# We just want a dog. Why is this so hard?



## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

you guys seem like awesome potential owners ... I really urge you to apply at other breed specific rescues - many, like the one I work with will really look at your individual situation and work with you on finding the right dog. 
I know it is frustrating hang in there! 

here is a link to Golden rescues by state so you can see other places to apply. Maybe call one of the rescue people at one of them and talk to them about your situation, I bet they could offer some tips and maybe even work with you!!!
http://www.grca-nrc.org/Localrescues.htm


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

Welcome to the forum. And you're right, finding the right dog should not be so difficult. Sad that the rescue group won't let you adopt because of your daughter's twice-yearly asthma flare-ups, especially since they aren't related to dogs. Usually rescues want to know if anyone in the household is allergic to animals, but your case surprises me. I undertand you frustration, but please do not buy a puppy from a pet store. They are invariably the product of puppy mills. Do you have an animal shelter nearby where you can look for a dog? I know some people on the forum who got their golden from a craigslist ad, and he's a great dog. Any other rescues in your area? We learn of goldens and golden mixes all the time on the forum who need a good home. I'd bet the GRF members can come up with some ideas that will work for you.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

There are some breeders here in Ontario (maybe even NJ) who have pups. Someone here will know of a breeder close to you!
You sound like a serious responsible person who would be a great dog companion!
I am so sorry your local rescue reacted that way. I suppose they have too much experience with dogs being returened due to allergies/asthma. I have them myself but wouldn't give up my goldens!
GOOD LUCK!


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

I'm sorry you ran into some roadblocks with rescue - how many groups did you contact? You can definetly widen your search area at shelters to include any number of shelters in the South - as long as the dog is vetted and what you are looking for the transportation to your area can be easily arranged for approx $150. Most shelters do not have the higher adoption fees so the cost would be about the same. Quite a few different rescue groups come to mind but I don't know of which ones you've already tried.


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## honeysmum (Dec 4, 2007)

Hi Allen, I am sorry to read how hard it has been for you and your family to find a pup, I amalso sorry that I can be of no help as I live in the UK I am sure that you will get some help and information from other members, just want to say welcome and good luck in your search.


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## Kiki_Michigan (Jul 14, 2008)

It sounds like a lucky dog is in your future. I just wanted to say I understand where you're coming from. I looked on petfinder almost daily for around a year. We found several we were interested in but they were always gone before we had a chance. Also, I understand the rescues wanting to make sure the animals find forever homes but sometimes the restrictions they place on adoption are way too strict. For instance we don't have our yard completely fenced in yet but we will and many rescues wouldn't have adopted to us for this reason. 

Anyway, I got so lucky to find my puppy Trooper on petfinder. Like I said, I searched everyday and vowed that I would not hesitate to call this time. A lady had 5 golden retriever puppies and I was the third call. I drove 3 hours to pick him up and I feel like it was fate. He is the perfect puppy for us.

Good luck!! I also think craigslist is a great option. Definately don't go to the petstore. I hope you find your perfect dog soon.









My rescue pup!


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## honeysmum (Dec 4, 2007)

Wow I type slow there was not any replies when I started LOL


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## Ljilly28 (Jan 22, 2008)

I have read all Jon Katz' s books, and so have a picture in my imagination of your neighborhood complete w/ Stanley& Julius, the labs. You have to have a dog if you live at the Katz house!


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## spruce (Mar 13, 2008)

I'm the proud & happy owner of a Craiglist goldie. This guy is so great if I had to give a breeder recommendations I'd be saying "Craigslist". Lots of neat dogs needing homes due to forclosures, forced moves, etc. I know Craiglist can be a "iffy" place to "shop", so be cautious. 
You can place an add, too.

(there's a l.5 y/o goldie on N. Jersey Craigslist now -- what age are you looking for?)


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## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

I know some great dogs come from Craigslist but I would encourage you to try some more rescues first only because you would be able to get an honest evaluation of the dogs temperament from the foster mom or dad. Craigslist posters are often (not always) trying to dump problem dogs and will not tell you exactly what you are getting into and you have no option to return to a reputable rescue if the dog has problems your family can't deal with. With kids in the house I would just be leery of CL dogs, not that there is anything wrong with them!!!


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

http://www.dvgrr.org/ ..............


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

Wow. Thanks so much for the lightning fast response, the support and the good advice.

First off, I'm not going to the pet store, but experiences like mine (and Kiki's and many others) are the reason why they're still in business. Getting a $500 purebred today seems like a pretty nice option compared to a $1500 potential pup in six months or a $400 shelter dog. 

Spruce--I didn't see that ad for the Golden. 
I did see a listing for a dog that looks so much like Alison it breaks my heart. 










I bought one of Jon Katz's books in lieu of getting that lab puppy last September. 
I've met him a couple times and a friend uses his dog trainer. It could have been our minivan that Orson jumped on as it rolled down the street but it wasn't. We need a dog more like Stanley, just as content to sleep on the floor as to fetch a ball.

best
Allen


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## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

I'm glad you are feeling better about it! Not all rescues have fees that are that high! And remember they have been paying for their medical treatment, including the spay/neuter you would have had to pay for otherwise. 
I tell ya, I'd be paying 10xs the amount to a good breeder or a rescue before I walked into a pet store ... you are so right thou, people just can't see how important it is to stay out of those places and some of them make it financially do-able for everyone
I really hope you stick around! you should visit the rescue portion of this forum and post what you are looking for, lots of great rescue ladies would jump at the chance to help as we are ALWAYS trying to save Goldens before they are put down. They have also been known to put together some pretty long distance trasports if you fell in love!


