# Max showing separation anxiety symptoms



## cubbysan (Mar 13, 2007)

I am not knowledgable enough to give you advice. I would like to bump this so one of the trainers can see it.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

This does sound like a problem! This dog sounds smart! It doesn't sound like you've had the crate long enough for him to view it as a secure sancuary. I'm sure you'll get some help on this...I've no experience with it and would hate to offer guesses.


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## nGoldenm (Jan 17, 2007)

cubbysan said:


> I am not knowledgable enough to give you advice. I would like to bump this so one of the trainers can see it.


I subscribed to this thread and set the notification to instant. No idea why I didn't actually get an email about your response. Anyway, thanks for the bump. I appreciate it.



Lucky's Mom said:


> This does sound like a problem! This dog sounds smart! It doesn't sound like you've had the crate long enough for him to view it as a secure sancuary. I'm sure you'll get some help on this...I've no experience with it and would hate to offer guesses.


Yes he is pretty smart. I have to stay one step ahead of him or I will be outwitted. But yes, you're correct. I have not had the crate very long at all. I just bought it this last Friday (he had the command "kennel" down perfectly by that night). He really appears to like it though. I have left the door open on it all the time, except for the couple of times that I had to leave to go somewhere. He goes in there on his own accord all during the day and goes to sleep. No problems then. The problems come when I leave. I tried a little experiment earlier today. I moved the crate to a room that was out of sight from me (when he is in it he could not see me). I got the same reaction as when I leave entirely. Drooling, barking, and hysterical digging. And not the good kind of hysterical. I mean like panic stricken, maniacal digging.

Eventually he calmed a little and laid down, only to get back up about 5-10 minutes later for another round.

Any help that anyone can give would be much appreciated. Thanks.

EDIT: Forgot to add a detail. I can put him in there, shut and lock the door while I am in the same room and he whines for a second and then he just lays down and is absolutely fine thereafter.


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## nGoldenm (Jan 17, 2007)

Bumpity bump. Anybody got any advice?


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## mdoats (Jun 7, 2007)

I haven't had this problem with Rookie, but I did see an episode about this on It's Me or the Dog on BBCTV. Does that count?!  Here's what they did.

The dog would tear the house apart every time the owners left. So the trainer had the owners put their coats on, grab their keys and bags and walk out of the house. Then turn around and come right back in. They would repeat this 10 or 12 times. The dog stopped cuing in to the fact that they were leaving for an extended period of time. This particular dog would also get into the fridge and steal food. (European under the counter fridge, not big American fridge) They set an alarm on the fridge and the dog stopped getting into the fridge pretty quick.

So... here's what I would do if I were you. Put the dog in the crate, get up and walk out of the room, turn around come back in and sit down immediately. Do that a bunch of times. Let the dog out of the crate. Put the dog back in the crate, get up and walk out of the room, stay out of the room for 30 seconds, turn around and come right back in. Staying out of the room longer each time. 

Again... big disclaimer... I am not a trainer nor do I play one on TV. This is just what I would try in your situation based on what I have seen.


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## nGoldenm (Jan 17, 2007)

Yeah, I started trying to do that. I also saw that episode. But so far it doesn't seem to work. I've tried it multiple times. The moment I go out of his site he begins the digging reaction.


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

what if you sit in the next room and talk to him to ensure youre still there? then eventually use a recording when you do actually leave...?? and just keep working from there?

could you hire a private trainer to help you or evaluate his behavior? maybe a trainer would be able to notice something that you could be missing?


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## nGoldenm (Jan 17, 2007)

I might could try that. I haven't thought of that. Thanks for the idea!


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## foreveramber (Feb 25, 2007)

i wonder if he knows that if he digs and goes crazy that you will come back and rescue him. is it possible to just leave him in there and not rescue him until he stops? what if you left the room and listened until he stops digging, then immediately run in and let him out? he would then learn that when he stops digging, you come back. same mentality as crate training a puppy. im not expert, but i wonder if that would work. i know in the book "marley and me" that marley would actually hurt himself, and make himself bleed...would your dog hurt himself if you DID just leave him in there until he stops?


