# Crate Training / Seperation Anxiety



## Neeko13 (Jul 10, 2010)

Your lil guy is a sweetie for sure!!!!! Ill try to tell you what we do for our Neeko, he's four mos. old...hopefully it can help you with the poor lil guy crying all the time....First of all, we put a blanket over the front of the cage, make it like a cage, and so he doesnt see what's going on around him, I brought home a towel from the breeder with Neeko's mom's scent on it, and placed that in his cage, we also give him two puppy nylabone's for chewing, and a blankie for him, if he wanted to lay on it...I was thinking of leaving the TV on, but I didnt have to do that...we used a partition to make the cage smaller also, just big enough for him to lay down, and he did great...we've since moved the partition twice, and now he has the full cage, he's four mos. old now, and 35 lbs. We leave the door open to his cage all day and night when we are home, and he goes in, grabs his bone, or blankie, brings it out, and takes it back in, gets him comfy with going in and out...Now he goes in when he wants to just rest, away from the chaos outside the cage...We call it his house, and everytime he went in, we praised him...and petted him while he was in there... Now in the morning, we say, let's go in your house, and he comes, and goes in, some mornings moreso than others...Now that he's four mos. we have a dog sitter come at lunch time, and she gives him a small kong, that I have frozen in the morning, it just has like 10 kibble in it with some peanut butter...just to pass the time....good luck, he will hopefully come to love his house....


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## FeatherRiverSam (Aug 7, 2009)

If this was my pup I'd definately be concerned. The symptoms you're describing, panting, drooling, barking what sounds like sweaty feet are all indicators of separation anxiety. He is young and this has to be an adjustment period for him leaving the litter but what you're discribing seems to be a bit more than the usual reaction. 

I'd probably start with the breeder and get their feed back. And more than likely my next move would be to a behaviorist to try and get this under control ASAP. My understanding is the longer this goes on the harder it's going to be to correct it.

I think you'll get some good feed back here but I would definately try to avoid the situations you're putting your pup in which result in the behavior you're describing here. 

I also agree with you...I'd never abandon him thinking he'll just get used to it...my feeling is by doing something like this his anxiety level is just going to increase each time he's put in this situation. As you said it's best to take very small steps allowing him to build his confidence levels. Make his crate a GREAT place to be with high value treats. Leave him with a frozen kong or something special to take up his time.

I'd also exercise him as much as possible prior to putting him in the crate. And I would reward him for "calm behavior".

You mentioned you have a camcorder and have used it to record his reactions when you're gone...one thing you might try is leaving a high value treat in the crate before leaving and record what happens. I'd only leave for 3 or 4 minutes. If he normally has a good appetite but in this situation doesn't touch the treat while you're gone it would indicate that he is under quite a bit of stress. 

Hopefully this will help a little...this is all just my opinion and as you know I'm not a trainer. I look forward to what others have to say.

Pete


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## Roushbabe (Feb 20, 2011)

So I watched 'Mastering Leadership w/Cesar Millan' and have gotten good results. I'm able to get him in the crate while I'm home (when he's tired) and walk away without him crying. I have a puppy kong but I can't seem to get him interested in it. I'm using his own kibble, carrots, cheerios and I think he gets frustrated too quickly. I would love to get him into that and use it as a reward for going into the crate. The other problem, when I use toys or his kibble to get him in.. he knows whats going to happen and grabs it and tries to run out. Maybe if I just frequently throw it in there and let him get out? I was also thinking of randomly putting food in there when he's not looking so he can find it later as a surprise. I want him to find the crate as a fun safe place and right now it's a scary dark place. :-(


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## mickeychick (Jul 19, 2012)

you have the right idea. You want to make the crate a positive experience for him. It sounds like he is scared in there. Do you put peanut butter in his Kong at all? It is great because it takes them a while to lick it all out and by the time they get it all eaten, they are tired. We also cover the crate with a blanket to make it more like a den. Does he have any toys in there to keep him busy? We always put a radio on quietly so she can her voices and she feels like someone is near. Don't EVER force him to go in by pushing him in. Don't EVER give in and let him out when he is whining/barking. He will learn that if he makes a fuss, he will be let out. JUST IGNORE HIM (as long as you are sure he doesn't have to pee or something). Good luck. Don't give up, it gets easier!


