# Sievers Retrievers - recommended??



## tippykayak

Well, the website has many red flags that would send me packing—lots of litters on the ground at a time, no mention of eye clearances, no way of independently verifying the claims of certifications, since no OFA numbers or registered names are given, no titles on any of the dogs whatsoever, etc.

I'm not saying they're bad people, but I've always looked for dogs that had rock solid health clearances that were independently verifiable, a whelping situation that allowed for a great deal of individual attention to each puppy, and working or show titles on the parents and grandparents, among other things.

Plus, they spell "Labradors" wrong, which freaks me out.


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## tippykayak

Oh yeah, I missed the Labradoodle litter on the first go-round. That would send me packing too.


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## Florabora22

I don't claim to know anything about breeders, but the fact that they sell labradoodles sort of turns me off. Doesn't mean that they don't have fantastic dogs, though. The best you can do is really research the breeder, talk to them, maybe visit, and then decide.


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## mdoats

Well, I found Sievers kennels at:

http://www.sieverskennels.com/

And if you go to k9data.com and offa.org and enter Sievers, you can check out the pedigree and health certifications of the parents of the puppy you are considering.

There are a few things that are noteworthy on their web site. They have 6 current litters. That's a LOT to handle at once. They breed labs, goldens, and golden doodles. You'll find lots of opinions on this site about breeders of golden doodles.

The sire of the current golden litter (? the only golden on the 'stud' page) is listed as 90 pounds. That's definitely bigger than the breed standard. They've only done preliminary hip clearance on him. At 3 1/2, I'd want to see more than a preliminary clearance. 

In the picture of the dam, she doesn't look particularly well cared for. It definitely could be just the photo, but I'd want to check her out carefully.

There are many sievers golden retrievers in the ofa database, but I don't see the ones that are listed as parents of the current litters. I may just be missing them.

I'd certainly want a lot more information about health certification of the dogs before buying a puppy from them. It's also a bit worrisome that there is so little info on the dams.


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## Pointgold

I believe that St. Louis rescue folks would have the best information.


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## tippykayak

I'd also add that many of the Goldens in the photos are either the victims of unflattering pictures are aren't put together very well. Many of the dogs look overweight too.


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## gabbys mom

Send me a PM. My first dog was a Sievers dog.


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## tippykayak

Since he's new, he won't be able to PM.


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## waldo34

What's a PM?


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## waldo34

Thank you for the replies. Wow. It pays to ask. 

I'm interested in gabby's mom's comments.....very interested.


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## gabbys mom

mdoats said:


> Well, I found Sievers kennels at:
> 
> http://www.sieverskennels.com/


There are two- Sievers Kennels and Sievers Retrievers- they are brothers. 

Okay: we got our Labrador bitch from Sievers Retrievers. She has quite severe hip dysplasia and elbow dysplasia- she has had one hip surgery and needs another hip surgery before the end of the summer. Several vets have told me that is fairly common from there. That was our experience


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## waldo34

I'm sorry about your pup. Thank you for sharing that...

I will be looking elsewhere. Thanks again!!


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## tippykayak

waldo34 said:


> Thank you for the replies. Wow. It pays to ask.
> 
> I'm interested in gabby's mom's comments.....very interested.


Have you seen the GRCA guide to choosing a breeder? It's a good start to the bare minimum standards with which a breeder should comply. I'd also say that elbow certs are pretty standard now on parents and grandparents.

There are lots of other criteria for picking a good breeder, but that checklist is a start.


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## gabbys mom

If you are looking for a Golden in in Saint Louis (I'm in Saint Louis too), let me know and I can give you the names of some people to talk to. 

also, the Golden Retriever Club of Greater Saint Louis has a GREAT puppy referral service! http://www.grcgsl.org/index.html


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## mdoats

The most important bit of advice I can offer (and the hardest one) is to be patient. Read a lot, investigate the breeder VERY carefully, and don't fall for a cute puppy. Pretty much all golden retriever puppies are cute. Make sure you get a healthy one. Better to wait a little bit longer than to have your heart broken (and your wallet emptied) later if your dog has hip or other health problems.


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## buckeyegoldenmom

Please read the sticky threads at the top of the Choosing a golden breeder and puppy section. There is a lot of helpful info there.

I find it is important to look for a breeder who shows. Not just if you are looking for a show quality pup,but because they are looking to improve the breed and are breeding to the breed standard.

Make sure they get ALL the clearances, and that the clearances are current and by the appropriate practitioner, not just the local vet.

It is hard to wait for the right fit, but believe me as someone who has been through the heartache and expense of hip replacement and severe eye problems....it is better to wait and find the responsible breeder.


