# his hips are failing....question



## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

this question is about my german shepard, maybe someone can give me some advice on what to do. He is 12 years old, great health but his right hind leg is very weak. he has a hard time walking it looks as though its giving out on him . the vet has him on Rymadil. Is there anything else i can do for him?? some days hes fine he runs around and plays and other days he will just be quiet and lay around. Thanks for any input


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

There are many, many threads about this.

When Copper's arthritis got bad, we started out on Duralactin initiallly, ended up on Rimadyl for a while and then changed to prednisone.

Based on some strong recommendation on here I found a vet who did cold laser therapy and acupuncture. He had been trotting very oddly on his front end while his back end did the frankenstein stroll. He walked better on the way to the car after his first session. We never made it to a maintenance level because things kept setting him back, but it obviously helped.

I also used a heating pad and massager on him. He loved it, but not all dogs like a massager.

He also took fish oil capsules daily and we were also starting to try Sam-E (it is also available online) and I think it was helping, but didn't get to use it long enough to be certain.

I hope you find a combination of things that make your boy feel better.


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

thank you so much for your advice. We will try the fish oil along with the rymadil.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

We also used a glucosamine/chondroitin supplement. The name escapes me at the moment, but I got it from my vet initially and then on-line. I'll post the name when it comes back into my tiny little brain.


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

yes i told husband to give him glucosamine as well. we will get that today for him


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## Maxs Mom (Mar 22, 2008)

Dausquin by Nutramax is supposed to be the top of the line joint supplement. Nutramax makes Cosequin which I personally love. To me worth the price. I 'think' you have to get Dausquin through a vet I am not sure. 

Good luck... I hate when old loved ones need more help.


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Ask about Adequan injections


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## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

I purchase Dasuquin through Pet Meds. It does not require a prescription because it is a supplement. My integrative vet recommends it highly for all active dogs. I give my 3.5 year old 58 lb male Golden who is extremely healthy (no issues whatsoever) 2 a day because he is so active. Pet Meds will honor anyone's price. Just last month on their website they were charging $100 but I saw it for $75 on another website (not one I was familiar with) and they honored the price and gave free shipping.


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

thank you so much everyone i am going to call the vet about the adequan injections and get him on the Dasuquin instead of the rymadil


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## magiclover (Apr 22, 2008)

Does he like to swim? Hydrotherapy pools for dogs are great ways to exercise and strengthen the muscles without putting strain on the joint. Magic did that for the last year and she loved it.


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

oakleysmommy said:


> thank you so much for your advice. We will try the fish oil along with the rymadil.


Adding fish oil may allow for a reduction of NSAID's. In this study the NSAID used was Carprofen (Rimadyl)

AVMA - Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association - 236(5):535 - Abstract

What worked the best for my boy Tucker was acupuncture by a IVAS certified vet. I strongly recommend you give it a try. Try to keep his running and playing from getting too crazy, the endless cycle of inflammation is not a good thing.


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## Sweet Girl (Jun 10, 2010)

It's so hard to watch them get older. 

I've had really good success with the natural supplement, Sashas Blend, for my dog's overall joints and stiffness. She was recently diagnosed with osteoarthritis in both front ankles, and is now intermittently on Deramaxx, which has been really helpful for her. No more limping. 

I really hope you find the right treatment for your dog.


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

thank you everyone i appreciate it, its just sad to watch him walk and his leg give out at times. i will mention the acupuncture to my husband. i wish he would swim as we have a pool but hes scared of water. In the meantime i will get him on the fish oil supplement and glucosimine


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## CarolinaCasey (Jun 1, 2007)

Dasequin should be in ADDITION to the Rimadyl or Deramaxx since it's a supplement where the other two are NSAIDS. You can also have the aqequan injections with this. Another supplement instead of Dasequin is Glycoflex III


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## PrincessDi (Jun 8, 2009)

Don't count out the hydrotherapy, if he doesn't like to swim. Di was having a difficult time with her hips and arthritis. She did not even like to get her paws wet. We took her to hydrotherapy and they got her in the pool, before she had time to think about it. The two hydrotherapist do 15 minutes of massage and Range of Motion and then they let her float. She loves floating, because she doesn't feel her weight. She can now swim for almost a full 20 minutes. She is getting around really good now. She is also on Dasaquin and Deramaxx and hydrotherapy once a week. The cost of the hydrotherapy is only $48 per week. I hope you're able to get him feeling better. It is very difficult watching them decline.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

