# Please stop him tugging my things



## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

We teach tug along with random training through out the day. It comes hand in hand with "take" or "drop" or "give" or "bring it" and we make the puppies sit politely. This is a work in progress and a 9 week old isn't going to understand the rules. We use treats to help train the rules. Tug is so fun! But waving a treat to lure the puppy into a sit, and 95% of the time they drop the toy if you are holding on it. So then you can pair an automatic drop it by teaching the dog to sit during the game. I also don't really do "wins" or "losses" cause the tugging is just the intermission between rounds of fetch. And if you teach them "all done" means training or whatever is over, it'll be helpful with teaching them when to keep going and when it's time to change gears. My girl is 6 months old and she can get too excited during in tug (but she goes mouthy when she is overaroused and just drops the toy and goes straight for the arms and hands and fingers, etc), so we've started doing chew toy cuddles. Stop the game of tug, scoop up the puppy and a bone, settle puppy on lap or near me on the sofa, give chew toy, and allow both of us to sky down from the game. 

The bringing things is a different story. My kitten accidently knocked the bitter apple spray off the table and Molly BROUGHT it to me. Like the irony of that being in her mouth had me rolling. But then two hours later she took my shoe out of the shoe organizer and brought it to me too. It's a retriever thing. I just say "Oh thank you! You're such a good retriever" and treat, remove the object and go about my day. I'd much rather she BRING me shenanigans than to have to chase her or god forbid her hide with it and me not even know she's up to nonsense. 

Hang in there and do your best to be consistent. The training will pay off. It's just a huge adjustment in the beginning as you both learn how to communicate with each other and adjust to realistic expectations.


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## Howler (Feb 4, 2021)

Brave said:


> waving a treat to lure the puppy into a sit, and 95% of the time they drop the toy


No chance of luring him away with a treat. Come close when he is thrashing his toy and 95% of the time he will drop the toy and grab your shirt, or your sock, and if you are lucky he will just go rabid with the cloth..

Tug is the only thing that seems to trigger his "zooms" and these last 12 hours! It's a really dangerous game. I have open wounds on almost every knuckle from when I have needed to pluck him from my legs. I also ended up in a predicament where my glasses fell off while trying to open a door with him in my arms; as my eyesight is poor I needed to bring myself to floor level in order to search for my spectacles using my hands, and I have discovered it is surprisingly scary to be temporarily disabled while a hyperactive dog charges at you with the intend of throwing you (maybe your neck?) around like a rag doll.

I have a puppy trainer. I have tried putting him outside to calm down (the puppy, not the trainer). He has discovered there is a connection between tugging me and being put out, but this is not bothering him - it's either part of his game, or it is his signal to potty (he is house trained). I have tried standing straight and crossing my arms but by that stage he is growling and my limp clothes are sufficiently entertaining.

Poor Murphy was supposed to be our therapy dog. He is ultra-cute when he is calm, playing fetch has no ill effects, he recalls very well, loves being touched all over, and he is now amongst the most polite of dogs while we prepare his food (I count that as a win). He follows many commands for a 9 week pup including stand, sit, walk (at my side with or without a leash - I count that as a win too), ... .; but mere seconds of tug unleashes an entirely _different_ animal!

His trainer recommends we continue with tug, but my wife is now actually depressed about the change it triggers in our ball of fluff puppy - she is currently avoiding us both because she cannot deal with the effects of a wolf-summoning "game" and that is heartbreaking. Meanwhile my hands sting continuously from the artefacts created by sharp puppy teeth.

I was able to type all of this because he is currently innocently sleeping on my feet. I need help in the form of a technique that will bring him under full control while he is still small.

My assumption is that he needs more exercise, but his joints are only 9 weeks old and he is not yet vaccinated. It may be a moot point but I do not think he is actually biting. Sometimes he painfully grabs my hand, enough to cause teeth marks, but he has so far always released without drawing blood - the actually bloody wounds I carry stem from his head thrashing.


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## 3goldens2keep (Feb 13, 2019)

Keep working on training, daily! He sounds like he is named appropriately, but in time he will turn out to be a really good dog, if you train him well. I would suggest some leather gloves, when he nips and you don't pull back, it will change the rules...it might help! Good Luck


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## Howler (Feb 4, 2021)

3goldens2keep said:


> I would suggest some leather gloves


Good idea, thanks.



3goldens2keep said:


> Good Luck


I don't need luck, I need help!

