# Looking for a Top OB Breeder



## Rainheart (Nov 28, 2010)

I think Gaylans would be a great choice!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Sunfire Goldens 

ETA: If your friend truly understands what is involved in a high drive, performance golden; they are not quite like say a GSD.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

She should also check out Trowsnest and Watersedge in NH. Both breed typey, versatile dogs.


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## drloripalooza (Jan 7, 2012)

Sunrise, she is very knowledgeable about many breeds in detail -- but is still developing Golden "connections." Could you expound? 

She is a good owner trainer, but knows much more about GSD, Doberman, Am. Cocker, Giant Schnauzer lines, etc. Her Cocker is quite fieldy and has tons of bird drive. She wants a Golden specifically for OB, and wants to work toward a UDX.


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## drloripalooza (Jan 7, 2012)

I am also looking specifically for OB champs and lineages for her. My friend wants a Golden specifically for a OB and a UDX or above. She is a good OB owner-trainer, understands sensitive, drivey dogs through her Am Cocker who is very bird driven, and has several OB mentors. She would however like a harder Golden. I had one of these, but he was more of a field type and BYB unfortunately.

She has owned Dobermans, GSDs, Am Cockers, Giant Schnauzers and worked extensively fostering and placing various breeds dogs and puppies, so she has a lot of breed knowledge. She is interested in OB lines. I am also interested in OB lines myself, although just a novice, but I prefer a fieldy type, that's what I am used to. She understand positive reinforcement negative punishment training, more traditional training for proofing, as well as training through drive (not Behan style).


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

If she is looking for the bench (show) type golden, I'm not sure some of the breeders suggested are going to be what she's looking for.
Take a look at Docmar goldens (Jane) DocMar Goldens - Golden Retrievers & Havanese -  Duluth MN , some of her recent breedings have been just phenomenal in terms of looks, brains, and trainability. Jane will be glad to work with your friend to pick the right puppy for high level obedience.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

I know another good litter coming up... But will have to post later. But, have her look at these two litters (one I think is in vermont).

Breeding Plans - www.cinnameggoldens.com


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

hotel4dogs said:


> If she is looking for the bench (show) type golden, I'm not sure some of the breeders suggested are going to be what she's looking for.
> Take a look at Docmar goldens (Jane) DocMar Goldens - Golden Retrievers & Havanese -* Duluth MN , some of her recent breedings have been just phenomenal in terms of looks, brains, and trainability. Jane will be glad to work with your friend to pick the right puppy for high level obedience.


I second this. Love Jane. Also Judy Super with westmarch Goldens


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## drloripalooza (Jan 7, 2012)

Well, I will say that the colour does not matter as much as the "block" head to her. She is not planning on conformation showing.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

It sounds like your friend is already knowledgeable about Obedience so she may already be familiar with the following. . . If you look at the AKC lists of the top 25 Goldens for the last 3 yrs. National Obedience Invitational and the 2013 Natl. Obed. Championship I don't think there's a single dog which is also a show champion. I've only recently become interested in competition obedience so I'm not an expert but from what I've seen you have to decide whether your priority is serious competition or having a show type Golden. Some of the names that come up multiple times on the NOC and NOI lists are: Gaylans, Goldenloch, High Times, Spirit's, Sunfire, Tanbark, and Topbrass.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

While I don't disagree, there are some performance breeders who care more about structure and/or looks than others do. Some of the ones you listed have some very "fieldy" looking dogs, while others may be more likely to have the head style she is looking for.
There have been 281 CH/UD or higher goldens.
Here's an interesting page to browse, just kind of fun to read thru:
Top Producing Golden Retriever Sires and Dams



TheZ's said:


> It sounds like your friend is already knowledgeable about Obedience so she may already be familiar with the following. . . If you look at the AKC lists of the top 25 Goldens for the last 3 yrs. National Obedience Invitational and the 2013 Natl. Obed. Championship I don't think there's a single dog which is also a show champion. I've only recently become interested in competition obedience so I'm not an expert but from what I've seen you have to decide whether your priority is serious competition or having a show type Golden. Some of the names that come up multiple times on the NOC and NOI lists are: Gaylans, Goldenloch, High Times, Spirit's, Sunfire, Tanbark, and Topbrass.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Just my personal opinion of course, but I think this is the best bitch in the country right now (I know, a little OT):

Pedigree: CH-OTCH,Can CH DocMar Westmarch Denim Jeans UDX2,OM5,RE,AX,AXJ,JH,WC,VCX,OBHF,BISS


