# Dora



## Gary MOsely (Oct 7, 2018)

Hi.


:help!:


It brakes my heart to have to share this story with you all and I would be grateful if your replies are posted with empathy and an open mind.


I have been a dog owner for 13 years and a dog lover since I can remember so I feel like a failure right now.


Dora is 3 years old lives our 13 year old JRT X Patterdale, Cookie who get on very well together providing everyone knows that Cookie is the boss! Both dogs have a good life with lots of company at home, are well socialised and have nice long walks regularly.


It was this May that life in Dora's eyes has taken a turn for the worse as my wife and I have had a baby. Dora has really adjusted well with the new addition and is now incredibly needy and hard work in the house. 


With two dogs running about the house my wife and I made the decision to put a door gate in between the kitchen diner and the hallway and enforce that the pooches live the back of the house a couple of years ago. In my eyes this kept the house from looking and smelling like a kennel and also prevents the pack from trashing the house when we are out. Over time Dora has foud being 'behind bars' more and more unbearable and would paw at the gate and then this would escalate to a bark until she is let into the living room. I would like to add that the dogs are free to join us in the lounge in the evenings after their walk and after our dinner. 


All this started way before bomb fire night I might add (which seems to start on Halloween theses days). This is problem has got even worse when we have people round to see our new addition to the family and who may not be doggy people.


I am fully aware that there needs to be new training and rules implemented now we have a baby in the house and I have made a conscious effort to do so. I knew it would take time and adjustment for my pack especially for Dora, who I have to keep reminding myself and my wife is still just a puppy but it really pains me to say this but I really don't think I can keep her for much longer now our priorities has changed at home. My eldest dog, Cookie has adjusted well to the new addition and accepts that once the baby is asleep the dogs get lots of love and attention but he is much older and wiser.


Recently we came down stairs to *diarrhea* on the half landing and hallway. I know all dogs react differently to fireworks but I think Dora seems to be getting worse every year. Now we have a baby in the house I also can not have dog excrement added to the mix too.:crying: We have created a THUNDERSHIRT from an old scalf which we wrap around her during the firework season which goes on at sunset. It works to a degree. 


My wife and I have discussed contacting the Golden Retriever Rescue Centre and the idea of Dora going to a new home in our area and although rehoming Dora during the firework period is not a good move I'm not actually sure if it is the fireworks causing her issues or if it is separation anxiety due to the door gate or related to our new arrival, or a mix of everything and can't help but think that a new owner that does not have children and can dedicate the time to Dora would be more suited. I feel really bad about this and it has caused some heated convo between my wife and I as you can imagine and my wife thinks that I will resent her if we chose to rehome Dora.:frown2: I won't but what I do know is that I need to do what's right for both the dog and for my family.


I am grateful of any advise and tips but I may need a miracle to turn things around for Dora and convince my wife (who is also at braking point) to keep Dora as a family pet.
Thanks in advance for not judging me regardless of my decision for Dora. I know that with your help and with a little TLC Dora will be fine.:laugh:


Gary.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

No judgement from me... I have a dog with terrible anxiety issues but it's about everything, not just fireworks. So I get the stress it causes on the family. Get in contact with your local rescue, I'm sure they will help.. you may even offer a donation to their group. These people do a wonderful job of picking the right home, do home checks and follow up and will always allow them to return her if it's more than they can handle.

Just something to consider if you ever get another dog... research the breed very closely. Being gated off from their people is really hard on a golden, they take it personally. They also shed a lot and need baths often to avoid the doggie smell. My girls get bathed weekly  Maybe a different breed would have worked better for you. It's good you are thinking of your golden and realize this is more than you bargained for. It's not like you have a bad dog, it's just not a good fit. There is a home out there that will be perfect and your golden deserves to be happy too.

Good luck and hope all goes well.


