# 13 weeks old and trouble



## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

13 weeks? Good for you for starting training nice and early!!

But, he isn't near the teen stage yet. That'll come later...when he's bigger, and stronger and decides not to listen to a single thing you say.

Are you in training classes? If so, just stick with it. Give him LOTS of praise when he does what you tell him. And a treat.....for a while. Get him to connect getting something good for doing the "right thing" versus negative reinforcement when he does something bad. The "bad" should be ignored....the good, praised.

Leash walking takes time. Right now he shouldn't be on "forced walks" anyway. He should be allowed to meander with you by his side. Give him lots of leeway (in a wide open space) so he can sniff, smell, etc. Even using a "long" leash (30') right now is good for him to learn to investigate.....and then come back when you tell him to. Treat when he does.....praise lots.......and then if he doesn't, reel him in, and then treat and praise. (Yep...even if he doesn't come on his own...treat when he gets back to you)!

After his "free" time.....clip a 6' lead on him and slowly walk home. But "home" shouldn't be more 1/2 block...or he isn't going to be able to make it. 

He's young yet....and it's the right time to teach him things, but don't try to force too much too soon!

And he's beautiful! What a great pic!


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## ourgoldentoby (Apr 25, 2008)

The interesting thing is that from 10-12 weeks, we were doing great. He was loving walks, he would make great eye contact for most of the walk. There was no leash pulling, he would come when called, etc. We could go 3-4 blocks no problem. 

We don't really do much of the negative reinforcement, we stopped a couple weeks ago. We then start over-emphasizing the positives. It seemed to work a lot better. However, teaching him not to bite is hard without a consequence. 

It wasn't until we started practicing "settle" as our puppy class homework that things started to go south.

I'm only assuming there is a correlation with the *new* activity that interrupted our routine.


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## mdoats (Jun 7, 2007)

Toby's gorgeous!! And I agree with Ardeagold, Toby isn't even close to being a teenager yet at 13 weeks. He's still a baby.

Oh boy can I relate to trying to get a pup to settle down on his walks. This was a major issue for me with Rookie for several weeks. Partway through the walk, usually when we were turning down the street to head home, he'd decide that he was in charge. He'd grab onto the leash and begin to play tug of war. Putting him down on his back or holding him to try to get him to settle never seemed to work. Eventually I started bringing along a small spray bottle with water and a little bit of bitter apple. After squirting him a couple of times, just the sight of the bottle would get him to behave. I do think 13 weeks old is still a little young to expect that much from him though. This problem with Rookie was when he was a bit older. For now, I'd probably try to distract him rather than control him. 

Also, I wouldn't interpret the fact that he shows teeth as an aggressive or dominant thing. If you've ever seen puppies play, there's a lot of pushing each other over and rolling around on the ground accompanies by lots of teeth. He may just think you're playing.


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

ourgoldentoby said:


> However, teaching him not to bite is hard without a consequence.


Here are a couple of good sites that teach about 'bite inhibition':

http://www.samsmiles.org/biting.html

http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm


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## Thor's Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

I have to agree with the others, this isn't teenager-hood yet. That'll come soon enough. Be consistent. If you truly think settle is the problem, be sure to talk to your instructor about that. Goldens can pull. You may want to start looking at different types of collars, your trainer may be able to help. the gentle leader is great for us, some like a harness, some like the prong collar. Ardeagold gave you some great advice. Good luck.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

I'm curious about what you said in your first post about this settle command. Are you rolling him on his back or turning your back on him? Sorry, I just couldn't figure it out. If you're rolling him, this may be too aggressive a tactic and he's retaliating out of fear. If you're turning your back on him (essentially ignoring him), is it possible that you let him win even once where he nipped you and you turned and acknowledged him? They learn things like that more quickly than you'd think... many dogs have their owners trained well  I would agree with some of the others who felt this is too long a distance to ask for undivided attention of a 13 week old pup. I'd shorten the intense heeling down quite a bit... remember you always want to end on a positive note when training. It's wonderful that you're starting training this early with your pup and it will serve you and him well throughout his life... but remember he's still very young and has a very short attention span. 2 ten to fifteen minute sessions per day should be about the max for a little while yet... and not all that time should be spent heeling continuously. Good luck with your pup!! I love that picture... he's very handsome!!

