# About to Get Serious



## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Jodie, you know I have my own stay problems. So I can't say anything about the stays other than I know how frustrating this can be. >.<

You are one leg away, right? Go for it. I'm going to guess this is going to be a bigger issue for Open, in which case that hand mirror is going to come in handy.

Good luck this weekend.


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

I have never had a stay problem......Until Dooley! He just could not sit still for more than a few seconds. It took months and months to get to where I feel he would be good with stays, but now I just have to work his heeling in different areas until I am confident he won't pull a Flip, I mean do something he thinks is more fun!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Megora said:


> You are one leg away, right? Go for it. I'm going to guess this is going to be a bigger issue for Open, in which case that hand mirror is going to come in handy.
> 
> .


Oh no no no, I didn't post this for encouragement to show, I am determined not show this weekend and I need you guys to help me stay strong! 

The person I take private lessons under, who I guess was looking for a positive side, said this way his 60 days hasn't started and now I can wait to title when there will be a lot of trials in the 60 days and we can try to get some HITs. So I am hoping to bring him back out in October, there will be lots of trials then.

I have something better than a mirror for open stays, I have a periscope


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

Loisiana said:


> I really really wish there was some way I could officially pull his novice entry. Because I know what is going to happen...we will do several stays at the match Friday, some more Saturday, and by Sunday I am going to be thinking "I think he's good now, I should just go ahead and show him." And I DON'T want to rush this, I want to take the time to really really make sure he isn't going to go anywhere.


Well there are a bunch of us on here that can help you stick to that if needed


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Loisiana said:


> Oh no no no, I didn't post this for encouragement to show, I am determined not show this weekend and I need you guys to help me stay strong!
> 
> The person I take private lessons under, who I guess was looking for a positive side, said this way his 60 days hasn't started and now I can wait to title when there will be a lot of trials in the 60 days and we can try to get some HITs. So I am hoping to bring him back out in October, there will be lots of trials then.
> 
> I have something better than a mirror for open stays, I have a periscope


Gotcha.  

I forgot about the 60 days grace period.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

oh boy, during tonights quick training session Flip thought that the sit signal meant to back up three steps, had no idea what the come signal meant, and thought the finish signal meant to jump straight up and bite me on the nose.:doh:

This weekend night be another interesting visit to Flipland


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

hey, good luck, don't forget to have fun! Flip does!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Good luck in your NON-NOVICE classes  He'll do great!

In all seriousness, just back away if you find yourself heading for the Novice check in. Flip deserves to thoroughly understand what a stay means before he is tempted again. 

And honestly, having had a dog lift my Faelan's leg on a sit stay, I would be very very p###ed if the dog that did that was in another trial within a few weeks. PO'd enough so I would refuse, flat out, to be in the same group - once is something that comes under the dogs will be dogs category, a second time within a short period is a handler problem.....


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## wakemup (Feb 6, 2011)

Matches at show sites are worth their wait in gold. Sounds like a wise plan to me. I have delayed finishing a title until the dog could finish it with style, and didn't regret it. I always say you should show in Novice until you get two HIT's, since only two from Novice count towards GRCA obedience Hall of Fame.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Sunrise said:


> Good luck in your NON-NOVICE classes  He'll do great!
> 
> In all seriousness, just back away if you find yourself heading for the Novice check in. Flip deserves to thoroughly understand what a stay means before he is tempted again.
> 
> And honestly, having had a dog lift my Faelan's leg on a sit stay, I would be very very p###ed if the dog that did that was in another trial within a few weeks. PO'd enough so I would refuse, flat out, to be in the same group - once is something that comes under the dogs will be dogs category, a second time within a short period is a handler problem.....


That is exactly the reason that I dont want to rush this. I certainly dont want to risk it happening again. Waiting a few months is certainly worth lessening the risk that he disturb a dog again or get a reputation as a visiting dog.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Good luck and have fun! I like your trainers thinking! It will be perfect to finish his title later in the fall when there are more opportunities for you to show!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Oh wow, Flip's stay problem is so much worse than I thought. I honestly thought it wouldn't be that big of a deal to fix, but I was wrong - the dog broke THREE times in the match tonight, each one to try to visit the dog next to him!

