# Improving recall: with other dogs around



## Me&Ruby (Aug 20, 2007)

Ruby's 4 months and 1 week now. We got her microchipped recently and let her off the leash since, in our local park.

She usually stays around and follows our general direction and is GREAT in recall- only if there's no other living moving creature! We even hide behind trees and she'll come running as soon as she has sight of us or hears us - she gets a treat and MUCH fuss when she does.

We leave her 30ft leash to trail behind "just in case", and hell!, haven't we needed that. We know that she likes playing with other dogs - that's good but even when the owner's packing up-puts the dog on leash to go home, she'll go after them! No amount of cohercing, toys or treats, pretending to run away has worked (we even take her out on an empty stomach at meal times and offer her big bowl-she can see it...other dogs come instead:doh.

Not helped when some people give her fuss-of course she's a puppy, and she has a soft spot for men! This morning some footballers came out from the changing room and gave her fuss before entering the pitch. I thought what's the worst that could happen-going after them? No, she almost got in the changing room!! (imagine what *I'*d do if she'd managed to go in .
Doesn't help when she doesn't have a 'favourite' treat or toy - she's done with any new toy very soon. She likes playing tug but not bothered when other dogs are around of course. ALSO! our puppy classes are suspended indefinitely because of foot-and-mouth disease in our county!! HELP!!!!

Most owners let dogs off in our park (even those with bad recall!-they go back _eventually_). Right now I try to 'stick around' those with good recall knowing that when theirs comes back she'll come back! I know we can't settle for this, and I'm not looking for a 'quick fix' - given her age, I know it's a long road. Got a couple of DVDs (it's not practicable to buy from US) and used their methods. I wonder what works if she enjoys other doggies SO much she won't even let them go home!!??

I even wonder, does she not feel attached enough to us??

(PS: she's always been quite independent but easy-to-train AT HOME, no mouthing/jumping from week 9-10, can walk with loose leash) SORRY FOR LONG POST...


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## Me&Ruby (Aug 20, 2007)

*ooooppps*

sorry for duplicate threads - don't know how that happened or how to retract one!!


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## AquaClaraCanines (Mar 5, 2006)

Instead of letting the long line trail (which could be VERY dangerous for other dogs, people, and Ruby herself) have you held it and practices turning the other way, calling her, then giving her a tug so she'll come running after you? After she does, then set her free and let her play with another dog as a reward.


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## Faith's mommy (Feb 26, 2007)

is she food motivated? 

my suggestion to try - get a whistle or a noisemaker that's very distinctive (i have one that sounds like a duck quack) and small enough that it's easily carried & concealed.

one time a day for a week - make the noise. when she comes over to investigate, give her the "come" command as she comes toward you. have the bestest treat in the world ready - a piece of chicken, or a piece of hotdog - something she normally would not get.

remember, no treat unless she comes close enough for you to take her collar in your hand, and hold her collar while she eats the treat. then release her to go play again - praise like crazy "good come!"

again, do this once a day _only_ - it's special after all - and do it at different times and in different rooms. by the end of the week, you should be able to get her to come running to you.

now, bring it outside and slowly build up the distraction level. the first time you do it outside, do it at a random point on your walk, the next day as you approach the house after your walk, the next day as you are leaving the house, etc, etc.

i would do this for a good week, week and a half before you try it at the dog park.

i learned this as a way to teach an emergency come, but i think it works well in early training too.

lots of folks have problems with it because you never let off the food treat and they feel that the food should go away. however, i think the come command is so important that i don't see any problem with them knowing there is a great reward for obeying that noise.

clearly, you need to also keep reinforcing the come command without the noise - about twice a day, randomly call her to you for kisses and hugs.

and, i believe that you should never, ever, use the command and then scold them - coming to you should ALWAYS be a happy thing, no matter what they are doing and how annoyed you might be.

good luck with her, and remember - all this hard work will fly out the window for a few months while she's a teenager


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## Me&Ruby (Aug 20, 2007)

Thanks so far.

We trained her holding the long leash for a few weeks (it's only after she got microchipped that we let it off). We found holding the leash to be as dangerous if not more as leaving it because it'd be raised so tripping the others more easily (it's not happened yet as we watch closely every time we're around dogs and people)- we had to reel her in EVERY time she was among other dogs. A reason we let her go was because if she really goes after dogs, the leash will choke her and she'll still go! (it's 30ft - we can't get longer ones here and she'd stretch longer ones anyway). We treat/fuss every time but she still needs reeling back the next time.

We may try the whistle esp. if she'll go off a longer way, and we haven't seen anybody else use it in the park.

She's only like this with other dogs. She's somehow figured that birds and squirrels are not worth it.


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## Me&Ruby (Aug 20, 2007)

To add, she's very food-motivated for every other command BUT this one!

If I would note a hierarchy of 'pleasure' things for her when OUTSIDE, it's:
other dogs
other people
exploring by herself
rolling on grass/mud
food

But IN the house, it's FOOD, FOOD, FOOD!!

I rank this 'come' command as THE most important (at least for now), and it's THIS one she's really bad in!!


