# can a breeder force me to neuter my dog?



## glddog04 (Sep 19, 2009)

There are plenty of breeders who believe there are health benifits to waiting until pup is 18-24 months. Keep looking!
Glddog04


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## mdoats (Jun 7, 2007)

My breeder's contract says that the dog must be spayed or neutered by 12 months. After I got Rookie, I learned a lot about the benefits of waiting a bit longer to neuter. I called my breeder, spoke with her, and she agreed that it would be okay to wait until Rookie was older to neuter him. She just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to breed him.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Why create an unnecessary problem? My advice if you don't want to alter the puppy until a certain age then find a breeder that’s okay with that. If you cannot find the terms agreeable then don't agree to them.


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

but my question was, what would happen if I bought the puppy and 10 months later I did not neuter it. They couldn't very well just take it away.


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## cinnamonteal (May 16, 2008)

Just wondering, but how would the breeder know if you didn't get him neutered until later? Will s/he see your dog a lot? Do you live in the same town?


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

don't sign a contract you have no intentions of following.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Most reputable breeders will have you sign a sales agreement. Its quite easy to enforce when you are in the same state/province. Reputable breeders take these matters quite seriously and it would not shock me for them to legally enforce what you agreed to. Like I said why if you cannot find the terms agreeable then don't agree to them. JMO and the opinion I am sure of many/most reputable breeders.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

gabbys mom said:


> don't sign a contract you have no intentions of following.


Exactly!


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

no, we don't live close to each other.

Is this a legaly binding contract? no one is really answering my question. I am just getting comments.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

cinnamonteal said:


> Just wondering, but how would the breeder know if you didn't get him neutered until later? Will s/he see your dog a lot? Do you live in the same town?


I request that the Dog and bitch puppies must be nuetered/spayed by XX months of age with written and signed letter from your Vet on his/her letterhead. This letter must be forwarded to the Breeder for records no later than 30 days after the procedure was completed. I am happy to send a reminder email or give you a call a month prior to the XX month birthday.

Yes, in some cases I am sure it would be considered a legally binding contract.


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

I am wondering if breeders will agree to a non-breeding agreement for late neutering. There is one breeder I am intrested in and I have not asked them if they would reconsider their agreement, but maybe that is something I can request and see what they say.
I really want a registered Golden but I don't want to have to neuter my dog at 10-12 months. I would have to pretty much get a BYB golden if no breeders are flexable.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

MyCodyBoy said:


> I am wondering if breeders will agree to a non-breeding agreement for late neutering. There is one breeder I am intrested in and I have not asked them if they would reconsider their agreement, but maybe that is something I can request and see what they say.
> I really want a registered Golden but I don't want to have to neuter my dog at 10-12 months. I would have to pretty much get a BYB golden if no breeders are flexable.


I think that many breeders are giving the time-frame to 18 months. I haven't looked lately...but that seems to be within the norm.

I would definately ask the breeder you are interested in and explain why. But ultimately...nuetering a dog produced by a reputable breeder who is concerned about breeding healthy puppies at 12 months is going to be better then nuetering a byb, health-risk dog at 18 months.


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## glddog04 (Sep 19, 2009)

It would depend on the contract.Some breeders go to great lengths to write contracts that will hold up in court. The big question in my mind is why you want to know if you might get in trouble but arent willing to try and find the right breeder for you or take the time to discuss spay neuter issues with one you already have? Most good breeders are going to pick up on someone who has no intention of adhering to a contract for whatever reason...you probly won't get a puppy from them!
glddog04


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

Lucky's mom said:


> I think that many breeders are giving the time-frame to 18 months. I haven't looked lately...but that seems to be within the norm.
> 
> I would definately ask the breeder you are interested in and explain why. But ultimately...nuetering a dog produced by a reputable breeder who is concerned about breeding healthy puppies at 12 months is going to be better then nuetering a byb, health-risk dog at 18 months.


