# Melamine Found In Natural Balance Dry



## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

This from USA Today
Reported in USA Today on 4/17/07: 

*Premium pet food company recalls dry foods 
By Julie Schmit, USA TODAY* 
*Natural Balance Pet Foods said Tuesday it found melamine in two of its pet food products, which the company has recalled.* 

Look for story at: 

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/2007-04-17-premium-pet-food-recalled_N.htm


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

Oh no, now they found it in the rice. What next? I mean, when will we ever feel safe? I just don't understand how this could have happened again. Melamine strikes yet again. I swear, nothing is safe anymore!!! This is just very disturbing to say the least.


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

Diamond makes their food? Now this just makes no sense. That is what the article said. This is just bizarre. Does any company make their own food or is it always contracted out? Even though this food is "made in America" that sure doesn't mean it can't be affected. I am really losing all of my happy thoughts!


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

So how does melanine get into wheat from China as well as rice from the US?? Something's not adding up here.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

If this is true, then it doesn't matter where the ingredients come from. Ugh...

Can the source be in the processing...

This is interesting. Shadow eats Canidae Lamb and Rice. Let's see if they're next!


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

I am not sure either. I read that article, it apparently is very common. Used in both plastics and in fertilizer. But like you said...comtaminating food sources in two different countries? I would really love to hear an explanation for that one!


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Will it ever end... there is nothing posted on there website.....


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

Okay I have a question. A lot of the premium foods use rice as a grain in lieu of corn, wheat, etc. These companies claim they are made from "U.S." ingredients.

Okay, has anyone ever seen a rice paddy here??? I mean, rice is not grown in fields. I really would like to know where the U.S. rice is grown......


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Good point !! I'm going to google this. I have never seen a rice paddy, ever. And I'm not young, and I've been to both sides of the country and many places inbetween.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Today, rice is grown and harvested on every continent except Antarctica, where conditions make its growth impossible. The majority of all rice produced comes from India, China, Japan, Indonesia, Thailand, Burma, and Bangladesh. *Asian farmers still account for 92-percent of the world's total rice production.* More than 550 million tons of rice is produced annually around the globe. In the United States, farmers have been successfully harvesting rice for more than 300 years.There are thousands of strains of rice today, including those grown in the wild and those which are cultivated as a crop. 

What is the history of rice?


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

I Googled it as well, very little rice is produced here. I find it to be a HUGE coincidence that US rice and wheat gluten from China are both contaminated with Melamine. Something is just not adding up...I sure am not connecting the dots. Too strange!


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

We have over 50,000 acres of rice fields here in Sacramento - so yes, there's a LOT of rice grown here. And we ship it to Japan.

I also have a call and email into NB requesting lot numbers of the suspect food if they have it.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

For the small % of rice farmed here in the United States, I would bet money it's not used for pet food.


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

Well and I really would like to know what the odds are that the same chemical would be found in two different grain sources, in two different countries? I guess that is what I am having trouble dealing with right now. Like I said, something just doesn't add up here at all.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

It came from China, I'm hard-pressed right now to believe anything else. Unless our own farmers aren't fessing up.

Maybe it's international bio-terrorism. Has anyone thought of that?? I have :curtain:


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

This is insane!!! UNBELIEVEABLE! Makes me wonder what goes into the food we all eat too. :yuck:


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

Yes actually I have thought of bio-terrorism. I am not a paranoid person by any means. Still, this is just too much of a coincidence. There are sickos everywhere. Who knows how this has all really happened? Sadly, this does not appear to be isolated to the Menu Foods plant exclusively.


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## DogMomAbby (Jul 6, 2005)

There are boards about recalled dog food where people are talking about what dog foods (on or not on the recall list) are making their dogs sick - people have been saying their dogs have been getting sick from NB for over a month now. Beneful dry food is another one that hasn't been recalled that a lot of people have mentioned has made their dogs sick. I don't use either of these foods so I can't comment based on personal experience, only what other people have written. Maybe google the food you use & see if anyone has mentioned their dogs getting sick from it & watch your dogs carefully for any symptoms, don't wait too long to take them to the vet, even if they don't eat recalled food. It's really scary that it's showing up so many places. 

Some dog food production plants may be using the same equipment that used the contaminated wheat gluten & there's been cross-contamination? I'm allergic to gluten & can't eat anything that is made in the same facility as other products containing wheat gluten because of cross-contaimination issues.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I am paranoid. Now I am.


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

The article says, "Herrick also said Diamond got the rice protein concentrate from an American company, which he wouldn't name."

I'd make a bet the American company bought the rice protein from a Chinese source.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

mylissyk said:


> The article says, "Herrick also said Diamond got the rice protein concentrate from an American company, which he wouldn't name."
> 
> I'd make a bet the American company bought the rice protein from a Chinese source.


That's a good point and one I've tried to make before. When a company says it's ingredients come from American companies: Yeah, but where do those American companies get their products from. 

It's like "free range" Just because a product says "free range" it only means the chicken (is it chicken) had the opportunity go outside. It may never have seen daylight and the door is teeny tiny in some cases. I'm not making sense, am I?


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

> This week, the Chinese government reported that an elderly woman died and 202 people were sickened at a hospital north of here after they consumed a breakfast cereal that turned out to be laced with rat poison.


Some Suspect Chemical Mix in Pet Food - New York Times

In the article, it's stated that the owner of the China company, where the suspected contaminated wheat gluten came from, was seeking to purchase large amounts of melanine. 

Chinese grain imports are risky. China doesn't even take care of their own people, they slaughter their dogs by the millions .... do we think they're going to care about our pets ???

I'm venting, forgive me if I'm out of line. I just think this is the tip of the iceberg. And I think there's a whole lot happening out there with our grain supply that big-wig people aren't telling us. The FDA obviously can't protect us well enough from contaminated food imports. I think we need to ban Asian grain imports. Period.


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

You are not out of line JoEllen...you are upset and rightly so. This just gets scarier every day. 

I don't feed natural Balance, but I know it is considered a premium food. Currently I feed Solid Gold, another premium food. For now. How long is this food safe? Who knows? Should I keep feeding it, is it harming them as well? Is my current batch safe......I guess in all honesty I really don't know. My dogs all seem fine, but is it doing some slow internal damage? Again, I cannot say for sure. Which really makes me a lot more nervous! What if it hits the recall list tomorrow?

We try so hard to do all the right things. Sadly some things are beyond our control.


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## ravenchow (Apr 3, 2007)

You shouldn't be trusting any food item coming from China. There was an article in our paper last week about the large quantities of spoiled food coming in from China. The U.S., on average, turns away 200 shipments of incoming from China each month--more than any other country. I have a link to the article on the recall page of this site--if anyone wants to read the disturbing article.

Regarding the U.S. company--that doesn't mean anything. We have a local company here involved in the recall. They buy ingredients from China & sell it to companies here. They won't talk to the media--other than to say they buy quality from China--as they have for many years. But, they were implicated as part of the recall--for distributing poison.