This sounds exactly like my Toby.
First and foremost, get him to a good rehabilitation vet. Have them actually diagnose what's wrong with him. Don't just assume it's arthritis, many times it's not, especially in a GSD. It can be a nerve problem instead. 
My Toby goes to a wonderful acupuncture vet who is certified in rehabilitation. She examined him thoroughly, and said he doesn't really have a "pain response", so she doesn't believe him to be in much pain. The xrays back up her thinking that the problem is a compressed disk, which is putting pressure on his spinal cord, which is causing the rear end weakness. Because she didn't feel he's in much pain we ended up taking him off the rimadyl, and it really hasn't made much difference. 
Also a certified rehabilitation vet will give you some exercises that you can do at home to help strengthen his back end before it gets worse. 
I can't say enough good about acupuncture. They did "aquapuncture" first, in which trameel (a natural anti-inflammatory) was injected into the acupuncture points. Then they switched to "electro puncture", in which a mild electric current is put thru the acupuncture points for about 20 minutes. We go once every 3 weeks.
Also, have his diet analyzed. Be sure he's getting enough protein. Older dogs need a lot of high quality protein, or they lose muscle mass, especially in the big thigh muscles, in order to supply their brains and organs with proper protein. We supplement my Toby's kibble with 2 ounces of high quality protein every day.
It's so hard to see this happening to them.

P.s. my acupuncture/rehab vet is a HUGE fan of adequan injections, Toby gets them twice a week. You can do it at home easily.


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## GoldenMum (Mar 15, 2010)

My older dogs are on monthly adequan injections...while their hips are not failing...it has helped their stiffness....


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*Oakleysmommy*

Oakleysmommy

Lots of good advice here. Our dogs in the past have been on Rimadyl and the adequin injection and it helped.
They also get glucosamine every day.
I will pray for your sweet boy.


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> This sounds exactly like my Toby.
> First and foremost, get him to a good rehabilitation vet. Have them actually diagnose what's wrong with him. Don't just assume it's arthritis, many times it's not, especially in a GSD. It can be a nerve problem instead.
> My Toby goes to a wonderful acupuncture vet who is certified in rehabilitation. She examined him thoroughly, and said he doesn't really have a "pain response", so she doesn't believe him to be in much pain. The xrays back up her thinking that the problem is a compressed disk, which is putting pressure on his spinal cord, which is causing the rear end weakness. Because she didn't feel he's in much pain we ended up taking him off the rimadyl, and it really hasn't made much difference.
> Also a certified rehabilitation vet will give you some exercises that you can do at home to help strengthen his back end before it gets worse.
> ...


 Thank you for the information. he is very stiff, i just saw him now walking around the pool and 3 times his right hind leg gave in so i put him inside in his cage. He had the rymadil this a.m. i will add extra protein to his meal tonite and call the vet to have them determine exactly what it is.


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Karen519 said:


> Oakleysmommy
> 
> Lots of good advice here. Our dogs in the past have been on Rimadyl and the adequin injection and it helped.
> They also get glucosamine every day.
> I will pray for your sweet boy.


 Yes alot of great advice. we are calling now to see about the injections. will keep u all posted. i appreciate all the feedback


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## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

I forgot to mention that Dasyquin also comes with MSM. It is supposed to help with pain so you might want to start with Dasuquin with MSM and see how that works before using a prescription pain medication. Just a thought.


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

I spoke with the vet. He had xrays done march 09. All looked fine then but it can happen so fast she said. Also they do have injections of adequen (sp). but they would do xrays before injecting to see where to inject him. i am getting him the fish oil and Dasuquin today and try it for a good week or so and see how he is. If not good still he will be off to the vet. Thank you everyone you have helped so much!!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

ooooh....adequan injections are given under the skin, there's no need to xray to see where to give them.....




oakleysmommy said:


> I spoke with the vet. He had xrays done march 09. All looked fine then but it can happen so fast she said. Also they do have injections of adequen (sp). but they would do xrays before injecting to see where to inject him. i am getting him the fish oil and Dasuquin today and try it for a good week or so and see how he is. If not good still he will be off to the vet. Thank you everyone you have helped so much!!


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

hotel4dogs said:


> ooooh....adequan injections are given under the skin, there's no need to xray to see where to give them.....


 ohhh ok...the vet said they would do xrays to see where to inject. but when i call them i will mention to them that maybe xrays wouldnt be necessary. thank you very much


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I raise my dogs on Dasuquin w/MSM and fish oil. I also used adequan injections on my old Sally girl. Could your GSD have degenerative myelopathy as well?


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Adequan travels to the joints where it is needed. I do it intramuscularly.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm chicken to do it IM here at home, my vet told me that studies have shown it's about 95% as effective done SQ so I do it that way...it's easy! Also, the acupuncture/rehab vet told me that these old guys need it done much more often than the normal maintenance dose (once a month) and she suggests once a week, twice a week if the dog is having serious problems. 