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## Roushbabe (Feb 20, 2011)

I have put peanut butter on the outside of the kong and put his kibble inside. He just doesn't seem to want to get into it. I put a couple of toys in his crate and also a blanket from the breeder. 

The crate upstairs in my bedroom is a kennel that already has a cover with slits, should I still cover it? I was so upset tonight.. I was going to put him to bed and he was crying outside his crate because he knew what was happening. I tried to play a game with him and throw his toy in there and leave the door open so he knew I wasn't tricking him and he could come out...he did it like 4 times and I praised him big time but then he stopped and cried again. I almost had to force him in there, I had to get him into the toy again and then stop him in his tracks trying to get out. I'm also not sure if its too small for him either (28"L x 20.5"W x 21.5"H)... He can't lay flay on his stomach with his legs straight out because it's not long enough, but he can lay on his side I think. 

The crate downstairs is a bigger metal crate (42''L x 28'' W x 30'' H) that I don't have a divider for so I really am hesitant to leave him all night in case he eliminates in one side and sleeps in the other. He hates this crate too.. I just put blankets all over the side and I have to 'trick' him to get him in there. 

My procedure in getting him in the crate.. Usually I either throw kibble inside and say 'go in crate' or throw a toy in there.. he will go in and then I will tap him when he gets close to the door and say no and wait until he relaxes.. usually he will sit.. then lay down.. (takes about 5-10 minutes). Once he lays down I shut the crate. He gets up right away and stares at me. Once I leave he use to cry.. I've now gotten him to be fine for about 30 minutes but he never goes in there on his own and he hates getting in there. The door is always open.

Like I said.. I want him to love the crate and think it's a home.. Do I really need to not have him by my bedside at night? I don't mind him crying but he now digs, bites, and drools when he is 'upset'. He's only been this 'upset' when we've left the house.. I just don't want to increase this behavior and I eventually have to leave the house. I'm taking the day off tomorrow to really work with him and the crate downstairs at least. Please help with more ideas! I really appreciate all the input so far.


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## Mayve (Aug 21, 2012)

Does he eventually settle in his crate if you leave him??? 
And no, I don't believe you have to have him in your room.


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## Roushbabe (Feb 20, 2011)

Now after looking at him maybe this crate upstairs is too small? What do you guys think from the picture. He doesn't cry during the night now (he can see me in my bed and the first night I have put my hand down in front of the cage when he started to yelp - was this wrong to do?) I'm so upset, I just want him to be comfortable... 










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## Mayve (Aug 21, 2012)

Breathe....In.....Out! He can sense your emotions. 

The crate looks like it might be a wee bit small, but honestly if he has enough room to stand up turn around and lay back down it is fine. 

I think playing crate games with him is a good idea. If he should fall asleep out of his crate tomorrow, pick him up and put him in. Don't shut the door at first, so he knows he can get out. We took the divider out of Sages big crate already and she is much happier, but she hasn't ever had an accident in it so we are confident she can handle the extra room. 

Sage wasn't thrilled with her crate right away either, she would sleep through the night in it, but didn't like to be crated during the day. We started from day one leaving for a short period of time and extended it over the next few weeks. She still will cry when we leave for work, but she quiets down real fast now...


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## Roushbabe (Feb 20, 2011)

Do you think starting things fresh by day 4 is going to be hard for him to adjust? He doesn't know how to be alone and I think having him in my bedroom at night is not helping since he still sees me. 

I would like some ideas for crate games.. Some I have thought about doing tomorrow:

- Play with him and his toys inside the crate for a few minutes and then just stop and don't close the door so he can come out. Repeat a few minutes later? 

- Try to train him to go in crate and give a treat once in and then walk away with the door open so he doesn't feel confine. (Say crate as a command?)

- Hide his kibble in there when he's not paying attention to make him search it out on his own. (Praise when he goes in the crate)

- Feed him in the crate (Door open so he doesn't get to anxious but stay in front so he can't leave)

- Whenever he sleeps to pick him up and just rest him in there and leave door open. (Thanks Mayve!)