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

hotel4dogs said:


> Just my personal opinion of course, but I think this is the best bitch in the country right now (I know, a little OT):
> 
> Pedigree: CH-OTCH,Can CH DocMar Westmarch Denim Jeans UDX2,OM5,RE,AX,AXJ,JH,WC,VCX,OBHF,BISS


Yep, and the owner of deni, judy super, is very nice and honest. She was bred to Brogan (the litters I posted earlier) and that was a nice litter. Judy is very into obedience, but has beautiful dogs as well


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## drloripalooza (Jan 7, 2012)

Beautiful dogs, thanks for your help, all of you. I really appreciate it. I love the Canadian dogs, I will say. Personally, Adirondac is one of my favorite breeders, but they don't have the look she wants. I love "Push" of course. And I was also looking seriously at Tanbark. Keep 'em coming. The lists of champions are VERY helpful.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> Just my personal opinion of course, but I think this is the best bitch in the country right now (I know, a little OT):
> 
> Pedigree: CH-OTCH,Can CH DocMar Westmarch Denim Jeans UDX2,OM5,RE,AX,AXJ,JH,WC,VCX,OBHF,BISS



Wow! She is really impressive and very nice looking.


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## drloripalooza (Jan 7, 2012)

I would also appreciate if any of you with Obedience Goldens would give me some information on your breeders and lines, as I am also looking into a Golden for OB and perhaps agility and dock diving. I can also travel. I am looking into Adirondac -- I'd love a "Push" grandson, of course, and I prefer reds. I can travel througout the US and Canada. I prefer a very drivy golden, able to exercise and care for him well. Had one in the past, but oddly from a BYB in FL. TIA


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

You also might want to take a look at this guy and see what the breeding plans are for him. I believe there is something cooking now. Zaniri produces working Goldens.
Puzzle - Tucker Golden Retrievers


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I think I may add that I have described my Golden Selli (a Meadowpond) and the Goldens produced by Kathy Cox (Torwood) and Linda Douglas (Starburst) to the person in question and she has replied that she is more interested in a significantly harder and more challenging dog then these lines but still wants something that is is handsome in a show dog sense. 

The last I heard, she really liked the idea of Topbrass (and liked the idea of Jackie Merten) and was more interested in lines that combined Show/Field lines than one that was Show/Performance lines or I would have touted kennels like Mirasol.


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## drloripalooza (Jan 7, 2012)

Yes, we are talking about the same person, Selii Belle, and I know she is looking for a harder Golden! Just like my Holmes was. However, she's going to have to adapt to what a "hard" Golden with good nerves is, and I think she really does understand that, despite her background in German dogs. After all, she has two Cockers and eventually wants an Irish Setter for conformation. I think Gaylans would produce a dog she wanted and i heard the breeder support is good, but there are a lot of nice Canadian dogs AFAIK. She is very interested in TopBrass, but I did want to give her some other options.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I am not trying to be difficult, I am just adding information so that the other members have a bit more of a feel for what she is looking or not looking for.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Check out zaniri.com


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> Just my personal opinion of course, but I think this is the best bitch in the country right now (I know, a little OT):
> 
> Pedigree: CH-OTCH,Can CH DocMar Westmarch Denim Jeans UDX2,OM5,RE,AX,AXJ,JH,WC,VCX,OBHF,BISS


Yes, she is a fabulous girl!! Very beautiful worker, mover, and to look at. Too bad she is spayed.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

When I think of the really good obedience Goldens that have the conformation look, NONE come to mind that are known for their drive. They are happy, accurate workers, but not high drive. She'll really need to look around to find a dog that she likes and look into those lines


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Oops, looking back, you didn't specify high drive. I saw the word several times in the thread but and I guess it stuck in my head. So never mind.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I think Apollo makes very handsome kids, and I don't know any that are known for being "soft." If interested you could ask Pat if there's any plans to use him.

Pedigree: OTCH MACH Sunfire's Undeniable VCD3 UDX RAE TDX MH MXC MJB WCX OBHF ADHF ** OS


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

I kinda have a question - and it may have been addressed already earlier in the thread, but how involved is this person with competition in her area? Does she train with other golden retriever owners whose dogs have high drive? Does she have a good idea of what she's looking for? Does she have an idea of how to train them or is she going to tackle it just like she would train any other breed? 

