# Advice for a new rescuer with a problematic adopter



## naturewalk (Dec 24, 2010)

I'll make this as brief as possible. 

For any rescuers out there, have you ever had to "re-claim" a puppy who was adopted out? We are new at this, and now we know why rescuers have forms that are 5 pages long.

We adopted a rescued mix to a nice family, and that was after a month long search. We had a few reasonable requirements, like all rescue groups, and also bc of the certain needs of this puppy, one of which was a fenced in yard. We screened 15 people - I did prescreen questionnaires and then phone screens, then, when we found the a good match, a home visit.

(Btw, I know some people already don't like the fence requirement, and I don't want to get into a side discussion about there here, but do want to add that we do not always require this, it's just for certain dogs who really need a yard to run in or for other special reasons. In this case it was *mandatory* as I explained in detail during phone screenings.)

The day before we did the home visit, the woman explained that they did not exactly have the fence yet... they_ 'were in the process of building' _a fence for their yard. They 'already had the permit and everything and contacted the builders, and it would be up in a week or so.'

Because everything else was fine, I trusted the mom when she said they had applied for the permit already and were just 'starting' the job. She was very convincing. It was an awkward situation, but I was torn about worrying I would be unreasonable to turn her down. I felt "bad for them" as if I would be too hard on them to "not trust" this kind suburban family who was so doe-eyed over the puppy.

It turned out I was just completely manipulated -- I think I caved in too easily and was simply lied to. 

We always do follow ups and two weeks later, the fence was not even started! The mom had said that the permit was delayed, so now of course that meant the fence would be constructed "weather permitting."

Oh, no, we thought. We have a dishonest adopter who is now giving us anxiety attacks. We explained to her that it is mandatory and not up to her to decide when to do it; it was our binding agreement.

We managed to find out that we could contact the city offices and check up on this for ourselves, and they told us that the household _just applied that very day!_ Obviously, they were spurred into action by our follow ups. But that still meant that during our screening, the date we have on record as the date the applied for a permit was, well, a total lie.

We surmised that she was dragging her feet so the ground would freeze in the winter and by that time, maybe we would just go away, which we will never do, as our follow ups are for life.

Another rescue person told us that this is exactly what happens when you "just trust" adopting families, that they will lie about everything, including spay and neuter, and will you can never, ever believe people's words. Everything must be up front, guaranteed with deposits, and _long,_ legal docs that make it clear the dog will be taken away if agreements are broken.

We how feel horrible -- guilty, dumb and upset, as if we made a hideous mistake, and now are considering demanding re-possession. But are not sure if this entails showing up at the door or going to court.

Anyway, if anyone has any advice, please advise. Thank you.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

This why our rescue NEVER lets a dog/pup go without the fence already installed.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

A lot of people complain about how stringent some rescues are, but as you found out, there are very valid reasons for what the requirements are. Most of the rescues have found out the hard way. I refuse to adopt out on a S/N contract for this very reason. Our rescue allows it with puppies, but I keep my foster until they are old enough to alter. That is my non-negotiable deal killer.

If you don't have a contract with the adopters that specifically spells out that you require a fence, you are probably SOL, unfortunately. Even when it's spelled out, you may not be able to get the dog back, the courts may only give you the value of the dog, since they are "just" property.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

What I would do, is get someone to go to the neighbor's houses, and ask how they're doing with the pup. Are they letting it run loose, walking it on leash or??? 

If the fence is in the works and none of the neighbors are concerned, then give them a deadline to get a fence in, even if it's a temp one for the time being (like two xpens attached together) and let them know you'll have to take the pup back if it's not done. But really if they're being responsible, is it really worth it to take the pup back? You did give them the pup knowing the fence wasn't built at the time.

Reminds me to suggest to our rescue to ask for neighbor's phone numbers....