I agree, hopefully they will reconsider, their dogs are so nice looking.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

Many breeders even those on this forum allow altering at a later age (18-24 months). So if you find a breeder and that's agreeable then I say go for it! Be sure to educate yourself and plan accordingly to have an unaltered male/female. Its not for everyone.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I would not risk loosing my dog by not following through on a contract. If they're not willing to extend the neuter age, I would look for another breeder. Plenty of high quality breeders have older age limits. 

Jodie


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Ash said:


> Be sure to educate yourself and plan accordingly to have an unaltered male/female. Its not for everyone.


 
Yeah...that's the truth. When Lucky was just under a year we had an unspade female move in next door and suddenly that 18 month timeline wasn't important anymore.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

MyCodyBoy said:


> but my question was, what would happen if I bought the puppy and 10 months later I did not neuter it. They couldn't very well just take it away.


It may well depend upon what country you're in. 

In the U.S. the short answer is no, they can't take the pup back or force you to alter the pup. Under U.S. law, dogs are property, so if you bought it outright (no co-ownership arrangement) it's yours to do with as you see fit. 

Keep in mind however that if you choose to not uphold your end of the purchase agreement, the breeder may choose to do the same, including voiding the warranty and terminating any ongoing customer service.


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

glddog04 said:


> It would depend on the contract.Some breeders go to great lengths to write contracts that will hold up in court. The big question in my mind is why you want to know if you might get in trouble but arent willing to try and find the right breeder for you or take the time to discuss spay neuter issues with one you already have? Most good breeders are going to pick up on someone who has no intention of adhering to a contract for whatever reason...you probly won't get a puppy from them!
> glddog04


I don't have any issue with the dog I already have. He will be neutered next summer.
I also want another male puppy so breeding the two is not going be an issue.
I also don't want a puppy until next fall, when Cody will have already been neutered.


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

MyCodyBoy said:


> Is this a legaly binding contract? no one is really answering my question.


because you are asking for legal advice on a golden forum  call your lawyer and ask him.


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

Swampcollie said:


> It may well depend upon what country you're in.
> 
> In the U.S. the short answer is no, they can't take the pup back or force you to alter the pup. Under U.S. law, dogs are property, so if you bought it outright (no co-ownership arrangement) it's yours to do with as you see fit.
> 
> Keep in mind however that if you choose to not uphold your end of the purchase agreement, the breeder may choose to do the same, including voiding the warranty and terminating any ongoing customer service.


Thats is something to keep in mind, and they are just in doing that.

I have no intentions of dooping a breeder into thinking I would not follow their agreement. I think my question is a general question that many people may have thought about in the past.


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

gabbys mom said:


> because you are asking for legal advice on a golden forum  call your lawyer and ask him.


it must not be then, or it would be common knowldege.
and again, no question answered, just smart ass remarks.


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

A "non breeding agreement" when you purchase a registered puppy in Canada ensures that if you do break the agreement (by breeding the puppy) it cannot be registered by the CKC. I assume that a similar arrangement exists in the US. Non breeding agreements can be changed by the consent of both the owner and the breeder if you demonstrate committment to the breed (showing in breed, obedience titles etc.) Usually breeders specify a particular age to ensure that you follow through with the agreement and it gives them a timeframe to "check up" on this. Many breeders of goldens (Caseys for e.g.) recommend waiting until 18 months to neuter a male because of bone/joint issues.


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

Ash said:


> Many breeders even those on this forum allow altering at a later age (18-24 months). So if you find a breeder and that's agreeable then I say go for it! Be sure to educate yourself and plan accordingly to have an unaltered male/female. Its not for everyone.


Hopefully I can find one that I like, but I haven't yet.
I want a male puppy.