Jody


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

Here is the official notice from Natural Balance

*Contact:
*Consumer Inquiries: 
(800) 829-4493 
Media Inquiries: 
Daniel Bernstein 
310-275-0777
*
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE -- Pacoima, CA -- April 17, 2007--* Natural Balance, Pacoima, CA, is issuing a voluntary nationwide recall for all of its Venison dog products and the dry Venison cat food only, regardless of date codes. The recalled products include Venison and Brown Rice canned and bagged dog foods, Venison and Brown Rice dog treats, and Venison and Green Pea dry cat food. Recent laboratory results show that the products contain melamine. We believe the source of the melamine is a rice protein concentrate. Natural Balance has confirmed this morning that some production batches of these products may contain melamine.

The recall was prompted by consumer complaints received by Natural Balance involving a small number of cats and dogs that developed kidney failure after eating the affected product. 
Dogs or cats who have consumed the suspect food and show signs of kidney failure (such as loss of appetite, lethargy and vomiting) should be seen by a veterinarian. We recommend our customers immediately stop feeding our recalled venison products regardless of date code and return unused product to their retailer for a full refund.
The products are packaged in bags, cans and zip lock treat bags and sold in pet specialty stores and PetCo nationally.
No other Natural Balance products are involved in this voluntary recall as none of our other formulas include the rice protein concentrate.

Although the problems seem to be focused on a particular production period of the venison products, over the last four days we have notified our distributors and retailers by phone and e-mail to immediately stop selling and return all recalled Venison dog foods and treats and the Venison dry cat food. Venison canned cat food is not involved.
The source of the melamine appears to be a rice protein concentrate, which was recently added to the dry venison formulas. Natural Balance does not use wheat gluten, which was associated with the previous melamine contamination.

None of Natural Balance’s other dry formulas, none of our other canned or roll products and none of our other treats are involved with this voluntary recall. 
We continue to work closely with the FDA in their ongoing investigation.
Consumers with questions may contact the company at 1-800-829-4493 or email [email protected].​


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

The source of the melanine is thought to be a _rice protein concentrate._

That's interesting. It's been suggested that the melanine in the wheat gluten may have been added to boost protein levels.

Does melanine mimic protein and make it harder to detect possibly?

Hmmm....


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

OK, who is up for making our own GRF dog food??? I am just so disheartened by this. I really am. I don't care what brand you feed or if you believe in holistic or not...it's just horrible that we have to feel this kind of fear & that animals are suffering. I don't know WHAT to do! I started feeding kibble again mixed in with the THK and now I am paranoid that anything I buy is going to be tainted.


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## Sunshine Goldens (Oct 31, 2005)

Jo Ellen said:


> The source of the melanine is thought to be a _rice protein concentrate._
> 
> That's interesting. It's been suggested that the melanine in the wheat gluten may have been added to boost protein levels.
> 
> ...


 
As I understood it, melamine is a fertilizer. I may be wrong.


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

I have a call in and am trying to get lot numbers and date codes for everyone that uses this food. I had just finished a 35 lb bag of the ven/rice dry mix but had the bag for a couple of weeks so am keeping fingers crossed---NONE of the NorCal pack seem to be affected at this time so I'm pretty sure I'm out of the woods with them. Luckily the bag wa still in the trash so I fished it out to compare when someone calls me back.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Monomer might be able to help with the Melanine question.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Sunshine Goldens said:


> As I understood it, melamine is a fertilizer. I may be wrong.


I asked a question about feeding Shadow Lamb from the grocery store. I can feed him one meal of fresh Lamb and use the Honest Kitchen for the other. I'm afraid he'll be lacking something if I don't feed the HK, but what if? Ugh... He has allergies and can't eat chicken or turkey. Heck, I don't even eat much meat, but does anyone know if dogs can eat Lamb from the grocery store? I think Tucker should be fine, but I might give him some fresh meat once a day too. Ugh...


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

I just got a call back from NB and their official stance is that they are not going to try and differentiate between lot numbers and date codes---they have recalled it ALL.(the listed products) As to NorCal Packs ingestion of the product over the last two weeks from the now empty bag they did say that if there was going to be a reaction to the food it takes place almost immediately and is not a time released sort of problem - in other words (everyone keep paws crossed) if NorCal pack ain't sick yet---they shouldn't be. Other than the listed products on the media release (see my earlier post) NO OTHER NB products are affected. I left my name at the 310 number and had a person call me back within 10 minutes by the way. If anybody has these products, DO NOT USE, call the 310 number above if you have any ?'s--they seem to respond real fast.


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

Oh Steve, I am sure your pack will be fine. I am glad the company responded so quickly. That is always good to hear. I am sure they are terribly upset by this as well.

I guess I am just feeling so paranoid as new foods seem to continue to filter in. I really don't understand why this is still happening. Very scary!

I really don't know who or what to trust at this point. First wheat, now rice. Is anything really safe?


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

I hope the Norcal pack stays Ok.

Since we know it can happen to any food pet or human it is nice to know that at least they are owning up to the problem and answering calls. I still haven't heard back about the peanut butter I called about.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Thanks for posting this information.

I do want to clarify one thing in case there is any confusion, this is for anyone feeding NB's products. THIS STILL ONLY AFFECTS THE VENISON BECAUSE NONE OF THEIR OTHER FORMULAS HAVE THIS RICE PROTEIN IN IT.

I feed the Duck and Potato, and one of the reasons I do is b/c it is a single source food, single carb and protein. If you look at the venison ingredients, it includes 2 different rices and rice bran. The duck doesn't have any of those in it b/c it's made for allergic dogs. I believe this is also true for their other formulas, fish and lamb.

I just want to clarify this for anybody feeding this food who is now worried about the other formulas.

On another note, it's very scary that so many recalls are happening. This rice protein was purchased here in the U.S., so it isn't just overseas products now.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

justmejanis said:


> Oh Steve, I am sure your pack will be fine. I am glad the company responded so quickly. That is always good to hear. I am sure they are terribly upset by this as well.
> 
> I guess I am just feeling so paranoid as new foods seem to continue to filter in. I really don't understand why this is still happening. Very scary!
> 
> I really don't know who or what to trust at this point. First wheat, now rice. Is anything really safe?


I wouldn't feed any food that has any rice or wheat gluten products in it. Anything coming from overseas seems to be in question right now. It's very scary.

Then again, you could think about feeding raw, but human food gets recalled, too, so that's not foolproof either.


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## DogMomAbby (Jul 6, 2005)

I use Solid Gold dry food too (no rice & no gluten), but I've been making my own mixture to add to it for about a year. I use organic ground sirloin (Sera is allergic to all poultry), fresh organic green beans, & carrots. I rotate between yam or squash (baked). I also rotate between things like watermelon, blueberries, mangoes, or whatever fresh fruit is in season (all organic). I know it's not a complete diet with what I'm making for them, so they still have to get some dog food, but it's not as much - I do about half dog food - half what I cook for them. There was an article in the newspaper about feeding your dogs whole rabbits - ick! I couldn't do that (fur, bones, & all).


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

"The company has recalled all dates of the two products, although Herrick says it has only received complaints for food made March 28.

Herrick says Natural Balance, a premium pet food maker based in California, started getting calls Thursday from consumers reporting that dogs were vomiting. By Friday, the company had received calls from seven households regarding 11 dogs, Herrick said. The company also says it has received reports of animals suffering kidney problems, which has also occurred in the Menu recall. 

