# I must be crazy



## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

I salute you!!! Single Tee you guys rock. Stay warm and dream of spring.

Holly


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

We need some videos. It sounds like Scout is really doing well... she'll have that JH and WC in the Spring at this rate!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I agree, you must be crazy


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Thanks guys! I sure hope we can get that JH in the spring (of course she may come into heat then too, blah). I can't believe we will be doing single tee, most likely within the week!

And thanks Barb, good to know I am crazy. Care to come out here and train in the snow with us? :


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

If you're not crazy you can't be a great dog trainer!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

how's she doing on casting back to either direction? weren't you going to start that, rather than letting her pick which way she turns?


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> how's she doing on casting back to either direction? weren't you going to start that, rather than letting her pick which way she turns?


Yeah we've been working on that for awhile. She does well for the most part but occasionally does the opposite. I don't feel like it is worth it to push it to perfection though.

The back casts could be tighter and more dedicated to the back pile (she is aware of the side piles and is drifting but I can call her off if she turns too wide). It is one thing I am hoping will be fixed within the next week, then I will officially start single tee. She does great leaving from my side though.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Tito still turns the wrong way once in a while, too, mostly when his head is inserted in his butt and he's not paying attention. No--nick--no tends to fix it real fast


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## winewinn (Jan 7, 2008)

That's super! Keep up the great work!


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

This morning was great for us. I extended the back pile and moved our starting point back after each retrieve. I am not sure how far out it is--I need to get some measuring tape since I am a poor judge of distance and I read that you want the single T back pile to be at 100 yards. And 100 yards is the furthest you run a dog in hunt tests, right?

Her back casts from front were nice and tight this morning--yay! But, she is having the tendency to want to go to her right (so my left cast) when I give a right back cast. So--I had to put some pressure on her and I am doing probably 2-3x more right back casts right now.

She did go to a side pile once which was not good. I probably need to extend those as I extend the back pile so that they aren't feeling a lot closer than the back pile. 

I also realized a training 'mistake' I guess you would call it. I have been putting the piles in the same place but I am wanting to make the run longer. I was backing up, but soon I will be at a fence so I decided to move the back pile back further. Well, she got hung up a little bit on where the pile used to be. Next time I train a dog I will keep the pile in the same spot and only move back. Can't do it now though, since I am about to back up to a fence but have plenty of room in front to extend the pile. Hmmmm...

Anyway, I still feel breathtakingly close to officially doing the single T with whistle sits and over casts--but have a few things to work on before I feel like I should do that. I also lost a few bumpers in the snow and have the strong desire to buy myself lots more as an early Christmas present  But then, tis the season I feel like I should not be spending money on myself : I will definitely need more if I make it to double t in the next few months....


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

sounds like she's doing great! I get cold just THINKING of training on a day like today!
100 yards is basically 100 paces, or 100 nice big strides for us gals. 
I would probably do the opposite with the side piles (but then I'm perverse by nature), I'd probably pull them in closer to teach her to work thru the suction of having the other bumpers there. As Carol Cassity says, don't hide the candy, work thru its being there. I'm "mean" to Tito, I'll put the back pile 20 yards away, and the side bumpers 3 or 4 yards away. Back means back. No matter what is to his side.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

I didn't think about paces--I can measure my pace and go from there.

Now, I totally get the make them think about it AFTER they have mastered it. I don't think it would be fair to do so now. I like the saying of Ray Hunt (horse trainer), 'you make the wrong thing difficult, and the right thing easy.' We need to make it easy.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Alrighty, for CarolinaCasey I decided to take a video today. I didn't get much because it is just not feasible to try and hold a camera, a whistle, and direct my dog, lol. She keeps me on my toes!

I have the back pile at 75 yards now and I am sending her from the apex again (for now). two side piles out at 25 yards. I will be backing up another 25 yards so she is running a full 100 soon. I must say she did very well today with two exceptions. First off, her stay in the field is not so good and I try to back up to direct her and she wants to scoot up to me. Second, she gets so amped up about going that she doesn't pay attention to which cast I am giving. I think she is right pawed because that is the direction she likes to spin and she wants to do it the second I throw my hand up without stopping to think about which one I sent her on. So we did a lot of retrieves where she had to spin the opposite direction. O

nce this is solid and I am all the way back at 100 yards I will have her stop and do over casts. I do stop her now occasionally, but not usually a max of 1-2 per session if that since I don't want her anticipating the whistle.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Just FYI but single T back pile (50 yards) is half the size of double T (100 yards).
And where is praise praise when she came back??


