# How much is too much?



## Jleway (Mar 15, 2010)

I am looking to buy a second Golden. I have found a breeder that I like and there is one pup available. This pup, supposedly, has a pedigree of puppy gods because the breeder is asking $2,500 dollars for him. I am looking for a pup to enter into conformation shows. Lady is my obedience girl, but I'm not sure if she would really get anywhere in conformation. 

Is $2,500 dollars for a puppy too much? How much is too much for a Golden Retriever puppy? I am not a breeder and I really don't know. I need some serious advice, thanks.


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## Emma&Tilly (May 15, 2005)

Well I am from the UK so it is hard to comment...I just converted that to over £1600...which is CRAZY money for a golden retriever! I think, in this country at least, we have quite a stable pricing of pedigree dogs (apart from the designer crossbreeds of course!) Even the offspring of a dog that has done very well in the show ring could only fetch so much! Over here the price caps at about £650/700 ($900 ish) and that would be for a very nice pup. Going much higher than that and I doubt people would pay...people aint daft!


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## Jax's Mom (Oct 16, 2009)

I am in NYC, and 1800 is about the average, but you are talking a conformation pup, which may explain the difference. I am sure that someone else with more experience in conformation will come along and help. Where are you located...that might be good for people to know.


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

It seems like a lot to me, but it also depends on where you live and the parents of the litter. You said there is one puppy left-was this puppy purposely held back, waiting for a conformation home? In a litter of 10 carefully bred puppies, with at least one and preferably both parents finished AKC champions, with pedigrees on both sides full of champions, you typically will get 2-4 show potential puppies. The rest will be wonderful (and beautiful) pets.

If the parents are proven producers of titled dogs, even have OS/OD titles from the GRCA (Outstanding Sire/Outstanding Dam), the price is likely to be higher. If the sire is dead and the litter is from frozen semen, the price can also be higher.

Does the breeder show his/her dogs in AKC shows? Who determined the puppy was show potential?


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## HeatherRenee (Jun 9, 2010)

we paid $1500 for our American English.


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## Mighty Casey and Samson's Mom (Jul 16, 2008)

My new puppy Samson is a conformation quality puppy (parent/grandparent went to Crufts). Our breeder wants to show and breed him. I paid $1100 CDN for him, which is a bit more than the $900-$1000 average price around here. I think the price quoted to you is way out of line.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

I think if the dog had proven titled championship parents and grandparents then maybe and depending on where you live. But if the pup is so great is there a reason that they are not going to show him themselves?


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

I have just paid £700 for my puppy but I know that some breeders are selling for £800 or more in the UK. That is for a Ch sired puppy out of a champion sired bitch that has rarely been shown but her sister won a Reserve CC. The grandsire that went to Crufts- did he win anything? Just curious! Annef


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Two questions...

1. Where in the US are you?

2. Was the puppy tested? 

The reason why I ask is I think there are some breeders out there who charge more if you want full registration. And that's about what you are paying extra for. <- I seriously don't think this is worth a thousand extra. 

The other thing is you can expect to pay more for a puppy in an area where the breeders costs are higher. $2500 seems like a TON to me, but then I noticed that some really good breeders out east are $1500+. 

Personally speaking, I would not spend more than $1500. And even that is very high for me to afford without saving up for a couple years. Because sometimes there are a lot of bills in the first couple years... and that doesn't include dog class costs...


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## Jleway (Mar 15, 2010)

I live in the Mid-West, but the breeder is located in the South-East. Yes, the breeder does show their dogs. The pedigree is great, but I don't know if $2,500 is a fair amount. 

I don't know if the pup was tested. What do you mean by tested? OFA? CERF? This pup is only 8-10 weeks old. 

Do you think this breeder is trying to take advantage of me by charging an extra $1000 for full registration? 

Do you all think that I should find another breeder? If so, does anyone know of a great breeder that would be willing to sell me a conformation pup with full registration in the Illinois, Indiana, Ohio area.


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## Lennap (Jul 9, 2010)

In my opinion too much is when you don't have money left to cover food and veterinary expenses. What is included in the $2,500? Does it include shipping? The crate? The health certificate? At what age will you be getting this pup (if older then more shots)?

There are so many variables here it 's just not a fair question. So I go back to saying too much is simply defined by when you don't have enough for the upkeep, maintenance and emergencies.

Good luck to you.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

If the breeder is charging an extra $1000 for breeding rights run away! For one thing, you have no idea if the dog is going to be good enough to breed at this point. Typically good breeders who have show potential pups who are selling to newbies (in the breed ring) will do a co-ownership and give full ownership to the buyer after the buyer has met certain requirements, i.e. a championship, full clearances, or proof of neuter if the dog does not get the championship of the clearances.


