# Grooming suggestions



## Tvbirt (Dec 11, 2018)

*The other photos*

These are the rest of the photos from my last post


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Tvbirt, I merged your two threads together so the photos would be in the same thread.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Couple thoughts...

The first one would be regarding showing. There's a number of things to be aware of before showing a dog. They do have to have full registration. And then you need somebody helping you who knows the breed standard. With this girlie - she looks like a very sweet girl and I'm pretty pleased to see people doing stuff with their dogs and getting them out and about and taking pride in them. But among else, I'd really want to check and see if she's breed standard height. She looks a little tall, but that could be a optical illusion because she's very long and leggy right now. Measure floor to the withers.

The length of body and her being high in the rear (and a little sinky in the middle) is something to watch if you want to show her because by 12-15 months dogs who fell apart between 4 months and 9 months are starting to come back together. 

For showing a dog, you want a straight muscular topline from butt bone to withers. After that, you would be looking for overall balance front end to back end. The way people visualize that is creating triangles from shoulder/withers to front shoulder/chest bone to elbow in front and hip bone to knee bone to back tip of the hock bone in back. Ideally, those triangles should be close to equal. 

That's a step more important than the next important thing, which is evaluating whether a dog is very straight (not an issue with this dog). Meaning is that dog very straight (the angles of those triangles) and limited in front and back? When a dog is very straight, that affects movement. That dog is one who probably has no reach at all - if very straight. Golden retrievers are a breed where you win or lose a lot of the time based on movement. You could have a perfectly groomed gorgeous dog who looks terrible when viewed from the front or side when moving. 

Additionally, when a dog is stacked for showing - 

You want to place the front feet so the toes are a straight line down from the front tip of the shoulders (and legs straight up and down when viewed from both the side and the front). 

And then you want to place the rear feet so the front of the rear toes are a straight line down from the butt bone. The hocks need to be straight up and down. 

The overall picture when viewing the side of a stacked dog is you want to see an almost square dog. Goldens are a pinch longer than they are tall. 

For girlies - they should not be as tall as the boys. They typically are about an inch shorter. The breed standard is 21.5-22.5 for girls. And there's an inch leeway either way before a dog is disqualified. Most show girlies out there are about 22".

^^^^ I'm sharing all of that because they are all considerations before showing a dog. And believe me it's easier to see what's going on with other people's dogs than it is to see it in your dog (or a dog you see every day and love very much and/or have a lot of plans for). It also gets very confusing because a lot of people out there don't take the time to learn the breed standard before they hitch a ride on some bandwagons out there. And a lot of beginners get mixed messages about what should or shouldn't be there. 

As far as grooming goes.

1. The tail looks very neatly trimmed, but, would just trim the end so it's more of a "poof" and tidy up odd hairs in the rest of the tail. We don't shape the whole tail. 

1.2. The "trousers" look trimmed, we do not typically trim the trousers. Ditto trimming any fur on the back or belly. With golden retrievers and show grooming - we trim the feet, ears, and tail. These are the primary areas that are trimmed as a matter of course. There is some thinning around the neck that's done as part trimming the ears, also smoothing out the ruff on the sides (goldens get a ridge there). For a golden who doesn't have much coat though - you would not trim anywhere but the ears, feet, and trimming up the length of the tail to the hock bone. 

2. Feet - with golden retrievers, we want their feet to look like nice rounded cat feet vs hare or hound feet. And generally how that is done is just trimming the length around foot up to the pad, including around the front and between the nails in front and a little more in back. The more length you can leave on the top, the more "poofy" you can make the feet look when showing. When you trim the feet very close or the dog doesn't have a lot of length on the feet, there's not a lot you can do about it beyond trimming around the foot and making the feet look tidy. 

Ideally, you don't want to cut very close at all on the top of the foot. There IS some shaping that's done on the top, but very carefully because too much taken off can make a nice foot look flat.

I shared a pic of one of my puppy's litttermates' feet. I am currently STRUGGLING to keep my pup from flailing and running away when it's time to trim his feet so I'm blessed if I can get his feet to look even half that good! (am pretty sure the breeder trimmed these at a recent show) This is a 5 month old pup's feet so not a lot of hair just yet, but you can see that you can still get that nice tight cat's paw shape.

