# Is Acana LAMB & OKANAGAN APPLE Ok for puppies?



## Sheldon (Feb 27, 2013)

Sheldon is about 6 months, would this food be a good choice? A breeder friend gave me a weeks worth, he loves it and no scratching!!


GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude protein (min.) 25 %
Crude fat (min.) 16 %
Crude fiber (max.) 4 %
Moisture (max.) 10 %
Calcium (min.) 2.2 %
Phosphorus (min.) 1.4 %
Calcium: Phosphorus Ratio 1.6:1
Omega 6 (min) 2.5 %
 LA (min) 2.3 %
Omega 3 (min) 0.5 %
 EPA (min) 0.2 %
 DHA (min) 0.2 %
Omega 6: Omega 3 ratio 5:1
Glucosamine (min.) 700 mg/kg
Chondroitin sulfate (min.) 500 mg/kg

http://www.acana.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/LambAppleFactSheet_May252012.pdf


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## Max's Dad (Apr 23, 2012)

The Acana Lamb/Apple is probably fine for your puppy. You might check with Acana for the recommended amount to feed a puppy.


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## Vhuynh2 (Feb 13, 2012)

I personally think that formula has too much calcium for a puppy and would not feel comfortable feeding it to a growing pup. Acana Duck and Pear has a more appropriate calcium level if you're looking for a limited ingredient kibble from Acana. On the website, both foods are considered "adult". 

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## Sheldon (Feb 27, 2013)

Vhuynh2 said:


> I personally think that formula has too much calcium for a puppy and would not feel comfortable feeding it to a growing pup. Acana Duck and Pear has a more appropriate calcium level if you're looking for a limited ingredient kibble from Acana. On the website, both foods are considered "adult".
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


 Yes, that is the reason I asked as there seems to be some conflicting information on their website. Both retailers in my area tell me its an all stages formula, as well as the breeder that gave it to me. One retailer acting like I was an idiot, when I stated I saw online it was an adult formula.
*From Acana Website:* *ACANA** Lamb & Okanagan Apple* is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for *all life stages*.
Lamb & Okanagan Apple | Acana

*Also from the Acana Website: *
*Lamb & Okanagan Apple*

*For Adult Dogs of All Breeds and Sizes*

Lamb & Okanagan Apple | Acana

Maybe AAFCO has lower standards for qualifying as all stages?

I wish I could have just stayed on Dr.Tim's, but Sheldon definitely has an allergy to something in his food, he scratched non-stop.......and now I have found three other posts regarding the same topic. I was thinking it was a chicken allergy, that's why my breeder friend suggested lamb........over night all itching stopped.


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## smithfamily (Dec 17, 2012)

Personally, I also wouldn't use it because of the higher calcium level. There is some evidence that higher calcium can increase risks of joint dysplasia in large breed dogs. Many of the LBP formulas keep the calcium closer to 1%.


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## Sheldon (Feb 27, 2013)

smithfamily said:


> Personally, I also wouldn't use it because of the higher calcium level. There is some evidence that higher calcium can increase risks of joint dysplasia in large breed dogs. Many of the LBP formulas keep the calcium closer to 1%.


 Thank you for the background, could you direct me to a source, so I research this topic in more detail? I have 2 respected professionals telling me this is complete nonsense and I would like to formulate my own educated opinion using creditable sources. I have been told by these experts, to be totally confused, as the studies had poor controls and a very a limited breed sample (too narrow of physiology to be completely accurate). I will stand by and see what the brain trust has to offer. We are so lucky as a collective group to have so many experts on this board.