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## Gary MOsely (Oct 7, 2018)

puddles everywhere said:


> No judgement from me... I have a dog with terrible anxiety issues but it's about everything, not just fireworks. So I get the stress it causes on the family. Get in contact with your local rescue, I'm sure they will help.. you may even offer a donation to their group. These people do a wonderful job of picking the right home, do home checks and follow up and will always allow them to return her if it's more than they can handle.
> 
> Just something to consider if you ever get another dog... research the breed very closely. Being gated off from their people is really hard on a golden, they take it personally. They also shed a lot and need baths often to avoid the doggie smell. My girls get bathed weekly ? Maybe a different breed would have worked better for you. It's good you are thinking of your golden and realize this is more than you bargained for. It's not like you have a bad dog, it's just not a good fit. There is a home out there that will be perfect and your golden deserves to be happy too.
> 
> Good luck and hope all goes well.


Thank you. Sound advise. Just to let you know I have called G.R rescue centre in my area and they are sending out a questionnaire to fill out before a home visit.


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## Gary MOsely (Oct 7, 2018)

You think I should remove the door gate then??


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

All dogs need to be with their families, but Goldens are especially people oriented. If Dora is going to spend the rest of her life shut off from the family, the kindest thing would be to let her go to rescue now while she is in her prime and will be easily adopted. Let the rescue know about her anxiety, there are medications available to help and give her better quality of life. She deserves better than what she's been getting.


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## Gary MOsely (Oct 7, 2018)

nolefan said:


> All dogs need to be with their families, but Goldens are especially people oriented. If Dora is going to spend the rest of her life shut off from the family, the kindest thing would be to let her go to rescue now while she is in her prime and will be easily adopted. Let the rescue know about her anxiety, there are medications available to help and give her better quality of life. She deserves better than what she's been getting.


Thanks for this. I would like to add that I don’t recall saying that I intend to keep her locked away for eternity denieing her access to her people. I’m not that cruel?she is not locked behind the bars of doom when we are home and has free roam of the downstairs floor unless we are out of the house, when she goes to bed or the if a visitor comes round.


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## Gary MOsely (Oct 7, 2018)

My wife thinks Dora looks depressed. Can food effect mood?


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## Gary MOsely (Oct 7, 2018)

Hates fireworks. We have allowed her on the bed the last week due to her anxieties. How do I reintroduce the No Dogs on The Bed rule once the pirotechniques cease?


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Dora is a beautiful girl. I hope that perhaps you will talk to you vet about Dora's fear of fireworks, and get her the help she needs. Sometimes medications can help to calm, sometimes dogs need a 'safe place' to hide during upsetting events, sometimes our dogs find comfort and safety by simply being near and with us. I have a sound sensitive girl and it does take an extra effort to help her feel safe and cope during an event - whether it is fireworks or thunder storms. Noise phobias don't simply disappear, and often do get progressively worse over the years, and sometimes the dog will generalize those fears to all loud or sudden noises, if they are not getting the help they need and deserve.
Unfortunately fear in dogs can result in digestive upset, resulting in accidents, this is not the dog's fault - they are not choosing to be afraid, they are not choosing to make a mess and create more work for us, they are really not a who lot different than children who have both physical and emotional needs. 

The website: fearfuldogs.com or the Facebook Page :Fearful Dogs by Debbie Jacobs can help us understand how fears can impact dogs lives, their quality of life, and provide some guidance in ways to help them through those difficult times. 

Please keep in mind: 'Your dog is not _giving _you a hard time, she is _having _a hard time.' and she needs your empathy, compassion and understanding. 


I understand the need at times to confine your pups, and Dora's response is quite normal for a dog (any dog really) who loves her family and wants to be with them. However there are some things you can try that may help being alone for short periods a little easier for her. Give her and your other pup something to do - stuff some goodies into a Kong, freeze it and give it to her when you need to confine her. Give her some toys to play with, interactive dogs toys where they have to use their brains to get the treats out, can help as well, a chew bone to work on, to help pass the time. Spend some time with both dogs in their confinement area, playing, perhaps rehearsing and rewarding known behaviors, teaching new ones, in order to help create a positive association with the location. 

