# Spaying?



## BaileyzMom (Nov 26, 2015)

Like yourself, I was not satisfied with the argument for either side (before or after 1st heat). I had four different vets tell me "for years we have recommended spaying before the first heat, but you should know some new research is starting to recommend you wait for 1 heat cycle in large breed dogs." Then 1 vet recommended we wait (he also took the articles he read at face value), the other 3 weren't quite convinced yet that the research was convincing enough to wait after weighing the options. So our decision was to spay right before 6 months. It felt right to us and like Dory, Bailey's doggie daycare won't let her come past 6 months if she isn't spayed. It's really whatever you are comfortable with. 

I have only 1 piece of advice - sedative. LOL Bailey was swinging from chandeliers we don't even have.... you can read some of my threads to see her fiasco.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

With females the decision is a lot tougher. With males it's pretty cut and dry and easy to wait until 2 or not at all. With females the cancer rate actually increases if you wait until after a year. But by waiting as long as possible your helping to make sure they are grown as much as possible. The incidents of ACL tears in Goldens is actually higher if done early. You have to weigh everything and do what is best for your family. Remembering a heat cycle means 3 weeks of being very careful. Are you willing to take the precautions.

We weighed our options and felt it was best for us to spay Chloe at six months. It's a lot more dificult decision with a female because of the heat cycle. If you search at the top I am sure you can find articles and weigh the pros and cons. She will defintly have to be spayed to go to daycare. If there is a intact male that comes frequent that is another reason to do it. Or you will just have to say those few weeks no friends can come over.


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

We have had two female Goldens. Both were spayed at about 6 months. Both lived long, healthy lives. Both passed at about 14 years of age.


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

Thanks. Feedback is super helpful. I think we will keep her appointment. Thanks again.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Tonight we were at my sisters. Her brother in law brought their 4 month old lab. Can you believe they already spayed her. I think that is way to young and not necessary that young. I think spaying Chloe was one of the hardest decisions we made about her. Jake had no joint problems from his neuter at six months. My mom says if we would of gotten a male we would of waited until 2. With females the research seems to be a little different. Bottom line your pup will have a happy good long life most likely no matter the decision.


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## JillD (Apr 14, 2016)

Our vet is saying November to spay Gracie. That will make her 8 months old. Not too sure I want to wait that long. Not sure if this is because of her UTI issues?


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## Rilelen (Jan 11, 2015)

The data on female Goldens is so mixed. It's really a tough call and I'm not certain, based on what we know currently, that there's a "right" decision. The two big things to consider are the risk of cancer and the risk of joint disorders. For boys, as some people have mentioned, it seems pretty clear - there's are lots of pros to waiting until they're 2 or so. 

Two recent papers:

Long-term effects of neutering dogs: Comparison of labrador retrievers with golden retrievers

Quick take-away - spaying female goldens before 6 months of age made joint disorders much more likely; on the other hand, spaying females increases cancer rates 3 to 4 times that seen in intact females

Neutering Dogs: Effects on Joint Disorders and Cancers in Golden Retrievers

Quick take: For females, the timing of neutering is tricky because early neutering significantly increases the likelihood of joint disorders, but late neutering increases the rates of two kinds of cancers (hemangiosarcoma & mast cell tumor). 

We decided to wait to spay Abby until after her first heat cycle, in part because we were planning to do agility with her and really wanted to be sure that her joints and skeletal system would be as developed as possible. It worked out that her first heat was at 11 months; waiting three months put her at 14 months when she was spayed, and allowed her growth plates to close before her ovaries were removed. 

But I think at this point it's just a really hard call - hopefully new data will come in that will help make this decision easier and make the tradeoffs clearer.


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

My girl is 15 mos & in her 2nd (and final) heat, plan is to wait 3 mos & then spay. Looking at the literature & abiding by the contract I signed w/ my breeder, I have had no problem waiting to spay. My vet on the other hand was ready to put her on the surgery schedule at 5 mos. The only downside for waiting is losing out on valuable training time (no swimming w/ field work) and trying to predict what shows (obedience/rally) she can enter as a bitch in heat is not permitted in the ring.


