# Meet Max Gunner



## Prism Goldens

SO happy for you!


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## jennretz

YEAH! Max has his own thread  I did not know you had a cat! Especially love the sleeping Max picture and Max in the sock picture. 

Here's to new adventures!


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## CashStringer

Congrats!!! Cannot wait to watch him grow!


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## Wendy427

Max has attitude! SO happy he has his own thread. Got a kick out of him "ignoring" the cat!


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## julianne85

Such a cutie pie


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## fourlakes

Congrats on your new boy. I'll look forward to your adventures together


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## swishywagga

Congratulations, he's adorable, I'm so very happy for you!.


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> YEAH! Max has his own thread  I did not know you had a cat! Especially love the sleeping Max picture and Max in the sock picture.
> 
> Here's to new adventures!


Yeah, I have a cat too. Had her since before even Axl. She'll be turning 10 next month. She is a very kind docile girl, quite dog like, and she puts up with a lot of nonsense from Puffy, Jax, and now little Max. She will hiss and swat with her claws in when they get too annoying. 

Funniest was her relationship with Ax. He NEVER bothered or even took much notice of her existence at all. She loved him and was always looking to get his attention, but he remained completely aloof as though she was beneath him. She would wait until he was asleep and come snuggle with him. He'd open one eye, you didn't slip *anything* by his acute senses, and grudgingly tolerate it most times.

The pic where Max is sleeping was taken the first night we had him. He tends to expend his energy in frantic bursts and when he passes out, that's it until he recharges again. My daughters arranged the 'stocking stuffer' pic.


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## Pilgrim123

It's about time Max got his own thread. It'll be fascinating to see how your little wildman grows up. As it is, his personality shines with every post you write. Keep up the pictures, please!


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## Rundlemtn

Excited to follow Max's thread! The Christmas photo is darling!!


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## Yaichi's Mom

I am truly happy for you AD!! 

May you and feisty adorable Max Gunner create many wonderful moments and memories together. Looking forward to watching you both grow together


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## LynnC

Congratulations! Max is adorable  Enjoy the journey, wherever it takes you & Max


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## hotel4dogs

How exciting!!! He has some big paws to fill, looks like he sure has the potential to do so


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## laprincessa

He totally has the best name ever. And he's truly adorable, I can't wait to hear about his adventures. He's already so loved by so many that he'll probably never meet - but I'm thinking he knows all about us.


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## Wicky

Congrats! Can't wait to follow his journey!!!


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## alphadude

Think I'm kidding about his attitude? Check out the 1000 yard stare he's giving me! lol

Just had a 2 hour marathon play session with him. He figured out how to get himself up into my crappy leather chair and was LAUNCHING himself off of it into the air with reckless abandon. He has zero fear, to the point of being almost psychotic!


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## gold4me

Welcome Max. Can't wait to watch you grow up!!


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## Wendy427

He's probably saying, "This is MY chair now!" LOL


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## alphadude

Wendy427 said:


> He's probably saying, "This is MY chair now!" LOL


He can have it, it's ready for the city dump thanks to the cat sharpening her claws on it.


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## Rundlemtn

So, I know your strong preference was to have a crazy little guy in the house... how does the rest of the family feel about the little maniac? :wink2:


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## Sweet Girl

CONGRATULATIONS!!! I'm so happy for you! He sounds like the PERFECT match for what you were looking for. It sounds like you are loving the little guy already. 

How did the import part of bringing your Canadian pup to the US go? Was it relatively simple to get the exception?


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## murphy1

He is a very beautiful boy with a great expression.


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## alphadude

3Pebs3 said:


> So, I know your strong preference was to have a crazy little guy in the house... how does the rest of the family feel about the little maniac? :wink2:


They are all on board except for when he is sinking his little needle teeth into their toes, ankles, etc. Remember, we all experienced Axl's puppyhood/adolescence, so it's kind of a 'been there done that' type of attitude. Axl was twice his size when I brought him home and triple his weight so he was capable of a *LOT* more carnage. 

Puffy was the easiest puppy in the world to deal with. All he did was eat and sleep. Literally house trained in 1 week (@ 8 weeks old) - I kid you not. Axl - not so much, it was a process that took a long WHILE. Every indication is that Max is going to take a long WHILE also. 

Honestly the most annoying thing is keeping him segregated from the Puffy and Jax when I'm not present and cleaning up 'accidents' which Max seems to delight in having. lol

I can LITERALLY take him outside for an HOUR and stand there freezing while he bounces around, chews up sticks, barks,etc. and he will hold his bodily functions until 6 seconds after he comes back inside. I seriously think he gets a kick out of it.


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## alphadude

murphy1 said:


> He is a very beautiful boy with a great expression.


Thank you Murph. He is quite mischievous, and his specialty seems to be giving 'bad looks' and staring contests. I can already tell he is going to be a tough nut to crack. Perhaps not Axl tough, but then again, I never experienced [email protected] 8 weeks old so I can't make a valid comparison yet. By the end of February I think I'll have a pretty good feel for where he rates on the wild child scale.

Just had this conversation with my wife earlier today and it is readily apparent that Max is a very dominant little fellow. Whether or not he is a true 'alpha' as Ax was, remains to be seen.


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## alphadude

Sweet Girl said:


> CONGRATULATIONS!!! I'm so happy for you! He sounds like the PERFECT match for what you were looking for. It sounds like you are loving the little guy already.
> 
> How did the import part of bringing your Canadian pup to the US go? Was it relatively simple to get the exception?


Yes, it all certainly seems familiar. I never thought finding another dominant golden would be this easy. A dominant dog yes, but another GR with a big attitude?

"Importing" the puppy was not really a problem at all as long one has the appropriate paperwork which can be obtained from the CDC easily as long as you follow instructions. The contract states that the dog must be quarantined until such time as he receives his rabies shot.

The border crossings (both ways) were a real time consuming *PITA* where you have to park, go into a building to be interviewed, show credentials, and be generally *annoyed*. Took almost an hour going each way.


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## alphadude

My daughter got some video of his chair leaping antics yesterday...


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## jennretz

I love his full on enthusiasm


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## murphy1

maybe you should call him "Mad Max"!


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## alphadude

murphy1 said:


> maybe you should call him "Mad Max"!


One of the reasons I named him Max...


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## Wendy427

Wow! Mad Max IS fearless! Love his enthusiasm too!


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## Rundlemtn

alphadude said:


> They are all on board except for when he is sinking his little needle teeth into their toes, ankles, etc. Remember, we all experienced Axl's puppyhood/adolescence, so it's kind of a 'been there done that' type of attitude. Axl was twice his size when I brought him home and triple his weight so he was capable of a *LOT* more carnage.


That's awesome! I don't think any of us love getting chewed on by their sharp needle teeth, but, its a phase they all go through, and nothing new to you and your family. Fortunately and sometime unfortunately, they grow up so quickly! 

How is the fur family adjusting to the new member?


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## alphadude

3Pebs3 said:


> That's awesome! I don't think any of us love getting chewed on by their sharp needle teeth, but, its a phase they all go through, and nothing new to you and your family. Fortunately and sometime unfortunately, they grow up so quickly!
> 
> How is the fur family adjusting to the new member?


My daughter inadvertently discovered that if you growl at Max when he is in biting/attack mode, he will stop biting and start licking. Good to know.

I still keep Puffy and Jax separated from Max most of the time because I am fearful rough play could result in an inadvertent injury to Max. I know neither would intentionally harm him but I can't chance one of these ~90lb clumsy oafs landing on him - especially Jax who loves to leap up and ends up face planting half the time. Max wants to play with them and they want to play with him but they are going to have to wait a bit longer until he gets a bit bigger.


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## Henry's Mum

Puffy was the easiest puppy in the world to deal with. All he did was eat and sleep. Literally house trained in 1 week (@ 8 weeks old) - I kid you not. 

My Henry was like that too, he seemed to come house trained - only a couple of puddles in the night in the first month. We were lucky it was summer here when we got him, so we were outside most of the time anyway. And as soon as we were walking him outside, he stopped doing any poops or pees in the garden, which was supe
r.
Anyway this is Max thread and he sounds a delightful handful, luckily you have been there before. He is a lovely looking puppy too - Congrats


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## alphadude

Henry's Mum said:


> Puffy was the easiest puppy in the world to deal with. All he did was eat and sleep. Literally house trained in 1 week (@ 8 weeks old) - I kid you not.
> 
> My Henry was like that too, he seemed to come house trained - only a couple of puddles in the night in the first month. We were lucky it was summer here when we got him, so we were outside most of the time anyway. And as soon as we were walking him outside, he stopped doing any poops or pees in the garden, which was supe
> r.
> Anyway this is Max thread and he sounds a delightful handful, luckily you have been there before. He is a lovely looking puppy too - Congrats


We got Puffy in June also so it made things significantly easier than winter in NY. Also, I think he learned from watching Ax who I trusted not to harm intentionally or unintentionally through clumsiness, the then 8 week old Puffy.


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## Vhuynh2

I'm going to enjoy following this thread! Congratulations on your new little guy. He sounds a lot like my Push granddaughter. Very high energy and absolutely fearless! I can't remember her acting fearful to anything, even as a puppy. Max is going to be FUN!


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## alphadude

Vhuynh2 said:


> I'm going to enjoy following this thread! Congratulations on your new little guy. He sounds a lot like my Push granddaughter. Very high energy and absolutely fearless! I can't remember her acting fearful to anything, even as a puppy. Max is going to be FUN!


Thank you.

Max's lack of fear is his distinguishing characteristic thus far. First 5 minutes he was in my house he stood nose to nose barking right back in the face of a 95 lb Puffy defending his turf. Didn't yield an inch. Accidentally dropped a bag of kibble a foot away from his as he was eating, he didn't even flinch. I am actually thinking I may have to protect this guy from himself early on. 

Never thought I'd find another seemingly fearless golden after Ax ... early returns say I may have.


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## Vhuynh2

My biggest concern was and still is preventing her from getting hurt, since she will jump on and off anything. Our field trainer said Maisey has no regard for personal safety when she's going after birds. She will do anything to get to them. You will probably see the same thing with Max and his disc!


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## alphadude

Vhuynh2 said:


> My biggest concern was and still is preventing her from getting hurt, since she will jump on and off anything. Our field trainer said Maisey has no regard for personal safety when she's going after birds. She will do anything to get to them. You will probably see the same thing with Max and his disc!


Actually, you read my mind with that statement. It just occurred to me to ask whether or not your girl had any natural aptitude when it came to discs. So far I've gotten Max to chase discs along the ground and bring them back. I've also been working with him to leap up and grab discs and rings held over his head. I've been researching training techniques since although I had an awesome disc dog, I never taught him to do it - he was just seemingly born knowing - a flat out natural.

Ax was like that 100%. You didn't want to get between him and an airborne disc (or anything for that matter) he was chasing. He had zero regard for his own safety. He'd either go over or *through* any obstacles...ripped his dew claw almost clean off tearing through a patch of rose bushes in pursuit of a disc.


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## alphadude

Mad Max earlier today. Finally got him to stay *still* long enough for some good shots...


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## LynnC

Max is adorable   . I don't think I've seen a golden with light eye coloring Will they stay that color? Any eye color he's absolutely gorgeous


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## jennretz

Those pictures are great, especially the first one


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## Wendy427

Such a handsome pup!


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## Rundlemtn

Wow! He's stunning and very unique! I have seen a golden with light eyes, but not quite like that. He seems really special!


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## Pilgrim123

AD, you have hit the jackpot with this one - and I firmly believe so has he. I'm so glad.


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## alphadude

LynnC said:


> Max is adorable   . I don't think I've seen a golden with light eye coloring Will they stay that color? Any eye color he's absolutely gorgeous


No clue. They might still be in the process of changing, I don't honestly know. I hope they stay light. I couldn't care less about conformation.


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## alphadude

Pilgrim123 said:


> AD, you have hit the jackpot with this one - and I firmly believe so has he. I'm so glad.



I hope so. He's sure got plenty of attitude which was definitely my preference. Now if I can just get him to catch discs...


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## LynnC

alphadude said:


> No clue. They might still be in the process of changing, I don't honestly know. I hope they stay light. I couldn't care less about conformation.


I hope so too. They make him extraordinary. A very special pup.


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## OutWest

alphadude said:


> Think I'm kidding about his attitude? Check out the 1000 yard stare he's giving me! lol
> 
> Just had a 2 hour marathon play session with him. He figured out how to get himself up into my crappy leather chair and was LAUNCHING himself off of it into the air with reckless abandon. He has zero fear, to the point of being almost psychotic!


Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.  We picked the male out of our foster kitten litter because he was always first out of the gate...first to dive into food...first to walk, leap, "fly"...and we got what we wished for! He's a wild guy. I hope yours is, too.

Max looks wonderful. Whether he turns into a disc dog or not he will keep you on your toes!


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## alphadude

OutWest said:


> Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.  We picked the male out of our foster kitten litter because he was always first out of the gate...first to dive into food...first to walk, leap, "fly"...and we got what we wished for! He's a wild guy. I hope yours is, too.
> 
> Max looks wonderful. Whether he turns into a disc dog or not he will keep you on your toes!


No doubt he is a wild guy, that much is readily apparent.


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## murphy1

Adorable and I love that head of hair


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## DanaRuns

I just saw this thread. CONGRATULATIONS!!!

:--big_grin::--heart:::--happy:arty2::lol:arty::dblthumb2:heartbeat:headbang2:yipee::greenboun:leapfrog::banana::jamming::roflmao::rockon::nchuck::appl::smokin::artydude

(But no one will replace Axl.)


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## azzure

Max has hazel eyes (like me!). Gus had beautiful medium brown eyes, while Duffy's are so dark you can hardly see the pupil.


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## captainbeer

Great looking pup!!


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## alphadude

murphy1 said:


> Adorable and I love that head of hair


Me too, I'm very jealous being a cueball myself.


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## first golden

Congratulations!! Max is adorable! I am so happy for you and your family! Enjoy every minute...I look forward to hearing about all your adventures together..


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## alphadude

azzure said:


> Max has hazel eyes (like me!). Gus had beautiful medium brown eyes, while Duffy's are so dark you can hardly see the pupil.


Not sure if Max's will stay hazel but I really hope they do. 

Sounds like your Gus had eyes like Ax...beautiful golden brown. I swear you could see the intelligence and mischievousness in them. My Gus (Angus aka Puffy) has the almost jet black like Duffy. My lab mix Jax has very light brown eyes.

I almost named the puppy 'Duff' after Axl's band mate Duff McKagan the bass player from Guns...but the girls nixed it.


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## alphadude

DanaRuns said:


> I just saw this thread. CONGRATULATIONS!!!
> 
> (But no one will replace Axl.)


Never were truer words spoken Dana. Ax can* NEVER* be replaced, he was a once in a life time combination of awesomeness. It *SUCKS* that he was taken from me so young. 

I *know* you know exactly how that feels as do many others on here, unfortunately.


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## alphadude

Crappy low res video (suitable for texting which is why the quality is so bad) of 13 lb Max giving 95 lb Puffy a beatdown for the first time. 

Actually, I was very proud of how gentle and tolerant Puffy was with the obnoxious little guy...


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## jennretz

Wow!!! Puffy was so gentle with him and looked like he was having a blast  And Max continues to be a little spitfire. Thanks for sharing that video; I don't care about the res. I just loved seeing the interaction


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## ArchersMom

Go Max! Puffy was so sweet


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## Max's Dad

Very cute!


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## Pilgrim123

The video quality may not have been the best, but it was a great illustration of a puppy who has found his place in life. Puffy did brilliantly - the perfect older brother teaching the next generation how to act. Thanks.


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## CashStringer

You're giving me puppy fever ..... (My husband would kill me if we got a 3rd!!!)


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> Wow!!! Puffy was so gentle with him and looked like he was having a blast  And Max continues to be a little spitfire. Thanks for sharing that video; I don't care about the res. I just loved seeing the interaction


Thanks Jen. Puffy was really great and I am proud of him. Maybe he did learn something from HIS older brother after all.


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## alphadude

CashStringer said:


> You're giving me puppy fever ..... (My husband would kill me if we got a 3rd!!!)


Well, we are currently a 3 dog family. Didn't really plan on it, but Jax (the rescue) landed in our lap. Although if he doesn't STOP destroying any of my electronics he can get his mouth on, he's going to punch his ticket back to Georgia. 

J/K, he is a lightweight when it comes to damage. Ax wrote the manual as a puppy.


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## OutWest

Puffy's doing great with Max. Very cute video! I think Max is going to wear out his "puppy license" very soon! Then you may see Puffy stand his ground and back the pup down.


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## Jessie'sGirl

Oh, they're cute together. Puffy was awesome.


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## alphadude

Tonight I got some better quality video of Max vs. Jax. That little pup has a real attitude and gives zero craps he is outgunned. Jax thought he was going to take his toy without a fight, he thought wrong. They went at it for at least 20 minutes and no matter how many times his little body got tossed around, he got back up and launched himself right back at Jax. He's relentless. He's definitely got a little Ax in him...


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## laprincessa

I'm in love 

The video with Puffy reminded me so much of my Max and any younger, smaller dog. He will so gently let the little one win. 
Puffy, you're the best.


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## jennretz

Both Puffy and Jax are being great with him  Jax looks relaxed and happy. Hard to believe the rescue said he was hard to handle....he just needed the right home 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## alphadude

laprincessa said:


> I'm in love
> 
> The video with Puffy reminded me so much of my Max and any younger, smaller dog. He will so gently let the little one win.
> Puffy, you're the best.


Yes, Puffy was very kind and gentle with him and I was very pleased. Puffy definitely scored major brownie points with that behavior. I don't think 'winning' is that important to him since he spent his entire life coming out second best, no matter how hard he tried. I've even noticed he lets Jax win the battle for toys most times including tug-o-war which he could EASILY win if he wanted to. There is no comparison between them strength wise.

I think my 'slow acclimation' approach is working well.

I also think in a few months BOTH Jax and Puffy are going to have their paws full with this guy.


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> Both Puffy and Jax are being great with him  Jax looks relaxed and happy. Hard to believe the rescue said he was hard to handle....he just needed the right home
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Jax is cool, he just needs a firm hand at times. It's difficult to stay mad at him for long. He has learned how to 'submissive' and 'cute' his way out of trouble already. Most of the trouble he gets in is from his over exuberance combined with clumsiness, and he definitely has a fondness for destroying any electronic devices he can get his mouth on.