The consumer calls set off alarms because "we don't get that," Herrick said. 

The company has also received reports involving three or four cats, he said. 

Natural sent out the food Friday to be tested for the usual things that would cause animals to vomit, such as pesticides and heavy metals, Herrick says."

I just wanted to copy this from the article because if they could react this fast why couldn't Menu Foods? And why can't others. It has only been 20 days since this food was produced so it has only been in stores a couple of weeks if even that long. That will save a lot of pet lives.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

marshab1 said:


> "The company has recalled all dates of the two products, although Herrick says it has only received complaints for food made March 28.
> 
> Herrick says Natural Balance, a premium pet food maker based in California, started getting calls Thursday from consumers reporting that dogs were vomiting. By Friday, the company had received calls from seven households regarding 11 dogs, Herrick said. The company also says it has received reports of animals suffering kidney problems, which has also occurred in the Menu recall.
> 
> ...


I agree. I'm very impressed with how fast they acted b/c 11 dogs is not a lot, they should act fast, but I think many other large companies would not have reacted with only 11 cases. 

On another note, my cat gets fed Purina ProPlan Weight Maintenance, I haven't seen any recalls, but now I'm worried. I'm going to look at the ingredients now.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I might be way off base here, but maybe they all could have saved lives if they tested their own ingredients???


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Kimm said:


> I might be way off base here, but maybe they all could have saved lives if they tested their own ingredients???


I hope all companies learn something from this, I agree with you. The only good thing that can come from tragedy is learning so it's prevented in the future. Having said that, I don't know that all food, human or pet, can be totally foolproof, but I do think the USDA, etc. should force more regulations on all food so we would all be safer.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Kimm said:


> I might be way off base here, but maybe they all could have saved lives if they tested their own ingredients???


They don't even do that for our food. So getting them to do it on pet food is probably very unlikely.

When Peter Pan was recalled the first person got sick in August 2006 but it was not recalled until February 2007.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

Melamine in a nitrogen containing molecule and therefore can be used in fertilizer to supply the nitrogen needed to make plants grow green and fast. Melamine is also used to make dishware and to glue things together but it must first be in the form of melamine-formaldehyde... and after curing this cannot be dissolved in the body and therefore plastic dishware does not pose a health risk. Proteins break down into amino acids and these are nitrogen containing compounds so... I would say probably yes that melamine could possibly raise the protein content depending upon exactly how the protein content is determined... my guess is by directly measuring the nitrogen levels present.

Remember that New York state still maintains that the amount of melamine found was no where near enough to cause the kidney damage and deaths that were being investigated. These recalls, so far, have just been 'gut' reactions and a show of 'good faith' by the dog food manufacturers (and thus their parent human-food giants, such as Nestle and Beatrice Foods, etc). The bottomline is they still do not know for sure what has cause the deaths (that is still being debated) or how it got into the food if it was not melamine.

The problem I have is not that China or any one else has sold contaminated food stuffs but rather how come the testing didn't prevent these shipments from entering into our pets' food supply... it now makes me paranoid about what I'm eating as well.... like what else are they NOT testing for?

Louisiana and east Texas grow and ship huge quantities of rice, I had worked for Riviana Foods many years ago and believe me, the U.S. grows and exports a LOT of rice.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I just emailed Canidae. Shadow should be fine. He's been eating what's in this bag for quite awhile now. I asked if with the recent discovery that melanine was found in NB rice proteins, if this could effect their Lamb and Rice product, too.

I stayed away from the potato formula's because I was told to. I did switch to the sweet pototo formula at one point. Shadow can eat beef. Maybe ground sirloin is the way to go? I dunno... Aren't some of these meats fatty?


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Melamine is very rich in nitrogen. So is protein. So high levels of nitrogen can make something appear to be high in protein. 

I've read it's very strange that the melamine got into the wheat gluten in the first place. But now it appears it got into the rice too? Is it possible that pet foods that claim not to have wheat gluten really do? Truth in labeling??? 

The more I read the more confused I get. Why is it taking so long to figure this out? What is the contaminant? Where did it come from? Where is it in our food supply? I think the FDA is being too slow and too quiet.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Kimm, you could try the ground ostrich. It's considered a beef. And it's not fatty. 

:wave:


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

My dogs eat a lamb and rice formula. Solid Gold, not YET recalled. Now what? I mean, do I try to find yet another food? If I do, what guarantee do I have that it is safe?

Organic does NOT automatically mean safe! Last week CNN reported that the tainted spinach was from one farm only, a fairly small farm in California. That one farm sold to an organic company. Simply being organic does not assure safety! It is pesticide and chemical free, but apparently not always E-Coli free!

I am just really confused and upset by this.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

justmejanis said:


> My dogs eat a lamb and rice formula. Solid Gold, not YET recalled. Now what? I mean, do I try to find yet another food? If I do, what guarantee do I have that it is safe?
> 
> Organic does NOT automatically mean safe! Last week CNN reported that the tainted spinach was from one farm only, a fairly small farm in California. That one farm sold to an organic company. Simply being organic does not assure safety! It is pesticide and chemical free, but apparently not always E-Coli free!
> 
> I am just really confused and upset by this.


Unfortunately, I don't think any company can guarantee anything won't ever happen.

I do think that we have to buy from companies that we feel are reputable and will be quick to alert us to a problem. For each of us, that may mean something different.

It's a scary thing all around.


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## Bailey & Bentley (Feb 25, 2007)

The last bag I bought of Natural Balance Venison and Brown Rice was two weeks ago. Luckily, my dogs haven't had any problems, but I don't know how long it would take if they were to have symptoms. I would assume it would have been by now. Freaks me out.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Bailey & Bentley said:


> The last bag I bought of Natural Balance Venison and Brown Rice was two weeks ago. Luckily, my dogs haven't had any problems, but I don't know how long it would take if they were to have symptoms. I would assume it would have been by now. Freaks me out.


It is supposed to be very fast acting and since it is only 20 days from the production date I think you could safely assume that it takes about a week to get put on a store shelf. And if you buy at a chain store it would most likely take a little longer.

I hate to say this but I think I'll be buying from Petco for a while. They told me at the store that all food is shipped to them from their warehouses not from individual companies. So the food takes time to get to the warehouse and then to the store I buy it from. Ina case liek this it might make all the difference in the world.

I also buy from a local chain so I'm going to check and see how they get theirs. I'm just thinking that right now I don't want to get a fresh bag right from the production plant.


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

Bailey & Bentley said:


> The last bag I bought of Natural Balance Venison and Brown Rice was two weeks ago. Luckily, my dogs haven't had any problems, but I don't know how long it would take if they were to have symptoms. I would assume it would have been by now. Freaks me out.


The spokesman for NB said that any reaction would have been almost immediate--say within a day, maybe 2 or three. Our bag of NB was brought home from Petco over two weeks ago and Lord know how much time it had in storage and transit. Anything brought home last week I believe would be suspect.


