# Sudden aggression in male nearly 3 years old



## ELI&BAILEY'S MOM (Dec 18, 2008)

I'll bump this up for you. Hopefully someone will have some advice for you.


----------



## Hali's Mom (Oct 5, 2006)

Yes, I would suggest getting your dog neutered and when he is in for the surgery have a thyroid panel run, the full panel. It could be his hormones that are creating the aggression and again it may be a thyroid issue which is easily controlled with an inexpensive medicine.


----------



## Anna Cheshire (Mar 27, 2012)

Hi Hali's Mum - many thanks for your fast response which is much appreciated! I will post progress and a couple of pics of Oscar too.


----------



## Anna Cheshire (Mar 27, 2012)

Picture of Oscar taken in the car a couple of days ago... looking a bit thoughful!


----------



## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

Hi Anna,
welcome to the board and Im sorry You are going through this worry. Firstly I would say please dont have Oscar off lead from now to set him up to allow this behaviour again. Something has obviously changed for him and it needs work. Neutering isnt a cure all solution to male dogs and although it could help he certainly needs to be shown this behaviour isnt right and rewarded for the complete opposite so that it becomes more beneficial to him to behave nicely. Do you know if it was males on both occassions? Watch his body language when you see other dogs near, does his begin to change, where is he holding his tail, how about the other dog, does it seem over confident and maybe threatening in your dogs eyes somehow? When you take him out I woukd suggest you have some very very high value treats on you and as soon as you see another dog you start getting his attention and when he gives YOU the attention rather than focussing on the other dog, he gets a treat..and you do this until the dog has passed..ending with huge praise. This bad behaviour has not been a one of and therefore he knows he can do it..neutering wont necessarily erase that from his memory so some good hard training to replace it should help. Good luck. Keep us posted! We have a UK board here too where you will be very welcome to join. Oscar is very handsome


----------



## Anna Cheshire (Mar 27, 2012)

Hi Elly

many thanks for your reply and advice.

In both cases the other dogs were males....... I know that today's dog wasn't neutered (the owner told me) and I don't know about the other. Body language - the other day, the approach from Oscar was a bit wary.. with tail up in the air...... dogs got closer and then Oscar made the lunge. Today was the real shocker as Oscar has had a run with the other dog in the past (another lovely GR)... I met the owner walking towards me and my two dogs and hers met... it all seemed quite friendly ... and they were all close together (we laughed at the 4 of them - all shades of creams and goldens) and then Oscar just seeed to 'go for one of them' very aggressive and the other responding to this. I admit I was very worried for all sorts of reasons. Oscar normally is the cutest, friendiest dog with a waggy tail and bum which is why today has been so upsetting.


----------



## FeatherRiverSam (Aug 7, 2009)

My recommendation would be to bring in a behaviorist to work with Oscar. It sounds like you could use some reinforcement / reassurance as well as Oscar. I'd also have him nurtured and have the thyroid panel done. I don't think the nurturing is going to solve the problem but that's where the behaviorist can be of some assistance.

Good luck with your boy...he's a handsome little guy.

Pete


----------



## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

So the males together thing was what I guessed and I pictured the tail held high in my mind, I suspect the fact he had done it once and won was enough for him to do it again today when he was up close and personal and had the ideal opportunity which is why he musnt be given the opportunity to do it again. Your only plan of action now can be the vets, lead walks and a major training schedule. There is a golden near us who is also uneutered like our boy and hes very quick to turn and theres nothing jokey or warning about him when he gets his teeth out at my dog. Its very quick and shocking but still hes off lead in a very public busy park  but unlike you, the owners dont seem bothered. I'm really sorry you are having all this, its very upsetting I'm sure, your vet will check theres nothing medically bothering him thats making him grouchy but other than that I think its going to be a case of neutering and training.


----------



## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Neutering has proven to help male dogs with aggression. Do it!!!


----------



## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Sally's Mom said:


> Neutering has proven to help male dogs with aggression. Do it!!!


Not so fast with the neutering as a quick solution. I have seen males develop male to male aggression at three years of age. I believe that if this is an established behavior neutering will do nothing. 