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## Maggies mom

You could always try....http://www.hillsidegoldens.com. I would stay away from both Sievers


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## Cratemail

Siever's has many dogs at one time - were pig farmers and found that by raising golden's and goldendoodles, it was much easier to raise and sell. I'm not sure about clearances on their animals, so please check that before purchasing. 

I think that there are other options to compare them to and since you are adding a family member, would be good to have someone else to compare their business with.


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## Maggies mom

We have HAD MANY Siever's dogs come into our rescue....due to the owners not being able to afford the surgeries that there dog/pup was requiring, which ranged from hip/elbow and other things.


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## JGoza

*We had a sievers dog.*

We had a Sievers dog. He was a great dog, except for all the health problems. He was huge, weighing in at 106. Very big for a Golden. At 2 years old he had to have a TPLO surgery on one leg. They basically take the leg apart and put it back to gether with titanium parts and screws. He was a trooper and came through it great. He tore the other side almost 2 years to the day of the first one. We did the second surgery. It was very expensive. Scout has since died at the age of 8.5 of cancer. A very fast moving aggressive cancer. From when we found it to when he had to be put down was 60 days. He went through one surgery to take it out and it came back so fast. It broke our heart.

We have talked to numerous people who have gotten these dogs and have had similliar problems. Saw a pretty golden this past Halloween, it was from sievers and had the TPLO surgery too. When I brought the first surgery to the attention of the breeders they said that it was a not a genetic problem and they were not responsible for it. I have never heard from them to see how he was doing. Very dissapointing. 

When we went to pick Scout out they brought out 3 litters as once, all running together. On picking our next Golden we will be a lot more selective on where we go. I've been told that you get what you pay for, which means you either pay more for it now, or pay for it in vet bills later. 

J Goza


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## JGoza

*I should mention . . .*

Ours was from Sievers Retrievers.

J Goza


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## greyspeakrs

just bought a golden doodle from seivers on dec. 28th ( my wife and 2 daughters were with me). unfortunately i did not find this form untill now. i love the personality of my goldendoodle. i only heard of great things about seivers but once i got their it seemed like a puppy mill. i talked to them before comming and they put him in a dont sell area but he was so sticky from urine. i had to give my pup a bath before leaving. my vet stated she has seen many pets from their and biggest problem is elbow dysplasia and parasites (gardia ? possibley). The barn they keep them in smells alot like amonia and could use more cleaning (sorry im a clean freak). my wife stated that she felt like she was resquing him. any way this is my opinion


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## Bender

The only problem in 'rescuing' a dog from a place like that is it is a sale to them, and they just keep on going. And selling doodles... 'nuff said.

The breeder's place should NOT smell of amonia or anything else too much, apart from maybe a bit stinky from having puppies IN the house going to the bathroom, but still not so bad that people would be grossed out.

Lana


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## jdflick30

*Re: Sievers Retrievers*

I cannot speak regarding their Golden Retrievers.

I will mention I bought a Chocolate Lab from them 3 years ago "Romeo".

He has been the most WONDERFUL dog I have ever owned and trained (I've Trained Waterfowl dogs for 15 years). 

Romeo is Intelligent, Gentle, Loving, Eager to Please, Amazing with kids, athletic, great in the field not to mention healthy and durable with ZERO problems. All around A++

I will personally recommend their labs and will give you my phone number as a reference should you like to speak with me regarding my experience with Mr. Seirver.

I will admit its not the nicest kennel but they have a tremendous product. They are just a little more "Old School" I guess you could say. I personally pay for the product and not the ambiance.

Jeff Flick


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## Pointgold

jdflick30 said:


> I cannot speak regarding their Golden Retrievers.
> 
> I will mention I bought a Chocolate Lab from them 3 years ago "Romeo".
> 
> He has been the most WONDERFUL dog I have ever owned and trained (I've Trained Waterfowl dogs for 15 years).
> 
> Romeo is Intelligent, Gentle, Loving, Eager to Please, Amazing with kids, athletic, great in the field not to mention healthy and durable with ZERO problems. All around A++
> 
> I will personally recommend their labs and will give you my phone number as a reference 918.521.3301 should you like to speak with me regarding my experience with Mr. Seirver.
> 
> I will admit its not the nicest kennel but they have a tremendous product. They are just a little more "Old School" I guess you could say. I personally pay for the product and not the ambiance.
> 
> Jeff Flick


Has Romeo had his hips and elbows radiographed and cleared by OFA? Have his eyes been Optigen tested? Cardiac cleared by a board certified veterinary cardiologist?

Just because you don't look for it doesn't mean it isn't there. 

*Really? Romeo is a "product"?


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## Florabora22

Romeo could very well be super healthy, a nice "product" but the fact of the matter is, there are many, many people out there with dogs from Sievers that are suffering from health issues that could be prevented if those greeders took the appropriate measures and health checked their breeding stock. Of course, they don't care about what "product" they're producing, they just want to churn out as much "product" as possible to make a quick buck. Health clearances? Just a waste of time to them.


