# 3 yr old girl - very stubborn and independent. Help!!



## Golden Syrup (Mar 15, 2018)

Hi, 

I'm hoping someone might have a bit of advice for me or tell me there is light at the end of the tunnel because as much as I love our girl - she is giving me a nervous breakdown! 

Basically, we have an extremely intelligent golden and I am really struggling to wear her out both physically and mentally. I have read soooo much about GR issues and training and activities, but I have never found anything that quite fits this little lady. 

Hmmmm, I am struggling to even start as there is so much to say... 

My main issue is the barking and how demanding she is. She will bark if she doesn't get what she wants immediately. She will bark if she sees an animal/butterfly despite having grown up around them. She will bark if the gate is shut and she can't access an area that she wants. She will bark constantly for hours if I don't let her in the house. I know GR like to be around people. But after 5, I am doing dinner, and bedtime for our 4 kids. I am doing it on my own as my dh is still at work and it is incredibly hard and stressful to be trying to get a toddler and baby to bed while the dog is scratching the back door and barking. I let her in if she is well behaved inside, but more often then not she is then tearing around the house and it is just utter chaos and I have to put her back out again. Tonight I tried to read to the kids but instead of it being a calm loving time, we could barely hear each other as her barking is SO loud. It isn't like she doesn't see us all day. She has ample opportunities to be with us through the day, as we homeschool and we are all playing, talking to her etc. We have had the same routine since she got here nothing has changed. I have tried giving bones at that time - but she just eats them super fast. I tried different sizes / giving more then one. I have tried treat boxes, dinner etc. 


I know the standard answers are more training, more exercise - but how?
She goes for walks everyday. Not just a walk on a flat footpath, but up steep hills, in orchards, the forest and a bike track. She can swim in the dam if she wants, but she doesn't really like it. People suggest retrieving games, but she doesn't play! She might chase a ball or frisbee 2 or 3 times and then she just looks at us and refuses to play. If it goes into long grass, then she won't get it at all! What kind of retriever is this!! lol! 
I don't know how many hours I have spent making games for her... I swear I missed my 4 year olds toddler years as I was trying to make games for the dog to stimulate her in the day. 

She has just started nipping again and jumping. I don't know how many nights I have been reduced to tears because my entire life is trying to wear out the dog or at least get her to be quiet so I can have a family dinner. Some nights she will bark furiously to come in, then run around in the house, only to want to go outside straight away so she can go and bark at the neighbours goats who come down to the same paddock every night and have done since she got here. 

Anyway, I will come back to this... my (actual) baby is crying..


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## jinni1980 (Jul 22, 2016)

I am so sorry to hear you have so much going on with your golden & your kids. I can say it has been hard for you. 

I have just turned 2 years old male Golden. He is bit nervous guy but he is full of beans. We thought we had so lucky because he is very calm at home but then when I was very unwell, he got less exercise.. then we realised he wasn't really lay back one. 2 bed sheets went to bin, 5 his toys were destroyed, countless holes were at backyard in 2 days... big lessons for us. 

Since then we managed keep him busy. Usually he gets his 1-2 hours morning exercise (off leash running, bush walking and swimming).. then he would just be lazy for a day till 4pm then we will play with him or go for walk or doing some training for an hour. 

I know life gets busy & as a mum, we have so many other things to do. Not all of us can have a time for 2-3 hours exercise everyday. 

So these are my other way keep him busy. 
1. We play hide & seek alot. It is super easy play inside too.. My DD will hide behind of curtain or even in the bathtub. Whenever he finds her, he will get a treat so he keeps going & loves it obviously. We sometimes use his toy, Gingy.. (Gingerbread stuffing toy) we hide Gingy & tell him to find it. Of course when we hide Gingy, we leave a tiny treat on Gingy. 

2. Practice lots of impulse control training such as place (he goes his bed or mat & stay calm). This can be very useful specially when we want him to be calm & relax. (Guest coming or cooking..)

3. Let's use nose.. I actually started doing some tracking with him. Funny thing is sometimes 10-20 mins tracking makes him so tired. Using his nose & focus on his task actually tired him out more than just walking the blocks an hour. We do "feed the chicken" game at backyard often too. I toss tiny treats at backyard & let him find all of them. He will sniff backyard everywhere untill he finds last one of treats. 

I hope other members can help more for you & I wish all the best for you.


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## CedarFurbaby (Jun 6, 2016)

GRs do have their stubborn streaks! 

My answer to that is not more exercise or training. She’s upset she’s locked outside and doesn’t know why, but at the same time no one told her what she needs to do when she’s inside. 

I would probably teach a settle down or go to bed cue, and then reward each 5 seconds she stays there. This is hard to do while you have to concentrate on kids etc., so just do it for 5 min and then give her a long lasting chew. When she is better at settling down you could reward every min or 5min. 

The routine you want to establish is for her to lie down on her own. It sounds like she is doing it for attention, including the nipping, so when she is being good and lying down, playing with a toy on her own or chewing her long lasting chew, I would go over give her some pats and tell her what a good girl she is.


