# What causes an “open” coat like this?



## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

My boy Castor‘s coat (from behind his shoulders to his butt) seems coarse and very “open.” The fur never seems to lay flat, or to feel soft or look shiny. It’s been this way since I bought him at the age of three, and it’s particularly noticeable after he blows his coat and has no undercoat. I’m trying to figure out if this is genetic, nutritional, or a grooming issue.

Some other details;
He‘s intact
He’s raw fed (Primal Turkey and Sardine)
He gets a variety of supplements, including fish or plant oil (I’ve tried a variety of oils, but at the moment he’s on Skin and Coat Oil for Dogs | Natural Dog Supplements | Springtime Supplements
He‘s bathed about every 4-6 weeks and we allow him to air dry (we use a variety of natural dog shampoos and occasionally a moisture mist)
He only gets brushed after a bath or when he’s blowing coat
My other dog (10 year old spayed female) has all the same parameters but her coat is lovely.

Thoughts?


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## Tagrenine (Aug 20, 2019)

pawsnpaca said:


> My boy Castor‘s coat (from behind his shoulders to his butt) seems coarse and very “open.” The fur never seems to lay flat, or to feel soft or look shiny. It’s been this way since I bought him at the age of three, and it’s particularly noticeable after he blows his coat and has no undercoat. I’m trying to figure out if this is genetic, nutritional, or a grooming issue.
> 
> Some other details;
> He‘s intact
> ...


Felix’s coat looks a bit like this if he air dries. Not sure if that’s contributing here and it’s not usually to this extent but definitely along his croup. I contribute it to the coat just being used to drying that way and needing to be trained to lie flatter.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Looks like a combination of middle-aged to senior dog coat (gets kinda grizzled and cottony looking as they get older) and appears to be damaged coat. 

If this were my dog... I'd probably put him on kibble (with grain) + I'd add something like glycoflex 3. Can't hurt anything since he's middle aged (am guessing). The kibble takes guesswork out of making sure he's getting enough of the vitamins that he needs... and then glycoflex helps joints + the green lipped mussels are good for coat and skin health. I guess too if your dog's coat is changing because of hormones dropping with age, glycoflex may help there too. Who knows... . 

Bathing - don't be afraid to bathe him more frequently, but you need to condition his coat while you do that. And blow dry. And couple times a week or more, run a slicker brush through to redistribute oils.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

Thanks to both of you for the suggestions!

A few other notes (not being contentious, just looking to generate more thoughts, if there are any other theories I should consider):

His coat was like this (though maybe not so much so) when I got him at 3, so I don‘t think it‘s (all) age.
I co-own him with his breeder, who prefers that he be raw fed. I also believe in the health value of feeding raw, so I wouldn’t change him to kibble just to try to fix a superficial issue. I’m not thinking the food is the most likely problem though because the Raw I feed is a commercial product that is “formulated to meet and exceed the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food and Cat Food Nutrient Profiles for All Life Stages and… are laboratory tested to guarantee the nutritional needs of your pets are met. Additionally, all Formulas have been validated with feed trials.” He also does get some grain in the form of biscuits and some supplemental, grain-inclusive kibble. AND, his spayed older sister gets exactly the same thing and her coat is fine.
Among the supplements he gets is this product, which does provide some glucosamine and this product that gives him the green lipped muscle.
As mentioned in my original post, we have also tried a variety of oils in his food (including coconut oil, fish oils, plant-based oils, and the product linked in my original post) - none of which seem to have made much difference.
The only nutritional thing we haven't really tried is a raw egg several days a week, which is something his breeder used to give him.

Another thought I may pursue is a thyroid issue, as, in addition to this coat issue he’s a bit on the anxious/sensitive side. I ran a test last spring and got some odd results that both my vet and the testing lab felt may have been to the sample being mishandled, so I may run that again at some point. However, aside from the mentioned “symptoms” he tends to run a bit too thin, so I’m not thinking thyroid is the most likely explanation either.