Actually, according to his paperwork which I happened to look at yesterday, Monday, 1/9 was his 2nd birthday which he shares with one of my favorite people on the planet - James Patrick Page.


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## jennretz

Happy 2nd Birthday Jax!


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## laprincessa

Happy Birthday, Jax!

Puffy just reminds me of my Max - he's all about the playing and making people and dogs happy, so he'll just let the little ones be all bad and tough and then walk away.


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## Cody'sMom

I'm so happy to see all 3 of your dogs getting along great together!

Connie and [email protected] :bigangel:


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## murphy1

Great videos which show the tolerance of your two big guys. In the past I compared my female Golden, Kelly from the 90's, to your Ax. She behaved just like Max with our Casey. He was so tolerant and as she got older she was a Holy Terror and tortured my poor Casey with her antics. I'm predicting you have another Ax on your hands. He's been whispering in Max's ear .


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## alphadude

murphy1 said:


> Great videos which show the tolerance of your two big guys. In the past I compared my female Golden, Kelly from the 90's, to your Ax. She behaved just like Max with our Casey. He was so tolerant and as she got older she was a Holy Terror and tortured my poor Casey with her antics. I'm predicting you have another Ax on your hands. He's been whispering in Max's ear .


Murph, I *really* hope you are right. 

I see many similarities between Max's behavior and Ax's early on. Although Max is exceedingly wild for a now 10 week old, 14 lb puppy, he is many orders of magnitude less intense, and clearly capable of less mayhem. It must be taken into consideration however, that Ax was around 4 months old and 25+lbs the day he came home - almost double the age and weight of Max currently. That said, it is conceivable that a month and a half from now, he may very well approach Axl levels of demonic puppy behavior. He certainly has the 'land shark' thing down already. He was literally hanging off of Puffy's jowls yesterday. lol

The ironic part is that as an adult, Axl would not have tolerated anywhere *near* as much abuse from a wild puppy as Jax and Puffy have. He'd have schooled Max from jump on what was and was not acceptable and he'd have learned it, the hard way if need be, but Ax was really good at teaching an unforgettable lesson without really hurting. I completely trusted him. He schooled Puffy on day 1 not to *ever* touch his food and trust me, Puffy NEVER forgot it.

Yesterday, Jax (the rescue) and Max invented a new game - sprinting around my house in a circular pattern, kitchen to dining room, to living room, to front hall, and finally back to the kitchen. Jax who is 85 lbs, fast but clumsy, with Max right on his heels. My floors are hardwood and ceramic tile and therefore slippery to dog paws. It was quite a scene. At one point, poor Puffy who was not taking part in the 'reindeer games' happened to be standing in middle of the kitchen and Jax leaped clear over him. Max attempted the same but obviously didn't make it and slammed into him airborne @ full speed. He got right back up and continued the chase unfazed. He really seems to play with reckless abandon and little regard for his own well being which seems eerily familiar...

Next time, I'll have to get video of it complete with Max barking and growling sound effects. He is a *very* vocal little dude - ALSO eerily familiar. It is sometimes difficult to believe all of that sound is emanating from that little body. He goes utterly ballistic when he knows his food is being prepared...he is extremely impatient.


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## alphadude

What color would you say his eyes were??


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## jennretz

I'd say hazel


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## Wendy427

I'd say hazel, too.


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## alphadude

Reason I'm asking is I posted a pic of Max in a group I'm a member of on FB and I was asked by a woman who says she has been breeding GRs for 30 years, "what breed is he'? Obviously, this question was based on his eye color since in my opinion at least, he is easily identifiable as a GR. Obviously I am aware the breed standard specifies brown eyes with dark brown preferred. 

I guess my question then, is it completely *impossible* for a purebred golden to have an eye color other than brown? I sure wouldn't think so. My understanding is that eye color is determined by the amount of melanin present in the iris and I'm wondering if Max's uncommon eye color may be related to the fact that he also seems to lack the black pigment around his eyes.

Any breeders or members more informed on the subject want to weigh in??

I have read in the past about pb goldens with black striped fur due to a recessive gene. I have complete confidence in the fact that Max is indeed a purebred. I mean it's not like Max was produced by a 'fugazy' BYB.

Mike Ducross @ Ambertrail has been breeding field goldens since the early 70's and Max's grandsire is the famous "Push" 

http://www.ambertrail.com/StudDogs/StudPush.htm


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## Rundlemtn

This is my pup's dad. I think he is gorgeous! I think quite a few of the darker red goldens have lighter eyes, and the lighter goldens have darker eyes.


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## alphadude

3Pebs3 said:


> This is my pup's dad. I think he is gorgeous! I think quite a few of the darker red goldens have lighter eyes, and the lighter goldens have darker eyes.


He is an extremely handsome fellow! That reasoning makes perfect sense.


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## wdadswell

I've been meaning to post, on your new thread for a while. Max is gorgeous! I had wondered the same thing and what 3Pebs3 makes sense. My boy is by a red sire and his eyes are a muted hazel. Definitely not brown. Max's eyes are a very bright hazel and very striking. They almost borderline on green.


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## ArchersMom

This is probably a dumb question, but what's a "pb golden." My tired mind can't think of anything other than peanut butter. Sounds delicious:laugh:


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## Rundlemtn

pb golden = purebred golden


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## alphadude

wdadswell said:


> I've been meaning to post, on your new thread for a while. Max is gorgeous! I had wondered the same thing and what 3Pebs3 makes sense. My boy is by a red sire and his eyes are a muted hazel. Definitely not brown. Max's eyes are a very bright hazel and very striking. They almost borderline on green.


Thank you kindly. Your boy is beautiful as well!

In certain light, Max's eyes do appear somewhat greenish.

His sire, "Diesel" was a reddish color, pics below. I think Max will end up a similar shade - perhaps a wee bit lighter. 

Hiis dam Ace also pictured below (in the air which might explain his apparent fondness for leaping).


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## ArchersMom

3Pebs3 said:


> pb golden = purebred golden


Thank you! I knew it would be obvious. 

Regarding eye color, I started a thread awhile back about lighter eyes in field goldens and learned some interesting information http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/golden-retriever-pedigree/417562-eye-color.html

I think Max has lovely eyes. I've seen some dogs that nearly bordered on yellow they were so light. I think the most startling was a light colored field golden with very pale eyes I saw at a hunt test. You could have easily convinced me it was another breed due to the blonde fur and yellowy eyes.


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## alphadude

ArchersMom said:


> Thank you! I knew it would be obvious.
> 
> Regarding eye color, I started a thread awhile back about lighter eyes in field goldens and learned some interesting information http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/golden-retriever-pedigree/417562-eye-color.html
> 
> I think Max has lovely eyes. I've seen some dogs that nearly bordered on yellow they were so light. I think the most startling was a light colored field golden with very pale eyes I saw at a hunt test. You could have easily convinced me it was another breed due to the blonde fur and yellowy eyes.


AM, I gave that thread a quick read, Thank you.

Bottom line is I don't really give a rip about conformation to the absolute breed standard as long as Mad Max is healthy, athletic, has keen vision, and is happy. 

I used to get asked all the time if Ax was a lab, especially when he blew his coat every other November. He never had the most luxuriant coat to begin with, but that is a typical characteristic of field lines and he was most definitely a field retriever, and IMHO, an extraordinary physical specimen. I think anyone who saw him in action would agree. 

Even Max's breeder, Mike Ducross, was amazed at the videos I showed him of Ax doing his thing, and he has seen his fair share of talented, athletic field goldens...


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## alphadude

Mad Max at rest indoor lighting...


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## Vhuynh2

I would describe them as olive colored. Striking, wow


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## 4goldengirls

hmmm, doesn't look like he's at rest. More like he's recharging. lol. He's adorable, love that face.


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## alphadude

4goldengirls said:


> hmmm, doesn't look like he's at rest. More like he's recharging. lol. He's adorable, love that face.


I tend to agree about the recharging!


----------



## alphadude

Max vs. Jax 2. This time they fight over an empty water bottle.

Check out the 'tude on little 'Mad Max'. He's a character. Afterward, Puffy joined the fray and he and Max tag teamed Jax. Goldens stick together apparently. It was hilarious and Jax got a (play) beatdown. It also explains why my house looks like a disaster all the time. Between the 3 of them, they rearrange the furniture regularly...


----------



## jennretz

That video is hilarious. Jax is giving him a lot of leeway I think you've made two very nice additions to the family


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> That video is hilarious. Jax is giving him a lot of leeway I think you've made two very nice additions to the family


Jax is being gentle for the most part although when he gets overstimulated, I have seen Max get slammed around pretty hard. I guess that's what happens when you want to play with the big boys though. To his credit, I've yet to see him back down no matter how badly he gets trampled, slammed into walls, etc. He just keeps coming back harder. At times I worry he is really going to be injured during this rough play but thus far, he has proven to be as tough as advertised.

I was also watching him outsmart Jax earlier though. He would steal the toy and take off and because he is smaller and more maneuverable on the slippery floor, he was making Jax look downright foolish and clumsy sliding around trying to catch him. I was cracking up. I swear, sometimes it's like he's channeling Ax...not the biggest or strongest, but bolder, smarter and more agile...


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## LeoTheGolden

I love how patient Jax is ! Max is spunky for sure !


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## BrianO

alphadude said:


> Mad Max at rest indoor lighting...


Ha! I read that as indoor LIGHTNING based on the expression on his face.


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## alphadude

LeoTheGolden said:


> I love how patient Jax is ! Max is spunky for sure !


Welcome to the forum, Leo is very handsome!


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## sophieanne

Max is a very handsome little fellow!!!!!! Enjoy who he is!!!!


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## alphadude

Nightly Max pic. 

He has apparently appropriated the bed that I got for Ax a few days before he passed. He'll need to grow into it.


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## Brinkleythegolden

Congratulations on your new addition! He's very handsome!


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## laprincessa

More and more I'm believing he was sent to you.


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## murphy1

He's really grown quite a bit.


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## alphadude

murphy1 said:


> He's really grown quite a bit.


Weighed him yesterday - 16.2 lbs. He has almost tripled his weight in just under a month. He's eating good in the hood, and he's got a little pot belly on him. No matter, we'll eliminate that when boot camp starts...


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## alphadude

*Bittersweet photo*

Max laying in the exact spot Axl took his final breath...


----------



## Pilgrim123

He's sure paying attention to whatever's outside! Your Max has quite a presence on his own terms. He won't be Ax, but he's going to be extraordinary.


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## jennretz

Pilgrim123 said:


> He's sure paying attention to whatever's outside! Your Max has quite a presence on his own terms. He won't be Ax, but he's going to be extraordinary.




I agree he's going to be something special. I know AD that you aren't superstitious, but I believe that if you allow it Max was meant to come into your life. Not to replace Ax, but to help you heal. Let him show you who he is in his own right. You may experience something you've never experienced before. And it may be simply wonderful


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## Cody'sMom

I love the pictures of Max. It was nice for Ax to leave Max such a nice bed and yes, that is a bittersweet photo of Max lying where Ax took his last breath.

Ax and my Cody are together - they do have a special bond by sharing the same birthday - December 16. 

I had 13 years with Cody. I so wish you had the same with Ax.
Cody never caught a Frisbee in his life. Maybe Ax has showed him how. :smile2:

Hug Puffy, Jax and Max for me!


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## ceegee

I'm glad he seems to be what you wanted! Looks like he's fitting in.


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## alphadude

Cody'sMom said:


> I love the pictures of Max. It was nice for Ax to leave Max such a nice bed and yes, that is a bittersweet photo of Max lying where Ax took his last breath.
> 
> Ax and my Cody are together - they do have a special bond by sharing the same birthday - December 16.
> 
> I had 13 years with Cody. I so wish you had the same with Ax.
> Cody never caught a Frisbee in his life. Maybe Ax has showed him how. :smile2:
> 
> Hug Puffy, Jax and Max for me!


Yes they are indeed together now wherever that may be, and I do recall that they shared a common birthday. 

I only wish I could have had an additional 4.5 years with Ax but it's never easy at ANY age. Cancer sucks.

Shot this pic yesterday of the 3 boys...should have turned off the flash to avoid eye shine but I like the pic nonetheless.


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## alphadude

ceegee said:


> I'm glad he seems to be what you wanted! Looks like he's fitting in.


Yes he has integrated himself into the 'pack' quite well. Jax seems to be his constant play fighting partner, much more so than Puffy who is his snuggle buddy, although they have been known to mix it up occasionally. Jax in his previous foster home was one of 18 dogs so he is very well socialized and he gets along well with pretty much every dog he meets. Puffy grew up with Ax who was mostly aloof to other dogs. Those 2 had a very nice, close relationship and loved to wrestle with one another but there was never a doubt who was in charge. 

Max is a complete nutjob and the ferocity with which he will attack either of these 85 - 90 lb dogs that tower over him is quite entertaining. He isn't afraid of either one of them in the slightest and I keep repeating the term 'reckless abandon' for Max's fearless kamikaze leaps off anything he can climb up on, and he has proven himself to be a very capable climber already. I am really going to have to protect this guy from himself for a while.

Max has been with us exactly 1 month today. I am quite pleased thus far with his 'spirited' demeanor and he seems to have a good mix of the characteristics I was seeking. 

Only down side is the very slow progress he is making with house breaking although I actually expected that to some degree. Ax was an absolute nightmare the first few months and at this point I don't foresee Max being much easier. I think the more dominant the dog's personality, the harder they are.


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## alphadude

Max, was HUMPING Jax tonight. Wasn't quick enough to get a shot of it. lol


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## rabernet

alphadude said:


> Mad Max earlier today. Finally got him to stay *still* long enough for some good shots...


Oh, he's going to be one good looking dog! And so much fun to watch grow up!


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## alphadude

rabernet said:


> Oh, he's going to be one good looking dog! And so much fun to watch grow up!


Thank you Robin. Glad you and handsome Noah are back on the forum!


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## ariyo

That picture of Max in the stocking is too cute! I'm looking forward to seeing how he grows up  From what I've seen in the thread so far, it looks like he's fitting in really well.


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## Kalhayd

He's absolutely adorable!!!


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## alphadude

Max on the porch again 2 weeks after the first pics...he's working on his 1000 yd stare again. lol


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## Pilgrim123

He's got massive paws!


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## alphadude

Pilgrim123 said:


> He's got massive paws!


Yes he does, though they didn't start out that way a month ago. I am noticing the most growth in his legs (front especially) and paws. His tail has gotten much longer as well. Perhaps it's a field retriever thing - they grow the lower half first and the top catches up. 

Look at this pic of Ax @ a little over 4 months old...his front paws were comparatively huge!


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## Wendy427

Pilgrim123 said:


> He's got massive paws!


I was going to say the same thing!


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## alphadude

I just couldn't resist sneaking Max to the beach with the other two knuckleheads today on a 55 degree day in January. It was the perfect opportunity because the beach had essentially been disinfected by a massively high tide from the nor'easter yesterday so there was little risk of contamination from other dogs. The concrete portion of pier that serves as home base was completely submerged apparently, because all the holes on top were filled with sand.

Max romped around some and discovered an apparent love of seafood from all of the clam shells he tried to gnaw on as well as pieces of dead horseshoe crabs.

I was a bit disappointed that he showed little interest in sampling the waters of the bay with his two big brothers, but he is still a baby I guess.

I really hope this is the first of many fun outings to Crescent Beach.


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## OutWest

alphadude said:


> I just couldn't resist sneaking Max to the beach with the other two knuckleheads today on a 55 degree day in January. It was the perfect opportunity because the beach had essentially been disinfected by a massively high tide from the nor'easter yesterday so there was little risk of contamination from other dogs. The concrete portion of pier that serves as home base was completely submerged apparently, because all the holes on top were filled with sand.
> 
> Max romped around some and discovered an apparent love of seafood from all of the clam shells he tried to gnaw on as well as pieces of dead horseshoe crabs.
> 
> I was a bit disappointed that he showed little interest in sampling the waters of the bay with his two big brothers, but he is still a baby I guess.
> 
> I really hope this is the first of many fun outings to Crescent Beach.


I wouldn't worry about him and water if it was his first time there. It's really good to let him go at his own pace. If the other two go dashing in and start playing he will soon follow them in. He's such a cutie. In the close ups he looks big and then in the picture with the other two he looks like the puppy he is. 

P.S. Love the graffiti in one of the pics.


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## alphadude

OutWest said:


> I wouldn't worry about him and water if it was his first time there. It's really good to let him go at his own pace. If the other two go dashing in and start playing he will soon follow them in. He's such a cutie. In the close ups he looks big and then in the picture with the other two he looks like the puppy he is.
> 
> P.S. Love the graffiti in one of the pics.


Not really concerned that he didn't dash straight into the bay. He comes from generations of 'water dogs' that leap into the icy waters up in Canada without hesitation to retrieve. I am sure once he gets a bit older he will plunge right in. It just surprised me a bit because thus far, he has demonstrated fearlessness in everything he does.

He is definitely getting bigger, especially his legs/paws but he still has a long way to go. He's just over 11 weeks old at this point.

Regarding the graffiti, I have no *IDEA* how that might have gotten there.....


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## alphadude

The 3 Stooges in the doorway earlier today.

Actually had a bit of a breakthrough with Jax earlier today as well. It's as if something finally clicked in his head. 

At the beach today, I tossed a disc into the wind 15 feet or so behind him and miracle of miracles, he chased, leaped in the air, caught it, and actually landed on his feet! It was actually a really good looking catch, where he kind of contorted his body. 

It was *almost* Axl like, except it was 5 yards away and not 100. lol He immediately caught 4 more (much more ordinary looking) in rapid succession without missing one, and then as unexpectedly as it started, Jax decided the game was over and stopped chasing them. Weird, but encouraging. 

Max won't be ready for an attempt at training for another couple of months at best so I guess, I'll renew efforts to teach Jax the 'family business'.


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## jennretz

Wow, Jax looks happy. Max looks confident and Puffy looks content. You've done good AD.


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## Sweet Girl

Love that photo in the doorway. What a great group you have.

Glad to hear Jax is showing some interest in the family business. He may yet surprise you!! And I don't blame you for sneaking Max to the beach. So tempting. My girl also didn't go charging in her first time at the beach - or the second. Now, it's her favourite thing in the world.


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## alphadude

Please disregard


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## alphadude

Now 19 lb Max lounging in the light dusting of snow on what he seems to feel is 'his' personal porch.

He seemed to be pretty energized by the snow this afternoon although *not nearly* energized enough to do his business outside!

He did run at full speed and do a lying leap over Jax's head as he bent down to pick up a tennis ball which absolutely cracked me up though.