Understandably your wife has a lot going on, taking care of your baby, trying to maintain a household, and the two pups, is a lot for her right now, pretty intensive and understandably, she is tired and feeling perhaps a bit overwhelmed. Take the time to talk this through, think carefully and decide what is best for all of you. If you decide to keep Dora, discuss what changes need to be made to make life a bit easier for all of you. Perhaps a dog walker to come during the day, is an option? to take the pups out for an hour or so, give them some exercise, tire them out, give your wife a chance to focus on the baby, perhaps get some much needed rest. Perhaps there are some 'extra' things that you might do to help out as well? 
There are a lot of things to consider, raising a family, caring for lives, both children and pets, that are totally dependent on is hard work, absolutely, and we sometimes don't realize it until we are 'knee deep' in it, and you both have decide whether this is doable for your family, for your pets, for your situation.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

I think everyone understood you were attempting to find balance with a very anxious dog and a new baby with no intent of cruelty. Anxious dogs can be a challenge, it's also hard to understand if you have never had one.

As far as returning to the no dog on furniture it's pretty simple... teach off. It takes patience but very doable, just provide a bed next to your bed as an alternative, teach them "bed". Toss a treat into the bed and as soon as they step into the bed say the command and be excited for getting in their own bed. They will catch on if you are consistent.

If they get on the bed just calmly remove from the bed and tell them "off". Reward as soon as they are on the floor so they will learn this is where you want them. I also teach my pups to ask permission before getting up there. It's cute how they look up at you with that "can I" look. Good luck with the training or relocation, whichever you choose to do.


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## Gary MOsely (Oct 7, 2018)

Thanks for passing on your knowledge and wisdom. I’m not about to just give up on Dora and tbh that’s why I chose to register to this forum. Dora is only three and therefore my knowledge of golden sis only three years experience. I’m often torn between what are traits of my Dora and what are just traits of a Golden. She is a family member and won’t be throwing the towel in unless I’ve exhausted all avenues. Ideally I could do with a dog walker friend who has a golden?

Being “knee deep” is a very good analogy especially when I run out of steam after juggling night shifts, Daddy Day Care, Dog Walking oh and Happy Wife, Happy life!?
I wouldn’t change it for the world and the dogs have done nothing wrong other than existing when I am at the end of my wick. I’m often feeling bad for the pooches, even more so now little one is around?

As for the fireworks we continue with the scalf trick each night and allow her to be as clingy as she likes. I’m probably going to need to invest in a bigger bed though if her anxieties become permanent ??️. Failing that relocate to the garage?!?


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## Gary MOsely (Oct 7, 2018)

puddles everywhere said:


> I think everyone understood you were attempting to find balance with a very anxious dog and a new baby with no intent of cruelty. Anxious dogs can be a challenge, it's also hard to understand if you have never had one.
> 
> As far as returning to the no dog on furniture it's pretty simple... teach off. It takes patience but very doable, just provide a bed next to your bed as an alternative, teach them "bed". Toss a treat into the bed and as soon as they step into the bed say the command and be excited for getting in their own bed. They will catch on if you are consistent.
> 
> If they get on the bed just calmly remove from the bed and tell them "off". Reward as soon as they are on the floor so they will learn this is where you want them. I also teach my pups to ask permission before getting up there. It's cute how they look up at you with that "can I" look. Good luck with the training or relocation, whichever you choose to do.



I’ll try that. Thanks. And thanks for being so empathetic.


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## sophieanne (Feb 4, 2014)

I hope things work out but if not, I think you're making the right decision finding beautiful Dora a new home. I realize your life has changed but so has hers. You need to do what is right for all concerned. I wish I could be empathetic but some of the things you have written lead me to think that you're not, although your wife is. Sorry..