Unless someone has more thoughts, grooming seems to be the most likely explanation (The only reason I question that theory is that the first year or so I had him he was groomed by a Golden breeder who specialized in Goldens… with the same result). I’ll play around with how we dry him and see if that results in any improvement. Kate (@Megora), you mentioned a coat conditioner. Is there a particular product you would recommend?


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## Emmdenn (Jun 5, 2018)

Denver’s coat also gets like this after a lot of swimming and air drying. He also once got a professional bath and blow dry and they crate dried him and he came home with basically all of the hair from behind his shoulder to croup pointing in the wrong direction.


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

pawsnpaca said:


> (The only reason I question that theory is that the first year or so I had him he was groomed by a Golden breeder who specialized in Goldens… with the same result).


And that is why I suspect this is less a grooming issue and more a damaged coat. Damaged means he needs more help nutritionally and likely consider switching shampoos and working with a conditioner. That means bathing and drying your dog every week or two weeks.

Thyroid might be a direction to check - Could definitely help since he's got a little extra around the waist. It could definitely cause coat issues.

Dog food is another thing - I know it is a very touchy thing for a lot of people - especially if they have multiple dogs eating a food and it's just one dog that's not thriving.

Basically gut feeling is it is not just 1 thing - though that may be the easiest fix if that is the case.

Below are pics of my dogs who had gotten baths and air dried, and then went running in torrential rain and air dried the same day. You have got lots of flippies - but not open coat.

Conditioner depends on how you approach bathing. It's not going to work with monthly baths and once monthly brushing. Leave in conditioners like pro-gro or even Queen Helene Cholestrol - need to be applied to clean coats.

My personal preference is to use a conditioner mouse which gets rinsed when the dog is bathed. Like CC Thick and Thickener - but you need weekly or biweekly baths to get that routine to work at repairing the coat.

And then healthy gut/insides is important when working on fixing coat issues - which again is dog food + adding a supplement like Glycoflex. And switching foods/supplements may take 1-3 months to see results.


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## pawsnpaca (Nov 11, 2014)

Thanks Kate - I’ll keep plugging away at the potential issues. Thanks for your thoughts!


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I feed a combo of raw & kibble

My dogs coats are great with the possible exception of my wooly bear Brady since he was castrated...his coat now needs more maintenance as in his undercoat is more apt to blow but is still generally in great shape.

They are not bathed on the regular although they spend time swimming in clean water and they do get hosed down as needed (think rolling or running through muck). When they are bathed I always use a conditioner & they are blown dry...for instance bathing is generally reserved for pre-shows and/or when they are actually dirty. I believe this helps the coat stay healthy.

They get a fresh green smoothie daily which is normally lettuce, kale, cucumbers (with peel), romaine, celery, coconut oil and whole flax seed, all organic ingredients except for the cucumbers which are washed with a natural veggie wash, these ingredients are blended using my VitaMix until smooth. They do get Glycoflex iii once they are around 16 months. They all race to the kitchen while this is being prepared to be treated with coconut oil off a spoon 

For their meat, I prefer beef and purchase either a blend of beef with fine ground bones & veggies or beef with organ meats & veggies. Their kibble meals (adult dogs) are Victor Pro, the pup at 7 months is still on PPP large breed puppy.

I would suggest keeping an eye on the thyroid since that is the most likely culprit. 

My dogs are combed out regularly...I wouldn't say every day but several times a week using a comb.

The pics do look like a damaged coat and my agility instructor is the one who advised me on freshly grinding whole organic flax seed to ensure it is not rancid, combined with coconut oil. Oh, my dogs also get leftovers and pan drippings/juices so there are those nutrients since we are primarily a keto based household. I would not suggest pan drippings for dogs who are fed kibble as their main source of food since their systems might revolt but since you feed raw chances are he would be okay with drippings....note I am old enough to remember how my mother would feed our dogs everything we ate basically before dog food was a big business and that is how the working & house dogs in her youth were fed ..


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