# conformation question



## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

If is sort of an unofficial conformation event, where you compete for cash prizes, rather then AKC points. The winnings can be substantial. Sometimes almost as much as five dollars.  Typically, the doggies are not evaluated by real judges.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

Sweeps are held at specialties, and a fun way for owners and breeders to showcase their puppies, as well as more ring time for the dogs. Winnings are a percentage of the entry fees. Judges are usually breeders, often those working towards their AKC judges license. While not "real" judges, a sweepstakes assignment at a specialty is an honor, and those judging take it pretty seriously. It is nice to get an opinion from a fellow breeder, and sweeps wins, especially at a large specialty, are considered somewhat prestigious. If your puppy is eligible to be shown in a sweeps class (6 months to 15 months of age) go for it. It's fun.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

LOL, he missed the boat, he's 19 months old! 
I've had 2 AKC judges formally critique him, I guess I'll just have to live with that for now. Both said virtually the same thing (at totally different times), so I think it was pretty sound.
Photo was taken a couple months ago, Tito at 16 months old, before I knew how to stack him, which is why his front legs are positioned wrong! I'm slowly but surely getting better at it.
Anyone want to try to guess on what the judges said? I know it's hard without going over the dog physically.


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

Oh come on, you got to tell us!


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

ok, I will only tell you the negative comment (no point in pointing out what's good about the dog...), which was made by both judges...
Not enough coat!
If I were to learn to groom him (I hate to admit, he's NEVER been groomed, just had his toes trimmed) I think I could make him look heavier coated. It's something I probably need to pursue if I plan to show him. Although, I could also wait until after he's 2 and hope he gets a coat!


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

You will probably see some coat develop as the colder weather gets here. Unfortunately, being a full time house doggie sometimes discourages a nice full coat growth. 

Since you are in Chicagoland, I would expect he'll need a good heavy coat the winter.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Jesse is just stunning, and has a perfect golden coat! My Tito doesn't have anywhere near that much coat. He just got done blowing coat big time, and what's coming in seems to be more adult coat so we'll see what's up with that. 
He's a full time house doggie, though, and that's not going to change. I have 3 goldens, and 3 crates in my bedroom (doors open on all 3) so the pups can sleep near us. I have real pretty lacey fabric over each crate, and artificial greenery and flowers on top. Just part of the furniture! I don't think I could sleep without my 3 buddies nearby!


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## arcane (Sep 18, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> ok, I will only tell you the negative comment (no point in pointing out what's good about the dog...), which was made by both judges...
> Not enough coat!
> If I were to learn to groom him (I hate to admit, he's NEVER been groomed, just had his toes trimmed) I think I could make him look heavier coated. It's something I probably need to pursue if I plan to show him. Although, I could also wait until after he's 2 and hope he gets a coat!


well dogs don't need excessive coat to retrieve : and your boy may never carry alot of length....he looks like a nicely balanced fellow, and you have done well for a newbie stacking him! Now what were the judges positive comments!?


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks! LOL, you're good, both judges said he was beautifully balanced! Not excessive in any way, nice bone but not overly so, nice head but not excessive. Superb expression (one said, "not the reptilian look you see in so many goldens now"). Great movement, nice reach. One said perfect shoulder lay back, nice angulation of both front and rear and excellent topline. The other said one of the best front ends she's seen in her 20 years of breeding/showing/judging goldens. BOTH said he needs more coat, but the one said he "has the proper coat type, it lays like a jacket, not open or fine coated". 
So it was more good than bad, but the coat thing would really hurt him in AKC showing since the judges seem to be into very heavy coats. UKC doesn't care as much, as they recognize it's not necessary for hunting, as you said!
When I look at Tito's photo, and then at your 3, I'm very aware of how badly I had him stacked. His front legs were extended way too far out, not straight down at all. But I'm getting better at it!
I can't bait him....when I do, he thinks he's in obedience and promptly sits! 
And another thing that always gets a hoot from everyone, when I stack him, I stack his front legs real quick, tell him to STAY, and then lift both rear legs about 1 inch off the ground and put them where I want them. I can stack him REAL fast that way, and he doesn't tend to move around. Probably looks silly as heck to anyone watching, though!
Really he stacks himself better than I usually can, which is a reflection on ME, not him!


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## vrocco1 (Feb 25, 2006)

hotel4dogs said:


> Jesse is just stunning, and has a perfect golden coat! My Tito doesn't have anywhere near that much coat. He just got done blowing coat big time, and what's coming in seems to be more adult coat so we'll see what's up with that.
> He's a full time house doggie, though, and that's not going to change. I have 3 goldens, and 3 crates in my bedroom (doors open on all 3) so the pups can sleep near us. I have real pretty lacey fabric over each crate, and artificial greenery and flowers on top. Just part of the furniture! I don't think I could sleep without my 3 buddies nearby!


It is very common for a dog to blow coat at around 18 to 20 months. I think you'll be surprised at the difference when it comes back in. 

No matter the genetics, cold weather encourages coat growth. Some dogs just have a lot more potential. Jesse carries a full coat all summer, but during the winter it goes nuts.  Actually, Jesse's coat is kind of thin compared to some of the other doggies around here.

I do know of some conformation people that make a habit of "freezing" their dogs in the winter to encourage coat. They don't actually freeze them, but they do make them spend a lot of time outdoors. Many of them have schedules based on the weather conditions, which I think is just nuts. The winters are fairly mild here, so it is not as cruel as it might sound at first.


