# I feel like I don't know my dog anymore



## Sienna's Mom (Oct 23, 2007)

Today was a very hectic day... not in the best mood to begin with. My husband went to a meeting and I was giving our son dinner. After dinner I let Sienna out of the crate and was giving her nuzzles and scratches as DS did his nightly requirement of reading.

Sienna walks away from me down the hall and comes back with a ripped piece of paper (luckily from the trash, but I didn't know it at the time) I run to get it away from her and she hides under the computer table. I tried to get her out and lost it a bit and yelled "OUT!". She barred her teeth and growled at me! :bawling:

There is no food involved here (like before), I had already taken the paper away from her. I re-arranged my position to her and re-ordered OUT. She ran back into the living room, grabbed a paper airplane of my sons and ripped it to shreds.

I went and got a treat, told her "crate" she went in and I gave her the treat and closed the door- I needed a time out. I know you all said no crating for discipline, but I was sick to my stomach and needed to cool down. She did get the treat and I didn't leave her in there for long.

Why is my dog doing this??? I have always been so proud of her, she is SO sweet and loving, this SO unlike her, but I feel she is changing before my eyes...All I can think of is she felt cornered??? Normally her grabbing things is an attention getting behavior, but I had been giving her loves and scratches when she went and did this.

What am I doing wrong? Why is she changing? or is she? I am heartsick thinking that I feel I don't really know her or wonder about her which I never did before. I know I am being naive, but I always felt so proud of how she was, and now..... 

Please be nice, I need hugs, not scoldings... all this is new to us.... I have been having a hard time lately, suffering from burn out and a bit depressed:vomit:


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## Argos' Mom (Jun 2, 2008)

I don't have any answers for you. Argos has never been aggressive. With all of his current owies he's a bit growly but it's just a low mumble like he's saying leave me alone. He's never been mean and I'm just summing it up to the fact that with these hot spots, sores, and the itchies, he doesn't want to be bothered.

I really hope that someone can help you with some answers. It sounds like you need some Mom time to relax. I've had a crazy day myself. In fact I told my oldest son, "When I grow up, I'm living alone!" like off of Home Alone. I can't find a hug smiley but know I'm sending you hugs. Get a good nights rest and maybe you can look at this with a clear head tomorrow. I'm always here if you need to just vent.


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## Celeigh (Nov 29, 2007)

How old is Sienna now? 

This reminds me of Fergus's zoomies. He can get destructive when he's wound up. Taking something away from him while he is in a state can result in bodily harm to me, but it's not out of anger, it's that he is out of control and happens to be a big boy with teeth. I think you are on to something that she felt threatened and cornered. Maybe someone with training experience can give you some tips for getting her to drop whatever is in her mouth instead of needing to chase her down.

Hugs from us! It's rough when you have an out of character moment with the dogs and can't reason with them. I think you did the right thing by giving her (and you too!) a time out break. She needed to know that the game was over and you needed a break from her antics. Hang in there!


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## spruce (Mar 13, 2008)

if it was young Bridger, I would think he was "testing" me -- I would be very, very angry with him (no treats, no hugs until he showed he was sorry - you know, the head down, snuggle up stuff).


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## mdoats (Jun 7, 2007)

I'm so sorry. I haven't had Rookie growl at me, but I have definitely had him grab a piece of paper or a kleenex out of the trash and not want to give it to me. I use the sweetest happiest voice I can and tell him to drop it. I use my play voice. When I'm frustrated, I may be cursing at him and calling him names, but I do it in my most playful voice! He will pretty much always come to me and drop it. As long as I use the happy voice. If I raise my voice, he heads in the other direction. The cursing makes me feel better and the happy voice gets him to drop whatever he has in his mouth.

Any chance she thought you were playing with her? Especially if you were physically trying to get at her. The fact that she ran off and got another piece of paper is what makes me think she may have been trying to play.

Oh, and there's nothing wrong with using the crate when you need a time out. I've done it before. And you did the right thing by giving her a treat so that she didn't view it as punishment.


