# Miniture Golden Retrievers



## TheHooch (May 9, 2007)

It takes all kinds for all the greedy reasons.

Hooch


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## Lego&Jacub (Jul 18, 2006)

Wow... that's really sad! Did you guys look at all the other mixes they are doing?? Holy cow... looks like they have a number of dogs and they are just mixing and matching to their pleasure!


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

I don't get it...if you want a smaller dog there are many beautiful breeds to choose from. 

Geesh!

Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


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## Nicole&Zack (Feb 27, 2007)

I knew this day would come...
I was at walmart the other day and 2 employees were talking. The young lady said that she is not sure what kinda dog she wants but it has to be a *designer dog*...i said to her that there are enough of those in the shelter. She looked at me kinda funny. The other lady said that her sister breeds pugs.....the younger one...okay...how much. The older lady said $ 700 for a female and $600 for the male. I about died....
I hope she decided not to get a dog at all.....


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## Old Gold Mum2001 (Feb 25, 2007)

Lestorm said:


> I cant believe that this is happening. Whatever will they do next?
> 
> I just wish that these people would stop messing around with these wonderful breeds.
> 
> ...


 
***??? Comfort Goldens??? Mini Goldens??? Less shedding Goldens???
Ok so, in other words these poor dogs are being "designed" because people what, don't want these traits in a GOLDEN? THEN DON"T GET A GOLDEN RETRIEVER!!! Cripes!!!!
That site is hypocritical with it's "required neutering/spaying"

Sounds like a whole lot of experimenting going on 

You're right Hooch, greed!!! Pure and simple!


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

Gosh that's horrible.....although I feel I can't be too much against these so called "designer" dogs, because I have had cockapoos for a very long time.....my first dog was a cockapoo and she was the greatest dog.


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## Jazzys Mom (Mar 13, 2007)

Well, that just raised my blood pressure about 50 points! People like that should be shot --- at the very least fined and not allowed to be within 100 yards of any dog! Did you notice that there is NO WAY to contact them?? That tells me that is a puppy mill that is just mixing and matching as they please! Someone should go in there and take all those "designer" dogs away from them then send the owners to Sibera! Sorry Sibera!

Jazzys Mom


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## Old Gold Mum2001 (Feb 25, 2007)

Jazzys Mom said:


> Well, that just raised my blood pressure about 50 points! People like that should be shot --- at the very least fined and not allowed to be within 100 yards of any dog! Did you notice that there is NO WAY to contact them?? That tells me that is a puppy mill that is just mixing and matching as they please! Someone should go in there and take all those "designer" dogs away from them then send the owners to Sibera! Sorry Sibera!
> 
> Jazzys Mom


Here ya go, lol, burried among list of mixes on the left. What I was hoping to see, was a comment page 

and you're right, saying goes if they have more than one breed, than it's a mill.

*Feel free to call or email us. If calling, we are in the central time zone so PLEASE no calls before 8:00 a.m. or after 10:00 p.m. Central time.*
*We are Located in West Central Wisconsin. About 1 hour E. of St. Paul MN, 3 hours from Madison, WI, 5 hours from Milwaukee, Chicago, and just a little less from Green Bay, WI.*

715-556-8687


Email us


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## FranH (May 8, 2005)

Makes me ill.....ughhhh.....


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## Emmysourgolden (Oct 10, 2007)

And did you see there's an older (I think 5 years old!! not old!!!) male that they're not going to breed anymore so they are selling him!!!  The poor thing's not even house trained!!! Freaking get rid of the breeder when she hits menopause. That poor dog!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

God, gross. Well that took care of my appetite.


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## Bailey & Bentley (Feb 25, 2007)

People just need to leave a good thing alone. What the heck?


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## Charlie06 (Feb 10, 2007)

OMG......what the hell is wrong with people????

I hate going to our local mall with has a pet shop in it with about 15 -20 puppies in small cages. Occasionally they will put one or two out on display where anybody can come up and hold, pet...drop.....IT MAKES ME SICK they these poor puppies are treated...and they are sold for about $1000 ....so what happens to all these puppies when they are not sold???? I'm sorry, I got a little off topic here but ARRRGGGRRR..


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## AndyFarmer (Jul 9, 2007)

We've had a few cocker/goldens come through our rescue...they are cute but yes, definately 'mini' goldens. they were adopted, so all is well in the end. I don't agree with this mix though. Let a golden be a golden.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Those people should be ashamed of theirselves. I am sick to my stomach the number of dogs and breeds they are crossing. And the PRICES are way out of line. They are throwing fancy names on mutts. If people want a golden get a golden. If you want a smaller dog than get another breed. I couldnt believe the prices that they are charging for the goldendoodles. At our local shelter their is a golden doodle right now, and you can have him for $75 and spayed or neutered. 
SHAME SHAME SHAME on those people.


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## Goldndust (Jul 30, 2005)

What I find more amazing is there asking price....and too think there are those out there that will pay it.

Some people have not a clue as to what they are paying for I guess. Your not going to make a breed with just using two dogs and get the same out of them if they were bred, in this case they know it so are saying all dogs must be spayed/neutered. 

This isn't a breed at all, this can be found at your nearest shelter if you keep an eye on it for under a 100 dollors here.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

My neighbors rescued from a rescue down south a Daschund/Golden Retriever. I guess they are mixing everything!


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## Luvinmygoldens (Jul 16, 2007)

I hate to see things like this. The amount of money these people are asking for these "designer dogs" is just outrageous! I don't really think the claims they make about these dogs is fair to the potential puppy buyers. After breeding these dogs together for just a couple of generations, how can they claim they will be "just this size" or "hypoallergenic" or "non-shedding"? How do they *really* know how these dogs will turn out? Just yesterday there was an ad I read (we have a free internet classified ad site) that a lady put on blasting away about the "goldendoodle" breedings. She warned people about buying these dogs for unreal prices and warned them about false claims of any of these dogs being "registered", it was quite a long ad. The ad was taken off very quickly, not even lasting a day I don't think. I don't know who removed the ad, the host of the site or the lady who posted it. My problem with it is when I think of what would happen to all dog breeds if everyone started jumping on the "designer dog breeding" bandwagon. Mixing this breed with that one, thinking they'll make huge profits. We'd have a mess! I hope it doesn't come to that. We think our shelters are full now?!? I've had many loveable mixed breed pups in my life and I've loved them *all* to pieces, but I just can't agree with purposely mass producing them for profit.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

And mini-goldendoodles? Wow....


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

cubbysan said:


> My neighbors rescued from a rescue down south a Daschund/Golden Retriever. I guess they are mixing everything!


But was that purposely mixed? Or just a mutt?

A golden weiner....

Years and years ago, we came across a dachshund/lab mix at a party.... Looked just like a lab, but shorter legs....and a longer body....


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## boyd114 (Mar 7, 2007)

I thin i'll stick to the normal size retreiver!!! lol


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## gisabella (May 23, 2007)

When I saw the picture of the "comfort golden" I immediately thought it looked like a cocker spaniel! I had one in my childhood, and she was bought from a backyard breeder, had awful temperament, aggression, and went blind at 2 years of age!! 

I like cocker spaniels, but I do not think they should be mixed with Golden Retrievers. Their temperaments are totally unique, and you cannot guarantee that the dog will be healthy, or with good temperament, let alone "mini"!! The prices are ridiculous, and the breeder sounds like she has had many complaints from concerned dog lovers. 

If they want a "mini" golden they should just get a nova scotia duck tollar! They look very similar to goldens and are small  and they should leave our GRs alone!