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

vrocco1 said:


> It is very common for a dog to blow coat at around 18 to 20 months. I think you'll be surprised at the difference when it comes back in.
> 
> No matter the genetics, cold weather encourages coat growth. Some dogs just have a lot more potential. Jesse carries a full coat all summer, but during the winter it goes nuts.  Actually, Jesse's coat is kind of thin compared to some of the other doggies around here.
> 
> I do know of some conformation people that make a habit of "freezing" their dogs in the winter to encourage coat. They don't actually freeze them, but they do make them spend a lot of time outdoors. Many of them have schedules based on the weather conditions, which I think is just nuts. The winters are fairly mild here, so it is not as cruel as it might sound at first.


The same people keep their dogs in AC all summer, too. I do not believe in this, as if they are showing outside in hot weather, and are not acclimated to the heat, it can be dangerous and these dogs will be more prone to heat stroke. I've been around long enough to have seen the trend of feeding arsenic to dogs to grow and keep coat, and know far too many "whatever it takes to win" folks who supplement with thyroid meds to grow coat. "Big hair" is nice, but never EVER at the expense of the dog. Good genetics, frequent bathing, good nutrition, and properly conditioning the dog are what really make the difference.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

I figure I'll never be a "hard-core" conformation person, because my dog is first and foremost, my buddy. I'm not willing to do roadwork (play ball, yes, treadmill, no...), nor to make him sleep outside when he wants to be at most 12 inches from my side all the time. I'd love for him to develop a better coat; his mother had a very very thick, full coat so it's possible, his father's was on the thick side of normal. But if he doesn't, so be it. I'll love him just the same! But yes, I have also heard of people temporarily "pulling their dogs" from showing right about the age he is now, because they need to wait for the coat to come in. 
Thanks for the replies, I especially love the photos of your dogs!


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## Pointgold (Jun 6, 2007)

hotel4dogs said:


> I figure I'll never be a "hard-core" conformation person, because my dog is first and foremost, my buddy. I'm not willing to do roadwork (play ball, yes, treadmill, no...), nor to make him sleep outside when he wants to be at most 12 inches from my side all the time. I'd love for him to develop a better coat; his mother had a very very thick, full coat so it's possible, his father's was on the thick side of normal. But if he doesn't, so be it. I'll love him just the same! But yes, I have also heard of people temporarily "pulling their dogs" from showing right about the age he is now, because they need to wait for the coat to come in.
> Thanks for the replies, I especially love the photos of your dogs!


 
Well, unless you are independently wealthy and have oodles of cash to shovel at showing dogs, it only makes sense to not show them if they aren't ready, no matter the age. My dogs love roadwork, by the way - I bike them, and it's a fun time for us to be one on one. I do have a treadmill, which is only used when there is too much ice and snow to safely exercise them - usually Jan/Feb. My dogs love the treadmill, too, and it's better to _keep _them in some semblance of condition than to let them lose it and have to start from scratch again, which if done correctly can take weeks or months. I don't consider this to be so "hard core", I do it even with my dogs that are not being shown - it's about their health. They need and crave the exercise.


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## hotel4dogs (Sep 29, 2008)

Oh, I don't think of biking with your dogs as roadwork....I know the dogs love it, but I live on a gravel road so it's not an option! Around here, we have people who drive their cars real slow while the dogs are forced to jog along beside or behind, and I just can't see that. That's what they call "roadwork" and is what I was referring to when I made that comment. We even have someone out here that shows dobermans that does it on our gravel road, which I think borders on cruel.
I won't put my dogs on a treadmill, I suppose due to my very limited experience I never thought the dogs would like it! I always assumed they'd HATE it. Probably reflecting MY experiences with treadmills, which I call the DREADmill. 
I live on 10 acres, and we have about an acre of that fenced off. I have a dog hotel, and my own dogs' job is to play with the (social) boarded dogs. They spend a couple hours a day, every day, running in the yard with other dogs unless the weather is super bad, which is only a few days at a time. So I guess I've always figured that that keeps them in pretty good condition. 
I've had to retire my 11 and 12 year old from the playgroups or play-pals, as they're getting arthritis now and I'm afraid they'll get hurt. But the Tito Monster spends a couple hours every day running with other dogs. Usually what I do is put him out with one other dog at a time, and let them run together for about 15 minutes. Then I bring the other dog in, and put a different one out with him. Seems safer that way.
And no, I am certainly NOT independently wealthy and do NOT have oodles of cash to shovel at showing dogs! I wish......


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## molmotta (May 22, 2005)

Pointgold said:


> The same people keep their dogs in AC all summer, too. I do not believe in this, as if they are showing outside in hot weather, and are not acclimated to the heat, it can be dangerous and these dogs will be more prone to heat stroke. I've been around long enough to have seen the trend of feeding arsenic to dogs to grow and keep coat, and know far too many "whatever it takes to win" folks who supplement with thyroid meds to grow coat. "Big hair" is nice, but never EVER at the expense of the dog. Good genetics, frequent bathing, good nutrition, and properly conditioning the dog are what really make the difference.


I live in a country where it is summer all year long. I dont believe in keeping my dogs in AC all day. I've seen how some people do that and the moment the dogs go outside they drool and pant badly. They look so uncomfortable. 

Dyna, my show girl carries a full coat almost all year round. At times, her undercoat gets so thick she looks ROUND and FAT . People think that I stick her in the freezer 24/7, 365 days a year. The plain truth is, she only gets to enjoy AC on some nights when we sleep. She has no problems outdoors and infact, love running wild chasing her tennis balls.

I've got many people ask me how I maintain her coat. I just smile and say its all genetics, nutrition and care.


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