# Rattlesnake aversion training--good or bad, yay or nay?



## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Bella and Tucker had this a couple days ago, at an AKC-sponsored event in our soon-to-be hometown. I posted about it on a couple Facebook dog forums and was surprised to get significant pushback on one. So I thought I'd ask here...


If you've had the training done, have you seen evidence that it "worked" and the dog retained the training? Has anyone's trained dog successfully alerted to a rattler and moved away from it?
I gather there are one or two non-shock-collar trainings around now, ones using only positive reinforcement. Has anyone done those, and how effective did you find it?

I thought I was doing a good thing for my two although the thought of the shock collar gave me pause, especially for my fearful Bella. (I made sure they knew her background and the trainer was wonderful and gentle with her.) The thought of them getting snake-bit sounded worse, but I guess many dog people nowadays disagree. Thoughts anyone?


----------



## Jennifer1 (Mar 31, 2012)

I've never done it, but a friend did it with her dogs.
There were 5 people and 8 dogs on a hike one day. 4 people and 7 of the dogs walked within a foot of a rattlesnake. The last dog (had the training), refused to move forward on the trail. That is when we noticed the snake. Then it started rattling (silent up until then). Some of the people used sticks to get it to move off of the trail so the next people wouldn't be bitten by an angry snake.
In all fairness, one of the 7 dogs that went past the snake was her other dog that had the training.

ETA-they did the traditional shock collar method.


----------



## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Jennifer1 said:


> I've never done it, but a friend did it with her dogs.
> There were 5 people and 8 dogs on a hike one day. 4 people and 7 of the dogs walked within a foot of a rattlesnake. The last dog (had the training), refused to move forward on the trail. That is when we noticed the snake. Then it started rattling (silent up until then). Some of the people used sticks to get it to move off of the trail so the next people wouldn't be bitten by an angry snake.
> In all fairness, one of the 7 dogs that went past the snake was her other dog that had the training.
> 
> ETA-they did the traditional shock collar method.


Thanks! I'm going to be interested to see if this little poll has more answers.


----------



## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

FYI, these two trainings just got posted on my thread. I'd be interested in what people think of these:
Snake Avoidance without Shock

How Does It Work


----------



## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

I had never heard of this until you posted about it. I think it's wise of you to worry about rattlesnakes because of where you're moving. I've camped near Shasta Lake in Nor Cal a few times and seen dozens of them. Some people are really against shock collars but I think they serve a purpose. I use one for field training with Archer. I had a class on how to use it. Some people have strong opinions on them and think you're a terrible owner even if you use it conservatively. I even tried it on myself, as dumb as that sounds, but it made me feel better about using it on him.


----------



## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

Yes we took the class with our first golden along with a friend who owns a golden. We had a home in the desert where many rattlers are so we wanted to play it safe. Dogs cans smell and hear rattlers before any of us and I was very happy he passed with flying colors. If by him never getting bite by a snake means it works I don't know, but that is the reason I took it. Perhaps he did intentionally avoid them. My friend who took the class with us lives in the hills and they were all getting ready to get in their car with the dog when all of a sudden the dog ran up to them and started barking then went over to a bush on the other side of the car. Low and behold there was a rattler. So yes I believe it works. They also train horses with the collar the same way for snake avoidance. But now I am hearing you should have refresher courses once a year.


----------



## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

The training (with electric collar) is BIG BIG down here. Nearly every club has a weekend scheduled that offers this. Especially as summer gears up. I've heard nothing but great things from the aversive training. Even people who would never use a shock collar for normal training, felt this was a worthwhile reason to use it. The company that does it is super professional and evaluates temperaments to gauge how the dog will react before doing anything. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## OutWest (Oct 6, 2011)

Brave said:


> The training (with electric collar) is BIG BIG down here. Nearly every club has a weekend scheduled that offers this. Especially as summer gears up. I've heard nothing but great things from the aversive training. Even people who would never use a shock collar for normal training, felt this was a worthwhile reason to use it. The company that does it is super professional and evaluates temperaments to gauge how the dog will react before doing anything.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Jen, interestingly some of the people who were opposed to the training on my "fearful dogs" Facebook group had mounted an effort in San Diego county to have these trainings abolished. I tried to download a document one posted but couldn't... But they feel the evidence in favor of training at all is anecdotal at best, that the incidence of snakes biting dogs doesn't warrant such an extreme training, and that it is possible to accomplish the same training using positive methodology. FYI, I think the guys conducting Tucker/Bella's training were from San Diego.


----------



## Gwen_Dandridge (Jul 14, 2012)

I did it with Maddie last year (after she rolled on a dead snake and got disgusting). We did the shock collar routine.

They put the collar on her, walked her over to the first snake, with it's little plastic hood on, and shocked her. Maddie tried to climb up the person and sit on their head. They took her around to the next snake and Maddie was truly panicked about any and all rattlesnakes as she really, really didn't want to get shocked.

She absolutely passed her test at the end.

The only caveat I have is that she became sound fearful immediately after that. I don't know if it was connected or not, but thought I should mention it.

I think I would do it again. I truly don't want her bitten and she is off leash a lot. I did test the collar before they put it on her, but I believe they cheated, turning it to its lowest settings for me and up for Maddie. Not sure of that though.


----------



## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

OutWest said:


> Jen, interestingly some of the people who were opposed to the training on my "fearful dogs" Facebook group had mounted an effort in San Diego county to have these trainings abolished. I tried to download a document one posted but couldn't... But they feel the evidence in favor of training at all is anecdotal at best, that the incidence of snakes biting dogs doesn't warrant such an extreme training, and that it is possible to accomplish the same training using positive methodology. FYI, I think the guys conducting Tucker/Bella's training were from San Diego.



I read the thread on the fearful dogs group. I wonder if people are reacting that way because they hear e-collar or shock collar and immediately hate whatever it does. People talk about dogs becoming collar smart, but the collar isn't on long enough for them to associate the collar with the shock. I poached the subject with some trainers (field work mostly) who are experienced with e-collars (this was about a year ago) and they all agreed it would work and that if there was EVER a time to use an e-collar, from a positive only standpoint, it would be for life-and-death situations like this. 

Idk where most of those commentators live, but out here in the bushy, brushy areas, snake bites are unfortunately common. And the dog doesn't even need to go up to the snake out of curiosity. My girlfriend's shepherd was bitten twice within 2 weeks of each other. First by being curious, he got nailed in the face, but the snake didn't latch on so no venom was absorbed. Second time , he walked past a snake under a bush and the snake strikes without warning. They've had rattlers come into their home too. 

My other friend almost lost her dog to a snake bite almost two years ago. 

Before that, my high school classmate DID lose her dog to a snake bite. 

I've heard there is a rattle snake vaccine. You might want to look into that as well.  


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Susan: w/ Summit we climb (Jun 12, 2014)

We pass by rattlesnakes where we hike. I can't imagine not protecting my dog by giving him the training. He is naturally bold and not fearful, but I would still do it if he were fearful.

I wouldn't want to give him an unnecessary vaccine, though, since the collar works.


----------