In the closing hours of today, after putting Murphy to bed and taking a shower, I discovered Murphy outside my room despite the fact that this meant he somehow passed my 99cm high BabyDan stair barrier. Is this puppy at all natural? 

(it appears he somehow opened it)


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## CAROLINA MOM (May 12, 2009)

Do you have a crate? 
Whenever you can't watch him such as when you want to take a shower or are going to be away from home, crating him would keep him confined and safe.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

He's a baby trying to figure out his world. There are sport trainers who would kill for the dog you describe! A dog that loves to tug is one that has a reinforcer other than food (this may eventually work in your favor). One thing that stood out to me is that it sounds like maybe you are giving him more freedom than a 9 week old should have. My puppies (up until age 4-6 months, or until I trust them not to get in trouble in the house if I'm not supervising 100% of the time) are in an ex-pen in the kitchen any time I am not directly interacting with them. If while I have them out to play or train my puppy gets ramped up or mouthy, then he is calmly returned to his pen. When he settles, he can come back out and we try again. Also, tug is only reinforcing if you tug back (assuming it's the tugging he enjoys and not just possession of the toy). If he wants to tug, then if he bites you, let go and end the game. Basic learning theory (negative punishment) = bad behavior makes a good thing go away. The idea is that you reduce his ability to engage in the behavior you don't like and reduce or eliminate any reinforcement associated with that behavior.

Above all, don't fuss too much about this behavior. Overall, he sounds like an awesome little pup and it sounds like you are doing a terrific job with his general training. As I said, he's a baby puppy trying to figure out his new world. There will be MANY challenges coming your way in the next couple of years (research "landshark phase" if you aren't already familiar with it!), but it's likely that with kind, consistent training, boundaries and a lot of patience, he will grow up to be an awesome pet.

Some resources for you:

Google "Dog Tug Garrett" for some articles and pod-casts on tugging by Susan Garrett. She is a sport dog trainer who uses tug a lot as a reinforcer but I believe she has quite a few articles about how to teach tug, teach the tug release, etc. She also has a ton of good stuff on puppies, crate training, etc.
Kidnapped From Planet Dog - Whole Dog Journal
It's a Puppy, Not a Problem
Life with Rune


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## Howler (Feb 4, 2021)

CAROLINA MOM said:


> Do you have a crate?
> Whenever you can't watch him such as when you want to take a shower or are going to be away from home, crating him would keep him confined and safe.


I have a 42" crate but Murphy is now accustomed to using that space for travel. I lift him in/out of the car, and he loads/unloads himself from the crate - its generally working and means we can all get going from inside our small garage (not enough space to open all car doors).

The whole of the downstairs of my house happens to be puppy proof, so I consider it confined and safe. The only thing he changed there was the houseplants because he was eating them.

On the shower/stair incident: I did not hear Murphy because I was in the shower, but apparently he cried and rattled the stair gate for ~15 minutes before overpowering the lock - its quite a complex mechanism so he must have been bending the whole metal frame. He was panting and thirsty when I discovered him on the wrong floor and had clearly exerted himself.

We are now working on a new command, "Bath", which is what we impose on him every time he walks into our bedroom. It is very tiring for us to keep washing and drying him, but he doesn't like it so hopefully he will learn to weigh up the pros/cons of trespassing. We are trying something similar with his biting/tugging, but he seems to be a slow learner on these fronts.


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## Howler (Feb 4, 2021)

pawsnpaca said:


> There are sport trainers who would kill for the dog you describe!


Interesting observation. He is actually descended from international and grand champions; probably not the right choice for a therapy dog 

If he's not going to grow less demanding then we are in trouble..


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

Howler said:


> If he's not going to grow less demanding then we are in trouble..


Don't despair! The forum is full of posts from folks who have dogs anywhere between puppies and two years old who were at their wits end with their dogs and most matured to be perfectly fine, loving pets. That said, if you can post your dog's registration number, one of our UK members might be able to see if he comes from high-drive lines that historically produce dogs that may need a "job" their whole lives. In the meantime, exercise, training, management and consistent boundaries will be your friends!


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## Howler (Feb 4, 2021)

pawsnpaca said:


> That said, if you can post your dog's registration number, one of our UK members might be able to see if he comes from high-drive lines that historically produce dogs that may need a "job" their whole lives.