He also decided to crack the thin layer of ice on top of he pool with his meaty little paws and go for a quick dip before I put a stop to it.


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## jennretz

He's looking very "king of the world'ish"


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> He's looking very "king of the world'ish"
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, he's really feeling his oats these days.

Maybe the collar is contributing to it. His mother insisted that he be given Axl's old orange Harley Davidson puppy collar. I was not in favor of it but Puffy wore it as well if memory serves.


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## Pilgrim123

Now, why doesn't a Harley Davidson collar on Max surprise me? Next it'll be a Hell's Angels bed!


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## alphadude

Pilgrim123 said:


> Now, why doesn't a Harley Davidson collar on Max surprise me? Next it'll be a Hell's Angels bed!


He has to earn the bed. lol


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## laprincessa

My Max had a Harley Davidson collar, too. Bear worked there till he retired in May - don't get me started on the downhill slide of that company, it's really sad. At any rate, I still have that collar too. Maybe if there's ever another puppy here, it will be worn again, too. Ah, memories


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## alphadude

Mad Max took a ginormous leap into the ice crusted pool today. Looked like he was rather enjoying it. He did not stumble or fall, he intentionally did one of his kamikaze leaps directly toward the middle. Was pretty funny.


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## alphadude

laprincessa said:


> My Max had a Harley Davidson collar, too. Bear worked there till he retired in May - don't get me started on the downhill slide of that company, it's really sad. At any rate, I still have that collar too. Maybe if there's ever another puppy here, it will be worn again, too. Ah, memories


HD was really rather pathetic in the 70's when they were owned by AMF. Then they got their act together in the 90's. Sad to hear they are going in the wrong direction again.


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## alphadude

Mad Max taking a snooze on the couch using Jax as his pillow. The two of them are becoming quite close. Max usually uses Puffy as his pillow but I guess Jax was just there. lol


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## jennretz

That is a great picture 


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> That is a great picture
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I like it as well...except fro the ugly couch. lol


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## Wendy427

alphadude said:


> I like it as well...except fro the ugly couch. lol


What a sweet picture! I was just going to say, "Wow, what a nice couch!" LOL


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## Pilgrim123

AD, the couch looks well-worn and well-loved. Therefore, it must be comfortable. It's miles better than designer furniture in ridiculous colours that show dog hair and that are so uncomfortable, you can't sit on them!


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## alphadude

My wife yells at me all the time for posting pics containing our 'ugly furniture'. lol

Believe it or not, that couch was brand new less than 3 years ago. It came from a major national retailer with annoying commercials that claim "it's leather everywhere your skin touches". I call total BS on that. 

Besides, I tell her that dog people are not judgmental about stuff like that, and are more interested in the dogs than the surroundings. I know most completely understand that when you have two 80+ lb dogs, a cat with intact claws, and a teething 3 month old puppy, all of whom are allowed on the furniture, it AIN'T exactly going to look museum quality.

Know what, I'd much rather live in a home with furry family members around than a pristine one without them.


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## alphadude

Just weighed the little porker after he ate - 21 lbs on the nose!


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## laprincessa

alphadude said:


> HD was really rather pathetic in the 70's when they were owned by AMF. Then they got their act together in the 90's. Sad to hear they are going in the wrong direction again.


All I'll say is "don't buy a new Harley." They're not at all interested in quality these days


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## laprincessa

alphadude said:


> I like it as well...except fro the ugly couch. lol


There's a couch in that picture? 
Didn't see a thing but the cute puppies. :grin2:


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## alphadude

MAD MAX defending his turf from Puffy and Jax. 21.8 lbs as of this morning.


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## jennretz

Max has a really striking face! He's just really handsome


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> Max has a really striking face! He's just really handsome


Thanks Jen. 

I think he looks more like a mini golden than a puppy if that makes any sense.


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## Wendy427

Wow! He really has "the stare" down! Such a handsome boy!


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## jennretz

alphadude said:


> Thanks Jen.
> 
> 
> 
> I think he looks more like a mini golden than a puppy if that makes any sense.




He is losing that puppy squished fluffiness phase. You're starting to see the full potential of what he's going to be 


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## alphadude

Just occurred to me that we are coming up on Max being the same age as Ax was when we got him. In approximately 10 days, on 2/15 he will be about 100 days old or 14 weeks and change. It will be interesting to see how he measures up size and behavior wise. 

From what I remember, Ax was at minimum 25 lbs, probably a bit more and Max is around 22 today so he is definitely on target to be a similar weight 10 days from now. 

He is growing really quickly, especially his lower half and he is also starting to look taller and leaner like I remember Ax being although he (Ax) always looked a bit more bulky because his fur was thicker and fuzzier at this stage.

As far as behavior, there are more similarities than differences between the two, but I must say that I recall Ax being MUCH more energetic at this stage than Max is - he was literally non stop. Max seems to burn his energy in frantic bursts, but when he's done, he's DONE. He's about as likely these days to be tearing around the house with Jax as he is to be passed out snoozing somewhere.

When is comes to destruction and mayhem, Mad Max is not even in the same league as Ax was. Sure he delights in tearing up any paper or cardboard he can get his mouth on making a mess, loves to chew on the edges of furniture, and a sneaker when he has the opportunity, but Ax was literally destroying WALLS, furniture, articles of clothing - shoes, glasses, sneakers, boots, more shoes. lol It was as if his sole reason for existence was destruction of anything he had access to as well as ripping around and relentlessly attacking family members with his little needle teeth. Ax was the textbook definition of a land shark. Max was never nearly as bad and that behavior seems to have tapered off almost completely. I am wondering though, if Ax being an 'only dog' vs. Max having 2 canine playmates to sink his teeth into has any bearing. He certainly seems to enjoy using Jax as a chew toy and even Puffy once in a while.


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## jennretz

AD - was Ax your first pup? Perhaps, Max is adapting to a more experience dog owner plus I think have 2 siblings makes a big difference as well.


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> AD - was Ax your first pup? Perhaps, Max is adapting to a more experience dog owner plus I think have 2 siblings makes a big difference as well.


Jen, Ax was my first golden puppy, I had several others prior.

Could be I'm a bit more experienced and now know to nip destructive, biting behavior in the bud, but I still don't think I would have been able to control Ax the demon puppy at this point. lol

I do think having siblings makes a big difference though. Puffy was a breeze - no trouble at all when Ax was around. I think he taught Puffy the ropes to a large degree.


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## alphadude

Took Max for a quit shot to the beach to check ou Ax's old stomping ground today - just the two of us. 

Wanted to see what he made of it with no distratctions from the other 2 stooges. He was kind of wide eyed.

Discovered 2 things - Max thinks sand is like snow and likes to bury his face in it, and he also is a DIGGER.


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## Rundlemtn

What a looker. I like your leash and collar. I seem to remember someone else was quite the digger...


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## Pilgrim123

AD, having a live, furry chew toy definitely makes a difference! And Max has two. Anything that moves and that doesn't attack in return is fair game for those puppy teeth. (Sneakers, though, are another story. I have yet to run across a puppy who ignores them completely.)


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## alphadude

Took the day off today and it was almost 50 degrees here in NY. Spent a few hours outside with the 3 stooges. Mad Max had an EPIC attack of the zoomies. He executed a flying reindeer leap from the top step very reminiscent of what I had seen Ax do thousands of times. Unfortunately, I did not catch it on video but I did get some video of the tail end and was able to grab a few action stills of Max motoring from it.

He also displayed the exact same behavior that Ax did on a daily basis, namely the hunched stalk. Ax would do this when he was returning with a disc awaiting the next toss. Max was doing it in exactly the same manner but it was in preparation for launching a leaping attack on Jax. I'll have to get video of that next time.


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## murphy1

Quite the leggy red head


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## alphadude

3Pebs3 said:


> What a looker. I like your leash and collar. I seem to remember someone else was quite the digger...


Thanks 3P. 

Yes, Ax was quite an accomplished digger. 

I don't know whether it is a field retriever thing, a dominant temperament thing, or a combination of both, but there are quite a few similarities. Much more so than Puffy or Jax. It's almost as if he's, at least so far, "Ax light". 

Just yesterday, the zoomies including the reindeer leap off the porch at a full run, as well as the cat like, hunched stalking behavior, kind of freaked me out a bit as well as made me smile and sad simultaneously.

It's funny, Max is already more coordinated than Jax, (poor Puffy has no chance - he's a distant third), and he even employs many of the same moves when play fighting. He is a big fan of the leg bite as well as grabbing his opponent by the back of the neck - both of which were Ax's 'signature moves'. 

What is most impressive though, is how he seems to already have mastered the art of ducking out of the way of Jax's attempted strikes and counter striking kind of like 'rope-a dope'.

It's a pretty safe bet that he is going to be the leader of the canine pack around here.


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## alphadude

Max 2 days shy of 14 weeks old, 23 lbs, on 'his' porch.


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## jennretz

what a sweetie pie


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## alphadude

Some shots from yesterday 2-18-17. A 65 degree day at the beach in NY walking barefoot in the sand! Max made a new friend - my buddy's 9 month old golden pup Brock. Got a few action shots of Max galloping along the beach where Ax and I had so many memorable moments...


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## jennretz

AD - those are some great action shots of Max and his new buddy. Max was clearly having the time of his life  You're going to have such great times with him. He has a complete zest for life..


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## Cody'sMom

I so enjoyed seeing the new photos of Max! 

It's great you have access to a wonderful beach.

The dogs sure are having fun.

Connie :wavey:


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## Pilgrim123

It's great that you and Max are so busy making new memories of the beach. It's such a perfect spot for dogs.


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## alphadude

Took Mad Max to 'the Pond' this afternoon. It's the first time he's ever been there and really the first time I've been back since I was there with Ax for the last time in late August.

He was pretty wide eyed with all the new sights and smells. We took a hike on the beach and he followed and walked beside me off leash very well and responded to recall when he strayed to investigate something interesting. He did take a particular interest in a bunch of ducks sitting in the bay close to shore and dove in to chase them. That took a few repetitions of the command to get him to come on back out of the water but he eventually responded.

We walked on the dead tree down the beach deposited there by Sandy, he hopped right up on a picnic table (jumped onto the bench first) and then we went to check out *Axl's FIELD*. I am hopeful that someday, he may perform some exploits of his own there, but for today we just sat and reverently admired it. Max even took himself for a walk with the handle of the leash in his mouth.

He is fast asleep next to me now.


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## jennretz

Love ❤ the Max pictures he's really coming into his own 


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## alphadude

Little porker weighed in @ 28.2 lbs this afternoon


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## jennretz

Mad Max is looking rather regal in that picture  Wow, is he getting more and more handsome!


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## laprincessa

oh, little piggy butt!
He just exudes some tude!
Love him!


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## alphadude

Just came across some newly posted pics of Max's sire "Diesel" posted on the Ambertrail page. Probably a pretty good approximation of what Max will end up looking like.

On left in last pic.


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## jennretz

What a nice looking dog!


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## alphadude

Max has had an eventful week. 

Tuesday, he decided to sneak downstairs, steal, rip open, and subsequently eat most of the contents of my daughter's *DOPEY* headache mask - the kind you can put in the freezer or microwave depending on whether you want heat or cold. The contents were beads of an oily consistency filled with God knows what. Of course both my wife and I were at work at the time and my daughter was literally having a breakdown. I called the vet who referred me to the ASPCA poison control hotline, who for the sum of $65 (charming) basically told me what I already knew from my research online that they were supposedly non toxic, and would likely cause some mild stomach upset or diarrhea, unless of course they contained ethylene glycol (essentially antifreeze) which is highly toxic. Thankfully, it turned out fine with no ill effects.

Today, my daughter and I took Mad Max (solo) to the beach on a 60 degree day where he lived up to his DNA by doing some water retrieves of a rather large stick. I got some video of this, and on the last one, he swam right by the stick and started heading out into the bay! Thankfully he responded to being recalled after a few tries and even grabbed the stick on the way back. I thought I was going to be forced to go for a swim myself today for a minute! He seems to be a pretty good swimmer and seemingly has no fear of the water.

I actually got him to chase a flying disc today and he looked like he was trying to catch it, but didn't. Somewhat encouraging though.

Last item of note, we discovered that at this point in time, @ 17 weeks old, I can still beat him in a footrace, and believe me, that's NOTHING to brag about. After he dried off a bit he decided to sprint over the dune and go exploring while ignoring his recall commands. I basically had to sprint a good way at top speed to corral him while at the same time avoiding obstacles. My daughter was actually fairly impressed! I am still pretty physically capable @ 53, but I was NEVER blessed with being a very fast runner - even @ 18. I am built more for power than speed. lol

Suffice it to say, I hope Max's speed increases dramatically!!!

Video of water retrieves...


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## Pilgrim123

That's quite impressive swimming for someone his age. I wonder - was he going to retrieve that boat or whatever it is that's in the background? I'd have been frantic when he went so far!


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## alphadude

Pilgrim123 said:


> That's quite impressive swimming for someone his age. I wonder - was he going to retrieve that boat or whatever it is that's in the background? I'd have been frantic when he went so far!


I was impressed with his swimming. His foot speed - not so much. lol

Another 10 or 20' feet and I'd have jumped in after him. Never had to rescue a dog down there yet, but I thought today might have been the day. 

In the past, I never even gave it a second thought, no matter how far Ax went out. He would literally go out a hundred yards or more, but he was an extremely strong, experienced swimmer. Little Max is an unknown quantity as of yet. Hopefully he will be as well.

That object in the background is a concrete cattle barge that ran aground out there in the 1920's and it has been a constant since my childhood on that beach, which I can see from my yard. It has deteriorated to a large degree these days. On rare occasions, when the conditions are just right, the tide goes out beyond it and you can actually walk out there. Last time that happened was around this time last year on an extremely windy (gusts of 70 mph) day. I have pics of that day - I'll have to find them.


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## Pilgrim123

Well, it would have been quite a feat if he'd brought THAT back to you! 
And I still think he's a gutsy little character, even if you can beat him in a footrace at present.


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## alphadude

Pilgrim123 said:


> Well, it would have been quite a feat if he'd brought THAT back to you!
> And I still think he's a gutsy little character, even if you can beat him in a footrace at present.


I would personally be totally impressed if he pulled off retrieving that barge. That was beyond even Axl's amazing capabilities.

He is a gutsy little guy but even he is rather tame when compared to Ax at a similar age. 

I am very satisfied with Max so far, and hopefully will continue to be, but I have come to the very sad realization that there was only one Ax unfortunately, and I will *never* have another dog with his extraordinary blend of great characteristics.


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## alphadude

Sunday night fights earlier this evening. All three stooges were in a feisty mood. As usual the most vocal was Mad Max...


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## jennretz

Max reminds me of the littlest kid; come on guys let me play!!! 

Jax has tremendous patience with him. That's really good.


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## Pilgrim123

I love how wide those hackles are on Jax - that's quite a wide strip down his back! Poor Max, he's really trying to be one of the big boys, but, by the way he's growing, it won't be long until he can't be ignored any more. It'll be interesting then to see who plays with who.


----------



## MaryKate

alphadude said:


> I just wanted to formally introduce our new addition Max. He is a field retriever from Ambertrail in Ontario. A little ball of energy with a *big* personality and attitude. I specifically wanted the most energetic, dominant, male pup out of the 2 litters - 11 male pups in all. Mike Ducross the breeder, described him as a 'wildman' and a week and a half in, I see nothing to suggest he was incorrect in that assessment. Max is a character and I am hoping to get him to follow in Ax's paw prints and become a disc dog. Whether or not I'm successful remains to be seen, but at least he should mature into a dog with the physicality and drive necessary to do so. Time will tell...


Hi alphadude,

Such an adorable pup you've hot there!
Max seems to be an active and outgoing dog.
I just wish my dog is still alive so I can still paly with him. 
I also remember the rope that I got from him from petstreetmall, and that used to be his favorite activity with me.
We play tug of war all the time.
It's nice to see your pup really enjoying your family. 
Does he eat much too  LOL


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## alphadude

Took the first pic of a very low tide this afternoon when I was down there with Jack.

The rest of the shots I found were taken 4-3-16, and I even walked out beyond the barge and took a shot of the shore.


----------



## alphadude

jennretz said:


> Max reminds me of the littlest kid; come on guys let me play!!!
> 
> Jax has tremendous patience with him. That's really good.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes Jax absolutely does. Little MM is relentless and he really seems to like attacking him - I think because he is younger and a much more mobile target. He will occasionally play fight with Puffy but much more often he will bathe his face with kisses and lay on top of him. He really seems to love Puffy and to his credit Puffy is extremely kind and gentle with him. He will even tolerate Max stuffing his face in his bowl while he is eating. I could not be more pleased with the dynamic between the three of them - especially with 2 being intact males even though Max has not reached maturity yet. I think it helps that they ALL know to respect MY authority and when I say STOP, they listen - especially Jax.


----------



## alphadude

Pilgrim123 said:


> I love how wide those hackles are on Jax - that's quite a wide strip down his back! Poor Max, he's really trying to be one of the big boys, but, by the way he's growing, it won't be long until he can't be ignored any more. It'll be interesting then to see who plays with who.


Indeed he does have quite a wide strip down his back. I thing that's the Shepherd in him. One of these days, I'm going to have his DNA tested.

I have a feeling Max is going to take over leadership of the 4 legged pack before long. Once he puts on another 15 or 20 lbs, a few inches, some muscle, and more importantly his adult teeth, I think there will be a coup d'etat. Right now, despite his attitude, the laws of physics are not on his side.


----------



## alphadude

MaryKate said:


> Hi alphadude,
> 
> Such an adorable pup you've hot there!
> Max seems to be an active and outgoing dog.
> I just wish my dog is still alive so I can still paly with him.
> I also remember the rope that I got from him from petstreetmall, and that used to be his favorite activity with me.
> We play tug of war all the time.
> It's nice to see your pup really enjoying your family.
> Does he eat much too  LOL


Thank you very much MaryKate!

Unfortunately, I know exactly how you feel because I recently lost my best bud Axl.

Max LOVES to eat. Once he stops growing, I'm going to have to exercise him like crazy to keep him in shape!


----------



## MaryKate

alphadude said:


> Thank you very much MaryKate!
> 
> Unfortunately, I know exactly how you feel because I recently lost my best bud Axl.
> 
> Max LOVES to eat. Once he stops growing, I'm going to have to exercise him like crazy to keep him in shape!


