# Recovery and rehab after elbow surgery?



## Yarra girl

Well - topic of the day ............!
I have been reading a bit lately about elbow dysplasia as it is has affected our 9 month old labrador and he is 4 weeks post op today.
Without jumping in to the hot thread today about breeder's ethics and buyer expectations I was devasted to be reminded that overexercise, jumping and slippery floors could have contributed, along with rough housing with an older dog ( our Golden is 4 yo). The specialist said that having a bilateral condition made it much more likely to be genetic though, but the guilt you feel when your dog is in pain is never really far away. We have tiles and a wooden floor, and their play is more wrestle-mania than anything but still............
I digress - what I really would love to know today is how everyone's dogs are doing after surgery for elbow dysplasia. Being a newbie here I do not have enough posts to private message eg mamamia and Ljilly23 to see how Teddy and Tango are doing , but my concern now we are nearly over the lead and crate stage is how he will go long term. My thanks to them for documenting their stories.

Ben is a gorgeous yellow lab who has been amazing throughout this whole experience - Tessa our Golden is a wonderful calm girl ( though they do get that crazy look in their eyes sometimes and then it is game on  and I am worried how long he will be arthritis -free. He is on cartrophen injections ( just finished) and Sasha's blend for his neutraceutical supplement ( Australian names - sorry!) and will be a 'low impact' and lean dog for life now ( that was always the aim - labrador retievers are should never have evolved into the fat happy caricatures many people think of) . He has been on Science Diet since he was weaned, and we then continued, what I call " slow release dog food" to try and prevent any rapid growth spurts to protect his bones - as well as delaying his desexing ( a personal choice as I wanted his growth plates to do their own thing rather than delay closing which can happen with younger desexing - just my opinion) Dam's owner has been notified and is upset for us, and all pup owners as well so any limping pup should be checked - no plans to repeat the pairing which produced Ben ( another story) We took out pet insurance ....... more because we have only had rescued older dogs before so new to puppy-adventures, and because he is a lab ( should I say retriever!! as I think both breeds are known for loving food) and could eat anything!! 
Back to his recovery: I have noticed his gait has altered, swinging each leg out sl wide with each step like a small circle ( I think Tango did this?) and I'm not sure if this is a permanent change. He had OCD and UCP of each elbow  but was only limping on the right after lying down for a while, not even after exercise so he is a pretty tough lad as he was only favouring the worst one! In retrospect, I should have noticed that he was holding that paw rotated slightly out when sitting and standing ( everyone check your pups!) and we opted to bring his desexing forward so he could be XRayed at the same time. He is due for another specialist check November 9th, and is still on-lead and separated from Tessa unless under direct supervision. He has a little ramp to get in and out of the car ( recycled louvre door) and goes to day-boarding at our local vet's when I work ( 3 days a week ) 
So - any hints as to building his exercise back up? I was thinking about taking him to a rehab pool. He has had his food amounts dropped as he is having extra treats in the crate and less exercise.
I would love to hear how other dogs are doing post surgery, and the older the better as we all worry, I suppose, about how successful and long term their results will be. Long happy and pain-free lives to all!


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## Yarra girl

*Some pics to go with my novel!!*

Gentle Tessa and young Ben Nevis


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## IowaGold

Ben is a cutey! Glad to hear he seems to be doing well so far. My girl Piper has bilateral ED also (she's Tango's 1/2 sister). She is now 15 months old and had her surgery 4 months ago, so I don't know how she will turn out long term yet. She hasn't let the diagnosis slow her down though. Since surgery she has gotten two Junior Hunter legs (and finished the title) and just this past weekend she got two Rally Novice legs (obedience).

For our rehab we did a lot of swimming and I slowly increased her field training to normal levels. My girl doesn't have any gait abnormalities, but she wasn't bad off when we did the surgery (I really only looked for it because I found out about Tango and because Pi had been kind of "off" on the front end as a younger pup).


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## Ljilly28

Tango has had a wonderful outcome, given the severity of her ED ( fragmented coronoid process). The orthopedic vet explained it to me that the joint had "sand in its shoe", and the fragments wear more and more on anything healthy it touches as the months pass. In Tango's case, she limped so young4&5months, that we were able to do the surgery before too much damage accumulated. Any time the joint is opened up though, it promises arthritis in older adult years. Tango had a very severe case bilaterally, and both orthopedic specialists did say it was not environmental. I've raised 7 goldens, and Tango is the only one without elbows normal. I agree there is a natural guilt & you soul-search to find a reason your dog is hurting. Sometimes, it's easy too to lash out at the breeder. In Tango's case, I truly believe everyone did everything pretty right, but she just has it. Though Tango can run and play like a normal dog, she isnt supposed to wrestle like a maniac with the other dogs. She likes to put her paws up on Tally, and try to topple him. Since she's only 55lbs, she has to make a mighty effort with all her will& strength, which she is happy to do. After a session of that her elbows make an awful clicking/popping noise, and the orthopedic vet had a talk with me about how, if she could be an only dog with a quieter lifestyle, her elbows would be much better in her elder years. After conferring with her dad's owner and crying lots of tears, I decided to share her with my master teacher/boss from Pomfret School who lost his 15 year old Sunfire Golden, Danny Boy and his wife to breast cancer. She goes to history class all day with David, and meets& greets the teenagers, the staff, and even the headmaster every day, and is the campus social butterfly. She comes home here to Maine for boarding school holidays if David travels. It has been the best experience to see her blossom and shine as the constant companion of such a wonderful golden person, and I still get to see my girl many days in a year.


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## BeauShel

bumping up


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## z&mom

*Oh they are a lovely pair!*



Yarra girl said:


> Gentle Tessa and young Ben Nevis


Sorry I don't have any suggestions nor experience with this condition... I just want to say your two pups are adorable! And you sound like a wonderful parent to them. Wishing Little Ben speedy recovery and a painfree life for a long long time :wavey:


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## Yarra girl

Thank you for these updates - what a wonderful thing you have done for Tango and David, Jill. I am a school nurse part time, wish I could take our dogs to work but that would just encourage more kids to come to health centre! Tessa, our Golden, especially as she is/will be a perfect pets-as-therapy dog. 
I will definitely ask our othopod about wrestling though as it is a favourite pastime of these two, shame - but we can work on it. They did sneak in a tumble around yesterday but I was right there and called it off after a minute. Glad to hear Piper and Tango have no gait changes, fingers crossed for Ben but whatever works will be OK. By they way, he had OCD and FCP bilaterally ( no idea how I made up a new condition UCP!) and I only really picked it up at 8 months  More common in males apparently and usually shows itself between 3 and 9 months of age so good pick up on the others. The specialist says it is genetic bc of the severity, I just think we helped it along with his wrestle-mania. 
Thanks again, I look forward to hearing how others are doing and I appreciate everyone's words.


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## Yarra girl

*Post operative pics*

For any one else researching the same - hopefully no-one!
This is the day after Ben ( 8 months old - Labrador ) had bilateral arthroscopy for elbow dysplasia - both elbows had OCD and FCP 
Our 4 yo Golden has no problems thankfully - though we know she had hip and elbow scores done prior to her pups (at home number 2 before she came to us)


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## tippykayak

Yarra girl said:


> Without jumping in to the hot thread today about breeder's ethics and buyer expectations I was devasted to be reminded that overexercise, jumping and slippery floors could have contributed, along with rough housing with an older dog ( our Golden is 4 yo).


The rough housing and exercise can make it worse, but I don't believe that it really causes the condition. It's a malformation of the joint that makes the dog susceptible in the first place. Otherwise, all of us with crazy Goldens and hardwood floors would have given our dog ED and HD.


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## Maxs Mom

Yarra - I can't help you with the rehab for elbows, I have only had to rehab knees and hips. However, I too have a poorly bred (BYB) dog. She does have bad elbows but her hips are worse. She had a total hip replacement 3 years ago for her 1st birthday. A year later she was diagnosed with elbow dysplasia, and she has issues in her back too, most likely from compensation for other issues. 

First of all BOTH your dogs are adorable! I am a Golden and Lab owner too. My labs are black. Follow your vets post op instructions to the letter. That will be best. 

What I have "heard" about elbows (please take with a grain of salt) is the surgery is not a one time thing. It can need to be re-done in the future. So that being said, do what you can to prolong this operations success. With Teddi who has the bad hip, I manage her weight like a hawk, keeping her on the skinny side of normal. I keep her exercise under control, meaning I let her be a dog to a degree, but do not let things get out of hand, or get excessive. Too much and she will be sore. I give her minimal supplements at this time for management. She gets Cosequin DS (one tablet 2X a day), 1000mg of human MSM daily (can give up to 2000), salmon oil for it's natural anti-inflamatory properties. Lastly, she is on Adequan injections. It is a intra muscular joint supplement. The purpose is to hydrate the surrounding tissues, and the joint itself, and slow down the degradation of joint fluid and joint changes. 

Your dogs are beautiful, hope your surgery is extremely successful!


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## daisydukemom

*Duke elbow surgery*

Our yellow lab Duke just had surgery 3 weeks ago. This is his second surgery this year, as the first surgeon apparently didn't know what he was doing. It is the most frustrating thing in the world to my husband and I to have had a second surgery on our poor Duke. We are not able to have children, so quite literally Duke and his sister Daisy are our pride and joy! He had been doing so much better this time around, until a couple of days ago when he started limping quite bad again. My heart breaks and I almost start to cry when I see him limping again. The thought that the surgery did not work and we put our buddy through all of this again is just too much to bear. Have any of you experienced your dogs limping severly after their surgery? I'm just at a loss and just want him to feel better. He is such a good dog and loves to play and run with us and his sister, I want to give that back to him.
Any thoughts and words of wisdom would mean the world to our family...
:crossfing


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## Karen519

*Bumping*

bumping this topic up for responses.


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## tippykayak

daisydukemom said:


> Our yellow lab Duke just had surgery 3 weeks ago. This is his second surgery this year, as the first surgeon apparently didn't know what he was doing. It is the most frustrating thing in the world to my husband and I to have had a second surgery on our poor Duke. We are not able to have children, so quite literally Duke and his sister Daisy are our pride and joy! He had been doing so much better this time around, until a couple of days ago when he started limping quite bad again. My heart breaks and I almost start to cry when I see him limping again. The thought that the surgery did not work and we put our buddy through all of this again is just too much to bear. Have any of you experienced your dogs limping severly after their surgery? I'm just at a loss and just want him to feel better. He is such a good dog and loves to play and run with us and his sister, I want to give that back to him.
> Any thoughts and words of wisdom would mean the world to our family...
> :crossfing


Do you remember what kind of surgery it was? I think in order to help you better, people would need to know the specific problem it was supposed to correct and what surgical option was taken each time in trying to fix it.

If you don't know, well, we're still a supportive group.


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## Yarra girl

*Limping post op*

Very sorry to hear about Duke's post-op limping. Our specialist said we could ice Ben's elbows if they seemed hot or swollen - now that would mean sitting next to him with a cool pack in eg a pillow case and care not to cause a cold burn but I would consider it. I wouldn't go longer than 20 mins though and be guided by him - sometimes they welcome it as it feels good and sometimes they hate it. Is Duke also on supplements/injections to help his joint fluid? I hope it all settles down soon and if it was his elbows, that new cartilage is growing and bedding down. Our specilaist centre also said to put down mats or avoid slippery surfaces so he is not dealing with 'sideways' joint pressure for a month or so .... we all know how they get the "ScoobyDoo legs" when they are in a hurry on those tiles!