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## PeanutsMom (Oct 14, 2007)

Craigslist is where I got two out of my three pups. Buddy has issues jumping on people when they first get here, but that is the extent of his issues. Peaches, on the other hand, turned out to be pregnant, full of parasites, and underweight, but she is now pretty much perfect. What I'm saying is craigslist can go either way, but neither me nor my family would go back and change that we got those two. They are awesome.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

> I know some great dogs come from Craigslist but I would encourage you to try some more rescues first only because you would be able to get an honest evaluation of the dogs temperament from the foster mom or dad. Craigslist posters are often (not always) trying to dump problem dogs and will not tell you exactly what you are getting into and you have no option to return to a reputable rescue if the dog has problems your family can't deal with.


Exactly my concern. I'm a little worried even about rescue dogs because of potential behavioral problems. We don't need genius dog, but we do want one that will be friendly with strangers, walk on a leash, won't try to run away, and will trainable enough to be controlled through commands, not brute force. 

FWIW, I really don't care a bit about the money. I spend $2,000 at the vet on Alison and she only lived a few more months, and I would have spent that or more to have had her for a few months longer. 

But not everyone thinks the way I do and pet shop dog at half the price seems like a bargain.

FWIW, here's a story about the best pet shop dog in the world, who belonged to my neighbor Peter King. (Woody almost got run over after yanking the leash from Peter's hand bolting across the street the first time he saw Alison. As you can see from the pic above of her twin, she was a looker.) 

Woody was not only cool and sweet and smart, he would actually dump on command. Really. 

Find some Kleenex before you start reading this.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/peter_king/news/2002/01/21/mmqb/

That's the kind of dog I want. It shouldn't be too much to ask.

best
Allen


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I cant believe you are having so much trouble with rescues.... We are soooooooo full and have a waiting list for dogs to come in. See if any of the rescues have any puppies?


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## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

we have puppies right now

goldenrecovery.org


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## Faith's mommy (Feb 26, 2007)

i would encourage you to try more than the one rescue you did. the rescue i help out at is bursting at the seams with Labs, and i'm sure other rescues in NJ are in the same boat.

as for the allergies, i sort of understand. that's like the # 1 reason we see for dogs getting turned in. amazing how a family can develop an allergy to a dog they've had 7 years...


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## kgiff (Jul 21, 2008)

I'm sorry you're having trouble with rescues. We had a lot of issues trying to get a dog from rescue years ago so I can relate. Unfortunately, it can be a frustrating experience. 

Please don't be discouraged, the right dog is out there for you. Some pup is going to be really lucky to have a home with you.

Good luck in your search.


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## monomer (Apr 21, 2005)

I love your writing style... PLEASE!!!! stick around even if the dog you eventually find isn't exactly a Golden we can still give you lots of advice... there's never any shortage of that around here.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

Many dogs that end up in rescue aren't there because of any 'issues' or problems they have, and they're not usually 'bad' dogs. Often they are there because either their families' circumstances have changed (loss of job, foreclosure, etc.), or because their families just can't be bothered with them any more. All of my dogs have come from shelters or rescues, all but one of them as adults, and they have been great dogs. So please don't discount rescue dogs. A good rescue group will know a lot about their dogs because they live in foster homes and their foster families get to know them very well. Rescues also are committed to matching the right dog with the right family.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

Jackson'sMom said:


> Many dogs that end up in rescue aren't there because of any 'issues' or problems they have, and they're not usually 'bad' dogs. Often they are there because either their families' circumstances have changed (loss of job, foreclosure, etc.), or because their families just can't be bothered with them any more. All of my dogs have come from shelters or rescues, all but one of them as adults, and they have been great dogs. So please don't discount rescue dogs. A good rescue group will know a lot about their dogs because they live in foster homes and their foster families get to know them very well. Rescues also are committed to matching the right dog with the right family.


What you said so is true...... Im going to pick up a dog today that is being turned in because they lost there jobs and home.... This dog is in a home with 6 kids and 2 cats. 3 of mine are rescues and the biggest "issue" is one likes remotes.....


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

avincent52 said:


> Exactly my concern. I'm a little worried even about rescue dogs because of potential behavioral problems. We don't need genius dog, but we do want one that will be friendly with strangers, walk on a leash, won't try to run away, and will trainable enough to be controlled through commands, not brute force.
> 
> FWIW, I really don't care a bit about the money. I spend $2,000 at the vet on Alison and she only lived a few more months, and I would have spent that or more to have had her for a few months longer.
> 
> ...


 
That was an excellent article, he put into word what we all feel.


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## BeauShel (May 20, 2007)

Hello and Welcome,
I am so sorry you are having problems finding the right dog for your family. I know that you said the rescue wouldnt adopt to you because of your daughters asthma. Have you considered getting a letter from your doctor to explain that your daughters arllergies are not due to dog dander or hair. With so many rescues being overrun due to the economy they might reconsider. Good luck in finding a new family member, it sounds like you would be a wonderful dog parent.


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## kirst1 (May 30, 2008)

Hi there, I cant be of much help either regarding finding a dog as I am also UK based, but you and your family sound like the perfect family to adopt a dog. I cant see why you daughters twice yearly flare up of ashtma would cause any problems, especially as it isnt related to dogs....there are so many dogs out there needing homes.
Good luck in your search, and I know that when you do find your pet, you will have a long and happy life together.