Those breeders that Selli-Belle mentioned - Kathy Cox and Linda Brady - their dogs that I've seen are VERY GOOD and VERY DRIVEN. I don't know how well they'd do in the conformation ring, but they are very pretty and "look like goldens". I was raving in a previous thread about a young golden that Kathy and Linda bred. I guess this whole litter was pretty good, but this little boy especially was awesome. 

There is a huge difference between those goldens, and sometimes what Gaylans breeds? I've seen some Gaylan goldens who really aren't that pretty or even that much of a natural for obedience. <- Some of that has to do with their maturity level. 

Same thing with Topbrass - and actually talking with Bertie's breeder about Topbrass, I know that she said that the hardest headed golden she ever trained for obedience (I think she got a UDX on him or her) was a Topbrass. This dog didn't want to work for her - that's what "hard headed" to her meant. .

So in this context, I'm really confused about what "hard" means too. What does that mean to your friend? What kind of challenge is she looking for?

ETA - Did you/your friend look into High Times type goldens?


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Is Colabaugh still in business? Their dogs often have had titles at either end of their names. Golly G comes to mind as well.


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## sterregold (Dec 9, 2009)

Zaniri has a very nice litter due very soon! Another to check out would be Morninglo, Glenda Manucy down south. Further north in NE, Sanddancer (Rhonda Mulholland) could also be a good option if she likes darker dogs--there is a fair bit of field in the pedigrees, but the dogs are still very handsome. I have longer range plans for a breeding of my younger, fieldier girl to a Trowsnest boy with more conformation in his background, but that will likely not be until next fall. I would like to get her SH first.


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## drloripalooza (Jan 7, 2012)

She is a very good owner-trainer. She prefers to get a puppy 10-12 weeks old. She is experienced in Reinforcement plus, Pos negative training, as well as drive training, and pos punishment only for proofing and precision. I'm not sure how high she has gone in obedience, but she is attempting to develop a network of Golden OB breeders and trainers. She is not interested in conformation with a Golden puppy, but thinks one would be great for higher OB, and I have ultimate faith in her. She does not want to be involved in hunting at all. She wants a high drive, assertive, good-nerved dog. I know they exist, I've owned one myself. Feathers and a blockhead would be a plus, but they are not a deal-killer. I was looking at Gaylans, Tanbark, and a "Push" grandson for her myself. Thanks in advance.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

The great majority of goldens being bred as future obedience stars go back to Reggie in their pedigree. Most obedience breeders have a Reggie son that they used regularly at some point in their program. For instance, Tanbark has a lot of Bomber, Sunfire has used (and still uses) a lot of Rocky. For One Ash it's Six Pack. Gaylans had a Reggie daughter Corey, and Benden a daughter Yo. Most of Hideaway's breeding program is based on Thriller, a Reggie grandson. Zoom, who I believe to be one of the best obedience goldens out there right now, is line bred on Reggie. I went back and looked last year, and it was something like 17 out of the top 25 goldens in obedience last year had Reggie in the pedigree. http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=1902

That probably doesn't give you any useful information I guess more just interesting FYI


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

Loisiana said:


> The great majority of goldens being bred as future obedience stars go back to Reggie in their pedigree. Most obedience breeders have a Reggie son that they used regularly at some point in their program. For instance, Tanbark has a lot of Bomber, Sunfire has used (and still uses) a lot of Rocky. For One Ash it's Six Pack. Gaylans had a Reggie daughter Corey, and Benden a daughter Yo. Most of Hideaway's breeding program is based on Thriller, a Reggie grandson. Zoom, who I believe to be one of the best obedience goldens out there right now, is line bred on Reggie. I went back and looked last year, and it was something like 17 out of the top 25 goldens in obedience last year had Reggie in the pedigree. Pedigree: OTCh Meadowpond Stardust Reggie OS OBHF
> 
> That probably doesn't give you any useful information I guess more just interesting FYI


I thought it was very interesting information. 
Too bad we don't have an "interesting breeding happening now" thread.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

hollyk said:


> I thought it was very interesting information.
> Too bad we don't have an "interesting breeding happening now" thread.


That's an interesting idea. Would the breeders involved want public disclosure and discussion of those breedings?


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## hollyk (Feb 21, 2009)

TheZ's said:


> That's an interesting idea. Would the breeders involved want public disclosure and discussion of those breedings?


Maybe not, besides I already spend way too much time on K9 data.