I would prefer not to disclose details because I am ignorant of the security impacts, but please tell me more about this "job" thing.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

There is absolutely no "security" impact in sharing your dog's registration number, it's done here all the time. The only reason someone might not want to share it is if the breeder isn't reputable (e.g., didn't do the proper clearances on their breeding stock, is running a puppy mill, is a back yard breeder, has unethical business practices, etc.), in which case those will be called out in this public forum and may "get you in trouble" with your breeder (only you can decide whether you care). Another option would be to send it via private message to one of our UK members if someone wants to volunteer to check it out for you (American/AKC dogs can easily be checked by many of our members, but not all of us are familiar with equivalent databases in the UK). Then the discussion is only between you and that member. Totally up to you of course...

As far as needing a "job" - Goldens were originally bred to spend all day hunting with their owners, with corresponding levels of energy and stamina. Over the years, many breeders have focused more on breeding lower-key family pets. Breeders who focus on breeding dogs who excel at hunting, agility, competitive obedience, or other "jobs" tend to produce dogs who require more exercise and training than the average pet (or therapy) Golden typically requires. That said, it's not just reputable breeders of working dogs who produce dogs that would benefit from having a job. The dog in my Avatar came from a back yard breeder. He had an extended "land shark" phase and there was a period where he frustrated me enough that I was tempted to return him to his breeder. He grew up to be my "heart dog" and we had a very successful agility and rally career, but to his dying day the boy was _intense _and not a dog who would settle well in the house without a pretty significant dose of exercise.


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## Howler (Feb 4, 2021)

He is from a line of working dogs. My intention was always to give him plenty of exercise, but he is still too young to be fully vaccinated so he cannot yet go out, and I did not anticipate "tug" being his treat.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

There are tons of ways to exercise both his body and his mind even if he's not "out and about" yet. Basic manners training can do both for sure. Calling him back and forth between you and one or more family members would give him exercise and a foundation for a reliable come (keep him on a long line so he doesn't learn that come is an optional command). I'll give you some links to ideas, but there are likely many more online that can be found through a simple Google search.









5 Games for Puppies


5 games that will fix "puppy brain" and let you get some work done while your puppy naps!




susangarrettdogagility.com




Shaped by Dog with Susan Garrett (Susan Garrett podcasts on a wide variety of training topics)








Socializing Your Puppy During the COVID-19 Pandemic


It is crucial for puppies that are 8–14 weeks of age to have positive socializing experiences to help shape them into well-rounded, confident dogs. The social distancing required during the COVID-19 pandemic can make it more challenging to provide puppies with the pleasant encounters they need.




thebark.com












Dog Training During COVID-19


Stay up-to-date on Dane County Humane Society news, including information on events, stories about our animals and people, and important pet information.




www.giveshelter.org












Dog Training by Kikopup


Professional dog training videos created by world renowned trainer Emily Larlham. I'm not going to feed you want you want to hear to get more views. I am goi...




www.youtube.com


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

pawsnpaca said:


> One thing that stood out to me is that it sounds like maybe you are giving him more freedom than a 9 week old should have. My puppies (up until age 4-6 months, or until I trust them not to get in trouble in the house if I'm not supervising 100% of the time) are in an ex-pen in the kitchen any time I am not directly interacting with them. If while I have them out to play or train my puppy gets ramped up or mouthy, then he is calmly returned to his pen. When he settles, he can come back out and we try again.


I'm the same with my girls. Molly only had access to half the living room and the kitchen under supervision until this week when we opened the rest of the living room up (and we're only doing that cause she's almost 7 months old and hasn't had an accident is like 100 days so I think we're good on not having to scoop her 50 lb butt up and run for the door like we would have before she was potty trained). And if we're not watching her, she is in a crate. The only non-supervision time she gets is outside for the two minutes it takes me to find a jacket and put on shoes. 



Howler said:


> On the shower/stair incident: I did not hear Murphy because I was in the shower, but apparently he cried and rattled the stair gate for ~15 minutes before overpowering the lock - its quite a complex mechanism so he must have been bending the whole metal frame. He was panting and thirsty when I discovered him on the wrong floor and had clearly exerted himself.


FWIW - Molly accidently jimmied the lock on our baby gate. You have to lift the gate a little get the bar out of the 'lock' mechanism and it'll open. Well she was trying to crawl UNDER the gate and she accidently lifted the gate enough to push it open and then it was all "omg i'm free!" running around the bedroom. 


Howler said:


> We are now working on a new command, "Bath", which is what we impose on him every time he walks into our bedroom. It is very tiring for us to keep washing and drying him, but he doesn't like it so hopefully he will learn to weigh up the pros/cons of trespassing. We are trying something similar with his biting/tugging, but he seems to be a slow learner on these fronts.