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## Rhapsody in Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

What is most important is whether the pup is well cared for. Yes, I realize you have your document issues - you've got a problem there; however, right now, you want to ensure that the pup that you entrusted in their care is getting adequate exercise, is safe, and is loved. Personally, I could work with someone if I knew they were doing everything to care for the pup. No yard is enough for a golden. We have a fenced in area for our three pups, but they get a lot of time to socialize, run, and play outside of our yard - every day. 

Perhaps the owners had every intention of installing a fence and then when they saw the cost, it became a problem. It could be that while you are thinking about liability and your paperwork, they are worried every day of losing that pup they probably fell in love with and now could be pinched for funds to follow through on the rest of the agreement. Its not good - but it is what it is. Since you entered into this agreement with the owners, now is the time to have a heart to heart - ask them, how are you going to manage this? Partner with them. Come up with a plan. Think of the pup first and foremost.


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## lgnutah (Feb 26, 2007)

Does your contract stipulate that you can take the dog back if they don't abide by the agreement they made with you?
If it doesn't, I can't imagine how you could take the dog back.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I think I would do a home visit to physically see how the pup is doing. That way you can see what his condition, demeanor is like. Also you can talk to the neighbors and the family. At that same time you can put the fear of DOG rescuerer into them. You might tell them you already know they lied to you since you contacted the city.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

You need to get the puppy back, if they lied about the fence they probably lied about everything else too.


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## naturewalk (Dec 24, 2010)

Thank you so, so much for these replies. Even if there is no easy solution, just to have the feedback is very helpful.

First, no, we did not write that if the fence issue is violated the dog will be taken back. I have to investigate this further, but I know verbal agreements can be binding. And courts know that people often do not make lawyerly legal written contracts about every detail. Many agreements are verbal, like promises to perform a service in exchange for something. Of course you do have to prove the agreement took place.

At the least, I'm sure we could create make enough legal pressure so that they have to put the fence up.

Adopters running into finanical trouble -- I feel it's not my place to feel badly for them about their personal finances bc it would only lead to endless emails & the risk of being manipulated again. I feel I must sternly commit only to what is best for the dog, not for the family. I know that sounds harsh, but I was already too sympathetic before.

'...they are probably lying about everything else'-- this is what concerns me so much. I don't trust them at all now. Given what we found out @ the permit, the woman lied three times over the course of weeks about the fence, so it seems she planned the lie, and strung me along, rather than stumbled into it.

Before I send a stern email to her, I have to figure out the best approach. She will certainly have to account for this one way or another. I am upset at this family. If people cannot comply with the requirements of the rescue group than for heaven's sake, go to a breeder or a shelter and leave us be. 

I don't know if it's just my region of the country, but many of the applicants were difficult, and I regretfully admit it began to wear on me. (It will never wear at me again. I learned my lesson!) 

One person said our simple questions like, "how long will the dog be alone during the day' were "judgmental" (!) A guy went ballistic when I requested our standard home visit. He said he would never allow 'strangers' in his house. 

Adopters don't get that we don't rescue and adopt out to make people happy, but to make the dogs happy, safe and best cared for. I will never trust the public again, and should I get the strength to foster again, I will use the 5-page form that another rescue group sent me, and make sure that the adopters know the dog will be taken back at any breach of the contract.

Going forward, all the little things that we could do to actually enforce these issues (a requirement for monthly follow up home visits for 12 months? more deposits? more references?) is something I have to figure out.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

If they tell you it is money issues, then that is another big red flag. Especially since they just adopted this dog. They obviously didnt take into consideration the cost of a fence before adopting and lied upfront about getting the fence to get the dog. I think I would be making a trip over to the house and sitting them down and telling them you have no chose but to take the dog with you. Especially if you see nothing being done with the fence. That would be done after I spoke to the neighbors. These people lied all around and you have to do what is best for the dog. Your rescue president might talk to your lawyer if you have one that volunteers with the rescue or if you have one on retainer. I know our rescue does. Also since you have run into this problem with this adopter, I would have them re write your contracts to state there is no, if ands or buts in the fence rule, unless written approval by the rescue. And also write into the contract that if any of the contract is broken by the adopter they agree to give the dog back at any time. And have them initial those specific sections.


