# Spondylosis



## Andy's Mom (Nov 15, 2012)

My 11 year old goldie has recently been diagnosed with Spondylosis. The Vet has me in a panic. The x-rays showed 1 disk already fused, directly above his tail. There are 5 other disks that have spurs. His gait is wobbly and sometimes his feet get crossed and he'll tip over. If you don't see him walk you wouldn't know there is anything wrong. He's on Prevacox once a day and Tremmadol as needed for pain. He doesn't seem to be in any pain. He still "runs" after the squirrels in our yard and barks at our neighbors dogs. I was just wondering if anyone else has been diagnosed with this and what plan of action you have taken. We have a firm baby mattress and shrimpy bed in the living room. He stays in the house at night cause the temps are so low, but when it is nice out, like today, I leave him outside. It's supposed to be 61 here today. He has his beds available to him outside plus his dog house that has a pad and flannel sheets in it. I've read so many things online, but I would like to hear from someone who has actually been through this. Any advice, encouragement you can give would be greatly appreciated.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

My golden Finn has spondylosis. It makes me sad. He gets tramadol, gabapentin, and two adequan injections a week. I do add rimadyl if he seems very sore. He still hikes with us, but he has lost more than a step. I worry that he can fracture the bony fusing, but I think he s more stiff than in actual pain. Swimming is great, and the adequan definitely helps.


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## Andy's Mom (Nov 15, 2012)

Oh, I forgot to mention that I also have him on Glucosamine Chrondroitin supplements but the Vet said those really wouldn't help with this issue.


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

I would suggest acupuncture and laser therapy. I believe your vet is correct in G/C supplements not helping out any at this point.


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

The gabapentin is great bc any chronic pain carves neurological pathways, and gabapentin stops that.


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## Andy's Mom (Nov 15, 2012)

*Finn*



Ljilly28 said:


> My golden Finn has spondylosis. It makes me sad. He gets tramadol, gabapentin, and two adequan injections a week. I do add rimadyl if he seems very sore. He still hikes with us, but he has lost more than a step. I worry that he can fracture the bony fusing, but I think he s more stiff than in actual pain. Swimming is great, and the adequan definitely helps.


 How long ago was Finn diagnosed? How old is he? Did they say it would be ok for him to exercise? My Vet said limited exercise, I've walked him to the end of our street 3 times, but he pulls on the leash to go further. I'm like you I'm afraid of fracturing the bony fusing.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Well, we were taught in vet school that spondylosis was usually an incidental finding. Sooo since I am sitting here at work, I decided to look it up in one of the "bibles", Rhea Morgan's Handbook of Small Animal Practice. She states that it is "usually an incidental radiographic finding", "rarely osteophytes encroach on the vertebral column or spinal nerve, causing pain and deficits.". Further, she states, " treatment is usually not necessary.". And finally, "if pain or neurologic deficits are present, another condition is probably responsible.". 

When my Laney was six, she had some recurrent urinary issues...so I radiographed her abdomen. Well, her spine was included and it was nose to tail spondylosis.. To be complete, I had a specialist ultrasound her bladder. When she saw the radiograph, she remarked that she had the organs of a six year old and the spine of a twelve year old. I don't think she had gotten her UD yet. She continued to compete because she lived for the training. But she died in October 2006, would have been 12 in January 2007, was never on rimadyl, only dasuquin and fish oil and was still jumping in the Rally Excellent class two weeks before her splenic tumor ruptured...

Spondylosis is not always awful... Laney showed neither pain nor neuro deficits...


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## AmberSunrise (Apr 1, 2009)

My Rowdy was disgnosed with this a few years before he died. He received Adequan injections. Metacam was given as needed and he was on GlycoFlex throughout his life (as are all my adult dogs). Rowdy also had chiropractic and acupuncture treatments pretty much until he died, plus physical therapy to keep him limber while he was still running agility (water work, under water treadmilling etc). 

He had a good quality of life until Larangeal Paralysis surgery led to the aspiration pneumonia that killed him. He would occassionally stumble but probably not more often than once every couple of months at that was with daily hiking.

ETA: I would have to agree that it is frequently an incidental finding - Rowdy's was found when we XRayed to find out why his neck had limited range of motion. Until the XRay, we thought 'just' arthritis, and the treatment really did not change once dx'd.