I have also seen owner generated male to male aggression. I'm guilty of this myself. When my dog is boarded at the vet he has no issues with the other dogs, however when I walk him in my neighborhood he does have issues.

I think that a behaviorist is the way to go.


----------



## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Neutering is not the only solution, it is part of the solution. Obviously, the OP needs additional help either with a trainer or behaviorist. There have been numerous studies that I have read that neutering a male dog can help with aggression issues. The same does not hold true for spaying female dogs.. which I lived first hand when a bitch was returned to me...


----------



## Anna Cheshire (Mar 27, 2012)

*update*

I took Oscar to the vet first thing this morning and explained what had happened. She checked him over and to see him so well behaved and waggy tailed, it didn't seem like I was taking about the 'same dog' I saw yesterday.

She was confident that there is obviously nothing that is causing him any pain and it is likely to be 'something in his head'.

Her recommendation is that I see a very highly regarded (in the UK) behaviourist in the first instance. He is going to call me tomorrow and I think will then want to come over to see Oscar at home initially.....

The vet advised that the behaviourist route was the best one to go first..... if the neutering is an issue then this will be another step.

In the meantime, I will let him run off the lead on a private area where apart from my other GR he won't see another dog. Any shorts walks will be on the lead and it's been suggested that I distract him if I see another dog approaching.

Thank you all so much for your feedback - advice and encouragement. I think this Forum is wonderful!

I'll post an update once I've spoken to the behavourist.


----------



## Tailer'sFolks (Feb 27, 2007)

My first thought was run a full thyroid panel...T3, T4, Free T3, Free T4 and TGAA...onset like this might mean an out of wack thyroid! Don't wait. If it is the cause, it is a simple pill.


----------



## Anna Cheshire (Mar 27, 2012)

I did suggest the thyroid test (as advised on the Forum) but the Vet didn't think it would be that  ... so suggested the behaviourist. 

Would a thyroid problem necessarily mean he would be overweight? He's on the thin side if anything although healthy and within correct weight band.

Thanks


----------



## Tailer'sFolks (Feb 27, 2007)

Our Old Dog Elliot was heavy when we finally had his thyroid checked...it was low.

Tailer is slim, and he also has a low thyroid. 

Neither dog was tested due to aggression, but it's so simple to chech and rule out first.

Go to: Hemopet.org and search their site...Doc Jean Dodds is very helpful and world renouned for her research with thyroid and seizure issues. She also answers e-mail questions quickly. 

I am not saying your vet does not know what they are talking about...it's just so easy to rule out, before you head in another direction. Good Luck!


----------



## FeatherRiverSam (Aug 7, 2009)

If this were my dog I'd have the thyroid panel done ASAP. I'd also have him neutered as soon as possible. Getting these things out of the way will make it that much easier for both you and the behaviorist. I wouldn't put off the behaviorist as I think he / she will help you with your feelings toward this sistuation and help you understand that it's important how you feel while dealing with your dog.

Please keep us updated.

Pete


----------



## Mac'sdad (Dec 5, 2009)

This is on the Aspca web site....

*A Common Myth*

*Neutering as a Quick Fix for All Behavior Problems*

Some people think that neutering a dog will immediately get rid of all his behavior problems. Although it often reduces undesirable behaviors caused by a higher level of testosterone, there’s no a guarantee that your dog’s behavior will change after he’s neutered. Although the surgery will _reduce_ the amount of testosterone in your dog’s system, it won’t eliminate the hormone completely. The effects of neutering are largely dependent on your dog’s individual personality, physiology and history. 
Neutering is unlikely to change fearful or aggressive behavior toward people or other dogs unless the aggression is specifically related to competition over access to female dogs. If your dog continues to have serious behavior problems after he’s neutered


----------



## Wyatt's mommy (Feb 25, 2011)

I personally would have him neutered and go from there. Nothing in life is guaranteed. But that's a good start.