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## Fransheska (Mar 9, 2008)

when i wanted to foster a puppy, the rescue interviewed me , gave me about 4 applications, inspected my house and gave me the threat of "SURPRISE INSPECTIONS". it made me open my eyes and see why many people would rather just go to a petstore, some rescues are just way to harsh. not everyone has the PERFECT home but alot of people have a good home that would make a dog happy. they turned me down because my pool didnt have a fence thing around it, even though i said the dog would never be outside unsupervised..
i went to animal control, adopted 2 puppies, raised them and found them great homes. it was alot easier 
but since you would like a golden, keep your eye out and you will find the right puppy


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

And I was rejected to adopt a golden a few years ago because I work during the day. Horror of horrors! What was especially maddening was that I had adopted a golden from this same organization a few years prior to that, and my husband at the time and I both worked all day. The volunteer who rejected my application didn't even have the courtesy to talk to me, visit my home, talk to my vet, neighbors or anybody who knew me. I was rejected on the whim of a volunteer, who sent a very cold and terse response when i inquired about the status of my application. After I complained to the board president, I was told that the group has no policy regarding people who work, yet no one was willing to do anything about the volunteer. I understand that rescue groups want to find good homes for 'their' dogs, but some are far too overly zealous. So when we adopt a rescue golden next month, it will be from Homeward Bound, not NorCal GRR. HBGRR doesn't discriminate against working people.


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## Karen519 (Aug 21, 2006)

*AVincent*

AVincent:

I sent you a private msg.

Let me know if you get it!

Karen
[email protected]


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## paula bedard (Feb 5, 2008)

I hope you find your new best friend very soon. Also, thanks for the Link, it was a very touching story. My Sam was very much the love of our lives too. We have Ike now and he couldn't be a better family member. I'm sure you'll have better luck now.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

Thanks again, everyone, especially those who have PMd.
Just so you know, I'm not ignoring you. I can't respond to PMs until I have 15 posts. (Spam protection, I assume). 

I've already followed up on a couple of possible litters. If we end up with a pup, it would be great to get one before the summer's over so the kids and my wife get a chance to bond with him/her before school starts. If that doesn't happen, we'll probably suspend the search until spring. 

Karen
I'm sure Chance will find a great home, but I think he's a little too energetic for us. 
Our dog will have to be content with a few walks, some fetch, and a good amount of sitting next to me watching me type. A pretty good life, I think, but one that would frustrate Chance, I'm afraid.

Monomer
Thanks. I'm actually a professional writer. Will type for kibble.

I think part of the problem with the rescues is that most of them have a policy about geography, and they're less likely to bend it for the sort of young, problem-free dog we're looking for.

As Clint Eastwood said: A man's gotta know his limitations. We want to be great owners (can we still use that word?) of an easy dog, rather than devoted, but frustrated owners of a high-maintenance dog. 

We're currently nursing a small chicken back to health. (Don't ask.) I don't need extra challenges in a dog or puppy.

Allen


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## metamorphosis (Apr 12, 2008)

Well then Allen...post away so you can respond. 

Go make comments about pictures or something. 

Granted, the 15 post rule is a good idea to prevent spammers from getting in I suppose. *shrugs*


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

Allen...type more...you need to get to 15 posts! LOL

You said earlier you're not specifically looking for a Golden. Would a Newf do? They're very calm (if they come from good temperament lineage), adore people and love love love children in particular, lay around making sure the floor doesn't get up and move, want nothing more than to be with you and your family, and yet can be a good protector, by virtue of size and stature alone). However, they require grooming.....they have loads of fur. (Actually, I'm just kidding, but because we have Newfs and they fit your description of your wants and needs, I just had to comment. There ARE a number of them available for adoption, if you do have an interest.)

Honestly.....I understand your frustration with rescues and breeders. But, they're all different, so don't let any one of them stop you from finding the perfect pup for you. You'll know when the time is right, and the pup/dog is right. 

Usually, out of the blue, the perfect dog comes along at the perfect time. Have faith, and don't give up!


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

I was thinking about a Chihuahua-Newf mix. No hair bred with too much hair...
The next designer dog.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

Funny that two different forumers suggested the same breeder.

Alas, she seems not to have a puppy available. 

allen


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

my eight year old daughter (the chicken owner) got back from Girl Scout Camp.

They did Rescue Dog Fun (or some such). A couple of counselors brought their dogs--dalmatian mix and bassett hound. 

Someone's trying to tell me something.

allen


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

When she got home, she said

Can we get a dog?

I said "maybe."

Can we get a dog before I'm ten.

I said "okay."

Maybe we can get one before she's nine. (her b-day is the day after Valentine's Day.)

allen


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

What does your family like to do? Hike, boat, swim, go on more town-oriented walks, hang out at home and entertain? Those things should be taken into consideration when picking a breed. Some people are very outdoorsy, and lower-keyed dogs just don't work for them. Others are more home-oriented, and high energy dogs become difficult to manage.

The Chi-Newf might be just the thing for anybody.....a "perfect" mixture of opposite ends of the spectrum! :lol: :lol:


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## embreeo (Aug 19, 2006)

*Peter King Article*

Avincent - I just finished reading the article you linked to. It was one of the most touching tributes I have ever read. I have tears running down my face. Sooooo sad, but true.


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

I have tears streaming too. I have had a few Woody's in my life. Counting the two that live with me now.
Good Luck, you'll find your Woody.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

You convinced me. I bought a male and a female Chi Neuf at the local petstore and I'm going to start breeding them in my back yard.
They've got a 90-day return policy so I'lll just wait until the puppies are born and then return the dogs for a credit on my Amex. 
Free dogs, a new business, and Membership Miles!!! 
Sweet plan!! 

Allen


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## PeanutsMom (Oct 14, 2007)

avincent52 said:


> You convinced me. I bought a male and a female Chi Neuf at the local petstore and I'm going to start breeding them in my back yard.
> They've got a 90-day return policy so I'lll just wait until the puppies are born and then return the dogs for a credit on my Amex.
> Free dogs, a new business, and Membership Miles!!!
> Sweet plan!!
> ...


LMAO! What's sad is that you may have just given some idiot an idea:doh:


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

There are no cheap petstores around here. Pet Doctor sells their dogs for $1500.and up. So why help put a puppy mill when you can buy a beautiful healthy pup from an ethical breeder or better yet, a rescue.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

I'll bet that I can get $3,000 apiece for my Chi Neufs!!! 