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

Cpc1972 said:


> Tonight we were at my sisters. Her brother in law brought their 4 month old lab. Can you believe they already spayed her. I think that is way to young and not necessary that young. I think spaying Chloe was one of the hardest decisions we made about her. Jake had no joint problems from his neuter at six months. My mom says if we would of gotten a male we would of waited until 2. With females the research seems to be a little different. Bottom line your pup will have a happy good long life most likely no matter the decision.


The SPCA and other organizations spay much earlier than that. My cousins dog was spayed before she adopted him at 12 weeks.


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

JillD said:


> Our vet is saying November to spay Gracie. That will make her 8 months old. Not too sure I want to wait that long. Not sure if this is because of her UTI issues?


Maybe? I know Bayleigh was scheduled to be spayed at 8 months, too, and she went into heat a week before her appointment. Which I'm assuming is early.


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## mhampton (Sep 23, 2015)

We decided to wait to spay Morgan. She is in the midst of her first heat as we speak. She is 8 months old and it really has been easy. She seems to clean up after herself with little spotting in the house. So she will be spayed 3 months from now.
Good luck with your decision.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

Kalhayd said:


> The SPCA and other organizations spay much earlier than that. My cousins dog was spayed before she adopted him at 12 weeks.


They spay at shelters here also very young. Like at 8 weeks before adoption. Their lab is full blooded and from a breeder that's why it was surprising their vet would do it.


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## Rilelen (Jan 11, 2015)

I think the philosophy with SPCA and similar organizations is to be absolutely sure that the pets they adopt out do not become part of the pet overpopulation problem. On a societal level, this is probably a good thing - if all dog and cat owners were responsible, we wouldn't need organizations like the SPCA nearly as badly as we do. But they aren't, and we do, and early spay-neuter programs keep more unwanted puppies and kittens from being born.

I think it's a whole different kettle of fish when you're talking about responsible educated owners making a decision that is best for the health of their own individual dog (and not solving the unwanted dog overpopulation crisis!) - we're all here posting on an online message board about our very much wanted and cherished goldens, many of whom we've gone to great lengths and research to get in the first place. By definition, most of us are far from the average pet owner, simply because we're here talking about these issues.


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

Rilelen said:


> I think the philosophy with SPCA and similar organizations is to be absolutely sure that the pets they adopt out do not become part of the pet overpopulation problem. On a societal level, this is probably a good thing - if all dog and cat owners were responsible, we wouldn't need organizations like the SPCA nearly as badly as we do. But they aren't, and we do, and early spay-neuter programs keep more unwanted puppies and kittens from being born.
> 
> I think it's a whole different kettle of fish when you're talking about responsible educated owners making a decision that is best for the health of their own individual dog (and not solving the unwanted dog overpopulation crisis!) - we're all here posting on an online message board about our very much wanted and cherished goldens, many of whom we've gone to great lengths and research to get in the first place. By definition, most of us are far from the average pet owner, simply because we're here talking about these issues.


I agree. I wasn't implying that their early spay program should be the norm for responsible pet owners. 

Still trying to make the best decision for our sweet girl.


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## aesthetic (Apr 23, 2015)

I think it really depends on you. Personally, I would choose to wait to spay because to me, it's extremely important for my dog to keep his hormones in order to grow and mature the way he's supposed to. Not to say that isn't a priority for you, but you may have things to think about that I don't have to. I don't have to think about putting Kaizer in daycare because both my parents work from home. If daycare is the only factor to spay early, would your daycare accept her if she had an ovary sparing spay? She wouldn't have a uterus, so she wouldn't be able to reproduce or go in heat, but she'd keep her hormones. It's not something I know a lot about, so you'd have to do some more research on it. There's a group on Facebook who are very educated on alternate spays and could help you if you're interested.