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## Golden Syrup (Mar 15, 2018)

Hi, thank you so much for your kind words. She does use her nose a lot, so thats a great idea to get her doing more tracking stuff. I was getting her to find he food under buckets etc, but I might see if I can find more activities where she can use her nose. She used to love hide and seek with her toys, but as she has gotten older she isn't really into it anymore. 
We are really lucky in that she doesn't destroy things in the house and she never has really. Its really just the barking if she instantly doesn't get what she wants. Given that I am often totally swamped with crying, clingy children - she sometimes just has to wait her turn - just like everyone else in this house! 

Thanks for your advice!


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## Golden Syrup (Mar 15, 2018)

Hi CedarFurbaby, 

Thanks so much for answering! She is upset that she is locked outside - but its only because she is adding to the chaos inside. On the nights she is ok, she is in the house. I think its more the energy in the house can be quite chaotic. The house is small, my 4 yr old is like a cyclone and her and Maple tend to make each other worse. She loves being outside and will even choose to sleep outside at night sometimes. She is pretty lucky in that she has the best of both worlds. But there are often times where either for her safety or the kids, she needs to go outside. Even if she is outside, she still talks to the kids as our toilet is out there, so she still gets interaction. She does know how to behave inside, she is in here whenever we are around and she is in here all night and any kind of extreme weather. If she plays up (laps of the house, being over excited with the kids, sneaking into the bedrooms etc) she goes outside and comes in when she is calmer.) 

The barking is an issue because its like everything sets her off and its mainly in the evening after about 5 until 10 Sometimes I bring her in, but she wants to go out again and she will leap off the back verandah and run to the back fence to bark. We are rural and the things I have worked out she barks at the most are: the goats moving down to their bedtime paddock, foxes (and rightly so!), bats, birds going to bed, her echo, the dog a few acres away, insects and people in the orchard behind the house. (but just until she gets over it.) 

The nipping and jumping has only just started in the last week and I have no idea why! A few times in the evening she jumped on the kids when they went out to the toilet. She doesn't just jump though, she wraps her paws around them so they can't push her off. She has done it to me as well. The nipping, she did it yesterday 15 mins into a walk in the forest! She suddenly started bolting around and then jumped up on me and started nipping. I put her on a really short leash and she was good as gold as quick as it started - but obviously that behaviour is totally not on at all. Added to the fact that I was on a hill wearing a baby on my back. She has never done that to me on a walk - ever. Even as a puppy. 

I will just add that we are going back to formal training and getting specific advice from a behavioural trainer for these issues, but I just wanted to see if anybody else has experienced any of this. I just see all of these goldens where the owners go to work and go and have a play in the evening and they are sorted and I am spending hours and hours coming up with ways to wear her out and it doesn't make much difference. She doesn't seem to like the same activities, its really hard to play with her, she is still really full on with the kids, she still gets so over excited like shes a puppy. I took her out for 4 hours the other week and we still got home and she was like - right, what are we doing now? I know they are amazing family dogs, but if this is how they all are - how are people having the time to do it all! I am home most of the time - on a property and I don't have enough hours in the day! I am feeling like a total failure. There are some days where I don't even want to come home or be at home because of how she can be. Surely it shouldn't be quite this hard..


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## CedarFurbaby (Jun 6, 2016)

Golden Syrup said:


> The nipping and jumping has only just started in the last week and I have no idea why! A few times in the evening she jumped on the kids when they went out to the toilet. She doesn't just jump though, she wraps her paws around them so they can't push her off. She has done it to me as well. The nipping, she did it yesterday 15 mins into a walk in the forest! She suddenly started bolting around and then jumped up on me and started nipping. I put her on a really short leash and she was good as gold as quick as it started - but obviously that behaviour is totally not on at all. Added to the fact that I was on a hill wearing a baby on my back. She has never done that to me on a walk - ever. Even as a puppy.
> 
> I will just add that we are going back to formal training and getting specific advice from a behavioural trainer for these issues, but I just wanted to see if anybody else has experienced any of this. I just see all of these goldens where the owners go to work and go and have a play in the evening and they are sorted and I am spending hours and hours coming up with ways to wear her out and it doesn't make much difference. She doesn't seem to like the same activities, its really hard to play with her, she is still really full on with the kids, she still gets so over excited like shes a puppy. I took her out for 4 hours the other week and we still got home and she was like - right, what are we doing now? I know they are amazing family dogs, but if this is how they all are - how are people having the time to do it all! I am home most of the time - on a property and I don't have enough hours in the day! I am feeling like a total failure. There are some days where I don't even want to come home or be at home because of how she can be. Surely it shouldn't be quite this hard..


Oh I didn’t realise she was doing it on a walk! Cedar did that to me a lot as a puppy. It was random, he would do zoomies and jump and nip me. I was soo frustrated! Initially I thought it was not enough exercise so like you I took him out hours. 3 hours a day in 3 separate sessions, including off leash and on leash, I taught him more games and more commands. I did this for a few weeks, got very tired and nothing changed very much. He got home and was very hyped up and he was more likely to jump and nip at home. 