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## Phoebe (Feb 8, 2006)

I expect the breeder to be honest with me and follow the terms of the contract, therefor, it is equally important that I'm honest with the breeder and follow the terms of the contract. Rather than break the contract, I'd find the breeder who offers terms I'm comfortable with. Having a good relationship with the breeder is important to me.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

I agree with talking honestly with the breeders you are interested in. Have your research close at hand and be willing to discuss the whys and wherefores of why you want to wait and the reports that support your decision in an open, friendly manner. I bet most reputable breeders would be pleased that a potential puppy parent is so well read and interested in the long term health of one of their pups. And remember, it's only a good deal if it's good for both parties. The right breeder will appreciate your thoughts and be willing to become a wonderful support system.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

MyCodyBoy said:


> Thats is something to keep in mind, and they are just in doing that.
> 
> I have no intentions of dooping a breeder into thinking I would not follow their agreement. I think my question is a general question that many people may have thought about in the past.


I think it was more then a general question because you are considering it. And the "smart assed" remarks are due to the fact that you are considering to do business in bad faith.

I'm surprised that you wouldn't feel bad about that or think it wrong.


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## Noey (Feb 26, 2009)

I'm pretty sure it's a binding contract and just like with any contract if you break the conditions and the party chooses they can take action.

I think the fact you have to ask and the concern about it being binding tells you that it is.
My breeder does keep in contact. We also have a clause in our contract if for some reason we can no longer take care of our Goldens we have to notify the breeder and they will re-home if we can not find a good home. 

So I do think breeders do take these contracts seriously. But I do think they wuld be willing to adjust if you talk with them.

It's a legal binding document/sales contract your agreeing to sign, they have legal rights which is why they have them.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I think that if you can cite exact research showing why the puppy should not be neutered until 18-24 months of age, not just make a vague statement about it, then the breeder should be open to allowing it. If the breeder isn't open to it, then move on.
JMO.
I don't know the answer to your original question about whether or not it can be legally enforced.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

The enforcement question varies widely from state to state. I don't believe a contract can force you to neuter your dog once he is your property, BUT if you breed him and sell the pups for money against your contract, then you are in breech of contract.


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

I am pretty sure that in the eyes of the law buying a dog is the same as buying a fridge or a car...once it is yours, it is yours to do with as you would like (I'm sure it is like that in this country anyway) If I were a breeder I would be delighted if a future puppy owner had enough insight to wish to wait to castrate their dog, infact I wouldn't have neutering restrictions at all on my litters (if I were a breeder)...I would rather they base the need to neuter on the individual dog and would not feel the need to enforce compulsory spay/neuter on every animal, how can you possibly tell that it is in the best interest to castrate every puppy at the age of 8 weeks? I would hope that the process of getting to know the puppy owners would be my reassurance that they are wishing to keep a companion animal and are responsible enough to not let their pet dog roam around and produce unwanted litters. In my opinion the lack or enforcement would encourage an open and honest relationship, where hopefully my advice in the future would be sought on possible castration at a time best for that individual dog. 

If I were you I would ensure you find a breeder that goes along with your opinion on the matter, or have a chat with your preferred breeder beforehand, you never know, they may be pleased you have put some thought into your future pup!


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## Phillyfisher (Jan 9, 2008)

I am with Hotel4Dogs. Bring some backup for late neutering and discuss with the breeder. If they won't honor your request move on. I think the breeder will appreciate your honesty, and desire to do what you think is best for the dog. Personally, I think any reputable breeder would be willing to honor your request. Never sign an agreement you know you will not honor.


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## Sucker For Gold (Jan 13, 2009)

Our contract states that the dog must be neutered/spayed by 12 months. We questioned our breeder about the possibility of waiting until 18-24 months. She was already well aware of the reasoning for this and told us that not only it was it not a problem, but she also supported us in that decision. 

We have actually had more of a hassle with our vets who insist that a dog should be spayed/neutered early. We have sat down on more than one occasion with them, along with documentation, and they simply refuse to agree with the information we present. Good thing we are not under contract with them. 