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## Me&Ruby (Aug 20, 2007)

OK so have just been back from a walk and sure enough (she was hungry, I had cheese-a new treat she likes-tested it just before we went out), as the others went off, so did she.
Unfortunately the park's not big (these days some parts used for sport), if 'quite' secure, so we've crossed paths with others who'd move on to other directions: it'd be nice to even reel her back AND release her each time to play again, but releasing her now means leaving with the others! so 'come' does mean end of social play on some occasions. We do practice it earlier, before the others arrive, GREAT recall-until they arrive...
BUT I've received advice from an owner: since she's so poor at it now, we should ONLY treat 'come' (and no other commands) for at least one week! I've also gone back a step...delay dinner and make her come for handfuls; with her bowl a few feet from me call her to come and if she comes to _me_ she gets the bowl. Anything else??? (Can't help thinking if I try this in the park, even with bowl, she won't come as that's what's been happening.)
I'm hoping that sending her to the dog-sitter (that we'll use the first time soon) will help, because she has her own dog (who's not too bothered w/ Ruby). Right now the park is the only place she socialises with other dogs so she goes crazy over it!


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## Goldndust (Jul 30, 2005)

You improve on recalls by being able to inforce them at all times, if you know your dog is not going to recall don't give a command you cannot inforce.

For many dogs using a prop would work to help inforce a recall in a place such as a dog park, a frisbee kept in your back pocket that folds easily is a good one if he/she likes them. Actually anything will work that your dog loves, but I would not use food in a dog park for this at all.

Once your dog came in for the recall, then I would praise as well, release the dog and have a game of frisbee, then in a bit call in and leash up and time to go home. The key is to not use the toy in a way to where he would associate it with coming in for it, and leashing up and going home. Of course, all needs to be trained for beforehand for this. The whole idea out there is to teach your dog that coming to "You" means more fun then those other dogs are for it at the time.


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## Me&Ruby (Aug 20, 2007)

Thanks.
It's been very good today - mentioned it in the other thread. So glad we went out this morning (in heavy rain so only one other dog after several practices), and I gave half her breakfast there as 'treats' (walked out at 8am-she normally eats at 7.30am). Managed to call her back twice while in pursuit of another Golden, both times she got her kibbles and I let her return on the "go play" command. Even came back from chasing a cyclist!
Tried again at two different patches near here (no cars passing at lunch).
I'll try again later in the park (good chance there'll be many more dogs!!) again at her meal time - I'm capitalising on her responsiveness today.
'Come' is the only command I treat for this week, and I'm looking for a toy that'll really 'turn her on' (so far she's done with all her toys very quickly).


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## bwoz (Jul 12, 2007)

I can share what we learned in class ....
We are supposed to have a command that is other than "come". Something like NOW! whatever, and use that command in a tone that you would use if your dog was about to be in danger and only when you are positive the pup is coming to you. Then reward for AT LEAST thirty seconds with whatever your pup is crazy about, food, belly rubs, etc. If you use food, you're supposed to use a really good treat like real chicken, beef or whatever the dog doesn't get all the time. And feed it really slow so that it lasts the thirty seconds at least. And praise verbally the whole time too. Do it three times a day for a few weeks at first and then practice like every other command if your dog is getting it. It was thought up by the owner of the place I go to after she met with Sea World trainers and learned how they train their animals. Hey if it works for Shamu! :


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## Me&Ruby (Aug 20, 2007)

Thanks - good idea.
The slow-treating sounds logical and all.
In that case I think I'll just do it a couple more times later, because we've done many times today (but I do want to see whether it works now in the presence of more dogs). Earlier, apart from one time (because she found a trash cola can, I think she didn't come immediately thinking I might take it off her - I do sometimes need to take trash off her mouth when on leash), she came every time.
I also do it at home (though we have always done) but only when we're in different rooms (not many opportunities-it's not a big house and OH won't let her upstairs at all and she often follows me into another room).


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## bwoz (Jul 12, 2007)

sounds like you guys are off to a good start. everything takes time, and the important thing is you are working on it, so it will eventually work! good luck to you. Ruby is a cutie pie by the way.


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## boyd114 (Mar 7, 2007)

We put boyd on a harness and had two long leads attached together, when he was a pup and we would use it when there were distractions around then continuously call him back passed any distractions giving it a gentle tug and the come command!! 

We would get him to sit and unclip him once we reached the dog so he could play, we didnt let him play all the time so he also learnt to just say a quick hello then walk on!! he soon learnt that he could stay with us and see the dog once we reached it!!

It takes time but once they get it, its really worth it! it wont take her long loads of treats and praise all the time!!!

And some more pics of her growing up!!!


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## Me&Ruby (Aug 20, 2007)

Thanks again - some creative suggestions there.

I'd defnitely consider combining two long leads if she should regress later.

The treating for at least 30 secs has made a lot of sense now - I wonder if she forgets what she was doing before she came and got treats, as she doesn't go back immediately (when I say "go play"); when it's clear I don't have any more to give, she has to look for something else to do. Mind you it's not easy if she's eager AND HUNGRY to treat for 30 secs (I do have to give kibble by kibble) so sometimes I bring out the new tug toy too.

I ended up trying recall quite a few more than a 'couple of' times because I NEEDED to last night. A very 'close' call was when a schnaucer followed us into a passage that leads to a deadend (we went in there to pass time as the park was getting busy), then she saw him and followed him out! I was still in the passage, and she already on the clearing, more than 80ft away separated by a tennis court. I called SO loud, bending down, arms wide open- she wanted to chase him but hesitated and came. PHEW!!

I know we shouldn't call if uncertain they'd come back...but what if the alternative is they going off with an owner with several dogs?!? It's like that near time for home - no coming back when called when she was w/ those dogs, stopped calling, owner fussed her then waved her off pointing at me, I called, she came-PHEW AGAIN!!! When I saw the 5-month-old Samoyed (that she ALWAYS plays very wildly with) show up pulling his owner then not go back when called...yep, lets definitely call it a day!!!!


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