknesses while keeping your eyes open to actually see what she has, doesn't have, what other dogs have or don't which helps them win and so on.

Or I guess, put it this way... do you HAVE TO? Nope. But I'm telling you how people I respect approach the sport - and it must work because the pets they place are top show dogs in other people's programs. And this is the case with every litter they produce. That's a preservation breeder who breeds to improve their lines.

If you need me to spell out my intentions as far as this specific comment - it is me expressing exasperation.  But casually like - since I've got to get off the computer and bathe and groom my dogs in prep for obedience and conf practice tomorrow. First open floor training of the new year - and quite timely since it's brutally cold outside and we'll get hit with mondo snow this coming week when I'd normally do drop in classes.  i could skip the grooming, probably - but planning to video the conf practice and send to a couple people who are helping me problem solve a handling issue. And my dogs are pretty hairy around the ears and feet.


----------



## LittleGoldenofthePrairie (Dec 14, 2021)

Megora said:


> And the tone of your responses seemed quite personally defensive.... in response to being told conformation has a fairly important purpose for breeders. If you are going to get upset about a very general observation about the sport, how would handle somebody criticizing your dog and telling you what her faults are? How will you improve what you breed, if you can't handle being told what's going on with your specific dog? That's something I did not do in my comment (I do not critique people's dogs unless they ask and I'd quite honestly prefer that somebody like Robin do the critiquing since I still see myself as learning even 9 years in), but I guarantee that down the road if you are going to show and handle your dog productively and make your dog the foundation of everything should she pass clearances, you need to be able to ask people for feedback on your dog's weaknesses while keeping your eyes open to actually see what she has, doesn't have, what other dogs have or don't which helps them win and so on.
> 
> Or I guess, put it this way... do you HAVE TO? Nope. But I'm telling you how people I respect approach the sport - and it must work because the pets they place are top show dogs in other people's programs. And this is the case with every litter they produce. That's a preservation breeder who breeds to improve their lines.
> 
> If you need me to spell out my intentions as far as this specific comment - it is me expressing exasperation.  But casually like - since I've got to get off the computer and bathe and groom my dogs in prep for obedience and conf practice tomorrow. First open floor training of the new year - and quite timely since it's brutally cold outside and we'll get hit with mondo snow this coming week when I'd normally do drop in classes.  i could skip the grooming, probably - but planning to video the conf practice and send to a couple people who are helping me problem solve a handling issue. And my dogs are pretty hairy around the ears and feet.


Well thank you for spelling it out. I was not being personally defensive, strictly trying to understand; but I can understand where you are coming from. Good luck in your obedience and practice! I dread the day I need to groom ears and feet haha! 

About the critiquing, I’m happy to hear some critiquing of Linnea as I really want to know her weaknesses and her strengths as I think knowing them will allow better insight in the future and to track her growth and how she is maturing.

And thank you for responding with your opinion. All opinions matter and all are good in my eyes.🙂🤍


----------



## HaliaGoldens (Jul 13, 2008)

LittleGoldenofthePrairie said:


> View attachment 889104
> 
> if you read my post you would see that I’m getting into showing to BE INVOLVED. I WANT to be critical…. I actually think I NEED it. Not to mention that I have an amazing breeder who I actually had to leave the country to visit before being allowed on the litter list. She didn’t have a litter for years and I was lucky enough to be considered. I have been involved with dogs(Goldens) for years but not able to show. I had my breeder go over every puppies strengths and I picked out a puppy but I ended up not getting the puppy I picked as the breeder strongly suggested the puppy I have now and I trusted her. I never expected her to to “win big” or even win at all. I am getting involved to do just that- get involved. I only stated IABCA and UKC as really “practice” for my puppy in the long run. I think it would be a good start to “showing. I think my puppy has a nice head and ear-set and actually looks to be maturing very nicely even if she is only 12 weeks old(could be blind by love🤭)I’ll put a picture or two down and see if you all agree(might not be the best of quality as all are off my phone with some editing😆). I have yet to get a stacked photo of her(she’s an active one and I won’t take that away) but I do have enough photos of her face because OH MY GOSH IS SHE ADORABLE OR WHAT?!?!
> View attachment 889105
> ...


What a sweet puppy; I remember when you originally posted some pics of her while she was still at the breeder’s house. I’m curious what her pedigree is. I also have European goldens and know a lot of the lines. I show my own dogs in AKC and know what judges are better for owner handlers. If you’d like to share her pedigree on here (or you can PM it to me if you’d rather and we can discuss that way), I’d be happy to let you know what strengths or weaknesses might be in the pedigree, and what might be good for your girl when it comes to showing (or possible stud dogs in the future if you decide to go that route.)


----------



## LittleGoldenofthePrairie (Dec 14, 2021)

HaliaGoldens said:


> What a sweet puppy; I remember when you originally posted some pics of her while she was still at the breeder’s house. I’m curious what her pedigree is. I also have European goldens and know a lot of the lines. I show my own dogs in AKC and know what judges are better for owner handlers. If you’d like to share her pedigree on here (or you can PM it to me if you’d rather and we can discuss that way), I’d be happy to let you know what strengths or weaknesses might be in the pedigree, and what might be good for your girl when it comes to showing (or possible stud dogs in the future if you decide to go that route.)


I’m currently waiting for her registration details/AKC number to add onto k9data! I’ll send it asap!!! That would be so nice and I’d appreciate it so much!!


----------



## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Just coming back to report that Addie went first in AmBred, took WB and Best of Winners for a 3 point MAJOR this weekend under Michael Faulkner. Light gold AND owner handled...I am still pinching myself because I truly try to have no expectations walking into the ring other than having fun with my dog and maybe walking away with any ribbon.

My young co-own Journey who has NO coat, is a skinny lanky puppy, and has no clue what she's really doing in the ring yet won her 6-9 puppy class.

Maybe some motivation for owner handlers and/or owners of more extreme colors ☺☺


----------



## LittleGoldenofthePrairie (Dec 14, 2021)

Emmdenn said:


> Just coming back to report that Addie went first in AmBred, took WB and Best of Winners for a 3 point MAJOR this weekend under Michael Faulkner. Light gold AND owner handled...I am still pinching myself because I truly try to have no expectations walking into the ring other than having fun with my dog and maybe walking away with any ribbon.
> 
> My young co-own Journey who has NO coat, is a skinny lanky puppy, and has no clue what she's really doing in the ring yet won her 6-9 puppy class.
> 
> Maybe some motivation for owner handlers and/or owners of more extreme colors ☺☺


Ughhh you posted this at the RIGHT time. I was just about crying to my husband that I think I might be making a boo-boo trying to show our light gold pup… I’m so happy for you and Addie!!! Hopefully one of many more wins to come!!!


----------