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## Maggies mom

kdmarsh said:


> Romeo could very well be super healthy, a nice "product" but the fact of the matter is, there are many, many people out there with dogs from Sievers that are suffering from health issues that could be prevented if those greeders took the appropriate measures and health checked their breeding stock. Of course, they don't care about what "product" they're producing, they just want to churn out as much "product" as possible to make a quick buck. Health clearances? Just a waste of time to them.


Dirks fund has TAKEN several Sievers Goldens in with many issues, There people didnt want to return the dog to them.


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## Shalva

I would just like to add one thing, one of the above posters stated that it was important to find someone who shows.... I don't entirely agree with that.... what I do think is that it is important for the breeder to be doing something wtih their dog that makes the dog prove they are worth breeding. Showing is just one venue, agility, obedience, hunt/field etc are all other venues that are valuable. The key is that hte breeder should be doing something to make their dog prove that they are worth breeding and being a nice dog just is not enough in my book. What is that dog going to add to the gene pool... how is that dog going to make a contribution and only through competition with a third party evaluating the dog will you really know if what you see as an owner can be verified by a third party (judge) I have known to many who are kennel blind... and its actually quite a natural thing to be kennel blind... in the same way that your spouse becomes the most gorgeous person in the world because you love them, the same things happens with our dogs.. of course they are beautiful, we love them, and that is why having a third party evaluate them is so important but it doesn't just have to be show... the other venues are acceptable as well.... as long as you are looking at advanced titles and not just basic titles


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## JGoza

As I stated Jeff, our dog was fantastic. He had a great mind, had a super disposition, watched over our daughter when people he didn't know was around. He was a very handsome dog too. One funny quirk was he was scared of gunfire! LOL I chalked that up to just his personality as they are sporting dogs from there. My problem was their lack of concern or responsibility when he came up with all the health problems. To them I was just a sale. I didn't want them to give me another dog, we loved Scout. I just wanted them to be aware of it. When we bought him they said if we had any questions to call. When I did they were annoyed. When I have problems with my dog or questions, I didn't want to feel like an imposition.

We are getting ready to get another Golden, but it won't be from them. We have found a really good breeder who does all the checks and only breds once every couple of years. I feel that if I need her advice in 6 years she will be there for me. 

I will not recommend them, at all.


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## Pointgold

jdflick30 said:


> I cannot speak regarding their Golden Retrievers.
> 
> I will mention I bought a Chocolate Lab from them 3 years ago "Romeo".
> 
> He has been the most WONDERFUL dog I have ever owned and trained (I've Trained Waterfowl dogs for 15 years).
> 
> Romeo is Intelligent, Gentle, Loving, Eager to Please, Amazing with kids, athletic, great in the field not to mention healthy and durable with ZERO problems. All around A++
> 
> I will personally recommend their labs and will give you my phone number as a reference should you like to speak with me regarding my experience with Mr. Seirver.
> 
> I will admit its not the nicest kennel but they have a tremendous product. They are just a little more "Old School" I guess you could say. I personally pay for the product and not the ambiance.
> 
> Jeff Flick


 
Love these Drive-By supporters. In - one post - out.


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## Pointgold

*Misleading*

Sievers Retrievers: The best black labradores, yellow labradores, chocolate labradores and golden retrievers available.

If one did not know better, this would give the impression that Goldendoodles are recognized by the AKC.


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## nolefan

Funny, I just found this thread and was thinking it was going to be entertaining to see if JDFLICK30 thought he was going to be able to reasonably defend his position (or rather, lack) to either PG or Shalva. 

I will never understand :no: why some people will continue to insist that the scientific advances we have available are "not worth the expense." Seems like a no brainer that the investment in the breeding stock could potentially save hundreds of thousands of dollars in avoidable medical treatment and surgeries over the lifespan of all the litters they produce if the testing can show that a particular dog shouldn't be bred.


It just seems to me like many of these people simply don't want to admit that maybe there's a better way and maybe they have something to learn. So tired of people's egos.... 

And I'm shocked at how much ahead of the game the golden retriever world is with testing in spite of the apalling stories we hear on this forum. After spending months researching for my collie puppy, I'm horrified by the complete lack of concern over clearances and testing that I found with collie breeders. I'd say 95% test for eyes only. Over and over I heard, "No, we don't do hips, collies aren't prone to that." Really???

I'm exhausted by these people. 
Sorry, this turned into slight hijacking, I just am truly mystified by dog people who are so short-sighted and ego driven.


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## Sally's Mom

Yes, at least good golden breeders do the testing for the various health issues. To agree with nolefan, I see a number of elder colllies with front and hindlimb lamenesses, yet they are never radiographed and cleared for breeding purposes. I also see a number of shelties whose forelimbs are deformed by arthritis in elbows and wrists in their elder years. So the moral of the story is to go with breeders who do the testing... and breeders who follow up when puppy owners report things to them.