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## Gary MOsely (Oct 7, 2018)

sophieanne said:


> I hope things work out but if not, I think you're making the right decision finding beautiful Dora a new home. I realize your life has changed but so has hers. You need to do what is right for all concerned. I wish I could be empathetic but some of the things you have written lead me to think that you're not, although your wife is. Sorry..


Hi Sophie. I will be exploring all possible avenues before I rehome Dora. Would you care to elaborate on your post please? I’m keen on hearing everyone’s point of view - good or bad. Also I have developed skin as thick as a seal so you really won’t offend!!


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## nolefan (Nov 6, 2009)

Gary MOsely said:


> Hi.
> ...Dora is 3 years old lives our 13 year old JRT X Patterdale, Cookie ....It was this May that life in Dora's eyes has taken a turn for the worse as my wife and I have had a baby. Dora has really adjusted well with the new addition and is now incredibly needy and hard work in the house.
> 
> With two dogs running about the house my wife and I made the decision to put a door gate in between the kitchen diner and the hallway and enforce that the pooches live the back of the house a couple of years ago.In my eyes this kept the house from looking and smelling like a kennel and also prevents the pack from trashing the house when we are out. Over time Dora has foud being 'behind bars' more and more unbearable and would paw at the gate and then this would escalate to a bark until she is let into the living room. I would like to add that the dogs are free to join us in the lounge in the evenings after their walk and after our dinner......
> Gary.




Gary, you've just told us something that doesn't mesh with your original post. I am a huge believer in crating dogs when I leave the house or can't watch them to keep them from chewing things or destroying the house. However, I am not a believer in gating them off to keep them from being in the same room from the family. Which is what you told us you're doing. She doesn't understand that she has been alone all day and has to be isolated until after dinner. She's a dog.

I have 3 children. I have 2 dogs. I do not understand why things should be so drastically changed just because you've added a baby to the mix. If you step up and help your wife with vacuuming and cleaning and taking care of things around the house, it makes no sense to me why things are so difficult. 

If you take your dog to the vet and discuss her anxiety with the vet, there are medications to help with anxiety. The details of the information you've given us make me think that you are not being entirely honest with yourself about the quality of life Dora is getting.[font color blue]


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## sophieanne (Feb 4, 2014)

Hi Gary,
I agree with what Nolefan wrote above.
To start though, I apologize, I read your post again and it is your wife that is ready to rehome Dora. Nonethless, the things that (right or wrong) bothered me included you saying "In Dora's eyes life has taken a turn to the worse.."due to the addition of the baby".What I think is that Dora is confused, you have the new baby and suddenly she's confused about how she fits in. You close her in another room when she wants to be with you. No wonder she's craving attention. Your 3 year old baby is no longer the house baby. As long as she's not in the way, why not let her spend time (even a few minutes at a time till a comfort level is built) with the family so she's use to the new situation. Look at some of the fabulous pictures on this site of members with their dogs and babies/grandbabies, it touches the heart.
One of the reasons you talk about separating the dogs is to avoid your house looking and smelling like a kennel. If you help your wife with the cleaning that shouldn't be so bad. I've had dogs my whole life (58 years) and if I ever doubted there would be hair on the floor, toys scattered around and the occasional smell of dogs I shouldn't have had a dog. I also learned to live with puppy teething..which usually ended with something being torn up in the house. I just say move what I'm afraid of losing and life goes on. The teething stage passes.
As for the fear of fireworks..that is not uncommon with dogs..some handle it, some don't. My sweet girl I lost in April (I had her from the time she was a pup to 11 1/2) was frightened of the 4th of July. We knew it and every year we worked on finding something that would help keep her calm. The reality is, for a couple years it did get worse and worse each year. We asked the vet for medication (which I despised giving her) and then we bought a thundershirt. It helped a lot. We also learned if we kept our bathroom door open she would climb into the bathtub in her thundershirt and fall asleep till it was over. We didn't go out on the 4th..did it matter? no - looking after her was just as important as the celebration. Having to clean up isn't pleasant but things could be worse (I had one dog who wanted to dig through a wall to hide). You just accept the dog for who she is and remember that she is and always will be child like and depending on you for love and support through the difficult times. The love you get back can't be measured - it's incredible. My dog wasn't here this July 4th..it was a very hard day/night for my husband and I..although it was hard on our girl, it had become a part of our yearly routine and I missed her more than anything than night.
I guess all I'm saying is put yourself in her paws (shoes) and imagine what she's going through with all the changes and the fear of fireworks. Do research, take her for an extra walk, show her she's still important to you. And if you can't work it out, then the fair thing would be to let another family have her who can work with her and supply her with the love/attention she's craving.
I do not in any way mean to be judgemental, I just feel that dogs are family members and we have to help our family members through the difficult times.