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## drloripalooza (Jan 7, 2012)

Loisiana, that's fascinating, and just the sort of information she would like. Thank you very much.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

And in Reggie's pedigree are both Jason (Laurell's Especial Jason) and Boomer (Bardfield Boomer), two dogs that occur in even more of the top obedience and agility pedigree. I knew both Jason and Boomer (my family's first Golden had both as grandparents), and they were fantastic, sweet, loving dog's...everything you would want in a Golden. Heck, now that I think about it, I may have met Reggie too!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Reggie and I were born the same year LOL


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

OKay now I had to go back and search on Titan .. he is the 4th generation OTCH his sire's side... Mom not so much but she does have Cotton back on her side..
Hopefully Mighty will do as well. He has Apollo as a sire and Mom is Push daughter and Rocky back there also...


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

Maybe I missed it but if you and/or your friend is located in NE New England there is also Mirasol Goldens. Ray and Alison have produced many beautiful and excellent working dogs over the years.

EDIT:
Well going back I do see Mirasol was mentioned. And if this person is looking for more conformation/field breeders I can recommend Morningstar Goldens In Warwick, NY. Just amother thought.


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

Titan1 said:


> OKay now I had to go back and search on Titan .. he is the 4th generation OTCH his sire's side... Mom not so much but she does have Cotton back on her side..
> Hopefully Mighty will do as well. He has Apollo as a sire and Mom is Push daughter and Rocky back there also...


Any idea how many 4th generation OTCH's their have been? Can't imagine that's happened much. I expect Mighty is going to be terrific.


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## Titan1 (Jan 19, 2010)

TheZ's said:


> Any idea how many 4th generation OTCH's their have been? Can't imagine that's happened much. I expect Mighty is going to be terrific.


Okay..lol.. Now I have to go back and ask the record keepers...


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Titan1 said:


> Okay..lol.. Now I have to go back and ask the record keepers...


I know Susan Pilkerton has bred some Sunsplash pups that, when they finish the OTCH (and I can promise it will be just a matter of when not if) will be 8th generation OTCh. Current generation's mom is Zest, who's mom Freebie was a Rocky daughter and dad Timer was a Bomber son (so line bred on Reggie). They can be traced back pretty much to when the OTCH originated.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

There's one other litter that has a 7 generation OTCh, and that's from lynn Weinberg of Hideaway. (thank ya Charles!)


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Loisiana said:


> I know Susan Pilkerton has bred some Sunsplash pups that, when they finish the OTCH (and I can promise it will be just a matter of when not if) will be 8th generation OTCh. Current generation's mom is Zest, who's mom Freebie was a Rocky daughter and dad Timer was a Bomber son (so line bred on Reggie). They can be traced back pretty much to when the OTCH originated.





Titan1 said:


> OKay now I had to go back and search on Titan .. he is the 4th generation OTCH his sire's side... Mom not so much but she does have Cotton back on her side..
> Hopefully Mighty will do as well. He has Apollo as a sire and Mom is Push daughter and Rocky back there also...





Loisiana said:


> There's one other litter that has a 7 generation OTCh, and that's from lynn Weinberg of Hideaway. (thank ya Charles!)



Very Very Impressive Families (and Titan is so handsome).


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## drloripalooza (Jan 7, 2012)

A few more requests from my friend:
She is looking for a "larger" breeder. 
She is looking for a well-established breeder who has been breeding for a long time. 
She is looking for a breeder who will be a good mentor.
She wants to "choose" by breeder.
She is looking for a sire with both OB and hunting titles, MH is fine, OB should be at least UD. Dam's titles are not important to her.
She is looking for a more discriminating Golden, one who can tell icky people from nice ones, of course does not expect a 'guardy' dog. I know this is possible because i have owned such a golden.
She wants a bold puppy, but knows this will be more of the breeder pick from the litter.
She understand what "drivey" consists of in a Golden; also wants very good nerves.

Thanks in advance
p.s. Linebreeding, judiciously done, is fine.


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

Is she looking for one that she could take in the breed ring. Is she looking for a CH titled sire.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

drloripalooza said:


> A few more requests from my friend:
> She is looking for a "larger" breeder.
> She is looking for a well-established breeder who has been breeding for a long time.
> She is looking for a breeder who will be a good mentor.
> ...



Not trying to be a smart-ass here but do you know what she is looking for will be EXTREMELY difficult to find? 
Sire - MH UD(X). If you go through K9Data there are a total of 31 males listed that I find that have either a UD MH or UDX MH titles. And well over half of them are dead. And I know some of those still alive are neutered. 
And why would not the dam's titles matter? 
And a LOT of the other traits you list may be apparent before 8 weeks of age but not always. 
Just saying that is QUITE the list in my opinion. But good luck in the search.