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## DNL2448

nolefan said:


> I just am truly mystified by dog people who are so short-sighted and ego driven.


I think it is more money driven.


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## Megora

I had the same thought when somebody told me that it's unheard of for collies to have hip or elbow dysplasia and/or it isn't a huge concern in the breed. 

The advantage that collies have (I should think) is they are much lighter boned than goldens are. Our collie is a couple inches taller than our golden and he is 20 lbs lighter. And at 58lbs, he is still heavier than a lot of the collies in the ring. 

He has excellent hips and elbows... but he has arthritis in his neck that causes pinched nerves. And because he is so sensitive to pain, it does not take much for arthritis to be dehabilitating. So he can go from running like the wind to falling over and screaming from a pinched nerve.


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## Deb_Bayne

Pointgold said:


> Love these Drive-By supporters. In - one post - out.


Just a flick... LOL



> * Originally Posted by jdflick30
> 
> Jeff Flick
> *


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## Andrea S

*Siever's Retrievers sold me a golden retriever with hip dysplasia*

In March 2010, we bought a golden retriever puppy from Siever's and she has a very sweet disposition but she has suffered from food allergies and skin allergies from day one. In addition, we just took her in for x-rays because she was limping and we discovered she has hip dysplasia. The limping was from a fall, and we have no evidence that she is having any pain from the hip dysplasia. The problem with hip dysplasia is that when they are older, they are more likely to suffer from arthritis and degenerative joint disease. Before we bought her, we asked if the dogs were tested for heart, eye, and hip problems and they assured us that they tested the parents and did not breed any dogs with those problems. Hip dysplasia is a congenital disease, so obviously, one or both of the parents had the gene for hip dysplasia. I agree that Siever's seems to be a puppy mill because they breed their dogs too often and have way too many puppies at one time. When I called to tell them about the hip dysplasia in the golden retriever they sold me, they never returned my call. When I called them once in the past to ask a question about my other dog (a goldendoodle that was exhibiting some knee problems that eventually disappeared) that I bought from them, it was clear that they don't keep any records on computer, didn't want to go search for the paper records (if they exist at all), and were very defensive and not apologetic at all. I will never go back to Siever's. By the way, we paid $1,200 for our golden retriever puppy in March 2010, so it's not a situation of "you get what you pay for" (as if we got a puppy for a cheap price and so we should not be surprised if there are problems).


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## nolefan

Andrea, Thank you for sharing your experience here so that others may see it if they are searching for information on the internet.


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## mylissyk

Andrea S said:


> In March 2010, we bought a golden retriever puppy from Siever's and she has a very sweet disposition but she has suffered from food allergies and skin allergies from day one. In addition, we just took her in for x-rays because she was limping and we discovered she has hip dysplasia. The limping was from a fall, and we have no evidence that she is having any pain from the hip dysplasia. The problem with hip dysplasia is that when they are older, they are more likely to suffer from arthritis and degenerative joint disease. Before we bought her, we asked if the dogs were tested for heart, eye, and hip problems and they assured us that they tested the parents and did not breed any dogs with those problems. Hip dysplasia is a congenital disease, so obviously, one or both of the parents had the gene for hip dysplasia. I agree that Siever's seems to be a puppy mill because they breed their dogs too often and have way too many puppies at one time. When I called to tell them about the hip dysplasia in the golden retriever they sold me, they never returned my call. When I called them once in the past to ask a question about my other dog (a goldendoodle that was exhibiting some knee problems that eventually disappeared) that I bought from them, it was clear that they don't keep any records on computer, didn't want to go search for the paper records (if they exist at all), and were very defensive and not apologetic at all. I will never go back to Siever's. By the way, we paid $1,200 for our golden retriever puppy in March 2010, so it's not a situation of "you get what you pay for" (as if we got a puppy for a cheap price and so we should not be surprised if there are problems).


I'm sorry about the problems you and your pup are having. I hope she does well with her hips and never needs surgical intervention. A lot of dogs do live a normal life with bad hips. Thank you for sharing your experience.


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## Maggies mom

There are 2 Sievers..both brothers breed, one is Sievers Kennels and the other is Sievers Retriever. Both are nightmares, but Sievers Kennels is worse.


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## vcm5

This is so sad to read. All these poor dogs with health problems and all these poor people who are having to deal with this. Its so sad, I want to cry.