Anyhow, talk to your prospective breeder. More than likely they are already aware of the reasons for waiting and will probably be willing to work with you.


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> I think that if you can cite exact research showing why the puppy should not be neutered until 18-24 months of age, not just make a vague statement about it, then the breeder should be open to allowing it. If the breeder isn't open to it, then move on.
> JMO.
> I don't know the answer to your original question about whether or not it can be legally enforced.


I think that 99% of reputable breeders know about the benefits of waiting to neuter - just like 99% of vets believe that the benefits of later neuter outweigh the risks of early neuter**

** HOWEVER - it's not just about the benefit of waiting - it's about trusting the new owner not to breed an animal they have in their possession and trusting someone they may not know very well to properly handle an intact animal - it's just just a matter of having a uterus or testicles - there's more to it. My vet for example does perform and in some cases recommend early spay/neuter based on the bigger picture - this client isn't going to manage an intact female, will let her run and have puppies on her first season - you betcha she's recommending early neuter to those owners - ditto to the folks who have the intact dog that runs the neighborhood. For that particular dog not having a full deck of equipment will hopefully cut his urge to cross major highways in search of an in-season female. The same applies to breeders - they're taking a leap of faith by selling you (and the generic you not you personally) a dog, they do their best to screen homes but once the puppy leaves their home they don't have any control over what happens to it. Sure, it was sold on a limited registration - but how many times have we heard about people getting approached in parks with their intact males asking about breeding to random females? Those people don't care if the resulting offspring are AKC registered (or CKC whatever) and won't be inconvenienced at all by a limited registration/offspring can't be registered...The original breeder might never even know about this mating - a mating which wouldn't have happened if that dog had been neutered before sexual maturity...

Erica


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

btw - depending on where you live the actual "damages" of failing to neuter/spay according to contract is limited to financial terms - so you wouldn't lose your dog, but you might be sued for damages resulting from your violation of contract (penalties). Some breeders also hold "papers" of dogs until they are neutered or stay on the registration as co-owner...

Also, for what it's worth, it's the commercial breeders (which by my definition includes BYBs and anyone else producing litters exclusively for the pet market) who are likely to enforce the early spay/neuters because they don't want the market competition...

Erica


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## goldens2show (May 7, 2009)

I think some people are misinformed about how a contract is enforceable. As someone else said, it is best to leave the legal questions to a lawyer. But I must also say, I am very aware of several dogs from other breeders that have been court ordered returned or money judgements issued because of the breaking of the contract. It all ends up being semantics and how the contract is worded. It is most certainly enforceable by the court system and it just depends on how important that issue is to a breeder and what they will do to enforce it. Even more so that a dog is considered property and the court will rule on the business side of the initial agreement. A smart breeder will have a lawyer write up a contract and if they feel their dog or reputation is in danger will act to remedy the situation. 
I agree with everyone else, there are plenty of breeders who are advocating waiting to 18 months so why not just go with someone else? The breeder/buyer relationship should be an honest, open, and supportive relationship so I don't understand why someone would even try to plan on being deceptive at the get go! Maybe you should be asking how can I talk to a breeder about this? Or Where can I find more information/research to support my beliefs? Rather then planning ahead on how to get around a contract. 

Christina
www.heritagegoldens.com


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

In my case I have recently changed my policy that all puppies are registered in my name initially, once I have been provided with a spay/neuter certificate from the operating vet then I transfer papers into the new owners names ...this is clearly stated in my contract and legal through the Canadian Kennel Club....my policy is 9 mos for females and b/w 14-18 mos for males.....there are breeders that follow later spay/neuters.....why put yourself into a situation where you are contemplating breaching a contract before you even have the puppy home??? :uhoh::no:


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I know my contract said male dog must be neutered after 12 months, I actually waited 18 months. My vet tried to talk me out of it, saying in our state the contract meant nothing. 

I know they were just pushing it because of irresponsible people, and some dogs are hard to handle intact.