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

There is a lot of buzzing going on on that forum where I got the story. Many are very upset because they used NB because it was all American produced stuff except for the venison and lamb which comes from new Zealand. Also, they produced their own food. now they are saying Diamond acutally makes it, lie #1 and that the rice did come from China, lie #2 (home grown) I have never used it, don't know anything about it, just repeating what some of the users on that forum said. They are starting to wonder if you can believe any dog food manufacturer.


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## Hudson (May 18, 2005)

*I emailed the company last night regarding recall reply below*

Natural Balance Pet Foods has issued a voluntary recall of our Venison & Brown Rice products after receiving some complaints of animals having digestive problems. The problem may be related to the Rice Protein used in the Venison products and this ingredient is not used in any of our other products. Natural Balance Pet Foods also does not use Wheat Gluten in any products. Please be assured that all other Natural Balance Pet Food products continue to be of the highest quality and are in no way affected by the concerns regarding the Venison.

Sincerely,

Karen Venne

Natural Balance Pet Foods, Inc.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Some interesting information at this site regarding the rice protein concentrate used in Natural Balance (and some other pet foods). It is from China, shock of shocks.

Pet Food Recalls | 2007 | Menu Foods, et. al.

There's a story about labeling here. Does anyone have an old bag of the NB venison food? Apparently, it's being said that the rice protein concentrate did not appear in the list of ingredients until yesterday. I'm wondering if that's true 

Looks like Diamond is in trouble again, do you think?


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

This is not the kibble I feed so I have no bags.

Of course now I am worried since the article contained here says the rice protein was sold to another (unnamed) dog food company.

I am so sick of this. I mean really, just sick.

Thanks for posting this. It is a very interesting website with a lot of good information.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Here's what I want to know.

*Which pet-food makers? * "sold the concentrate to five pet-food makers,"


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

They'll let us know after they wrap up their week long board meetings


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

I have double checked the ingredients in the Solid Gold I feed. It lists brown rice, but NOT "Rice Protein Concentrate" which seems to be the culprit here.

Then again, the Natural Balance apparently did not list it on the older bags?

I frankly do not know what to believe anymore!


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

I think China is trying to kill us. :uhoh:


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

The STRESS from all this is about ready to kill me!


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

3 goldens said:


> There is a lot of buzzing going on on that forum where I got the story. Many are very upset because they used NB because it was all American produced stuff except for the venison and lamb which comes from new Zealand. Also, they produced their own food. now they are saying Diamond acutally makes it, lie #1 and that the rice did come from China, lie #2 (home grown) I have never used it, don't know anything about it, just repeating what some of the users on that forum said. They are starting to wonder if you can believe any dog food manufacturer.


My understanding for a long time has been that NB makes and packages it's own product but borrows space in the Diamond plant.

Also, the rice protein concentrate they believe contains the melamine was bought in the U.S. from a U.S. supplier. Not from China, but...


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

GoldenShamus said:


> My understanding for a long time has been that NB makes and packages it's own product but borrows space in the Diamond plant.
> 
> Also, the rice protein concentrate they believe contains the melamine was bought in the U.S. from a U.S. supplier. Not from China.


But where did the US supplier buy it from? :uhoh:


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

Kimm said:


> But where did the US supplier buy it from? :uhoh:


 
It's true - the US supplier did buy it from China


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Kimm said:


> But where did the US supplier buy it from? :uhoh:


My understanding is that it is a U.S. produced product made here, now I'm trying to figure out where I read that last night.

NB has for a long time said only two of their meat products come from New Zealand and everything else is from here. If that proves untrue, than I've got questions for NB, but until then, I will search and wait for an answer from them. 

I just tried to call them, as you might suspect--line busy.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

sharlin said:


> It's true - the US supplier did buy it from China


That is really upsetting. Only for the fact that NB, I thought, had said all of their ingredients are purchased here. So, it's a sort of roundabout statement...

Now I'd really like to know how many dog food companies get ALL of their ingredients truly from here. Are there any?


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

There's rice in Tucker's food....should I be concerned....?


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

GoldenLover84 said:


> There's rice in Tucker's food....should I be concerned....?


I don't know anymore. I really don't. 

The most important thing you can do though is to watch your own dog for any signs that they aren't right--lethargic, drinking more than normal, not going to the bathroom normally, throwing up. If your dog seems normal and there are no recalls on your formula, I wouldn't worry, just keep checking the food's website.

I'm also worried about my cat's food, he eats Purina ProPlan.


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

Well, he's acting normal, but has thrown up twice the past week. But he also keeps drinking out of the pond in the backyard which is all green with algae and dead frogs. :doh: So I figure that's why he throws up (because he seems to only do it after he's been caught drinking from it)

Tucker's on Nutro Ultra Large Breed Puppy, which isn't on the recall list *yet* but they're website said their dryfoods are safe. The Ultra has whole brown rice in it.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Deleted post, sorry.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

See...it's what they don't say or are allowed to say. Like hormone free labels. Of course they may not give additional hormones to the animals, but all animals do produce hormones, so how is something hormone free?

Ugh...I'm just not buying new bags of dog food. I think THK and meat from the grocery store will be on our list.


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

My brother's cat had to be put down yesterday  Him and his wife are both devestated... they're cat was only like 2 years old...


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

GoldenLover84 said:


> There's rice in Tucker's food....should I be concerned....?


I would say that what you have now is ok. When you have to buy a new bag look for the oldest one you can find at the store. You can tell by the use by date. I think at this point you want somethign that has been in the stores a while that others have used and it has not made their pets sick.


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## Angel_Kody (Feb 27, 2007)

So...I suppose we must assume that when a company says that thier ingredients come fom a "US Supplier" that they are just that...a "Supplier" and the supplier could be getting the ingredients from anywhere in the world? Yikes...


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

sharlin said:


> It's true - the US supplier did buy it from China


I think we need to be addressing the suppliers also. Who knows what they have told the dog food companies. This particular supplier may get 90% of its rice from the US and that is what is supposed to be supplied to NB but when NB needed more it came from the imported stock.

Things like this happen. We had a farmer about an hour form me that supplied fresh MI grown strawberries to one of our grocery store chains. When there was a problem it came out that he was supplying MI strawberries but he was also getting California strawberries shipped to his farm and he was actually selling both to the store.


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

Well I'll keep buying the same food then, as he seems fine (other than puking, but like I said, drinking nasty pond water would probably do that) He's definitely still hyper and eats all his food.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Angel_Kody said:


> So...I suppose we must assume that when a company says that thier ingredients come fom a "US Supplier" that they are just that...a "Supplier" and the supplier could be getting the ingredients from anywhere in the world? Yikes...


That's the way I see it, but

I just received an email from Canidae. They mentioned buying their ingredients from US suppliers only. I asked in a reply, "Where do your US suppliers purchase their ingredients?" No answer yet.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Very interesting, Kimm. Let us know what you hear back.

I think the public is getting fairly wise to all this now. How will they respond when the stock answers don't get them off the hook anymore?

I'm bitter. Can you tell ??


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## sashac (Mar 13, 2006)

Kimm, I would be very interested to hear their response to your question - please post if you get one! I used to have Charlie on Canidae and with all this going on, am thinking of switching him back on to it. I can't cook him boiled rice and chicken every nite!