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## Yarra girl

*Ben update*

Ben update: (4 and 1/2 weeks after surgery) 
Today I let him walk along our local shopfronts for about 5 minutes as I am taking him with me sometimes instead of leaving him home in his crate. He "walked the ramp" out of the car and was just so happy to be out and social again, meeting people other than our vet team! 
His fur is growing back nicely, looks like he's had some creative clipping :
He's now out on the deck re-aclimatising to the world while Tessa is inside enjoying _her_ place next to me and giving him the 'now it's my turn' look.


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## suemarc

I'm sorry to hear about the limping! I certainly understand the frustration!! 

Pendo is now 6 months post surgery for fcp, and still has a slight limp. He has been on only leash walks and swimming only for exercise and we restrict the wrestling with his sister, so that he is only on his back and not using his bad leg. My understanding from the orthopedic vet is that while there are contributing factors (fast growth, over exercise) that can contribute to the severity of the condition, the configuration of the elbow is set, and no amount of rest would change that. 

We are giving him IM adequan, and cosequin 2X a day. From reading these posts, I will start him on Fish oil. Any recommendations on the brand? Metacam doesn't seem to make a difference, so we stopped that. I'm worried that he might have another fragment, since he still limps, even though it's not too bad. I would love to let him run and play, but the pain specialist recommended restricting him for another 4 months to reduce the development of arthritic tissue, which is most active post surgery.

In addition to swimming therapy, we have taken him to see a chiropractor, though it hasn't helped yet. At this point I'll try anything!

Hope everyone's surgeries are successful, and that the limping resolves soon!!


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## daisydukemom

*Duke recovery*

Thank you all for your encouragement. It means the world to my husband and I to listen to other people who have been through, going through, or just willing to listen to us nervous parents! Most of our family and friends think we're crazy for having done the surgury, not once, but twice!

Duke had the arthroscopy surgury done both times. Once in January this year and the latest done at the beginning of Oct. in Fort Collins CSU. If any one is in this area and need medical help for your pet, CSU is the place to go. Our Dr. has been fantastic at reassuring us we're not idiots and Duke will be just fine. 

He had a much better weekend and we're not sure if it is because we put him back on the Tramadol or if he just is feeling better. He limps much less frequently and even took a ride in our mini van to get out and see the world. 

The interesting thing is, last year we replaced all the carpeting in our house and put in hard wood flooring, because of the dogs and the wear and tear and basically my frustration with vacuuming every day! Now that floor is our nemisis! We have rugs all over the place, but he still has Scooby Doo moments. 

Please keep me updated on all your beloved family members and we will as well. Recovery roads are the hardest! Both on pets and family.


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## daisydukemom

*I forgot*

Our Dr. also recommended putting Duke on the fish oil, but to also use Chondrontin and Glucosamine supplements. He told us to use the "human" version of supplements as they cost much less and are just as effective. We give him two of each every day. He is a super picky pill popper, so we smear in PB and he loves pill popping time now!


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## Yarra girl

*Ben can go for walks again !*

Week 7 post op ............ specialist says Ben's elbow flexion is really good for this stage, and we can start walking him for 30 minutes on lead. Up to now he has been allowed to wander around the house and backyard within reason, and day boarding at the vet's when I work so he and Tessa don't run around or wrestle.
It is daylight saving here now, and 28 degrees tonight so I am looking forward to him checking his "pee-mail" as we go for a wander this evening. 
Hope the others in this "club" are doing well also


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## daisydukemom

Congratulations on Ben! Sounds like he is healing well and you all will be recovering quickly! I completely understand the "pee-mail". Even if I'm in a hurry, Daisy and Duke have a lot of checking in to do.

I didn't realize Ben was only about a week ahead of Duke on the surgery. Poor Ben had both legs done though. It's amazing that can be done. 

Duke is really sick of being cooped up inside and is so looking forward to his days outside again. My husband took him to the local park to visit the ducks as chasing ducks in the winter is a favorite pasttime for them. He only was given a couple of minutes, but he enjoyed each one. 
It's funny, but Duke occassionally limps slightly in the house, but you get him outside and presto....limp free! Our vet calls it selective limping for loving!!! He is doing really well. We have our next vet visit next week......


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## Maxs Mom

Glad both dogs are on the mend.... I haven't done elbows, but I have done hips and knee surgery on a couple dogs. The whole process is nerve wracking but sounds like the worst is getting past you now. 

My Teddi has bad elbows, so far I am managing them. She had hip surgery doubt we can afford to do her elbows. We will have to see if the time ever comes. Her hip was EXPENSIVE and not covered by insurance.


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## Yarra girl

Thanks for keeping this thread going, and for the updates on Duke. The limp can be more noticeable 'on rising' eg after lying down for a while which is how I picked Ben's up so maybe it is Duke just 'easing into' his run etc? I think Ben is going to keep his funny little round-legged trot - when he first walks or trots he keeps his elbows stiff to avoid bending them - not noticeable at all if he gets above a trot! This may improve over time, but I will be happy either way as long as he is not in pain
Good luck for Teddi, too - at least he is being treated and helped conservatively which will slow down the arthritic changes - better than not knowing !


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## Ljilly28

I agree about the nerve-wracking part for the recovery period. It feels so good when a new normal is established.


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## Smithlab

*Post-surgery progress?*

Not sure if anyone is still following this discussion. I was interested in Yarra Girl's lab, as my gorgeous 6 1/2 month old lab boy had arthroscopic surgery in Melbourne yesterday. Sadly, he had the double whammy - both elbows affected with FCP and OCD. We were a bit surprised, as he wasn't limping too badly, and sometimes we thought we were imagining it! (Clearly not!:doh I'm just wondering how dogs such as Ben have gone nearly a year down the track, and how soon after the surgery you started taking him for short on-lead walks (as opposed to out for pee walks). Hope all is going well.:crossfing


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## Yarra girl

Hi - just belting out a quick reply from work - same as Ben - double whammy both elbows and we wondered if we were imagining the limp also! Just a little after rising and he is such a lab he just shook it off and kept going - both elbows bad although he only favoured the worst.
I will be in touch better from home - have you got a crate? mine I can get if you need - be in touch soon 
Yarra


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## Yarra girl

OK back again - looking back at my posts I think it was 7 weeks and he was onto 30 min *on-lead* walks ..... you will get there! I also put in the post-op pics 
Fast forward to current-day and he was belting around the Brighton dog-beach Monday with the best of them ..... and a little bit of therapeutic swimming to keep me happy. He is overdue for his latest cartrophen injection so will be in tomorrow or Monday, and is on Sasha's blend. You can do it cheaper with human fish oil and chondroitin capsules, specialist said that is fine but I just like the whole blend etc of Sasha's (buy it online through Trixan pet for a good saving) 
Ben went to the Melbourne Specialist Veterinary Centre and his surgeon was Dr Pete Laverty - good job.
He is a lovely boy, 30 kg, and people ask me "is a lab" as he is 'skinny' !!! such a bad owner I am keeping him in a healthy weight range  Vet is happy, he is happy and healthy so that is all that counts 
OK hope your lad is coping OK so far, be guided by his team and don't be afraid to ring them with any questions
Yarra


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## Smithlab

*The guilts*

The difficulty for us is that we both work full-time. Consequently, we have chosen to have Lucca out at the boarding kennels, where they are great, experienced and well set up with a small separate pen for post-surgery recovery. I have great faith in them, but as they are a 40-45 drive out of town, day-boarding is not an option which means we're going to have to have him there for 3-4 weeks. Our 8 yr old mini lab is missing him, as are we, but we think the rest AND the company are very important, so his care is not directly in our hands  He has his stitches out on Monday, but we're not going to go as we don't want him to get overexcited and think he's coming home. He will have his first Cartrophen injection, and the kennels will administer the subsequent weeks' injections. The staff have suggested it's very sad seeing him so constrained, but I'm trying to convince myself that at least we've done what we can, and that this month or so of being away and restricted will mean better movement and life in the longer term. I wish there were a guarantee! 
My other concern is that we've always taken our dogs to obedience at 6 months - and he REALLY needs work on heeling. When he's excited he just pulls, and I'm worried that even short leash walks might be lots of pressure. 
Finally, the specialist (Sam Snelling, Advanced Vetcare, very good) has recommended putting him on random supermarket adult food rather than the premium puppy food we had him on. It seems he's concerned not with protein but "super nutrition". It's very confusing! No one seems to have the same opinion. The kennels can't believe he'd take him off Royal Canin Lab (junior)... They did say the hills jd was an option, but I've found Jointguard supplement better (and we used Sasha's blend for years also). 
Glad to hear that your boy is well - does he limp at all now? Does he get to play off-lead? I wish we were near a beach or hydro pool, but we're 2 1/2 hrs from Melbourne. I guess I'm just after reassurance that Lucca has a good chance of lots of good days. :wavey: thanks for your help.


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## Yarra girl

Oh, wow. You must miss him but given your circumstances I think you have come up with a good solution - I was worried Ben was too mobile too soon post-op ( he thought his name was "No-No-don't-jump" !) so this enforced quiet time could be a good investment. Ben lived in his crate with just toilet breaks - hard to explain to them isn't it! The kids shared sleeping on the camp mattress next to him so he had company, and Tessa was in is well but that was frustrating too. He has a very special relationship with 'the duck' and had lots of kongs with peanut butter. The duck used to go to day boarding with him and would be placed in his hanging water pan each time by Ben ..... needed a swim!
Just so sorry you are all missing each other. I'm sure they have lots of busy toys for him and the early cartrophens will really help. 

Now: Ben is a mighty bouncy boy still, and no-one who meets him can believe he has had elbow surgery - he runs around flat out and does not limp. He gets regular off-lead time and plays hard. Even jumping out of the back of our car was OK'd by the specialist though I tend to reverse to kerbs if I can so he is not dropping far and we used his little ramp for ages. Part of my earlier posting was to see if any dogs had an altered gait as I still think Ben has a little stiff-round-front-leg action happening when he trots but of course when he gallops ( yes he gallops full on ) you would never know. He had another cartrophen this week and his shoulder musculature is not suggesting to the vet any mis-balance in his front end. We do try to keep him low impact and lean to reduce the pressure on those joints and he will get some arthritis, but not at 2 yo as he would have without surgery (and then it would have been too late to help) - the specialist thinks he will do really well and age pretty normally. Lucca will be bedding down new cartilage now so you are right to keep him so quiet but it won't be forever. Just getting the confidence to let him run, even when the specialsit says it OK, will be another thing.

So - hang in there! Ben is maturing really nicely ( having such a gentle GR with him helps) and walks really nicely on lead so there _is_ hope for Lucca. You may be pleasantly surprised with the work they have done with him at the kennels. I think Ben became a more patient and focussed dog because of his enforced quiet time. I have been through so many different training methods with different dogs and have settled on 'loose lead walking' for Ben. He is so into his food (surprise! duck jerky cut into little bits is the favourite) that he looks for the reward all the time! Lots of calm verbal praise when is is in the 'right spot' and he nows knows where he belongs. He tends to walk to the right if I have them on 2 leads or if someone else walks with me, but on the split lead he muscles in to be closest to me (closer to the food) and Tessa is happy to swing wide and get the better sniff-position  

Hope you get to see him soon, keep us updated
Yarra


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## Smithlab

Lucca was 7 months old on Friday - next Friday he comes home!:wavy: Can you tell me what food you had your Ben on (our old lab/golden retriever cross who passed away this year was a Bentley; gorgeous big boy)? I think we might keep him on half the Royal Canin Junior Lab and half very ordinary adult food e.g. Supercoat, as the specialist and the vet can't seem to agree... The photo of them snoozing in the sun is from about 3 week before surgery - and he was nearly as big as his sister already (she's a mini-lab).


