# Desparate for Help with an Aggressive 10 month old Male



## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Dutch*

Dutch

I am so sorry to hear about Rusty. Have you had Rusty to the vet to rule out a medical reason/condition that is causing this?


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## FinnTastic (Apr 20, 2009)

Bumping Up
You could try a Vet Behaviorist. I'm sure people with more training experience will be able to chime in on this.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Bumping*

bumping up for more help


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Bumping...Reddogs lives in Ohio. She can point you to someone that can help you. Hang in there.


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## Summer's Mom (Oct 20, 2010)

Definitely try a vet behaviorist if you can. They can helpmdiagnose if there is an underlying medical condition. Would you say the change in behavior was sudden or gradual im onset?

He could be in some kind of pain that confuses him and causes him to lash out. Just a thought...


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

Where are you in Ohio? I know there are good vet behaviorists at Purdue in Central Indiana that Reddogs use. Hope she answers this thread.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

Depending on where you are, the Animal Behavior Clinic at Purdue;
Vet Behavior Clinic

We also now have a veterinary behaviorist at OSU:
Behavior |

Due to the number of instances, the extent of the behavior, and the potential danger, please consider consulting with a veterinary behaviorist at this point (if you choose to continue on the problem solving path) rather than a trainer. 

Until your consult or decision, keep your dog crated/gated/contained in a separate area of the house other than when you are doing specific activities with him. Use caution handlng him.

If you need help or have specific questions about the above places, please PM or post.


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

The first thing I would do is get him a medical check-up as well. This isn't normal behaviour in the least. 



> Rusty went into such an aggressive mode when the trainer was here, the trainer said he wasn't equipped to handle him and we should probably put him down since no one will take an aggressive dog.


He's wrong and this is the sign of a poor trainer. If he can't handle him that is fine, but to say that because he's incapable the dog should be destroyed is disgusting and beyond ridiculous.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Braccarius said:


> The first thing I would do is get him a medical check-up as well. This isn't normal behaviour in the least.
> 
> 
> 
> He's wrong and this is the sign of a poor trainer. If he can't handle him that is fine, but to say that because he's incapable the dog should be destroyed is disgusting and beyond ridiculous.


Same thought. 

Please contact those vet behavioralists that RedDogs recommended. I'm not sure if they would recommend which tests to have done (thyroid, epilepsy, nerve disorder, etc) but I would also contact a good vet first if not. 

All my best.


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## Willow52 (Aug 14, 2009)

Braccarius said:


> The first thing I would do is get him a medical check-up as well. This isn't normal behaviour in the least.
> 
> 
> 
> He's wrong and this is the sign of a poor trainer. If he can't handle him that is fine, but to say that because he's incapable the dog should be destroyed is disgusting and beyond ridiculous.


ditto on both counts.

There could very well be a medical rather behavior issue going on here.


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## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

I would go to a vet, like others have, to see if there is a health/pain issue.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

It seems to me, given that the pup was showing signs of resource guarding at seven weeks that there is a physiological basis to the problem, possibly a brain chemistry problem. I also think that a vet behaviorist is your best bet and I would go to a vet school for a consult. 

For safety sake for the immediate future, I would use a crate or x-pen for feeding and keep him in the crate or x-pen for an hour after eating. I would also have a drag leash (a six foot leash with the handle removed) on him at all time, so when he starts to tense up or act aggressively you can remove him safely.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Is he biting you or your wife (or anyone) or trying to bite? What is he doing exactly? You mention that he "went after" your wife a couple of times but never mentioned a bite or attempted bite. Just for clarification.


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## Discoverer (Feb 3, 2011)

dutch490 said:


> ... since Rusty is my only friend ...