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## Andy's Mom (Nov 15, 2012)

Sally's Mom said:


> Well, we were taught in vet school that spondylosis was usually an incidental finding. Sooo since I am sitting here at work, I decided to look it up in one of the "bibles", Rhea Morgan's Handbook of Small Animal Practice. She states that it is "usually an incidental radiographic finding", "rarely osteophytes encroach on the vertebral column or spinal nerve, causing pain and deficits.". Further, she states, " treatment is usually not necessary.". And finally, "if pain or neurologic deficits are present, another condition is probably responsible.".
> 
> When my Laney was six, she had some recurrent urinary issues...so I radiographed her abdomen. Well, her spine was included and it was nose to tail spondylosis.. To be complete, I had a specialist ultrasound her bladder. When she saw the radiograph, she remarked that she had the organs of a six year old and the spine of a twelve year old. I don't think she had gotten her UD yet. She continued to compete because she lived for the training. But she died in October 2006, would have been 12 in January 2007, was never on rimadyl, only dasuquin and fish oil and was still jumping in the Rally Excellent class two weeks before her splenic tumor ruptured...
> 
> Spondylosis is not always awful... Laney showed neither pain nor neuro deficits...


I've read that it's usually an incidental finding, but I specifically asked the Vet to check his spine because another Vet said it was hip dysplasia, but I read online about it and he didn't have the symptoms of that. I'm at a loss of what to do. A person trusts their Vet to do what they can, but if Andy is being misdiagnosed.... I've also read that Spondylosis usually doesn't have any symptoms. I'm running out of money....fast! I've had him to the Vet twice this week. Bless his heart...he HATES the Vet. I guess I'm going to have to take another course of action. Thank you so very much for your post.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

GoldenCamper said:


> I would suggest acupuncture and laser therapy. I believe your vet is correct in G/C supplements not helping out any at this point.


 
My senior Copper had spondylosis. HIs ortho vet said he had done everything he could so with the recommendation of forum members (including GC:smooch, I took him to a holistic vet. He walked noticeably better after his very first treatment of acupuncture and laser light therapy.

It sure sounded like black magic voodoo to my engineer minded self, but Copper went from trotting agitatedly on his front legs while strolling on his back legs to walking pretty normally immediately.


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## GoldenMum (Mar 15, 2010)

My 12 year old boy has severe arthritis in his back and right hip. He gets laser therapy and an adequan injection once a month, along with a dose of gabapentin daily. He is once again enjoying 45 minute hikes through the woods at our environmental center. It has greatly improved his quality of life!


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## Andy's Mom (Nov 15, 2012)

Sally's Mom said:


> Well, we were taught in vet school that spondylosis was usually an incidental finding. Sooo since I am sitting here at work, I decided to look it up in one of the "bibles", Rhea Morgan's Handbook of Small Animal Practice. She states that it is "usually an incidental radiographic finding", "rarely osteophytes encroach on the vertebral column or spinal nerve, causing pain and deficits.". Further, she states, " treatment is usually not necessary.". And finally, "if pain or neurologic deficits are present, another condition is probably responsible.".
> 
> When my Laney was six, she had some recurrent urinary issues...so I radiographed her abdomen. Well, her spine was included and it was nose to tail spondylosis.. To be complete, I had a specialist ultrasound her bladder. When she saw the radiograph, she remarked that she had the organs of a six year old and the spine of a twelve year old. I don't think she had gotten her UD yet. She continued to compete because she lived for the training. But she died in October 2006, would have been 12 in January 2007, was never on rimadyl, only dasuquin and fish oil and was still jumping in the Rally Excellent class two weeks before her splenic tumor ruptured...
> 
> Spondylosis is not always awful... Laney showed neither pain nor neuro deficits...


So, if this were your dog, would you have a 3rd opinion? I'm not made of money, but if I'm treating him for the wrong thing I want to know. Like I said in my earlier post, if you didn't see him walk, you wouldn't know anything was wrong. His eyes are still bright he's perky...all the golden traits


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## Andy's Mom (Nov 15, 2012)

Andy's feet sometimes get tangled up with each other and he tips over. Nothing serious, and he'll get back up and keep walking. His gait is exaggerated. He's never yelped out in pain. Does this describe anything that your "baby" goes through?