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## Ljilly28

I completely understand going to a lower nutrition food for OCD or Pano, or the bone twist from overnutrition(HUD or something), but in this case I think you are fine to feed him a nice quality food if his weight stays good.


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## Yarra girl

Great picture  and very exciting he will be home soon. Good luck with the 'gentle, gentle GENTLE !!!' reintroduction - you will all be OK.
Ben has been on Hills science diet (large breed puppy and now just large breed) since he was weaned, not a lot of fans of this brand though. I purposely kept him on it as I regarded it as 'slow release' dog food : to try and keep his long bones under control re rapid growth and so prevent problems eg for hips and elbows ..... fat lot of good that did ! but his seems mostly inherited. I also planned to desex him later for the same effect on his long bones but decided to bring it forward when he started his little-limping as he needed an aneasthetic for that (hoping that maybe the films would be Ok) and I didn't want to put him through 2 if I could avoid it. Well, you know how that went! 
Anyhoo, he remains on large breed adult predominantly, recently with some supercoat added to mix it up a bit, bones about twice a week ( they know when they have a long day outside eg me working!) raw veg scraps, egg, occasional bland table scraps etc. I have our GR on the same mix and her coat seems softer. She gets Sasha's blend about once a week and Ben gets it every night. I wait for the Petstock sales and buy 15kg bags at 20% off ..... the supercoat was REALLY on special last time I was there hence the dilution of the science diet ( about half a cup to every cup SD). Ben is sitting at 30kg and is 'lean and low impact' as I like to say. Upsetting at times when people ask if he is a labrador as he is not fat! and his brother's owner had me scurrying to the vet for a waiting room-weigh and reassurance when she was shocked he was 'so skinny' - ouch. I am a little ( OK a lot) rounded but the dogs are really good weights, especially Tessa who is petite. Your older lab looks beautiful - not sure what a mini-lab is though ?
Good luck for the big reunion, you have given him a great chance of his best potential by really resting him.
Yarra
ps which corner of Vic are you in? we are good old outer eastern suburbs


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## Smithlab

*Indecisive on food!*

He did have OCD AND FCP in both elbows. I've suggested the surgeon put some serious research out there for people! I'm thinking I'll go 50-50 (somewhere between the specialist and everyone else!)


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## Yarra girl

Ben had the same 2 problems, both elbows .....


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## Smithlab

*He's home!*

We picked Lucca up from the kennels on Friday afternoon: one very excited puppy. You were right about "Gentle...GENTLE". However, he's generally great about getting in his pen, although he tries to give Murphy his toys through the wire! We have decided to go half way to the surgeon's suggestion on diet, so half Royal Canin Lab Ret Junior, half adult Supercoat, at least for another couple of months. He's come back from the kennel a little stockier than we'd like, so we'll be on a slimming regime. He does seem to have a bit of a limp still (slight, mostly) but apparently 'elbow dysplasia is for life' and the surgery obviously doesn't remove the relatively small amount of arthritis that existed at the time they did the arthroscopy. We're hoping that maybe some of the lameness might go away over the next four weeks of healing (he's four weeks out from surgery now). Not sure if that's unrealistic. Whatever the case, he doesn't seem in pain and is a very happy boy. We're only on five minute walks morning and night this week, ten next etc. I'm home (after getting my wisdom teeth out tomorrow:uhoh for the next three weeks, so he'll have lots of company and some serious lead training. He's only good in short bursts and if he sees ANYTHING exciting, which means almost anything, he pulls. So heel-pull-sit-heel-walk!-pull-turn around and go back-heel-stop. We'll get there - he's pretty clever! We are in North Central Vic, 2 hours from Melbourne, so we won't be going back for check ups. The vet here seems happy with him, so I'm trying to relax. Even when he jumps when he shouldn't! Thanks for listening. The specialist says he'll be able to run on the beach at Christmas, which is something to look forward to.


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## Yarra girl

Great news, thanks for the update. I think Ben has a permanently altered gait at low speed trots - he tends to keep his elbows a bit straight and throw his paws forward in a little circle. At full gallop he looks fine! He has taken to leaping from the back patio over the steps and onto concrete path .... will have to devise an obstacle to make him use the stairs again. He also does not sit straight, always with his bum to the side - not sure if he did this before though. Looking at his puppy pics I can see he sat with paws rotated out ..... a sign, apparently. No-one told me! 
Poor Lucca, having to diet  Ben thought he was dying as I had to reduce his meals ( amount not frequency) to allow for all his crate-treats. Hope you are enjoying have him home 
'every day in every way he's gettin' better and better' 

ps Ben had a weigh in today at 30.2 kg so sitting pretty stable .... unfortunately had an emergency local vet visit last week after abrading half his lower eyelid away ..... no idea! but having a 2 dog household this is another injury to add to the list. I think he was running around their 'race track' and was pushed wide maybe by our GR and scraped his face on the trunk of a small apricot tree. We have pet insurance on both for big problems ( $500 excess to keep premiums low) so had to absorb that one. Oh well - he got to day-board with his friends again as had to work the next day and he was getting his back leg under the E-collar ....... doh! Now I'm worried the dark pigment won't grow back around his eye and he will have a half-pink lower lid, will have to wait and see.


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## Smithlab

Oh, that sounds horrible! There's only so much protection you can give - I hope he gets his colour back :crossfing. We still don't have insurance - I think this (in 4 dogs) is the first time I've thought we would have benefited, and as you say, the excess gets complicated. Too late for elbow dysplasia coverage! I think the stay in the kennels has further developed Lucca's personality traits. He can be absolutely calm, goes into pen no worries, currently sleeping in the next room in the morning sun while I'm on the couch with icepacks on my face :.Perfect Puppy And then there's super-excitable, must speak to every woman/man/dog/vet RIGHT now. He's ridiculously excited on the Lino floors at the vets. If we have to wait now we ask to go into a spare consult room, cos I'm not sure it's good for his legs. Onto monthly catrophen injections now - same as old Murphy.did I explain 'mini-lab'? She was sold as a lab but is clearly a cross, given she's 22.5 kg pocket-rocket. Perfect size actually (our big old Ben,golden x was a slim 38.5 kg!) he's bigger than her already. His predicted adult weight was ~35 kg. I'm thinking maybe aim for 32. It's good your Ben is nice and light. Thanks for staying in touch. Hopefully I'll be stress free in a month or two!


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## Yarra girl

Ice packs?? ...... wisdom teeth ? !
Hope you recover quickly from whatever it is  
You and Lucca convalescing together .......
ps good idea about keeping him off the lino, we joke at the Vet's that Ben thinks his name is "no-no-don't-jump"


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## Yarra girl

OK I now thought to read back one ..... wisdom teeth. 
I remember - KFC mashed potato and Fruche yoghurts - erk. 
Soon your ice pack time will be a distant memory too!


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## Smithlab

Yeah, not being able to use the soup spoon to eat the soup, cos it's too big, is fun. So, the dual recuperation is working well, Murph at a friend's place for a couple of nights (where she gets to sleep inside, on the bed!!) We enjoyed the morning sun here today, and ordered a BIG Nylabone, as he likes the little one a lot. (I won't scare you with a photo of my chipmunk face).:yuck:


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## Yarra girl

Great pic, he is gorgeous!


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## Smithlab

*6 weeks post surgery for elbow dysplasia*

Well, in case there are any people out there madly Googling elbow dysplasia - here's some more of Lucca's story. He's been home for two weeks now after the four weeks in the kennels. He's on ten minute leash walks this week, up to fifteen next week. The vet checked him when we went in for the other dog's Cartrophen injection, and thought he was looking good, although there is some joint effusion or swelling in his elbows. The specialist says that is to be expected at this point, and to keep going with the increasing exercise. He is definitely a bit limpy, and his gait is (and I'm guessing always will be) quite funny, but he doesn't seem to be in pain at all, although he was a little stiff for half a minute after getting up from a three hour nap yesterday. He is still on pen rest or supervised off lead in the house, i.e. if he looks like wanting to play with his 'sister' (he does really want to share toys), or run around the lounge, then he's usually straight back in his pen. We are still giving him reduced food - half junior, half adult, to try and get him skinnier (he'd be a great weight for a dog without dodgy elbows). I'm beginning to think that his particular combo of double whammy (like Ben) in both elbows, plus being a big boy, is not going to result in the best possible outcome. However, hopefully we can keep him fairly pain free for much longer than he would have been without the surgery. He really is the most adorable dog!


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## Willoughby

Hi all. My little man, Willoughby, who is nine months old today, is having elbow surgery this morning for FCP, just on his left elbow as the lesions aren't present on his right elbow. I'm not sure what to expect when we pick him up tomorrow morning.

Willoughby was diagnosed with hip and elbow dysplasia this week. Poor little love. His hips 'click' when we're out on a lead walk and this is how we knew something was wrong.... little did we know that he had bad elbows too!

My husband and I are both teachers and we asked the specialist if we should wait until our November holidays to get the surgery done, but he said no. His thinking was that Willoughby will be quietest and resting when we're out of the house. I'm not looking forward to going back to work next week and leaving him home. The plan is to keep him confined to a pen/crate or in our small laundry (it's a well ventilated and cool spot)... but what about toilet breaks?

What I'm not also looking forward to most of all is his planned DAR surgery for the hip dysplasia. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced or knows someone who has experienced DAR surgery before? Come summer time he's going to deserve a big holiday that's for sure! 

Thanks also for the information in the previous messages. I have been frantically "Googling" for information about recoveries for both surgeries. For those of you in Australia, I was wondering what the cost of your surgeries have been? I am overwhelmed by the prices. We were very lucky and we took out the top level RSPCA pet insurance as soon as we brought him home, but I really feel for those who don't have insurance. 

Also, bed-wise, what do you recommend for post-operative care? We've already been to Bunnings to buy metres of non-slip matting for our tiles and floorboards...

Thanks again for your earlier comments... you've helped me without even knowing


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## Yarra girl

Oh, good luck to your Willoughby! he is gorgeous too!
and thanks for the update on Lucca - I started this thread hoping it would help others as I had no idea what to expect in the recovery period.
Some sound like they have never limped and have a normal gait - Ben did not limp after but has an altered gait. No swelling either, sorry - but you can ice pack it if they will let you sit with them. The earlier the better for elbows too so waiting til holidays not so good - our specialist said if he had become worse at 2 yo there would not have been a lot they could do. Willoughby sounds like he should do very well with 1/3 possible problems on one side only - Ben and Lucca copped 2/3 on both elbows. Not much known about hip surgery by me but there is lots on the forum and also GRR ( Golden retriever rescue Sydney have "Lacey's story" on their website which could be very helpful to you) 
I also wondered about the toileting also with crates ... was told by someone on the forum "that's why you crate train them" - bladder training? I would rather they not distend their bladders and get regular toilet breaks - hence our Vet day-boarded Ben for us when I was at work ( $20 a day and they did it again recently when he had an eye problem - I am very thankful to them ) I just looked up his insurance forms and his surgery was about $2,800 - add the referral visit and XRays prior so say about $3500 total - then add the boredom busters and treats!!

Just wondering how you are going getting Lucca in and out of car - that was my biggest worry I think though Ben just jumps out now though I try to reverse up to a kerb so he has less distance to jump down. I was hard to stop using his ramp ( recycled door!) once he was allowed though.