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## Andrea S

Andrea S said:


> In March 2010, we bought a golden retriever puppy from Siever's and she has a very sweet disposition but she has suffered from food allergies and skin allergies from day one. In addition, we just took her in for x-rays because she was limping and we discovered she has hip dysplasia. The limping was from a fall, and we have no evidence that she is having any pain from the hip dysplasia. The problem with hip dysplasia is that when they are older, they are more likely to suffer from arthritis and degenerative joint disease. Before we bought her, we asked if the dogs were tested for heart, eye, and hip problems and they assured us that they tested the parents and did not breed any dogs with those problems. Hip dysplasia is a congenital disease, so obviously, one or both of the parents had the gene for hip dysplasia. I agree that Siever's seems to be a puppy mill because they breed their dogs too often and have way too many puppies at one time. When I called to tell them about the hip dysplasia in the golden retriever they sold me, they never returned my call. When I called them once in the past to ask a question about my other dog (a goldendoodle that was exhibiting some knee problems that eventually disappeared) that I bought from them, it was clear that they don't keep any records on computer, didn't want to go search for the paper records (if they exist at all), and were very defensive and not apologetic at all. I will never go back to Siever's. By the way, we paid $1,200 for our golden retriever puppy in March 2010, so it's not a situation of "you get what you pay for" (as if we got a puppy for a cheap price and so we should not be surprised if there are problems).


Just wanted to follow up to my original post about Siever's Retrievers. My golden retriever's limp has disappeared and the orthopedic surgeon who examined her said she didn't feel any swelling. Told me to keep her on pain meds for 5 more days and keep her quiet (no running, no stairs, etc.) and bring her back if the limp returns. So far, no limp. Regarding the hip dysplasia, Roger Siever of Siever's Retrievers called me last week to tell me to have my vet send the x-rays of my golden retriever's back legs and hips to the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) in Columbia, MO for a second opinion. If the OFA determines that my dog has hip dysplasia, then Siever's Retrievers will refund our purchase price, since my dog's hips are still under a 30-month warranty. They test the parents for hips, elbows, heart, and thyroid (not eyes because some vet told them their dogs are fine and it would be a waste of money to test the dogs' eyes) and they don't breed the ones that have hip dysplasia. However, the problem could be 20 generations ago, where one or both parents carried the gene but didn't physically express it as having hip dysplasia.


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## tippykayak

Andrea S said:


> (not eyes because some vet told them their dogs are fine and it would be a waste of money to test the dogs' eyes)


Whatever vet said that is not up on breed-specific issues. Goldens have a couple of very serious issues (pigmentary uveitis in particular is highly breed-specific and hard to eradicate both because it tends to crop up later in life and is easily misdiagnosed).

Any breeder worth his or her salt should know enough about the breed to know this and to keep getting their dogs CERFed every year, even after they're retired from the breeding program. There's a reason it's part of the bare minimum ethical requirements set out by the GRCA. You can read more about eye clearances here on the GRCA's site.

It's important to remember that the "big four" clearances are part of the _bare minimum_ for an ethical Golden Retriever breeding. "We don't have that problem in our lines" is currently an acceptable explanation for forgoing thyroid or prcd-PRA testing, but not for missing eye, heart, elbow, or hip clearances.


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## Andrea S

Just received confirmation from the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) that our 2 and a half year old golden retriever that we bought from Siever's Retrievers has mild hip dysplasia. Be warned! Not sure how this could have been avoided, but there are several things about Siever's that bother me, such as the fact that they let us bring home our puppy at 7 weeks of age (I thought the earliest that was allowed was 8 weeks), they don't seem to keep track of documents concerning dogs they have sold, and they have a lot of puppies for sale at any one time. Also, they claim that they don't need to screen the dogs' eyes because "their vet told them it's a waste of money because all their dogs are fine." Will definitely go elsewhere in the future and will not recommend Siever's Retrievers. In the meantime, our dog faces a future of pain from hip dysplasia because of this irresponsible breeder.


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## Pointgold

Andrea S said:


> Just received confirmation from the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) that our 2 and a half year old golden retriever that we bought from Siever's Retrievers has mild hip dysplasia. Be warned! Not sure how this could have been avoided, but there are several things about Siever's that bother me, such as the fact that they let us bring home our puppy at 7 weeks of age (I thought the earliest that was allowed was 8 weeks), they don't seem to keep track of documents concerning dogs they have sold, and they have a lot of puppies for sale at any one time. Also, they claim that they don't need to screen the dogs' eyes because "their vet told them it's a waste of money because all their dogs are fine." Will definitely go elsewhere in the future and will not recommend Siever's Retrievers. In the meantime, our dog faces a future of pain from hip dysplasia because of this irresponsible breeder.


Andrea, please get your dog to an ACVO veterinary ophthalmologist and get a CERF exam. Given that these people are so grossly negiligent as far as their breeding practices, the chances of there being hereditary eye issues are greatly increased. It is recommended that Goldens have CERF exams ANNUALLY, and not just breeding animals. Pigmentary uveitis is a very painful and potentially blinding (as in removal of the eye) disease. Early diagnosis (hence yearly exams) can save the dog's sight, and prevent painful suffering.