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

I am following Evan's book and he has single T with 100 yards back pile, with the side pile at 25 yards from the running line, and then 40 yards out.

I do praise and usually bend over and give her lots of pets but it is harder when you are holding a camera so I switched it off, got the bumper, and then loved her up


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

K9-Design said:


> Just FYI but single T back pile (50 yards) is half the size of double T (100 yards).
> And where is praise praise when she came back??


That is correct. Single & Double T are both built on a 100 yard Back pile. The Over piles can be from 25-40 yards. But whatever distance you choose to those Over piles they should all be equal. 25 yards is good. 30-40 is better.

EvanG


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Hey Evan, I don't have enough room for the 40 yard side piles diagrammed in the book--glad to hear 25 is ok though not ideal. Boy you need a lot of room to train this stuff! I can't imagine the kind of space needed for dogs running the competitive field tests....

Anyway, thought I would update today. Not sure if anyone is still reading this or cares but it feels good to write about our progress 

Scout is handling her left- and right-back casts much better. She's paying attention and turning tighter and we've almost gotten to the full 100 yards. The farther we get though, the more tempting those side piles are particularly when I start her facing me and command back. But, I've prevented her form taking from the side piles so that is good.

Today I decided to mix it up a little since I worry about doing the same drill could become boring and dull. So, we did a three-legged blind patterns and she was very nice! The only problem that we need to clear up is that she occasionally drifts a little to the left when I whistle sit. She doesn't really move forward or back more, but she does move to the side of the line which also makes the only practical back cast seem to be the right to get her back on track. (But of course, she knows where all the piles are anyway). Anyway, I think we might do this drill two more days before going back to T-work and just work on whistle sits with this set-up.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm still reading it and I care!!!!
The weather here is pretty awful, isn't it there, too???


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> I'm still reading it and I care!!!!
> The weather here is pretty awful, isn't it there, too???


No, thank goodness! All of the snow we had that I was training in earlier has melted. I haven't been in this part of Idaho for awhile, but they seem to have way more milder winters than what I am used to growing up in Woming--although they say they use to get tons of snow in the 80s...


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

drifting OT (pardon the pun) but it's NASTY here. It's about 10 degrees out with winds at 20+ mph out of the NNW, wind chills about -25 F. Blowing and drifting snow. Fun.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> drifting OT (pardon the pun) but it's NASTY here. It's about 10 degrees out with winds at 20+ mph out of the NNW, wind chills about -25 F. Blowing and drifting snow. Fun.


Ewww! I am so happy the last of our snow melted yesterday and that we've been getting rain. I honestly don't miss having lots of snow--sure it was fun as a kid when we made snow tunnels and caves, got to sled over the fence (ok, we weren't supposed to be doing these things), but it sure sucks as an adult when you have to drive in it and pay the heating bill, lol!


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

I'm still very interested. Please keep posting.


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Another day of doing 3-legged blinds. She does really well with these even though they are new. Here back casts are really good only thing now I want to clean up is her whistle sit. As I said before, she does stop but she loops so I've been looking into what to do about that.

The geese are migrating though which is just yucky. Means there is nasty goose poop all over my training field and the parks. My shoes are covered in the crap, as are the bags, my training bumpers...and yes, sometimes my dog. Didn't know goldens came in green, complete with green tongue :yuck:


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

GoldenSail said:


> Another day of doing 3-legged blinds. She does really well with these even though they are new. Here back casts are really good only thing now I want to clean up is her whistle sit. As I said before, she does stop but she loops so I've been looking into what to do about that.


So, you're developing your basic handling skills on a 3-leg lining pattern, is that correct? I ask because when I trained with the late D.L. Walters years ago that's what he did. What method are you following?

EvanG


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

what is a 3 legged blind?


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

EvanG said:


> So, you're developing your basic handling skills on a 3-leg lining pattern, is that correct? I ask because when I trained with the late D.L. Walters years ago that's what he did. What method are you following?
> 
> EvanG


Well, I am trying to follow your book. I am pretty sure it is called the 3-legged blind pattern and you had the dog doing it before the single t. I really didn't run it before doing some t stuff, but decided to go back for a few days and run it for some variety and to clean up the whistle sit. I get the impression from your book that you run this pattern off and on while doing t work, and once done with the t you extend to 100 yards. Is that correct?


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

hotel4dogs said:


> what is a 3 legged blind?