I would like to give him some kind of treat that takes him awhile to eat (chew bone suggestions?) and get him to eat it in there but I don't want him to come out of the crate to eat it. If I shut the door he stops what hes doing and crys.. do I ignore? Do I just stand there with the door open to make sure he eats it in the crate? My end result would be for him to feel comfortable eating the treat with the door open or closed.


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## dezymond (May 3, 2012)

Be strong and ignore. Crate training took about a week for Maverick and it was a rough first 3 days. We keep his crate downstairs and I slept on the couch for 4 nights but it helped him. He had 2 bad nights after the initial 3 nights and I haven't heard a peep from him since June whenever he's in there.

I noticed you have a plastic crate. Maverick hated his and I had upgraded him to a wired crate. Ever since we switched he never whined or anything but he was adjusted by then to the idea of being "locked up". Maybe try a wire crate which allows your pup to see more and making him feel less confined? Worked for me at least.

Good luck! And don't feel bad, you're doing the right thing.


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## FeatherRiverSam (Aug 7, 2009)

One of the methods I just read about crate training was to continually throw a high value treat into the crate. Your first objective is to just get him into the crate on his own. Initially they go in the crate to get the treat head first and then back out. You continue to do this, not blocking their way out, until finally they'll go in and turn around facing you waiting for the next treat which of course you offer right away. They realize it's a lot easier to stay in the crate for their next treat rather than continually going in and out for it.

You might try putting the peanut butter inside the kong as it takes the dog a bit longer to get it out. Other treats to try maybe carrots or cut up apples or even dried chicken.

You might also try leaving a tee shirt you've worn or something else that has your scent on it inside the crate. It may not come back in one piece so something you don't mind giving up. You're just trying to make him feel more comfortable more at home.

Pete


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## ladyofherbs (Dec 30, 2012)

*Crate Dividers*

Several of you have mentioned crate dividers. Where do you get them? We are getting a puppy in the Spring ( not a golden) and have large sized crates.

Also any ideas on taking the new pup out to the yard without loosing her? We have 2 fenced acres and that is too much roaming for a new pup. Take her out on a long leash so she can wonder around and sniff for a good spot? Thanks


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## kjohnstone82 (Sep 24, 2012)

FeatherRiverSam said:


> You might also try leaving a tee shirt you've worn or something else that has your scent on it inside the crate. It may not come back in one piece so something you don't mind giving up. You're just trying to make him feel more comfortable more at home.Pete


Brilliant idea, as soon as I read that I remembered that when Jasper was a little pup most likely the same age he wasnt settling at night so I got an old jumper I happened to have worn put it down and like a shot he snuggled up with it and was out like a light! It was a hallelujah moment!!


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## mickeychick (Jul 19, 2012)

If the crate is too big (I think you mentioned the downstairs one was too big), you can put something in the back of it. WE just put a large plastic Rubbermaid bin in the back of Liberty's crate when she was small. 

Poor little guy. It sounds like he really hates the crate. Is there a small room or area of your house you could baby gate off for a while instead of using the crate? 

I also agree with the person that said he can pick up on your emotions. Try not to get too upset. You may be getting him worked up too. I know, easier said than done. 

It will get easier! I promise!


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## HolDaisy (Jan 10, 2012)

Have just replied to your pm regarding the crate training 



ladyofherbs said:


> Also any ideas on taking the new pup out to the yard without loosing her? We have 2 fenced acres and that is too much roaming for a new pup. Take her out on a long leash so she can wonder around and sniff for a good spot? Thanks


Yep, at the moment our pup is going outside on his leash and then straight back in when he's done so he knows it's not playtime


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## Roushbabe (Feb 20, 2011)

Thank you everyone for your ideas!! I'm going to put one of my shirts in the crate tonight. Today is going very well and he has been going in and out of the crate downstairs. I left the door open all day and gave him treats... also taught him how to sit in there too.. he was really happy about that when I gave him something different than kibble. Then I took him to petsmart to tire him out as he rode in the cart and I got some new treats and toys for him. When we got back he had lunch and passed right out.. He was dead weight almost lol. I picked him up and put him in the crate and left the door open. He's been in there for an hour already. I've heard him got up and move around and fell right asleep! I know these are good signs. I appreciate all your thoughts and advice!! I know I need to keep my emotions aside. I was such a mess last night after he cried at me before going in the crate. I have to keep my head up high and keep at it! I'll keep you all posted!