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## LibertyME

In some states it is unlawful to sell a pup until they are 8 weeks old (i.e. Maine), but that is not a hard and fast rule in every state --7 weeks is still acceptable in many. I recently bought home a 7 week old from Canada. In all honesty she is no more mouthy then other 8 week old pups Ive had. However, I am glad that she has the advantage of having 3 other dogs that have continued her bite inhibition lessons.


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## Andrea S

Just confirmed this week that my golden retriever that I bought from Sievers Retrievers 2 and a half years ago does have mild hip dysplasia. The OFA sent me its report, stating that she's a 2 on a scale of 1 to 4, which is considered "mild hip dysplasia." I called Sievers and they are going to refund our purchase price. 

I have heard of other breeders who won't refund your money unless you agree to give your dog back to them, so Sievers is being generous, compared to other breeders. It seems like a technique used by some breeders to make them look good because they know no one will ever give up their dog.

As a result of the research I've done, it sounds like you have a very good chance of getting a golden retriever who has hip dysplasia, no matter who you purchase it from. However, I still believe that Sievers should do more to prevent this from happening in the future, such as: they should have an actual veterinary ophthalmologist examine their dogs' eyes (they don't currently check the dogs' eyes because their vet told them it's a waste of money to do so because "all their dogs' eyes are fine"), they should keep better records (I don't think they have anything on computer and seem confused when you call and ask questions), and they should offer proof of clearances (eyes, hips, elbows, heart) and more information about the dogs' parents so potential buyers can research the line and make an informed choice. 

I understand that no breeder can guarantee that a golden retriever won't have hip dysplasia or any other problem, but I fear that Sievers is going to keep breeding the mother or father (they couldn't tell me for sure which one they still have and which one has been "retired") even though they know it has at least one puppy with mild hip dysplasia. I have heard that it's common practice for breeders to breed two dogs even if one has been rated "Fair" by the OFA, but I just can't imagine that a good breeder would continue to breed a dog when they have been notified of a puppy that has been rated by the OFA to have "mild hip dysplasia."


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## sbhomey

I have a golden from Sievers. There are two breeders in Meppen, IL they are brothers and each have a kennel. Sievers Retrivers and Sievers Kennels.

I love my golden. He is regularly complemented by strangers who tell me how handsome he is. I have been stopped and asked where he came from on several occasions.

While I may be biased, he is physically more appealing than nearly every golden I see.


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## SheetsSM

Count yourself lucky--the Sievers kennels are doing nothing to better the breed and are just churning out pups, you should ask them how many of their pups end up in the local rescues when families can't deal with the health issues.


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## Pointgold

Andrea S said:


> Just confirmed this week that my golden retriever that I bought from Sievers Retrievers 2 and a half years ago does have mild hip dysplasia. The OFA sent me its report, stating that she's a 2 on a scale of 1 to 4, which is considered "mild hip dysplasia." I called Sievers and they are going to refund our purchase price.
> 
> I have heard of other breeders who won't refund your money unless you agree to give your dog back to them, so Sievers is being generous, compared to other breeders. It seems like a technique used by some breeders to make them look good because they know no one will ever give up their dog.
> 
> As a result of the research I've done, it sounds like you have a very good chance of getting a golden retriever who has hip dysplasia, no matter who you purchase it from. However, I still believe that Sievers should do more to prevent this from happening in the future, such as: they should have an actual veterinary ophthalmologist examine their dogs' eyes (they don't currently check the dogs' eyes because their vet told them it's a waste of money to do so because "all their dogs' eyes are fine"), they should keep better records (I don't think they have anything on computer and seem confused when you call and ask questions), and they should offer proof of clearances (eyes, hips, elbows, heart) and more information about the dogs' parents so potential buyers can research the line and make an informed choice.
> 
> I understand that no breeder can guarantee that a golden retriever won't have hip dysplasia or any other problem, but I fear that Sievers is going to keep breeding the mother or father (they couldn't tell me for sure which one they still have and which one has been "retired") even though they know it has at least one puppy with mild hip dysplasia. I have heard that it's common practice for breeders to breed two dogs even if one has been rated "Fair" by the OFA, but I just can't imagine that a good breeder would continue to breed a dog when they have been notified of a puppy that has been rated by the OFA to have "mild hip dysplasia."


 
You have a far greater chance of getting a Golden with HD if there is no history of clearances at least 3-5 generations back. Breeding cleared animals (with a solid ancestral history in a vertical pedigree of cleared relatives) GREATLY _decreases _the risk of producing dogs with HD/ED, cardiac and eye problem. And a "Fair" is passing. KNOWING what is in the vertical pedigree helps a knowledgeable, ethical breeder determine the best way to breed a dog with a "Fair" rating. If that "Fair" dog had siblings that were dysplastic, I would not breed it. If she had siblings that were Excellent, then, yes.)
This is why it is SO important for buyers to SEE CLEARANCE DOCUMENTATION before considering a purchase.