IMO - that is setting yourself up for problems down the road. You don't want a dog that associates bath time (or any water time really) with punishment. Cause then you have a problem when you DO have to bathe the dog and you get those ridiculous videos of owners throwing their backs out dragging their dogs to the tub (or worse you create a fear reaction that a groomer has to deal with). 



Howler said:


> He is from a line of working dogs. My intention was always to give him plenty of exercise, but he is not yet vaccinated so cannot yet go out, and I did not anticipate "tug" being his treat.


A 9 week old doesn't understand the game or the rules. So the core of training at this age is teaching them rules by marking EXACTLY when they do the right thing and then rewarding them for it. Have you tried the food in the palm exercise? Puppy wants what is in the hand, but doesn't get it until they sit down and stop trying to get it. Then they are rewarded from your other hand. Eventually you build up to being able to have food in your open palm without the puppy lunging for it. This is impulse control. For me, this works hand-in-hand with other training. Sit. Down. Touch. Take it. Bring it. Drop/Give it. etc. If you find your puppy is lunging for your hand when you have food, get on the floor with them. Lana used to bite my hand in training when she went for the treat but my hand was too high so she was jumping for it and it was causing problems. As soon as I dropped my treat giving level, the biting went down dramatically. And don't be afraid to shove the treat in their mouth. Doing the "nothing in life is free" can be helpful for you too. The "NILIF" Dog Training Approach: Nothing In Life Is Free (dogmatters.com) 

As an aside, you learn as you go with puppies. What works for one might not work for another. We used a little spray bottle with water in it to correct the kitten. Thought it would work on Molly. Nope. it just ramps her up. Like a gremlin. BUT what we've been doing it pairing it with the phrase "Party Foul!" b/c it does get her to stop whatever she's doing and redirects her to me. Granted it's all teeth and trying to eat the bottle but baby steps. Now when she's misbehaving if I yell "party foul" she comes to me expecting the water bottle (which is rewarding to her). Helps when I need her to stop chewing her sister's ear off. And it's 100% ok to put the puppy in 'time out' so you both can cool off and regroup (which is why crates are recommended, but xpens are helpful too). Basically you want to be able to put the puppy behind a barrier and give them the space to relax. Goodness knows when Molly was younger (and even some days right now) Mama needs a break. It's as much for your benefit as it is for the puppy's benefit.


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## Howler (Feb 4, 2021)

Brave said:


> A 9 week old doesn't understand the game or the rules. So the core of training at this age is teaching them rules by marking EXACTLY when they do the right thing and then rewarding them for it. Have you tried the food in the palm exercise? Puppy wants what is in the hand, but doesn't get it until they sit down and stop trying to get it. Then they are rewarded from your other hand. Eventually you build up to being able to have food in your open palm without the puppy lunging for it.


That is all fine. He will complete his commands for a treat and he does not jump or bark. He is very well mannered at meal times and is able to sit and wait his turn. The problem is that, in his mind, tugging is more rewarding than any pea-sized treat. Problems start after meals when the value of pea-sized treats are further diminished.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Howler said:


> That is all fine. He will complete his commands for a treat and he does not jump or bark. He is very well mannered at meal times and is able to sit and wait his turn. The problem is that, in his mind, tugging is more rewarding than any pea-sized treat. Problems start after meals when the value of pea-sized treats are further diminished.


How much are you feeding at each meal? Cause we feed what I consider a full meal and I've never one had either of my goldens turn the nose up at a treat. So either they are eating too much dinner (unlikely) or you need to change your treat game. Even carrots get their full attention.


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## Howler (Feb 4, 2021)

Brave said:


> How much are you feeding at each meal? Cause we feed what I consider a full meal and I've never one had either of my goldens turn the nose up at a treat. So either they are eating too much dinner (unlikely) or you need to change your treat game. Even carrots get their full attention.


It's not that he dislikes any kind of food - he will follow any command for a blueberry. I have not tested anything less tasty, but I imagine he would follow any command for a toilet paper spitball!

The problem is tug. Once tug starts his behaviour snowballs until he goes rabid and out of control. I can initially control the "game" by showing the toy, setting a command such as "Murphy, Sit" and then sharing the toy with him. It starts just like in youtube videos on puppy training!