That's good to hear alphadude!  Regular exercise will keep his body active even if he stops growing.
What do you usually feed him nowadays? Seems like he has a really big appetite. LOL


----------



## alphadude

MaryKate said:


> That's good to hear alphadude!  Regular exercise will keep his body active even if he stops growing.
> What do you usually feed him nowadays? Seems like he has a really big appetite. LOL


MaryKate, trust me, I am a drill sergeant when it comes to keeping my goldens well exercised.

He is currently getting 3 cups per day of his Blue Buffalo chicken puppy chow and a full can (a third at every meal) of Merrick wet dog food - typically cubed Texas beef or diced "colossal"chicken. He is fed morning, noon, and evening.


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## alphadude

Max is becoming a *HUGE* PITA!! He recently discovered several routes to get over to the far side of the deck.The first was under the deck and I blocked that off. I let him back out, and in 30 seconds he was back over there. The only other way back there was behind the pool where I had positioned a piece of plywood 3" high. Jack jumps that with no problem but I was surprised to see little Max get over it with little difficulty. No problem, I replaced it with an almost 4" tall board. Guess what, he was able to make it over that one as well with a bit more difficulty. I was forced to rig up a piece of plastic lattice around 5' high to stop his little excursions. 

The reason this is necessary is because he seems to have developed a strange obsession with a decaying tree stump back there. Today, I found out why, the little bugger clawed a hole through 6" of iced over snow, that was rock hard from the freezing temps we've been having, and was busily feasting on the mutant giant mushroom sprouting from the stump - not poisonous according to what I read. 

Just now while typing this, I let him out with the other 2 knuckleheads, confident he would not be able to get there, and he didn't, but he was happily ice skating around on the top of the frozen pool cover heading in that direction. Had I not jumped up and caught him, he'd have been there in another 20 seconds. 

He's really started jumping and climbing in the last week and came pretty close to jumping onto the dinner table from the floor. Another few weeks and he'll definitely be capable. My wife tells me she has already caught him standing on the table 'browsing' for snacks. Apparently he figured out he can just jump onto the chair and then onto the table easily enough.

He's turning into quite the 'wild child' lately....Ax would be proud.


----------



## Pilgrim123

A young escape artist with a brain to boot - oh, AD, you're in for some fun there! I can't get over the fact that the dogs were happily swimming so recently, and now it's so snowy!


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## alphadude

Pilgrim123 said:


> A young escape artist with a brain to boot - oh, AD, you're in for some fun there! I can't get over the fact that the dogs were happily swimming so recently, and now it's so snowy!


I got so used to (adult) Ax who, although he had the capability to go pretty much anywhere he wanted, merely had to be told NO and would immediately obey, and Puffy who, well just doesn't have the physical capability to get most places he doesn't belong. 

Jack and Max are a different story although I must admit, when I tell Jack to stop doing something, he stops. Max, not so much. He is getting increasingly defiant.

March is typically a wild month in the northeast US. Was 70 degrees last week, was in the 20's today.


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## Macca

So Max is smart, athletic and fearless - sounds like you got just what you hoped for!


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## alphadude

Macca said:


> So Max is smart, athletic and fearless - sounds like you got just what you hoped for!



So far, so good. Reminds me a LOT of Ax, has many similar qualities and mannerisms. Am happy I found another golden with a lot of attitude. Just weighed him today @ 18 weeks old and he is a shade under 40 lbs - 39.8. He is really starting to assert his dominance over 80 lb Jack. Not so much Puffy just yet, but I'm sure it won't be long. He is definitely a dominant male. Whether or not he is a true alpha like Ax was, remains to be seen.

No real progress to speak of with the discs yet, even though he seems to possess many of the physical tools required. The most important is eye mouth coordination which, as of now, remains undeveloped.


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## alphadude

Looks like I won today's round in the ongoing battle to keep MM from getting back at the dead tree stump (mushroom factory).

Little bugger is studying the problem...pic 1
Jack eyeing the new addition (lattice)...pic 2
Max prepares for an unsuccessful attempt to leap onto the pool - he almost made it...pic 3
1000 yard stare again...pic 4
Consolation prize...pic 5
Snoozing in the sun with Puffy standing guard...pic 6

Notice the glass top table in pic 4 on it's side. Jack decided it's great fun to leap up onto the glass surface. He did it twice and I figured it was just a matter of time until he went through the glass end ended up at the AH.


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## jennretz

Great pictures AD! Sounds like a fun day 


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## alphadude

Thanks Jenn. Took all 3 to the beach earlier and Max was the first one to launch into the surf which was unusually rough today. The other two joined him and they were frolicking.

Max was very badly behaved afterwards however and had to be leashed because he apparently went deaf to his recall command and kept making me chase him over the dune. After having moved a couple tons of snow this weekend with my shovel (which I oddly enjoyed), I was not really in the mood for such antics.


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## alphadude

Well that was a short lived victory...figured it'd be a week or two until Max figured out how to get up there and make his way to the stump. Little wiseguy didn't even get wet!

He was in the wildest mood I have seen yet - approaching puppy Axl levels of wildness. He literally had poor Jack pinned to the floor submitting and cowering, he launched such a sustained and forceful attack! He literally went berserk! Once I pulled him off Jack, he went right after Puffy who knocked him down with a head butt and pinned him to the floor against the couch. With all that fur, Puffy is immune to Max's little puppy teeth, Jack is not. Poor Jack looked genuinely afraid of him.


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## jennretz

He's too smart for his own good!

Is it bad that I'm glad Puffy put him in his place??? I will always root for Puffy 


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> He's too smart for his own good!
> 
> Is it bad that I'm glad Puffy put him in his place??? I will always root for Puffy
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He really is too smart for his own good, he's going to get himself jammed up one of these days.

Not at all, I was glad too. Saved me the trouble of subduing him. The ferocity and relentlessness of his attacks overwhelmed Jack who was genuinely terrified. 

Puffy was great, did not use too much force, he actually did it perfectly. I swear in similar circumstances, Ax would have used him as a chew toy. He would not have had the measured response Puffy did. I'm pretty sure Max would have had a few wounds. lol


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## alphadude

I was thinking, it's a real shame that Ax and Max never got to meet and interact. For instance, if we had gotten Max at the time we got Puffy when Ax was not even 4.5 years old, it would have been r*eally interesting *to watch the dynamic between the two of them. Based on what I have observed so far and yesterday in particular, I think this guy might have tried to challenge for dominance at some point. Truth be told, my money would have still been 100% on Ax, but they really seem to have been cut from the same cloth so to speak. Bad timing I guess. Max would have been the perfect protege...


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## jennretz

alphadude said:


> I was thinking, it's a real shame that Ax and Max never got to meet and interact. For instance, if we had gotten Max at the time we got Puffy when Ax was not even 4.5 years old, it would have been r*eally interesting *to watch the dynamic between the two of them. Based on what I have observed so far and yesterday in particular, I think this guy might have tried to challenge for dominance at some point. Truth be told, my money would have still been 100% on Ax, but they really seem to have been cut from the same cloth so to speak. Bad timing I guess. Max would have been the perfect protege...


I don't think Ax would have allowed it....he would have shaped Max to something else. There was only room for one Ax in your house.


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> I don't think Ax would have allowed it....he would have shaped Max to something else. There was only room for one Ax in your house.


I tend to agree Jenn. I think he would have nipped this in the bud on day 1 and Max would have taken "manners 101". One thing I can say with certainty, is that he wouldn't be sauntering over and putting his face in Ax's dish while he was eating like he does with impunity to Jack and Puffy. I do think though, based on what I've observed so far, that Max might have tried to compete for dominance at some point, though certainly not @ 5 months old and 40 lbs. I still lay 10-1 on Axl. lol

I also think that it would have made teaching him to be a disc dog a whole lot easier by utilizing his apparent competitiveness. By this I mean he would naturally try and compete for the flying disc and at least in theory have the skills when he matures, to somewhat approximate Ax's athletic abilities, much more so than Puffy ever had anyway.

Jack also might have benefited from such an interaction given his leaping abilities, but then again, he'd be more likely to have been intimidated to not compete as well.

Pure conjecture at this point unfortunately.


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## jennretz

AD - you have been so lucky to have 4 dogs with wonderful and diverse personalities starting with Ax, then Puffy, Jax and now Max.

I love reading about your guys. They all are going to live fun and active lives! They are family members to you and that's why they are all so amazing


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## alphadude

Was rudely awakened this morning by my wife screaming that Max was out casually sauntering around the ledge of the pool. He had apparently leaped over 26" high 'pen wall' serving as a fence. She was able to lure him over and snatch him up. The fact that I am not digging the early AM antics prompted yet another skirmish in the battle of the yard.

Max and I are now at WAR.

At work I came up with a plan to phrase it in military terms, for "area denial". I stopped at Home Depot and bought 2 8' x 2' sections of lattice and a bag of jumbo zip ties. As soon as I got home, I set about building "frankenfence'. Took about an hour. When I was satisfied that it was Max proof, I let him out and sat there observing. He checked it out, and promptly went down the stairs and wormed his way through a small opening where he is looking in the first pic, that apparently needed reinforcing. No problem, broke out my drill and screwed a piece of plywood over it. Feeling quite satisfied, I went and got Max, and brought him back to friendly territory. Once again I observed him. The little bugger went RIGHT BACK to the spot he had wormed through. Didn't work this time though. I continued to watch him probing for a weakness, his little brain working furiously. Would you believe the little creep lulled me into a false sense of security and in one deft little motion scrambled through a hole in the lattice on the stairs. I couldn't *believe* he squeezed his growing body through that hole and he did it quickly, before I could react and grab him. Once he was under there he turned around and I swear he was peering back at me, just out of reach and TAUNTING me with a satisfied smirk on his little face.

OK man, now he forced me to go nuclear. I went nuts screwing boards and lattice over every crevice a mouse could conceivably fit through. The sun was well down and I had been out there for 3 hours! FINALLY!

WRONG! He figured out there was just enough of a ledge (maybe an inch and a half) on the pool steps despite the plywood I had put there, to climb up and nimbly leap onto the railing. I saw this as he was trying to catch his balance and swiped him off with derision. I moved the stairs to the middle of the deck so they could not possibly be of any advantage to him.

I wish I could say I have confidence that I am going to win this war of the wills with him, but I do not.

I *fully expect* to let him out later tonight and see him either sauntering around the ledge of the pool, or busily digging in the mushroom patch next to the dead tree stump.


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## jennretz

Hilarious! PM if you ever want to know why I have a 600 square foot patio now ;-) let's just say it has something to do with Charlie and digging 


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## jennretz

PS - I can't wait to see your future endeavors lol


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## Macca

*Scoreboard?*

What a clever, determined (or is it hell-bent?) little dude. He must lay awake at night plotting his next moves. Maybe your next project could be a scoreboard with "Max vs. Humans" as the header.


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## Pilgrim123

Well, AD, you did want a smart little dog! Life with Max may be trying, but it sure isn't going to be boring!


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## dezymond

I haven't been here in forever...

Great to hear you have a new pup alphadude! He sounds like a real challenge and won't take "no" for an answer, stubborn funny little guy. Judging by the few posts I read Max does seem to be cut from the same cloth as Ax. He'll be a great companion for you.


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## alphadude

Today's score:

*Alphadude 1 Mad Max 0*

He was barking in frustration because he could not find a weakness to exploit. He even tried to squeeze between the vertical bars on the deck fencing. Not today pally.

Max shooting me a sullen, surly look after being thwarted today....


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## jennretz

alphadude said:


> Today's score:
> 
> *Alphadude 1 Mad Max 0*
> 
> He was barking in frustration because he could not find a weakness to exploit. He even tried to squeeze between the vertical bars on the deck fencing. Not today pally.
> 
> Max shooting me a sullen, surly look after being thwarted today....


That's brilliant! Quick question, are any humans going to be able to get to the pool??? ;-)


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> That's brilliant! Quick question, are any humans going to be able to get to the pool??? ;-)


I hadn't thought of that...DOH!

Just kidding. When I open the pool in about 5 weeks, of course all of the makeshift fencing will have to come down. That's the beauty of using zip ties. I'll be able to tear it down in 15 minutes.

My thinking is that I will either deal with the remains of the stump between now and then, OR I will rig up some sort of barrier to just block that part off until I do. I would have gone that route now except the original intent was to keep him off the cover of the pool so he didn't get caught in it and possibly drown. Once the pool is open, I am actually looking forward to seeing Max doing kamikaze leaps off the deck into it. Perhaps even Jack if he finally discovers he can actually swim! 

Then again, I am fairly confident that Max will force the issue before then by either figuring out a way to get over there or growing enough to be able to leap straight onto the pool ledge. He can almost do it now. At that point, it's game over.

There is precious little I relish in this life *MORE* than proving a point, and I wasn't about to let a 5 month old puppy get the best of me. After all, I am the man that broke Axl...


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## jennretz

...and the saga continues....Max, the pup who broke AD ;-)


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> ...and the saga continues....Max, the pup who broke AD ;-)


We shall see!


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## alphadude

2 days and counting ZERO jailbreaks for Mad Max....

My wife found a couple of old digital pics of Puffy as a pup. One pic he is lying there and emulating his older brother and idol at the time.

The other is pure fluffiness that earned him his nickname. He has actually still retained that fluffy 'puppy fur' on top of his head to this day @ almost 5. Max already lost his!


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## Pilgrim123

He reminds me of everyone's idea of a stuffed toy golden. In those pictures, he's definitely a lover, not a fighter.


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## jennretz

I ❤ that picture of Puffy!


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## Kalhayd

Oh puffy is quite the perfection of fluff! Love it


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## Macca

And I've noticed that Puffy also has the most glorious tail. He's probably the envy of the females in the neighborhood!


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## alphadude

The night we brought Puffy home @ 8 weeks

Pic in pool was a month later - end of July

Last is my personal favorite.


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## jennretz

I am Loving these pictures; now I see why Puffy became Puffy 


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## alphadude

Macca said:


> And I've noticed that Puffy also has the most glorious tail. He's probably the envy of the females in the neighborhood!


It sometimes gets matted. I try to brush it out but I'm not a 'run to the groomer' type of guy. I took Ax ONCE and he came out all perfumed and looking like a pretty boy. That lasted about 20 minutes before we hit the beach and he went swimming, then dug and rolled in the sand. You'd never know he had anything done. lol

After that, I'd break out the buzzer and do it myself when he needed a clipping. On many occasions I was forced to butcher his fur when he turned up full of 'tag along burrs' he'd get while chasing an errant disc over the dunes. He would sometimes look a little strange but he wasn't about the looking pretty, he was all about full throttle activity 100% of the time.

I should take Puffy one of these days. Been thinking about it actually. Make him look pretty for the girls - problem is he can actually DO something about it, he's intact. He's a handsome guy with an awesome coat but those beat back legs of his are a total deal breaker.


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> I am Loving these pictures; now I see why Puffy became Puffy
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Exactly Jenn, that's where he got his nickname.


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## Macca

Well, I think your Puffy is still a heartbreaker and it sounds like he has a sweet personality as well. When Rosie gets burrs in her coat I've had good luck with a spray on product called Satin Sheen, I just spray it on and wait a few minutes and use her comb and they slide right out. It's intended to be used on horses, but am glad I was told about it as it's saved me from having to cut the burrs out. Cowboy Magic is another one I like for her, helps to make her tail look a little more lush, but being a field golden her tail is nothing like Puffy's!


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## Wendy427

I had to laugh at your "pretty boy" comment about Ax's trip to the groomer. I had a male mini poodle long time ago. Took him to the groomer and he came back with a red bow on top of his head! When I saw my dog walker the next day (the 16 year old son of a friend), I asked him what he thought of Denny's grooming. He said, "Its nice but you gotta lose the bow!" We had a good laugh over that one!


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## alphadude

Wendy427 said:


> I had to laugh at your "pretty boy" comment about Ax's trip to the groomer. I had a male mini poodle long time ago. Took him to the groomer and he came back with a red bow on top of his head! When I saw my dog walker the next day (the 16 year old son of a friend), I asked him what he thought of Denny's grooming. He said, "Its nice but you gotta lose the bow!" We had a good laugh over that one!


I agree completely with you son's friend. lol

A friend's wife owned the grooming business, so she knew better than to put a bow on Ax. She did however, put a fruity looking bandanna on him that was a far cry from his typical black skulls and roses dew rag, or even his purple tie dye. It was 86'ed in short order.


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## alphadude

Macca said:


> Well, I think your Puffy is still a heartbreaker and it sounds like he has a sweet personality as well. When Rosie gets burrs in her coat I've had good luck with a spray on product called Satin Sheen, I just spray it on and wait a few minutes and use her comb and they slide right out. It's intended to be used on horses, but am glad I was told about it as it's saved me from having to cut the burrs out. Cowboy Magic is another one I like for her, helps to make her tail look a little more lush, but being a field golden her tail is nothing like Puffy's!


Yes I had been advised by several people on here regarding the Cowboy Magic. I would typically do my best to 'deburr' Ax on the spot @ the beach. He would come to me and sit patiently while I worked out as many as I could by hand which resulted in plenty of stabbed fingers, and an hour wasted. He was used to it though, never got nasty no matter how much it hurt, and just sucked it up. He knew it was just part of the game. I would attempt to call him off when I saw an errant disc heading that way, but once he was in pursuit mode, especially of a flying disc, (or a squirrel lol) there was just *no stopping* him. As most know, Ax did nothing half way, and one particular time, he had well over 100 on him. Somewhere I have a pic of that day and all of the burrs I pulled off him and tossed in one of his discs for 'posterity' on the beach.


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## alphadude

Max update:

20 weeks 42 lbs.

Still being held at bay by 'Frankenfence'.

Axl / Max (demon puppy) similarity checklist:

Obnoxious attitude: check
Fearless demeanor : check
Difficult house training : check
Leaping off high things with reckless abandon : check
Food aggressive (canines) : check
Destructive behavior : check
Loud obnoxious barking and growling : check
Frequent zoomie attacks for no apparent reason : check 
Complete willful disobediece : check
Frequent beatdowns administered to dogs twice his size and weight (Jack) : check
Clothing articles destroyed (including shoes) : check
Ridiculous non food objects ingested : check
Walls (interior) destroyed : 1 (In Progress)
Furniture (individual pieces) gnawed: 5 (and counting).


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## Wendy427

Yikes! Glad he has you for a dad! ;-)


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## jennretz

Max is going to be wonderful;-)


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> Max is going to be wonderful;-)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If he turns out to be half the dog his predecessor was, I'll sign on for that now...


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## Macca

Yep, this sounds like a match made in heaven!