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## Rhapsody in Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

naturewalk said:


> First, no, we did not write that if the fence issue is violated the dog will be taken back. I have to investigate this further, but I know verbal agreements can be binding . . .
> At the least, I'm sure we could create make enough legal pressure so that they have to put the fence up.
> 
> Adopters running into finanical trouble -- I feel it's not my place to feel badly for them about their personal finances bc it would only lead to endless emails & the risk of being manipulated again.
> ...


I doubt you have any ground to stand on. You need to have an attorney work on the language in your agreement.

These are tough times for many people - really tough times and I, for one, feel you are being really negative and it is all about the paperwork to you. That is what is coming across to me. I would like to see your energy re-directed towards a solution - not enforcement of a "contract" that you probably cannot enforce. 

If you are truly there for the welfare of the pup, then get going. Visit their home. Take the pup for a walk yourself. Within 20 minutes you'll have a feel for how much exercise the pup is getting. And if the pup is not well cared for, then you better have a plan. How are you going to remove this pup from their home without a contract? 

I believe you are on shakey ground. I would put all of my energy into working with them. They may surprise you.


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## naturewalk (Dec 24, 2010)

Marty's Mom said:


> These are tough times for many people - really tough times and I, for one, feel you are being really negative and it is all about the paperwork to you. That is what is coming across to me. I would like to see your energy re-directed towards a solution - not enforcement of a "contract" that you probably cannot enforce.
> 
> If you are truly there for the welfare of the pup


I lost sleep over this problem; it is not about being 'negative' & it is *NOT* at all about the paperwork for me. It is about the puppy. 

I know these are tough times and this is why I bent the rule and tried to give them time and room. It was a mistake. If they could not have afforded the fence then they were free to find another dog that did not have a fence requirement attached.

Taking the dog for a walk won't prove anything.

Sorry, but I don't think you are able to understand this issue. Thanks anyway.


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## Rhapsody in Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

Since they don't have a fenced in yard, walking the pup will give you a feel for his behavior - it will be very telling. If the pup can't be walked on a leash - you know he lacks experience - if the pup is out of control behavior wise, you know he isn't getting exercise. That is huge - and that is something worth talking to them about, sooner, rather than later. 

I do empathize with you - we foster for a rescue. I don't doubt you care. If you find the pup is doing well, it makes the rest of the discussion go a lot easier. Thats your starting point - not the paperwork.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

As someone that is a foster and involved in our rescue in other aspects, I dont feel she is more concerned about the paperwork than the puppy. When someone looks to adopt from a rescue they look at all the requirements and agree to adhere to all of them. If a rescue agrees to bend the rules when an adopter states they are in the process of getting something done like a fence and has passed all the other things with flying colors, you may tend to say ok. But then find lies coming out, it makes you wonder what other things they lied to you about. 
The biggest thing is the language of the contract and the laws in your state on how it can be handled from here. I pray that you can get the dog back because I dont think they should have that dog. That is my opinion.

I can tell you on instance in my experience. We had a potential adopter wanting to adopt one of my foster puppies. He passed from the vets interview, two people in the rescue knew him thru the wife's work. He volunteered at the local shelter where they lived, One person in the rescue said the area he lived was really nice area. So I called to make an appt to do a meet and greet. We were talking and I explained this was a puppy still and not potty trained yet and what kind of arrangements was he going to make for his training (dog walker, coming home). He said "oh planning on using potty pads." I told him that wasnt really a good idea because he was already 4 months old and it would be too messy and would be hard to break him of using them. He said they lived in an apartment and planned on moving to a house in a couple of months. I was like WHAT THE HECK. We dont adopt to people in apartments unless there approval from the apartment complex and several other things. And they knew they couldnt do all that since they were moving soon. So we went back and looked at the application. The way the apartments are numbered it was like 101 Jones Ave 102 Jones Ave, so if you werent familiar with the area wouldnt know it was an apartment. So I would not have known until I showed up at his home (several hours from me and then would not have been a happy camper.) So that was one thing we tell all potential adopters now. Once we explained everything to him, he understood since he worked with the animal shelter and has since adopted from us when they moved into a house.


