# Growling at kids



## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Your boy has been through a lot and may have a little PTSD from the last situation. You will never know what life was like (rescues never tell the whole truth because they probably don't know it)
Most new pups, rescue or purchase need time to adapt and learn trust. Give this guy some space  NEVER reach for a collar. I realize from your son's perspective he was helping. Try and view it from the dogs POV. Grabbing the collar could have a world of really bad memories attached.

It always helps to take a newbie through a basic obedience class, sort of helps with a "reset" for the dog and also teaches your family to read this boys body language. Set him up a corner somewhere with a bed, maybe where he has his meals... someplace he can go to remove himself if needed. Let him come to you as his comfort level improves.

It's hard to know without actually being there but having done foster for years there is a pattern of history for so many dogs. Have your boys continue to give him his space. Go about your routine and give him time to fit himself into your family. A few months from now, after some training classes if there is still growling issue you may have to rearrange your life a little. I hope this helps!


----------



## Lincgold (May 11, 2018)

I’m so sorry for your troubles. I’m at a loss for words. I’ve had 6 Goldens over the years, three male and never had this problem. I can only think that something must have happened while he was with his first owners. Sometimes kids, in their enthusiasm to play, can be too rough with a puppy and that’s why he doesn’t trust smaller kids. I agree with Puddles Everywhere. Some basic training, hopefully will help. His going into his crate to get away tells you he’s not comfortable with a situation. I hope time heals all wounds. Good luck and please keep us updated.


----------



## gdgli (Aug 24, 2011)

Sorry your having this problem but it is a serious one. I have to ask if you have made any observations on his body language. I have found that most people are weak on this. Body language would help to assess the situation. Find out what triggers the growls, may be more than one trigger. 

For the record, the kids probably should not hug this dog. The dog should be conditioned for a collar grab if that is what will be done. Kids shouldn't run, Goldens are hunting dogs and will chase and possibly grab both for prey and play.


Your dog sounds like he needs to be conditioned for the car ride, waiting line, and pickup. To be truthful your dog needs work and the kids must realize that this dog is different. Obedience class is a good start. 



Don't give up! Just be consistent with training. Good book: HELP FOR YOUR FEARFUL DOG.


----------



## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

I've rescued several dogs and fostered. It sounds like you've been doing things pretty well and it's good that you're recognizing the growl is a communication vehicle; that he is letting you know he's uncomfortable. It's very important to respect the growl and not punish it. It's his only way of letting you know something is scaring him. Taking trust builds time.

I had one dog that I had to rehome due to resource guarding and attacking my other two. I kept trying to understand "why" she was that way - what had happened to her to cause her to behave that way. At the end of the day, a trainer told me, it's more important to take a step back. The A,B,C's of what is leading to the behavior. In other words, what circumstances lead up to the response? i.e., kids are wrestling, dog growls and then what happens. The goal is to create a safe environment for all. Kids will wrestle and run around. Can you set parameters up to be successful? Let the kids outside and keep him inside? He's happy, they're happy. Or use gates in the house where they can play and he can feel safe.

With the collar grab, important to respect that for whatever reason it doesn't work for him. So practice targeting and luring with treats. You can move a dog without ever touching them. My one rescue is sensitive to his collar getting grabbed. You start with teaching them touch, then target, then lure. You can use a clicker or just a word marker. There're lots of examples on youtube. Many zoos use this to administer medicines, do physical exams, etc to all of the animals (including lions, etc).

ETA - creating a safe zone for him to retreat to is an excellent idea. If he's comfortable retreating to his crate let him. And tell everyone to respect that space. Do not force him out of there and do not bother him when he's in there.


----------



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

dogmommax3 said:


> ...I just took him with me yesterday to ride along to pick our boys up from school and he did nothing but growl through the drive thru line for pick up. I didn't want to scold him for growling because I'm assuming he was uncomfortable but when I went through the middle school line, he did ok.* It seems to be with smaller kids. Even when my nieces and nephews come over (as well as males) he growls, and will sometimes go lay in his crate.* My biggest question is, where do I start? He is going to get neutered next week, but I'm not counting on that as a fix. As its getting warmer and kids are running and playing, I'm starting to get nervous that boundaries might be pushed and him biting. The way he lays on them and his tail wags as they play fetch, that's normal behavior that I'm used to but this growling thing has me nervous.