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## Gary MOsely (Oct 7, 2018)

Thanks. It seems despite being a dog owner to a Heinz 57 scruff for 13 I’ve still got a lot to learn especially about Goldens. Since joining this forum I have learnt a lot about me as a dog owner and a bit more about particular GR traits and querks which perhaps should have been researched before the decision was made to take on Dora. ?Sophie I don’t take anything on here personally although I have been told I get defensive.☺ I take onboard your comment and value your input and I have taken the door gate off. It will take time and effort but surely that’s part of the game?!!

With regards to the fireworks we had our annual display in a field not from where I live last night and Dora is was anious initially but chose to settle on my feet with her scalf on!! Result.

We have been scheduling in play and training with the pooches and I feel more positive now(perhaps lack of sleep and patience had a part to play in my initial post).

Will we still rehome our Blond Brute? The jury is still out.

Are we going to keep at it until we have a contented pup and pack member. Most definitely!!

Thanks for all your comments and support.


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## annef (Feb 23, 2008)

There is a new drug in the UK called Silea. I haven't needed to use it but people who have found it very effective. It is for noise sensitive dogs which may help with the firework phobia. I had a baby and a puppy born within one day of one another (no I didn't breed to puppy but they both were 7 weeks when she arrived) and found they had a fantastic relationship growing up.There are times when dogs need to be separate but perhaps giving her a special toy only when she is behind a gate would help but lots of fuss and walking her put with the baby in a pushchair may also help bonding. Annef


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## Gary MOsely (Oct 7, 2018)

Play time?


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## sophieanne (Feb 4, 2014)

Gary - all the best to you and your family. I believe you and your wife will make the best decision for Dora. In the meantime I'm glad to hear the fireworks were a little less stressful and that the dreaded gate has come down ; not to say you shouldn't use it, just when it's really necessary. Thanks for writing back, I was glad to read you response/update.


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## Gary MOsely (Oct 7, 2018)

*Dora being vocal*



sophieanne said:


> Gary - all the best to you and your family. I believe you and your wife will make the best decision for Dora. In the meantime I'm glad to hear the fireworks were a little less stressful and that the dreaded gate has come down <img src="http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />; not to say you shouldn't use it, just when it's really necessary. Thanks for writing back, I was glad to read you response/update.



Hi.

I now need to work on Dora’s during baby’s feeding time. She picks up her toys and brings them to my wife while she is feeding. My wife ignores it as she thinks Dora is jealous. This then steps up a gear if ignored and Dora goes to the back door and barks constantly. The Mrs is at the end of her tether. I’ve watched her and she does eventually give up but it’s noisy and I’m not sure if ignoring her is the correct approach?


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

Your wife has wonderful insight... she does sound jealous and is demanding attention. To acknowledge any behavior is giving in to the demands. However you can teach her an alternative behavior that might make this adjustment easier.
Kikopup makes some really great youtube videos on teaching them to go to a mat. I use an inexpensive bath mat from the dollar stores.
You might offer to help with this one as she needs to be focused on the baby and hard to do both at the same time. So 1st begin the training. When she has learned to go to the mat you can practice while she is feeding the baby. When she goes to her mat (I would have it near the activity) just stand there and feed her kibble, one at a time so she is being rewarded for staying on the mat. 
This is not going to happen overnight and will need patience and lots of rewards to reinforce the desired behavior. But in a few weeks you can send her to her mat and give a self feeding type toy, say a konk with something in it, and enjoy some peace. Then take her for a quick game of fetch or chase to reward the behavior and also show her she has not been forgotten just put on a new status on the food chain. 
Good luck!!