So it looks like I am going to have my work cut out for me, and it's going to be a long long time before we are able to hit the rings again. I guess we'll just play around in rally for the rest of the year while I work on this new issue. 

I'm not really sure what to do except go back to the beginning, hold on to a leash, and stand right in front of him for awhile, and then go from there. I don't know how a dog can go from NEVER EVER breaking a stay line up until a week and a half ago, to this! I can't believe this is happening! Dave Gannon's wife Pat was running the stays, and she was shocked and didn't know what to suggest.

On the plus side, his individual run throughs went well. So I have a dog that can pass open and utility run throughs but not a freaking novice stay!


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Loisiana said:


> Oh wow, Flip's stay problem is so much worse than I thought. I honestly thought it wouldn't be that big of a deal to fix, but I was wrong - the dog broke THREE times in the match tonight, each one to try to visit the dog next to him!
> 
> So it looks like I am going to have my work cut out for me, and it's going to be a long long time before we are able to hit the rings again. I guess we'll just play around in rally for the rest of the year while I work on this new issue.
> 
> ...


Yeah I would go back to the end of the leash and no out of sight stays until he get's it. I would also make him understand breaking is not an option... Might have to do this elsewhere with friends that will allow you to correct. You need to remember he has to understand novice before you ever try out of sight stays..bad Flip! No visiting on stays.... hugs from grandma still!
He will get there I think you moved a little to quick to out of sight stays and now he has to learn to do it right..hang in there kiddo , he will get there!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I haven't done any out of sight practice in weeks! Oh well, every dog has it's issues, right? But I have to say this is the first time I have ever had any dog have an issue with a novice stay. Open, yes, Novice, never until now.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Sorry bout this  I have to believe there must be something he does not understand about the criteria. I am sure once he understands he will get it! Hopefully you get the kinks out now, and then when you get into Open he will have it down!


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## DNL2448 (Feb 13, 2009)

I feel for you sister! Doo was the most frustrating dog to train for stays. I would find as many friends with intact dogs and go back to the beginning. Well, no one said it was going to be easy. Did you get Janice Gunns dvd on proofing? Did it say anything about stays? If you haven't seen it, maybe I'll try to watch it and let you know what she suggests.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

sammydog said:


> I have to believe there must be something he does not understand about the criteria.


Yeah, the criteria of he isn't supposed to move!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Sorry to hear this is turning into a bigger problem.... 

I hates those stays. Hardest darn thing to fix. Are you staying close during these fun matches?


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Loisiana said:


> Yeah, the criteria of he isn't supposed to move!


Unless there is a strange dog next to him... :doh: I still love him, send him to me! I can work on his startlines, no strange dogs will be sitting next to him!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I too would go back to the beginning - not only correcting mistakes but rewarding correct decisions. 6 foot leads (yeah they suck), etc.

Do you have friends with intact dogs? Maybe a female getting ready for her season? Any friends with dogs with hot spots? Freshly groomed dogs, dogs that have been rolling?

Mechanical toys? Rolling balls? Dead silence exploding into applause? Dogs playing with each other but not with him?

I think sometimes that the stays are the only reason I go to obedience classes - and why I ramp up the classes when getting ready to show.

Jodie - in a way it is a good thing the hole in understanding showed up now; once they get to out of sight stays a lack of understanding the stay can be a nightmare; Flip's a very smart boy and he'll get it  You might have the same issue with him I had with my Casey; he gets things so quickly I thought I could gloss over steps - smart dogs can be a challenge!


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## wakemup (Feb 6, 2011)

Hang in there Jodie! Stay problems are certainly not any fun, and I wouldn't wish them on anyone. You are a smart and dedicated trainer with a smart dog, so you will certainly be able to get past Novice. I don't have any other suggestions than the ones everyone else already posted. Just wanted to offer encouragement.


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## wakemup (Feb 6, 2011)

I have a girl in season. Do you want me to have her lay on a towel and ship it to you? I have been at least that evil when proofing in the past when the situation called for it...............


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

wakemup said:


> I have a girl in season. Do you want me to have her lay on a towel and ship it to you? I have been at least that evil when proofing in the past when the situation called for it...............


That would be awesome proofing..great idea...LOL


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