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## alphadude

Macca said:


> Yep, this sounds like a match made in heaven!


Or somewhere decidedly south of there...


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## Cody'sMom

I laughed so hard at your checklist update! :grin2:


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## murphy1

In the past I compared my Kelly to your Ax. After that checklist I will compare Max to Kelly. The only thing missing is ingesting two thousand dollars in $50's. But I'll give him a bit more time.....she was seven months old


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## alphadude

Images and video of a 65 degree April day @ the beach...


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## jennretz

I love the picture of him rolling in the dirt


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> I love the picture of him rolling in the dirt


He had an intimate date with "Mr. Hosie" afterwards. lol He doesn't mind it a bit - just stood there stoically. Even Jackaroo is getting used to it finally.


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## alphadude

Had a couple of uninvited guests this afternoon. I was busy working on the filter when these two clowns splashed down into the pool! Max pretty near lost his mind and was trying to launch himself into the HEAVILY shock treated water! Good thing I have a temporary fence rigged up to keep him out. After all, he IS the product of generations of bird dogs from the wilds of Canada...

Just weighed the little bugger @ 5 months, 11 days old he is 47.8 lbs. 

He looks small to me though, I have a feeling he is going to be smaller than average.


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## jennretz

Have you ever had any interest in doing field work with a Max?


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> Have you ever had any interest in doing field work with a Max?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



I'm sure the breeder would love it but I don't know anywhere close to enough about it. 

If I can't turn him into a disc dog, I may just shoot for dock diving. I am in the process of opening up the pool a month earlier than usual so I can get a feel for both Max and Jack's aptitude for exactly that. They both love to jump and Max really seems to love the water judging from how he dives right into the bay


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## jennretz

alphadude said:


> I'm sure the breeder would love it but I don't know anywhere close to enough about it.
> 
> If I can't turn him into a disc dog, I may just shoot for dock diving. I am in the process of opening up the pool a month earlier than usual so I can get a feel for both Max and Jack's aptitude for exactly that. They both love to jump and Max really seems to love the water judging from how he dives right into the bay


I can just see you being a natural at it and loving some of the competitive nature of it 

Sounds like you have your hands full!


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## ltldog15

He's gorgeous. Congrats!!


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## alphadude

My daughter sent me this video today while I was at work. Max had a bout of indoor "zoomies". In it, you can clearly see the edge of the coffee table he chewed off. 

Still quite mild compared to the intensity and duration of his predecessor's act @ 5.5 months old...


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## jennretz

Hilarious video 


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## Macca

Ya gotta love those puppy zoomies. And apparently your sister did too! I never got tired of watching Rosie's frenzied runs around the living room, but am glad that these days her zoomies only happen in the backyard.


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## Wendy427

Golly he's gotten so big!!!


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## alphadude

Wendy427 said:


> Golly he's gotten so big!!!


He's a shade under 50 lbs now, but he still looks like a little twerp to me. I am hoping he eventually ends up near the breed standard (24" 75 lbs). I guess that's up to his genetics but he is certainly getting plenty of nutrition.


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## sophieanne

Wow!! I haven't looked in for a while. He is really grown!!! He'll be force to be reckoned with very soon I'm sure.


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## Cody'sMom

Looks like Max has his own indoor agility course!


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## alphadude

Was a very rough weekend around here...

Officially opened the pool this weekend with less than stellar results. After a bit of hesitation Max jumped in to retrieve a ball. This prompted Puffy to lumber down the steps and into the water to "save" him which nearly resulted in Max being drowned. Puffy has had this weird habit since puppyhood of gravitating toward anyone, human or canine that is in the pool, we believe attempting to very clumsily "rescue" them. Apparently it hasn't yet dawned on him that the humans don't need rescuing in a 4' deep pool. In this case, he pushed the puppy under and was on top of him and Max was unable to come up! Luckily, they were close enough to the side that I could snatch Max out from under the water and pull him to safety. Doesn't seem to have traumatized him though because after we restricted Puffy from the pool, Max did a bunch of water retrieves and was getting bolder with his leaps into the water. 

One disappointing thing I did notice however, was that Max appears to be a pretty awkward swimmer....not spazzy to the same degree as Puffy, but he was a long way from gliding though the water with an economy of motion and hardly a ripple like Ax (even as a puppy). Hopefully he will improve since he seems to love the water but I guess time will tell.

Jack seemed to want no part of the pool at all and stayed well clear of the festivities which is curious because Friday afternoon I had him do 30+ long distance retrieves from the bay.

On the topic of Jack, he's really feeling his oats all of a sudden because he viciously attacked Puffy twice today. The first time I was outside with Max, heard the commotion and ran in to find him with poor Puffy pinned to the ground being bitten in the face. Not sure which one started it so I immediately broke them up and took them outside with me. Everything was fine for a while, when all of a sudden it started again right in front of me and Jack was clearly the aggressor. I was forced to manhandle him, none too gently, into submission. When the fight started, Max went nuts and attacked Jack so I had a 3 way brawl on my hands.

1 day before his 5th birthday, poor Puffy has bloody tooth marks on each side of his face, a clump of missing fur, and a nasty scrape close to his eye. I was VERY ANGRY with Jack and luckily for him, I was (barely) able to contain it and not go into "dog park" mode on him when the adrenaline kicked in. 

I'm not sure why this is happening all of a sudden but I need to get him under control. It is not fair to poor, half lame, old before his time, Puffy to be subjected to this. He is slow and lumbering and really no match for Jack.

God how I miss Ax...there was *NONE* of this crap when he was around...



Max engaged in his favorite new pass time - endlessly circumnavigating the pool rail


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## Vhuynh2

When I was puppy sitting a very young pup just learning to swim, I threw a bumper into the pond just several feet in and she finally went in and was swimming after it. I was so excited about her getting in, until my older dog (who usually has a solid sit stay) got jealous and leapt into the pond and landed on top of the puppy. It wasn't on purpose, she was just trying to get to the bumper before the puppy. I felt awful, but the pup definitely recovered from that and became a good swimmer. 

Sorry to hear about the chaos that is going on in your house. I hope things get better soon.


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## jennretz

Give Puffy a big smooch from me...


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## murphy1

Poor Puffy! Could it be a "male" thing, trying to gain seniority? I forget, are all the guys neutered? Hope you work this out.

When i brought, Shamus the mastiff home , Kelly, my holy terror, jumped him a few times. It was terrifying.


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## alphadude

murphy1 said:


> Poor Puffy! Could it be a "male" thing, trying to gain seniority? I forget, are all the guys neutered? Hope you work this out.
> 
> When i brought, Shamus the mastiff home , Kelly, my holy terror, jumped him a few times. It was terrifying.


Murph, I wondered if it was a hormone thing as well. Puffy is intact, as is Max. Jack is neutered. If anything, I would expect an intact male to be more likely to attack a neutered male instead of the other way around. 

I think Jack is feeling his oats because he is now becoming much more physically fit from the increased exercise he has been getting. His thigh muscles felt like jelly when he arrived here last November. Now they are pretty buff - not diesel the way Ax's were, but definitely getting there. He continues to be very food / resource "greedy" likely from being underfed and mistreated for the first almost 2 years of his life so I am willing to cut him some slack - to a point. 

I think Jack has finally come to the realization that Puffy although strong and older, is slow, immobile and half lame. Even as submissive as Jack is, he can easily exert his will over him physically. 

It's an interesting dynamic because Max who is now 52 lbs and counting as well as closing in on 20" tall, seems to be able to completely intimidate Jack. Although he is not as strong, heavy, or coordinated as Jack, at this point anyway, he is apparently a far more challenging opponent than Puffy. He also seems to have a much more dominant personality and he will attack with reckless abandon. I have seen him take things (toys balls, etc.) away from Jack. Yesterday, when Jack attacked Puffy, Max went crazy and viciously attacked him - almost immediately. It was as if he was defending Puffy. Maybe it's a 'golden thing'.

I've noticed that Max seems to have a much different relationship with Puffy than he has with Jack. I often see Max calmly approach Puffy and lick his face and use him as a pillow, whereas with Jack, it's ALWAYS roughhousing, play fighting, or competing for a resource.


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## Rundlemtn

alphadude said:


> Murph, I wondered if it was a hormone thing as well. Puffy is intact, as is Max. Jack is neutered. If anything, I would expect an intact male to be more likely to attack a neutered male instead of the other way around.
> 
> I think Jack is feeling his oats because he is now becoming much more physically fit from the increased exercise he has been getting. His thigh muscles felt like jelly when he arrived here last November. Now they are pretty buff - not diesel the way Ax's were, but definitely getting there. He continues to be very food / resource "greedy" likely from being underfed and mistreated for the first almost 2 years of his life so I am willing to cut him some slack - to a point.
> 
> I think Jack has finally come to the realization that Puffy although strong and older, is slow, immobile and half lame. Even as submissive as Jack is, he can easily exert his will over him physically.
> 
> It's an interesting dynamic because Max who is now 52 lbs and counting as well as closing in on 20" tall, seems to be able to completely intimidate Jack. Although he is not as strong, heavy, or coordinated as Jack, at this point anyway, he is apparently a far more challenging opponent than Puffy. He also seems to have a much more dominant personality and he will attack with reckless abandon. I have seen him take things (toys balls, etc.) away from Jack. Yesterday, when Jack attacked Puffy, Max went crazy and viciously attacked him - almost immediately. It was as if he was defending Puffy. Maybe it's a 'golden thing'.
> 
> I've noticed that Max seems to have a much different relationship with Puffy than he has with Jack. I often see Max calmly approach Puffy and lick his face and use him as a pillow, whereas with Jack, it's ALWAYS roughhousing, play fighting, or competing for a resource.


Only you will know the answer to this, but, after these incidents, I would start to question the "fit" of Jack with the others. He might be better suited to an only dog home, given his issues with resource guarding. This of course is something that can be worked on, but, its hard to do in a multi-dog home. I know you're not one to give up on dogs easily, which is admirable. And it sucks because you don't want to further traumatize Jack, by sending him to yet another home. However, I think careful consideration needs to be given to what is in the best interest of everyone. How many incidents, or how severe of an incident would be needed to come to this conclusion. I'm just worried, because Puffy did come first, and I feel like his comfort and happiness needs to be prioritized. I know that you, or the rescue Jack came from (can't remember if you officially adopted) would ensure that he goes to a good, well-suited home. Just a thought...


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## alphadude

3Pebs3 said:


> Only you will know the answer to this, but, after these incidents, I would start to question the "fit" of Jack with the others. He might be better suited to an only dog home, given his issues with resource guarding. This of course is something that can be worked on, but, its hard to do in a multi-dog home. I know you're not one to give up on dogs easily, which is admirable. And it sucks because you don't want to further traumatize Jack, by sending him to yet another home. However, I think careful consideration needs to be given to what is in the best interest of everyone. How many incidents, or how severe of an incident would be needed to come to this conclusion. I'm just worried, because Puffy did come first, and I feel like his comfort and happiness needs to be prioritized. I know that you, or the rescue Jack came from (can't remember if you officially adopted) would ensure that he goes to a good, well-suited home. Just a thought...


Unfortunately, that scenario had already crossed my mind. We got Jack from a legitimate rescue and would be obligated to return him if for any reason he can't stay with us as opposed to re-homing him up here. Hopefully, it will not come to that because I think Jack is a really great dog with unlimited potential.- especially athletically. He has a sweet disposition with people and is affectionate to the point of being clingy and at times annoying. I would hate to have to send him back down to Georgia to spend his days locked up in a cage as opposed to having the run of our home, pool. access to a beach to run, play and swim on a daily basis, plenty of high quality food, and a family that cares about him. That said, my first allegiance and priority must be to Puffy who was here first and should not have to be wary about being attacked in his own home.

I am hoping that Max is going to be my ace in the hole. The reason I say that is that I can guarantee with 100% certainty, that this would not have been an issue back when Ax was around. He would have absolutely kept Jack in his place and would not have allowed him to harm Puffy. I witnessed Ax run off aggressive dogs messing with Puffy on more than one occasion. If anything, Jack would have been the one bleeding the first time he tried, and he likely would not have tried it again. When Ax laid down the law, he did so in a manner that was "memorable". Max seems to have a similar personality to Ax. He is at this point not nearly as dominant as Ax was, nor as fearless, but he does show signs of being way more dominant than either of the other two. I actually am encouraged by the fact that he went after Jack yesterday while he was attacking Puffy. 

I guess I'm just going to have to be extra vigilant and make sure the 3 stooges are extra tired for a while.


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## jennretz

Before I jumped to rehoming, I'd pay attention to what is leading up to the attacks. There is such a thing as trigger stacking (especially in dogs who are fearful) and a lot of Jax earlier behaviors could be labeled as fearful (submissive peeing, etc). It is a natural inclination to blame the dog that is doing the attacking, but are there signals that are being given off prior to it happening. 

I have a foster right now who is very much a puppy. She is getting into Charlie's face on occasion and he's not so cool with that. He growls at her to communicate knock it off, but leading up to it he's sending off signals that something is making him uncomfortable. I wonder if Jax is picking up on something from Puffy (or if he's viewing you as his resource and is jealous of Puffy). A lot of what-if's, but I wouldn't immediately jump to rehoming.


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> Before I jumped to rehoming, I'd pay attention to what is leading up to the attacks. There is such a thing as trigger stacking (especially in dogs who are fearful) and a lot of Jax earlier behaviors could be labeled as fearful (submissive peeing, etc). It is a natural inclination to blame the dog that is doing the attacking, but are there signals that are being given off prior to it happening.
> 
> I have a foster right now who is very much a puppy. She is getting into Charlie's face on occasion and he's not so cool with that. He growls at her to communicate knock it off, but leading up to it he's sending off signals that something is making him uncomfortable. I wonder if Jax is picking up on something from Puffy (or if he's viewing you as his resource and is jealous of Puffy). A lot of what-if's, but I wouldn't immediately jump to rehoming.


Agreed, Jen. Bailing on Jack would definitely be the last option explored.

You could well be correct about there possibly being a trigger coming from Puffy. I noticed a few times last night after all the fireworks during the day, he wrinkled his lip at Max when he approached. Don't know whether the poor guy was just shell shocked, or just not in the mood. The other option is that he is not feeling well. I have a funny feeling that he is not well - nothing I can exactly put my finger on - he is eating normally and his bodily functions seem normal, but I can't shake the feeling that he is unwell. My wife said that to me earlier today also. I need to get him to the vet one of these days when finances allow, but externally he seems normal. He seems pretty lethargic most days and sleeps alot. He was never really a dynamo, but it just seems like he is old before his time. He turns 5 today.


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## sophieanne

Happy Birthday handsome Puffy!!!!
I hope whatever is going on resolves itself, no one wants to live in a war zone and you don't want any dog getting hurt! Good luck.


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## jennretz

AD - trust your instincts.I would get Puffy to the vet. I think Jax is doing fight or flight; especially if Puffy is raising his lip.

Happy Birthday Puffy ❤


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## Jessie'sGirl

Poor Puffy, I hope it all works out.


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## alphadude

Got some video of Max LAUNCHING himself into the pool chasing a tennis ball earlier after Puffy and I got back from his solo birthday beach outing.

Max is already swimming much better, more 'Axl-like'. He is a quick study but I guess he should be coming from generations of accomplished water dogs.

Jack provided a bit of comic relief at the end of the video. I had him and Puffy blocked off from the deck while I was working with Max to avoid a repeat of the near drowning fiasco yesterday. Jack decided he was going to worm his way around the makeshift partition instead of jumping it as he EASILY could have done and ended up falling into the pool. OK no problem, the steps are 6' to your left dude, Max is sitting on them. Jack completely froze up and refused to move! I gave him a minute or 2 and tried to encourage him to swim or even "side hang" over to them but he wouldn't budge an inch. I finally had to drag him by the collar over there and yank him up the stairs. Sometimes I just don't understand that dog. Perhaps I'm just used to goldens that intuitively understand these things, or maybe he's just a sissyboy. lol


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## Macca

Great video! Looks like Max is loving it, doing what he was born to do. I hope you don't have any more skirmishes between your "kids" for a while.


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## alphadude

Macca said:


> Great video! Looks like Max is loving it, doing what he was born to do. I hope you don't have any more skirmishes between your "kids" for a while.


Interestingly enough, when Puffy and I returned from the beach, Max and Jack were in the yard with my daughter. Jack looked as if he was getting ready to start some crap with Puffy and Max launched into a very nasty sustained attack on him (Jack) that I was actually forced to put a stop to. Jack seems to be *completely intimidated* by the puppy for whatever reason. Perhaps Max is channeling his inner Axl.


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## SandyK

Cute video! Looks like Max is having fun. Had to laugh at the end with Jack hanging on to the side of the pool. Hope everything resolves with them all getting along.


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## alphadude

I sent a link to the video on YT to his breeder Mike DuCross of Ambertrail. This is the response he sent me:

Paul, His water entry is strong for a puppy...once he grows up a little more he will be a good "dock diving dog"
Thanks for the update on max...
Mike


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## jennretz

I've always wanted to do dock diving


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> I've always wanted to do dock diving
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Was thinking I might build him a wooden dock so he can practice launching into the pool.


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## alphadude

Max practices leaping Pro Ring catches, 1 day before he is officially 6 months old...I may YET make a disc dog out of him but we've got a long way to go.


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## Pilgrim123

He does very well on the catches! AD, if he doesn't make it as a disc dog, I reckon he'd still make a great dock diving dog instead. Maybe not the sport you hoped he'd be good at, but, seeing my Honey who has the athletic ability of a beached walrus - she trips over shadows when she's walking! - he's got a heap of promise.


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## alphadude

Pilgrim123 said:


> He does very well on the catches! AD, if he doesn't make it as a disc dog, I reckon he'd still make a great dock diving dog instead. Maybe not the sport you hoped he'd be good at, but, seeing my Honey who has the athletic ability of a beached walrus - she trips over shadows when she's walking! - he's got a heap of promise.


No reason he can't be a two sport canine athlete. I'd be just fine with that. 

Jack has made some strides with catching discs recently as well. He caught around a 35 yarder yesterday.and then, of course, promptly took off and went on a little unauthorized adventure over the dune. This ignoring his recall command is getting old fast.


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## jennretz

I love your adventures with your crew


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> I love your adventures with your crew
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's all fun and games ... right up until Jack gets flattened by a car on one of his little unauthorized adventures.


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## sophieanne

Whoops..I misread the post about flattened Jack.
I'm like Jenn, dogs not allowed off leash except in the yard.
too many distractions.