I am not a shrink, but I think this is your problem. When we are taking dog as a human we'll have a behavioral issue. There are two major factors for aggression - fear and lack of leadership. Do you consider yourself as a pack leader? If not - your dog has no choice, but had to be the alpha in your pack. There is no other way ! Submissive dog will never growl or attack the leaders. I would recommend to watch the Caesar Milan video. I really impressed with this guy and the way he handle the dogs, especially aggressive dogs. But of course check your vet first to verify there is no medical problems here, which I highly doubt.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Discoverer said:


> I am not a shrink, but I think this is your problem. When we are taking dog as a human we'll have a behavioral issue. There are two major factors for aggression - fear and lack of leadership. Do you consider yourself as a pack leader? If not - your dog has no choice, but had to be the alpha in your pack. There is no other way ! Submissive dog will never growl or attack the leaders. I would recommend to watch the Caesar Milan video. I really impressed with this guy and the way he handle the dogs, especially aggressive dogs. But of course check your vet first to verify there is no medical problems here, which I highly doubt.


I strongly disagree. Your dog can be your friend and still respect you.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

How are things going? Have you been able to get an appointment with a vet behaviorist? Please stay in touch.


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## Discoverer (Feb 3, 2011)

kdmarsh said:


> I strongly disagree. Your dog can be your friend and still respect you.


I didn't say the dog cannot be your friend, but it won't be easy for him (and for both of you) if he is the *only* your friend. Also would be interesting to know your definition of "being a friend with a dog"


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## Bell (Jan 23, 2010)

Your only option is to put him down???A 10 month old?Please,don't consider it an option at all.It would be a crime-he's still a puppy.I know he scares you,i understand,that this problem is serious.Try to work on it,look for professional help,rehome him to someone who has dealt with dogs that have that problem,start hand feeding him again...There are so many options but one-puting him down.This would be the worst decision.Good luck,don't do anything,you will regret.
P.S-I don't even want to say what i think about the trainer that said that....


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Discoverer said:


> I am not a shrink, but I think this is your problem. When we are taking dog as a human we'll have a behavioral issue. There are two major factors for aggression - fear and lack of leadership. Do you consider yourself as a pack leader? If not - your dog has no choice, but had to be the alpha in your pack. There is no other way ! Submissive dog will never growl or attack the leaders. I would recommend to watch the Caesar Milan video. I really impressed with this guy and the way he handle the dogs, especially aggressive dogs. But of course check your vet first to verify there is no medical problems here, which I highly doubt.


I didn't want to go off topic, but since you are looking for a puppy, it had to be said -

Fear-Aggression comes from submissive dogs. Especially if you use Caesar Milan's methods and do not do them correctly or overdo them. And you do NOT have to be the pack leader or alpha with every dog and every situation, beyond what is common sense. 

Dogs who are handled gently and with love have fewer emotional and psychological issues than dogs who are constantly put into their place by an over-zealous owner. 

If people are going to pick up training tips from a TV show, I'd much prefer people watch other trainers - like Virginia Stilwell and Uncle Matty. And even they are not ideal, because people watching TV shows get a false sense of how "easy" it is to train a dog and to correct issues a dog might be having. 

FWIW - my golden is more than my friend. He's my smoochy baby-child. And I believe all goldens deserve to be given the same love - around the home and while training. 

@topic - It's been a couple weeks since the last post. I hope everything is OK with the original poster and dog....


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## Bell (Jan 23, 2010)

I just wanted to add,that most young dogs go through this stage,in my opinion.Like they are testing their owners,seeing if they could dominate.We had something like that when my boy was 8 months old.He growled and showed his teeth,wasn't happy with me being around when he eats.I said a sharp ''NO!!!",tapped his muzzle(not hart at all,just to help him snap out of it)and took his food.He let me ,so i gave him back his food.Then,when i tried to take it,he growled a little again.So i decided i would hand feed him and pet him while he eats,without touching the food at first.It only took 3 days,i was getting closer to the food and it worked.Now,i test him now and then-he's perfect,i would trust him around children.I'm glad i chose the positive approach,it worked perfectly.I hope you have luck with your boy.Be patient,don't get angry or scared.In the worst case rehome him to a home with no children and experienced dog people.