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## Smithlab

Oh, hips and elbows, that mustn't be at all stressful for you or Willoughby - much! We had Lucca on conservative rest for a week at home before we tried surgery (and a week crated at the kennels). During the day, we farmed out our other dog and kept Lucca in his kennel and a very small area out into the grassed yard - not much more than a square metre, where he could go to the loo but absolutely not run anywhere. Otherwise, people must be available to take the dog out every four hours, I would imagine, which we could certainly not. That's why we put him in the kennels for four weeks post-surgery: they're really good at our kennels and we just couldn't do it working full time (both teachers here too). I'm thinking that you will find it much more manageable with only one dog.

Timing-wise we were also advised to go with earlier is better, and it worked well as the initial four week period ran into me having the last week off for wisdom teeth surgery plus two weeks of holidays. So, when we go back next week, he will be up to the 8th week. We will leave him and Murphy in their small, fenced off area of the back yard, maybe 3 metres by 3 (plus their big kennel). They've been practising for short periods and overnight (yes, we've been getting up VERY early as soon as he starts barking at Murphy to play... thank goodness daylight saving has turned it into 6.30 instead of 5.30 am!) The surgeon says they can have the run of the back yard after 8 weeks, but I'm a bit nervous...

We purchased the rubber mats from Bunnings for around the doors, and some very unattractive carpet squares from Spotlight, for our kitchen/slate area. We've had a ramp that has been quite handy (we got it for the old dog when his back legs got dodgy late last year, from a local pet shop). However, Murphy bounced off it yesterday and finally made it one section shorter (it folded up well for the car) but we had to stick non-slip carpet on it or it had a horrible plasticky feel/sound. It folded up into four, very light, still works at the shorter length for the back door. So, we're in the market for a new one, the best one is expensive and only available from the U.S., but I might email about the cost (ramp4paws) or get a Solvit one here - they seem OK. I just think he's not ready to jump out of the car now, or for a while, and he's getting too heavy to lift.

If you don't want him in the laundry all the time (and we didn't have a crate at all) we bought a pen (well, three in the end, as they were useful for keeping him out of other areas when used separately) from Cheap as Chips, the discount store. I'll try to attach a photo that I took just now. He goes into that if he looks like wanting to do any rough play with Murphy, and was in it all the time initially. I have to confess (more guilt!) that this morning we were happily letting him wander outside for a sniff, but he came inside, licked Murphy, play growled and took off down the ramp around the back yard with her in pursuit in an absolute 'bolt'. NOT HAPPY! Hopefully it won't set him back.:uhoh:, Yarragirl, I've noticed he DOES turn his front left foot out when standing, and that's the one that he seems to limp on, even though the arthroscope showed the other to be worse affected. 

I hope Willoughby does well - it sounds as if the hips might be a bigger deal for him than his elbows, so:crossing and I hope things go as well as they possibly can. It sounds as if he's very lucky in his owners.


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## Ljilly28

Smithlab said:


> He did have OCD AND FCP in both elbows. I've suggested the surgeon put some serious research out there for people! I'm thinking I'll go 50-50 (somewhere between the specialist and everyone else!)


With OCD, I do think the lower protein food is important.

My Tango is an ambitious athletic dog, and both of her parents are MH dogs with go and gusto. This makes me so sad for her. She has soooo much drive to work, but her elbows are so extremely bad, she just can't. The vet says the more she overdoes it as a young dog, the more she will have arthritis as an old dog, as her FCP means there is no padding left inside her joints. However, the surgery made a miracle difference, and you would not know anything was wrong.


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## Smithlab

*elbow dysplasia future*

It's good to hear that Tango is doing well, even though she'd rather do more - does she get many off-lead runs these days? I'm hoping Lucca's temperament is laid back enough for him not to feel he's missing out on too much... 

The research thus far has suggested protein alone is not really a factor - it seems to be the whole 'super nutrition' package that some (like our specialist) are suggesting is a problem. I just wish they'd do some more research so owners like us weren't left guessing and guilty! It's very hard to know what to do. I'm trying to go with getting the doggies to enjoy each day, and not worrying too much about the gazillion things outside my control!


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## Willoughby

Thank you all for your comments and advice. Willoughby is ten days post surgery now and it turns out he had FCP and OCD. It was such a shock to see him walk out with his big bandage on - he looked so happy to see us though. 

Speaking of bandages, it was somewhat of a relief for his bandages to be removed, but now he's back to thinking he's healthy. It turns out that the specialist was right - he's quieter when we're not home than when we are. He is doing really well hanging out in the laundry when we're at work - no toilet issues at all. When we're upstairs together, we keep him in our small lounge/kitchen. This is okay, but he loves to be wherever I am, so that means if I'm making a cup of tea, he has to be there watching, hovering... We give him the tiniest sliver of Ace (1/8th of 25mg) just to keep him calm - a quarter knocks him out and I don't like seeing him sooooo dopey. 

Diet wise, I say that Willoughby is now on the supermodel diet. He's now eating one Dr Bob's kangaroo patties at night, with Glyde mixed in. In the morning he has one small lamb bone to chew on. Gone are the days of him eating kangaroo lumbar or tails (these were his favourites!) in the evening as he watched his favourite television shows (anything with white moving animals, polar bears especially!) His new treat is raw carrots. He loves these! Another specialist recommended Hills Prescription Diet J/D. He also suggested getting him on to fish oil. Lots to do diet wise. 

We're going back to see the specialist in a month and I think that's when we'll be having the big hip surgery discussion. I'm really nervous about it... Darthroplasty is a big surgery and I don't think it's very common. 

Thank you all for your advice... this forum is a god send! 

P.S The E Collar is on because he wanted to eat the bandages and now he wants to nibble at the wound. He also appeared to have some irritation from the tape beneath the bandages, so we're rubbing some antibiotic and steroid cream on every morning.


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## k9love

Hi,
Just been reading all your posts on ED.

I now have a Lab pup since I lost Ted my Golden earlier in the year.
Researched well in to breeding of him as Ive always had Labs and know the problems they can have.

Just goes to show research isnt much good!

Woody's parents both have 00 elbow scores and he has ED:doh:

He had FCP in right and FCP and OCD in left.

He had his OP a week ago today, seems to be doing well but he's a real jumper! I do crate him most of the time but he gets so bored so I have him in one room with me, and all of a sudden he will just spring into the air!

I cant believe he has ED, we were so careful not to let him run or play too rough!

Im worried now tho about him not being socialised as much as he should be, I wonder if he will be ok around other dogs after not seeing one for ages, he is my only dog now so doesnt even have interaction with a dog at home.

Im dreading the next few weeks, how on earth can I keep him occupied?
I do the treat hiding etc, give him marrow bones but even they dont keep him happy for long!

Anyway sorry to ramble on.
Its been interesting reading other peoples experiences with ED but I do feel for you all.

Heres hoping for a long limp free life to all of us


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## Smithlab

So sorry to hear about Woody (our first dog was a Woody, and he was gorgeous!) I don't envy you - crating or a pen really seem to be the only way to keep them rested. After having Lucca at the kennels for four weeks, we still had him only on lead inside, and mostly in a pen for a couple more weeks. Now he's doing very well, although our new-found paranoia is worry about hip dysplasia as he's bunny hopping now he's allowed to run around a bit, 9 weeks post surgery. I know what you mean about the leaping: Lucca is 8 months now, but he still sometimes goes from sitting quietly to actually jumping onto the knee of the person on the couch! Not me, lately. Other stories suggest that once you get past the initial recovery period, there are lots of happy days to look forward to. Our puppy was on his own all the time at the kennels (well, he wasn't allowed near other dogs) , and his sociable nature doesn't seem to have suffered at all. We are still training him not to be too enthusiastic when we run into other dogs on our twice daily walks (he does 20-25 minutes now, no worries). Has Woody started on Cartrophen (pentosan) injections yet? We've decided, after the initial round of four, to do monthly ones for a few months, while he's growing. Fingers crossed for all.


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## k9love

Smithlab said:


> So sorry to hear about Woody (our first dog was a Woody, and he was gorgeous!) I don't envy you - crating or a pen really seem to be the only way to keep them rested. After having Lucca at the kennels for four weeks, we still had him only on lead inside, and mostly in a pen for a couple more weeks. Now he's doing very well, although our new-found paranoia is worry about hip dysplasia as he's bunny hopping now he's allowed to run around a bit, 9 weeks post surgery. I know what you mean about the leaping: Lucca is 8 months now, but he still sometimes goes from sitting quietly to actually jumping onto the knee of the person on the couch! Not me, lately. Other stories suggest that once you get past the initial recovery period, there are lots of happy days to look forward to. Our puppy was on his own all the time at the kennels (well, he wasn't allowed near other dogs) , and his sociable nature doesn't seem to have suffered at all. We are still training him not to be too enthusiastic when we run into other dogs on our twice daily walks (he does 20-25 minutes now, no worries). Has Woody started on Cartrophen (pentosan) injections yet? We've decided, after the initial round of four, to do monthly ones for a few months, while he's growing. Fingers crossed for all.


Hi,
Thanks for your reply.
Know what you mean about being paranoid! I have the same fear with Woody's back end, too much googling I think:doh:
Maybe the bunny hopping with your pup is because he's been confined and not been able to stretch his legs?

Its so hard trying to keep him calm tho, today he had a "mad moment" and you just cant stop him!
I find myself losing my temper because I would hate him to have a set back now, I know I should'nt because its not his fault.
I often wonder if he's ever going to have a "normal" life, I took so much time in finding him from a good breeder because the one thing I didnt want was ED!

He goes back to the vets on Wed this week for his stitches out and he will then start Cartrophen injections, Ive had dogs on Cartrophen before tho and didnt seem to have great results albeit they were old dogs with arthritis.

Fortunatley vet said Woody showed no signs of arthritis when he did the scope which is good but he will get it when older because of the surgery.

Im also going to ask vet if he can go to Hydrotherapy, I used to take Ted for his spine problems and it really worked for him, might be a task in itself tho as Woody has never really seen water yet

I'll try and post a picture of Woody, small world isnt it ? your other dog having the same name


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## Willoughby

I have to agree that keeping them quiet after surgery is hard work! Willoughby is excellent during the day when we're at work because he just relaxes in the laundry... when we arrive home though it's another story! His favourite spot to sit is on the couch, but the specialist's instructions read "no jumping on the couch". It is very frustrating. 

I would be interested in learning more about hydrotheraphy. Our vet didn't mention it, but it sounds like something Willoughby would benefit from. I can tell that some of his current behaviours stem from the fact that he is bored silly. We do some clicker training with him, but he tires of this.

The other hard thing for us is having to restrict his diet so that he doesn't put on weight. He doesn't quite know where the 'off' switch is when it comes to food. On the plus side, he can eat as many raw carrots as he likes and he does seem to enjoy them. Once a week he gets a raw roo tail for dinner to keep him occupied. I also invested in some bully sticks. Uggggh... I learnt after I bought them what they were made from...

We're off to see the vet specialist in a couple of weeks for a check up. I'm not looking forward to this at all because this is when we have the hip surgery discussion. Elbow surgery seems like a walk in the park compared to his proposed DARthroplasty.... 

I hope all of your babies are doing well....