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

sashac said:


> Kimm, I would be very interested to hear their response to your question - please post if you get one! I used to have Charlie on Canidae and with all this going on, am thinking of switching him back on to it. I can't cook him boiled rice and chicken every nite!


This was their first response:I asked about the new recall: Haven't received a response about the suppliers yet though.
"*Safety is purchasing commodities from a supplier you trust. We do not purchase any ingredients from China or any other foreign country. All ingredient are from the US. Unfortunately, It appears as though the most recent recall was from Rice Gluten that was imported from China as well. To reiterate, we do not import any ingredients nor do we use any glutens.

Sincerely,
Canidae Pet Foods"*


My two both eat Canidae. Shadow is on the Lamb and rice formula and Tucker is on Plantinum.

I also have Shadow eating one meal of THonest Kitchen. It has too many calories in it for Tucker.

As many of you know, I am the world's biggest "Yeah, but?" person. That's what my husband calls me. I'm forever getting answers and then I have more questions! I have a royal headache. Not sure if it's all of this, or something else.


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## gold'nchocolate (May 31, 2005)

Someone over on ChatGoldens was having a problem with her dog vomiting for a few days and she was going to take him to the vet on Monday but over the weekend she saw the recall of the DVP Venison and Rice---she took him off the food and he has been fine since then.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

gold'nchocolate said:


> Someone over on ChatGoldens was having a problem with her dog vomiting for a few days and she was going to take him to the vet on Monday but over the weekend she saw the recall of the DVP Venison and Rice---she took him off the food and he has been fine since then.


I'd take mine to the Vet immediately if this happen. I'm sure she will.


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

Check out this site....look at products, then agriculture and food....

Product Directory - China product catalog, China products directory

And these articles:

How pet food makers get their supplies a tawdry tale

Pet Food Importer Blames Its Chinese Supplier


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

Will looking at these websites make me more or less cranky??


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

I posted a little "story" on a couple of forums, don't see it here, so weill tell it. to me, this is what the food companies are doing. 

Little Johnny comes in the door and mom said"Where have you been?" he said "I went to grandma's for cookies and milk>" Mom, "Oh, that is fine."

BUT what little Johnny didn't tell was that he walked down the center stripe of the highway, was chased by a mean bull when he went thru the field to swipe a couple of apples from Farmer Brown, tried to catch a cotton mouth in the creek, spent time swinging on vines over a rock filled ravine, removed some boards from a dangerous cave, went in and started a fire with matchs he was not suppose to have, then arrived at Grandma's house for cookies and milk.

He had told the truth, he had gone to Grandmas and had cookies and milk. He just omitted all the bad and dangerous stuff he did on the way. I feel this is what the dog food makers are doing us. We get the 'end" of the story (only products bouth in the USA) but where did they come from before they were here in the USA?


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

> Meanwhile, how can the consumer trust a billion dollar pet food industry where pet food manufacturers buy supplies from a company with not even a sign on its door?


How pet food makers get their supplies a tawdry tale

You know, this might not be about China at all, really. This is about our own food brokers. Our own people !!   

Edited -- this quote is not referring to the China company where the wheat gluten originated. The office without the sign on the door is ChemNutra, the Las Vegas company that brought in the product and then distributed it to the pet food manufacturers. Who is this company ??? Why are our pet food makers buying supplies from a hole-in-the-wall company ???

This isn't about China. This is about America.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Oh......this is just too overwhelming.


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## DogMomAbby (Jul 6, 2005)

marshab1 said:


> I would say that what you have now is ok. When you have to buy a new bag look for the oldest one you can find at the store. You can tell by the use by date. I think at this point you want somethign that has been in the stores a while that others have used and it has not made their pets sick.


Except that the problem with Menu Foods originally happened with food produced in January - it just took them months to say anything about it. Vets were calling them back in January about pets getting sick/dying with no response from them.

I'd suggest checking recalled dog food boards to see if anyone mentions their dogs getting sick from the food you use (not recalled yet). Beneful has been mentioned a lot on some dog food boards as making their dogs sick for a few months, but it hasn't been recalled yet - that would make me nervous.

What makes me the most angry is the companies that realize there's a potential problem & not responding, more dogs & cats getting sick every day when it could be prevented if they just said something. I think NB at least responded quickly & took no chances about specific lots or dates, they just recalled all of it & responded back to customers/vets.

The whole thing is just infuriating though and not knowing which manufacturers to trust. The dog food I use has oatmeal in it instead of rice or gluten, but oatmeal could end up with the same thing in it at any time. 

If we all share what food we're feeding & not having our dogs get sick, I think that makes me feel a little better/safer.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> Very interesting, Kimm. Let us know what you hear back.
> 
> I think the public is getting fairly wise to all this now. How will they respond when the stock answers don't get them off the hook anymore?
> 
> I'm bitter. Can you tell ??


I know what you mean JoEllen. I have been trying to reach NB b/c I want to know why they changed the ingredient rice bran (sunday) to Rice Protein Concentrate (Monday)...what the heck? Shamus doesn't eat a formula with this in it, but I'm very uncomfortable with this and want an answer. If they won't give me one, I will switch foods...

Not an easy thing with my guy. Try finding a food that has a single source carb and protein in it. Honest Kitchen, Canidae, Eagle Pack, NONE of them have it.  

Timberwolf Organics Ocean Blue formula does though, Nancy helped me research foods today and we figured that much out. So, at least that is an option. But, Shamus has never done better on a food than he has on NB Duck, no more vomiting, awesome stools, no gas, coat looks good, etc. I will be very upset if I'm forced to switch. Wah!


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

DogMomAbby said:


> Except that the problem with Menu Foods originally happened with food produced in January - it just took them months to say anything about it. Vets were calling them back in January about pets getting sick/dying with no response from them.
> 
> I'd suggest checking recalled dog food boards to see if anyone mentions their dogs getting sick from the food you use (not recalled yet). Beneful has been mentioned a lot on some dog food boards as making their dogs sick for a few months, but it hasn't been recalled yet - that would make me nervous.
> 
> ...


See, that's the thing, I am very impressed with NB's response, and that's a big plus in their corner. However, changing an ingredient from one night ot the next on their site (Sunday night I saw Rice Bran with my own eyes and the following night it said rice protein concentrate--that's what I am not happy about).

I have been singing NB's praises for their duck formula, been working amazing things on my boy, but they need to reinstate my trust by answering the question regarding the ingredient change.


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

I also think they really need to clarify that "made from US products only".......

It is misleading!

The rice protein came from CHINA.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

justmejanis said:


> I also think they really need to clarify that "made from US products only".......
> 
> It is misleading!
> 
> The rice protein came from CHINA.


I agree. I'm trying to remember now why I thought all their products came from the U.S., did I read that on their site or on a food forum? 

I have them on redial but it is just busy, busy, busy.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

GoldenShamus, you saw yourself that NB changed their ingredients from one day to the next?

Why would they do that???


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Jo Ellen said:


> GoldenShamus, you saw yourself that NB changed their ingredients from one day to the next?
> 
> Why would they do that???


Yes, I did see it. I compared the ingredients in the venison formula to those in the duck before they announced what the actual problem was. Then monday night, the ingredient list had been altered. That's what I"m furious about.