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## mdoats (Jun 7, 2007)

Oh yeah, Rookie also gets petted and praised when he drops it. No matter how ticked off I actually am.


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

By any chance have you had her thyroid checked? Full panel...sent out. No matter what the Vet says.

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/bizarre_behavior.htm

I wish you luck......hopefully it's something simple.


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## colton (Jun 5, 2008)

Gosh I do feel bad for you. I think time out in the crate is a good thing in this case...sometimes the human needs time to cool down too. I have never used the crate as punishment before but that doesn't mean I won't if "I" need the time out. 

I know what you mean with "not knowing your dog anymore", have had the same feeling with a previous dog. I found in my case we BOTH needed some retraining.....I had got slack in setting boundaries etc and of course my dog just took over. Not saying this is it in your case though. 

Hope you get back on track and feel better soon, sometimes us moms need a break from EVERYTHING and EVERYONE, we do work a 24/7 job that is totally unappreciated!


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## Goldilocks (Jun 3, 2007)

Ardeagold said:


> By any chance have you had her thyroid checked? Full panel...sent out. No matter what the Vet says.
> 
> http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/bizarre_behavior.htm
> 
> I wish you luck......hopefully it's something simple.



This is exactly what I was going to suggest. How old is Sienna and has she had a complete thyroid panel. 

Pippa had a 180 degree personality change last summer shortly after her spay. She was being very lethargic and also very irritable and actually bit our other dog requiring surgery when he tried to take a toy away from her. The irritability continued and I was devastated and contacted a behaviorist. The behaviorist suggested the thyroid test before meeting with us and as much as my vet balked at the idea he did eventually concede and also comment that her coat wasn't really coming in very well. So we did the test and she was very low normal. She's been on meds since the beginning of Sept. 07 and we have a "normal" happy dog again. Pippa had a hard time having her litter of puppies and lost quite a bit of weight feeding them. I could not get weight on this girl until she started being medicated for her thyroid. It's like her whole body was ill and she felt horrible all the time which is why she was probably irritable.


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## Sienna's Mom (Oct 23, 2007)

Thank you so much everyone, today is a new day, though I still feel frazzled. Sienna is such a sweetheart dog and I was always so proud at her attitude. I must admit it I felt very defeated that we have had these two incidences- she is 18 months old and is always eager to please and be loved, but also totally rambunctious always wanting to play.

I will look into the thyroid panel, but I also am thinking since these are essentially isolated incidences and not a complete personality change, I am going to address the situations as they presented themselves- With the first one: growling and not wanting to be removed from under the coffee table while we were eating-we have put her in her crate at meals and hope to see how she does when we finally get a new dinning table, so meals won't be at nose level. I want to treat this as a sort of food guarding- though she never did this before- we can still take bones away from her- she is probably trying to stand/test her ground.

While I don't excuse her behavior in ANY WAY, last night she was under my computer table which is closed in from all sides but the front. I was standing in front of her loudly yelling OUT! she really had nowhere to go and probably felt threatened/cornered.

As I said I have been feeling burnt out and depressed, so I probably was a bit overly emotional. I've only got one child (also rambunctious :uhoh, but I do have a furry child who follows me all over the house... I don't see how you all do it with more- my husband is really hands on, but his schedule is not the norm and I am on my own a lot. It does make me annoyed at myself as I know I don't have it as crazy as others.

At any rate, sorry to be such a basket case, bit embarrassing. :uhoh:


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## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

I think you could be right on about her feeling cornered .. if you were giving a harsh comman while she had no escape route, growling might have been her way of letting you know she was trapped and scared ... I would just be really aware of backing her into areas she can't get out of! You are going to be great ((hugs))


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

Don't feel bad for asking for help and venting here. This is the place for it. We are all here for you even if we haven't had the same situation.
When we thought Gunner had a tumor and might lose his eye, I was a basket case. It was the people here who really helped and supported me. The same with his thyroid issue.
So hang in there. I'd get her thyroid checked and also have you done an obedience class with her?