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## Florabora22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Discoverer said:


> I didn't say the dog cannot be your friend, but it won't be easy for him (and for both of you) if he is the *only* your friend. Also would be interesting to know your definition of "being a friend with a dog"


She's my buddy. I go on hikes with her, walk her, play with her. I don't have any family within 900 miles of where I'm living so she's my family. She's my friend! I don't know what sort of definition you're expecting. :

ETA that I hope the OP has found some help with this problem. To me it does not sound like normal behavior for a golden. I almost hope that there's something medically wrong with the dog so they can treat it and his behavior can improve.


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## lily101 (Nov 8, 2010)

i know this isnt something you probably want to here but we had the same problem with another dog he wasnt a golden he was just a mutt and the best dog ever (with us) we socialized him with many people they all loved him he was playful and loving, except when he turned about 8 months old he became agressive with everyone and there was this girl that i used to babysit and we were walking in the door and out of nowhere here he comes by passes me and attacks her (the girl was only 8) and i felt so bad but i had to choke him by his collar to get him off and thankfully he didnt hurt her for stitches but she did have a nice size cut but to be honest she was never nice to him and always torturing we were always removing him from the room and not alowwing her to be near him for periods of a time and even bought a shocking collar, and then after a couple months we again walked through the door and he attacked her but this time i had to kick him off her and the thing is she only had a bruise that looked like it had alread been there but there was nothing i could prove and he did attack her. ( i felt terrible) and lets put it this way i never got to say goodbye and i never saw him again.....my mom called the vet and he said bring him in and my parents did and that was that.....its a very hard dissision and my parents were always thinking about putting hii=m down before this incident. yes i know after he was gone life seemed easier but theres always that place in your heart saying what if you could have helped him? and what if it was our fault for not controlling him enough, but i cant answer those i'm just sayign there will alwasy be what if.. and its a hard thing to think about and i hope you can fix the problem (sorry i know this probably didnt help but its sounds almost like what your going through except the dog never attacked us just other people that tried to enter our house) goodluck!


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

Discoverer said:


> I am not a shrink, but I think this is your problem. When we are taking dog as a human we'll have a behavioral issue. There are two major factors for aggression - fear and lack of leadership. Do you consider yourself as a pack leader? If not - your dog has no choice, but had to be the alpha in your pack. There is no other way ! Submissive dog will never growl or attack the leaders. I would recommend to watch the Caesar Milan video. I really impressed with this guy and the way he handle the dogs, especially aggressive dogs. But of course check your vet first to verify there is no medical problems here, which I highly doubt.


A lot of people make two big mistakes when trying to apply the "Cesar" philosophy to animals they meet or live with. First off, he makes them do full blood panels checking for any diseases or problems in the animal. I would be interested to see how many of his candidates for the show simply get thyroid medication. The second thing about Cesar is that people seem to forget that on his show he is dealing with animals who are.... for all intensive purposes.. messed up.

Humanizing a dog is only an issue if the dog is fubar to begin with. You don't want to treat a fearful dog the same way you would a fearful two year old. They don't compute our actions the same way... if you coddle a fearful dog you reinforce the fear because they cannot rationalize. Saying that if you treat your dog well, or talk to them, or have them as your only friend is a misnomer. My dogs are my best friends. There's no doubt about it. Does that mean they are vicious, angry, unhappy unbalanced animals? Heck no. My two are friendly and unfearful. 

