# Politics?



## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Kohanagold said:


> Are there countries out there where politics is less of an issue in the show ring? Where it matters less who is on the end of the lead and its more about the dog than the handler? Or the backstabbing isn't so common that it's generally accepted?
> 
> I've thought a lot about this but I'm just wondering if there is anywhere you can show your dog or have your dog shown where things aren't so outrageously competitive that you can just go and have fun without all the other crap, or is it like that literally everywhere. I'm told that Int'l Ch aren't that way, but I also have no idea how to find where to go to get one.
> 
> BJ


BJ, the thing that I have learned over the years is that all the crap is only as prevelant as you allow it to be.  Don't get caught up in it, and you'll have a great time.


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> BJ, the thing that I have learned over the years is that all the crap is only as prevelant as you allow it to be.  Don't get caught up in it, and you'll have a great time.


I've always told BIGDAWG that "We paid for the Judge's opinion and whether we like it or not, we have to respect it! It's their opinion"


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## damita (Jun 4, 2009)

I went to my first International show this spring and it was so much FUN!!! Although maybe I was a bit biased as my girl won a Bred By Exhibitor Best in Show I really had a great time - everyone was friendly the judges were really nice and the venue was great. Days were very long though with two shows each day so bring a chair and a snack. Website with a calander is http://www.iabca.com/
I have come to know which judges judge the dogs VS which judge the people and so only enter when I know my dog will get a look. CKC Judge we had in March told me that I had a beautiful dog but that I needed handling lessons (I am never gonna be a pro at this) and I respected that he was able to look past my bad handling skills and appreciate my dog enough to give him the points - he is one I would definetly return to.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

I just got Cole's UKC CH ... and that was so much more fun and more relaxed than AKC. The judges will discuss your dog with you as well. Very nice.

That said...I've said this before, and probably should keep my mouth shut, but of course I won't.

Whenever I've gone to any dog shows...and I mean ALL of them....and I stand around by the Golden ring, I always hear the most hostile, horrid, obnoxious statements coming from the owners of those Goldens. Backstabbing, outright viciousness is the norm. Somebody is always bashing someone else's dogs...or another breeder, or the judge, etc. Rarely do I see anybody being friendly to another exhibitor, or even to someone who asks a question (say a person from the general public). The atmosphere is just dreadful. The first few times (years ago) I was stunned. So was my husband.

So....I don't even go over to that ring anymore. It is NOT like that ringside for most other breeds (except Poodles - they can be just as bad) ... or I've never heard it. Just the opposite, in fact. I hear people supporting one another, helping one another, and being friendly to the public. Heck...they'll have a dog in the ring, and be trying to help out someone else who also has a dog in the ring competing against theirs (like lending a comb/treats/giving water, etc). And they cheer when another dog wins. Imagine that.

So...just my humble opinion...many (NOT ALL) Golden exhibitors need some lessons in humility, showmanship and just common courtesy. Individually...separate from the show ring...most are wonderful people. I don't know what comes over so many of them when they get into competition. I guess it's self-preservation or something. But it's very strange.

It's NOT the AKC...I've never had that kind of treatment showing Newfs. Never. Even the top Newf breeder in the world has always been kind, helpful, and friendly...even IN the ring. Same goes for all the others I've met.

Perhaps the atmosphere has tainted the judges as well? I'm not sure, but I do know some very high powered handlers who will not show Goldens because of the attitude of the owners.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Ardeagold said:


> I just got Cole's UKC CH ... and that was so much more fun and more relaxed than AKC. The judges will discuss your dog with you as well. Very nice.
> 
> That said...I've said this before, and probably should keep my mouth shut, but of course I won't.
> 
> ...


And I'll say this: I have to believe that much of it is regional. I do find people less friendly (no matter the breed) at the east coast shows. The midwest seems to be the friendliest, and the west coast was okay, too. But all that said, I've _never _encountered quite the nastiness that I've read about here.  There is plenty of cheering here, and lots of people willing to help if there is a conflict - it's just not like I am seeing. As for high powered handlers not handling Goldens, whew. Ever think that it's because so many breeder/owner/handlers are _beating _them? At least in the classes, and if an owner wants to send a champion out with a handler, they tend to use Golden specialists...


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

> And I'll say this: I have to believe that much of it is regional. I do find people less friendly (no matter the breed) at the east coast shows. The midwest seems to be the friendliest, and the west coast was okay, too. But all that said, I've never encountered quite the nastiness that I've read about here. There is plenty of cheering here, and lots of people willing to help if there is a conflict - it's just not like I am seeing. As for high powered handlers not handling Goldens, whew. Ever think that it's because so many breeder/owner/handlers are beating them? At least in the classes, and if an owner wants to send a champion out with a handler, they tend to use Golden specialists...