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

No matter how sad it makes you to have to re-rescue always remember you're doing it for the dog. If they had simply followed the criteria set forth then it wouldn't be a problem. The safety and well being of the dog always comes first. Sometimes an adoption can fall through simply because of "a bad feeling" and that's OK. We oft times get in a rush thinking we're doing what's best when in fact it's better to make sure all the i's or dotted and t's are crossed.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

If it wasn't specified in the contract the fence being done by a certain date, then it might be hard to justify taking the dog back, if everything else checks out. Live and learn, next time put it in writing that it will be completed by a certain date - then you have it in writing. 

If the application doesn't have questions that give you a good idea of what kind of home they would provide, then include some, that should cut down on your time looking through them. Some common red flags are things like where will the dog live, how will the dog get exercise, and where they plan to get dog food. If they say the dog will sleep in the garage, get to run loose on the farm all day and they'll get food at the grocery store then chances are you have a poor owner... also asking what's happened to the last three or four dogs (with space to include that) helps - if the dogs have 'run off' then yeah, next!


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## Rhapsody in Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

BeauShel said:


> As someone that is a foster and involved in our rescue in other aspects, I dont feel she is more concerned about the paperwork than the puppy.
> 
> 
> I don't either. My statement was "I would like to see your energy re-directed towards a solution - not enforcement of a "contract" that you probably cannot enforce.
> ...


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

The rescue adopted the dog to these people in 'good faith'. They then find out that this family lied before (by omitting the fact that they did not have a fence- even after being told it was mandatory) and after the adoption took place (saying that the permit was delayed) shouldn't this make the adoption void??? The rescue has every right and should re-rescue the dog -- the applicants were told at least twice that the fence was mandatory for them to keep the dog. Mandatory = must have!


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## LincolnsMom (Sep 28, 2010)

OP I would suggest an update; many are very invested in this I believe. It's good learning tool too


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

If the dog is thriving, then I would not make a big deal of it- but I never require a fence except in the most extreme cases. More often, I require LEASHED walks for dogs that are notorious fence jumpers and diggers, and actually seek apartment dwellers for those dogs. I'm not sure what the details are with this dog, but if the dog is doing well, I'd never take it away from its family.


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## naturewalk (Dec 24, 2010)

Charliethree said:


> The rescue adopted the dog to these people in 'good faith'. They then find out that this family lied before (by omitting the fact that they did not have a fence- even after being told it was mandatory) and after the adoption took place (saying that the permit was delayed) shouldn't this make the adoption void??? The rescue has every right and should re-rescue the dog -- the applicants were told at least twice that the fence was mandatory for them to keep the dog. Mandatory = must have!


A few things - 

First, I contacted a lawyer and oral agreements are BINDING. At least in our area. The key is to have a witness, and I have that. That might be useful for everyone to file away for future adoptions. Even if something is done on a handshake, they must comply. Always bring a witness with you when you do a home visit and adopt the dog.

Having it in writing in always helpful, (I leaned lessons here) but people can sign off in writing on an agreement and then break it... we can't detectives monitoring what goes on behind closed doors. We have to trust them. So the bottom line is that we have to have faith that people will comply.

When you rescue and foster a dog, you know that dog's particular traits and special needs. If the dog is terrified of cats (it happens), the adopters can't turn around and bring home a cat. Some dogs have separation anxiety, so we ask that it not be left alone for 8 hours. Some rescues ask that a dog be the only dog in the household, etc etc.

If the people applying don't like these requirements, _then they can very simply go to another rescue or shelter,_ or wait for a different dog that better matches their life.

If you apply for a job that requires a college degree, and you lie and say you have one... well, most jobs do not ask to see the diploma. But if they find out later you never completed a degree, you can be fired. You can't say, "I decided I am qualified regardless of a degree and eventually I will get one anyway." Lying during job applications is grounds for dismissal, _for a reason_.