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## Jleway (Mar 15, 2010)

No it does not include shipping. I would have to drive there to pick the pup up. No it doesn't include a heath certificate to my knowledge. 

I've got the message... I should run away. Right? 

Does anyone know of a great breeder in the Illinois, Indiana, Ohio area?


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I assume you are looking for a dog that would be competitive in the breed ring?

Go to a couple of shows, get the catalog and watch the goldens in the ring. Find dogs that you like the looks of and talk to the person handling those dogs, be considerate though and realize they are probably very busy and may not be able to talk to you at any length.

I am sure that good breeders would be much happier to consider selling a show prospect to someone who likes their dogs in particular rather than just wants a show prospect. Be warned though, it is tough as a newbie to get a good show prospect. Breeders get very few really good pups and they are likely to keep them theirselves or give them to people who have a track record showing dogs in the breed ring.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Exactly what Carolyn said above.  

A while back I made the newbie mistake when interviewing breeders... in saying I wanted a show puppy. Not because I wanted to show conformation, but I wanted a golden who could go into the conformation ring if I wanted to. I'm embarrassed admitting this, but I was thinking that it was that simple. #o_o#

Then I found out that the really good breeders like to screen people before they sell a puppy with full registration. And they can be very picky. 

One breeder I'm thinking about is Shilo (Shiloh?) in Ohio.  

By testing... I was thinking about how some breeders have somebody come in and look over the puppies to pick out show prospects.


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## iansgran (May 29, 2010)

There are a number of excellent breeders in IN, Ill, Ohio. Where do you live and when do you want a puppy?


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

One of Cosmo's brother's is going into the show-ring and he was the same price as Cosmo ($1200) and is being co-owned. Maybe co-ownership is a good place to start?


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## Tahnee GR (Aug 26, 2006)

Honestly, there just isn't enough information to tell you whether it's too much or not-we can't really say without knowing the breeder, the pedigree, the conditions of the contract, what the evaluation of the puppy was (structure and temperament) and what the other puppies in the litter were like.


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## Jleway (Mar 15, 2010)

I don't want to name the breeder and give the pedigree, in hopes to keep the breeder anonymous as to respect this breeder. 

This pup has two championship parents. He also has great grand-parents, and great great grand-parents that are extremely notable (Rush Hill's Kirby). 

My parents use to show Miniature Schnauzers in the obedience ring. My grandpa and aunt showed Schnauzers in conformation and obedience. They made quite a name for themselves around 30 years ago. I might be a new participant, but my family isn't new to the show world at all. I am going to a dog show tomorrow and on Saturday. I'm really excited about it. 

It makes me nervous to buy a pup with co-ownership. Maybe, because I don't really know that much about it. What does co-ownership entail? 

Where did Cosmo come from Jackie? He is a beauty. 

I live in Central Indiana, if that helps. I was also hoping to get the pup some time around Christmas or after the new year.

Thank you all for your help.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Jleway said:


> I live in the Mid-West, but the breeder is located in the South-East. Yes, the breeder does show their dogs. The pedigree is great, but I don't know if $2,500 is a fair amount.
> 
> I don't know if the pup was tested. What do you mean by tested? OFA? CERF? This pup is only 8-10 weeks old.
> 
> ...


I do think the amount is high. Not being a breeder but how can they know at 8-10 weeks that this dog would be show quality? What they mean by tested is there are people that are qualified to look at the pups to see if they would be good show dogs. Most breeders will not sell a dog on a full registration to someone they dont know just because they say they want to show unless they are going to be co-owner from what I have read here on the forum. It is too much of a risk for them to know if that dog will be bred or not. I would want to see that the parents have the clearances of the eyes, elbows, hips and heart for parents and several generations back. And to see the championships on the dogs too. 

I think that if you dont feel comfortable listing the breeder here, but you have questions, you can pm me and I can look up here on the forum to see if there is any threads about them in the past. And pm you the information.


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## jackie_hubert (Jun 2, 2010)

Jleway said:


> Where did Cosmo come from Jackie? He is a beauty.


Thanks! Golden people we meet are always surprised we're not showing him. He is from here in BC, so definitely not where you are. He's a Redgold puppy. There are a couple of other ones here on the forum occassionally. Good luck with your search!


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

It sounds high to me.

Gilmour comes from two very respected lines, and he was only $1200.

When I was shopping the highest prices were quoted by the high-volume breeders that ended up in the not recommended column. The only dogs that were over 2 grand were ALL from high volume breeders.



Jleway said:


> I am looking to buy a second Golden. I have found a breeder that I like and there is one pup available. This pup, supposedly, has a pedigree of puppy gods because the breeder is asking $2,500 dollars for him. I am looking for a pup to enter into conformation shows. Lady is my obedience girl, but I'm not sure if she would really get anywhere in conformation.
> 
> Is $2,500 dollars for a puppy too much? How much is too much for a Golden Retriever puppy? I am not a breeder and I really don't know. I need some serious advice, thanks.