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## Dallas Gold

sbhomey said:


> I have a golden from Sievers. There are two breeders in Meppen, IL they are brothers and each have a kennel. Sievers Retrivers and Sievers Kennels.
> 
> I love my golden. He is regularly complemented by strangers who tell me how handsome he is. I have been stopped and asked where he came from on several occasions.
> 
> While I may be biased, he is physically more appealing than nearly every golden I see.


Your dog is indeed lovely; however, the things that matter are your dog's health. How old is your Golden? Any health issues yet? Has your Golden been screened for hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, heart defects? Has your Golden passed a CERF exam? Any severe allergies, thyroid issues or digestive issues? In my opinion those are the the most important things to know, not where he came from. I had a rescue Golden with some "exotic" looks that stopped a parade, literally, so the MC could talk about him. He was definitely one to get attention from people; however, his health was terrible. I'd rather have a healthy Golden who descended from a line with all the clearances for several generations back than a Golden that looks great on the outside, but is battling all sorts of health issues on the inside. JMO.


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## Vhuynh2

sbhomey said:


> While I may be biased, he is physically more appealing than nearly every golden I see.


And I have never seen a golden more beautiful than mine  Don't all owners believe that about their dogs? And yes, people have also stopped me, asking where I got her, and that she must've been expensive, because they (other golden pups) don't all look like her.

I would trade some of her cuteness for an entropion-free eye, or nonexistent possible hip problems


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## sievers123

*Sievers Retrievers*

We are Sievers Retrievers, we do a lot of preliminary's and also OFA certifications...but this is 35 years of back ground on these lines that we have and we can go back all of that way and let you know any information on any dog that is in our lines. We have hearts, thyroid, elbows and Hips checked, we have them all listed here and if anyone ever wanted a copy of these we are always willing to email or print them off a copy. We do not post them on the internet because it is very time consuming but we never deny any of our customers from not seeing all of the dogs information, honesty is the best policy. 99% of our dogs have their OFA's done and are listed in the OFA data base for all to view or send us a email or call for more information. As far as the smell goes, we do everything to disinfect our kennels...in the winter time frame it does smell at times because they are in a building that is closed up to keep the puppies warm and dry, the kennel has a heated floor to help with this and keep it dry. When we clean it does make it wet, it will smell and if your not used to it it might make you want to leave...its a kennel, its not going to smell like roses. Golden Retrievers are not meant to be a 106 lbs, on average ours are no more then 90-95lbs. If you have a dog from us that is 106lbs that can be caused by many things...not the proper exercise, feeding off the table, or you may want to go ahead and get the dogs thyroid checked just to be on the safe side. Breeding dogs for 35 years and if we had such bad dogs we wouldn't have people coming back for their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd dog. Yes we might have a issue once in awhile, we can't play god and prevent everything but we do everything that we can to raise health, calm, easy going and non hyper dogs. Yes we may be a bit red neck, live in the country, and we are very darn proud to be down to earth people who stand by our dogs even if its years later. We do not appreciate the slandering remarks on the internet and would prefer for all that do not know us give us a call and come on over for a visit...we would be happy to introduce you to all of our dogs, family and let you see our process. Remember we do have to get checked by the State of Illinois and also AKC once a year, this is a surprise visit and we pass with flying colors every year for the past 35 years. 
Thanks
Roger and Michelle Sievers and staff


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## Megora

Looking at the breed standard - golden retrievers are not supposed to be 90+ lbs. That is 20+ pounds over the breed standard. A golden retriever bred to standard should be about 60-75 lbs - with a 5# allowance generally. And females, because they are smaller than males should be lighter than that. I know people whose females generally are between 50-65lbs at a healthy weight.

If you have a dog who is so overweight as to weigh in the 90's - I would suspect a thyroid problem or these dogs are not breed standard size (24" tops for males, females shorter than that). My older boy is 85lbs, and he absolutely is too heavy and needs to lose a good 10+ lbs. The dogs we had who were 90+ lbs, were seniors and usually were not able to get the correct amount of exercise to get that weight off + they were heavy with fatty tumors.

Preliminaries are not clearances. 

And breeding a dog prior to full clearances is no-no.

Core clearances should be EYES, Hearts, Elbows, and Hips. Final clearances for elbows and hips. And preferably these should be viewed on OFFA.org. Eyes should be done every year.

There's a lady here in Michigan who has been breeding for about 30+ years and is frequently checked by the State of Michigan and also AKC. But she's seen as a puppy mill by everyone who is trying to get her shut down. So amount of time somebody is breeding + their statements of getting OK's from the state and AKC is meaningless.