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## jennretz

alphadude said:


> It's all fun and games ... right up until Jack gets flattened by a car on one of his little unauthorized adventures.




Agreed! Recall must be sound. Mine are never off-leash outside the backyard for that reason. They are not reliable.


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## murphy1

Same with Murphy! He was great before he turned about a year.


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## alphadude

I guess I'm spoiled after dealing with Ax. After reaching adulthood, he NEVER disobeyed a command from me to return. All it typically required was a hand signal and he would come at top speed when we were out and about at the beach or park. Even Puffy has a very reliable recall.

Jack will come most times when in close proximity but I've noticed when he gets a good distance away, he acts as if he is not being called and trust me, he hears EVERYTHING, there is nothing wrong with his hearing.

I am actually contemplating getting Jack a shock or at minimum a vibrating collar to try and fix this issue. It will definitely be preferable to him being turned into 'road pizza' because he has canine add and refuses to obey a recall command. 

The alternative is not letting him off leash as some have suggested, but we are FINALLY starting to make real progress now with the disc thing. His eye mouth coordination has improved quite a bit and although he possesses none of Ax's uncanny skill of estimating the discs probable landing location, and more importantly none of his enthusiasm, drive or work ethic, he still has the raw talent to be a better than average disc dog. I was watching him yesterday and I noticed that he is really fast (not Axl fast) but plenty fast enough for our purposes. The trick is motivation. I am hoping when Max gets a bit older, I can play them off against each other using their natural competitiveness for a high value object. Max thinks it's his food dish and the Jack knows this also. That's the plan anyway.

My yard is nowhere close to big enough for that activity - or at least doing anything other than rudimentary drills. If I take him to a fenced dog park, that brings a whole set of other concerns including him getting the snot beat out of him which will undoubtedly happen, as well as the fact that he can easily jump a 4' fence if the mood strikes him.


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## alphadude

Seems eerily familiar...


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## Rundlemtn

alphadude said:


> Seems eerily familiar...


Looking good!!


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## Wendy427

So cool! Looks like he's into it!


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## alphadude

Wendy427 said:


> So cool! Looks like he's into it!


Yes, all of a sudden he seems to have developed a fondness for catching airborne objects at almost exactly 6 months old to the day. Perhaps I can make a disc dog out of him...


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## alphadude

Update on Max:

Memorial Day 5-29-17. A week shy of 7 months old, Max is roughly 22" tall at the withers and a shade under 60 lbs (58.4 to be exact).

He has proven to be an intelligent little bugger and quite a problem solver. He is also a huge fan of counter surfing, and lately has developed an annoying habit of jumping up onto tables via the chairs. 

He has also begun to really assert his dominance, especially where Jack is concerned. Several times recently, he has "laid into" Jack who still has 2" and 20 lbs on him, to the point where poor Jack was squealing in pain and I had to forceably separate them and restrain Max until he calmed down. Haven't really noticed that behavior with Puffy yet, but I'm not sure why. It could be that Max knows he is older and respects him OR he has noticed that Puffy can't do the things physically that he and Jack can and doesn't view him as much of a threat to his dominance. By this I mean running fast, and jumping. 

Jacks days of hoarding resources are basically over and Max will take whatever he wants from either of them most times without any protest. I kind of figured all along that things would work out this way but it has been interesting to watch the dynamic change over time.

In the pics you can see Max and Jack on top of the storage bin where Puffy can't go. Max notices that Puffy has the tennis ball that he wants so he hops down, takes it away from Puffy (without protest) and hops back up.

In the next pic, he is demonstrating that he figured out how to get @ things on the 5' high shelf on the gazebo! He will even move the chair closer if necessary.

Last pic he is taunting Jack with the spoils of his counter surfing expedition - a full box of Milk Bones which was quickly taken from him before he ripped it open for an impromptu picnic.

Max has also developed quite a fondness for swimming and it's like pulling teeth to keep him out of the pool. When I let him out to relieve himself, more often than not, I'll hear a splash of him diving in. He is quickly becoming an accomplished swimmer.

Jack on the other hand seems to be deathly afraid of the pool and won't go near it.


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## Pilgrim123

I can't believe how much he has grown! He really seems to be pleased with his "treasure."


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## Macca

Yes, he has really grown up, and what a handsome dog! It sounds like his personality is really coming through and his breeder must have picked just the right one for you. The picture with the Milk Bone box tells it all. He probably thought he was going to enjoy them all himself. How is he coming along with the discs?


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## alphadude

Macca said:


> Yes, he has really grown up, and what a handsome dog! It sounds like his personality is really coming through and his breeder must have picked just the right one for you. The picture with the Milk Bone box tells it all. He probably thought he was going to enjoy them all himself. How is he coming along with the discs?


Thank you. He's getting there. I think he's going to be a little twerp, and I'm hoping he continues to add a bit of height especially given the fact that I have no plans to have him neutered which tends to result in shorter dogs.

He seems to have the right stuff attitude wise, and his eye mouth coordination is improving as is his speed. He is already pretty good (~ 50%) at catching discs but like Jack, he has to be in the "mood" to do so. I am hoping that with continued hard work, I can teach him to be a marginal disc dog, but I doubt he'll ever come close to the skill level and the drive that Axl possessed. Who knows, maybe he'll surprise me, but the early returns say no.


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## alphadude

It FINALLY decided to stop raining here in NY and we spent pretty much the whole weekend outside.

I thought Max and I needed some 'male bonding' time so I took him to one of my favorite spots where Ax and I used to have heart to hearts through the years. It is a bench in a park on a cliff overlooking the bay. He didn't seem interested in chatting much...

Today on one of the first real hot days of the summer we worked on his water launches. He seems to have a really strong water entry (according to his breeder) and he is now landing more often than not halfway across the 16' wide pool.

22" tall and 60 lbs on the nose @ 7 months.


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## Pilgrim123

Good to see you two again! Max looks like a natural at dock diving. He sure gets a long way across that pool, without a great deal of run-up. He's a handsome devil.


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## Macca

He sure does seem to have natural talent in the water. I love his enthusiasm and athleticism - had to replay the video a few times with the audio on just because I love to hear the sound of the splash as he hits the water! And because it's been hot here and I wish I had a pool!


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## jennretz

Love the video. Puffy sure looked like he wanted to go after it as well 


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> Love the video. Puffy sure looked like he wanted to go after it as well
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Actually, Puffy has been behaving somewhat strangely. He will just sit on the stairs with his lower third in the water, barking and whining. I am not sure what the deal is with him. I think he is totally frustrated by Max ALWAYS beating him to whatever object is tossed into the pool and he has just given up trying. I would think he'd be used to second place after living his whole life in Ax's shadow. Years past, he would sedately slip off the stairs and clumsily swim around, seemingly just for the joy of it but he rarely does that anymore. Now it's Max swimming laps. I think Puffy needs a canine psychologist. He probably doesn't understand why he is unable to do the things physically that Ax could, now Max and even Jack seem to do effortlessly. Poor guy was just dealt a beat hand. Not his fault.

Speaking of Jack I was able to coax him up onto the deck, over to the stairs and very gently tug him down the steps and into the pool. He started swimming and went directly to the far side where he put his paws on the top rail with his back legs on the bottom and stood there. I let him chill for a bit before gently guiding him back toward the stairs and then, *of course*, Max seized the opportunity to launch himself off the deck and into the pool, landing directly on Jack's back, and give him a little aquatic "what for". Even Puffy joined in the chaos. Jack of course, started freaking out and I had to deal with preventing the 3 "geniuses" (60, 80, & 90+ lbs) from drowning each other. Jack is probably traumatized.


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## alphadude

Macca said:


> He sure does seem to have natural talent in the water. I love his enthusiasm and athleticism - had to replay the video a few times with the audio on just because I love to hear the sound of the splash as he hits the water! And because it's been hot here and I wish I had a pool!


Early returns would seem to indicate that he is going to be a much better dock diver than disc dog. Just seems like it's in his wheel house. I am looking into where I can take him. I did a little research and I'm thinking I might build him a little platform the standard 4' above water level but I'm afraid he might just hit the far side of the pool. It's clear he is crazy enough to try it


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## jennretz

AD - is Puffy in pain do you think? Might be worth having him checked out.

And poor Jax - just when he's getting the feel for it and Max is the typically teenager


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> AD - is Puffy in pain do you think? Might be worth having him checked out.
> 
> And poor Jax - just when he's getting the feel for it and Max is the typically teenager


The though had crossed my mind Jen but his behavior is otherwise normal. I guess I really should take him to be looked at but other than what I described, he really has no specific symptoms. His appetite is normal, his bodily functions normal.


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## alphadude

*Max's 1st vacation to Ocean City Maryland and Assateague Island*

Some shots of Max on the beach with his 'mother' Christina...(my daughter). We took him to Assateague Island - the famous island where wild horses roam free. Max does NOT like horses apparently because when they came up to the car he went absolutely INSANE. I haven't heard sounds like that since Ax was in his last dog fight...

Also, Max the escape artist, slipped his collar on the beach and led us on quite a merry chase, much to the amusement of other beach goers. Should have named him Harry for Houdini. Day before we left for vacation, he figured out how to use the rim of the pool to vault over the 5' fence and escape into the neighbor's yard.


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## Cody'sMom

Oooooo Max! You are no longer a "puppy"!

You behave yourself (or not). :wink2:

Connie :wavey:


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## alphadude

Cody'sMom said:


> Oooooo Max! You are no longer a "puppy"!
> 
> You behave yourself (or not). :wink2:
> 
> Connie :wavey:


He just turned 8 months old and is closing in on 23" tall and 65 lbs. Not really a puppy any more and he picks his spots where behavior is concerned...


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## jennretz

Wow, I can't believe Max is 8 months old. So handsome


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> Wow, I can't believe Max is 8 months old. So handsome
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks Jen! 

Little Max is WIPED!

Although Max has many similarities and mannerisms in common with his predecessor, he has nowhere close to his energy level or stamina.


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## LynnC

He's such a handsome boy . It's so nice to see a dog friendly beach. We can only bring dogs to the beach here October 1 - April 30. Nice photos, thanks for sharing.


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## alphadude

LynnC said:


> He's such a handsome boy . It's so nice to see a dog friendly beach. We can only bring dogs to the beach here October 1 - April 30. Nice photos, thanks for sharing.


Thank you Lynn.

You're in NJ? I used to take Ax to the beach all the time in Wildwood during the summer. They are very chill down there and they even recently added a dedicated dog beach. I think there are a few dog friendly beaches up near Point Pleasant, and I seem to recall being allowed to take dogs to Island Beach state park (Seaside) also.


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## LynnC

alphadude said:


> Thank you Lynn.
> 
> You're in NJ? I used to take Ax to the beach all the time in Wildwood during the summer. They are very chill down there and they even recently added a dedicated dog beach. I think there are a few dog friendly beaches up near Point Pleasant, and I seem to recall being allowed to take dogs to Island Beach state park (Seaside) also.


Yes, we have a home on LBI We can take the dogs to few places bayside but not on the ocean beaches in the summer. Your right about Island Beach State Park, sometimes we go by boat & anchor in the bay & go there. It's beautiful there


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## alphadude

LynnC said:


> Y Your right about Island Beach State Park, sometimes we go by boat & anchor in the bay & go there. It's beautiful there


Not sure if Island Beach open to the public again yet...the corpulent governor might still be holding private beach parties....lol


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## LynnC

alphadude said:


> Not sure if Island Beach open to the public again yet...the corpulent governor might still be holding private beach parties....lol


Hahaha. Yes it's open . That whole debacle was so ridiculous!


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## alphadude

Took in a sunset on the beach this evening, just me and Max....kind of a testosterone fest while the girls hit the 'outlets'.

Was kind of a drag because Max needed to stay leashed and he hasn't yet learned to sit quietly and appreciate a beautiful sunset @ the beach.


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## Pilgrim123

That takes me back a bit.


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## mylissyk

He's a beautiful puppy!

I was going back through the last month or so of posts, and watched the video of Angus. I do think he is in pain, he looks really stiff in the back end, and his back legs seem weak. Since you already know he has hip issues he really would benefit from daily pain medication. It can make a huge difference in quality of life for dogs that are dealt a lousy hand in the structure department. I've seen a lot of dogs in the rescue that had bad hips and really improved when we put them on daily medication and joint supplements. 

Just fyi, it is common for altered males to go after intact males, and Jack is probably trying to set his position in the pack. Max, despite his young age, is already filling the spot at the top of the totem pole. It's nice to know he looks out for Puffy.


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## alphadude

Some pics of my daughter Christina and her 'son' @ the beach just before sunset. Tonight we discovered that Max HATES sandcastles and either destroys or urinates on (typically both) everyone he encounters. He also LOVES rolling in the sand...


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## alphadude

mylissyk said:


> He's a beautiful puppy!
> 
> I was going back through the last month or so of posts, and watched the video of Angus. I do think he is in pain, he looks really stiff in the back end, and his back legs seem weak. Since you already know he has hip issues he really would benefit from daily pain medication. It can make a huge difference in quality of life for dogs that are dealt a lousy hand in the structure department. I've seen a lot of dogs in the rescue that had bad hips and really improved when we put them on daily medication and joint supplements.
> 
> Just fyi, it is common for altered males to go after intact males, and Jack is probably trying to set his position in the pack. Max, despite his young age, is already filling the spot at the top of the totem pole. It's nice to know he looks out for Puffy.


I am looking into alternatives to rimadyl for pain management such as cannabis oil and related products. I want to improve his quality of his life, not shorten it. Unfortunately, as you said, Angus was dealt a lousy hand structurally. It's a shame really, he'd likely have been a totally different dog if he was physically capable of trying to keep up with Ax all those years.

I have actually read recently about altered males attacking intact ones. It is interesting to watch on a daily basis as the 'pack' dynamic changes, sometimes subtly, sometimes not. Recently, the last couple of weeks, Jack seems to have become much more assertive, and on a few occasions was beating the crap out of Max which he is clearly still capable of doing. I think he may be making a move for the top spot...I also don't think it's going to succeed.


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## alphadude

Whoa! Fireworks upon arriving home from OC! 

Max, for whatever reason decided he was just fine with Jack, but he launched into multiple very nasty attacks on poor Puffy who did absolutely nothing to deserve it, aside from happily greet him. 

I can only imagine it is because they are both intact males and Max is really feeling his oats.

I separated them for a while and when I allowed them to interact again, Max attacked him 3 more times. The final time he attacked Puffy, he had a death grip on his cheek and would not let go. Puffy strangely did not fight back at all.

I was forced to employ some old school behavior modification techniques last needed about 9 years ago when Ax was an adolescent. I needed to get very physical to get him under control. I certainly didn't hurt Max, but exerted more than enough force to show him that I could render him totally powerless and held him that way for a while - at least a minute. That seems to have calmed him down, although he definitely sulked for a while. We are back to being pals again, he's currently laying against my feet and he seems totally normal. I seriously doubt any lasting damage was done to our relationship, considering the number of times Ax and I butted heads when he was young and ended up being best buds. Some may not agree but I think this is necessary when dealing with dominant male dogs.

Never a dull moment with this crew. 

Puffy looks kind of paunchy to me which is definitely not helping his bad hips, legs issue. His portions are being cut and I will increase his exercise. 

Strange how things change so quickly. Was only gone 5 days. Max now looks to be the same height as Puffy


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## murphy1

my heart breaks for poor Puffy. Maybe it's time to neuter Max. I don't understand the need "not too". I've had a few male dogs. all neutered by nine months. When you have a few boys living together. it might be for the best.


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## jennretz

AD - Puffy is being very restrained; he does not want trouble with Max. That means he's a gem of a dog  I hope he gets some relief from the pain. 


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## alphadude

murphy1 said:


> my heart breaks for poor Puffy. Maybe it's time to neuter Max. I don't understand the need "not too". I've had a few male dogs. all neutered by nine months. When you have a few boys living together. it might be for the best.


I prefer not to neuter at all because I am of the school of thought that sex hormones produced by the testes help support the immune system which is the first/best line of defense against horrible cancers goldens are prone to. I have read many studies which seem to validate this scientifically/statistically. I would rather deal with the cons of having intact males. I OBVIOUSLY would never let Puffy breed, but I still would resist neutering him for health/immune system reasons.

Additionally, I may at some point, want to breed Max with one of the females @ Ambertrails, especially if he turns out to be a great dog. Mike DuCross (Max's breeder), mentioned that as a future option. Max is a grandson of the famous Canadian triple champion golden 'Push'.

I *ALWAYS* regretted allowing Ax to be neutered. It would have been great to have a son of his still running around. Aside from the apparent predisposition to hemangio that took his life, he was a magnificent natural athlete, the smartest dog I have ever known, had keen eyesight, limitless energy and drive, and was absolutely fearless. Several weeks before his death, the vet working on him told me that he had the heart, lungs, HIPS and KNEES of a much younger dog than his 8.5 years...in PERFECT condition. Considering all the wear and tear from his extremely strenuous lifestyle, I feel that is indicative of very good genetics.

Also, after I posted about the incident, I got the other half of the story from my daughter who was first in as I was dealing with luggage. Apparently Puffy greeted Max by attempting to mount him. That was always a big no-no with Ax, and apparently Max is not a fan of it either so at least it makes some kind of sense as to what triggered it. Ax would have made his point and left it at that. Apparently Max held a grudge for a little while.


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## Pilgrim123

Ah, thanks for the clarification. There's usually a trigger to bad behaviour - it's us humans who can't read the signs.


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## alphadude

Pilgrim123 said:


> Ah, thanks for the clarification. There's usually a trigger to bad behaviour - it's us humans who can't read the signs.


I used to be so adept at reading canine body language when Ax was still around. I guess I'm out of practice.

On another topic, check out the Max Escape Mitigation Measures...little bugger was using the top rail of the pool to launch himself over the 5' brown fence. He really is quite the escape artist. We'll see how long this holds him...


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## Pilgrim123

He's so darned bright that I think you may end up with Fort Knox! (You have to admit it was clever of him to work out how to use the pool for escape.)


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## alphadude

Pilgrim123 said:


> He's so darned bright that I think you may end up with Fort Knox! (You have to admit it was clever of him to work out how to use the pool for escape.)


He REALLY is too smart and too daring for his own good. I am positive now that I have blocked one escape route, he will find another. My guess is that he will use the back (white fence) next, even though it is 6' tall. The pool is even closer to that one, and he is definitely capable of getting over it if he tries. I should erect some more deterrent lattice there proactively before he figures it out. He is really a PITA.