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## drloripalooza (Jan 7, 2012)

No, she is not looking for a dog to take into the breed ring. She is not interested in conformation, just OB, but figures a dog with a hunting title will have more "drive." She does have a drivey, hunting Cocker!  
Perhaps if we just stuck to the breeder options we would have more luck:
*She is looking for a "larger" breeder. 
She is looking for a well-established breeder who has been breeding for a long time. 
She is looking for a breeder who will be a good mentor.
She wants to "choose" by breeder.*

Sorry for the boldface.
Don't know how to remove it.

We are not trying to sound like jerks, or too picky. 

Thanks again.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

drloripalooza said:


> We are not trying to sound like jerks, or too picky.
> 
> Thanks again.



You do not sound like jerks and I hope that I did not across as implying that. My best suggestion would be go to some obedience trials in your area and watch the dogs. As long as it is not a specialty (other than Golden that is ) I am sure there will be some Goldens entered and they could observe and talk to any of the handlers who's dogs they like.


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## drloripalooza (Jan 7, 2012)

I am going to Eukanuba AKC in Orlando, FL this coming weekend so I will be on the lookout. I'm a bit shy, though!


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## SheetsSM (Jan 17, 2008)

Out of all of the breeder suggestions provided, has your friend crossed any off the list? If so, perhaps it could help the folks here see which breeders have already been researched and why your friend didn't find what she was looking for--what characteristics were missing.


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## AmbikaGR (Dec 31, 2007)

GREAT!!! Buy a catalog and watch. Mark any dogs that really impress you - likely easier to mark off the ones that won't. Then you/your friend can research some of those pedigrees and start you search from there. I would NOT recommend trying to talk to any of the obedience teams there - they will be extremely stressed and not very "friendly".


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

AmbikaGR said:


> . I would NOT recommend trying to talk to any of the obedience teams there - they will be extremely stressed and not very "friendly".


I don't fully agree, I wouldn't try to talk if they're warming up their dog or waiting to go in the ring, but if they're not focused on their dog I don't think it hurts to talk. I was there last year and was in pure heaven talking golden pedigrees with everyone.

In my mind, Sunfire would be perfect for what she's looking for. Barb's been breeding since the 70's, and is always happy to answer questions and play the part of mentor. We have a facebook group and she gets on there daily, in addition to answering phone calls and emails. She balances out the breedings with enough conformation lines that most dogs from her are easily able to obtain a CCA. Obedience is their specialty, although many have been successful in field and agility too. There is a past 2 time NOC from Sunfire. Last year there were three Sunfire dogs at the NOI (all Apollo sons), and two finished in the top ten.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Oh and for your own purposes, Sunfire has used Push a few times. Michelle (Titan1) has a Push grandson she got this year. He's going to be one handsome and talented fellow!


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## drloripalooza (Jan 7, 2012)

We are looking at Sunfire, High Times, and Gaylans for now.

Thanks, I love Push.


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

Since she is not looking for a bench type dog, how about Topbrass as a choice as well? If she wants a bolder golden, I would also look for dogs with field titles, they are competitive, and a bit different than hunt titles, and in my opinion take way more dog, ecspecially since they are dominated by labs.

I personally like Sunfire, High Times, and Tanbark for the ones that have been around a while. 


I know you said she wants a larger scale breeder(lots of litters yearly?), who has been around a long time, but there are some nice ones that only breed about 1 litter a year that are great breeders as well.
I have a very nice bitch from HighRoller, and they have a nice breeding planned for this spring. I do not know the sire very well(other than the fact he has a very nice pedigree), but know the bitch some, and know her breeding well. She does not have obedience titles, but is the type of girl that could be successful in anything she did.

Epi-X-Clyde


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

Your friend should get on here, so she can talk to us. She will probably want to once she gets a golden anyway, because we do tend to sometimes have fun on here..


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

A lot of the Apollo offspring have very nice heads!! So do the Bart offspring.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

I still say Topbrass unless she has already decided against them. Jackie Mertens is just the kind of classic old time breeder she is looking for.

The person looking for this dog is used to the large working dog (Giant Schnauzer, GSD) kennels. From what I can gather in terms of looks she wants a slightly older style of show dog, maybe a pre-Charlie look. She enjoys the challenge of a less biddable dog, one that keeps her working, but wants the exactness that a Golden can give in the obedience ring.