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## smithfamily (Dec 17, 2012)

Here is an article on it and at the bottom it lists references that you can search, I think the first one I found was the one by Dr. Richardson, which you can google. I guess I would wonder why you feel that particular food is the only option, there are lots of other non-chicken foods out there. It seems that there will always be studies that contradict one another based on how they were designed, in that case I think you have to go with the majority of findings or trust your gut. If you're fine with the possible risk or feel that it's not related then that is your choice. Much of the research I've seen on HD shows that genetics only play a part in the disease process, because of this I chose to keep the puppy on lower calcium and a leaner body. I was simply giving you my opinion based on what I had researched on the topic. I think it's good for everyone to do their own research and come up with their own conclusions. That way you can live without regrets and trust that you did the best that you could with the information you had at the time. 

http://portais.ufg.br/uploads/66/original_Racas_grandes.pdf


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## smithfamily (Dec 17, 2012)

One more thing I forgot to mention is that some people feel that the calcium amount becomes less important once the puppy hits about 6 months of age, others say that it's more like 12 months. This would be another topic to consider since you are at the 6 month mark now.


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## Sheldon (Feb 27, 2013)

smithfamily said:


> Personally, I also wouldn't use it because of the higher calcium level. There is some evidence that higher calcium can increase risks of joint dysplasia in large breed dogs. Many of the LBP formulas keep the calcium closer to 1%.


 
Thank for your help, those sources will take some time to review.I already see some inconsistencies.


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## smithfamily (Dec 17, 2012)

Unfortunately, getting access to the actual studies isn't easy, since there are various sources. You can search pubmed, but the abstracts aren't very revealing. Maybe you could ask the people who are telling you that it's nonsense to provide the studies for you? They must have something they are basing that opinion on. I know I'd be interested in seeing those.


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## MyBentley (May 5, 2009)

In 2008, AAFCO established a maximum level (dry matter basis) of 2.5% calcium for dogs.

Considering that the Acana formula in question lists 2.2% calcium as a minimum, I'd personally consider more options. My understanding is that puppies begin developing the ability to excrete excess calcium around 6 months of age, but may not be fully able to do so until at least 1 year of age.

Lamb formulas will always tend to have higher calcium levels than other meat proteins. A seafood based formula might also be an option for your dog.


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## smithfamily (Dec 17, 2012)

MyBentley said:


> In 2008, AAFCO established a maximum level (dry matter basis) of 2.5% calcium for dogs.
> 
> Considering that the Acana formula in question lists 2.2% calcium as a minimum, I'd personally consider more options. My understanding is that puppies begin developing the ability to excrete excess calcium around 6 months of age, but may not be fully able to do so until at least 1 year of age.
> 
> Lamb formulas will always tend to have higher calcium levels than other meat proteins. A seafood based formula might also be an option for your dog.


I have tried searching for the AAFCO recommendations and haven't been able to find them. I went to their website and must be missing it. I wondered if they separated out their nutritional recommendations for large breeds or do they just have a recommendation for all puppies? Do you have a link for their dog food recs?

Also, I'm hoping you (or someone) might have the answer to this, if a company only states the minimum amount of a nutrient, is there any way to figure out the max?

For instance when I was comparing calcium levels in dry foods for LBP, I found the following results:

Nutro Max LBP 1.5% max
Innova LBP 0.9% max
Pro Plan Focus LBP 1.1% min
Eukanuba LBP 0.8% min
Wellness Super5mix LBP 1.0% min
Blue Buffalo LBP 1.2%
AvoDerm LBP 1.2% min
NutriSource LBP 1%

Some of these state it's the minimum level, some say maximum and some don't specify. I was just curious to know if there is a general rule of thumb when trying to figure out minimums and maximums when they don't specify? Thanks!


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## Sheldon (Feb 27, 2013)

smithfamily said:


> I have tried searching for the AAFCO recommendations and haven't been able to find them. I went to their website and must be missing it. I wondered if they separated out their nutritional recommendations for large breeds or do they just have a recommendation for all puppies? Do you have a link for their dog food recs?
> 
> Also, I'm hoping you (or someone) might have the answer to this, if a company only states the minimum amount of a nutrient, is there any way to figure out the max?
> 
> ...


 No disrespect intended, but I thought based on the authority by which you answered my question, I assumed you has some real knowledge in this area. I think all of us here have the ability to search on the internet and dig up an old article from 2006. I really was under in the impression you were directing me to some specific information.......and not just one of the random hundred or so articles on this subject listed in the search engines.