That was when I took him out a lot less. I took him out less than an hour each day, but sometimes we walk up and down the block in evenings. And I focused on teaching him to calm down, to relax, I gave him massages, I rewarded him when he settled by himself. Then I saw an improvement in his behavior. He gets very overstimulated as I understand it. His environment affects him a lot - seeing few dogs around him is different to seeing many dogs, heavy traffic and noisy areas, grass vs pavement all makes a difference to him. Cedar could not sleep even though he was so tired when we visited my 2 nephews under 5 years old. Not sure if your girl is in a similar situation, but it’s worth considering whether less exercise is what she needs.

Cedar is almost 2 years old now. He has 2 or 3 outings but they total less than 1.5 hrs and he could get by with half hr walk in the morning and another half at night with some activities in the house. I have to say he is also super super stubborn and frequently tells me “no mom I don’t wanna do that” lol. 

It’s hard to see other goldens just being calm and nice when mine is being rebellious and overexcited most of the time, so I totally get you! It’s not always easy for me, but I just try my best to accept Cedar as who he is, and my focus is on teaching Cedar to calm and relax. It’s not about managing him or training him or getting the quota of walks done, it’s about teaching him that he can relax even if I’ve missed a walk one day. Like come on sometimes I get sick and can’t walk that much, I fully expect Cedar to be able to cope with that! And if he can’t then I will teach him to cope with it. 

Hope the behaviourist/trainer can help you out!


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## Golden Syrup (Mar 15, 2018)

Thanks! They sound very similar! I think you are spot on with the overstimulation. As a puppy if she was worn out and got overtired then her behaviour was atrocious and much worse. I think she needs more mental stimulation, but I haven't really found her "thing" yet. She gives up so quickly at anything remotely challenging, but she is so smart. She had her own drawer with toys that she would go and open to get her soft toys to carry. We had to change our door handles as she would open the doors to go either in or out if she wanted. (although I admit, that was actually kinda handy sometimes!  ) Thank you so much for your help, its actually really good to know that I am not alone.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

Is any of this new beyond the nipping?

You'd have to practice this during the day when you are not in the midst of the Witching Hour. (Dogs and kids happen to share this time!)

This is what you'd do.

Lay out some sort of towel, and first teach her "mat" or "place" or whatever you want to say. Then you will "build value" for her lying on the towel. First it might be for a second, but you will build up the duration of her stay. If you use a clicker or marker word, you'd mark her for first approaching the towel, then sitting or lying on it, etc. You throw a treat ONTO the towel every time. The towel means food.

I can write more out or find a link if you want more specific help on this to get started.

Then, once she has a very basic idea of this, start on the Relaxation Protocol. Here's a handy way to do it... you just play it on your computer or phone or iPad and follow the instructions. You give a treat EVERY time your dog completes a task like, sit for 2 seconds. (Ideally the dog should lie down but it doesn't matter.)
https://championofmyheart.com/relaxation-protocol-mp3-files/ Again, food on the towel. I tend to toss the treat.

Keep working on this so she sees there is value in being still.

In the meantime, while you are working through this, find a place to tether her near your activity within the house. Use the towel if she won't destroy it. Give her the bones and whatever else on that towel. Toss a treat to her often. Then vary the time you are tossing treats to her. 

This is not an overnight fix and it's not easy, but more of a management strategy while she learns that it's good to relax.

I think it's easier to teach Goldens to be calm inside than it is for them to accept being outside without us. Not to say it can't be done, but...

Barking, unfortunately, is self-rewarding, so the more she does it, the more she will want to do it.

It is VERY hard having a dog with young children. Very hard. Sure, there are those "perfect" dogs but they always belong to someone else. 

I feel your pain being alone with the young ones for so long. I have 5 kids and my husband is gone more than 12 hours a day. It is tough. But this too shall pass, though I know it doesn't feel like it.


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## Golden Syrup (Mar 15, 2018)

Anele, thank you! Sorry it has taken me a while to get back to this. We have her bed in the house and do the treat thing when she is still in her bed. I will have a look at your link and I will work on what you have suggested. 

I hear you! It is hard when your on your own - doing the kid stuff and the dog stuff as well! 

This week she has started jumping up on the kids! No idea what is going on... She didn't even jump when she was little. 
Even the barking is worse. I think part of the issue is there is no pattern. Some days she is manic and other days she is an angel. 

And whats the deal with this.... After 9pm - happily laying quietly outside at the back door. No barking - until one of us goes outside to the toilet. (its an outside toilet) Then she springs off the verandah, runs to the back fence and barks furiously. It only happens when we go outside though. We ignore her and come back inside. She keeps going. 

The other thing that is SO frustrating is everyone said when she was a puppy - ignore the barking. We did and it didn't make a difference at all. Its like everything we were told and read hasn't worked with her at all. We have consistently had the same routine, have ignored the behaviors we didn't want and rewarded the ones we did. It isn't like she is our first dog, I had an old english before her and I used to train all sort of animals at work so its not like we were new and pushovers. We were firm and gentle used positive reinforcement and consistent. 

Anyway, thanks for letting me vent!


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