Of course I'll take the two meanest ones and start breeding a line of ChiNeuf attack dogs!









But seriously. Thanks for all the advice.

May have found a breeder. Alas without an available puppy. And so it goes.

I can see myself typing the same darn message same time next year. 

Or maybe I'll just break down and buy them a boa constrictor from a pet shop.

best
Allen


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## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you, please do look into some other rescues if the breeder can't find a puppy for you!


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

> What does your family like to do? Hike, boat, swim, go on more town-oriented walks, hang out at home and entertain? Those things should be taken into consideration when picking a breed. Some people are very outdoorsy, and lower-keyed dogs just don't work for them. Others are more home-oriented, and high energy dogs become difficult to manage.


We're kind of home-oriented. We live in a suburb with a small to medium sized yard, and Alison was perfectly happy to take a couple, three walks a day and bark at the mailman. 

I was lurking on the Behavior and Training page and a few of the horror stories are making me think about buying a flat-screen TV instead. 

Allen


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

avincent52 said:


> I was lurking on the Behavior and Training page and a few of the horror stories are making me think about buying a flat-screen TV instead.
> 
> Allen


Ahhh, don't be afeerd, lol....kids are much harder to raise:
Is the picture you posted of your Alison? 
I took a look at petfinder for my area and the first pupper I clicked on bears an eery resemblance....
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=11187349

I wish you much luck .... keep the faith, there is most certainly a pup out there for you :wave:


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

No, that's not Alison. It's actually a pic from that Craigslist ad. 
The dog is local and I'm sorely tempted. Here's the ad. 

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/pet/765641999.html

Alison was a very pretty dog and people would ask what breed she was.
I'd say she's a "Hot Airdale." 
Or a designer mix of a pointer and a setter: A point setter.

allen


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

If you dont mind the traveling part and cant find a breeder , there are rescues out there that will adopt out of state.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

> If you dont mind the traveling part and cant find a breeder , there are rescues out there that will adopt out of state.


I would imagine that most rescues give priority to local adoptees. And our "problem" is that they don't have much trouble placing the kind of dog we're looking for: a young, healthy dog that doesn't have health or behavioral problems. So I think an out-of-state rescue will likely be difficult. 

I love the idea of rescue/shelter dogs. 

But by definition, one of two things happened to most every rescue dog: 

a) they had an abusive or neglectful owner. 
b) they has an attentive and well-meaning owner, but a serious behavioral problem led them to give up the dog. 

There are patient and gifted owners who can find the best in any dog, and I applaud them. We're not those people. We love our animals to the moon and back, but we're not Dog Whisperers.

We know that dogs take time and attention, but we don't need to take the AP course, so to speak. We want the canine equivalent of Rocks for Jocks. Maybe that means finding the right puppy (calm, gentle, and happy) from the right breeder.

Or maybe I'll just buy the kids Guitar Hero.


allen


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

This should be post# 15 so I can actually respond to PMs. 

allen


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## sharlin (Feb 26, 2007)

avincent52 said:


> But by definition, one of two things happened to most every rescue dog:
> 
> a) they had an abusive or neglectful owner.
> b) they has an attentive and well-meaning owner, but a serious behavioral problem led them to give up the dog.
> ...


What we have found to be the case recently is that people are surrendering dogs to rescues because of financial difficulty, ie foreclosures and moves. The % of lovable, non abused dogs being surrendered to rescue has dramatically increased in the last 6 months. My Rusty was an owner surrender last year simply because "he got too big" and he is the gentlelist big boy I've ever been around.


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## Faith's mommy (Feb 26, 2007)

since you are looking for a puppy, neither of those scenarios generally apply. most of the puppies that come in to rescue are from oops breedings, from "breeders" who need to get rid of excess inventory or are strays for a variety of reasons. 

and, as Steve said, don't discount the large number of wonderful adult dogs who are now available b/c of the financial situations folks are finding themselves in - which were neither abused nor had behavior problems.

and, to be honest, based on what you listed as your wants, i'm not sure that a Golden is the best breed for your family. there are always exceptions, but they tend to be high energy dogs who aren't going to be happy sitting and watching tv with you, unless you've let them run at the park for 2 hours before that.

it actually seems, imho, that a Great Dane may be a good fit for what you are looking for.


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

avincent52 said:


> I love the idea of rescue/shelter dogs.
> 
> But by definition, one of two things happened to most every rescue dog:
> 
> ...


I disagree. I believe that most dogs in rescue are there because of their owners, not because the dogs have problems or issues. People can't be bothered with the dog, they are moving and don't want to or can't take the dog along, they lost their job and can't afford to care for the dog, the dog's elderly owner died or went into a nursing home, the owners got divorced, etc. None of my 4 goldens, all of which came from a shelter (1) or rescue (3) had any behavioral issues other than the one with thunderstorm fears (and that was manageable in California but not in Tennessee where he lived previously). 

Rescues know their dogs because they typically live in foster homes, which gives the foster family a chance to really get to know the dogs and work on anything (such as housetraining refreshers) that needs to be done. And rescues do a great job of matching dogs and people. Why? Because they care about the dogs and don't want them being returned to rescue.