NB had my support up until then, now I want an answer. I just emailed Timberwolf Organics (they have a single source carb/protein food, Ocean Blue) and I want verification that all their ingredients orginate/farmed/grown here as they could be a potential food to switch to should I decide to.

I'm not a happy camper b/c the NB Duck was the first food in his whole llife that Shamus has done really well on. Wah! I"m still not convinced I'm switching foods, but I do want answers so I keep calling......line is busy though.


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

Trust is so important. We've all been so violated, and changed forever. Pet food companies are going to have to answer to that, somehow. I wonder how they will.

NB needs to answer your question. Please let me know if they do, and how they answer. 

Can you imagine how a person would feel if their pet died from eating one of their brands and the person couldn't get through to them because their line was constantly busy? I think I would go insane with anger. 

My first thought would be to install more phone lines to accomodate the people who have placed such precious trust in their products. 

How long have the lines been busy?


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Jo Ellen said:


> GoldenShamus, you saw yourself that NB changed their ingredients from one day to the next?
> 
> Why would they do that???


I read somewhere else a while ago that companies have like 2 or 3 months after they change the ingredients to change the ingredients list on a bag of food so I would assume that this would apply to the website also. This is true of human food and pet food.

So the ingredient may have changed and the website had not been updated yet. Once they realized there was a problem they would have wanted to update everything to give people the most up to date info. Those with food before the ingredient change do not seem to be affected.

Companies are notorious for not updating their websites.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I think Canidae Lamb and rice might be one protein, one carb. They say they don't use any glutens. :uhoh: Shadow used to eat TWO Ocean Blue and they have Lamb and Apples. Not sure if TWO's Lamb and Apples is a single protein/single carb. Can't remember off the top of my head.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Kimm said:


> I think Canidae Lamb and rice might be one protein, one carb. They say they don't use any glutens. :uhoh: Shadow used to eat TWO Ocean Blue and they have Lamb and Apples. Not sure if TWO's Lamb and Apples is a single protein/single carb. Can't remember off the top of my head.


I've looked at Canidae. They don't have any allergy formulas. 

Also, Shamus didn't do well on a lamb formula...


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## Jo Ellen (Feb 25, 2007)

So in view of the current situation with the melamine in the wheat gluten and rice protein concentrate ... how would one know whether or not a pet food contains these ingredients? Maybe they added it recently and just haven't changed their ingredient list yet?

I don't like that rule.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

marshab1 said:


> I read somewhere else a while ago that companies have like 2 or 3 months after they change the ingredients to change the ingredients list on a bag of food so I would assume that this would apply to the website also. This is true of human food and pet food.
> 
> So the ingredient may have changed and the website had not been updated yet. Once they realized there was a problem they would have wanted to update everything to give people the most up to date info. Those with food before the ingredient change do not seem to be affected.
> 
> Companies are notorious for not updating their websites.


My friend Nancy was also trying to reassure me by saying that today, too. That is a good point. Maybe I just need to calm down...

I've been so happy with NB up until this point, so I'll reserve judgement until I speak with them.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Jo Ellen said:


> So in view of the current situation with the melamine in the wheat gluten and rice protein concentrate ... how would one know whether or not a pet food contains these ingredients? Maybe they added it recently and just haven't changed their ingredient list yet?
> 
> I don't like that rule.



I don't like it either. Especially since they can do it to human food also. In the research I saw most comapnies do change the bag pretty quick but not he website.

Blue Buffalo used to contain Menodine(sp?) they removed it which made their food better. But it took them months to change their website. It just didn't seem to be a priority. Even though many people turned away from their food because of it.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

GoldenShamus said:


> I've looked at Canidae. They don't have any allergy formulas.
> 
> Also, Shamus didn't do well on a lamb formula...


Wow, Shadow is on the Lamb for his allergies. If you switch to TWO's I hope it works for you. This is when Shadow's coat went crazy... Each dog is different though.


All Natural Ingredients
Lamb Meal, Brown Rice, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Flax Seed, Sun cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Lamb, Lecithin, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory Root), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, L-Lysine, Taurine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of Vitamin B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Organic Selenium, Dried Papaya, Dried Pineapple, Vitamin B12 Supplement.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

GoldenShamus said:


> My friend Nancy was also trying to reassure me by saying that today, too. That is a good point. Maybe I just need to calm down...
> 
> I've been so happy with NB up until this point, so I'll reserve judgement until I speak with them.


We all want what is best for our babies. So i think you would be wise to calm down. Hard I know. But would it be in Shamus' best interest to switch him from the food he's had the best luck with?

That's why I'm reserving judgement and Tinkerbell really hasn't had any issues. But she really likes the NB.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

marshab1 said:


> We all want what is best for our babies. So i think you would be wise to calm down. Hard I know. But would it be in Shamus' best interest to switch him from the food he's had the best luck with?
> 
> That's why I'm reserving judgement and Tinkerbell really hasn't had any issues. But she really likes the NB.


Thank you for saying that, I needed to hear it. 

I really do like the NB Duck, it has done wonders for my boy.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

GoldenShamus said:


> Thank you for saying that, I needed to hear it.
> 
> I really do like the NB Duck, it has done wonders for my boy.


So then, you should stick with it.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Kimm said:


> So then, you should stick with it.


Thanks Kim.

I think I just got a little riled up, I need to calm down and use my head.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

GoldenShamus said:


> Thank you for saying that, I needed to hear it.
> 
> I really do like the NB Duck, it has done wonders for my boy.


i was hoping I didn't offend you. But with the way things are going...anything you switch him to could have the same problems next month. And having read of the problems he's had...It could take him months to get back to where he is now.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

marshab1 said:


> i was hoping I didn't offend you. But with the way things are going...anything you switch him to could have the same problems next month. And having read of the problems he's had...It could take him months to get back to where he is now.


You totally didn't offend me, not at all. I was calm the first day this came out and really defending NB. I just got thrown with ingredient change on monday so I've been upset, but what you said makes a lot of sense.

NB really has done wonders and I'd hate to switch Shamus. Also, the only carb in his food is potatoes and unless it gets into the potato supply...

There are many other foods out there with rice in it, I really hope this is the end of the recalls. I'm very curious to know who the other unnamed company is that also bought some of this rice protein concentrate. I agree with you that we just don't know what could be next...


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm sure you know there was more than one supplier who purchased tainted ingredients. This is the Web site of another. Reading through here and seeing everything they supply the companies with, can be eye opening. 

Wilbur-Ellis Feed Division - Feed Ingredients, Co-products, Forage, Livestock Nutrition

"Wilbur-Ellis noted that it obtained rice protein from a single source in China and shipped to a total of five U.S. pet-food manufacturers located in Utah, N.Y., Kansas and two in Missouri."
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATE


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

This is what Nutro's site says:

"Nutro Dry Foods, Biscuits and Treats are NOT manufactured by Menu Foods
and are NOT Affected by Recall"

So... who knows anymore... Tucker's fine so far, and he's had a new bag of food since this recall.


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

I am absolutely outraged that they haven't revealed the other companies potentially using the tainted rice protein, and I don't understand why the FDA hasn't forced the issue. 

