# SH test questions



## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I could probably find this in the rules but I'm lazy.
On the walk-up, when do you release the dog? Can you release him as soon as the bird hits the ground, or do you wait for the judge to say "dog" like on a regular mark?
Second question...the rules say a diversion bird can be thrown on a blind. Does this mean when you send the dog out for the blind, someone might throw a bird in his face??? Or do they wait until he's coming back with the blind bird? 
Thanks!


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

On a blind retrieve, a diversion can be thrown at any time. Going out or coming back. (It will not be scored as a mark, it is a test of control.)

A walk up is a test of steadiness. You may whistle sit the dog or give a verbal sit command. Wait for the Judges to call your number before sending the dog. 

With the rule change, I suspect you're going to start seeing a lot of walk up singles due to the maximum distance allowed for the walk up bird.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

That's a scary thought, they can toss a bird when he's heading out to the blind....
So does that mean they will run a double, a single, and a blind?


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> That's a scary thought, they can toss a bird when he's heading out to the blind....
> So does that mean they will run a double, a single, and a blind?


You usually have diversion shots in Senior, but they can throw a bird if they choose to do so.

With the walk up you're likely going to get an extra bird now (run as a single). Probably the scenario will go walk up in your face single as you're going to the line, then a blind, double blind, or a double marked retrieve.

I like starting with a land series double. Then a series with a walk up single followed by a double blind. Then a water series with a double and honor.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

thanks for the replies! One more bird to retrieve, Tito will like that plan


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## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> That's a scary thought, they can toss a bird when he's heading out to the blind....
> So does that mean they will run a double, a single, and a blind?


Judges' attitude in construction of the test is mportant. In the hunt tests that I have worked, I haven't been asked so far to throw an in your face bird.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

hotel4dogs said:


> I could probably find this in the rules but I'm lazy.
> On the walk-up, when do you release the dog? Can you release him as soon as the bird hits the ground, or do you wait for the judge to say "dog" like on a regular mark?
> Second question...the rules say a diversion bird can be thrown on a blind. Does this mean when you send the dog out for the blind, someone might throw a bird in his face??? Or do they wait until he's coming back with the blind bird?
> Thanks!


You release the dog when the judges say your number, just like any other marking situation! Some judges are considering doing what Swampy mentioned, and doing the walkup bird as a single, perhaps in concert with one of the other required elements. I know Win had one where we had a walk-up flyer (alleviates some concerns about inconsistent AOF with a flyer on a memory bird) and then ran the land blind. However, if it is a large entry, for the sake of efficient logistics, you could also expect to see it incorporated into one of the double marks. Personally I like an in-your-face mark like that as a test of control--is the dog really steady, and can they pull off it to see the other mark go down?

Yes, you can see a diversion either on the way in or out when it is a blind. On a mark it can only be when the dog is returning. This distinction is made because the blind is already a test of control--so continuing to handle is just a further demonstration of that control, whereas throwing it on the way out to a MARK would turn that mark into a handling test because how else are you to communicate to the dog, "not THAT mark right now"! That said, in Senior you will most likely have the diversion shot, or if it is a diversion bird, it will be on the return from either a mark or blind, as the regulations also direct judges that they are to evaluate the abilities to varying degrees appropriate in the level being tested. Personally, I would not throw a diversion bird as the dog was going out to a blind in Senior; a shot while they were working, yes, a bird thrown when the were returning, yes, as I would deem those reasonable tests of control for a Senior dog.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

What Shelly said.
All four of the SH test I ran this year had the walk-up as the land double, so the memory bird was short. I was expecting more of a HRC walk up single but didn't see one of those.
I have yet to run across a diversion bird thrown en route to a blind in master much less senior. Do NOT worry about that, seriously that would be the meanest SH judge ever. My training partner had two SH tests where they shot just a dry pop as the dog was running the land blind and it BLEW THEIR MINDS. Most commonly you will get a dry shot coming back from the marks to set up the blind, or a dry shot in the holding blind, less often an actual diversion bird thrown on the way back. 

For the walk up you are expected to KEEP WALKING until the bird IS IN THE AIR. Now that you cannot have a duck call on the walkup it will be less of a temptation for handlers to sit their dog on the duck call, which is incorrect and cheating the test (and I've seen a master handler dropped for it, last year). You can say SIT **or** blow a whistle when the BIRD IS IN THE AIR. The judges will release you just like any other marking scenario.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks for the replies. That doesn't sound toooooo bad. We did some walk-ups with the monster boy yesterday with live birds flung from a winger, about 30 yards out. He was cool with it.
I really don't think he could handle a bird being flung at him on his way out TO a blind. On his way back, he'd be fine. I'll have Dan fire some dry shots on blinds to make sure it's not a new concept if he sees that in a test.
Now if I can get past his other *issue*


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## Tatnall (May 20, 2008)

Diversion birds are not as bad as they seem. As a handler, when you here the winger snap or see the bird boy move, give you dog a sit whistle. That way he will be turning to see why you are bothering him and may not even see the bird. If you are asked to pick that bird up, you can handle with no penalty as it is not a mark.

On walkups, you can use either the voice or the whistle. It is personal preference, but I prefer to say "sit" in the tone that means the heeling stick is coming. Personally, I think it is a great opportunity if you have a creeper or breaker since you get to say sit when the bird is in the air, which you can't do when the judges just throw a breaking test at you while at the line.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

This will no doubt come back to bite me in the butt, but steadiness is one of Tito's lesser issues. We throw a lot of diversion birds at him when he's returning from marks, and he's okay with it, even when he's carrying a dead bird and we toss out a live, shackled bird. I'm more worried about ME blowing the test by doing something wrong, like sending him as soon as the bird hits the ground!


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## Radarsdad (Apr 18, 2011)

They will time your release so watch for it.


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## Swampcollie (Sep 6, 2007)

I suspected the rule changes regarding the walk-up was coming down the pipe when the AKC did the Advanced Seminar up here a couple of years ago. They made it a point to drive home the concept that the purpose of a walk-up was to test control (Trainability).

The AKC Field Reps designed the tests for the seminar and they made it a point to not incorporate the walk up bird into the marks, and they did have good reasons for running the walk up separate. First, you don't want to dumb down the marking portion of the test by giving the dog an easy gimmee bird that doesn't test marking or memory. Second, if you incorpororate the walk up into the marks and you have a 90 yard memory bird (as most have done) being used for the walk-up, you've really defeated the purpose of doing a walk-up because there isn't much temptation for the dog at that distance. 

Yes, you could have better luck incorporating a short memory bird into a master test where you're dealing with three or four birds by design, but in a senior test you only have a double, and you don't want to cheapen the value of the marking portion of the test just to incorporate the walk-up. (Marking is of Primary Importance)

In the seminar, adding the extra single bird didn't really add much time (less than thirty seconds). The real concern for adding the extra bird was the extra body needed and equipment to run the station.


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