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## Maggies mom (Jan 6, 2006)

I think you would be surprised at how many rescues are FULL with waiting list of dogs needing to come in...... Our rescue looks for the best home and it might be a local home or an out of state home. We do it on the dog bases....WE have adopted out of state over a local home. And I agree with Steve..most of our turn ins lately are because they lost there jobs or homes, as a matter of Fact I picked up a 3 year old boy yesterday for this very reason. We get puppies from breeders not because of Oops for the most part , but because there coats are to curly or they got to old (12 weeks old) to sell... and as others have said not all have issues..My Houdini was tied to a tree for the first year of his life.. he only issue is he likes to chew remotes...never ever used the bathroom in my house and he loves to Hold the couch down. He will play but not anything like the others.... his idea of a walk is 10 houses up the street and he turns and wants to go home... Hes 3


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## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

avincent52 said:


> I would imagine that most rescues give priority to local adoptees. And our "problem" is that they don't have much trouble placing the kind of dog we're looking for: a young, healthy dog that doesn't have health or behavioral problems. So I think an out-of-state rescue will likely be difficult.
> 
> I love the idea of rescue/shelter dogs.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry but I have to respectfully disagree. The main reasons dogs are in rescues include financial strain and people adding children to their homes and deciding they no longer want dogs. Also moving is way up there. Here is a statement from a rescue I found about this 

"
Unfortunately, many folks think dogs that end up in rescue are all genetically and behaviorally inferior. But, it is not uncommon for us to get $500-1000 dogs that have either outlived their usefulness or their novelty with impulsive owners who considered their dog a possession rather than a friend or member of the family, or simply did not really consider the time, effort and expense needed to be a dog owner. Not all breeders will accept "returns", so choices for giving up dogs can be limited to animal welfare organizations, such as rescues, or the owners trying to place their own dogs. Good rescues will evaluate the dog before accepting him/her (medically, behaviorally, and for breed confirmation), rehabilitate if necessary, and adopt the animal only when he/she is ready and to a home that matches and is realistic about the commitment necessary to provide the dog with the best home possible.


Choosing a rescue dog over a purchased pup will not solve the pet overpopulation problem (only responsible pet owners and breeders can do that), but it does give many of them a chance they otherwise would not have. But, beyond doing a "good deed", adopting a rescue dog can be the best decision and addition to the family you ever made.""


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## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

ohhh I found a great article on this (and I'm not trying to shove it down your throat, it's great if you find a puppy too!!!! I just thought we all might find it interesting)

from Healthypet.com:

Study Finds the Top 10 Reasons for Pet Relinquishment 
Every day in communities across the US a bond is broken. It's the bond between people and their pets, resulting in millions of pets being surrendered to shelters each year. And little has been known about the reasons why until now.
In a study conducted by the National Council on Pet Population Study and Policy (NCPPSP) and published in the _Journal of Applied Animal Welfare Science (JAAWS)_, researchers went into 12 selected animal shelters in the United States for one year to find out why.
The results of the study show that the top seven reasons for relinquishment for both dogs and cats are the same. "These commonalties suggest that there may be similar ways to address relinquishment in dogs and cats," says Pam Burney, NCPPSP president. "For people who work in a shelter all day, there isn't always time to look at these issues. We have impressions of what's happening, but now we have objective data that will help us develop specific programs to address the issues that have been identified."
*Top 10 Reasons for Relinquishment*

*Dogs*

Moving
Landlord not allowing pet
Too many animals in household
Cost of pet maintenance
Owner having personal problems
Inadequate facilities
No homes available for litter mates
Having no time for pet
Pet illness(es)
Biting
 
*Cats*

Moving
Landlord not allowing pet
Too many animals in household
Cost of pet maintenance
Owner having personal problems
Inadequate facilities
No homes available for litter mates
Allergies in family
House soiling
Incompatibility with other pets
Specially trained researchers completed confidential individual interviews with pet owners who were relinquishing their dogs or cats to animal shelters. Pet owners were allowed to give up to five reasons for relinquishment. Interviewers did not, however, prioritize the responses. They simply recorded them in the order stated. 
*Characteristics of Pets Being Relinquished*
In addition to the reasons for relinquishment, the study collected data on the pets being relinquished.According to the study:


The majority of the surrendered dogs (47.7%) and cats (40.3%) were between 5 months and 3 years of age.
The majority of dogs (37.1%) and cats (30.2) had been owned from 7 months to 1 year.
Approximately half of the pets (42.8% of dogs; 50.8% of cats) surrendered were not neutered.
Many of the pets relinquished (33% of dogs; 46.9% of cats) had not been to a veterinarian.
Animals acquired from friends were relinquished in higher numbers (31.4% of dogs; 33.2% of cats) than from any other source.
Close to equal numbers of male and female dogs and cats were surrendered.
Most dogs (96%) had not received any obedience training.
 
*Characteristics of Pet Owners Surrendering Pets*
During the confidential interviews, researchers also gathered data on the people surrendering the pets. "Owners represented a broad range of age, ethnicity, education, and income level, indicating continued efforts will need to reach wide and far into communities across the country," say Dr. Mo Salman, the article's senior author. 


The NCPPSP Regional Shelter Survey was designed, implemented, and analyzed by six members of the NCPPSP Scientific Advisory Committee. Regional investigators were encouraged to select shelters that were likely to be representative of those in their locations. The selection was also based on a shelter's ability to dedicate time and resources to the project. 
The publication of this article represents the first such scientific and public release of relinquishment data from the NCPPSP's ongoing research into pet population issues. "The council has undertaken several important studies to better understand the issue of unwanted companion animals. This problem cannot be solved unless we truly understand it," says Burney. "Without this new data, individuals and organizations can have a clear idea of how to approach these issues most effectively."

As with all research, there are limitations. According to the authors, "the study was designed to describe the animals submitted to shelters. Thus, this set of data has no comparison data from the general pet-owning population. Many factors undoubtedly influence pet relinquishment, and some critical factors may have be omitted. This study represents a beginning of systematic data collection to examine this complex problem. The study is not designed to deal with animals other than those entering shelters, and influences cannot be drawn beyond this population."

The National Council on Pet Population Study and Policy (NCPPSP) is a coalition of 11 of America's foremost animal organizations concerned with the issue of unwanted pets in the United States. It was established to gather and analyze reliable data that further characterize the number, origin and disposition of companion animals (dogs and cats) in the United States; to promote responsible stewardship of these companion animals; and to then recommend programs to reduce the number of surplus/unwanted pets in the United States. 