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## Yarra girl

Oh no, another boy joins the club we don't want to be in!
Good luck for Willoughby's specialist appt, and hope Lucca is nearly back to normal now he has some free reign 
Woody - such a masculine looking young dog! he has a good chest, I give our Ben a bit of grief as he seems to have a narrow front end which I think is related to his early-life posture .... a lovely face though and so soft so we forgive him. 
Someone mentioned bunny hopping .........!!! Ben went to day boarding when I had to work - we joke he thinks his name is 'no-no-don't- jump' but this hopping business has become his specialty - more like a kangaroo now though! He just bounces around on his hind legs, up to 10 bounces at a time - knows he is not to jump on us but still thinks he can can jump around us Even confiscating THE DUCK which guarantees his undivided attention so he sits for a pat ( trying to reinforce calm and sit = good attention but he can only manage the sit part!) only works for a few seconds .... boing boing boing.He takes a few minutes and then he calms down - luckily Tessa is a good role model, she comes in and sits next to my leg - immediate pats - but she has taken to bringing us THE DUCK for some extra attention ( she gets it all right - when he sees she has it! So then she gets the de-stuffed yellow duck and carries the pathetic thing around until he takes that off her too.) 
Wonder if the hopping is part of their compensating for dodgy elbows ?? I read they turn their front paws in a bit when they have the pain pre - surgery - which I can now see lookng back at his puppy pics doh so maybe hopping is another thing - less front end impact on each jump?

So - sending best wishes to Woody as well and very sorry it happened when you did your best to avoid it with his pedigree. 

Look forward to more installments as we create this life-experience-journal for others .......
Yarra


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## Yarra girl

I thinks that's a resting sit of turning their front paws OUT a bit ....


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## k9love

Woody does the hopping thing too, not when he runs but jumps straight into the air! from a standstill

Hydrotherapy is supposed to be great for elbow/hip problems, I was told not to go before surgery tho because of the reaching out movement of the front legs.
I used to take Ted as I said and it worked wonders for his spine problem, will post a pic of him in his life jacket and hat, he hated water but did what I asked of him, he was a brave boy

Dont know about the other pups on this thread but Woody seems depressed and is not responding to me like he used too? all that training going to waste

Anyway must go try to entertain him a bit now, its evening here and he's been alone a lot of the day.

Hope all the pups are doing good today

Oh heres Ted


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## Yarra girl

Oh, Ted, what a great picture - hope he loved it - I think he needed a water-polo ball not a tennis ball !
Hope Woody is OK ... hang in there


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## k9love

Hi again all.

Hows the ED patients doing?

Woody has had his stitches out and his wounds are nearly healed.

Asked vet about Hydro for Woody and he said no way, not for at least a few months personaly I think it would do him good but have to take vets advice, anyone else done Hydro after ED surgey? would like to know how they got on?

Finding the keeping him quiet very hard he feels a lot better and obviously wants to run!

Had to stop the pain killers too, they were making Woody sick

Hope your all doing well.


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## Smithlab

*Getting there*

Lucca is now 4 1/2 months post his double elbow surgery and is traveling pretty well. He has had two lots of acupuncture (we are lucky to have specialist spinal vet in the region) partly as we were worried that he was bunny hopping a bit, although that has reduced now. We had 9 nights at the beach over Christmas and he had a great time on the off lead dog beach, his lack of socialization (compared to our other dogs, due to penning post surgery, and not going to obedience) didn't hinder him, he chatted with every dog and human he met. He ran quite a bit and played a lot, although we were never on the beach for more than 45 mins, usually 30. (he also loved sniffing the dead birds that turned uo on the high tide line. :no: It was great to see him so happy. His gait is still odd, and he still has recurrent swelling in his elbows (we used traumeel? Gel on those) and he certainly couldn't keep up with the fastest dogs, but I'm not too fussed about that. The Spinal Vet said there is some discomfort when he walks and has recommended gold bead treatment as a more permanent acupuncture. We are strongly considering going with that. I should maybe start a thread on it.... In summary, we're happy we our happy, non- limping 11 month old beautiful dog!


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## k9love

Glad to hear Lucca is doing well

Woody is 3,1/2 months after surgery now.

He is still lame on his left leg, well I say lame, Im not sure its just rescricted movement due to the op? we go to see surgeon on Wednesday to have a talk.

He has had a couple of walks off lead but not too far, he's the same as Lucca, missed his socialisation etc so is a bit "overboard" to say the least when he meets dogs and people, but his temperament is great seeing what he's been through
I take Woody to Hydro now, vet said he could go in the new year, he's had 3 sessions so far, he's not over keen yet but Im sure he will get to like it.

Heres a pic of him

Hope all the others on this thread are going good, would love to hear how things are going for your dogs.


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## Smithlab

Hi, I wish we had access to hydro-therapy here - I should take Lucca down the river, but the snakes are a bit scary at this time of year. He loved the shallows at the beach, but isn't shaping up as a natural swimmer :bowl: Lucca is not limping, but it turns out that his elbow effusion/swelling has increased markedly since last month, with the off-lead exercise; he has almost small marble-sized swellings on the outside of each elbow. So, he's back on on-lead walks only and we're going to try and get the swelling down so he can have the gold beads implanted in the next 6 weeks. We've got him on traumeel tablets and gel, homeopathic things from the Spinal Vet. He's had a few days of meta-cam, seeing the vet this morning to see how long it's wise to use that for in this acute swelling phase. He's also still getting monthly cartrophen. He continues to be gorgeous and pretty happy - but we've been on holidays for a month, which changes next week.  I'll post a photo when I remember!:wave:


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## Ljilly28

I swam with Tango in the lake even though the water was freezing. It was too scary that she might try to bound out and run on land, so I went in with her. I do not miss those post-surgery days! For her, despite the severity of her problem, the surgery was very life-changing and successful.


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## Amber is my pup.

Hi there,

Apologies for starting this thread up again as I see its been a while since the last post. We are going through the same thing with our pup Amber. She is to have arthroscopy surgery on both elbows on the 18th April. The right is the worst elbows but left is really mild but were doing it anyway.

I am uncertain as to what the outcome of the surgery will bring, obviously we will do everything we can and follow instructions to a T.

Just wondering now that its been a ling time since your dogs had the surgery what they are like now? Are the active and happy?

Any advice would be amazing as I am unbelievably worried and its really getting me down.

Thanks
Matthew.


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## IowaGold

It's been over 18 months since my girl's bilateral scope. She is very active and happy. She competes in agility (jumping preferred), obedience and field. When she was evaluated for her CCA a couple of the judges said she moved a little short in front, but it wasn't bad (obviously since she passed!). No one would ever guess she had any elbow problems.


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## Amber is my pup.

That's fabulous news. Just what I wanted to hear. (I know that the outcome isn't necessarily that good).
I'm praying for a full recovery, she hasn't even the surgery yet. All I want is for her to have a nice life.

My vet has said there's a 60% chance that it will help her. Not too confident about that percentage. 

Have you any news of the other dogs parents from this thread. Just trying to get an idea of a short and long term prognosis?

Thanks
Matthew.


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## Micheline

*Robitaille is 4 days Post Op*

Hi there,

Thank you to everyone who has posted on here - I have found this thread extremely helpful.

Our black lab, Robitaille, just had a bilateral arthroscopy 4 days ago. Our case is a little different as he didn't show any obvious signs of ED until just over a month ago (he will be four years old in July). So, unfortunately, he has already developed "significant" arthritis and the surgery will not cure him of that - it will always need to be managed. That said, the surgeon reported that his surgery went very well and the surgical team seemed very happy with how he was doing when I picked him up the next day. 

And he seems to be doing pretty well at home so far - he is wearing an e-collar 24/7, he is resting in a roomy 54" midwest crate, or walking on his leash on floor mats to his bed in the living room. Vet's orders are to take him outside on a short leash 3 times per day for elimination, ice packs 3-4 times a day (using frozen peas and a tea towel for 10 minutes max each time), a light 5-10 min massage twice per day, and range of motion exercises 3-4 times per day. He is on Metacam and Tramadol and glucosamine, and was put on Hill's J/D (but when that runs out I am switching him to a holistic homemade diet and supplements to manage the arthritis). In week 2 we will be allowed to take him for 5-minute walks. We go back on the 17th to have his sutures and e-collar removed, and to talk about physio plans going forward - if all his well, according to the info they provided, he should be able to start rehab twice per week at that point. My understanding is that this could include underwater treadmill and/or physio exercises at first, and then later on we could graduate to swimming. They do have rehab at the hospital where he had the surgery, but I have spoken to the surgeon about signing a referral for Robi to go to a canine wellness clinic closer to me (where I have heard the physiotherapist is very involved and works very closely with the owner to develop an effective program for each dog). 

As many of you reading this know, younger dogs have a much better post-surgery prognosis. It's been very upsetting, knowing that our dog is already doomed to a life of arthritis. We had no choice but to have the surgery at this point to get rid of the bone fragments and smooth down the cartilage. Now I am determined to do everything possible to mitigate his arthritis so that he can have as happy a life as possible. It is hard to think that he may not be able to run and play fetch in our favourite field, or rough house with other dogs....BUT he loves swimming and fetching in the water, so no matter what I know he will always be able to enjoy this.

I have two questions for the forum:

1) Are there any other older dogs out there who have had this surgery? If so, could you please share your experience? How is your dog doing now?

2) We have managed to keep up with everything the vet has ordered except the range-of-motion exercises - Robi does not seem to be able to tolerate them. I keep trying, but he keeps pulling away. Did any of you have to do these passive exercises with your dogs? If so, do you have any tips?

Thanks again...it's nice to know we aren't alone! 

All the best to you and Amber for the 18th, Matthew - I know it can be really overwhelming and worrisome, but just take things one step at a time.


----------



## Smithlab

I have good news and less brilliant news about Lucca, who is now almost 8 months post surgery. After doing well at the beach in December, he's had visible swelling in both elbows since mid-January. Consequently, we've had him back mainly on on-lead only exercise, although he does still run around the back yard sometimes with our older dog (who, incidentally has always had bad joints and has always been very active - she's now ten) and with a young whippet pup (he's usually clever enough to wait for her to bolt around, while he keeps whatever toy they're arguing over); I figure he needs to be a puppy. He is a VERY happy dog, walks twice a day, no limping, but the spinal vet says he does have 'discomfort'. We're pretty frustrated by the swelling, which the original surgeon/specialist says is 'to be expected' and that it 'may go down in the next 6 months'. We are going ahead with the gold bead implants this week, which are effectively long term acupuncture, and he will also have something called prolotherapy, on which there are more mixed reports, but it won't actually do him any harm. We are keeping him very thin, and are just hoping the gold beads may lead him to be a little more comfortable and to extend his happy life expectancy. So, he's a very happy dog who gets two walks a day (fairly short and mainly on the oval at the moment, planning to extend that) and has lots of fun with us and his 'sister', despite the ongoing swelling. We're pleased there is currently no limping (which there was prior to the bilateral arthscropic surgery) and I'll post an update about how we find his progress with the gold beads. These are being done by the top spinal vet in the state (he's a vet and a chiropractor, works with horses and dogs), so we have considerable faith in him. Bottom line, still glad we had the surgery, and we still have a delightful dog.


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## Smithlab

Also, I feel for you and Amber, it's a really worrying time, but things do get much better, although I have to stop myself STILL wondering about the why and the how could we have prevented it, even though I know the answers are 'a whole lot of things beyond our control' and 'we couldn't have done anything'. So, remembering our angst about the the surgery and the post-op stuff, I would just say that you're doing the right thing, and that Amber is very lucky to have an owner who cares so much - if she's as happy and gorgeous as Lucca, she'll be awesome. All the best from Australia.


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## Amber is my pup.

Thanks for taking time to reply. It's good to speak to people who have gone through similar experiences. Have to say it is a very distressing time & good luck to all with your dogs.

Can I ask how long the two walks a day are? You mentioned they were short but how short? 10mins? 20mins?

Amber has swelling (fluid) on her right elbow on the outside which is really annoying. Did yours have swelling pre-surgery?