For what it's worth, if Kaizer wasn't cryptorchid, I wouldn't neuter him at all. But because he is, he's getting neutered between 18-24 month.


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

aesthetic said:


> I think it really depends on you. Personally, I would choose to wait to spay because to me, it's extremely important for my dog to keep his hormones in order to grow and mature the way he's supposed to. Not to say that isn't a priority for you, but you may have things to think about that I don't have to. I don't have to think about putting Kaizer in daycare because both my parents work from home. If daycare is the only factor to spay early, would your daycare accept her if she had an ovary sparing spay? She wouldn't have a uterus, so she wouldn't be able to reproduce or go in heat, but she'd keep her hormones. It's not something I know a lot about, so you'd have to do some more research on it. There's a group on Facebook who are very educated on alternate spays and could help you if you're interested.
> 
> For what it's worth, if Kaizer wasn't cryptorchid, I wouldn't neuter him at all. But because he is, he's getting neutered between 18-24 month.


I could inquire about that for sure. I'm not against waiting, I'm just torn on studies to show which is really the best method. I know our vet(whom I love!) is very pro early spay(6-months), but I'm sure she'd respect our decision should the waiting truly benefit Dory.


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## StephA (Jun 22, 2016)

Its such a difficult decision and I think all you can do is gather as much information for both arguments and make an informed decision based on your own gut feeling.


We have a very good vet, who spent probably 30 minutes with us, giving us lots of information without trying to influence us and we have decided to wait until after Maple's first season.


The main factor in that decision for us is the likelihood of urinary incontinence. Evidence seems to suggest that the likelihood of incontinence after having a bitch spayed is just under 10% if spayed before the first season - this likelihood halves if spayed after the first season. By all accounts, this is a particular problem with Goldens as they have a short urinary tract.
The cancer risk did cause us some heart ache, but our vet suggested that after the first season, the risk is actually around an extra 1%. But that risk dramatically increases exponentially for every subsequent season, so we won't wait any longer than 3 months after 1st season.


Good luck in making the right decision for you - its so difficult!


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## Gleepers (Apr 20, 2016)

We are going for after the first heat. I talked with our Breeder about the whole heat thing quite a bit as I've never done it before. Apparently his dogs tend to have their first right around that 6 mo mark. In which case we may wait until around a year, (or we may not) Penny is a VERY VERY active little dog, and her desire to run, climb and jump is HUGE. So anything we can do to help her little joints survive her temperament I think will be a good thing.
Looks like as far as the Cancer risk, you are darned if you do and darned if you don't.


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## GoldenFocus (Feb 28, 2016)

Well in my situation the SPCA spayed Roxy at 3 months and she is now 2 years old. My Sonja will be spayed after a year old and most likely one heat cycle at the earliest. My past experience includes females that have had a litter and those that were spayed early and honestly they all lived to the "older" range for each breed.


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## ArchersMom (May 22, 2013)

Just out of curiosity, did your vet explain why they wanted to spay at 6 months? Did they give you any medical reasons for performing surgery so early or did they just suggest it? I wish more vets would explain the pros and cons to pet owners and trust the owner to make the decision that's best for their situation. If they can't give a definitive reason for early spay and they only recommend it because they don't want to see more unwanted litters, I think the owner needs to decide whether they can be responsible and prevent it themselves. If the owner can't watch the dog 100% when outside and keep them safe from unwanted pregnancy, then go ahead and get them spayed early. Whatever it takes to end overpopulation. But I don't think it's necessary for every pet if there really isn't proof that it's healthier for the dog.


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## Gleepers (Apr 20, 2016)

Archersmom, funny you mention that. Our vet is 100% against delaying the spay. They have repeatedly pressed me to get Penny spayed right at 6 mo. They never once mentioned anything about any benefit about waiting and one of them is a life long Golden owner.