Sally's Mom said:


> Adequan travels to the joints where it is needed. I do it intramuscularly.


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Sally's Mom said:


> I raise my dogs on Dasuquin w/MSM and fish oil. I also used adequan injections on my old Sally girl. Could your GSD have degenerative myelopathy as well?


 would an xray tell us if he has degenerative myelopathy?? also getting my golden puppy in 2 weeks is it safe to supplement with dasuquin MSM as soon as i get him? and the fish oil?


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

An xray would not show degenerative myelopathy. It is a neurologic condition often diagnosed by breed predisposition and exclusion of other neurologic diseases. I start my guys on the appropriate dosages of those supplements by weight at 8 weeks. Falls into my opinion that it can't hurt, might help!!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> I'm chicken to do it IM here at home, my vet told me that studies have shown it's about 95% as effective done SQ so I do it that way...it's easy! Also, the acupuncture/rehab vet told me that these old guys need it done much more often than the normal maintenance dose (once a month) and she suggests once a week, twice a week if the dog is having serious problems.


You sound like me with our first hip dog Beau. They did it IM at the clinic but the nurse taught me to do it SQ at home. I was still squeamish doing it, fearing I'd hurt him, but we did OK. We also did weekly injections. I just kept the bottle in my refrigerator and got my needles from Walmart Pharmacy, though they special ordered to get the right size for him. 

By the way, we took Beau for an orthopedic evaluation when he was first diagnosed with HD, then again when he was diagnosed with neurological disease. The orthopedic surgeon told me his partner injured his knee skiing and decided he wanted to try out the Adequan on himself--he said it burned like the dickens when injected but his knees felt much better afterwards. The moral of that story was make sure to rub the injection site afterwards to help the burning, then spoil them with lots of treats.


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## rhondas (Sep 10, 2010)

Some folks start supplements right away. However, Dasuquin with MSM is not needed for a puppy or dog with no orthopedic issues. I use Dasuquin without MSM for my 3.5 year old.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

I also had great experience with acupuncture for my two hip dogs. Our Barkley also got the cold laser therapy and that was fabulous too. 

As far as fish oils, are you dosing at anti-inflammatory levels? That's basically 300 mgs for every 10 lbs. For a 60 pound dog it would be 1800 mgs of fish oil. Make sure it's got a purity label (USP??) and also make sure it doesn't come with added Vitamin A's which are toxic to dogs in higher doses. Our veterinarian did a seminar on this and suggested that, for example, the Walmart/Members Mark Fish oils are *NOT* the best choice for our dogs because there is no purity guarantee and the added ingredients.

I forgot to mention, in counting mgs of Omega 3s, count only the DPA/EPA numbers, not the others which are other Omegas (6?).


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

rhondas said:


> Some folks start supplements right away. However, Dasuquin with MSM is not needed for a puppy or dog with no orthopedic issues. I use Dasuquin without MSM for my 3.5 year old.


I'm with Sally's Mom--we start our dogs out on a dose for prevention/maintenance. Our vet also recommends it. So our guy gets Cosequin (I know, we did not have luck with Dausquin for our older dog last year) and anti-inflammatory levels of Omega 3s (EPA/DPA), which are helpful for ALL inflammations, not just orthopedic ones.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Mine are on dasuquin w/MSM because that is what we sell... I had no problems with Cosequin DE, either. I have done this prophylaxis for ten plus years and have a very sound 11 plus year old golden.


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Forgot to mention... when he shakes his head goes kind of crooked??? you had mentioned neurological so im wondering now if this is what it is. but he will shake and his head will get stuck to the side.


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

oakleysmommy said:


> i am getting him the fish oil and Dasuquin today and try it for a good week or so and see how he is.


I believe it takes about 3 weeks for improvement to be seen when starting out on Glucosamine/fish oil supplements. Wish they worked faster than that but they do take a while to build up in the system. You may want to start out slowly with these too as they can give some dogs diarrhea if you throw the max dose at them all at once.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

oakleysmommy said:


> Forgot to mention... when he shakes his head goes kind of crooked??? you had mentioned neurological so im wondering now if this is what it is. but he will shake and his head will get stuck to the side.


Wow, our Barkley had spondylitis (sponylosis) and he held his head crooked like that during episodes. The therapy they wanted to give him was prednisone and rest, but he was totally wild on the prednisone so we stopped it. Our acupuncture vet helped him during these episodes.


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Dallas Gold said:


> Wow, our Barkley had spondylitis (sponylosis) and he held his head crooked like that during episodes. The therapy they wanted to give him was prednisone and rest, but he was totally wild on the prednisone so we stopped it. Our acupuncture vet helped him during these episodes.


 so its nuerological then and i suppose no cure for it??