Thanks
Matthew.


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## k9love

Amber is my pup. said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Apologies for starting this thread up again as I see its been a while since the last post. We are going through the same thing with our pup Amber. She is to have arthroscopy surgery on both elbows on the 18th April. The right is the worst elbows but left is really mild but were doing it anyway.
> 
> I am uncertain as to what the outcome of the surgery will bring, obviously we will do everything we can and follow instructions to a T.
> 
> Just wondering now that its been a ling time since your dogs had the surgery what they are like now? Are the active and happy?
> 
> Any advice would be amazing as I am unbelievably worried and its really getting me down.
> 
> Thanks
> Matthew.



Hi Matthew,

Heres Woody's story....

He was diagnosed with FCP and OCD in left elbow and OCD in right elbow at 5mths of age, luckily he didnt have arthritis at this stage!

Vet operated asap so he had the best chance of complete movement.

Believe me it was a very hard time for both him and myself!! poor boy was confined for 3 mths, no playing no jumping nothing too strenuous.

Then after his op we started him on Cartrophen, once a week for 4 weeks then monthly, he's now only having it 8weekly.

Anyway we are now 6 mths post op and he is doing great, never thought I would see the day when he could go for a "normal" walk but he does, just been out for an hour with him through woods up hills etc and he is fine.

Try not to worry too much, take your vets advice to the T, and you'll soon be back to a happy pup

I think the worst thing was for both Woody and me was the confinement, get some interactive play things to keep her occupied, like kongs etc or board games so she's keeping her mind active, we also gave Woody a raw marrow bone occasionaly to keep him occupied.


Dont know what Amber is diagnosed with? but if its just OCD its not a too invasive procedure.
Oh and if they put one of those horrible plastic collars on her which Woody hated! you can now get soft air filled ones that are great, ask your vet about them.

Good luck, hope everything goes well for her


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## Ljilly28

Tango was truly crippled by bilateral ED , and the surgery was a godsend for her . She will occasionally be stiff if she way overdoes it, but looks and acts like a sound dog 95 percent of the time. She had the surgery on both elbows at 7 months, and now she is four and has great quality of life.


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## Amber is my pup.

Hi,

Amber started limping at 5/6 months but after a diagnosis of "soft tissue damage" we were told to rest her for a few months. It's taken us pretty much 3 months to get the diagnosis of elbow dysplasia .........nightmare! They also couldn't tell which type she has as the xrays were inconclusive (both sets at £200 each). The arthroscopy is for treatment and also diagnosis. Hopefully she has OCD as like you say seems to have the best outcome.
By the 18th she'll be a week away from being 9 months old so hopefully we've caught it in the early stages and she can make a good recovery.

With her being a typical chocolate lab puppy in dreading keeping her confined. She's really bouncy and giddy, its going to drive us mad. If anyone has some good tips to tire her out without strenous excersize id love to hear them.

Oh and she's just had a course of 4 cartrofen injections, not sure when we should tell a difference but nothing as of yet.

Thanks.
Matthew.



k9love said:


> Hi Matthew,
> 
> Heres Woody's story....
> 
> He was diagnosed with FCP and OCD in left elbow and OCD in right elbow at 5mths of age, luckily he didnt have arthritis at this stage!
> 
> Vet operated asap so he had the best chance of complete movement.
> 
> Believe me it was a very hard time for both him and myself!! poor boy was confined for 3 mths, no playing no jumping nothing too strenuous.
> 
> Then after his op we started him on Cartrophen, once a week for 4 weeks then monthly, he's now only having it 8weekly.
> 
> Anyway we are now 6 mths post op and he is doing great, never thought I would see the day when he could go for a "normal" walk but he does, just been out for an hour with him through woods up hills etc and he is fine.
> 
> Try not to worry too much, take your vets advice to the T, and you'll soon be back to a happy pup
> 
> I think the worst thing was for both Woody and me was the confinement, get some interactive play things to keep her occupied, like kongs etc or board games so she's keeping her mind active, we also gave Woody a raw marrow bone occasionaly to keep him occupied.
> 
> 
> Dont know what Amber is diagnosed with? but if its just OCD its not a too invasive procedure.
> Oh and if they put one of those horrible plastic collars on her which Woody hated! you can now get soft air filled ones that are great, ask your vet about them.
> 
> Good luck, hope everything goes well for her


----------



## k9love

Amber is my pup. said:


> Thanks for taking time to reply. It's good to speak to people who have gone through similar experiences. Have to say it is a very distressing time & good luck to all with your dogs.
> 
> Can I ask how long the two walks a day are? You mentioned they were short but how short? 10mins? 20mins?
> 
> Amber has swelling (fluid) on her right elbow on the outside which is really annoying. Did yours have swelling pre-surgery?
> 
> Thanks
> Matthew.


Woody showed no signs at all apart from intermittent limp in both legs, no swelling tho.

As for the walks I think that depends on what surgery they do, Woody was only allowed in the garden on lead for the first 2 weeks then he could have 2 5mins walk a day on lead, lets hope Ambers is only OCD, then she will recover much quicker, like you say they wont know till they actually scope the elbow.
Keep us posted, Im sure there will be support for you on here


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## Smithlab

It is a very stressful time! Lucca had no swelling that we could discern, but I think I recall the vet saying there was some. He had a slight limp (at about 5 months) so we did conservative rest etc, but the arthroscopy (at six months) revealed that the poor thing had OCD and FCP in both elbows. His original X-Rays showed no arthritic change, although the surgeon said there was some. The walks now are 15-20 minutes morning and again at night, but not really fast, on lead the last few months. In December, we had worked up to 25-30 mins off lead, in accordance with the surgeon's and vets instructions  The swelling now is visible, but as I said, no limping, and when he has played and run he has not pulled up with any limping, so we feel as if he's managing pretty well. Once he has the gold beads in, we plan to give him some more off lead opportunities, and gradually increase walks again, but not excessively; we just want him to have a bit more freedom. Oh, I should mention that he is a labrador (his predecessor was half golden retriever, half lab, and I've just found this golden forum the best around). We are still happy that we went ahead with the surgery, as it's clear that with the double whammy in both elbows he wasn't in good shape. He's such a happy presence to be around now. :wave:All the best.:crossfing


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## Yarra girl

Hi 'team' - sorry I've been out of the loop for a few months
Can only contribute the story of a young dog, sorry - Robi is the only older one I have heard of so far so best of luck 
Ben is 2 now and apart from still being a little 'short' on extension when trotting (and I think he still swings his front legs in small circles!) you would not know to see him at a full run and he had some great 'flat out' running this week. No morning or after-rest stiffness that I can see - yay!
He is due for another routine (3-4 monthly) Cartrophen injection tomorrow, and continues his (mostly) daily Sasha's blend. He still sits awkwardly - usually with his butt to the side, and if he sits eg on the back door step or top step of the patio he prefers to sit with his front paws on the first step down ....... not sure if it is just him or more comfortable that way ie less pressure on elbows.
So, enjoying the good times for now as we are expecting him to have early arthritis either way, just not as bad as it would have been. 
Sorry to hear about the swelling Smithlab - hope the beads help
Good luck everyone, glad to hear that this thread is helpful to others - I had no idea what to expect after Ben's surgery so that was the original aim of this, now we are mentors and a support group!
Yarra


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## Ljilly28

I do worry about what senior years will be like for Tango, as the surgeon did say that, despite how well everything turned out, that once you breech a joint there will be arthritis later- no question. I forgot to say that.


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## Smithlab

Oh, I should have said, the first four weeks after the arthroscopic surgery were pretty much no walks, just on-lead to pee etc. That's why we had Lucca at the kennels, because they're great with that there, and we couldn't have him at home with the other dog while we were at work. 

So, he had a lot of rest, then we worked up in 5 minute increments. Now he's all shorn again :no: but he had to have a general anaesthetic to get the gold beads, so the spinal vet said that today he'd be "as if a truck had run over him"... well, it must have been a Tonka truck because he's a very happy camper despite the poodle haircut on his legs. He's trying for camouflage on the mat, I think.


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## Yarra girl

ooh - Lucca! Fingers crossed for a big improvement and no swelling x


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## Amber is my pup.

Hi there folks,

Aploogies for trying to start this tread up again but i'm really interested to know how all of your dogs are doing even further down the line.
The last time i updated you with Ambers story was when she was due in for her surgery. So . . . She ended up with OCD & FCP, really mild in the left leg but moderate on the right. She is now 3.5 months post op and after doing really well for the 3.5 months we have hit a little snag. We have followed all the instructions to a T and got her upto 50mins walks last week without any swelling/limping etc. After another 50mins walk the morning after she's developed some swelling similar to before the op and a small limp again. We have cut the walks back down to 10mins and the swelling is gradually going down.

I have to say i'm finding it extremely hard to cope with has we seem to be progressing fairly well and then hit a stumbling block. I suppose it is quite early to tell how well she'll recover in the long term and the type of life she will have. I have heard some stories saying that its taken 6-9 months for their dog to recoverd fully.

I'd love to her from the people from the earlier posts, (Lucca /Woody/Ben/Duke/Willoughby etc). Hope their doing well.

P.S - What was Lucca's swelling like? Was it a hard lump on the outside of the elbow and only visable when at full extension?

Thanks in anticipation of replies.
Matthew.


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## Amber is my pup.

*Bump - Anyone out there.


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## k9love

Amber is my pup. said:


> Hi there folks,
> 
> Aploogies for trying to start this tread up again but i'm really interested to know how all of your dogs are doing even further down the line.
> The last time i updated you with Ambers story was when she was due in for her surgery. So . . . She ended up with OCD & FCP, really mild in the left leg but moderate on the right. She is now 3.5 months post op and after doing really well for the 3.5 months we have hit a little snag. We have followed all the instructions to a T and got her upto 50mins walks last week without any swelling/limping etc. After another 50mins walk the morning after she's developed some swelling similar to before the op and a small limp again. We have cut the walks back down to 10mins and the swelling is gradually going down.
> 
> I have to say i'm finding it extremely hard to cope with has we seem to be progressing fairly well and then hit a stumbling block. I suppose it is quite early to tell how well she'll recover in the long term and the type of life she will have. I have heard some stories saying that its taken 6-9 months for their dog to recoverd fully.
> 
> I'd love to her from the people from the earlier posts, (Lucca /Woody/Ben/Duke/Willoughby etc). Hope their doing well.
> 
> P.S - What was Lucca's swelling like? Was it a hard lump on the outside of the elbow and only visable when at full extension?
> 
> Thanks in anticipation of replies.
> Matthew.


Well Im sorry to say Woody tragically died a few weeks back, nothing to do with his elbow problem but needless to say we are devastated!!

Hope everyones dogs are doing well.

Pam.


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## IowaGold

Piper just turned 3 a couple of weeks ago. She still appears to be a perfectly normal dog. We are still running agility and field and sporadically train obedience. I have been very lucky.


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## Amber is my pup.

k9love said:


> Well Im sorry to say Woody tragically died a few weeks back, nothing to do with his elbow problem but needless to say we are devastated!!
> 
> Hope everyones dogs are doing well.
> 
> Pam.


Pam,

Really sorry to hear about Woody, Its heartbreaking losing one of the family.

Please pass on my regards to your family, hope everyone is coping.

Matthew.


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## Smithlab

Very sad about Woody; our first dog was called Woody and he lived a short but excellent life - turned out he'd been born with a hepatic shunt :-( Maybe it shows that worrying about elbow problems is probably not the best use of our energies... but I still persist.