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## smithfamily (Dec 17, 2012)

Wow! Did I claim to be an expert anywhere on here? You were asking for opinions and I gave you mine. Read the articles, look at the calcium content in puppy food, it really doesn't take a rocket scientist to review this information and come to a conclusion. If your "experts" disagree with the dog food industry, especially in regard to nutrients in LB formulas, then show us why they disagree. We all can learn from that. Is there a lot of anecdotal evidence disproving calcium as a factor in HD? I've looked for it and can't find it, but if you have that information then share it. Anecdotal reporting is often what leads to research studies, so I'm always open to reading about that. By the way, how many nutritional experts do you really think are answering questions on the GR Forum? A lot of people here have read a lot and researched a lot on their own and I find value in that. I don't take what anyone says here with any great authority, just another opinion to weigh when trying find information or guide me in further research. I really appreciate it when other members here share their thoughts on what they've learned along the way, I even get a lot out of the disagreements on the forum. Seriously I don't really care what you feed your dog, but if you don't really want opinions then don't ask for them. I told you that I wouldn't feed it to my dog and the reason why, take that with a grain of salt, just like any advice you get here! Good luck with whatever you figure out.


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## HiTideGoldens (Dec 29, 2009)

Hi all, just a quick reminder to keep this thread polite. Threads on this topic have a tendency to get very out of hand quickly, and to prevent the thread from being closed please choose your words well. Thank you!


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

Dr ofen and I both came to the conclusion in another thread that the ideal calcium for pups is about 1.5 -1.7% going no lower than 1.3 and no higher than 2.3. I wouldn't exactly consider the calcium level bad, but it seems far from ideal to me, a high quality ALS food I would be comfortable going to that ammount at his older puppy age


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## Sheldon (Feb 27, 2013)

goldenjackpuppy said:


> Hi all, just a quick reminder to keep this thread polite. Threads on this topic have a tendency to get very out of hand quickly, and to prevent the thread from being closed please choose your words well. Thank you!


 I was very respectful in my response. I think it was very obvious I was looking for some very specific information, not generalities. The "Smith Family" gave a general response, great..... but then went on to make some authoritative responses. I know there there are some very knowledgeable people on this board that have made a study of canine nutrition and I was hoping one of these posters would respond with some well known study, book or author......I guess I need to do some searches on to find these posters and address them directly. I certainly was not being impolite, it just gets old.


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## Sheldon (Feb 27, 2013)

Tuco said:


> Dr ofen and I both came to the conclusion in another thread that the ideal calcium for pups is about 1.5 -1.7% going no lower than 1.3 and no higher than 2.3. I wouldn't exactly consider the calcium level bad, but it seems far from ideal to me, a high quality ALS food I would be comfortable going to that ammount at his older puppy age
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 Thank you! Could you provide me a link to this discussion?


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## stealle (Nov 12, 2012)

Tuco said:


> Dr ofen and I both came to the conclusion in another thread that the ideal calcium for pups is about 1.5 -1.7% going no lower than 1.3 and no higher than 2.3. I wouldn't exactly consider the calcium level bad, but it seems far from ideal to me, a high quality ALS food I would be comfortable going to that ammount at his older puppy age


I personally think some people take the calcium thing to the opposite extreme. I don't think it is a good idea to try to seek out a kibble with the lowest calcium level. No, you don't want excessive calcium, but a growing dog needs an adequate calcium level to grow. I'd say Tuco's suggestion for calcium intake is right on.


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## Tuco (Jan 3, 2013)

Sheldon said:


> Thank you! Could you provide me a link to this discussion?


Il look for it when I get home.


Just a reminder to everybody, it doesn't have to be perfect, does a single person on this forum have even the remotest clue what their daily calcium intake percentage is??? No, because its not an exact science, anything within a couple percentage points is fine. That ideal percentage point varies widely depending on growth spurts, exact age, etc, no madder what you do you will never hit the sweet spot, but many foods will have an appropriate level for each stage of development and growth, hence why I like Als foods if you feed kibble


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