# Continuing Loss of Pigmentation/Food



## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

I am taking my dog to a vet-- but want to ask the right questions.

We started noticing that my dog (b. 12/1/14) was losing some pigment on his nose when he was around 10 months, in Oct. The weather was getting colder, so we assumed it was just snow nose. He seemed young for snow nose, however, and it seemed a little early/fast for it to be happening. And maybe it was just the lighting, but it seemed sometimes it would look dark again, even in the sunlight.

But now we are more concerned:


Yesterday I noticed some pink around his muzzle area, by his whiskers. His lips, too, are turning pink.


No sores or lesions that I can see.


His nose seems like it's always been drier than most dog noses. I would not describe his nose as "wet."
Once in awhile his eyes have looked bloodshot lately, though this is not all the time.
He hasn't had any trauma. Doesn't eat/drink from plastic but does occasionally use Kongs . . .though not daily. Has plastic toys.

The breeder had him on Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Skin/Stomach. He seemed OK on it, though a little itchy, chased his tail. When he was about 6 months, I switched him to Annamaet Options. He seemed less itchy and I noticed a big decrease in tail-chasing, though I am not 100% certain that isn't behavioral. Option Formula

In Oct., every place was out-of-stock with Annamaet, so I went back to Pro Plan. He started chasing his tail more, shaking his ears, etc. This is when the pigmentation issues began. 

Now, the ingredients to me (not that I know much about food) don't seem THAT different from each other. I can't believe the food would be causing this issue.

*ProPlan*
Salmon, Brewers rice, Canola meal, Oat meal, Animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), Fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), Salmon meal, Barley, Brewers dried yeast, Animal digest, Salt, Potassium chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, Vitamin E supplement, Zinc sulfate, Ferrous sulfate, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Manganese sulfate, Niacin, Vitamin A supplement, Calcium pantothenate, Thiamine mononitrate, Copper sulfate, Riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, Garlic oil, Pyridoxine hydrochloride, Folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, Calcium iodate, Biotin, Menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), and Sodium selenite 

*Annamaet*
Salmon Meal, Brown Rice, Millet, Venison Meal, Rolled Oats, Pearled Barley, Canola Oil, Lamb Meal, Menhaden Fish Meal, Menhaden Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols (Vitamin E)), Dried Tomato Pomace, Flax Seed Meal, Lecithin, Fat Product (Algae, Source of Fatty Acids), Carrot, Celery, Parsley, Lettuce, Watercress, Spinach, Salt, DL Methionine, L-Lysine, Cranberries, Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Oligofructose, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Vitamin E Supplement, LAscorbyl- 2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate, L-Carnitine, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Choline Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Zinc Proteinate, Betaine Anhydrous, Iron Proteinate, Selenium Yeast, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Iodate.

I am ordering food again . . .not sure if I should go back to the same type of Annamaet, go grain-free, or ?? He cannot have rich food. 

Any questions in particular I should ask the vet? I am guessing this is going to be a matter of a lot of testing. I know no one can dx here.

Thank you for reading.


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## LUCKYme (Mar 29, 2015)

His nose turning pink is not food related. Change in color of their nose is most always genetic and completely normal. On the other hand, if his nose is dry... you might want to do some blood work to check for iron deficiency. Same with their lips, it is normal for a change in color to occur. Again, you could do a normal CBC and make sure his nutrient levels are up to par. As far as his eyes, and him being itchy... you might be looking at a food allergy. With salmon being your protein source currently it would be rare for an allergy but you might want to switch a more rare protein source. Your vet can help direct you.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

All very helpful, LuckyMe. I had a hard time finding out anything about lips changing color, which is what concerned me the most. Is it like snow nose in that it comes and goes, or is it a permanent loss? I will talk to my vet about the possible deficiency-- and would you think protein would be the main culprit? I have been wondering if his beloved Milk Bones are the issue.


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## Claudia M (Aug 8, 2012)

Do you have a picture? From your description I am thinking skin dermatoses which is a bacterial infection. 

How are his ears? You mentioned shaking his head.


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## LUCKYme (Mar 29, 2015)

Anele said:


> All very helpful, LuckyMe. I had a hard time finding out anything about lips changing color, which is what concerned me the most. Is it like snow nose in that it comes and goes, or is it a permanent loss? I will talk to my vet about the possible deficiency-- and would you think protein would be the main culprit? I have been wondering if his beloved Milk Bones are the issue.


I am not sure with your dog if it is permanent or if the normal pigment will return. Depending on the cause, your doctor will be able to shed some light. Usually, most all food allergies are related to the protein source (around 3% have a grain allergy). Milk bones are pretty safe as far as allergies go.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

Claudia M said:


> Do you have a picture? From your description I am thinking skin dermatoses which is a bacterial infection.
> 
> How are his ears? You mentioned shaking his head.


I will get a photo tomorrow. As for his ears-- they seem to be OK when I look in them, but I can't be sure.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

LUCKYme said:


> I am not sure with your dog if it is permanent or if the normal pigment will return. Depending on the cause, your doctor will be able to shed some light. Usually, most all food allergies are related to the protein source (around 3% have a grain allergy). Milk bones are pretty safe as far as allergies go.