3. right now I would focus on both growing coat + caring for the coat. Particularly on the front legs. There's not a lot of feathering there. She might not have too much, but what little grows, you kinda want to encourage. 

The hocks - I would not trim the backs of the hocks at all on this dog. 

4. You don't show the ears on her, but I will go ahead and give advice there too.  Trim the outer edges of the ears with 7-8" straight shears. That is the only place on the ears that you would use straight shears. You can also use a stripper (mars stripper) to clean up excess hair behind and under the ears where goldens get a lot of shag. If you have a good pair of thinning shears - you can use those to further tidy up around the ears, but depending on how much you have to clean up, you can accomplish a lot with selective use of a stripping knife (which be careful they can be sharp enough to cut skin). 

Again straight edge shears are only used on the rear edge of the ear (the pic of my pup, that's the outer edge away from his face.

There is only limited trimming ever done on the front edge of the ears - and NEVER EVER with straight edge shears. When in doubt, let it be.

Ideally, you don't need to go crazy. I included a finished/cleaned up ear for my pup. You can see I still left a lot of hair on the ear. That was just stripping some of the thickness out on and around the ears with a mars stripper, trimming the outer edge of the ear with long straight edge shears and just going over that with a stripping knife to smooth it all out and calling it done.


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

you saved me typing all that! Especially the hocks part - it may take a year or more before she gets enough hair there to shape at all, don't cut it again! -and growing coat... I'd add give a lot of baths, blow dries.. and try to get her a little road work, at the right speed for her body so she is not running all out but gaiting properly. That muscle memory will be good to have when you start showing her. I think she looks tall too- so to balance that out a little w more body- it's going to be a fine line to add body without adding overweight. But she could do with a couple more pounds (that you can get adding muscle!). 

Are her parents coated? Mostly coat is genetic. If you have the genes for it, you can enhance what you have w supplements. Does your breeder show? She can be a lot of help if she does.


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## Tvbirt (Dec 11, 2018)

The breeder doesn’t show at all and I am not supper worried about finishing Her my main focus is to learn how the breed is shown and groomed since as a junior I want to learn to show new breeds and I take every chance I get. So thankyou so much for the tips cause I want to learn to groom properly and show the breed properly even if the confirmation of the dog is bad. She is from more of a field line of retrievers. She’s got a lot of leg and is 12 months.


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## Tvbirt (Dec 11, 2018)

She is fully registered and I didn’t trim her trousers.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Tvbirt said:


> She is fully registered and I didn’t trim her trousers.


I wasn't sure - it was tough to tell with the tail before and after pics. I mentioned it as part of the rundown of all the grooming needs for this breed. 

Just as it wasn't clear whether this dog was being shown in regular conformation or not. 

I always aim to keep my comments helpful and positive - especially for anyone getting into showing the breed. It's pretty important to know what should be there and learn more about breed standards and structure. Especially since there is a lot of misinformation and confusion about the physical breed standard. Knowing your dog's strengths or what's going on with the dog - goes into how you groom the dog and how to handle the dog.


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## Tvbirt (Dec 11, 2018)

Thankyou so much you have been extremely helpful in laying out what I need to look for and do confirmation wise and grooming thankyou so much!!!!!


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## kjengold (Jun 19, 2007)

Kate and Robin did a great job critiquing.

A couple more things I'd add. It would help if you could get her nails back. What I do when I know I'm going to be showing is trim the nails Sunday and Wednesday. I take a bit back on each day, so I don't hit the quick and in a month, the nails are back, which also helps the foot look tighter and cat like.

A couple of conformation books I still refer to are, The Winning Edge by George Alston and Show Me! by Caroline Coile.

There also are several DVD's that might help with the grooming. I don't know if they're still available, but one is Erik Strickland's, Grooming Your Golden and the other is Debi Oster's, See The Difference. One I know is available is The Winning Way (Grooming Your Golden For The Show Ring). It's being sold to raise money for the 2019 National. The link is: https://squareup.com/store/2019National


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## Tvbirt (Dec 11, 2018)

I will definitely do that and look into those videos!