The NCPPSP is composed of the following organizations: American Animal Hospital Association; American Humane Association; American Kennel Club; American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals; American Veterinary Medical Association; Association of Teachers of Veterinary Public Health and Preventive Medicine; Cat Fanciers' Association; The Humane Society of the United States; Massachusetts Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals; National Animal Control Association; Society of Animal Welfare Administrators.


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## 3 goldens (Sep 30, 2005)

About 3 years ago my brother and his wife wanted to adopt a puppy in Austin. They were both in early40s, have a very nice home with a green belt running behind them--full of trees. Their yard is fenced. He has been around and owned dogs his entire life, and she most of her life. They had lost their pure dalmatian to spinal degeneration and their Bassett to cancer. Plus she had an eye problem that required daily drops since she was a puppy.

He is with the Austin fire department, she works for an insurance company, make good money, and have never cut back on any vet bills--always up to date on heartworm meds, the dal had two breast removed due to cancer, was on expensive drugs for her spine condition, when they went out of town the dogs were left at her parents (fenced yard, etc. Their children were 12 and 17. They wren turned down because both worked. never mind that had both worked when they had gotten all their other dogs thru the years. They had been bought from breeders...even had a baby.

So they gave up and ended getting one from the city pound. Said it would have been easier to adopted human baby than a puppy from a rescue.


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## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

not all rescues are like that, unfortunately they are out there but if you are committed to saving a dog, look around and find a rescue who will work with you. Clearly that rescue had some issues as your brother sounds like an excellent pet owner. It's a shame those rescues are out there because they give the rest a bad name ... =(


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

Perhaps I'm projecting my own attitudes on the situation.
I can't really imagine a situation in which I would give up a dog to a rescue except that he/she had bitten someone and posed a danger to my family.

I assume most of you would feel the same.

My kids are expensive and sometimes they cause trouble, but I haven't given them up for adoption. (When she was three, my daughter thought I was serious about trading them for a dog if they didn't stop fighting in the back seat, but I digress...)

As for the economic argument, I know things are tough out there, but dog food isn't _that_ expensive. 
(If I were operating intake at a rescue and someone said "We love this dog but we can't afford to keep her" I'd call their bluff and give them a 20-pound bag of dog food.)

In my statement above, I'm using "neglect" in a very broad sense. Just because a dog hasn't been starved and left outdoors 24/7, doesn't mean it hasn't been neglected. The kind of owners who give up pets this way probably haven't socialized the animal properly. And while it's no fault of the animal, it can become the problem of the next owner.
But we won't have that problem with the _Chi-Neuf, the Dog Everyone Loves _(TM).

FWIW, it did take less time to have a baby. Wait, there's an idea...

Allen


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## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

haha you (and the rest of us) think like that b/c you are a responsible pet owner, unfortunately many good dogs go to bad owners and that's why they need a second chance through rescue! Seems crazy to think people can abandon a part of their family but they do it every day for crazy reasons, I mean look at those lists, I mean really??!!! Crazy stuff!


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## Ardeagold (Feb 26, 2007)

> FWIW, it did take less time to have a baby. Wait, there's an idea...


Oh Lordy.......take my word for it.......get the dog. :lol: Your kids haven't reached the teen years yet, but when they do, you'll understand. Boy oh boy, WILL you understand! 

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Jackson'sMom (Oct 13, 2007)

Ardeagold said:


> Oh Lordy.......take my word for it.......get the dog. :lol: Your kids haven't reached the teen years yet, but when they do, you'll understand. Boy oh boy, WILL you understand!
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol:



Oh, boy, you've got that right! My daughter is 14-1/2. I took her shopping for school clothes last night, rang up a $200 charge, she was a happy camper. She gets up this morning, and all I got was rolling of the eyes and arguments. Teenagers!! Can we say "mood swings"? 

Stick with dogs -- at least their temperaments are fairly stable.


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

Let me say one more thing. 

I'm not trying to make this into a referendum on rescues, or breeders or whatever. I genuinely appreciate all the support and advice and I really admire your concern for your own dogs and dogs in general. 

But I just want a dog.

I think I'm pretty typical in that regard, and the trouble I'm having speaks to the larger issues in the dog world. 

I like the idea of organic vegetables. But as much as I'd like to, I won't drive cross town, and I won't grow them myself. But I will pay 50 cents extra for organic.

I'm finding there's no equivalent in the dog world. 

If I said, I'd like to get a puppy in two weeks or even a month and I'm willing to spend say $600. Where do I go? 

A rescue dog is going to take much more time and effort than that. 

A breeder dog will cost twice as much or more and there's still likely to be a wait. 

A pound dog is likely to be a crap shoot.

As I said before, that's why people buy dogs in pet stores. 
I won't.

But most people aren't quite as patient as me. 

allen

Here's a an artist rendering of the Chi-Neuf, 50% Chihuaua, 50% Newfoundland, 100% Dog!! 

We'll be taking orders on a strict order of deposits received. Cash only. Small, unmarked bills.


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

Jackson'sMom said:


> Stick with dogs -- at least their temperaments are fairly stable.



Why Dogs Are Better Than Kids 



It doesn't take 45 minutes to get a dog ready to go outside in the winter.

Dogs cannot lie.

Dogs never resist nap time.

You don't need to get an extra phone line for a dog.

Dogs don't pester you about getting a kid.

Dogs don't care if the peas have been touched by the mashed potatoes.

Average cost of sending a dog to school: $52, Your kid: $103,000.

Dogs are housebroken by the time they are 12 weeks old.

Your dog is not embarrassed if you sing in public.

If your dog is a bad seed, your genes cannot be blamed.

Dogs don't do drugs.