I'm angry enough to want to force the company's execs to eat food from all of their customers -- including some that's potentially tainted -- and see which ones make THEM sick. 

All 3 of my dogs have been using NB Venison & Brown Rice for more than a year. I've been extremely happy with it. But we've switched to Wellness at least for the time being. Fingers crossed that someone at Wellness has the integrity to test all of their ingredients for impurities before using them.


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

My brother's cat was on Wellness and just suddenly died 2 days ago... so who knows...


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

GoldenLover84 said:


> My brother's cat was on Wellness and just suddenly died 2 days ago... so who knows...


Wellness used to have a good reputation and then suddenly changed their formulas for the worse a while back, without telling anybody. Their reputation has gone downhill since.


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

Yeah...well they're pretty devestated as he was only 2 years old, so still pretty much in kitten mode (very hyper kitty). He got sick really fast and they had to put him down the day after.


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

Did they do a necropsy? Did the vet have a clue what was wrong? That is just scary under the circumstances!


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## Brandy's Mom (Oct 5, 2005)

Well, THAT news is worrisome. I don't have a lot of options because Brandy must stay on venison, and she's allergic to wheat and corn.


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

justmejanis said:


> Did they do a necropsy? Did the vet have a clue what was wrong? That is just scary under the circumstances!


They didn't have the money to do any testing, it was $500 to put him down and the vet wanted $250 to sell them his ashes, which I think is extremely rude and sad.

I think they said he developed crystals somewhere, and he ended up not being able to pee anymore, he was gone within 24 hours.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

GoldenLover84 said:


> They didn't have the money to do any testing, it was $500 to put him down and the vet wanted $250 to sell them his ashes, which I think is extremely rude and sad.
> 
> I think they said he developed crystals somewhere, and he ended up not being able to pee anymore, he was gone within 24 hours.


That is very scary. Isn't that one of the things all these recalls have been causing?


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

GoldenLover84 said:


> Yeah...well they're pretty devestated as he was only 2 years old, so still pretty much in kitten mode (very hyper kitty). He got sick really fast and they had to put him down the day after.


I'm so sorry. That's awful. 

My condolensces to your brother and his family. A cat at only 2 years old dying is especially worrisome, in the light of all the food issues.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

marshab1 said:


> That is very scary. Isn't that one of the things all these recalls have been causing?


Yes. That is definitely the sign of a kidney issue from everything I've read. 

I don't think we've heard the last of it, I hope we have, but I just don't know.


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

Brandy's Mom said:


> Well, THAT news is worrisome. I don't have a lot of options because Brandy must stay on venison, and she's allergic to wheat and corn.


 
Wow that certainly limits your options. My options are limited by geography, very few of the premium foods are sold here. Transportation costs to this state are high, it is so frustrating.

I am really wondering about doing all homemade, but not raw. I just can't do the raw thing. I am already cooking chicken and ground beef and kidneys, adding carrots, green beans and fruit. This goes in their dry food which I have decreased.


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## Ninde'Gold (Oct 21, 2006)

Both their cats are on the same food, so far their other cat is okay (she's like 11 I think) I really hope she doesn't get sick either.

I wish this whole thing would just be over with already. 

Wellness isn't on the recall list, btw.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

justmejanis said:


> Wow that certainly limits your options. My options are limited by geography, very few of the premium foods are sold here. Transportation costs to this state are high, it is so frustrating.
> 
> I am really wondering about doing all homemade, but not raw. I just can't do the raw thing. I am already cooking chicken and ground beef and kidneys, adding carrots, green beans and fruit. This goes in their dry food which I have decreased.


I know what you mean Janis, if I thought I could do a really good job of it and I could give him a balance of all the right nutrients, I might do it, too. There's something really sweet about it that makes me want to do it, quite frankly.

Having said that, human foods are recalled as well, so it's still not a foolproof way of feeding either.


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

Oh I know human foods are subject to recall as well. Basically it is a crapshoot.

I just have this sinking feeling that we have not seen the end of the pet food problem. Look how long it took for the NB to be recalled. Initially all the recalled foods were from just the Menu Food plant. Now this. What happens tomorrow, next week? Frankly I am leary to feed the Solid Gold at this point. I am still feeding it, but have to admit I am not too comfortable with it right now. This whole thing has just snowballed. It keeps getting bigger and bigger. Frankly that scares the hell out of me!


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

justmejanis said:


> Oh I know human foods are subject to recall as well. Basically it is a crapshoot.
> 
> I just have this sinking feeling that we have not seen the end of the pet food problem. Look how long it took for the NB to be recalled. Initially all the recalled foods were from just the Menu Food plant. Now this. What happens tomorrow, next week? Frankly I am leary to feed the Solid Gold at this point. I am still feeding it, but have to admit I am not too comfortable with it right now. This whole thing has just snowballed. It keeps getting bigger and bigger. Frankly that scares the hell out of me!


Actually, I have to say that NB recalled their product quickly. They had recently changed that venison formula and learned of problems thursday of last week and recalled it by the weekend. That is much faster than any recall I've ever heard.

Scary to me is this: (Kim posted this link and i don't know how many people went and looked at it--maybe it needs its own thread right now.)

Wilbur-Ellis noted that it obtained rice protein from a single source in China and *shipped to a total of five U.S. pet-food manufacturers located in Utah, N.Y., Kansas and two in Missouri.*

*Wilbur-Ellis is urging all pet food manufacturers using rice protein concentrate supplied through Wilbur-Ellis to recall any pet food *that may be on supermarket shelves.

How many more companies does this involve? Wilbur Ellis is urging these companies to recall their food, but they haven't....we haven't seen 5 more companies come out, only 1 that I'm aware of. 

This is not over...


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

IMO, anyone feeding a food with rice or wheat in it, needs to ask their company if those products are made here or overseas. 

Wellness, for example, has a statement on their site that basically says they didn't purchase rice from that particular supplier in China who is having the problem, what they aren't saying is that they didnt purchase any rice from any chinese supplier. Read b/w the lines...


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

GoldenShamus said:


> Actually, I have to say that NB recalled their product quickly. They had recently changed that venison formula and learned of problems thursday of last week and recalled it by the weekend. That is much faster than any recall I've ever heard.
> 
> Scary to me is this: (Kim posted this link and i don't know how many people went and looked at it--maybe it needs its own thread right now.)
> 
> ...


 
I didn't mean the NB didn't recall their food quickly enough. Maybe I didn't explain it well. What I meant was after the Menu Food recall, well, we are sort of finally able to breathe a sigh of cautious relief. Then out of the blue, weeks later, another recall, a premium food this time. That is what scares me the most. It is still happening, now with a different ingredient. 

How is it possible to feel safe in light of the latest recall?


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

GoldenShamus said:


> IMO, anyone feeding a food with rice or wheat in it, needs to ask their company if those products are made here or overseas.
> 
> Wellness, for example, has a statement on their site that basically says they didn't purchase rice from that particular supplier in China who is having the problem, what they aren't saying is that they didnt purchase any rice from any chinese supplier. Read b/w the lines...


Janis, have you looked at Solid Gold's website? They came out and made a nice statement saying that they do not outsource, indirectly or directly, any ingredients from China. I thought that might make you feel better. As you know I fed their food for a long time, it didn't work well with Shamus, but I always thought it was a good food.