It could well be regional. I don't travel all over to all-breed shows, and hope I never have to go that far. I don't intend to "special" a dog too far away. The East Coast is enough traveling for me. It's a long coastline.

Most of the Goldens I've seen handled here are being handled by a mixture of pros and owners. The handlers (paid) are friendlier, no doubt. It's the owners.....whew!

I didn't say NO high powered handlers handle Goldens. Of course they do. And as you said, some specialize...as with any breed. To clarify, I've ASKED some if they'll handle Goldens...and the answer is no and the reasons given varied, but boiled down to one thing...the hostility. They love the dogs, but the dogs aren't the issue.

You know I've mentioned this before. That's one reason I decided not to get a show Golden and get involved with the conformation ring with Goldens. Ringside just made me cringe. Still does. I must say...I LOVE Newf people, in or out of the show ring. I made the right choice for me.

It's tough out there, and I believe you do know that.


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## Conquerergold (Dec 12, 2007)

Pointgold said:


> And I'll say this: I have to believe that much of it is regional. I do find people less friendly (no matter the breed) at the east coast shows. The midwest seems to be the friendliest, and the west coast was okay, too. But all that said, I've _never _encountered quite the nastiness that I've read about here.  There is plenty of cheering here, and lots of people willing to help if there is a conflict - it's just not like I am seeing. As for high powered handlers not handling Goldens, whew. Ever think that it's because so many breeder/owner/handlers are _beating _them? At least in the classes, and if an owner wants to send a champion out with a handler, they tend to use Golden specialists...


I have only been to a handful of AKC shows, and I will say, for the most part (attitude wise) they are no different then shows here in Ontario. There are bad apples, good apples, and indifferent apples.

When I was in VA last year (Salem shows, majors everyday so lots and lots of exhibitors (including some very big names), I had a BLAST! Everyone was very friendly to this Canuck, even when we beat some of the big names/faces in the Open class. 

There is ugliness in every single breed, some you have to look a little harder for, but it's there. 

In my other breed (Cardigan Corgis, rare breed), I brought my boy out for his debut at the National (I was (and still am) very new to the breed). I was approached by a breeder with well over 30 years invested in the breed. I was rather excited to speak with such a person, upon introducing myself with hand extended, this person said to me 'You have a h*ll of a lot to learn. Don't think your going to ruin this breed like you people have with the Goldens.', to which this person then turned and walked away. Later that afternoon my boy won his class (beating three of this persons dogs), and then went on to Reserve Winners from the Jr. Puppy class. During photos, this person was standing next to me, the only thing I could muster out of my mouth was 'this learning s**t is fun', another breeder with many years of experience overheard me and laughed, apparently it wasn't the first time this person had tried the intimidation trick, but one of the first times it got thrown back  In no way did that ruin our day, but I could really see how someone with thinner skin might have packed up and gone home.

Surround yourself with good people and 99% of the time you will have a blast at the shows.

Cheers
Rob


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

Ardeagold said:


> I just got Cole's UKC CH ... and that was so much more fun and more relaxed than AKC. The judges will discuss your dog with you as well. Very nice.
> 
> That said...I've said this before, and probably should keep my mouth shut, but of course I won't.
> 
> ...


I have only been to one show ever. It was the recent Western Regional. Agility ended pretty early so I spent the rest of the day, maybe 4 or 5 hours hanging out at the conformation ring with all three of my dogs and another friend and her Golden. I must say I thought people were SO nice, to one another and also to me. There was lots of cheering, sometimes I even asked what people were cheering about. (Yeah, I don't know much about conformation shows) But I never got a negative vibe from anyone... I don’t doubt there are politics, I just didn’t think the people were mean…

By the way, Kohanagold: I am sorry about whatever happened to give you a bitter taste in your mouth! Hopefully things get better for you.


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## gabbys mom (Apr 23, 2008)

Pointgold said:


> And I'll say this: I have to believe that much of it is regional. I do find people less friendly (no matter the breed) at the east coast shows. The midwest seems to be the friendliest, and the west coast was okay, too. But all that said, I've _never _encountered quite the nastiness that I've read about here.  There is plenty of cheering here, and lots of people willing to help if there is a conflict - it's just not like I am seeing. As for high powered handlers not handling Goldens, whew. Ever think that it's because so many breeder/owner/handlers are _beating _them? At least in the classes, and if an owner wants to send a champion out with a handler, they tend to use Golden specialists...


I've definitely experienced the nastiness- but I've also experience the nice side- and I'm in the midwest. I tend to think it's a dog show thing in general, since I see a lot of obedience people being really catty at obedience shows, etc.