After a very short time he becomes engrossed and completely ignores all commands, as well all food treats. He then charges at people with the toy in his mouth, or drops the toy creates a new makeshift toy on arrival. I am able to recover the "game" by taking back the toy and starting again, but each iteration is fiercer than the preceding one.

Today he jumped at me, dropped his toy, and tore a hole in my shirt under my arm. I ended the session by picking him up and locked him behind the barrier. While I was carrying him out of harms way my hands were out of reach of his snapping jaw and he was bashing the back of his head against my face. That is nothing like anything in youtube videos on puppy training!


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## Howler (Feb 4, 2021)

Just an update: We have long hypothesised that his extreme interest in tugging stems from teething, and we have been trying out various chews for weeks - most are pointless and he either just eats them or doesn't like them.

WildFang cheese arrived today and appears more successful. In the short time he has had the cheese it has fully occupied him and he is now sleeping it off. Fingers crossed this is the answer..


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## Howler (Feb 4, 2021)

How infuriating! We had him back to being a placid softy before the start of the next puppy lesson.

Half way through that lesson the tug toys came out and my mental alarm bells rang! I then stupidly followed the syllabus and the over-stimulated wolf re-emerged. We were unable to restore order; Murphy was zooming off camera with anything and everything within his reach (including my hands or feet) and we all missed the remainder of the live video class. His wrong behaviour persisted for many hours, caused a lot of frustrations, and forced me to banish him from our living room.

We contacted the breeder to check how his parents behaved with tug (these are breeders of obedient show dogs) and the response was to never play tug as it trains a dog to be possessive. I have now patiently nursed Murphy back to playing fetch and being a gentler puppy. He is a good boy and he follows each of my commands in order: Fetch, Come, Drop, Sit ... Fetch, Come, Drop, Sit ... etc. (until he becomes bored and looks at me as though I am an idiot). All he needs in return for his obedience is a chest rub.

On the other hand, our trainer says growling is like laughing (so he laughs at his own reflection?), and we need to be able to recall our dog using a toy (I don't understand what is wrong with relying on the Come command as it seems to work for every other dog owner!) I am minded to abandon this puppy training course and leave negative feedback because its damaging to our puppy's mental health, it is dangerous to people, and it is disruptive to family life. It strikes me as reckless to encourage an excited baby pup to fully exert his 10kg weight without first completing obedience lessons.

Opinions please?


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

I think tugging can be a useful reinforcer. But as with most things, it may not be right for every dog. Almost every sport dog I know uses tug as a reinforcer for their dog (including me) and I belong to an active R+ dog training forum with many top trainers and competitors and I have never heard of tug (trained and played with appropriate rules) causing a dog to become "possessive." It DOES however, build excitement, energy and drive. This can be a great thing if you are ramping up your dog for a fast agility run or an energic obedience routine, BUT for your puppy I would agree that it is likely counter productive to your current goals. Food and quiet praise are more effective at creating and reinforcing calm behaviors, which I think is a better route for your particular puppy at this point in his life. You can always revisit tugging when he's older and has better self control (or not, if it doesn't solve a purpose for you and your training goals).


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Howler said:


> How infuriating! We had him back to being a placid softy before the start of the next puppy lesson.
> 
> Half way through that lesson the tug toys came out and my mental alarm bells rang! I then stupidly followed the syllabus and the over-stimulated wolf re-emerged. We were unable to restore order; Murphy was zooming off camera with anything and everything within his reach (including my hands or feet) and we all missed the remainder of the live video class. His wrong behaviour persisted for many hours, caused a lot of frustrations, and forced me to banish him from our living room.


If I had been in your shoes, I would have let the trainer know that at this point in time, tug is off the table as it overstimulates your puppy and you'd rather keep the session moving forward and end on a good note. Ask what they recommend for impulse control games as you and your puppy both work towards having tug not be so exciting. 



Howler said:


> We contacted the breeder to check how his parents behaved with tug (these are breeders of obedient show dogs) and the response was to never play tug as it trains a dog to be possessive.


 I've never heard of this. I've heard people say tug trains a dog to have a hard mouth but I've heard more than that disagree (and my person experience disagrees too). Lana loves tug. And she can still hold an egg in her mouth without cracking, dropping, or eating it. 



Howler said:


> On the other hand, our trainer says growling is like laughing (so he laughs at his own reflection?), and we need to be able to recall our dog using a toy (I don't understand what is wrong with relying on the Come command as it seems to work for every other dog owner!)