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## Pilgrim123

alphadude said:


> He REALLY is too smart and too daring for his own good.........He is really a PITA.


.....and you cannot imagine being without that PITA! I really feel he is the right dog in the right place and I couldn't be more thrilled for you both.


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## murphy1

Since he's become the daring dog, I hope he's not wearing a collar at home.


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## alphadude

murphy1 said:


> Since he's become the daring dog, I hope he's not wearing a collar at home.


Good point Murph. I would ALWAYS remove both Ax a well as Puffy's collars the minute they were home. As much as those 2 play fought, I was always worried one or the other of them would get their jaw stuck in the other one's collar. Neither one was a flight risk - Ax knew better and Puffy, well he's not exactly fleet of foot. I guess I'll have to weight the risks of Max hanging choking due to his antics against him escaping without a collar...not an easy choice.


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## Pilgrim123

Is he microchipped?


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## alphadude

Sunset on the beach beach @ Wildwood with Max and family...

Tonight was very difficult for me. This time last year, I was on this exact beach with Ax and he was Ax for basically the last time...he was diagnosed 3 days later. He was catching 90 yard bombs and giving 110% with 2 bleeding tumors in his gut. Truth be told, he was dying, but he still performed just like always. 

Max to his credit was extremely energetic and was racing around chasing his tennis ball in the water and down the beach. His speed is really improving and tonight I noticed that he 'lopes' back after retrieving the the item almost identically to Ax. He went for almost 2 hours straight but man was he wiped when we brought him back to the room. He ate his dinner and sacked right out. Didn't move until a few minutes ago @ 1 AM when he seems to have gotten his second wind

He also seems to very driven to focus on his 'job' which at this point seems like it's retrieving a tennis ball no matter where it goes. I am hoping at some point to shift his focus to discs.


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## alphadude

Pilgrim123 said:


> Is he microchipped?


No, he is supposedly tattooed according to the breeder but I have never noticed it.


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## mylissyk

alphadude said:


> No, he is supposedly tattooed according to the breeder but I have never noticed it.


Invest in a microchip. They are permanent identification that you register with your name and contact information. Tattoos, as you already can tell, fade or are hard to find and mean nothing to the general person looking for id on a dog. They also don't have any registration database that would track back to you.


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## Pilgrim123

Here in Aus, every dog has to be registered with the council and every dog must be microchipped to be registered. It means there is a permanent form of identification for every dog over 3 months of age, even if they lose their dogtags and collar. I think it is a great scheme, which has certainly helped in the return of many of strays.


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## alphadude

Took Max and Jack to the beach together this afternoon. I did this specifically so I could gauge Max's physical development.

My thought process was let's see how Max's speed has improved as compared to Jack. They both love chasing tennis balls so I let them have at it.

The first time was basically a dead heat...maybe Jack by half a step. After that however, I am extremely disappointed to say, that Max essentially gave up pretty much every race and either ran well short of full speed or did not bother running at all. He will run like his life depends on it after a ball when alone but is seemingly uninterested in physical competition with Jack. 

I understand that Max is still growing and developing @ 8 months and change old and I didn't really expect him to out perform Jack who is just over 2 years old in his prime. What I did expect, was him to at least try...


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## murphy1

I have to say AD, I feel you will never be happy with Max if you keep comparing him to Ax. I've owned quite a few dogs in my life time, three of them Goldens, all were different from one another. Enjoy your new boy for who he is, just like us humans, we all have our strengths and weaknesses.


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## alphadude

murphy1 said:


> I have to say AD, I feel you will never be happy with Max if you keep comparing him to Ax. I've owned quite a few dogs in my life time, three of them Goldens, all were different from one another. Enjoy your new boy for who he is, just like us humans, we all have our strengths and weaknesses.


Murph, not comparing him to Ax, that would not be fair to him. It would be the next closest thing to impossible for him or any dog for that matter, to live up to that standard, in my mind anyway.

I just found it very odd and disappointing that he seemed to shy away from competition after observing his 'personality' over the last 7 months or so. He is certainly not afraid of Jack, quite the contrary. 

When alone, he chases tennis balls as if his life depends on it. He is at this point, already physically capable of running just as fast as Jack, I've seen him do it. It was just weird and very unexpected.


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## Yaichi's Mom

alphadude said:


> I just found it very odd and disappointing that he seemed to shy away from competition after observing his 'personality' over the last 7 months or so. He is certainly not afraid of Jack, quite the contrary.
> 
> When alone, he chases tennis balls as if his life depends on it. He is at this point, already physically capable of running just as fast as Jack, I've seen him do it. It was just weird and very unexpected.


AD, in this case it just may be pack dynamics. Perhaps Max is deferring to Jack out of "respect" of doggie sort and not a matter of Max not being competitive. It would be interesting to see what an outcome would be if you repeated the same exercise with a dog who is not part of your pack. 

Not all dogs are sport competitive with other dogs, however they can be excellent athletes in their own right.

For example, my Brisby will swim like the wind to retrieve, however she will defer if one of her friend pack goes for the object. I have never considered this a weakness, just a reflection of her personality and gentle nature. JMHO and few cents...


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## Yaichi's Mom

mylissyk said:


> Invest in a microchip. They are permanent identification that you register with your name and contact information. Tattoos, as you already can tell, fade or are hard to find and mean nothing to the general person looking for id on a dog. They also don't have any registration database that would track back to you.



There are pros and cons to micro-chipping. 

https://www.vetinfo.com/the-side-effects-of-microchipping-dogs.html

Personal decision of "safety" vs risk.

Microchips: Are Pet Owners Being Misled? - Dogs Naturally Magazine

http://www.thepetwhisperer.com/health-tips/are-micro-chips-safe-and-what-is-your-alternative/


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## ceegee

alphadude said:


> Murph, not comparing him to Ax, that would not be fair to him. It would be the next closest thing to impossible for him or any dog for that matter, to live up to that standard, in my mind anyway.
> 
> I just found it very odd and disappointing that he seemed to shy away from competition after observing his 'personality' over the last 7 months or so. He is certainly not afraid of Jack, quite the contrary.
> 
> When alone, he chases tennis balls as if his life depends on it. He is at this point, already physically capable of running just as fast as Jack, I've seen him do it. It was just weird and very unexpected.


He's still a pup, and he's at an age where they go through some weird stuff. Give him a chance. He has a long way to go before he becomes the dog he's meant to be.

Let me tell you a story.

I started Duster's agility training when he was about the same age Max is now - 7 months or so. If you'd asked me during the months that followed, I'd have told you I didn't think he'd ever be an agility dog. Things weren't coming together. Then our trainer said something very interesting to me, and I'm going to pass it on to you, because it was a single comment that made all the difference.

Train the dog you have, not the dog you used to have.

Consciously or not, I was training Duster as though he was Ruby, and expecting him to develop in the same way. He didn't, of course. I was disappointed and he felt that. We were in a kind of vicious circle. My trainer's comment made me realize that Ruby and Duster are two very different dogs - about as different as it's possible to be. On the "crazy bulldozer" scale, Ruby was about a 9 and Duster is a 3. Ruby's attitude to life was "act first-think later". Duster's is "think first-act later". So I completely changed my approach to training. I watched him carefully to see how he learned, then focused more on confidence-building and partnership-building activities. We did rally-obedience to build our partnership and learn to work together. In agility, I started teaching him one obstacle at once, giving him time to get used to it and learn how it worked before putting it in a sequence. I did drills (something I had never done before), so he got the chance to do specific movements over and over again. The difference was incredible. Duster absolutely flourished. His confidence grew. He started liking the sport. His drive started to come out. If I hadn't made that switch in my own attitude and approach, I don't think he would have become the dog he now is. It was a lesson in humility for me.

To cut a long story short: My soft and gentle dog has become an agility dream machine. He loves the sport. He's not the crazy, "let me get 'em" dog I used to have, but he's an equally phenomenal partner. His first agility trial ever was at the end of June. He'd never been in the ring before then. It just happened that the trial was the Quebec provincial agility championships, held in our home town and organized by our club. I entered him for the experience. No stress, no expectations. And you know what? If I hadn't tripped and fallen in one of the events, pushing him off-course and getting 25 penalty points, we'd have won. As it was, we finished second in our class (20 points behind the winner) and we beat last year's winner (and 15 other experienced dogs) in the process. Our final score of 505 points is 100 points more than Ruby and I got at our first provincial championships, when she was almost a year older than Duster. Duster was amazing: solid, focused, confident and accurate. We've done two other one-day trials since then, and he hasn't put a foot wrong. He's building speed. Give us a year, and nobody will be able to touch us.

So I'm passing that very important comment on to you: train the dog you have, not the dog you used to have.

Best of luck!


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## Nate83

What made you pick the most dominant pup? Wouldn't that make him harder to train? Most people him for the exact opposite of what you picked I think that is interesting.


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## alphadude

Nate83 said:


> What made you pick the most dominant pup? Wouldn't that make him harder to train? Most people him for the exact opposite of what you picked I think that is interesting.


I specifically picked the most dominant field pup because although they are harder to train, I was looking to replicate as many of Ax's distinguishing characteristics as possible. Not looking to replace Ax - that is unfortunately not possible, but to have the best possibility of similar abilities and qualities.


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## Nate83

interesting


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## alphadude

*Disc dog under construction*

More than a year since I threw a disc to a field golden on Crescent Beach just before sunset on a warm summer evening...


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## Pilgrim123

He's got the idea! Yay, Max!


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## Wendy427

Yay Max is right!


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## alphadude

ceegee said:


> So I'm passing that very important comment on to you: train the dog you have, not the dog you used to have.
> 
> Best of luck!


Very good advice. I finally decided to train Max, who wasn't apparently born just knowing how to be a disc dog like Ax.

Max grasped the fact that I wanted him to catch the disc when I tossed it to him immediately, he just didn't understand that I wanted him to pursue it in the air when it passed him and then catch it. I KNOW he could sense my frustration.

I decided to get a bit creative and think out of the box. I didn't find this in any 'disc dog how to' videos on YT, but I constructed what I later found out was called a 'flirt pole' consisting of an aluminum pole, a piece of sturdy twine and a disc. I would then hold the disc above him and run away causing him to chase, leap up and grab the disc in the air. That's REALLY all it took to make the connection in his head. So simple. 

Now that he's got the idea, we'll go every day and PRACTICE. It will be a welcome addition to my daily routine, one that has been missing for a year plus. I'll start stretching him out distance wise and it'll feel great to start ripping discs again on a daily basis. Max is going to get in some good cardio shape now. lol

Words cannot adequately convey how much I missed throwing discs to my dog every day on the beach at sunset. I can also now say I HAVE a disc dog as opposed to i HAD one.


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## jennretz

Nice to see such a good update on Max 


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## mylissyk

That's just beautiful.


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## hahuston

Oh holy cuteness Batman! He's adorable! 

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## alphadude

*Sibling Rivalry*

Jack, apparently not to be outdone by his 'little brother' decided to be cooperative all of a sudden. Perhaps he realized he'd get MORE beach time if he got with the program. I tossed him a short warm-up cookie using the "Axl protocol" and then started working him in the 30-40 yard range. He missed as many as he caught and I still can't get him to reliably bring them back to me but once again, I'll take it.


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## jennretz

Jax is so fun! He was having a blast 


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> Jax is so fun! He was having a blast
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He's a goofball, but he has a ton of potential if I can just get him to focus. That's the tough part for me to get my head around. Ax couldn't give a crap WHAT was going on around us, his focus was laserlike on me and those discs.


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## jennretz

Sounds like another training challenge....trying to figure out what motivates him. And possibly breaking it down into smaller steps (like focusing on just the bringing back piece). Let him master each step and build his confidence


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> Sounds like another training challenge....trying to figure out what motivates him. And possibly breaking it down into smaller steps (like focusing on just the bringing back piece). Let him master each step and build his confidence


Makes a lot of sense Jen. Going to be a slow process I guess. It's like working with ordinary pupils after a prodigy. Need to re-calibrate my expectations apparently.


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## alphadude

Max is in really REALLY BIG TROUBLE!!! Today, he did something even Axl never did. Took my eye off him for 2 minutes when he was in the pool and he decided to rip a softball sized jagged hole in the liner!! The cost for that will be at minimum $1000 factoring in the liner and the cost of 15,000 gallons of water not to mention a weekends worth of work. I am EXTREMELY angry!!! I am seriously considering ripping the pool down entirely. I put a temporary patch on it that will hopefully get us through the rest of the season but it will NEVER make it through the winter and freeze / thaw cycles.


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## hahuston

alphadude said:


> Max is in really REALLY BIG TROUBLE!!! Today, he did something even Axl never did. Took my eye off him for 2 minutes when he was in the pool and he decided to rip a softball sized jagged hole in the liner!! The cost for that will be at minimum $1000 factoring in the liner and the cost of 15,000 gallons of water not to mention a weekends worth of work. I am EXTREMELY angry!!! I am seriously considering ripping the pool down entirely. I put a temporary patch on it that will hopefully get us through the rest of the season but it will NEVER make it through the winter and freeze / thaw cycles.


Ouch! That's an expensive chew toy.  I'm so sorry.

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## GoldensOldie

So, he went to the bottom of the pool to do his handy work? And accomplished it underwater? Impressive. Expensive, yes.... but it looks like you have one adventurous, determined pup on your hands. Congratulations. :wink2:


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## alphadude

GoldensOldie said:


> So, he went to the bottom of the pool to do his handy work? And accomplished it underwater? Impressive. Expensive, yes.... but it looks like you have one adventurous, determined pup on your hands. Congratulations. :wink2:


No actually it's at the top, right at the waterline. Not sure why this site seems to have flipped the pic over after uploading. That said, it was a rather *ordinary* act of sheer stupidity. I actually would have still been mad, but also quite impressed if he did it under water...which brings me to my next point.

I spent a lot of time this weekend on the beach with all three knuckleheads. Discounting Puffy who is basically half a cripple, if you somehow combined the energy of Max and Jack (9+ months and just over 2 years old respectively), you'd still only end up with a fraction of the energy Ax possessed going on 9 years old. Even my wife commented similarly today. 

We had Jack at the beach for about a half hour, and he was completely GASSED after a two 50 yard swims, several half-hearted short range disc attempts, and 10 or 15 tennis ball retrievals on the beach. For Ax, that literally would have been a warm up and he'd have been raring to go *full out for at least another hour...probably more* before he showed *any* signs of tiring. Theoretically, Jack should be nearing the peak of his physicality @ 27 months old. He is not overweight, gets whatever exercise he can tolerate daily and he still lacks stamina. It was not a case of him not wanting to continue, he was just done, physically. Believe me, I CAN tell the difference. BTW it was 72 degrees, almost no humidity and overall perfect weather.

Max has more energy than Jack, but still nothing close to Ax at any age. Maybe he really *was* just a freak of nature like I always used to say half kiddingly.


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## GoldensOldie

Oh. I am so sorry, you seem to be terribly disappointed in your dogs. 

Since, it seems, no dog can live up to your previous perfect dog, Ax, perhaps you should consider rehoming them to an environment more suited to them and find yourself a pastime that doesn't remind you of your loss.

More than a year ago, I lost my beloved dog, Ty. We were one... read each other's faces, body language, moods. He was my heart. It broke my heart when he died.... I cried for a year. I still do.

Five weeks ago, I brought a new little guy home. He will never be Ty, but he will be fantastic, because I will allow him to be his own wonderful dog. I do compare, but there is no competition, because they are not the same. 

Dax is brilliant and a handful and I love him. What I have learned from loving Ty, I will use with training Dax. 

Try to go forward using your love of Ax to encourage your dogs to be the best *they* can be, not trying to be what Ax was.

There is always only one of a kind, in anything, because otherwise it would be normal. You can help these guys be their own one of a kind. Or, you can keep trying to make them your dream. I would recommend loving what they are and enjoying what they have to offer you. It might be a different course, but could be just as wonderful.


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## alphadude

GoldensOldie said:


> Oh. I am so sorry, you seem to be terribly disappointed in your dogs.
> 
> Since, it seems, no dog can live up to your previous perfect dog, Ax, perhaps you should consider rehoming them to an environment more suited to them and find yourself a pastime that doesn't remind you of your loss.
> 
> More than a year ago, I lost my beloved dog, Ty. We were one... read each other's faces, body language, moods. He was my heart. It broke my heart when he died.... I cried for a year. I still do.
> 
> Five weeks ago, I brought a new little guy home. He will never be Ty, but he will be fantastic, because I will allow him to be his own wonderful dog. I do compare, but there is no competition, because they are not the same.
> 
> Dax is brilliant and a handful and I love him. What I have learned from loving Ty, I will use with training Dax.
> 
> Try to go forward using your love of Ax to encourage your dogs to be the best *they* can be, not trying to be what Ax was.
> 
> There is always only one of a kind, in anything, because otherwise it would be normal. You can help these guys be their own one of a kind. Or, you can keep trying to make them your dream. I would recommend loving what they are and enjoying what they have to offer you. It might be a different course, but could be just as wonderful.


Would not consider re-homing them although I probably would have been on board with that idea yesterday after Max ripped the pool liner. Just Kidding!

Seriously though, it would be absurd to have an expectation that either of them, or any dog for that matter could replace Ax or the relationship I had with him. Much like your experience, he and I could communicate using eye movements, facial expressions, gestures. Communication on that level didn't happen overnight. He and I got off to a very rocky start truth be told. 

Jack is 27 months old, healthy as a horse, appears extremely fit and is seemingly very athletic. I have seen him jump vertically 4 or more feet in the air and he can really run as well.

Max comes from many generations of titled high energy hunt / field dogs and was chosen (by the breeder) as the most energetic male out of 2 litters.

I was just expecting more raw energy from both of them.


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## sophieanne

You really should stop trying to compare your dogs to Ax. It's hard to read and hard on Jack and Max. I know..don't read this thread then, but I love watching how the 3 dogs interact and grow. It's just heart breaking to read how they're not at the Ax level. So what? Each of them is going to have a trait that is unique to them and endears them to you. Time to focus on the new relationships and the fun and challenges of raising them. Ax is Ax, Jack is Jack, Max is Max and Puffy is Puffy
It's like children, accept each one for the wonderful child they are. Comparing them once in a while is understandable, doing it all the time is unfair. They deserve to be allowed to be accepted for who they are, not compared to who they aren't.