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## Jersey's Mom (Nov 25, 2007)

There's a common thread between both of your incidents... in both cases Sienna was in a small, confined space (even though the coffee table was likely open to her sides and behind her, she may not have fully realized that) and you/your husband/whoever was (okay I'm assuming a little but bear with me) leaning down in front of the obvious exit, speaking harshly/loudly, and likely making direct eye contact with her. My best guess is that in both cases she felt threatened and cornered... and growled in hopes of getting you to back off to "protect" herself (in quotes because you and I both know she will never need to truly protect herself from you). Go ahead and get the thyroid panel done... it definately can't hurt, and it's a good thing to know... but I would also look into working with a trainer or looking into some books or videos or something that will help teach you a better way of dealing with her when she gets herself in a tight spot. It takes time to learn how to communicate effectively with your dog... it's often counterintuitive... so don't worry about needing to ask for help, we all do!

Julie and Jersey


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## mdoats (Jun 7, 2007)

Sienna's Mom said:


> she is 18 months old and is always eager to please and be loved, but also totally rambunctious always wanting to play.


You might notice a big change if you increase her daily exercise in addition to some of the other things you are trying. Rookie is 17 months old and he's a great dog. But he can be a real brat if he's underexercised. He requires two good walks, some play time, and at least one short training session every day. If he gets that, he's calm, and sweet, and well behaved. If he doesn't get enough exercise, he may try to grab my shoes or go digging in the trash can or just generally look for some kind of trouble.

If she's usually rambunctious right before dinner time, try adding in another 15-20 minute walk right before dinner. Even just taking her out and around the block can make a difference.



Sienna's Mom said:


> At any rate, sorry to be such a basket case, bit embarrassing. :uhoh:


Oh my gosh, there's nothing to be embarrassed about!! All of us who live with and love young dogs have had at least one of those moments. This board has gotten me through a few of those moments.


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

Weren't you, until recently walking her every day to drop your son off at camp and to pick him up? If so, she may be acting out because she needs more exercise. Danny starts acting up if I don't walk him every day and take him for at least one off leash run a week.


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## Gwen (Aug 9, 2007)

It sounds like Sienna is trying to be the Alpha dog. You might want to do some reading about the "pack" theories or there are TV shows about this. You have to be the Alpha dog even though you feel like a dog right now. 

Just remember that we're here for you!!!!! ::


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

I agree with the thoughts about her feeling cornered. I've noticed that with Riley when he squeezes in between the wall and my drafting table. He moves the table and I can't have him doing that while I'm working, so if he gets in there before I can stop him, I have to order him out of there. I've noticed that if I just stand back and call him, he's fine. But if I get too close to him, he starts to get a defensive posture - head down and just gives me that look that says "back off." He's never bared teeth or growled, but I imagine if I pushed the issue, he just might.

If she gets herself into that position again, try luring her out with something better than what she's trying to keep away from you. A favorite treat, or something. I know a lot of people say that it's bribery and not really training (and they're probably right) but sometimes when the situation is already at a difficult point, ya gotta do what ya gotta do! I always figure it's better to bribe them and avoid a stressful, damaging situation for both of you!

I was thinking the same thing about her exercise. I've found with mine that stealing things is usually attention-seeking behavior and it usually happens when they're bored and/or have too much pent-up energy.
You mentioned that you've been a little burned out lately. Have you cut back on her exercise and playtime because of it? If so, she could be frustrated and acting out.

Hang in there! I think most of us have gone through some rough patches with the furkids.


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## Auretrvr (May 6, 2008)

*Adolescent?*

Our Henry is 16 months. Although he has been a very good pup, he is high energy. We exercise him religiously and hold our ground with the pack expectations. He used to drop like a rock at street crossings when we walk. Now, he sits about half the time on his own. The rest of the time he acts like a snotty pup "I don't want to sit right now, thank you very much!" We just wait him our or place him. Lots of praise when he gets it. He also goes nuts to get at people he thinks will pet him. As long as he gets exercise, training and love, we know we just need to wait this out. Our vet says, "They grow their bodies the first year, their coats the second year and their brains the 3rd year." He is a lovable goof.