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## marshab1 (Aug 28, 2006)

And we have all learned from this that American supplier doesn't mean american ingredients. 

GL84 - I'm also sorry to hear about your brother's cat. I hope it wasn't from the food but I would urge them to at least make sure they get a different bag.


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## justmejanis (Feb 25, 2007)

I did read the announcement on their website. Still....I was looking at many websites after the initial recall. NB ALSO had a statement that their foods were not affected. At that time, of course, they weren't.

The point I guess is that yes, for NOW, Solid Gold remains unaffected. I hope they are being completely honest. I know those who feed NB (which I certainly considered) were confused about WHERE these ingredients came from. Initally that food seemed safe. Then we find out...well, yes, we use ingredients from the US....hmmm. A little glitch then with the rice protein coming from China. I don't think they intentionally lied, but I do think they definitely wanted people to believe ALL their ingredients are home grown. I mean, I guess I just think they weren't being 100% forthright.

I can only hope Solid Gold remains a safe food. If anything happens with it, there will NEVER be another commercial pet food in this house, EVER!


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Brandy's Mom said:


> Well, THAT news is worrisome. I don't have a lot of options because Brandy must stay on venison, and she's allergic to wheat and corn.


Can you use something like Honest Kitchen's Preference formula. I believe that is the one which is meat free and has no corn or wheat (check first). Maybe you can buy venison and add it. Just a thought. 

If I could afford to feed my two only THK, I would. It's pretty expensive. However, I just received 4 bags at a good price because they offered a huge discount recently. It's pretty high in calories, so Tucker wouldn't do well on it. We tried. The amount he can eat is so small, he was not a happy camper.

Hopefully, the owner of Solid Gold (if she still owns it) learned her lesson about be forthright years ago. I'm hoping the same with Canidae and all other Pet food Suppliers...


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

justmejanis said:


> I did read the announcement on their website. Still....I was looking at many websites after the initial recall. NB ALSO had a statement that their foods were not affected. At that time, of course, they weren't.
> 
> The point I guess is that yes, for NOW, Solid Gold remains unaffected. I hope they are being completely honest. I know those who feed NB (which I certainly considered) were confused about WHERE these ingredients came from. Initally that food seemed safe. Then we find out...well, yes, we use ingredients from the US....hmmm. A little glitch then with the rice protein coming from China. I don't think they intentionally lied, but I do think they definitely wanted people to believe ALL their ingredients are home grown. I mean, I guess I just think they weren't being 100% forthright.
> 
> I can only hope Solid Gold remains a safe food. If anything happens with it, there will NEVER be another commercial pet food in this house, EVER!


 
I know Janis, I know. Solid Gold was caught in a scandal years and years ago about lying in regards to product content, I doubt they would want to go down that road again. I don't think you have anything to worry about. Let's hope none of us do, or we may ALL be doing our own homecookin'.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Kimm said:


> Can you use something like Honest Kitchen's Preference formula. I believe that is the one which is meat free and has no corn or wheat (check first). Maybe you can buy venison and add it. Just a thought.
> 
> If I could afford to feed my two only THK, I would. It's pretty expensive. However, I just received 4 bags at a good price because they offered a huge discount recently. It's pretty high in calories, so Tucker wouldn't do well on it. We tried. The amount he can eat is so small, he was not a happy camper.
> 
> Hopefully, the owner of Solid Gold (if she still owns it) learned her lesson about be forthright years ago. I'm hoping the same with Canidae and all other Pet food Suppliers...


Yeah, she still owns Solid Gold, from what I understand.

Kim, I think your idea about the venison for the other poster is very good, I would imagine you could get that from a butcher, right? 

Gosh, if I was up in Maine, where much of my family is, you could get your own fresh venison, practically in your yard. But, uh..not down here, LOL.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

GoldenShamus said:


> Yeah, she still owns Solid Gold, from what I understand.
> 
> Kim, I think your idea about the venison for the other poster is very good, I would imagine you could get that from a butcher, right?
> 
> Gosh, if I was up in Maine, where much of my family is, you could get your own fresh venison, practically in your yard. But, uh..not down here, LOL.


Places like Nature's Varity sells it. Maybe Bravo, too. PawsNEffect carries some of the frozen raw foods from these companies. I'm thinking I'd rather buy my own meats though. I printed out the recipe from the site Donna posted and Lisa posted the direct link to the recipe. Although I'd leave out salt and maybe a few other ingredients, I could handle making this recipe for my two. Shadow can eat beef, so it will be easy. I'll just be sure to purchase the leanest ground beef I can.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Kimm said:


> Places like Nature's Varity sells it. Maybe Bravo, too. PawsNEffect carries some of the frozen raw foods from these companies. I'm thinking I'd rather buy my own meats though. I printed out the recipe from the site Donna posted and Lisa posted the direct link to the recipe. Although I'd leave out salt and maybe a few other ingredients, I could handle making this recipe for my two. Shadow can eat beef, so it will be easy. I'll just be sure to purchase the leanest ground beef I can.


Kim,

Do you know or have you ever heard of a canine nutrionist in our area?

I'm sure I could ask my vet, but I'm not sure she'd know either.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

GoldenShamus said:


> Kim,
> 
> Do you know or have you ever heard of a canine nutrionist in our area?
> 
> I'm sure I could ask my vet, but I'm not sure she'd know either.


There is a holistic vet in Meridan and Bridgewater. Not sure about a nutritionist.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Kimm said:


> There is a holistic vet in Meridan. Not sure about a nutritionist.
> 
> I don't know anything about them, but there is a place in Mystic. If you Google, you might find someone nearby.


I googled canine nutrionists and CT and didn't come up with anything. I'm sure there must be at least one, but I couldn't find her/him...
I just emailed Stacy Alldredge, she is a canine nutrionist and dog trainer in Manhattan. I don't know how much she charges or if she would even do a phone session. But, if I were going to consider going raw, I would want professional advice. I'm just curious, so I'll see what she writes back. 

I had seen her awhile back on K9 Karma, a show on Animal Planet. She was going through Whole Foods Market and talking about the benefits of particular products for your dog, etc.


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

Delete this post....


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## GoldenShamus (Feb 26, 2007)

For anyone interested, hear is what I heard back from the Canine Nutrionist: (expensive!) I wonder if there is someone in CT that is cheaper...

Hello 

Nutritional Consults are $225. 
You can call or email the office with a credit card or mail in a check.

Stacy will provide in witting:

home made diet ingredient
raw or cooked
portions
supplements 
herbal remedies 
as well as recommend alternative procedures & therapies if needed 

what she needs:

age
breed
diagnosis 
weigh 
allergies 
medication on now & for the last two years
vaccination history 
heartworm history 
health history 
behaviors issues 
altered 
how often you want to cook 
dogs likes & dislikes (food wise) 
types of treats & bones given
how much exercise 
what makes the dog happy 
how is your dog with other dogs

plus any other questions she might have

thank you
Lynn 
www.whoswalkingwhodogtraining.com
THE DOG RUN ◊ NYC
212 414-1551/[email protected]


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