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## BELLA (Nov 13, 2006)

How do you contact these idiots? The email thing doesn't work, where is the comment section?? I'd love to give these freaks a piece of my mind, or whats left of it.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

BELLA said:


> How do you contact these idiots? The email thing doesn't work, where is the comment section?? I'd love to give these freaks a piece of my mind, or whats left of it.


That's a waste of time.....as long as there are people willing to pay those prices, they're gonna keep doing it...


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## Elway&Prince (Sep 6, 2007)

why, is all I have to say. I wonder where they are at, I bet if you look on petfinder you'll find plenty of mini goldens in shelters near them because they can't find homes so just ditch them in the shelters. I'd just wait until the puppy was considered "too old" and they ditch it in the shelter than I'd just adopt it from there. There's no way I'd give my money to them.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Since my pure-bred Lucky came to me from an undedicated, totally ignorant breeder, as a near death sickly puppy, with no guarentees and absolutely no background information.....I tend to look at the positives on this website.

She offers a two year health guarentee. Something like that is naturally going to raise the price of any puppy....mixed or pure. That is a big obligation and I respect any breeder who includes it. It doesn't bother me if she has a profit in there, as long as the prospective owners are screened. All breeders price their puppies what the market will bear.



She doesn't make false claims on size....and goes on and on about the risks of not getting exactly what you planned for, fully preparing the prospective owners to be disappointed in the case it doesn't turn out how they planned.

Their are things I don't like about her website, but it is not relevant because the anger is not in how she treats her animals really...but her philosophy. 

I do think it absolutely wrong to intimidate or harrass someone who has a different philosophy. That reminds me of nutty animal rights activists that destroy businesses because they don't like animals being eaten, or enviromentalists that vandelize suvs on car lots.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

RickGibbs said:


> But was that purposely mixed? Or just a mutt?
> 
> A golden weiner....
> 
> Years and years ago, we came across a dachshund/lab mix at a party.... Looked just like a lab, but shorter legs....and a longer body....


I have no idea because she was a rescue. She looks more like a Golden though.


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## Augustus McCrae's Mom (Aug 14, 2007)

I don't want to say anything in regards to this particular breeder and their practices, but I think that as long as a breeder is responsible and ethical then mixing breeds is okay if you're doing it for a good reason. (I know, "responsible," "ethical," and "good" are relative terms, but you know what I mean). A Golden Retriever only exists today because someone decided to mix a bunch of other breeds together to get the traits he wanted. 

Golden Retriever - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## kwikrnu (Dec 2, 2007)

Augustus McCrae's Mom said:


> I don't want to say anything in regards to this particular breeder and their practices, but I think that as long as a breeder is responsible and ethical then mixing breeds is okay if you're doing it for a good reason. (I know, "responsible," "ethical," and "good" are relative terms, but you know what I mean). A Golden Retriever only exists today because someone decided to mix a bunch of other breeds together to get the traits he wanted.
> 
> Golden Retriever - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


You are someone with whom I can agree. :jamming:


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

kwikrnu said:


> You are someone with whom I can agree. :jamming:


Unfortunately 99% of them are only doing it for $$$$$$.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

cubbysan said:


> Unfortunately 99% of them are only doing it for $$$$$$.


I was looking at the prices on this particular site and they are not charging anywhere near what I've seen with other sites.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

This is nauseating. And they're selling 'black' goldens?! Isn't that the least bit odd? But then, the whole idea of 'designer dogs' is odd and repulsive. I guess my Mila is a designer dog; she appears to be yellow Lab and beagle. And she was dumped in Houston, probably because she was pregnant.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Jackson'sMom said:


> And they're selling 'black' goldens?! Isn't that the least bit odd?


Yeah....I saw that.... Black and golden....seems kinda oxy-moron...


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Augustus McCrae's Mom said:


> A Golden Retriever only exists today because someone decided to mix a bunch of other breeds together to get the traits he wanted.


Creating a new breed is a long term committment that goes way beyond just mixing a few breeds together. To be considered a "Breed" like dogs when paired together must reproduce themselves true to type for several generations. 

Mini-Goldens, Comfort Goldens, Goldendoodles and the others are not "Breeds" at all. They are nothing more than the garden variety mix that you can easily find at your local shelter. 

There are plenty of mixes available in shelters, there is no reason to purposely produce them.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

There are plenty of mixes available in shelters, there is no reason to purposely produce them.

Amen to that!!


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Jackson'sMom said:


> This is nauseating. And they're selling 'black' goldens?! Isn't that the least bit odd? But then, the whole idea of 'designer dogs' is odd and repulsive. I guess my Mila is a designer dog; she appears to be yellow Lab and beagle. And she was dumped in Houston, probably because she was pregnant.


 
You'll find tons of "designer dogs" at your local shelter. Years ago we called them "mutts".

I have less of a problem with a breeder that has a lot of knowledge in genetics, and is trying to "create" a new breed, which takes generations. I believe they go Hybrid1, Hybrid2, etc. Once you get to hybrid5 and are breeding with other hybrid5's then they dogs have more of a standard. But all those hybrids before hand are just that hybrids.

I did meet a family that had two labradoodles. The dogs came from a breeder in Australia, that were doing a very planned breeding program. These dogs were 5 years apart, and different parents, but they looked exactly alike (size, fur texture, face) except for color. These breeders also did their clearances. The owners said it took them a lot of research to find a good breeder and they had to leave the US to do it. I think this is done ethically.


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## HoldensMom (Dec 3, 2007)

Jackson'sMom said:


> And they're selling 'black' goldens?! Isn't that the least bit odd?


isn't that pretty much a flat-coated retriever?

I'm with augustus, as long as they're responsible i'm ok with it. I just wish they would offer them at a respectable price (ie. less than a registered breed) as they are techincally still mutts. I do have to wonder about breeding a cocker and golden as those are two dog breeds with known skin problems. I thought the point of these mixes was to produce dogs with less health disparities???


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

HoldensMom said:


> I do have to wonder about breeding a cocker and golden as those are two dog breeds with known skin problems. I thought the point of these mixes was to produce dogs with less health disparities???


and a golden and standard poodle ....look at the genetic problems in each breed, yah I'd want to double that gene pool:uhoh:...and oh they won't shed!! who says they won't???? and frankly! they are ugly...I could think of much better ways to waste my $$ ...I think half of the interest is the "stupid" names they are hanging on them....


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## HoldensMom (Dec 3, 2007)

arcane said:


> and frankly! they are ugly


HA! i think so too!!! if i wanted a bearded shaggy mutt i'd go to the shelter.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

arcane said:


> and a golden and standard poodle ....look at the genetic problems in each breed, yah I'd want to double that gene pool:uhoh:...and oh they won't shed!! who says they won't???? and frankly! they are ugly...I could think of much better ways to waste my $$ ...I think half of the interest is the "stupid" names they are hanging on them....


 
I agree with that. They try to make the names as cutsy as can be.


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## Kzwicker (Aug 14, 2007)

Thats just silly! Who wants a mini golden!! Its called a puppy


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

cubbysan said:


> I agree with that. They try to make the names as cutsy as can be.


A bulldog and a shitz zu (spelling:uhoh oh I own a "********" te hehe heee 
PPPPPLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEE


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

cubbysan said:


> You'll find tons of "designer dogs" at your local shelter. Years ago we called them "mutts".
> 
> LOL, I like that!!
> 
> ...