I personally would not keep this dog without professional help. Period. He is an accident waiting to happen. When you have children in the home it makes it a whole different situation.

You are telling us he is uncomfortable/anxious/fearful around your nieces, nephews and strange male adults. To the point of escaping to his crate. He should ALWAYS be crated when you have visiting children in the home until you have gotten to the bottom of this with a professional. This means ANY children whether they are relations or friends of your kids. You need to have a very serious talk with your children and I would not have the dog out unsupervised with your own kids at this point.

You are telling us that the dog is either anxious/fearful or protective of the car and growling at people in car line. This on it's own might not be a huge deal, but when taken into account with the other behaviors, it is part of the puzzle here that is a problem.

Your description of the dog growling over the collar grab or a bit of a push (for the record, I do not think that your sons are too rough with your dog, but you will need to constantly remind them about not putting hands on him and respecting his space.)is certainly a huge red flag that this dog has fear/anxiety. I encourage you to learn as much as you can about canine body language and really observe your dog. Turid Rugaas has a book that is a good place to start. You can also find videos and articles on line.

https://www.amazon.com/Talking-Term...d=1552075377&s=gateway&sr=8-1&tag=googhydr-20

Your instinct to limit running and rough housing to avoid amping the dog up is wise, just to keep him under control. I know (I have 3 kids) that is not always easy to do. I would not have the kids playing with him outdoors unsupervised for the same reasons. It is too easy for the dog too hurt one of them accidentally because he is over=excited but if you aren't there, you wouldn't be able to be 100% certain. And again,I would not have him playing with visiting kids until you have worked through this and have confidence that this is behind you.

Please consult a trainer who specializes in behavior, someone who has experience in both training and behavior. Neutering is definitely not something that will fix behavioral problems and there are some studies showing that it can have the opposite results. 

https://www.dacvb.org/search/custom.asp?id=4709 Here is a good place to start searching for someone who is qualified to help you.


----------



## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

In case you were interested in the affects of neutering on behavior discussion, here is a good article :

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...utering-causes-behavior-problems-in-male-dogs


----------



## scully91 (Sep 4, 2018)

I'm so sorry you're experiencing this. I'm sure you're doing research so I'll add a Facebook page that is hopefully of value to you. "Dogs and Kids: Safer Together." They have fantastic resources and articles for families and parents and videos etc teaching dog body language as what's "comfortable" for a dog is generally completely different than a child. Like a hug. Dogs generally are very uncomfortable with hugs. (Generally!) I attached a great infographic they recently posted. All about creating safe zones with dogs and kids  Hope this is a helpful post in the immediate as you work on a long-term solution. Poor guy


----------



## jennretz (Jul 24, 2013)

scully91 said:


> I'm so sorry you're experiencing this. I'm sure you're doing research so I'll add a Facebook page that is hopefully of value to you. "Dogs and Kids: Safer Together." They have fantastic resources and articles for families and parents and videos etc teaching dog body language as what's "comfortable" for a dog is generally completely different than a child. Like a hug. Dogs generally are very uncomfortable with hugs. (Generally!) I attached a great infographic they recently posted. All about creating safe zones with dogs and kids  Hope this is a helpful post in the immediate as you work on a long-term solution. Poor guy


That zoning chart is great! Thank you for sharing. It's helpful for those of us who integrate new dogs into our homes as well with resident dogs.


----------



## scully91 (Sep 4, 2018)

Yeah! I'm generally very wary of Facebook pages because anyone can claim anything but they actually link responsible and reliable information. Some of their posts are tough to read but I think they do a good job of educating people who may love dogs but don't yet have the knowledge to balance that love with keeping the dog's emotional state healthy. I am always learning from that site myself and I've had dogs my whole life. We owe it to our best friends to read their body language. Love when people are intentional about creating safe spaces for their kids and dogs to thrive.


----------