Maybe the breeder will work with you if you prove that you neutered your other dog at such an age.


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## goldens2show (May 7, 2009)

Heather,
A lot more breeders are also doing that in the states. I haven't yet, but there are some very good reasons to do it that way.
Christina 
www.heritgegoldens.com


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## Griffyn'sMom (Mar 22, 2007)

I think you should be upfront with your intentions. I was with Griff's breeder and she was fine with me waiting until he was 2. She thought I might have problems with him marking, etc. and figured I would have him neutered earlier - but I had no problems. 

I think breeders are much more concerned with getting the females spayed than with the males being neutered. JMHO


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## esSJay (Apr 13, 2009)

MyCodyBoy said:


> Hopefully I can find one that I like, but I haven't yet.
> I want a male puppy.


Have you just been going by what their websites say? I would be contacting them personally to ask. I am sure that most of these breeders would be more than willing to let you wait longer to neuter, and will make exceptions to their contract.


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

goldens2show said:


> Heather,
> A lot more breeders are also doing that in the states. I haven't yet, but there are some very good reasons to do it that way.
> Christina
> www.heritgegoldens.com


I have a few reasons why this works for me: 

the pups are registered asap -- without the need of a silly CKC non-breed agreement which is difficult to do online. I have it clearly written in my personal sales agreement.......

I get proof of the spay/neuter 

If someone does breach the contract the dog is still in my name, easier to deal with that than deal with one that has changed ownership @ 8 wks..I know many that are doing their sales this way.....here in Canada anyhow


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## WLR (May 11, 2008)

So.... "can the breeder force you to neuter your dog?" 
In my NTHO, no. 
No more than I could, or would.
But we'll just keep that between you and me.
Capish ?


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

esSJay said:


> Have you just been going by what their websites say? I would be contacting them personally to ask. I am sure that most of these breeders would be more than willing to let you wait longer to neuter, and will make exceptions to their contract.


Yes. I have just been reading their agreement.

One breeder I contacted ignored my e-mails after I mentioned wanting to wait 18 months and I never heard back from them.

I think I will do it in person next time after I have gone to meet them and their dogs.


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## Ash (Sep 11, 2007)

As a breeder I would certainly would not want someone reasoning with me about the way I sell MY pups. Just an opinion from the other point of view.


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## grrrick (Sep 10, 2009)

From what I understand, many (most) breeders place a "limited registration" on pups. This is done by the LITTER owner and can only be upgraded to a full registration by the litter owner.

FROM AKC - A dog registered with an AKC Limited Registration shall be ineligible to be entered in a breed competition in a licensed or member dog show. It IS eligible, however, to be entered in any other licensed or member event. These events include: Obedience, Tracking, Field Trials, Hunting Tests, Herding, Lure Coursing, Agility and Earthdog.

FROM AKC - No offspring of a dog for which Limited Registration has been granted is eligible for registration. Each registration certificate for such dog shall carry notice of the limitation, and the limitation shall continue, regardless of any change of ownership, unless and until the owner(s) of the litter at birth shall apply to AKC for removal of the limitation."

My comments - A breeder can ask you to spay or neuter or make you sign a contract. But I don't know that they have any power over you if you decide to not spay or neuter. But if that dog with limited regration were to have a litter, the pups would not be eligible for registration.

Some breeders are willing to lift the "limited" registration if, at 2 years of age, you certify your dogs hips, eyes, thyroid, etc.


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

grrrick said:


> From what I understand, many (most) breeders place a "limited registration" on pups. This is done by the LITTER owner and can only be upgraded to a full registration by the litter owner.
> 
> FROM AKC - A dog registered with an AKC Limited Registration shall be ineligible to be entered in a breed competition in a licensed or member dog show. It IS eligible, however, to be entered in any other licensed or member event. These events include: Obedience, Tracking, Field Trials, Hunting Tests, Herding, Lure Coursing, Agility and Earthdog.
> 
> ...