I am guessing this is vitiligo. Good to know about the grain allergy rate. Thank you!


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Chloe had some pigment off her mouth on the sides. It had a pink spot. It turned back to black. We realized she must of scraped off some pigment while chewing on her nylabones.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Very much agree with LuckyMe regarding the pigment loss. It is generally believed to be hereditary (and you have people who breed to certain dogs because they are trying to fix pigment in what they breed) and pretty much common areas dogs lose pigment are the nose, lips, and "eye-liner". You might find his pigment comes back in spring/summer. My experience though is that when you have pigment coming and going like that - at some point the color doesn't come back. 

Pink around the muzzle might be normal... or it could be a sign of a reaction to something. 

Dry nose - might be normal. I don't worry about my guys not having wet noses. Actually I DO worry when they have really wet noses. 

Times when I would be careful and keep an eye on things is when the noses are really dry and showing signs of the skin being frazzed. Look up "collie nose" for example.

Not sure about the eyes - I think dogs are like people as far as their eyes looking red some days. I'd keep an eye on it, or if you are going to the vet for something else - do ask them.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

Megora, thank you. I have looked a lot for pics to try to find dogs who looked like this and haven't had much success. When I look up "snow nose" or "depigmentation" the definitions only mention the nose. When it involves other areas, then it seems like vitiligo. I keep trying to find out if snow nose is a form of vitiligo, but haven't yet gotten a definitive answer.

Nose has been looking wetter, eyes are good. So we are on track.

Went to the vet today. Not our normal vet, but one at the same practice. Was not reassured at all. Vet, who is a dog owner, had never heard the term, "snow nose." Never gave me a clear answer about vitiligo. Brought dermatology book and we looked at it together. I showed her where it said "snow nose" in the book. She thought he looked completely fine and it was nothing to worry about. 

I found some info online from someone who had a dog with vitiligo and took him to UC Davis. With the help of OTC vitamins, they said the dog cleared 70%. Showed this info to vet. She said I could try it but dogs don't absorb B vitamins orally, so she did not think it work work. (Vitamins have some sort of enzyme in them to help them be absorbed.) 

Anyway, I don't know what to do or think. Here are pics. We found a new spot on top today. I feel like I got no answer.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

Couldn't post multiple pics. Here's the spot.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Anele - I don't think that looks like snow nose or an issue with pigment. To me the first picture looks like an irritation or a reaction. 

The second picture is a scratch (because he's young, it should heal up fine and pigment come back). <=- That's me looking at the part above the black part of the nose. The actual black part of the nose looks a little faded/pinkish, and to me that's probably snow nose. His actual nose does look a little dry in the picture from top view...


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

It does seem like a reaction to me, too-- but to what? And why wouldn't the vet note this as a possibility? 

I wonder if it will end up looking like this if not a reaction-- this is the thread that has the vitamin info.

What should I be doing next?

Pandas pink nose....vitiligo


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Does he chew/mouth/lick a lot at something on a daily basis? It could be a contact related rash/irritation.

I'd keep an eye on him over the weekend to see if you can spot any causes. I think you mentioned he has a kong toy? If he's chewing and licking at a kong to get the stuff out - that whole area would be coming in contact with the rubber. And it could be he's allergic to the rubber - or he's getting carried away and irritating the skin there rubbing at it.


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## Rundlemtn (Jan 16, 2015)

I agree with Megora 100%. First picture looks red/irritated, 2nd looks like a normal scratch. I would be worried about Rash Around Mouth Area - Demodex Mange?
Not sure why the vet wouldn't think more of this, but the fact that they needed to take out a dermatology book, doesn't give me a lot of confidence that they are familiar with skin conditions in dogs. I would get a second opinion if and when you can.  Hope Kevin gets better soon!


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I have seen one of my dogs have this twice - one was when he was nauseous from and obstruction and another time he was nauseous because of who knows why. He would throw up and then try to bury it with the grass, carpet or whatever else was around - like a rug burn.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

Megora, no, there isn't anything he chews or licks on a lot. I don't even give him Kongs much anymore (once he got the snow nose, to see if it was a reaction) and he's not too intense when he does get them-- I don't put much in these days. Haven't given him a Kong for a week, though he does push the wobbly one around for a few minutes to get his food. I got him a new antler late Nov. and we have gotten him some rawhides--but nothing showed up then. 

3Pebs3-- ack! I didn't know dogs could get mange like that! I didn't even know what mange really was. Sort of wish I didn't, haha! I guess it could be?

I think what is telling is that this is happening ONLY where he has (or had) pigmentation. Which, again, leads me back to vitiligo.

Here is what his muzzle used to look like-- so the pink could be pigmentation loss vs irritation, mange, etc.


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## Anele (Dec 12, 2014)

*Update*

GRF for the win!

My friend is a vet, so I sent her pics and she concurred with my vet, that the muzzle area was "normal" loss. Just did not make sense to me because it did not seem typical.

My husband was convinced it came from rawhides. We only started giving them to him (my dog, not my husband!) recently but the loss wasn't there until a few weeks in of giving them.

We stopped the rawhides and slowly the area seemed less iritated, less pink. As of now, it looks almost completely normal (no one else would notice) with every day showing improvement.

Whew! GRF was right all along. Thank you!


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