----------



## Montana's Mommy (Mar 10, 2009)

Hello: I feel for you I am going through the same thing with Levi who is almost 2 1/2 years, neutered and the other dog I have is almost 10 years old and a female. They get along great playing and horsing around. Took him to the doggy park the other day!!! What a nightmare!!!! Get out of the car and he is dragging me to the fence, so he starts snarling and foaming at the mouth. Getting all the dogs inside the play yard all worked up. so I stood there for 2 minutes but seemed like forever and 2 of the regulars could see I was nerves and said just let him in he will be fine he just needs to find his place in the pack. Well I did and he went right for this Shepard that was minding his own business. I;m yelling for Levi to stop and everyone is like let him go it's not as bad as it seems. which they didn't go full on fight and Levi did back down. so i took him to the far end and was playing ball and everything was fine and then this big ol goldendoodle female come running down the hill and Levi went after her, she didn't do anything back just kept running. Needless to say I leashed him and left cause I was a bucket of nerves and never have gone back!!! I dont know why he has become like this but it is very scarey when other dogs come around you dont know what he will do. Good luck to you!!!


----------



## GinnyinPA (Oct 31, 2010)

Ben is erratically aggressive with other dogs. He was spayed at 3 years. In his case, it seems to be largely fear based, as he is only aggressive with males that are larger than he is. He's usually fine with small dogs and females. It is scary how quickly sniffing butts can turn into growling and snarling. His thyroid was checked last year for other reasons and it came in normal. 

The reason for your dog's reaction to the two goldens may have been that the was feeling crowded with two large dogs close together. A week ago, Ben was sniffing at a dog at the park and the leashes got tangled. Ben became agitated, because he didn't feel safe having a big male dog so close. He leaped on the dog, subduing him. Neither was hurt, but it was scary.


----------



## Anna Cheshire (Mar 27, 2012)

Many thanks to everyone who has posted - I appreciate your support and promise to keep you updated on Oscar's progress....... he is OK it is me that feels a wreck now until sorted!

Here's a pic of him i took earlier today......


----------



## Tailer'sFolks (Feb 27, 2007)

Your nervousness travels down the leash, so be calm. Have you read "The Other End of the Leash" ? It may give you other behavioral pointers that will help both of you. It is only about 60'ish pages long...google it. You local library may have it too.

Handsome fellow you have there! Always remember, You are Alpha!


----------



## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Anna Cheshire said:


> I did suggest the thyroid test (as advised on the Forum) but the Vet didn't think it would be that  ... so suggested the behaviourist.
> 
> Would a thyroid problem necessarily mean he would be overweight? He's on the thin side if anything although healthy and within correct weight band.
> 
> Thanks


 
My dog was at a healthy weight when he was tested for thyroid and found to need medication. His showed up in his coat not growing back months after being shaved for surgery, and he was grumpier than normal. There is also a school of thought that Goldens as a breed need medication if their thyroid level is in the low end of normal. My dog's coat grew back quickly after starting medication, and his over all mood improved.

Typical signs of low thyroid can be weight gain or the inability to lose weight, poor coat quality, general lethargy, and sometimes behavior changes. But those may not be present and the dog could still need medication.

The behaviorist is a good route to take regardless. When we were working on some behavior problems our trainer asked us to rule out any possible medical causes, low thyroid being one of them.


----------



## Jackson's Mom (Aug 29, 2011)

GinnyinPA said:


> Ben is erratically aggressive with other dogs. He was spayed at 3 years. In his case, it seems to be largely fear based, as he is only aggressive with males that are larger than he is. He's usually fine with small dogs and females. It is scary how quickly sniffing butts can turn into growling and snarling. His thyroid was checked last year for other reasons and it came in normal.


You could totally be describing my dog. I never thought about having his thyroid checked but I'll have to mention it to my vet next time we go, although I really don't think that's it. I do feel better knowing I'm not the only one with a Golden that does that!


----------



## sdain31y (Jul 5, 2010)

I've read in other threads about "leash reactive" dogs. Could some of the behaviour be from that? I've noticed that my neutered 2 yr old male will sometimes snap at another dog, often male. Its usually when the owner lets the other dog crowd him and me and is basically being somewhat pushy. I've started blocking those types of approaches and haven't had a problem since.


----------



## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I was wondering if your female was coming into season? 

Although usually males reach social maturity at around two, your boy might have reached a point where he was saying this is my female and I will fight you about it. If that is the case, neutering him will help some since it will remove a great deal of the testosterone in his system which prompts him to act macho around other males. Of course since he has been intact for awhile, some of his behavior may have become habitual. 