I saw a program on NG called "Designer Dogs" there was a lady in Australia who bred Labradoodles and Goldendoodles and some other mix. She has commerical kennel. It was just disgusting she put out something like 200 litters a year. Just a huge operation. She was just a segment of the program.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

I didn't see any misrepresentations on the website... all breeds of dogs began as mutts... or "designer mutts" if you like. We all like to play God sometimes (think of how much fun The Sims is to play) and some people do so with dogs, they are called breeders. This person sees a market niche and is attempting to fill it... and acknowledges the vagaries of genetics as best we know it and seems aware its going to take much time and many generations to 'create' this "Mini" version with any degree of predictability in physical characteristics. It seems to me this person is being quite honest on the website... so I guess my problem would be with the people who would wish to purchase a 'pocket Golden'... but in the end it is all business, if they keep it honest and humane, then what's the beef? really?


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## jason0618 (Sep 17, 2007)

My favorite is the black golden... ***?!?
*Miniature golden Retriever pricing as follows:*
*Blacks $750*
*Gold female $950*
*Gold Male $850*
*Socialization, love and temperament.......Priceless!*
*A nonrefundable deposit of $200 will hold your puppy until weaning.*


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## ellabella (Dec 7, 2007)

I am new here so I will risk going out on a limb. Weren't goldens orignially (and responsibly) cross-bred to be very good waterfowl dogs? I would think almost all common breeds were cross-bred at some point. 

P.S. I'm not arguing against those who believe this to be irresponsible because they are doing something unhealthy to the dogs. I am just not informed enough to know what the health effects of breeding smaller goldens or golded-doodles are.


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

i sent this "breeder" an email including a link to this thread....we'll see if i hear anything back :crossfing


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

arcane said:


> and a golden and standard poodle ....look at the genetic problems in each breed, yah I'd want to double that gene pool:uhoh:...and oh they won't shed!! who says they won't???? and frankly! they are ugly...I could think of much better ways to waste my $$ ...I think half of the interest is the "stupid" names they are hanging on them....


But...there are goldendoodle breeders who are "legitimately" trying to mix the two for less shedding and alergy issues. My bosses with is allergic to dogs, but has a poodle and a toy poodle. She'd love to have a golden and has looked some at goldendoodles because of her allergies.

Who knows....fifty years from now, maybe they will have perfected the goldendoodle mix.... (if you can consider anything mixed with poodle perfected).


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Ash said:


> I saw a program on NG called "Designer Dogs" there was a lady in Australia who bred Labradoodles and Goldendoodles and some other mix. She has commerical kennel. It was just disgusting she put out something like 200 litters a year. Just a huge operation. She was just a segment of the program.


I hope that wasn't where they got theirs from. These were just people I met at the mall, and it sounded like they had done their homework.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

ellabella said:


> I am new here so I will risk going out on a limb. Weren't goldens orignially (and responsibly) cross-bred to be very good waterfowl dogs? I would think almost all common breeds were cross-bred at some point.
> 
> P.S. I'm not arguing against those who believe this to be irresponsible because they are doing something unhealthy to the dogs. I am just not informed enough to know what the health effects of breeding smaller goldens or golded-doodles are.


While there are many more qualified people on this board to speak to the possible "health issues" of specific crossings, I think the factor that truly bothers most people is the way in which these designer dogs are created. You are absolutely right that all breeds originally began by crossbreeding. However, the intent was to create a breed. This means that eventually (let's say at the 5th generation) you would be able to breed one of these dogs created by the crossing to another and reliably get puppies that shares the appearance, temperment, etc of the parents. Today's "designer dogs" on the other hand are consistently first generation crosses (meaning, for example, the result of breeding a golden retriever and a poodle). There is no further goal being sought. Now I do believe I have heard of breeders overseas that are, in fact, trying to create a self-sustaining "golden doodle" breed (as an example). Many would see this as being more acceptable. I don't know if that made any sense, but hope it helped a bit.

Julie and Jersey


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

Yuck ... this is stupid! People are really endangering their dogs, I mean, isnt this harmful?


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

arcane said:


> A bulldog and a shitz zu (spelling:uhoh oh I own a "********" te hehe heee
> PPPPPLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEE


That is funny! My kids have been asking for a "Puggle".

Actually the shih-tzu was originally the cross breed of a Pekingese and a Lhasa Apso. In the 1950's, the breed ended up being terribly inbred, so the Pekingese had to be introduced back into the breed. These breedings had to go another 5 generations (I think) before they could be considered pure bred shih tzus again.

My cat is a Himilayan, and that was a created breed in the 1930's(?) by Harvard University.


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

here is the response i got from this breeder when i emailed her the link to this thread......she did explain herself well...however...there arent THAT many 80-100 pound goldens out there....jake is full grown and is 60 pounds...?? hmm.. at least shes not claiming they are purebred...

heres her response:

Wow, you guys are seem to just really like to gossip and tear people apart that don't think like you. I'm sorry that you think you can just attack others. It is still a free county so I will still do as I feel is best while the rest of you can keep on inbreeding and destroying the breed that you claim to love so much. Goldens ARE an excellent breed!!!! Someone said on your forum......... there are many small dog choices if they want a small dog. Yeah well no small dog compares to a golden Retriever!!!!! If you really looked at our site you would see that I primarily plan to breed at least 75 % golden retriever! Why do you think that is? BECAUSE THEY ARE MORE LIKE THE PUREBRED GOLDENS!!!! I am in no way trying to destroy anything! People are fed up and discouraged about the 80-120lb golden retrievers that they are seeing. Where the heck did those come from??? Along with all of their hip problems, not to mention heart and eye problems. Those are from "Purebred" breeders. How dare you and your band of hyenas criticize me when I am at least breeding healthy animals that will enable many more people to enjoy this wonderful breed. Now, go ahead and get back to your life of bashing and gossip. I have other things to do


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

HoldensMom said:


> isn't that pretty much a flat-coated retriever?
> 
> I'm with augustus, as long as they're responsible i'm ok with it. I just wish they would offer them at a respectable price (ie. less than a registered breed) as they are techincally still mutts. I do have to wonder about breeding a cocker and golden as those are two dog breeds with known skin problems. I thought the point of these mixes was to produce dogs with less health disparities???


http://www.grca.org/pec/doodle.pdf

The information in the above article is relevant to all mixes. The so-called "breeders" of "designer" dogs are using the term "hybrid" incorrectly as a marketing tool. It takes generations before mixes breed true. The over-simplified statement that if it weren't for mixes we wouldn't have Goldens does not take into consideration the years of work done to get to where the breed is today. This studied crossing of particular breeds for specific traits was not done just for the cutesy name factore.
I find the practice abhorrent. Go ahead. Mix two breeds together. But do NOT falsely claim that they are going to be non-shedding, free of disease, and "soon to be recongnized by the AKC." And don't charge people exhorbitant prices, particularly when the "breeder" has put nothing into these breedings that would justify.
If KwikLube or anyone else wants to label me a snob in regards to this, I'll GLADLY wear that badge. This is nothing more than a rip-off.


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## Heidi36oh (Feb 27, 2007)

I ran across a add in the paper today, Golden doodles $ 500 AKC reg. yeah right, I had a notion to call and find out about these pups. There is no way there AKC is there?















​*Jack, Peanut and Rusty*​*
*


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Heidi36oh said:


> I ran across a add in the paper today, Golden doodles $ 500 AKC reg. yeah right, I had a notion to call and find out about these pups. There is no way there AKC is there?


Absolutely NOT! AKC registers PURE BRED DOGS. "Doodles" are not.

Perhaps the "AKC" they refer to is the Absolutey Krap Certification.

Sheesh.