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

Andy's Mom said:


> Andy's feet sometimes get tangled up with each other and he tips over. Nothing serious, and he'll get back up and keep walking. His gait is exaggerated. He's never yelped out in pain.


We walk sometimes with a Great Pyrenees that is the same way. Acupuncture has her going on 11yrs of age. That girl can still walk a mile.


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## Andy's Mom (Nov 15, 2012)

GoldenCamper said:


> We walk sometimes with a Great Pyrenees that is the same way. Acupuncture has her going on 11yrs of age. That girl can still walk a mile.


Do they know what causes it?


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## GoldenCamper (Dec 21, 2009)

Andy's Mom said:


> Do they know what causes it?


Probably age and genetics. My boy passed at 13yrs 3 months of age with a perfect spine.


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## heureuse_jesuis (Oct 10, 2012)

*Ryley wye input*

My Ryles had an X-ray a few years back to check out his knee which he injured while playing snowballs. In that X-ray she noted that he had spondylosis of the lower spine.

Our choice of vet was holistic in fundamentals and conventional when need be. What she recommended and we followed was chiro adjustments, laser and some acupuncture. We did this, numerous subsequent visits initially until he was "normal" again and then moved on to maintenance. Chiro every 4 weeks.

Ryley never fell over until this last year ( about 6 months before he passed) - I suspect he had some degenerative myelopathy happening. As he would fall and also knuckle his hind end and weakness. I did some rehab with him to get him to lift his feet and remember that he has back legs.

I am not vet, that is for sure. Ryley was 13 and as most doggies, he had arthritis and the spondylosis. He too still tried to jump and buck and play, he seemed to tire faster.

I would suggest as other, try some chiro, laser and acupuncture. I suspect the falling over is from something else and with chiro laser and acupuncture, he may "loosen up" and be a little more steady on his feet.

We did not use pain medication until the last month of his life when he started not being able to climb or descend stairs. Again I cannot say that was from anything in particular. We had Ryles on a number of supplements over the years including Recovery SA, Biologic Vets Senior, Fats, Vites. Did they make a difference? I don't know, there was no other Ryley to have on placebos. 

The cost of laser is pretty reasonable here in BC along with chiro and acupuncture. 

I am sorry the costs are adding up, I too would be wanting to know what is going on. If you wish more chit chat, please pm me.

At the end of the day, look at your handsome boy and do what is best for his quality of life, if it happens to be a little laser (some doggies love the heat) then that is what makes him better.


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## coppers-mom (Jan 9, 2009)

If you do a search in the senior section, you will find a lot of recommendations for treatments of seniors' gait and spine issues.

I also used a heating pad and massager on Copper on a daily basis. Another member's vet recommended a cold pack for her senior. I never thought to use one on Copper, but do now use them on my back since I have stenosis, bone spurs, degenerated discs (general old age itis) and find that the cold helps a lot. I went to PT and one of the things they did for me was chiropractic adjustments, but due there being some sort of disjunction along Copper's spine they were not comfortable doing that for him.

I strongly recommend you try some laser light therapy or acupuncture and see if it makes a difference. It is non-invasive and can't hurt as far as I can tell and I do know it helped Copper, Tucker, Toby, Barkley, Toby and Clyde on here that I can remember off the top of my head.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

Well, I am not a neurologist... But it sounds like he has proprioceptive deficits(loses track of where his feet are)... Many dogs in that situation are not in pain...sometimes it is due to degenerative myelopathy... According to the textbook I quoted from the condition(spondylosis) is non inflammatory, so in theory NSAID's won't help. However, with an old dog, the NSAID's help the other areas where there is arthritis... The only way to know for sure would be to do a huge work up with a neurologist...


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## heureuse_jesuis (Oct 10, 2012)

*Bedding input*

Sorry missed that part. We had orthopedic foam beds for Ryley in the house. I was told to keep him warm, he was never an outside boy. As with humans, I think the cold is very hard on arthritis. Can he stay in more often then in the yard?

You may also try luke warm heating pads on his back - and some massage of the muscles as they are probably working overtime.