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## Charliethree (Jul 18, 2010)

Gary MOsely said:


> Hi.
> 
> I now need to work on Dora’s during baby’s feeding time. She picks up her toys and brings them to my wife while she is feeding. My wife ignores it as she thinks Dora is jealous. This then steps up a gear if ignored and Dora goes to the back door and barks constantly. The Mrs is at the end of her tether. I’ve watched her and she does eventually give up but it’s noisy and I’m not sure if ignoring her is the correct approach?


My senior boy brings me a 'gift' (a toy) if I am busy, or doing something with the other dogs, I don't perceive it as jealousy, but simply a polite request for some attention and to give me some of his attention. Not always convenient, but it does send a message that he wants to be with and interact with me. 

Ignoring misbehavior is only part of the program, we need to focus on teaching them what we want them 'to do' instead. 

Consider teaching Dora to go to a mat. This article may be helpful in getting you started. 

https://www.clickertraining.com/node/3308


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## Gary MOsely (Oct 7, 2018)

I’ll try that. Thanks for your help


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## Gary MOsely (Oct 7, 2018)

*Dora -Jerking on the lead for rubbish*

Hi. Just wanted to ask if any other pups out there jerk on the lead to investigate rubbish? It usually leads to nothing but disappointment with empty crisp wrappers but there was an instance where by she did the mentioned behaviour on the side of the road and caused a car to honk it’s horn as it wizzed closely passed her?
I’ve done lots of heal training with both my pooches and trust me that’s a challenge
With baby push chair in tow to add to the mix and Dora walks well and seems to understand a bit more self control when walking alongside the baby push chair but I’m concerned her jerking to scrounge will pull him over as she can be strong willed if she is on a scent.

Thanks.


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## puddles everywhere (May 13, 2016)

I can't remember but have you and Dora taken any obedience classes together? If you haven't this would really help you learn how to work as a team.

Anytime you are asking Dora to do something new it will be necessary to teach her what you expect her to do. This is just like when you went to school as a kid, no one expected you to have the skills before taking the class but they taught you what you needed to learn. I'm sure when you began working that you had some training before getting the job but even with the training every boss had different expectations on how you should do the job. 

Basically you are in uncharted waters with a new baby. Everything is going to be new for you and for Dora, you are learning and so is Dora. With every new day there are going to be new challenges. She sounds like a wonderful dog and wants to do the right thing but you must remember that she doesn't know what the right thing is yet... show her. Give her the gift of learning what behavior you want. 

It's hard to raise babies and a young dog at the same time, it's all very new for both of them. It's going to be a challenge but something you will learn with the baby is things don't always go the way you planned. Relax and enjoy the learning process of having a child. Pretty much the same for Dora, she's going to make mistakes... she has no idea how you perceive the situation or how to meet your expectations. Pretty sure mind reading isn't in her skill set  

So take a deep breath, relax and treat each new event knowing there is going to be some learning involved. Enjoy this time in your life and let go of the fear of it not going perfectly. Learn together.

FYI: to teach her how to walk with the stroller put a 5 lb bag of potatoes wrapped in a blanket in the stroller. Take Dora for a walk and let her get used to the noises a stroller makes, if she pulls it over no harm done. Give her time and when she is comfortable with walking with the stroller add baby instead of potatoes and enjoy your walk.


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## sophieanne (Feb 4, 2014)

Hi Gary...I agree that training classes may help in giving you ideas and help in getting Dora to be a great walking companion. I'm glad you're working through her issues.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.


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