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## Heidi36oh (Feb 27, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> Absolutely NOT! AKC registers PURE BRED DOGS. "Doodles" are not.
> 
> Perhaps the "AKC" they refer to is the Absolutey Krap Certification.
> 
> Sheesh.


 
LOL, didn't think so, wonder how many people fall for this one


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## jaxson (Oct 9, 2007)

RickGibbs said:


> But...there are goldendoodle breeders who are "legitimately" trying to mix the two for less shedding and alergy issues. My bosses with is allergic to dogs, but has a poodle and a toy poodle. She'd love to have a golden and has looked some at goldendoodles because of her allergies.
> 
> Who knows....fifty years from now, maybe they will have perfected the goldendoodle mix.... (if you can consider anything mixed with poodle perfected).


 
Our neighbor has the "doodle". The dog is a genetic nightmare. Cannot be trained and is as big as a standard poodle. Has just about eaten the house including cabinets and flooring! But they love it just the same. At least he does.

I was at a local pet/dog show this past winter and stopped to look at a golden. It appeared odd due to its size and I inquired as to the age. When he told me the dog was 3 years old I about flipped and thats when he told me it was a miniature. Never heard of them until that day. Don't believe I have seen any adds for them either.

Jaxson


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

I just sent an e-mail. maybe i was a litle harsh, but in my opinion there are alreay to many mutts being put to sleep in pounds and more don't need to be created. This is a copy of the e-mail i sent.

**************************************************************

How in the world is a 3/4 golden and a 1/4 cocker a "mini golden? It is mutt, plain and simple. All these "designer dogs" are mutts, no matter what fancy name and high dollar price tag is attached. i have pure goldens, and i also have an adopted golden-sight hound mix--vet feels either greyhound, whippet or possibily saluki. She is not a "goluki" or a "goldhound" or a goldpet--she is a mutt, plain and simple. She is a wonderful dog and we adore her. And we only payed $45 for her at the local rescue and she had been spayed and given shots. 

There are to many mutts in this world now with more being created under some fancy name and retirement account pricetag. I think if anyone wants a mutt they should just go to the pound and save some poor dog's life, not spend their child's college tutition on a fancy named mutt.

Golden lover Sandra


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

jaxson said:


> Our neighbor has the "doodle". The dog is a genetic nightmare. Cannot be trained and is as big as a standard poodle. Has just about eaten the house including cabinets and flooring! But they love it just the same. At least he does.
> 
> I was at a local pet/dog show this past winter and stopped to look at a golden. It appeared odd due to its size and I inquired as to the age. When he told me the dog was 3 years old I about flipped and thats when he told me it was a miniature. Never heard of them until that day. Don't believe I have seen any adds for them either.
> 
> Jaxson


I'm not saying that any of these mixes now are anywhere close to what they say they want them to be....I just thing there may be doodle breeders who are truly breeding for a shed-free dog that's at least related to goldens and won't bother allergies as much.

The problem with that is that there are also many who are in it just for the quick money.

I've seen websites where "breeders" are selling "comfort retrievers," cocker/golden mixes....and asking astronomical prices for them....$2500 and up.

This site we're talking about isn't anywhere close to that....but still, I don't know how a person could spend $800 for a puppy that can't even be registered...


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

foreveramber said:


> "Now, go ahead and get back to your life of bashing and gossip. I have other things to do"


I added the quotes so everyone will know this is quoted from they e-mail, and not foreveramber....

I would think that a serious breeder would at least understand peoples concerns..... How can a person be involved in the breeding world and not know that golden people would question it?


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

I'm stupid about this stuff......but can a breeder of mixes like this still certify each parent (hips, etc), of the two breeds they're mixing?


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## MisterBailey (Jun 28, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> http://www.grca.org/pec/doodle.pdf
> 
> The information in the above article is relevant to all mixes. The so-called "breeders" of "designer" dogs are using the term "hybrid" incorrectly as a marketing tool. It takes generations before mixes breed true. The over-simplified statement that if it weren't for mixes we wouldn't have Goldens does not take into consideration the years of work done to get to where the breed is today. This studied crossing of particular breeds for specific traits was not done just for the cutesy name factore.
> I find the practice abhorrent. Go ahead. Mix two breeds together. But do NOT falsely claim that they are going to be non-shedding, free of disease, and "soon to be recongnized by the AKC." And don't charge people exhorbitant prices, particularly when the "breeder" has put nothing into these breedings that would justify.
> If KwikLube or anyone else wants to label me a snob in regards to this, I'll GLADLY wear that badge. This is nothing more than a rip-off.


I agree with you. Does that me a snob too? lol

I think the difference between crossing two breeds to create goldens and other breeds years ago is that they were done for a purpose in mind (hunting etc) and not to line peoples pockets with money from other people who want to claim to have a "designer" dog. I was recently talking with someone whos friend owns several designer dogs and has endless issues with their health. Her vet bills must be insane on top of the huge purchase price. The mixes are way too new for anyone to claim they'll be this size or that size and not have whatever health problems. Every time I go past the pet shop they have a new fancy named puppy. They go for over $1000 each. 

I can kind of see the reasoning in breeding goldens or labs with poodles to try and create a lesser shedding breed that can be useful for training as service dogs. They have a purpose other than $$$


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## naderalmaleh (Dec 11, 2007)

This is sick!!!!!!!


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

The problem is, many of these mixes are not being bred with any intention of creating a functional breed for a needed purpose. Typically, we are talking about mills, dogs living in horrendous conditions with little or no socialization. Petcitypets.com here in Michigan, just take a look at all the different mixes they've created and the website screams puppymill. It is simply mixing dogs so people think they have something unique. Unfortunately, if people were not so vain, there would be no market for this kind of thing.

The response foreveramber got...typical response from a shady character. I remember only too well a non reputable breeder on this list who would get defensive, rude and scream in posts. People that are not on the up and up tend to resort to name calling and screaming rather than respond politely.

Whenever you see pages and pages of availabe "designer mixes" it is always a mill and the dogs producing those puppies are living in hell.

Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke (who will never see again because the miller did not care for Duke's eyes...whenever you buy from a mill situation you promote abuse).


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Yes Rick, as far as I know any dog can get a health clearance, pure or mixed. I believe I have seen Golden and labradoodle listings on OFA, but maybe memory is not serving me correctly. Certainly one could OFA a poodle, OFA a Golden, and breed them together. One could even in theory purchase dogs of each breed for generations of clearances and top quality and breed them together. Good luck finding such a breeder, though, willing to sell you one for that purpose!


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## athena23 (Dec 12, 2007)

i would like too, but there is a lot of things worse that they do, i prefer this, because i dont want to see animal get kill !!! 




Lestorm said:


> I cant believe that this is happening. Whatever will they do next?
> 
> I just wish that these people would stop messing around with these wonderful breeds.
> 
> ...


 
{Spam Removed}


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## Misslane&lois (Nov 18, 2007)

it's amazing this--... i get very angry and sad when something like this is happening in the world.
I watched a documentary about animal miniatures and it's reallyhorrible!!!!! these animals are inside boxes and they don't grow this way. horrible!


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## maggie1951 (Apr 20, 2007)

Lestorm said:


> I cant believe that this is happening. Whatever will they do next?
> 
> I just wish that these people would stop messing around with these wonderful breeds.
> 
> ...


I agree with you.
We could never got over how small Daisy was when we picked her up from you but she is just perfect in every way.
Charlie the other dog we have from the IRR is small as well not quite as small as Daisy but it makes you wonder what they do over there and why they seem so small from Ireland !!!

Maggie


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## kwikrnu (Dec 2, 2007)

cubbysan said:


> Unfortunately 99% of them are only doing it for $$$$$$.