And if there are unplanned offspring, you can sell 'em.​


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## mylissyk (Feb 25, 2007)

Most dogs (96%) had not received any obedience training. 


That statement in the research article is the crux. If people would take the time to train their dog, even if it's just going through a Petsmart class if nothing else, I bet half of those dogs that are turned in to shelters would not be.

As far as calling someones bluff on "can't afford to keep him", people are in fact losing their homes to foreclosure, and jobs to the economy, so when they are faced with being forcibly ejected out of their home and have no income, then yes they can't afford to keep the dog.

Having said that though, like you I'd find a way. But, that does give rescues and shelters more wonderful, well behaved dogs to offer for adoption.


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## moverking (Feb 26, 2007)

Oh and it's a *Landseer* Chi-newf, right AD?????? Probably could ask a bit more, even.

Avincent, if you are actually saying you want a dog in 2 weeks with cash to spend....better mean it if addressing this forum, lol. Not too long ago the group collectively got a senior Golden from South Florida to British Columbia in ~3 days by hand-offs up the east coast.....


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## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

I guess to me, you are making a 10-15 year commitment to a new family member. If it takes 6 months to find the perfect dog by being on a reputable breeders waiting list or 6 months of filling out applications at rescues until the perfect dog comes up then that's what it takes. The 'I want it and I want it now' attitude has a lot to do with the continuation of mills and abandoned dogs.
To me patience is being willing to wait until the perfect opportunity comes along. Yes rescues take time, but if they didn't there would be no way to ensure dogs go to better homes than from which they came. Most rescues are entirely volunteer based. Which means they are doing home visits, application reviews and fostering all in between their 9-5 life.
I just don't understand putting a time frame on it. The bigger picture being 7 million dogs put down every year in shelters is hopefully enough to make some people realize that contributing to the pet overpopulation through pet stores and BYBs is really detrimental. 
You (not you but just general you) could get a puppy this week from a nice couple who bred their 'sweet perfect' pups and advertised them in the newspaper for $500 and realize a year later that from poor breeding (b/c their sweet pups were never proven in the show ring or never had health clearances) that your pup needs bi-lateral hip replacements (happened to my parents, had both hips replaced on a BYB pup by the age of 2).
Or you could apply to some rescues and after a few months you see a pup on their site that you fall in love with, pay a $200 adoption fee and get the bonus of learning what the foster mom knows. Maybe they will have hip problems too, but you have saved a life.
The difference is, by buying from the BYBs you encourage their continued breeding of unproven pups where as the BYB sees no money from your rescue. I guess that's why I would wait for the rescue

Obviously you have done your research and are looking at getting a pup from a reputable breeder and will probably have great success, I'm just speaking to the rescue/BYB issue

=)


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

I zeroed in on that 96% no obedience training. 

I consider that a level of neglect.

To play devil's advocate: I think most people are more willing to say, "I'm moving" or "My son's allergic" than say "This dog bit my sister."
I think that "Oh, I lost my job" is just this year's spin.

And I really mean it--if the pet owner is out of a job or been foreclosed upon, I think most shelters and rescues would find it much cheaper and easier to distribute dog food coupons than take in another dog to place.

It reminds me of the debate about building better schools or more prisons, but I digress.

allen


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## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

It would be cheaper and easier but when people want to dump their dogs, they do it. Nothing the shelter can do, they have to take them, if not people just dump them on the street and they have to take them as a stray a week later after they've contracted diseases that are expensive to treat
We would like to think people would want to use the coupons too, but many people see dogs as disposable and when their life gets complicated they get rid of the dog to simplify.
And a lot of people dumping the dogs don't care enough to make up the lies to cover the dogs biting or other issue. And biting could be play biting related to that lack of training.
Seems like an impossible problem huh? Crazy ... glad all of us here care about keeping our pups no matter our situation!


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

> I just don't understand putting a time frame on it.


FWIW, I've pretty much figured out that it's unrealistic to get a dog this summer. We'll probably get on breeder's list, write a check big enough to buy a plasma screen TV, and wait until next spring. 

And it'll all be worth it. (At least until the first time it poops on the floor...)

But I'm Mr. Delayed Gratification. I waited for almost five years to have a luthier build me a guitar, and more than two to get one repaired. 

But other people_ will _put a time frame on it, because they put a time frame (and a price) on everything else. And until there's the "50 cent organic" alternative in the dog world, Amy, I fear that you and your rescue colleagues (not to mention vets) will be busier than you need to be because of the puppy mills and BYB's who fill this need. 

Allen


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## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

I tell ya, guitar things are above my head but my father is a huge collector and has recently been learning to build his own. He has given me a martin backpacker and a smaller regular guitar to try and learn so I can actually play the handmade one that is for me hanging in his office, I need to get on that! Haha, there are HUGE temp controlled boxes that arrive every few months with crazy fancy guitars ... I walk by and wave to my 'trust fund' haha

Sounds like you are in a really frustrating situation ... I think maybe it varies regionally b/c the rescue I work with (out of KC) is pretty quick to act on applications and my last foster was adopted 2 weeks after we got her in to a family who had applied a month before. I wish there was a way to even it all out!


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## Faith's mommy (Feb 26, 2007)

avincent52 said:


> Perhaps I'm projecting my own attitudes on the situation.
> I can't really imagine a situation in which I would give up a dog to a rescue except that he/she had bitten someone and posed a danger to my family.


if your dog is a danger to humans, it should be put down, not given to a rescue where it may get released to a different family to bite their children




avincent52 said:


> As for the economic argument, I know things are tough out there, but dog food isn't _that_ expensive.
> (If I were operating intake at a rescue and someone said "We love this dog but we can't afford to keep her" I'd call their bluff and give them a 20-pound bag of dog food.)


people who are getting foreclosed on have bigger worries than if they can afford a 20lb bag of dog food. they're worried about finding a place for their family to live, and 99% of the time, landlords don't want pets. so, they have to give Fido up to rescue. even though, he's been well cared for and trained properly up to that point, he's now sitting in a shelter waiting on a new home.