I am actually watching people in the dog park alpha rolling their dog for not bringing a ball to them. And I'm thinking, man, I wouldn't bring the ball back either if every time you got a hold of me you flung me on my back either. A lot of people focus on the show on his negative behavioural techniques and his corrections of biting, alpha rolling etc. But, few see the positive techinques or his rapport building with the animal.
______

An interesting tidbit: I met a couple with a lab who is (in their terms) "very reactive to small dogs. Almost as though the animal enters a prey-like state." Well she saw the schipperkee I was with and ran overtop of him and attacked him for no reason and without warning. I was in there instantly (he was at my feet) and literally pried the dog out of her yap and neither dog was injured (thanks only to the fact Bubba is all fur). Then I noticed something very interesting.... with Harley and Miri she's very playful and has confidence. When she was near Bubba her tail tucked in and her body posture lowered and pretty much screamed "I'm unsure". This dog has been Alpha rolled and "dominated" every time she has an interaction with a small dog for months and now associates them with her fear. They have never praised good behaviour and only her bad behaviour was acknowledged. As a result, this dog see's a small dog she wants it dead because they cause her owners to scare her. What I'm wondering in her case is when she's going to start biting people who are "correcting her".


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> A lot of people focus on the show on his negative behavioural techniques and his corrections of biting, alpha rolling etc.


I've never seen his show... period. But going by what everybody seems to take from his show (alpha pins), I'm not a fan. 

I do believe in the whole alpha approach, but only the psychology of it and how it helps you understand dogs or how to approach them. Not in the correctional stuff. 

The closest I've come to seeing a Caesar Milan show was when he went on a show I like to watch and made him out to be some kind of training god who could walk into a kennel of barking and snarling dogs and get them to hush instantly. Seriously, gag me.


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

I started watching his show on DVD just to see what the hubub is all about. I have noticed one huge thing though, his earlier techinques have changed a whole hell of a lot compared to his later DVD. I bought season one and saw the first three episodies and he was TST'ing his way around alpha rolling and kicking dogs. Now I watch his show and he's doing a lot more positive reinforcement and encouragement. 

I'm not a fan of his earlier stuff at all.... but some of his later episodes are really good.

His pack mentality, leadership stuff is hokey.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

> His pack mentality, leadership stuff is hokey.


Heh - meaning the dog-think stuff that I'm somewhat OK with? Or just his specific brand of it? 

The dog-think and/or pack mentality stuff... I've used that with my dogs and even horses. It does work. Or at least, if you are trying to get through to a flighty or frightened animal, you need to know what your body language or movements mean to that animal and adjust. <- That is the difference between chasing a horse all day and getting a flighty horse to come to you. Same thing with training dogs and getting through to them.

^ That isn't the same as walking into a horse's field and making like you are the boss mare every time. Or forcing your dog to kowtow to you because you are the alpha wolf. Or whatever.


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

Megora said:


> Heh - meaning the dog-think stuff that I'm somewhat OK with? Or just his specific brand of it?


His, if you don't walk out the door first or walk in front of the dog he is going to assume you are weak and he will take leadership from you. The "In order for this dog to be a dog, I have to take him back to when he was a puppy and have him immersed in puppies". The "claw" that mimics the bite of an alpha dog..... just random stuff like that sorta always made me raise an eyebrow.


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## Braccarius (Sep 8, 2008)

On the flip side I find myself liking his psychology aspect of it and blaming the owner for the dogs problems... not the dog. I also like his emphasis on exercise and there a bunch of other things that Cesar does that I do in fact see as a big plus. 

If anything Cesar has made people realize you HAVE TO EXERCISE your dogs. This alone should win him a medal.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

braccarius said:


> if anything cesar has made people realize you have to exercise your dogs. This alone should win him a medal.


 Amen! Amen!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Braccarius said:


> His, if you don't walk out the door first or walk in front of the dog he is going to assume you are weak and he will take leadership from you. The* "In order for this dog to be a dog, I have to take him back to when he was a puppy and have him immersed in puppies".* The "claw" that mimics the bite of an alpha dog..... just random stuff like that sorta always made me raise an eyebrow.


:bowl:

Gotcha. 

It sounds like he took a lot of the basic training/psychology stuff and gave it a kooky spin.


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