Make a list of all the things your pup is good at. I remind myself that Henry doesn't eat shoes or furniture (or the kitties). He walks on a loose leash (even though a passing squirrel or rabbit garner every _shred_ of his focus), never counter surfs, sits and waits politely for permission to eat etc, etc. I can put cheese on his paws when he is in a down and he wont take it until released. Now _that_'s self control! Of course we want more...in time, in time.


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## genejockey (Jul 3, 2008)

One thing I did with Rhyo when he was younger, and like Sienna seems to be, pushing the boundaries, was to do something to both remind him who's alpha, AND give him the attention he so craved. 15 minutes of practicing commands and being praised or corrected (as appropriate) and all was right in his world - he knew he was loved, he knew who was the boss, and he knew what the expectations were. Dogs seem to thrive when their world makes sense, and conversely, to grow sullen when it doesn't.

Maybe a training session, or a walk on which you keep her under close control. Especially at times like this, it might be good to proctice "Drop it!", and praise and reward her extravagantly for complying. And it give you a chance to practice the two "voices" - the high-pitched praise voice, and the low, warning "NO!" bark. Use of a slip collar and leash is very helpful.


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## Sienna's Mom (Oct 23, 2007)

fostermom said:


> Weren't you, until recently walking her every day to drop your son off at camp and to pick him up?


Wow, you have a good memory . First of all thanks again for all of your responses and hugs- you have no idea how much better it made me feel :

Yes, I was taking Sienna out every morning and evening to drop off/pick up my son from his camp, and I could tell she was loving it.

School starts on the 2nd and I was apprehensive about the change in routine, I think I even posted on it. I won't be able to walk her in the *mornings* because I have to get to work and his school is too far, especially once the weather starts to deteriorate. I can't leave DS and go for a walk in the mornings- he is too young still (DH is already at work at 4:00am!) I *WILL* be trying to get up earlier (sigh) and run her around in the backyard before it starts really pouring everyday (Portland,OR) if I don't drive the neighbors crazy.

So, back to the Tuesday "incident". This whole week has been very rainy (a bit out of character even for Portland!) and we haven't been able to take Sienna in a.m., I've had to drive and drop off DS on my way to work. The thing is DH has been on reserve lately and has been home many days by 11:00 or so and is VERY good about getting her out and about, so I thought it would be okay.... We did have DS's first soccer practice that night though.

It seems Sienna thrives on a routine. She gets to play with DH, but not as much with me (and I am not at all happy about that). I'm not looking forward to when school starts, weather goes crap and DH is shouldering the holiday rush and working a full day-he's a cargo pilot.:uhoh::doh:

I guess I need to start a post for winter exercise ideas. I have already started DS rolling the ball for her-getting her to drop it etc, but it seems I need to "train" my son as well as he gives up too easily and won't stick to a routine, especially if Sienna decides she wants to CHEW the ball, not retrieve.

P.S. I need to type faster LOL, I posted this and there were a few MORE replies! I am going to look into some one on one training sessions and read up on all those books I got. I agree about the alpha. I will also look into NILIF (Nothing in Life is Free)- that will be hard when I know she loves to cuddle and heaven knows I do!!

Sorry this got so long!


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## fostermom (Sep 6, 2007)

YOu know, with Danny, he does much better with his exercise, but if I don't have time to walk them in the morning, then I do like I did tonight. I take each of them out by themselves and do a very short walk working on their obedience skills. Tonight was "heeling" and they were all exhausted afterwards because of the mental stimulation. If it has been raining a lot, I play hide and seek with treats hidden all over the house. They are tired, and satisfied once they find all of the goodies. The funny thing is, they all go as a pack rather than "every man for himself". That means that one dog, mainly Jasmine, gets the majority of the treats. LOL


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## LifeOfRiley (Nov 2, 2007)

Sienna's Mom said:


> I guess I need to start a post for winter exercise ideas.


I think that's a fantastic idea!! I could use some ideas myself.


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