It is against the law for a breeder to make money? Next time you buy a purebred golden from a successful breeder ask to see their tax returns for the last several years.

A golden doodle should be a smart dog and with a lot less shedding than a purebred golden plus I think they look nice. I'd bet 90% of people who own goldens do not use them for retrieving fowl. They are purely pets the owner choose because they are friendly, smart and look good.

I don't understand why people are against these beautiful dogs. To each their own.


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

RickGibbs said:


> I added the quotes so everyone will know this is quoted from they e-mail, and not foreveramber....
> 
> I would think that a serious breeder would at least understand peoples concerns..... How can a person be involved in the breeding world and not know that golden people would question it?


 
i emailed her back and said "why are you against oversized goldens, but are ok with creating undersize ones??"

and this is the response....i agree with her somewhat:

Thank you for being civil and decent in talking to me. :O) The over sized ones tend to have horrible health issues. Other than that.......I have no problem with it. The smaller ones if they were purebred would then require breeding the smallest and sometimes least healthy ones. This also would be unhealthy. Therefore breeding a mix that compliments instead of takes away is the best way to achieve the goal. I do not want to take anything away from the golden other than its size. And maybe........some hip issues. Improving that is not such a bad thing is it? I am not misrepresenting what I am doing. It is clearly posted in big letters on my site that this is a mix. People get this silly notion that "mutts" are what end up in shelters. This could not be farther from the truth. Pure bred dogs often end up in shelters too. Any breeder that ships their puppy off on a truck.........is contributing to this. Pet stores are contributing to this...........
As far as health and temperament go.........Those are my key goals. Raising "family pets" that are safe for all in the family. That would be.........a golden retriever. However......many do not have the room and energy for some of the goldens that are being bred today. This just gives them another option. 

You have to admit that a "mutt" has always been longer lived and healthier then most pure bred dogs. How many people have you heard say "The best dog I ever had as a kid was a mutt" ?Seriously.......what is the real issue here?


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

Misslane&lois said:


> it's amazing this--... i get very angry and sad when something like this is happening in the world.
> I watched a documentary about animal miniatures and it's reallyhorrible!!!!! these animals are inside boxes and they don't grow this way. horrible!


 
im pretty sure that is NOT what this breeder is doing...she is breeding cockers and small goldens together...not restricting their growth.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

kwikrnu said:


> It is against the law for a breeder to make money? Next time you buy a purebred golden from a successful breeder ask to see their tax returns for the last several years.
> 
> A golden doodle should be a smart dog and with a lot less shedding than a purebred golden plus I think they look nice. I'd bet 90% of people who own goldens do not use them for retrieving fowl. They are purely pets the owner choose because they are friendly, smart and look good.
> 
> I don't understand why people are against these beautiful dogs. To each their own.


Hear's an idea - why don't you, Kwikie, get yourself a beautiful GoldenDoodle? Make sure you read the article I posted earlier in the thread. You can then join a nice Doodle Forum, and bash the hell out of those of us who are just plain too stupid to see why it's perfectly fine to breed mutts and sell them for ridiculous sums of money, under the pretense of them being something that they are not. (I've had approximately 2 dozen "doodles" come through my classes - yeah, I know - hard to believe that people would take classes from someone as ignorant as me - and with the exception of 2 of them, the owners admitted to being sorely disappointed in them - they do shed. They are not "hypoallergenic". Several HAVE had the hereditary health issues of one or both of their parent's breeds...) Anyway, I'm sure that your imperial wisdom regarding all things dog would be so appreciated on a friendly Doodle Forum that they'd probably make you head moderator. You can find a swell Poodle to breed your Golden to, and shoot - you won't even have to go through the expense of getting clearances, so you'd realize pure profit! We'd miss you here, of course...

Oh, as an aside. When I was claiming my kennel as a business, during the years when I was handling many dogs for clients, had training dogs in regularly, and was breeding as many as TWO litters per year and managing an active stud dog, my bottom line was always negative. And I am honest when it comes to the IRS because they scare me.


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

how did a thread about mini golden retrievers become so hateful? 

everyone has their own opinions, dont they? why are some wrong, and others right?

opinions are like buttholes....we all have them, and they all stink. (sorry, gross but its true)


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

Personally, I would worry more about health issues with the mix than I would with a golden who had a a responsible breeding program. I would have to question what responsible breeder would have sold a breeding puppy to somebody that was cross breeding with a poodle. I would suspect the goldendoodle breeder would be getting goldens that may very easily have little thought and care put into their genetics and HD would indeed be a major concern.

Poodles...they've had their share of health problems over the years too. And again, I would worry about the quality of the poodles that were being used. I can imagine a reputable poodle breeder would be thrilled with the prospect of her dogs being mixed with goldens.

When I was searching for a miniature poodle for my MIL a few years ago, I contacted a poodle club in southeastern Michigan. I was shocked to receive such a small list of miniature poodle breeders (not talking toy or teacup). I asked why there were so few and she explained to me that back in the 70's the miniature poodle was so over bred and so poorly bred that the genetic problems were monumental. I was told that it was very difficult to find good lines and that was why there were so few reputable breeders to choose from. Makes me wonder what the quality of poodles are that these designer dogs are being mixed with.

Foreveramber, I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that by mixing the poodle and the golden, that breeder will have a smaller chance of hip dysplasia. I fear she is just breeding double trouble.


Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

foreveramber said:


> i emailed her back and said "why are you against oversized goldens, but are ok with creating undersize ones??"
> 
> and this is the response....i agree with her somewhat:
> 
> ...


 
Having worked for many years in vet clinics, I will say that it cannot be said, unequivocably, that "mutts" are longer lived and healther than most purebred dogs. Most people who have "mutts", and in general, MOST "pet people" (not like the majority of the people on this Forum...) do not go the extra mile/extra dollar to do any health testing. Mutts DO have heart problems, mutts DO have hip and elbow dysplasia, mutts DO have a variety of eye problems. Just because you don't look for it doesn't mean that it's not there. And, when a pet dies, MOST owners do not do necropsy to determine cause of death. As far as living longer? I've seen mutts that have lived a very long time, but shouldn't have. By that I mean that even when their dogs were crippled, blind, incontinent, and truly not living with quality of life, they would not do the kindest final act of love for them, but rather, because they did loved them and were selfish in wanting to keep them with them, they let them suffer. It was seeing this occur all too frequently that I vowed that I would NEVER let any of my dogs suffer indignity, and when it became apparent that quality of life were lacking, I would humanely euthanize. That is not to say that it is ever easy, nor is it a decision I have ever made lightly. I have a fantastic relationship with my vet, and have made a pact with him that if EVER I were allowing a dog to go past the point where they are uncomfortable or unhappy or undignified, he will tell me. I knew that there would be a possibility that I would have a problem when it came to Lyric, and also Dave. But, I believe that it is the most unselfish gift of love that we can give our precious veterans when the time comes. 
All that said, I think that it is irresponsible for blanket statements such as "everyone knows that mutts do not have the health problems that purebred dogs do" to be made as if there is proof. THere is not, and in fact, truth be told, there is plenty of evidence to indicate otherwise. Responsible breeders of purebred dogs are doing far more to decrease the incidence of genetic health issues than anyone producing "designer" dogs, or even purebred dogs without careful thought to any particular breeding. Which is why it is SO frustrating for those of us who do when we make one step forward only to have irresponsible breeders move us two steps back.