I had several applicants who said they planned to build a fence later, in the summer or spring, and they were turned down. 

Faith, trust, and honesty are the key words. I am equally alarmed by the lying as by the fact that the puppy has no fenced in yard and the fence issue is now such a huge mess. She could have just been honest and then I could have matched her with a different dog.

I can never know what goes on inside someone's head, but I believe she most likely lied precisely because she knew the fence was the dealmaker/breaker, and she would not get the dog otherwise.

The deception, especially the frequency of it, upsets me, and is enough reason to demand return of the dog. Of course I don't want to take a dog from a family if not necessary, nor do I relish the potential stress for myself.

It's about the welfare of the dog, but also trust and faith in the adoptive family.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Can you talk to the adopters and tell them they have to have the fence installed by a set date or they will have to return the puppy? Five days should be adequate time, unless you feel they are no longer even trustworthy to have the puppy with a fence in place.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Maybe they had all the intention of putting up a fence, and then went into sticker shock.

I priced out fencing my previous yard a about 10 years ago. My backyard was only 1/8 of an acre. I had three companies out to price it out, and it was going to cost between 5 & 10K - and I would have to wait 3 months or more to have it installed because of the demand. I was in such shock! My yard was so tiny.

Maybe you can work with her, and find out what happened ( I am giving her the benefit of the doubt ). Maybe suggest a cheaper alternative ( Invisible fence, a huge pen, or do it yourself fences from a farm store ).


Also, permit applications can sit at the office for sometimes a couple weeks before the town actually does anything about them. My husband is a contractor, and sometimes he has to really push to get those permits moving, it all depends on the town.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

naturewalk said:


> A few things -
> 
> First, I contacted a lawyer and oral agreements are BINDING. At least in our area. The key is to have a witness, and I have that. That might be useful for everyone to file away for future adoptions. Even if something is done on a handshake, they must comply. Always bring a witness with you when you do a home visit and adopt the dog.


Yes, oral agreements are binding. The problem is enforcing them. Even if you go to court, it's very likely that you will only win monetary value of the dog and not get the dog back. I hope everything works out for you and the dog.


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## Ranger (Nov 11, 2009)

What a hard situation. And people wonder why rescues have rules and regulation...it's all for the benefit of the dogs!

It really makes me grateful that I got Ranger when I did. I had just moved into a basement suite, had permission from the landlord, and then backed my truck into the fence a day before I went for my adoption interview to meet Ranger. I "bumped" into the fence hard enough to knock down two sections and didn't have time to get it fixed before the interview. When asked about the fence, I guess I could have lied...but I told the truth, said we were going to fix it the next day (Saturday) and I was still able to get Ranger. THANK GOD. I kept Ranger on leash for all potty breaks his first day home and then fixed it the next day. 

But I definitely understand that it's not the norm...and now after reading all these stories about people lying to the rescues and why the rescues don't always adopt out dogs (not that I blame them), I'm even more grateful my busted fence wasn't an issue when it came to adopt Ranger.


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## naturewalk (Dec 24, 2010)

*stunning update*

We have the puppy back, I am stunned to report.

Literally the day after I accepted that I would probably NOT be able get the dog back, so I'd have to endure a tedious series of endless follow ups with the adopters... the adopters emailed me to say they had a sudden, huge change in their family routine, no time to walk her, and asked if we would take her back. (!) And we said yes. (Of course we had said in the contract that we'll always accept the dog back, even 10 years later.) I was lucky in this case.

We don't know what to make of this weird twist; maybe it was crazy but true. Maybe it was another invention so they could escape building a fence that they never intended to build, or suddenly could not afford? Who knows.

I know these were decent people, and the bottom line is that if they want another puppy, there are plenty out there.

I'm thankful to this forum because it gave me some support, helped me figure out how to manage this & I learned a lot from your advice.