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## jennretz

AD - I know you're grieving Ax and that you're coming up against a major milestone. I believe you love these dogs in their own right. I would just very gently say that be gentle with them and yourself. It may not be the same as what you had with Ax (and he was truly your heart dog), but each of these dogs do have wonderful personalities. If you can just appreciate them for who they are you may be surprised.

Sending you a hug and your whole crew. You have a lot of people on this forum who grieved with you when you lost Ax. Now we just want you to understand it's not disloyal to Ax to allow yourself to enjoy your other three fur family members.

I hope you understand this post is coming from a caring perspective - not judging you. I understand how much Ax meant to you.


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## murphy1

Let's all give AD a break here, he understands what is being said. I've found the one year mark puts things into place, it's never ever easy. We all know he loves his news boys, but we all have that one special dog.


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## GoldensOldie

alphadude said:


> I was just expecting more raw energy from both of them.


Perhaps their raw energy will show up in a different venue. They might excel at agility or nose work or obedience or dock diving or hunting trials. It could be time to expand your horizons and discover new adventures with your buddies. One of the great pleasures of these pups is their ability to push us outside the box. 

Explore and enjoy.


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## alphadude

Just discovered last night that Max apparently* HATES* bubbles!

It was cracking me up the way he curls his lip back before he launches into his attack. Reminded me of a video I saw of a Honey Badger.


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## jennretz

That was fun to watch


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## alphadude

Having a REALLY bad time with Max the last day plus. 

Was laying on the bed with Puffy and Max last night, just chilling, right before bed time. Jack was out in the living room hanging out with my daughter. My wife had commented about 15 minutes prior, how calm and peaceful these two were with Jack elsewhere for a change. All of a sudden max stands up and starts growling softly and I didn't think much of it figuring he might have heard something outside on the deck outside the sliding glass doors. With no warning, he launched an incredibly viscous attack on poor Puffy who was just laying there minding his own business doing nothing to provoke Max. Puffy, of course viciously fought back. Because I was laying a foot away, I immediately grabbed each by the collar, (collecting a bloody puncture on the arm in the process, not sure which one even got me - Puffy got a matching bloody puncture above his eye) separated them, and restrained each until Max could be removed from the room. As soon as he was let back into the room an hour later, Max immediately launched another equally viscous attack on Puffy. Max was then 'escorted' (not very gently) to another room by my younger daughter who has more than a little of her father in her apparently. 

Anyway, all seemed back to normal today and things were calm. No signs of any aggression. I guess things were fine all day and when I got home from work everything was normal. I took Puffy to the beach for some exercise and we came home. I was just sitting in the yard with the 3 dogs listening to the Yankee game on the radio and a friend of mine stopped by and came in through the gate. All 3 dogs went over to greet him and started to get riled up and sure enough, boom Max went berserk on Puffy again a foot away from my friend's legs. He's a dog person so he didn't freak out or anything. I was on it immediately once again, and once again was bitten on the thumb and middle finger - both wounds bleeding. 

I am really kind of at a loss what to do about this and why it is happening all of a sudden. I am wondering whether it is because Max is now 10.5 months old and both he and Puffy are intact males. Puffy seems to have no problem with him.

Raging hormones perhaps? 

The good news is that Max seems to demonstrate no aggression toward people, but I can't let this behavior continue and allow him to keep viciously attacking poor, half crippled Puffy. The obvious answer is to keep them separated all them time but that is not really a workable solution long term especially with 3 dogs.

I have plenty of experience dealing with wild, aggressive young dogs after Axl's adolescence, but he was aggressive toward people, (very rough *play* aggressive, trying to dominate) but not flat out savage attacks like Max. When Ax attacked another dog, he had good reason to do so - even as a puppy. 

In the 4 years plus that Ax and Puffy lived together here, Ax *NEVER* attacked Puffy viciously like that, and they play fought every single day, typically multiple times per day which easily could have gotten out of hand - but it never did. Ax would beat the crap out of him, but gently, playfully, and he would not draw blood or sustain the attack after Puffy was subdued.

I'm in uncharted territory here.


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## jennretz

Not sure what’s going on but perhaps the breeder you got Max from might have some ideas. Is Puffy sick? I don’t know if it’s true or not but read somewhere a sick dog might get attacked. Or maybe it’s because Max’s hormones are raging....not sure if neutering Max would solve the problem. Didn’t think you want to neuter him though.


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## alphadude

jennretz said:


> Not sure what’s going on but perhaps the breeder you got Max from might have some ideas. Is Puffy sick? I don’t know if it’s true or not but read somewhere a sick dog might get attacked. Or maybe it’s because Max’s hormones are raging....not sure if neutering Max would solve the problem. Didn’t think you want to neuter him though.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks Jen, I have heard that too about sick dogs being attacked. As far as I can tell, Puffy is in good health, and he was just at the vet a week ago, which of course I know doesn't mean very much but he did have blood work done showing no apparent problems.

I just emailed his breeder, Hopefully, I'll have an answer tomorrow.

I am really resistant to getting him neutered because I feel it adversely affects the immune system which is the first best line of defense against horrible things like cancers etc. I have read multiple studies that back this up.


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## murphy1

My heart breaks for poor Puffy, I say neuter Max. I know many dogs, including some of my own, that have lived long healthy lives after saying goodbye to the boys.


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## CashStringer

Both of our boys became aggressive around other intact males around 10 months. When Cash was neutered at around 16 months (we would have preferred to wait but decided to do it at the same time as an abdominal surgery), that went away almost immediately. Colt is currently 19 months old and we are counting down the days until his 2 year old birthday to get him neutered. We don't go to dog parks but if we are out with them and an intact male is anywhere nearby, Colt immediately posts up and begins an almost primal growl. And Colt is the biggest, goofiest, sweetest, submissive dog you can every imagine. I think there is something to be said for these raging hormones .... 

Good luck with your pack!! SO enjoy all of your stories!


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## alphadude

CashStringer said:


> Both of our boys became aggressive around other intact males around 10 months. When Cash was neutered at around 16 months (we would have preferred to wait but decided to do it at the same time as an abdominal surgery), that went away almost immediately. Colt is currently 19 months old and we are counting down the days until his 2 year old birthday to get him neutered. We don't go to dog parks but if we are out with them and an intact male is anywhere nearby, Colt immediately posts up and begins an almost primal growl. And Colt is the biggest, goofiest, sweetest, submissive dog you can every imagine. I think there is something to be said for these raging hormones ....
> 
> Good luck with your pack!! SO enjoy all of your stories!


Thanks for the reply CS! I am currently seriously rethinking the whole neutering issue. I know it is better to wait as long as possible - 2 years being the best case scenario. I can definitely understand the whole intact male aggression thing with strange dogs, but Puffy?? He and Max have had an almost father son relationship. While Max would fight and act aggressive at times with 2 year old Jack (neutered) like an older brother, he was always calm and respectful with Puffy. I guess his hormones are raging and he is feeling his oats. Poor puffy is no threat and can't compete in any real way with either of the younger dogs. 

Perhaps I never went through this with Ax because he was neutered @ 8 or 9 months, as well as being an "only dog" at the time.


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## alphadude

I decided I would apply the same methodology to try and fix Max's behavioral issues that worked with Ax ... massive amounts of exercise and tiring him to the point of near exhaustion. Yesterday and today, I took him alone to the beach for a 2 hour session and ran his backside off. In addition to that, I have been supervising him very closely when he is near Puffy. So far, so good. I nipped a probable attack in the bud yesterday evening without any violence occurring or bleeding myself. I guess I just needed to re-hone my canine posture interpretation skills which have been largely unused since Ax has been gone.

It feels OK if a bit surreal, to start getting back into the routine of heading to the beach near sundown to rip some discs to my golden retriever. Starting to make some progress with him.


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## Anele

Love the video and pics. This is not an easy issue to have, and I am sorry you are going through it. But you have worked wonders with Axl! I may have missed it, but have you had his thyroid tested?


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## alphadude

There have been no new incidences of Max attacking Puffy since the original three. 

Perhaps my exercise strategy is working. 

I did hear back from the breeder whose advice was well, something I am not going to repeat in a public forum, and I will *NOT* be employing. If anyone is really that interested PM me and I'll tell you what he said.

I think it's just a case of an intact male puppy coming of age at almost 11 months old, with raging hormones, and 2 submissive older "brothers". 

Upon further reflection, I am pretty sure Ax would have been many orders of magnitude worse if he had been raised with 2 submissive brothers like Max has instead of alone when he was 'coming of age'.


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## murphy1

I cannot imagine what the breeder suggested. I don't want to know but I still say Max can live without his boys!


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## Nate83

Ya Murphy you don't want to know. AD has a good method with the exercising.


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## ceegee

alphadude said:


> There have been no new incidences of Max attacking Puffy since the original three.
> 
> Perhaps my exercise strategy is working.
> 
> I did hear back from the breeder whose advice was well, something I am not going to repeat in a public forum, and I will *NOT* be employing. If anyone is really that interested PM me and I'll tell you what he said.
> 
> I think it's just a case of an intact male puppy coming of age at almost 11 months old, with raging hormones, and 2 submissive older "brothers".
> 
> Upon further reflection, I am pretty sure Ax would have been many orders of magnitude worse if he had been raised with 2 submissive brothers like Max has instead of alone when he was 'coming of age'.


I'm glad things have settled down!


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## Anele

Wonderful news. You know what you are doing... you had the best teacher in Ax!


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## alphadude

*Max and I had a BLAST at "Sunset Beach" tonight*

Haven't posted a status in a while. Had some tragedy in my personal life recently, my best (human) friend was shot and killed in Vegas. I needed to fly out there, attend his funeral and say my proper goodbyes. It's been a rough year plus for best friends around here unfortunately.

That said, I was needing some positive vibes and Max really stepped up to the plate. He's a little under two weeks shy of his first birthday on 11/7 and he's starting to mature somewhat. Over the last month, he has put on 6 lbs, hopefully most of it muscle. He now weighs in at 68.5 lbs and is a touch over 23" tall at the withers. He still looks kind of "shrimpy" to me compared to the other 2 stooges, but he's slightly taller than Puffy now. He just looks smaller because he's probably 25 lbs lighter and doesn't have the same MASSIVE bone structure.

Anyway, I took him to Crescent (Sunset) Beach tonight at 5 PM and we were there until the sun was almost completely down at 6:30. He had great stamina, and *excellent* focus. Apparently, he has finally decided he loves doing the disc thing, and he's getting much better. Tonight I noticed that he is going much harder after them and tracking them WAY better. He even made a catch while diving into the bay. He caught a few tonight ripped between 40 and 50 yards, thrown WITH the wind which I didn't get video of since it took me by surprise. The BEST part is that he brings them BACK unlike Jack who can't seem to comprehend that concept. It must be a retriever thing. Brought him home, hosed him off thoroughly and still didn't get all the sand off of him since he LOVES to roll in it when he is soaking wet. He had his dinner and is now laying next to me snoozing as I type this.

It's been a *really* long time since I had an evening that good, on that beach, ripping discs to my golden, while the sun slowly sank behind the horizon...and I really needed it.


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## jennretz

Sorry about the loss of your friend.

Glad that you had a nice evening with Max at the beach...


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## LynnC

Good boy Max . I'm sure the sunset was beautiful there, it was gorgeous here on LBI. So sorry about your friend. Each day is a gift.


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## murphy1

So sorry for your loss. Loosing your best friend in such a terrible way is heartbreaking. Glad your boy came through to help out.


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## cwag

I am so sorry for the senseless loss of your friend. The companionship of a dog is so comforting. I'm glad he's excelling in something you enjoy doing together.


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## Rundlemtn

So sorry for your loss. 

Max is really coming into his own! Love the video!!


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## alphadude

Got some drone video of Max at the beach this evening. Starting to become a routine again. We go mostly every night now but unfortunately, eastern daylight time goes into effect tonight so it's going to cut down on the length of our nightly sessions. 

I did do something I haven't done in a very long time earlier though...put in an order with Hero for a dozen new discs...

3 days shy of his first birthday, I feel like I am really making progress molding Max into a disc dog. He's already better at tracking them and far more focused than Jack. He has better eye mouth coordination, and much more stamina. Best of all, he brings them back to me. He's learning to take better more efficient routes and he even made a 'shoestring' catch.






In the video below shot Friday night, several things of note. Max has mastered the art of leaping and catching the disc and making a water landing. Jack will always stop when the disc veers close to the water's edge.

Max is also displaying an eerily similar hunched over "stalking" behavior that Ax was famous for when approaching me before I toss the disc...


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## Macca

Max looks like he's really into it and enjoying it! Good for him, and it must be good for you. Sorry to hear of the loss of your friend, sometimes life just ain't fair. It's good to have canine friends at those times.


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## Wendy427

Max is doing great! So focused!


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## KKaren

These are great videos, Max does look like he is having a blast. I'm so impressed with his progress. It's a beautiful beach... 

I am so very sorry for the loss of your friend.


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## jennretz

Glad you and Max are enjoying things together...


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## alphadude

Was able to sneak in a quick half hour of disc work with Max tonight @ the beach and was treated to a banging sunset.


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## jennretz

Great pictures 


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## alphadude

*Thanksgiving @ the Pond with Max*

Took Max to the Pond on a beautiful Thanksgiving afternoon today. It ended up being somewhat of a marathon and we were there for almost 3 hours. 

I was really impressed with his stamina today as well as his focus and enthusiasm. He is really starting to make strides toward becoming a pretty good disc dog.

We notched a couple of firsts today. I started him out on the beach throwing the discs with the light breeze at our backs. This has two primary effects: 

1 - the discs do not stay aloft as long as when throwing into the wind so he has to really hustle to get under them before they land.

2 - the discs obviously travel a bit farther (and faster) and I try to throw them on a flatter trajectory.

He did better than I expected and was catching them at well over a 50% rate. He also caught a few fairly long rips today that I estimate were in the 50 yard range. I didn't have the LRF with me to verify, but they were definitely up around 150 feet.

The second major step we took was working him out on the *big field*. The park was surprisingly deserted today and I decided to chance unleashing him there even though his recall is not at this point 100% reliable. He did really well and I had no trouble keeping him focused. 

It felt a bit surreal ripping discs to a golden on that field again, but it was quite enjoyable to say the least even if at the same time bittersweet.


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## jennretz

Happy Thanksgiving 


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## LynnC

So nice to hear. Sounds like you had a nice Thanksgiving


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## alphadude

Took all three stooges on 2 mile hike this afternoon in a beautiful state park overlooking the Raritan Bay.

Then, just before sunset, I took Max to Crescent (Sunset) Beach for his disc workout. Tonight, he was not good, he was GREAT. He caught a bunch of 50 yarders and some even a bit longer. I worked him HARD for about an hour and then we just hung out and watched the light fade from the sky.

He is starting to freak me out a little bit the way he has all of a sudden decided that he LIVES for catching discs. He has also recently started several more behaviors that Ax was famous for. Tonight after his workout, he hopped up on the cement thing that serves as our base of operations at that beach, stood next to where I was sitting and leaned against me. We hung out like that and watched the sun sink for several minutes and then he got bored apparently, hopped down and furiously started digging holes and dropping a tennis ball into them. Strange, it's almost like he's channeling Ax...

No video tonight but I snapped a few pics

First one is of the 3 boys with my wife and daughter at the park this afternoon. That spot is almost 100' above the bay and the view is beautiful!

Second, Max is peeking at me from the opposite side of the cement thing.

Third, Max digging his holes.

Fourth, the obligatory sunset shot.

Last, Max is out light a light on the bed. He is sleeping so soundly, I had to check if he was breathing!

Addendum: Max rolled over onto his back - too cute to not include!


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## jennretz

Sounds like a good day! Love the pictures


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## Jessie'sGirl

Great pics. Maxx is turning into a handsome boy, and starting to show his athletic talents.


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## Helo's Mom

Great pics. Max looks like a very happy dog.


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## Macca

Wonderful photos, am glad you're having great disc sessions with handsome Max. It sounds like Ax's spirit is alive and well in Max!


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## Tiny R Astar

Max looks to be having a fantastic time. Glad he is doing so well. X


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## alphadude

Exactly 1 year ago tonight after a 900 mile round trip drive.


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## jennretz

Happy Gotcha Day Max 


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## LynnC

I know it goes by so quick. Happy Gotcha Day Max


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## Cody'sMom

Wow, a year already. Hard to believe!

Happy Homecoming/Gotcha Day, Max. You look crazy cute in the Christmas stocking. You're still crazy cute! :laugh:

Connie and Hudson :wavey:


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## Macca

And what a year it has been for you. He's no longer that docile little puppy in the stocking! I hope he's entertaining you this Christmas season and that he was good enough for Santa to leave a few treats.


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## alphadude

Max (Mr. Mayhem) 1 year later...


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## Nate83

He is very nice looking.


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## jennretz

He’s really a good looking dog. I like “mayhem “


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## Jessie'sGirl

What a handsome boy. And look at those paws. He's not finished growing..


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## alphadude

Jessie'sGirl said:


> What a handsome boy. And look at those paws. He's not finished growing..


I really hope you are right. I consider him to be a twerp, barely 23" tall and 68 lbs @ 14 months old. Was really hoping he'd be a bit bigger. His body is also very short from shoulders to rump, both Jack and Puffy are easily 6" or more longer than Max is. I know he's a field retriever and they trend toward the lower end of the breed standard, but he *just looks small to me*, at times almost like a "miniature" golden.


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## Cody'sMom

Max is super cool and the presents under the tree are still intact so he must be improving on his training. :wink2:

Here's to a great 2018!

Connie and Hudson :wavey:


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## cwag

alphadude said:


> I really hope you are right. I consider him to be a twerp, barely 23" tall and 68 lbs @ 14 months old. Was really hoping he'd be a bit bigger. His body is also very short from shoulders to rump, both Jack and Puffy are easily 6" or more longer than Max is. I know he's a field retriever and they trend toward the lower end of the breed standard, but he *just looks small to me*, at times almost like a "miniature" golden.


Maybe that smaller size will help him fly!


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## alphadude

Couple of shots of Max rocking his newly earned dew rag in the setting sun.


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## alphadude

A quick vid of Max catching a disc on his second birthday (1 day late actually) against the backdrop of the setting sun...


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## LynnC

Awwww... Happy 2nd Birthday Max! Nice catch too


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## cwag

Nice job Max. Happy birthday. You have a good life going there on the beach.


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## Daghiedr

He looks like a great pup. congratulations!


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## murphy1

He would make Ax proud!!!


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## Jessie'sGirl

I can't believe he's two ! Seems like you just brought him home. He's turned into a good disc dog. You must be proud.


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