As far as discrimination, I have told her that my Goldens would be more than willing to protect me if they perceived a human as a threat, but they assume all humans are good until proven otherwise, so their threat threshold is rather high. That is not to say my Goldens are not very loyal and much prefer my company to anyone elses. I am also a very chill person, so I rarely perceive people as threats either so my Goldens follow suit.


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## Kmullen (Feb 17, 2010)

I will say Anney (k9design) is there  Her Fisher is amazing and he was just bred to a nice performance bitch.


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

I may be a bit partial, but this Topbrass litter should be really nice!!

Performance pups due Early 2013


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

Dana & Dillon will be AWESOME -- both dogs are super and very attractive!!! Dillon is a favorite of mine, big fan. 
A lot of field trial bred goldens can be rather sensitive -- I think it all boils down to this person needs to look at the parents and see if they like them.


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## Conquerergold (Dec 12, 2007)

Very interesting thread, and an even more interesting list of what this person is looking for.

On the whole, I do think she will have a harder time finding a 'harder Golden' (if I understand what that means), as it's not really in keeping with Golden Retriever character (at least not ones I have been exposed to in 20+ years, which are mainly Conformation/Obedience/Agility dogs (as in they can do all of those things)).

While I understand the want and desire to have parents (not sure why the dam doesn't matter in this case) with Obedience titles, in my experience that is not always necessary. I helped train and trial the Canadian #1 Golden, #1 Sporting Dog and #5 All Breeds in Obedience several years ago and the highest obedience title in 4 generations was a CD. From my own breeding I have had a dog just a few legs shy of their AKC MACH, with zero agility titles in 5 generations, another is working their way up to a MACH, same with obedience titles.

With the right owner, the right training program, and the right puppy the sky can be the limit when it comes to most of the performance sports.

Cheers
Rob


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Conquerergold said:


> Very interesting thread, and an even more interesting list of what this person is looking for.
> 
> On the whole, I do think she will have a harder time finding a 'harder Golden' (if I understand what that means), as it's not really in keeping with Golden Retriever character (at least not ones I have been exposed to in 20+ years, which are mainly Conformation/Obedience/Agility dogs (as in they can do all of those things)).
> 
> ...


I'm taking "hard" to be the opposite as "soft". As in, not going to melt because of corrections. I'd definitely put my youngest in that category. He is a total love bug, wants to live his life curled in my lap if he's not running around, but a correction is not going to hurt his feelings or make him shut down.

I'm assuming she said mom's titles don't matter because in most of the larger breeding programs the girls aren't always titled.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

In this thread the person looking for the dog describes what they are looking for in terms of a Golden. Look at the top post on this page.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Rob - this is a sidetrack, but you just made my day. 

I went with a conformation puppy because I wanted that temperament and look first. It was a huge risk as far as trainability and I had (still have to) go by what the breeders told me as far as these dogs being capable of great things. 

I would rather sacrifice that dog's ability to become an OTCH with the least amount of effort on my part.... 

As opposed to sacrificing when it comes to having a dog who will never growl, bite in his life.

And even opposed to sacrificing when it comes to spending $$$$ on a dog who doesn't even look like a golden retriever.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Selli-Belle said:


> In this thread the person looking for the dog describes what they are looking for in terms of a Golden. Look at the top post on this page.


I feel bad saying this, but I'm wondering what is attracting this person to a golden retriever? Reading her rambling comment, I really don't get it. 

Beyond anything else - I don't believe that there is such a thing as a show/field golden who isn't a show/obedience golden. That's a contradition.  

Why not steer her towards labs instead? I've met labs who are harder headed and EXACTLY what she's looking for.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

I think she needs a Presto pup 

Pedigree: MACH Dal-Rhe River Run Irreplaceable VCD3 UDX OM2 RAE TDX SH MXG XF CCA WCX VCX ADHF


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

Loisiana said:


> I think she needs a Presto pup
> 
> Pedigree: MACH Dal-Rhe River Run Irreplaceable VCD3 UDX OM2 RAE TDX SH MXG XF CCA WCX VCX ADHF


Good suggestion! I did recommend that she look into Titan's breeding!


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## Conquerergold (Dec 12, 2007)

Selli-Belle said:


> In this thread the person looking for the dog describes what they are looking for in terms of a Golden. Look at the top post on this page.


After reading that, I would have to agree with the other poster, why a Golden? What is described, in my opinion, is not typical Golden behaviour she is looking for. This person seems to want a herding or working dog mentality in a Golden Retriever package, which is just plain ol' incorrect.