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Copper fell off the acupuncturist's table and had a severe bout of walking as I said then "like a GSD" in the back and holding his head crooked. Dallas Gold told me about spondylosis.:smooch: It was such a relief to have an idea of what was going on with my boy.

His specialist started Copper on prednisone, he had acupuncuture and laser therapy and a heating pad too (which he loved) and he was walking pretty well in about one week. There's no "cure" but different therapies can make him feel much better.


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

coppers-mom said:


> Copper fell off the acupuncturist's table and had a severe bout of walking as I said then "like a GSD" in the back and holding his head crooked. Dallas Gold told me about spondylosis.:smooch: It was such a relief to have an idea of what was going on with my boy.
> 
> His specialist started Copper on prednisone, he had acupuncuture and laser therapy and a heating pad too (which he loved) and he was walking pretty well in about one week. There's no "cure" but different therapies can make him feel much better.


 thank you. i will mention spondylosis to the vet as well!!


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

oakleysmommy said:


> thank you. i will mention spondylosis to the vet as well!!


Yes, it's a condition like arthritis is. There isn't a cure but it is manageable. Barkley had a few flareups in his life that we treated with rimadyl/tramadol and rest. Our vet agreed prednisone wasn't an option for him after he went on a tear in our house, raiding the counters, dumping the trash can and eating the contents. The real kicker, the audio of which was captured by our video camera, was when he drug a 40 pound fully loaded large Vittle Vault from the back of the house to the dining room, with his teeth. This is definitely not something a dog should do with the condition. We set up the video camera at the trash can to catch him in action (we emptied it first), because DH was sure it was Toby, not Barkley doing it....boy was he wrong!

The rimadyl was anti-inflammatory, the tramadol was for the pain during an episode, and the rest, well, we tried.
Another reason we didn't do the steriod/prednisone was because he was getting acupuncture and most acupuncture vets do not like to perform it while the dog has steroids in the system since it is ineffective.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

Dallas Gold said:


> Another reason we didn't do the steriod/prednisone was because he was getting acupuncture and most acupuncture vets do not like to perform it while the dog has steroids in the system since it is ineffective.


Yep - I had forgotten that. We did just laser as long as Copper was on prednisone. He however, tolerated it quite well and did not have the same manic response as Barkley.


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## Dallas Gold (Dec 22, 2007)

coppers-mom said:


> Yep - I had forgotten that. We did just laser as long as Copper was on prednisone. He however, tolerated it quite well and did not have the same manic response as Barkley.


 That Vittle Vault incident is one of my favorite Barkley memories. Here this tiny 59 lb golden, with severe hip dysplasia, arthritis and spondylitis on strict rest instructions, moving a full large Vittle Vault with his teeth from the utility room to the dining room of all places. We have a permanent reminder in the Vittle Vault--teeth marks! Every time I see them I smile.  That, of course, was just the beginning, because he stubbornly refused to rest after his splenectomy too.  Boy do I miss him!


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## oakleysmommy (Feb 20, 2011)

Dallas Gold said:


> Yes, it's a condition like arthritis is. There isn't a cure but it is manageable. Barkley had a few flareups in his life that we treated with rimadyl/tramadol and rest. Our vet agreed prednisone wasn't an option for him after he went on a tear in our house, raiding the counters, dumping the trash can and eating the contents. The real kicker, the audio of which was captured by our video camera, was when he drug a 40 pound fully loaded large Vittle Vault from the back of the house to the dining room, with his teeth. This is definitely not something a dog should do with the condition. We set up the video camera at the trash can to catch him in action (we emptied it first), because DH was sure it was Toby, not Barkley doing it....boy was he wrong!
> 
> The rimadyl was anti-inflammatory, the tramadol was for the pain during an episode, and the rest, well, we tried.
> Another reason we didn't do the steriod/prednisone was because he was getting acupuncture and most acupuncture vets do not like to perform it while the dog has steroids in the system since it is ineffective.


ok thanks for letting me know about this condition, sounds like thats what is wrong with him. will keep you all posted


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## caseypooh (Dec 30, 2010)

Our Casey started having trouble with her hind legs and paw turning inward when she was 12. At that time she had a cyst rupture on her back hip and we thought her stiffness was from arthritis and the infected cyst. The er vet thought it could also be neurological. With trying to get her infection under control and wound healing, we did not take her for tests. We did give her rimadyl intermittently the next year but she started having grand seizures and not eating all of her food at almost 13 years old. They found a tumor by her spleen. We think she had a brain tumor as well. Now, I go back and forth on pursuing the neurological issue. If they would have found a brain tumor, I'm not sure what we could have done. Part of me though wishes we had.


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