Thank you!!


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## dezymond (May 3, 2012)

ladyofherbs said:


> Several of you have mentioned crate dividers. Where do you get them? We are getting a puppy in the Spring ( not a golden) and have large sized crates.
> 
> Also any ideas on taking the new pup out to the yard without loosing her? We have 2 fenced acres and that is too much roaming for a new pup. Take her out on a long leash so she can wonder around and sniff for a good spot? Thanks


Crate dividers usually come with the new crate. However, I might have 2 of them lying around. PM and maybe I can ship it to ya.:wavey:


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## kjohnstone82 (Sep 24, 2012)

Let us know how tonight goes, positive thoughts coming your way!


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## mddolson (Jul 10, 2012)

A couple of suggestions, that worked for us.
Our crate is in our bedroom, at the foot of our bed.
We have a large dog pillow, with an old towel wrapped around it(easy to wash), in Bella's crate. 
Leave the crate door open (when it's not being used). Our Bella now heads for her crate & the pillow when she wants a nap. 
My wife routinely put's our Bella in her crate, & leaves to go to the gym, or shopping during the day. When she returns, she lets her out & outside for toilet duties. 
At 9 months we now leave the crate open all night. At bed time she goes into the crate without prompting. Bella stays in until the alarm goes off & we get up in the morning. I take her outside mornings & evening since my wife has her during the day. 
We'll start leaving the crate open & leaving the house for brief periods soon.
We expect to remove the crate at about a year.
The pillow (in her crate now) will continue to be her bed, when the crate is retired.
we still use the crate when we visit our kids& grand child.

Mike D (Bella's dad)


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## FeatherRiverSam (Aug 7, 2009)

How did it go the other day? It seems to me your biggest challenge is going to be leaving him in the crate during the periods you're gone. I think the over night crating in your bedroom with you there won't pose that much of a problem.

I was thinking maybe during the day when you can't be there rather than putting him in the crate you're trying to get him to trust in and feel comfortable in you could put him somewhere else...maybe a safe bathroom gated off of the kitchen again gated off. Using the gates as opposed to closing the doors seems like it would feel less closed in. I'd put his crate bed & something of yours in whatever room you feel is best.

Then when you are home you can continue with the crate training all on a posisitive note.

Pete


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

You've gotten a ton of good advice so for, but here's mine.

First, I can tell you're incredibly anxious about this. So can he. Breathe slowly and keep your tone mid level, quiet, and calm. Don't make any sounds that are even remotely high pitched and don't "comfort" him. Your attitude about everything needs to be "good dog, no big deal."

Second, prep the space itself to be more comfortable. Trap an old towel or blanket on the crate floor. Roll up old towels to make bumpers around the four sides. Cover the crate with a towel or sheet. We used to put at least one of the towels in the bed with us for a night before it rotated onto crate duty so the crate would smell more like us. Make one special toy the "crate toy" and put it in with him every time. A kong is good, since it needs to be something he can't rip apart and eat or choke on, since he'll have it unsupervised.

Third, play low key games for a few minutes several times a day in and around the crate. During these acclimation sessions, never do anything that makes him show severe anxiety. A little nervousness is OK, but if he freaks out, you need to try something lower key. Toss little bits of high value treats in and let him retrieve them and come right out. Leave the door open for the first several sessions until he's totally cool with going in and out. Then, only close the door and open it right away, just to acclimate him to the feeling of the door closing without any anxiety. Reward generously the whole time and, when in doubt, do something lower key (like more open-door sessions) rather than pushing it. Teach him that rewarding, low key things happen in and around the crate.