That is very informative, thank you for that.
I had no idea "limited" dogs could not be in confirmation. 
I don't know anything about confirmation but I just assumed that any dog that was registered could be a show dog. I just find it interesting how(some) breeders control things. I also now find it frustrating that some breeders do not have a "show" and "pet" price. I strongly feel that there should be two prices, especially if there is a limited registration.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I got Tito on a limited registration. The breeder lifted it when he was about 18 months old so that I could show him in AKC conformation, but she wanted to see him first. She probably would not have lifted it if I hadn't also already gotten several other titles on him, and shown him in UKC to his championship. 
She lifted the limited registration and gave me full breeding rights, trusting me to do the proper health clearances (which I have done).
The problem with the limited is that, while it prevents people from breeding and registering purebred litters with the AKC, it doesn't prevent people from breeding mixed breeds like the doodles, which can't be registered anyway.
There is one breeder here who will only lift the limited registration if the dogs pass the CCA, which is an interesting idea.


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## beccacc31 (Aug 17, 2009)

My question is.... If you buy a pet for a pet, take it through it's obedience training and decide to continue with showing (because you find that you love it) and then you want to get into breeding..... How does one earn the privledge of breeding or prove themselves that they are doing it for themselves and to better the breed?


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

beccacc31 said:


> My question is.... If you buy a pet for a pet, take it through it's obedience training and decide to continue with showing (because you find that you love it) and then you want to get into breeding..... How does one earn the privledge of breeding or prove themselves that they are doing it for themselves and to better the breed?


this is where mentoring comes in.....close contact with your breeder, following advice, learning about the breed, making honest decisions for the right reasons. Obtaining clearances. That pet puppy may very well turn out to be the swan!!!!!!! we all started out somewhere, its the path we choose to follow that determines the responsible from the byb'rs IMO!


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## MyCodyBoy (Sep 27, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> I got Tito on a limited registration. The breeder lifted it when he was about 18 months old so that I could show him in AKC conformation, but she wanted to see him first. She probably would not have lifted it if I hadn't also already gotten several other titles on him, and shown him in UKC to his championship.
> She lifted the limited registration and gave me full breeding rights, trusting me to do the proper health clearances (which I have done).
> The problem with the limited is that, while it prevents people from breeding and registering purebred litters with the AKC, it doesn't prevent people from breeding mixed breeds like the doodles, which can't be registered anyway.
> There is one breeder here who will only lift the limited registration if the dogs pass the CCA, which is an interesting idea.


 
I can understand the limitations, I truly do, but I don't understand the seriously high price for a puppy that comes with all those limitations. If it is bought as a pet the price should reflect that. I shouldn't have to pay $1000 for a pet when the next person is allowed to buy from the same liter and have a show/breeding dog for the same price.

The limitation is really only something that breeders hope people will follow. Sadly doodles are the result of poor judgment by some and by those crazy people who continue to buy into the fad.


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

cinnamonteal said:


> Just wondering, but how would the breeder know if you didn't get him neutered until later? Will s/he see your dog a lot? Do you live in the same town?


Do breeders not hold back registration papers until they receive the spay/neuter certificates?


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

MyCodyBoy said:


> I can understand the limitations, I truly do, but I don't understand the seriously high price for a puppy that comes with all those limitations. If it is bought as a pet the price should reflect that. I shouldn't have to pay $1000 for a pet when the next person is allowed to buy from the same liter and have a show/breeding dog for the same price.


Just as some pets will be swans, some show picks will be ducklings...So a lot of breeders sell both for the same price rather than making guarantees on suitability to show or breed later on. The other part you're missing is how much goes into showing a dog - money, time and resources - thousands and thousands of dollars. A puppy bred by one person and shown by another affects the reputation of the breeder - I still think it's a coup to sell the pick puppy and have someone else finish them! Why should someone charge more for a puppy that is going to cost more to own? 