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## Sally's Mom (Sep 20, 2010)

I have also seen acupuncture to be useful for various spinal issues.


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## heureuse_jesuis (Oct 10, 2012)

Hi sally's mom - seems like we think alike too..


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## quilter (Sep 12, 2011)

Both of my collies had this. Whether it was the actual source of their problems or not, they were both stiff, weak in the back end, and in pain. My first collie, that was back before we had access to the pain meds we have now. She didn't seem to be so much in pain as she was weak. She quit going upstairs, and then wouldn't go downstairs. We live near Seattle. Everything is built on a hill and has stairs. Those were tough years. My second collie. We had more access to pain meds, but he didn't tolerate much of anything beyond his kibble. He was able to take a low dose of rimadyl and we had tramadol for really bad days. We mostly managed his pain by managing his environment. He was particularly sensitive to commotion. As long as there was peace in the house, he was doing OK. We kept him out of the car and tried to avoid the vet as much as possible. Both were physically and emotionally stressful (he was a sweet but timid guy). We lost him to a tumor on his eye when he was 12. The stress of removing it was too great for him (the anesthesia, car trips, manhandling at the vet, etc.). Wow, I just still miss him.


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## Andy's Mom (Nov 15, 2012)

heureuse_jesuis said:


> Sorry missed that part. We had orthopedic foam beds for Ryley in the house. I was told to keep him warm, he was never an outside boy. As with humans, I think the cold is very hard on arthritis. Can he stay in more often then in the yard?
> 
> You may also try luke warm heating pads on his back - and some massage of the muscles as they are probably working overtime.


Yes, he has been staying in, but he looked so unhappy this AM when I told him he had to come back in so I set up his "stuff" outside. I checked on him at lunch and put one of his beds back in the house, but left his shrimpy outside. He didn't want to come back in. I'll be home before the temperature drops. I know the cold makes it worse, but it was so pretty outside. And he slept so much yesterday when I left him in that he didn't sleep well last night, which meant I didn't sleep well  I've been on youtube to see how to massage a dog and will try that along with all of the other WONDERFUL recommendations. Thanks to all of you!


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## Andy's Mom (Nov 15, 2012)

quilter said:


> Both of my collies had this. Whether it was the actual source of their problems or not, they were both stiff, weak in the back end, and in pain. My first collie, that was back before we had access to the pain meds we have now. She didn't seem to be so much in pain as she was weak. She quit going upstairs, and then wouldn't go downstairs. We live near Seattle. Everything is built on a hill and has stairs. Those were tough years. My second collie. We had more access to pain meds, but he didn't tolerate much of anything beyond his kibble. He was able to take a low dose of rimadyl and we had tramadol for really bad days. We mostly managed his pain by managing his environment. He was particularly sensitive to commotion. As long as there was peace in the house, he was doing OK. We kept him out of the car and tried to avoid the vet as much as possible. Both were physically and emotionally stressful (he was a sweet but timid guy). We lost him to a tumor on his eye when he was 12. The stress of removing it was too great for him (the anesthesia, car trips, manhandling at the vet, etc.). Wow, I just still miss him.


I am so sorry for your loss. And for others on the posts that have lost their loved ones.


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## Andy's Mom (Nov 15, 2012)

Sally's Mom said:


> Well, I am not a neurologist... But it sounds like he has proprioceptive deficits(loses track of where his feet are)... Many dogs in that situation are not in pain...sometimes it is due to degenerative myelopathy... According to the textbook I quoted from the condition(spondylosis) is non inflammatory, so in theory NSAID's won't help. However, with an old dog, the NSAID's help the other areas where there is arthritis... The only way to know for sure would be to do a huge work up with a neurologist...


After reading this and more on the internet, I did a google search "Symptoms of Degenerative Myelopathy". The 5th item down has a video of a white dog, I believe he's GSD that walks just like my Andy does. He shows no sign of pain, just like my Andy. Andy doesn't sit on his hip, or drag it like this little guy does at the beginning, but everything else is just the same. Thank you so very much for your imput. I have picked up Andy's records and digital x-rays from his Vet and will be taking him to another Vet that treats DM. I know DM is bad and there is no cure, but I need to know that I am treating him properly. He's a good boy and deserves the best. Thank you.


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