Fourth, if possible, spend time with him next to you in the crate. Comet was very nervous about the crate at first, so I would wait until he was ready to nap or falling asleep on his feet, and I'd take him over to the crate and leave the door open but block him in with my body. I'd read a book and give him a treat each time he paused in trying to get past me out of the crate. Eventually, he'd settle down and sleep, and I'd nap or read next to him. Incidentally, these are some of my favorite memories of Comet's puppyhood. Me, dozing off on the ground with my head and chest in front of the crate opening and Comet pushed as close as possible to that opening so he can almost touch me as he sleeps.

Fifth, when you need to crate and leave him, do it with no ceremony. Prepare the Kong (we like to freeze peanut butter in the middle, since it takes forever to get it out), place him in there, shut the door, drop the sheet, and walk away. No "you'll be OK" or "I love you," and sure as heck no high pitched voice or nervous breathing and body language from you. "Good dog; no big deal." Then leave him. When you return, don't open the crate until you've had 30 seconds of silence from him. Stay around the corner out of sight until he settles, and once he gives you a good 30 seconds, walk into the room and open the crate door, again with no ceremony and no soothing other than "good dog; no big deal" in a midrange, quiet voice. Some people say you only need 10 seconds of quiet or so, but I like to really make sure the dog has settled himself before I'll open the door. You never want him to make any connection between freaking out and being let out. The first few times at least, you will feel like a terrible person as he cries and you're waiting for him to stop. Be patient and be strong.

Hope that helps!


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## Roushbabe (Feb 20, 2011)

So yesterday went very well. I'm excited that I don't have school or work to due until Tuesday so I will have this whole weekend to continue to train him with the crate with positive reinforcement and vibes. 

Yesterday I put him in the crate several times when I caught him sleeping on the tile, usually the first and second time he would get up within seconds, walk out and lay again on the tile. On the third try he would stay in there and actually sleep (10-20 minutes) and not get out. 

I also did this type of crate training for about 20 minutes twice yesterday in both cages (upstairs and downstairs) Shaping your dog to love his crate - Clicker Training Tutorial - YouTube (Thanks Zuca's Mom!!) When he would come out of the crate on his own and I would not reward him. He would sit outside of the crate and look at me for direction so I would say 'crate' and point in and be patient. Towards the end when he came out I didn't say anything and maybe in two minutes on his own he walked in the crate and sat! I was so ecstatic - I gave him two treats lol! The only problem that I'm running into is when I ask him to come out he is confused and still sits in the crate (I'm trying to repeat him going into the crate and out of the crate on my command - not his)

The only problem I have still is he doesn't seem to get 'go in crate' unless I put my hand with the treat inside the crate and he has to follow it. I'm hoping in time that he will catch the word 'crate' and walk right in and sit. I am saying 'good boy' as I hand him a treat and after reading your post 'tippykayak' it might be a little high pitched. I will have to remember to be calm and collective even though I might be so happy to see him do the right thing. 

Other things I should note and would like a 'yes that's a good idea' or 'no I wouldn't suggest doing that' :

I put his water bowl in there to make him go in as much as possible when he's thirsty. Should I reward him with just a simple 'good boy' or a treat when I see him doing this each time? ( In the future I would take out the water bowl when I actually do leave)

I had towels on the bottom of the crate and he doesn't seem to like it. He loves laying on the tile in my house instead of the carpet. I took the towel out and put just a toy or two and when I put him in there while he's sleeping I would have a better outcome of him staying in there quicker. Should I still try to make it comfortable with a bed? I bought one the other day for the crate but I have it outside for now so he can lay on it in the TV room with us to get use to it - is this a good idea or will it confuse him?

What Keisel can do so far... 
- Sleep throughout the night without crying in my bedroom in a closed crate. No whining and no treats involved unless to get him in the crate. 
- Sleeps in the cage downstairs during the day (after I carry him in there) and stays for awhile (10-20 minutes) and then walks out (I leave the cage door open for this) 
- Can sit in the crate with the door open and me about 15 feet away and stay for about 20 seconds. 
- Can sit in the crate with the door closed and me in a different room for a couple of minutes!

This weekend I'm hoping to achieve going outside for a few minutes (shutting the front door) without any issues, and possible going to the store and back. I hope he gets use to the crate because starting Tuesday I will HAVE to leave him during the day for 3 hours. I will be recording the session when I leave too. I'm going to upload the other video of him in the crate last week onto Youtube to share with all of you so you can see his progress.