I don't know if my experience will be helpful or not, but I contacted a few lawyers who volunteer for animal welfare & this is some of what I did and learned:

1) Lawyer #1 said that if it came to a court case, it was unlikely, unless abuse, that the court would take a dog away from a family, BUT she could still write a stern legal letter asking for the dog to be returned due to violation of contract unless it was fulfilled in x number of days. That was one approach, but it sounded stressful & too antagonistic right now, given that the court most likely would never rule in our favor anyway.

2) The lawyer #2 was more strategic and cautious, and said it would not be helpful to be adversarial right now, and I liked this advice. She carefully listened to my story and asked thoughtful questions, such as "do you like the family, aside from the fence issue?" Lying aside, I think they were good people who just perhaps did not manage this well or did not understand that we really meant it when we said we would be following up.

So she advised me to stay friendly for now and send an email to request the permit and fencing documents at their earliest convenience, and she said, "If they don't have the docs, we'll find out soon enough. You need these docs for your records anyway. THEN, we'll take the next step, depending on what they show you."

I thought 'ok, good advice!' Her approach made my anxiety attacks go down a few notches. So I emailed the adopters in a business friendly way a request for the permit application and copy of the fencing deposit that the adopter claimed she had. Anyway, maybe they did have them. Or maybe this would push the fence to be built as promised.

The adopter quickly replied that she would mail them to me later, after the holidays but added a long, cranky passage saying that my follow ups were 'borderline harassment,' (which of course is ridiculous) and why was I 'so obsessed' with a fence 'in this cold weather' and who would want a dog outside in a yard in this snow (a nonsensical comment), blah blah blah. I realized that she was just defensive.

I took another deep breath and put a call in to this great lawyer for how to word my 'friendly' reply. 

Then, before my lawyer could even call me back, I woke up the next morning to an email from the adopter. She asked if we would still take the dog back now and would I possibly also refund her adoption fee? 

I was shocked but of course said yes and yes.

We quickly picked the puppy up, who was now lanky and skinny and had shed almost all of her thick, almost puffy, orange-tan coat and had in place a thin layer like a newborn. She almost looked shaven. The husband cheerfully boasted about how well she now walks on a leash WITH A CHOKE COLLAR - another thing I will write in as forbidden on future contracts, though enforcing that would be tough.

Oh, and 3 other tips, (I know some of you may know this already):

1. Always make the home visit separate from the adoption day, no matter how much the applicants pressure or plead or even if they seem so super nice that you think you can bend the rule - don't. You need the breathing room to sleep on a decision, and so might they. 

2. Discuss with them what happens if agreements are broken, don't just write it. Explain in a friendly way WHY each agreement is in place. This will also give them a chance to think hard about whether they will follow through & ask questions if they have them.

3. You can't read minds, but just be prepared for anything. A certain percentage of people will always renege on contracts. "Word of honor" doesn't mean much in this country. 

Anyway, and that concludes this messy affair.


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## Bender (Dec 30, 2008)

Well glad she's safe, sounds a bit odd, but if they're willing to give the dog up it saves you some hassles. I mean really, how hard is it to put up a temp fence if that's what it takes to keep the dog?


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Good for you! Happy to hear the puppy was returned. 

I guess another lesson is to trust your instincts. You felt something wasn't right.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I am so thankful that you got the puppy back. And hopefully he wont have any lasting impressions from the choke collar or any bad treatment if there was any. Good luck in getting him a new loving home. Hopefully all people will learn alittle something from this. When you feel something is wrong it usually is. Just because there isnt a fence doesnt mean you should overlook the procedures if you have them in place. Give that puppy a big kiss.


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## naturewalk (Dec 24, 2010)

cubbysan said:


> Good for you!
> I guess another lesson is to trust your instincts. You felt something wasn't right.





BeauShel said:


> When you feel something is wrong it usually is.


*So true!!!!*


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## GinnyinPA (Oct 31, 2010)

I imagine what happened is what Cubbysan said - they intended to get a fence, then found out how much it would cost. They thought they could get by without it, but when you wouldn't let it go, they decided that it wasn't worth the hassle or the expense. I imagine they'll go to the local shelter and find another dog whose guardian isn't as careful.


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