(We have 4 vets in the office, the 2 older guys are the ones I've seen with Penny. They are much easier to get an appointment with so I don't mind for basic well visits, but if I have any concerns what so ever I always request one of the younger guys)


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## ceegee (Mar 26, 2015)

For my first golden, I wasn't allowed to spay her before 1.5 years of age (it was in my contract). This was many years ago, at a time when early spay was the norm. Today, for a dog that will be doing sports (mine does agility), the norm is to delay spaying and neutering for at least two years. My current pup is a male and if he's neutered at all, it won't be for at least a couple of years. If all goes well we intend to leave him intact.

Here's an interesting article by a respected author on the impacts of early spay/neuter.

EARLY SPAY-NEUTER IN THE CANINE ATHLETE, by Chris Zink, DVM, PHd


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

Please watch this video. This vet used to push early spay and neuter, then she learned better. She actually apologized and took blame for all her patients who had issues such as Cushings, Thyroid etc that could have been brought on by early spay and neuter.


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## Altairss (Sep 7, 2012)

I waited for at least one heat or full maturity in all my females. I did this for several reasons I wanted their bodies to have the benefit of hormones to reach full maturity and growth plates to close as I do hiking, agility and the like with my dogs. Its basically puberty and I know my body made lots of changes. I never had any of them have ACL tears or muscle or joint problems and all were extremely athletic well into their teens.. Some concerns for mammary cancer does exists but the only female I had that got mammary cancer was spayed very early about 5 months she was a rescue. My vet then told me that while it lowers the risk they can still get it with early spay. Tink had a lot of problems with UTI's and waiting thru the heats stopped it and she hasn't had one in three years. The local spay and neuter clinics now both recommend waiting till large breeds are at least 7-8 months before spay or neuter.

For me it was the better choice and I have seen more good from the waiting and really three weeks is not that bad if your responsible and take care. But do what is right for you only you can really decide what you feel comfortable with.


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

When do they typically have their first heat? I'm not against waiting- I just want to ensure its the best option for her. I'm just confused, I guess!


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

ArchersMom said:


> Just out of curiosity, did your vet explain why they wanted to spay at 6 months? Did they give you any medical reasons for performing surgery so early or did they just suggest it? I wish more vets would explain the pros and cons to pet owners and trust the owner to make the decision that's best for their situation. If they can't give a definitive reason for early spay and they only recommend it because they don't want to see more unwanted litters, I think the owner needs to decide whether they can be responsible and prevent it themselves. If the owner can't watch the dog 100% when outside and keep them safe from unwanted pregnancy, then go ahead and get them spayed early. Whatever it takes to end overpopulation. But I don't think it's necessary for every pet if there really isn't proof that it's healthier for the dog.


No, and pre- this forum I wouldn't even question. Naive, I know. I'll inquire and see what our best options are. We're not opposed to utilizing our dog walker until she's spayed.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

Kalhayd said:


> When do they typically have their first heat? I'm not against waiting- I just want to ensure its the best option for her. I'm just confused, I guess!


There is no such thing as typical. =Their first heat can happen from six months of age to two years old. You won't know "when" until it happens.


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## Cpc1972 (Feb 23, 2015)

It is a very good idea to talk to your vet. When my mom talked to the vet about Chloe she was very open minded. She told us to read all we could and make the decision that was right for us. Our vet has a male golden. She waited and neutered him at 10 months. But our vet didn't push us at all on what to do.


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## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

What I have been told multiple times is that waiting does increase mammary cancer - it does double it, but the risk is still less than 1 percent. If your dog is going to get any kind of cancer, this is the kind to get because it can be found with monthly checks by the owner, just like you check your own, and when caught can easily be removed most of the time.

My breeder's dog was just diagnosed with mammary cancer last week, it was removed, and they are now hoping for the best - BUT she just turned 13. Her brother was just put down for testicular cancer a couple months ago, but he was just shy of 13. When they get to be that age, it is old age cancer.

Most vets push the early spay because of population control, not because of the health. 