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## FeatherRiverSam (Aug 7, 2009)

You are dedicated! Sounds like you've come a long way...congratulations.

Pete


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## amy22 (May 11, 2008)

Sounds like he's making progress!! Please keep us informed and good luck!!!


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## Roushbabe (Feb 20, 2011)

Here is a video of me training Keisel today with the crate. I feel like we haven't made progress from yesterday which is okay (Maybe I'm not pushing him past his limits enough?). I'm also not sure if I'm doing the right things. I wish he would go in the crate when I say 'crate'. Any input or advice greatly appreciated!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bplXvgpaZRU

On a side note - just signed up for a 6 weeks of puppy classes starting Monday!!


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## Roushbabe (Feb 20, 2011)

Okay so I decided to upload the video of Keisel when he had his 'anxiety' attack in his other plastic crate (last week). This was his second time in the crate (which was much worse than the first) and we were only gone for 50 minutes and the last 15 were him somewhat sleeping from being so exhausted. His paws were wet and he was panting when we arrived. I didn't know about giving him a treat or anything before we left or conditioning him into the crate - I wish I did!! Now i know better and plan on having Keisel get better at us leaving!! 

The reason why I'm posting this is I would like to know what you all think about his anxiety and how bad it really is/was. I've never had a puppy before where I actually remember crate training so I don't really know what kind of stress a puppy can handle or not. *VIEWERS BEWARE THIS VIDEO IS VERY HEARTBREAKING FOR ANYONE TO WATCH *(I can only watch part of it - my BF edited the video for me for you guys.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85LL3lGmO1c

I will have another video uploaded tomorrow. We plan on training him and walking in and out of the house. We think he might be ready for it. Cross your fingers!!


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## Roushbabe (Feb 20, 2011)

UPDATE:

So I wanted to let everyone know that Keisel is doing MUCH better on his own during the day. I have picked him up almost every time he fell asleep on Saturday and put him in the crate with the door opened.. then on Sunday same thing but I shut the door and let him out when I needed too. If he got anxious in the crate while I was there (which was a few), I would walk up to the crate from about 10-15ft away and I can calm his anxiety by just staring at him with good posture and calm assertive energy and saying no. I would wait for him to sit and then lay down - walk away and he would be asleep in seconds. It was amazing. 

Today I left and went out of the house for an hour - recorded him of course and he whined ONLY for about 5 minutes and then fell asleep - no digging, barking, drooling!! I was so relieved to watch the video and know that he isn't as anxious as he was last week. I literally trained him with the cage for 48 hours and got him to go in the cage on his on by just saying 'cage'. It's amazing! 

My only question is on Wednesday I have to go to class and I'll be gone for 3 hours.. do you think he could handle it if he handled 1 hr without building him up? Or should I do 1.5 hours Monday, 2hrs on Tuesday and then 3hrs on Wednesday?


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## tippykayak (Oct 27, 2008)

Glad to hear things are going so well. Personally, I'd build as slowly as I could. Jumping to a much longer time could cause some backsliding. Then again, it might be fine.


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## Jacey's boy (Feb 26, 2009)

Glad to hear he's doing better! Is he still using both crates? I noticed in the video where you were training him it was a wired crate and the one where he was having trouble was the more inclosed crates. I'd probably build up to the longer times.


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## Roushbabe (Feb 20, 2011)

Jacey's boy said:


> Glad to hear he's doing better! Is he still using both crates? I noticed in the video where you were training him it was a wired crate and the one where he was having trouble was the more inclosed crates. I'd probably build up to the longer times.


The plastic crate is only being used for traveling in the car - not for long extended times anymore because of two reasons. I think he gets too hot in it and it might be too closed off for him. He's fine in it too when we drive because he can see me the whole time and I leave my hand in front of the cage. He falls asleep usually in this plastic crate that way.

I'm still using two wire crates tho - one with a divider upstairs for at night which is no problem at all and then the other without a divider downstairs for when I leave during the day. (which is what you see me training with) I decided to buy a new crate to start off fresh and with no negative feelings towards it for him. Started training right away when I got it.


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