Julie and Jersey


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## LibertyME (Jan 6, 2007)

It most definately is not the teenager stage <smile>, but it is the end of puppyhood. 
They do start asserting themselves alot more often!
I believe Ardeagold is right on the money...


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## Brady's mom (Dec 20, 2007)

I know a lot of people miss their tiny puppies, but Brady was a terror at that age and I don't miss it at all! Your pup will become more manageable over time, I promise!


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## laprincessa (Mar 24, 2008)

He's beautiful! 
Max is almost 10 months old and he still does the thing where we walk for a bit, and then he grabs the leash and has what I call a tantrum. I'm going to try the water bottle trick, thanks for the tip! 
Have you tried a high pitched "OUCH!" when he nips at you? That would work with Max, I would squeal and turn my back on him because somewhere I read that's what puppies do when one hurts the other in play.


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## Celeigh (Nov 29, 2007)

The rolling over thing to get them to settle never worked for Fergus. He just got meaner. And similar to Brady's Mom's experience, Fergus was a nightmare as a little guy. I called him the demon puppy and was certain I got the only vicious one ever born. He's a fabulous 8.5 month old now (though still super naughty). No more biting though. I will leave the tips to the experts, but it does get better and you are on the right track getting started with training early!


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## ykcamom (Apr 7, 2008)

Riley is now 19 weeks old and I've definately noticed he is developing a little mind of his own!

I've never used the roll over thing, but when Riley acts up when walking I make him sit and sort of hold his head (by holding under his snout) to make him look at me. He'll try to fight me holding his head, but only for a second or two. Then I will speak to him sternly. It seems to work (for the most part, LOL).


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

Heck....some of ours still hold their leashes and want to play pulley with it...off and on...and the youngest Golden we have is 4! :lol:

I just switch the leash for something else, like a branch from a tree (small one for Goldens....a LOG for Newfs!). Some people take along a toy for them to carry. They ARE Retrievers, and like to have something in their mouths. It's their "job" to carry things. Retrievers are notoriously "mouthy"...like to mouth everything. That's a good thing.....when they learn to do it appropriately.

The biting stage WILL end. Generally around the time the adult teeth come in. Those puppy teeth HURT. But when he's teething, be prepared for more vigorous chewing...on you, the furniture, everything!


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## ourgoldentoby (Apr 25, 2008)

Just a general reply to all. First, thanks for all the tips. Here's the thing with settle (which I flip him on his back)....when we do it in public or in class...or let's say when he's mid-playing with another puppy, he'll do it great - no biting, settles within 2-5 seconds. When we do it as practice (alone) he will fight back, show teath and nip. 

We have done the loud OUCH with biting and he is doing very well with the bite inhibition, but we would like to get to a stage where he thinks about biting before just trying first.

Tonight, as I was doing settle and he was getting agressive, I let him bite me rather than avoid it. When he did, I yelped and left my hand. Imediately he softened biting to a lick. A couple times of that he was picking up on the fact that it was me and seemed to be making "some" progress.

And to answer a few questions.... I never turn my back on him or release him from a settle without him being calm, give in, or let him get away with biting. We are actually VERY attentive with him and try to understand things from his point of view....but we are firm and consistent.

So, I guess my takeaway...lower my expectations and he'll probably start living up to my standards 

Not sure why, but I think this picture is so funny... gotta cover up the business!


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## kwhit (Apr 7, 2008)

Just some info on your settle also known as the "alpha roll":

http://www.bogartsdaddy.com/Bouvier/Training/alpha-roll_no.htm

http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/alpha-roll-or-alpha-role

Just a couple of links after a quick search. I'm sure there are many more you can find but what they all will say is that this "training" method should not be used. JMHO.

Karen, Chance and Savanah *RB*


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## Phillyfisher (Jan 9, 2008)

Tucker does the same thing. For our settle, I make him sit and give him big long strokes down each side with both hands, talking to him in soothing tones. Usually just using the word "Enough". Seems to be working, but you will need to do it a couple of times on your walk....


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## norabrown (Jul 20, 2007)

You've already been given great advice. I've got nothing to add. I did want to say....