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## Laura Price (Dec 24, 2018)

I too have a new pup that I will be showing this coming year. She is just a weewee now, turning 7 weeks this weekend so for me telling where she is conformation wise is tough. Im sur tehre are those of you out there that can tell as they come out who they will look . For me, shes cute, obnoxious floof ball.

Anyways, being a groomer I had the same kind of questions. There is a huge difference between pet and show grooming and i want to make sure Im doing the right thing from the start. As a pet groomer I get rid of that under coat, long butt and leg feathers and hair on the tummy and feet. I know thats probably all a no no for showing. I want to start her now so it will all be old hat for both of us when it comes time to do it for real. I have introduced her to the drier, nail trimmers, dremel clippers (Just the noise ) etc. Shes pretty good for her bath...but it makes it really easy to mop after 

Like the OP, I dont know if her confirmation will be up to par. Chances are probably not, she too is from more of a hunting line, but her dad had a gorgeous coat and was more of typical golden. Square head, body, not too leggy. Mom was more of a field type with a short coat , longer nose etc. Either way, I just want to get my feet wet and see if its something I enjoy before I spend thousands upon thousands for a "show" dog.Are there things to look for as she grows? I know they go through a couple of gangly stretches (Those are my favorite ages!!) so things will change a few times, but things in general? Her bite looks good and she is OFA certified. She is fully registered. Not sure what else to look for at this age.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

For show grooms - 

1. Trim nails short. You don't want them touching the ground when the dogs are standing square. 

2. Trim around the feet - there's "tightening" up around the paws to create a very tidy, rounded, catlike paw.

3. Trim up on the ears. You do not want shag on the ears, under the ears, or even ridges going down the sides of the necks. 

4. Neaten the hocks and tail. 

^ All trimming above is done a very certain way and you are best off learning from a handler or an experienced breeder handler and paying somebody else to groom your dog. You may go 5 shows or 6 months before you start grooming your own dog for shows. 

Me personally - if I get to show my pup sooner vs later, I'm having somebody else groom him. Why? Because I'm used to grooming my adult dog. BUT - grooming a pup is different. There's less coat, means less room for error. 

5. How you blow dry after bathing matters - especially if you are not using products on your dog. And this breed showing to breeder judges, it's best not using product. Even showing to all breed judges, you don't want to go crazy. <= I was sitting near a ring and had to cover my mouth to hide a grin as I overheard a judge go after some poodle people, yelling at them not to be spraying their dogs right in front of him. Poodle handlers are pretty blatant with the hairspray and in this case, there were a handful of dogs standing on wet towels outside the ring being sprayed all over in front of the judge.

With goldens because texture of the coat is one of the things being checked by judges, hairspray is not advisable. So you have to build body by how you bathe and blow dry. 



> Are there things to look for as she grows? I know they go through a couple of gangly stretches (Those are my favorite ages!!) so things will change a few times, but things in general?


About the only thing aside from what I already wrote... pups need to be full height before being shown at 6 months. 

And don't assume that all pups are going to be gangly at months. Showing a 6 month old pup - you are showing in a 6-9 month class. And a lot of these show pups can be very mature looking at 8 and just under 9 months. And they are all groomed as well as the adults are, so there's no skimping on grooming. 



> Her bite looks good


Knock on wood. Teeth can go wrong when adult teeth come in - even if all puppy teeth were there.



> and she is OFA certified. She is fully registered. Not sure what else to look for at this age.


I know what you mean, but gotta say anyway - she can't be OFA certified.

OFA certifications =

Hips were graded fair, good, or excellent.
Elbows graded normal.
Heart graded normal.
Eyes graded normal. 

Only think your pup could be certified for right now is eyes. Heart shouldn't be done prior to 12 months. Hips and elbows can't be done prior to 24 months.

And further info throwing out there for anyone - if parents have full clearances, this means you can look their names up on OFA (offa.org) and they will have a page on that database displaying their clearances. If hips and elbows are not displayed on OFA, they have not been cleared.


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## Laura Price (Dec 24, 2018)

Thank you for all the info. So much to think about. Youre right, I said it wrong. 
Mom and dad are OFA certified ,not her.


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