# Ethoxyquin?? Chicken Soup for the Puppy Lover's Soul?



## Packleader (Nov 27, 2007)

I had my pups on Chicken Soup Puppy and now everyone is on adult. They all love it and it does get a good rating. I did email them when there was a thread being discussed and it did involve Diamond....so I asked them and this is what their response was. And I did get permission to cross post this.

Dear Marnie:
> 
> Thank you for your inquiry.
> 
> I can understand your concern about past recalls, but I would like to
> reassure you that many steps have been taken to prevent future problems from
> occurring. The 2005 recall affected corn containing foods, which none of the
> Chicken Soup foods contain. However, ALL incoming grains are tested for
> aflatoxin and the finished pet foods are also tested to ensure that this
> problem never occurs again. The 2007 recall that affected so many foods
> across the entire pet food industry was because of melamine and cyanuric
> acid that was put into protein ingredients. All protein ingredients are now
> screened for these two contaminants.
> 
> In addition to extensive safety checks that are performed before any pet
> food leaves the manufacturing facility, there are also numerous nutritional
> checks to ensure that the food meets the nutritional requirements for the
> pets consuming it.
> 
> Regarding your question about preservatives, Chicken Soup for the Pet
> Lover’s Soul does not add ethoxyquin to any of the formulas.
> 
> We are in the process of transitioning to the use of a naturally preserved
> fish meal. We anticipate this transition to be completed by mid-May 2010.
> 
> Fish meal is preserved with ethoxyquin on the ships prior to entering port.
> Ethoxyquin is effective at preventing rancidity in the highly volatile fish
> meal. Rancidity in ingredients can lead to severe illness. Fish meal is
> used in pet food formulas as an excellent quality source of amino acids and
> omega-3 fatty acids. Omega-3’s are vital for a strong immune system, healthy
> skin and coat, controlling inflammation and even preventing certain types of
> cancer.
> 
> Most of the ethoxyquin is destroyed in the cooking process, requiring other
> preservatives to be used. Tests for ethoxyquin are run routinely on Chicken
> Soup for the Pet Lover’s Soul products. The results are typically less than
> 2ppm. This is equivalent to 0.0002% or 2 ten-thousandth’s of a percent. This
> is a true trace level that many laboratories are unable to detect. The
> amount allowed, and considered to be safe, by the FDA is 75ppm.
> 
> Ethoxyquin is being used in scientific research as a cancer fighting
> antioxidant. When present in controlled amounts, it has never been shown to
> cause harmful effects.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Melissa Brookshire, DVM


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

That same vet gave me an almost identical email regarding my inquiry about Taste of the Wild's use of ethoxyquin. I still don't know how I feel about Diamond or TOTW.


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

I'm going to give it a try and see how it goes. I plan on rotating every couple of months, anyways, so if I find out any information that it's actually bad, then I'll just take it out of the rotation. =)


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## Packleader (Nov 27, 2007)

I feed my senior Lexus TOTW. I have a researched until I am blue in the face and for the price I have stuck with it. We have to drive an hour to get it as it is and I don't care for anything at Petco or Petsmart and certainly nothing around here. A lot of our customers at the kennel by the Chicken Soup also and have been very happy with it. I did feed Canidae but no more.


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

We gave Enzo a little bit of the new food on one plate and his usual cup of his old food on a plate and he DOVE for the Chicken Soup. We planned on changing him over slowly, but if he's doing so poorly on the "new enhanced" Blue Buffalo formula (nasty gas and pudding poops), would it hurt to just go with the new one?


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Manufacturer says it does use it

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_f...hp/product/908

its after ingredients, like third paragraph down, says it would of got 5 stars but chemical is used


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

The next two posts under that now say the manufacture guarantees it does not use ethoxyquin and the reviewers withdraw the earlier comment.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Packleader said:


> I feed my senior Lexus TOTW. I have a researched until I am blue in the face and for the price I have stuck with it. We have to drive an hour to get it as it is and I don't care for anything at Petco or Petsmart and certainly nothing around here. A lot of our customers at the kennel by the Chicken Soup also and have been very happy with it. I did feed Canidae but no more.


I know what you mean. I don't like much @ Petco/smart either. These foods are much better than a lot out there. I think that it is so difficult, not to mention confusing to choose a food. If you're happy with TOTW and Chicken Soup and are getting results- keep it up! That's terrific! My breeder also uses TOTW with a lot of success. I think I will stop myself from reading about new foods. It is just making me crazy!


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

The loophole is that they do not need to disclose ethoxyquin's use if THEY do not add it. You need to specifically ask if their suppliers do too. There is a special petition they can file to use alternative preservatives, but of course it ups the cost. Ethoxyquin was developed by Monsanto and much of the studies done were done by Monsanto.....hhhhhhmmmmm


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## Packleader (Nov 27, 2007)

I second that!!!


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

Manufacture does not use it 100% but where they get it does its the law

all your answers are in this link, after defitions it states that the us coast guard says it has to be used

cant c/p

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/dogfoods.html


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

Coast Guard now says that either that OR vitamin E has to be used.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (Oct 4, 2007)

2Retrievers222 said:


> Manufacture does not use it 100% but where they get it does its the law
> 
> all your answers are in this link, after defitions it states that the us coast guard says it has to be used
> 
> ...


