# A fetching problem



## Lucas (Jun 15, 2010)

I am having almost no success in training my 2 year old Golden to fetch.
He can do many other basic actions with no problem, (sit, come, lie down etc.) but fetch is beyond him.
He chases balls when they are thrown for him but then refuses to return them to me.
I began using the two ball technique (where you have two identical throw toys) but he still did not bring them back to me.
I have tried using treats but then he doesn't chase the ball, but rather he sits waiting for the treat even after I roll him the ball to his feet.
:doh:
Any other suggestions?


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

This is a step by step process that can be found in many books, but generally

1) Release (you teach the OUT or GIVE) by having him 'hold' your gloved hand with light pressure, wiggle your fingers as you say 'Out' ad let his head back up as he releases your hand - you may have an argument and squirmining during the first few times but softly massage the back of his head and neck to calm him

2) Hold - put an object in his mouth and have him hold it until you cue release, a second or 2 moving up to longer times. Then introduce him holding it while moving - at first take a step backward holding your hand under his jaw and have him come in to you gradually moving further away

3) Take It - now he needs to start getting the object. An inch, then two, then 4 etc. Then move the object up, then down. Place on a chair with one hand lightly touching, then 1 finger, then slightly lift one end etc. Then move to the ground and follow the same sequence.

4) Once your dog is solid on all of the above, put him on lead and start lightly tossing the object (dumbbell, ball etc). Prepare to go back in steps at this point because if your dog is not a natural retriever, this is a big jump. Also prepare to need to call/reel him in since again, he may not know that after he picks something up he is supposed to bring it back.

5) Depending on what your final goals are and your training style, you can use a food or toy reward when he get to you with the object - if you plan to hunt or show him though you either need to fade the food rewards quickly or never use them - most dogs will quickly learn to spit out the object to get their reward faster  If you want to use food, have him release the object and then run towards where you pre-planted the food or toy to reward 

Hope this helps


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## Lucas (Jun 15, 2010)

*Thanks for the advise.*

I will try this and update you on how this goes. 
Thanks for the advise.


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## RedDogs (Jan 30, 2010)

This isn't how I currently teach it, but is a fairly simple and fool-proof plan:

http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/retrieve.html


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

I thought I might include a link that you could look at - it shows a slightly different approach to the steps I mentioned above but the order of training is about the same with the release being taught first so back chaining can be used. 

http://www.topdogdallas.com/Training Articles.htm


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## Megora (Jun 7, 2010)

Two thoughts here... 

1. This is the reason why if you intend to pursue obedience or other sports with your dog that involve retrieving, you need to start when they are puppies. Basically, reinforcing the retrieve every retrieve, with puppers on long line until he gets the idea that he must bring his treasure back to you so you will praise him to pieces in a huge party because he's done the most marvelous thing ever. This is the foundation for your future off leash and complex retrieves (multiples, placed-not-thrown, etc). 

2. Some golden retrievers aren't retrievers or they lack that 'chase' drive. I think they can still be trained to retrieve (if collies with their bizarre toothless mouths can be trained to retrieve, goldens certainly can), but it's going to involve timing, reinforcement, and patience. 

Offhand -

a. whenever your dog brings something to you, even when it isn't an official 'retrieve', make sure you praise him BEFORE you grab the item (sometimes you have dogs who don't want to bring a treasure back to you because you grab it and throw it again. Each retrieve needs to be celebrated in full). <- I sometimes don't have food on hand when this happens, so I just say something like "What do you got? Let's go trade". Then I take him to the kitchen to give him a treat. This will lead your dog to randomly grab anything in your house to trade for food, but it does help reinforce the "bringing to you" behavior. 

b. Do not let your dog come back without the retrieve item. An unsuccessful retrieve becomes habit. When he comes back without it, you go out to the retrieve item with your dog and get him to pick it up and bring it back to where you were standing before. If he won't pick it up or is confused, you pick up the item and give it to him. Then you back up and tell him "bring it" or "bring it back". You do this enough times, it will connect. 

c. If your dog's 'food drive' is stronger than his retrieve or chase drive, you need to keep food out of sight and only give it to the dog when he is successful. Only reward good behaviors.

d. Teach the retrieve with something the dog likes. A favorite toy (not just tennis balls, but stuffed animals, stuffed smelly socks, anything he likes carrying in his mouth). 

ETA - I second Sunrise's tips. They are the ones that most people follow when they are training for open and may have a breed not exactly known for retrieving. Even if your dog knows how to retrieve, I know people follow these tips. <- I have. 

Or to be exact, this is how my training club teaches it:

1. Take It (dog takes item from hand), Hold (couple seconds only), Give, (Treat).
2. Take It (dog takes item from hand). Hold (thirty seconds), Give, (Treat).
3. Take It (dog picks item off chair), Hold (thirty seconds), Give, (Treat).
4. Take It (dog picks item off floor), Hold (thirty seconds), Give, (Treat). <- Item is placed further and further away as dog continues to be successful. 
5. Take It (dog retrieves thrown item), Hold (thirty seconds), Give, (Treat).


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## Lucas (Jun 15, 2010)

Thank you all for your fantastic responses.
I must explain that the reason that we are staring to work with Lucas so late is that he is a rescued dog.
He was with a family that had fallen on hard times and had insufficient income to support their 6 children let alone a dog.
We gave them a handsome sum for him since we felt that this was a charity case to help the family as much as to save Lucas who was little more than a bag of bones.
Incidentally we had not intended to take a new dog so soon after our 12 year old Newf had passed away but when we heard of Lucas’s situation we felt that we could not ignore his plight.
Lucas had never been taken for a walk and had never even been outside his large yard and garden so even lead training was new for him (he now walks beautifully to heal).
We slowly took this shy but loving dog to our hearts and apart from his annoying habit of trying to eat stones (perhaps due to his semi starved state we found him in), he is a happy balanced animal.

Thank you all once again for your support.

Jonny (Lucas’s human)


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

Thank YOU for taking Lucas in to your hrart and home - you know its kind of heartwarming how rehomed dogs just seem to appreciate a good life even more than pups brought into a home as puppies


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