At some point you will likely ruin the come command. It happens. So having a back up way to recall a dog is necessary to train. Even if it's just an emergency recall. Our is "Cookies!" When I call the dogs in from outside, we don't use come. I whistle and they come. When I want to do something negative to them (like a nail trim or medication or just cause they are being naughty) I don't use come; I use here. When we're training I just say FRONT (like "call to front"). And FWIW, there are different growls and my dogs have all had a play growl during tug. But it's very clear it's not a warning growl b/c of the body language. Growls are a communication tool. Dogs growl for a variety of reasons. You gotta couple vocals with body language to form a better picture. 



Howler said:


> I am minded to abandon this puppy training course and leave negative feedback because its damaging to our puppy's mental health, it is dangerous to people, and it is disruptive to family life. It strikes me as reckless to encourage an excited baby pup to fully exert his 10kg weight without first completing obedience lessons.


 You are more than welcome to leave the class. I would recommend talking to the trainer re: your puppy's individual needs that differ from what the class is currently accommodating before you do though. And definitely before leaving a bad review. I've been to many puppy classes and while play and games are encouraged I've never seen a trainer recklessly encourage a puppy to torment their humans. Maybe communication is harder b/c of the format? Have you considered in person training? Doesn't have to be in a group but sometimes that's helpful to see that you're not the only one struggling.


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## Howler (Feb 4, 2021)

@Brave, in-person training is off-limits due to COVID.

All the blogs (and your post) suggest my dog is the world's first schizophrenic dog. He will be gentle and happy, then without body language change he tugs on a toy or an item of clothing, which someone might be wearing. If they are wearing it then it stretches and he becomes excited, growls, his eyes flip to white, and then he goes ballistic.

Ignoring him is not an option because he will nip, and it only escalates. On one occasion I became frustrated and let him remove my sock, which he dropped and then bit my bare foot! To him its all just the same game of tug, just sometimes there is an unwilling "toy" person involved.

The same people in the same environment can have a lovely cuddle too. We need to remove his memory of tug somehow.

P.S. I have sat in my living room with leather jacket, leather shoes, and leather gloves - all for my ownpersonal protection. He seems to worn himself down for the time being.


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## Howler (Feb 4, 2021)

Just an update on the treatment and outcomes:

*Step 1: Setup for failure: *Food and tugging are Murphy's two common causes of over-stimulation. I decided to go all-in and combined them by clenching succulent meaty treats with thick leather gloves, and I allowed Murphy to go wild tugging those gloves. Murphy went ballistic for a long time, but eventually gave up, and I then rewarded him for looking away from the gloves. After few repeats of this over-stimulation he stopped tugging, and he is now much nicer to spend time with. We can again cuddle him!

*Step 2: React to tests:* Murphy is sneaky and he tests our boundaries to see if we have changed our minds about Tug. He occasionally tries to Tug without there being an obvious reason for him to do so. He does this in a gentle way. We react to this by saying "No" and then leaving; we always try to rationalise with him with a non-verbal explanation that tugging is the reason we are leaving him alone. I do not know how he interprets this but he whines and his attempts to Tug us are becoming increasingly infrequent. It took a few weeks of trial and error but we seem to have turned a corner in the house.

*Unresolved scenario:* We seem to have fixed Murphy at home but we might still have a problem in the parks. When a bigger dog says hello nothing will normally happen; he just noses off to them until they are called away by their owners and I have seen this with Huskies and Dobermans. However, when a bigger dog says hello and asserts his dominance, Murphy reacts by freezing and then by putting his tail between his legs, and even lets himself be knocked over by the weight of a bigger dog. Is that normal? The worrying thing is that after all that, when the bigger dog turns his back on Murphy, I suspect Murphy is thinking "_leave me alone_" and giving them a Tug on their buttocks. All I really know is that Murphy does not run from other dogs, and dogs that assert dominance over Murphy will end up running from Murphy and he will chase them. Do I have a problem that needs resolving?


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## Howler (Feb 4, 2021)

Just to clarify, there is a difference between play and chasing.

With other playful puppies Murphy will run in circles and bait them, and all is fine. He also tries to initiate that kind of play with older dogs, which typically fails with a bark or growl from the other dog, and that is also tolerable.

The chasing I am concerned about is when Murphy has turned defensive. After a bigger dog has asserted its dominance Murphy does not accept the outcome. We don't have good visuals of what happens but we have heard yelps and we have seen Murphy chasing dogs twice his weight off the park in a straight line.


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