And don't forget - see the GRCA.org statement w/regards to intentionally producing mutts (doodles).

*** And somebody just told me that this breeder is even worse than I understood, as they not only are producing all kinds of poodle mixes, but they are deliberately producing lab mixes (goldens X labs). Seriously what the heck is wrong with people. Aren't there enough mixed breeds in animal shelters and rescue groups?! >.<


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## xooxlinds

Very interesting thread, commenting to follow.


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## Carmel

Please don't support these kind of Greeders. Everyone knows you are going to love whatever puppy you get, so support a good breeder who is seriously concerned for the welfare of the Golden Retriever now and in the future, and not just interested in the money they can make off their current SIX?? litters! You'd think with all that cash they could at least finish up the OFA clearances and not continue breeding to dysplastic throwing dogs. But then again, when that bitch comes in heat, all they see is the dollar signs.


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## SunnynSey

Wow, just literally puppy farmers. I've never seen anyone have to defend the smell of their kennel, must be something horrible!


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## Coopsmom

sievers123 said:


> We are Sievers Retrievers, we do a lot of preliminary's and also OFA certifications...but this is 35 years of back ground on these lines that we have and we can go back all of that way and let you know any information on any dog that is in our lines. We have hearts, thyroid, elbows and Hips checked, we have them all listed here and if anyone ever wanted a copy of these we are always willing to email or print them off a copy. We do not post them on the internet because it is very time consuming but we never deny any of our customers from not seeing all of the dogs information, honesty is the best policy. 99% of our dogs have their OFA's done and are listed in the OFA data base for all to view or send us a email or call for more information. As far as the smell goes, we do everything to disinfect our kennels...in the winter time frame it does smell at times because they are in a building that is closed up to keep the puppies warm and dry, the kennel has a heated floor to help with this and keep it dry. When we clean it does make it wet, it will smell and if your not used to it it might make you want to leave...its a kennel, its not going to smell like roses. Golden Retrievers are not meant to be a 106 lbs, on average ours are no more then 90-95lbs. If you have a dog from us that is 106lbs that can be caused by many things...not the proper exercise, feeding off the table, or you may want to go ahead and get the dogs thyroid checked just to be on the safe side. Breeding dogs for 35 years and if we had such bad dogs we wouldn't have people coming back for their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd dog. Yes we might have a issue once in awhile, we can't play god and prevent everything but we do everything that we can to raise health, calm, easy going and non hyper dogs. Yes we may be a bit red neck, live in the country, and we are very darn proud to be down to earth people who stand by our dogs even if its years later. We do not appreciate the slandering remarks on the internet and would prefer for all that do not know us give us a call and come on over for a visit...we would be happy to introduce you to all of our dogs, family and let you see our process. Remember we do have to get checked by the State of Illinois and also AKC once a year, this is a surprise visit and we pass with flying colors every year for the past 35 years.
> Thanks
> Roger and Michelle Sievers and staff


The internet is a wonderful thing! you revived a very old thread to defend your breeding practices and have provided a wealth of information for potential puppy buyers. An educated buyer is a good thing!!
1) too much of a hassle for you to post clearances on your website - paper copies have been known to be altered.
2) you admit that your dogs are 90-95 lbs and seem to have no issue with that! seems clear that you are not paying attention to the golden retriever standard
3) kennel smell? How many dogs are in your kennel at one time? 
4) health issues? can you comment on the issues that people in this thread are discussing? hips, allergies, etc?
5) slandering? i haven't scoured the internet for comments about your kennels but this thread alone raises concerns for me. Are you suggesting that the things people have shared in this thread are untrue?
6) your website states the following: "all of our breeds are free from hereditary problems" and "dogs are thought to be the healthiest and well socialized you will find in the entire midwest region" <--- those are bold statements and I don't see anything to back them up except for the words on your website.
Buyer beware!


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## Indybucki

gabbys mom said:


> Send me a PM. My first dog was a Sievers dog.


Looking for a labradoodle - what about Sievers?


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## SheetsSM

Indybucki said:


> Looking for a labradoodle - what about Sievers?


Did you take the time to read the thread? Also, you might want to look at the Lab and Poodle club of America on their thoughts of mixing the two breeds & how to discern fact from fiction on the outrageous claims these breeders make.


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## Prism Goldens

I'd never read this thread-- but I have to comment on the website sieverskennels.com... think much of yourself lol? WORLD famous for Goldens? 
I kinda doubt that = look at their stud dogs- Sievers Kennels - Hunting Dogs & Family Pets, Labradors & Golden Retrievers
Oh my, please learn to stack a dog so they don't look worse than they probably are ....


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## Audijill

Where did you get your next Golden?


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