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## Kohanagold (Nov 5, 2008)

Well, where this all started is at a show a year and a half ago, I was asked where I got my dog. I told this person who my dog's parents were, of which I am very proud of both her parents. Both dogs are very very nice dogs. She looked at the dog, looked up at me and the only thing out of her mouth was "psst. I thought that dog was ugly". I laughed. I couldn't believe somebody would do that (we were ringside waiting to go in). But I learned after that that she, for whatever reason, doesn't like my dogs father. Too bad for her though, because I do. And my dogs mother is a neice to the dog that she used as stud to create her foundation. I doubt she realized that though. But the more I go to shows, the more I see and I'm not sure why that sort of behaviour seems to be tolerated at a dog show when it wouldn't be tolerated walking down the street. 

I was looking to see about how to get a dogs Int'l Ch, because I had heard that it was a lot of fun and the nastiness was at a minimum. But, unfortunately there isn't anything here this year. Maybe next year though. I'm told that there is little value in an Int'l Ch (not like AKC or CKC) but I do like that you get a judges commentary and that it would be more for fun and about the dog than about who or what you beat. Even if, from a breeder standpoint, it has little value, it would be nice to know why the judge likes your dog and what they think are the faults. 

I have also heard about people taking their dogs to other countries and showing them because, perhaps, its all less of an issue. I dont know if there is truth to that or not though. 

I do think you're right Laura, and certainly attempt that. And really, I do have fun but sometimes it does get tiresome. I dont like the sabatogue and its soooo high school to have people putting down others to make themselves look better (that's all it is, I'm sure). Its hard not to get caught up in it sometimes, but can certainly be intimidating. Geez, its intimidating even without that. BJ


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

> I'm told that there is little value in an Int'l Ch (not like AKC or CKC) but I do like that you get a judges commentary and that it would be more for fun and about the dog than about who or what you beat. Even if, from a breeder standpoint, it has little value, it would be nice to know why the judge likes your dog and what they think are the faults.


Same goes for the UKC. Many AKC people look down on it....the conformation part, anyway. I know of many Sporting Dog members of the AKC who joined the UKC for their sporting events. That's why they exist, really. They're all about the total dog...especially the working events.

The conformation people were SO nice. All of them. Real chatty, helpful, and relaxed. 

There is no grooming allowed in the ring - no comb, no brush. Sometimes no bait either. Depends on the judge re: the bait. The dogs are to be groomed, but they'll excuse a dog who is over-groomed...or one that has any kind of "product" on it's coat. No chalk allowed, no dye, no mousse that can be felt, etc. They want to see and feel the dog in it's natural state, per the breed standard. Trimming of feet and ears are allowed...and cleaning up (trimming) of the scragglies, but that's about it. Of course it should be CLEAN, and tidy, but no sculpting, etc. 

There's a very different "feel" to the whole thing.


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## DCPakaMOM (Feb 15, 2009)

My first ever golden specialty, my girl was 6 months, 3 days old. I was so amazed by the nastiness of people talking ringside. Two people in particular were slamming my girl's father and my girl (stud dog competition) -- I don't think they knew who I was or maybe that I was even behind them. I told them, "you never know who is around to hear you, and by the way, that is my dog you are bad mouthing" The quickly shut up. Guess they probably bad mouthed me later.  But who won stud dog???? 

Anyway, I was so disappointed with people and their behavior. Even at that show the local GR club that I had joined a few months prior - the president of the club walked past me numerous times and never spoke. (Small club with less than 30 total members ...) At another show, my girl was in the ring small show, only a point or two I believe - but my handler is an all breed handler, doesn't show a lot of goldens, but very well known -- again, woman standing by me ringside -- "well that bitch only won because of the handler!" -- I said, excuse me, that is actually my bitch and you are welcome to go over her if you like. They didn't. It just amazes me that when people have to bad mouth that they just don't whisper to one another at the least. 

I decided after that weekend not to give up, but to continue with shows and foster only positive comments and attitudes. I do love and adore this breed and love to watch goldens in the ring. Politics frustrate me, but its everywhere. I figure all I can do is be nice, watch my own mouth and be friendly. I find myself getting more competitive but the day when I get nasty ringside is the day I need to quit. 


We have a beautiful amazing breed of dogs, its just a shame people can't behave and give the breed the respect it deserves.

But - now I am finding more and more friendly people at shows (maybe because I don't have anything in the ring to show) - who knows why - maybe I am trying to tune a lot of it out.


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## sammydog (Aug 23, 2008)

DCPakaMOM said:


> I decided after that weekend not to give up, but to continue with shows and foster only positive comments and attitudes. I do love and adore this breed and love to watch goldens in the ring. Politics frustrate me, but its everywhere. I figure all I can do is be nice, watch my own mouth and be friendly. I find myself getting more competitive but the day when I get nasty ringside is the day I need to quit.


 
Be a reflection of what you want to see, I like that plan. Maybe some newbie will meet you first!


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