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## kwikrnu (Dec 2, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> Hear's an idea - why don't you, Kwikie, get yourself a beautiful GoldenDoodle? Make sure you read the article I posted earlier in the thread. You can then join a nice Doodle Forum, and bash the hell out of those of us who are just plain too stupid to see why it's perfectly fine to breed mutts and sell them for ridiculous sums of money, under the pretense of them being something that they are not. (I've had approximately 2 dozen "doodles" come through my classes - yeah, I know - hard to believe that people would take classes from someone as ignorant as me - and with the exception of 2 of them, the owners admitted to being sorely disappointed in them - they do shed. They are not "hypoallergenic". Several HAVE had the hereditary health issues of one or both of their parent's breeds...) Anyway, I'm sure that your imperial wisdom regarding all things dog would be so appreciated on a friendly Doodle Forum that they'd probably make you head moderator. You can find a swell Poodle to breed your Golden to, and shoot - you won't even have to go through the expense of getting clearances, so you'd realize pure profit! We'd miss you here, of course...
> 
> Oh, as an aside. When I was claiming my kennel as a business, during the years when I was handling many dogs for clients, had training dogs in regularly, and was breeding as many as TWO litters per year and managing an active stud dog, my bottom line was always negative. And I am honest when it comes to the IRS because they scare me.


I don't have to buy a doodle if I breed my purebred golden to a miniature poodle I can get one free and sell the rest. Maybe I can lose some money too after I deduct some travel, feed, vet bills, insurance, water, electric and part of my mortgage.


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## PeanutsMom (Oct 14, 2007)

PG , I would suggest that you block this guy.He is making statements I doubt he even believes in simply to piss you off.I'm still reading cause I sometimes enjoy looking at nasty things


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

kwikrnu said:


> I don't have to buy a doodle if I breed my purebred golden to a miniature poodle I can get one free and sell the rest. Maybe I can lose some money too after I deduct some travel, feed, vet bills, insurance, water, electric and part of my mortgage.


Go for it. Then you can call them Mini Goldendoodles. You could try a Black Mini Poodle and your Flicka. Those could go for like $2500 you would be set. :wave:


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## kwikrnu (Dec 2, 2007)

PeanutsMom said:


> PG , I would suggest that you block this guy.He is making statements I doubt he even believes in simply to piss you off.I'm still reading cause I sometimes enjoy looking at nasty things


No, I am responding to his post. I didn't read anywhere on this forum that opinions contrary to the GRCA were not allowed.


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

PeanutsMom said:


> PG , I would suggest that you block this guy.He is making statements I doubt he even believes in simply to piss you off.I'm still reading cause I sometimes enjoy looking at nasty things


I agree, is it possible to block or ban him? I do not believe (and if read the post previous to this everyone Im sure will see) that he is here for advice or to give advice ... he is here to cause problems (for some reason anywhere PG posts he posts something ridiculous!) Rick, Joe, Anyone ... is this a possiblity? He tends to contradict himself just to make people mad. Im not upset by his opinions, but it seems as though he is trying to make our well known members who do have common sense and great advice and TRUE opinions look bad ... And no offense, but Im not 5 yrs old ... Im sick of seeing him stick his tongue out at everyone on this forum. He's wasting a lot of peoples time with nonsense! Im afraid his immaturity is going to cause us to lose the advice and knowledge of our superior members. Anyone?


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## kwikrnu (Dec 2, 2007)

Ash said:


> Go for it. Then you can call them Mini Goldendoodles. You could try a Black Mini Poodle and your Flicka. Those could go for like $2500 you would be set. :wave:


That is a good idea. Maybe you can help me develop a profitable breeding program.


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

kwikrnu said:


> No, I am responding to his post. I didn't read anywhere on this forum that opinions contrary to the GRCA were not allowed.


But I HAVE read all of your posts and you are a ball of contradictions! You have to admit, you are being difficult. You are making snotty remarks for no reason... not because you TRUELY believe these things, but because you want to be rude!! There are good people in here and you are wasting their time with each post you make, because IMO nothing you post is how you really feel... its just some make-believe BS to make people mad. Im not a mean/opinionated person at all ... but I keep reading your post and I feel like youve wasted my time. Sorry ... but thats how I feel!


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

kwikrnu said:


> That is a good idea. Maybe you can help me develop a profitable breeding program.


MY POINT ??


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

PeanutsMom said:


> PG , I would suggest that you block this guy.He is making statements I doubt he even believes in simply to piss you off.I'm still reading cause I sometimes enjoy looking at nasty things


 
POOF! I've disappeared him. And for my not being particularly Golden, I apologized to my Forum FRIENDS.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Hmmm..... no and I second Jami's post above.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

I shall go do the same..... Ignore list right??


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

Can someone please tell me how to put him on the "ignore" too?


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Go to orange bar above and click User CP. On the menu bar on the left hand side closer to the bottom is Buddy/Ignore List just go add him and save list.


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## kwikrnu (Dec 2, 2007)

lovealways_jami said:


> I agree, is it possible to block or ban him? I do not believe (and if read the post previous to this everyone Im sure will see) that he is here for advice or to give advice ... he is here to cause problems (for some reason anywhere PG posts he posts something ridiculous!) Rick, Joe, Anyone ... is this a possiblity? He tends to contradict himself just to make people mad. Im not upset by his opinions, but it seems as though he is trying to make our well known members who do have common sense and great advice and TRUE opinions look bad ... And no offense, but Im not 5 yrs old ... Im sick of seeing him stick his tongue out at everyone on this forum. He's wasting a lot of peoples time with nonsense! Im afraid his immaturity is going to cause us to lose the advice and knowledge of our superior members. Anyone?


I've not contradicted myself. You and some of the professional breeders here do not like my ideas. I have listed them below.

Christmas puppies are not bad.
There is a limit to spending on a dogs well being.
Offa web site is nearly useless as a tool if negative info is not posted.
How many dog treats should one give to their puppy?
Golden doodles are dogs and just because they are not purebred does not mean their owners do not love them and that they should not be sold.

So, you do not like my opinon and the fact that I defend it? Maybe you should not reply to my posts. I haven't looked, but I think pointgold has always posted after me not before. So, is he stalking me?


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

kwikrnu said:


> I've not contradicted myself. You and some of the professional breeders here do not like my ideas. I have listed them below.
> 
> Christmas puppies are not bad.
> There is a limit to spending on a dogs well being.
> ...


I have NO opinions what so ever about any of your topics listed above, and I never have. BUT you refuse to act in an adult manner about anything. I think if I said I thought piercing your dogs ears was wrong, you'd try to defend it in some crazy contraversial way! We have always been able to have adult conversations about a few of your topics listed about BUT WITH VALID reasoning! Since you have been here for the like 5 minutes you have, youve tried to cause problems ...starting at minute one! You start posts about things that you know will start problems! Why?? TO START PROBLEMS!


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## Farley Rocks! (Nov 15, 2007)

I still say he's angry at his mama - but at the same time he is rather fun to hate and we all know he is full of it. It will run its course, he will get bored and move on. Its all good so lets untwist the panties and just give the man the pity he deserves.

And this time I am not sorry.


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

Im really sorry about your mama ...? Does that make you feel better?


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## kwikrnu (Dec 2, 2007)

lovealways_jami said:


> I think if I said I thought piercing your dogs ears was wrong, you'd try to defend it in some crazy contraversial way!


Why would someone pierce a dogs ears?


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## jcasks (Oct 14, 2007)

Swampcollie said:


> Creating a new breed is a long term committment that goes way beyond just mixing a few breeds together. To be considered a "Breed" like dogs when paired together must reproduce themselves true to type for several generations.
> 
> Mini-Goldens, Comfort Goldens, Goldendoodles and the others are not "Breeds" at all. They are nothing more than the garden variety mix that you can easily find at your local shelter.
> 
> There are plenty of mixes available in shelters, there is no reason to purposely produce them.