Erica


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## MurphyTeller (Sep 28, 2008)

Gwen said:


> Do breeders not hold back registration papers until they receive the spay/neuter certificates?


Depending on which registry they're holding papers on this may or may not be kosher. For a while AKC was getting their panties in a twist because people were "selling" AKC puppies but buyers weren't receiving their "papers" at time of purchase...I'm not sure if they're still policing this - but if you were a puppy buyer and papers were withheld until spay/neuter by contract and you decided to play dirty and involve AKC I believe that AKC would side with the buyer and compel the breeder to turn over the papers...

However, registering puppies in your name (like what Heather does) and then transferring ownership might be a better (more "legal") way to do the same thing.

Erica


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## FineChina (Sep 21, 2009)

I am an attorney. Without researching it, here is my quick take on what would happen if a breeder sued you for failure to abide by an agreement to neuter your dog. The breeder could not take the dog back unless the contract specifically provided for that remedy and even them such a clause might not be enforceable. They could sue you for money damages but I do not know what monetary damages they would suffer. They could sue for something called specific performance requiring you to neuter the animal. The breeder might be successful in this claim.

If I had a breeder who wanted to put in such a clause I would advise them to put in what is known as a liquidated damage clause. This is a clause often used when the amount of money damages is difficult to determine at the time of entering into an agreement. The clause might says that the dog owner would be liable for $2000 in liquidated damages and attorneys fees. This type of clause would imo hold up in court.

Absent such a liquidated damages clause, I think it would be difficult and expensive to take a dog owner to court over this. The provision probably has more force as ethical/moral obligation. I would doubt that many breeders would take you to court over it.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

MyCodyBoy said:


> I can understand the limitations, I truly do, but I don't understand the seriously high price for a puppy that comes with all those limitations. If it is bought as a pet the price should reflect that. I shouldn't have to pay $1000 for a pet when the next person is allowed to buy from the same liter and have a show/breeding dog for the same price.


Did your pet puppy not receive the same amount of planning and care that the other show potential puppies received?
Then why should there be a difference in price?
YOU want a beautiful pet that looks and acts like a golden retriever and has the genetic health to live a full life. By selecting a good breeder you are getting exactly what you wanted.
The show home wants those things plus a dog who can bring home ribbons. They are also getting exactly what they wanted. Would you expect more if you got their puppy and they got yours? Would you instantly take up showing your dog if you got their puppy instead of yours? The answer is no. The breeder has put in exactly the same care for every puppy, so their price is the same. Not to mention, the show puppy is going to cost the owner a whole hell of a lot more than the pet puppy in the long run, but the payoff may be very high, bringing notoriety to the owner and breeder. Would you charge the show home more when they may be doing you a huge favor in the end?

You're the first one I've heard arguing that the breeder SHOULD charge different prices for show vs. pet puppies. Most can't figure out why there would be different prices. (I'm one of them) Perhaps your issue isn't that the show and pet puppies are the same price but rather, that $1000 price tag seems steep to you in general. This is a very average -- actually, low -- price for a well bred golden puppy from a reputable breeder these days.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

MurphyTeller said:


> Just as some pets will be swans, some show picks will be ducklings...So a lot of breeders sell both for the same price rather than making guarantees on suitability to show or breed later on. The other part you're missing is how much goes into showing a dog - money, time and resources - thousands and thousands of dollars. A puppy bred by one person and shown by another affects the reputation of the breeder - I still think it's a coup to sell the pick puppy and have someone else finish them! Why should someone charge more for a puppy that is going to cost more to own?
> 
> Erica


I agree with this completely. Sometimes, a breeder might even offer you a contract that they will handle and finish the pup at their own expense, but then they control all breeding rights. There are many ways to write up a show puppy contract. A pet pup of show quality is a dream come true for many, and worth every penny to have a trainable, beautiful dog with no strings attached.


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