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## Smithlab

*Dodgy elbows, excellent life*

Sorry to hear about Amber's swelling - Lucca's appeared at about the same time, 4 months post surgery (He had OCD and FCP, I think moderate in one joint, severe in the other?) although he wasn't limping. 
Almost 12 months post-surgery, Lucca's swelling has gone down a little, but the surgeon expects it to persist for life so we've taken to not noticing it.  On both elbows he has, as you described, a hard swelling external to the joint, but his are visible when he is standing, quite clearly. 
We have seen improvement in his energy levels and willingness to play since he had the gold beads implants, which is pleasing, and they probably haven't reached their maximum effectiveness yet (about 5 months after is the usual for that). He's also had two prolotherapy treatments, I have no idea about their efficacy; he'll have one more in a months or two. So, we figure we've done everything we can and we are now trying to give him a "normal", enjoyable life. This means he walks 20-30 minutes morning and night (mostly on grass - nature strips, footy oval) with a couple of sessions a week with 10 minutes or so running off lead). He also has about an hour of puppy play with a 12 month old whippet puppy on a weekly or twice weekly basis, and although he probably doesn't sprint around as much as our previous dogs would have, he has an excellent time and has not pulled up limping or sore at all, which is great. 
I have noticed his joints click sometimes when he stands up from a drop, but there is no stiffness or soreness evident.
The setbacks are frustrating, and healing obviously varies from dog to dog, no matter how much love the owner gives! We're not overdoing it, we're limiting him a little but ensuring he actually gets to have lots of doggy fun. We are happy that we have a very happy dog who gets to walk, run and play; and if Lucca's active life is shorter that it might be if we wrapped him in cotton wool, so be it. 
I hope you can gradually bring Amber back to a level where she can enjoy life as much as Lucca does, cos then she'll be one lucky dog! I wouldn't stress about the swelling; as I said, Lucca's seems to be pretty much permanent, but the vet, the specialist and the spinal vet all seem not very worried about it at all. Happy healing to Amber! :wave:


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## TMT

Hi, I appreciate the time everyone has taken to post their stories... This is my first real post, and it is unfortunately due to discovering my boy has ED. 

We took him in for his prelims, which showed good looking hips, but elbows with "clouds" surrounding them. It was such a surprise! He does not limp, does not favor either leg, and is still exuberant and doing good on his field training (although now we have stopped all major activity after his diagnosis). The vet we took him to has done plenty of OFAs, but has only a standard x-ray machine. So we are going to get a second opinion from a vet with a digital x-ray machine just to make sure... The orthopedic specialist can't get us in until the middle of this month, so I'm researching as much as possible now. I am very glad I came across this thread, it is wonderful to know the first-hand experiences people have had with ED and with the surgery. 

My question is: If he does not feel bad now at 14 months of age, should we do the surgery?? Our regular vet says he will need it before he is 2, but with Ljilly28's surgeon saying that as soon as you breach the joint capsule, you're guaranteed arthritis, and with some posters saying their dogs took 6-8 months to recover, I just wonder if I would be making the problem worse for him? 

I am sure the specialist will have more information for us, but it just seems like there is such conflicting information about elbow surgery. Our regular vet says that it is an easy surgery with a quick recovery period, yet my husband says everyone he's talked to says the surgery was hit and miss whether it worked for their dog (Labs)... With such an investment of money for the surgery, rehab time to make sure the surgery was worth it, and pain and possible complications for the dog, I'm just conflicted. 

It's going to be a long wait for the appointment with the specialist...


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## Ljilly28

I think you are asking just the right questions of yourself. For my golden, it was a no brainer as she was horribly symptomatic and her xrays were tragic. As fate would have it, we have a boy who passed elbow prelims but not finals with an OFA mild. As he seems completely sound even after hard work, I went the other way on treating it bc I do not want to breech the joint.


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## IowaGold

I asked myself the same questions since Piper was not lame when I got the diagnosis. She was mildly lame when she was around 5 months, but that had resolved itself. My surgeon did recommend doing the surgery so I did. I don't know if she would have been worse at this point with out the surgery? If only I had a crystal ball. I have been meaning to snap an x-ray of her elbows (and hips) for OFA, but haven't gotten around it (I was pregnant when she turned 2 and I want to be the one positioning her for the rads!).


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## Amber is my pup.

Smithlab said:


> Sorry to hear about Amber's swelling - Lucca's appeared at about the same time, 4 months post surgery (He had OCD and FCP, I think moderate in one joint, severe in the other?) although he wasn't limping.
> Almost 12 months post-surgery, Lucca's swelling has gone down a little, but the surgeon expects it to persist for life so we've taken to not noticing it.  On both elbows he has, as you described, a hard swelling external to the joint, but his are visible when he is standing, quite clearly.
> We have seen improvement in his energy levels and willingness to play since he had the gold beads implants, which is pleasing, and they probably haven't reached their maximum effectiveness yet (about 5 months after is the usual for that). He's also had two prolotherapy treatments, I have no idea about their efficacy; he'll have one more in a months or two. So, we figure we've done everything we can and we are now trying to give him a "normal", enjoyable life. This means he walks 20-30 minutes morning and night (mostly on grass - nature strips, footy oval) with a couple of sessions a week with 10 minutes or so running off lead). He also has about an hour of puppy play with a 12 month old whippet puppy on a weekly or twice weekly basis, and although he probably doesn't sprint around as much as our previous dogs would have, he has an excellent time and has not pulled up limping or sore at all, which is great.
> I have noticed his joints click sometimes when he stands up from a drop, but there is no stiffness or soreness evident.
> The setbacks are frustrating, and healing obviously varies from dog to dog, no matter how much love the owner gives! We're not overdoing it, we're limiting him a little but ensuring he actually gets to have lots of doggy fun. We are happy that we have a very happy dog who gets to walk, run and play; and if Lucca's active life is shorter that it might be if we wrapped him in cotton wool, so be it.
> I hope you can gradually bring Amber back to a level where she can enjoy life as much as Lucca does, cos then she'll be one lucky dog! I wouldn't stress about the swelling; as I said, Lucca's seems to be pretty much permanent, but the vet, the specialist and the spinal vet all seem not very worried about it at all. Happy healing to Amber! :wave:


Hi,

Thanks for getting back to me. We cut Ambers walks down to 3x 10mins/15mins per day and there is no longer any swelling and although just about everyone has told me not to worry about the swelling i continue to do so. (God **** brain of mine). Our vet and hydrotherapist has said it might have been too much too soon but we were advised to keep increasing the walks by 5mins every week. (Unless we see her struggling)
She's getting a little freedom around the house now but nothing major and still on the lead at all times for walks, i'm praying for the day when she can have a little off lead time with no limping etc.

From what ive heard hydrotherapy is very important and can provide brilliant results, have you done this with Lucca? Amber has had 5 sessions between her being in season but nothing spectacular as of yet.

I'm glad Lucca is doing well and getting the walks/play time he craves. He is lucky to have owners like yourselves.

Matthew.


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## Smithlab

Hmmm, asymptomatic is tough, you'd have to be guided by your specialist. Lucca was limping slightly at 5-6 months, even after conservative rest, so the decision was relatively easy. On the other hand, our mini-lab (read "lab mixed with something smaller and unknown") showed on her 6 month X-rays that her poor conformity reflected moderate elbow and hip dysplasia, but she was asymptomatic (incredible leaping ability!) and no action was recommended, none taken. She's nearly ten now and does have arthritis, but she's had many active years (on Jointguard) and still walks as much as the young dog every day, playing vigorously with him. All the best with the decision-making; it is agonising!


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## Smithlab

It sounds promising that the swelling has gone down - Lucca's didn't, and it turns out there's only so long I can stress ridiculously over things  We haven't done hydrotherapy because we live 180km from Melbourne (state capital) in a regional city with no hydrotherapy facility for dogs. He's been to the beach, but is much happier paddling than swimming, unfortunately. We definitely would have done hydrotherapy if possible; we were just lucky that the best spinal vet in the state, who does gold beads and prolotherapy (works a lot with horses, too), was only a short drive away, so that was convenient. I hope Amber continues to improve; you're obviously doing everything you can, keep working on stressing less.


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## Amber is my pup.

Smithlab said:


> It sounds promising that the swelling has gone down - Lucca's didn't, and it turns out there's only so long I can stress ridiculously over things  We haven't done hydrotherapy because we live 180km from Melbourne (state capital) in a regional city with no hydrotherapy facility for dogs. He's been to the beach, but is much happier paddling than swimming, unfortunately. We definitely would have done hydrotherapy if possible; we were just lucky that the best spinal vet in the state, who does gold beads and prolotherapy (works a lot with horses, too), was only a short drive away, so that was convenient. I hope Amber continues to improve; you're obviously doing everything you can, keep working on stressing less.


I am working on the de-stressing thing as i'm driving my Mrs crazy . Mmmm - So Lucca was still limping at 6 months? Was this all the time? after excersize? after lying down? and did it just stop or did you do something specific? Sorry for the many questions!

To be brutally honest, the after care since her Arthroscopy has been poor from the surgeon (Although he's a top surgeon), she's had a 4 week check up after and all the other check up's have been with our regular whilst having the cartrofen injections. Our surgeon has always just said if you have any problems i'm only on the end of the phone.

The swelling has gone now any we're still doing 3x10mins walks, ive spotted a tiny limp from time to time but it's that small i'm not sure if i'm imagining it.:doh:

She also had a session on the underwater treadmill last night . . . .interesting stuff actually!

Thanks for getting back to me.
Matthew.


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## Micheline

Please read my update below (had to make some edits and couldn't figure out how to delete my first post - sorry!)


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## Micheline

Hi all...this is an update on our 4-year-old black lab with bilateral ED who had arthroscopic surgery on April 4th. Four months later I am happy to report that he is doing very well. For what it is worth to anyone reading this, this is what has worked for him/us:

1) We followed all the doctor's instructions re: rest and physio exercises, icing, no stairs, etc.

2) Once the surgeon gave approval, we started him on underwater treadmill twice a week for the first 4 weeks, with very short walks increasing by 5 minutes each week plus exercises/games to help him rebuild his muscle. 

3) Upon the physiotherapists' advice, at Week 6 we switched from the treadmill to swimming as he enjoys that more. We are fortunate that we live near a lake, so he swims almost every day as his main exercise.

4) As soon as possible, I weaned him off pain meds and consulted with a holistic pet nutritionist and put him on a homemade diet and supplements specific to his condition (he will always have some arthritis due to his advanced age when his ED was diagnosed). I believe the diet has been very important to his recovery and ongoing wellness.

5) ADVICE ABOUT WALKS: This may seem like common sense, but I thought I should mention that I rarely walk him for long periods on pavement/sidewalks of any kind. I feel it is too hard on his joints. Instead, I walk him on the beach or on the grass or earth in the park. Actually, walking on sand is excellent during recovery because it helps build muscles. If we must walk on the sidewalk for a longer period of time (like 20 minutes or more), we stop and rest him. We do not play fetch on land anymore, nor do we allow for too much running on land. As I mentioned, his main form of exercise is swimming, which he loves and we know is good for him. 

6) We also keep his weight down so as not to put stress on his joints.

I have hardly seen any limping in him post-surgery...maybe three times over the past four months, and never for more than part of a day. I think it is weather-related arthritis, but I am still watching for a pattern.

His physiotherapist says he is one of two dogs she has seen recover this quickly from this surgery. She said that most dogs take at least a year, and the surgeon concurred.

I wanted to report on this because I absolutely recommend this surgery for ED - for older dogs as well as young - and I attribute our dog's recovery to his homemade diet, supplements and low-impact exercise routine.