 
You couldn't have said it better!!


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

My one daughter-in-law LOVES elephants. Woner if anyone cane work and plot and plan and breed an elephant with a toy poodle and get a mini elephant or a eledoodle that looks like an elephant, but is only the size of a toy poodle. Then my DIL could get one for a pet!


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## Farley Rocks! (Nov 15, 2007)

What about when you have great lines on both sides and want to breed for a certain trait (like height). Are there NO breeders of mixes that are responsable? I can understand loving a breed..but didnt all breeds come from mixing ancestory?


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## jcasks (Oct 14, 2007)

3 goldens said:


> My one daughter-in-law LOVES elephants. Woner if anyone cane work and plot and plan and breed an elephant with a toy poodle and get a mini elephant or a eledoodle that looks like an elephant, but is only the size of a toy poodle. Then my DIL could get one for a pet!



Be careful, you might have just put a crazy idea in someones head!!!


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

kwikrnu said:


> It is against the law for a breeder to make money? Next time you buy a purebred golden from a successful breeder ask to see their tax returns for the last several years.
> 
> A golden doodle should be a smart dog and with a lot less shedding than a purebred golden plus I think they look nice. I'd bet 90% of people who own goldens do not use them for retrieving fowl. They are purely pets the owner choose because they are friendly, smart and look good.
> 
> I don't understand why people are against these beautiful dogs. To each their own.


Because these people are charging triple the price for a MUTT. Breeders who breed ethically usually break even or operate at a loss. Notice a lot of breeders also have a grooming or boarding facility for their income.

If you read enough of the stories on this board, and all the heartache people have suffered, you will begin to change your mind.


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## kwikrnu (Dec 2, 2007)

cubbysan said:


> Unfortunately 99% of them are only doing it for $$$$$$.





Farley Rocks! said:


> What about when you have great lines on both sides and want to breed for a certain trait (like height). Are there NO breeders of mixes that are responsable? I can understand loving a breed..but didnt all breeds come from mixing ancestory?


I think I can explain this. To be a responsible breeder one must be a member of the GRCA and several golden clubs. Most clubs and organizations do not allow mixing. Therefore, if you mix you are not responsible and are kicked out of their club. That is why there are no responsible breeders with dogs of excellent pedigree who mix.

Is there another explaination?


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## kwikrnu (Dec 2, 2007)

cubbysan said:


> Because these people are charging triple the price for a MUTT. Breeders who breed ethically usually break even or operate at a loss. Notice a lot of breeders also have a grooming or boarding facility for their income.


What is wrong with charging what the market will bear? If a breeder cannot operate at a profit they should not be in business. If they operate even or a small loss do they deduct the expenses and costs of their dogs and the property wher they are housed? That is a lot more than what I get as a regular dog owner, which is nothing.


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## Farley Rocks! (Nov 15, 2007)

kwikrnu said:


> What is wrong with charging what the market will bear? If a breeder cannot operate at a profit they should not be in business. If they operate even or a small loss do they deduct the expenses and costs of their dogs and the property wher they are housed? That is a lot more than what I get as a regular dog owner, which is nothing.


Most of the breeders I have dealt with have day jobs and just breed for fun, improving of the breed and showing. But I do know of a lady who breeds papered Border Collies to papered Goldens and sells their babies for agility buffs. Not that I agree, but she does the research and breeds only 1 litter a year. I know its adding to the mutt population but is that harming either of the breeds? Isnt it better to have a mutt that had parents with clearences then a shelter dog...from a health standpoint.


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

I've gotta say....I'm not a big fan of people coming in here spouting crap only to stir up trouble... If us golden owners are too snobby for you, why stick around?

I've banned for less. Play nice or go buh-bye.


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## lovealways_jami (Apr 17, 2007)

I love you Rick !! I dont know why they say "Super Moderator" ... they should call you "Superman"!!! LOL ...


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

There's a poodle forum that is quite a kick...all these mixed poodle breeds showing up because the mixed breeds can't find their own forums. The purist poodlers aren't happy. 

For those that want a board full of discourse, it's an option.

Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

lovealways_jami said:


> I love you Rick !! I dont know why they say "Super Moderator" ... they should call you "Superman"!!! LOL ...


Well, thank you.... Just sticking up for our regulars.....


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

lovealways_jami said:


> I love you Rick !! I dont know why they say "Super Moderator" ... they should call you "Superman"!!! LOL ...


Again, Jami I second that FULLY! Thanks Rick:thanks:


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## kwikrnu (Dec 2, 2007)

RickGibbs said:


> I've gotta say....I'm not a big fan of people coming in here spouting crap only to stir up trouble... If us golden owners are too snobby for you, why stick around?
> 
> I've banned for less. Play nice or go buh-bye.


I'm spouting off to cause trouble. If I had anything but a pure bred golden I would go elsewhere.
Feel free to ban me if you want it just shows the arogant attitude held by those who post to this board.


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## kwikrnu (Dec 2, 2007)

double post


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

kwikrnu said:


> I'm spouting off to cause trouble. If I had anything but a pure bred golden I would go elsewhere.
> Feel free to ban me if you want it just shows the arogant attitude held by those who post to this board.


I think your posts show who the arogant one is...


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

kwikrnu said:


> I'm spouting off to cause trouble. If I had anything but a pure bred golden I would go elsewhere.
> Feel free to ban me if you want it just shows the arogant attitude held by those who post to this board.


Your first sentence...do you actually mean you are spouting off to cause trouble or did you just type that sentence wrong?

As to the arrogant attitude of this board, I beg to differ as I have read all the posts and it has been you that has appeared arrogant. Remarks about not reporting breeding income on taxes, suggesting that breeders that are concerned about the well being of both puppy and owner is silly (per Christmas placement), commenting about snobby breeders (even when breeders very patiently try to explain the reasoning behind this), is bound to cause discourse and you know that. You seem intent on demanding that reputable breeders are dishonest on the data base and insisting the information is useless. For somebody that just got a golden puppy, claims to not know much about the breed, it is interesting the threads you have chosen to participate in. Frankly, I felt many of your questions prompted interesting discussion, but your side comments were rude and seemed to have the intent of insulting breeders. You do seem to have an agenda and I don't know what it is about. The thing is, you are new, nobody really knows you...I don't post often and people really don't know me either, so when you and I post we don't have much credibility behind us. You can make friends easily on this forum, but trust takes time. If this is a board you wish to be a part of, wouldn't it be wise to get to know the forum members before making offensive statements? Perhaps, if you took the time to get to know these people, you wouldn't feel the need to make offensive statements, those breeders you have been tweaking are quite kind. At this time, since I don't know you, I get the feeling you are either a miller or backyard breeder purposefully antagonizing breeders, you are a disgruntled member that has signed under a new name and are trying to antagonize one person in particular, or you are just somebody that enjoys creating arguments.

Even before I post this, I know it is a mistake. I don't feel you want a friendly relationship with this forum and I myself will probably get scolded for being rude. Again, neither you nor I have participated in this forum long enough for anyone to truly understand our intent. You have already said you don't look to this forum for advice, it seems you don't want to make friends, what is it you are hoping for?