I would suggest this person do some real research into the history of our breed, they were made to work alongside WITH man, not to be completely independent thinkers. Before someone reads this and says, 'but they are out there I had one', I will just say that's the exception not the rule (at least it should be the exception). In this persons own writing they state they have only seen what they are looking for a couple of times.

At this point I think my only suggestion would be to either alter the expectations into something realistic for a Golden Retriever, or keep those expectations and look into a different breed (if it's the challenge of getting into a dogs head she wants, maybe try a Siberian, or a Beagle? Both independent breeds where much work is required to get to the high obedience levels).

Rob


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## TheZ's (Jun 13, 2011)

Conquerorgold, thanks for your comments. As I've been following this thread I've been thinking that the mystery person is looking for a dog that would perform like a great Golden but not have the Golden temperament. For me the temperament is the best aspect of the Goldens.

As an aside, if I had the requisite ability and wanted to train a dog for top level obedience and had the resources to go anywhere to get the best, I'd be getting thoroughly involved in the search myself rather than looking to others to identify the alternatives. Something about all of this doesn't square up for me.


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## Selli-Belle (Jan 28, 2009)

To some extent she is seeing Goldens doing so well (and typically winning) in obedience trials due to their precision and since she wants to do well in obedience she is looking into Goldens.


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## Stretchdrive (Mar 12, 2011)

Them goldens are doing so well, because they are paired with the right people. I prefer a drivey dog, and know I would have a ton of fun with a border collie, and have considered them many times, but everytime I go back to goldens, because I love how social, and cuddly they are.

If she finds the right breed for her, and does a good job training it, and has a strong bond with the dog, I am sure she will do great no matter what breed she gets.


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## lhv1973 (Nov 13, 2012)

_"Them goldens are doing so well, because they are paired with the right people. I prefer a drivey dog, and know I would have a ton of fun with a border collie, and have considered them many times, but everytime I go back to goldens, because I love how social, and cuddly they are."_

This is so very true! I just got my RAE title with my chihuahua this past weekend and she got very high marks from the judge. If you make a great team, you and your dog will go far.


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## drloripalooza (Jan 7, 2012)

Exactly, Loisiana


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## drloripalooza (Jan 7, 2012)

Oops!
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I was replying to Loisiana's description of hard as opposed to soft on the previous page -- a harder dog being one that won't shut down in the face of a correction.

Also, exactly right regarding the titling of the dam.

My friend has quite a bit of sporting group knowledge and owns two Am Cockers, one of whom is very birdy, the other of whom is very affectionate. She appreciates these characteristics in them, just as she appreciates the very different characteristics of her Giant Schnauzer. 

As for why she is not on here herself, she's very busy running a rescue, fostering and placing dogs, and I offered to network for her and do more research. Since I have been on here for about 6 months and have been looking for a future (2-3 years) pup myself, I was familiar with several of the kennels, and welcomed more input from the readers of this forum. We have somewhat similar tastes in Goldens, except I couldn't care less about their heads, but I prefer reds! We both like naughty drive-monsters. So if this has all confused or "doesn't add up," I'm sorry. I appreciate the help from everyone.


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## drloripalooza (Jan 7, 2012)

I am sure that Selli-Belle is correct in that my friend appreciates the precision that Goldens bring to the OB ring.

But my friend also has expressed to me that she loves the sheer joy which no dog but a Golden exudes. And I think you all know what I'd talking about.  

She has come to deeply appreciate the Golden character through her interactions with Goldens and their owners, including helping out those whose dogs have passed. She has wide breed knowledge, and does not make breed choices for herself or those adopting from her rescue lightly. 

I'm a Golden fiend, of course. I came to Goldens late -- my early twenties -- so I am only on my third, plus a Toller/Golden mix. I'll never be without a Golden myself, I fervently hope, but I am not the sort to push Goldens on everyone who wants a dog. I respect the Golden character and heritage, know the needs and wants of the breed, and would never want a dog to go to a home where he/she would not be appreciated fully. I will say, though, that the suggestion my friend get a BC cracks me up. She's a lot less of a herding group person than I!


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

drloripalooza said:


> I was replying to Loisiana's description of hard as opposed to soft on the previous page -- a harder dog being one that won't shut down in the face of a correction.


One thing I have to say though is that what makes a dog soft as far as level of correction does not necessarily mean that dog is not going to be a great obedience dog? Ideal obedience dogs are those who are immediately receptive to their owner's movements and the mildest and calmest corrections. 

I think your friend wants to avoid any dog that will be so muleheaded when it comes to corrections that she has to manhandle them to get through to them. 