First season can happen anywhere between 6 months to 14 months - I think average is around 8 months. Usually they go into season at the same age as their mother did. Other dogs in season, can trigger your dog going into season.

I was horrified waiting for my Sailor to go into her first - it was nothing what I thought it would be. She keeps herself very clean, I do not even use a diaper. We do not have strange dogs coming up to the door. I do not bring her in public, but I still bring her to class.


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## Rilelen (Jan 11, 2015)

If you know when her female relatives went into heat for the first time, it can help predict her age. When I asked Abby's breeder, she said "I would guess around 11-12 months. Garland was at 13 months, her mother Chatter was at 12 months and her mother Shine was at 10 months."

Abby came into heat just shy of 11 months, at the exact same time as one of her littermates (Daphne) and just a little before (I think) one of her other littermates, Emma Rose here on this board.


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## JillD (Apr 14, 2016)

Altairss said:


> I waited for at least one heat or full maturity in all my females. I did this for several reasons I wanted their bodies to have the benefit of hormones to reach full maturity and growth plates to close as I do hiking, agility and the like with my dogs. Its basically puberty and I know my body made lots of changes. I never had any of them have ACL tears or muscle or joint problems and all were extremely athletic well into their teens.. Some concerns for mammary cancer does exists but the only female I had that got mammary cancer was spayed very early about 5 months she was a rescue. My vet then told me that while it lowers the risk they can still get it with early spay. Tink had a lot of problems with UTI's and waiting thru the heats stopped it and she hasn't had one in three years. The local spay and neuter clinics now both recommend waiting till large breeds are at least 7-8 months before spay or neuter.
> 
> 
> 
> For me it was the better choice and I have seen more good from the waiting and really three weeks is not that bad if your responsible and take care. But do what is right for you only you can really decide what you feel comfortable with.



My 16 week old golden girl, Gracie, is on her fourth round of antibiotics for an e-coli UTI infection that she had when we brought her home. It's for this reason I am really contemplating letting her go through her first heat. Our vet has her scheduled for 8 months, but I have read before the benefits of going through a heat cycle in regards to ending chronic uti's.


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## smp (Apr 27, 2016)

With our first, we were clueless and did what the vet recommended. I believe she was 4 months old. She had an ACL tear around 8 yrs old and died of hemangiosarcoma at 10, so...who knows. With our new pup, I think we'll wait until first heat to try to minimize the joint risk as we like being active with our dogs.


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## Kalhayd (May 4, 2016)

Is it only ONE heat you have to go through to reduce these risk? Or the more the better?


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## Wicky (Aug 27, 2015)

Thanks for starting this thread it's been an interesting read. I find it so hard to make a decision! I read everything feel like going one way then something pushes me the other!
My vet supported waiting until after Sonas first heat due to the risk of incontinence in large breed dogs. So between that and my research it was easy to decide to get her spayed after her first season .... Then she had her first season at barley 7 months and I felt 12 months was still a bit young and held off. Her dam comes in every 9/10 months according to her breeder so I was hoping for that but here we are at nearly 16 months old and Sona is in heat. So I'm back in decision making mode now and of course everyone has a different position. Her breeder would not get her spayed - although very much believes it's up to me, feels she will lose her good condition, age quickly, health implication but then also agrees Pyometra is a real issues. Her trainer thinks I should get her spayed due to the potential of passing on a hip issues - I have no intention of Sona passing on ANY trait and although I'm careful and she is carefully monitored 'accidents' can happen. Then another breeder suggested that if I was set on spaying to wait until she was over 2 years to ensure full maturity but I worry about the research showing the increase in certain cancers with each season. So you may have picked up I'm getting myself in knots over this!!!!!!
I think it is likely that I will spay her before next season - she will be 18 months. However I do believe there is not a right answer. At this stage, after months of reading and talking to people, I bet I could make a convincing argument for each position!!!! So, for my own peace of mind, I think I just have to accept that whatever decision I make IS the right decision.


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