 
Please see the govt link in this site. There IS a provision for using other than ethoxyquin and some food manufacturers use this option to use preservatives other than Ethoxyquin. http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/articles/more-on-ethoxyquin-preserved-fish-meals.html There is more info on the thread which was going on last night about food. http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=77200&page=4


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

it is still the law but special permits are issued 

a few Manufacturer have special permit

A few of the pet food manufacturers responses to my fish meal ethoxyquin question alluded to obtaining ‘permission’ to using tocopherols or Naturox. Upon further research, I discovered in the Electronic Code of Federal Regulations the ‘Special Permit’ page. http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...iv8&view=text&node=46:5.0.1.1.4.1.6.3&idno=46




*e-CFR Data is current as of May 19, 2010* 
​


*Title 46: Shipping*
PART 148—CARRIAGE OF SOLID HAZARDOUS MATERIALS IN BULK 
Subpart 148.04—Special Additional Requirements for Certain Material 

Browse Previous | Browse Next
*§ 148.04-9 Fishmeal or scrap, ground or pelletized; fishmeal or scrap, ground and pelletized (mixture).*

(a) The fishmeal or scrap, ground or pelletized and fishmeal or scrap, ground and pelletized mixture must contain at least 6 percent moisture by weight but not more than 12 percent moisture by weight.
(b) The material must not contain more than 18 percent fat by weight.
(c) At the time of production of the material, it must be treated with at least 400 ppm antioxidant (ethoxyquin); in the case where the material contains more than 12 percent fat by weight, it must be treated with at least 1000 ppm antioxidant (ethoxyquin) at the time of production.
(d) Shipment of the material in bulk must take place within twelve months of the date of production.
(e) The temperature of the material to be loaded must not, at the time of loading exceed 35 °C (95 °F), or 5 °F above ambient temperature, whichever is greater.
(f) The material must contain at least 100 ppm antioxidant (ethoxyquin) at the time of shipment.
(g) Each shipment of the material in bulk must be accompanied by a statement in which the shipper certifies:
(1) The moisture content of the material;
(2) The fat content of the material;
(3) The concentration of antioxidant (ethoxyquin) in the material in ppm at the time the material is loaded on a vessel in bulk;
(4) Date and place of production of the material; and
(5) The physical state of the material (ground, pelletized, or mixture).
(h) Temperature readings must be taken three times a day and recorded. If the temperature of the cargo exceeds 130 °F and continues to increase, ventilation to the hold must be restricted.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

so nice not having to worry about these things


RAW RULES LOL


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## Traz (Jan 19, 2009)

When I was looking at foods I contacted Chicken Soup people twice. They would not really give me an answer & skirted around the question. They basically said it was confidential information. Basically I thought at the time, they don't add it, but they also don't guarantee their sources don't include it.
Fromm food has it listed on their site that they do not use & their sources are free of it.


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## GoldenJoyx'stwo (Feb 25, 2007)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> The loophole is that they do not need to disclose ethoxyquin's use if THEY do not add it. You need to specifically ask if their suppliers do too.


BINGO! Loophole=Suppliers


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

I actually heard back from Chicken Soup today so I thought I'd throw this out there for anyone else who was considering this food for their dog. They said that Chicken Soup for the Pet does not/did not add any ethoxyquin to their foods.
They have acquired a supplier that has permission to use a natural
preservative with fish meal prior to entering port. All of their ocean fish
meal is now preserved with natural ingredients.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

they still never told you the suppier does not use it. Just they have permission not to.

Ask for a document or something in writing and see if they start playing a different tune. Maybe next Tuesday I will.


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

They did say it. They said their supplier has permission to use a natural preservative and that none of their (the supplier's) fish is preserved with chemicals.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

thats a little different then other post,you just said permission, not doing, you have to watch companies, they have professional liars, we have some at our company. Lie to goverment,custormer, and got caught few years ago and had to pay 1.5 million in us court

I would still like to see it in writing, price would go up if using vit E like other high end brands


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

They DID say that their suppliers aren't using it. They said that the suppliers had received permission to use natural preservatives and none of the suppliers fish are preserved with chemicals. I don't know how many other ways I have to say it so that you'll understand me.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

sorry I missed very end of your first post after permission (All of their ocean fishn meal is now preserved with natural ingredients)

They should put it on bag or change the food analysis site to get customers back

Read about raw, you might like it

mine get
beef cheek,heart,spleen,lungs, chicken necks,back, eggs,sardines, veggies, cod liver oil, vit/min


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## Enzos_Mom (Apr 8, 2010)

I'm considering going raw in the future, but I have a LOT more research to do on it to make sure that I'm giving him a balanced, complete diet.


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## 2Retrievers222 (Sep 5, 2007)

found more info 2010, I guy contacted Dr at diamond heres quote and link

Unfortunately, I’ve been unable to find anything definitive regarding just how much ethoxyquin is safe and/or how much is really in a finished dog food. I spoke with Dr. Brookshire today at Diamond Pet and I found her very helpful. But she was still unable to forward the results of any tests that confirmed her claims that ethoxyquin content is reduced to only 2 ppm.

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/red-flag-ingredients/ethoxyquin-dangerous-dog-food-additive/

 *Mike Sagman* quotes


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