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## Oaklys Dad (Dec 28, 2005)

Wow you are really going through the wringer on this one. Sounds like you have already gone through any advice I might have offered. Leah gave you some ideas to try. You might also, over a weekend say, try using the crate in very small doses. The other thing that comes to mind is to work on some basic obedience so the dog learns to respect you as the leader. Just a thought. Please keep us posted.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

Do what mdoats suggested. That's how most people do crate training!! Good luck! I hope he finally settles down!


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## nGoldenm (Jan 17, 2007)

foreveramber said:


> i wonder if he knows that if he digs and goes crazy that you will come back and rescue him. is it possible to just leave him in there and not rescue him until he stops? what if you left the room and listened until he stops digging, then immediately run in and let him out? he would then learn that when he stops digging, you come back. same mentality as crate training a puppy. im not expert, but i wonder if that would work. i know in the book "marley and me" that marley would actually hurt himself, and make himself bleed...would your dog hurt himself if you DID just leave him in there until he stops?


That is very possible. As I said, he's smarter then me some of the time. I do no believe that he would hurt himself. Now that I have looked at it closer, he's not really digging perse but he seems to pull everything in the crate to him. It seems like he is using it as a coping method. I have tried the go away and listen til he stops digging thing. He does eventually stop for a few seconds and actually lays down. But then he's right back up and going at it again.



Oaklys Dad said:


> Wow you are really going through the wringer on this one. Sounds like you have already gone through any advice I might have offered. Leah gave you some ideas to try. You might also, over a weekend say, try using the crate in very small doses. The other thing that comes to mind is to work on some basic obedience so the dog learns to respect you as the leader. Just a thought. Please keep us posted.


That's when I plan on trying to tackle this. As far as Obedience training goes, he's pretty well trained already. I've done a lot of training with him throughout the time that I have him. He seems to respect me fully. I don't believe this is a question of does he respect me, it's a question of can he learn to be left alone in the crate. I think that the issue is he doesn't like to be left alone and it stresses him out. 


I forgot to add this symptom: drooling and panting. He pants continuously and drools. The pan in the bottom of the crate is usually coated after only a short stay in it.


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

I have a severe SA dog who has gone through a window. He is absolutely fine now (and has been for years).

Here are some things that helped him:

Time, mostly, and age
Hard exercise before leaving, to the point of utter and complete exhaustion. For him, a Whippet, just a mile or two of walking would do that, as they are a low energy breed. For a Golden, it may take four or five miles of walking plus a good hard game of fetch or a long off leash run in the woods. But make him so tired he just wants to sleep.
Put the crate in a pitch dark room with some white noise like a fan and maybe some music.
Ignore him. Never ever enter the room or even notice him unless he is quiet. If, like me, you have neighbors, this obviously isn't an option. This complicates matters greatly. 
Try phasing out. How far can you get before he starts barking? (Ten feet away in the same room? Out of the room but with your hand waving around the door where he can see it?) Find that magic spot and build from there. If he starts to flip, run in and say NO!!!!!!!!!! SHHH! Then pop back into hiding for a second, if he's quiet, let him out!
Try the exercise...


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

We have had a couple rescue dogs like this ...our trainer uses a plastic crate and if the barking doesnt stop he has used a bark collar on them....


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## nGoldenm (Jan 17, 2007)

I just wanted to post something that I found very interesting. My girlfriend and I both climbed into Max's kennel and shut the door. So we were on the inside where he could not get to us. He showed almost the exact same symptoms as when he is the one shut in there. What is everyone's thoughts on this?


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

he is frantic about being apart from you, in either case


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## bizzy (Mar 30, 2007)

In obediance you might try out of sight stays as a building confidence exersize. I agree lots of exersice. Also I think the leave the room and wait till that calm moment comes and then come back and reward.
Also as just an idea get a somwhat tired but HUNGRY dog. Put him in the crate. Give a treat, walk a few feet away walk back and treat, go in different direction and back and treat, walk out of the room and right back in and treat, keep building keeping thinks sucessful. You can also do the same with stays. Good luck


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