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## NuttinButGoldens (Jan 10, 2009)

Not only that, but pups sold by reputable breeders for the purpose of show or breeding usually require part ownership in the dog. I'm not sure how that all works, but I remember this coming up when I discussed Gilmour with his breeder.



Megora said:


> Exactly what Carolyn said above.
> 
> A while back I made the newbie mistake when interviewing breeders... in saying I wanted a show puppy. Not because I wanted to show conformation, but I wanted a golden who could go into the conformation ring if I wanted to. I'm embarrassed admitting this, but I was thinking that it was that simple. #o_o#
> 
> ...


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Unfortunately you are still a newbie, regardless of what your aunt and grandfather did. I have a friend who had a Golden with agility titles and a Canadian championship. She also had a close friendship with a major player in the Golden world. When she went to one of the biggest show line kennels, she had to purchase with a co-ownership because she did not have a history in the Golden breed ring. 

Co-ownerships are very common, at least in my experience, in the show arena. The exact details of the arrangement differs according to the breeder, but generally they are a way for the breeder to control the future breeding of the pup. As a co-owner, the breeder can say yes or no to any potential breeding of the dog (if the future pups are to be registered). Some breeders will sign full ownership over to the purchaser after certain conditions, like a championship and clearances, are obtained. Some breeders will keep partial ownership the whole of the dogs life and work with the purchaser on issues of breeding. Sometimes it works out wonderfully, sometimes there are problems. You need to find a breeder you can trust and with whom you can form a great working relationship. It is a lot of work, but so is successfully showing a Golden in the breed ring.


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## Jleway (Mar 15, 2010)

Thank you for spelling out for me what co-ownership means. The term is very confusing, one like me who is a newbie sees the "co" in the ownership and fears that they can take your dog with no questions asked. Can they take your dog with no questions asked? 

I went to the show today and just missed the Golden action, but I am returning for another show to take place there tomorrow. Hopefully I can find a great breeder at the show who is willing to take me under their wing, and yes... I will wait till I know that he or she or they are not busy with the show; to be respectful to them. 

I have definitely decided to not go with the purchase of the $2500 pup. The parents do have the eye, hip, heart, and I think even elbow clearances, but nevertheless I have to be honest... I cannot afford it. 

What do you all know about general prices of show pups in the Indiana/Ohio area? Can any of you refer me to a breeder that you all know to be great and willing to teach a newbie? I am still going to do some research at the show tomorrow, but to me it is not all about "looks" it is also about the temperament of the dogs and the health of the dog, as well as the willingness of a pro to teach a newbie. Is this the attitude that I should possess?

Thanks for all of your continuing help and advice. You guys on this forum are great!


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Any rights the breeder would have would need to be spelled out in the contract. Once again it is all about the relationship you have with that breeder. If you take good are of the dog, I do not think most breeders would have any desire to take the puppy or older dog back. They may require you to actually show the dog, but most likely any requirement to show would be determined on how the puppy turns out. There will undoubtedly be requirements about breeding the dog. 

I do think your best bet is to go to the show, introduce yourself to breeders see which ones seem friendly. Go to a local Golden Retriever club meeting and talk to people and find someone you click with. Are you a member of a training club? People who train in obedience and agility are often the same people who show in breed or can give you advice on show kennels.


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## Jleway (Mar 15, 2010)

Thanks for your advice Selli-Belle. I had a great time at the show today. I received a great amount of advice and talked to many breeders that live nearby. When I have narrowed my search, I will start a new thread... possibly a thread asking about their reputation and if you all have any opinions of them. 

Thanks
Jleway


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

HeatherRenee said:


> we paid $1500 for our American English.


What's an American English?


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## julliams (Oct 27, 2010)

I am guessing that this pup would not be a limited register pup? That you could have full registration? I would think that this would be the reason. Maybe it was the pup they would like to keep for themselves but have to sell for financial reasons and so this is the only price they will take for it? Does the breeder have a website? I came across one the other day that had pups for this exact pricing.

I am paying $1400 AUD for our pup which is high for Australia ( I think) and our pup will be on the limited register. We also get a few things with that like collar, lead and a few other bits and pieces.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I think 2,500 would be reasonable for a not- co-owned show pick puppy from two of the country's top golden specials or field trial dogs etc. If it was a pedigree you researched and loved, you had all the pups' litter evaluations in hand done by knowledgable breeders/handlers/ AKC judges, and you trusted the breeder, then maybe. However, pups of that description usually only go to experiences show homes. 2,500 for a nice puppy who might or might not be show quality - not for me. 1,800 -2,000 is about my limit, personally, for a show puppy- 1,400-1,800 for a pet puppy.


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