Jan, Seamus, Gracie, Phoebe & Duke


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## kwikrnu (Dec 2, 2007)

Phoebe said:


> Your first sentence...do you actually mean you are spouting off to cause trouble or did you just type that sentence wrong?
> 
> As to the arrogant attitude of this board, I beg to differ as I have read all the posts and it has been you that has appeared arrogant. Remarks about not reporting breeding income on taxes, suggesting that breeders that are concerned about the well being of both puppy and owner is silly (per Christmas placement), commenting about snobby breeders (even when breeders very patiently try to explain the reasoning behind this), is bound to cause discourse and you know that. You seem intent on demanding that reputable breeders are dishonest on the data base and insisting the information is useless. For somebody that just got a golden puppy, claims to not know much about the breed, it is interesting the threads you have chosen to participate in. Frankly, I felt many of your questions prompted interesting discussion, but your side comments were rude and seemed to have the intent of insulting breeders. You do seem to have an agenda and I don't know what it is about. The thing is, you are new, nobody really knows you...I don't post often and people really don't know me either, so when you and I post we don't have much credibility behind us. You can make friends easily on this forum, but trust takes time. If this is a board you wish to be a part of, wouldn't it be wise to get to know the forum members before making offensive statements? Perhaps, if you took the time to get to know these people, you wouldn't feel the need to make offensive statements, those breeders you have been tweaking are quite kind. At this time, since I don't know you, I get the feeling you are either a miller or backyard breeder purposefully antagonizing breeders, you are a disgruntled member that has signed under a new name and are trying to antagonize one person in particular, or you are just somebody that enjoys creating arguments.
> 
> ...


Not reporting breeding on income taxes? I mentioned the probable reason that most breeders may only break even or lose is because they claim as deductions the cost of their breeding stock, vet costs, insurance, travel, feed, and many other expenses. Normal people with a pet cannot claim these deductions on their taxes. 

I have a Christmas puppy and she is very happy and well adjusted so that blew the whole Christmas pupy arguement out of the water right there. 

Database info is useless if negative info is not reported. The current offa database for goldens and their hips show a 1% rate of displasia. Give me a break. Breeders are not reporting their bad pups or are not releasing that info to the public. Make up any excuse you wish. It is not ethical, responsible or reputable. It is not good for the breed(for those who are hoping for a defect free future). I just read an article on the offa site which agrees with me.

Spending a lifes savings on medical treatment for a dog is unwise. If I had to put a figure on a dog maybe it would be $3000.

It isn't hard not to know me. I'm the one with a blog which explains my history and possible future. I'm the one who has entered in a ton of info of my dogs pedigree on k9data. I'm the one with a link in my sig to my dogs pedigree on k9data. I type what I feel. If you don't like it fine if you do fine. 

I'm not the one saying people should be shot for breeding mixed dogs.

This is the only dog/pet forum I am registered with. 

I started doing research maybe mid November looking for a golden retriever so I'm not some seasoned pro. I do not agree with all of the GRCA line. 

I'm not looking to make friends and don't care to make any enemies.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

kwikrnu said:


> Not reporting breeding on income taxes? I mentioned the probable reason that most breeders may only break even or lose is because they claim as deductions the cost of their breeding stock, vet costs, insurance, travel, feed, and many other expenses. Normal people with a pet cannot claim these deductions on their taxes.
> 
> I have a Christmas puppy and she is very happy and well adjusted so that blew the whole Christmas pupy arguement out of the water right there.
> 
> ...


 


Most hobby breeders are not set up as a business, so do not take deductions. I no longer am, but do claim income from puppy sales, as well as my training. 

Unless you live in a time warp, you do not have a Christmas puppy. Christmas is still 2 weeks away, and you have already had the puppy for a couple.

Reputable, responsible breeders do list failures in the OFA database. The vast majority of dogs that do not clear are produced by BYB's and millers who do not do clearances, period. Some dogs may not make it into the database as they have been sold to "pet people" who spay or neuter, so don't see a need to do clearances. There are many variables as to why all dogs are not in the databases.
Very few mixed breeds are, thereby making it impossible to say that they are genetically healthier than their purebred counterparts.

Your opinon regarding spending savings on treatment of a dog is strictly that - your opinion. It may not be as "unwise" for one person, as it is for another. Making blanket statements such as those you make, touting them as fact, is unwise, and unfair.

Your blog, added today, only states more of the same, as rudely as has been throughout your postings.

Your "ton" of info on K9 is no more than anyone elses, and less than most.

I am a proponent of Free Speech, but believe that there is such a thing as common decency and consideration. As you most likely intended to do, you've agitated many, including myself, into being much more reactive that normal. I'm sure that turns you on, in some strange way. Essentially, we "typed what we feel." Seemingly okay for you, but not for us. We are "silly".

No one here has said that people should be shot for breeding mixed dogs, but we "typed what we feel" and valid reasons for why we do.

I think that you would do well to find another forum, seeing as how you have so much disdain for all of us, and no qualms about saying so. There are many. Perhaps you'll find one where everyone is bitter and angry about responsible, reputable breeders and the parent club (GRCA) of the breed that you chose (a breed that is what it is in part because of the GRCA).

You certainly have done nothing to make friends. Saying you don't want enemies is oxymoronic, given your treatment of the people here.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Oops double post, my computer's being hinky tonight


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

kwikrnu said:


> I have a Christmas puppy and she is very happy and well adjusted so that blew the whole Christmas pupy arguement out of the water right there.
> 
> .


You got your puppy in November, so I'm sorry but you've proven nothing. I didn't even bother reading the rest of your post, as I assumed it was just more of the same. However, I did think I would inform you that Christmas is actually celebrated on December 25th, not the last week in November.  Thanks for playing though!! :wavey:

Julie and Jersey

PS~ Respond if you like, but I think I'm pretty safe in saying don't expect me to respond back. As someone said the other day, "You can't cure stupid."


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Pointgold said:


> given your treatment of the people here.


And when a newbie comes in treating OUR people like that, it makes me feel arrogant enough to ban them....


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Jersey's Mom said:


> However, I did think I would inform you that Christmas is actually celebrated on December 25th, not the last week in November. Thanks for playing though!! :wavey:


Samson was a Christmas puppy from Thanksgiving two years ago....


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## kwikrnu (Dec 2, 2007)

It's just more of the same from you people. Please remove me from the list of forum subscribers. I'm off to a more friendly forum.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

I think that's a green light Rick... please, do us all a favor.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Here's something different from one of us people.

:thanks::thanks::thanks::thanks::woot2::woot2::rockon::rockon::appl::appl::appl::appl:

:dblthumb2:dblthumb2:dblthumb2 :wave::wave::wave::banana::banana:


Buh bye. 


:smooch: (Whew. That felt good. It was really difficult to remain 
"mature" with KwikLube  ) 



kwikrnu said:


> It's just more of the same from you people. Please remove me from the list of forum subscribers. I'm off to a more friendly forum.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Jersey's Mom said:


> I think that's a green light Rick... please, do us all a favor.


 
Ban him, don't "remove him". Otherwise it's kinda like "You can't fire me, I quit!"...


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

kwikrnu said:


> It's just more of the same from you people. Please remove me from the list of forum subscribers. I'm off to a more friendly forum.


The nice forum you're running off too......you gonna be a jerk to them too?


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> Ban him, don't "remove him". Otherwise it's kinda like "You can't fire me, I quit!"...


Good point!

Julie and Jersey


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Pointgold said:


> :dblthumb2:dblthumb2:dblthumb2 :wave::wave::wave::banana::banana:


That seems awfully arrogant....


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Gee...I WONDERED why the forum seemed so much more pleasant when I signed on! Bye Kwik!


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## RickGibbs (Dec 16, 2005)

Seems only fair....I banned PG for less....

And with that.....we'll lock this one up...


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