A "3-legged pattern" is actually 3 (repeat, pre-taught-type) blinds laid out in a 'pattern'. This very early Transitional drill has been around for decades, and is used to get young, basically trained dogs going on blinds. They also learn to move right or left with the handler as they progress from one blind to the next.










It's a very important drill, but one that usually outlives its usefulness quickly, as your dog transitions into cold blinds.

EvanG


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

thanks Evan, I'd heard that refered to as a 3-legged pattern, but not as a 3-legged blind, thus my confusion. I'm easily confused


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Well, the snow is gone as I mentioned but it was rainy, wet, and windy today. I almost didn't go out and train. I thought it would be good to give her a break. But, what do you do when your golden brings you their collar and leash with a big old grin on her face and tail a-waggin? You go train 

We're back on the single t and today I made the decision to whistle sit at the junction and begin teaching the over piles. I am so excited about how well she did. The whistle sit was good, I threw a bumper to the over pile (making it easy first although she knows over from mini-t) and sent her. She went right for it and brought it back. Needless to say, we had ourselves a party with fun bumpers and praise. And it wasn't just the over, the back pile send is nice to and I am sending the full 100 yards. Now, I only did the left side pile twice, and not in succession. The rest of the time she's been going back without whistle sit, but I did see a tendency to slow and stall near the apex. But this is why we train, it'll get smoothed out enough before we're done.

I love my dog!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

great job!
I can't tell you how much I admire your dedication and motivation. Seriously. You deserve an award!


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## EvanG (Apr 26, 2008)

GoldenSail said:


> Well, I am trying to follow your book. I am pretty sure it is called the 3-legged blind pattern and you had the dog doing it before the single t. I really didn't run it before doing some t stuff, but decided to go back for a few days and run it for some variety and to clean up the whistle sit. I get the impression from your book that you run this pattern off and on while doing t work, and once done with the t you extend to 100 yards. Is that correct?


Correct on all counts. You'll enter land T work when FTP is done, and it sounds like that is so. Distances begin very short, and progress sequentially in new patterns in different places. I continue to run them during the same period as Land T work, and transition away from them as T work is finished.

Then we move to Bird Boy Blinds aka BB Blinds to begin the transition into cold blinds. All of that may take place over this winter, with Water Force & Swim-by in the spring.

EvanG


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Today was just ok. She's starting to flare/pop (not sure which you would call it). I only sent her to the side pile twice yesterday and did more back piles, but still, today she is slowing around the apex and turning to look at me. Because of that I never sent her to the side piles. I sure wanted to, but I didn't want to reinforce her slowing/stopping around the apex. Once she got past the apex she was fine and picked up momentum.

It's a bummer though--worked so hard on getting her to go to drive to that back pile and now she's popping. Suggestions are welcome--I will have to reread my book and maybe do some reading on RTF to see how to address this issue. My friend told me when a dog pops the worst thing you can do is whistle sit because that reinforces the pop (i.e. I think mom's going to stop me, and sure enough, she did!). So, I have been using collar pressure (from FTP) and telling her back to get her going again. Hope this fixes it!

Another new problem has emerged. I am now having a hard time getting her to look straight out. I didn't used to have this problem and I am not sure what precipitated it, but it's not fun. She looks ahead for a fraction of a second and then start swinging her head. She's also taken up barking--argh. So, any ideas on how to work on this one would be good. I'll be looking....

So yeah, problems suck but I would rather encounter and fix them now then have them pop up well after I start cold blinds.


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## IowaGold (Nov 3, 2009)

GoldenSail said:


> It's a bummer though--worked so hard on getting her to go to drive to that back pile and now she's popping. Suggestions are welcome--I will have to reread my book and maybe do some reading on RTF to see how to address this issue. My friend told me when a dog pops the worst thing you can do is whistle sit because that reinforces the pop (i.e. I think mom's going to stop me, and sure enough, she did!). So, I have been using collar pressure (from FTP) and telling her back to get her going again. Hope this fixes it!


If you know where she's going to pop, I'd do a force en route with a verbal back before she slows to pop a few times. Then when you go back to stopping her, make sure you do quite a few more straight backs with no stop vs. casting her (and make it random).


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## GoldenSail (Dec 30, 2008)

Well, still working on the popping/flaring. I moved over a field so that my side piles are now 40 yards off the running line which seems to help. I also ran her from the apex for awhile and started backing up again. She's fine running from there, but when I back up she pops/flares at the apex. If I push her past that with a back*nick*back she'll be fine once she gets going. Those darn first 25 yards though...not sure if I need to sit on this a couple days or try something different...


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