He's adorable! And this too shall pass. Hang in there.


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## norabrown (Jul 20, 2007)

Wow! I never used the alpha roll on one of my dogs unless it was a terrible transgression needing HUGE punishment. 

I haven't ever used it on Samson or Delilah. I did use it rarely on my 120 lb. black lab when he really pushed me. For me it was the only thing I could do because he was so big and hard for me to discipline.

That's a pretty big discipline to use to try and get a young dog to settle down. I think giving the command for a sit-stay or down-stay would be much more fitting to the situation.

JMO


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

Sounds like you've gotten good advice and I have nothing to add, but your pic is funny. It looks like he's kicking up into a handstand....now that would be funny!! He's an adorable pup, by the way.


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## ourgoldentoby (Apr 25, 2008)

I would like to say thanks for the Apha Roll links. Our "obedience" and leadership seemed to be making great progress until we starting doing "settle". I definitely think he attributes the action as agressive versus calming. 

I think we're going to put the "settle with a roll" on the back burner and shift to a "settle while sitting or down" 

Great stuff... thanks again for the tips.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

norabrown said:


> Wow! I never used the alpha roll on one of my dogs unless it was a terrible transgression needing HUGE punishment.
> 
> I haven't ever used it on Samson or Delilah. I did use it rarely on my 120 lb. black lab when he really pushed me. For me it was the only thing I could do because he was so big and hard for me to discipline.
> 
> ...


I completely, one hundred percent agree with NoraBrown.


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## heartofgold (Oct 27, 2007)

ourgoldentoby said:


> Hi everyone, just wanted to get some more feedback as Toby is going through his teenager phase right now. We started him with puppy kindergarten last week and we learned to practice the "settle" command to help calm him down. however, since we started doing "settle" on our walks, he has increasingly become more agressive. He now shows his teeth every time we turn him on our back and he tries very hard to bite/nip. We are very persistent with the "settle" and he does not get up until he relaxes for at least 10-15 seconds. It seems that any corrective behavior we introduce, it makes things worse.
> 
> Any tips on getting him to calm down?
> 
> ...


My only tip for getting him to calm down would be a lot more exercise. Eventually he will settle down. I've learned that is the only way to go with such a young pup. Did a professional dog trainer tell you to roll him over and hold him down to settle him? I would never ever do this with any dog unless there were major alpha/dominant issues with him. If he's not growling at you to begin with there is no reason to use this method because he is not being dominant with you. Being to playful or hyper should not be corrected this way. I have used time out in the crate when I was exhausted from my pup and about to pull my hair out. Usually 15 minutes or so should work but remember if he doesn't get enough exercise he will just come out of his crate and be hyper again, so exercise is the key. Don't use the crate as a punishment though or he will not want to go into it. Give him a treat every time he enters his crate. He will then learn to like his time outs. As for pulling on the leash he is still very young so walking him even a few blocks is a lot for him. I would try a gentle leader when he's a little older. Look up gentle leader on the forum and you can get more info on the gentle leader. Honestly though 13 weeks is probably a little young. I started mine around 4-5 months and took it slow. Try to make walks fun for now even though he is zig zagging and acting crazy eventually he will calm down. Enjoy every minute while he's little.


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

Glad to hear you're going to back off on the alpha roll... I think you're right that he was taking it as more of an aggressive move and probably felt he had no choice but to fight back. Personally, it's not a technique I use or support... but I think depending on the dog's temperment there are times when it could be appropriate. Training is all about finding a common language with your dog... always keep an open mind that if one tactic isn't working you can try something else... that way you can never fail. Good luck!!

Julie and Jersey


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## wabmorgan (May 6, 2008)

heartofgold said:


> My only tip for getting him to calm down would be a lot more exercise. Eventually he will settle down.


Good advice..... to quote my vet... "A good puppy is a tired puppy!!!!!!!!!!"

I was kind of lucky.... Junior LOVED to fetch tennis balls from the get go. At first he could barely even pick them up. I would toss them till he just tired out. Although sometimes getting the tennis ball back was problematic. 

He also managed to pick up 2 at the same time once... it was so funny.:roflmao:


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