As far as softness... the real problem isn't the inability of a dog to handle heavy corrections. The real problem is bringing home an unsound or nervous dog who can't handle noises, conflict, stress, or anxiety from their owner. 



> As for why she is not on here herself, she's very busy running a rescue, fostering and placing dogs


I know plenty of people who do _exactly_ that...

And I guess a question here is that - will your friend have time to train and work with a puppy in addition to everything else she does? Particularly if prior to bringing that puppy home she couldn't spare the time to talk with breed referrals and interview breeders herself? 



> my friend appreciates the precision that Goldens bring to the OB ring.
> 
> But my friend also has expressed to me that she loves the sheer joy which no dog but a Golden exudes.


Of course - but just keep in mind that the precision and joy which these dogs show in the ring do not always come with the type of dog she was describing on the other forum (which she had time to post on). It all comes down to training what you have and putting a lot of time and work into that dog.


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Pedigree: MACH UCD UR03 Hi-Top Shawnfield's Rapid Replay UDX OM1 GN GO VER RAE JH MXB MJB NAP NJP XF WC
I'm in love with the whole litter this boy is from. He's been used for several litters this year, looking forward to seeing how they turn out. Also looking forward to seeing what the girls in the litter produce.

They just announced a new Reese litter last night to this Push granddaughter, should be nice.
Pedigree: Sunfire Winthrop Tornado OA, OAJ


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## drloripalooza (Jan 7, 2012)

Thanks for all your information and help. I hope it did not break some rule for me to ask for help for a friend. This thread has been helpful for me in my breeder search as well. My friend certainly intends to look at breeders herself and inteview them (and be interviewed by them!). 

I went to the AKC Eukanuba in Orlando this weekend and watched quite a few of the Goldens in OB. It was so nice to see dogs from breeders I am considering, as well as from kennels of which I hadn't heard. Now I am thinking of going to the Golden specialty next year!


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## Loisiana (Jul 29, 2009)

Oh tell us about it! I went last year and had a blast. I adore Zoom.


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## drloripalooza (Jan 7, 2012)

Zoom was amazing, such a wonderful, beautiful heel. Buster was awesome as well. Was able to see dogs from kennels which you all have mentioned as well as others, such as One Ash, Goldseekers, and Trifecta. Of course I kept a close eye on the dogs from Gaylans, TopBrass, High Times, and TanBark. Saw a daughter of Push as well, and am researching the lineages as I write. Of course all the Goldens were fantastic or they would not have been there.

Now I am leaning toward High Times myself; I would like to take a drive down and look at Sunfire some time, too. As you can see, I am in the very early stages of thinking about a pup, and want to take my time, not that I think I will go wrong with any of the very good breeders mentioned here. 

I am thinking of going to the Golden Specialty this upcoming fall.


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## Jen Cocozza (Sep 20, 2019)

Hi. I am trying to find a relative of a Colabaugh Golden. My girl Peri's dad was Hudson and I am trying to find a relative to bring home. I just emailed the AKC to see if they could help. Did you ever find out anything?

Thank you for any information.


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## Brave (Oct 26, 2012)

Jen Cocozza said:


> Hi. I am trying to find a relative of a Colabaugh Golden. My girl Peri's dad was Hudson and I am trying to find a relative to bring home. I just emailed the AKC to see if they could help. Did you ever find out anything?
> 
> Thank you for any information.


Do you know their registered names? I find a lot of names with the Colabaugh kennel but no call names of Hudson.


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## K9-Design (Jan 18, 2009)

All of my current dogs go back to Colabaugh Morninglo Breeze.

Jane F. is no longer breeding goldens, I think she has Tervs now


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## Prism Goldens (May 27, 2011)

I can send you Janine's and MArty's (Fiorito- they are Colabaugh) email if you want, but they don't do Goldens anymore. 
I have Breeze behind all of mine, too, Trooper (C's Hi Speed Pursuit) behind a couple of them, in the SE the kennel name was pretty big in the day. And that was before people were shipping semen all over the place and the bitch had to go to the stud dog so you more often saw regional big names. Someone else's thread on CAsey - Casey was also SE- he was behind Trooper and about a million other dogs.
And actually latest OP you can order your girls pedigree via AKC as a downloadable document (and if you do, send to me and I will make her a page) and from there it'd be easier to find an animal who's still being bred. That'll cost you $22 or so for the pedigree. AKC can't really tell you much on the phone. And unless you just want the paper, it's lots more useful to have a k9data page than a fancy $35 pedigree.


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