I am glad you are going to see a well respected behaviorist.


----------



## Casey and Samson's Mom (Sep 24, 2011)

If this was a definite difference in behaviour, I would have some blood work done. Sometimes thyroid issues (common in goldens) can cause aggression towards dogs and people. Worth checking out, even if you do go with neutering him.


----------



## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I used to see a German shepherd, that when the owner was holding the leash, she would act like she would rip my face off. If I held the leash, and took the dog away, she was fine., We definitely add stressors thru the leash....


----------



## Anna Cheshire (Mar 27, 2012)

Both incidents happened when Oscar was off his leash and running free - I was in sight of him at all times.

Lots of advice thank you and a few similar incidents ........ 

After the issue with the 2 GRs this week, I immediately put Oscar on his leash and took him home. He was definitely a bit 'sheepish' during the evening as if he knew something wrong had happened.


----------



## JazzSkye (Aug 1, 2011)

Hi,

This may be a stupid question as you've probably already ruled this out, but: is Lexy female and if so, is she coming into season? At nearly 3, you may have a male who's flairing her heat and starting to assert proprietary behavior over the female. Plausible?


----------



## Anna Cheshire (Mar 27, 2012)

Hi,

No Lexy is a male (I know, his name is a bit 'girly') - he is a very laid back dog and even in play with Oscar - he usually let's Oscar instigate the play.


----------



## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Anna*

Anna

Haven't been able to read all the posts here, but have you had the "aggressor" checked out at the vet recently. It could be a medical problem.


----------



## Aislinn (Nov 13, 2010)

I agree with the others. Have his thyroid checked out to rule it out. It's worth the peace of mind if nothing else.


----------



## Anna Cheshire (Mar 27, 2012)

*Update re Oscar*

I'm seeing the behaviourist recommended by the vet on Wednesday.. he wants to see Oscar at home / on lead / off lead with other dogs etc so I will post an update - may be of interest to others.

Thanks to members who sent me PMs - unfortunately I've not posted enough messages on the Forum to qualify to respond..... so apologies for the silence on my part!

Anna


----------



## Tailer'sFolks (Feb 27, 2007)

I've been wondering about you guys! Glad things are on track. I think you need 15 posts...looks like only 4 to go!


----------



## Anna Cheshire (Mar 27, 2012)

Well, we saw the behaviouist today - he was with us for about 3 hours. His overall view, having assessed Oscar is that he probably has been 'frightened' or possibly been attacked by another dog which would be the reason why he behaved the way he did on the 2 ocassions. I did see a really big Rotweiler/Alstation cross have a go at him recently - may have been this?

Anyway, he got me to do lots of things with Oscar on the lead/running free and then meeting other dogs (they were the behaviourists dogs) who posed no threat and whilst he (oscar) was wary, he was OK.

The suggesstion is that we almost go back to basics with training to ensure that Oscar will come back if I call him whilst running free and about to meet another dog. I was the one being trained today I think  which is OK as I feel I have lost a bit of confidence. I was always scared of dogs before getting Oscar and Lexy (now 7).

So lots of training tips/exercises and we see the guy in about 2 weeks again. Oscar seems to really have enjoyed the session and relished in some of the things he was doing - however I am now shattered but so pleased we are about to resolve the 'blip'. 

I'll update progress (mine as well as Oscar's)!!


----------



## elly (Nov 21, 2010)

Thats great news, it sounds like its a good possibility and hopefully with training will be something you can resolve fairly simply. It sounds like you had a really good session and was time and money well spent, will look forward to your updates. Well done


----------



## Tailer'sFolks (Feb 27, 2007)

Great! Glad you are on track...patience, practice, practice, practice...


----------



## Tailer'sFolks (Feb 27, 2007)

How's it going? Any training tips you learn?


----------



## Anna Cheshire (Mar 27, 2012)

I've got training and homework - the test of how much I've learned will become evident when the Behavourist sees me next!! 

I'll keep you posted with my 1st Report!


----------



## Sydney's Mom (May 1, 2012)

How's this going? I'm dealing with my 2.5 yr old golden showing random aggression to some dogs in the park and looking for whatever tips you may have!


----------