I hope this helps, and I wish you and your dogs good health and happiness.

Micheline


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## Yarra girl

*baaaack .....*

Hi
I'm back after not keeping up with this forum properly (changed email notification address) 
Lots been going on and some great support - have sent a PM to k9Love - so sorry to hear about Woody.
Must be the time for me to come back on though as Ben had a routine cartrophen last week and his joint checks were not great. 
Hi hip XRays were inconclusive when his elbows were checked - looks like he has a L hip problem (no muscle wasting yet) and also his R elbow is bothering him - no limp or thickening to feel but not keen on having it flexed compared to the left.
So, I am having a few days of denial before I pick up the phone to make a specialist appointment. I thought I was OK until we went out the front and the vet nurses were making such a fuss of him because he used to be a day boarder 3 days a week during recovery - they asked how he went and I burst into tears! Just don't want him to go through any more, and he is such a happy boy. 
Will update when I know more.
Thanks everyone for the posts, creating a good resource and support


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## Yarra girl

*recent pics*

His leg scar was temporary - scraped a bit of fur ....
ps he is 27 kg and a lady asked the other day "don't you feed him !" - hard when the accepted norm is a round labrador. 
Vet says he is Ok at that weight but I think we will get him back to 28kg, Tessa is 30 kg and quite trim despite the furry photo - has had a groom since !


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## TMT

*The importance of seeing an Orthopedic Specialist*

Hi, I posted on this thread a couple weeks ago, thinking my 1 year old dog would soon be facing elbow surgery for severe ED, even though he has no physical symptoms... He was diagnosed by a knowledgable vet who has literally done 100s of OFA x-rays, but who isnt a specialist and only has a standard x-ray machine. 

After a visit to the Orthopedic Specialist 3 hours away, we had good news! While there's no chance of him passing OFA, he has the "best" of the 3 kinds of ED, and with no arthritis currently in his joint it's recommended he NOT have surgery. The specialist says as long as he takes it easy, including no hunting or training :-( , he'll likely not have arthritis until he's an older dog. 

I just wanted to post this for people who JUST got that sickening diagnosis from their regular vet of severe ED with surgery required, to say: Take your dog to a specialist before you have too many sleepless nights.


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## Ljilly28

TMT, I am so happy for you! Great advice about seeing a specialist.


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## TMT

Thank you Ljilly, this thread is a great resource, and I so appreciate everyone's perspectives!


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## Yarra girl

great news


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## daisydukemom

*We're still here....*



Amber is my pup. said:


> Hi there folks,
> 
> Aploogies for trying to start this tread up again but i'm really interested to know how all of your dogs are doing even further down the line.
> The last time i updated you with Ambers story was when she was due in for her surgery. So . . . She ended up with OCD & FCP, really mild in the left leg but moderate on the right. She is now 3.5 months post op and after doing really well for the 3.5 months we have hit a little snag. We have followed all the instructions to a T and got her upto 50mins walks last week without any swelling/limping etc. After another 50mins walk the morning after she's developed some swelling similar to before the op and a small limp again. We have cut the walks back down to 10mins and the swelling is gradually going down.
> 
> I have to say i'm finding it extremely hard to cope with has we seem to be progressing fairly well and then hit a stumbling block. I suppose it is quite early to tell how well she'll recover in the long term and the type of life she will have. I have heard some stories saying that its taken 6-9 months for their dog to recoverd fully.
> 
> I'd love to her from the people from the earlier posts, (Lucca /Woody/Ben/Duke/Willoughby etc). Hope their doing well.
> 
> P.S - What was Lucca's swelling like? Was it a hard lump on the outside of the elbow and only visable when at full extension?
> 
> Thanks in anticipation of replies.
> Matthew.


 
Sorry I have neglected to get back on this post. I am glad to see some of our furbabies are holding up fairly well. Our furbaby has done the best that he can. Post op we went through the same struggles most of you have gone through. We took Duke down to Fort Collins to have his op done which is about a 7 hour drive for us. I think my husband and I took turns crying over that trip. Bringing him home was the hardest. We just had to keep him as comfortable as possible, thank goodness for a minivan! Once we got home if it could get worse it did. Having him home with his sister was so difficult. She of course kept wanting to play and Duke being the protector of her, wanted to play with her. We had to keep them in seperate rooms to ensure that they didn't play and get him out of control! The recovery was agonizingly slow, for both us and Duke. He was so tired of being "sick" he just wanted to be his usually happy self. I would say it took him approximately 3 months to get to a point where we could go for nice slow walks through the park. We are now 2 year post-op and his limping has started again. The scar tissue has and will always been there. Sometimes the swelling is worse and that's when he goes on the DL list once again. We do not have hydro therapy around here for dogs, so we take him swimming as frequently as possible. We have continued to give him Duramax under vets orders, but I fear that that someday will just cause other damages to our baby. I want so badly to get him off of that, but honestly don't know what else to use. Thoughts???

His sister, Daisy, has recently in the last couple of weeks started to show hip displaysia and it is heart wrenching. She is "lazy" in her right rear leg occassionaly when she gets up or has been laying for a long period of time. I know my husband and I simply cannot go through another operation with another dog, so we will manage her pain and exercises as best we know how to. She seems so depressed that I am certain she is in pain and therefore, another trip to the vet is on our list. 

Aside from everything...I would not change these two beautiful dogs for anything. I am glad that we adopted them, because I'm not sure other owners would have gone to the lengths we have to attend to Duke and all his needs and requirements. The expenses are fruitless and we've just learned to accept our bank account for what it is! These two have provided more love and compassion then we deserve. 

I wish all of you continued success and hope you all enjoy your furbabies!


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## Buddy's mom forever

daisydukemom said:


> Sorry I have neglected to get back on this post. I am glad to see some of our furbabies are holding up fairly well. Our furbaby has done the best that he can. Post op we went through the same struggles most of you have gone through. We took Duke down to Fort Collins to have his op done which is about a 7 hour drive for us. I think my husband and I took turns crying over that trip. Bringing him home was the hardest. We just had to keep him as comfortable as possible, thank goodness for a minivan! Once we got home if it could get worse it did. Having him home with his sister was so difficult. She of course kept wanting to play and Duke being the protector of her, wanted to play with her. We had to keep them in seperate rooms to ensure that they didn't play and get him out of control! The recovery was agonizingly slow, for both us and Duke. He was so tired of being "sick" he just wanted to be his usually happy self. I would say it took him approximately 3 months to get to a point where we could go for nice slow walks through the park. We are now 2 year post-op and his limping has started again. The scar tissue has and will always been there. Sometimes the swelling is worse and that's when he goes on the DL list once again. We do not have hydro therapy around here for dogs, so we take him swimming as frequently as possible. We have continued to give him Duramax under vets orders, but I fear that that someday will just cause other damages to our baby. I want so badly to get him off of that, but honestly don't know what else to use. Thoughts???
> 
> His sister, Daisy, has recently in the last couple of weeks started to show hip displaysia and it is heart wrenching. She is "lazy" in her right rear leg occassionaly when she gets up or has been laying for a long period of time. I know my husband and I simply cannot go through another operation with another dog, so we will manage her pain and exercises as best we know how to. She seems so depressed that I am certain she is in pain and therefore, another trip to the vet is on our list.
> 
> Aside from everything...I would not change these two beautiful dogs for anything. I am glad that we adopted them, because I'm not sure other owners would have gone to the lengths we have to attend to Duke and all his needs and requirements. The expenses are fruitless and we've just learned to accept our bank account for what it is! These two have provided more love and compassion then we deserve.
> 
> I wish all of you continued success and hope you all enjoy your furbabies!


God bless you and your sweet furbabies, will keep you in my prayers.


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## Ljilly28

I was really skeptical about adaquan injections until I started giving them to Finn( he has spinal fusion). It has made such a difference that he can back off the rimadyl.


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## Smithlab

*Mostly good*



Amber is my pup. said:


> So Lucca was still limping at 6 months? Was this all the time? after excersize? after lying down? and did it just stop or did you do something specific? Sorry for the many questions!
> 
> We all need to keep asking the questions! Lucca's initially limping began around 5 months of age. It wasn't very noticeable, but was quite persistent and not just after exercise, although not noticeable when rising. He had the surgery at 6 months, and it was 4-5 months later, at the age of about 11 months, that we noticed the swelling after he'd been running off lead at the beach (which we'd led up to VERY gradually). So we went to very conservative rest, tiny walks again, and gradually built up. We are now 12 months post-op and he's very happy - I also feel that the gold beads have made quite a difference. He now walks 20-30 mins twice a day, with some off-lead most days. We also try, as Micheline said, to do the bulk of his walking on grass, either on the oval or on nature strips. We still get him out of the car with a ramp, but he is full of beans! :crossfing


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## Bridge1983

Hi Yarra Girl, Are you still around on this forum? I am very keen to hear how your progress went with Ben. I have a 1 year old Golden who had both elbows done back in October, arthroscope as well as one elbow having an implant put into the elbow where the cartilage had wasted away. I am concerned about his recovery. 6 months on ...


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## Max's Dad

Yarra Girl was last active on the forum on 8/12/2012.


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## Smithlab

Lucca is now 3 and doing very well. (Fingers crossed) he will always have some swelling, but he is active, happy and beautiful. We still use the ramp to get him out of the back seat (he jumps in) and we do the majority of his walking (and some off lead running most days) on grass. He also has monthly Pentosan injections and Jointguard every day. I was still very worried about Lucca 6minths in, but he progressed well. I hope your golden does ok - I understand the stress! All the best.


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## cinstella

My chow chow had Paul elbow surgery last week and had TPLO surgery last year. I am wrapping her elbows as she developed rug burns on her elbows quickly after surgery. She is 11 but couldn't stand to see her limping so heavily around the house, especially after rising. Did you all crate your dogs post surgery? She is very mellow and I keep her by herself in a small living room. She is still limping but it's been only a week. I know we have a road ahead of us.


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## Brody's Mama

*1 yr post surgery...still limping*

Wondering if anyone is still reading these posts....

I have a 1-1/2 yr old lab/mastiff mix....quite active for a big boy. He had surgery at 9 months old for FCP....actually 2 surgeries. The first surgery ended up not showing an actual fragment but just some bad irritation to the joint capsule and cartilage. After a few months post surgery, the bone ended up fragmenting and we were back into surgery to have it removed. He was a BIG boy and the fragment was very large. It took a lot of chipping and grinding of the fragment to get it small enough to remove from the joint. The surgeon was confident that he removed all the pieces from the joint. Brody seemed to be doing well...although he ALWAYS limped, but he started to limp even more about 4 months ago. He had a couple IA injections to help with inflammation....only one seemed to make a small difference but not for long. He has been on Metacam and I started him on Adequan on January 11th this year. He will get his last of the loading dose injections today, and frankly, I don't see an improvement yet. I plan to continue the maintenance injections as I know the benefits...even if they're not visible to me. I also started him back on Fish Oil and a chewable supplement (TriCox). 
My question: Anyone else not get great results post surgery? How are you dealing with it? Any feedback from anyone would be most appreciated


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## Tina Ruoss

I know it has been a long while since these posts, but my Millie girl just had both elbows done on Monday and I am freaking out a little! I need help please with any experience.

Thanks,
Tina


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## cwag

I don't have any experience with this but you might want to start a new thread asking for help. I know there are forum members who do. I hope everything goes well for your pup.


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## chuchubear

I did only see the one post about a 4 year old diagnosed with ED... my 4 year old has just been diagnosed. bilateral, with just one side showing signs of arthritis for now. anyone with experience with that age?


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