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## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

avincent - got your PM, you have one back =)


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

> if your dog is a danger to humans, it should be put down, not given to a rescue where it may get released to a different family to bite their children


Good point. Okay, there's no foreseeable circumstance under which I'd give up my Theoretical Dog to a rescue. 

If things are really that bad out there, I'm going to forget about the Golden and buy a couple of Landseer Chi-Neuf Attack Dogs (TM), some canned food, and shotgun shells.


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## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

haha what? you can't see these sweet faced Golden's going after hooligans after your canned food??? Mine would lick them to death, so much for a gaurd dog!


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## SylviaB (Jul 5, 2008)

Hi Allen,
Just wanted to let you know that it's very possible to "luck out" on getting a rescue dog in a short amount of time. Our local Animal Adoption Center (runs strictly on donations here in Jackson Hole) knew that we were thinking about getting a golden (our two had died within 6 months of each other about a year and a half ago). The Center visits surrounding towns that have kill shelters and try to bring dogs to their facility that seem to be good candidates for adoption. We had fostered a golden mix (all their dogs are taken home at night by volunteers) one night that just didn't seem to bond well with my husband....she was actually adopted by one of my co-workers a few days later. We were left a message on June 27th(we were out of town for the weekend) about a golden pup they had just picked up.....and if we were to interested let them know. The director is my neighbor so she filled me in on Sunday about the dog-mainly that he was very mellow (around 10 months old) since we really had been thinking about an older golden. I emailed my husband at work and told him I was going to check him out, but if he was bouncing off the walls, I probably wouldn't bring him home. Well, of course, he was this very mellow, large golden pup that came home with me! Sent my husband another e-mail and told him that he reminded me a lot of one of our other goldens...he wrote back "sucker"....and promptly fell in love with him too when he got home! So, July 1st he came home with us and it's been almost a month and he's just a sweetheart! Granted, he did have a good background(crate and potty trained too)....a family with 4 kids and two other goldens were surrendering him the day the Center was at the shelter. From his shot records I could tell that he was a Xmas puppy. We re-named him Tundra (he never responded to his other name) and actually "Slug" would fit him as well because getting waked up 6 in the mornings for a walk is just not his idea of a good time. But since he's weighing in at 80 lbs at almost one year of age (the vet said he just doesn't need to gain any more weight) walks are in his future forever. He would probably have been the perfect fit for your family (and no, you can't have him!LOL).

And to whoever had posted about being turned down because of kid's allergies, our application did ask about allergies and were there any reasons you would ever return a dog - I put none for that! Our first dog was a Westie who was about 3 when we had our first child. Our son seemed to be kind of allergic to something when he was born (our dog slept with us, kids never did) and his pediatrician asked if we had a dog and I said yes. The dr said well, you might have to get rid of the dog....I just looked at him and said the dog was here first, the kid would have to adjust. And hey, the kid did!LOL Don't really think it was the dog...probably just Florida!

Guess I wrote a book.....LOL 

Sylvia


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## AmyinAr (Feb 26, 2008)

avincent - I sent your original PM on to my dad ... I'm off but email me at [email protected] and I'll get you in touch!


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## avincent52 (Jul 23, 2008)

Sylvia
Congrats on the new addition.
Can I ask why a family with four kids and two other goldens was surrendering Tundra?
That's the part that makes no sense. 
My local rescue won't even take my donation, much less give me a dog.
I was the one with the "allergy" thing. If I had to do it again, I'd lie. But I shouldn't have to. 
This looking for a dog is becoming a second career. Maybe I'll go back to my first one before they come foreclose on my house and we're all living in the same cardboard box with the chicken.
If anyone has any specific suggestions, I'm happy to hear them. But I think I've said what I have to say on the general issue.

Remember, get your Chi-Neuf deposits in early....they're going fast. Only $5,000. In advance. ADC* registered. 
There's one boy (top), and one girl (bottom) left from the first litter.
*(American Dogological Council)


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## SylviaB (Jul 5, 2008)

Allen,
Hopefully they figured out that he wasn't getting the attention he deserved or maybe that one extra dog was too much trouble. They also were considering giving up one of their adult goldens, but the one of their kids was really crying about that so they just gave up Tundra. As others have pointed out there are other golden retriever rescue groups out there. I had been looking at ones in Colorado and Utah. My husband said he'd have a hard going to one of those and not bringing them all home! 

Sylvia


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## Debles (Sep 6, 2007)

That is not true about all rescue dogs.

Many of our dogs are from decent families/people who lost their home or due to illness/allergy had to give up their dog. Even if it is a stupid reason from our point of view, that is the people who are stupid, not the dog!

I just did an assessment on a beautiful healthy 10 month old golden who was much loved by the husband and son, the mother had bad allergies and wasn't willing to try to work with allergy meds etc in order to keep the dog. He will make some other family a wonderful companion. And our rescue has many like that.

There are abused and neglected dogs, obviously, in rescue but many of the "other" kind also.
Check out our website in my sig.


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## Lucky's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, I haven't gone through the thread but I do know you want a dog/pup...rescue or breeder ...whatever the decision I wish you luck and hope it happens soon.


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## hgatesy (Feb 14, 2007)

I'm a craigslist addict and came across these cute little buggers after reading this thread...

http://cnj.craigslist.org/pet/768581978.html


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## Old Gold Mum2001 (Feb 25, 2007)

moverking said:


> Why Dogs Are Better Than Kids ​
> 
> 
> It doesn't take 45 minutes to get a dog ready to go outside in the winter.​
> ...


 
ROFLMAO  that was great!!!


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